from DBURRILL@TELEHUB.com Tue May 5 12:10:49 1998 Subject: RE: Thanks Patrick! -----Original Message-----From: Coffey, Patrick W [SMTP:Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com]Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 9:50 AM Subject: Tom Morgans web site is {SMTP:rodsmiths@imt.net} from flyrod@artistree.com Tue May 5 12:36:46 1998 KAA15714 Subject: Re: Fitting Ferrules Jon,If it's the Super Z, I just fitted one last week. They say it's .002oversized but it seemed like more. You have to be very patient, diligentand careful because of this. I carefully sanded down to first wear mark(this being the first line from the male's solid end). Try folding thatsandpaper into the thinnest strip possible when you get near the wearmark. I'll admit my first wear mark did get a little sanded. Also Isanded just a little with a 400 grit, then switched to a 600, thancleaned with steel wool and check fit, start process again. I know 400grit sounds dangerous but it would have taken me all day if I didn't useit to speed things up, just be very careful and check often. I wasbeginning to worry that I was tapering it but by using a very thin stripof sandpaper gave me better control and kept me from over sanding thearea that did fit. Finally did get a nice tight fit down to first wearmark that and it makes a hell of a popping noise but again it took along time. Just keep at it. Best Regards,Chris Wohlford Jon Lintvet wrote: I am having a dickens of a time final fitting the ferrule from REC onthis para. The male doesn't seem to work it's way down any furtherthan the first 3/16". Are you supposed to sand the wear marks orabove the wear marks? Arg! Jon Lintvet12B College CircleIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277- 9781www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue May 5 13:12:32 1998 Subject: RE:Rod Tube for Heddon #13 RO>I have a Heddon Model #13 flyrod. I amRO>looking for a Heddon aluminum tube for it.RO>It needs to be 38"-40" long, for flyrod.RO>The rod is 9"6', 3 pc. Thanks. JP JP, I've got one that 39-1/2" long x 1-5/8" dia. with the usually bumps andbangs, but I would only swap it for a shorter Heddon AL or fiber tube -since I am in need of several for 8'6" or 9' rods. Can do? Else I had planned on cutting it down to fit. Don BurnsFlyfisher@cmix.com or Canerods@aol.com from rmoon@ida.net Tue May 5 13:30:11 1998 Subject: Re: FFF Conclave Dear A.J. I have been following with some interest the thread on parabolicaction. I made one a long time ago, and still think that it was one ofthe most congenial rods to fish with I ever made. What I really wanted to talk to you about is the FFF Conclave in IdahoFalls the first week of August. I remember fondly the session we had inEugene, and I'd like to ask if you think that you might be able to doit again. The conclave will have a full day Bamboo Symposium, and thefirst session like that in Eugene will be a panel discussion of theMystique of the Bamboo Rod. As you may remember it seems to be theconsensus that there is an attitude of veneration aboout bamboo rods,and as we did before I'd like to have a panel forum to discuss it andother questions and observations. The Symposium will be August 5th(Wednesday). I plan to have a professional rod builder (Press Powell)an expert on restoration, a non-builder, but bamboo user, a beginningbuilder and not least an advanced builder of rods. Yourself. If you think that you might be able to make it, please e-mail me and Iwill send you some additional information. It is hard to think that ithas been 8 years since we were in Eugene, Thanks Ralph from cmj@post11.tele.dk Tue May 5 13:42:25 1998 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA21428 Subject: Sv: bamboo milling machine NAA14381 Patrick wrote Just received this email from Tom Morgan regarding his hand mill I sawdemonstrated at the conference at Merritt. PatrickPlease mail Tom Morgans address to the list. There must be others thanme,interested in the hand mill, regards Carsten from jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us Tue May 5 13:46:11 1998 with ESMTP id 335 for ;Tue, 5 May 1998 13:49:46 -0500 Subject: Re: FFF Conclave A.J. Please accept Ralph's invitation! I am sure many on the recent members ofthe listserve would like to meet you. I think your contributions would bevery valuable to the people who attend. I hope you will be there. Jim Kubichek Ralph W Moon wrote: Dear A.J. and not least an advanced builder of rods. Yourself. from rmoon@ida.net Tue May 5 13:56:33 1998 Subject: Re: Parabolics Hank I totally agree with your assessment of parabolic. I made one years agoand it was one of the nicest rods to fish with I ever made. I am very sorry I never got back to you on your inquiry about the BambooRod Symposium. I have ,between some health problems and running aroundlike a chicken with its head cut off , been lagging very far behind. Ihope that you are still planning to come out West this summer and thatyour plans include the conclave. I would be very pleased if you couldconsider helping at the Symposium You may already have heard that at the FFF International Conclave in Rod Symposium. The Symposium will be a full day affair on August 5th(Wednesday). The format of the Symposium will be divided into a morningand afternoon session. The Morning Session will be a panel forumdiscussion of the Mystique of the Bamboo Rod. We will have a smallpanel who will each explain his reason for being a Bamboo Aficionado.After that the audience will be invited to ask question and makecomments. The afternoon session will be a loosely structured series ofinformational departments each devoted to some aspect of rod making,rod exhibits, history, and a special department devoted to opportunity of talking with experts on virtually all phases of canerods. I would be pleased if you will accept my invitation to be one of theexperts in the afternoon session. I regret to say that the FFF has nobudget for either fees or expenses of the participants, but you areinvited to bring with you some of your work to show or sell. If youtake orders for rods or materials there is no problem if the delivery isnot in Idaho. If you deliver in Idaho you will need to collect IdahoSales Tax. We will have forms to this purpose. The variousdepartments for which I still need assistance are: Rod evaluation and identificationSplitting and straightening row stripsPlaningHeat TreatingAdhesivesBinding MachinesFinishing If you can help, please let me know at once, and I will send furtherinformation at that time. It will be necessary for you bring anysamples, materials, or equipment that you may deed. About all I canfurnish will be an identification sign and a table, although I will doeverything I can to assist you. Your responsibility as a participantwill be to serve as an expert in a department and to talk to, answerquestion for and explain techniques to the attendees.. I really hope that you can come and that you can help. I think it willbe a very well attended and informative symposium for all of us. Sincerely Ralph W. Moon777 So River Rd.St. Anthony, Idaho 83445208-624- 3206rmoon@ida.net from cmj@post11.tele.dk Tue May 5 14:06:41 1998 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA32274 Subject: Sv: Tom Morgans Homepage OAA17223 Thanks Patrick! -----Original Message-----From: Coffey, Patrick W [SMTP:Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com]Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 9:50 AM Subject: Tom Morgans web site is {SMTP:rodsmiths@imt.net} Patrick This URL does not work for me. Can You help? regards Carsten from Fallcreek9@aol.com Tue May 5 14:10:47 1998 Subject: Re: Heat Gun In a message dated 98-05-05 00:43:37 EDT, I wrote: John - Try Grangers 1-800-323-0620.... John - Make that "Grainger".RT from Finanplanr@aol.com Tue May 5 14:28:30 1998 beforged)) Subject: Re: Playing the dip... Dear Art, Cute...thanks for making my day! Regards,Stu from Finanplanr@aol.com Tue May 5 14:42:16 1998 Subject: Re: What have I found? Cross rod Brett, Thanks for the tip... Regards,Stu from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Tue May 5 14:43:06 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: bamboo milling machine OAA19660 on page 25 of the second issue of the Bamboo Fly Rod is a web site fortom Morgan and his phone number; 406-282-7110, his email address is{rodsmiths@imt.net} the web page address is http:www.troutrods.com , Idid a cusury look and didn't find his mill there but when I talked tohim at Merritt he showed me the brochure he sends out on request withvery good color photographs. ----------From: Carsten Jorgensen - DaniaFlyrods[SMTP:cmj@post11.tele.dk] Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 8:11 AM Subject: Sv: bamboo milling machine Patrick wrote Just received this email from Tom Morgan regarding his hand mill Isawdemonstrated at the conference at Merritt. PatrickPlease mail Tom Morgans address to the list. There must be others thanme, interested in the hand mill, regards Carsten from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Tue May 5 15:10:07 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.1); Tue,5May 1998 16:11:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Silk Thread Just wanted to let everyone know I will have some of this silk at the Northeast get together for everyone to look at. Lots of other toys also! Pearsalls Gossamer Silk is available in a wide range of colours and canbe ordered through Alec Jackson, their US distributor. He has starteddistribution recently and can be reached at 206-488-9806.The Gossamer is about 2/0 in size.A.J.thramer Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue May 5 15:10:58 1998 Subject: Re: A.J.'s 3wt RO>Dr. Steven A. Weiss wrote:RO>>RO>> -----Original Message-----RO>> From: A.J.Thramer RO>> Date: Monday, May 04, 1998 12:01 PMRO>> Subject: A.J.'s 3wtRO>>RO>> >HiAll,RO>> > My 3wt tapers ARE a specialist taper. As 3wt rods have ALWAYSbeen....RO>>RO>> AJ,RO>> I admit that I am fairly new to casting bamboo, but am a proficientcasterRO>> I have a late model Orvis 7' 3-wt Battenkill that casts both 2-wt and4-wtRO>> lines better than a 3-wt (all DT). It also casts a triangle taper 3-4bettRO>> than the DT3.RO>> Is this mostly my inexperience with bamboo or are there possiblyotherRO>> variables in rod design working here?RO>> Steve WeissRO>Hi Dr Steve,RO> Orvis is selling a 4wt rod with 3 wt on the shaft. Their detachmentRO> from cane(not building their own blanks anymore) and emphasis onRO>graphite has contaminated their cane ratings as many otherRO>manufacturers.RO>A.J.Thramer The old Wes Jordan Battenkill/99's all seem to cast a modern DT plasticline of one size under their original ratings. This is per the Orvisrcane rod shop. My own 7' Orvis 99 - 6 wt - works very well with a WF5 too. Don Burns from thramer@presys.com Tue May 5 15:21:35 1998 0000 Subject: Orvis Rods flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: RO>Dr. Steven A. Weiss wrote:RO>>RO>> -----Original Message-----RO>> From: A.J.Thramer RO>> Date: Monday, May 04, 1998 12:01 PMRO>> Subject: A.J.'s 3wtRO>>RO>> >HiAll,RO>> > My 3wt tapers ARE a specialist taper. As 3wt rods have ALWAYSbeen....RO>>RO>> AJ,RO>> I admit that I am fairly new to casting bamboo, but am a proficientcasterRO>> I have a late model Orvis 7' 3-wt Battenkill that casts both 2-wtand4-wtRO>> lines better than a 3-wt (all DT). It also casts a triangle taper 3-4bettRO>> than the DT3.RO>> Is this mostly my inexperience with bamboo or are there possiblyotherRO>> variables in rod design working here?RO>> Steve WeissRO>Hi Dr Steve,RO> Orvis is selling a 4wt rod with 3 wt on the shaft. Their detachmentRO> from cane(not building their own blanks anymore) and emphasis onRO>graphite has contaminated their cane ratings as many otherRO>manufacturers.RO>A.J.Thramer The old Wes Jordan Battenkill/99's all seem to cast a modern DT plasticline of one size under their original ratings. This is per the Orvisrcane rod shop. My own 7' Orvis 99 - 6 wt - works very well with a WF5 too. Don BurnsHi don,I have spent many pleasant streamside hours with a few older Orvisrods and they all cast one weight under with my preffered DT line. Stilldon't know where the current rage for WF lines came from as you give upso much line control.I recieved the thread last week, I thought we were talking about rodwrapping thread not backing for my fly line :) The previous was intendedin good humored jest but it does make me wonder about Mr. Maisey. A.J.Thramer from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue May 5 16:41:15 1998 Subject: RE:Orvis Rods RO>Hi don,RO> I have spent many pleasant streamside hours with a few older OrvisRO>rods and they all cast one weight under with my preffered DT line.StillRO>don't know where the current rage for WF lines came from as you giveupRO>so much line control.RO> I recieved the thread last week, I thought we were talking about rodRO>wrapping thread not backing for my fly line :) The previous wasintendedRO>in good humored jest but it does make me wonder about Mr. Maisey.RO>A.J.Thramer A.J., I have a complete set of flylines from 3 - 8 wt. in both WF and DT's totest cast rods, I use DT's for most of my fishing. BUT on one localstream both would work about the same - many times there's only a leaderand less than 5' of line out past the tiptop. A few of my heavierwt. lines are, dare I say, Cortland Fairplay WF lines ( from Walmart)because I don't fish with them and just have them to test heavy "clubs". Mr. Thramer, sir, that dual purpose rod wrapping thread/reel backingwill cost you more! Or was that a Belvoirdale Phoenix jasper silk 0wt. fly line that I sent you by mistake. So you like my "3/0" Belvoirdale silk thread? $#$#^#$#%%^&* How do youthink I feel - I've got about 10 more spools of that stuff. I believe I included a blk/white jasper spool also? The brain fades outsometimes. I wasn't sure if I equaled the price of the rod sack withjust one spool of that wonderful Belvoirdale jasper reel backing, Iincluded the 2nd spool so you can dye the white to other colors (orangeor green) for your future line of ocean boat rods. LAter, Don B. from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue May 5 17:24:28 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA028756908; Tue, 5 May 1998 15:21:48 -0700 Subject: Big Thread Come on guys, what's wrong with fat thread? Half a dozen turns and your done with the wrap, and you don't have to dress the guide feet. That big stuff will go right over an 1/8" step with no problems. Better yet, if you unwind it you'll have the equivalent of three rolls of 1/0 thread, a bargain indeed. Mac from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue May 5 17:50:16 1998 Subject: RE:Big Thread RO>Come on guys, what's wrong with fat thread? Half a dozen turns andyourRO>done with the wrap, and you don't have to dress the guide feet. ThatbigRO>stuff will go right over an 1/8" step with no problems. Better yet, ifyouRO>unwind it you'll have the equivalent of three rolls of 1/0 thread, aRO>bargain indeed. Maybe that's how you get the 100 yds of thread that you were charged forwhen you bought it? Don Burns from CampblRods@aol.com Tue May 5 19:58:54 1998 Subject: Re: FW: bamboo milling machine I am a little bit confused on my choice of cane milling equiptment. I wasquite sure I would be purchasing a beveler from Bellinger based on theDickerson beveler. For me this seemed like the best set up to cut down onlabor hours on my rods. But now I'm hearing all about this Morgan handmilland I'm wondering if this isn't the way to go. I'm slightly skeptical abouthow much time this is really going to save me, and for about a thousanddollars more I would have a real beveler. It sure looks and sounds nicethough. Any help or advise would be greatly appreciated.Steven N. CampbellCampbell Rod Co.Brewer,MaineCampblRods@aol.com from WDHCJL@aol.com Tue May 5 20:20:12 1998 Subject: Re: Ah....Springtime Just a minor correction, the Park Services does not prohibit fishing forBrooktrout just keeping them.doug hall"an avid Smokey Mountain Flyfisherman" from rmoon@ida.net Tue May 5 20:58:37 1998 Subject: FFF Conclave I apologize to the list for the messages I sent out regardinginvitations to participate in the FFF Conclave. I meant to send themdirect and I got screwed up. I realize that this is not an appropriateuse of the rodlist and ask that you bear with a poor old man with "oldtimers disease" But I can't resist a parting shot. We would love tosee any and all of you who might make it and if you want to help let meknow off the list. rmoon@ida.net from thramer@presys.com Tue May 5 20:58:52 1998 0000 Subject: Steven/Milling machine The choice may be easier than you think as Al Bellinger told me he hasstopped production of his milling machine. Another choice would be oneof the Whitehead beveler(might even find one used). It milled theinitial taper to .020 over final dimension and cut down on the amount ofhand planing tremendously. I used mine for 4-5 yrs and built 125-150rods with it before I built my owm beveler. Don't think I could havewithout it.A.J.Thramer from deuchman@hereintown.net Tue May 5 22:11:00 1998 23:11:28-0400 Subject: Hickory???? =_NextPart_000_01BD787B.222FA420" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD787B.222FA420 I have been lurking around here for quite some time, and finally have =the fortitude to try to make my first rod, however with a little twist. I have read about the use of woods other than bamboo in the making of a =rod, and am interested in perhaps trying to build my first attempt from =some hickory that I have lying around. Understanding that the hickory =would probably need to be a bit thicker than bamboo for this purpose, =what would a good starting point be to increase the size of the bamboo =sections to end up with a tolerable size for the hickory. I have Mr. =Cattannach's book, and would like to try to make the first rod in the =Tapers section (6' 2 pc. #3) from hickory. I was considering =multiplying the sections by 1.5 to get a figure for the splines in a =hickory rod. Suggestions? Comments? Rich Keller230 National HighwayLaVale, MD. 21502deuchman@hereintown.net ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD787B.222FA420 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD787B.222FA420-- from CampblRods@aol.com Tue May 5 22:28:13 1998 Subject: Re: Steven/Milling machine Is Whitehead still making bevelers? How would I get a hold of him? Ispokewith Al Bellinger a week ago, and he told me he would have more bevelersavailable in 5 months or so. When did you hear he had stopped? What isthereason either one of these bevelers couldn't be used to plane to finishedtapers? Are they just not accurate enough? The Bellinger machine issimilarin design to the Dickerson beveler and I believe he went from squaredstripsto finished tapers on his.Thanks for the help.Steve CampbellCampbell Rod Co.CampblRods@aol.com from Nodewrrior@aol.com Tue May 5 23:42:30 1998 Subject: Re: Got your phone call Chris, I got your phone call, I've had some lat gigs and thought I'd better not calltoo late. I'll call tomorrow PM. Rob from channer@hubwest.com Tue May 5 23:57:02 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AE1141300FE; Tue, 05 May 1998 22:58:57 MDT Subject: Re: In Search Of... At 10:16 PM 5/4/98 EDT, you wrote:John,Tony's talking $aust,not$us.Hank. Hank;I realized that about 2seconds after I hit the send button. My motto is"Never pass up a chance to make a fool of yourself", which I find very easyto live up to.John from channer@hubwest.com Tue May 5 23:57:15 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AE1B41400FE; Tue, 05 May 1998 22:59:07 MDT Subject: Re: Chicago Rodmakers At 12:26 AM 5/5/98 EDT, you wrote:Me too! Mark Mark; I must have missed something, what is this in reference to?John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Tue May 5 23:57:27 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AE2741500FE; Tue, 05 May 1998 22:59:19 MDT Subject: Re: Fitting Ferrules At 10:41 AM 5/5/98 -0800, you wrote:Jon,If it's the Super Z, I just fitted one last week. They say it's .002oversized but it seemed like more. You have to be very patient, diligentand careful because of this. I carefully sanded down to first wear mark(this being the first line from the male's solid end). Try folding thatsandpaper into the thinnest strip possible when you get near the wearmark. I'll admit my first wear mark did get a little sanded. Also Isanded just a little with a 400 grit, then switched to a 600, thancleaned with steel wool and check fit, start process again. I know 400grit sounds dangerous but it would have taken me all day if I didn't useit to speed things up, just be very careful and check often. I wasbeginning to worry that I was tapering it but by using a very thin stripof sandpaper gave me better control and kept me from over sanding thearea that did fit. Finally did get a nice tight fit down to first wearmark that and it makes a hell of a popping noise but again it took along time. Just keep at it. Best Regards,Chris Wohlford Jon Lintvet wrote: I am having a dickens of a time final fitting the ferrule from REC onthis para. The male doesn't seem to work it's way down any furtherthan the first 3/16". Are you supposed to sand the wear marks orabove the wear marks? Arg! Jon Lintvet12B College CircleIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277- 9781www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ Jon and Chris;IMHO the Super Swiss ferrules are well worth the few bucks extra theycost.They are much better made and aren't so far off in fit. They also seem tobe made from a better quality tubing. John Channer from flyrod@artistree.com Wed May 6 01:14:22 1998 XAA18302 Subject: Re: Fitting Ferrules John,Thanks for the info. Will go with the Super Swiss next time as I wassweatingbullets. Those Super Z's were too scary of an experience to repeat anytimesoon.Regards,Chris Wohlford john channer wrote: Jon and Chris;IMHO the Super Swiss ferrules are well worth the few bucks extra theycost.They are much better made and aren't so far off in fit. They also seem tobe made from a better quality tubing. John Channer from jcole10@juno.com Wed May 6 07:13:16 1998 08:11:40 EDT Subject: Re: Heat Gun Thanks for new phone number John Cole On Tue, 5 May 1998 15:07:19 EDT Fallcreek9 writes:In a message dated 98- 05-05 00:43:37 EDT, I wrote: John - Try Grangers 1-800-323-0620.... John - Make that "Grainger".RT _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from jcole10@juno.com Wed May 6 07:31:02 1998 08:29:27 EDT Subject: Re: Steven/Milling machine A.J.Like Steven, I have also been thinking about a milling machine. Have notheard about the Whitehead beveler. Tell us more. John Cole On Tue, 05 May 1998 19:03:40 -0700 "A.J.Thramer" writes:The choice may be easier than you think as Al Bellinger told me he hasstopped production of his milling machine. Another choice would be oneof the Whitehead beveler(might even find one used). It milled theinitial taper to .020 over final dimension and cut down on the amount ofhand planing tremendously. I used mine for 4-5 yrs and built 125-150rods with it before I built my owm beveler. Don't think I could havewithout it.A.J.Thramer _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from destinycon@mindspring.com Wed May 6 07:36:31 1998 Subject: Re: In Search Of... At 10:56 PM 5/5/98, you wrote:"Never pass up a chance to make a fool of yourself", which I find veryeasyto live up to.John John,These words have soared me straight to the heights I'm at today. Gary from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed May 6 07:53:13 1998 Wed, 6 May 1998 20:52:49 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: In Search Of... On Wed, 6 May 1998, Heidt wrote: At 10:56 PM 5/5/98, you wrote:"Never pass up a chance to make a fool of yourself", which I find veryeasyto live up to.John John,These words have soared me straight to the heights I'm at today. Gary That's one of the realy exciting things about email and listservs in particular. You're only a bee's di*k from public footisinismouthis, it's anart I practice often. It's sudden and all it takes is the press of a key and whoops. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from destinycon@mindspring.com Wed May 6 08:38:03 1998 Subject: Re: Hickory???? At 11:11 PM 5/5/98 -0400, you wrote:I have been lurking around here for quite some time, and finally have thefortitude to try to make my first rod, however with a little twist. I have read about the use of woods other than bamboo in the making of arod, and am interested in perhaps trying to build my first attempt fromsome hickory that I have lying around. Understanding that the hickorywould probably need to be a bit thicker than bamboo for this purpose, whatwould a good starting point be to increase the size of the bamboo sectionsto end up with a tolerable size for the hickory. I have Mr. Cattannach'sbook, and would like to try to make the first rod in the Tapers section (6'2 pc. #3) from hickory. I was considering multiplying the sections by 1.5to get a figure for the splines in a hickory rod. Suggestions? Comments? Rich Keller230 National HighwayLaVale, MD. 21502deuchman@hereintown.net Rich,I have not seen a split and glued hickory rod yet, at least hex. All Ihave seen were of solid construction or glued in a pattern thatcomplements the grain of the wood. They are very large, very heavy andextremely "loggy" (not to mention out dated). This is a whole differentworld of rod building. I don't think you will be pleased with the outcomeof your labor but if you want to pursue this course your best source ofinformation might be H. P. Wells book "Fly-Rods And Fly-Tackle" -1885-. Hehas a couple of chapters devoted to woods and wooden rods. It's not easyto find but I have seen a copy, just this week, on one of the book finderlists. IMHO you would be best served by going tonkin. Gary H. from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed May 6 08:39:17 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: FW: bamboo milling machine I SAW a demonstration of the Morgan mill and it not only puts and exact60 degree angle on the strips but it takes it to what ever taper you setin a matter of minutes. It took Per Brandon about 10 minutes to go fromsplit strip to ready for glue up. I was always one that felt that muchcash out lay for a beveler ($2000 - $4000) was ridiculous and unless onewas going to mass produce it was a waste of money. Well now I'm eithergoing to order a Morgan mill or make one myself. Last year I saw theBellinger mill at the Oregon gathering and the Morgan mill is bothcheaper and easier to operate. The glued up blank that Per had, had 61and 1/2 degree angles and even on close inspection you could not see ANYglue lines. I feel with Morgans mill I could start with split andstraightened strips and go to a glued up blank in one evening afterwork. Martin Jensen and I drooled over the Morgan mill and thought thatmaybe we could make our own. ----------From: CampblRods[SMTP:CampblRods@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 5:57 PM Subject: Re: FW: bamboo milling machine I am a little bit confused on my choice of cane milling equiptment. Iwasquite sure I would be purchasing a beveler from Bellinger based on theDickerson beveler. For me this seemed like the best set up to cutdown onlabor hours on my rods. But now I'm hearing all about this Morganhand milland I'm wondering if this isn't the way to go. I'm slightly skepticalabouthow much time this is really going to save me, and for about athousanddollars more I would have a real beveler. It sure looks and soundsnicethough. Any help or advise would be greatly appreciated.Steven N. CampbellCampbell Rod Co.Brewer,MaineCampblRods@aol.com from destinycon@mindspring.com Wed May 6 08:47:52 1998 Subject: Re: FFF Conclave At 07:54 PM 5/5/98 -0600, you wrote:I apologize to the list for the messages I sent out regardinginvitations to participate in the FFF Conclave. I meant to send themdirect and I got screwed up. I realize that this is not an appropriateuse of the rodlist and ask that you bear with a poor old man with "oldtimers disease" But I can't resist a parting shot. We would love tosee any and all of you who might make it and if you want to help let meknow off the list. rmoon@ida.net Alzheimers?Thats OK, I keeping a list of all of us who have passed the Z. Yes, Idohave to write it down or else I'll forg.......ah....Gary H. from r.schiller@worldnet.att.net Wed May 6 08:58:40 1998 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA8442 +0000 Subject: Re: Ah....Springtime -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Ah....Springtime Just a minor correction, the Park Services does not prohibit fishing forBrooktrout just keeping them.doug hall"an avid Smokey Mountain Flyfisherman"Doug: Good to see you on again. Fished the S. Holston last week. Had a good day with a couple of dozenbrowns and rainbows. The Clinch is too fast and high to fish yet. Thesulphur hatch has not appeared yet. It may never appear because of waterconditions but I will get a call from a guide if it does! Got a new wood lathe from Bonnie with all the goodies. Now I have fourlathes and no skill. I did make a fairly good ferrule after I found that Ihad shaped my tool incorrectly for cutting N/S. (Not on the wood lathe buton my Southbend) It is not as good as Bailey Woods but I will get better. While down in TN, last week, my wife and I drove up to the Cataloocheecampground. Have you been there? It looks like a grade A spot to fish. It isa tough ride of about 10 miles up a dirt road but no people and lots ofstreams. What is your opinion of the place? RegardsDick from cmj@post11.tele.dk Wed May 6 09:26:22 1998 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA27810 +0200 Subject: Sv: In Search Of... JAA31509 ----- That's one of the realy exciting things about email and listservs in particular. You're only a bee's di*k from public footisinismouthis, it's anartI practice often. It's sudden and all it takes is the press of a key and whoops. Tony Tony Excuse an ignorant foreigner, but what is a di*k ? I couldn't locate theword inmy DICtionary :-) regards, Carsten from fhar@world.std.com Wed May 6 09:52:56 1998 Subject: Re: Ah....Springtime I'm getting too manyof these messages - i tried to unsubscribe but I amnot doing something correct - ccould somebody put the syntax in the subject heading for me or i mightnever find the response - i live flyfishing but i use this email to dowork and my owkr (work ) is getting drowner (drowned) out by theflys(flyfishing) mailgroup - thanksfrank from thramer@presys.com Wed May 6 12:00:12 1998 0000 Subject: 4'4" Guide Spacing A bit of housecleaning today....The guide spacing for the 4'4" taper from a couple of months ago4" 1/08.25" 1/013.5" #120" #228" Strip GuideA.J.Thramer from thramer@presys.com Wed May 6 12:08:56 1998 0000 Subject: 6' 4wt Taper This is a Dx taper0-.0685-.08010-.09415-.10820-.12225- .13830-.15435- .17840-.20045-.21650-.22855-.24060-.26065- 72 - .260 A light fast easy to cast taper 2 7/8 oz and a 12/64 ferrule. I like aLeonard type for this rod A.J.Thramer I do remember meeting you at the Portland cast in. Beautiful paleGarrison style rods, a bit better tapers though! The event would be funto do again.A.J.thramer from saweiss@flash.net Wed May 6 13:26:31 1998 Subject: Re: FW: bamboo milling machine Increasing the angle to hide the glue line is an OLD woodworker's trick.The price you pay is a greater mass of glue inside the joint. In this case,substituting glue for bamboo. This will add to the variation in action dueto glue. A while back, Wayne C. reminded us to pay attention to detail,particularly at the end of each step. Garrison rejected this trick and eventhinned his glue to get closer approximation of the strips and betterpenetration of the glue.Just a beginner's opinion.Steve Weiss from Finanplanr@aol.com Wed May 6 13:29:54 1998 Subject: Re: Japan - part #3 Lovely...just lovely. If every day could only be like this...sigh... Stu from saweiss@flash.net Wed May 6 13:51:00 1998 Subject: Re: Fitting Ferrules Another little piece of information that a beginner needs.John, what's the difference between a Super Z and a Super Swiss?Steve Weiss from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed May 6 14:58:53 1998 Subject: Binder for Amateurs boundary="part0_894484694_boundary" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_894484694_boundary The attachment is a JPEG photo of a binder.It has always seemed to me that any binder I tried was a bit tricky to setupand adjust. I guess it's OK if you make a lot of rods and get the feel for thethings by using them all the time. Half the time I don't even bother, andbind Here is a binder that:Can be built with hardware store parts.Is easy to adjust and intuitive to use.Is portable.It consists of two 6" pulleys mounted on !/2" ID, 5/8" OD copper watertube. A5/8" retaining ring holds each in place. The copper tube is mounted to theplywood frame with pipe hanging straps. The drive pulley has a length of"V"belt contact cemented in it's groove, in effect a rubber tire. It also has ahandle mounted, so it can be cranked by the user.The binder pulley has a spool of thread, a thread tensioner, and a threadguide mounted on it's face. In front of the binder pulley, on it's shaft is a5/8" ID wire compression spring, with a washer on each end. This pushesthebinder pulley back into the drive pulley, creating the friction that allowsthe machine to work. The machine is clamped to your bench.In use, the rod section is fed through the middle of the binder pulley fromthe back. After attaching the thread, you slowly pull the section throughfromthe front with your left hand. You crank in one direction with your righthand direction for the second wrap. I thought I might need a brake on the drivewheel so that I could stop and change hand positions without losingtension,but there is enough drag built in that it was not necessary. >Fromrmoon@ida.net Wed May 6 15:08:37 1998 Subject: Re: Hickory???? Rich, As Gary pointed out, there is a world of difference between hard woodrods and bamboo. Attempting to transpose a bamboo taper to hard woodwill result in disaster. I recall an article in the Planing Form, and Idon't recall the author or when it appeared, that dealt with aninexpensive method of making wooden rods. I recommend that you look itup and read it. Well's book to is a good source. Most of the wood rodsof the 19th century were made of different kinds of wood in the samerod. Another source for background would be Schweibert's Trout. Ithink though that there is still a potential for this kind of rod.Greenheart is still being made in England and used primarily for stillwater fishing. I have cast a number of these rods and while they areheavy and very slow, they have a surprisingly pleasant action, and canbe capable of some long cast. Ralph from RVenneri@aol.com Wed May 6 15:10:52 1998 Subject: machine shop link About two weeks ago some one posted a link of an army machine shop link.Itwas an interesting link that I shared with freinds. Now some how I lostthelink could someone post it again .Thanks GuysBob VVenneri's Custom Components21 Chuck Hill RoadSaugerties N Y 12477914 246 5882 from thramer@presys.com Wed May 6 15:17:55 1998 Subject: Re: Fitting Ferrules DR. STEVEN A. WEISS wrote: Another little piece of information that a beginner needs.John, what's the difference between a Super Z and a Super Swiss?Steve WeissThe Super Z is the original Swiss type ferrule made by Fierabend andSoth Bend for a while. They are currently made by Cortland. Ipurcahased about a dozen sets a few years back and called the Cortlandtech rep to see if they made an error in shipping reject ferrules. Nosolution was offered so I sent them back. They MAY be better now. I bluemy ferrules and the solder wiped all over the ferrule made itimmpossible to blue them evenly. It won't be as much of a problem if youdon't blue.Super Swiss ferrules are made by Classic Sporting Enterprises and areof a much better quality. The ferrules you buy from Anglers Workshop aremade by CSE.A.J.Thramer from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed May 6 15:31:04 1998 Subject: A Challenge or a puzzle A fun challenge for one and all - but no prizes or rewards, I acquired to nicely made cane rods tips - reported to be 35" longreplacement tips for Heddon rods. BUT when they arrived they were found to be made with flamed cane andhave random nodes - the flaming is something that is not a feature ofHeddon rods. So do I send them back or put them to use? I decided to keep them - because I knew they would made a beginnings ofa nice rod. Something like what Mac McDowell is doing with his "sand aproduction rod" to a good taper - but in reverse. So here's the challenge: I have the tips - find me a rod taper. Help mefind a complete rod taper that will have the same tip taper as these twotips. Use one or the other OD's or average them since they aren't aperfect pair. Use the full section length or shorten them for use with ashort 3 piece rod maybe. Don't get carried away, I'm just seeing if anyone enjoys a good puzzle. Tip #1 0" - 0.073"5" - 0.082"10" - 0.100"15" - 0.116"20" - 0.133"25" - 0.147"30" - 0.160"35" - 0.170" Tip #2 0" - 0.073"5" - 0.090"10" - 0.105"15" - 0.118"20" - 0.135"25" - 0.147"30" - 0.159"35" - 0.170" I' think I've already found a close taper match in Jerry's archive oftapers, but if there's others I'd be interested. I do intend to build acomplete rod from these tips to match one of the provided tapers. Please - keep the replies off list and if anyone is interested - I'llput out a list of tapers later. Puzzled in soggy California. Don BurnsFlyfisher@cmix.com or Canerods@aol.com from projeto@ipmet2.ipmet.unesp.br Wed May 6 15:36:22 1998 4.1/UCB5.64/4.03) Subject: Re: machine shop link Bob,are you talking about this link? http://www.atsc-army.org/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/tc/9-524/toc.htm Sergio RVenneri wrote: About two weeks ago some one posted a link of an army machine shoplink. Itwas an interesting link that I shared with freinds. Now some how I lostthelink could someone post it again .Thanks GuysBob VVenneri's Custom Components21 Chuck Hill RoadSaugerties N Y 12477914 246 5882 from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Wed May 6 15:41:24 1998 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Wed, 06 May 98 16:40:32 EDT Light Version 3.0.5 (16) Subject: Stress curves In graphing a taper for a 7wt, the stress factors move quickly up to 250K.My question is how much can cane handle, what is too high? The exactfigures for the first few stations are as follows (in thousands): 1"=61.7, thefigures at the 10 thru 20 inch stations too high and should I adjust thedimensions of this taper? Thanks in advance, Bob.Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581-3128 from RVenneri@aol.com Wed May 6 15:47:21 1998 Subject: Re: machine shop link In a message dated 5/6/98 4:37:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time,projeto@ipmet2.ipmet.unesp.br writes: Sergio,Thanks Thats the one. Great link to give to some one who has machs Butnobackgroundin shop training.Thanks.Bob V from projeto@ipmet2.ipmet.unesp.br Wed May 6 16:07:08 1998 4.1/UCB5.64/4.03) Subject: Re: machine shop link Bob,you're wellcome. It's really a very good source of info.Sergio RVenneri wrote: In a message dated 5/6/98 4:37:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time,projeto@ipmet2.ipmet.unesp.br writes: Sergio,Thanks Thats the one. Great link to give to some one who has machs Butnobackgroundin shop training.Thanks.Bob V from hall@Summa4.COM Wed May 6 16:53:27 1998 custsrv1.vitts.com(Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0- 49776U700L100S0)with SMTP id AAA16037 for ;Wed, 6 May 1998 17:53:24 -0400 199821:53:24 UT (8.8.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id RAA01276 for ;Wed, 6 summa4.summa4.com (8.8.5/8.7.1) with SMTP id RAA25260 for Subject: My first bamboo casting experience This past weekend, I had the opportunity to cast for the first time a(actually 3 different) bamboo fly rod. As a heavy graphite user for thelast 16 years, it was suggested I post this casting experience to youfolks. I hope you find it of interest. I arranged with a fellow rodmaker subscriber, to trout fish a smallriver here in New Hampshire. When I mentioned that I don't have anyfishable cane, he generously offered any rod of his, for my use at theriver. What a opportunity! Cane has always been an enigma to me, from thestandpoint of what are its advantages/disadvantages over graphite true.I have found shortcomings in graphite (for my fishing pleasures)including, 1. for short casts (most common here in NH), 2. the stiffnessoff the material, and percieved disadvantages of cane being 1. cost and2. durability 3. weight The first rod he let me fish with, was a 3/2 9ft Montague for 3weight.The line was not silk. He mentioned this was a custom Montague, havingintermediate windings (variated thread of ruby and black - sorry, forgotthe standard term here), heat treated, blued or grayed components. Allin excellent condition. A real pretty piece. What little energy requiredto cast! I found short casts ( from cbogart@shentel.net Wed May 6 18:43:17 1998 head.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA19330; Wed, 6 May199819:43:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Hickory???? RichYou may want to give Ken Reinard (the Ye Olde Colonial Angler of1770) acallat (717) 738-1815. He may give you insight into using some of the "moretraditional" materialsprior to the advent of split cane. He is located in Lititz PA. So you maytakea trip up to see him.BTW - you are invited to my BBQ if you want to come out and discuss your Chris On Tue, 5 May 1998 23:11:20 -0400, Richard E. Keller, Jr. wrote: I have been lurking around here for quite some time, and finally have thefortitude to try to make my first rod, however with a little twist. I have read about the use of woods other than bamboo in the making of arod,and am interested in perhaps trying to build my first attempt from some hickory that I havelyingaround. Understanding that the hickory would probably need to be a bit thicker than bamboo for thispurpose,what would a good starting point be to increase the size of the bamboo sections to end up with atolerablesize for the hickory. I have Mr. Cattannach's book, and would like to try to make the first rod in theTaperssection (6' 2 pc. #3) from hickory. I was considering multiplying the sections by 1.5 to get a figureforthe splines in a hickory rod. Suggestions? Comments? Rich Keller230 National HighwayLaVale, MD. 21502deuchman@hereintown.net from cbogart@shentel.net Wed May 6 18:45:07 1998 head.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA19708; Wed, 6 May199819:45:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Steven/Milling machine Steve Darryl is out of the beveler business. He has passed this on tosomeoneelse - I know George Maurer has some for sale - give him a call or email. Chris On Tue, 5 May 1998 23:21:19 EDT, CampblRods wrote: Is Whitehead still making bevelers? How would I get a hold of him? Ispokewith Al Bellinger a week ago, and he told me he would have more bevelersavailable in 5 months or so. When did you hear he had stopped? What isthereason either one of these bevelers couldn't be used to plane to finishedtapers? Are they just not accurate enough? The Bellinger machine issimilarin design to the Dickerson beveler and I believe he went from squaredstripsto finished tapers on his.Thanks for the help.Steve CampbellCampbell Rod Co.CampblRods@aol.com from rclarke@eou.edu Wed May 6 18:50:37 1998 Subject: Re: My first bamboo casting experience Nice post Dan. I love fishing my Heddon. I agree it is heavier, but easier to cast moreline when compared to my graphites. Nice job! Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Dan Hall Subject: My first bamboo casting experienceDate: Wednesday, May 06, 1998 2:53 PM This past weekend, I had the opportunity to cast for the first time a(actually 3 different) bamboo fly rod. As a heavy graphite user for thelast 16 years, it was suggested I post this casting experience to youfolks. I hope you find it of interest. I arranged with a fellow rodmaker subscriber, to trout fish a smallriver here in New Hampshire. When I mentioned that I don't have anyfishable cane, he generously offered any rod of his, for my use at theriver. What a opportunity! Cane has always been an enigma to me, from thestandpoint of what are its advantages/disadvantages over graphite true.I have found shortcomings in graphite (for my fishing pleasures)including, 1. for short casts (most common here in NH), 2. the stiffnessoff the material, and percieved disadvantages of cane being 1. cost and2. durability 3. weight The first rod he let me fish with, was a 3/2 9ft Montague for 3weight.The line was not silk. He mentioned this was a custom Montague, havingintermediate windings (variated thread of ruby and black - sorry, forgotthe standard term here), heat treated, blued or grayed components. Allin excellent condition. A real pretty piece. What little energy requiredto cast! I found short casts ( the tip only. The leader would straighten every time, without thetypical "flogging" required in graphite. Soon the dry was falling in thefoam right where I was looking. Did'nt really make longer cast than 30ftwith this rod. Used this rod most of the day, without ever tiring (noweight concerns).The second rod was a F.E. Thomas for 6 weight, just as pretty as thefirst. This rod was outfitted with a silk line. Boy does the silk lineshave texture. I noticed this line really floated high in the water, andappeared to have less of a diameter than 6 weight plastic. This rod wasvery smooth casting, with good reserve power. Got to cast this rod 35and shoot beyond this. I could feel the action work down to the grip asI lengthen the cast. It would roll cast and mend very nicely. Had toremind myself to cut down on the false casting, if I want to catchtrout.The last rod was completely different action (even with using thesame6 silk line from the Thomas). It was a 10ft Nichols rod, calcutta cane(boy is that cane lighly colored) with intermediate wraps. What abeatiful looking piece. The finish gave the ruby wraps "depth" againstthe light calcutta. It was a "wet fly" action. Quite a sag at the end ofthe 10 feet. What a slow action. Couldn't (and would'nt want too) get atight loop out of this if you tried. Take a valium and slow down. Actionright done to the grip, regardless of length of cast. Soooo littleenergy required to cast the line. To my suprise, the dry flies wouldlightly fall on the surface. Should of tried a streamer/wet. Foundmyself smiling every time I casted this rod, with its laid backrequirements for the caster. Boy could it roll cast.Went back to the car, and we quickly casted my 7'11" graphite orvis(slower graphite of 1983 vintage) with his silk line. I was quicklyreminded how much lighter this rod was, compared to the bamboo. Mypartner was surprised upon how slow the action was. Come to find out,the silk line was a 5 weight. When we put one the "matched" dt4, one hadto flog the hell out of it, to get the line out. It action stiffed rightup, we put the rod away. So what did I learn/still need to try? 1. Well bamboo has character!Graphite has a lack of individuality in casting, spiritless. 2. Shortcasts are easily done with bamboo. 3. bamboo is fluent 4. bamboo isnoticably heavier than graphite, but requires less effort to present thefly. So perhaps the total energy used might be less (?) 5. the jury isstill out on longer casts, but I'll wait to experiment with this, on myown rods (that durability thaaaang). I found myself wanting to cast therod more, than actually wet the line. Oh BTW, we didn't catch anything.This I still need to try (but alas, I'm always "catch challenged"regardless of rod material) fighting a fish on bamboo. My discussion of this bamboo experience would'nt be complete withoutchatting about my generous fishing partner. The ride to/back- from theriver was filled with talk regarding bamboo fly rod topics. Such ainteresting person, I did'nt even look closely at his copy of Keane'sbook, that he brought for the ride (or pay attention to the directionsto one of his favorite fishing holes;). Such a knowledgable person onthe subject, and a rare breed that enjoys listening (to my littlesmalltalk in this area) as well. A nice match to this bamboo experience. Regards,Dan from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed May 6 19:01:07 1998 Thu, 7 May 1998 08:00:59 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Sv: In Search Of... wugate.wustl.edu idTAA23587 Tony Excuse an ignorant foreigner, but what is a di*k ? I couldn't locate the word in my DICtionary :-) regards, Carsten :-))) /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from CampblRods@aol.com Wed May 6 19:05:18 1998 Subject: Re: Steven/Milling machine Do you know George Maurer's phone number or e-mail address? from channer@hubwest.com Wed May 6 19:10:50 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AC734500C4; Wed, 06 May 1998 18:12:35 MDT Subject: Re: Fitting Ferrules At 12:42 PM 5/6/98 -0600, you wrote:Another little piece of information that a beginner needs.John, what's the difference between a Super Z and a Super Swiss?Steve Weiss Steve;I have bought both from REC. The Super Z they sell seems to be made out ofcheaper, softer tubing and the fir is not as close as the Super Swiss,also, they are not as nicely made. They have a rather large, plain squarewelt. Bailey Woods at Classic Sporting Enterprises makes the Super Swissferrules and they are much nicer, better quality tubing, nicely steppedwelt and over all finish, and closer fit. They still need to be finalfitted, but do not require the effort. Price difference is around $10.00 ohn Channer from cbogart@shentel.net Wed May 6 19:11:00 1998 head.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id UAA24815; Wed, 6 May199820:10:55 -0400 Subject: Re: My first bamboo casting experience Reed Curry Strikes Again! On Wed, 06 May 1998 17:53:21 -0400, Dan Hall wrote: This past weekend, I had the opportunity to cast for the first time a(actually 3 different) bamboo fly rod. As a heavy graphite user for thelast 16 years, it was suggested I post this casting experience to youfolks. I hope you find it of interest. I arranged with a fellow rodmaker subscriber, to trout fish a smallriver here in New Hampshire. When I mentioned that I don't have anyfishable cane, he generously offered any rod of his, for my use at theriver. What a opportunity! Cane has always been an enigma to me, from thestandpoint of what are its advantages/disadvantages over graphite true.I have found shortcomings in graphite (for my fishing pleasures)including, 1. for short casts (most common here in NH), 2. the stiffnessoff the material, and percieved disadvantages of cane being 1. cost and2. durability 3. weight The first rod he let me fish with, was a 3/2 9ft Montague for 3weight.The line was not silk. He mentioned this was a custom Montague, havingintermediate windings (variated thread of ruby and black - sorry, forgotthe standard term here), heat treated, blued or grayed components. Allin excellent condition. A real pretty piece. What little energy requiredto cast! I found short casts (the tip only. The leader would straighten every time, without thetypical "flogging" required in graphite. Soon the dry was falling in thefoam right where I was looking. Did'nt really make longer cast than 30ftwith this rod. Used this rod most of the day, without ever tiring (noweight concerns).The second rod was a F.E. Thomas for 6 weight, just as pretty as thefirst. This rod was outfitted with a silk line. Boy does the silk lineshave texture. I noticed this line really floated high in the water, andappeared to have less of a diameter than 6 weight plastic. This rod wasvery smooth casting, with good reserve power. Got to cast this rod 35and shoot beyond this. I could feel the action work down to the grip asI lengthen the cast. It would roll cast and mend very nicely. Had toremind myself to cut down on the false casting, if I want to catchtrout.The last rod was completely different action (even with using thesame6 silk line from the Thomas). It was a 10ft Nichols rod, calcutta cane(boy is that cane lighly colored) with intermediate wraps. What abeatiful looking piece. The finish gave the ruby wraps "depth" againstthe light calcutta. It was a "wet fly" action. Quite a sag at the end ofthe 10 feet. What a slow action. Couldn't (and would'nt want too) get atight loop out of this if you tried. Take a valium and slow down. Actionright done to the grip, regardless of length of cast. Soooo littleenergy required to cast the line. To my suprise, the dry flies wouldlightly fall on the surface. Should of tried a streamer/wet. Foundmyself smiling every time I casted this rod, with its laid backrequirements for the caster. Boy could it roll cast.Went back to the car, and we quickly casted my 7'11" graphite orvis(slower graphite of 1983 vintage) with his silk line. I was quicklyreminded how much lighter this rod was, compared to the bamboo. Mypartner was surprised upon how slow the action was. Come to find out,the silk line was a 5 weight. When we put one the "matched" dt4, one hadto flog the hell out of it, to get the line out. It action stiffed rightup, we put the rod away. So what did I learn/still need to try? 1. Well bamboo has character!Graphite has a lack of individuality in casting, spiritless. 2. Shortcasts are easily done with bamboo. 3. bamboo is fluent 4. bamboo isnoticably heavier than graphite, but requires less effort to present thefly. So perhaps the total energy used might be less (?) 5. the jury isstill out on longer casts, but I'll wait to experiment with this, on myown rods (that durability thaaaang). I found myself wanting to cast therod more, than actually wet the line. Oh BTW, we didn't catch anything.This I still need to try (but alas, I'm always "catch challenged"regardless of rod material) fighting a fish on bamboo. My discussion of this bamboo experience would'nt be complete withoutchatting about my generous fishing partner. The ride to/back- from theriver was filled with talk regarding bamboo fly rod topics. Such ainteresting person, I did'nt even look closely at his copy of Keane'sbook, that he brought for the ride (or pay attention to the directionsto one of his favorite fishing holes;). Such a knowledgable person onthe subject, and a rare breed that enjoys listening (to my littlesmalltalk in this area) as well. A nice match to this bamboo experience. Regards,Dan from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed May 6 19:13:54 1998 Thu, 7 May 1998 08:13:03 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: My first bamboo casting experience 6 silk line from the Thomas). It was a 10ft Nichols rod, calcutta cane(boy is that cane lighly colored) with intermediate wraps. What abeatiful looking piece. The finish gave the ruby wraps "depth" againstthe light calcutta. It was a "wet fly" action. Quite a sag at the end ofthe 10 feet. What a slow action. Couldn't (and would'nt want too) get atight loop out of this if you tried. Take a valium and slow down. Actionright done to the grip, regardless of length of cast. Soooo littleenergy required to cast the line. To my suprise, the dry flies wouldlightly fall on the surface. Should of tried a streamer/wet. Foundmyself smiling every time I casted this rod, with its laid backrequirements for the caster. Boy could it roll cast. A bit of an extreme example but interesting re. dry fly fishing? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from CampblRods@aol.com Wed May 6 19:14:32 1998 Subject: Re: FW: bamboo milling machine Patrick, how does this hand mill shave down the cane so quickly? TenMinutes?I can see how it would take half as long since you are tapering both sidesatonce, but I don't understand how it is doing it so fast. If this is reallyso, I agree that a beveler isn't what i need. I would like to go up to about25 rods a year and it sounds like this mill is just the thing I need. Thanks,Steve CampbellCampbell Rod Co.CampblRods@aol.com from saweiss@flash.net Wed May 6 19:20:59 1998 Subject: Re: Custom Order For Silk Thread Chris,Haven't heard anything lately about the silk order. I repeat my interest.Do you have consensus on color & size?ThanksSteve Weiss from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed May 6 19:27:49 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.1);Wed, 6May 1998 20:29:37 -0400 Subject: Para Casting Experience... I just finished a Para 6wt. I went out and cast it with a 5wt Cortland 444 and I wasn't sure so I went and bought a Cortland SL 444 6wt. Still not sure. I don't know if it is the line or what but I have not gotten the hang of it. I am going out tomorrow to cast again. I must say the rod is heavy. Next one along these lines I am scallop building. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed May 6 19:27:50 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.1);Wed, 6May 1998 20:29:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Fitting Ferrules Does someone have a phone # for Baily Woods? Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from CALucker@aol.com Wed May 6 20:08:46 1998 Subject: Re: Custom Order For Silk Thread I apologize for keeping you in the dark. I am hopeful that you are the onlyone who has expressed interest that I have neglected from my bulk e-maillist.I am communicating off newsgroup to everyone. We have about 45 folks interested in a custom order. I have decided that AH Rice is the best company to go through, largelybecausethey are the only ones who will do it for us. AH Rice is the company thatnowowns Belding Corticelli and the old BC machinery. Nine years ago BC would have allowed me to select any color and anythreadsize. Today, we are limited to sizes A or 6/0. The any color part stillstands.The minimum order is five pounds of silk. The cost for five pounds put uponthree ounce spools is about $500 -- or about $20 per spool.That makes only 26.6 spools of silk.In 6/0, that is a shitload of silk. I estimate in 6/0 there will be enoughsilk for about 36 rods. I can't figure out how much silk there would be insize A. The silk people have not given me a #/yrds figure yet. They like todeal in terms of weight.To be honest it looks like the group is moving toward size 6/0 or A inAntiqueGold (BC 3715). There is a strong contingent for size 6/0 Java Beige (BC5115Payne Brown). To be honest again, the final decision will be made by me, for a fewreasons.First, I am fronting the $500, so if the silk turns out to be crap I won'teven ask any of you to purchase any of the stuff. Even if the silk isperfect, you won't have to pay for it if you don't like it. Secondly, I willbe the only person participating in the custom order who really knows howeveryone votes anyway, so I guess I can throw the election results. Thirdly,there appear to be more people involved in the order than number of spoolsavailable. I want to keep our first order at the minimum (see Reason One).If the silk turns out to be fantastic, we can do subsequent orders until weall get tied of the exercise. Thanks for your interest. Let me know what you want. Chris Lucker from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed May 6 20:13:57 1998 Subject: Re: Trumpet/Bell Guide Source??? Russ,I don't have any bell or trumpet guides in stock, but I have madethem don't find what you'r looking for, let me know.Maybe I can help you out. Dave LeClair from davidjrogers@hotmail.com Wed May 6 20:17:12 1998 Wed, 06 May 1998 18:16:38 PDT Subject: An idea for a mill I've come up with an idea for a mill based on comments by master mill-maker Chris. I thought I wold run it by the list for comments. The idea is to use a moulder/planer--the kind of tool used to cut mouldings for homes (and plane rough lumber). Jet has one that runs for about $760. Using a 4-inch blank knife set, have a machine shop custom cut a tool to cut six strips at once. It would look something like this: |-------------------||_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_| Then build a jig to hold the split strips. The strips would sit on an anvil similar to the ones used on the Bellinger or Morgan mills with the taper. The jig and strips would run through the moulder/planer, machining the strips to the final taper. I would rig a spring-loaded hold-down at the front and back of the moulder/planer similar to the ones that Bob Milward uses on his. With one pass, a section is ready I would be interested in feedback as to whether you think this would work. David ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed May 6 20:23:57 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0500 Subject: Re: Binder for Amateurs Tom,Thanks for the simplified binder. If I had not already spent severalhoursputting together a Garrison/Cattanach/Kreider hybrid, and many moretuning it, Ithink I would be able to produce one of these that actually worked. Infact,nexttime I break the binding thread or drive belt on my current binder, I mayjustscrap the whole thing. from the looks of your binder, the metal pulleys could probably bereplacedwith circles cut from wood to save a few dollars. One question springs tomind:Does the binding thread create all the pressure needed, or am I overlookingsomething?Harry Boyd TSmithwick wrote: The attachment is a JPEG photo of a binder.It has always seemed to me that any binder I tried was a bit tricky toset upand adjust. I guess it's OK if you make a lot of rods and get the feel forthethings by using them all the time. Half the time I don't even bother, andbind Here is a binder that:Can be built with hardware store parts.Is easy to adjust and intuitive to use.Is portable.It consists of two 6" pulleys mounted on !/2" ID, 5/8" OD copper watertube. A5/8" retaining ring holds each in place. The copper tube is mounted to theplywood frame with pipe hanging straps. The drive pulley has a length of"V"belt contact cemented in it's groove, in effect a rubber tire. It also has ahandle mounted, so it can be cranked by the user.The binder pulley has a spool of thread, a thread tensioner, and a threadguide mounted on it's face. In front of the binder pulley, on it's shaft is a5/8" ID wire compression spring, with a washer on each end. This pushesthebinder pulley back into the drive pulley, creating the friction that allowsthe machine to work. The machine is clamped to your bench.In use, the rod section is fed through the middle of the binder pulleyfromthe back. After attaching the thread, you slowly pull the section throughfromthe front with your left hand. You crank in one direction with your righthand direction for the second wrap. I thought I might need a brake on the drivewheel so that I could stop and change hand positions without losingtension,but there is enough drag built in that it was not necessary. from destinycon@mindspring.com Wed May 6 20:46:12 1998 Subject: Re: Fitting Ferrules 802/525-3623 At 08:27 PM 5/6/98 +0000, you wrote:Does someone have a phone # for Baily Woods? Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from allen@chem.eng.usyd.edu.au Wed May 6 20:54:07 1998 (5.65v3.2/1.1.10.5/24Jul97-0344PM) request>ilp from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed May 6 20:55:11 1998 Subject: Re: Binder for Amateurs In a message dated 5/7/98 1:29:12 AM, you wrote: Harry - The thread does produce enough pressure for a tight glue joint. Ihaveglued up numerous rods by hand with thread being fed off an old reel withafew lbs. pressure. I see no reason why wooden wheels would not work asreplacements for the pullys. from emiller257@dataflo.net Wed May 6 21:23:16 1998 wddataflo.dataflo.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA26488 for Subject: Re: Binder for Amateurs TSmithwick wrote: In a message dated 5/7/98 1:29:12 AM, you wrote: something?>> Harry - The thread does produce enough pressure for a tight glue joint. Ihaveglued up numerous rods by hand with thread being fed off an old reelwith afew lbs. pressure. I see no reason why wooden wheels would not work asreplacements for the pullys.Tom, thanks for sharing this simple buteffectivelooking tool. It certainly looks like something I can handle,simple enough for my ability .And cheap to make. Thanks again.....Ed Miller from channer@hubwest.com Wed May 6 21:26:12 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AC347300EC; Wed, 06 May 1998 20:28:04 MDT Subject: Re: Fitting Ferrules At 08:27 PM 5/6/98 +0000, you wrote:Does someone have a phone # for Baily Woods? Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ Jon;Don't you get the Planing Form, its in there every month, Classic SportingEnterprises,802-525-3623John Channer from hokkaido_flyfisher@yahoo.com Wed May 6 21:33:51 1998 Subject: Apprenticeship in Japan Dear Rodmakers, A few weeks ago, I have started an apprenticeshipto make a bamboo rod here in Sapporo, Japan. My sensei has guided me through the initial steps to the point where we've finished the final planing ... we're waiting for some mutual free time to glue the rod. Hoshihara-sensei has been making cane rods for about10 years, and he'd like to get some more informationon custom grade planing forms ... does anyone outthere have any address & comments? Much appreciated, Christian ==Mr. Christian THALACKERc/o Asaina Michiko-san Otaru University of CommerceMatsugae 2-6-30 Otaru International Center047-0022 Hokkaido JAPAN Midori 3-5-21 Otaru047 Hokkaido JAPAN Email: Hokkaido_Flyfisher@yahoo.comHompepage: http://members.tripod.com/~Nijimasu/O.html_________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from Ragnarig@aol.com Wed May 6 21:34:00 1998 Subject: Re: Shenandoah BBQ Chris When is this catfish bake supposed to take place? Davy from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed May 6 21:37:58 1998 Thu, 7 May 1998 10:37:48 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Para Casting Experience... On Wed, 6 May 1998, Jon Lintvet wrote: I just finished a Para 6wt. I went out and cast it with a 5wt Cortland 444 and I wasn't sure so I went and bought a Cortland SL 444 6wt. Still not sure. I don't know if it is the line or what but I have not gotten the hang of it. I am going out tomorrow to cast again. I must say the rod is heavy. Next one along these lines I am scallop building. Oh ohhh, the first steps with a para. What is the rod? Assuming the rod is built right and I do assume that, I'd stick with the lighter line and relax during the cast. Possibly the reel is too light if it feels heavy?The reason I always say do a bit of lawn casting then put the rod away and try again is that learning to cast a para *can* be difficult depending on what you're used to and all trying too hard will do is gradually shorten the length of the cast because you get stressed and try too hard. With a bit of practice it'll all click and you'll get that "ah ha" feeling and see why people bother with them. Pretend you're on the stream and time dosn't matter, that might get you in the right frame of mind. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed May 6 22:13:40 1998 Subject: Re: Re: machine shop link Bob, from the quality of your reel seats the lack of shop training seemsirrelevant. Yes, they arrived and are great.Regards, Hank. from sats@gte.net Wed May 6 22:13:54 1998 Subject: Re: Weakening a rod WAA13866 thatare missing tips, or have tips 13" long!) Terry - I am looking for a good Granger n/s uplock reel seat. Any chanceyouhave a discard butt section with one attached you'd consider partingwith? Ifso, please let me know.Thanks and Regards,Richard Tyree I took a look through my "junk" ( and most of it is.) and couldn't findanything even close to a granger. Sorry. I'll keep an eye out in my wanderings. Terry K. --Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed May 6 22:13:54 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Ah....Springtime Tony,The guy would be a rough fish-you'd have to pickle him.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed May 6 22:14:03 1998 Subject: Re: Stress curves Bob,I may be wrong but I've found that the 200,000 mark to be too low-if youget to 300,000 then I would start to worry. This stuff can stand a lotmoreabuse than most people think.Regards, Hank. from channer@hubwest.com Wed May 6 22:19:40 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A8B93F00E2; Wed, 06 May 1998 21:21:29 MDT Subject: Re: Binder for Amateurs At 03:58 PM 5/6/98 EDT, you wrote:The attachment is a JPEG photo of a binder.It has always seemed to me that any binder I tried was a bit tricky to setupand adjust. I guess it's OK if you make a lot of rods and get the feel forthethings by using them all the time. Half the time I don't even bother, andbind Here is a binder that:Can be built with hardware store parts.Is easy to adjust and intuitive to use.Is portable.It consists of two 6" pulleys mounted on !/2" ID, 5/8" OD copper watertube. A5/8" retaining ring holds each in place. The copper tube is mounted to theplywood frame with pipe hanging straps. The drive pulley has a length of"V"belt contact cemented in it's groove, in effect a rubber tire. It also has ahandle mounted, so it can be cranked by the user.The binder pulley has a spool of thread, a thread tensioner, and a threadguide mounted on it's face. In front of the binder pulley, on it's shaft is a5/8" ID wire compression spring, with a washer on each end. This pushesthebinder pulley back into the drive pulley, creating the friction that allowsthe machine to work. The machine is clamped to your bench.In use, the rod section is fed through the middle of the binder pulley fromthe back. After attaching the thread, you slowly pull the section throughfromthe front with your left hand. You crank in one direction with your righthand direction for the second wrap. I thought I might need a brake on the drivewheel so that I could stop and change hand positions without losingtension,but there is enough drag built in that it was not necessary. Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\ATTACH\binder" Tom;I have miserable luck with attachments, as usual, I couldn't get yours toopen, not even thru file manager. Could I ask you to snail mail me apicture or drawing of your binder, it sounds like something that will workbetter for me than the bastardized Garrison creation I made myself,although thanks to Chris Bogarts tips I finally got it to get thru mosttimes without breaking thread. Am I guessing right that this is a low techversion of Dawn Holbrooks design or Bob Milwards? Would like to buildsomething uncomplicated that even I won't twist the rod with. Thanks John Channer5154 Hwy 172Durango, Co.81301 from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed May 6 22:36:33 1998 Thu, 7 May 1998 11:36:19 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Binder for Amateurs John,I didn't pay much attention to the file in question but try opening it using Netscape or that other browser Micro Soft peddle. You'll be able to view it then. Tony Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\ATTACH\binder" Tom;I have miserable luck with attachments, as usual, I couldn't get yours toopen, not even thru file manager. Could I ask you to snail mail me apicture or drawing of your binder, it sounds like something that willworkbetter for me than the bastardized Garrison creation I made myself,although thanks to Chris Bogarts tips I finally got it to get thru mosttimes without breaking thread. Am I guessing right that this is a lowtechversion of Dawn Holbrooks design or Bob Milwards? Would like to buildsomething uncomplicated that even I won't twist the rod with. Thanks John Channer5154 Hwy 172Durango, Co.81301 /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from Ragnarig@aol.com Wed May 6 22:41:24 1998 Subject: Re: Para Casting Experience... Dear John Probably the lighter line would be better. Oftentimes the Triangle-Taperlines are worth a try. Take your time and forget about that graphite"follow- through" - keep your stroke at the top and let the rod do the work. It doestake a little getting used to. Cast this rod every day for a few weeks and I'll bet you forget all thatrashtalk about scalloping. Carbohydrates before you cast, then protein after :-) Davy Riggs from saweiss@flash.net Wed May 6 22:41:57 1998 Does someone have a phone # for Baily Woods? Phone is (802) 525-3623/fax 3982.Steve Weiss from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed May 6 22:47:42 1998 Subject: RE:Apprenticeship in Japan RO>Dear Rodmakers, RO>A few weeks ago, I have started an apprenticeshipRO>to make a bamboo rod here in Sapporo, Japan. RO>My sensei has guided me through the initial stepsRO>to the point where we've finished the final planingRO>... we're waiting for some mutual free time to glueRO>the rod. RO>Hoshihara-sensei has been making cane rods for aboutRO>10 years, and he'd like to get some more informationRO>on custom grade planing forms ... does anyone outRO>there have any address & comments? RO>Much appreciated, Christian Christian, I posted a copy of your posts from FF@ - people know you already! I'm sure you will get several sources of forms. But take a look atJerry's URL again - Tom Penrose and several others show you how to makeforms. Frank A. in Co is a source of metal forms. (I'm saving my pennies to buya set myself) Don Burns from deuchman@hereintown.net Wed May 6 22:54:02 1998 23:53:55-0400 Subject: Hickory Rod.... =_NextPart_000_01BD794A.3AEEA0E0" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD794A.3AEEA0E0 I really appreciate all of the comments on my idea of building a hickory =rod. In reference to Ralph's mention of the article in The Planing Form =it was in issue # 27 from one Bill Keel of Marietta GA (reproduced in =The Best Of The Planing Form book). His idea was to use hickory dowels =(as are used in the fabrication of ram rods for black powder guns), and =slip sanding them to achieve the desired flex when compared to a bamboo=rod. Incidentally, this is where my idea originated. Any wooden rods =that I have read about thus far were constructed in this manner, save =Tonkin rods. What I plan to attempt is to saw the hickory into square =rods (my hickory boards are leftover scraps from a woodworker friend =that made a rocking chair), and scarf them into strips of the proper =length to run through the planing form (which I am still in the process =of making). The piece of hickory that I have is of unusually straight =grained nature (said friend is a stickler for choosing beautiful pieces =of wood), and actually fairly light in weight. I plan to maintain a =strict orientation of the grain of the wood when scarfing and planing =the strips so as to eliminate any "baseball bat-like sweetspot", and to =maintain as much of the power of the wood as possible. When gluing up =the sections I plan to follow the cane rod's hex design instead of slip =sanding to round, in order to help minimize the possibility of a "sweet =spot" design. Not being a rodmaker (yet), or what I would consider an =accomplished woodworker, I think that this approach will lend itself to =a greater possibility of a successful attempt at my idea than any other. Perhaps my efforts will end with a less than suitable rod for fishing =purposes, but if that is the case would it not be good practice for =making a Tonkin rod, and make a wonderful "wall hanging" rod in the same=process. After all, would a cane rod be happier on a wall, or on a = As for going straight to Tonkin, rest assured that is where my ideals =are leading. I was just pondering the possibility of my ideas with wood = Rich Keller230 National HighwayLaVale, MD. 21502deuchman@hereintown.net> from flyfisher@nextdim.com Wed May 623:13:32 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id A3A61A830152; Wed, 06 May 1998 21:08:06 PDT Subject: Re: Hickory Rod.... Rick and all, when I first got started, I was a little afraid of ruining thebamboo strips so I practiced on pine strips till I was satisfied that Icould maintain the correct angles and dimensions before I attemptedworkingwithDell Coppock,"IN THE GREAT NORTHWEST"http://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail flyfisher@nextdim.com- ----Original Message----- Subject: Hickory Rod.... I really appreciate all of the comments on my idea of building a hickoryrod. In reference to Ralph's mention of the article in The Planing Form itwas in issue # 27 from one Bill Keel of Marietta GA (reproduced in TheBestOf The Planing Form book). His idea was to use hickory dowels (as areusedin the fabrication of ram rods for black powder guns), and slip sandingthemto achieve the desired flex when compared to a bamboo rod. Incidentally,this is where my idea originated. Any wooden rods that I have read aboutthus far were constructed in this manner, save Tonkin rods. What I plan toattempt is to saw the hickory into square rods (my hickory boards areleftover scraps from a woodworker friend that made a rocking chair), andscarf them into strips of the proper length to run through the planing form(which I am still in the process of making). The piece of hickory that Ihave is of unusually straight grained nature (said friend is a stickler forchoosing beautiful pieces of wood), and actually fairly light in weight. Iplan to maintain a strict orientation of the grain of the wood whenscarfingand planing the strips so as to eliminate any "baseball bat-likesweetspot",and to maintain as much of the power of the wood as possible. Whengluingup the sections I plan to follow the cane rod's hex design instead of slipsanding to round, in order to help minimize the possibility of a "sweetspot" design. Not being a rodmaker (yet), or what I would consider anaccomplished woodworker, I think that this approach will lend itself to agreater possibility of a successful attempt at my idea than any other. Perhaps my efforts will end with a less than suitable rod for fishingpurposes, but if that is the case would it not be good practice for making aTonkin rod, and make a wonderful "wall hanging" rod in the same process.After all, would a cane rod be happier on a wall, or on a stream? As for going straight to Tonkin, rest assured that is where my ideals areleading. I was just pondering the possibility of my ideas with wood firstsince I was able to acquire the leftovers for free. Rich Keller230 National HighwayLaVale, MD. 21502deuchman@hereintown.net from Fallcreek9@aol.com Wed May 6 23:14:28 1998 Subject: Re: Binder for Amateurs In a message dated 98-05-06 22:01:16 EDT, you write: Harry, Tom: I built a Milward-type binder and made the 4 pullys fromPoplarwhich was completely satisfactory. Tom, your one-spool, one wheel ideawithtwo passes is brilliant by comparison. Keeping four tensioners in sync isaproblem. Think I will convert mine forthwith. Thanks for the idea.Regards,Richard from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed May 6 23:25:25 1998 Subject: Re: Apprenticeship in Japan Christian -You might contact Yuki Sasano there in Japan from allen@chem.eng.usyd.edu.au Wed May 6 23:45:45 1998 (5.65v3.2/1.1.10.5/24Jul97-0344PM) Subject: coatings for splitcane rods Hi all I removed the original varnish with lots of methylated spirits and a ragso it was probably just shelak or some thing similar. But what I aminterested in finding out is the current product used by Split canerodmakers today.I am familiar with the two pack epoxies used on glass rods but I am tryingto achieve the more overall uniform coating that old rods obtained asopposed to the bulbous look two pack epoxies give Any one out there have any suggestions Allen from Nodewrrior@aol.com Wed May 6 23:47:08 1998 Subject: Re: Taper search 8'6" Does anybody have a nice 8'6" 3pc 5/6wt "Western" style taper they couldshare?Any help would be appreciated! Rob Hoffhines from hokkaido_flyfisher@yahoo.com Wed May 6 23:47:42 1998 Subject: Re: Apprenticeship in Japan .... Sasano Dear Wayne, I often visit the Sasano shop, but I havenever seen a set of planing forms available,at least at their shop in Sapporo (am Ierroneously assuming that Yuki Sasano andthe nationwide Sasano flyfishing shop are one in the same?). One of Hoshihara-sensei's friends made a set of forms a while back, but theywere unbalanced, ... thus unusable. So, he continues with a decent set ... but ison the lookout ... Any other leads would be VERY appreciated. Cheers & Tight Lines, Christian -Wayne Catt wrote:Christian -You might contact Yuki Sasano there in Japan. ==Mr. Christian THALACKERc/o Asaina Michiko-san Otaru University of CommerceMatsugae 2-6-30 Otaru International Center047-0022 Hokkaido JAPAN Midori 3-5-21 Otaru047 Hokkaido JAPAN Email: Hokkaido_Flyfisher@yahoo.comHompepage: http://members.tripod.com/~Nijimasu/O.html_________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from dickay@alltel.net Wed May 6 23:53:25 1998 XAA12314 Subject: Re: Binder for Amateurs John, I had to call my son for help. He suggested that I look up the file andwhen I found it there was no file extension. I renamed the file with a"JPG" extension and then was able to view it. Try it. Good Luck Dick Fuhrman from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu May 7 00:15:45 1998 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA10177 Subject: Re: An idea for a mill How would you get the taper??? Raise or lower the cutters at some rateproportional to the feed rate??? Also, planers tend to "snipe" about 6" ateither end. I wouldn't think that this was too practical (unless all youwantedwas the 60 degree angle, then it seems a bit pricey for so littleresults-wise). My $0.02,George Bourke ----------From: David Rogers Subject: An idea for a millDate: Wednesday, May 06, 1998 6:16 PM I've come up with an idea for a mill based on comments by master mill-maker Chris. I thought I wold run it by the list for comments. The idea is to use a moulder/planer--the kind of tool used to cut mouldings for homes (and plane rough lumber). Jet has one that runs for about $760. Using a 4-inch blank knife set, have a machine shop custom cut a tool to cut six strips at once. It would look something like this: |-------------------||_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_| Then build a jig to hold the split strips. The strips would sit on an anvil similar to the ones used on the Bellinger or Morgan mills with the taper. The jig and strips would run through the moulder/planer, machining the strips to the final taper. I would rig a spring-loaded hold-down at the front and back of the moulder/planer similar to the ones that Bob Milward uses on his. With one pass, a section is ready I would be interested in feedback as to whether you think this would work. David ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu May 7 00:36:00 1998 Subject: Re: Apprenticeship in Japan .... Sasano Christian -Yuki and his son were just here with me in Michigan. I would suspectthatyou will see evidence of their visit there in Japan shortly Wayne from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu May 7 00:50:41 1998 Thu, 7 May 1998 13:49:57 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Ah....Springtime On Wed, 6 May 1998, FISHWOOL wrote: Tony,The guy would be a rough fish-you'd have to pickle him.Hank. He would have to have been 50% pickled to do it wouldn't he? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from hokkaido_flyfisher@yahoo.com Thu May 7 01:45:50 1998 Subject: Re: Apprenticeship in Japan .... Sasano visit Dear Wayne, Hmmm .... a message cryptic & intriguing ...I will keep my eyes open ... Cheers & Tight Lines, Christian --Wayne Catt wrote:Christian -Yuki and his son were just here with me in Michigan. I would suspect that you will see evidence of their visit there in Japan shortlyWayne _________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Thu May 7 02:45:53 1998 ; Thu, 7 May 1998 19:45:34 +1200 Subject: Re: Binder for Amateurs Thank you for that advice Tony . A great help to computor illiterates likeme , and my son is not home to tell his poor old dad what to do . John ,I looked up the file using Netscape , had no trouble , and the binderlooks very simple .I was going to build myself a Garrison binder on theweekend but will now try this instead . Thanks Tom . Iank At 11:36 AM 7/05/98 +0800, you wrote:John,I didn't pay much attention to the file in question but try opening it using Netscape or that other browser Micro Soft peddle. You'll be able to view it then. Tony Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\ATTACH\binder" Tom;I have miserable luck with attachments, as usual, I couldn't get yours toopen, not even thru file manager. Could I ask you to snail mail me apicture or drawing of your binder, it sounds like something that willworkbetter for me than the bastardized Garrison creation I made myself,although thanks to Chris Bogarts tips I finally got it to get thru mosttimes without breaking thread. Am I guessing right that this is a lowtechversion of Dawn Holbrooks design or Bob Milwards? Would like to buildsomething uncomplicated that even I won't twist the rod with. Thanks John Channer5154 Hwy 172Durango, Co.81301 /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email iank@nelson.planet.org.nz from channer@hubwest.com Thu May 7 03:55:21 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A76612F00FA; Thu, 07 May 1998 02:57:10 MDT Subject: Re: Binder for Amateurs At 11:54 PM 5/6/98 -0500, you wrote: John, I had to call my son for help. He suggested that I look up the file andwhen I found it there was no file extension. I renamed the file with a"JPG" extension and then was able to view it. Try it. Good Luck Dick Fuhrman Dick;It worked!!!! Much to my amazement, this&^%$%^&#@*machine actually didwhatI told it. Not only that, but the picture I printed out was much betterthan what I see on the screen.Thanks alot for the computer lesson. Any series of pictures and the files all end with vd, but the folders areblank,it might do my standing here a lot of good if I can bring them up.Thanks againJohn Channer from channer@hubwest.com Thu May 7 03:55:25 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A76B12F00FA; Thu, 07 May 1998 02:57:15 MDT Subject: binder for amateurs Tom;Please cancel my request for a snail mail picture, thanks to the expertadvise of Dick Furman, I was able to get the picture to come up. Now I havea bunch of questions. What kind of pulleys are these? They look better thanthe clothes line pulleys I have seen and not quite as heavy as the machinepulleys .Also, do you use tape to hold your splines together when you glue,if so, do you take it off as you bind? How long is the tubing the rod goesthru?I gotta stop at the hardware store tomorrow and see what they'vegot.Thanks for the picture and the info, this looks like a great machine. John Channer from Ragnarig@aol.com Thu May 7 06:24:55 1998 Subject: Re: Binder for Amateurs Dear Tom Thanks for sending the picture. This is wonderful! Beside being a good, simple contraption, it has definite sexualconnotations.Now I can make an even bigger pest of myself when my wife wanders intotheshop, "Hey honey, would you mind pulling on this whilst I..." Seriously, I think the basic principle is really good and I can't wait tostart playing with it. The idea. Davy from Cmwall@aol.com Thu May 7 06:45:43 1998 Subject: Re: 4'4" Guide Spacing A.J.,Thank you for posting guide spacing on 4'4" 4 wt. I just glued mine up last night . I glued up as a one piece but am going to cut in half andmakeit two .The half way point would 26" that would mean the stripper would be abovethefurrel.I suppose that would alright?? The best I remember you posted it wouldtake11/64furrel. Thanks, Mac from Ragnarig@aol.com Thu May 7 06:51:06 1998 Subject: Re: coatings for splitcane rods Dear Allen Most cane rod makers use marine spar varnish. A few, like myself, use arubbing oil like Birchwood Casey's Tru-oil gunstock finish. There are afewvariations on the theme but most use either an oil-based or urethanevarnishof some kind. You can rub it in by hand, brush it or spray it, but a great many fill a long,thin tube with varnish and dip the rod sections into it and slowly extractit Depends on how deep you want to get into it, and how the original finishwasapplied and do you want to replicate that. Good luck,Davy Riggs from jcole10@juno.com Thu May 7 07:45:56 1998 08:44:39 EDT Subject: Re: Binder for Amateurs Tony I to an a whiz on the computor, Could you tell me how to get thispicture on NetscapeThanks John Cole E-Mail jcole10@juno.comOn Thu, 7 May 1998 11:36:18 +0800 (WST) Tony Youngwrites:John,I didn't pay much attention to the file in question but try opening it using Netscape or that other browser Micro Soft peddle. You'll be able to view it then. Tony Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\ATTACH\binder" Tom;I have miserable luck with attachments, as usual, I couldn't get yours toopen, not even thru file manager. Could I ask you to snail mail me apicture or drawing of your binder, it sounds like something that will workbetter for me than the bastardized Garrison creation I made myself,although thanks to Chris Bogarts tips I finally got it to get thru mosttimes without breaking thread. Am I guessing right that this is a low techversion of Dawn Holbrooks design or Bob Milwards? Would like to buildsomething uncomplicated that even I won't twist the rod with. Thanks John Channer5154 Hwy 172Durango, Co.81301 /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu May 7 08:08:33 1998 Subject: Re: binder for amateurs In a message dated 5/7/98 9:00:48 AM, you wrote: John - The pulleys are what is sold around here as a standard machinepulleywith a 5/8" bore. The tube is about 6", but not critical. The tube for thedrive pulley is just long enough to butt into the other tube, and to keep it from wiggling I drilled and through bolted it in addition to the mountingstraps. I used my lathe to cut a small groove for the retaining rings, butthis could also be done with a hacksaw if you mark the places where theteethof the retaining ring will contact. You should find everything but thethreadtensioner at the hardware store.I do take off the tape, there is just enough room to do this in front of thetube, but it may be easier to do it as the section enters the back of thetube. If I had it to do again, I would make the plywood box no longer thanthetube to make this a bit easier. The fit between the tube and the pulleytendsto be tight, try a couple pieces to see if you can to get a loose fit,otherwise you may have to sand a bit off the tube or ream out the pulley. from sniderja@email.uc.edu Thu May 7 09:11:40 1998 Subject: new rod tryouts Had an opportunity to spend four days in the Smoky Mtns. (Nantahala River)testing the Tom Smithwick 5'6" model and the Sir D special 7'0" 3 pc.(bothnodeless). I was simply overwhelmed with the way these rods fished (evenwith my ineptness at rod building). Caught dozens of fish each day (darnedthings keep getting in the way of my casting!) including a couple of 15inchers (one a Brookie!). Thought the seven footer was a tad heavy (3 pc.)but discovered that it took less effort to cast (even had to shorten mybackcast) and it roll casts like a dream. These make rods 3 and 4, and I amnow hooked. Rod #2 (a shortened Tom Smithwick shortie) has and is beingfished like a dervish almost daily on the Missouri River in Montana for thepast 3 months. The recipient of the rod had to gall to call me and informme that it fishes so well that I should build one for myself! Thus, thereason for the North Carolina trip. Thanks to all for your patience(usually), helpful hints (always!), and encouragement (enthusiastic!).Sorry to take up bandwidth, but thought you might appreciate the feedback.Jerry (don't let fish get in the way of your fishing!) Snider from saweiss@flash.net Thu May 7 10:11:25 1998 Subject: Re: binder for amateurs Tom,Somehow I didn't get the attachment with your e-mail.Could you please send it to me again? To minimize use of Rodmakersbandwidth, send it tosaweiss@flash.net from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Thu May 7 10:17:17 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: FW: bamboo milling machine Morgan mill takes just about as thick of shaving as you want to take andas thin as .001. The tow 60 degree carbide inserts work as scrapers andif you know how to work a scraper properly you know that in assents witha rolled edge it will remove wood/bamboo as fast as a plane. The foundthat if you soak the strips long thick shavings comes off with ease, ifI hadn't seen it my self I wouldn't have believed it. I received mybrochure from Tom last night with 4 or 5 color photos glued to it one ofthem being a glued up section with 61 1/2 degree bevel and if any onewho could see a glue line on the end grain view is either a liar or hasthe vision of super man. Like I said earlier I had thought that anybodywould waste their money on a beveler was crazy, after all I spent 8years as a journeyman and master luthier hand making violins throughupright basses, but after seeing this mill and knowing how fast and howyou could go from split strips to glue up in one evening easy I amsaving my pennies for one. This may not be for everyone but I'M GOING TOGET ME ONE! ----------From: CampblRods[SMTP:CampblRods@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 1998 5:08 PM Subject: Re: FW: bamboo milling machine Patrick, how does this hand mill shave down the cane so quickly? TenMinutes?I can see how it would take half as long since you are tapering bothsides atonce, but I don't understand how it is doing it so fast. If this isreallyso, I agree that a beveler isn't what i need. I would like to go upto about25 rods a year and it sounds like this mill is just the thing I need.Thanks,Steve CampbellCampbell Rod Co.CampblRods@aol.com from davidjrogers@hotmail.com Thu May 7 10:44:32 1998 Thu, 07 May 1998 08:43:55 PDT Subject: Re: An idea for a mill The Morgan hand mill has a tapered "anvil". The enamel side of the the bamboo strip is placed on the anvil and as the jig moves under the cutters it naturally takes on the taper. there is no raising or lowering of the cutters. How would you get the taper??? Raise or lower the cutters at some rateproportional to the feed rate??? Also, planers tend to "snipe" about 6" ateither end. I wouldn't think that this was too practical (unless all youwantedwas the 60 degree angle, then it seems a bit pricey for so littleresults-wise). My $0.02,George Bourke ----------From: David Rogers I've come up with an idea for a mill based on comments by master mill-maker Chris. I thought I wold run it by the list for comments. The idea is to use a moulder/planer--the kind of tool used to cut mouldings for homes (and plane rough lumber). Jet has one that runs about $760. Using a 4-inch blank knife set, have a machine shop custom cut a tool to cut six strips at once. It would look something like this: |-------------------||_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_| Then build a jig to hold the split strips. The strips would sit on an anvil similar to the ones used on the Bellinger or Morgan mills with the taper. The jig and strips would run through the moulder/planer, machining the strips to the final taper. I would rig a spring-loaded hold-down at the front and back of the moulder/planer similar to the ones that Bob Milward uses on his. With one pass, a section is ready I would be interested in feedback as to whether you think this would work. David ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from mcoy@sduhsd.k12.ca.us Thu May 7 11:01:59 1998 R8.00.00) Subject: Re:Binder for Amateurs --simple boundary I would love to view this attachment, but it will not come up. I added thejpgextension without success. Can you please repost or send it to medirectly. mcoy@sduhsd.k12.ca.us ____________________Reply Separator____________________Subject: Binder for AmateursAuthor: The attachment is a JPEG photo of a binder.It has always seemed to me that any binder I tried was a bit tricky to setupand adjust. I guess it's OK if you make a lot of rods and get the feel for thethings by using them all the time. Half the time I don't even bother, andbind Here is a binder that:Can be built with hardware store parts.Is easy to adjust and intuitive to use.Is portable.It consists of two 6" pulleys mounted on !/2" ID, 5/8" OD copper watertube. A5/8" retaining ring holds each in place. The copper tube is mounted to theplywood frame with pipe hanging straps. The drive pulley has a length of"V"belt contact cemented in it's groove, in effect a rubber tire. It also has ahandle mounted, so it can be cranked by the user.The binder pulley has a spool of thread, a thread tensioner, and a threadguide mounted on it's face. In front of the binder pulley, on it's shaft is a5/8" ID wire compression spring, with a washer on each end. This pushesthebinder pulley back into the drive pulley, creating the friction that allowsthe machine to work. The machine is clamped to your bench.In use, the rod section is fed through the middle of the binder pulley fromthe back. After attaching the thread, you slowly pull the section throughfromthe front with your left hand. You crank in one direction with your righthand direction for the second wrap. I thought I might need a brake on the drivewheel so that I could stop and change hand positions without losingtension,but there is enough drag built in that it was not necessary.Received: fromintergate.sduhsd.k12.ca.us by ntsmtp.sduhsd.k12.ca.us (ccMailLink to SMTP R8.00.00); Wed, 06 May 98 13:15:41 -0800 intergate.sduhsd.k12.ca.us (8.8.5/8.8.0) with ESMTP id NAA06654 for Subject: Binder for Amateurs boundary="part0_894484694_boundary" --simple boundary-- from thramer@presys.com Thu May 7 11:32:36 1998 Subject: Re: 4'4" Guide Spacing Cmwall wrote: A.J.,Thank you for posting guide spacing on 4'4" 4 wt. I just glued mineup last night . I glued up as a one piece but am going to cut in half andmakeit two .The half way point would 26" that would mean the stripper would beabove thefurrel.I suppose that would alright?? The best I remember you posted it wouldtake11/64furrel. Thanks, Mac The guide spacing is all measured from the tip. The strip guide shouldbutt against the female ferrule.A.J. from SalarFly@aol.com Thu May 7 11:39:04 1998 Subject: Re: Stress curves In a message dated 5/6/98 1:43:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time,RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu writes: In graphing a taper for a 7wt, the stress factors move quickly up to250K.My question is how much can cane handle, what is too high? The exactfigures for the first few stations are as follows (in thousands): 1"=61.7, Are thefigures at the 10 thru 20 inch stations too high and should I adjust thedimensions of this taper? Thanks in advance, Bob. What are you going to be using this rod for? Since it is a 7 wt, I wouldguess that it's not just for trout? It will probably cast okay, but I wouldbe real careful when trying to land something large. Be sure not to "givehim the butt", that is really haul back putting a deep bend in the rod.The best thing to do is hold the rod up over your head with your wristrotated away. The reel will then be facing up and away from you. Ifyou are careful to do this when landing a large fish, and don't yankback with the rod when you get hooked on a bush or tree it shouldbe fine. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Thu May 7 11:40:26 1998 Subject: Re: new rod tryouts In a message dated 5/7/98 7:17:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time,sniderja@email.uc.edu writes: Had an opportunity to spend four days in the Smoky Mtns. (NantahalaRiver)testing the Tom Smithwick 5'6" model and the Sir D special 7'0" 3 pc.(bothnodeless). I was simply overwhelmed with the way these rods fished Thought the seven footer was a tad heavy (3 pc.)but discovered that it took less effort to cast (even had to shorten mybackcast) and it roll casts like a dream. That taper is something special. I've been raving about that taperon this list for years. Your comment about the perceived ease of casting interested me, I noticed the same thing. I think because of the balance point of the rod ( with my reel it balances 2 inches down into the handle), there is less mass out in front of your hand, and as you cast it feels lighter. The roll casting is due to the "Cattanach hinge." It's the blip in the stress curve you see in the butt section. I recently made 2 of one of the variations of this taper Wayne posted afew months ago, the 6' 3" 3 piece. Sold one blank to a fellow lister, and was going to finish the other one for myself, but that one got sold too. I wish I could report on how they cast. Remember the 5' one piece I posted about recently? It's based on the same taper. Darryl Hayashida from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Thu May 7 11:48:19 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: An idea for a mill the anvil on morgans mill is not tapered its straight but has push pullbolts every 5" that allows you to set any taper you want and the cuttermoves over the anvil and strip and removes material. the bamboo strip iscut 4" longer and attached to the anvil with one screw at the back end.the only thing that moves is the part that hold the cutters. ----------From: David Rogers[SMTP:davidjrogers@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, May 07, 1998 8:43 AM Subject: Re: An idea for a mill The Morgan hand mill has a tapered "anvil". The enamel side of thethe bamboo strip is placed on the anvil and as the jig moves under the cutters it naturally takes on the taper. there is no raising or lowering of the cutters. How would you get the taper??? Raise or lower the cutters at somerateproportional to the feed rate??? Also, planers tend to "snipe" about 6" ateither end. I wouldn't think that this was too practical (unless all youwantedwas the 60 degree angle, then it seems a bit pricey for so littleresults-wise). My $0.02,George Bourke ----------From: David Rogers I've come up with an idea for a mill based on comments by master mill-maker Chris. I thought I wold run it by the list forcomments. The idea is to use a moulder/planer--the kind of tool used to cut mouldings for homes (and plane rough lumber). Jet has one thatruns about $760. Using a 4-inch blank knife set, have a machine shop custom cut a tool to cut six strips at once. It would look something like this: |-------------------||_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_| Then build a jig to hold the split strips. The strips would sit on an anvil similar to the ones used on the Bellinger or Morgan millswith the taper. The jig and strips would run through the moulder/planer, machining the strips to the final taper. I would rig aspring-loaded hold-down at the front and back of the moulder/planer similar tothe ones that Bob Milward uses on his. With one pass, a section isready I would be interested in feedback as to whether you think thiswould work. David ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu May 7 12:15:08 1998 Subject: Binder One last bit of advice on the binder. you should rig up a light cardboardshield to prevent glue from dripping on the thread so it won't be ruinednexttime you use it. Alternatively, just use enough thread for the job at handanddispose of the excess. A bit of masking tape over it's inboard side willlikewise protect the tensioner. from sniderja@email.uc.edu Thu May 7 12:40:14 1998 Subject: Re: new rod tryouts At 12:39 PM 5/7/98 EDT, you wrote:In a message dated 5/7/98 7:17:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time,sniderja@email.uc.edu writes: Darryl, you once posted a hypothetical taper of the Sir Darryl, andpredicted that it would be a fast, really "hot" rod. Did you ever have achance to build it? Would love to have the results, as I have a mind tobuild that taper myself.Jerry Snider I recently made 2 of one of the variations of this taper Wayne posted afew months ago, the 6' 3" 3 piece. Sold one blank to a fellow lister, and was going to finish the other one for myself, but that one got sold too. Iwish I could report on how they cast. Remember the 5' one piece I posted about recently? It's based on the same taper. Darryl Hayashida from rodsmiths@imt.net Thu May 7 12:59:14 1998 cu.imt.net(8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA10376 for ;Thu, 7 May Subject: Hand Mill Dear rodmakers, I joined the listserver to read about bamboo information and to readwhat has been written about my Hand Mill. I will try to answerquestions and explain how it works. I may be overwhelmed with responses from what I've heard but will try. The Hand Mill doesn't ruin six inches of Bamboo on either end. On oneend you need to hold down the strip with a screw, or in some cases, apin will work. The amount of bamboo lost at the butt end is about twoinches. The tip of the strip whether it be a butt or tip strip is cutto the very end with none lost. The Hand Mill is very accurate and will provide six strips, or in thecase of tip strips, twelve strips that are cut exactly the same. Thisprovides glued up sections that are very accurate and both tips will bethe same dimension. My hope for the Hand Mill is to make it easier for bamboo rod makers ofany level of expertise to be able to make rods. I have workeddiligently to provide a product that will very accurately make bamboostrips. As anyone knows who has made bamboo rods cutting strips is onlypart of the process and the preparation of the bamboo is criticalregardless of the cutting process. Whether it be my Hand Mill, apowered milling machine, or a hand plane the outside surface of thebamboo (the nodes) must be perfect or the final results will bedisappointing. The Hand Mill is a bit pricey which I understand. It is a precisionpiece of equipment and must be manufactured very accurately in order toprovide the end result required by rodmakers. It has been a lot of fun for me to design and develop. Thanks, Tom Morgan from ghinde@inconnect.com Thu May 7 13:19:24 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Hand Mill Tom Please send a copy of your brochure on the Hand MillTHANK YOU George Greys River Rod Co.5763 McMillan CircleMurray, Utah 84107 ----------From: Tom Morgan & Gerri Carlson Subject: Hand MillDate: Thursday, May 07, 1998 11:59 AM Dear rodmakers, I joined the listserver to read about bamboo information and to readwhat has been written about my Hand Mill. I will try to answerquestions and explain how it works. I may be overwhelmed withresponses from what I've heard but will try. The Hand Mill doesn't ruin six inches of Bamboo on either end. On oneend you need to hold down the strip with a screw, or in some cases, apin will work. The amount of bamboo lost at the butt end is about twoinches. The tip of the strip whether it be a butt or tip strip is cutto the very end with none lost. The Hand Mill is very accurate and will provide six strips, or in thecase of tip strips, twelve strips that are cut exactly the same. Thisprovides glued up sections that are very accurate and both tips will bethe same dimension. My hope for the Hand Mill is to make it easier for bamboo rod makers ofany level of expertise to be able to make rods. I have workeddiligently to provide a product that will very accurately make bamboostrips. As anyone knows who has made bamboo rods cutting strips isonlypart of the process and the preparation of the bamboo is criticalregardless of the cutting process. Whether it be my Hand Mill, apowered milling machine, or a hand plane the outside surface of thebamboo (the nodes) must be perfect or the final results will bedisappointing. The Hand Mill is a bit pricey which I understand. It is a precisionpiece of equipment and must be manufactured very accurately in order toprovide the end result required by rodmakers. It has been a lot of fun for me to design and develop. Thanks, Tom Morgan from dunkeld@selway.umt.edu Thu May 7 14:07:22 1998 13:07:16-0600 13:07:12 Subject: Re: Apprenticeship in Japan .... Sasano visit Hi Chris! What a surprise. Maybe Yuki who visited Mr. Wayne is not Sasano but Mr. Yukinari Bando wholives in Chicago. Yuki is writing articles about bamboo rod builders inUSA which you can read in the magazine called "Furai no zasshi" publishedin Japan. The latest article was about Mr. Glenn Bracket of the Winston. Naohisa On Wed, 6 May 1998, Christian THALACKER wrote: Dear Wayne, Hmmm .... a message cryptic & intriguing ...I will keep my eyes open ... Cheers & Tight Lines, Christian --Wayne Catt wrote:Christian -Yuki and his son were just here with me in Michigan. I would suspect that you will see evidence of their visit there in Japan shortlyWayne _________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com * Naohisa Kanda ** Division of Biological Sciences ** University of Montana ** Missoula, MT 59812 * from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu May 7 14:32:52 1998 Subject: Re: new rod tryouts RO>>I recently made 2 of one of the variations of this taper Wayne posteda fewRO>>months ago, the 6' 3" 3 piece. Sold one blank to a fellow lister, andwasRO>>going to finish the other one for myself, but that one got sold too. IRO>wish IRO>>could report on how they cast. Remember the 5' one piece I postedaboutRO>>recently? It's based on the same taper.RO>>RO>>Darryl Hayashida Darryl, You could finish the 6'3" for me and then I'd be kind enough to let youtest it. Don Burns from SalarFly@aol.com Thu May 7 14:36:18 1998 Subject: Re: new rod tryouts In a message dated 5/7/98 10:42:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time,sniderja@email.uc.edu writes: Darryl, you once posted a hypothetical taper of the Sir Darryl, andpredicted that it would be a fast, really "hot" rod. Did you ever have achance to build it? Would love to have the results, as I have a mind tobuild that taper myself. That's the taper I have been writing about off and on. The tight loop, no roll cast rod. It will throw a lot of line, due mostly to it'stremendouslystrong butt section and tight loop design tip, but it doesn't roll castworth beans. If you don't ever need to roll cast it's a good short rod.Darryl from Cmwall@aol.com Thu May 7 14:54:06 1998 Subject: Re: 4'4" Guide Spacing Thanks A.J. Mac from RVenneri@aol.com Thu May 7 15:39:06 1998 Subject: Re: machine shop link Hank Thanks for the compliment. I try to sell a quality product at a fair price.If you need any thing else or you need a custom seat give me a call or dropmea line.Thanks againBob VVenneri's Custom Components21 Chuck Hill RoadSaugerties N Y 12477914 246 5882 from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Thu May 7 15:44:25 1998 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Thu, 07 May 98 16:43:03 EDT Subject: Re: Stress curves Interesting technique. With salmon, and I intend this as a grilse rod,it's very important to keep the butt low and the arc of the rod low. (By alow arc I mean the curve formed by the rod from butt to tip.) This way itis still possible to "put the wood to 'em" but still be able to reactquickly to a sudden change of direction, a leap or summersault. Holdingthe rod too high at the butt has the effect of increasing the arc, making abrake more likely, and reducing reaction time. There is another advantageof a low arc and it has to do with moving the fish. They seem to cooperatemore when the angle of line to the surfact of the water is lower,sometimesmaking it possible to move a fish out of a strong current, or away from anobstruction and so on. There are mayflies swarming outside my officewindow, and ... So, by your comments I'm guessing the 250K range is no problem? Bob. At 12:38 PM 5/7/98 EDT, you wrote:In a message dated 5/6/98 1:43:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time,RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu writes: In graphing a taper for a 7wt, the stress factors move quickly up to250K.My question is how much can cane handle, what is too high? The exactfigures for the first few stations are as follows (in thousands):1"=61.7, Arethefigures at the 10 thru 20 inch stations too high and should I adjust thedimensions of this taper? Thanks in advance, Bob. What are you going to be using this rod for? Since it is a 7 wt, I wouldguess that it's not just for trout? It will probably cast okay, but I wouldbe real careful when trying to land something large. Be sure not to "givehim the butt", that is really haul back putting a deep bend in the rod.The best thing to do is hold the rod up over your head with your wristrotated away. The reel will then be facing up and away from you. Ifyou are careful to do this when landing a large fish, and don't yankback with the rod when you get hooked on a bush or tree it shouldbe fine. Darryl Hayashida Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128 from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu May 7 16:08:40 1998 (205.236.249.176) Subject: Re: FW: bamboo milling machine Carbide cutters cannot stand the rake angles that that can be put oncarbonsteel plane blades, so more force is required to cut, add to this you arecutting two sides at once. It does not sound right to me at all. Whathappens to your tolerances once the strips have dried out?I would try it out before I shelled out any cash. Hand planing is handplaning and whether you pull or push, there is no mechanical advantage asfar as I can see.Practice with a hand plane and split accurately and anyone can knock out atwo tip blank in a day.Terry Coffey, Patrick W wrote: Morgan mill takes just about as thick of shaving as you want to take andas thin as .001. The tow 60 degree carbide inserts work as scrapers andif you know how to work a scraper properly you know that in assentswitha rolled edge it will remove wood/bamboo as fast as a plane. The foundthat if you soak the strips long thick shavings comes off with ease, ifI hadn't seen it my self I wouldn't have believed it. I received mybrochure from Tom last night with 4 or 5 color photos glued to it one ofthem being a glued up section with 61 1/2 degree bevel and if any onewho could see a glue line on the end grain view is either a liar or hasthe vision of super man. Like I said earlier I had thought that anybodywould waste their money on a beveler was crazy, after all I spent 8years as a journeyman and master luthier hand making violins throughupright basses, but after seeing this mill and knowing how fast and howyou could go from split strips to glue up in one evening easy I amsaving my pennies for one. This may not be for everyone but I'M GOING TOGET ME ONE! ----------From: CampblRods[SMTP:CampblRods@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 1998 5:08 PM Subject: Re: FW: bamboo milling machine Patrick, how does this hand mill shave down the cane so quickly? TenMinutes?I can see how it would take half as long since you are tapering bothsides atonce, but I don't understand how it is doing it so fast. If this isreallyso, I agree that a beveler isn't what i need. I would like to go upto about25 rods a year and it sounds like this mill is just the thing I need.Thanks,Steve CampbellCampbell Rod Co.CampblRods@aol.com from Canerods@aol.com Thu May 7 16:15:41 1998 Subject: Re: coatings for splitcane rods In a message dated 98-05-07 00:51:46 EDT, you write: Allen, Spar varnish is the traditional finish. That and silk thread for the wraps.You might want to spend $25 and buy youself a copy of Michael Sinclair's"Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook" too. Don Burns from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu May 7 16:58:52 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA212958174; Thu, 7 May 1998 14:56:14 -0700 Subject: Re: coatings for splitcane rods Allen, A couple of other suggestions. Pre-coat the rod with a tung oil or other thin penetrating varnish finish prior to wrapping and finishing if dipping. Be sure any open seams are thoroughly sealed to prevent air bubbles and bleeds. If you plan to color preserve the wraps and are using non-black silk then start with a highly thinned coat of preserver, then a couple coats of full strength followed by a coat or two of polyurethane finish to seal and dry quickly. If you use a dip method and spar varnish allow the preserved wraps to dry thoroughly (several days) before dipping. Heat the room room or the varnish tank up and don't hesitate to thin the spar varnish as much as about 12% and withdraw at about 3" to 4" per minute. I've found that a slower rate results in more spar varnish bleeds I guess because of the time and pressure of being in the tube. Although I think it's accurate for old rods spar varnish drives me wacko sometimes (ashort drive) with it's propensity to bleed into the wraps and darken the color. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from saltwein@swbell.net Thu May 7 17:52:54 1998 gw1adm.rcsntx.swbell.net RAA19712 Subject: Micing tapers Some questions for those of you who have done this before or who haveestablished, in your opinion, acceptable techniques. If you mic three flats and the readings are .124-.126-.126, would youassume the one flat was shy .002, or would you average them and considerthat station to be .125? I miced out a couple of rods today. I didn't care for the way the anvilon my caliper treated the varnish. Do any of you use a cloth orsomething to protect rods you are micing? I wouldn't want to damage arod someone was kind enough to let me measure. In measuring in areas where there is thread or a ferrule do youextrapolate the figure from the previous measurement? Example: Tipmeasurement at one inch down mic's at .082, the five inch measurement is.095, or an average, rounding up, of .003 per inch. Tip measurement atextreme is .079. Any input will be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu May 7 17:59:27 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA131891804; Thu, 7 May 1998 15:56:44 -0700 Subject: RE: Micing Tapers Steve, You could put a layer of masking tape over each of the jaws of the mic, then shut it down, note the measurement and subtract this amount fromeach of your measurements as you go. Chris McDowell from SalarFly@aol.com Thu May 7 18:03:46 1998 Subject: Re: Stress curves In a message dated 5/7/98 1:48:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time,RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu writes: Interesting technique. With salmon, and I intend this as a grilse rod,it's very important to keep the butt low and the arc of the rod low. (By alow arc I mean the curve formed by the rod from butt to tip.) This wayitis still possible to "put the wood to 'em" but still be able to reactquickly to a sudden change of direction, a leap or summersault. Holdingthe rod too high at the butt has the effect of increasing the arc, makingabrake more likely, and reducing reaction time. There is anotheradvantageof a low arc and it has to do with moving the fish. They seem tocooperatemore when the angle of line to the surfact of the water is lower,sometimesmaking it possible to move a fish out of a strong current, or away fromanobstruction and so on. There are mayflies swarming outside my officewindow, and ... What I meant about holding the rod high was right when the fish is atyour feet, and you are just about to net or grab him. The other stuffyou wrote about fighting the fish when it is still out in the river (lake,etc.) goes without saying. So, by your comments I'm guessing the 250K range is no problem? Bob. Shouldn't be. Give it a try. Darryl from flyfisher@nextdim.com Thu May 7 18:05:48 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id ACEB445018E; Thu, 07 May 1998 15:59:55 PDT Subject: Re: Micing tapers I would guess that anytime in measuring a varnished rod it impossible togetan exact measurement not knowing how thick the a finish has been put ontherod. Which brings up a question, how much change on stress curves does.002to .003 anywhere but in the tip area of a rod?Dell Coppock,"IN THE GREAT NORTHWEST"http://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail flyfisher@nextdim.com-----Original Message----- Subject: Micing tapers Some questions for those of you who have done this before or who haveestablished, in your opinion, acceptable techniques. If you mic three flats and the readings are .124-.126-.126, would youassume the one flat was shy .002, or would you average them andconsiderthat station to be .125? I miced out a couple of rods today. I didn't care for the way the anvilon my caliper treated the varnish. Do any of you use a cloth orsomething to protect rods you are micing? I wouldn't want to damage arod someone was kind enough to let me measure. In measuring in areas where there is thread or a ferrule do youextrapolate the figure from the previous measurement? Example: Tipmeasurement at one inch down mic's at .082, the five inch measurementis.095, or an average, rounding up, of .003 per inch. Tip measurement atextreme is .079. Any input will be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu May 7 18:19:55 1998 Subject: Personal to John Cooper John, I sent you a couple of emails - did you receive them? If you did, canyou email a reply ASAP? Thanks, Don BurnsFlyfisher@cmix.com PS - Sorry for the bandwidth from allen@chem.eng.usyd.edu.au Thu May 7 18:21:15 1998 (5.65v3.2/1.1.10.5/24Jul97-0344PM) Subject: more help regards finishes Many thanks to all who replied to my original enquiry Now I have more questions The original cane blank is still in remarkably good condition for its ageno splitting or discoloration etc. And it still seems to have a very thinsmooth coating of some kind over the total length of the blank (this coating is evenpresent under the guide feet) What I am keen to find out is this, is this coating just the natural sheenpresent on good quality cane or could it be some other added coating ofsome kind.If it is another coating should it be keyed so as to take the finishingcoat of spar varnish better or should I leave it well enough alone. And does spar varnish take to Nylon or NCP thread properly because theoriginal colours that were on the rod are not readily available in silkhere in Australia. Thanks Allen Glover from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu May 7 18:21:59 1998 Subject: RE: Micing Tapers RO>Steve, RO>You could put a layer of masking tape over each of the jaws of the mic,RO>then shut it down, note the measurement and subtract this amount from eachRO>of your measurements as you go. RO>Chris McDowell Mac, On a dial caliper you can just rotate the dial to re-zero. Don B. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu May 7 18:31:09 1998 Subject: Heddon parts Don,was your offer for $20.00 including shipping or plus shipping.bret from rclarke@eou.edu Thu May 7 18:40:12 1998 Subject: Re: more help regards finishes Allen, I think you are looking at the sheen. you get the same thing whenyou rub two pieces of cane together. Just my .02 Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Allen Glover Subject: more help regards finishesDate: Thursday, May 07, 1998 4:23 PM Many thanks to all who replied to my original enquiry Now I have more questions The original cane blank is still in remarkably good condition for its ageno splitting or discoloration etc. And it still seems to have a very thinsmooth coating of some kind over the total length of the blank (this coating is evenpresent under the guide feet) What I am keen to find out is this, is this coating just the naturalsheenpresent on good quality cane or could it be some other added coating ofsome kind.If it is another coating should it be keyed so as to take the finishingcoat of spar varnish better or should I leave it well enough alone. And does spar varnish take to Nylon or NCP thread properly because theoriginal colours that were on the rod are not readily available in silkhere in Australia. Thanks Allen Glover from channer@hubwest.com Thu May 7 18:46:39 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A8482620100; Thu, 07 May 1998 17:48:24 MDT Subject: Re: binder for amateurs At 09:07 AM 5/7/98 EDT, you wrote: In a message dated 5/7/98 9:00:48 AM, you wrote: if so, do you take it off as you bind? How long is the tubing the rod goesthru?>> John - The pulleys are what is sold around here as a standard machinepulleywith a 5/8" bore. The tube is about 6", but not critical. The tube for thedrive pulley is just long enough to butt into the other tube, and to keep it from wiggling I drilled and through bolted it in addition to the mountingstraps. I used my lathe to cut a small groove for the retaining rings, butthis could also be done with a hacksaw if you mark the places where theteethof the retaining ring will contact. You should find everything but thethreadtensioner at the hardware store.I do take off the tape, there is just enough room to do this in front of thetube, but it may be easier to do it as the section enters the back of thetube. If I had it to do again, I would make the plywood box no longer thanthetube to make this a bit easier. The fit between the tube and the pulleytendsto be tight, try a couple pieces to see if you can to get a loose fit,otherwise you may have to sand a bit off the tube or ream out the pulley. Tom;Thanks for all the info and the great looking binder, I am going to buildit a.s.a.p.. John Channer from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Thu May 7 18:51:05 1998 post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with ESMTP id AAA02334 for; Fri, 8 May 1998 00:53:22 +0100 Subject: Re: Personal to John Cooper Don~SORRY~No~keyboad~so~struggling~Colour~Gudebrod~00~5382˜Leonard~out~on~appro˜More~when~have~k/b~Very~best~John~~ ----------From: flyfisher@cmix.com Subject: Personal to John CooperDate: 07 May 1998 23:18 John, I sent you a couple of emails - did you receive them? If you did, canyou email a reply ASAP? Thanks, Don BurnsFlyfisher@cmix.com PS - Sorry for the bandwidth from rcurry@top.monad.net Thu May 7 19:05:39 1998 Subject: Re: My first bamboo casting experience Dan,Thanks for the kind words.Best regards.Reed from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu May 7 19:20:21 1998 Subject: Re: Personal to John Cooper RO>Don~SORRY~No~keyboad~so~struggling~Colour~Gudebrod~00~5382˜RO>Leonard~out~on~appro˜More~when~have~k/b~Very~best~John~~ Full reply posted off-list. But I hope it wasn't a rare single-malt thattook out the keyboard John. Don Burns from Fallcreek9@aol.com Thu May 7 19:45:10 1998 Subject: Re: Weakening a rod Terry - Re: Granger reel seat. Thanks for the effort.Regards,Richard from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu May 7 19:47:32 1998 Subject: RE:more help regards finishes RO>The original cane blank is still in remarkably good condition for its ageRO>no splitting or discoloration etc. And it still seems to have a very thinRO>smooth coating of some kind over the total length of the blank (thiscoatingis evenRO>present under the guide feet) Allen, You might have a "impregnated" cane rod - a resin is baked into thecane. Several mfg. did this. But all cane has a somewhat hard surface,nothing like a soft wood. (pine) RO>What I am keen to find out is this, is this coating just the naturalsheenRO>present on good quality cane or could it be some other added coating ofRO>some kind.RO>If it is another coating should it be keyed so as to take the finishingRO>coat of spar varnish better or should I leave it well enough alone. RO>And does spar varnish take to Nylon or NCP thread properly because theRO>original colours that were on the rod are not readily available in silkRO>here in Australia. You might want to talk to Tony Young - he's out in Perth and has a canerod web site too. Maybe he has or can get you the proper thread. Nylonwould work but go with smaller O.D. thread because it won't flatten outlike silk. NCP thread would really suck, IMHO. URL: http://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Angler's Workshop in Washington State (USA) sells lots of colors of silkthread and should be able to ship a light-wt package for a reasonablefee. Ask for the U.S. mails's international Priority Mail shipping fee.(I think a spool or two of thread would fit inside this cardboardshipping pouch) url: http://www.anglersworkshop.com/ Good luck, Don Burns from hokkaido_flyfisher@yahoo.com Thu May 7 20:30:19 1998 Subject: Re: Apprenticeship in Japan .... Sasano visit Dear Naohisa, It is great to see that we share a passion forthe good things in life ... FF@ and therodmakers. Thank you the email about Mr. Bando ... I read,well, I do not actually "read" Furai no Zasshibecause my knowledge of kanji is still veryLIMITED, but, I love the pictures. Right now, I am learning how to make a bamboorod with Hoshihara-sensei in Sapporo. He isan amateur builder for the last ten years ...what a great teacher! Tomorrow I go with a friend of Hoshihara-sensei,Sato-sensei to a secret point in southern Hokkaido.More news later ... Please write if you have some good/even bad newsto share. Cheers, Christian -Naohisa Kanda wrote:Hi Chris! What a surprise. Maybe Yuki who visited Mr. Wayne is not Sasano but Mr. Yukinari Bando who lives in Chicago. Yuki is writing articles about bamboo rod builders in USA which you can read in the magazine called "Furai no zasshi" publishedin Japan. The latest article was about Mr. Glenn Bracket of the Winston. Naohisa==Mr. Christian THALACKERc/o Asaina Michiko-san Otaru University of CommerceMatsugae 2-6-30 Otaru International Center047- 0022 Hokkaido JAPAN Midori 3-5-21 Otaru047 Hokkaido JAPAN Email: Hokkaido_Flyfisher@yahoo.comHompepage: http://members.tripod.com/~Nijimasu/O.html_________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu May 7 20:33:27 1998 (205.236.248.91) Subject: Re: coatings for splitcane rods I would not touch tung oil, it polymerizes by reacting with oxygen in theairand if the air is humid it will attract moisture.I am talking from experience not just parroting something I have read.Terry CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: Allen, A couple of other suggestions. Pre-coat the rod with a tung oil or otherthin penetrating varnish finish prior to wrapping and finishing if dipping.Be sure any open seams are thoroughly sealed to prevent air bubbles andbleeds. If you plan to color preserve the wraps and are using non-blacksilk then start with a highly thinned coat of preserver, then a couplecoats of full strength followed by a coat or two of polyurethane finishtoseal and dry quickly. If you use a dip method and spar varnish allow thepreserved wraps to dry thoroughly (several days) before dipping. Heattheroom room or the varnish tank up and don't hesitate to thin the sparvarnish as much as about 12% and withdraw at about 3" to 4" per minute.I've found that a slower rate results in more spar varnish bleeds I guessbecause of the time and pressure of being in the tube. Although I thinkit's accurate for old rods spar varnish drives me wacko sometimes (ashortdrive) with it's propensity to bleed into the wraps and darken the color. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu May 7 21:03:32 1998 (205.236.248.91) Subject: Re: Apprenticeship in Japan .... Sasano visit I have at least 2 old Japanese cane rods, I hope your tutors never made'em!Terry Christian THALACKER wrote: Dear Naohisa, It is great to see that we share a passion forthe good things in life ... FF@ and therodmakers. Thank you the email about Mr. Bando ... I read,well, I do not actually "read" Furai no Zasshibecause my knowledge of kanji is still veryLIMITED, but, I love the pictures. Right now, I am learning how to make a bamboorod with Hoshihara-sensei in Sapporo. He isan amateur builder for the last ten years ...what a great teacher! Tomorrow I go with a friend of Hoshihara-sensei,Sato-sensei to a secret point in southern Hokkaido.More news later ... Please write if you have some good/even bad newsto share. Cheers, Christian -Naohisa Kanda wrote:Hi Chris! What a surprise. Maybe Yuki who visited Mr. Wayne is not Sasanobut Mr. Yukinari Bando who lives in Chicago.Yuki is writing articles about bamboo rodbuilders in USA which you can read in themagazine called "Furai no zasshi" publishedin Japan. The latest article was about Mr.Glenn Bracket of the Winston. Naohisa==Mr. Christian THALACKERc/o Asaina Michiko-san Otaru University of CommerceMatsugae 2-6-30 Otaru International Center047- 0022 Hokkaido JAPAN Midori 3-5-21 Otaru047 Hokkaido JAPANEmail: Hokkaido_Flyfisher@yahoo.comHompepage: http://members.tripod.com/~Nijimasu/O.html_________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Thu May 7 21:35:09 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.1); Thu,7May 1998 22:36:59 -0400 Subject: 8' 4wt I have not had a chance to run some of you recent tapers through hexrod, however, I am curious how you would classify your 8' 4wt. Dx, Px, Para. It looks like a Dx with a great roll cast. Take care... Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from sats@gte.net Thu May 7 21:47:37 1998 Subject: Re: Weakening a rod VAA14480 I'd like to address this a in a little different order then the original post,I'll try not to "Edit" to the point of changing the meaning. I also don't like the idea of wrecking a 9' rod to make a short one. I agree. If I get a complete rod I'll try to restore it rather then use it forparts. I've always used mismatched tips and mids from the bone pile, or I've ordered a set of tips from one of the catalogs and mated them with an orphan mid section. That's basically what I'm doing. The only "complete" rod I've ever changedwasan 8ft 3in no name, that had been almost completely re-done. New guides,newferrules and (you guessed it.) The whole rod had been shortened to makeup fora broken tip section (on the Male ferrule end.) I suspect it was made inJapanafter the war. The rest of the stuff I've got is parts and pieces. I agree that you must have a plan before you start sanding. When I sit a 6' rod next to a mid tip from a 9' it is very clear even without the dial caliper that the majority of the work is in the top half of the tip section. This also seems like the most dangerous part to mess with. The mid is very close to the butt of the 6' in these two rods, but the tip is larger at the upper end although pretty close on the lower half. The 9' rod is the standard Heddon made 7/8 wt.? or so. The tip is the most likely part of the whole rod to have power fibers alltheway through it. Also a change of .007 here is a change of ~10% That'sfairlydramatic. As you move down the rod and the cross section becomes larger,thepossibility of getting into "bad" cane becomes more real because a changeof.007 here is a lot smaller change in the taper. What is also true with these mid/tip rods is that if you get the rod in the ballpark and then test cast it and work a little more until you have an action that is acceptable, you're done. I'll agree and disagree. I've been experimenting with 'deflection' Deflection measures the "flex" in a completed rod, the same way hexrodmeasuresstress curves in a hypothetical (or actual) rod Deflection actuallymeasureswhat Hex more or less states. secure a rod horizontally at any givenpoint,move so far toward the tip from that point and put a known weight on therod andthe rod will "flex" so far. The "secret" is that if you graph deflection, say at every 5 inches, any tworods that have the same deflection graph will cast alike, NO MATTER WHATTHEY'REMADE OF, or what their dimensions are. In other words if you could takethedeflection of a graphite rod and build a bamboo rod with the samedeflectionthe casting properties would be about the same. There are, some things that do cause a difference. Weight, is one of them. Abamboo rod with the same deflection as a graphite rod will be heavier Besides, who want's to cast graphite? ? They won't likely feel like a 6' rod made from raw materials and an exact taper, but they're a starting point for developing the interest further for some. That they are. They are also (if well done) a way to put 'entry level'bambooon the market. The first one cost a couple of hundred, the next one is anewone from one of the members of the list. Terry K. --Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from hokkaido_flyfisher@yahoo.com Thu May 7 22:06:48 1998 Subject: Re: Apprenticeship in Japan .... Sasano visit Terry, How old were you when you bought 'em? ;-) Christian ---Terence Ackland wrote: I have at least 2 old Japanese cane rods, I hope your tutors nevermade'em!Terry==Mr. Christian THALACKERc/o Asaina Michiko-san Otaru University of CommerceMatsugae 2-6-30 Otaru International Center047-0022 Hokkaido JAPAN Midori 3-5-21 Otaru047 Hokkaido JAPAN Email: Hokkaido_Flyfisher@yahoo.comHompepage: http://members.tripod.com/~Nijimasu/O.html_________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from stpete@netten.net Fri May 8 00:17:09 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA03505 for Subject: Re: Apprenticeship in Japan .... Sasano visit Touche! Christian THALACKER wrote: Terry, How old were you when you bought 'em? ;-) Christian ---Terence Ackland wrote: I have at least 2 old Japanese cane rods, I hope your tutors nevermade'em!Terry==Mr. Christian THALACKERc/o Asaina Michiko-san Otaru University of CommerceMatsugae 2-6-30 Otaru International Center047-0022 Hokkaido JAPAN Midori 3-5-21 Otaru047 Hokkaido JAPANEmail: Hokkaido_Flyfisher@yahoo.comHompepage: http://members.tripod.com/~Nijimasu/O.html_________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from tbeckfam@pacbell.net Fri May 8 00:23:05 1998 mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id WAA17061 for Subject: Re: New source for bamboo? C.J. Wohlford wrote: Noticed it was in the LA area. Maybe someone would be kind enough tostop by and check it out for the list? Progress Trading Co.663 Brea Canyon Rd. Suite 2Walnut, California91789- 3045Phone: 909-869-9244Fax: 909-869-9344 gespliesst@bluewin.ch wrote: Dear friends! Today i`ve seen a new adress (source?) for tonkin on the www:http://www.progresstrading.com/ The sell some cheap tonkin, think it`s not the real stuff we need,but mabye a cheap source for beginners for testing the art ofrodmaking?! Regards Stefan/Switzerland I live pretty close to them and can swing by and check it out. Buttheir web site says they sell one inch stock, probably for makingfurniture. Why would anyone want to make furniture from a material thatwas CLEARLY created for making fishing rods?Traver Becker from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri May 8 00:48:54 1998 mtigwc05.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA12072 Subject: Re: Re:Binder for Amateurs I am having the same problem with the file named "binder". It is not aJPG, GIF, TIF,PCX, or even a WMF (according to both Hijaak and Photoshop). What is it? George Bourke ----------From: mcoy@sduhsd.k12.ca.us Subject: Re:Binder for AmateursDate: Thursday, May 07, 1998 9:52 AM I would love to view this attachment, but it will not come up. I addedthe jpgextension without success. Can you please repost or send it to medirectly. mcoy@sduhsd.k12.ca.us ____________________Reply Separator____________________Subject: Binder for AmateursAuthor: Date: 5/6/98 3:58 PM The attachment is a JPEG photo of a binder.It has always seemed to me that any binder I tried was a bit tricky toset upand adjust. I guess it's OK if you make a lot of rods and get the feel things by using them all the time. Half the time I don't even bother, andbind Here is a binder that:Can be built with hardware store parts.Is easy to adjust and intuitive to use.Is portable.It consists of two 6" pulleys mounted on !/2" ID, 5/8" OD copper watertube. A5/8" retaining ring holds each in place. The copper tube is mounted totheplywood frame with pipe hanging straps. The drive pulley has a length of"V"belt contact cemented in it's groove, in effect a rubber tire. It alsohas ahandle mounted, so it can be cranked by the user.The binder pulley has a spool of thread, a thread tensioner, and a threadguide mounted on it's face. In front of the binder pulley, on it's shaftis a5/8" ID wire compression spring, with a washer on each end. This pushesthebinder pulley back into the drive pulley, creating the friction thatallowsthe machine to work. The machine is clamped to your bench.In use, the rod section is fed through the middle of the binder pulleyfromthe back. After attaching the thread, you slowly pull the section throughfromthe front with your left hand. You crank in one direction with your righthand direction for the second wrap. I thought I might need a brake on thedrivewheel so that I could stop and change hand positions without losingtension,but there is enough drag built in that it was not necessary. from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Fri May 8 02:19:25 1998 ; Fri, 8 May 1998 19:19:02 +1200 Subject: Re:Binder for Amateurs George , I had the same problem but followed Tonys advise and used Netscape toviewthe picture .. and well worth it . I went to Netscape .. to "file" .. to"open file" .. found the "binder" subdirectory in Eudora .. pushed enter ..and had the picture in front of me .. regards from another who cannot use the computor without my teenageson toinstruct iank At 10:30 PM 7/05/98 -0700, you wrote:I am having the same problem with the file named "binder". It is not aJPG, GIF, TIF,PCX, or even a WMF (according to both Hijaak and Photoshop). What is it? George Bourke ----------From: mcoy@sduhsd.k12.ca.us Subject: Re:Binder for AmateursDate: Thursday, May 07, 1998 9:52 AM I would love to view this attachment, but it will not come up. I addedthe jpgextension without success. Can you please repost or send it to medirectly. mcoy@sduhsd.k12.ca.us ____________________Reply Separator____________________Subject: Binder for AmateursAuthor: Date: 5/6/98 3:58 PM The attachment is a JPEG photo of a binder.It has always seemed to me that any binder I tried was a bit tricky toset upand adjust. I guess it's OK if you make a lot of rods and get the feel things by using them all the time. Half the time I don't even bother, andbind Here is a binder that:Can be built with hardware store parts.Is easy to adjust and intuitive to use.Is portable.It consists of two 6" pulleys mounted on !/2" ID, 5/8" OD copper watertube. A5/8" retaining ring holds each in place. The copper tube is mounted totheplywood frame with pipe hanging straps. The drive pulley has a lengthof"V"belt contact cemented in it's groove, in effect a rubber tire. It alsohas ahandle mounted, so it can be cranked by the user.The binder pulley has a spool of thread, a thread tensioner, and a threadguide mounted on it's face. In front of the binder pulley, on it's shaftis a5/8" ID wire compression spring, with a washer on each end. Thispushesthebinder pulley back into the drive pulley, creating the friction thatallowsthe machine to work. The machine is clamped to your bench.In use, the rod section is fed through the middle of the binder pulleyfromthe back. After attaching the thread, you slowly pull the section throughfromthe front with your left hand. You crank in one direction with your righthand direction for the second wrap. I thought I might need a brake on thedrivewheel so that I could stop and change hand positions without losingtension,but there is enough drag built in that it was not necessary. Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email iank@nelson.planet.org.nz from destinycon@mindspring.com Fri May 8 08:16:05 1998 Subject: Re: New source for bamboo? At 10:21 PM 5/7/98 -0700, you wrote: I live pretty close to them and can swing by and check it out. Buttheir web site says they sell one inch stock, probably for makingfurniture. Why would anyone want to make furniture from a material thatwas CLEARLY created for making fishing rods?Traver Becker Traver,I know you were being facetious when you said this but it gives meopportunity to say it is nice seeing Thomas Penrose has found a new home pictures are also there and according to Andy at least 99% of all tonkin isused for items other that rods (wish I owned the bench in the picture).BTW if you haven't visited his web site it is very interesting andinformative (another good source for bamboo info is Marden's "The AnglersBamboo"). T. Penrose's link is from Jerry's page then to his new site.Thank you Thomas for keeping it up and running.Gary H. from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri May 8 08:56:37 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: FW: bamboo milling machine well in keeping with your tradition of being a curmudgeon, you obviouslydon't know what you are talking about in relation to the Morgan mill. IDID use it and it's safe to say that after pushing a plane PROFESSIONALY than or easier and having made my first rod 30 years ago I know how itis to plane bamboo and my experience was that it was no harder thanplaning one side of a strip with a block plane. I did not measure theangle of the carbide cutters in the mill but I know that it is mucheasier to scrape than push a wedge through any material, it takesconsiderably less force to scrape something than to plane it.It's heckof a lot easier to plane a bamboo strip than to spend 8 hours a day 5days a week and 3 weeks carving the back of a upright bass made of curlymaple into compound curves in all direction. Both Tom Morgan and PerBrandin said that you don't have to mill the strips wet, they did both awet one and a dry one in front of us, but the wet one removes materialeasier and both ways it went through the nodes with ease and no divots.If making the strips when wet you have to compensate for shrinkage orlet the dry before final passes. You are making the assumption thateveryone has the experience to make a two tip blank in a day and thatmakes the guys who are just starting out with plane feel like they arenimnals for not being able to do it. The Morgan mill is a fool proof way is used, the first time out. The Milward mill does the same thing onlyit use a router moter instead of pushing two carbide scrapers across thematerial. The cutter went through the bamboo, both sides at the sametime, with the same force that a block plane, and may be less force,goes through one side of bamboo strip. ----------From: Terence Ackland[SMTP:hexagon@odyssee.net] Sent: Thursday, May 07, 1998 2:08 PM Subject: Re: FW: bamboo milling machine Carbide cutters cannot stand the rake angles that that can be put oncarbonsteel plane blades, so more force is required to cut, add to this youarecutting two sides at once. It does not sound right to me at all. Whathappens to your tolerances once the strips have dried out?I would try it out before I shelled out any cash. Hand planing is handplaning and whether you pull or push, there is no mechanical advantageasfar as I can see.Practice with a hand plane and split accurately and anyone can knockout atwo tip blank in a day.Terry from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri May 8 08:58:08 1998 Subject: Re:Binder for Amateurs George - It left here as a JPG, but strange things seem to happen out there.When I downloaded it myself to check it out, AOL had changed it to a textfile, and all I got was a page of code. I use a Mac, and there is a sharewareutility called JPEG view, which will change this sort of thing back to aJPGfile. I don't know if there is anything comprable for a PC. Maybe someoneelsecan help with that. Most of the people who were having a problem seemedto beable to open it through Netscape. from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri May 8 09:08:49 1998 (5.0.1458.49) to add to a previous post musical instrument are carved with planes andit's a hell of a lot easier to push a plane through bamboo than to pushone through curly maple and also they are carved to tolerances of athousand of a inch. The man who taught me taught me how to sharpen aplane sharp enough and to plane to boards good enough that when you putthe two boards together, planed surface to plane surface, and picked upthe top board that the bottom board came with it. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri May 8 09:09:32 1998 Subject: Re: Re:Binder for Amateurs Guys,Usually AOHEll and my Mac give me a hard time downloading but I got thisthingno problem. I usually get binary code but not this time I got the wholepicture, go figure.Bret from sleach@plessey.com Fri May 8 09:16:23 1998 user@gauntlet.plessey.co.za QAA08722 for ; Fri, 8 May 1998 16:15:33+0200 (SAT) firewall.plessey.co.zavia smap (3.2) Subject: RE: FW: bamboo milling machine Just to put the increased angle (61.5 degrees) to into some perspective. Ifyou are making a rod with a butt end of .260" the maximum gap betweenadjacent strips will be less than 4 thou (0.1mm in real units) and the"hole" down the middle will be about 3 thou (0.08 mm). This assumestherewill be no deformation of the strips (which will decrease this) when youbind/glue them. IT would be interesting to hear if any of the hand planers use this trickand, if so, how they made their forms. Just my 0.02 worth (South African which is worth a lot less than 0.02 US) Steve Leach -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: FW: bamboo milling machine Increasing the angle to hide the glue line is an OLD woodworker's trick.The price you pay is a greater mass of glue inside the joint. In this case,substituting glue for bamboo. This will add to the variation in action dueto glue. A while back, Wayne C. reminded us to pay attention to detail,particularly at the end of each step. Garrison rejected this trick and eventhinned his glue to get closer approximation of the strips and betterpenetration of the glue.Just a beginner's opinion.Steve Weiss from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri May 8 09:18:43 1998 Subject: Re: Patrick,I made my rough in forms out of curly maple from a big slab I had layingaround for gunstocks and you are right when I hit the maple with the planeIdon't do anything but slide by ,no shavings. I have some curly maple I amworking on in some stocks right now that surforms , files and knives haveahard time cutting into. You're right bamboo cuts alot easier than curlymaple.BretP.S. Alot of times I have tapped maple for bolts to see how durable it isforholding a thread and some of it has been unscrewed and rescrewedtogether withno ill effects on the threads. from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri May 8 09:41:59 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: we grooved the back side of our plane blades to break up the cuttingedge into 1/8" long segments and found it not only allowed the blade togo through the maple easier but you can go in any direction, with thegrain-across the grain and against the grain, without taking any divots.You will find that maple will hold the threads easier if after you tapthem you put a couple drops of watery super glue down each tapped hole,it makes the treads almost as hard a metal. We made all of our clamps of a lot of them), and found the super glue greatly increased thedurability of the threads on the rod and the nut. ----------From: Grhghlndr[SMTP:Grhghlndr@aol.com] Sent: Friday, May 08, 1998 7:18 AM Subject: Re: Patrick,I made my rough in forms out of curly maple from a big slab I hadlayingaround for gunstocks and you are right when I hit the maple with theplane Idon't do anything but slide by ,no shavings. I have some curly mapleI amworking on in some stocks right now that surforms , files and kniveshave ahard time cutting into. You're right bamboo cuts alot easier thancurlymaple.BretP.S. Alot of times I have tapped maple for bolts to see how durable itis forholding a thread and some of it has been unscrewed and rescrewedtogether withno ill effects on the threads. from destinycon@mindspring.com Fri May 8 09:43:27 1998 Subject: Re:Binder for Amateurs I use windows 95 and opened it with imagevu....& LVIEWPRO-(this is one ofmy E-mail add-ons). Hope it helps.Gary H. At 09:57 AM 5/8/98 EDT, you wrote:George - It left here as a JPG, but strange things seem to happen outthere.When I downloaded it myself to check it out, AOL had changed it to a textfile, and all I got was a page of code. I use a Mac, and there is asharewareutility called JPEG view, which will change this sort of thing back to aJPGfile. I don't know if there is anything comprable for a PC. Maybe someoneelsecan help with that. Most of the people who were having a problem seemedto beable to open it through Netscape. from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Fri May 8 10:09:56 1998 post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with ESMTP id QAA28938 for; Fri, 8 May 1998 16:12:13 +0100 Subject: Re: Wayne's 7' #4 I'm a restorer, not a rod maker - although I'll get to it one day. But ----all the euphoric posts about Wayne's 7' #4 and the similar Sir Darryl twoferrule equivalent, give me the sort of gut feeling I recognise from wayback as an essential need. Oh dear: expensive. I'm feeling too broke to order one. I just wonder though - it's a globaleconomy: would anyone care to make up a bare blank set for a trade ofsomesort. I can finish, and install my own fittings. John Cooper (England) from rclarke@eou.edu Fri May 8 10:25:38 1998 Subject: Re: Re:Binder for Amateurs Tom, it worked for me as well with Netscape. Very cool! I am intrigued. Looks like it would be fairly simple to build. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: TSmithwick Subject: Re:Binder for AmateursDate: Friday, May 08, 1998 6:57 AM George - It left here as a JPG, but strange things seem to happen outthere.When I downloaded it myself to check it out, AOL had changed it to a textfile, and all I got was a page of code. I use a Mac, and there is asharewareutility called JPEG view, which will change this sort of thing back to aJPGfile. I don't know if there is anything comprable for a PC. Maybe someoneelsecan help with that. Most of the people who were having a problem seemedto beable to open it through Netscape. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri May 8 10:38:38 1998 Fri, 8 May 1998 23:37:11 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re:Binder for Amateurs On Fri, 8 May 1998, TSmithwick wrote: George - It left here as a JPG, but strange things seem to happen outthere.When I downloaded it myself to check it out, AOL had changed it to a textfile, and all I got was a page of code. I use a Mac, and there is asharewareutility called JPEG view, which will change this sort of thing back to aJPGfile. I don't know if there is anything comprable for a PC. Maybe someoneelsecan help with that. Most of the people who were having a problem seemedto beable to open it through Netscape. Netscape or any other browser aught to work as almost all the purdypictures you see in the WWW are .jpg or .gif files.You may have for some reason had the extension striped and this will need to be replaced or you may have had Toms problem or you may not belooking in the right place for the file.If you still can't get it to work because you don't have a browser??? try looking in YAHOO for a file called LVIEW. I think it's free in the 16 bit ver (Windoze 3.x) and it works fine for almost all graphics files.I don't know the address but it's not too hard to find. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from SalarFly@aol.com Fri May 8 11:02:23 1998 Subject: Re: Binder for Amateurs In a message dated 5/8/98 7:05:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time,TSmithwick@aol.comwrites: George - It left here as a JPG, but strange things seem to happen outthere.When I downloaded it myself to check it out, AOL had changed it to atextfile, and all I got was a page of code. I use a Mac, and there is asharewareutility called JPEG view, which will change this sort of thing back to aJPGfile. I don't know if there is anything comprable for a PC. Maybe someoneelsecan help with that. Most of the people who were having a problemseemed tobeable to open it through Netscape. In a previous life (most of the "oldtimers" on this list knew me back then)I was an email adminstrator for a large oil company, and I had to dealwith problems like this all the time. I cringed when I saw the attachmentcome across in Tom's message because I knew a lot of people weregoing to have problems. Basically what is happening is this. Only text can be sent across theinternet. Attachments have to be encoded into a text stream and sent.This is usually done transparently to the sender by the email softwarehe is using, so he doesn't know that it was done. The receiving system has to be able to recognize that a block of text in the message is an attachment and decode it. There are so many different systems out on the internet that not allof them are going to be able to recognize the encoding scheme used.Realize that we have people with PCs, Macs, Unix workstations, andprobably some out there still using dumb terminals connected to IBM Mainframes. Anybody remember PROFS? If we want to continue to send pictures through this list server,and I for one don't object, we should warn everyone there isa picture attached in the subject line. For this picture I would'veused:Binder for Amateurs (Picture Attached)as a subject line. That way people who know they can't recieveattachments won't get a megabyte of seemingly garbage characters. Also, be aware that downloading attachments can be a way of spreadingviruses. Be sure you trust the person sending an attachment beforeyou download it, and be sure to check it with a virus checker beforeyou execute or use it. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Fri May 8 11:07:05 1998 Subject: Re: Wayne's 7' #4 In a message dated 5/8/98 8:15:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time,jcooper@interalpha.co.uk writes: I'm a restorer, not a rod maker - although I'll get to it one day. But ----all the euphoric posts about Wayne's 7' #4 and the similar Sir Darryltwoferrule equivalent, give me the sort of gut feeling I recognise from wayback as an essential need. Oh dear: expensive. The Cattanach 7' 4DT is the Sir Darryl Favorite. Wayne renamed itsince I reccommend it so highly. I'll make you one. After all I haveto do something for the noble Englishman who knighted me. Contactme off list, and we'll arrange something. Darryl from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Fri May 8 11:20:54 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA107454296; Fri, 8 May 1998 09:18:16 -0700 Subject: Re: coatings for splitcane rods I would not touch tung oil, it polymerizes by reacting with oxygen in the airand if the air is humid it will attract moisture.I am talking from experience not just parroting something I have read.Terry Thanks for clarifying that Terry. I've not used Tung Oil myself, only recognized it as a thin finish that can be wiped on. There are many other products on the shelves out there that will serve the purpose of sealing before dipping the rod section in spar varnish for the final coating. If you locate a sealing product at your hardware store Allen you could post the brand and type to the list and get feedback from those that have used that particular product and know about such things as polymerization. Chris McDowell from thramer@presys.com Fri May 8 11:33:18 1998 0000 Subject: Re: 8' 4wt Jon Lintvet wrote: I have not had a chance to run some of you recent tapers throughhexrod, however, I am curious how you would classify your 8' 4wt.Dx, Px, Para. It looks like a Dx with a great roll cast. Takecare... Jon Lintvet12B College CircleIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277- 9781www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/Jon,The 8' 4wt that is on the rodmakers webpage? It is a Px taper. A.J.thramer from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri May 8 11:33:42 1998 Subject: Empire brand rods? All, Does anyone have information on a brand of rods named "Empire Tackle"?Trade rod brand? I just purchased a "Nymph" model rod made by (for?) them and would likeany feedback. Thanks, Don Burns from mcoy@sduhsd.k12.ca.us Fri May 8 11:45:00 1998 R8.00.00) Subject: Binder Pics I would love to see the binder photos. BUT...It lost something along theway. Yes I have added the jpg extension and tried several pieces of softwarethatsupport jpeg (including netscape), but no image. My e-mail software isMIMEcompliant. Will one of you kind souls, who has successfully viewed thisimageon a PC, please send it to me off list with the proper file extension? Mick mcoy@sduhsd.k12.ca.us from saweiss@flash.net Fri May 8 11:48:42 1998 Subject: Re: FW: bamboo milling machine -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: FW: bamboo milling machine Just to put the increased angle (61.5 degrees) to into some perspective.Ifyou are making a rod with a butt end of .260" the maximum gap betweenadjacent strips will be less than 4 thou (0.1mm in real units) and the"hole" down the middle will be about 3 thou (0.08 mm). This assumestherewill be no deformation of the strips (which will decrease this) when youbind/glue them. IT would be interesting to hear if any of the hand planers use this trickand, if so, how they made their forms. Just my 0.02 worth (South African which is worth a lot less than 0.02US) Steve Leach -----Original Message-----From: DR. STEVEN A. WEISS [SMTP:saweiss@flash.net]Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 1998 8:18 PM Subject: Re: FW: bamboo milling machine Increasing the angle to hide the glue line is an OLD woodworker's trick.The price you pay is a greater mass of glue inside the joint. In thiscase,substituting glue for bamboo. This will add to the variation in action dueto glue. A while back, Wayne C. reminded us to pay attention to detail,particularly at the end of each step. Garrison rejected this trick and eventhinned his glue to get closer approximation of the strips and betterpenetration of the glue.Just a beginner's opinion.Steve Weiss Multiplied times six = .024" filled with glue. It seems that it becomes agreater percentage of the rod as the sections get thinner, but someonewould have to calculate some cross-sectional percentages. from eestlow@srminc.com Fri May 8 11:57:57 1998 1997)) id862565FE.005C7BF0 ; Fri, 8 May 1998 11:50:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Binder Pics Me, too. My e-mail software is Lotus Notes and I've tried to read the filewith Internet Explorer and got the text file just as someone else did. I'vesuccessfully read .jpg files before with this combo. Not sure whathappenedthis time. Since the pix are causing such a commotion, I'd like to see whatthe fuss is about. -Ed mcoy@sduhsd.k12.ca.us on 05/08/98 12:34:19 PM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Binder Pics I would love to see the binder photos. BUT...It lost something along theway.Yes I have added the jpg extension and tried several pieces of softwarethatsupport jpeg (including netscape), but no image. My e-mail software isMIMEcompliant. Will one of you kind souls, who has successfully viewed thisimageon a PC, please send it to me off list with the proper file extension?Mickmcoy@sduhsd.k12.ca.us from saweiss@flash.net Fri May 8 12:07:40 1998 Subject: taper designations A.J.,What are the meanings of your "Dx, Px" designations?Steve from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri May 8 12:22:11 1998 Subject: Re: Pictures ( Was Binder for Amateurs) Darryl - Thanks for the lucid explanation. I don't have your background, buthave learned just enough to be dangerous, apparently. I like the idea of pictures to illustrate some of the things we talk about,but as you point out, there are problems. Would it be possible to have somesort of photo bulletin board on the rodmakers page where something likethiscould be accessed easily by all? I'm not talking about a permanent gallery,just a place where something of interest could be posted for a shortperiod. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri May 8 12:43:58 1998 Subject: Re: Re: coatings for splitcane rods I have to agree with Terry- 5 years ago I built a 71/2' for a 5 that wasfairly fast in its action-it became one of my favorites. I had coated itwitha tung oil finish. It's action has slowed considerably and I attribute this tomoisture reentry. I intend to leave it in the oven for 24 hrs. at 100 deg. F.and dip it in varnish if I ever get time . I'll let the list know if it works.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri May 8 12:44:17 1998 Subject: Re: RE: FW: bamboo milling machine Steve,I've been trying this free hand on several of my latest rods with somesuccess-I set the taper shallower than usual and mic a LOT and so far itseemsto work.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri May 8 12:56:01 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Binder Pics Me too-I keep getting a window on my Mac that says it can't find theapplication that made it-maybe I need some instruction-I didn't know howtoturn the d__n thing on 'til 2 years ago.Hank. from SalarFly@aol.com Fri May 8 13:02:08 1998 Subject: Re: Pictures ( Was Binder for Amateurs) In a message dated 5/8/98 10:29:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time,TSmithwick@aol.com writes: Would it be possible to have somesort of photo bulletin board on the rodmakers page where something likethiscould be accessed easily by all? I'm not talking about a permanentgallery,just a place where something of interest could be posted for a shortperiod. Yes, you can. Since you use AOL, you have 2 Mb per screen name direct people where to view them.Darryl from anglport@con2.com Fri May 8 13:50:51 1998 Subject: Re:Binder for Amateurs George,I don't know if what you tried was exactly what I did but I went into theEudora Lite "Attachments" subfile in File Manager, found the file named"binder", and added a ".jpg" to the end of the file name, double-clicked it,and the thing popped to life. (I tried adding the jpg to the actual e- mailmessage and it had no effect.) Maybe that's what someone meant when heoriginally suggested the method earlier.Hope I helped,Art At 10:30 PM 5/7/98 -0700, you wrote:I am having the same problem with the file named "binder". It is not aJPG, GIF, TIF,PCX, or even a WMF (according to both Hijaak and Photoshop). What is it? George Bourke ----------From: mcoy@sduhsd.k12.ca.us Subject: Re:Binder for AmateursDate: Thursday, May 07, 1998 9:52 AM I would love to view this attachment, but it will not come up. I addedthe jpgextension without success. Can you please repost or send it to medirectly. mcoy@sduhsd.k12.ca.us ____________________Reply Separator____________________Subject: Binder for AmateursAuthor: Date: 5/6/98 3:58 PM The attachment is a JPEG photo of a binder.It has always seemed to me that any binder I tried was a bit tricky toset upand adjust. I guess it's OK if you make a lot of rods and get the feel things by using them all the time. Half the time I don't even bother, andbind Here is a binder that:Can be built with hardware store parts.Is easy to adjust and intuitive to use.Is portable.It consists of two 6" pulleys mounted on !/2" ID, 5/8" OD copper watertube. A5/8" retaining ring holds each in place. The copper tube is mounted totheplywood frame with pipe hanging straps. The drive pulley has a lengthof"V"belt contact cemented in it's groove, in effect a rubber tire. It alsohas ahandle mounted, so it can be cranked by the user.The binder pulley has a spool of thread, a thread tensioner, and a threadguide mounted on it's face. In front of the binder pulley, on it's shaftis a5/8" ID wire compression spring, with a washer on each end. Thispushesthebinder pulley back into the drive pulley, creating the friction thatallowsthe machine to work. The machine is clamped to your bench.In use, the rod section is fed through the middle of the binder pulleyfromthe back. After attaching the thread, you slowly pull the section throughfromthe front with your left hand. You crank in one direction with your righthand direction for the second wrap. I thought I might need a brake on thedrivewheel so that I could stop and change hand positions without losingtension,but there is enough drag built in that it was not necessary. from thramer@presys.com Fri May 8 14:36:58 1998 0000 Subject: [Fwd: Tapers] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5BAC324348AB This a repost of my discussion about my taper styles.A.J. --------------5BAC324348AB Organization: A.J. Thramer Bamboo Rods Subject: Tapers I would like to discuss taper types with the other members of the group.I build three types of tapers, the Px- a semi para derived fromGranger(just look at the taper archives of the 4wt and the WM) which isstill my favorite to use. A bit slower than alot of the current workbeing done. Others in the taper archives who like that style of rodwould appear to be Cris Bogart in the Shenandoah Supreme models and thePayne 200. Another style that accounts for the majority of the commercial rodsthat I sell is the Dx series. It has been described as a "Catskill Dry"type of taper, progressively loading from the tip to the butt. Easy tocast, readily can be sped up or slowed down. It seems to be the besttype of taper to transition from graphite to bamboo. I seem to provide alot of rods to people transitioning which may account for the popularityof the taper style.The last type is the true Para rods (designated "para" on the rod,quite a bit of imagination , no?). My para rods are characterized by theflex into the cork. I don't like to sell these rods "over the counter"as they are a specialized taper. They require extremely precise timingand can be easily damaged due to the extremely high stresses in thecane. The y come back with blown up butts and hook digs in the tips.If anyone has an interest in discussing my favorite subject of taperdesign, hot dog! I would be quite happy to provide one of my tapers tosuit another listmembers interest.Happy tapering,A.J.Thramerthramer@presys.com --------------5BAC324348AB-- from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri May 8 14:42:08 1998 Subject: Pictures Well here goes nothing. I think I successfully posted the binder photo at :http://members.aol.com/tsmithwickI would appreciate it if one of the people still having trouble would checkthis out and let me know if it works. Thanks to Darryl for suggesting it.. from anglport@con2.com Fri May 8 14:50:21 1998 Subject: Re: Binder for Amateurs Daryl,Thanks for the education. I was under the impression that only .exefiles could carry viruses. Can a jpg file also piggyback one of the littleSOB's?Art Also, be aware that downloading attachments can be a way of spreadingviruses. Be sure you trust the person sending an attachment beforeyou download it, and be sure to check it with a virus checker beforeyou execute or use it. Darryl Hayashida from RVenneri@aol.com Fri May 8 15:08:33 1998 Subject: Re: Binder Pics Maybe some one could post the pic as a jpg I would also like to view itThanksBob V Venneri's Custom Components21 Chuck Hill RoadSaugerties N Y 12477914 246 5882 from SalarFly@aol.com Fri May 8 15:10:02 1998 Subject: Re: Pictures In a message dated 5/8/98 12:49:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time,TSmithwick@aol.com writes: Well here goes nothing. I think I successfully posted the binder photo at :http://members.aol.com/tsmithwickI would appreciate it if one of the people still having trouble wouldcheckthis out and let me know if it works. Thanks to Darryl for suggesting it.. Worked fine for me, but I'm on AOL too.Darryl from RVenneri@aol.com Fri May 8 15:14:50 1998 Subject: Re: Pictures In a message dated 5/8/98 3:49:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time,TSmithwick@aol.comwrites: Yes it worked Thanks Thanks to Darryl also good idea.Bob VVenneri's Custom Components21 Chuck Hill RoadSaugerties N Y 12477914 246 5882 from SalarFly@aol.com Fri May 8 15:22:27 1998 Subject: Re: Binder for Amateurs In a message dated 5/8/98 12:56:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time,anglport@con2.comwrites: Thanks for the education. I was under the impression that only .exefiles could carry viruses. Can a jpg file also piggyback one of the littleSOB's? I haven't heard of a graphics file carrying a virus, I was thinking of a Worddocument or Excel spreadsheet - they can have a macro "virus". Some graphics files can have a header with a macro like set of instructions.I think it's just a matter of time until some bonehead with nothing betterto do comes up with some set of header instructions that trashes yourPhotoshop or whatever you use. Darryl Hayashida from saweiss@flash.net Fri May 8 15:24:31 1998 Subject: Re: Pictures -----Original Message----- Subject: Pictures Well here goes nothing. I think I successfully posted the binder photo at :http://members.aol.com/tsmithwickI would appreciate it if one of the people still having trouble wouldcheckthis out and let me know if it works. Thanks to Darryl for suggesting it.. It works, Tom !Steve from mcoy@sduhsd.k12.ca.us Fri May 8 15:35:31 1998 R8.00.00) Subject: Re:Pictures --simple boundary Three members (kind souls) sent me the pictures off list. In each case Iwasable to read the files. The original must have been corrupted somewhereduringthe transfer. Thanks to all Mick mcoy@sduhsd.k12.ca.us ____________________Reply Separator____________________Subject: PicturesAuthor: Well here goes nothing. I think I successfully posted the binder photo at :http://members.aol.com/tsmithwickI would appreciate it if one of the people still having trouble would checkthis out and let me know if it works. Thanks to Darryl for suggesting it.. --simple boundary (ccMailLink to SMTP R8.00.00); Fri, 08 May 98 12:54:51 -0800 intergate.sduhsd.k12.ca.us (8.8.5/8.8.0) with ESMTP id MAA19756 for Subject: Pictures --simple boundary-- from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri May 8 15:44:49 1998 (205.233.86.208) Subject: Re: FW: bamboo milling machine Carbide cannot be ground to the acute angles that can be given to carbonsteel because the carbide would chip. This means that more cutting forcewould be required, which is a fact when carbide is used. You are alsotryingto cut two sides at once!Does not sound too promising to me, I would at least try the contraptionoutbefore shelling out any money.Anyone that can sharpen a plane to cut bamboo can knock out a set of twotipblanks in a day. I can see no mechanical advantage in this type of scrapingset up.Terry Coffey, Patrick W wrote: Just received this email from Tom Morgan regarding his hand mill I sawdemonstrated at the conference at Merritt. It's a understatement to saythat one can go from split and straightened strips to glue up in a heartbeat. If I hadn't seen it myself first had I wouldn't have believed it.With this mill all you need to build a bamboo flyrod is a binder, heattreating device and the mill in one day.Dear Patrick, Thanks for your interest in the Hand Mill. We will get a brochure outto you this week. Sorry for the delay we have been out of town. The Hand Mill is very accurate. You set the taper using a dialindicator. This takes between ten and fifteen minutes and can be setwithin .001. The plane then cuts the strip to the taper you set andtothe angle of the cutters. Traditionally, cutters are set at 60degrees. However, I recommend 61 1/2 degrees. This undercuts thebamboo slightly making the edges come together tightly while stillproviding good glue joints. The strips are all precut until they areone pass from being finished. The cutter is then set for the finaldimension and each strip is then cut one final time. Each strip isthenexactly the same size as all of the others. The adjustable bed is set up with adjusting screws every five incheswhich is the standard for hand planing. You should be able to cut anyregular taper except a swelled butt. The cost of the machine and all of the accessories to cut one angle is$1995 plus shipping. Additional angles for four or five strip rods is$200. You could choose other than a six strip cutter as your firstchoice. If you have any other questions after receiving the brochure pleaseletme know. We went to a Bamboo Conference of rod builders in BritishColumbia last week and showed the Hand Mill. It generated atremendousamount of interest. Thanks again,Tom Morgan from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri May 8 15:48:03 1998 Subject: Re:Pictures Thanks to all who replied, and sorry for the original confusion. I'm going to be away for the weekend, so if there are any furtherquestions,please hold them until Monday. from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri May 8 15:49:31 1998 (205.233.86.208) Subject: jpeg files sodding picture.Terry from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Fri May 8 15:50:03 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Subject: jpg troubles (was: Binder for Amateurs) I'm no computer guru like some of you guys, but I really like the latestversion of Netscape Navigator and Mailbox. I think it's v. 4.04. If y'allhaven't downloaded it yet, I think it would be worth your time and trouble. Andit's free !Usual disclaimers apply,Harry Boyd from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri May 8 15:57:11 1998 (205.233.86.208) Subject: Re: FW: bamboo milling machine If someone is just starting out what the hell would he want a planing millfor? You may think that is what they need but I dont. OK?I t costs enough already to build the Garrison way that most builders haveto try to hawk rods to pay for the gear. Now you are adding more to thelist.Leave it out.Terry Coffey, Patrick W wrote: well in keeping with your tradition of being a curmudgeon, you obviouslydon't know what you are talking about in relation to the Morgan mill. IDID use it and it's safe to say that after pushing a plane PROFESSIONALY than or easier and having made my first rod 30 years ago I know how itis to plane bamboo and my experience was that it was no harder thanplaning one side of a strip with a block plane. I did not measure theangle of the carbide cutters in the mill but I know that it is mucheasier to scrape than push a wedge through any material, it takesconsiderably less force to scrape something than to plane it.It's heckof a lot easier to plane a bamboo strip than to spend 8 hours a day 5days a week and 3 weeks carving the back of a upright bass made ofcurlymaple into compound curves in all direction. Both Tom Morgan and PerBrandin said that you don't have to mill the strips wet, they did both awet one and a dry one in front of us, but the wet one removes materialeasier and both ways it went through the nodes with ease and no divots.If making the strips when wet you have to compensate for shrinkage orlet the dry before final passes. You are making the assumption thateveryone has the experience to make a two tip blank in a day and thatmakes the guys who are just starting out with plane feel like they arenimnals for not being able to do it. The Morgan mill is a fool proof way is used, the first time out. The Milward mill does the same thing onlyit use a router moter instead of pushing two carbide scrapers across thematerial. The cutter went through the bamboo, both sides at the sametime, with the same force that a block plane, and may be less force,goes through one side of bamboo strip. ----------From: Terence Ackland[SMTP:hexagon@odyssee.net] Sent: Thursday, May 07, 1998 2:08 PM Subject: Re: FW: bamboo milling machine Carbide cutters cannot stand the rake angles that that can be put oncarbonsteel plane blades, so more force is required to cut, add to this youarecutting two sides at once. It does not sound right to me at all. Whathappens to your tolerances once the strips have dried out?I would try it out before I shelled out any cash. Hand planing is handplaning and whether you pull or push, there is no mechanical advantageasfar as I can see.Practice with a hand plane and split accurately and anyone can knockout atwo tip blank in a day.Terry from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri May 8 16:03:33 1998 (205.233.86.208) Subject: Re: FW: bamboo milling machine Steve, 61.5deg was ok back when you could buy a cane rod for $10It worries me, especially some guys are using white glue and charging tentimesas much.TerryDr. Steven A. Weiss wrote: -----Original Message-----From: Steve Leach Date: Friday, May 08, 1998 8:27 AMSubject: RE: FW: bamboo milling machine Just to put the increased angle (61.5 degrees) to into some perspective.Ifyou are making a rod with a butt end of .260" the maximum gap betweenadjacent strips will be less than 4 thou (0.1mm in real units) and the"hole" down the middle will be about 3 thou (0.08 mm). This assumestherewill be no deformation of the strips (which will decrease this) whenyoubind/glue them. IT would be interesting to hear if any of the hand planers use this trickand, if so, how they made their forms. Just my 0.02 worth (South African which is worth a lot less than 0.02US) Steve Leach -----Original Message-----From: DR. STEVEN A. WEISS [SMTP:saweiss@flash.net]Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 1998 8:18 PM Subject: Re: FW: bamboo milling machine Increasing the angle to hide the glue line is an OLD woodworker's trick.The price you pay is a greater mass of glue inside the joint. In thiscase,substituting glue for bamboo. This will add to the variation in actiondueto glue. A while back, Wayne C. reminded us to pay attention to detail,particularly at the end of each step. Garrison rejected this trick andeventhinned his glue to get closer approximation of the strips and betterpenetration of the glue.Just a beginner's opinion.Steve Weiss Multiplied times six = .024" filled with glue. It seems that it becomes agreater percentage of the rod as the sections get thinner, but someonewould have to calculate some cross-sectional percentages. from rclarke@eou.edu Fri May 8 16:20:39 1998 Subject: Re: FW: bamboo milling machine Terry, i have to agree. i sat down today to look at the funds I have putinot this. I was surprised how much I have spent without building a rodyet. All the extras sound neat, but sticking to basics really has somemerit. Robert clarke ----------From: Terence Ackland Subject: Re: FW: bamboo milling machineDate: Friday, May 08, 1998 1:57 PM If someone is just starting out what the hell would he want a planingmillfor? You may think that is what they need but I dont. OK?I t costs enough already to build the Garrison way that most buildershaveto try to hawk rods to pay for the gear. Now you are adding more to thelist.Leave it out.Terry Coffey, Patrick W wrote: well in keeping with your tradition of being a curmudgeon, youobviouslydon't know what you are talking about in relation to the Morgan mill. IDID use it and it's safe to say that after pushing a planePROFESSIONALY than or easier and having made my first rod 30 years ago I know how itis to plane bamboo and my experience was that it was no harder thanplaning one side of a strip with a block plane. I did not measure theangle of the carbide cutters in the mill but I know that it is mucheasier to scrape than push a wedge through any material, it takesconsiderably less force to scrape something than to plane it.It's heckof a lot easier to plane a bamboo strip than to spend 8 hours a day 5days a week and 3 weeks carving the back of a upright bass made ofcurlymaple into compound curves in all direction. Both Tom Morgan and PerBrandin said that you don't have to mill the strips wet, they did bothawet one and a dry one in front of us, but the wet one removes materialeasier and both ways it went through the nodes with ease and nodivots.If making the strips when wet you have to compensate for shrinkage orlet the dry before final passes. You are making the assumption thateveryone has the experience to make a two tip blank in a day and thatmakes the guys who are just starting out with plane feel like they arenimnals for not being able to do it. The Morgan mill is a fool proofway taperis used, the first time out. The Milward mill does the same thing onlyit use a router moter instead of pushing two carbide scrapers acrossthematerial. The cutter went through the bamboo, both sides at the sametime, with the same force that a block plane, and may be less force,goes through one side of bamboo strip. ----------From: Terence Ackland[SMTP:hexagon@odyssee.net] Sent: Thursday, May 07, 1998 2:08 PM Subject: Re: FW: bamboo milling machine Carbide cutters cannot stand the rake angles that that can be put oncarbonsteel plane blades, so more force is required to cut, add to this youarecutting two sides at once. It does not sound right to me at all. Whathappens to your tolerances once the strips have dried out?I would try it out before I shelled out any cash. Hand planing ishandplaning and whether you pull or push, there is no mechanicaladvantageasfar as I can see.Practice with a hand plane and split accurately and anyone can knockout atwo tip blank in a day.Terry from flyrod@artistree.com Fri May 8 17:05:55 1998 PAA02181 Subject: Re: jpg troubles I agree. Or even the latest version of Netscape Communicator & MSExplorer. Bothallow you to place or receive a photo for viewing within the emailmessage notjustattach for viewing through some other method. In other words the photo isdisplayedright there in all it's glory with the message text. I use it all the time tosend/receive photos to/ from family members and prospective clients (youdo needascanner or digital camera if you are going to send photos). Wonderfulfeaturethatreally wow's them.Regards,Chris Wohlford Harry Boyd wrote: I'm no computer guru like some of you guys, but I really like the latestversion of Netscape Navigator and Mailbox. I think it's v. 4.04. If y'allhaven't downloaded it yet, I think it would be worth your time andtrouble.Andit's free !Usual disclaimers apply,Harry Boyd from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri May 8 17:17:23 1998 Subject: Tom Morgan's Mill To all, I received Tom's brochure a couple of months before I attended the rodmaker gathering @ Merritt. I looked it over carefully placing it beside myeasy chair for occasional reference. God, I thought - tis a sack of money,especially in Canada - about $ 4,000 CDN. Do I need it? Then came Merritt's demo - with Per and Bob Clay running the demo withTom's instructions, this mill turns out strips @ an unholy rate. Good ones makers in attendance. And those makers represent a hell of a lot ofexpertise. from the people I talked too, they were impressed. Tom obviously spent a lot of time pondering just how this mill mightwork.Each component from the mill itself to the anvils showed a markedattentionto detail. While Tom could have used other components to make the millfrom, he chose items that made the mill well worthwhile. from the choiceofthe plane [ low friction base], cutting edges [ replaceable], anvil [ won'tdull the cutting surfaces], and the list goes on. Each component seemed tobe chosen to satisfy the home builder of cane rods. Should you buy one - well I guess that depends - Terry certainly shouldn't.To build one, the cost of the raw materials likely will exceed $ 250 CDN.The milling, drilling, lathe time if done on a 1 off basis will likely killyou for price. For those that have milling/lathing equipment - it would bea challenge. For myself, if they weren't so expensive in Canada - perhaps.After turning out about 65 rods over the past 15 or so years, I can see theadvantages. Tom has done a great service to the cane rod makers by bringing this millto us. Don't let a small number of detractors discourage you from owningone. Certainly there are those folks who pride themselves on making acanerod with the lowest cost tools. For those, this is a abomination. For thosethat enjoy fine tools, this is a dandy. regards, Don Andersen from channer@hubwest.com Fri May 8 18:48:00 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A9FF14E00EE; Fri, 08 May 1998 17:49:19 MDT Subject: re: bamboo milling machine Hi ! All;Do me a favor, if any of you figure out how much it costs to gear up tomake rods, PLEASE don't post it on the list. I went to a great deal oftrouble to spread things around between cash, checks and several creditcards just so I wouldn't know. Its fun, I enjoy it, and thinking about themoney I have spent will just throw a big wet blanket over the whole thing,besides, if my wife ever finds out how much I have spent I will be in deeps**t. And please don't post any responses with the words "wife" or"money"in the heading! from rclarke@eou.edu Fri May 8 18:56:35 1998 Subject: Re: bamboo milling machine John, no mention of actual m----y, or w--e, or d-----s. Just that it c---sa bunch! Robert Clarke anyway, I have to agree with Terry every now and then. ----------From: john channer Subject: re: bamboo milling machineDate: Friday, May 08, 1998 10:46 AM Hi ! All;Do me a favor, if any of you figure out how much it costs to gear up tomake rods, PLEASE don't post it on the list. I went to a great deal oftrouble to spread things around between cash, checks and several creditcards just so I wouldn't know. Its fun, I enjoy it, and thinking aboutthemoney I have spent will just throw a big wet blanket over the wholething,besides, if my wife ever finds out how much I have spent I will be indeeps**t. And please don't post any responses with the words "wife" or"money"in the heading!> from rodsmiths@imt.net Fri May 8 19:33:38 1998 cu.imt.net(8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA03447 for ;Fri, 8 May Subject: Cutter Angles rodmakers- I have a wide variety of cutters available for my Bamboo Hand Milldepending on the preference of the rodmakers. For six strip rods thereare 60 degree or 61 1/2 degree, for five strip 72 degree or 73 1/2degree and for four strip rods 90 or 92 degree cutters. from myexperience the slightly bigger angle glues with excellent strength whileproviding tight seams. However, it is not my goal to try to persuadeanyone to use a different cutter angle. I am only passing on some of myexperience. Tom Morgan from saltwein@swbell.net Fri May 8 20:04:37 1998 gw4adm.rcsntx.swbell.net UAA23991 Subject: Royer cane Received my shipment of cane today. To an untrained eye (I've only beenat this for 8 months) it looks good. On initial inspection only one of the culms is under 2" at the base. Isaw no growers marks, nor did I see any scorch marks from straightening.There are some flaws and scratches helter skelter on the culms, but as Ihave no reference points I can't make a judgement on them. I will knowbetter what I have as I start splitting and building rods with them.Another part of the learning curve. To characterize my reaction, I would say pleased and satisfied. Maybe Ishould be raving but I will have to see more cane. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri May 8 20:16:28 1998 Subject: Re: Pictures I looked it up at the address you gave and it is there for all to seeBret from saweiss@flash.net Fri May 8 20:19:06 1998 Subject: Re: Cutter Angles -----Original Message----- Subject: Cutter Angles rodmakers- I have a wide variety of cutters available for my Bamboo Hand Milldepending on the preference of the rodmakers. For six strip rods thereare 60 degree or 61 1/2 degree, for five strip 72 degree or 73 1/2degree and for four strip rods 90 or 92 degree cutters. from myexperience the slightly bigger angle glues with excellent strength whileproviding tight seams. However, it is not my goal to try to persuadeanyone to use a different cutter angle. I am only passing on some of myexperience. Tom Morgan Excellent, TomYou are the toolmaker, and evidently a fine one. How your tool is used and There always is and has been variety in every discipline. That's oftensomeof the attraction as well as the frustration. I may not like the idea of 611/2 degree angles but it's fun to have a discussion of the subject. My ownkids don't agree with me on almost every topic.Let's keep controversy alive in this group and have fun doing it.Here's a suggestion -- How about forming a group called the BBI -- TheBamboo Bureau of investigation. We all can chip in a little to fund it.They will have the power to investigate and punish anyone who deviatesfromthe proper techniques as laid down in "The Book". The offenses can bedescribed before us all and we can suggest and vote on the properpunishments. Kind of our own kangaroo court. from saweiss@flash.net Fri May 8 20:21:09 1998 Subject: BBI Sorry, Tom,I forgot to sign off. Rude of me.Steve Weiss from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri May 8 20:33:55 1998 Subject: John Channer/Wife /Money/ Blackmail John, Mums the word.Bret from Fallcreek9@aol.com Fri May 8 21:05:22 1998 Subject: Re: Pictures ( Was Binder for Amateurs) Tom - it worked and the picture is ok. Your binder epitomizes thebrillianceof simplicity. Best Regards,Richard Tyree from sats@gte.net Fri May 8 21:17:04 1998 Subject: Re: Apprenticeship in Japan .... Sasano visit VAA07585 I have at least 2 old Japanese cane rods, I hope your tutors never made'em!Terry Please note: This is Terry A. from Canada, not "sunfish" Terry, from Fl. (Been there, done that, had a lot of explaining to do.) Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri May 8 21:28:32 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Pictures Darryl and Tom,I'm on a mac and aol and couldn't open the download but i accessed Tom'saolsite and was able to view it-thanks Tom.Regards,Hank.> from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Fri May 8 22:17:22 1998 ; Sat, 9 May 1998 15:17:09 +1200 Subject: re: bamboo milling machine My sentiments , and experience , exactly. iank At 05:46 PM 8/05/98, you wrote:Hi ! All;Do me a favor, if any of you figure out how much it costs to gear up tomake rods, PLEASE don't post it on the list. I went to a great deal oftrouble to spread things around between cash, checks and several creditcards just so I wouldn't know. Its fun, I enjoy it, and thinking about themoney I have spent will just throw a big wet blanket over the wholething,besides, if my wife ever finds out how much I have spent I will be in deeps**t. And please don't post any responses with the words "wife" or"money"in the heading! Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email iank@nelson.planet.org.nz from Ragnarig@aol.com Fri May 8 22:30:24 1998 Subject: Re: coatings for splitcane rods In a message dated 98-05-08 13:48:33 EDT, you write: Dear Hank You know, this is something I'm really curious about. I know that, overtime,bamboo can get really really dry, even without a significant amount ofvarnishremaining, but the phenomenon of presumably dried, heat-treated and/orflamedcane becoming rehydrated has got me stumped. Is it because its moisture content has actually never reached equilibrium,andyour rod took a few years for the moisture to migrate back through theporousoil coating on the surface fibers? This, consequently, raises the questionofwhat the average humidity is in your area. It's a widely-held belief, and one which I will certainly not contest, thatbamboo rods, after use, must be thoroughly air-dried in a warm room. Butthisis a good idea for anything assembled with hide glue, not just rods. I'm assuming that you're doing this, Hank, and that the relative humidity inyour house is somewhat lower than that of the outside air, right? Themoisture shouldn't have much trouble migrating back out, as long as thetungoil coating is sufficiently porous. The thing is, I've only been doing this stuff a relatively few years, andhavenever had to promote myself as being an "expert" or a master of any kind,so Idon't mind telling you there's a lot I've never figured out. Actually, I would not recommend using pure tung oil for anything; it driesnot. The best way I have found to use it is in about a 65-70% polymerizedvarnish. Epifanes (Dutch marine varnish) is really excellent, as is Tru-oil.I wouldn't expect either of these to be detrimental to the action of yourrod. All the best,Davy from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri May 8 22:33:06 1998 (205.236.249.214) Subject: Re: FW: bamboo milling machine Bob,If you are interested I can tell you what I do, completely free, no books, novideos.Terry ty I do Robert Clarke wrote: Terry, i have to agree. i sat down today to look at the funds I have putinot this. I was surprised how much I have spent without building a rodyet. All the extras sound neat, but sticking to basics really has somemerit. Robert clarke ----------From: Terence Ackland Subject: Re: FW: bamboo milling machineDate: Friday, May 08, 1998 1:57 PM If someone is just starting out what the hell would he want a planingmillfor? You may think that is what they need but I dont. OK?I t costs enough already to build the Garrison way that most buildershaveto try to hawk rods to pay for the gear. Now you are adding more to thelist.Leave it out.Terry Coffey, Patrick W wrote: well in keeping with your tradition of being a curmudgeon, youobviouslydon't know what you are talking about in relation to the Morgan mill. IDID use it and it's safe to say that after pushing a planePROFESSIONALY than or easier and having made my first rod 30 years ago I know howitis to plane bamboo and my experience was that it was no harder thanplaning one side of a strip with a block plane. I did not measure theangle of the carbide cutters in the mill but I know that it is mucheasier to scrape than push a wedge through any material, it takesconsiderably less force to scrape something than to plane it.It's heckof a lot easier to plane a bamboo strip than to spend 8 hours a day 5days a week and 3 weeks carving the back of a upright bass made ofcurlymaple into compound curves in all direction. Both Tom Morgan and PerBrandin said that you don't have to mill the strips wet, they did bothawet one and a dry one in front of us, but the wet one removesmaterialeasier and both ways it went through the nodes with ease and nodivots.If making the strips when wet you have to compensate for shrinkageorlet the dry before final passes. You are making the assumption thateveryone has the experience to make a two tip blank in a day and thatmakes the guys who are just starting out with plane feel like theyarenimnals for not being able to do it. The Morgan mill is a fool proofway taperis used, the first time out. The Milward mill does the same thing onlyit use a router moter instead of pushing two carbide scrapers acrossthematerial. The cutter went through the bamboo, both sides at the sametime, with the same force that a block plane, and may be less force,goes through one side of bamboo strip. ----------From: Terence Ackland[SMTP:hexagon@odyssee.net] Sent: Thursday, May 07, 1998 2:08 PM Subject: Re: FW: bamboo milling machine Carbide cutters cannot stand the rake angles that that can be put oncarbonsteel plane blades, so more force is required to cut, add to this youarecutting two sides at once. It does not sound right to me at all. Whathappens to your tolerances once the strips have dried out?I would try it out before I shelled out any cash. Hand planing ishandplaning and whether you pull or push, there is no mechanicaladvantageasfar as I can see.Practice with a hand plane and split accurately and anyone canknockout atwo tip blank in a day.Terry from channer@hubwest.com Fri May 8 22:36:28 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AF9B20000C4; Fri, 08 May 1998 21:38:03 MDT Subject: Re: John Channer/Wife /Money/ Blackmail At 09:33 PM 5/8/98 EDT, you wrote:John, Mums the word.Bret Thanks alot, Bret, and after I asked you not to. Good thing for me Ichecked the mail. John from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri May 8 23:01:00 1998 (205.236.249.214) Subject: matriarchs of the list Guys come and go from this list regularly and like any publication youcan repeat yourself frequently and it is not noticed. What bothers me isthat there is a matriarchal group on this list that tries to makerodbuilding too difficult. They hang around on a permanent basis givingadvice that really is so,so. There are products trying to being soldand reputations trying to be made.Rodmaking is not brain surgery and you do not have to be a selfprofessed master ukulele maker to make a rod first time that willastonish all your fishing pals. The only real way to learn is by yourown mistakes, you cannot hot house experience.Terry from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri May 8 23:05:57 1998 (205.236.249.214) Subject: Re: Cutter Angles are these cutters out of the box carbide milling cutter inserts designedformetal removal or has the geometry been optimized for cane?Terry Tom Morgan & Gerri Carlson wrote: rodmakers- I have a wide variety of cutters available for my Bamboo Hand Milldepending on the preference of the rodmakers. For six strip rods thereare 60 degree or 61 1/2 degree, for five strip 72 degree or 73 1/2degree and for four strip rods 90 or 92 degree cutters. from myexperience the slightly bigger angle glues with excellent strength whileproviding tight seams. However, it is not my goal to try to persuadeanyone to use a different cutter angle. I am only passing on some of myexperience. Tom Morgan from thramer@presys.com Fri May 8 23:13:39 1998 0000 Subject: Simple Building After the first reading of the Garrison book I said to myself, you arein too deep! Thankfully George Barnes book arrived on my bookcase andhis straightforward problemsoving approach made my brain come alive.Many of the described methods were unsophisticated BUT THEY WORKED!After that I began melding the two approaches into a more unified methodthat worked for me. Largely that consisted of building many of the toolsout of spare parts and JUNK. Ingenuity was rewarded. Many of the methodsin the 'bible' were ridiculously complicated. You need but a few items to build a rod, the first is persistence,following that a plane such as a simple #212, a screwdriver ground to asplitting tool, a taper jig wood if you are on a budget or ColoradoBootstrap forms are 1/2 of what my first set of forms cost in unadjusted1981 dollars, Barnes binding jig is time consuming but it works,asanding block, some type of penetrating finish to eliminate the varnishhassle and of course an alcohol lamp(heat gun if so inclined).I have seen endless attempts to overcomplicate the process. Most ofthe accessory items DO make it more accurate and/or easier, but they arenot needed. The vaunted .001" accuracy was never attained by any of theold makers. Why do many of the same rods vary so much? A good taper isquite forgiving of small errors in dimension. In the current climate ofpolitically correct rodbuilding many of the methods that work are beingturned aside to bow at the altar of the 'bible'. In the end what you aretrying to achieve is a good fishing rod. Since that does not requireflawless varnish, nonexistant glue seams, silk thread, 14/3 glace cotton,super z or swiss ferrules only,cork without void, or reelseats madewith virgin kumbaya tree wood. Many of these attributes are desirableand aethestically pleasing but they make the rod cast no better. Aperfect rod with a lousy bloody taper is an abomination compared to asomewhat crude rod that does what a rod should do...fish!So BUILD! LEARN, Teach me something! I am hampered by my ownexperience! At times I almost wish for the dark ages when we had no'resource' or ready made anything available, it was a time of creativityand experimentation. Very exciting intellectually to make the discoveryof what made a para rod work, overtreating a rod and having it shatter,and the discovery that a rod made in your own unique style was betterthan an exact reproduction of even the greatest masters rod. This is notto say that I was not influenced by every conversation and chanceencounter with another builder in my rodbuilding life, even now I gleana new perspective almost every week from the group. SO THANK YOU GEORGE BARNES! You are the one who convinced me that itwaspossible!A.J.Thramer from stpete@netten.net Fri May 8 23:24:48 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA18244 for -0500 Subject: I'm here to learn He doesn't consider stress graphs meaningful. There's only one way todo a job - his way. He knows from personal experiences and mistakes. There could be no other experiences. I've seen the webpage. That lookslike a damn expensive lathe/mill to me. I'm a rank amateur when it comes to rodmaking. I'm just wrapping up mynew STEEL planing forms (thanks Thomas Penrose!!). They wouldn't bringmuch money (I didn't ream the shoulder bolt and dowel pin holes, Don'ttell Terry!) I don't know woodworking, machining, millwork, etc. But Ibuilt a rod! I'm here to learn what's possible AND I'll listen tomistakes others have made to try and avoid them, but I'm damn skepticalof people who give advice and NEVER consider anyother possiblities. If you know all there is to know, and the world has come as far as itneeds to in the science and art of rodmaking, what is the purpose ofthis forum? Healthy skepticism is one thing. Constant criticism andnaysaying is another. I'll consider and even take your advice on Tung oil. It makes greatsense to me. But if I read about a new technique and someone whoobviously is familiar with quality work raves about it. I want to hearhim out. The world is ROUND, sir. I'm getting on the ship and checking out thenew world. Rick, Rank Amateur, Adventurer, and Town Fool from flyfisher@nextdim.com Fri May 8 23:40:43 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id AD14F0501A8; Fri, 08 May 1998 21:35:32 PDT Subject: Re: Simple Building Right on A. J., I know some " would be" rod builders that never seem to getaround to building that first rod because they hear of some new method ortool that someone has made, designed or thought of, so they are alwaysundecided how to even get started. My advice is try to make it as simpleasyou can and go ahead and build it. My first rod is ugly, big glue lines,varnish runs and all, but it cast good and has caught a lot of fish and Iwouldn't sell or trade it for anything.Dell Coppock,"IN THE GREAT NORTHWEST"http://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail flyfisher@nextdim.com- ----Original Message----- Subject: Simple Building After the first reading of the Garrison book I said to myself, you arein too deep! Thankfully George Barnes book arrived on my bookcase andhis straightforward problemsoving approach made my brain come alive.Many of the described methods were unsophisticated BUT THEY WORKED!After that I began melding the two approaches into a more unified methodthat worked for me. Largely that consisted of building many of the toolsout of spare parts and JUNK. Ingenuity was rewarded. Many of the methodsin the 'bible' were ridiculously complicated.You need but a few items to build a rod, the first is persistence,following that a plane such as a simple #212, a screwdriver ground to asplitting tool, a taper jig wood if you are on a budget or ColoradoBootstrap forms are 1/2 of what my first set of forms cost in unadjusted1981 dollars, Barnes binding jig is time consuming but it works,asanding block, some type of penetrating finish to eliminate the varnishhassle and of course an alcohol lamp(heat gun if so inclined).I have seen endless attempts to overcomplicate the process. Most ofthe accessory items DO make it more accurate and/or easier, but they arenot needed. The vaunted .001" accuracy was never attained by any of theold makers. Why do many of the same rods vary so much? A good taper isquite forgiving of small errors in dimension. In the current climate ofpolitically correct rodbuilding many of the methods that work are beingturned aside to bow at the altar of the 'bible'. In the end what you aretrying to achieve is a good fishing rod. Since that does not requireflawless varnish, nonexistant glue seams, silk thread, 14/3 glace cotton,super z or swiss ferrules only,cork without void, or reelseats madewith virgin kumbaya tree wood. Many of these attributes are desirableand aethestically pleasing but they make the rod cast no better. Aperfect rod with a lousy bloody taper is an abomination compared to asomewhat crude rod that does what a rod should do...fish!So BUILD! LEARN, Teach me something! I am hampered by my ownexperience! At times I almost wish for the dark ages when we had no'resource' or ready made anything available, it was a time of creativityand experimentation. Very exciting intellectually to make the discoveryof what made a para rod work, overtreating a rod and having it shatter,and the discovery that a rod made in your own unique style was betterthan an exact reproduction of even the greatest masters rod. This is notto say that I was not influenced by every conversation and chanceencounter with another builder in my rodbuilding life, even now I gleana new perspective almost every week from the group. SO THANK YOU GEORGE BARNES! You are the one who convinced me that itwaspossible!A.J.Thramer from flyfisher@nextdim.com Fri May 8 23:43:00 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id AD9EBAD01D0; Fri, 08 May 1998 21:37:50 PDT Subject: Re: Simple Building Use the KISS principle.Dell Coppock,"IN THE GREAT NORTHWEST"http://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail flyfisher@nextdim.com- ----Original Message----- Subject: Simple Building After the first reading of the Garrison book I said to myself, you arein too deep! Thankfully George Barnes book arrived on my bookcase andhis straightforward problemsoving approach made my brain come alive.Many of the described methods were unsophisticated BUT THEY WORKED!After that I began melding the two approaches into a more unified methodthat worked for me. Largely that consisted of building many of the toolsout of spare parts and JUNK. Ingenuity was rewarded. Many of the methodsin the 'bible' were ridiculously complicated. You need but a few items to build a rod, the first is persistence,following that a plane such as a simple #212, a screwdriver ground to asplitting tool, a taper jig wood if you are on a budget or ColoradoBootstrap forms are 1/2 of what my first set of forms cost in unadjusted1981 dollars, Barnes binding jig is time consuming but it works,asanding block, some type of penetrating finish to eliminate the varnishhassle and of course an alcohol lamp(heat gun if so inclined).I have seen endless attempts to overcomplicate the process. Most ofthe accessory items DO make it more accurate and/or easier, but they arenot needed. The vaunted .001" accuracy was never attained by any of theold makers. Why do many of the same rods vary so much? A good taper isquite forgiving of small errors in dimension. In the current climate ofpolitically correct rodbuilding many of the methods that work are beingturned aside to bow at the altar of the 'bible'. In the end what you aretrying to achieve is a good fishing rod. Since that does not requireflawless varnish, nonexistant glue seams, silk thread, 14/3 glace cotton,super z or swiss ferrules only,cork without void, or reelseats madewith virgin kumbaya tree wood. Many of these attributes are desirableand aethestically pleasing but they make the rod cast no better. Aperfect rod with a lousy bloody taper is an abomination compared to asomewhat crude rod that does what a rod should do...fish!So BUILD! LEARN, Teach me something! I am hampered by my ownexperience! At times I almost wish for the dark ages when we had no'resource' or ready made anything available, it was a time of creativityand experimentation. Very exciting intellectually to make the discoveryof what made a para rod work, overtreating a rod and having it shatter,and the discovery that a rod made in your own unique style was betterthan an exact reproduction of even the greatest masters rod. This is notto say that I was not influenced by every conversation and chanceencounter with another builder in my rodbuilding life, even now I gleana new perspective almost every week from the group. SO THANK YOU GEORGE BARNES! You are the one who convinced me that itwaspossible!A.J.Thramer from flyfisher@nextdim.com Fri May 8 23:49:30 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id AF24BC801D0; Fri, 08 May 1998 21:44:20 PDT Subject: Re: I'm here to learn Hey Rick, You will make a great rod builder if you just stay in that frameof mind, listen to every body and take what sounds reasonable and willwork Dell Coppock,"IN THE GREAT NORTHWEST"http://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e- mail flyfisher@nextdim.com-----Original Message----- Subject: I'm here to learn He doesn't consider stress graphs meaningful. There's only one way todo a job - his way. He knows from personal experiences and mistakes.There could be no other experiences. I've seen the webpage. That lookslike a damn expensive lathe/mill to me. I'm a rank amateur when it comes to rodmaking. I'm just wrapping up mynew STEEL planing forms (thanks Thomas Penrose!!). They wouldn't bringmuch money (I didn't ream the shoulder bolt and dowel pin holes, Don'ttell Terry!) I don't know woodworking, machining, millwork, etc. But Ibuilt a rod! I'm here to learn what's possible AND I'll listen tomistakes others have made to try and avoid them, but I'm damn skepticalof people who give advice and NEVER consider anyother possiblities. If you know all there is to know, and the world has come as far as itneeds to in the science and art of rodmaking, what is the purpose ofthis forum? Healthy skepticism is one thing. Constant criticism andnaysaying is another. I'll consider and even take your advice on Tung oil. It makes greatsense to me. But if I read about a new technique and someone whoobviously is familiar with quality work raves about it. I want to hearhim out. The world is ROUND, sir. I'm getting on the ship and checking out thenew world. Rick, Rank Amateur, Adventurer, and Town Fool from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Fri May 8 23:52:15 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.1); Sat,9May 1998 00:54:07 -0400 Subject: Re: matriarchs of the list I have to agree with you Terry! The best bit of advice (no offense to anyone else) was by Tony Young who told me to "turn off the computer and finish a rod." I did and boy was he right! Part of the problem with having a resource like the rodmakers listserv is information is so available. I spent too much time second guessing myself and not enough time building. Take care, Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Sat May 9 03:02:32 1998 ; Sat, 9 May 1998 20:02:21 +1200 Subject: binder for amateurs At 07:57 PM 9/05/98 +1200, you wrote: To all, I had decided this weekend was the weekend to stay off the computor andmakea binder . ( Tony's advice ) . I had just about decided to make a Milwardbinder untill I saw Tom Smithwick's simple binder on the group earlier inthe week and decided that it looked closer to my skill level . I started about 9.00 am Saturday and had it complete and making anexcellentjob of binding a wooden dowel by 4.30 pm ( New Zealand is ahead of therestof the world in lots of ways ) , which is very fast work using tools for anaccountant who believes some people were born with natural skills intheirhands and knows he is not one of those. Really only needed an electricdrill, screw driver , saw , hammer and nails ,and a file . I made a few changes to the design which Tom showed . Please note that Ihave not said these are improvements , merely changes to suit what I hadonhand . I had an offcut from a laminated beam about 15" long 5"deep and10"wide so I used that as a base hoping that this would make the rig a littlemore stable and eliminate the need for clamping to the table . It alsoprovided a stable base to nail to and lessened the dependance on precisefixing of the simple frame which Tom had shown. I thought a little further about Tom's comment about the belt in the pullyforming a tyre like surface and searched in my pile of "usefull junk"underthe oak tree in the back paddock to find a broken down hoe with two 8"hardrubber tyres .I used these rather then the pulleys Tom suggested and theyseem to provide a good turning traction . I also mounted the wheel (pulley)with the handle under the top board so as to provide easier access toinsertthe bamboo into the copper pipe . I know it does not give a perfectturning/driving connection but seems to work just fine. The other change i made was to put two binding thread holders on thebindingpulley identical to that shown on Bob Millwards binder in the Best ofPlanning Form . So congratulations Tom ..it is a really good Amateurs binder and can bemadequickly and cheaply by someone with limited equipment and cash . Minewouldhave cost me about $10 ( sorry for mentioning m...y but this is not a lot ) It may have special benefits for some rodmakers . Firstly it enabled metopoint out to my w..e that restoring rods and rodmaking was not anexpensivehobby and I had just made a piece of machinery for $10 when flashmodelswere advertised for $100's . Secondly it enable me to point out that thepile of gear in the back paddock that " was sure to come in handy " hadproved itself and her annual suggestion that it "should all be sent to therubbish dump" was not justified . regards Iank Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email iank@nelson.planet.org.nz from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat May 9 05:02:37 1998 Sat, 9 May 1998 18:02:07 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: FW: bamboo milling machine On Fri, 8 May 1998, Terence Ackland wrote: If someone is just starting out what the hell would he want a planingmillfor? You may think that is what they need but I dont. OK?I t costs enough already to build the Garrison way that most buildershaveto try to hawk rods to pay for the gear. Now you are adding more to thelist.Leave it out.Terry True, true. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat May 9 05:10:44 1998 Sat, 9 May 1998 18:09:55 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: re: bamboo milling machine On Fri, 8 May 1998, john channer wrote: Hi ! All;Do me a favor, if any of you figure out how much it costs to gear up tomake rods, PLEASE don't post it on the list. I went to a great deal oftrouble to spread things around between cash, checks and several creditcards just so I wouldn't know. Its fun, I enjoy it, and thinking about themoney I have spent will just throw a big wet blanket over the wholething,besides, if my wife ever finds out how much I have spent I will be indeeps**t. And please don't post any responses with the words "wife" or"money"in the heading! John, get a copy of Gene Hill's story Horse Feathers he explains all. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat May 9 05:21:38 1998 Sat, 9 May 1998 18:21:10 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: matriarchs of the list On Sat, 9 May 1998, Terence Ackland wrote: Guys come and go from this list regularly and like any publication youcan repeat yourself frequently and it is not noticed. What bothers me isthat there is a matriarchal group on this list that tries to makerodbuilding too difficult. They hang around on a permanent basis givingadvice that really is so,so. There are products trying to being soldand reputations trying to be made.Rodmaking is not brain surgery and you do not have to be a selfprofessed master ukulele maker to make a rod first time that willastonish all your fishing pals. The only real way to learn is by yourown mistakes, you cannot hot house experience.Terry That is correct, but I wonder if a lot of people enjoy the complexity side of it. I know on my boat for eg. I went on a sail with friends this morning and my boat is simplicity itself and all I got was hitech winch (BS,BS), spectra cord(BS,BS), pu paint stytem (BS,BS). At first I argued my reasoning for avoiding all this junk but then I decided they realy enjoy it all so let 'em go.The problem arrises when new people arrive on the scene and get frightened off or get in over their head financialy when it's completely avoidable. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat May 9 05:29:05 1998 Sat, 9 May 1998 18:28:34 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Simple Building On Fri, 8 May 1998, A.J.Thramer wrote: After the first reading of the Garrison book I said to myself, you arein too deep! Thankfully George Barnes book arrived on my bookcase andhis straightforward problemsoving approach made my brain come alive.Many of the described methods were unsophisticated BUT THEY WORKED!After that I began melding the two approaches into a more unifiedmethodthat worked for me. Largely that consisted of building many of the toolsout of spare parts and JUNK. Ingenuity was rewarded. Many of themethodsin the 'bible' were ridiculously complicated. You need but a few items to build a rod, the first is persistence,following that a plane such as a simple #212, a screwdriver ground to asplitting tool, a taper jig wood if you are on a budget or ColoradoBootstrap forms are 1/2 of what my first set of forms cost inunadjusted1981 dollars, Barnes binding jig is time consuming but it works,asanding block, some type of penetrating finish to eliminate the varnishhassle and of course an alcohol lamp(heat gun if so inclined).I have seen endless attempts to overcomplicate the process. Most ofthe accessory items DO make it more accurate and/or easier, but theyarenot needed. The vaunted .001" accuracy was never attained by any of theold makers. Why do many of the same rods vary so much? A good taper isquite forgiving of small errors in dimension. In the current climate ofpolitically correct rodbuilding many of the methods that work are beingturned aside to bow at the altar of the 'bible'. In the end what you aretrying to achieve is a good fishing rod. Since that does not requireflawless varnish, nonexistant glue seams, silk thread, 14/3 glace cotton,super z or swiss ferrules only,cork without void, or reelseats madewith virgin kumbaya tree wood. Many of these attributes are desirableand aethestically pleasing but they make the rod cast no better. Aperfect rod with a lousy bloody taper is an abomination compared to asomewhat crude rod that does what a rod should do...fish!So BUILD! LEARN, Teach me something! I am hampered by my ownexperience! At times I almost wish for the dark ages when we had no'resource' or ready made anything available, it was a time of creativityand experimentation. Very exciting intellectually to make the discoveryof what made a para rod work, overtreating a rod and having it shatter,and the discovery that a rod made in your own unique style was betterthan an exact reproduction of even the greatest masters rod. This is notto say that I was not influenced by every conversation and chanceencounter with another builder in my rodbuilding life, even now I gleana new perspective almost every week from the group. SO THANK YOU GEORGE BARNES! You are the one who convinced me that itwaspossible!A.J.Thramer Very well said. To all on the list afraid to desicrate that first piece of cane, attack it with extreme prejudice. Between what AJ just said and Terry keeps ramming down the list's collective throat and what everybody says when they finaly start, it's not that hard. Garrison's book is good, but it's only an opinion, don't let it worry ya. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat May 9 05:36:06 1998 Sat, 9 May 1998 18:35:07 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: matriarchs of the list On Sat, 9 May 1998, Jon Lintvet wrote: I have to agree with you Terry! The best bit of advice (no offense to anyone else) was by Tony Young who told me to "turn off the computer and finish a rod." I did and boy was he right! Part of the problem with having a resource like the rodmakers listserv is information is so available. I spent too much time second guessing myself and not enough time building. Take care, Glad it worked. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat May 9 05:38:37 1998 Sat, 9 May 1998 18:38:25 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: jpeg files On Fri, 8 May 1998, Terence Ackland wrote: sodding picture.Terry I missed this picture, could somebody please repost it? No, only kidding. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat May 9 07:03:16 1998 (205.236.248.68) Subject: Re: I'm here to learn Dont let me worry you Rick, just trying to get some blood circulatingaroundthe list.Rodmaking is a handicraft, nothing more.Terry stpete wrote: He doesn't consider stress graphs meaningful. There's only one way todo a job - his way. He knows from personal experiences and mistakes.There could be no other experiences. I've seen the webpage. That lookslike a damn expensive lathe/mill to me. I'm a rank amateur when it comes to rodmaking. I'm just wrapping up mynew STEEL planing forms (thanks Thomas Penrose!!). They wouldn't bringmuch money (I didn't ream the shoulder bolt and dowel pin holes, Don'ttell Terry!) I don't know woodworking, machining, millwork, etc. But Ibuilt a rod! I'm here to learn what's possible AND I'll listen tomistakes others have made to try and avoid them, but I'm damn skepticalof people who give advice and NEVER consider anyother possiblities. If you know all there is to know, and the world has come as far as itneeds to in the science and art of rodmaking, what is the purpose ofthis forum? Healthy skepticism is one thing. Constant criticism andnaysaying is another. I'll consider and even take your advice on Tung oil. It makes greatsense to me. But if I read about a new technique and someone whoobviously is familiar with quality work raves about it. I want to hearhim out. The world is ROUND, sir. I'm getting on the ship and checking out thenew world. Rick, Rank Amateur, Adventurer, and Town Fool from anglport@con2.com Sat May 9 08:55:35 1998 Subject: Re: binder for amateurs Ian,Any chance that you're not as technologically challenged as I am and canpost a pic of yours? I'd love to see another angle and another perspective(forgive the pun) on the idea.Art At 08:02 PM 5/9/98 +1200, you wrote:At 07:57 PM 9/05/98 +1200, you wrote: To all, I had decided this weekend was the weekend to stay off the computorand makea binder . ( Tony's advice ) . I had just about decided to make a Milwardbinder untill I saw Tom Smithwick's simple binder on the group earlierinthe week and decided that it looked closer to my skill level . I started about 9.00 am Saturday and Secondly it enable me to point outthat the pile of gear in the back paddock that " was sure to come in handy " hadproved itself and her annual suggestion that it "should all be sent to therubbish dump" was not justified . regards Iank Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sat May 9 11:38:15 1998 Subject: Re: I'm here to learn At 08:03 09/05/98 -0400, you wrote:Dont let me worry you Rick, just trying to get some blood circulatingaroundthe list.Rodmaking is a handicraft, nothing more.Terry Ya right! Rod making is what ever you want it to be - from making rods using axestofine woodworking tools. I guess you have to decide what you want your rod to look like. If you want to be a house painter [handicraft] go for it - but if want tomake a rod that you should be proud of you're going to have to plane a sackof cane, make a lot of mistakes and use the best equipment that you canimprovise or afford. PS - I hear that Terry maybe imigrating from Canada - anyone want him? Don from flyfisher@cmix.com Sat May 9 11:54:38 1998 Subject: Re: I'm here to learn RO>At 08:03 09/05/98 -0400, you wrote: RO>PS - I hear that Terry maybe imigrating from Canada - anyone wanthim? RO>Don Don, We'll take him out here in California - the place is full of characters. Don Burns from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sat May 9 12:14:20 1998 Subject: Re: [1] I'm here to learn At 09:53 09/05/98 -0600, you wrote:RO>At 08:03 09/05/98 -0400, you wrote: RO>PS - I hear that Terry maybe imigrating from Canada - anyone wanthim? RO>Don Don, We'll take him out here in California - the place is full of characters. Don Burns Don, If we deflate him - should be able to ship him in a match box. Don from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sat May 9 13:12:11 1998 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA20596 Subject: Sv: [1] I'm here to learn NAA28357 Emne: Re: [1] I'm here to learn At 09:53 09/05/98 -0600, you wrote:RO>At 08:03 09/05/98 -0400, you wrote: RO>PS - I hear that Terry maybe imigrating from Canada - anyone wanthim? RO>Don Don, We'll take him out here in California - the place is full of characters. Don Burns Don, If we deflate him - should be able to ship him in a match box. Don Hot air can be compressed, You'd have all of him then Carsten from Canerods@aol.com Sat May 9 14:44:34 1998 Subject: Re: Sv: [1] I'm here to learn In a message dated 98-05-09 14:18:25 EDT, you write: Don, If we deflate him - should be able to ship him in a match box. Don Hot air can be compressed, You'd have all of him then Carsten All, Leave Terry alone, he's a breath of fresh air. I love his input - makes my think. Like why am I farting around with restoring old rods when I could bemaking myown equally poor new ones. But they'd be my own things of joy. Don Burns from gwbarnes@gwi.net Sat May 9 17:33:54 1998 Subject: Re: Cutter Angles Dr. Steven A. Weiss wrote: -----Original Message-----From: Tom Morgan & Gerri Carlson Date: Friday, May 08, 1998 6:41 PMSubject: Cutter Angles rodmakers- Here's a suggestion -- How about forming a group called the BBI -- TheBamboo Bureau of investigation. We all can chip in a little to fund it. Why chip in? Let's just tell someone in Congress and they'll do it for us.Justimagine, an area of control that's been overlooked.George Barnes from emiller257@dataflo.net Sat May 9 22:28:51 1998 wddataflo.dataflo.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA02524 for Subject: Barnes book With so many list guys singing the praises of the G. Barnes book, can anyone tell me a source for it besides Anglers Art? I tried one address on the web that was posted a few weeks ago and I cant get it to work. Any help appreciated. Ed M. from emiller257@dataflo.net Sat May 9 22:37:32 1998 wddataflo.dataflo.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA02789 for Subject: Chicago Rodmakers at Coren's Rod and Reel Just a short report on the get together in Chicago. Met Rob, Dennis, and Mark and cast some wonderful rods. A 6'3" Wayne C. built by Dennis H. was a dream. Very light and quick. A 6wt Gillum by Rob H. felt great. Was very impressed with casting quality and appearance of these rods. Next meeting set for 2nd Thur in July. Will be sure to post notice to List. Had a terrific time. Hope to meet more local makers and trade stories. Later....Ed M from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sun May 10 00:31:43 1998 mtigwc05.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA11557 +0000 Subject: Re: Re:Binder for Amateurs Hmmm, I tried Netscape (V4.02) and Internet Explorer (V3.??) and PhotoShop(V4.5)andHiJaak (V???). No luck with anything. Possibly the JPG I got off ofAT&T's serverwas corrupted. Would you mind trying to e-mail direct??? If you do try, I'm at:irish- george@worldnet.att.net Thanks for posting,George Bourke----------From: TSmithwick Subject: Re:Binder for AmateursDate: Friday, May 08, 1998 6:57 AM George - It left here as a JPG, but strange things seem to happen outthere.When I downloaded it myself to check it out, AOL had changed it to a textfile, and all I got was a page of code. I use a Mac, and there is asharewareutility called JPEG view, which will change this sort of thing back to aJPGfile. I don't know if there is anything comprable for a PC. Maybe someoneelsecan help with that. Most of the people who were having a problem seemedto beable to open it through Netscape. from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sun May 10 00:48:31 1998 mtigwc05.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA19240 +0000 Subject: Re: Binder for Amateurs Darryl, I haven't had any problem opening any of the other JPG's that have been attachments from the listserver. I think this one must have come thru myISP corrupted.(Other hobbies of mine include photography and digital image manipulationvia PhotoShop...so I generally have the tools available to view, edit, color correct, crop,or sharpen imagesthat come my way.) I think the JPG header info is missing on the "binder"photo I got (notjust the file extension -- that one is easy to get around). I REALLY hateto mention this, butI develope software for a living (though networking is somewhat new tomeand not related tomy job).Your suggestions to make people aware (and beware) when there areattachments are goodones. Thanks to you and everyone else for all the help...I think I need to getanother copy of thefile (or find someone who knows how to reconstruct the header, I AMgettingASCII). George Bourke ----------From: SalarFly Subject: Re: Binder for AmateursDate: Friday, May 08, 1998 9:01 AM In a message dated 5/8/98 7:05:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time,TSmithwick@aol.comwrites: George - It left here as a JPG, but strange things seem to happen outthere.When I downloaded it myself to check it out, AOL had changed it to atextfile, and all I got was a page of code. I use a Mac, and there is asharewareutility called JPEG view, which will change this sort of thing back toaJPGfile. I don't know if there is anything comprable for a PC. Maybesomeoneelsecan help with that. Most of the people who were having a problemseemed tobeable to open it through Netscape. In a previous life (most of the "oldtimers" on this list knew me backthen)I was an email adminstrator for a large oil company, and I had to dealwith problems like this all the time. I cringed when I saw theattachmentcome across in Tom's message because I knew a lot of people weregoing to have problems. Basically what is happening is this. Only text can be sent across theinternet. Attachments have to be encoded into a text stream and sent.This is usually done transparently to the sender by the email softwarehe is using, so he doesn't know that it was done. The receiving system has to be able to recognize that a block of text in the message is an attachment and decode it. There are so many different systems out on the internet that not allof them are going to be able to recognize the encoding scheme used.Realize that we have people with PCs, Macs, Unix workstations, andprobably some out there still using dumb terminals connected to IBM Mainframes. Anybody remember PROFS? If we want to continue to send pictures through this list server,and I for one don't object, we should warn everyone there isa picture attached in the subject line. For this picture I would'veused:Binder for Amateurs (Picture Attached)as a subject line. That way people who know they can't recieveattachments won't get a megabyte of seemingly garbage characters. Also, be aware that downloading attachments can be a way of spreadingviruses. Be sure you trust the person sending an attachment beforeyou download it, and be sure to check it with a virus checker beforeyou execute or use it. Darryl Hayashida from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sun May 10 00:54:45 1998 mtigwc05.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA21220 +0000 Subject: Re: Pictures -- NOT on AOL and worked fine for me too! Thanks!! George Bourke----------From: SalarFly Subject: Re: PicturesDate: Friday, May 08, 1998 1:09 PM In a message dated 5/8/98 12:49:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time,TSmithwick@aol.com writes: Well here goes nothing. I think I successfully posted the binder photoat :http://members.aol.com/tsmithwickI would appreciate it if one of the people still having trouble wouldcheckthis out and let me know if it works. Thanks to Darryl for suggestingit.. Worked fine for me, but I'm on AOL too.Darryl from hokkaido_flyfisher@yahoo.com Sun May 10 02:09:38 1998 Subject: Re: Apprenticeship in Japan .... cAckland TK, Ackland's just gettin' my creative juices flowin ...Still waiting for his comeback ... been a fewdays, but I am sure he'll think of something ;-) Cheers, Christian -"Terry L. Kirkpatrick" wrote:I have at least 2 old Japanese cane rods, I hope your tutors never made 'em!Terry Please note: This is Terry A. from Canada, not "sunfish" Terry, from Fl. (Been there, done that, had a lot of explaining to do.) Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.==Mr. Christian THALACKERc/o Asaina Michiko-san Otaru University of CommerceMatsugae 2-6-30 Otaru International Center047-0022 Hokkaido JAPAN Midori 3-5-21 Otaru047 Hokkaido JAPAN Email: Hokkaido_Flyfisher@yahoo.comHompepage: http://members.tripod.com/~Nijimasu/O.html_________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Sun May 10 03:05:27 1998 ; Sun, 10 May 1998 20:05:16 +1200 Subject: Re: binder for amateurs What .. and expose my primative carpentry ability to the .001" experts onthis group . Seriously ..I am technologically challenged with anything beyond pushingthe"on" switch of a computor and do not have a scanner . However my son ,wholikes to help his poor old dad on these sorts of things will be home fromUniversity in a few days and I will ask him to bring home his scanner andwill see what can be done . Alternatively , having being educated in the era of pencil and paper ,Icould draw a sketch and fax it to you .The principle of this binder is sosimple that there can be many variations depending on what materialspeoplemay have on hand. regards iank At 10:10 AM 9/05/98 -0400, you wrote:Ian,Any chance that you're not as technologically challenged as I am and canpost a pic of yours? I'd love to see another angle and another perspective(forgive the pun) on the idea.Art At 08:02 PM 5/9/98 +1200, you wrote:At 07:57 PM 9/05/98 +1200, you wrote: To all, I had decided this weekend was the weekend to stay off the computorand makea binder . ( Tony's advice ) . I had just about decided to make a Milwardbinder untill I saw Tom Smithwick's simple binder on the group earlierinthe week and decided that it looked closer to my skill level . I started about 9.00 am Saturday and Secondly it enable me to pointoutthat the pile of gear in the back paddock that " was sure to come in handy " hadproved itself and her annual suggestion that it "should all be sent to therubbish dump" was not justified . regards Iank Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email iank@nelson.planet.org.nz from saweiss@flash.net Sun May 10 08:19:10 1998 Subject: Book wanted Does anyone have a copy of Spurr & Sinclair, Classic Colorado Cane" forsale?Steve Weiss from destinycon@mindspring.com Sun May 10 09:19:29 1998 Subject: Re: Book wanted Steve,Check Bibliofind, they have a few listed. They are asking a lot!Centenial publishing says they are going to reprint soon. I didn't look attheir web site but I know they have a date of when. Gary H. At 07:20 AM 5/10/98 -0600, you wrote:Does anyone have a copy of Spurr & Sinclair, Classic Colorado Cane" forsale?Steve Weiss from richjez@enteract.com Sun May 10 09:20:17 1998 0000 (147.126.253.18) Subject: Re: Chicago Rodmakers at Coren's Rod and Reel Sounds great. Sorry I couldn't make it, I had my graduation to go to. Keep us posted. I will make the next one if I get back from Grayling intime .Rich Jezioro At 11:36 PM 5/9/98 -0700, you wrote:Just a short report on the get together in Chicago. Met Rob, Dennis, and Mark and cast some wonderful rods. A 6'3" Wayne C. built by Dennis H. was a dream. Very light and quick. A 6wt Gillum by Rob H. felt great. Was very impressed with casting quality and appearance of these rods. Next meeting set for 2nd Thur in July. Will be sure to post notice to List. Had a terrific time. Hope to meet more local makers and trade stories. Later....Ed M *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ /||/______/_||_________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > from Molly1011@aol.com Sun May 10 10:01:05 1998 Subject: rod finish sirs, from Molly1011@aol.com Sun May 10 10:07:03 1998 Subject: rod finish sirs I have been dipping my rods in pratt and lambert varmour (urethane).when I am done the flats of the rod are not as flat as they once were. thefinish is thicker in the center of the blank. the rod still has its hexagonalshape, but the corners don't seem as sharp as they once were. do you haveanysuggestions that might help me apply the finish evenly? thanks inadvance erik from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun May 10 10:37:55 1998 (205.236.248.127) Subject: training wheels All I am trying to do is is maker new builders think before they invest$2000 on what appears to me to be training wheels.I think it would be far better to develop a good hand planing techniquewhich includes sharpening. find it very hurtful.Strange really that the real rodmakers are not bothered by my pokingfun, it only seems to upset the self promoting wannabees.These lists are all the same, taken over by a small group of 'experts'that know all the answers and get very cross if the gospel according tothem is questioned.I am sorry but rodmaking is easy once a planing form is acquired, anyonecan do it. Some of the regular clique on the list get some sort of powertrip by trying to turn rodmaking into something other than a handicraft. Terry from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun May 10 11:07:34 1998 (205.236.248.127) Subject: Re: Simple Building Nice piece AJ, sensitively written, not unlike some of my postings.I remember getting Barnes's and Garrison's book at the same time. I hadreadabout Garrison the rodmaker but not Barnes the rodmaker and decided tobelieve in the Garrison technoblurb, after all how can you build a rod witha hunting knife? What a mistake, it took me several years to graduallydropall the gadgets and end up with just the planing form which after all isthekeystone to hand planing.The problem with the list is that it pivots aroundthe Garrison method andhas to be promoted at all cost because that is the only method the topgunsknow. It is a pity really because the Garrison way requires so muchequipment that it forces a builder to try to sell rods, and because theGarrison system is not really a professional rodbuilding technique they digholes for themselves.Terry A.J.Thramer wrote: After the first reading of the Garrison book I said to myself, you arein too deep! Thankfully George Barnes book arrived on my bookcase andhis straightforward problemsoving approach made my brain come alive.Many of the described methods were unsophisticated BUT THEY WORKED!After that I began melding the two approaches into a more unifiedmethodthat worked for me. Largely that consisted of building many of the toolsout of spare parts and JUNK. Ingenuity was rewarded. Many of themethodsin the 'bible' were ridiculously complicated.You need but a few items to build a rod, the first is persistence,following that a plane such as a simple #212, a screwdriver ground to asplitting tool, a taper jig wood if you are on a budget or ColoradoBootstrap forms are 1/2 of what my first set of forms cost inunadjusted1981 dollars, Barnes binding jig is time consuming but it works,asanding block, some type of penetrating finish to eliminate the varnishhassle and of course an alcohol lamp(heat gun if so inclined).I have seen endless attempts to overcomplicate the process. Most ofthe accessory items DO make it more accurate and/or easier, but theyarenot needed. The vaunted .001" accuracy was never attained by any of theold makers. Why do many of the same rods vary so much? A good taper isquite forgiving of small errors in dimension. In the current climate ofpolitically correct rodbuilding many of the methods that work are beingturned aside to bow at the altar of the 'bible'. In the end what you aretrying to achieve is a good fishing rod. Since that does not requireflawless varnish, nonexistant glue seams, silk thread, 14/3 glace cotton,super z or swiss ferrules only,cork without void, or reelseats madewith virgin kumbaya tree wood. Many of these attributes are desirableand aethestically pleasing but they make the rod cast no better. Aperfect rod with a lousy bloody taper is an abomination compared to asomewhat crude rod that does what a rod should do...fish!So BUILD! LEARN, Teach me something! I am hampered by my ownexperience! At times I almost wish for the dark ages when we had no'resource' or ready made anything available, it was a time of creativityand experimentation. Very exciting intellectually to make the discoveryof what made a para rod work, overtreating a rod and having it shatter,and the discovery that a rod made in your own unique style was betterthan an exact reproduction of even the greatest masters rod. This is notto say that I was not influenced by every conversation and chanceencounter with another builder in my rodbuilding life, even now I gleana new perspective almost every week from the group. SO THANK YOU GEORGE BARNES! You are the one who convinced me that itwaspossible!A.J.Thramer from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun May 10 11:22:47 1998 Subject: Re: I'm here to learn I have been hiding from the list a bit over the past few months - butI'vebeen keeping busy. It's no secret that I am frantically working on arevisionof my book with a deadline just around the corner. Honest criticism is thatIneeded more and better photos to illustrate. And In working toward thateffortI can step back to relate with the new comer to rod making. Any endeavor requires an investment - both cash and sweat. I am one ofthose reluctant to spent the cash in most cases. But I have spent a bundleinmy mind to try to achieve the end result - in the most recent project -cameraequipment. With photo equipment you don't have the option to make yourown. Afew good lenses - a 1600 watt flash outfit - a solid tripod w/ microadjustinghead and a variery of meters and misc. At each purchase I have gonethroughthe emotions that I hear on the list. Do I need it to achieve my goal ? - DoIreally need to buy the most expensive? - Can I do without? And then I havehadto make a decision.In all this I am old enough in life that I fully understand that I can'tjust buy the knowledge to use all this equipment. This is where I feelsomefall down. That's where the sweat comes into play. No matter how much Ireador how many questions that I ask I haven't learned anything until I actuallyuse the equipment and make the mistakes to shore up the experience.I'm reminded of an article that Loe Lovertii wrote in The Planing Form."Ham and Eggs" In the article Joe uses a pig and a chicken to illustrate thedifference between being involved and being committed. The chicken byproducing an egg is involved. But the pig, sacraficing to become the ham,iscommitted. It's not until you become committed to a goal that you willsucceed. Wayne from jfoster@gte.net Sun May 10 12:32:21 1998 Subject: Re: matriarchs of the list So, what's your point? Harriett Foster from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun May 10 12:56:54 1998 (205.236.249.77) Subject: Re: matriarchs of the list Jerry Foster wrote: So, what's your point? Harriett Foster The point is Harriet, I thought the list was to encourage newrodmakers, not be a kind of info-mercial on gadgets.Terry from channer@hubwest.com Sun May 10 12:59:08 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AB3A2440102; Sun, 10 May 1998 12:00:26 MDT Subject: Garrison Terry;It might be a good idea for you to go back and re-read Garrison again. Ireally don't think you have a clear memory of what he says. Sure, he wasretentive to the n'th degree, but he basically got by with what he had orcould make for himself. Most of his tools, other than his form, he eithergot from his brother, or made for himself, making purchases as necessaryand as his budget allowed. I think most of us that work with tools,whetherwe be rodmakers, carpenters, cabinet makers or what have you, tend tocollect as many tools and gadgets as we can afford(or not, depending onself discipline). Mr. G. was an engineer by education and therefore tookthe engineers approach to rodbuilding, that his methods were a little overcomplicated should come as no surprise to anyone who has had occasion todeal with them, it is the purpose of an engineer to over build and overdesign whatever he may be working on in order to insure the function andlongetivity of the project at hand( these days, also to avoid thepossibility of litigation in case of failure).As for the existence of"matrirchs of the list", I cannot figure out whom you may be refering to,in no instance that I have seem has there been any tone of "My way isright, all others are wrong". I, personally, value everything I have read,either on or off list, as the exposure to many differnt ways of doingthings has allowed me to develop my own ways. I might add that I have asmuch appreciation for your comments as anyone else's. John Channer from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sun May 10 13:10:00 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.1); Sun,10May 1998 14:11:51 -0400 Subject: Re: rod finish First I would thin the varnish...then I would stop by an auto-paint store and pick up some 1200 grit sandpaper. Cut the paper into strips 1/2" x 1" and sand all the flats between coats. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from channer@hubwest.com Sun May 10 13:12:49 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AE6C10C00D2; Sun, 10 May 1998 12:14:04 MDT Subject: Re: I'm here to learn At 12:21 PM 5/10/98 EDT, you wrote:I have been hiding from the list a bit over the past few months - butI'vebeen keeping busy. It's no secret that I am frantically working on arevisionof my book with a deadline just around the corner. Honest criticism isthat Ineeded more and better photos to illustrate. And In working toward thateffortI can step back to relate with the new comer to rod making. Any endeavor requires an investment - both cash and sweat. I am oneofthose reluctant to spent the cash in most cases. But I have spent a bundleinmy mind to try to achieve the end result - in the most recent project -cameraequipment. With photo equipment you don't have the option to make yourown. Afew good lenses - a 1600 watt flash outfit - a solid tripod w/ microadjustinghead and a variery of meters and misc. At each purchase I have gonethroughthe emotions that I hear on the list. Do I need it to achieve my goal ? -Do Ireally need to buy the most expensive? - Can I do without? And then Ihavehadto make a decision.In all this I am old enough in life that I fully understand that I can'tjust buy the knowledge to use all this equipment. This is where I feelsomefall down. That's where the sweat comes into play. No matter how much Ireador how many questions that I ask I haven't learned anything until Iactuallyuse the equipment and make the mistakes to shore up the experience.I'm reminded of an article that Loe Lovertii wrote in The Planing Form."Ham and Eggs" In the article Joe uses a pig and a chicken to illustratethedifference between being involved and being committed. The chicken byproducing an egg is involved. But the pig, sacraficing to become the ham,iscommitted. It's not until you become committed to a goal that you willsucceed. Wayne Bravo! from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun May 10 13:20:22 1998 (205.236.249.77) Subject: Re: I'm here to learn Don,You know that is not true, if you chase the best equipment route you aredoomedto failure. The idea is to master what you have. A bad workman allwaysblameshis tools is a very true statement.Sorry, unfortunately I cannot afford to emmigrate from Canada, could notaffordto buy back the house I sold in the UK. That is another story I am puttingdownto experience.Terry Don Andersen wrote: At 08:03 09/05/98 -0400, you wrote:Dont let me worry you Rick, just trying to get some blood circulatingaroundthe list.Rodmaking is a handicraft, nothing more.Terry Ya right! Rod making is what ever you want it to be - from making rods using axestofine woodworking tools.I guess you have to decide what you want your rod to look like. If you want to be a house painter [handicraft] go for it - but if want tomake a rod that you should be proud of you're going to have to plane asackof cane, make a lot of mistakes and use the best equipment that you canimprovise or afford. PS - I hear that Terry maybe imigrating from Canada - anyone want him? Don from destinycon@mindspring.com Sun May 10 13:33:54 1998 Subject: Re: I'm here to learn At 02:20 PM 5/10/98 -0400, you wrote:snipTerry But.....a good woorkman is only as good as he tools.Gary H. from jfoster@gte.net Sun May 10 13:39:16 1998 Subject: Re: matriarchs of the list Thank you, Terry. What I was really asking for was a positive suggestion and not arestatement of part of your previous position. Harriett Foster PS. from the point of view of a wife of a learning rod maker, it's allabout gadgets. from gwbarnes@gwi.net Sun May 10 14:16:05 1998 Subject: Re: Simple Building Terence Ackland wrote: Nice piece AJ, sensitively written, not unlike some of my postings.I remember getting Barnes's and Garrison's book at the same time. When I did the book, it was not my intention to end up creating a "thread".Thread then was what you sewed buttons on with and no one evenenvisioned ane-mail list. Intentional or not, I seem to be in the thread and may as wellthrow in my two cents worth. I've monkeyed around with rod building off and on (mostly on) for close tothirty years. I've made things more "complicated" as time went on butmostlybecause I like things mechanical and like to experiment. I also have asevereproblem that I've never seen someone doing something "craft wise" thatsooner orlater I didn't have to try. In those thirty years, I've reached a few conclusions that I may as wellsharewith the hope that they may clarify some of the dilemma facing thoseabout tobegin. You can make rod building as simple or complex as you want. If you want arod tofish, just go ahead and build it with what you have for tools andequipment.Your first one will probably be your favorite, especially if its a "killer"thefirst time out. If you want a display item, you better start now becausetheshowpiece is going to come only with experience. All of the aids are valuable but they are not a substitute forcraftsmanship.That's what is going to end up producing the showpiece. Both will comewithexperience. No matter how good you get, you're always going to find someone just alittlebetter. It may be tomorrow, next week or way down the road butsomewhere he orshe is building cane rods. When you find that person, accept it and learnhow tobecome a bit better. Tom Smithwick's binder is a good example of what Imean.Look at the trail of binders (if you don't have a trail you can look in myshop)that exist. Then along comes a genius and simplifies the whole thingwithoutsacrificing what binding is all about. Knowing how to sharpen a plane iron is really what it's all about. If youdon'tknow how, learn before start a rod. It may be modern, but don't overlookdiamondpaste and a leather wheel or belt. I don't care if it says Craftsman, Hock,Stanley or is one of my mongrels with a brazed carbide tip, if it "aint"supersharp you're in a mess. As I told A. J. off line, we've an old Maine saying, "Fish or cut bait".Translated it says, "If you want to make a rod, get at it". And yes, I've still got that old hunting knife, when I can find it in theclutter on my bench. George Barnes from fiveside@net-gate.com Sun May 10 14:45:00 1998 ns1.net-gate.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA12485 for Subject: Simplicity To the list,Can't believe what is appearing on this list! What happened to the cult ofcosmetic perfection? What about the prospective customer with magnifierchecking for wrap exactness? (who maybe couldn't cast across the street).What's really important is how a rod, maybe even a first rod casts andfishes? For most of us this is supposed to be fun. Let's hear it for GeorgeBarnes and let's encourage him to get out another edition with a picture ofTom's new simplified binder.. Bill from stpete@netten.net Sun May 10 15:02:07 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA00934 for Subject: Re: training wheels Terry, I posted the original note critizing you. Although I didn't name you,it was obvious who I was posting about. I want to hear your commentsregarding rodbuilding. I didn't mean to hurt your sensitive feelings. Personally, I used a self-made wooden planing form on my first rod. I'mnow finishing up my homemade steel forms. I have one block plane(Record), no lathe, one $89 drill press, a homemade bamboo froe, ahomemade workbench, a homemade roddipping tube, one of the early andinexpensive versions of Jon Lintvet's binder and splicing blocks, and ahomemade wrapping jig. My one real expense has been a bundle of Royerbamboo. I'm committed there, and deep! I have not bought every gadget, nor attempted to make every new gadget.I do, however, want to learn all I can about new ways to make betterrods or save time. My criticism was based on the fact that almost every post I read fromyou was about how someone else is full of #@$%. What's bugging youabout a guy who saw a neat machine and wanted to post the list about it?Try to stay positive. If someone is full of it, and he leads some othergullible wannabes down the proverbial primrose path, what is it to you?I find most folks on the list here to be well meaning if not wellinformed. Most, in fact, denigrate their own skills and knowledge ofthe art. Well informed and inquisitive types soon separate the fact from the bull$^%&. If someone thinks they can buy the experience andskills to become proficient at this, let them lay out the cash. I too read George Barnes book first, and was inspired by his simpleapproach, but it wasn't until I learned of ADJUSTABLE forms that Ithought my impatient and scattered mind might be able to make a useablerod. (sorry George, I didn't think I could make it 'free handing' in astraight tapered planing form, I never gave it a shot). Anyhow, inquiring about a machine is one thing. Slamming it andclaiming it impossible without knowing how it works is another. Rick from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sun May 10 15:49:05 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0500 Subject: Re: I'm here to learn I don't mean anything derogatory towards anyone bythis statement, but could we please get back torod-building? This really isn't much better than grits, orJosie, or small towns with funny names, or any of the otheroff-the- subject threads of the last year. How many timesand how many ways can we say, "There's more than one way toskin a cat." We all sound like the little boy who quit whenthe other kids wouldn't let him make up his own rules,"Well, if we don't do it my way, I'll take my ball and gohome."One of the things that attracted me to flyfishing inthe first place was a self-conceived image of gentility andnobleness. For me, bamboo rods epitomize those sentiments.Perhaps a little dose of humility would do us all good, andreturn us to the subject at hand.Now, for the obligatory rod-building question - Whenis an old rod too far gone to try to restore it? If theonly remaining tip is down a foot, and the mid down an inchat each end, and half the ferrules are missing, can it stillbe done? Maybe more relevant, should it still be done? Harry Boyd you wrote:snip >Terry from DEMARALON@aol.com Sun May 10 15:55:09 1998 Subject: Home Grown Power Fibers I would like to put my 2 cents into the discussion. It would be a great feat of genetic engineerng if the rodmaker could growrodmaker-quality Tonkin on his "back 40." Under identical conditions asHuajii hillsides, it is doubtful that any American farmer could afford tosit another 5years for the selected culms to reach full maturity. (See pages 295-298ofthe McClure report contained in "The Angler's Bamboo" by Luis Marden. According to the most recent figures received - Huajii County, the maintonkingrowing area, had 37,000 acres devoted to Arundinaria Amabalis in 1990andexported 13,282 metric tons of all sizes and descriptions that year. Theapproximate USA annual import of rodmaker size Tonkin in metric tonsaveraged: 1976-80 52 tons per year1981-85 46 tons per year1986-90 24 tons per year1991-95 33 tons per year Rodmakers might be better served in choosing culms with the best powerfibersif they took note of two easy tests. First: The so-called farmers' marksareplaced on the culm in the field just before or during harvest to identifythebest canes in the harvest. This enhances the processor's ability to setasidethe selected quality that rodmakers are seeking. In many cases therodmakercan completely plane off the farmers' marks and still have plenty of powerfibers for the finsihed rod,. Second: Power fibers in depth are a functionof maturity - at least 4 years for the average culm and 5 to 6 years for aheavier layer. To compare one culm with another of the samespecification -compare the weight. Dry, warehouse, USA weights of 5 year-maturitycaneshould be 5 - 5-1/2 lbs. for 12' x 1-3/4 - 2" and 6 to 7 lbs. for 12' x 2 -2-1/2". Lighter weights might indicate middle cuts with leaf buds nearthetip plus excessive taper and thin walls. The 5 year maturity figures areconfirmed by actual in-warehouse bale weights of our February '98arrival. Pre and post WWII production rod people (such as Montague and Horrocks- Ibbotson) used many sizes as opposed to today's practice of not mixingculms.At that time popular sizes for specific rod sections were 46" x 1-1-1/4"and54" x 1-1-1/4", both of which had adequate power fibers Harold Demarest from flyfisher@nextdim.com Sun May 10 16:10:25 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id A6846A90170; Sun, 10 May 1998 14:05:08 PDT Subject: Re: I'm here to learn Hi Harry, as to how to restore an old rod? you do the same as building arod, you use the parts that will work for you and add somebody else'spartsthat will work and complete the rod.-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: I'm here to learn I don't mean anything derogatory towards anyone bythis statement, but could we please get back torod-building? This really isn't much better than grits, orJosie, or small towns with funny names, or any of the otheroff-the- subject threads of the last year. How many timesand how many ways can we say, "There's more than one way toskin a cat." We all sound like the little boy who quit whenthe other kids wouldn't let him make up his own rules,"Well, if we don't do it my way, I'll take my ball and gohome."One of the things that attracted me to flyfishing inthe first place was a self-conceived image of gentility andnobleness. For me, bamboo rods epitomize those sentiments.Perhaps a little dose of humility would do us all good, andreturn us to the subject at hand.Now, for the obligatory rod-building question - Whenis an old rod too far gone to try to restore it? If theonly remaining tip is down a foot, and the mid down an inchat each end, and half the ferrules are missing, can it stillbe done? Maybe more relevant, should it still be done? Harry Boyd you wrote:snip> >Terry from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun May 10 16:16:47 1998 Subject: Bickering and P---ing and moaning Guys, Come on now why all the arguing and dissent I too have p-----d off somepeople on the list with some of my questions and comments but I havetried tonot do that again. If you have a disagreement with something thatsomeonewrote on the list and you have a comment to them send it to them off list(asI did) and the recipient of same should answer you off list so as not toclutter this up so much. It has gotten to the point where I throw awayhalfof the BS here because it is not worth reading ( no offense to anyone onthat). Why don't we go back to just putting pertinent info on here and doaway with the BS. If someone asks a question and you get a responseabout ittell him thanks off list and any dissent do the same. I get tired of openinga post and finding Thanks in it or some other such thing. Think about thearchives how big they are and how much is irrelevant to rod building. Ihavebeen building guns and rods for 25 years ( altho never a bamboo totallyfromscratch) and I still can learn a lot from you guys and vise versa. Iappreciate all that has been here that is informative but the other has meabout ready the unsubscribe. I know this will tick some of you off and if it does tell me OFF LIST, andtherest of you guys do your bickering OFF LIST! If you don't have somethingpertinent keep it OFF LIST! BRET from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun May 10 16:43:58 1998 Subject: Re: binder for amateurs In a message dated 5/9/98 8:07:06 AM, you wrote: Ian - I congratulate you on your success, and on your approach. The originalwas also built with salvaged parts on hand. I hope others will do the sameandreport any improvements. To George and Richard and others who have madeverykind comments, let me modestly say that I am glad you don't know howlong ittook me to figure this out. from rcurry@top.monad.net Sun May 10 17:00:28 1998 Subject: Downlocking reelseat needed Does anyone have either an F.E. Thomas downlocking reelseat I may buy,or one of the Hardy reelseats? I need a replacement seat for an old, butbeloved, rod.Thanks,Reedrcurry@top.monad.net from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun May 10 17:40:44 1998 Subject: Operating a Mill First there should be a correction of terminology - both units on themarket are mills. I have scolded Al for his use of the term beveler. FromHistory a beveler is a unit using two jewelers saws to cut the triangles.A mill has a couple of inherant operating limitations that a bevelerdoesn't. First the backing guide or pattern bar needs to be dedicated to aspecific section and specific taper. This means that for EVERY new taperyouwill need pattern bars for each of the sections of that rod. In use a millwill be set up for one taper and then the operator will run off a bunch. Ifyou were to race a 'handplaner' against a mill on a one off basis the'handplaner' will win - he would lose on the second rod.This time burden on the mill is that needed to set the pattern bars andrun test strips. On a powered mill there needs to be a shear between thecutter and the pattern bar - otherwise you can count on every other stripsbeing scrape - due to torn edges.A second unknown to most is that the pattern bar doesn't have a flattop.The upper surface of a pattern bar is radiused to the approximate radius ofthe culm the strips came from. On a power mill this radius is cut in witharadius cutter at the start of the set up process.Then besides all else the bamoo going into a powered mill needs to bestraighter than what most handplaners would use. I can remember gettingmyfirst bamboo from Glen at Winston. He told me that the bamboo he wassendingwas goos stuff but that it had a few sweeps and bends in it that theywoulduse because of there machining.To over come this and to be able to use all (or Most) bamboo strips anadditional tool would come recommended. A 48" sheet metal brake can befittedwith a stop block on the bed. The strips are heat treated to soften themandthen they are clamped down in the brake (which flattens) and the bend armisraised which presses the strips against the stop and straightens them. Ifyouhave help you can straighten and flatten a strip every 1 3/4 minutes -usingan oven temperature of 375 degrees.And if you can envision the above - you will also need a band saw tosawthe strips with to get a uniform width. The strips are first split as usualto12 then using a cam follower for a stop on the band saw they are cut towidth- producing 24 uniform width pieces.A option that I know Orvis uses (that is IF they are still using theirown mill) is that the pattern bars for there machine are 5" in length - thatway they are sectionalizing the set up - which might give someflexibility.Now I hope that you don't think that I'm trying to put down any attemptat using or creating a mill for producing bamboo fly rods - this is justsageadvice from some one that has been in a position to understand some ofthe newcan of worms that they can bring with them. Wayne from steveobg@nacs.net Sun May 10 18:54:41 1998 Subject: Re: Barnes book Try your local Library... you may have to try for it through the Interlibrary loan program... worked for me! -Steve-O Ed Miller wrote: With so many list guys singing the praises of the G. Barnes book, cananyone tell me a source for it besides Anglers Art? I tried one addresson the web that was posted a few weeks ago and I cant get it to work.Anyhelp appreciated. Ed M. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun May 10 18:56:34 1998 Mon, 11 May 1998 07:56:20 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Simplicity On Sun, 10 May 1998, Bill Fink wrote: To the list,Can't believe what is appearing on this list! What happened to the cultofcosmetic perfection? What about the prospective customer withmagnifierchecking for wrap exactness? (who maybe couldn't cast across thestreet).What's really important is how a rod, maybe even a first rod casts andfishes? For most of us this is supposed to be fun. Let's hear it for GeorgeBarnes and let's encourage him to get out another edition with a pictureofTom's new simplified binder.. Bill Some-one should graph the mood of the list, it'd be interesting. I think it's reached a high. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from RVenneri@aol.com Sun May 10 18:56:39 1998 Subject: Re: Downlocking reelseat needed Reed ,It is possible I may be able to make one for you. What I would need is apicture and some dimensions. If it can be turned or milled I will give it atry. Bob VVenneri's Custom Components21 Chuck Hill RoadSaugerties N Y 12477914 246 5882 from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun May 10 19:25:20 1998 (204.50.77.89) Subject: Re: training wheels Rick,you are not hurting my feelings, just my sick sense of humour.Whether you use a hand plane or use a $2500 hand scraping machine, youstillhave to go through basically the same motions. stanleyplanes in a row and get planing and watch the shavings fly. A stupid idea Iknow but the same results could be achieved.I happen to believe that the particular beveller is rather expensive forwhat it does and warned builders to the fact that they should check it outfirst. I noticed that one guy that had seen it working noted how fast a buttsection could be made. The real test of course is a tip section, which I donot think was demonstrated. Also there was some very profficientbuildersroad testing the machine which does not mean that we could all do asgood.Many of the bevellers of the famous builders such as Payne and Dickersonwhen they changed hands could not be run like the masters run them.I am by nature a sceptic and have learned not to expect too much frompeoplethen I am not dissapointed. Last year whilst I was waiting for my overdueshipment from my usual supplier a guy called Royer came from out ofnowherewith a promise to supply really good cane. I made a usual sneering type ofremark pointing out that if a dealer that has been in business for ahundredyears cannot get a guaranteed supply then how can a new kid on the blockgive us the goods. I was wrong ,seriously wrong, I recently purchasedsomeof his cane and it was super.Terry stpete wrote: Terry, I posted the original note critizing you. Although I didn't name you,it was obvious who I was posting about. I want to hear your commentsregarding rodbuilding. I didn't mean to hurt your sensitive feelings.Personally, I used a self-made wooden planing form on my first rod. I'mnow finishing up my homemade steel forms. I have one block plane(Record), no lathe, one $89 drill press, a homemade bamboo froe, ahomemade workbench, a homemade roddipping tube, one of the early andinexpensive versions of Jon Lintvet's binder and splicing blocks, and ahomemade wrapping jig. My one real expense has been a bundle of Royerbamboo. I'm committed there, and deep! I have not bought every gadget, nor attempted to make every new gadget.I do, however, want to learn all I can about new ways to make betterrods or save time. My criticism was based on the fact that almost every post I read fromyou was about how someone else is full of #@$%. What's bugging youabout a guy who saw a neat machine and wanted to post the list aboutit?Try to stay positive. If someone is full of it, and he leads some othergullible wannabes down the proverbial primrose path, what is it to you?I find most folks on the list here to be well meaning if not wellinformed. Most, in fact, denigrate their own skills and knowledge ofthe art. Well informed and inquisitive types soon separate the fact from the bull$^%&. If someone thinks they can buy the experience andskills to become proficient at this, let them lay out the cash. I too read George Barnes book first, and was inspired by his simpleapproach, but it wasn't until I learned of ADJUSTABLE forms that Ithought my impatient and scattered mind might be able to make auseablerod. (sorry George, I didn't think I could make it 'free handing' in astraight tapered planing form, I never gave it a shot). Anyhow, inquiring about a machine is one thing. Slamming it andclaiming it impossible without knowing how it works is another. Rick from flyrod@artistree.com Sun May 10 19:26:26 1998 RAA28528 Subject: Anybody got a Hardy? Reed & others,Does anyone have a Hardy taper they could post? I've been wanting to takealook at the Hardy rods stress curves but can't find any tapers for them.Any help would be appreciated. Thank You.Best Regards,Chris Wohlford Reed F. Curry wrote: Does anyone have either an F.E. Thomas downlocking reelseat I may buy,or one of the Hardy reelseats? I need a replacement seat for an old, butbeloved, rod.Thanks,Reedrcurry@top.monad.net from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun May 10 19:28:32 1998 (204.50.77.89) Subject: Re: Simplicity Bill,that is the most sensible idea I have heard for a whileTerry Bill Fink wrote: To the list,Can't believe what is appearing on this list! What happened to the cultofcosmetic perfection? What about the prospective customer withmagnifierchecking for wrap exactness? (who maybe couldn't cast across thestreet).What's really important is how a rod, maybe even a first rod casts andfishes? For most of us this is supposed to be fun. Let's hear it for GeorgeBarnes and let's encourage him to get out another edition with a pictureofTom's new simplified binder.. Bill from saweiss@flash.net Sun May 10 19:40:40 1998 Subject: Re: I'm here to learn Harry,If it gives you pleasure, do it!If you have the time and the patience, you can feel good about restoringthebasket case. I intend to do a few so I can learn and have the confidence totake on complex repairs. Besides, you will be bringing a rod back forfutureuse that probably provided several people with years of good experiences.It may not be a Payne or a Garrison, but so what?I have learned and gotten pleasure from re-building an old Montague thatoriginally sold for $3.00 to a condition that is better now than when itleft the factory. I fished with it, caught some nice browns and if I neverfish with it again, it was worth the effort.Someone who has to make a living from rodmaking and restoration would,understandably, think that such an effort is a waste of time.You should be the judge of that.Steve Weiss from sats@gte.net Sun May 10 19:47:27 1998 Subject: Re: Home Grown Power Fibers TAA20239 Pre and post WWII production rod people (such as Montague and Horrocks- Ibbotson) used many sizes as opposed to today's practice of not mixingculms.At that time popular sizes for specific rod sections were 46" x 1-1-1/4"and54" x 1-1-1/4", both of which had adequate power fibers If you look at the end of a production rod from that period, you'll see anexample of this. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from flyfisher@cmix.com Sun May 10 20:05:12 1998 Subject: Short sections - was Re: I'm here to learn RO> Now, for the obligatory rod-building question - WhenRO>is an old rod too far gone to try to restore it? If theRO>only remaining tip is down a foot, and the mid down an inchRO>at each end, and half the ferrules are missing, can it stillRO>be done? Maybe more relevant, should it still be done? RO>Harry Boyd Harry, The tip can be replaced or scarfed. The other breaks are not asimportant, IMHO. Ferrules are $2.50 - $50 a set, so it all depends onthe rod's value when refinished and how much you've got into it. I'm reworking an 8' Heddon #125 (3/2), it's problems include: Two short tips (ferrule end), a cracked tip (mid way up), a short mid(at the female ferrule) and missing the ferrules for the mid/tips. A Mint rod of this model is worth - maybe $400 - $500. I can scarf the sections out of junk-bin stuff, the original ferrulehappens to be a close match for a Cortland ferrule set ($35) and so Ican put about a total of about $40 worth of materials (including threadetc) into the rod and hope to be able to sell it for $200 - $300. owned a taper form) I'm doing it as a challege because I'm crazy Ifit was a $50 Montague - why bother. If it was a $10,000 Gillum, someonewould claim it was restored by the finest craftsman .... and worth$11,000. Don B. from flyfisher@nextdim.com Sun May 10 20:10:36 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id AE976FC01AC; Sun, 10 May 1998 18:04:23 PDT Subject: Re: Anybody got a Hardy? Hi all, here are two Hardy tapers,"Palakona" C. C, de France Hardy "Phantom"7' 2pc. 5" stations 8'6" 2pc. 5"stations.295 .350.235.275 .350.225.263 .350.214.255 .340.200.240 .325.193.230 .310.180.217 .290.163.200 .280.148.190 .265.130.177 .255.112.165 .245.090.154.080.138.120.103..085 Dell Coppock,"IN THE GREAT NORTHWEST"http://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e- mail flyfisher@nextdim.com-----Original Message----- Subject: Anybody got a Hardy? Reed & others,Does anyone have a Hardy taper they could post? I've been wanting to takealook at the Hardy rods stress curves but can't find any tapers for them.Any help would be appreciated. Thank You.Best Regards,Chris Wohlford Reed F. Curry wrote: Does anyone have either an F.E. Thomas downlocking reelseat I may buy,or one of the Hardy reelseats? I need a replacement seat for an old, butbeloved, rod.Thanks,Reedrcurry@top.monad.net from flyfisher@nextdim.com Sun May 10 20:18:40 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id A07D70501AC; Sun, 10 May 1998 18:12:29 PDT Subject: Re: Anybody got a Hardy? Boy did I screw- up, I'll try again.-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Anybody got a Hardy? Hi all, here are two Hardy tapers,"Palakona" C. C, de France Hardy "Phantom"7' 2pc. 5" stations 8'6" 2pc. 5"stations.295 .350.235.275 .350.225.263 .350.214.255 .340.200.240 .325.193.230 .310.180.217 .290.163.200 .280.148.190 .265.130.177 .255.112.165 .245.090.154.080.138.120.103..085 Dell Coppock,"IN THE GREAT NORTHWEST"http://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e- mail flyfisher@nextdim.com-----Original Message-----From: C.J. Wohlford Date: Sunday, May 10, 1998 5:28 PMSubject: Anybody got a Hardy? Reed & others,Does anyone have a Hardy taper they could post? I've been wanting totakealook at the Hardy rods stress curves but can't find any tapers for them.Any help would be appreciated. Thank You.Best Regards,Chris Wohlford Reed F. Curry wrote: Does anyone have either an F.E. Thomas downlocking reelseat I may buy,or one of the Hardy reelseats? I need a replacement seat for an old, butbeloved, rod.Thanks,Reedrcurry@top.monad.net from tbeckfam@pacbell.net Sun May 10 20:22:06 1998 mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id SAA13797 for Subject: Re: matriarchs of the list Terence Ackland wrote: Jerry Foster wrote: So, what's your point? Harriett Foster The point is Harriet, I thought the list was to encourage newrodmakers, not be a kind of info-mercial on gadgets.Terry I, being a new rod maker, have not been discouraged by anything Ihave read on this list. I have been under the impression that thepurpose of the list was for rodmakers of all levels to shareinformation. The encouragement, for me, has come from sitting back andabsorbing the knowlege and opinions of more experienced makers. Theopinions on this list are so diverse that it has taught me to experimentand decide what works for me. I also have developed a large list ofmessages for "resources" that I may never have found if I did not seesomeones post who wanted to sell something. It is a small thing to meto put up with dogmatic opinions in exchange for the knowlege that Ihave gained from the entire list, including those with the dogmaticopinions. Some of the best rodmakers in the world are on this list!They can afford to have strong opinions. What I am trying to say is,the list and all its attributes are an encouragement for me as long aspeople are willing to share their knowlege and remain friendly.But thatsonly my opinion. I hope this is in context with the original post. sincerly,Traver Becker from flyfisher@nextdim.com Sun May 10 20:29:48 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id A31915400F4; Sun, 10 May 1998 18:23:37 PDT Subject: Re: Anybody got a Hardy? Maybe a different format will work.Hardy "Phantom" 8'6" 2pc. on 5" stations,.350,.350,.350,.340,.325,.310,.310,.290,.280,.265,.255,.245,.235,.225,.214,.200,.193,.180,.163,.148,.130,.112,.090,.080.Hardy "Palakona" C. C. de France 7' 2pc..295,.275,.263,.255,.240,.230,.217,.200,.190,.177,.165,.154,.138,.120,.103,.085Sorry about that,Dell Coppock,"IN THE GREAT NORTHWEST"http://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail flyfisher@nextdim.com- ----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Anybody got a Hardy? Hi all, here are two Hardy tapers,"Palakona" C. C, de France Hardy "Phantom"7' 2pc. 5" stations 8'6" 2pc. 5"stations.295 .350.235.275 .350.225.263 .350.214.255 .340.200.240 .325.193.230 .310.180.217 .290.163.200 .280.148.190 .265.130.177 .255.112.165 .245.090.154.080.138.120.103..085 Dell Coppock,"IN THE GREAT NORTHWEST"http://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e- mail flyfisher@nextdim.com-----Original Message-----From: C.J. Wohlford Date: Sunday, May 10, 1998 5:28 PMSubject: Anybody got a Hardy? Reed & others,Does anyone have a Hardy taper they could post? I've been wanting totakealook at the Hardy rods stress curves but can't find any tapers for them.Any help would be appreciated. Thank You.Best Regards,Chris Wohlford Reed F. Curry wrote: Does anyone have either an F.E. Thomas downlocking reelseat I may buy,or one of the Hardy reelseats? I need a replacement seat for an old, butbeloved, rod.Thanks,Reedrcurry@top.monad.net from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Sun May 10 20:52:40 1998 ; Mon, 11 May 1998 13:52:15 +1200 Subject: Re: Anybody got a Hardy? At 05:30 PM 10/05/98 -0800, you wrote: Chris I have a number of Hardy rods but mainly in the 9' and 10' sizes . I willrun the caliper over them if they are the size you are looking for . regards iank Reed & others,Does anyone have a Hardy taper they could post? I've been wanting to takealook at the Hardy rods stress curves but can't find any tapers for them.Any help would be appreciated. Thank You.Best Regards,Chris Wohlford.Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email iank@nelson.planet.org.nz from Molly1011@aol.com Sun May 10 21:12:23 1998 Subject: Re: rod finish thanks john I'll try thinning the finish a bit more. I have been sandinginbetween coats and the corners are sharp as hell. I put on that final coatand whammo!!!! the flats are rounded. thanks again and wish me luck on thefinish thinning thing. erik from kgabd@clsp.uswest.net Sun May 10 21:15:36 1998 Subject: Re: Home Grown Power Fibers DEMARALON wrote: I would like to put my 2 cents into the discussion. It would be a great feat of genetic engineerng if the rodmaker couldgrowrodmaker-quality Tonkin on his "back 40." Under identical conditions asHuajii hillsides, it is doubtful that any American farmer could afford tosit another 5years for the selected culms to reach full maturity. (See pages 295-298ofthe McClure report contained in "The Angler's Bamboo" by Luis Marden. According to the most recent figures received - Huajii County, the maintonkingrowing area, had 37,000 acres devoted to Arundinaria Amabalis in 1990andexported 13,282 metric tons of all sizes and descriptions that year. Theapproximate USA annual import of rodmaker size Tonkin in metric tonsaveraged: 1976-80 52 tons per year1981-85 46 tons per year1986-90 24 tons per year1991-95 33 tons per year Rodmakers might be better served in choosing culms with the best powerfibersif they took note of two easy tests. First: The so-called farmers' marksareplaced on the culm in the field just before or during harvest to identifythebest canes in the harvest. This enhances the processor's ability to setasidethe selected quality that rodmakers are seeking. In many cases therodmakercan completely plane off the farmers' marks and still have plenty ofpowerfibers for the finsihed rod,. Second: Power fibers in depth are afunctionof maturity - at least 4 years for the average culm and 5 to 6 years for aheavier layer. To compare one culm with another of the samespecification -compare the weight. Dry, warehouse, USA weights of 5 year-maturitycaneshould be 5 - 5-1/2 lbs. for 12' x 1-3/4 - 2" and 6 to 7 lbs. for 12' x 2 -2-1/2". Lighter weights might indicate middle cuts with leaf buds nearthetip plus excessive taper and thin walls. The 5 year maturity figures areconfirmed by actual in-warehouse bale weights of our February '98arrival. Pre and post WWII production rod people (such as Montague and Horrocks- Ibbotson) used many sizes as opposed to today's practice of not mixingculms.At that time popular sizes for specific rod sections were 46" x 1-1-1/4"and54" x 1-1-1/4", both of which had adequate power fibers Harold Demarest Harold, where is all of the BAMBOO going if the US is only impotringabout 6 tons of 13000 tons exported? Kevin. from FLYROD777@aol.com Sun May 10 21:51:43 1998 Subject: Re: Chicago Rodmakers at Coren's Rod and Reel Thanks Ed for getting the word out on such a fun night. Dispite the rain,casting other rods and talking straight rod stories and seeing how othersdidvarious functions of rod making really helped me. Looks as if a majorityareheading to Grayrock. See everyone there. Mark from flyrod@artistree.com Sun May 10 22:03:33 1998 UAA25135 Subject: Re: Anybody got a Hardy? Ian,That would be great! Just pick your favorite 9'. I don't want you to gothroughtoo much trouble. Thank you very much for your help. Best Regards, Chris Wohlford Ian Kearney wrote: At 05:30 PM 10/05/98 -0800, you wrote: Chris I have a number of Hardy rods but mainly in the 9' and 10' sizes . I willrun the caliper over them if they are the size you are looking for . regards iank from flyrod@artistree.com Sun May 10 22:07:49 1998 UAA25256 Subject: Re: Anybody got a Hardy? Dell,He, he, he,.....You had me going there but I got it. Thank you very much! :)Best Regards,Chris Wohlford Dell wrote: Maybe a different format will work.Hardy "Phantom" 8'6" 2pc. on 5" stations,.350,.350,.350,.340,.325,.310,.310,.290,.280,.265,.255,.245,.235,.225,.214,.200,.193,.180,.163,.148,.130,.112,.090,.080.Hardy "Palakona" C. C. de France 7' 2pc. .295,.275,.263,.255,.240,.230,.217,.200,.190,.177,.165,.154,.138,.120,.103,.085Sorry about that,Dell Coppock,"IN THE GREAT NORTHWEST"http://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail flyfisher@nextdim.com from rodsmiths@imt.net Sun May 10 22:32:40 1998 cu.imt.net(8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA04839 for ;Sun, 10 Subject: Re: Cutter Angles Terence Ackland wrote: are these cutters out of the box carbide milling cutter inserts designedformetal removal or has the geometry been optimized for cane?Terry Tom Morgan & Gerri Carlson wrote: rodmakers- I have a wide variety of cutters available for my Bamboo Hand Milldepending on the preference of the rodmakers. For six strip rods thereare 60 degree or 61 1/2 degree, for five strip 72 degree or 73 1/2degree and for four strip rods 90 or 92 degree cutters. from myexperience the slightly bigger angle glues with excellent strengthwhileproviding tight seams. However, it is not my goal to try to persuadeanyone to use a different cutter angle. I am only passing on some of myexperience. Tom Morgan Hi Terry, The Carbide cutters are inserts for standard cutting tools. They dohave a chip breaker that allows the bamboo to "flow" off the stripmaking it much easier to cut with than a standard flat face insert. They also have a positive rake which helps. Tom Morgan from GCRODBEAR@aol.com Mon May 11 00:30:47 1998 Subject: Re: An expirenced comment Howdy, My name is Steve Jenkins. My father is C.W. Jenkins. We have beenbuildingcane rods together for quite sometime now, although dad was themastermindbehind behind the whole process. He, pretty much, based everything onknowledge gained from Garrison and Carmicheal, some being first handinformation. This cane rod experience has been an interesting voyage. I remeber beingveryyoung, picking Tonkin slpinters out of my hands from culms of cane thatDadhad purchased from Demerest thirty years ago propped agianst the fence inourbackyard in Denver. I, of course, being young and stupid, thought they weresome new concept in playground equipment. My wife and moved to Grand Canyon, Az. at the begining of this year and Ihaveset up a garage shop to continue building rods. After the move I waspriviliged to be able to get on-line, an attempt to keep in touch with thereal world. At my request, an extremely talented, rod buildingacquaintancein Wyoming suggested I check out this web-site. It has been a real education. Dad has always told me, "Anyone can build acane rod, but to build a good one takes a hell of a lot of work." I continueto live by these words. What bothers me about a lot of the e-mail that Ireadhere is the fact that people seem to get so confoundley nasty about things.There's no need to. Folks should do things the way that works best forthem.I know that I'm still learning, so I don't put alot of confidence in rumor ofwhat works best. It's all a process of trial and error. So I suggest that people try and error. To sum things up, I've been involved in this thing, off and on, for close toforty years. Believe me, there are no concrete answers to most of thequestions I read on-line. Unfortunately, we all have to go to work and findwhat works best for us. Building a good cane rod is 20% tools, 5%materials,and 75% trying to make them work together successfully. I wish all of youthebest luck. Trust me, arguing about it is all a waste of time. Steve JenkinsThe C.W. Jenkins Fly Rod > from Nodewrrior@aol.com Mon May 11 01:20:491998 Subject: Re: rod finish Erik'I use the Varmor too. Make sure to sand between coats. try a slowerwithdrawalrate with your motor too. Check to be sure the viscosity of the varnish itwhere it was when new. I find it takes a few weeks for the stuff to reallycure and shrink tightly to the rod. Rob Hoffhines from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Mon May 11 01:31:09 1998 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA22180 +0000 Subject: Re: Garrison As an engineer, I must take exception with your statement (below). Exceptwherehealth and safety are involved, an engineer's job is to design somethingthat meetsagreed-upon design objectives. An engineer MUST also have training inhumanitiesand ethics so that should his/her employer request something that doescompromisepublic health or safety, the engineer won't comply. However, in some cases "over-engineering" is nonsensical and wastesmoney. Theengineer who first designs a 10 year facial tissue didn't understand theproblem! Regards,George Bourke ----------From: john channer Subject: GarrisonDate: Sunday, May 10, 1998 4:57 AM it is the purpose of an engineer to over build and overdesign whatever he may be working on in order to insure the function andlongetivity of the project at hand( these days, also to avoid thepossibility of litigation in case of failure). John Channer from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon May 11 07:41:44 1998 Subject: Mail Would John Cole please contact me off list. I can't get mail to you. from destinycon@mindspring.com Mon May 11 07:44:13 1998 Subject: Re: An expirenced comment Steve,Sure sounds like Cabin Fever to me. I'll bet we have a gentler listonce the streams clear, sometimes we loose sight of what it's all about.But it does make for interesting reading.Gary H. At 01:29 AM 5/11/98 EDT, you wrote:Howdy, My name is Steve Jenkins. My father is C.W. Jenkins. We have beenbuildingcane rods together for quite sometime now, although dad was themastermindbehind behind the whole process. He, pretty much, based everything onknowledge gained from Garrison and Carmicheal, some being first handinformation. This cane rod experience has been an interesting voyage. I remeber beingveryyoung, picking Tonkin slpinters out of my hands from culms of cane thatDadhad purchased from Demerest thirty years ago propped agianst the fencein ourbackyard in Denver. I, of course, being young and stupid, thought theyweresome new concept in playground equipment. My wife and moved to Grand Canyon, Az. at the begining of this year and Ihaveset up a garage shop to continue building rods. After the move I waspriviliged to be able to get on-line, an attempt to keep in touch with thereal world. At my request, an extremely talented, rod buildingacquaintancein Wyoming suggested I check out this web-site. It has been a real education. Dad has always told me, "Anyone can build acane rod, but to build a good one takes a hell of a lot of work." I continueto live by these words. What bothers me about a lot of the e-mail that Ireadhere is the fact that people seem to get so confoundley nasty aboutthings.There's no need to. Folks should do things the way that works best forthem.I know that I'm still learning, so I don't put alot of confidence in rumor ofwhat works best. It's all a process of trial and error. So I suggest that people try and error. To sum things up, I've been involved in this thing, off and on, for close toforty years. Believe me, there are no concrete answers to most of thequestions I read on-line. Unfortunately, we all have to go to work andfindwhat works best for us. Building a good cane rod is 20% tools, 5%materials,and 75% trying to make them work together successfully. I wish all ofyouthebest luck. Trust me, arguing about it is all a waste of time. Steve JenkinsThe C.W. Jenkins Fly Rod from stpete@netten.net Mon May 11 07:45:30 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA18192 for Subject: [Fwd: Re: training wheels] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5E2F7D014FA9 Jon, I am responding on list because I certainly didn't mean to imply thatyour tools were now expensive! On the contrary, I found them to bequite a value when compared to the time and expense I'd have to go to inorder to make one myself. They are certainly less expensive than theother sources I found. I'm not commenting on the other sources either,as I understand their quality is first rate, but the price is muchhigher. Your tools work, they are relatively inexpensive. I boughtthem the first time round, so I guess I got the 'guinea pig' price. Iunderstand you learn a lot with experience - better product, better ideaof what it really costs you. Sorry if I made it sound as if your pricesare now high! Rick --------------5E2F7D014FA9 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.1); Sun,10May 1998 23:05:32 -0400Comments: Authenticated sender is Subject: Re: training wheels Priority: normal Thanks for the name dropping. I hope you are not implying my tools are expensive now? The only reasons the prices got inflated was because I realized how much time a unit really took to produce. Take care, Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ --------------5E2F7D014FA9-- from dryfly@erols.com Mon May 11 08:14:11 1998 0400 "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Subject: Shell Epon I'm gluing up a blank in the next day or so and have been using URAC185but I'm wanted to try Shell Epon. What mix ratio of resin and hardener should I use for Shell Epon? I wasn't sure if I should use what the instructions prescribed or not. In addition, can I accelerate the drying/setting time hour? ThanksBob from jcole10@juno.com Mon May 11 08:31:52 1998 09:30:24 EDT Subject: Re: Mail Tom Thanks for trying. My E- Mail Address is jcole10@juno.com (no spacingbetween letters) I do that a lot and can't get through. John ColeOn Mon, 11 May 1998 08:40:05 EDT TSmithwick writes:Would John Cole please contact me off list. I can't get mail to you. _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon May 11 09:12:45 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: bamboo milling machine cost is $1995 + shipping US ----------From: Robert Clarke[SMTP:rclarke@eou.edu] Sent: Friday, May 08, 1998 4:55 PM Subject: Re: bamboo milling machine John, no mention of actual m----y, or w--e, or d-----s. Just that itc---sa bunch! Robert Clarke anyway, I have to agree with Terry every now and then. ----------From: john channer Subject: re: bamboo milling machineDate: Friday, May 08, 1998 10:46 AM Hi ! All;Do me a favor, if any of you figure out how much it costs to gear uptomake rods, PLEASE don't post it on the list. I went to a great dealoftrouble to spread things around between cash, checks and severalcreditcards just so I wouldn't know. Its fun, I enjoy it, and thinkingaboutthemoney I have spent will just throw a big wet blanket over the wholething,besides, if my wife ever finds out how much I have spent I will beindeeps**t. And please don't post any responses with the words "wife" or"money"in the heading! from saltwein@swbell.net Mon May 11 09:30:33 1998 gw2adm.rcsntx.swbell.net JAA04139 Subject: milward binder What do you use to set the thread tension? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon May 11 09:37:00 1998 Subject: sharpening blades Have tried several of the recommendations from the archives, but for methemost frustrating step is trying to get a really sharp plane blade. I DO getit, after about 4-5 hours of sharpening (3-4 blades). Even then, the bladeedge doesn't seem to be "true." Here is what I am doing (based primarily from the Cattanach book). Now, what am I doing WRONG?1. I use a plate glass shelf for the platform.2. True up the stone (both sides) on wet/dry sandpaper prior to sharpening.3. Use a squared jig to place the blade in the holder (it IS square!).4. Begin sharpening on the course side first. Every time I do this, itseems that I have to re establish the blade angle all over again.5. Once the angle is sharp from edge to edge and top to bottom, I go to thefine side.6. When I begin sharpening on the fine side of the stone, and not havingremoved the blade from the holder, it seems that I have to re establish theangle ALL OVER again, edge to edge, top to bottom.Gets quite frustrating, to the point that I am inclined to go to the"Scarey Sharp" sharpening system. However, I must admit, the blades finally do get sharp. Sorry to interfere with the more "philosophical" debates going on with a"real" question, but I do appreciate any help, flames or no!Jerry Snider. from William_Lamberson@muccmail.missouri.edu Mon May 11 09:45:571998 0500 Subject: Re[2]: FW: bamboo milling machine Calculation of the cross-sectional area of bamboo in rods planed at 61.5 degrees versus those planed at 60 degrees indicate that about 3% of the bamboo is replaced by glue in the former. It appears that the percentage is independent of the width of the hexagon. Is that so much that we should be concerned? Bill Lamberson ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: FW: bamboo milling machineAuthor: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu at MU-Internet -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: FW: bamboo milling machine Just to put the increased angle (61.5 degrees) to into some perspective. Ifyou are making a rod with a butt end of .260" the maximum gap between adjacent strips will be less than 4 thou (0.1mm in real units) and the "hole" down the middle will be about 3 thou (0.08 mm). This assumesthere will be no deformation of the strips (which will decrease this) when you bind/glue them. IT would be interesting to hear if any of the hand planers use this trick and, if so, how they made their forms. Just my 0.02 worth (South African which is worth a lot less than 0.02US) Steve Leach -----Original Message-----From: DR. STEVEN A. WEISS [SMTP:saweiss@flash.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 1998 8:18 PM Subject: Re: FW: bamboo milling machine Increasing the angle to hide the glue line is an OLD woodworker's trick. The price you pay is a greater mass of glue inside the joint. In this case,substituting glue for bamboo. This will add to the variation in action due to glue. A while back, Wayne C. reminded us to pay attention to detail, particularly at the end of each step. Garrison rejected this trick and even thinned his glue to get closer approximation of the strips and better penetration of the glue.Just a beginner's opinion.Steve Weiss Multiplied times six = .024" filled with glue. It seems that it becomes a greater percentage of the rod as the sections get thinner, but someone would have to calculate some cross-sectional percentages. from Fallcreek9@aol.com Mon May 11 10:14:32 1998 Subject: Re: rod finish In a message dated 98-05-11 02:27:22 EDT, you write: Erik - I think the advice you have gotten up to now is right on the mark. Iwould like to add somthing, though not specifically addressing your statedconcerns. The Var Mor lable has instructions to thoroughly stir thevarnishbefore use. I began to have trouble with Var Mor until that was noticed.Have an old rod section that serves well. I hold the larger end, insert itand stir like crazy (hard to do in a 1-1/4" tube). Then, several quick pullsup and hold a moment for draining and repeat. I only stir when the varnishhas stood unused a few days. One note: despite using the oxygen blockingmaterial as well as the recommended teaspoon of mineral spirits, my VarMorbegins to set up after a prolonged period of non use. So, I now store it inthe coldest area of the shop which seems to help. Regards,Richard Tyree from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Mon May 11 10:17:24 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id KAA08823 for (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id KAA06938 for ; Mon, 11 May1998 Subject: Re: milward binder I use a soft rod tip, say from an old fiberglass rod. (I supposeyou could use a scale or make one from a board and a spring.) You need to check 2 ways. First, check that the rod tip runs thrustraight. If one thread is too tight (or the others too loose),it will be obvious because the thin tip will be pulled toward the tight binder. Second, check that the tip runs thru withoutrolling. If it rolls, then both threads on one binder head are tighter than on the other. This can tend to twist the blank. (I amassuming you have two threads on each of the two pulleys.) It takes a little tweaking to get the tension right, but its a nifty binder, isn't it?......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Mon, 11 May 1998, Steve Trauthwein wrote: What do you use to set the thread tension? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon May 11 10:18:42 1998 Subject: Re: Binder for Amateurs RO>In a message dated 98-05-06 22:01:16 EDT, you write: RO>haveRO> glued up numerous rods by hand with thread being fed off an old reelwith aRO> few lbs. pressure. I see no reason why wooden wheels would not workasRO> replacements for the pullys >> RO>Harry, Tom: I built a Milward-type binder and made the 4 pullys fromPoplarRO>which was completely satisfactory. Tom, your one-spool, one wheel RO>two passes is brilliant by comparison. Keeping four tensioners in syncis aRO>problem. Think I will convert mine forthwith. Thanks for the idea.RO>Regards,RO>Richard The local OHS hardware store has cast pulleys and they also havehandwheels (with knobs) - I bet a handwheel with a "rubber tire" wouldwork also. A 2nd handwheel could maybe be used and would have a holepredrilled for the thread tensioner's mounting bolt. Just an Idea. Don Burns from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon May 11 10:21:27 1998 Subject: RE:sharpening blades Jerry, Sounds like your stone is flat, but not square. (Just a guess) Don Burns from dhaftel@att.com Mon May 11 10:34:21 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) (5.5.1960.3) Subject: Water Hi List, Looks like this weather has just about everyone on edge this weekend. Ilive in "Joisey" and haven't seen the sun for about a week now... I was wondering how everyone keeps their strips of cane relatively dry,short of only building in the winter, while working on an individual strip.I think someone said they were using a 100 watt light bulb/drying cabinetsetup to keep moisture from re-entering the bamboo during the finalplaningoperations. Has anyone tried using that kind of arrangement in their oven(I'm thinking of the heat gun type of oven here)? I just got my paws onsome stovepipe & end caps, and before I build, I may try to concoct aceramic light socket base for my "oven". Since the humidity is usuallyaround a zillion percent here I "gotta do something"! Any ideas? Dennis Haftel from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Mon May 11 11:08:09 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id LAA27964 for (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id LAA00810 for ; Mon, 11 May1998 Subject: Re: Water Dennis, My basement shop starts getting humid about May, also. I didsome experiments, and moisture re-entry after heat treating doesaffect the dimensions (widths) of strips quite a bit. I tried a lightbulb heater, but it seemed like lightbulbs were burning out too fast (I'm taking weeks to plane a rod; an hour here and there), so I wanted something that wouldn't use much juice and keep running for a long time. So here is what I did: I made a heater from an old, 2-inch aluminum rod tube, the innardsof a 33 watt heating pad ( from a resale shop), a couple rolls of electrical tape and a package of fiberglass pipe insulation. Thetube is grounded and I plug it into a GFI curcuit, and so far I'veavoided electrocution. It keeps the strips ~125F according to a candy thermometer of unknown accuracy. The whole outfit hangs horizontally from the floor joists overhead, so it is out of the way. Another issue is getting the cane dry earlier in the process, beforeheat treating. It seems to take about a week at ~130F to drive outmuch moisture. Lower temps don't dry it at a reasonable rate. ThisI do in a bigger oven. I'm a beginner at this; you may get better advise from an experiencedbuilder.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot- warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Mon, 11 May 1998, Haftel, Dennis Jay wrote: Hi List, Looks like this weather has just about everyone on edge this weekend. Ilive in "Joisey" and haven't seen the sun for about a week now... I was wondering how everyone keeps their strips of cane relatively dry,short of only building in the winter, while working on an individual strip.I think someone said they were using a 100 watt light bulb/dryingcabinetsetup to keep moisture from re-entering the bamboo during the finalplaningoperations. Has anyone tried using that kind of arrangement in theiroven(I'm thinking of the heat gun type of oven here)? I just got my paws onsome stovepipe & end caps, and before I build, I may try to concoct aceramic light socket base for my "oven". Since the humidity is usuallyaround a zillion percent here I "gotta do something"! Any ideas? Dennis Haftel from saweiss@flash.net Mon May 11 12:15:09 1998 Subject: Re: Re[2]: FW: bamboo milling machine -----Original Message----- Subject: Re[2]: FW: bamboo milling machine Calculation of the cross-sectional area of bamboo in rods planed at61.5 degrees versus those planed at 60 degrees indicate that about 3%of the bamboo is replaced by glue in the former. It appears that thepercentage is independent of the width of the hexagon. Is that somuch that we should be concerned? Bill Lamberson 3% of the cross-sectional area would not seem to be much, but it is theeffect that could make a difference. Replace 3% of the gas in your gastankwith water and see what happens. Replace 3% of the oxygen in yourbreathingair with chlorine and see what happens. Anyway, there are so many variables that affect the final outcome, thatMYpreference, as someone who is not concerned with this HOBBY as animportantsource of income is to reduce the potential negative effects that are undermy control. Concealing the glue joint doesn't make me a better craftsman. Making theglue joint as small as possible through careful planing is my goal.Whatever makes one happy. Steve Weiss from thramer@presys.com Mon May 11 12:22:21 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Garrison john channer wrote: Terry;It might be a good idea for you to go back and re-read Garrison again. Ireally don't think you have a clear memory of what he says. Sure, he wasretentive to the n'th degree, but he basically got by with what he had orcould make for himself. Most of his tools, other than his form, he eithergot from his brother, or made for himself, making purchases asnecessaryand as his budget allowed. I think most of us that work with tools,whetherwe be rodmakers, carpenters, cabinet makers or what have you, tend tocollect as many tools and gadgets as we can afford(or not, depending onself discipline). Mr. G. was an engineer by education and therefore tookthe engineers approach to rodbuilding, that his methods were a littleovercomplicated should come as no surprise to anyone who has had occasiontodeal with them, it is the purpose of an engineer to over build and overdesign whatever he may be working on in order to insure the function andlongetivity of the project at hand( these days, also to avoid thepossibility of litigation in case of failure).As for the existence of"matrirchs of the list", I cannot figure out whom you may be refering to,in no instance that I have seem has there been any tone of "My way isright, all others are wrong". I, personally, value everything I have read,either on or off list, as the exposure to many differnt ways of doingthings has allowed me to develop my own ways. I might add that I haveasmuch appreciation for your comments as anyone else's. John Channer Engineers are paid to design(not build) a structure or tool to meet therequirements of the design and build in the least safety marginpossible.Then add the most complexity possible.A competent amateur will general overbuild his design. Without theadvantage? of formal education the amateur will build in a healthysafety margin and avoid any unneeded complexity.When I see that a tool has been 'engineered' it gives me theheebie-jeebies! I would hasten to add that engineers have their most important role toplay in society.A.J.Thramer from jcole10@juno.com Mon May 11 12:41:51 1998 13:40:34 EDT Subject: Re: Binder for Amateurs Don I am trying to build one of Tom's Binders and haven't had any luckfinding pulleys. Where did you find a hardware store that had the largeones, or the hand wheels you are going to use. An also looking for binderglace cotton binder twine. Any help would be appreciated. John ColeFather John's Custom RodsE-Mail jcole10@juno.com _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from saltwein@swbell.net Mon May 11 12:45:00 1998 gw1adm.rcsntx.swbell.net MAA04690 Subject: Re: sharpening blades Gets quite frustrating, to the point that I am inclined to go to the"Scarey Sharp" sharpening system.However, I must admit, the blades finally do get sharp. Sorry to interfere with the more "philosophical" debates going on with a"real" question, but I do appreciate any help, flames or no!Jerry Snider. Jerry, I went to the scary sharp system to start with. I use eight grits onsandpaper from 120 to 1500. I have them cut in 2" wide strips and gluethem to two sides of a piece of plate glass. After I have the blade sharp it is an easy task to touch it up on thefine grit side. I use a small wooden jig to set the depth of the bladein the sharpening jig. Works great for me. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon May 11 12:45:42 1998 Subject: RE:sharpening blades Would this still have an affect if I am using an on-the-stone blade holder?J. Snider.At 08:21 AM 5/11/98 -0600, you wrote:Jerry, Sounds like your stone is flat, but not square. (Just a guess) Don Burns Jerry Snidere-mail: Sniderja@email.uc.eduhttp://www.biology.uc.edu/snider/jerry.htm from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon May 11 12:50:21 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: FW: bamboo milling machine nobody said you did and if you keep your eyes and ears closed you willnever grow. This was just a report on something new and no one held agun to anyones head and said go do it. ----------From: Tony Young[SMTP:tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au] Sent: Saturday, May 09, 1998 3:01 AM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: FW: bamboo milling machine On Fri, 8 May 1998, Terence Ackland wrote: If someone is just starting out what the hell would he want aplaning millfor? You may think that is what they need but I dont. OK?I t costs enough already to build the Garrison way that mostbuilders haveto try to hawk rods to pay for the gear. Now you are adding more tothelist.Leave it out.Terry True, true. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from saltwein@swbell.net Mon May 11 12:52:24 1998 gw1adm.rcsntx.swbell.net MAA07420 Subject: Re: milward binder It takes a little tweaking to get the tension right, but its anifty binder, isn't it? It was great fun to build, and very much impressed all of my friends. Ihad a heck of a time getting the twist out of the first tip that I boundwith it. It was so bad I was looking at it and considering a spiral formy second rod! Perseverance won out and another rung was added to theexperience ladder. I am glad you mentioned the two spools on one side being too tight. That is evidently what my problem was. Thank you. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from SalarFly@aol.com Mon May 11 12:52:54 1998 Subject: Glue Lines (Was:bamboo milling machine) In a message dated 5/11/98 7:52:42 AM Pacific Daylight Time,William_Lamberson@muccmail.missouri.edu writes: Calculation of the cross-sectional area of bamboo in rods planed at 61.5 degrees versus those planed at 60 degrees indicate that about3% of the bamboo is replaced by glue in the former. It appears that the percentage is independent of the width of the hexagon. Is that so much that we should be concerned? I've never done this myself, but in thinking about it, wouldn't the edgesof the splines tend to compress together? The actual space betweenthe splines would be less due to the pressure from the binding string.After all, we are pressing an apex of a spline against the apex of thespline next to it. My concern would be if there was enough glue to hold the splines together near the edges where the splines are being squeezed together. With too much pressure the glue might get squeezed entirely out of that portion of the glue line. To me that would be worse than the amount of glue in the rod. Darryl Hayashida from thramer@presys.com Mon May 11 12:53:04 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Garrison irish-george@worldnet.att.net wrote: As an engineer, I must take exception with your statement (below). Exceptwherehealth and safety are involved, an engineer's job is to design somethingthat meetsagreed-upon design objectives. An engineer MUST also have training inhumanitiesand ethics so that should his/her employer request something that doescompromisepublic health or safety, the engineer won't comply. However, in some cases "over-engineering" is nonsensical and wastesmoney.Theengineer who first designs a 10 year facial tissue didn't understand theproblem! Regards,George Bourke ----------From: john channer Subject: GarrisonDate: Sunday, May 10, 1998 4:57 AM it is the purpose of an engineer to over build and overdesign whatever he may be working on in order to insure the functionandlongetivity of the project at hand( these days, also to avoid thepossibility of litigation in case of failure). John Channer The 10 yr facial tissue is called a handkerchief.A.J.Thramer from DEMARALON@aol.com Mon May 11 12:53:20 1998 Subject: Re: Home Grown Power Fibers To K.S, Garrity and ALL; The other 13200 tons goes toworld wide markets including plant stakes to fruit tree branch supportsand thousands of cnstruction usessuch as tropical decorative effectsetc--- etc . HAPPY ROD MAKING TO ALL DEMARALON from jcol@bccom.com Mon May 11 12:57:10 1998 0400 Subject: Re: Re[2]: FW: bamboo milling machine making the joint as tight as possible may become self defeating. Mostgluejoints needs some amount of space or the joint will fail due to starvation.Historically glue joints were roughened prior to gluing. Modern theory isthat this actually provides enough space for the initial glue up and is notthere to provide tooth for the surfaces. I know from personal experiencethat the best way to make an epoxy joint to fail is to make it too tight.Take that into consideration before making judgements. At 11:16 AM 5/11/98 -0600, you wrote: -----Original Message-----From: William_Lamberson@muccmail.missouri.edu Date: Monday, May 11, 1998 8:55 AMSubject: Re[2]: FW: bamboo milling machine Calculation of the cross-sectional area of bamboo in rods planed at61.5 degrees versus those planed at 60 degrees indicate that about3%of the bamboo is replaced by glue in the former. It appears that thepercentage is independent of the width of the hexagon. Is that somuch that we should be concerned? Bill Lamberson 3% of the cross-sectional area would not seem to be much, but it is theeffect that could make a difference. Replace 3% of the gas in your gastankwith water and see what happens. Replace 3% of the oxygen in yourbreathingair with chlorine and see what happens. Anyway, there are so many variables that affect the final outcome, thatMYpreference, as someone who is not concerned with this HOBBY as animportantsource of income is to reduce the potential negative effects that areundermy control. Concealing the glue joint doesn't make me a better craftsman. Making theglue joint as small as possible through careful planing is my goal.Whatever makes one happy. Steve Weiss from thramer@presys.com Mon May 11 12:57:51 1998 0000 Subject: Re: sharpening blades Jerry Snider wrote: Have tried several of the recommendations from the archives, but for methemost frustrating step is trying to get a really sharp plane blade. I DO getit, after about 4-5 hours of sharpening (3-4 blades). Even then, the bladeedge doesn't seem to be "true." Here is what I am doing (based primarily from the Cattanach book). Now, what am I doing WRONG?1. I use a plate glass shelf for the platform.2. True up the stone (both sides) on wet/dry sandpaper prior tosharpening.3. Use a squared jig to place the blade in the holder (it IS square!).4. Begin sharpening on the course side first. Every time I do this, itseems that I have to re establish the blade angle all over again.5. Once the angle is sharp from edge to edge and top to bottom, I go tothefine side.6. When I begin sharpening on the fine side of the stone, and not havingremoved the blade from the holder, it seems that I have to re establishtheangle ALL OVER again, edge to edge, top to bottom.Gets quite frustrating, to the point that I am inclined to go to the"Scarey Sharp" sharpening system.However, I must admit, the blades finally do get sharp. Sorry to interfere with the more "philosophical" debates going on with a"real" question, but I do appreciate any help, flames or no!Jerry Snider. Use a diamond stone, I use the 'red' one for plane blades. It takesabout 60 sec. to sharpen a blade. If you are having problems 'chipping'through the nodes you need to straighten the strips more thoroughly.I would be happy to answer a specific question if I CAN.a.j.THRAMER from jcol@bccom.com Mon May 11 13:00:38 1998 0400 Subject: Re: Garrison At 10:27 AM 5/11/98 -0700, you wrote: Engineers hate complexity with a passion. Complexity is usually added bythe marketing folks and not the engineers. (at least those that have towork with what they design) Engineers are paid to design(not build) a structure or tool to meet therequirements of the design and build in the least safety marginpossible.Then add the most complexity possible.A competent amateur will general overbuild his design. Without theadvantage? of formal education the amateur will build in a healthysafety margin and avoid any unneeded complexity.When I see that a tool has been 'engineered' it gives me theheebie-jeebies! I would hasten to add that engineers have their most important role toplay in society.A.J.Thramer from saltwein@swbell.net Mon May 11 13:01:23 1998 gw1adm.rcsntx.swbell.net NAA11408 Subject: Re: Water Since the humidity is usuallyaround a zillion percent here I "gotta do something"! Any ideas? Dennis, I'll tell you what I do, but I don't have any weighing evidence to backit up. When I get a grain scale I'll check it out for efficiency. I run a dehumidifier in my basement to get the humidity down some. Ikeep strips that I am working on in a tube of PVC with both endscapped. I half fill the tube with bamboo shavings that I havemicrowaved to dry them out, sort of a homemade dessicant. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO