from DBURRILL@TELEHUB.com Tue May 5 12:10:49 1998 Subject: RE: Thanks Patrick! -----Original Message-----From: Coffey, Patrick W [SMTP:Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com]Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 9:50 AM Subject: Tom Morgans web site is {SMTP:rodsmiths@imt.net} from flyrod@artistree.com Tue May 5 12:36:46 1998 KAA15714 Subject: Re: Fitting Ferrules Jon,If it's the Super Z, I just fitted one last week. They say it's .002oversized but it seemed like more. You have to be very patient, diligentand careful because of this. I carefully sanded down to first wear mark(this being the first line from the male's solid end). Try folding thatsandpaper into the thinnest strip possible when you get near the wearmark. I'll admit my first wear mark did get a little sanded. Also Isanded just a little with a 400 grit, then switched to a 600, thancleaned with steel wool and check fit, start process again. I know 400grit sounds dangerous but it would have taken me all day if I didn't useit to speed things up, just be very careful and check often. I wasbeginning to worry that I was tapering it but by using a very thin stripof sandpaper gave me better control and kept me from over sanding thearea that did fit. Finally did get a nice tight fit down to first wearmark that and it makes a hell of a popping noise but again it took along time. Just keep at it. Best Regards,Chris Wohlford Jon Lintvet wrote: I am having a dickens of a time final fitting the ferrule from REC onthis para. The male doesn't seem to work it's way down any furtherthan the first 3/16". Are you supposed to sand the wear marks orabove the wear marks? Arg! Jon Lintvet12B College CircleIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277- 9781www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue May 5 13:12:32 1998 Subject: RE:Rod Tube for Heddon #13 RO>I have a Heddon Model #13 flyrod. I amRO>looking for a Heddon aluminum tube for it.RO>It needs to be 38"-40" long, for flyrod.RO>The rod is 9"6', 3 pc. Thanks. JP JP, I've got one that 39-1/2" long x 1-5/8" dia. with the usually bumps andbangs, but I would only swap it for a shorter Heddon AL or fiber tube -since I am in need of several for 8'6" or 9' rods. Can do? Else I had planned on cutting it down to fit. Don BurnsFlyfisher@cmix.com or Canerods@aol.com from rmoon@ida.net Tue May 5 13:30:11 1998 Subject: Re: FFF Conclave Dear A.J. I have been following with some interest the thread on parabolicaction. I made one a long time ago, and still think that it was one ofthe most congenial rods to fish with I ever made. What I really wanted to talk to you about is the FFF Conclave in IdahoFalls the first week of August. I remember fondly the session we had inEugene, and I'd like to ask if you think that you might be able to doit again. The conclave will have a full day Bamboo Symposium, and thefirst session like that in Eugene will be a panel discussion of theMystique of the Bamboo Rod. As you may remember it seems to be theconsensus that there is an attitude of veneration aboout bamboo rods,and as we did before I'd like to have a panel forum to discuss it andother questions and observations. The Symposium will be August 5th(Wednesday). I plan to have a professional rod builder (Press Powell)an expert on restoration, a non-builder, but bamboo user, a beginningbuilder and not least an advanced builder of rods. Yourself. If you think that you might be able to make it, please e-mail me and Iwill send you some additional information. It is hard to think that ithas been 8 years since we were in Eugene, Thanks Ralph from cmj@post11.tele.dk Tue May 5 13:42:25 1998 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA21428 Subject: Sv: bamboo milling machine NAA14381 Patrick wrote Just received this email from Tom Morgan regarding his hand mill I sawdemonstrated at the conference at Merritt. PatrickPlease mail Tom Morgans address to the list. There must be others thanme,interested in the hand mill, regards Carsten from jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us Tue May 5 13:46:11 1998 with ESMTP id 335 for ;Tue, 5 May 1998 13:49:46 -0500 Subject: Re: FFF Conclave A.J. Please accept Ralph's invitation! I am sure many on the recent members ofthe listserve would like to meet you. I think your contributions would bevery valuable to the people who attend. I hope you will be there. Jim Kubichek Ralph W Moon wrote: Dear A.J. and not least an advanced builder of rods. Yourself. from rmoon@ida.net Tue May 5 13:56:33 1998 Subject: Re: Parabolics Hank I totally agree with your assessment of parabolic. I made one years agoand it was one of the nicest rods to fish with I ever made. I am very sorry I never got back to you on your inquiry about the BambooRod Symposium. I have ,between some health problems and running aroundlike a chicken with its head cut off , been lagging very far behind. Ihope that you are still planning to come out West this summer and thatyour plans include the conclave. I would be very pleased if you couldconsider helping at the Symposium You may already have heard that at the FFF International Conclave in Rod Symposium. The Symposium will be a full day affair on August 5th(Wednesday). The format of the Symposium will be divided into a morningand afternoon session. The Morning Session will be a panel forumdiscussion of the Mystique of the Bamboo Rod. We will have a smallpanel who will each explain his reason for being a Bamboo Aficionado.After that the audience will be invited to ask question and makecomments. The afternoon session will be a loosely structured series ofinformational departments each devoted to some aspect of rod making,rod exhibits, history, and a special department devoted to opportunity of talking with experts on virtually all phases of canerods. I would be pleased if you will accept my invitation to be one of theexperts in the afternoon session. I regret to say that the FFF has nobudget for either fees or expenses of the participants, but you areinvited to bring with you some of your work to show or sell. If youtake orders for rods or materials there is no problem if the delivery isnot in Idaho. If you deliver in Idaho you will need to collect IdahoSales Tax. We will have forms to this purpose. The variousdepartments for which I still need assistance are: Rod evaluation and identificationSplitting and straightening row stripsPlaningHeat TreatingAdhesivesBinding MachinesFinishing If you can help, please let me know at once, and I will send furtherinformation at that time. It will be necessary for you bring anysamples, materials, or equipment that you may deed. About all I canfurnish will be an identification sign and a table, although I will doeverything I can to assist you. Your responsibility as a participantwill be to serve as an expert in a department and to talk to, answerquestion for and explain techniques to the attendees.. I really hope that you can come and that you can help. I think it willbe a very well attended and informative symposium for all of us. Sincerely Ralph W. Moon777 So River Rd.St. Anthony, Idaho 83445208-624- 3206rmoon@ida.net from cmj@post11.tele.dk Tue May 5 14:06:41 1998 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA32274 Subject: Sv: Tom Morgans Homepage OAA17223 Thanks Patrick! -----Original Message-----From: Coffey, Patrick W [SMTP:Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com]Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 9:50 AM Subject: Tom Morgans web site is {SMTP:rodsmiths@imt.net} Patrick This URL does not work for me. Can You help? regards Carsten from Fallcreek9@aol.com Tue May 5 14:10:47 1998 Subject: Re: Heat Gun In a message dated 98-05-05 00:43:37 EDT, I wrote: John - Try Grangers 1-800-323-0620.... John - Make that "Grainger".RT from Finanplanr@aol.com Tue May 5 14:28:30 1998 beforged)) Subject: Re: Playing the dip... Dear Art, Cute...thanks for making my day! Regards,Stu from Finanplanr@aol.com Tue May 5 14:42:16 1998 Subject: Re: What have I found? Cross rod Brett, Thanks for the tip... Regards,Stu from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Tue May 5 14:43:06 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: bamboo milling machine OAA19660 on page 25 of the second issue of the Bamboo Fly Rod is a web site fortom Morgan and his phone number; 406-282-7110, his email address is{rodsmiths@imt.net} the web page address is http:www.troutrods.com , Idid a cusury look and didn't find his mill there but when I talked tohim at Merritt he showed me the brochure he sends out on request withvery good color photographs. ----------From: Carsten Jorgensen - DaniaFlyrods[SMTP:cmj@post11.tele.dk] Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 8:11 AM Subject: Sv: bamboo milling machine Patrick wrote Just received this email from Tom Morgan regarding his hand mill Isawdemonstrated at the conference at Merritt. PatrickPlease mail Tom Morgans address to the list. There must be others thanme, interested in the hand mill, regards Carsten from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Tue May 5 15:10:07 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.1); Tue,5May 1998 16:11:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Silk Thread Just wanted to let everyone know I will have some of this silk at the Northeast get together for everyone to look at. Lots of other toys also! Pearsalls Gossamer Silk is available in a wide range of colours and canbe ordered through Alec Jackson, their US distributor. He has starteddistribution recently and can be reached at 206-488-9806.The Gossamer is about 2/0 in size.A.J.thramer Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue May 5 15:10:58 1998 Subject: Re: A.J.'s 3wt RO>Dr. Steven A. Weiss wrote:RO>>RO>> -----Original Message-----RO>> From: A.J.Thramer RO>> Date: Monday, May 04, 1998 12:01 PMRO>> Subject: A.J.'s 3wtRO>>RO>> >HiAll,RO>> > My 3wt tapers ARE a specialist taper. As 3wt rods have ALWAYSbeen....RO>>RO>> AJ,RO>> I admit that I am fairly new to casting bamboo, but am a proficientcasterRO>> I have a late model Orvis 7' 3-wt Battenkill that casts both 2-wt and4-wtRO>> lines better than a 3-wt (all DT). It also casts a triangle taper 3-4bettRO>> than the DT3.RO>> Is this mostly my inexperience with bamboo or are there possiblyotherRO>> variables in rod design working here?RO>> Steve WeissRO>Hi Dr Steve,RO> Orvis is selling a 4wt rod with 3 wt on the shaft. Their detachmentRO> from cane(not building their own blanks anymore) and emphasis onRO>graphite has contaminated their cane ratings as many otherRO>manufacturers.RO>A.J.Thramer The old Wes Jordan Battenkill/99's all seem to cast a modern DT plasticline of one size under their original ratings. This is per the Orvisrcane rod shop. My own 7' Orvis 99 - 6 wt - works very well with a WF5 too. Don Burns from thramer@presys.com Tue May 5 15:21:35 1998 0000 Subject: Orvis Rods flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: RO>Dr. Steven A. Weiss wrote:RO>>RO>> -----Original Message-----RO>> From: A.J.Thramer RO>> Date: Monday, May 04, 1998 12:01 PMRO>> Subject: A.J.'s 3wtRO>>RO>> >HiAll,RO>> > My 3wt tapers ARE a specialist taper. As 3wt rods have ALWAYSbeen....RO>>RO>> AJ,RO>> I admit that I am fairly new to casting bamboo, but am a proficientcasterRO>> I have a late model Orvis 7' 3-wt Battenkill that casts both 2-wtand4-wtRO>> lines better than a 3-wt (all DT). It also casts a triangle taper 3-4bettRO>> than the DT3.RO>> Is this mostly my inexperience with bamboo or are there possiblyotherRO>> variables in rod design working here?RO>> Steve WeissRO>Hi Dr Steve,RO> Orvis is selling a 4wt rod with 3 wt on the shaft. Their detachmentRO> from cane(not building their own blanks anymore) and emphasis onRO>graphite has contaminated their cane ratings as many otherRO>manufacturers.RO>A.J.Thramer The old Wes Jordan Battenkill/99's all seem to cast a modern DT plasticline of one size under their original ratings. This is per the Orvisrcane rod shop. My own 7' Orvis 99 - 6 wt - works very well with a WF5 too. Don BurnsHi don,I have spent many pleasant streamside hours with a few older Orvisrods and they all cast one weight under with my preffered DT line. Stilldon't know where the current rage for WF lines came from as you give upso much line control.I recieved the thread last week, I thought we were talking about rodwrapping thread not backing for my fly line :) The previous was intendedin good humored jest but it does make me wonder about Mr. Maisey. A.J.Thramer from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue May 5 16:41:15 1998 Subject: RE:Orvis Rods RO>Hi don,RO> I have spent many pleasant streamside hours with a few older OrvisRO>rods and they all cast one weight under with my preffered DT line.StillRO>don't know where the current rage for WF lines came from as you giveupRO>so much line control.RO> I recieved the thread last week, I thought we were talking about rodRO>wrapping thread not backing for my fly line :) The previous wasintendedRO>in good humored jest but it does make me wonder about Mr. Maisey.RO>A.J.Thramer A.J., I have a complete set of flylines from 3 - 8 wt. in both WF and DT's totest cast rods, I use DT's for most of my fishing. BUT on one localstream both would work about the same - many times there's only a leaderand less than 5' of line out past the tiptop. A few of my heavierwt. lines are, dare I say, Cortland Fairplay WF lines ( from Walmart)because I don't fish with them and just have them to test heavy "clubs". Mr. Thramer, sir, that dual purpose rod wrapping thread/reel backingwill cost you more! Or was that a Belvoirdale Phoenix jasper silk 0wt. fly line that I sent you by mistake. So you like my "3/0" Belvoirdale silk thread? $#$#^#$#%%^&* How do youthink I feel - I've got about 10 more spools of that stuff. I believe I included a blk/white jasper spool also? The brain fades outsometimes. I wasn't sure if I equaled the price of the rod sack withjust one spool of that wonderful Belvoirdale jasper reel backing, Iincluded the 2nd spool so you can dye the white to other colors (orangeor green) for your future line of ocean boat rods. LAter, Don B. from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue May 5 17:24:28 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA028756908; Tue, 5 May 1998 15:21:48 -0700 Subject: Big Thread Come on guys, what's wrong with fat thread? Half a dozen turns and your done with the wrap, and you don't have to dress the guide feet. That big stuff will go right over an 1/8" step with no problems. Better yet, if you unwind it you'll have the equivalent of three rolls of 1/0 thread, a bargain indeed. Mac from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue May 5 17:50:16 1998 Subject: RE:Big Thread RO>Come on guys, what's wrong with fat thread? Half a dozen turns andyourRO>done with the wrap, and you don't have to dress the guide feet. ThatbigRO>stuff will go right over an 1/8" step with no problems. Better yet, ifyouRO>unwind it you'll have the equivalent of three rolls of 1/0 thread, aRO>bargain indeed. Maybe that's how you get the 100 yds of thread that you were charged forwhen you bought it? Don Burns from CampblRods@aol.com Tue May 5 19:58:54 1998 Subject: Re: FW: bamboo milling machine I am a little bit confused on my choice of cane milling equiptment. I wasquite sure I would be purchasing a beveler from Bellinger based on theDickerson beveler. For me this seemed like the best set up to cut down onlabor hours on my rods. But now I'm hearing all about this Morgan handmilland I'm wondering if this isn't the way to go. I'm slightly skeptical abouthow much time this is really going to save me, and for about a thousanddollars more I would have a real beveler. It sure looks and sounds nicethough. Any help or advise would be greatly appreciated.Steven N. CampbellCampbell Rod Co.Brewer,MaineCampblRods@aol.com from WDHCJL@aol.com Tue May 5 20:20:12 1998 Subject: Re: Ah....Springtime Just a minor correction, the Park Services does not prohibit fishing forBrooktrout just keeping them.doug hall"an avid Smokey Mountain Flyfisherman" from rmoon@ida.net Tue May 5 20:58:37 1998 Subject: FFF Conclave I apologize to the list for the messages I sent out regardinginvitations to participate in the FFF Conclave. I meant to send themdirect and I got screwed up. I realize that this is not an appropriateuse of the rodlist and ask that you bear with a poor old man with "oldtimers disease" But I can't resist a parting shot. We would love tosee any and all of you who might make it and if you want to help let meknow off the list. rmoon@ida.net from thramer@presys.com Tue May 5 20:58:52 1998 0000 Subject: Steven/Milling machine The choice may be easier than you think as Al Bellinger told me he hasstopped production of his milling machine. Another choice would be oneof the Whitehead beveler(might even find one used). It milled theinitial taper to .020 over final dimension and cut down on the amount ofhand planing tremendously. I used mine for 4-5 yrs and built 125-150rods with it before I built my owm beveler. Don't think I could havewithout it.A.J.Thramer from deuchman@hereintown.net Tue May 5 22:11:00 1998 23:11:28-0400 Subject: Hickory???? =_NextPart_000_01BD787B.222FA420" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD787B.222FA420 I have been lurking around here for quite some time, and finally have =the fortitude to try to make my first rod, however with a little twist. I have read about the use of woods other than bamboo in the making of a =rod, and am interested in perhaps trying to build my first attempt from =some hickory that I have lying around. Understanding that the hickory =would probably need to be a bit thicker than bamboo for this purpose, =what would a good starting point be to increase the size of the bamboo =sections to end up with a tolerable size for the hickory. I have Mr. =Cattannach's book, and would like to try to make the first rod in the =Tapers section (6' 2 pc. #3) from hickory. I was considering =multiplying the sections by 1.5 to get a figure for the splines in a =hickory rod. Suggestions? Comments? Rich Keller230 National HighwayLaVale, MD. 21502deuchman@hereintown.net ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD787B.222FA420 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD787B.222FA420-- from CampblRods@aol.com Tue May 5 22:28:13 1998 Subject: Re: Steven/Milling machine Is Whitehead still making bevelers? How would I get a hold of him? Ispokewith Al Bellinger a week ago, and he told me he would have more bevelersavailable in 5 months or so. When did you hear he had stopped? What isthereason either one of these bevelers couldn't be used to plane to finishedtapers? Are they just not accurate enough? The Bellinger machine issimilarin design to the Dickerson beveler and I believe he went from squaredstripsto finished tapers on his.Thanks for the help.Steve CampbellCampbell Rod Co.CampblRods@aol.com from Nodewrrior@aol.com Tue May 5 23:42:30 1998 Subject: Re: Got your phone call Chris, I got your phone call, I've had some lat gigs and thought I'd better not calltoo late. I'll call tomorrow PM. Rob from channer@hubwest.com Tue May 5 23:57:02 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AE1141300FE; Tue, 05 May 1998 22:58:57 MDT Subject: Re: In Search Of... At 10:16 PM 5/4/98 EDT, you wrote:John,Tony's talking $aust,not$us.Hank. Hank;I realized that about 2seconds after I hit the send button. My motto is"Never pass up a chance to make a fool of yourself", which I find very easyto live up to.John from channer@hubwest.com Tue May 5 23:57:15 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AE1B41400FE; Tue, 05 May 1998 22:59:07 MDT Subject: Re: Chicago Rodmakers At 12:26 AM 5/5/98 EDT, you wrote:Me too! Mark Mark; I must have missed something, what is this in reference to?John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Tue May 5 23:57:27 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AE2741500FE; Tue, 05 May 1998 22:59:19 MDT Subject: Re: Fitting Ferrules At 10:41 AM 5/5/98 -0800, you wrote:Jon,If it's the Super Z, I just fitted one last week. They say it's .002oversized but it seemed like more. You have to be very patient, diligentand careful because of this. I carefully sanded down to first wear mark(this being the first line from the male's solid end). Try folding thatsandpaper into the thinnest strip possible when you get near the wearmark. I'll admit my first wear mark did get a little sanded. Also Isanded just a little with a 400 grit, then switched to a 600, thancleaned with steel wool and check fit, start process again. I know 400grit sounds dangerous but it would have taken me all day if I didn't useit to speed things up, just be very careful and check often. I wasbeginning to worry that I was tapering it but by using a very thin stripof sandpaper gave me better control and kept me from over sanding thearea that did fit. Finally did get a nice tight fit down to first wearmark that and it makes a hell of a popping noise but again it took along time. Just keep at it. Best Regards,Chris Wohlford Jon Lintvet wrote: I am having a dickens of a time final fitting the ferrule from REC onthis para. The male doesn't seem to work it's way down any furtherthan the first 3/16". Are you supposed to sand the wear marks orabove the wear marks? Arg! Jon Lintvet12B College CircleIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277- 9781www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ Jon and Chris;IMHO the Super Swiss ferrules are well worth the few bucks extra theycost.They are much better made and aren't so far off in fit. They also seem tobe made from a better quality tubing. John Channer from flyrod@artistree.com Wed May 6 01:14:22 1998 XAA18302 Subject: Re: Fitting Ferrules John,Thanks for the info. Will go with the Super Swiss next time as I wassweatingbullets. Those Super Z's were too scary of an experience to repeat anytimesoon.Regards,Chris Wohlford john channer wrote: Jon and Chris;IMHO the Super Swiss ferrules are well worth the few bucks extra theycost.They are much better made and aren't so far off in fit. They also seem tobe made from a better quality tubing. John Channer from jcole10@juno.com Wed May 6 07:13:16 1998 08:11:40 EDT Subject: Re: Heat Gun Thanks for new phone number John Cole On Tue, 5 May 1998 15:07:19 EDT Fallcreek9 writes:In a message dated 98- 05-05 00:43:37 EDT, I wrote: John - Try Grangers 1-800-323-0620.... John - Make that "Grainger".RT _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from jcole10@juno.com Wed May 6 07:31:02 1998 08:29:27 EDT Subject: Re: Steven/Milling machine A.J.Like Steven, I have also been thinking about a milling machine. Have notheard about the Whitehead beveler. Tell us more. John Cole On Tue, 05 May 1998 19:03:40 -0700 "A.J.Thramer" writes:The choice may be easier than you think as Al Bellinger told me he hasstopped production of his milling machine. Another choice would be oneof the Whitehead beveler(might even find one used). It milled theinitial taper to .020 over final dimension and cut down on the amount ofhand planing tremendously. I used mine for 4-5 yrs and built 125-150rods with it before I built my owm beveler. Don't think I could havewithout it.A.J.Thramer _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from destinycon@mindspring.com Wed May 6 07:36:31 1998 Subject: Re: In Search Of... At 10:56 PM 5/5/98, you wrote:"Never pass up a chance to make a fool of yourself", which I find veryeasyto live up to.John John,These words have soared me straight to the heights I'm at today. Gary from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed May 6 07:53:13 1998 Wed, 6 May 1998 20:52:49 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: In Search Of... On Wed, 6 May 1998, Heidt wrote: At 10:56 PM 5/5/98, you wrote:"Never pass up a chance to make a fool of yourself", which I find veryeasyto live up to.John John,These words have soared me straight to the heights I'm at today. Gary That's one of the realy exciting things about email and listservs in particular. You're only a bee's di*k from public footisinismouthis, it's anart I practice often. It's sudden and all it takes is the press of a key and whoops. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from destinycon@mindspring.com Wed May 6 08:38:03 1998 Subject: Re: Hickory???? At 11:11 PM 5/5/98 -0400, you wrote:I have been lurking around here for quite some time, and finally have thefortitude to try to make my first rod, however with a little twist. I have read about the use of woods other than bamboo in the making of arod, and am interested in perhaps trying to build my first attempt fromsome hickory that I have lying around. Understanding that the hickorywould probably need to be a bit thicker than bamboo for this purpose, whatwould a good starting point be to increase the size of the bamboo sectionsto end up with a tolerable size for the hickory. I have Mr. Cattannach'sbook, and would like to try to make the first rod in the Tapers section (6'2 pc. #3) from hickory. I was considering multiplying the sections by 1.5to get a figure for the splines in a hickory rod. Suggestions? Comments? Rich Keller230 National HighwayLaVale, MD. 21502deuchman@hereintown.net Rich,I have not seen a split and glued hickory rod yet, at least hex. All Ihave seen were of solid construction or glued in a pattern thatcomplements the grain of the wood. They are very large, very heavy andextremely "loggy" (not to mention out dated). This is a whole differentworld of rod building. I don't think you will be pleased with the outcomeof your labor but if you want to pursue this course your best source ofinformation might be H. P. Wells book "Fly-Rods And Fly-Tackle" -1885-. Hehas a couple of chapters devoted to woods and wooden rods. It's not easyto find but I have seen a copy, just this week, on one of the book finderlists. IMHO you would be best served by going tonkin. Gary H. from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed May 6 08:39:17 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: FW: bamboo milling machine I SAW a demonstration of the Morgan mill and it not only puts and exact60 degree angle on the strips but it takes it to what ever taper you setin a matter of minutes. It took Per Brandon about 10 minutes to go fromsplit strip to ready for glue up. I was always one that felt that muchcash out lay for a beveler ($2000 - $4000) was ridiculous and unless onewas going to mass produce it was a waste of money. Well now I'm eithergoing to order a Morgan mill or make one myself. Last year I saw theBellinger mill at the Oregon gathering and the Morgan mill is bothcheaper and easier to operate. The glued up blank that Per had, had 61and 1/2 degree angles and even on close inspection you could not see ANYglue lines. I feel with Morgans mill I could start with split andstraightened strips and go to a glued up blank in one evening afterwork. Martin Jensen and I drooled over the Morgan mill and thought thatmaybe we could make our own. ----------From: CampblRods[SMTP:CampblRods@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 5:57 PM Subject: Re: FW: bamboo milling machine I am a little bit confused on my choice of cane milling equiptment. Iwasquite sure I would be purchasing a beveler from Bellinger based on theDickerson beveler. For me this seemed like the best set up to cutdown onlabor hours on my rods. But now I'm hearing all about this Morganhand milland I'm wondering if this isn't the way to go. I'm slightly skepticalabouthow much time this is really going to save me, and for about athousanddollars more I would have a real beveler. It sure looks and soundsnicethough. Any help or advise would be greatly appreciated.Steven N. CampbellCampbell Rod Co.Brewer,MaineCampblRods@aol.com from destinycon@mindspring.com Wed May 6 08:47:52 1998 Subject: Re: FFF Conclave At 07:54 PM 5/5/98 -0600, you wrote:I apologize to the list for the messages I sent out regardinginvitations to participate in the FFF Conclave. I meant to send themdirect and I got screwed up. I realize that this is not an appropriateuse of the rodlist and ask that you bear with a poor old man with "oldtimers disease" But I can't resist a parting shot. We would love tosee any and all of you who might make it and if you want to help let meknow off the list. rmoon@ida.net Alzheimers?Thats OK, I keeping a list of all of us who have passed the Z. Yes, Idohave to write it down or else I'll forg.......ah....Gary H. from r.schiller@worldnet.att.net Wed May 6 08:58:40 1998 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA8442 +0000 Subject: Re: Ah....Springtime -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Ah....Springtime Just a minor correction, the Park Services does not prohibit fishing forBrooktrout just keeping them.doug hall"an avid Smokey Mountain Flyfisherman"Doug: Good to see you on again. Fished the S. Holston last week. Had a good day with a couple of dozenbrowns and rainbows. The Clinch is too fast and high to fish yet. Thesulphur hatch has not appeared yet. It may never appear because of waterconditions but I will get a call from a guide if it does! Got a new wood lathe from Bonnie with all the goodies. Now I have fourlathes and no skill. I did make a fairly good ferrule after I found that Ihad shaped my tool incorrectly for cutting N/S. (Not on the wood lathe buton my Southbend) It is not as good as Bailey Woods but I will get better. While down in TN, last week, my wife and I drove up to the Cataloocheecampground. Have you been there? It looks like a grade A spot to fish. It isa tough ride of about 10 miles up a dirt road but no people and lots ofstreams. What is your opinion of the place? RegardsDick from cmj@post11.tele.dk Wed May 6 09:26:22 1998 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA27810 +0200 Subject: Sv: In Search Of... JAA31509 ----- That's one of the realy exciting things about email and listservs in particular. You're only a bee's di*k from public footisinismouthis, it's anartI practice often. It's sudden and all it takes is the press of a key and whoops. Tony Tony Excuse an ignorant foreigner, but what is a di*k ? I couldn't locate theword inmy DICtionary :-) regards, Carsten from fhar@world.std.com Wed May 6 09:52:56 1998 Subject: Re: Ah....Springtime I'm getting too manyof these messages - i tried to unsubscribe but I amnot doing something correct - ccould somebody put the syntax in the subject heading for me or i mightnever find the response - i live flyfishing but i use this email to dowork and my owkr (work ) is getting drowner (drowned) out by theflys(flyfishing) mailgroup - thanksfrank from thramer@presys.com Wed May 6 12:00:12 1998 0000 Subject: 4'4" Guide Spacing A bit of housecleaning today....The guide spacing for the 4'4" taper from a couple of months ago4" 1/08.25" 1/013.5" #120" #228" Strip GuideA.J.Thramer from thramer@presys.com Wed May 6 12:08:56 1998 0000 Subject: 6' 4wt Taper This is a Dx taper0-.0685-.08010-.09415-.10820-.12225- .13830-.15435- .17840-.20045-.21650-.22855-.24060-.26065- 72 - .260 A light fast easy to cast taper 2 7/8 oz and a 12/64 ferrule. I like aLeonard type for this rod A.J.Thramer I do remember meeting you at the Portland cast in. Beautiful paleGarrison style rods, a bit better tapers though! The event would be funto do again.A.J.thramer from saweiss@flash.net Wed May 6 13:26:31 1998 Subject: Re: FW: bamboo milling machine Increasing the angle to hide the glue line is an OLD woodworker's trick.The price you pay is a greater mass of glue inside the joint. In this case,substituting glue for bamboo. This will add to the variation in action dueto glue. A while back, Wayne C. reminded us to pay attention to detail,particularly at the end of each step. Garrison rejected this trick and eventhinned his glue to get closer approximation of the strips and betterpenetration of the glue.Just a beginner's opinion.Steve Weiss from Finanplanr@aol.com Wed May 6 13:29:54 1998 Subject: Re: Japan - part #3 Lovely...just lovely. If every day could only be like this...sigh... Stu from saweiss@flash.net Wed May 6 13:51:00 1998 Subject: Re: Fitting Ferrules Another little piece of information that a beginner needs.John, what's the difference between a Super Z and a Super Swiss?Steve Weiss from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed May 6 14:58:53 1998 Subject: Binder for Amateurs boundary="part0_894484694_boundary" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_894484694_boundary The attachment is a JPEG photo of a binder.It has always seemed to me that any binder I tried was a bit tricky to setupand adjust. I guess it's OK if you make a lot of rods and get the feel for thethings by using them all the time. Half the time I don't even bother, andbind Here is a binder that:Can be built with hardware store parts.Is easy to adjust and intuitive to use.Is portable.It consists of two 6" pulleys mounted on !/2" ID, 5/8" OD copper watertube. A5/8" retaining ring holds each in place. The copper tube is mounted to theplywood frame with pipe hanging straps. The drive pulley has a length of"V"belt contact cemented in it's groove, in effect a rubber tire. It also has ahandle mounted, so it can be cranked by the user.The binder pulley has a spool of thread, a thread tensioner, and a threadguide mounted on it's face. In front of the binder pulley, on it's shaft is a5/8" ID wire compression spring, with a washer on each end. This pushesthebinder pulley back into the drive pulley, creating the friction that allowsthe machine to work. The machine is clamped to your bench.In use, the rod section is fed through the middle of the binder pulley fromthe back. After attaching the thread, you slowly pull the section throughfromthe front with your left hand. You crank in one direction with your righthand direction for the second wrap. I thought I might need a brake on the drivewheel so that I could stop and change hand positions without losingtension,but there is enough drag built in that it was not necessary. >Fromrmoon@ida.net Wed May 6 15:08:37 1998 Subject: Re: Hickory???? Rich, As Gary pointed out, there is a world of difference between hard woodrods and bamboo. Attempting to transpose a bamboo taper to hard woodwill result in disaster. I recall an article in the Planing Form, and Idon't recall the author or when it appeared, that dealt with aninexpensive method of making wooden rods. I recommend that you look itup and read it. Well's book to is a good source. Most of the wood rodsof the 19th century were made of different kinds of wood in the samerod. Another source for background would be Schweibert's Trout. Ithink though that there is still a potential for this kind of rod.Greenheart is still being made in England and used primarily for stillwater fishing. I have cast a number of these rods and while they areheavy and very slow, they have a surprisingly pleasant action, and canbe capable of some long cast. Ralph from RVenneri@aol.com Wed May 6 15:10:52 1998 Subject: machine shop link About two weeks ago some one posted a link of an army machine shop link.Itwas an interesting link that I shared with freinds. Now some how I lostthelink could someone post it again .Thanks GuysBob VVenneri's Custom Components21 Chuck Hill RoadSaugerties N Y 12477914 246 5882 from thramer@presys.com Wed May 6 15:17:55 1998 Subject: Re: Fitting Ferrules DR. STEVEN A. WEISS wrote: Another little piece of information that a beginner needs.John, what's the difference between a Super Z and a Super Swiss?Steve WeissThe Super Z is the original Swiss type ferrule made by Fierabend andSoth Bend for a while. They are currently made by Cortland. Ipurcahased about a dozen sets a few years back and called the Cortlandtech rep to see if they made an error in shipping reject ferrules. Nosolution was offered so I sent them back. They MAY be better now. I bluemy ferrules and the solder wiped all over the ferrule made itimmpossible to blue them evenly. It won't be as much of a problem if youdon't blue.Super Swiss ferrules are made by Classic Sporting Enterprises and areof a much better quality. The ferrules you buy from Anglers Workshop aremade by CSE.A.J.Thramer from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed May 6 15:31:04 1998 Subject: A Challenge or a puzzle A fun challenge for one and all - but no prizes or rewards, I acquired to nicely made cane rods tips - reported to be 35" longreplacement tips for Heddon rods. BUT when they arrived they were found to be made with flamed cane andhave random nodes - the flaming is something that is not a feature ofHeddon rods. So do I send them back or put them to use? I decided to keep them - because I knew they would made a beginnings ofa nice rod. Something like what Mac McDowell is doing with his "sand aproduction rod" to a good taper - but in reverse. So here's the challenge: I have the tips - find me a rod taper. Help mefind a complete rod taper that will have the same tip taper as these twotips. Use one or the other OD's or average them since they aren't aperfect pair. Use the full section length or shorten them for use with ashort 3 piece rod maybe. Don't get carried away, I'm just seeing if anyone enjoys a good puzzle. Tip #1 0" - 0.073"5" - 0.082"10" - 0.100"15" - 0.116"20" - 0.133"25" - 0.147"30" - 0.160"35" - 0.170" Tip #2 0" - 0.073"5" - 0.090"10" - 0.105"15" - 0.118"20" - 0.135"25" - 0.147"30" - 0.159"35" - 0.170" I' think I've already found a close taper match in Jerry's archive oftapers, but if there's others I'd be interested. I do intend to build acomplete rod from these tips to match one of the provided tapers. Please - keep the replies off list and if anyone is interested - I'llput out a list of tapers later. Puzzled in soggy California. Don BurnsFlyfisher@cmix.com or Canerods@aol.com from projeto@ipmet2.ipmet.unesp.br Wed May 6 15:36:22 1998 4.1/UCB5.64/4.03) Subject: Re: machine shop link Bob,are you talking about this link? http://www.atsc-army.org/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/tc/9-524/toc.htm Sergio RVenneri wrote: About two weeks ago some one posted a link of an army machine shoplink. Itwas an interesting link that I shared with freinds. Now some how I lostthelink could someone post it again .Thanks GuysBob VVenneri's Custom Components21 Chuck Hill RoadSaugerties N Y 12477914 246 5882 from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Wed May 6 15:41:24 1998 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Wed, 06 May 98 16:40:32 EDT Light Version 3.0.5 (16) Subject: Stress curves In graphing a taper for a 7wt, the stress factors move quickly up to 250K.My question is how much can cane handle, what is too high? The exactfigures for the first few stations are as follows (in thousands): 1"=61.7, thefigures at the 10 thru 20 inch stations too high and should I adjust thedimensions of this taper? Thanks in advance, Bob.Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581-3128 from RVenneri@aol.com Wed May 6 15:47:21 1998 Subject: Re: machine shop link In a message dated 5/6/98 4:37:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time,projeto@ipmet2.ipmet.unesp.br writes: Sergio,Thanks Thats the one. Great link to give to some one who has machs Butnobackgroundin shop training.Thanks.Bob V from projeto@ipmet2.ipmet.unesp.br Wed May 6 16:07:08 1998 4.1/UCB5.64/4.03) Subject: Re: machine shop link Bob,you're wellcome. It's really a very good source of info.Sergio RVenneri wrote: In a message dated 5/6/98 4:37:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time,projeto@ipmet2.ipmet.unesp.br writes: Sergio,Thanks Thats the one. Great link to give to some one who has machs Butnobackgroundin shop training.Thanks.Bob V from hall@Summa4.COM Wed May 6 16:53:27 1998 custsrv1.vitts.com(Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0- 49776U700L100S0)with SMTP id AAA16037 for ;Wed, 6 May 1998 17:53:24 -0400 199821:53:24 UT (8.8.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id RAA01276 for ;Wed, 6 summa4.summa4.com (8.8.5/8.7.1) with SMTP id RAA25260 for Subject: My first bamboo casting experience This past weekend, I had the opportunity to cast for the first time a(actually 3 different) bamboo fly rod. As a heavy graphite user for thelast 16 years, it was suggested I post this casting experience to youfolks. I hope you find it of interest. I arranged with a fellow rodmaker subscriber, to trout fish a smallriver here in New Hampshire. When I mentioned that I don't have anyfishable cane, he generously offered any rod of his, for my use at theriver. What a opportunity! Cane has always been an enigma to me, from thestandpoint of what are its advantages/disadvantages over graphite true.I have found shortcomings in graphite (for my fishing pleasures)including, 1. for short casts (most common here in NH), 2. the stiffnessoff the material, and percieved disadvantages of cane being 1. cost and2. durability 3. weight The first rod he let me fish with, was a 3/2 9ft Montague for 3weight.The line was not silk. He mentioned this was a custom Montague, havingintermediate windings (variated thread of ruby and black - sorry, forgotthe standard term here), heat treated, blued or grayed components. Allin excellent condition. A real pretty piece. What little energy requiredto cast! I found short casts ( from cbogart@shentel.net Wed May 6 18:43:17 1998 head.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA19330; Wed, 6 May199819:43:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Hickory???? RichYou may want to give Ken Reinard (the Ye Olde Colonial Angler of1770) acallat (717) 738-1815. He may give you insight into using some of the "moretraditional" materialsprior to the advent of split cane. He is located in Lititz PA. So you maytakea trip up to see him.BTW - you are invited to my BBQ if you want to come out and discuss your Chris On Tue, 5 May 1998 23:11:20 -0400, Richard E. Keller, Jr. wrote: I have been lurking around here for quite some time, and finally have thefortitude to try to make my first rod, however with a little twist. I have read about the use of woods other than bamboo in the making of arod,and am interested in perhaps trying to build my first attempt from some hickory that I havelyingaround. Understanding that the hickory would probably need to be a bit thicker than bamboo for thispurpose,what would a good starting point be to increase the size of the bamboo sections to end up with atolerablesize for the hickory. I have Mr. Cattannach's book, and would like to try to make the first rod in theTaperssection (6' 2 pc. #3) from hickory. I was considering multiplying the sections by 1.5 to get a figureforthe splines in a hickory rod. Suggestions? Comments? Rich Keller230 National HighwayLaVale, MD. 21502deuchman@hereintown.net from cbogart@shentel.net Wed May 6 18:45:07 1998 head.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA19708; Wed, 6 May199819:45:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Steven/Milling machine Steve Darryl is out of the beveler business. He has passed this on tosomeoneelse - I know George Maurer has some for sale - give him a call or email. Chris On Tue, 5 May 1998 23:21:19 EDT, CampblRods wrote: Is Whitehead still making bevelers? How would I get a hold of him? Ispokewith Al Bellinger a week ago, and he told me he would have more bevelersavailable in 5 months or so. When did you hear he had stopped? What isthereason either one of these bevelers couldn't be used to plane to finishedtapers? Are they just not accurate enough? The Bellinger machine issimilarin design to the Dickerson beveler and I believe he went from squaredstripsto finished tapers on his.Thanks for the help.Steve CampbellCampbell Rod Co.CampblRods@aol.com from rclarke@eou.edu Wed May 6 18:50:37 1998 Subject: Re: My first bamboo casting experience Nice post Dan. I love fishing my Heddon. I agree it is heavier, but easier to cast moreline when compared to my graphites. Nice job! Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Dan Hall Subject: My first bamboo casting experienceDate: Wednesday, May 06, 1998 2:53 PM This past weekend, I had the opportunity to cast for the first time a(actually 3 different) bamboo fly rod. As a heavy graphite user for thelast 16 years, it was suggested I post this casting experience to youfolks. I hope you find it of interest. I arranged with a fellow rodmaker subscriber, to trout fish a smallriver here in New Hampshire. When I mentioned that I don't have anyfishable cane, he generously offered any rod of his, for my use at theriver. What a opportunity! Cane has always been an enigma to me, from thestandpoint of what are its advantages/disadvantages over graphite true.I have found shortcomings in graphite (for my fishing pleasures)including, 1. for short casts (most common here in NH), 2. the stiffnessoff the material, and percieved disadvantages of cane being 1. cost and2. durability 3. weight The first rod he let me fish with, was a 3/2 9ft Montague for 3weight.The line was not silk. He mentioned this was a custom Montague, havingintermediate windings (variated thread of ruby and black - sorry, forgotthe standard term here), heat treated, blued or grayed components. Allin excellent condition. A real pretty piece. What little energy requiredto cast! I found short casts ( the tip only. The leader would straighten every time, without thetypical "flogging" required in graphite. Soon the dry was falling in thefoam right where I was looking. Did'nt really make longer cast than 30ftwith this rod. Used this rod most of the day, without ever tiring (noweight concerns).The second rod was a F.E. Thomas for 6 weight, just as pretty as thefirst. This rod was outfitted with a silk line. Boy does the silk lineshave texture. I noticed this line really floated high in the water, andappeared to have less of a diameter than 6 weight plastic. This rod wasvery smooth casting, with good reserve power. Got to cast this rod 35and shoot beyond this. I could feel the action work down to the grip asI lengthen the cast. It would roll cast and mend very nicely. Had toremind myself to cut down on the false casting, if I want to catchtrout.The last rod was completely different action (even with using thesame6 silk line from the Thomas). It was a 10ft Nichols rod, calcutta cane(boy is that cane lighly colored) with intermediate wraps. What abeatiful looking piece. The finish gave the ruby wraps "depth" againstthe light calcutta. It was a "wet fly" action. Quite a sag at the end ofthe 10 feet. What a slow action. Couldn't (and would'nt want too) get atight loop out of this if you tried. Take a valium and slow down. Actionright done to the grip, regardless of length of cast. Soooo littleenergy required to cast the line. To my suprise, the dry flies wouldlightly fall on the surface. Should of tried a streamer/wet. Foundmyself smiling every time I casted this rod, with its laid backrequirements for the caster. Boy could it roll cast.Went back to the car, and we quickly casted my 7'11" graphite orvis(slower graphite of 1983 vintage) with his silk line. I was quicklyreminded how much lighter this rod was, compared to the bamboo. Mypartner was surprised upon how slow the action was. Come to find out,the silk line was a 5 weight. When we put one the "matched" dt4, one hadto flog the hell out of it, to get the line out. It action stiffed rightup, we put the rod away. So what did I learn/still need to try? 1. Well bamboo has character!Graphite has a lack of individuality in casting, spiritless. 2. Shortcasts are easily done with bamboo. 3. bamboo is fluent 4. bamboo isnoticably heavier than graphite, but requires less effort to present thefly. So perhaps the total energy used might be less (?) 5. the jury isstill out on longer casts, but I'll wait to experiment with this, on myown rods (that durability thaaaang). I found myself wanting to cast therod more, than actually wet the line. Oh BTW, we didn't catch anything.This I still need to try (but alas, I'm always "catch challenged"regardless of rod material) fighting a fish on bamboo. My discussion of this bamboo experience would'nt be complete withoutchatting about my generous fishing partner. The ride to/back- from theriver was filled with talk regarding bamboo fly rod topics. Such ainteresting person, I did'nt even look closely at his copy of Keane'sbook, that he brought for the ride (or pay attention to the directionsto one of his favorite fishing holes;). Such a knowledgable person onthe subject, and a rare breed that enjoys listening (to my littlesmalltalk in this area) as well. A nice match to this bamboo experience. Regards,Dan from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed May 6 19:01:07 1998 Thu, 7 May 1998 08:00:59 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Sv: In Search Of... wugate.wustl.edu idTAA23587 Tony Excuse an ignorant foreigner, but what is a di*k ? I couldn't locate the word in my DICtionary :-) regards, Carsten :-))) /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from CampblRods@aol.com Wed May 6 19:05:18 1998 Subject: Re: Steven/Milling machine Do you know George Maurer's phone number or e-mail address? from channer@hubwest.com Wed May 6 19:10:50 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AC734500C4; Wed, 06 May 1998 18:12:35 MDT Subject: Re: Fitting Ferrules At 12:42 PM 5/6/98 -0600, you wrote:Another little piece of information that a beginner needs.John, what's the difference between a Super Z and a Super Swiss?Steve Weiss Steve;I have bought both from REC. The Super Z they sell seems to be made out ofcheaper, softer tubing and the fir is not as close as the Super Swiss,also, they are not as nicely made. They have a rather large, plain squarewelt. Bailey Woods at Classic Sporting Enterprises makes the Super Swissferrules and they are much nicer, better quality tubing, nicely steppedwelt and over all finish, and closer fit. They still need to be finalfitted, but do not require the effort. Price difference is around $10.00 ohn Channer from cbogart@shentel.net Wed May 6 19:11:00 1998 head.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id UAA24815; Wed, 6 May199820:10:55 -0400 Subject: Re: My first bamboo casting experience Reed Curry Strikes Again! On Wed, 06 May 1998 17:53:21 -0400, Dan Hall wrote: This past weekend, I had the opportunity to cast for the first time a(actually 3 different) bamboo fly rod. As a heavy graphite user for thelast 16 years, it was suggested I post this casting experience to youfolks. I hope you find it of interest. I arranged with a fellow rodmaker subscriber, to trout fish a smallriver here in New Hampshire. When I mentioned that I don't have anyfishable cane, he generously offered any rod of his, for my use at theriver. What a opportunity! Cane has always been an enigma to me, from thestandpoint of what are its advantages/disadvantages over graphite true.I have found shortcomings in graphite (for my fishing pleasures)including, 1. for short casts (most common here in NH), 2. the stiffnessoff the material, and percieved disadvantages of cane being 1. cost and2. durability 3. weight The first rod he let me fish with, was a 3/2 9ft Montague for 3weight.The line was not silk. He mentioned this was a custom Montague, havingintermediate windings (variated thread of ruby and black - sorry, forgotthe standard term here), heat treated, blued or grayed components. Allin excellent condition. A real pretty piece. What little energy requiredto cast! I found short casts (the tip only. The leader would straighten every time, without thetypical "flogging" required in graphite. Soon the dry was falling in thefoam right where I was looking. Did'nt really make longer cast than 30ftwith this rod. Used this rod most of the day, without ever tiring (noweight concerns).The second rod was a F.E. Thomas for 6 weight, just as pretty as thefirst. This rod was outfitted with a silk line. Boy does the silk lineshave texture. I noticed this line really floated high in the water, andappeared to have less of a diameter than 6 weight plastic. This rod wasvery smooth casting, with good reserve power. Got to cast this rod 35and shoot beyond this. I could feel the action work down to the grip asI lengthen the cast. It would roll cast and mend very nicely. Had toremind myself to cut down on the false casting, if I want to catchtrout.The last rod was completely different action (even with using thesame6 silk line from the Thomas). It was a 10ft Nichols rod, calcutta cane(boy is that cane lighly colored) with intermediate wraps. What abeatiful looking piece. The finish gave the ruby wraps "depth" againstthe light calcutta. It was a "wet fly" action. Quite a sag at the end ofthe 10 feet. What a slow action. Couldn't (and would'nt want too) get atight loop out of this if you tried. Take a valium and slow down. Actionright done to the grip, regardless of length of cast. Soooo littleenergy required to cast the line. To my suprise, the dry flies wouldlightly fall on the surface. Should of tried a streamer/wet. Foundmyself smiling every time I casted this rod, with its laid backrequirements for the caster. Boy could it roll cast.Went back to the car, and we quickly casted my 7'11" graphite orvis(slower graphite of 1983 vintage) with his silk line. I was quicklyreminded how much lighter this rod was, compared to the bamboo. Mypartner was surprised upon how slow the action was. Come to find out,the silk line was a 5 weight. When we put one the "matched" dt4, one hadto flog the hell out of it, to get the line out. It action stiffed rightup, we put the rod away. So what did I learn/still need to try? 1. Well bamboo has character!Graphite has a lack of individuality in casting, spiritless. 2. Shortcasts are easily done with bamboo. 3. bamboo is fluent 4. bamboo isnoticably heavier than graphite, but requires less effort to present thefly. So perhaps the total energy used might be less (?) 5. the jury isstill out on longer casts, but I'll wait to experiment with this, on myown rods (that durability thaaaang). I found myself wanting to cast therod more, than actually wet the line. Oh BTW, we didn't catch anything.This I still need to try (but alas, I'm always "catch challenged"regardless of rod material) fighting a fish on bamboo. My discussion of this bamboo experience would'nt be complete withoutchatting about my generous fishing partner. The ride to/back- from theriver was filled with talk regarding bamboo fly rod topics. Such ainteresting person, I did'nt even look closely at his copy of Keane'sbook, that he brought for the ride (or pay attention to the directionsto one of his favorite fishing holes;). Such a knowledgable person onthe subject, and a rare breed that enjoys listening (to my littlesmalltalk in this area) as well. A nice match to this bamboo experience. Regards,Dan from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed May 6 19:13:54 1998 Thu, 7 May 1998 08:13:03 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: My first bamboo casting experience 6 silk line from the Thomas). It was a 10ft Nichols rod, calcutta cane(boy is that cane lighly colored) with intermediate wraps. What abeatiful looking piece. The finish gave the ruby wraps "depth" againstthe light calcutta. It was a "wet fly" action. Quite a sag at the end ofthe 10 feet. What a slow action. Couldn't (and would'nt want too) get atight loop out of this if you tried. Take a valium and slow down. Actionright done to the grip, regardless of length of cast. Soooo littleenergy required to cast the line. To my suprise, the dry flies wouldlightly fall on the surface. Should of tried a streamer/wet. Foundmyself smiling every time I casted this rod, with its laid backrequirements for the caster. Boy could it roll cast. A bit of an extreme example but interesting re. dry fly fishing? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from CampblRods@aol.com Wed May 6 19:14:32 1998 Subject: Re: FW: bamboo milling machine Patrick, how does this hand mill shave down the cane so quickly? TenMinutes?I can see how it would take half as long since you are tapering both sidesatonce, but I don't understand how it is doing it so fast. If this is reallyso, I agree that a beveler isn't what i need. I would like to go up to about25 rods a year and it sounds like this mill is just the thing I need. Thanks,Steve CampbellCampbell Rod Co.CampblRods@aol.com from saweiss@flash.net Wed May 6 19:20:59 1998 Subject: Re: Custom Order For Silk Thread Chris,Haven't heard anything lately about the silk order. I repeat my interest.Do you have consensus on color & size?ThanksSteve Weiss from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed May 6 19:27:49 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.1);Wed, 6May 1998 20:29:37 -0400 Subject: Para Casting Experience... I just finished a Para 6wt. I went out and cast it with a 5wt Cortland 444 and I wasn't sure so I went and bought a Cortland SL 444 6wt. Still not sure. I don't know if it is the line or what but I have not gotten the hang of it. I am going out tomorrow to cast again. I must say the rod is heavy. Next one along these lines I am scallop building. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed May 6 19:27:50 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.1);Wed, 6May 1998 20:29:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Fitting Ferrules Does someone have a phone # for Baily Woods? Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from CALucker@aol.com Wed May 6 20:08:46 1998 Subject: Re: Custom Order For Silk Thread I apologize for keeping you in the dark. I am hopeful that you are the onlyone who has expressed interest that I have neglected from my bulk e-maillist.I am communicating off newsgroup to everyone. We have about 45 folks interested in a custom order. I have decided that AH Rice is the best company to go through, largelybecausethey are the only ones who will do it for us. AH Rice is the company thatnowowns Belding Corticelli and the old BC machinery. Nine years ago BC would have allowed me to select any color and anythreadsize. Today, we are limited to sizes A or 6/0. The any color part stillstands.The minimum order is five pounds of silk. The cost for five pounds put uponthree ounce spools is about $500 -- or about $20 per spool.That makes only 26.6 spools of silk.In 6/0, that is a shitload of silk. I estimate in 6/0 there will be enoughsilk for about 36 rods. I can't figure out how much silk there would be insize A. The silk people have not given me a #/yrds figure yet. They like todeal in terms of weight.To be honest it looks like the group is moving toward size 6/0 or A inAntiqueGold (BC 3715). There is a strong contingent for size 6/0 Java Beige (BC5115Payne Brown). To be honest again, the final decision will be made by me, for a fewreasons.First, I am fronting the $500, so if the silk turns out to be crap I won'teven ask any of you to purchase any of the stuff. Even if the silk isperfect, you won't have to pay for it if you don't like it. Secondly, I willbe the only person participating in the custom order who really knows howeveryone votes anyway, so I guess I can throw the election results. Thirdly,there appear to be more people involved in the order than number of spoolsavailable. I want to keep our first order at the minimum (see Reason One).If the silk turns out to be fantastic, we can do subsequent orders until weall get tied of the exercise. Thanks for your interest. Let me know what you want. Chris Lucker from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed May 6 20:13:57 1998 Subject: Re: Trumpet/Bell Guide Source??? Russ,I don't have any bell or trumpet guides in stock, but I have madethem don't find what you'r looking for, let me know.Maybe I can help you out. Dave LeClair from davidjrogers@hotmail.com Wed May 6 20:17:12 1998 Wed, 06 May 1998 18:16:38 PDT Subject: An idea for a mill I've come up with an idea for a mill based on comments by master mill-maker Chris. I thought I wold run it by the list for comments. The idea is to use a moulder/planer--the kind of tool used to cut mouldings for homes (and plane rough lumber). Jet has one that runs for about $760. Using a 4-inch blank knife set, have a machine shop custom cut a tool to cut six strips at once. It would look something like this: |-------------------||_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_| Then build a jig to hold the split strips. The strips would sit on an anvil similar to the ones used on the Bellinger or Morgan mills with the taper. The jig and strips would run through the moulder/planer, machining the strips to the final taper. I would rig a spring-loaded hold-down at the front and back of the moulder/planer similar to the ones that Bob Milward uses on his. With one pass, a section is ready I would be interested in feedback as to whether you think this would work. David ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed May 6 20:23:57 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0500 Subject: Re: Binder for Amateurs Tom,Thanks for the simplified binder. If I had not already spent severalhoursputting together a Garrison/Cattanach/Kreider hybrid, and many moretuning it, Ithink I would be able to produce one of these that actually worked. Infact,nexttime I break the binding thread or drive belt on my current binder, I mayjustscrap the whole thing. from the looks of your binder, the metal pulleys could probably bereplacedwith circles cut from wood to save a few dollars. One question springs tomind:Does the binding thread create all the pressure needed, or am I overlookingsomething?Harry Boyd TSmithwick wrote: The attachment is a JPEG photo of a binder.It has always seemed to me that any binder I tried was a bit tricky toset upand adjust. I guess it's OK if you make a lot of rods and get the feel forthethings by using them all the time. Half the time I don't even bother, andbind Here is a binder that:Can be built with hardware store parts.Is easy to adjust and intuitive to use.Is portable.It consists of two 6" pulleys mounted on !/2" ID, 5/8" OD copper watertube. A5/8" retaining ring holds each in place. The copper tube is mounted to theplywood frame with pipe hanging straps. The drive pulley has a length of"V"belt contact cemented in it's groove, in effect a rubber tire. It also has ahandle mounted, so it can be cranked by the user.The binder pulley has a spool of thread, a thread tensioner, and a threadguide mounted on it's face. In front of the binder pulley, on it's shaft is a5/8" ID wire compression spring, with a washer on each end. This pushesthebinder pulley back into the drive pulley, creating the friction that allowsthe machine to work. The machine is clamped to your bench.In use, the rod section is fed through the middle of the binder pulleyfromthe back. After attaching the thread, you slowly pull the section throughfromthe front with your left hand. You crank in one direction with your righthand direction for the second wrap. I thought I might need a brake on the drivewheel so that I could stop and change hand positions without losingtension,but there is enough drag built in that it was not necessary. from destinycon@mindspring.com Wed May 6 20:46:12 1998 Subject: Re: Fitting Ferrules 802/525-3623 At 08:27 PM 5/6/98 +0000, you wrote:Does someone have a phone # for Baily Woods? Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from allen@chem.eng.usyd.edu.au Wed May 6 20:54:07 1998 (5.65v3.2/1.1.10.5/24Jul97-0344PM) request>ilp from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed May 6 20:55:11 1998 Subject: Re: Binder for Amateurs In a message dated 5/7/98 1:29:12 AM, you wrote: Harry - The thread does produce enough pressure for a tight glue joint. Ihaveglued up numerous rods by hand with thread being fed off an old reel withafew lbs. pressure. I see no reason why wooden wheels would not work asreplacements for the pullys. from emiller257@dataflo.net Wed May 6 21:23:16 1998 wddataflo.dataflo.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA26488 for Subject: Re: Binder for Amateurs TSmithwick wrote: In a message dated 5/7/98 1:29:12 AM, you wrote: something?>> Harry - The thread does produce enough pressure for a tight glue joint. Ihaveglued up numerous rods by hand with thread being fed off an old reelwith afew lbs. pressure. I see no reason why wooden wheels would not work asreplacements for the pullys.Tom, thanks for sharing this simple buteffectivelooking tool. It certainly looks like something I can handle,simple enough for my ability .And cheap to make. Thanks again.....Ed Miller from channer@hubwest.com Wed May 6 21:26:12 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AC347300EC; Wed, 06 May 1998 20:28:04 MDT Subject: Re: Fitting Ferrules At 08:27 PM 5/6/98 +0000, you wrote:Does someone have a phone # for Baily Woods? Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ Jon;Don't you get the Planing Form, its in there every month, Classic SportingEnterprises,802-525-3623John Channer from hokkaido_flyfisher@yahoo.com Wed May 6 21:33:51 1998 Subject: Apprenticeship in Japan Dear Rodmakers, A few weeks ago, I have started an apprenticeshipto make a bamboo rod here in Sapporo, Japan. My sensei has guided me through the initial steps to the point where we've finished the final planing ... we're waiting for some mutual free time to glue the rod. Hoshihara-sensei has been making cane rods for about10 years, and he'd like to get some more informationon custom grade planing forms ... does anyone outthere have any address & comments? Much appreciated, Christian ==Mr. Christian THALACKERc/o Asaina Michiko-san Otaru University of CommerceMatsugae 2-6-30 Otaru International Center047-0022 Hokkaido JAPAN Midori 3-5-21 Otaru047 Hokkaido JAPAN Email: Hokkaido_Flyfisher@yahoo.comHompepage: http://members.tripod.com/~Nijimasu/O.html_________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from Ragnarig@aol.com Wed May 6 21:34:00 1998 Subject: Re: Shenandoah BBQ Chris When is this catfish bake supposed to take place? Davy from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed May 6 21:37:58 1998 Thu, 7 May 1998 10:37:48 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Para Casting Experience... On Wed, 6 May 1998, Jon Lintvet wrote: I just finished a Para 6wt. I went out and cast it with a 5wt Cortland 444 and I wasn't sure so I went and bought a Cortland SL 444 6wt. Still not sure. I don't know if it is the line or what but I have not gotten the hang of it. I am going out tomorrow to cast again. I must say the rod is heavy. Next one along these lines I am scallop building. Oh ohhh, the first steps with a para. What is the rod? Assuming the rod is built right and I do assume that, I'd stick with the lighter line and relax during the cast. Possibly the reel is too light if it feels heavy?The reason I always say do a bit of lawn casting then put the rod away and try again is that learning to cast a para *can* be difficult depending on what you're used to and all trying too hard will do is gradually shorten the length of the cast because you get stressed and try too hard. With a bit of practice it'll all click and you'll get that "ah ha" feeling and see why people bother with them. Pretend you're on the stream and time dosn't matter, that might get you in the right frame of mind. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed May 6 22:13:40 1998 Subject: Re: Re: machine shop link Bob, from the quality of your reel seats the lack of shop training seemsirrelevant. Yes, they arrived and are great.Regards, Hank. from sats@gte.net Wed May 6 22:13:54 1998 Subject: Re: Weakening a rod WAA13866 thatare missing tips, or have tips 13" long!) Terry - I am looking for a good Granger n/s uplock reel seat. Any chanceyouhave a discard butt section with one attached you'd consider partingwith? Ifso, please let me know.Thanks and Regards,Richard Tyree I took a look through my "junk" ( and most of it is.) and couldn't findanything even close to a granger. Sorry. I'll keep an eye out in my wanderings. Terry K. --Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed May 6 22:13:54 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Ah....Springtime Tony,The guy would be a rough fish-you'd have to pickle him.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed May 6 22:14:03 1998 Subject: Re: Stress curves Bob,I may be wrong but I've found that the 200,000 mark to be too low-if youget to 300,000 then I would start to worry. This stuff can stand a lotmoreabuse than most people think.Regards, Hank. from channer@hubwest.com Wed May 6 22:19:40 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A8B93F00E2; Wed, 06 May 1998 21:21:29 MDT Subject: Re: Binder for Amateurs At 03:58 PM 5/6/98 EDT, you wrote:The attachment is a JPEG photo of a binder.It has always seemed to me that any binder I tried was a bit tricky to setupand adjust. I guess it's OK if you make a lot of rods and get the feel forthethings by using them all the time. Half the time I don't even bother, andbind Here is a binder that:Can be built with hardware store parts.Is easy to adjust and intuitive to use.Is portable.It consists of two 6" pulleys mounted on !/2" ID, 5/8" OD copper watertube. A5/8" retaining ring holds each in place. The copper tube is mounted to theplywood frame with pipe hanging straps. The drive pulley has a length of"V"belt contact cemented in it's groove, in effect a rubber tire. It also has ahandle mounted, so it can be cranked by the user.The binder pulley has a spool of thread, a thread tensioner, and a threadguide mounted on it's face. In front of the binder pulley, on it's shaft is a5/8" ID wire compression spring, with a washer on each end. This pushesthebinder pulley back into the drive pulley, creating the friction that allowsthe machine to work. The machine is clamped to your bench.In use, the rod section is fed through the middle of the binder pulley fromthe back. After attaching the thread, you slowly pull the section throughfromthe front with your left hand. You crank in one direction with your righthand direction for the second wrap. I thought I might need a brake on the drivewheel so that I could stop and change hand positions without losingtension,but there is enough drag built in that it was not necessary. Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\ATTACH\binder" Tom;I have miserable luck with attachments, as usual, I couldn't get yours toopen, not even thru file manager. Could I ask you to snail mail me apicture or drawing of your binder, it sounds like something that will workbetter for me than the bastardized Garrison creation I made myself,although thanks to Chris Bogarts tips I finally got it to get thru mosttimes without breaking thread. Am I guessing right that this is a low techversion of Dawn Holbrooks design or Bob Milwards? Would like to buildsomething uncomplicated that even I won't twist the rod with. Thanks John Channer5154 Hwy 172Durango, Co.81301 from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed May 6 22:36:33 1998 Thu, 7 May 1998 11:36:19 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Binder for Amateurs John,I didn't pay much attention to the file in question but try opening it using Netscape or that other browser Micro Soft peddle. You'll be able to view it then. Tony Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\ATTACH\binder" Tom;I have miserable luck with attachments, as usual, I couldn't get yours toopen, not even thru file manager. Could I ask you to snail mail me apicture or drawing of your binder, it sounds like something that willworkbetter for me than the bastardized Garrison creation I made myself,although thanks to Chris Bogarts tips I finally got it to get thru mosttimes without breaking thread. Am I guessing right that this is a lowtechversion of Dawn Holbrooks design or Bob Milwards? Would like to buildsomething uncomplicated that even I won't twist the rod with. Thanks John Channer5154 Hwy 172Durango, Co.81301 /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from Ragnarig@aol.com Wed May 6 22:41:24 1998 Subject: Re: Para Casting Experience... Dear John Probably the lighter line would be better. Oftentimes the Triangle-Taperlines are worth a try. Take your time and forget about that graphite"follow- through" - keep your stroke at the top and let the rod do the work. It doestake a little getting used to. Cast this rod every day for a few weeks and I'll bet you forget all thatrashtalk about scalloping. Carbohydrates before you cast, then protein after :-) Davy Riggs from saweiss@flash.net Wed May 6 22:41:57 1998 Does someone have a phone # for Baily Woods? Phone is (802) 525-3623/fax 3982.Steve Weiss from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed May 6 22:47:42 1998 Subject: RE:Apprenticeship in Japan RO>Dear Rodmakers, RO>A few weeks ago, I have started an apprenticeshipRO>to make a bamboo rod here in Sapporo, Japan. RO>My sensei has guided me through the initial stepsRO>to the point where we've finished the final planingRO>... we're waiting for some mutual free time to glueRO>the rod. RO>Hoshihara-sensei has been making cane rods for aboutRO>10 years, and he'd like to get some more informationRO>on custom grade planing forms ... does anyone outRO>there have any address & comments? RO>Much appreciated, Christian Christian, I posted a copy of your posts from FF@ - people know you already! I'm sure you will get several sources of forms. But take a look atJerry's URL again - Tom Penrose and several others show you how to makeforms. Frank A. in Co is a source of metal forms. (I'm saving my pennies to buya set myself) Don Burns from deuchman@hereintown.net Wed May 6 22:54:02 1998 23:53:55-0400 Subject: Hickory Rod.... =_NextPart_000_01BD794A.3AEEA0E0" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD794A.3AEEA0E0 I really appreciate all of the comments on my idea of building a hickory =rod. In reference to Ralph's mention of the article in The Planing Form =it was in issue # 27 from one Bill Keel of Marietta GA (reproduced in =The Best Of The Planing Form book). His idea was to use hickory dowels =(as are used in the fabrication of ram rods for black powder guns), and =slip sanding them to achieve the desired flex when compared to a bamboo=rod. Incidentally, this is where my idea originated. Any wooden rods =that I have read about thus far were constructed in this manner, save =Tonkin rods. What I plan to attempt is to saw the hickory into square =rods (my hickory boards are leftover scraps from a woodworker friend =that made a rocking chair), and scarf them into strips of the proper =length to run through the planing form (which I am still in the process =of making). The piece of hickory that I have is of unusually straight =grained nature (said friend is a stickler for choosing beautiful pieces =of wood), and actually fairly light in weight. I plan to maintain a =strict orientation of the grain of the wood when scarfing and planing =the strips so as to eliminate any "baseball bat-like sweetspot", and to =maintain as much of the power of the wood as possible. When gluing up =the sections I plan to follow the cane rod's hex design instead of slip =sanding to round, in order to help minimize the possibility of a "sweet =spot" design. Not being a rodmaker (yet), or what I would consider an =accomplished woodworker, I think that this approach will lend itself to =a greater possibility of a successful attempt at my idea than any other. Perhaps my efforts will end with a less than suitable rod for fishing =purposes, but if that is the case would it not be good practice for =making a Tonkin rod, and make a wonderful "wall hanging" rod in the same=process. After all, would a cane rod be happier on a wall, or on a = As for going straight to Tonkin, rest assured that is where my ideals =are leading. I was just pondering the possibility of my ideas with wood = Rich Keller230 National HighwayLaVale, MD. 21502deuchman@hereintown.net> from flyfisher@nextdim.com Wed May 623:13:32 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id A3A61A830152; Wed, 06 May 1998 21:08:06 PDT Subject: Re: Hickory Rod.... Rick and all, when I first got started, I was a little afraid of ruining thebamboo strips so I practiced on pine strips till I was satisfied that Icould maintain the correct angles and dimensions before I attemptedworkingwithDell Coppock,"IN THE GREAT NORTHWEST"http://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail flyfisher@nextdim.com- ----Original Message----- Subject: Hickory Rod.... I really appreciate all of the comments on my idea of building a hickoryrod. In reference to Ralph's mention of the article in The Planing Form itwas in issue # 27 from one Bill Keel of Marietta GA (reproduced in TheBestOf The Planing Form book). His idea was to use hickory dowels (as areusedin the fabrication of ram rods for black powder guns), and slip sandingthemto achieve the desired flex when compared to a bamboo rod. Incidentally,this is where my idea originated. Any wooden rods that I have read aboutthus far were constructed in this manner, save Tonkin rods. What I plan toattempt is to saw the hickory into square rods (my hickory boards areleftover scraps from a woodworker friend that made a rocking chair), andscarf them into strips of the proper length to run through the planing form(which I am still in the process of making). The piece of hickory that Ihave is of unusually straight grained nature (said friend is a stickler forchoosing beautiful pieces of wood), and actually fairly light in weight. Iplan to maintain a strict orientation of the grain of the wood whenscarfingand planing the strips so as to eliminate any "baseball bat-likesweetspot",and to maintain as much of the power of the wood as possible. Whengluingup the sections I plan to follow the cane rod's hex design instead of slipsanding to round, in order to help minimize the possibility of a "sweetspot" design. Not being a rodmaker (yet), or what I would consider anaccomplished woodworker, I think that this approach will lend itself to agreater possibility of a successful attempt at my idea than any other. Perhaps my efforts will end with a less than suitable rod for fishingpurposes, but if that is the case would it not be good practice for making aTonkin rod, and make a wonderful "wall hanging" rod in the same process.After all, would a cane rod be happier on a wall, or on a stream? As for going straight to Tonkin, rest assured that is where my ideals areleading. I was just pondering the possibility of my ideas with wood firstsince I was able to acquire the leftovers for free. Rich Keller230 National HighwayLaVale, MD. 21502deuchman@hereintown.net from Fallcreek9@aol.com Wed May 6 23:14:28 1998 Subject: Re: Binder for Amateurs In a message dated 98-05-06 22:01:16 EDT, you write: Harry, Tom: I built a Milward-type binder and made the 4 pullys fromPoplarwhich was completely satisfactory. Tom, your one-spool, one wheel ideawithtwo passes is brilliant by comparison. Keeping four tensioners in sync isaproblem. Think I will convert mine forthwith. Thanks for the idea.Regards,Richard from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed May 6 23:25:25 1998 Subject: Re: Apprenticeship in Japan Christian -You might contact Yuki Sasano there in Japan from allen@chem.eng.usyd.edu.au Wed May 6 23:45:45 1998 (5.65v3.2/1.1.10.5/24Jul97-0344PM) Subject: coatings for splitcane rods Hi all I removed the original varnish with lots of methylated spirits and a ragso it was probably just shelak or some thing similar. But what I aminterested in finding out is the current product used by Split canerodmakers today.I am familiar with the two pack epoxies used on glass rods but I am tryingto achieve the more overall uniform coating that old rods obtained asopposed to the bulbous look two pack epoxies give Any one out there have any suggestions Allen from Nodewrrior@aol.com Wed May 6 23:47:08 1998 Subject: Re: Taper search 8'6" Does anybody have a nice 8'6" 3pc 5/6wt "Western" style taper they couldshare?Any help would be appreciated! Rob Hoffhines from hokkaido_flyfisher@yahoo.com Wed May 6 23:47:42 1998 Subject: Re: Apprenticeship in Japan .... Sasano Dear Wayne, I often visit the Sasano shop, but I havenever seen a set of planing forms available,at least at their shop in Sapporo (am Ierroneously assuming that Yuki Sasano andthe nationwide Sasano flyfishing shop are one in the same?). One of Hoshihara-sensei's friends made a set of forms a while back, but theywere unbalanced, ... thus unusable. So, he continues with a decent set ... but ison the lookout ... Any other leads would be VERY appreciated. Cheers & Tight Lines, Christian -Wayne Catt wrote:Christian -You might contact Yuki Sasano there in Japan. ==Mr. Christian THALACKERc/o Asaina Michiko-san Otaru University of CommerceMatsugae 2-6-30 Otaru International Center047-0022 Hokkaido JAPAN Midori 3-5-21 Otaru047 Hokkaido JAPAN Email: Hokkaido_Flyfisher@yahoo.comHompepage: http://members.tripod.com/~Nijimasu/O.html_________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from dickay@alltel.net Wed May 6 23:53:25 1998 XAA12314 Subject: Re: Binder for Amateurs John, I had to call my son for help. He suggested that I look up the file andwhen I found it there was no file extension. I renamed the file with a"JPG" extension and then was able to view it. Try it. Good Luck Dick Fuhrman from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu May 7 00:15:45 1998 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA10177 Subject: Re: An idea for a mill How would you get the taper??? Raise or lower the cutters at some rateproportional to the feed rate??? Also, planers tend to "snipe" about 6" ateither end. I wouldn't think that this was too practical (unless all youwantedwas the 60 degree angle, then it seems a bit pricey for so littleresults-wise). My $0.02,George Bourke ----------From: David Rogers Subject: An idea for a millDate: Wednesday, May 06, 1998 6:16 PM I've come up with an idea for a mill based on comments by master mill-maker Chris. I thought I wold run it by the list for comments. The idea is to use a moulder/planer--the kind of tool used to cut mouldings for homes (and plane rough lumber). Jet has one that runs for about $760. Using a 4-inch blank knife set, have a machine shop custom cut a tool to cut six strips at once. It would look something like this: |-------------------||_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_| Then build a jig to hold the split strips. The strips would sit on an anvil similar to the ones used on the Bellinger or Morgan mills with the taper. The jig and strips would run through the moulder/planer, machining the strips to the final taper. I would rig a spring-loaded hold-down at the front and back of the moulder/planer similar to the ones that Bob Milward uses on his. With one pass, a section is ready I would be interested in feedback as to whether you think this would work. David ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu May 7 00:36:00 1998 Subject: Re: Apprenticeship in Japan .... Sasano Christian -Yuki and his son were just here with me in Michigan. I would suspectthatyou will see evidence of their visit there in Japan shortly Wayne from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu May 7 00:50:41 1998 Thu, 7 May 1998 13:49:57 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Ah....Springtime On Wed, 6 May 1998, FISHWOOL wrote: Tony,The guy would be a rough fish-you'd have to pickle him.Hank. He would have to have been 50% pickled to do it wouldn't he? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from hokkaido_flyfisher@yahoo.com Thu May 7 01:45:50 1998 Subject: Re: Apprenticeship in Japan .... Sasano visit Dear Wayne, Hmmm .... a message cryptic & intriguing ...I will keep my eyes open ... Cheers & Tight Lines, Christian --Wayne Catt wrote:Christian -Yuki and his son were just here with me in Michigan. I would suspect that you will see evidence of their visit there in Japan shortlyWayne _________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Thu May 7 02:45:53 1998 ; Thu, 7 May 1998 19:45:34 +1200 Subject: Re: Binder for Amateurs Thank you for that advice Tony . A great help to computor illiterates likeme , and my son is not home to tell his poor old dad what to do . John ,I looked up the file using Netscape , had no trouble , and the binderlooks very simple .I was going to build myself a Garrison binder on theweekend but will now try this instead . Thanks Tom . Iank At 11:36 AM 7/05/98 +0800, you wrote:John,I didn't pay much attention to the file in question but try opening it using Netscape or that other browser Micro Soft peddle. You'll be able to view it then. Tony Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\ATTACH\binder" Tom;I have miserable luck with attachments, as usual, I couldn't get yours toopen, not even thru file manager. Could I ask you to snail mail me apicture or drawing of your binder, it sounds like something that willworkbetter for me than the bastardized Garrison creation I made myself,although thanks to Chris Bogarts tips I finally got it to get thru mosttimes without breaking thread. Am I guessing right that this is a lowtechversion of Dawn Holbrooks design or Bob Milwards? Would like to buildsomething uncomplicated that even I won't twist the rod with. Thanks John Channer5154 Hwy 172Durango, Co.81301 /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email iank@nelson.planet.org.nz from channer@hubwest.com Thu May 7 03:55:21 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A76612F00FA; Thu, 07 May 1998 02:57:10 MDT Subject: Re: Binder for Amateurs At 11:54 PM 5/6/98 -0500, you wrote: John, I had to call my son for help. He suggested that I look up the file andwhen I found it there was no file extension. I renamed the file with a"JPG" extension and then was able to view it. Try it. Good Luck Dick Fuhrman Dick;It worked!!!! Much to my amazement, this&^%$%^&#@*machine actually didwhatI told it. Not only that, but the picture I printed out was much betterthan what I see on the screen.Thanks alot for the computer lesson. Any series of pictures and the files all end with vd, but the folders areblank,it might do my standing here a lot of good if I can bring them up.Thanks againJohn Channer from channer@hubwest.com Thu May 7 03:55:25 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A76B12F00FA; Thu, 07 May 1998 02:57:15 MDT Subject: binder for amateurs Tom;Please cancel my request for a snail mail picture, thanks to the expertadvise of Dick Furman, I was able to get the picture to come up. Now I havea bunch of questions. What kind of pulleys are these? They look better thanthe clothes line pulleys I have seen and not quite as heavy as the machinepulleys .Also, do you use tape to hold your splines together when you glue,if so, do you take it off as you bind? How long is the tubing the rod goesthru?I gotta stop at the hardware store tomorrow and see what they'vegot.Thanks for the picture and the info, this looks like a great machine. John Channer from Ragnarig@aol.com Thu May 7 06:24:55 1998 Subject: Re: Binder for Amateurs Dear Tom Thanks for sending the picture. This is wonderful! Beside being a good, simple contraption, it has definite sexualconnotations.Now I can make an even bigger pest of myself when my wife wanders intotheshop, "Hey honey, would you mind pulling on this whilst I..." Seriously, I think the basic principle is really good and I can't wait tostart playing with it. The idea. Davy from Cmwall@aol.com Thu May 7 06:45:43 1998 Subject: Re: 4'4" Guide Spacing A.J.,Thank you for posting guide spacing on 4'4" 4 wt. I just glued mine up last night . I glued up as a one piece but am going to cut in half andmakeit two .The half way point would 26" that would mean the stripper would be abovethefurrel.I suppose that would alright?? The best I remember you posted it wouldtake11/64furrel. Thanks, Mac from Ragnarig@aol.com Thu May 7 06:51:06 1998 Subject: Re: coatings for splitcane rods Dear Allen Most cane rod makers use marine spar varnish. A few, like myself, use arubbing oil like Birchwood Casey's Tru-oil gunstock finish. There are afewvariations on the theme but most use either an oil-based or urethanevarnishof some kind. You can rub it in by hand, brush it or spray it, but a great many fill a long,thin tube with varnish and dip the rod sections into it and slowly extractit Depends on how deep you want to get into it, and how the original finishwasapplied and do you want to replicate that. Good luck,Davy Riggs from jcole10@juno.com Thu May 7 07:45:56 1998 08:44:39 EDT Subject: Re: Binder for Amateurs Tony I to an a whiz on the computor, Could you tell me how to get thispicture on NetscapeThanks John Cole E-Mail jcole10@juno.comOn Thu, 7 May 1998 11:36:18 +0800 (WST) Tony Youngwrites:John,I didn't pay much attention to the file in question but try opening it using Netscape or that other browser Micro Soft peddle. You'll be able to view it then. Tony Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\ATTACH\binder" Tom;I have miserable luck with attachments, as usual, I couldn't get yours toopen, not even thru file manager. Could I ask you to snail mail me apicture or drawing of your binder, it sounds like something that will workbetter for me than the bastardized Garrison creation I made myself,although thanks to Chris Bogarts tips I finally got it to get thru mosttimes without breaking thread. Am I guessing right that this is a low techversion of Dawn Holbrooks design or Bob Milwards? Would like to buildsomething uncomplicated that even I won't twist the rod with. Thanks John Channer5154 Hwy 172Durango, Co.81301 /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu May 7 08:08:33 1998 Subject: Re: binder for amateurs In a message dated 5/7/98 9:00:48 AM, you wrote: John - The pulleys are what is sold around here as a standard machinepulleywith a 5/8" bore. The tube is about 6", but not critical. The tube for thedrive pulley is just long enough to butt into the other tube, and to keep it from wiggling I drilled and through bolted it in addition to the mountingstraps. I used my lathe to cut a small groove for the retaining rings, butthis could also be done with a hacksaw if you mark the places where theteethof the retaining ring will contact. You should find everything but thethreadtensioner at the hardware store.I do take off the tape, there is just enough room to do this in front of thetube, but it may be easier to do it as the section enters the back of thetube. If I had it to do again, I would make the plywood box no longer thanthetube to make this a bit easier. The fit between the tube and the pulleytendsto be tight, try a couple pieces to see if you can to get a loose fit,otherwise you may have to sand a bit off the tube or ream out the pulley. from sniderja@email.uc.edu Thu May 7 09:11:40 1998 Subject: new rod tryouts Had an opportunity to spend four days in the Smoky Mtns. (Nantahala River)testing the Tom Smithwick 5'6" model and the Sir D special 7'0" 3 pc.(bothnodeless). I was simply overwhelmed with the way these rods fished (evenwith my ineptness at rod building). Caught dozens of fish each day (darnedthings keep getting in the way of my casting!) including a couple of 15inchers (one a Brookie!). Thought the seven footer was a tad heavy (3 pc.)but discovered that it took less effort to cast (even had to shorten mybackcast) and it roll casts like a dream. These make rods 3 and 4, and I amnow hooked. Rod #2 (a shortened Tom Smithwick shortie) has and is beingfished like a dervish almost daily on the Missouri River in Montana for thepast 3 months. The recipient of the rod had to gall to call me and informme that it fishes so well that I should build one for myself! Thus, thereason for the North Carolina trip. Thanks to all for your patience(usually), helpful hints (always!), and encouragement (enthusiastic!).Sorry to take up bandwidth, but thought you might appreciate the feedback.Jerry (don't let fish get in the way of your fishing!) Snider from saweiss@flash.net Thu May 7 10:11:25 1998 Subject: Re: binder for amateurs Tom,Somehow I didn't get the attachment with your e-mail.Could you please send it to me again? To minimize use of Rodmakersbandwidth, send it tosaweiss@flash.net from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Thu May 7 10:17:17 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: FW: bamboo milling machine Morgan mill takes just about as thick of shaving as you want to take andas thin as .001. The tow 60 degree carbide inserts work as scrapers andif you know how to work a scraper properly you know that in assents witha rolled edge it will remove wood/bamboo as fast as a plane. The foundthat if you soak the strips long thick shavings comes off with ease, ifI hadn't seen it my self I wouldn't have believed it. I received mybrochure from Tom last night with 4 or 5 color photos glued to it one ofthem being a glued up section with 61 1/2 degree bevel and if any onewho could see a glue line on the end grain view is either a liar or hasthe vision of super man. Like I said earlier I had thought that anybodywould waste their money on a beveler was crazy, after all I spent 8years as a journeyman and master luthier hand making violins throughupright basses, but after seeing this mill and knowing how fast and howyou could go from split strips to glue up in one evening easy I amsaving my pennies for one. This may not be for everyone but I'M GOING TOGET ME ONE! ----------From: CampblRods[SMTP:CampblRods@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 1998 5:08 PM Subject: Re: FW: bamboo milling machine Patrick, how does this hand mill shave down the cane so quickly? TenMinutes?I can see how it would take half as long since you are tapering bothsides atonce, but I don't understand how it is doing it so fast. If this isreallyso, I agree that a beveler isn't what i need. I would like to go upto about25 rods a year and it sounds like this mill is just the thing I need.Thanks,Steve CampbellCampbell Rod Co.CampblRods@aol.com from davidjrogers@hotmail.com Thu May 7 10:44:32 1998 Thu, 07 May 1998 08:43:55 PDT Subject: Re: An idea for a mill The Morgan hand mill has a tapered "anvil". The enamel side of the the bamboo strip is placed on the anvil and as the jig moves under the cutters it naturally takes on the taper. there is no raising or lowering of the cutters. How would you get the taper??? Raise or lower the cutters at some rateproportional to the feed rate??? Also, planers tend to "snipe" about 6" ateither end. I wouldn't think that this was too practical (unless all youwantedwas the 60 degree angle, then it seems a bit pricey for so littleresults-wise). My $0.02,George Bourke ----------From: David Rogers I've come up with an idea for a mill based on comments by master mill-maker Chris. I thought I wold run it by the list for comments. The idea is to use a moulder/planer--the kind of tool used to cut mouldings for homes (and plane rough lumber). Jet has one that runs about $760. Using a 4-inch blank knife set, have a machine shop custom cut a tool to cut six strips at once. It would look something like this: |-------------------||_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_| Then build a jig to hold the split strips. The strips would sit on an anvil similar to the ones used on the Bellinger or Morgan mills with the taper. The jig and strips would run through the moulder/planer, machining the strips to the final taper. I would rig a spring-loaded hold-down at the front and back of the moulder/planer similar to the ones that Bob Milward uses on his. With one pass, a section is ready I would be interested in feedback as to whether you think this would work. David ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from mcoy@sduhsd.k12.ca.us Thu May 7 11:01:59 1998 R8.00.00) Subject: Re:Binder for Amateurs --simple boundary I would love to view this attachment, but it will not come up. I added thejpgextension without success. Can you please repost or send it to medirectly. mcoy@sduhsd.k12.ca.us ____________________Reply Separator____________________Subject: Binder for AmateursAuthor: The attachment is a JPEG photo of a binder.It has always seemed to me that any binder I tried was a bit tricky to setupand adjust. I guess it's OK if you make a lot of rods and get the feel for thethings by using them all the time. Half the time I don't even bother, andbind Here is a binder that:Can be built with hardware store parts.Is easy to adjust and intuitive to use.Is portable.It consists of two 6" pulleys mounted on !/2" ID, 5/8" OD copper watertube. A5/8" retaining ring holds each in place. The copper tube is mounted to theplywood frame with pipe hanging straps. The drive pulley has a length of"V"belt contact cemented in it's groove, in effect a rubber tire. It also has ahandle mounted, so it can be cranked by the user.The binder pulley has a spool of thread, a thread tensioner, and a threadguide mounted on it's face. In front of the binder pulley, on it's shaft is a5/8" ID wire compression spring, with a washer on each end. This pushesthebinder pulley back into the drive pulley, creating the friction that allowsthe machine to work. The machine is clamped to your bench.In use, the rod section is fed through the middle of the binder pulley fromthe back. After attaching the thread, you slowly pull the section throughfromthe front with your left hand. You crank in one direction with your righthand direction for the second wrap. I thought I might need a brake on the drivewheel so that I could stop and change hand positions without losingtension,but there is enough drag built in that it was not necessary.Received: fromintergate.sduhsd.k12.ca.us by ntsmtp.sduhsd.k12.ca.us (ccMailLink to SMTP R8.00.00); Wed, 06 May 98 13:15:41 -0800 intergate.sduhsd.k12.ca.us (8.8.5/8.8.0) with ESMTP id NAA06654 for Subject: Binder for Amateurs boundary="part0_894484694_boundary" --simple boundary-- from thramer@presys.com Thu May 7 11:32:36 1998 Subject: Re: 4'4" Guide Spacing Cmwall wrote: A.J.,Thank you for posting guide spacing on 4'4" 4 wt. I just glued mineup last night . I glued up as a one piece but am going to cut in half andmakeit two .The half way point would 26" that would mean the stripper would beabove thefurrel.I suppose that would alright?? The best I remember you posted it wouldtake11/64furrel. Thanks, Mac The guide spacing is all measured from the tip. The strip guide shouldbutt against the female ferrule.A.J. from SalarFly@aol.com Thu May 7 11:39:04 1998 Subject: Re: Stress curves In a message dated 5/6/98 1:43:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time,RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu writes: In graphing a taper for a 7wt, the stress factors move quickly up to250K.My question is how much can cane handle, what is too high? The exactfigures for the first few stations are as follows (in thousands): 1"=61.7, Are thefigures at the 10 thru 20 inch stations too high and should I adjust thedimensions of this taper? Thanks in advance, Bob. What are you going to be using this rod for? Since it is a 7 wt, I wouldguess that it's not just for trout? It will probably cast okay, but I wouldbe real careful when trying to land something large. Be sure not to "givehim the butt", that is really haul back putting a deep bend in the rod.The best thing to do is hold the rod up over your head with your wristrotated away. The reel will then be facing up and away from you. Ifyou are careful to do this when landing a large fish, and don't yankback with the rod when you get hooked on a bush or tree it shouldbe fine. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Thu May 7 11:40:26 1998 Subject: Re: new rod tryouts In a message dated 5/7/98 7:17:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time,sniderja@email.uc.edu writes: Had an opportunity to spend four days in the Smoky Mtns. (NantahalaRiver)testing the Tom Smithwick 5'6" model and the Sir D special 7'0" 3 pc.(bothnodeless). I was simply overwhelmed with the way these rods fished Thought the seven footer was a tad heavy (3 pc.)but discovered that it took less effort to cast (even had to shorten mybackcast) and it roll casts like a dream. That taper is something special. I've been raving about that taperon this list for years. Your comment about the perceived ease of casting interested me, I noticed the same thing. I think because of the balance point of the rod ( with my reel it balances 2 inches down into the handle), there is less mass out in front of your hand, and as you cast it feels lighter. The roll casting is due to the "Cattanach hinge." It's the blip in the stress curve you see in the butt section. I recently made 2 of one of the variations of this taper Wayne posted afew months ago, the 6' 3" 3 piece. Sold one blank to a fellow lister, and was going to finish the other one for myself, but that one got sold too. I wish I could report on how they cast. Remember the 5' one piece I posted about recently? It's based on the same taper. Darryl Hayashida from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Thu May 7 11:48:19 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: An idea for a mill the anvil on morgans mill is not tapered its straight but has push pullbolts every 5" that allows you to set any taper you want and the cuttermoves over the anvil and strip and removes material. the bamboo strip iscut 4" longer and attached to the anvil with one screw at the back end.the only thing that moves is the part that hold the cutters. ----------From: David Rogers[SMTP:davidjrogers@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, May 07, 1998 8:43 AM Subject: Re: An idea for a mill The Morgan hand mill has a tapered "anvil". The enamel side of thethe bamboo strip is placed on the anvil and as the jig moves under the cutters it naturally takes on the taper. there is no raising or lowering of the cutters. How would you get the taper??? Raise or lower the cutters at somerateproportional to the feed rate??? Also, planers tend to "snipe" about 6" ateither end. I wouldn't think that this was too practical (unless all youwantedwas the 60 degree angle, then it seems a bit pricey for so littleresults-wise). My $0.02,George Bourke ----------From: David Rogers I've come up with an idea for a mill based on comments by master mill-maker Chris. I thought I wold run it by the list forcomments. The idea is to use a moulder/planer--the kind of tool used to cut mouldings for homes (and plane rough lumber). Jet has one thatruns about $760. Using a 4-inch blank knife set, have a machine shop custom cut a tool to cut six strips at once. It would look something like this: |-------------------||_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_| Then build a jig to hold the split strips. The strips would sit on an anvil similar to the ones used on the Bellinger or Morgan millswith the taper. The jig and strips would run through the moulder/planer, machining the strips to the final taper. I would rig aspring-loaded hold-down at the front and back of the moulder/planer similar tothe ones that Bob Milward uses on his. With one pass, a section isready I would be interested in feedback as to whether you think thiswould work. David ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu May 7 12:15:08 1998 Subject: Binder One last bit of advice on the binder. you should rig up a light cardboardshield to prevent glue from dripping on the thread so it won't be ruinednexttime you use it. Alternatively, just use enough thread for the job at handanddispose of the excess. A bit of masking tape over it's inboard side willlikewise protect the tensioner. from sniderja@email.uc.edu Thu May 7 12:40:14 1998 Subject: Re: new rod tryouts At 12:39 PM 5/7/98 EDT, you wrote:In a message dated 5/7/98 7:17:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time,sniderja@email.uc.edu writes: Darryl, you once posted a hypothetical taper of the Sir Darryl, andpredicted that it would be a fast, really "hot" rod. Did you ever have achance to build it? Would love to have the results, as I have a mind tobuild that taper myself.Jerry Snider I recently made 2 of one of the variations of this taper Wayne posted afew months ago, the 6' 3" 3 piece. Sold one blank to a fellow lister, and was going to finish the other one for myself, but that one got sold too. Iwish I could report on how they cast. Remember the 5' one piece I posted about recently? It's based on the same taper. Darryl Hayashida from rodsmiths@imt.net Thu May 7 12:59:14 1998 cu.imt.net(8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA10376 for ;Thu, 7 May Subject: Hand Mill Dear rodmakers, I joined the listserver to read about bamboo information and to readwhat has been written about my Hand Mill. I will try to answerquestions and explain how it works. I may be overwhelmed with responses from what I've heard but will try. The Hand Mill doesn't ruin six inches of Bamboo on either end. On oneend you need to hold down the strip with a screw, or in some cases, apin will work. The amount of bamboo lost at the butt end is about twoinches. The tip of the strip whether it be a butt or tip strip is cutto the very end with none lost. The Hand Mill is very accurate and will provide six strips, or in thecase of tip strips, twelve strips that are cut exactly the same. Thisprovides glued up sections that are very accurate and both tips will bethe same dimension. My hope for the Hand Mill is to make it easier for bamboo rod makers ofany level of expertise to be able to make rods. I have workeddiligently to provide a product that will very accurately make bamboostrips. As anyone knows who has made bamboo rods cutting strips is onlypart of the process and the preparation of the bamboo is criticalregardless of the cutting process. Whether it be my Hand Mill, apowered milling machine, or a hand plane the outside surface of thebamboo (the nodes) must be perfect or the final results will bedisappointing. The Hand Mill is a bit pricey which I understand. It is a precisionpiece of equipment and must be manufactured very accurately in order toprovide the end result required by rodmakers. It has been a lot of fun for me to design and develop. Thanks, Tom Morgan from ghinde@inconnect.com Thu May 7 13:19:24 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Hand Mill Tom Please send a copy of your brochure on the Hand MillTHANK YOU George Greys River Rod Co.5763 McMillan CircleMurray, Utah 84107 ----------From: Tom Morgan & Gerri Carlson Subject: Hand MillDate: Thursday, May 07, 1998 11:59 AM Dear rodmakers, I joined the listserver to read about bamboo information and to readwhat has been written about my Hand Mill. I will try to answerquestions and explain how it works. I may be overwhelmed withresponses from what I've heard but will try. The Hand Mill doesn't ruin six inches of Bamboo on either end. On oneend you need to hold down the strip with a screw, or in some cases, apin will work. The amount of bamboo lost at the butt end is about twoinches. The tip of the strip whether it be a butt or tip strip is cutto the very end with none lost. The Hand Mill is very accurate and will provide six strips, or in thecase of tip strips, twelve strips that are cut exactly the same. Thisprovides glued up sections that are very accurate and both tips will bethe same dimension. My hope for the Hand Mill is to make it easier for bamboo rod makers ofany level of expertise to be able to make rods. I have workeddiligently to provide a product that will very accurately make bamboostrips. As anyone knows who has made bamboo rods cutting strips isonlypart of the process and the preparation of the bamboo is criticalregardless of the cutting process. Whether it be my Hand Mill, apowered milling machine, or a hand plane the outside surface of thebamboo (the nodes) must be perfect or the final results will bedisappointing. The Hand Mill is a bit pricey which I understand. It is a precisionpiece of equipment and must be manufactured very accurately in order toprovide the end result required by rodmakers. It has been a lot of fun for me to design and develop. Thanks, Tom Morgan from dunkeld@selway.umt.edu Thu May 7 14:07:22 1998 13:07:16-0600 13:07:12 Subject: Re: Apprenticeship in Japan .... Sasano visit Hi Chris! What a surprise. Maybe Yuki who visited Mr. Wayne is not Sasano but Mr. Yukinari Bando wholives in Chicago. Yuki is writing articles about bamboo rod builders inUSA which you can read in the magazine called "Furai no zasshi" publishedin Japan. The latest article was about Mr. Glenn Bracket of the Winston. Naohisa On Wed, 6 May 1998, Christian THALACKER wrote: Dear Wayne, Hmmm .... a message cryptic & intriguing ...I will keep my eyes open ... Cheers & Tight Lines, Christian --Wayne Catt wrote:Christian -Yuki and his son were just here with me in Michigan. I would suspect that you will see evidence of their visit there in Japan shortlyWayne _________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com * Naohisa Kanda ** Division of Biological Sciences ** University of Montana ** Missoula, MT 59812 * from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu May 7 14:32:52 1998 Subject: Re: new rod tryouts RO>>I recently made 2 of one of the variations of this taper Wayne posteda fewRO>>months ago, the 6' 3" 3 piece. Sold one blank to a fellow lister, andwasRO>>going to finish the other one for myself, but that one got sold too. IRO>wish IRO>>could report on how they cast. Remember the 5' one piece I postedaboutRO>>recently? It's based on the same taper.RO>>RO>>Darryl Hayashida Darryl, You could finish the 6'3" for me and then I'd be kind enough to let youtest it. Don Burns from SalarFly@aol.com Thu May 7 14:36:18 1998 Subject: Re: new rod tryouts In a message dated 5/7/98 10:42:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time,sniderja@email.uc.edu writes: Darryl, you once posted a hypothetical taper of the Sir Darryl, andpredicted that it would be a fast, really "hot" rod. Did you ever have achance to build it? Would love to have the results, as I have a mind tobuild that taper myself. That's the taper I have been writing about off and on. The tight loop, no roll cast rod. It will throw a lot of line, due mostly to it'stremendouslystrong butt section and tight loop design tip, but it doesn't roll castworth beans. If you don't ever need to roll cast it's a good short rod.Darryl from Cmwall@aol.com Thu May 7 14:54:06 1998 Subject: Re: 4'4" Guide Spacing Thanks A.J. Mac from RVenneri@aol.com Thu May 7 15:39:06 1998 Subject: Re: machine shop link Hank Thanks for the compliment. I try to sell a quality product at a fair price.If you need any thing else or you need a custom seat give me a call or dropmea line.Thanks againBob VVenneri's Custom Components21 Chuck Hill RoadSaugerties N Y 12477914 246 5882 from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Thu May 7 15:44:25 1998 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Thu, 07 May 98 16:43:03 EDT Subject: Re: Stress curves Interesting technique. With salmon, and I intend this as a grilse rod,it's very important to keep the butt low and the arc of the rod low. (By alow arc I mean the curve formed by the rod from butt to tip.) This way itis still possible to "put the wood to 'em" but still be able to reactquickly to a sudden change of direction, a leap or summersault. Holdingthe rod too high at the butt has the effect of increasing the arc, making abrake more likely, and reducing reaction time. There is another advantageof a low arc and it has to do with moving the fish. They seem to cooperatemore when the angle of line to the surfact of the water is lower,sometimesmaking it possible to move a fish out of a strong current, or away from anobstruction and so on. There are mayflies swarming outside my officewindow, and ... So, by your comments I'm guessing the 250K range is no problem? Bob. At 12:38 PM 5/7/98 EDT, you wrote:In a message dated 5/6/98 1:43:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time,RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu writes: In graphing a taper for a 7wt, the stress factors move quickly up to250K.My question is how much can cane handle, what is too high? The exactfigures for the first few stations are as follows (in thousands):1"=61.7, Arethefigures at the 10 thru 20 inch stations too high and should I adjust thedimensions of this taper? Thanks in advance, Bob. What are you going to be using this rod for? Since it is a 7 wt, I wouldguess that it's not just for trout? It will probably cast okay, but I wouldbe real careful when trying to land something large. Be sure not to "givehim the butt", that is really haul back putting a deep bend in the rod.The best thing to do is hold the rod up over your head with your wristrotated away. The reel will then be facing up and away from you. Ifyou are careful to do this when landing a large fish, and don't yankback with the rod when you get hooked on a bush or tree it shouldbe fine. Darryl Hayashida Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128 from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu May 7 16:08:40 1998 (205.236.249.176) Subject: Re: FW: bamboo milling machine Carbide cutters cannot stand the rake angles that that can be put oncarbonsteel plane blades, so more force is required to cut, add to this you arecutting two sides at once. It does not sound right to me at all. Whathappens to your tolerances once the strips have dried out?I would try it out before I shelled out any cash. Hand planing is handplaning and whether you pull or push, there is no mechanical advantage asfar as I can see.Practice with a hand plane and split accurately and anyone can knock out atwo tip blank in a day.Terry Coffey, Patrick W wrote: Morgan mill takes just about as thick of shaving as you want to take andas thin as .001. The tow 60 degree carbide inserts work as scrapers andif you know how to work a scraper properly you know that in assentswitha rolled edge it will remove wood/bamboo as fast as a plane. The foundthat if you soak the strips long thick shavings comes off with ease, ifI hadn't seen it my self I wouldn't have believed it. I received mybrochure from Tom last night with 4 or 5 color photos glued to it one ofthem being a glued up section with 61 1/2 degree bevel and if any onewho could see a glue line on the end grain view is either a liar or hasthe vision of super man. Like I said earlier I had thought that anybodywould waste their money on a beveler was crazy, after all I spent 8years as a journeyman and master luthier hand making violins throughupright basses, but after seeing this mill and knowing how fast and howyou could go from split strips to glue up in one evening easy I amsaving my pennies for one. This may not be for everyone but I'M GOING TOGET ME ONE! ----------From: CampblRods[SMTP:CampblRods@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 1998 5:08 PM Subject: Re: FW: bamboo milling machine Patrick, how does this hand mill shave down the cane so quickly? TenMinutes?I can see how it would take half as long since you are tapering bothsides atonce, but I don't understand how it is doing it so fast. If this isreallyso, I agree that a beveler isn't what i need. I would like to go upto about25 rods a year and it sounds like this mill is just the thing I need.Thanks,Steve CampbellCampbell Rod Co.CampblRods@aol.com from Canerods@aol.com Thu May 7 16:15:41 1998 Subject: Re: coatings for splitcane rods In a message dated 98-05-07 00:51:46 EDT, you write: Allen, Spar varnish is the traditional finish. That and silk thread for the wraps.You might want to spend $25 and buy youself a copy of Michael Sinclair's"Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook" too. Don Burns from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu May 7 16:58:52 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA212958174; Thu, 7 May 1998 14:56:14 -0700 Subject: Re: coatings for splitcane rods Allen, A couple of other suggestions. Pre-coat the rod with a tung oil or other thin penetrating varnish finish prior to wrapping and finishing if dipping. Be sure any open seams are thoroughly sealed to prevent air bubbles and bleeds. If you plan to color preserve the wraps and are using non-black silk then start with a highly thinned coat of preserver, then a couple coats of full strength followed by a coat or two of polyurethane finish to seal and dry quickly. If you use a dip method and spar varnish allow the preserved wraps to dry thoroughly (several days) before dipping. Heat the room room or the varnish tank up and don't hesitate to thin the spar varnish as much as about 12% and withdraw at about 3" to 4" per minute. I've found that a slower rate results in more spar varnish bleeds I guess because of the time and pressure of being in the tube. Although I think it's accurate for old rods spar varnish drives me wacko sometimes (ashort drive) with it's propensity to bleed into the wraps and darken the color. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from saltwein@swbell.net Thu May 7 17:52:54 1998 gw1adm.rcsntx.swbell.net RAA19712 Subject: Micing tapers Some questions for those of you who have done this before or who haveestablished, in your opinion, acceptable techniques. If you mic three flats and the readings are .124-.126-.126, would youassume the one flat was shy .002, or would you average them and considerthat station to be .125? I miced out a couple of rods today. I didn't care for the way the anvilon my caliper treated the varnish. Do any of you use a cloth orsomething to protect rods you are micing? I wouldn't want to damage arod someone was kind enough to let me measure. In measuring in areas where there is thread or a ferrule do youextrapolate the figure from the previous measurement? Example: Tipmeasurement at one inch down mic's at .082, the five inch measurement is.095, or an average, rounding up, of .003 per inch. Tip measurement atextreme is .079. Any input will be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu May 7 17:59:27 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA131891804; Thu, 7 May 1998 15:56:44 -0700 Subject: RE: Micing Tapers Steve, You could put a layer of masking tape over each of the jaws of the mic, then shut it down, note the measurement and subtract this amount fromeach of your measurements as you go. Chris McDowell from SalarFly@aol.com Thu May 7 18:03:46 1998 Subject: Re: Stress curves In a message dated 5/7/98 1:48:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time,RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu writes: Interesting technique. With salmon, and I intend this as a grilse rod,it's very important to keep the butt low and the arc of the rod low. (By alow arc I mean the curve formed by the rod from butt to tip.) This wayitis still possible to "put the wood to 'em" but still be able to reactquickly to a sudden change of direction, a leap or summersault. Holdingthe rod too high at the butt has the effect of increasing the arc, makingabrake more likely, and reducing react