from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Mon May 11 13:02:46 1998 (may beforged)) Subject: Re: Garrison Terry, John, A.J., et al. Engineers design, not build, per specifications set forth by MarketingDepartments. Marketing types want what they don't have to sell. Theyalso want a one size fits all / one size does all product. This iswhere the complexity comes in. Also Engineering is given the task of designing the product so that itcan be manufactured in a "Cost Effective" (read cheap) manner. Theproduct must also be reliable (last a day longer than the warranty) and work, and meet all agency standards for safety, capacity, andefficiency. Despite all our efforts, whatever we release for manufacture is stillnot what the purchaser wants, it's still too costly, it doesn't hold uplong enough, and someone will sue us because they misapplied it and itdoesn't work. (We didn't tell them in the Specification Sheet,Installation & Operation, or Owners Manual that it couldn't be used forthis purpose in this manner.) And it won't get somebody their rebate from some agency. Just my rant for today. Dick Fuhrman from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon May 11 13:53:00 1998 Subject: RE:sharpening blades RO>Would this still have an affect if I am using an on-the-stone bladeholder?RO>J. Snider. Guess not. Don from SalarFly@aol.com Mon May 11 14:00:04 1998 Subject: Re: sharpening blades In a message dated 5/11/98 7:39:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time,sniderja@email.uc.edu writes: 1. I use a plate glass shelf for the platform.2. True up the stone (both sides) on wet/dry sandpaper prior tosharpening.3. Use a squared jig to place the blade in the holder (it IS square!).4. Begin sharpening on the course side first. Every time I do this, itseems that I have to re establish the blade angle all over again.5. Once the angle is sharp from edge to edge and top to bottom, I go tothefine side.6. When I begin sharpening on the fine side of the stone, and not havingremoved the blade from the holder, it seems that I have to re establishtheangle ALL OVER again, edge to edge, top to bottom. Hmmm...Quite perplexing. Having to establish the bevel angle every time wouldindicate not clamping the blade in the guide the same way from onesharpening session to another, but you use a squared jig to set theblade in the guide. Not being able to polish the bevel once you have it from the coarseside indicates your stone isn't flat, but you flatten your stone on a piece of glass. A dished stone can be the reason for both problems. Are you sure yourpiece of glass is flat? Or perhaps your blade is slipping in the guide asyou sharpen? Just a couple of guesses. Just curious, what type of sharpening guide do you use? Darryl Hayashida from rodsmiths@imt.net Mon May 11 14:00:17 1998 cu.imt.net(8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA02348 for ;Mon, 11 May Subject: Hand Mill Function Rodmakers After reading a number of comments on the listserver I feel that it isimportant for me to describe how my Hand Mill functions. I decided inthe beginning that I didn't want to defend its use over other methodsbecause everyone sure should use the method that they prefer. I feelthat in fairness to my Hand Mill that people should be able tounderstand what it does and how it works then make an informed decisionabout whether or not they want to use it. My intent was and still is toprovide an alternative method to normal hand planing. The carbide inserts that serve as the cutters are set at 90 degrees tothe bamboo which would normally mean that they are scraping the bamboowhen a cut is made. That would be true if the cutters had squarefaces. I tried cutters like this and they were hard to push and in myopinion weren't effective. I tried inserts with a radiused chip breakerwhere the chip breaker(a chip breaker is a small radius around the edgesjust inside the cutting surface) comes very near the cutting surface. These chip breaker inserts worked very well reducing the cuttingforce(pushing) at least by 50 percent. In effect, this chip breakergives a true cutting angle similar to a plane at the point where thebamboo is actually removed. When cutting a strip the bamboo cuts verycleanly and a beautiful shaving is removed that is the length of thebamboo strip. The edges of the bamboo are so sharp you have to becareful handling them. Carbide inserts with chip breaker forms are standard in the cutting toolindustry. Replacement carbide inserts cost at this time $12 per set. One set will do at least ten rods and the Hand Mill comes with threesets. They never need resharpening, they are merely replaced. The Hand Mill uses a push/pull adjustment every five inches to set ataper. It works very much like a planing form that hand planers woulduse. The adjustments are made using a dial indicator for accuracy. Ittakes between ten and fifteen minutes to readjust a new taper into theadjustable bed. It does take about ten extra minutes if you arechanging from cutting tip strips to butt strips(or vice versa) to changethe anvil. The finish butt and tip anvils that come with the Hand Millwill last a long time. You do not need a dedicated pattern for eachtaper that can only be used for that taper. When a taper pattern is set using the adjustable bed and the dialindicator, the Hand Mill will produce exactly the pattern that is set. There is not a lot of checking of strips that needs to be done. Youonly need to check the strip where your reference point is to make surethe strip is the correct size at your ferrule station or other point youchoose as your reference. The nice thing about the Hand Mill is that itwill reproduce one section after another to the exact same taper. Whenyou cut twelve strips for a two tip rod and glue them together theresulting sections are extremely consistent to each other. One problem that does occur with a milling type machine that needs to beaddressed is the anvil taper. Since the anvil supports the entirebamboo strip it is possible that the anvil will become too narrow tosupport the strip when a small width strip is cut. I addressed this byhaving eleven stations where bamboo strips are held down. This allowseach strip to be mounted so the tip end of strip is at the narrow end ofthe anvil. Therefore, the anvil always remains wide enough to supportthe strip. The top of the anvils are radiused to a 1 7/8 inch diameter. Thisradius helps hold the bamboo while it is being planed. This radius issupplied with the anvils. There is a special attachment supplied withthe Hand Mill that insures the top of the anvils are parallel to thebase providing exceptional accuracy to the Hand Mill. The anvils neverhave to be radiused again. One of the amazing aspects of the Hand Mill is how crooked of a bamboostrip it will cut perfectly. It will cut strips that a regular millingmachine or a hand plane in a planing form would ruin. There is a simplereason for this. With milling machines the strips are held as rigidlyas possible as close to the cutters as is feasible. If there is a jogin the bamboo the cutter cuts it off because it has so much powerleaving a nick or divot in the bamboo. With a hand plane it is similarbecause one side of the bamboo is held rigidly against the side of theplaning form and the plane will cut off the high spot. It is almostimpossible to cut a nick or divot out of a bamboo strip using the HandMill. With the Hand Mill the two cutting surfaces provide the location of thestrip. When the Hand Mill plane travels down the bed the bamboo stripis free to float back and forth on top of the anvil in front of thecutters. This allows the cutters to cut equally on both sides of thebamboo. The grain of the bamboo is followed perfectly with no crosscutting of the fibers. However, I do not advocate cutting crooked strips. When crooked bamboostrips, particularly butt strips, are glued up the resulting rodsections will be crooked or could have glue seams in the area of thesevere crooks. I recommend straightening the bamboo strips in the normal manner donebyhand planers using either a lamp or better yet a heat gun. It takes nospecial equipment to straighten strips for my Hand Mill. The Hand Mill will take a strip split out of a culm and put the bevel onthe strip automatically. As you continue planing the strip the anglesremain true while giving the strip the correct taper. It doesn't needstrips that are a special width or consistent in width. It is very easyto use because it doesn't require any special preparation of the strips.The only requirement which is the same for any other process is that thenodes are prepared so the strip lies flat on the anvil. With anyprocess the accuracy of the strip depends on how perfect the enamel sideis. One benefit of the Hand Mill is that with the purchase of differentangled cutters 4-, 5-, and 6-strip rods can be made on the same machine. I am excited to see all of the interest in making bamboo rods. I havebeen fortunate in my life to be involved in the rodmaking business. Ihave always had a great affection for fly rods from my early days offishing. Very few people have had the opportunity to design as manydifferent rods as I have. It has been a lot of fun being able to workwith fiberglass, graphite, and bamboo rod designs. Each one has its owncharacteristics and benefits. Bamboo provides a unique opportunity for amateurs and professionalsalike in that it is easy to work and can be done at home with relativelyinexpensive equipment. Fiberglass and graphite is so capital intensivethat designing rods using those materials is out of the question foreveryone except big companies. The Internet has provided a wealth of resources for the exchange of popularity and help to refine the process of actually making rods. There are so many different ways of looking at a given problem that anindividual can choose the method that suits him the best. I feel thatit is very important to keep the exchange of ideas going withoutcriticizing anyone for a particular viewpoint. Keeping the free flow ofinformation is the most important-I don't think I ever talked to arodmaker that I didn't learn something from. Thanks for your time. Tom Morgan from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon May 11 14:16:40 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0500 Subject: Re: sharpening blades Jerry,No suggestions from me, because I had the same problem, exactly. Itried to use a King brand 1000/6000 combination waterstone. I do hopeyou getsome good answers, because at this point I have a useless $35 waterstone. Ifound that getting blades sharp was becoming such an obstacle that itreallytook some of the fun out of rod-building.I solved the problem entirely by using the sandpaper on glass method.A 2000 grit sandpaper from Wa***rt's automotive section gives me amuchsmoother edge in much less time than I was ever able to get from thewaterstone. I do lubricate the wet-dry paper with WD-40. With the MicroMeshsanding products available from Lea Valley, Jon Lintvet and others, you geteven sharper blades. Don't be afraid to give it a try. That mirror sharpedgetakes me only about 5 to 10 minutes. I'd like to ask a related question. Do any of you use the Lea Valleyangle setting jig? I'm afraid it doesn't get the angle EXACTLY the sameeachtime. Am I doing something wrong?Harry Boyd Jerry Snider wrote: Have tried several of the recommendations from the archives, but for methemost frustrating step is trying to get a really sharp plane blade. I DO getit, after about 4-5 hours of sharpening (3-4 blades). Even then, the bladeedge doesn't seem to be "true." Here is what I am doing (based primarily from the Cattanach book). Now, what am I doing WRONG?1. I use a plate glass shelf for the platform.2. True up the stone (both sides) on wet/dry sandpaper prior tosharpening.3. Use a squared jig to place the blade in the holder (it IS square!).4. Begin sharpening on the course side first. Every time I do this, itseems that I have to re establish the blade angle all over again.5. Once the angle is sharp from edge to edge and top to bottom, I go tothefine side.6. When I begin sharpening on the fine side of the stone, and not havingremoved the blade from the holder, it seems that I have to re establishtheangle ALL OVER again, edge to edge, top to bottom.Gets quite frustrating, to the point that I am inclined to go to the"Scarey Sharp" sharpening system.However, I must admit, the blades finally do get sharp. Sorry to interfere with the more "philosophical" debates going on with a"real" question, but I do appreciate any help, flames or no!Jerry Snider. from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon May 11 14:27:44 1998 Subject: Re: sharpening blades Following Catannach every step of the way, including blade holder, on thestone sharpening, same wetstone, etc. I, too, thought that the stone mightbe "dished," and perhaps will be a bit more anal about it when I sharpenagain tonight. After aligning the blade in the holder, I even use amachinists square to be certain that the blade is absolutely square in theholder. I don't BELIEVE that the blade is slipping in the holder, butperhaps? Nor is the angle adjustment creeping, as far as I can discern.As far as the plate glass is concerned, it is a very thick plate glass used absolutely flat.It has to be something simple I am not keying in on, but DARN it takesforever to get a blade sharp. Thanks for the input.At 02:57 PM 5/11/98 EDT, you wrote:In a message dated 5/11/98 7:39:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time,sniderja@email.uc.edu writes: 1. I use a plate glass shelf for the platform.2. True up the stone (both sides) on wet/dry sandpaper prior tosharpening.3. Use a squared jig to place the blade in the holder (it IS square!).4. Begin sharpening on the course side first. Every time I do this, itseems that I have to re establish the blade angle all over again.>> 5.Once the angle is sharp from edge to edge and top to bottom, I go tothefine side.6. When I begin sharpening on the fine side of the stone, and not havingremoved the blade from the holder, it seems that I have to re establishtheangle ALL OVER again, edge to edge, top to bottom. Hmmm...Quite perplexing. Having to establish the bevel angle every time wouldindicate not clamping the blade in the guide the same way from onesharpening session to another, but you use a squared jig to set theblade in the guide. Not being able to polish the bevel once you have it from the coarseside indicates your stone isn't flat, but you flatten your stone on a piece of glass. A dished stone can be the reason for both problems. Are you sure yourpiece of glass is flat? Or perhaps your blade is slipping in the guide asyou sharpen? Just a couple of guesses. Just curious, what type of sharpening guide do you use? Darryl Hayashida Jerry Snidere-mail: Sniderja@email.uc.eduhttp://www.biology.uc.edu/snider/jerry.htm from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon May 11 14:50:22 1998 Subject: Sharpening Over the weekend George Barnes mentioned the diamond paste and leatherwheelmethod of sharpening. Both of us have discussed this in the past, but forthenewbies, a photo is listed at:http:// members.aol.com/tsmithwickThe file is named sharpening.jpg. The method involves sawing a 5 3/4"circleout of a 2 X 6, truing it up, and contact cementing a leather strip to theOD.The wheel is then mounted to a motor or pillow block, and turns away from theblade. A block is clamped to the bench to hold the blade at the same angleevery time. It sharpens to a mirror polish in seconds.The leather is charged with diamond lapping compound if you are using acarbide tipped blade, a standard blade will sharpen well with Woodcraft'shoning compound. I haven't used a bench stone since George talked me intotrying this. from cmj@post11.tele.dk Mon May 11 14:54:41 1998 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA5582 +0200 Subject: Sv: sharpening blades OAA10442 Gets quite frustrating, to the point that I am inclined to go to the"Scarey Sharp" sharpening system. Hi Jerry Go for the "Scary Sharp" system, it really works. regards Carsten from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon May 11 15:02:20 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0500 Subject: Re: Pictures Tom,I looked at your pictures and the binder looks great! What is thesharpening photo? It looks like a particle board disk with some sort ofbuffingcompound. Do you have another great innovation like the binder that willsolvemany of our sharpening woes?Thanks in advance,Harry Boyd TSmithwick wrote: Well here goes nothing. I think I successfully posted the binder photo at :http://members.aol.com/tsmithwickI would appreciate it if one of the people still having trouble wouldcheckthis out and let me know if it works. Thanks to Darryl for suggesting it.. from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon May 11 15:06:43 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0500 Subject: Re: Sharpening Tom,Guess my timing for the post of about 5 minutes ago was just right tolet meput my foot in my mouth, again! I'm beginning to like the taste of shoeleather.Wonder if it would work on the outside of the wheel?Harry Boyd TSmithwick wrote: Over the weekend George Barnes mentioned the diamond paste andleather wheelmethod of sharpening. Both of us have discussed this in the past, but forthenewbies, a photo is listed at:http:// members.aol.com/tsmithwickThe file is named sharpening.jpg. The method involves sawing a 5 3/4"circleout of a 2 X 6, truing it up, and contact cementing a leather strip to theOD.The wheel is then mounted to a motor or pillow block, and turns away from theblade. A block is clamped to the bench to hold the blade at the sameangleevery time. It sharpens to a mirror polish in seconds.The leather is charged with diamond lapping compound if you are using acarbide tipped blade, a standard blade will sharpen well withWoodcraft'shoning compound. I haven't used a bench stone since George talked meintotrying this. from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Mon May 11 15:16:14 1998 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Mon, 11 May 98 16:15:22 EDT Subject: Re: matriarchs of the list Dear Terry, I'm not sure about the brain surgery analogy. Having workedin medical research on brain cancers at a prominent eastern university(butI never wore loafers), I didn't think it was all that complex really. Alltools, scalpels, drills and so on, were used straight out of the box, andwe never had to sharpen or fine tune any. We did have to measure drugdoses carefully, but not mix them, or have to deal with limited set times.All in all, I would have to say, building cane rods is more complex. Therewere times I did become concerned about "sets" emerging followingsurgery,but then I thought maybe I took out too much cortex or whatever. Andanyway if the patient could still breath etc., well that was what wasimportant. And like cane, if you knock a head, it shouldn't sound like adull thud; a well seasoned culm does have a nicer ring, but neither shouldbe dull. --Bob. At 12:01 AM 5/9/98 -0400, you wrote:Guys come and go from this list regularly and like any publication youcan repeat yourself frequently and it is not noticed. What bothers me isthat there is a matriarchal group on this list that tries to makerodbuilding too difficult. They hang around on a permanent basis givingadvice that really is so,so. There are products trying to being soldand reputations trying to be made.Rodmaking is not brain surgery and you do not have to be a selfprofessed master ukulele maker to make a rod first time that willastonish all your fishing pals. The only real way to learn is by yourown mistakes, you cannot hot house experience.Terry Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128 from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon May 11 15:20:03 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.1); Mon,11May 1998 16:21:26 -0400 Subject: Re: sharpening blades In my very limited experience sharpening blades I have found the biggest problem to be a dished stone. Even when I thought it was flat, it was still dished. I finally dropped to 100 grit sand paper and flattened the heck out of it. from then on, sharpening was quick and easy. You can tell if the stone is dished one way that I know of: While polishing, look and see if the edges of the blades are reaching the mirror finish we want. I really like the Veritas Honing Guide but not the angle set attachment. Take care, Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from destinycon@mindspring.com Mon May 11 15:35:57 1998 Subject: Re: Water Dennis,I am currently using an air tight copper pipe for rod parts and an airtight PVC pipe for my planing form. (I also dehumidify) Before puttingparts or form into their respective pipes I'll heat the PIPE with my heatgun. (easy does it on the PVC, I use high temp. PVC) The fact is that HEATDOES NOT REMOVE ANY MOISTURE from AIR. What it does do is expand theair,so you end up with the same grains of moisture per pound of air but yourpound of air takes up a larger volume. The bottom line is you have alessened the weight of the air inside the pipe thus reducing the amount ofmoisture in the pipe. Humidity alone does not tell the whole story. Ifyou do a Wet bulb-Dry bulb reading then use a Psychrometric Chart you candetermine the AMOUNT of moisture in the air- (grains per pound) not justtheHUMIDITY-(percentage of moisture the air can hold at a given temperture).I know this sounds convoluted but it is important to the understanding ofmoisture infiltration.Gary H. PS. I didn't make my self very clear on the air tight pipe. They arescrew-on caps with O-rings and when I heat the caps are off. At 11:33 AM 5/11/98 -0400, you wrote:Hi List, Looks like this weather has just about everyone on edge this weekend. Ilive in "Joisey" and haven't seen the sun for about a week now... I was wondering how everyone keeps their strips of cane relatively dry,short of only building in the winter, while working on an individual strip.I think someone said they were using a 100 watt light bulb/dryingcabinetsetup to keep moisture from re-entering the bamboo during the finalplaningoperations. Has anyone tried using that kind of arrangement in their oven(I'm thinking of the heat gun type of oven here)? I just got my paws onsome stovepipe & end caps, and before I build, I may try to concoct aceramic light socket base for my "oven". Since the humidity is usuallyaround a zillion percent here I "gotta do something"! Any ideas? Dennis Haftel from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Mon May 11 16:46:35 1998 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Mon, 11 May 98 17:45:37 EDT Subject: Re: sharpening blades Jerry, I don't manage to get a really sharp blade each time I sharpen, butmost of the time it works. With 2 water stones (1,000 grit and ~4,000),ittakes a few minutes per blade. A big help for me a a good sharpening jigto hold the blade (I use the Veritas type, but their are others.) Thesecond big hlp was removing the need to reset angles. This meant makingajig that set the blade in the Veritas sharpening unit in the same way eachtime i use it. The jig is pictured on the instruction for Hock blades, andis included on their web site. (Although it does sound from your post thatyou may be using such a jig??) Bottom line is that it should take only afew minute per blade. (BTW, it took me many tries before I got down aconsistent and satisfactory system for myself.) Hope this helps. Bob. At 10:34 AM 5/11/98 -0400, you wrote:Have tried several of the recommendations from the archives, but for methemost frustrating step is trying to get a really sharp plane blade. I DO getit, after about 4-5 hours of sharpening (3-4 blades). Even then, the bladeedge doesn't seem to be "true." Here is what I am doing (based primarily from the Cattanach book). Now, what am I doing WRONG?1. I use a plate glass shelf for the platform.2. True up the stone (both sides) on wet/dry sandpaper prior tosharpening.3. Use a squared jig to place the blade in the holder (it IS square!).4. Begin sharpening on the course side first. Every time I do this, itseems that I have to re establish the blade angle all over again.5. Once the angle is sharp from edge to edge and top to bottom, I go to thefine side.6. When I begin sharpening on the fine side of the stone, and not havingremoved the blade from the holder, it seems that I have to re establishtheangle ALL OVER again, edge to edge, top to bottom.Gets quite frustrating, to the point that I am inclined to go to the"Scarey Sharp" sharpening system.However, I must admit, the blades finally do get sharp. Sorry to interfere with the more "philosophical" debates going on with a"real" question, but I do appreciate any help, flames or no!Jerry Snider. Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128 from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Mon May 11 16:46:36 1998 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Mon, 11 May 98 17:45:38 EDT Subject: Re: sharpening blades Harry, Right, I started with the Veritas angling jig too. It's fine forapproximating an angle, say when initially setting up a blade, but not ok imprecise, or too difficult to get the same angle set repeatedly. Theoutcome is you end up increasing shapening time. I switched to thesimplier jigs described on this list and at the Hock web site. Bob. I'd like to ask a related question. Do any of you use the Lea Valleyangle setting jig? I'm afraid it doesn't get the angle EXACTLY the sameeachtime. Am I doing something wrong?Harry Boyd Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128 from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon May 11 16:50:44 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Water Frank, If you go to an electrical supply shop and buy heavy duty bulbs instead oftheones you buy in the store they will last longer.Bret from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Mon May 11 17:51:00 1998 ; Tue, 12 May 1998 10:50:50 +1200 Subject: Re: Binder for Amateurs John, I used two wheels off an old rotary hoe but i noticed that the localhardware shop had replacement weels ( about $7 nz)for a rotary motormowerwhich would of done just as well. I drilled through the outer frame of thewheel and put a bolt with a wooden knob on the outside for a handle . Itworks just fine . iank At 01:35 PM 11/05/98 -0400, you wrote:Don I am trying to build one of Tom's Binders and haven't had any luckfinding pulleys. Where did you find a hardware store that had the largeones, or the hand wheels you are going to use. An also looking for binderglace cotton binder twine. Any help would be appreciated. John ColeFather John's Custom RodsE-Mail jcole10@juno.com _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email iank@nelson.planet.org.nz from flyfisher@nextdim.com Mon May 11 18:05:46 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id A2F32D800E8; Mon, 11 May 1998 16:00:03 PDT Subject: Re: sharpening blades Hi All, When I started to make bamboo flyrods I was told to get an oilstonethat had coarse on one side and fine on the other and just like my plane ithad to be leveled, so after getting it leveled I to had trouble getting therequired edge that you could shave with, so I then tried some thing otherrod builders said would not get sharp enough edge to do the job but Lo andBehold it works for me maybe not for everybody, so here it is. I use thestandard Stanley plane iron and an EZE-Lap diamond stone. My sharpeningsetup consists of a holder with raised rails to hold the stone the rails arelust high enough for my blade holder to not touch the stone. my bladeholderis 2"x 31/2" butt door hinge held open with a wedge of wood to make a 50degree angle. I use Stanley #91/2 plane with 20 degree angle, I sharpenfirst a 30 degree relief bevel then using my blade holder hone a 50 degreeangle for the cutting-scraping edge. I can sharpen my plane in about 1 to 2minutes and am ready to go at it again. I don't think that a plane blade hasto be sharp enough to shave with if was we should be using razor blades toshape our bamboo. Not having ever used Hock blade I have nothing tocomparewith the amount of planing between sharpening can be done. I know that Ihave almost worn out two plane irons in making 65 rods. Sincerely,Dell Coppock,"IN THE GREAT NORTHWEST"http://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail flyfisher@nextdim.com- ----Original Message----- Subject: Re: sharpening blades In my very limited experience sharpening blades I have found thebiggest problem to be a dished stone. Even when I thought it wasflat, it was still dished. I finally dropped to 100 grit sand paperand flattened the heck out of it. from then on, sharpening was quickand easy. You can tell if the stone is dished one way that I knowof: While polishing, look and see if the edges of the blades arereaching the mirror finish we want. I really like the VeritasHoning Guide but not the angle set attachment. Take care, Jon Lintvet12B College CircleIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277- 9781www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from anglport@con2.com Mon May 11 18:40:31 1998 Subject: Re: milward binder Steve,The main reason I was considering switching to the Milward was thetwists Iwas getting in my sections from running them sequentially through thegarrison contraption. I (I guess prematurely)assumed that if the Milwardputboth wraps on at the same time, without spinning the blank, there wouldbeno possibility of twist. Am I going to have more trouble with the Milwardthan the old standby, or is it reasonably easy to tweak?Art At 12:53 PM 5/11/98 -0700, you wrote: It takes a little tweaking to get the tension right, but its anifty binder, isn't it? It was great fun to build, and very much impressed all of my friends. Ihad a heck of a time getting the twist out of the first tip that I boundwith it. It was so bad I was looking at it and considering a spiral formy second rod! Perseverance won out and another rung was added to theexperience ladder. I am glad you mentioned the two spools on one side being too tight. That is evidently what my problem was. Thank you. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon May 11 18:50:19 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0500 Subject: Final ferrule fitting List, I know I'm always looking for shortcuts and that is an emotionalsubject onthe list right now. My question is this: Have any of you tried using abuffingwheel with tripoli or similar compounds for the final fitting of ferrules.(Makingmale fit to female) It seems to me that if you keep the ferrule moving youshouldnot get any flat spots. The amount you take off is miniscule. Your finishwillcertainly be smooth.I don't want to screw up expensive ferrules just trying this, so I'mlooking for help from those with more experience.Thanks in advance,Harry Boyd from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon May 11 18:52:23 1998 Tue, 12 May 1998 07:52:01 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: sharpening blades On Mon, 11 May 1998, Jerry Snider wrote: Have tried several of the recommendations from the archives, but for methemost frustrating step is trying to get a really sharp plane blade. I DO getit, after about 4-5 hours of sharpening (3-4 blades). Even then, the bladeedge doesn't seem to be "true." Here is what I am doing (based primarily from the Cattanach book). Now, what am I doing WRONG?1. I use a plate glass shelf for the platform.2. True up the stone (both sides) on wet/dry sandpaper prior tosharpening.3. Use a squared jig to place the blade in the holder (it IS square!).4. Begin sharpening on the course side first. Every time I do this, itseems that I have to re establish the blade angle all over again.5. Once the angle is sharp from edge to edge and top to bottom, I go tothefine side.6. When I begin sharpening on the fine side of the stone, and not havingremoved the blade from the holder, it seems that I have to re establishtheangle ALL OVER again, edge to edge, top to bottom.Gets quite frustrating, to the point that I am inclined to go to the"Scarey Sharp" sharpening system. However, I must admit, the blades finally do get sharp. I wonder if some of the people having dif with getting a killer edge on the plane irons need a short sharpen on a grinding wheel to re-establish the propper angle. I don't use a sharpening guide, I just hold the iron at the correct angle but as I sharpen this angle alters and so becomes slightly rounded and this is remidied with the grinding wheel. By using the wheel you wind up with a slightly concave sharpening face whichmeans you need to sharpen less steel so you get the edge faster. This *may* mean you loose the edge faster too but it only takes from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon May 11 18:57:50 1998 Tue, 12 May 1998 07:57:40 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: RE:sharpening blades It might if you're rounding the cutting edge as a result of the stone not being true.Tony Would this still have an affect if I am using an on-the-stone bladeholder?J. Snider. Jerry,Sounds like your stone is flat, but not square. (Just a guess)Don Burns /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon May 11 19:07:30 1998 Tue, 12 May 1998 08:07:14 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Final ferrule fitting On Mon, 11 May 1998, Harry Boyd wrote: List, I know I'm always looking for shortcuts and that is an emotionalsubjectonthe list right now. My question is this: Have any of you tried using abuffingwheel with tripoli or similar compounds for the final fitting of ferrules.(Makingmale fit to female) It seems to me that if you keep the ferrule movingyoushouldnot get any flat spots. The amount you take off is miniscule. Your finishwillcertainly be smooth.I don't want to screw up expensive ferrules just trying this, so I'mlooking for help from those with more experience.Thanks in advance,Harry Boyd That would work. I make my ferrules slightly over sized at the (what will become) tabs section to ease their cutting, glue them on then put the section back in the lathe and use 1000 grit to reduce the tab to the desired thickness and make a nice transition to the rod. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from Fishinstix@aol.com Mon May 11 19:40:41 1998 Subject: Art Shows Hi all;My wife and I attended a local art fest last weekend. As I was wanderingaround looking at all the works of the local artisans and craftsmen, itoccurred to me that this would be a good place to display some rods. Irealize that there would probably not be as many fishermen as at a fishingorsportsman's show, but I can picture all the husbands huddled around thelonerodmakers booth, watching as he created his masterpiece. Standing belowasign that reads "The Lost Art of The Mystical Bamboo Flyrod." (O.K. maybealittle carried away, but you get the point.) Has any of the moreestablishedrodmakers ever attempted or considered marketing their goods on the artshowcircuits? Believe me, I saw a lot of dumber things at that show! Mark Mills from jczimny@dol.net Mon May 11 19:43:26 1998 Subject: Re: Final ferrule fitting If you're really trying to take off metal in order to fit, then I wouldn't doit. It'simpossible to get it accurate. I often use a tool poste grinder fitted with averyfine diamond cratex wheel. This will do the job precisely. Hand fitting isthesafestway.J. Zimny Harry Boyd wrote: List, I know I'm always looking for shortcuts and that is an emotionalsubjectonthe list right now. My question is this: Have any of you tried using abuffingwheel with tripoli or similar compounds for the final fitting of ferrules.(Makingmale fit to female) It seems to me that if you keep the ferrule movingyoushouldnot get any flat spots. The amount you take off is miniscule. Your finishwillcertainly be smooth.I don't want to screw up expensive ferrules just trying this, so I'mlooking for help from those with more experience.Thanks in advance,Harry Boyd from channer@hubwest.com Mon May 11 19:56:44 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AE8F23B0122; Mon, 11 May 1998 18:57:51 MDT Subject: 8'6" 4wt. Hi guys;I need to make an 8"6" 4wt. for a friend and I was wondering if it wouldwork better to stretch an 8" rod out to 8'6" or to take an8'6" 5 or 6 wt.and narrow the taper to 4wt. Have many tapers for either, but not for theone I need. Also, if anyone has any ideas about a good fast action taper touse for this, I would appreciate it. Thanks alot John Channer from thramer@presys.com Mon May 11 20:10:06 1998 0000 Subject: Re: 8'6" 4wt. john channer wrote: Hi guys;I need to make an 8"6" 4wt. for a friend and I was wondering if it wouldwork better to stretch an 8" rod out to 8'6" or to take an8'6" 5 or 6 wt.and narrow the taper to 4wt. Have many tapers for either, but not for theone I need. Also, if anyone has any ideas about a good fast action taper touse for this, I would appreciate it. Thanks alot John ChannerUse the 8 1/2 ' Granger taper. It was made for about a 5wt but the tipsare certainly delicate enough for a 4 wt.A.J.Thramer from lblan@provide.net Mon May 11 20:13:41 1998 Subject: RE: sharpening blades Jerry; I'd bet a dished stone. My experience was very similar to yours.WhenI bought my first diamond stone, the problem was obvious after just 3 or 4strokes. Now I can go from a fine diamond stone to a 6000 in just a coupleof minutes. BTW.... I *thought* I was being anal about the stonesflatness.... didn't work. The diamond stone trues the fine stone far betterthan sandpaper on a piece of 3/8" float glass. Take AJ's advice, buy adiamond stone. I wish I had discovered them a few waterstones ago. Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, May 11, 1998 10:35 AM Subject: sharpening blades Have tried several of the recommendations from the archives, but most frustrating step is trying to get a really sharp planeblade. I DO getit, after about 4-5 hours of sharpening (3-4 blades). Even then, the bladeedge doesn't seem to be "true." Here is what I am doing (based primarily from the Cattanach book). Now, what am I doing WRONG? from rmoon@ida.net Mon May 11 20:21:14 1998 Subject: Re: Final ferrule fitting HarryYes I use this method. I use jeweler's rouge. A few precaautions. Thewheel has a tendency of pulling the rod shaft out of your hands if youuse too much pressure. Also the fit is very critical. A slecond or twotoo much buffing and you can overdo it. I think that it is far betterto use this technique than to use abrasives to fit. Strips of sandpaperjust do not give me any control Ralph from rmoon@ida.net Mon May 11 20:24:09 1998 Subject: Re: Art Shows Mark Been there done that. It was a fly fishing art show, however, andit seemed to fit.Ralph from cbogart@shentel.net Mon May 11 20:24:24 1998 May 199821:24:10 -0400 Subject: Re: 8'6" 4wt. JohnYou are at the point of no return - a good fast 8'6" 4 wt maybe like trying to make gold from lead - lots-o-luck. You may have to redefine some laws of nature to get that - or perform some slight of hand. Chris On Mon, 11 May 1998 18:55:11, john channer wrote: Hi guys;I need to make an 8"6" 4wt. for a friend and I was wondering if it wouldwork better to stretch an 8" rod out to 8'6" or to take an8'6" 5 or 6 wt.and narrow the taper to 4wt. Have many tapers for either, but not for theone I need. Also, if anyone has any ideas about a good fast action taper touse for this, I would appreciate it. Thanks alot John Channer from hokkaido_flyfisher@yahoo.com Mon May 11 21:07:52 1998 Subject: updated web page ... Dear Rodmakers, It ain't much, I know ... but I have updatedmy webpage to show Hoshihara- sensei (my uglymug is hidden by the work-cap) teaching methe basics ... so far this is day 1 and day 2rod making ... more later ;-) http://members.tripod.com/~Nijimasu/Cane_Apprentice.html Cheers, Christian==Mr. Christian THALACKERc/o Asaina Michiko-san Otaru University of CommerceMatsugae 2-6-30 Otaru International Center047-0022 Hokkaido JAPAN Midori 3-5-21 Otaru047 Hokkaido JAPAN Email: Hokkaido_Flyfisher@yahoo.comHompepage: http://members.tripod.com/~Nijimasu/O.html_________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from MasjC1@aol.com Mon May 11 21:38:33 1998 Subject: Re: sharpening blades It sounds like the stone is not flat. This weekend I had to flatten my stoneand it took a long while to get the dish out using 220 grid wet/dry paperinthe wet mode. Does the blade sharpen the same way each time? Does thecenteror edges sharpen first? Is it consistent each time you sharpen? Can youdetecta pattern that may indicate a dish in the stone? If it varies each time yousharpen then I would suspect the jig or alignment is not consistent. Mark Cole from cbogart@shentel.net Mon May 11 21:54:46 1998 WAA23782;Mon, 11 May 1998 22:54:40 -0400 Subject: Re: sharpening blades JerryLet me put one myth aside - you don't need a flat stone. It all dependsupon technique. I look upon a flat stone (let's here from the diamond stonefolks) like a perfect rod - a holy grail. Tom Smithwicks version of GeorgeBarnes power wheel does work . But you can get very good results from your existing waterstone with no $$ outlay. Last year using the same implements you have I demonstrated at Grayling resharpening in about1 minute time. I have refined the technique and have no problems. I alsodo not have ro re-grind my plane blade as some have suggested. I willgive the up dated to demo at the Grayling Sharp-O-Rama. Chris from MasjC1@aol.com Mon May 11 21:58:35 1998 Subject: Rod Straighting I'm getting close, only two tips left to plane, and I'm wondering aboutstraighting the rod after glueing. In the Sept/Oct '97 Planing Form CarlO'Connor shows a method of straighting a rod by placing it in the planingformand putting a flat steel bar on top. My question is this. How do you preventthe blank from gluing itself to the form, especially with epoxy glues? Icouldsee you ending up with the worlds heavyest rod. Mark Cole from channer@hubwest.com Mon May 11 23:29:23 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A04468F00D8; Mon, 11 May 1998 22:29:56 MDT Subject: Re: Rod Straighting At 10:56 PM 5/11/98 EDT, you wrote:I'm getting close, only two tips left to plane, and I'm wondering aboutstraighting the rod after glueing. In the Sept/Oct '97 Planing Form CarlO'Connor shows a method of straighting a rod by placing it in the planingformand putting a flat steel bar on top. My question is this. How do youpreventthe blank from gluing itself to the form, especially with epoxy glues? Icouldsee you ending up with the worlds heavyest rod. Mark Cole Mark;I tried this with Urac, just clean as much glue as you can off first. TheUrac set up too fast for it to get completely straight, but it did help. Iam going to try this method using Epon now that it is warm enough. I don'tthink glueing the rod to the form will be a problem if I get the excessglue off first, I have been able to get the Epon off using white vinegar.Otherwise, try the various methods in the books,experiment, and count ondoing at least some of the straightening with heat after the gluedries.Good luck!(do be carefull with the heat gun on the tips, they areeasy to scorch)John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Mon May 11 23:37:36 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A2551D30140; Mon, 11 May 1998 22:38:45 MDT Subject: Re: 8'6" 4wt. At 09:25 PM 5/11/98 -0400, you wrote:JohnYou are at the point of no return - a good fast 8'6" 4 wt maybe like trying to make gold from lead - lots-o-luck. You may have to redefine some laws of nature to get that - or perform some slight of hand. Chris Chris;After I made that entry I was looking thru some old catalogues, and IguessI should have asked for a med/fast taper. I don't want to defy any laws ofnature or end up with a pool cue.A.J;Thanks for the advise, I have heard nothing but good about Granger rods,and I would like to cast one anyway. I have a Phillipson 9' 5 wt., do yousuppose the actions are similar? Is the taper you are talking about the onein the archives, or the one in the last Planing Form? John Channer from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon May 11 23:48:13 1998 Subject: Grand River Bamboo Rod Builders Gathering, May 23-24, Fergus,Ont. The second "Grand Gathering" is shaping up well. We have over 60 peoplepre- registered, which is near what we can accommodate, although we canalways take a few more. The program features specific topics of interest to the experienced rodbuilder by well known rod makers such as John Long, John Zimny, GeorgeCarcao, Ron Barch, Harold Demarest, and others. Parallel and concurrentwith these are a sequence of "how to" workshops for the beginning rodbuilder. The conservation authority has promised to stock fresh trout inour casting pond, and for those who want to fish the Grand River for bigBrowns, we have local guides doing short seminars on what's hatching. Some of the locals attending the "Gathering" can probably be persuaded toshow you their favourite spots. Your Planning Team: Ted Knott, George Carcao, Carl O'Connor, RoyDeGiusti,Ray Blades, James Bond, Derek Strub, Gary Allen from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Mon May 11 23:49:22 1998 mtigwc05.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA29299 +0000 Subject: Re: J.C. Zimny's comments on "Final ferrule fitting" What is a "cratex" wheel? George Bourke----------From: J. C. Zimny Subject: Re: Final ferrule fittingDate: Monday, May 11, 1998 5:28 PM If you're really trying to take off metal in order to fit, then Iwouldn't do it. It'simpossible to get it accurate. I often use a tool poste grinder fittedwith a veryfine diamond cratex wheel. This will do the job precisely. Hand fittingis the safestway.J. Zimny from tbeckfam@pacbell.net Tue May 12 00:39:24 1998 mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id WAA05068 for Subject: Re: sharpening blades Chris Bogart wrote: JerryLet me put one myth aside - you don't need a flat stone. It alldependsupon technique. I look upon a flat stone (let's here from the diamondstonefolks) like a perfect rod - a holy grail. Tom Smithwicks version ofGeorgeBarnes power wheel does work . But you can get very good results fromyour existing waterstone with no $$ outlay. Last year using the sameimplements you have I demonstrated at Grayling resharpening in about1 minute time. I have refined the technique and have no problems. I alsodo not have ro re-grind my plane blade as some have suggested. I willgive the up dated to demo at the Grayling Sharp-O-Rama. ChrisChris,Can you post the instructions for your magic sharpening technique? Iwill not be attending the Sharp-o-Rama but would appreciate your input.ThanksTraver Becker from channer@hubwest.com Tue May 12 02:17:00 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A7AF67F00F0; Tue, 12 May 1998 01:18:07 MDT Subject: Re: sharpening blades At 03:25 PM 5/11/98 -0400, you wrote:Following Catannach every step of the way, including blade holder, on thestone sharpening, same wetstone, etc. I, too, thought that the stone mightbe "dished," and perhaps will be a bit more anal about it when I sharpenagain tonight. After aligning the blade in the holder, I even use amachinists square to be certain that the blade is absolutely square in theholder. I don't BELIEVE that the blade is slipping in the holder, butperhaps? Nor is the angle adjustment creeping, as far as I can discern.As far as the plate glass is concerned, it is a very thick plate glass used absolutely flat.It has to be something simple I am not keying in on, but DARN it takesforever to get a blade sharp. Thanks for the input. Jerry;I was having the same sort of problem with my on the stone type holder. Ifound that after I sharpened on the 1000 side, that if I pulled the bladeback in the holder slightly(about 1/16, I made a mark on the guage with autility knife)then continued on the 6000 side, I got a much sharper blade.I suppose this is a microbevel of some sort, all I know is that it works butt section before doing the tips. Let me re-phrase that, I have twoblades and sharpen for each section, once for rough-in and once for finalplaning.I almost always get one stage per section per blade.The thing thathas helped me the most in keeping the blades going is to not let the bladetouch the form. I use metallic tape to make a slot , but only because I amtoo cheap to find a machinist to groove the bottom of my plane for me.Besides, there are as many machinists in Durango as there are 9 1/2's forsale (I had to mail order mine). When I run out of tape I will probablyslot my own plane with sandpaper. Hope you get your problem solved, lifeistoo short to spend it sharpening. John Channer from Fallcreek9@aol.com Tue May 12 04:14:37 1998 Subject: Re: sharpening blades In a message dated 98-05-11 15:20:36 EDT, you write: Harry: The trick is to hold it up to a light while snugging the blade againstthe angle surface. When absolutely no light gets thru, the angle is exact.However, I use the squeeze type blade holder rather than the Veritaswhich maymake it easier to do. Just enough squeeze to hold the blade in place whilebeing easy enough to slide in the holder while adjusting.Regards,Richard from gwbarnes@gwi.net Tue May 12 06:54:33 1998 Subject: Re: sharpening blades Larry Blan wrote: Take AJ's advice, buy a diamond stone. I wish I had discovered them afewwaterstones ago. Larry Blan I'd go one step further if I wanted true and permanent "flatness".Expensive,but the diamond impregnated steel plates are the "cat's meow". I'd stillfinish up with diammond paste on a leather wheel or belt though,especiallywith carbide tips. Have just finished rough planing nine strips and finishplaning eight of them with carbide and the planes are still singing theirlittle sharpness tune. George Barnes from sniderja@email.uc.edu Tue May 12 07:47:05 1998 08:44:53 -0400 Subject: Re: sharpening blades Would LOVE to attend your Sharp-O-Rama at Grayling. Unfortunately(?) Iwillbe in Alaska at that time for three weeks fishing on the Arctic Graylingresearch project along the north slope.J. SniderAt 10:56 PM 5/11/98 -0400, you wrote:JerryLet me put one myth aside - you don't need a flat stone. It all dependsupon technique. I look upon a flat stone (let's here from the diamond stonefolks) like a perfect rod - a holy grail. Tom Smithwicks version of GeorgeBarnes power wheel does work . But you can get very good results from your existing waterstone with no $$ outlay. Last year using the same implements you have I demonstrated at Grayling resharpening in about1 minute time. I have refined the technique and have no problems. I alsodo not have ro re-grind my plane blade as some have suggested. I willgive the up dated to demo at the Grayling Sharp-O-Rama. Chris from wellive@ibm.net Tue May 12 07:47:59 1998 byout1.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA88490 for; Tue, 12 May 1998 12:47:56 GMT Subject: Re: FW: bamboo milling machine The outermost fibers are probably the ones needing the *most* glue due totheirpart in rod performance. Hence the engineer thinks the rodmaker shouldbevelsuchthat the core is tight and the edges are open and well bonded. Nosuggestionshowever as to how to make it look good. :-) Barry H. Welliver john collins wrote: making the joint as tight as possible may become self defeating. Mostgluejoints needs some amount of space or the joint will fail due tostarvation.Historically glue joints were roughened prior to gluing. Modern theoryisthat this actually provides enough space for the initial glue up and is notthere to provide tooth for the surfaces. I know from personal experiencethat the best way to make an epoxy joint to fail is to make it too tight.Take that into consideration before making judgements. At 11:16 AM 5/11/98 -0600, you wrote: -----Original Message-----From: William_Lamberson@muccmail.missouri.edu Date: Monday, May 11, 1998 8:55 AMSubject: Re[2]: FW: bamboo milling machine Calculation of the cross-sectional area of bamboo in rods planed at61.5 degrees versus those planed at 60 degrees indicate that about3%of the bamboo is replaced by glue in the former. It appears that thepercentage is independent of the width of the hexagon. Is that somuch that we should be concerned? Bill Lamberson 3% of the cross-sectional area would not seem to be much, but it is theeffect that could make a difference. Replace 3% of the gas in your gastankwith water and see what happens. Replace 3% of the oxygen in yourbreathingair with chlorine and see what happens. Anyway, there are so many variables that affect the final outcome, thatMYpreference, as someone who is not concerned with this HOBBY as animportantsource of income is to reduce the potential negative effects that areundermy control. Concealing the glue joint doesn't make me a better craftsman. Makingtheglue joint as small as possible through careful planing is my goal.Whatever makes one happy. Steve Weiss from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue May 12 07:55:53 1998 Subject: Re: Final ferrule fitting At 18:49 11/05/98 -0500, you wrote:List, I know I'm always looking for shortcuts and that is an emotionalsubject onthe list right now. My question is this: Have any of you tried using abuffingwheel with tripoli or similar compounds for the final fitting of ferrules.(Makingmale fit to female) It seems to me that if you keep the ferrule movingyoushouldnot get any flat spots. The amount you take off is miniscule. Yourfinish willcertainly be smooth.I don't want to screw up expensive ferrules just trying this, so I'mlooking for help from those with more experience.Thanks in advance,Harry Boyd Harry, I do it too. A couple of things. 1] Make sure that you have enough movement around your grinder/bufferthatyou can manipulate the angle of the ferrule approach. Sometimes ferrulesare provided that are much larger near the cane end than the tip requiringan off-set of the ferrule approach to the buffer. 2] When the fit just barely starts - leave the ferrule alone for about 2hours for the male to temperature stabilize to the female. If you don't,the male will be too small as it shrinks from the heat of the buffer. And another thing - heat of compression will cause the female ferrule toenlarge if many fits are tried in succession. The heat shrinkage thing willapply here too. What you will notice right off is the incredible amount of file marks onthe males when you polish. These will mostly disappear. The ferrulesprepared this way should last longer as the ridges from the sanding/filingprocess are removed allowing even wear of all the male slide rather thanjust the ridges. Don from sniderja@email.uc.edu Tue May 12 08:02:53 1998 Subject: Thanks for the advise Thanks to all who responded with ideas & suggestions re blade sharpening.To clarify, I have used both the Veritas on the stone blade holder and theGeneral off the stone holder. Last night I sharpened two of the blades (oneHock, one Stanley) rather quickly (not minutes, but not hours either). Whenbeginning to sharpen the other Hock and Stanley, I noticed (using a trysquare) that the blades edges was not straight (level). I placed a 200 gritwet/dry sandpaper on top of the stone to quickly true up the edges. Goingthen to the stone, it took a bit of time to re-establish the bevel, thenthings worked fine. However, I like what I hear re the diamond stone (ordiamond plate) and also the George Barnes method. Chris Bogart and TomSmithwick, as usual, cut to the quick of things, i.e. Keep it simple! HopeChris shares his technique on line with those of us who can't get toGrayling. All other comments and suggestions are, believe me, being keptinmind for future problems! Thanks all.J. Snider. from 3i2i7n3@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu Tue May 12 08:03:52 1998 CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU(IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP; Tue, 12 May 98 09:03:14 EDT Subject: sharpening Jerry, I, too, had trouble getting a reliably sharp edge, and still someedges last much longer than others. Other list members have mentionedsomelikely problems, so I'll go straight to the hair-brained, truly analretentive, seemingly impossible explanations: Flatness seems to be one thing: parallelism of both sides seems tobe another. If both sides aren't parallel, you will constantly besharpening one side of the blade on a "high" (left or right) edge of thestone and working it across the width of the blade to the other side. Doesthis sound familiar, or does your sharpening polish in the center first andwork out to the sides? If the latter, you might investigate whether thestone isn't dished after all. Perhaps try some other tool than the one youhave been using to check this. If the former: Look at the end of the stone, perhaps measure itsthickness along both long edges, to determine if the two srufaces reallyareparallel and parallel with the surface on which you place the stone. Thereare also some ways to "read" what's happening when you sharpen. Mark oneend of the stone to make sure you have it oriented consistently, then look theblade as you sharpen. WIth the stone positioned in the same way eachtime,does one side of the blade consistently get sharpened (polished) first?Flip the stone end for end. Does the other side get sharpened first? Ifyes, this would seem to indicate that the stones two surfaces are notparallel. If so, there may not be much you can do about it. Buying a newstone may be cheap "therapy". One thing you can do is to flip itend-for-end after the rough step and before the polishing step rather thanrotating it along its long axis. This will at least keep the slantedsurface slanting in the same direction. But to do this you have to knowwhich way it slants, so mark one end and keep track of which end youbeganwith. (It is also probably a good idea to work both ends of the stonealternately in order to keep it from losing its parallelism along thelength, but that's another anal retentive night mare.) This is not idealbecause the blade tends to become not square with the sides. Some of thiscan be conpensated with the lateral adjustment in the plane to keep thethroat opening consistent across the cutting width. I use the General sharpening guide, which obviously isn't aprecision tool. Have a close look at that. WIth the blade clamped in andresting on the surface of the stone, does the axis of the axel wobble upanddown? Does one wheel take all the weight when you move it back andforth?I suspect this could be due to faulty parallelism in the stone, but it couldalso be faulty squareness in the holder itself. If it does wobble, but ifthe blade also wobbles on the surface of the stone then I would thinkaboutparallelism. If the balde doesn't wobble up and down on the stone but thewheels do, then it is probably either faulty axel, different diameterwheels, twisted frame, etc. Please don't ask me how any of these thingscould happen. In the end, you may simply need better tools and a newstone(though see last paragraph below). As others have suggested, make sure, damn sure, the surface yousharpen on is flat. You might try buying another piece of thick (1/4" ormore) glass. Also make sure the surface under the glass is more thanreasonably flat. 3/4" particle board or chip board is usually pretty good. I suspect that lack of parallelism might be due to flattening usingonly a back-and-forth mothin that puts more pressure along one edge ofthestone than the other. Try a figure eight motion and keep the stone close tothe near edge fo the workbench so you don't have to reach to push on thestone. If you start to despair, consider for a moment how much experiencewith this same problem went into these rantings, and then decide whetherI've lost my mind. On the other hand, I now have sharp and long-lastingblades, though I suspect others can get them with less thought and work. I could end by connecting this to the more philosophical debateabout quality of tools by saying that without straight, flat, square toolsrodbuilding becomes a dangerous game with one's sanity, but I won't. Good luck, Mark.Mark M. FreedDepartment of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan University from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Tue May 12 08:19:58 1998 0400 Subject: Re[2]: sharpening blades John, what is the brand and dimensions of the tape you use? I havehesitated getting my plane grooved and am considering this approach. Also, do youuse a guide of some sort (I have one for sharpening blades but not one forplaning. Thanks, Andy______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: sharpening blades Author: at Tcpgate At 03:25 PM 5/11/98 -0400, you wrote:Following Catannach every step of the way, including blade holder, on thestone sharpening, same wetstone, etc. I, too, thought that the stone mightbe "dished," and perhaps will be a bit more anal about it when I sharpenagain tonight. After aligning the blade in the holder, I even use amachinists square to be certain that the blade is absolutely square in theholder. I don't BELIEVE that the blade is slipping in the holder, butperhaps? Nor is the angle adjustment creeping, as far as I can discern.As far as the plate glass is concerned, it is a very thick plate glass used absolutely flat.It has to be something simple I am not keying in on, but DARN it takesforever to get a blade sharp. Thanks for the input. Jerry;I was having the same sort of problem with my on the stone type holder. Ifound that after I sharpened on the 1000 side, that if I pulled the bladeback in the holder slightly(about 1/16, I made a mark on the guage with autility knife)then continued on the 6000 side, I got a much sharper blade.I suppose this is a microbevel of some sort, all I know is that it works butt section before doing the tips. Let me re-phrase that, I have twoblades and sharpen for each section, once for rough-in and once for finalplaning.I almost always get one stage per section per blade.The thing thathas helped me the most in keeping the blades going is to not let the bladetouch the form. I use metallic tape to make a slot , but only because I amtoo cheap to find a machinist to groove the bottom of my plane for me.Besides, there are as many machinists in Durango as there are 9 1/2's forsale (I had to mail order mine). When I run out of tape I will probablyslot my own plane with sandpaper. Hope you get your problem solved, lifeistoo short to spend it sharpening. John Channer from dhaftel@att.com Tue May 12 08:31:34 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) (5.5.1960.3) Subject: Water water everywhere... Hi all, Thanks to everyone for the replies to my question of how to keep "dry"whileplaning. I'm still not sure how I'm going to proceed, but at least now Ihave a few good ideas to work with. Thanks again... Dennis Haftel from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Tue May 12 08:38:27 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id IAA22666 for (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id IAA06391 for ; Tue, 12 May1998 Subject: Re: Binder for Amateurs A place called "American Science and Surplus" has perfect pulleys are 6.25" diameter, made of pressed steel (flat) with a welded-onhub or arbor or whatever its called with a 5/8" bore, about 1" deep.I've got 4 on my Milward-style binder, 2 for the binder head and 2more for the other pulleys. Jerry Foster's Rodmakers web page has a link to them. They have a retail outlet just down the road from me, so if you can't track them down I could probably get a pair and send them to you.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Mon, 11 May 1998, JOHN E COLE wrote: Don I am trying to build one of Tom's Binders and haven't had any luckfinding pulleys. Where did you find a hardware store that had the largeones, or the hand wheels you are going to use. An also looking for binderglace cotton binder twine. Any help would be appreciated. John ColeFather John's Custom RodsE-Mail jcole10@juno.com _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue May 12 08:55:03 1998 Subject: Re: Simplicity Bill,Amen. Hope we'll see you at Chris Bogart's the 16th.Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue May 12 08:55:09 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Simple Building GeorgeWell said. I'm still learning how to sharpen after 20 years or so. I stillsharpen at least once a strip and find that if I set the form shallower thanfinal I save my edge but I mic a lot. Not having any fancy waterstones,diamond paste or leather belts on drive wheels I use time instead ofgadgets.I think its time I tried some more gadgets (Terry A. notwithstanding :-)Regards,Hank. from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Tue May 12 09:01:09 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.1); Tue,12May 1998 10:03:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Rod Straighting I use Epon and this is my method (along with a lot of other people). Glue it up. Use a flat long table to roll out the blank like Wayne C. talks about in his book. Then pin the tip of the rod to the wall and let it hang. At this point it will be very apparent if there are twists. If you put your thumb on the bottom and look up at the tip, it should be laying flat on the wall. If not, twist and check again. I keep checking the sections (anally) for the next 18 or so hours.So far it has worked for me, Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from dhaftel@att.com Tue May 12 09:31:23 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) (5.5.1960.3) Subject: RE: Rod Straighting Hey Jon, How long does that stuff stay "workable"? I just ordered a quart of it, soI guess I'll find out. I was just wondering how long I'm going to have tobind the whole mess once I slop it on... Thanx, Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Jon Lintvet [SMTP:jlintvet@clarityconnect.com]Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 1998 6:01 AM Subject: Re: Rod Straighting I use Epon and this is my method (along with a lot of other people). Glue it up. Use a flat long table to roll out the blank like Wayne C. talks about in his book. Then pin the tip of the rod to the wall and let it hang. At this point it will be very apparent if there are twists. If you put your thumb on the bottom and look up at the tip, it should be laying flat on the wall. If not, twist and check again. I keep checking the sections (anally) for the next 18 or so hours.So far it has worked for me, Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from jczimny@dol.net Tue May 12 09:54:24 1998 Subject: Re: J.C. Zimny's comments on "Final ferrule fitting" Cratex is a brand name. It is a rubber wheel that mounts on some type ofgrinder for grinding or polishing operations. There are hundreds of sizesandgrits. They are often used by tool makers or dental technicians for bothdimensioning or polishing.J. Zimny irish-george@worldnet.att.net wrote: What is a "cratex" wheel? George Bourke----------From: J. C. Zimny Subject: Re: Final ferrule fittingDate: Monday, May 11, 1998 5:28 PM If you're really trying to take off metal in order to fit, then Iwouldn't do it. It'simpossible to get it accurate. I often use a tool poste grinder fittedwith a veryfine diamond cratex wheel. This will do the job precisely. Hand fittingis the safestway.J. Zimny from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Tue May 12 10:16:04 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0500 Subject: Re: Final ferrule fitting To all who replied, especially Ralph, John, and Don:Thanks for the information! I've noticed that when I buff the male end to anice polish, then insert into the female and remove, the male ferrulecomesout awfully scratched. I know better than to try to polish inside thefemale. Is this just something I have to live with? Or is it that thefemales could stand to be produced with a higher standard of internalfinish, or what?I have only limited experience looking at ferrules on other rods. Doall male ferrules show scratches after removing?Thanks again,Harry Yes I use this method. I use jeweler's rouge. A few precaautions. Thewheel has a tendency of pulling the rod shaft out of your hands if youuse too much pressure. Also the fit is very critical. A slecond or twotoo much buffing and you can overdo it. I think that it is far betterto use this technique than to use abrasives to fit. Strips of sandpaperjust do not give me any control Ralph from saweiss@flash.net Tue May 12 10:20:05 1998 Subject: Re: sharpening blades George,Where can one get the carbide strips?Steve Weiss from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue May 12 10:46:18 1998 Subject: Re: Re[2]: FW: bamboo milling machine Bill,It may be less than 3% as the splines may compress a bit. I don't believethe % loss of cane will make that much difference-others may not agree.Regards,Hank. from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Tue May 12 15:18:04 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0500 Subject: Test: Do not read This is a test to see if I'm getting through. No mail in quite some time. from RVenneri@aol.com Tue May 12 15:32:16 1998 Subject: Re: Test: Do not read Harry Your Getting Thru. By the way did you ever get to copy the articule on hexwinding checks and are you still interested in some reel seats. Let meknowThanksBob V Venneri's Custom Components21 Chuck Hill RoadSaugerties N Y 12477914 246 5882 from SalarFly@aol.com Tue May 12 18:07:37 1998 Subject: Modulus of Elasticity of Bamboo? Anybody know it? I've been searching through all my books, and Ican't find it. Darryl Hayashida from LECLAIR123@aol.com Tue May 12 18:23:25 1998 Subject: Re: Final ferrule fitting Harry,I wouldn't use a buffer.As a Gunsmith for the past 30years,I havedone alot of buffing in the custom finishing part of it.Using a muslin wheel withpolish will give you ripples in the metal finish.They may be very slight, but theywillbe there. Stick to the stones or fine files. You will have better luck. Dave L. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Tue May 12 18:23:59 1998 Subject: Re: Final ferrule fitting Tony,What you are talking about and what Harry is talking about are twodifferent things.He is talking about the fitting of the male to female,not were theferrule meets the rod.What you're doing is fine, but harry is talking about usingabuffer to take the male down to fit the female.Not a good idea.If he wants tomount the section in the lathe and take it down with 1000 grit wet/dry sandpaper,thats fine. But not a buffer. Dave L. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Tue May 12 18:26:56 1998 Subject: Re: J.C. Zimny's comments on "Final ferrule fitting" George,A cratex wheel is rubber impregnated with an abrasive. Dave L. from gwbarnes@gwi.net Tue May 12 18:50:53 1998 Subject: Re: sharpening blades Dr. Steven A. Weiss wrote: George,Where can one get the carbide strips?Steve Weiss J & L Industrial Supply has a good selection.Their catalog may be available from J & L Industrial Supply, ATTN:Catalog Department, P.O. Box 3359, Livonia, MI 48151-9918.Not sure if they need a company name or not. Mine comes a corporationand I've been getting it for years. Has become a rather massive catalog. They also have a WEB page at www.industry.net/jlindsupply from LECLAIR123@aol.com Tue May 12 18:50:55 1998 Subject: Re: Water Dennis,I use a product called Golden Rod.It is an electric strip insidea tube. I use this inside my gun safe to keep the temp up and reduce thehumidity inside the safe. I forget who makes it,but it is made for gun safes.Checkwith some sporting goods stores that sell gun safes.It has worked great for me forthe past ten years. Dave LeClair from cbogart@shentel.net Tue May 12 18:55:23 1998 head.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA17439; Tue, 12 May199819:55:00 -0400 Subject: Re: sharpening blades TraverI am working on a series of articles right now and this is one ofthem - complete with pictures. Chris On Mon, 11 May 1998 22:37:16 -0700, Traver Becker wrote: Chris Bogart wrote: JerryLet me put one myth aside - you don't need a flat stone. It alldependsupon technique. I look upon a flat stone (let's here from the diamondstonefolks) like a perfect rod - a holy grail. Tom Smithwicks version ofGeorgeBarnes power wheel does work . But you can get very good results fromyour existing waterstone with no $$ outlay. Last year using the sameimplements you have I demonstrated at Grayling resharpening in about1 minute time. I have refined the technique and have no problems. I alsodo not have ro re-grind my plane blade as some have suggested. I willgive the up dated to demo at the Grayling Sharp-O-Rama. ChrisChris,Can you post the instructions for your magic sharpening technique? Iwill not be attending the Sharp-o-Rama but would appreciate your input.ThanksTraver Becker from gwbarnes@gwi.net Tue May 12 19:05:17 1998 Subject: Re: Simple Building FISHWOOL wrote: GeorgeWell said. I'm still learning how to sharpen after 20 years or so. Hank: It may be gadgetry but- Charlie Hisey was here from Connecticut today topickupa quad planing form and to visit. Over the past two days I'd rough planedninenodeless strips and finish planed eight of them, all with the same twoplanes,both equipped with carbide tips on the plane irons. I'd saved the last oneforCharlie to see how long a carbide tip will stay sharp. The 9-1/2 Stanleyusedforthe last few passes was still merrily singing along. Really you can countrodsections between sharpenings as opposed to counting strips. A bitdifficult toshape originally as you have to have a"green" stone on your grinder andthenhaveto follow up with a diamond plate or stone. The last thing I do is polishwithdiamond paste on a 1" leather belt on a 1" belt sander. from then on, it'smostlyback to the leather belt and that not too often.George from channer@hubwest.com Tue May 12 19:21:20 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A7B92F50130; Tue, 12 May 1998 18:22:17 MDT Subject: Re: Re[2]: sharpening blades At 10:16 AM 5/12/98 -0400, you wrote: John, what is the brand and dimensions of the tape you use? I havehesitated getting my plane grooved and am considering this approach. Also, do youuse a guide of some sort (I have one for sharpening blades but not one forplaning. Thanks, Andy Andy;I am using up some 3-M heat reflective tape that I used for stove- topcutouts in Corian countertops. I would like to give you the model number,but the inner label on the roll is long since gone. Itis thicker than themetallic repair tape you see in hardware stores, mine is about .003 If youlive in or near a city big enough to have solid surace countertopcontractors, call one and see if they will get you a roll, but I warn youit is not cheap, I got mine for free because it wound up in with my bucketof clamps when I moved. I don't use a guide when I am planing, I have beenusing hand planes and hand held power planes for so long that keeping itlevel is not much of a problem for me. The main thing I have noticed is toget your strips bevelled correctly when you first rough them in, it makesthe final planing that much easier. John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Tue May 12 19:23:46 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A84D60200E2; Tue, 12 May 1998 18:24:45 MDT Subject: Re: Water water everywhere... At 09:31 AM 5/12/98 -0400, you wrote:Hi all, Thanks to everyone for the replies to my question of how to keep "dry"whileplaning. I'm still not sure how I'm going to proceed, but at least now Ihave a few good ideas to work with. Thanks again... Dennis Haftel Dennis;I have thought about your problem all day, the only solution I can come upwith is to move to Colorado, the humidity in my shop is 30% at themoment. John Channer from tbeckfam@pacbell.net Tue May 12 19:30:42 1998 mail-gw5.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id RAA28461 for Subject: Re: sharpening blades Chris Bogart wrote: TraverI am working on a series of articles right now and this is one ofthem - complete with pictures. Chris Chris,Your artical on the Garrison binder was a great help when I builtmine. It worked pefectly the first time out. I am looking forward toyour future articles. I hope you include alot of pictures. My lack ofreading comprehension makes it hard for me to decipher text withoutpictures. ThanksTraver Becker from channer@hubwest.com Tue May 12 19:32:32 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AA5A4980152; Tue, 12 May 1998 18:33:30 MDT Subject: RE: Rod Straighting At 10:27 AM 5/12/98 -0400, you wrote:Hey Jon, How long does that stuff stay "workable"? I just ordered a quart of it, soI guess I'll find out. I was just wondering how long I'm going to have tobind the whole mess once I slop it on... Thanx, Dennis Haftel Dennis;Hours and hours, but will be set up by the time you get home from workthenext day( at 70d) By a big jug of white vinegar and plenty of rags.John Channer from jmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca Tue May 12 19:46:23 1998 12 May 98 20:44:56 -0500 0500 12 May 98 20:44:47 -0500 Subject: Re: sharpening blades George are you sure of that URL for them industry net does not list them intheir search function??? Or am I doing something wrong-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: sharpening blades Dr. Steven A. Weiss wrote: George,Where can one get the carbide strips?Steve Weiss J & L Industrial Supply has a good selection.Their catalog may be available from J & L Industrial Supply, ATTN:Catalog Department, P.O. Box 3359, Livonia, MI 48151-9918.Not sure if they need a company name or not. Mine comes a corporationand I've been getting it for years. Has become a rather massive catalog. They also have a WEB page at www.industry.net/jlindsupply from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue May 12 19:46:34 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Simple Building George,Since I quit farming in '76 I haven't had a grinder nor do I know how toget carbide tips on my blades-I guess i'd better start learning again- that'sone of the joys of this "craft".Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue May 12 19:52:41 1998 Subject: Borden's (Elmer's) carpenter's wood glue To all,I got a little hasty and glued up 2 nodeless strips without heat treating.I've been using Elmer's carpenter's wood glue (professional, I'll have youknow -it says so right on the bottle). What is the temp. point at which theglue breaks down? I could try 200 deg. F. over 24 hrs. but i'd be shooting inthe dark. Maybe I should try it without heat treating :-)Regards,Hank- nodeless and at a loss-Woolman. from skeyser@kear.tds.net Tue May 12 20:22:24 1998 Subject: Cancel my subscription please! Could you please unsubscribe me from your e-mail tree.Thank you ****************************Stephen KeyserP.O. Box 193East Andover, NH 03231(603) 735-5449************************************* from gwbarnes@gwi.net Tue May 12 20:22:33 1998 Subject: Re: sharpening blades John McKinnon wrote: George are you sure of that URL for them industry net does not list themintheir search function??? Or am I doing something wrong- URL came from back page of their last catalog. I've not tried it but will from sats@gte.net Tue May 12 20:42:42 1998 Subject: Re: matriarchs of the list UAA01488 So, what's your point? Harriett Foster The point is Harriet, I thought the list was to encourage newrodmakers, not be a kind of info-mercial on gadgets.Terry Hay, Terry. Gadgets are fun! I like building them, making them work, then finding out that I can do thesamething another, easier way. It's a great life! Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from SalarFly@aol.com Tue May 12 20:57:05 1998 Subject: Re: Borden's (Elmer's) carpenter's wood glue In a message dated 5/12/98 5:57:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time,FISHWOOL@aol.comwrites: To all,I got a little hasty and glued up 2 nodeless strips without heat treating.I've been using Elmer's carpenter's wood glue (professional, I'll have youknow -it says so right on the bottle). What is the temp. point at whichtheglue breaks down? I could try 200 deg. F. over 24 hrs. but i'd be shooting inthe dark. Maybe I should try it without heat treating :- )Regards,Hank-nodeless and at a loss-Woolman. Don't try it without heat treating. I took the advice of someone about3 or 4 years ago and tried making a rod without heat treatment. Itdoesn't work. The blank took and held severe sets for a half an hour.It did straighten after a while, but I can't imagine fishing with a rodlike that. Darryl Hayashida from hexagon@odyssee.net Tue May 12 21:34:04 1998 (205.236.249.76) Subject: Re: FW: bamboo milling machine epoxy and the traditional adhesives that have been used for years for thelamination of cane rods are completely different. The phenol/formaldehydeadhesives require considerable clamping pressure and if the glue line istoothick it will fail. Epoxy on the other hand require a thick glue line. john collins wrote: making the joint as tight as possible may become self defeating. Mostgluejoints needs some amount of space or the joint will fail due tostarvation.Historically glue joints were roughened prior to gluing. Modern theoryisthat this actually provides enough space for the initial glue up and is notthere to provide tooth for the surfaces. I know from personal experiencethat the best way to make an epoxy joint to fail is to make it too tight.Take that into consideration before making judgements. At 11:16 AM 5/11/98 -0600, you wrote: -----Original Message-----From: William_Lamberson@muccmail.missouri.edu Date: Monday, May 11, 1998 8:55 AMSubject: Re[2]: FW: bamboo milling machine Calculation of the cross-sectional area of bamboo in rods planed at61.5 degrees versus those planed at 60 degrees indicate that about3%of the bamboo is replaced by glue in the former. It appears that thepercentage is independent of the width of the hexagon. Is that somuch that we should be concerned? Bill Lamberson 3% of the cross-sectional area would not seem to be much, but it is theeffect that could make a difference. Replace 3% of the gas in your gastankwith water and see what happens. Replace 3% of the oxygen in yourbreathingair with chlorine and see what happens. Anyway, there are so many variables that affect the final outcome, thatMYpreference, as someone who is not concerned with this HOBBY as animportantsource of income is to reduce the potential negative effects that areundermy control. Concealing the glue joint doesn't make me a better craftsman. Makingtheglue joint as small as possible through careful planing is my goal.Whatever makes one happy. Steve Weiss from hexagon@odyssee.net Tue May 12 22:12:15 1998 (205.236.248.147) Subject: Re: sharpening blades I am getting frightened to write bugger all but this is what I do( ratherdiddo)I have a cheap 4in belt sander with a 50 grit belt which I use to give anangleof approx. 25 deg to the blade. I then clamp the blade in one of thesecontraptions with the wheel on using a protractor set at 39 deg. I use 39forroughing and finishing. it takes a little more pushing but the blade lasts alot longer and the possibility of tear out at the nodes is reduced. I us averycheap oil stone that is fairly coarse and requires only a few strokes to getanedge. I like a little tooth to the blade. This micro bevel gradually getswiderand when it takes too long to stone I use the belt sander again. I have 2blockplanes with an adjustable gap and one without. I have used these planesforover 10 years and have yet to replace the blade.Terry Jerry Snider wrote: Have tried several of the recommendations from the archives, but for methemost frustrating step is trying to get a really sharp plane blade. I DO getit, after about 4-5 hours of sharpening (3-4 blades). Even then, the bladeedge doesn't seem to be "true." Here is what I am doing (based primarily from the Cattanach book). Now, what am I doing WRONG?1. I use a plate glass shelf for the platform.2. True up the stone (both sides) on wet/dry sandpaper prior tosharpening.3. Use a squared jig to place the blade in the holder (it IS square!).4. Begin sharpening on the course side first. Every time I do this, itseems that I have to re establish the blade angle all over again.5. Once the angle is sharp from edge to edge and top to bottom, I go tothefine side.6. When I begin sharpening on the fine side of the stone, and not havingremoved the blade from the holder, it seems that I have to re establishtheangle ALL OVER again, edge to edge, top to bottom.Gets quite frustrating, to the point that I am inclined to go to the"Scarey Sharp" sharpening system.However, I must admit, the blades finally do get sharp. Sorry to interfere with the more "philosophical" debates going on with a"real" question, but I do appreciate any help, flames or no!Jerry Snider. from Fallcreek9@aol.com Tue May 12 22:27:49 1998 Subject: Re: Rod Straighting In a message dated 98-05-12 10:34:01 EDT, you write:>Dennis - will butt in here with a comment. Tho working time is veryample,Epon is fairly thick to begin with. And, it seems to thicken a bit morefairly quickly. Just finished glueing together a 3-pc, 2-tip rod and it'sthickness became a bother. Solution was to hold it over the heat gun afewseconds and it loosened up quite nicely. Not sure how much of that you canget away with, though, before it begins an accelerated cure. However, itgotme thru the last tip quite nicely.Regards,Richard Tyree from Nodewrrior@aol.com Tue May 12 22:31:34 1998 Subject: Re: Wilks' reelseat mandrel I tried to phone Steve Wilks re: the pentools reelseat mandrel in therodmakers site and I got the disconnected recording. Anybody knowanother # Rob Hoffhines from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue May 12 22:39:10 1998 Wed, 13 May 1998 11:39:02 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Final ferrule fitting On Tue, 12 May 1998, LECLAIR123 wrote: Tony,What you are talking about and what Harry is talking about are twodifferent things.He is talking about the fitting of the male to female,not weretheferrule meets the rod.What you're doing is fine, but harry is talking aboutusing abuffer to take the male down to fit the female.Not a good idea.If he wants tomount the section in the lathe and take it down with 1000 grit wet/dry sandpaper,thats fine. But not a buffer. Dave L. Dave,I had a private email asking how I mount to ferrules to the rod and answered it just prior to seeing the post you're refering to and replied to it without looking closer, thanks for the smack in the back of the head to remind me ;-) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed May 13 07:50:29 1998 Subject: Re: Modulus of Elasticity of Bamboo? In a message dated 5/12/98 11:10:36 PM, you wrote: Darryl - It's in Garrison/Carmichael in the stress calculation chapter.Garrison claims 12 t0 15 million lbs psi. from dhaftel@att.com Wed May 13 08:03:27 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) (5.5.1960.3) Subject: RE: Water water everywhere... John, Is that an invitation?? Well, ok, if I HAVE to... I'll make the 'sacrifice' for my art... But seriously, I have been considering moving out of Joisey for quite sometime now. Can't stand the crowds, the weather, the taxes the laws (youneeda license for everything here), not to mention what it costs to insure mylittle cash cow... uh, I mean car. CO is very high on my short list! I have also heard the fishing "ain't so bad" out there!! Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: john channer [SMTP:channer@hubwest.com]Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 1998 2:22 PM Subject: Re: Water water everywhere... At 09:31 AM 5/12/98 -0400, you wrote:Hi all, Thanks to everyone for the replies to my question of how to keep "dry"whileplaning. I'm still not sure how I'm going to proceed, but at least now Ihave a few good ideas to work with. Thanks again... Dennis Haftel Dennis;I have thought about your problem all day, the only solution I can come upwith is to move to Colorado, the humidity in my shop is 30% at themoment. John Channer from eestlow@srminc.com Wed May 13 08:24:34 1998 1997)) id86256603.0048F276 ; Wed, 13 May 1998 08:16:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Modulus of Elasticity of Bamboo? Darryl, As you probably know, the modulus of elasticity of a substance is simplythe slope of the stress vs. strain curve. It is experimentally derived bybending or stretching the substance and plotting stress (pounds per squareinch or ounces per square inch) vs. strain (inches per inch, that is,inches elongated per inch of original length). This is the quality we'rereally talking about when we discuss the stiffness of a substance. This all, of course depends on the material being isotropic, or having thesame characteristics in every direction. Bamboo, being a fiberous materialis nonisotropic. Having the power fiber density vary across the crosssection compounds the problem further. Every culm will have a slightlydifferent modulus of elasticity and indeed, strips having varying amountsof power fibers will have varying moduli. Your best bet is to get an average by testing the size strip or glued uprod section under known conditions. The recent thread on 60 deg. vs. 61-1/2deg. planed strips and resultant glue lines is really getting at theaverage modulus of elasticity of the composite rod section. All that being said, I don't know what an average modulus of elasticity ofbamboo might be. Tom Smithwick just mailed the list with 12 to 15millionpsi. That's tough to believe. Perhaps he meant osi (ounces per squareinch), I don't know. Steel is about 29 million psi, aluminum about 10million psi, depending upon grade. Hope this helps. Regards,-Ed Estlow SalarFly on 05/12/98 06:05:45 PM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Modulus of Elasticity of Bamboo? Anybody know it? I've been searching through all my books, and Ican't find it.Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Wed May 13 10:17:56 1998 Subject: Re: Modulus of Elasticity of Bamboo? Thanks Ed and Tom.As usual Ed gives a very thorough explanation. Thankyou very much. Darryl from DBURRILL@TELEHUB.com Wed May 13 12:06:28 1998 Subject: First Rod taper search List,After listening to all of you for 6 months and participating ina limited fashion, I'm finally ready to build my first rod. It actuallytook the threat of being left out on a fishing trip from another listerto get my butt in motion. Anyway, I'm thinking an 8' 6wt will be myfirst attempt. Looking for a good all around taper suited to Westernrivers...versatile but with a little moxy. Any suggestions? Wheremight I find a taper for the rod you suggest? from SalarFly@aol.com Wed May 13 12:43:57 1998 Subject: Rod Straightening One thing I have found that helps in keeping the blank straight during glue up is to leave the masking tape on. If you tape every two or three inches, leave the tape on, binding right over the tape, short kinks and twists are much less of a problem. The tape doesn't allow the splines to slip past each other as they have to do to twist or go crooked. Long sweeps are still a problem, but at least the little kinks and twists don't form as much. They still do if you are heavy handed with your binding machine, and sometimes the glue pushes up under the tape and unsticksit. After the glue has hardened the tape is fairly easy toremove with a cabinet scraper. Darryl Hayashida from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Wed May 13 13:26:24 1998 0400 Subject: Re[4]: sharpening blades Thanks John...Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Re[2]: sharpening blades Author: at Tcpgate At 10:16 AM 5/12/98 -0400, you wrote: John, what is the brand and dimensions of the tape you use? I havehesitated getting my plane grooved and am considering this approach. Also, do youuse a guide of some sort (I have one for sharpening blades but not one forplaning. Thanks, Andy Andy;I am using up some 3-M heat reflective tape that I used for stove- topcutouts in Corian countertops. I would like to give you the model number,but the inner label on the roll is long since gone. Itis thicker than themetallic repair tape you see in hardware stores, mine is about .003 If youlive in or near a city big enough to have solid surace countertopcontractors, call one and see if they will get you a roll, but I warn youit is not cheap, I got mine for free because it wound up in with my bucketof clamps when I moved. I don't use a guide when I am planing, I have beenusing hand planes and hand held power planes for so long that keeping itlevel is not much of a problem for me. The main thing I have noticed is toget your strips bevelled correctly when you first rough them in, it makesthe final planing that much easier. John Channer from anglport@con2.com Wed May 13 14:24:13 1998 Subject: Re: Modulus of Elasticity of Bamboo? At 11:16 AM 5/13/98 EDT, you wrote: Thanks Ed and Tom.As usual Ed gives a very thorough explanation. Thankyou very much. Darryl Darryl,On pg 17 of the original "The Book" they cite that some culms might testashigh as 15 million and others as low as 5 million, and it IS Psi. 'Coursethat may be a misprint but that's what it says. I do seem to remembersomeone somewhere comparing bamboo to steel and using a one- to-threeorone-to-two ratio.Art from eestlow@srminc.com Wed May 13 14:39:23 1998 1997)) id86256603.006B689F ; Wed, 13 May 1998 14:33:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Modulus of Elasticity of Bamboo? Guys, Forgive me, but this kind of stuff jazzes me. If one of you has a glued upsection 6" or a foot long and of constant cross section (makes the matheasier), I'll come up with the equation tonight (I'm at work now, withoutmy reference) so you can clamp the section and hang a weight and we'llseewhat it works out to be. When I doubted psi in favor of osi, I was just envisioning a steel rod vs.a bamboo rod under bending. Just goes to show the dangers of thoughtexperiments (although they worked well for Einstein). Best regards,-Ed Estlow Art Port on 05/13/98 02:39:41 PM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Modulus of Elasticity of Bamboo? At 11:16 AM 5/13/98 EDT, you wrote: Thanks Ed and Tom.As usual Ed gives a very thorough explanation. Thankyou very much. Darryl Darryl,On pg 17 of the original "The Book" they cite that some culms might testashigh as 15 million and others as low as 5 million, and it IS Psi. 'Coursethat may be a misprint but that's what it says. I do seem to remembersomeone somewhere comparing bamboo to steel and using a one- to-threeorone-to-two ratio.Art from Canerods@aol.com Wed May 13 15:12:59 1998 Subject: Re: First Rod taper search In a message dated 98-05-13 13:09:29 EDT, you write: Look at the Heddon Black Beauty taper. Don Burns from thramer@presys.com Wed May 13 15:18:10 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Water water everywhere... Haftel, Dennis Jay wrote: John, Is that an invitation?? Well, ok, if I HAVE to... I'll make the 'sacrifice' for my art... But seriously, I have been considering moving out of Joisey for quitesometime now. Can't stand the crowds, the weather, the taxes the laws (youneeda license for everything here), not to mention what it costs to insure mylittle cash cow... uh, I mean car. CO is very high on my short list! I have also heard the fishing "ain't so bad" out there!! Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: john channer [SMTP:channer@hubwest.com]Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 1998 2:22 PM Subject: Re: Water water everywhere... At 09:31 AM 5/12/98 -0400, you wrote:Hi all, Thanks to everyone for the replies to my question of how to keep "dry"whileplaning. I'm still not sure how I'm going to proceed, but at least now Ihave a few good ideas to work with. Thanks again... Dennis Haftel Dennis;I have thought about your problem all day, the only solution I can comeupwith is to move to Colorado, the humidity in my shop is 30% at themoment. John Channer The inevitable result of taxing the producers of society; they leave andin an effort to keep the benefit level to the consumers, the overtaxedproducers then have to be taxed at an even higher rate as the consumersof societies largess have no reason to leave.A.J.Thramer from thramer@presys.com Wed May 13 15:31:05 1998 Subject: Re: First Rod taper search Canerods wrote: In a message dated 98-05-13 13:09:29 EDT, you write: After listening to all of you for 6 months and participating ina limited fashion, I'm finally ready to build my first rod. It actuallytook the threat of being left out on a fishing trip from another listerto get my butt in motion. Anyway, I'm thinking an 8' 6wt will be myfirst attempt. Looking for a good all around taper suited to Westernrivers...versatile but with a little moxy. Any suggestions? Wheremight I find a taper for the rod you suggest? Look at the Heddon Black Beauty taper. Don BurnsTry a Young Para 15A.J.Thramer from thramer@presys.com Wed May 13 15:49:47 1998 0000 Subject: Thramer 8ft 4wt Dx Taper Here is the requested 8' 4wt Dx taper0 - .0705 - .08610 - .10015 - .11820 - .13425 - .14830 - .16035 - .17440 - .18645 - .19850 - .21255 - .22860 - .24465 - .25870 - .27475 - .28880 - .30485 - .32290 - .32296 - .322 3 3/4 oz ferrule 14/64. This is a two piece rod.A.J.thramer from dpeaston@wzrd.com Wed May 13 16:16:31 1998 mail.wzrd.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA11661; Wed, 13 May 199817:13:37 Subject: Re: First Rod taper search At 04:10 PM 5/13/98 EDT, Canerods wrote:In a message dated 98-05-13 13:09:29 EDT, you write: After listening to all of you for 6 months and participating ina limited fashion, I'm finally ready to build my first rod. It actuallytook the threat of being left out on a fishing trip from another listerto get my butt in motion. Anyway, I'm thinking an 8' 6wt will be myfirst attempt. Looking for a good all around taper suited to Westernrivers...versatile but with a little moxy. Any suggestions? Wheremight I find a taper for the rod you suggest? Look at the Heddon Black Beauty taper. Don Burns See also the Grainger taper (such as; the Aristocrat on the taper archive). Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from wellive@ibm.net Wed May 13 17:49:48 1998 byout2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA91160 for; Wed, 13 May 1998 22:49:36 GMT Subject: Re: Modulus of Elasticity of Bamboo? Douglas Fir is in the 1.3 to 1.8 million psi range. Perhaps bamboo isstiffer,but 10 times sounds like a lot. Barry H. Welliver eestlow@srminc.com wrote: Guys, Forgive me, but this kind of stuff jazzes me. If one of you has a glued upsection 6" or a foot long and of constant cross section (makes the matheasier), I'll come up with the equation tonight (I'm at work now, withoutmy reference) so you can clamp the section and hang a weight and we'llseewhat it works out to be. When I doubted psi in favor of osi, I was just envisioning a steel rod vs.a bamboo rod under bending. Just goes to show the dangers of thoughtexperiments (although they worked well for Einstein). Best regards,-Ed Estlow Art Port on 05/13/98 02:39:41 PM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu cc: (bcc: Ed Estlow/SRM/US)Subject: Re: Modulus of Elasticity of Bamboo? At 11:16 AM 5/13/98 EDT, you wrote: Thanks Ed and Tom.As usual Ed gives a very thorough explanation. Thankyou very much. Darryl Darryl,On pg 17 of the original "The Book" they cite that some culms might testashigh as 15 million and others as low as 5 million, and it IS Psi. 'Coursethat may be a misprint but that's what it says. I do seem to remembersomeone somewhere comparing bamboo to steel and using a one- to-threeorone-to-two ratio.Art from stpete@netten.net Wed May 13 18:42:55 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA19540 for Subject: Steel planing forms With all the talk of simplicity, I've a question to pose. I'm just finishing my Steel (CRS) planing forms a'la Thomas Penrose. All I have left to do is complete the filing of the 30/30 bevels on thetip side of the forms. I was suprised to find how easy it was to makeas I had never worked with steel before. It has taken some time however- about 25 to 30 hours, most spent draw filing the inside faces and thetops of the forms. Some local machine shops did give some great advice(I hope) as did the local industrial fastener supply house. 1. use twin point bits.2. use 'TAP IT', a cutting fluid. I could really tell adifference, especially when hand tapping threads.3. use a size 'F' bit instead of the 1/4" bit. It is made for5/16-18 threaded holes (I'm told - it works great)4. use a 4-flute bit to start the hand tapped threads, onceyour started, switch to a 2-flute bit. Use plenty of 'TAP IT'cutting fluid. I had NO trouble tapping all 26 holes in less than2 hours. Now that I have the drill press and the tools, making another form wouldonly cost some $30 plus the time. My question is this. How accuratedoes this form need to be? Should I have reamed the dowel pin holes andthe shoulder bolt holes? Is this really going to make a noticeabledifference in the strip? The holes are not that tight, but once theform is together, they all seem to make the steel bars immovable. Finally, what do you do about the marks and raised steel ridge created completely. What have you guys done? Rick from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Wed May 13 19:17:35 1998 Subject: Re: First Rod taper search At 12:05 13/05/98 -0500, you wrote:List,After listening to all of you for 6 months and participating ina limited fashion, I'm finally ready to build my first rod. It actuallytook the threat of being left out on a fishing trip from another listerto get my butt in motion. Anyway, I'm thinking an 8' 6wt will be myfirst attempt. Looking for a good all around taper suited to Westernrivers...versatile but with a little moxy. Any suggestions? Wheremight I find a taper for the rod you suggest? Dean, I'll vote with AJ - John Zimny convinced me to try a Para 15 this pastwinter - casts good - use it in Alberta - best fish landed on it so far isabout 7>8 lbs. Gave its companion away to a friend who is my destructivetester. If it lasts with him, its a winner. I like it - used it today fornymphing and some dry work. Tad heavy for constant dry fish stuff. Likemy5 wts. better there. Don from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Wed May 13 19:31:46 1998 Subject: Jonathon Clarke Guys, Anyone know how to get a telephone # for him - he doesn't respond toemailand his page will not load. thanx, Don from MasjC1@aol.com Wed May 13 19:40:34 1998 Subject: Bamboo Softening Temperature Does anyone know at what temperature the bamboo softens enough forstraightening and compressing nodes? Thanks. Mark Cole from destinycon@mindspring.com Wed May 13 19:56:48 1998 Subject: Re: Jonathon Clarke Don ,I just loaded his page and these are the numbers he has there.813/821- 9800800/882-5432Gary H. At 06:01 PM 5/13/98, you wrote:Guys, Anyone know how to get a telephone # for him - he doesn't respond toemailand his page will not load. thanx, Don from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed May 13 20:04:24 1998 Thu, 14 May 1998 09:03:54 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: First Rod taper search On Wed, 13 May 1998, A.J.Thramer wrote: Canerods wrote: In a message dated 98-05-13 13:09:29 EDT, you write: After listening to all of you for 6 months and participating ina limited fashion, I'm finally ready to build my first rod. It actuallytook the threat of being left out on a fishing trip from another listerto get my butt in motion. Anyway, I'm thinking an 8' 6wt will be myfirst attempt. Looking for a good all around taper suited to Westernrivers...versatile but with a little moxy. Any suggestions? Wheremight I find a taper for the rod you suggest? Look at the Heddon Black Beauty taper. Don BurnsTry a Young Para 15A.J.Thramer Good choice. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from flyfisher@nextdim.com Wed May 13 21:29:00 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id A5792130142; Wed, 13 May 1998 19:22:49 PDT Subject: Re: First Rod taper search I'll agree that the Para-15 is a good taper, make it with the differenttapers for the tips, it makes it and all around rod.Dell Coppock,"IN THE GREAT NORTHWEST"http://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail flyfisher@nextdim.com- ----Original Message----- Subject: Re: First Rod taper search On Wed, 13 May 1998, A.J.Thramer wrote: Canerods wrote: In a message dated 98-05-13 13:09:29 EDT, you write: After listening to all of you for 6 months and participating ina limited fashion, I'm finally ready to build my first rod. Itactuallytook the threat of being left out on a fishing trip from anotherlisterto get my butt in motion. Anyway, I'm thinking an 8' 6wt will be myfirst attempt. Looking for a good all around taper suited to Westernrivers...versatile but with a little moxy. Any suggestions? Wheremight I find a taper for the rod you suggest? Look at the Heddon Black Beauty taper. Don BurnsTry a Young Para 15A.J.Thramer Good choice. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Thu May 14 05:43:21 1998 post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id LAA14930 for; Thu, 14 May 1998 11:47:18 +0100 Subject: Redundant ferrules would like to sell, or trade. I have lathe facilities, so I'm not at all worried about the lack ofwaterproofing septum, or having to clean up old stock. I need all sizes, particularly bigger sizes - everything from 12/64ths to30/64ths. Brass or nickel nilver. Super Z, Super Swiss, or Leonard patternwould be fine. I guess there are quite a few big old ferrules lying forgotten in rodmaker'sshops. I can put them to good use. Contact me off list to save bandwidth. John Cooper from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Thu May 14 05:43:50 1998 post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id LAA14958 for; Thu, 14 May 1998 11:47:46 +0100 Subject: Re: Gonzo ferrules Davy, That cape has arrived. It's excellent 'AA' quality. I'll post off to youstraight away. Yup, that was the fly. What does Gonzo mean? John from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu May 14 07:17:46 1998 Subject: Re: Steel planing forms In a message dated 5/13/98 11:43:34 PM, you wrote: The important thing is that the top and bottom surfaces of both bars areflushwith each other when the form is locked up. If you have that, you are OK. If the groove is correctly dimensioned, I doubt that minor burrs willpreventthe form from closing enough for normal tapers. It sounds like you havedone acareful job, and I doubt you will have any problems. Plane a short teststripand see what you get. from stpete@netten.net Thu May 14 07:55:30 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA03021 for Subject: Ferrules What's the latest opinions on ferrules? I seem to recall the latestdiscussions trending toward Super Swiss. What do you all prefer? Super Swiss or Super Z or other? Anybody useStep Downs? Secondly, but probably most important to me, how many of you usetruncated ferrules and if so when - on all your rods? Any problems? orspecial treatment? Thanks in Advance, Rick from stpete@netten.net Thu May 14 08:06:46 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA03513 for Subject: Homemade Cork lathe? The last real tool I need right now is a lathe to work my cork on. Idon't like the premade grips that well and would rather select my owncork. I have been making the grips on threaded rod, turning them andthen reaming to fit my rod, but I'd rather make the grip on the rod toget the truest centering. I've thought about buying a 1/2" Jacobs chuck that fits on the oldblower motor off an A/C system. Grizzly Imports sells the chuck forabout $20. I could chuck up the butt and rig some kind of supportbearing for the middle of the section so that I'd have about 12" or sobetween the supported section of rod I was working. Another idea is to rig up a three jaw wood lathe chuck. Grizzly sellsthem for about $80. I'd have to come up with the threaded tube toattach it to and then I'd have to find a bearing to support the worksand get a pulley to drive it. Then I'd still have to support the otherend of the rod. Any comments or ideas? Anyone else done this? Rick from eestlow@srminc.com Thu May 14 08:53:47 1998 1997)) id86256604.004BC520 ; Thu, 14 May 1998 08:47:36 -0500 Subject: Bamboo Modulus of Elasticity Calculation Darryl and the List: As promised, for those experimentally inclined, here is the formula fordetermining the average modulus of elasticity of a glued up section. Thesection should be of constant diameter across flats. E = [w(l^3)] / [0.1803(d)(D^4)] where E = modulus of elasticity in psiw = weight hung in lbs.l = length from clamp to where the weight is hung in inchesd = deflection at the point the weight is hung in inchesD = section diameter across flats0.1803 = constant taking into account the section properties of ahexagon Clamp the section in a vise and hang a 1 or 2 lb weight 6 inches from thevise face. Rig a dial indicator to indicate deflection at the point theweight is hung. Measure as accurately as you can - d & D to 0.001, l to0.05, w as best you can. Plug the numbers into the equation and get themodulus. Just so you know you're reading the equation correctly, assume: w = 1 lb.l = 6 inchesd = .100 inchesD = .250 inches You should get E = 3,066,888 psi. Let me know what you get. Best regards,-Ed Estlow from tom@cet-inc.com Thu May 14 09:49:02 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Homemade Cork lathe? Rick,In the video, Portrait of a Bamboo Fly Rod Maker, Digger used anelectric drill and some homemade supports to turn cork handles on therod. I prefer turning handles on a steel rod and then adding to the rod.Before I got my South Bend lathe, I turned the handles on a drill press.Digger's drill idea should work for handles on or off the rod.Tom Whittle from stpete@netten.net Thu May 14 10:09:57 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA10847 for Subject: Re: Homemade Cork lathe? Tom wrote: Rick,In the video, Portrait of a Bamboo Fly Rod Maker, Digger used anelectric drill and some homemade supports to turn cork handles on therod. I prefer turning handles on a steel rod and then adding to the rod.Before I got my South Bend lathe, I turned the handles on a drill press.Digger's drill idea should work for handles on or off the rod.Tom Whittle Tom, Thanks for the idea. I have a drill press, but I'd have to get used tothe turning of the cork spinning vertically. I guess its just the wayyou get used to looking at something. Anyhow, I guess I need to dig upsome good ways to hold and protect the section while turning. That'swhere I'm getting stuck. The end held by the chuck is taken care of, itis the other support that I can't get an idea about. Ball bearing races with cork collets? I'd hate to be turning thesection when the cork gave out or flew out of the bearings. Any brite ideas? Rick from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu May 14 10:25:25 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0500 Subject: Re: Ferrules Rick,Let me reply from a fellow beginner's point of view to all threequestions you posed.1) Truncated ferrules haved worked great on (3) three piece rods for meso far. I can't say on two piece since I haven't made any yet.2) Cork lathe: Your idea with the old motor and Jacobs chuck will workfine as long as you get a perfectly straight arbor off the end of the motorto connect with the chuck. Otherwise, you'll have a big bounce at the endof the section. (Ask me how I learned that!) For the free end you willwant some sort of bearing contraption like the commercial rod wrappersorcork lathes. I used three small casters, two on bottom, and one fromabovemounted on threaded rods.3) Form burrs. I just finished my steel forms as well. To prevent theburrs caused by set screws from preventing full closure, I drilled a 3/8"hole appox. 1/8" deep in the untapped side of the forms, It has worked forme. I didn't use any special bottoming drills or anything like that to geta flat bottom. The set srews have created their own seats and now leavenoburrs. I think Thomas Penrose's page detailing Lawrence Waldron's formssuggested that he did that.Hope this helps,Harry Boyd Rick Crenshaw wrote: What's the latest opinions on ferrules? I seem to recall the latestdiscussions trending toward Super Swiss. What do you all prefer? Super Swiss or Super Z or other? Anybody useStep Downs? Secondly, but probably most important to me, how many of you usetruncated ferrules and if so when - on all your rods? Any problems? orspecial treatment? Thanks in Advance, Rick from rclarke@eou.edu Thu May 14 11:59:06 1998 Subject: Re: Homemade Cork lathe? Tom, please fill us in on this. I also have a drill proess and had notthought of using it for this. If it works ok, I want to use it. Robert Clarke ----------From: Rick Crenshaw Subject: Re: Homemade Cork lathe?Date: Thursday, May 14, 1998 8:07 AM Tom wrote: Rick,In the video, Portrait of a Bamboo Fly Rod Maker, Digger used anelectric drill and some homemade supports to turn cork handles on therod. I prefer turning handles on a steel rod and then adding to therod.Before I got my South Bend lathe, I turned the handles on a drillpress.Digger's drill idea should work for handles on or off the rod.Tom Whittle Tom, Thanks for the idea. I have a drill press, but I'd have to get used tothe turning of the cork spinning vertically. I guess its just the wayyou get used to looking at something. Anyhow, I guess I need to dig upsome good ways to hold and protect the section while turning. That'swhere I'm getting stuck. The end held by the chuck is taken care of, itis the other support that I can't get an idea about. Ball bearing races with cork collets? I'd hate to be turning thesection when the cork gave out or flew out of the bearings. Any brite ideas? Rick from SalarFly@aol.com Thu May 14 12:25:11 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrules While we are on the subject, how many ferrule manufacturers arethere out there? I just bought a couple sets from REC, and darn ifthey aren't exactly like Classic Sporting Enterprises. I hear AnglersWorkshop buys from them too. I bought a set from Cortland a long time ago and they are different. So, I know of two makers of ferrules.Anybody know of other ferrule makers? Darryl Hayashida from DBURRILL@TELEHUB.com Thu May 14 12:35:31 1998 Subject: RE: First Rod taper search I thank you all for responding. It looks like the Para 15 will be therod. I'll save the other suggestions for the next time. Thanks again. -----Original Message-----From: Tony Young [SMTP:tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au]Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 1998 6:04 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: First Rod taper search On Wed, 13 May 1998, A.J.Thramer wrote: Canerods wrote: In a message dated 98-05-13 13:09:29 EDT, you write: After listening to all of you for 6 months andparticipating ina limited fashion, I'm finally ready to build my first rod.It actuallytook the threat of being left out on a fishing trip fromanother listerto get my butt in motion. Anyway, I'm thinking an 8' 6wtwill be myfirst attempt. Looking for a good all around taper suitedto Westernrivers...versatile but with a little moxy. Anysuggestions? Wheremight I find a taper for the rod you suggest? Look at the Heddon Black Beauty taper. Don BurnsTry a Young Para 15A.J.Thramer Good choice. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from gwr@seanet.com Thu May 14 12:37:54 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA04925 for; Subject: Re: Ferrules Darryl, I think that Grahame Maisey's brother, S. Maisey, makes them. Grahamesells them through Belvoirdale. If the advertised size is equivalent inratio to that of the silk he sells, you could order a 13/64th set and findyourself well outfitted to build a billfish rod. Russ -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Ferrules While we are on the subject, how many ferrule manufacturers arethere out there? I just bought a couple sets from REC, and darn ifthey aren't exactly like Classic Sporting Enterprises. I hear AnglersWorkshop buys from them too. I bought a set from Cortland a longtime ago and they are different. So, I know of two makers of ferrules.Anybody know of other ferrule makers? Darryl Hayashida from CALucker@aol.com Thu May 14 12:47:32 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrules While we are on the subject, how many ferrule manufacturers arethere out there? I just bought a couple sets from REC, and darn ifthey aren't exactly like Classic Sporting Enterprises. I hear AnglersWorkshop buys from them too. I bought a set from Cortland a long time ago and they are different. So, I know of two makers of ferrules.Anybody know of other ferrule makers? Darryl Hayashida Here is a helpful hint: Don't limit yourself to thinking about who makes ferrules. Think aboutwhoMADE ferrules, or who HAD THEM MADE. This is especially helpful forfolksdoing restorations and repairs. Chris Lucker from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu May 14 12:49:52 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrules RO>Darryl, RO> I think that Grahame Maisey's brother, S. Maisey, makes them. GrahameRO>sells them through Belvoirdale. If the advertised size is equivalent inRO>ratio to that of the silk he sells, you could order a 13/64th set andfindRO>yourself well outfitted to build a billfish rod. RO> Russ Russ, And it would come with only one male after being charged for two. Darryl - Belvoirdale's ferrules are made in England by Grahame's brother- they are METRIC! If you order - do use a charge card (never cash) and understand thatexactly what Granhame promises might not be what you receive. Don'texpect overnight turnaround - more like a month, if it's in stock. My $0.02. Don Burns from tom@cet-inc.com Thu May 14 12:52:30 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Homemade Cork lathe? Robert and Rick,I use a 3/8" bar stock about 12" long. I rub candle wax on the bar andthen glue up and clamp my handle. When using the drill press, I chuckedthe bar in the press and used strips of sandpaper to form. I never hadany problems with the 3/8 bar wanting to flex, but you could use a blockof wood with a hole in it clamped to the press table to steady the freeend if you wanted to use a smaller bar stock. It's easier if you formthe tapered end or front of the handle on the up side. Rick is right, itseems a little strange at first working in the vertical, but it's notbad. I use the same bar in my lathe now. BTW, I use a Jacobs chuch in mylathe much mare than I use the three jaw chuck. After the handle in complete, if you tap the end of the bar on a hardsurface, the handle slides off. I use Titebond II glue for this but Ibelieve others have used the same process with Devcon.Tom from cmj@post11.tele.dk Thu May 14 13:49:34 1998 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA24368 +0200 Subject: Sv: Homemade Cork lathe? NAA31744 snipped: --->Ball bearing races with cork collets? I'd hate to be turning thesection when the cork gave out or flew out of the bearings. Any brite ideas? Rick Rick Yep, ball bearing and cork collets, in the middle of the rod. PLUSwife/fiancÄe/child equipped with a cotton rag and a loose grip at theferruleend. That is the way I do it, and it works. Not too many RPM's though. regards, Carsten from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu May 14 14:23:36 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0500 Subject: Re: Ferrules C'mon Chris, you have to spell it out for some of us. What are you tryingtosay? Do you have a secret source somewhere that you're not telling usabout?If so, shame on you!! :-)Harry Boyd CA Lucker wrote: While we are on the subject, how many ferrule manufacturers arethere out there? I just bought a couple sets from REC, and darn ifthey aren't exactly like Classic Sporting Enterprises. I hear AnglersWorkshop buys from them too. I bought a set from Cortland a longtime ago and they are different. So, I know of two makers of ferrules.Anybody know of other ferrule makers? Darryl Hayashida Here is a helpful hint: Don't limit yourself to thinking about who makes ferrules. Think aboutwhoMADE ferrules, or who HAD THEM MADE. This is especially helpful forfolksdoing restorations and repairs. Chris Lucker from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu May 14 16:16:55 1998 Subject: planing forms Rick - I should have mentioned this morning, that you should be verycarefulwhen filing the tip groove. It only takes a few passes to get the depth youneed at the small end of the form. If you go too far, you will have to do alot of draw filing to correct it, or you will not be able to plane a fine tip. from rmoon@ida.net Thu May 14 16:27:56 1998 Subject: Re: Sv: Homemade Cork lathe? Yes Carsten, I did it that way for many years until an overly eagerhelper gripped the cloth just a little to tightly. Instant hexipod!!!!! Ralph p.s. I now cuck it in the lathe and I have an elaborate series ofstabilizers to control any shaft flex. The butt is secured by a smallcountersunk hole with a live center in the tailstock and the three jawchuck is secured just above the grip. from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Thu May 14 18:04:58 1998 withESMTP id AAA12879 for ; Fri, 15 May 199800:08:55+0100 Subject: Re: Ferrules Yes that's right, they're made by his brother Shirley. Now you must believeme, British kids just aren't called Shirley. I've no idea what his parentswere thinking about when they named the poor little blighter: God knows,Graheme is bad enough. Shades of Johnny Cash's boy called Sue. I don'tknowwhether Shirley can fight. Don't get the two mixed up though. I've dealt with Shirl and found him tobe honest and reliable. Well, as reliable as a one-man-band can be. Hiswork is faultless. He's a really excellent engineer. I've bought fittings and they have always been faultless, and very good value. He's from the north, where they still eat Children, and own whippet dogswith terrified eyes, but Shirl's a good guy. I've heard nothing good about Graheme. Is he dishonest, or just anincompetent idiot. Sounds as though we've exported a bad egg. SORRY. John Cooper (England) ----------From: flyfisher@cmix.com Subject: Re: FerrulesDate: 14 May 1998 17:48 RO>Darryl, RO> I think that Grahame Maisey's brother, S. Maisey, makes them. GrahameRO>sells them through Belvoirdale. If the advertised size is equivalentinRO>ratio to that of the silk he sells, you could order a 13/64th set andfindRO>yourself well outfitted to build a billfish rod. RO> Russ Russ, And it would come with only one male after being charged for two. Darryl - Belvoirdale's ferrules are made in England by Grahame's brother- they are METRIC! If you order - do use a charge card (never cash) and understand thatexactly what Granhame promises might not be what you receive. Don'texpect overnight turnaround - more like a month, if it's in stock. My $0.02. Don Burns from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Thu May 14 18:20:46 1998 dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: depth guage calibration I don't know if this has been previously published on thelist but here it is anyway. A reasonable calibrator for your depth gauge is just asclose as a hole! Take a convenient piece of flat steel;thickness is not important but probably should be at least1/8" thick. Drill a hole (~1/8") in the steel; a drillpress is recommended to get the hole perpendicular. Anundersized hole and a reamer would probably increase theaccuracy. Level the piece of steel like you did the sole ofyour plane and you have a calibrator for your depth gauge.The accuracy is as good as the finished diameter of thehole. Now to use it. Since the point of the depth gauge is 60 degrees, the depthgauge will think the hole is: depth = 1/2 * (diameter of hole) * tan 60. Set your depth guage to read .108 and you are calibrated. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from Finanplanr@aol.com Thu May 14 18:23:09 1998 Subject: Re: An expirenced comment AMEN!!! Stu Kirkfield from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu May 14 18:27:27 1998 Fri, 15 May 1998 07:27:18 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Ferrules I've heard nothing good about Graheme. Is he dishonest, or just anincompetent idiot. Sounds as though we've exported a bad egg. SORRY. John Cooper (England) He must have been put off the boat on the way over here. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from cbogart@shentel.net Thu May 14 18:32:51 1998 Subject: Re: depth guage calibration OnisI would do that with