from ragnarig@integrityol.com Mon Jun 1 02:53:19 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id AF8A680256; Mon, 01 Jun 1998 01:00:10 PDT Subject: salmon rod taper wanted boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01BD8CF9.649E8E60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BD8CF9.649E8E60 Dear Listers I had originally addressed this to AJ Thramer but would welcome help or =suggestions from any of my friends on the list. Here's the problem: My right (casting) elbow is kid of, uh, =deteriorating and I'm having trouble using my salmon rod which is an old =Orvis Shooting Star. Great rod but it just stresses my arm joints too = Does anybody have any ideas as to what sort of rod I might try? My old =favorite trout stick is an FE Thomas 9-footer and it is still a real joy =to cast. It has a "semi-parabolic" action and basically casts itself. =My new favorite is a 6'3" made from Wayne C's "new" taper. Both of =these are basically 4wt rods though, and I want a rod with enough =fighting power that I don't have to release exhausted fish to die and =feed the gulls. Does anybody have experience with a Young Para-17? I was thinking that=might be a good one to try. It has also occurred to me that a two =handed rod might be the way to go, as it should distribute the strain to =both arms and I might be able to maintain this kind of action for a = Something tells me others on the list may have had to deal with this, so =your input would be especially valued. Doc says I'm not looking at =joint replacement for a few years and by then, who knows, the steelhead =might be gone. Oh... forget I said that. Thanks sincerely,Davy ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BD8CF9.649E8E60 Dear Listers I had originally addressed this to AJ Thramer but = welcome help or suggestions from any of my friends on the =list. uh, deteriorating and I'm having trouble using my salmon rod which is an = Does anybody have any ideas as to what sort of rod I= rods though, and I want a rod with enough fighting power that I don't = release exhausted fish to die and feed the gulls. Does anybody have experience with a Young = a two handed rod might be the way to go, as it should distribute the = both arms and I might be able to maintain this kind of action for a = Something tells me others on the list may have had= looking at joint replacement for a few years and by then, who knows, the = Thanks sincerely,Davy ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BD8CF9.649E8E60-- from hokkaido_flyfisher@yahoo.com Mon Jun 1 04:01:09 1998 Subject: In Search Of: Guides (works of art) Dear Rodmakers, The first cane rod is nearing completion ...My rodmaking teacher normally buys his guides from Angler's Workshop. I would liketo surprise him with something a special. Anyone out there who can help, much appreciated ;-) Cheers, Christian==Mr. Christian THALACKER Otaru University of CommerceMatsugae 2-6-30 Otaru International Center #253047-0022 Hokkaido JAPAN Midori 3-5-21 Otaru047 Hokkaido JAPAN Hokkaido_Flyfisher@yahoo.com or thalackerce@hotmail.comhttp://members.tripod.com/~Nijimasu/O.html_________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from hokkaido_flyfisher@yahoo.com Mon Jun 1 04:18:42 1998 Subject: ISO: Vintage Hardy Reel Dear Rodmakers, Sorry to take up the bandwidth ... I am searching to buy a vintage hardy reel to be used on a regular basis. Please email me off list at: hokkaido_flyfisher@yahoo.com Cheers, Christian==Mr. Christian THALACKER Otaru University of CommerceMatsugae 2-6-30 Otaru International Center #253047-0022 Hokkaido JAPAN Midori 3-5-21 Otaru047 Hokkaido JAPAN Hokkaido_Flyfisher@yahoo.com or thalackerce@hotmail.comhttp://members.tripod.com/~Nijimasu/O.html_________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from rcurry@top.monad.net Mon Jun 1 04:56:59 1998 Subject: Re: salmon rod taper wanted Davy,Since we both favor a 9' F.E. Thomas, our tastes may not be totallydissimilar. I find Chris Bogart's Big Dog Stick (8wt) to be verypleasant casting, but with plenty of "fighting power", too.Chris makes his with a hollow butt and mid to reduce weight. Thereshould be several at Grayling.Best regards,Reed from cmj@post11.tele.dk Mon Jun 1 06:38:39 1998 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA57806 Subject: Sv: salmon rod taper wanted boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001F_01BD8D62.990CB460" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BD8D62.990CB460 Davy wrote It has also occurred to me that a two handed rod might be the way to =go, as it should distribute the strain to both arms >and I might be able = Hi Davy You might have use of the following info: A swedish champion caster named G=F6ran Andersson has developed a =style of casting with a two handed rod which works as follows: Your =usual casting arm holds the rod with just two fingers round the top of =the handle. The arm and hand being kept almost still. The hand on the =other arm grips at the bottom of the rod, doing most of the work by =moving the bottom forwards and backwords. This casting style is developed for graphite rods, but it might be =adapted to cane. BTW, in Scandinavia most , if not all, salmon and =steelhead fishing is done with two handed rods. If You=B4re interested, I can scan some drawings and e-mail them to =You. Contact me off-list. regards Carsten ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BD8D62.990CB460 = be the way to go, as it should distribute the strain to both arms = Hi =Davy You might haveuse = following info: A swedishchampion = Göran Andersson has developed a style of casting with a two = which works as follows: Your usual casting arm holds the rod with = fingers round the top of the handle. The arm and hand being kept = still. The hand on the other arm grips at the bottom of the rod, = of the work by moving the bottom forwards and =backwords. This castingstyle = rods. If You´re = scan some drawings and e-mail them to You. Contact me =off-list. regards Carsten ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BD8D62.990CB460-- from channer@hubwest.com Mon Jun 1 06:44:36 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A478B130174; Mon, 01 Jun 1998 05:46:00 MDT Subject: Re: salmon rod taper wanted At 01:05 AM 6/1/98 -0700, you wrote:Dear Listers I had originally addressed this to AJ Thramer but would welcome help orsuggestions from any of my friends on the list. Here's the problem: My right (casting) elbow is kid of, uh, deterioratingand I'm having trouble using my salmon rod which is an old Orvis ShootingStar. Great rod but it just stresses my arm joints too much for a long dayon the Bogachiel to be as much fun as it used to. Does anybody have any ideas as to what sort of rod I might try? My oldfavorite trout stick is an FE Thomas 9-footer and it is still a real joy tocast. It has a "semi-parabolic" action and basically casts itself. My newfavorite is a 6'3" made from Wayne C's "new" taper. Both of these arebasically 4wt rods though, and I want a rod with enough fighting powerthatI don't have to release exhausted fish to die and feed the gulls. Does anybody have experience with a Young Para-17? I was thinking thatmight be a good one to try. It has also occurred to me that a two handedrod might be the way to go, as it should distribute the strain to both armsand I might be able to maintain this kind of action for a while. Something tells me others on the list may have had to deal with this, soyour input would be especially valued. Doc says I'm not looking at jointreplacement for a few years and by then, who knows, the steelhead mightbegone. Oh... forget I said that. Thanks sincerely,Davy Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\ATTACH\salmonro.htm"David;Altho I don't have a rod taper for you, I strongly urge you to teachyourself to cast with your other hand. I have a collapsed disk in my neckthat pinches the nerve running down into my right hand and a developingcase of carpal tunnel syndrome, so there are many things that I can't do handed when my right arm gets lit up. Of course, I can't cast as accuratelythis way, but it does help. I also find that I need to keep my plane bladessharp enough that the weight of the plane is enough to take a shaving, soall I have to do is litely push the plane along.Good luck, and take careJohn Channer from eestlow@srminc.com Mon Jun 1 07:52:00 1998 1997)) id86256616.0046109C ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 07:45:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Modulus Bill, Are you talking about modulus of elasticity or section modulus? There isnoway to determine modulus of elasticity except to test for it. Sectionmodulus is a function of the cross section geometry, thus is calculated.This is what is used to determine the stress in a structural element -where our infamous stress curves come from. I can get you the equationfora five sided section if you like. Darryl, I didn't get to the tapered beam version of the equation for determiningmodulus of elasticity this weekend - kid activities - it's basicallydetermining a multiplyer for the previous equation, but the multiplyer isbased upon the taper geometry and the section geometry. I keep working onit. Best regards,-Ed Estlow fiveside@net-gate.com (Bill Fink) on 05/31/98 06:43:12 PM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Modulus To Ed, Darryl and others,Been following the modulus discussion with interest but have hadnothingto contribute since have done no testing. However I have software whichwilloutput modulus data for any tapered hex (no fivers dammit) rod, whichcouldsave having to make up special test samples and could be applied to anyrod,old or new. If this is of interest get back to me.Good modulus data could be very revealing. I too would like to know justhow important holding to a thousanth really is if the modulus should varysomething like porm 20 percent from culm to culm, or rod to rod. And thisdata could resolve some of the controversy about heat treating andadhesives. Bill from dpeaston@wzrd.com Mon Jun 1 08:05:38 1998 mail.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) Subject: Re: salmon rod taper wanted At 05:41 AM 6/1/98, john channer wrote:At 01:05 AM 6/1/98 -0700, you wrote:Dear Listers I had originally addressed this to AJ Thramer but would welcome help orsuggestions from any of my friends on the list. Here's the problem: My right (casting) elbow is kid of, uh, deterioratingand I'm having trouble using my salmon rod which is an old Orvis ShootingStar. Great rod but it just stresses my arm joints too much for a longdayon the Bogachiel to be as much fun as it used to. Does anybody have any ideas as to what sort of rod I might try? My oldfavorite trout stick is an FE Thomas 9-footer and it is still a real joy tocast. It has a "semi-parabolic" action and basically casts itself. My newfavorite is a 6'3" made from Wayne C's "new" taper. Both of these arebasically 4wt rods though, and I want a rod with enough fighting powerthatI don't have to release exhausted fish to die and feed the gulls. Does anybody have experience with a Young Para-17? I was thinkingthatmight be a good one to try. It has also occurred to me that a two handedrod might be the way to go, as it should distribute the strain to botharmsand I might be able to maintain this kind of action for a while. Something tells me others on the list may have had to deal with this, soyour input would be especially valued. Doc says I'm not looking at jointreplacement for a few years and by then, who knows, the steelhead mightbegone. Oh... forget I said that. Thanks sincerely,Davy Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\ATTACH\salmonro.htm"David;Altho I don't have a rod taper for you, I strongly urge you to teachyourself to cast with your other hand. I have a collapsed disk in my neckthat pinches the nerve running down into my right hand and a developingcase of carpal tunnel syndrome, so there are many things that I can't do handed when my right arm gets lit up. Of course, I can't cast asaccuratelythis way, but it does help. I also find that I need to keep my plane bladessharp enough that the weight of the plane is enough to take a shaving, soall I have to do is litely push the plane along.Good luck, and take careJohn Channer Just a note, There is an article in FR&R or Fly Fisherman in the last 6 months whichexplains how to switch hands. I've been looking for the last half hour andcan't find the reference. The bottom line is: Start casting with bothhands; First with the dominant hand on top (casting on the dominant sideofthe body) then switching to the other side with the dominant hand on thebottom. The steady guidance of the dominant hand makes it possible toforma loop and time the cast you can slowly wean the non dominant hand fromthis assistance. -Doug Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from eestlow@srminc.com Mon Jun 1 08:07:16 1998 1997)) id86256616.0047744F ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 08:00:28 -0500 Subject: Modulus software Bill, After rereading your post, I think I made a wrong assumption (about whatyou were saying) in my last post. I'd sure be interested in seeing thedetails about your software - inputs, outputs, etc. You can contact me offlist if you feel this is taking too much bandwidth. If it's of interest tothe listmembers, we can continue this way. -Ed from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Mon Jun 1 11:48:46 1998 (MET DST) Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Line MasjC1@aol.com wrote: Does anyone have any experience with the McKenzie Bamboo Fly Line?The ad inthe latest Bamboo Fly Rod (page 36) makes it look attractive, but howdoes itperform? Mark ColeDear Mark and Rodmakers! I tried different fly lines in the last month, also the MCKenzie BambooLine. I was surprised about the performance, the line casts very welland think it`s a very good line for a soft, delicate presentation ofsmaller dry-fly patterns. I tried lso with weighted nymphs, that`sanother story,short said i will prefer the line for driy-flys only. The line work wellon shorter casts, but works also for wider ones. I use a DT 4.Another, not so good, but not a bad line is the new clear, floating line from Orvis ( also other retailers). The DT 5 casts well also in windyweather, but this line is a little bit stiff an the surface feels a bitrough. Think thats the reason, this line glides not so well trough thesnake guides. But in the very clear, not high water, like in ourmountain creeks, this line is very good for shy trouts. I made sometimesa false cast, the line landet exact over the fishs head, but that wasnot a problem, the next cast the fish take the my pattern. Thin that washe couldnt see the clear line. Best wishes Stefan-- S. Grau`s atelier edelweissGespliesste Angelruten/Split Cane RodsSwiss Flyfishing Schoolhttp://www.BuchLang.com/~grau Adresse:Brunnadernstr. 11 CH - 3006 BerneTel: ++41 (0) 31 352 42 88 ab 19.00/ from 7.PME-Mail: gespliesst@bluewin.ch from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Jun 1 11:49:29 1998 Subject: Re: salmon rod taper wanted In a message dated 6/1/98 7:57:09 AM, you wrote: Davy - I don't own a Para 17, but have cast them. I think you will find it alot more comfortable than the Orvis. I am also the proud owner of a blownoutelbow, and need to be careful with heavy rods. A good double haultechniqueand a slower taper will take a lot of pressure off your casting arm. from geneh@telenet.net Mon Jun 1 12:13:11 1998 Subject: Re: Book Find Gary, I am very interested. Please send me the details. Hope this is nottoo late. Bad series of storms here tis weekend and no email from Sat -MonAM. MTIA. Gene Anyone interested,I just located a copy of "The Idyl Of The Split Bamboo" (old librarycopy). The owner is asking a little more than half the current price, ifanyone has a desire to own this book please contact me off list fordetails. (If more than one person is interested it will have to be on afirst come bases, sorry.) Gary H.destinycon@mindspring.com from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Jun 1 13:58:20 1998 0500 Subject: Shapes for Cork List,I've been re-reading the archives, and noticed a thread inNovember and December of 96 about what makes for aesthetic beauty in arod. One item mentioned was correct sizes and shapes of grips. Onthe first rod I built, I fashioned a Garrison style grip to his exactspecifications. At the time I thought, "Man, that's ugly, but I'msure it will function well." To shorten this story a little, that isthe most uncomfortable grip I've ever used. I get a cramp in the baseof my thumb after only a few minutes of casting. I'm sure I'll re-doit soon.Here's my question: What have you found in terms of grip shapesthat are not only pleasing to the eye, but efficient in transferringenergy from hand to rod? I know many older rods were made with cigarshaped grips. What do you think looks good, and works well, today?Is it "comficient" grips, or "hammer handles" or "Or%#@s superfine" orreverse half wells, or Western, etc.? I'm just trying to get a littlediscussion started.Thanks in advance,Harry Boyd from thramer@presys.com Mon Jun 1 14:27:48 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Shapes for Cork Harry Boyd wrote: List,I've been re-reading the archives, and noticed a thread inNovember and December of 96 about what makes for aesthetic beauty inarod. One item mentioned was correct sizes and shapes of grips. Onthe first rod I built, I fashioned a Garrison style grip to his exactspecifications. At the time I thought, "Man, that's ugly, but I'msure it will function well." To shorten this story a little, that isthe most uncomfortable grip I've ever used. I get a cramp in the baseof my thumb after only a few minutes of casting. I'm sure I'll re-doit soon.Here's my question: What have you found in terms of grip shapesthat are not only pleasing to the eye, but efficient in transferringenergy from hand to rod? I know many older rods were made with cigarshaped grips. What do you think looks good, and works well, today?Is it "comficient" grips, or "hammer handles" or "Or%#@s superfine" orreverse half wells, or Western, etc.? I'm just trying to get a littlediscussion started.Thanks in advance,Harry BoydHi Harry,Short summations of my personal use experiments Superfine, looks sharp, fishes BAD!Hammer , Looks weird, they don't sell, extremely comfortableRitz, Looks weird, they don't sell, very comfortableGarrison, ARitz with a round nose, they tend to be thinner to lookbetter, the thinner they are the worse they workWells(Western) Can be very comfortable to fish but they have to be atleast 13 rings and preferably 14-15. Reverse half wells, If built full bodied extremely comfotable, they sellwell and they look goodCigar If built full as above they are good as a RHW, looks Eastern, morepleasing with a DL seat I thinkA.J.Thramer from jcole10@juno.com Mon Jun 1 14:54:29 1998 15:52:54 EDT Subject: Re: Shapes for Cork Harry I recently received a mailing from CORK SPECIALTIES, INC. that included27 full size drawings of cork handles. Have not used any of their corkyet, but they have some interesting prices. Let me know if you would liketo have their address. Also cannot tell you how these designs feel, sinceI am still planing my first rod. John Cole _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from dryfly@erols.com Mon Jun 1 15:07:20 1998 Subject: Re: Shapes for Cork Harry I have used quite a variety of grips over the years on bamboo and graphiterods and personally enjoy the differences of each. However, one grip I'venever used is the Garrison grip because I always thought it lookeduncomfortable. I think some of the more important considerations forgrip size and shape are as follows:1) the reel seat to be used with grip2) how the size of the grip helps balance the rod3) the line weight to be used4) cast length and amount of line to be lifted to cast5) type of fish and fish fighting considerations6) size of the casting hand I've used 4 1/2" grips with a small uplock ring seat on light line rodsand up to a 7 1/2" full-wells on saltwater graphites which all beencomfortable to cast with. However, I've seen small rods with grips I'dconsider too large and long heavy weight rods with grips too small. Ifind that you can't beat a full-wells or even a half-wells grip on rodsgreater than 8 feet that use heavier lines; these grips provide more cork 8 1/2 feet with 3-5 lines and I like cigar grips on rods shorter than 71/2 feet with 2-5 lines. For years I made very thin grips but over thepast couple of years I have gone to making slightly thicker grips. I think the hot grips today from a commercial viewpoint are the westerngrip with an screw uplock reel seat for trout rods and a full-wells grip I'm not sure I answered your questions, just my $.02.Bob Harry Boyd wrote: List,I've been re-reading the archives, and noticed a thread inNovember and December of 96 about what makes for aesthetic beauty inarod. One item mentioned was correct sizes and shapes of grips. Onthe first rod I built, I fashioned a Garrison style grip to his exactspecifications. At the time I thought, "Man, that's ugly, but I'msure it will function well." To shorten this story a little, that isthe most uncomfortable grip I've ever used. I get a cramp in the baseof my thumb after only a few minutes of casting. I'm sure I'll re-doit soon.Here's my question: What have you found in terms of grip shapesthat are not only pleasing to the eye, but efficient in transferringenergy from hand to rod? I know many older rods were made with cigarshaped grips. What do you think looks good, and works well, today?Is it "comficient" grips, or "hammer handles" or "Or%#@s superfine" orreverse half wells, or Western, etc.? I'm just trying to get a littlediscussion started.Thanks in advance,Harry Boyd from harry37@epix.net Mon Jun 1 15:13:01 1998 SMTP id QAA09939 Subject: Re: Shapes for Cork JOHN E COLE wrote: HarryI recently received a mailing from CORK SPECIALTIES, INC. that included27 full size drawings of cork handles. Have not used any of their corkyet, but they have some interesting prices. Let me know if you would liketo have their address. Also cannot tell you how these designs feel, sinceI am still planing my first rod. John Cole _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] John-I'd be interested in looking at the set of drawings of cork handles-- Doyou have an address or a URL for Cork Specialties? Thanks, Greg Kuntz from Finanplanr@aol.com Mon Jun 1 20:03:34 1998 Subject: Re: Incorrect Publisher listed for "Fine Bamboo Fly Rod" Folks, I just noticed that my book, The Fine Bamboo Fly Rod, has the incorrectpublisher and publication date as listed in the Rodmaker's websiteBookshelfsection. I noticed this about a month ago and e-mailed them requestingthatthey make the necessary corrections, but, so far, they apparently have notdone so. I have just requested the correction again. In the meantime,sincea number of you folks on this list have e-mailed me re: availablity of mybook, I thought I ought to let you know the correct publisher wasStackpolePress (NOT Winchester) and the correct publication date was 1986 (NOT1976).Please don't make me 10 years older than I already am! I hope this correct information may make it easier for some of you to findacopy. Warm regards,Stuart Kirkfield from MasjC1@aol.com Mon Jun 1 20:18:24 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Shapes for Cork John, Do tell. I would be interested in receiving a copy of their address etc. Mark Cole from jsbond@inforamp.net Mon Jun 1 20:46:07 1998 adams@mail.travel-net.com, bondd@v-wave.com,doeltd@intlaurentides.qc.ca, DRuss1685@aol.com,listserv@lsv.uky.edu,"Steve W. Southard" ,atverret@mail.rci-enr.net, glenn.murray@sympatico.ca,michhurtubise@hotmail.com, idmartin@GOLDEN.NET,jchurch@inforamp.net,jbond@interlog.com, KZiglar@ktisbds.mhs.compuserve.com,kziglar@tdstelme.net, flyfish@lsv.uky.edu,Mauro Aiello , diasco@interlog.com,myarrow@forzani.com, pmontani@awinc.com,nwilliams@meighen.com,Panes@wwdc.com, flyfish@infoteck.qc.ca,rmatthew@widow.aracnet.net,blades@pathcom.com, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu,LISTPROC@wugate.wustl.edu, rbarch@remc.k12.mi.us,anglers@rof.net,102130.461@CompuServe.COM, tjpro@iafrica.com,TCENT@netrover.com,WayneCatt@aol.com, info@winstonrods.com Subject: FW___Fwd___Fwd__FW__Chance_to_win_$1000__ X-From_: richard.hunt@edwardjones.com Mon Jun 01 11:49:28 1998Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 11:47:53 -0400From: richard.hunt@edwardjones.comSubject: FW___Fwd___Fwd__FW__Chance_to_win_$1000__ ssuter@globeandmail.ca, ncheryk@globeandmail.ca,lisab@fpadv.finpost.com,scona@resp-usc.com, sarahb@fpadv.finpost.com, mike@edesigngroup.com,tovag@sprynet.com, jsbond@inforamp.net, cesehibits@msn.com,garys@outer-net.com, kristak@fpadv.finpost.com, pbarham@tmp.com,frank_mallany@compuserve.com, cdowney88@aol.com,ronlaw@netcom.ca,pangea@inforamp.net, udcorp@caribsurf.com, sleightr@weirfoulds.com,dnadesign@hotmail.com, phibbsincorporated@sympatico.caContent-disposition: INLINE;FILENAME=FW___Fwd___Fwd__FW__Chance_to_win_$1000__ X-OpenMail-Hops: 2 Tanya -----Original Message-----From: Sevilla, Bel [BRAM:1401:EXCH] Sent: Monday, June 01, 1998 9:10 AM [BRAM:0009:EXCH];Sovani, Zaina [WDLN:1406-M:EXCH]Subject: FW: [Fwd: [Fwd: FW: Chance to win $1000]]Importance: High I sure could use the $1,000. 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Sue ----------From: Paul, Josie [KWAY:1080:EXCH]Sent: Friday, May 29, 1998 2:35 PM [KWAY:1080:EXCH]; Hesk, Barb [KWAY:1080:EXCH]; Garabedian, Hasmig[KWAY:1080:EXCH]; Timmins, Janice [WDLN:1080:EXCH];'Jane.Williams@cable.alcatel.com'; 'Dearling, Sue'; 'Kathlyne Hungerford'Subject: FW: [Fwd: [Fwd: FW: Chance to win $1000]] I could do with $1000.00 right about now............scroll down to thevery bottom of this e-mail.Josie PaulNortel Learning Institute* ESN456-1058 705- 725-1162FAX ESN456-1087 705-725-0988 ----------From: Smallwood, Sue [BRAM:3010:EXCH]Sent: Friday, May 29, 1998 12:30 PM Subject: FW: [Fwd: [Fwd: FW: Chance to win $1000]] Read the last page. What the heck its worth trying... Sue -----Original Message-----From: Huq, Lois [BRAM:L530:EXCH] Sent: Friday, May 29, 1998 12:25 PM Frank Rosa; Gord Hils; Gordon Forrest; Grace Rutledge; Jagjit Gupta;Jo-anne Wong; Karen Taylor-Hudson; Kay Kruse; Kelly Norgate; LynneSangster; Maria Bianchi-Morfino; Maureen Patey; Naftali Shani; PeterHlavnicka; Rhonda Buck; Richard Suda; Robert Bell; Robert Picard; RonaldMansi; Salim Champsi; Sandra Downey; Sandra Schroeder; Sean Graglia;SihamKodsi; Stephen Roberts; Sue Smallwood; Alan Baris; Beth Shields;Catherine-BRW Hargreaves; Cathy Maclean; Christine Swystun;ChristopherEmery; Evelyn Hsia; Jamie Harrison; Janice Moore; Jessica Philip;KathrynMcdonald-Hodge; Kim Carson; Margaret Newton; Mark Inkster; NorbyDippold;Rasheel Mohammed; Richard Middaugh; Robert Ulbikas; Ronald Hall;RubinaAnsari; Sandra Carpino; Sandra Pureta; Shirish Agnihotri; ShiroWijayaratnam; Sue Schmidt; Tara Kropf; Victoria Jodoin; ViktoriaYazdani;Vivian Hsia; Yolanda SivasankaranSubject: FW: [Fwd: [Fwd: FW: Chance to win $1000]] Lois Morrison-HuqWorld of Networks CenterPhone: (905) 863-1591FAX: (905) 863-8530ESN: 333 -----Original Message-----From: Nasuto, Jenny [BRAM:L530-I:EXCH] Sent: Friday, May 29, 1998 10:47 AM McCready, Lynn [BRAM:L530:EXCH]; Dube, Leslie [BRAM:L530- M:EXCH];Stephen,Christine [BRAM:L530:EXCH]; Kropf, Tara [BRAM:L530:EXCH]; Powell,Donald-Jr [BRAM:L530:EXCH]; Huq, Lois [BRAM:L530:EXCH]Subject: FW: [Fwd: [Fwd: FW: Chance to win $1000]] Hello Everyone, a chance to win $1000 each. Go to very last page andreadBill Gates' note. -----Original Message-----From: Toni Orlando [SMTP:TORLANDO@post.bell.ca]Sent: Friday, May 29, 1998 10:31 AM Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: FW: Chance to win $1000]] Chance to win. See very last note ...---------------------- Forwarded by Toni Orlando/Ontario on05/29/98 10:24AM--------------------------- MARGHERITA MAGLIOZZI [BELL.MARGIEM] @ BESI05/29/98 09: 43 AM cc:Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: FW: Chance to win *1000]] Toni, We could be a little bit richer ....Marg ---------------------------------------------------------------- This is from Bill Gates....look at the last page of this long sequence.!Mike...thanks for the clarification on Bill Gates' new application!!Don't duplicate my "To" list now!!Friends...sounds like this could pay our 'golf day' outing.....eitherway...let's plan it! (or our Bell Squash Night John!)Have a great day...Louise---------------------- Forwarded by Louise Lanctot/BSTS/BELLSYGMAon98-05-29 08:35 --------------------------- Joanne C. Birch98-05-28 16: 19 cc:Subject: FW: Chance to win $1000 Don't forget my commission (if we get the $) is 10%!---------------------- Forwarded by Joanne C.Birch/BSTS/BELLSYGMA on05/28/98 04:07 PM ------ --------------------- Jan Lockwood @ BELLCANADA05/28/98 04: 07 PM cc:Subject: FW: Chance to win $1000 ---------------------- Forwarded by Jan Lockwood/Ontario on05/28/98 04:05PM--------------------------- Don Bristow05/28/98 04: 36 PM Lockwood/Ontario,Danielle Houde/BSTS/BELLSYGMA @ BELLSYGMA, John L. Fry/Ontario,PaulC.Howarth/Ontariocc:Subject: FW: Chance to win $1000 May be true????? But I don't believe it!---------------------- Forwarded by Don Bristow/Ontario on05/28/98 03:59PM--------------------------- William A. Thompson05/28/98 03: 26 PM cc:Subject: FW: Chance to win $1000 Why not! A little spam can't hurt??---------------------- Forwarded by William A. Thompson/Ontario on05/28/98 03:34 PM --------------------------- Bryan Glover05/28/98 03: 01 PM Malisani/Ontario@BellCanada,MichaelMoser/Ontario@BELLCANADA, Rocco Lallone/Ontario@BELLCANADA,MichaelBryce/BSTS/BELLSYGMA@BELLSYGMA, JagajeevSiva/Ontario@BELLCANADA, WilliamA.Thompson/Ontario@BELLCANADA, Virginia L.Coups/Ontario@BELLCANADAcc:Subject: FW: Chance to win $1000 lets give it a try!Bryan---------------------- Forwarded by Bryan Glover/Ontario on05/28/98 03:10PM--------------------------- Lesley A. Sullivan05/28/98 09: 12 AM Ginn/srci/Stentor @ Stentor, Anne Pulcine/Ontario, sn.longhurst @resonet.com@internet, m.biasone @ bell.ca@internet, janet.sidey @bell.ca@internet,Louise Rainville/Ontario, summitco @ istar.com@internet, sue.harris@resonet.com@internet, Joe Pampena/Ontario, marksul @nortel.com@internet,JamesA. Fee/Ontario, Gerry Malisani/Ontario, Bryan Glover/Ontario, TimothyRumball/Ontariocc:Subject: FW: Chance to win $1000 This 'appears' to be a legitimate Bill Gates offer - scroll to bottom ofmessage for info. Pass this on to as many people as you can and I'll seeyou in Vegas!Lesley---------------------- Forwarded by Lesley A. Sullivan/Ontario on05/28/9808:58 AM --------------------------- Jose Ormonde05/28/98 07: 14 AM Sullivan/Ontario@BELLCANADA, BethB. Nelson/Ontario@BELLCANADA, Gerry G.Dainty/Ontario@BELLCANADA,Johanne.belanger@cgi.ca @ internet, NicoleLaberge/BGS/BELLSYGMA@BELLSYGMA,John Canestrari/BGS/BELLSYGMA@BELLSYGMA, NormParsons/Quebec@BellCanada,Heather Moxley/Ontario@BELLCANADAcc:Subject: FW: Chance to win $1000 If we all could win, sorry for the long distribution but if it is true;,well we all could buy expensive and clean under wear.Ha..ha..Have a great one.------------ ---------- Forwarded by Jose Ormonde/Quebec on05/28/98 07:17AM----------- ---------------- Alain Prevost05/27/98 12: 01 PM cc:Subject: FW: Chance to win $1000 Je ne sais pas ce que ca vaut, mais enfin qui sait?Alain---------------------- Forwarded by Alain Prevost/Quebec on05/27/98 11:53AM---------------------- ----- L. Constance Lanthier05/27/98 11: 47 AM cc:Subject: FW: Chance to win $1000 Apparently this has been verified and is in fact true!Here's hoping. If we do win you guys can buy me a coffee!Connie cc: Barbara A. Burns/Ontario, Michel Joly/OntarioFrom: Jamileh Ehsani/OntarioDate: 05/27/98 10:52:24 AMSubject: FW: Chance to win $1000 Hi Barb,Please forward to the team.ThanksJamileh neilnet.com,myboilea @ uottawa.ca, Lynda Alexander/BSTS/BELLSYGMA @BELLSYGMA, GordIrving/srci/Stentor @ Stentor, Denis D Galipeau/srci/Stentor @Stentor,Philip A. Proulx/srci/Stentor @ Stentor, Diane A. Morris/srci/Stentor @Stentor, Deborah M. Fortier/srci/Stentor @ Stentor, Sylvie SMeranger/srci/Stentor @ Stentor, Nicole D. Therrien/srci/Stentor @Stentor, Sheila L. Johnston/srci/Stentor @ Stentor, Sheila E.Kelly/srci/Stentor @ Stentor, Claire J Joanisse- Kluke/srci/Stentor @Stentor, Suzie Cornellier/srci/Stentor @ Stentor, SuzanneKimberley-Giroux/BSTS/BELLSYGMA @ BELLSYGMA, TammyMelamed/Ontario,Suzanne A. Lacelle/Ontario, Victoria G. Cordani/srci/Stentor @ Stentor,Cheryl M. Daley/srci/Stentor @ Stentor, Line Charron-Guerard/srci/Stentor@ Stentor, Suzanne R. Parent/srci/Stentor @ Stentor, LauretteBrule/srci/Stentor @ Stentor, Maureen M. Heuff/srci/Stentor @ Stentor,Lucy M. Axford/srci/Stentor @ Stentor, Micheline Levasseur/Ontario,AnnaUrgolo/Ontario, Maria M Pacheco/srci/Stentor @ Stentor, Christine CBaribeau/srci/Stentor @ Stentor, Claude Parent/Ontario, Gayle MLow/srci/Stentor @ Stentor, Peter Gamble/srci/Stentor @ Stentor,PhilippeJ Gregoire/scnm/Stentor @ Stentor, RachelleVaillancourt/scnm/Stentor @Stentor, Connie A. Beattie/srci/Stentor @ Stentor, Michele L.Milotte-Segall/srci/Stentor @ Stentor, Adele L. Groulx/srci/Stentor @Stentor,Robert J. Gislason/srci/Stentor @ Stentor, David Petrosky/srci/Stentor@Stentor, Michael Graham/srci/Stentor @ Stentor, Barbara DeRuyter/srci/Stentor@ Stentor, Mary Ellen Mauti/srci/Stentor @ Stentor, Daniel J.Dutrisac/Ontario,Susan M. Grohn/Ontario, Anne A Brown/srci/Stentor @ Stentor, Norm WFulton/srci/Stentor @ Stentor, Jackie S Boileau/srci/Stentor @Stentor,HeleneA Croteau/srci/Stentor @ Stentor, Louise A Dignard/srci/Stentor @Stentor,Kerry L Wendell/srci/Stentor @ Stentorcc:From: Diane S Rheault/srci/Stentor @ STENTOR@ODADate: 05/27/98 08:37:23 AMSubject: FW: Chance to win $1000 Please read and forward to as many friends as possible...I've checkedthisoutand it's not a BS chain letter or something...Microsoft is giving awayWin98 &$$$ if this reaches 1,000 people...duplicate entries don't countthough...So,please help & pass on...Here you go!!! Scroll down to the end to see BillGates message. We can all use $1000.00 - Good luck ---------------------- Forwarded by Diane S Rheault/srci/Stentor on98/05/27 08:00 AM --------------------------- WoodB @ city.ottawa.on.ca98/05/26 08:27 AM cc:Subject: FW: Chance to win $1000 -----Original Message-----From: Decarie, LietteSent: Monday, May 25, 1998 3:59 PM Danis, Denis; Dunn, Darcy; Aube, Rita; Lajoie, Emile; Smith, Brian;Scervino, Fern; Wood, BrianSubject: FW: Chance to win $1000Importance: High ----------From: Dray, RossieSent: Monday, May 25, 198 2:45 PM Liette; Richer, RonSubject: FW: Chance to win $1000Importance: High ----------From: Stevenson, BonnieSent: Monday, May 25, 1998 1:03 PM Subject: FW: Chance to win $1000Importance: High We'll go to lunch ----------From: Girgis, GiseleSent: Monday, May 25, 1998 9:06 AM Caminiti, Cosimo; Goold, John; Pantalone, Cliff; McDonald, Danielle;Stevenson, Bonnie; Scharf, Lenna; Sauve, Angele; Situ, Irene; Zetchus,KristinaSubject: FW: Chance to win $1000Importance: High We can all use $1000.00 - Good luck----------From: Karnik-Gumaste, PriyaSent: Monday, May 25, 1998 8:12 AM Marlene;Girgis, Gisele; Dunn, Janet; McInnis, Debbie; Roy, Linda; Riopelle,Vicky; Riopelle, Louis; Ossa, OreolaSubject: FW: Chance to win $1000Importance: High Nothing to loose pass it on----------From: Kampman, WendySent: Friday, May 22, 1998 1:41 PM Maisonneuve, Sue; Manery, Christine; Massicotte, Diana; McKinley,Eric; Meloche, Lise; Milot, Sylvie; Milton, Debbie; Mitchell-Morrison,Karen; Montgomery, Alan; Murray, Kim; Negro, Cosimo; Potvin, Barbara;Pregent, Chris; Proulx, Louise; Regimbald, Bob; Seaton, Elizabeth;Stafford, Jan; Tovey, Cathy; Wilson, Gill; Yazdani, Sherri; Samson,Chantal; Denommee, CindySubject: FW: Chance to win $1000Importance: High ----------From: Whissell, SherrySent: Thursday, May 21, 1998 8:47 AM LivingCentre; Boland, Kay; Pimentel, Connie; Lynch, Jane; Butcher, Jennifer;Gregoire, Michelle; Bayley, Ken; Lemay, Francois; Labossiere, Andre;Paz, Ester; Houle, Brenda; 'claudette.gosselin@sap- ag.de';'mthorne@flash.net'Subject: FW: Chance to win $1000 Hey!!! ...this sounds good to me!...what have we got to lose? Importance: High We have to take a chance, you never know. ----------From: Fournier, DianeSent: Wednesday, May 20, 1998 12:20 PM Burt; Clement, Ginette; Conner, Paul; Crupi, Elaine; Currie, Denyse;Diotte, Henri; Dore, Murielle; Edwards, Cathy; Faux, Sue; Gougeon,Bob; Gougeon, Bob; Nasralla, Mary; Ouellette, Jean; Patey, Mae-Ling;Pinard, Nathalie; Quenneville, Sue; Robinson, Gord; Robinson, Jane;Roy, Debbie; Sarazin, Charles; Switzer, Norm; Vaillant, Suzanne; Viau,Lynda; Walker, Lorne; Whissell, Sherry; Willmott, Gloria; Woodard,Giovanna; Larose, Wayne; Kushniruk, Sandra; Kouri, Tony; Kavanagh,Jim; Jeanvenne, MichelineSubject: FW: Chance to win $1000Importance: High ----------From: Leal, EvelinaSent: Wednesday, May 20, 1998 11:15 AM Ferguson, Jack; Flanagan, Kelly; Fournier, Diane; Poirier, Gib;Stafford, Maurice; Curran, Patsy; Roemmele, Mary; Lynch, Jane;Reitano, Maria; Goodman, Barry; Guindon, NancySubject: FW: Chance to win $1000Importance: High ----------From:Pereira.Belmera@tbs-sct.gc.ca[SMTP:Pereira.Belmera@tbs- sct.gc.ca]Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 1998 8:36 AM IMCEAX400- CE+3BA=GOVMT+2ECANADA+3BP=GC+2BNRCAN+2ERNCAN+3BS=DoRego+3BG=Maria+3B@fin.gc.ca; Leal, Evelina;IMCEAX400- CE+3BA=GOVMT+2ECANADA+3BP=GC+2BFAIT+2EAECI+2EPPT+3BS=Rego+3BG=Cathy+3B@fin.gc.caSubject: FW: Chance to win $1000Importance: High Belmera Pereira952-2872 -----Original Message-----From: Gravelle, JocelyneSent: Wednesday, May 20, 1998 8:29 AM Subject: FW: Chance to win $1000Importance: High Pls. follow instructions below. Jocelyne -----Original Message-----From: Plante, NathalieSent: May 19, 1998 12:18 PM Nadine; St-Georges, Denise; Legault, Claudette; Arial, Chantal;Campeau,Nathalie; Hotte, Christiane; Bouladier, Joelle; Cadieux, Chantal;Carriere, Johanne; Gravelle, JocelyneSubject: FW: Chance to win $1000Importance: High Hi, we have nothing to lose.... You will have to scroll completely downto read the note from Bill Gates. Bonne journee! Nathalie PlanteGestion des locaux/Facilities Management - 5E947-1618 -----Original Message-----From: Reitano, SuzanneSent: 15 May, 1998 2:43 PM Giles, Mike; Plante, Nathalie; Sabourin, Joelle; Nyveld, Gerri;Seguin,Denise L; Bourdages-Villeneuve, Line; Trottier, Louisette; Santos,TinaSubject: FW: Chance to win $1000Importance: High -----Original Message-----From: Reitano, Tina: ICSent: Friday, May 15, 1998 12:24 PM IC; Reynolds, Craig: IC; Reitano, SuzanneSubject: FW: Chance to win $1000Importance: High Well, we have nothing to lose... you have to scroll completely down tothe bottom of the page to view Bill Gates' message!----------From: Larue, Roxanne HQASD1; Hart, Lorraine HQASD2A; Church, Dora HQASD2B;Hynes, Cathleen; McLeod, France; Button, Laurie HQCOB; Pearce,Erin HQCSD2; Agboton, Raphael; Archambault, Annie; Barrow,Tony;Belaskie, Cynthia E.; Burns-Boucher, Kathi; Charette, Isabelle;Clinton,Lynn; Dupont, Anna; Estabrooks, Stan; Fong, Nick; Girouard, Julie;Holliday, John; Labelle, Lynn; Love, Constance; Philippe, Lynda;Macdonald, Derek; MacLean, Suzanne; Oakes, Catherine; Paquette Lucie;Richard, Dan; Ripley, Dave; Sauve, Diane; Stevens, Connie; Stevens,Jim;Strasbourg, Sylvie; Tousignant, Francois; Villeneuve, Gilles;Wallingford, Gail; Wight, Wendy; Couture, Bernard; Giroux, Manon;Poirier, Nicole; Laviolette, Josee; Mallette, Francoise HQTRSAC1;Roblin, Rob RTPRCMP; Emanuella (Carine@bvx.com);elena (elena.dicola@pwgsc.gc.ca); chris(larue@vegacom.on.ca); Paul(pol@nortel.ca); Shirley-Anne (sbooth@bbbns.com); DICOLA,L:HRDC; Reitano, Tina: CIPO;Larue, Suzanne D: VACSubject: FW: Chance to win $1000Date: Friday, May 15, 1998 11:57AM ----------From: McLewin, Anne Marc;Denroche, James; Douglas, Scott; Lalande, Rock; Lee, Lynn;Lopes, Diane;Mathieu, Diane; Moulton, Randy; Williams, Patricia; Larue,RoxanneHQCSGSubject: FW: Chance to win $1000Date: Friday, May 15, 1998 9:07AMPriority: High ----------From: Lacroix, Gaston P.Sent: Friday, May 15, 1998 8:29 AM Carole: Subject: FW: Chance to win $1000Importance: High ----------From: Hitchins, Jayne Subject: FW: Chance to win $1000Date: Friday, May 15, 1998 8:17AMPriority: High ----------From: Yee, Jimmy Subject: FW: Chance to win $1000Date: Thursday, May 14, 1998 3:56PMPriority: High ----------From: Langlois, Gaston Jundi,Ahmad; Mouchet, Tim; Yee, JimmySubject: FW: Chance towin $1000Date: Thursday, May 14, 1998 3:27PMPriority: High we have a chance to win $1000 and Windows 98 Beta (each person)Let's speed this email!!!!----------From: Mendoza, Ovidio Frank * SXPSubject: FW: Chance to win $1000Date: Thursday, May 14, 1998 15:21Priority: High ----------From: Mageau, Ben HQCSGSubject: FW: Chance to win $1000Date: 14 May, 1998 13:21Priority: High ----------From: White, Heather DonHQCD; Grace, Harry HQCD; McManus, JohnHQCD;Losier, Linda; Rossignol, Shelley HQCD; Richard, Jo-An; PaulaHayes; Jayne BlagdonSubject: FW: Chance to win $1000Date: 14 May, 1998 12:17Priority: High One of the persons who is distributing this is our technical securityofficer so I'm assuming it's O.K.Heather----------From: Wilcott, Pat 'O'CONNOR, DAVID'; Rose, Jan; Sperry Dawn; Taylor, Margaret;White, Heather;Wilkins, Beatrice; Fisher, Mike: PCH; CROWELL_D; Pittman,Trudy[Dartmouth];superwrench; Daye, Verna; Tanya White at VAC/ACCSubject: FW: Chance to win $1000Date: Thursday, May 14, 1998 10:54AMPriority: High ----------From: Josey, Vivian Shelley; Stewart, Elizabeth; Stewart, Nancy; Wilcott, PatSubject: FW: Chance to win $1000Date: Thursday, May 14, 1998 10:25AMPriority: High ----------From: Monette, Nicole Lever,Bill M.; Lawlor, Richard; Krista; Croft, John: PWC; Smith,Wendy:PWCSubject: FW: Chance to win $1000Date: May 14, 1998 9:20AMPriority: High ----------From: MacNeil, Nancy (TELECOMM) PWGSC; Drisdelle, Charlotte: PWGSC; Drisdelle, Claudette: PWGSC; Drisdelle,LeoPaul: IC; Drisdelle, Linda: CSC; Drissell, Debra: JUS; Lawlor,Richard:PWGSC; Thomas, Luvina: IC; Wambolt, Rosalee; Andrews, Diane: PWGSC;Andrews,Sharon: INACSubject: FW: Chance to win $1000Date: May 14, 1998 08:10AMPriority: HighDATE: May 14 08:54:31 1998 -03:00 relative to GMTIPMessageID: /GUID:7E29A57A10EBD1119F1900805F9A969CFROM: MacNeil, Nancy (TELECOMM) Monette, Nicole: PWGSCSavoie, Pauline: PWGSCDrisdelle, Charlotte: PWGSCDrisdelle, Claudette: PWGSCDrisdelle, LeoPaul: ICDrisdelle, Linda: CSCDrissell, Debra: JUSLawlor, Richard: PWGSCThomas, Luvina: ICWambolt, RosaleeAndrews, Diane: PWGSCAndrews, Sharon: INAC SUBJECT: FW: Chance to win $1000IMPORTANCE: highPRIORITY: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The 1000.00 should arrive the day after we receive our cheques forpayequity. Never one to be pessimistic, good luck and pass it on.Nancy MacNeilRegional Telecommunications OfficerFisheries & OceansMaritimes Region(902) 426-8807 ----------From: MacDonald, MarilynSent: Thursday, May 14, 1998 8:42 AM Dig;Barry Soper; Bert LeRue; Bob Mullett; Burry, Marilyn; ChristineMacKinnon;Dave English; Lauralee Farquhar; Les Barbour; Lin & Mavis; MaryLou Knechtel; Nora & Bill; Terry Hogan - UNB; Bedley, Dennis; Belair,Joceline; Boulton, Terryn; Burhoe, Meg; Chisholm, Ann; Davis, Vida;Fahie, Ruth; Gailey, Michelle; Hall, Tim; Hines, John; Lever,Margaret;MacCaull, Garry; MacDonald, Mary; Mahar, Dianne; McCracken,Katherine; Rippey, Danny; Robichaud, Paul; Thom, Paul; Terry Williams (Audrey'sneighbour); Russ AmiroSubject: FW: Chance to win $1000Importance: High From: MacCaull, GarrySent: Thursday, May 14, 1998 8:26 AM Cc: 'Carole MacCaull'; 'Coffill, Rolie'; 'Garry MacCaull'; 'HarleyMacCaull'; 'Lacey, Lawrence'; 'Tony MacCaull'; MacDonald,MarilynSubject: FW: Chance to win $1000Importance: High Hello people, got this on my e-mail so am forwarding it on for whatits worth. ----------From: Labour, EvelynSent: Thursday, May 14, 1998 8:03 AM Subject: FW: Chance to win $1000Importance: High Did you want to win? ----------From: Beatty, SheilaSent: Thursday, May 14, 1998 7:58 AM Subject: FW: Chance to win $1000Importance: High ----------From: Pattenden, ValerieSent: Thursday, May 14, 1998 7:51 AM Patricia; O'Brien, BillSubject: FW: Chance to win $1000Importance: High Hey, $1000 is as good to me as anyone else. Have a nice day. ----------From: LaViolette, GlendaSent: Wednesday, May 13, 1998 2:42 PM Valerie; Berthelot, Faye; Pattenden, Valerie; Baker, Cindy;Beals, Carol; Dugas, Theresa; Shay, Juanita; Morris, Patricia; Samson,Bob; Rockett, Paula; Trudeau, MaureenSubject: FW: Chance to win $1000Importance: High No sense passing up a chance to win. Read below it is said to beauthentic.??----------From: Farrell, WandaSent: Wednesday, May 13, 1998 2:27 PM Diane;Branton, Bob; Bowen, Don; Collier, Alania; Collier, Katherine;Covey, Michele; Crosman, Cora; Fennell, Jim; Donaldson, Gilbert; Fowler,Mark;Fanning, Paul; Campana, Steve; Bond, Shelley; Comeau, Peter; Frank,Ken; Halliday, Ralph; Hansen, Jon; Hebert-Sellars, Joan; Hurley,Peter;Jennings, David; Landry, Marilyn; LaViolette, Glenda; LeJeune, Dianne;Marks, Linda; McMillan, Jim; MacEachern, William; Mcruer, Jeff; Mohn,Robert; Reid, Jim; Morris, Dick; McGregor, Rita; Myers, Carl-Halifax;Rossignol, Pauline; Rosse, Ray; Shay, Juanita; Showell, Mark; Simon,James; Stobo, Wayne; Wilson, Scott; Young, Gerry; Zwanenburg, KeesSubject: FW: Chance to win $1000Importance: High See below, self explanatory! ----------From: McDonald, MelissaSent: Wednesday, May 13, 1998 1:35 PM McKeown, Dave; Walters, Lenora; Farrell, Wanda; Sinclair,Michael;XMAR- TOURGUIDE, BIO; Smith, Rod; Fiander, AnnaSubject: FW: Chance to win $1000Importance: High Melissa McDonaldSecretary, Regional Director's Office / Secretaire, Bureau duDirecteurregionalScience Branch, Maritimes Region / Direction des sciences, Region desMaritimes4th Floor, Polaris Bldg, BIO, B435 / 4e etage, Edifice Polaris, IOB,B435Ph# 902-426-3490 Fx# 902-426-8484 ----------From: Morgan, SharonSent: May 13, 1998 12:48 PM McDonald, Melissa; Eisner, Richard; Despres, Yves; Avery, Jane;Carney,Carla; Charlebois-Serdynska, Marie; Daigle, Marie; Gillam-Locke,Sharon;Myra, Valerie; Robichaud, Louise; Rumley, Betty; Shellnutt,Sheila;Simmons, Carol; Stobo, Nancy; Wentzell, CathySubject: FW: Chance to win $1000Importance: High Hi everyone. Those in "the know" at NHQ says this is for real, solet's hope so!----------From: Dubois, CelineSent: May 13, 1998 12:41 PM Milks, Sue; Bates, Joanne; Antoine Sioufi; Colin Park; Gary Boyd;Jennifer Vollrah; Ken Waterman; Mary Allan; Melanie Stethem; NicoleBaker;Serge Gosselin; Serge Labonte; Camille Campbell; Doug Geiling; GeoffPerry;Jill Bell; Sharon MorganSubject: FW: Chance to win $1000Importance: High Well, Amos Donohue says this has been checked out and it is for real.Read on.----------From: Duguay, JocelyneSent: Wednesday, May 13, 1998 11:30 AM Joceline; Dubois, Celine; Chouinard, Manon; Brisebois, Linda;Allan,Mary; Mooney, BridgetSubject: FW: Chance to win $1000Importance: High LET'S SEE IF WE ARE LUCKY----------From: Stubbins, SylvieSent: Wednesday, May 13, 1998 10:32 AM Christina; Ajersch, Mary; Chouinard, Manon; Parke, DianeSubject: FW: Chance to win $1000Importance: High----------From: Hotte, HeleneSent: May 13, 1998 9:02 AM Hegan, Dick; Bouffard, Nadia; Spencer, Helen; Steinbock, Robert; Horsey,Sofeia; Gravel, Madeleine; Picard, Francine; Leduc, Francine;Wright, Kim; Acres, Nancy; Lamadeleine, Chantal; Stubbins, Sylvie; Bolduc,Francois; Brazeau, Christine; Grenier, ChristineSubject: FW: Chance to win $1000Importance: High----------From: Donohue, AmosSent: Tuesday, May 12, 1998 4:16 PM F&O XNCR'; 'Faulkner, Gail: F&O'; Johnston, Sandy: F&O; 'Mcgivern,Brendan: FAIT'; 'Strauss, Howard: FAIT'; Allen, Chris; Collin,Bernard;Girouard, Chris; Hotte, Helene; James, Heather; Lyons, Judith;Mundell,Elizabeth; Penny, Ken; Steele, Paul; Stewart, Julie; Argue, Sandy;Zealand, Gordon; Gaye Applebaum; Edeson, William (LEGD); HARVEYMichael-JLO; Tellier, Alain: FAITSubject: Chance to win $1000Importance: High This is real.----------Subject: PLEASE READ! YOU'LL BE GLAD YOU DID! Please read and forward to as many friends as possible...I've checkedthis out and it's not a BS chain letter or something...Microsoft isgivingawayWin98 & $$$ if this reaches 1,000 people...duplicate entries don'tcount,though...So, please help & pass on...thanks --- here you go!!! FROM: *GatesBeta@microsoft.com ATTACH:*Tracklog@microsoft.com/Track883432/~TraceActive/On.html Hello Everyone, And thank you for signing up for my Beta Email Tracking Application or(BETA) for short. My name is Bill Gates. Here at Microsoft we have justcompiled an e-mail tracing program that tracks everyone to whom thismessage is forwarded to. It does this through an unique IP (InternetProtocol) address log book database. We are experimenting with thisandneed your help. Forward this to everyone you know and if it reaches1000people, everyone on the list will receive $1000 and a copy ofWindows98 atmy expense. Enjoy.Note: Duplicate entries will not be counted. You will be notified byemail with further instructions once this email has reached 1000people.Windows98 will not be shipped until it has been released to the generalpublic.Your friend,Bill Gates & The Microsoft Development Team. ---------------------------------------------------------------- James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Jun 1 20:52:52 1998 Subject: Re: Shapes for Cork John,I got the same info about a year ago. For building 4-6 rods a year, theylook expensive to me. 1000 rings ought to be more than I'll ever use. If Iremember correctly you have to give the a business name, like "Harry BoydRods." With my output, that's such a bad joke that I just had them send itto my wife's jewelry business.Like Bob, who also replied, I have cast rods with many different grips.I think A.J. caught the spirit of what I was saying... Not only what worksand how, but what "just looks right?" on a bamboo rod? Just because theWestern grips with uplock seats look right on plastic doesn't mean theyarebest for us, does it? I personally think a bamboo rod balances much betterwith a downlocking seat, so it fishes better. It also "just looks right"without an inch or so of the rod sticking out behind the reel.Thanks for all the replies, and let's here some more opinions. What doyou guys who sell rods use as your "standard" grip? Do you make thedecisionor the customer? I have a friend who wants me to build him a verylightweight rod with a GIANT grip,(2 weight with 1.25"+ largest diameter,71/2" long) and I'm hesitant to put my name on it, even though I'm not inthis Thanks again,HarryJOHN E COLE wrote: HarryI recently received a mailing from CORK SPECIALTIES, INC. that included27 full size drawings of cork handles. Have not used any of their corkyet, but they have some interesting prices. Let me know if you would liketo have their address. Also cannot tell you how these designs feel, sinceI am still planing my first rod. John Cole _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from thramer@presys.com Mon Jun 1 21:27:41 1998 Subject: Giant Grips Hi Harry,A mistake I made when I first started to sell rods was to let thecustomer design the rod. I consider it a bad trap. Dimes to doughnutholes you are more experienced in the use, function and design of cane.After dropping out of cane building for a couple of years due to thingslike building a rod EXACTLY as specified and then having the rodreturned BECAUSE it was exactly as ordered I recieved some invaluableadvice from Len Codella: build the rod as if it were for yourself. Thehonest committment to building the rod to fulfill your own 'mind eyeview' will show through. And it is YOUR name that will be on the rod fora very long time.I will admit to sometimes falling prey to the persuasive angler onoccasion but less often and more for the repeat buyer. Stick to yourguns and build the rod the way it was meant to be built.A.J.Thramer from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Jun 1 21:29:49 1998 Subject: Re: In Search Of: Guides (works of art) Christian,My name is Dave LeClair, I run a shop called The Fly and RodRoom. I build and sell components for split cane rods. The guides I sell are afine wire guide plated with an English Bronze Finish. This is a Dark Chocolate incolor. I carry them in sizes from 4/0 to 4. I also carry the matching tip tops from size 3.5 to 7 and carry matching stripper guides in 8mm, 10mm and 12mm. If you would like more information, e-mail me off list at LECLAIR123@aol.com Dave LeClair from selez@ibm.net Mon Jun 1 22:07:40 1998 (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA61810 for ;Tue, 2 Jun 1998 03:07:36GMT Subject: block plane identification I just was cleaning out my late grandfather's garage, he was a woodworking artisan, in hopes of finding some tools of use to buildmy first rod. Of not too great of surprise I found lots of jack planes that could be easily used with one hand(I'm 6'2" 165 lbs, giant here), in additionto a few Stanley block planes. One block plane is obviously a 220 (as it is marked). The ohter I guess it is either a 60 1/2or a 9 1/2; it has an adjustable throat, but the blade is at a lower angle than the 220. There is a brass wheel on the rear I've dissassembled the whole thingand can't see any model #, any idea how I can know for certain? I just finished reading Jack Howell's "The Lovely Reed" and he'sfairly straightforward in stating the 60 1/2 is useless dueto the angle being too low. However, this last months issue of TheBamboo Fly Rod has an article on used block planes, and references a fewmakers who solely use the 60 1/2. Does anyone have input on the 60 1/2 (if indeed I identify thismysterious plane as such), am I in for another$50 bucks on a block plane (plus Hock blades), or is the 220 plus a 60 1/2 (Hell, lets just say it is), and a 1 hand jack plane,ok get started with? (plus Hock blades of course). Please, no comments about scrapping planes altogether and goingwith milling machine. Cordially,Bill Seleznoff from ragnarig@integrityol.com Mon Jun 1 23:48:43 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A5E822A0274; Mon, 01 Jun 1998 21:56:08 PDT Subject: Re: Shapes for Cork AJ Thramer wrote: Superfine, looks sharp, fishes BAD!Hammer , Looks weird, they don't sell, extremely comfortableRitz, Looks weird, they don't sell, very comfortableGarrison, ARitz with a round nose, they tend to be thinner to lookbetter, the thinner they are the worse they workWells(Western) Can be very comfortable to fish but they have to be atleast 13 rings and preferably 14-15.Reverse half wells, If built full bodied extremely comfotable, they sellwell and they look goodCigar If built full as above they are good as a RHW, looks Eastern, morepleasing with a DL seat I thinkA.J.Thramer Dear AJ Have to agree with you on every count, and add my two cents: Cent one; my grips tend to be a little on the large side, because that'swhat feels good to me Cent B; full wells is definitely my favorite as it seems to be not as easilythrown out of my hand when casting Davy from saweiss@flash.net Tue Jun 2 00:02:11 1998 Subject: Re: block plane identification Bill,to identify your plane trywww.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0.htmThis site has extensive info on Stanley planes.Steve Weiss from ragnarig@integrityol.com Tue Jun 2 00:06:45 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id AA228FA0298; Mon, 01 Jun 1998 22:14:10 PDT Subject: Re: salmon rod taper wanted boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01BD8DAB.4EB5C020" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BD8DAB.4EB5C020 Dear John, Reed, Tom, John, Doug, Carsten and all who answered my appeal=concerning a good taper for a crip' steelheader. First off, thanks much for your helpful and insightful responses! I =think I'll be better able to formulate a plan with all your suggestions =in mind. Reed- I had actually started work on Chris' "Big Dog" before my last =bout of arm-lameness made me drop-kick my block plane. (Yes, it did, =very much) As I am able, I will try and bring those sections to = Another hair-brained scheme I had, with the inspired contribution of =John Cooper, was to add an extra butt section to a nine-footer, =possibly using a gonzo ferrule :-) I'm looking in the direction of an =old invalided Fishkill boat rod which has the unmistakable look of a =volunteer. Again, thanks to all,Davy ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BD8DAB.4EB5C020 Dear John, Reed, Tom, John, Doug,= steelheader. First off, thanks much for your = all your suggestions in mind. Reed- I had actually started workon = "Big Dog" before my last bout of arm-lameness made me = Another hair-brained scheme Ihad, = direction of an old invalided Fishkill boat rod which has the = of a volunteer. Again, thanks toall,Davy ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BD8DAB.4EB5C020-- from ragnarig@integrityol.com Tue Jun 2 00:16:13 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id AC5B54B01D0; Mon, 01 Jun 1998 22:23:39 PDT Subject: Re: Giant Grips -----Original Message----- Subject: Giant Grips Hi Harry,A mistake I made when I first started to sell rods was to let thecustomer design the rod. I consider it a bad trap. Dimes to doughnutholes you are more experienced in the use, function and design of cane.After dropping out of cane building for a couple of years due to thingslike building a rod EXACTLY as specified and then having the rodreturned BECAUSE it was exactly as ordered I recieved some invaluableadvice from Len Codella: build the rod as if it were for yourself. Thehonest committment to building the rod to fulfill your own 'mind eyeview' will show through. And it is YOUR name that will be on the rod fora very long time.I will admit to sometimes falling prey to the persuasive angler onoccasion but less often and more for the repeat buyer. Stick to yourguns and build the rod the way it was meant to be built.A.J.Thramer Dear AJ Boy, you just nailed it shut! I learned this lesson building instrumentsmany years ago (in Eugene, matter of fact) and, in fact, if anybody wants amandolin with a "really thick neck" I've got a deal for you. My feeling is that, if they come to you, they either like the way you see todo it- or they've mistaken you for somebody who just looks like you. Davy from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Jun 2 00:23:09 1998 Tue, 2 Jun 1998 13:22:53 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: block plane identification I just finished reading Jack Howell's "The Lovely Reed" and he'sfairly straightforward in stating the 60 1/2 is useless dueto the angle being too low. However, this last months issue of TheBamboo Fly Rod has an article on used block planes, and references a fewmakers who solely use the 60 1/2. The angle of the 60 1/2 is too low for rapid cane removal, however I've been using one since starting and as long as you keep the throat opening small and don't try taking to much cane on each stroke the 60 1/2 works fine. If that's what you have, use it. If you needed to buy one get the 9 1/2.Apart from the scraper which is dispencable that's all you need as far as planes goes.Forget the block plane but get a Hock iron. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from flytier@worldonline.nl Tue Jun 2 07:01:09 1998 with SMTP (PP); Mon, 1 Jun 1998 17:13:00 +0200 Subject: Re: In Search Of: Guides (works of art) On 1 Jun 98, at 2:00, Christian THALACKER wrote: The first cane rod is nearing completion ...My rodmaking teacher normally buys his guides from Angler's Workshop. I would liketo surprise him with something a special. Anyone out there who can help, much appreciated ;-)Christian, I understand that Tom Moran in the UK is producing rather classy looking snakes... Cheers,Hans from Cmwall@aol.com Tue Jun 2 07:54:53 1998 Subject: Re: block plane identification Corn planting for McDonalds from dhaftel@att.com Tue Jun 2 09:01:24 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2 sol2) (5.5.1960.3) Subject: RE: block plane identification Bill, While I certainly do NOT profess to be an expert, my limited experiencewiththe Stanley 60 1/2 plane has, so far been good. I do agree with the smallthroat gap idea though. If you're not in a hurry to remove cane (as youshouldn't be) the 60 1/2 works just fine. I have had no problems withlifting of the nodes like so many others have warned. I guess thecombination of the small throat opening and the edge of my blade haseliminated this condition. I dare say that I even think it goes over thecane a little easier than the 9 1/2 (yes, I have both). I strongly recommend the Hock blades too! I use a "compound" edge of 25Ÿand 30Ÿ on my blades, and the Hocks hold it better that the blades provided the list can help me out here... I know there are variations betweenEnglish and American Stanleys, but I think they are mainly with the slotdimension in the blade. Generally, the 60 1/2 is narrower than the 9 1/2.I'm in my office right now and can't give you the body measurements, buttheblade width of the 60 1/2 is 1 3/8" and the 91/2 is 1 5/8". I know thatbecause I made a mistake and ordered the wrong Hock blade for my 60 1/2. Onboth of my planes the blades' slots are 5/8" wide. The blade angle(relative to horizontal) on the 60 1/2 is 12Ÿ or 13Ÿ (not sure) and about20Ÿ or 21Ÿ on the 9 1/2. BTW: As far as I know, the 220 is just a less expensive version of the 91/2 without the adjustable throat... Right?? I know the modeldesignationshave changed a few times too. It has (more recently) something to do withStanley's ISO 9000 certification. I believe this is reflected in the modelnumbers of their newer planes. Just something else to confuse us! I hopeIhaven't further confused you (or myself!). Anyway... Welcome to a great hobby... Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: selez@ibm.net [SMTP:selez@ibm.net]Sent: Monday, June 01, 1998 11:05 PM Subject: block plane identification I just was cleaning out my late grandfather's garage, he was a woodworking artisan, in hopes of finding some tools of use to buildmy first rod. Of not too great of surprise I found lots of jack planes that could be easily used with one hand(I'm 6'2" 165 lbs, giant here), in additionto a few Stanley block planes. One block plane is obviously a 220 (as it is marked). The ohter I guess it is either a 60 1/2or a 9 1/2; it has an adjustable throat, but the blade is at a lower angle than the 220. There is a brass wheel on the rear I've dissassembled the whole thingand can't see any model #, any idea how I can know for certain? I just finished reading Jack Howell's "The Lovely Reed" and he'sfairly straightforward in stating the 60 1/2 is useless dueto the angle being too low. However, this last months issue of TheBamboo Fly Rod has an article on used block planes, and references a fewmakers who solely use the 60 1/2. Does anyone have input on the 60 1/2 (if indeed I identify thismysterious plane as such), am I in for another$50 bucks on a block plane (plus Hock blades), or is the 220 plus a 60 1/2 (Hell, lets just say it is), and a 1 hand jack plane,ok get started with? (plus Hock blades of course). Please, no comments about scrapping planes altogether and goingwith milling machine. Cordially,Bill Seleznoff from dryfly@erols.com Tue Jun 2 09:39:10 1998 Subject: Re: Giant Grips Amen! A.J.Thramer wrote: Hi Harry,A mistake I made when I first started to sell rods was to let thecustomer design the rod. I consider it a bad trap. Dimes to doughnutholes you are more experienced in the use, function and design of cane.After dropping out of cane building for a couple of years due to thingslike building a rod EXACTLY as specified and then having the rodreturned BECAUSE it was exactly as ordered I recieved some invaluableadvice from Len Codella: build the rod as if it were for yourself. Thehonest committment to building the rod to fulfill your own 'mind eyeview' will show through. And it is YOUR name that will be on the rod fora very long time.I will admit to sometimes falling prey to the persuasive angler onoccasion but less often and more for the repeat buyer. Stick to yourguns and build the rod the way it was meant to be built.A.J.Thramer from dryfly@erols.com Tue Jun 2 10:08:38 1998 Subject: Re: Shapes for Cork Harry I once overheard someone at a fishing show who was doing a castingdemonstrationcommenting about the advantages of uplock seats. He felt that the uplockseatmoves the reel closer to the hand and makes the rods easier to cast. Afterusingmore screw uplock seats and uplock ring seats over the years I tend toagree. Itseems funny to cast a rod now with the grip and the reel far apart. Ireallythink this is more important for making longer casts on longer rods withlines 5or greater, which doesn't apply to majority of bamboo rods. Payne was abigproponent of the uplock seat. Another advantage (I like) or disadvantageofuplock seats is that you reduce the overall length of the grip and reel seatby1/2". One additional small advantage of uplock seats is that the extralength ofthe real seat barrel can be used as a fighting butt if needed. After all thisIwill tell you that I love small cap and ring seats and cigar grips on 7 footorless cane rods. I guess I'm up to $.04 on this subject.;-)Bob. Harry Boyd wrote: John,I got the same info about a year ago. For building 4-6 rods a year,theylook expensive to me. 1000 rings ought to be more than I'll ever use. If Iremember correctly you have to give the a business name, like "HarryBoydRods." With my output, that's such a bad joke that I just had them senditto my wife's jewelry business.Like Bob, who also replied, I have cast rods with many different grips.I think A.J. caught the spirit of what I was saying... Not only what worksand how, but what "just looks right?" on a bamboo rod? Just because theWestern grips with uplock seats look right on plastic doesn't mean theyarebest for us, does it? I personally think a bamboo rod balances muchbetterwith a downlocking seat, so it fishes better. It also "just looks right"without an inch or so of the rod sticking out behind the reel.Thanks for all the replies, and let's here some more opinions. What doyou guys who sell rods use as your "standard" grip? Do you make thedecisionor the customer? I have a friend who wants me to build him a verylightweight rod with a GIANT grip,(2 weight with 1.25"+ largestdiameter, 71/2" long) and I'm hesitant to put my name on it, even though I'm not inthis Thanks again,HarryJOHN E COLE wrote: HarryI recently received a mailing from CORK SPECIALTIES, INC. thatincluded27 full size drawings of cork handles. Have not used any of their corkyet, but they have some interesting prices. Let me know if you wouldliketo have their address. Also cannot tell you how these designs feel,sinceI am still planing my first rod. John Cole _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Jun 2 10:11:41 1998 Subject: New Appreciation for Garrison Tapers Last Saturday I was introduced to a fly called a soft hackle.It's a wetfly with a sparse collar of partridge and without a wing.I had been using the 7' Sir D Favorite with dry flies, and caught only one all morning. Right about lunchtime an older gentleman I was fishing with gives me a soft hackle and shows me how to fish it. I immediately caught three wild rainbows. I went on to catch about a dozen throughout the afternoon until the evening hatch started, and I switched back to a dry fly. Fishing a soft hackle involves a lot of loop mending the line but not a lot of casting, what I imagine the old style wetfly fishing is like. This style of fishing is between dry fly fishing and nymphing, but closer to dry fly fishing. The reason I say this is the soft hackle or wet fly is only an inch or two under the water and you pretty much know where your fly is, although you can't usually see it, but you can tell when the fish is taking your fly since the fish has to come up from underneath, take the fly and turn back down. It usually breaks the surface at that point,so you know when to set the hook. I have been using The Sir D Favorite for dry fly fishing and dead drifting sunken nymphs, and never felt the need for a longer,slower rod. Last Saturday fishing the soft hackle I felt the need Garrison taper! Before fishing the soft hackle if you would have asked me what I thought about Garrison tapers, I would have said, "Some people like them, I don't have much use for them."Now I see that they do have a use. The first rod I made is aGarrison taper, and I haven't used it much. It's going to get useda lot more from now on. Darryl Hayashida from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Jun 2 11:01:26 1998 Subject: Got a Problem Guys, A nice lady @ the Trout Unlimited auction last week and asked me to builda rod for her husband. Her husband is a friend and a great guy. He's beenfishing a with fly rods about 40 years and has developed a distinctivecasting style. He operates a building framing business and likely fromusing a hammer all day, his forward stroke is a lot more aggressive thanhis back stroke. Further, he's a classic type A personality always on thego @ high rates of speed. Presently he owns several graphite rods that heuses and enjoys. The question is: Does anyone have a taper for a 7>8' rod that is middlingfast for a 5 wt. line. I know that some of the tapers I build leave himcold as they are some what slower and more deliberate. Help, Don from GROMBACHERA@phibred.com Tue Jun 2 11:12:05 1998 11:12:04 -0500 via smap (4.1) Subject: RE: Got a Problem Don, My Clark is an 8ft 2pc 6wght. You have seen it. It is quite fast. Ican bring it out to you if you'd like. I was out last week with Wally, Lance, and Mike Dell. The 5wght 7ft9inthat Mike had was a fantastic casting rod and elegant to boot. Nicerods, you make.Alberta Al ----------From: Don Andersen[SMTP:dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca]Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 1998 3:32 AM Subject: Got a Problem Guys, A nice lady @ the Trout Unlimited auction last week and asked me tobuilda rod for her husband. Her husband is a friend and a great guy. He'sbeenfishing a with fly rods about 40 years and has developed a distinctivecasting style. He operates a building framing business and likely fromusing a hammer all day, his forward stroke is a lot more aggressivethanhis back stroke. Further, he's a classic type A personality always onthego @ high rates of speed. Presently he owns several graphite rods thatheuses and enjoys. The question is: Does anyone have a taper for a 7>8' rod that ismiddlingfast for a 5 wt. line. I know that some of the tapers I build leavehimcold as they are some what slower and more deliberate. Help, Don from saweiss@flash.net Tue Jun 2 11:20:44 1998 Subject: Re: New Appreciation for Garrison Tapers -----Original Message----- Subject: New Appreciation for Garrison Tapers Last Saturday I was introduced to a fly called a soft hackle.It's a wetfly with a sparse collar of partridge and without a wing. Darryl,I frequently use wet flies here on our New Mexico mountain streams,usually hair caddis or a royal humpy. I tie it to the bend of the dry fly with about16"of tippet. The La Fontaine emergent caddis pupa is also excellent fishedthis way. The wets are hard to see, so the dry acts as an indicator, anattracter, and as a dry fly, so you will get responses to both flies.A softer cast is needed for a two-fly presentation to open the loop toavoidtangles, as well as to keep the wet fly wet. Steve Weiss from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Tue Jun 2 11:25:28 1998 post.interalpha.net(8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id RAA29555 for ;Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:34:22+0100 Subject: Re: Got a Problem At 09:32 02/06/98, you wrote:Guys, A nice lady @ the Trout Unlimited auction last week and asked me tobuilda rod for her husband. Her husband is a friend and a great guy. He's beenfishing a with fly rods about 40 years and has developed a distinctivecasting style. He operates a building framing business and likely fromusing a hammer all day, his forward stroke is a lot more aggressive thanhis back stroke. Further, he's a classic type A personality always on thego @ high rates of speed. Presently he owns several graphite rods that heuses and enjoys. The question is: Does anyone have a taper for a 7>8' rod that is middlingfast for a 5 wt. line. I know that some of the tapers I build leave himcold as they are some what slower and more deliberate. Help, Don Yup - the Hardy C.C.de France 8' is exactly that. I have one that is just (only just) ready for its first coat of varnish. Ifyou want the tapers, I'' mic it up for you, and weigh it to see if it fitsyour client's requirements. There again, you may prefer a classic American taper, which will bebetter- known to someone who's opinion is understood, and reliable. John Cooper from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Tue Jun 2 11:37:26 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Got a Problem I saw a twisted rod mad by T. Smithwick and Merritt Lake that isprobably just what you are looking for, a great 5 wt that puts out aloooooong line. ----------From: Don Andersen[SMTP:dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca] Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 1998 2:32 AM Subject: Got a Problem Guys, A nice lady @ the Trout Unlimited auction last week and asked me tobuilda rod for her husband. Her husband is a friend and a great guy. He'sbeenfishing a with fly rods about 40 years and has developed a distinctivecasting style. He operates a building framing business and likely fromusing a hammer all day, his forward stroke is a lot more aggressivethanhis back stroke. Further, he's a classic type A personality always onthego @ high rates of speed. Presently he owns several graphite rods thatheuses and enjoys. The question is: Does anyone have a taper for a 7>8' rod that ismiddlingfast for a 5 wt. line. I know that some of the tapers I build leavehimcold as they are some what slower and more deliberate. Help, Don from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Jun 2 12:14:59 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA224567681; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 10:14:41 -0700 Subject: RE: Shapes for Cork I put a 7 1/2" Phillipe style grip on an 8' 3 piece rod that weighed in at about 4 1/2 oz. It looks to be about 2 or 3 rings too long and appears to large in diameter, but feels righ and balances well when casting. I figure when I fall in over my head it can double as a bouyancy device. If you relax your hand between thrusts when casting I find I have more control with a larger diameter grip. I've never dropped a fly rod as far as you know. I prefer the look of 12 to 13 ring cigar shaped grips on small rods, and like to cast them also. I recently fished a 6' rod with a 12 ring cigar grip and found my thumb up on the bamboo at times. It didn't affect my casting, and may have improved it. I'm willing to try anything for a chance at improvement. Finally, the Phillipson style "Hammer" grip isn't as bad as I had heard. The grip felt fine and my hand was relaxed when casting, this with a 9' 5 5/8 oz. rod. Many that I have talked to don't like it due to the angles. The Granger style grip (Western?) looks good and feels right also. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Jun 2 12:24:03 1998 Subject: Re: Got a Problem In a message dated 6/2/98 4:02:30 PM, you wrote: 8' rod that is middlingfast for a 5 wt. line. I know that some of the tapers I build leave himcold as they are some what slower and more deliberate. Don - I would look into the Dickerson tapers. I have never built one, buthavemeasured a couple. There seems to be a bit of variation, so I can't tell youwhere to get a definitive taper. Also, If you have access to 5 strip forms, let me know. Bill Fink has acoupleof great fast tapers. from thramer@presys.com Tue Jun 2 12:24:20 1998 Subject: Re: Got a Problem Don Andersen wrote: Guys, A nice lady @ the Trout Unlimited auction last week and asked me tobuilda rod for her husband. Her husband is a friend and a great guy. He's beenfishing a with fly rods about 40 years and has developed a distinctivecasting style. He operates a building framing business and likely fromusing a hammer all day, his forward stroke is a lot more aggressive thanhis back stroke. Further, he's a classic type A personality always on thego @ high rates of speed. Presently he owns several graphite rods that heuses and enjoys. The question is: Does anyone have a taper for a 7>8' rod that is middlingfast for a 5 wt. line. I know that some of the tapers I build leave himcold as they are some what slower and more deliberate. Help, DonHi Don,This seems to be a perfect use for a Terry Ackland taper. If no luckdigging one up( I have a few of his tapers but would consider it badform to post without his OK). I have a set of tapers that are VERY fastcalled the DX2 series. I don't like rods that fast but if you need thattaper let me know.A.J.Thramer from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Tue Jun 2 16:42:08 1998 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id JAA15302 for ;Wed, 3 Jun 1998 09:41:53+1200 Subject: Re: Got a Problem John, Sorry to put you to the trouble but I would really like a copy of this taperif you could mic it for me Thanks in anticipation Iank At 05:23 PM 2/06/98 +0100, you wrote:At 09:32 02/06/98, you wrote:Guys, A nice lady @ the Trout Unlimited auction last week and asked me tobuilda rod for her husband. Her husband is a friend and a great guy. He's beenfishing a with fly rods about 40 years and has developed a distinctivecasting style. He operates a building framing business and likely fromusing a hammer all day, his forward stroke is a lot more aggressive thanhis back stroke. Further, he's a classic type A personality always on thego @ high rates of speed. Presently he owns several graphite rods thatheuses and enjoys. The question is: Does anyone have a taper for a 7>8' rod that is middlingfast for a 5 wt. line. I know that some of the tapers I build leave himcold as they are some what slower and more deliberate. Help, Don Yup - the Hardy C.C.de France 8' is exactly that. I have one that is just (only just) ready for its first coat of varnish. Ifyou want the tapers, I'' mic it up for you, and weigh it to see if it fitsyour client's requirements. There again, you may prefer a classic American taper, which will bebetter- known to someone who's opinion is understood, and reliable. John Cooper Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz from channer@hubwest.com Tue Jun 2 18:36:05 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id ACADB550202; Tue, 02 Jun 1998 17:37:17 MDT Subject: Re: New Appreciation for Garrison Tapers At 11:10 AM 6/2/98 EDT, you wrote: Last Saturday I was introduced to a fly called a soft hackle.It's a wetfly with a sparse collar of partridge and without a wing.I had been using the 7' Sir D Favorite with dry flies, and caught only one all morning. Right about lunchtime an older gentleman I was fishing with gives me a soft hackle and shows me how to fish it. I immediately caught three wild rainbows. I went on to catch about a dozen throughout the afternoon until the evening hatch started, and I switched back to a dry fly. Fishing a soft hackle involves a lot of loop mending the line but not a lot of casting, what I imagine the old style wetfly fishing is like. This style of fishing is between dry fly fishing and nymphing, but closer to dry fly fishing. The reason I say this is the soft hackle or wet fly is only an inch or two under the water and you pretty much know where your fly is, although you can't usually see it, but you can tell when the fish is taking your fly since the fish has to come up from underneath, take the fly and turn back down. It usually breaks the surface at that point,so you know when to set the hook. I have been using The Sir D Favorite for dry fly fishing and dead drifting sunken nymphs, and never felt the need for a longer,slower rod. Last Saturday fishing the soft hackle I felt the need Garrison taper! Before fishing the soft hackle if you would have asked me what I thought about Garrison tapers, I would have said, "Some people like them, I don't have much use for them."Now I see that they do have a use. The first rod I made is aGarrison taper, and I haven't used it much. It's going to get useda lot more from now on. Darryl Hayashida Darryl,et All;The rod I fish with 95% of the time is a Garrison 212 5wt., the first rod Imade. I use it on the San Juan to mainly fish tiny dry flies, altho I willresort to an emerger if they absolutely won't come to the top.I have beenreading all the commentary on the list for about a year now, and I haveread thru all the archives and I think maybe I didn't get the taper right.My rod casts just fine for me( I can't seem to get the hang of tossingnymphs with weight and an indicator, tho). I find that I can cast up toabout 30-35 feet with just my wrist and if I need to get way out to arising fish that is 45-50 feet away, all I have to do is lock my wrist andfire it out. I had a friend that guides watch me cast and he suggestedsticking the butt of the rod in my shirt sleeve, it made that so-calledsoft/slow Garrison taper rod practically snap off the fly on the fore-cast.Am I missing something? or does the action(speed) of a rod depend tosome extent on how you use it? John Channer from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Jun 2 18:51:56 1998 head.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA24126; Tue, 2 Jun1998 19:51:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Got a Problem DonLook to Bill Fink's 5-siders - they will suit him fine.Chris On Tue, 02 Jun 1998 09:32:28, Don Andersen wrote: Guys, A nice lady @ the Trout Unlimited auction last week and asked me tobuilda rod for her husband. Her husband is a friend and a great guy. He's beenfishing a with fly rods about 40 years and has developed a distinctivecasting style. He operates a building framing business and likely fromusing a hammer all day, his forward stroke is a lot more aggressive thanhis back stroke. Further, he's a classic type A personality always on thego @ high rates of speed. Presently he owns several graphite rods that heuses and enjoys. The question is: Does anyone have a taper for a 7>8' rod that is middlingfast for a 5 wt. line. I know that some of the tapers I build leave himcold as they are some what slower and more deliberate. Help, Don from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Jun 2 21:08:41 1998 Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:08:28 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Shapes for Cork Harry I once overheard someone at a fishing show who was doing a castingdemonstrationcommenting about the advantages of uplock seats. He felt that theuplock seatmoves the reel closer to the hand and makes the rods easier to cast. After usingmore screw uplock seats and uplock ring seats over the years I tend toagree. Itseems funny to cast a rod now with the grip and the reel far apart. Ireally I don't much like the look of an uplock seat but I think they tend not to undo during use so much. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Jun 2 21:10:14 1998 Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:10:05 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: New Appreciation for Garrison Tapers Daryl, sounds like you have an appreciation for paras. Tony Last Saturday I was introduced to a fly called a soft hackle.It's a wetfly with a sparse collar of partridge and without a wing.I had been using the 7' Sir D Favorite with dry flies, and caught only one all morning. Right about lunchtime an older gentleman I was fishing with gives me a soft hackle and shows me how to fish it. I immediately caught three wild rainbows. I went on to catch about a dozen throughout the afternoon until the evening hatch started, and I switched back to a dry fly. Fishing a soft hackle involves a lot of loop mending the line but not a lot of casting, what I imagine the old style wetfly fishing is like. This style of fishing is between dry fly fishing and nymphing, but closer to dry fly fishing. The reason I say this is the soft hackle or wet fly is only an inch or two under the water and you pretty much know where your fly is, although you can't usually see it, but you can tell when the fish is taking your fly since the fish has to come up from underneath, take the fly and turn back down. It usually breaks the surface at that point,so you know when to set the hook. I have been using The Sir D Favorite for dry fly fishing and dead drifting sunken nymphs, and never felt the need for a longer,slower rod. Last Saturday fishing the soft hackle I felt the need Garrison taper! Before fishing the soft hackle if you would have asked me what I thought about Garrison tapers, I would have said, "Some people like them, I don't have much use for them."Now I see that they do have a use. The first rod I made is aGarrison taper, and I haven't used it much. It's going to get useda lot more from now on. Darryl Hayashida /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from emiller257@dataflo.net Tue Jun 2 21:40:35 1998 wddataflo.dataflo.net(8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA08940 for ;Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:41:07 Subject: Re: New Appreciation for Garrison Tapers john channer wrote: At 11:10 AM 6/2/98 EDT, you wrote: Last Saturday I was introduced to a fly called a soft hackle.It's a wetfly with a sparse collar of partridge and without a wing.I had been using the 7' Sir D Favorite with dry flies, and caughtonly one all morning. Right about lunchtime an older gentlemanI was fishing with gives me a soft hackle and shows me how tofish it. I immediately caught three wild rainbows. I went on to catchabout a dozen throughout the afternoon until the evening hatchstarted, and I switched back to a dry fly. Fishing a soft hackleinvolves a lot of loop mending the line but not a lot of casting, whatI imagine the old style wetfly fishing is like. This style of fishing isbetween dry fly fishing and nymphing, but closer to dry fly fishing.The reason I say this is the soft hackle or wet fly is only an inch ortwo under the water and you pretty much know where your fly is,although you can't usually see it, but you can tell when the fish istaking your fly since the fish has to come up from underneath, takethe fly and turn back down. It usually breaks the surface at that point,so you know when to set the hook. I have been using The Sir D Favorite for dry fly fishing and deaddrifting sunken nymphs, and never felt the need for a longer,slower rod. Last Saturday fishing the soft hackle I felt the need Garrison taper! Before fishing the soft hackle if you would haveasked me what I thought about Garrison tapers, I would havesaid, "Some people like them, I don't have much use for them."Now I see that they do have a use. The first rod I made is aGarrison taper, and I haven't used it much. It's going to get useda lot more from now on. Darryl Hayashida Darryl,et All;The rod I fish with 95% of the time is a Garrison 212 5wt., the first rodImade. I use it on the San Juan to mainly fish tiny dry flies, altho I willresort to an emerger if they absolutely won't come to the top.I have beenreading all the commentary on the list for about a year now, and I haveread thru all the archives and I think maybe I didn't get the taper right.My rod casts just fine for me( I can't seem to get the hang of tossingnymphs with weight and an indicator, tho). I find that I can cast up toabout 30-35 feet with just my wrist and if I need to get way out to arising fish that is 45-50 feet away, all I have to do is lock my wrist andfire it out. I had a friend that guides watch me cast and he suggestedsticking the butt of the rod in my shirt sleeve, it made that so-calledsoft/slow Garrison taper rod practically snap off the fly on the fore-cast.Am I missing something? or does the action(speed) of a rod dependtosome extent on how you use it? John ChannerJohn, I think it depends on how you made it. The flamed rodsI have cast recently all seem to have a fairly fast action especially compared to older cane rods. I think the attention to moisture elimination is evident. Ed M. from selez@ibm.net Tue Jun 2 21:41:53 1998 (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA94184 for ;Wed, 3 Jun 1998 02:41:50GMT Subject: Re: block plane identification Dr. Steven A. Weiss wrote: Bill,to identify your plane trywww.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0.htmThis site has extensive info on Stanley planes.Steve Weiss Thanks Steve! very helpful. Bill from hokkaido_flyfisher@yahoo.com Tue Jun 2 21:59:12 1998 Subject: Re: In Search Of: Guides (works of art) Dear Hans, When I was searching to buy a cane rod ... not over, just temporarily postponed ;-) ... I had a nice exchange withs TM and he wrote me then that he was thinking of gettingsome titanium or something guides ... will yoube talking with him in the near future? If so,could you ask what the status is (and whetherhe'd sell two sets, how much, etc.) Cheers, Christian ---Hans Weilenmann wrote: I understand that Tom Moran in the UK is producing rather classy looking snakes... Cheers,Hans==Mr. Christian THALACKER Otaru University of CommerceMatsugae 2-6-30 Otaru International Center #253047-0022 Hokkaido JAPAN Midori 3-5-21 Otaru047 Hokkaido JAPAN Hokkaido_Flyfisher@yahoo.com or thalackerce@hotmail.comhttp://members.tripod.com/~Nijimasu/O.html_________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Jun 2 22:41:47 1998 Subject: RE: Got a Problem At 11:11 02/06/98 -0500, you wrote:Don, My Clark is an 8ft 2pc 6wght. You have seen it. It is quite fast. Ican bring it out to you if you'd like. I was out last week with Wally, Lance, and Mike Dell. The 5wght 7ft9inthat Mike had was a fantastic casting rod and elegant to boot. Nicerods, you make.Alberta Al Al, That would be great - I do recall seeing the rod and would love to get ataper from it to compare to what I do now. When are you available? DonPS - thanx for the complement on the rod. Hope Mike is pleased. from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Jun 2 22:41:58 1998 Subject: Re: [1] Got a Problem Don wrote; The question is: Does anyone have a taper for a 7>8' rod that is middlingfast for a 5 wt. line. I know that some of the tapers I build leave himcold as they are some what slower and more deliberate. Help, DonHi Don,This seems to be a perfect use for a Terry Ackland taper. If no luckdigging one up( I have a few of his tapers but would consider it badform to post without his OK). I have a set of tapers that are VERY fastcalled the DX2 series. I don't like rods that fast but if you need thattaper let me know.A.J.Thramer AJ, I would certainly like to see the Terry Ackland taper but like you feelthat I should get permission prior to using it on a rod. Terry seems todisappeared again. His ins and outs are good entertainment. Perhaps I'llgive him a shout. Got his email address somewhere. And I certainly would like to see the DX2 you spoke off. This guy is a"quick" caster and I know that the slower tapers aren't for him. Thanx for your help, Don from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Jun 2 22:42:00 1998 Subject: Re: [1] Got a Problem At 17:23 02/06/98 +0100, Don wrote:At 09:32 02/06/98, you wrote:Guys, The question is: Does anyone have a taper for a 7>8' rod that is middlingfast for a 5 wt. line. I know that some of the tapers I build leave himcold as they are some what slower and more deliberate. Help, Don And John responded; Yup - the Hardy C.C.de France 8' is exactly that. I have one that is just (only just) ready for its first coat of varnish. Ifyou want the tapers, I'' mic it up for you, and weigh it to see if it fitsyour client's requirements. There again, you may prefer a classic American taper, which will bebetter- known to someone who's opinion is understood, and reliable. John Cooper John, As a Canadian, I come from varied stock and owe allegiance to onlyCanada.If the taper I like comes from Bulgaria, I really don't care. I was reallyhoping that someone had a Hardy taper. The ones I've cast are quite quickand may be just the ticket for this guy. I've only measured a couple ofHardy's and found that some of their workmanship was either fabulous orso-so leaving me confused about what the taper was really supposed to be. Would you send me the Hardy CC de France 8'er. And is it for a 5 wt. line? Don from ragnarig@integrityol.com Tue Jun 2 22:46:06 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A89F1EE01BC; Tue, 02 Jun 1998 20:53:03 PDT Subject: Re: Got a Problem Yup - the Hardy C.C.de France 8' is exactly that. I have one that is just (only just) ready for its first coat of varnish. Ifyou want the tapers, I'' mic it up for you, and weigh it to see if it fitsyour client's requirements. There again, you may prefer a classic American taper, which will bebetter- known to someone who's opinion is understood, and reliable. John If you wouldn't mind, please post that taper to the list, as I'd definitelylike to see it mydurnself. Davy PS The parcel is on the way from ragnarig@integrityol.com Tue Jun 2 23:30:25 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A3054180238; Tue, 02 Jun 1998 21:37:25 PDT Subject: Re: New Appreciation for Garrison Tapers Dear Darryl I'm delighted to learn that you've discovered my favorite kind of fishing!You are on the threshhold of discovering why several of us cherish our old"soft" nine-footers so much; there's just no better way to get atwo-or-three fly cast to the area you want without fear of tangling themallup in the much- vaunted "tight loop". As far as I am concerned, the all- time guru of soft-hackle fishing isSylvester Nemes, who has written about three excellent books on thesubject.I heartily recommend any of them- I mean ALL of them- to you. His style is intelligent and straightforward and he has more "fish sense"than any writer I've ever read. He will, clearly and concisely, tune you into the single most effective and versatile method of enticing trout to ahook that I know of. Enjoy!Davy from flyfisher@nextdim.com Tue Jun 2 23:47:43 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id A3C91D801D2; Tue, 02 Jun 1998 21:40:41 PDT Subject: Re: New Appreciation for Garrison Tapers How right you are Davy, soft rods and soft hackles seem to be made foreachother. The Garrison #212 is a great taper.Dell Coppock,"IN THE GREAT NORTHWEST"http://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail flyfisher@nextdim.com -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: New Appreciation for Garrison Tapers Dear Darryl I'm delighted to learn that you've discovered my favorite kind of fishing!You are on the threshhold of discovering why several of us cherish our old"soft" nine-footers so much; there's just no better way to get atwo-or-three fly cast to the area you want without fear of tangling themallup in the much- vaunted "tight loop". As far as I am concerned, the all- time guru of soft-hackle fishing isSylvester Nemes, who has written about three excellent books on thesubject.I heartily recommend any of them- I mean ALL of them- to you. His style is intelligent and straightforward and he has more "fish sense"than any writer I've ever read. He will, clearly and concisely, tune youinto the single most effective and versatile method of enticing trout to ahook that I know of. Enjoy!Davy from flyrod@artistree.com Wed Jun 3 00:10:36 1998 WAA18004 Subject: Re: In Search Of: Guides (works of art) mac-creator="4D4F5353" Christian,Just a thought. This might not be what your looking for but I'drecommend David LeClair's "Snake Maker" as a gift. Also maybe some ofthe different "Wire" sizes and "Blacking Solution" he sells with it.Really useful tool that a craftsman can appreciate. The guides itproduces really have that "classic" look to them. Best Regards,Chris Wohlford p.s. I think Dave's on this list somewhere and his email isLECLAIR123@aol.com if your interested. from dpeaston@wzrd.com Wed Jun 3 06:31:55 1998 mail.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3)with SMTP id HAA07527 for ; Wed, 3 Jun Subject: Taper for Grainger Aristocrat Jerry,I have determined that there are errors in the figures on the Grainger Igave to you for posting. Since the data are posted prominently on theRodmakers Site where people might copy them for rod making , I feel thatitis important to make corrections. The errors arose because of mymisunderstandings of the vernier scale I was using. If you wish I will senda retraction to the list serve. Here is the remeasured taper for the Grainger 8.5 ft Aristocrat. Point Dia. (ave 2 flats*) Stress (F(b))** Parameters1 0.087 26360 Rod Length 8'6" (102")5 0.092 114122 Action length 90" 10 0.110 138313 Line Wt. #515 0.135 116807 Pieces 3/2 (data for dryfly tiponly)20 0.165 89426 Line fished 45'25 0.175 99044 Tip impact factor 2.08130 0.189 100264 Std. Ferrules 16/64 &18/6435 0.197 f 111337 Allowance for varnishNone40 0.197 14155645 0.207 15044350 0.233 12726555 0.240 13837660 0.246 15086265 0.268 13563070 0.290 {68} f 12495975 0.295 13942780 0.309 14085485 0.317 15005289 0.340 ------ *Flat 1 casting plane, Flat 2 adjacent flat.**Calculated by "Web Hexrod" As you can see from the F(b) progression, this is a parabolic rod with astress peak in the tip at 10" and in the mid section (twin peaks) at 45 and60". The overall shape is about the same as in the previous stress curve.Just lower peaks. The max flex is in the mid section-giving a parabolicaction. I will do anything (except public self-immolation) to set this right.Please let me know what is your pleasure. Regards, Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from WDHCJL@aol.com Wed Jun 3 07:13:02 1998 Subject: Re: block plane identification In a message dated 98-06-01 23:11:28 EDT, you write: I just started using an original 9 1/2 and although this isn't much, I cantell you that the original (or at least old) 9 1/2, has "No. 9 1/2" stampedonleft hand side. Try looking at :http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan2.htm#num9.5doug hall from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Jun 3 09:48:38 1998 Subject: Re: Re: New Appreciation for Garrison Tapers List,Years ago , back in the early seventies, my friend and I used to run into SylNemes almost every weekend on the Pere Marquette in Michigan. He waskindenough to give us some soft hackles and instructed us how to use them. Idon't think I have ever been out and not used the soft hackles since heshowedthem to us. My favorite rod for this is a 9' Heddon Black Beauty thatthrowsa 5 wght. This rod is nice and slow and is very easy to use a tandom rigon.I would suggest this rod action to anyone who wishes to use soft hacklesorwet flies. Bret from Dlaurenza@aol.com Wed Jun 3 10:39:27 1998 Subject: reel seat removal Hi all,I'm new to the list. Been lurking around for several mo.. I would liketo remove a reel seat that was glued with Devcon two ton epoxy. Anysuggestions would be appreciated.ThanksDon Laurenzana from sats@gte.net Wed Jun 3 10:45:58 1998 Subject: Re: Shapes for Cork 1) the reel seat to be used with grip2) how the size of the grip helps balance the rod3) the line weight to be used4) cast length and amount of line to be lifted to cast5) type of fish and fish fighting considerations6) size of the casting hand...I think the hot grips today from a commercial viewpoint are the westerngrip with an screw uplock reel seat for trout rods and a full-wells grip One rod I just finished had a half wells, (came that way, and part of thereason I did the rod.) I think half wells Look better on swelled but and larger butt rods. BIGrodsdo need a full wells. 3wt rods 6~7 ft look a bit odd with such a small butt sticking from somuchcork. I usually use a modified western (more like a cigar front end and awestern back.) I agree that the Superfine are great for rods that hang in showrooms. Idon'tlike the feel of them and I don't like the looks of them. Aside from this. I find I like down locking on bamboo over 7ft. It helpsbalance out the rod without a big reel. Terry Kirkpatrick--Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from GROMBACHERA@phibred.com Wed Jun 3 11:04:21 1998 11:04:20 -0500 via smap (4.1) Subject: RE: Got a Problem Don, I'll be up fishing with Wally, Mike, and some other guys near Edson thisweekend. I think Wally said Lovett Pond (sp?). You should come onover. I could come out next week or the3 weekend of the 13th if you'dlike. Let me know, I am fairly flexible. My only block this summer is from t he 15 to 25th of June -- brother-in-law's weeding in Iowa. Mike loves the rod.Alberta Al ----------From: Don Andersen[SMTP:dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca]Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 1998 2:30 PM Subject: RE: Got a Problem At 11:11 02/06/98 -0500, you wrote:Don, My Clark is an 8ft 2pc 6wght. You have seen it. It is quite fast.Ican bring it out to you if you'd like. I was out last week with Wally, Lance, and Mike Dell. The 5wght7ft9inthat Mike had was a fantastic casting rod and elegant to boot. Nicerods, you make.Alberta Al Al, That would be great - I do recall seeing the rod and would love to getataper from it to compare to what I do now. When are you available? DonPS - thanx for the complement on the rod. Hope Mike is pleased. from GROMBACHERA@phibred.com Wed Jun 3 11:13:44 1998 11:13:33 -0500 via smap (4.1) Subject: RE: Got a Problem Hello folks, Sorry for the previous bandwidth. I hit the automatic reply. I shouldhave sent it straight to Don. Alberta Al ----------From: Grombacher, AlanSent: Wednesday, June 03, 1998 10:03 AM Subject: RE: Got a Problem Don, I'll be up fishing with Wally, Mike, and some other guys near Edsonthisweekend. I think Wally said Lovett Pond (sp?). You should come onover. I could come out next week or the3 weekend of the 13th if you'dlike. Let me know, I am fairly flexible. My only block this summeris from t he 15 to 25th of June -- brother-in-law's weeding in Iowa. Mike loves the rod.Alberta Al ----------From: Don Andersen[SMTP:dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca]Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 1998 2:30 PM Subject: RE: Got a Problem At 11:11 02/06/98 -0500, you wrote:Don, My Clark is an 8ft 2pc 6wght. You have seen it. It is quite fast.Ican bring it out to you if you'd like. I was out last week with Wally, Lance, and Mike Dell. The 5wght7ft9inthat Mike had was a fantastic casting rod and elegant to boot.Nicerods, you make.Alberta Al Al, That would be great - I do recall seeing the rod and would love togetataper from it to compare to what I do now. When are you available? DonPS - thanx for the complement on the rod. Hope Mike is pleased. from destinycon@mindspring.com Wed Jun 3 14:13:40 1998 Subject: TEST ONLY HI...HO...HI...HO...it's off the list I'm thrown from ragnarig@integrityol.com Wed Jun 3 17:43:51 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A368257029E; Wed, 03 Jun 1998 15:51:20 PDT Subject: Matches for tip sections Dear listers Someone (and I've naturally forgotten who) recently posted the tapers of acouple of tip sections for which he was trying to find a compatible rodtaper. If the owner of these sections would please call my e-mail number on thewhite courtesy phone I would like to give him an important message. Thanks,Davy from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Jun 3 20:30:39 1998 Subject: Matches for tip sections RO>Dear listers RO>Someone (and I've naturally forgotten who) recently posted the tapersof aRO>couple of tip sections for which he was trying to find a compatible rodRO>taper. RO>If the owner of these sections would please call my e-mail number ontheRO>white courtesy phone I would like to give him an important message. RO>Thanks,RO>Davy Davy, I believe that could have been me. Two tips that I purchased that weresupposed to be for Heddon rods. But arrived as flamed tips. Don BurnsFlyfisher@cmix.com or Canerods@aol.com from FLYROD777@aol.com Wed Jun 3 23:55:11 1998 Subject: Re: Grayrock Planning Wayne Do you have prints for the oven? I'm planning on being in Grayrock. Mark Hallowell from flyfisher@nextdim.com Thu Jun 4 00:12:14 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id AB27DAF01CC; Wed, 03 Jun 1998 22:05:43 PDT Subject: Re: Grayrock Planning testdell-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Grayrock Planning Wayne Do you have prints for the oven? I'm planning on being in Grayrock. Mark Hallowell from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Thu Jun 4 05:06:32 1998 post.interalpha.net(8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id LAA14496 for ;Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:15:44+0100 Subject: Re: [1] Got a Problem At 20:55 02/06/98, you wrote:At 17:23 02/06/98 +0100, Don wrote:At 09:32 02/06/98, you wrote:Guys, The question is: Does anyone have a taper for a 7>8' rod that is middlingfast for a 5 wt. line. I know that some of the tapers I build leave himcold as they are some what slower and more deliberate. Help, Don And John responded; Yup - the Hardy C.C.de France 8' is exactly that. I have one that is just (only just) ready for its first coat of varnish. Ifyou want the tapers, I'' mic it up for you, and weigh it to see if it fitsyour client's requirements. There again, you may prefer a classic American taper, which will bebetter- known to someone who's opinion is understood, and reliable. John Cooper John, As a Canadian, I come from varied stock and owe allegiance to onlyCanada.If the taper I like comes from Bulgaria, I really don't care. I was reallyhoping that someone had a Hardy taper. The ones I've cast are quite quickand may be just the ticket for this guy. I've only measured a couple ofHardy's and found that some of their workmanship was either fabulous orso-so leaving me confused about what the taper was really supposed tobe. Would you send me the Hardy CC de France 8'er. And is it for a 5 wt. line? Don There have been quite a few takers on this one, on and off list. OK, I'll try to measure the rod this evening, and post ASAP. It is an 8' 2/1 #5 but I've used a #4 and a short #6 on it with good results. Hardy brothers used in setting both distance and accuracy records in theworld casting championships; that year (19??) being held in Paris, undertheflag of the Casting Club of France. Hence the rod was given its name --the C.C.de France. Hardy quality was usually very high, and on flagship lines like this rod,would have been impeccable. My 1950 rod is the right side of bloodywonderful: tight as a tick, and as straight as an arrow. Interestingly, it'sone of the Hardy designs that is in demand in the States (along with theMarvel, and the Phantom). There are obviously fewer bamboo anglers here,buteven so, C.C.de France rods that come up for sale are (as my son would say)like GONE man. Oh yes, and they usually only have one tip. Unfortunately, ithas intermediate wraps, which I HATE, but it's otherwise a dream of a rod. I'd be interested to know how others feel about this taper. In Trout, E.Schweibert describes English rods as typically 'clubby'. What the hell doesthat mean? Anyone out there with a hands-on opinion ? John Cooper from dhaftel@att.com Thu Jun 4 07:43:40 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2 sol2) (5.5.1960.3) Subject: Oops! Hi ho! Hi ho!How'd the rest of that song go? I got kicked off too!! Dennis Haftel from dryfly@erols.com Thu Jun 4 09:48:02 1998 Subject: Test Testing, have gotten bounced off twice this week. Has there beenproblems for others. ThanksBob from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Thu Jun 4 09:56:21 1998 Subject: Test - don't read from ragnarig@integrityol.com Thu Jun 4 10:51:19 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A4086830288; Thu, 04 Jun 1998 08:58:00 PDT Subject: CC de France, was Got a Problem Anyone out there with a hands-on opinion ? John Cooper Boy Howdy, do I! Without going into it deeply enough to ruin my day, yes, John, I have anopinion, a jones (ask your son) a grudge and several other thingsassociated with this rod. It involves my first memories of flyfishing,deceased loved ones, and not-universally-held understandings concerningthedistribution of a dear one's sporting goods after his demise if you knowwhat I mean and I think you do. My favorite uncle (after whom my son is named) had one of these, and it isprobably the number 1 reason I got started making rods in the first place.Guess I'm still trying to recapture the fishing experiences of my youth. My memories are more than a generation old but I can recall Uncle Andycatching a good-sized seelhead on it and teaching me to fish with ratherminute dries. What does that tell you? The thing I recall was its "crispness" and I never could find another rodthat had it. I could instantly "bury" a wet fly at the end of a long cast.Lots of control. Yes, John, I would be inclined to agree with your assessment that thiswould be a worthwhile taper to try. Davy from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Thu Jun 4 11:14:49 1998 post.interalpha.net(8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id RAA30633 for ;Thu, 4 Jun 1998 17:24:15+0100 Subject: Re: CC de France, was Got a Problem At 09:03 04/06/98 -0700, you wrote: Anyone out there with a hands-on opinion ? John Cooper Boy Howdy, do I! Without going into it deeply enough to ruin my day, yes, John, I have anopinion, a jones (ask your son) a grudge and several other thingsassociated with this rod. It involves my first memories of flyfishing,deceased loved ones, and not-universally-held understandings concerningthedistribution of a dear one's sporting goods after his demise if you knowwhat I mean and I think you do. My favorite uncle (after whom my son is named) had one of these, and itisprobably the number 1 reason I got started making rods in the first place.Guess I'm still trying to recapture the fishing experiences of my youth. My memories are more than a generation old but I can recall Uncle Andycatching a good-sized seelhead on it and teaching me to fish with ratherminute dries. What does that tell you? The thing I recall was its "crispness" and I never could find another rodthat had it. I could instantly "bury" a wet fly at the end of a long cast.Lots of control. Yes, John, I would be inclined to agree with your assessment that thiswould be a worthwhile taper to try. Davy Got you - ABSOLUTELY. I've never heard of a rod being more essential than this one is to you Davy.When my own rod is finished, I'll try to get a photograph to you so that youcan copy it exactly. If you have a lathe, the metalwork is easy enough. If your funds run to it, I'll try to locate a Hardy C.C.de France for you.Could take a while, but judging from the above, it could be a soul-mendingre-visit. Or will your own reproduction do the trick adequately? Is it thetaper, the rod, or THAT rod that you need to sort your mind? John Cooper from RVenneri@aol.com Thu Jun 4 14:29:05 1998 Subject: testing just a test somehow wascut off from ragnarig@integrityol.com Thu Jun 4 18:37:49 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A1753C00254; Thu, 04 Jun 1998 16:44:53 PDT Subject: Re: CC de France, was Got a Problem Got you - ABSOLUTELY. I've never heard of a rod being more essential than this one is to youDavy.When my own rod is finished, I'll try to get a photograph to you so thatyoucan copy it exactly. If you have a lathe, the metalwork is easy enough. Yes, I've got a lathe, and I'm not afraid to use it! If your funds run to it, I'll try to locate a Hardy C.C.de France for you.Could take a while, but judging from the above, it could be a soul-mendingre-visit. Or will your own reproduction do the trick adequately? Is it thetaper, the rod, or THAT rod that you need to sort your mind? Actually, a certain cousin's head on a stake... no, he's got enough problemswithout suffering the loss of his hat-rack... I think just being able toclose my eyes and feel that distinct tug letting me know it's time to flickmy forearm would be all that I could hope for. The answer is, "Any and all of the above, sir, and hats off to you!" And ifyou ever run out of "gonzos" just let me know and I'll MAKE you some! I'm afraid to ask but what do you think would be the ransom for one ofthoserods? Have no care about the timing as my cocktail hour is flexible. With gratitude,Davy from stpete@netten.net Thu Jun 4 22:19:47 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12)with SMTP id WAA22683 for ; Thu, 4 Jun Subject: Test AGAIN - why not? everyone else must be kicked off too Test - do not read. I said, DO NOT READ!!! Whatsa matta? You can'tfollow simple instructions? DO NOT READ! Rick from dryfly@erols.com Thu Jun 4 22:29:12 1998 0400 Subject: test test from blueheron@wrtsun02.svidaho.net Thu Jun 4 23:55:13 1998 Subject: H.L. Leonard Fly Rod I have a 3piece 9foot with extra tip and both tips in bag and tube. Therod has very little dip if any at all. The only marking is the Leonardstamp on the butt. The first guide appears to have a ceramic core, thewindings are reddish in color. My question is if anyone would have any that there is a thumb rest on the handle, that appears ot have beenthere when it was new. Never seen any thing like this before.Thankinganyone in advance. Harold Webb from djfinch@sprintmail.com Thu Jun 4 23:59:53 1998 hme0.a001.sprintmail.com mailfep1-hme1 viadsmap-1.22 0700 Subject: test sorry ! just a test. from flyrod@artistree.com Fri Jun 5 01:00:58 1998 XAA07055 Subject: Re: Test AGAIN - why not? everyone else must be kicked off too mac-creator="4D4F5353" Sorry, so little mail I'm having withdrawal symptoms > Chris Rick Crenshaw wrote: Test - do not read. I said, DO NOT READ!!! Whatsa matta? You can'tfollow simple instructions? DO NOT READ! Rick from geraldb@pennwell.com Fri Jun 5 08:46:22 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: Split bamboo rod with black finish I purchased a batch of rods recently for restoration during the "downtimes." Well, with all the nasty heat we've had I began with the neediest of therods. The ferrules came of nicely and so did the guides and tip top. Thecork grip and reel seat are still attached but there's one nasty barrierto finishing this one out: There is a wicked black finish (enamel, milk paint, TAR!, something)which is as nasty a substance as I've ever encountered. It's difficultto delicately plane off. It refuses to sand off unless planed to amicrosheen/translucent thickness. I don't know what it is or how to getit off the rod efficiently. So, I turn to the other fine folks on thislistserv to appeal to your good natured help. Thanks. Gerald BuckleyTulsa, OK from LambersonW@missouri.edu Fri Jun 5 09:18:31 1998 (5.5.1960.3) Subject: RE: Split bamboo rod with black finish I was also recently working on a rod with a similar black finish. Iused a scraper to take it off. The scraper wasn't so sharp that itshaved any cane, but would remove the finish. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, June 05, 1998 8:59 AM Subject: Split bamboo rod with black finish I purchased a batch of rods recently for restorationduring the "downtimes." Well, with all the nasty heat we've had I began with theneediest of therods. The ferrules came of nicely and so did the guidesand tip top. Thecork grip and reel seat are still attached but there'sone nasty barrierto finishing this one out: There is a wicked black finish (enamel, milk paint,TAR!, something)which is as nasty a substance as I've ever encountered.It's difficultto delicately plane off. It refuses to sand off unlessplaned to amicrosheen/translucent thickness. I don't know what itis or how to getit off the rod efficiently. So, I turn to the other finefolks on thislistserv to appeal to your good natured help. Thanks. Gerald BuckleyTulsa, OK from dhaftel@att.com Fri Jun 5 09:33:40 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2 sol2) (5.5.1960.3) Subject: RE: Split bamboo rod with black finish If you're too chicken to try a scraper (I think I would be...), a singleedge razor blade works really well. Just use the side (not the sharpenededge) as a scraper and work slowly. This method has worked great for meinthe past. Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Lamberson, William R. [SMTP:LambersonW@missouri.edu]Sent: Friday, June 05, 1998 10:18 AM Subject: RE: Split bamboo rod with black finish I was also recently working on a rod with a similar black finish. Iused a scraper to take it off. The scraper wasn't so sharp that itshaved any cane, but would remove the finish. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, June 05, 1998 8:59 AM Subject: Split bamboo rod with black finish I purchased a batch of rods recently for restorationduring the "downtimes." Well, with all the nasty heat we've had I began with theneediest of therods. The ferrules came of nicely and so did the guidesand tip top. Thecork grip and reel seat are still attached but there'sone nasty barrierto finishing this one out: There is a wicked black finish (enamel, milk paint,TAR!, something)which is as nasty a substance as I've ever encountered.It's difficultto delicately plane off. It refuses to sand off unlessplaned to amicrosheen/translucent thickness. I don't know what itis or how to getit off the rod efficiently. So, I turn to the other finefolks on thislistserv to appeal to your good natured help. Thanks. Gerald BuckleyTulsa, OK from DBURRILL@TELEHUB.com Fri Jun 5 09:35:38 1998 Subject: RE: Split bamboo rod with black finish Gerald,Just curious, any idea what make this rod is? Does it have aserial number stamped into the reel seat? -----Original Message-----From: Gerald Buckley [SMTP:geraldb@pennwell.com]Sent: Friday, June 05, 1998 6:59 AM Subject: Split bamboo rod with black finish I purchased a batch of rods recently for restoration during the"downtimes." Well, with all the nasty heat we've had I began with theneediest of therods. The ferrules came of nicely and so did the guides and tiptop. Thecork grip and reel seat are still attached but there's one nastybarrierto finishing this one out: There is a wicked black finish (enamel, milk paint, TAR!,something)which is as nasty a substance as I've ever encountered. It'sdifficultto delicately plane off. It refuses to sand off unless planed toamicrosheen/translucent thickness. I don't know what it is or howto getit off the rod efficiently. So, I turn to the other fine folkson thislistserv to appeal to your good natured help. Thanks. Gerald BuckleyTulsa, OK from Fishinstix@aol.com Fri Jun 5 10:29:04 1998 Subject: question Hi, What does Double Built and Single Built mean. from Fishinstix@aol.com Fri Jun 5 10:58:11 1998 Subject: Reel Seat question Hi, Would someone tell me whats the best thing to do about the excess slop ofpre-drilled reel seats when you go to install it on your rod with a smaller diabutt section than the reel seat hole. Thanks Mark Mills from rclarke@eou.edu Fri Jun 5 11:28:50 1998 Subject: Re: Reel Seat question Wayne's book has a good decription for this. Basically, you build up fromthe lower end of the cane section. I think he recommends tape, but othersmay use some other material. Robert Clarke ----------From: Fishinstix@aol.com Subject: Reel Seat questionDate: Friday, June 05, 1998 8:57 AM Hi, Would someone tell me whats the best thing to do about the excess slopofpre-drilled reel seats when you go to install it on your rod with a smallerdiabutt section than the reel seat hole. Thanks Mark Mills from thramer@presys.com Fri Jun 5 11:29:00 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Split bamboo rod with black finish Gerald Buckley wrote: I purchased a batch of rods recently for restoration during the "downtimes." Well, with all the nasty heat we've had I began with the neediest of therods. The ferrules came of nicely and so did the guides and tip top. Thecork grip and reel seat are still attached but there's one nasty barrierto finishing this one out: There is a wicked black finish (enamel, milk paint, TAR!, something)which is as nasty a substance as I've ever encountered. It's difficultto delicately plane off. It refuses to sand off unless planed to amicrosheen/translucent thickness. I don't know what it is or how to getit off the rod efficiently. So, I turn to the other fine folks on thislistserv to appeal to your good natured help. Thanks. Gerald BuckleyTulsa, OKUse a scraper or a razor blade.A.J.Thramer from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us Fri Jun 5 12:07:53 1998 (envelope- from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us) (envelope- from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us) 1.21);5 Jun 98 13:12:19 EST EST Subject: Re: Reel Seat question Wayne's book has a good decription for this. Basically, you build up fromthe lower end of the cane section. I think he recommends tape, butothersmay use some other material.Robert Clarke Hi, Would someone tell me whats the best thing to do about the excessslop ofpredrilled reel seats when you go to install it on your rod with asmallerdia butt section than the reel seat hole. Thanks Mark Mills I have a lot of broken graphite rods kicking around that I use for parts and experiments. One more than one reel seet install, I have sawed off an old piece of graphite from the butt end and epoxied that to the bamboo to take up the space. I have heard some folks say that masking tape can deteriorate if a little water gets in there and stagnates. Another suggestion I have not tried is to use a small diameter nylon rope to take up the space. After wrapping it on, testing the fit, epoxy it down. Then install the reel seat. Good luck!Joe Mulvey from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Jun 5 12:18:42 1998 Subject: RE:Split bamboo rod with black finish RO>I purchased a batch of rods recently for restoration during the "downRO>times." RO>Well, with all the nasty heat we've had I began with the neediest of theRO>rods. The ferrules came of nicely and so did the guides and tip top. TheRO>cork grip and reel seat are still attached but there's one nasty barrierRO>to finishing this one out: RO>There is a wicked black finish (enamel, milk paint, TAR!, something)RO>which is as nasty a substance as I've ever encountered. It's difficultRO>to delicately plane off. It refuses to sand off unless planed to aRO>microsheen/translucent thickness. I don't know what it is or how togetRO>it off the rod efficiently. So, I turn to the other fine folks on thisRO>listserv to appeal to your good natured help. RO>Thanks. RO>Gerald BuckleyRO>Tulsa, OK Might be time to try paint stripper - 3M Safest is a good one for canerod use. Don Burns from geraldb@pennwell.com Fri Jun 5 14:23:31 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Split bamboo rod with black finish Thanks to everyone who's offered suggestions. To answer some of thequestions: Is it marked and serialized?No, there were no distinguising marks. No obvious clues to the maker,brand, etc. The split bamboo below this finish from hell is a richcarmel color and the nodes are kind of a blond/honey. It's also a twopiece. These might suggest a certain maker's m.o., I don't know. Theferrules were of aluminum-like stock and apparently had developedfractures some time ago. Another clue is it came with two tips. Thismight narrow down some of the likely makers for those of you whoexhibited interest. How thick is the finish?I don't have a micrometer myself, so couldn't really tell you specifics.It's about as thick as a sheet of laserprinter paper. Are you open to using chemicals?If I knew what the finish consisted of I would be open to anything mildenough to strip the finish yet not damage the adhesive of the strips. Ifanyone has a suggestion other than commercial stripper strength stuff(because it didn't work) I'm open to suggestions. Thanks again. Gerald from flyrod@artistree.com Fri Jun 5 14:39:35 1998 MAA13037 Subject: Re: Reel Seat question mac-creator="4D4F5353" I use black plastic Electrical Tape and epoxy because of this. > Chris Joe Mulvey wrote: I have heard some folks say that masking tape can deteriorate if a littlewatergets in there andstagnates..... from jaw12@health.state.ny.us Fri Jun 5 14:51:22 1998 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Fri, 5 Jun 1998 15:50:46 -0400 Fri, 5 Jun 1998 15:50:46 -0400 Subject: RE: Split bamboo rod with black finish How 'bout stripper from an autobody supply store... Never tried it on can,but it will strip the finish off a car! from harry37@epix.net Fri Jun 5 14:53:31 1998 SMTP id PAA29211 Subject: Re: Reel Seat question C.J. Wohlford wrote: I use black plastic Electrical Tape and epoxy because of this. > Chris Joe Mulvey wrote: I have heard some folks say that masking tape can deteriorate if alittle watergets in there andstagnates..... Any Preference for epoxy to use?Everyone seems to hate Devcon Greg from flyrod@artistree.com Fri Jun 5 15:01:36 1998 NAA14756 Subject: Re: question mac-creator="4D4F5353" Well, lets see if I can explain this with ASCII art. Basically a canerod shaft was built around another cane rod shaft This was done to givemore power fibers but I have read somewhere that the trade off wasincreased weight and a stiffer action that was not preferable. Iapologize if the art doesn't come through properly. > Chris Wohlford Single Built (normal hex crosscut)_____/ \/ \\ /\ _____/ Double Built (hex crosscut)_____/ __ \/ / \ \\ \ ___/ /\ _____/ Fishinstix@aol.com wrote: Hi, What does Double Built and Single Built mean. from flyrod@artistree.com Fri Jun 5 15:16:39 1998 NAA28225 Subject: Re: Reel Seat question mac-creator="4D4F5353" I use the Devcon although I'd be curious to hear of any other alternatives. Ithinkthe negative talk about Devcon is in reference to attaching ferrules. Interesting note by M. Sinclair for removing old/damaged reel seats is to"place them(attached to rod) in small pot of boiling water in hope that it loosens upthe glue". Best regards,Chris Wohlford Greg Kuntz wrote: C.J. Wohlford wrote: I use black plastic Electrical Tape and epoxy because of this. > Chris Joe Mulvey wrote: I have heard some folks say that masking tape can deteriorate if alittle watergets in there andstagnates..... Any Preference for epoxy to use?Everyone seems to hate Devcon Greg from stpete@netten.net Fri Jun 5 15:55:23 1998 cedar.netten.net(8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA20731 for ;Fri, 5 Jun 1998 16:23:11 Subject: Braided Mason's line Could anyone out there tell me a good source for the BRAIDED Mason'sline? I can't find it at any of the local hardware stores. All I canfind is the twisted nylon cords. Braided cords start at about 1/8"thickness - way too thick for running on a binder. If you have any better materials, I'd be interested in hearing aboutthat as well - that is if anyone else is still using a Garrison binder! TIA, Rick from rcurry@top.monad.net Fri Jun 5 16:04:28 1998 Subject: Re: Split bamboo rod with black finish Gerald Buckley wrote:There is a wicked black finish (enamel, milk paint, TAR!, something)which is as nasty a substance as I've ever encountered. It's difficultto delicately plane off. It refuses to sand off unless planed to amicrosheen/translucent thickness. I don't know what it is or how to getit off the rod efficiently. Gerald,Is the paint hard enough to break off? I use a wooden ruler with thesteel insert to scrape varnish off. This is not sharp enough to scrapethe cane but does a good job of scraping hard varnish.Best regards,Reed from rcurry@top.monad.net Fri Jun 5 16:07:36 1998 Subject: Re: Reel Seat question Mark,I often must extend the cane (early makers often left only 1" of cane enough to take up the "slop". If not, use pvc.Best regards,Reed from flyrod@artistree.com Fri Jun 5 16:52:43 1998 OAA04929 Subject: Re: Braided Mason's line mac-creator="4D4F5353" I know Orchard Garden & Supply and Ace Hardware carry it. It was 3/32" indiameter and I haven't seen any other sizes. That's pretty close to 1/8but it works just fine for me. Guess it all depends on your pulley sizes.BTW - This cord is so used for drapery and venetian blinds. Also, Orchard had "Sail Makers" needles. Big needles which are great formaking that endless loop or that hidden knot. Chris Wohlford Rick Crenshaw wrote: Could anyone out there tell me a good source for the BRAIDED Mason'sline? I can't find it at any of the local hardware stores. All I canfind is the twisted nylon cords. Braided cords start at about 1/8"thickness - way too thick for running on a binder. If you have any better materials, I'd be interested in hearing aboutthat as well - that is if anyone else is still using a Garrison binder! TIA, Rick from jourdoktorn@pilot.stjarntv.se Fri Jun 5 18:00:08 1998 with ESMTP id AAA1231 for ;Sat, 6 Jun 1998 00:57:54 +0200 Subject: Re: H.L. Leonard Fly Rod Harold,it is difficult from your somewhat thin information to have a correctvalue. from the length, ceramic first guide( probably the rest are snakeguides ), wooden reel seat or N/S(older) and the reddish windings I wouldguess it has a market value of $300-$500.Best,Jan Nystrom Harold Webb wrote: I have a 3piece 9foot with extra tip and both tips in bag and tube. Therod has very little dip if any at all. The only marking is the Leonardstamp on the butt. The first guide appears to have a ceramic core, thewindings are reddish in color. My question is if anyone would have any that there is a thumb rest on the handle, that appears ot have beenthere when it was new. Never seen any thing like this before.Thankinganyone in advance. Harold Webb from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Fri Jun 5 18:00:12 1998 Subject: Re: Braided Mason's line Rick,I've seen lots of recommendations for 75# braided nylon kite string.Yesterday I was in a Kite shop and picked up much more than I'll everuse. If you're interested, send me your address privately and I'll dropseveral yards of it in the mail asap.Harry Boyd (fbcwin@fsbnet.com) Rick Crenshaw wrote: Could anyone out there tell me a good source for the BRAIDED Mason'sline? I can't find it at any of the local hardware stores. All I canfind is the twisted nylon cords. Braided cords start at about 1/8"thickness - way too thick for running on a binder. If you have any better materials, I'd be interested in hearing aboutthat as well - that is if anyone else is still using a Garrison binder! TIA, Rick from flyfisher@nextdim.com Fri Jun 5 18:04:52 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id A80018BE01A6; Fri, 05 Jun 1998 15:58:08 PDT Subject: Re: Braided Mason's line Rick, I use 30 lb. Courtland braided nylon running line on a Garrison typebinder.Dell Coppock,"IN THE GREAT NORTHWEST"http://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail flyfisher@nextdim.com binder.-----Original Message----- Subject: Braided Mason's line Could anyone out there tell me a good source for the BRAIDED Mason'sline? I can't find it at any of the local hardware stores. All I canfind is the twisted nylon cords. Braided cords start at about 1/8"thickness - way too thick for running on a binder. If you have any better materials, I'd be interested in hearing aboutthat as well - that is if anyone else is still using a Garrison binder! TIA, Rick from aalin@juno.com Fri Jun 5 19:52:52 1998 20:52:17 EDT Subject: is there a problem with the listserver? I haven't heard a word from anyone lately, and I was wondering what wasgoing on.. if someone could drop me a line at Aalin@juno.com and tell me if this got to the list I would greatlyappreciate it.. Jason _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from saltwein@swbell.net Fri Jun 5 19:57:59 1998 TAA18532 Subject: Deft Polyurethane/Mineral Spirits A couple of questions. Has anyone used the Deft polyurethane to dip a rod? If so what did youthink of it and what were the results? I have seen many references to using turpentine to thin the viscosity ofa finish for dipping. The polyurethane finishes I have seen called formineral spirits as a thinner. Is there a reason why I would want to usethe turps over the mineral spirits? TIA. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from channer@hubwest.com Fri Jun 5 21:21:13 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A7CD77B029E; Fri, 05 Jun 1998 20:22:05 MDT Subject: Re: is there a problem with the listserver? At 08:49 PM 6/5/98 -0400, you wrote:I haven't heard a word from anyone lately, and I was wondering what wasgoing on.. if someone could drop me a line at Aalin@juno.com and tell me if this got to the list I would greatlyappreciate it.. Jason _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] Jason;obviously, this message got thru. It seems that lots of people have beenhaving trouble recently. Me, I've been getting the usual 15-25 a day.GoodLuckJohn Channer from 106256.3171@compuserve.com Sat Jun 6 02:36:07 1998 Subject: Changing net service provider. I am going to change my internet supplyier shortly and would like to knowhow to maitain my connection to the server. Do I have to unsupscribe onmypresent address and then re-subscribe on my new service provider and ifthis is the case is there any way of avoiding being sent all the archivesagain. Thanks Mick Woodruff. from 106256.3171@compuserve.com Sat Jun 6 02:36:09 1998 Subject: Re: Design Hi Martyn,I got my copy from a company called coch-y-bonddu books in Wales, Iwas charged £60.00. their site is http://www.fishing.org/bonddu/ andemailomorgan@zetnet.co.uk.The company had a stall at the Chatsworth game fair in england last monthand I am sure I saw a copy on the shelves. Regards Mick.W from 106256.3171@compuserve.com Sat Jun 6 02:36:14 1998 Subject: Binders & Millers Hi Guy's,I spent last Sunday with Barry Grantham in Lincoln England watchinghim demonstrate the binding and milling machines he has made and how hemakes his fly rods.Both machines looked impressive to me in particular the milling machine,which is on a seven foot long bench construction and looks to be quite apeice of engineering.We started off with a culm of bamboo heat treated it, split it andstraightened the nodes etc which I was quite familiar with. Then theamazing bit. We put the strips on the milling machine, a quick buzz fromthe machine and all the strip were triangulated. A few adjustments to thebed of the milling machine and the strips were being tapered.It was very impressive to see him produce a section of rod in a couple ofminutes as opposed to the hours it takes me to hand plane a section.Unfortunately I had to go back home before I could see the whole processcompleted.Barry is going to carry out a few more refinements to the machine andinvite me back down for another day shortly when I can see the wholeprocess in one go.If any one is interested I will ask Barry to do a bit of a write up aboutboth machines and posts it after my next visit. Mick Woodruff. from flyrod@artistree.com Sat Jun 6 04:06:07 1998 CAA06624 Subject: REC Ferrules mac-creator="4D4F5353" A few weeks ago someone recommended REC's Super Swiss over the SuperZ'sbecause of quality. I think it was John Channer. Boy were you right John.These Super Swiss are a BIG step up in quality over the Super Z. Thanks forthe tip! Best Regards,Chris Wohlford from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Sat Jun 6 05:14:01 1998 (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP idLAA02328 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 11:23:54+0100 Subject: The Hardy's C.C.de France This is for Davy Rigg in particularly, and the several others who asked forthe Hardy's C.C.de France taper. And if the maestro would like to includethis in the rodmakers web page, well by all means go ahead. I've mic'd the rod very carefully, and where there have been differencesbetween the flats, have averaged. The differences were small anyway -.002or .005 at worst. 0" - .0795" - .10110" .13015" .14920" .16725" .17930" .18835" .20040" .21045" .22046" .22746" - 50" ferrule and wraps50" .23755" .24560" .26265" .27070" .29375" .30580" .30885" .320" Overall rod length, less tip top 95*"Handle length 10*" with small tapering winding checkAll cork handle with lightweight sliding D/L reel band to standard Hardy'sscrewed-on aluminium socket, and decorated and engraved butt cap.Ferrule - Hardy's own nickel silver. Male size .230" Guide spacing. 0"4"9"16"26"37"51"67" agate stripping guide. I would suggest that an additional guide or two might be beneficial.Original guides are bronzed cradle rings (we call them full open bridge).They were quite small, and more suitable for silk lines. I'm replacing withHopkins and Holloway bronzed snakes, sizes 1 and 2, and re-installing theoriginal real agate stripper. Weight, with guides, but without varnish, is just under 4 oz. Wraps are light yellow/olive green, colour preserved. Legend reads: Above winding check wrap: Palakona Regd. Trade MarkAbove first intermediate: The "C.C.de France" The bamboo is medium brown, and the node pattern the normal Hardy's 3x3pattern. My rod is numbered E74301 and this makes it a 1950 rod. The C.C.de France was made from 1911 to 1961, and in both 7'0" and 8'lengths. Value: Well I paid £150 ($225) for mine, and this should have beendescribedas theft. The dealer who sold it to me couldn't see the perfect rod under abedraggled exterior. A good one might sell for £400 ($600). A mintexamplemight sell for quite a bit more. There's something rather nice about having an original, with all itsengraving, and a pukka serial number. An original has a bit of history withit: if you like, it's a proper antique rather than a perfect reproduction.All the same, there will be new rodmakers you can make a better job ofmaking the rod than did Hardy's, who were producing for a commercialmarket.But originality has value, otherwise real Garrison rods wouldn't sell for$10,000, despite the fact that a perfect repro can be had for $600. It would be interesting to know how this very famous old taper rates whenrun through Hexrod. I suspect that it will show up all sorts of unhappypossibilities. Whatever - for over 80 years, anglers of great standing anddiscernment have chosen the C.C.de France as their favourite weapon. Itmusthave something going for it. modelcalled The "Davy" from 1930 - 1939 8'9" three piece. I know no more aboutthat one. You'd need to find someone with a Hardy's catalogue (properEnglish spelling) from that period. John Cooper (England) from saltwein@swbell.net Sat Jun 6 06:32:24 1998 GAA26243 Subject: Re: The Hardy's C.C.de France Thanks for the taper and information John. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from SealRite@aol.com Sat Jun 6 07:21:45 1998 Subject: Re: block plane identification Don't get overly detailed with descriptions & specs. A tool is just a tool.It is the hands of the maker that make the difference. I use an old model65stanley that I inherited from my grandfather and it works perfectly. Keepitsharp. Craig from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sat Jun 6 08:17:43 1998 Subject: Got a problem and some solutions Guys, tapers and my friend's casting technique over the summer and attemptingtoseek a solution. Perhaps, I will have to build several rods of slightlydifferent tapers before I get it right for his casting technique. Don from jmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca Sat Jun 6 08:41:54 1998 6 Jun 98 09:37:46 -0500 0500 6 Jun 98 09:37:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Binders & Millers is he thinking of making the milling machine for sale to others?-----Original Message----- Subject: Binders & Millers Hi Guy's,I spent last Sunday with Barry Grantham in Lincoln England watchinghim demonstrate the binding and milling machines he has made and howhemakes his fly rods.Both machines looked impressive to me in particular the milling machine,which is on a seven foot long bench construction and looks to be quite apeice of engineering.We started off with a culm of bamboo heat treated it, split it andstraightened the nodes etc which I was quite familiar with. Then theamazing bit. We put the strips on the milling machine, a quick buzz fromthe machine and all the strip were triangulated. A few adjustments tothebed of the milling machine and the strips were being tapered.It was very impressive to see him produce a section of rod in a couple ofminutes as opposed to the hours it takes me to hand plane a section.Unfortunately I had to go back home before I could see the whole processcompleted.Barry is going to carry out a few more refinements to the machine andinvite me back down for another day shortly when I can see the wholeprocess in one go.If any one is interested I will ask Barry to do a bit of a write up aboutboth machines and posts it after my next visit. Mick Woodruff. from ragnarig@integrityol.com Sat Jun 6 09:21:44 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A2216420296; Sat, 06 Jun 1998 07:28:49 PDT Subject: Re: The Hardy's C.C.de France Dear John Thanks very much! I've been up two hours working on this (and eating breakfast) and have togofishing now, but just wante to tell you how grateful I am. It would be interesting to know how this very famous old taper rateswhenrun through Hexrod. I suspect that it will show up all sorts of unhappypossibilities. Whatever - for over 80 years, anglers of great standing anddiscernment have chosen the C.C.de France as their favourite weapon. Itmusthave something going for it.> You ought to take a look at the stress curve, John. Just cut and paste withthe new option on the Hexrod program. It is a moderate slope, descending from rght to left, meaning that the taper is highly parabolic. There are acople of peaks in the butt section, rather toward the ferrule. When Ifirst read your numbers, I thought, "Payne". Sure enough, look at the Payne 7ft 9in taper in the archive. Just a coupleof variations, but extremely similar tapers. When you get this fellowstrung up, I'd be very interested in your impressions of its castingqualities. I'm thinking of its roll-casting abilities, but this can easilybe tweaked up a bit. modelcalled The "Davy" from 1930 - 1939 8'9" three piece. I know no moreaboutthat one. You'd need to find someone with a Hardy's catalogue (properEnglish spelling) from that period. Well, there's a "Driggs" and a "Chubb", and now a "Davy" as well! Makes mewonder how many more of my nicknames they've used! Got to run, but I'll be in touch.Davy from channer@hubwest.com Sat Jun 6 10:00:50 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A9CF5970206; Sat, 06 Jun 1998 09:01:35 MDT Subject: Re: Binders & Millers At 03:35 AM 6/6/98 -0400, you wrote:Hi Guy's,I spent last Sunday with Barry Grantham in Lincoln England watchinghim demonstrate the binding and milling machines he has made and howhemakes his fly rods.Both machines looked impressive to me in particular the milling machine,which is on a seven foot long bench construction and looks to be quite apeice of engineering.We started off with a culm of bamboo heat treated it, split it andstraightened the nodes etc which I was quite familiar with. Then theamazing bit. We put the strips on the milling machine, a quick buzz fromthe machine and all the strip were triangulated. A few adjustments tothebed of the milling machine and the strips were being tapered.It was very impressive to see him produce a section of rod in a couple ofminutes as opposed to the hours it takes me to hand plane a section.Unfortunately I had to go back home before I could see the whole processcompleted.Barry is going to carry out a few more refinements to the machine andinvite me back down for another day shortly when I can see the wholeprocess in one go.If any one is interested I will ask Barry to do a bit of a write up aboutboth machines and posts it after my next visit. Mick Woodruff. Mick;You bet we're interested(at least, I am) post away!John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Sat Jun 6 10:06:03 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AB115A90206; Sat, 06 Jun 1998 09:06:57 MDT Subject: Re: REC Ferrules At 02:11 AM 6/6/98 -0800, you wrote:A few weeks ago someone recommended REC's Super Swiss over the SuperZ'sbecause of quality. I think it was John Channer. Boy were you right John.These Super Swiss are a BIG step up in quality over the Super Z. Thanksforthe tip! Best Regards,Chris Wohlford Chris;Glad you like them. The ferrules are made for them by Bailey Woods atClassic Sporting Enterprizes and are also sold by Angler's Workshop.Another source for high quality ferrules is Dave LeClair, he is on list, soif you don't have his brochure just post a request and he will send youone. Dave has lots of great stuff. John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Sat Jun 6 10:15:40 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AD525B602A2; Sat, 06 Jun 1998 09:16:34 MDT Subject: glue for ferrules Good Morning All;I am curious as to everyone's favorite glue for ferrules these days. I havea rod coming back to me because the ferrule pulled off one of the tips. Ican't remember what I used on it, either Devcon or Accraglas. I have hadthe ferrules pull off both of my own rods. One I reglued with Accraglas andthe other I used Crazy Glue gel on(don't ask). Both have held up for almosta year with no further problems, but I am discouraged by this rods failure.All tips, opinions and experiences will be appreciated. Thanks everyone John Channer from MICK@welfen-netz.com Sat Jun 6 10:25:52 1998 [195.143.56.1] with SMTP(MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Sat, 06 Jun1998 17:30:47 +0200 Subject: Re: block plane identification that's the pointMichael SealRite@aol.com wrote: Don't get overly detailed with descriptions & specs. A tool is just a tool.It is the hands of the maker that make the difference. I use an old model65stanley that I inherited from my grandfather and it works perfectly. Keep itsharp. Craig from flyrod@artistree.com Sat Jun 6 14:05:52 1998 MAA25975 Subject: Re: REC Ferrules mac-creator="4D4F5353" You know, I was looking at these and thinking they look like Bailey Woods'sferrules. And yes, I agree Dave L. has great stuff:) Chris john channer wrote: At 02:11 AM 6/6/98 -0800, you wrote:A few weeks ago someone recommended REC's Super Swiss over theSuper Z'sbecause of quality. I think it was John Channer. Boy were you right John.These Super Swiss are a BIG step up in quality over the Super Z. Thanksforthe tip! Best Regards,Chris Wohlford Chris;Glad you like them. The ferrules are made for them by Bailey Woods atClassic Sporting Enterprizes and are also sold by Angler's Workshop.Another source for high quality ferrules is Dave LeClair, he is on list, soif you don't have his brochure just post a request and he will send youone. Dave has lots of great stuff. John Channer from ragnarig@integrityol.com Sat Jun 6 14:15:05 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A6D760142; Sat, 06 Jun 1998 12:21:59 PDT Subject: hexrod print boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BD9146.7389F080" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BD9146.7389F080 Hi Can anyone tell me why I can't get a printout of a Hexrod stress graph? =I haven't been able to do this since the revisions were introduced =several weeks ago. Is this a general, bugs-to-work-out type problem or just another =manifestation of my computer illiteracy? I tried to cut and pste it =onto another program but this was way beyond my ken. Just so I'm understood, this program, and its recent improvements, have =improved my understanding of rod tapers and their relationships to =casting qualities to an astonishing extent and all the pages covered =with figures just might be the thing that will cause my wife to finally =take this obsession seriously. A little humor there. Thanks, ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BD9146.7389F080 Hi Can anyone tell me why I can't geta = since the = were introduced several weeks ago. Is this a general, bugs-to-work-out = and pste it onto another program but this was way beyond my =ken. Just so I'm understood, this program, and its recent= relationships to casting qualities to an astonishing extent and all the = covered with figures just might be the thing that will cause my wife to = Thanks, ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BD9146.7389F080-- from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sat Jun 6 14:58:50 1998 with ESMTP id Subject: Re: glue for ferrules Cyanoacrylate glues (super glue, crazy glue, etc.) are probably the MOSTunfitglue for ferrules because they have very low "shear strength" (fail easily from stressthat is perpendicular to the joint, i.e., "slip"). George Bourke ----------From: john channer Subject: glue for ferrulesDate: Saturday, June 06, 1998 2:11 AM Good Morning All;I am curious as to everyone's favorite glue for ferrules these days. Ihavea rod coming back to me because the ferrule pulled off one of the tips. Ican't remember what I used on it, either Devcon or Accraglas. I have hadthe ferrules pull off both of my own rods. One I reglued with Accraglasandthe other I used Crazy Glue gel on(don't ask). Both have held up foralmosta year with no further problems, but I am discouraged by this rodsfailure.All tips, opinions and experiences will be appreciated. Thanks everyone John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Sat Jun 6 18:23:47 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AFB918C0028A; Sat, 06 Jun 1998 17:24:41 MDT Subject: Re: glue for ferrules At 01:02 PM 6/6/98 -0700, you wrote:Cyanoacrylate glues (super glue, crazy glue, etc.) are probably the MOSTunfitglue for ferrules because they have very low "shear strength" (fail easily from stressthat is perpendicular to the joint, i.e., "slip"). George Bourke George;It was there, I was pissed off, and it was my own rod.So far, so good. Ithas held longer than the ones I glued with Devcon. Accraglas seems toworko.k., I just wish I had kept notes or had a better memory, I can't rememberif I used Devcon or Accraglas on this rod that is coming back to me, and Isure don't want it to happen again. What have you had good results with?? John Channer from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Sat Jun 6 19:21:13 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id TAA04684 for; Sat, 6 (8.8.4/8.6.8) with SMTP idTAA21441 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 19:21:12 - Subject: Re: hexrod print I'm guessing this is the online Hexrod you are using. None of the recent changes should affect whether a graph would print ornot. Once it gets displayed on your screen (I am assuming thismuch works), it is just a graphics (GIF) file on your PC's hard drive.You should be able to find recent gif files in your browsers cachedirectory; some of them will be hexrod graphs. Are you able to print other pictures or graphics? Did anything changein your setup, like a new browser program or printer? Do you get anyerror messages? Does the little printer picture show up at the bottomof the screen showing it is trying to print? Unless somebody has an extra insight, maybe we can do the debuggingbetweenus and not bore the rest of the list... When you start doing experiments in your basement that run for days,flexing cane strips back and forth with a motorized devise, then yourwife will know you are seriously obsessed :- )......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Sat, 6 Jun 1998, David Riggs wrote: Hi Can anyone tell me why I can't get a printout of a Hexrod stress graph? Ihaven't been ableto do this since the revisions were introduced several weeks ago. Is this a general, bugs-to-work-out type problem or just anothermanifestation of my computerilliteracy? I tried to cut and pste it onto another program but this wasway beyond my ken. Just so I'm understood, this program, and its recent improvements, haveimproved myunderstanding of rod tapers and their relationships to casting qualities toan astonishingextent and all the pages covered with figures just might be the thing thatwill cause my wife to finally take this obsession seriously. A little humorthere. Thanks,Davy from flyrod@artistree.com Sat Jun 6 20:52:12 1998 SAA18659 Subject: Re: glue for ferrules mac-creator="4D4F5353" John,Just recently there was article in The Planing Form #49 by John Zimnycalled"Adhesives Update #2" He mentions a Shell Epoxy formulation that wouldbe epoxieshave problems flexing. Shell Epon 8132 Resin & 3164 Curing Agent. (Available throughMiller- Stephenson Chemical @ 203-743-4447, and use a business namewhenordering.) I have been using it just a short time now so I can't vouch for how it'sgoinghold up in the long term. But so far so good. Got to warn you that it wasfairly expensive with haz-mat charges and what not. Think it was around$75 Best Regards,Chris Wohlford john channer wrote: At 01:02 PM 6/6/98 -0700, you wrote:Cyanoacrylate glues (super glue, crazy glue, etc.) are probably the MOSTunfitglue for ferrules because they have very low "shear strength" (faileasily from stressthat is perpendicular to the joint, i.e., "slip"). George Bourke George;It was there, I was pissed off, and it was my own rod.So far, so good. Ithas held longer than the ones I glued with Devcon. Accraglas seems toworko.k., I just wish I had kept notes or had a better memory, I can'trememberif I used Devcon or Accraglas on this rod that is coming back to me, and Isure don't want it to happen again. What have you had good resultswith?? John Channer from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sat Jun 6 21:03:18 1998 Subject: Re: The Hardy's C.C.de France Thanks, John, for the Hardy taper. Quite a nice write up.Regards,Richard Tyree from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sat Jun 6 22:25:04 1998 Subject: Re: glue for ferrules I'm trying out the shafting epoxy found in the Golfsmith catalog. It curesnice and flexible and has a nice pot life and teriffic consistancy to workwith. And to top it off, the two plunger mixing syringe actually works! I'vehad a glue failure with Devcon 2 ton but will continue to use it forreelseatsetc. where it won't be so stressed.I tried pliobond on two rods, the one with the loose ferrule (my rod thankgosh) and my Driggs copy. The Driggs has fished well with no looseness,theother has a little slop in the ferrule fit and let go. I believe here's wherethe expanding properties of epoxies come to the fore.Check out www.golfsmith.com to order their catalog. Rob Hoffhines from ragnarig@integrityol.com Sat Jun 6 23:12:20 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A4D0DB014E; Sat, 06 Jun 1998 21:19:28 PDT Subject: Re: hexrod print Dear Frank Thanks for your reply. I'm guessing this is the online Hexrod you are using. Correct None of the recent changes should affect whether a graph would print ornot. Once it gets displayed on your screen (I am assuming thismuch works), it is just a graphics (GIF) file on your PC's hard drive.You should be able to find recent gif files in your browsers cachedirectory; some of them will be hexrod graphs. Whatever you say, Frank :-) Are you able to print other pictures or graphics? Sure, no problem with Bjork photos or fly-tying diagrams etc. And when Iprint the stress graph, it prints the sideways "Stress (F(b))" on the leftand the "Inches from Tip" across the bottom, but no grid or curve. Did anything change in your setup, like a new browser program orprinter? Yep, changed servers and a different browser. Do you get any error messages? Does the little printer picture show upatthe bottomof the screen showing it is trying to print? No and no. Unless somebody has an extra insight, maybe we can do the debuggingbetweenus and not bore the rest of the list... I would sure apreciate it, Frank, as pictures have meaning for me, whilenumbers tend to give me a pain between my ears. When you start doing experiments in your basement that run for days,flexing cane strips back and forth with a motorized devise, then yourwife will know you are seriously obsessed :-) Oh, she knows. My refusal to sell the rods for more than a token price, ifanything (and of course I've kept about twenty) has got her talking to herfriends about me in low mutterings. That motorized cane-flexer thingmightjust be the one that runs her off for good. Are there plans available?Just, uh, kidding there. ThanksDavy from tbeckfam@pacbell.net Sat Jun 6 23:16:45 1998 mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id VAA15578 for Subject: Re: Braided Mason's line Dell wrote: Rick, I use 30 lb. Courtland braided nylon running line on a Garrison typebinder.Dell Coppock,"IN THE GREAT NORTHWEST"http://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail flyfisher@nextdim.com binder.-----Original Message-----From: Rick Crenshaw Date: Friday, June 05, 1998 1:52 PMSubject: Braided Mason's line Could anyone out there tell me a good source for the BRAIDED Mason'sline? I can't find it at any of the local hardware stores. All I canfind is the twisted nylon cords. Braided cords start at about 1/8"thickness - way too thick for running on a binder. If you have any better materials, I'd be interested in hearing aboutthat as well - that is if anyone else is still using a Garrison binder! TIA, Rick Rick, I use braided line for chalk lines. It is the perfect size and worksgreat. I think I read about it in Chris Bogart's article.Traver Becker from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Sun Jun 7 00:04:28 1998 ix14.ix.netcom.com via smap(V1.3) Subject: Dumb Donald Strikes Again! I just finished #4! A little 6'3", 5 wt. with a slip ring reelseat made from flame darkened maple with a bocote button on the butt and a 1/16"nickel plated brass spacer between the bacote button and the maplereelseat. The epoxy I used for glueing the reelseat had just cured goodand hard when I realized...I left the slip ring off!!! Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sun Jun 7 00:12:22 1998 with ESMTP id Subject: Re: glue for ferrules I haven't had to start looking for a "new" glue, yet (blush!). I stillhave a couple ofsticks of ***Herter's World's Best Ferrule Cement***. I really don't knowwhat thestuff is (a brown stick softened by heating)...but it hasn't failed *yet*on ferrules ortops and they are easy to remove (with heat). George Bourke ----------From: john channer Subject: Re: glue for ferrulesDate: Saturday, June 06, 1998 9:45 AM At 01:02 PM 6/6/98 -0700, you wrote:Cyanoacrylate glues (super glue, crazy glue, etc.) are probably the MOSTunfitglue for ferrules because they have very low "shear strength" (faileasily from stressthat is perpendicular to the joint, i.e., "slip"). George Bourke George;It was there, I was pissed off, and it was my own rod.So far, so good. Ithas held longer than the ones I glued with Devcon. Accraglas seems toworko.k., I just wish I had kept notes or had a better memory, I can'trememberif I used Devcon or Accraglas on this rod that is coming back to me, andIsure don't want it to happen again. What have you had good resultswith?? John Channer from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sun Jun 7 00:26:21 1998 with ESMTP id Subject: Re: glue for ferrules A quick note on epoxy storage and use:1) Freeze both parts until just the day before you intend to use2) Discard any unused resin and hardener after 6 months George Bourke ----------From: C.J. Wohlford Subject: Re: glue for ferrulesDate: Saturday, June 06, 1998 7:57 PM John,Just recently there was article in The Planing Form #49 by John Zimnycalled"Adhesives Update #2" He mentions a Shell Epoxy formulation that wouldbe epoxieshave problems flexing. Shell Epon 8132 Resin & 3164 Curing Agent. (Available throughMiller- Stephenson Chemical @ 203-743-4447, and use a business namewhenordering.) I have been using it just a short time now so I can't vouch for how it'sgoinghold up in the long term. But so far so good. Got to warn you that it wasfairly expensive with haz-mat charges and what not. Think it was around$75 Best Regards,Chris Wohlford from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Jun 7 00:49:33 1998 Subject: Re: glue for ferrules In a message dated 6/6/98 10:31:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time, irish- george@worldnet.att.net writes: A quick note on epoxy storage and use:1) Freeze both parts until just the day before you intend to use2) Discard any unused resin and hardener after 6 months I used to store epoxy in a refrigerator. I stopped doing it when somesolid white flakes started precipitating out of the resin. The epoxythen needed to be heated to get the flakes to dissolve. Now ifheat is supposed to deteriorate the properties of epoxy, whichis more harmful? Room temperature storage for a long time,or 150 to 160 F for 5 to 10 minutes? Most studies I've seen, notdone on epoxy I'll admit, say that higher heat, even for shortperiods is more harmful than low heat for longer periods. I've also have some epoxy that is over 2 years old and still seems fine to me. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Jun 7 00:52:28 1998 Subject: Re: glue for ferrules In a message dated 6/6/98 10:18:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time, irish- george@worldnet.att.net writes: I haven't had to start looking for a "new" glue, yet (blush!). I stillhave a couple ofsticks of ***Herter's World's Best Ferrule Cement***. I really don'tknowwhat thestuff is (a brown stick softened by heating)...but it hasn't failed *yet*on ferrules ortops and they are easy to remove (with heat). Gudebrod sells the same thing. I use it for tip tops, but haven'ttried it on ferrules yet. Others with more experience with itsay it does just fine on ferrules. Darryl Hayashida from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sun Jun 7 02:14:05 1998 with ESMTP id Subject: Re: glue for ferrules I've tried the Gudebrod product, and, while it is similar, it is morebrittle. George ----------From: SalarFly@aol.com Subject: Re: glue for ferrulesDate: Saturday, June 06, 1998 10:51 PM In a message dated 6/6/98 10:18:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time, irish- george@worldnet.att.net writes: I haven't had to start looking for a "new" glue, yet (blush!). I stillhave a couple ofsticks of ***Herter's World's Best Ferrule Cement***. I really don'tknowwhat thestuff is (a brown stick softened by heating)...but it hasn't failed*yet*on ferrules ortops and they are easy to remove (with heat). Gudebrod sells the same thing. I use it for tip tops, but haven'ttried it on ferrules yet. Others with more experience with itsay it does just fine on ferrules. Darryl Hayashida from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sun Jun 7 02:18:58 1998 with ESMTP id Subject: Re: glue for ferrules The recommendations I gave below are from our corporate "adhesivesguru".Without giving away any company secrets, the product that his expertiseisutilized on is subjected to shaker tables and temperature and humidityextremesbeyond those a human can survive in. Following his recommendations, weseldom ( From: SalarFly@aol.com Subject: Re: glue for ferrulesDate: Saturday, June 06, 1998 10:48 PM In a message dated 6/6/98 10:31:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time, irish- george@worldnet.att.net writes: A quick note on epoxy storage and use:1) Freeze both parts until just the day before you intend to use2) Discard any unused resin and hardener after 6 months I used to store epoxy in a refrigerator. I stopped doing it when somesolid white flakes started precipitating out of the resin. The epoxythen needed to be heated to get the flakes to dissolve. Now ifheat is supposed to deteriorate the properties of epoxy, whichis more harmful? Room temperature storage for a long time,or 150 to 160 F for 5 to 10 minutes? Most studies I've seen, notdone on epoxy I'll admit, say that higher heat, even for shortperiods is more harmful than low heat for longer periods. I've also have some epoxy that is over 2 years old and still seems fine to me. Darryl Hayashida from 106256.3171@compuserve.com Sun Jun 7 06:09:26 1998 Subject: Binders & millers Part 2 Thanks for the return mails re- Barry Granthams Millers and binders. I am sure Barry would be pleased to make binders and milling machines forother people as his main trade is as a machinist. I have given Barry a calland asked him to do a write up for us and send some photo's so I can scanand publish them. I am also in the process of changing internet provider toa company who can provide me with my own web pages and hope to publishmyown page with this info on in the next month or so, I will keep youinformed.Due to work commitments, I only check my mail on a weekend so please bepatient for any replies. I am pleased to be able to help anyone with this info, as the listers havealways been very helpful to me in the past. Regards Mick Woodruff. from anglport@con2.com Sun Jun 7 07:30:37 1998 Subject: Re: glue for ferrules George,Is that 6 mos after opening or 6 mos after purchase. If it's thelatter, I'm in serious financial straits as I laid in a bunch of small unitsof various kinds of epoxy awhile back at a going-out-of-business sale andthey're ALL over 6 mos old (probably were when I bought 'em!). I'llcertainly observe your warning in the future but I'd like an opinion on thestuff I already have.I'm learning that sales aren't always the best way to buy. I justtried to use a bunch of 4" x 24" sanding belts I bought in quantity from"Crapsman" a couple of years ago and the glue joints on the damn thingsletgo soon after the sander was turned on! Being a REAL dope I cut the thingsup for scrap use before I thought to return them to Sears.Glue, glue, that's what our lives seem to revolve around, eh?Art At 10:29 PM 6/6/98 -0700, you wrote:A quick note on epoxy storage and use:1) Freeze both parts until just the day before you intend to use2) Discard any unused resin and hardener after 6 months George Bourke ----------From: C.J. Wohlford Subject: Re: glue for ferrulesDate: Saturday, June 06, 1998 7:57 PM John,Just recently there was article in The Planing Form #49 by John Zimnycalled"Adhesives Update #2" He mentions a Shell Epoxy formulation thatwould be epoxieshave problems flexing. Shell Epon 8132 Resin & 3164 Curing Agent. (Available throughMiller- Stephenson Chemical @ 203-743-4447, and use a business namewhenordering.) I have been using it just a short time now so I can't vouch for how it'sgoinghold up in the long term. But so far so good. Got to warn you that it wasfairly expensive with haz-mat charges and what not. Think it wasaround$75 Best Regards,Chris Wohlford from channer@hubwest.com Sun Jun 7 08:43:20 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A92FA1E0212; Sun, 07 Jun 1998 07:44:15 MDT Subject: re: glue for ferrules Chris:Thanks for reminding me about the Shell formula, I had forgotten. Iordered Epon from a different source in Ca., can't remember the name rightnoe, but I think they said I could get as small a quantity as a pint fromthem. I e-mailed Shell the other day and described the problem I washavingand the materials I am wanting to bond and asked for theirrecommendation,I will probably hear back from them Mon. or Tues. If their chemistrecommends a different fromula, I will post it. Rob;This shafting epoxy sounds interesting, there must be a hell of a lot ofstress on a golf club,I'll check out the website and get their catalog.Thanks for the tip. George;Hmmm, ferrule cement. MAde for this use for years,tried and true, nowonderit hasn't occured to me to try it.Do you suppose the stuff you get now fromGudebrod is as good as the old Herter's that you have? Also, do you pin? BTW, Bill Fink says he is still using Epon that he has had for 10 years Guys;Thanks everyone for their help, I know this subject has been discussedheremore than once, but it is always helpfull to see if anyone has foundanything better recently. Regards to All John Channer from ragnarig@integrityol.com Sun Jun 7 09:28:38 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A5521F7014E; Sun, 07 Jun 1998 07:36:02 PDT Subject: Re: Dumb Donald Strikes Again! -----Original Message----- Subject: Dumb Donald Strikes Again! I just finished #4! A little 6'3", 5 wt. with a slip ring reelseat made from flame darkened maple with a bocote button on the butt and a 1/16"nickel plated brass spacer between the bacote button and the maplereelseat. The epoxy I used for glueing the reelseat had just cured goodand hard when I realized...I left the slip ring off!!! Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com Dear Onis Don't know if this'll help much, but Dumb David pulled the very samemaneuver about five rods ago. Davy from stpete@netten.net Sun Jun 7 11:38:29 1998 cedar.netten.net(8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA18743 for ;Sun, 7 Jun 1998 12:07:10 Subject: Re: Braided Mason's line Traver Becker wrote: Dell wrote: Rick, I use 30 lb. Courtland braided nylon running line on a Garrisontypebinder.Dell Coppock,"IN THE GREAT NORTHWEST"http://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail flyfisher@nextdim.com binder.-----Original Message-----From: Rick Crenshaw Date: Friday, June 05, 1998 1:52 PMSubject: Braided Mason's line Could anyone out there tell me a good source for the BRAIDED Mason'sline? I can't find it at any of the local hardware stores. All I canfind is the twisted nylon cords. Braided cords start at about 1/8"thickness - way too thick for running on a binder. If you have any better materials, I'd be interested in hearing aboutthat as well - that is if anyone else is still using a Garrison binder! TIA, Rick Rick, I use braided line for chalk lines. It is the perfect size and worksgreat. I think I read about it in Chris Bogart's article.Traver Becker That's what I'm looking for. Rick from harry37@epix.net Sun Jun 7 14:22:43 1998 SMTP id PAA01655 Subject: Re: glue for ferrules irish-george@worldnet.att.net wrote: I haven't had to start looking for a "new" glue, yet (blush!). I stillhave a couple ofsticks of ***Herter's World's Best Ferrule Cement***. I really don'tknowwhat thestuff is (a brown stick softened by heating)...but it hasn't failed *yet*on ferrules ortops and they are easy to remove (with heat). George BourkeGeorge, Have you ever used Bohning Ferr-l-tite? It's primarily used for hotgluing field tips and broadheads to tapered arrow shafts. I have usedit mostly for tip- tops and have only had one failure (unfortunatelyduring a float trip on the Madison)The only problem with ferr-l-tite is that you have to keep it very hot,and you have to shave small strips and slide them inside thetip-tops--only ever used it for repair of slipped ferrules, but haven'thad a problem. Greg from jczimny@dol.net Sun Jun 7 14:53:17 1998 Subject: wrongly dispatched message to group:Sorry for inadvertant message.John Zimny from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Sun Jun 7 15:13:27 1998 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id IAA28050 for ;Mon, 8 Jun 1998 08:13:17+1200 Subject: Re: glue for ferrules At 08:37 AM 7/06/98 -0400, you wrote:Just another small added complication to the glue discussion . In my otherlife I have an involvement in a business which makes large laiminatedtimberbeams , and therefore uses larges volumes of glue of various typesincludingepoxy . In our experience glue does "go off" and probably 1 batch in 10 isfaulty to some extent . But possibly more importantly from a rodmakers point of view is theinstructions we recieve from manufacturers that the liquid base of glueswill/can settle out and that we turn our drums every three days . I think itwas John had a problem a few months ago and this seemed to disappearonce hewas very careful with his mixing prior to use . In other words a glue may be suitable for a use , but incorrect storage inthe shop or the workshop may make it weak . Incidently mostmanufacturersinstructions on domestic quantities of glues do not put a large emphasisonthese storage problems . My comments based on making timber "rods" generally up to 30 metreslong andsizes of 1.5 metres by .5 metres , slightly greater tolerences then theaverage rod . Regards Iank George,Is that 6 mos after opening or 6 mos after purchase. If it's thelatter, I'm in serious financial straits as I laid in a bunch of small units. Glue, glue, that's what our lives seem to revolve around, eh?Art At 10:29 PM 6/6/98 -0700, you wrote:A quick note on epoxy storage and use:1) Freeze both parts until just the day before you intend to use2) Discard any unused resin and hardener after 6 months George Bourke ----------From: C.J. Wohlford Subject: Re: glue for ferrulesDate: Saturday, June 06, 1998 7:57 PM John,Just recently there was article in The Planing Form #49 by John Zimnycalled"Adhesives Update #2" He mentions a Shell Epoxy formulation thatwould be epoxieshave problems flexing. Shell Epon 8132 Resin & 3164 Curing Agent. (Available throughMiller- Stephenson Chemical @ 203-743-4447, and use a business namewhenordering.) I have been using it just a short time now so I can't vouch for how it'sgoinghold up in the long term. But so far so good. Got to warn you that it wasfairly expensive with haz-mat charges and what not. Think it wasaround$75 Best Regards,Chris Wohlford Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Sun Jun 7 15:13:29 1998 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id IAA28076 for ;Mon, 8 Jun 1998 08:13:21+1200 Subject: Re: Anybody got a Hardy? Chris and Davy, I got back one of my 10' Hardy rods on the weekend and ran the mic over it.It s "the Pope " built in the early 1950's. It is a rod I intend to restoreand not in great condition at this point in time . It is described as a dryfly rod and has a very nice "feel" to it . Unfortunately it is missing thetip at the moment so I have not been able to test it for line weight but itfeels ( I guess) it is a relatively light weight .The varnish is a littlerough and may have been overcoated at some time . It is probably thickerthen normal, and the dimensions would tend to confirm this . Thesemeasurements are based on averaging two faces. 1" .1175" .12410" .13715" .16920" .18125" .20030" .21635" .22040" .23645" .24455" .25658" .27160" ferrule (58-62)65" .29970" .30775" .31680" .32685" .33990" .34695" .354100" .370105" .378107 handle handle 1'1" long regards Iank At 07:22 PM 17/05/98 -0700, you wrote:Dear Ian Thanks very much indeed for that taper- and thank you, Chris, forrequestingit! I, for one, would be most interested in seeing the stats for aten-footer. I'm keen on these rods whether for trout or salmon.Sentimental attachment too corny to divulge. If you don't have time to convert to English, just shoot me the metricdata.I can hash it out on my little HP in a few seconds. I would be cosmicallygrateful :-) Davy Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz from FLYROD777@aol.com Sun Jun 7 17:41:06 1998 Subject: Re: Reel Seat question I used string and impregnated it with devcon exopy. Depending on the gapdetermines the string size. There are allot of good ways to do this. Justexperiment. Mark Hallowell from ragnarig@integrityol.com Sun Jun 7 17:42:42 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A92B3880132; Sun, 07 Jun 1998 15:50:19 PDT Subject: Re: Anybody got a Hardy? Dear Ian Another big old Hardy- fantastic! These tapers are helping me to fill a great big hole in my taper library,and are very educational when compared and contrasted with other typesbyother makers. Anybody else got a Hardy? Gratefully,Davy from FLYROD777@aol.com Sun Jun 7 17:53:26 1998 Subject: Re: Braided Mason's line Dell Where do you get the braided line? Mark hallowellflyrod777@aol.comflyrod6@juno.com from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sun Jun 7 20:57:02 1998 Subject: Re: Dumb Donald Strikes Again! In a message dated 98-06-07 01:06:47 EDT, you write: Onis - One of the required rites of passage. Been there, done that :- )Regards,Richard from channer@hubwest.com Sun Jun 7 23:29:12 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A90412CC0292; Sun, 07 Jun 1998 22:31:00 MDT Subject: Re: Braided Mason's line At 06:52 PM 6/7/98 EDT, you wrote:Dell Where do you get the braided line? Mark hallowellflyrod777@aol.comflyrod6@juno.com Mark, and anyone else looking for braided mason's line;If you guys can't find it at a hardware store or lumber yard,try looking ata concrete contractors supply house. Most of the flourescent layout line isround braided, but some is hollow braided and works great for drive belt. Ieven soak it in vinegar to clean epon off and use it again. John Channer from tbeckfam@pacbell.net Sun Jun 7 23:58:46 1998 mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id VAA18085 for Subject: Re: Braided Mason's line Rick Crenshaw wrote: Traver Becker wrote: Dell wrote: Rick, I use 30 lb. Courtland braided nylon running line on a Garrisontypebinder.Dell Coppock,"IN THE GREAT NORTHWEST"http://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail flyfisher@nextdim.com binder.-----Original Message-----From: Rick Crenshaw Date: Friday, June 05, 1998 1:52 PMSubject: Braided Mason's line Could anyone out there tell me a good source for the BRAIDEDMason'sline? I can't find it at any of the local hardware stores. All I canfind is the twisted nylon cords. Braided cords start at about 1/8"thickness - way too thick for running on a binder. If you have any better materials, I'd be interested in hearing aboutthat as well - that is if anyone else is still using a Garrison binder! TIA, Rick Rick, I use braided line for chalk lines. It is the perfect size and worksgreat. I think I read about it in Chris Bogart's article.Traver Becker That's what I'm looking for. Rick I bought mine in the tool section at the hardware store. It is arefill spool for the chalk line.Traver Becker from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Mon Jun 8 01:58:50 1998 mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net(InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with ESMTP Subject: Re: glue for ferrules Unfortunately, it is 6 mos after manufacture! George Bourke ----------From: Art Port Subject: Re: glue for ferrulesDate: Sunday, June 07, 1998 5:37 AM George,Is that 6 mos after opening or 6 mos after purchase. If it's thelatter, I'm in serious financial straits as I laid in a bunch of smallunitsof various kinds of epoxy awhile back at a going-out-of-business saleandthey're ALL over 6 mos old (probably were when I bought 'em!). I'llcertainly observe your warning in the future but I'd like an opinion onthestuff I already have.I'm learning that sales aren't always the best way to buy. I justtried to use a bunch of 4" x 24" sanding belts I bought in quantity from"Crapsman" a couple of years ago and the glue joints on the damn thingsletgo soon after the sander was turned on! Being a REAL dope I cut thethingsup for scrap use before I thought to return them to Sears.Glue, glue, that's what our lives seem to revolve around, eh?Art At 10:29 PM 6/6/98 -0700, you wrote:A quick note on epoxy storage and use:1) Freeze both parts until just the day before you intend to use2) Discard any unused resin and hardener after 6 months George Bourke ----------From: C.J. Wohlford Subject: Re: glue for ferrulesDate: Saturday, June 06, 1998 7:57 PM John,Just recently there was article in The Planing Form #49 by JohnZimnycalled"Adhesives Update #2" He mentions a Shell Epoxy formulation thatwouldbe epoxieshave problems flexing. Shell Epon 8132 Resin & 3164 Curing Agent. (Available throughMiller- Stephenson Chemical @ 203-743-4447, and use a businessnamewhenordering.) I have been using it just a short time now so I can't vouch for howit'sgoinghold up in the long term. But so far so good. Got to warn you that itwasfairly expensive with haz-mat charges and what not. Think it wasaround$75 Best Regards,Chris Wohlford from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Mon Jun 8 02:07:11 1998 mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net(InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with ESMTP Subject: Re: glue for ferrules Actually, most industrial adhesives have a printed expiration date. Onepoxies, itis generally a year (which is optimistic)...back off the printed date by 6months. George Bourke ----------From: Art Port Subject: Re: glue for ferrulesDate: Sunday, June 07, 1998 5:37 AM George,Is that 6 mos after opening or 6 mos after purchase. If it's thelatter, I'm in serious financial straits as I laid in a bunch of smallunitsof various kinds of epoxy awhile back at a going-out-of-business saleandthey're ALL over 6 mos old (probably were when I bought 'em!). I'llcertainly observe your warning in the future but I'd like an opinion onthestuff I already have.I'm learning that sales aren't always the best way to buy. I justtried to use a bunch of 4" x 24" sanding belts I bought in quantity from"Crapsman" a couple of years ago and the glue joints on the damn thingsletgo soon after the sander was turned on! Being a REAL dope I cut thethingsup for scrap use before I thought to return them to Sears.Glue, glue, that's what our lives seem to revolve around, eh?Art At 10:29 PM 6/6/98 -0700, you wrote:A quick note on epoxy storage and use:1) Freeze both parts until just the day before you intend to use2) Discard any unused resin and hardener after 6 months George Bourke ----------From: C.J. Wohlford Subject: Re: glue for ferrulesDate: Saturday, June 06, 1998 7:57 PM John,Just recently there was article in The Planing Form #49 by JohnZimnycalled"Adhesives Update #2" He mentions a Shell Epoxy formulation thatwouldbe epoxieshave problems flexing. Shell Epon 8132 Resin & 3164 Curing Agent. (Available throughMiller- Stephenson Chemical @ 203-743-4447, and use a businessnamewhenordering.) I have been using it just a short time now so I can't vouch for howit'sgoinghold up in the long term. But so far so good. Got to warn you that itwasfairly expensive with haz-mat charges and what not. Think it wasaround$75 Best Regards,Chris Wohlford from flyrod@artistree.com Mon Jun 8 03:30:29 1998 BAA12200 Subject: Winston Rod Building mac-creator="4D4F5353" Well for some strange reason I kept running into articles about Winston's(GlennBrackett & Comrades) rod building this past weekend and it left mecuriousabout a some of their procedures. Wondered if anyone on the list had anycomments or clarification. 1) Apparently they hang the freshly glued up blanks in a heated? cabinet(orsomething similar) with a 4 lb weight hanging from the tips for one year.Aftera year they sand/scrape and build the rods. Does anyone think this weightandtime period would be beneficial? 2) Apparently they also purposely reintroduce and stabilize a certainamount ofmoisture content back into the rod blanks. We've been down this roadbefore butI wonder what percentage they are using? 3) Of course Winston's rods are hallow built. Anyone ot there seen across- section? They're not using L. Stoner's old hollow built technique arethey? If anything it's food for thought. Best Regards,Chris "as if I haven't got enough to think about" Wohlford from flyrod@artistree.com Mon Jun 8 03:38:59 1998 BAA12466 Subject: Re: Anybody got a Hardy? mac-creator="4D4F5353" Ian ,"The Pope???" Man, I gotta start comming up with names like this. Onceagain,thanks:-) Best Regards,Chris Wohlford from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Mon Jun 8 06:04:36 1998 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id XAA23014 for ;Mon, 8 Jun 1998 23:04:24+1200 Subject: Re: Anybody got a Hardy? Chris , Initially I thought it must have been "The Popular " with part of the namerubbed off , but looked it up and found it was built between 1899 and 1970so one of their longer running models . I think I will call my next rod " a customer" so when I am going fishingduring the week I will be able to say I am out with a customer regards iankAt 01:44 AM 8/06/98 -0800, you wrote: Ian ,"The Pope???" Man, I gotta start comming up with names like this. Onceagain,thanks:-) Best Regards,Chris Wohlford Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz from aalin@juno.com Mon Jun 8 06:11:54 1998 07:10:55 EDT Subject: Thanks for the help Thanks for the help guys.... Now I can join the talk again ;) Jason _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Mon Jun 8 08:08:48 1998 post (8.8.7/8.6.11) withSMTP id OAA11440 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 199814:09:11 +0100 Subject: Re: The Hardy's C.C.de France At 07:33 06/06/98 -0700, you wrote:Dear John I've been up two hours working on this (and eating breakfast) and have togofishing now, but just wanted to tell you how grateful I am. Really - no problem. You ought to take a look at the stress curve, John. Just cut and pastewiththe new option on the Hexrod program. It is a moderate slope, descending from rght to left, meaning that the taper is highly parabolic. There are acople of peaks in the butt section, rather toward the ferrule. When Ifirst read your numbers, I thought, "Payne". Sure enough, look at the Payne 7ft 9in taper in the archive. Just a coupleof variations, but extremely similar tapers. When you get this fellowstrung up, I'd be very interested in your impressions of its castingqualities. I'm thinking of its roll-casting abilities, but this can easilybe tweaked up a bit. You ought to take a look at the stress curve, John. Just cut and pastewiththe new option on the Hexrod program. It is a moderate slope, descending from rght to left, meaning that the taper is highly parabolic. There are acople of peaks in the butt section, rather toward the ferrule. When Ifirst read your numbers, I thought, "Payne". Sure enough, look at the Payne 7ft 9in taper in the archive. Just a coupleof variations, but extremely similar tapers. When you get this fellowstrung up, I'd be very interested in your impressions of its castingqualities. I'm thinking of its roll-casting abilities, but this can easilybe tweaked up a bit. Interesting: I guess the wheel has been invented many times, andalways comes out sort of round. I'm no great caster, but I'll letyou know how I get on. I just wish I were good enough to offer meaningfulcomment. Tweaking: Well yes. There's a certain heresy in the thought of'tweaking' a famous Hardy's taper, but of course, you're absolutelyright. I imagine Hardy's would have used Hexrod to spot tuningpossibilities, if they'd had such a facility when they were makingbamboo rods in quantity. Even Cattanach's much considered tapershave been 'tuned' on occasions. Didn't Sir Darryl Hayashida do a littlesorting on the tip section? John Cooper (England) from dpeaston@wzrd.com Mon Jun 8 09:06:22 1998 mail.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) Subject: Re: Dumb Donald Strikes Again! At 09:56 PM 6/7/98 EDT, Fallcreek9@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 98- 06-07 01:06:47 EDT, you write: and hard when I realized...I left the slip ring off!!! Onis - One of the required rites of passage. Been there, done that :- )Regards,Richard Onis, Yes, I too have done this deed. If your seat has a metal butt cap it may befairly easy to remove. Try heat or at worst boiling water. Epoxy or ferrulecement should come lose. Then you can slid the band on. and replace thecap. Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Jun 8 11:24:18 1998 0500 Subject: Lathe help? Friends,I'm trying to learn to use a small metal working lathe, andhave checked out the books from the library. I even looked into aclass at the local vo-tech, to no avail. No one teaches basicmetalworking around here these days. Even if they did, most of theclass would not be applicable. A simple question arises, I hope.What do you use in the way of lathe toolbits when cutting ferrulestations, turning reelseat fillers and so on? My best educated guessis that you use either a style "E" or "ER - EL" bit specially ground,but I have no idea how to accurately do this grinding and maintain anydegree of sharpness to the edge. I know I can order these toolbits from Enco or MSC, and any guidance will be greatly appreciated.Thanks in advance, Harry from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Jun 8 11:49:04 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Lathe help? http://www.atsc-army.org/cqi-bin/atdl.dll/tc/9-524/toc.htm ----------From: Harry Boyd[SMTP:fbcwin@fsbnet.com] Sent: Monday, June 08, 1998 9:22 AM Subject: Lathe help? Friends,I'm trying to learn to use a small metal working lathe, andhave checked out the books from the library. I even looked into aclass at the local vo-tech, to no avail. No one teaches basicmetalworking around here these days. Even if they did, most of theclass would not be applicable. A simple question arises, I hope.What do you use in the way of lathe toolbits when cutting ferrulestations, turning reelseat fillers and so on? My best educated guessis that you use either a style "E" or "ER - EL" bit specially ground,but I have no idea how to accurately do this grinding and maintain anydegree of sharpness to the edge. I know I can order these toolbits from Enco or MSC, and any guidance will be greatly appreciated.Thanks in advance, Harry from thramer@presys.com Mon Jun 8 11:54:42 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Lathe help? Harry Boyd wrote: Friends,I'm trying to learn to use a small metal working lathe, andhave checked out the books from the library. I even looked into aclass at the local vo-tech, to no avail. No one teaches basicmetalworking around here these days. Even if they did, most of theclass would not be applicable. A simple question arises, I hope.What do you use in the way of lathe toolbits when cutting ferrulestations, turning reelseat fillers and so on? My best educated guessis that you use either a style "E" or "ER - EL" bit specially ground,but I have no idea how to accurately do this grinding and maintain anydegree of sharpness to the edge. I know I can order these toolbits from Enco or MSC, and any guidance will be greatly appreciated.Thanks in advance, HarryHarry,Contact Sherline at their internet site. Good basic instruction thatyou can download and they also sell a good basic pb book.A.J.Thramer from thramer@presys.com Mon Jun 8 12:09:03 1998 0000 Subject: Ferrule My glue failure rate has been low as a percentage of ferrules BUT thesinking feeling is not a plus as the failure is VERY important to theangler using the rod. I had a ferrule glue fail with one of the bamboowriter gurus a few years ago! There is NO recovery from that position.The failure rate was quite constant no matter what the glue was. Thetwo main groupings are no pin epoxy joints. Almost always a male pulloff on a three piece rod with a truncated ferrule at the tip section.The glue area is small on these little 8 and 9 ferrules, and I think ithad the most to do with the failure.The second type was with ferrule cement and a pin, often repaired inthe field with a lighter or a match and the angler can send the sectionback at his convenience. The ferrule is the weak link in any rod, it is now, it was then andwill be in the future. from heating the ferrule and driving it home to the relatively loosefit for epoxy room there has always been the occasional failure.This is from the experience of 2-3 hundred rods with maybe a third ofthem three piece rods.A.J.thramer from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Jun 8 12:12:27 1998 (5.0.1458.49) http://www.atsc-army.org/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/tc/9-524/toc.htm from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon Jun 8 13:03:44 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA281539016; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 11:03:37 -0700 Subject: Re: glue for ferrules Greg, I recently used the Bohning Ferr-l-tite on ferrules for a 6' 4 wt., and also pinned the ferrules. I fished the heck out of it this last weekend with no problems. Of course I suppose that doesn't qualify for a stress test quite yet. There was an earlier product sold in archery shops a few years back that came in a cardboard tube and called "Ferr-L-Tite". It is much easier to use as it melts at a lower heat and liquifies better. The newer Bohning "Ferr- L-Tite" is more difficult to melt. I use the same methods you do for tip tops (little shavings placed in the stem, then melted). This stuff has great gap filling properties, not that we have any space in our ferrule and tiptop stations, right? It is also nice to remove with a simple alchohol burner. I believe if it will hold a broadhead on an arrow that was shot into a tree,whereby the shaft blew apart it must have a pretty good shear strength. Bamboo is much denser than cedar however, so it also makes sense that as with any surface, porosity must make it stick better. I rough up the surface a little before glueing on a broadhead. A very smooth inner ferrule surface might make it difficult for any adhesive to stick well. Minute ridges on the innards of a ferrule might make for a stronger bond. Maybe some sort of lathe trick where you could score the inside a little. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Jun 8 14:28:33 1998 Subject: Ferrules - Calling all ferrules The editor of "The Bamboo Flyrod Magazine" asked meto name all the ferrule makers I know of, and just a coupleof weeks ago I had asked the same question on this list out of curiosity. I only had a couple of responses. The reason he asked is he is going to have an evaluation of ferrules in the Nov./Dec. magazine. This includes individual craftsmen thatmake ferrules and are willing to sell them to the rod buildingcommunity. If you make ferrules or know of anybody who doesand might be interested in getting a lot of exposure in this magazine contact Mark Metcalf at: bam-fly@pacbell.net Usual disclaimers - not affiliated, etc, yet. This magazine isn't particularly oriented towards bamboo rodmaking, so I've been making a pest of myself emailing them and suggesting rodmaking topics for publication. They might just give up and give me something to do for the magazine to get me out of their hair. Guys, he is interested in anything he can get about bamboo rods. If he gets more stuff on rodmaking, there will be more stuff on rodmaking in the magazine. If you have an idea for a rod making oriented article, write it and submit it to him. This might be your best chance to get an article published in this magazine. If the magazine is a success later on it will be more difficult to get an article published, and if it isn't, thenit won't be around to publish your article. Being realistic about though, we as rod makers are a fairly small part of the already small bamboo rod audience, and he has to try and appeal to the larger audience. But,if he gets more contributions from us, then perhaps we can get morerod making articles published. Come to think about it, it doesn't even have to be about bamboo rodmaking. Anything about bamboo rods at all. I know it will be dulyconsidered. Darryl Hayashida from RVenneri@aol.com Mon Jun 8 14:40:08 1998 Subject: Re: Lathe help? Harry,I noticed that you are in need of some help choosing lathe tools. Ifpossible you should try to use tool holders with carbide inserts. This waywhen the tool gets dull you just turn the insert or change the insert. Ifyouhave a msc catalog let me know I will try to give you page # or part # oftheinserts I use. Also if you would like email or send me a drawing of whatyouare making and I will try to help you as much as I can.Best Regards, Bob VVenneri's Custom Components21 chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882 from hall@Summa4.COM Mon Jun 8 15:11:59 1998 custsrv1.vitts.com(Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) 1998 20:11:47 UT with ESMTP id QAA15327 for ; Mon, 8 Jun summa4.summa4.com(8.8.5/8.7.1) with SMTP id QAA12630 for ;Mon, 8 Jun 1998 16:11:41 Subject: Re: glue for ferrules Greg and Chris,I have used the Bohning Ferr-l-tite product for adhering target tipstoport oxford cedar for 4 years. I've noticed a aging issue in thisapplication. My tips would easily fracture off at the glue point, aftera years time, expecially in the cold.There are certainly different forces at work here between the head-onarrow impact, and the more sutle but consistent flexing of the bamboo,does anyone have any longterm data on using this product in coolertemperatures? Regards,Dan from fcfp@ix.netcom.com Mon Jun 8 15:13:40 1998 ix9.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) 3303@ix.netcom.com, Camp@ix.netcom.com, Hill@ix.netcom.com,PA@ix.netcom.com, 17011@ix.netcom.com Subject: Varnish I've been lurking for several years now but am about ready to dosomething serious. I did have a very interesting conversation today with Mary Sutherland of"Sutherland and Wells. Ltd" varnishes and tung oil finishes -- as seenin Garrett Wade catalogs. I do not remember this name being mentionedin past finish threads This is a 2 person company -- she and David Wells -- (hence Sutherlandand Wells) that is committed to providing high end finishes that appearto be worthy of a look from folks like us. Mary was extremelyknowledgeable and helpful. She is also a flyfisher-"person" and ownerof at least one cane rod that has been in the family for over 70 years.Did not ask what... The only two sources are Garrett Wade and them. Very easy to deal with. I confess to being a "dummy" in these things but would suggest a call tothem at 800-322-1245 to find out their "story". Usual disclaimers at tono commercial interest. from harry37@epix.net Mon Jun 8 15:20:19 1998 SMTP id QAA11145 Subject: Re: glue for ferrules CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: Greg, I recently used the Bohning Ferr-l-tite on ferrules for a 6' 4 wt., andalso pinned the ferrules. I fished the heck out of it this last weekendwith no problems. Of course I suppose that doesn't qualify for a stresstest quite yet. There was an earlier product sold in archery shops a fewyears back that came in a cardboard tube and called "Ferr-L-Tite". It ismuch easier to use as it melts at a lower heat and liquifies better. Thenewer Bohning "Ferr- L-Tite" is more difficult to melt. I use the samemethods you do for tip tops (little shavings placed in the stem, thenmelted). This stuff has great gap filling properties, not that we haveanyspace in our ferrule and tiptop stations, right? It is also nice to removewith a simple alchohol burner. I believe if it will hold a broadhead on an arrow that was shot into atree,whereby the shaft blew apart it must have a pretty good shear strength.Bamboo is much denser than cedar however, so it also makes sense thataswith any surface, porosity must make it stick better. I rough up thesurface a little before glueing on a broadhead. A very smooth innerferrule surface might make it difficult for any adhesive to stick well.Minute ridges on the innards of a ferrule might make for a stronger bond.Maybe some sort of lathe trick where you could score the inside a little. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu Chris--All I've ever used is the stuff in the cardboard tube--got 1 stickleft. Better not waste it on arrows! Greg from harry37@epix.net Mon Jun 8 15:24:01 1998 SMTP id QAA15316 Subject: Re: glue for ferrules Dan Hall wrote: Greg and Chris,I have used the Bohning Ferr-l-tite product for adhering target tipstoport oxford cedar for 4 years. I've noticed a aging issue in thisapplication. My tips would easily fracture off at the glue point, aftera years time, expecially in the cold.There are certainly different forces at work here between thehead-onarrow impact, and the more sutle but consistent flexing of the bamboo,does anyone have any longterm data on using this product in coolertemperatures? Regards,Dan Good point---Come to think of it, the combination of aging, cold, and repeated targetimpact for field tips would all probably play a part. I probably haveone in 10-12 arrows every year that the tips simply fall off afterrepeated target impacts, so maybe it's not as good as I think. Greg from jczimny@dol.net Mon Jun 8 15:33:02 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrules - Calling all ferrules As far as I know. There are only three makers in existence.1. Baily Wood2. Grahm Maisey's brother.3. Rodon/Cortland --I don't know anyone selling these.That's it.John Zimny from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Mon Jun 8 16:02:49 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id QAA04039 for; Mon, 8 (8.8.4/8.6.8) with SMTP idQAA02363 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 16:02:47 - Subject: Re: Varnish There is another Sutherland-Welles finish which I don't think is in the Garrett- Wade catalog, which might have possibilities forrodmaking. See http://www.intool.com/swelles.htm Sure sounds good on paper :- )......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Mon, 8 Jun 1998, Fred Bohls, CFP wrote: I did have a very interesting conversation today with Mary Sutherland of"Sutherland and Wells. Ltd" varnishes and tung oil finishes -- as seenin Garrett Wade catalogs. I do not remember this name being mentionedin past finish threads from MICK@welfen-netz.com Mon Jun 8 16:22:45 1998 [195.143.56.1] with SMTP(MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Mon, 08 Jun1998 23:28:04 +0200 Subject: Re: Lathe help? 7741D0F98D5305903E6CEDD8" --------------7741D0F98D5305903E6CEDD8 Coffey, Patrick W wrote: http://www.atsc-army.org/cqi-bin/atdl.dll/tc/9-524/toc.htm please check url! My browser told me: Object Not Found =;-(Mick ----------From: Harry Boyd[SMTP:fbcwin@fsbnet.com] Sent: Monday, June 08, 1998 9:22 AM Subject: Lathe help? Friends,I'm trying to learn to use a small metal working lathe, andhave checked out the books from the library. I even looked into aclass at the local vo-tech, to no avail. No one teaches basicmetalworking around here these days. Even if they did, most of theclass would not be applicable. A simple question arises, I hope.What do you use in the way of lathe toolbits when cutting ferrulestations, turning reelseat fillers and so on? My best educated guessis that you use either a style "E" or "ER - EL" bit specially ground,but I have no idea how to accurately do this grinding and maintain anydegree of sharpness to the edge. I know I can order these toolbits from Enco or MSC, and any guidance will be greatly appreciated.Thanks in advance, Harry --------------7741D0F98D5305903E6CEDD8 Coffey, Patrick W wrote: http://www.atsc-army.org/cqi-bin/atdl.dll/tc/9-524/toc.htmplease check url! My browser told me: Object Not Found =;-(Mick ---------- Boyd[SMTP:fbcwin@fsbnet.com] June08, 1998 9:22 AM Friends, learnto use a small metal working lathe, and into a metalworking around here these days. Even if they did, most of the hope.What do you use in the way of lathe toolbits when cutting ferrule guess ground,but I have no idea how to accurately do this grinding and maintainany toolbits from Enco or MSC, and any guidance will be greatly appreciated. --------------7741D0F98D5305903E6CEDD8-- from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Jun 8 16:48:34 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrules - Calling all ferrules In a message dated 6/8/98 1:33:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time,jczimny@dol.netwrites: As far as I know. There are only three makers in existence.1. Baily Wood2. Grahm Maisey's brother.3. Rodon/Cortland --I don't know anyone selling these.That's it.John Zimny Thanks, that's all I could come up with also. Maybe this could stimulatesomeone to start making them.....Darryl Hayashida from flyfisher@nextdim.com Mon Jun 8 17:10:38 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id AFBD29CB017A; Mon, 08 Jun 1998 15:03:41 PDT Subject: Re: Lathe help? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01BD92EF.B29CC720" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BD92EF.B29CC720 put a hyphen between atdl and dll instead of a dot-Dell Coppock,"IN THE GREAT NORTHWEST"http://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail flyfisher@nextdim.com----Original Message-----From: Michael M=FCller Date: Monday, June 08, 1998 2:17 PMSubject: Re: Lathe help? http://www.atsc-army.org/cqi-bin/atdl.dll/tc/9-524/toc.htm I'm trying to learn to use a small metal working = have checked out the books from the library. I even looked = class at the local vo-tech, to no avail. No one teaches basic = metalworking around here these days. Even if they did, most of = class would not be applicable. A simple question arises, I = What do you use in the way of lathe toolbits when cutting = stations, turning reelseat fillers and so on? My best = is that you use either a style "E" or "ER - EL" bit specially = but I have no idea how to accurately do this grinding and = degree of sharpness to the edge. I know I can order these = from Enco or MSC, and any guidance will be greatly = ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BD92EF.B29CC720 put a hyphen between atdl and dll= dot -Dell Coppock,"IN THE= flyfisher@nextdim.com----Origin= Message-----From: Michael Müller <MICK@welfen- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= http:=//www.atsc-army.org/cqi-bin/atdl.dll/tc/9-524/toc.htmple= &= Friends, = ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BD92EF.B29CC720-- from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Jun 8 18:12:21 1998 head.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA09887; Mon, 8 Jun1998 19:12:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Ferrules - Calling all ferrules Darryl I have heard that Grahmne's brother has stopped making them(retired) and now the count is down to one! Not a good thought! Chris On Mon, 8 Jun 1998 17:47:58 EDT, SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 6/8/98 1:33:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time,jczimny@dol.netwrites: As far as I know. There are only three makers in existence.1. Baily Wood2. Grahm Maisey's brother.3. Rodon/Cortland --I don't know anyone selling these.That's it.John Zimny Thanks, that's all I could come up with also. Maybe this could stimulatesomeone to start making them.....Darryl Hayashida from fiveside@net-gate.com Mon Jun 8 18:12:38 1998 (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA14392 for ;Mon, 8 Jun 1998 19:11:19 Subject: Modulus of Elasticity To the list,Tried to send this to Ed Estlow and Daryll but had delivery problems sowill try senting via the list. Sorry about using the bandwidth.This FLYROD software will output modulus of elasticity for any hexsample,inputting: diameter at small end, diameter at large end, length of segment,deflection weight and deflection. It will also do a whole of other thingslike 4,5 and 6 side tapers and stress curves. It will handle things likeswelled butts, ferrule placement, varying cane density, 4,5 and 6stiffnesscomparisons. It was written by Len Histand of Doylestown PA and wasoffered Len's permission, but I think it would be OK for me to process your inputs.Len's notes include suggestions as to how to run modulus of elasticitytestswhich I could send. Save making up samples and would work on any rod, oldornew. Possibly others on the list also have this FLYROD software. Bill from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Jun 8 18:36:51 1998 Subject: Fwd: virus alert! boundary="part0_897348965_boundary" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_897348965_boundary --part0_897348965_boundary LesYoung@aol.com,MAPKO333@aol.com, Troutbum4@aol.com, Loscare@aol.com,Dmrenton1@aol.com,Gittone@aol.com, Flyrodbob@aol.com, GatorFrog@aol.com,BKremers@aol.com,Grhghlndr@aol.com, BenFlyFshn@aol.com, Gcaddis@aol.com,GeneralFly@aol.com, gene@astreet.com, Dzoonokwa@aol.com,Adamec@aol.com,PAMSRAM4X4@aol.com, Fshrfun@aol.com, budgaut@bigfoot.com,MsLabeda2U@aol.com, BFHoopley@aol.com, STONEFLIE@aol.com,Jilliegurl@aol.com, Tinadana@aol.com, MissPam538@aol.com,Sexy29Gal@aol.com, ateter@jett.net, RV4666COL@aol.com,Sabra101@aol.com,PARISRAYNE@aol.comSubject: Fwd: virus alert! boundary="part1_897348965_boundary" --part1_897348965_boundary --part1_897348965_boundary EURO1950@aol.com,Bud746@aol.com, Pittrout@aol.comSubject: Fwd: virus alert! boundary="part2_897348965_boundary" --part2_897348965_boundary --part2_897348965_boundary Subject: Fwd: virus alert! boundary="part3_897348965_boundary" --part3_897348965_boundary jdc --part3_897348965_boundary TaazCG@aol.com,DCSE8@aol.com, ROBY51@aol.com, MRSLY42@aol.comSubject: Fwd: virus alert! boundary="part4_897348965_boundary" --part4_897348965_boundary --part4_897348965_boundary Rebe9468@aol.com,JanaKathy@aol.com, CABOCHIK@aol.com, GMTZ@IX.NETCOM.COM,LeslieCone@aol.comSubject: Fwd: virus alert! boundary="part5_897348965_boundary" --part5_897348965_boundary --part5_897348965_boundary billwalk@oregon.uoregon.edu,KiloPlt@aol.com, RockRheino@aol.com, Dansock@aol.com,dstarr@redshift.com, thompson@hop- uky.campus.mci.net,KanoraKatz@aol.com,PVTI@sprynet.com, DAPSTER23@aol.com, CLINT10162@aol.com,JSimo99919@aol.com, 4mrstar@vernonia.com, LAKEJEWEL@aol.com,sybil6@juno.com, RussoPD@usfk.korea.army.mil, KADE@ANV.NET,106574.2300@compuserve.com, ARIASJL@aol.com,140lopez@cmc.net,RRRBORG@aol.com, AirASLT@aol.comSubject: Fwd: virus alert! boundary="part6_897348965_boundary" --part6_897348965_boundary --part6_897348965_boundary Clarks101@aol.comSubject: Fwd: virus alert! boundary="part7_897348965_boundary" --part7_897348965_boundary --part7_897348965_boundary Fassett@aol.com,ItsMe86@aol.com, GatewooDon@aol.comSubject: Fwd: virus alert! boundary="part8_897348965_boundary" --part8_897348965_boundary --part8_897348965_boundary GBoveejr@aol.com,ARAMITO@aol.com, JPuddly2@aol.comSubject: Fwd: virus alert! boundary="part9_897348965_boundary" --part9_897348965_boundary --part9_897348965_boundary Subject: virus alert! DANGER!!! VIRUS ALERT!!! This is a new twist. Someone is sending out a very desirable screen-saver- the Budweiser Frogs. But if you download it, you will loseeverything!!!Your hard drive will crash!!! DON'T DOWNLOAD THIS UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!!! IT JUST WENT INTO CIRCULATION YESTERDAY, AS FAR AS WE KNOW....BECAREFUL. PLEASE DISTRIBUTE THIS TO AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE...THANXBELOW ISWHATTHE SCREENSAVER OFFER WOULD LOOK LIKE! File: BUDSAVER.EXE (24643 bytes)DL Time (28800 bps): > --part9_897348965_boundary-- --part8_897348965_boundary-- --part7_897348965_boundary-- --part6_897348965_boundary-- --part5_897348965_boundary-- --part4_897348965_boundary-- --part3_897348965_boundary-- --part2_897348965_boundary-- --part1_897348965_boundary-- --part0_897348965_boundary-- from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Jun 8 19:05:07 1998 Subject: Re: Lathe help? Thanks to Bob, and all who have responded so far: Yes, I do have an MSC catalog. What I think I need are 3/8 shank toolbits.What I don't understand is the correct shape. Jack Howell's new bookrecommendsthat the point of the tool be extremely sharp, and the only pointed toolsI'veseen are 45 and 60 degree thread cutters like many use in making planingforms. Ican see that they need to be ground, but I don't know how to go about itconcerning rake angles, etc. I've messed up one already, and don't mindlearningthe hard way. But practicing on Cocobolo blanks for reel seats getsexpensivequick. And turning down a ferrule station with the flat bits I have seemsrisky.If going to sandpaper or other abrasives is the answer, why bother withthe extraexpense of a metal lathe over a wood lathe?Turning wood and bamboo in a metal lathe isn't covered in the SouthBend lathemanuals I've found or any other source, so I'm asking for you guys personalexperiences. Another lathe question. I have a chance to buy at auction a good usedSouthBend lathe with all the trimmings. How much should I be willing to pay? Again, thanks for all your help. The army manual is a great intro, buytheway! Harry RVenneri@aol.com wrote: Harry,I noticed that you are in need of some help choosing lathe tools. Ifpossible you should try to use tool holders with carbide inserts. Thiswaywhen the tool gets dull you just turn the insert or change the insert. Ifyouhave a msc catalog let me know I will try to give you page # or part # oftheinserts I use. Also if you would like email or send me a drawing of whatyouare making and I will try to help you as much as I can.Best Regards,Bob VVenneri's Custom Components21 chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882 from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Jun 8 19:32:13 1998 Subject: WTD:lathe work/Heddon replacement parts All: Anyone out there with a lathe and a source of black plastic rod stock -if so, I'd like to buy replacement butt caps for Heddon rods. I cansupply original parts for masters. I believe the originals are made froma linseed oil based plastic (crap) - ABS (maybe polystyrene or a filledpolypropylene) should work for the new parts. There's two closely related styles: #1 - The cap itself is just under 0.75" at the max dia. and has a~0.410" O.D. x 0.560" long "tube" that fits inside the reelseat spacer. #2 - Has a cap of about 0.810" with the same tube. The cap itself has aradius'ed "fancy" curve. Please email me off list. Thanks, Don BurnsFlyfisher@cmix.com from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Jun 8 19:38:03 1998 Subject: Re: Lathe help? Harry,I've been a gunsmith/rod builder for the past 30 years.I use aSouth Bend Tool Room Lathe (bench lathe ). It is a 9in. ( 9in swing ) with approx. 18in. between centers. I bought this lathe about five years ago from a manwhomakes competition bench rest rifles, for $3000.00 . It came with everything.Three chucks, boxes and boxes of cutters,turret tool post,turret tail stock andcomplete set of collets, etc. Just look the lathe over good for any major wear onthe ways, etc.Check headstock bearings for any loosness, and check the mainscrew that the tool post is driven by.Make sure the threads are good andsquare,not rounded. One last note, don't use a pointed cutter when turning in thelathe unless you are cutting threads.Your tool bit should be slightly rounded,razorsharp and a few thousands below center. Dave leClair from hhholland@erols.com Mon Jun 8 20:49:11 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrules - Calling all ferrules -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Ferrules - Calling all ferrules Darryl I have heard that Grahmne's brother has stopped making them(retired) and now the count is down to one! Not a good thought! Chris On Mon, 8 Jun 1998 17:47:58 EDT, SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 6/8/98 1:33:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time,jczimny@dol.netwrites: As far as I know. There are only three makers in existence.1. Baily Wood2. Grahm Maisey's brother.3. Rodon/Cortland --I don't know anyone selling these.That's it.John Zimny Thanks, that's all I could come up with also. Maybe this could stimulatesomeone to start making them.....Darryl Hayashida Wait a minute, Dave LeClair (Dave L) on this list makes great ferrules,check him out! Hank Holland from ragnarig@integrityol.com Mon Jun 8 20:56:47 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A815535010C; Mon, 08 Jun 1998 19:04:05 PDT Subject: Re: Lathe help? Dear Harry I'm not sure I understand whether you are primarily wanting to makewoodenfittings or metal. If you are talking about soft metals, like ns, bronze and brass, you want arounded (as seen from above) point on your tool (alright, keep it down outthere!) with the cutting surface parallel to the CL of the work. degreepoint is fine, with a little more rake. You want to use a pretty high speedand, unfortunately, most metal-working lathes do not offer this. As far as a reasonable price for the one at auction, well, what's it worthto you? Don't give more than junk price for it before you've run it throughits speeds, checked the entire run of the feed gear and generally given it aworkout commensurate with the type of tasks you will be asking it toperform. Considering that a good, new woodworking lathe is readily available for areasonable price (if you've got no moral objections to Chinese goods) youmight ask yourself if the metal-specific chores you've got for it willjustify the bother of a metal lathe. This may additionally take the form ofrewiring either the lathe or your garage. Something to think about :-) from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Mon Jun 8 21:04:20 1998 ix13.ix.netcom.com via smap(V1.3) Subject: Re: Dumb Donald Strikes Again! Nope, it was bocote wood. I had a small Xacto saw blade so I was able toremove the end and put on the slice ring. Won't say it looks great but itdoesn't look any worse. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 10:03 AM 6/8/98 -0400, you wrote:At 09:56 PM 6/7/98 EDT, Fallcreek9@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 98-06-07 01:06:47 EDT, you write: and hard when I realized...I left the slip ring off!!!Onis - One of the required rites of passage. Been there, done that :-)Regards,Richard Onis, Yes, I too have done this deed. If your seat has a metal butt cap it may befairly easy to remove. Try heat or at worst boiling water. Epoxy orferrulecement should come lose. Then you can slid the band on. and replace thecap. Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from selez@ibm.net Mon Jun 8 21:19:34 1998 out1.ibm.net(8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA31482 for ;Tue, 9 Jun 1998 02:19:29GMT Subject: Re: block plane identification Michael Mèller wrote: that's the pointMichael SealRite@aol.com wrote: Don't get overly detailed with descriptions & specs. A tool is just atool.It is the hands of the maker that make the difference. I use an oldmodel 65stanley that I inherited from my grandfather and it works perfectly. Keep itsharp. Craig Thanks for the generous input to all on the block plane. I was ableto successfully identify this plane as a 9 1/2, but could nothave done this without your help (all who replied). There certainlyis a huge amount of sentiment in using my grandfather's tools, andmaking them "live" again through another generation. I'm also found another 9 1/2, but not as good of condition. In playing withthe several planes I've found with scrap pieces of wood, each has theirown characteristic(even between the two 9 1/2s) and personality. I appreciate all theinsight shared. Sincerely,Bill Seleznoff from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Jun 8 21:59:39 1998 Subject: A couple of things I have fallen off the list for the last week apparently - I just thoughtfolks went fishing - but to update on a couple of issues 1) from other e-mail apparently the date TPF list for the upcomingGrayrockare incorrect - the Official dates are June 26 & June 27 (The Maker's Rod98will be raffled that night) 2) I recieved a phone call tonight from Harold Demarest - it seems thatyesterday Eileen fell while doing yard work - their yard is mostly rock upthat way - in the fall she broke her upper arm - not severly but she isgoingto be laid up for a bit. For anyone wishing to pass along get wells - theaddress is Eileen Demarest - P O Box 238 - Bloomingdale,NJ 07404 - 3) Orders for Grayrock - I have several requests for ferrules and Irecieved aBIG box today from Al Bellinger. The ferrule order will need to be called into Bailey by tuesday (June 23) inorder to get the ferrules to Grayrock intime- for the list members that won't be able to make Grayrock - I will takeorders and ship to those wanting to get a 40% discount - e-mail fordetails It has turned cool for the past week - which may slow down the hatchofthe HEX - keep the fingers crossed and it might be at it's prime the 20th -27th. Wayne from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Jun 9 01:10:24 1998 Tue, 9 Jun 1998 14:10:09 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Lathe help? On Mon, 8 Jun 1998, Harry Boyd wrote: Friends,I'm trying to learn to use a small metal working lathe, andhave checked out the books from the library. I even looked into aclass at the local vo-tech, to no avail. No one teaches basicmetalworking around here these days. Even if they did, most of theclass would not be applicable. A simple question arises, I hope.What do you use in the way of lathe toolbits when cutting ferrule/*********snip****/Harry,there are a couple of web sites to check out, but take a look at the Sherline site off my home page. One thing you may have grief with initialy is you need to ensure the top of the cutter is in line with the centre of the work, so if you keep that in mind when grinding that might help, ie. grind the cutter so the only bearing surface on the work is the cuttingedge.Use shims to adjust the cutter height and angle of attack if nesessary. from there just try the lathe out and you'll get the hang of it prettyquickly. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Jun 9 01:19:38 1998 Tue, 9 Jun 1998 14:19:32 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: glue for ferrules Good point---Come to think of it, the combination of aging, cold, and repeated targetimpact for field tips would all probably play a part. I probably haveone in 10-12 arrows every year that the tips simply fall off afterrepeated target impacts, so maybe it's not as good as I think. Greg The glue of which you speak is good, but keep in mind that field points can be tricky to remove after a lot of use even when a thiner glue is used such as the "crazy glue" types because of the compression of the POC inside the head, sort of like the peening of a rivet in a rove. I used to find field points epoxyied onto a loose fitting arrow would come loose for more of less the same reason AJ uses pins with his ferrules.I used to break and loose arrows so fast I s'pose I didn't realy care in the end what I used, none of them made it to old age. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Jun 9 01:21:22 1998 Tue, 9 Jun 1998 14:21:16 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Ferrules - Calling all ferrules On Mon, 8 Jun 1998 SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 6/8/98 1:33:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time,jczimny@dol.netwrites: As far as I know. There are only three makers in existence.1. Baily Wood2. Grahm Maisey's brother.3. Rodon/Cortland --I don't know anyone selling these.That's it.John Zimny Thanks, that's all I could come up with also. Maybe this could stimulatesomeone to start making them.....Darryl Hayashida Dosn't Dave LeClare make ferrules? I make them from rod. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from steveobg@nacs.net Tue Jun 9 05:42:27 1998 Subject: Re: Lathe help? http://www.atsc-army.org/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/tc/9-524/toc.htm that is cGi not cQi... Michael Mèller wrote: Coffey, Patrick W wrote: http://www.atsc-army.org/cqi-bin/atdl.dll/tc/9-524/toc.htm please check url! My browser told me: Object Not Found =;-(Mick ----------From: Harry Boyd[SMTP:fbcwin@fsbnet.com] Sent: Monday, June 08, 1998 9:22 AM Subject: Lathe help? Friends,I'm trying to learn to use a small metal working lathe,andhave checked out the books from the library. I even looked into a class at the local vo-tech, to no avail. No one teaches basicmetalworking around here these days. Even if they did, most of the class would not be applicable. A simple question arises, I hope.What do you use in the way of lathe toolbits when cutting ferrulestations, turning reelseat fillers and so on? My best educatedguessis that you use either a style "E" or "ER - EL" bit speciallyground,but I have no idea how to accurately do this grinding and maintainanydegree of sharpness to the edge. I know I can order thesetoolbits from Enco or MSC, and any guidance will be greatly appreciated.Thanks in advance, Harry from LambersonW@missouri.edu Tue Jun 9 07:43:20 1998 (5.5.1960.3) Subject: scarf joints What type of glue is preferred for the scarf joints in nodelessconstruction? Is compatibility with the glue used for final gluing ofstrips the primary issue? Bill Lamberson from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Tue Jun 9 08:32:50 1998 (may be forged)) Subject: Re: Lathe help? Harry, The used South Bend Lathe, 9" swing - 4 1/2' bed, that I bought lastFall came with a four jaw chuck, several face plates, a millingattachment, and a heavy coat of grease and grime. I'm still in theprocess of cleaning it up. I will have to order several parts to feelconfident with it. I paid $500 for it. A local Used Equipment Dealerthat I know, said that he had two such lathes available for $1200 to$1500. I have not seen this equipment so I don't know what shape it isin. I hope that this helps with your decision. Dick Fuhrman from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Tue Jun 9 08:33:24 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Lathe help? I bought a bench lathe (South Bend) only it was 30" between centers withall the equipment mentioned below from a machine shop for $250.00. Thatgives you a pretty good price range to go by, start low and settle somewhere in between. A lot of machine shops have old South Bends lyingaround unused in back room and on shelves because they've all gone to NCtools and don't have use for small lathes anymore. ----------From: LECLAIR123@aol.com[SMTP:LECLAIR123@aol.com] Sent: Monday, June 08, 1998 5:37 PM Subject: Re: Lathe help? Harry,I've been a gunsmith/rod builder for the past 30 years.Iuse aSouth Bend Tool Room Lathe (bench lathe ). It is a 9in. ( 9in swing ) withapprox. 18in. between centers. I bought this lathe about five years ago from aman whomakes competition bench rest rifles, for $3000.00 . It came witheverything.Three chucks, boxes and boxes of cutters,turret tool post,turret tailstock andcomplete set of collets, etc. Just look the lathe over good for any majorwear onthe ways, etc.Check headstock bearings for any loosness, and check the mainscrew that the tool post is driven by.Make sure the threads are good andsquare,not rounded. One last note, don't use a pointed cutter when turning inthelathe unless you are cutting threads.Your tool bit should be slightlyrounded,razorsharp and a few thousands below center. Dave leClair from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Tue Jun 9 08:54:31 1998 (may be forged)) Subject: Youth Flyfishing Team Listers, Take a look at www.youthflyfishing.com. This is an incomplete web siteat this time but worth a look. This group wishes to compete in Wales,U.K. in early August. They currently are short of their goal by about$8000. The team consists of 6 youth and 4 adult chaperones/coaches. Our local Fly Fishing Club has made a generous contribution to the groupas well as several local individuals. The Arkansas Game and FishCommission has secured a Ranger Bass Boat for the group to solicitdonations with. This boat will be raffled off later this summer. Allof this information will be available through the web site when it iscomplete (Hopefully later this week.). Also, some of you might havefuture members of this team in your households. As we all know, small donations add up. I'm sure any donation would beappreciated by this group. I have no interest in this group with the exception that I voted for ourclub to support them. Dick Fuhrman from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Jun 9 09:23:27 1998 Tue, 9 Jun 1998 22:23:08 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: scarf joints On Tue, 9 Jun 1998, Lamberson, William R. wrote: What type of glue is preferred for the scarf joints in nodelessconstruction? Is compatibility with the glue used for final gluing ofstrips the primary issue? Bill Lamberson I like to use the same glue for the scarfs as the splines, else you'll have all kinds of problems with heat when it comes to straightening. hang together during the planing process better than any other glue I've used so far (I haven't as yet used Titebond II recomended by a few on the list) as well as giving a very long pot life allowing you to do a good job of straightening the blank before it cures.The other glue I like is resorcinol, again it works for the scarfs and splines.UF has been a problem for me for the scarfs during the planing process. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Tue Jun 9 09:46:01 1998 post (8.8.7/8.6.11) withSMTP id PAA17468 for ; Tue, 9 Jun 199815:46:48 +0100 Subject: Oxidising (again - sorry) I'm using Birchwood Casey Brass Black to oxidise brass and nickel silverferrules. This is good stuff, but I just can't get that handsome blue/blackcolour, that suits bamboo so well. I've tried photographic chemicals, Tourmaline Black, and other Britishproprietary products, but they're less effective than the Birchwood Casey. Any thoughts guys? What about Payne formula? This can't be exported from the States (I guessbecause it's acid-based) but I suppose I could have it made up, if someonewill give me the formula. Perhaps it's a closely guarded secret. It's a long time since I've had any interest in acid (man). John Cooper (England) from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Jun 9 10:25:05 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrules - Calling all ferrules In a message dated 6/8/98 11:25:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time,tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au writes: Dosn't Dave LeClare make ferrules? I make them from rod. Get in touch with Mark Metcalf - bam-fly@pacbell.netDarryl Hayashida from GDAVIS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU Tue Jun 9 11:37:46 1998 #20257) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue,9 Jun 1998 11:32:41 CST Subject: making ferrules??? Like some other listers, I am also struggling to make my own ferrules. I got some good advice and (extruded?) tubing from Dave Leclair. "How to Run a Lathe" by South Bend Lathe, Inc. has also been a good resource. Here are some of my current obstacles. The book says the cutter should be 5 degrees ABOVE the center (for materials other than brass) but Dave says just a little BELOW. I'll try it, but could you say again, Dave, that "ABOVE" is not a typo? Tapering the end that will eventually get the serrations has also been difficult. I tried making a series of steps to smooth over later, but the last step went too deep, shearing the tube and mashing the wall. Is there a more certain method that I'm missing here? When I turn the ferrule around in the headstock to make the tapered end, my chuck makes dimples in the ferrule. Am I over-tightening, or should I try protecting the barrel with tape? Soldering the seals into the tubing is also uncertain in my hands. I'm degreasing (I use STP as a turning lube) with 95% alcohol and heating with a propane torch. I have low-temp "silver" solder and paste flux. About 75% of the time, the solder won't flow and my pieces turn very dark. Thanks in advance for any advice! - Grayson from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Tue Jun 9 12:05:56 1998 Subject: Re: Lathe help? Heartfelt thanks to all who have replied, on and off-list. After I'vemessed up a few more reel seat fillers and ferrule stations, I'll let youknow! I'm always amazed at the willingness to share information. That'swhat makes this fun, isn't it!Harry Coffey, Patrick W wrote: http://www.atsc-army.org/cqi-bin/atdl.dll/tc/9-524/toc.htm ----------From: Harry Boyd[SMTP:fbcwin@fsbnet.com] Sent: Monday, June 08, 1998 9:22 AM Subject: Lathe help? Friends,I'm trying to learn to use a small metal working lathe, andhave checked out the books from the library. I even looked into aclass at the local vo-tech, to no avail. No one teaches basicmetalworking around here these days. Even if they did, most of theclass would not be applicable. A simple question arises, I hope.What do you use in the way of lathe toolbits when cutting ferrulestations, turning reelseat fillers and so on? My best educated guessis that you use either a style "E" or "ER - EL" bit specially ground,but I have no idea how to accurately do this grinding and maintain anydegree of sharpness to the edge. I know I can order these toolbits from Enco or MSC, and any guidance will be greatly appreciated.Thanks in advance, Harry from ray_mccaleb@oit.peachnet.edu Tue Jun 9 12:05:56 1998 NAA05849 Subject: RE: Oxidising (again - sorry) Hi, John, and all,I'm new to the list but might be able to help on this subject. I dowoodworking and recently built a toolbox to display some antiquewoodworkingtools. It looked good, but the brass hardware stuck out like a sore thumb. I used a product, Blacken-It from a company called A-West. If you have amodel train hobby shop near by they either have it or can get it from theirsupplier (Walthers). It is a chemical darkenerthat works on brass, nickelsilver, and several other metals. The results I received were superb. Besure to experiment on a scrap piece first. Hope this helps, Ray -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 1998 10:44 AM Subject: Oxidising (again - sorry) I'm using Birchwood Casey Brass Black to oxidise brass and nickel silverferrules. This is good stuff, but I just can't get that handsomeblue/blackcolour, that suits bamboo so well. I've tried photographic chemicals, Tourmaline Black, and other Britishproprietary products, but they're less effective than the BirchwoodCasey. Any thoughts guys? What about Payne formula? This can't be exported from the States (Iguessbecause it's acid-based) but I suppose I could have it made up, ifsomeonewill give me the formula. Perhaps it's a closely guarded secret. It's a long time since I've had any interest in acid (man). John Cooper (England) from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Jun 9 12:22:31 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA208072945; Tue, 9 Jun 1998 10:22:25 -0700 Subject: Payne Formula John, You asked about the Payne Formula. I've used a few different products now and have found the Payne formula to be the best I've tried. The color comes off as a very deep blue/black with merely one or two applications. I really like the stuff although I'm sure it's not nice to you if you inhale it or mistake it for cough syrup. I suspect it would definitely supress the cough, but might also supress a few other more vital functions. I don't know if the formula is a secret. Dave LeClair posted two of the ingredients a while back which consisted of arsenic and hydrochloric acid if I'm not mistaken. You might inquire to him as to whether the formula is guarded or not. It is easy to use and directions come with it. A thinned coat of laquer or other protectant brings out an even darker lustre in the finish color. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Jun 9 18:03:38 1998 head.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA02775; Tue, 9 Jun1998 19:03:21 -0400 Subject: Re: scarf joints BillIt is a question you cannot ignore - yes the glues you use forthe splices should be compatible with the one for gluing of strips.The only reason to use two different glues is that for splices you want a quick grab and set up glue for splices, and a slower one Now having said that - there is nothing stopping you fromusing the same glue for both. Garrison used Urac for both - but thenagain his rod only turned out to be 4' 7" long. It all depends on howmuch time and clamps you have to make a rod. I have found a systemthat seems to work for me. You need to experiment and find one that works you. Chris On Tue, 9 Jun 1998 07:43:16 -0500, Lamberson, William R. wrote: What type of glue is preferred for the scarf joints in nodelessconstruction? Is compatibility with the glue used for final gluing ofstrips the primary issue? Bill Lamberson from fiveside@net-gate.com Tue Jun 9 18:18:08 1998 (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA27730 for ;Tue, 9 Jun 1998 19:16:52 Subject: Fly Fishing Contests To Dick Furman and our List,Of all the thing this world does not need, fly fishing competition headsthe list. The bass boat sounds right but the rest is screwy. I hope yourmessage was misplaced on this list. I'll bite my tongue and say no more. Bill from rcurry@top.monad.net Tue Jun 9 18:59:49 1998 Subject: Re: Fly Fishing Contests Bill Fink wrote: To Dick Furman and our List,Of all the thing this world does not need, fly fishing competition headsthe list. The bass boat sounds right but the rest is screwy. I hope yourmessage was misplaced on this list. I'll bite my tongue and say no more. BillBill,I had the same problem. I found my tongue was swollen after biting.Doyou have any recommendations for this? Will heat treating help, and forhow long?Best regards,Reed from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Jun 9 19:39:47 1998 head.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id UAA20514; Tue, 9 Jun1998 20:39:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Fly Fishing Contests BillLet the sporting flies rule at Grayling! This is the real competition! As for these other pysdo sports . . . (the blood is flowing). Chris To Dick Furman and our List,Of all the thing this world does not need, fly fishing competition headsthe list. The bass boat sounds right but the rest is screwy. I hope yourmessage was misplaced on this list. I'll bite my tongue and say no more. Bill from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Jun 9 19:42:30 1998 Wed, 10 Jun 1998 08:42:22 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: making ferrules??? The book says the cutter should be 5 degrees ABOVE the center (for materials other than brass) but Dave says just a little BELOW. I'll try it, but could you say again, Dave, that "ABOVE" is not a typo? It sould be level or just below as Dave says. Tapering the end that will eventually get the serrations has also been difficult. I tried making a series of steps to smooth over later, but the last step went too deep, shearing the tube and mashing the wall. Is there a more certain method that I'm missing here?Depending on the lathe you have, turn between centres and either swingthe headstock or tailstock and cut as per normal. When I turn the ferrule around in the headstock to make the tapered end, my chuck makes dimples in the ferrule. Am I over-tightening, or should I try protecting the barrel with tape?Don't use tape, it'll run off centre. Insert a drill bit or piece of steel turned to fit and chuck in place. Soldering the seals into the tubing is also uncertain in my hands. I'm degreasing (I use STP as a turning lube) with 95% alcohol and heating with a propane torch. I have low-temp "silver" solder and paste flux. About 75% of the time, the solder won't flow and my pieces turn very dark. Sorry, no experience here. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from LECLAIR123@aol.com Tue Jun 9 20:04:47 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrules - Calling all ferrules Guys, I do make ferrules, but not in the quanity that Baily or cortlanddo.So,I don't know if you should put me in the same class as them.I make them for my own rods and sell a few sets to other makers.Someday if I ever win theloto, so I can afford to buy a CNC lathe or a turning center, then I might be ableto keep up with them.Dave L. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Tue Jun 9 20:44:12 1998 Subject: Re: making ferrules??? Grayson,The Nickel Silver tubing is Drawn not Extruded. I find the bestplace to place my cutter is right on center or just a few thousands below. Ineverhave my cutter above center. The cutter should be slightly rouned and keep irrazor sharp. It sounds like you are tightning your chuck too tight on theferrule,I use collets,but if you don't have them, the chuck is ok.Wrap the ferrule withmasking tape,but make sure that the tape does not over lap on itself.As this willcause the ferrule to run off center in your chuck.And you don't need to tighten thechuck so tight. The best way for you to turn the end down for the serrations,is to use a file and do it by hand.I use a cutter that I made myself,It cuts thewhole section at one time at an angle. After I get it down almost to were I wantit,thenI use a file to finish it.Then I cut the serrations with a jewlers sawblade,mounted in my lathe chuck.With the ferrule mounted in a fixture, mounted on the toolpost. As far as the soldering,I use a solder from Brownells calledHigh-Force. It is a very strong (soft solder ) It is used for soldering shotgunbarrels together. I use a std. type flux ( paste ) in the can that plumers use.I've neverhad any problem with the solder not flowing. Remember,you don't want to overheat the metal.Too much heat will cause the solder to not flow properly.Alsoremember to not heat directly on the spot you want to solder,keep your heat backjust alittle,to get the solder to ( Draw In ) to the joint..Keep the heat onthe side of the joint that you want the solder to flow into. I hope this helps, Dave L. from FLYROD777@aol.com Tue Jun 9 22:15:38 1998 Subject: Re: Lathe help? Harry You may want ot check the local shops. Some of those guys may do it atnightwith you. If you live near a military base ask around. There is usually oneof them that is more than willing to help. I'm at Great Lakes IL NavalStation and there is more than you can shake a stick at. Allot of therodbuilders on the net are are pretty good also. One last place I can thinkof is the local High School. They usually have a metal shop. Mark Hallowell from deuchman@hereintown.net Tue Jun 9 22:21:30 1998 0400 Subject: Lathes again...... In considering the purchase of a lathe myself, I have run across a few "all in one" machines (namely Smithy and Shoptask) and was wondering ifanyone else has any experience/comments about these lathe/mill/drill machines. Rich Keller230 National HighwayLaVale, MD. 21502deuchman@hereintown.net WINMAIL.DAT Name: WINMAIL.DATType: unspecified type (application/octet- stream)Encoding: x-uuencode from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Tue Jun 9 23:57:14 1998 mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net(InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with ESMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Oxidising (again - sorry) It probably can't be exported because it contains cyanide...BE CAREFUL! George Bourke ----------From: J.Cooper Subject: Oxidising (again - sorry)Date: Tuesday, June 09, 1998 7:44 AM I'm using Birchwood Casey Brass Black to oxidise brass and nickel silverferrules. This is good stuff, but I just can't get that handsomeblue/blackcolour, that suits bamboo so well. I've tried photographic chemicals, Tourmaline Black, and other Britishproprietary products, but they're less effective than the BirchwoodCasey. Any thoughts guys? What about Payne formula? This can't be exported from the States (Iguessbecause it's acid-based) but I suppose I could have it made up, ifsomeonewill give me the formula. Perhaps it's a closely guarded secret. It's a long time since I've had any interest in acid (man). John Cooper (England) from CALucker@aol.com Wed Jun 10 01:14:29 1998 Subject: Re: making ferrules??? In a message dated 98-06-09 21:50:32 EDT, you write: As an alternative to a jewelers saw, I would recommend using a fineslittingsaw blade mounted on an arbor in your lathe chuck. If you don't have amilling machine attachment for your lathe, mount your ferrule in a holdermounted on your lathe cross slide. Simply run the ferrule into the slittingsaw and you get nice straight slices. The slitting saws and the arbors arefound in the same catalogues where you find lathe tools and millingcutters. Before you get any wise ideas, the saws don't work for makingLeonard'Hawes/Thomas/Payne/Edwards/Carlson -type bevelers.Chris Lucker from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Jun 10 10:24:28 1998 Subject: Re: making ferrules??? Clean the pieces with acetone. (sand away any corrosion too) Use theflux on the pieces before assembly, and use a pencil point heat tip -not a broad flame. Solder should not be heated with the flame - use theflame to heat the metal, so that when the solder is touched to the metalthe hot metal melts the solder. Use the flame to draw the solder intothe joint - heat from the front and apply solder from the back on awelt. You should see the solder flow towards the flame. Same method is used for plumbing, so practice this on some 1/2" copperwater pipe and fittings until you've got the method worked out. Youshould be able to see the heat of the metal "suck" the solder into thegap. BUT everything must be VERY clean and free of corrosion plus wellfluxed - forget about trying to add flux as you heat. This is time for aquick touch of solder and it should flow into the joint quickly - notbead up. Remove the flame when applying the solder, if you see beadsform. You can buy paste silver solder too - use this on the waterproofing plugso that you don't need to stick a piece of solder into the ferrule. Justheat and the paste should melt and flow. If the NS is turning very dark - you're overheating the metal or takingtoo long. Most likely, not enough flux or dirty surfaces and/or poorsoldering method. Some darkening is to be expected from heating - just polish away withmetal polish. If you can't get good hot heat from your propane torch - buy a cylinderof MAP gas for a boost, just don't melt the NS. Or check out yourlocal Radio Shack - they have a low-cost jeweler's torch that uses smallscrew-in (CO2) size bottles of gas (MAP?) - it works, I have used mineto re-mount loose welts and fill plier marks with silver solder. When finished, you'll need to remove the all the excess flux from theferrule before gluing it to the rod, but for soldering - remember fluxis your friend. Don Burns from tom@cet-inc.com Wed Jun 10 10:25:15 1998 0000 Subject: Another Lathe Query John Zimny, Dave LeClair and other lathe gurus I use a South Bend 9" Tool Room Lathe. I bought a set of Erickson doubleangle collets to better hold ferrule stock and completed ferrules forlapping. (Had been using a Jacobs headstock spindle chuck). In my pursuitofa collet chuck, I had been looking for a chuck that was tapered to fit intothe headstock (MT 2 according to my South Bend book). The MT2 colletchuckavailable from MSC will fit my tailstock but is too small for theheadstock.Am I looking for something that doesn't exist? If I don't want to spring($$) for a drawbar setup, should I be using a straight shank collet chuck inmy Jacobs chuck? My old lathe books don't really talk about non drawbar setups. Any help isappreciated. Tom Whittle---------- from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed Jun 10 11:39:26 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.1);Wed, 10Jun 1998 12:41:50 -0400 Subject: Re: scarf joints Since I have only been doing this for a limited time I will share my opinion quickly. I use TBII for all splices. It sets up nice and dries quickly enough to take the clamps off in 30 min. For final gluing I am using the Epon. Great stuff. However, for splices it would drive me insane. I would never question the strength but it takes forever to dry and splicing up a rod with this stuff would turn splices into a part of production which would take way to long. If I was repairing a tip section with a straight splice I would use the Epon. I believe it is the strongest stuff out there (uh oh...) Take care, Jon Lintvet8602 Wild Olive StreetPotomac, MD 20854(800) 836-7558(301) 340-0194 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed Jun 10 11:39:26 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.1);Wed, 10Jun 1998 12:41:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Reel Seat question I have used masking tape for years on gaphite rods (can't imagine how water would get in there). I like the electrical tape idea though and will surely try it. Now lets go the other direction....reel seat is glued together and the id is smaller than the od of the cane. I cannot imagine anything would be hurt if you chuck the rod in a lathe and round it off. The stress at the butt must be near nill and hearing some people left only an inch for reel seat support makes me feel more comfortable. Jon Lintvet8602 Wild Olive StreetPotomac, MD 20854(800) 836-7558(301) 340-0194 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from dpeaston@wzrd.com Wed Jun 10 14:33:35 1998 mail.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) Subject: Re: Reel Seat question At 12:36 PM 6/10/98 +0000, Jon Lintvet wrote:I have used masking tape for years on gaphite rods (can't imagine how water would get in there). I like the electrical tape idea though and will surely try it. Now lets go the other direction....reel seat is glued together and the id is smaller than the od of the cane. I cannot imagine anything would be hurt if you chuck the rod in a lathe and round it off. The stress at the butt must be near nill and hearing some people left only an inch for reel seat support makes me feel more comfortable. Jon Lintvet8602 Wild Olive StreetPotomac, MD 20854(800) 836-7558(301) 340-0194 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ Jon, Been there done that. Reduction of butt da by about 1/8" seems fine. BTW Ireduced the butt enough to allow for one layer of masking tape. Perhaps byreflex. I seem to remember putting grips on golf shafts using double sticktape. Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from bryanlee@iafrica.com Wed Jun 10 14:35:09 1998 Subject: Please remove me Hi there Please remove my name from the mail list. My son has lost interest in the building of fly rods. My thanks for your information supplied. Bryan Howell from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Jun 10 15:45:48 1998 0500 Subject: Re: Reel Seat question Jon, Doug,Why not just use a rat-tail file to increase the diameter of the hole inthe filler? Your bamboo is probably lighter than the filler material. I justchuck my file (wrapped with tape to prevent jaw damage) in the lathe, andgetafter it. Works like a charm, and I can get a friction fit if I'm at allcareful.Harry P.S. Jon, Mialed the check several days ago to your NY address, hope that'sOK. Look fwd to package in return. Douglas P. Easton wrote: At 12:36 PM 6/10/98 +0000, Jon Lintvet wrote:I have used masking tape for years on gaphite rods (can't imagine howwater would get in there). I like the electrical tape idea thoughand will surely try it. Now lets go the other direction....reel seat is glued together andthe id is smaller than the od of the cane. I cannot imagine anythingwould be hurt if you chuck the rod in a lathe and round it off. Thestress at the butt must be near nill and hearing some people leftonly an inch for reel seat support makes me feel more comfortable. Jon Lintvet8602 Wild Olive StreetPotomac, MD 20854(800) 836-7558(301) 340-0194http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ Jon, Been there done that. Reduction of butt da by about 1/8" seems fine. BTWIreduced the butt enough to allow for one layer of masking tape. Perhapsbyreflex. I seem to remember putting grips on golf shafts using doublesticktape. Doug EastonTonawanda, NY