from jczimny@dol.net Wed Jun 10 16:09:21 1998 Subject: Re: Another Lathe Query Tom,You can buy a collet closer for your lathe. Southbend still sells them andtheyare also available from Blue Ridge Machinery. If you go that route, you'llhaveto use 3C collets. The most inexpensive 3C collets that I've seen are atMSC andare $42 per collet. The alternative is to buy a Bison Collet chuck andmount itto a machined back-plate. You'll have to machine the back plate yourself -avery precise but not at all impossible task. After the collet chuck ismounted,You'll be able to use 5C collets that start a about $7 per and you'll alsohavea greater range of sizes.John Zimny m wrote: John Zimny, Dave LeClair and other lathe gurus I use a South Bend 9" Tool Room Lathe. I bought a set of Erickson doubleangle collets to better hold ferrule stock and completed ferrules forlapping. (Had been using a Jacobs headstock spindle chuck). In my pursuitofa collet chuck, I had been looking for a chuck that was tapered to fit intothe headstock (MT 2 according to my South Bend book). The MT2 colletchuckavailable from MSC will fit my tailstock but is too small for theheadstock.Am I looking for something that doesn't exist? If I don't want to spring($$) for a drawbar setup, should I be using a straight shank collet chuckinmy Jacobs chuck? My old lathe books don't really talk about non drawbar setups. Any help isappreciated. Tom Whittle---------- from jczimny@dol.net Wed Jun 10 16:48:59 1998 Subject: Re: Another Lathe Query Another thought Tom. Are you telling me that the chuck from MSC will onlyfit a 2MTtaper? If so, you can buy an adaptor sleeve that will convert a 3MT to a2MT.John Zimny J. C. Zimny wrote: Tom,You can buy a collet closer for your lathe. Southbend still sells them andtheyare also available from Blue Ridge Machinery. If you go that route, you'llhaveto use 3C collets. The most inexpensive 3C collets that I've seen are atMSC andare $42 per collet. The alternative is to buy a Bison Collet chuck andmount itto a machined back-plate. You'll have to machine the back plate yourself- avery precise but not at all impossible task. After the collet chuck ismounted,You'll be able to use 5C collets that start a about $7 per and you'll alsohavea greater range of sizes.John Zimny m wrote: John Zimny, Dave LeClair and other lathe gurus I use a South Bend 9" Tool Room Lathe. I bought a set of Erickson doubleangle collets to better hold ferrule stock and completed ferrules forlapping. (Had been using a Jacobs headstock spindle chuck). In mypursuit ofa collet chuck, I had been looking for a chuck that was tapered to fitintothe headstock (MT 2 according to my South Bend book). The MT2 colletchuckavailable from MSC will fit my tailstock but is too small for theheadstock.Am I looking for something that doesn't exist? If I don't want to spring($$) for a drawbar setup, should I be using a straight shank collet chuckinmy Jacobs chuck? My old lathe books don't really talk about non drawbar setups. Any helpisappreciated. Tom Whittle---------- from richjez@enteract.com Wed Jun 10 17:20:19 1998 0000 (147.126.253.18) Subject: Travel time Does anyone know how long it takes to get to the Mac bridge fromGrayling?Thinknig of going home that way.Rich Jezioro*________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ /||/______/_||_________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > from cpence@mwci.net Wed Jun 10 18:24:24 1998 1998 18:24:28 -0500 Subject: Source for b/o jasper (variagated) silk? Hi,I'm a newcommer to the list and a lover of cane rods. Not a builder, though. Hope it's OK to listen in (won't have much of anything to contribute). I would like to ask whether anyone has a source for black/orange jasper for use in restoring a SB290. That done, I'll retire to the back of the room and enjoy the conversation. Thanks in advance --Craig Pence from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Jun 10 18:39:00 1998 Subject: Re: Another Lathe Query Tom,I have a draw bar set up and collets for my south bend,but I usethe double angle collets and seperate collet holder in my chuck. I find it isalot easier and faster. If you keep your eyes open and watch the news paperfor tool auctions, you might find a draw bar set up and collets.I've seensomeat some of the auctions I've been to. Dave LeClair from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Jun 10 18:50:08 1998 Subject: Re: Reel Seat question Jon,All my rods have very large swelled butts. There are noreelseats,including mine thet will fit over the butt of the rod. I turn by butts down in mylathe to fitt the reel seat ID. Never had a problem and I know I never will as thereisn't that much strain on that area of the rod. Dave LeClair from CALucker@aol.com Wed Jun 10 19:09:24 1998 Subject: Re: Source for b/o jasper (variagated) silk? Buy the black/white and dye it. from thramer@presys.com Wed Jun 10 20:19:59 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Source for b/o jasper (variagated) silk? Craig Pence wrote: Hi,I'm a newcommer to the list and a lover of cane rods. Not a builder,though. Hope it's OK to listen in (won't have much of anything tocontribute). I would like to ask whether anyone has a source forblack/orange jasper for use in restoring a SB290. That done, I'll retire tothe back of the room and enjoy the conversation. Thanks in advance --CraigPence Send me your snail address and I will send 50 yds. I posted a similiarplea for some black/red recently and was rewarded by a very kindindividual with some so it is my duty to pass on the 'silk thread' toanother listmember.A.J.Thramer from selez@ibm.net Wed Jun 10 21:48:16 1998 (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA48080 for ;Thu, 11 Jun 1998 02:48:13GMT Subject: Re: Ferrules - Calling all ferrules Chris Bogart wrote: Darryl I have heard that Grahmne's brother has stopped making them(retired) and now the count is down to one! Not a good thought! Chris On Mon, 8 Jun 1998 17:47:58 EDT, SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 6/8/98 1:33:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time,jczimny@dol.netwrites: As far as I know. There are only three makers in existence.1. Baily Wood2. Grahm Maisey's brother.3. Rodon/Cortland --I don't know anyone selling these.That's it.John Zimny Thanks, that's all I could come up with also. Maybe this could stimulatesomeone to start making them.....Darryl Hayashida The last time I was in Bob Marriott's Fly shop (1 week ago), they stillcarried the Rodon/Cortland ferrules. They certainly aren'ton the best seller list there, but are availible nonetheless, andthey do ship anywhere.Bill from jfoster@gte.net Wed Jun 10 23:57:16 1998 Subject: Re: List mac-creator="4D4F5353" Finally got my machine back on line.. the apr and may archives areposted,,,in three parts..some of use are getting timeouts due to thelong download times. regards jerry from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Jun 11 00:14:16 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrules - Calling all ferrules In a message dated 6/10/98 7:54:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time,selez@ibm.netwrites: The last time I was in Bob Marriott's Fly shop (1 week ago), they stillcarried the Rodon/Cortland ferrules. They certainly aren'ton the best seller list there, but are availible nonetheless, andthey do ship anywhere. Maybe we will meet some day, I'm in there just about every other day.I'm on a first name basis with just about all the sales clerks. Yes, they do have the Cortland ferrules, but the males on them areso oversized you have to work for hours to fit them. I don't like themat all. Darryl Hayashida from hokkaido_flyfisher@yahoo.com Thu Jun 11 00:57:02 1998 Subject: Bellinger Beveler Fellow rodmakers, I am an apprentice rodmakers in Japan,and looking for anyone with opinions regarding the Bellinger beveler. My rodmakingteacher is thinking of buying one ... from their video, it looks rather straightforward to use ... Any comments would be much appreciated. Cheers, Christian==Mr. Christian THALACKER Otaru University of CommerceMatsugae 2-6-30 Otaru International Center #253047-0022 Hokkaido JAPAN Midori 3-5-21 Otaru047 Hokkaido JAPAN http://members.tripod.com/~Nijimasu/O.htmlNothing is impossible until it is sent to a committee._________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from tom@cet-inc.com Thu Jun 11 05:20:31 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Another Lathe Query John,No, MSC has 2MT and 3MT tapers. But I believe my SB headstock taper is a2MTtaper, its just larger in diameter than the 2MT taper chucks that MSC has Maybethat will work. If not, I guess I'll use the straight chuck in my Jacobs asmentioned by Dave.Thanks for your help guys.Tom----------From: "J. C. Zimny" Subject: Re: Another Lathe QueryDate: Wed, Jun 10, 1998, 4:41 PM Another thought Tom. Are you telling me that the chuck from MSC willonly fit a 2MTtaper? If so, you can buy an adaptor sleeve that will convert a 3MT to a2MT.John Zimny J. C. Zimny wrote: from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Jun 11 08:03:56 1998 Subject: Re:RE: Ferrules - Calling all ferrules RO>In a message dated 6/10/98 7:54:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time,selez@ibm.netRO>writes: RO>> The last time I was in Bob Marriott's Fly shop (1 week ago), they stillRO>> carried the Rodon/Cortland ferrules. They certainly aren'tRO>> on the best seller list there, but are availible nonetheless, andRO>> they do ship anywhere.RO>> RO>Maybe we will meet some day, I'm in there just about every other day.RO>I'm on a first name basis with just about all the sales clerks. RO>Yes, they do have the Cortland ferrules, but the males on them areRO>so oversized you have to work for hours to fit them. I don't like themRO>at all. RO>Darryl Hayashida Does anyone know who's the manufacturer of the Ni-plated brass ferrulesthat are on the market? Angler's Workshop wouldn't reveal thatinformation when I called them. (big suprise) Don Burns from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Jun 11 10:41:15 1998 Subject: Re: Bellinger Beveler In a message dated 6/10/98 10:58:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time,hokkaido_flyfisher@yahoo.com writes: I am an apprentice rodmakers in Japan,and looking for anyone with opinions regarding the Bellinger beveler. My rodmakingteacher is thinking of buying one ... from their video, it looks rather straightforward to use ... Any comments would be much appreciated. Cheers, Christian If he isn't in a hurry to buy one, one of the thingsI'm talking to the guys at Bamboo Flyrod Magazineabout is testing the various beveling machines outthere. They are going to do it, but the article mightnot get published until next year. The actual testing,which I'm supposed to be a part of, will probablystart this summer. I can keep you informed as it goesalong if they let me (they might want to keep the resultsto themselves until the article comes out). Not having seen either machine in person, but after watching the Bellinger video, and talking to people having used the Tom Morgan Hand Mill and reading their brochure, I would get theMorgan Hand Mill. My opinion only! Darryl Hayashida from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Thu Jun 11 11:09:20 1998 post.interalpha.net(8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id QAA28533 for ;Thu, 11 Jun 1998 16:27:06+0100 Subject: Re: Oxidising Guys Re: oxidising agent. Many thanks to the friends who made offers on and off list. At last, I seem to have finally got this one covered from a local source.I'm really looking forward to getting that super deep blue/black colour onmy ferrules. All I have to do then, is re-oxidise the 128 other rods hangingin the cupboard. There are some damned good guys on this list, and I, for one, am gratefulthat there are some selfless folks left in a hurry-scurry world. John Cooper (England) from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Thu Jun 11 11:09:25 1998 post.interalpha.net(8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id QAA28477 for ;Thu, 11 Jun 1998 16:25:47+0100 Subject: Re: Bellinger Beveler At 22:58 10/06/98 -0700, you wrote:Fellow rodmakers, I am an apprentice rodmakers in Japan,and looking for anyone with opinions regarding the Bellinger beveler. My rodmakingteacher is thinking of buying one ... from their video, it looks rather straightforward to use ... Any comments would be much appreciated. Cheers, Christian Chris I really believe that the compact beveller made by Barry Grantham may bethebest beveller EVER to have been made. The accuracy is certainlyconsistently.001" +- It's going to be expensive I think, and it simply couln't be any other way.The components are all to quality - ground bedways, high grade bearings,andthe like, and they cost a fortune. Add to this that Barry is not easy to tie down to a delivery date, and youhave debits to go with the credits. I bet is would still be making rods in 200 years though. If speed and throughput are not of the first priority, then the Morganmachine is maybe a better bet. John Cooper from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Jun 11 11:47:31 1998 Subject: Testing Ferrules I'm getting a little involved in the ferrule articlethat's going to appear in the Bamboo FlyrodMagazine. The guys there asked what typesof tests they should do on the ferrules. I suggested a few from a users standpoint,how close to stated size, how hard to fitthe male into the female, wall thickness, what percentage nickel, do they crack the thread varnish when installed and in use. Anybody have any other tests they would liketo see? Darryl Hayashida from hokkaido_flyfisher@yahoo.com Thu Jun 11 12:16:44 1998 Subject: Re: Bellinger Beveler John, It is good to talk to you after a longabsence (on my part) from Rodmakers [our lastconverstion... a scant thread on your favorite English rodmaker, if memory serves me correctly]. Hoshihara-sensei, my rod-building teacher, from what I gather, is thinking aboutstarting a rod-building business & course in Sapporo after he retires from his day job (within a few years) ... after being aself-taught amateur for about 10-15 years,I think that he's in a position to make thejob. from what I understand ... he wants a good quality machine that will save him as much rough planing as possible, while giving him as much accuracy as possible. The market here in Japan for bamboo rods is small compared to themarket for graphite, and I thinkthat he'll start this commercial endeavor as a labor of love, losing money, hoping that his rods sell through word of mouth. If there's an appropriate beveler that can help him be able to turn out a few rods a month,he would be happy. Have you used either theTM or BG's machine? Any thoughts would beappreciated. Cheers, Christian ---"J.Cooper" wrote:Chris I really believe that the compact beveller made to have been made. The accuracy is certainly consistently .001" +- It's going to be expensive I think, and it simply couln't be any other way. The components are all to quality - ground bedways, high grade bearings, and the like, and they cost a fortune. Add to this that Barry is not easy to tie down to a delivery date, and you have debits to go with the credits. I bet is would still be making rods in 200 yearsthough. If speed and throughput are not of the first priority, then the Morgan machine is maybe a better bet. John Cooper==Mr. Christian THALACKER Otaru University of CommerceMatsugae 2-6-30 Otaru International Center #253047-0022 Hokkaido JAPAN Midori 3-5-21 Otaru047 Hokkaido JAPAN http://members.tripod.com/~Nijimasu/O.htmlNothing is impossible until it is sent to a committee._________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Jun 11 12:35:55 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA189386542; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 10:35:43 -0700 Subject: RE: Testing Ferrules Daryl, Another test or rating might be in the oxidation of the ferrules. How well do they oxidize with a standard oxidation process used on all the samples you test. I suppose the percentage of nickel would be the key, but also how well the ferrules are polished and solder residue removed around the welt etc. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from rmoon@ida.net Thu Jun 11 12:42:39 1998 Subject: Re: Testing Ferrules Darryl If I recall correctly, we may have a little difference in what we expect from a ferrule. But then that is why we have fun on this list. Right?I would not buy a set of ferrules that go together before they aremounted. Unless the male is oversized, it cannot be dressed for aprecise fit. I am referring of course to high quality NS ferrules.Secondly, I am more than completely convinced that the cracking of thevarnish at the ferrule edge is an error on the part of the maker of therod, not the maker of the ferrule. The ferrule must be feathered to anextremely thin edge, and that cannot be machined into the ferrulewithout making it too fragile to handle. I do think that many ferrules are made with a solder which has too low amelting point. I have had trouble once in a while with ferrules comingapart when heated. I know enough to use only an alcohol lamp and toheat very slowly, and admittedly many ferrules are ok, but there a are afew?? Ralph from hokkaido_flyfisher@yahoo.com Thu Jun 11 13:36:03 1998 Subject: Re: Bellinger Beveler Darryl, I received/watched the Bellinger video yesterday.TM emailed me the day before (after I got hisaddress from BFR magazine), so that brochure iscoming this way. As I wrote to J Cooper, Hoshihara-sensei is not in a hurry to buy, so we'd definitely like to hear the strip by strip comparisons ;-) Cheers, Christian ---SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 6/10/98 10:58:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time,hokkaido_flyfisher@yahoo.com writes: I am an apprentice rodmakers in Japan,and looking for anyone with opinions regarding the Bellinger beveler. My rodmakingteacher is thinking of buying one ... from their video, it looks rather straightforward to use ... Any comments would be much appreciated. Cheers, Christian If he isn't in a hurry to buy one, one of the thingsI'm talking to the guys at Bamboo Flyrod Magazineabout is testing the various beveling machines outthere. They are going to do it, but the article mightnot get published until next year. The actual testing,which I'm supposed to be a part of, will probablystart this summer. I can keep you informed as it goesalong if they let me (they might want to keep the resultsto themselves until the article comes out). Not having seen either machine in person, but after watching the Bellinger video, and talking to people having used the Tom Morgan Hand Mill and reading their brochure, I would get theMorgan Hand Mill. My opinion only! Darryl Hayashida==Mr. Christian THALACKER Otaru University of CommerceMatsugae 2-6-30 Otaru International Center #253047-0022 Hokkaido JAPAN Midori 3-5-21 Otaru047 Hokkaido JAPAN http://members.tripod.com/~Nijimasu/O.htmlNothing is impossible until it is sent to a committee._________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Thu Jun 11 13:40:59 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.1); Thu,11Jun 1998 14:43:39 -0400 Subject: Re: glue for ferrules Has anyone tried Dupro(sp) brand? Home Depot sells it.Jon Lintvet8602 Wild Olive StreetPotomac, MD 20854(800) 836-7558(301) 340-0194 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Thu Jun 11 13:41:00 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.1); Thu,11Jun 1998 14:43:39 -0400 Subject: Re: glue for ferrules I also use the Shell epon for ferrules. I don't know about this 6 month biz though. I understood you were not supposed to let it freeze or sit in the sun. Jon Lintvet8602 Wild Olive StreetPotomac, MD 20854(800) 836-7558(301) 340-0194 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Thu Jun 11 13:46:02 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.1); Thu,11Jun 1998 14:47:21 -0400 Subject: Re: List Hey there...good to see you. Could you please change the link from the tools section of the web page. I think yio have it .html. It should be to .htm (or maybe it's the other way around.). Take care, Jon Lintvet8602 Wild Olive StreetPotomac, MD 20854(800) 836-7558(301) 340-0194 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from anglport@con2.com Thu Jun 11 14:50:36 1998 Subject: Re: Testing Ferrules Darryl,This may be pushing it but since you asked: I once pushed the vapor barrierright out of a female ferrule while trying to seat the thing. Prehaps youcould watch for easily displaced dams when gluing the little devils? Eversince that time I have set my ferrules with a shouldered fixture thatpusheson the dam at the same time it seats the female ferrule. No problems withthat one yet! Don't know whether mine is a common problem or not. I didn'twant to waste the bandwidth responding to your Cortland comment but,sinceI'm talking to you now, AMEN to the critique of the fit. They suck unlessyour hobby is fitting ferrules and you merely build rods as an excuse tofile nickel silver!Art At 12:45 PM 6/11/98 EDT, you wrote:I'm getting a little involved in the ferrule articlethat's going to appear in the Bamboo FlyrodMagazine. The guys there asked what typesof tests they should do on the ferrules. I suggested a few from a users standpoint,how close to stated size, how hard to fitthe male into the female, wall thickness, what percentage nickel, do they crack the thread varnish when installed and in use. Anybody have any other tests they would liketo see? Darryl Hayashida from RMargiotta@aol.com Thu Jun 11 15:15:25 1998 Subject: Glue for ferrules Is there any reason why the new polyurethane glues shouldn't work wellwithferrules? They seem to be strong, somewhat flexible and have good gapfillingproperties. --Rich from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Jun 11 16:55:47 1998 Subject: Re: Glue for ferrules In a message dated 6/11/98 1:20:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time,RMargiotta@aol.com writes: Is there any reason why the new polyurethane glues shouldn't work wellwithferrules? They seem to be strong, somewhat flexible and have good gap fillingproperties. I've used it for ferrules before. Seems okay, haven't had any failures yet. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Jun 11 17:40:08 1998 Subject: Re: Testing Ferrules In a message dated 6/11/98 10:46:10 AM Pacific Daylight Time,rmoon@ida.netwrites: I would not buy a set of ferrules that go together before they aremounted. Unless the male is oversized, it cannot be dressed for aprecise fit. I am referring of course to high quality NS ferrules. This is true, but it's a matter of degree. The Cortland ferrule males areway oversized. Bailey Woods ferrules come with the male able toengage halfway down. Much easier to fit. Secondly, I am more than completely convinced that the cracking of thevarnish at the ferrule edge is an error on the part of the maker of therod, not the maker of the ferrule. The ferrule must be feathered to anextremely thin edge, and that cannot be machined into the ferrulewithout making it too fragile to handle. I'm thinking about the discussion we had last week about serrated and nonserrated ends. Design of the ferrule may have something to do withcracking the varnish. At any rate it's something to look in to. Darryl from wbinn@michiana.org Thu Jun 11 21:05:31 1998 freenet.michiana.org (8.8.2/8.7.3(CICNet)) with ESMTP id VAA24424 for Subject: Re: Travel time Rich,The "Bridge" is about 80 miles north of Grayling but is a quick trip viaI- 75 accessed right at Grayling. Winston Binney from ragnarig@integrityol.com Thu Jun 11 22:43:29 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A58811700B6; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 20:50:32 PDT Subject: Re: Glue for ferrules Is there any reason why the new polyurethane glues shouldn't work wellwithferrules? They seem to be strong, somewhat flexible and have good gapfillingproperties. Dear Rich I've been using polyurethane glues since they were introduced to me aboutseven years ago in Bavaria (got it in the health-food store) and have hadgood luck with it on boats, musical instruments and rods. It's myunderstanding, however, that it is not to be considered gap-filling andthatthe joints should be tight. I've been thinking about using it to glue rods together, but I think thatI'll stick with epoxy (which I know is gap-filling) for ferrules. Davy from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri Jun 12 00:19:21 1998 with ESMTP id +0000 Subject: Re: Testing Ferrules How about a strain test to see how much the ferrule affects the rod action(how big is the "flat spot"?)? Ideally, you'd start with one piece rods,measuredeflection, ferrule them and re-measure deflection. George Bourke ----------From: SalarFly@aol.com Subject: Testing FerrulesDate: Thursday, June 11, 1998 9:45 AM I'm getting a little involved in the ferrule articlethat's going to appear in the Bamboo FlyrodMagazine. The guys there asked what typesof tests they should do on the ferrules. I suggested a few from a users standpoint,how close to stated size, how hard to fitthe male into the female, wall thickness, what percentage nickel, do they crack the thread varnish when installed and in use. Anybody have any other tests they would liketo see? Darryl Hayashida from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri Jun 12 00:32:55 1998 with ESMTP id +0000 Subject: Re: Testing Ferrules Hmmm, after reading some other posts I have (yet) another suggested testyou may wish to consider.You may wish to have the ferrules x-rayed to examine the how consistentandvoid-free the solderingis. The way I would suggest going about this, is to locate aHewlett-Packard 5DX X-ray Laminography(3D) system in your area. They are commonly used to examine thesolderingof printed circuit assemblies.The reasons I would suggest this system are:readily available in most metropolitan areasability to print out (in color) the results (x-rays) or store to diskin a standard graphics formatability to discriminate 10 mil slicesshould be relatively inexpensive (maybe $300 for an hour of service,should be able to examine severalsamples from all themanufacturers of ferrules you can find in an hour)I work for HP and want a bigger profit-sharing check! ;^) (justkidding folks) George Bourke ----------From: SalarFly@aol.com Subject: Testing FerrulesDate: Thursday, June 11, 1998 9:45 AM I'm getting a little involved in the ferrule articlethat's going to appear in the Bamboo FlyrodMagazine. The guys there asked what typesof tests they should do on the ferrules. I suggested a few from a users standpoint,how close to stated size, how hard to fitthe male into the female, wall thickness, what percentage nickel, do they crack the thread varnish when installed and in use. Anybody have any other tests they would liketo see? Darryl Hayashida from 3i2i7n3@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu Fri Jun 12 06:29:41 1998 CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU(IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP; Fri, 12 Jun 98 07:29:04 EDT Subject: Re: Travel time Rich, I would estimate about three hours from grayling to the bridge.It's about 150 mi. --Mark At 05:23 PM 6/10/98 -0500, you wrote:Does anyone know how long it takes to get to the Mac bridge fromGrayling?Thinknig of going home that way.Rich Jezioro*________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@ /||/______/_||_________________________________________||/\/ \ > > / \ > Mark M. FreedDepartment of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan University from 3i2i7n3@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu Fri Jun 12 06:46:21 1998 CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU(IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP; Fri, 12 Jun 98 07:45:44 EDT Subject: correction to travel time Rich, et. al. My apologies: I hastily over-calculated the travel time fromGrayling to the Bridge by about an hour. Should be about 1.5 hrs. (Irecently moved and have not yet internalized the move.) Sorry for theinaccuracy and any confusion. --MarkMark M. FreedDepartment of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan University from WDHCJL@aol.com Fri Jun 12 07:58:06 1998 Subject: Re: Travel time I seem to remember a milage sign on I-75 at Grayling saying 80 miles. Anyway,go to worldpages and you can get exact milage.doug hall from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri Jun 12 14:37:49 1998 with ESMTP id +0000 Subject: Re: Travel time Go to http://www.mapquest.com and click on tripquest. You can get exactmileagewith directions and time. George Bourke ----------From: WDHCJL@aol.com Subject: Re: Travel timeDate: Friday, June 12, 1998 5:56 AM I seem to remember a milage sign on I-75 at Grayling saying 80 miles. Anyway,go to worldpages and you can get exact milage.doug hall from MICK@welfen-netz.com Fri Jun 12 15:16:03 1998 [195.143.56.1] with SMTP(MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Fri, 12 Jun 199822:21:05 +0200 Subject: Re: block plane identification I wished I had access to my grandads tools. Anyway take care and tightlinesMichael selez@ibm.net wrote: Michael Mèller wrote: that's the pointMichael SealRite@aol.com wrote: Don't get overly detailed with descriptions & specs. A tool is just atool.It is the hands of the maker that make the difference. I use an oldmodel 65stanley that I inherited from my grandfather and it works perfectly. Keep itsharp. Craig Thanks for the generous input to all on the block plane. I was ableto successfully identify this plane as a 9 1/2, but could nothave done this without your help (all who replied). There certainlyis a huge amount of sentiment in using my grandfather's tools, andmaking them "live" again through another generation. I'm alsofound another 9 1/2, but not as good of condition. In playing withthe several planes I've found with scrap pieces of wood, each has theirown characteristic(even between the two 9 1/2s) and personality. I appreciate all theinsight shared. Sincerely,Bill Seleznoff from richjez@enteract.com Fri Jun 12 16:33:17 1998 0000 (147.126.253.18) Subject: Re: Travel time Thanks to all for the travel info.Rich Jezioro At 12:41 PM 6/12/98 -0700, you wrote:Go to http://www.mapquest.com and click on tripquest. You can get exactmileagewith directions and time. George Bourke ----------From: WDHCJL@aol.com Subject: Re: Travel timeDate: Friday, June 12, 1998 5:56 AM I seem to remember a milage sign on I-75 at Grayling saying 80 miles. Anyway,go to worldpages and you can get exact milage.doug hall *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ /||/______/_||_________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > from flyrod@artistree.com Fri Jun 12 18:29:09 1998 QAA26829 Subject: Calling George Maurer? mac-creator="4D4F5353" Does anyone have a current phone number for George Maurer? His 610-756- 6385number is no longer in service. Thanks in advance. Chris Wohlford from gwr@seanet.com Fri Jun 12 19:31:40 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA07926 for; Fri, 12 Jun 1998 Subject: Saracione Planing Forms Hi fellows, This message is, dare I say, strictly commercial. But it's applicableand one of you may appreciate the shot at picking up some good forms,thoughat a pretty penny. A friend of mine is selling off a pair of JoeSaracione's forms and I said I'd try and help him with a bit of publicity.And no, I'm not being paid for my efforts. Here's the little ad heconcocted: adjustment stations on five inch centers. Adjustable with heavy- duty,Garrison style, differential screws. These are massive, high quality,precision forms. Minimal use and, due to their scarcity, a veritablecollector's item. $1200.00, plus shipping & insurance. Three dayinspection. If you are interested please reply off list to gwr@seanet.com . Thanks, Russ from destinycon@mindspring.com Sat Jun 13 09:11:13 1998 Subject: none 1..2..3 from gwbarnes@gwi.net Sat Jun 13 11:56:14 1998 Subject: Re: Calling George Maurer? C.J. Wohlford wrote: Does anyone have a current phone number for George Maurer? His 610-756- 6385number is no longer in service. Thanks in advance. Chris Wohlford George called me last night and left his new number 610-562-8595 from fiveside@net-gate.com Sat Jun 13 15:35:36 1998 (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA25751 for ;Sat, 13 Jun 1998 16:33:50 Subject: Folsom Rod To the List,Probably an easy question to the historians on our list, but I would liketo know the background of a rod I bought when I was young. It was aFolsom,I thought a cut above the available Montagues, and I spent a lot of mypaper-route money to buy it along with a Medalist and a pair of GoodrichLitentuf hip boots. It fished a worm real well with an enamel line and silkgut leader and later handled flies just fine! Thanks for the help. Bill from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sat Jun 13 20:42:02 1998 0500 Subject: Thanks to Wayne and Darryl Several months ago Wayne posted several tapers extrapolated from the infamous Sir D Special; his 7'0" 4 weight. The longest ofthose tapers posted was a 7'6" 4 weight. After much trial and error,I finished that rod a few weeks ago (my second). A friend made theoriginal 7 footer. Though I haven't cast them side by side, I havecast both. I really believe you would be hard pressed to tell thedifference.Anyone looking for a first rod, or a taper to use a baseline next rods will be a matched set of two weights based on the sametaper. I am a very poor caster. In fact, I skip the club meetingwhen we have the casting contests. With this rod, I have littletrouble casting close in, or far and fine. I've never learned todouble haul, but I can hit 75' with this one. That's about what I cando with a 9' plastic rod. Not bad at all for a four weight! Now, ifI can just come up with an excuse to slip off and catch a trout or twowith it....All that to say this: My heartfelt thanks to Wayne, whodeveloped this taper, and Darryl who has made it popular through hisconstant praise. After only two rods I'm a long way from a master,but this taper and lots of guidance from you folks (especially Wayne)has made me feel like even a hobbyist can make a good rod. I maynever be a Payne or a Gillum, but I'll keep on making good fishingpoles! Harry Boyd from Domenic1@ix.netcom.com Sat Jun 13 21:20:01 1998 ix7.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Folsom Rod Bill,Could have been built by Edwards,or Heddon.Does the writing on the shaft resemble heddon's?If it does,than it is.Domenic CroceCroce Rod Co.----- Original Message----- Subject: Folsom Rod To the List,Probably an easy question to the historians on our list, but I would liketo know the background of a rod I bought when I was young. It was aFolsom,I thought a cut above the available Montagues, and I spent a lot of mypaper-route money to buy it along with a Medalist and a pair of GoodrichLitentuf hip boots. It fished a worm real well with an enamel line andsilkgut leader and later handled flies just fine! Thanks for the help. Bill from Domenic1@ix.netcom.com Sat Jun 13 21:20:04 1998 ix7.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Fw: Folsom Rod -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Folsom Rod Bill,Could have been built by Edwards,or Heddon.Does the writing on the shaft resemble heddon's?If it does,than it is.Domenic CroceCroce Rod Co.----- Original Message-----From: Bill Fink Date: Saturday, June 13, 1998 4:39 PMSubject: Folsom Rod To the List,Probably an easy question to the historians on our list, but I wouldliketo know the background of a rod I bought when I was young. It was aFolsom,I thought a cut above the available Montagues, and I spent a lot of mypaper-route money to buy it along with a Medalist and a pair of GoodrichLitentuf hip boots. It fished a worm real well with an enamel line andsilkgut leader and later handled flies just fine! Thanks for the help. Bill from channer@hubwest.com Sat Jun 13 23:28:35 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A1DA77400C0; Sat, 13 Jun 1998 22:30:18 MDT Subject: Re: Thanks to Wayne and Darryl At 08:39 PM 6/13/98 -0500, you wrote:Several months ago Wayne posted several tapers extrapolated from the infamous Sir D Special; his 7'0" 4 weight. The longest ofthose tapers posted was a 7'6" 4 weight. After much trial and error,I finished that rod a few weeks ago (my second). A friend made theoriginal 7 footer. Though I haven't cast them side by side, I havecast both. I really believe you would be hard pressed to tell thedifference.Anyone looking for a first rod, or a taper to use a baseline next rods will be a matched set of two weights based on the sametaper. I am a very poor caster. In fact, I skip the club meetingwhen we have the casting contests. With this rod, I have littletrouble casting close in, or far and fine. I've never learned todouble haul, but I can hit 75' with this one. That's about what I cando with a 9' plastic rod. Not bad at all for a four weight! Now, ifI can just come up with an excuse to slip off and catch a trout or twowith it....All that to say this: My heartfelt thanks to Wayne, whodeveloped this taper, and Darryl who has made it popular through hisconstant praise. After only two rods I'm a long way from a master,but this taper and lots of guidance from you folks (especially Wayne)has made me feel like even a hobbyist can make a good rod. I maynever be a Payne or a Gillum, but I'll keep on making good fishingpoles! Harry Boyd Harry;Is this the same 7'6" 4 wt. taper in Waynes book? If not, could you tell mewhen it was posted or possibly post it again, I seem to have missed it thelast time it was on list. I built a 6'3" Paul Young Midge that I feel thesame way about, but it's a little short for the San Juan, a 7'6" would be alot better. Thanks.John Channer from jfoster@gte.net Sun Jun 14 00:00:01 1998 Subject: Re: Incorrect Publisher listed for "Fine Bamboo Fly Rod" mac-creator="4D4F5353" Mr Kirkfield, all I have corrected the error in the date ad publisher of your book, sorry "The Fine Bamboo Fly Rod, a Master's Secrets ofRestoration and Repair"regards Jerry from flyrod@artistree.com Sun Jun 14 04:26:37 1998 CAA00808 Subject: Cracked Varnish at Ferrules mac-creator="4D4F5353" Was reading John Alden Knight's "Field Book of Fresh Water Angling" and hestates the following: "In the wrapping of serrations at the end of the ferrules with aprotective coating of thread, the better practice is to have the windingstop exactly where the wood meats the metal. If this is not done and thewinding is carried down over the wood, sooner or later the varnish-coatedthread will crack where the wood and ferrule meet, leaving a vulnerablespot in the waterproof armor of varnish. This means that moisture canenter and rot the wood." Best Regards,Chris Wohlford from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sun Jun 14 07:26:17 1998 0500 Subject: Thanks to Wayne and Darryl E6EE95B97B4EFBC7925708B6" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- E6EE95B97B4EFBC7925708B6 John,I've forwarded Wayne's original post. I feel sure Wayne will notmind. His attitude seems to be one of genuine delight in helpingother rodmakers. I hope this helps you find a rod as enjoyable asyour Young Midge.Harry --------------E6EE95B97B4EFBC7925708B6 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Subject: The Sir D Series The following is a work up of a series of tapers based on the 7' Sir Dfavorite. I have stretched the stress graph to develope a 7' 6" and shortedit to accomodate a 6' 3" after the curves were developed they were ranthrough Hexrod to create dimensions for #2 - #3 - #4 weight rods in both2 &3 piece rods. The stress curves are as follows: 65" action length tip - 452505 - 21195010 - 27175015 - 21887520 - 17287525 - 15915030 - 14725035 - 12692540 - 11040045 - 12130050 - 13490055 - 11727560 - 11687565 - 101050 80" action lengthtip - 452505 - 21195010 - 271750 15 - 21887520 - 17287525 - 16345030 - 15250035 - 14700040 - 14265045 - 12692550 - 11040055 - 12130060 - 13490065 - 11772570 - 11727575 - 11687580 - 101050 To maintain the full character the peaks and valleys were moved totheclosest 5" increment that is why several stress values are the same. 6' 3" #2 tip -.054 .05405 .056 .05610 .066 .06615 .083 .08320 .101 .10125 .114 .11430 .126 .12835 .143 .14740 .162 .16545 .170 .17250 .176 .17755 .197 .19860 .210 .21265 .233 .23670 .233 .23675 .233 .236 6' 3" #3 tip .061 .06105 .063 .06310 .074 .07415 .092 .09220 .112 .11225 .126 .12630 .139 .14135 .157 .16140 .178 .18245 .186 .18850 .192 .19355 .214 .21660 .228 .23065 .253 .25670 .253 .25675 .253 .256 6' 3" #4 tip .066 .06605 .068 .06810 .080 .08015 .099 .09920 .120 .12025 .135 .13530 .149 .15235 .168 .17240 .189 .19445 .198 .20050 .204 .20655 .227 .23060 .241 .24565 .267 .27270 .267 .27275 .267 .272 7' 6" #2 tip .054 .05405 .056 .05610 .066 .06615 .083 .08320 .101 .10125 .113 .11330 .125 .12535 .136 .13840 .147 .15045 .164 .16750 .185 .18755 .192 .19360 .196 .19765 .219 .21970 .232 .23375 .245 .24780 .271 .27385 .271 .27390 .271 .273 7' 6" #3 tip .061 .06105 .063 .06310 .074 .07415 .092 .09220 .112 .11225 .124 .12430 .138 .13835 .150 .15240 .162 .16545 .179 .18350 .202 .20455 .209 .21060 .214 .21565 .237 .23870 .251 .25375 .264 .26780 .291 .29585 .291 .29590 .291 .295 7' 6" #4tip .066 .06605 .068 .06810 .080 .08015 .099 .09920 .119 .11925 .133 .13330 .148 .14835 .160 .16240 .172 .17545 .190 .19550 .214 .21755 .221 .22360 .226 .22765 .251 .25270 .265 .26775 .279 .28180 .307 .31085 .307 .31090 .307 .310 The narrowness between the 2 and 3 piece dimensions reflect some finetuning I have done on the ferrule weights that I am using.What will perhaps shock a few - I have never fished the 7' #4. I madeone,I have lawn cast a couple and I was going to fish it. But as we weresuitingup at the Broomhead Bridge on the N. Branch of the Boardman I set the rodcase on top of my Jimmy. The horror was when the rod case fell off theroof.Falling into pure sand the rod case split in half and took the rod with it.Never use highly burled walnut in a wooden rod case. Ron glued the case -itbroke in two again as I lifted it up. The rod was beyond repair - Ron justshrugged his shoulders - not responsible. --------------E6EE95B97B4EFBC7925708B6-- from channer@hubwest.com Sun Jun 14 08:52:46 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A6183D90104; Sun, 14 Jun 1998 07:54:32 MDT Subject: thanks Wayne and Darryl(and Harry) Hi Harry:Thanks alot for posting that again; no wonder I missed it, I didn't getback online until after Christmas. I can never seem to get a full month ofthe most recent archives to download before my computer crashes, sothereis quite a bit I have missed since last summer. Thanks again.John Channer from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Jun 14 08:53:08 1998 head.globalcom.net(8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id JAA08559; Sun, 14 Jun 1998 09:53:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Cracked Varnish at Ferrules ChrisThink about what is written - it doesn't solve the problem. If the ferrule is not mounted properly and it would crack the thread - it willalso enhancethe separation between the wrap up to the ferrule also. I don't buy thissolution.It treats the symptoms not the cause of the problem. First not all ferrules will have this problem if mounted properly. Mypersonal rodwhich probably ranks up there with one of the most used and abused rodsonthe list does not have this problem. There are several others out therethat seemto survive this just fine. So I would not take this as a fact of life. I feather my ferrule tabs like Wayne does - but I mount them on theedges of the flat rather than center (my reasons). I will not get into thegluecontroversy but I use Devcon 5 ton thick epoxy gel. With a good fit itseems to work. The thread on this particular rod is 3/0 silk. Regards Chris On Sun, 14 Jun 1998 02:31:50 -0800, C.J. Wohlford wrote: Was reading John Alden Knight's "Field Book of Fresh Water Angling" andhestates the following: "In the wrapping of serrations at the end of the ferrules with aprotective coating of thread, the better practice is to have the windingstop exactly where the wood meats the metal. If this is not done and thewinding is carried down over the wood, sooner or later the varnish-coatedthread will crack where the wood and ferrule meet, leaving a vulnerablespot in the waterproof armor of varnish. This means that moisture canenter and rot the wood." Best Regards,Chris Wohlford from rcurry@top.monad.net Sun Jun 14 10:04:34 1998 Subject: Re: Cracked Varnish at Ferrules I don't know that there is any resolution to this problem, I've seen iton rods by some of the best makers. Perhaps it is enhanced by the taper,the type of varnish, the age of varnish, the relative humidity, hot sun(heating metal more than wood), rod-loading, etc. One approach that seems to prevent this from manifesting itself is adouble wrap at the ferrule. Maybe, this provides a "sleeve" for theinner wrap to move without breaking the varnish.Best regards,Reed from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Jun 14 11:30:04 1998 head.globalcom.net(8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id MAA03358; Sun, 14 Jun 1998 12:30:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Cracked Varnish at Ferrules ReedI agree with your assessment. But I think the problem starts firstwith thefit - then all the other factors come into play. There are a number ofthings andtricks that will allow you to "mitigate" the problem. I seen rods - basically brandnew and first time fished develop this problem. Then others never crack -sametaper. It seems in building rods - each one seem to have their own littlequirksduring building that you end up fussing with - maybe you just don't getthat real good fit for whatever reason. It is that movement that will cause youproblemsin the long run. While others seem to fit just right but isn't just asstraight - justcannot get that perfect rod where everything is just right. Chris On Sun, 14 Jun 1998 10:56:58 -0400, Reed F. Curry wrote: I don't know that there is any resolution to this problem, I've seen iton rods by some of the best makers. Perhaps it is enhanced by the taper,the type of varnish, the age of varnish, the relative humidity, hot sun(heating metal more than wood), rod-loading, etc. One approach that seems to prevent this from manifesting itself is adouble wrap at the ferrule. Maybe, this provides a "sleeve" for theinner wrap to move without breaking the varnish.Best regards,Reed from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Jun 14 11:43:08 1998 head.globalcom.net(8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id MAA05389; Sun, 14 Jun 1998 12:43:09 -0400 Subject: Poll - cracked wraps at ferrules Chris / Reed Just thought it might be a good idea of how bad a problem this iswith todays rods.Are rodmakers having a gross problem, sometimes problem, or littleproblem preventingthis from happening. Of course, by the time my rods are twenty years old I could be deadand gone arereally it will be too late to correct the problem. But really a rod shouldnot crack the wrapswithin the first year of use - this should be a good yardstick to measurethe problem by - sincewe cannot wait 30-50 years which is the age of many rods I end uprepairing - unless it isone of Reed's 100 year old classics! Chris from flyrod@artistree.com Sun Jun 14 13:59:34 1998 LAA28437 Subject: Re: Cracked Varnish at Ferrules mac-creator="4D4F5353" Chris,I agree. I haven't had any problems with the way I do my ferrules stationseither. I also feelthat the varnish I use might have something to do with it. I was justpassing on a little info from an author who has personally known and hung around some veryprominentrodmakers/designers of the past. He also had a few other things to say such as: 1) He doesn't like flaming. Says it causes uneven temperament of the cane.2) Seems to have something negative to say about each type of taperexcept, of course, theparabolic.3) He doesn't like the "dipping" method. Says 5 thin coats of brushed onvarnish provides abetter protection (higher quality) then 2 thick coats dipped. I have to admit I wasn't expecting these type of statements and foundthem kind ofinteresting. Best Regards,Chris Wohlford Chris Bogart wrote: ChrisThink about what is written - it doesn't solve the problem. If theferrule is not mounted properly and it would crack the thread - it willalso enhancethe separation between the wrap up to the ferrule also. I don't buy thissolution.It treats the symptoms not the cause of the problem. First not all ferrules will have this problem if mounted properly. Mypersonal rodwhich probably ranks up there with one of the most used and abused rodsonthe list does not have this problem. There are several others out therethat seemto survive this just fine. So I would not take this as a fact of life. I feather my ferrule tabs like Wayne does - but I mount them on theedges of the flat rather than center (my reasons). I will not get into thegluecontroversy but I use Devcon 5 ton thick epoxy gel. With a good fit itseemsto work. The thread on this particular rod is 3/0 silk. Regards Chris On Sun, 14 Jun 1998 02:31:50 -0800, C.J. Wohlford wrote: Was reading John Alden Knight's "Field Book of Fresh Water Angling" andhestates the following: "In the wrapping of serrations at the end of the ferrules with aprotective coating of thread, the better practice is to have the windingstop exactly where the wood meats the metal. If this is not done andthewinding is carried down over the wood, sooner or later the varnish-coatedthread will crack where the wood and ferrule meet, leaving a vulnerablespot in the waterproof armor of varnish. This means that moisture canenter and rot the wood." Best Regards,Chris Wohlford from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Jun 14 14:20:28 1998 Subject: Re: Cracked Varnish at Ferrules from experience this I term as a 'casting fracture' - a ring of fracturedvarnish that encircles the rod section. This haunted me for a couple ofyearsbut today there are a couple of ways that the occurance an be reduced.A machinist friend once told me that when machining alunimum thatyou canneder leave abrupt dropoffs - the material will fracture at these points -Iapplied that to the bamboo ferrule transition - Today I crown the ferruletabs- that is sand the tabs flat wise until the normal square tab look the tabends will actually curve to a point - then flatwise the tabs are alsosandedto gradually blend into nothingness at the points as well. This adds flexureto the ferrule tabs vs the abrupt dropoff if used uncrowned.Additionally when the ferrules are glued on I try to keep the rod sectionin a position so that the glue will sag to fill the void between bamboo andthe ferrule - keep the bamboo end up at all times - wrapping down theferruletabe- in storage as the glue cures the rod section is leaned with thebambooupright - ferrule down.Lastly - Mr Garrison used a thicker threaqd for wrapping the ferruletabs - an a size - the normal for guides is oo. personally I don't do this butit could be.Having started using these ideas several years ago I have seen adramaticdifference in the occurrance of casting fractures - you might give these a try. Another thing:The question has come up about reposting or sharing - writings - tapers-others - that has been posted to the Rodmakers list group - My personalfeeling is that the thoughts - ideas -tapers - are up for common use andcanbe reshared by those wanting to - later these same thoughts - ideas - tapersmay appear in other media but there is no concern on my part as any'copyright' concerns - Finally Because of the many requests to be included in the ferrule order bythosenot attending Grayrock 98 - Your request can be added to the order - figureferrule costs at $ 25 for 2 male sets - $ 20 for 1 male sets - then add acouple of bucks to each order for postage - Ferrule requests need to be inby6-20 and will be shipped around 7-1 (needing time to return and recoverfromGrayrock) - ALSO - be sure to include an address for the post office todeliver the ferrules to. Payment can be made after recieving your orders.-However I can not accept VISA.FYI - for those wanting to place large orders - I would suggest that youmight contact Bailey Wood Directly - his pricing policy is that you recievea40 % discount on orders that are over $500 list price - about $300 net. Jack Pine Rodmaker (Poster) ackward positions (there is an honest explanation) - anyhow - the photohasmade its way to a poster identifying myself as ' Jack Pine Rodmaker' - itis ahumorous photo - I have always said that folks need to laugh atthemselves aswell - this was all done in a very good natured way. In the short time thatthe poster has existed there have been numerous requests to get one - itmayeven be seen in an upcoming issue of The Bamboo Fly Rod mag - Great HUH- Soin good spirit of this the (con) artist Chuck Curro and I have come up withthe idea of making the poster available in it's original size for a small fee($15) - the thought is to have a limited edition of 100 posters signed bythe(con) artist - with proceeds above the cost of printing going to the GeorgeMason TU chapter for their work around the Grayrock area. They will beavailable at Grayrock or e-mail. I'm sure that when you see the poster youwill sigh with relief that it wasn't yourself in the picture - from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Jun 14 15:03:45 1998 Subject: Jack Pine Rodmaker boundary="part0_897854591_boundary" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_897854591_boundary channer@hubwest.com Sun Jun 14 16:11:06 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id ACD472A00C8; Sun, 14 Jun 1998 15:12:52 MDT Subject: Re: Poll - cracked wraps at ferrules At 12:39 PM 6/14/98 -0400, you wrote:Chris / Reed Just thought it might be a good idea of how bad a problem this iswithtodays rods.Are rodmakers having a gross problem, sometimes problem, or littleproblempreventingthis from happening. Of course, by the time my rods are twenty years old I could be deadandgone arereally it will be too late to correct the problem. But really a rod shouldnot crack the wrapswithin the first year of use - this should be a good yardstick to measurethe problem by - sincewe cannot wait 30-50 years which is the age of many rods I end uprepairing - unless it isone of Reed's 100 year old classics! Chris Chris;I just had the first rod I sold come back to me because one of the tipferrules pulled off(Devcon, I used Accraglas gel this time, hope it neverhappens again.) The other ferrules were tight, but I re-glued themanyway.However, all three wraps at the ferrules were cracked, as are theferrule wraps on the two rods I have built for myself. I have re-finished 4old rods of my own, using laquer color preserver, and not only the ferrulewraps crack, but so have several guide wraps on each rod. My new rods Iusepoly on the wraps first, then dip 2 coats of spar varnish, waiting 3or 4days between coats. Am I doing something wrong, or is this a combinationofthe very likely and bad luck. I feather the tabs down almost, but not quitesharp and fold them over the corners. Any advise will be most appreciated,I would rather not have to tell a customer to expect a flaw to develop inhis rod if I can remedy this situation. Thanks Very Much.John Channer from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Jun 14 18:15:40 1998 head.globalcom.net(8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA09792; Sun, 14 Jun 1998 19:15:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Cracked Varnish at Ferrules ChrisIt is funny when you look back at comments in time - especially whena lotof rodmakers did not share info. The only shame in the statements is thatthere is noneof the varnishes still around that would really be great for brushing - Iwould never recommend two thick coats either - maybe that is why the varnishcracked. Chris PS - did he have anything nice to say about nodes? On Sun, 14 Jun 1998 12:04:48 -0800, C.J. Wohlford wrote: Chris,I agree. I haven't had any problems with the way I do my ferrules stationseither. I also feelthat the varnish I use might have something to do with it. I was justpassing on a little info from an author who has personally known and hung around some veryprominentrodmakers/designers of the past. He also had a few other things to say such as: 1) He doesn't like flaming. Says it causes uneven temperament of thecane.2) Seems to have something negative to say about each type of taperexcept, of course, theparabolic.3) He doesn't like the "dipping" method. Says 5 thin coats of brushed onvarnish provides abetter protection (higher quality) then 2 thick coats dipped. I have to admit I wasn't expecting these type of statements and foundthem kind ofinteresting. Best Regards,Chris Wohlford Chris Bogart wrote: ChrisThink about what is written - it doesn't solve the problem. If theferrule is not mounted properly and it would crack the thread - it willalso enhancethe separation between the wrap up to the ferrule also. I don't buy thissolution.It treats the symptoms not the cause of the problem. First not all ferrules will have this problem if mounted properly.My personal rodwhich probably ranks up there with one of the most used and abusedrods onthe list does not have this problem. There are several others out therethat seemto survive this just fine. So I would not take this as a fact of life. I feather my ferrule tabs like Wayne does - but I mount them ontheedges of the flat rather than center (my reasons). I will not get into thegluecontroversy but I use Devcon 5 ton thick epoxy gel. With a good fit itseemsto work. The thread on this particular rod is 3/0 silk. Regards Chris On Sun, 14 Jun 1998 02:31:50 -0800, C.J. Wohlford wrote: Was reading John Alden Knight's "Field Book of Fresh Water Angling"and hestates the following: "In the wrapping of serrations at the end of the ferrules with aprotective coating of thread, the better practice is to have the windingstop exactly where the wood meats the metal. If this is not done andthewinding is carried down over the wood, sooner or later the varnish-coatedthread will crack where the wood and ferrule meet, leaving avulnerablespot in the waterproof armor of varnish. This means that moisture canenter and rot the wood." Best Regards,Chris Wohlford from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Jun 14 18:25:12 1998 head.globalcom.net(8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA11436; Sun, 14 Jun 1998 19:25:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Poll - cracked wraps at ferrules JohnWayne's advise on this is sound - if you believe it coming from a JackPineSavage Rodmaker - of course that is a term some hold in esteem -remember this is Michigan we are talking about. I have seen one other nice trick to ease the transition from ferrule tocaneput a wrap of masking tape about 1/8" in front of the ferrule and then fillthe gap with clearepoxy and then gently remove the masking tape as the rod is turning inyour rod turner. It will form a nice smooth transition. Then wrap over everything. Chris On Sun, 14 Jun 1998 15:06:33, john channer wrote: At 12:39 PM 6/14/98 -0400, you wrote:Chris / Reed Just thought it might be a good idea of how bad a problem this iswithtodays rods.Are rodmakers having a gross problem, sometimes problem, or littleproblempreventingthis from happening. Of course, by the time my rods are twenty years old I could be deadandgone arereally it will be too late to correct the problem. But really a rod shouldnot crack the wrapswithin the first year of use - this should be a good yardstick to measurethe problem by - sincewe cannot wait 30-50 years which is the age of many rods I end uprepairing - unless it isone of Reed's 100 year old classics! Chris Chris;I just had the first rod I sold come back to me because one of the tipferrules pulled off(Devcon, I used Accraglas gel this time, hope it neverhappens again.) The other ferrules were tight, but I re-glued themanyway.However, all three wraps at the ferrules were cracked, as are theferrule wraps on the two rods I have built for myself. I have re- finished4old rods of my own, using laquer color preserver, and not only the ferrulewraps crack, but so have several guide wraps on each rod. My new rods Iusepoly on the wraps first, then dip 2 coats of spar varnish, waiting 3or 4days between coats. Am I doing something wrong, or is this a combinationofthe very likely and bad luck. I feather the tabs down almost, but not quitesharp and fold them over the corners. Any advise will be mostappreciated,I would rather not have to tell a customer to expect a flaw to develop inhis rod if I can remedy this situation. Thanks Very Much.John Channer from jwilcox@netsync.net Sun Jun 14 19:15:46 1998 quartz.netsync.net(8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA05817 for ;Sun, 14 Jun 1998 20:15:43-0400 Subject: darryl's c-clamp splitting method boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004C_01BD97D1.1D48A0E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004C_01BD97D1.1D48A0E0 guys, i was browsing through the archives and came across brian creek's =reference to darryl's c-clamp splitting method. does anyone know =exactly which month of the archives i should go to to read about =darryl's method? also i just finished the blank for a leonard model 39h =7' 6" 4wt. however i converted it to a 3 pc. does anyone have some =recommendations for guide placements. i have a placement pattern that i=used on another 7' 6" rod, but i'm open to suggestions for a comparison =to what i already have. many thanks! jim wilcox, fredonia,new york ------=_NextPart_000_004C_01BD97D1.1D48A0E0 guys,i = through the archives and came across brian creek's reference to darryl's = have a placement pattern that i used on another 7' 6" rod, but i'm = jim wilcox, fredonia,new york ------=_NextPart_000_004C_01BD97D1.1D48A0E0-- from rcurry@top.monad.net Sun Jun 14 19:37:50 1998 Subject: Note About Nodeless Chris,According to A.J. Campbell's book, the oldest rod in the AmericanMuseum of FF with a split cane tip used nodeless construction.So, what's new?Best regards,Reed from channer@hubwest.com Sun Jun 14 20:56:35 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AFBE66100D6; Sun, 14 Jun 1998 19:58:22 MDT Subject: Re: Poll - cracked wraps at ferrules At 07:21 PM 6/14/98 -0400, you wrote:JohnWayne's advise on this is sound - if you believe it coming from aJack PineSavage Rodmaker - of course that is a term some hold in esteem -rememberthis is Michigan we are talking about. I have seen one other nice trick to ease the transition from ferruleto caneput a wrap of masking tape about 1/8" in front of the ferrule and thenfill the gap with clearepoxy and then gently remove the masking tape as the rod is turning inyour rod turner. It will form a nice smooth transition. Then wrap over everything. Chris Chris;This sounds like a neat trick, I'll give it a try, I have the ferrules onthis rod re-glued, but I haven't wrapped them yet. I am waiting for thedoctors to take the splint off my right hand so I can do a good job on thewraps. It was fun trying to get the ferrules off with one hand and threefingers. BTW, don't drop large beams on your right hand, it reallyinterfers with rodmaking and fishing, not to mention making aliving.Thanks John Channer from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sun Jun 14 21:29:33 1998 Subject: Taper help(!) Gentlemen,I just got a request to make an 8'6" 5/6 weight in a TWO piece.Does anybody out there have a taper that they'd be able to share?Anxiously... Rob Hoffhines from ragnarig@integrityol.com Sun Jun 14 21:51:33 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id AE053B8013C; Sun, 14 Jun 1998 19:59:17 PDT Subject: Re: darryl's c-clamp splitting method boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003B_01BD97CF.8F73D740" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01BD97CF.8F73D740 i just finished the blank for a leonard model 39h 7' 6" 4wt. =however i converted it to a 3 pc. does anyone have some recommendations= 7' 6" rod, but i'm open to suggestions for a comparison to what i =already have. many thanks! jim wilcox, fredonia,new york Dear Jim A good starting point would be the guide spacings for the 7ft 6in =F.E. Thomas taper listed in the archives. You seem to have little option with a three-piece; the stripper =almost has to go right up against the butt ferrule, and a snake will =usually need to go in the same position at the top of the mid. If =anything, the Leonard will possibly want its guides a little more =closely grouped in the tip section. As always, it's a good idea to wrap them on with masking tape and =flex the rod to see if any guides aren't touching the line, and then =cast it for a while just to make sure. I'm not familiar with this taper =but I'd guess that the Thomas spacings would work fine. ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01BD97CF.8F73D740 ijust = 6" rod, but i'm open to suggestions for a comparison to what i = york Jim Agood = point would be the guide spacings for the 7ft 6in F.E. Thomas taper = in the archives. You= up against the butt ferrule, and a snake will usually need to go in = section. As= good idea to wrap them on with masking tape and flex the rod to see = guides aren't touching the line, and then cast it for a while just = spacings would work fine. ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01BD97CF.8F73D740-- from jczimny@dol.net Sun Jun 14 22:59:40 1998 Subject: Re: Note About Nodeless No! Say it is not so! Maybe the old timers handled their nodes so well thatone simply could not discern them.John Zimny Reed F. Curry wrote: Chris,According to A.J. Campbell's book, the oldest rod in the AmericanMuseum of FF with a split cane tip used nodeless construction.So, what's new?Best regards,Reed from cattanac@wmis.net Mon Jun 15 00:30:47 1998 t2.wmis.net (8.8.5/SCO5) with SMTP 05:36:54 GMT Subject: Re: Note About Nodeless Gee - I wonder if any of the older noded makers ever got a box of nodes bypony express???????? from flyrod@artistree.com Mon Jun 15 01:45:11 1998 XAA09454 Subject: Re: Cracked Varnish at Ferrules mac-creator="4D4F5353" Chris,Not really, just that "...the leaf marks or nodes in the bamboo present aproblem. These spotsarethe weakest part of the cane, and two of them should not be placed next toeach other."...hey...wait a minute....are you playing me for a patsy here??? :) Chris "They'll bury me with my nodes on" Wohlford Chris Bogart wrote: ChrisIt is funny when you look back at comments in time - especiallywhen a lotof rodmakers did not share info. The only shame in the statements isthat there is noneof the varnishes still around that would really be great for brushing - Iwould neverrecommend two thick coats either - maybe that is why the varnishcracked. Chris PS - did he have anything nice to say about nodes? On Sun, 14 Jun 1998 12:04:48 -0800, C.J. Wohlford wrote: Chris,I agree. I haven't had any problems with the way I do my ferrulesstations either. I alsofeelthat the varnish I use might have something to do with it. I was justpassing on a littleinfo from an author who has personally known and hung around some veryprominentrodmakers/designers of the past. He also had a few other things to say such as: 1) He doesn't like flaming. Says it causes uneven temperament of thecane.2) Seems to have something negative to say about each type of taperexcept, of course, theparabolic.3) He doesn't like the "dipping" method. Says 5 thin coats of brushed onvarnish provides abetter protection (higher quality) then 2 thick coats dipped. I have to admit I wasn't expecting these type of statements and foundthem kind ofinteresting. Best Regards,Chris Wohlford Chris Bogart wrote: ChrisThink about what is written - it doesn't solve the problem. If theferrule is not mounted properly and it would crack the thread - it willalso enhancethe separation between the wrap up to the ferrule also. I don't buy thissolution.It treats the symptoms not the cause of the problem. First not all ferrules will have this problem if mounted properly.My personal rodwhich probably ranks up there with one of the most used and abusedrods onthe list does not have this problem. There are several others out therethat seemto survive this just fine. So I would not take this as a fact of life. I feather my ferrule tabs like Wayne does - but I mount them ontheedges of the flat rather than center (my reasons). I will not get intothe gluecontroversy but I use Devcon 5 ton thick epoxy gel. With a good fit itseemsto work. The thread on this particular rod is 3/0 silk. Regards Chris On Sun, 14 Jun 1998 02:31:50 -0800, C.J. Wohlford wrote: Was reading John Alden Knight's "Field Book of Fresh Water Angling"and hestates the following: "In the wrapping of serrations at the end of the ferrules with aprotective coating of thread, the better practice is to have thewindingstop exactly where the wood meats the metal. If this is not done andthewinding is carried down over the wood, sooner or later the varnish-coatedthread will crack where the wood and ferrule meet, leaving avulnerablespot in the waterproof armor of varnish. This means that moisturecanenter and rot the wood." Best Regards,Chris Wohlford from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Jun 15 02:15:35 1998 Subject: Re: Poll - cracked wraps at ferrules I've never had a two piece rod develop cracked wraps at the ferrule,but I have had 2 three piece rods develop cracks at the lower wrapof the lower ferrule. I have seen quite a few old Orvis rods at the Bamboo Flyrod Magoffice, and every single one of them has cracked wraps at theferrule. Both 2 piece and three piece. Some of the other brands of rods also have cracked wraps, butthe occurrence seems to be random - except for Orvis. Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Jun 15 02:40:14 1998 Subject: Re: Thanks to Wayne and Darryl I've posted this before, it's a true story about this taper. My Dad is a poor caster. I've tried and tried to help him improve hiscasting (not that I'm a great caster myself...), but I gave up tryingto help him. I told him to improve his wading skills so he could getwithin 30' of the fish, bacause he would never get his fly to a fishoutside that range. I just happened to pick this taper out of Wayne's book when my Dadrequested that I make him a 7' 4 DT. When it was finished and I testcasted it I was amazed how well it casts. When I gave it to my Dad,I thought I would have to help him for a couple hours to get him tocast to 30' again. He picked up the rod, two false casts, and 50'of line went zinging out first cast. He can get it out in the 65 to 70' range with no problem now. My whole family went fishing once, my wife watched my Dad for awhile, and said "Looks like he's been practicing. His casts are sosmooth now." I told her, "No, it's the rod I made him." She said,"Yeah, right." Oh well, she keeps me honest. This is also the same taper that Jamie Lyle from Sage cast to90' when he tried it out at a flyfishing show in Long Beach CA. Darryl from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Mon Jun 15 07:30:17 1998 post.interalpha.net(8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id NAA25505 for ;Mon, 15 Jun 1998 13:32:31+0100 Subject: Re: Cracked Varnish at Ferrules At 15:19 14/06/98 EDT, you wrote: from experience this I term as a 'casting fracture' - a ring offracturedvarnish that encircles the rod section. This haunted me for a couple ofyearsbut today there are a couple of ways that the occurance an be reduced.A machinist friend once told me that when machining alunimum thatyou canneder leave abrupt dropoffs - the material will fracture at these points -Iapplied that to the bamboo ferrule transition - Today I crown the ferruletabs- that is sand the tabs flat wise until the normal square tab look the tabends will actually curve to a point - then flatwise the tabs are alsosandedto gradually blend into nothingness at the points as well. This addsflexureto the ferrule tabs vs the abrupt dropoff if used uncrowned.Additionally when the ferrules are glued on I try to keep the rodsectionin a position so that the glue will sag to fill the void between bamboo andthe ferrule - keep the bamboo end up at all times - wrapping down theferruletabe- in storage as the glue cures the rod section is leaned with thebambooupright - ferrule down.Lastly - Mr Garrison used a thicker threaqd for wrapping the ferruletabs - an a size - the normal for guides is oo. personally I don't do thisbutit could be.Having started using these ideas several years ago I have seen adramaticdifference in the occurrance of casting fractures - you might give these a try. The double wrapping method works for me. The (many) rods that havearrivedin my workshop with cracks as described, have not re-offended after thistreatment. I make one small change from the normal twice over, up and downoverwrapmethod. I start with 1/8" on the shaft wrap up over the serrations to theshoulder, then wrap straight back down, but ONLY TO THE END OF THESERRATIONS. Seems to work for me. John Cooper (England) from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Mon Jun 15 07:30:27 1998 post.interalpha.net(8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id NAA25522 for ;Mon, 15 Jun 1998 13:32:44+0100 Subject: Re: Bevellers Davy, Christian, and others. This Grantham beveller is really the 'cat's whiskers'. I think it'll beabout $6,000, so it will probably be too expensive for operations smallerthan Hardy's, Winston or Orvis. Having said that, I would think the otherprofessional machines out there would now cost two or three times asmuch.I've seen the old Sharpes of Aberdeen beveller (now at Scottie rods inLondon) and I wouldn't think you'd get much change out of $15,000/$20,000 hobby machine. It will spit out super-accurate splines all day, every day.It roughs AND tapers. I think if I were making a supplementary income from twenty rods a yearI'dgo for the Morgan (I want one myself). If I wanted to make a living fromrodmaking, I'd plump for the Grantham, and would expect it to pay for itselfpretty quicky. Bear in mind too, it would retain its value pretty well. I just don't have the answers to all the technical queries. As it has comeup a couple of times I have at least got the answer from Barry that thehighspeed cutter feed will be power driven on a lathe type leadscrew within/outhalf-nut on a lever. Feed will be approx. 3"/ sec. I gather that it issimilar in some respects to the system Hardy's used for their famousPalakona split bamboo. Barry is a friend of mine. We've fished together happily, and spoken forhours about life in general. BUT, I have to say (sorry Barry) he'sstaggeringly unreliable. He's a lovely man, and he doesn't mean to let folksdown, he just has things going on in his life. So, you need to understandwhat you're dealing with. His work is PERFECT. You can write to Barry directly as follows: Barry Grantham7 Brant Road,Lincoln,LN5 8RLEngland or you can fax him on: (International Code 44) 01522.535500 Best to all, John Cooper (England) from gwr@seanet.com Mon Jun 15 09:32:53 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA15210 for; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 Subject: Greenheart Hi, I was wondering if anyone has, or could suggest a source for, greenheartdowels or turning stock. I must replace a section on an old rod and need tolocate a piece of greenheart that is 3/8" dia. x 30" long. Larger than thatis fine. If you have a piece, please contact me off list at gwr@seanet.comto arrange a sale or trade. Thanks in advance for the assistance. Russ from cmj@post11.tele.dk Mon Jun 15 09:38:10 1998 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA10550 +0200 Subject: Sv: Cracked Varnish at Ferrules John Cooper wrote from DBURRILL@TELEHUB.com Mon Jun 15 10:52:00 1998 Subject: Hardy Casting Rod boundary="---- =_NextPart_001_01BD9875.68484CEA" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_001_01BD9875.68484CEA Gang,My parents just returned from an extended trip in England. As agift they brought me a Hardy split bamboo casting. It's marked 'TheHardy Wanlass | 9/10 lb| Palakona Regd Trademark' The serial number onthe but cap is E78447. Anyone out there have an old catalog or book that can date this late 1920's or early 1930's. ------ =_NextPart_001_01BD9875.68484CEA Hardy Casting Rod Gang, grip I'm guessing late 1920's or early 1930's. ------ =_NextPart_001_01BD9875.68484CEA-- from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Mon Jun 15 10:54:52 1998 post.interalpha.net(8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id QAA02529 for ;Mon, 15 Jun 1998 16:57:12+0100 Subject: Re: Sv: Cracked Varnish at Ferrules At 16:37 15/06/98 +0200, you wrote:John Cooper wrote John Just to please an ignorant Dane: Please confirm, that the straight backwrap DO NOT go beyond the end of the ferrule. If so I dont get it. Why doesit work? regards Carsten Don't know exactly why it works. I copied the method from an old Farlowsrod: although even that may have been re-wrapped at some time in thedistantpast. The early step down saves having a large double thread thicknessstepping down to the rod shaft, so it looks less bulky. Also, if doing acomplete over wrap, it's quite difficult to persude the final few turns ofthe second layer to match exactly the first layer of turns. As I said, itseems to work, but it seems a good idea to taper and feather also. That layer of epoxy idea posted earlier sounds excellent. I'm going to trythat. Does anyone have a favourite two-pack that they use? I'm using Gudebrodstandard, which thanks to Sir Darryl (praise his name) works OK. I find ittakes hours to go off properly, although it's not a problem, if the rod'sleft on a turner. But I can only do one rod section per evening. Someonesaid recently that Flexcoat is better. Any advice? Try it. John Cooper (England) from jcole10@juno.com Mon Jun 15 11:30:14 1998 12:27:58 EDT Subject: Re: Thanks to Wayne and Darryl Darryl What page of Wayne's? I cannot find a 7-4 in my book. John Cole On Mon, 15 Jun 1998 03:39:16 EDT SalarFly@aol.com writes: I've posted this before, it's a true story about this taper. My Dad is a poor caster. I've tried and tried to help him improve hiscasting (not that I'm a great caster myself...), but I gave up tryingto help him. I told him to improve his wading skills so he could getwithin 30' of the fish, bacause he would never get his fly to a fishoutside that range. I just happened to pick this taper out of Wayne's book when my Dadrequested that I make him a 7' 4 DT. When it was finished and I testcasted it I was amazed how well it casts. When I gave it to my Dad,I thought I would have to help him for a couple hours to get him tocast to 30' again. He picked up the rod, two false casts, and 50'of line went zinging out first cast. He can get it out in the 65 to 70' range with no problem now. My whole family went fishing once, my wife watched my Dad for awhile, and said "Looks like he's been practicing. His casts are sosmooth now." I told her, "No, it's the rod I made him." She said,"Yeah, right." Oh well, she keeps me honest. This is also the same taper that Jamie Lyle from Sage cast to90' when he tried it out at a flyfishing show in Long Beach CA. Darryl _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Jun 15 13:53:04 1998 Subject: Re: Thanks to Wayne and Darryl In a message dated 6/15/98 9:37:49 AM Pacific Daylight Time,jcole10@juno.comwrites: Darryl What page of Wayne's? I cannot find a 7-4 in my book. John Cole It's on page 225. It's the 7' 0" 4DT.Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Jun 15 13:55:31 1998 Subject: Wayne's Sir D Favorite Taper List Just a little problem using the tapers in Wayne's post. In the 6'3" 3 piece versions of the taper the "hinge"falls right at the ferrule location (50"). Since a ferruleis stiff, this eliminates the hinge. In a rod this short,if you expect to roll cast it, it needs the hinge. Movethe hinge 5 inches closer to the handle and it willbe fine. Stress curves to the rescue - without lookingat the tapers with a stress curve I never would have spotted this. weeks ago is derived from - guess what? Darryl from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Mon Jun 15 14:43:09 1998 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id HAA15994 for ;Tue, 16 Jun 1998 07:42:59+1200 Subject: Re: Hardy Casting Rod Dean , The Hardy Wanless series was started in 1933 and made through to themid1950s. Some of the Wanless 10' models are designated "upstream worming"rods which would suggest they may have a rather soft action as well asillustrating Hardy's commercial rather then purist approach. The numberyouquote would suggest a rod made in 1951. regards Ian K t 10:51 AM 15/06/98 -0500, you wrote:Gang,My parents just returned from an extended trip in England. As agift they brought me a Hardy split bamboo casting. It's marked 'TheHardy Wanlass | 9/10 lb| Palakona Regd Trademark' The serial number onthe but cap is E78447. Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz from DBURRILL@TELEHUB.com Mon Jun 15 14:55:31 1998 Subject: RE: Hardy Casting Rod boundary="---- =_NextPart_001_01BD9897.7F2CE818" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_001_01BD9897.7F2CE818 Thanks Ian!Where did you find this information? -----Original Message-----From: Ian Kearney [SMTP:iank@nelson.planet.org.nz]Sent: Monday, June 15, 1998 12:43 PM Subject: Re: Hardy Casting Rod Dean , The Hardy Wanless series was started in 1933 and made through tothe mid1950s. Some of the Wanless 10' models are designated "upstreamworming "rods which would suggest they may have a rather soft action aswell asillustrating Hardy's commercial rather then purist approach. Thenumber youquote would suggest a rod made in 1951. regards Ian K t 10:51 AM 15/06/98 -0500, you wrote:Gang,My parents just returned from an extended trip inEngland. As agift they brought me a Hardy split bamboo casting. It's marked'TheHardy Wanlass | 9/10 lb| Palakona Regd Trademark' The serialnumber onthe but cap is E78447. Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz ------ =_NextPart_001_01BD9897.7F2CE818 RE: Hardy Casting Rod Thanks Ian! -----Original=Message----- [SMTP:iank@nelson.planet.org.nz] Monday, June 15, 1998 12:43 PM Re: Hardy Casting Rod Dean , The HardyWanless =series was started in 1933 and made through to the mid1950s. Some ofthe =Wanless 10' models are designated "upstream worming"rods whichwould =suggest they may have a rather soft action as well asillustrating =Hardy's commercial rather then purist approach. The number youquote wouldsuggest =a rod made in 1951. regards Ian K =15/06/98 -0500, you wrote: just = Wanlass | = is =E78447. Ian Kearney = =phone 0064 03 5445556104 ChampionRoad = 0064 =03 5440374Richmond New Zealand = =email inak@ts.co.nz ------ =_NextPart_001_01BD9897.7F2CE818-- from jwilcox@netsync.net Mon Jun 15 16:01:01 1998 quartz.netsync.net(8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA16611 for ;Mon, 15 Jun 1998 17:00:53-0400 Subject: leonard 39h guide spacing boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003C_01BD987F.11168900" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01BD987F.11168900 davy, thanks for the information. one problem as i'm new to the nuances =of the archives. is there a special way to search out specific =information? for example, the thomas material you referred to. thanks =again, jim wilcox ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01BD987F.11168900 davy, thanks for the = referred to. thanks again, jim wilcox ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01BD987F.11168900-- from jwilcox@netsync.net Mon Jun 15 17:13:50 1998 quartz.netsync.net(8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA22711 for ;Mon, 15 Jun 1998 18:13:40-0400 Subject: guide spacing boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD9889.3C321AA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD9889.3C321AA0 davy forget half of my reply! i was going through my taper book and =found the thomas info that i had downloaded fron the taper archives. i =had forgotten that the guide spacings were there. but my other question =still stands. is there a way to search the listserve archives to find =specific information/topics that were covered in a particular month? by=the way, the thomas spacings look good. thanks, jim ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD9889.3C321AA0 davy forget half of my reply! iwas = through my taper book and found the thomas info that i had downloaded = archives to find specific information/topics that were covered in a = jim ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD9889.3C321AA0-- from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Jun 15 18:25:00 1998 head.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA11288; Mon, 15 Jun1998 19:25:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Note About Nodeless Wayne That sure sounds like a bit of rodmaking lore to me. Just like that old saying: "He who lives by the node, dies by the node!" Chris On Mon, 15 Jun 1998 01:29:29 -0400, Wayne Cattanach wrote: Gee - I wonder if any of the older noded makers ever got a box of nodes bypony express???????? from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Mon Jun 15 18:43:57 1998 Subject: A Site of interest Guys, Was exploring today and found the Lee Valley Tools has a site. Got some neat stuff on wood planes, metal composition etc. Also mentions TIN process used as a hardening surface. Think H & H use asimilar process on guides. Check it out @ http://www.leevalley.com/woodwork/wood.htm from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Jun 15 18:47:35 1998 head.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA15697; Mon, 15 Jun1998 19:47:24 -0400 boundary="_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.EUMA81138764=_=_=_"Subject: Re: Cracked Varnish at Ferrules --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.EUMA81138764=_=_=_ ChrisActually there is good reason that the nodes are weakest - Peoplehave said it time and again - it is even the "Digger" video. It was not untilJohn Bokstrum showed (actually he was hiding it from me) a cross sectionofa culm cut exactly at dead center of the node that it made sense. It is atthispoint the power fibers are not contagious. In the photo I have attached youcan see the fingers of pulp that goes almost to the enamel. Regards Chris On Sun, 14 Jun 1998 23:50:26 -0800, C.J. Wohlford wrote: Chris,Not really, just that "...the leaf marks or nodes in the bamboo present aproblem. These spotsarethe weakest part of the cane, and two of them should not be placed nextto each other."...hey...wait a minute....are you playing me for a patsy here??? :) Chris "They'll bury me with my nodes on" Wohlford Chris Bogart wrote: ChrisIt is funny when you look back at comments in time - especiallywhen a lotof rodmakers did not share info. The only shame in the statements isthat there is noneof the varnishes still around that would really be great for brushing - Iwould neverrecommend two thick coats either - maybe that is why the varnishcracked. Chris PS - did he have anything nice to say about nodes? On Sun, 14 Jun 1998 12:04:48 -0800, C.J. Wohlford wrote: Chris,I agree. I haven't had any problems with the way I do my ferrulesstations either. I alsofeelthat the varnish I use might have something to do with it. I was justpassing on a littleinfo from an author who has personally known and hung around some veryprominentrodmakers/designers of the past. He also had a few other things to say such as: 1) He doesn't like flaming. Says it causes uneven temperament of thecane.2) Seems to have something negative to say about each type of taperexcept, of course, theparabolic.3) He doesn't like the "dipping" method. Says 5 thin coats of brushed onvarnish provides abetter protection (higher quality) then 2 thick coats dipped. I have to admit I wasn't expecting these type of statements and foundthem kind ofinteresting. Best Regards,Chris Wohlford Chris Bogart wrote: ChrisThink about what is written - it doesn't solve the problem. Iftheferrule is not mounted properly and it would crack the thread - itwill also enhancethe separation between the wrap up to the ferrule also. I don't buythis solution.It treats the symptoms not the cause of the problem. First not all ferrules will have this problem if mountedproperly. My personalrodwhich probably ranks up there with one of the most used and abusedrods onthe list does not have this problem. There are several others outthere that seemto survive this just fine. So I would not take this as a fact of life. I feather my ferrule tabs like Wayne does - but I mount them ontheedges of the flat rather than center (my reasons). I will not get intothe gluecontroversy but I use Devcon 5 ton thick epoxy gel. With a good fit itseemsto work. The thread on this particular rod is 3/0 silk. Regards Chris On Sun, 14 Jun 1998 02:31:50 -0800, C.J. Wohlford wrote: Was reading John Alden Knight's "Field Book of Fresh Water Angling"and hestates the following: "In the wrapping of serrations at the end of the ferrules with aprotective coating of thread, the better practice is to have thewindingstop exactly where the wood meats the metal. If this is not done andthewinding is carried down over the wood, sooner or later the varnish-coatedthread will crack where the wood and ferrule meet, leaving avulnerablespot in the waterproof armor of varnish. This means that moisturecanenter and rot the wood." Best Regards,Chris Wohlford --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.EUMA81138764=_=_=_ 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 --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.EUMA81138764=_=_=_-- from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Jun 15 20:41:36 1998 Subject: Re: Cracked Varnish at Ferrules In a message dated 6/15/98 11:51:52 PM, you wrote: Well, I for one, am glad to hear it. It's bad enough when I catch the flu atthe office. from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Jun 15 21:15:58 1998 head.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id WAA13863; Mon, 15 Jun1998 22:15:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Cracked Varnish at Ferrules TomSometimes I place too much faith in the spell checker and don'tpay attention to the semantics. Oh well - I avoid nodes like the plagueanyway so meaning still applies! Chris On Mon, 15 Jun 1998 21:36:44 EDT, TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Mon Jun 15 23:00:07 1998 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id PAA04042 for ;Tue, 16 Jun 1998 15:59:51+1200 Subject: RE: Hardy Casting Rod Dean , The information came from a book "Fishing Tackle , a collectors guide " byGraham Turner . It was published privately in 1995 , second edition , and is considered the"bible" on Hardy and other British gear . I can send you a fax with the rodtypes and built dates if that is of any interest to you . The book is ratherdifficult to come across but it is well worth while if you have an interestin British reels or rods . regards Iank At 02:55 PM 15/06/98 -0500, you wrote:Thanks Ian!Where did you find this information? -----Original Message-----From: Ian Kearney [SMTP:iank@nelson.planet.org.nz]Sent: Monday, June 15, 1998 12:43 PM Subject: Re: Hardy Casting Rod Dean , The Hardy Wanless series was started in 1933 and made through tothe mid1950s. Some of the Wanless 10' models are designated "upstreamworming "rods which would suggest they may have a rather soft action aswell asillustrating Hardy's commercial rather then purist approach. Thenumber youquote would suggest a rod made in 1951. regards Ian K t 10:51 AM 15/06/98 -0500, you wrote:Gang,My parents just returned from an extended trip inEngland. As agift they brought me a Hardy split bamboo casting. It's marked'TheHardy Wanlass | 9/10 lb| Palakona Regd Trademark' The serialnumber onthe but cap is E78447. Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz RE: Hardy Casting Rod Thanks Ian! -----OriginalMessage----- [SMTP:iank@nelson.planet.org.nz] rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Re: Hardy Casting Rod Dean , The Hardy Wanlessseries wasstarted in 1933 and made through to the mid1950s. Some of theWanless10' models are designated "upstream worming "rods which wouldsuggest theymay have a rather soft action as well asillustrating Hardy'scommercial rather then purist approach. The number youquote would suggest arodmade in 1951. regards Ian K 15/06/98-0500, you wrote: me a 9/10 lb| E78447. Ian Kearney phone0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road 0064 035440374Richmond New Zealand emailinak@ts.co.nz Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz from FLYROD777@aol.com Mon Jun 15 23:38:08 1998 Subject: Grayrock Can anyone tell me if there is a place to shower near the BBQ. Will besacking out in the Van. Mark from flyrod@artistree.com Tue Jun 16 00:38:01 1998 WAA16819 Subject: Re: Cracked Varnish at Ferrules mac-creator="4D4F5353" Chris,Funny, I have a similar culm in my shop that was cut right at the node andI have studied itmanytimes. But, I'll tell you something, the scientist in me understands thatthere is a problem andyoumaybe right while the artist in me says you don't always truly understandwhat mother nature isup to.At this point in my life I know that: 1) I hate glues - no matter how "proven" they may be. It's been a delicatebalance that I darenotupset. The less glue in my rod the better for me. 2) I have come to appreciate the character that a node configuration givesmy rods. It's a topicofconversation to people who don't fish or build bamboo rods. In other words,if you point out thenodesto your average person they seem to be able to more easily identify that,yes, this once was apieceof bamboo. However impractical or superficial this may be it does seem tocreate a bridge. Hell,thismight sound crazy but I have actually run into people who think they arefishing an oldfiberglass rodwhen they're really fishing an old bamboo rod. I just point out the nodesand watch their eyeslightup. I swear I am not making this up. It has been said that some of the greatest artists of history knew thattheir art must be flawedinsome way. The human eye, for lack of a better word, cannot tolerateperfection. This might soundlikea strange comment but it really is a truth that works on a subconsciouslevel. Sorry for the philosophical ramblings. I have decided to supress thescientist for tonight. Chris Wohlford Chris Bogart wrote: ChrisActually there is good reason that the nodes are weakest - Peoplehave said it time and again - it is even the "Digger" video. It was notuntilJohn Bokstrum showed (actually he was hiding it from me) a crosssection ofa culm cut exactly at dead center of the node that it made sense. It is atthispoint the power fibers are not contagious. In the photo I have attachedyoucan see the fingers of pulp that goes almost to the enamel. Regards Chris from DBURRILL@TELEHUB.com Tue Jun 16 09:14:04 1998 Subject: RE: Hardy Casting Rod boundary="---- =_NextPart_001_01BD9930.F8BAF988" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_001_01BD9930.F8BAF988 Thanks again Ian. I'll just have to find a copy of that book! -----Original Message-----From: Ian Kearney [SMTP:iank@nelson.planet.org.nz]Sent: Monday, June 15, 1998 9:00 PM Subject: RE: Hardy Casting Rod Dean , The information came from a book "Fishing Tackle , a collectorsguide " byGraham Turner . It was published privately in 1995 , second edition , and isconsidered the"bible" on Hardy and other British gear . I can send you a faxwith the rodtypes and built dates if that is of any interest to you . Thebook is ratherdifficult to come across but it is well worth while if you havean interestin British reels or rods . regards Iank At 02:55 PM 15/06/98 -0500, you wrote:Thanks Ian!Where did you find this information? -----Original Message-----From: Ian Kearney [SMTP:iank@nelson.planet.org.nz]Sent: Monday, June 15, 1998 12:43 PM Subject: Re: Hardy Casting Rod Dean , The Hardy Wanless series was started in 1933 and madethrough tothe mid1950s. Some of the Wanless 10' models are designated"upstreamworming "rods which would suggest they may have a rather softaction aswell asillustrating Hardy's commercial rather then puristapproach. Thenumber youquote would suggest a rod made in 1951. regards Ian K t 10:51 AM 15/06/98 -0500, you wrote:Gang,My parents just returned from an extended tripinEngland. As agift they brought me a Hardy split bamboo casting.It's marked'TheHardy Wanlass | 9/10 lb| Palakona Regd Trademark' Theserialnumber onthe but cap is E78447. Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz RE: Hardy Casting Rod Thanks Ian! -----OriginalMessage----- [SMTP:iank@nelson.planet.org.nz] Monday, June 15, 1998 12:43 PM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Re: Hardy Casting Rod Dean , The Hardy Wanlessseries wasstarted in 1933 and made through to the mid1950s. Some ofthe Wanless10' models are designated "upstream worming "rods which wouldsuggest theymay have a rather soft action as well asillustratingHardy'scommercial rather then purist approach. The number youquote wouldsuggest a rodmade in 1951. regards Ian K 15/06/98-0500, you wrote: just brought me a Wanlass| 9/10 lb| is E78447. Ian Kearney 0064 03 5445556104 ChampionRoad 5440374Richmond New Zealand inak@ts.co.nz Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz ------ =_NextPart_001_01BD9930.F8BAF988 RE: Hardy Casting Rod to find a copy of that book! -----Original=Message----- [SMTP:iank@nelson.planet.org.nz] Monday, June 15, 1998 9:00 PM RE: Hardy Casting Rod Dean , The informationcame = from a book "Fishing Tackle , a collectors guide " byGraham Turner .= It was published=privately in 1995 , second edition , and is considered the"bible" =on Hardy and other British gear . I can send you a fax with the =rodtypes and built=dates if that is of any interest to you . The book is ratherdifficult tocome =across but it is well worth while if you have an interestin British reelsor =rods . regards Iank At 02:55 PM =15/06/98 -0500, you wrote: Ian! =find this information? =Message----- [SMTP:iank@nelson.planet.org.nz] rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Re: Hardy Casting Rod Wanless series was started in 1933 and made through to mid of =the Wanless 10' models are designated "upstream " soft action as as Hardy's commercial rather then purist approach. The you suggest a rod made in 1951. =AM 15/06/98 -0500, you wrote: parents =just returned from an extended trip in As a = on cap =is E78447. 03 =5445556 = 5440374 inak@ts.co.nz HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Serverversion = p;nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=3D2 infor= Kearney 12:43 = <FONTSIZE=3D2 = <FONTSIZE=3D2 = wasstarted in 1933and = Wanless10' models are = theymay have arather = commercialrather = made in = 15/06/98-0500, you = SIZE=3D2 SIZE=3D2 amp;nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; My parents justreturned froman = aHardy splitbamboo = lb|Palakona Regd = E78447. SIZE=3D2 &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; =&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =phone0064 03 = &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Fax&nbsp;&nbsp; 006403 &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; =&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =email Ian Kearney = =phone 0064 03 5445556104 ChampionRoad = 0064 =03 5440374Richmond New Zealand = =email inak@ts.co.nz ------ =_NextPart_001_01BD9930.F8BAF988-- from jart@epix.net Tue Jun 16 12:03:37 1998 Subject: Hate to be a _________ but I'm strictly a lurker on this list. I think I have contributedtwice in four years to any discussion. It is increasingly clear that there are more people with less understanding of the internet participating here and in other groups. Would everyone please learn how to use their mailer/browser/editor.Don't want to single you out particularly Dean, but 24,380 bytesto say: "Thanks again Ian. I'll just have to find a copy of that book!" is more than I or anyone else should have to take. There are people, including myself (at least in the Unix world) thatwill be glad to help those of you that are willing to learn. TLs-Jack Tuckerjart@epix.net from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Jun 16 13:49:50 1998 Subject: Re: darryl's c-clamp splitting method In a message dated 6/15/98 1:55:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time,jwilcox@netsync.net writes: guys, i was browsing through the archives and came across brian creek's reference to darryl's c-clamp splitting method. does anyone knowexactly which month of the archives i should go to to read about darryl'smethod? Since no one has answered this question, I guess I'll have tojump in. This discussion started with someone trying to split a culm. Ican regularly split the top half of a culm to 32 strips. To somethis is a big deal, to others it's routine. For the guys who cansplit to 32, it seems we all arrive at the same result from different methods. My method is simple. A split will go towards the side of a stripthat is stretched, away from the side that is compressed. I usethe handles of two upsidedown C- clamps to bend the unsplit section of a strip I am working on in the appropriate direction to walk thesplit in the direction I want it to go. To propagate the split I holdone side in one hand, the other side in the other hand and pushmy thumbs against each other. When I start splitting the thinnerstrips, they are so flexible I no longer need the C-clamp handlesto bend the strip. I just hold it in my left hand and use my thumband fingers of my right hand to lever the split apart. This is one of those things that is difficult to explain in words, but simple if you saw it done. Darryl from rclarke@eou.edu Tue Jun 16 14:05:56 1998 Subject: Re: Hate to be a _________ but I also hate to be a _______but, please cut the guy some slack.---------- From: Jack Tucker Subject: Hate to be a _________ butDate: Tuesday, June 16, 1998 10:03 AMWould everyone please learn how to use their mailer/browser/editor.Don't want to single you out particularly Dean, but 24,380 bytesto say: Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu from anglport@con2.com Tue Jun 16 15:21:28 1998 Subject: Re: darryl's c-clamp splitting method This is one of those things that is difficult to explain in words, but simple if you saw it done. Darryl Darryl,So ...when can we expect the video?Art from jwilcox@netsync.net Tue Jun 16 15:31:39 1998 quartz.netsync.net(8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA13093 for ;Tue, 16 Jun 1998 16:31:36-0400 Subject: leonard tapers boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0020_01BD9944.24ED4FC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BD9944.24ED4FC0 mark, i don't have the 38l taper. here's what i do have though. leonard 39dh 7'6" 4wt. measured over varnish deduct .004tip: 0-.066, 5- .078, 10-.097, 15-.110, 20-.124, 25-.135, 30-.143, =35-.162, 40-.178, 45- .192butt: 0-.202, 5-.213, 10-.228, 15-.238, 20-.250, 25-.256, 30-.264, =35-.350, 40-.350, 45-.350 leonard 39l 7'6" 4wt. measured over varnish deduct .004tip: 0-.062, 5-.082, 10-.096, 15-.108, 20-.128, 25-.136, 30-.146, =35-.164, 40-.182, 45- .190butt: 0-.200, 5-.210, 10-.230, 15-.246, 20-.258, 25-.268, 30-.280, =35-.362, 40-.380, 45-.380 maybe you can use these. if not, hopefully someone else out on the list =has the tapers. i'd be interested as well. ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BD9944.24ED4FC0 though. leonard = 4wt. measured over varnish deduct .004tip: = 45-.192butt:= 45-.350 leonard = 4wt. measured over varnish deduct .004tip: = 45-.190butt:= 45-.380 maybe you = ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BD9944.24ED4FC0-- from WayneCatt@aol.com Tue Jun 16 16:04:16 1998 Subject: Re: Grayrock Mark -The shower thing can be worked out - bring towel Wayne from WayneCatt@aol.com Tue Jun 16 17:24:25 1998 Subject: Payne Thread # I have forgotten the Belding # for the payne thread - can some one help Wayne from Domenic1@ix.netcom.com Tue Jun 16 17:45:50 1998 ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Payne Thread # Wayne,It is Belding Corticelli #5115.Domenic Croce-----Original Message----- Subject: Payne Thread # I have forgotten the Belding # for the payne thread - can some one help Wayne from FLYROD777@aol.com Tue Jun 16 17:58:57 1998 Subject: Re: Grayrock Thanks Wayne Bring the towel Aye, Aye Mark from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Jun 16 18:07:08 1998 head.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA08385; Tue, 16 Jun1998 19:07:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Cracked Varnish at Ferrules ChrisThe debate can go on for a long time as to which method has the bestmerits. I was only joking about John Bokstrom hiding it from me - He is anastutestudent of this craft and would never do such a thing. He would kid meabout it. This is part of the give and take on a number of issues - from glues tovarnishes to tapers and yes - nodes. We can kid each other and joke about these things - afterall it isonly rodmaking. We even have jack pine savages doing it now.I got into nodeless because I started out making rods that would castveryshort and found that I got a smoothness and power in the rods by usingnodelessconstruction techniques vice nodes. I was at one end of the spectrumwhere I couldsee the difference. I have since made longer rods nodeless and found I canget very good results with same methods. However other people with thosedreadednodes have gotten excellent results. But the point of the cross section isthat it givesfood for thought about what we do and why. The simple question is at whatpointdoes it make a difference - if at all and is the problem theoretical orreal?Related to the issue were the debates about node staggering patterns- dothey affect the action - some of the classic rod makers believe so. Haven'tseen much debate on the list about this. from time to time I try to throw atopic out justto see if I get some rises out of the group to stir up the debate and getsome thought on the subject. This was one of those times. Regards Chris On Mon, 15 Jun 1998 22:43:19 -0800, C.J. Wohlford wrote: Chris,Funny, I have a similar culm in my shop that was cut right at the node andI have studied itmanytimes. But, I'll tell you something, the scientist in me understands thatthere is a problemand youmaybe right while the artist in me says you don't always truly understandwhat mother nature isup to.At this point in my life I know that: 1) I hate glues - no matter how "proven" they may be. It's been a delicatebalance that I darenotupset. The less glue in my rod the better for me. 2) I have come to appreciate the character that a node configurationgives my rods. It's atopic ofconversation to people who don't fish or build bamboo rods. In otherwords, if you point outthe nodesto your average person they seem to be able to more easily identify that,yes, this once was apieceof bamboo. However impractical or superficial this may be it does seemto create a bridge.Hell, thismight sound crazy but I have actually run into people who think they arefishing an oldfiberglass rodwhen they're really fishing an old bamboo rod. I just point out the nodesand watch their eyeslightup. I swear I am not making this up. It has been said that some of the greatest artists of history knew thattheir art must beflawed insome way. The human eye, for lack of a better word, cannot tolerateperfection. This mightsound likea strange comment but it really is a truth that works on a subconsciouslevel. Sorry for the philosophical ramblings. I have decided to supress thescientist for tonight. Chris Wohlford Chris Bogart wrote: ChrisActually there is good reason that the nodes are weakest - Peoplehave said it time and again - it is even the "Digger" video. It was notuntilJohn Bokstrum showed (actually he was hiding it from me) a crosssection ofa culm cut exactly at dead center of the node that it made sense. It is atthispoint the power fibers are not contagious. In the photo I have attachedyoucan see the fingers of pulp that goes almost to the enamel. Regards Chris from CALucker@aol.com Tue Jun 16 18:27:46 1998 Subject: Re: Payne Thread # Belding Corticelli 5115 Java Beige size 6/0. The custom silk people are prepared to make a custom order of it if thereisany interest. If any of you in the first custoj order are listening, I am about to mail the25 three ounce/8,800 yard cones of the 6/0 Antique Gold 3175 customsilk orderto the first 25 that expressed interest. The silk is on its way from thefactory. No one will be asked to pay the $20 (actual cost) for their 8,800 yards ofsilk unless they are completely satisfied with what they receive. It's thissimple: You don't like it for any reason, you throw it away, keep it, send itback to me -- anything you want to do, just don't pay me for it. I don'twantanyone to pay for something they don't like. Chris Lucker from rcurry@top.monad.net Tue Jun 16 18:43:16 1998 Subject: Re: Cracked Varnish at Ferrules Chris Bogart wrote:Related to the issue were the debates about node staggeringpatterns - dothey affect the action - some of the classic rod makers believe so.Haven't seenmuch debate on the list about this. from time to time I try to throw atopic out justto see if I get some rises out of the group to stir up the debate and getsomethought on the subject. This was one of those times. Chris,Are you implying that you never do any staggering because you'renodeless? We'll see... after Spike's!But it is an interesting subject. I think nodes are just one of thevariables. I have rods that are spiral, some are 2/2, some 3/3, and somerandom. But they were all made with care and attention to the material.I would think that poorly selected strips, some low on power fiber, somemore robust, would be a more important factor in jumps.Best regards,Reed from wgray@uidaho.edu Tue Jun 16 18:48:25 1998 QAA24785 Subject: Garrison/Carmichael Book FYI I was in Chicago last week and in my free time walked arounddowntown. There is an Orvis shop on Ontario just about two doors offNorth Michigan. In the back they had 3 copies of Garrison &Carmichael's book. These were in a slip case. Two were still shrinkwrapped at $75.I just bought a used one in VG condition for $83. from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Jun 16 19:36:10 1998 head.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id UAA25293; Tue, 16 Jun1998 20:36:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Cracked Varnish at Ferrules Reed That is a leading question - but I do stagger the splices and fromSpikes! - Are you buying the first round or two - I'll get the Spike Burgersand wedges. ChrisOn Tue, 16 Jun 1998 19:35:48 -0400, Reed F. Curry wrote: Chris Bogart wrote:Related to the issue were the debates about node staggeringpatterns - dothey affect the action - some of the classic rod makers believe so.Haven't seenmuch debate on the list about this. from time to time I try to throw atopic out justto see if I get some rises out of the group to stir up the debate and getsomethought on the subject. This was one of those times. Chris,Are you implying that you never do any staggering because you'renodeless? We'll see... after Spike's!But it is an interesting subject. I think nodes are just one of thevariables. I have rods that are spiral, some are 2/2, some 3/3, and somerandom. But they were all made with care and attention to the material.I would think that poorly selected strips, some low on power fiber, somemore robust, would be a more important factor in jumps.Best regards,Reed from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Jun 16 19:39:27 1998 head.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id UAA25901; Tue, 16 Jun1998 20:39:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Cracked Varnish at Ferrules ReedOn the less serious subject of node staggering - some took it veryseriously and felt it made a difference. We all have our superstitions or beliefs. Chris On Tue, 16 Jun 1998 19:35:48 -0400, Reed F. Curry wrote: Chris Bogart wrote:Related to the issue were the debates about node staggeringpatterns - dothey affect the action - some of the classic rod makers believe so.Haven't seenmuch debate on the list about this. from time to time I try to throw atopic out justto see if I get some rises out of the group to stir up the debate and getsomethought on the subject. This was one of those times. Chris,Are you implying that you never do any staggering because you'renodeless? We'll see... after Spike's!But it is an interesting subject. I think nodes are just one of thevariables. I have rods that are spiral, some are 2/2, some 3/3, and somerandom. But they were all made with care and attention to the material.I would think that poorly selected strips, some low on power fiber, somemore robust, would be a more important factor in jumps.Best regards,Reed from flyrod@artistree.com Tue Jun 16 19:53:33 1998 RAA25873 Subject: Re: Cracked Varnish at Ferrules mac-creator="4D4F5353" Chris,It was an enjoyable discussion.:) Best Regards,Chris Wohlford Chris Bogart wrote: ChrisThe debate can go on for a long time as to which method has thebestmerits. I was only joking about John Bokstrom hiding it from me - He isan astutestudent of this craft and would never do such a thing. He would kid meabout it. Thisis part of the give and take on a number of issues - from glues tovarnishes to tapersand yes - nodes. We can kid each other and joke about these things -after all it isonly rodmaking. We even have jack pine savages doing it now.I got into nodeless because I started out making rods that wouldcast veryshort and found that I got a smoothness and power in the rods by usingnodelessconstruction techniques vice nodes. I was at one end of the spectrumwhere I couldsee the difference. I have since made longer rods nodeless and found Ican getvery good results with same methods. However other people with thosedreadednodes have gotten excellent results. But the point of the cross section isthat it givesfood for thought about what we do and why. The simple question is atwhat pointdoes it make a difference - if at all and is the problem theoretical orreal?Related to the issue were the debates about node staggeringpatterns - dothey affect the action - some of the classic rod makers believe so.Haven't seenmuch debate on the list about this. from time to time I try to throw atopic out justto see if I get some rises out of the group to stir up the debate and getsomethought on the subject. This was one of those times. Regards Chris from jmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca Tue Jun 16 20:11:26 1998 16 Jun 98 21:11:25 -0500 0500 16 Jun 98 21:10:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Payne Thread # Chris Who's is getting the thread. I know that I had expressed interest butYou never told me if I was going to get some or not Please reply and I amsorry for using the band width to all others. You can contact me off listatjmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca thanksJohn McKinnon-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Payne Thread # Belding Corticelli 5115 Java Beige size 6/0. The custom silk people are prepared to make a custom order of it if thereisany interest. If any of you in the first custoj order are listening, I am about to mailthe25 three ounce/8,800 yard cones of the 6/0 Antique Gold 3175 customsilkorderto the first 25 that expressed interest. The silk is on its way from thefactory. No one will be asked to pay the $20 (actual cost) for their 8,800 yards ofsilk unless they are completely satisfied with what they receive. It'sthissimple: You don't like it for any reason, you throw it away, keep it, senditback to me -- anything you want to do, just don't pay me for it. I don'twantanyone to pay for something they don't like. Chris Lucker from triadvertising@sprintmail.com Tue Jun 16 20:41:08 1998 [168.191.28.141] (may beforged)) Subject: Re: Cracked Varnish at Ferrules type="54455854"; This is a particularly interesting thread. The discussion of nodesalways seems to bring forth some very thought provoking comments.Fellows, may I ask a question?: I know that Garrison said that "nodesare Job's gift to the rodmaker" -- and we all can tell stories about ourvaried encounters with the 'pesky' critters, but has anyone been able toshow that nodes are truly the 'weak' spots in a bamboo spline? Despite the 'power fiber' theories, in my own experience, I've foundthat nodes appear to be the toughest part of the bamboo spline -- anotion which may rune counter to most accepted theories. Prove it toyourself. Take a bamboo spline into your two hands -- bend the splineinto a radical horseshoe shape and keep applying pressure until itbegins to splinter -- where does it break? At a node? No. It neverbreaks at a node. Rather, it splinters first in the internodal material-- i.e. between the nodes! What does this prove? I'm not sure ... but,it tells me that nodes are very hard and tough. So tough, in fact,they've been dulling plane blades for many years! Nothing against the 'nodeless contingent' out there -- I admire all ofyou for the extra work and beautiful rods you produce -- but, I've neverfound nodes to much of a problem for me. A scary sharp blade and a goodnode staggering method seems to address the 'problem' of pesky nodesadequately. Nodes represent just one more hurdle to cross in the construction of acane rod. We all develop our own way of dealing with them. But, onething for sure they do make for some interesting conversation -- thanks Joe Loverti Loverti Custom Cane Fly Rodshttp://www.triadvertising.com/canerods from channer@hubwest.com Tue Jun 16 21:04:16 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A48AB91014E; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 20:06:02 MDT Subject: Re: Payne Thread # At 07:27 PM 6/16/98 EDT, you wrote:Belding Corticelli 5115 Java Beige size 6/0. The custom silk people are prepared to make a custom order of it if thereisany interest. If any of you in the first custoj order are listening, I am about to mailthe25 three ounce/8,800 yard cones of the 6/0 Antique Gold 3175 customsilkorderto the first 25 that expressed interest. The silk is on its way from thefactory. No one will be asked to pay the $20 (actual cost) for their 8,800 yards ofsilk unless they are completely satisfied with what they receive. It'sthissimple: You don't like it for any reason, you throw it away, keep it,send itback to me -- anything you want to do, just don't pay me for it. I don'twantanyone to pay for something they don't like. Chris Lucker Chris;Please explain to me what it is about rodmaking that attracts such honestpeople. I have ordered things and had the people tell me "We'll send outthe order right away, send us a check when you get to it". The way the restof the world operates you would think everyone in the world was a rip- offartist. It is refreshing not to be treated like a potential criminal.John Channer from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Jun 16 21:05:35 1998 head.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id WAA12740; Tue, 16 Jun1998 22:05:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Cracked Varnish at Ferrules JoeWhat is your "good node staggering method" and why - saycompared to other "not so good" methods. This is the discussionwe would like to engage people into. Chris On Tue, 16 Jun 1998 21:46:43 -0500, Joe Loverti wrote: This is a particularly interesting thread. The discussion of nodesalways seems to bring forth some very thought provoking comments.Fellows, may I ask a question?: I know that Garrison said that "nodesare Job's gift to the rodmaker" -- and we all can tell stories about ourvaried encounters with the 'pesky' critters, but has anyone been able toshow that nodes are truly the 'weak' spots in a bamboo spline? Despite the 'power fiber' theories, in my own experience, I've foundthat nodes appear to be the toughest part of the bamboo spline -- anotion which may rune counter to most accepted theories. Prove it toyourself. Take a bamboo spline into your two hands -- bend the splineinto a radical horseshoe shape and keep applying pressure until itbegins to splinter -- where does it break? At a node? No. It neverbreaks at a node. Rather, it splinters first in the internodal material-- i.e. between the nodes! What does this prove? I'm not sure ... but,it tells me that nodes are very hard and tough. So tough, in fact,they've been dulling plane blades for many years! Nothing against the 'nodeless contingent' out there -- I admire all ofyou for the extra work and beautiful rods you produce -- but, I've neverfound nodes to much of a problem for me. A scary sharp blade and a goodnode staggering method seems to address the 'problem' of pesky nodesadequately. Nodes represent just one more hurdle to cross in the construction of acane rod. We all develop our own way of dealing with them. But, onething for sure they do make for some interesting conversation -- thanks Joe Loverti Loverti Custom Cane Fly Rodshttp://www.triadvertising.com/canerods from WayneCatt@aol.com Tue Jun 16 21:14:32 1998 Subject: The Splitting of the Culm An idea that just got talked about in a phone conversation is that at theRoadKill Cookout at Grayrock on friday night that there would be theCeremonial Splitting of the Culm. The thought is that each and everyonepresent could take a swings at splitting the culm of bamboo that is goingtobe used for next year's rod. It has always been a concern that all wantingtocould be a part of the Makers Rod project. Although the thought of havingfolks guzzling down Biondo's and Fairchild's micro brews and then bringingoutsharp knives might prove to be interesting. from jart@epix.net Tue Jun 16 21:46:05 1998 Subject: I hate to be .. apology I apologize for my boorish outburst to the list earliertoday. Dean and I exchanged some mail off line (where I should haveconducted my exchange in the first place). I apologized to himas well. I was not having the best of days and I must say that there are times where the style over substance natureof communications begins to wear on me. At any rate, I intend to crawl back under my rock for anothercouple of years and say nothing. If that offends any of youthen Mike can ask me to leave or he can kick me off thelist. TLs-Jack Tuckerjart@epix.net from triadvertising@sprintmail.com Tue Jun 16 22:24:43 1998 [168.191.29.59] (may beforged)) Subject: Re: Cracked Varnish at Ferrules type="54455854"; Chris Bogart wrote: JoeWhat is your "good node staggering method" and why - saycompared to other "not so good" methods. This is the discussionwe would like to engage people into. Chris Hey Chris, thanks for the question -- not sure I have a good answer.Let's just say any staggering system that serves to distribute the nodesequally around the rod blank and also keeps nodes from 'touching' eachother on adjacent splines may be considered a 'good' system in constrastto 'no' system at all. I like Garrison's 1,5,3,6,2,4 system -- there'sjust something about the 'firing order of pistons' that appealed to meas a novice. But I've used 2x2x2 and 3x3x3 with equal results as near asI could tell. Let's here from others! Joe Loverti Custom Cane Flyrodshttp://www.triadvertising.com/canerods from Nodewrrior@aol.com Tue Jun 16 22:51:09 1998 Subject: Re: Node Staggering Seems to be no advantage between 3X3 or 2X2X2 that I've been able toascertain. I like doing 3X3 when I do a rod with golden nodes for aestheticreasons, then with (somewhat) even toned nodes 2X2X2. Anybody know theformula told mehe never sees a crooked one... Rob Hoffhines from flyfisher@nextdim.com Tue Jun 16 22:53:24 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id ABF01E3014C; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 20:45:52 PDT Subject: Re: Cracked Varnish at Ferrules I take into consideration the lenghth of rod and the distance betweennodesto decide the pattern of staggering the nodes.Dell Coppock,"IN THE GREAT NORTHWEST"http://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail flyfisher@nextdim.com- ----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Cracked Varnish at Ferrules Chris Bogart wrote: JoeWhat is your "good node staggering method" and why - saycompared to other "not so good" methods. This is the discussionwe would like to engage people into. Chris Hey Chris, thanks for the question -- not sure I have a good answer.Let's just say any staggering system that serves to distribute the nodesequally around the rod blank and also keeps nodes from 'touching' eachother on adjacent splines may be considered a 'good' system in constrastto 'no' system at all. I like Garrison's 1,5,3,6,2,4 system -- there'sjust something about the 'firing order of pistons' that appealed to meas a novice. But I've used 2x2x2 and 3x3x3 with equal results as near asI could tell. Let's here from others! Joe Loverti Custom Cane Flyrodshttp://www.triadvertising.com/canerods from jfoster@gte.net Tue Jun 16 22:57:29 1998 Subject: Re: Hate to be a _________ but mac-creator="4D4F5353" thanks jack jerry from JorgeCarcao@myna.com Tue Jun 16 23:17:12 1998 mail.myna.com(Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0400 Subject: Re: Payne Thread # Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 19:27:09 EDT From: CALucker@aol.com Subject: Re: Payne Thread # Belding Corticelli 5115 Java Beige size 6/0. The custom silk people are prepared to make a custom order of it ifthere isany interest. If any of you in the first custoj order are listening, I am about to mailthe25 three ounce/8,800 yard cones of the 6/0 Antique Gold 3175 customsilk orderto the first 25 that expressed interest. The silk is on its way from thefactory. No one will be asked to pay the $20 (actual cost) for their 8,800 yards ofsilk unless they are completely satisfied with what they receive. It'sthissimple: You don't like it for any reason, you throw it away, keep it, senditback to me -- anything you want to do, just don't pay me for it. I don'twantanyone to pay for something they don't like. Chris Lucker Hi Chris, Don't know if I made the cut for the first 25, please let me know if its not too much trouble. Jorge from WayneCatt@aol.com Tue Jun 16 23:21:35 1998 Subject: Re: Cracked Varnish at Ferrules In a message dated 98-06-16 23:27:26 EDT, you write: Joe - I hope that you will take the following comment in the good sense ofhumorthat it is intended - the 3x3x3 node staggerring must make for aninterestingrod. When you and Paula coming up fishing again? Wayne from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Jun 17 02:06:25 1998 Subject: Staggering (Was:Cracked Varnish at Ferrules) In a message dated 6/16/98 8:27:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time,triadvertising@sprintmail.com writes: But I've used 2x2x2 and 3x3x3 with equal results as near asI could tell. Let's here from others! Let's get our nomenclature straight first! There are six strips ina typical rod, so it's 2x2x2 or 3x3 (adds up to six). Sorry, don'tknow about staggering a five strip rod, but if you allow me to guess,a 2x2x1 ??? A quad would be 2x2 ??? Darryl from jwilcox@netsync.net Wed Jun 17 07:46:12 1998 quartz.netsync.net(8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA07894 for ;Wed, 17 Jun 1998 08:46:10-0400 Subject: duracane 806 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01BD99CC.479A13E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BD99CC.479A13E0 mark, i own a duracane 806, but mine is the three piece version. i =have measured the rod. if you would like the taper, i'd be glad to pass =it along. i'm almost ready to wrap the 39dh. i found some more guide =spacings. the varnish has to cure just a bit more. i'll let you know =how it casts. i'll keep your taper offer in mind if i like this =leonard. i do like the 806. it's a smooth and powerful rod. jim ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BD99CC.479A13E0 = ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BD99CC.479A13E0-- from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Jun 17 08:00:16 1998 Subject: Re: Payne Thread # RO>Belding Corticelli 5115 Java Beige size 6/0. RO>The custom silk people are prepared to make a custom order of it ifthere isRO>any interest. RO>If any of you in the first custoj order are listening, I am about to mailthRO>25 three ounce/8,800 yard cones of the 6/0 Antique Gold 3175 customsilk ordRO>to the first 25 that expressed interest. The silk is on its way from theRO>factory. RO>No one will be asked to pay the $20 (actual cost) for their 8,800 yardsofRO>silk unless they are completely satisfied with what they receive. It'sthisRO>simple: You don't like it for any reason, you throw it away, keep it,sendRO>back to me -- anything you want to do, just don't pay me for it. I don'twaRO>anyone to pay for something they don't like. RO>Chris Lucker Chris, I don't know if I'm on the short list or not. If not and any return thethread to you - I'd still be interested. Don Burns PS - On a much needed vacation 6-18/6-28 from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Jun 17 09:07:10 1998 Wed, 17 Jun 1998 22:06:59 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Payne Thread # RO>No one will be asked to pay the $20 (actual cost) for their 8,800yards ofRO>silk unless they are completely satisfied with what they receive. It's thisRO>simple: You don't like it for any reason, you throw it away, keep it,sendRO>back to me -- anything you want to do, just don't pay me for it. Idon't waRO>anyone to pay for something they don't like. RO>Chris Lucker Chris, I've gotta say that is one hell of a nice thing to do. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Jun 17 11:11:05 1998 Subject: Re: I hate to be .. apology Jack, no need to crawl under rock. This is a great forum, please post as much as you would like to. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Jack Tucker Subject: I hate to be .. apologyDate: Tuesday, June 16, 1998 7:46 PM I apologize for my boorish outburst to the list earliertoday. from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Wed Jun 17 11:49:58 1998Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net with ESMTP id +0000 Subject: Honest people (Was Re: Payne Thread #) I like that too (& experienced with bamboo rod owners, too, when I boughtaLeonard 39 I found on the internet...we "simul-shipped", him the rod to meandme the check to him). It's great not being constantly wary and suspicious! George Bourke---------- Chris;Please explain to me what it is about rodmaking that attracts suchhonestpeople. I have ordered things and had the people tell me "We'll send outthe order right away, send us a check when you get to it". The way therestof the world operates you would think everyone in the world was a rip-offartist. It is refreshing not to be treated like a potential criminal.John Channer from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Wed Jun 17 12:04:08 1998 with ESMTP id +0000 Subject: Re: I hate to be .. apology -- a side note In that some of these threads get rather long and sometimes mutatewithoutthe subject line changing, I actually APPRECIATE having the text thatpromptedthe response included to put things in context...otherwise many of thepostingswould be very ambiguous. BTW--I hope you do continue to "jump in" and contribute...it doesn't hurtto hashout rodbuilding or listserver procedures. George Bourke---------- From: Jack Tucker Subject: I hate to be .. apologyDate: Tuesday, June 16, 1998 7:46 PM I apologize for my boorish outburst to the list earliertoday. from CALucker@aol.com Wed Jun 17 12:25:08 1998 Subject: Re: Payne Thread # You made the first cut, but I need to make sure that I get 26 perfectspoolsbefore I start asking for addresses. orderedonly five pounds. That means there is extra silk for a second customorder. Chris. from CALucker@aol.com Wed Jun 17 12:33:14 1998 Subject: Re: Payne Thread # I am sure you are going to get silk on the first go around. To be honestwithyou, I have not shecked my request dates/times yet. I am waiting until Igetthe silk from the factory and am forced to actually do my duty. ratherthan the five pounds I ordered. I only fronted the $500 for the five pounds,but there is a lot more of this stuff available on seven one pound spools.The factory may respool the stuff anyway folks want for future orders. Youcan get one ounce, three ounce, six ounce, one pound -- whatever. By wayofinformation, the company tells me that a three ounce spool has 8800 yardsof6/0. My calculations tell be that is enough to wrap around 175 averagerods. Chris from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed Jun 17 12:39:28 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.1);Wed, 17Jun 1998 13:42:05 -0400 Subject: Grayrock I anyone from the Washington, VA, MD area planning on going up? If so how and is there any space to tag along and pitch in. Something about driving by myself doesn't appeal to me! Take care, Jon Lintvet8602 Wild Olive StreetPotomac, MD 20854(800) 836-7558(301) 340-0194 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Wed Jun 17 12:40:29 1998 (may be forged)) Subject: Re: I hate to be .. apology -- a side note George, I'm with you. I like some of the thread left with the newmessage to add continuity. Several times I have been bumped off of thelist. Once while out of time for several days. The repeated messagesallowed me to stay up to date with the threads without having to wait bother to me. Dick Fuhrman from r.schiller@worldnet.att.net Wed Jun 17 12:47:21 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Radio Rod Does anyone know of a rod called "Radio"? A friend is repairing one and asked me to check out its origin andapproximate age etc. Thanks Dick from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Wed Jun 17 12:47:46 1998 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: blackening brass ferrules Dear friends! Any ideas/experience for blackening brass ferrules? Thanks Stefan-- S. Grau`s atelier edelweissGespliesste Angelruten/Split Cane RodsSwiss Flyfishing Schoolhttp://www.BuchLang.com/~grau Adresse:Brunnadernstr. 11 CH - 3006 BerneTel: ++41 (0) 31 352 42 88 ab 19.00/ from 7.PME-Mail: gespliesst@bluewin.ch from sniderja@email.uc.edu Wed Jun 17 12:56:33 1998 Subject: thread color for flame (burnt?)darkened cane I know this is a rather stupid question, up front. For the wraps for myfirst couple of rods I used nylon of various colors and it worked well fromthe standpoint of good color. However, you all have me convinced that forbamboo I should be using silk thread. So for a test, I ordered assortedcolors (copper, beige, tan, brown, chestnut brown, gold, antique gold, red,black, white, etc.) of 3/0 silk from Anglers Workshop. Using no colorpreserver, these colors still look rather well on lightly flamed(honey-colored) bamboo (although not even CLOSE to the original colors ofcourse), and I certainly have my preferences for the colors that I like.However, when testing these colors on darkly flamed bamboo, only onecoloreven remotely looks good--a beige that turns a deep chestnut whenvarnished. The copper is not bad--a rather reddish brown. Both golds andthe tan turn out to be a rather uninteresting sickly neutral color. The redfares little better--almost a dark brown. There seems to be no way that acontrasting color, or tipping, can be used because there IS no contrast!And you folks have me convinced that I shouldn't use color preserver onsilk.I am curious as to what colors, treatments, etc. many of you folks use ondarkly flamed cane?Thanks in advance for any input.Jerry Snider from rcurry@top.monad.net Wed Jun 17 13:13:13 1998 Subject: Re: thread color for flame (burnt?)darkened cane Jerry,Tom Smithwick convinced me (and many others), by example, that redandblack jasper is a very nice thread for dark cane. Antique gold is verynice on medium dark rods.I've also come to enjoy a straight red that turns ruby under varnish.Best regards,Reed from flyrod@artistree.com Wed Jun 17 13:38:29 1998 LAA11194 Subject: Re: thread color for flame (burnt?)darkened cane mac-creator="4D4F5353" Jerry,I know what your going through. I have tried so many threads that I'm on afirstname basis with the salespeople at the fabric store. By the looks of mythreadcollection you would think I'm running a sewing shop. One idea you might try is the translucent (invisible) look. You might havetoexperiment with various very light gold or light yellows if the whitedoesn'twork for you. Maybe tipped with that chestnut, dark brown or black? This such a subjective subject but I thought I'd try anyway. Good luck.Best Regards,Chris Wohlford Jerry Snider wrote: I know this is a rather stupid question, up front. For the wraps for myfirst couple of rods I used nylon of various colors and it worked wellfromthe standpoint of good color. However, you all have me convinced that forbamboo I should be using silk thread. So for a test, I ordered assortedcolors (copper, beige, tan, brown, chestnut brown, gold, antique gold, red,black, white, etc.) of 3/0 silk from Anglers Workshop. Using no colorpreserver, these colors still look rather well on lightly flamed(honey-colored) bamboo (although not even CLOSE to the original colorsofcourse), and I certainly have my preferences for the colors that I like.However, when testing these colors on darkly flamed bamboo, only onecoloreven remotely looks good--a beige that turns a deep chestnut whenvarnished. The copper is not bad--a rather reddish brown. Both golds andthe tan turn out to be a rather uninteresting sickly neutral color. The redfares little better--almost a dark brown. There seems to be no way thatacontrasting color, or tipping, can be used because there IS no contrast!And you folks have me convinced that I shouldn't use color preserver onsilk.I am curious as to what colors, treatments, etc. many of you folks use ondarkly flamed cane?Thanks in advance for any input.Jerry Snider from anglport@con2.com Wed Jun 17 14:51:59 1998 Subject: Re: The Splitting of the Culm Wayne,I can't make it this year, so if someone gets so BLOTTO on microbrew, tellhim he's me and have him split again. I'd like to be in it by proxy!Art At 10:12 PM 6/16/98 EDT, you wrote:An idea that just got talked about in a phone conversation is that attheRoadKill Cookout at Grayrock on friday night that there would be theCeremonial Splitting of the Culm. The thought is that each and everyonepresent could take a swings at splitting the culm of bamboo that is goingtobe used for next year's rod. It has always been a concern that all wantingtocould be a part of the Makers Rod project. Although the thought of havingfolks guzzling down Biondo's and Fairchild's micro brews and thenbringing outsharp knives might prove to be interesting. from RMargiotta@aol.com Wed Jun 17 15:28:09 1998 Subject: Re: blackening brass ferrules Birchwood Casey makes a product called "Brass Black". It works on nickelsilver too, but it is black in color, not the highly sought blue- black.Gunshops carry Birchwood Casey products. --Rich from allen@chem.eng.usyd.edu.au Wed Jun 17 18:17:02 1998 (5.65v3.2/1.1.10.5/24Jul97-0344PM) Subject: tips on final coats hi I am currently doing a restoration on an old cane rodas I do not work with cane on a regular basis I dont have all the wizz banggear. My current problem is that I am looking for advice on how to get aproffesional looking finish when applying the final coats of urethanewithout having to go to all the trouble of building draw tanks and the like. I was thinking of just applying thined coats with an artists brush oneside at a time then lightly cutting them back to keep the edges sharpis this sheer madness or will it work ok.Any suggestions ?? Allen from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Jun 17 18:34:52 1998 head.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA14980; Wed, 17 Jun1998 19:34:52 -0400 Subject: Re: tips on final coats AllenI will defer to Tom Smithwick the resident brush finisher butI would not do one flat at a time - I have had Tom talk me through theprocess and you need to do all sides - it is an art to do right - but youwill get good results - you may find a spar varnish is a better choice Chris On Thu, 18 Jun 1998 09:18:28 +1000, Allen Glover wrote: hi I am currently doing a restoration on an old cane rodas I do not work with cane on a regular basis I dont have all the wizzbanggear. My current problem is that I am looking for advice on how to get aproffesional looking finish when applying the final coats of urethanewithout having to go to all the trouble of building draw tanks and thelike. I was thinking of just applying thined coats with an artists brush oneside at a time then lightly cutting them back to keep the edges sharpis this sheer madness or will it work ok.Any suggestions ?? Allen from CALucker@aol.com Wed Jun 17 18:35:32 1998 Subject: Re: tips on final coats In a message dated 98-06-17 19:18:43 EDT, you write: If you are restoring an old cane rod, why are you using urethane? Why notusewhatever was on the rod originally. You can find casein varnish, copalvarnish and many of the old formulas in art shops. Grumbacher (I think Ihavethe spelling right) makes much of the stuff. Many of the good formulas arebanned by the EPA when sold by the gallon or quart, however, they may bebought by the ounce! Nice loophole, especially if you need some of thevcarnish they used during the '20's or '30's. It just seems to me that if you don't try to keep the rod original, you arerefinishing the rod -- not restoring it. Chris Lucker from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Jun 17 18:37:22 1998 head.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA15508; Wed, 17 Jun1998 19:37:23 -0400 Subject: Re: The Splitting of the Culm Wayne And who said Rodmaking wasn't a blood sport!! As an ex-paramedic - I will have you breathing again in no timeat all. Chris On Tue, 16 Jun 1998 22:12:58 EDT, WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: An idea that just got talked about in a phone conversation is that attheRoadKill Cookout at Grayrock on friday night that there would be theCeremonial Splitting of the Culm. The thought is that each and everyonepresent could take a swings at splitting the culm of bamboo that is goingtobe used for next year's rod. It has always been a concern that all wantingtocould be a part of the Makers Rod project. Although the thought of havingfolks guzzling down Biondo's and Fairchild's micro brews and thenbringing outsharp knives might prove to be interesting. from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Jun 17 19:03:57 1998 Subject: Re: tips on final coats Allen - Chris and Chris are right. Don't try to brush on urethane, it has anasty tendency to run, and is better suited to dip tanks. I still useMcCloskyMan O War spar varnish, but replace the volatile oils regulated out byaddinga few drops of mineral spirits or turpentine per quart. Don't over do this, afew drops are all that is needed.I brush quickly from one guide to the next, applying the varnishgenerously,and then taking a light pass with the tip of the brush to level it. Alwaysbrush in one direction, back into your work. I hope this helps. from channer@hubwest.com Wed Jun 17 19:40:18 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A2599D700C8; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 18:42:01 MDT Subject: Re: thread color for flame (burnt?)darkened cane At 01:50 PM 6/17/98 -0400, you wrote:I know this is a rather stupid question, up front. For the wraps for myfirst couple of rods I used nylon of various colors and it worked wellfromthe standpoint of good color. However, you all have me convinced that forbamboo I should be using silk thread. So for a test, I ordered assortedcolors (copper, beige, tan, brown, chestnut brown, gold, antique gold, red,black, white, etc.) of 3/0 silk from Anglers Workshop. Using no colorpreserver, these colors still look rather well on lightly flamed(honey-colored) bamboo (although not even CLOSE to the original colors ofcourse), and I certainly have my preferences for the colors that I like.However, when testing these colors on darkly flamed bamboo, only onecoloreven remotely looks good--a beige that turns a deep chestnut whenvarnished. The copper is not bad--a rather reddish brown. Both golds andthe tan turn out to be a rather uninteresting sickly neutral color. The redfares little better--almost a dark brown. There seems to be no way thatacontrasting color, or tipping, can be used because there IS no contrast!And you folks have me convinced that I shouldn't use color preserver onsilk.I am curious as to what colors, treatments, etc. many of you folks use ondarkly flamed cane?Thanks in advance for any input.Jerry Snider Jerry;Try using Dave LeClairs poly blend on your wraps before varnish. It willstill darken some, but nowhere near as much. I just finished making asample stick with red, gold, green, black and brown with various tippingsand they were all nice colors.( my favorite and the one the customer choseis antique gold tipped brown.)I may just wrap all my flamed rods in thesecolors and not give people a choice anymore.John Channer from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Jun 17 20:04:21 1998 Subject: Re: blackening brass ferrules Try Paynes Nickel Silver Oxidizer, it works good on Brass, too. If you need info on this,send me your mailing address and I will send it toyou. Dave leClair from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Jun 17 20:18:25 1998 Subject: Re: thread color for flame (burnt?)darkened cane Jerry,Last year I built two split cane ultra-light spining rods for adentist.They were both flamed fairly dark.I wrapped them with orange silk ( kanagowa )thesameas Angler's sells. They looked fantastic. Dave L. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Jun 17 20:25:18 1998 Subject: Re: thread color for flame (burnt?)darkened cane Jerry,I forgot to mention that I used spar varnish over the wraps,withno color preserver.It's a beautifull translucent orange.Wait till you get it outsideinthe sunlight. Dave L. from saweiss@flash.net Wed Jun 17 20:56:08 1998 Subject: Re: tips on final coats -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: tips on final coats In a message dated 98-06-17 19:18:43 EDT, you write: as I do not work with cane on a regular basis I dont have all the wizzbanggear. My current problem is that I am looking for advice on how to get aproffesional looking finish when applying the final coats of urethane >> If you are restoring an old cane rod, why are you using urethane? Why notusewhatever was on the rod originally. You can find casein varnish, copalvarnish and many of the old formulas in art shops. Grumbacher (I think Ihavethe spelling right) makes much of the stuff. Many of the good formulasarebanned by the EPA when sold by the gallon or quart, however, they may bebought by the ounce! Nice loophole, especially if you need some of thevcarnish they used during the '20's or '30's. It just seems to me that if you don't try to keep the rod original, you arerefinishing the rod -- not restoring it. Chris Lucker Chris,What's the source of your information about these varnishes? Soundsinteresting, maybe worth some experimentation.Steve Weiss from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed Jun 17 21:03:42 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.1);Wed, 17Jun 1998 22:06:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Cracked Varnish at Ferrules Personally, I don't build nodeless rods because I have a problem with nodes. I think (not proven) a nodeless rod would be smoother than a sister noded rod. The only reason I think this is the following: I had two tip splines, one noded one nodeless. I bent them until the end and tip touched and looked at the profile. You could see the tangent lines where the nodes were. No such thing on the nodeless spline. I don't think they are weak, just stiffer. I wish I could force myself to take the time to compare two identical rods, one noded and one nodeless. If anyone would like to build a rod with nodes and epon, lets get together and switch when we are done. I would love to switch rods with anyone on the list. Obviously there are more logistics but they can be resolved later. This is a particularly interesting thread. The discussion of nodesalways seems to bring forth some very thought provoking comments.Fellows, may I ask a question?: I know that Garrison said that "nodesare Job's gift to the rodmaker" -- and we all can tell stories about ourvaried encounters with the 'pesky' critters, but has anyone been able toshow that nodes are truly the 'weak' spots in a bamboo spline? Despite the 'power fiber' theories, in my own experience, I've foundthat nodes appear to be the toughest part of the bamboo spline -- anotion which may rune counter to most accepted theories. Prove it toyourself. Take a bamboo spline into your two hands -- bend the splineinto a radical horseshoe shape and keep applying pressure until itbegins to splinter -- where does it break? At a node? No. It neverbreaks at a node. Rather, it splinters first in the internodal material-- i.e. between the nodes! What does this prove? I'm not sure ... but,it tells me that nodes are very hard and tough. So tough, in fact,they've been dulling plane blades for many years! Nothing against the 'nodeless contingent' out there -- I admire all ofyou for the extra work and beautiful rods you produce -- but, I've neverfound nodes to much of a problem for me. A scary sharp blade and a goodnode staggering method seems to address the 'problem' of pesky nodesadequately. Nodes represent just one more hurdle to cross in the construction of acane rod. We all develop our own way of dealing with them. But, onething for sure they do make for some interesting conversation -- thanks Joe Loverti Loverti Custom Cane Fly Rodshttp://www.triadvertising.com/canerods Jon Lintvet8602 Wild Olive StreetPotomac, MD 20854(800) 836-7558(301) 340-0194 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from triadvertising@sprintmail.com Wed Jun 17 21:19:46 1998 [168.191.29.65] (may beforged)) Subject: Re: Staggering (Was:Cracked Varnish at Ferrules) type="54455854"; SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 6/16/98 8:27:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time,triadvertising@sprintmail.com writes: But I've used 2x2x2 and 3x3x3 with equal results as near asI could tell. Let's here from others! Let's get our nomenclature straight first! There are six strips ina typical rod, so it's 2x2x2 or 3x3 (adds up to six). Sorry, don'tknow about staggering a five strip rod, but if you allow me to guess,a 2x2x1 ??? A quad would be 2x2 ??? Darryl My pardon for the typo ... you are quite right -- won't argue with yourmath. It's curious to see that no one has responded to the largerquestion of whether nodes are really 'weak' spots???? Joe Loverti Loverti Custom Cane Fly Rodshttp://www.triadvertising.com/canerods from channer@hubwest.com Wed Jun 17 23:22:04 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A650BE00104; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 22:23:44 MDT Subject: Re: Staggering (Was:Cracked Varnish at Ferrules) math. It's curious to see that no one has responded to the largerquestion of whether nodes are really 'weak' spots???? Joe Loverti Loverti Custom Cane Fly Rodshttp://www.triadvertising.com/canerods Joe; contingent. I have intentionally broke dozens of odd left over strips justto see how and where they break and to test the resiliency of a particularculm, and I have yet to see a strip break at a node. The only time I haveever broken a strip at a node is when I have burned it straightening.I,personally, would rather deal with nodes than to deal with that many moreangles and glue lines to come out right in a nodeless rod. I view nodes asnature's own finger joint.Just .02 worth.John Channer from bamboo@ycsi.net Wed Jun 17 23:23:18 1998 ; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 22:24:39 -0600 Subject: Andy Royer All, I have moved. My wife was drawn by the rivers and I was pulled by her. My contact information is below. Thank you. Andy Royer231 S. 2ndLivingston, MT59047 bamboo@ycsi.net(406) 222-1415 ph(406) 222-1582 fx If you don't like the following jokes or if you are offended, I had nothingto do with them.---------------------------- Redneck Medical Terms barium -- what you do to dead peoplebenign -- what you wanted when you were eightcarpal -- someone with whom you drive to schoolcauterize -- what the guy did before winking at the girlchiropractor -- an Egyptian doctordilate -- to live longelixir -- what a dog does to his owner when she gives him a boneintubate -- what a bate chucking fisherman isnitrate -- what the phone company charges after 5 p.m.varicose -- nearbyvitamin -- what you do when friends stop to visit-------------------------- It's the assistant coroner's 1st day on the job. He's alone in themorgue as they wheel in the first body. It's a man, lying on hisstomach, with a cork in his butt. Curious, the assistant coronerpulls out the cork and is astonished to hear the butt begin to sing..."on the road again...". He quickly corks it back up, and it stops. Thinking that he must notreally have heard what he just heard, he tries it again. Sure enough,out comes the cork, and out comes "on the road again...". He closesit up, just in time for the head coroner to walk in the room. Our friend describes what just happened, and his boss, not particularlyimpressed, asks, "So that surprises you?" "Well sure it surprises me! His butt was singing!" "Aw heck", says the coroner, "that's nothing. Any asshole can singcountry."================== There were two brothers, one about 9 years old and one about 7years old. The older one sat with his brother and told him, "You know,tomorrow I think I'm gonna start to cuss." The younger one said,"Well, I think I want to start, too.----What will we say?" The olderone thought a minute and stated he was going to start with the word"hell." The little one waited and said he thought he would start withthe word "ass." The next morning the two went downstairs for breakfast. Theirmother asked the older one, "What would you like for breakfast today,Johnny?" He leaned back in his best John Wayne impression, andsaid, "Hell, Mom, just pour me a bowl of Cheerios." His mother hurriedover to him, grabbed him, took him over to the sink and washed hismouth out with soap. The younger brother stared, wide-eyed. The momturned around and looked at the little brother and said, "And now, Jimmy,what would you like for breakfast?" The younger boy looked again at hissputtering brother and told her, "I don't know, Mom, but you canbet your ass it's not going to be Cheerios!" from stpete@netten.net Wed Jun 17 23:37:30 1998 cedar.netten.net(8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA22268 for ;Thu, 18 Jun 1998 00:11:10 Subject: Re: Radio Rod Richard Schiller wrote: Does anyone know of a rod called "Radio"? A friend is repairing one and asked me to check out its origin andapproximate age etc. Thanks Dick Dick, I have an old "Radio Rod". My grandfather gave it to me when I was 12 -he moved on to the new fiberglas model. I understand this rod was made colored intermediates ( of which there are some 160+ over 4 rodsections). The cane is dark 'browntone' and has a swelled butt. NSreelseat and ferrules. Reelseat is DL, SB and inscribed with the word"Radio". I have no idea the age of the rod, only that it made one 12year old very happy when a bluegill was connected to the business end ofit. I think this may be the type of rod Reed speaks of when praisingthe good old 'wet' fly rods. rick from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Jun 18 00:16:35 1998 Subject: Makers Rod 99 Perhaps a topic for discussion for the list could be this - Who wouldyourecommend (rod maker wise) to be involved with next years rod - MakersRod99???The conversations to this point has been that to keep the project activethat most or all the names would change on a yearly basis - and that thereshould be a cross section of both location as well as experience. A thoughtwas that the list - the subscribers of The Planing Form and The BambooFly Rodmag should make the suggestions of who to ask. making inthe works - when it is out there will be 6 living authors of rod makingbooks- any ideas thereAnother issue that has surfaced is of where the money should go. In thebeginning the thought was that with the idea having started at Grayrock -thatthe streams in that area should benefit - then as the years go by thoseattending future gatherings could watch the improvements that it paid for.Shared thoughts in this area have been that because a TU chapter is theinitial funnel that perhaps there should be a percentage sent to the FFFNational - having it earmarked to be spred to other locations to dorestoration. That would make both national groups feel that they were apartof the project and that not all the money would stay here in Michigan.An update - at this time there have been some 300 tickets sold - but inreality there are many more that haven't reached Grayrock for accountingandthat in the next few days several of us feel that that figure will climbquiterapidly. Looking back a year - there were many skeptics of whether or not thisproject would be a success - several thought that the Air was getting alittletoo clear in the Grayrock area - but if you do the math at 300 tickets -that's $15,000 ( - expenses) and a few of us are still convinced that a sellout isn't all that unrealistic.I have often sat at this keyboard before and wonder if there would beanyresponse to what I was writing - at times I think that I scare some fromsaying what they might like to - but I hope that isn't the case with thispost- you input is welcomed and asked for - Wayne from flyrod@artistree.com Thu Jun 18 01:22:41 1998 XAA07907 Subject: Re: Makers Rod 99 mac-creator="4D4F5353" Wayne,Just a thought but The Whirling Disease Foundation could use some help.http://www.whirling-disease.org/ Chris Wohlford from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Jun 18 01:40:38 1998 Subject: Re: Staggering (Was:Cracked Varnish at Ferrules) In a message dated 6/17/98 7:23:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time,triadvertising@sprintmail.com writes: My pardon for the typo ... you are quite right -- won't argue with yourmath. It's curious to see that no one has responded to the largerquestion of whether nodes are really 'weak' spots???? Hope you didn't take it as a flame, I was grinning when I wrote it. Afterseeing it come over the listserver It looked a lot worse than I meant itto be. Nodes aren't weak spots. As someone else noted, take a strip byeach end, bend it until it breaks. It won't be a node that breaks. Darryl from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Thu Jun 18 03:55:29 1998 post.interalpha.net(8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id JAA22145 for ;Thu, 18 Jun 1998 09:58:32+0100 Subject: Re: Payne Thread # At 13:24 17/06/98 EDT, you wrote:You made the first cut, but I need to make sure that I get 26 perfectspoolsbefore I start asking for addresses. orderedonly five pounds. That means there is extra silk for a second customorder. Chris. OK Chris I was stupid enough NOT to order on your first effort. Please put me down everyone. John Cooper from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Thu Jun 18 05:49:31 1998 post.interalpha.net(8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id LAA26219 for ;Thu, 18 Jun 1998 11:52:22+0100 Subject: Re: tips on final coats At 20:03 17/06/98 EDT, you wrote:Allen - Chris and Chris are right. Don't try to brush on urethane, it has anasty tendency to run, and is better suited to dip tanks. I still useMcCloskyMan O War spar varnish, but replace the volatile oils regulated out byaddinga few drops of mineral spirits or turpentine per quart. Don't over do this,afew drops are all that is needed.I brush quickly from one guide to the next, applying the varnishgenerously,and then taking a light pass with the tip of the brush to level it. Alwaysbrush in one direction, back into your work. I hope this helps. I'm a 'brusher' too Tom, and so am particularly interested in any techniquethat will improve my finish. I see you add only a little turpentine to the varnish. I add quite a bit -perhaps 25% plus heating over a water bath. Do you also heat the brew tomake it less viscous, thereby adding flow to allow the surface to glassover? What size and type of brush do you use? I use foam brushes, which seem tometo be superior to anything else. I also use a rod turner to aid eveness: do you? At present I'm using Epifanes spar varnish from Holland. This is excellentstuff: have you tried it? I've also used International Blue Peter withsuccess. JC from hhholland@erols.com Thu Jun 18 07:31:06 1998 Subject: Re: Makers Rod 99 Wayne, Here's my .02$ worth on the Maker's Rod 99 -- I thought the idea for the 98rod was (and IS) a wonderful one. The ticket is beautiful (and a SUPERB but Iwas somehow bothered by the fact that the proceeds go to a localizedgroup Iknow nothing about and have no association with. I'll probably never gettoGreystone, and never see any results, and neither would many potential"customers." This doesn't, of course, mean that the TU chapter isn'tworthwhile; I'm sure that it is! It just seems to me that a nationalbeneficiary would be more appropriate for a rod built by guys scatteredacross the country. I may be all wet here, but that was just myinstinctivereaction. P.S. I'll look forward to seeing you, Chris B. and Hank W. at theUniversity of Maryland Fly Show again next year! I'll be there with TheFisherman's Edge again. Hank Holland-----Original Message----- Subject: Makers Rod 99 Perhaps a topic for discussion for the list could be this - Who wouldyourecommend (rod maker wise) to be involved with next years rod - MakersRod99???The conversations to this point has been that to keep the projectactivethat most or all the names would change on a yearly basis - and thatthereshould be a cross section of both location as well as experience. Athoughtwas that the list - the subscribers of The Planing Form and The BambooFlyRodmag should make the suggestions of who to ask. makinginthe works - when it is out there will be 6 living authors of rod makingbooks- any ideas thereAnother issue that has surfaced is of where the money should go. Inthebeginning the thought was that with the idea having started at Grayrock -thatthe streams in that area should benefit - then as the years go by thoseattending future gatherings could watch the improvements that it paidfor.Shared thoughts in this area have been that because a TU chapter is theinitial funnel that perhaps there should be a percentage sent to the FFFNational - having it earmarked to be spred to other locations to dorestoration. That would make both national groups feel that they were apartof the project and that not all the money would stay here in Michigan.An update - at this time there have been some 300 tickets sold - butinreality there are many more that haven't reached Grayrock for accountingandthat in the next few days several of us feel that that figure will climbquiterapidly.Looking back a year - there were many skeptics of whether or not thisproject would be a success - several thought that the Air was getting alittletoo clear in the Grayrock area - but if you do the math at 300 tickets -that's $15,000 ( - expenses) and a few of us are still convinced that asellout isn't all that unrealistic.I have often sat at this keyboard before and wonder if there would beanyresponse to what I was writing - at times I think that I scare some fromsaying what they might like to - but I hope that isn't the case with thispost- you input is welcomed and asked for - Wayne from sniderja@email.uc.edu Thu Jun 18 08:24:05 1998 Subject: Re: thread color for flame (burnt?)darkened cane Dave, help! Tell me what I am doing incorrectly. I use a urethane finish onthe rod, then do the guides/wraps, finishing the wraps with your excellentpoly finish, using the sanding method and several coats as yourecommended.The FINISH is fantastic. The color is (ugh!) drab, to say the least. Whatam I doing wrong? Amazing! At 09:17 PM 6/17/98 EDT, you wrote:Jerry,Last year I built two split cane ultra-light spining rods for adentist.They were both flamed fairly dark.I wrapped them with orange silk ( kanagowa )thesameas Angler's sells. They looked fantastic. Dave L. Jerry Snidere-mail: Sniderja@email.uc.eduhttp://www.biology.uc.edu/snider/jerry.htm from sniderja@email.uc.edu Thu Jun 18 08:24:44 1998 Subject: Re: thread color for flame (burnt?)darkened cane Ahhh! Now I know! Thanks.Jerry Snider. At 09:21 PM 6/17/98 EDT, you wrote:Jerry,I forgot to mention that I used spar varnish over the wraps,withno color preserver.It's a beautifull translucent orange.Wait till you get itoutside inthe sunlight. Dave L. from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Thu Jun 18 09:05:29 1998 Subject: Thread colors for flamed rods Jerry-Hard to beat the Young/Payne/Summers,etc. idea of dark brown withblacktipping. I tried the copper with black tipping and it worked out prettynice. Reed's right- the black/ red or the red/black jasper with blacktipping is pretty classy - so is the black and orange jasper with blacktipping. Plain dark red or burgandy works pretty well too. Regards, Dennis P.S. I've used Griffith's thin fly tying head cement for color preservativeand it's worked well - wraps still have that silk sheen but the color's pretty much unchanged. from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Thu Jun 18 09:05:37 1998 Subject: Payne Node Spacing Rob-The couple of Paynes I've had a chance to get my hands on had the nodesspiraling up the section. One Butt section had a node on every other stripabout 11/2-2" apart spiraling counterclockwise for 3 nodes andclockwise counterclockwise. Another Butt had nodes spiraling about 1" apart onadjacent strips for 3 nodes/strips with a 4-6" break and 3 more nodessprialing about 1" apart on adjacent strips. The tips for that rod hadnodes spiraling up the rod on adjacent strips. Whatever "formula" thePayneRod Co. used their catalog says..."Another important characteristic isthe spacing of the node marks of the six strips of a rod joint so that nomark is alongside or opposite another." Someone at Merritt (don'trememberwho) said Payne nodes were 11/2" apart spiraled up the section. Sorry Idon't have a more definitive answer...maybe someone else out there has theformula?? RegardsDennis from dpeaston@wzrd.com Thu Jun 18 09:28:11 1998 wugate.wustl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA02242 mail.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) "INTERNET:rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Thread colors for flamed rods At 10:01 AM 6/18/98 -0400, dennis higham wrote:Jerry-Hard to beat the Young/Payne/Summers,etc. idea of dark brown withblacktipping. I tried the copper with black tipping and it worked out prettynice. Reed's right- the black/ red or the red/black jasper with blacktipping is pretty classy - so is the black and orange jasper with blacktipping. Plain dark red or burgandy works pretty well too. Regards, Dennis P.S. I've used Griffith's thin fly tying head cement for color preservativeand it's worked well - wraps still have that silk sheen but the color's pretty much unchanged. Dennis, Color is unchanged relative to what? -Doug Easton from sniderja@email.uc.edu Thu Jun 18 09:54:11 1998 Subject: Thanks for the color wrapping input Thanks so much for all of the valuable recommendations you folksprovided.I sincerely do appreciate it. Lots of new things to try! Jerry Snider from HelenDells@aol.com Thu Jun 18 10:13:08 1998 Subject: purge from list Please provide help on getting off the mailing list?! from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Jun 18 11:16:47 1998 0500 Subject: Scrap nodes Friends,I'm in the process of laying out sections for a couple of 7'6" 3piece rods. Each section will be approx. 30", and I am planning oncutting them to 36" after staggering the nodes, which will allow about3" of leeway on each end. The culm chosen allows me to have two nodesper strip in the part chosen for the final strip.After staggering and trimming, I will not have any nodes at theferrules. But, in the scrap portion of the strips (the extra 3" oneach end) there will be two nodes on one end. I hope this makessense. My question is, do I need to treat those nodes which willeventually be cut away with the same care as those in the rod,(carefully pressing flat, straightening, and sanding) or can I justplane them flat? I can't see why it would matter, since they will becut off anyway.Thanks for your input. It would be nice to correct at least onemistake before I make it!Harry Boyd from CALucker@aol.com Thu Jun 18 12:14:38 1998 Subject: Re: copal/casein varnish, etc In a message dated 98-06-17 21:58:14 EDT, you write: I am a third generation rod builder, so that I can't help remember some oftheinfo my grandfather and mom passed along to me. My Grandfather maderods andreal estate deals with Letcher Lambuth. My Grandfather made trollingrods forthe Puget Sound and Lake Washington. My Mom, made only two fly rods. Anyway, the varnish info, came from my Grandfather's old inquiries to theprofessional rodshops of his day. That's how he learned about copal andcasein varnishes. I did a lot of searching for the stuff until I finallyfound small bottles in the Art Supply store. Other info regarding the change in varnish formulas of Man-o-War, P&L,etccomes from simple calls to the EPA, Gary Howells, Sam Carlson, etc. I keep giving this simple tip to the list -- you can learn a lot from talkingto an old guy professional rod builder, than someone who is early in thecareer/hobby. Chris Lucker from rmoon@ida.net Thu Jun 18 12:29:09 1998 Subject: Re: copal/casein varnish, etc Chris, Your grandfather was not Stimson was he? I would be interestedin hearing a little more about why some of the older generation reliedon these varnishs which are more specialty varnishes rather than moreconventional resins Ralph from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Jun 18 13:57:51 1998 Subject: Guide Spacing Strategies Perhaps because I've been posting about tapers lately,I've been getting a lot of email asking for guidespacings. I mostly use Wayne's DOS program thatcomes with his book, and quite frankly, I don't thinkguide spacings are all that critical. In one case I sentoff the guide spacings I used, and I got a long dissertationback on why I should change the spacings. No offenseintended to the guy, but I think he went a little overboardon something that has got to be fairly simple. I do somethinga little different than most of the recommendations I have seen,and that is I put one snake guide per foot, instead of the recommended one per foot plus one. I'm willing to change my opinion on guide spacingsif someone can explain why they are that critical. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Jun 18 13:58:54 1998 Subject: Re: Makers Rod 99 In a message dated 6/18/98 5:34:23 AM Pacific Daylight Time,hhholland@erols.com writes: I'll probably never get toGreystone, and never see any results, and neither would many potential"customers." This doesn't, of course, mean that the TU chapter isn'tworthwhile; I'm sure that it is! It just seems to me that a nationalbeneficiary would be more appropriate for a rod built by guys scatteredacross the country. I may be all wet here, but that was just myinstinctivereaction. The amount of money gathered would benefit a small regional areagreatly, but be pretty much diluted if it was spread across a nationalproject. Even though I'm all the way over here in California, I'm for keeping the money local where it will have the most impact. I maynever be able to visit Grayrock, but I'd like to think there is a littletrout haven in the world somewhere that will remain clean and pristinebecause of the efforts of the rodmakers. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Jun 18 14:01:01 1998 Subject: Re: Makers Rod 99 I think it should be a mix of a few well known makers with somenot so famous and unknown makers. You could entice more people to buy a ticket if a few famous names could be listed as making a strip.Can you imagine the reaction if this rod were made years ago, and you could advertise it as Garrison made a strip, Pinky Gillium made a strip, Payne made a strip. What would a rod like that be worth today?The owner could say, " I have a Garrison Gillium Payne rod." That being said , I also realize that one of the intentions of the MakersRod was to involve as many of the rod making community as possible,and not exclude the unknown makers. So, I volunteer to plane a strip Darryl Hayashida from jsbond@inforamp.net Thu Jun 18 14:38:32 1998 Subject: Re: Andy Royer SURE, A LIKELY STORY..... JB At 10:24 PM 6/17/98 -0700, you wrote:All, I have moved. My wife was drawn by the rivers and I was pulled by her. My contact information is below. Thank you. Andy Royer231 S. 2ndLivingston, MT59047 bamboo@ycsi.net(406) 222-1415 ph(406) 222-1582 fx If you don't like the following jokes or if you are offended, I had nothingto do with them.---------------------------- Redneck Medical Terms barium -- what you do to dead peoplebenign -- what you wanted when you were eightcarpal -- someone with whom you drive to schoolcauterize -- what the guy did before winking at the girlchiropractor -- an Egyptian doctordilate -- to live longelixir -- what a dog does to his owner when she gives him a boneintubate -- what a bate chucking fisherman isnitrate -- what the phone company charges after 5 p.m.varicose -- nearbyvitamin -- what you do when friends stop to visit-------------------------- It's the assistant coroner's 1st day on the job. He's alone in themorgue as they wheel in the first body. It's a man, lying on hisstomach, with a cork in his butt. Curious, the assistant coronerpulls out the cork and is astonished to hear the butt begin to sing..."on the road again...". He quickly corks it back up, and it stops. Thinking that he must notreally have heard what he just heard, he tries it again. Sure enough,out comes the cork, and out comes "on the road again...". He closesit up, just in time for the head coroner to walk in the room. Our friend describes what just happened, and his boss, not particularlyimpressed, asks, "So that surprises you?" "Well sure it surprises me! His butt was singing!" "Aw heck", says the coroner, "that's nothing. Any asshole can singcountry."================== There were two brothers, one about 9 years old and one about 7years old. The older one sat with his brother and told him, "You know,tomorrow I think I'm gonna start to cuss." The younger one said,"Well, I think I want to start, too.----What will we say?" The olderone thought a minute and stated he was going to start with the word"hell." The little one waited and said he thought he would start withthe word "ass." The next morning the two went downstairs for breakfast. Theirmother asked the older one, "What would you like for breakfast today,Johnny?" He leaned back in his best John Wayne impression, andsaid, "Hell, Mom, just pour me a bowl of Cheerios." His mother hurriedover to him, grabbed him, took him over to the sink and washed hismouth out with soap. The younger brother stared, wide-eyed. The momturned around and looked at the little brother and said, "And now, Jimmy,what would you like for breakfast?" The younger boy looked again at hissputtering brother and told her, "I don't know, Mom, but you canbet your ass it's not going to be Cheerios!" from gwbarnes@gwi.net Thu Jun 18 15:14:59 1998 Subject: Re: tips on final coats TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: Allen - Chris and Chris are right.I brush quickly from one guide to the next, applying the varnishgenerously,and then taking a light pass with the tip of the brush to level it. Alwaysbrush in one direction, back into your work. Tom:I'd think you were a product of the yachting era. Sounds just like myFatherwho varnished endlessly on yachts from 1921 to 1939. The only otheradvice he hadwhich applied to both paint and varnish was "Smooth it out, you can't puttwocoats on at once".George from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Thu Jun 18 15:37:48 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: copal/casein varnish, etc http://www.sinopia.com/cgi- bin/html_web_store.cgi?page=7910.html&category=yes&cart_id=1190567.615 ----------From: CALucker@aol.com[SMTP:CALucker@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, June 18, 1998 10:11 AM Subject: Re: copal/casein varnish, etc In a message dated 98-06-17 21:58:14 EDT, you write: What's the source of your information about these varnishes? Soundsinteresting, maybe worth some experimentation.Steve Weiss >> I am a third generation rod builder, so that I can't help remembersome of theinfo my grandfather and mom passed along to me. My Grandfather maderods andreal estate deals with Letcher Lambuth. My Grandfather made trollingrods forthe Puget Sound and Lake Washington. My Mom, made only two fly rods. Anyway, the varnish info, came from my Grandfather's old inquiries totheprofessional rodshops of his day. That's how he learned about copalandcasein varnishes. I did a lot of searching for the stuff until Ifinallyfound small bottles in the Art Supply store. Other info regarding the change in varnish formulas of Man-o-War, P&L,etccomes from simple calls to the EPA, Gary Howells, Sam Carlson, etc. I keep giving this simple tip to the list -- you can learn a lot fromtalkingto an old guy professional rod builder, than someone who is early inthecareer/hobby. Chris Lucker from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Jun 18 16:16:57 1998 Subject: Re: Makers Rod 99 FYI - of the 27 makers involved in this years rod only 1 hadn't fishedthesponsered streams - I appreciate the comments so far and hope that therearemore to come Wayne from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Jun 18 17:18:46 1998 Subject: Re: Re: tips on final coats In a message dated 6/18/98 10:53:52 AM, you wrote: Not yet, but I hear good things about Epifanes and intend to try it nexttimeI buy varnish. Overall, I get a nice finish, my only problem is a few dustmotes that always find their way in. I use an automotive rubbing compoundcalled Perfect-it II by 3M Company to get rid of any imperfections from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Jun 18 17:36:35 1998 Subject: Re: Re: tips on final coats In a message dated 6/18/98 8:21:09 PM, you wrote: Hello George. Well you are probably right, I learned brushing techniquefrommy father, who learned it when he was a kid, no doubt. At that time I amsurethere were no such things as leveling additives, and you had to do ityourself, or live with the brush marks. from RVenneri@aol.com Thu Jun 18 18:02:27 1998 Subject: Re: Makers Rod 99 Wayne,If you do not have someone already I would be Honored If you would allowmeto supply the reel seat. I Know you have not seen any of my work But Iwouldlove to be involved in this if its at all possible. I my self am not a bamboorod maker yet. So the only thing I have to offer is my reel seats. If youwould like to see a sample of my work let me know and I will send yousomesamples. Best Regards,Bob VVenneri' s Custom Components21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties Ny 12477914 246 5882 from channer@hubwest.com Thu Jun 18 18:24:58 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A22F1BD00B2; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 17:26:39 MDT Subject: Re: Thread colors for flamed rods At 10:01 AM 6/18/98 -0400, you wrote:Jerry-Hard to beat the Young/Payne/Summers,etc. idea of dark brown withblacktipping. I tried the copper with black tipping and it worked out prettynice. Reed's right- the black/ red or the red/black jasper with blacktipping is pretty classy - so is the black and orange jasper with blacktipping. Plain dark red or burgandy works pretty well too. Regards, Dennis P.S. I've used Griffith's thin fly tying head cement for color preservativeand it's worked well - wraps still have that silk sheen but the color's pretty much unchanged. Dennis;I have tried most everything I have heard about for color preserver andthose that don't crack by the 2nd or 3rd outing bleed varnish underneathand get blotchy. How does this stuff hold up?John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Thu Jun 18 18:25:03 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A23950D00B4; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 17:26:49 MDT Subject: Re: Andy Royer At 10:24 PM 6/17/98 -0700, you wrote:All, I have moved. My wife was drawn by the rivers and I was pulled by her. My contact information is below. Thank you. Andy Royer Andy;Are you still going to be in the bamboo business and do you have much ofthe last batch that I've heard is very good left?John Channer from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Jun 18 18:55:39 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Makers Rod 99 Wayne and list,I have seen and bought R Venneris reelseats and I can highly recommendhim tosupply next years reelseat. I have bought other makers seats in the pastandVenneri's are the best I've gotten so far. this is an unpaid advertisement.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Jun 18 18:57:47 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Makers Rod 99 Wayne,i think it would be neat to have some not so well known makers involvednextyear along with well known makers. I know there are guys out there thatno-one knows who are building nice rods.bret from triadvertising@sprintmail.com Thu Jun 18 19:14:48 1998 [168.191.28.139] (may beforged)) Subject: Re: Makers Rod 99 type="54455854"; RVenneri@aol.com wrote: Wayne,If you do not have someone already I would be Honored If you wouldallow meto supply the reel seat. I Know you have not seen any of my work ButI wouldlove to be involved in this if its at all possible. I my self am nota bamboorod maker yet. So the only thing I have to offer is my reel seats. If youwould like to see a sample of my work let me know and I will send yousomesamples.Best Regards,Bob VVenneri' s Custom Components21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties Ny 12477914 246 5882 Wayne: Bob hardly needs any endorsement from me -- But, if you willallow me ... there's no one making a finer reel seat. His work is topdrawer. Bob, keep up the fine work. Joe Loverti Loverti Custom Cane Fly Rodshttp://www.triadvertising.com/canerods from saltwein@swbell.net Thu Jun 18 19:19:11 1998 TAA26339 Subject: Re: Makers Rod 99 List,Speaking of rodmakers, known and unknown. Does anyone have any how many of us there are? Just curious to see if the math wizards canmake some extrapolations from known data. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from triadvertising@sprintmail.com Thu Jun 18 19:25:02 1998 [168.191.28.139] (may beforged)) Subject: Re: Staggering (Was:Cracked Varnish at Ferrules) type="54455854"; SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 6/17/98 7:23:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time,triadvertising@sprintmail.com writes: My pardon for the typo ... you are quite right -- won't argue withyourmath. It's curious to see that no one has responded to the largerquestion of whether nodes are really 'weak' spots???? Hope you didn't take it as a flame, I was grinning when I wrote it.Afterseeing it come over the listserver It looked a lot worse than I meantitto be. Nodes aren't weak spots. As someone else noted, take a strip byeach end, bend it until it breaks. It won't be a node that breaks. Darryl Darryl: No problem. I was grinning also when I realized how silly 3x3x3 musthave looked. Typing when one is half asleep is NOT a good thing. Joe Loverti Loverti Custom Cane Fly Rodshttp://www.triadvertising.com/canerods from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Thu Jun 18 19:52:21 1998 with SMTP +0000 message Subject: Re: Staggering (Was:Cracked Varnish at Ferrules) Hi Joe, I was wondering just what a 9 strip rod would look like! I thought youmight have raisedrodmaking to a higher plane! Dennis Haftel ----------SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 6/17/98 7:23:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time,triadvertising@sprintmail.com writes: My pardon for the typo ... you are quite right -- won't argue withyourmath. It's curious to see that no one has responded to the largerquestion of whether nodes are really 'weak' spots???? Hope you didn't take it as a flame, I was grinning when I wrote it.Afterseeing it come over the listserver It looked a lot worse than I meantitto be. Nodes aren't weak spots. As someone else noted, take a strip byeach end, bend it until it breaks. It won't be a node that breaks. Darryl Darryl: No problem. I was grinning also when I realized how silly 3x3x3 musthave looked. Typing when one is half asleep is NOT a good thing. Joe Loverti Loverti Custom Cane Fly Rodshttp://www.triadvertising.com/canerods from flyrod@artistree.com Thu Jun 18 20:32:47 1998 SAA04603 Subject: Re: Makers Rod 99 mac-creator="4D4F5353" Couldn't agree more. Bob does fantastic work.Chris Wohlford Wayne: Bob hardly needs any endorsement from me -- But, if you willallow me ... there's no one making a finer reel seat. His work is topdrawer. Bob, keep up the fine work. Joe Loverti Loverti Custom Cane Fly Rodshttp://www.triadvertising.com/canerods from LECLAIR123@aol.com Thu Jun 18 20:56:50 1998 Subject: Re: thread color for flame (burnt?)darkened cane Jerry,It depends on the color of the silk. Some colors are UGH- drab.Somecolors come to life when varnished,some colors never come to life. I find mostdark colors such as dark green,blue,maroon,etc, look drab to me. Butlight,brightcolors , such as yellow,orange,sky blue,etc., come alive when varnished. I wouldsuggest you try different colors of silk,wrapped on a section of rod and varnishedwith different kinds of finish. Try, with color preserver,with out colorpreserver,spar varnish,poly varnish,etc.This will tell you the best finish for each color ofsilk to bring out the best of that particular color. I find some silk colors lookbetter with only spar varnish over them,some look better with a poly varnish and some ( especially ) the darker colors look better with a color preserver and thenvarnish. There are some colors I won't use because I don't think there is anythingyoucan do to make them come alive.I,like you,don't like BLAH anywere on my rods. Myself, I tend to use the light tans,and very light browns.Using onlymarinespar varnish over them.They go translucent,leaving only a hint of color.You cansee the guide feet and even see the fibers in the flamed cane right thru thewraps. I hope this helps you. Dave P.S. Thanks for the good words about my oxidizer.... from LECLAIR123@aol.com Thu Jun 18 21:10:40 1998 Subject: Re: Guide Spacing Strategies I built a 7ft. 3wt. for a customer of mine last year.He loved it and said itcasted great. Then he saw a 7ft. Sage graphite rod at a fly shop and liked the looks oftheguide spacing better on the Sage better than that of my cane rod.He wanted metoremove all the guides and rewrap them to the guide spacing of the Sage.He eventook a tape measure in to the fly shop so he could write the exact spacing downonpaper. I tried to explain to him,why I installed the guides as I did.He didn't wantto hear it. All he cared about was the way the rod looked,not how well itcasted,etc.So, I ended up redoing all of the guides on the rod,to HIS specs. Needless to say, I won't build this guy another rod. Go figure............. Dave LeClair from LECLAIR123@aol.com Thu Jun 18 21:22:11 1998 Subject: Re: Makers Rod 99 I have some were around 600 cane rod makers,world wide in my computorthat buy components from me.I'm sure there are even more than that out there. Dave LeClairThe Fly and Rod Room from r.schiller@worldnet.att.net Thu Jun 18 21:24:49 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Radio Rod -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Radio Rod I have an old "Radio Rod". My grandfather gave it to me when I was 12 -he moved on to the new fiberglas model. I understand this rod was made colored intermediates ( of which there are some 160+ over 4 rodsections). The cane is dark 'browntone' and has a swelled butt. NSreelseat and ferrules. Reelseat is DL, SB and inscribed with the word"Radio". I have no idea the age of the rod, only that it made one 12year old very happy when a bluegill was connected to the business end ofit. I think this may be the type of rod Reed speaks of when praisingthe good old 'wet' fly rods. rick Rick: Many, many thanks. You have described his rod perfectly. Must be thesamething. I will try researching Edwards and see what I come up with. Regards,Dick from saweiss@flash.net Thu Jun 18 21:36:35 1998 Subject: Re: purge from list -----Original Message----- Subject: purge from list Please provide help on getting off the mailing list?! Helen,go to the following page and read the instructions:http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/dirs.html Steve Weiss from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Jun 18 21:42:30 1998 Subject: Re: Makers Rod 99 If we were to dig back through the files from last year - Alan - REC waskinda promised the position - let's plan ahead and make an invite forMakers00??????? from triadvertising@sprintmail.com Thu Jun 18 21:49:30 1998 [168.191.29.80] (may beforged)) Subject: Re: Staggering (Was:Cracked Varnish at Ferrules) type="54455854"; Joe; contingent. I have intentionally broke dozens of odd left over stripsjustto see how and where they break and to test the resiliency of aparticularculm, and I have yet to see a strip break at a node. The only time Ihaveever broken a strip at a node is when I have burned itstraightening.I,personally, would rather deal with nodes than to deal with that manymoreangles and glue lines to come out right in a nodeless rod. I viewnodes asnature's own finger joint.Just .02 worth.John Channer Obviously John, your are a reader of the 'Planing Form' -- where a fewmonths back (or maybe it was years?) I wrote a short piece on the"tenacious tough guys" -- our fickle friends ... the nodes. There's nodoubt about it that a 'nodeless' rod is a thing of beauty and a joyforever. Wish I had the patience to build one. Unfortunately, I've neverhad much of a desire since others are doing it so expertly already --So, I've taken the simpler approach of not trying to radically changethe physical nature of the stip, but rather deal with it as it exsistsand simply apply a taper to it. So far I've no regrets. Back when Ismoked a pipe, the burl of the briar root of my pipes reminded mesomewhat of the nodes in a cane strip -- very hard, very tough andextremely dense -- not so bad an attribute in something meant to takethe stresses of a bamboo fly rod. Joe Loverti Loverti Custom Cane Fly Rodshttp://www.triadvertising.com/canerods from triadvertising@sprintmail.com Thu Jun 18 21:58:40 1998 [168.191.29.80] (may beforged)) Subject: Re: Staggering (Was:Cracked Varnish at Ferrules) message type="54455854"; Dennis Haftel wrote: Hi Joe, I was wondering just what a 9 strip rod would look like! Ithought you might have raised rodmaking to a higher plane! Dennis Haftel Hi Dennis:Nice to hear from you. Taken from a mathmatics viewpoint a 3x3x3 wouldactually equal 27 ! Now, that's a rod I'd like to see built ! Joe Loverti Loverti Custom Cane Fly Rodshttp://www.triadvertising.com/canerods from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Jun 18 22:09:11 1998 Subject: Re: Makers Rod 99 Just so that the slate is cleared - it was also mentioned that ArneMasonshould supply the case - Cortland supply the line - Bill Ballan had offeredacustom reel - and then there were a list of left over makers - Sir D - RalphMoon - Tony - as for a list of other consider - there is a lady in Montana that has aninterest in learning to make rods - she has direct access to someone thatdefinately knows his rods in other conversations the following names have surfaced - TomMaxwell - Digger - Mark Aroner - Hoagy C - Vic Edwards - Sam Carlson - Bob PooleandLuis were on last year but they both hit health problems - Mario W - JohnBradford - Bob Summers - Charlie and Steve Jenkins - Art Neumann - TomDorsey- Douglas Duck - Bill WaaraI think that Ted - Willis - Tom Aquinas Daly should be considered aswell FYI - without naming names there were several on this years rod that haveonlymade one or two rods - I think that the concensis is that a 50% - 50% is agood mix from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Jun 18 23:04:29 1998 Subject: Re: Makers Rod 99 Another idea would be that everyone that wished to could not only helpsplit the culm at Grayrock but help make 1 strip - label it Grayrock 98 ortheblood and beer stains could be left instead of a label- the strip could be1/2blonde - 1/2 flamed - Chris and the nodeless could do a splice and AlMedvedcould make one of his really neat contrast fillers - obviously 1/2 blonde -1/2 flamed ?????????????? Wayne from JHecht9234@aol.com Thu Jun 18 23:04:57 1998 Subject: trout/bass taper I would like to build a 6 weight for Western trout fishing that could alsododouble duty as a smallmouth rod. I would appreciate any suggested tapers. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Jun 19 01:11:41 1998 Fri, 19 Jun 1998 14:11:31 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Makers Rod 99 On Fri, 19 Jun 1998 WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: Another idea would be that everyone that wished to could not only helpsplit the culm at Grayrock but help make 1 strip - label it Grayrock 98 ortheblood and beer stains could be left instead of a label- the strip could be1/2blonde - 1/2 flamed - Chris and the nodeless could do a splice and AlMedvedcould make one of his really neat contrast fillers - obviously 1/2 blonde-1/2 flamed ?????????????? Wayne So far the Author 6 rod sounds best. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from CALucker@aol.com Fri Jun 19 02:57:16 1998 Subject: Re: copal/casein varnish, etc In a message dated 98-06-18 13:33:45 EDT, you write: No, My Grandfather was a LaVoy, but we knew the Stimsons fairly well. I am not too sure that copal varnish was such a specialty item back inthemdays. For example, I think Moss refers to using copal varnish in his goofyslim book on making rod building harder than it has to be. If anyone has anopportunity to read Moss they should. He suggests using tent stakes or anyavailable bamboo for construction. Casein varnish is nice to work with because it is so thin. The realadvantageto copal varnish that I see is that it is so dark. Restoring some rods youneed to use specific stuff on wraps to get the color right. Real EC Powells right. Don't believe folks like Marty Keane when they describe an EC- madeECPowell as having varnish at the wraps only. It ain't varnish. Chris from ccurrojr@mindspring.com Fri Jun 19 06:15:10 1998 Subject: Re: Makers Rod 99 Another idea would be that everyone that wished to could not only helpsplit the culm at Grayrock but help make 1 strip - label it Grayrock 98 ortheblood and beer stains could be left instead of a label- the strip could be1/2blonde - 1/2 flamed - Chris and the nodeless could do a splice and AlMedvedcould make one of his really neat contrast fillers - obviously 1/2 blonde-1/2 flamed ?????????????? Dearest Wayne, You're overworked, you're tired . . .and now that Jack Pine blood whichflowsfreely through your veins has made you bonkers. Take 2 aspirin, and (just for a change) try to get 2 hours of sleep, thencallus (the List) in the morning. We love you anyway.(Con)artist from Nodewrrior@aol.com Fri Jun 19 07:13:23 1998 Subject: Re: trout/bass taper I've been dying to make the 2-tip version of the Para-15 just for that verypurpose for this trout desert we know as Illinois. Seems like it would be agood set up for both situations. I'd use the taper in the Rodmakers website.Now if I could only get the time... Rob Hoffhines from Nodewrrior@aol.com Fri Jun 19 07:29:45 1998 Subject: Re: Whata taper!! Many thanks to Wayne (and to Darryl for singing his praises) for the 7'4wt. Ijust finished an early blank that had a chipped node and relegated toexperiment status. So I impregnated the guy, slapped some guides on it andallthe excitement is well deserved!Oh, the impregnation worked nicely too... Hoffhines from sniderja@email.uc.edu Fri Jun 19 08:03:54 1998 Subject: Re: thread color for flame (burnt?)darkened cane Dave, I have already experienced what you are saying about the lightercolors, especially when I use them on brown sugar colored and honeycoloredrods. However, when I use these threads on dark chestnut flamed rods, itdoesn't seem to work at all. The only colors that look good on these reallydark rods are copper (which turns a sort of red-brown when varnished),andbeige, which turns a deep chestnut brown when varnished. Obviously, thedark color of the bamboo is coming through on these colors. They looktotally different on honey-colored cane. I suppose some of you folks havecaused me to shy away from color preserver because of the toutedbleedingeffect or discoloration, or whatever. On the occasions when I did use itwith silk, and it didn't work well, I cut the wraps from the rod, and theysimply fell off. When I try this with your poly varnish or spar varnish,the wraps were really glued on!Thanks for the input!At 09:55 PM 6/18/98 EDT, you wrote:Jerry,It depends on the color of the silk. Some colors are UGH-drab.Somecolors come to life when varnished,some colors never come to life. I find mostdark colors such as dark green,blue,maroon,etc, look drab to me. Butlight,brightcolors , such as yellow,orange,sky blue,etc., come alive when varnished. I wouldsuggest you try different colors of silk,wrapped on a section of rod and varnishedwith different kinds of finish. Try, with color preserver,with out colorpreserver,spar varnish,poly varnish,etc.This will tell you the best finish for each colorofsilk to bring out the best of that particular color. I find some silk colors lookbetter with only spar varnish over them,some look better with a poly varnish andsome ( especially ) the darker colors look better with a color preserver andthenvarnish. There are some colors I won't use because I don't think there is anythingyoucan do to make them come alive.I,like you,don't like BLAH anywere on my rods. Myself, I tend to use the light tans,and very light browns.Using onlymarinespar varnish over them.They go translucent,leaving only a hint of color.You cansee the guide feet and even see the fibers in the flamed cane right thru thewraps. I hope this helps you. Dave P.S. Thanks for the good words about my oxidizer.... Jerry Snidere-mail: Sniderja@email.uc.eduhttp://www.biology.uc.edu/snider/jerry.htm from SealRite@aol.com Fri Jun 19 09:10:26 1998