Subject: Bellinger Reel Seats Following some of the threads on silk tread and ferrules, I am thinkingaboutputting together a stock order for Bellinger reel seats. If we can get a$1,000 order together we can get a pretty good discount. If anyone is interested, contact me off list at Sealrite@aol.com or Craig A.Anderson402-430-4375 from eric.koehler@meissner-wurst.com Fri Jun 19 10:00:41 1998 Subject: RE: Whata taper!! - now: impregnation question Oh, the impregnation worked nicely too... Since you brought it up: I'm wanting to do a little impregnationexperimentation (hold the obvious jokes please)... Can someone tellme/point me to a good resource where I can learn about techniques,equipment, and chemicals? I have no info at all on the topic, so anyinput would be helpful. Thanks in advance,Eck eric.koehler@meissner-wurst.com"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it'stoo dark to read." Groucho Marx from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Jun 19 11:27:46 1998 Subject: Re: Whata taper!! In a message dated 6/19/98 5:35:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time,Nodewrrior@aol.com writes: I just finished an early blank that had a chipped node and relegated toexperiment status Who was it on this list that said, "Rodmakers don't throw away theirmistakes, they fish with them"? Most of the rods that I personally use I have kept because something was wrong with them, but they fish just fine. I don't think most people realize what a treasure that list of this taper from 6' 3" to 7' 6" Wayne posted last year is. I've expanded it from 5'to 8'. I've already posted the 5' taper. My next experiment is the 8',and I truly believe this taper in a 9' will be a contender for a worldclass distance caster.... Darryl from saweiss@flash.net Fri Jun 19 13:09:21 1998 Subject: Re: Whata taper!! -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Whata taper!! Many thanks to Wayne (and to Darryl for singing his praises) for the 7'4wt. Ijust finished an early blank that had a chipped node and relegated toexperiment status. So I impregnated the guy, slapped some guides on itandallthe excitement is well deserved!Oh, the impregnation worked nicely too... Hoffhines What impregnation technique did you use?Steve Weiss from bamboo@ycsi.net Fri Jun 19 13:14:12 1998 ; Fri, 19 Jun 1998 12:14:56 -0600 Subject: Re: Andy Royer Yes and yes. Andy Royerbamboo@ycsi.net(406) 222-1415 ph(406) 222-1582 fx Andy;Are you still going to be in the bamboo business and do you have much ofthe last batch that I've heard is very good left?John Channer from geraldb@pennwell.com Fri Jun 19 16:39:46 1998 Subject: RE: darryl's c-clamp splitting method Speaking of "The Video" has anyone found a WWW site which has rodmakingclips in video and audio? I could get into something of that nature. If it doesn't exist (yet) does anyone have their own footage they wouldwantdigitized and put up for all to see? I might be able to swing something likethis... if there's any interest... (hint hint) gerald ----------From: Art Port Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 1998 8:29 PM Subject: Re: darryl's c-clamp splitting method This is one of those things that is difficult to explain in words, but simple if you saw it done. Darryl Darryl,So ...when can we expect the video?Art from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Jun 19 17:53:24 1998 Subject: Re: Makers Rod 99 WayneSounds like a good idea to have a special Grayling gatheringstrip since we will have the time to do it after the ritual spliting of theCulm. Chris On Fri, 19 Jun 1998 00:03:52 EDT, WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: Another idea would be that everyone that wished to could not only helpsplit the culm at Grayrock but help make 1 strip - label it Grayrock 98 ortheblood and beer stains could be left instead of a label- the strip could be1/2blonde - 1/2 flamed - Chris and the nodeless could do a splice and AlMedvedcould make one of his really neat contrast fillers - obviously 1/2 blonde-1/2 flamed ?????????????? Wayne Regards Chris from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Jun 19 17:56:33 1998 Subject: Re: Makers Rod 99 Gee I was waiting to see if he proposed to have the butt 6 sidedmid 5 sided and tips 4 sided while he was on a roll. Chris On Fri, 19 Jun 1998 06:13:34 -0500, Charles Curro wrote: Another idea would be that everyone that wished to could not onlyhelpsplit the culm at Grayrock but help make 1 strip - label it Grayrock 98or theblood and beer stains could be left instead of a label- the strip could be1/2blonde - 1/2 flamed - Chris and the nodeless could do a splice and AlMedvedcould make one of his really neat contrast fillers - obviously 1/2blonde -1/2 flamed ?????????????? Dearest Wayne, You're overworked, you're tired . . .and now that Jack Pine blood whichflowsfreely through your veins has made you bonkers. Take 2 aspirin, and (just for a change) try to get 2 hours of sleep, thencallus (the List) in the morning. We love you anyway.(Con)artist Regards Chris from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Jun 19 17:59:45 1998 Subject: Re: Scrap nodes In a message dated 6/18/98 9:23:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time,fbcwin@fsbnet.comwrites: My question is, do I need to treat those nodes which willeventually be cut away with the same care as those in the rod,(carefully pressing flat, straightening, and sanding) or can I justplane them flat? I can't see why it would matter, since they will becut off anyway.Thanks for your input. It would be nice to correct at least onemistake before I make it! As long as the node doesn't affect the way the strip sits in yourplaning form, and doesn't throw off planing where the strip is goingto be flyrod. I would plane it flat on the enamel side, but then I'vetaken to planing a lot of the enamel side nowadays. Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Jun 19 18:01:12 1998 Subject: Re: Makers Rod 99 In a message dated 6/19/98 3:58:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time,cbogart@shentel.net writes: Gee I was waiting to see if he proposed to have the butt 6 sidedmid 5 sided and tips 4 sided while he was on a roll. Don't forget spiraled! Darryl from FLYROD777@aol.com Fri Jun 19 18:13:50 1998 Subject: Shot in the Dark Well I know this is a long shot. I have a gentleman that called the othernight and asked me to give me some info on his rod, and it is not much, forhim to learn about his rod. Here goes: Red thread, duel stripping guides (one on the butt section), hashad it 40 years now and it was someone elses prior to this. It has akalamazoreel on it that was on it when he got it. Reel Pat. is 1698, model C. It isa self reeling style. the pouch was fitted for a reel to go in with the rod,so he thinks the reel and the rod were sold together. The rod wasrefinishedyears ago (No Label or name). No intermediates per say. Yes I know this isnot much. Didn't say it was easy.But if anyone thinks this strikes a bell I'dsure be interested. Mark from poma@quest-net.com Fri Jun 19 19:18:46 1998 Subject: 8 1/2' 2/2 tapers RE: recent request for 8 1/2' 2/2 tapers for a 5/6 line. Payne Model 104 2/2 8 1/2' 5 1/4 ouncesmeasured over varnish ( ?.004- .006 ) 1" .0752.5" .0805" .08910" .10915" .13020" .14325" .16330" .17235" .19240" .20145" .21449.5" .21455" .24460" .26365" .27470" .28375" .30080" .31585" .33090" .35092" .375 Guide spacing with rod joined: TIPS:1st 5 1/4"2nd 10 1/2"3rd 17 1/16"4th 23 5/16"5th 30 1/8"6th 37 3/4"7th 45 3/8"BUTT8th 53 1/8"9th 61 1/16"STR 77 1/8"WCk 92 11/16" Handle: 9 1/4" loacork grip: 6 1/8"UL seat: 3 1/8" from flyrod@artistree.com Fri Jun 19 19:38:10 1998 RAA22999 Subject: Re: Makers Rod 99 mac-creator="4D4F5353" As well as hallow built and impregnated.Chris SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 6/19/98 3:58:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time,cbogart@shentel.net writes: Gee I was waiting to see if he proposed to have the butt 6 sidedmid 5 sided and tips 4 sided while he was on a roll. Don't forget spiraled! Darryl from saltwein@swbell.net Fri Jun 19 20:03:25 1998 UAA05099 Subject: Re: Scrap nodes As long as the node doesn't affect the way the strip sits in yourplaning form, and doesn't throw off planing where the strip is goingto be flyrod. I would plane it flat on the enamel side, but then I'vetaken to planing a lot of the enamel side nowadays. Darryl, Would you like to expound on your planing a lot of enamel sidenowadays? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from dickay@alltel.net Fri Jun 19 20:47:31 1998 UAA04341 Subject: Re: Shot in the Dark It has a Kalamazoo reel on it that was on it when he got it. Reel Pat.is 1698, model C. from Nodewrrior@aol.com Fri Jun 19 21:42:18 1998 Subject: Re:Impregnation from the good advice of a well known maker/friend/guru I did thefollowing:I submerged the glued-up finished (not yet ferruled) blank in a penatratingboat deck varnish called "Deks olje" (pron.Decks olya) for one week. Ipulledthe sections out, wiped off the excess and let harden for a few days.Then clean off the remaining excess with 0000 steel wool and buff with awheel and (I used) yellow rouge to a smooth lustre. Then had a finished rod(okay, the wraps do need more varnish) in 2 days(!)The rod is coming along to Grayrock if anybody who will be there isinterested. Rob Hoffhines from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Jun 19 21:55:42 1998 Subject: Re: Scrap nodes In a message dated 6/19/98 6:05:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time,saltwein@swbell.net writes: Darryl,Would you like to expound on your planing a lot of enamel sidenowadays? You must have followed the discussion from a month agowhen we debated planing power fibers. My conclusion wasif you have a good power fiber depth planing even up to .010to .015 from the enamel side does no harm. In fact it improves the appearance a lot without compromising strength. Darryl from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri Jun 19 22:17:58 1998 with ESMTP id +0000 Subject: Re: Makers Rod 99 No, not hollow built...double built (of course the inner part should bespiraledwhile the exterior isn't). George Bourke ----------From: C.J. Wohlford Subject: Re: Makers Rod 99Date: Friday, June 19, 1998 6:43 PM As well as hallow built and impregnated.Chris SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 6/19/98 3:58:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time,cbogart@shentel.net writes: Gee I was waiting to see if he proposed to have the butt 6sidedmid 5 sided and tips 4 sided while he was on a roll. Don't forget spiraled! Darryl from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Jun 19 22:24:44 1998 Subject: Re: Makers Rod 99 Chris - I have the forms to make it happen - by the way - Folks are alreadygatheringin Grayrock - our European member - Alex - is in the Clubhouse as I type -ButI am here held captive by drying finish - hope to in Grayrock tomorrownight -having onion ring withdrawal symptoms.Hope that all that are coming will have a safe drive Wayne from saweiss@flash.net Fri Jun 19 22:29:18 1998 Subject: Re: Re:Impregnation -----Original Message----- Subject: Re:Impregnation from the good advice of a well known maker/friend/guru I did thefollowing:I submerged the glued-up finished (not yet ferruled) blank in apenatratingboat deck varnish called "Deks olje" (pron.Decks olya) for one week. Ipulledthe sections out, wiped off the excess and let harden for a few days.Then clean off the remaining excess with 0000 steel wool and buff withawheel and (I used) yellow rouge to a smooth lustre. Then had a finishedrod(okay, the wraps do need more varnish) in 2 days(!)The rod is coming along to Grayrock if anybody who will be there isinterested. Rob Hoffhines Rob,have you done a test section and cut it apart to see how much penetrationthere is?Steve Weiss from channer@hubwest.com Fri Jun 19 23:20:57 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A911A3200B6; Fri, 19 Jun 1998 22:22:41 MDT Subject: Re: Scrap nodes At 06:58 PM 6/19/98 EDT, you wrote:I would plane it flat on the enamel side, but then I'vetaken to planing a lot of the enamel side nowadays. Darryl Darryl;Blasphemer!!!Ain't you ashamed??Probably cheat on your taxes, too. Whatareyou trying to do, change the way things are done, or something. All thisprogress makes me sick.BTW, I hope this corruption that seems to haveinfected you hasn't hurt your sense of humor.John (tongue in cheek) Channer from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sat Jun 20 00:01:19 1998 Subject: Re: Impregnation another thing Make sure to use the Deks Olje #2 gloss finish! Rob from saltwein@swbell.net Sat Jun 20 05:59:15 1998 FAA09324 Subject: Re: Scrap nodes You must have followed the discussion from a month agowhen we debated planing power fibers. My conclusion wasif you have a good power fiber depth planing even up to .010to .015 from the enamel side does no harm. In fact it improvesthe appearance a lot without compromising strength. Darryl, Yes, I did follow that thread. Are you planing all of your rods thatway now? Have you fished a rod hard that has been planed that way?It sounds like a good answer to a lot of cane with surface blemishes,but at this point I am too much of a coward to try it. I value youropinion, having picked up some good tips from you, and having made theCattanach 7042 for my first rod. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Jun 20 07:49:06 1998 Subject: Re: Makers Rod 99 Wayne I will be leaving tmw morning and depends on time, traffic and if wegeta wild hair up our butts if we get there late tmw or Monday morning brightand early. As always, looking forward to a good time - haven't heard whatour brew meisters have in store for us yet! Oh yeah, hows the all importanthatch??? Chris On Fri, 19 Jun 1998 23:23:54 EDT, WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: Chris - I have the forms to make it happen - by the way - Folks are alreadygatheringin Grayrock - our European member - Alex - is in the Clubhouse as I type- ButI am here held captive by drying finish - hope to in Grayrock tomorrownight -having onion ring withdrawal symptoms.Hope that all that are coming will have a safe drive Wayne Regards Chris from hhholland@erols.com Sat Jun 20 08:14:30 1998 Subject: Re: Re:Impregnation FYI Years ago, I used Deks Olje on teak trim on boats. I quit using itbecause it tended to darken considerably after 6 months or so in the sun. Arod would not, of course, get this kind of exposure, and it's more thanpossible that the formula has changed from 15 years ago. The stuff DIDgivea good, hard finish. I'll be interested to hear about long-term use.Please keep us posted. BTW, I've also used Epiphanes varnish on boats, andit's pretty good stuff. Hank Holland -----Original Message----- Subject: Re:Impregnation from the good advice of a well known maker/friend/guru I did thefollowing:I submerged the glued-up finished (not yet ferruled) blank in apenatratingboat deck varnish called "Deks olje" (pron.Decks olya) for one week. Ipulledthe sections out, wiped off the excess and let harden for a few days.Then clean off the remaining excess with 0000 steel wool and buff withawheel and (I used) yellow rouge to a smooth lustre. Then had a finishedrod(okay, the wraps do need more varnish) in 2 days(!)The rod is coming along to Grayrock if anybody who will be there isinterested. Rob Hoffhines from hhholland@erols.com Sat Jun 20 08:17:42 1998 Subject: Re: Impregnation another thing Absolutely -- The other stuff is pretty much of an oil finish, and is MUCHdarker. Hank Holland -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Impregnation another thing Make sure to use the Deks Olje #2 gloss finish! Rob from destinycon@mindspring.com Sat Jun 20 09:19:53 1998 Subject: Re: Cracked Varnish at Ferrules At 03:19 PM 6/14/98 EDT, you wrote: from experience this I term as a 'casting fracture' - a ring offracturedvarnish that encircles the rod section. This haunted me for a couple ofyearsbut today there are a couple of ways that the occurance an be reduced.A machinist friend once told me that when machining alunimum thatyoucanneder leave abrupt dropoffs - the material will fracture at these points -Iapplied that to the bamboo ferrule transition - Today I crown the ferruletabs- that is sand the tabs flat wise until the normal square tab look the tabends will actually curve to a point - then flatwise the tabs are alsosandedto gradually blend into nothingness at the points as well. This addsflexureto the ferrule tabs vs the abrupt dropoff if used uncrowned.Additionally when the ferrules are glued on I try to keep the rodsectionin a position so that the glue will sag to fill the void between bamboo andthe ferrule - keep the bamboo end up at all times - wrapping down theferruletabe- in storage as the glue cures the rod section is leaned with thebambooupright - ferrule down.Lastly - Mr Garrison used a thicker threaqd for wrapping the ferruletabs - an a size - the normal for guides is oo. personally I don't do thisbutit could be.Having started using these ideas several years ago I have seen adramaticdifference in the occurrance of casting fractures - you might give these a try. Another thing:The question has come up about reposting or sharing - writings -tapers -others - that has been posted to the Rodmakers list group - My personalfeeling is that the thoughts - ideas -tapers - are up for common use andcanbe reshared by those wanting to - later these same thoughts - ideas - tapersmay appear in other media but there is no concern on my part as any'copyright' concerns - Finally Because of the many requests to be included in the ferrule order bythosenot attending Grayrock 98 - Your request can be added to the order - figureferrule costs at $ 25 for 2 male sets - $ 20 for 1 male sets - then add acouple of bucks to each order for postage - Ferrule requests need to be inby6-20 and will be shipped around 7-1 (needing time to return and recoverfromGrayrock) - ALSO - be sure to include an address for the post office todeliver the ferrules to. Payment can be made after recieving your orders.-However I can not accept VISA.FYI - for those wanting to place large orders - I would suggest thatyoumight contact Bailey Wood Directly - his pricing policy is that yourecieve a40 % discount on orders that are over $500 list price - about $300 net. Jack Pine Rodmaker (Poster) ackward positions (there is an honest explanation) - anyhow - the photohasmade its way to a poster identifying myself as ' Jack Pine Rodmaker' - itis ahumorous photo - I have always said that folks need to laugh atthemselves aswell - this was all done in a very good natured way. In the short timethatthe poster has existed there have been numerous requests to get one - itmayeven be seen in an upcoming issue of The Bamboo Fly Rod mag - Great HUH- Soin good spirit of this the (con) artist Chuck Curro and I have come up withthe idea of making the poster available in it's original size for a smallfee($15) - the thought is to have a limited edition of 100 posters signed bythe(con) artist - with proceeds above the cost of printing going to theGeorgeMason TU chapter for their work around the Grayrock area. They will beavailable at Grayrock or e-mail. I'm sure that when you see the poster youwill sigh with relief that it wasn't yourself in the picture - from destinycon@mindspring.com Sat Jun 20 09:44:14 1998 Subject: Re: Cracked Varnish at Ferrules At 10:24 AM 6/20/98 -0400, you wrote:Sorry, Slip of the finger, please ignore, thank you. from selez@ibm.net Sat Jun 20 11:52:25 1998 (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA75684 for ;Sat, 20 Jun 1998 16:52:22GMT Subject: Re: Ferrules - Calling all ferrules SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 6/10/98 7:54:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time,selez@ibm.netwrites: The last time I was in Bob Marriott's Fly shop (1 week ago), they stillcarried the Rodon/Cortland ferrules. They certainly aren'ton the best seller list there, but are availible nonetheless, andthey do ship anywhere. Maybe we will meet some day, I'm in there just about every other day.I'm on a first name basis with just about all the sales clerks. Yes, they do have the Cortland ferrules, but the males on them areso oversized you have to work for hours to fit them. I don't like themat all. Darryl Hayashida Hi Darryl.....as a matter of fact, I worked at Bob's for about 2 1/2 years until about 1 year ago (changed jobs altogether,still live in Fullerton though). I think I actuallyrecall you coming in with one of your first rods, theGarrison "progessive" taper. I still can't figure out why youchose an SiC stipping guide for that rod as opposed to somethingmore traditional, but to each his own. They've actually left my picture with a Green River Brown on the back of the Travel wall. Thanks for pointing out the flaws on the Cortland ferrules,I was contemplating them, but given this input, think I'll justspend the extra $ and get the Swiss. I've still got quite a wayto go in building my forms et al, so have got lots to contemplate,but maybe some day indeed we will meet there. thanks again,Bill from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Jun 20 12:00:57 1998 Subject: Re: Scrap nodes In a message dated 6/19/98 9:22:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time,channer@hubwest.com writes: Blasphemer!!!Ain't you ashamed??Probably cheat on your taxes, too. Whatareyou trying to do, change the way things are done, or something. All thisprogress makes me sick.BTW, I hope this corruption that seems to haveinfected you hasn't hurt your sense of humor.John (tongue in cheek) Channer No problem! I was laughing after reading the first word. I never takeanythinganybody says on this list as a flame. Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Jun 20 12:08:01 1998 forged)) Subject: Re: Scrap nodes In a message dated 6/20/98 4:00:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time,saltwein@swbell.net writes: Yes, I did follow that thread. Are you planing all of your rods thatway now? Have you fished a rod hard that has been planed that way? I've made three rods like that now, I can't say I've fished any of themhard, but I have put in a few casting sessions at our club's castingpond with one of them. Casting at a casting pond probably increasesthe amount of casts by five times over fishing with it. Haven't caughta big fish with it yet. Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Jun 20 12:24:24 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrules - Calling all ferrules In a message dated 6/20/98 9:58:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time,selez@ibm.netwrites: Hi Darryl.....as a matter of fact, I worked at Bob's for about 2 1/2 years until about 1 year ago (changed jobs altogether,still live in Fullerton though). I think I actuallyrecall you coming in with one of your first rods, theGarrison "progessive" taper. I still can't figure out why youchose an SiC stipping guide for that rod as opposed to somethingmore traditional, but to each his own. That would have been the right time frame, about 3 1/2 to 4 years ago.My first rod is a Garrison taper. There probably aren't many bamboorodmakers in the area. The modern stripping guides work better with the modern lines. Theplastic lines tend to be a little "stickier" than the silk lines. If I owneda silk line I would probably build a rod just for the silk line and usean agate stripping guide and smaller snake guides. I got to casta silk line at the club casting pond once. They are NICE. I wantone now. As soon as I have an extra $185 I'm getting one. Darryl from WayneCatt@aol.com Sat Jun 20 13:27:06 1998 Subject: Re: Makers Rod 99 Chris -Hatch appears to be doing well - finish on rod is a bit lacking yet - taking it with me to finish in Grayrock - needs time to dry Wayne from rclarke@eou.edu Sat Jun 20 14:23:09 1998 Subject: Re: Makers Rod 99 Best wishes from Eastern Oregon to everyone at Grayrock this year. Lookingforward to hearing updates of the goings-on there, and on the ferruleorder. Maybe someone could scan some pics and post them somewhere. Iwould love to see the event electronically if not in person. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu (at work this weekend, but am nearly done with the butt side of my steelform.) ----------From: WayneCatt@aol.com Subject: Re: Makers Rod 99Date: Saturday, June 20, 1998 11:26 AM Chris -Hatch appears to be doing well - finish on rod is a bit lacking yet - taking it with me to finish in Grayrock - needs time to dry Wayne from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Jun 20 14:44:03 1998 Subject: Re: Makers Rod 99 RobertScan? Old Technology - I will bring my digital camera and portablecomputer with me and I am sure we will have some to post - I am sure wecan findsome accomondating home page(Jerry you listening?) to post to - If not Iwill create a new page and put them on mine and post an URL for everyone onrodmakers listserve. Chris On Sat, 20 Jun 1998 12:21:43 -0700, Robert Clarke wrote: Best wishes from Eastern Oregon to everyone at Grayrock this year. Lookingforward to hearing updates of the goings-on there, and on the ferruleorder. Maybe someone could scan some pics and post them somewhere. Iwould love to see the event electronically if not in person. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu (at work this weekend, but am nearly done with the butt side of my steelform.) ----------From: WayneCatt@aol.com Subject: Re: Makers Rod 99Date: Saturday, June 20, 1998 11:26 AM Chris -Hatch appears to be doing well - finish on rod is a bit lacking yet - taking it with me to finish in Grayrock - needs time to dry Wayne Regards Chris from rclarke@eou.edu Sat Jun 20 15:12:54 1998 Subject: Re: Makers Rod 99 ----------From: Chris Bogart Subject: Re: Makers Rod 99Date: Saturday, June 20, 1998 2:54 PM RobertScan? Old Technology - I will bring my digital camera and portablecomputer with me and I am sure we will have some to post - I am surewecan findsome accomondating home page(Jerry you listening?) to post to - If not Iwill create a new page and put them on mine and post an URL for everyone onrodmakerslistserve. I'll volunteer a page as well if needed. So I am a little out of date. Idon't even have a scanner yet! Have fun. Robert from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sat Jun 20 22:30:18 1998 mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net(InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with ESMTP +0000 Subject: Out of Date (Was Re: Makers Rod 99) Robert, Actually you're not "out of date". Unless you own a Sinar-Leaf digitalcamera, AND are willing to lug around a computer, AND don't mind onlybeing able to take one photo every 3 minutes, you will get higher quality(and cheaper) from a $50 35mm camera and a refurbished Nikon LS-20film scanner at $600. You'll get 2700 dpi OPTICAL scan quality (notinterpolated),30 bit color depth, and save about $125,000 over the Sinar-Leaf. For$1000in digital camera bucks, you only get about 1024x768 pixels vs.2700x4050forthe $650 conventional / film scanner option. George Bourke ----------From: Robert Clarke Subject: Re: Makers Rod 99Date: Saturday, June 20, 1998 1:11 PM I'll volunteer a page as well if needed. So I am a little out of date. Idon't even have a scanner yet! Have fun. Robert from channer@hubwest.com Sun Jun 21 07:11:09 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A8C1F4100CC; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 06:12:49 MDT Subject: ferrule tabs Good Morning Everyone!And a fine morning it is, too. I get to go fishing today after 3 weeks. Iwas wondering what the concensus is on ferrule tabs, center on the flats,or fold over the corners? Also, any more thoughts on preventing wrapcracksat the base of the ferrule? As always, all ideas are greatly appreciated.Iwish I could join all you independently wealthy types in Grayrock, but Ihave to stay home and make a living, I'll just have to console myself witha short excursion to the Juan today. Have fun at the gathering!John Channer from anglport@con2.com Sun Jun 21 07:51:58 1998 Subject: Re: Makers Rod 99 At 12:21 PM 6/20/98 -0700, you wrote:Best wishes from Eastern Oregon to everyone at Grayrock this year. Lookingforward to hearing updates of the goings-on there, and on the ferruleorder. Maybe someone could scan some pics and post them somewhere. Iwould love to see the event electronically if not in person. Robert Clarke Ditto from the Eastern contingent. I'd love to be able to experience thefestivities vicariously!Art from watson@cape-consult.co.uk Sun Jun 21 08:27:43 1998 (BST) Subject: Re: blackening brass ferrules You need Birchwood Casey's 'Brass Black'. Its normally found at goodGunsmiths.Hope this helpsTim. ----------Dear friends! Any ideas/experience for blackening brass ferrules? Thanks Stefan-- S. Grau`s atelier edelweissGespliesste Angelruten/Split Cane RodsSwiss Flyfishing Schoolhttp://www.BuchLang.com/~grau Adresse:Brunnadernstr. 11 CH - 3006 BerneTel: ++41 (0) 31 352 42 88 ab 19.00/ from 7.PME-Mail: gespliesst@bluewin.ch from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sun Jun 21 10:31:38 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.1); Sun,21Jun 1998 11:34:22 -0400 Subject: Scared Varnish.... you all even though I seem to remember some discussion a while back. What would/could cause varnish to run from the corners to the middle of the flat. I dipped a rod last night for the second time and in certain places the varnish crept away from the corners in the same spot all the way around the rod. Could be worse I suppose, they could be drip marks. Jon Lintvet8602 Wild Olive StreetPotomac, MD 20854(800) 836-7558(301) 340-0194 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Jun 21 11:53:54 1998 Subject: Re: Scared Varnish.... In a message dated 6/21/98 8:34:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time,jlintvet@clarityconnect.com writes: What would/could cause varnish to run from the corners to the middle of the flat. I dipped a rod last night for the second time and in certain places the varnish crept away from the corners in the same spot all the way around the rod. Silicone in some form. I got the same thing from a rod that I tapedthe guides on to test cast, and I had just cleaned my fly line. Thecleaner contained silicone oil and got transferred from the line tothe rod. Others on the list have warned against using an old teeshirt. Seems like fabric softener contains silicone also. Someoneon the list warned against using tack cloths - those treated clothsthat are used to pick up dust. Seems like the wax in them canmess up a finish also. Wipe down a rod with mineral spirits (paintthinner) first before you apply the finish. Darryl Hayashida from flyrod@artistree.com Sun Jun 21 14:18:19 1998 MAA28765 Subject: Re:Impregnation question mac-creator="4D4F5353" Eric,Just off hand, I know of 3 sources of printed material that might helpyou in your quest: 1) There is an article in the book "The Best of The Planing Form." Hassome chemicals & sources listed.2) Patent Number - 2,352,740 (The Bakelite Corporation's method ofImpregnating Bamboo)3) Patent Number - 1,617,951 (W. D. Jordan's method of ImpregnatedBambooRod Building) Patent Office phone number is 703-305-4350. Cost $3.00 ea. Best Regards,Chris Wohlford Koehler, Eric wrote: Oh, the impregnation worked nicely too... Since you brought it up: I'm wanting to do a little impregnationexperimentation (hold the obvious jokes please)... Can someone tellme/point me to a good resource where I can learn about techniques,equipment, and chemicals? I have no info at all on the topic, so anyinput would be helpful. Thanks in advance,Eck eric.koehler@meissner-wurst.com"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it'stoo dark to read." Groucho Marx from swilson1@WHC.NET Sun Jun 21 17:25:41 1998 ; Subject: rodmaking I'm new at this, and haven't made a rod yet; therefore, these are thefirst of what will likely be hundreds of questions. First, I have a setof Frank Armbruster's planing forms. I have heard of tuning them using atriangle file epoxied to a piece of plexiglas. Where can I find thespecific instructions for doing so? Second, I now have two makers'preferred bevels for their plane blades 30Ÿ (Cattanach) and 45Ÿ(Howell). The latter would probably reduce tear-out with increasedeffort. Any recommendations? Third, is there and unwanted Conoverscraper anywhere? (I realize it's not necessary, but it's a fine lookingpiece of equipment). I've never used the internet, so bear with me if Iscrewed up. from flyrod@artistree.com Sun Jun 21 20:01:53 1998 SAA09992 Subject: Re: rodmaking Scott, In regard to the Conover Scraper although I haven't seen that exactbrand there is a mini brass & rosewood scraper out there that is verysimilar. I know The Japan Woodworker (1-800-537-7820) andGarrettWade(1-800-221-2942) carry them from $25 to $35. Think Japan has bestprice.Best Regards,Chris Wohlford Scott Wilson wrote: I'm new at this, and haven't made a rod yet; therefore, these are thefirst of what will likely be hundreds of questions. First, I have a setof Frank Armbruster's planing forms. I have heard of tuning them using atriangle file epoxied to a piece of plexiglas. Where can I find thespecific instructions for doing so? Second, I now have two makers'preferred bevels for their plane blades 30Ÿ (Cattanach) and 45Ÿ(Howell). The latter would probably reduce tear-out with increasedeffort. Any recommendations? Third, is there and unwanted Conoverscraper anywhere? (I realize it's not necessary, but it's a fine lookingpiece of equipment). I've never used the internet, so bear with me if Iscrewed up. from sats@gte.net Sun Jun 21 20:40:29 1998 Subject: FERRULES where are they? I've got Jan's Netcraft, Cabella's rod building and Anglers workshopcatalogs. Cabella's doesn't list any, Anglers workshop lists the good ones and the cheep ones (inexpensiveones??) Jan's Netcraft has only the cheep ones. Where are the "not too expensive, not too cheep" ferules coming from? Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from saweiss@flash.net Sun Jun 21 21:26:08 1998 Subject: Re: rodmaking -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: rodmakingScott Wilson wrote: Third, is there and unwanted Conover scraper anywhere? (I realize it'snotnecessary, but it's a fine lookingpiece of equipment). I've never used the internet, so bear with me if Iscrewed up. Scott,Try Munro Tools on the Rodmakers site.Jon Lintvet sells them.Steve Weiss from ragnarig@integrityol.com Sun Jun 21 22:48:09 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A5D315F50064; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 20:56:03 PDT Subject: Re: FERRULES where are they? Where are the "not too expensive, not too cheep" ferules coming from? Terry "Sunfish" Kirkpatrick Terry The problem seems to be that the "middle range" ferrules (Super Z) areonlya couple bucks cheaper than the "top line" product (Super Swiss) and areworth somewhat less than that. I seem to recall there once being muchmoreprice difference and it made more sense for the amateur to get the Zs. I generally make my own, so the extra material which must be removed tofitthe Super Z ferrules (about 2/1000) doesn't bother me too much, but sincethe Super Swiss is such a little bit more money, I think it really makessense to get the easier product to work with. With the Super Z, I think, it's a lot easier to get carried away and cut offtoo much, and less evenly. And most people seem to think the Swiss arebetter looking anyway. Don't ask me what I think. If there were any reallygood alternatives I'd not be getting leg cramps standing in front of a lathe Good luck,Davy from FLYROD777@aol.com Sun Jun 21 23:04:46 1998 Subject: Re: Payne Thread # Chris Still interested. Will you be at Grayling? Let me know the cost. Mark Hallowell from FLYROD777@aol.com Sun Jun 21 23:10:48 1998 Subject: GRAYLING ROAD TRIP To the Chicago rodbuilders, I will be heading out to Grayling on Thursday evening. Want to make theFriday culm splitting/knife throwing party. If you need a ride please letmeknow of line. Mark Hallowell847-688-1330 (h)688-2429 (w) from destinycon@mindspring.com Mon Jun 22 07:28:26 1998 Subject: Re: rodmaking Scott, At 03:28 PM 6/21/98 -0700, you wrote:I have heard of tuning them using atriangle file epoxied to a piece of plexiglas. Where can I find thespecific instructions for doing so? Thomas Penrose's page will answer this question. I've misplaced his newURL and Jerry hasn't updated yet so someone else will have to give it toyou. Second, I now have two makers'preferred bevels for their plane blades 30Ÿ (Cattanach) and 45Ÿ(Howell). The latter would probably reduce tear-out with increasedeffort. Any recommendations? I use 30* (blade stays sharp longer without to much drag). I believe the~general~ feeling of the list is the same. Although I have never tried 45*it seems the drag would be more than I would like to deal with. Thearchives from last month or the month before has a week or two longdiscussion about bevel angles and everyone's thoughts. Read that, then tryboth and see what you prefer.Gary H from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Jun 22 09:29:47 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.1); Mon,22Jun 1998 10:32:11 -0400 Subject: Re: rodmaking Not to advertise, but I sell them and I beat both places in terms of pice. Scott, In regard to the Conover Scraper although I haven't seen that exactbrand there is a mini brass & rosewood scraper out there that is verysimilar. I know The Japan Woodworker (1-800-537-7820) andGarrettWade(1-800-221-2942) carry them from $25 to $35. Think Japan has bestprice.Best Regards,Chris Wohlford Scott Wilson wrote: I'm new at this, and haven't made a rod yet; therefore, these are thefirst of what will likely be hundreds of questions. First, I have a setof Frank Armbruster's planing forms. I have heard of tuning them usingatriangle file epoxied to a piece of plexiglas. Where can I find thespecific instructions for doing so? Second, I now have two makers'preferred bevels for their plane blades 30Ÿ (Cattanach) and 45Ÿ(Howell). The latter would probably reduce tear-out with increasedeffort. Any recommendations? Third, is there and unwanted Conoverscraper anywhere? (I realize it's not necessary, but it's a fine lookingpiece of equipment). I've never used the internet, so bear with me if Iscrewed up. Jon Lintvet8602 Wild Olive StreetPotomac, MD 20854(800) 836-7558(301) 340-0194 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Mon Jun 22 11:42:56 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id LAA01952 for; Mon, (8.8.4/8.6.8) with SMTP idLAA10035 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:42:54 Subject: Re: Staggering (Was:Cracked Varnish at Ferrules) If the nodes are the toughest spots, then why do you avoid nodesright at the ferrule or the tip? I think nodes are like knots in wood. They may be the toughest spot,or they may be the weakest, or the most brittle. You just never know.Especially after they are rasped, heated, vised, filed, sanded, planedand scraped. The Hex hatch in Wisconsin has been fickle. Hope you Grayrockers havebetter. On the last day of my vacation, some kid that worked on a DNRshocking crew told me where I should have been fishing. That kind of cruelty should be prohibited by the Geneva convention.........................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Thu, 18 Jun 1998 SalarFly@aol.com wrote: Nodes aren't weak spots. As someone else noted, take a strip byeach end, bend it until it breaks. It won't be a node that breaks. Darryl from donkovach@email.msn.com Mon Jun 22 13:29:16 1998 SMTPSVC;Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:28:41 -0700 Subject: Re: Staggering (Was:Cracked Varnish at Ferrules) Maybe this is stupid or overly simplistic, but if the nodes are thestrongest section of the bamboo, why do they require staggering (otherthanaesthetics). Maybe I've missed the boat on this, but I was under theimpression that the concept of staggering nodes is to theoretically avoid aweak rod section. Don Kovach------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------- If the nodes are the toughest spots, then why do you avoid nodesright at the ferrule or the tip? I think nodes are like knots in wood. They may be the toughest spot,or they may be the weakest, or the most brittle. You just never know.Especially after they are rasped, heated, vised, filed, sanded, planedand scraped. The Hex hatch in Wisconsin has been fickle. Hope you Grayrockers havebetter. On the last day of my vacation, some kid that worked on a DNRshocking crew told me where I should have been fishing. That kind ofcruelty should be prohibited by the Geneva convention.........................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Thu, 18 Jun 1998 SalarFly@aol.com wrote: Nodes aren't weak spots. As someone else noted, take a strip byeach end, bend it until it breaks. It won't be a node that breaks. Darryl from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon Jun 22 14:04:18 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA240562254; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 12:04:14 -0700 Subject: Re: Staggering (Was:Cracked Varnish at Ferrules) The test of taking a single strip and flexing it to the breaking point was the method used to decide which area was weakest. Everyone who triedthis reported that the break occurred not at a node but in a power fiber area. In a single strip I would guess the node area is stiffer, but not necessarily stronger due to the incongruity of the fibers. I wonder what the results would be if you flexed to the breaking point with the pith side up. We might get different results if we flex a completed rod to the breaking point to determine if the break occurred at node areas or power areas. This would better take into account compression as well as stretch with the five other splines and their relative postion and angles accounted for. Someone could take a spiral node rod section, a 3X3 spaced section, and a section where all the nodes were lined up and flex them to the breaking point to see where the break occurred. I personally don't care enough to snap a bunch of rods, although my wife might think that's cool. I like 3X3 node spacing for cosmetic purposes, but I've never broke a bamboo rod regardless of the spacing style. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Mon Jun 22 14:17:46 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id OAA04809 for; Mon, (8.8.4/8.6.8) with SMTP idOAA23640 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:17:43 Subject: Re: Staggering (Was:Cracked Varnish at Ferrules) How were the nodes treated before the test? Were they heated andpressed or just filed flat? Was the strip planed to a triangularcross section? Was the entire strip heat-treated? On Mon, 22 Jun 1998, CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: The test of taking a single strip and flexing it to the breaking point was the method used to decide which area was weakest. Everyone who triedthis reported that the break occurred not at a node but in a power fiber area. from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon Jun 22 14:42:42 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA019934559; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 12:42:39 -0700 Subject: Re: Staggering (Was:Cracked Varnish at Ferrules) How were the nodes treated before the test? Were they heated andpressed or >just filed flat? Was the strip planed to a triangular cross section? Was the >entire strip heat-treated? All very good points Frank. A few posts were made regarding where single splines broke. I remember the consensus was that they didn't break on the nodes, but don't know the details of how the nodes were treated and prepared. I assume that somewhere in bamboo rod making literature and historythere must have been some tests done that confirm the reasons for node staggering. Either that or assumptions were made about the incongruent fibers being weak areas. Some of the mass produced rods like Horrocks Ibbotson, Montague, orSouth Bend show nodes in alignment next to each other. On the higher end rods you won't find this. It makes sense in my mind that node areas should be separated, but I don't know if extensive testing has been done to prove this. At least I havn't seen any test data on this listserv. Those that have read all the literature might be able to point out a source of test data and results, if there is one. Does anyone know of a source for this type of testing or is node staggering all basic woodworking/grassworking common sense assumptions? Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from eestlow@srminc.com Mon Jun 22 15:04:50 1998 1998)) id 8625662B.006D9C3F; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:57:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Staggering Perhaps, since nodes are stiffer than the surrounding material, one reasonto stagger them might be to avoid stiff points in the rod. It might be akinto having a dozen ferrules in a rod, at least from a stiffness point ofview. -Ed Estlow from tom@cet-inc.com Mon Jun 22 15:15:04 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Staggering (Was:Cracked Varnish at Ferrules) The discussion on nodes has concentrated on their effect on the strengthofrod sections. Whether they are stronger or weaker than non-node areas,theymay affect the "action" of a rod section. Even in cheaper production rodsasmentioned by Chris, we don't usually think of those rods breaking a lotbecause of their node spacing. They were "cheaper" for other reasons. Itseems to me that taking the time to use strips from the same culm, in thesame arrangement as they were in that culm, and node spacing are all doneto"enhance" or control rod action and show attention to detail that goes witha top end product as compared to a "production" rod. Maybe we shoulddiscusswhich node pattern might impact rod action or splines. I've never usedanything but a 3x3 alignment and most times cannot find a definite spline. I was preparing this note when Ed's message came in. I think we're bothhaving similar thoughts. Tom Whittle----------From: "CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL" Subject: Re: Staggering (Was:Cracked Varnish at Ferrules)Date: Mon, Jun 22, 1998, 2:39 PM It makes sense in my mind that node areas should be separated, but Idon't know if extensive testing has been done to prove this. At least I havn't seen any test data on this listserv. Those that have read all the literature might be able to point out a source of test data and results, if there is one. Does anyone know of a source for this type of testing or is node staggering all basic woodworking/grassworking common sense assumptions? Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from flyrod@artistree.com Mon Jun 22 15:31:37 1998 NAA05823 Subject: Re: Staggering mac-creator="4D4F5353" Ed, I like your thinking. Also thought this might be of interest. Staggeringas described, or better yet prescribed, in "Idyl of the Split Bamboo" is asfollows. "...slipping the joints or knots. This means simply that at no circumferenceof the completed joint should knots be found opposite to each other; thusevery weak spot, as indicated by the situation of a knot, is supported bysolid, long- fibered enamel all the way around the remainder of the rod atthispoint. This staggered construction is the American usual and preferablepractice, although we know of one of the most famed of British makerswhosystematically puts three knots in line but on alternate faces of hisjoints.Probably he thinks that a more subtly harmonious action of the rod istherebyachieved." This has been going on a long time. Chris Wohlford eestlow@srminc.com wrote: Perhaps, since nodes are stiffer than the surrounding material, onereasonto stagger them might be to avoid stiff points in the rod. It might be akinto having a dozen ferrules in a rod, at least from a stiffness point ofview. -Ed Estlow from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Jun 22 15:42:38 1998 Subject: Broken rod (Was:Re: Staggering (Was:Cracked Varnish at Ferrules)) In a message dated 6/22/98 12:10:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time,mcdowellc@lanecc.edu writes: We might get different results if we flex a completed rod to the breaking point to determine if the break occurred at node areas or power areas. This would better take into account compression as well asstretch with the five other splines and their relative postion and angles accounted for. Someone could take a spiral node rod section, a 3X3 spaced section, anda section where all the nodes were lined up and flex them to the breaking point to see where the break occurred. The only rod I've seen broken while in use and not slammed in a doorwas a spinning rod I made for my mother. My son was using it at the time with a spinner. He got it hung up on the bottom, and tried to get it loose by yanking back on it with the rod. Only the top spline broke,about an inch below the ferrule, and it wasn't at a node. Darryl from flyrod@artistree.com Mon Jun 22 22:36:07 1998 UAA16366 Subject: Testing... mac-creator="4D4F5353" Sorry.. from jwilcox@netsync.net Mon Jun 22 23:09:37 1998 quartz.netsync.net(8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA13294 for ;Tue, 23 Jun 1998 00:09:30-0400 Subject: guide spacing archives boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01BD9E3B.19D09100" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BD9E3B.19D09100 guys, here's an idea i'd like to present to the group. i particularly =liked the idea of sharing the guide spacings for a rod as well as the =taper(re: the payne 104 that was recently shared). it's relatively easy =to find the tapers for a classic rod. sure we can wrap the guides =someplace on the rod that will work, but it probably won't be what the =original builder had in mind. for example, several tapers were recently =shared based on wayne's 7 footer. what are the suggested guide spacings = well. many of us have classic rods, or maybe we have a set of spacings =that works particularly well. i for one would be happy to grab a ruler =and measure the guide spacings to share with everyone. jim wilcox, =fredonia,ny ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BD9E3B.19D09100 sharing the guide spacings for a rod as well as the taper(re: the payne = = work, but it probably won't be what the original builder had in = example, several tapers were recently shared based on wayne's 7 = = would be happy to grab a ruler and measure the guide spacings to share = fredonia,ny ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BD9E3B.19D09100-- from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Tue Jun 23 00:22:43 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with ESMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Staggering (Was:Cracked Varnish at Ferrules) I'd always heard that it was to avoid "flat spots" (in the deflection curveof the rod) due to having an area of very dissimilar properties (i.e., allthe nodes in one spot). George Bourke ----------From: Donald Kovach Subject: Re: Staggering (Was:Cracked Varnish at Ferrules)Date: Monday, June 22, 1998 11:26 AM Maybe this is stupid or overly simplistic, but if the nodes are thestrongest section of the bamboo, why do they require staggering (otherthanaesthetics). Maybe I've missed the boat on this, but I was under theimpression that the concept of staggering nodes is to theoretically avoidaweak rod section. Don Kovach ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------ If the nodes are the toughest spots, then why do you avoid nodesright at the ferrule or the tip? I think nodes are like knots in wood. They may be the toughest spot,or they may be the weakest, or the most brittle. You just never know.Especially after they are rasped, heated, vised, filed, sanded, planedand scraped. The Hex hatch in Wisconsin has been fickle. Hope you Grayrockers havebetter. On the last day of my vacation, some kid that worked on a DNRshocking crew told me where I should have been fishing. That kind ofcruelty should be prohibited by the Geneva convention.........................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Thu, 18 Jun 1998 SalarFly@aol.com wrote: Nodes aren't weak spots. As someone else noted, take a strip byeach end, bend it until it breaks. It won't be a node that breaks. Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Jun 23 00:49:26 1998 Subject: Re: Staggering (Was:Cracked Varnish at Ferrules) In a message dated 6/22/98 10:23:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time, irish- george@worldnet.att.net writes: I'd always heard that it was to avoid "flat spots" (in the deflection curveof the rod) due to having an area of very dissimilar properties (i.e., allthe nodes in one spot). In that case the Garrison staggering method is the best? Darryl Hayashida from rcurry@top.monad.net Tue Jun 23 06:04:38 1998 Subject: Re: guide spacing archives Jim,I don't know how valuable that would be since optimum guide spacingreally depends on the qualities of the individual rod. Two rods made bydifferent people, using different adhesives, but the same taper, mightsupport different line sizes and require different guide spacing.On another note, has anyone made a rod from a production maker'staper(Payne, Thomas, etc) and then compared at 1" intervals to the original?Best regards,Reed from donkovach@email.msn.com Tue Jun 23 15:08:15 1998 SMTPSVC;Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:07:31 -0700 Subject: TEST boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD9EC0.BAD9FE80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD9EC0.BAD9FE80 1..2..3.. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD9EC0.BAD9FE80 1..2..3.. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD9EC0.BAD9FE80-- from dhaftel@att.com Tue Jun 23 15:27:12 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2 sol2) (5.5.1960.3) Subject: Test Sorry folks. I haven't seen a single post all day and was wondering if everyone's busilyworking/fishing/building, or did I get kicked off again!??!?? Dennis Haftel from MICK@welfen-netz.com Tue Jun 23 15:50:44 1998 [195.143.56.1] with SMTP(MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Tue, 23 Jun1998 22:55:29 +0200 Subject: Re: Test you're still on :)Michael Haftel, Dennis Jay wrote: Sorry folks. I haven't seen a single post all day and was wondering if everyone'sbusilyworking/fishing/building, or did I get kicked off again!??!?? Dennis Haftel from geraldb@pennwell.com Tue Jun 23 16:14:20 1998 Subject: Construction environments I've not yet built a rod but from what I've read (this list and one book)the construction environment is fairly important to the scheme of things.Ineed someone to elaborate please. In short (as I understand it) there's the splitting, the roughing, thetapering, the binding, then the finishing of the constructed blank. Thereare a lot of things missing in that abbreviated process, I know. But, atwhat point does the construction environment really become critical? I get the impression that humidity is important to keep under control...Well, I live in Tulsa OK where when Houston has too much water in the airitall comes here to settle. My work area is destined to be in a detachedgarage with plenty of outside air circulating into it (not sealed well atall). This means a good deal of humidity, dust, etc moving about. Not an So, given that scenarion how much of my work can get done in the nastyolegarage before I have to go elsewhere where the environment is morefavorable? Or, is everyone else finding ways of working around a similarproblem? Thanks. (I'm just getting started so it's as good a time as any toask the goofball questions I guess) Gerald Buckley from KLIPSICH@aol.com Tue Jun 23 17:01:39 1998 Subject: To whom it may concern To whom it may concern: We have received all the information we need from your dailyreports. Please take us off your mailing list.Thank you. KLIPSICH@AOL.Com from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Jun 23 17:14:39 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA241410075; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 15:14:35 -0700 Subject: Summer Projects Since the mail is slow I'm interested in what rod projects some of you are working on. I'm planning to build an 8' Paul Young Para-15 and a 6'3" Paul Young Midge as soon as I'm finished with the following. 1)Put in a backyard over worthless clay that scores 10 on the Rockwell Hardness Scale.2)Host a Garage Sale for everyone else's junk.3)Replace the fence boards my soon to be deceased dog chewed through. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Tue Jun 23 18:03:37 1998 Subject: Rod Hoffhines Rod -As long as you're bringing the pregant rod to Grayrock... how aboutbringing alog the PY Driggs too?? Great rod!!! I'd love to cast it again(need to build one this winter). Dennis from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Tue Jun 23 18:03:43 1998 Subject: Thread Colors for Flamed Rods John-So far so good... I just fininshed a 1930"s Granger that had the mid andboth tips delaminated...It's all back together and I used the Griffith'sfly tying head cement for a color preserver because I couldn't find anything else that gave me the color I wanted . The standard color preserverlooked too matt/flat, (lacked the silkyness of real silk) . No preserverwas too transparent ...not right. I wanted to try a "brushing lacquer" butcouldn't find one in my local paint store ...so... I deceided that headcements and nail polishes were really "brushing lacquers under a differentname and tried it. The test sample turned out fine and didn't crack,peel,or discolor. So......to date ... my test rod turned out great ..no varnishleaking under the wraps and while it's only been lawn cast (a lot) so farno cracks (also no cracks in the test piece that I manhandled by bendinginto a "U" and rotating.. No promises, but it looks ok, so far... Next isSally Hanson's Hard as Nails...all these lacquers were designed to beflexable,hard and prety impervious to water..so I think they might beworthinvestigating. The old Granger looks good and so far no cracking ..I'llhave it @ Grayrock so the experts can review it and we'l see what theresulting opinions are.. Regards, Dennis from LECLAIR123@aol.com Tue Jun 23 18:58:04 1998 Subject: Re: Test I'm reading you ok. Dave LeClair from channer@hubwest.com Tue Jun 23 19:26:13 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A80A7E500B2; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 18:27:54 MDT Subject: Re: To whom it may concern At 05:53 PM 6/23/98 EDT, you wrote: To whom it may concern: We have received all the information we need from your dailyreports. Please take us off your mailing list.Thank you. KLIPSICH@AOL.Com Send a message to "listproc@wugate.wustl.edu" subject"unsubscribe"message"unsubscribe rodmakers" followed by your name. from sjstill@indy.net Tue Jun 23 19:35:52 1998 Subject: FERRULES - found some Hi Terry, Found a source of ferrules - Rick's Rods in Colorado We have thousands of older Wright & McGill and Phillipson ferrules. Whatsizesdo you need? They are $35. per pair. [this was his reply to me] I saw his web site at the Rodmakers site. His URL is; http://www.ricksrods.com/main.html Hope this helps, Steve Steve Stillabower from channer@hubwest.com Tue Jun 23 19:38:42 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AAF3A1E00F8; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 18:40:19 MDT Subject: Re: Summer Projects At 03:01 PM 6/23/98 PDT, you wrote:Since the mail is slow I'm interested in what rod projects some of youare working on. I'm planning to build an 8' Paul Young Para-15 and a 6'3" Paul Young Midge as soon as I'm finished with the following. 1)Put in a backyard over worthless clay that scores 10 on the Rockwell Hardness Scale.2)Host a Garage Sale for everyone else's junk.3)Replace the fence boards my soon to be deceased dog chewed through. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu Chris;Skip all that unproductive crap and get right to work on the Midge, Ibuilt one and I really like it. Now I just have to figure out a way I canafford to keep it before the local fly shop sells it. Some tips on theother projects: #1- water the hell out of it; something green will growthere eventually.#2- Get one of those someone elses to have the damnedgarage sale, your yard is too unattractive. #3- If your dog is still alive,why put up nice new fence boards for the common S.O.B. to just chew themup. See, you can rationalize your way out of anything if you just try. Havefun building the rods, anyway. I'm working on an 8'6" 4wt. for a customerat the moment. I'm using the Granger Aristocrat taper in the archives,electronically altered to be a 4wt. I can't wait to get the ferrules gluedand the guides taped on so I can try it out, I have never cast a Grangerbefore and I want to see how this one works. So far it is almost(but notquite) dead on the taper. Talk to you John Channer from sjstill@indy.net Tue Jun 23 19:43:37 1998 Subject: Re: FERRULES - found some OOPS, I meant that to go to Terry privately! Sorry. Steve Steve Stillabower from channer@hubwest.com Tue Jun 23 19:52:37 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AE36A3800F8; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 18:54:14 MDT Subject: Re: Thread Colors for Flamed Rods At 06:59 PM 6/23/98 -0400, you wrote:John-So far so good... I just fininshed a 1930"s Granger that had the mid andboth tips delaminated...It's all back together and I used the Griffith'sfly tying head cement for a color preserver because I couldn't find anything else that gave me the color I wanted . The standard color preserverlooked too matt/flat, (lacked the silkyness of real silk) . No preserverwas too transparent ...not right. I wanted to try a "brushing lacquer" butcouldn't find one in my local paint store ...so... I deceided that headcements and nail polishes were really "brushing lacquers under adifferentname and tried it. The test sample turned out fine and didn't crack,peel,or discolor. So......to date ... my test rod turned out great ..no varnishleaking under the wraps and while it's only been lawn cast (a lot) so farno cracks (also no cracks in the test piece that I manhandled by bendinginto a "U" and rotating.. No promises, but it looks ok, so far... Next isSally Hanson's Hard as Nails...all these lacquers were designed to beflexable,hard and prety impervious to water..so I think they might beworthinvestigating. The old Granger looks good and so far no cracking ..I'llhave it @ Grayrock so the experts can review it and we'l see what theresulting opinions are.. Regards, Dennis Dennis:Sounds interesting. I have never used Griffiths, what do you thin it with?If it thins with laquer thinner, it probably is some form of laquer. Othertypes of head cement thin with alcohol and they are water basedpolyurethane. What the nail polishes that thin with acetone are, I couldn'ttell you. I don't use head cement much, size 24's don't really need it andon the rare ocassion I ty something bigger than 20 I use some of the quartof laquer that I have no other use for. Don't bother with regular laquer ona rod you are going to fish, it will just crack, at least it does for me.If I ever get around to building another rod for myself, I am going to doeach wrap a different way and try out some of these tips I have beengetting. Weren't you making noise about coming out to the San Juan a while back?If you are still coming, the water level is back down to 1000cfs or lessand the fish are hongry. I caught a bunch on dry midges Sunday. John Channer from ragnarig@integrityol.com Tue Jun 23 20:49:04 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id ACB3A820102; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 18:56:03 PDT Subject: Re: Thread Colors for Flamed Rods I used the Griffith'sfly tying head cement for a color preserver because I couldn't find anything else that gave me the color I wanted . Thanks, Dennis That had not ocurred to me but I'm going to try it out on a couple ofsamples. I'll bet it works fine! Davy from sats@gte.net Tue Jun 23 21:44:59 1998 Subject: Re: Thread Colors for Flamed Rods ...so... I deceided that headcements and nail polishes were really "brushing lacquers under adifferentname and tried it. The test sample turned out fine and didn't crack,peel,or discolor. So......to date ... my test rod turned out great ..no varnish "Hard as nails" seems to work fairly well. I thin it with lacquer thinner and it seems to take it okay. I've been wondering about some of the "art store" products.I had an acrylic gloss, that looked like school past. you could thin it withwater to almost any consistency. Once dry it WAS water proof. (being atype ofplastic.) Would it work on rods? While I'm on the subject. I'm restoring a 9ft Shakespeare. Almost pure. I applied the varnish to the bare bamboo and let it dry for about a week. NowI'm wrapping and will varnish the wraps. What's drying time? About the same? --Terry KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from flyfisher@nextdim.com Tue Jun 23 22:37:49 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id A2C01098016E; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 20:30:08 PDT Subject: Re: Thread Colors for Flamed Rods Terry the secret is thin the first coat about 50/50 with water and reallysaturate the wrapping completely so that it penetrates all the way to therod not just on the wrappings.Dell Coppock,"IN THE GREAT NORTHWEST"http://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail flyfisher@nextdim.com- ----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Thread Colors for Flamed Rods ...so... I deceided that headcements and nail polishes were really "brushing lacquers under adifferentname and tried it. The test sample turned out fine and didn't crack,peel,or discolor. So......to date ... my test rod turned out great ..no varnish "Hard as nails" seems to work fairly well. I thin it with lacquer thinner and it seems to take it okay. I've been wondering about some of the "art store" products.I had an acrylic gloss, that looked like school past. you could thin itwithwater to almost any consistency. Once dry it WAS water proof. (being atype ofplastic.) Would it work on rods? While I'm on the subject. I'm restoring a 9ft Shakespeare. Almost pure. I applied the varnish to the bare bamboo and let it dry for about a week.NowI'm wrapping and will varnish the wraps. What's drying time? About the same? --Terry KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from dickay@alltel.net Tue Jun 23 22:53:43 1998 WAA04980 Subject: Re: FERRULES - found some Steve I won't tell anybody. But thanks for the information. Dick Fuhrman ----------From: Steve Stillabower Subject: Re: FERRULES - found someDate: Tuesday, June 23, 1998 7:44 PM OOPS, I meant that to go to Terry privately! Sorry. Steve Steve Stillabower from jfoster@gte.net Wed Jun 24 00:37:27 1998 Subject: homepage mac-creator="4D4F5353" I have updated Tom Penrose's home page url.. regards Jerry from jcole10@juno.com Wed Jun 24 05:50:20 1998 06:49:24 EDT Subject: Re: homepage Jerry How do you get into Tom Penruse's page. Thanks in advance. Gone toGrayrock! John ColeOn Wed, 24 Jun 1998 00:14:18 -0500 Jerry Foster writes:I have updated Tom Penrose's home page url.. regards Jerry _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from saltwein@swbell.net Wed Jun 24 06:20:47 1998 GAA08453 Subject: Re: Summer Projects I am working on an 8 foot C.C. de France. I have used John's techniqueof rationalizing to put off the necessary house repairs. I did put anew sink and faucet in the bathroom, that bought me a little time. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from channer@hubwest.com Wed Jun 24 06:48:34 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A7F6E5000FE; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 05:50:14 MDT Subject: Re: Summer Projects At 06:22 AM 6/24/98 -0500, you wrote:I am working on an 8 foot C.C. de France. I have used John's techniqueof rationalizing to put off the necessary house repairs. I did put anew sink and faucet in the bathroom, that bought me a little time. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Steve;Good for you! We have to keep our prioritys in the proper order. John Channer from dpeaston@wzrd.com Wed Jun 24 06:52:34 1998 mail.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) "INTERNET:rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Thread Colors for Flamed Rods At 06:59 PM 6/23/98 -0400, dennis higham wrote:John-So far so good... I just fininshed a 1930"s Granger that had the mid andboth tips delaminated...It's all back together and I used the Griffith'sfly tying head cement for a color preserver because I couldn't find anything else that gave me the color I wanted . The standard color preserverlooked too matt/flat, (lacked the silkyness of real silk) . No preserverwas too transparent ...not right. I wanted to try a "brushing lacquer" butcouldn't find one in my local paint store ...so... I deceided that headcements and nail polishes were really "brushing lacquers under adifferentname and tried it. The test sample turned out fine and didn't crack,peel,or discolor. So......to date ... my test rod turned out great ..no varnishleaking under the wraps and while it's only been lawn cast (a lot) so farno cracks (also no cracks in the test piece that I manhandled by bendinginto a "U" and rotating.. No promises, but it looks ok, so far... Next isSally Hanson's Hard as Nails...all these lacquers were designed to beflexable,hard and prety impervious to water..so I think they might beworthinvestigating. The old Granger looks good and so far no cracking ..I'llhave it @ Grayrock so the experts can review it and we'l see what theresulting opinions are.. Regards, Dennis Dennis, Hard as nails seems to be a good bet. I used it to repair the edges ofwraps on my Grainger. I have fished the rod several times. no cracks, chipsor other problems. BTW, in most places it is not covered with varnish! Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Wed Jun 24 11:27:21 1998 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: Tapers To all english rodmakers; Has anyone a taper for a 2 or 3-piece, ca. 9-13ft trotting rod, forgrayling fishing in rivers with nottingham reels and sticks? Thanks in advance Stefan -- S. Grau`s atelier edelweissGespliesste Angelruten/Split Cane RodsSwiss Flyfishing Schoolhttp://www.BuchLang.com/~grau Adresse:Brunnadernstr. 11 CH - 3006 BerneTel: ++41 (0) 31 352 42 88 ab 19.00/ from 7.PME-Mail: gespliesst@bluewin.ch from sjstill@indy.net Wed Jun 24 16:33:02 1998 Subject: setting no-mail? Hi All, Is there a function to set no-mail for a short while? I have to be out oftown for a few days, and don't want to have to come back to a ton ofmessages! TIA, Steve Steve Stillabower from DEMARALON@aol.com Wed Jun 24 17:02:54 1998 Subject: Re: Construction environments boundary="part0_898725634_boundary" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_898725634_boundary After you get an answer to your various questions (and I'm sorry I can'tanswer them) perhaps you will be interested in acquiring Tonkin Canefromwhich tomake your rods. The attached price list should be of help to you.Good luck!Harold Demarest, Charles H. Demarest, Inc. --part0_898725634_boundary name="PRICEL~1.TXT" CHARLES H. DEMAREST, INC.P. O. Box 238Bloomingdale, NJ 07403 Telephone: 973 492-1414 Facsimile: 973 838-6538e-mail: Demaralon@aol.com TONKIN CANE Pieces Minimum EachPer Bale 1 - 12 Bales Order Piece 12=92 X 1-3/4 - 2=94 20 $305.00/Bale 3 pcs. 26.00/p=c 12=92 x 2 - 2-1/2=94 20 $384.00/Bale 3 pcs. 29.00/p=c F. O. B. LAKEWOOD, NEW JERSEY The 12 foot length is available only in bale lots and can be shipped o=nly by common carrier. We prepay the freight charges and therebyreceive=a 53% or 55% discount, depending on your locaion, which we pass ontoyou=. Please provide a commercial address for delivery in order to avoid ext=ra delivery charges. Minimum orders cane be shipped via UPS if cut in half (each piece is i=dentified). For cutting, packing and shipping via UPS add: EAST OF MISSISSIPPI: Minimum order $ 25.00Each additional piece 8.30 WEST OF MISSISSIPPI: Minimum order 36.00Each additional piece 12.00 ALASKA, HAWAII, CANADA: Minimum order 22.00 plus UPS charge=sEach additional piece 7.50 plus UPS charge=s October 15, 199=7 --part0_898725634_boundary-- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Jun 24 18:01:57 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Summer Projects List, My wife has me painting rooms on the inside of the house so we can sell it.She says she wants a smaller house with less upkeep so we can use ourdriftbaot more. What a woman.bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Jun 24 18:04:49 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Thread Colors for Flamed Rods List,all womens nail polishes are laquer but you have to be careful with someofthe thinners for them as they contain oils and sometimes silicone. Bret from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Wed Jun 24 18:46:14 1998 ix13.ix.netcom.com via smap(V1.3) Subject: Re: Summer Projects In my spare time(?), my wife and I are adding a breakfast room and a porchtothe house. I bought a framing nail gun and so far have imbedded a 16 pennynail 2 inches into my left hand. It is healed, I'm still building rods and theroom/porch is healthy! Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: List,My wife has me painting rooms on the inside of the house so we can sellit.She says she wants a smaller house with less upkeep so we can use ourdriftbaot more. What a woman.bret from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Wed Jun 24 18:52:45 1998 ix13.ix.netcom.com via smap(V1.3) Subject: Re: Thread Colors for Flamed Rods Nail polish is evolution of airplane dope. Go to your model airplane hobbystore and buy some clear "Aerogloss" dope. Thin with acetone from yourlocalhardware store. Mix 50/50 with "Plexiglas" disolved in acetone(takesabout aweek), and you have a good head cement for your flies. Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: List,all womens nail polishes are laquer but you have to be careful with someofthe thinners for them as they contain oils and sometimes silicone.Bret from hokkaido_flyfisher@yahoo.com Wed Jun 24 20:02:31 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrules - buying vs building Dear Rodmakers, As an apprentice rodmaker working on his first rod, my experience is basic (to say the least!), but mysensei's experience and techniques are exacting. He bought a Toto machining unit (about 10-15 years ago than a few rods a year. It's a variable speed metal drilling, cutting unit, and with rods of nickel-steel,he spends a few hours making his male-female ferrules,with some nice tooling. I don't yet have the skills craft my own, but I do spend a bit of time in the shop, practicing on scraps. who've never machined them, I would suggest watching someone experienced doing it, practicingon scraps, get their advice on your work, and once you're satisfied with the quality, ... stopbuying (anywhere from a few days of intensivemachining onwards). The investment in time and materials is a bit expensive, but that "popping" sound is great ;-) Cheers, Christian==Mr. Christian THALACKER Otaru University of CommerceMatsugae 2-6-30 Otaru International Center #253047-0022 Hokkaido JAPAN Midori 3-5-21 Otaru047 Hokkaido JAPAN http://members.tripod.com/~Nijimasu/O.htmlNothing is impossible until it is sent to a committee._________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from anglport@con2.com Wed Jun 24 22:49:41 1998 Subject: Re: Summer Projects Onis,Trying to reenact that Danny Glover scene in Lethal Weapon (or was itLethalWeapon II)? Glad the hand is healed. I often wondered how tricky thosethings were...since you've never seemed too dumb in the past, I guess theanswer is: pretty tricky!Keep those hands BEHIND the gun,Art At 06:43 PM 6/24/98 -0500, you wrote:In my spare time(?), my wife and I are adding a breakfast room and aporch tothe house. I bought a framing nail gun and so far have imbedded a 16pennynail 2 inches into my left hand. It is healed, I'm still building rods andtheroom/porch is healthy! Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: List,My wife has me painting rooms on the inside of the house so we can sellit.She says she wants a smaller house with less upkeep so we can use ourdriftbaot more. What a woman.bret from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Wed Jun 24 23:20:58 1998 ix1.ix.netcom.com via smap(V1.3) Subject: Re: Summer Projects Actually they are made quite safe considering the job they have to do. Theproblemwas years of habit that caused my downfall. When you are tired, a slip iseasy. Iwas framing some rafters and I was holding one board while toe nailing itwith thenail gun; the same setup you would use with a hand hammer. The naildidn'tpenetrate the board; it ricocheted into my hand. Felt kind of foolish. Pulled thenail out and went back to work. I had already had a Tetanus shot; courtesyof aslip while splitting bamboo. In all fairness, I'm not that clumsy (wellmaybe Iam), but I am not timid on trying something new so I get bit a lot. Anyway, I gotthe room and porch framed, the outside walls up and the roof on in threeweekends.Couldn't have done it without the gun. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com Art Port wrote: Onis,Trying to reenact that Danny Glover scene in Lethal Weapon (or was itLethalWeapon II)? Glad the hand is healed. I often wondered how tricky thosethings were...since you've never seemed too dumb in the past, I guess theanswer is: pretty tricky!Keep those hands BEHIND the gun,Art At 06:43 PM 6/24/98 -0500, you wrote:In my spare time(?), my wife and I are adding a breakfast room and aporch tothe house. I bought a framing nail gun and so far have imbedded a 16pennynail 2 inches into my left hand. It is healed, I'm still building rods andtheroom/porch is healthy! Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: List,My wife has me painting rooms on the inside of the house so we cansell it.She says she wants a smaller house with less upkeep so we can useour driftbaot more. What a woman.bret from Nodewrrior@aol.com Thu Jun 25 00:11:00 1998 Subject: Re: Grayrock report Sadly today I had to leave Grayrock 98 to get back to my day gig...(ugh)Some things of interest to report on:The hex hatch is cooking along fine, alot of fish in the 13"-16" range andafew 20"s in the group!The maker rod got finished and looks teriffic! It is quite a movingexperince to hold the thing in your hands and see all the names inked oneachstrip...Chris Bogart's redoing of the "JJ Lives" taper is a splendid easy going, yetauthoritative 7' 4wt. The rod has tons of character and a surprisingreserveof power. Chris says Jerry will soon post the taper along with a niftyLeonardtournament 8' 3wt. Gentlemen, let's hope it's very soon!So many great rods to cast, Builders from as far away as Austria-AlexdoesGREAT work by the way, and a splendid fisherman as well-he got one ofthe 20+inchers. He and his friend Christoph (sp?) were tons of fun as they got toexperience the warmth and silliness on the ol' American Trout Bum cultureinfull force!ALOT of people showed up today as I was sadly leaving, if anybody outthereis still deciding to go or not, pack yer car immediately and go!! Rob Hoffhines from ragnarig@integrityol.com Thu Jun 25 00:37:47 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A3F52D30148; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 22:45:25 PDT Subject: Re: Summer Projects Projects At 06:22 AM 6/24/98 -0500, you wrote:I am working on an 8 foot C.C. de France. I have used John's techniqueof rationalizing to put off the necessary house repairs. I did put anew sink and faucet in the bathroom, that bought me a little time. My own C.C. de Fr. will have to wait a few weeks; also the light steelheadrod I solicited ideas for a while back. Just been way too busy. Spent all last week with a group of student engineers touring EasternWashington and the Grand Coulee land reclamation projects. Fished theYakima River on the way there, Rocky Ford Creek most every morning andevening whilst there, and Dry Falls Lake when there was time. Hit Crab Creek, Merry Lakes and the Yakima again on the way back. Had alittle time so checked out Icicle Creek and the Snoqualmie before I madethelast stretch. I tell you, it's just been work work work! Had a lot of gear to pack along so I only had my old Thomas 9-footer. Allthese varied conditions just reinforced what an ideal all-around rod alightnine really is, especially for spring creeks. grass) as well as maintaining tension and protecting very fine leaders,hiding behind the weeds, dapping a hopper or a dry, reaching out a fewextrafeet, mending line around rocks and snags and a few dozen other equallyimportant considerations, I can only think of one possible reason why allthe yuppies want is 7 1/2-footers. Think I'll keep it to myself. Davy from destinycon@mindspring.com Thu Jun 25 06:53:55 1998 Subject: Re: setting no-mail? Steve,Yes, go to jerry's RM page, then to join/resign-RM page, then tovacationreminder page, then follow directions. Easy as that. At 04:34 PM 6/24/98 -0500, you wrote:Hi All, Is there a function to set no-mail for a short while? I have to be out oftown for a few days, and don't want to have to come back to a ton ofmessages! TIA, Steve Steve Stillabower from destinycon@mindspring.com Thu Jun 25 07:36:22 1998 Subject: Re: Construction environments Gerald,This comes from someone living on the buckle of the "Rust Belt". Bottomline is, YES, you have to control the humidity. Not for just the cane butyour tools as well. (RUST IS NOT YOUR FRIEND) Seal the area you are usingas much as possible then get a de-humidifier and let it run. (I have two inmy shop that, in the summer, run 24 hrs a day) And keep the door closed!Even in your garage my bet is you can lower the humidity to the 50 or even40 percent range and this is where you get real rust control. It will heatit up quit a bit (does Hell ring a bell?) but your cane and tools will loveit. You on the other hand..........Gary H At 04:13 PM 6/23/98 -0500, you wrote:I've not yet built a rod but from what I've read (this list and one book)the construction environment is fairly important to the scheme of things.Ineed someone to elaborate please. In short (as I understand it) there's the splitting, the roughing, thetapering, the binding, then the finishing of the constructed blank. Thereare a lot of things missing in that abbreviated process, I know. But, atwhat point does the construction environment really become critical? I get the impression that humidity is important to keep under control...Well, I live in Tulsa OK where when Houston has too much water in the airitall comes here to settle. My work area is destined to be in a detachedgarage with plenty of outside air circulating into it (not sealed well atall). This means a good deal of humidity, dust, etc moving about. Not an So, given that scenarion how much of my work can get done in the nastyolegarage before I have to go elsewhere where the environment is morefavorable? Or, is everyone else finding ways of working around a similarproblem? Thanks. (I'm just getting started so it's as good a time as any toask the goofball questions I guess) Gerald Buckley from geraldb@pennwell.com Thu Jun 25 07:51:39 1998 Subject: RE: Construction environments I figured someone might come back with a good opinion or two on thetopic.But, you know, watching Glenn Brackett on the Winston Waters VHS tape...itdoesn't look like he's all that concerned about the humidity factor.Probably because of what nature has provided him by way ofenvironmentalconditions in Twin Bridges, yes? Come to think of it he didn't lookconcerned about ANYTHING but making the best rods he knows how. Anyway... so, Gary and I are blessed with wet air and have to compensate.Is this the general concensus among the other builders? I guess to not getcontrol on the air could result in less than optimal results. But what didGarrison, Payne, et al do before they had such control over theirenvironments? Work in New Mexico? And, if they had such little controlovertheir air how did their tools and materials react in that day? Whatevertheir environmental prep we're all in awe of their products today... Gerald Buckley ----------From: Heidt Sent: Thursday, June 25, 1998 12:41 PM Subject: Re: Construction environments Gerald,This comes from someone living on the buckle of the "Rust Belt".Bottomline is, YES, you have to control the humidity. Not for just the cane butyour tools as well. (RUST IS NOT YOUR FRIEND) Seal the area you areusingas much as possible then get a de-humidifier and let it run. (I have twoinmy shop that, in the summer, run 24 hrs a day) And keep the door closed!Even in your garage my bet is you can lower the humidity to the 50 oreven40 percent range and this is where you get real rust control. It willheatit up quit a bit (does Hell ring a bell?) but your cane and tools willloveit. You on the other hand..........Gary H At 04:13 PM 6/23/98 -0500, you wrote:I've not yet built a rod but from what I've read (this list and one book)the construction environment is fairly important to the scheme ofthings.Ineed someone to elaborate please. In short (as I understand it) there's the splitting, the roughing, thetapering, the binding, then the finishing of the constructed blank. Thereare a lot of things missing in that abbreviated process, I know. But, atwhat point does the construction environment really become critical? I get the impression that humidity is important to keep under control...Well, I live in Tulsa OK where when Houston has too much water in theairitall comes here to settle. My work area is destined to be in a detachedgarage with plenty of outside air circulating into it (not sealed well atall). This means a good deal of humidity, dust, etc moving about. Not an So, given that scenarion how much of my work can get done in the nastyolegarage before I have to go elsewhere where the environment is morefavorable? Or, is everyone else finding ways of working around asimilarproblem? Thanks. (I'm just getting started so it's as good a time as anytoask the goofball questions I guess) Gerald Buckley from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Jun 25 08:01:33 1998 (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id JAA04453; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:01:13 -0400 boundary="_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.EV3YN8138764=_=_=_"Subject: Re: Grayrock report --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.EV3YN8138764=_=_=_ Rob Sorry to see you go - been fun. The Hex Hatch has been awesome - one Monster Hatch has been going on - it is prime time up here right now - everyone had beenout fishing at night - Steve Southard had some pictures to post on thetrout bums homepage - but remember it is hex hatch time - everyone onebeen out late fishing (past midnight). The real festivities begin tomorrow but a number of people are herealready and it has been good fun - good rods - good fishing. Here is a small picture of the JJ rod and it's very first fish. Chris On Thu, 25 Jun 1998 01:10:25 EDT, Nodewrrior@aol.com wrote: Sadly today I had to leave Grayrock 98 to get back to my day gig...(ugh)Some things of interest to report on:The hex hatch is cooking along fine, alot of fish in the 13"-16" range andafew 20"s in the group!The maker rod got finished and looks teriffic! It is quite a movingexperince to hold the thing in your hands and see all the names inked oneachstrip...Chris Bogart's redoing of the "JJ Lives" taper is a splendid easy going,yetauthoritative 7' 4wt. The rod has tons of character and a surprisingreserveof power. Chris says Jerry will soon post the taper along with a niftyLeonardtournament 8' 3wt. Gentlemen, let's hope it's very soon!So many great rods to cast, Builders from as far away as Austria-AlexdoesGREAT work by the way, and a splendid fisherman as well-he got one ofthe 20+inchers. He and his friend Christoph (sp?) were tons of fun as they got toexperience the warmth and silliness on the ol' American Trout Bumculture infull force!ALOT of people showed up today as I was sadly leaving, if anybody outthereis still deciding to go or not, pack yer car immediately and go!! Rob Hoffhines> from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Thu Jun 25 08:16:191998 (may be forged)) Subject: Re: Construction environments Gerald, We might have to get together, I live in Fort Smith and am in the sameboat with you in both experience and environment. Luckily, I work withair conditioning and I have installed a small heat pump in my garage forthis reason. My other problem is that air conditioning repair and workkeep me too busy to work allow time to work on rodmaking. What book have you read. Wayne Cattanach's book describes a rod dippingbooth. This is made out of a length of 10" or 12" PVC pipe available from plumbing supply houses at a relatively low cost. I have seenWayne's booth and it is nice. He dug a hole in his basement floor toallow the full 10' length to stand in the corner. He cut an opening inthe side of the pipe towards one end and hung clear vinyl strips overthe opening to form a see- thru door. There is a plate (bracket) in themiddle of the tube to the dipping tube. A pulley at the top allows therod piece to be lowered from outside the tube into the dipping tube.When the rod piece is raised it can hang and dry in the booth as all isenclosed. Fluorescent lights mounted inside the tube allow inspectionof the dipping job and if left on provide gentle heat for curing of thefinish. Ultra-Violet Fluorescent tubes could also be mounted inside thetube to aid in drying. There are several posts in the archives about the use of drying boxes tomaintain humidity levels for strips in process. I am also looking into information on impregnation as a way around thehigh humidity levels in our area. Were you effected by the recent power outages in Tulsa? If so you havemy sympathy. It is too hot and humid to be without A/C. My E-Mail Addresses are dickay@alltel.net (Home) anddickfuhrman@rheemote.com (Work) Talk to you later about this environment. Cordially Dick Fuhrman from tom@cet-inc.com Thu Jun 25 08:39:43 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Construction environments GeraldI do a lot of my rough work in the garage and then move into the basement bound my bevelled strips and heat treated them. At that point wheneverI'mnot working on them I store them in a tube containing an indicatingdessicant (Drierite, the stuff that is blue when dry and turns pink whenspent and is regenerated by heating). I made the tube out of plastic pipe.Glue a cap on one end of the pipe. On the other end glue a threaded femalecoupling. Then make a top piece out of a short (3"-4") piece of pipe with athreaded male coupling on one end and a threaded female on the other.Beforeyou glue the short pipe into the threaded male, cut a piece of screen andinsert. Use a threaded pipe plug in the female coupling of the short piece.Put the dessicant in the short piece, install the plug and then use theshort (dessicant filled) pipe as the "cap" for the rod tube. (I hope you canfollow this explanation, I wish I could show you a picture) I keep my strips in this tube after heat treating and through the finalplaning process. After gluing, the strips are either in the drying cabinetor back into the tube until I get a coat of varnish on them. Some builders will not build rods during the humid months. But I enjoy thework too much to be limited to seasons. I think a "dry" tube is simpleenough of a solution for us paart time builders. Tom Whittle---------- So, given that scenarion how much of my work can get done in the nastyolegarage before I have to go elsewhere where the environment is morefavorable? Or, is everyone else finding ways of working around a similarproblem? Thanks. (I'm just getting started so it's as good a time as anytoask the goofball questions I guess) Gerald Buckley from dhaftel@att.com Thu Jun 25 08:55:26 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2 sol2) (5.5.1960.3) Subject: RE: Construction environments Tom, Drierite sounds like the ticket!! I live in New Jersey, right by theDelaware River, where humidity is always a problem. Where can I getsome ofthat stuff, and how much do you use? It was suggested to me that I use aGoldenrod gunsafe dehumidifier, which I'll probably do also, but until I canget my act together with that contraption, I think the dessicant is the wayto go. Thanks, Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Tom [SMTP:tom@cet-inc.com]Sent: Thursday, June 25, 1998 10:26 AM Subject: Re: Construction environments GeraldI do a lot of my rough work in the garage and then move into thebasement havebound my bevelled strips and heat treated them. At that point wheneverI'mnot working on them I store them in a tube containing an indicatingdessicant (Drierite, the stuff that is blue when dry and turns pink whenspent and is regenerated by heating). I made the tube out of plastic pipe.Glue a cap on one end of the pipe. On the other end glue a threaded femalecoupling. Then make a top piece out of a short (3"-4") piece of pipe withathreaded male coupling on one end and a threaded female on the other.Beforeyou glue the short pipe into the threaded male, cut a piece of screen andinsert. Use a threaded pipe plug in the female coupling of the shortpiece.Put the dessicant in the short piece, install the plug and then use theshort (dessicant filled) pipe as the "cap" for the rod tube. (I hope youcanfollow this explanation, I wish I could show you a picture) I keep my strips in this tube after heat treating and through the finalplaning process. After gluing, the strips are either in the drying cabinetor back into the tube until I get a coat of varnish on them. Some builders will not build rods during the humid months. But I enjoythework too much to be limited to seasons. I think a "dry" tube is simpleenough of a solution for us paart time builders. Tom Whittle---------- So, given that scenarion how much of my work can get done in thenastyolegarage before I have to go elsewhere where the environment is morefavorable? Or, is everyone else finding ways of working around asimilarproblem? Thanks. (I'm just getting started so it's as good a time as anytoask the goofball questions I guess) Gerald Buckley from JHecht9234@aol.com Thu Jun 25 09:19:30 1998 Subject: Ferrule question Although I've only built a few rods, I seem to be having a recurringexperience. Even though the ferrules fit well when clean, by the end of adayof fishing they are difficult to separate (and to put back together untilcleaned). Seems to be a slight amount of tarnish or oxidation that formsandcauses the problem. I live in D.C. where there is a lot of humidity --perhaps this has something to do with it. I've been cleaning the ferruleswith denatured alcohol and occasionally very light application of steelwool,which leads to a good fit -- but the problem occurs the next time I gofishing. The question is whether this is normal or something can be done about it. Ifit is inevitable, what do makers tell their customers? It seems like itwouldbe tough to tell a customer he has to clean the ferrules after every outingortwo. It also presents a problem for an extended fishing trip where itwouldbe difficult to clean ferrules between outings. Maybe the fit of myferrulesis too tight? Any advice would be appreciated. from tom@cet-inc.com Thu Jun 25 09:59:48 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Construction environments Dennis,I'm pleased that someone could follow those directions of mine. If youdon'thave a local Laboratory Supply House, try these companies. FisherScientific(www.fishersci.com), Thomas Scientific (www.thomassci.com), or VWR(www.vwrsp.com). I think it costs about $12- 13/lb which is a pretty bigjar.I probably have about 4oz or less in my tube. You could use otherdessicantsbut the indicating Drierite visibly shows you that it is still working.(Drierite also comes in a non-indicating form)Good luck, Tom "HHH in PA" Whittle----------From: "Haftel, Dennis Jay" Subject: RE: Construction environmentsDate: Thu, Jun 25, 1998, 8:55 AM Tom, Drierite sounds like the ticket!! I live in New Jersey, right by theDelaware River, where humidity is always a problem. Where can I getsome ofthat stuff, and how much do you use? It was suggested to me that I use aGoldenrod gunsafe dehumidifier, which I'll probably do also, but until Icanget my act together with that contraption, I think the dessicant is thewayto go. Thanks, Dennis Haftel from destinycon@mindspring.com Thu Jun 25 10:05:54 1998 Subject: RE: Construction environments Gerald,I don't know about most of the builders before air-conditioning but Inthe"book" Carmichael stated that Garrison did not build in the humid time ofthe year. As to storage of unfinished rod parts, if you make a coper tube forstorage and heat it before you put the rod in, it will do the same as usingdessicant if the tube is air tight. This is a simple solution. When youheat the tube the air in the tube will expand. Sense you have not removedor added any moisture to the air the grains of water vapor per pound of airwill remain the same, but the weight of the air inside the tube has beenreduced thus leaving less water vapor in the tube. It's that oldPsychrometric wet-bulb-dry-bulb stuff again. That is why it's hard torelyon relative humidity alone as the determining factor, for example air at70* and 50% relative humidity contains about 54 grains of moisture perlb.and air at 95* and 50% relative humidity contains about 125 grains ofmoisture per lb. Both 50% relative humidity but much different moisturecontent. Gary H At 07:51 AM 6/25/98 -0500, you wrote:I figured someone might come back with a good opinion or two on thetopic.But, you know, watching Glenn Brackett on the Winston Waters VHS tape...itdoesn't look like he's all that concerned about the humidity factor.Probably because of what nature has provided him by way ofenvironmentalconditions in Twin Bridges, yes? Come to think of it he didn't lookconcerned about ANYTHING but making the best rods he knows how. Anyway... so, Gary and I are blessed with wet air and have to compensate.Is this the general concensus among the other builders? I guess to not getcontrol on the air could result in less than optimal results. But what didGarrison, Payne, et al do before they had such control over theirenvironments? Work in New Mexico? And, if they had such little controlovertheir air how did their tools and materials react in that day? Whatevertheir environmental prep we're all in awe of their products today... Gerald Buckley from sjstill@indy.net Thu Jun 25 10:28:10 1998 Subject: Re: setting no-mail? Yes, go to jerry's RM page, then to join/resign-RM page, then tovacationreminder page, then follow directions. Easy as that. Gee, that was almost too easy! Thanks! Steve Stillabower from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Thu Jun 25 10:46:14 1998 post.interalpha.net(8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id QAA11791 for ;Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:51:02+0100 Subject: Re: Tapers At 18:22 24/06/98 -0700, you wrote:To all english rodmakers; Has anyone a taper for a 2 or 3-piece, ca. 9-13ft trotting rod, forgrayling fishing in rivers with nottingham reels and sticks? Thanks in advance Stefan -- S. Grau`s atelier edelweissGespliesste Angelruten/Split Cane RodsSwiss Flyfishing Schoolhttp://www.BuchLang.com/~grau Adresse:Brunnadernstr. 11 CH - 3006 BerneTel: ++41 (0) 31 352 42 88 ab 19.00/ from 7.PME-Mail: gespliesst@bluewin.ch Stefan 'GRAYLING SELECT' all split cane grayling trotting rod, on my 'For Sale'books at £190. Try my web site at http://www.interalpha.net/customer/cane-rods It's described and listed there. There are several other rods that would dothe job, also listed, but that's the specialist tool for the task. Tis alovely thing. I've used it myself on grayling up to 2 lbs. and landedrainbows to over 6 lbs. on it too. Even so, it takes 2 lb. B/S. pointswithout breaking them. You'll find a lot of other English-style coarse rods there too, which mightbe of interest to other European anglers. I gather there's a big market forreally good British rods of the MK IV type in Germany too. What's the bestway of addressing that market Stefan? Forgive bandwidth fellas: there's not much traffic at present. John Cooper (England) from "drobert@agt.net"@agt.net Thu Jun 25 12:15:25 1998 clgrps05.agt.net" ident:"IDENT-NOT-QUERIED [port 43835]") by mailgate.telusplanet.net withESMTP id ; Thu,25 Jun 1998 11:14:58 -0600 SMTP id ;Thu, 25 Jun 1998 10:54:14 -0600 Subject: unsubscribe Hello Rodmakers: Too much mail but interesting stuff. Please unsubscribe Rodmakers. from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Thu Jun 25 12:50:24 1998 (may be forged)) Subject: RE: Construction environments Dennis, Last fall I helped a friend move his Christmas present gun safe intoplace in his house. It came with a Golden Rod dehumidifer. It was atube about 5/8" in diameter and about 12" long. It had two plastic feetto hold it up off the floor of the safe about an inch. It had anelectric cord about 6 feet long. There was a 1/4" hole in the back ofthe safe to thread the cord through. After the plug was installed andthe unit was plugged in the rod warmed up. This is supposed to elevatethe temperature in the safe to drive the humidity out. I have not checked to see was these items cost, but I bet they would beeasy to come by. I will probably try building my self a drying box witha couple of light bulb sockets wired in series because I have the partson hand. I will play with the size of the light bulbs until I get thetemperature that I want. Gary Heidt is correct that you can not go byrelative humidity alone. You need to reduce the weight of the air inthe storage area. Warmed air expands and is driven out of the opentube. Thus the warmed air sealed in a tube is drier when it cools down.The drier air can actually absorb moisture from the bamboo stored in atube. The same with a dessicant. Its just what ever you feel mostcomfortable with. When I was in Wayne's basement this time last year, I noticed that hehad a dehumidifer running. Even the best fight these problems. It justcomes down to defining your processes and working them properly. Cordially Dick Fuhrman from rclarke@eou.edu Thu Jun 25 13:59:46 1998 Subject: Re: Grayrock report Nice fish Chris. I am jealous! Robert Clarke ----------From: Chris Bogart Subject: Re: Grayrock reportDate: Thursday, June 25, 1998 5:57 AM Rob Sorry to see you go - been fun. The Hex Hatch has been awesome - one Monster Hatch has been going on - it is prime time up here right now - everyone had beenout fishing at night - Steve Southard had some pictures to post on thetrout bums homepage - but remember it is hex hatch time - everyoneonebeen out late fishing (past midnight). The real festivities begin tomorrow but a number of people are herealready and it has been good fun - good rods - good fishing. Here is a small picture of the JJ rod and it's very first fish. Chris On Thu, 25 Jun 1998 01:10:25 EDT, Nodewrrior@aol.com wrote: Sadly today I had to leave Grayrock 98 to get back to my day gig...(ugh)Some things of interest to report on:The hex hatch is cooking along fine, alot of fish in the 13"-16" rangeand afew 20"s in the group!The maker rod got finished and looks teriffic! It is quite a movingexperince to hold the thing in your hands and see all the names inked oneachstrip...Chris Bogart's redoing of the "JJ Lives" taper is a splendid easygoing, yetauthoritative 7' 4wt. The rod has tons of character and a surprisingreserveof power. Chris says Jerry will soon post the taper along with a niftyLeonardtournament 8' 3wt. Gentlemen, let's hope it's very soon!So many great rods to cast, Builders from as far away as Austria-AlexdoesGREAT work by the way, and a splendid fisherman as well-he got one ofthe 20+inchers. He and his friend Christoph (sp?) were tons of fun as they gottoexperience the warmth and silliness on the ol' American Trout Bumculture infull force!ALOT of people showed up today as I was sadly leaving, if anybody outthereis still deciding to go or not, pack yer car immediately and go!! Rob Hoffhines from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Jun 25 14:37:01 1998 Subject: Dessicant I was in a crafts store - a wonderful place for fly fishing, fly tying, and rodmaking items, if you are creative enough to see what an item CAN do instead of what it is SUPPOSED to do. I came acrossa huge can of dessicant. If I remember right it was $9.95 for 5 lbs.It was supposed to be used for drying flowers for a dried flowerarrangement. You bury a flower in this stuff for a couple days, andout comes a perfectly dessicated flower. It doesn't have the blue topink indicator granules, but a half hour in an oven at 350 F and it's ready to go again. When fishing I carry a film container of this stuff,and when my fly is waterlogged I put my fly in, shake it for a fewseconds, take my fly out, and blow off the clinging granules - aperfectly dry fly! the end closed and dropped it in the tube. Every once and a whileI take it out, untie the sock, pour the dessicant in a pan and bakethe moisture out in my oven. Darryl from lsgorney@rs01.kings.edu Thu Jun 25 14:46:51 1998 8.7/8.7) id PAA26208 for Subject: Re: Dessicant Darryl,My wife and daighter keep me supplied with dessicant when they buy (andthey do buy!) purses and shoes. Great for flyboxes as well.Len Gorney lsgorney@rs01.kings.eduhttp://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/index.htm"You never step in the same stream twice." Hericlitus c. 100 BC from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Jun 25 16:51:34 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrule question In a message dated 6/25/98 7:20:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time,JHecht9234@aol.com writes: The question is whether this is normal or something can be done about it. If it is inevitable, what do makers tell their customers? It seems likeit would be tough to tell a customer he has to clean the ferrules afterevery outing or two. It also presents a problem for an extended fishing trip where it would be difficult to clean ferrules between outings. Maybe the fit of my ferrules is too tight? Any advice would be appreciated. Do you use any sort of lubricant on your ferrules? Parrifin (candle wax)not only lubricates the ferrule but it also coats it and keeps it fromoxidizing. In my opinion rubbing the male ferrule on your nose is oneof the worse things you can do to a ferrule - might be different for others,but my sweat isn't too kind to most metals. Darryl from JHecht9234@aol.com Thu Jun 25 17:20:12 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrule question I don't use any sort of lubricant on the ferrules. Would be interested toknow if that is standard or recommended practice, and if so what is besttouse. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Thu Jun 25 17:27:00 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrule question It sounds like your ferrule fit is too tight to begin with. Also, when I fishthe stream near my house, my ferrules tend to get sort of a tarnish,oxidationonthem and tend to go together and come apart tighter than they did. This isbecause there is an old abandoned chemical company about five miles upstreamthat buried there old chemicals in the ground behind the plant.They are gettinginto the water.I'm not sure what these chemicals are,but the DEC said not to eatthefish because of contamination. What ever they are, they are very corrosive andplay havoc with my Nickel Silver components. I have to clean my ferrules afterevery trip. Dave LeClairThe Fly and Rod room from CALucker@aol.com Thu Jun 25 18:15:52 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrule question In a message dated 98-06-25 17:58:09 EDT, you write: You don't need to use lubricant for nickel silver ferrules -- the slipperynature of the alloy takes care of lubricating itself. All you need to do iskeep a well- polished ferrule sparkling clean.Darryl, can you please explain how exactly you fit any parafin inside awell-fitting ferrule? I have only been able to use parafin if a ferrule is shot. Chris Lucker from MasjC1@aol.com Thu Jun 25 18:19:07 1998 Subject: Re: RE: Construction environments I live in Houston (100 degrees & 100% humidity) Texas. When I firststarted tobuild my first rod the nodes would not stay flat or straight even though Iwasworking in an air conditioned house. I solved my problem by building a 12 "square by 6' tall pine box with a light bulb in the bottom. I drill a smallhole in the butt end of each strip and hang in the box from cup hooks whennotbeing worked on. It seems to have solved the problem. I treat the blanksthesame way until I have the rod varnished. The main problem I had in building the box was that as the light bulbheatedit up the wood shrank. It took 3 weeks before the door would fit properly.Thedoor worked great when I first built the box but every week I had to takethedoor off it's hinges and plane it down so it would open and close. The bulbs I'm using are 95 watt that have a life of about 30 days. Mystreamthermometer indicates a steady 100 degrees F. Mark Cole from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Jun 25 18:30:54 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Grayrock report rob,splendid fish.bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Jun 25 18:51:28 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Ferrule question List, ithas the damn tightest ferrules I have ever seen and I have always usedplainold dry soap( the little bars you get at hotels ) on it's ferrules and theyalways pop apart real slick. There have been times when I didn't have soapwith me and I have needed help to pull it apart. Try the dry soap trick andsee what you think. I think Syl Nemes showed me this trick it 1974 on thePere Marquette in Michigan. Let me know how it works for you. It alsokeepsthe ferrules nice and clean. Don't use the ferrule on the side of the nosetrick as it will only cause ferrule to collect dirt and grind away at yourferrules. I think this is why our fathers rods have so many loose fittingferrules as this is their old way of lubing ferrules.Bret from flyrod@artistree.com Thu Jun 25 19:25:54 1998 RAA23361 Subject: Re: Ferrule question mac-creator="4D4F5353" Dave, To hell with the ferrules, watch out for yourself! Chris Wohlford LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: It sounds like your ferrule fit is too tight to begin with. Also, when Ifishthe stream near my house, my ferrules tend to get sort of atarnish,oxidationon them and tend to go together and come apart tighter than they did.This isbecause there is an old abandoned chemical company about five milesupstreamthat buried there old chemicals in the ground behind the plant.They aregettinginto the water.I'm not sure what these chemicals are,but the DEC saidnot toeat the fish because of contamination. What ever they are, they are verycorrosive and play havoc with my Nickel Silver components. I have toclean myferrules after every trip. Dave LeClairThe Fly and Rod room from sats@gte.net Thu Jun 25 20:38:34 1998 Subject: Re: Construction environments Gerald.... At that point whenever I'mnot working on them I store them in a tube containing an indicatingdessicant... ... I made the tube out of plastic pipe....Some builders will not build rods during the humid months. But I enjoythework too much to be limited to seasons. I think a "dry" tube is simpleenough of a solution for us paart time builders. I've wondered about this. I was thinking of a "T" in the middle, droppingdown to some "damp rid." Has anyone ever tried rice? I remember seeing: 1.Soda crackers in sugar-- the idea being the cracker will pull themoisture outof the sugar. 2. grains of rice in salt. Same idea. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from sats@gte.net Thu Jun 25 20:45:49 1998 Subject: Re: Construction environments Dennis, Last fall I helped a friend move his Christmas present gun safe intoplace in his house. It came with a Golden Rod dehumidifer. It was atube about 5/8" in diameter and about 12" long. It had two plastic feetto hold it up off the floor of the safe about an inch. It had anelectric cord about 6 feet long. There was a 1/4" hole in the back ofthe safe to thread the cord through. After the plug was installed andthe unit was plugged in the rod warmed up. This is supposed to elevatethe temperature in the safe to drive the humidity out. Many boats in marina's keep a small (5wt ) light burning to fight mildew. The bulb is supposed to dry out those hard to get to places. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from anglport@con2.com Thu Jun 25 21:35:26 1998 Subject: RE: Construction environments I drill a smallhole in the butt end of each strip and hang in the box from cup hooks whennotbeing worked on. It seems to have solved the problem. I treat the blanksthesame way until I have the rod varnished. Mark Cole Mark,An easier way to hang the pieces in the box is to get a few sprung clothespins and some rigid wire. Bend the 4 to 6" length of wire into a squaredoff"S" and thread one of the end-hooks through the spring part of the pinsothe pin can hang vertically from the other arm of the S. Get a rattailedfile or a triangular file and file two matching grooves in the "teeth" ofthe pin (lengthwise) so that when the pin is hanging upside down like amonkey by its tail the strip of cane can seat in the groove of the teeth. Ifyou have "The Book" you can see some pins something like I'm describingonpage 183 in the varnishing section. If yours is working fine mine may not be worth the trouble, but I thinkyou'll spend as much time making a set of clips as you do every time youdrill a set of holes in the cane! And the clips are a one-time item.Art from jfoster@gte.net Thu Jun 25 23:51:16 1998 Subject: Re: Dessicant mac-creator="4D4F5353" Darryl, try your microwave, then you don't even have to remove it fromyou sock. does it keep your feet dry while wading? :-) Jerry from destinycon@mindspring.com Fri Jun 26 07:17:23 1998 Subject: Re: Tapers At 04:43 PM 6/25/98 +0100, you wrote:Try my web site at http://www.interalpha.net/customer/cane-rods John Cooper (England) John,Thanks for this information. I didn't know you had a site.Gary H from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Jun 26 10:30:50 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrule question In a message dated 6/25/98 4:21:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time,CALucker@aol.comwrites: You don't need to use lubricant for nickel silver ferrules -- the slipperynature of the alloy takes care of lubricating itself. All you need to doiskeep a well- polished ferrule sparkling clean.Darryl, can you please explain how exactly you fit any parafin inside awell- fitting ferrule? I have only been able to use parafin if a ferrule isshot. Rub the wax on, wipe most of it off (on my shirt most of the time if Idon't have a clean rag handy), leaving a very thin coat and I only needto do this about once a month. If your ferrules can't take this trearment they are too tight, and you will have exactly the problem the guy whostarted this thread had. Darryl Hayashida from flyfisher@nextdim.com Fri Jun 26 10:50:32 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id A191244600C8; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 08:43:13 PDT Subject: Re: Ferrule question Spinning the male ferrule in wax paper will do the same thing a lot neater. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Ferrule question In a message dated 6/25/98 4:21:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time,CALucker@aol.comwrites: You don't need to use lubricant for nickel silver ferrules -- theslipperynature of the alloy takes care of lubricating itself. All you need todoiskeep a well- polished ferrule sparkling clean.Darryl, can you please explain how exactly you fit any parafin inside awell- fitting ferrule? I have only been able to use parafin if a ferrule isshot. Rub the wax on, wipe most of it off (on my shirt most of the time if Idon't have a clean rag handy), leaving a very thin coat and I only needto do this about once a month. If your ferrules can't take this trearmentthey are too tight, and you will have exactly the problem the guy whostarted this thread had. Darryl Hayashida from CALucker@aol.com Fri Jun 26 13:24:49 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrule question In a message dated 98-06-26 11:36:32 EDT, you write: I haven't had the problem, but I've only been using clean nickel silverferrules for thirty years. Chris. from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Jun 26 14:27:03 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrule question In a message dated 6/26/98 8:55:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time,flyfisher@nextdim.com writes: Spinning the male ferrule in wax paper will do the same thing a lotneater. Sounds like a good idea!Why don't you send it in for a Tips and Techniques in the Bamboo FlyrodMagazine? You might win a years subscription. Send it to Mark Metcalfbam-fly@pacbell.netDarryl from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Jun 26 14:29:52 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrule question In a message dated 6/26/98 11:28:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time,CALucker@aol.comwrites: I haven't had the problem, but I've only been using clean nickel silverferrules for thirty years. Chris. C'est la vie. You do what works for you, and I'll do what works for me.Darryl Hayashida from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Jun 26 16:34:03 1998 head.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id RAA16559; Fri, 26 Jun1998 17:34:00 -0400 Subject: Grayling Gathering / TBBB-IV Steve has updated his http://www.troutbums.com homepage withpictures - more picturesto follow. Look first under the Hatch Line for some of them. Chris from flyfisher@nextdim.com Fri Jun 26 17:38:45 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id A10EAE50216; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 15:30:38 PDT Subject: Re: Ferrule question Darryl, I took your advice and sent it.Dell Coppock,"IN THE GREAT NORTHWEST"http://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail flyfisher@nextdim.com- ----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Ferrule question In a message dated 6/26/98 8:55:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time,flyfisher@nextdim.com writes: Spinning the male ferrule in wax paper will do the same thing a lotneater. Sounds like a good idea!Why don't you send it in for a Tips and Techniques in the Bamboo FlyrodMagazine? You might win a years subscription. Send it to Mark Metcalfbam-fly@pacbell.netDarryl from MasjC1@aol.com Fri Jun 26 18:05:16 1998 Subject: Re: RE: Construction environments Art, Did just that last week after I mounted the ferrules. It just didn't seemproper to drill a hole in the male ferrule on the tip. I drilled holes in thehandles of a cloths pin and just used binding cord to hang it. Got the idea from "the book". I made a number of these and will use them next rodmakingseason. Only two weeks to get the rods finished and off to Colorado. Can't wait. Mark Cole from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Jun 26 22:31:36 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrule question Chris,I hope I never fall in that creek.I'll probebly turn into some oneeyed deformed monster. I'm surprised that the trout do so well in there, butI've pulled 20 inchers out of that little creek every once in a while.Good luckwith your ferrules.Enjoy the summer and catch lots of trout. Dave L from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sat Jun 27 13:56:08 1998 Subject: Re: test, don't bother XXXXX from fiveside@net-gate.com Sat Jun 27 14:03:25 1998 (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA23926 for ;Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:02:25 Subject: Cane from Jamaica? To the list,A recent issue of WILDBIRD magazine in an article on the island ofJamaicashows a raft of what appears to be splendid cane, 5 inch diameter, 20 feetlong with 2 foot node spacing. Anyone have a Jamaica connection? Bill from fiveside@net-gate.com Sat Jun 27 14:11:09 1998 (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA24446 for ;Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:10:14 Subject: Delaware West Branch To the list,A little off the subject but can anyone cut through the hype and tell uswhat fishing we might expect in mid-August on Delaware's west branch?Replyoff-list please. Thanks. Bill from ragnarig@integrityol.com Sat Jun 27 19:35:07 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A17B147A007A; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 17:42:35 PDT Subject: Re: Cane from Jamaica? A recent issue of WILDBIRD magazine in an article on the island ofJamaicashows a raft of what appears to be splendid cane, 5 inch diameter, 20feetlong with 2 foot node spacing. Anyone have a Jamaica connection? Bill Dear Bill Can't speak to the specific subject of Jamaican cane, but I do remember aningenious application of pneumatic/hydraulic technology using some canefound on the Island just to the north of the one in question. A young marine had made some kind of smoking device from the nativeplantand, while my recollection is that it didn't seem quite to have the strengthor stiffness of Tonkin, it did smoke pretty good. That's what I heard,anyway ;-) Davy from ragnarig@integrityol.com Sat Jun 27 20:59:37 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A54B13B10080; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 19:07:07 PDT Subject: tapers after the fact Dear Listers A few days ago, someone (Reed Curry? If not, apologies) asked if anybodyhad ever built a rod to a taper and then miked the finished rod to checkadherence to the plan. Is that the crux of the biscuit? Although I generally consider such goings-on to invite bad luck, I gave mymost recent rod (a PH Young "Driggs" model, about which more later) athorough sizing-up before varnishing and it was 3-7 thousandths off atalmost every station. I say "almost" because it was farther off in severalothers. Now I know why I never do this. My usual practice is to scrape off the glue and string, then cradle thesection in the expanded planing form and smooth it out with a 4to5-inchsegment of a file which has cutting edges like this:________________))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) It is epoxied to a wooden block with overhang on both edges to ensure aneven cut. I can't remember what you call this type of file, but I get them edges aren't too badly nicked, you don't get scratches and the cane can besmoothly finished without too much alteration of the planned taper. At this point, I feel that the section is essentially made. My whole focushere is just for appearance and to ensure that I do nothing which mayendanger the rod's prospects for a long life. I never mike the flats as Iwork to balance the section, as I feel this is sure to develop into atime-consuming and disappointing exercise. That's about enough for one posting. I've got to go out in the yard andcast that Driggs some more! Davy from flyfisher@nextdim.com Sat Jun 27 22:15:39 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id A38A12500FA; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 20:07:54 PDT Subject: Re: tapers after the fact Davy, after scraping the glue and enamel off I file only the nodes that maybe high then sand with #220 grit paper ten stokes on butt sections andfivestrokes on tip sections on each flat. I think your tolerances are wellwithin reason, if you get a chance to measure one of the rods made by oneofthe masters I think you will find that a lot of them vary more than whatyouhave. I don't think the perfect rod has ever been built and I don't think itever will. If you don't tell anybody what it measures no one will everknow.I also think it is an insult for some body to measure one of your rodswithout your OK. -----Original Message----- Subject: tapers after the fact Dear Listers A few days ago, someone (Reed Curry? If not, apologies) asked if anybodyhad ever built a rod to a taper and then miked the finished rod to checkadherence to the plan. Is that the crux of the biscuit? Although I generally consider such goings-on to invite bad luck, I gave mymost recent rod (a PH Young "Driggs" model, about which more later) athorough sizing-up before varnishing and it was 3-7 thousandths off atalmost every station. I say "almost" because it was farther off inseveralothers. Now I know why I never do this. My usual practice is to scrape off the glue and string, then cradle thesection in the expanded planing form and smooth it out with a 4to5-inchsegment of a file which has cutting edges like this:________________))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) It is epoxied to a wooden block with overhang on both edges to ensure aneven cut. I can't remember what you call this type of file, but I get them edges aren't too badly nicked, you don't get scratches and the cane can besmoothly finished without too much alteration of the planned taper. At this point, I feel that the section is essentially made. My whole focushere is just for appearance and to ensure that I do nothing which mayendanger the rod's prospects for a long life. I never mike the flats as Iwork to balance the section, as I feel this is sure to develop into atime-consuming and disappointing exercise. That's about enough for one posting. I've got to go out in the yard andcast that Driggs some more! Davy from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sat Jun 27 22:55:18 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with ESMTP +0000 Subject: Re: tapers after the fact Assuming that it was for personal use (not profit), I'd think it was acompliment.I could see someone getting a little miffed if someone just copied yourroddesign(assuming it REALLY IS your rod design) to compete with you. George Bourke ----------From: Dell Subject: Re: tapers after the factDate: Saturday, June 27, 1998 8:15 PM I also think it is an insult for some body to measure one of your rodswithout your OK. from ragnarig@integrityol.com Sat Jun 27 23:30:02 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A88FFC60084; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:37:35 PDT Subject: Re: tapers after the fact -----Original Message----- Davy, after scraping the glue and enamel off I file only the nodes thatmaybe high then sand with #220 grit paper ten stokes on butt sections andfivestrokes on tip sections on each flat. Our processes differ, Dell, in that my nodes are pretty much gone wellbefore I get to this point. And also, since I use sort of a "rubbed"finish, I polish the surface of the cane until it just about looks finished.I've got to do this 'cause my finish has next to no thickness. I think your tolerances are wellwithin reason, if you get a chance to measure one of the rods made by oneofthe masters I think you will find that a lot of them vary more than whatyouhave. I haven't had the opportunity to observe this firsthand, as I simply haven'tseen more than a couple of similar models by any one "master" in order tocompare within a series. I think the variations in different examples ofthe Young "Driggs" testifies to this, as everybody who has measured onecomes up with different numbers. I don't think the perfect rod has ever been built and I don't think itever will. If you don't tell anybody what it measures no one will everknow.I also think it is an insult for some body to measure one of your rodswithout your OK. Well, they do it, and I don't mind so much until they try to interpret themeaning of the information without having bothered to make a few oftheirown; but those guys don't irritate me nearly as much as the characterswiththe infernal loupes! Time to go to my happy place,Davy from Flyrod9824@aol.com Sun Jun 28 11:31:38 1998 Subject: Re: tapers after the fact Davy, The file to which you refer ,ala Boeing surplus, is called a ''Vixen''.I've put many a pound of shavings on the deck with one of them. I've usedthem on steel, brass, aliminum, wood, bone, horn, and on and on and, wellI'msure you get the idea. Thanx for every ones' input. Sincerely Dave Bryantflyrod9824@aol.com from gwr@seanet.com Sun Jun 28 17:32:45 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA03805 for; Sun, 28 Jun 1998 Subject: For Sir Darryl Sorry for the bandwith fellows. Darryl, Could you please send me a note off-list with your email address. I'vebeen trying to reach you but AOL insists that your address has permanentfatal errors. Thanks, Russgwr@seanet.com from plipton@sunvalley.net Sun Jun 28 18:05:22 1998 forged)) 0600 (208.14.167.62) Subject: Tokyo Cane Rods boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01BDA2B6.F55248C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BDA2B6.F55248C0 A neighbor showed a rod to me and asked if I could tell her about its =value. Can any of you help me? The rod was bought by her husband when he=was in Japan after WWII. The label says "Tokyo" on a small oval label =printed in gold ink on a black background. The rod itself is a bit =different in that it can be assembled as a three piece, 9 foot rod with =two tips or it can be assembled with a different midsection as a 6 foot =rod that is more like a baitfishing rod. It comes in a fitted wooden =box. The box lid has a sliding lid that opens up sections fitted with =some very bright, gaudy flies. I do not recognize the patterns, perhaps =they are for carp? Other sections hold leaders, bait hooks and bobbers. =It is in near new condition and judging from the ferrules, it looks =liked the rod was only fitted up and fished a few times. I did not cast =it so I can not say how good the action is. This is not really about rod building but my thanks to anyone who can =help me give her some info. PO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622-8585, Fax 208- 726-0191 ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BDA2B6.F55248C0 A neighbor showed a rod to meand = could tell her about its value. Can any of you help me? The rod was = her husband when he was in Japan after WWII. The label says = a small oval label printed in gold ink on a black background. The rod = a bit different in that it can be assembled as a three piece, 9 foot rod = two tips or it can be assembled with a different midsection as a 6 foot = is more like a baitfishing rod. It comes in a fitted wooden box. The box = a sliding lid that opens up sections fitted with some very bright, gaudy = I do not recognize the patterns, perhaps they are for carp? Other = leaders, bait hooks and bobbers. It is in near new condition and judging = the ferrules, it looks liked the rod was only fitted up and fished a few = I did not cast it so I can not say how good the action is. This is not really about rod building but my thanks = who can help me give her some info. 208-726-0191 ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BDA2B6.F55248C0-- from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Jun 28 18:21:20 1998 Subject: Re: Tokyo Cane Rods Philip,I've seen many of these rods from Japan over the years.Alot ofservice men brought them back after the war. Everyone I've seen was in awooden box just as you described. All of the ones I saw were Colored, usually red. Ithink they used a laquare. from what I understand, these rods are not worthmuch.$50.00 usually is about it. Dave LeClair from drinkr@voicenet.com Sun Jun 28 20:46:24 1998 0000 Subject: FW: Error Condition Re: NO MAIL -----Original Message----- listproc@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Error Condition Re: NO MAIL We are sorry, but this system sensed the following request which mayhavebeen inadvertently sent to list rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu:SET RODMAKERSIf your posting was intentional, please accept our apologies and resendyourmail message, making sure you do not include anything that may look likearequest in the first line of the body of the actual message. If this wasindeed a request please resend it to listproc@wugate.wustl.edu Your entiremessage is copied below. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- from drinkr@voicenet.com Sun Jun 28 20:39:46 1998 Subject: NO MAIL 1.0 Set rodmakers Mail Postpone from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Jun 28 22:25:35 1998 Mon, 29 Jun 1998 11:25:17 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: tapers after the fact That's about enough for one posting. I've got to go out in the yard andcast that Driggs some more! Davy Davy, this is such a nice rod doing too much of that will make you go blind.;-) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from jfoster@gte.net Sun Jun 28 23:25:18 1998 Subject: Re: Tapers mac-creator="4D4F5353" got jon lintvet's page updated. Jerry from Nodewrrior@aol.com Mon Jun 29 00:53:14 1998 Subject: Re: Flattening waterstones I found a good shortcut.I just used my "supersander" (see tool&supplies on the Rodmakers site) toflatten my #1000 waterstone then finished with the sandpaper as is theusualmethod of flattening. Beats the heck out of using the paper alone...about 5minutes to do the job. Rob Hoffhines from ragnarig@integrityol.com Mon Jun 29 02:54:24 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A9E41B3D0080; Mon, 29 Jun 1998 01:01:40 PDT Subject: Re: tapers after the fact That's about enough for one posting. I've got to go out in the yard andcast that Driggs some more! Davy Davy, this is such a nice rod doing too much of that will make you goblind.;-) Tony Aw Tony, get a grip! Seriously, I think the coolest thing was when I took it down to the riverthis morning; it was quite windy, so I put a 3wt line on it and cast fartherthan I've ever cast with anything near comparable equipment. And withverylittle effort. I can't believe I left those sections sitting in the corner for so longwithout wrapping the guides on. I always get jazzed when I finish a newrodbut I just about can't keep my hands off this one. Thank you PHY! Andthank you Tony and Wayne and everybody who had a part in making thistaperknown to me. It's 0100 now, Sunrise at about 0500, got time to tie some #14 sulphurs. Davy from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Jun 29 05:01:30 1998 Mon, 29 Jun 1998 18:01:21 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: tapers after the fact /***** lots of anti core rodmaking drivel sniped re: PHY Driggs riverspecial Davey says:Seriously, I think the coolest thing was when I took it down to the riverthis morning; it was quite windy, so I put a 3wt line on it and castfartherthan I've ever cast with anything near comparable equipment. And withverylittle effort. The Driggs realy is one of those tapers that just has it. The first time I lawn cast one was with a DT4, like you with a stiff breeze into my face.I striped some line onto the ground, gave the rod a single back cast and just shot all the line laying on the ground. I had one of those "whew, this issome rod" kind of feelings. It wasn't the length of line that was shot so much as the ease of it all. Simply a lovely rod to fish, as long as you like paras. I like a WF3 best with this rod. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from harry37@epix.net Mon Jun 29 06:57:15 1998 SMTP id HAA10713 Subject: Makers Rod Who won? Greg from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Jun 29 09:06:56 1998 head.globalcom.net(8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id KAA19036; Mon, 29 Jun 1998 10:06:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Makers Rod To AllI thought there would be a posting from Wayne on this but here itgoes: Ticket nr 302 won - Dave Shamhart in Washington State. BTW the Makers Rod idea raised approx $24000 dollars all total.There was approx 365 tickets sold for over $18000 and the original artwork went foraround$4300 with remaining tickets being sold for the Artwork only. Lets all give Wayne congradulations for a job well done and theamountto money raised for the resource and stream restoration. Overall theTBBBQ-IV brought in over $30000 this year - an amazing amount. It also was one hell of a good time to be had by all. Pictures of theeventshould be showing up on the Troutbums homepage. Chris On Mon, 29 Jun 1998 07:57:13 -0400, Greg Kuntz wrote: Who won? Greg from OBorge@aiss.uic.edu Mon Jun 29 11:07:50 1998 Subject: 6'0" 4wt "Leonard" Taper. Carlos, et al,This is what I know about that 6' 4wt six sided rod I had at Grayrock. 6' 3wt 2/1 Blanks made by Bob Taylor (Leonard\T&T),finish work by Steve Blake (Ore.).Leonard "Hunt" colored cane, Belinger reel seat,short T&T style ferrules, Pre-1950 Perfection guides,wrap olive\gold, tipped burgandy. Olaf BorgeSystems Programmer/System SoftwareUniversity of Illinois/AISS/CNO312/996-5212 from rcurry@top.monad.net Mon Jun 29 11:47:56 1998 Subject: Re: tapers after the fact David Riggs wrote: Dear Listers A few days ago, someone (Reed Curry? If not, apologies) asked ifanybodyhad ever built a rod to a taper and then miked the finished rod to checkadherence to the plan. Is that the crux of the biscuit? Davy,Actually what I said was "On another note, has anyone made a rod from a production maker's taper(Payne, Thomas, etc) and then compared at 1" intervals to the original?" I was not suggesting that the problem (if any) rose from the work ofthe artisan (you) but that the curves possible with a beveler or miller,as seen at 1" intervals, may not correspond to what is miked and thencreated on a steel planing form with intervals measured at 5". A planingform is going to create a simple spline curve between stations, thebeveler is not limited. I made this remark to indicate that, besides theadhesives, heat treating, flaming, cane quality, and all the othervariables, the planing form adds one more. So what does this mean in terms of casting quality? Nothing! Thecropof rods at Grayrock this year were even better than last, and most ofthem would put the average Payne or Leonard to shame. Some of the rodswere truly inspiring ( all of us were drooling over Fred Kretchman'srod, for example) and I can say that none of the rods of the "GoldenAge" that I have tried could surpass them.Sorry if my remark caused confusion.Best regards,Reed from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Jun 29 11:50:58 1998 head.globalcom.net(8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id MAA22348; Mon, 29 Jun 1998 12:50:27 -0400 Subject: Re: 6'0" 4wt "Leonard" Taper. OlafBob Taylor says it all - that why it was such a great rod. Chris On Mon, 29 Jun 1998 11:08:11 -0500, Borge, Olaf A. wrote: Carlos, et al,This is what I know about that 6' 4wt six sided rod I had at Grayrock. 6' 3wt 2/1 Blanks made by Bob Taylor (Leonard\T&T),finish work by Steve Blake (Ore.).Leonard "Hunt" colored cane, Belinger reel seat,short T&T style ferrules, Pre-1950 Perfection guides,wrap olive\gold, tipped burgandy. Olaf BorgeSystems Programmer/System SoftwareUniversity of Illinois/AISS/CNO312/996-5212 from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Jun 29 14:16:00 1998 head.globalcom.net(8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id PAA20788; Mon, 29 Jun 1998 15:15:05 -0400 boundary="_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.EVBUIG138764=_=_=_"Subject: JJ Lives Rod Taper --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.EVBUIG138764=_=_=_ To All In response to a number of requests I had at Grayling here is thetaper for the JJ livesrod. I included the file and also attached a copy for easy saving. JJ's rod - 7' 4wtPlaning Form Setting Report-- from Dimensions------------------------------------------------------------------------ Design Notes: This is a taper based upon JJ's rod. Original measurementswere taken over varnish and adjusted. The rod is believed tobe a Paul Young. There were several areas that I had to makeinterpretations of the taper and did some smoothing in hexrodto insure a good stress curve. This has turned out to be onesweet casting rod that a number of people commented upon. Whenyou build this rod please remember JJ while you do it.- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Basic Rod Design Parameters:Rod Length: 7 ft 0 in (= 84 inches) Action Length: 6 ft 3 in (= 75 inches) Line Weight: 4 Pieces: 2 Line Fished: 30 ft Tip Factor: 1.048 Ferrule Type: Standard Ferrule #1: Size 12/64; Wt 0.225 oz.; Rod Dim 11.72/64 @ 42 in Planing Form Adjustment 0.0010 --------------------------- --------------------------------------------- Station Rod Dimension Station Setting0 0.074 0.03805 0.082 0.042010 0.104 0.053015 0.116 0.059020 0.132 0.067025 0.148 0.075030 0.160 0.081035 0.172 0.087040 0.180 0.091045 0.188 0.095050 0.200 0.101055 0.216 0.109060 0.234 0.118065 0.260 0.131070 0.300 0.151075 0.350 0.1750------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ Chris --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.EVBUIG138764=_=_=_ 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 --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.EVBUIG138764=_=_=_-- from sjstill@indy.net Mon Jun 29 14:17:54 1998 Subject: Thomas stripper guide Hi All, Anyone know where I might find a close approximation of an F.E. Thomasagatestripping guide? Not sure of age of the rod, but it is a 9' "Special" ifthat helps. Steve Steve Stillabower from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Jun 29 14:42:39 1998 head.globalcom.net(8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id PAA26512; Mon, 29 Jun 1998 15:42:39 -0400 boundary="_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.EVBVW5138764=_=_=_"Subject: Leonard Tournament 8' 3 Piece 3wt. --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.EVBVW5138764=_=_=_ To All I also had a large number of requests for this taper on the rod I own. Here it is. Chris 8' 3 piece 3wt Leonard Tournament RodPlaning Form Setting Report-- from Dimensions------------------------------------------------------------------------ Basic Rod Design Parameters:Rod Length: 8 ft 0 in (= 96 inches) Action Length: 7 ft 4 in (= 88 inches) Line Weight: 3 Pieces: 3 Line Fished: 30 ft Tip Factor: 1.048 Ferrule Type: Standard Ferrule #1: Size 10/64; Wt 0.162 oz.; Rod Dim 9.57/64 @ 32 inFerrule #2: Size 15/64; Wt 0.358 oz.; Rod Dim 15.05/64 @ 64 in Planing Form Adjustment 0.0010 --------------------------- --------------------------------------------- Station Rod Dimension Station Setting0 0.052 0.02705 0.062 0.032010 0.076 0.039015 0.096 0.049020 0.118 0.060025 0.132 0.067030 0.144 0.073035 0.158 0.080040 0.174 0.088045 0.184 0.093050 0.198 0.100055 0.208 0.105060 0.224 0.113065 0.238 0.120070 0.246 0.124075 0.264 0.133080 0.284 0.143085 0.308 0.155090 0.391 0.1965------------------------------------------------------------------------ from gwr@seanet.com Mon Jun 29 14:50:26 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA18222 for; Mon, 29 Jun 1998 Subject: Re: Thomas stripper guide Hi Steve, You may want to check out my web site (http://www.goldenwitch.com) tosee if you can find what you're looking for. I have a large number ofvariously colored agate and agatine guides and tip tops in stock. Forfurther discussion, please contact me off-list at gwr@seanet.com.Hopefully I can be of assistance. Thanks, Russ GoodingGolden Witch Rods Hi All, Anyone know where I might find a close approximation of an F.E. Thomasagatestripping guide? Not sure of age of the rod, but it is a 9' "Special" ifthat helps. Steve Steve Stillabower from mstevens@ptdprolog.net Mon Jun 29 15:35:35 1998 0000 Subject: Orvis Impregnated Deluxe Hello, Does anybody have a 60's Orvis catalog showing the Deluxe 6 1/2' 2 piecerod. I bought one this weekend at the fleamarket but the seat and grip havebeen badly replaced. The serial number is #32037 on the tips and butt. Itis not a kit rod. It has a .172 ferrule and casts a 4wt perfectly. I guessI may be a flea rod. Any help appreciated. Anybody need a "Radio"rod as discussed here last week or so? Thanks, Mike Michael StevensRR 1 Box 307CEffort PA 18330 610 681 5670 mstevens@ptdprolog.net Stevens Sight & Tool CoMaker of fine sights for antique single shot target rifles Collector of Heddon and other bamboo flyrods and casting rods. HeddonRiverRunt Spooks and Coxe baitcasting reels. from sjstill@indy.net Mon Jun 29 15:49:47 1998 Subject: thread for Thomas Hi All, Well, I have egg on my face - I found the stripper guide [with my foot -guide is fine] It had evidently gotten lost in the bag or tube. Now thequestion, what color silk to re-wrap it with. All I have access to isAnlgers Workshop catalog, but can't tell from the colors shown which is'right'. The wraps on the rod look brown to me, but 'brown' is a bit broadI'm sure. Looking at the underside of the thread where it is torn away, it*could* be medium brown. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated! Regards, Steve Steve Stillabower from eestlow@srminc.com Mon Jun 29 15:57:42 1998 1998)) id 86256632.007275D6; Mon, 29 Jun 1998 15:50:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Orvis Impregnated Deluxe I believe Orvis can give you a fair amount of information if you call themwith the serial number.-Ed Estlow mstevens@ptdprolog.net (Michael Stevens) on 06/29/98 03:36:52 PM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Orvis Impregnated Deluxe Hello, Does anybody have a 60's Orvis catalog showing the Deluxe 6 1/2' 2 piecerod. I bought one this weekend at the fleamarket but the seat and grip havebeen badly replaced. The serial number is #32037 on the tips and butt. Itis not a kit rod. It has a .172 ferrule and casts a 4wt perfectly. I guessI may be a flea rod. Any help appreciated. Anybody need a "Radio"rod as discussed here last week or so? Thanks, Mike Michael StevensRR 1 Box 307CEffort PA 18330 610 681 5670 mstevens@ptdprolog.net Stevens Sight & Tool CoMaker of fine sights for antique single shot target rifles Collector of Heddon and other bamboo flyrods and casting rods. HeddonRiverRunt Spooks and Coxe baitcasting reels. from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon Jun 29 16:15:39 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA130044928; Mon, 29 Jun 1998 14:15:28 -0700 Subject: RE: thread for Thomas Steve, I have a supply of various brown silk thread from turn of the century or so. Belding-Cordecelli, Rice, Champion, Gudebrod, Belding-Hemingway and others. Lots of brown varieties. If anyone can provide a color number from some book or catalog I could see if I have it. The thread is size 00 and A in 50 yrd. spools mostly. I assume the early rodmakers used this same type of silk thread, but nailing down the precise brown color without documentation could bepretty tough. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from flyfisher@nextdim.com Mon Jun 29 16:29:30 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id A566146A014E; Mon, 29 Jun 1998 14:21:42 PDT Subject: Re: thread for Thomas Hi All, I too am looking for that same color and have been told that it iscalled Root Beer brown.Sincerely,Dell Coppock,"IN THE GREAT NORTHWEST"http://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail flyfisher@nextdim.com- ----Original Message----- Subject: thread for Thomas Hi All, Well, I have egg on my face - I found the stripper guide [with my foot -guide is fine] It had evidently gotten lost in the bag or tube. Now thequestion, what color silk to re-wrap it with. All I have access to isAnlgers Workshop catalog, but can't tell from the colors shown which is'right'. The wraps on the rod look brown to me, but 'brown' is a bit broadI'm sure. Looking at the underside of the thread where it is torn away, it*could* be medium brown. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated! Regards, Steve Steve Stillabower from CALucker@aol.com Mon Jun 29 16:54:58 1998 Subject: Re: thread for Thomas Some Specials came in red, in which case Rice 114 is the original thread.The Dark brown used on a Browntone is best matched with Corticelli 5555. Chris Lucker from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Jun 29 16:58:33 1998 Subject: Re: Makers Rod As an addition to Chris' post - I would personally like to thank all thosewho helped to make this project a success - the makers - those thatpurchasedtickets and those that helped to promote it - a Great Job by all. As a side note - TTBBBQ IV I think was the best ever in respect to boththe money raised for the rivers and the good time had by all - I might aswell tell now - I ended up being one of two folks that were tossed intotheAuSable - my toss only raised $150 - while Vic Edwards' raised $400. -Havingbeen tossed I can personally attest to the drying ability of the AquaDesignshirts - great shirt.Grayrock 98 - there were rumors of several larger than 20" fish beingcaught - as a TroutBum I wouldn't believe any of the numerous picturesthatmight be shown - with the popularity of computer photo retouching thesethingscan be faked - and after all the fishing really couldn't be that good. from sats@gte.net Mon Jun 29 17:20:19 1998 Subject: Re: Tokyo Cane Rods men brought them back after the war. Everyone I've seen was in awooden boxjust as you described. All of the ones I saw were Colored, usually red. Ithink they used a laquare. from what I understand, these rods are notworthmuch.$50.00 usually is about it. They are good for one thing. You can see what happens when you changethetaper on them. If you screw it up, who cares. I've got a few that I playwith. One came out looking very nice. It casts a little soft and is a bit tipheavy. I've got another one I'll work on one of theses days. Anyone have any idea if the Cain was actually Tonkin, or just what everwashandy. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from ragnarig@integrityol.com Mon Jun 29 18:28:47 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A4FC20FF006A; Mon, 29 Jun 1998 16:36:28 PDT Subject: Re: tapers after the fact Davy,Actually what I said was "On another note, has anyone made a rod from a production maker's taper(Payne, Thomas, etc) and then compared at 1" intervals to the original?" I was not suggesting that the problem (if any) rose from the work ofthe artisan (you) but that the curves possible with a beveler or miller,as seen at 1" intervals, may not correspond to what is miked and thencreated on a steel planing form with intervals measured at 5". A planingform is going to create a simple spline curve between stations, thebeveler is not limited. I made this remark to indicate that, besides theadhesives, heat treating, flaming, cane quality, and all the othervariables, the planing form adds one more.So what does this mean in terms of casting quality? Nothing! The cropof rods at Grayrock this year were even better than last, and most ofthem would put the average Payne or Leonard to shame. Some of the rodswere truly inspiring ( all of us were drooling over Fred Kretchman'srod, for example) and I can say that none of the rods of the "GoldenAge" that I have tried could surpass them.Sorry if my remark caused confusion.Best regards,Reed Aw shoot, Reed, you know what? I just went back and re-miked that rodandall the stations are precisely as given in the taper. Wonder what couldhave made me think my work was so sloppy. ;-) But really, when one sees all the information being shared by theinternational gang of true believers we've got on this list (and elsewhere)and contrast it with the "old masters", who guarded their "secrets" likemisers' gold, and poor wretches like myself, working in a vacuum andimproving their herd only by trial-and-error, one begins to think that thebest is certainly yet to come- or is perhaps already here. Davy from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Jun 29 19:03:34 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Orvis Impregnated Deluxe Good luck getting info from Orvis on a rod. I tried for a year to find outabout a rod I had and all I got was the run around, and I was an Orvisdealerat the time. Bret from sats@gte.net Mon Jun 29 19:35:21 1998 Subject: Re: tapers after the fact was it true about 64ths? But really, when one sees all the information being shared by theinternational gang of true believers we've got on this list (andelsewhere)and contrast it with the "old masters", who guarded their "secrets" likemisers' gold, and poor wretches like myself, working in a vacuum andimproving their herd only by trial-and-error, one begins to think that thebest is certainly yet to come- or is perhaps already here. Is it true the old masters used 64th inch ? Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from flyfisher@nextdim.com Mon Jun 29 20:10:14 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id A8FF14150148; Mon, 29 Jun 1998 18:01:51 PDT Subject: Re: tapers after the fact was it true about 64ths? Yes I have seen some of the older books on tapers that were given in64ths,the smallest divisions on a machinists scale.Dell Coppock,"IN THE GREAT NORTHWEST"http://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail flyfisher@nextdim.com-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: tapers after the fact was it true about 64ths? But really, when one sees all the information being shared by theinternational gang of true believers we've got on this list (andelsewhere)and contrast it with the "old masters", who guarded their "secrets" likemisers' gold, and poor wretches like myself, working in a vacuum andimproving their herd only by trial-and-error, one begins to think that thebest is certainly yet to come- or is perhaps already here. Is it true the old masters used 64th inch ? Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from rclarke@eou.edu Mon Jun 29 21:23:24 1998 Subject: Grayrock I took the liberty of posting some pictures that Chris Bogart sent me ofthe Grayrock gathering. There are on: http://www.eou.edu/fao/tbb.htm I wish I could have attended, it looked fun! Thank Chris for the nicephotos!(I messed with them a bit) Robert Clarke from channer@hubwest.com Mon Jun 29 21:59:51 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A505181800EA; Mon, 29 Jun 1998 21:01:25 MDT Subject: Re: Leonard Tournament 8' 3 Piece 3wt. At 03:38 PM 6/29/98 -0400, you wrote:To All I also had a large number of requests for this taper on the rod I own.Here it is. Chris 8' 3 piece 3wt Leonard Tournament RodPlaning Form Setting Report-- from Dimensions------------------------------------------------------------------------ Chris; Thanks for posting these tapers. Could you also send me a bucket full oftime so that I can build them?Seriously, tho, what does the .001 planingform adjustment mean, when I do get time to build these rods, I don't wantto screw them up any more than I will anyway.John Channer from ghinde@inconnect.com Mon Jun 29 22:38:11 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Tokyo Cane Rods Before going out-of-business about umteen years ago, one of the largersporting goods stores here in Salt Lake City sold those rods (box and all) and the store's price tag was on the box wraping. After refinishing a fewof these rods my $0.02 is that they are not worth much more than the$4.79now. GeorgeGreys River Rod Co.ghinde@inconnect.com ---------- Subject: Tokyo Cane Rods A neighbor showed a rod to me and asked if I could tell her about itsvalue. Can any of you help me? The rod was bought by her husband when hewas in Japan after WWII. The label says "Tokyo" on a small oval labelprinted in gold ink on a black background. The rod itself is a bitdifferent in that it can be assembled as a three piece, 9 foot rod with twotips or it can be assembled with a different midsection as a 6 foot rodthat is more like a baitfishing rod. It comes in a fitted wooden box. Thebox lid has a sliding lid that opens up sections fitted with some verybright, gaudy flies. I do not recognize the patterns, perhaps they are forcarp? Other sections hold leaders, bait hooks and bobbers. It is in nearnew condition and judging from the ferrules, it looks liked the rod wasonly fitted up and fished a few times. I did not cast it so I can not sayhow good the action is. This is not really about rod building but my thanks to anyone who can helpme give her some info. PO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622-8585, Fax 208- 726-0191 from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Mon Jun 29 23:23:40 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with ESMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Orvis Impregnated Deluxe I have a 1968 catalog...it doesn't have the Deluxe but it does have theFlea (6-1/2', 2 pc, #4).It has a B&W photo showing the fittings as being identical to the MiteyMite (double slidingbands, knurled aluminum, over cork, with the aluminum butt plate). Ihaven't looked at thisyear's Orvis catalog, but it sounds like stuff they still sell. Hope this helps,George Bourke ----------From: Michael Stevens Subject: Orvis Impregnated DeluxeDate: Monday, June 29, 1998 1:36 PM Hello, Does anybody have a 60's Orvis catalog showing the Deluxe 6 1/2' 2 piecerod. I bought one this weekend at the fleamarket but the seat and griphavebeen badly replaced. The serial number is #32037 on the tips and butt. Itis not a kit rod. It has a .172 ferrule and casts a 4wt perfectly. IguessI may be a flea rod. Any help appreciated. Anybody need a "Radio"rod as discussed here last week or so? Thanks, Mike Michael StevensRR 1 Box 307CEffort PA 18330 610 681 5670 mstevens@ptdprolog.net Stevens Sight & Tool CoMaker of fine sights for antique single shot target rifles Collector of Heddon and other bamboo flyrods and casting rods. HeddonRiverRunt Spooks and Coxe baitcasting reels. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Jun 30 04:14:09 1998 Tue, 30 Jun 1998 17:13:39 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Tokyo Cane Rods On Mon, 29 Jun 1998, George wrote: Before going out-of-business about umteen years ago, one of the largersporting goods stores here in Salt Lake City sold those rods (box and all) and the store's price tag was on the box wraping. After refinishing afewof these rods my $0.02 is that they are not worth much more than the$4.79now. My first (unfortunate) experience with cane rods was one of these things. It was in a purple velvet lined box and look pretty good and cast prettybad.It was my dad's and I went bass fishing with it. I caught a fish and broke it when the fish snaged me. I felt bad about it and looked into fixing it which taught me just how bad the rod was and how much fun making decent cane rods is, so I guess all the right things happened. I rided the world of rod that prob caused every person to cast it write off cane rods as a bad joke, started making rods and replaced the broken rod with one you can cast. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Jun 30 07:03:54 1998 head.globalcom.net(8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id IAA26385; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 08:03:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Leonard Tournament 8' 3 Piece 3wt. John I add .001 to the half dimension of the taper for the enamel on therod when I build for setting the final form. Later I take off the enamel and it allcomes out right. ChrisOn Mon, 29 Jun 1998 20:54:10, john channer wrote: At 03:38 PM 6/29/98 -0400, you wrote:To All I also had a large number of requests for this taper on the rod I own.Here it is. Chris 8' 3 piece 3wt Leonard Tournament RodPlaning Form Setting Report-- from Dimensions------------------------------------------------------------------------ Chris; Thanks for posting these tapers. Could you also send me a bucket full oftime so that I can build them?Seriously, tho, what does the .001 planingform adjustment mean, when I do get time to build these rods, I don'twantto screw them up any more than I will anyway.John Channer from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Jun 30 07:27:03 1998 head.globalcom.net(8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id IAA01096; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 08:26:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Grayrock Robert I have sent you some more pictures of Grayrock including the nowfamous picture of theWayne Emerger spotted on the Au Sable. Also some of the crew having funat the TBBBQ-IV. Also included is a picture of the rodmakers present who contributed to theMakers Rod. So havefun with these. Chris On Mon, 29 Jun 1998 19:21:54 -0700, Robert Clarke wrote: I took the liberty of posting some pictures that Chris Bogart sent me ofthe Grayrock gathering. There are on: http://www.eou.edu/fao/tbb.htm I wish I could have attended, it looked fun! Thank Chris for the nicephotos!(I messed with them a bit) Robert Clarke from rcurry@top.monad.net Tue Jun 30 08:34:42 1998 Subject: Re: tapers after the fact was it true about 64ths? Terry L. Kirkpatrick wrote:Is it true the old masters used 64th inch ? Terry,It depends on what we mean by "old masters". The Paynes, Leonard,Thomas, and others, used thousandths, usually at 1" intervals. Sometapers recorded in older books are in 64ths, but these were taken fromother makers' rods, I believe.Best regards,Reed from Marty.Ball@noaa.gov Tue Jun 30 09:19:40 1998 RFC822 Gateway); Tue, 30Jun 1998 10:19:30 -0400Content-Identifier: 02C773598F3EC01AContent-Return: Allowed Subject: Paul Young Ace I have just run across a Paul Young Ace fly rod in very rough condition butI know nothing about it. Could anyone give me more information? It's not castable as is so i cant check out the action. what woulkd be a reasonable value on a rod like this. The cork is worn and hook eaten, guides aremissing and it appears that ferrules (of the spigot type, at least not super swissor super Z) have been rewrapped and maybe reworked. Marty from gwbarnes@gwi.net Tue Jun 30 13:09:03 1998 Subject: Food for Thought Last week I let a fishing acquaintance fish with one of my fivesided rods. He fell in a brook, bridging two fairly massive rocks withthe rod.Later in the day, while fishing another brook, he snapped the rod off atthe buttend of the ferrule. My guess is that the rod was partially broken in thefall. Thisexperience started wheels turning. If my calculations are correct,inscribing a circle ina hexagon, which is what happens when fitting a ferrule, cuts away 9.3%of the cross-sectionalarea of the rod, all outer power fibers. When a circle is inscribed in apentagon, those outside fibers lost represent 13.5% of the crosssectional area. As a side issue, Charlie Hisey, who many of you know, was inducted intothe Northern Maine Bunny Club while fishing Saint John's River andAllegash waters last week. Charlie can explain when you see him again. from piscatorialpursuits@ibm.net Tue Jun 30 17:13:30 1998 out4.ibm.net(8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA75560 for ;Tue, 30 Jun 1998 22:13:26GMT Subject: test only-do not read boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006E_01BDA439.D41B6C20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_006E_01BDA439.D41B6C20 test =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DKen Holder skyboss@ibm.netpiscatorialpursuits@ibm.net "If fishing is like religion, then flyfishing is high church" "Flyfishing is such great fun..........it really ought to be done in =bed"=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ------=_NextPart_000_006E_01BDA439.D41B6C20 test =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= Holder skyboss@ibm.netpiscatorialpursuits@ibm.net "If fishing is like religion, = flyfishing is high church" "Flyfishing is such great = bed"=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ------=_NextPart_000_006E_01BDA439.D41B6C20-- from rclarke@eou.edu Tue Jun 30 18:59:28 1998 Subject: test-delete Just testing-no postings lately from rclarke@eou.edu Tue Jun 30 19:27:48 1998 Subject: test another test-last one didn't work from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Tue Jun 30 20:23:37 1998 Subject: Grayrock '98 Tapers Grayrock's over :-( and, now that I've caught up on some of thehoney-do's after the better part of a week away from home, I thought I'dstart posting the tapers from this year's mic-o-rama. Six rods weremeasured by myself, Reed Curry, Carlos Santos, and Miles Tiernan withinterference err.. assistance by a host of others. Usually one guy micedand one recorded. We swapped around. One caveat, not every one mic's a rodthe same way. Most were miced in 5" stations with the rod assembled,prettymuch what we're used to seeing, but some measure each sectionseparatelymeasuring from the end of the ferrule or from where the bamboo startsunderthe ferrule. I'll start with the conventionally measured rods first, thendo the other rods in a later post. We miced the following:1. A 6',2piece,3wt. owned by Olaf Borge an incrediblysweet little rod.The blanks designed & made by Bob Taylor and finished restorations)2. A 6', 2piece, 4wt Quad. Almost everyone reallyliked this rod. Those that didn't thought it was a little buggy-whip. 3. A 6'6', 2 piece 3wt. by Fred Kretchman. This is therod eveyone fell in love with. This is a rod that when you start castingyou start grinning. Medium/fast4. A 8', 2 piece, 5wt F.E. Thomas owned by Reed Curry.5. A 9',3piece, 3wt Montague that we caught Carloscasting (Carlos makes 4' rods and never touchs anything over 6'!) This is areally pleasant medium action rod that youcould cast all day. It was also capable of casting a foot off the wateracross the river and dropping a flyunder an overhanging bush. Carlos wanted this taper!! 6. A 10',3piece, 6wt. B.F. Nichols owned by Reed Currythat Kim Fairchild renamed "The Dr. Kim-Bob Dream Machine"! A medium action wet-fly action rod that pretty muchcasts itself. I'll post the raw data and you can average the flats as you see fit.Everything was measured over varnish. Here we go.... Bob Taylor built/Steve Blake finished 6',2piece,4wt. Leonard hunt coloredcane, short Thomas&Thomas ferrules.Measured over varnish!!! 0" .055, .054, .0555" .0675, .0695, .069510" .0855, .0875, .08915" .102, .1045, .101520" .1175, .1180, .1135 25" .125, .1305, .131530" .1360, .1355, .1395363/4 .140, .140,. 139540" .1705, .1630, .171545" .1785, .1810, .182050" .196, .1955, .192555" .2165, .2115, .211060" .2595, .2495, .259061" .2820, .2850, .2910 (Swelled butt)Grip Guide spacing w/ rod assembled... 4, 87/8, 14, 20, 26, 321/2, 397/8,473/4(stripper).---------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------- Fred Kretchman 6'6", 2piece, 3wt. Over Varnish!!1' .0695, .0675, .06805" .0785, .0785, .0785 (way to go!!)10" .081, .0805, guide15" .103, .101, .103520" .1195, .1165, .120025" .134, .1335, .13230" .1485, .1475, .14735" .162, .160, .1605371/4 .1565, .1590, guide41" .183, .183, .18345" .1865, .185, guide46" .195, .192, .19550" .2065, .207, .20456" .2195, .2215, .22260" .228, .230, .226565 .2315, .237, .237671/2 .237, .240, .2415 Guide Spacing.. tip... 47/8, 103/8, 163/8, 227/8, 2913/16, 37/38... BUTT from the end of the ferrule.. 65/8, 161/2 ( stripper).---------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------- Dr. Kim-Bob's Dream Machine 10' 3piece 6wt. B.F. Nichols Hard rubber reelseat, w/ intermediates 1" .079, .0845, .08355" .095, .0935, .092510" .110, .1085, .1115143/4 .1165, .185, .11020" .130, .125, .127525" .142, .1425, .144530" .156, .157, .15435" .166, .164, .163381/2 .1665, .174, .17143' .1835, .193, .18643" .1835, .193, .18645" .188, .1955, .198550' .2035, .2045, .202541/2 .210, .220, .213560" .228, .232, .23565" .238, .2395, .243570" .2515, .2575, .250575" .263, .262, .265781/2 .262, .2635, .271 ( at the ferrule)821/2 .285, .2835, .2945 (under ferrule guide)85" .301, .2995, .30190" .3125, .310, .308595" .315, .327, .3115100" .3345, .3285, .3425105" .349, .346, .351108" .373, .3645, .370 swelled butt no guide spacing Ok..that's it for tonight.. I"m getting cross-eyed .. too many little ###.Post the rest tomorrow. Grayrock was GREAT!!! If you haven't made it yet ..Please put it on yourcalender. Judging by the quality of rods next year should be unreal and Grayrock 2000...Cosmic!! Regards, Dennis I saw the pics there were 20"+ fish caught, unfortunately not by me :-( ." You should have been here yesterday." from channer@hubwest.com Tue Jun 30 21:14:09 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id ABCEF230116; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 20:15:42 MDT Subject: Re: Leonard Tournament 8' 3 Piece 3wt. At 07:59 AM 6/30/98 -0400, you wrote:John I add .001 to the half dimension of the taper for the enamel on therodwhen I build for setting the final form. Later I take off the enamel and it allcomes out right. Chris;Thanks for telling me. I have gotten into the habit off sanding my stripsbefore final planing, so I guess I shouldn't add the .001 John from channer@hubwest.com Tue Jun 30 21:14:19 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id ABD9C4A00D6; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 20:15:53 MDT Subject: Re: test At 05:26 PM 6/30/98 -0700, you wrote:another test-last one didn't work Robert;It must be at your end, I got both tests loud and clear. John Channer from rclarke@eou.edu Tue Jun 30 21:15:59 1998 Subject: updated page I was knocked off the list, so I don't know if folks liked the page or not.I have updated it with more pics from Chris Bogart. My appologies againto anyone I may have offended (I messed with the images a little). Let meknow what you think. I have more! Robert Clarke http://www.eou.edu/fao.tbb.htm from rclarke@eou.edu Tue Jun 30 21:17:17 1998 Subject: Fw: updated page Correction, that should be: http://www.eou.edu/fao/tbb.htm Sorry! ----------From: Robert Clarke Subject: updated pageDate: Tuesday, June 30, 1998 7:14 PM I was knocked off the list, so I don't know if folks liked the page ornot.I have updated it with more pics from Chris Bogart. My appologies againto anyone I may have offended (I messed with the images a little). Letmeknow what you think. I have more! Robert Clarke http://www.eou.edu/fao.tbb.htm