from ragnarig@integrityol.com Wed Jul 1 00:55:06 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A0F62A301B2; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 23:02:30 PDT Subject: Re: updated page Dear Robert Page looks great. Thanks! But could someone please let us know (thosewhodon't already) who it is we are looking at in those pictures? Sadly, someof us may never get there in person. Davy from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Jul 1 09:30:36 1998 Subject: Re: updated page Davy, I only know the identity of a few of them. Chris Bogart took thephotos. Maybe folks who want to be identified will let the list knowwhichshot they are in. Glad you liked the page. I had fun with it. Robert Clarke ----------From: David Riggs Subject: Re: updated pageDate: Tuesday, June 30, 1998 11:07 PM Dear Robert Page looks great. Thanks! But could someone please let us know (thosewhodon't already) who it is we are looking at in those pictures? Sadly,someof us may never get there in person. Davy from RVenneri@aol.com Wed Jul 1 14:35:40 1998 Subject: test This is a test No mail Today? from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Jul 1 15:37:13 1998 head.globalcom.net(8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id QAA10696; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 16:36:58 -0400 Subject: Node Bombs To Whom it May Concern Do you know how hard it is to restrain my rodmaking class fromsending Node Bombs? Seemslike somebody started this "tradition" a while back and it has gainedpopularity. Well sleeptight tonightand don't open any unmarked packages.. Chris P.S. You can check out their progress on my homepage. from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Wed Jul 1 18:54:46 1998 Subject: Payne Banty Anyone out there have the taper for a Payne banty?? Would be a 4'4"probably 2wt. There were only about 2 or 3 made. Have a friend looking forthe taper Thanks, Dennis from CampblRods@aol.com Wed Jul 1 20:40:57 1998 Subject: Quad tapers Does anyone have a 7' or 7 1/2' quad taper? Thanks Steve CampbellCampblRods@aol.com from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Thu Jul 2 06:05:54 1998 post.interalpha.net(8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id MAA30019 for ;Thu, 2 Jul 1998 12:12:34+0100 Subject: Re: TEST and note. Testing. I seem to have been bounced off the list: unless, that is, everyonehas gone fishing. Any me specific mails have failed to reach me for two days. John Cooper from ragnarig@integrityol.com Thu Jul 2 08:48:09 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A14C8DA0240; Thu, 02 Jul 1998 06:55:24 PDT Subject: Re: TEST and note. Testing. I seem to have been bounced off the list: unless, that is,everyonehas gone fishing. Any me specific mails have failed to reach me for two days. John Cooper John Read you Lima Charlie. Just a slow day, I guess. Davy from DEMARALON@aol.com Thu Jul 2 08:59:18 1998 Subject: Re: TEST and note. This happened to us a few weeks ago and it took two re-listing requestsbeforewe were re-instated. Patience and fortitude!! Harold Demarest from Nodewrrior@aol.com Thu Jul 2 09:12:21 1998 Subject: Re: Anybody need NS tubing? A rodmaker friend of mine got left holding the bag on a NS ferrule tubeorderthat was supposed to be split-the other guy backed out. Anyway, ifanybodywants some NS tubing for ferrules contact me for his name and ph#. I'msurehe'd let it go for a decent price.NIETHER PARTY IN THIS DEAL ARE LIST MEMBERS by the way. Rob from r.schiller@worldnet.att.net Thu Jul 2 14:14:49 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP Subject: Re: Anybody need NS tubing? -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Anybody need NS tubing? A rodmaker friend of mine got left holding the bag on a NS ferrule tubeorderthat was supposed to be split-the other guy backed out. Anyway, ifanybodywants some NS tubing for ferrules contact me for his name and ph#. I'msurehe'd let it go for a decent price.NIETHER PARTY IN THIS DEAL ARE LIST MEMBERS by the way. Rob Rob: Am very much interested R. Schiller5809Summit View LaneCrestwood Ky(502) 222 0586 If you give me his number I will call. Many thanks,Dick from chafferm@isd.net Thu Jul 2 14:35:15 1998 Subject: Hardy Rod boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BDA5C6.3974B760" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BDA5C6.3974B760 I Have a 7' Hardy - "CC" de France bamboo rod with the number: H 8006 on =the ring, on the handle near the real seat. It came in a partitioned =cloth bag with a pocket. Does anybody know how old or what the value of =this rod might be? Oh, by the way it has the original finish and it is =in excellent condition. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BDA5C6.3974B760 I Have a 7' Hardy - "CC"= bamboo rod with the number: H 8006 on the ring, on the handle near the = seat. It came in a partitioned cloth bag with a pocket. Does anybody = old or what the value of this rod might be? Oh, by the way it has the = finish and it is in excellent condition. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BDA5C6.3974B760-- from gwbarnes@gwi.net Thu Jul 2 15:10:36 1998 Subject: Re: Payne Banty dennis higham wrote: Anyone out there have the taper for a Payne banty?? Would be a 4'4"probably 2wt. There were only about 2 or 3 made. Have a friend lookingforthe taper Thanks, If all else fails, I have the taper for a 6' 2 wt designed with Histand'sprogram a few years back. Real exciting rod with a 12" to 14" brookie.Feelslike a trophy fish and the rod takes on about a semi-circularconfiguration.GWB Dennis from gwbarnes@gwi.net Thu Jul 2 15:14:27 1998 Subject: Re: Quad tapers CampblRods@aol.com wrote: Does anyone have a 7' or 7 1/2' quad taper?ThanksSteve CampbellCampblRods@aol.com As with the 2 WT, I've a taper produced with Histand's program. 7' for 5wt. Dimensions for both a single piece rod and for a two piece. I'vefished the single piece and think it both a good feeling and lucky rod.Charlie Hisey tried it a week ago and may want to comment.GWB from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Thu Jul 2 15:25:28 1998 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id IAA09345 for ;Fri, 3 Jul 1998 08:25:18+1200 Subject: Re: Hardy Rod Craig,The rod would have been made in 1956. The CC de France is one of the moresort after Hardy rods by collectors and is considered one of the "top of therange" models . Value has a lot to do with condition . Lawsons list two sales in their 1997price guide as $350 and $425 for rods in good-excellent condition howeverIhave seen a number listed for sale recently at prices more then 50% abovethat . Turner lists a sale at over $600 . The value will also be influenced $100-200 . I recall John saying he had bought one for 175 pounds( i think ) , in poorcondition but restorable , and considering he had a very good buy . Johnmayalso be more in touch with present British prices but it is probably worthmore then $600 in excellent condition with one tip . regards Ian Kearney At 02:32 PM 2/07/98 -0500, you wrote:I Have a 7' Hardy - "CC" de France bamboo rod with the number: H 8006 onthe ring, on the handle near the real seat. It came in a partitioned clothbag with a pocket. Does anybody know how old or what the value of thisrodmight be? Oh, "deleted "Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz from ragnarig@integrityol.com Thu Jul 2 16:00:06 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A69460A01B2; Thu, 02 Jul 1998 14:07:32 PDT Subject: Re: Quad tapers As with the 2 WT, I've a taper produced with Histand's program. 7' for 5wt. Dimensions for both a single piece rod and for a two piece. I'vefished the single piece and think it both a good feeling and lucky rod.Charlie Hisey tried it a week ago and may want to comment.GWB Dear George I, for one would love to see these tapers, if you wouldn't mind. Strong casting and good fish-fighting qualities are nice but "lucky" has tooutweigh them both :-) Davy from CampblRods@aol.com Thu Jul 2 17:25:53 1998 Subject: Re: Quad tapers George, I'd really like to see those quad tapers if you have time to postthem. I'm just getting into quads and would like to gather a few differenttapers to experiment with. Thanks for the reply!Steve CampbellBrewer,MECampblRods@aol.com from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Thu Jul 2 18:17:27 1998 (8.8.5/8.6.6) with Subject: Re: Hardy Rod On Thu, 2 Jul 1998, Craig Hafferman wrote: I Have a 7' Hardy - "CC" de France bamboo rod with the number: H 8006 onthe ring, on the handle near the real seat. It came in a partitionedcloth bag with a pocket. Does anybody know how old or what the value ofthis rod might be? Oh, by the way it has the original finish and it isin excellent condition. Hi Craig, I own that rod. Mine was built 1957, two tips with original tags. Wouldneed to know if your's is 1 or 2 tips to place a value on it. Regards, Bob Bob Perry \|/Fly Supplies: ::==,#=#*oFlytying materials (_ /|\Flyfishing equipmentRodbuilding componentsemail: flysupplies@yahoo.comhttp://www.mwflytyer.com/rightangle/http://www.VirtualFlybox.com/okumaEmail catalog by request. from Nodewrrior@aol.com Thu Jul 2 19:20:35 1998 Subject: Re: Anybody need NS tubing? Dick, Thanks for your interest. My friend is Homer Jennings of ColoSprings...EXCELLENT rodmaker. His ph# (719)573-8923. You can call tohammerout $$etc. I'm certain it's all ferrule tubing. It's due in any week now Iunderstand. Rob Hoffhines from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Jul 3 10:49:25 1998 Subject: Have a great 4th! All, Just got back from my UK vacation (didn't get a chance to link-up withJohn Cooper) and want to wish everyone (on the USA side of the pond) ahappy 4th. I hope to catch up on some overdue rod repair work over the long weekendand then will get to "enjoy" painting the spare bedroom over theremaining days off. Don Burns from cphisey@neca.com Fri Jul 3 11:15:42 1998 Subject: Re: Quad tapers At 04:00 PM 7/2/98 -0700, you wrote: CampblRods@aol.com wrote: George Barnes wrote:As with the 2 WT, I've a taper produced with Histand's program. 7' for 5wt. Dimensions for both a single piece rod and for a two piece. I'vefished the single piece and think it both a good feeling and lucky rod.Charlie Hisey tried it a week ago and may want to comment.GWB Well,I'm not sure if it was the rod or the fisherman that was lucky buttheone piece 7'of George's that I fished with is a fine casting rod,kicks out aline,short or long,with ease.It will be my 1st attempt at a quad rod,thoughI'll go for the 2 piece version(7'rod cases are a bit much for me)whenever Italk George out of the taper.A keeper for sure.Charles Hisey from cmj@post11.tele.dk Fri Jul 3 12:46:28 1998 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA42666 Subject: Sv: Hardy Rod boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01BDA6BB.89EDCC40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BDA6BB.89EDCC40 Fra: Craig Hafferman I Have a 7' Hardy - "CC" de France bamboo rod with the number: H = Hi Craig Try phoning House of Hardy, phone UK prefix 0665 510027 House of =Hardy, Countrystore and Museum. They are nice people. Have done so on a =number of occasions, and with succes. regards Carsten ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BDA6BB.89EDCC40 Fra: Craig Hafferman I Have a 7' Hardy - = bamboo rod with the number: H 8006 on the ring, Hi Craig Try phoning House of Hardy, = 0665 510027 House of Hardy, Countrystore and Museum. They are nice = Have done so on a number of occasions, and with succes. regards Carsten ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BDA6BB.89EDCC40-- from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Fri Jul 3 14:05:47 1998 Subject: Southern Rodmaker Gathering Friends, This will be going out next week. Since the idea was birthed here,I wanted to let you know first. If you can be present, or give apresentation, or help in any other way, please let me know so that Ican include that information in the publicity. I'd like to include,with your permission, names of those planning to attend. At thispoint there is no charge to anyone at all except me. If this getsmore structured, (like providing food) then break even only chargesmay become necessary.Let me know what you can do or bring. Also, any suggestions onhow to make this work better are welcome. Thanks,Harry Boyd (fbcwin@fsbnet.com) SOUTHERN BAMBOO RODMAKERS GATHERING A Southern Rodmakers Gathering will be held prior to the SouthernCouncil Federation of Fly Fishers Conclave at Mountain Home, Arkansas,October 2- 4,1988. This will be an informal gathering held at the Riverside Pavillionof Quarry State Park on the Norfork River, Thursday October 1, 1988.Plans are to gather 30+ rodmakers together, cast each other's rods,hear and see presentations from any and all volunteers, split someculms, plane some strips, demonstrate tools, swap equipment, askquestions, brag, laugh, eat, drink, and fish one of the best troutstreams in the world.All Rodmakers and potential rodmakers should make plans toattend. Bring all your rods and what tools you can carry, and learn from the other Rodmakers present.The Pavillion is equipped with a large BBQ pit available to anyonewho wants to cook. Bring your own food and drink, or make a quick runto the small town of Norfork to eat at one of the cafes.Hopes are that this will be the fore-runner of more formalgatherings in days to come. Many talented rodmakers live and work inthe Southern United States and have little opportunity to attendsimilar gatherings in other parts of the country. By holding thisfirst informal gathering we hope to develop an annual time and place Any Rodmaker interested in giving a presentation or demonstratingany area of bamboo rodmaking, please contact Harry Boyd at(318)435-4359 or (318)435-2278 (evenings). from "drobert@agt.net"@agt.net Fri Jul 3 19:55:08 1998 clgrps05.agt.net" ident:"IDENT-NOT-QUERIED [port 35137]") by mailgate.telusplanet.net withESMTP id ; Fri,3 Jul 1998 18:54:44 -0600 with SMTP id; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 18:53:49 -0600 Subject: Re: Makers Rod Unsubscribe WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: As an addition to Chris' post - I would personally like to thank allthosewho helped to make this project a success - the makers - those thatpurchasedtickets and those that helped to promote it - a Great Job by all. As a side note - TTBBBQ IV I think was the best ever in respect toboththe money raised for the rivers and the good time had by all - I might aswell tell now - I ended up being one of two folks that were tossed intotheAuSable - my toss only raised $150 - while Vic Edwards' raised $400. -Havingbeen tossed I can personally attest to the drying ability of the AquaDesignshirts - great shirt.Grayrock 98 - there were rumors of several larger than 20" fish beingcaught - as a TroutBum I wouldn't believe any of the numerous picturesthatmight be shown - with the popularity of computer photo retouching thesethingscan be faked - and after all the fishing really couldn't be that good. unsubscribe ASAP Drobert from emiller257@dataflo.net Fri Jul 3 20:31:10 1998 wddataflo.dataflo.net(8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA29777 for ;Fri, 3 Jul 1998 20:32:59 Subject: Re: Grayrock report Chris Bogart wrote: Rob Sorry to see you go - been fun. The Hex Hatch has been awesome - one Monster Hatch hasbeen going on - it is prime time up here right now - everyone had beenout fishing at night - Steve Southard had some pictures to post on thetrout bums homepage - but remember it is hex hatch time - everyoneone beenout late fishing (past midnight). The real festivities begin tomorrow but a number of people are herealready and it has been good fun - good rods - good fishing. Here is a small picture of the JJ rod and it's very first fish. Chris On Thu, 25 Jun 1998 01:10:25 EDT, Nodewrrior@aol.com wrote: Sadly today I had to leave Grayrock 98 to get back to my day gig...(ugh)Some things of interest to report on:The hex hatch is cooking along fine, alot of fish in the 13"-16" rangeand afew 20"s in the group!The maker rod got finished and looks teriffic! It is quite a movingexperince to hold the thing in your hands and see all the names inked oneachstrip...Chris Bogart's redoing of the "JJ Lives" taper is a splendid easy going,yetauthoritative 7' 4wt. The rod has tons of character and a surprisingreserveof power. Chris says Jerry will soon post the taper along with a niftyLeonardtournament 8' 3wt. Gentlemen, let's hope it's very soon!So many great rods to cast, Builders from as far away as Austria-AlexdoesGREAT work by the way, and a splendid fisherman as well-he got one ofthe 20+inchers. He and his friend Christoph (sp?) were tons of fun as they gottoexperience the warmth and silliness on the ol' American Trout Bumculture infull force!ALOT of people showed up today as I was sadly leaving, if anybody outthereis still deciding to go or not, pack yer car immediately and go!! Rob Hoffhines ---------------------------------------------------------------Chris, thanks for thereports. All of us that couldnt attend looked forward to the posts you sent and the pictures. Looks like everyone had a great time. Have a nice holiday! Ed M from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Sat Jul 4 03:43:00 1998 post.interalpha.net(8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id JAA05249 for ;Sat, 4 Jul 1998 09:50:08+0100 Subject: Re: Hardy Rod At 08:25 03/07/98 +1200, you wrote:Craig,The rod would have been made in 1956. The CC de France is one of themoresort after Hardy rods by collectors and is considered one of the "top oftherange" models . Value has a lot to do with condition . Lawsons list two sales in their1997price guide as $350 and $425 for rods in good-excellent conditionhowever Ihave seen a number listed for sale recently at prices more then 50%abovethat . Turner lists a sale at over $600 . The value will also be influenced $100-200 . I recall John saying he had bought one for 175 pounds( i think ) , in poorcondition but restorable , and considering he had a very good buy . Johnmayalso be more in touch with present British prices but it is probably worthmore then $600 in excellent condition with one tip . regards Ian Kearney At 02:32 PM 2/07/98 -0500, you wrote:I Have a 7' Hardy - "CC" de France bamboo rod with the number: H 8006 onthe ring, on the handle near the real seat. It came in a partitioned clothbag with a pocket. Does anybody know how old or what the value of thisrodmight be? Oh, "deleted "Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz I paid £150 for an 8', and that WAS a bargain. Most had one tip only, although I think Hardy's would have made additionaltips for anyone who specified them. $600 for an excellent rod with one tipsounds about right. The 7' would be less popular here, but, I guess, morepopular than the 8' in the States. I grass cast my eight-footer with temporary guides taped on (waiting forbronzed guides to arrive) and it's lovely. Slowish, but with a powerful andcontrolled sort of character. John Cooper from pinky@coslink.net Sat Jul 4 11:14:26 1998 Subject: Out of Date (Was Re: Makers Rod 99) You high-tech guys make me want to just puke. What is wrong with a boxof Crayolas ans some Big Chief , wide-lined paper? The kind of paperthat still has pieces of wood showing in it. That's for me. Dr.Kim-BobRO>Robert, RO>Actually you're not "out of date". Unless you own a Sinar-Leaf digitalRO>camera, AND are willing to lug around a computer, AND don't mind onlyRO>being able to take one photo every 3 minutes, you will get higherqualityRO>(and cheaper) from a $50 35mm camera and a refurbished Nikon LS-20RO>film scanner at $600. You'll get 2700 dpi OPTICAL scan quality (notRO>interpolated),RO>30 bit color depth, and save about $125,000 over the Sinar-Leaf. For$1000RO>in digital camera bucks, you only get about 1024x768 pixels vs.2700x4050RO>forRO>the $650 conventional / film scanner option. RO>George Bourke RO>----------RO>> From: Robert Clarke RO>> Subject: Re: Makers Rod 99RO>> Date: Saturday, June 20, 1998 1:11 PMRO>>RO>>RO>>RO>>RO>> I'll volunteer a page as well if needed. So I am a little out of date.RO>IRO>> don't even have a scanner yet! Have fun.RO>>RO>>RO>> Robert from rmoon@ida.net Sat Jul 4 21:37:16 1998 Subject: Re: test test only from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sun Jul 5 08:48:31 1998 0500 Subject: test Sorry for the bandwidth. Is the list working? Did I get bumped again?Or is everyone with their families for the holidays?Harry Boyd from channer@hubwest.com Sun Jul 5 08:51:26 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A534239E0152; Sun, 05 Jul 1998 07:52:52 MDT Subject: Vince Marinaro Hi Guys!I just finished reading all of the exerpts from The Ring of the Rise onFlyanglersonline.Very interesting. Is there more on rodbuilding in thebook itself? Also, has anyone figured out what one of Vince's taperswould look like? John Channer from duke746@email.msn.com Sun Jul 5 10:16:29 1998 SMTPSVC;Sun, 5 Jul 1998 08:15:51 -0700 Subject: test This just a test to see if my system is working from RVenneri@aol.com Sun Jul 5 11:15:54 1998 Subject: Re: test HarryI think everything is working OK everyone must be fishing but me and youBob VVenneri's Custom Components21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882 from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Jul 5 15:57:18 1998 Subject: Re: Have a great 4th! Don,i am glad to see I am not the only one painting over the 4TH.Bret from anglport@con2.com Sun Jul 5 16:51:56 1998 Subject: Re: test Bob,Nah, I'm here too. Ya wanna have a gabfest? We could do a reading of ThreeMen in a Tub....Since I'm off for the summer I try to make it easier onmyself and the rest of the guys and go out only on weekdays. That way Ionlyhave to contend with the retirees astream!Just a-sittin' and a- monitorin',Art At 12:14 PM 7/5/98 EDT, you wrote:HarryI think everything is working OK everyone must be fishing but me and youBob VVenneri's Custom Components21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882 from rhicks@d.umn.edu Sun Jul 5 20:11:52 1998 mail.d.umn.edu (8.8.6.Beta3/8.8.3) with SMTP id UAA28670 for; Sun, Subject: Payne Tapers I cast a Payne 102 taper at the Grayrock gathering a week ago and reallyliked it. I was wondering if anyone had the taper for this rod or the Payne204, 205 or 206? Thanks for any help. Randall Hicks from parkerdh@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Mon Jul 6 00:15:48 1998 with ESMTP id XAA53442 Sun, 5 Jul 1998 23:15:43 -0600 (parkerdh@localhost) with SMTP id XAA51052 Sun, 5 Jul 1998 23:15:41 -0600 Subject: Re: Payne Tapers Randall, a Payne 104 was recenly posted by someone a week or two ago.This is an 8 1/2 ' taper similar to the one you seek. I'm sure Iprinted it out so if you can't find it I'll look it up for you. Let meknow if you obtain information on the 102. David Parker On Sun, 5 Jul 1998, randall hicks wrote: I cast a Payne 102 taper at the Grayrock gathering a week ago and reallyliked it. I was wondering if anyone had the taper for this rod or thePayne204, 205 or 206? Thanks for any help. Randall Hicks from tom@cet-inc.com Mon Jul 6 07:38:59 1998 Subject: Re: Vince Marinaro JohnSince the beginning of this year, a small group of us in Central PA havebeen negotiating with representatives of the Marinaro family in anattemptto acquire the Marinaro Collection to be the cornerstone of a Fly FishingCenter and Museum in Central PA. We have recently received a letter fromtheMarinaro attorney providing an agreement in principal for the transfer ofthe Marinaro collection. We have until December of 1998 to form ournon-profit organization and gather financial support for our new Center.Those of us who have started this effort are active in two local TUChapters(Cumberland Valley and Doc Fritchey). This collection is impressive and,with the exception of the Halford collection in England, perhaps the finestin the world. Pennsylvania also has many other fly fishing notables thatcanbe featured in a Museum. The center will also serve as an educationalcenter Now to the rods and tapers. There are about 15 rods in the collection, afewof which I have had the opportunity to cast. They are wonderful rods,especially the shorter ones made in later years. One of our goals is topublish a book on Vince's rods including the tapers to generate funds forthe new center. A few fellow rod makers from the East have offered tohelpin this effort. I have attached pictures of two of Vince's small 1970'srods, the Guppy and the Guppy Jr. (I hope adding photo files does not causetwo much of a technological incident for the list). Anyone's thoughts or suggestions are welcome. You can email me directlyifyou want. I'll keep the list updated with our progress. Tom Whittle ----------From: channer Subject: Vince MarinaroDate: Sun, Jul 5, 1998, 9:45 AM Hi Guys!I just finished reading all of the exerpts from The Ring of the Rise onFlyanglersonline.Very interesting. Is there more on rodbuilding in thebook itself? Also, has anyone figured out what one of Vince's taperswould look like? John Channer from tom@cet-inc.com Mon Jul 6 10:03:25 1998 Subject: test Test---------- from CPETERS@rivertrade.com Mon Jul 6 10:24:38 1998 with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 06 Jul 1998 10:08:49 -0600 Subject: I wi I will be out of the office until Wednesday, July, 15th. If your messageneeds an immediateresponse, please contact Merry at ext. 4367. (This is an automatic reply.) from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Mon Jul 6 10:45:48 1998 Subject: Grayrock '98 Tapers part 2. Now for the rest of the story... 6', 2piece, 4wt. QUAD made by a Wisconsin rodmaker named Irgins (firstnameunknown).measured over varnishTip1" .061, .06355" .070, .069510" .0755, .07615" .092, .092520" .110, .108526" .122, .12230" .1275, .129341/2" .1255, .1235Butt - measured from the end of the bamboo inside the female ferrule not from the end of the ferrule.2" .1515, .15055" .155, .148510" .161, .16116" .1765, .17620" .1865, .192 (node)241/2" .203, .2055 No guide spacing ...Chris Bogart has the rod on loan maybe he'll give usthe guide spacing???------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------- Reed Curry's 9', 3piece, 3wt. Montague, ..over varnishTip1/2" .075, .075, .07555" .0875, .0870, .087510" .0985, .101, .1005141/2" .1135, .1135, .11620" .126, .1275, .128525" .1445, .1415, .13830" .153, .1555, .1545341/8" .150, .153, .160 Mid - measured from the end of the bamboo inside the female ferrule nottheend of the ferrule2" .169, .175, .173547/8" .1785, .178, .17610" .1875, .189, .19015" .207, .206, .203520" .220, .214, .218241/2" .228, .2285, .23130" .238, .244, .2465331/4" .242, .247, .248 Butt - measured from the end of the bamboo2" .2545, .250, .25441/2" .263, .265, .2655101/4" .289, .2875, .286515" .300, .3025, .296520" .3165, .3185, .3200241/2" .380, .3885, .3805 Guide spacing 41/2, 10, 157/8, 213/4, 281/8, 377/8, 451/8, 531/8,615/8,701/8 (against ferrule), 753/8 (stripper)------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----Last one.. Reed Curry's 8', 3piece, 5wt. F.E. Thomas .. over varnish Tip1" .0775, .0775, .0775" .087, 086, .09110" .105, .1075, .107515" .126, .1275, .130191/2" .131, .133, .13821" .1385, .1415, .143525" .1475, .1495, .146530" .1695, .168, .1685 Mid - measured from the end of the ferrule (I think..I'm trying to find outif this was measured from the ferrule or end of bamboo..would make about3/4" difference)3" .1775, .1815, .18255" .185, .1835, .184510" .200, .201, .19715" .202, .204, .20620" .220, .220, .22026" .245, .239, .235291/2" .240, .237, .235 Butt - measured from the end of the ferrule (same caveat)4" .260, .267, .27010" .278, .273, .28015" .287, .286, .28920" .303, .303, .303Swell starts @ 20" to .375 at the winding check @ 23". That's it for Grayrock '98. Regards, Dennis from OBorge@aiss.uic.edu Mon Jul 6 10:52:15 1998 Subject: RE: Grayrock '98 Tapers part 2. Rodmakers,The 6'0" quad's maker is John Irgens.Sorry the miss spelling was mine. Olaf BorgeSystems Programmer/System SoftwareUniversity of Illinois/AISS/CNO312/996-5212 -----Original Message-----From: dennis higham [SMTP:76250.1771@compuserve.com]Sent: Monday, July 06, 1998 10:42 AM Subject: Grayrock '98 Tapers part 2. Now for the rest of the story... 6', 2piece, 4wt. QUAD made by a Wisconsin rodmaker named Irgins (firstnameunknown).measured over varnishTip1" .061, .06355" .070, .069510" .0755, .07615" .092, .092520" .110, .108526" .122, .12230" .1275, .129341/2" .1255, .1235Butt - measured from the end of the bamboo inside the female ferrulenot from the end of the ferrule.2" .1515, .15055" .155, .148510" .161, .16116" .1765, .17620" .1865, .192 (node)241/2" .203, .2055 No guide spacing ...Chris Bogart has the rod on loan maybe he'll giveusthe guide spacing???------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------- Reed Curry's 9', 3piece, 3wt. Montague, ..over varnishTip1/2" .075, .075, .07555" .0875, .0870, .087510" .0985, .101, .1005141/2" .1135, .1135, .11620" .126, .1275, .128525" .1445, .1415, .13830" .153, .1555, .1545341/8" .150, .153, .160 Mid - measured from the end of the bamboo inside the female ferrulenot theend of the ferrule2" .169, .175, .173547/8" .1785, .178, .17610" .1875, .189, .19015" .207, .206, .203520" .220, .214, .218241/2" .228, .2285, .23130" .238, .244, .2465331/4" .242, .247, .248 Butt - measured from the end of the bamboo2" .2545, .250, .25441/2" .263, .265, .2655101/4" .289, .2875, .286515" .300, .3025, .296520" .3165, .3185, .3200241/2" .380, .3885, .3805 Guide spacing 41/2, 10, 157/8, 213/4, 281/8, 377/8, 451/8, 531/8,615/8,701/8 (against ferrule), 753/8 (stripper)------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----Last one.. Reed Curry's 8', 3piece, 5wt. F.E. Thomas .. over varnish Tip1" .0775, .0775, .0775" .087, 086, .09110" .105, .1075, .107515" .126, .1275, .130191/2" .131, .133, .13821" .1385, .1415, .143525" .1475, .1495, .146530" .1695, .168, .1685 Mid - measured from the end of the ferrule (I think..I'm trying tofind outif this was measured from the ferrule or end of bamboo..would makeabout3/4" difference)3" .1775, .1815, .18255" .185, .1835, .184510" .200, .201, .19715" .202, .204, .20620" .220, .220, .22026" .245, .239, .235291/2" .240, .237, .235 Butt - measured from the end of the ferrule (same caveat)4" .260, .267, .27010" .278, .273, .28015" .287, .286, .28920" .303, .303, .303Swell starts @ 20" to .375 at the winding check @ 23". That's it for Grayrock '98. Regards, Dennis from tom@cet-inc.com Mon Jul 6 12:57:39 1998 Subject: Re: Vince Marinaro JohnSince the beginning of this year, a small group of us in Central PA havebeen negotiating with representatives of the Marinaro family in anattemptto acquire the Marinaro Collection to be the cornerstone of a Fly FishingCenter and Museum in Central PA. We have recently received a letter fromtheMarinaro attorney providing an agreement in principal for the transfer ofthe Marinaro collection. We have until December of 1998 to form ournon-profit organization and gather financial support for our new Center.Those of us who have started this effort are active in two local TUChapters(Cumberland Valley and Doc Fritchey). This collection is impressive and,with the exception of the Halford collection in England, perhaps the finestin the world. Pennsylvania also has many other fly fishing notables thatcanbe featured in a Museum. The center will also serve as an educationalcenter Now to the rods and tapers. There are about 15 rods in the collection, afewof which I have had the opportunity to cast. They are wonderful rods,especially the shorter ones made in later years. One of our goals is topublish a book on Vince's rods including the tapers to generate funds forthe new center. A few fellow rod makers from the East have offered tohelpin this effort. We are looking for other ways to use the rod tapers to raisefunds, maybe something along the lines of the makers rod which was sosuccessful. Itried to attach some pictures of Vince's small 1970's rods, the "Guppy" and the"Guppy Jr". My post was rejected because of size with the photos attached. Any Ideasonhow to share them would be appreciated. (I remember problems in the past whenphotos were attached to postings to the list). Anyone's thoughts or suggestions are welcome. You can email me directlyifyou want. I'll keep the list updated with our progress. Tom Whittle ----------From: channer Subject: Vince MarinaroDate: Sun, Jul 5, 1998, 9:45 AM Hi Guys!I just finished reading all of the exerpts from The Ring of the Rise onFlyanglersonline.Very interesting. Is there more on rodbuilding in thebook itself? Also, has anyone figured out what one of Vince's taperswould look like? John Channer from rmoon@ida.net Mon Jul 6 13:49:14 1998 Subject: Re: Vince Marinaro Tom, My best wishes on your effort. Let me know if I can help Ralph Moon from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Jul 6 15:03:41 1998 Subject: Re: Southern Rodmaker Gathering Harry Boyd wrote:Friends, This will be going out next week. Since the idea was birthed here,I wanted to let you know first. If you can be present, or give apresentation, or help in any other way, please let me know so that Ican include that information in the publicity. I'd like to include,with your permission, names of those planning to attend. At thispoint there is no charge to anyone at all except me. If this getsmore structured, (like providing food) then break even only chargesmay become necessary.Let me know what you can do or bring. Also, any suggestions onhow to make this work better are welcome. Thanks,Harry Boyd (fbcwin@fsbnet.com) Sorry, my server has been on the blink, and I've received no responseyet. If you posted a response Friday - Monday, please send it to meagain. Thanks,Harry from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Jul 6 16:13:19 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Vince Marinaro In a message dated 7/6/98 6:03:19 PM, you wrote: Tom - The attachment did not get to me through the list. When I tried thisafew months ago with the binder pictures, I had a lot of problems also.Almosteveryone was able to access the photos when I set them up as a site atAOL. Iunderstand that every major internet provider allows you a few megabytesto dothis. It turned out to be a fairly simple thing to do. I would suggest you tryit this way. I would also be glad to help with the book or the museum in any way I can. from hokkaido_flyfisher@yahoo.com Mon Jul 6 16:14:20 1998 Subject: what to do ... Dear Rodmakers, I've got one week to finish up my first rod before leaving for the States. It looks good, and casts nicely. As of yet, I still need to apply the varnish.I am concerned that if I do so, then I won't be able take a still tacky rod with me ... If I take an unvarnished rod, fish with it for a few weeks, then varnish it when I return home ... any problems? Cheers, Christian==Mr. Christian THALACKER Otaru University of CommerceMatsugae 2-6-30 Otaru International Center #253047-0022 Hokkaido JAPAN Midori 3-5-21 Otaru047 Hokkaido JAPAN http://members.tripod.com/~Nijimasu/O.htmlIf something goes wrong, blame the guy who can't speak English._________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from kgabd@uswest.net Mon Jul 6 16:31:05 1998 Subject: Re: Grayrock '98 Tapers part 2. dennis higham wrote: Now for the rest of the story... 6', 2piece, 4wt. QUAD made by a Wisconsin rodmaker named Irgins (firstnameunknown).measured over varnishTip1" .061, .06355" .070, .069510" .0755, .07615" .092, .092520" .110, .108526" .122, .12230" .1275, .129341/2" .1255, .1235Butt - measured from the end of the bamboo inside the female ferrulenot from the end of the ferrule.2" .1515, .15055" .155, .148510" .161, .16116" .1765, .17620" .1865, .192 (node)241/2" .203, .2055 No guide spacing ...Chris Bogart has the rod on loan maybe he'll give usthe guide spacing???------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------- Reed Curry's 9', 3piece, 3wt. Montague, ..over varnishTip1/2" .075, .075, .07555" .0875, .0870, .087510" .0985, .101, .1005141/2" .1135, .1135, .11620" .126, .1275, .128525" .1445, .1415, .13830" .153, .1555, .1545341/8" .150, .153, .160 Mid - measured from the end of the bamboo inside the female ferrule nottheend of the ferrule2" .169, .175, .173547/8" .1785, .178, .17610" .1875, .189, .19015" .207, .206, .203520" .220, .214, .218241/2" .228, .2285, .23130" .238, .244, .2465331/4" .242, .247, .248 Butt - measured from the end of the bamboo2" .2545, .250, .25441/2" .263, .265, .2655101/4" .289, .2875, .286515" .300, .3025, .296520" .3165, .3185, .3200241/2" .380, .3885, .3805 Guide spacing 41/2, 10, 157/8, 213/4, 281/8, 377/8, 451/8, 531/8,615/8,701/8 (against ferrule), 753/8 (stripper)------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----Last one.. Reed Curry's 8', 3piece, 5wt. F.E. Thomas .. over varnish Tip1" .0775, .0775, .0775" .087, 086, .09110" .105, .1075, .107515" .126, .1275, .130191/2" .131, .133, .13821" .1385, .1415, .143525" .1475, .1495, .146530" .1695, .168, .1685 Mid - measured from the end of the ferrule (I think..I'm trying to find outif this was measured from the ferrule or end of bamboo..would makeabout3/4" difference)3" .1775, .1815, .18255" .185, .1835, .184510" .200, .201, .19715" .202, .204, .20620" .220, .220, .22026" .245, .239, .235291/2" .240, .237, .235 Butt - measured from the end of the ferrule (same caveat)4" .260, .267, .27010" .278, .273, .28015" .287, .286, .28920" .303, .303, .303Swell starts @ 20" to .375 at the winding check @ 23". That's it for Grayrock '98. Regards,DennisName is John Irgens, 1228 Duke St., Rice Lake, WI 54868. phone:715 2342573. kg from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon Jul 6 16:53:37 1998 Subject: Re: Vince Marinaro Tom, I was recently talking to Sid Neff, who has a slide presentation about Vince. I had the good fortune to meet Vince on two occasions whenhe was doing seminars in Toronto. ----------From: Tom Subject: Re: Vince MarinaroDate: Monday, July 06, 1998 9:47 AM JohnSince the beginning of this year, a small group of us in Central PA havebeen negotiating with representatives of the Marinaro family in anattemptto acquire the Marinaro Collection to be the cornerstone of a Fly FishingCenter and Museum in Central PA. We have recently received a letterfromtheMarinaro attorney providing an agreement in principal for the transfer ofthe Marinaro collection. We have until December of 1998 to form ournon-profit organization and gather financial support for our new Center.Those of us who have started this effort are active in two local TUChapters(Cumberland Valley and Doc Fritchey). This collection is impressive and,with the exception of the Halford collection in England, perhaps thefinestin the world. Pennsylvania also has many other fly fishing notables thatcanbe featured in a Museum. The center will also serve as an educationalcenter Now to the rods and tapers. There are about 15 rods in the collection, afewof which I have had the opportunity to cast. They are wonderful rods,especially the shorter ones made in later years. One of our goals is topublish a book on Vince's rods including the tapers to generate funds forthe new center. A few fellow rod makers from the East have offered tohelpin this effort. I have attached pictures of two of Vince's small 1970'srods, the Guppy and the Guppy Jr. (I hope adding photo files does notcausetwo much of a technological incident for the list). Anyone's thoughts or suggestions are welcome. You can email me directlyifyou want. I'll keep the list updated with our progress. Tom Whittle ----------From: channer Subject: Vince MarinaroDate: Sun, Jul 5, 1998, 9:45 AM Hi Guys!I just finished reading all of the exerpts from The Ring of the Rise onFlyanglersonline.Very interesting. Is there more on rodbuilding in thebook itself? Also, has anyone figured out what one of Vince's taperswould look like? John Channer from stpete@netten.net Mon Jul 6 17:01:12 1998 cedar.netten.net(8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA20567 for ;Mon, 6 Jul 1998 17:00:25 Subject: Re: South'n Rodmkr Gathering response Harry, I'll be certain to be there and can help. I know that there are atleast two other rodmakers here in Memphis, I'll see if I can contactthem, it'll be a good way to meet them for the first time. (Some guysget kind of leery of talking to people - there are plenty of folks whoaren't serious about doing this and explaining the whole deal to themtakes a lot of time). I am familar with the river and the area. Contact me at stpete@netten.net or 901-682-8626 if you want some help. I really think this will be super since I missed out on Grayrock. Rick SOUTHERN BAMBOO RODMAKERS GATHERING A Southern Rodmakers Gathering will be held prior to the SouthernCouncil Federation of Fly Fishers Conclave at Mountain Home, Arkansas,October 2- 4,1988. This will be an informal gathering held at the Riverside Pavillionof Quarry State Park on the Norfork River, Thursday October 1, 1988.Plans are to gather 30+ rodmakers together, cast each other's rods,hear and see presentations from any and all volunteers, split someculms, plane some strips, demonstrate tools, swap equipment, askquestions, brag, laugh, eat, drink, and fish one of the best troutstreams in the world.All Rodmakers and potential rodmakers should make plans toattend. Bring all your rods and what tools you can carry, and learn from the other Rodmakers present.The Pavillion is equipped with a large BBQ pit available to anyonewho wants to cook. Bring your own food and drink, or make a quick runto the small town of Norfork to eat at one of the cafes.Hopes are that this will be the fore-runner of more formalgatherings in days to come. Many talented rodmakers live and work inthe Southern United States and have little opportunity to attendsimilar gatherings in other parts of the country. By holding thisfirst informal gathering we hope to develop an annual time and place Any Rodmaker interested in giving a presentation or demonstratingany area of bamboo rodmaking, please contact Harry Boyd at(318)435-4359 or (318)435-2278 (evenings). from thramer@presys.com Mon Jul 6 17:43:26 1998 Subject: Re: what to do ... Christian THALACKER wrote: Dear Rodmakers, I've got one week to finish up my first rod beforeleaving for the States. It looks good, and castsnicely. As of yet, I still need to apply the varnish.I am concerned that if I do so, then I won't beable take a still tacky rod with me ... If I take an unvarnished rod, fish with it fora few weeks, then varnish it when I return home ...any problems? Cheers, Christian==Mr. Christian THALACKER Otaru University of CommerceMatsugae 2-6-30 Otaru International Center #253047-0022 Hokkaido JAPAN Midori 3-5-21 Otaru047 Hokkaido JAPAN http://members.tripod.com/~Nijimasu/O.htmlIf something goes wrong, blame the guy who can't speak English._________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.comHi Christian,Apply one thin coat now, it should be cured at least OK for yourupcoming trip. One coat does what technically we want the varnish to do,seal the rod. It also (and more importantly I believe) will seal the rodagainst contamination and allow you to put another couple of coats onthe rod to 'pretty it up' when you return.A.J.Thramer from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Jul 6 17:54:40 1998 Tue, 7 Jul 1998 06:54:33 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Vince Marinaro On Mon, 6 Jul 1998, Tom wrote: JohnSince the beginning of this year, a small group of us in Central PA havebeen negotiating with representatives of the Marinaro family in anattemptto acquire the Marinaro Collection to be the cornerstone of a Fly FishingCenter and Museum in Central PA. We have recently received a letter from theMarinaro attorney providing an agreement in principal for the transfer ofthe Marinaro collection. We have until December of 1998 to form ournon-profit organization and gather financial support for our new Center.Those of us who have started this effort are active in two local TUChapters(Cumberland Valley and Doc Fritchey). This collection is impressive and,with the exception of the Halford collection in England, perhaps thefinestin the world. Pennsylvania also has many other fly fishing notables thatcanbe featured in a Museum. The center will also serve as an educationalcenter Put me down for the book when it's published. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Jul 6 18:10:05 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.1); Mon,6Jul 1998 19:13:01 -0400 Subject: Used Toolbox After remembering some recent conversations on the list I added a Used Toolbox list on the web page. I hope you all will check it out and send some mail with tools you would like listed. Hopefully, new guys will be able to get into this craft for less and you old guys (seasoned, not chronologically) will be able to try new stuff for less. Take care,Jon Lintvet8602 Wild Olive StreetPotomac, MD 20854(800) 836-7558(301) 340-0194 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Jul 6 18:53:13 1998 head.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA13415; Mon, 6 Jul1998 19:53:07 -0400 Subject: Re: what to do ... Christian I would give it at least one coat before you left. No problem - 1st coat needs to be sanded anyway - when you get backtake you fine 1200+ grit and give a good going over and dip again - thatwill provide you enough "bite" for the next coat. If you got good weather should cure but . . . other than that rememberthis: ITIS A FISHING ROD - you can always strip it and redo when you get back -best to havefished it than never to fish it at all. Chris Dear Rodmakers, I've got one week to finish up my first rod before leaving for the States. It looks good, and casts nicely. As of yet, I still need to apply the varnish.I am concerned that if I do so, then I won't be able take a still tacky rod with me ... If I take an unvarnished rod, fish with it for a few weeks, then varnish it when I return home ... any problems? Cheers, Christian==Mr. Christian THALACKER Otaru University of CommerceMatsugae 2-6-30 Otaru International Center #253047-0022 Hokkaido JAPAN Midori 3-5-21 Otaru047 Hokkaido JAPAN http://members.tripod.com/~Nijimasu/O.htmlIf something goes wrong, blame the guy who can't speak English._________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from ragnarig@integrityol.com Mon Jul 6 20:23:52 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id AA86B380078; Mon, 06 Jul 1998 18:31:50 PDT Subject: Re: Grayrock '98 Tapers part 2. Dear Dennis Thanks again for the tapers! These are always very welcome, the quadparticularly. Anybody got a good two-handed taper? Thanks,Davy from ccurrojr@mindspring.com Mon Jul 6 22:16:38 1998 Subject: Two-handed taper Could I second that request for a two-handed taper? I've been asked to make a 13-15 foot 9 or 10 wt.two-handed spey rod for someone who REALLYwants a bamboo thunder stick for salt water. If I canfind a taper, I'd like to try. I'm not sure who's crazier ....him or me. Any suggestions would be appreciated Thanks in advance,Charlie Curro(PS -I'm aware of the Payne taper in Jack Howell's book.) from channer@hubwest.com Mon Jul 6 23:20:14 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A2511CC80126; Mon, 06 Jul 1998 22:21:37 MDT Subject: Re: Vince Marinaro At 01:06 PM 7/6/98 -0500, you wrote:JohnSince the beginning of this year, a small group of us in Central PA havebeen negotiating with representatives of the Marinaro family in anattemptto acquire the Marinaro Collection to be the cornerstone of a Fly FishingCenter and Museum in Central PA. We have recently received a letter fromtheMarinaro attorney providing an agreement in principal for the transfer ofthe Marinaro collection. We have until December of 1998 to form ournon-profit organization and gather financial support for our new Center.Those of us who have started this effort are active in two local TUChapters(Cumberland Valley and Doc Fritchey). This collection is impressive and,with the exception of the Halford collection in England, perhaps thefinestin the world. Pennsylvania also has many other fly fishing notables thatcanbe featured in a Museum. The center will also serve as an educationalcenter Now to the rods and tapers. There are about 15 rods in the collection, afewof which I have had the opportunity to cast. They are wonderful rods,especially the shorter ones made in later years. One of our goals is topublish a book on Vince's rods including the tapers to generate funds forthe new center. A few fellow rod makers from the East have offered tohelpin this effort. We are looking for other ways to use the rod tapers toraisefunds, maybe something along the lines of the makers rod which was sosuccessful. Itried to attach some pictures of Vince's small 1970's rods, the "Guppy" and the"Guppy Jr". My post was rejected because of size with the photos attached. Any Ideasonhow to share them would be appreciated. (I remember problems in the past whenphotos were attached to postings to the list). Anyone's thoughts or suggestions are welcome. You can email me directlyifyou want. I'll keep the list updated with our progress. Tom Whittle Tom; Sounds great. I wish there was some way I could help, but I live inDurango,Co.I will do what I can, however, just let me know. I'm sure everylittle bit will help, and you can defineatly count me in for a copy of thebook when you publish it. The rodbuilding theory of Vince's that I haveread intrigues me, I wish I were smart enough to figure it out. John Channer from harry37@epix.net Tue Jul 7 06:56:34 1998 SMTP id HAA24221 Subject: Re: Vince Marinaro john channer wrote: At 01:06 PM 7/6/98 -0500, you wrote:JohnSince the beginning of this year, a small group of us in Central PA havebeen negotiating with representatives of the Marinaro family in anattemptto acquire the Marinaro Collection to be the cornerstone of a Fly FishingCenter and Museum in Central PA. We have recently received a letter from theMarinaro attorney providing an agreement in principal for the transferofthe Marinaro collection. We have until December of 1998 to form ournon-profit organization and gather financial support for our new Center.Those of us who have started this effort are active in two local TUChapters(Cumberland Valley and Doc Fritchey). This collection is impressive and,with the exception of the Halford collection in England, perhaps thefinestin the world. Pennsylvania also has many other fly fishing notables thatcanbe featured in a Museum. The center will also serve as an educationalcenter Now to the rods and tapers. There are about 15 rods in the collection, afewof which I have had the opportunity to cast. They are wonderful rods,especially the shorter ones made in later years. One of our goals is topublish a book on Vince's rods including the tapers to generate funds forthe new center. A few fellow rod makers from the East have offered tohelpin this effort. We are looking for other ways to use the rod tapers toraisefunds,maybe something along the lines of the makers rod which was sosuccessful. Itriedto attach some pictures of Vince's small 1970's rods, the "Guppy" andthe"Guppy Jr".My post was rejected because of size with the photos attached. Any how toshare them would be appreciated. (I remember problems in the pastwhenphotos wereattached to postings to the list). Anyone's thoughts or suggestions are welcome. You can email medirectly ifyou want. I'll keep the list updated with our progress. Tom Whittle Tom; Sounds great. I wish there was some way I could help, but I live inDurango,Co.I will do what I can, however, just let me know. I'm sureeverylittle bit will help, and you can defineatly count me in for a copy of thebook when you publish it. The rodbuilding theory of Vince's that I haveread intrigues me, I wish I were smart enough to figure it out. John Channer A few weeks ago there was a thread that talked about a beneficiary forthe 99 Maker's Rod--could this be a candidate? Greg from eestlow@srminc.com Tue Jul 7 09:44:54 1998 1998)) id 8625663A.00504EF7; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 09:37:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Out of Date (Was Re: Makers Rod 99) Can George Bourke contact me off list about the Nikon LS-20 film scanner.Iinadvertently zotted his e-mail address so sorry for the band width. I'mdumb as a stump about scanners, need to educate myself ASAP, and coulduseinformation about this one. Would Kinkos have one? Can they scan mountedslides? Etc. Any info will be appreciated. -Ed Estlow pinky@coslink.net on 07/04/98 12:12:44 PM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Out of Date (Was Re: Makers Rod 99) Actually you're not "out of date". Unless you own a Sinar-Leaf digitalcamera, AND are willing to lug around a computer, AND don't mind onlybeing able to take one photo every 3 minutes, you will get higher quality(and cheaper) from a $50 35mm camera and a refurbished Nikon LS-20film scanner at $600. You'll get 2700 dpi OPTICAL scan quality (notinterpolated), 30 bit color depth, and save about $125,000 over theSinar-Leaf. For $1000 in digital camera bucks, you only get about1024x768 pixels vs. 2700x4050for the $650 conventional / film scanneroption. George Bourke ----------From: Robert Clarke Subject: Re: Makers Rod 99Date: Saturday, June 20, 1998 1:11 PM I'll volunteer a page as well if needed. So I am a little out of date.I don't even have a scanner yet! Have fun. Robert from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Tue Jul 7 11:39:11 1998 Subject: Re: South'n Rodmkr Gathering response Rick, Thanks for the encouragement. Right now, you're on the right track.We need to publicize this and get as many as possible to attend. Please docontact any rodmakers you know who are not on the list. I'm sending thisto "The Bamboo Fly Rod" magazine, "The Planing Form", "Long Casts" (So.Council FFF), and all other rodmakers I know in the area who are not on thelist. Got any other ideas? got a guide friend who fishes with me and offers his boat, etc. to me freeif I include him in an article now and then. If you can get away early,let's make plans to fish together. Harry Rick Crenshaw wrote: Harry, I'll be certain to be there and can help. I know that there are atleast two other rodmakers here in Memphis, I'll see if I can contactthem, it'll be a good way to meet them for the first time. (Some guysget kind of leery of talking to people - there are plenty of folks whoaren't serious about doing this and explaining the whole deal to themtakes a lot of time). I am familar with the river and the area.Contact me at stpete@netten.net or 901-682-8626 if you want somehelp.I really think this will be super since I missed out on Grayrock. Rick SOUTHERN BAMBOO RODMAKERS GATHERING A Southern Rodmakers Gathering will be held prior to the SouthernCouncil Federation of Fly Fishers Conclave at Mountain Home, Arkansas,October 2- 4,1988. This will be an informal gathering held at the Riverside Pavillionof Quarry State Park on the Norfork River, Thursday October 1, 1988.Plans are to gather 30+ rodmakers together, cast each other's rods,hear and see presentations from any and all volunteers, split someculms, plane some strips, demonstrate tools, swap equipment, askquestions, brag, laugh, eat, drink, and fish one of the best troutstreams in the world.All Rodmakers and potential rodmakers should make plans toattend. Bring all your rods and what tools you can carry, and learn from the other Rodmakers present.The Pavillion is equipped with a large BBQ pit available to anyonewho wants to cook. Bring your own food and drink, or make a quick runto the small town of Norfork to eat at one of the cafes.Hopes are that this will be the fore-runner of more formalgatherings in days to come. Many talented rodmakers live and work inthe Southern United States and have little opportunity to attendsimilar gatherings in other parts of the country. By holding thisfirst informal gathering we hope to develop an annual time and place Any Rodmaker interested in giving a presentation or demonstratingany area of bamboo rodmaking, please contact Harry Boyd at(318)435-4359 or (318)435-2278 (evenings). from p036897b@pb.seflin.org Tue Jul 7 15:41:31 1998 QAA17487; Tue, 7 Jul1998 16:42:13 -0400 Subject: Rod Building either Bamboo or Graphite Dear Rodmakers, Who in the W. Palm Beach area can teach me the fine art, science & skill of rodbuilding. Clemens video and books, nor Flexcraft's cut it for me. Thanks for your help!!!! Tight Loops & Lines,Maury SchiowitzShimmer-Boo CompanyMakers of Wrapping & Dubbing Material for Fine Fly TyersW. Palm Beach, Fl. 33414 p036897b@pbfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us from stpete@netten.net Tue Jul 7 15:44:18 1998 cedar.netten.net(8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA14632 for ;Tue, 7 Jul 1998 15:43:57 Subject: Re: South'n Rodmkr Gathering response Harry, I wouldn't want to foul anybody up with anything I had to say aboutrodmaking, but I'll pitch in with space in my Pop-up and I'll bring somefirewood and supplies. I can bring tools, cane or whatever else we wantto demo. I will go up early, though I have to check my schedule to see just howearly I can come. Let's hope the midges are hatching strong and thewater is moderately low. It often is at that time. Midge emergers onthe big pools are my favorite fishing on that river. I'm building a PHYDriggs just for that river. I'll bring my kickboat so maybe we can do some floating. I think thekickboat will keep up with the driftboat since its such a short river(Norfolk). I may have to think about it if we fish the White. Rick from FLYROD777@aol.com Tue Jul 7 17:52:13 1998 Subject: Re: Vince Marinaro Where is this little group located. I will be in PA. at the end of the month. Mark Hallowell(847)688-1330 (h) from richjez@enteract.com Tue Jul 7 18:05:11 1998 (147.126.253.18) Subject: Re: Two-handed taper Here is a taper for a salmon rod from the Frazer book. Split Bamboo Salmon Rod.- Length, 14 feet 11 * inches; joints, 5 feet 1inch;weight, 26 ounces; material, six strip Calcutta bamboo. Handgrasp, double,24inches long, solid cork fitted to bamboo direct. Length of lower grasp, 7inches; diameter, 1 3/16; buttcap, 1 1/16; reelseat, 6 inches long, 1 inchindiameter; upper grasp, 11 inches long, diameter 1 3/16. Calibers: 24inches from butt, at the taper, 41/64; 30 inches, 5/8; 3 feet, 39/64; 3 * feet,19/32;4 feet, 35/64; 4 * feet, 35/64. Middle joint: Ferrule, 3 5/8 inches long,17/32; 12 inches, *; 18 inches, *; 2 feet, 31/64; 2 * feet, 15/32; 3 feet,7/16; 3 * feet, 13/32; 4 feet, 3/8; 4 * feet, 11/32, ferrule capped,welted,and serrated, 3 3/8 inches long. Tips: Ferrule, 2 5/8 inches, 21/64; 6inches5/16, 12 inches, 19/64; 3 feet, 13/64; 3 * feet, 3/16; 4 feet, 11/64; 4 *feet,9/64; at top 1/8 inch. Tops, loose ring, steel. Guides: First agate, 5-16;balance hard steel snake guides, fifteen in all. I have tried to copy this as accurately as possible. It seems interesting.Being made of Calcutta cane, if it is like the rod Reed had at Grayling, itwill not be fast, but smooth. Reed note: Calcutta cane. Rich Jezioro At 10:14 PM 7/6/98 -0500, you wrote:Could I second that request for a two-handed taper? I've been asked to make a 13-15 foot 9 or 10 wt.two-handed spey rod for someone who REALLYwants a bamboo thunder stick for salt water. If I canfind a taper, I'd like to try. I'm not sure who's crazier ....him or me. Any suggestions would be appreciated Thanks in advance,Charlie Curro(PS -I'm aware of the Payne taper in Jack Howell's book.) *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ /||/______/_||_________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Jul 7 18:06:55 1998 Subject: Re: Two-handed taper Charlie,I have a 12' Montague 3 piece , 2 tip two handed rod if you want this taperlet me know.bret from richjez@enteract.com Tue Jul 7 18:08:19 1998 (147.126.253.18) Subject: Chicago get together Is anyone planning on going to Corens for the get together on Thurs? Rich Jezioro*________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ /||/______/_||_________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Jul 7 18:11:17 1998 Subject: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine/ May - June List,Has anyone recieved May - June issue???????????????Bret from sjstill@indy.net Tue Jul 7 18:14:02 1998 Subject: delamination ? Hi All, Well, I'm doing my first restoration and I may be in over my head already -I noticed a spot of delamination on the butt section of about 1.25". It isjust affecting 1 glue joint. Any advise (other than scrapping it). TIA, Steve Steve Stillabower from hhholland@erols.com Tue Jul 7 18:30:05 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine/ May - June Bret, The fly shop where I work received their copies last Friday, but I haven'tgot my home delivery yet. Hank H.-----Original Message----- Subject: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine/ May - June List,Has anyone recieved May - June issue???????????????Bret from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Jul 7 18:35:11 1998 Subject: RE:delamination ? RO>Hi All, RO>Well, I'm doing my first restoration and I may be in over my headalready - RO>I noticed a spot of delamination on the butt section of about 1.25". ItisRO>just affecting 1 glue joint. Any advise (other than scrapping it). RO>TIA, RO>Steve Steve, If you remove the varnish and insert a single-edged razor blade into thedelam you might be amazed how long it really is or can be made to be ifyou force the gap. Do try opening up the delam. and putting a few drops of Titebond II glueinto it and then wrap with string. This should solve your problem. Don Burns from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Jul 7 18:56:03 1998 head.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA17371; Tue, 7 Jul1998 19:55:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine/ May - June HankI have talked to Mark Metcalf and he says he is awaiting slip coversto mail themto subscribers to protect them - they are delayed - but the good news isthe next issue isshortly behind this one and hopefully these problems get resolved. Chris On Tue, 7 Jul 1998 19:20:28 -0100, Hank Holland wrote: Bret, The fly shop where I work received their copies last Friday, but I haven'tgot my home delivery yet. Hank H.-----Original Message-----From: Grhghlndr@aol.com Date: Tuesday, July 07, 1998 10:15 PMSubject: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine/ May - June List,Has anyone recieved May - June issue???????????????Bret from channer@hubwest.com Tue Jul 7 19:11:39 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A9911AC900F8; Tue, 07 Jul 1998 18:13:05 MDT Subject: Re: Vince Marinaro At 08:47 AM 7/6/98 -0500, you wrote: Now to the rods and tapers. There are about 15 rods in the collection, afewof which I have had the opportunity to cast. They are wonderful rods,especially the shorter ones made in later years. One of our goals is topublish a book on Vince's rods including the tapers to generate funds forthe new center. A few fellow rod makers from the East have offered tohelpin this effort. I have attached pictures of two of Vince's small 1970'srods, the Guppy and the Guppy Jr. (I hope adding photo files does not causetwo much of a technological incident for the list). Tom;Did you get the opportunity to cast any 8 or 8.5 footers? I seem to getmore requests for these lengths than shorter rods. Vince said he preferredlonger rods and I was wondering what they cast like. Thanks and good luck John Channer from rcurry@top.monad.net Tue Jul 7 19:24:59 1998 Subject: Re: Grayrock '98 Tapers part 2. dennis higham wrote:Reed Curry's 9', 3piece, 3wt. Montague, ..over varnish Dennis,I'd like to add a note on this rod. This is indeed a Montague, but isone of those rare, (Varney designed?) artfully constructed pieces. TomSmithwick restored this with the original red Jasper wraps and fullintermediates. The NS fittings are blued and the whole piece glows withTom's superb brushed varnish finish.The reelseat is a Landman, 1890 Patent, spiral locking NS bands overhard black rubber. I've caught many fish on this rod, its a joy to cast.Best regards,Reed from Nodewrrior@aol.com Tue Jul 7 19:59:01 1998 Subject: Re: Chicago get together I'll be there... Hoffhines from MasjC1@aol.com Tue Jul 7 20:56:49 1998 Subject: Open House & Fish Census -- East Fork of the Arkansas My wife and I would like to invite Rodmakers list members to join us onSaturday July 25 for the Second Annual Open House and East Fork of theArkansas Fish Census. As a past president of the Aurora Anglers Chapterof TUwe have invited the chapter members to join us at our home on the EastFork stream access on the East Fork above the junction with Tennessee Creek. If all goes according to plan I will have finished my first two bamboo rodsbythen. Please stop by and see the finished product. The first is the Sir DFavorite, Wayne's 7' 4wt 2pc. The second is A. J. Thramer's 4' 4" 4wt 1pc. Ihad butt strips left over, and I have had a "thing" with short rods sincelastsummer when I fished a 5' Scott graphite. We are easy to find. from Leadville go north on US 24 and cross the EastFork,turn left (west) on Lake County 99, then left on Daisy Drive, thenimmediateleft again into the long driveway and you are there. We will be offline starting on July 11 but can be reached at: 27 Daisy DriveLeadville, Colorado 719-486-9049 We look forward to seeing you on July 25th. Mark and Judy Cole from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Jul 7 21:00:49 1998 Subject: !3 foot two hander In response to the request, here is a taper posted some time ago byMichaelMarklund. As I recall the story, I think he made each section with gluedsplice joints, and has a 13 foot one piece rod. I believe he still has a webpage listed at the rodmakers site.Spey Special 13' # 9-10 ButtDist(mm) - Dia(mm)0 - 14,8055 - 14,70255 - 14,20455 - 13,70655 - 13,20855 - 12,701055 - 12,201300 - 11,50 MiddleDist(mm) - Dia(mm)0 - 11,2560 - 11,00260 - 10,40460 - 10,00660 - 9,40860 - 9,101060 - 8,501305 - 8,25 TopDist(mm) - Dia(mm)0 - 8,25160 - 8,00360 - 7,30560 - 6,60760 - 5,90960 - 5,101160 - 4,301360 - 3,50 The default handle-length is 650mm. Rings could be placed:-13-15-18-20-24- 25-25-28-33-39-59 cm. The problem is to get good, thick-walled bamboo and good ferrules. Please let me know if anyone builds it and tries it. Regards...----------------------------------------------------------------Mikael Marklundmikael.marklund@orkestern.skelleftea.sehttp://www.skelleftea.se/utb/balder/personal/ba-mma/flyfish.htm ----------------------- Headers from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Wed Jul 8 01:13:10 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with ESMTP Subject: Frazer Book (was Re: Two-handed taper) Alright, what is the "Frazer" book? Thanks,George Bourke---------- Subject: Re: Two-handed taper Here is a taper for a salmon rod from the Frazer book. Rich Jezioro from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Wed Jul 8 06:05:12 1998 (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP idMAA17846 for ; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 12:06:02+0100 Subject: The Hardy's C.C.de France Hardy's C.C.de France details. I have put two extra pages onto my web site, giving all the measurementsofthe rod again, and included three photographs of the handle area to helpthose who would like to copy the rod as exactly as possible I gather that adding photographs to mailings as attachments is froughtwithdifficulty. Hopefully, anyone keen to attempt the repro will be able to copy from the web site (I don't really understand all this business very well). There seem to be a lot of rodmakers offlist at present, so I may mail thisagain when things get back to the 'normal' 30 mails a day. There is a button near the bottom of my web site home page at http://www.interalpha.net/customer/cane-rods of little interest. Bear in mind that European angling is certainly flyfishing, but there are many other methods too. Just zip straight through tothe C.C.de France link. John Cooper (England) from richjez@enteract.com Wed Jul 8 07:49:06 1998 (147.126.253.18) Subject: Re: Frazer Book (was Re: Two-handed taper) Amature Rodmaking by Perry Frazier, MacMillian & CO. 1922 At 11:17 PM 7/7/98 -0700, you wrote:Alright, what is the "Frazer" book? Thanks,George Bourke---------->From: Rich Jezioro Subject: Re: Two-handed taperDate: Tuesday, July 07, 1998 4:08 PM Here is a taper for a salmon rod from the Frazer book. Rich Jezioro *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ /||/______/_||_________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > from tom@cet-inc.com Wed Jul 8 07:58:50 1998 Subject: Re: Vince Marinaro John,In addition to the "Guppy", and a 7' for 4wt. I had an opportunity to castVince's favorite trout rod, a 9'4" for 7wt. "Penns Creek". Also, hisfavorite salmon rod the "Penobscot". As one who generally prefers shorterrods, I was suprized at how well Vince's "Penns Creek" and "Penobscot"cast.The collection includes rods ranging from the Guppy Jr. to a two-handedsalmon rod, the "Salar". I expect to be cataloging the rods later this monthor in the beginning of August. More details will be available at that time.Hopefully, we will have a website soon and we can share info and photoswithout using list space.Thanks for your interest.Tom----------From: john channer Subject: Re: Vince MarinaroDate: Tue, Jul 7, 1998, 6:05 PM Tom;Did you get the opportunity to cast any 8 or 8.5 footers? I seem to getmore requests for these lengths than shorter rods. Vince said hepreferredlonger rods and I was wondering what they cast like. Thanks and goodluck John Channer from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed Jul 8 08:32:31 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine/ May - June I had to raise a big stink with a bunch of emails and they sent it to meexpress mail!! ----------From: Grhghlndr@aol.com[SMTP:Grhghlndr@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 1998 4:10 PM Subject: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine/ May - June List,Has anyone recieved May - June issue???????????????Bret from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed Jul 8 08:35:56 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: delamination ? It wont hold for a long time, hide glue is the only glue you can regluewithout planing down to fresh wood and have it hold for a long time. Anyof the other glues will fail at the glue joint sooner or later, usuallysooner, unless you plane or scrape down to fresh wood and then reglue! ----------From: flyfisher@cmix.com[SMTP:flyfisher@cmix.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 1998 3:34 PM Subject: RE:delamination ? RO>Hi All, RO>Well, I'm doing my first restoration and I may be in over my headalready - RO>I noticed a spot of delamination on the butt section of about1.25". It isRO>just affecting 1 glue joint. Any advise (other than scrapping it). RO>TIA, RO>Steve Steve, If you remove the varnish and insert a single-edged razor blade intothedelam you might be amazed how long it really is or can be made to beifyou force the gap. Do try opening up the delam. and putting a few drops of Titebond IIglueinto it and then wrap with string. This should solve your problem. Don Burns from sjstill@indy.net Wed Jul 8 08:49:36 1998 Subject: RE: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine/ May - June At 06:32 7/8/98 -0700, Coffey, Patrick W wrote:I had to raise a big stink with a bunch of emails and they sent it to meexpress mail!! Oh yea, great idea - make the publisher pay a bunch of express mail billsthen he can't afford to publish the magazine! Why don't we all write andwhine. Brilliant. Steve Stillabower from sjstill@indy.net Wed Jul 8 09:02:55 1998 Subject: APOLOGY I APOLOGISE TO THE LIST FOR MY LAST MESSAGE - I MEANT IT TO GOPRIVATELY. Steve Steve Stillabower from santos@esinet.net Wed Jul 8 09:16:05 1998 Subject: Payne banty taper Hello rodmakers, Just joined the list and I see a bunch of familiar names. I have arequest. Does anybody know where I can find the tapers for a Payne bantyrod(4'4''). I know he made four or five of the rods. I'm wondering if thetapers are floating around somewhere. Thanks for any help. Carlos Santos from dpeaston@wzrd.com Wed Jul 8 09:31:06 1998 mail.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) Subject: Re: APOLOGY At 09:04 AM 7/8/98 -0500, Steve Stillabower wrote:I APOLOGISE TO THE LIST FOR MY LAST MESSAGE - I MEANT IT TO GOPRIVATELY. Steve Steve Stillabower Steve, You have, however matched my sentiments! -Regards to all-D.P. EastonSubscriber from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Jul 8 11:04:35 1998 Subject: Re: delamination ? If you remove the varnish and insert a single-edged razor blade intothedelam you might be amazed how long it really is or can be made to beif you force the gap. Do try opening up the delam. and putting a few drops of Titebond IIglue into it and then wrap with string. This should solve your problem. Don Burns It wont hold for a long time, hide glue is the only glue you can regluewithout planing down to fresh wood and have it hold for a long time. Anyof the other glues will fail at the glue joint sooner or later, usuallysooner, unless you plane or scrape down to fresh wood and then reglue! ---------- This may be true, although I've seen some delaminated rods fixed with thinned Elmer's white glue that have held up for a long time (5 or 6 years).The problem with scraping down to fresh "wood" and regluing is you will have to delaminate the entire section to be able to scrape down to fresh bamboo and if you do scrape the splines, it will change the taper. In this case opening the gap and using thinned Titebond II (essentially TB II is just like Elmer's white glue with a little waterproofing thrown in) is the lesser of two evils. Or, if it is truly hide glue, you might be able to wrap the delaminatedsection with string (cotton or braided nylon, not monofilament) andgently steam the section. The heat and moisture might "reactivate"the hide glue, or get adjacent hide glue to move into the delaminatedsection. When this works it works well, but it usually doesn't work at all (I suspect that hide glue wasn't used). Darryl Hayashida from Fallcreek9@aol.com Wed Jul 8 11:31:35 1998 Subject: Re: delamination ? Built a hollow casting rod using Nyatex. Delaminated approx 4" section ofglue joint in the butt thur aggressive straightening (glue surfaces onlyapprox .070" across). Put it in a bend to open the delam, smeared in a bitof2-ton epoxy and bound it up overnight. Has done a lot of hard work sincew/oany problems.RTyree from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Wed Jul 8 14:24:22 1998 Subject: Spey-taper Charles- I"m not sure where I got this taper, probably from thelistserve a long time ago. Don't know if it's a good one but it's the onlyspey-taper I have Gale&Sons, Barnstaple 13'11/2" Spey5" - .15410"- .18015"- .21220"- .21825" - .23330" - .25535" - .27440" - .28245" - .29350' - Ferrule @ 511/855" - .32560" - .34565" - .37370" - .39575" - .41280" - .42585" - .44890" - .45495" - .463100" - .480105" - ferrule110" - .482115" - .490120" - .508125" - .538130" - .543 Grip totals 25" longferrules were heavy bronze w/ 11/4 turn helix for locking.No line weight given That's all I've got..haven't run it thru hexrod to see what the stresscurve looks like but should be interesting. Regards, Dennis from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Wed Jul 8 14:24:24 1998 Subject: Payne 102 taper Randall-I missed the Payne 102 @ Grayrock. Alan Medved had a Payne 100 that wasareally sweet rod. Anyway here's the Payne 102 taper.Payne 102...8', 2piece, 5wt measurements from an unvarnished rodTip0" - .0645" - .08610" - .10615" - .11820" - .13025" - .14430" - .15735" - .17040" - .18245" - .19448" - .200Butt0" - .2065" - .22510" - .23615" - .25020" - .27025" - .28430" - .30635" - .32840" - swell to .350 Cheers, Dennis P.S. If anyone wants the Payne 100 taper let me know and I'll post it. from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Jul 8 16:07:42 1998 Subject: Payne Banty ? In response to recent requests, I checked back into The Planing Form. Ithought I had seen this taper listed. In fact I found the following,submitted taper, however. It is referred to as the 4' 4" Banty taper only. The factthatthe taper is only given to the 45" mark leads one to believe the taper came from an existing rod, so perhaps this is the Payne taper, but I don't knowforsure.0- .1385- .04610-.05915-.06220-.06925- .077 Butt26-.07930-.08435-.08940-.09445-.101 from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Jul 8 16:16:42 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA046762599; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 14:16:39 -0700 Subject: RE: Payne Banty? Thanks for the taper Tom. Should the 0" measurement be .038 rather than .138? Thanks. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from mpatters@arlington.net Wed Jul 8 17:15:19 1998 Subject: Leonard 4099 Hi All,Does anyone have an 8 ft 3 piece Leonard 4099 taper and know what size ferrules it used?ThanksMike Patterson from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Jul 8 17:17:00 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine/ May - June I saw the latest issue today at the local fly shop. Looks good. Especially the cartoon in the letters section :). Anyway, nice job Mark! Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Chris Bogart Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine/ May - JuneDate: Tuesday, July 07, 1998 4:59 PM HankI have talked to Mark Metcalf and he says he is awaiting slip coverstomail themto subscribers to protect them - they are delayed - but the good news isthe next issue isshortly behind this one and hopefully these problems get resolved. Chris On Tue, 7 Jul 1998 19:20:28 -0100, Hank Holland wrote: Bret, The fly shop where I work received their copies last Friday, but Ihaven'tgot my home delivery yet. Hank H.-----Original Message-----From: Grhghlndr@aol.com Date: Tuesday, July 07, 1998 10:15 PMSubject: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine/ May - June List,Has anyone recieved May - June issue???????????????Bret from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Jul 8 17:19:32 1998 Subject: Re: delamination ? RO>> >RO>> > If you remove the varnish and insert a single-edged razor bladeinto thRO>> > delam you might be amazed how long it really is or can be made tobeRO>> > if you force the gap. RO>> > Do try opening up the delam. and putting a few drops of Titebond IIRO>> > glue into it and then wrap with string. This should solve yourproblem.RO>> >RO>> > Don Burns RO>> It wont hold for a long time, hide glue is the only glue you can reglueRO>> without planing down to fresh wood and have it hold for a long time.AnyRO>> of the other glues will fail at the glue joint sooner or later, usuallyRO>> sooner, unless you plane or scrape down to fresh wood and thenreglue!RO>>RO>> > ---------- RO>This may be true, although I've seen some delaminated rods fixed withRO>thinned Elmer's white glue that have held up for a long time (5 or 6years).RO>The problem with scraping down to fresh "wood" and regluing is youwillRO>have to delaminate the entire section to be able to scrape down tofreshRO>bamboo and if you do scrape the splines, it will change the taper. InthisRO>case opening the gap and using thinned Titebond II (essentially TB II isRO>just like Elmer's white glue with a little waterproofing thrown in) istheRO>lesser of two evils. RO>Or, if it is truly hide glue, you might be able to wrap the delaminatedRO>section with string (cotton or braided nylon, not monofilament) andRO>gently steam the section. The heat and moisture might "reactivate"RO>the hide glue, or get adjacent hide glue to move into the delaminatedRO>section. When this works it works well, but it usually doesn't work atRO>all (I suspect that hide glue wasn't used). RO>Darryl Hayashida I guess it depends upon the value of the rod just how much effort thatI'd put into repairing the split - I work mostly with production rodsthat aren't collectors rods. If it's just an small open seam on a butt -I'd worry more about filling the gap than anything else. IMHO! I've redone several delaminations with Titebond II and then I've used anoverwrap of white silk - works fine. Heck, even Garrison's "bible" showshim using white glue on splintered cane. On a heavy butt, I might evenleave off the final overwrap depending upon how much the seam closed upwhen I finished the repair. OBTW, I use waxed dental floss for binding these repairs - glue doesn'tstick to it and it is easy to find. Removes with little effort and thenI use my fingernail to remove the excess Titebond. If it's a delamination up near the ferrule, I'd try to remove theferrule and then open the delamination with a razor blade to the end ofthe cane. Then I'd clean up the split with a razor and some acetone ordenatured acholol. Unless the delamination is heavily contaminated withlots of dry cruddy old glue, a quick scrap from a single-edged blade andthen some acetone seems to prepare the surface just fine. I've not seenthe need to re-plane the cane. Then glue and bind. All IMHO! Don Burns PS - If it's was a $10,000 Garrison - I'd take a heck of a lot more timeand effort than I do with my $150 Heddon fishing "poles"! from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Jul 8 18:19:45 1998 Subject: Re: Payne 102 taper Dennis,I'd like to have a look at it if you have the chance.Thanks,Harry Boyd dennis higham wrote:P.S. If anyone wants the Payne 100 taper let me know and I'll post it. from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Wed Jul 8 19:38:09 1998 Subject: Chicago Get Together I'll be there Dennis from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Jul 8 19:39:23 1998 Subject: Re: RE: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine/ May - June List,I called and talked to Mark about May June issue and he told me it was inthemail and that there was a mix up on shipping and the shops got it first. I AlsoMark told me that the next issue was close behind, seems they had somedifficulty getting this one out. One other thing too, if you guys want thismagazine to make it and you have any writing skills at all then send in anarticle and they will publish it. Don't worry to much about whether or notyour sentence structure is right as that is what editors are paid for. Alsoe-mail Mark any ideas you have or any tips you have for rod building andrelated items. Bret from rcurry@top.monad.net Wed Jul 8 19:41:08 1998 Subject: Re: delamination ? Coffey, Patrick W wrote: It wont hold for a long time, hide glue is the only glue you can regluewithout planing down to fresh wood and have it hold for a long time. Anyof the other glues will fail at the glue joint sooner or later, usuallysooner, unless you plane or scrape down to fresh wood and then reglue! Steve,I must agree, in part, with Patrick - if the original glue was hide, itis very easy and fast to reglue with hide. Further, different glues willeffect a decided change to the action. This may not be significant onthe small section you describe, but usually the delam will spread onceyou start prepping it.Good luck,Reed from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Jul 8 19:55:47 1998 Subject: Re: Re: delamination ? List,I have re-glued many a rod using thinned down waterproof carpenter typegluesand have not had one fail yet, ( some of these are going on 20 years) . Ialways make sure that there is no flaky glue particles on sections before Ire-glue tho.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Jul 8 19:58:42 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Payne 102 taper Harry,I would like that taper.Bret from mleider@postoffice.ptd.net Wed Jul 8 23:12:43 1998 Subject: T&T Taper anyone have the taper for a T&T 8'6" 5wt. Henry's Fork?....a friend of mineis looking for it....thanks! matt leidermanhttp://home.ptd.net/~mleider/ from channer@hubwest.com Thu Jul 9 00:03:19 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AF6C1D0100F8; Wed, 08 Jul 1998 23:04:44 MDT Subject: Re: Payne 102 taper At 03:21 PM 7/8/98 -0400, you wrote:Randall-I missed the Payne 102 @ Grayrock. Alan Medved had a Payne 100 thatwas areally sweet rod. Anyway here's the Payne 102 taper.Payne 102...8', 2piece, 5wt measurements from an unvarnished rodTip0" - .0645" - .08610" - .10615" - .11820" - .13025" - .14430" - .15735" - .17040" - .18245" - .19448" - .200Butt0" - .2065" - .22510" - .23615" - .25020" - .27025" - .28430" - .30635" - .32840" - swell to .350 Cheers, Dennis P.S. If anyone wants the Payne 100 taper let me know and I'll post it. Dennis; I am sure I am not the only taper maniac that would like to add the Payne100 to his collection, so post away, and thanks alot for the 102. I had theopporunity to look at (but not cast, it was a howling blizzard that day) anunmarked Payne rod this winter and I think, judging by the measurements,that it was a 102. Did they come as 3-piece rods as well as 2- piece? John Channer from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Thu Jul 9 06:47:36 1998 post.interalpha.net(8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id MAA00926 for ;Thu, 9 Jul 1998 12:48:47+0100 Subject: Re: delamination ? Clip RO>This may be true, although I've seen some delaminated rods fixed withRO>thinned Elmer's white glue that have held up for a long time (5 or 6years).RO>The problem with scraping down to fresh "wood" and regluing is youwillRO>have to delaminate the entire section to be able to scrape down tofreshRO>bamboo and if you do scrape the splines, it will change the taper. InthisRO>case opening the gap and using thinned Titebond II (essentially TB IIisRO>just like Elmer's white glue with a little waterproofing thrown in) istheRO>lesser of two evils. RO>Or, if it is truly hide glue, you might be able to wrap the delaminatedRO>section with string (cotton or braided nylon, not monofilament) andRO>gently steam the section. The heat and moisture might "reactivate"RO>the hide glue, or get adjacent hide glue to move into the delaminatedRO>section. When this works it works well, but it usually doesn't work atRO>all (I suspect that hide glue wasn't used). RO>Darryl Hayashida I guess it depends upon the value of the rod just how much effort thatI'd put into repairing the split - I work mostly with production rodsthat aren't collectors rods. If it's just an small open seam on a butt -I'd worry more about filling the gap than anything else. IMHO! I've redone several delaminations with Titebond II and then I've used anoverwrap of white silk - works fine. Heck, even Garrison's "bible" showshim using white glue on splintered cane. On a heavy butt, I might evenleave off the final overwrap depending upon how much the seam closed upwhen I finished the repair. OBTW, I use waxed dental floss for binding these repairs - glue doesn'tstick to it and it is easy to find. Removes with little effort and thenI use my fingernail to remove the excess Titebond. If it's a delamination up near the ferrule, I'd try to remove theferrule and then open the delamination with a razor blade to the end ofthe cane. Then I'd clean up the split with a razor and some acetone ordenatured acholol. Unless the delamination is heavily contaminated withlots of dry cruddy old glue, a quick scrap from a single-edged blade andthen some acetone seems to prepare the surface just fine. I've not seenthe need to re-plane the cane. Then glue and bind. All IMHO! Don Burns PS - If it's was a $10,000 Garrison - I'd take a heck of a lot more timeand effort than I do with my $150 Heddon fishing "poles"! My method's pretty well as Don's. Two other little tips. 1. To prevent the delamination from creeping further and further whenyouopen it up to put the glue in, put on strong thread stop-wraps above andbelow the affected section. 2. There always a concern that even thinned glue hasn't reached right upinto the ends of the opened splines. The best tool for pushing the glue asfar as possible is a set of mechanic's feeler gauges. These go down to verythin sizes, and yet have a degree of stiffness that allows them to be usedto push right up to the end of the slit. Obviously, you have to clean themoff after use. Not being able to apply oil on the feelers, I keep mine free from rust by storing in a little box with silica gel dessicant. John Cooper from Nodewrrior@aol.com Thu Jul 9 09:43:38 1998 Subject: Re: Payne 102 taper A 3pc 5wt probably wouldve been the #200. Rob from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Jul 9 09:46:24 1998 Subject: Re: Payne 102 taper Brett,I didn't post it, Dennis Higham did. You should have received itin his original post, and in several replies. I saved it, so if youdon't run across it, let me know and I will forward it to youdirectly.Hope this helps,Harry Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Harry,I would like that taper.Bret from sjstill@indy.net Thu Jul 9 10:24:39 1998 Subject: dry nodes? Hi All, O.K., edify me - are the nodes on the rod sections supposed to appear 'dry'?Is that due to being similar to a knot in a piece of wood? Cause forconcern or just a fact of bamboo life Also, (at the risk of being branded a heretic) does anyone use a foam brushto apply spar varnish? I've used foam with good results on woodworkingprojects and just thought it would carry over. Or is it like fly tying,where I need the urine stained left rear foot of the Lesser Mongolian 2toedSloth TIA, Steve Steve Stillabower from anglport@con2.com Thu Jul 9 11:19:46 1998 Subject: Re: dry nodes? Steve,Go with the sloth. It's close enough.Art ps: There was quite a string awhile back involving "Epiphanes foambrushes.I'm sure if you search a couple of months' Archives for that word you'll beable to round up all the opinions. If you don't know how just bounce oneback at me. As for the nodes; they're where all the fibers go to getscrambled. That's where all the node/nodeless arguments come from. Thestring ain't straight when it enters/exits those points so the "integrity"of the cane is supposedly weakened. At 10:26 AM 7/9/98 -0500, you wrote:Hi All, O.K., edify me - are the nodes on the rod sections supposed to appear'dry'?Is that due to being similar to a knot in a piece of wood? Cause forconcern or just a fact of bamboo life Also, (at the risk of being branded a heretic) does anyone use a foambrushto apply spar varnish? I've used foam with good results on woodworkingprojects and just thought it would carry over. Or is it like fly tying,where I need the urine stained left rear foot of the Lesser Mongolian 2toedSloth TIA, Steve Steve Stillabower from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Jul 9 13:52:18 1998 Subject: Re: dry nodes? In a message dated 7/9/98 9:26:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,anglport@con2.comwrites: Steve,Go with the sloth. It's close enough.Art ps: There was quite a string awhile back involving "Epiphanes foambrushes. It's John Cooper's favorite method. Darryl from fiveside@net-gate.com Thu Jul 9 14:35:34 1998 (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA04106 for ;Thu, 9 Jul 1998 15:33:45 Subject: Delam To the List,Another trick I've found useful to jam adhesive into a narrow opening isto use the tip of a duck's primary wing quill feather. Bill from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Jul 9 16:09:30 1998 Subject: Re: RE: Payne Banty? In a message dated 7/8/98 9:23:11 PM, you wrote: Yes - Sorry about that from eestlow@srminc.com Thu Jul 9 16:18:42 1998 1998)) id 8625663C.00745B02; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 16:10:54 -0500 Subject: RE: Payne Banty? With regard to the posted dimensions, were they form settings or actualflat to flat dimensions. I inadvertently erased the original post, so Idon't know if that was stated. If I remember correctly, the butt dimensionwas 0.10#. Seemed small to me. Thanks,Ed TSmithwick@aol.com on 07/09/98 04:08:50 PM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: RE: Payne Banty? In a message dated 7/8/98 9:23:11 PM, you wrote: Yes - Sorry about that from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Jul 9 16:26:46 1998 Subject: Re: RE: Payne Banty? In a message dated 7/9/98 9:20:51 PM, you wrote: They were flat to flat dimensions. No line weight was given, but I wouldguessit would be fairly light. from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Jul 9 17:39:19 1998 Subject: Got any old, sticky, decrepit silk flylines? I'm writing an article for Bamboo Flyrod Magazine (can weshorten it to BFM?) on how to restore old silk flylines. Theproblem is I live out here in the West Coast and we don'thave a lot of the old traditional fishing heritage as in some other parts of the world. There just isn't a lot of the old sticky useless silk flylines around here, and that's what I need toexperiment with. If anybody has any can you email me privatelyat salarfly@aol.com? Thanks in advance! Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Jul 9 17:40:10 1998 Subject: Calendar of Events - Bamboo Flyrod Magazine The editor of Bamboo Flyrod Magazine wanted me to pass this onto the list. If anyone is setting up a booth at any show, anywhere, as long as you are selling bamboo flyrods, email the dates to Mark Metcalf at bam- fly@pacbell.net and it will get a listing in the Calendar of Events in his magazine. It's an easy way to get some free advertising for yourevent. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Jul 9 21:24:45 1998 Subject: Re: dry nodes? Steve,If the foam brush works for you use it, I sometimes spray my rods and Isometimes apply my finish by using my fingers and rubbing it out thatway.Heck I am even thinking on trying one of these waterbased urethanes toseewhat kind of results I get from that. Bret from saweiss@flash.net Thu Jul 9 21:35:45 1998 Subject: Re: dry nodes? -----Original Message----- Subject: dry nodes? Hi All, O.K., edify me - are the nodes on the rod sections supposed to appear'dry'?Is that due to being similar to a knot in a piece of wood? Cause forconcern or just a fact of bamboo life Also, (at the risk of being branded a heretic) does anyone use a foambrushto apply spar varnish? I've used foam with good results on woodworkingprojects and just thought it would carry over. Or is it like fly tying,where I need the urine stained left rear foot of the Lesser Mongolian 2toedSloth TIA, Steve Steve Stillabower I think that J. Cooper uses a foam brush and warmed spar.Steve Weiss from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Jul 9 22:11:35 1998 Subject: Re: dry nodes? In a message dated 7/9/98 7:28:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time,Grhghlndr@aol.comwrites: Heck I am even thinking on trying one of these waterbased urethanes toseewhat kind of results I get from that. Tried it. Works okay. I figured I might as well try it since the air pollutionfolks are legislating all the solvent based finishes away - in Southern California anyway. Darryl Hayashida from ragnarig@integrityol.com Fri Jul 10 01:03:00 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A06A63A025E; Thu, 09 Jul 1998 23:10:50 PDT Subject: Re: Two-handed taper (PS -I'm aware of the Payne taper in Jack Howell's book.) Dear Charlie I'm unaware of any Payne taper longer than the 10' 6" posted to the list awhile back (which, by the way, is extreme fun with a shortish two- handgrip)but if you've got one, I'd sure love to see it! Davy from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Jul 10 01:09:34 1998 Fri, 10 Jul 1998 14:09:23 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: dry nodes? back at me. As for the nodes; they're where all the fibers go to getscrambled. That's where all the node/nodeless arguments come from. Thestring ain't straight when it enters/exits those points so the "integrity"of the cane is supposedly weakened. Personaly I think the "to node or not to node" question has sort of lost something along the way. The point isn't strength as such as everyone knows rods wont just break at a node but one of the same uninterupted "strength" along each strip from handle to ferrule/ferrule totip.Does it matter? Who knows, but the rods look nice and cast well and the planing is smoother without having nodes to contend with *and* you don't need to make an oven, providing you have a kitchen. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from ragnarig@integrityol.com Fri Jul 10 01:20:20 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A481B08017C; Thu, 09 Jul 1998 23:28:17 PDT Subject: Re: Two-handed taper Charlie,I have a 12' Montague 3 piece , 2 tip two handed rod if you want this taperlet me know.bret Dear Bret I would love to have a look at this taper, as well as any other detailsconcerning its construction, provenance and, especially, your comments onits performance. Thanks,Davy from ragnarig@integrityol.com Fri Jul 10 01:38:11 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A8B14D20166; Thu, 09 Jul 1998 23:46:09 PDT Subject: Re: Delam To the List,Another trick I've found useful to jam adhesive into a narrow opening isto use the tip of a duck's primary wing quill feather. Bill Bill Great for varnish tricks, too, and the neat part is that the ones you can'tmake good wings out of are perfect for painting! Davy from ragnarig@integrityol.com Fri Jul 10 02:08:35 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id AFD18F0017A; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 00:16:33 PDT Subject: weird trippy thing, man boundary="----=_NextPart_000_011B_01BDAB98.99ABE540" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_011B_01BDAB98.99ABE540 I'll try to make this short. Found an old anonymous 9-footer in a junk shop, nicely flamed, slightly =thinner mid- but the butt was butchered. Figure it'd make a nice light =banty. Looked like a recent refinish- amateur but good. Took it down =to the shop and threw it in the barrel. Arm has a bad spell last week, looking for something to do, I pull this =out and strip the finish. Flaming disappears from the mid. Clean my =glasses, take it outside. Not flamed anymore. Squint real hard, still =unflamed. Now I strip the tip. Stays flamed, why wouldn't it? Mid still =unflamed. Heard trouts calling. Jumped in the truck, just got back. =Mid still blatantly unflamed. Comments? Davy ------=_NextPart_000_011B_01BDAB98.99ABE540 I'll try to make this =short. Found an old anonymous 9-footerin a = barrel. Arm has a bad spell last week, = unflamed. Comments? Davy ------=_NextPart_000_011B_01BDAB98.99ABE540-- from cmj@post11.tele.dk Fri Jul 10 05:55:29 1998 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA24998 Subject: Sv: weird trippy thing, man boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0041_01BDAC02.4D200CA0" part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01BDAC02.4D200CA0 David wrote David wrote = <I pull this out and strip = unflamed. disguising blemishes/differences in the bamboo, if You have to make = tip/bottom. Visit Your friendly local paintstore and get small blops = brown in different shades (the little plasticcontainers for films = which should pose no problems, as the shop is accustomed to mix = experiment with thickness of layers and colours.= about it. Do it myself, if everything else fails. regards Carsten ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01BDAC02.4D200CA0-- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Jul 10 07:53:02 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Two-handed taper Davy,I will mike the taper this weekend. I have not tried to use this rod yet butwill soon on St. Mary's in Sault St. Mary canada soon for salmon. I willdescribe rod at length when I get you taper.Brethave to go to work right now from rmoon@ida.net Fri Jul 10 09:17:12 1998 forged)) Subject: Re: weird trippy thing, man Davy There is a perfectly rational explanation of this phenomenon .Please, just don't ask me to tell you what it is.Ralph from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Fri Jul 10 09:35:59 1998 Subject: Payne 100 Payne 100.. 7'6", 2piece, 4wt. measurements from an unvarnished rod.0" - .0645" - .07010" - .08615" - .10120" - .11625" - .13130" - .14335" - .15540" - .16745" - .18050" - .19155" - .20360" - .21865" - .23170" - .24475" - .26880" - .30085" - .30090" - .300 no guide spacing On another note.. John C ..the 3piece, 8', 5Wt would be a model 201 (thePayne catalog lists the 200 as a light Dry fly 4wt.). Regards, Dennis from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us Fri Jul 10 09:43:41 1998 (envelope- from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us) (envelope- from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us) 1.21);10 Jul 98 10:48:41 EST EST Subject: My Monthly Question Hi, I've been reading all the e-mails about tapers. It seems that adifference of a few thousand-ths of an inch make so much of adifference between a magnificent casting tool and just another rod. What really strikes me as funny is the rather uninspiring methods ofguide placement. Some folks say a guide for every foot of rod, andthen there's the calculation based upon length / number of guides-1. Where you decide how many guides you want to use. I am certainly not a rod builder, but having refinished a couplecrummy Montagues, a South Bend, and now working on my first Bantyout of a Montague Clear Lake, I am really wondering why buildersdon't have guide placements to match the tapers for a given rod. Enjoying the list and my newfound hobby, thank you!Joe Mulvey from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Jul 10 10:21:51 1998 Subject: Re: My Monthly Question In a message dated 7/10/98 7:46:06 AM Pacific Daylight Time,jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us writes: I am certainly not a rod builder, but having refinished a couplecrummy Montagues, a South Bend, and now working on my first Bantyout of a Montague Clear Lake, I am really wondering why buildersdon't have guide placements to match the tapers for a given rod. Because guide placement isn't that critical.I posted the same question about a monthago, asked in a different way, and nobody had an answer. So, I tried out severalconfigurations. The only time I could tellthere was a difference was when I went down to 4 snake guides on a 7 foot blank.5, 6, 7 or 8 snake guides had no effect on thecasting. Evenly spaced, shorter spacing asyou get to the tip, no difference. My advice on guide spacing - Do what looksgood. If it doesn't look funny, such as 4 guideson a 7 foot rod, it will cast just as well as anyother spacing scheme. Darryl Hayashida from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Fri Jul 10 12:53:12 1998 (MET DST) Subject: Re: Calendar of Events - Bamboo Flyrod Magazine SalarFly@aol.com wrote: The editor of Bamboo Flyrod Magazine wanted me to pass this onto the list. If anyone is setting up a booth at any show, anywhere, as long asyou are selling bamboo flyrods, email the dates to Mark Metcalf atbam- fly@pacbell.net and it will get a listing in the Calendar of Eventsin his magazine. It's an easy way to get some free advertising for yourevent. i will have a small 2 day show of bamboo rodbuilding at the meeting ofthe european bamboo society, here in Switzerland, at MUNTELIER, on thelake "Murten", at 22 & 23. august, in the afternoons. Thanks Stefan-- S. Grau`s atelier edelweissGespliesste Angelruten/Split Cane RodsSwiss Flyfishing Schoolhttp://www.BuchLang.com/~grau Adresse:Brunnadernstr. 11 CH - 3006 BerneTel: ++41 (0) 31 352 42 88 ab 19.00/ from 7.PME-Mail: gespliesst@bluewin.ch from swilson1@WHC.NET Fri Jul 10 13:44:24 1998 ; Subject: PHY Driggs The PHY Driggs seems to be a favorite among many. I'm sure the taperhas been posted previously, but I can't find it. Could someone lead mein the right direction? Thanks, Scott from LambersonW@missouri.edu Fri Jul 10 14:13:28 1998 (5.5.1960.3) Subject: RE: My Monthly Question One "optimum" spacing of guides is that which results in the maximumdistance from the flexed blank to the line being equal in each intervalbetween guides. That can be achieved by trial and error. Firstdetermine the number of guides that are desired and a comfortablelocation of the stripping guide.. Also determine the location of anyother guides that are "fixed". Some builders for example place a guideat the ferrule. Temporarily fasten the guides to the blank is such a waythat allows them to be easily moved, such as by using surgical tubing.String the rod and flex it to a moderate extent. Now observe themaximum distance from the taut line to the blank in any interval betweenguides. Adjust the position of the guides to make them further apart ifthe lines is closer than average to the blank, or closer together if theline is further from the blank than average. This procedure has, for me, has usually resulted in a reasonable spacingthat is aesthetically pleasing. In theory, it should provide equalpressure on the guides and thus I presume equal stress on the rod overits length. Also, the use of some method that has some demonstrablelogic behind it has had appeal for me. Bill LambersonColumbia, Missouri -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, July 10, 1998 10:48 AM Subject: My Monthly Question Hi, I've been reading all the e-mails about tapers. Itseems that adifference of a few thousand-ths of an inch make so muchof adifference between a magnificent casting tool and justanother rod. What really strikes me as funny is the ratheruninspiring methods ofguide placement. Some folks say a guide for every footof rod, andthen there's the calculation based upon length / numberof guides-1. Where you decide how many guides you want to use. I am certainly not a rod builder, but having refinisheda couplecrummy Montagues, a South Bend, and now working on myfirst Bantyout of a Montague Clear Lake, I am really wondering whybuildersdon't have guide placements to match the tapers for agiven rod. Enjoying the list and my newfound hobby, thank you!Joe Mulvey from hall@Summa4.COM Fri Jul 10 14:23:36 1998 custsrv1.vitts.com(Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) 1998 19:23:34 UT with ESMTP id PAA15548 for ; Fri, 10 Jul summa4.summa4.com(8.8.5/8.7.1) with SMTP id PAA29837 for ;Fri, 10 Jul 1998 15:23:17 Subject: Re: PHY Driggs Scott,This is what I have handy. It comes from the achives around march 10ofthis year. You might want to look more...Thanks to Wayne and Tony. Dan Scott Wilson wrote: The PHY Driggs seems to be a favorite among many. I'm sure the taperhas been posted previously, but I can't find it. Could someone lead mein the right direction? Thanks, Scott from March 10 th achive: Gee there are a lot of people on this list, it took 10 mins to wade through all the Driggs taper requests. Not withstanding all the above, if you make the rod on this taper,you'll get a good rod.A bit of advise for anybody not accostomed to paras. You may be puzzled with this rod when you first try it, if you do give it a cast then put it away and think about it for a while before trying it again. Don't try overpowering it and it'll come to you. I hope I'm not out of line in posting this below but I guess it's on the archives and in the public domain so here is the posting by Wayne from sometime last year. /**********************************************************************/ As I said earlier the Driggs or Driggs River Special was a 7' 2" rod-named for a UP stream - I have cast the original when it was in theshop. AllYoungs were made on 6" center spacings starting at the butt so theoriginallisting is as follows: 0" - 203"6" - 190"12" - 160"18" - 150"24" - 138"30" - 115"36" - 095"42" - .070" 0" - 265"6" - 265"12" - 265"18" - 260"24" - 245"30" - 225"36" - 215"42" - 205" End of Wayne's post/********************************************************/ Tony again, from what I've ben told rods based on PHY have had a bad trot due to people making them on 5' centres and not the 6" as this taper is. Boy, I can almost hear all those allen keys in shaking hands excitedly adjusting planing forms now:-) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ end of archive. from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Jul 10 15:52:07 1998 head.globalcom.net(8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id QAA11061; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 16:52:03 -0400 Subject: Re: PHY Driggs In case anyone interested - There was an original for sale at RustyGates Fly Shopwhen we were at Grayling for about $2500. It also had the separated corkhandle on thisone - got to be fished to be appreciated. Chris On Fri, 10 Jul 1998 15:23:15 -0400, Dan Hall wrote: Scott,This is what I have handy. It comes from the achives around march10 ofthis year. You might want to look more...Thanks to Wayne and Tony. Dan Scott Wilson wrote: The PHY Driggs seems to be a favorite among many. I'm sure the taperhas been posted previously, but I can't find it. Could someone lead mein the right direction? Thanks, Scott from March 10 th achive: Gee there are a lot of people on this list, it took 10 mins to wade through all the Driggs taper requests. Not withstanding all the above, if you make the rod on this taper,you'll get a good rod.A bit of advise for anybody not accostomed to paras. You may be puzzled with this rod when you first try it, if you do give it a cast then put it away and think about it for a while before trying it again. Don't try overpowering it and it'll come to you. I hope I'm not out of line in posting this below but I guess it's on the archives and in the public domain so here is the posting by Wayne from sometime last year. /**********************************************************************/ As I said earlier the Driggs or Driggs River Special was a 7' 2" rod-named for a UP stream - I have cast the original when it was in theshop. AllYoungs were made on 6" center spacings starting at the butt so theoriginallisting is as follows: 0" - 203"6" - 190"12" - 160"18" - 150"24" - 138"30" - 115"36" - 095"42" - .070" 0" - 265"6" - 265"12" - 265"18" - 260"24" - 245"30" - 225"36" - 215"42" - 205" End of Wayne's post/********************************************************/ Tony again, from what I've ben told rods based on PHY have had a bad trot due to people making them on 5' centres and not the 6" as this taper is. Boy, I can almost hear all those allen keys in shaking hands excitedly adjusting planing forms now:-) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ end of archive. from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Jul 10 16:22:29 1998 head.globalcom.net(8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id RAA16687; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 17:22:22 -0400 Subject: Catskill Rodmakers Gathering To All Robert Reid asked me to pass this on - there will be flyers in thePlaning Form and Iwill scan theposter Kim has made up and post to the Rodmakers homepage as soon asthey send it to me. But here are the details: Sat and Sun September 12/13 at the Catskill Fly Fishing Center inRoscoe NY. Startsat 0900 in the morning. Cost this year to cover Lunch and coffee and roomis $35. As always, there will be an interesting program and lots of goodrods. place - makereservationsnow - I just did - phone is 607-498-5220 - remember this is about 100yards from the famousjunctionpool - so fishing is allowed at these things. We have always have had agood time here. Chris from Nodewrrior@aol.com Fri Jul 10 16:52:31 1998 Subject: Re: PHY Driggs Scott et. al,Be sure to convert the numbers from 6" to 5" stations.(!) Stetzer's HexrodinRodmakers will do it. I LOVE my copy! Rob from Leessinker@aol.com Fri Jul 10 17:38:28 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine/ May - June Saw a bunch at the loal Orvis shop, said to myself, "Self, if you buy it now it will be in the mailbox when you get home sopass".Well needless to say that it's been two days now and still no magazine.The editor told me it was the "Issue from hell" .Don't give up the faith. With one eye on the mailbox and an ear to the ground. Dewayne from Leessinker@aol.com Fri Jul 10 18:20:37 1998 Subject: Re: My Monthly Question Determining guide spacing and placement is always time consuming andnot afavorite chore especially with the interuption of ferrules.Found the "guide " program in Wayne's "Hexrod " program , answer a fewquestions a bada bing bada boom you got it in print. What a time saver,Thanks Wayne.BTW I believe "hexrod " is available online :http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htmalso comes with Wayne's book Dewayne from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Fri Jul 10 18:32:30 1998 Subject: Two-handed taper Davy-I've got a couple of old Payne catalogs. The 1951 issue lists 8 models of Two-Handed Salmon Rods, from a model 221 at 10 1/2 feet to a model 228at14 feet (19 1/2 - 20 1/4 oz.) . I don't have any of the tapers but that 14footer is the longest Payne I can find. Just the thing if you're after MobyDick Dennis from channer@hubwest.com Fri Jul 10 18:40:27 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A6BF35B00FC; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 17:41:51 MDT Subject: Re: weird trippy thing, man At 12:20 AM 7/10/98 -0700, you wrote:I'll try to make this short. Found an old anonymous 9-footer in a junk shop, nicely flamed, slightlythinner mid- but the butt was butchered. Figure it'd make a nice lightbanty. Looked like a recent refinish- amateur but good. Took it down tothe shop and threw it in the barrel. Arm has a bad spell last week, looking for something to do, I pull thisout and strip the finish. Flaming disappears from the mid. Clean myglasses, take it outside. Not flamed anymore. Squint real hard, stillunflamed. Now I strip the tip. Stays flamed, why wouldn't it? Mid still unflamed.Heard trouts calling. Jumped in the truck, just got back. Mid stillblatantly unflamed. Comments? Davy Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\ATTACH\weirdtri.htm" Davy;Like, far out, must have a stained mid section,bro. Stain it again so itmatches up and cool the lingo, you'll date yourself. Outasite in Colorado John Channer from KDLoup@aol.com Fri Jul 10 21:14:39 1998 Subject: Re: Frazer Book List,If anyone is interested, Don Conner Fine Books (916)443-2223 has acopyof Amateur Rodmaking for $27.50. The reference # is 10335. Kurt Loup from anglport@con2.com Sat Jul 11 08:45:33 1998 Subject: Re: My Monthly Question Darryl,I don't think the placement or number of guides is as critical for thecasting as it is for the fish-fighting. You don't want the rod to be dividedinto too few secant-like sections when you've got a monster on the otherendof the line. It could conceivably be the "end-of-the-line" for the rod!That's where I've always assumed the placement was MOST critical. (Itdon'tmean a thing if you can't fight that "King" (salmon, that is!))IMHO,Art At 11:21 AM 7/10/98 EDT, you wrote:In a message dated 7/10/98 7:46:06 AM Pacific Daylight Time,jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us writes: I am certainly not a rod builder, but having refinished a couplecrummy Montagues, a South Bend, and now working on my first Bantyout of a Montague Clear Lake, I am really wondering why buildersdon't have guide placements to match the tapers for a given rod. Because guide placement isn't that critical.I posted the same question about a monthago, asked in a different way, and nobody had an answer. So, I tried out severalconfigurations. The only time I could tellthere was a difference was when I went down to 4 snake guides on a 7 foot blank.5, 6, 7 or 8 snake guides had no effect on thecasting. Evenly spaced, shorter spacing asyou get to the tip, no difference. My advice on guide spacing - Do what looksgood. If it doesn't look funny, such as 4 guideson a 7 foot rod, it will cast just as well as anyother spacing scheme. Darryl Hayashida from rmoon@ida.net Sat Jul 11 09:54:05 1998 Subject: Re: My Monthly Question I am of the opinion that guide placement is quite important. I Haveseen a rod tip broken, because the last snake guide before the tiptopwas spaced too far down the rod. When the guy attached his fly to thehook keeper and took up the slack it just snapped the tip. It is soeasy to attach the guides temporarily and check the contour of the linein the guides, that it seems almost criminal not to do it. I rarely usesomeone else's guide spacing except to establish a base line. Makingthe spacing look good is a damned poor way of doing the job.Ralph from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Jul 11 10:07:56 1998 Subject: Re: My Monthly Question Ralph I agree with you - guide spacing is very important. First becauseof the reason you give and the second is for performance. I hear all thetalk about stress curves on tapers and then for someone to stick guides onwilly nilly doesn'tmake sense. Guides have weight and that equates to moments - that willchangethe performance of a taper - if you do not consistantly mount the guidesthe samethen how can you play with the taper numbers? It has to be consistant fora rod. Chris On Sat, 11 Jul 1998 08:46:35 -0600, Ralph W Moon wrote: I am of the opinion that guide placement is quite important. I Haveseen a rod tip broken, because the last snake guide before the tiptopwas spaced too far down the rod. When the guy attached his fly to thehook keeper and took up the slack it just snapped the tip. It is soeasy to attach the guides temporarily and check the contour of the linein the guides, that it seems almost criminal not to do it. I rarely usesomeone else's guide spacing except to establish a base line. Makingthe spacing look good is a damned poor way of doing the job.Ralph Regards Chris from rcurry@top.monad.net Sat Jul 11 10:32:01 1998 Subject: Re: My Monthly Question Ralph W Moon wrote: I am of the opinion that guide placement is quite important. I Haveseen a rod tip broken, because the last snake guide before the tiptopwas spaced too far down the rod. When the guy attached his fly to thehook keeper and took up the slack it just snapped the tip. It is soeasy to attach the guides temporarily and check the contour of the linein the guides, that it seems almost criminal not to do it. I rarely usesomeone else's guide spacing except to establish a base line. Makingthe spacing look good is a damned poor way of doing the job.RalphRalph,I couldn't agree more regarding the ease of getting the correct guidespacing. What is the cost of a few feet of masking tape, as compared toa strained or broken rod?Your friend with the broken rod tip is typical of one easy way to losethe last 4-10" of rod. Most of the old rods have a few inches short offone tip (although the guide spacing was probably correct). I'll bet thatin many cases, the angler had reeled in his line, put his fly on thehookkeeper, started through the woods grasping the rod, butt first, andtripped. What would occur then is that his hand would tighten on thegrip, and the line, but, as the reel struck the ground his hand wasmoved forward, tightening the line and forcing the rod tip into a 270degree bend. Snap! I speak from experience.Best regards,Reed from rmoon@ida.net Sat Jul 11 11:18:27 1998 Subject: Re: My Monthly Question Chris and Art Thank you for the kind words. I am afraid I came on alittle strong, and I am sorry, but it is gratifying to know that othersfeel as I do.Ralph from jcole10@juno.com Sat Jul 11 12:32:00 1998 13:30:53 EDT Subject: Re: My Monthly Question Several months back RodCrafters had an article ( STATIC DEFLECTION FORGUIDE SPACING) by Michael Linge . This method works real well onspinningrods and I believe it will work just as well on cane. I have notcompleted my first rod yet so I havn't had a chance to use it. There isalso a drawing with the article and I would be happy to send a copy tosomeone who can post it John ColeP.S. Had a great time at the gathering. _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Jul 11 13:36:44 1998 Subject: Re: My Monthly Question In a message dated 7/11/98 8:00:10 AM Pacific Daylight Time,rmoon@ida.netwrites: When the guy attached his fly to thehook keeper and took up the slack it just snapped the tip. Good! We are finally getting some discussion on this subject. This is not a flame, it's a question I really want to know the answer to.How does the placement of snake guides prevent the breaking of thetip in this case? Seems to me the pressure on the tip from pulling straight back wouldn't be affected at all by the placement of the first snake guide. Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Jul 11 13:44:02 1998 Subject: Re: My Monthly Question In a message dated 7/11/98 8:12:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time,cbogart@shentel.net writes: I agree with you - guide spacing is very important. First becauseof the reason you give and the second is for performance. I hear all thetalk about stress curves on tapers and then for someone to stick guideson willy nilly doesn'tmake sense. Guides have weight and that equates to moments - that will changethe performance of a taper - if you do not consistantly mount the guidesthe samethen how can you play with the taper numbers? It has to be consistant rod. Guide weights in calculating stress curves, at least in the programs I have looked at, and in my own spreadsheet, are averaged over the length of the rod the same way varnish weight is. I believe this is a reasonable way todo it, since guide weights aren't that great (as compared to a ferrule forinstance), and usually are placed fairly close together. Darryl from fcfp@ix.netcom.com Sat Jul 11 14:06:59 1998 ix12.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) 3303@ix.netcom.com, Camp@ix.netcom.com, Hill@ix.netcom.com,PA@ix.netcom.com, 17011@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Frazer Book Check Interlok.com..... There are 12 different listings for this book -- ranging from a firstaddition @$70 to one for $15. Great source for used out of print books..... KDLoup@aol.com wrote: List,If anyone is interested, Don Conner Fine Books (916)443-2223 has acopyof Amateur Rodmaking for $27.50. The reference # is 10335. Kurt Loup from anglport@con2.com Sat Jul 11 14:56:16 1998 Subject: Re: Frazer Book Fred,I just went to Interlok.com and can't find a thing about books-new or used.Any suggestions? They'll put mine on a CD, but.....Waddamydoinrong?Art At 03:04 PM 7/11/98 -0400, you wrote:Check Interlok.com..... There are 12 different listings for this book -- ranging from a firstaddition @$70 to one for $15. Great source for used out of print books..... KDLoup@aol.com wrote: List,If anyone is interested, Don Conner Fine Books (916)443-2223 has acopyof Amateur Rodmaking for $27.50. The reference # is 10335. Kurt Loup from fcfp@ix.netcom.com Sat Jul 11 18:48:01 1998 ix16.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) 3303@ix.netcom.com, Camp@ix.netcom.com, Hill@ix.netcom.com,PA@ix.netcom.com, 17011@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Frazer Book ART & all: My ERROR: It's interloc.com from there you should have a 'home page' withinstructions as tohow to search by title, author, subject, etc or any combination there-of. I do have the info to go directly to a search page but this should be easierandeliminate other confusion. Sorry for the inconvenience....... FRED Art Port wrote: Fred,I just went to Interlok.com and can't find a thing about books-new orused.Any suggestions? They'll put mine on a CD, but.....Waddamydoinrong?Art At 03:04 PM 7/11/98 -0400, you wrote:Check Interlok.com..... There are 12 different listings for this book -- ranging from a firstaddition @$70 to one for $15. Great source for used out of print books..... KDLoup@aol.com wrote: List,If anyone is interested, Don Conner Fine Books (916)443-2223 hasa copyof Amateur Rodmaking for $27.50. The reference # is 10335. Kurt Loup from anglport@con2.com Sat Jul 11 19:18:31 1998 Subject: Re: Frazer Book Fred,I think it was Dinah Washington who sang: What a diff-rence a KAY makes.........24 little hours....Thanks,Art At 07:45 PM 7/11/98 -0400, you wrote:ART & all: My ERROR: It's interloc.com from there you should have a 'home page' withinstructions as tohow to search by title, author, subject, etc or any combination there-of. I do have the info to go directly to a search page but this should beeasier andeliminate other confusion. Sorry for the inconvenience....... FRED Art Port wrote: Fred,I just went to Interlok.com and can't find a thing about books-new orused.Any suggestions? They'll put mine on a CD, but.....Waddamydoinrong?Art At 03:04 PM 7/11/98 -0400, you wrote:Check Interlok.com..... There are 12 different listings for this book -- ranging from a firstaddition @$70 to one for $15. Great source for used out of print books..... KDLoup@aol.com wrote: List,If anyone is interested, Don Conner Fine Books (916)443-2223 hasa copyof Amateur Rodmaking for $27.50. The reference # is 10335. Kurt Loup from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sat Jul 11 21:53:42 1998 Subject: Re: How to break a tip I heard from an older tounament caster that alot of old tips were brokendueto the popularity of automatic reels...Ugh! Rob from channer@hubwest.com Sat Jul 11 23:36:34 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id ADA525BB014E; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:37:57 MDT Subject: 7'6 ' 4wt. Hi guys;I am looking for a fast action taper for someone buying their first canerod, anyone have any favorites they care to recommend? My personalfavorite4wt. is the Paul Young Midge i built, but I have heard some negativeremarks about stretching this to an 8' rod, so I suppose going to 7'6"wouldn't be much better. The 7'6' 4wt. variation of the Sir D that Wayneposted looks to me like it should be such a rod, but I am still a touchuncertain as to how the numbers translate into action. I have beenfollowing the list for some time and have most, if not all of the booksout, so anyone that cares to respond doesn't have to go to the trouble ofposting the taper, unless it is not otherwise available, just name it and Iprobably have it on file. Thanks to all.John Channer from jfoster@gte.net Sun Jul 12 00:17:47 1998 Subject: [Fwd: (no subject)] 73075929FBC5E2A77F057A55" This is