from ragnarig@integrityol.com Wed Jul 1 00:55:06 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A0F62A301B2; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 23:02:30 PDT Subject: Re: updated page Dear Robert Page looks great. Thanks! But could someone please let us know (thosewhodon't already) who it is we are looking at in those pictures? Sadly, someof us may never get there in person. Davy from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Jul 1 09:30:36 1998 Subject: Re: updated page Davy, I only know the identity of a few of them. Chris Bogart took thephotos. Maybe folks who want to be identified will let the list knowwhichshot they are in. Glad you liked the page. I had fun with it. Robert Clarke ----------From: David Riggs Subject: Re: updated pageDate: Tuesday, June 30, 1998 11:07 PM Dear Robert Page looks great. Thanks! But could someone please let us know (thosewhodon't already) who it is we are looking at in those pictures? Sadly,someof us may never get there in person. Davy from RVenneri@aol.com Wed Jul 1 14:35:40 1998 Subject: test This is a test No mail Today? from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Jul 1 15:37:13 1998 head.globalcom.net(8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id QAA10696; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 16:36:58 -0400 Subject: Node Bombs To Whom it May Concern Do you know how hard it is to restrain my rodmaking class fromsending Node Bombs? Seemslike somebody started this "tradition" a while back and it has gainedpopularity. Well sleeptight tonightand don't open any unmarked packages.. Chris P.S. You can check out their progress on my homepage. from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Wed Jul 1 18:54:46 1998 Subject: Payne Banty Anyone out there have the taper for a Payne banty?? Would be a 4'4"probably 2wt. There were only about 2 or 3 made. Have a friend looking forthe taper Thanks, Dennis from CampblRods@aol.com Wed Jul 1 20:40:57 1998 Subject: Quad tapers Does anyone have a 7' or 7 1/2' quad taper? Thanks Steve CampbellCampblRods@aol.com from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Thu Jul 2 06:05:54 1998 post.interalpha.net(8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id MAA30019 for ;Thu, 2 Jul 1998 12:12:34+0100 Subject: Re: TEST and note. Testing. I seem to have been bounced off the list: unless, that is, everyonehas gone fishing. Any me specific mails have failed to reach me for two days. John Cooper from ragnarig@integrityol.com Thu Jul 2 08:48:09 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A14C8DA0240; Thu, 02 Jul 1998 06:55:24 PDT Subject: Re: TEST and note. Testing. I seem to have been bounced off the list: unless, that is,everyonehas gone fishing. Any me specific mails have failed to reach me for two days. John Cooper John Read you Lima Charlie. Just a slow day, I guess. Davy from DEMARALON@aol.com Thu Jul 2 08:59:18 1998 Subject: Re: TEST and note. This happened to us a few weeks ago and it took two re-listing requestsbeforewe were re-instated. Patience and fortitude!! Harold Demarest from Nodewrrior@aol.com Thu Jul 2 09:12:21 1998 Subject: Re: Anybody need NS tubing? A rodmaker friend of mine got left holding the bag on a NS ferrule tubeorderthat was supposed to be split-the other guy backed out. Anyway, ifanybodywants some NS tubing for ferrules contact me for his name and ph#. I'msurehe'd let it go for a decent price.NIETHER PARTY IN THIS DEAL ARE LIST MEMBERS by the way. Rob from r.schiller@worldnet.att.net Thu Jul 2 14:14:49 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP Subject: Re: Anybody need NS tubing? -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Anybody need NS tubing? A rodmaker friend of mine got left holding the bag on a NS ferrule tubeorderthat was supposed to be split-the other guy backed out. Anyway, ifanybodywants some NS tubing for ferrules contact me for his name and ph#. I'msurehe'd let it go for a decent price.NIETHER PARTY IN THIS DEAL ARE LIST MEMBERS by the way. Rob Rob: Am very much interested R. Schiller5809Summit View LaneCrestwood Ky(502) 222 0586 If you give me his number I will call. Many thanks,Dick from chafferm@isd.net Thu Jul 2 14:35:15 1998 Subject: Hardy Rod boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BDA5C6.3974B760" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BDA5C6.3974B760 I Have a 7' Hardy - "CC" de France bamboo rod with the number: H 8006 on =the ring, on the handle near the real seat. It came in a partitioned =cloth bag with a pocket. Does anybody know how old or what the value of =this rod might be? Oh, by the way it has the original finish and it is =in excellent condition. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BDA5C6.3974B760 I Have a 7' Hardy - "CC"= bamboo rod with the number: H 8006 on the ring, on the handle near the = seat. It came in a partitioned cloth bag with a pocket. Does anybody = old or what the value of this rod might be? Oh, by the way it has the = finish and it is in excellent condition. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BDA5C6.3974B760-- from gwbarnes@gwi.net Thu Jul 2 15:10:36 1998 Subject: Re: Payne Banty dennis higham wrote: Anyone out there have the taper for a Payne banty?? Would be a 4'4"probably 2wt. There were only about 2 or 3 made. Have a friend lookingforthe taper Thanks, If all else fails, I have the taper for a 6' 2 wt designed with Histand'sprogram a few years back. Real exciting rod with a 12" to 14" brookie.Feelslike a trophy fish and the rod takes on about a semi-circularconfiguration.GWB Dennis from gwbarnes@gwi.net Thu Jul 2 15:14:27 1998 Subject: Re: Quad tapers CampblRods@aol.com wrote: Does anyone have a 7' or 7 1/2' quad taper?ThanksSteve CampbellCampblRods@aol.com As with the 2 WT, I've a taper produced with Histand's program. 7' for 5wt. Dimensions for both a single piece rod and for a two piece. I'vefished the single piece and think it both a good feeling and lucky rod.Charlie Hisey tried it a week ago and may want to comment.GWB from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Thu Jul 2 15:25:28 1998 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id IAA09345 for ;Fri, 3 Jul 1998 08:25:18+1200 Subject: Re: Hardy Rod Craig,The rod would have been made in 1956. The CC de France is one of the moresort after Hardy rods by collectors and is considered one of the "top of therange" models . Value has a lot to do with condition . Lawsons list two sales in their 1997price guide as $350 and $425 for rods in good-excellent condition howeverIhave seen a number listed for sale recently at prices more then 50% abovethat . Turner lists a sale at over $600 . The value will also be influenced $100-200 . I recall John saying he had bought one for 175 pounds( i think ) , in poorcondition but restorable , and considering he had a very good buy . Johnmayalso be more in touch with present British prices but it is probably worthmore then $600 in excellent condition with one tip . regards Ian Kearney At 02:32 PM 2/07/98 -0500, you wrote:I Have a 7' Hardy - "CC" de France bamboo rod with the number: H 8006 onthe ring, on the handle near the real seat. It came in a partitioned clothbag with a pocket. Does anybody know how old or what the value of thisrodmight be? Oh, "deleted "Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz from ragnarig@integrityol.com Thu Jul 2 16:00:06 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A69460A01B2; Thu, 02 Jul 1998 14:07:32 PDT Subject: Re: Quad tapers As with the 2 WT, I've a taper produced with Histand's program. 7' for 5wt. Dimensions for both a single piece rod and for a two piece. I'vefished the single piece and think it both a good feeling and lucky rod.Charlie Hisey tried it a week ago and may want to comment.GWB Dear George I, for one would love to see these tapers, if you wouldn't mind. Strong casting and good fish-fighting qualities are nice but "lucky" has tooutweigh them both :-) Davy from CampblRods@aol.com Thu Jul 2 17:25:53 1998 Subject: Re: Quad tapers George, I'd really like to see those quad tapers if you have time to postthem. I'm just getting into quads and would like to gather a few differenttapers to experiment with. Thanks for the reply!Steve CampbellBrewer,MECampblRods@aol.com from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Thu Jul 2 18:17:27 1998 (8.8.5/8.6.6) with Subject: Re: Hardy Rod On Thu, 2 Jul 1998, Craig Hafferman wrote: I Have a 7' Hardy - "CC" de France bamboo rod with the number: H 8006 onthe ring, on the handle near the real seat. It came in a partitionedcloth bag with a pocket. Does anybody know how old or what the value ofthis rod might be? Oh, by the way it has the original finish and it isin excellent condition. Hi Craig, I own that rod. Mine was built 1957, two tips with original tags. Wouldneed to know if your's is 1 or 2 tips to place a value on it. Regards, Bob Bob Perry \|/Fly Supplies: ::==,#=#*oFlytying materials (_ /|\Flyfishing equipmentRodbuilding componentsemail: flysupplies@yahoo.comhttp://www.mwflytyer.com/rightangle/http://www.VirtualFlybox.com/okumaEmail catalog by request. from Nodewrrior@aol.com Thu Jul 2 19:20:35 1998 Subject: Re: Anybody need NS tubing? Dick, Thanks for your interest. My friend is Homer Jennings of ColoSprings...EXCELLENT rodmaker. His ph# (719)573-8923. You can call tohammerout $$etc. I'm certain it's all ferrule tubing. It's due in any week now Iunderstand. Rob Hoffhines from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Jul 3 10:49:25 1998 Subject: Have a great 4th! All, Just got back from my UK vacation (didn't get a chance to link-up withJohn Cooper) and want to wish everyone (on the USA side of the pond) ahappy 4th. I hope to catch up on some overdue rod repair work over the long weekendand then will get to "enjoy" painting the spare bedroom over theremaining days off. Don Burns from cphisey@neca.com Fri Jul 3 11:15:42 1998 Subject: Re: Quad tapers At 04:00 PM 7/2/98 -0700, you wrote: CampblRods@aol.com wrote: George Barnes wrote:As with the 2 WT, I've a taper produced with Histand's program. 7' for 5wt. Dimensions for both a single piece rod and for a two piece. I'vefished the single piece and think it both a good feeling and lucky rod.Charlie Hisey tried it a week ago and may want to comment.GWB Well,I'm not sure if it was the rod or the fisherman that was lucky buttheone piece 7'of George's that I fished with is a fine casting rod,kicks out aline,short or long,with ease.It will be my 1st attempt at a quad rod,thoughI'll go for the 2 piece version(7'rod cases are a bit much for me)whenever Italk George out of the taper.A keeper for sure.Charles Hisey from cmj@post11.tele.dk Fri Jul 3 12:46:28 1998 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA42666 Subject: Sv: Hardy Rod boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01BDA6BB.89EDCC40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BDA6BB.89EDCC40 Fra: Craig Hafferman I Have a 7' Hardy - "CC" de France bamboo rod with the number: H = Hi Craig Try phoning House of Hardy, phone UK prefix 0665 510027 House of =Hardy, Countrystore and Museum. They are nice people. Have done so on a =number of occasions, and with succes. regards Carsten ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BDA6BB.89EDCC40 Fra: Craig Hafferman I Have a 7' Hardy - = bamboo rod with the number: H 8006 on the ring, Hi Craig Try phoning House of Hardy, = 0665 510027 House of Hardy, Countrystore and Museum. They are nice = Have done so on a number of occasions, and with succes. regards Carsten ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BDA6BB.89EDCC40-- from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Fri Jul 3 14:05:47 1998 Subject: Southern Rodmaker Gathering Friends, This will be going out next week. Since the idea was birthed here,I wanted to let you know first. If you can be present, or give apresentation, or help in any other way, please let me know so that Ican include that information in the publicity. I'd like to include,with your permission, names of those planning to attend. At thispoint there is no charge to anyone at all except me. If this getsmore structured, (like providing food) then break even only chargesmay become necessary.Let me know what you can do or bring. Also, any suggestions onhow to make this work better are welcome. Thanks,Harry Boyd (fbcwin@fsbnet.com) SOUTHERN BAMBOO RODMAKERS GATHERING A Southern Rodmakers Gathering will be held prior to the SouthernCouncil Federation of Fly Fishers Conclave at Mountain Home, Arkansas,October 2- 4,1988. This will be an informal gathering held at the Riverside Pavillionof Quarry State Park on the Norfork River, Thursday October 1, 1988.Plans are to gather 30+ rodmakers together, cast each other's rods,hear and see presentations from any and all volunteers, split someculms, plane some strips, demonstrate tools, swap equipment, askquestions, brag, laugh, eat, drink, and fish one of the best troutstreams in the world.All Rodmakers and potential rodmakers should make plans toattend. Bring all your rods and what tools you can carry, and learn from the other Rodmakers present.The Pavillion is equipped with a large BBQ pit available to anyonewho wants to cook. Bring your own food and drink, or make a quick runto the small town of Norfork to eat at one of the cafes.Hopes are that this will be the fore-runner of more formalgatherings in days to come. Many talented rodmakers live and work inthe Southern United States and have little opportunity to attendsimilar gatherings in other parts of the country. By holding thisfirst informal gathering we hope to develop an annual time and place Any Rodmaker interested in giving a presentation or demonstratingany area of bamboo rodmaking, please contact Harry Boyd at(318)435-4359 or (318)435-2278 (evenings). from "drobert@agt.net"@agt.net Fri Jul 3 19:55:08 1998 clgrps05.agt.net" ident:"IDENT-NOT-QUERIED [port 35137]") by mailgate.telusplanet.net withESMTP id ; Fri,3 Jul 1998 18:54:44 -0600 with SMTP id; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 18:53:49 -0600 Subject: Re: Makers Rod Unsubscribe WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: As an addition to Chris' post - I would personally like to thank allthosewho helped to make this project a success - the makers - those thatpurchasedtickets and those that helped to promote it - a Great Job by all. As a side note - TTBBBQ IV I think was the best ever in respect toboththe money raised for the rivers and the good time had by all - I might aswell tell now - I ended up being one of two folks that were tossed intotheAuSable - my toss only raised $150 - while Vic Edwards' raised $400. -Havingbeen tossed I can personally attest to the drying ability of the AquaDesignshirts - great shirt.Grayrock 98 - there were rumors of several larger than 20" fish beingcaught - as a TroutBum I wouldn't believe any of the numerous picturesthatmight be shown - with the popularity of computer photo retouching thesethingscan be faked - and after all the fishing really couldn't be that good. unsubscribe ASAP Drobert from emiller257@dataflo.net Fri Jul 3 20:31:10 1998 wddataflo.dataflo.net(8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA29777 for ;Fri, 3 Jul 1998 20:32:59 Subject: Re: Grayrock report Chris Bogart wrote: Rob Sorry to see you go - been fun. The Hex Hatch has been awesome - one Monster Hatch hasbeen going on - it is prime time up here right now - everyone had beenout fishing at night - Steve Southard had some pictures to post on thetrout bums homepage - but remember it is hex hatch time - everyoneone beenout late fishing (past midnight). The real festivities begin tomorrow but a number of people are herealready and it has been good fun - good rods - good fishing. Here is a small picture of the JJ rod and it's very first fish. Chris On Thu, 25 Jun 1998 01:10:25 EDT, Nodewrrior@aol.com wrote: Sadly today I had to leave Grayrock 98 to get back to my day gig...(ugh)Some things of interest to report on:The hex hatch is cooking along fine, alot of fish in the 13"-16" rangeand afew 20"s in the group!The maker rod got finished and looks teriffic! It is quite a movingexperince to hold the thing in your hands and see all the names inked oneachstrip...Chris Bogart's redoing of the "JJ Lives" taper is a splendid easy going,yetauthoritative 7' 4wt. The rod has tons of character and a surprisingreserveof power. Chris says Jerry will soon post the taper along with a niftyLeonardtournament 8' 3wt. Gentlemen, let's hope it's very soon!So many great rods to cast, Builders from as far away as Austria-AlexdoesGREAT work by the way, and a splendid fisherman as well-he got one ofthe 20+inchers. He and his friend Christoph (sp?) were tons of fun as they gottoexperience the warmth and silliness on the ol' American Trout Bumculture infull force!ALOT of people showed up today as I was sadly leaving, if anybody outthereis still deciding to go or not, pack yer car immediately and go!! Rob Hoffhines ---------------------------------------------------------------Chris, thanks for thereports. All of us that couldnt attend looked forward to the posts you sent and the pictures. Looks like everyone had a great time. Have a nice holiday! Ed M from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Sat Jul 4 03:43:00 1998 post.interalpha.net(8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id JAA05249 for ;Sat, 4 Jul 1998 09:50:08+0100 Subject: Re: Hardy Rod At 08:25 03/07/98 +1200, you wrote:Craig,The rod would have been made in 1956. The CC de France is one of themoresort after Hardy rods by collectors and is considered one of the "top oftherange" models . Value has a lot to do with condition . Lawsons list two sales in their1997price guide as $350 and $425 for rods in good-excellent conditionhowever Ihave seen a number listed for sale recently at prices more then 50%abovethat . Turner lists a sale at over $600 . The value will also be influenced $100-200 . I recall John saying he had bought one for 175 pounds( i think ) , in poorcondition but restorable , and considering he had a very good buy . Johnmayalso be more in touch with present British prices but it is probably worthmore then $600 in excellent condition with one tip . regards Ian Kearney At 02:32 PM 2/07/98 -0500, you wrote:I Have a 7' Hardy - "CC" de France bamboo rod with the number: H 8006 onthe ring, on the handle near the real seat. It came in a partitioned clothbag with a pocket. Does anybody know how old or what the value of thisrodmight be? Oh, "deleted "Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz I paid £150 for an 8', and that WAS a bargain. Most had one tip only, although I think Hardy's would have made additionaltips for anyone who specified them. $600 for an excellent rod with one tipsounds about right. The 7' would be less popular here, but, I guess, morepopular than the 8' in the States. I grass cast my eight-footer with temporary guides taped on (waiting forbronzed guides to arrive) and it's lovely. Slowish, but with a powerful andcontrolled sort of character. John Cooper from pinky@coslink.net Sat Jul 4 11:14:26 1998 Subject: Out of Date (Was Re: Makers Rod 99) You high-tech guys make me want to just puke. What is wrong with a boxof Crayolas ans some Big Chief , wide-lined paper? The kind of paperthat still has pieces of wood showing in it. That's for me. Dr.Kim-BobRO>Robert, RO>Actually you're not "out of date". Unless you own a Sinar-Leaf digitalRO>camera, AND are willing to lug around a computer, AND don't mind onlyRO>being able to take one photo every 3 minutes, you will get higherqualityRO>(and cheaper) from a $50 35mm camera and a refurbished Nikon LS-20RO>film scanner at $600. You'll get 2700 dpi OPTICAL scan quality (notRO>interpolated),RO>30 bit color depth, and save about $125,000 over the Sinar-Leaf. For$1000RO>in digital camera bucks, you only get about 1024x768 pixels vs.2700x4050RO>forRO>the $650 conventional / film scanner option. RO>George Bourke RO>----------RO>> From: Robert Clarke RO>> Subject: Re: Makers Rod 99RO>> Date: Saturday, June 20, 1998 1:11 PMRO>>RO>>RO>>RO>>RO>> I'll volunteer a page as well if needed. So I am a little out of date.RO>IRO>> don't even have a scanner yet! Have fun.RO>>RO>>RO>> Robert from rmoon@ida.net Sat Jul 4 21:37:16 1998 Subject: Re: test test only from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sun Jul 5 08:48:31 1998 0500 Subject: test Sorry for the bandwidth. Is the list working? Did I get bumped again?Or is everyone with their families for the holidays?Harry Boyd from channer@hubwest.com Sun Jul 5 08:51:26 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A534239E0152; Sun, 05 Jul 1998 07:52:52 MDT Subject: Vince Marinaro Hi Guys!I just finished reading all of the exerpts from The Ring of the Rise onFlyanglersonline.Very interesting. Is there more on rodbuilding in thebook itself? Also, has anyone figured out what one of Vince's taperswould look like? John Channer from duke746@email.msn.com Sun Jul 5 10:16:29 1998 SMTPSVC;Sun, 5 Jul 1998 08:15:51 -0700 Subject: test This just a test to see if my system is working from RVenneri@aol.com Sun Jul 5 11:15:54 1998 Subject: Re: test HarryI think everything is working OK everyone must be fishing but me and youBob VVenneri's Custom Components21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882 from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Jul 5 15:57:18 1998 Subject: Re: Have a great 4th! Don,i am glad to see I am not the only one painting over the 4TH.Bret from anglport@con2.com Sun Jul 5 16:51:56 1998 Subject: Re: test Bob,Nah, I'm here too. Ya wanna have a gabfest? We could do a reading of ThreeMen in a Tub....Since I'm off for the summer I try to make it easier onmyself and the rest of the guys and go out only on weekdays. That way Ionlyhave to contend with the retirees astream!Just a-sittin' and a- monitorin',Art At 12:14 PM 7/5/98 EDT, you wrote:HarryI think everything is working OK everyone must be fishing but me and youBob VVenneri's Custom Components21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882 from rhicks@d.umn.edu Sun Jul 5 20:11:52 1998 mail.d.umn.edu (8.8.6.Beta3/8.8.3) with SMTP id UAA28670 for; Sun, Subject: Payne Tapers I cast a Payne 102 taper at the Grayrock gathering a week ago and reallyliked it. I was wondering if anyone had the taper for this rod or the Payne204, 205 or 206? Thanks for any help. Randall Hicks from parkerdh@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Mon Jul 6 00:15:48 1998 with ESMTP id XAA53442 Sun, 5 Jul 1998 23:15:43 -0600 (parkerdh@localhost) with SMTP id XAA51052 Sun, 5 Jul 1998 23:15:41 -0600 Subject: Re: Payne Tapers Randall, a Payne 104 was recenly posted by someone a week or two ago.This is an 8 1/2 ' taper similar to the one you seek. I'm sure Iprinted it out so if you can't find it I'll look it up for you. Let meknow if you obtain information on the 102. David Parker On Sun, 5 Jul 1998, randall hicks wrote: I cast a Payne 102 taper at the Grayrock gathering a week ago and reallyliked it. I was wondering if anyone had the taper for this rod or thePayne204, 205 or 206? Thanks for any help. Randall Hicks from tom@cet-inc.com Mon Jul 6 07:38:59 1998 Subject: Re: Vince Marinaro JohnSince the beginning of this year, a small group of us in Central PA havebeen negotiating with representatives of the Marinaro family in anattemptto acquire the Marinaro Collection to be the cornerstone of a Fly FishingCenter and Museum in Central PA. We have recently received a letter fromtheMarinaro attorney providing an agreement in principal for the transfer ofthe Marinaro collection. We have until December of 1998 to form ournon-profit organization and gather financial support for our new Center.Those of us who have started this effort are active in two local TUChapters(Cumberland Valley and Doc Fritchey). This collection is impressive and,with the exception of the Halford collection in England, perhaps the finestin the world. Pennsylvania also has many other fly fishing notables thatcanbe featured in a Museum. The center will also serve as an educationalcenter Now to the rods and tapers. There are about 15 rods in the collection, afewof which I have had the opportunity to cast. They are wonderful rods,especially the shorter ones made in later years. One of our goals is topublish a book on Vince's rods including the tapers to generate funds forthe new center. A few fellow rod makers from the East have offered tohelpin this effort. I have attached pictures of two of Vince's small 1970'srods, the Guppy and the Guppy Jr. (I hope adding photo files does not causetwo much of a technological incident for the list). Anyone's thoughts or suggestions are welcome. You can email me directlyifyou want. I'll keep the list updated with our progress. Tom Whittle ----------From: channer Subject: Vince MarinaroDate: Sun, Jul 5, 1998, 9:45 AM Hi Guys!I just finished reading all of the exerpts from The Ring of the Rise onFlyanglersonline.Very interesting. Is there more on rodbuilding in thebook itself? Also, has anyone figured out what one of Vince's taperswould look like? John Channer from tom@cet-inc.com Mon Jul 6 10:03:25 1998 Subject: test Test---------- from CPETERS@rivertrade.com Mon Jul 6 10:24:38 1998 with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 06 Jul 1998 10:08:49 -0600 Subject: I wi I will be out of the office until Wednesday, July, 15th. If your messageneeds an immediateresponse, please contact Merry at ext. 4367. (This is an automatic reply.) from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Mon Jul 6 10:45:48 1998 Subject: Grayrock '98 Tapers part 2. Now for the rest of the story... 6', 2piece, 4wt. QUAD made by a Wisconsin rodmaker named Irgins (firstnameunknown).measured over varnishTip1" .061, .06355" .070, .069510" .0755, .07615" .092, .092520" .110, .108526" .122, .12230" .1275, .129341/2" .1255, .1235Butt - measured from the end of the bamboo inside the female ferrule not from the end of the ferrule.2" .1515, .15055" .155, .148510" .161, .16116" .1765, .17620" .1865, .192 (node)241/2" .203, .2055 No guide spacing ...Chris Bogart has the rod on loan maybe he'll give usthe guide spacing???------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------- Reed Curry's 9', 3piece, 3wt. Montague, ..over varnishTip1/2" .075, .075, .07555" .0875, .0870, .087510" .0985, .101, .1005141/2" .1135, .1135, .11620" .126, .1275, .128525" .1445, .1415, .13830" .153, .1555, .1545341/8" .150, .153, .160 Mid - measured from the end of the bamboo inside the female ferrule nottheend of the ferrule2" .169, .175, .173547/8" .1785, .178, .17610" .1875, .189, .19015" .207, .206, .203520" .220, .214, .218241/2" .228, .2285, .23130" .238, .244, .2465331/4" .242, .247, .248 Butt - measured from the end of the bamboo2" .2545, .250, .25441/2" .263, .265, .2655101/4" .289, .2875, .286515" .300, .3025, .296520" .3165, .3185, .3200241/2" .380, .3885, .3805 Guide spacing 41/2, 10, 157/8, 213/4, 281/8, 377/8, 451/8, 531/8,615/8,701/8 (against ferrule), 753/8 (stripper)------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----Last one.. Reed Curry's 8', 3piece, 5wt. F.E. Thomas .. over varnish Tip1" .0775, .0775, .0775" .087, 086, .09110" .105, .1075, .107515" .126, .1275, .130191/2" .131, .133, .13821" .1385, .1415, .143525" .1475, .1495, .146530" .1695, .168, .1685 Mid - measured from the end of the ferrule (I think..I'm trying to find outif this was measured from the ferrule or end of bamboo..would make about3/4" difference)3" .1775, .1815, .18255" .185, .1835, .184510" .200, .201, .19715" .202, .204, .20620" .220, .220, .22026" .245, .239, .235291/2" .240, .237, .235 Butt - measured from the end of the ferrule (same caveat)4" .260, .267, .27010" .278, .273, .28015" .287, .286, .28920" .303, .303, .303Swell starts @ 20" to .375 at the winding check @ 23". That's it for Grayrock '98. Regards, Dennis from OBorge@aiss.uic.edu Mon Jul 6 10:52:15 1998 Subject: RE: Grayrock '98 Tapers part 2. Rodmakers,The 6'0" quad's maker is John Irgens.Sorry the miss spelling was mine. Olaf BorgeSystems Programmer/System SoftwareUniversity of Illinois/AISS/CNO312/996-5212 -----Original Message-----From: dennis higham [SMTP:76250.1771@compuserve.com]Sent: Monday, July 06, 1998 10:42 AM Subject: Grayrock '98 Tapers part 2. Now for the rest of the story... 6', 2piece, 4wt. QUAD made by a Wisconsin rodmaker named Irgins (firstnameunknown).measured over varnishTip1" .061, .06355" .070, .069510" .0755, .07615" .092, .092520" .110, .108526" .122, .12230" .1275, .129341/2" .1255, .1235Butt - measured from the end of the bamboo inside the female ferrulenot from the end of the ferrule.2" .1515, .15055" .155, .148510" .161, .16116" .1765, .17620" .1865, .192 (node)241/2" .203, .2055 No guide spacing ...Chris Bogart has the rod on loan maybe he'll giveusthe guide spacing???------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------- Reed Curry's 9', 3piece, 3wt. Montague, ..over varnishTip1/2" .075, .075, .07555" .0875, .0870, .087510" .0985, .101, .1005141/2" .1135, .1135, .11620" .126, .1275, .128525" .1445, .1415, .13830" .153, .1555, .1545341/8" .150, .153, .160 Mid - measured from the end of the bamboo inside the female ferrulenot theend of the ferrule2" .169, .175, .173547/8" .1785, .178, .17610" .1875, .189, .19015" .207, .206, .203520" .220, .214, .218241/2" .228, .2285, .23130" .238, .244, .2465331/4" .242, .247, .248 Butt - measured from the end of the bamboo2" .2545, .250, .25441/2" .263, .265, .2655101/4" .289, .2875, .286515" .300, .3025, .296520" .3165, .3185, .3200241/2" .380, .3885, .3805 Guide spacing 41/2, 10, 157/8, 213/4, 281/8, 377/8, 451/8, 531/8,615/8,701/8 (against ferrule), 753/8 (stripper)------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----Last one.. Reed Curry's 8', 3piece, 5wt. F.E. Thomas .. over varnish Tip1" .0775, .0775, .0775" .087, 086, .09110" .105, .1075, .107515" .126, .1275, .130191/2" .131, .133, .13821" .1385, .1415, .143525" .1475, .1495, .146530" .1695, .168, .1685 Mid - measured from the end of the ferrule (I think..I'm trying tofind outif this was measured from the ferrule or end of bamboo..would makeabout3/4" difference)3" .1775, .1815, .18255" .185, .1835, .184510" .200, .201, .19715" .202, .204, .20620" .220, .220, .22026" .245, .239, .235291/2" .240, .237, .235 Butt - measured from the end of the ferrule (same caveat)4" .260, .267, .27010" .278, .273, .28015" .287, .286, .28920" .303, .303, .303Swell starts @ 20" to .375 at the winding check @ 23". That's it for Grayrock '98. Regards, Dennis from tom@cet-inc.com Mon Jul 6 12:57:39 1998 Subject: Re: Vince Marinaro JohnSince the beginning of this year, a small group of us in Central PA havebeen negotiating with representatives of the Marinaro family in anattemptto acquire the Marinaro Collection to be the cornerstone of a Fly FishingCenter and Museum in Central PA. We have recently received a letter fromtheMarinaro attorney providing an agreement in principal for the transfer ofthe Marinaro collection. We have until December of 1998 to form ournon-profit organization and gather financial support for our new Center.Those of us who have started this effort are active in two local TUChapters(Cumberland Valley and Doc Fritchey). This collection is impressive and,with the exception of the Halford collection in England, perhaps the finestin the world. Pennsylvania also has many other fly fishing notables thatcanbe featured in a Museum. The center will also serve as an educationalcenter Now to the rods and tapers. There are about 15 rods in the collection, afewof which I have had the opportunity to cast. They are wonderful rods,especially the shorter ones made in later years. One of our goals is topublish a book on Vince's rods including the tapers to generate funds forthe new center. A few fellow rod makers from the East have offered tohelpin this effort. We are looking for other ways to use the rod tapers to raisefunds, maybe something along the lines of the makers rod which was sosuccessful. Itried to attach some pictures of Vince's small 1970's rods, the "Guppy" and the"Guppy Jr". My post was rejected because of size with the photos attached. Any Ideasonhow to share them would be appreciated. (I remember problems in the past whenphotos were attached to postings to the list). Anyone's thoughts or suggestions are welcome. You can email me directlyifyou want. I'll keep the list updated with our progress. Tom Whittle ----------From: channer Subject: Vince MarinaroDate: Sun, Jul 5, 1998, 9:45 AM Hi Guys!I just finished reading all of the exerpts from The Ring of the Rise onFlyanglersonline.Very interesting. Is there more on rodbuilding in thebook itself? Also, has anyone figured out what one of Vince's taperswould look like? John Channer from rmoon@ida.net Mon Jul 6 13:49:14 1998 Subject: Re: Vince Marinaro Tom, My best wishes on your effort. Let me know if I can help Ralph Moon from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Jul 6 15:03:41 1998 Subject: Re: Southern Rodmaker Gathering Harry Boyd wrote:Friends, This will be going out next week. Since the idea was birthed here,I wanted to let you know first. If you can be present, or give apresentation, or help in any other way, please let me know so that Ican include that information in the publicity. I'd like to include,with your permission, names of those planning to attend. At thispoint there is no charge to anyone at all except me. If this getsmore structured, (like providing food) then break even only chargesmay become necessary.Let me know what you can do or bring. Also, any suggestions onhow to make this work better are welcome. Thanks,Harry Boyd (fbcwin@fsbnet.com) Sorry, my server has been on the blink, and I've received no responseyet. If you posted a response Friday - Monday, please send it to meagain. Thanks,Harry from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Jul 6 16:13:19 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Vince Marinaro In a message dated 7/6/98 6:03:19 PM, you wrote: Tom - The attachment did not get to me through the list. When I tried thisafew months ago with the binder pictures, I had a lot of problems also.Almosteveryone was able to access the photos when I set them up as a site atAOL. Iunderstand that every major internet provider allows you a few megabytesto dothis. It turned out to be a fairly simple thing to do. I would suggest you tryit this way. I would also be glad to help with the book or the museum in any way I can. from hokkaido_flyfisher@yahoo.com Mon Jul 6 16:14:20 1998 Subject: what to do ... Dear Rodmakers, I've got one week to finish up my first rod before leaving for the States. It looks good, and casts nicely. As of yet, I still need to apply the varnish.I am concerned that if I do so, then I won't be able take a still tacky rod with me ... If I take an unvarnished rod, fish with it for a few weeks, then varnish it when I return home ... any problems? Cheers, Christian==Mr. Christian THALACKER Otaru University of CommerceMatsugae 2-6-30 Otaru International Center #253047-0022 Hokkaido JAPAN Midori 3-5-21 Otaru047 Hokkaido JAPAN http://members.tripod.com/~Nijimasu/O.htmlIf something goes wrong, blame the guy who can't speak English._________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from kgabd@uswest.net Mon Jul 6 16:31:05 1998 Subject: Re: Grayrock '98 Tapers part 2. dennis higham wrote: Now for the rest of the story... 6', 2piece, 4wt. QUAD made by a Wisconsin rodmaker named Irgins (firstnameunknown).measured over varnishTip1" .061, .06355" .070, .069510" .0755, .07615" .092, .092520" .110, .108526" .122, .12230" .1275, .129341/2" .1255, .1235Butt - measured from the end of the bamboo inside the female ferrulenot from the end of the ferrule.2" .1515, .15055" .155, .148510" .161, .16116" .1765, .17620" .1865, .192 (node)241/2" .203, .2055 No guide spacing ...Chris Bogart has the rod on loan maybe he'll give usthe guide spacing???------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------- Reed Curry's 9', 3piece, 3wt. Montague, ..over varnishTip1/2" .075, .075, .07555" .0875, .0870, .087510" .0985, .101, .1005141/2" .1135, .1135, .11620" .126, .1275, .128525" .1445, .1415, .13830" .153, .1555, .1545341/8" .150, .153, .160 Mid - measured from the end of the bamboo inside the female ferrule nottheend of the ferrule2" .169, .175, .173547/8" .1785, .178, .17610" .1875, .189, .19015" .207, .206, .203520" .220, .214, .218241/2" .228, .2285, .23130" .238, .244, .2465331/4" .242, .247, .248 Butt - measured from the end of the bamboo2" .2545, .250, .25441/2" .263, .265, .2655101/4" .289, .2875, .286515" .300, .3025, .296520" .3165, .3185, .3200241/2" .380, .3885, .3805 Guide spacing 41/2, 10, 157/8, 213/4, 281/8, 377/8, 451/8, 531/8,615/8,701/8 (against ferrule), 753/8 (stripper)------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----Last one.. Reed Curry's 8', 3piece, 5wt. F.E. Thomas .. over varnish Tip1" .0775, .0775, .0775" .087, 086, .09110" .105, .1075, .107515" .126, .1275, .130191/2" .131, .133, .13821" .1385, .1415, .143525" .1475, .1495, .146530" .1695, .168, .1685 Mid - measured from the end of the ferrule (I think..I'm trying to find outif this was measured from the ferrule or end of bamboo..would makeabout3/4" difference)3" .1775, .1815, .18255" .185, .1835, .184510" .200, .201, .19715" .202, .204, .20620" .220, .220, .22026" .245, .239, .235291/2" .240, .237, .235 Butt - measured from the end of the ferrule (same caveat)4" .260, .267, .27010" .278, .273, .28015" .287, .286, .28920" .303, .303, .303Swell starts @ 20" to .375 at the winding check @ 23". That's it for Grayrock '98. Regards,DennisName is John Irgens, 1228 Duke St., Rice Lake, WI 54868. phone:715 2342573. kg from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon Jul 6 16:53:37 1998 Subject: Re: Vince Marinaro Tom, I was recently talking to Sid Neff, who has a slide presentation about Vince. I had the good fortune to meet Vince on two occasions whenhe was doing seminars in Toronto. ----------From: Tom Subject: Re: Vince MarinaroDate: Monday, July 06, 1998 9:47 AM JohnSince the beginning of this year, a small group of us in Central PA havebeen negotiating with representatives of the Marinaro family in anattemptto acquire the Marinaro Collection to be the cornerstone of a Fly FishingCenter and Museum in Central PA. We have recently received a letterfromtheMarinaro attorney providing an agreement in principal for the transfer ofthe Marinaro collection. We have until December of 1998 to form ournon-profit organization and gather financial support for our new Center.Those of us who have started this effort are active in two local TUChapters(Cumberland Valley and Doc Fritchey). This collection is impressive and,with the exception of the Halford collection in England, perhaps thefinestin the world. Pennsylvania also has many other fly fishing notables thatcanbe featured in a Museum. The center will also serve as an educationalcenter Now to the rods and tapers. There are about 15 rods in the collection, afewof which I have had the opportunity to cast. They are wonderful rods,especially the shorter ones made in later years. One of our goals is topublish a book on Vince's rods including the tapers to generate funds forthe new center. A few fellow rod makers from the East have offered tohelpin this effort. I have attached pictures of two of Vince's small 1970'srods, the Guppy and the Guppy Jr. (I hope adding photo files does notcausetwo much of a technological incident for the list). Anyone's thoughts or suggestions are welcome. You can email me directlyifyou want. I'll keep the list updated with our progress. Tom Whittle ----------From: channer Subject: Vince MarinaroDate: Sun, Jul 5, 1998, 9:45 AM Hi Guys!I just finished reading all of the exerpts from The Ring of the Rise onFlyanglersonline.Very interesting. Is there more on rodbuilding in thebook itself? Also, has anyone figured out what one of Vince's taperswould look like? John Channer from stpete@netten.net Mon Jul 6 17:01:12 1998 cedar.netten.net(8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA20567 for ;Mon, 6 Jul 1998 17:00:25 Subject: Re: South'n Rodmkr Gathering response Harry, I'll be certain to be there and can help. I know that there are atleast two other rodmakers here in Memphis, I'll see if I can contactthem, it'll be a good way to meet them for the first time. (Some guysget kind of leery of talking to people - there are plenty of folks whoaren't serious about doing this and explaining the whole deal to themtakes a lot of time). I am familar with the river and the area. Contact me at stpete@netten.net or 901-682-8626 if you want some help. I really think this will be super since I missed out on Grayrock. Rick SOUTHERN BAMBOO RODMAKERS GATHERING A Southern Rodmakers Gathering will be held prior to the SouthernCouncil Federation of Fly Fishers Conclave at Mountain Home, Arkansas,October 2- 4,1988. This will be an informal gathering held at the Riverside Pavillionof Quarry State Park on the Norfork River, Thursday October 1, 1988.Plans are to gather 30+ rodmakers together, cast each other's rods,hear and see presentations from any and all volunteers, split someculms, plane some strips, demonstrate tools, swap equipment, askquestions, brag, laugh, eat, drink, and fish one of the best troutstreams in the world.All Rodmakers and potential rodmakers should make plans toattend. Bring all your rods and what tools you can carry, and learn from the other Rodmakers present.The Pavillion is equipped with a large BBQ pit available to anyonewho wants to cook. Bring your own food and drink, or make a quick runto the small town of Norfork to eat at one of the cafes.Hopes are that this will be the fore-runner of more formalgatherings in days to come. Many talented rodmakers live and work inthe Southern United States and have little opportunity to attendsimilar gatherings in other parts of the country. By holding thisfirst informal gathering we hope to develop an annual time and place Any Rodmaker interested in giving a presentation or demonstratingany area of bamboo rodmaking, please contact Harry Boyd at(318)435-4359 or (318)435-2278 (evenings). from thramer@presys.com Mon Jul 6 17:43:26 1998 Subject: Re: what to do ... Christian THALACKER wrote: Dear Rodmakers, I've got one week to finish up my first rod beforeleaving for the States. It looks good, and castsnicely. As of yet, I still need to apply the varnish.I am concerned that if I do so, then I won't beable take a still tacky rod with me ... If I take an unvarnished rod, fish with it fora few weeks, then varnish it when I return home ...any problems? Cheers, Christian==Mr. Christian THALACKER Otaru University of CommerceMatsugae 2-6-30 Otaru International Center #253047-0022 Hokkaido JAPAN Midori 3-5-21 Otaru047 Hokkaido JAPAN http://members.tripod.com/~Nijimasu/O.htmlIf something goes wrong, blame the guy who can't speak English._________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.comHi Christian,Apply one thin coat now, it should be cured at least OK for yourupcoming trip. One coat does what technically we want the varnish to do,seal the rod. It also (and more importantly I believe) will seal the rodagainst contamination and allow you to put another couple of coats onthe rod to 'pretty it up' when you return.A.J.Thramer from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Jul 6 17:54:40 1998 Tue, 7 Jul 1998 06:54:33 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Vince Marinaro On Mon, 6 Jul 1998, Tom wrote: JohnSince the beginning of this year, a small group of us in Central PA havebeen negotiating with representatives of the Marinaro family in anattemptto acquire the Marinaro Collection to be the cornerstone of a Fly FishingCenter and Museum in Central PA. We have recently received a letter from theMarinaro attorney providing an agreement in principal for the transfer ofthe Marinaro collection. We have until December of 1998 to form ournon-profit organization and gather financial support for our new Center.Those of us who have started this effort are active in two local TUChapters(Cumberland Valley and Doc Fritchey). This collection is impressive and,with the exception of the Halford collection in England, perhaps thefinestin the world. Pennsylvania also has many other fly fishing notables thatcanbe featured in a Museum. The center will also serve as an educationalcenter Put me down for the book when it's published. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Jul 6 18:10:05 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.1); Mon,6Jul 1998 19:13:01 -0400 Subject: Used Toolbox After remembering some recent conversations on the list I added a Used Toolbox list on the web page. I hope you all will check it out and send some mail with tools you would like listed. Hopefully, new guys will be able to get into this craft for less and you old guys (seasoned, not chronologically) will be able to try new stuff for less. Take care,Jon Lintvet8602 Wild Olive StreetPotomac, MD 20854(800) 836-7558(301) 340-0194 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Jul 6 18:53:13 1998 head.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA13415; Mon, 6 Jul1998 19:53:07 -0400 Subject: Re: what to do ... Christian I would give it at least one coat before you left. No problem - 1st coat needs to be sanded anyway - when you get backtake you fine 1200+ grit and give a good going over and dip again - thatwill provide you enough "bite" for the next coat. If you got good weather should cure but . . . other than that rememberthis: ITIS A FISHING ROD - you can always strip it and redo when you get back -best to havefished it than never to fish it at all. Chris Dear Rodmakers, I've got one week to finish up my first rod before leaving for the States. It looks good, and casts nicely. As of yet, I still need to apply the varnish.I am concerned that if I do so, then I won't be able take a still tacky rod with me ... If I take an unvarnished rod, fish with it for a few weeks, then varnish it when I return home ... any problems? Cheers, Christian==Mr. Christian THALACKER Otaru University of CommerceMatsugae 2-6-30 Otaru International Center #253047-0022 Hokkaido JAPAN Midori 3-5-21 Otaru047 Hokkaido JAPAN http://members.tripod.com/~Nijimasu/O.htmlIf something goes wrong, blame the guy who can't speak English._________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from ragnarig@integrityol.com Mon Jul 6 20:23:52 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id AA86B380078; Mon, 06 Jul 1998 18:31:50 PDT Subject: Re: Grayrock '98 Tapers part 2. Dear Dennis Thanks again for the tapers! These are always very welcome, the quadparticularly. Anybody got a good two-handed taper? Thanks,Davy from ccurrojr@mindspring.com Mon Jul 6 22:16:38 1998 Subject: Two-handed taper Could I second that request for a two-handed taper? I've been asked to make a 13-15 foot 9 or 10 wt.two-handed spey rod for someone who REALLYwants a bamboo thunder stick for salt water. If I canfind a taper, I'd like to try. I'm not sure who's crazier ....him or me. Any suggestions would be appreciated Thanks in advance,Charlie Curro(PS -I'm aware of the Payne taper in Jack Howell's book.) from channer@hubwest.com Mon Jul 6 23:20:14 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A2511CC80126; Mon, 06 Jul 1998 22:21:37 MDT Subject: Re: Vince Marinaro At 01:06 PM 7/6/98 -0500, you wrote:JohnSince the beginning of this year, a small group of us in Central PA havebeen negotiating with representatives of the Marinaro family in anattemptto acquire the Marinaro Collection to be the cornerstone of a Fly FishingCenter and Museum in Central PA. We have recently received a letter fromtheMarinaro attorney providing an agreement in principal for the transfer ofthe Marinaro collection. We have until December of 1998 to form ournon-profit organization and gather financial support for our new Center.Those of us who have started this effort are active in two local TUChapters(Cumberland Valley and Doc Fritchey). This collection is impressive and,with the exception of the Halford collection in England, perhaps thefinestin the world. Pennsylvania also has many other fly fishing notables thatcanbe featured in a Museum. The center will also serve as an educationalcenter Now to the rods and tapers. There are about 15 rods in the collection, afewof which I have had the opportunity to cast. They are wonderful rods,especially the shorter ones made in later years. One of our goals is topublish a book on Vince's rods including the tapers to generate funds forthe new center. A few fellow rod makers from the East have offered tohelpin this effort. We are looking for other ways to use the rod tapers toraisefunds, maybe something along the lines of the makers rod which was sosuccessful. Itried to attach some pictures of Vince's small 1970's rods, the "Guppy" and the"Guppy Jr". My post was rejected because of size with the photos attached. Any Ideasonhow to share them would be appreciated. (I remember problems in the past whenphotos were attached to postings to the list). Anyone's thoughts or suggestions are welcome. You can email me directlyifyou want. I'll keep the list updated with our progress. Tom Whittle Tom; Sounds great. I wish there was some way I could help, but I live inDurango,Co.I will do what I can, however, just let me know. I'm sure everylittle bit will help, and you can defineatly count me in for a copy of thebook when you publish it. The rodbuilding theory of Vince's that I haveread intrigues me, I wish I were smart enough to figure it out. John Channer from harry37@epix.net Tue Jul 7 06:56:34 1998 SMTP id HAA24221 Subject: Re: Vince Marinaro john channer wrote: At 01:06 PM 7/6/98 -0500, you wrote:JohnSince the beginning of this year, a small group of us in Central PA havebeen negotiating with representatives of the Marinaro family in anattemptto acquire the Marinaro Collection to be the cornerstone of a Fly FishingCenter and Museum in Central PA. We have recently received a letter from theMarinaro attorney providing an agreement in principal for the transferofthe Marinaro collection. We have until December of 1998 to form ournon-profit organization and gather financial support for our new Center.Those of us who have started this effort are active in two local TUChapters(Cumberland Valley and Doc Fritchey). This collection is impressive and,with the exception of the Halford collection in England, perhaps thefinestin the world. Pennsylvania also has many other fly fishing notables thatcanbe featured in a Museum. The center will also serve as an educationalcenter Now to the rods and tapers. There are about 15 rods in the collection, afewof which I have had the opportunity to cast. They are wonderful rods,especially the shorter ones made in later years. One of our goals is topublish a book on Vince's rods including the tapers to generate funds forthe new center. A few fellow rod makers from the East have offered tohelpin this effort. We are looking for other ways to use the rod tapers toraisefunds,maybe something along the lines of the makers rod which was sosuccessful. Itriedto attach some pictures of Vince's small 1970's rods, the "Guppy" andthe"Guppy Jr".My post was rejected because of size with the photos attached. Any how toshare them would be appreciated. (I remember problems in the pastwhenphotos wereattached to postings to the list). Anyone's thoughts or suggestions are welcome. You can email medirectly ifyou want. I'll keep the list updated with our progress. Tom Whittle Tom; Sounds great. I wish there was some way I could help, but I live inDurango,Co.I will do what I can, however, just let me know. I'm sureeverylittle bit will help, and you can defineatly count me in for a copy of thebook when you publish it. The rodbuilding theory of Vince's that I haveread intrigues me, I wish I were smart enough to figure it out. John Channer A few weeks ago there was a thread that talked about a beneficiary forthe 99 Maker's Rod--could this be a candidate? Greg from eestlow@srminc.com Tue Jul 7 09:44:54 1998 1998)) id 8625663A.00504EF7; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 09:37:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Out of Date (Was Re: Makers Rod 99) Can George Bourke contact me off list about the Nikon LS-20 film scanner.Iinadvertently zotted his e-mail address so sorry for the band width. I'mdumb as a stump about scanners, need to educate myself ASAP, and coulduseinformation about this one. Would Kinkos have one? Can they scan mountedslides? Etc. Any info will be appreciated. -Ed Estlow pinky@coslink.net on 07/04/98 12:12:44 PM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Out of Date (Was Re: Makers Rod 99) Actually you're not "out of date". Unless you own a Sinar-Leaf digitalcamera, AND are willing to lug around a computer, AND don't mind onlybeing able to take one photo every 3 minutes, you will get higher quality(and cheaper) from a $50 35mm camera and a refurbished Nikon LS-20film scanner at $600. You'll get 2700 dpi OPTICAL scan quality (notinterpolated), 30 bit color depth, and save about $125,000 over theSinar-Leaf. For $1000 in digital camera bucks, you only get about1024x768 pixels vs. 2700x4050for the $650 conventional / film scanneroption. George Bourke ----------From: Robert Clarke Subject: Re: Makers Rod 99Date: Saturday, June 20, 1998 1:11 PM I'll volunteer a page as well if needed. So I am a little out of date.I don't even have a scanner yet! Have fun. Robert from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Tue Jul 7 11:39:11 1998 Subject: Re: South'n Rodmkr Gathering response Rick, Thanks for the encouragement. Right now, you're on the right track.We need to publicize this and get as many as possible to attend. Please docontact any rodmakers you know who are not on the list. I'm sending thisto "The Bamboo Fly Rod" magazine, "The Planing Form", "Long Casts" (So.Council FFF), and all other rodmakers I know in the area who are not on thelist. Got any other ideas? got a guide friend who fishes with me and offers his boat, etc. to me freeif I include him in an article now and then. If you can get away early,let's make plans to fish together. Harry Rick Crenshaw wrote: Harry, I'll be certain to be there and can help. I know that there are atleast two other rodmakers here in Memphis, I'll see if I can contactthem, it'll be a good way to meet them for the first time. (Some guysget kind of leery of talking to people - there are plenty of folks whoaren't serious about doing this and explaining the whole deal to themtakes a lot of time). I am familar with the river and the area.Contact me at stpete@netten.net or 901-682-8626 if you want somehelp.I really think this will be super since I missed out on Grayrock. Rick SOUTHERN BAMBOO RODMAKERS GATHERING A Southern Rodmakers Gathering will be held prior to the SouthernCouncil Federation of Fly Fishers Conclave at Mountain Home, Arkansas,October 2- 4,1988. This will be an informal gathering held at the Riverside Pavillionof Quarry State Park on the Norfork River, Thursday October 1, 1988.Plans are to gather 30+ rodmakers together, cast each other's rods,hear and see presentations from any and all volunteers, split someculms, plane some strips, demonstrate tools, swap equipment, askquestions, brag, laugh, eat, drink, and fish one of the best troutstreams in the world.All Rodmakers and potential rodmakers should make plans toattend. Bring all your rods and what tools you can carry, and learn from the other Rodmakers present.The Pavillion is equipped with a large BBQ pit available to anyonewho wants to cook. Bring your own food and drink, or make a quick runto the small town of Norfork to eat at one of the cafes.Hopes are that this will be the fore-runner of more formalgatherings in days to come. Many talented rodmakers live and work inthe Southern United States and have little opportunity to attendsimilar gatherings in other parts of the country. By holding thisfirst informal gathering we hope to develop an annual time and place Any Rodmaker interested in giving a presentation or demonstratingany area of bamboo rodmaking, please contact Harry Boyd at(318)435-4359 or (318)435-2278 (evenings). from p036897b@pb.seflin.org Tue Jul 7 15:41:31 1998 QAA17487; Tue, 7 Jul1998 16:42:13 -0400 Subject: Rod Building either Bamboo or Graphite Dear Rodmakers, Who in the W. Palm Beach area can teach me the fine art, science & skill of rodbuilding. Clemens video and books, nor Flexcraft's cut it for me. Thanks for your help!!!! Tight Loops & Lines,Maury SchiowitzShimmer-Boo CompanyMakers of Wrapping & Dubbing Material for Fine Fly TyersW. Palm Beach, Fl. 33414 p036897b@pbfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us from stpete@netten.net Tue Jul 7 15:44:18 1998 cedar.netten.net(8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA14632 for ;Tue, 7 Jul 1998 15:43:57 Subject: Re: South'n Rodmkr Gathering response Harry, I wouldn't want to foul anybody up with anything I had to say aboutrodmaking, but I'll pitch in with space in my Pop-up and I'll bring somefirewood and supplies. I can bring tools, cane or whatever else we wantto demo. I will go up early, though I have to check my schedule to see just howearly I can come. Let's hope the midges are hatching strong and thewater is moderately low. It often is at that time. Midge emergers onthe big pools are my favorite fishing on that river. I'm building a PHYDriggs just for that river. I'll bring my kickboat so maybe we can do some floating. I think thekickboat will keep up with the driftboat since its such a short river(Norfolk). I may have to think about it if we fish the White. Rick from FLYROD777@aol.com Tue Jul 7 17:52:13 1998 Subject: Re: Vince Marinaro Where is this little group located. I will be in PA. at the end of the month. Mark Hallowell(847)688-1330 (h) from richjez@enteract.com Tue Jul 7 18:05:11 1998 (147.126.253.18) Subject: Re: Two-handed taper Here is a taper for a salmon rod from the Frazer book. Split Bamboo Salmon Rod.- Length, 14 feet 11 * inches; joints, 5 feet 1inch;weight, 26 ounces; material, six strip Calcutta bamboo. Handgrasp, double,24inches long, solid cork fitted to bamboo direct. Length of lower grasp, 7inches; diameter, 1 3/16; buttcap, 1 1/16; reelseat, 6 inches long, 1 inchindiameter; upper grasp, 11 inches long, diameter 1 3/16. Calibers: 24inches from butt, at the taper, 41/64; 30 inches, 5/8; 3 feet, 39/64; 3 * feet,19/32;4 feet, 35/64; 4 * feet, 35/64. Middle joint: Ferrule, 3 5/8 inches long,17/32; 12 inches, *; 18 inches, *; 2 feet, 31/64; 2 * feet, 15/32; 3 feet,7/16; 3 * feet, 13/32; 4 feet, 3/8; 4 * feet, 11/32, ferrule capped,welted,and serrated, 3 3/8 inches long. Tips: Ferrule, 2 5/8 inches, 21/64; 6inches5/16, 12 inches, 19/64; 3 feet, 13/64; 3 * feet, 3/16; 4 feet, 11/64; 4 *feet,9/64; at top 1/8 inch. Tops, loose ring, steel. Guides: First agate, 5-16;balance hard steel snake guides, fifteen in all. I have tried to copy this as accurately as possible. It seems interesting.Being made of Calcutta cane, if it is like the rod Reed had at Grayling, itwill not be fast, but smooth. Reed note: Calcutta cane. Rich Jezioro At 10:14 PM 7/6/98 -0500, you wrote:Could I second that request for a two-handed taper? I've been asked to make a 13-15 foot 9 or 10 wt.two-handed spey rod for someone who REALLYwants a bamboo thunder stick for salt water. If I canfind a taper, I'd like to try. I'm not sure who's crazier ....him or me. Any suggestions would be appreciated Thanks in advance,Charlie Curro(PS -I'm aware of the Payne taper in Jack Howell's book.) *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ /||/______/_||_________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Jul 7 18:06:55 1998 Subject: Re: Two-handed taper Charlie,I have a 12' Montague 3 piece , 2 tip two handed rod if you want this taperlet me know.bret from richjez@enteract.com Tue Jul 7 18:08:19 1998 (147.126.253.18) Subject: Chicago get together Is anyone planning on going to Corens for the get together on Thurs? Rich Jezioro*________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ /||/______/_||_________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Jul 7 18:11:17 1998 Subject: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine/ May - June List,Has anyone recieved May - June issue???????????????Bret from sjstill@indy.net Tue Jul 7 18:14:02 1998 Subject: delamination ? Hi All, Well, I'm doing my first restoration and I may be in over my head already -I noticed a spot of delamination on the butt section of about 1.25". It isjust affecting 1 glue joint. Any advise (other than scrapping it). TIA, Steve Steve Stillabower from hhholland@erols.com Tue Jul 7 18:30:05 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine/ May - June Bret, The fly shop where I work received their copies last Friday, but I haven'tgot my home delivery yet. Hank H.-----Original Message----- Subject: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine/ May - June List,Has anyone recieved May - June issue???????????????Bret from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Jul 7 18:35:11 1998 Subject: RE:delamination ? RO>Hi All, RO>Well, I'm doing my first restoration and I may be in over my headalready - RO>I noticed a spot of delamination on the butt section of about 1.25". ItisRO>just affecting 1 glue joint. Any advise (other than scrapping it). RO>TIA, RO>Steve Steve, If you remove the varnish and insert a single-edged razor blade into thedelam you might be amazed how long it really is or can be made to be ifyou force the gap. Do try opening up the delam. and putting a few drops of Titebond II glueinto it and then wrap with string. This should solve your problem. Don Burns from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Jul 7 18:56:03 1998 head.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA17371; Tue, 7 Jul1998 19:55:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine/ May - June HankI have talked to Mark Metcalf and he says he is awaiting slip coversto mail themto subscribers to protect them - they are delayed - but the good news isthe next issue isshortly behind this one and hopefully these problems get resolved. Chris On Tue, 7 Jul 1998 19:20:28 -0100, Hank Holland wrote: Bret, The fly shop where I work received their copies last Friday, but I haven'tgot my home delivery yet. Hank H.-----Original Message-----From: Grhghlndr@aol.com Date: Tuesday, July 07, 1998 10:15 PMSubject: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine/ May - June List,Has anyone recieved May - June issue???????????????Bret from channer@hubwest.com Tue Jul 7 19:11:39 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A9911AC900F8; Tue, 07 Jul 1998 18:13:05 MDT Subject: Re: Vince Marinaro At 08:47 AM 7/6/98 -0500, you wrote: Now to the rods and tapers. There are about 15 rods in the collection, afewof which I have had the opportunity to cast. They are wonderful rods,especially the shorter ones made in later years. One of our goals is topublish a book on Vince's rods including the tapers to generate funds forthe new center. A few fellow rod makers from the East have offered tohelpin this effort. I have attached pictures of two of Vince's small 1970'srods, the Guppy and the Guppy Jr. (I hope adding photo files does not causetwo much of a technological incident for the list). Tom;Did you get the opportunity to cast any 8 or 8.5 footers? I seem to getmore requests for these lengths than shorter rods. Vince said he preferredlonger rods and I was wondering what they cast like. Thanks and good luck John Channer from rcurry@top.monad.net Tue Jul 7 19:24:59 1998 Subject: Re: Grayrock '98 Tapers part 2. dennis higham wrote:Reed Curry's 9', 3piece, 3wt. Montague, ..over varnish Dennis,I'd like to add a note on this rod. This is indeed a Montague, but isone of those rare, (Varney designed?) artfully constructed pieces. TomSmithwick restored this with the original red Jasper wraps and fullintermediates. The NS fittings are blued and the whole piece glows withTom's superb brushed varnish finish.The reelseat is a Landman, 1890 Patent, spiral locking NS bands overhard black rubber. I've caught many fish on this rod, its a joy to cast.Best regards,Reed from Nodewrrior@aol.com Tue Jul 7 19:59:01 1998 Subject: Re: Chicago get together I'll be there... Hoffhines from MasjC1@aol.com Tue Jul 7 20:56:49 1998 Subject: Open House & Fish Census -- East Fork of the Arkansas My wife and I would like to invite Rodmakers list members to join us onSaturday July 25 for the Second Annual Open House and East Fork of theArkansas Fish Census. As a past president of the Aurora Anglers Chapterof TUwe have invited the chapter members to join us at our home on the EastFork stream access on the East Fork above the junction with Tennessee Creek. If all goes according to plan I will have finished my first two bamboo rodsbythen. Please stop by and see the finished product. The first is the Sir DFavorite, Wayne's 7' 4wt 2pc. The second is A. J. Thramer's 4' 4" 4wt 1pc. Ihad butt strips left over, and I have had a "thing" with short rods sincelastsummer when I fished a 5' Scott graphite. We are easy to find. from Leadville go north on US 24 and cross the EastFork,turn left (west) on Lake County 99, then left on Daisy Drive, thenimmediateleft again into the long driveway and you are there. We will be offline starting on July 11 but can be reached at: 27 Daisy DriveLeadville, Colorado 719-486-9049 We look forward to seeing you on July 25th. Mark and Judy Cole from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Jul 7 21:00:49 1998 Subject: !3 foot two hander In response to the request, here is a taper posted some time ago byMichaelMarklund. As I recall the story, I think he made each section with gluedsplice joints, and has a 13 foot one piece rod. I believe he still has a webpage listed at the rodmakers site.Spey Special 13' # 9-10 ButtDist(mm) - Dia(mm)0 - 14,8055 - 14,70255 - 14,20455 - 13,70655 - 13,20855 - 12,701055 - 12,201300 - 11,50 MiddleDist(mm) - Dia(mm)0 - 11,2560 - 11,00260 - 10,40460 - 10,00660 - 9,40860 - 9,101060 - 8,501305 - 8,25 TopDist(mm) - Dia(mm)0 - 8,25160 - 8,00360 - 7,30560 - 6,60760 - 5,90960 - 5,101160 - 4,301360 - 3,50 The default handle-length is 650mm. Rings could be placed:-13-15-18-20-24- 25-25-28-33-39-59 cm. The problem is to get good, thick-walled bamboo and good ferrules. Please let me know if anyone builds it and tries it. Regards...----------------------------------------------------------------Mikael Marklundmikael.marklund@orkestern.skelleftea.sehttp://www.skelleftea.se/utb/balder/personal/ba-mma/flyfish.htm ----------------------- Headers from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Wed Jul 8 01:13:10 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with ESMTP Subject: Frazer Book (was Re: Two-handed taper) Alright, what is the "Frazer" book? Thanks,George Bourke---------- Subject: Re: Two-handed taper Here is a taper for a salmon rod from the Frazer book. Rich Jezioro from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Wed Jul 8 06:05:12 1998 (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP idMAA17846 for ; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 12:06:02+0100 Subject: The Hardy's C.C.de France Hardy's C.C.de France details. I have put two extra pages onto my web site, giving all the measurementsofthe rod again, and included three photographs of the handle area to helpthose who would like to copy the rod as exactly as possible I gather that adding photographs to mailings as attachments is froughtwithdifficulty. Hopefully, anyone keen to attempt the repro will be able to copy from the web site (I don't really understand all this business very well). There seem to be a lot of rodmakers offlist at present, so I may mail thisagain when things get back to the 'normal' 30 mails a day. There is a button near the bottom of my web site home page at http://www.interalpha.net/customer/cane-rods of little interest. Bear in mind that European angling is certainly flyfishing, but there are many other methods too. Just zip straight through tothe C.C.de France link. John Cooper (England) from richjez@enteract.com Wed Jul 8 07:49:06 1998 (147.126.253.18) Subject: Re: Frazer Book (was Re: Two-handed taper) Amature Rodmaking by Perry Frazier, MacMillian & CO. 1922 At 11:17 PM 7/7/98 -0700, you wrote:Alright, what is the "Frazer" book? Thanks,George Bourke---------->From: Rich Jezioro Subject: Re: Two-handed taperDate: Tuesday, July 07, 1998 4:08 PM Here is a taper for a salmon rod from the Frazer book. Rich Jezioro *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ /||/______/_||_________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > from tom@cet-inc.com Wed Jul 8 07:58:50 1998 Subject: Re: Vince Marinaro John,In addition to the "Guppy", and a 7' for 4wt. I had an opportunity to castVince's favorite trout rod, a 9'4" for 7wt. "Penns Creek". Also, hisfavorite salmon rod the "Penobscot". As one who generally prefers shorterrods, I was suprized at how well Vince's "Penns Creek" and "Penobscot"cast.The collection includes rods ranging from the Guppy Jr. to a two-handedsalmon rod, the "Salar". I expect to be cataloging the rods later this monthor in the beginning of August. More details will be available at that time.Hopefully, we will have a website soon and we can share info and photoswithout using list space.Thanks for your interest.Tom----------From: john channer Subject: Re: Vince MarinaroDate: Tue, Jul 7, 1998, 6:05 PM Tom;Did you get the opportunity to cast any 8 or 8.5 footers? I seem to getmore requests for these lengths than shorter rods. Vince said hepreferredlonger rods and I was wondering what they cast like. Thanks and goodluck John Channer from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed Jul 8 08:32:31 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine/ May - June I had to raise a big stink with a bunch of emails and they sent it to meexpress mail!! ----------From: Grhghlndr@aol.com[SMTP:Grhghlndr@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 1998 4:10 PM Subject: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine/ May - June List,Has anyone recieved May - June issue???????????????Bret from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed Jul 8 08:35:56 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: delamination ? It wont hold for a long time, hide glue is the only glue you can regluewithout planing down to fresh wood and have it hold for a long time. Anyof the other glues will fail at the glue joint sooner or later, usuallysooner, unless you plane or scrape down to fresh wood and then reglue! ----------From: flyfisher@cmix.com[SMTP:flyfisher@cmix.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 1998 3:34 PM Subject: RE:delamination ? RO>Hi All, RO>Well, I'm doing my first restoration and I may be in over my headalready - RO>I noticed a spot of delamination on the butt section of about1.25". It isRO>just affecting 1 glue joint. Any advise (other than scrapping it). RO>TIA, RO>Steve Steve, If you remove the varnish and insert a single-edged razor blade intothedelam you might be amazed how long it really is or can be made to beifyou force the gap. Do try opening up the delam. and putting a few drops of Titebond IIglueinto it and then wrap with string. This should solve your problem. Don Burns from sjstill@indy.net Wed Jul 8 08:49:36 1998 Subject: RE: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine/ May - June At 06:32 7/8/98 -0700, Coffey, Patrick W wrote:I had to raise a big stink with a bunch of emails and they sent it to meexpress mail!! Oh yea, great idea - make the publisher pay a bunch of express mail billsthen he can't afford to publish the magazine! Why don't we all write andwhine. Brilliant. Steve Stillabower from sjstill@indy.net Wed Jul 8 09:02:55 1998 Subject: APOLOGY I APOLOGISE TO THE LIST FOR MY LAST MESSAGE - I MEANT IT TO GOPRIVATELY. Steve Steve Stillabower from santos@esinet.net Wed Jul 8 09:16:05 1998 Subject: Payne banty taper Hello rodmakers, Just joined the list and I see a bunch of familiar names. I have arequest. Does anybody know where I can find the tapers for a Payne bantyrod(4'4''). I know he made four or five of the rods. I'm wondering if thetapers are floating around somewhere. Thanks for any help. Carlos Santos from dpeaston@wzrd.com Wed Jul 8 09:31:06 1998 mail.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) Subject: Re: APOLOGY At 09:04 AM 7/8/98 -0500, Steve Stillabower wrote:I APOLOGISE TO THE LIST FOR MY LAST MESSAGE - I MEANT IT TO GOPRIVATELY. Steve Steve Stillabower Steve, You have, however matched my sentiments! -Regards to all-D.P. EastonSubscriber from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Jul 8 11:04:35 1998 Subject: Re: delamination ? If you remove the varnish and insert a single-edged razor blade intothedelam you might be amazed how long it really is or can be made to beif you force the gap. Do try opening up the delam. and putting a few drops of Titebond IIglue into it and then wrap with string. This should solve your problem. Don Burns It wont hold for a long time, hide glue is the only glue you can regluewithout planing down to fresh wood and have it hold for a long time. Anyof the other glues will fail at the glue joint sooner or later, usuallysooner, unless you plane or scrape down to fresh wood and then reglue! ---------- This may be true, although I've seen some delaminated rods fixed with thinned Elmer's white glue that have held up for a long time (5 or 6 years).The problem with scraping down to fresh "wood" and regluing is you will have to delaminate the entire section to be able to scrape down to fresh bamboo and if you do scrape the splines, it will change the taper. In this case opening the gap and using thinned Titebond II (essentially TB II is just like Elmer's white glue with a little waterproofing thrown in) is the lesser of two evils. Or, if it is truly hide glue, you might be able to wrap the delaminatedsection with string (cotton or braided nylon, not monofilament) andgently steam the section. The heat and moisture might "reactivate"the hide glue, or get adjacent hide glue to move into the delaminatedsection. When this works it works well, but it usually doesn't work at all (I suspect that hide glue wasn't used). Darryl Hayashida from Fallcreek9@aol.com Wed Jul 8 11:31:35 1998 Subject: Re: delamination ? Built a hollow casting rod using Nyatex. Delaminated approx 4" section ofglue joint in the butt thur aggressive straightening (glue surfaces onlyapprox .070" across). Put it in a bend to open the delam, smeared in a bitof2-ton epoxy and bound it up overnight. Has done a lot of hard work sincew/oany problems.RTyree from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Wed Jul 8 14:24:22 1998 Subject: Spey-taper Charles- I"m not sure where I got this taper, probably from thelistserve a long time ago. Don't know if it's a good one but it's the onlyspey-taper I have Gale&Sons, Barnstaple 13'11/2" Spey5" - .15410"- .18015"- .21220"- .21825" - .23330" - .25535" - .27440" - .28245" - .29350' - Ferrule @ 511/855" - .32560" - .34565" - .37370" - .39575" - .41280" - .42585" - .44890" - .45495" - .463100" - .480105" - ferrule110" - .482115" - .490120" - .508125" - .538130" - .543 Grip totals 25" longferrules were heavy bronze w/ 11/4 turn helix for locking.No line weight given That's all I've got..haven't run it thru hexrod to see what the stresscurve looks like but should be interesting. Regards, Dennis from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Wed Jul 8 14:24:24 1998 Subject: Payne 102 taper Randall-I missed the Payne 102 @ Grayrock. Alan Medved had a Payne 100 that wasareally sweet rod. Anyway here's the Payne 102 taper.Payne 102...8', 2piece, 5wt measurements from an unvarnished rodTip0" - .0645" - .08610" - .10615" - .11820" - .13025" - .14430" - .15735" - .17040" - .18245" - .19448" - .200Butt0" - .2065" - .22510" - .23615" - .25020" - .27025" - .28430" - .30635" - .32840" - swell to .350 Cheers, Dennis P.S. If anyone wants the Payne 100 taper let me know and I'll post it. from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Jul 8 16:07:42 1998 Subject: Payne Banty ? In response to recent requests, I checked back into The Planing Form. Ithought I had seen this taper listed. In fact I found the following,submitted taper, however. It is referred to as the 4' 4" Banty taper only. The factthatthe taper is only given to the 45" mark leads one to believe the taper came from an existing rod, so perhaps this is the Payne taper, but I don't knowforsure.0- .1385- .04610-.05915-.06220-.06925- .077 Butt26-.07930-.08435-.08940-.09445-.101 from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Jul 8 16:16:42 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA046762599; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 14:16:39 -0700 Subject: RE: Payne Banty? Thanks for the taper Tom. Should the 0" measurement be .038 rather than .138? Thanks. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from mpatters@arlington.net Wed Jul 8 17:15:19 1998 Subject: Leonard 4099 Hi All,Does anyone have an 8 ft 3 piece Leonard 4099 taper and know what size ferrules it used?ThanksMike Patterson from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Jul 8 17:17:00 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine/ May - June I saw the latest issue today at the local fly shop. Looks good. Especially the cartoon in the letters section :). Anyway, nice job Mark! Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Chris Bogart Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine/ May - JuneDate: Tuesday, July 07, 1998 4:59 PM HankI have talked to Mark Metcalf and he says he is awaiting slip coverstomail themto subscribers to protect them - they are delayed - but the good news isthe next issue isshortly behind this one and hopefully these problems get resolved. Chris On Tue, 7 Jul 1998 19:20:28 -0100, Hank Holland wrote: Bret, The fly shop where I work received their copies last Friday, but Ihaven'tgot my home delivery yet. Hank H.-----Original Message-----From: Grhghlndr@aol.com Date: Tuesday, July 07, 1998 10:15 PMSubject: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine/ May - June List,Has anyone recieved May - June issue???????????????Bret from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Jul 8 17:19:32 1998 Subject: Re: delamination ? RO>> >RO>> > If you remove the varnish and insert a single-edged razor bladeinto thRO>> > delam you might be amazed how long it really is or can be made tobeRO>> > if you force the gap. RO>> > Do try opening up the delam. and putting a few drops of Titebond IIRO>> > glue into it and then wrap with string. This should solve yourproblem.RO>> >RO>> > Don Burns RO>> It wont hold for a long time, hide glue is the only glue you can reglueRO>> without planing down to fresh wood and have it hold for a long time.AnyRO>> of the other glues will fail at the glue joint sooner or later, usuallyRO>> sooner, unless you plane or scrape down to fresh wood and thenreglue!RO>>RO>> > ---------- RO>This may be true, although I've seen some delaminated rods fixed withRO>thinned Elmer's white glue that have held up for a long time (5 or 6years).RO>The problem with scraping down to fresh "wood" and regluing is youwillRO>have to delaminate the entire section to be able to scrape down tofreshRO>bamboo and if you do scrape the splines, it will change the taper. InthisRO>case opening the gap and using thinned Titebond II (essentially TB II isRO>just like Elmer's white glue with a little waterproofing thrown in) istheRO>lesser of two evils. RO>Or, if it is truly hide glue, you might be able to wrap the delaminatedRO>section with string (cotton or braided nylon, not monofilament) andRO>gently steam the section. The heat and moisture might "reactivate"RO>the hide glue, or get adjacent hide glue to move into the delaminatedRO>section. When this works it works well, but it usually doesn't work atRO>all (I suspect that hide glue wasn't used). RO>Darryl Hayashida I guess it depends upon the value of the rod just how much effort thatI'd put into repairing the split - I work mostly with production rodsthat aren't collectors rods. If it's just an small open seam on a butt -I'd worry more about filling the gap than anything else. IMHO! I've redone several delaminations with Titebond II and then I've used anoverwrap of white silk - works fine. Heck, even Garrison's "bible" showshim using white glue on splintered cane. On a heavy butt, I might evenleave off the final overwrap depending upon how much the seam closed upwhen I finished the repair. OBTW, I use waxed dental floss for binding these repairs - glue doesn'tstick to it and it is easy to find. Removes with little effort and thenI use my fingernail to remove the excess Titebond. If it's a delamination up near the ferrule, I'd try to remove theferrule and then open the delamination with a razor blade to the end ofthe cane. Then I'd clean up the split with a razor and some acetone ordenatured acholol. Unless the delamination is heavily contaminated withlots of dry cruddy old glue, a quick scrap from a single-edged blade andthen some acetone seems to prepare the surface just fine. I've not seenthe need to re-plane the cane. Then glue and bind. All IMHO! Don Burns PS - If it's was a $10,000 Garrison - I'd take a heck of a lot more timeand effort than I do with my $150 Heddon fishing "poles"! from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Jul 8 18:19:45 1998 Subject: Re: Payne 102 taper Dennis,I'd like to have a look at it if you have the chance.Thanks,Harry Boyd dennis higham wrote:P.S. If anyone wants the Payne 100 taper let me know and I'll post it. from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Wed Jul 8 19:38:09 1998 Subject: Chicago Get Together I'll be there Dennis from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Jul 8 19:39:23 1998 Subject: Re: RE: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine/ May - June List,I called and talked to Mark about May June issue and he told me it was inthemail and that there was a mix up on shipping and the shops got it first. I AlsoMark told me that the next issue was close behind, seems they had somedifficulty getting this one out. One other thing too, if you guys want thismagazine to make it and you have any writing skills at all then send in anarticle and they will publish it. Don't worry to much about whether or notyour sentence structure is right as that is what editors are paid for. Alsoe-mail Mark any ideas you have or any tips you have for rod building andrelated items. Bret from rcurry@top.monad.net Wed Jul 8 19:41:08 1998 Subject: Re: delamination ? Coffey, Patrick W wrote: It wont hold for a long time, hide glue is the only glue you can regluewithout planing down to fresh wood and have it hold for a long time. Anyof the other glues will fail at the glue joint sooner or later, usuallysooner, unless you plane or scrape down to fresh wood and then reglue! Steve,I must agree, in part, with Patrick - if the original glue was hide, itis very easy and fast to reglue with hide. Further, different glues willeffect a decided change to the action. This may not be significant onthe small section you describe, but usually the delam will spread onceyou start prepping it.Good luck,Reed from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Jul 8 19:55:47 1998 Subject: Re: Re: delamination ? List,I have re-glued many a rod using thinned down waterproof carpenter typegluesand have not had one fail yet, ( some of these are going on 20 years) . Ialways make sure that there is no flaky glue particles on sections before Ire-glue tho.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Jul 8 19:58:42 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Payne 102 taper Harry,I would like that taper.Bret from mleider@postoffice.ptd.net Wed Jul 8 23:12:43 1998 Subject: T&T Taper anyone have the taper for a T&T 8'6" 5wt. Henry's Fork?....a friend of mineis looking for it....thanks! matt leidermanhttp://home.ptd.net/~mleider/ from channer@hubwest.com Thu Jul 9 00:03:19 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AF6C1D0100F8; Wed, 08 Jul 1998 23:04:44 MDT Subject: Re: Payne 102 taper At 03:21 PM 7/8/98 -0400, you wrote:Randall-I missed the Payne 102 @ Grayrock. Alan Medved had a Payne 100 thatwas areally sweet rod. Anyway here's the Payne 102 taper.Payne 102...8', 2piece, 5wt measurements from an unvarnished rodTip0" - .0645" - .08610" - .10615" - .11820" - .13025" - .14430" - .15735" - .17040" - .18245" - .19448" - .200Butt0" - .2065" - .22510" - .23615" - .25020" - .27025" - .28430" - .30635" - .32840" - swell to .350 Cheers, Dennis P.S. If anyone wants the Payne 100 taper let me know and I'll post it. Dennis; I am sure I am not the only taper maniac that would like to add the Payne100 to his collection, so post away, and thanks alot for the 102. I had theopporunity to look at (but not cast, it was a howling blizzard that day) anunmarked Payne rod this winter and I think, judging by the measurements,that it was a 102. Did they come as 3-piece rods as well as 2- piece? John Channer from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Thu Jul 9 06:47:36 1998 post.interalpha.net(8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id MAA00926 for ;Thu, 9 Jul 1998 12:48:47+0100 Subject: Re: delamination ? Clip RO>This may be true, although I've seen some delaminated rods fixed withRO>thinned Elmer's white glue that have held up for a long time (5 or 6years).RO>The problem with scraping down to fresh "wood" and regluing is youwillRO>have to delaminate the entire section to be able to scrape down tofreshRO>bamboo and if you do scrape the splines, it will change the taper. InthisRO>case opening the gap and using thinned Titebond II (essentially TB IIisRO>just like Elmer's white glue with a little waterproofing thrown in) istheRO>lesser of two evils. RO>Or, if it is truly hide glue, you might be able to wrap the delaminatedRO>section with string (cotton or braided nylon, not monofilament) andRO>gently steam the section. The heat and moisture might "reactivate"RO>the hide glue, or get adjacent hide glue to move into the delaminatedRO>section. When this works it works well, but it usually doesn't work atRO>all (I suspect that hide glue wasn't used). RO>Darryl Hayashida I guess it depends upon the value of the rod just how much effort thatI'd put into repairing the split - I work mostly with production rodsthat aren't collectors rods. If it's just an small open seam on a butt -I'd worry more about filling the gap than anything else. IMHO! I've redone several delaminations with Titebond II and then I've used anoverwrap of white silk - works fine. Heck, even Garrison's "bible" showshim using white glue on splintered cane. On a heavy butt, I might evenleave off the final overwrap depending upon how much the seam closed upwhen I finished the repair. OBTW, I use waxed dental floss for binding these repairs - glue doesn'tstick to it and it is easy to find. Removes with little effort and thenI use my fingernail to remove the excess Titebond. If it's a delamination up near the ferrule, I'd try to remove theferrule and then open the delamination with a razor blade to the end ofthe cane. Then I'd clean up the split with a razor and some acetone ordenatured acholol. Unless the delamination is heavily contaminated withlots of dry cruddy old glue, a quick scrap from a single-edged blade andthen some acetone seems to prepare the surface just fine. I've not seenthe need to re-plane the cane. Then glue and bind. All IMHO! Don Burns PS - If it's was a $10,000 Garrison - I'd take a heck of a lot more timeand effort than I do with my $150 Heddon fishing "poles"! My method's pretty well as Don's. Two other little tips. 1. To prevent the delamination from creeping further and further whenyouopen it up to put the glue in, put on strong thread stop-wraps above andbelow the affected section. 2. There always a concern that even thinned glue hasn't reached right upinto the ends of the opened splines. The best tool for pushing the glue asfar as possible is a set of mechanic's feeler gauges. These go down to verythin sizes, and yet have a degree of stiffness that allows them to be usedto push right up to the end of the slit. Obviously, you have to clean themoff after use. Not being able to apply oil on the feelers, I keep mine free from rust by storing in a little box with silica gel dessicant. John Cooper from Nodewrrior@aol.com Thu Jul 9 09:43:38 1998 Subject: Re: Payne 102 taper A 3pc 5wt probably wouldve been the #200. Rob from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Jul 9 09:46:24 1998 Subject: Re: Payne 102 taper Brett,I didn't post it, Dennis Higham did. You should have received itin his original post, and in several replies. I saved it, so if youdon't run across it, let me know and I will forward it to youdirectly.Hope this helps,Harry Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Harry,I would like that taper.Bret from sjstill@indy.net Thu Jul 9 10:24:39 1998 Subject: dry nodes? Hi All, O.K., edify me - are the nodes on the rod sections supposed to appear 'dry'?Is that due to being similar to a knot in a piece of wood? Cause forconcern or just a fact of bamboo life Also, (at the risk of being branded a heretic) does anyone use a foam brushto apply spar varnish? I've used foam with good results on woodworkingprojects and just thought it would carry over. Or is it like fly tying,where I need the urine stained left rear foot of the Lesser Mongolian 2toedSloth TIA, Steve Steve Stillabower from anglport@con2.com Thu Jul 9 11:19:46 1998 Subject: Re: dry nodes? Steve,Go with the sloth. It's close enough.Art ps: There was quite a string awhile back involving "Epiphanes foambrushes.I'm sure if you search a couple of months' Archives for that word you'll beable to round up all the opinions. If you don't know how just bounce oneback at me. As for the nodes; they're where all the fibers go to getscrambled. That's where all the node/nodeless arguments come from. Thestring ain't straight when it enters/exits those points so the "integrity"of the cane is supposedly weakened. At 10:26 AM 7/9/98 -0500, you wrote:Hi All, O.K., edify me - are the nodes on the rod sections supposed to appear'dry'?Is that due to being similar to a knot in a piece of wood? Cause forconcern or just a fact of bamboo life Also, (at the risk of being branded a heretic) does anyone use a foambrushto apply spar varnish? I've used foam with good results on woodworkingprojects and just thought it would carry over. Or is it like fly tying,where I need the urine stained left rear foot of the Lesser Mongolian 2toedSloth TIA, Steve Steve Stillabower from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Jul 9 13:52:18 1998 Subject: Re: dry nodes? In a message dated 7/9/98 9:26:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,anglport@con2.comwrites: Steve,Go with the sloth. It's close enough.Art ps: There was quite a string awhile back involving "Epiphanes foambrushes. It's John Cooper's favorite method. Darryl from fiveside@net-gate.com Thu Jul 9 14:35:34 1998 (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA04106 for ;Thu, 9 Jul 1998 15:33:45 Subject: Delam To the List,Another trick I've found useful to jam adhesive into a narrow opening isto use the tip of a duck's primary wing quill feather. Bill from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Jul 9 16:09:30 1998 Subject: Re: RE: Payne Banty? In a message dated 7/8/98 9:23:11 PM, you wrote: Yes - Sorry about that from eestlow@srminc.com Thu Jul 9 16:18:42 1998 1998)) id 8625663C.00745B02; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 16:10:54 -0500 Subject: RE: Payne Banty? With regard to the posted dimensions, were they form settings or actualflat to flat dimensions. I inadvertently erased the original post, so Idon't know if that was stated. If I remember correctly, the butt dimensionwas 0.10#. Seemed small to me. Thanks,Ed TSmithwick@aol.com on 07/09/98 04:08:50 PM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: RE: Payne Banty? In a message dated 7/8/98 9:23:11 PM, you wrote: Yes - Sorry about that from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Jul 9 16:26:46 1998 Subject: Re: RE: Payne Banty? In a message dated 7/9/98 9:20:51 PM, you wrote: They were flat to flat dimensions. No line weight was given, but I wouldguessit would be fairly light. from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Jul 9 17:39:19 1998 Subject: Got any old, sticky, decrepit silk flylines? I'm writing an article for Bamboo Flyrod Magazine (can weshorten it to BFM?) on how to restore old silk flylines. Theproblem is I live out here in the West Coast and we don'thave a lot of the old traditional fishing heritage as in some other parts of the world. There just isn't a lot of the old sticky useless silk flylines around here, and that's what I need toexperiment with. If anybody has any can you email me privatelyat salarfly@aol.com? Thanks in advance! Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Jul 9 17:40:10 1998 Subject: Calendar of Events - Bamboo Flyrod Magazine The editor of Bamboo Flyrod Magazine wanted me to pass this onto the list. If anyone is setting up a booth at any show, anywhere, as long as you are selling bamboo flyrods, email the dates to Mark Metcalf at bam- fly@pacbell.net and it will get a listing in the Calendar of Events in his magazine. It's an easy way to get some free advertising for yourevent. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Jul 9 21:24:45 1998 Subject: Re: dry nodes? Steve,If the foam brush works for you use it, I sometimes spray my rods and Isometimes apply my finish by using my fingers and rubbing it out thatway.Heck I am even thinking on trying one of these waterbased urethanes toseewhat kind of results I get from that. Bret from saweiss@flash.net Thu Jul 9 21:35:45 1998 Subject: Re: dry nodes? -----Original Message----- Subject: dry nodes? Hi All, O.K., edify me - are the nodes on the rod sections supposed to appear'dry'?Is that due to being similar to a knot in a piece of wood? Cause forconcern or just a fact of bamboo life Also, (at the risk of being branded a heretic) does anyone use a foambrushto apply spar varnish? I've used foam with good results on woodworkingprojects and just thought it would carry over. Or is it like fly tying,where I need the urine stained left rear foot of the Lesser Mongolian 2toedSloth TIA, Steve Steve Stillabower I think that J. Cooper uses a foam brush and warmed spar.Steve Weiss from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Jul 9 22:11:35 1998 Subject: Re: dry nodes? In a message dated 7/9/98 7:28:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time,Grhghlndr@aol.comwrites: Heck I am even thinking on trying one of these waterbased urethanes toseewhat kind of results I get from that. Tried it. Works okay. I figured I might as well try it since the air pollutionfolks are legislating all the solvent based finishes away - in Southern California anyway. Darryl Hayashida from ragnarig@integrityol.com Fri Jul 10 01:03:00 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A06A63A025E; Thu, 09 Jul 1998 23:10:50 PDT Subject: Re: Two-handed taper (PS -I'm aware of the Payne taper in Jack Howell's book.) Dear Charlie I'm unaware of any Payne taper longer than the 10' 6" posted to the list awhile back (which, by the way, is extreme fun with a shortish two- handgrip)but if you've got one, I'd sure love to see it! Davy from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Jul 10 01:09:34 1998 Fri, 10 Jul 1998 14:09:23 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: dry nodes? back at me. As for the nodes; they're where all the fibers go to getscrambled. That's where all the node/nodeless arguments come from. Thestring ain't straight when it enters/exits those points so the "integrity"of the cane is supposedly weakened. Personaly I think the "to node or not to node" question has sort of lost something along the way. The point isn't strength as such as everyone knows rods wont just break at a node but one of the same uninterupted "strength" along each strip from handle to ferrule/ferrule totip.Does it matter? Who knows, but the rods look nice and cast well and the planing is smoother without having nodes to contend with *and* you don't need to make an oven, providing you have a kitchen. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from ragnarig@integrityol.com Fri Jul 10 01:20:20 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A481B08017C; Thu, 09 Jul 1998 23:28:17 PDT Subject: Re: Two-handed taper Charlie,I have a 12' Montague 3 piece , 2 tip two handed rod if you want this taperlet me know.bret Dear Bret I would love to have a look at this taper, as well as any other detailsconcerning its construction, provenance and, especially, your comments onits performance. Thanks,Davy from ragnarig@integrityol.com Fri Jul 10 01:38:11 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A8B14D20166; Thu, 09 Jul 1998 23:46:09 PDT Subject: Re: Delam To the List,Another trick I've found useful to jam adhesive into a narrow opening isto use the tip of a duck's primary wing quill feather. Bill Bill Great for varnish tricks, too, and the neat part is that the ones you can'tmake good wings out of are perfect for painting! Davy from ragnarig@integrityol.com Fri Jul 10 02:08:35 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id AFD18F0017A; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 00:16:33 PDT Subject: weird trippy thing, man boundary="----=_NextPart_000_011B_01BDAB98.99ABE540" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_011B_01BDAB98.99ABE540 I'll try to make this short. Found an old anonymous 9-footer in a junk shop, nicely flamed, slightly =thinner mid- but the butt was butchered. Figure it'd make a nice light =banty. Looked like a recent refinish- amateur but good. Took it down =to the shop and threw it in the barrel. Arm has a bad spell last week, looking for something to do, I pull this =out and strip the finish. Flaming disappears from the mid. Clean my =glasses, take it outside. Not flamed anymore. Squint real hard, still =unflamed. Now I strip the tip. Stays flamed, why wouldn't it? Mid still =unflamed. Heard trouts calling. Jumped in the truck, just got back. =Mid still blatantly unflamed. Comments? Davy ------=_NextPart_000_011B_01BDAB98.99ABE540 I'll try to make this =short. Found an old anonymous 9-footerin a = barrel. Arm has a bad spell last week, = unflamed. Comments? Davy ------=_NextPart_000_011B_01BDAB98.99ABE540-- from cmj@post11.tele.dk Fri Jul 10 05:55:29 1998 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA24998 Subject: Sv: weird trippy thing, man boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0041_01BDAC02.4D200CA0" part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01BDAC02.4D200CA0 David wrote David wrote = <I pull this out and strip = unflamed. disguising blemishes/differences in the bamboo, if You have to make = tip/bottom. Visit Your friendly local paintstore and get small blops = brown in different shades (the little plasticcontainers for films = which should pose no problems, as the shop is accustomed to mix = experiment with thickness of layers and colours.= about it. Do it myself, if everything else fails. regards Carsten ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01BDAC02.4D200CA0-- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Jul 10 07:53:02 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Two-handed taper Davy,I will mike the taper this weekend. I have not tried to use this rod yet butwill soon on St. Mary's in Sault St. Mary canada soon for salmon. I willdescribe rod at length when I get you taper.Brethave to go to work right now from rmoon@ida.net Fri Jul 10 09:17:12 1998 forged)) Subject: Re: weird trippy thing, man Davy There is a perfectly rational explanation of this phenomenon .Please, just don't ask me to tell you what it is.Ralph from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Fri Jul 10 09:35:59 1998 Subject: Payne 100 Payne 100.. 7'6", 2piece, 4wt. measurements from an unvarnished rod.0" - .0645" - .07010" - .08615" - .10120" - .11625" - .13130" - .14335" - .15540" - .16745" - .18050" - .19155" - .20360" - .21865" - .23170" - .24475" - .26880" - .30085" - .30090" - .300 no guide spacing On another note.. John C ..the 3piece, 8', 5Wt would be a model 201 (thePayne catalog lists the 200 as a light Dry fly 4wt.). Regards, Dennis from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us Fri Jul 10 09:43:41 1998 (envelope- from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us) (envelope- from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us) 1.21);10 Jul 98 10:48:41 EST EST Subject: My Monthly Question Hi, I've been reading all the e-mails about tapers. It seems that adifference of a few thousand-ths of an inch make so much of adifference between a magnificent casting tool and just another rod. What really strikes me as funny is the rather uninspiring methods ofguide placement. Some folks say a guide for every foot of rod, andthen there's the calculation based upon length / number of guides-1. Where you decide how many guides you want to use. I am certainly not a rod builder, but having refinished a couplecrummy Montagues, a South Bend, and now working on my first Bantyout of a Montague Clear Lake, I am really wondering why buildersdon't have guide placements to match the tapers for a given rod. Enjoying the list and my newfound hobby, thank you!Joe Mulvey from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Jul 10 10:21:51 1998 Subject: Re: My Monthly Question In a message dated 7/10/98 7:46:06 AM Pacific Daylight Time,jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us writes: I am certainly not a rod builder, but having refinished a couplecrummy Montagues, a South Bend, and now working on my first Bantyout of a Montague Clear Lake, I am really wondering why buildersdon't have guide placements to match the tapers for a given rod. Because guide placement isn't that critical.I posted the same question about a monthago, asked in a different way, and nobody had an answer. So, I tried out severalconfigurations. The only time I could tellthere was a difference was when I went down to 4 snake guides on a 7 foot blank.5, 6, 7 or 8 snake guides had no effect on thecasting. Evenly spaced, shorter spacing asyou get to the tip, no difference. My advice on guide spacing - Do what looksgood. If it doesn't look funny, such as 4 guideson a 7 foot rod, it will cast just as well as anyother spacing scheme. Darryl Hayashida from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Fri Jul 10 12:53:12 1998 (MET DST) Subject: Re: Calendar of Events - Bamboo Flyrod Magazine SalarFly@aol.com wrote: The editor of Bamboo Flyrod Magazine wanted me to pass this onto the list. If anyone is setting up a booth at any show, anywhere, as long asyou are selling bamboo flyrods, email the dates to Mark Metcalf atbam- fly@pacbell.net and it will get a listing in the Calendar of Eventsin his magazine. It's an easy way to get some free advertising for yourevent. i will have a small 2 day show of bamboo rodbuilding at the meeting ofthe european bamboo society, here in Switzerland, at MUNTELIER, on thelake "Murten", at 22 & 23. august, in the afternoons. Thanks Stefan-- S. Grau`s atelier edelweissGespliesste Angelruten/Split Cane RodsSwiss Flyfishing Schoolhttp://www.BuchLang.com/~grau Adresse:Brunnadernstr. 11 CH - 3006 BerneTel: ++41 (0) 31 352 42 88 ab 19.00/ from 7.PME-Mail: gespliesst@bluewin.ch from swilson1@WHC.NET Fri Jul 10 13:44:24 1998 ; Subject: PHY Driggs The PHY Driggs seems to be a favorite among many. I'm sure the taperhas been posted previously, but I can't find it. Could someone lead mein the right direction? Thanks, Scott from LambersonW@missouri.edu Fri Jul 10 14:13:28 1998 (5.5.1960.3) Subject: RE: My Monthly Question One "optimum" spacing of guides is that which results in the maximumdistance from the flexed blank to the line being equal in each intervalbetween guides. That can be achieved by trial and error. Firstdetermine the number of guides that are desired and a comfortablelocation of the stripping guide.. Also determine the location of anyother guides that are "fixed". Some builders for example place a guideat the ferrule. Temporarily fasten the guides to the blank is such a waythat allows them to be easily moved, such as by using surgical tubing.String the rod and flex it to a moderate extent. Now observe themaximum distance from the taut line to the blank in any interval betweenguides. Adjust the position of the guides to make them further apart ifthe lines is closer than average to the blank, or closer together if theline is further from the blank than average. This procedure has, for me, has usually resulted in a reasonable spacingthat is aesthetically pleasing. In theory, it should provide equalpressure on the guides and thus I presume equal stress on the rod overits length. Also, the use of some method that has some demonstrablelogic behind it has had appeal for me. Bill LambersonColumbia, Missouri -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, July 10, 1998 10:48 AM Subject: My Monthly Question Hi, I've been reading all the e-mails about tapers. Itseems that adifference of a few thousand-ths of an inch make so muchof adifference between a magnificent casting tool and justanother rod. What really strikes me as funny is the ratheruninspiring methods ofguide placement. Some folks say a guide for every footof rod, andthen there's the calculation based upon length / numberof guides-1. Where you decide how many guides you want to use. I am certainly not a rod builder, but having refinisheda couplecrummy Montagues, a South Bend, and now working on myfirst Bantyout of a Montague Clear Lake, I am really wondering whybuildersdon't have guide placements to match the tapers for agiven rod. Enjoying the list and my newfound hobby, thank you!Joe Mulvey from hall@Summa4.COM Fri Jul 10 14:23:36 1998 custsrv1.vitts.com(Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) 1998 19:23:34 UT with ESMTP id PAA15548 for ; Fri, 10 Jul summa4.summa4.com(8.8.5/8.7.1) with SMTP id PAA29837 for ;Fri, 10 Jul 1998 15:23:17 Subject: Re: PHY Driggs Scott,This is what I have handy. It comes from the achives around march 10ofthis year. You might want to look more...Thanks to Wayne and Tony. Dan Scott Wilson wrote: The PHY Driggs seems to be a favorite among many. I'm sure the taperhas been posted previously, but I can't find it. Could someone lead mein the right direction? Thanks, Scott from March 10 th achive: Gee there are a lot of people on this list, it took 10 mins to wade through all the Driggs taper requests. Not withstanding all the above, if you make the rod on this taper,you'll get a good rod.A bit of advise for anybody not accostomed to paras. You may be puzzled with this rod when you first try it, if you do give it a cast then put it away and think about it for a while before trying it again. Don't try overpowering it and it'll come to you. I hope I'm not out of line in posting this below but I guess it's on the archives and in the public domain so here is the posting by Wayne from sometime last year. /**********************************************************************/ As I said earlier the Driggs or Driggs River Special was a 7' 2" rod-named for a UP stream - I have cast the original when it was in theshop. AllYoungs were made on 6" center spacings starting at the butt so theoriginallisting is as follows: 0" - 203"6" - 190"12" - 160"18" - 150"24" - 138"30" - 115"36" - 095"42" - .070" 0" - 265"6" - 265"12" - 265"18" - 260"24" - 245"30" - 225"36" - 215"42" - 205" End of Wayne's post/********************************************************/ Tony again, from what I've ben told rods based on PHY have had a bad trot due to people making them on 5' centres and not the 6" as this taper is. Boy, I can almost hear all those allen keys in shaking hands excitedly adjusting planing forms now:-) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ end of archive. from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Jul 10 15:52:07 1998 head.globalcom.net(8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id QAA11061; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 16:52:03 -0400 Subject: Re: PHY Driggs In case anyone interested - There was an original for sale at RustyGates Fly Shopwhen we were at Grayling for about $2500. It also had the separated corkhandle on thisone - got to be fished to be appreciated. Chris On Fri, 10 Jul 1998 15:23:15 -0400, Dan Hall wrote: Scott,This is what I have handy. It comes from the achives around march10 ofthis year. You might want to look more...Thanks to Wayne and Tony. Dan Scott Wilson wrote: The PHY Driggs seems to be a favorite among many. I'm sure the taperhas been posted previously, but I can't find it. Could someone lead mein the right direction? Thanks, Scott from March 10 th achive: Gee there are a lot of people on this list, it took 10 mins to wade through all the Driggs taper requests. Not withstanding all the above, if you make the rod on this taper,you'll get a good rod.A bit of advise for anybody not accostomed to paras. You may be puzzled with this rod when you first try it, if you do give it a cast then put it away and think about it for a while before trying it again. Don't try overpowering it and it'll come to you. I hope I'm not out of line in posting this below but I guess it's on the archives and in the public domain so here is the posting by Wayne from sometime last year. /**********************************************************************/ As I said earlier the Driggs or Driggs River Special was a 7' 2" rod-named for a UP stream - I have cast the original when it was in theshop. AllYoungs were made on 6" center spacings starting at the butt so theoriginallisting is as follows: 0" - 203"6" - 190"12" - 160"18" - 150"24" - 138"30" - 115"36" - 095"42" - .070" 0" - 265"6" - 265"12" - 265"18" - 260"24" - 245"30" - 225"36" - 215"42" - 205" End of Wayne's post/********************************************************/ Tony again, from what I've ben told rods based on PHY have had a bad trot due to people making them on 5' centres and not the 6" as this taper is. Boy, I can almost hear all those allen keys in shaking hands excitedly adjusting planing forms now:-) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ end of archive. from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Jul 10 16:22:29 1998 head.globalcom.net(8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id RAA16687; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 17:22:22 -0400 Subject: Catskill Rodmakers Gathering To All Robert Reid asked me to pass this on - there will be flyers in thePlaning Form and Iwill scan theposter Kim has made up and post to the Rodmakers homepage as soon asthey send it to me. But here are the details: Sat and Sun September 12/13 at the Catskill Fly Fishing Center inRoscoe NY. Startsat 0900 in the morning. Cost this year to cover Lunch and coffee and roomis $35. As always, there will be an interesting program and lots of goodrods. place - makereservationsnow - I just did - phone is 607-498-5220 - remember this is about 100yards from the famousjunctionpool - so fishing is allowed at these things. We have always have had agood time here. Chris from Nodewrrior@aol.com Fri Jul 10 16:52:31 1998 Subject: Re: PHY Driggs Scott et. al,Be sure to convert the numbers from 6" to 5" stations.(!) Stetzer's HexrodinRodmakers will do it. I LOVE my copy! Rob from Leessinker@aol.com Fri Jul 10 17:38:28 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine/ May - June Saw a bunch at the loal Orvis shop, said to myself, "Self, if you buy it now it will be in the mailbox when you get home sopass".Well needless to say that it's been two days now and still no magazine.The editor told me it was the "Issue from hell" .Don't give up the faith. With one eye on the mailbox and an ear to the ground. Dewayne from Leessinker@aol.com Fri Jul 10 18:20:37 1998 Subject: Re: My Monthly Question Determining guide spacing and placement is always time consuming andnot afavorite chore especially with the interuption of ferrules.Found the "guide " program in Wayne's "Hexrod " program , answer a fewquestions a bada bing bada boom you got it in print. What a time saver,Thanks Wayne.BTW I believe "hexrod " is available online :http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htmalso comes with Wayne's book Dewayne from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Fri Jul 10 18:32:30 1998 Subject: Two-handed taper Davy-I've got a couple of old Payne catalogs. The 1951 issue lists 8 models of Two-Handed Salmon Rods, from a model 221 at 10 1/2 feet to a model 228at14 feet (19 1/2 - 20 1/4 oz.) . I don't have any of the tapers but that 14footer is the longest Payne I can find. Just the thing if you're after MobyDick Dennis from channer@hubwest.com Fri Jul 10 18:40:27 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A6BF35B00FC; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 17:41:51 MDT Subject: Re: weird trippy thing, man At 12:20 AM 7/10/98 -0700, you wrote:I'll try to make this short. Found an old anonymous 9-footer in a junk shop, nicely flamed, slightlythinner mid- but the butt was butchered. Figure it'd make a nice lightbanty. Looked like a recent refinish- amateur but good. Took it down tothe shop and threw it in the barrel. Arm has a bad spell last week, looking for something to do, I pull thisout and strip the finish. Flaming disappears from the mid. Clean myglasses, take it outside. Not flamed anymore. Squint real hard, stillunflamed. Now I strip the tip. Stays flamed, why wouldn't it? Mid still unflamed.Heard trouts calling. Jumped in the truck, just got back. Mid stillblatantly unflamed. Comments? Davy Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\ATTACH\weirdtri.htm" Davy;Like, far out, must have a stained mid section,bro. Stain it again so itmatches up and cool the lingo, you'll date yourself. Outasite in Colorado John Channer from KDLoup@aol.com Fri Jul 10 21:14:39 1998 Subject: Re: Frazer Book List,If anyone is interested, Don Conner Fine Books (916)443-2223 has acopyof Amateur Rodmaking for $27.50. The reference # is 10335. Kurt Loup from anglport@con2.com Sat Jul 11 08:45:33 1998 Subject: Re: My Monthly Question Darryl,I don't think the placement or number of guides is as critical for thecasting as it is for the fish-fighting. You don't want the rod to be dividedinto too few secant-like sections when you've got a monster on the otherendof the line. It could conceivably be the "end-of-the-line" for the rod!That's where I've always assumed the placement was MOST critical. (Itdon'tmean a thing if you can't fight that "King" (salmon, that is!))IMHO,Art At 11:21 AM 7/10/98 EDT, you wrote:In a message dated 7/10/98 7:46:06 AM Pacific Daylight Time,jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us writes: I am certainly not a rod builder, but having refinished a couplecrummy Montagues, a South Bend, and now working on my first Bantyout of a Montague Clear Lake, I am really wondering why buildersdon't have guide placements to match the tapers for a given rod. Because guide placement isn't that critical.I posted the same question about a monthago, asked in a different way, and nobody had an answer. So, I tried out severalconfigurations. The only time I could tellthere was a difference was when I went down to 4 snake guides on a 7 foot blank.5, 6, 7 or 8 snake guides had no effect on thecasting. Evenly spaced, shorter spacing asyou get to the tip, no difference. My advice on guide spacing - Do what looksgood. If it doesn't look funny, such as 4 guideson a 7 foot rod, it will cast just as well as anyother spacing scheme. Darryl Hayashida from rmoon@ida.net Sat Jul 11 09:54:05 1998 Subject: Re: My Monthly Question I am of the opinion that guide placement is quite important. I Haveseen a rod tip broken, because the last snake guide before the tiptopwas spaced too far down the rod. When the guy attached his fly to thehook keeper and took up the slack it just snapped the tip. It is soeasy to attach the guides temporarily and check the contour of the linein the guides, that it seems almost criminal not to do it. I rarely usesomeone else's guide spacing except to establish a base line. Makingthe spacing look good is a damned poor way of doing the job.Ralph from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Jul 11 10:07:56 1998 Subject: Re: My Monthly Question Ralph I agree with you - guide spacing is very important. First becauseof the reason you give and the second is for performance. I hear all thetalk about stress curves on tapers and then for someone to stick guides onwilly nilly doesn'tmake sense. Guides have weight and that equates to moments - that willchangethe performance of a taper - if you do not consistantly mount the guidesthe samethen how can you play with the taper numbers? It has to be consistant fora rod. Chris On Sat, 11 Jul 1998 08:46:35 -0600, Ralph W Moon wrote: I am of the opinion that guide placement is quite important. I Haveseen a rod tip broken, because the last snake guide before the tiptopwas spaced too far down the rod. When the guy attached his fly to thehook keeper and took up the slack it just snapped the tip. It is soeasy to attach the guides temporarily and check the contour of the linein the guides, that it seems almost criminal not to do it. I rarely usesomeone else's guide spacing except to establish a base line. Makingthe spacing look good is a damned poor way of doing the job.Ralph Regards Chris from rcurry@top.monad.net Sat Jul 11 10:32:01 1998 Subject: Re: My Monthly Question Ralph W Moon wrote: I am of the opinion that guide placement is quite important. I Haveseen a rod tip broken, because the last snake guide before the tiptopwas spaced too far down the rod. When the guy attached his fly to thehook keeper and took up the slack it just snapped the tip. It is soeasy to attach the guides temporarily and check the contour of the linein the guides, that it seems almost criminal not to do it. I rarely usesomeone else's guide spacing except to establish a base line. Makingthe spacing look good is a damned poor way of doing the job.RalphRalph,I couldn't agree more regarding the ease of getting the correct guidespacing. What is the cost of a few feet of masking tape, as compared toa strained or broken rod?Your friend with the broken rod tip is typical of one easy way to losethe last 4-10" of rod. Most of the old rods have a few inches short offone tip (although the guide spacing was probably correct). I'll bet thatin many cases, the angler had reeled in his line, put his fly on thehookkeeper, started through the woods grasping the rod, butt first, andtripped. What would occur then is that his hand would tighten on thegrip, and the line, but, as the reel struck the ground his hand wasmoved forward, tightening the line and forcing the rod tip into a 270degree bend. Snap! I speak from experience.Best regards,Reed from rmoon@ida.net Sat Jul 11 11:18:27 1998 Subject: Re: My Monthly Question Chris and Art Thank you for the kind words. I am afraid I came on alittle strong, and I am sorry, but it is gratifying to know that othersfeel as I do.Ralph from jcole10@juno.com Sat Jul 11 12:32:00 1998 13:30:53 EDT Subject: Re: My Monthly Question Several months back RodCrafters had an article ( STATIC DEFLECTION FORGUIDE SPACING) by Michael Linge . This method works real well onspinningrods and I believe it will work just as well on cane. I have notcompleted my first rod yet so I havn't had a chance to use it. There isalso a drawing with the article and I would be happy to send a copy tosomeone who can post it John ColeP.S. Had a great time at the gathering. _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Jul 11 13:36:44 1998 Subject: Re: My Monthly Question In a message dated 7/11/98 8:00:10 AM Pacific Daylight Time,rmoon@ida.netwrites: When the guy attached his fly to thehook keeper and took up the slack it just snapped the tip. Good! We are finally getting some discussion on this subject. This is not a flame, it's a question I really want to know the answer to.How does the placement of snake guides prevent the breaking of thetip in this case? Seems to me the pressure on the tip from pulling straight back wouldn't be affected at all by the placement of the first snake guide. Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Jul 11 13:44:02 1998 Subject: Re: My Monthly Question In a message dated 7/11/98 8:12:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time,cbogart@shentel.net writes: I agree with you - guide spacing is very important. First becauseof the reason you give and the second is for performance. I hear all thetalk about stress curves on tapers and then for someone to stick guideson willy nilly doesn'tmake sense. Guides have weight and that equates to moments - that will changethe performance of a taper - if you do not consistantly mount the guidesthe samethen how can you play with the taper numbers? It has to be consistant rod. Guide weights in calculating stress curves, at least in the programs I have looked at, and in my own spreadsheet, are averaged over the length of the rod the same way varnish weight is. I believe this is a reasonable way todo it, since guide weights aren't that great (as compared to a ferrule forinstance), and usually are placed fairly close together. Darryl from fcfp@ix.netcom.com Sat Jul 11 14:06:59 1998 ix12.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) 3303@ix.netcom.com, Camp@ix.netcom.com, Hill@ix.netcom.com,PA@ix.netcom.com, 17011@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Frazer Book Check Interlok.com..... There are 12 different listings for this book -- ranging from a firstaddition @$70 to one for $15. Great source for used out of print books..... KDLoup@aol.com wrote: List,If anyone is interested, Don Conner Fine Books (916)443-2223 has acopyof Amateur Rodmaking for $27.50. The reference # is 10335. Kurt Loup from anglport@con2.com Sat Jul 11 14:56:16 1998 Subject: Re: Frazer Book Fred,I just went to Interlok.com and can't find a thing about books-new or used.Any suggestions? They'll put mine on a CD, but.....Waddamydoinrong?Art At 03:04 PM 7/11/98 -0400, you wrote:Check Interlok.com..... There are 12 different listings for this book -- ranging from a firstaddition @$70 to one for $15. Great source for used out of print books..... KDLoup@aol.com wrote: List,If anyone is interested, Don Conner Fine Books (916)443-2223 has acopyof Amateur Rodmaking for $27.50. The reference # is 10335. Kurt Loup from fcfp@ix.netcom.com Sat Jul 11 18:48:01 1998 ix16.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) 3303@ix.netcom.com, Camp@ix.netcom.com, Hill@ix.netcom.com,PA@ix.netcom.com, 17011@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Frazer Book ART & all: My ERROR: It's interloc.com from there you should have a 'home page' withinstructions as tohow to search by title, author, subject, etc or any combination there-of. I do have the info to go directly to a search page but this should be easierandeliminate other confusion. Sorry for the inconvenience....... FRED Art Port wrote: Fred,I just went to Interlok.com and can't find a thing about books-new orused.Any suggestions? They'll put mine on a CD, but.....Waddamydoinrong?Art At 03:04 PM 7/11/98 -0400, you wrote:Check Interlok.com..... There are 12 different listings for this book -- ranging from a firstaddition @$70 to one for $15. Great source for used out of print books..... KDLoup@aol.com wrote: List,If anyone is interested, Don Conner Fine Books (916)443-2223 hasa copyof Amateur Rodmaking for $27.50. The reference # is 10335. Kurt Loup from anglport@con2.com Sat Jul 11 19:18:31 1998 Subject: Re: Frazer Book Fred,I think it was Dinah Washington who sang: What a diff-rence a KAY makes.........24 little hours....Thanks,Art At 07:45 PM 7/11/98 -0400, you wrote:ART & all: My ERROR: It's interloc.com from there you should have a 'home page' withinstructions as tohow to search by title, author, subject, etc or any combination there-of. I do have the info to go directly to a search page but this should beeasier andeliminate other confusion. Sorry for the inconvenience....... FRED Art Port wrote: Fred,I just went to Interlok.com and can't find a thing about books-new orused.Any suggestions? They'll put mine on a CD, but.....Waddamydoinrong?Art At 03:04 PM 7/11/98 -0400, you wrote:Check Interlok.com..... There are 12 different listings for this book -- ranging from a firstaddition @$70 to one for $15. Great source for used out of print books..... KDLoup@aol.com wrote: List,If anyone is interested, Don Conner Fine Books (916)443-2223 hasa copyof Amateur Rodmaking for $27.50. The reference # is 10335. Kurt Loup from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sat Jul 11 21:53:42 1998 Subject: Re: How to break a tip I heard from an older tounament caster that alot of old tips were brokendueto the popularity of automatic reels...Ugh! Rob from channer@hubwest.com Sat Jul 11 23:36:34 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id ADA525BB014E; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:37:57 MDT Subject: 7'6 ' 4wt. Hi guys;I am looking for a fast action taper for someone buying their first canerod, anyone have any favorites they care to recommend? My personalfavorite4wt. is the Paul Young Midge i built, but I have heard some negativeremarks about stretching this to an 8' rod, so I suppose going to 7'6"wouldn't be much better. The 7'6' 4wt. variation of the Sir D that Wayneposted looks to me like it should be such a rod, but I am still a touchuncertain as to how the numbers translate into action. I have beenfollowing the list for some time and have most, if not all of the booksout, so anyone that cares to respond doesn't have to go to the trouble ofposting the taper, unless it is not otherwise available, just name it and Iprobably have it on file. Thanks to all.John Channer from jfoster@gte.net Sun Jul 12 00:17:47 1998 Subject: [Fwd: (no subject)] 73075929FBC5E2A77F057A55" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 73075929FBC5E2A77F057A55 mac-creator="4D4F5353" hi mike --------------73075929FBC5E2A77F057A55 (209.180.33.80) Subject: (no subject) have been trying to unsubswcribe from the news group to switch e mail providers tried several times but it won't shut off thanks for your help, a great site and service terry paulsen --------------73075929FBC5E2A77F057A55-- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Jul 12 05:08:41 1998 Sun, 12 Jul 1998 18:08:33 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: 7'6 ' 4wt. On Sat, 11 Jul 1998, john channer wrote: Hi guys;I am looking for a fast action taper for someone buying their first canerod, anyone have any favorites they care to recommend? My personalfavorite4wt. is the Paul Young Midge i built, but I have heard some negativeremarks about stretching this to an 8' rod, so I suppose going to 7'6"wouldn't be much better. The 7'6' 4wt. variation of the Sir D that Wayneposted looks to me like it should be such a rod, but I am still a touchuncertain as to how the numbers translate into action. I have beenfollowing the list for some time and have most, if not all of the booksout, so anyone that cares to respond doesn't have to go to the trouble ofposting the taper, unless it is not otherwise available, just name it and Iprobably have it on file. Thanks to all.John Channer If you don't come up with another taper, I'd almost bet the modified Sir D of which you mention would be a good choice and worth at least a go. The original is every bit as good as Darryl writes. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sun Jul 12 08:29:28 1998 0500 Subject: Re: 7'6 ' 4wt. John,Let me second Tony's motion. I built the 7'6" variation of the Sir DSpecial as my second rod, and like it very much. Although my experienceislimited, it's the fastest bamboo rod I've cast. I like it as well as theLeonard50DF which converted me to bamboo, and that's saying a lot!Since I've noticed you're a taper hound like me, I'm almost sureyouhave Wayne's post extrapolating the tapers. But if for some reason youneed it,let me know and I'll send it along. Harry Boyd Tony Young wrote: On Sat, 11 Jul 1998, john channer wrote: Hi guys;I am looking for a fast action taper for someone buying their first canerod, anyone have any favorites they care to recommend? My personalfavorite4wt. is the Paul Young Midge i built, but I have heard some negativeremarks about stretching this to an 8' rod, so I suppose going to 7'6"wouldn't be much better. The 7'6' 4wt. variation of the Sir D that Wayneposted looks to me like it should be such a rod, but I am still a touchuncertain as to how the numbers translate into action. I have beenfollowing the list for some time and have most, if not all of the booksout, so anyone that cares to respond doesn't have to go to the trouble ofposting the taper, unless it is not otherwise available, just name it andIprobably have it on file. Thanks to all.John Channer If you don't come up with another taper, I'd almost bet the modifiedSir D of which you mention would be a good choice and worth at least ago.The original is every bit as good as Darryl writes. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from rcurry@top.monad.net Sun Jul 12 08:30:58 1998 Subject: Re: 7'6 ' 4wt. john channer wrote: Hi guys;I am looking for a fast action taper for someone buying their first canerod, anyone have any favorites they care to recommend? John,Some questions:1/ Do they already know how to cast, or is this their first flyrod?2/ What type of fishing will they be doing?3/ Do they want to enjoy a relaxed day on stream or are they"competitive"? If the answer to #1 is that they are new to FF, then an 8 foot or 8'6",5-6wt, medium action rod would, according to many casting authorities,provide them with the easiest entry into the sport. The answer to #2 may combine with #1. If, for example, they only doshort- line nymphing, use the taper Wayne designed for the GrayrockSporting Flies event. And, #3, temperament has a lot to do with the action that would bestsuit them, IMHO. Best regards,Reed from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sun Jul 12 08:44:02 1998 Sun, 12 Jul 1998 08:41:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Southern Rodmakers Gathering Rick,I've been to the Conclave four years straight. Usually I spend mostof the day fishing, and attend the Conclave in the evenings. Last yearthere were three booths selling bamboo rods. Leo Eck from N. Little Rockisalways there. John Bradford even had a few rods there last year at thebooth of another guy from Texas, I think his name was Ron Huff. There'salways a group of guys hanging around Leo's booth talking about buildingrods. I hoped to include these guys who will be there that weekendanyway.All they have to do is come one day earlier. I planned the meeting tocoincide with, but not conflict with the Conclave. If this goes as well asit looks, then next year we might well get a major spot at the Conclave.So far, we have 9 people committed to attending the RodmakersGathering, and a commitment from Harold and Eileen Demarest to attendand doa presentation on Bamboo itself. In the next few weeks I hope others willmake plans to attend. This could turn out to be a great group! The way itlooks now, quite a few of us will be arriving a day or two early in hopes ofcatching a few fish. I really hope that those who are planning to comewill contact me so that I can make plans a little more firm for programs,etc. (By the way, list, if you have program requests or ideas, please letme know.) I'll do a demo on how to sharpen blades using the GeorgeBarnes-Tom Smithwick stropping wheel. I'm hoping that a certain wellknownbuilder and former list member from Oklahoma will make a presentationontapers. And I have a few other ideas as well. You know the sayingabout the best laid plans of mice and men....Well, I don't think this is going to go astray! Harry Rick Crenshaw wrote: Harry, I don't know if this is good news or bad, but I got my copy of theSouthern Federation of Fly Fishers today. The Southern FFF is holdingit's Conclave in Mountain Home on October 2 thru 4. This won't make anydifference to me. I've never gone to such an event and hadn't reallyever wanted to. I try to use what time I have near any water actuallyfishing, but rod building has gotten a strong hold on me and I'm readyto get together with other makers in a very bad way. I could see where the Gathering could draw from this conclave oralternatively, I can see where it could prevent some local FF'ers fromattending the Gathering. What do you think? Rick Crenshaw P.S. Hope you don't mind my forwarding this to the list from sjstill@indy.net Sun Jul 12 09:47:36 1998 Subject: lathe? Hi All, Looking for a small lathe for ferrules, etc and came upon a watchmakerslathe. These *are* small (about 4" between centers). Would they beadequate for making ferrules (or other small parts)? Or, if someone knows of something "better"*, let me know. I looked at theSherline site that is linked to the Rodmakers page. Inexpensive enough (Ithink). Anyone use those? *within reason - I can't spend 1000.00 + on a lathe! Always curious, Steve Steve Stillabower from channer@hubwest.com Sun Jul 12 12:09:26 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AE1846400FA; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 11:10:48 MDT Subject: Re: 7'6 ' 4wt. At 09:31 AM 7/12/98 -0400, you wrote:john channer wrote: Hi guys;I am looking for a fast action taper for someone buying their first canerod, anyone have any favorites they care to recommend? John,Some questions:1/ Do they already know how to cast, or is this their first flyrod?2/ What type of fishing will they be doing?3/ Do they want to enjoy a relaxed day on stream or are they"competitive"? If the answer to #1 is that they are new to FF, then an 8 foot or 8'6",5-6wt, medium action rod would, according to many casting authorities,provide them with the easiest entry into the sport. The answer to #2 may combine with #1. If, for example, they only doshort- line nymphing, use the taper Wayne designed for the GrayrockSporting Flies event. And, #3, temperament has a lot to do with the action that would bestsuit them, IMHO. Best regards,Reed Reed;Thanks for your interest. The gentleman is an experienced fly fisher, butnot with bamboo. He is looking for a fast action dry-fly rod. I am not 100%sure about his temperament, but he seems like the type of guy that canrelax and enjoy the day on a river. When I talked to him, he had just spentthe day on the San Juan, parked over a huge pod of fish rising to midges,and the graphite rod he was fishing with would not present the flydelicately enough to suit him. I think I will probably use the variation ofthe Sir D, it seems to be highly thought of.Any other recommendations willstill be much appreciated, I like to compare peoples opinions on how a rodcasts with the taper, its the next best thing to actually building the rodI can think of. Thanks again.John Channer from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Jul 12 14:02:16 1998 Subject: Re: 7'6 ' 4wt. John -Here in Michigan as well as several fisheries a 7' 6" #4 is a universaltrout rod - on the wall in front of me is a photo of Robert 'Fridge' Fridgeheis holding a rather large (27" - 28" ish) cutthroat that he caught on theFrying Pan with his 7' 6" #4 so a rod of that size can handle some decentfish.The question then falls to the character of the rod - the orginal 7' (akaSir D Special) was designed for the Section 13 Creek area of the JordanRiverafter the influence of a unnamed gentleman who insisted that a 7' fastactionrod was the only proper rod to fish - the gentleman fish a Dickerson - Lylespent most of his adult life just a short distance from the stream.The taper mentioned in some of the RE's was a project to illustrate howacharacter curve could be stretched and still maintain the originalcharacter -in this particular case the graphiteness of a bamboo fly rod (this that anoxymoron???) any how the original Sir - D character curve was shortenedandlengthened with the resulting rod showing the same character. In case youmayhave missed the post it is below.Your position is reflective of that many of us have found ourselves in - aperson interested in a rod that you don't have a sample of for them to try -and trying to quess whether a particular rod taper would be pleasing totheclient - in most all cases I have gone for it - thinking that if it didn'tworkout I'd have a rod to fish and some added experience. I sit here typingbecause even if I wanted to fish I couldn't without borrowing a rod fromoneof the kids -I have some how gotten to a point that I don't have a rod of myown making to go fishing with - bummer. WayneOriginal Post The following is a work up of a series of tapers based on the 7' Sir Dfavorite. I have stretched the stress graph to develope a 7' 6" and shorteditto accomodate a 6' 3" after the curves were developed they were ranthroughHexrod to create dimensions for #2 - #3 - #4 weight rods in both 2 & 3piecerods. The stress curves are as follows: 65" action length tip - 452505 - 21195010 - 27175015 - 21887520 - 17287525 - 15915030 - 14725035 - 12692540 - 11040045 - 12130050 - 13490055 - 11727560 - 11687565 - 101050 80" action lengthtip - 452505 - 21195010 - 271750 15 - 21887520 - 17287525 - 16345030 - 15250035 - 14700040 - 14265045 - 12692550 - 11040055 - 12130060 - 13490065 - 11772570 - 11727575 - 11687580 - 101050 To maintain the full character the peaks and valleys were moved totheclosest 5" increment that is why several stress values are the same. 6' 3" #2 tip -.054 .05405 .056 .05610 .066 .06615 .083 .08320 .101 .10125 .114 .11430 .126 .12835 .143 .14740 .162 .16545 .170 .17250 .176 .17755 .197 .19860 .210 .21265 .233 .23670 .233 .23675 .233 .236 6' 3" #3 tip .061 .06105 .063 .06310 .074 .07415 .092 .09220 .112 .11225 .126 .12630 .139 .14135 .157 .16140 .178 .18245 .186 .18850 .192 .19355 .214 .21660 .228 .23065 .253 .25670 .253 .25675 .253 .256 6' 3" #4 tip .066 .06605 .068 .06810 .080 .08015 .099 .09920 .120 .12025 .135 .13530 .149 .15235 .168 .17240 .189 .19445 .198 .20050 .204 .20655 .227 .23060 .241 .24565 .267 .27270 .267 .27275 .267 .272 7' 6" #2 tip .054 .05405 .056 .05610 .066 .06615 .083 .08320 .101 .10125 .113 .11330 .125 .12535 .136 .13840 .147 .15045 .164 .16750 .185 .18755 .192 .19360 .196 .19765 .219 .21970 .232 .23375 .245 .24780 .271 .27385 .271 .27390 .271 .273 7' 6" #3 tip .061 .06105 .063 .06310 .074 .07415 .092 .09220 .112 .11225 .124 .12430 .138 .13835 .150 .15240 .162 .16545 .179 .18350 .202 .20455 .209 .21060 .214 .21565 .237 .23870 .251 .25375 .264 .26780 .291 .29585 .291 .29590 .291 .295 7' 6" #4tip .066 .06605 .068 .06810 .080 .08015 .099 .09920 .119 .11925 .133 .13330 .148 .14835 .160 .16240 .172 .17545 .190 .19550 .214 .21755 .221 .22360 .226 .22765 .251 .25270 .265 .26775 .279 .28180 .307 .31085 .307 .31090 .307 .310 The narrowness between the 2 and 3 piece dimensions reflect some finetuning I have done on the ferrule weights that I am using.What will perhaps shock a few - I have never fished the 7' #4. I madeone,I have lawn cast a couple and I was going to fish it. But as we weresuitingup at the Broomhead bridge on the n. branch of the Boardman I set the rodcaseon top of my Jimmy. The horror was when the rod case fell off the roof.Falling into pure sand the rod case split in half and took the rod with it.Never use highly burled walnut in a wooden rod case. Ron glued the case -itbroke in two again as I lifted it up. The rod was beyond repair - Ron justshrugged his shoulders - not responsible. from anglport@con2.com Sun Jul 12 14:32:36 1998 Subject: Re: 7'6 ' 4wt. Wayne,Thanks so much from a third party for posting the tapers. Now how do Itellwhich are the 2 pc and which the 3? I think I must be missing something.Art The narrowness between the 2 and 3 piece dimensions reflect somefinetuning I have done on the ferrule weights that I am using. from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Jul 12 14:50:45 1998 Subject: Re: 7'6 ' 4wt. Art -In the dimension listing the numbers on the right are the 2 piece and thenumbers on the left are the 3 piece - also missing are the ferrulebreakpoints- but those should be easy to figure out Wayne from channer@hubwest.com Sun Jul 12 15:58:47 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A3D91F0000B8; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 15:00:09 MDT Subject: Re: 7'6 ' 4wt. At 03:01 PM 7/12/98 EDT, you wrote:John -Here in Michigan as well as several fisheries a 7' 6" #4 is a universaltrout rod - on the wall in front of me is a photo of Robert 'Fridge'Fridge heis holding a rather large (27" - 28" ish) cutthroat that he caught on theFrying Pan with his 7' 6" #4 so a rod of that size can handle some decentfish.The question then falls to the character of the rod - the orginal 7' (akaSir D Special) was designed for the Section 13 Creek area of the JordanRiverafter the influence of a unnamed gentleman who insisted that a 7' fastactionrod was the only proper rod to fish - the gentleman fish a Dickerson -Lylespent most of his adult life just a short distance from the stream.The taper mentioned in some of the RE's was a project to illustrate howacharacter curve could be stretched and still maintain the originalcharacter -in this particular case the graphiteness of a bamboo fly rod (this that anoxymoron???) any how the original Sir - D character curve was shortenedandlengthened with the resulting rod showing the same character. In caseyou mayhave missed the post it is below.Your position is reflective of that many of us have found ourselves in -aperson interested in a rod that you don't have a sample of for them to try-and trying to quess whether a particular rod taper would be pleasing totheclient - in most all cases I have gone for it - thinking that if it didn'tworkout I'd have a rod to fish and some added experience. I sit here typingbecause even if I wanted to fish I couldn't without borrowing a rod fromoneof the kids -I have some how gotten to a point that I don't have a rod ofmyown making to go fishing with - bummer. Wayne;Just exactly the position I am in, I didn't put it better myself. Thanks much better at rodbuilding than numbers, I wasn't sure.This is about theonly length rod I haven't built yet. As I said, I have built a P.Y.Midgethat I like a lot, and the Payne 98 that was in T.P.F. last year(actually,I built 2 and kept one for myself)that is a good rod, but other than that,most of the rods I have built have been 8' and 8'6". For some reason thatis beyond me, no one seems to want short rods for small streams,regardlessof the fact that there are countless miles of streams in these mountainsthat just beg for a 6'-7' rod.How does it come to pass that aninternationally famous rodbuilder, author and teacherof jack-pinerodbuilding does not have a rod of his own make to fish with? Sounds tomelike you have been way too busy and need to take some time off to takecareof the important things in life.Good fishing to you( and get yourself a rodmade) John Channer from anglport@con2.com Sun Jul 12 16:49:55 1998 Subject: Re: 7'6 ' 4wt. Wayne,Sorry, but it must be AOL against the world or something. If you're talkingof the format of your post (I can check in your book if you want to refermethere), I got the message as one LOOOOOONG column of nos; in mine the nosonthe right are 5" stations and the nos on the left are in thousandths! Thanksin advance for any OTHER clue you can provide. BTW, if any body else isreading along with us, am I nuts or are you getting it in a "distorted"format too?Art At 03:50 PM 7/12/98 EDT, you wrote:Art -In the dimension listing the numbers on the right are the 2 piece andthenumbers on the left are the 3 piece - also missing are the ferrulebreakpoints- but those should be easy to figure out Wayne from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Jul 12 17:33:54 1998 Subject: Re: 7'6 ' 4wt. John - from Your server name I am guessing you are from the west - but abettergive away was the mention of the popularity of the longer rods used inyourarea. If you look back a bit at the different ideas played out in graphite roddesign - rod manufactures went to lengther rods to do a CYA of theinabilityof their rod designs to cast close in. It really isn't a secret that to get amodern graphite rod to cast short one needs to up line the rod by a size ortwo. By making longer rods the ideas was that instead of casting closethatone could simply dapple a close cast.See there are a couple of very important differences between rods madeofthe two materials. First - bamboo has a longer casting window - it has theability of casting leader only and progressing through a distance of 45 -50'- the other material will usually just start to cast decent at 25- 30' andthen will start to break up at 50' or so.The second BIG issue between the materials is the line speed - if youhave followed the post of the last bit you will see an occassionaldiscussionof how the modern lines that work well on todays graphite don't castworth as___ on a bamboo rod - the reason is that most modern lines have hadtheirsurfaces hardened more so that the forward loop doesn't totally collapsewhencast - bamboo on the other hand requires a softer outer finish on a linedueto its lower line speed. HERE IS THE BIG PROBLEM with graphite - becauseofthe higher line speed energy can not travel through the line leaderconnectionfast enough - and when a current line cast by a graphite rod comes to restonthe waters surface the bottlenecked energy at the line leader connectorlooksto dampen itself - it does this in the form of a plunge pool or wave fromedbythe connector - in actual fishing conditions this wave can have a verychilling effect on fish activity - especially trico fishing (does this allsound familiar) - in an attempt to move the plunge pool away from thefishmany folks using modern rods and line have opted to use leaders in the 12'-15' range - this is an effort to place the line leader plunge pool far enoughaway from the fish as not to spook the active fish.As far as the fishing issue - my personal rod of many years has madetherounds lately. Last summer and early this spring Larry Cory had it to fishandto use as an image for the Makers Rod raffle ticket - Larry artfullyremoved15 years of trout from the grip for the print. After that a young fellowfromthe Atlanta area has been fishing it in the petite streams down there.In all truthfullness I haven't really missed it. So far this year when Ifish I do it with our daughter , Lyndi, who will be a senior in high schoolthis next year. For years she has been my little fishing buddy - at first itwas to help keep her out of trouble with her casts and unhooking fish - butnow we both realize that that will change - ahead of her is college and ajoband fewer trips with dad. So we are making the best of those times wewillhave chasing Mr. Trout from mcreek@sirus.com Sun Jul 12 20:43:53 1998 Subject: Re: Gathering, etc. Wayne, Once again, thanks for all the work putting the Grayrock party on. Ienjoyed it even though I was trying to catch the flu. Did you find the $25 I stuck in your tool box for the ferrules? Brian from ragnarig@integrityol.com Sun Jul 12 20:57:05 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id AB431700188; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 19:04:51 PDT Subject: Re: My Monthly Question Guide weights in calculating stress curves, at least in the programs Ihavelooked at, and in my own spreadsheet, are averaged over the length of therod the same way varnish weight is. I believe this is a reasonable way todo it, since guide weights aren't that great (as compared to a ferrule forinstance), and usually are placed fairly close together. Darryl Dear DarrylI've always used some kind of program or chart or something to get anapproximate spacing, and then taped them on and threaded on a line andflexed the rod gradually to look for uneven bearing. Often it doesn't needany adjustment at all, but sometimes it does.I know of at least one model of bamboo production rod with a badlymisplacedguide (first one on the butt section) and every single original example I'veseen of this rod had broken that guide. In this case it was difficult toplace the guide so that it looked right and bore the line evenly, so I wentto a bigger snake and everything's jake.Davy from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Jul 12 21:08:57 1998 Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:08:36 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: lathe? On Sun, 12 Jul 1998, Steve Stillabower wrote: Hi All, Looking for a small lathe for ferrules, etc and came upon a watchmakerslathe. These *are* small (about 4" between centers). Would they beadequate for making ferrules (or other small parts)? Or, if someone knows of something "better"*, let me know. I looked attheSherline site that is linked to the Rodmakers page. Inexpensive enough (Ithink). Anyone use those? *within reason - I can't spend 1000.00 + on a lathe! Steve, you'll kick yourself if you get too small a lathe and 4" between centres would have to be worth at least a small kick once you start wanting to make reel. Also it'll be a bit small for the various other jobs like making handles and dressing ferrule stations.If you can't locate a 2nd hand lathe take a good look at the long bed Sherline. My first lathe (not long ago) was one of these and they are great little machines perfect for making ferrules and turning cork *but* they don't have the grunt when it comes to making reel seats.What I should have done though was get a bigger lathe one way or the other in the first place. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from richjez@enteract.com Sun Jul 12 22:54:40 1998 (147.126.253.18) Subject: Re: lathe? American Science and Surplus has a couple of small lathes. They are under$300 for the larger one. The bed is 135 cm. I think that is about 5.5". Alittle small for handles. I was in the store but they were boxed behind thecounter so I didn't get to play with one. They are real small. The box wasapproximately 20". There was no information on their power on the box. There is a link to their page from the Rodmakes page.Rich Jezioro +`-`At 09:49 AM 7/12/98 -0500, you wrote:Hi All, Looking for a small lathe for ferrules, etc and came upon a watchmakerslathe. These *are* small (about 4" between centers). Would they beadequate for making ferrules (or other small parts)? Or, if someone knows of something "better"*, let me know. I looked attheSherline site that is linked to the Rodmakers page. Inexpensive enough (Ithink). Anyone use those? *within reason - I can't spend 1000.00 + on a lathe! Always curious, Steve Steve Stillabower *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ /||/______/_||_________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > from channer@hubwest.com Sun Jul 12 23:32:32 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AE30176300EE; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 22:33:52 MDT Subject: Re: 7'6 ' 4wt. At 06:32 PM 7/12/98 EDT, you wrote:John - from Your server name I am guessing you are from the west - but abettergive away was the mention of the popularity of the longer rods used inyourarea. If you look back a bit at the different ideas played out in graphiteroddesign - rod manufactures went to lengther rods to do a CYA of theinabilityof their rod designs to cast close in. It really isn't a secret that to get amodern graphite rod to cast short one needs to up line the rod by a size ortwo. By making longer rods the ideas was that instead of casting closethatone could simply dapple a close cast.See there are a couple of very important differences between rodsmade ofthe two materials. First - bamboo has a longer casting window - it hastheability of casting leader only and progressing through a distance of 45 -50'- the other material will usually just start to cast decent at 25- 30' andthen will start to break up at 50' or so.The second BIG issue between the materials is the line speed - if youhave followed the post of the last bit you will see an occassionaldiscussionof how the modern lines that work well on todays graphite don't castworth as___ on a bamboo rod - the reason is that most modern lines have hadtheirsurfaces hardened more so that the forward loop doesn't totally collapsewhencast - bamboo on the other hand requires a softer outer finish on a linedueto its lower line speed. HERE IS THE BIG PROBLEM with graphite - becauseofthe higher line speed energy can not travel through the line leaderconnectionfast enough - and when a current line cast by a graphite rod comes torest onthe waters surface the bottlenecked energy at the line leader connectorlooksto dampen itself - it does this in the form of a plunge pool or wavefromed bythe connector - in actual fishing conditions this wave can have a verychilling effect on fish activity - especially trico fishing (does this allsound familiar) - in an attempt to move the plunge pool away from thefishmany folks using modern rods and line have opted to use leaders in the12' -15' range - this is an effort to place the line leader plunge pool farenoughaway from the fish as not to spook the active fish.As far as the fishing issue - my personal rod of many years has madetherounds lately. Last summer and early this spring Larry Cory had it to fishandto use as an image for the Makers Rod raffle ticket - Larry artfullyremoved15 years of trout from the grip for the print. After that a young fellowfromthe Atlanta area has been fishing it in the petite streams down there.In all truthfullness I haven't really missed it. So far this year when Ifish I do it with our daughter , Lyndi, who will be a senior in high schoolthis next year. For years she has been my little fishing buddy - at first itwas to help keep her out of trouble with her casts and unhooking fish -butnow we both realize that that will change - ahead of her is college and ajoband fewer trips with dad. So we are making the best of those times wewillhave chasing Mr. Trout Wayne;You're right, I'm in Durango,Co. and long rods do seem to be the thing outhere. I think the only shorter rod I have seem was a guy fishing the Animashere in town with a 7'Fenwick glass rod.I will occasionally fish the SanJuan with my 7'Payne taper, boy do I get some strange looks, especiallywhen I'm catching fish on dries and the nymphers are getting skunked.OntheJuan, there is not much trouble with spooking fish, half the time you tripover them trying to wade. The fish there figured out long ago that the bestfeeding lane is right below someones boots.What happens is that a lessthanperfect presentation tips them off to the fact that your fly is a fake. Ilike to fish a dry fly to a particular fish, that way I don't butt hookthem like the people fishing nymphs do constantly. There is somethingunsportsmanlike about snagging fish. I have only fished a graphite rod backin Illinois for smallmouth, but from what I have seen out here, mostpeoplefire the fly into the water when they fish a dry fly. My rods(or maybe itsmy sloppy casting) drop the fly and considerable slack on the water muchmore gently, altho I can fire a cast out if I want to.As an aside that has nothing to do with rodbuilding or fishing, treasureyour relationship with your daughter and never take it for granted. As theparent of a 17 yr old that wants nothing more than to move out on her own,I tell you to thank your lucky stars. John Channer from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Jul 13 03:32:05 1998 Mon, 13 Jul 1998 16:31:58 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: 7'6 ' 4wt. John, perfect presentation tips them off to the fact that your fly is a fake. Ilike to fish a dry fly to a particular fish, that way I don't butt hookthem like the people fishing nymphs do constantly. There is somethingunsportsmanlike about snagging fish. I have only fished a graphite rodback I don't mind being thought of as a sub species of the human race for stooping to admit I do nymph (when possible I do rise above my station and fish with a dry) but I do object to being lumped into the fish jaging class. There just aren't enough out here for that kind of thing ;-) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Mon Jul 13 06:24:32 1998 post.interalpha.net(8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id MAA08550 for ;Mon, 13 Jul 1998 12:26:52+0100 Subject: Re: Wayne's bambbo v graphite You wrote --- See there are a couple of very important differences between rodsmade ofthe two materials. First - bamboo has a longer casting window - it hastheability of casting leader only and progressing through a distance of 45 -50'- the other material will usually just start to cast decent at 25- 30' andthen will start to break up at 50' or so.The second BIG issue between the materials is the line speed - if youhave followed the post of the last bit you will see an occasionaldiscussionof how the modern lines that work well on today's graphite don't castworth as___ on a bamboo rod - the reason is that most modern lines have hadtheirsurfaces hardened more so that the forward loop doesn't totally collapsewhencast - bamboo on the other hand requires a softer outer finish on a linedueto its lower line speed. HERE IS THE BIG PROBLEM with graphite - becauseofthe higher line speed energy can not travel through the line leaderconnectionfast enough - and when a current line cast by a graphite rod comes torest onthe waters surface the bottlenecked energy at the line leader connectorlooksto dampen itself - it does this in the form of a plunge pool or waveformed bythe connector - in actual fishing conditions this wave can have a verychilling effect on fish activity - especially trico fishing (does this allsound familiar) - in an attempt to move the plunge pool away from thefishmany folks using modern rods and line have opted to use leaders in the12' -15' range - this is an effort to place the line leader plunge pool farenoughaway from the fish as not to spook the active fish. Lordy, where to start? I use bamboo because it fits perfectly with my romantic view of thewholefishing business. Fishing with carbon is like drinking 20 year old maltwhiskey from a plastic mug. Tried it (the carbon/graphite), and ran likehell when I realised what a soulless sham my fishing life had become.Similarly, I write with an ink 'fountain' pen, prefer leather-bound books,and trilby hats that have a little time-worn character. None of these areessential, they just add something that I need to make late twentiethcentury living a little more bearable. Now, you unfeeling cad, you're telling me that I have a technical edge too.Grief Wayne: perhaps I should be looking again at Walton's hazel rods. Honest Indian: are ALL those carbon wands quite incapable of deliveringthefly with delicacy? Is this freely-admitted by the non-bamboo magazines,orare they too concerned about their advertising revenue to 'come clean'? Frankly, I don't give a two-penny cuss whether carbon can or can't do thejob. I shall fish bamboo for love, and regardless of whether it's costing mean extra twenty yards of distance (which I don't need anyway). Even ifcarbon rods can drop a fly like high summer thistledown, they have littleabout them to encourage one to caress them on a snow-swept Decembernight.Nothing to lift the spirit. John Cooper (England) from jcole10@juno.com Mon Jul 13 07:16:11 1998 08:14:42 EDT Subject: Re: 7'6 ' 4wt. WayneI am embarrassed. I have forgotten the name of the young man fromAtlanta. I met him in Grayling, but names just don't stick. Would be sokind as to tell me his?ThanksJohn ColeOn Sun, 12 Jul 1998 18:32:50 EDT WayneCatt@aol.com writes:John - from Your server name I am guessing you are from the west - but a bettergive away was the mention of the popularity of the longer rods used in yourarea. If you look back a bit at the different ideas played out in graphite roddesign - rod manufactures went to lengther rods to do a CYA of the inabilityof their rod designs to cast close in. It really isn't a secret that to get amodern graphite rod to cast short one needs to up line the rod by a size ortwo. By making longer rods the ideas was that instead of casting close thatone could simply dapple a close cast.See there are a couple of very important differences between rods made ofthe two materials. First - bamboo has a longer casting window - it has theability of casting leader only and progressing through a distance of 45 - 50'- the other material will usually just start to cast decent at 25- 30' andthen will start to break up at 50' or so.The second BIG issue between the materials is the line speed - if youhave followed the post of the last bit you will see an occassional discussionof how the modern lines that work well on todays graphite don't cast worth as___ on a bamboo rod - the reason is that most modern lines have had theirsurfaces hardened more so that the forward loop doesn't totally collapse whencast - bamboo on the other hand requires a softer outer finish on a line dueto its lower line speed. HERE IS THE BIG PROBLEM with graphite - because ofthe higher line speed energy can not travel through the line leader connectionfast enough - and when a current line cast by a graphite rod comes to rest onthe waters surface the bottlenecked energy at the line leader connector looksto dampen itself - it does this in the form of a plunge pool or wave fromed bythe connector - in actual fishing conditions this wave can have a verychilling effect on fish activity - especially trico fishing (does this allsound familiar) - in an attempt to move the plunge pool away from the fishmany folks using modern rods and line have opted to use leaders in the 12' -15' range - this is an effort to place the line leader plunge pool far enoughaway from the fish as not to spook the active fish.As far as the fishing issue - my personal rod of many years has made therounds lately. Last summer and early this spring Larry Cory had it to fish andto use as an image for the Makers Rod raffle ticket - Larry artfully removed15 years of trout from the grip for the print. After that a young fellow fromthe Atlanta area has been fishing it in the petite streams down there.In all truthfullness I haven't really missed it. So far this year when Ifish I do it with our daughter , Lyndi, who will be a senior in high schoolthis next year. For years she has been my little fishing buddy - at first itwas to help keep her out of trouble with her casts and unhooking fish - butnow we both realize that that will change - ahead of her is college and a joband fewer trips with dad. So we are making the best of those times we willhave chasing Mr. Trout _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Mon Jul 13 08:47:54 1998 Subject: 7'6", 4wt. John-With all due respect to Wayne's tapers (they"re Great!!) here's analternative. A Payne 7'6" 5wt fast action rod. It's a model 101. Measured over varnish. I'll give you the raw data and youcan average and account for varnish as you see fit. Payne 101, 7'6", 2 piece , fast 5wt.Tip#11" .068, .0685, .0705" .095, .0965, .09610" .105, .1055, .106515" .1210, .1225, .121520" .1350, .1355, .13625" .150, .1495, .150530" .1585, .1605, .16035" .1735, .175, .175540' .1865, .186, .183543.5" .1915, .192, .1905 Tip#21" .0695, .0695, .0715" .0955, .0955, .097510" .106, .1065, .105515" .1205, .122, .122520" .137, .1365, .137525" .1495, .151, .14930" .1605, .1605, .161535" .1725, .174, .175540" .1855, .1855, .186543.5" .190, .1915, .1925 Butt47" .2165, .217, .21850" .2225, .223, .22055" .237, .237, .236560" .253, .253, .25265" .2735, .271, .27270" .2895, .2895, .291575" .314, .314, .310580" .3495, .349, .349 Guide spacing 4 15/16, 10 1/2, 16 1/2, 22 1/2, 35 11/16, 42 3/4, 50, 573/4, 65 5/8measurements @ 35 + 50 were @ guides so one measurement may be offfromtrying to slip the mic under a guide. the Payne Catalog lists this as a fast Dry Fly 5 wt. @ 3 1/4 - 3 1/2 oz. I cast Wayne's 7', 4Wt made by Rob Hoffhines last week and I've cast the"real" Payne 101. Both would be great for a "graphite" rod user...Both are fast, with the ability to cast short or long. Both rods load withjust a short line out and keep on working as you feed line out. We trieddifferent lines on the Cattanach taper and we all liked it best with aDouble taper 4. just another Taper,Dennis from dpeaston@wzrd.com Mon Jul 13 08:48:42 1998 mail.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) Subject: Re: My Monthly Question At 06:54 PM 7/12/98 -0700, David wrote: Guide weights in calculating stress curves, at least in the programs Ihavelooked at, and in my own spreadsheet, are averaged over the length oftherod the same way varnish weight is. I believe this is a reasonable way todo it, since guide weights aren't that great (as compared to a ferrule forinstance), and usually are placed fairly close together. Darryl ---------------------->cut Just a question, Isn't the largest effect of snake guides the stiffening effect they have onthe action? I was once told that one way to stiffen up the tip of a rod wasto add an extra guide and to wrap wider than usual. Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from anglport@con2.com Mon Jul 13 10:30:48 1998 Subject: How come? Subject: How come? All, http://www.flyanglersonline.com/ where-in a certain "J. Castwell" presents a pictorial review of thegoings-on at a Trout-Bums' Bar-B-Q ? I stumbled on the thing this morningand had quite a laugh. Wayne, there's another in your Jack-Pine Series atthe site. If this keeps up you should have enough pix to fund the wholebuilding of a small stream - the h--l with restoring, you could start fromscratch! It's under the Castwell's Corner "button" then scroll down to his"Archives" and go to "July, Week 1, Unnamed.." The article on the actualconstruction of the rod is a work not-to-be-missed on the way to theartcleI'm citing, by the way.Just can't believe no culprit posted the thing so all could enjoy!I don't think it's right to just let us STUMBLE on the thing!Hope you all think it's worth the trip,Artps: Who's the guilty party? from fcfp@ix.netcom.com Mon Jul 13 10:45:30 1998 ix13.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) 3303@ix.netcom.com, Camp@ix.netcom.com, Hill@ix.netcom.com,PA@ix.netcom.com, 17011@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: lathe? I just renewed an interest from my past -- plank-on-plank model shipbuilding-- and ordered a catalog from Model Expo in Florida. They have a sale ontoolsof various sorts, including some that would be useful to us. They alsoofferseveral small lathes that could be applicable. The Taig Precision MicroLatheis probably the best. Web site for info: www.modelexpoinc.com FRED Rich Jezioro wrote: American Science and Surplus has a couple of small lathes. They areunder$300 for the larger one. The bed is 135 cm. I think that is about 5.5". Alittle small for handles. I was in the store but they were boxed behindthecounter so I didn't get to play with one. They are real small. The box wasapproximately 20". There was no information on their power on the box.There is a link to their page from the Rodmakes page.Rich Jezioro +`-`At 09:49 AM 7/12/98 -0500, you wrote:Hi All, Looking for a small lathe for ferrules, etc and came upon awatchmakerslathe. These *are* small (about 4" between centers). Would they beadequate for making ferrules (or other small parts)? Or, if someone knows of something "better"*, let me know. I looked attheSherline site that is linked to the Rodmakers page. Inexpensive enough(Ithink). Anyone use those? *within reason - I can't spend 1000.00 + on a lathe! Always curious, Steve Steve Stillabower *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@ /||/______/_||_________________________________________||/\/ \ > > / \ > from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Jul 13 11:45:01 1998 0500 Subject: Re: How come? Thanks for this post. Definitely worth the trip, Art. Hard to believethose pictured wouldn't post the information themselves. Surely theywouldhave wanted these pictures to live forever in infamy. : -) I hope that intheSouthern Rodamkers Gathering we're planning we can come up with someequallyenlightening photos! Maybe one of those pictured could give us somedoublehaul lessons! forthe Southern Gathering (Surely someone can think of a more catchyname?). Itlooks like this thing is shaping up nicely. We have a commitment for apresentation from Charles H. Demarest and a plane blade sharpening demo;aswell as the possibility of demo's on the Morgan Hand Mill and making yourownferrules and reel seats. We have over a dozen committed to attending, andnewnames are coming in every day. I hope even more will make plans toattend.Harry Art Port wrote: Subject: How come? All, http://www.flyanglersonline.com/ where-in a certain "J. Castwell" presents a pictorial review of thegoings-on at a Trout-Bums' Bar-B-Q ? I stumbled on the thing thismorningand had quite a laugh. Wayne, there's another in your Jack-Pine Series atthe site. If this keeps up you should have enough pix to fund the wholebuilding of a small stream - the h--l with restoring, you could startfromscratch! It's under the Castwell's Corner "button" then scroll down to his"Archives" and go to "July, Week 1, Unnamed.." The article on the actualconstruction of the rod is a work not-to-be-missed on the way to theartcleI'm citing, by the way.Just can't believe no culprit posted the thing so all could enjoy!I don't think it's right to just let us STUMBLE on the thing!Hope you all think it's worth the trip,Artps: Who's the guilty party? from rmoon@ida.net Mon Jul 13 13:11:20 1998 Subject: Re: FFF Conclave Jim Sorry if it appears that I have forgotton you. Not so! The symposiumwill have a whole bunch of exhibits, personalities, demonstrations and Ireally think you will be able to get a lot out of it. Balsically youwill be able to talk with experts about some of the problems andconcerns you might. have. I am looking forward to meeting you. Ralph from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Jul 13 13:46:06 1998 Subject: Re: My Monthly Question In a message dated 7/13/98 6:55:10 AM Pacific Daylight Time,dpeaston@wzrd.comwrites: Isn't the largest effect of snake guides the stiffening effect they haveonthe action? I was once told that one way to stiffen up the tip of a rodwasto add an extra guide and to wrap wider than usual. Perhaps guides stiffen a rod a bit, but the greater effect is slowing down the action due to the increased weight. Thesecond rod I made, a Garrison taper, I didn't like too muchbecause it was too slow for my tastes. I tried to stiffen it withlong (about an inch) intermediate wraps. It ended up noticeablyslowing down the action. Darryl Hayashida from lcdr.hallowell@smtp.cnet.navy.mil Mon Jul 13 14:04:47 1998 (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA22597; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 14:05:43 -0500 R8.00.01) Subject: Texas Bound --simple boundary I'm moving, address due to an upcoming move. Address is: LCDR.HALLOWELL@SMTP.CNET.NAVY.MIL Ph# (847)688-2429/3466 (w) please let me know, will be living in Ingleside, which is right next to Corpus Christi. Also need to know if there are any small creeks or streams for fishing in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. Will be there in the next two weeks. Wife requested my presence at the Mary Kay convention. Well if I don't catch any fish I will get to look at some of the most beautiful woman in the world. (Wife was not keen on that one and think now I have full permission to sneak out with the flyrod.) Mark Hallowell --simple boundary Link to SMTP R8.00.01); Mon, 13 Jul 98 12:31:24 -0600 (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA19340; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 12:32:55 -0500 Subject: No requests found --simple boundary-- from sjstill@indy.net Mon Jul 13 17:41:16 1998 Subject: To wrap or not to wrap dat be the question (apologies to W.S.) I got the delamination taken care of to my satisfaction, but being anovercautious type, I wondered if I should put an overwrap of silk on it"just because". I figure use white silk so when it is varinshed it willmore or less disappear. Do this on the bare blank? Waste of time or good idea? I'm talking about 1.25" wrap on the buttsection, some of which will fall under the stripper wraps, and about 1" onthe mid section. All opinions considered Regards, Steve Steve Stillabower from jourdoktorn@pilot.stjarntv.se Mon Jul 13 17:51:29 1998 with ESMTP id AAA38B1 for ;Tue, 14 Jul 1998 00:48:26 +0200 Subject: Temporary remove from list I am on vacation for a couple of weeks. Please remove my name fromthe list temporary. I will return early August. Thanks.Best,Jan Nystrom from channer@hubwest.com Mon Jul 13 18:14:08 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A510256500C0; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 17:15:28 MDT Subject: Re: 7'6 ' 4wt. At 04:31 PM 7/13/98 +0800, you wrote:John, perfect presentation tips them off to the fact that your fly is a fake. Ilike to fish a dry fly to a particular fish, that way I don't butt hookthem like the people fishing nymphs do constantly. There is somethingunsportsmanlike about snagging fish. I have only fished a graphite rodback I don't mind being thought of as a sub species of the human race for stooping to admit I do nymph (when possible I do rise above my station and fish with a dry) but I do object to being lumped into the fish jaging class. There just aren't enough out here for that kind of thing ;-) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ Tony:I hope you didn't take that personally, no offense to anyone was meant. Ontailwaters such as the San Juan , there are so many fish so closetogether,that if you fish subsurface you can't help but foul hook one everyonce ina while.Hell, I even catch one by the dorsal fin every once in a whilefishing a dry fly. I don't look down my nose at anyone, or the way theyfish, different strokes for different folks. The only thing I object to isthe occassional slob I see trying to snag one on purpose. If the truth wereknown, I guess I'm just a trifle jeaous of those that can cast a nymph,weight and an indicator all day without spending most of their timeuntyingknots in their line. John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Mon Jul 13 18:14:23 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A51D256600C0; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 17:15:41 MDT Subject: Re: Wayne's bambbo v graphite At 12:22 PM 7/13/98 +0100, you wrote:You wrote --- See there are a couple of very important differences between rodsmade ofthe two materials. First - bamboo has a longer casting window - it hastheability of casting leader only and progressing through a distance of 45 -50'- the other material will usually just start to cast decent at 25- 30' andthen will start to break up at 50' or so.The second BIG issue between the materials is the line speed - if youhave followed the post of the last bit you will see an occasionaldiscussionof how the modern lines that work well on today's graphite don't castworth as___ on a bamboo rod - the reason is that most modern lines have hadtheirsurfaces hardened more so that the forward loop doesn't totally collapsewhencast - bamboo on the other hand requires a softer outer finish on a linedueto its lower line speed. HERE IS THE BIG PROBLEM with graphite -because ofthe higher line speed energy can not travel through the line leaderconnectionfast enough - and when a current line cast by a graphite rod comes torest onthe waters surface the bottlenecked energy at the line leader connectorlooksto dampen itself - it does this in the form of a plunge pool or waveformed bythe connector - in actual fishing conditions this wave can have a verychilling effect on fish activity - especially trico fishing (does this allsound familiar) - in an attempt to move the plunge pool away from thefishmany folks using modern rods and line have opted to use leaders in the12' -15' range - this is an effort to place the line leader plunge pool farenoughaway from the fish as not to spook the active fish. Lordy, where to start? I use bamboo because it fits perfectly with my romantic view of thewholefishing business. Fishing with carbon is like drinking 20 year old maltwhiskey from a plastic mug. Tried it (the carbon/graphite), and ran likehell when I realised what a soulless sham my fishing life had become.Similarly, I write with an ink 'fountain' pen, prefer leather-bound books,and trilby hats that have a little time-worn character. None of these areessential, they just add something that I need to make late twentiethcentury living a little more bearable. Now, you unfeeling cad, you're telling me that I have a technical edge too.Grief Wayne: perhaps I should be looking again at Walton's hazel rods. Honest Indian: are ALL those carbon wands quite incapable of deliveringthefly with delicacy? Is this freely-admitted by the non-bamboo magazines,orare they too concerned about their advertising revenue to 'come clean'? Frankly, I don't give a two-penny cuss whether carbon can or can't do thejob. I shall fish bamboo for love, and regardless of whether it's costingmean extra twenty yards of distance (which I don't need anyway). Even ifcarbon rods can drop a fly like high summer thistledown, they have littleabout them to encourage one to caress them on a snow-swept Decembernight.Nothing to lift the spirit. John Cooper (England) John;Well put, but you forgot vintage automobiles and Victorian era houses. Ofthe three, bamboo is the only one I can afford. John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Mon Jul 13 18:14:43 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A533256800C0; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 17:16:03 MDT Subject: Re: 7'6", 4wt. At 09:43 AM 7/13/98 -0400, you wrote:John-With all due respect to Wayne's tapers (they"re Great!!) here's analternative. A Payne 7'6" 5wt fast action rod. It's a model 101. Measured over varnish. I'll give you the raw data and youcan average and account for varnish as you see fit. Payne 101, 7'6", 2 piece , fast 5wt.Tip#11" .068, .0685, .0705" .095, .0965, .09610" .105, .1055, .106515" .1210, .1225, .121520" .1350, .1355, .13625" .150, .1495, .150530" .1585, .1605, .16035" .1735, .175, .175540' .1865, .186, .183543.5" .1915, .192, .1905 Tip#21" .0695, .0695, .0715" .0955, .0955, .097510" .106, .1065, .105515" .1205, .122, .122520" .137, .1365, .137525" .1495, .151, .14930" .1605, .1605, .161535" .1725, .174, .175540" .1855, .1855, .186543.5" .190, .1915, .1925 Butt47" .2165, .217, .21850" .2225, .223, .22055" .237, .237, .236560" .253, .253, .25265" .2735, .271, .27270" .2895, .2895, .291575" .314, .314, .310580" .3495, .349, .349 Guide spacing 4 15/16, 10 1/2, 16 1/2, 22 1/2, 35 11/16, 42 3/4, 50,573/4, 65 5/8measurements @ 35 + 50 were @ guides so one measurement may be offfromtrying to slip the mic under a guide. the Payne Catalog lists this as a fast Dry Fly 5 wt. @ 3 1/4 - 3 1/2 oz. I cast Wayne's 7', 4Wt made by Rob Hoffhines last week and I've cast the"real" Payne 101. Both would be great for a "graphite" rod user...Both are fast, with the ability to cast short or long. Both rods load withjust a short line out and keep on working as you feed line out. We trieddifferent lines on the Cattanach taper and we all liked it best with aDouble taper 4. just another Taper,Dennis Dennis:Are you a collector of Payne rods, or just the tapers?Thanks very much forposting this, can't have too many tapers on hand, especially those thatcome with a discription of how they cast. This whole rodbuilding thing isbeginning to remind me of restaurants with 10 page menu's, how the helldoyou decide what to eat??????Maybe I will reset the forms between blanksandmake both. I have already decided to make two rods at the same time, eventho I normally like to just do one at a time, I like to get thru each stepand get on with it. I have done two rods at the same time before and eachstep seems to take forever. Thanks again. John from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Mon Jul 13 18:22:39 1998 with SMTP +0000 with last message Subject: Re: Catskill Rodmakers Gathering Hey Chris, In your message you gave two different area codes for the gathering andlodging. Is thiscorrect? Are there two different area codes, or is one a goof? [Notflaming, just checking.] Thanks, Dennis Haftel----------To All Robert Reid asked me to pass this on - there will be flyers in thePlaning Form and Iwill scan theposter Kim has made up and post to the Rodmakers homepage as soon asthey send it to me.But here are the details: Sat and Sun September 12/13 at the Catskill Fly Fishing Center inRoscoe NY. Startsat 0900 in the morning. Cost this year to cover Lunch and coffee and roomis $35. As always, there will be an interesting program and lots of goodrods. place - makereservationsnow - I just did - phone is 607-498-5220 - remember this is about 100yards from the famousjunctionpool - so fishing is allowed at these things. We have always have had agood time here. Chris from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Jul 13 18:40:13 1998 head.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA13525; Mon, 13 Jul1998 19:40:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Catskill Rodmakers Gathering DennisRobert lives in Boston MA and Roscoe is in NY. Hope that explains it.The numbers are correct. You will have to give him credit organizing agatheringremote control and w/o a computer - that is why he asked me to post it.HopefullyI will have a poster scanned next week to post on Rodmakers. Chris On Mon, 13 Jul 98 19:33:11 PDT, Dennis Haftel wrote: Hey Chris, In your message you gave two different area codes for the gathering andlodging. Is thiscorrect? Are there two different area codes, or is one a goof? [Not flaming, justchecking.] Thanks, Dennis Haftel----------To All Robert Reid asked me to pass this on - there will be flyers in thePlaning Form and Iwill scan theposter Kim has made up and post to the Rodmakers homepage as soon asthey send it to me.But here are the details: Sat and Sun September 12/13 at the Catskill Fly Fishing Center inRoscoe NY. Startsat 0900 in the morning. Cost this year to cover Lunch and coffee and roomis $35. As always, there will be an interesting program and lots of goodrods. place - makereservationsnow - I just did - phone is 607-498-5220 - remember this is about 100yards from the famousjunctionpool - so fishing is allowed at these things. We have always have had agood time here. Chris from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Jul 13 18:41:03 1998 Subject: Re: How come? Art -No one is intentionally trying to leave anyone out. Several months ago Idid a search of those helping to promote the Makers Rod - having neverheardof FAOL(FlyAnglersOnLine) I went to the site and then wrote the editors tothank them for their support of the project. In a reply letter I learned thateven though they live in Washington state they (JC & Barbless) weremarried atKeystone landing - which is just east of Grayrock - so there was interestinthe river system that the project was supporting. FAOL also hosts a chatsession so one night I stopped in to say Hi - during the chat I found thatweshared many common relationships. They also asked if I could do somewriting fewmonths I have wrote very little but have hosted for 2 hours each thursdaynight - with bamboo rods and rod making being the focus.This year was a special year for Jim and Deanna - their 25 th year ofmarriage - rare these day - so as a special second honeymoon they cameback towhere it all started - Grayrock. Their trip was planned around TTBBBQ -bothhelped with the Sporting Flies Bribery Contest and were on hand tocapture theessense of the evening including the tossing of Vic Edwards and myself -thedistance casting with the especially designed broomstick taper - andotherfestivities.As far as the pictures go - there are a couple of websites that haveposted some of the pictures of the weeks activities - I am not a big websurfer - especailly lately - It wasn't until late last night that I knew JChad posted some - a little out of touch on my part - I have also heardrumorsthat some more will appear in the next issue of The Bamboo Fly Rod Mag.It's unfortunate but no amount of pictures or words can truely sharetheexperience of a week in Grayrock - the folks that attended (and some thatdidn't) represent a very special segment of the flyfishing world - they arethe folks that are the most serious about the sport but yet can let theirhairdown and have a good time - they are the ones that share the craft of rodmaking - they are the leaders of the conservation groups - they createprograms to share flyfishing with school kids - they are the ones thatdirectly or indirectly reach out to touch other folks lives and that aren'tafraid of falling off their wallets of time or money in the process.One day there will be a hand that reaches down and our streams will benewagain - but until that day there is a group of folks that just can't driveaway at the end of a fishing day without feeling that they can dosomething -I just happen to be one of them. Wayne from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Jul 13 18:51:32 1998 Subject: First Bamboo Rod Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine wants to start a page commemorating that first great step in bamboo rod making. Your First Bamboo Rod. If you have just finished your first rod, or fairly close - having made 2 or three still qualifies, send them a picture of you holding your first rod, or better yet of you catching the first fish with it. Send the picture to them with your name, age, city and state. Also include a description of the rod (ie. 7 ft. 4 wt. 2 piece 2 tip), how long it took to finish yourfirst rod and any other interesting story associated withit. Email Mark Metcalf at bam-fly@pacbell.net Darryl Hayashida from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Jul 13 18:59:50 1998 Subject: Re: Wayne's bambbo v graphite John -Perhaps there might be a single ray of hope in my Troutbum life - Iwritewith a Namiki Impressions - unfortunately I have this nasty habit oftaking aperfectly good nib into the basement and grinding it into submission as anitalic. Savagery In the ColoniesWayne from mcreek@sirus.com Mon Jul 13 19:28:41 1998 Subject: Re: Gathering, etc. OOPS!! Didn't intend to post this. Brian Brian Creek wrote: Wayne, Once again, thanks for all the work putting the Grayrock party on. Ienjoyed it even though I was trying to catch the flu. Did you find the $25 I stuck in your tool box for the ferrules? Brian from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Jul 13 19:30:48 1998 head.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id UAA23075; Mon, 13 Jul1998 20:30:47 -0400 Subject: Re: How come? ArtThanks for the post - I have not seen those pictures - it is also truthtoWaynes rumor there should be a spread in bamboo fly rod magazine sinceI did send off a fair number of photos (118) to them. I do have somephotos of a certainguilty party that I haven't spread about (yet?) that may help settle the roddebate but you may have to just wait until "Jackpine Rodmaker - TheMovie"comes to a gathering near you. Yet another fund raising adventure. Chris Subject: How come? All, http://www.flyanglersonline.com/ where-in a certain "J. Castwell" presents a pictorial review of thegoings-on at a Trout-Bums' Bar-B-Q ? I stumbled on the thing thismorningand had quite a laugh. Wayne, there's another in your Jack-Pine Series atthe site. If this keeps up you should have enough pix to fund the wholebuilding of a small stream - the h--l with restoring, you could start fromscratch! It's under the Castwell's Corner "button" then scroll down to his"Archives" and go to "July, Week 1, Unnamed.." The article on the actualconstruction of the rod is a work not-to-be-missed on the way to theartcleI'm citing, by the way.Just can't believe no culprit posted the thing so all could enjoy!I don't think it's right to just let us STUMBLE on the thing!Hope you all think it's worth the trip,Artps: Who's the guilty party? from mcreek@sirus.com Mon Jul 13 19:40:56 1998 Subject: Re: 7'6 ' 4wt. Tony! Here I thought you were a proper gentleman.Tsk, tsk, tsk. Might as well use bait. Brian from Leessinker@aol.com Mon Jul 13 19:47:26 1998 Subject: Re: To wrap or not to wrap What is time?After I read your original post on delamination and the followingsuggestionsI went to work on my summer project .I must have been jinxed, while straightening I applied too much heat anddelamed , it's straight now. After the air changed from a blue to a peagreenI forced glue into place and wraped with yellow silk , with a little varnishit disappeared.A close inspection is the way to tell of the repair, wraping for a littleinsurance does'nt hurt, than again what is the value of the finished rod?My rod was just a project rod to be used for bluegill and the like.I've learned to take the time and not rush. Dewayne from CALucker@aol.com Mon Jul 13 19:55:21 1998 Subject: New Custom Silk Order I have mailed all but a few of the spools of custom silk to the first 26folkswho asked for the stuff. If I have not been E-Mailing you directly the pasttwo weeks, you asked for silk too late to make the list of first 26. More silk may be ordered, however. I want to let everyone know that AH Rice, the company that now ownsBeldingCorticelli, has seven pounds more of the Antique Gold in size 6/0. Myminimumorder was five pounds, but they made twelve pounds. The color was well matched with original Belding Corticelli and CorticelliAntique Gold 3715. AH Rice owns the Corticelli machinery. The cost for five pounds of silk is $500 plus $35 or so you have to pay forCOD charges. I had the stuff put up on three ounce spools. For my order,thecost per three ounce spool including delivery to each order participantcameout to be just under $22.00. The three ounce spools contain 8,800 yardsofsilk (according to AH Rice, I did not measure). If you are interested in coordinating the next silk order, call PatriciaLennon at AH Rice (800) 765-7423 (Massachussetts). from CALucker@aol.com Mon Jul 13 20:05:52 1998 Subject: Payne Java Beige Silk As my previous post notes, I have just completed the custom order for 6/0Antique Gold Belding Corticelli #3715. Here's how you can order Payne#5115Java Beige. Contact Patricia Lennon at A.H. Rice Company. A.H. Rice owns the BeldingCorticelli name and machinery. I gave Patricia a sample of BC 5115 Java Beige which she has on file ifanyone would like to order some. Five pounds of silk is the minimum order. The cost is $500 for fivepounds.Five pounds is a lot of silk. In size 6/0 five pounds is over 234,000 yards(according to AH Rice. I did not measure). You may request the silk to beput on one ounce, two ounce, three ounce, whatever size spools. A threeouncespool will cost about $22.00 per person/spool after all costs are factoredin.THree ounces of silk in 6/0 is about 8,800 yards (again, according to AHRice). You may E-mail me about the details of how my order worked if you haveanyquestions. Please, someone use the Java Beige sample I left with AH Rice to makeanotherorder. Chris Lucker CALucker@aol.com from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Mon Jul 13 22:52:25 1998 ix12.ix.netcom.com via smap(V1.3) Subject: Re: lathe? Hi Steve. A few months ago I bought one of the Harbor Freight 7"x10"lathes.It will do ferrules, reel seats, turn cork and any similar size job. It wasreasonably priced (on sale right now for ($370), and exactly what Iwanted.I would set it's useful upper limit at reel making. I could probably make asmall reel but anything larger would be a pain. It's not as precision ashigher quality (and higher priced) machines but for my use, the price andsizemade it perfect. I would recommend anyone purchasing a lathe to decide beforehand whatthey aregoing to make then buy as good as you feel comfortable with. If you feelyouonly need a pickup, the purchase of a 18 wheeler will be as dissatisfyingasbuying a scooter and finding out you really wanted the 18 wheeler. Steve Stillabower wrote: Hi All, Looking for a small lathe for ferrules, etc and came upon a watchmakerslathe. These *are* small (about 4" between centers). Would they beadequate for making ferrules (or other small parts)? Or, if someone knows of something "better"*, let me know. I looked attheSherline site that is linked to the Rodmakers page. Inexpensive enough (Ithink). Anyone use those? *within reason - I can't spend 1000.00 + on a lathe! Always curious, Steve Steve Stillabower from Fishstink@aol.com Mon Jul 13 23:13:37 1998 Subject: Re: lathe? In a message dated 98-07-14 00:02:49 EDT, you write: O.J.I bought one of Harbor Freights 7x10 lathes also. Iv'e only used it forturning grips so far and was wondering about using it to turn reel seats,andferrules. Have you used it for those?Mike from saweiss@flash.net Mon Jul 13 23:16:17 1998 Subject: Re: lathe? -----Original Message----- Subject: lathe? Hi All, Looking for a small lathe for ferrules, etc and came upon a watchmakerslathe. These *are* small (about 4" between centers). Would they beadequate for making ferrules (or other small parts)? Or, if someone knows of something "better"*, let me know. I looked attheSherline site that is linked to the Rodmakers page. Inexpensive enough (Ithink). Anyone use those? *within reason - I can't spend 1000.00 + on a lathe! Always curious, Steve The watchmakers lathe would not be adequate for your needs. Having beenawatchmaker I have used and own these types of lathes. Most of them donotcome with crossfeeds and the are really not suitable for the size of workyou want to do. You absolutely could not turn a grip, as small size and nohole thru the headstock would prevent it. Don't waste your money. Steve Weiss Steve Stillabower from channer@hubwest.com Mon Jul 13 23:42:57 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A22010F00E0; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 22:44:16 MDT Subject: Re: lathe? At 10:48 PM 7/13/98 -0500, you wrote:Hi Steve. A few months ago I bought one of the Harbor Freight 7"x10"lathes.It will do ferrules, reel seats, turn cork and any similar size job. It wasreasonably priced (on sale right now for ($370), and exactly what Iwanted.I would set it's useful upper limit at reel making. I could probably makeasmall reel but anything larger would be a pain. It's not as precision ashigher quality (and higher priced) machines but for my use, the price andsizemade it perfect. I would recommend anyone purchasing a lathe to decide beforehand whattheyaregoing to make then buy as good as you feel comfortable with. If you feelyouonly need a pickup, the purchase of a 18 wheeler will be as dissatisfyingasbuying a scooter and finding out you really wanted the 18 wheeler. Steve Stillabower wrote: Hi All, Looking for a small lathe for ferrules, etc and came upon awatchmakerslathe. These *are* small (about 4" between centers). Would they beadequate for making ferrules (or other small parts)? Or, if someone knows of something "better"*, let me know. I looked attheSherline site that is linked to the Rodmakers page. Inexpensive enough(Ithink). Anyone use those? *within reason - I can't spend 1000.00 + on a lathe! Always curious, Steve Steve Stillabower HI Guys;I might as well throw in my .02's worth. I have a J. C. Bogeman lathe ,they are advertized in The Planing Form. I don't make my own reel seats orferrules, but it does quite well at turning ferrule stations and grips. Itcame with motor, three jaw chuck, tailstock and I got a set of tool bits asan extra for about $350.00 or so last year. It seems to be precise enoughto make ferrules with, but then again, I am a carpenter, not a machinist,so it is possible that I could be wrong. It has 10" between centers, butyou can get an extra inch or more out of the headstock. I am satisfied withit. John Channer from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Jul 14 02:06:18 1998 Tue, 14 Jul 1998 15:05:27 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: 7'6 ' 4wt. On Mon, 13 Jul 1998, Brian Creek wrote: Tony! Here I thought you were a proper gentleman.Tsk, tsk, tsk. Might as well use bait. Brian The nymphs I tie may as well be bait! (pigs might fly at night too).Actually for anybody interested in a bit of trout lore in this part of the country, hatches as such are almost non-existant the exception being the first warm day of spring when winged termites leave the nest to start a new colony. This only lasts about a week. Apart from that you may happen upon a caddis hatch but more often than not there is so much sub surface life trout tend not to rise all that often and concentrate on nymph life and crustacians which makes them highly oppertunistic so you don't realy need too many different flies as most classic patterns will suggest something currently in the water. This also makes the buggers well fed.When they are rising though it's a much nicer way to fish (dry)This is realy only the case here in Western Australia, the rest of the country and especially Tasmania has great dry fly fishing.A para makes an ideal rod for both situations. John, of course there was no offence taken but I will say I draw the line at strike indicators. I use a greased leader and nymph by sight. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from dhaftel@att.com Tue Jul 14 08:25:40 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2 sol2) (5.5.1960.3) Subject: Catskill Gathering 9/12-9/13 Hi all, FYI... If you're going to stay at the Roscoe Motel, get your reservations now.They're booking up!! See you there... Dennis Haftel from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Tue Jul 14 09:59:49 1998 post.interalpha.net(8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id QAA30464 for ;Tue, 14 Jul 1998 16:02:26+0100 Subject: Re: New Custom Silk Order At 20:54 13/07/98 EDT, you wrote:I have mailed all but a few of the spools of custom silk to the first 26folkswho asked for the stuff. If I have not been E-Mailing you directly thepasttwo weeks, you asked for silk too late to make the list of first 26. More silk may be ordered, however. I want to let everyone know that AH Rice, the company that now ownsBeldingCorticelli, has seven pounds more of the Antique Gold in size 6/0. Myminimumorder was five pounds, but they made twelve pounds. The color was well matched with original Belding Corticelli andCorticelliAntique Gold 3715. AH Rice owns the Corticelli machinery. The cost for five pounds of silk is $500 plus $35 or so you have to pay forCOD charges. I had the stuff put up on three ounce spools. For my order,thecost per three ounce spool including delivery to each order participantcameout to be just under $22.00. The three ounce spools contain 8,800 yardsofsilk (according to AH Rice, I did not measure). If you are interested in coordinating the next silk order, call PatriciaLennon at AH Rice (800) 765-7423 (Massachussetts). Chris You have done a great job with the silk order. I just wish I'd been on boardon time. I think it might prove difficult for me to co-ordinate a furtherorder from this side of the pond, with most of the participants living onyour side, and a manufacturer dealing in $. But, certainly, whoever runswith this can certainly put me down for a spool of each colour (Java Beige,and Antique Gold). 8,800 yards of each will keep me going for severalrods/years/centuries. Once this is up and running, I'll try to co-ordinate a British bulk order,although there's little kindly interaction between British makers, andprecious little co-operation. At the risk of adducing a deep sigh from you, is there anywhere on the webthat I can see these colours, either as thread, or as finished wraps. Myparticipation does not depend upon this at all. John Cooper from Fishstink@aol.com Tue Jul 14 12:10:20 1998 Subject: Heat Treating All,Getting ready to roast my first blank and have run into (as usual)conflictinginformation. I have a "Senecal" hot air oven. Recommendations for the oventells me to heat cane to 350* for 2 to 2 1/2 hours. Wayne's book tells me7minutes at 375*. Though he is using a different heater the difference isconsiderable. Is anyone using an oven built by Mr. Senecal, and do you haveany suggestions? I'm not worried about over cooking this particular bundleofcane since it is the "sacrificial" bundle. But I still hate to waste anything.Mike from CALucker@aol.com Tue Jul 14 12:12:46 1998 Subject: Re: New Custom Silk Order I imagine that words will describe silk just as well as any internet colorimage. After all, every computer screen is different. It's bad enough thatrecent (30 years or so) color charts from the silk manufacturers use asinglepage of colored squares rather than actual samples of the silk. If youknowprinting, it is quite difficult to maintain accuracy on a single page with40or 200 colors on it. The first 15,000 run looks different from the next15,000. If anyone returns a spool, I will send you the silk. Chris Lucker from jmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca Tue Jul 14 12:51:42 1998 14 Jul 98 13:48:24 -0500 0500 (Mercury 1.40);14 Jul 98 13:48:14 -0500 Subject: Re: New Custom Silk Order chrisI was also wondering if some one eles sends back some could you send ittome or was I way down on the list. Please let me know offline. ThanksJohn McKinnonjmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca Or if anyone else is going to be the lead on hte next order please get intouch with me. Thanks-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: New Custom Silk Order I imagine that words will describe silk just as well as any internet colorimage. After all, every computer screen is different. It's bad enoughthatrecent (30 years or so) color charts from the silk manufacturers use asinglepage of colored squares rather than actual samples of the silk. If youknowprinting, it is quite difficult to maintain accuracy on a single page with40or 200 colors on it. The first 15,000 run looks different from the next15,000. If anyone returns a spool, I will send you the silk. Chris Lucker from dryfly@erols.com Tue Jul 14 14:42:13 1998 Subject: Re: Heat Treating I have an Senecal oven and if I remember correctly (my notes are at home),I use20-25 minutes @ 375*, 20 for blonde rods and 25 for flamed rods. Remember toreverse your cane after half the time or you could start to color the candclosestto your heat gun. Bob Fishstink@aol.com wrote: All,Getting ready to roast my first blank and have run into (as usual)conflictinginformation. I have a "Senecal" hot air oven. Recommendations for theoventells me to heat cane to 350* for 2 to 2 1/2 hours. Wayne's book tells me7minutes at 375*. Though he is using a different heater the difference isconsiderable. Is anyone using an oven built by Mr. Senecal, and do youhaveany suggestions? I'm not worried about over cooking this particularbundle ofcane since it is the "sacrificial" bundle. But I still hate to wasteanything.Mike from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Tue Jul 14 15:01:05 1998 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id IAA20767 for ;Wed, 15 Jul 1998 08:00:46+1200 Subject: Re: Heat Treating Mike , having spent last weekend "cooking " bamboo for the first time Iunderstandexactly what your problem is . I do not have any real answers to yourquestion but would like to add a further question regarding different typesof ovens requiring different temperatures . I built a Neuneman style oven fired by a hot air gun . I did make a slightaddaption by adding an additional 1 inch pipe to convey the air from thegunto a point about 3.5 feet down the main tube and by doing this found I hada fairly even temperature of around 320 degrees from top to bottom of theheating tube . There was a temperature drop of about 20 degrees when twobundles of cane were inserted for treatment. I experimented with cane strips . 15 minutes produced a dark brown ,brittlestrip . The concept of putting it in for two hours as some sources suggestseemed like an expensive and slow way to make charcoal . I found that 7.5minutes produced a tanning of the material and a decided improvement inthespring and "snap" of the strip . It "felt right" even to my inexperiencedhand . This is where the question regarding different types of ovens arises . Doesa moving air oven , such as a Neuneman design , have some form of superheating effect , the equivalent to "chill factor" in cold hair with wind ,which may require it to be run at different temperatures to more normalstill air type ovens . My resident oven expert says that for cooking cakesin a fan driven oven you cook at a lower temperature or for a less timethenwhen the fan is not used. Possibly the method of heating , as distinct from temperature, is a factorthat is overlooked in the some of the "recipies" for heat treating cane . ? At 01:09 PM 14/07/98 EDT, you wrote:All,Getting ready to roast my first blank and have run into (as usual)conflictinginformation. I have a "Senecal" hot air oven. Recommendations for theoventells me to heat cane to 350* for 2 to 2 1/2 hours. Wayne's book tells me7minutes at 375*. Though he is using a different heater the difference isconsiderable. Is anyone using an oven built by Mr. Senecal, and do you haveany suggestions? I'm not worried about over cooking this particularbundle ofcane since it is the "sacrificial" bundle. But I still hate to wasteanything.Mike Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz from rmoon@ida.net Tue Jul 14 19:29:11 1998 Subject: test Real quiet. Am I still hooked upRalph from LECLAIR123@aol.com Tue Jul 14 19:53:21 1998 Subject: Re: test Must be. I read you loud and clear. Dave LeClair from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Jul 14 19:55:20 1998 Subject: RE:To wrap or not to wrap RO>dat be the question (apologies to W.S.) RO>I got the delamination taken care of to my satisfaction, but being anRO>overcautious type, I wondered if I should put an overwrap of silk on itRO>"just because". I figure use white silk so when it is varinshed it willRO>more or less disappear. Do this on the bare blank? RO>Waste of time or good idea? I'm talking about 1.25" wrap on the buttRO>section, some of which will fall under the stripper wraps, and about 1"onRO>the mid section. All opinions considered RO>Regards, RO>Steve Steve, IHMO, if this rod is for yourself (IE not to be sold soon) then youcould skip the the overwrap. I doubt that a butt would break if thedelam. has been reglued correctly. BUT the "proper" answer is tooverwrap on the bare cane with white silk and then apply about 3 lightcoats of varnish by finger silk before you dip the section. You also could wrap the stripper and then add white silk to the two endsof the delam. just to be save. Don Burns from gc.williams@MCIONE.com Tue Jul 14 22:34:03 1998 with ESMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 03:33:31 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: test Same here, I'm starting to wonder the same. ----------From: Ralph W Moon Subject: testDate: Tuesday, July 14, 1998 8:21 PM Real quiet. Am I still hooked upRalph from dryfly@erols.com Wed Jul 15 08:35:33 1998 Subject: Re: Heat Treating After checking my notes, I use 15-20 minutes @ 375* with the Scencaloven. Bob Robert S Williams wrote: I have an Senecal oven and if I remember correctly (my notes are athome), I use20-25 minutes @ 375*, 20 for blonde rods and 25 for flamed rods. Remember toreverse your cane after half the time or you could start to color the candclosestto your heat gun. Bob Fishstink@aol.com wrote: All,Getting ready to roast my first blank and have run into (as usual)conflictinginformation. I have a "Senecal" hot air oven. Recommendations for theoventells me to heat cane to 350* for 2 to 2 1/2 hours. Wayne's book tellsme 7minutes at 375*. Though he is using a different heater the differenceisconsiderable. Is anyone using an oven built by Mr. Senecal, and do youhaveany suggestions? I'm not worried about over cooking this particularbundle ofcane since it is the "sacrificial" bundle. But I still hate to wasteanything.Mike from lcdr.hallowell@smtp.cnet.navy.mil Wed Jul 15 08:49:15 1998 (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA04118; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 08:24:29 -0500 R8.00.01) Subject: Re[2]: New Custom Silk Order John Cooper Where are you in England. We have relatives in Cornwall (St. Austell and Mevigesy (Sp?). Was over in March and traveled from London to there with the children via Portsmouth, to see Victory. Had a great time and will come back if luck prevails, after retirement from the US Navy. Love to drive the Cornish farm roads! Mark Hallowell ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: New Custom Silk Order Author: at INTERNET At 20:54 13/07/98 EDT, you wrote:I have mailed all but a few of the spools of custom silk to the first 26folks who asked for the stuff. If I have not been E-Mailing you directly thepast two weeks, you asked for silk too late to make the list of first 26. More silk may be ordered, however. I want to let everyone know that AH Rice, the company that now ownsBelding Corticelli, has seven pounds more of the Antique Gold in size 6/0. Myminimum order was five pounds, but they made twelve pounds. The color was well matched with original Belding Corticelli andCorticelli Antique Gold 3715. AH Rice owns the Corticelli machinery. The cost for five pounds of silk is $500 plus $35 or so you have to pay for COD charges. I had the stuff put up on three ounce spools. For my order,the cost per three ounce spool including delivery to each order participantcame out to be just under $22.00. The three ounce spools contain 8,800 yardsof silk (according to AH Rice, I did not measure). If you are interested in coordinating the next silk order, call Patricia Lennon at AH Rice (800) 765-7423 (Massachussetts). Chris You have done a great job with the silk order. I just wish I'd been on board on time. I think it might prove difficult for me to co-ordinate a further order from this side of the pond, with most of the participants living on your side, and a manufacturer dealing in $. But, certainly, whoever runswith this can certainly put me down for a spool of each colour (Java Beige, and Antique Gold). 8,800 yards of each will keep me going for several rods/years/centuries. Once this is up and running, I'll try to co-ordinate a British bulk order, although there's little kindly interaction between British makers, and precious little co-operation. At the risk of adducing a deep sigh from you, is there anywhere on the web that I can see these colours, either as thread, or as finished wraps. My participation does not depend upon this at all. John Cooper from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Wed Jul 15 08:56:20 1998 ix7.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: lathe? Yes I have Mike. I built a couple and used a 18TPI gear set for the threadand they turned out great. For cutting the reel seat inset into the wood,I bought a foot long piece of square 3/8" steel bar at the hardware store,notched it on one side and ground the end concave and made a knife edge sothat I could mount it in the slide. I mounted it so the knife edge wasfacing the chuck. By chucking the turned wood insert, I can set the homaketool so it planes a small piece off the insert as I move the slide towardthe chuck. A few passes and I have the groove cut. I have a piece of 1/2"bar I am going to do the same way so I don't have to make two cuts. I've built all my ferrules with it. The adjustable slide works well for me dremmel tool but I plan on mounting the dremmel to a block that willmounton the tool holder bolt and use the chuck to hold the ferrule. I can getmuch more precision than the way I have done it. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 12:12 AM 7/14/98 EDT, you wrote:In a message dated 98-07-14 00:02:49 EDT, you write: O.J.I bought one of Harbor Freights 7x10 lathes also. Iv'e only used it forturning grips so far and was wondering about using it to turn reel seats,andferrules. Have you used it for those?Mike from gwbarnes@gwi.net Wed Jul 15 10:19:48 1998 Subject: Re: lathe? Onis Cogburn wrote: Yes I have Mike. I built a couple and used a 18TPI gear set for the threadand they turned out great. For cutting the reel seat inset into the wood,I bought a foot long piece of square 3/8" steel bar at the hardware store,notched it on one side and ground the end concave and made a knife edgesothat I could mount it in the slide. I mounted it so the knife edge wasfacing the chuck. By chucking the turned wood insert, I can set thehomaketool so it planes a small piece off the insert as I move the slide towardthe chuck. A few passes and I have the groove cut. I have a piece of 1/2"bar I am going to do the same way so I don't have to make two cuts. I've built all my ferrules with it. The adjustable slide works well forme dremmel tool but I plan on mounting the dremmel to a block that willmount> on the tool holder bolt and use the chuck to hold the ferrule. I cangetmuch more precision than the way I have done it. As an alternate, get a small slitting saw, make an arbor from a bolt withthe headremoved, center drill for the tailstock, mount the saw and arbor in thelathechuck, place the ferrule in the tool holder (I used two small wooden blockewith aslightly undersized hole) and run the ferrule into the saw with the toolholder.Worked slicker than a button for me, George Barnes Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 12:12 AM 7/14/98 EDT, you wrote:In a message dated 98-07-14 00:02:49 EDT, you write: O.J.I bought one of Harbor Freights 7x10 lathes also. Iv'e only used it forturning grips so far and was wondering about using it to turn reel seats,andferrules. Have you used it for those?Mike from eestlow@srminc.com Wed Jul 15 14:46:57 1998 1998)) id 86256642.006BF0A3; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 14:38:59 -0500 Subject: Flea Taper To the list, Sorry for the bandwidth (although with the low traffic lately, probably nota big deal), but I remember a flea rod taper from Young or Payne beingposted a few weeks ago - I be lieve it was a 5 foot rod. I missed savingthe taper, so could someone please repost it for me? Thanks in advance. -Ed Estlow from lcdr.hallowell@smtp.cnet.navy.mil Wed Jul 15 15:03:50 1998 (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA18977; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 15:04:58 -0500 R8.00.01) Subject: Chicago Get Together Dennis, Did you get down to Corens last week for the get together? Could not make it due to numerous events going on. Do they have a date for the next mtg that we could post? I leave the 1st of Oct and would like to say good-bye to all. Mark Hallowell from lcdr.hallowell@smtp.cnet.navy.mil Wed Jul 15 15:03:54 1998 (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA18983; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 15:05:00 -0500 R8.00.01) Subject: E mail address Wayne, I have limited access to the web to get your e mail address. Could you send so I can talk to you off line. Mark Hallowell from ragnarig@integrityol.com Wed Jul 15 15:35:50 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A450B2B01D2; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 13:42:56 PDT Subject: Re: lathe? As an alternate, get a small slitting saw, make an arbor from a bolt withthe headremoved, center drill for the tailstock, mount the saw and arbor in thelathechuck, place the ferrule in the tool holder (I used two small woodenblockewith aslightly undersized hole) and run the ferrule into the saw with the toolholder.Worked slicker than a button for me, George Barnes Dear George My setup is similar to yours, except that I jam my ferrule onto theturned- down end of a cap screw which runs through two nuts glued to afixture which clamps to the tool post. (Using two of them a couple inchesapart eliminates most of the slop.) When in use, the corners on the bolt head allow me to index for the sixslits on hexagonal rods. Guess I'll have to use stove bolts when I make aquad :-) Which reminds me, thanks for the great info! I promise I'll put it to gooduse. Davy from lcdr.hallowell@smtp.cnet.navy.mil Wed Jul 15 17:03:30 1998 (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA22533; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 17:04:35 -0500 R8.00.01) Subject: Re[2]: lathe? Do you have pictures of this George? Mark Hallowell ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: lathe? Author: at INTERNET Onis Cogburn wrote: Yes I have Mike. I built a couple and used a 18TPI gear set for the thread and they turned out great. For cutting the reel seat inset into the wood, I bought a foot long piece of square 3/8" steel bar at the hardware store, notched it on one side and ground the end concave and made a knife edgeso that I could mount it in the slide. I mounted it so the knife edge wasfacing the chuck. By chucking the turned wood insert, I can set thehomake tool so it planes a small piece off the insert as I move the slide towardthe chuck. A few passes and I have the groove cut. I have a piece of 1/2" bar I am going to do the same way so I don't have to make two cuts. I've built all my ferrules with it. The adjustable slide works well forme dremmel tool but I plan on mounting the dremmel to a block that willmount on the tool holder bolt and use the chuck to hold the ferrule. I can get much more precision than the way I have done it. As an alternate, get a small slitting saw, make an arbor from a bolt withthe headremoved, center drill for the tailstock, mount the saw and arbor in thelathe chuck, place the ferrule in the tool holder (I used two small wooden blockewithaslightly undersized hole) and run the ferrule into the saw with the toolholder.Worked slicker than a button for me, George Barnes Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 12:12 AM 7/14/98 EDT, you wrote:In a message dated 98-07-14 00:02:49 EDT, you write: O.J.I bought one of Harbor Freights 7x10 lathes also. Iv'e only used it forturning grips so far and was wondering about using it to turn reel seats,andferrules. Have you used it for those?Mike from lcdr.hallowell@smtp.cnet.navy.mil Wed Jul 15 17:03:34 1998 (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA22543; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 17:04:37 -0500 R8.00.01) Subject: 60 DEGREE ROUTER PLANNER Did anyone get pic's of the 60 degree roughing planner that was up at Grayrock? I took dememsions, but a picture would really help. Mark Hallowell from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Jul 15 17:58:53 1998 head.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id SAA07006; Wed, 15 Jul1998 18:58:54 -0400 Subject: Re: 60 DEGREE ROUTER PLANNER MarkI have pictures - I will send to you directly since the digital files arelarge andI do not want to eat up the bandwidth. Chris On Wed, 15 Jul 98 16:32:56 -0600, LCDR HALLOWELL wrote: Did anyone get pic's of the 60 degree roughing planner that was up at Grayrock? I took dememsions, but a picture would really help. Mark Hallowell from flyfisher@nextdim.com Wed Jul 15 18:13:42 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id A59511AD0140; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 16:04:53 PDT Subject: Re: 60 DEGREE ROUTER PLANNER Chris, could you also send the pictures to me at the same time.Dell Coppock,"IN THE GREAT NORTHWEST"http://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail flyfisher@nextdim.com-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: 60 DEGREE ROUTER PLANNER MarkI have pictures - I will send to you directly since the digital files arelarge andI do not want to eat up the bandwidth. Chris On Wed, 15 Jul 98 16:32:56 -0600, LCDR HALLOWELL wrote: Did anyone get pic's of the 60 degree roughing planner that was up atGrayrock? I took dememsions, but a picture would really help. Mark Hallowell from channer@hubwest.com Wed Jul 15 18:35:22 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AD0810100D0; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 17:36:40 MDT Subject: Re: 60 DEGREE ROUTER PLANNER At 07:02 PM 7/15/98 -0400, you wrote:MarkI have pictures - I will send to you directly since the digital filesarelarge andI do not want to eat up the bandwidth. Chris On Wed, 15 Jul 98 16:32:56 -0600, LCDR HALLOWELL wrote: Did anyone get pic's of the 60 degree roughing planner that was up at Grayrock? I took dememsions, but a picture would really help. Mark Hallowell Mark;When you are done with the pictures Chris sends you, could you forwardthemon to me?I have been attempting to make a rough beveler out of a router,but could use some ideas. Thanks a lot John Channer5154 Hwy 172Durango, Co. 81301 from richjez@enteract.com Wed Jul 15 18:43:12 1998 0000 (147.126.253.18) Subject: Re: 60 DEGREE ROUTER PLANNER Mark,I have video of it. I can digitize some of the images if you need or we canmeet somewhere so you can copy it. There were 4 of us at the Chicago get together. I left early so don't knowthe next date. Rich Jezioro At 07:02 PM 7/15/98 -0400, you wrote:MarkI have pictures - I will send to you directly since the digital filesarelarge andI do not want to eat up the bandwidth. Chris On Wed, 15 Jul 98 16:32:56 -0600, LCDR HALLOWELL wrote: Did anyone get pic's of the 60 degree roughing planner that was up at Grayrock? I took dememsions, but a picture would really help. Mark Hallowell *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ /||/______/_||_________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > from gwbarnes@gwi.net Wed Jul 15 18:57:27 1998 Subject: Re: lathe? LCDR HALLOWELL wrote: Do you have pictures of this George? Mark Hallowell Not at the moment but working on it. e-mail me your postal address offline and I'llget a copy to you. May be a few weeks. George _____________________________ from CALucker@aol.com Wed Jul 15 19:59:33 1998 Subject: Kovalak,Kubichek,Snider Does anyone know these folks?I have been E-mailing them to get their addresses so that I may mail theirspools of custom silk.Jim Kubichek's mail gets returned. I get no messages at all regardingJerrySnider and Ron Kovalak.Perhaps they are on vacations.Thank you.Chris Lucker from rmoon@ida.net Wed Jul 15 21:04:12 1998 Subject: Re:Conclave I am sure that many of you are aware that the FFF Conclave andFlyfishing Show is being held in Idaho Falls, Idaho August 3-8. Formore details check the FFF Websitehttp://www.fedflyfishers.org/index2.shtml As part of the Conclave there is an all day bamboo rod symposiium on Wednesday August 5th. Whilemost of the Symposium is already in place, I can use any and all help fromany rod builder who would like to be involved..If asny of youareplanning to attend the Conclave and would like to help, please e-mail me off list. rmoon@ida.net Thanks to you allRalph from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Thu Jul 16 05:22:44 1998 post.interalpha.net(8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id LAA10703 for ;Thu, 16 Jul 1998 11:25:42+0100 Subject: Re: New Custom Silk Order At 13:12 14/07/98 EDT, you wrote:I imagine that words will describe silk just as well as any internet colorimage. After all, every computer screen is different. It's bad enough thatrecent (30 years or so) color charts from the silk manufacturers use asinglepage of colored squares rather than actual samples of the silk. If youknowprinting, it is quite difficult to maintain accuracy on a single page with40or 200 colors on it. The first 15,000 run looks different from the next15,000. If anyone returns a spool, I will send you the silk. Chris Lucker OK Chris. It sounds as though one or two may miss out for going too longoutof touch. I wouldn't want them to loose by default, but if there's a spool 14'20" Yup, sounds like the story of my life. Aye, John from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Thu Jul 16 05:23:18 1998 post.interalpha.net(8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id LAA10748 for ;Thu, 16 Jul 1998 11:26:21+0100 Subject: Re: Re[2]: New Custom Silk Order At 12:28 14/07/98 -0600, you wrote: John Cooper Where are you in England. We have relatives in Cornwall (St. Austell and Mevigesy (Sp?). Was over in March and traveled from London to there with the children via Portsmouth, to see Victory. Had a great time and will come back if luck prevails, after retirement from the US Navy. Love to drive the Cornish farm roads! Mark Hallowell I'm in the south, 18 miles west of Southampton. Very pleased to hear thatyou had a good time. Portsmouth is VERY ugly, after the WW2 destruction,butit has a great deal to see. You like Cornish roads! Ye Gods!! Aye, John from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Thu Jul 16 05:26:13 1998 post.interalpha.net(8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id LAA10867 for ;Thu, 16 Jul 1998 11:29:21+0100 Subject: Re:C.C.de France Photographs Davy Riggs is having trouble accessing my site to pick up the photographs.Has anyone else had similar troubles? http://www.interalpha.net/customer/cane-rods John from dpeaston@wzrd.com Thu Jul 16 06:39:13 1998 mail.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) Subject: Re:C.C.de France Photographs At 11:23 AM 7/16/98 +0100, J.Cooper wrote:Davy Riggs is having trouble accessing my site to pick up thephotographs.Has anyone else had similar troubles? http://www.interalpha.net/customer/cane-rods John No problem John. Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from lcdr.hallowell@smtp.cnet.navy.mil Thu Jul 16 07:45:15 1998 (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA09477; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 07:46:28 -0500 R8.00.01) Subject: Re[2]: 60 DEGREE ROUTER PLANNER Thanks, Mark ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: 60 DEGREE ROUTER PLANNER Author: at INTERNET MarkI have pictures - I will send to you directly since the digital filesare large andI do not want to eat up the bandwidth. Chris On Wed, 15 Jul 98 16:32:56 -0600, LCDR HALLOWELL wrote: Did anyone get pic's of the 60 degree roughing planner that was up at Grayrock? I took dememsions, but a picture would really help. Mark Hallowell from lcdr.hallowell@smtp.cnet.navy.mil Thu Jul 16 07:47:05 1998 (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA09615; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 07:48:08 -0500 R8.00.01) Subject: Re[2]: 60 DEGREE ROUTER PLANNER Ok John Mark ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: 60 DEGREE ROUTER PLANNER Author: at INTERNET At 07:02 PM 7/15/98 -0400, you wrote: MarkI have pictures - I will send to you directly since the digital files arelarge andI do not want to eat up the bandwidth. Chris On Wed, 15 Jul 98 16:32:56 -0600, LCDR HALLOWELL wrote: Did anyone get pic's of the 60 degree roughing planner that was up at Grayrock? I took dememsions, but a picture would really help. Mark Hallowell Mark;When you are done with the pictures Chris sends you, could you forwardthem on to me?I have been attempting to make a rough beveler out of a router, but could use some ideas. Thanks a lot John Channer5154 Hwy 172Durango, Co. 81301 from hhholland@erols.com Thu Jul 16 07:49:11 1998 Subject: Re: Re:C.C.de France Photographs No problems, John. Fine photos, very nice site! Hank H. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re:C.C.de France Photographs Davy Riggs is having trouble accessing my site to pick up thephotographs.Has anyone else had similar troubles? http://www.interalpha.net/customer/cane-rods John from lcdr.hallowell@smtp.cnet.navy.mil Thu Jul 16 07:54:43 1998 (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA09946; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 07:55:56 -0500 R8.00.01) Subject: Re[2]: 60 DEGREE ROUTER PLANNER Rich Need your number again. The house is a bomb waiting to happen with the family moving. Mark ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: 60 DEGREE ROUTER PLANNER Author: at INTERNET Mark,I have video of it. I can digitize some of the images if you need or we can meet somewhere so you can copy it. There were 4 of us at the Chicago get together. I left early so don't know the next date. Rich Jezioro At 07:02 PM 7/15/98 -0400, you wrote: MarkI have pictures - I will send to you directly since the digital files arelarge andI do not want to eat up the bandwidth. Chris On Wed, 15 Jul 98 16:32:56 -0600, LCDR HALLOWELL wrote: Did anyone get pic's of the 60 degree roughing planner that was up at Grayrock? I took dememsions, but a picture would really help. Mark Hallowell *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ /||/______/_||_________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > from anglport@con2.com Thu Jul 16 08:10:32 1998 Subject: Re:C.C.de France Photographs John,I just went to your site and had no trouble at all accessing the page or thepix. Guess that doesn't help Davy much, but you're off the hook!Art Davy Riggs is having trouble accessing my site to pick up thephotographs.Has anyone else had similar troubles? http://www.interalpha.net/customer/cane-rods John from eestlow@srminc.com Thu Jul 16 08:17:03 1998 1998)) id 86256643.00483AFF; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 08:08:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Kovalak,Kubichek,Snider I believe Jerry Snyder is in Alaska for several weeks. I believe he'stravelling much of the summer. -Ed Estlow from anglport@con2.com Thu Jul 16 08:17:33 1998 Subject: Re: Re[2]: 60 DEGREE ROUTER PLANNER Mark,I've also been chasing "that elusive butterfly". Could you fire off a set tome as well? Wouldn't mind those dimensions either if I'm not asking toomuch! (I'm presuming the pix are jpg s and that I'm not asking you to get abunch of prints made. I see John appended his snail-mail address; I can'tremember if it's his regular sign-off or if I missed one of thetransmissions.)Much thanks,Art Did anyone get pic's of the 60 degree roughing planner that was up at Grayrock? I took dememsions, but a picture would really help. Mark Hallowell Mark;When you are done with the pictures Chris sends you, could you forwardthem on to me?I have been attempting to make a rough beveler out of a router, but could use some ideas. Thanks a lot John Channer5154 Hwy 172Durango, Co. 81301 from richjez@enteract.com Thu Jul 16 08:29:56 1998 0000 (147.126.253.18) Subject: Re:C.C.de France Photographs It took a while to connect but your page loaded fine.Rich Jezioro At 11:23 AM 7/16/98 +0100, you wrote:Davy Riggs is having trouble accessing my site to pick up thephotographs.Has anyone else had similar troubles? http://www.interalpha.net/customer/cane-rods John *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ /||/______/_||_________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > from sniderja@email.uc.edu Thu Jul 16 09:04:04 1998 Subject: Re: Kovalak,Kubichek,Snider Jerry Snider is alive, well (albeit heavily mosquito-bitten) and back fromAlaska for three weeks before leaving for Montana for 4-5 weeks. If stillavailable I am definitely interested in the silk order--wasn't certainwhether my name actually made the list or not. Address has been sentprivately. Thanks, Ed, for covering for me, appreciate it.Used a newly- built three piece Sir Darryl special for the grayling project,with over 500 grayling from one and a half to two pounds caught using therod. I did, however, suffer a broken tip at the base of the third guide onthe last day out. Going back to my notes, I recalled seeing a spot on onesection as I was planeing(sp?) it that bothered me a tad. I suspect thatthat was the portion that weakened the rod (perhaps a portion of a wormhole or some such?)However, this was a "test" rod made specifically to beat up on the Alaskantundra, and surpassed my greatest expectation. Now I want to get seriousabout this rod building stuff!!Jerry Snider At 08:20 AM 7/16/98 -0500, you wrote: I believe Jerry Snyder is in Alaska for several weeks. I believe he'stravelling much of the summer. -Ed Estlow from jlarnold@lycosmail.com Thu Jul 16 10:24:45 1998 LAA27925; Thu, 16 Jul Subject: 60 deg rough router List, is anyone planing on putting pictures/drawings of the 60 degreerough router that was atGreyrock on a web site. Unfortunately, I was in the Florida area when theGreyrock gathering washappening and was unable to meet everyone. I would really like to seesomething more on thesetup if it is n't too much trouble. TIA, Jeff ArnoldHamilton, OH -----------------------------------------------------Get free personalized email at http://email.lycos.com from Fishstink@aol.com Thu Jul 16 11:22:19 1998 Subject: Re: Heat Treating In a message dated 98-07-15 09:40:10 EDT, you write: Bob,Thanks for the help, I heated 20 minutes at 375* (at least that's what the"deep fry" thermometer indicated) and it seemed to work real well.Richard,another fellow on the list, told me that the thermometer supplied with hisoven read 350* but he used a different thermometer (didn't say what itwas)and that the supplied thermometer reads way high indicating that the ovenisn't as hot as it says it is. The tips of each bundle got a little brownerthan the rest of the strips, but they were going to be trimmed off anyway.Thanks again for the help and info, Mike from lcdr.hallowell@smtp.cnet.navy.mil Thu Jul 16 11:34:20 1998 (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA20518; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 11:35:32 -0500 R8.00.01) Subject: Re[4]: 60 DEGREE ROUTER PLANNER Art Will do up the dimensions in paint brush or something similar. Will take a week or 2 since I leave for vacation/house hunting in 2 days. Mark P.S. Will pass the photos ASAP ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Re[2]: 60 DEGREE ROUTER PLANNER Author: at INTERNET Mark,I've also been chasing "that elusive butterfly". Could you fire off a set to me as well? Wouldn't mind those dimensions either if I'm not asking too much! (I'm presuming the pix are jpg s and that I'm not asking you to get a bunch of prints made. I see John appended his snail-mail address; I can'tremember if it's his regular sign-off or if I missed one of thetransmissions.) Much thanks,Art Did anyone get pic's of the 60 degree roughing planner that was up at Grayrock? I took dememsions, but a picture would really help. Mark Hallowell Mark;When you are done with the pictures Chris sends you, could you forwardthem on to me?I have been attempting to make a rough beveler out of a router, but could use some ideas. Thanks a lot John Channer5154 Hwy 172Durango, Co. 81301 from anglport@con2.com Thu Jul 16 14:42:58 1998 Subject: Re: Re[4]: 60 DEGREE ROUTER PLANNER Mark,Gotcha! Thanks a million. Don't rush, I'm patient.Thanks again,Art At 11:02 AM 7/16/98 -0600, you wrote: Art Will do up the dimensions in paint brush or something similar. Will take a week or 2 since I leave for vacation/house hunting in 2 days. Mark P.S. Will pass the photos ASAP ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Re[2]: 60 DEGREE ROUTER PLANNER Author: at INTERNETDate: 7/16/98 9:31 AM Mark,I've also been chasing "that elusive butterfly". Could you fire off a set to me as well? Wouldn't mind those dimensions either if I'm not asking too much! (I'm presuming the pix are jpg s and that I'm not asking you to get a bunch of prints made. I see John appended his snail-mail address; I can'tremember if it's his regular sign-off or if I missed one of thetransmissions.) Much thanks,Art Did anyone get pic's of the 60 degree roughing planner that was upat Grayrock? I took dememsions, but a picture would really help. Mark Hallowell Mark;When you are done with the pictures Chris sends you, could you forwardthem on to me?I have been attempting to make a rough beveler out of a router, but could use some ideas. Thanks a lot John Channer5154 Hwy 172Durango, Co. 81301 from wdjoslin@velocity.net Thu Jul 16 17:27:25 1998 with last message Subject: Re: RODMAKERS digest 1041 Can You send Info on what we are supposed to dowith this RODMAKERSdigest newsletter Thank you,wdjoslin@velocity.net ---------- RODMAKERS Digest 1041 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Chicago Get Together 2) E mail address 3) Re: lathe? 4) Re[2]: lathe? 5) 60 DEGREE ROUTER PLANNER 6) Re: 60 DEGREE ROUTER PLANNER 7) Re: 60 DEGREE ROUTER PLANNER 8) Re: 60 DEGREE ROUTER PLANNER 9) Re: 60 DEGREE ROUTER PLANNER 10) Re: lathe? 11) Kovalak,Kubichek,Snider 12) Re:Conclave 13) Re: New Custom Silk Order 14) Re: Re[2]: New Custom Silk Order 15) Re:C.C.de France Photographs 16) Re:C.C.de France Photographs 17) Re[2]: 60 DEGREE ROUTER PLANNER 18) Re[2]: 60 DEGREE ROUTER PLANNER 19) Re:C.C.de France Photographs 20) Re[2]: 60 DEGREE ROUTER PLANNER 21) Re:C.C.de France Photographs 22) Re: Kovalak,Kubichek,Snider 23) Re: Re[2]: 60 DEGREE ROUTER PLANNER 24) Re:C.C.de France Photographs 25) Re: Kovalak,Kubichek,Snider 26) 60 deg rough router 27) Re: Heat Treating 28) Re[4]: 60 DEGREE ROUTER PLANNER 29) Re: Re[4]: 60 DEGREE ROUTER PLANNER from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Jul 16 20:22:31 1998 head.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id VAA04444; Thu, 16 Jul1998 21:22:15 -0400 Subject: Re: 60 deg rough router Jeff / AlI can scan my copies of ALs beveler plans the first of the week andput them upon my homepage along with the pictures of the machine if Al does notmind - Plslet me know if you have objections. Chris List, is anyone planing on putting pictures/drawings of the 60 degreerough router that was atGreyrock on a web site. Unfortunately, I was in the Florida area when the Greyrockgathering was happeningand was unable to meet everyone. I would really like to see something more on thesetup if it is n't toomuch trouble. TIA, Jeff ArnoldHamilton, OH -----------------------------------------------------Get free personalized email at http://email.lycos.com from WDHCJL@aol.com Thu Jul 16 20:41:03 1998 Subject: Re: 60 deg rough router In a message dated 98-07-16 11:26:00 EDT, you write: Just thought that with the string going there is some credit due. Ratherthanrefer to it as "the *60 router"...Mr. Al Medved deserves some credit. Fromthose that have built one, it gets rave reviews. Thank you Al.Doug Hall from Bambull@webtv.net Thu Jul 16 21:39:11 1998 105.iap.bryant.webtv.net 102.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id 102.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) ETAsAhR6hxR6Lu3AkRwbOI3PitjUefT6TAIUTrpc3B6TsWe2hZ+jEbKAb0d8cjI= Subject: Re: 60 deg rough router To those interested in my beveler, I am currently drawing updated plans.I will send them to Chris to be posted as soon as possible. In themeantime, if you have any questions, please feel free to contact me. Iwill be willing to help anyone that I can. Chris, please feel free to post whatever pictures you have. Good luckAl from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Jul 16 23:06:41 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with ESMTP Subject: Re: Re:C.C.de France Photographs Worked fine for me (nothing took over 10 seconds or so to load, includingthe pictures). George Bourke ----------From: Rich Jezioro Subject: Re:C.C.de France PhotographsDate: Thursday, July 16, 1998 6:32 AM It took a while to connect but your page loaded fine.Rich Jezioro At 11:23 AM 7/16/98 +0100, you wrote:Davy Riggs is having trouble accessing my site to pick up thephotographs.Has anyone else had similar troubles? http://www.interalpha.net/customer/cane-rods John *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ /||/______/_||_________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > / \ > from saltwein@swbell.net Fri Jul 17 06:29:21 1998 GAA28262 Subject: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine To All, Has everyone received their magazine or are there more peoplewaitingpatiently? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from jlarnold@lycosmail.com Fri Jul 17 07:18:56 1998 pop01.globecomm.net (8.9.0/8.8.0)with ESMTP id IAA11289 for ; Fri, 17 Jul IAA15157; Fri, 17 Jul Subject: Re: 60 deg rough router Doug, your absolutely right....I meant no disrespect for Al and his work. Ijust never caughthis name in the threads for the router setup. Thank you Mr. Medved, Jeff ---- you wrote: In a message dated 98-07-16 11:26:00 EDT, you write: router that was at Greyrock on a web site. >>Just thought that with the string going there is some credit due. Ratherthanrefer to it as "the *60 router"...Mr. Al Medved deserves some credit. Fromthose that have built one, it gets rave reviews. Thank you Al.Doug Hall -----------------------------------------------------Get free personalized email at http://email.lycos.com from DEMARALON@aol.com Fri Jul 17 07:52:21 1998 Subject: Re: Kovalak,Kubichek,Snider Can only help with Ron Kovalak (rkovalak@bright.net). He is located atCanalFulton, OH.Eileen Demarest, Charles H. Demarest, Inc. from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Fri Jul 17 08:31:26 1998 (may be forged)) Subject: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine All,Received my copy of "The Bamboo Flyrod" magazine, May/June issue, inyesterday's mail. Dick Fuhrman from vjwilson@micron.net Fri Jul 17 08:55:47 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine mine showed up yesterday also. great issue.leonard in idaho from lcdr.hallowell@smtp.cnet.navy.mil Fri Jul 17 09:50:00 1998 (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA28181; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 09:51:09 -0500 R8.00.01) Subject: Re[2]: 60 deg rough router Thanks Al Mark ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: 60 deg rough router Author: at INTERNET To those interested in my beveler, I am currently drawing updated plans. I will send them to Chris to be posted as soon as possible. In the meantime, if you have any questions, please feel free to contact me. I will be willing to help anyone that I can. Chris, please feel free to post whatever pictures you have. Good luckAl from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Jul 17 11:23:59 1998 Subject: Handle holder Guys, Has anyone got a neat and simple method of holding the cork handle whilework is being done on the reel seat. A vise puts marks on the handle - collets would have to be done for all handle styles and diameters.Any thoughts? Thanx, Don from LambersonW@missouri.edu Fri Jul 17 13:24:58 1998 (5.5.1960.3) Subject: RE: Handle holder Don - You might try putting two or three wood blocks on a wood base.Attach hose clamps to the tops of the blocks either by using a flatheadscrew or by making a small slot in the block through which to run theclamp. If the latter method is used you may wish to make a radius onthe top of the block. Pad the inside of the hose clamps to avoid makingmarks on the grip. By using three clamps that encircle the handle, eachone does not need to be tightened very much so the likelihood of damageto the grip is low. Bill LambersonColumbia, Missouri -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, July 17, 1998 4:57 AM Subject: Handle holder Guys, Has anyone got a neat and simple method of holding thecork handle whilework is being done on the reel seat. A vise puts markson the handle -collets would have to be done for all handle styles anddiameters.Any thoughts? Thanx, Don from fcfp@ix.netcom.com Fri Jul 17 13:37:56 1998 ix7.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3)