from ragnarig@integrityol.com Tue Sep 1 01:58:37 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id AD215FB006A; Tue, 01 Sep 1998 00:07:13 PDT Subject: Re: 20/20 club on my first bamboo rod Dear Brian Glad to hear your trip went well and that you're so happy with rod 1'sperformance! No better feeling in the world, is there? No, there isn't-not one that I can readily recall anyway... Would you mind sharing the taper for that Para-14 with us? I've got notesof what may be a p-14 that I took many years ago but I'm not sure if that'sreally what it is or not. There are large sections of the late sixties andearly seventies about which I have unresolved questions. Thanks,Davy from anglport@con2.com Tue Sep 1 07:07:52 1998 Subject: Re: Test John,Hmmmm, never thought of that treatment. I just figured I'd turn it againonan understream stone. You may have something there. As to the source, itwaswhat we in NYC call a "Giuliani crater". Our son had just taken us out todinner for my wife's birthday and we were crossing the street back to ourcars when I thought I'd try to touch that bone that sticks out of your ankleto the pavement while still standing. I thought I'd broken my leg in HALF!Anyway, it's much better already , so I may get to fish this week after all.Thanks for the good wishes,Art Sorry to hear about the ankle, I hope you at least did it while outfishing, instead of tripping over the dog or going down the stairs. I hearcold water(such as that found in productive trout streams) is very goodfortaking down the swelling.Take careJohn from hhholland@erols.com Tue Sep 1 07:31:26 1998 Subject: Re: Stanley Plane from William Alden boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001D_01BDD581.0DA11580" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01BDD581.0DA11580 FYI, everybody, my copy of the catalog has the phone # as: =1-800-249- 8665 (1-800-249 TOOL for the numerically challenged, which=often includes me, even though I hate alphabetic phone nos.) Thank you, =Tim for the item #, etc........ Hank H.-----Original Message-----From: Tim Thorstad Date: Tuesday, September 01, 1998 1:15 AMSubject: Stanley Plane from William Alden I ordered a 9 1/2 from William Alden ( http://www.williamalden.com )=today without the benefit of a catalog. The person I talked to didn't = Well, let me just say that if you want to order one the item number =is #629196. The phone number is 1-800-249-9665 (different from earlier posting),= Tim ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01BDD581.0DA11580 FYI, = the catalog has the phone # as: 1-800-249-8665 (1-800-249 TOOL for numerically challenged, which often includes me, even though I hate = H. -----Original = Rodmakers <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Tuesday, September 01, 1998 1:15 AMSubject: Stanley = from William AldenI ordered a 9 1/2 from William =Alden ( http://www.williamalden.com = much about planes and . . . Well, let me just say that if you = one the item number is #629196. The phone number is 1-800-249-9665 = from earlier posting), and cost with shipping from Mass. to Arizona = Tim ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01BDD581.0DA11580-- from ljrp@penn.com Tue Sep 1 08:14:45 1998 Subject: Re: anyone in my neck of the woods boundary="------------820DEC0672DBB239A6EB1DA6" --------------820DEC0672DBB239A6EB1DA6 Hello I'm from central Pa not close but closer than most guys from"waaaay"out west, I fish the Little Juniata and Spruce Creek flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: RO>Was just wondering if any of the people are in my area. My localRO>rivers are the Dearfield and Hoosac in Massachusetts. Great riversforRO>Bamboo. Let me know maybe we can get together and fish RO>Larry RussettRO>39 East Rd RR-1RO>Adams, MA 01220RO>413 743 5034RO>rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Larry, I've got a friend in NYC that's a bamboo rod collector - loves to fishthe Housatonic. Due to ISP's email system I can't read email addresses from a list- serv post, so email me off list for his email address. Don BurnsFlyfisher@cmix.com --------------820DEC0672DBB239A6EB1DA6 Hello I'm from central Pa not close but closer than most guys from"waaaay" flyfisher@cmix.com wrote:RO>Was just wondering if any of the people areinmy area. My local rivers for RO>Larry RussettRO>39 East Rd RR-1 RO>413 743 5034RO>rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Larry, I've got a friend in NYC that's a bamboo rod collector - loves to fishthe Housatonic. Due to ISP's email system I can't read email addresses from a list- serv post, so email me off list for his email address. Don BurnsFlyfisher@cmix.com --------------820DEC0672DBB239A6EB1DA6-- from ljrp@penn.com Tue Sep 1 08:29:31 1998 Subject: Re: Quiet day on the listserv "OLD" Cork I have a mess of neat collectable fly rods, some of the cork on the olderrodsis vastly superior to most cork we have available today, particularlysome ofthe higher grade Heddons (The cork is beautiful on those rods) Just athought and a little Yakking form Central Pa, anyone else have thoughts onthis?? Anyone have a male ferrule for a 9 ft Granger Favorite (TroutWeight)?? Tim Klein wrote: Richard, I found a drill press attachment called a "verti-lathe" through theWoodworkers Store (I know they have a web site, but I don't have ithandy). I've used it for a couple of grips I made for plastic rods, and it seems towork pretty well. The nicest feature is a solid rod that attaches parallelto the work piece that acts as a tool rest. For some reason, I alwayshavea hard time keeping my sanding board straight when working in theperpendicular fashion that a drill press requires. Tim ----------From: Robert Clarke Subject: Re: Quiet day on the listservDate: Monday, August 31, 1998 6:56 PM Richard, a lot of folks do either purchase their grips, or make them offof the rod, then ream and glue to it. I am trying to develop a way touse the drill press I have to turn handle on. There was some discussionon the list a few weeks ago about that, and I have not had any time towork on it from my end. There are several places to get premadehandlesand I have bought from both REC and Anglers workshop and think botharejust fine. Let us know how it goes if you start turning your own. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01BDD51C.E45C59A0Content-Type: text/plain; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A quiet day on the listserv? Heck I can do something about that. Ihaveamillion questions but always fear using up bandwidth. So here'ssomething tohelp break the silence: Both Howell and Cattanach's book suggest shaping the cork grip rightontheblank. Couldn't I avoid any danger to the blank by making the gripseparately (or in fact buying it if I haven't found a cheap lathe yet),enlarging the hole with a round file and then glueing and sliding thegriponto the blank? Many thanks Richard richard.nantel@videotron.ca ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01BDD51C.E45C59A0Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable face=3DArial = quiet day on the listserv? Heck I can do something about that. I have a= questions but always fear using up bandwidth. So here's something to= the silence:face=3DArial = face=3DArial = Howell and Cattanach's book suggest shaping the cork grip right onthe= Couldn't I avoid any danger to the blank by making the grip separately= fact buying it if I haven't found a cheap lathe yet), enlarging thehole = face=3DArial = face=3DArial = thanksface=3DArial = face=3DArial = size=3D2>Richardface=3DArial = face=3DArial =size=3D2> > > ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01BDD51C.E45C59A0-- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Sep 1 08:52:13 1998 Tue, 1 Sep 1998 21:51:14 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: 20/20 club on my first bamboo rod On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, creek wrote: I used a bamboo rod I made last winter (the first rod I ever built),a PHY Para 14 taper. I can cast nearly the entire line, and broke-offmore fish at the knots than just breaking tippets. The butt section andboth tips now have some serious sets in them (compound in one tip) thatI need to iron out some evening.If you're just starting rod building, believe it when the old-timerstell you that you can build a better rod than you can buy if you keepworking at it a few hours at a time. And you'll have more fun fishingthan you ever thought possible! Brian Congratulations Brian, a guy called Mike Roberts just finished his first rod and we cast it 2 days back. The season opened Today so my bet is Mike will be saying the same thing after this weekend. I haven't forgotten the reel seat and ferrules, just been busy of late. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from mevans@acxiom.com Tue Sep 1 09:10:41 1998 Exchange ServerInternet Mail Connector Version 4.0.996.62) Sep 199809:14:32 -0500 Subject: Cattanach's Disk 4.0.996.62 I came across an excellent used copy of Wayne Cattanach's Handcrafting Bamboo Fly Rods yesterday. However, it lacked the disk. Would an owner of the book please let me know if the disk contains software of interest other than the downloadable copy of Hexarod from Jerry's web page? If so, I appreciate any assistance is obtaining copies of the files - will be happy to pay for postage if they can't be emailed. Thanks,Mark Evans from mevans@acxiom.com Tue Sep 1 10:26:13 1998 Exchange ServerInternet Mail Connector Version 4.0.996.62) Sep 199810:30:05 -0500 Subject: FW: Cattanach's Disk 4.0.996.62 I have received a copy of the missing file off list. P.S. My understanding is that this was all legal as I bought the book from a dealer. Thanks,Mark ---------- Subject: Cattanach's Disk I came across an excellent used copy of Wayne Cattanach's Handcrafting Bamboo Fly Rods yesterday. However, it lacked the disk.Would an owner of the book please let me know if the disk contains software of interest other than the downloadable copy of Hexarod from Jerry's web page? If so, I appreciate any assistance is obtaining copies of the files - will be happy to pay for postage if they can't be emailed.Thanks,Mark Evans from tripp@olywa.net Tue Sep 1 10:58:55 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-36370U5000L500S0)with ESMTP id AAA4888 for ;Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:59:40 -0700 Subject: Re: practice I haven't tried this. I got some "B-grade" culms from Andy Royer for sixbucks apiece. I figured that I should practice on the same material. Mark Tripp ----------From: bob maulucci Subject: practiceDate: Monday, August 31, 1998 1:10 PM Has anyone ever practiced splitting, planing, etc.. using the bamboo fromone of those patio lamps? Is it worth the effort. THANKS,Bob from bobbo@buffnet.net Tue Sep 1 11:43:29 1998 bybuffnet4.buffnet.net (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA12733 for via smap(V2.0) Subject: Re: practice Mark,Thanks. Maybe I'll call Andy. I have found that it is not Tikki lamp seasonhere anyway. I have been practicing with softwood a little just to get afeel for how to establish the initial angles and such. Maybe I'll makekeychains out of the sections when done. If there is anyone in the Buffalo, NY area who wants to sell me some Bgradecane....hint, hint. I will pay and be forever gratefull.All the best,Bob. At 08:51 AM 9/1/98 -0700, you wrote:I haven't tried this. I got some "B- grade" culms from Andy Royer for sixbucks apiece. I figured that I should practice on the same material. Mark Tripp ----------From: bob maulucci Subject: practiceDate: Monday, August 31, 1998 1:10 PM Has anyone ever practiced splitting, planing, etc.. using the bamboofromone of those patio lamps? Is it worth the effort. THANKS,Bob -----------------------------Bob Maulucci218 Wallace Ave.Buffalo, New York 14216716-836-8297 http://www.buffnet.net/~bobbo/welcome.htm "Establish a better reputation for honesty in your home community; thenyouwont have to bring in dead fish to prove that your not a liar." - KennethReid from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Tue Sep 1 12:21:42 1998 (modemcable224.173.mmtl.videotron.net NAA02023 for Subject: RE: Quiet day on the listserv Hi Ted. I know LG Custom tackle well. I've built two graphite rods (beforebeing bitten by the bamboo bug) using their components. I agree that theyoffer excellent prices and service. We need to convince them to startstocking accessories related to bamboo rod building. Except for the grips,their catalog is pretty void of that. rodbuilding workshop. I'm planning a trip to Toronto for October. Anythingplanned for then? Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Quiet day on the listserv Richard, you can get ready-made cook grips from L. G. Custom Tackle inMount Hope, Ont. They cost less than the equivalent number of 1/2'' corksand can be fitted with a rat-tail file to fit your rod blank. ---------- Subject: Quiet day on the listserv A quiet day on the listserv? Heck I can do something about that. I have amillion questions but always fear using up bandwidth. So here's somethingtohelp break the silence: Both Howell and Cattanach's book suggest shaping the cork grip right ontheblank. Couldn't I avoid any danger to the blank by making the gripseparately (or in fact buying it if I haven't found a cheap lathe yet),enlarging the hole with a round file and then glueing and sliding the griponto the blank? Many thanks Richard richard.nantel@videotron.ca from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Sep 1 13:04:41 1998 Subject: Non rodmaking or new computer? - was quiet day All, Sorry for the non-rodmaking post. But I'm in need of a new notebookcomputer, the old one has a full HD and is slow (486/66) by today'sstd's. I've looked at a couple of Pentium 233'swith 32 meg ram,active-matrix LCD's, 2.1 gig HD's, 20X CD's and are in my price range($1,300) I use ACT! for customer tracking and no CAD work etc. Any reason these won't be okay for a couple of years of use? Don Burns from eestlow@srminc.com Tue Sep 1 13:15:24 1998 86256672.0064E3C6 ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:21:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Non rodmaking or new computer? - was quiet day Just buy your software now. Software produced in the coming months andyears is sure to be memory hogging and processor crippling. Otherwise,sounds like a good deal.-Ed Estlow flyfisher@cmix.com on 09/01/98 12:03:34 PM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Non rodmaking or new computer? - was quiet day All, Sorry for the non-rodmaking post. But I'm in need of a new notebookcomputer, the old one has a full HD and is slow (486/66) by today'sstd's. I've looked at a couple of Pentium 233'swith 32 meg ram,active-matrix LCD's, 2.1 gig HD's, 20X CD's and are in my price range($1,300) I use ACT! for customer tracking and no CAD work etc. Any reason these won't be okay for a couple of years of use? Don Burns from tom@cet-inc.com Tue Sep 1 13:33:37 1998 0000 Subject: Re: practice Bob,If your attending the Gathering in the Catskills next week, I'd be happy tobring you some ends (3' long) of culms to practice with.Tom-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: practice Mark,Thanks. Maybe I'll call Andy. I have found that it is not Tikki lamp seasonhere anyway. I have been practicing with softwood a little just to get afeel for how to establish the initial angles and such. Maybe I'll makekeychains out of the sections when done.If there is anyone in the Buffalo, NY area who wants to sell me some Bgradecane....hint, hint. I will pay and be forever gratefull.All the best,Bob. At 08:51 AM 9/1/98 -0700, you wrote:I haven't tried this. I got some "B- grade" culms from Andy Royer for sixbucks apiece. I figured that I should practice on the same material. Mark Tripp ----------From: bob maulucci Subject: practiceDate: Monday, August 31, 1998 1:10 PM Has anyone ever practiced splitting, planing, etc.. using the bamboofromone of those patio lamps? Is it worth the effort.THANKS,Bob -----------------------------Bob Maulucci218 Wallace Ave.Buffalo, New York 14216716-836-8297 http://www.buffnet.net/~bobbo/welcome.htm "Establish a better reputation for honesty in your home community; thenyouwont have to bring in dead fish to prove that your not a liar." - KennethReid from bobbo@buffnet.net Tue Sep 1 13:51:42 1998 bybuffnet4.buffnet.net (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA24367 for via smap(V2.0) Subject: Re: practice Tom,Thanks a lot for the kind offer. Unfortunately, as a teacher fastapproaching back to work, I cannot attend the Gathering. SWMBO is veryhappy about this, however. My having summers off to fish really burns herup. Bob At 02:35 PM 9/1/98 -0400, you wrote:Bob,If your attending the Gathering in the Catskills next week, I'd be happy tobring you some ends (3' long) of culms to practice with.Tom from bobbo@buffnet.net Tue Sep 1 14:09:20 1998 bybuffnet4.buffnet.net (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA25734 for via smap(V2.0) Subject: news I was shocked to read this at the Flyfisherman Magazine (VFS) site. Ihope I am not rehashing bad news. "Master bamboo rod builder Tom Maxwell died in his sleep Sunday , August23,1998. Tom, a cofounder of Thomas and Thomas and former manager of theH.L.Leonard Rod Co. and most recently with the EveningHatch of Whitehaven,PA,was universally regarded as one of America's foremost rod builders of alltimes. A memorial service will be held at the Blakeslee Club on TobyhannaCreek at 6:30 pm Saturday August 29. Participants will be leaving fromtheEveningHatch on Rt 940 Whitehave, Pa." Bob from anglport@con2.com Tue Sep 1 14:31:15 1998 Subject: RE: Quiet day on the listserv (LG Custom) Okay guys, anybody care to offer up the address of LG Custom Tackle for usSowf-ob-da-bawdah fellows? I tried to locate them through Len Gorney'slinksbut they aren't listed. If any of you guys don't have Len's site bookmarkeddon't let this opportunity pass: http://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/fishing.htm#US I would appreciate it though if someone would tell the rest of us how togeta catalog from such a seemingly fine purveyor.Thanks,Art At 01:06 PM 9/1/98 -0400, you wrote:Hi Ted. I know LG Custom tackle well. I've built two graphite rods (beforebeing bitten by the bamboo bug) using their components. I agree that theyoffer excellent prices and service. We need to convince them to startstocking accessories related to bamboo rod building. Except for the grips,their catalog is pretty void of that. rodbuilding workshop. I'm planning a trip to Toronto for October. Anythingplanned for then? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 1998 12:15 AM Subject: Re: Quiet day on the listserv Richard, you can get ready-made cook grips from L. G. Custom Tackle inMount Hope, Ont. They cost less than the equivalent number of 1/2''corksand can be fitted with a rat-tail file to fit your rod blank. ----------From: Richard Nantel Subject: Quiet day on the listservDate: Monday, August 31, 1998 8:21 PM A quiet day on the listserv? Heck I can do something about that. I have amillion questions but always fear using up bandwidth. So here'ssomethingtohelp break the silence: Both Howell and Cattanach's book suggest shaping the cork grip right ontheblank. Couldn't I avoid any danger to the blank by making the gripseparately (or in fact buying it if I haven't found a cheap lathe yet),enlarging the hole with a round file and then glueing and sliding the griponto the blank? Many thanks Richard richard.nantel@videotron.ca from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Sep 1 14:43:42 1998 Subject: Re: news sad news but we all go that way someday. I am sure that he will be missedbyall. a tip of the hat to him and may all the bamboo in heaven have straightnodes and perfect temper.Bret from RVenneri@aol.com Tue Sep 1 15:04:07 1998 Subject: Re: practice Tom,I will be attending the gathering and would be interested in some 3'piecesto practice on.I will also be bringing some reel seats for any one interested in taking alook. Best Regards,Bob VVenneri's Custom Components21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882 from harry37@epix.net Tue Sep 1 15:04:35 1998 SMTP idQAA01045 Subject: Re: news bob maulucci wrote: I was shocked to read this at the Flyfisherman Magazine (VFS) site. Ihope I am not rehashing bad news. "Master bamboo rod builder Tom Maxwell died in his sleep Sunday ,August 23,1998. Tom, a cofounder of Thomas and Thomas and former manager of theH.L.Leonard Rod Co. and most recently with the EveningHatch of Whitehaven,PA,was universally regarded as one of America's foremost rod builders ofalltimes. A memorial service will be held at the Blakeslee Club onTobyhannaCreek at 6:30 pm Saturday August 29. Participants will be leaving fromtheEveningHatch on Rt 940 Whitehave, Pa." Bob Sorry to see him go--He was a nice man Greg from tom@cet-inc.com Tue Sep 1 16:03:06 1998 0000 Subject: Re: practice Bob,I'll bring some, see you there.Tom-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: practice Tom,I will be attending the gathering and would be interested in some 3'piecesto practice on.I will also be bringing some reel seats for any one interested in taking alook. Best Regards,Bob VVenneri's Custom Components21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882 from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Tue Sep 1 16:36:37 1998 (modemcable224.173.mmtl.videotron.net RAA16257 for Subject: RE: Quiet day on the listserv (LG Custom) Hi Art. L.G. Custom Tackle can be reached at: (905) 679-6143fax: (905) 679-6094 Their address is R.R.2Mount Hope, OntarioL0R 1W0 They sell primarily graphite rodmaking components including G. Loomisblanks. Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Quiet day on the listserv (LG Custom) Okay guys, anybody care to offer up the address of LG Custom Tackle for usSowf-ob-da-bawdah fellows? I tried to locate them through Len Gorney'slinksbut they aren't listed. If any of you guys don't have Len's site bookmarkeddon't let this opportunity pass: http://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/fishing.htm#US I would appreciate it though if someone would tell the rest of us how togeta catalog from such a seemingly fine purveyor.Thanks,Art At 01:06 PM 9/1/98 -0400, you wrote:Hi Ted. I know LG Custom tackle well. I've built two graphite rods (beforebeing bitten by the bamboo bug) using their components. I agree that theyoffer excellent prices and service. We need to convince them to startstocking accessories related to bamboo rod building. Except for the grips,their catalog is pretty void of that. rodbuilding workshop. I'm planning a trip to Toronto for October. Anythingplanned for then? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 1998 12:15 AM Subject: Re: Quiet day on the listserv Richard, you can get ready-made cook grips from L. G. Custom Tackle inMount Hope, Ont. They cost less than the equivalent number of 1/2''corksand can be fitted with a rat-tail file to fit your rod blank. ----------From: Richard Nantel Subject: Quiet day on the listservDate: Monday, August 31, 1998 8:21 PM A quiet day on the listserv? Heck I can do something about that. I have amillion questions but always fear using up bandwidth. So here'ssomethingtohelp break the silence: Both Howell and Cattanach's book suggest shaping the cork grip right ontheblank. Couldn't I avoid any danger to the blank by making the gripseparately (or in fact buying it if I haven't found a cheap lathe yet),enlarging the hole with a round file and then glueing and sliding the griponto the blank? Many thanks Richard richard.nantel@videotron.ca from rcurry@top.monad.net Tue Sep 1 17:08:51 1998 Subject: Re: Quiet day on the listserv Art Port wrote: I don't know about your patience, but I found it maddening to file thatamount out of the center and keeping it TAPERED the whole while. IArt and Richard,The best "tapered reamer" that I have found for this task works justfine; its an old cane blank with coarse rock-turning grit glued on it. Istart with the mid-section and work up to the butt, if necessary. Thegrit may be purchased in most hobby stores.Reaming this way takes only a few minutes and gives excellentresults.Best regards,Reed from bobbo@buffnet.net Tue Sep 1 17:26:14 1998 bybuffnet4.buffnet.net (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA14007 for via smap(V2.0) Subject: Re: Quiet day on the listserv Art,Reed makes a good point. This worked great for me on some repairs I havedone.Also, when making rods you might consider using a standard straight griptaper like Dickerson used. Most of his rods measure exactly the sameunderthe grip and reelseat. (or so I've read. I can't obviously afford onemyself.) I could look up the measurement for you, but either way, astraightsection will eliminate the need for a tapered reem job. I have messed upquite a few of these. It's a real pain.Best of luck,Bob At 06:11 PM 9/1/98 -0400, you wrote:Art Port wrote: I don't know about your patience, but I found it maddening to file thatamount out of the center and keeping it TAPERED the whole while. IArt and Richard,The best "tapered reamer" that I have found for this task works justfine; its an old cane blank with coarse rock-turning grit glued on it. Istart with the mid-section and work up to the butt, if necessary. Thegrit may be purchased in most hobby stores.Reaming this way takes only a few minutes and gives excellentresults.Best regards,Reed from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Sep 1 18:03:37 1998 Subject: Re:RE: Non rodmaking or new computer? RO>Just buy your software now. Software produced in the coming monthsandRO>years is sure to be memory hogging and processor crippling. Otherwise,RO>sounds like a good deal.RO>-Ed Estlow Ed, My software is just fine. I don't think I'll need new software soon. Thecomputer is dying - broken clamshell hinge, bad battery and a full HD. Thx Don PS - I bought the computer at lunch time. from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Tue Sep 1 18:29:27 1998 18:28:52 ix16.ix.netcom.comvia smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: practice Has anyone ever practiced splitting, planing, etc.. using the bamboo fromone of those patio lamps? Is it worth the effort. If you have access to any White Oak, you have plenty of medium to practiceon. A three or four foot section of small (3" or 3" diameter), straighttrunk from a small sappling will do fine. Quarter the billet and split thewhite wood from the dark. Now using a froe, split the quarters into eightsand these into sixteenths, etc. Continue until you have strips about 1/30inch thick. When they get to thin for the froe, use a knife. If you madeit this far, use the basket splits to make a creel (or basket). Theprinciples are identical to splitting bamboo. My family has been makingbaskets this way for many generations. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from jcole10@juno.com Tue Sep 1 19:37:48 1998 20:34:02 EDT Subject: Re: Quiet day on the listserv ReedI cut pieces of old plastic rods, put some epoxy glue on it and roll thepieces in sand that is used for sandblasting. You can get a handful ofthis sand at any monument or grave marker supplier. Sandblasting sand hasvary sharp edges.John Cole On Tue, 01 Sep 1998 18:11:58 -0400 "Reed F. Curry" writes:Art Port wrote: I don't know about your patience, but I found it maddening to file thatamount out of the center and keeping it TAPERED the whole while. IArt and Richard,The best "tapered reamer" that I have found for this task works justfine; its an old cane blank with coarse rock-turning grit glued on it. Istart with the mid-section and work up to the butt, if necessary. Thegrit may be purchased in most hobby stores.Reaming this way takes only a few minutes and gives excellent results.Best regards,Reed from gc.williams@MCIONE.com Tue Sep 1 19:41:19 1998 with ESMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 00:40:43 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Southbend Reel Seat Looking for a reel seat for a 9' Southbend. The rod has no model number,just says "59-9" above the grip. Thanks. Gary from ljrp@penn.com Tue Sep 1 19:49:32 1998 Subject: Re: Southbend Reel Seat Will look, probably have one Cheers Dick where are you?? GGWilliams wrote: Looking for a reel seat for a 9' Southbend. The rod has no model number,just says "59-9" above the grip. Thanks. Gary from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Sep 1 19:52:58 1998 Wed, 2 Sep 1998 08:52:51 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Non rodmaking or new computer? - was quiet day On Tue, 1 Sep 1998 flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: All, Sorry for the non-rodmaking post. But I'm in need of a new notebookcomputer, the old one has a full HD and is slow (486/66) by today'sstd's. I've looked at a couple of Pentium 233'swith 32 meg ram,active-matrix LCD's, 2.1 gig HD's, 20X CD's and are in my price range($1,300) I use ACT! for customer tracking and no CAD work etc. Any reason these won't be okay for a couple of years of use? Don Burns Don,you might look at the Mitac notebook. Apart from a reasonably slow boot up it's a good machine. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Sep 1 19:54:33 1998 Wed, 2 Sep 1998 08:54:26 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Non rodmaking or new computer? - was quiet day On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, Ed Estlow wrote: Forgot to mention before, maybe increase the HDD up from the measly 2.1gig. Tony Just buy your software now. Software produced in the coming monthsandyears is sure to be memory hogging and processor crippling. Otherwise,sounds like a good deal.-Ed Estlow flyfisher@cmix.com on 09/01/98 12:03:34 PM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu cc: (bcc: Ed Estlow/SRM/US)Subject: Non rodmaking or new computer? - was quiet day All, Sorry for the non-rodmaking post. But I'm in need of a new notebookcomputer, the old one has a full HD and is slow (486/66) by today'sstd's. I've looked at a couple of Pentium 233'swith 32 meg ram,active-matrix LCD's, 2.1 gig HD's, 20X CD's and are in my price range($1,300) I use ACT! for customer tracking and no CAD work etc. Any reason these won't be okay for a couple of years of use? Don Burns /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from WayneCatt@aol.com Tue Sep 1 20:31:14 1998 Subject: Re: Cattanach's Disk Mark -The Hex 96C version is at Jerry's sight the one that came with the bookoriginally was an older version. Neither will print graphs - If you havebeenfollowing the list I am beta testing a new Windows version that will printgraphs - to download the needed zipped disks check ou the followinglocations. members.aol.com/hexrod/dsk1.zipmembers.aol.com/planecane1/dsk2.zipmembers.aol.com/rodmaker01/dsk3.zipmembers.aol.com/rodmaker01/dsk4.zip( a collection of tapers that willworkwith either version) There are a few known bugs - I haven't programmed in the guide cal'syet- and the ferrule weights - but it can design a rod and it will print graphs-all on the same gradient scale so that different stress curves can beoverlayed. Eventually there will be CD's available - I have a writer in thebox as I type - but time is a problem in finishing the program - I hope tohave it polished in a month or so. As far as the distribution of Hexrod - it was always intended to be ashareware - program - a while back I even posted the code listing for thedosversion for those wanting to add personal touches. What the program won't do is stretch stress curves or do multi rods -thatis where I feel human intervention is required. And it will never be pretty-A sort of Jack Pine type. Wayne from lblan@provide.net Tue Sep 1 21:29:39 1998 Subject: RE: Cork reamers Just a word of caution to anyone using grit covered reamers on theirhandles. Once upon a time, I had a piece of grit come off a reamer, andembed itself in the cork. You won't believe what a scratch it leaves whenyou slide it over the blank. from thorstad@primenet.com Tue Sep 1 22:36:35 1998 be "lizard"via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd010331; Tue Sep 1 20:36:251998 Subject: Stanley/Bailey No. 4 Smooth Plane boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_00000038.01BDD5E7" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_00000038.01BDD5E7 List, While scrounging through flea markets, thrift stores, and pawn shops I =found what looked to be an older Stanley/Bailey #4 Smooth Plane in one =of the pawn shops. I'm stone ignorant on such things. Is it trash or = Tim thorstad@primenet.com ------=_NextPart_000_0000_00000038.01BDD5E7Content-Type:text/html; List, While scrounging = markets, thrift stores, and pawn shops I found what looked to be an = = Tim thorstad@primenet.com ------=_NextPart_000_0000_00000038.01BDD5E7-- from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Sep 1 22:39:03 1998 Subject: Re:RE:RE: Non rodmaking RO>On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, Ed Estlow wrote: RO>Forgot to mention before, maybe increase the HDD up from the measly2.1 gig. RO>Tony Tony, Too late to shop, I bought the 233 MHz AMS Tech notebook today. Comparedto my old machine, it screams. I use ACT! (customer tracking) and wordprocessing for my job - not much need for speed. I hear you regarding upgrading HD, but have you priced 2.5" HD's lately?(remember it's a notebook) Not as cheap as the 3.5" drives. I'll waituntil a 15 gig 2.5" HD is $200 in ~2002? I also need to buy a new machine for my wife too and she has TOLD methat she wants it all - so 400MHz Pentium II with 64 meg SD-RAM (ormore), 8 gig HD, 8 meg ram TV tuner, 3D graphic etc etc video card. Then I guess I'll need to sell myself a 20 ppm 1200 dpi laser printertoo. (that's part of my product line) Unless she wants a color laser. (ouch!) There goes a mint short Leonardrod (or two) from Len Codella. Don B. from saweiss@flash.net Tue Sep 1 22:41:22 1998 Subject: Re: Stanley 9 1/4 plane -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Stanley 9 1/4 plane Thanks Rick,Look me up, I will be there on Thursday, will be tying at the ConclaveFridayand Saturday.I was told irons in these old planes hold up very well if sharpenedcorrectly, hope to get by for a while before getting some Hock irons.Tony Rick Crenshaw wrote: Tony, The 9-1/4 does not have an adjustable mouth. Take a look athttp://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0.htmThere you will find info on most if not all Stanley planes. Hope to see you in Arkansas, Rick Crenshaw Tony Spezio wrote: I picked up a Stanley 9 1/4 plane at a flea market a few weeks ago.Cananyone give me some info on it.Thanks in advance,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tony,the 9 1/4 is just like the 9 1/2 but without adjustable mouth. Youprobablycan use it very well for rough planingSteve Weiss from saweiss@flash.net Tue Sep 1 23:18:03 1998 Subject: Re: Stanley/Bailey No. 4 Smooth Plane boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00CB_01BDD5F6.80789860" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00CB_01BDD5F6.80789860 -----Original Message-----From: Tim Thorstad Date: Tuesday, September 01, 1998 9:40 PMSubject: Stanley/Bailey No. 4 Smooth Plane List, While scrounging through flea markets, thrift stores, and pawn shops =I found what looked to be an older Stanley/Bailey #4 Smooth Plane in one=of the pawn shops. I'm stone ignorant on such things. Is it trash or = Tim thorstad@primenet.comTim,A very common bench plane suitable for general woodworking but not =rodmaking.Nice to have one handy sometimes. You can probably get it for =$20-25 if you make them an offer. Make sure there are no cracks in the =sole and all parts are present.I have two and use them for fitting doors and planing things to =proper dimension.Steve Weiss ------=_NextPart_000_00CB_01BDD5F6.80789860 -----Original = Rodmakers <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Tuesday, September 01, 1998 9:40 PMSubject: = No. 4 Smooth PlaneList, While scrounging= markets, thrift stores, and pawn shops I found what looked to be an = Tim thorstad@primenet.comTim,A very commonbench = suitable for general woodworking but not rodmaking.Nice to have one = = present.I have two and use them for fitting doors and = things to proper dimension.Steve =Weiss ------=_NextPart_000_00CB_01BDD5F6.80789860-- from anglport@con2.com Wed Sep 2 08:55:52 1998 Subject: Re: Quiet day on the listserv Reed,I guess I'm playing the game "Yes, but..." but I tried that and twothings went wrong: 1) I still wound up using the "sawing" motion (as Isaid--no patience), and 2) The epoxy peeled off , something I've neverexperienced. I guess I should have roughed up the blank before gluing, but Idon't do that for reel seats.Anyway, if you have access to a few large (1/2" in bore or larger)ball bearings you can mount them in 5' X 8" pieces of pine and stand thepine pieces vertically on two 1"X 2" pieces held together as a "race" andmount the drill at one end to drive the unit, using a hose clamp. You canwrap the blank in masking tape at the bearing spots to prevent abrasion.Once you've tried that, you're not likely to go back to a rasp OR a drillpress. The bearings can be set near the handle for close support and outnear the end of the section to prevent whipping. It's nice to use three ifyou can get them as the middle will sometimes bow pretty good from thepressure of the sandpaper. I can provide more details if anyone isinterested (or bring one to the Catskill Gathering if there's ademand---it's about five feet long).It worked for me until I got my lathe set up,Art from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Sep 2 10:13:59 1998 via smap(4.1) Subject: RE: Southbend Reel Seat Gary, The "59-9" is actually the model. A #59 at 9' in length. The #59 denotes a heavier action for bass, panfish per Sinclair's book. A model number preceeded with 3, such as #359 would be a lighter trout action rod. If you don't locate a reelseat you might e-mail Michael Sinclair. He has parts like this and may be able to help you out. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Sep 2 10:26:59 1998 via smap(4.1) Subject: Hardy Taper Here is a taper for an early Hardy Marvel 7 1/2' three piece rod. Although I have not cast it I would estimate a parabolic type action in the 4 wt. range. It flexes full into the butt. The measurements were taken after the rod was stripped, so no subtraction for varnish is necessary. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu 0 .0665 .08010 .09715 .11820 .12825 .13528.5 .148Ferrule31.5 .15535 .15840 .17245 .18350 .19155 .20158 .212Ferrule62 .22065 .22970 .24575 .27080 .29081 7/8 .297 @ Winding Check from eestlow@srminc.com Wed Sep 2 12:45:40 1998 86256673.006230EE ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 12:52:30 -0500 Subject: test testtest from FlyTyr@southshore.com Wed Sep 2 13:19:18 1998 natco.southshore.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA19024 for; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 13:20:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Stanley 9 1/4 plane Steve,Thanks for the info.Tony I picked up a Stanley 9 1/4 plane at a flea market a few weeks ago.Cananyone give me some info on it.Thanks in advance,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tony,the 9 1/4 is just like the 9 1/2 but without adjustable mouth. Youprobablycan use it very well for rough planingSteve Weiss from WILHELM.RON@epamail.epa.gov Wed Sep 2 13:38:00 1998 10 #26439)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; withNovell_GroupWise; Wed, 02 Sep 1998 14:27:02 -0400 Subject: Hardy Taper -Reply Chris;Thanks for the taper. Ron from dhaftel@att.com Wed Sep 2 14:08:57 1998 sender att.com!dhaftel (att.com!dhaftel); Wed Sep 2 13:58 EDT 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) (5.5.1960.3) Subject: RE: test worksworks Dennis HaftelIST-COE/APTPhone: (732) 805-2714Pager:(908) 261-1944e- mail: dhaftel@att.com -----Original Message-----From: Ed Estlow [SMTP:eestlow@srminc.com]Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 1998 1:50 PM Subject: test testtest from ljrp@penn.com Wed Sep 2 14:22:47 1998 Subject: Re: test boundary="------------498094B8B905ABD047FE9C0F" --------------498094B8B905ABD047FE9C0F I'm new on this site (Old on Bamboo) Why can't you save the emails ofthe posters. without writing each one down?? I'm a rookie computer guyalso!!!Thanks for info!! Haftel, Dennis Jay wrote: worksworks Dennis HaftelIST-COE/APTPhone: (732) 805-2714Pager:(908) 261-1944e- mail: dhaftel@att.com -----Original Message-----From: Ed Estlow [SMTP:eestlow@srminc.com]Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 1998 1:50 PM Subject: test testtest --------------498094B8B905ABD047FE9C0F I'm a rookie computer guy also!!!Thanks for info!! Haftel, Dennis Jay wrote:worksworks Dennis HaftelIST-COE/APTPhone: (732) 805-2714Pager:(908) 261-1944e- mail: dhaftel@att.com -----Original Message-----From: Ed Estlow [SMTP:eestlow@srminc.com]Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 1998 1:50 PM testtest --------------498094B8B905ABD047FE9C0F-- from hwilburn@shentel.net Wed Sep 2 18:10:07 1998 Subject: growing your own bamboo I just learned about bamboo rodmaking on the net and I think I might try tomake one. Has anyone tried growing their on bamboo? Would yourecommendthis? when is the right time to cut it? Anything would help. hwilburn@shentel.net from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Sep 2 18:49:16 1998 Subject: Re: growing your own bamboo Herb, this has come up before. Maybe Andy Royer or the Demarests wouldlike to respond, but I would think you are much better off buying what isavailable through one of them. I think you will have a much better resultthan what you could achieve here in the US. Tonkin cane, from what Iunderstand, needs special conditions that other types of bamboo may not,and you might have a hard time finding some to start with. Just mythoughts on it. Let the list know if you give it a try. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Herb Wilburn Subject: growing your own bambooDate: Wednesday, September 02, 1998 4:08 PM I just learned about bamboo rodmaking on the net and I think I might trytomake one. Has anyone tried growing their on bamboo? Would yourecommendthis? when is the right time to cut it? Anything would help. hwilburn@shentel.net from dpeaston@wzrd.com Wed Sep 2 18:56:28 1998 mail.wzrd.com(8.9.1/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA09164; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 19:51:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Cattanach's Disk At 09:30 PM 9/1/98 EDT, WayneCatt@aol.com wrote:------------------------- snip-------------------------------------> There are a few known bugs - I haven't programmed in the guide cal'syet- and the ferrule weights - but it can design a rod and it will printgraphs -all on the same gradient scale so that different stress curves can beoverlayed. Eventually there will be CD's available - I have a writer in thebox as I type - but time is a problem in finishing the program - I hope tohave it polished in a month or so. As far as the distribution of Hexrod - it was always intended to be ashareware - program - a while back I even posted the code listing for thedosversion for those wanting to add personal touches. What the program won't do is stretch stress curves or do multi rods -thatis where I feel human intervention is required. And it will never be pretty-A sort of Jack Pine type. Wayne Will it be possible to enter dimensions or stress at 5" intervals. Itappears theat the present version requires input at 1" intervals which is abit difficult when most tapers are given at 5" stations. Perhaps I didn'tlook hard enough for the appropriate option. -Doug Easton ____________(____________|===========================o/ 0 \ / | \__/ \ / Douglas Easton | \ / |\____/ Dpeaston@wzrd.com | |* from mrbamboo@quik.com Wed Sep 2 19:34:11 1998 Subject: Re: growing your own bamboo -----Original Message----- Subject: growing your own bamboo I just learned about bamboo rodmaking on the net and I think I might trytomake one. Has anyone tried growing their on bamboo? Would yourecommendthis? when is the right time to cut it? Anything would help. hwilburn@shentel.net I had purchased Tonkin plants from a gardner back east (i live in CA). Theygrew quite well, being watered every day. Then because of the canessendingout runners into the lawn, I pulled it out and took it up to Mr. Brandon /Scott rods about 2 years ago. I was told that they have it in a planter bythe shop. When I had the cane, it grew quite well. The plants cost about $35.00apiece. I plan on writing about this experience in more detail, givingsources at a later date, on http://www.Rodbuilding.com. Paul Whitely from russettrods@hotmail.com Wed Sep 2 20:50:44 1998 Wed, 02 Sep 1998 18:50:05 PDT Subject: re growing your own bamboo Buy some cheeper culms to practice splitting.. Then do as the rest of us buy ONLY THE BEST CANE AND COMPONENTS YOU CAN GET. Your hours of labor demand no less. Larry Russett http://members.tripod.com/~RUSSETTRODS/index.html ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from sats@gte.net Wed Sep 2 20:55:52 1998 Subject: Re: Broke Bamboo A.J.Thanks for the reply. Sorry I'm so long in replying to you. Three piece rods seem to have a higher stress level at the ferrulesand it has always helped on mine to put a bit more cane in the rod atthat point. Did you use truncated ferrules? I have had to be extracautious when using them. Sure did. I inspected the break and I believe that the major reason wasusing a Ferrule one size to small. I've repaired the rod, using the largerferrule and it seems to be holding up just fine. I hope to bring it to SRC. Two piece rods seem to have little troublewith stress at the ferrule as witnessed by the relative rarity of thevarnish seal being broken with just a use or two while three pc rodsalmost always break the varnish seal immediatly. The problem is that ashort 3 pc suffers unless you use trunc ferrules, standard ones seem toeliminate the problem while starting a flat spot in the taper. This is very interesting. I've been doing a lot of thinking about tapersandstress in the last week. Looking at the rod more in the way I'd guessGarrisondid. Right now I'm tending to believe that you can get away with a lot ofstressas long as it's evenly distributed. Most of the problems I've had have beenin areas where stress was the greatest. (around ferrules) I'm wondering if making the rod a "tad" (technical word used by the old rodmakers. Equal to anything from .001 to .5 depending on the application.)flatter around the ferrules, would let the rod flex more on each side of theferrule to "get over" the stiffness of the ferrule? I'm not sure I'msayingwhat I mean here. Say, steepen the taper to about 4in in front of the ferrule station, thenflatten the taper at that point. Do the same on the female side. I'm nottalking about Completely flat. I'm suggesting cutting the taper down toabout.50%. What's your experience say? Thesolution seems to be building your own ferrules of the lenghth required from Dave LeClairs tubing. He provides clear instructions with thetubing. Will we get a demo at SRC? In addition, was the taper a modified 2 pc taper? About 1/3 of myproduction is 3 pc rods and I can state positively that they require adifferent taper than 2 pc rods. NO paras! It was a 3p taper, both before and after. I have no Idea what the rod wasoriginally. All three pieces came to me different lengths. I hope this helps a bit. It helps a lot. Much food for thought. Thank you very much. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from richjez@enteract.com Wed Sep 2 21:01:59 1998 Subject: Re: growing your own bamboo Where is the country do you live? I was wondering about the pempaturerangeTonkin can tolerate.ThanksRich Jezioro At 05:30 PM 9/2/98 +0000, you wrote: -----Original Message-----From: Herb Wilburn Date: Wednesday, September 02, 1998 11:14 PMSubject: growing your own bamboo I just learned about bamboo rodmaking on the net and I think I might trytomake one. Has anyone tried growing their on bamboo? Would yourecommendthis? when is the right time to cut it? Anything would help. hwilburn@shentel.net I had purchased Tonkin plants from a gardner back east (i live in CA). Theygrew quite well, being watered every day. Then because of the canessendingout runners into the lawn, I pulled it out and took it up to Mr. Brandon /Scott rods about 2 years ago. I was told that they have it in a planter bythe shop. When I had the cane, it grew quite well. The plants cost about $35.00apiece. I plan on writing about this experience in more detail, givingsources at a later date, on http://www.Rodbuilding.com. Paul Whitely *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ /||/______/_||_________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed Sep 2 21:44:46 1998 Subject: Re: Cattanach's Disk Doug -As for dimensional input - you HAVE the option of inputing what everintervals you want - hidden in the program is a routine to fill in theblanksso to say - all that is really required is a tip dimension and the lastdimension - this way a person can enter at 5" intervals or 6" or however Gee - if I were to write some instructions there wouldn't be questionslike this - I'll put that on the to do list Wayne from mrbamboo@quik.com Wed Sep 2 22:00:35 1998 Subject: Re: growing your own bamboo -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: growing your own bamboo Where is the country do you live? I was wondering about the pempaturerangeTonkin can tolerate.ThanksRich Jezioro I live in Tustin, California, USA, and it was given to Per Brandon who is inBerkley / Oakland, California. Paul from channer@hubwest.com Thu Sep 3 00:26:44 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A8F3100F010A; Wed, 02 Sep 1998 23:28:19 MDT Subject: Re: growing your own bamboo At 05:30 PM 9/2/98 -0000, you wrote: -----Original Message-----From: Herb Wilburn Date: Wednesday, September 02, 1998 11:14 PMSubject: growing your own bamboo I just learned about bamboo rodmaking on the net and I think I might trytomake one. Has anyone tried growing their on bamboo? Would yourecommendthis? when is the right time to cut it? Anything would help. hwilburn@shentel.net I had purchased Tonkin plants from a gardner back east (i live in CA). Theygrew quite well, being watered every day. Then because of the canessendingout runners into the lawn, I pulled it out and took it up to Mr. Brandon /Scott rods about 2 years ago. I was told that they have it in a planter bythe shop. When I had the cane, it grew quite well. The plants cost about $35.00apiece. I plan on writing about this experience in more detail, givingsources at a later date, on http://www.Rodbuilding.com. Paul Whitely Guys;It is funny that this has come up just now, I havespent the last few daysperusing the bamboo nurserys on the net investigating the possibility ofgrowing Tonkin. from what I can find out there are a couple of places inGeorgia and Alabama that sell it. Price is about $40.00/2 gal. container.The bad part for me is it can only take temperatures down to around 10degrees. I live in Durango, Co. and it gets considerably colder than thathere. from what I have learned about bamboo in general, running bamboosneed to be watched or have the perimeter of the growing area made runnerproof, it is quite invasive. As far as harvesting goes, it seems it takes4-8 years before it is mature enough to cut for our purposes. I am surethere is some good reason why this stuff was imported by the ton in theheyday of bamboo rodmaking rather than being grown here, altho it ispossible that the large companies decided that it was cheaper to let theChinese grow it than to pay U.S. labor rates . John Channer from ragnarig@integrityol.com Thu Sep 3 00:50:54 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A04F6580162; Wed, 02 Sep 1998 22:59:43 PDT Subject: Re: Broke Bamboo boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01BDD6C3.CCEA0EE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BDD6C3.CCEA0EE0 A. J. Thramer wrote:In addition, was the taper a modified 2 pc taper? About 1/3 of myproduction is 3 pc rods and I can state positively that they require adifferent taper than 2 pc rods. NO paras! AJ I just caught this and wondered if you could make a little more specific =comment on this subject. I have a couple of acceptable 3-pc paras of my =own, as well as a really sweet old Thomas and have fished them fairly =hard with no apparent problems. Is it just that they don't give optimum =performance (With my casting stroke it's hard to know) or is there an =inherent hazard to their health? I'm curious as to your experiences in this area, since they are =certainly much more extensive than my own. Thanks,Davy Riggs ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BDD6C3.CCEA0EE0 = rods. NO =paras! AJ I just caught this and wondered if you could make a little more = own, as well as a really sweet old Thomas and have fished them fairly = (With my casting stroke it's hard to know) or is there an inherent = their health? I'm curious as to your experiences in this area, since they are = much more extensive than my own. Thanks,Davy Riggs ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BDD6C3.CCEA0EE0-- from ragnarig@integrityol.com Thu Sep 3 01:03:54 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A35B3B60256; Wed, 02 Sep 1998 23:12:43 PDT Subject: Re: Hardy Taper -Reply Thanks for the taper. Ron Chris My thanks as well! Here's a little song I wrote just for guys likeyourself: People.....People who share tapers...Are the grooviest people....In the World Davy from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Sep 3 01:08:21 1998 Thu, 3 Sep 1998 14:08:03 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: antique rods Scott,I'll pass this along to the rodmakers listserv and see if anybody can help out. Tony On Thu, 3 Sep 1998 Boko7@aol.com wrote: hello. pardon the intrusion, but i am hoping that you might help me. iown 2antique custom rods from the divine company of chicago. mr. divine hadthemmade for a dear old friend of mine in the 1930s. when my friend died heleftthem to me. however, i have no idea of the worth of the cane rods. anyassistance you could give me would be greatly appreciated. they are invelvetcases and canvas slips. thank you, scott counceboko7@aol.com /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from rcurry@top.monad.net Thu Sep 3 05:01:04 1998 Subject: Re: Cork reamers Larry Blan wrote: Just a word of caution to anyone using grit covered reamers on theirhandles. Once upon a time, I had a piece of grit come off a reamer, andembed itself in the cork. You won't believe what a scratch it leaves whenyou slide it over the blank.Larry,Thanks, good advice. I'll try pulling a nylon stocking through thecork, before putting it on the blank. No guarantees, but it might help.Best regards,Reed from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Sep 3 10:04:36 1998 Subject: Re: Broke Bamboo Terry L. Kirkpatrick wrote: The solution seems to be building your own ferrules of the lenghthrequired fromDave >LeClairs tubing. He provides clear instructions with the tubing. Willwe getademo at >SRC? Yes, Terry. Leo Eck, an excellent restorer and builder fromJacksonville,Arkansas, will demonstrate making your own ferrules. He makes all hisownhardware,and what I have purchased from him and used on one rod of my own isreally nice.Glad to hear you're as interested in the subject as I am. I'll post anagenda, orschedule of activities, or more to the point, a proposed plan of attacksoon. Seeyou October 1!Harry Boyd from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Sep 3 12:31:08 1998 via smap(4.1) Subject: Re: growing your own bamboo John, Could you reveal the source you found that sells tonkin plants? I have access to some property nearby with rich soil. The temperature neverfalls below 10 degrees here in the Willamette Valley, very rarely anyway. The property is on the side of a hill, so the ground stays reasonably moist most of the year from drainage. Might be interesting to try to grow some. Even if it never developes into rodmaking cane it would be fun to have a bamboo grove and it might as well be Tonkin. I could line the area with flashing 18" into the soil, this I understand from landscapers helps prevent unwanted spreading. It's true that bamboo is not exactly an expensive part of rodbuilding, but if the land is available and the maintanence is low, why not give it a try. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from gwr@seanet.com Thu Sep 3 13:22:57 1998 (8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA10499 for; Thu, Subject: Agates & agatines Hi guys, I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who responded to ourdiscountedofferings of agate and agatine guides. We've already received a number ofchecks and those orders will ship today. Daryll outdid himself while I wason my angling vacation and he completed every order which I hadconfirmedbefore I left. The response was overwhelming and we sold out of 8.5 mmagates and are nearly out of 9.5 mm agates. We'll have more of both by thenew year. The supply of agatines is large - we shouldn't run out anytimesoon. Daryll was so pleased with the response that he wanted his new"regular"price structure to remain as close as possible to the sale prices. He'sable to do this because guide making is a hobby that only needs to pay forthe occasional old creel or a fishing trip down to Oregon. As I saidbefore, his biggest concern is to see every rod maker, amateur and proalike, use "proper" guides on their rods. So long as we have Daryll around,we'll have affordable agate and agatine guides. After some debate, we have settled into the following price structurefororders placed in 1998 (i.e., you can request an order for 1999's agates andget them at this year's prices provided you get on the list before December31st). Also, on orders placed at the regular price structure, we'll now beaccepting credit cards. This was something that was requested severaltimes, but which I had to say no to at the sale prices. 1998 prices on agatines (8.5 mm or 9.5 mm - red):5-9 @ $20.00 each, or10+ @ $16.50 each 1998 prices on agates (8.5 mm or 9.5 mm - our choice of color):5-9 @ $25.00 each, or10+ @ $22.00 each Thanks again, Russ GoodingGolden Witch Rods16829 6th Ave. WestSuite #2BLynnwood, WA 98037gwr@seanet.comhttp://www.goldenwitch.com from gwr@seanet.com Thu Sep 3 13:22:58 1998 (8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA10507 for; Thu, Subject: Wanted: stainless steel snake guides If you or anyone you know has a batch of old, unplated stainless steelsnakes (those made between tungsten snakes and the later chrome- platedsssnakes), please let me know. I've got a fellow interested in purchasing2000 #1, 1000 #1/0, and 500 #2/0. I'd be happy to put you in directcontactwith the buyer if you want to reduce your collection. Please respond off Thanks in advance for any assistance, Russ from eric.koehler@meissner-wurst.com Thu Sep 3 15:35:19 1998 user@gateus.meissner-wurst.com 15:34:06 gateus.meissner-wurst.com via smap (4.0a) with ESMTP id AAA272 for ;Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:39:46 -0500 (5.0.1460.8) Subject: RE: growing your own bamboo Hi Chris, Excuse me for butting in on the thread... I did a "yahoo" search on theinternet about two months ago when I was pondering the same Tonkinquestionin conjunction with a landscaping quandry. I came up with three or foursources: www.newengbamboo.com/pw2.netcom.com/~rdlewis1/indexwww.tiac.net/users/bambooourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/bamboo I checked their list today and most places have the genus Arundiaria, butnoamabilis. This past Spring, most places had A. amabilis is stock... I was up your way last week - work, unfortunately - and fishing the MiddleFork or the McKenzie in the evenings after work. Nice fish -- chubby wildrainbows -- on dry flies, of course! Eck -----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL [SMTP:mcdowellc@lanecc.edu]Sent: Thursday, September 03, 1998 12:29 PM Subject: Re: growing your own bamboo John, Could you reveal the source you found that sells tonkin plants? I have access to some property nearby with rich soil. The temperature neverfalls below 10 degrees here in the Willamette Valley, very rarely anyway. The property is on the side of a hill, so the ground stays reasonably moist most of the year from drainage. Might be interesting to try to growsome. Even if it never developes into rodmaking cane it would be fun to have a bamboo grove and it might as well be Tonkin. I could line the area with flashing 18" into the soil, this I understand from landscapers helps prevent unwanted spreading. It's true that bamboo is not exactly an expensive part of rodbuilding, but if the land is available and the maintanence is low, why not give it a try. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from ljrp@penn.com Thu Sep 3 15:53:10 1998 Subject: Re: Wanted: stainless steel snake guides I have a wonderful little 3pc Heddon 7 1/2 foot rod which has a tinyagatinestripper; one tip has the original agatine tip top; regrettably the other tipwas replaced with a conventional perfection guide, anyone know wheremightobbain an original replacement?? Golden Witch wrote: If you or anyone you know has a batch of old, unplated stainless steelsnakes (those made between tungsten snakes and the later chrome-plated sssnakes), please let me know. I've got a fellow interested in purchasing2000 #1, 1000 #1/0, and 500 #2/0. I'd be happy to put you in directcontactwith the buyer if you want to reduce your collection. Please respond off Thanks in advance for any assistance, Russ from mweber@icscorp.com Thu Sep 3 16:24:09 1998 mgmt-server1.icscorp.com(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ;Thu, 03 Sep 1998 17:18:02 -0400 17:26:28 -0400 Subject: 2 pc vs. 3 pc QAA23862 Since the list seems to be a little slow these days, I thought I'd see if wecanstir up some discussion (or possible controversy). A few recent postshavetouched on three piece rods and their tendency to possibly over stress attheferrule. What's the consensus on three piece rods viruses two piece rods of thesamelength? The obvious advantage is packability. Aside from this, whatotherqualities (good and bad) do you find with three piece rods compared to twopiece?Does our greater comprehension of taper design (not to mention the easeof use ofHexrod) allow us to build a rod in a three piece configuration that will beasgood or better than the same two piece rod? I like making three piece rods, and have done so primarily for the travelingadvantages. Thirty couple of inches fits in my duffle or in the overheadcompartment on the plane. Any ideas? Thoughts? Mike Weber from rclarke@eou.edu Thu Sep 3 17:22:16 1998 Subject: Re: Wanted: stainless steel snake guides Dick, I think there is a source for those, but it escapes me at the moment.If you find out off-list, please post the info to the list. I aminterested in a source for those as well. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Dick Fogel Subject: Re: Wanted: stainless steel snake guidesDate: Thursday, September 03, 1998 1:50 PM I have a wonderful little 3pc Heddon 7 1/2 foot rod which has a tinyagatinestripper; one tip has the original agatine tip top; regrettably theother tipwas replaced with a conventional perfection guide, anyone know wheremightobbain an original replacement?? Golden Witch wrote: If you or anyone you know has a batch of old, unplated stainless steelsnakes (those made between tungsten snakes and the later chrome- platedsssnakes), please let me know. I've got a fellow interested inpurchasing2000 #1, 1000 #1/0, and 500 #2/0. I'd be happy to put you in directcontactwith the buyer if you want to reduce your collection. Please respondoff Thanks in advance for any assistance, Russ from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Sep 3 17:49:15 1998 via smap(4.1) Subject: Agatine tiptop (was wanted......) Dick, You might try contacting Joe Arguello at RckyMtKane@aol.com. He may be able to make what you want or have something available that will work. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from Turbotrk@aol.com Thu Sep 3 18:03:32 1998 Subject: Re: growing your own bamboo I have grown bamboo for years as a decorative item only. To stop therunners,all is needed is a wall or curb 8" deep. The roots run very shallow and thisstops them from spreading. I will look for tonkin starters to see if this isan option. Our climate in Memphis will support some species of cane, but Iamnot sure if it will support Tonkin. soon to be a rod builder from gwr@seanet.com Thu Sep 3 18:43:46 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA07201 for; Thu, Subject: Agatine Tip Tops boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01BDD75A.9CC003E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BDD75A.9CC003E0 Hi Robert, I've got a good stash of agatine tip tops. You can find these on my website at http://www.goldenwitch.com on the "Misc. For Sale" page. EarlierI'd posted Dick off-list, but it sounds like more guys may be interested inthese old tip tops. In addition to my own collection of agates and agatines, I'll berepresenting the owners of other, much larger, collections. No matterwhatyou need, fly strippers, tip tops, or guide sets for boat rods, baitcasters, spinning rods, I can probably find something to suit. Admittedly,I make a small commission for brokering the deals and handling thepaperwork, including 720 taxes, but without this service I know thatthesecollections would not be made available to rod makers. Most of theseagate& agatine guides will not be listed on my web site; there are simply toomany. If anyone is interested in specifics, please email me off list with yourrequests. Thanks, Russ GoodingGolden Witch Rodshttp://www.goldenwitch.comgwr@seanet.com -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Wanted: stainless steel snake guides Dick, I think there is a source for those, but it escapes me at the moment.If you find out off-list, please post the info to the list. I aminterested in a source for those as well. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Dick Fogel Subject: Re: Wanted: stainless steel snake guidesDate: Thursday, September 03, 1998 1:50 PM I have a wonderful little 3pc Heddon 7 1/2 foot rod which has a tinyagatinestripper; one tip has the original agatine tip top; regrettably theother tipwas replaced with a conventional perfection guide, anyone know wheremightobbain an original replacement?? Golden Witch wrote: If you or anyone you know has a batch of old, unplated stainless steelsnakes (those made between tungsten snakes and the later chrome- platedsssnakes), please let me know. I've got a fellow interested inpurchasing2000 #1, 1000 #1/0, and 500 #2/0. I'd be happy to put you in directcontactwith the buyer if you want to reduce your collection. Please respondoff Thanks in advance for any assistance, Russ ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BDD75A.9CC003E0 name="Golden Witch Rods.vcf" filename="Golden Witch Rods.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDN:Rods;Golden WitchFN:Golden Witch RodsORG:Golden Witch RodsADR;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A;Lynnwood;WA;98037LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A=3D0D=3D0ALynnwood, WA 98037URL:http://www.goldenwitch.comEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BDD75A.9CC003E0-- from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Sep 3 18:58:28 1998 Subject: Re: Wanted: stainless steel snake guides RO>I have a wonderful little 3pc Heddon 7 1/2 foot rod which has a tinyagatineRO>stripper; one tip has the original agatine tip top; regrettably the otherthatRO>was replaced with a conventional perfection guide, anyone know wheremightRO>obbain an original replacement?? Are you sure? You might have a wet/dry set of tips. Wet tip with theagatine. What Model is it? I've not seen an agatine tiptip on a Heddon -not that I've seen all the models/style-changes from all the eras. Don Burns PS - Raining cats, dogs and small children at the moment - what the heckis going on with the weather? It's not suppose to rain (or be humid) inS. Calif. at this time of the year and this is the 2nd day of thunderstorms. from channer@hubwest.com Thu Sep 3 19:06:23 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AF5E720010C; Thu, 03 Sep 1998 18:07:58 MDT Subject: Re: growing your own bamboo At 10:29 AM 9/3/98 PDT, you wrote:John, Could you reveal the source you found that sells tonkin plants? I have access to some property nearby with rich soil. The temperature neverfalls below 10 degrees here in the Willamette Valley, very rarely anyway. The property is on the side of a hill, so the ground stays reasonably moist most of the year from drainage. Might be interesting to try to grow some. Even if it never developes into rodmaking cane it would be fun to have a bamboo grove and it might as well be Tonkin. I could line the area with flashing 18" into the soil, this I understand from landscapers helps prevent unwanted spreading. It's true that bamboo is not exactly an expensive part of rodbuilding, but if the land is available and the maintanence is low, why not give it a try. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu Chris;I wouldn't mind revealing it at all, if I had saved it. Do a web search someplace, I can't remember where. When the results of the web searchcomesup, his page doesn't have a title, it just says something about he has beengrowing bamboo for 10 years and now has 70 varieties. The other place Ifound that grows Tonkin won't ship it, you have to pick it up. Good luck,let us know how you do with it. One tip, if you have next door neighbors,don't let it spread to their property. When I was a kid, an old coupledown the street from me had some smaller type of bamboo in their backyardand their neighbors almost burned them out when it started to spread totheir manicured yards. the old folks seemd to spend most of their timetrying to control the stuff. John from ljrp@penn.com Thu Sep 3 20:06:15 1998 Subject: Re: Wanted: stainless steel snake guides Will Do; Cheers Dick Robert Clarke wrote: Dick, I think there is a source for those, but it escapes me at themoment.If you find out off-list, please post the info to the list. I aminterested in a source for those as well. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Dick Fogel Subject: Re: Wanted: stainless steel snake guidesDate: Thursday, September 03, 1998 1:50 PM I have a wonderful little 3pc Heddon 7 1/2 foot rod which has a tinyagatinestripper; one tip has the original agatine tip top; regrettably theother tipwas replaced with a conventional perfection guide, anyone know wheremightobbain an original replacement?? Golden Witch wrote: If you or anyone you know has a batch of old, unplated stainless steelsnakes (those made between tungsten snakes and the later chrome- platedsssnakes), please let me know. I've got a fellow interested inpurchasing2000 #1, 1000 #1/0, and 500 #2/0. I'd be happy to put you in directcontactwith the buyer if you want to reduce your collection. Please respondoff Thanks in advance for any assistance, Russ from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Sep 3 20:12:36 1998 Subject: Re: 2 pc vs. 3 pc If designed correctly a 3 piece will cast as well as a two piece, at leastclose enough that it is hard to tell the difference. But, I have never gotten a "casting fracture" as Wayne calls it, on theferrule wraps of a two piece. I have gotten that little separation in thebottom wrap of the bottom ferrule on a couple three piecers. Doesthat "casting fracture" really affect anything? So far no. Darryl from ljrp@penn.com Thu Sep 3 20:16:32 1998 Subject: Re: Wanted: stainless steel snake guides Don; The rod is a Jay Harvey "Cleveland" #x3R..... by Heddon. The reel seatistypical Heddon; brown mottled with GS fittings; the grip is much smallerthan atypical Heddon grip!! The stripping guide iv very tiny, smaller than mostguidesI have seen on later Heddons.. Do you know what era the rod is from?? Thetipwiththe Perfection tip has a fishing set in it, so I assumed that it was the onemostused and possibly had the tiptop replaced flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: RO>I have a wonderful little 3pc Heddon 7 1/2 foot rod which has a tinyagatineRO>stripper; one tip has the original agatine tip top; regrettably theotherthatRO>was replaced with a conventional perfection guide, anyone knowwhere mightRO>obbain an original replacement?? Are you sure? You might have a wet/dry set of tips. Wet tip with theagatine. What Model is it? I've not seen an agatine tiptip on a Heddon -not that I've seen all the models/style-changes from all the eras. Don Burns PS - Raining cats, dogs and small children at the moment - what theheckis going on with the weather? It's not suppose to rain (or be humid) inS. Calif. at this time of the year and this is the 2nd day of thunderstorms. from ljrp@penn.com Thu Sep 3 20:17:22 1998 Subject: Re: Agatine tiptop (was wanted......) Thanks Chris; Cheers; Dick from central Pa CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: Dick, You might try contacting Joe Arguello at RckyMtKane@aol.com. He maybeable to make what you want or have something available that will work. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from ljrp@penn.com Thu Sep 3 20:18:54 1998 Subject: Re: growing your own bamboo I have read the the Wind in that area of China contributed to the strengthof thecane?? Would this be a factor in growing you own bamboo?? Turbotrk@aol.com wrote: I have grown bamboo for years as a decorative item only. To stop therunners,all is needed is a wall or curb 8" deep. The roots run very shallow andthisstops them from spreading. I will look for tonkin starters to see if thisisan option. Our climate in Memphis will support some species of cane,but I amnot sure if it will support Tonkin. soon to be a rod builder from LECLAIR123@aol.com Thu Sep 3 20:28:43 1998 Subject: Re: Wanted: stainless steel snake guides Don,It must be something to do with the weather.Keep your chin up,espescialy if it gets up to your neck. Dave L. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Sep 3 21:18:06 1998 Subject: Bamboo Flyrod magazine. Has any1 seen or heard about Vol 1 issue 4 yet July /August. Mark anyword ordid I miss it .Bret from ccurrojr@mindspring.com Thu Sep 3 21:20:52 1998 Subject: Southern Rodmakers Gathering Just thought I'd pass on a message to any new rodmakers and thosewho want to be new rodmakers who might be lurking in the bowels of thislist. If there is any way that you can break away from work and home andeven fishing on October 2 and 3, you really should - so that you cancome to the Southern Rodmakers Gathering in Mountain Home, Arkansas.I was in COLCO Woodworking today (a store in Memphis) and wastalking to a gentleman who works there part time in his retirement (WaltEvans). I've spoken with him many times, but today talking aboutLie- Nielson led to bamboo rodmaking and then he tells me that he plansto attend the Gathering with his son Mark Evans and they both (mostlyMark) hope to start making rods. I then slowly built up to a typicalSicilian tirade encouraging him to DEFINITELY make the SouthernGathering to take advantage of the FREE two-day workshop which will begiven by the Bamboo Goddess of Casnovia, the JackPine Momma of MichiganRodmakers, none other than Wayne Cattanach. This FREE two-day workshop(not to be confused with the week-long workshop I attended in Graylingand payed Cattanach thousands of dollars for) is just what ANY beginnerneeds - and just what will push a wannabe right on over that slipperybamboo slope into rodmaking never- neverland.Along with all the other demonstrations/presentations beingorganized by Harry Boyd, this Gathering is looking GREAT: lots of bamboorods to drool over; experienced rodmakers to learn from; and maybe evenone or two nice people to meet. Heck, I'll bet even Cattanach will benice to people in his workshop since it will be in a public place - yousee if you should ever take his weeklong course which is conducted in alocked shack in beautiful downtown Grayling, Michigan, you will discoverthe joy he takes in whacking students with bamboo strips if they evenlook up from their work, let alone ask if there will be a lunch break.So . . . all this bandwidth to say: New folks - make it if you can.Experienced folks - be gentile with us when we show you our first rodwith a really mucked-up finish. (Yes, Wayne, I WILL build the friggin'dip tube like you told me I should.)Amen. Over and out. Charlie C. from moucheux@sympatico.ca Thu Sep 3 21:46:23 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod magazine. Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Has any1 seen or heard about Vol 1 issue 4 yet July /August. Mark anyword ordid I miss it .Bret________ I have not yet received mine. Thought I was the only...-- Michel LajoieLe Moucheuxhttp://www.titan.qc.ca/moucheux from ghinde@inconnect.com Thu Sep 3 21:48:13 1998 Subject: Re: Wanted: stainless steel snake guides Would these be Perfection's stainless steel snake guides? If so, seeCustom Tackle Supply 1997-1998 Catalog page27.phone (615)684-6164 George Greys River Rod Co.ghinde@inconnect.com ----------From: Robert Clarke Subject: Re: Wanted: stainless steel snake guidesDate: Thursday, September 03, 1998 4:20 PM Dick, I think there is a source for those, but it escapes me at themoment.If you find out off-list, please post the info to the list. I aminterested in a source for those as well. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Dick Fogel Subject: Re: Wanted: stainless steel snake guidesDate: Thursday, September 03, 1998 1:50 PM I have a wonderful little 3pc Heddon 7 1/2 foot rod which has a tinyagatinestripper; one tip has the original agatine tip top; regrettably theother tipwas replaced with a conventional perfection guide, anyone know wheremightobbain an original replacement?? Golden Witch wrote: If you or anyone you know has a batch of old, unplated stainlesssteelsnakes (those made between tungsten snakes and the laterchrome-platedsssnakes), please let me know. I've got a fellow interested inpurchasing2000 #1, 1000 #1/0, and 500 #2/0. I'd be happy to put you in directcontactwith the buyer if you want to reduce your collection. Please respondoff Thanks in advance for any assistance, Russ from bobbo@buffnet.net Thu Sep 3 21:51:46 1998 bybuffnet4.buffnet.net (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA16633 for via smap(V2.0) Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod magazine. I contacted them and they said Labor Day. I was getting worried too. It's adecent read. Bob At 10:17 PM 9/3/98 EDT, you wrote:Has any1 seen or heard about Vol 1 issue 4 yet July /August. Mark anyword ordid I miss it .Bret from thorstad@primenet.com Thu Sep 3 21:55:55 1998 be "lizard"via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd024004; Thu Sep 3 19:55:431998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod magazine. I just talked to Mark at BFF this evening. The issue is late in gettingout. Don't panic (like I did), I belive the reason for the delay isjustified. Tim thorstad@primenet.com -----Original Message----- Subject: Bamboo Flyrod magazine. Has any1 seen or heard about Vol 1 issue 4 yet July /August. Mark anywordordid I miss it .Bret from bobbo@buffnet.net Thu Sep 3 22:02:48 1998 bybuffnet4.buffnet.net (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA17770 for via smap(V2.0) Subject: Re: Wanted: stainless steel snake guides According to Michael Sinclair's excellent "Bamboo Rod RestorationHandbook", theCleveland is an equivalent to a Heddon #13 "Lucky Angler." The wrapswould be Goldtipped Brown if it is Post War and any number of colors before WWII.Bob At 09:13 PM 9/3/98 -0400, you wrote:Don; The rod is a Jay Harvey "Cleveland" #x3R..... by Heddon. The reel seatistypical Heddon; brown mottled with GS fittings; the grip is much smallerthan atypical Heddon grip!! The stripping guide iv very tiny, smaller than mostguidesI have seen on later Heddons.. Do you know what era the rod is from?? The tipwiththe Perfection tip has a fishing set in it, so I assumed that it was the onemostused and possibly had the tiptop replaced -----------------------------Bob Maulucci218 Wallace Ave.Buffalo, New York 14216716-836-8297 http://www.buffnet.net/~bobbo/welcome.htm "Establish a better reputation for honesty in your home community; thenyou wonthave to bring in dead fish to prove that your not a liar." - Kenneth Reid from ljrp@penn.com Thu Sep 3 22:16:59 1998 Subject: Re: Wanted: stainless steel snake guides Thanks a ton for info, the wraps are gold with single brown tipping. I alsohave a7 foot Folsum with wrapping on the grip a 7 1\2 ft Folsum with oxidizedmetalwhich is a real beauty, I love dark cane and dark metal on a fly rod. Afriend of mine just moved here from Rush N. Y. is that near your area? bob maulucci wrote: According to Michael Sinclair's excellent "Bamboo Rod RestorationHandbook", theCleveland is an equivalent to a Heddon #13 "Lucky Angler." The wrapswould be Goldtipped Brown if it is Post War and any number of colors before WWII.Bob At 09:13 PM 9/3/98 -0400, you wrote:Don; The rod is a Jay Harvey "Cleveland" #x3R..... by Heddon. The reelseat istypical Heddon; brown mottled with GS fittings; the grip is muchsmaller than atypical Heddon grip!! The stripping guide iv very tiny, smaller thanmostguidesI have seen on later Heddons.. Do you know what era the rod is from?? The tipwiththe Perfection tip has a fishing set in it, so I assumed that it was theonemostused and possibly had the tiptop replaced -----------------------------Bob Maulucci218 Wallace Ave.Buffalo, New York 14216716-836-8297 http://www.buffnet.net/~bobbo/welcome.htm "Establish a better reputation for honesty in your home community; thenyou wonthave to bring in dead fish to prove that your not a liar." - Kenneth Reid from rdonnely@webtv.net Thu Sep 3 22:43:14 1998 112.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with 112.iap.bryant.webtv.net(8.8.5/mt.gso.26Feb98) id UAA26313; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 20:42:18 -0700 ETAtAhQb1nYAFM55ovF5+zzu84Ysh7zmsQIVAJykOX+HdrXMFzyuBCpt+oboHWSb Subject: Granger W/M Victory 8 1/2 ft Still have my first fly rod, purchased for me in 1943. One tip down 31/2" and other tip down 1/2". New to this and I dont feel compentant toplane two new tips. Where do I start ? Ray Donnely from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Sep 3 23:24:16 1998 Subject: Re: Wanted: stainless steel snake guides Michael Sinclair has an email address (caneclinic@aol.com) and he mightbe the very best source of info. Don Burns RO>Thanks a ton for info, the wraps are gold with single brown tipping. IalsoRO>friend of mine just moved here from Rush N. Y. is that near your area? RO>bob maulucci wrote: RO>> According to Michael Sinclair's excellent "Bamboo Rod RestorationHandbookRO>> BobRO>>RO>> At 09:13 PM 9/3/98 -0400, you wrote:RO>> >Don; The rod is a Jay Harvey "Cleveland" #x3R..... by Heddon. The reelsRO>> >typical Heddon; brown mottled with GS fittings; the grip is muchsmallerRO>> >typical Heddon grip!! The stripping guide iv very tiny, smaller thanmoRO>> >I have seen on later Heddons.. Do you know what era the rod isfrom?? ThRO>> >the Perfection tip has a fishing set in it, so I assumed that it wastheRO>> >used and possibly had the tiptop replacedRO>> >RO>> -----------------------------RO>> Bob MaulucciRO>> 218 Wallace Ave.RO>> Buffalo, New York 14216RO>> 716-836-8297RO>>RO>> http://www.buffnet.net/~bobbo/welcome.htmRO>>RO>> "Establish a better reputation for honesty in your home community;then yo from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Sep 3 23:26:59 1998 Subject: RE:Granger W/M Victory 8 1/2 ft RO>Still have my first fly rod, purchased for me in 1943. One tip down 3RO>1/2" and other tip down 1/2". New to this and I dont feel compentant toRO>plane two new tips. Where do I start ? RO>Ray Donnely Ray, Don't worry about the one tip that is 1/2" short. The other tip could bescarf repaired if you can find a suitable donor tip. (hard to do) But a scarf is a bit easier than doing a whole new tip. My $0.02. Don Burns from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Sep 3 23:35:49 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod magazine. In a message dated 9/3/98 7:58:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time,bobbo@buffnet.netwrites: I contacted them and they said Labor Day. I was getting worried too. It'sadecent read. I don't mean to rub it in, but I've seen No. 4. Great article on taperdesign by Per Brandin. One of the advantages for all the free helpI've been giving them. Oh, and another advantage - all the old rodsI've been able to handle. I'm in bamboo fly rod heaven.... Darryl from RMargiotta@aol.com Fri Sep 4 04:48:24 1998 Subject: Re: Wanted: stainless steel snake guides The Dale Clemens catalog alos has the plain stainless snakes. --Rich from channer@hubwest.com Fri Sep 4 06:36:12 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A10B89900F4; Fri, 04 Sep 1998 05:37:47 MDT Subject: Re: Granger W/M Victory 8 1/2 ft At 11:42 PM 9/3/98 -0400, you wrote:Still have my first fly rod, purchased for me in 1943. One tip down 31/2" and other tip down 1/2". New to this and I dont feel compentant toplane two new tips. Where do I start ? Ray Donnely Ray;Ricks Rods in Denver has all the old W&G stock, you could get areplacementtip section from them.They are on the web, you can get there thru theRodmakers page.John from saltwein@swbell.net Fri Sep 4 07:26:02 1998 gw2adm.rcsntx.swbell.net HAA02525 Subject: SRC I thought the Southern Rodmakers Gathering was to be a one day affair onthe 1st of October. Now I read there is to be a two day demonstrationnon the 2nd &3rd. Has it expanded from its original parameters? Regards, SteveIndepdence, MO from stpete@netten.net Fri Sep 4 07:55:03 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA14890 for Subject: One piece tapers 3-5 wt Normally, I print and collect every taper I find, just to archive it. Iam interested in making a one piece rod and lo and behold, I find I haveno such taper in my files. I searched a few months in the Archives, buthad trouble downloading the entire months files. If someone has a one piece taper that they wouldn't mind sharing, I'dlove to try it. Rick Crenshaw from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Sep 4 08:02:45 1998 Subject: Re: growing your own bamboo Back in the 1930's, when Tonkin was a bigger commercial item, the USDAtriedgrowing rod quality cane. I think they tried two locations in the south. Ihave also heard of experiments in Cuba. Apparently, the cane did grow, butthequality was not acceptable for rods. It would certainly be interesting tohavea grove of the stuff for show and tell, but I would not get my hopes upaboutthe quality. from Turbotrk@aol.com Fri Sep 4 08:05:27 1998 Subject: Re: growing your own bamboo I would say that wind would be a factor on the outer edges of a grove. Intheinterior, the bamboo isolates almost the gusts down to nothing. Theoveralldurability comes from the whole grove working together, not just oneplant. soon to be a rod builder from Turbotrk@aol.com Fri Sep 4 08:11:28 1998 Subject: Re: Southern Rodmakers Gathering I will be attending as will my son. I cannot wait for the experience. Stuart S. MillerMemphis from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Sep 4 08:30:20 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Bamboo Flyrod magazine. Darryl,No rub taken sometimes you just happen to be in the right places. I havehadmy advantages too.Bret from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Sep 4 09:14:14 1998 Fri, 4 Sep 1998 22:13:39 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: growing your own bamboo On Fri, 4 Sep 1998 TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: Back in the 1930's, when Tonkin was a bigger commercial item, the USDAtriedgrowing rod quality cane. I think they tried two locations in the south. Ihave also heard of experiments in Cuba. Apparently, the cane did grow,but thequality was not acceptable for rods. It would certainly be interesting tohavea grove of the stuff for show and tell, but I would not get my hopes upaboutthe quality. I think there are lots of factors involved here apart from climate and prevailing winds etc. A good example is Eucalyptus trees. There are hundreds of different types of "Gum trees" and here where they like it the charistics of the timber seem to be completely different to what you get in other parts of the world."Sydney Blue Gum" is used for furniture here, particually kitchens and kitchen benches as it grows steadily and is dimentionaly stable however I was reading that in South Africa the trees will explode at the trunks and need to have steel bands applied while growing so the timber is useable. I wouldn't *think* this is due to different temps as these trees grow from the coast to the snowline over here.I believe These are the species growing in California where the timber isn't even considered good for burning. "Spotted Gum" is another example. My yacht is timbered out and keeled using this timber, built in '58 and still going yet Wooden Boat listed Spotted Gum as an inferior timber for boat building. On the East coast of Australia almost all timber boats use this timber.I remember seeing a Spotted Gum right at the Ti Aringa hut near Taupo NZand the bloody thing was Sooooo huge I didn't recognise it at first. Alpine Ash are the 2nd tallest growing trees on the planet, the largest tree ever cut and measured anywhere was an Alpine Ash. These grow as straight as arrows in deep valleys of Victoria with almost identical weather conditions to central Nth Island of New Zealand yet they wont grow there, apparently they have root nematodes that handle the trace elements in specific ways. If the bugs that cuase these nematodes are lacking or wrong, the charistics of the trees wont be carried through.There is a guy just North of Brisbane who has been growing bamboos for some years now and wont even send me a sample of Tonkin because hesays his just isn't up to scratch compared to the piece I sent him for comparison which makes me think there may be something about theregion in China apart from the wind etc. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Fri Sep 4 09:31:00 1998 Subject: Re: SRC Steve,You've got it figured out. This thing is taking on a life of its own,as Hank Woolman predicted it would. Wayne is doing the workshop CharlesCurro described (so brilliantly?) on Friday and possibly Saturday, and thathas only developed recently. We're up to 35 commitments to attend that Iknow of, with quite a few more that I am hearing whispered about.I hope you can make plans to be with us for all that you are interestedin. I'll bet Charles' post draws some additional interest!Harry Steve wrote: I thought the Southern Rodmakers Gathering was to be a one day affair onthe 1st of October. Now I read there is to be a two day demonstrationnon the 2nd &3rd. Has it expanded from its original parameters? Regards, SteveIndepdence, MO from bobbo@buffnet.net Fri Sep 4 10:21:12 1998 bybuffnet4.buffnet.net (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA15676 for buffnet9.buffnet.net viasmap (V2.0) Subject: Jay Harvey Rod Dick, I don't Rush is near Buffalo. But, if you get up to the Buffalo area, the fallsalmon and brown trout fishing is going to take off in the next month orso. Ican't wait to try a Winston 8wt I just got! Yeaha!But seriously, you could contact Michael Sinclair for more info. He seemedverynice every time I had a question.Bob -----------------------------Bob Maulucci218 Wallace Ave.Buffalo, New York 14216716-836-8297 http://www.buffnet.net/~bobbo/welcome.htm "Establish a better reputation for honesty in your home community; thenyou wonthave to bring in dead fish to prove that your not a liar." - Kenneth Reid from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Fri Sep 4 10:32:03 1998 via smap(4.1) Subject: RE: One piece tapers 3-5 wt Rick, Tom Smithwick has a 5 1/2' one piece 4/5 wt. taper posted at Jerry Fosters Webpage http://home1/gte.net/jfoster/tapers.html Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from eestlow@srminc.com Fri Sep 4 10:50:29 1998 86256675.0057A67B ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:57:22 -0500 Subject: RE: One piece tapers 3-5 wt AJ Thramer also has one, a 4' - 4", I believe.-Ed from ljrp@penn.com Fri Sep 4 10:55:55 1998 Subject: Re: Jay Harvey Rod Sounds great; have fun. I will contact Mike don't forget to rotate your rodwhenfighting those bruisers (that's what the older guys used to say to do so astonot develop a fishing set) nice to talk CheersDick bob maulucci wrote: Dick,I don't Rush is near Buffalo. But, if you get up to the Buffalo area, thefallsalmon and brown trout fishing is going to take off in the next month orso. Ican't wait to try a Winston 8wt I just got! Yeaha!But seriously, you could contact Michael Sinclair for more info. Heseemed verynice every time I had a question.Bob -----------------------------Bob Maulucci218 Wallace Ave.Buffalo, New York 14216716-836-8297 http://www.buffnet.net/~bobbo/welcome.htm "Establish a better reputation for honesty in your home community; thenyou wonthave to bring in dead fish to prove that your not a liar." - Kenneth Reid from DEMARALON@aol.com Fri Sep 4 11:21:56 1998 Subject: Re: growing your own bamboo To All who would want to try grow TONKIN for rod making: I recommend thatyou obtain a copy ofLuis Marden's book THE ANGLER'S BAMBOO.`i The appendix contains the McClure report in very complete detail onhow The CHINESE have planted, grown ,harvested andprocessed TONKIN for the rodmakers and other markets for the past 100 yearsor more. BEST WISHES and GOOD LUCK HAROLD DEMAREST P.S. You can obtain Luis' book by calling Tony Lyons @ 1-800 836-0510,Ext 39, or faxing @ 212 929-1836 (Lyons and Burford, 31 West 21stStreet, NYC10010.)Believe the cost is $25.00. from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri Sep 4 12:10:39 1998 (5.0.1458.49) does anybody have a silk, about 5wt, they would be willing to sell. I'velooked all over Seattle and have been unable to locate one. Help!!! from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Sep 4 13:05:49 1998 Subject: RE:Jay Harvey Rod RO>Dick,RO>I don't Rush is near Buffalo. But, if you get up to the Buffalo area, thefaRO>But seriously, you could contact Michael Sinclair for more info. Heseemed vRO>Bob -----------------------------RO>Bob MaulucciRO>218 Wallace Ave.RO>Buffalo, New York 14216RO>716-836-8297 Bob, I grew up in the WNY area - Orchard Park/Hamburg area. (or just down theroad from the Bills stadium) Don Burns from rcurry@top.monad.net Fri Sep 4 16:17:11 1998 Subject: Re: Coffey, Patrick W wrote: does anybody have a silk, about 5wt, they would be willing to sell. I'velooked all over Seattle and have been unable to locate one. Help!!!Patrick,Have you triedhttp://www.belvoirdale.com/silklines.html ?If you decide to spend $200+ for one of these lines, please send us areport on their quality. I tried to borrow one for an article on SilkLines for Bamboo Fly Rod, but never got an answer. Alas, they don't seemto make them in WF.Len Codella has the Phoenix lines for a $189. You can reach him at.Best regards,Reed from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Fri Sep 4 18:34:39 1998 via smap(4.1) Subject: RE: 2 pc vs. 3 pc Here's my opinions. Various configurations allow you to justify more rods in the stable, right? For example, with a 7' 4wt. rod you need a two piece overhead compartment of an airplane for those weekend getaways toexotic places. Perhaps even a four piece version that will slide into your backpack to avoid catching branches when on the trail. Finally for the fly fisher who has it all, a five piece version that can be smuggled past your spouse by tucking it into your sock under your pantleg for those family vacations when you promised fly fishing would not be a distraction. Of the rods I have fished and cast I prefer two piece rods over three piece rods. Two piece rods are lighter, and the bamboo is not inhibited by an extra ferrule area. Three piece rods have an advantage in portability, especially with airline travel or pack in trips. I think some fly fishers like the tradition of a three piece rod, and we all know that short classic era three piece rods are rare in the marketplace so there is probably a lean toward the items that seem scarce even if they are contemporary versions. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from maxs@geocities.co.jp Fri Sep 4 19:45:04 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA24989 for; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 09:44:58 +0900 (JST) Subject: Straightening the tip after glueing Hello list members, A topic for straightening twisted tip.I had difficulties to make a tip section straighten after glueing itusing Garrison's binder. Since tip is especially soft, the usage of Garrison binder with a rather heavier weight caused thetip be twistedwhile binding with glue. Since tip is thin enough, the efforts to correct the twist causedthe twisted portion to be more twisted easily toward opposite side and its shape became wavedlikezig-zag. Since my father was a tailor and I recalled my memory that he was pressing the clothes by iron tofinalize the surface of the jacket.Then, I pressed the zig-zag tip by electric iron with the highestheat setting over each flat of the twisted tip. It worked!Looking at the twisted portion carefully and ran the iron slowly overthe same flat trying to keep the same flat upward by the other hand (untwisting), the tip is straightenedperfectly. I applied the same thing on to the flat of butt, but it worked partly since it seems too thick foriron. The slow (longer) bend could not be straightened completely. Theportion had to be straightened hand or a leverage. The above is done after the binding thread, the dried gleu and thesurface of the enamel is filed out.I used a piece of straight wood (2 foot length) as an iron mat. Iron iseffective formid section too for 3 pieces. Iron works mainly on thin portion. Now I am pressing the planedsections by iron on the planing form in order to make each piece of sections be straight as much as possible before finalplaning and glueing. I hope this might help similar level of builder to me. Any comment and advice please, if there is more effective or easier wayespecially to straighten the butt section. Max Satohan Oriental builder from bobbo@buffnet.net Fri Sep 4 23:36:04 1998 bybuffnet4.buffnet.net (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA27439 for via smap(V2.0) Subject: RE:Jay Harvey Rod Don,One of the nice things about Buffalo being a drinking town with a footballproblem, is that the streams are often abandoned on Sundays. The fallhere isvery good. 7-8 lb browns are pretty common and the chinook salmon run15lbs to??? I mean big scary fish.Take care,Bob Bob, I grew up in the WNY area - Orchard Park/Hamburg area. (or just down theroad from the Bills stadium) Don Burns from bobbo@buffnet.net Fri Sep 4 23:39:35 1998 bybuffnet4.buffnet.net (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA27888 for via smap(V2.0) Subject: Re: lines Speaking of lines...has anyone tried the Mackenzie Bamboo lines? I've seenacouple of ads, but I am hesitant. (i know they're not silk, but are theygood?)Thanks,Bob At 05:20 PM 9/4/98 -0400, you wrote:Coffey, Patrick W wrote: does anybody have a silk, about 5wt, they would be willing to sell. I'velooked all over Seattle and have been unable to locate one. Help!!!Patrick,Have you triedhttp://www.belvoirdale.com/silklines.html ?If you decide to spend $200+ for one of these lines, please send us areport on their quality. I tried to borrow one for an article on SilkLines for Bamboo Fly Rod, but never got an answer. Alas, they don't seemto make them in WF.Len Codella has the Phoenix lines for a $189. You can reach him at.Best regards,Reed from ragnarig@integrityol.com Sat Sep 5 00:07:31 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A930172A004C; Fri, 04 Sep 1998 22:16:32 PDT Subject: Re: 2 pc vs. 3 pc Dear Chris Several good points. And multi-section rods definitely have their uses. I must, however, offer a different approach to a couple of these problems.The first thing is: develop a bad limp. Besides being the world's mosteffective means of birth control, this will enable you to get a cane/crutch.Mine is about 4 1/2 feet long, tubular aluminum with a custom fittedhandle,a thick neoprene foot and an underarm cradle fitted to the clever screw-oncap. Everybody knows what is inside the tube, but it's difficult for my goodChristian cohabitants to begrudge a poor old cripple the means to hobbleover steep, rock strewn mountain trails, especially if these trails are 3 or4 miles long. Flight attendants have this much in common with Christians.They will be extremely cool so long as you don't use your "crutch" to clearthe aisle well before the plane is stopped at the Juneau terminal. Exactly how you explain yourself after disappearing into the interior ofNorthern British Columbia for a few weeks will have to be the subject of afuture dissertation; and I'll probably need some money for that one. Butit'd be well to start developing a history of sleepwalking as soon aspossible. And get a longer coat. Dead serious,Davy -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: 2 pc vs. 3 pc Here's my opinions. Various configurations allow you to justify morerodsin the stable, right? For example, with a 7' 4wt. rod you need a two piece overhead compartment of an airplane for those weekend getaways toexoticplaces. Perhaps even a four piece version that will slide into yourbackpack to avoid catching branches when on the trail. Finally for the flyfisher who has it all, a five piece version that can be smuggled past yourspouse by tucking it into your sock under your pantleg for those familyvacations when you promised fly fishing would not be a distraction. Of the rods I have fished and cast I prefer two piece rods over three piecerods. Two piece rods are lighter, and the bamboo is not inhibited by anextra ferrule area. Three piece rods have an advantage in portability,especially with airline travel or pack in trips. I think some fly fisherslike the tradition of a three piece rod, and we all know that short classicera three piece rods are rare in the marketplace so there is probably alean toward the items that seem scarce even if they are contemporaryversions. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from anglport@con2.com Sat Sep 5 06:34:36 1998 Subject: Re: 2 pc vs. 3 pc Davy,You're crazy............I LIKE that in my friends and acquaintances! How doyou portage your scotch, in a catheter bag? It's pretty early in the morninghere and I must be a bit groggy; why is a bad limp "the most effectivemeansof birth control"? As to the wandering-off excuse, it might be worth a fewpfennigs to build a data base on that subject for when we might need aquickretort to an inquiring spouse.Keep on hobbling,Art At 10:05 PM 9/4/98 -0700, you wrote:Dear Chris Several good points. And multi-section rods definitely have their uses. I must, however, offer a different approach to a couple of these problems.The first thing is: develop a bad limp. Besides being the world's mosteffective means of birth control, this will enable you to get acane/crutch.Mine is about 4 1/2 feet long, tubular aluminum with a custom fittedhandle,a thick neoprene foot and an underarm cradle fitted to the clever screw-oncap. Everybody knows what is inside the tube, but it's difficult for my goodChristian cohabitants to begrudge a poor old cripple the means to hobbleover steep, rock strewn mountain trails, especially if these trails are 3or4 miles long. Flight attendants have this much in common withChristians.They will be extremely cool so long as you don't use your "crutch" to clearthe aisle well before the plane is stopped at the Juneau terminal. Exactly how you explain yourself after disappearing into the interior ofNorthern British Columbia for a few weeks will have to be the subject ofafuture dissertation; and I'll probably need some money for that one. Butit'd be well to start developing a history of sleepwalking as soon aspossible. And get a longer coat. Dead serious,Davy -----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL Date: Friday, September 04, 1998 4:48 PMSubject: RE: 2 pc vs. 3 pc Here's my opinions. Various configurations allow you to justify morerodsin the stable, right? For example, with a 7' 4wt. rod you need a twopiece overhead compartment of an airplane for those weekend getaways toexoticplaces. Perhaps even a four piece version that will slide into yourbackpack to avoid catching branches when on the trail. Finally for theflyfisher who has it all, a five piece version that can be smuggled past yourspouse by tucking it into your sock under your pantleg for those familyvacations when you promised fly fishing would not be a distraction. Of the rods I have fished and cast I prefer two piece rods over threepiecerods. Two piece rods are lighter, and the bamboo is not inhibited by anextra ferrule area. Three piece rods have an advantage in portability,especially with airline travel or pack in trips. I think some fly fisherslike the tradition of a three piece rod, and we all know that shortclassicera three piece rods are rare in the marketplace so there is probably alean toward the items that seem scarce even if they are contemporaryversions. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from ljrp@penn.com Sat Sep 5 08:12:29 1998 Subject: Re: Jay Harvey Rod Next to the STEELERS the Bills are my favorite team!! Those fish do soundscaryI'm afraid I would have to use PLASTIC to tame them. Nice to talk Regards Dick bob maulucci wrote: Don,One of the nice things about Buffalo being a drinking town with afootballproblem, is that the streams are often abandoned on Sundays. The fallhere isvery good. 7-8 lb browns are pretty common and the chinook salmon run15lbs to??? I mean big scary fish.Take care,Bob Bob, I grew up in the WNY area - Orchard Park/Hamburg area. (or just downtheroad from the Bills stadium) Don Burns from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Sep 5 09:05:45 1998 Subject: Re: Straightening the tip after glueing Max Good recovery from a problem. But you may want to read my article on mastering the Garrison binderonthe RodmakersHomepage - it could help you eliminate the twists. I have had goodfeedback from anumber of rodmakers that it has helped a lot and solved their problems and they nowget theresults they had hoped for. If you have a well tuned binder you will have very little straighteningtodo. I have just finished a rod with a very fine tip of .052 and it came out just fine andneededno straightening. Chris On Sat, 05 Sep 1998 09:45:49 +0900, Max Satoh wrote: Hello list members, A topic for straightening twisted tip.I had difficulties to make a tip section straighten after glueing itusing Garrison's binder. Since tip is especially soft, the usage of Garrison binder with a rather heavier weight caused thetip be twistedwhile binding with glue. Since tip is thin enough, the efforts to correct the twist causedthe twisted portion to be more twisted easily toward opposite side and its shape became wavedlikezig-zag. Since my father was a tailor and I recalled my memory that he was pressing the clothes by iron tofinalize the surface of the jacket.Then, I pressed the zig-zag tip by electric iron with the highestheat setting over each flat of the twisted tip. It worked!Looking at the twisted portion carefully and ran the iron slowly overthe same flat trying to keep the same flat upward by the other hand (untwisting), the tip is straightenedperfectly. I applied the same thing on to the flat of butt, but it worked partly since it seems too thick foriron. The slow (longer) bend could not be straightened completely. Theportion had to be straightened hand or a leverage. The above is done after the binding thread, the dried gleu and thesurface of the enamel is filed out.I used a piece of straight wood (2 foot length) as an iron mat. Iron iseffective formid section too for 3 pieces. Iron works mainly on thin portion. Now I am pressing the planedsections by iron on the planing form in order to make each piece of sections be straight as much as possible before finalplaning and glueing. I hope this might help similar level of builder to me. Any comment and advice please, if there is more effective or easier wayespecially to straighten the butt section. Max Satohan Oriental builder Regards Chris from mwoodruf@globalnet.co.uk Sat Sep 5 10:32:28 1998 Subject: Updated Web Page With Photo's boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BDD8EA.1A558100" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BDD8EA.1A558100 Hi All,I have eventually managed to get my web pages into some sort of =order, on them you will find photo's of all the products Barry Grantham =of Lincoln has provided me with, if anyone is interested. There are also =a couple of links to companies who sepcialise in selling books on =fishing etc. Regards Mick.W www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~mwoodruf ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BDD8EA.1A558100 Hi All, eventually = get my web pages into some sort of order, on them you will find photo's = the products Barry Grantham of Lincoln has provided me with, if anyone = interested. There are also a couple of links to companies who sepcialise = selling books on fishing etc. Regards Mick.W www.users.globalnet.c=o.uk/~mwoodruf ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BDD8EA.1A558100-- from robert.kope@MCI2000.com Sat Sep 5 15:51:17 1998 with SMTP id forRODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu;Sat, 5 Sep 1998 20:40:09 +0000 (GMT) Subject: steel planing forms boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDD8D2.03400160" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDD8D2.03400160 I just finished my final planing forms following Thomas Penrose's =instructions and wanted to offer a few comments and a question. First - thank you Thomas. Without your excellent illustrated =instructions I would not have attempted constructing my own planing =forms. They turned out great. I did opt for a couple of Lawrence =Waldron's modifications; I used cap screws in place of shoulder bolts =and put 1/4" dowels at the stations instead of 3/16" dowels between the =stations. I did come across one piece of advice in the archives from several list =members when Thomas was making his planing forms last summer. This =advice didn't make it into the instructions, and it is important for =metalworking novices like me. I came across this about 24 hours after I =needed it: DON'T USE CHEAPO TAPS from THE HARDWARE STORE! They aretoo =brittle to tap threads in steel, and will rapidly fatigue and break. =(Also, the pilot hole for 5/16 x 18 threads should be 17/64", or a "G" =bit, rather than 1/4") I made this mistake and broke a tap off in hole #7 out of 30. I got a =tap extractor and broke the tines off of the extractor trying to back =the tap out from the bottom. This shattered the bottom of the tap and I =was left with about 1/4 inch piece of tap in the center of the hole. I =called a local machinist and was told there was little he could do that =I couldn't. His recommendation was to just pound on the tap with a =punch and a hammer. The tap was so brittle that this shattered the tap =and I had it out in a couple of minutes. However, there was a chip of =tap #1 lodged in the threads. This destroyed the threads on tap #2. I =got all the way to hole #10 before breaking tap #3. I was able to get =this one out with the tap extractor. That was when I discovered the =advice about hardware store taps in the archives. I got a good tap and =finished the remaining 20 holes without incident. Now for the question: What do you do about rust on the forms? I =already have rusty fingerprints all over my forms. I don't want to oil =the forms since that will contaminate the splines and impair adhesion =when they're glued up. Do you just live with the rust, or is my body =chemistry incompatible with steel? Thanks in advance for any advice. Robert Kope ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDD8D2.03400160 I just finished my final planing = Thomas Penrose's instructions and wanted to offer a few comments and question. excellent illustrated instructions I would not have attempted = Lawrence Waldron's modifications; I used cap screws in place of shoulder= and put 1/4" dowels at the stations instead of 3/16" dowels = the stations. I did come across one piece of = archives from several list members when Thomas was making his planing= 1/4") I made this mistake and broke atap = bottom of the tap and I was left with about 1/4 inch piece of tap in the = the remaining 20 holes without incident. do = the rust, or is my body chemistry incompatible with steel? Thanks in advance for any =advice. Robert =Kope ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDD8D2.03400160-- from lblan@provide.net Sat Sep 5 16:12:10 1998 Subject: RE: steel planing forms boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDD8F0.22C18360" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDD8F0.22C18360 Well........ I hope this reply isn't going out in html format...... hate towaste the bandwidth. Here goes..... The advice to break the tap out is good.... this method is endorsed in justabout every gunsmithing book I've read. I keep my forms waxed, using a high quality wax. I wipe them down when Iputthem back into the tube, and so far haven't had any real problems. I called a local machinist and was told there was little he could do that Icouldn't. His recommendation was to just pound on the tap with a punchand ahammer. The tap was so brittle that this shattered the tap and I hadit out in a couple of minutes. Now for the question:What do you do about rust on the forms? I already have rusty fingerprintsall over my forms. I don't want to oil the forms since that willcontaminatethe splines and impair adhesion when they're glued up. Do you just livewiththe rust, or is my body chemistry incompatible with steel? ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDD8F0.22C18360 Well........ I hope this reply isn't going out in html = to waste the bandwidth. Here goes..... advice to break the tap out is good.... this method is endorsed in just = every gunsmithing book I've read. my forms waxed, using a high quality wax. I wipe them down when I put = into the tube, and so far haven't had any real =problems. called a local machinist and was told there was little he could do that = couldn't. His recommendation was to just pound on the tap with a punch = hammer. The tap was so brittle that this shattered the tap and I had = in a couple of minutes. the question: you do about rust on the forms? I already have rusty fingerprints all = forms. I don't want to oil the forms since that will contaminate the = impair adhesion when they're glued up. Do you just live with the rust, = body chemistry incompatible with =steel? ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDD8F0.22C18360-- from maxs@geocities.co.jp Sat Sep 5 18:34:35 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA26124 for; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 08:34:31 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Straightening the tip after glueing Chris and Rick, Thanks both of you for nice advices to tune Garrison type binder.I looked into the rodmakers page and found the articles and gifs ofyours.I also appreciate your contribution to rodmakers page on your articlesand tapers. Rodmakers page is really the center of crafter's world. I hope I can be free from the twist next time in binding by youradvices.. Best Regards,-- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jp from stpete@netten.net Sat Sep 5 21:06:20 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA11589 for Subject: Re: steel planing forms Robert and list members about to make forms, I made forms also and was fortunate enough to get good advice frommachinists prior to construction. I was advised and used an "F" drill When drilling the metal, buy good bits and use 'TAP-IT' or some otherquality drilling/tapping/cutting fluid. Use it for tapping as well. Itmakes a huge difference in ease of cutting and drilling. I would second the advice about buying GOOD taps. I had bought a good4- flute tap and a machinist advised that I use a 2-flute. I startedeach hole about a 1/4" in with the 4-flute to make it easier to keep thebit square to the hole and then used the 2-flute tap to cut the threads.WOW! It was much easier with the 2-flute and I rarely had to back up thetap to clear it of cutting debris. In fact, most cuts resulted in longintact spirals of steel being ejected up the tap. This was my firsttime ever to tap and thread steel and I had no problems or brokenthreads or taps. The biggest problem I had was keeping the steel supported squarely whileI was drilling the holes. I had shimmed the vise on the drill press sothat from top to bottom on the forms the holes are square. But as I getnearer the ends of the forms, the supports I used gave a litte under theweight of the 6 foot forms and C-clamps and the angle of the holes isslightly off in the lengthwise direction of the forms, going from 90* inthe center of the forms to about 89* and 91* on either end. Another thing. I was told to drill undersized holes and REAM the dowelpin holes. I wish I had taken this advice. The forms seem accurate andfine, but you can tell the pins have some play in them. Lastly, I resorted to the use of the block and 60* lathe tool I made formy wooden forms ala Bruce Conner (see his FAQ sheet via Rodmakers). Ifound the lathe tool cut well if adjusted frequently so as not to take abit bite and as an added benefit, you only have to set the forms ONCE! If you don't have steel forms and are quaking at the thought of spendingthe $$ for well made ones, this is not difficult work - but it does takesome time. Go for it! Just don't rush and measure twice - cut once. Rick Crenshaw robert.kope wrote: I did come across one piece of advice in the archives from severallist members when Thomas was making his planing forms last summer.This advice didn't make it into the instructions, and it is important after I needed it: DON'T USE CHEAPO TAPS from THE HARDWARE STORE!They are too brittle to tap threads in steel, and will rapidly fatigueand break. (Also, the pilot hole for 5/16 x 18 threads should be17/64", or a "G" bit, rather than 1/4") I made this mistake and broke a tap off in hole #7 out of 30. I got atap extractor and broke the tines off of the extractor trying to backthe tap out from the bottom. This shattered the bottom of the tap andI was left with about 1/4 inch piece of tap in the center of thehole. I called a local machinist and was told there was little hecould do that I couldn't. His recommendation was to just pound on thetap with a punch and a hammer. The tap was so brittle that thisshattered the tap and I had it out in a couple of minutes. However,there was a chip of tap #1 lodged in the threads. This destroyed thethreads on tap #2. I got all the way to hole #10 before breaking tap#3. I was able to get this one out with the tap extractor. That waswhen I discovered the advice about hardware store taps in thearchives. I got a good tap and finished the remaining 20 holeswithout incident. Now for the question: What do you do about rust on the forms? Ialready have rusty fingerprints all over my forms. I don't want tooil the forms since that will contaminate the splines and impairadhesion when they're glued up. Do you just live with the rust, or ismy body chemistry incompatible with steel? Thanks in advance for any advice. Robert Kope from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Sep 6 10:13:24 1998 Subject: Duh Thanks to the help of Larry Blan I have discovered that Hex98 any runsathigher screen resolutions - not 800x600 - hope to have fixed and uploaded-keep posted from gc.williams@MCIONE.com Sun Sep 6 16:47:36 1998 with ESMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 21:47:04 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Test This is a test....only a test.....if this were a real........ from morten@flash.net Sun Sep 6 19:44:12 1998 Subject: Re: Test Johan,It is Quiet because this is laborday weekend. I guess everybdy wentfishing. I'm still in the shop planing bamboo. Morten from Coclapro@aol.com Sun Sep 6 22:00:34 1998 Subject: Re: Test test for what???????????? I think I get an A from skeeter@sky.net Mon Sep 7 00:05:26 1998 Subject: rodmakers list Please unsubscribe from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Sep 7 08:17:08 1998 Subject: Re: Jay Harvey Rod Bob, There used to be a fellow on R.O.F.F. that lived somewhere up in NiagaraCounty - he fished the lower Niagara River for big steelhead. Theysounded just like the fish you talk about too. Where do you go FF'ing - Cattaraugus (SP?) Creek? You should try to find yourself the 9' Heddon 2-3/4F rod taper (or getan original rod), it's a great WF8 rod. Don Burns from bobbo@buffnet.net Mon Sep 7 14:19:13 1998 bybuffnet4.buffnet.net (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA07455 for via smap(V2.0) Subject: Re: Jay Harvey Rod Dear Don:Yes, I have fished both the Niagara and Catt. The Catt is the better fallstream.It is a good producer of wild reproducing rainbows. They are smaller fish,butthey are very healthy and hard fighting. The Catt is very suceptible toblowouts. Unfortuneately, there are more times that it is unfishable thanfishable.(Proof of this is a lack of flyshops in the area.) The Niagara is a great April and May stream. The steeelhead there areferociousfighters because of the strong current there. If you can brave the wading,youcan catch several fish in an outing. Just keep watching for rising waterout ofthe hydroelectric plants dam. The best Fall streams for browns and salmon would be Oak Orchard Creek,18 MileCreek (Burt Dam), Johnson's Creek, and Sandy Creek. The first two arealwayscrowded, and the last two are great if you know where to go. The Catt andJohnsonare the better steelhead producers. The rest are better brown troutfisheries. As for rods, I just got a Winston 9' 2/1 8wt. that I am going to try a littleonsome of the brown and steelhead streams. I think it will be perfect forswingingthe spey flies that I like to fish. I will have to get the Heddon taper totry. Iam building my first rod this fall. It might be a good choice. Thanks,Bob At 06:16 AM 9/7/98 -0600, you wrote:Bob, There used to be a fellow on R.O.F.F. that lived somewhere up in NiagaraCounty - he fished the lower Niagara River for big steelhead. Theysounded just like the fish you talk about too. Where do you go FF'ing - Cattaraugus (SP?) Creek? You should try to find yourself the 9' Heddon 2-3/4F rod taper (or getan original rod), it's a great WF8 rod. Don Burns -----------------------------Bob Maulucci218 Wallace Ave.Buffalo, New York 14216716-836-8297 http://www.buffnet.net/~bobbo/welcome.htm "Establish a better reputation for honesty in your home community; thenyou wonthave to bring in dead fish to prove that your not a liar." - Kenneth Reid from Fallcreek9@aol.com Mon Sep 7 18:20:48 1998 Subject: Rodbuilder Search List: The following is from Jeff Wagner. If anyone can help, please e-mailmyself or Jeff direct @ JDW Rods@aol.comThanks,RTyree Pennington? If not can you post a request on the listserve to try to findtheguy for me. I just have a question for him. Thanks-jdw from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Sep 7 21:30:13 1998 Subject: Re: steel planing forms Robert,Another trick to remember if you ever braek off a tap.If you can get a little bit of Nitric Acid.Use an eye dropper,Drop a few drops into the hole,enough to cover the piece ofbroken tap.Let it sit for a few minutes.The nitric acid eatssteel.The harder the steel is, the faster it eats it.Being thatthe tap is made of a harder steel than the form,it will eat thetap first.Once the acid has eaten enough of the broken pieceof the tap,you can pick it out of the hole.Rince with alot ofwater to get all the acid out of the hole.I've used this trick more than once when drilling arifle for a scope.,during my thirty years of gunsmithing. Dave LeClairThe Fly and Rod Room from "drobert@agt.net"@agt.net Mon Sep 7 22:57:36 1998 (edtnps04.telusplanet.net release 220 ID# 0-51631U125000L125000S0V35) with SMTP id net Subject: Re: growing your own bamboo Herb Wilburn wrote: I just learned about bamboo rodmaking on the net and I think I might trytomake one. Has anyone tried growing their on bamboo? Would yourecommendthis? when is the right time to cut it? Anything would help. hwilburn@shentel.netunsubcribe from "drobert@agt.net"@agt.net Mon Sep 7 22:57:55 1998 (edtnps04.telusplanet.net release 220 ID# 0-51631U125000L125000S0V35) with SMTP id net Subject: Re: growing your own bamboo Robert Clarke wrote: Herb, this has come up before. Maybe Andy Royer or the Demarests wouldlike to respond, but I would think you are much better off buying what isavailable through one of them. I think you will have a much better resultthan what you could achieve here in the US. Tonkin cane, from what Iunderstand, needs special conditions that other types of bamboo may not,and you might have a hard time finding some to start with. Just mythoughts on it. Let the list know if you give it a try. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Herb Wilburn Subject: growing your own bambooDate: Wednesday, September 02, 1998 4:08 PM I just learned about bamboo rodmaking on the net and I think I mighttrytomake one. Has anyone tried growing their on bamboo? Would yourecommendthis? when is the right time to cut it? Anything would help. hwilburn@shentel.net unsubscribe from "drobert@agt.net"@agt.net Mon Sep 7 22:58:29 1998 (edtnps04.telusplanet.net release 220 ID# 0-51631U125000L125000S0V35) with SMTP id net Subject: Re: Cattanach's Disk Douglas P. Easton wrote: At 09:30 PM 9/1/98 EDT, WayneCatt@aol.com wrote:------------------------- snip-------------------------------------> There are a few known bugs - I haven't programmed in the guide cal'syet- and the ferrule weights - but it can design a rod and it will printgraphs -all on the same gradient scale so that different stress curves can beoverlayed. Eventually there will be CD's available - I have a writer inthebox as I type - but time is a problem in finishing the program - I hope tohave it polished in a month or so.As far as the distribution of Hexrod - it was always intended to be ashareware - program - a while back I even posted the code listing forthe dosversion for those wanting to add personal touches.What the program won't do is stretch stress curves or do multi rods -thatis where I feel human intervention is required. And it will never bepretty -A sort of Jack Pine type. Wayne Will it be possible to enter dimensions or stress at 5" intervals. Itappears theat the present version requires input at 1" intervals which isabit difficult when most tapers are given at 5" stations. Perhaps I didn'tlook hard enough for the appropriate option. -Doug Easton____________(____________|===========================o/ 0 \ / |\__/ \ / Douglas Easton |\ / |\____/ Dpeaston@wzrd.com ||*unsubscribe from "drobert@agt.net"@agt.net Mon Sep 7 22:59:06 1998 (edtnps05.telusplanet.net release 220 ID# 0-51631U125000L125000S0V35) with SMTP id net Subject: Re: growing your own bamboo Paul wrote: -----Original Message-----From: Herb Wilburn Date: Wednesday, September 02, 1998 11:14 PMSubject: growing your own bamboo I just learned about bamboo rodmaking on the net and I think I might trytomake one. Has anyone tried growing their on bamboo? Would yourecommendthis? when is the right time to cut it? Anything would help. hwilburn@shentel.net I had purchased Tonkin plants from a gardner back east (i live in CA). Theygrew quite well, being watered every day. Then because of the canessendingout runners into the lawn, I pulled it out and took it up to Mr. Brandon /Scott rods about 2 years ago. I was told that they have it in a planter bythe shop. When I had the cane, it grew quite well. The plants cost about $35.00apiece. I plan on writing about this experience in more detail, givingsources at a later date, on http://www.Rodbuilding.com. Paul Whitelyunsubscribe from "drobert@agt.net"@agt.net Mon Sep 7 22:59:46 1998 (edtnps05.telusplanet.net release 220 ID# 0-51631U125000L125000S0V35) with SMTP id net Subject: Re: re growing your own bamboo Larry Russett wrote: Buy some cheeper culms to practice splitting.. Then do as the rest of usbuy ONLY THE BEST CANE AND COMPONENTS YOU CAN GET.Your hours of labor demand no less. Larry Russett http://members.tripod.com/~RUSSETTRODS/index.html ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.comunsubscribe from "drobert@agt.net"@agt.net Mon Sep 7 23:00:24 1998 (edtnps04.telusplanet.net release 220 ID# 0-51631U125000L125000S0V35) with SMTP id net Subject: Re: Broke Bamboo Terry L. Kirkpatrick wrote: A.J.Thanks for the reply. Sorry I'm so long in replying to you. Three piece rods seem to have a higher stress level at the ferrulesand it has always helped on mine to put a bit more cane in the rod atthat point. Did you use truncated ferrules? I have had to be extracautious when using them. Sure did. I inspected the break and I believe that the major reason wasusing a Ferrule one size to small. I've repaired the rod, using thelargerferrule and it seems to be holding up just fine. I hope to bring it toSRC. Two piece rods seem to have little troublewith stress at the ferrule as witnessed by the relative rarity of thevarnish seal being broken with just a use or two while three pc rodsalmost always break the varnish seal immediatly. The problem is that ashort 3 pc suffers unless you use trunc ferrules, standard ones seem toeliminate the problem while starting a flat spot in the taper. This is very interesting. I've been doing a lot of thinking about tapersandstress in the last week. Looking at the rod more in the way I'd guessGarrisondid. Right now I'm tending to believe that you can get away with a lot ofstressas long as it's evenly distributed. Most of the problems I've had have beenin areas where stress was the greatest. (around ferrules) I'm wondering if making the rod a "tad" (technical word used by the oldrodmakers. Equal to anything from .001 to .5 depending on the application.)flatter around the ferrules, would let the rod flex more on each side oftheferrule to "get over" the stiffness of the ferrule? I'm not sure I'msayingwhat I mean here. Say, steepen the taper to about 4in in front of the ferrule station, thenflatten the taper at that point. Do the same on the female side. I'm nottalking about Completely flat. I'm suggesting cutting the taper down toabout.50%. What's your experience say? Thesolution seems to be building your own ferrules of the lenghth required from Dave LeClairs tubing. He provides clear instructions with thetubing. Will we get a demo at SRC? In addition, was the taper a modified 2 pc taper? About 1/3 of myproduction is 3 pc rods and I can state positively that they require adifferent taper than 2 pc rods. NO paras! It was a 3p taper, both before and after. I have no Idea what the rodwasoriginally. All three pieces came to me different lengths. I hope this helps a bit. It helps a lot. Much food for thought. Thank you very much. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netunsubscribe from "drobert@agt.net"@agt.net Mon Sep 7 23:00:41 1998 (edtnps04.telusplanet.net release 220 ID# 0-51631U125000L125000S0V35) with SMTP id net Subject: Re: growing your own bamboo Rich Jezioro wrote: Where is the country do you live? I was wondering about the pempaturerangeTonkin can tolerate.ThanksRich Jezioro At 05:30 PM 9/2/98 +0000, you wrote: -----Original Message-----From: Herb Wilburn Date: Wednesday, September 02, 1998 11:14 PMSubject: growing your own bamboo I just learned about bamboo rodmaking on the net and I think I mighttry tomake one. Has anyone tried growing their on bamboo? Would yourecommendthis? when is the right time to cut it? Anything would help. hwilburn@shentel.net I had purchased Tonkin plants from a gardner back east (i live in CA). Theygrew quite well, being watered every day. Then because of the canessendingout runners into the lawn, I pulled it out and took it up to Mr. Brandon /Scott rods about 2 years ago. I was told that they have it in a planterbythe shop. When I had the cane, it grew quite well. The plants cost about $35.00apiece. I plan on writing about this experience in more detail, givingsources at a later date, on http://www.Rodbuilding.com. Paul Whitely *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@ /||/______/_||_________________________________________||/\/ \ > > / \ >unsubscribe from "drobert@agt.net"@agt.net Mon Sep 7 23:01:22 1998 (edtnps04.telusplanet.net release 220 ID# 0-51631U125000L125000S0V35) with SMTP id net Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod magazine. Tim Thorstad wrote: I just talked to Mark at BFF this evening. The issue is late in gettingout. Don't panic (like I did), I belive the reason for the delay isjustified. Tim thorstad@primenet.com -----Original Message-----From: Grhghlndr@aol.com Date: Thursday, September 03, 1998 7:22 PMSubject: Bamboo Flyrod magazine. Has any1 seen or heard about Vol 1 issue 4 yet July /August. Mark anywordordid I miss it .Bret unsubscribe from "drobert@agt.net"@agt.net Mon Sep 7 23:01:50 1998 (edtnps05.telusplanet.net release 220 ID# 0-51631U125000L125000S0V35) with SMTP id net Subject: Re: Granger W/M Victory 8 1/2 ft flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: RO>Still have my first fly rod, purchased for me in 1943. One tip down 3RO>1/2" and other tip down 1/2". New to this and I dont feel compentanttoRO>plane two new tips. Where do I start ? RO>Ray Donnely Ray, Don't worry about the one tip that is 1/2" short. The other tip could bescarf repaired if you can find a suitable donor tip. (hard to do) But a scarf is a bit easier than doing a whole new tip. My $0.02. Don Burnsunsubscribe from "drobert@agt.net"@agt.net Mon Sep 7 23:02:38 1998 (edtnps05.telusplanet.net release 220 ID# 0-51631U125000L125000S0V35) with SMTP id net Subject: Re: Wanted: stainless steel snake guides RMargiotta@aol.com wrote: The Dale Clemens catalog alos has the plain stainless snakes. --Richunsubscribe from "drobert@agt.net"@agt.net Mon Sep 7 23:03:01 1998 (edtnps04.telusplanet.net release 220 ID# 0-51631U125000L125000S0V35) with SMTP id net Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod magazine. Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Darryl,No rub taken sometimes you just happen to be in the right places. I havehadmy advantages too.Bretunsubscribe from "drobert@agt.net"@agt.net Mon Sep 7 23:03:37 1998 (edtnps04.telusplanet.net release 220 ID# 0-51631U125000L125000S0V35) with SMTP id net Subject: Re: Jay Harvey Rod flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: Bob, There used to be a fellow on R.O.F.F. that lived somewhere up in NiagaraCounty - he fished the lower Niagara River for big steelhead. They>sounded just like the fish you talk about too. Where do you go FF'ing - Cattaraugus (SP?) Creek? You should try to find yourself the 9' Heddon 2-3/4F rod taper (or getan original rod), it's a great WF8 rod. Don Burnsunsubscribe from penr0295@eoni.com Mon Sep 7 23:16:55 1998 adam.eoni.com(8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA07965 for ;Mon, 7 Sep1998 21:17:05 -0700 Subject: Don Robertson You need to send your unsubscribe rodmakers messageto this address: listproc@mail.wustl.edu Not to the list itself from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Sep 8 02:33:27 1998 Tue, 8 Sep 1998 15:32:59 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod magazine. On Mon, 7 Sep 1998, Don Robertson wrote: Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Darryl,No rub taken sometimes you just happen to be in the right places. Ihave hadmy advantages too.Bretunsubscribe Hey, is Don Robertson trying to unsubscribe? ;-) /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from mevans@acxiom.com Tue Sep 8 09:04:27 1998 Exchange ServerInternet Mail Connector Version 4.0.996.62) Sep 199809:08:18 -0500 Subject: Michael Chronister 4.0.996.62 Michael Chronister - are you a member of this list? Your name was given to me by my father (Walt Evans) through Colco in Memphis. Are you out there somewhere? Mark Evans from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Tue Sep 8 09:28:11 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Agates & agatines I went over to Russ Gooding's house this weekend and picked up my agateguides that Daryll makes. The workmanship and price are both excellent.I also looked at some old agate tip tops and he was going to talk toDaryll about making some out of agatine that are big enough to handlemodern fly lines, the old ones that he had are the right size for silklines but are are to small for modern lines I think. He is also going tocarry bevelers and some other tools. Hi guys, I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who responded to ourdiscountedofferings of agate and agatine guides. We've already received anumber ofchecks and those orders will ship today. Daryll outdid himself whileI wason my angling vacation and he completed every order which I hadconfirmedbefore I left. The response was overwhelming and we sold out of 8.5mmagates and are nearly out of 9.5 mm agates. We'll have more of both new year. The supply of agatines is large - we shouldn't run outanytimesoon. Daryll was so pleased with the response that he wanted his new"regular"price structure to remain as close as possible to the sale prices.He'sable to do this because guide making is a hobby that only needs to payforthe occasional old creel or a fishing trip down to Oregon. As I saidbefore, his biggest concern is to see every rod maker, amateur and proalike, use "proper" guides on their rods. So long as we have Daryllaround,we'll have affordable agate and agatine guides. After some debate, we have settled into the following pricestructure fororders placed in 1998 (i.e., you can request an order for 1999'sagates andget them at this year's prices provided you get on the list beforeDecember31st). Also, on orders placed at the regular price structure, we'llnow beaccepting credit cards. This was something that was requested severaltimes, but which I had to say no to at the sale prices. 1998 prices on agatines (8.5 mm or 9.5 mm - red):5-9 @ $20.00 each, or10+ @ $16.50 each 1998 prices on agates (8.5 mm or 9.5 mm - our choice of color):5-9 @ $25.00 each, or10+ @ $22.00 each Thanks again, Russ GoodingGolden Witch Rods16829 6th Ave. WestSuite #2BLynnwood, WA 98037gwr@seanet.comhttp://www.goldenwitch.com from dhaftel@att.com Tue Sep 8 09:54:27 1998 sender att.com!dhaftel (att.com!dhaftel); Tue Sep 8 09:33 CDT 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) (5.5.1960.3) Subject: Don Robertson No, I just think his keyboard's stuck keyboard's stuck keyboard's stuck keyboard's stuck keyboard's stuck keyboard's stuck keyboard's stuck keyboard's stuck Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Tony Young [SMTP:tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au]Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 1998 3:33 AM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod magazine. On Mon, 7 Sep 1998, Don Robertson wrote: Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Darryl,No rub taken sometimes you just happen to be in the right places. Ihave hadmy advantages too.Bretunsubscribe Hey, is Don Robertson trying to unsubscribe? ;-) /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from dhaftel@att.com Tue Sep 8 10:53:21 1998 sender att.com!dhaftel (att.com!dhaftel); Tue Sep 8 11:10 EDT 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) (5.5.1960.3) Subject: Catskill Gathering, patterns/conditions Hi all, In prep. for the Catskills gathering (9/12 -9/13) I'm probably going toneedto "tie up a few". Does anyone know what's supposed to be hatching uptherethese days? Also what kinds of water are we fishing? I'm a NY trout fishing "newbie"... Never been there, never done that! Thanks, Dennis Haftel from DrBamboo@aol.com Tue Sep 8 13:07:05 1998 Subject: Re: Catskill Gathering, patterns/conditions Dennis;Touch base with River Essentials 717-635-5900 or e- mailflyfish@riveressentials.com They have a good bunch of guides and giveoutaccurate info. George from phillips@library.ucsf.edu Tue Sep 8 13:40:03 1998 Subject: Growing Bamboo Here is a source for Tonkin bamboo in Sebastopol, Calif: http://home.earthlink.net/~bamboosource/index.htm John H. Phillips III e-mail:phillips@library.ucsf.eduInterlibrary Loan Rm 202Health Sciences LibraryUniversity of California530 Parnassus AveSan Francisco, CA 94143-0840PH: (415) 476-8383FAX: (415) 476-7940 from anglport@con2.com Tue Sep 8 16:18:24 1998 Subject: Re: Wanted: stainless steel snake guides Dear Mr Robertson,If you don't put the "Unsubscribe" in the title, I don't know if thelistserver will kick you off (even if you unsubscribe 500 times!) Art Port At 09:58 AM 9/7/98 -0700, you wrote:RMargiotta@aol.com wrote: The Dale Clemens catalog alos has the plain stainless snakes. --Richunsubscribe from Jdneufs@aol.com Tue Sep 8 18:27:45 1998 Subject: Flys for The Junction Pool Dennis,Upon arrival talk to Bill Fink last year he caughta respectable fish on a#16, I believe, Ausable Wulff. Bill calls this particular fly, trout candy. Atthis time of year it is not a bad place to start. Hope to see you there.Dan from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Sep 8 18:48:41 1998 Subject: Re: Re: SRC Please send me info on this gatering as I am going to try and break away.Bret from ljrp@penn.com Tue Sep 8 18:56:53 1998 Subject: Re: Flys for The Junction Pool Find a copy of latest issue of Md Atlantic Fly Fisher (Free at fly shops) Jdneufs@aol.com wrote: Dennis,Upon arrival talk to Bill Fink last year he caughta respectable fish on a#16, I believe, Ausable Wulff. Bill calls this particular fly, trout candy. Atthis time of year it is not a bad place to start. Hope to see you there.Dan from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Sep 8 20:38:35 1998 Subject: Re: RE:Jay Harvey Rod Same thing with So. Bend when Notre Dame plays I get the river to myselfforKings and Steelhead.bret from saweiss@flash.net Tue Sep 8 23:08:52 1998 Subject: first rod Well, I finished the first one!After almost a year of study, preparation, building equipment & shop, it'sready to go fishing. A 7' 4-wt Sir D taper (thanks, Darryl) that castsbetter than any other bamboo rod I have tried and looks very fine.This list has been instrumental in helping me, especially the archives.Tomorrow it gets tested on some of our New Mexico browns in the Jemezmountains.Steve Weiss from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Tue Sep 8 23:52:52 1998 Subject: Re: Catskill Gathering, patterns/conditions The chill is on. Think streamers. Beautiful moon tonight. Regards, Bob Bob PerryFly Suppliesflysupplies@yahoo.com On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Haftel, Dennis Jay wrote: Hi all, In prep. for the Catskills gathering (9/12 -9/13) I'm probably going toneedto "tie up a few". Does anyone know what's supposed to be hatching uptherethese days? Also what kinds of water are we fishing? I'm a NY trout fishing "newbie"... Never been there, never done that! Thanks, Dennis Haftel from eestlow@srminc.com Wed Sep 9 08:16:15 1998 8625667A.00498826 ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 08:23:09 -0500 Subject: Some random thoughts... I got in to work a bit early this morning and read the overnight postingsand one from Aug. 25th on mentoring advice for a beginner. These promptedthis thought about rod tapers and their actions. Regarding actions of rods, I fish with bamboo and graphite (several types)and, occasionally with my daughter's Winston Stalker series 7'0" 3/4wt,which is fiberglass (and one sweet rod!). Obviously, these all have wildlydifferent actions. I always find that I have trouble with my casting at thebeginning of the evening no matter which rod I'm using ( I fish mostly inthe evening - a combination of favorite time of day and the fact that Ihave to work for a living). By the end of the evening, no matter what rod(read "action") I'm fishing with, I find that the rod has become anextension of my arm. Now I'm sure I have all the typical amateur caster'sbad habits analogous to a golfer's bad habits, but the fact is I cannot putthe fly precisely and accurately where I want it until an hour or two intothe evening. By the end of the evening however, I can place the fly withina 1' - 2' circle repeatedly (out to about 30' perhaps). What does this say about rod actions, and therefore tapers? Blasphemy ofblasphemies, could this mean that taper isn't quite so important after all?Is this like my friend who buys the cheapest beer he can, not because hecan't taste the difference, but because he just doesn't care? Perhaps I'mjust easy to please? I know that I do like to focus on the stream, thefish, the insects, and the birds and not on the fishing tools when I'm onthe stream. Thoughts? Best regards,-Ed Estlow from dhaftel@att.com Wed Sep 9 08:16:31 1998 sender att.com!dhaftel (att.com!dhaftel); Wed Sep 9 07:55 CDT 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) (5.5.1960.3) Subject: RE: first rod Congrats Doc! I think that's going to be the "Baby Boom" rod of all of us "first timers".Did you build a two or three piece version? I'm in the process of atwo-piecer myself. I won't have it done in time for the Catskills, butwhenit does get finished, I'm sure I'll report back! Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Dr. Steven A. Weiss [SMTP:saweiss@flash.net]Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 1998 12:11 AM Subject: first rod Well, I finished the first one!After almost a year of study, preparation, building equipment & shop, it'sready to go fishing. A 7' 4-wt Sir D taper (thanks, Darryl) that castsbetter than any other bamboo rod I have tried and looks very fine.This list has been instrumental in helping me, especially the archives.Tomorrow it gets tested on some of our New Mexico browns in theJemezmountains.Steve Weiss from dhaftel@att.com Wed Sep 9 08:26:13 1998 sender att.com!dhaftel (att.com!dhaftel); Wed Sep 9 08:05 CDT 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) (5.5.1960.3) Subject: RE: Catskill Gathering, patterns/conditions Thanks to all who replied to my question. I have a few of Mr. Betters' Ausable Wulffs tied up already, so I guess I'moff to a pretty good start. ...Probably wouldn't hurt to tie a few morethough. Thanks again, Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Haftel, Dennis Jay Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 1998 11:06 AM Subject: Catskill Gathering, patterns/conditions Hi all, In prep. for the Catskills gathering (9/12 -9/13) I'm probably going toneedto "tie up a few". Does anyone know what's supposed to be hatching uptherethese days? Also what kinds of water are we fishing? I'm a NY trout fishing "newbie"... Never been there, never done that! Thanks, Dennis Haftel from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Sep 9 09:49:20 1998 0500 Subject: Re: SRC Bret,We will meet for the official gathering on Thursday, October 1, atQuarry(Dam Site) Park near Mountain Home, Arkansas. Activities will begin withcoffee at 8:30am, and continue through the evening with demonstrations,etc.Wayne Cattanach is going to conduct a hands-on workshop for beginner'sonFriday and Saturday 8:30-1:30. Mountain Home is 2-2/12 hours north ofLittleRock, or about 4 hours from Memphis. My hopes are that this gatheringwillbe the forerunner of many more in our part of the country in years to come.If you need further details, let me know... Harry Boyd Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Please send me info on this gatering as I am going to try and break away.Bret from WDHCJL@aol.com Wed Sep 9 10:26:41 1998 Subject: Re: first rod In a message dated 98-09-09 00:13:32 EDT, you write: Shouldn't a thank you go to Wayne for his taper? from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Sep 9 10:54:21 1998 via smap(4.1) Subject: Taper Design I wonder how those of you who have developed your own tapers began workon this process. Did you come at it with what you decided was a base taper, made a rod,and then adjusted the taper in various areas and made more rods until you completed one that had the action you were after? Did you take a known taper and adjust it to meet the feel you were after? Since many rods come out somewhat different than the exact taperwritten down before you start, as evidenced by the various versions of a particular rod taper, what constitutes a new taper as opposed to a variation of an existing taper. I'm particularly interested in hearing from those who developed their own tapers through making and adjusting rods rather than via software techniques. Thanks. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Sep 9 11:03:56 1998 Subject: Re: Some random thoughts... In a message dated 9/9/98 8:02:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time,eestlow@srminc.comwrites: What does this say about rod actions, and therefore tapers? I was beginning to wonder about this myself. Because of all the time I' been donating to the BFRM, I've been able to cast quite a few different bamboo rods. I've been finding out that I can adequately cast quite a wide range of different actions,but sometimes there is a rod that just doesn't mesh with my casting style. For example - One of the guys there owns a few E. C. Powells.I can't for the life of me cast those rods without getting shock wavesin the line. I suspect it's because the tip is too soft. But the guy whoowns them swears by them and they are his favorite rods. I usually can't stand the slowness of Orvis cane rods, but I just cast an Orvis Flea that surprised me. Not that it was fast (it wasn't) but how smoothly the line whispered out and laid out arrow straight. But, you are right. Most of the rods I have test casted I have been able to adjust to after a few minutes and have enjoyed casting them. Couldbe why there aren't any rods that don't have their fans. You adjust tothe rods you own. P.S. Sneak preview of the new BFRM web page. It will be announced in the next issue, and is still under construction, new info has to be added,but I got it working. Don't be disappointed, I still have a lot to add, thepicturegallery (one picture so far) has a picture of a Golden Trout I caught Icoupleof weeks ago - I released it and it swam off, and a rod I made.www.thebambooflyrod.com Darryl from RMargiotta@aol.com Wed Sep 9 11:40:19 1998 Subject: RPM of motors for dip tubes A quick survey: What are the RPMs of the motors you use for your dip tube? Thanks. --Rich from gwr@seanet.com Wed Sep 9 12:21:46 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA27879 for; Wed, Subject: Royer's Cane boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00A8_01BDDBDC.5683ACC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00A8_01BDDBDC.5683ACC0 Hi guys, I just wanted to publicly compliment Andy Royer on his cane. YesterdayI met him at his warehouse to pick up nine bales of "A" cane from his mostrecent shipment. Even though I was there in person, I did not get to cherrypick his bales. This is a two-fold compliment to Andy. First, he's anhonest dealer. When you order, you get what comes off the top of the pile.Second, I couldn't ask for better cane than that which was on top of thepile when I happened to make it down to his warehouse.The cane has very little mold. Of the two bales I've ripped into sofar, there is no appreciable mold at all. Holding pieces of cane up to thelight I noticed that Andy had bored a hole through the internodal dams topromote even drying. I suspect that this is why there was so very littlesplitting of culms I received, even though they've sat in a warehousethrough a relatively hot Seattle summer. The color was good - the culmshave a more even straw color than that of the previous shipment and thewater marks were minimal. By the time you remove the enamel you'll haveexceptionally clean cane. Furthermore, because Andy got this canewithoutslash marks he didn't have to remove the bottom meter of each culm, thuseach culm is heavier, with greater depth of power fibers, than that of hisfirst shipment. No two ways about it, these bales are heavy and thatbodeswell for rod making. Driving the twenty miles back to my shop I literallycrushed the front bar on my Jeep's factory roof rack due to the weight ofthe bales. Now I've got an excuse to buy a real roof rack. Russ ------=_NextPart_000_00A8_01BDDBDC.5683ACC0 name="Golden Witch Rods.vcf" filename="Golden Witch Rods.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDN:Gooding;John;R.FN:Golden Witch RodsORG:Golden Witch RodsTITLE:Rod MakerTEL;WORK;VOICE:(425) 787- 6599TEL;PAGER;VOICE:noneTEL;WORK;FAX:noneADR;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A;Lynnwood;WA;98037;USALABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A=3D0D=3D0ALynnwood, WA =98037=3D0D=3D0AUSAURL:http://www.goldenwitch.comEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:gwr@seanet.comEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_00A8_01BDDBDC.5683ACC0-- from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Sep 9 12:22:11 1998 (modemcable224.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: first rod Is that one of the tapers in Cattanach's book? I'm at the stage of choosingmy first taper. Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: first rod In a message dated 98-09-09 00:13:32 EDT, you write: Shouldn't a thank you go to Wayne for his taper? from ljrp@penn.com Wed Sep 9 12:28:14 1998 Subject: Re: RPM of motors for dip tubes Check in Garrisons book or get a nice guy to but it on the site. I willlater.......... busy putting on a garage door opener (Am I Lucky or What??"") RMargiotta@aol.com wrote: A quick survey: What are the RPMs of the motors you use for your diptube? Thanks. --Rich from LambersonW@missouri.edu Wed Sep 9 13:51:11 1998 (5.5.1960.3) Subject: RE: RPM of motors for dip tubes Rich - I use a 4 rpm motor. However, it seems to me the important thing isthe rate of withdrawal. That can be adjusted by the varying thediameter of axle attached to the motor or by setting up a block andtackle arrangement with a couple of pulleys. I use a withdrawal rate of4 inches per minute. Bill LambersonColumbia, MO -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 1998 11:40 AM Subject: RPM of motors for dip tubes A quick survey: What are the RPMs of the motors you use Thanks. --Rich from CALucker@aol.com Wed Sep 9 14:08:31 1998 Subject: Re: RPM of motors for dip tubes In a message dated 9/9/98 9:44:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time,RMargiotta@aol.comwrites: 1725 quarter horsepower into a 900 to 1 gear reducer into a bunch ofbelts sothat I withdraw at 1.2 inches per minute with the Italian varnish calledSpitani. The 900 to 1 gear reducer came from a coffee shop. They used it to spinthepie by the cash register. Chris Lucker from phillips@library.ucsf.edu Wed Sep 9 15:31:41 1998 Subject: Cleaning/Reconditioning OLD Silk Lines I have a couple of old (we're talkin' maybe 50-60 years) silk lines that Iwould like to clean off and recondition.Could anyone point me toward a source of information on how to go aboutthis?Thanks in advance, John H. Phillips III e-mail:phillips@library.ucsf.eduInterlibrary Loan Rm 202Health Sciences LibraryUniversity of California530 Parnassus AveSan Francisco, CA 94143-0840PH: (415) 476-8383FAX: (415) 476-7940 from stpete@netten.net Wed Sep 9 15:57:41 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA14317 for Subject: Unused, in the box HCH line I have a never used, in-the-box, untouched silk HCH line. The box andspool are in very good condition and reads 'IVANHOE by Cortland LineCo., Premium Silk, Oil Impregnated, HCH, 30 yds'. What I want is a GOOD, INTACT 4 or 5 wt (HFH, HFG, HEH, HEG) to fish. Questions: a. Is the line I have worth more as a collectible, or should I destroythe collectability and fish it? I don't care to 'collect' any stuff Idon't fish with. b. Anyone want to trade what I WANT for what I GOT? Assuming thevalues are roughly equal. Comments? Rick from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Wed Sep 9 16:03:58 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id QAA17528 for (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id QAA06476 for ; Wed, 9 Sep1998 16:03:56 Subject: Re: Cleaning/Reconditioning OLD Silk Lines On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, John H. Phillips III wrote: I have a couple of old (we're talkin' maybe 50-60 years) silk lines that Iwould like to clean off and recondition.Could anyone point me toward a source of information on how to go aboutthis?Thanks in advance, John H. Phillips III e-mail:phillips@library.ucsf.eduInterlibrary Loan Rm 202Health Sciences LibraryUniversity of California530 Parnassus AveSan Francisco, CA 94143-0840PH: (415) 476-8383FAX: (415) 476-7940 Long ago silk line re-finishing was discussed on this list at somelength, I'm sure the archives can be mined for several recipies. Since then I've run across another formula, in H. G. Tapply's "TackleTinkering" (1946), which is a little different. Maybe it will be ofuse to someone. The book also discusses fixing small breaks in thefinish, splicing, etc. The process will take you all winter, and you probably should extinguish all smoking materials before starting: Begin quote----- First, the old finish must be removed. There are several agentsthat will do it, including alcohol, gasoline, benzene, naphtha, andcommercial paint and varnish removers. Alcohol and gasoline seem towork equally well. Commercial removers will do the job, but there isdanger in permitting the liquid to soak into the fabric of the line,damaging it. Stretch the line tightly between wooden pegs spaced as far apart aspossible - a large attic offers the best opportunity for this; then dipa clean rag into the remover and begin rubbing. Gradually the oldfinish will disappear, exposing the fabric core. Continue until allthe finish is off. It will take you somewhat longer to do this than itdid to read these directions....There are any number of line-dressing formulas, but the principalingredients in all of them are linseed oil and varnish. FredHollender's, which I have used with excellent results, calls for ahalf-and-half solution of mastic varnish and linseed oil. You can buythe mastic varnish at any artist's supply store. Mixup only enough of the formula to give the line one application, asthe mixture becomes gummy after a while and cannot be used again. Rubthe dressing into the line with a clean cloth, letting the fabric soakup as much of the solution as it will hold...Then allow the line to dry At least four or five coats, and possibly even more, will be needed tobuild up a smooth surface...If the line feels sticky to the touch,allow it a longer time to dry between dressings. If it fails to drycompletely within a couple of weeks, increase the linseed oil and cutdown the varnish to about 60-40. After the final dressing, allow the line plenty of time to drythoroughly. Then, while it is still hanging, dress it with a coat ofwax applied with a soft cloth and rubbed down until the surface issmooth and glassy.-------------End quote......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from eestlow@srminc.com Wed Sep 9 16:15:36 1998 8625667A.00756B45 ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:22:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Cleaning/Reconditioning OLD Silk Lines Darryl Hayasheda also has a technique which I believe is going to be in anupcoming issue of The Bamboo Fly Rod. -Ed from ljrp@penn.com Wed Sep 9 16:17:35 1998 Subject: Re: Cleaning/Reconditioning OLD Silk Lines Just a wild thought but maybe McClane's Ency?? Frank Stetzer wrote: On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, John H. Phillips III wrote: I have a couple of old (we're talkin' maybe 50-60 years) silk lines thatIwould like to clean off and recondition.Could anyone point me toward a source of information on how to goabout this?Thanks in advance, John H. Phillips III e-mail:phillips@library.ucsf.eduInterlibrary Loan Rm 202Health Sciences LibraryUniversity of California530 Parnassus AveSan Francisco, CA 94143-0840PH: (415) 476-8383FAX: (415) 476-7940 Long ago silk line re-finishing was discussed on this list at somelength, I'm sure the archives can be mined for several recipies. Since then I've run across another formula, in H. G. Tapply's "TackleTinkering" (1946), which is a little different. Maybe it will be ofuse to someone. The book also discusses fixing small breaks in thefinish, splicing, etc. The process will take you all winter, and youprobably should extinguish all smoking materials before starting: Begin quote----- First, the old finish must be removed. There are several agentsthat will do it, including alcohol, gasoline, benzene, naphtha, andcommercial paint and varnish removers. Alcohol and gasoline seem towork equally well. Commercial removers will do the job, but there isdanger in permitting the liquid to soak into the fabric of the line,damaging it. Stretch the line tightly between wooden pegs spaced as far apart aspossible - a large attic offers the best opportunity for this; then dipa clean rag into the remover and begin rubbing. Gradually the oldfinish will disappear, exposing the fabric core. Continue until allthe finish is off. It will take you somewhat longer to do this than itdid to read these directions....There are any number of line-dressing formulas, but the principalingredients in all of them are linseed oil and varnish. FredHollender's, which I have used with excellent results, calls for ahalf-and-half solution of mastic varnish and linseed oil. You can buythe mastic varnish at any artist's supply store. Mixup only enough of the formula to give the line one application, asthe mixture becomes gummy after a while and cannot be used again. Rubthe dressing into the line with a clean cloth, letting the fabric soakup as much of the solution as it will hold...Then allow the line to dry At least four or five coats, and possibly even more, will be needed tobuild up a smooth surface...If the line feels sticky to the touch,allow it a longer time to dry between dressings. If it fails to drycompletely within a couple of weeks, increase the linseed oil and cutdown the varnish to about 60-40. After the final dressing, allow the line plenty of time to drythoroughly. Then, while it is still hanging, dress it with a coat ofwax applied with a soft cloth and rubbed down until the surface issmooth and glassy.-------------End quote......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Wed Sep 9 16:33:40 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id QAA24655 for (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id QAA18895 for ; Wed, 9 Sep1998 16:33:35 Subject: "Theoretical" silk line question As I understand it, the major difference between silk and the currentsynthetic lines is that silk has a thin, even coating over a taperedcore, while a synthethic line has a thick, tapered coating over a thin,uniform core. If this is so wouldn't it be possible to make a line with a taperedcore and thin coating like a silk line, but with a synthetic core thatwould be more durable? A line made like this should handle like a silkline, I'd think. It might cost more than $40 but not $180 like a newsilk line. I would be surprised if lines like this were not madecommercially sometime in the 40's or 50's when synthetics were newand real silk was scarce. Any reason they couldn't be made again?......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from ljrp@penn.com Wed Sep 9 16:39:09 1998 Subject: Re: "Theoretical" silk line question Silk has more mass and less diameter for a given weight, so less airresistance?? Frank Stetzer wrote: As I understand it, the major difference between silk and the currentsynthetic lines is that silk has a thin, even coating over a taperedcore, while a synthethic line has a thick, tapered coating over a thin,uniform core. If this is so wouldn't it be possible to make a line with a taperedcore and thin coating like a silk line, but with a synthetic core thatwould be more durable? A line made like this should handle like a silkline, I'd think. It might cost more than $40 but not $180 like a newsilk line. I would be surprised if lines like this were not madecommercially sometime in the 40's or 50's when synthetics were newand real silk was scarce. Any reason they couldn't be made again?......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from eestlow@srminc.com Wed Sep 9 16:46:33 1998 8625667A.00783FD3 ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:53:26 -0500 Subject: Re: "Theoretical" silk line question Silk would have the same mass for a given weight - mass is whatgeneratesweight in the presence of gravity. Smaller diameter, though, I believe.-Ed Estlow Dick Fogel on 09/09/98 04:36:03 PM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: "Theoretical" silk line question Silk has more mass and less diameter for a given weight, so less airresistance?? Frank Stetzer wrote: As I understand it, the major difference between silk and the currentsynthetic lines is that silk has a thin, even coating over a taperedcore, while a synthethic line has a thick, tapered coating over a thin,uniform core. If this is so wouldn't it be possible to make a line with a taperedcore and thin coating like a silk line, but with a synthetic core thatwould be more durable? A line made like this should handle like a silkline, I'd think. It might cost more than $40 but not $180 like a newsilk line. I would be surprised if lines like this were not madecommercially sometime in the 40's or 50's when synthetics were newand real silk was scarce. Any reason they couldn't be made again?......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from stpete@netten.net Wed Sep 9 16:53:03 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA18334 for Subject: Re: "Theoretical" silk line question What's the scoop on the old braided nylon lines that were made post-silkand pre-PVC coated lines? I've seen several of them for sale. Rick from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Sep 9 16:54:40 1998 Subject: Re: "Theoretical" silk line question In a message dated 9/9/98 9:34:21 PM, you wrote: Frank - I used to have a line like that. It was a 3 weight DT and came fromBritain. It was part of a group of lines sold under the name Chalkstream.Allthe other weights had a smooth white coating, and weren't much differentthanthe US lines. This one was dark green, and had a slightly pebbley texture.Itwas very nice, much like silk, without all the bother. That was 15 yearsago.Now, the best alternative to silk I know of is an intermediate weight line.Orvis sells a nice one. from FlyTyr@southshore.com Wed Sep 9 16:59:55 1998 (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA27118 for ;Wed, 9 Sep1998 16:01:01 - 0500 Subject: Re: RPM of motors for dip tubes I don't know if this will help or not. I have not built my first complete rodyet so have not used it to varnish one. I used a old electric clock utilizingthe "second" portion of the clock, one rpm. Made a shaft with a 4 3/4"drum.This gives me a withdrawal rate of just over 4" per. min.. It does a goodjobwith a 3' length of 3/8 dowel. It will be a while before I can give the realtest.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com RMargiotta@aol.com wrote: A quick survey: What are the RPMs of the motors you use for your diptube? Thanks. --Rich from channer@hubwest.com Wed Sep 9 17:29:18 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A18F437013A; Wed, 09 Sep 1998 16:30:39 MDT thoughts... At 08:20 AM 9/9/98 -0500, you wrote:I got in to work a bit early this morning and read the overnight postingsand one from Aug. 25th on mentoring advice for a beginner. Thesepromptedthis thought about rod tapers and their actions. Regarding actions of rods, I fish with bamboo and graphite (severaltypes)and, occasionally with my daughter's Winston Stalker series 7'0" 3/4wt,which is fiberglass (and one sweet rod!). Obviously, these all have wildlydifferent actions. I always find that I have trouble with my casting at thebeginning of the evening no matter which rod I'm using ( I fish mostly inthe evening - a combination of favorite time of day and the fact that Ihave to work for a living). By the end of the evening, no matter what rod(read "action") I'm fishing with, I find that the rod has become anextension of my arm. Now I'm sure I have all the typical amateur caster'sbad habits analogous to a golfer's bad habits, but the fact is I cannot putthe fly precisely and accurately where I want it until an hour or two intothe evening. By the end of the evening however, I can place the fly withina 1' - 2' circle repeatedly (out to about 30' perhaps). What does this say about rod actions, and therefore tapers? Blasphemy ofblasphemies, could this mean that taper isn't quite so important afterall?Is this like my friend who buys the cheapest beer he can, not because hecan't taste the difference, but because he just doesn't care? Perhaps I'mjust easy to please? I know that I do like to focus on the stream, thefish, the insects, and the birds and not on the fishing tools when I'm onthe stream. Thoughts? Best regards,-Ed Estlow Ed;I agree completely. I mostly fish the 8' Garrison 212 I built and it alwaysseems just fine to me(I doubt if I am prejudiced), but I have heard andread lots of comments about Garrison designs being too slow. I guess I amjust used to it now. I also have a 7' 4 wt. Payne 98 that I built that Iuse on small streams and I really can't say that it casts better or worsethan the 212, just different, and like you, by the end of the first hour orso I am used to it ,too. I also tend to buy cheap beer, when I am hot andtired and the beer is cold it all tastes good.John from FlyTyr@southshore.com Wed Sep 9 17:31:20 1998 (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA27714 for ;Wed, 9 Sep1998 16:32:27 - 0500 Subject: Correction :RPM of motors for dip tubes Let me correct the 4 3/4". It was meant to be 1 3/4"Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tony Spezio wrote: I don't know if this will help or not. I have not built my first completerodyet so have not used it to varnish one. I used a old electric clockutilizingthe "second" portion of the clock, one rpm. Made a shaft with a 4 3/4"drum.This gives me a withdrawal rate of just over 4" per. min.. It does a goodjobwith a 3' length of 3/8 dowel. It will be a while before I can give therealtest.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com RMargiotta@aol.com wrote: A quick survey: What are the RPMs of the motors you use for your diptube? Thanks. --Rich from rcurry@top.monad.net Wed Sep 9 17:43:24 1998 Subject: Re: "Theoretical" silk line question All,Silk has smaller diameter for same weight, as evidenced by 1.3+ S.G.ascompared to .8+ S.G. of some nylon.I have compared, for example, oiled silk in HDH to oiled Nylon, alsoHDH. The silk was approx. 5.5wt as compared to 4 wt. for the Nylon ofthe same diameter.As for the differences between silk and modern PVC lines... anupcomingissue of Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine will contain a dissertation on thesubject.Re: plastic coated, tapered braid. I have some examples of this and,alas, it has a few unattractive qualities. The plastic doesn't hold adressing, so it doesn't float in the meniscus like silk, and the stiffplastic inhibits the flexibility of the braided core and cracks easily. Frank, if you tried to use a Micro-balloon PVC coating like mostcommercial floating lines, you require a hollow core to permit gas toescape in the curing process. Some early plastic lines tried a tapered,hollow braid, but found it prohibitively expensive. Once you go for ahollow core you effectively have a piece of PVC pipe, as compared tosilk which is a thin rope. Which would be more supple?Best regards,Reed from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Sep 9 17:44:11 1998 Subject: Re: "Theoretical" silk line question I suppose there might have been a manufacturer that braidedsilk over a core, but the silk lines I've been seeing have all beensolid silk - well not solid , but braided silk strands throughout.The taper was achieved by introducing more silk strands in thebraid to gradually thicken the line. I've never used one, but from what I hear, the braided nylon linesstretched like a bungee cord and sawed through guides quickly.They also lost their oil and varnish treatment faster than silk. Darryl from rcurry@top.monad.net Wed Sep 9 17:54:16 1998 Subject: Re: Cleaning/Reconditioning OLD Silk Lines Frank Stetzer wrote:Long ago silk line re-finishing was discussed on this list at somelength, I'm sure the archives can be mined for several recipies. Since then I've run across another formula, in H. G. Tapply's "TackleTinkering" (1946), which is a little different. Maybe it will be ofuse to someone. The book also discusses fixing small breaks in thefinish, splicing, etc. The process will take you all winter, and youprobably should extinguish all smoking materials before starting: Frank,Please don't try that approach on a good silk line. There are muchgentler, asn safer, means. Also, Tung oil largely replaced excessivelinseed oil in later years (1930+) because it has less tendency totackiness.Chris Bogart, and his lovely assistant, will be presenting a shortcourse on reconditioning silk lines at the Catskill Gathering.Best regards,Reed from rcurry@top.monad.net Wed Sep 9 18:00:32 1998 Subject: Re: Unused, in the box HCH line Rick Crenshaw wrote:Questions: a. Is the line I have worth more as a collectible, or should I destroythe collectability and fish it? I don't care to 'collect' any stuff Idon't fish with. b. Anyone want to trade what I WANT for what I GOT? Assuming thevalues are roughly equal.Rick,a. If you have a 7wt rod, fish it, you'll love it.b. I don't need any HCHs, sorry.Best regards,Reed from thorstad@primenet.com Wed Sep 9 19:24:30 1998 be "lizard"via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd015038; Wed Sep 9 17:24:221998 Subject: Re: RPM of motors for dip tubes I haven't built a dip tube yet, but I found that the guts of a kitchencan- opener (about a buck at a thrift shop) rotates the cutting wheel at 50rpm. I'm going to try to rig it for a dip tube, only problem is that thecutting wheel is pressed on. I think I'll JB Weld something on to turn abelt. Tim thorstad@primenet.com -----Original Message----- Subject: RPM of motors for dip tubes A quick survey: What are the RPMs of the motors you use for your diptube? Thanks. --Rich from briancreek@xoommail.com Wed Sep 9 19:49:32 1998 Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:49:31 -0700 Subject: Tapers Thoughts? Ed- Yes, I think that tapers matter, as much or as little as you like. I prefer rods with a moderately fast action best illustrated by modern parabolics. I don't like real slow rods, and I don't much care for fast graphite rods that require high line speeds to load the rod. I use to like my Orvis HLS 8'6" 5 wt. until I started fishing some good bamboo rods. I used to like Busch Beer and PBR until all of the new micro brews came along, used to drink Folgers until the grocery went into designer coffees in the bean and I got a grinder for christmas, and on and on. I just fish and fool around with tackle because I like to. I happened to stumble on some rod tapers that suit my personality today, don't know about tommorrow. But I know I'll keep trying new stuff if for no other reason than just to see what I'm missing. BrianBest regards,-Ed Estlow ____________________________________________________Visit XOOM for FREE home pages, email, web software, clip art and MORE!http://www.xoom.com from penr0295@eoni.com Wed Sep 9 19:53:05 1998 adam.eoni.com(8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA29629 for ;Wed, 9 Sep1998 17:53:27 -0700 Subject: Website printout problems? I just got a message from someone saying that when they tried printingoutpart of my webpage, the images would print, but not the text. Is this aproblem that others have had with my pages? If so, I would like to remedyit. Thomas Penrosehttp://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Coffeehouse/5262/home.htm from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Sep 9 20:15:53 1998 Subject: Re: Taper Design Chris,I started out with Garrison tapers and didn't like 'em. I then graphedthem every 5" tip to butt and played around with 'em 'til I got what Iwanted.I now use the Hexrod program to compare tapers before I build 'em but Istillgraph my tapers when I design something new (If you can call any taper"new"-they've probably all been done by someone previously). I tend to staywith straight line tapers with some variations. Jon Bokstom has been veryhelpful with taper steepness or pitch for various rod lengths and I wasableto modify one of Wayne C.'s 7' for a 3 tapers to a 71/2 ' for a 3 with someplaying around with the tip dimensions and increasing the steepness from15" from the tip-it turned out very well.Hope this helps.Regards,Hank. from thramer@presys.com Wed Sep 9 20:34:19 1998 0000 Subject: Re: "Theoretical" silk line question Frank Stetzer wrote: As I understand it, the major difference between silk and the currentsynthetic lines is that silk has a thin, even coating over a taperedcore, while a synthethic line has a thick, tapered coating over a thin,uniform core. If this is so wouldn't it be possible to make a line with a taperedcore and thin coating like a silk line, but with a synthetic core thatwould be more durable? A line made like this should handle like a silkline, I'd think. It might cost more than $40 but not $180 like a newsilk line. I would be surprised if lines like this were not madecommercially sometime in the 40's or 50's when synthetics were newand real silk was scarce. Any reason they couldn't be made again?......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899.The thin coating/ thick coating is the main difference between Cortland333 and 444 lines. The 444 is made by tapering the core while the the333 is made by tapering the coating.A.J.Thramer from ragnarig@integrityol.com Wed Sep 9 23:02:35 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A186209011A; Wed, 09 Sep 1998 21:11:50 PDT Subject: Re: Taper Design I wonder how those of you who have developed your own tapers beganwork onthis process. Did you come at it with what you decided was a base taper, made a rod,andthen adjusted the taper in various areas and made more rods until youcompleted one that had the action you were after? Did you take a known taper and adjust it to meet the feel you were after? Dear Chris There are a couple of tapers I arrived at in roughly this way but, since thegood ones usually end up feeling something like a Young, I usually justmakethem on their tapers. I think your last line in the above snipping may wanta second reading. To one extent or another I believe Ed's observation about adapting ourcasting styles to favorite/expensive/only rods has some merit. If theaction is just totally inadequate or conspicuously lacking in somenecessaryattribute then yes, a change has obviously got to be made. If, on the otherhand, the deficiency is not too opressive then we tend to compensate,concously or not. It reminds me of a guitarmaker friend in California. If a customer says hethinks a guitar has too much treble, Bob tells him to take a Sinutab. Itell people to do pushups. Same principle. Davy from dellc@nextdim.com Wed Sep 9 23:25:16 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A2204B0192; Wed, 09 Sep 1998 21:14:24 PDT Subject: Re: "Theoretical" silk line question Hi listers, If a group wanted to buy one of your rods to give as a gift to aperson that you didn't want to have for strictly personal reasons, wouldyourefuse to do it?Dell Coppock-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: "Theoretical" silk line question Frank Stetzer wrote: As I understand it, the major difference between silk and the currentsynthetic lines is that silk has a thin, even coating over a taperedcore, while a synthethic line has a thick, tapered coating over a thin,uniform core. If this is so wouldn't it be possible to make a line with a taperedcore and thin coating like a silk line, but with a synthetic core thatwould be more durable? A line made like this should handle like a silkline, I'd think. It might cost more than $40 but not $180 like a newsilk line. I would be surprised if lines like this were not madecommercially sometime in the 40's or 50's when synthetics were newand real silk was scarce. Any reason they couldn't be made again?......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899.The thin coating/ thick coating is the main difference between Cortland333 and 444 lines. The 444 is made by tapering the core while the the333 is made by tapering the coating.A.J.Thramer from saweiss@flash.net Wed Sep 9 23:26:57 1998 Subject: Re: first rod -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: first rod In a message dated 98-09-09 00:13:32 EDT, you write: ready to go fishing. A 7' 4-wt Sir D taper (thanks, Darryl) >> Shouldn't a thank you go to Wayne for his taper? You are very right! Actually, multiple thankyou's because Wayne's book andtapes were my frequent references throughout the process and his taperwasthe parent of the Sir D taper.Steve from ragnarig@integrityol.com Wed Sep 9 23:30:14 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A8031B3014C; Wed, 09 Sep 1998 21:39:31 PDT Subject: Re: Cleaning/Reconditioning OLD Silk Lines Since then I've run across another formula, in H. G. Tapply's "TackleTinkering" (1946), which is a little different. Maybe it will be ofuse to someone. The book also discusses fixing small breaks in thefinish, splicing, etc. The process will take you all winter, and youprobably should extinguish all smoking materials before starting: Frank,Please don't try that approach on a good silk line. There are muchgentler, asn safer, means. Also, Tung oil largely replaced excessivelinseed oil in later years (1930+) because it has less tendency totackiness. As the bumper sticker says, "Reed is Right!" If you get impatient and/orcan't make it to the Catskills meet, and you decide to try this method asyou know no other, be prepared to have that fragile old line part as youslide down it with a solvent-soaked rag building up heat and friction. It could even get exciting, depending on the composition of the solvent,thetraction of your tennis shoes and a couple of other variables. :-) Warm,soapy water will go farther toward restoring an old line than you mightthink. And it is safe. At the very least, don't try to re-coat the silkwithout a good neutralizing soak. Davy from saweiss@flash.net Wed Sep 9 23:47:40 1998 Subject: Re: first rod -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: first rod Is that one of the tapers in Cattanach's book? I'm at the stage of choosingmy first taper. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu WDHCJL@aol.comSent: Wednesday, September 09, 1998 11:23 AM Subject: Re: first rod The taper came from the Rodmakers listserve's archives. The taper is aCattanach, modified by Darryl Hayashida. The action, I feel, is relativelyfast, with a nice tip that will cast just your leader. As you lay out moreline, the rod easily will carry long casts. I can power a hard double hauland the rod shoots line flat and accurately. It may be a function of mypainstaking care in straightening, but what impresses me most is that itcasts where I look.Steve Weiss from saweiss@flash.net Wed Sep 9 23:50:41 1998 Subject: Re: first rod -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: first rod Congrats Doc! I think that's going to be the "Baby Boom" rod of all of us "firsttimers".Did you build a two or three piece version? I'm in the process of atwo-piecer myself. I won't have it done in time for the Catskills, butwhenit does get finished, I'm sure I'll report back! Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Dr. Steven A. Weiss [SMTP:saweiss@flash.net]Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 1998 12:11 AM Subject: first rod Well, I finished the first one!After almost a year of study, preparation, building equipment & shop,it'sready to go fishing. A 7' 4-wt Sir D taper (thanks, Darryl) that castsbetter than any other bamboo rod I have tried and looks very fine.This list has been instrumental in helping me, especially the archives.Tomorrow it gets tested on some of our New Mexico browns in theJemezmountains.Steve Weiss Two-piece, Dennis. from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Sep 10 01:57:02 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Who to sell to (was Re: "Theoretical" silk line question) I think there is a problem in your thinking on this...there is only ONE WAYto guarantee that nobody you dislike ever gets one of your rods...and thatis DON'T BUILD ANY! If you sell ANY rods to ANYBODY, they will be loaned to other people, givenas gifts or resold. If you make rods but don't sell any, you may lend themto others (who will sometimes lend them out as well). If you make rods,don't sell any and don't lend them out, your widow or heirs will somedaysell, lend, or gift some of the rods you made. So the solution is:A) Don't build rods; or,B) Don't worry, be happy (sorry, couldn't resist) people want yourhandiwork George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: "Theoretical" silk line question Hi listers, If a group wanted to buy one of your rods to give as a gift toaperson that you didn't want to have for strictly personal reasons, wouldyourefuse to do it?Dell Coppock-----Original Message-----From: A.J.Thramer Date: Wednesday, September 09, 1998 6:28 PMSubject: Re: "Theoretical" silk line question Frank Stetzer wrote: As I understand it, the major difference between silk and the currentsynthetic lines is that silk has a thin, even coating over a taperedcore, while a synthethic line has a thick, tapered coating over a thin,uniform core. If this is so wouldn't it be possible to make a line with a taperedcore and thin coating like a silk line, but with a synthetic core thatwould be more durable? A line made like this should handle like a silkline, I'd think. It might cost more than $40 but not $180 like a newsilk line. I would be surprised if lines like this were not madecommercially sometime in the 40's or 50's when synthetics were newand real silk was scarce. Any reason they couldn't be made again?......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899.The thin coating/ thick coating is the main difference between Cortland333 and 444 lines. The 444 is made by tapering the core while the the333 is made by tapering the coating.A.J.Thramer from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Sep 10 04:16:49 1998 Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:16:22 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Some random thoughts... Thomas McGuane (possibly in Live Water) goes on the list most or all his rods at the time of writing, from memory all were pretty different and his favourite was one I don't rember but not cane although he does list a couple as being right up there. After getting through the list you begin thinking he's blowing his own trumpet a bit, but he then writes that you must learn to LOVE your rod, then the reason for his listing all his rods becomes apparent. Any of the rods would be great if it were fished often enough and you became so used to it it's your favourite rod. There are rods out there I could never get to like because the actions don't agree with my style, but it's hard to imagine a well made rod on a good taper being no good particually if it's your first because you'll use it enough to get used to it. Tony On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, john channer wrote: At 08:20 AM 9/9/98 -0500, you wrote:I got in to work a bit early this morning and read the overnight postingsand one from Aug. 25th on mentoring advice for a beginner. Thesepromptedthis thought about rod tapers and their actions. Regarding actions of rods, I fish with bamboo and graphite (severaltypes)and, occasionally with my daughter's Winston Stalker series 7'0"3/4wt,which is fiberglass (and one sweet rod!). Obviously, these all havewildlydifferent actions. I always find that I have trouble with my casting atthebeginning of the evening no matter which rod I'm using ( I fish mostly inthe evening - a combination of favorite time of day and the fact that Ihave to work for a living). By the end of the evening, no matter what rod(read "action") I'm fishing with, I find that the rod has become anextension of my arm. Now I'm sure I have all the typical amateurcaster'sbad habits analogous to a golfer's bad habits, but the fact is I cannotputthe fly precisely and accurately where I want it until an hour or twointothe evening. By the end of the evening however, I can place the flywithina 1' - 2' circle repeatedly (out to about 30' perhaps). What does this say about rod actions, and therefore tapers? Blasphemyofblasphemies, could this mean that taper isn't quite so important afterall?Is this like my friend who buys the cheapest beer he can, not because hecan't taste the difference, but because he just doesn't care? Perhaps I'mjust easy to please? I know that I do like to focus on the stream, thefish, the insects, and the birds and not on the fishing tools when I'm onthe stream. Thoughts? Best regards,-Ed Estlow Ed;I agree completely. I mostly fish the 8' Garrison 212 I built and italwaysseems just fine to me(I doubt if I am prejudiced), but I have heard andread lots of comments about Garrison designs being too slow. I guess Iamjust used to it now. I also have a 7' 4 wt. Payne 98 that I built that Iuse on small streams and I really can't say that it casts better or worsethan the 212, just different, and like you, by the end of the first hour orso I am used to it ,too. I also tend to buy cheap beer, when I am hot andtired and the beer is cold it all tastes good.John /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Sep 10 04:23:05 1998 Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:22:54 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Taper Design On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, David wrote: I wonder how those of you who have developed your own tapers beganwork onthis process. Did you come at it with what you decided was a base taper, made a rod,andthen adjusted the taper in various areas and made more rods until youcompleted one that had the action you were after? Did you take a known taper and adjust it to meet the feel you wereafter? Dear Chris There are a couple of tapers I arrived at in roughly this way but, sincethegood ones usually end up feeling something like a Young, I usually justmakethem on their tapers. I think your last line in the above snipping maywanta second reading. To one extent or another I believe Ed's observation about adapting ourcasting styles to favorite/expensive/only rods has some merit. If theaction is just totally inadequate or conspicuously lacking in somenecessaryattribute then yes, a change has obviously got to be made. If, on theotherhand, the deficiency is not too opressive then we tend to compensate,concously or not. It reminds me of a guitarmaker friend in California. If a customer sayshethinks a guitar has too much treble, Bob tells him to take a Sinutab. Itell people to do pushups. Same principle. Davy I agree, providing the guitar or rod is good.I forgot to mention I brew my own beer, unless I buy James Boag Premium. Made in Tasmania where the Tasmanian Devils live and the Canadians are scared. Without doubt the best comercial beer in the known universe. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Sep 10 04:24:06 1998 Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:23:56 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: "Theoretical" silk line question On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Dell wrote: Hi listers, If a group wanted to buy one of your rods to give as a gift to aperson that you didn't want to have for strictly personal reasons, wouldyourefuse to do it?Dell Coppock Only if the guy could appreciate it. from rcurry@top.monad.net Thu Sep 10 05:08:40 1998 Subject: Re: Taper Design Tony Young wrote:I forgot to mention I brew my own beer, unless I buy James BoagPremium.Made in Tasmania where the Tasmanian Devils live and the Canadians arescared. Tony,I do not understand the Canadian reference. Is this similar to "Montana - where men are men, and the sheep are nervous"?Canadian gone South,Reed from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Sep 10 06:36:08 1998 (modemcable224.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Who to sell to (was Re: "Theoretical" silk line question) I bought most of my bamboo rods by placing classified ads in small weeklynewspapers. Invariably, I'd get a call from someone saying they had someoftheir father's or grandfather's old equipment lying around and I could comeover and take a look at it. My two nicest rods came from a woman who'shusband had just passed away. We sat down for tea and she asked me whatIloved about fishing. I told her about catching browns on my favoritestream,casting dry flies while cedar waxwings swooped down to feed on mayflieduns.About how beautiful it all was, etc. She practically gave me those rodsexplaining that I was the type of person her husband would have liked tofish with. I guess in the end, our rods may end up in the hands of someone we don'tknow but would have wanted to meet. Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: Who to sell to (was Re: "Theoretical" silk line question) I think there is a problem in your thinking on this...there is only ONE WAYto guarantee that nobody you dislike ever gets one of your rods...and thatis DON'T BUILD ANY! If you sell ANY rods to ANYBODY, they will be loaned to other people, givenas gifts or resold. If you make rods but don't sell any, you may lend themto others (who will sometimes lend them out as well). If you make rods,don't sell any and don't lend them out, your widow or heirs will somedaysell, lend, or gift some of the rods you made. So the solution is:A) Don't build rods; or,B) Don't worry, be happy (sorry, couldn't resist) people want yourhandiwork George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: "Theoretical" silk line question Hi listers, If a group wanted to buy one of your rods to give as a gift toaperson that you didn't want to have for strictly personal reasons, wouldyourefuse to do it?Dell Coppock-----Original Message-----From: A.J.Thramer Date: Wednesday, September 09, 1998 6:28 PMSubject: Re: "Theoretical" silk line question Frank Stetzer wrote: As I understand it, the major difference between silk and the currentsynthetic lines is that silk has a thin, even coating over a taperedcore, while a synthethic line has a thick, tapered coating over a thin,uniform core. If this is so wouldn't it be possible to make a line with a taperedcore and thin coating like a silk line, but with a synthetic core thatwould be more durable? A line made like this should handle like a silkline, I'd think. It might cost more than $40 but not $180 like a newsilk line. I would be surprised if lines like this were not madecommercially sometime in the 40's or 50's when synthetics were newand real silk was scarce. Any reason they couldn't be made again?......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899.The thin coating/ thick coating is the main difference between Cortland333 and 444 lines. The 444 is made by tapering the core while the the333 is made by tapering the coating.A.J.Thramer from dpeaston@wzrd.com Thu Sep 10 07:17:45 1998 mail.wzrd.com(8.9.1/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA01612; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 08:12:26 -0400 Subject: Re:Do Tapers Matter? (Was "first rod") At 10:49 PM 9/9/98 -0600, Dr. Steven A. Weiss wrote:-----Original Message- ----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu WDHCJL@aol.comSent: Wednesday, September 09, 1998 11:23 AM Subject: Re: first rod The taper came from the Rodmakers listserve's archives. The taper is aCattanach, modified by Darryl Hayashida. The action, I feel, is relativelyfast, with a nice tip that will cast just your leader. As you lay out moreline, the rod easily will carry long casts. I can power a hard double hauland the rod shoots line flat and accurately. It may be a function of mypainstaking care in straightening, but what impresses me most is that itcasts where I look.Steve Weiss I think that the above description answers the "Do Tapers Matter"Question....., Yesssss! Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from rclarke@eou.edu Thu Sep 10 10:15:49 1998 Subject: Re: Royer's Cane Russ, I second your opinion on Andy's cane. He is very good to work withas well. Just finished my first rod (finally!), and it was made with hisstuff. Thanks Andy! Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ---------- Subject: Royer's Cane Hi guys, I just wanted to publicly compliment Andy Royer on his cane. YesterdayI met him at his warehouse to pick up nine bales of "A" cane from his mostrecent shipment. Even though I was there in person, I did not get tocherrypick his bales. This is a two-fold compliment to Andy. First, he's anhonest dealer. When you order, you get what comes off the top of the pile.Second, I couldn't ask for better cane than that which was on top of thepile when I happened to make it down to his warehouse.The cane has very little mold. Of the two bales I've ripped into sofar, there is no appreciable mold at all. Holding pieces of cane up to thelight I noticed that Andy had bored a hole through the internodal dams topromote even drying. I suspect that this is why there was so very littlesplitting of culms I received, even though they've sat in a warehousethrough a relatively hot Seattle summer. The color was good - the culmshave a more even straw color than that of the previous shipment and thewater marks were minimal. By the time you remove the enamel you'll haveexceptionally clean cane. Furthermore, because Andy got this canewithoutslash marks he didn't have to remove the bottom meter of each culm, thuseach culm is heavier, with greater depth of power fibers, than that of hisfirst shipment. No two ways about it, these bales are heavy and thatbodeswell for rod making. Driving the twenty miles back to my shop I literallycrushed the front bar on my Jeep's factory roof rack due to the weight ofthe bales. Now I've got an excuse to buy a real roof rack. Russ ---------- from dryfly@erols.com Thu Sep 10 10:17:52 1998 Subject: Re: Website printout problems? Tom I had the same problem when I tried to print one of your files awhile backandI think it was because the print was white on a colored background. Ichangedthe text color and everything printed out fine. Bob Thomas Penrose wrote: I just got a message from someone saying that when they tried printingoutpart of my webpage, the images would print, but not the text. Is this aproblem that others have had with my pages? If so, I would like toremedyit. Thomas Penrosehttp://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Coffeehouse/5262/home.htm from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Sep 10 10:25:05 1998 Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:24:57 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Taper Design On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Reed F. Curry wrote: Tony Young wrote:I forgot to mention I brew my own beer, unless I buy James BoagPremium.Made in Tasmania where the Tasmanian Devils live and the Canadiansarescared. Tony,I do not understand the Canadian reference. Is this similar to "Montana - where men are men, and the sheep are nervous"?Canadian gone South,Reed Reed, it's sort of a long story I told about a month back about a practical joke I played on a Canadian I fished with in Tassie.Absolutely NO slight intended on Canadians or Tasmanian Devils, or Wombats either.Just how scared are those sheep in Montana? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Thu Sep 10 10:30:56 1998 10:32:34-0500 R8.20.00.25) Subject: Re[2]: Website printout problems? When I printed out your website pages last year (in black and white on laser printer) I had no problems, whatsoever. I use Netscape Navigator 3.01.Jon Thomas Penrose wrote: I just got a message from someone saying that when they tried printingout part of my webpage, the images would print, but not the text. Is this aproblem that others have had with my pages? If so, I would like toremedy it. Thomas Penrosehttp://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Coffeehouse/5262/home.htm from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Sep 10 10:46:13 1998 via smap(4.1) Subject: RE: Website Printout Problems Thomas, I too found it difficult to print out. I believe it's due to the dark background with the white printing. The text came out very light while the graphics were fine. I can read the text, but barely. There may be a way to configure the printer etc. so it prints the text out darker, but I don't know how. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from MasjC1@aol.com Thu Sep 10 14:07:20 1998 Subject: Re: Website printout problems? Tom, I printed your instructions for ferrule positioning last July and had noproblems using MS Explorer 4.0. Incidently, I found them most helpful in positioning the ferrules on myfirstrod. Thank you for the help. Mark Cole from MasjC1@aol.com Thu Sep 10 14:25:06 1998 Subject: Re: first rod Steve, from MasjC1@aol.com Thu Sep 10 14:27:59 1998 Subject: Re: first rod Steve, Congratulations on your first rod. I too build the Sir D Favorite as my firstrod, completing it in July. Fishes Great. I wonder how many new rod builders have used this taper for their firstrod. Mark Cole from MasjC1@aol.com Thu Sep 10 14:39:00 1998 Subject: Re: RPM of motors for dip tubes Rich, This past weekend I mostly completed my dip tube. I used a rod dryingmotor from Cabela's. It turns at 4 RMP and has a 1/4" shaft with a flat. I firstrigged it with a 1" diameter spool but that arraignment had a withdrawlrateof 5 inches per minute when rigged with two pulleys, block and tacklefashion.I then used a 1/4" spool and the rate fell to about 2.5 inched per minute. Ifyou are interested, the catalog number is 311429. Phone 1- 800-237-4444. Mark Cole from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Sep 10 15:08:39 1998 Subject: Re: first rod In a message dated 9/10/98 12:32:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time,MasjC1@aol.comwrites: I wonder how many new rod builders have used this taper for their firstrod. That taper was my third rod. Glad I found it.... Darryl from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Sep 10 15:10:39 1998 (modemcable224.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: Rodmakers URL request BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_FDUkYpWOyTL3S2ttgY31+g)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_FDUkYpWOyTL3S2ttgY31+g) I can't seem to find the new URL for the Rodmakers site. Could someoneplease post it? Many thanks Richard Nantelrichard.nantel@videotron.ca --Boundary_(ID_FDUkYpWOyTL3S2ttgY31+g) can't seem to find the new URL for the Rodmakers site. Could someone = it? thanks Richard Nantelrichard.nantel@videotron.ca --Boundary_(ID_FDUkYpWOyTL3S2ttgY31+g)-- from mevans@acxiom.com Thu Sep 10 15:34:36 1998 Exchange ServerInternet Mail Connector Version 4.0.996.62) Sep 199815:37:43 -0500 Subject: FW: Rodmakers URL request 4.0.996.62 Richard, Try http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm . Mark Evans P.S. The following page contains the link to Rodmakers, plus a few dozen others: I've used it several times when I've lost a URL. http://members.xoom.com/mleider/rodlink2.html ---------- Subject: Rodmakers URL request I can't seem to find the new URL for the Rodmakers site. Could someone please post it? Many thanks Richard Nantelrichard.nantel@videotron.ca from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Sep 10 16:36:02 1998 (modemcable224.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: first rod I'm actually looking for that taper right now (you guessed it, for my firstrod). Could someone point me in the right direction? Thanks Richard -----Original Message----- SalarFly@aol.com Subject: Re: first rod In a message dated 9/10/98 12:32:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time,MasjC1@aol.comwrites: I wonder how many new rod builders have used this taper for their firstrod. That taper was my third rod. Glad I found it.... Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Sep 10 17:04:55 1998 Subject: Re: first rod In a message dated 9/10/98 2:43:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time,richard.nantel@videotron.ca writes: I'm actually looking for that taper right now (you guessed it, for my firstrod). Could someone point me in the right direction? On Jerry's web page or in the back of Wayne's book.it's the 7' 0" 4 DT 2 piece. Page 225.Darryl from penr0295@eoni.com Thu Sep 10 17:45:40 1998 adam.eoni.com(8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA04110 for ;Thu, 10 Sep1998 15:46:09 -0700 Subject: Re: Website printout problems? Thanks Mark. Responses lead me to believe that it is this individual'sbrowser that is to blame for the printing problem.-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Website printout problems? Tom, I printed your instructions for ferrule positioning last July and had noproblems using MS Explorer 4.0. Incidently, I found them most helpful in positioning the ferrules on myfirstrod. Thank you for the help. Mark Cole from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Sep 10 17:53:21 1998 (modemcable224.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: first rod Someone mentioned Wayne's taper was changed by Darryl. Does anyonehaveDarryl's alterations? Richard -----Original Message----- SalarFly@aol.com Subject: Re: first rod In a message dated 9/10/98 2:43:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time,richard.nantel@videotron.ca writes: I'm actually looking for that taper right now (you guessed it, for myfirstrod). Could someone point me in the right direction? On Jerry's web page or in the back of Wayne's book.it's the 7' 0" 4 DT 2 piece. Page 225.Darryl from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Sep 10 18:21:03 1998 Subject: Re: Cleaning/Reconditioning OLD Silk Lines Davy I don't want to let the cat out of Reed's bag since we are doing asilk line restoration demo at Roscoe this weekend - Let's revist thisquestionon Monday because some will be surprised at some of the techniques for restoration of silk lines that will come out of our demo. I will have lineswithme that were declared "junk" that are now are really nice. Reed is also putting together an article for Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine on the subject.So those lucky souls that are attending the Catskill Gathering it willbe something to look forward to. Chris On Wed, 9 Sep 1998 21:28:18 -0700, David wrote: Since then I've run across another formula, in H. G. Tapply's "TackleTinkering" (1946), which is a little different. Maybe it will be ofuse to someone. The book also discusses fixing small breaks in thefinish, splicing, etc. The process will take you all winter, and youprobably should extinguish all smoking materials before starting: Frank,Please don't try that approach on a good silk line. There are muchgentler, asn safer, means. Also, Tung oil largely replaced excessivelinseed oil in later years (1930+) because it has less tendency totackiness. As the bumper sticker says, "Reed is Right!" If you get impatient and/orcan't make it to the Catskills meet, and you decide to try this method asyou know no other, be prepared to have that fragile old line part as youslide down it with a solvent-soaked rag building up heat and friction. It could even get exciting, depending on the composition of the solvent,thetraction of your tennis shoes and a couple of other variables. :-) Warm,soapy water will go farther toward restoring an old line than you mightthink. And it is safe. At the very least, don't try to re-coat the silkwithout a good neutralizing soak. Davy from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Sep 10 18:36:34 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Taper Design Pretty scared.Hank. from saweiss@flash.net Thu Sep 10 18:48:50 1998 Subject: Re: first rod -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: first rod Someone mentioned Wayne's taper was changed by Darryl. Does anyonehaveDarryl's alterations? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu SalarFly@aol.comSent: Thursday, September 10, 1998 6:04 PM Subject: Re: first rod In a message dated 9/10/98 2:43:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time,richard.nantel@videotron.ca writes: I'm actually looking for that taper right now (you guessed it, for myfirstrod). Could someone point me in the right direction? On Jerry's web page or in the back of Wayne's book.it's the 7' 0" 4 DT 2 piece. Page 225.Darryl Richard,Darryl made the following modifications to Wayne's taper to reduce stressinthe tip:5" .07410" .08615" .104 Steve Weiss from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Sep 10 19:02:30 1998 Subject: Re: first rod In a message dated 9/10/98 3:59:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time,richard.nantel@videotron.ca writes: Someone mentioned Wayne's taper was changed by Darryl. Does anyonehaveDarryl's alterations? Just increase the 5, 10, and 15 inch diameters by .002Darryl from saltwein@swbell.net Thu Sep 10 19:05:40 1998 gw2adm.rcsntx.swbell.net TAA01837 Subject: Re: first rod Steve, The "Sir D" was my first rod also. I think it is a great rod and havetwo friends who have cast it that would like to have one. I think itshould be considered a really good first rod and perhaps an addendum tothe "Sir D" title might point this out. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from briancreek@xoommail.com Thu Sep 10 19:06:45 1998 Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:06:43 -0700 Subject: Trouble with loading rodmakers page I can't load the rodmakers web page. Is anyone else having a problem? Brian ____________________________________________________Visit XOOM for FREE home pages, email, web software, clip art and MORE!http://www.xoom.com from anglport@con2.com Thu Sep 10 19:22:23 1998 Subject: Re: Trouble with loading rodmakers page Brian, I didn't 'til YOU mentioned it. Okay, whattedyado to the page? Where is it?Fess up. (His server must be down for the night or something--I reallyneverhad a problem before. I know he was talking about having to move. Maybewediscovered it before he could get the announcement out).We'll see,Art At 05:06 PM 9/10/98 -0700, you wrote:I can't load the rodmakers web page. Is anyone else having a problem? Brian ____________________________________________________Visit XOOM for FREE home pages, email, web software, clip art and MORE!http://www.xoom.com from rcurry@top.monad.net Thu Sep 10 19:49:49 1998 Subject: Re: Cleaning/Reconditioning OLD Silk Lines Chris Bogart wrote: Davy I don't want to let the cat out of Reed's bag since we are doing asilk line restoration demo at Roscoe this weekend - Let's revist thisquestionon Monday because some will be surprised at some of the techniques forrestoration of silk lines that will come out of our demo. I will have lineswithme that were declared "junk" that are now are really nice. Reed is alsoputting together an article for Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine on the subject.Davy,Yes, it's true, I am the "lovely assistant"; but you folks havementioned "The Lovely Reed" so much in recent months that it's gone tomy head.Actually, I submitted an article to the Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine ontheadvantages of silk lines. Darryl is writing an article for them onre- conditioning silk lines.Best regards,Reed from RVenneri@aol.com Thu Sep 10 19:52:56 1998 Subject: Re: Trouble with loading rodmakers page Brian & ArtI had no trouble going to it. try it againhttp://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htmGood luckBob VRobert Venneri's Custom Components21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882 from RVenneri@aol.com Thu Sep 10 20:16:31 1998 Subject: Re: Trouble with loading rodmakers page Bob,Bingo! Brian, you're all alone. (But it DID refuse to load for me awhileago--something must have been wrong.)Art Brian & ArtI had no trouble going to it. try it againhttp://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htmGood luckBob VRobert Venneri's Custom Components21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882 from mevans@acxiom.com Thu Sep 10 20:31:06 1998 Exchange ServerInternet Mail Connector Version 4.0.996.62) Sep 199820:34:18 -0500 Subject: FW: Trouble with loading rodmakers page 4.0.996.62 Brian,Try a small animal sacrifice - (worked for me). ---------- Subject: Re: Trouble with loading rodmakers page Bob,Bingo!Brian, you're all alone. (But it DID refuse to load for me awhile ago- something must have been wrong.)Art Brian & ArtI had no trouble going to it. try it againhttp://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htmGood luckBob VRobert Venneri'sCustom Components21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882 from briansr@point-net.com Thu Sep 10 21:21:34 1998 0000 Subject: planing forms, a question Hi list , I'd like to ask a question which might have an obvious answer butI can,t figure out why .All plans for forms mention that a graduated taper has to be cut,or filedinto the form .The target behind deepening this groove from tip end of theplane to butt end is apparently to accomodate the taper of the finalproduct.Ok folks,here's the question .isn't this accomplished by opening each station pointto the required dist. anyway??It's going to produce more stress on thebolts, I realise that, but not that much more that I can see. Alsomathematically the taper would be easier to adjust on the form ratherthancombining the sloping taper in the groove + the induced taper by adjustingeach bolt.Thanking in advance Brian S. from robert.kope@MCI2000.com Thu Sep 10 21:58:34 1998 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 02:57:59 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: planing forms, a question The depth of the groove in the planing form isn't set mathematically. It'sset by directly measuring the depth at each station with a depth guagewhileadjusting the distance between the sides of the form. You want thedistancebetween the two sides to be small so the spline has as much support aspossible along its entire length. If the groove were not tapered, you wouldneed to have a groove that is only about 30 thousandths of an inch deep forthe tip section. This would provide very little support for the large endof the tip section and would make it nearly impossible to maintain theequilateral triangular cross-section of the splines. Robert Kope -----Original Message----- Subject: planing forms, a question Hi list , I'd like to ask a question which might have an obvious answerbutI can,t figure out why .All plans for forms mention that a graduated taper has to be cut,or filedinto the form .The target behind deepening this groove from tip end of theplane to butt end is apparently to accomodate the taper of the finalproduct.Ok folks,here's the question .isn't this accomplished by opening each station pointto the required dist. anyway??It's going to produce more stress on thebolts, I realise that, but not that much more that I can see. Alsomathematically the taper would be easier to adjust on the form ratherthancombining the sloping taper in the groove + the induced taper by adjustingeach bolt.Thanking in advance Brian S. from penr0295@eoni.com Thu Sep 10 22:05:23 1998 adam.eoni.com(8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA02455 for ;Thu, 10 Sep1998 20:05:51 -0700 Subject: Re: planing forms, a question Brian, If your question is "Why not use planing forms with an untaperedgroove?", the answer might be that the tip end of a tip section is oftenonly .030" inches thick, and consequently the groove in an untapered formcould therefore not be any deeper than .030 for planing a tip section.However, a groove this shallow is not deep enough to support the muchthicker butt end of a the tip section while you are planing it. This is howa tapered groove is helpful, even though the forms can be adjusted, as youpoint out. Tom Penrose-----Original Message----- Subject: planing forms, a question Hi list , I'd like to ask a question which might have an obvious answerbutI can,t figure out why .All plans for forms mention that a graduated taper has to be cut,or filedinto the form .The target behind deepening this groove from tip end of theplane to butt end is apparently to accomodate the taper of the finalproduct.Ok folks,here's the question .isn't this accomplished by opening each station pointto the required dist. anyway??It's going to produce more stress on thebolts, I realise that, but not that much more that I can see. Alsomathematically the taper would be easier to adjust on the form ratherthancombining the sloping taper in the groove + the induced taper by adjustingeach bolt.Thanking in advance Brian S. from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Sep 10 22:08:24 1998 Subject: Re: planing forms, a question In a message dated 9/10/98 7:40:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time,briansr@point-net.com writes: Ok folks,here's the question .isn't this accomplished by opening each stationpointto the required dist. anyway??It's going to produce more stress on thebolts, I realise that, but not that much more that I can see. Alsomathematically the taper would be easier to adjust on the form ratherthancombining the sloping taper in the groove + the induced taper byadjustingeach bolt. It's easier to plane when there is as much contact surface between thecane and metal as possible. The bamboo strips have less of a tendency towobble or slip along the form if the bevel is wider (deeper), due to moreengagement surface between the bamboo strip an metal form. The bevel does have tobe at a minimum depth because no amount of force will close up say, a .050 depth to a .030 depth if the forms are tight against each other at .050. It doesn't matter if it is mathematically difficult to figure out a resultingdepth due to the increasing taper, because the depth is measured directlywith a dial gauge. Darryl from bobbo@buffnet.net Thu Sep 10 22:19:32 1998 bybuffnet4.buffnet.net (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA27658 for buffnet9.buffnet.net viasmap (V2.0) Subject: Re: planing forms, a question Brian, in thebutt sections. If you simple make a .025 groove and open the forms all theway thestrip.At least that is what I determined when faced with the same question.Maybe webetter leave it to the experts. (I am just about to begin splitting for myfirstrod.)Good Luck,Bob At 10:19 PM 9/10/98 -0400, you wrote:Hi list , I'd like to ask a question which might have an obvious answerbutI can,t figure out why .All plans for forms mention that a graduated taper has to be cut,or filedinto the form .The target behind deepening this groove from tip end of theplane to butt end is apparently to accomodate the taper of the finalproduct.Ok folks,here's the question .isn't this accomplished by opening each station pointto the required dist. anyway??It's going to produce more stress on thebolts, I realise that, but not that much more that I can see. Alsomathematically the taper would be easier to adjust on the form ratherthancombining the sloping taper in the groove + the induced taper by adjustingeach bolt.Thanking in advance Brian S. -----------------------------Bob Maulucci218 Wallace Ave.Buffalo, New York 14216716-836-8297 http://www.buffnet.net/~bobbo/welcome.htm "Establish a better reputation for honesty in your home community; thenyou wonthave to bring in dead fish to prove that your not a liar." - Kenneth Reid from mevans@acxiom.com Thu Sep 10 22:29:53 1998 Exchange ServerInternet Mail Connector Version 4.0.996.62) Sep 199822:33:06 -0500 Subject: Looking for Help Purchasing a Rod 4.0.996.62 Another beginner's question ... While I'm getting started setting up shop and building my first rod, I'm thinking of selling a graphite rod to get something to fish in bamboo. Being new to cane rods, could I solicit some suggestions on rods to consider? - Here in Conway, Arkansas (located between Toad Suck and Pickles Gap - no kidding) the only cane available is at Walgreen's - and they're not open yet ... Would probably look for a 3wt - to use with my favorite reel. I'd want something that can throw an indicator (or a dry fly in its place) over a subsurface pattern. I fish mostly small stuff, 16s to 24s, on very light tippets and rarely need to cast over 40ft. I like medium action in graphite, - my two favorite graphite rods are a Sage 389 LL and a Powell Hexagraph - if that helps. I'm thinking of spending about $300 to $400 - so used would be fine. In this price range (prejudices aside) would I be able to get comparable performance to these rods? Frankly, I love the rods mentioned and would prefer to wait to finish my own rod if this price range won't allow for a worthwhile replacement. I appreciate the help and your patient advice. This is a very nice resource for a new comer. Mark Evans from KDLoup@aol.com Thu Sep 10 23:40:33 1998 Subject: Re: first rod I made the Cattanach 7' #4 as a first rod and have made two others forfriends. Kurt Loup from channer@hubwest.com Fri Sep 11 00:16:21 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A274F7B011C; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:17:40 MDT Subject: Re: Looking for Help Purchasing a Rod At 10:33 PM 9/10/98 -0500, you wrote:Another beginner's question ... While I'm getting started setting up shop and building my first rod, I'm thinking of selling a graphite rod to get something to fish in bamboo. Being new to cane rods, could I solicit some suggestions on rods to consider? - Here in Conway, Arkansas (located between Toad Suck and Pickles Gap - no kidding) the only cane available is at Walgreen's - and they're not open yet ... Would probably look for a 3wt - to use with my favorite reel. I'd want something that can throw an indicator (or a dry fly in its place) over a subsurface pattern. I fish mostly small stuff, 16s to 24s, on very light tippets and rarely need to cast over 40ft. I like medium action in graphite, - my two favorite graphite rods are a Sage 389 LL and a Powell Hexagraph - if that helps. I'm thinking of spending about $300 to $400 - so used would be fine. In this price range (prejudices aside) would I be able to get comparable performance to these rods? Frankly, I love the rods mentioned and would prefer to wait to finish my own rod if this price range won't allow for a worthwhile replacement. I appreciate the help and your patient advice. This is a very nice resource for a new comer. Mark Evans Mark;Check out the Classic Angler website. Dick Spurr has a large selection ofold rods for sale there and in his printed catalogue that comes out 4 timesa year. I don't think you will have much luck finding a 3 wt. rod. Theseare very scarce, the old companies didn't make very many rods this lightand the few that are around are not for sale very often. Most of the rodsyou will see for sale are 5-7 wts. Good luck John Channer from ljrp@penn.com Fri Sep 11 00:26:51 1998 Subject: Re: Looking for Help Purchasing a Rod Got a basement full of bamboo from 7 foot heddons to 12 foot swedishsalmon,Grangers Leonard Heddon South Bend LL Bean Montague H&I john channer wrote: At 10:33 PM 9/10/98 -0500, you wrote:Another beginner's question ... While I'm getting started setting up shop and building my first rod,I'm thinking of selling a graphite rod to get something to fish inbamboo. Being new to cane rods, could I solicit some suggestions onrods to consider? - Here in Conway, Arkansas (located between ToadSuck and Pickles Gap - no kidding) the only cane available is atWalgreen's - and they're not open yet ... Would probably look for a 3wt - to use with my favorite reel. I'd wantsomething that can throw an indicator (or a dry fly in its place) overa subsurface pattern. I fish mostly small stuff, 16s to 24s, on verylight tippets and rarely need to cast over 40ft. I like medium actionin graphite, - my two favorite graphite rods are a Sage 389 LL and aPowell Hexagraph - if that helps. I'm thinking of spending about $300 to $400 - so used would be fine.In this price range (prejudices aside) would I be able to getcomparable performance to these rods? Frankly, I love the rodsmentioned and would prefer to wait to finish my own rod if this pricerange won't allow for a worthwhile replacement. I appreciate the help and your patient advice. This is a very niceresource for a new comer. Mark Evans Mark;Check out the Classic Angler website. Dick Spurr has a large selectionofold rods for sale there and in his printed catalogue that comes out 4timesa year. I don't think you will have much luck finding a 3 wt. rod. Theseare very scarce, the old companies didn't make very many rods this lightand the few that are around are not for sale very often. Most of the rodsyou will see for sale are 5-7 wts. Good luck John Channer from ragnarig@integrityol.com Fri Sep 11 00:38:57 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A983B007C; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 22:47:47 PDT Subject: Re: Looking for Help Purchasing a Rod I'm thinking of spending about $300 to $400 - so used would be fine.In this price range (prejudices aside) would I be able to getcomparable performance to these rods? Frankly, I love the rodsmentioned and would prefer to wait to finish my own rod if this pricerange won't allow for a worthwhile replacement. Mark You might find something good in Len Codella's list (He advertises inBambooFlyrod Magazine) right around the upper end of your price range. Call himup and talk to him. He won't steer you wrong. If you want to finish a blank, I think he usually has a few by some verygood makers. This might be a good introduction to bamboo rods and giveyousomething to shoot for as you begin making your own. Now, having said all that, I must say that I think it's a mistake to spendyour money on this when you could use it to buy necessary tools formakingyour own. Do you have all the tools and tooling you need to get started?Nothing wrong with using the graphites whilst you're making a real one :-) Best of Luck,Davy from channer@hubwest.com Fri Sep 11 00:42:26 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A890F82011C; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:43:44 MDT Subject: Re: planing forms, a question At 10:19 PM 9/10/98 -0400, you wrote:Hi list , I'd like to ask a question which might have an obvious answerbutI can,t figure out why .All plans for forms mention that a graduated taper has to be cut,or filedinto the form .The target behind deepening this groove from tip end of theplane to butt end is apparently to accomodate the taper of the finalproduct.Ok folks,here's the question .isn't this accomplished by opening each station pointto the required dist. anyway??It's going to produce more stress on thebolts, I realise that, but not that much more that I can see. Alsomathematically the taper would be easier to adjust on the form ratherthancombining the sloping taper in the groove + the induced taper by adjustingeach bolt.Thanking in advance Brian S. Brian;The type of form you are talking about is described in Claude Krieder'sbook The Bamboo Rod and How to Build It. He shows how to make a set of formswithall four corners of each bar beveled in a straight groove, giving you fourdifferent depths to use. The bars are adjusted by using C- clamps andshimsto set a taper in them, then the strips are planed down to the final taper necessary. I am sure there were many rods built on forms of this kindbefore Garrison's book came out. Kreider wrote his book in 1951 and theGarrison book didn't come out until the early seventies. Herter's inMinnesota also used to sell a form that was a wide flat steel plate with 4grooves of fixed, straight tapers in them and you adjusted the differentdrops in the taper by sliding the strips back and forth in the groove asnecessary. I have never seen or used either of these kinds of forms, butthey both sound like a huge pain in the butt compared to using adjustable,tapered forms of the kind we all use now. Progress is not enirely a badthing. Altho it may sound difficult in the plans for building forms, it isnot really very hard to make them with the graduated taper, it is just timeconsuming and you must pay attention to detail along the way. As has beensaid by others, it is good training for building the rod itself. If you canbuild the necessary forms accurately, then you should be able to build therod itself accurately. The tools needed are pretty basic, altho a fullmachine shop is nice to have, you can make just as good a form with just afew tools. You can get the job done with an electric drill, a dowelling jigand a couple of files, drill bits and taps, and some c- clamps. You don'teven have to use steel, hard maple has worked well for many of us and iseasier to work. Read what's available, get a few tools and get started. John Channer from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Sep 11 06:24:39 1998 (modemcable224.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Trouble with loading rodmakers page I couldn't load it yesterday afternoon (got a server error) but it workedfine last night. Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: Trouble with loading rodmakers page I can't load the rodmakers web page. Is anyone else havinga problem? Brian ____________________________________________________Visit XOOM for FREE home pages, email, web software, clip art and MORE!http://www.xoom.com from Turbotrk@aol.com Fri Sep 11 08:28:14 1998 Subject: Re: planing forms, a question I am just getting started on gathering information about rod making. Thequestion of what kind of forms to use seems to be the starting point. Whatdoes everyone think is the best type to build. I have seen so manysuggestions. In George Barnes book, (much outdated I might add), he usesthegrooved forms on flat 4" steel. I have also seen the adjustable formsthatyou can make yourself. What is the best way? soon to be a rod builder Stuart Miller from ljrp@penn.com Fri Sep 11 08:59:44 1998 Subject: Re: Looking for Help Purchasing a Rod I will second both Codella and Dick Spurr, these guys have done more forcollectable cane lovers than anyone in the world. Patronize these guystheyhave good inventories of rods in all price ranges. David wrote: I'm thinking of spending about $300 to $400 - so used would be fine.In this price range (prejudices aside) would I be able to getcomparable performance to these rods? Frankly, I love the rodsmentioned and would prefer to wait to finish my own rod if this pricerange won't allow for a worthwhile replacement. Mark You might find something good in Len Codella's list (He advertises inBambooFlyrod Magazine) right around the upper end of your price range. Call himup and talk to him. He won't steer you wrong. If you want to finish a blank, I think he usually has a few by some verygood makers. This might be a good introduction to bamboo rods and giveyousomething to shoot for as you begin making your own. Now, having said all that, I must say that I think it's a mistake to spendyour money on this when you could use it to buy necessary tools formakingyour own. Do you have all the tools and tooling you need to get started?Nothing wrong with using the graphites whilst you're making a real one:-) Best of Luck,Davy from rcurry@top.monad.net Fri Sep 11 09:01:33 1998 Subject: Re: Looking for Help Purchasing a Rod Mark,Surprisingly, if you could spring for $500 it is possible to buy a NEWcane 7'6" 4wt.. The rod in question is made by one of the listmemberswho is well known for the quality of his work. I've had the opportunityto cast one of his rods and found it to be very pleasing. For details,check Bob Corsetti's Spring 1998 catalogue, item #61.Bob may be contacted at (603) 886-0411. He is honest and pleasanttodeal with.Usual disclaimer.Best regards,ReedP.S. - I didn't think it was fair to mention the maker by name. from frankc@webspan.net Fri Sep 11 09:20:01 1998 Subject: Catskill Gathering AEAEB5CFBFDAF13007322789" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- AEAEB5CFBFDAF13007322789 Can someone tell me what time the Catskill Bamboo Rod Gathering startstomorrow? Frank --------------AEAEB5CFBFDAF13007322789 begin: vcardfn: FRANKn: ;FRANKemail;internet: frankc@webspan.net end: vcard --------------AEAEB5CFBFDAF13007322789-- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Sep 11 09:27:58 1998 Fri, 11 Sep 1998 22:27:31 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: planing forms, a question On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, john channer wrote: Brian;The type of form you are talking about is described in Claude Krieder'sbook The Bamboo Rod and How to Build It. He shows how to make a set of formswithall four corners of each bar beveled in a straight groove, giving you fourdifferent depths to use. The bars are adjusted by using C- clamps andshimsto set a taper in them, then the strips are planed down to the final taper necessary. I am sure there were many rods built on forms of this kindbefore Garrison's book came out. Kreider wrote his book in 1951 and theGarrison book didn't come out until the early seventies. Herter's inMinnesota also used to sell a form that was a wide flat steel plate with4 A friend recently lent me this book and I thought this form would be an excellent starter if not a good form period. Shimming sound a bit of a drag but I doubt it'd be too onerous in practice.The Kreider book is a good down to earth read. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from cmj@post11.tele.dk Fri Sep 11 10:49:23 1998 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0200 Subject: Sv: first rod KAA29848 Steve, The "Sir D" was my first rod also. I think it is a great rod and havetwo friends who have cast it that would like to have one. I think itshould be considered a really good first rod and perhaps an addendum tothe "Sir D" title might point this out. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO I don't think Sir D will approve, but how about an HRH before Sir D? :-) regards, Carsten from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Sep 11 11:15:49 1998 Subject: Re: Sv: first rod LAA21597 In a message dated 9/11/98 8:50:10 AM Pacific Daylight Time,cmj@post11.tele.dk writes: I don't think Sir D will approve, but how about an HRH before Sir D? :-) How about GFR? (Good First Rod) Darryl from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Fri Sep 11 12:00:07 1998 via smap(4.1) Subject: RE: Looking for Help Purchasing a Rod Mark, I think the advice to look at a new rod or a new blank is good. If your primary goal is a fishing implement I think you can get more for yourmoney some of the contemporary makers. There are some in the $350- $400range??? $500. If you find a used shorter, quality rod in the 3 or 4 wt. range it will likely cost you more because you're paying for both a fishing implementand also for the fact that it is scarce or collectible. Good luck with your search. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from dhaftel@att.com Fri Sep 11 16:32:01 1998 sender att.com!dhaftel (att.com!dhaftel); Fri Sep 11 10:34 CDT 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) (5.5.1960.3) Subject: RE: Catskill Gathering Starts tonight as far as I'm concerned! Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Frank Caruso [SMTP:frankc@webspan.net]Sent: Friday, September 11, 1998 10:22 AM Subject: Catskill Gathering Can someone tell me what time the Catskill Bamboo Rod Gathering startstomorrow? Frank > from DEMARALON@aol.com Fri Sep 11 17:45:54 1998 Subject: Re: Catskill Gathering Believe the official program begins at 9 AM. Harold Demarest from FlyTyr@southshore.com Fri Sep 11 19:14:32 1998 (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA00438 for ;Fri, 11 Sep1998 18:15:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Looking for Help Purchasing a Rod 7bit Can this site address be posted or sent to me off list ThanksTony FlyTyr@southshore.co Check out the Classic Angler website. Dick Spurr has a large selectionofold rods for sale there and in his printed catalogue that comes out 4timesa year. John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Fri Sep 11 19:30:42 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A0FBA70102; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 18:31:55 MDT Subject: Re: planing forms, a question At 10:27 PM 9/11/98 +0800, you wrote:On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, john channer wrote: Brian;The type of form you are talking about is described in Claude Krieder'sbook The Bamboo Rod and How to Build It. He shows how to make a set of formswithall four corners of each bar beveled in a straight groove, giving you fourdifferent depths to use. The bars are adjusted by using C- clamps andshimsto set a taper in them, then the strips are planed down to the finaltaper necessary. I am sure there were many rods built on forms of this kindbefore Garrison's book came out. Kreider wrote his book in 1951 and theGarrison book didn't come out until the early seventies. Herter's inMinnesota also used to sell a form that was a wide flat steel plate with4 A friend recently lent me this book and I thought this form would be an excellent starter if not a good form period. Shimming sound a bit of a drag but I doubt it'd be too onerous in practice.The Kreider book is a good down to earth read. Tony Tony;If it wasn't for Krieder I probably never would haver made the attempt atrodbuilding.Fortunately for me, I read his book first and decided I coulddo this. Then I got Waynes book and learned the more up-to-date methods. Ifinally read Garrison after I had made my forms and was ready to start.Theneat thing about rodbuilding is that you can be as retentive as you want,you still wind up with a fishin' pole when your done. John from channer@hubwest.com Fri Sep 11 19:33:19 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A1BA150132; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 18:35:06 MDT Subject: Re: Looking for Help Purchasing a Rod At 07:17 PM 9/11/98 -0500, you wrote: Can this site address be posted or sent to me off list ThanksTony FlyTyr@southshore.co Check out the Classic Angler website. Dick Spurr has a large selectionofold rods for sale there and in his printed catalogue that comes out 4timesa year. John Channer Tony;The address is-www.gorp.com/bamboo.htm Lots of good stuff there, don'tpass it up.John from saltwein@swbell.net Fri Sep 11 20:13:22 1998 gw1adm.rcsntx.swbell.net UAA09094 Subject: Re: planing forms, a question Turbotrk@aol.com wrote: I am just getting started on gathering information about rod making. Thequestion of what kind of forms to use seems to be the starting point. Whatdoes everyone think is the best type to build. I have seen so manysuggestions. In George Barnes book, (much outdated I might add), he usesthegrooved forms on flat 4" steel. I have also seen the adjustable formsthatyou can make yourself. What is the best way? soon to be a rod builder Stuart Miller Stuart, I started with making mine out of rock maple. I think this is a goodway to start because of the expense and it is easier to machine the maple. I plan to acquire a set of steel forms in the not too distantfuture and I will relegate my maple forms to initial tapers. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from saltwein@swbell.net Fri Sep 11 20:16:52 1998 gw1adm.rcsntx.swbell.net UAA11227 Subject: Re: Sv: first rod SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 9/11/98 8:50:10 AM Pacific Daylight Time,cmj@post11.tele.dk writes: I don't think Sir D will approve, but how about an HRH before Sir D? :-) How about GFR? (Good First Rod) Darryl GFR HRH "Sir D" I don't know, it seems a little heavy for a first rodtitle. Steve from FlyTyr@southshore.com Fri Sep 11 20:43:50 1998 (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA01877 for ;Fri, 11 Sep1998 19:44:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Looking for Help Purchasing a Rod Thanks John,Tony john channer wrote: At 07:17 PM 9/11/98 -0500, you wrote: Can this site address be posted or sent to me off list ThanksTony FlyTyr@southshore.co Check out the Classic Angler website. Dick Spurr has a largeselection ofold rods for sale there and in his printed catalogue that comes out 4timesa year. John Channer Tony;The address is-www.gorp.com/bamboo.htm Lots of good stuff there,don'tpass it up.John from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Sep 11 21:38:58 1998 (modemcable224.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: Granger taper John Gierach raves about his 8 ft, 5-weight Granger in many of his books.Does anyone know where I might find this taper? Thanks Richard from channer@hubwest.com Sat Sep 12 06:11:28 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A74BCA0122; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 05:13:15 MDT Subject: Re: Granger taper At 10:23 PM 9/11/98 -0400, you wrote: John Gierach raves about his 8 ft, 5-weight Granger in many of his books.Does anyone know where I might find this taper? Thanks Richard Richard;There is an 8' 5wt. 3pc. W&G Granger Victory taper in Jack Howell's book.If you can't get a copy. let me know and I will post the taper for you. John Channer from dpeaston@wzrd.com Sat Sep 12 07:44:48 1998 mail.wzrd.com(8.9.1/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA02179; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 08:39:26 -0400 "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Granger taper Take a look at the 8.5' Grainger Arisocrat on the rodmakers page http://Home1.gte.net/jfoster/tapers/wmga86.html If you are interested, I can give you more detail on this taper. -------------------------------------------------------------------------At 10:23 PM 9/11/98 -0400, Richard Nantel wrote: John Gierach raves about his 8 ft, 5-weight Granger in many of his books.Does anyone know where I might find this taper? Thanks Richard Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat Sep 12 10:51:35 1998 Sat, 12 Sep 1998 23:50:27 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: planing forms, a question On Fri, 11 Sep 1998, john channer wrote: At 10:27 PM 9/11/98 +0800, you wrote:On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, john channer wrote: Brian;The type of form you are talking about is described in Claude Krieder'sbook The Bamboo Rod and How to Build It. He shows how to make a set of formswithall four corners of each bar beveled in a straight groove, giving youfourdifferent depths to use. The bars are adjusted by using C- clamps andshimsto set a taper in them, then the strips are planed down to the finaltaper necessary. I am sure there were many rods built on forms of this kindbefore Garrison's book came out. Kreider wrote his book in 1951 andtheGarrison book didn't come out until the early seventies. Herter's inMinnesota also used to sell a form that was a wide flat steel platewith 4 A friend recently lent me this book and I thought this form would be an excellent starter if not a good form period. Shimming sound a bit of a drag but I doubt it'd be too onerous in practice.The Kreider book is a good down to earth read. Tony Tony;If it wasn't for Krieder I probably never would haver made the attempt atrodbuilding.Fortunately for me, I read his book first and decided I coulddo this. Then I got Waynes book and learned the more up-to-datemethods. Ifinally read Garrison after I had made my forms and was ready to start.Theneat thing about rodbuilding is that you can be as retentive as you want,you still wind up with a fishin' pole when your done. John Absolutely right. I keep telling people that you can make a rod as good as you're prepared to make and Krieder more or less puts that across. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sat Sep 12 12:02:29 1998 Subject: Re: "THE FORCE" praise Gentlemen,If anybody wants to make a teriffic 8'6" rod, consider stretcing Wayne's 8'6wt. I just finished one for a guy, and he thinks I'm some kinda genius (Imentioned Wayne and PHY at least 5 times).It throws a 6 beautifully but as a bonus, a 5DT is a good, more delicateoption if the hoppers cool off and a PMD hatch comes off- the guy's leaving And being a parabolic, there isn't such a huge dimension in the butt and theattendant weight to go with a .380 or more butt that would be necessary more traditional taper.MANY thanks to Wayne for first, pubishing the taper, and second,recommendingusing this taper to base this my 8'6" on at Grayrock. Rob Hoffhines from briancreek@xoommail.com Sat Sep 12 15:44:11 1998 Sat, 12 Sep 1998 13:44:08 -0700 Subject: Re: Trouble with loading rodmakers page HEY, now it works. Just had trouble one evening. Gremlins. Brian ____________________________________________________Visit XOOM for FREE home pages, email, web software, clip art and MORE!http://www.xoom.com from bobbo@buffnet.net Sat Sep 12 16:20:55 1998 bybuffnet4.buffnet.net (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA02950 for via smap(V2.0) Subject: refinishing Dear ListA couple months back, I bought a great casting SF era Winston. It's a cane9' 8wtrod from 1940.. I fished the rod today and when I showed the undersizedgrip to afriend, he thought that maybe it had been turned on a lathe and madesmaller.There are strange knurls in the grip that make the bigger cork ring markslooklike the grip is made of tiny pieces of cork. (I know it is hard to describe.)Are the grips usually small? Does this seem to be tampered with?Would it be possible to replace the grip? If I enjoyed fishing the rod, butfoundthe grip to be too small, would a larger grip help with hand fatigue. Is itunthinkable to do this even after someone may have already altered therod? Who would be the one to redo?Thanks in advance,Bob from channer@hubwest.com Sat Sep 12 16:48:16 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AC8B177011E; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 15:50:03 MDT Subject: Re: refinishing At 05:20 PM 9/12/98 -0400, you wrote:Dear ListA couple months back, I bought a great casting SF era Winston. It's acane 9' 8wt rod from 1940.. I fished the rod today and when I showed theundersized grip to a friend, he thought that maybe it had been turned on alathe and made smaller. There are strange knurls in the grip that make the bigger cork ring marks look likethe grip is made of tiny pieces of cork. (I know it is hard to describe.)Are the grips usually small? Does this seem to be tampered with?Would it be possible to replace the grip? If I enjoyed fishing the rod,but found the grip to be too small, would a larger grip help with handfatigue. Is it unthinkable to do this even after someone may have alreadyaltered the rod? Who would be the one to redo?Thanks in advance,Bob Bob;Sounds like the grip has been cleaned and is now starting to deteriorate. Ihave a Heddon that has the same problem.You can smooth it out by sandingitthen rub a small amount of mineral oil into the cork to keep it fromgetting any worse.If this doesn't work, the grip can be replaced, but thewhole butt section would have to be stripped to do it unless the reel seatis loose or needs to be relaced too.Whatever you do, don't take it to a flyshop that does in house repairs unless they are experienced with bambooandyou can look at some of theor work. You wouldn't believe the things I haveseen done to nice rods by guys that only work on graphite rods. John Channer from Rodsofcane@aol.com Sat Sep 12 19:08:16 1998 Subject: Stuck ferrules, HELP!! My heddon 3 peice rod is now a 2 peice I cannot get the middle ferrule tocomeapart, any suggestions would be appreciated! thanks Kent K. Anderson from sjstill@iquest.net Sat Sep 12 19:53:33 1998 0000 (209.43.53.245) Subject: Re: Stuck ferrules, HELP!! At 20:07 9/12/98 EDT, you wrote:My heddon 3 peice rod is now a 2 peice I cannot get the middle ferrule tocomeapart, any suggestions would be appreciated! Had that happen on vacation - a *judicious* application of heat did thetrick. Tried the behind the knees, 2 man pull and mild swearing, to noavail first. Heat was the last resort! HTH, SteveSteve and Julie StillabowerIndianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net from ljrp@penn.com Sat Sep 12 21:21:45 1998 Subject: Re: Stuck ferrules, HELP!! An old trick from bamboo days...SIT DOWN place both hands UNDER yourknees.PICK UP the rod with hands near each ferrule. with STEADY PRESSURE usethestrength in both your arms AND legs to try to separate the ferrule. If thatdoesn't work try heating the female slightly, do not lubricate ferrulesthis willcause tight ferrules to stick also. Hope it works. Cheers DickRodsofcane@aol.com wrote: My heddon 3 peice rod is now a 2 peice I cannot get the middle ferrule tocomeapart, any suggestions would be appreciated! thanksKent K. Anderson from Turbotrk@aol.com Sun Sep 13 17:47:37 1998 Subject: Re: Stuck ferrules, HELP!! When my grandfather took me fishing, he always made me apply a goodcoating ofnose grease to keep the ferrules from sticking. That is, take your thumbandforefinger and grasp your nose and pull down. The residue on your fingersisnose grease and has keep my ferrules from sticking for forty years. no joking stuart miller from FlyTyr@southshore.com Sun Sep 13 18:25:23 1998 natco.southshore.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA06567 for; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 17:26:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Stuck ferrules, HELP!! I used to rub the male part of the ferrule against the side of my nose. Stilldowhen I put metal ferrules together.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Turbotrk@aol.com wrote: When my grandfather took me fishing, he always made me apply a goodcoating ofnose grease to keep the ferrules from sticking. That is, take your thumbandforefinger and grasp your nose and pull down. The residue on yourfingers isnose grease and has keep my ferrules from sticking for forty years. no joking stuart miller from mosscrp@Ms.UManitoba.CA Sun Sep 13 18:56:32 1998 naos.cc.umanitoba.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA22144 Subject: Splitting vs cutting cane Hello;I would like some information/discussion on the pros/cons of splittingverse cutting bamboo to form uniform equalateral triangles. ThanksDavid David_Mosscrop@Umanitoba.ca from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Sep 13 20:30:47 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Stuck ferrules, HELP!! Guys,Back to the old habit of using nose grease to lube ferrules. DON'T nosegrease causes fine grit to stick to ferrules and will eventually causeferreules to work loose, use dry soap ( little bars from hotels work great)grit will not stick to dry soap and will help to lube ferrules.bret from dellc@nextdim.com Sun Sep 13 21:28:42 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id AC984D970072; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 19:16:56 PDT Subject: Re: Re: Stuck ferrules, HELP!! If nickle silver ferrules are fit properly there should be no need forlubrication, just wipe then clean every time that you put them together.Dell Coppock-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Stuck ferrules, HELP!! Guys,Back to the old habit of using nose grease to lube ferrules. DON'T nosegrease causes fine grit to stick to ferrules and will eventually causeferreules to work loose, use dry soap ( little bars from hotels workgreat)grit will not stick to dry soap and will help to lube ferrules.bret from dr_matro@cyberramp.net Sun Sep 13 21:49:23 1998 ESMTP idVAA23187 Ste@cyberramp.net, 106A@cyberramp.net, Dallas@cyberramp.net,TX@cyberramp.net, 75202@cyberramp.net Subject: Re: first rod SteveJust got back from that area with my first rod.Are you in that area or are you traveling? Ken C. from swilson1@WHC.NET Sun Sep 13 21:59:22 1998 ; Subject: Re: Stuck ferrules, HELP!! Dell wrote: If nickle silver ferrules are fit properly there should be no need forlubrication, just wipe then clean every time that you put them together.Dell Coppock-----Original Message-----From: Grhghlndr@aol.com Date: Sunday, September 13, 1998 6:24 PMSubject: Re: Stuck ferrules, HELP!! Guys,Back to the old habit of using nose grease to lube ferrules. DON'T nosegrease causes fine grit to stick to ferrules and will eventually causeferreules to work loose, use dry soap ( little bars from hotels workgreat)grit will not stick to dry soap and will help to lube ferrules.bret Several months ago, someone mentioned rubbing the male ferrule withwaxed paper to lubricate them. I tried it, and it seems to work withouthaving grit adhere to the waxed ferrule. The wax layer is also verythin and doesn't appear to affect fit.Scott Wilson from ljrp@penn.com Sun Sep 13 23:16:34 1998 Subject: Over varnish I have a wonderful Montague Redwing 9 ft trout size; beautifulmetalwork; great ferrule welts; silver seat with soldered reel pocketall original including ????many intermediates and decal wonderful redanodized aluminum case with machined brass cap. Question is is there away to strip the varnish from the rod and leave the windings intact?? Itappears the varnish is all original but someone gave the rod a poorovervarnish!! Ken Cole wrote: SteveJust got back from that area with my first rod.Are you in that area or are you traveling? Ken C. from saweiss@flash.net Sun Sep 13 23:16:53 1998 Subject: Re: first rod -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: first rod SteveJust got back from that area with my first rod.Are you in that area or are you traveling? Ken C. Hi Ken,I live here.Steve from dellc@nextdim.com Mon Sep 14 00:08:53 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A22966510144; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 21:57:13 PDT Subject: Re: Stuck ferrules, HELP!! That was my suggestion for people who still think that they need alubricant -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Stuck ferrules, HELP!! Dell wrote: If nickle silver ferrules are fit properly there should be no need forlubrication, just wipe then clean every time that you put them together.Dell Coppock-----Original Message-----From: Grhghlndr@aol.com Date: Sunday, September 13, 1998 6:24 PMSubject: Re: Stuck ferrules, HELP!! Guys,Back to the old habit of using nose grease to lube ferrules. DON'T nosegrease causes fine grit to stick to ferrules and will eventually causeferreules to work loose, use dry soap ( little bars from hotels workgreat)grit will not stick to dry soap and will help to lube ferrules.bret Several months ago, someone mentioned rubbing the male ferrule withwaxed paper to lubricate them. I tried it, and it seems to work withouthaving grit adhere to the waxed ferrule. The wax layer is also verythin and doesn't appear to affect fit.Scott Wilson from sats@gte.net Mon Sep 14 00:13:29 1998 Subject: A cabin by a lake (trip report) I got to give a workout to that bass rod I built up from the blankDaveLewis sold me. It works great. I didn't try any REAL big hair bugs on itbutI don't fish many of them anyway. The woman who introduced us to the cabin called it, "going to theRiver."and 20 years ago the water was high enough to join several of the smalllakes inthe area into a (more or less) river. They're no more then sink holesfilled aboutas clear as it gets. You can be gliding over 15ft of water and see everydetail on the bottom. The lake falls off on all sides. The edges are covered by grass, about6to 8 ft. tall. Only about 6 inches stick out of the water. It would be agood lake for float tubes. Only one reported alligator in over 12 years. (Aguest book in the cabin records things of note. Looking through it wefoundone visit we'd caught over 50 bream and several bass.) The fish don't hold where you'd expect them. They're back in the grass ordeepin the middle of the lake. If you chose a dry fly, you'd better be able to putit within 6" of the grass, because the sunfish won't come out any furtherthenthat. The reason they keep back in the grass is the Bass. There are some goodsized bass in that lake. Many of them have lockjaw. A few don't: I was fishing a Dhlberg diver style Muddler minnow, late intheday. I'd cast to the edge of the grass and strip at a fast pace to get thebugdown as far as it would go. On one retrieve, a black blob detached itselffromthe lake bottom and looking me in the eye, swallowed my bug. A shortfightfollowed during which the bass tail walked across the water, before headingdeep. A few minutes later I released a medium sized bass. Many of the large Bass set in the edge of the grass, waiting for unwary"sunnys"to swim by. Open mouth -- inhale -- swallow. It's an easy life. I put a red Dahlberg about 6 inches INTO the gras. "Damn" I said. I'llsurelyhang up getting it out of there." Sure enough, as I skipped the bug out ofthegrass, it stuck on something. I started pulling in line, to clean off whatever I'd snagged, "Double Damn," I said to the clouds, "feels like I've got areal bunch of weeds on there." That's when the "bunch of weed" took off across the lake. No acrobaticsthistime. Just down to the bottom, looking for something to tangle the lineon.Luckily the lake bottom doesn't have any snags so after a few minutes, Iwaslooking at a beautiful, (but still about an inch short of florida legal)largemouth. All in all, I caught 8 largemouth, kept 8 bream and threw about as manyback. The bass went from 8in up to about 13in. Most were caught after supper. Thesmaller bass hit white spiders and the larger bass hit the Dahlberg Diver. Dave, that bass rod worked just fine! Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from Rodsofcane@aol.com Mon Sep 14 05:03:06 1998 Subject: Unstuck ferrules,Thanks!! Well I got my rod apart, and here is how I did it! I used a scrape 2x4 cut inthe center about 2" in lenght to the desired width of the male ferrule O.D.Placed the 2x4 into a vise, placed the rod into the opening with the flangeofthe female ferrule butted up to the 2x4 and pulled like hell. This workedreally well, and it was quick, easy, inexpensive and most of all safe fortherod! Next question, how do I clean the ferrules? I was told by a friend finesteelwool, just wanted some other opinons! Kent K. AndersonNashville, TN from cpence@mwci.net Mon Sep 14 07:06:27 1998 199807:02:59 -0500 Subject: RE: A cabin by a lake (trip report) Terry - Just a suggestion, but your small lake bass fishing is very similar to the Indiana/Illinois pond fishing I do. I expect that if you tie the Dahlbergs with a mono weed guard (I use #10 Mustad stinger hooks and30# hard mason mono) and actually cast into the grass, pads, logs, sticks, twigs, and all the other things that accumulate in these waters you maydo well. I fish lilly pad fields by wading them and casting over 30 feet of pads into the "clear" water beyond (just scum out there). Most of the cast is fished -in- the pads, and hang-ups are rare. I really don't think I miss many fish because of the guard. I also use a 17-lb tippet, and zap-a-gap leader connection to avoid scum- catching knots. The trick is then to keep the bass on -top- of the pads, which may be easier in Illinois than it would be with a Florida monster-bass. This set-up works well for hopping the bug over the scum and into open pockets, too. --Craig ---------- Subject: A cabin by a lake (trip report) I got to give a workout to that bass rod I built up from the blankDaveLewis sold me. It works great. I didn't try any REAL big hair bugs on it butI don't fish many of them anyway. The woman who introduced us to the cabin called it, "going to theRiver."and 20 years ago the water was high enough to join several of the small lakes inthe area into a (more or less) river. They're no more then sink holes filled aboutas clear as it gets. You can be gliding over 15ft of water and see everydetail on the bottom. The lake falls off on all sides. The edges are covered by grass, about 6to 8 ft. tall. Only about 6 inches stick out of the water. It would be agood lake for float tubes. Only one reported alligator in over 12 years. (Aguest book in the cabin records things of note. Looking through it we foundone visit we'd caught over 50 bream and several bass.) The fish don't hold where you'd expect them. They're back in the grass or deepin the middle of the lake. If you chose a dry fly, you'd better be able to putit within 6" of the grass, because the sunfish won't come out any further thenthat. The reason they keep back in the grass is the Bass. There are some goodsized bass in that lake. Many of them have lockjaw. A few don't: I was fishing a Dhlberg diver style Muddler minnow, late in theday. I'd cast to the edge of the grass and strip at a fast pace to get the bugdown as far as it would go. On one retrieve, a black blob detached itself fromthe lake bottom and looking me in the eye, swallowed my bug. A short fightfollowed during which the bass tail walked across the water, before headingdeep. A few minutes later I released a medium sized bass. Many of the large Bass set in the edge of the grass, waiting for unwary "sunnys"to swim by. Open mouth -- inhale -- swallow. It's an easy life. I put a red Dahlberg about 6 inches INTO the gras. "Damn" I said. I'll surelyhang up getting it out of there." Sure enough, as I skipped the bug out of thegrass, it stuck on something. I started pulling in line, to clean off whatever I'd snagged, "Double Damn," I said to the clouds, "feels like I've got areal bunch of weeds on there." That's when the "bunch of weed" took off across the lake. No acrobatics thistime. Just down to the bottom, looking for something to tangle the line on.Luckily the lake bottom doesn't have any snags so after a few minutes, I waslooking at a beautiful, (but still about an inch short of florida legal)largemouth. All in all, I caught 8 largemouth, kept 8 bream and threw about as many back.The bass went from 8in up to about 13in. Most were caught after supper. Thesmaller bass hit white spiders and the larger bass hit the Dahlberg Diver. Dave, that bass rod worked just fine! Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net WINMAIL.DAT Name: WINMAIL.DATType: unspecified type (application/octet- stream)Encoding: x-uuencode from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Sep 14 08:17:54 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2b6);Mon, 14Sep 1998 09:26:02 -0400 Subject: Portland Area... This is not at all related to rodmaking, but I was wondering if anyone on the list is working in the Portland area. Perhaps if you worked there recently, I would love to hear from you. Graduation is around the corner and would like to identify some contacts and business head quarters. Thanks, and sorry for the bandwidth.Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from Fallcreek9@aol.com Mon Sep 14 08:34:57 1998 Subject: Re: Over varnish In a message dated 9/13/98 11:27:59 PM Central Daylight Time,ljrp@penn.comwrites: Dick: Several years ago I was told by a rodmaker that he striped rodswhilemaintaining the wraps intact by dipping the sections into remover in asimilarmanner we use for varnishing. I think he maintained that if one is carefulabout leaving the section in the remover for due time and careful aboutremoving the varnish, etc., the process worked out ok for him. Do notknowwhat remover was used, how long he left the shaft in the muck, or hisprocedure for removal after pulling from the tube. He did mentionagitatingthe solution while the rod was in the tube, and maybe requiring more thanonedip. I have not tried the procedure; however, the above may be a startingpoint. Regards,Richard Tyree from ljrp@penn.com Mon Sep 14 08:39:41 1998 Subject: Re: Over varnish Appreciate the reply, where are you? I'm in central Pa Fallcreek9@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 9/13/98 11:27:59 PM Central Daylight Time,ljrp@penn.comwrites: Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu I have a wonderful Montague Redwing 9 ft trout size; beautifulmetalwork; great ferrule welts; silver seat with soldered reel pocketall original including ????many intermediates and decal wonderful redanodized aluminum case with machined brass cap. Question is is thereaway to strip the varnish from the rod and leave the windings intact? >> Dick: Several years ago I was told by a rodmaker that he striped rodswhilemaintaining the wraps intact by dipping the sections into remover in asimilarmanner we use for varnishing. I think he maintained that if one iscarefulabout leaving the section in the remover for due time and careful aboutremoving the varnish, etc., the process worked out ok for him. Do notknowwhat remover was used, how long he left the shaft in the muck, or hisprocedure for removal after pulling from the tube. He did mentionagitatingthe solution while the rod was in the tube, and maybe requiring morethan onedip. I have not tried the procedure; however, the above may be a startingpoint. Regards,Richard Tyree from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Mon Sep 14 08:52:10 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id IAA22638 for (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id IAA20633 for ; Mon, 14 Sep1998 08:52:08 Subject: Re: Unstuck ferrules,Thanks!! 3M sells little foam-backed abrasive pads for cleaning fly line. IfI'm putting my rod together streamside and the ferrules seem a littletight, I've got the pad right in my vest anyway and it works fine. I cuta narrow strip from a pad and glued it to a short, thin dowel for cleaningthe female. I've got an idea to make a ferrule plug with this stuff, tohave a cleaner and plug in one.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Mon, 14 Sep 1998 Rodsofcane@aol.com wrote: Well I got my rod apart, and here is how I did it! I used a scrape 2x4 cutinthe center about 2" in lenght to the desired width of the male ferrule O.D.Placed the 2x4 into a vise, placed the rod into the opening with theflange ofthe female ferrule butted up to the 2x4 and pulled like hell. This workedreally well, and it was quick, easy, inexpensive and most of all safe fortherod! Next question, how do I clean the ferrules? I was told by a friend finesteelwool, just wanted some other opinons! Kent K. AndersonNashville, TN from eestlow@srminc.com Mon Sep 14 09:56:36 1998 8625667F.0052B5E4 ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 10:03:25 -0500 Subject: Re: "THE FORCE" praise Is the rod just streched or is it reengineered through HEXROD or other?2pc? 3pc?-Ed Nodewrrior@aol.com on 09/12/98 12:01:36 PM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: "THE FORCE" praise Gentlemen,If anybody wants to make a teriffic 8'6" rod, consider stretcing Wayne's 8'6wt. I just finished one for a guy, and he thinks I'm some kinda genius (Imentioned Wayne and PHY at least 5 times).It throws a 6 beautifully but as a bonus, a 5DT is a good, more delicateoption if the hoppers cool off and a PMD hatch comes off- the guy's leaving And being a parabolic, there isn't such a huge dimension in the butt andtheattendant weight to go with a .380 or more butt that would be necessaryforamore traditional taper.MANY thanks to Wayne for first, pubishing the taper, and second,recommendingusing this taper to base this my 8'6" on at Grayrock. Rob Hoffhines from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Sep 14 10:55:19 1998 Subject: Re: Stuck ferrules, HELP!! In a message dated 9/13/98 10:11:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time,swilson1@WHC.NETwrites: If nickle silver ferrules are fit properly there should be no need forlubrication, just wipe then clean every time that you put themtogether.Dell Coppock This is fine for the people that live in a dry enough climate that doesn'toxidize nickle silver, or those fortunate enough to be able to fish allyear 'round (take your rod out and clean the ferrule every week).But there is a closed season in the area I like to fish that is six monthslong. If I give my ferrules a thin wax coat occasionally there is nooxidation, and I never have a stuck ferrule problem. Years ago when Ididn't wax my ferrules I found that when I noticed them not goingtogether nicely I usually didn't have the proper materials to cleanthe ferrule with me (setting up the rod streamside). Just wiping them on my shirt didn't clean them enough. A thin coat of wax - and the wax paper does work wonderfully - and no problems at all. The wax keeps the nickel silver from oxidizing as well as lubricating them. Darryl from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Sep 14 12:16:03 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Stuck ferrules, HELP!! 7bit Stuart and Tony,Nose grease can pick up small bits of dirt, et. and make a pumice thatcaneventually loosen the ferrule fit- try soap-it washes off.Works for me, anyway.Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Sep 14 12:16:06 1998 Subject: Re: Splitting vs cutting cane David,Splitting follows the grain (supposedly ) while cutting may not. Cuttingalso leaves a saw curf thereby wasting more cane. If you're into a majoroperation with a milling machine and building many rods cutting wouldspeedyour operation. Of course when we plane a taper we cut across the grainbuthopefully we do it equally on both sides so we have an intact central core-sawn strips may not lend themselves to equal planing, one side havingmoretruncated fibers than the other.Regards,Hank. from CALucker@aol.com Mon Sep 14 12:21:48 1998 Subject: Re: refinishing SF Winston made rods with surprisingly narrow grips. The ridges are thenarural result of the softer part of the cork ringswearing away leaving thestronger parts. The high points should not be the spaces between thecorkswhere the glue may have creeped to the surface -- I don't think Winstonwouldhave made the mistake of using that much glue on its grips. Leave your grip alone. That's typical slim Winston. Chris Lucker from FlyTyr@southshore.com Mon Sep 14 13:03:11 1998 (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA02436 for ;Mon, 14 Sep1998 12:04:13 - 0500 Subject: Re: Stuck ferrules, HELP!! I guess I will keep the nose grease on my nose. Thanks for the warning,hope tostart using metal ferrules again soon.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: Stuart and Tony,Nose grease can pick up small bits of dirt, et. and make a pumice thatcaneventually loosen the ferrule fit- try soap-it washes off.Works for me, anyway.Regards,Hank. from ghinde@inconnect.com Mon Sep 14 13:31:20 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Over varnish Dick; It has been my experience that you will be much happier if you just tookthe time to measure the location and length of each intermediate wrap(justlike doing the guides), and then removed all old varnish. Any varnish lefton the rod after dipping in stripper will be soft and/or cloudy. This iswhat makes refinishing rods with intermediates fun! My record is 489wrapson one rod.GeorgeGreys River Rod Co.ghinde@inconnect.com ----------From: Dick Fogel Subject: Over varnishDate: Sunday, September 13, 1998 10:17 PM I have a wonderful Montague Redwing 9 ft trout size; beautifulmetalwork; great ferrule welts; silver seat with soldered reel pocketall original including ????many intermediates and decal wonderful redanodized aluminum case with machined brass cap. Question is is there away to strip the varnish from the rod and leave the windings intact?? Itappears the varnish is all original but someone gave the rod a poorovervarnish!! Ken Cole wrote: SteveJust got back from that area with my first rod.Are you in that area or are you traveling? Ken C. from GLohkamp@aol.com Mon Sep 14 14:53:38 1998 Subject: Northwest Rod builders 1999. L would like to thank everyone again that attended the meeting in 1997lwas little surprised at the turn out, we had 60 makers in all. l had a greattime putting it together and look forward to this coming spring to doing itagain. The dates will be ironed out soon the location is in Troutdale Oregonjust east of Portland . The meeting will be sponsored by the NorthwestFlyfishers (home town trout club) lf any one has any ideas commentssuggestions please fell free to contact me. Thank you Gary Lohkamp 18531 se Tibbets ct Gresham Oregon 97030Glohkamp@aol.com from ljrp@penn.com Mon Sep 14 15:24:43 1998 Subject: Re: Over varnish You certainly have a good deal of patience. is it possible to scan picturestothis site?? George wrote: Dick; It has been my experience that you will be much happier if you just tookthe time to measure the location and length of each intermediate wrap(justlike doing the guides), and then removed all old varnish. Any varnish lefton the rod after dipping in stripper will be soft and/or cloudy. This iswhat makes refinishing rods with intermediates fun! My record is 489wrapson one rod.GeorgeGreys River Rod Co.ghinde@inconnect.com ----------From: Dick Fogel Subject: Over varnishDate: Sunday, September 13, 1998 10:17 PM I have a wonderful Montague Redwing 9 ft trout size; beautifulmetalwork; great ferrule welts; silver seat with soldered reel pocketall original including ????many intermediates and decal wonderful redanodized aluminum case with machined brass cap. Question is is thereaway to strip the varnish from the rod and leave the windings intact??Itappears the varnish is all original but someone gave the rod a poorovervarnish!! Ken Cole wrote: SteveJust got back from that area with my first rod.Are you in that area or are you traveling? Ken C. from bobbo@buffnet.net Mon Sep 14 16:39:17 1998 bybuffnet4.buffnet.net (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA26388 for via smap(V2.0) Subject: Re: refinishing Thanks,Bob At 01:20 PM 9/14/98 EDT, you wrote:SF Winston made rods with surprisingly narrow grips. The ridges are thenarural result of the softer part of the cork ringswearing away leavingthestronger parts. The high points should not be the spaces between thecorkswhere the glue may have creeped to the surface -- I don't think Winstonwouldhave made the mistake of using that much glue on its grips. Leave your grip alone. That's typical slim Winston. Chris Lucker from rcurry@top.monad.net Mon Sep 14 17:51:01 1998 Subject: Re: Over varnish Dick Fogel wrote:Question is is there away to strip the varnish from the rod and leave the windings intact?? Dick,Most old varnishes are not phenolic based, thus they may be gentlyremoved with alcohol. I use a mixture of 3 parts methyl hydrate, onepart paint thinner (to slow evaporation), and, if I need more "bite",one part acetone. This mixture is applied liberally with a rag. Keep thecane wet for a few minutes, (trial and error) then gently wipe off.Usually, you can remove one layer of varnish at a time, and often don'tneed to re-varnish. Take your time and the windings will be safe.If the varnish is a phenolic (Bakelite) then it may be completelyresistant to this approach. Best regards,Reed from ljrp@penn.com Mon Sep 14 17:58:32 1998 Subject: Re: Over varnish It appears that the overvarnish is also 30 or 40 years old it appears to besomewhat soft what are the chances that it is phenolic. And Thanks fortheGreat Advice. Best Dick I would say the rod is from the teens ortwenties. Reed F. Curry wrote: Dick Fogel wrote:Question is is there away to strip the varnish from the rod and leave the windings intact??Dick,Most old varnishes are not phenolic based, thus they may be gentlyremoved with alcohol. I use a mixture of 3 parts methyl hydrate, onepart paint thinner (to slow evaporation), and, if I need more "bite",one part acetone. This mixture is applied liberally with a rag. Keep thecane wet for a few minutes, (trial and error) then gently wipe off.Usually, you can remove one layer of varnish at a time, and often don'tneed to re-varnish. Take your time and the windings will be safe.If the varnish is a phenolic (Bakelite) then it may be completelyresistant to this approach.Best regards,Reed from mbleak@telepath.com Mon Sep 14 18:48:16 1998 telepath.com(8.9.0/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA12912 for ;Mon, 14 Sep Subject: PETA & "Wheaties" Fisherman on Wheaties Box. On Aug. 25, 1998, People for theEthical Treatment of Animals (PETA) officials released a statementwhereinthey asked General Mills to reconsider featuring a fisherman on Wheatiescereal boxes beginning in October 1998. PETA asserts that fishing isviolent,cruel, and injures animals while not requiring any athletic skill. On Aug.26,1998, General Mills officials confirmed that they will display the sportfisherman on Wheaties boxes, beginning on or around Oct. 1, 1998. [AssocPress]Forgive the off topic, but I had noticed some references to PETA whilereading the archives, here's an update.BTW, should anyone like a large weekly mailing of federal and statehappenings in fisheries (US) they might seek info from the following: *************************************************************** from Nodewrrior@aol.com Mon Sep 14 18:59:38 1998 Subject: Re: "THE FORCE" praise To Ed,I re-engineered i.e. stretched it thru the online hexrod keeping allparameters the same and kept it a 2pc. I'm most impressed with how little this 81/2 6wt weighs as compared toanyother I've run across (apart from hollow builts). Hoffhines from jwilcox@netsync.net Mon Sep 14 20:34:31 1998 quartz.netsync.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA14906 for; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:34:27 -0400 Subject: stuck ferrules boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0087_01BDE027.5AF69DE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0087_01BDE027.5AF69DE0 i just got back from the catskill gathering and was catching up on the =list chat. i keep a small container of silicone(well sealed) in my =vest. if a ferrule becomes stuck, i wick a few drops of the silicone =into the ferrule with a small plastic stick. wait a few seconds and the =ferrule should pop apart with an easy pull. wipe the silicone off the =male and female ferrule and you should be back in business. this method =is particularly helpful on ferrules that seem to oxidize together after =a long day on the stream. i know this topic is open to debate, but i =have found that some streams are particularly good about oxidizing =ferrules over the course of a long day. ------=_NextPart_000_0087_01BDE027.5AF69DE0 i just got back from the catskill = to debate, but i have found that some streams are particularly good = oxidizing ferrules over the course of a long =day. ------=_NextPart_000_0087_01BDE027.5AF69DE0-- from russettrods@hotmail.com Mon Sep 14 21:03:39 1998 Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:02:54 PDT Subject: Re: Portland Area... Jon Your graduating? Which Portland area? There are more than one. Larry ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Sep 14 21:06:07 1998 Subject: Re: Over varnish RO>In a message dated 9/13/98 11:27:59 PM Central Daylight Time,ljrp@penn.comRO>writes: RO> Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu RO>RO> I have a wonderful Montague Redwing 9 ft trout size; beautifulRO> metalwork; great ferrule welts; silver seat with soldered reel pocketRO> all original including ????many intermediates and decal wonderfulredRO> anodized aluminum case with machined brass cap. Question is isthere aRO> way to strip the varnish from the rod and leave the windings intact? RO>Dick: Several years ago I was told by a rodmaker that he striped rodswhileRO>maintaining the wraps intact by dipping the sections into remover in asimilRO>manner we use for varnishing. I think he maintained that if one iscarefulRO>about leaving the section in the remover for due time and careful aboutRO>removing the varnish, etc., the process worked out ok for him. Do notknowRO>what remover was used, how long he left the shaft in the muck, or hisRO>procedure for removal after pulling from the tube. He did mentionagitatingRO>the solution while the rod was in the tube, and maybe requiring morethan onRO>dip. I have not tried the procedure; however, the above may be astartingRO>point. RO>Regards,RO>Richard Tyree I would think you'd need to neutralize the stripper left in the wrapsand cane gaps or you'd end up with a mess later. Don from ghinde@inconnect.com Mon Sep 14 23:14:20 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Over varnish IF you are asking if I can scan a picture of the rod with 489 wraps theanser is no. I do not have a scanner. I don't even have a picture or therod. I shipped it to the client in Atlanta as soon as I finished it whichwas several years ago. The rod was a H&I President 91/2' long, 3 piecewith 2 tips. A real dog of a rod. Had so many red black and gold wraps itreminded me of a cheap hooker.George Greys River Rod Co.ghinde@inconnect.com ----------From: Dick Fogel Subject: Re: Over varnishDate: Monday, September 14, 1998 2:25 PM You certainly have a good deal of patience. is it possible to scanpictures tothis site?? George wrote: Dick; It has been my experience that you will be much happier if you justtookthe time to measure the location and length of each intermediate wrap(justlike doing the guides), and then removed all old varnish. Any varnishlefton the rod after dipping in stripper will be soft and/or cloudy. Thisiswhat makes refinishing rods with intermediates fun! My record is 489wrapson one rod.GeorgeGreys River Rod Co.ghinde@inconnect.com ----------From: Dick Fogel Subject: Over varnishDate: Sunday, September 13, 1998 10:17 PM I have a wonderful Montague Redwing 9 ft trout size; beautifulmetalwork; great ferrule welts; silver seat with soldered reel pocketall original including ????many intermediates and decal wonderfulredanodized aluminum case with machined brass cap. Question is isthere away to strip the varnish from the rod and leave the windings intact??Itappears the varnish is all original but someone gave the rod a poorovervarnish!! Ken Cole wrote: SteveJust got back from that area with my first rod.Are you in that area or are you traveling? Ken C. from saweiss@flash.net Mon Sep 14 23:45:43 1998 Subject: Re: stuck ferrules boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0036_01BDE031.BB56F720" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BDE031.BB56F720 -----Original Message-----From: James Wilcox Date: Monday, September 14, 1998 7:43 PMSubject: stuck ferrules i just got back from the catskill gathering and was catching up on =the list chat. i keep a small container of silicone(well sealed) in my =vest. if a ferrule becomes stuck, i wick a few drops of the silicone =into the ferrule with a small plastic stick. wait a few seconds and the =ferrule should pop apart with an easy pull. wipe the silicone off the =male and female ferrule and you should be back in business. this method =is particularly helpful on ferrules that seem to oxidize together after =a long day on the stream. i know this topic is open to debate, but i =have found that some streams are particularly good about oxidizing =ferrules over the course of a long day. James,What type or brand of silicone do you use that is thin enough to =wick into that tight a joint?Steve Weiss ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BDE031.BB56F720 -----Original = rodmakers <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= ferrulesi just got back from the = few drops of the silicone into the ferrule with a small plastic = wait a few seconds and the ferrule should pop apart with an easy = wipe the silicone off the male and female ferrule and you should be = open to debate, but i have found that some streams are particularly = about oxidizing ferrules over the course of a long day. James,What type or brand of silicone= that is thin enough to wick into that tight a joint? Weiss ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BDE031.BB56F720-- from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Tue Sep 15 07:28:17 1998 0400 Subject: Re[2]: planing forms, a question Hey, is the tip side of our forms tapered? ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: planing forms, a question Author: at Tcpgate Brian, If your question is "Why not use planing forms with an untaperedgroove?", the answer might be that the tip end of a tip section is oftenonly .030" inches thick, and consequently the groove in an untapered formcould therefore not be any deeper than .030 for planing a tip section.However, a groove this shallow is not deep enough to support the muchthicker butt end of a the tip section while you are planing it. This is howa tapered groove is helpful, even though the forms can be adjusted, as youpoint out. Tom Penrose-----Original Message----- Subject: planing forms, a question Hi list , I'd like to ask a question which might have an obvious answerbutI can,t figure out why .All plans for forms mention that a graduated taper has to be cut,or filedinto the form .The target behind deepening this groove from tip end of theplane to butt end is apparently to accomodate the taper of the finalproduct.Ok folks,here's the question .isn't this accomplished by opening each station pointto the required dist. anyway??It's going to produce more stress on thebolts, I realise that, but not that much more that I can see. Alsomathematically the taper would be easier to adjust on the form ratherthancombining the sloping taper in the groove + the induced taper by adjustingeach bolt.Thanking in advance Brian S. from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Tue Sep 15 07:38:11 1998 0400 Subject: planing forms O.K....I'm a bozo...it's 8AM, I have 800 emails and I thought I was replying to my friend and not the list...please ignore this last post....(obviously I have not reached the final planing step on my first rod or I would know the answer to this question).... from ljrp@penn.com Tue Sep 15 07:46:07 1998 Subject: Re: Over varnish Good point, how is that done?? flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: RO>In a message dated 9/13/98 11:27:59 PM Central Daylight Time,ljrp@penn.comRO>writes: RO> RO> Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu RO>RO> I have a wonderful Montague Redwing 9 ft trout size; beautifulRO> metalwork; great ferrule welts; silver seat with soldered reelpocketRO> all original including ????many intermediates and decal wonderfulredRO> anodized aluminum case with machined brass cap. Question is isthere aRO> way to strip the varnish from the rod and leave the windings intact? RO>Dick: Several years ago I was told by a rodmaker that he striped rodswhileRO>maintaining the wraps intact by dipping the sections into remover ina similRO>manner we use for varnishing. I think he maintained that if one iscarefulRO>about leaving the section in the remover for due time and carefulaboutRO>removing the varnish, etc., the process worked out ok for him. Do notknowRO>what remover was used, how long he left the shaft in the muck, orhisRO>procedure for removal after pulling from the tube. He did mentionagitatingRO>the solution while the rod was in the tube, and maybe requiring morethan onRO>dip. I have not tried the procedure; however, the above may be astartingRO>point. RO>Regards,RO>Richard Tyree I would think you'd need to neutralize the stripper left in the wrapsand cane gaps or you'd end up with a mess later. Don from ljrp@penn.com Tue Sep 15 07:50:05 1998 Subject: Re: Over varnish Thanks for info I had a wonderful Leonard Hunt Salmon Rod with wrapsaboutevery 3/8 in in never did count them but it was beautiful. dark caneoxidizedferrules George wrote: IF you are asking if I can scan a picture of the rod with 489 wraps theanser is no. I do not have a scanner. I don't even have a picture or therod. I shipped it to the client in Atlanta as soon as I finished it whichwas several years ago. The rod was a H&I President 91/2' long, 3 piecewith 2 tips. A real dog of a rod. Had so many red black and gold wraps itreminded me of a cheap hooker.GeorgeGreys River Rod Co.ghinde@inconnect.com ----------From: Dick Fogel Subject: Re: Over varnishDate: Monday, September 14, 1998 2:25 PM You certainly have a good deal of patience. is it possible to scanpictures tothis site?? George wrote: Dick; It has been my experience that you will be much happier if you justtookthe time to measure the location and length of each intermediatewrap(justlike doing the guides), and then removed all old varnish. Any varnishlefton the rod after dipping in stripper will be soft and/or cloudy. Thisiswhat makes refinishing rods with intermediates fun! My record is489wrapson one rod.GeorgeGreys River Rod Co.ghinde@inconnect.com ----------From: Dick Fogel Subject: Over varnishDate: Sunday, September 13, 1998 10:17 PM I have a wonderful Montague Redwing 9 ft trout size; beautifulmetalwork; great ferrule welts; silver seat with soldered reelpocketall original including ????many intermediates and decal wonderfulredanodized aluminum case with machined brass cap. Question is isthere away to strip the varnish from the rod and leave the windingsintact??Itappears the varnish is all original but someone gave the rod a poorovervarnish!! Ken Cole wrote: SteveJust got back from that area with my first rod.Are you in that area or are you traveling? Ken C. from caneboy@xtn.net Tue Sep 15 11:41:46 1998 Subject: Stuck ferrules The fellow that had the stuck ferrule on his Heddon rang a bell with me.Someone, who's name escapes me, advised me to heat the ferrule briefly,and then pull the sections apart. A small alcohol burner with denaturedalcohol will do the trick. A few seconds at the top of the flame will beenough. Good luck, hope it works. from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Sep 15 11:56:33 1998 Subject: World's Best Finish Okay maybe it isn't, I just got finished reading an old Herter'scatalog and everything was "The Best" or "World's Greatest"so I got caught up in the hype. But - over the last year I had been forced (kicking and screaming)to use polyurethane varnish. People just didn't like the tung oilfinish I did. Most of them asked when I was going to finish therod when they saw them. The Spar varnish finish they looked at and said "That's nice." They positively gushed when they saw thedipped polyurethane finishes. All the last 5 rods I've made the guys who ordered them wanted a polyurethane finish. So, what were the knocks against polyurethane? If it gets chipped you can't repair it.Yes you can. Use a very fine artists brush, fill in the ding, afterit is thoroughly dry use fine sandpaper and polishing compound.With a little practice you can repair it so that the repair isinvisible. If you should ever want to it can't be stripped off.This can also be done. I tested a varnish stripper I saw ina local hardware store that said "also strips polyurethanevarnishes" and By Golly the varnish peeled right off. Polyurethane is too glossy, looks too much like plastic.There are semi gloss and low gloss formulations outnow. The low gloss looks a lot like Spar varnish whenit's dry, except it's clear rather than slightly amber colored.You can mix stain in with polyurethane if you really needto match a certain color. This could be a plus or minus depending on how youview it - Polyurethane makes a rod stiffer. It has beenthe most noticeable in the 2 weight rods I have beenmaking. Two rods (actually three, but one was sold asa blank) both two weights, one with a tung oil finish,the other with a polyurethane finish. The polyurethanefinished one is noticeably stiffer. Otherwise they areas identical as I can make them. Same culm, sametaper. Comments?P.S. Just talking about surface finishes. I haven't triedimpregnating a rod. Darryl from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Tue Sep 15 12:53:14 1998 SMTP Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:52:53 +0200 Subject: Adress from Austria MAA10055 Dear Friends! Some weeks ago i had a "computer-crash" and lost some important e- mails,also the one from my austrian friend Alex - can anyone give me hismail-adress? Thanks in advance Stefan-- S. Grau`s * atelier edelweiss *Gespliesste Angelruten _ Bamboo RodsAlpine Fliegenfischerschule & GuidingAlpine Flyfishing School & Guiding Brunnadernstr. 11 3006 Berne/SwitzerlandPhone: ++41 (0) 31 352 42 88 ab 19.00 / from 7.pme-mail: gespliesst@bluewin.ch from tom@cet-inc.com Tue Sep 15 13:27:11 1998 0000 Subject: Re: World's Best Finish Darryl,Two other advantages to using poly that come to mind.1. I can use the same varnish in my dip tube for a year without changing it.I couldn't get away with that using spar.2. I can leave a poly finished rod in a hot car all day without anyproblems.I've switched to Pratt & Lambert poly for new rods. I guess I wouldconsiderspar for refinishing an old classic.Tom Whittle----- Original Message----- Subject: World's Best Finish Comments?P.S. Just talking about surface finishes. I haven't triedimpregnating a rod. Darryl from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Tue Sep 15 13:33:07 1998 (modemcable16.174.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: World's Best Finish Hi Darryl, Have you (or anyone else) tried the polymerized, high-lustre tung oil? Richard -----Original Message----- SalarFly@aol.com Subject: World's Best Finish Okay maybe it isn't, I just got finished reading an old Herter'scatalog and everything was "The Best" or "World's Greatest"so I got caught up in the hype. But - over the last year I had been forced (kicking and screaming)to use polyurethane varnish. People just didn't like the tung oilfinish I did. Most of them asked when I was going to finish therod when they saw them. The Spar varnish finish they looked at and said "That's nice." They positively gushed when they saw thedipped polyurethane finishes. All the last 5 rods I've made the guys who ordered them wanted a polyurethane finish. So, what were the knocks against polyurethane? If it gets chipped you can't repair it.Yes you can. Use a very fine artists brush, fill in the ding, afterit is thoroughly dry use fine sandpaper and polishing compound.With a little practice you can repair it so that the repair isinvisible. If you should ever want to it can't be stripped off.This can also be done. I tested a varnish stripper I saw ina local hardware store that said "also strips polyurethanevarnishes" and By Golly the varnish peeled right off. Polyurethane is too glossy, looks too much like plastic.There are semi gloss and low gloss formulations outnow. The low gloss looks a lot like Spar varnish whenit's dry, except it's clear rather than slightly amber colored.You can mix stain in with polyurethane if you really needto match a certain color. This could be a plus or minus depending on how youview it - Polyurethane makes a rod stiffer. It has beenthe most noticeable in the 2 weight rods I have beenmaking. Two rods (actually three, but one was sold asa blank) both two weights, one with a tung oil finish,the other with a polyurethane finish. The polyurethanefinished one is noticeably stiffer. Otherwise they areas identical as I can make them. Same culm, sametaper. Comments?P.S. Just talking about surface finishes. I haven't triedimpregnating a rod. Darryl from harry37@epix.net Tue Sep 15 13:53:27 1998 SMTP idOAA12299 Subject: Re: World's Best Finish Tom Whittle wrote: Darryl,Two other advantages to using poly that come to mind.1. I can use the same varnish in my dip tube for a year without changingit.I couldn't get away with that using spar.2. I can leave a poly finished rod in a hot car all day without anyproblems.I've switched to Pratt & Lambert poly for new rods. I guess I wouldconsiderspar for refinishing an old classic.Tom Whittle----- Original Message-----From: SalarFly@aol.com Date: Tuesday, September 15, 1998 12:58 PMSubject: World's Best Finish Comments?P.S. Just talking about surface finishes. I haven't triedimpregnating a rod. Darryl Any thoughts on applying it to wraps on an impregnated blank? Greg from ljrp@penn.com Tue Sep 15 14:09:14 1998 Subject: Re:Graphite Fix Anyone have any ideas on how to fix a T&T graphite when the tip meets thebuttover the dowel and the fit is loose?? Should be some type of epoxy tobuild upthe dowel?? Greg Kuntz wrote: Tom Whittle wrote: Darryl,Two other advantages to using poly that come to mind.1. I can use the same varnish in my dip tube for a year without changingit.I couldn't get away with that using spar.2. I can leave a poly finished rod in a hot car all day without anyproblems.I've switched to Pratt & Lambert poly for new rods. I guess I wouldconsiderspar for refinishing an old classic.Tom Whittle----- Original Message-----From: SalarFly@aol.com Date: Tuesday, September 15, 1998 12:58 PMSubject: World's Best Finish Comments?P.S. Just talking about surface finishes. I haven't triedimpregnating a rod. Darryl Any thoughts on applying it to wraps on an impregnated blank? Greg from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Tue Sep 15 14:24:07 1998 Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:21:02 -0500 Subject: Southern Rodmakers Gathering Friends, Here's the schedule of activities for October 1-3. We're up to 40commitments and counting. Looks like we're going to have a good timeand learn quite a bit. Join us if you can. I'll have some good strongLouisiana coffee made when you get there Thursday morning! Southern Rodmakers GatheringThursday, October 1, 1998 8:30 Coffee and Registration 9:00 One solution to acquiring your own tools - Tony Spezio 10:00 Break for "show and tell" 10:30 Tom Smithwick-George Barnes Sharpening Wheel -- HarryBoyd 11:00 Making your own Scraper Plane - Kurt Loup 12:00 Lunch (on your own) 2:00 Tips and Tricks for better rods - Richard Tyree 3:00 The Morgan Hand Mill (if available) - Bill Lamberson 4:00 Making your own ferrules - Leo Eck 5:00 Door Prize Drawing(s) - Break 6:00 Arundaria amabilis - adventures in Tonkin Cane -Harold Demarest Friday, October 2 8:30 - 1:30 Beginning Builders Workshop - Wayne Cattanach Saturday, October 3 8:30 - 1:30(?) Beginning Builders Workshop, continued. WayneCattanach from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Tue Sep 15 14:30:29 1998 0500 Subject: Re: Graphite Fix Dick,If it is a spigot type ferrule, epoxy will work fine. I had that sameproblemafew years ago (before bamboo) with an East Branch 2 weight graphite rod. Iappliedthe epoxy, let it cure, and smoothed it to perfectly round with 800 gritwet-drysandpaper. Then I fit the cylinder to the shape of the tip over butt. Workedlikea charm.Hope this helps,Harry Boyd Dick Fogel wrote: Anyone have any ideas on how to fix a T&T graphite when the tip meetsthe buttover the dowel and the fit is loose?? Should be some type of epoxy tobuild upthe dowel?? from ljrp@penn.com Tue Sep 15 14:50:37 1998 Subject: Re: Graphite Fix Thanks a bunch Best Dick Harry Boyd wrote: Dick,If it is a spigot type ferrule, epoxy will work fine. I had that sameproblem afew years ago (before bamboo) with an East Branch 2 weight graphiterod. Iappliedthe epoxy, let it cure, and smoothed it to perfectly round with 800 gritwet-drysandpaper. Then I fit the cylinder to the shape of the tip over butt. Workedlikea charm.Hope this helps,Harry Boyd Dick Fogel wrote: Anyone have any ideas on how to fix a T&T graphite when the tip meetsthe buttover the dowel and the fit is loose?? Should be some type of epoxy tobuildupthe dowel?? from anglport@con2.com Tue Sep 15 15:16:01 1998 Subject: Alan Medved's e-mail All,Can anyone forward me the e-mail address of Alan Medved? I promised tosendhim something at the Catskill Gathering and the e-mail address I haveisn'tdoing it.Thanks,Art from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Tue Sep 15 15:42:01 1998 Subject: Re: Graphite Fix On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, Harry Boyd wrote: Dick,If it is a spigot type ferrule, epoxy will work fine. I had that sameproblem afew years ago (before bamboo) with an East Branch 2 weight graphiterod. Iappliedthe epoxy, let it cure, and smoothed it to perfectly round with 800 gritwet-drysandpaper. Then I fit the cylinder to the shape of the tip over butt. Workedlikea charm.Hope this helps,Harry Boyd Dick Fogel wrote: Anyone have any ideas on how to fix a T&T graphite when the tip meetsthe buttover the dowel and the fit is loose?? Should be some type of epoxy tobuildupthe dowel?? If it is a beatup old rod then maybe go for a homemade remedy but for anice spigot T&T (especially a shorty) then I would send it to T&T and havea new graphite plug fitted. As for homemade remedys, I believe somefolksspray the plug with clear lacquer. A lot less work than sanding andfitting with epoxy I guess. Regards, Bob Bob Perry \|/Fly Supplies: ::==,#=#*oFlytying materials (_ /|\Flyfishing equipmentRodbuilding components from bobbo@buffnet.net Tue Sep 15 15:57:41 1998 bybuffnet4.buffnet.net (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA01403 for buffnet9.buffnet.net viasmap (V2.0) Subject: Re: Over varnish It was only a cheap hooker if you matched the hatch. ( that really wasn'tthatfunny, sorry)Bob At 10:10 PM 9/14/98 -0600, you wrote:IF you are asking if I can scan a picture of the rod with 489 wraps theanser is no. I do not have a scanner. I don't even have a picture or therod. I shipped it to the client in Atlanta as soon as I finished it whichwas several years ago. The rod was a H&I President 91/2' long, 3 piecewith 2 tips. A real dog of a rod. Had so many red black and gold wraps itreminded me of a cheap hooker.George Greys River Rod Co.ghinde@inconnect.com ----------From: Dick Fogel Subject: Re: Over varnishDate: Monday, September 14, 1998 2:25 PM You certainly have a good deal of patience. is it possible to scanpictures tothis site?? George wrote: Dick; It has been my experience that you will be much happier if you justtookthe time to measure the location and length of each intermediate wrap(justlike doing the guides), and then removed all old varnish. Any varnishlefton the rod after dipping in stripper will be soft and/or cloudy. Thisiswhat makes refinishing rods with intermediates fun! My record is 489wrapson one rod.GeorgeGreys River Rod Co.ghinde@inconnect.com ----------From: Dick Fogel Subject: Over varnishDate: Sunday, September 13, 1998 10:17 PM I have a wonderful Montague Redwing 9 ft trout size; beautifulmetalwork; great ferrule welts; silver seat with soldered reelpocketall original including ????many intermediates and decal wonderfulredanodized aluminum case with machined brass cap. Question is isthere away to strip the varnish from the rod and leave the windingsintact??Itappears the varnish is all original but someone gave the rod a poorovervarnish!! Ken Cole wrote: SteveJust got back from that area with my first rod.Are you in that area or are you traveling? Ken C. from fishion@hotmail.com Tue Sep 15 16:08:19 1998 Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:07:28 PDT Subject: Re: World's Best Finish Comments?P.S. Just talking about surface finishes. I haven't triedimpregnating a rod. Darryl Darryl,Thanks for your information about polyu's. I'm still in the 'info collecting' process and your mail was very informative.Chris A. ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from jkallo@midwest.net Tue Sep 15 16:44:05 1998 Subject: Finding Cane Hi all,My name is Joe Kallo and I am seriously considering making my firstrod. Ihave located most of the things I will (apparently) need. My first of whatwill probably be many questions for the list: if I wanted to purchace canein a smaller ammount than the minimum order allowed by Demarest, whatoptions would I have? For a variety of reasons (not the least of which ismy miniscule graduate student salary) I'd like to purchace enough cane fora couple of rods to start off with. Any help on this would be appreciated.On another note, what negative factors should I expect from a tungoilfinish (was the "hot-car" problem mentioned a few posts back directed attung finishes?)? I have used tung oil on a few pieces of furniture andreally like the finish. I'll be making rods for my own use so the "when areyou gonna put on the shellac?" question isn't a problem for me. Thank you for your response, Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from wbinn@michiana.org Tue Sep 15 16:56:37 1998 freenet.michiana.org (8.8.2/8.7.3(CICNet)) with ESMTP id QAA13293 for Subject: Re: World's Best Finish Another knock on poly has been that it can't be polished out the way atraditional spar finish can be. I've found however, that the super finepolishing compounds made by 3-M and McGuiars do a great job on poly asDarryl mentioned. If the poly finish is too glossy for your taste, use apaste type polishing compound (Turtle Wax) which will cut the gloss, (or1200-1500 wet/dry paper-but the Turtle Wax product is more gentle )andthenfinish with one of the semi-liquid fine cut componds above to restoresomeof the gloss. By the way, these compounds also work great on old finishes.Winston Binney from jourdoktorn@pilot.stjarntv.se Tue Sep 15 17:03:37 1998 with ESMTP id AAA177E for ;Tue, 15 Sep 1998 23:59:05 +0200 Subject: Cork handle cleaning problems Hi you folks out there,I cleaned the cork handle on some of my old collectible bamboo rodsrecently. I used very soft soap and after a while the cork was clean.I then noticed the ridges around the cork handle with an interval ofabout 0.2". I was told this was because the softer cork material oneach side had dissapeared when washing.Now, how do I fix this? The ridges is 0.07 - 0.09 above the rest ofthe handle. In some way I need to trim the ridges down to have asmooth surface again Which is the best way?Hope someone out there have a good suggestionBest,Jan Nystrom from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Tue Sep 15 17:17:26 1998 with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: World's Best Finish RAA31773 Richard, I used plain old Behr tung oil finish from the Home Depot on a South Bendrod Irefinished. I think this particular tung oil is really a mixture of oil andvarnish, but it was easy to apply (rag) and the gloss came up nicely. Whentheoil was dry I varnished the wraps. The refinish job is only a few monthsold, butit still looks good. IMHO Darryl's clients are missing out on a nice looking finish that doesn'tappreciably change the rod's performance. Just my $.02 though. Dennis Haftel ----------Hi Darryl, Have you (or anyone else) tried the polymerized, high-lustre tung oil? Richard -----Original Message----- SalarFly@aol.com Subject: World's Best Finish Okay maybe it isn't, I just got finished reading an old Herter'scatalog and everything was "The Best" or "World's Greatest"so I got caught up in the hype. But - over the last year I had been forced (kicking and screaming)to use polyurethane varnish. People just didn't like the tung oilfinish I did. Most of them asked when I was going to finish therod when they saw them. The Spar varnish finish they looked atand said "That's nice." They positively gushed when they saw thedipped polyurethane finishes. All the last 5 rods I've made the guyswho ordered them wanted a polyurethane finish. So, what were the knocks against polyurethane? If it gets chipped you can't repair it.Yes you can. Use a very fine artists brush, fill in the ding, afterit is thoroughly dry use fine sandpaper and polishing compound.With a little practice you can repair it so that the repair isinvisible. If you should ever want to it can't be stripped off.This can also be done. I tested a varnish stripper I saw ina local hardware store that said "also strips polyurethanevarnishes" and By Golly the varnish peeled right off. Polyurethane is too glossy, looks too much like plastic.There are semi gloss and low gloss formulations outnow. The low gloss looks a lot like Spar varnish whenit's dry, except it's clear rather than slightly amber colored.You can mix stain in with polyurethane if you really needto match a certain color. This could be a plus or minus depending on how youview it - Polyurethane makes a rod stiffer. It has beenthe most noticeable in the 2 weight rods I have beenmaking. Two rods (actually three, but one was sold asa blank) both two weights, one with a tung oil finish,the other with a polyurethane finish. The polyurethanefinished one is noticeably stiffer. Otherwise they areas identical as I can make them. Same culm, sametaper. Comments?P.S. Just talking about surface finishes. I haven't triedimpregnating a rod. Darryl from jczimny@dol.net Tue Sep 15 17:35:35 1998 Subject: Re: World's Best Finish A thought comes to mind about clarity without the plastic look. Themodified AlkydSpars. They became possible with the advent of UV inhibitors. They are theclearest of the spars with a little amber tint. Very flexible and shineenough.But, you won't chip them and easy to repair. One cannot thin them. Colonyhas avery good one.John from ljrp@penn.com Tue Sep 15 18:03:14 1998 Subject: Re: Over varnish This a great "Thanks" to all who answered my queries on Over varnish andagraphiteferrule problem. A wonderful bunch of helpful guys. Perhaps a" trait" oftheloversof the "wood" rods. Best Dick Dick Fogel wrote: Good point, how is that done?? flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: RO>In a message dated 9/13/98 11:27:59 PM Central Daylight Time,ljrp@penn.comRO>writes: RO> > RO> Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu RO>RO> I have a wonderful Montague Redwing 9 ft trout size; beautifulRO> metalwork; great ferrule welts; silver seat with soldered reelpocketRO> all original including ????many intermediates and decal wonderfulredRO> anodized aluminum case with machined brass cap. Question is isthere aRO> way to strip the varnish from the rod and leave the windingsintact? >> RO>Dick: Several years ago I was told by a rodmaker that he stripedrodswhileRO>maintaining the wraps intact by dipping the sections into removerin asimilRO>manner we use for varnishing. I think he maintained that if one iscarefulRO>about leaving the section in the remover for due time and carefulaboutRO>removing the varnish, etc., the process worked out ok for him. Donot knowRO>what remover was used, how long he left the shaft in the muck, orhisRO>procedure for removal after pulling from the tube. He did mentionagitatingRO>the solution while the rod was in the tube, and maybe requiringmore thanonRO>dip. I have not tried the procedure; however, the above may be astartingRO>point. RO>Regards,RO>Richard Tyree I would think you'd need to neutralize the stripper left in the wrapsand cane gaps or you'd end up with a mess later. Don from ragnarig@integrityol.com Tue Sep 15 18:16:42 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A7A517401F8; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:26:29 PDT Subject: Re: World's Best Finish Whilst I'm not one of those who are terribly impressed by a finish whichisreminiscent of the bar -top coatings of the sixties, your average Americanflyfisherman is generally marked by other qualities (fine though they be)than a high degree of subtlety in the realm of finishes on his sportinggoods. Further, my experience is that the more you make your hand-craftedarticles look like factory-produced, the closer you are to making a sale.That's just our "tradition" here. Love it or leave it, I always say. Another good and practical rationale for dipped finishes is that, althoughthe setup may require a little work to organize, they require far fewerman-hours for surface preparation than a rubbed-type finish, and that'sjustplain money out of SWMBO's pocketbook if you're doing it for reasonsotherthan unity with the Cosmos. And all that tedious labor will certainly notbe rewarded in the manner she seems to prefer, so why not take her to thedog track whilst the rods are a'dippin'? It's about the most forgivingprocess ever devised for finishing long, straight objects of uniformsectionand, in this sort of activity, we need all the forgiveness we can get,right? Davy -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: World's Best Finish Richard, I used plain old Behr tung oil finish from the Home Depot on a South Bendrod I refinished. I think this particular tung oil is really a mixture ofoil and varnish, but it was easy to apply (rag) and the gloss came upnicely. When the oil was dry I varnished the wraps. The refinish job isonly a few months old, but it still looks good. IMHO Darryl's clients are missing out on a nice looking finish that doesn'tappreciably change the rod's performance. Just my $.02 though. Dennis Haftel ----------Hi Darryl, Have you (or anyone else) tried the polymerized, high-lustre tung oil? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu SalarFly@aol.comSent: Tuesday, September 15, 1998 12:54 PM Subject: World's Best Finish Okay maybe it isn't, I just got finished reading an old Herter'scatalog and everything was "The Best" or "World's Greatest"so I got caught up in the hype. But - over the last year I had been forced (kicking and screaming)to use polyurethane varnish. People just didn't like the tung oilfinish I did. Most of them asked when I was going to finish therod when they saw them. The Spar varnish finish they looked atand said "That's nice." They positively gushed when they saw thedipped polyurethane finishes. All the last 5 rods I've made the guyswho ordered them wanted a polyurethane finish. So, what were the knocks against polyurethane? If it gets chipped you can't repair it.Yes you can. Use a very fine artists brush, fill in the ding, afterit is thoroughly dry use fine sandpaper and polishing compound.With a little practice you can repair it so that the repair isinvisible. If you should ever want to it can't be stripped off.This can also be done. I tested a varnish stripper I saw ina local hardware store that said "also strips polyurethanevarnishes" and By Golly the varnish peeled right off. Polyurethane is too glossy, looks too much like plastic.There are semi gloss and low gloss formulations outnow. The low gloss looks a lot like Spar varnish whenit's dry, except it's clear rather than slightly amber colored.You can mix stain in with polyurethane if you really needto match a certain color. This could be a plus or minus depending on how youview it - Polyurethane makes a rod stiffer. It has beenthe most noticeable in the 2 weight rods I have beenmaking. Two rods (actually three, but one was sold asa blank) both two weights, one with a tung oil finish,the other with a polyurethane finish. The polyurethanefinished one is noticeably stiffer. Otherwise they areas identical as I can make them. Same culm, sametaper. Comments?P.S. Just talking about surface finishes. I haven't triedimpregnating a rod. Darryl from jczimny@dol.net Tue Sep 15 18:30:52 1998 Subject: Re: World's Best Finish No spar varnish will polish as well as a harder varnish ie. Table Topvarnish.The reason for this is that spar is formulated with less resin and moredryingoil so that it will be more flexible and thus, accomodate wood movementinoutdoor applications. As the craftsman polishes a softer varnish, itnaturallymoves away from the abrasion. Harder varnishes "stand up" to thepolishingoperation and will respond to the abrasive by taking a more brilliantsheen.However, they are more subjsct to chipping. If anyone would like see this,poura small quantity of spar over a piece of glass. Then, after a few months,gently tease it off of the glass. You'll have a piece of film that will snapback onto itself like a piece a rubber. That is what makes a spar, spar.John Winston Binney wrote: Another knock on poly has been that it can't be polished out the way atraditional spar finish can be. I've found however, that the super finepolishing compounds made by 3-M and McGuiars do a great job on poly asDarryl mentioned. If the poly finish is too glossy for your taste, use apaste type polishing compound (Turtle Wax) which will cut the gloss, (or1200-1500 wet/dry paper-but the Turtle Wax product is more gentle)and thenfinish with one of the semi-liquid fine cut componds above to restoresomeof the gloss. By the way, these compounds also work great on oldfinishes.Winston Binney from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Sep 15 19:13:04 1998 Subject: Re: Re: World's Best Finish In a message dated 9/15/98 10:39:33 PM, you wrote: John - What about us brush varnishers? Can this product be brushed on andstayput, or will it run like most Polys? from LECLAIR123@aol.com Tue Sep 15 19:21:02 1998 Subject: Re: Adress from Austria Stefen,Alex's address is : Huber AlexanderGoldschlagstr.28/271150-wienAustriaEurope Hope this helps: Dave LeClairThe Fly and Rod room from rclarke@eou.edu Tue Sep 15 19:38:53 1998 Subject: Re: World's Best Finish I used some Spar urethane spray on my first rod and it turned out justfine. No idea on long term effects, but I am please with it and it had avery nice coat being sprayed on. I was planning on going to a spray systemsome day with the spar varnish, but may stick with this for a while. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: TSmithwick@aol.com Subject: Re: World's Best FinishDate: Tuesday, September 15, 1998 5:11 PM In a message dated 9/15/98 10:39:33 PM, you wrote: AlkydSpars.>> John - What about us brush varnishers? Can this product be brushed onandstayput, or will it run like most Polys? from richjez@enteract.com Tue Sep 15 19:56:20 1998 beforged)) 0000 Subject: Re: Alan Medved's e-mail Bambull@webtv.net (Al & Carole Medved) Hope this helpsRich Jezioro At 04:34 PM 9/15/98 -0400, you wrote:All,Can anyone forward me the e- mail address of Alan Medved? I promised tosendhim something at the Catskill Gathering and the e-mail address I haveisn'tdoing it.Thanks,Art *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ /||/______/_||_________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > from dhaftel@att.com Tue Sep 15 20:31:35 1998 sender att.com!dhaftel (att.com!dhaftel); Tue Sep 15 13:51 CDT 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) (5.5.1960.3) Subject: RE: World's Best Finish I used plain old "Behr" tung oil finish from The Home Depot. Works great! Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Richard Nantel [SMTP:richard.nantel@videotron.ca]Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 1998 2:17 PM Subject: RE: World's Best Finish Hi Darryl, Have you (or anyone else) tried the polymerized, high-lustre tung oil? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu SalarFly@aol.comSent: Tuesday, September 15, 1998 12:54 PM Subject: World's Best Finish Okay maybe it isn't, I just got finished reading an old Herter'scatalog and everything was "The Best" or "World's Greatest"so I got caught up in the hype. But - over the last year I had been forced (kicking and screaming)to use polyurethane varnish. People just didn't like the tung oilfinish I did. Most of them asked when I was going to finish therod when they saw them. The Spar varnish finish they looked at and said "That's nice." They positively gushed when they saw thedipped polyurethane finishes. All the last 5 rods I've made the guys who ordered them wanted a polyurethane finish. So, what were the knocks against polyurethane? If it gets chipped you can't repair it.Yes you can. Use a very fine artists brush, fill in the ding, afterit is thoroughly dry use fine sandpaper and polishing compound.With a little practice you can repair it so that the repair isinvisible. If you should ever want to it can't be stripped off.This can also be done. I tested a varnish stripper I saw ina local hardware store that said "also strips polyurethanevarnishes" and By Golly the varnish peeled right off. Polyurethane is too glossy, looks too much like plastic.There are semi gloss and low gloss formulations outnow. The low gloss looks a lot like Spar varnish whenit's dry, except it's clear rather than slightly amber colored.You can mix stain in with polyurethane if you really needto match a certain color. This could be a plus or minus depending on how youview it - Polyurethane makes a rod stiffer. It has beenthe most noticeable in the 2 weight rods I have beenmaking. Two rods (actually three, but one was sold asa blank) both two weights, one with a tung oil finish,the other with a polyurethane finish. The polyurethanefinished one is noticeably stiffer. Otherwise they areas identical as I can make them. Same culm, sametaper. Comments?P.S. Just talking about surface finishes. I haven't triedimpregnating a rod. Darryl from LECLAIR123@aol.com Tue Sep 15 20:57:35 1998 Subject: Re: World's Best Finish I've been spraying my rods with spar urethane for years. I know Of no problems with any of the rods I've built so far. Dave LeClairThe Fly and Rod room from briancreek@xoommail.com Tue Sep 15 21:32:54 1998 Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:32:53 -0700 Subject: RE: World's Best Finish I've used southerland wells high lustre, polymerized tung oil. Wiped on (about 8 coats) with a light touch of 1500 grit between coats, and a rub with rottenstone and soapy water to rub out some small imperfections. Then I varnished the wraps with Behlen Water White Varnish. Then waxed with Wayne's recipe rod wax. Looks good, is durable, and puts up with my less than persnickitty handling on the water.I,m going to eventually build a dip tube, but this works for now. Brian Richard Nantel wrote:Hi Darryl, Have you (or anyone else) tried the polymerized, high-lustre tung oil? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu SalarFly@aol.comSent: Tuesday, September 15, 1998 12:54 PM Subject: World's Best Finish Okay maybe it isn't, I just got finished reading an old Herter'scatalog and everything was "The Best" or "World's Greatest"so I got caught up in the hype. But - over the last year I had been forced (kicking and screaming)to use polyurethane varnish. People just didn't like the tung oilfinish I did. Most of them asked when I was going to finish therod when they saw them. The Spar varnish finish they looked at and said "That's nice." They positively gushed when they saw thedipped polyurethane finishes. All the last 5 rods I've made the guys who ordered them wanted a polyurethane finish. So, what were the knocks against polyurethane? If it gets chipped you can't repair it.Yes you can. Use a very fine artists brush, fill in the ding, afterit is thoroughly dry use fine sandpaper and polishing compound.With a little practice you can repair it so that the repair isinvisible. If you should ever want to it can't be stripped off.This can also be done. I tested a varnish stripper I saw ina local hardware store that said "also strips polyurethanevarnishes" and By Golly the varnish peeled right off. Polyurethane is too glossy, looks too much like plastic.There are semi gloss and low gloss formulations outnow. The low gloss looks a lot like Spar varnish whenit's dry, except it's clear rather than slightly amber colored.You can mix stain in with polyurethane if you really needto match a certain color. This could be a plus or minus depending on how youview it - Polyurethane makes a rod stiffer. It has beenthe most noticeable in the 2 weight rods I have beenmaking. Two rods (actually three, but one was sold asa blank) both two weights, one with a tung oil finish,the other with a polyurethane finish. The polyurethanefinished one is noticeably stiffer. Otherwise they areas identical as I can make them. Same culm, sametaper. Comments?P.S. Just talking about surface finishes. I haven't triedimpregnating a rod. Darryl ____________________________________________________Visit XOOM for FREE home pages, email, web software, clip art and MORE!http://www.xoom.com from jwilcox@netsync.net Tue Sep 15 22:12:07 1998 quartz.netsync.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA18979 for; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 23:11:48 -0400 Subject: silicone boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0028_01BDE0FE.209E4440" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01BDE0FE.209E4440 steve, the silicone that i use is made by Gunk. the can says (Solder =Seal...Gunk...heavy duty silicone spray lubricant) excuse the plug, but =i think i picked it up at my local "Value" hardware/home store. the =stuff works great. jim ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01BDE0FE.209E4440 use = jim ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01BDE0FE.209E4440-- from jczimny@dol.net Tue Sep 15 22:28:45 1998 Subject: Re: World's Best Finish Try it. I think it will brush well.John TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 9/15/98 10:39:33 PM, you wrote: AlkydSpars.>> John - What about us brush varnishers? Can this product be brushed onand stayput, or will it run like most Polys? from maxs@geocities.co.jp Wed Sep 16 00:55:05 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA11193 for; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 14:54:58 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: World's Best Finish Hello Hayashida san, Because of English-Japanese communication, forgive me if some wordsmight be understood differently on what they are like on "Tung Oil", "Spar Varnish" etc. Is Spar varnish like the gloss of some metal surface, or the surface ofwooden pole of vessels? (E-J dictionary has two meanings on Spar.)Is Tung oil finish like the surface of rattan chair or rattan crafts?(E-J dictionary says that tung oil is the natual oil of china.) I think the Polyurethane is the easiest and beautiful varnish forpopular hand crafted bamboo rods.It is popular because of its easiness of keeping a fair quality offinish The fishers who purchase a rod have different opinions than those whomake the rods. Color, gloss, stiffness, balance, length, etc.. So it is the realcraftmanwho responses to the requirements of clients by studying every usefulkindof technique and materials day by day. If you are interested in a kind of "World's Best Finish", specialties(not a popular one), or in a kind of varnish which has morerationals, I would like to introduce you Japanese (or Chinese) naturallacquer, "Urushi" in Japanese. Lacquer is also used for the mostexpensive Japanese traditional fishing rods. The most of the effects of finishing with lacquer are same toPolyurethane. It will change the balance of the weight of the rod and affects to the stiffness by the number of applications. Since lacquer is "live" material, it absorbs moisture and gets harderwith moisture, and "live" for ever. Its hardness, clearness or transparency will increase along with thenumber of years it takes if appropriate moisture is supplied. (no goodin Arizona desert) Usually it is said that lacquer finish is difficult. It is becauselacquer has been mainly applied on the surface of wood wares.As wood will absorb water and its surface is not flat enough, lacquercraft men create the flat surface by repeating the processes, the application of lacquer, drying it and polishing the surface bysandpaper or compound, many times, fifteen or twenty times. On the other hand, bamboo surface is rather flat enough when getting ridof the glue, nor absorbing water element of varnish like wood.Up to four times application of lacquer would be enough to coat thesurface. (But, the more applied, the more beautifully shine.) So it means that we can keep the thickness of varnish as thin aspossible, in comparison to the case of wood ware. It will shine differently from chemical materials and will touchdifferently according to the moisture in the air (to seasons). Now lacquer material is sold in a compact tube here. If you are interested in trying this on your rod, I am glad to have youone and translate how to apply it in English. "How to" is almost same to the one of Tung Oil finish. Only difference is that you must use rubber gloves to keep yourself untouched with lacquer. My comments; Rubbing finishing method has rationals:1. No need of making tools, just needs glove, dustless cloth, thinner,rag, brush. That's it. No high ceiling, no hole on the floor.2. Can keep the flat surface easily. Trust the surface of split cane. Even dipping will create a bump when lift speed is changed accidentallyin the course. Brush is easy to create a bump on the surface.3. The result of finish is thin since most material is wiped out. Lesseffect of weight to the action. 4. Wrapping is after varnishing. Re-work on changing snake guides andwrap would not affects the original varnish on the bamboo. (though varnish on the wrap afterward needs someprecise care. The varnish should not overflow on to the bamboo section)5. When chipped, we can recreate the surface with fine sandpaper andre-apply new lacqer as the final coat and wrap it again.6. No need of a tank of polyurethane fluid. Just expend several cubiccm ofmaterial is enough to finish a rod. Rational of non-gloss finish:A shining rod surface often shines while fishing reflecting sun beam.When the fishes where you fish is sensitive, and when your rod shines,it may happen to make fishes nervous sometimes. We have to approach to such fishing point by crawling to hideourselves. Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jp SalarFly@aol.com wrote: Okay maybe it isn't, I just got finished reading an old Herter'scatalog and everything was "The Best" or "World's Greatest"so I got caught up in the hype. But - over the last year I had been forced (kicking and screaming)to use polyurethane varnish. People just didn't like the tung oilfinish I did. Most of them asked when I was going to finish therod when they saw them. The Spar varnish finish they looked atand said "That's nice." They positively gushed when they saw thedipped polyurethane finishes. All the last 5 rods I've made the guyswho ordered them wanted a polyurethane finish. So, what were the knocks against polyurethane? If it gets chipped you can't repair it.Yes you can. Use a very fine artists brush, fill in the ding, afterit is thoroughly dry use fine sandpaper and polishing compound.With a little practice you can repair it so that the repair isinvisible. If you should ever want to it can't be stripped off.This can also be done. I tested a varnish stripper I saw ina local hardware store that said "also strips polyurethanevarnishes" and By Golly the varnish peeled right off. Polyurethane is too glossy, looks too much like plastic.There are semi gloss and low gloss formulations outnow. The low gloss looks a lot like Spar varnish whenit's dry, except it's clear rather than slightly amber colored.You can mix stain in with polyurethane if you really needto match a certain color. This could be a plus or minus depending on how youview it - Polyurethane makes a rod stiffer. It has beenthe most noticeable in the 2 weight rods I have beenmaking. Two rods (actually three, but one was sold asa blank) both two weights, one with a tung oil finish,the other with a polyurethane finish. The polyurethanefinished one is noticeably stiffer. Otherwise they areas identical as I can make them. Same culm, sametaper. Comments?P.S. Just talking about surface finishes. I haven't triedimpregnating a rod. Darryl -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jp from maxs@geocities.co.jp Wed Sep 16 00:55:10 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA11335 for; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 14:55:06 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Finding Cane 5588346055431966A853747D" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 5588346055431966A853747D Joe, According to the price information which I received from Demarest, theyhave option to purchase3 pieces of cane as minimum with price of $26 to $29 a piece accordingto the part of United States.Please look into the attahced. Joseph S.Kallo wrote: Hi all,My name is Joe Kallo and I am seriously considering making myfirst rod.Ihave located most of the things I will (apparently) need. My first of whatwill probably be many questions for the list: if I wanted to purchacecanein a smaller ammount than the minimum order allowed by Demarest,whatoptions would I have? For a variety of reasons (not the least of which ismy miniscule graduate student salary) I'd like to purchace enough canefora couple of rods to start off with. Any help on this would be appreciated.On another note, what negative factors should I expect from a tungoilfinish (was the "hot-car" problem mentioned a few posts back directedattung finishes?)? I have used tung oil on a few pieces of furniture andreally like the finish. I'll be making rods for my own use so the "when areyou gonna put on the shellac?" question isn't a problem for me. Thank you for your response, Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jp--- -----------5588346055431966A853747D CHARLES H. DEMAREST, INC.P. O. Box 238Bloomingdale, NJ 07403 Telephone: 973 492-1414 Facsimile: 973 838-6538e-mail: Demaralon@aol.com TONKIN CANE Pieces Minimum EachPer Bale 1 - 12 Bales Order Piece 12' X 1-3/4 - 2" 20 $305.00/Bale 3 pcs. 26.00/pc 12' x 2 - 2-1/2" 20 $384.00/Bale 3 pcs. 29.00/pc F. O. B. LAKEWOOD, NEW JERSEY The 12 foot length is available only in bale lots and can be shipped onlybycommon carrier. We prepay the freight charges and thereby receive a 53%or 55%discount, depending on your locaion, which we pass onto you. Pleaseprovide acommercial address for delivery in order to avoid extra delivery charges. Minimum orders cane be shipped via UPS if cut in half (each piece is EAST OF MISSISSIPPI: Minimum order $ 25.00Each additional piece 8.30 WEST OF MISSISSIPPI: Minimum order 36.00Each additional piece 12.00 ALASKA, HAWAII, CANADA: Minimum order 22.00 plus UPS chargesEach additional piece 7.50 plus UPS charges October 15, 1997 --------------5588346055431966A853747D-- from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Sep 16 01:57:35 1998 Subject: Re: World's Best Finish In a message dated 9/15/98 10:58:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time,maxs@geocities.co.jp writes: Now lacquer material is sold in a compact tube here. If you are interested in trying this on your rod, I am glad to have youone and translate how to apply it in English. "How to" is almost same to the one of Tung Oil finish. Only difference is that you must use rubber gloves to keep yourself untouched with lacquer. I would never presume that I knew the best way of doing anything.The title "Worlds Best Finish" was a parody of a catalog we have here in the states that lists all of it's products as "The Best" or "World's Greatest". I was making a joke. Yes, I would be very interested in trying out Urushi on a bamboorod, and would be very grateful if you could send me some to try.I'll sent you a direct email to work out the details. The term Spar Varnish is derived from the wooden poles on oldsailing vessels. This was the type of varnish used on them. Darryl Hayashida from saltwein@swbell.net Wed Sep 16 06:34:01 1998 gw3adm.rcsntx.swbell.net GAA21605 Subject: Re: World's Best Finish/Spraying Spar LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: I've been spraying my rods with spar urethane for years. I know Of no problems with any of the rods I've built so far. Dave LeClairThe Fly and Rod room Dave, What type of spray booth and spray gear do you use? Regards, Steve from dhaftel@att.com Wed Sep 16 07:53:29 1998 sender att.com!dhaftel (att.com!dhaftel); Wed Sep 16 07:53 CDT 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) (5.5.1960.3) Subject: RE: World's Best Finish Sorry about the repeat message folks. The work e-mail wasn't verycooperative yesterday. Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Haftel, Dennis Jay [SMTP:dhaftel@att.com]Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 1998 2:51 PM Subject: RE: World's Best Finish I used plain old "Behr" tung oil finish from The Home Depot. Works great! Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Richard Nantel [SMTP:richard.nantel@videotron.ca]Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 1998 2:17 PM Subject: RE: World's Best Finish Hi Darryl, Have you (or anyone else) tried the polymerized, high-lustre tung oil? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu SalarFly@aol.comSent: Tuesday, September 15, 1998 12:54 PM Subject: World's Best Finish Okay maybe it isn't, I just got finished reading an old Herter'scatalog and everything was "The Best" or "World's Greatest"so I got caught up in the hype. But - over the last year I had been forced (kicking and screaming)to use polyurethane varnish. People just didn't like the tung oilfinish I did. Most of them asked when I was going to finish therod when they saw them. The Spar varnish finish they looked at and said "That's nice." They positively gushed when they saw thedipped polyurethane finishes. All the last 5 rods I've made the guys who ordered them wanted a polyurethane finish. So, what were the knocks against polyurethane? If it gets chipped you can't repair it.Yes you can. Use a very fine artists brush, fill in the ding, afterit is thoroughly dry use fine sandpaper and polishing compound.With a little practice you can repair it so that the repair isinvisible. If you should ever want to it can't be stripped off.This can also be done. I tested a varnish stripper I saw ina local hardware store that said "also strips polyurethanevarnishes" and By Golly the varnish peeled right off. Polyurethane is too glossy, looks too much like plastic.There are semi gloss and low gloss formulations outnow. The low gloss looks a lot like Spar varnish whenit's dry, except it's clear rather than slightly amber colored.You can mix stain in with polyurethane if you really needto match a certain color. This could be a plus or minus depending on how youview it - Polyurethane makes a rod stiffer. It has beenthe most noticeable in the 2 weight rods I have beenmaking. Two rods (actually three, but one was sold asa blank) both two weights, one with a tung oil finish,the other with a polyurethane finish. The polyurethanefinished one is noticeably stiffer. Otherwise they areas identical as I can make them. Same culm, sametaper. Comments?P.S. Just talking about surface finishes. I haven't triedimpregnating a rod. Darryl from sniderja@email.uc.edu Wed Sep 16 07:59:36 1998 Subject: Re: World's Best Finish/Spraying Spar Yes, Dave, what method of spraying do you use? Would be most helpfulinformation!!Jerry Snider.At 06:36 AM 9/16/98 -0700, you wrote:LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: I've been spraying my rods with spar urethane for years. I know Of no problems with any of the rods I've built so far. Dave LeClairThe Fly and Rod room Dave, What type of spray booth and spray gear do you use? Regards, Steve from briansr@point-net.com Wed Sep 16 08:39:03 1998 0000 Subject: RE: planing forms a question Many thanks to one and all for the response to this question. It all makessense now why the groove in trhe form should be taperedCheers Brian from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Wed Sep 16 08:59:00 1998 (may beforged)) Subject: Re: Finding Bamboo Hello Joe,Another way to procure the bamboo that you would like in the amountsthat you desire might be to attend the Southern Rodmakers Convention.Someone there might have bamboo that they would be willing to sell you This event will be held at Quarry Park (Dam Site) on the Norfork Riverin the Mountain Home, AR area, Oct 1-4, 1998. Harry Boyd posted aschedule of events yesterday. This is not very far from Carbondale, IL. The demonstrations to be provided by Wayne Cattanach will be veryinformative for someone starting this craft. All of the other sessionsalso look extremely good. I wish that I could attend. However, twoweeks prior to the announcement of this event, I committed myself tofacilities management for a church group retreat that same weekend. Theretreat runs in the same time frame, thus I will not be able to attend.I'm looking forward to 1999 event. Dick Fuhrman from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Sep 16 10:26:33 1998 0500 Subject: Re: Finding Bamboo Dick,Thanks for the plug; and the good work for the Church group. I'll keepyou informed about plans for future events. Joe,If you manage to join us I feel fairly sure you can go home with somecane suitable for practice/learning, and some for your first rod. Harry dickfuhrman@rheemote.com wrote: Hello Joe,Another way to procure the bamboo that you would like in the amountsthat you desire might be to attend the Southern Rodmakers Convention.Someone there might have bamboo that they would be willing to sell you This event will be held at Quarry Park (Dam Site) on the Norfork Riverin the Mountain Home, AR area, Oct 1-4, 1998. Harry Boyd posted aschedule of events yesterday. This is not very far from Carbondale, IL. The demonstrations to be provided by Wayne Cattanach will be veryinformative for someone starting this craft. All of the other sessionsalso look extremely good. I wish that I could attend. However, twoweeks prior to the announcement of this event, I committed myself tofacilities management for a church group retreat that same weekend. Theretreat runs in the same time frame, thus I will not be able to attend.I'm looking forward to 1999 event. Dick Fuhrman from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Sep 16 10:56:09 1998 0500 Subject: Southern Rodmakers Gathering Folks, I revised slightly the schedule of activities for October1-3. I've had some smart remarks about my Louisiana coffee.(Tar, etc.) Keep it up! The more complaints I hear, thestronger the coffee gets! We haven't even talked aboutchicory yet. This is really going to be fun! burgers, or, provide roast duck, or pheasant under glass forthe group I think he would have no trouble gettingre-imbursed for his expenses.Harry Southern Rodmakers GatheringThursday, October 1, 1998 8:30 LOUISIANA! Coffee and Registration 9:00 One solution to acquiring your own tools -Tony Spezio 10:00 Break for "show and tell" 10:30 Tom Smithwick-George Barnes SharpeningWheel -- Harry Boyd 11:00 Making your own Scraper Plane - Kurt Loup 12:00 Lunch (on your own) 2:00 "Special Tools for the Rod Maker + Bamboo Casting Rods" - Richard Tyree 3:00 The Morgan Hand Mill (if available) - BillLamberson 4:00 Making your own ferrules - Leo Eck 5:00 Door Prize Drawing(s) - Break 6:00 Arundaria amabilis - adventures in TonkinCane -Harold Demarest Friday, October 2 8:30 - 1:30 Beginning Builders Workshop - WayneCattanach Saturday, October 3 8:30 - 1:30(?) Beginning Builders Workshop, continued.WayneCattanach from ljrp@penn.com Wed Sep 16 11:23:14 1998 Subject: Re: Braced Tip Tops I saw beautifully made new bamboo rods in a fly shop with "braced" tiptops rather than conventional Perfection tips. didn't seem to me to':fit" you viewsHarry Boyd wrote: Folks, I revised slightly the schedule of activities for October1-3. I've had some smart remarks about my Louisiana coffee.(Tar, etc.) Keep it up! The more complaints I hear, thestronger the coffee gets! We haven't even talked aboutchicory yet. This is really going to be fun! burgers, or, provide roast duck, or pheasant under glass forthe group I think he would have no trouble gettingre-imbursed for his expenses.Harry Southern Rodmakers GatheringThursday, October 1, 1998 8:30 LOUISIANA! Coffee and Registration 9:00 One solution to acquiring your own tools -Tony Spezio 10:00 Break for "show and tell" 10:30 Tom Smithwick-George Barnes SharpeningWheel-- Harry Boyd 11:00 Making your own Scraper Plane - Kurt Loup 12:00 Lunch (on your own) 2:00 "Special Tools for the Rod Maker+ Bamboo Casting Rods" - Richard Tyree 3:00 The Morgan Hand Mill (if available) - BillLamberson 4:00 Making your own ferrules - Leo Eck 5:00 Door Prize Drawing(s) - Break 6:00 Arundaria amabilis - adventures in TonkinCane -Harold Demarest Friday, October 2 8:30 - 1:30 Beginning Builders Workshop - WayneCattanach Saturday, October 3 8:30 - 1:30(?) Beginning Builders Workshop, continued.WayneCattanach from Anachemrpo@aol.com Wed Sep 16 11:50:47 1998