Subject: Dial indicator for dummies Talk about learning the basics... I have acquired a Mitutoyu 2416F dial indicator and a of 60* tip forsettingmy planing forms. I was surprised at the lack if information that came with the indicator. How does one calibrate the dial to "zero"? I suppose I could monkey aroundwith the pins and parts until I either brake it or find my answer, but thatdoesn't seem like the right thing to do with a precision instrument. I already e-mailed the company's website with my "dial indicator fordummies"question but have received no answer. Thanks in advance, Russ Lavigne from dr_matro@cyberramp.net Wed Sep 16 11:58:25 1998 ESMTP idLAA18048 Ste@cyberramp.net, 106A@cyberramp.net, Dallas@cyberramp.net,TX@cyberramp.net, 75202@cyberramp.net Subject: Re: Southern Rodmakers Gathering Harry Point me at a grill and give me a head-count.Hamburgers and hotdogs OK? Ken Cole from FlyTyr@southshore.com Wed Sep 16 12:16:10 1998 natco.southshore.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA16813 for; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:16:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Dial indicator for dummies Rotate the outer ring This should bring the "O" in line with the pointer.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Anachemrpo@aol.com wrote: Talk about learning the basics... I have acquired a Mitutoyu 2416F dial indicator and a of 60* tip forsettingmy planing forms. I was surprised at the lack if information that came with the indicator. How does one calibrate the dial to "zero"? I suppose I could monkeyaroundwith the pins and parts until I either brake it or find my answer, but thatdoesn't seem like the right thing to do with a precision instrument. I already e-mailed the company's website with my "dial indicator fordummies"question but have received no answer. Thanks in advance, Russ Lavigne from jkallo@midwest.net Wed Sep 16 12:20:18 1998 Subject: Re: Southern Rodmakers Gathering Harry,The convention sounds great; I had no idea it was so close toCarbondale.Is there camping close-by? What are the plans for the afternoons of Fridayand Saturday? What is the cost for registration? I would probably only beable to make the Friday and Saturday sessions (I hope I can arrange eventhat). Hope I can see you all there. Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Wed Sep 16 12:52:01 1998 (may beforged)) Subject: Dial indicator for dummies Russ,I have not looked up the particular indicator that you purchased, but,these gauges usually have a set screw that allows the outer ring to berotated. With the gauge installed in its base, the tip installed, setthe assembly on a flat surface with the tip against the flat surface.Now loosen the set screw and rotate the ring until the "0" aligns withthe pointer hand. Now when the instrument is set with the tip in thegroove, it will indicate the depth of the groove. Some instrumentsrequire that you have a pad of paper at hand so that you can write downthe revolution counter setting when on the flat surface and subtract thereading when in the groove to find the actual depth. Some more expensive digital instruments allow you to push a button to"Zero" the instrument when on the flat surface. They also allow you toread in either direction of the plunger motion. Hope this helps Dick Fuhrman from dhaftel@att.com Wed Sep 16 12:58:57 1998 sender att.com!dhaftel (att.com!dhaftel); Wed Sep 16 13:27 EDT 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) (5.5.1960.3) Subject: RE: Dial indicator for dummies Russ, Usually, all you have to do is gently place the indicator on a hard flatsurface, loosen the locking screw and turn the bezel until the dial readszero. That's how mine works. Good luck... Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Anachemrpo@aol.com [SMTP:Anachemrpo@aol.com]Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 1998 12:50 PM Subject: Dial indicator for dummies Talk about learning the basics... I have acquired a Mitutoyu 2416F dial indicator and a of 60* tip forsettingmy planing forms. I was surprised at the lack if information that came with the indicator. How does one calibrate the dial to "zero"? I suppose I could monkeyaroundwith the pins and parts until I either brake it or find my answer, butthatdoesn't seem like the right thing to do with a precision instrument. I already e-mailed the company's website with my "dial indicator fordummies"question but have received no answer. Thanks in advance, Russ Lavigne from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Sep 16 13:00:33 1998 Subject: Re: Dial indicator for dummies In a message dated 9/16/98 10:17:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time,FlyTyr@southshore.com writes: Rotate the outer ring This should bring the "O" in line with the pointer. There is another problem with most dial indicators. Placed on a flatsurface with the point resting on the flat surface, that is usually not zero for measuring the depth of your planing form. There is a thread about calibrating your depth gauge in the archives. It's a little complicated, but it's essentially a small hole drilled in a metal block anda few trig calculations. Don't assume that zero of your depth gauge is setting it on a flat surface. Darryl from Anachemrpo@aol.com Wed Sep 16 14:04:02 1998 Subject: Thanks for info, Re:Dial dummies Rodmaker Listers, Thank you for the answers to my dial indicator question. I will also seekoutthe info in the archives regarding calibration. The list is indeed a remarkable resource. Russ Lavigne from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Sep 16 14:14:53 1998 0500 Subject: Re: World's Best Finish Darryl,Tell me a little more about your polishing experiments. Iaccidentally got some hot-melt type ferrule cement on one of my rods,right over the signature. Though I might get away with it, I'm hesitantto heat it enough to liquify the glue again and am thinking of polishingthe glue out. (Yeah, I know, I should have been more careful... noscolding necessary)Thanks in advance,Harry BoydSalarFly@aol.com wrote: If it gets chipped you can't repair it.Yes you can. Use a very fine artists brush, fill in the ding, afterit is thoroughly dry use fine sandpaper and polishing compound.With a little practice you can repair it so that the repair isinvisible. from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Sep 16 14:37:23 1998 Subject: Re: World's Best Finish In a message dated 9/16/98 12:19:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time,fbcwin@fsbnet.com writes: Darryl,Tell me a little more about your polishing experiments. Iaccidentally got some hot-melt type ferrule cement on one of my rods,right over the signature. Though I might get away with it, I'm hesitantto heat it enough to liquify the glue again and am thinking of polishingthe glue out. (Yeah, I know, I should have been more careful... noscolding necessary)Thanks in advance,Harry BoydSalarFly@aol.com wrote: If it gets chipped you can't repair it.Yes you can. Use a very fine artists brush, fill in the ding, afterit is thoroughly dry use fine sandpaper and polishing compound.With a little practice you can repair it so that the repair isinvisible. The above about says it all...With hot melt glue I would try carefully scraping off as much as I could,and then polishing off the rest. Try using Turtle Wax rubbing compoundto remove the glue residue, careful! it's abrasive, then Turtle Waxpolishing compound to get rid of the haze that the rubbing compound willleave behind. Good Luck! Darryl from jcole10@juno.com Wed Sep 16 16:10:00 1998 17:07:52 EDT Subject: Re: Dial indicator for dummies The thread was by Chris Bogart, May 15 "98 John Cole On Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:59:46 EDT SalarFly@aol.com writes:In a message dated 9/16/98 10:17:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time,FlyTyr@southshore.com writes: Rotate the outer ring This should bring the "O" in line with the pointer. There is another problem with most dial indicators. Placed on a flatsurface with the point resting on the flat surface, that is usually not zero for measuring the depth of your planing form. There is a thread about calibrating your depth gauge in the archives. It's a little complicated, but it's essentially a small hole drilled in a metal block anda few trig calculations. Don't assume that zero of your depth gauge is setting it on a flat surface. Darryl from mevans@acxiom.com Wed Sep 16 16:43:35 1998 Exchange ServerInternet Mail Connector Version 4.0.996.62) Sep 199816:46:37 -0500 Subject: RE: SRG - Camping 4.0.996.62 Joseph,Quarry Park, where the gathering is to be held, is a campground at Norfolk Dam. You can wade directly into the Norfolk from Quarry - when the gods aren't 'letting out water'. (They generate long and hard after drinking Louisiana "coffee" - like most people.) If Quarry is full, you can camp on the White River at Bull Shoals state park - excellent camping and great fishing. It's +/- 30 minutes easy drive from Quarry. There are also quite a few private camp grounds in the area. The only other one I've used is the White Buffalo. A nice place, but not an easy drive to Quarry. For a list of resorts and campgrounds in the area check: http://www.crl.com/~ozark/mtnhome/rvresort.html . You can find decent rooms in the low $30s/night - camping is about $15/day (I think). Plans for Friday and Saturday afternoons? You should be on the river - you'd have to leave the states to find it much better. If they're generating, which is likely, you can fish from boats with large flies and deep long drifts. See the fishing reports at the Angler Web site below. You can have an excellent day on high water from a boat. (I'd be happy to split the cost of a boat with someone if the need arises.) If you want to hire a guide, call Cane Island Fly Shop (870) 431- 4555. There are a few up there who stand apart and they can put you in touch with them. Quarry is within 20 minutes drive of several other excellent access points to the river. Check out: http://www.ozarkangler.com . They have clickable maps showing access points and recommended on stream fishing areas for the Norfolk and White. (Select the river name under contents on their home page, then click on the pink areas of the river maps.) See you there ... Mark Evans ---------- Subject: Re: Southern Rodmakers Gathering Harry,The convention sounds great; I had no idea it was so close to Carbondale.Is there camping close-by? What are the plans for the afternoons of Fridayand Saturday? What is the cost for registration? I would probably only beable to make the Friday and Saturday sessions (I hope I can arrange eventhat). Hope I can see you all there. Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed Sep 16 18:27:10 1998 Subject: Re: Southern Rodmakers Gathering Ken -Perhaps you might 'scrape up' one of those centerlined specimens from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Sep 16 18:29:07 1998 0500 Subject: Re: SRG - Camping Joseph,I must have missed this post, but Mark is correct about almosteverything. My only squabbles would be these three:1) terming this gathering a "convention." It will not be nearly thatformal or organized. But it should be loads of fun.2) Choice of guides. I've never been out with Cane Island's guides,and I'm sure they are excellent. In fact, one of the ladies who guides guides. Cane Island Fly Shop is a really nice place. I just have a fewfriends in the area who work with other outfits, one of whom has beenREALLY nice to me and some of the others who attend this event with me.In fact, I'm going to write an article about him for "The Bamboo Fly Rod"magazine.3) Mark and I differ in our tastes in coffee. We'll try to resolvethat at the gathering. I doubt either one of us will change our minds.I hope you have gathered that this is going to be fun. If I canbe of further assisstance, let me know.Hope to see you there,Harry Boydmevans - Mark Evans wrote: Joseph,Quarry Park, where the gathering is to be held, is a campground atNorfolk Dam. You can wade directly into the Norfolk from Quarry -when the gods aren't 'letting out water'. (They generate long andhard after drinking Louisiana "coffee" - like most people.) If Quarry is full, you can camp on the White River at Bull Shoalsstate park - excellent camping and great fishing. It's +/- 30 minuteseasy drive from Quarry. There are also quite a few private campgrounds in the area. The only other one I've used is the WhiteBuffalo. A nice place, but not an easy drive to Quarry. For a listof resorts and campgrounds in the area check:http://www.crl.com/~ozark/mtnhome/rvresort.html . You can finddecentrooms in the low $30s/night - camping is about $15/day (I think). Plans for Friday and Saturday afternoons? You should be on the river -you'd have to leave the states to find it much better. If they'regenerating, which is likely, you can fish from boats with large fliesand deep long drifts. See the fishing reports at the Angler Web sitebelow. You can have an excellent day on high water from a boat. (I'dbe happy to split the cost of a boat with someone if the need arises.)If you want to hire a guide, call Cane Island Fly Shop (870)431- 4555. There are a few up there who stand apart and they can putyou in touch with them. Quarry is within 20 minutes drive of several other excellent accesspoints to the river. Check out: http://www.ozarkangler.com . Theyhave clickable maps showing access points and recommended on streamfishing areas for the Norfolk and White. (Select the river name undercontents on their home page, then click on the pink areas of the rivermaps.) See you there ... Mark Evans ----------From: Joseph S.Kallo [SMTP:jkallo@midwest.net]Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 1998 12:18 PM Subject: Re: Southern Rodmakers Gathering Harry,The convention sounds great; I had no idea it was so close toCarbondale.Is there camping close-by? What are the plans for the afternoons ofFridayand Saturday? What is the cost for registration? I would probably onlybeable to make the Friday and Saturday sessions (I hope I can arrangeeventhat). Hope I can see you all there. Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Sep 16 18:38:33 1998 Subject: Re: World's Best Finish/Spraying Spar Steve,I use an air brush to spray the rods. Like the ones they use to spray T-shirts at fairs. I don't have a spray booth, Just a small room that I use for spraying. I spray the first Coat thinned approx. 60%. Let dry for 24 hrs..Lightly sand with 1200 grit wet/dry paper. Spray the second coat the same way. Let dry for 24 hrs. Sand with 1200 grit. Then the final coat is thinned approx. 40% and left to dry for a week or so. After the blanks are sprayed and dry, then I wrap the guides on and coat them with six coats of Spar Varnish. Dave L. from dr_matro@cyberramp.net Wed Sep 16 18:49:40 1998 ESMTP idSAA25154 Ste@cyberramp.net, 106A@cyberramp.net, Dallas@cyberramp.net,TX@cyberramp.net, 75202@cyberramp.net Subject: Re: Southern Rodmakers Gathering WayneYou mean like a little coon casserole with possum on the half shell.Slow simmered on the manifold. Hadn't thought of that, but it would beinteresting.See you there, and bring the appropriate wine, would you?Ken from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Sep 16 19:13:59 1998 Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:13:47 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Southern Rodmakers Gathering On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Ken Cole wrote: WayneYou mean like a little coon casserole with possum on the half shell.Slow simmered on the manifold. Hadn't thought of that, but it would beinteresting.See you there, and bring the appropriate wine, would you?Ken I wonder where you could buy a bottle or two of chateu Gum Boot? /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from channer@hubwest.com Wed Sep 16 19:24:37 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A72B53D010E; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 18:26:19 MDT Subject: Re: World's Best Finish At 02:11 PM 9/16/98 -0500, you wrote:Darryl,Tell me a little more about your polishing experiments. Iaccidentally got some hot-melt type ferrule cement on one of my rods,right over the signature. Though I might get away with it, I'm hesitantto heat it enough to liquify the glue again and am thinking of polishingthe glue out. (Yeah, I know, I should have been more careful... noscolding necessary)Thanks in advance,Harry BoydSalarFly@aol.com wrote: If it gets chipped you can't repair it.Yes you can. Use a very fine artists brush, fill in the ding, afterit is thoroughly dry use fine sandpaper and polishing compound.With a little practice you can repair it so that the repair isinvisible. Harry;Go to an auto body paint supplier, they will have 3-M Perfect It 11 rubbingcompound and Finesse It 11 machine polish, about $10-$15 a pint(lifetimesupply). Then you can sand out any flaws in your varnish with 1200-1500grit sandpaper then use the rubbing compound followed by the polish. Ittakes a little elbow grease, but when you are done you won't be able totell the touch-up from the rest of the finish. If you get too heavy withthe sandpaper and go thru the finish to the cane, take a dubbing needle andput a drop of varnish in the void. Build the finish back up this way untilit is higher than the surrounding surface. Wait at least three days for itto harden, then sand flat and polish out. I don't know if this works onpolyurethane, I use Man-O-War spar varnish and it works great. Good Luck John Channer from saweiss@flash.net Wed Sep 16 20:01:48 1998 Subject: Re: Finding Cane -----Original Message----- Subject: Finding Cane Hi all,My name is Joe Kallo and I am seriously considering making my first rod.Ihave located most of the things I will (apparently) need. My first of whatwill probably be many questions for the list: if I wanted to purchace canein a smaller ammount than the minimum order allowed by Demarest, whatoptions would I have? For a variety of reasons (not the least of which ismy miniscule graduate student salary) I'd like to purchace enough canefora couple of rods to start off with. Any help on this would be appreciated.On another note, what negative factors should I expect from a tung oilfinish (was the "hot-car" problem mentioned a few posts back directed attung finishes?)? I have used tung oil on a few pieces of furniture andreally like the finish. I'll be making rods for my own use so the "when areyou gonna put on the shellac?" question isn't a problem for me. Thank you for your response, Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale Joe,Try Andy Royer's cane. He ships a smaller bundle for less $ and his canehasbeen very good.Check the rodmakers site for materials.Steve Weiss from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed Sep 16 20:12:31 1998 Subject: Re: Southern Rodmakers Gathering Ken -I'm not up on my wines - do you think a vintage Strawberry Hill over icewould do???? from sjstill@iquest.net Wed Sep 16 20:19:00 1998 0000 (209.43.49.185) Subject: Re: Finding Cane At 19:04 9/16/98 -0600, you wrote:Try Andy Royer's cane. He ships a smaller bundle for less $ and his canehasbeen very good.Check the rodmakers site for materials. Unless Andy changed his tune, he told me he was avoiding smallshipments,but he DID say that he was trying to make arrangements with Angler'sWorkshop to sell by the stick. Don't know if that has panned out or not. I'm ordering the minimum from Demerast *soon* and am in Indianapolis. Ifanyone wants in and is close, let me know off list. Heck, I might even selljust one of the pieces I get, since it will be all ready for shipment. SteveSteve and Julie StillabowerIndianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net from DEMARALON@aol.com Wed Sep 16 20:29:59 1998 Subject: Re: Finding Cane boundary="part0_905995750_boundary" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_905995750_boundary Dear Joe, Reading your letter leads me to believe that youhave our price list, but just in case you don't here it is. Yes, our minimumis 3 pieces , plus delivery where-ever you may be - and depending uponwhichsize 1-3/4-2" East of Mississippi $103.00 West thereof $114.00; 2-2-1/2"East of Mississippi $112.00, West thereof $123.00. Any questins happy tooblige. Personal check are very acceptable. Look forward to being ofserviceto you. Cordially, Charles H. Demarest, Inc.,Harold Demarest,President --part0_905995750_boundary name="PRICEL~1.TXT" CHARLES H. DEMAREST, INC.P. O. Box 238Bloomingdale, NJ 07403 Telephone: 973 492-1414 Facsimile: 973 838-6538e-mail: Demaralon@aol.com TONKIN CANE Pieces Minimum EachPer Bale 1 - 12 Bales Order Piece 12=92 X 1-3/4 - 2=94 20 $305.00/Bale 3 pcs. 26.00/p=c 12=92 x 2 - 2-1/2=94 20 $384.00/Bale 3 pcs. 29.00/p=c F. O. B. LAKEWOOD, NEW JERSEY The 12 foot length is available only in bale lots and can be shipped o=nly by common carrier. We prepay the freight charges and therebyreceive=a 53% or 55% discount, depending on your locaion, which we pass ontoyou=. Please provide a commercial address for delivery in order to avoid ext=ra delivery charges. Minimum orders cane be shipped via UPS if cut in half (each piece is i=dentified). For cutting, packing and shipping via UPS add: EAST OF MISSISSIPPI: Minimum order $ 25.00Each additional piece 8.30 WEST OF MISSISSIPPI: Minimum order 36.00Each additional piece 12.00 ALASKA, HAWAII, CANADA: Minimum order 22.00 plus UPS charge=sEach additional piece 7.50 plus UPS charge=s October 15, 199=7 --part0_905995750_boundary-- from saltwein@swbell.net Wed Sep 16 20:44:48 1998 gw3adm.rcsntx.swbell.net UAA27752 Subject: Re: World's Best Finish/Spraying Spar .......are sprayed and dry, then I wrap the guides on and coat them with six coats of Spar Varnish. Dave L. Thanks Dave, appreciate the info. Regards, Steve from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Sep 16 20:51:23 1998 Subject: Re: Re:Graphite Fix Try cutting back the butt end of the tip-that may tighten the taper enoughtogive you a tight fit.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Sep 16 20:51:23 1998 Subject: Re: World's Best Finish Darryl,Have you tried polyurethane spar varnish. I've been having good luckwithit in my drip-dip tube.Reards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Sep 16 20:51:25 1998 Subject: Re: Re: World's Best Finish Greg,I do it all the time.Hank. from ghinde@inconnect.com Wed Sep 16 21:53:05 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Re:Graphite Fix A little bit of cutting here goes a long way, but it does work.George ----------From: FISHWOOL@aol.com Subject: Re:Graphite FixDate: Wednesday, September 16, 1998 7:50 PM Try cutting back the butt end of the tip-that may tighten the taperenough togive you a tight fit.Hank. from dhaftel@att.com Thu Sep 17 06:20:05 1998 sender att.com!dhaftel (att.com!dhaftel); Thu Sep 17 07:11 EDT 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) (5.5.1960.3) Subject: RE: World's Best Finish I dunno, Darryl... I *like* tung oil. I was thinking of finishing my first rod in it. I refinished an old SouthBend that way, blank done in oil, wraps in spar varnish and it looks great. Did your customers know about your finishes in advance??? Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: SalarFly@aol.com [SMTP:SalarFly@aol.com]Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 1998 12:54 PM Subject: World's Best Finish Okay maybe it isn't, I just got finished reading an old Herter'scatalog and everything was "The Best" or "World's Greatest"so I got caught up in the hype. But - over the last year I had been forced (kicking and screaming)to use polyurethane varnish. People just didn't like the tung oilfinish I did. Most of them asked when I was going to finish therod when they saw them. The Spar varnish finish they looked at and said "That's nice." They positively gushed when they saw thedipped polyurethane finishes. All the last 5 rods I've made the guys who ordered them wanted a polyurethane finish. So, what were the knocks against polyurethane? If it gets chipped you can't repair it.Yes you can. Use a very fine artists brush, fill in the ding, afterit is thoroughly dry use fine sandpaper and polishing compound.With a little practice you can repair it so that the repair isinvisible. If you should ever want to it can't be stripped off.This can also be done. I tested a varnish stripper I saw ina local hardware store that said "also strips polyurethanevarnishes" and By Golly the varnish peeled right off. Polyurethane is too glossy, looks too much like plastic.There are semi gloss and low gloss formulations outnow. The low gloss looks a lot like Spar varnish whenit's dry, except it's clear rather than slightly amber colored.You can mix stain in with polyurethane if you really needto match a certain color. This could be a plus or minus depending on how youview it - Polyurethane makes a rod stiffer. It has beenthe most noticeable in the 2 weight rods I have beenmaking. Two rods (actually three, but one was sold asa blank) both two weights, one with a tung oil finish,the other with a polyurethane finish. The polyurethanefinished one is noticeably stiffer. Otherwise they areas identical as I can make them. Same culm, sametaper. Comments?P.S. Just talking about surface finishes. I haven't triedimpregnating a rod. Darryl from dhaftel@att.com Thu Sep 17 08:19:23 1998 sender att.com!dhaftel (att.com!dhaftel); Thu Sep 17 08:03 CDT 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) (5.5.1960.3) Subject: RE: World's Best Finish Again with the repeats... Sorry folks, my server is wigging out! Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Haftel, Dennis Jay Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 1998 1:41 PM Subject: RE: World's Best Finish I dunno, Darryl... I *like* tung oil. I was thinking of finishing my first rod in it. I refinished an old SouthBend that way, blank done in oil, wraps in spar varnish and it looksgreat. Did your customers know about your finishes in advance??? Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: SalarFly@aol.com [SMTP:SalarFly@aol.com]Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 1998 12:54 PM Subject: World's Best Finish Okay maybe it isn't, I just got finished reading an old Herter'scatalog and everything was "The Best" or "World's Greatest"so I got caught up in the hype. But - over the last year I had been forced (kicking and screaming)to use polyurethane varnish. People just didn't like the tung oilfinish I did. Most of them asked when I was going to finish therod when they saw them. The Spar varnish finish they looked at and said "That's nice." They positively gushed when they saw thedipped polyurethane finishes. All the last 5 rods I've made the guys who ordered them wanted a polyurethane finish. So, what were the knocks against polyurethane? If it gets chipped you can't repair it.Yes you can. Use a very fine artists brush, fill in the ding, afterit is thoroughly dry use fine sandpaper and polishing compound.With a little practice you can repair it so that the repair isinvisible. If you should ever want to it can't be stripped off.This can also be done. I tested a varnish stripper I saw ina local hardware store that said "also strips polyurethanevarnishes" and By Golly the varnish peeled right off. Polyurethane is too glossy, looks too much like plastic.There are semi gloss and low gloss formulations outnow. The low gloss looks a lot like Spar varnish whenit's dry, except it's clear rather than slightly amber colored.You can mix stain in with polyurethane if you really needto match a certain color. This could be a plus or minus depending on how youview it - Polyurethane makes a rod stiffer. It has beenthe most noticeable in the 2 weight rods I have beenmaking. Two rods (actually three, but one was sold asa blank) both two weights, one with a tung oil finish,the other with a polyurethane finish. The polyurethanefinished one is noticeably stiffer. Otherwise they areas identical as I can make them. Same culm, sametaper. Comments?P.S. Just talking about surface finishes. I haven't triedimpregnating a rod. Darryl from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Sep 17 09:04:47 1998 0500 Subject: Re: World's Best Finish Thanks, Darryl, John, Richard, and othersHarry john channer wrote: At 02:11 PM 9/16/98 -0500, you wrote:Darryl,Tell me a little more about your polishing experiments. Iaccidentally got some hot-melt type ferrule cement on one of my rods, Harry;Go to an auto body paint supplier, they will have 3-M Perfect It 11rubbingcompound and Finesse It 11 machine polish, about $10-$15 apint(lifetimesupply). from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Sep 17 09:07:06 1998 0500 Subject: Re: World's Best Finish Friends,What would happen if I lightly took the offending glue off withsandpaper,then touched it to a soft cloth buffing wheel with white rouge, or anotherplastic polishing compound? I may try it on something inconspicuous, likeunder the reel seat filler. Any ideas?Harry john channer wrote: At 02:11 PM 9/16/98 -0500, you wrote:Darryl,Tell me a little more about your polishing experiments. Iaccidentally got some hot-melt type ferrule cement on one of my rods,right over the signature. Though I might get away with it, I'm hesitantto heat it enough to liquify the glue again and am thinking of polishingthe glue out. (Yeah, I know, I should have been more careful... noscolding necessary)Thanks in advance,Harry BoydSalarFly@aol.com wrote: If it gets chipped you can't repair it.Yes you can. Use a very fine artists brush, fill in the ding, afterit is thoroughly dry use fine sandpaper and polishing compound.With a little practice you can repair it so that the repair isinvisible. Harry;Go to an auto body paint supplier, they will have 3-M Perfect It 11rubbingcompound and Finesse It 11 machine polish, about $10-$15 apint(lifetimesupply). Then you can sand out any flaws in your varnish with 1200-1500grit sandpaper then use the rubbing compound followed by the polish. Ittakes a little elbow grease, but when you are done you won't be able totell the touch-up from the rest of the finish. If you get too heavy withthe sandpaper and go thru the finish to the cane, take a dubbing needleandput a drop of varnish in the void. Build the finish back up this way untilit is higher than the surrounding surface. Wait at least three days for itto harden, then sand flat and polish out. I don't know if this works onpolyurethane, I use Man-O-War spar varnish and it works great. GoodLuck John Channer from dr_matro@cyberramp.net Thu Sep 17 09:51:07 1998 ESMTP idJAA29988 Ste@cyberramp.net, 106A@cyberramp.net, Dallas@cyberramp.net,TX@cyberramp.net, 75202@cyberramp.net Subject: Re: Southern Rodmakers Gathering Wayne If you can find a Thursday vintage, it would be perfect. It's a toughone to find in this neck of the woods, as the wine-o's start lining upearly for it. from dr_matro@cyberramp.net Thu Sep 17 09:56:01 1998 ESMTP idJAA02966 Ste@cyberramp.net, 106A@cyberramp.net, Dallas@cyberramp.net,TX@cyberramp.net, 75202@cyberramp.net Subject: Re: Southern Rodmakers Gathering TonyNot too familiar with some of the down-under imports.What region and winery Is Gum Boot out of?Can you recommend a decent year? Does it go with wild game? from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Sep 17 10:42:43 1998 Subject: Re: World's Best Finish In a message dated 9/17/98 4:25:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time,dhaftel@att.comwrites: I dunno, Darryl... I *like* tung oil. I was thinking of finishing my first rod in it. I refinished an old SouthBend that way, blank done in oil, wraps in spar varnish and it looksgreat.Did your customers know about your finishes in advance??? I like tung oil too, but just try and sell a rod with just a tung oilfinish on it. I've sold exactly one. I have a few rods - results ofdifferent experiments - finished in different ways. If a potentialbuyer is local I show him the different rods with the differentfinishes. In the case of a couple rods I made, used for a whileand sold as used, the buyers wanted me to varnish over the tung oil finish. Darryl from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Sep 17 13:26:27 1998 (modemcable18.174.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: World's Best Finish Perhaps the marketing for tung oil finishes should be to mention that alesshigh-gloss finish will spook fewer fish on bright days. After all,companiessuch as G. Loomis sell lots of matte-finished graphite rods for that veryreason. A tung oil finish is a feature, not a bug. Richard -----Original Message----- SalarFly@aol.com Subject: Re: World's Best Finish In a message dated 9/17/98 4:25:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time,dhaftel@att.comwrites: I dunno, Darryl...I *like* tung oil.I was thinking of finishing my first rod in it. I refinished an oldSouthBend that way, blank done in oil, wraps in spar varnish and it looksgreat.Did your customers know about your finishes in advance??? I like tung oil too, but just try and sell a rod with just a tung oilfinish on it. I've sold exactly one. I have a few rods - results ofdifferent experiments - finished in different ways. If a potentialbuyer is local I show him the different rods with the differentfinishes. In the case of a couple rods I made, used for a whileand sold as used, the buyers wanted me to varnish over the tungoil finish. Darryl from anglport@con2.com Thu Sep 17 15:03:51 1998 Subject: Re: Southern Rodmakers Gathering Wayne,Go with the Chateau Gum Boot. It sounds like it was MADE for your entree.Red for meat, white for fish, Gum for rodent.Enjoy the outing,Art At 09:09 PM 9/16/98 EDT, you wrote:Ken -I'm not up on my wines - do you think a vintage Strawberry Hill overicewould do???? from mevans@acxiom.com Thu Sep 17 15:55:09 1998 Exchange ServerInternet Mail Connector Version 4.0.996.62) Sep 199815:58:18 -0500 Subject: RE: Southern Rodmaker's Gathering 4.0.996.62 PAA16419 As an Arkansas citizen (I do live there), I'm durn near offended.. Coon is for you uppity types. There ain't no need to hunt if yer close to a highway. Just bring a black table cloth with a white stripe down the middle. Don't bring plates - we use our hubcaps when we travel. (You can make a really good cup of Louisiana style coffee - at * the price - from the grounds inside the hubcaps.) BTW: Best pickup line for a Mountain Home Bar? ... Nice Tooth. :-)---------- Subject: Re: Southern Rodmakers Gathering WayneYou mean like a little coon casserole with possum on the half shell.Slow simmered on the manifold. Hadn't thought of that, but it would beinteresting.See you there, and bring the appropriate wine, would you?Ken from FlyTyr@southshore.com Thu Sep 17 16:02:02 1998 (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA01525 for ;Thu, 17 Sep1998 16:02:17 - 0500 Subject: Re: Southern Rodmakers Gathering You guys are making me hungry, I have been collecting some good redsquirrel roadkills. The skins are great so I think I will save the meat till next week. I'llput them under the porch till then.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Art Port wrote: Wayne,Go with the Chateau Gum Boot. It sounds like it was MADE for yourentree.Red for meat, white for fish, Gum for rodent.Enjoy the outing,Art At 09:09 PM 9/16/98 EDT, you wrote:Ken -I'm not up on my wines - do you think a vintage Strawberry Hill overicewould do???? from jkallo@midwest.net Thu Sep 17 19:05:17 1998 Subject: sharpening stone and depth gague Hello all,First let me thank you all for the great response I receivedconcerning mysearch for cane. I have been made to feel really welcome, and I thank youall for that.Now my question: I am looking for the most economical source for adepthgague and sharpening stone. I have searched the web for both with limitedresults. Japan Woodworker (?) has a combination 1000-6000 grit stonefor$40.00--nearly double what the Cane Builder's FAQ suggested you couldfindone for. I have been able to find only one source for depth gagues on theweb and their prices were very high. If I were home I'd run down to a pawnshop and pick up a depth gague, but for some reason Carbondale is bereftofpawnbrokers. Any ideas would be appreciated. Also, if anyone has a surplusof either of these two tools I'd be interested in hearing about it. Trying to make a rod on a shoe-string,Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from rclarke@eou.edu Thu Sep 17 19:23:21 1998 Subject: Re: sharpening stone and depth gague Joe, check Woodcraft. They have a websight, and have the combo stoneslower than the price you quoted (I think). There are a number of importhardware companies that sell the depth guages in varying prices/quality. Igot mine from Enco. May not be top of the line, but it works for abeginner. They also carry a base for it that works well for me. Hope topurchase a nice one when I am rich someday :) Take your time gatheringtools and I think you will be able to get what you need within a reasonablecost (maybe a little more than a shoe string). best of luck. Wayne, if you are out there, I borrowed your video from Tom Penrose andreally was impressed with all the tips in it. Thank you so much for yourefforts in making it! I also hope to purchase it someday when I am notquite as rich as purchasing an expensive depth guage. (End of day and I ammaking less sense as I go) Anyway, big thank you to you and to Tom forletting me see it. I fished with Tom again last Sunday and was veryimpressed with the Smythwick tapered 1 piece he built. Very nice! Tomisa great rodbuilder and continues to outfish me on the Wallowa. Robert Clarke(building #2 rod-the much discussed Driggs) ----------From: Joseph S.Kallo Subject: sharpening stone and depth gagueDate: Thursday, September 17, 1998 5:02 PM Hello all,First let me thank you all for the great response I receivedconcerningmysearch for cane. I have been made to feel really welcome, and I thank youall for that.Now my question: I am looking for the most economical source for adepthgague and sharpening stone. I have searched the web for both withlimitedresults. Japan Woodworker (?) has a combination 1000-6000 grit stonefor$40.00--nearly double what the Cane Builder's FAQ suggested you couldfindone for. I have been able to find only one source for depth gagues on theweb and their prices were very high. If I were home I'd run down to apawnshop and pick up a depth gague, but for some reason Carbondale is bereftofpawnbrokers. Any ideas would be appreciated. Also, if anyone has asurplusof either of these two tools I'd be interested in hearing about it. Trying to make a rod on a shoe-string,Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from jjohnso4@bellsouth.net Thu Sep 17 19:43:58 1998 UAA27392 Subject: Re: sharpening stone and depth gague At 07:02 PM 9/17/98 -0500, Joe wrote:Now my question: I am looking for the most economical source for adepthgague and sharpening stone. I have searched the web for both with limitedresults. Japan Woodworker (?) has a combination 1000-6000 grit stonefor$40.00--nearly double what the Cane Builder's FAQ suggested you couldfindone for. Hi Joe, Take a look at: http://www.cnh.mv.net/ipusers/gunterman/SCARY.HTM It gives you instructions for making a plane iron razor sharp using 7-8sheets of sandpaper and a $10 piece of glass. Cya,Johnny----------------------------------------------Johnny JohnsonLilburn, GA from ragnarig@integrityol.com Thu Sep 17 20:06:41 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A43930014C; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 18:15:37 PDT Subject: Re: World's Best Finish I like tung oil too, but just try and sell a rod with just a tung oilfinish on it. I've sold exactly one. I have a few rods - results ofdifferent experiments - finished in different ways. If a potentialbuyer is local I show him the different rods with the differentfinishes. In the case of a couple rods I made, used for a whileand sold as used, the buyers wanted me to varnish over the tungoil finish. Darryl This has happened to me on a number of occasions. In one instance the guywrote me out a check for my asking price, which was too high in the firstplace, handed it to me and said from the doorway, "Give me a call after it'sfinished." I was so dumbfounded I just watched him drive away without aword. Davy from stpete@netten.net Thu Sep 17 20:11:29 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA13505 for Subject: Re: sharpening stone and depth gague Joe, Ditto the Scary Sharp System. It works. Also, surely there is a tool/machinist supplyhouse near you. If not,get an MSC, Harbor Freight, or Enco catalog. You can purchase a useableDial Indicator for 9.99 most places (Chinese made) also you can find auseable dial micrometer for 19.99 or thereabouts. Most of these willwork well enough to get started. I've checked my Chinese made toolsagainst known thicknesses of shim and the cheap tools are good enough from 1" steel square stock scrap or aluminum or check out Jon Lintvet'sweb site and tool section. Get Wayne's book if you don't have it. Both the instruction and tapersare well worth every penny you spend on it. Rick CrenshawJoseph S.Kallo wrote: Hello all,First let me thank you all for the great response I receivedconcerningmysearch for cane. I have been made to feel really welcome, and I thank youall for that.Now my question: I am looking for the most economical source for adepthgague and sharpening stone. I have searched the web for both withlimitedresults. Japan Woodworker (?) has a combination 1000-6000 grit stonefor$40.00--nearly double what the Cane Builder's FAQ suggested you couldfindone for. I have been able to find only one source for depth gagues on theweb and their prices were very high. If I were home I'd run down to apawnshop and pick up a depth gague, but for some reason Carbondale is bereftofpawnbrokers. Any ideas would be appreciated. Also, if anyone has asurplusof either of these two tools I'd be interested in hearing about it. Trying to make a rod on a shoe-string,Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Sep 17 20:26:10 1998 (modemcable18.174.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: sharpening stone and depth gague Hey, Rob. I missed the discussion on the Driggs. Where do I find that taper? Richard Robert Clarke(building #2 rod-the much discussed Driggs) from rclarke@eou.edu Thu Sep 17 20:38:29 1998 Subject: Re: was sharpening stone -now Driggs taper Copy of a post that Chris Bogart sent me of a copy of a post from TonyYoung, which appears to be a copy of a post from Wayne. So this is 4thhand? information, but still should be good. It is on 6" centers and Iused the web based version of hexrod to convert to 5" centers. Chris saysthis is a 4wt rod, and I am looking forward to getting it done and tryingit out. Thanks Chris, Tony and Wayne! Rob As I said earlier the Driggs or Driggs River Special was a 7' 2" rod-named for a UP stream - I have cast the original when it was in theshop. AllYoungs were made on 6" center spacings starting at the butt so theoriginallisting is as follows: 0" - 203"6" - 190"12" - 160"18" - 150"24" - 138"30" - 115"36" - 095"42" - .070" 0" - 265"6" - 265"12" - 265"18" - 260"24" - 245"30" - 225"36" - 215"42" - 205" End of Wayne's post/********************************************************/ Tony again, from what I've ben told rods based on PHY have had a bad trot due to people making them on 5' centres and not the 6" as this taper is. Boy, I can almost hear all those allen keys in shaking hands excitedly adjusting planing forms now:-) ----------From: Richard Nantel Subject: RE: sharpening stone and depth gagueDate: Thursday, September 17, 1998 6:10 PM Hey, Rob. I missed the discussion on the Driggs. Where do I find thattaper? Richard Robert Clarke(building #2 rod-the much discussed Driggs) from jaquin@netsync.net Thu Sep 17 21:35:45 1998 quartz.netsync.net(8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA15204 for; Thu, 17 Sep1998 22:34:58 -0400 Subject: Re: sharpening stone and depth gague Joseph S.Kallo wrote: Hello all,First let me thank you all for the great response I receivedconcerningmysearch for cane. I have been made to feel really welcome, and I thank youall for that.Now my question: I am looking for the most economical source for adepthgague and sharpening stone. I have searched the web for both withlimitedresults. Japan Woodworker (?) has a combination 1000-6000 grit stonefor$40.00--nearly double what the Cane Builder's FAQ suggested you couldfindone for. I have been able to find only one source for depth gagues on theweb and their prices were very high. If I were home I'd run down to apawnshop and pick up a depth gague, but for some reason Carbondale is bereftofpawnbrokers. Any ideas would be appreciated. Also, if anyone has asurplusof either of these two tools I'd be interested in hearing about it. Trying to make a rod on a shoe-string,Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at CarbondaleJoe: As an alternate to sharpening with a water stone set-up, I'm going touse diamond compound on a leather belt secured to a wooden wheelmountedon an electric motor shaft. Does a great job on polishing a compoundbevel on plane blade it's fast and simple.bill-of-materials:1-electric motor 1/4 to 1/2 hp 1750 rpm (junk yard special from oldwashers or dryers).1-sheave 6 inches diameter w/shaft dia to fit electric motor.(availablemost hardware stores approx. $7-10.1-piece of hardwood either solid or glued laminated 1 3/4 to 2 inchesthick to match width of leather belt, cut in 8 to 10 inch dia. circle.1- leather belt with a smooth finished side long enough to fit aroundcirclur block of wood =).1- bottle of contact cementwood to build bi-level base for mounting motor etc.misc screws and bolts to assemble base, and sheave to circular woodblock.optional blade sharping jig fixture available from wood working catalogssuch as trendlines etc. drill holes in sheave around outside dia. and/or on support spokes. attach securely to circular wood block with screws. Center as close aspossible. Take to Friend, wood shop etc. and have it squared & trued.Attach belt smooth face out to wood block with contact cement. Build two tiered support base. Upper level a couple inches higher thanradius of wood wheel. make bottom base bigger than top base so you haveroom to make/mount jig fixture to hold/guide plane blade. blade whenapplied to the wheel should be below the centerline of the wheel. useyour square to make sure when mounting motor, buffing wheel is square toblade holder/jig. rub a little oil into belt load belt with course compound. polish/grindintermediate bevel. clean belt with rubbing alcohol. load belt withfine polishing compound. polish final bevel. to resharpen polish finalbevel again. you're in business!! credit for this idea belongs to Tom Smithwick. contact me off list if you need sources of polishing compound. from jfoster@gte.net Thu Sep 17 21:44:59 1998 Subject: Re: sharpening stone and depth gague I didn't see anyone mention it but ENCO closed it's retail outlets, ithink they still have mailorder. they were bought out by MSC.. they hada 50/75% off sale their last two days of existance. i figure i savedabout a thou. jerry from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Sep 17 21:55:05 1998 Subject: Re: Southern Rodmakers Gathering Wayne It is even better if you fortify it with a bit of vodka - thenyou can go out and howl at the moon. Chris On Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:52:23 -0600, Ken Cole wrote: Wayne If you can find a Thursday vintage, it would be perfect. It's a toughone to find in this neck of the woods, as the wine-o's start lining upearly for it. from richjez@enteract.com Thu Sep 17 22:17:12 1998 0000 Subject: Re: sharpening stone and depth gague And you didn't tell us? Shame on you .Rich Jezioro At 07:46 PM 9/17/98 +0000, you wrote:I didn't see anyone mention it but ENCO closed it's retail outlets, ithink they still have mailorder. they were bought out by MSC.. they hada 50/75% off sale their last two days of existance. i figure i savedabout a thou. jerry *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ /||/______/_||_________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > from richjez@enteract.com Thu Sep 17 22:17:37 1998 0000 Subject: Re: sharpening stone and depth gague Look at garage sales and flea markets. I bought a 261 jeweled Ames depthgaugeat a flea market for $15 two weeks ago. CDCO in Mt. Prospect IL sellsChinesemachinery imports. They have a depth gauge for $9. They have a booth atthesame flea market. They also have a store. Phone # is 847-225- 4820.Garage sales can help too. Rich Jezioro At 07:02 PM 9/17/98 -0500, you wrote:Hello all,First let me thank you all for the great response I receivedconcerningmysearch for cane. I have been made to feel really welcome, and I thank youall for that.Now my question: I am looking for the most economical source for adepthgague and sharpening stone. I have searched the web for both with limitedresults. Japan Woodworker (?) has a combination 1000-6000 grit stonefor$40.00--nearly double what the Cane Builder's FAQ suggested you couldfindone for. I have been able to find only one source for depth gagues on theweb and their prices were very high. If I were home I'd run down to apawnshop and pick up a depth gague, but for some reason Carbondale is bereftofpawnbrokers. Any ideas would be appreciated. Also, if anyone has asurplusof either of these two tools I'd be interested in hearing about it. Trying to make a rod on a shoe-string,Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ /||/______/_||_________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > from KDLoup@aol.com Thu Sep 17 22:48:09 1998 Subject: Re: sharpening stone and depth gague Lee Valley Tools 1(800)871-8158 sells a "Basic Cabinetmaker'sSharpening Set"(item #05D05.01), which includes the 1000/4000 stone and the Veritashoningguide and jig, for $48.95. A Lee Valley dial indicator (88N31.01) can behad thebest buy for the caliper and indicator. Model #610-5062 includes caliperandindicator for $26.99. The indicator base 610-5000 is $10.99. Kurt Loup from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Sep 17 23:00:24 1998 Fri, 18 Sep 1998 12:00:08 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Southern Rodmakers Gathering On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Ken Cole wrote: TonyNot too familiar with some of the down-under imports.What region and winery Is Gum Boot out of?Can you recommend a decent year? Does it go with wild game? Not a lot of this stuff gets exported and normaly it's only available from purveyers of chilled methelated spirits. The region of Chateu Gum Boot is the Swineherd Valley and the winery(?) is Feedlot Flats. The plonk itself is is cheeky little number with an earthy palate and an aggresively agricultural after taste. Easily a 4 star wine for it's type.The best vintage would have to be from the early days of August 98.Best not drunk at all, but goes well with barbaqued sheep dags and stirfryed goanna giblets. Could be a good drink with possum stew. ;-) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from ragnarig@integrityol.com Thu Sep 17 23:15:15 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A06FB000FA; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:24:15 PDT Subject: Re: sharpening stone and depth gague boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002D_01BDE27F.FC0D5CA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01BDE27F.FC0D5CA0 Jerry I f you've got about twenty bucks and want to save yourself some trouble =(and get to work a lot sooner) you can also use a hard felt wheel in =place of the leather strop. Wheels are available at woodworker's supply = An old grinder motor with this on one side and a fine Aluminum oxide =wheel on the other is about all you'll ever need (well, a good diamond =stone might come in handy for flattening etc.) and it will really save =you time- or money, if that's what you are about. Speaking of greedy bastards, one of the finest woodworkers I know, a =renowned European luthier, swears by a similar system which uses wheels=of laminated paper (?) and a couple different compounds, one each for = As an alternate to sharpening with a water stone set-up, I'm going touse diamond compound on a leather belt secured to a wooden wheel =mountedon an electric motor shaft. Does a great job on polishing a compoundbevel on plane blade it's fast and simple.bill-of-materials:1-electric motor 1/4 to 1/2 hp 1750 rpm (junk yard special from oldwashers or dryers).1-sheave 6 inches diameter w/shaft dia to fit electric motor.(availablemost hardware stores approx. $7-10.1-piece of hardwood either solid or glued laminated 1 3/4 to 2 inchesthick to match width of leather belt, cut in 8 to 10 inch dia. circle.1- leather belt with a smooth finished side long enough to fit aroundcirclur block of wood =3D).1- bottle of contact cementwood to build bi-level base for mounting motor etc.misc screws and bolts to assemble base, and sheave to circular woodblock.optional blade sharping jig fixture available from wood working =catalogssuch as trendlines etc. attach securely to circular wood block with screws. Center as close aspossible. Take to Friend, wood shop etc. and have it squared & trued.Attach belt smooth face out to wood block with contact cement. Build two tiered support base. Upper level a couple inches higher thanradius of wood wheel. make bottom base bigger than top base so you =haveroom to make/mount jig fixture to hold/guide plane blade. blade whenapplied to the wheel should be below the centerline of the wheel. useyour square to make sure when mounting motor, buffing wheel is square =toblade holder/jig. rub a little oil into belt load belt with course compound. =polish/grindintermediate bevel. clean belt with rubbing alcohol. load belt withfine polishing compound. polish final bevel. to resharpen polish finalbevel again. you're in business!! credit for this idea belongs to Tom Smithwick. contact me off list if you need sources of polishing compound. ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01BDE27F.FC0D5CA0 Jerry I f you've got about = and want to save yourself some trouble (and get to work a lot sooner) = are available at woodworker's supply shops and by mail order through = An old grinder motorwith = one side and a fine Aluminum oxide wheel on the other is about all = need (well, a good diamond stone might come in handy for flattening = will really save you time- or money, if that's what you are =about. Speaking of greedy = the finest woodworkers I know, a renowned European luthier, swears by a= system which uses wheels of laminated paper (?) and a couple Davy = = = = = ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01BDE27F.FC0D5CA0-- from robert.kope@MCI2000.com Thu Sep 17 23:19:00 1998 with SMTP id forRODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu;Fri, 18 Sep 1998 04:18:25 +0000 (GMT) Subject: grooved soles boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDE27E.9D96BBE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDE27E.9D96BBE0 Darryl & list, Darryl - a month ago or so you had a $5 garage sale 9 1/2 plane you were = After nicking my steel forms a few times, I now believe that if the sole =of the plane is flat and it will shave a spline, it will also shave the =forms. I have not tried recessing the adjustable foot, but I'm =convinced that a grooved sole is the only way to go. I thought I =remembered seeing detailed instructions on grooving the sole of a plane, =but cannot seem to find them. I would appreciate anyone pointing me in =the right direction. How wide a groove is recommended? Thanks in advance, ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDE27E.9D96BBE0 Darryl & list, Darryl - a month ago or so you hada = sale 9 1/2 plane you were going to try recessing the adjustable foot = After nicking my steel forms afew = believe that if the sole of the plane is flat and it will shave a = remembered seeing detailed instructions on grooving the sole of a plane, = = right direction. How wide a groove is recommended? Thanks in advance, Robert = ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDE27E.9D96BBE0-- from robert.kope@MCI2000.com Thu Sep 17 23:30:27 1998 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 04:29:49 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: sharpening stone and depth gague I got a dial indicator and base from Enco recently and the base was notdeepenough. The one they now sell is only about 3/4 inch high and will notallow you to set the indicator high enough that the tip will go all the wayup. If this is confusing, with a 60 degree point and the indicator set into thehole as shallow as possible, if you set it on a flat surface, the base isabout 1/8 inch off the surface. I put my indicator in a block of wood. -- Robert Kope-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: sharpening stone and depth gague Lee Valley Tools 1(800)871-8158 sells a "Basic Cabinetmaker'sSharpeningSet"(item #05D05.01), which includes the 1000/4000 stone and the Veritashoningguide and jig, for $48.95. A Lee Valley dial indicator (88N31.01) can behad isthebest buy for the caliper and indicator. Model #610-5062 includescaliperandindicator for $26.99. The indicator base 610-5000 is $10.99. Kurt Loup from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Sep 18 00:42:03 1998 Subject: Re: grooved soles In a message dated 9/17/98 9:21:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time,robert.kope@MCI2000.com writes: I thought I remembered seeing detailed instructions on grooving the soleofa plane, but cannot seem to find them. I would appreciate anyone pointingme in the right direction. How wide a groove is recommended? No, haven't tried grooving just the foot yet. Instructions for grooving thesolewas in the Planing Form newsletter about two years ago. The grooveshould be about half the width of your planing form wide. For me it's 3/4 inch. Darryl from channer@hubwest.com Fri Sep 18 01:08:16 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A936857012C; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 00:09:58 MDT Subject: Re: grooved soles At 09:03 PM 9/17/98 -0700, you wrote:Darryl & list, Darryl - a month ago or so you had a $5 garage sale 9 1/2 plane you weregoing to try recessing the adjustable foot on. Did you ever try it? After nicking my steel forms a few times, I now believe that if the soleof the plane is flat and it will shave a spline, it will also shave theforms. I have not tried recessing the adjustable foot, but I'm convincedthat a grooved sole is the only way to go. I thought I remembered seeingdetailed instructions on grooving the sole of a plane, but cannot seem tofind them. I would appreciate anyone pointing me in the right direction.How wide a groove is recommended? Thanks in advance, Robert Kope Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\ATTACH\grooveds.htm" Robert;You are right, the grooved sole is the only way to go. If you have a tablesaw, it is easy to use the fence to guide the plane., otherwise, clamp astraight edge to a hard , flat surface. Use wet or dry sandpaper strips 3/4" wide spray glued to the surface. Set up the fence to center the plane onthe strip and start rubbing. It can take a while and a few strips ofsandpaper(be carefull to keep everything in the same place when youchangepaper.), but eventually you get there. I went to .005 on mine and it worksgreat. Coarser grits of paper will cut faster and last longer, the finergrits will do a nicer job, but don't last as long. I used 150 grit. Keepthe blade in the plane, just back it well into the body of the plane so youdon't groove it, too. Good luck.John Channer from sniderja@email.uc.edu Fri Sep 18 08:15:19 1998 Subject: reel seat inserts, oxidized nickel silver hardware, and rodfinishes Am now completing my 8th rod since December(with the help and extremepatience of all you fine folks). Most were short (thanks to Tom Smithwickand A. J. Thramer), one-piece, nodeless (thanks to Chris Bogart) models,and one Sir Darryl Favorite in a 3-pc. All of them have caught numerousfish, with many in the 18-22" range this summer (the 22" brown on a 4'4"A.J. Thramer taper), and the Sir Darryl has now notched up its 229thGrayling (only to have the tip section fail, but that's yet another story). 1) I have been using a wipe on oil and urethane finish in both satin andalso in a gloss finish. While I have received numerous compliments on thisfinish, I get the feeling that I am somehow "cheating" and now would liketo kick up my level of quality by attempting to dip or spray the finish. Iam afraid that the learning curve will again be very steep. I have all ofthe info from recent threads as well as from the archives. Any comments?Encouragement? Hints? 2) I would now also like to try to build my own reel seat inserts. I dohave a wood lathe. I have seen very little on this particular topic in thearchives. Any suggestions? Can it be done? What tools are needed (router,type of router blade, jig, mandrel)? What are the tool sources? Should Isimply forget it? 3) I have been using Dave LeClair's excellent oxidizing compound fordarkening nickeled silver ferrules and reel seat hardware. However, I seemto be having difficulty in protecting the oxidized coating. Any suggestionson specific brands of varnish or other coating material, and how to applyit? Just returned from a month of fishing in Montana where I made a newfriendwhile fishing the Missouri who happened to be in the sheetmetal/heating/air conditioning business (now retired). I mentioned thedifficulty in obtaining oven shells for bamboo rod building, and hevolunteered to build me one on the spot so I could bring it home with me.It is based on Wayne's design; however, he added 2" of insulation allaround, used a heavier grade of sheet metal, included a heavy duty cage,two sliding rails to which to attach the strip heater (since we both had no thing is impressive. When I asked him what this might cost to have made,hereckoned somewhere around $800-$900. Talk about overkill!I wired it up last weekend and fired it up a few times for testing. WOW!!Jerry Snider from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Fri Sep 18 08:25:57 1998 0400 Subject: Re[2]: World's Best Finish Just another opinion...they're a dime a dozen, I know...a lot of people that really like antique furniture (American or otherwise,and not necessarily that expensive) wouldn't be caught dead with a glossy finish (I am no expert on this but I know people with such furniture and have heard them say this). The wood's natural patina seems to come through better. Now bamboo rods are not furniture, but having seen Dennis's South Bend, I think the finish really looks very nice, "natural and warm". Of course this is all a matter of taste. I like variety and I happen to like both..Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: RE: World's Best Finish Author: at Tcpgate Again with the repeats... Sorry folks, my server is wigging out! Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Haftel, Dennis Jay Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 1998 1:41 PM Subject: RE: World's Best Finish I dunno, Darryl... I *like* tung oil. I was thinking of finishing my first rod in it. I refinished an old SouthBend that way, blank done in oil, wraps in spar varnish and it looksgreat. Did your customers know about your finishes in advance??? Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: SalarFly@aol.com [SMTP:SalarFly@aol.com]Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 1998 12:54 PM Subject: World's Best Finish Okay maybe it isn't, I just got finished reading an old Herter'scatalog and everything was "The Best" or "World's Greatest"so I got caught up in the hype. But - over the last year I had been forced (kicking and screaming)to use polyurethane varnish. People just didn't like the tung oilfinish I did. Most of them asked when I was going to finish therod when they saw them. The Spar varnish finish they looked at and said "That's nice." They positively gushed when they saw thedipped polyurethane finishes. All the last 5 rods I've made the guys who ordered them wanted a polyurethane finish. So, what were the knocks against polyurethane? If it gets chipped you can't repair it.Yes you can. Use a very fine artists brush, fill in the ding, afterit is thoroughly dry use fine sandpaper and polishing compound.With a little practice you can repair it so that the repair isinvisible. If you should ever want to it can't be stripped off.This can also be done. I tested a varnish stripper I saw ina local hardware store that said "also strips polyurethanevarnishes" and By Golly the varnish peeled right off. Polyurethane is too glossy, looks too much like plastic.There are semi gloss and low gloss formulations outnow. The low gloss looks a lot like Spar varnish whenit's dry, except it's clear rather than slightly amber colored.You can mix stain in with polyurethane if you really needto match a certain color. This could be a plus or minus depending on how youview it - Polyurethane makes a rod stiffer. It has beenthe most noticeable in the 2 weight rods I have beenmaking. Two rods (actually three, but one was sold asa blank) both two weights, one with a tung oil finish,the other with a polyurethane finish. The polyurethanefinished one is noticeably stiffer. Otherwise they areas identical as I can make them. Same culm, sametaper. Comments?P.S. Just talking about surface finishes. I haven't triedimpregnating a rod. Darryl from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Fri Sep 18 09:29:23 1998 0500 Subject: Re: sharpening stone and depth gague Joe, than most sources. I've bought from him and he is very fair. until after the gathering to make your purchasing decisions. willbe quality cane available for those who need it at the Mountain Homegathering. Joseph S.Kallo wrote:Hello all, all search for cane. I have been made to feel really welcome, and I thankyouall for that. looking gague and sharpening stone. I have searched the web for both withlimitedresults. Japan Woodworker (?) has a combination 1000-6000 gritstonefor$40.00--nearly double what the Cane Builder's FAQ suggested youcouldfindone for. I have been able to find only one source for depth gagueson theweb and their prices were very high. If I were home I'd run down toa pawnshop and pick up a depth gague, but for some reason Carbondale isbereftofpawnbrokers. Any ideas would be appreciated. Also, if anyone has asurplusof either of these two tools I'd be interested in hearing about it. Trying to make a rod on a shoe-string,Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from dr_matro@cyberramp.net Fri Sep 18 09:32:01 1998 ESMTP idJAA23557 Ste@cyberramp.net, 106A@cyberramp.net, Dallas@cyberramp.net,TX@cyberramp.net, 75202@cyberramp.net Subject: Re: Southern Rodmakers Gathering Tony Uh, thanks. I think. from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Sep 18 09:50:35 1998 Subject: Re: reel seat inserts In a message dated 9/18/98 1:20:45 PM, you wrote: Jerry - If you have the lathe, you will have no problems. If you use thepocket type butt cap shown in the Garrison book, a round insert right offthelathe will work. If you want to use a round butt cap, Wayne's book will tellyou how to get a fingernail router bit and use it to cut a reel foot channel.A couple years ago I got a mandrel from Pentools in Irvine, Texas thatmaketurning the inserts an easier operation, but I did it freehand for yearsalso,just be careful with the dimensions and it will be pretty easy. I thinksomeone mentioned a few months ago that they had trouble contactingPentools. from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Sep 18 10:11:41 1998 Subject: Leather wheel Jerry - Thanks for the mention. A couple of points since the originalarticle.First, The diamond lapping paste works well, and is a necessity forcarbidetipped blades, but Woodcraft's Micro Fine Honing Compound works well onregular blades, and $25 will buy a lifetime supply. Second, A lathe is not necessary to true the wheel. Simply mount it onyourmotor or pillow block, and hold a piece of coarse sandpaper backed by aboardagainst it. The butt of the board should rest on the bench. This is slowerthan the lathe, but will work as well, if not better. http//:members.aol.com/tsmithwick from dhaftel@att.com Fri Sep 18 11:00:35 1998 sender att.com!dhaftel (att.com!dhaftel); Fri Sep 18 10:26 EDT 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) (5.5.1960.3) Subject: Applying polyurethane Hi all, Has anyone tried the latex glove method of applying polyurethanevarnishes?I'd like to do the tube thing, but I don't have "enough house" to do it.It's really a shame too 'cause there's no SWMBO to deal with (just alandlord, and he can be bought)!! Dennis Haftel from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Fri Sep 18 11:07:26 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2b6);Fri, 18Sep 1998 12:15:46 -0400 Subject: Cane Is there anyone in the Central NY area (or close to Ithaca) who would like to split a cane order? I don't have the space to take 20 poles myself. I figure we could get together one weekend and take turns picking culms to be fair. Take care,Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from phillips@library.ucsf.edu Fri Sep 18 11:33:21 1998 Subject: Re: Driggs taper At 06:37 PM 9/17/98 -0700, you wrote:Chris saysthis is a 4wt rod, and I am looking forward to getting it done and tryingit out. Thanks Chris, Tony and Wayne! RobThe Paul Young Company advertises the Driggs as a 5 wt. for under 40 ftcasts, and a 4 wt. for reaching longer distances. Is it anyone's experience that this taper is really a 4wt. all around?John H. Phillips III e- mail:phillips@library.ucsf.eduInterlibrary Loan Rm 202Health Sciences LibraryUniversity of California530 Parnassus AveSan Francisco, CA 94143- 0840PH: (415) 476-8383FAX: (415) 476-7940 from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Sep 18 11:33:40 1998 Subject: Why I Dip Since I posted my views on polyurethane finishes, I have been getting a few emails asking how I apply the polyurethane, andwhen I say I dip my rods, emails asking what the advantagesof dipping are. I thought others on the list might be interestedalso. This list has many excellent rodmakers who put their finisheson in many different ways. Some spray them on, some brush them on, I use a dip tube. I'm not saying that dipping is better,just that this is why I dip my rods. My dip tube is a little different than most dip tubes. I didn't have the space to set up a traditional withdraw the rod dip tube so I put a PVC pipe on a 2 x 4 stand, put a valve at the bottom of the pipe, and drained the varnish instead of pulling the rod out. Thissolves another problem of dust getting on the drying varnish.Just leave the rod inside the tube until it sets up. To avoidclogging your valve, use a small can and submerge the valve in paint thinner from the outside. The advantages of dipping: It's a set it up, get it started, and come back an hour later,labor un-intensive operation. I let my rods soak in the liquid varnish for about 15 to 20minutes. I also give the rod a few twirls to break loose anybubbles that might be clinging to the surface. The soak allowsthe varnish to penetrate deeper than brushing or spraying. As the rod is being slowly pulled out of the varnish (or the varnishis slowly lowered away from the rod), the surface tension of the varnish draws the varnish off of the rod, and what is left is a very even, smooth coat of varnish. A coat like this can be achieved bybrushing or spraying, but it takes practice and a high level of skill.Dipping gives excellent results without having to develop the skill,and as I mentioned before, you can be doing other things as therod is being pulled or the tube is draining. Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Sep 18 11:45:32 1998 Subject: Re: Driggs taper In a message dated 9/18/98 9:34:03 AM Pacific Daylight Time,phillips@library.ucsf.edu writes: Is it anyone's experience that this taper is really a 4wt. all around? Bamboo rods seem to be more versatile than most peoplethink they are. I have used 4 to 6 wt lines on the Sir D Favoriteand the rod did an admirable job with them all. Try at least threeline weights with any bamboo rod before you decide on the lineweight. Darryl from hokkaido_flyfisher@yahoo.com Fri Sep 18 11:51:59 1998 Subject: Re: Why I Dip Darryl, Hoshihara-sensei, my rodmaking teacher has constructed his own dipping system, and with an electric motor is able to achieve a fine finish. I asked him about why he dips rather than brushing on the varnish, and he smiled ... even here in serene Japan, a 10 year daughter can come in unannounced and kick up a lot of dust ;-) Timing wise, he spends about 20 minutes for the first application per section (two piece). Christian ---SalarFly@aol.com wrote: Since I posted my views on polyurethane finishes, I have been getting a few emails asking how I apply the polyurethane, andwhen I say I dip my rods, emails asking what the advantagesof dipping are. I thought others on the list might be interestedalso. This list has many excellent rodmakers who put their finisheson in many different ways. Some spray them on, some brush them on, I use a dip tube. I'm not saying that dipping is better,just that this is why I dip my rods. My dip tube is a little different than most dip tubes. I didn't have the space to set up a traditional withdraw the rod dip tube so I put a PVC pipe on a 2 x 4 stand, put a valve at the bottom of the pipe, and drained the varnish instead of pulling the rod out. Thissolves another problem of dust getting on the drying varnish.Just leave the rod inside the tube until it sets up. To avoidclogging your valve, use a small can and submerge the valve in paint thinner from the outside. The advantages of dipping: It's a set it up, get it started, and come back an hour later,labor un-intensive operation. I let my rods soak in the liquid varnish for about 15 to 20minutes. I also give the rod a few twirls to break loose anybubbles that might be clinging to the surface. The soak allowsthe varnish to penetrate deeper than brushing or spraying. As the rod is being slowly pulled out of the varnish (or the varnishis slowly lowered away from the rod), the surface tension of the varnish draws the varnish off of the rod, and what is left is a very even, smooth coat of varnish. A coat like this can be achieved bybrushing or spraying, but it takes practice and a high level of skill.Dipping gives excellent results without having to develop the skill,and as I mentioned before, you can be doing other things as therod is being pulled or the tube is draining. Darryl ==Mr. Christian THALACKER Otaru University of CommerceMatsugae 2-6- 30 Otaru International Center #253047-0022 Hokkaido JAPAN Midori 3-5-21 Otaru 047 JAPANTel: (81) (134) 22-2671 Tel: (81) (134) 27-5261Fax: (81) (134) 27-5264 http://members.tripod.com/~Nijimasu/0.html_________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from phillips@library.ucsf.edu Fri Sep 18 12:09:27 1998 Subject: Re: Driggs taper At 12:44 PM 9/18/98 EDT, you wrote:In a message dated 9/18/98 9:34:03 AM Pacific Daylight Time,phillips@library.ucsf.edu writes: Is it anyone's experience that this taper is really a 4wt. all around? Bamboo rods seem to be more versatile than most peoplethink they are. I have used 4 to 6 wt lines on the Sir D Favoriteand the rod did an admirable job with them all. Try at least threeline weights with any bamboo rod before you decide on the lineweight. Darryl Thanks,John Phillips from rclarke@eou.edu Fri Sep 18 12:28:55 1998 Subject: Re: Why I Dip Sir D, I know we discussed this quite a while back. I constructed what Ithought was similar to what you are saying, but had the problem with thevalve. Could you take a photo of this set up and post at some point? Iwould be happy to post it on my web page if that would help. I amcurrently spraying on spar urethane (which I really like) but aminterested in the details of your setup. Thanks, Robert Clarke ----------From: SalarFly@aol.com Subject: Why I DipDate: Friday, September 18, 1998 9:33 AM Since I posted my views on polyurethane finishes, I have been getting a few emails asking how I apply the polyurethane, andwhen I say I dip my rods, emails asking what the advantagesof dipping are. I thought others on the list might be interestedalso. Darryl from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Sep 18 12:37:30 1998 (modemcable11.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Why I Dip Darryl, This is one of those totally obvious yet brilliant ideas. My homebrewingskills would suggest a simple clip on valve onto a piece of hose at thebottom of a PVC pipe would be all that is required to start and stop theflow. Is one dip enough or do you re-dip once the first finish is dry? Richard -----Original Message----- SalarFly@aol.com Subject: Why I Dip Since I posted my views on polyurethane finishes, I have beengetting a few emails asking how I apply the polyurethane, andwhen I say I dip my rods, emails asking what the advantagesof dipping are. I thought others on the list might be interestedalso. This list has many excellent rodmakers who put their finisheson in many different ways. Some spray them on, some brushthem on, I use a dip tube. I'm not saying that dipping is better,just that this is why I dip my rods. My dip tube is a little different than most dip tubes. I didn't havethe space to set up a traditional withdraw the rod dip tube so Iput a PVC pipe on a 2 x 4 stand, put a valve at the bottom of thepipe, and drained the varnish instead of pulling the rod out. Thissolves another problem of dust getting on the drying varnish.Just leave the rod inside the tube until it sets up. To avoidclogging your valve, use a small can and submerge the valvein paint thinner from the outside. The advantages of dipping: It's a set it up, get it started, and come back an hour later,labor un-intensive operation. I let my rods soak in the liquid varnish for about 15 to 20minutes. I also give the rod a few twirls to break loose anybubbles that might be clinging to the surface. The soak allowsthe varnish to penetrate deeper than brushing or spraying. As the rod is being slowly pulled out of the varnish (or the varnishis slowly lowered away from the rod), the surface tension of thevarnish draws the varnish off of the rod, and what is left is a veryeven, smooth coat of varnish. A coat like this can be achieved bybrushing or spraying, but it takes practice and a high level of skill.Dipping gives excellent results without having to develop the skill,and as I mentioned before, you can be doing other things as therod is being pulled or the tube is draining. Darryl from jkallo@midwest.net Fri Sep 18 12:52:24 1998 Subject: Re: sharpening stone and depth gague Thank you all for the help with the sharpening and depth gaguequestion. Ihave decided to use the Scary Sharp system; several people indicated theyactually like it better than using a stone. As for the depth gague, I willprobably go with Enco. I had several emails indicating that people werehappy with its performance, and it's really inexpensive. Looking forward to seeing you in Arkansas, Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Fri Sep 18 13:22:41 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id NAA11714 for (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id NAA31038 for ; Fri, 18 Sep1998 13:22:34 Subject: Re: Why dip? Another question for Darryl.. How much vertical space does your dip rig take? Are you filling thetube before putting the rod in? If so, it must still take a high ceiling to lower the rod in the vertical tube.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot- warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Sep 18 13:34:22 1998 Subject: Re: Why I Dip In a message dated 9/18/98 10:31:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time,rclarke@eou.eduwrites: Sir D, I know we discussed this quite a while back. I constructed what Ithought was similar to what you are saying, but had the problem withthevalve. Could you take a photo of this set up and post at some point? Iwould be happy to post it on my web page if that would help. I amcurrently spraying on spar urethane (which I really like) but aminterested in the details of your setup. Actually since that first one I have gone to just a small holedrilled in the bottom of the tube. I use a cork to plug it whenI fill it and put the rod in, then just pull the cork, and drain itback into the varnish can. Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Sep 18 13:36:08 1998 Subject: Re: Why I Dip In a message dated 9/18/98 10:38:42 AM Pacific Daylight Time,richard.nantel@videotron.ca writes: Is one dip enough or do you re-dip once the first finish is dry? I usually put on 3 to 5 coats depending on how it looks.I also use quite a bit of thinner. Several thin coats lookbetter than a couple of thick coats. Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Sep 18 13:42:11 1998 Subject: Re: Why dip? In a message dated 9/18/98 11:25:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time,stetzer@csd.uwm.edu writes: How much vertical space does your dip rig take? Are you filling thetube before putting the rod in? If so, it must still take a high ceiling to lower the rod in the vertical tube. Either way, makes no difference. Fill it, slide the rod in orTilt the tube, put the rod in, then fill it.I my case this stuff is out in the garage, and I have lots of headroomto get the rod in. Darryl from dhaftel@att.com Fri Sep 18 14:03:35 1998 sender att.com!dhaftel (att.com!dhaftel); Fri Sep 18 12:49 CDT 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) (5.5.1960.3) Subject: RE: Why I Dip ...Until the hose slips off the drip tube and you get varnish all overSWMBO's nice new wool berber. In other words, how do you preventthat????That kind of stuff scares the bejeezus outa me (even without a SWMBO,carpetis expensive)! Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Richard Nantel [SMTP:richard.nantel@videotron.ca]Sent: Friday, September 18, 1998 1:21 PM Subject: RE: Why I Dip Darryl, This is one of those totally obvious yet brilliant ideas. My homebrewingskills would suggest a simple clip on valve onto a piece of hose at thebottom of a PVC pipe would be all that is required to start and stop theflow. Is one dip enough or do you re-dip once the first finish is dry? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu SalarFly@aol.comSent: Friday, September 18, 1998 12:33 PM Subject: Why I Dip Since I posted my views on polyurethane finishes, I have beengetting a few emails asking how I apply the polyurethane, andwhen I say I dip my rods, emails asking what the advantagesof dipping are. I thought others on the list might be interestedalso. This list has many excellent rodmakers who put their finisheson in many different ways. Some spray them on, some brushthem on, I use a dip tube. I'm not saying that dipping is better,just that this is why I dip my rods. My dip tube is a little different than most dip tubes. I didn't havethe space to set up a traditional withdraw the rod dip tube so Iput a PVC pipe on a 2 x 4 stand, put a valve at the bottom of thepipe, and drained the varnish instead of pulling the rod out. Thissolves another problem of dust getting on the drying varnish.Just leave the rod inside the tube until it sets up. To avoidclogging your valve, use a small can and submerge the valvein paint thinner from the outside. The advantages of dipping: It's a set it up, get it started, and come back an hour later,labor un-intensive operation. I let my rods soak in the liquid varnish for about 15 to 20minutes. I also give the rod a few twirls to break loose anybubbles that might be clinging to the surface. The soak allowsthe varnish to penetrate deeper than brushing or spraying. As the rod is being slowly pulled out of the varnish (or the varnishis slowly lowered away from the rod), the surface tension of thevarnish draws the varnish off of the rod, and what is left is a veryeven, smooth coat of varnish. A coat like this can be achieved bybrushing or spraying, but it takes practice and a high level of skill.Dipping gives excellent results without having to develop the skill,and as I mentioned before, you can be doing other things as therod is being pulled or the tube is draining. Darryl from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Sep 18 14:03:53 1998 (modemcable11.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Why I Dip Hi Darryl. Your system obviously works fine. If you need to further controlthe flow in oder to pause after dipping the wraps, etc, you could probablyattach a piece of flexible plastic tubing to the drain hole and use one ofthose syphon clips used in wine and beer making. Squeezing the clip shutwill stop the flow. Richard -----Original Message----- SalarFly@aol.com Subject: Re: Why I Dip In a message dated 9/18/98 10:31:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time,rclarke@eou.eduwrites: Sir D, I know we discussed this quite a while back. I constructed what Ithought was similar to what you are saying, but had the problem withthevalve. Could you take a photo of this set up and post at some point? Iwould be happy to post it on my web page if that would help. I amcurrently spraying on spar urethane (which I really like) but aminterested in the details of your setup. Actually since that first one I have gone to just a small holedrilled in the bottom of the tube. I use a cork to plug it whenI fill it and put the rod in, then just pull the cork, and drain itback into the varnish can. Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Sep 18 14:59:51 1998 Subject: Re: Why I Dip In a message dated 9/18/98 12:13:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time,richard.nantel@videotron.ca writes: If you need to further controlthe flow in oder to pause after dipping the wraps, etc, One thing I've found is that if the varnish is thinned, and the drain rate is slow enough - about an inch a minute - I don'thave to pause at the guides. Darryl from cmj@post11.tele.dk Fri Sep 18 15:31:08 1998 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0200 Subject: Sv: Why I Dip PAA13982 Using the same method as Sir D, I made a few modifications: tube,taped to a broomstick. Advantages are threefold: You can see whats goingon, Cheapto buy and discardable when a poly film is developing on the inside. (no useforcleaning the thing with toxic thinners) Furthermore do remember that the fumes when drying are heavier than air,so Youhave to pull out the plug and valve at the bottom, making hardening faster. Finally: when "dipping" remember that the falling surface of the polymeans airentering the tube from above. Use some kind of airfilter to prevent dustfromentering as well. As to the mix of poly and thinner, I have found a 50/50 mix to work forme. fishbowls.You can get them in any pet shop. As You might see, I like to keep my rodmaking simple, as I don't find thatmultibillion dollars gadgets make better rods. My rules for rodmaking: Use the best cane availablekeep the plane razor sharptake your timefocus on the essentials regards, Carsten Thats about it.regardsCarsten from cmj@post11.tele.dk Fri Sep 18 15:31:11 1998 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0200 Subject: Sv: Why I Dip PAA26070 I use the same method as Sir D. I invented it myself at congratulatedmyself forthe brilliant idea until I found out, others had come up with the same idea.Ah,vanity, tube,taped to a broomstick. Advantages are threefold: You can see whats goingon, Cheapto buy and discardable when a poly film is developing on the inside. (no useforcleaning the thing with toxic thinners) Furthermore do remember that the fumes when drying are heavier than air,so Youhave to pull out the plug and valve at the bottom, making hardening faster. Finally: when "dipping" remember that the falling surface of the polymeans airentering the tube from above. Use some kind of airfilter to prevent dustfromentering as well.As to the mix of poly and thinner, I have found a 50/50 mix to work forme. fishbowls.You can get them in any pet shop.As You might see, I like to keep my rodmaking simple, as I don't find thatmultibillion dollars gadgets make better rods. regardsCarsten from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Fri Sep 18 15:32:23 1998 ; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 08:32:08 +1200 Subject: Re: Applying polyurethane Dennis , I tried the latex glove method a few weeks ago and was very impressedwiththe finish . It was certainly better then I could do with a brush . I didmake a couple of changes to the process outlined by Bob Kambeitz in TheBestof Planning Form . I had difficulty finding the type of bottle recommended in the article andused a cheap ($2) plastic funnel from the local hardware store. It has ahalf inch diameter at the bottom of the funnel and i cut part of the topoff so the top diameter was about 3 inches . I made a couple of grooves onthe outside of the funnel about half an inch up from the bottom and theseenable a tight fit for a rubber band to hold the latex material onto thefunnel and it does not seem to leak. I made a mistake with the first rod in that I was too impatient and theconcentration required to move the funnel down at what seems anincrediblyslow rate of 4" a minute escaped me , and I got one of those " your tea ison the table and getting cold so come and get it now !!" commands soendedup with an over thick finish and very much rounded finished section on thetip piece from moving too quickly . A heavy use of sandpaper fixed that soIthouht further about Bobs comment that some people had elaboratesystems ofpulleys to achieve a steady movement of the varnish container as I wasreluctant to take a jackhammer to the garage floor. I have now made up a simple system which I have tried twice and it seemstowork really well. It is not particualy elaborate and only took me a coupleof hours to make. Unfortunately I am somewhat " technology impaired" anddonot have a scanner so I will endeavour to describe what I did . If you donot understand , which will almost certainly be due to my inadequatedescription rather then your ability to understand , then you may like tocontact me off list for a more detailed explanation. My system is built on the side wall of the old wardrobe I use as a dryingcupboard which has some minor advantages in that it has a couple of lightbulbs in the bottom to provide a little heat and it is possible to close thedoor to keep out drafts and dust. I nailed two pieces of 5 foot long 2" by 2" pieces of timber onto the wall.75 of an inch apart to form a "slide". I left about 1 foot of wall spaceabove and below the slide . This slide was located about 1" out from ashelfin the cupboard which took up the back half of the cupboard and was aboutlevel with the top of the slide rails . I then found a piece of .75 "thickness timber about 8" long and and 4" wide. I made this into a "carrier" to slide between the "rails" . The thickness of the rails meant the therewas very little sideways movement of the carrier and it slides up anddownthe rails vertically. I attached the funnel to the carrier by cutting anangle off the top off the carrier piece and using a couple of flat headnails to nail through the plastic such that the funnel was vertical whenthe carrier was positioned between the slide pieces. ( I think this wouldbea lot easier to draw then describe however I will continue as it is actuallyquite a simple system , it is merely my descripton that makes it seemcomplicated ) I then purchases a BBQ motor ($15) from the local store . This had 4 revs aminute and a .25" width square hole to take a square shaft. I made a square.25" shaft out of a spare piece of bamboo ( a splitting error and I hadplenty of it ) about one foot long and located this on the shelf so theshaft extended out above and past the slide. I then located pully's on thewall above and below the slide at the greatest possible distance from theend of the shaft. I drilled a hole in the top and bottom of the carrier andput small hooks through these holes ( actually a bit of bent wire ) . I thenran a heavy string " drive belt" around the shaft, through the pullys, andtied it to the hooks on the top and bottom of the carrier. By orientatingthe wrap of the string around the shaft in the right direction , and turningthe motor on , the carrier moves down the shaft in a vertical line at about4" per minute . It takes a little experimenting to get the holes in thecarrier in the right place and the pully tension right but once sorted outit works really well. Only problem appears to be a tendancy for the stringpully to work along the shaft a little but I have found stopping a couple oftimes on a shaft to reposition it is not a hassle . This may not be as good as a dipping tube , but is a lot simpler to buildand certainly produces very satisfactory results . redards Iank At 10:34 AM 18/09/98 -0400, you wrote:Hi all, Has anyone tried the latex glove method of applying polyurethanevarnishes?I'd like to do the tube thing, but I don't have "enough house" to do it.It's really a shame too 'cause there's no SWMBO to deal with (just alandlord, and he can be bought)!! Dennis Haftel Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz from maxs@geocities.co.jp Fri Sep 18 17:57:44 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA01430 for; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 07:57:38 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Why I Dip SalarFly@aol.com wrote: I usually put on 3 to 5 coats depending on how it looks.I also use quite a bit of thinner. Several thin coats lookbetter than a couple of thick coats. One thing I've found is that if the varnish is thinned, and thedrain rate is slow enough - about an inch a minute - I don'thave to pause at the guides. Darryl Sir D, I am quite interested in your method using gravity.It is also nice to return the fluid into the bottle or can for storage. Could you explain thin rate of poly for each dip?How often or how long the same fluid can be used?How long the same dip pipe can be used? After the poly is dried insidethe pipe,doesn't it casue any scum next time? Do you clean it up inside orchange the pipe? -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jp from gwr@seanet.com Fri Sep 18 18:06:26 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA05546 for; Fri, Subject: Bellinger Bevelers & more Hi guys, As of this morning, Golden Witch has secured the exclusive rights tomarket all of Al Bellinger's (Bellinger Reel Seats, Inc.) cane buildingtools, including his current line of hand & power feed Dickerson stylebevelers. In the near future (1999) Bellinger & Golden Witch will beoffering an expanded line to include quad planing forms, an intelligentlymodified Garrison style binder, and small hand tools. Also, we willintroduce accessories for the Dickerson style bevelers, including one thatwill allow these machines to expand their function to include roughing outstrips into straight 60* triangles. This will obviate the need for folks topurchase a separate rough-out beveler if they already own or arecommittedto purchasing a Bellinger.That said, we're still working with two machinists to re-introduce theWhitehead rough-out beveler at a reasonable price for those makers whodon'twish to invest thousands in a Bellinger beveler. A waiting list iscurrently being made for those interested in purchasing from the firstproduction run of Whitehead bevelers - all we need is your name andcontactinfo. There is no deposit required to be put on this waiting list as wehave not yet firmed up a price or scheduled a delivery date. The first runwill consist of a minimum of twenty bevelers, more if there is greaterinterest. So far six machines have been reserved.The Bellinger bevelers retail for $2995.00 (hand feed) and $4595.00(power feed). These prices do not include a crating fee (currently$125.00)and freight charges (averaging $150.00). Buyers of a Bellinger machinewillno longer be able to pick up their purchase at Bellinger's shop, but theymay pick them up at my shop and receive a short hands-on training sessionifthat is their desire. If you pick up the machine, the crating charge willnot apply, but there will still be a $150.00 freight charge. This is morethan made up for by having the opportunity to receive a training session.All purchasers will be offered a reasonable amount of telephone technicalservice through Golden Witch at no charge, though most previous buyershavefound the written instruction that accompanies each machine to besufficient. Furthermore, anyone seriously interested in purchasing aBellinger beveler may make an appointment to visit my shop to see apower-feed beveler demonstrated.Currently we have one hand feed beveler in stock and one power feedbeveler will be completed in the next few weeks. The next production runofthe Bellinger bevelers is scheduled for early 1999. A 10%deposit will secure a Bellinger beveler from the next run.Within the next thirty days more information on the bevelers will beposted on the Golden Witch web site. We are currently revising the entiresite and are not updating the existing site. Stay tuned for more info asGolden Witch Rods, soon to become Golden Witch Technologies, Inc., willbeoffering a growing line of professional rod making tools & componentsthatwill improve the work of novices and masters alike.Let me offer my personal thanks to everyone, clients andmanufacturers,who have helped to make our new firm a reality. My wife, Erica, and I lookforward to helping rod makers make better rods now and in the future. The Golden Age Is Now. Best regards, Russ GoodingGolden Witchgwr@seanet.comhttp://www.goldenwitch.com from maxs@geocities.co.jp Fri Sep 18 18:37:05 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA18172 for; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 08:37:00 +0900 (JST) Subject: Rough Planing Hello list, Is there anyone who experienced rough planing using electric motorplane?My rough thought to ease rough planing reached to the possibility ofusing motor plane. Hypothesis is;If we can hold the split cane tightly with the angle of 60 degrees onthe rough planing form,it may be possible to plane the upper surface flat using motor plane. Since it's rough,we can give some smoothing runs using hand plane to finalize it.It would make things easier?Appreciate for experience report.Thanks, -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jp from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Sep 18 19:29:02 1998 Subject: Re: Why I Dip In a message dated 9/18/98 4:03:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time,maxs@geocities.co.jp writes: Could you explain thin rate of poly for each dip? This depends on the thickness of the varnish you start off with.I'm afraid you will have to experiment on your own. I put inabout 20 per cent thinner by volume. How often or how long the same fluid can be used? Since I thin as I go along and add varnish as it is needed, It'shard to say. I haven't had to throw away any varnish for anyreason. How long the same dip pipe can be used? After the poly is dried insidethe pipe,doesn't it casue any scum next time? Do you clean it up inside orchange the pipe? The pipe is just a piece of PVC pipe. If you have to throw it away itonly costs a couple dollars to replace.I just let the varnish build up inside. Once it is dried it doesn't come off,just like the multiple coats on your rod. I do have to redrill the drain hole before each run. Darryl from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Sep 18 19:53:15 1998 Subject: Re: reel seat inserts, oxidized nickel silver hardware, and rodfinishes Jerry,As far as turning your own fillers, it can be done,but they should be done with some precision. You will have to keep your dimensions within .005in. turning and routing.If you are too far off, the reel feet won't fit the reel seat. Too tight or too loose. Wayne has a good set up for routing the fillers in his book. I'd go with that. As far as the coating for the oxidized hardware, I use a product called Sta-Brite. It is sold by Wood Workers catalogs,Constantens and some hardware stores. It is made very hard. I've tried them all and this stuff is the best for the hardware. Hope this helps. Dave LeClair from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Sep 18 20:39:33 1998 Subject: Re: Re: World's Best Finish Darryl,I used tung oil on my favorite rod 6 years ago- the action seems to haveslowed considerably. Now,mind you I tend to abuse my rods but in thiscase Ibelieve that moisture has reentered the cane through the tung oil finish-I'mgoing to strip off the guides and put it in the oven at 100 deg. F. and thendip it. I'll let you know how it turns out when I can get to it. I've now gota waiting list for my rods.Regards,Hank. from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Fri Sep 18 21:00:22 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2b6);Fri, 18Sep 1998 22:08:44 -0400 Subject: Salmon Reel... I was looking through some of the list for a salmon reel. Any ideas on Hardy model numbers and such?Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from gwr@seanet.com Fri Sep 18 22:14:48 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA17480 for; Fri, Subject: Re: Salmon Reel... boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01BDE341.AB59A440" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BDE341.AB59A440 Jon, I'm not sure quite what you're after, recent or classic, but you shouldcontact a Hardy dealer. When I was at the FFF National Conclave the Hardyboys (sorry, couldn't resist) had a finely done reprint of a Hardy text (orcompilation of catalogs) that dealt with some of their older tackle. I justquickly flipped through it, but I think it would provide info on theirreels. Seems to me it was running at or above $50.00. If it was less, I'dhave picked up a copy. Sorry I don't have a better description of the book,but I spent most of my time checking out their rods. Contact: Hardy (USA) Inc. at PO Box 3987; Evergreen, CO 80437. Good luck in your search. Russ -----Original Message----- Subject: Salmon Reel... I was looking through some of the list for a salmon reel. Any ideason Hardy model numbers and such?Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277- 4510http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BDE341.AB59A440 name="Golden Witch Rods.vcf" filename="Golden Witch Rods.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDN:Gooding;John;R.FN:Golden Witch RodsORG:Golden Witch RodsTITLE:Rod MakerTEL;WORK;VOICE:(425) 787- 6599TEL;PAGER;VOICE:noneTEL;WORK;FAX:noneADR;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A;Lynnwood;WA;98037;USALABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A=3D0D=3D0ALynnwood, WA =98037=3D0D=3D0AUSAURL:http://www.goldenwitch.comEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:gwr@seanet.comEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BDE341.AB59A440-- from jczimny@dol.net Fri Sep 18 22:17:15 1998 Subject: Re: World's Best Finish Hank,You shouldn't have to strip the rod. If the moisture got in, then, it can getout. Put it in a low humidity atmosphere at 85 degrees F for a couple ofmonthsand it should be down to 6 or 7% ambient moisture content. That's the bestyoucan expect in the East Coast for any coating that you use in the long run.Noneare moisture proof and all rods must assume some sort of equilibriumover time.If you wax the rod with a hard wax after you remove it from the cabinet,you'llget as much moisture proofing as any other coating will give you.John FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: Darryl,I used tung oil on my favorite rod 6 years ago- the action seems tohaveslowed considerably. Now,mind you I tend to abuse my rods but in thiscase Ibelieve that moisture has reentered the cane through the tung oil finish-I'mgoing to strip off the guides and put it in the oven at 100 deg. F. and thendip it. I'll let you know how it turns out when I can get to it. I've now gota waiting list for my rods.Regards,Hank. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Sep 18 22:18:05 1998 Sat, 19 Sep 1998 11:16:47 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Driggs taper On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, John H. Phillips III wrote: At 06:37 PM 9/17/98 -0700, you wrote:Chris saysthis is a 4wt rod, and I am looking forward to getting it done and tryingit out. Thanks Chris, Tony and Wayne! Rob The Paul Young Company advertises the Driggs as a 5 wt. for under 40 ftcasts, and a 4 wt. for reaching longer distances. Is it anyone's experience that this taper is really a 4wt. all around? The couple I've made and I'm now on another have all seemed to me to suggest that is correct, however this is a forgiving rod and I like useing a #3wf best of all in the small streams I like to fish.The first Driggs I made wound up going to a fellow who put his 3wf on on his first go with it shot over 40' with only 2 false casts. He has a very nice casting style but it shows what the taper can do. Definatley a Penfolds class of taper. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Sep 18 22:22:13 1998 Subject: Re: World's Best Finish In a message dated 9/18/98 7:27:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time,FISHWOOL@aol.comwrites: I used tung oil on my favorite rod 6 years ago- the action seems tohaveslowed considerably. Now,mind you I tend to abuse my rods but in thiscaseIbelieve that moisture has reentered the cane through the tung oil finish Remember someone posted about a year ago the list of finishes andhow much they kept atmospheric moisture out? The only thing that stopped all moisture from reentering was microcrystalline wax. Carnuba is a microcrystalline wax. Maybe it doesn't matter what the finish is aslong as you wax it with carnuba. Darryl from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Sep 18 22:30:58 1998 Sat, 19 Sep 1998 11:30:37 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: reel seat inserts, oxidized nickel silver hardware, and rodfinishes On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, Jerry Snider wrote: 2) I would now also like to try to build my own reel seat inserts. I dohave a wood lathe. I have seen very little on this particular topic in thearchives. Any suggestions? Can it be done? What tools are needed(router,type of router blade, jig, mandrel)? What are the tool sources? Should Isimply forget it? Jerry,I just added some pics to my page and one of the pics is of a reel seat of the type I'm making. The wood filler is made by turning a little more than you need in len for two fillers so you have enough to work with when it comes time to rout the groove.Cut the timber blank square to about the outside dia of the finished turning so you wind up with square ends either side of the finishedturning.I've permanately mounted my router on my workbench and set up simpleMDF jigs so I can just feed the turned wood through them past the router.I'd recomend leaving the ends square as these prevent the wood spining while to rout and all you need to do if feed and keep your digits clear. I have a pic of my machinery work area but decided not to put it on the page as it dosn't realy show anything in detail. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Sep 18 22:32:43 1998 Sat, 19 Sep 1998 11:32:23 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Cane Jon, Have you received those ferrules and pattern yet? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Fri Sep 18 22:56:35 1998 Subject: Re: Salmon Reel... Hi Jon, What Line weight? Disc or Pawl? Right or Left? Antique or Currentmodel? Regards, Bob Bob PerryFly Supplies PS. You want fries with that? On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, Jon Lintvet wrote: I was looking through some of the list for a salmon reel. Any ideas on Hardy model numbers and such?Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from ragnarig@integrityol.com Fri Sep 18 23:10:37 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A0F65701DC; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 21:20:06 PDT Subject: Re: Rough Planing boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0020_01BDE348.5943ADC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BDE348.5943ADC0 Hello list, Is there anyone who experienced rough planing using electric motorplane?My rough thought to ease rough planing reached to the possibility of Hypothesis is;If we can hold the split cane tightly with the angle of 60 degrees onthe rough planing form, Since it's rough,we can give some smoothing runs using hand plane to finalize it.It would make things easier?Appreciate for experience report. Dear MaxThere is a very interesting contraption along these lines in Bestof the =Planing Form which is a book I'd stongly recommend if you don't already =have it. This machine is like a router table with a guide along which you push a =fixture which has a 60-degree notch for holding the bamboo strip. It =can be made mostly of plywood and you would only have to spend (in the =US) at most about $50 on assorted parts, unless they could be found more=cheaply in a salvage yard. This is not including the router and the = Bob Milward, in Vancouver B. C. designed it and I'm working on something =like it for myself, since my arm was injured in military service (kept =throwing it into the air volunteering) and hand planing is daily =becoming less enjoyable ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BDE348.5943ADC0 = DearMax There is a very = contraption along these lines in Best of Planing Form which is a book I'd stongly recommend if= don't already have it. This machine is like a= with a guide along which you push a fixture which has a 60-degree notch = = only have to spend (in the US) at most about $50 on assorted parts, = Bob Milward, inVancouver = designed it and I'm working on something like it for myself, since my = injured in military service (kept throwing it into the air volunteering) = hand planing is daily becoming less enjoyable ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BDE348.5943ADC0-- from flyrod6@juno.com Sat Sep 19 01:11:47 1998 02:11:37 EDT Subject: Re: Applying polyurethane Dennis, I have done the dip tank several ways. I travel some and I have to comeup with inventive ways to get the job done. First time I hung it in thestairwell, but wife was not impressed. next time I taped the tank to achair and just hung a fishing line over a ceiling light and used no dustcontainer. This is not the preferred method, but works in a pinch andcan be done almost anywhere. After dipping you can transfer to your dustfree cabinet etc. If you are using varnish you can polish out anyimperfections. Just my $.02. Mark Hallowell On Fri, 18 Sep 1998 10:34:47 -0400 "Haftel, Dennis Jay" writes:Hi all, Has anyone tried the latex glove method of applying polyurethane varnishes?I'd like to do the tube thing, but I don't have "enough house" to do it.It's really a shame too 'cause there's no SWMBO to deal with (just alandlord, and he can be bought)!! Dennis Haftel _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from mrbamboo@quik.com Sat Sep 19 02:18:00 1998 Subject: Re: Growing your own cane boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01BDE363.266D32C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BDE363.266D32C0 I have just finished the article on growing your own cane =(http://www.rodbuilding.com), and have listed one supplier in Alabama. =There is still going to be a picture added to the page, but if you would =please take a look, and send me your comments or suggestions. Paul Whitely ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BDE363.266D32C0 I have just finished the article on=growing your own cane (http://www.rodbuilding.com),and = to the page, but if you would please take a look, and send me your = suggestions. Paul =Whitely ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BDE363.266D32C0-- from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Sep 19 08:04:21 1998 In a message dated 9/18/98 11:42:14 PM, you wrote: Max - Lon Blauvelt of Maine, who is not on this list uses this method. Itseems to work fine both for rough planing, and even for getting very closetofinish tapers. Lon uses wooden forms for rough planing, and does tend toeventually plane the end of the form if he forgets to lift the plane at theend of the stroke. It seems like a very fast method. I believe he uses nylontape on the sides of the plane sole to keep from planing the form most ofthetime. Don't try it on steel forms until you are skilled in the method. from emiller257@dataflo.net Sat Sep 19 09:49:27 1998 (8.8.5/8.7.3)with SMTP id JAA09241 for ; Sat, 19 Sep1998 09:54:26 Subject: Re: World's Best Finish SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 9/18/98 7:27:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time,FISHWOOL@aol.comwrites: I used tung oil on my favorite rod 6 years ago- the action seems tohaveslowed considerably. Now,mind you I tend to abuse my rods but in thiscaseIbelieve that moisture has reentered the cane through the tung oilfinish Remember someone posted about a year ago the list of finishes andhow much they kept atmospheric moisture out? The only thing thatstopped all moisture from reentering was microcrystalline wax. Carnubais a microcrystalline wax. Maybe it doesn't matter what the finish is aslong as you wax it with carnuba. DarrylDarryl, you mentioned in some of your posts about finish that youuse a hole in the bottom of your dip tube to allow the finish to drain and plug the hole with a cork to fill the tube. How do you control the rate that the finish drips from the tube? I'm planning on using the same setup and would appreciate any suggestions. Also what size tube you use and how much finish it takes to fill it would be helpful. Finally, any comments concerning gloss vs. satin finish. My personal preference is satin and the rods I'm making are for personal use. Thanks for your help.Ed Miller from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Sep 19 11:36:37 1998 Subject: Re: World's Best Finish In a message dated 9/19/98 7:50:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time,emiller257@dataflo.net writes: How do you control the rate that the finish drips from the tube? Drill a small hole and measure the drain rate.If it's too fast, plug it an drill a smaller hole.I've found the slower the better. Once you havea satisfactory drain rate there isn't any reasonto change it. Darryl Darryl from fr.keulen@wxs.nl Sat Sep 19 14:21:56 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA9E3 +0200 Subject: Re: Applying polyurethane Dennis , One of the advantages of being on the list is that you get expert adviceonthe tricky issues of rodbuilding that you won't find in books so easily. Ihaven't been an active contributor since joining the list, but I do owe oneofthe members a lot of gratitude for mentioning the - in my humble opinion- simplest and best working method to get some beautifully even layers ofvarnish on your masterpieces. I tried the latex way too. I found it in the Best of the Planing Form (whichIcan also recommend). It works but it can be messy, certainly in the handsof aperson as clumsy as I am. It's also a bit of a hassle to get the coat ofvarnishat the right thickness. I didn't use a funnel or a jar. I used the top of aplastic coke bottle which I had sawn off. The latex glove fitted over thepartthat was used to screw on the top. It's not as easy though as the methodthatwas only desbribed some months ago on the list. (Was it Daryl who thoughtitup?) I feel free to pass it on among these fellow brethren in the trade.Themethod is really brilliant. It only requires a piece of pvc pipe. I took abouthalf or one third a rod length, depending on the rod you want to dip. Theotherparts consist of a fitting pvc end cap and a small bleeder valve of the typeused to ventilate central heating radiators. (I hope you know what I mean.)Thevalve, which is available from all central heating installers in Holland,onlycost me about 10 Dutch guilders,. which is around $5. I drilled a hole in thepvc cap and glued the valve in to the hole in the cap. The cap and fittedvalveare pushed onto one end of the pipe. Make sure you get a tight fit by usingsomesort of tape.I then clamped the pipe into a workmate, filled it to the brim with about3/4litre of varnish. I dipped the rod pieces into the varnish in the pipes andattached them to a piece of string to the ceiling. They shouldn't touch thesides of the pipe. Under the pipe I placed the empty varnish can, and I opened the valve sothatthe varnish trickled into the can.I then left it standing there for a day. Theresult has made me a very happy man indeed. Don't forget to take off theend capand clean it thoroughly with turps after usage or the valve clogs up. Rens Oosthoek, Holland from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Sep 19 15:06:19 1998 Subject: Re: Applying polyurethane In a message dated 9/19/98 12:24:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time,fr.keulen@wxs.nlwrites: (Was it Daryl who thought it up?) I'm not sure, but it's in the archives in September of 1995. It reallydoesn'tmatter who thought of it first, as long as it works and rodmakers aregetting good results from it. Darryl from FlyTyr@southshore.com Sat Sep 19 19:08:58 1998 (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA21204 for ;Sat, 19 Sep1998 19:09:48 - 0500 Subject: The Bamboo Fly Rod Has anyone received their July, August and Sept. Oct. copies of thismagazine. I can't seem to get an answer to my messages left on theanswering machine nor "E" mail.Advise me on or off list.Thanks,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from Turbotrk@aol.com Sat Sep 19 19:32:41 1998 Subject: Re: Growing your own cane I watched the movie Sling Blade some time ago. I was not as interested inrodbuilding then as I am now. In one scene where Karl visits the grave of hisbrother, he squats next to a huge grove of what I believe to be tonkin cane.The cane is at least 3" in diameter and very tall. I have tried to no availto find out where the film was made. Some of the internet sites sayArkansasbut I believe it was made in Mississippi. If anyone can find out,. I amwilling to go look for this grove in hopes of finding a US local supply ofcane. let me knowsoon to be a rod builderstuart s. miller from bobbo@buffnet.net Sat Sep 19 19:42:19 1998 bybuffnet4.buffnet.net (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA27995 for buffnet9.buffnet.net viasmap (V2.0) Subject: Re: The Bamboo Fly Rod Tony,They had told me Labor Day. still no word here either.Bob At 07:12 PM 9/19/98 -0500, you wrote:Has anyone received their July, August and Sept. Oct. copies of thismagazine. I can't seem to get an answer to my messages left on theanswering machine nor "E" mail.Advise me on or off list.Thanks,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com -----------------------------Bob Maulucci218 Wallace Ave.Buffalo, New York 14216716-836-8297 http://www.buffnet.net/~bobbo/welcome.htm "Establish a better reputation for honesty in your home community; thenyou wonthave to bring in dead fish to prove that your not a liar." - Kenneth Reid from bobbo@buffnet.net Sat Sep 19 19:45:34 1998 bybuffnet4.buffnet.net (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA28100 for buffnet9.buffnet.net viasmap (V2.0) Subject: Re: Growing your own cane Wow. Good luck, but I have doubts to how good it might be after all thethingsmentioned lately on the list. It seems that the climate is just not right rod quality Tonkin anywhere but in China.But I would like to here about the search, Yep, Uh Huh, I reckon.Best,Bob, not Billy Bob. At 08:31 PM 9/19/98 EDT, you wrote:I watched the movie Sling Blade some time ago. I was not as interestedin rodbuilding then as I am now. In one scene where Karl visits the grave of hisbrother, he squats next to a huge grove of what I believe to be tonkincane.The cane is at least 3" in diameter and very tall. I have tried to no availto find out where the film was made. Some of the internet sites sayArkansasbut I believe it was made in Mississippi. If anyone can find out,. I amwilling to go look for this grove in hopes of finding a US local supply ofcane. let me knowsoon to be a rod builderstuart s. miller from ljrp@penn.com Sat Sep 19 19:53:57 1998 Subject: Re: Growing your own cane I have always heard that the wind in the tonkin province in China waswhat gavethe original "tea sticks" their strength and unique qualities . Anyone elseknowof this? bob maulucci wrote: Wow. Good luck, but I have doubts to how good it might be after all thethingsmentioned lately on the list. It seems that the climate is just not right rod quality Tonkin anywhere but in China.But I would like to here about the search, Yep, Uh Huh, I reckon.Best,Bob, not Billy Bob. At 08:31 PM 9/19/98 EDT, you wrote:I watched the movie Sling Blade some time ago. I was not as interestedin rodbuilding then as I am now. In one scene where Karl visits the grave ofhisbrother, he squats next to a huge grove of what I believe to be tonkincane.The cane is at least 3" in diameter and very tall. I have tried to noavailto find out where the film was made. Some of the internet sites sayArkansasbut I believe it was made in Mississippi. If anyone can find out,. I amwilling to go look for this grove in hopes of finding a US local supply ofcane. let me knowsoon to be a rod builderstuart s. miller from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Sep 19 20:38:51 1998 Subject: Re: Growing your own cane I'm not one to scoff at people trying different things, and I reallythink it would be great if someone found an alternate sourceof bamboo, but let's put it in perspective. For me a minimumorder from Demarest costs about $40 a culm. Depending onthe type of rod I can get at least 3 rods out of a culm sometimes4 rods. That's $10 to $15 worth of cane in each rod. Unless Ican grow a superior grade of bamboo - which I doubt I can withoutyears of growing experience - is it worth it to grow my own? Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Sep 19 20:41:12 1998 Subject: Re: The Bamboo Fly Rod In a message dated 9/19/98 5:22:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time,FlyTyr@southshore.com writes: Has anyone received their July, August and Sept. Oct. copies of thismagazine. I can't seem to get an answer to my messages left on theanswering machine nor "E" mail. They are being printed now and will be shipped - barring any unforseenglitches - next week. Darryl from FlyTyr@southshore.com Sat Sep 19 21:04:47 1998 natco.southshore.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA22880 for; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:05:37 -0500 Subject: Re: The Bamboo Fly Rod Bob,Thanks for the reply.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com bob maulucci wrote: Tony,They had told me Labor Day. still no word here either.Bob At 07:12 PM 9/19/98 -0500, you wrote:Has anyone received their July, August and Sept. Oct. copies of thismagazine. I can't seem to get an answer to my messages left on theanswering machine nor "E" mail.Advise me on or off list.Thanks,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com -----------------------------Bob Maulucci218 Wallace Ave.Buffalo, New York 14216716-836-8297 http://www.buffnet.net/~bobbo/welcome.htm "Establish a better reputation for honesty in your home community; thenyou wonthave to bring in dead fish to prove that your not a liar." - Kenneth Reid from FlyTyr@southshore.com Sat Sep 19 21:06:13 1998 natco.southshore.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA22902 for; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:07:04 -0500 Subject: Re: The Bamboo Fly Rod Thanks again for the reply, will be looking for it. SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 9/19/98 5:22:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time,FlyTyr@southshore.com writes: Has anyone received their July, August and Sept. Oct. copies of thismagazine. I can't seem to get an answer to my messages left on theanswering machine nor "E" mail. They are being printed now and will be shipped - barring any unforseenglitches - next week. Darryl from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sun Sep 20 00:46:28 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: The Bamboo Fly Rod No on both issues... George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: The Bamboo Fly Rod Has anyone received their July, August and Sept. Oct. copies of thismagazine. I can't seem to get an answer to my messages left on theanswering machine nor "E" mail.Advise me on or off list.Thanks,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from RVenneri@aol.com Sun Sep 20 07:44:48 1998 Subject: Planing form material Could any one give me a source for stress relieved cold rolled steel formaking planing forms. I am just starting to gather my materials formakingbamboo rods. Also does any one have any plans for a mill that uses arouter.I saw one at the catskill gathering and it was made by Al Medved it wassimpleand worked great but I was so overwhelmed (this was my first gathering) the info available there that I did not really get a picture or make adrawingof this wonderful machine. I would like to thank all the gentlemen whopurchased seats from me at the gathering and for all the greatcompliments Ireceived on my reel seats. Hope to hear from all of you in the future. Best Regards,Bob V Robert Venneri's Custom Components21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882 from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sun Sep 20 09:21:17 1998 0500 Subject: Re: Growing your own cane I can't tell you where SlingBlade was filmed, but I'm bringing a fewculms ofsome wild, local cane to the Arkansas gathering. It's a nuisance aroundhere(Northeast Louisiana). It grows to 35-45 feettall, and as much as 4 inches in diameter. I made a rod case out of somecut lastwinter, and it is hard to distinguish it from the cane in my rods. I'm notsayingit's Tonkin (arundaria amibilis) justthat it sure looks like it to my uneducated eyes. Perhaps Harold and EileenDemarest will be able to help me identify it.History is interesting. When he was President, Teddy Roosevelt came toFranklin Parish (county) to hunt bear. He spent two weeks here fightinghis waythrough the local cane fields. There was verylittle land cleared for agriculture at the time. Today, over 95% of our landhasbeen cleared for cotton, corn, and soybean production. The local canewhich oncecovered every inch of ground, is only foundalong the swamps and bayous. But where it survives, it thrives. Wouldn'tit befun if it was Tonkin?If it is Tonkin, which I doubt, I can get all of it I'll ever need. I'vetried to find a local plant taxonomist (is that the right term?) who can it, with no luck. When I learn more, I'll letyou know.Harry Boyd bob maulucci wrote: Wow. Good luck, but I have doubts to how good it might be after all thethingsmentioned lately on the list. It seems that the climate is just not right rod quality Tonkin anywhere but in China.But I would like to here about the search, Yep, Uh Huh, I reckon.Best,Bob, not Billy Bob. At 08:31 PM 9/19/98 EDT, you wrote:I watched the movie Sling Blade some time ago. I was not as interestedin rodbuilding then as I am now. In one scene where Karl visits the grave ofhisbrother, he squats next to a huge grove of what I believe to be tonkincane.The cane is at least 3" in diameter and very tall. I have tried to noavailto find out where the film was made. Some of the internet sites sayArkansasbut I believe it was made in Mississippi. If anyone can find out,. I amwilling to go look for this grove in hopes of finding a US local supply ofcane. let me knowsoon to be a rod builderstuart s. miller from sats@gte.net Sun Sep 20 09:32:05 1998 Subject: Re: Cork handle cleaning problems I cleaned the cork handle on some of my old collectible bamboo rodsrecently. I used very soft soap and after a while the cork was clean.I then noticed the ridges around the cork handle with an interval ofabout 0.2". I was told this was because the softer cork material oneach side had dissapeared when washing.Jan,try one of the large "nail files" now used in salons. They're much like anemery board, but bigger. They come in a variety of grits -- some up tofourgrits on one board. I can speak from experience, DON'T try to polish the cork without usingsomething with a stiff backing. The soft material will quickly disappearandthe harder material will remain. I only made matters worse. Take your time, or you'll deform the cork. I've seen a real mess made of acorkhandle. I haven't done this yet, but I'm still learning. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Sep 20 10:24:12 1998 Subject: Re: Growing your own cane In a message dated 9/20/98 7:26:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time,fbcwin@fsbnet.comwrites: If it is Tonkin, which I doubt, I can get all of it I'll ever need.I've tried to find a local plant taxonomist (is that the right term?) who can you know. Try making a rod out of it. If it works, it works. I have always beenintriged by the descriptions of Moso bamboo. 80 feet tall and 8 to12 inches in diameter. Bamboo that big has to have some powerfiber. Darryl from harry37@epix.net Sun Sep 20 11:27:48 1998 MAA25174 Subject: Re: Salmon Reel... Jon Lintvet wrote: I was looking through some of the list for a salmon reel. Any ideason Hardy model numbers and such?Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277- 4510http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ Jon, You might want to contact Dick Spurr (The classic angler) or LenCodella- -I've gotten good smaller Hardys from Dick Spurr at reasonableprices and have seen many in Len's catalogs as well Greg from jourdoktorn@pilot.stjarntv.se Sun Sep 20 12:15:31 1998 with ESMTP id AAA4840 for ;Sun, 20 Sep 1998 19:10:54 +0200 Subject: Re: Cork handle cleaning problems Terry,thank you for answer and for your advice, I will try this out and let youknowtheresult.Best,Jan Nystrom Terry L. Kirkpatrick wrote: I cleaned the cork handle on some of my old collectible bamboo rodsrecently. I used very soft soap and after a while the cork was clean.I then noticed the ridges around the cork handle with an interval ofabout 0.2". I was told this was because the softer cork material oneach side had dissapeared when washing.Jan,try one of the large "nail files" now used in salons. They're much like anemery board, but bigger. They come in a variety of grits -- some up tofourgrits on one board. I can speak from experience, DON'T try to polish the cork without usingsomething with a stiff backing. The soft material will quicklydisappear andthe harder material will remain. I only made matters worse. Take your time, or you'll deform the cork. I've seen a real mess made ofa corkhandle. I haven't done this yet, but I'm still learning. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Sep 20 15:46:16 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Adress from Austria Do you have alex's e-mail address also from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sun Sep 20 16:44:56 1998 0500 Subject: Re: Growing your own cane One more thing: Looking at a few dozen culms of this cane brings up thequestion of quality. Most of it is scratched and bruised in various places. Tomake a rod from it, one would have to do quite alittle picking around those areas that are damaged. Also, there is quite abit ofboth interior and exterior mold. Since these were cut and delivered to methesame day that may say much mold comes from thelive plant, not just the boat.The nice cane we receive from those in the business has had some veryspecialcare. It has probably been well-guarded during its entire 8-10 year lifespan.It was then treated well after it was cut. Andproccessed correctly during the year or so of seasoning. Luis Marden'sbook talksabout the rather rigorous treatment the harvested bamboo receives.I never did anyting to this but keep it dry, and you wouldn't believe theamount of waxy substance I scraped away from the exterior before I got totheenamel, much less the power fibers. Even if we cangrow it here, there seems to be much more to it than just cutting a poleandputting it aside to let it dry.HarryHarry Boyd wrote: I can't tell you where SlingBlade was filmed, but I'm bringing a fewculmsof some wild, local cane to the Arkansas gathering. It's a nuisance aroundhere(Northeast Louisiana). It grows to 35-45 feettall, and as much as 4 inches in diameter. I made a rod case out of somecutlast winter, and it is hard to distinguish it from the cane in my rods. I'mnotsaying it's Tonkin (arundaria amibilis) justthat it sure looks like it to my uneducated eyes. Perhaps Harold andEileenDemarest will be able to help me identify it.History is interesting. When he was President, Teddy Roosevelt cametoFranklin Parish (county) to hunt bear. He spent two weeks here fightinghis waythrough the local cane fields. There was verylittle land cleared for agriculture at the time. Today, over 95% of ourlandhas been cleared for cotton, corn, and soybean production. The local canewhichonce covered every inch of ground, is only foundalong the swamps and bayous. But where it survives, it thrives. Wouldn't it befun if it was Tonkin?If it is Tonkin, which I doubt, I can get all of it I'll ever need. I'vetried to find a local plant taxonomist (is that the right term?) who can it, with no luck. When I learn more, I'll letyou know.Harry Boyd bob maulucci wrote: Wow. Good luck, but I have doubts to how good it might be after all thethingsmentioned lately on the list. It seems that the climate is just not right rod quality Tonkin anywhere but in China.But I would like to here about the search, Yep, Uh Huh, I reckon.Best,Bob, not Billy Bob. At 08:31 PM 9/19/98 EDT, you wrote:I watched the movie Sling Blade some time ago. I was not asinterested inrodbuilding then as I am now. In one scene where Karl visits the grave ofhisbrother, he squats next to a huge grove of what I believe to be tonkincane.The cane is at least 3" in diameter and very tall. I have tried to noavailto find out where the film was made. Some of the internet sites sayArkansasbut I believe it was made in Mississippi. If anyone can find out,. I amwilling to go look for this grove in hopes of finding a US local supplyofcane. let me knowsoon to be a rod builderstuart s. miller from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Sep 20 18:09:56 1998 Subject: Re: Adress from Austria I don't think Alex has an E-mail address. Dave LeClair from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Sep 20 19:08:52 1998 Subject: Re: Re: World's Best Finish Thanks, John-I'll give it a go.Regards,Hank. from jaquin@netsync.net Sun Sep 20 19:52:24 1998 quartz.netsync.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA20715 for; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 20:52:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Growing your own cane SalarFly@aol.com wrote: I'm not one to scoff at people trying different things, and I reallythink it would be great if someone found an alternate sourceof bamboo, but let's put it in perspective. For me a minimumorder from Demarest costs about $40 a culm. Depending onthe type of rod I can get at least 3 rods out of a culm sometimes4 rods. That's $10 to $15 worth of cane in each rod. Unless Ican grow a superior grade of bamboo - which I doubt I can withoutyears of growing experience - is it worth it to grow my own? DarrylDarryl I'm in full agreement with. The raw bamboo is one of the leastexpensive components in the rod, so buy the best quality you can findand use it. Direct your energy to other aspects of rod making. Andsave the band width too!! from jaquin@netsync.net Sun Sep 20 20:34:25 1998 quartz.netsync.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA25434 for; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 21:34:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Planing form material RVenneri@aol.com wrote: Could any one give me a source for stress relieved cold rolled steel formaking planing forms. I am just starting to gather my materials formakingbamboo rods. Also does any one have any plans for a mill that uses arouter.I saw one at the catskill gathering and it was made by Al Medved it wassimpleand worked great but I was so overwhelmed (this was my firstgathering) by allthe info available there that I did not really get a picture or make adrawingof this wonderful machine. I would like to thank all the gentlemen whopurchased seats from me at the gathering and for all the greatcompliments Ireceived on my reel seats. Hope to hear from all of you in the future. Best Regards,Bob V Robert Venneri's Custom Components21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882Hi Bob, It was a pleasure meeting you at the Catskill conclave. Al'sbeveler looked fairly easy to build consisting of a router mountedhorizonally, and two bamboo holding fixtures that pivot one one end, andhave a set screw & stop on the other. One fixture has a square groove, degree taper in it. The bamboo is held in place by spring loadedfingers. one before the cutter and one after. the fingers should be asclose the the cutter as possible without touching it. also the fixture has a spring on the set/stop end. this spring movesthe bamboo up to the cutter, while the set screw determines width of thestrip, and the stop assures reproducibility strip to strip. nothing toit heh =). One thought I had was to use a good quality router table with a good,strong fense on it and mount the fixtures on the fense. Use a pointerand scale and stops to control the cutting. Would probably get the sameresults, just the set-up is 90 degrees for Al's. I don't know if there is such a thing as stress-relieved cold rollsteel. Usually, you have to heat a object to a certain temperaturedepending on the material, let it soak at that temperature for a time,and cool it slowly to relief stress. Don't believe thats done with CRS. Comments on making your own planing forms: I just put twelve tofourteen hours this weekend doing all the drilling and tapping on my setof forms. Prior to that I had ten hours draw-filing the inside facingsurfaces on the forms. Looking at 10 to 12 hours draw filing theworking surfaces of the forms, plus three hours plus to file the groovesto finish the forms. Looks like about a forty man-hour project.Unless money is tight, or the wife threatens to cut you off if you spentanymore money on your hobbies, or you feel the artistic need to produceyour own forms, my advise is to buy them!!=) from maxs@geocities.co.jp Sun Sep 20 20:52:09 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA06314 for; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 10:52:03 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Rough Planing David wrote Dear Max There is a very interesting contraption along these lines in Best ofthe Planing Form which is a book I'd stongly recommend if you don'talready have it. Davy Riggs. Hello Davy, Thanks for you recommendation of the book. I am very interested inhaving the book but I have toorder the book to US. Could you let me know the price of the book if Iget it in U.S.?I will contact to some mail order.I am sure that the machine you referred to will increase productivity ofrough planing with reasonable cost. We can focused to more meaningfularea of crafting by it. Best Regards, Max-- Max (Masahiro) Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafter Email: maxs@geocities.co.jpURL: http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169/indexe.html from flyrod6@juno.com Sun Sep 20 20:58:18 1998 21:58:04 EDT Subject: Re: Planing form material Bob, Al Medvel has a beautiful router planer and some prints are floatingaround on how to build. I believe I have a rough draft of it. Let meknow if you need and I will see if I can dig up. Mark Hallowell On Sun, 20 Sep 1998 08:44:02 EDT RVenneri@aol.com writes:Could any one give me a source for stress relieved cold rolled steel formaking planing forms. I am just starting to gather my materials for makingbamboo rods. Also does any one have any plans for a mill that uses a router.I saw one at the catskill gathering and it was made by Al Medved it was simpleand worked great but I was so overwhelmed (this was my first gathering) by allthe info available there that I did not really get a picture or make a drawingof this wonderful machine. I would like to thank all the gentlemen whopurchased seats from me at the gathering and for all the great compliments Ireceived on my reel seats. Hope to hear from all of you in the future. Best Regards,Bob V Robert Venneri's Custom Components21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882 _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from maxs@geocities.co.jp Sun Sep 20 22:00:40 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA25807 for; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 12:00:34 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Mr. Smithwick, (are you Tom?) Thank you for information. That's what I am considering. I will try itat next planing. Best Regards, Max TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 9/18/98 11:42:14 PM, you wrote: plane?>> Max - Lon Blauvelt of Maine, who is not on this list uses this method. Itseems to work fine both for rough planing, and even for getting veryclose tofinish tapers. Lon uses wooden forms for rough planing, and does tend toeventually plane the end of the form if he forgets to lift the plane at theend of the stroke. It seems like a very fast method. I believe he usesnylontape on the sides of the plane sole to keep from planing the form most ofthetime. Don't try it on steel forms until you are skilled in the method. -- Max (Masahiro) Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafter Email: maxs@geocities.co.jpURL: http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169/indexe.html from KDLoup@aol.com Sun Sep 20 22:19:05 1998 Subject: Re: sharpening stone and depth gague My Enco dial indicator base fits properly, but it was purchased about 1 1/2years ago. Kurt Loup from sedwards@marin.reading.sgi.com Mon Sep 21 07:38:57 1998 bydeliverator.sgi.com (980309.SGI.8.8.8-aspam-6.2/980310.SGI-aspam) viaSMTP idFAA27278 1998 mail_ from (sedwards@marin.reading.sgi.com) (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1502/951211.SGI) 21 Sep1998 05:38:54 -0700 SGI does not authorize the use of its proprietarysystems or networks for unsolicited or bulk email from the Internet.) via SMTP id FAA02891 05:38:53 -0700 mail_ from (sedwards@marin.reading.sgi.com) 13:38:50+0100 Subject: Bamboo Anyone know a source of Bamboo in the UK ?. Simon Edwards from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon Sep 21 07:42:40 1998 Subject: identifying cane Most land-grant universities, and certainly most major state universitieshave a plant taxonomist on board. When calling, ask for the botany orbiology dept. then ask if they have a herbarium (museum of dried plantsforreference purposes). Then ask for the director of the herbarium. If theyare not a specialist in local grasses, they will be able to refer you toone. Also, you might try your agricultural extension agent. Most of themhave sources for identifying local "weeds."Jerry Snider from ljrp@penn.com Mon Sep 21 08:13:08 1998 Subject: Re: Planing form material Could you put this on the web (pics for all to see??) Mark A. Hallowell, Sr. wrote: Bob, Al Medvel has a beautiful router planer and some prints are floatingaround on how to build. I believe I have a rough draft of it. Let meknow if you need and I will see if I can dig up. Mark Hallowell On Sun, 20 Sep 1998 08:44:02 EDT RVenneri@aol.com writes:Could any one give me a source for stress relieved cold rolled steelformaking planing forms. I am just starting to gather my materials formakingbamboo rods. Also does any one have any plans for a mill that uses arouter.I saw one at the catskill gathering and it was made by Al Medved itwas simpleand worked great but I was so overwhelmed (this was my firstgathering) by allthe info available there that I did not really get a picture or make adrawingof this wonderful machine. I would like to thank all the gentlemenwhopurchased seats from me at the gathering and for all the greatcompliments Ireceived on my reel seats. Hope to hear from all of you in thefuture. Best Regards,Bob V Robert Venneri's Custom Components21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882 _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon Sep 21 08:54:05 1998 Subject: Tom Smithwick binder Just spend Saturday constructing a binder of Tom Smithwick's design. I amimpressed with the way it works. Having only built 8 rods to date, andwiththe first couple of rods simply bound by hand, once I began using theGarrison type binder I felt that I had little conrol over the process-- evenwith Chris Bogart's excellent article on "fine tuning." Guess once you getused to a particuar method, it is difficult to leave it. Anyway, Tom'sbinder still leaves a lot of control in the hands of the person doing thebinding, but makes it quicker to do the actual work. I know there was athread on this site from several of you who were going to rush out and tryTom's design right after he described it. I never did see any feedback,however. (I simply may have been out of town at that particular time, ifso, please forgive this intrusion). Any comments from those of you whotried it?Jerry Snider from ragnarig@integrityol.com Mon Sep 21 08:57:29 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id AD301FC017A; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 07:05:36 PDT Subject: Re: Rough Planing boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0049_01BDE52C.AF8E4420" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01BDE52C.AF8E4420 Dear Max The price of Best of the Planing Form is US$29.95 and it is available = from The Planing Form, P.O. Box 365, Hastings, MI 49058, USA Davy -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Rough Planing David wrote Dear Max There is a very interesting contraption along these lines in Best ofthe Planing Form which is a book I'd stongly recommend if you don'talready have it. Davy Riggs. Hello Davy, Thanks for you recommendation of the book. I am very interested inhaving the book but I have toorder the book to US. Could you let me know the price of the book if Iget it in U.S.?I will contact to some mail order.I am sure that the machine you referred to will increase productivity =ofrough planing with reasonable cost. We can focused to more meaningfularea of crafting by it. Best Regards, Max Max (Masahiro) Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafter Email: maxs@geocities.co.jpURL: http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169/indexe.html ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01BDE52C.AF8E4420 Dear Max The price of Best of the = Form is US$29.95 and it isavailable = The Planing Form, P.O. = Davy -----Original Message-----From:Max = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu=<rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= =http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169/indexe.html&g=t; ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01BDE52C.AF8E4420-- from rodsmiths@imt.net Mon Sep 21 10:11:50 1998 cu.imt.net(8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA06451 for ;Mon, 21 Sep Subject: Re: Bamboo Simon Edwards wrote: Anyone know a source of Bamboo in the UK ?. Simon Edwards Dear Simon, In the past bamboo was available from the following company in England. Jacobs Young & WestburyBridge Road, Haywards HeathWest Sussex RH16 1UATelephone: +44 (0)1444 412411 I haven't contacted them for many years about bamboo. I would beinterested to know if they are still suppliers. The last Bamboo Ipurchased from them was of excellent quality but it was around 1980. Tom Morgan from Anachemrpo@aol.com Mon Sep 21 10:14:36 1998 Subject: The return of "Dial Indicators for Dummies" Hello Rodmaker Listers, I am trying to measure the depth along the 60* groove cut in a surface of a4foot section of hardwood (two 30* sections screwed together, actually),myrough planing form. Obvioulsy, I also have to know how to do this to set myfinal planing forms someday. I have a Mitutoyo No. 2416F dial indicator with a 60* contact pointmounted ina 1" steel block . The sliding pin protrudes through the base of the block. I believe what I want to do is to take a reading with the block resting on aflat surface (the contact point flush with the bottom of the block andrestingon the flat surface), and/or make that my "zero" reading. Then I move thecontact point to the center of the groove, with the bottom of the blocksetting flat on the surface of the wood (straddling the groove). I then subtract the reading taken with the contact point was resting ontheflat surface from the one taken with the point in the groove to give me thedepth of the groove. Correct? Is there a more direct way to do this? Thank you for your patience and assistance, Russ Lavigne from andy@w-link.net Mon Sep 21 11:51:27 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo in Europe Anyone know a source of Bamboo in the UK ?. Simon Edwards There is a resource for buying quality cane in Europe. The company iscalled Centre Cane and they are in England. The gentleman's name isLeonardMoss and I will list his contact information below. He will have cane tosell around the end of October, this year. Contact Mr. Moss for moredetails, thank you. Leonard MossCentre Cane CompanyUnit 16 ShakeltonsRectory EstateOngar, EssexCM5 9AT Tel: 01277 363 285Cel: 0850 876 354Fax: 01277 364 985 Regards, Andy RoyerThe Bamboo Brokerbamboo@w-link.net(206) 935-4414 ph(206) 935-5515 fax from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon Sep 21 11:57:02 1998 via smap(4.1) Subject: RE: Over Varnish I have briefly toyed with the procedure of removing varnish while maintaining the original wraps. At this point it seems an exercise in futility: 1) Inevitably some of your wraps will be damaged, or come undoneduring the stripping. Matching aged wrap colors can be impossible. 2) The original wraps will be fuzzy, and tired looking with some impossible residue remaining, which discolors them, particularly with unpreserved wraps. 3) Any grit, bumps, frays etc. will effect your finish coat. This is especially maddening when you have many midwraps. 4) I can't imagine that the value of the rod might be greater with the original wraps when you've replaced the varnish and probably a few wrapsas well. Who really knows if the rod is original in the first place. If it's 50 years old, and had been redone by a competent person 30 years ago as original it would be hard to decipher. If you do develope a tube assembly with stripper and successfully remove varnish without replacing wraps please forward your methods to the list. I can't see where it's worth the effort since I prefer to prefinish the stripped blank and start with a perfectly clean blank before wrapping. Midwraps take a while, but are not too bad. My biggest project was about 280 total wraps? on an old Heddon #35. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon Sep 21 12:21:02 1998 via smap(4.1) Subject: RE: Braced Tiptops Dick, I've seen braced tiptops on the english rods. A Hardy and an Ogden Smith. The tip tops on these are agate lined with a short stem of about 1/4". The brace's attach from the outside of the ring and bend where the tube ends. The braces then extend down the tip of the blank for about 3/4" and are wrapped over with thread to the point of the bend. They look appropriate in this configuration I think. Standard braced tiptops like found on spin rods wouldn't look good in my opinion. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Mon Sep 21 12:45:45 1998 (may beforged)) Subject: The return of "Dial Indicators for Dummies" Russ,Correct.Dick Fuhrman from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Sep 21 14:23:41 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Growing your own cane Went to a sushi bar the other night and they served cold saki in abamboo jug that was just a 12-15" length of bamboo with a hole in thedam for the saki to come out. It was about 5-6" in diameter and had overa 1/4" of real good power fiber. I tried to find out where they got itbut nobody really spoke English. ----------From: SalarFly@aol.com[SMTP:SalarFly@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, September 20, 1998 8:23 AM Subject: Re: Growing your own cane In a message dated 9/20/98 7:26:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time,fbcwin@fsbnet.comwrites: If it is Tonkin, which I doubt, I can get all of it I'll everneed.I've tried to find a local plant taxonomist (is that the right term?) whocan you know. Try making a rod out of it. If it works, it works. I have always beenintriged by the descriptions of Moso bamboo. 80 feet tall and 8 to12 inches in diameter. Bamboo that big has to have some powerfiber. Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Sep 21 14:42:43 1998 Subject: Re: The return of "Dial Indicators for Dummies" In a message dated 9/21/98 8:20:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time,Anachemrpo@aol.com writes: I then subtract the reading taken with the contact point was resting ontheflat surface from the one taken with the point in the groove to give methedepth of the groove. Correct? Is there a more direct way to do this? Only if you are lucky the point resting on a flat surface is zero formeasuring the depth of your groove. In a lot of cases it isn't.Zeroing it on the point is measuring the distance down to thepoint. Measuring the depth of your groove measures the distance down with the tapered part of the point resting onthe angle cut of your groove, and the point resting on nothing.So, you are zeroing it on one thing, and measuring another. The best thing to do is to use a calibration block, which is ablock of steel with a small hole drilled in it. When you put thepoint in the hole the tapered part of the point is resting on theinside edge of the hole. If you know what that reading is supposed to be, then you rotate the outside bezel to thatreading. Your gauge will then be calibrated for measuringthe depth of your groove. Darryl from RVenneri@aol.com Mon Sep 21 14:46:33 1998 Subject: Re: Planing form material Mark, Someone told me Al Port may have a PIC or two. If so maybe Al could sendthemor post them for all to see. Thanks Bob VRobert Venneri's Custom Components21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882 from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Sep 21 15:10:34 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: The return of "Dial Indicators for Dummies" what size hole and what should your reading be ----------From: SalarFly@aol.com[SMTP:SalarFly@aol.com] Sent: Monday, September 21, 1998 12:41 PM Subject: Re: The return of "Dial Indicators for Dummies" In a message dated 9/21/98 8:20:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time,Anachemrpo@aol.com writes: I then subtract the reading taken with the contact point was restingon theflat surface from the one taken with the point in the groove togive me thedepth of the groove. Correct? Is there a more direct way to do this? Only if you are lucky the point resting on a flat surface is zero formeasuring the depth of your groove. In a lot of cases it isn't.Zeroing it on the point is measuring the distance down to thepoint. Measuring the depth of your groove measures the distance down with the tapered part of the point resting onthe angle cut of your groove, and the point resting on nothing.So, you are zeroing it on one thing, and measuring another. The best thing to do is to use a calibration block, which is ablock of steel with a small hole drilled in it. When you put thepoint in the hole the tapered part of the point is resting on theinside edge of the hole. If you know what that reading is supposed to be, then you rotate the outside bezel to thatreading. Your gauge will then be calibrated for measuringthe depth of your groove. Darryl from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Mon Sep 21 15:53:59 1998 ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 08:53:40 +1200 Subject: Re: Tom Smithwick binder Jerry, I built one at the time Tom mentioned it on the group using a couple of oldwheels instead of pulleys for the driving parts and used two thread spools,one on each side of the shaft,which gave an even pull from each side of therod shaft. I commented on the group at the time that it was easy to build and seemedtowork very well. As it was for my first rod I was surprised how easybindingwas compared to all the dire warnings which appear in the books. It mademethink that rodbuilding was not as difficult as it might appear But I havesince learnt otherwise. At least I have not had trouble with binding orstraightening (yet). I would certainly recommend this binder to someone starting out. Iank At 09:47 AM 21/09/98 -0400, you wrote:Just spend Saturday constructing a binder of Tom Smithwick's design. Iamimpressed with the way it works. Having only built 8 rods to date, andwith deleted Jerry Snider Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Sep 21 15:57:03 1998 Subject: Re: The return of "Dial Indicators for Dummies" In a message dated 9/21/98 1:16:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time,Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com writes: what size hole and what should your reading be It's in the archives, and somebody just posted where it is,but I didn't save it. Maybe he will repost it. Darryl from rclarke@eou.edu Mon Sep 21 16:05:46 1998 Subject: Re: Tom Smithwick binder Ian and Jerry, I have seen the picture of the binder, but am a littleunsure of its construction. Do you have some details, or maybe TomSmithwick? Thanks, Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu BTW, I have a picture of rod #1 if anyone is interested. It is a 6'3" #3wt(or really a 4wt). ----------From: Ian Kearney Subject: Re: Tom Smithwick binderDate: Monday, September 21, 1998 1:53 PM Jerry, I built one at the time Tom mentioned it on the group using a couple ofoldwheels instead of pulleys for the driving parts and used two threadspools ,one on each side of the shaft,which gave an even pull from each side oftherod shaft. I commented on the group at the time that it was easy to build andseemedtowork very well. As it was for my first rod I was surprised how easybindingwas compared to all the dire warnings which appear in the books. Itmademethink that rodbuilding was not as difficult as it might appear But I havesince learnt otherwise. At least I have not had trouble with binding orstraightening (yet). I would certainly recommend this binder to someone starting out. Iank At 09:47 AM 21/09/98 -0400, you wrote:Just spend Saturday constructing a binder of Tom Smithwick's design. Iamimpressed with the way it works. Having only built 8 rods to date, andwith deleted Jerry Snider Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz from saltwein@swbell.net Mon Sep 21 16:12:30 1998 gw2adm.rcsntx.swbell.net QAA07204 Subject: Drip tube (drain type) Just spent the better part of two days trying to build an effectivedrain style tube. I used 3/4 inch clear tubing and taped it to a pieceof walnut. I drilled a hole through the walnut and hung it on a screwto the side of my roll around box. A cradle was fashioned at the bottomof the drain rig to hold it plumb and true. I started the experiment Saturday with a wine siphon valve. I steppeddown the 3/4" tube to 3/8' with pieces of hose. I thinned mypolyurethane at two parts poly to one part thinner. My hanging system was a small spring with the tip slid into the end ofit and taped so that the spring continued as if an extension of the rod.A very small key ring was inserted in the loop end of the spring and apiece of round brass stock that was handy became the insert limit. The wine makers valve was totally worthless. There was no way to finetune the flow. It was either hell bent for leather, or if you got adecent drip going it stopped in a few minutes. The next test was to drill small and then smaller holes until a decentflow rate was achieved. This hole tended to slow down before the drainwas through. I suspect this could be overcome with a little morethinning of the poly. The major problem that I had with the system (the one that has melooking at going through the basement floor for a dip rig) is that Icould not keep the rod section in question from touching the side of thetube. It was as though it was attracted to it. You can see from theprevious descriptions that I had good mobility of the section to placeit in the center of the tube for the drain. It stayed therer through thedrain, and then the bottom would swing to the side after the finishflowed past it. Very frustating! Comments and suggestions are welcome. I have not started jacking thefloor yet and all simpler solutions will be appreciated. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO P.S. I was knocked off of the list again. Is this a common occurence,every month or so, or is something wrong at my servers end? from rclarke@eou.edu Mon Sep 21 16:44:05 1998 Subject: Re: Drip tube (drain type) Steve, this may sound too simplistic, but for poly, I found a can of sparurethane in a spray can that gives a really nice finish. I hang it up,spray it and let it try (which happens rather quickly). I may go back tovarnish and thus a dip tube eventually, but for now am very happy with it. You might look for this stuff at your hardware store and test it on someextra cane you have to see if you like it. Easy process. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu I have been knocked off two or three times in the past-it happens :) ----------From: Steve Subject: Drip tube (drain type)Date: Monday, September 21, 1998 4:13 PM Just spent the better part of two days trying to build an effectivedrain style tube. I used 3/4 inch clear tubing and taped it to a pieceof walnut. I drilled a hole through the walnut and hung it on a screwto the side of my roll around box. A cradle was fashioned at the bottomof the drain rig to hold it plumb and true. I started the experiment Saturday with a wine siphon valve. I steppeddown the 3/4" tube to 3/8' with pieces of hose. I thinned mypolyurethane at two parts poly to one part thinner. My hanging system was a small spring with the tip slid into the end ofit and taped so that the spring continued as if an extension of the rod.A very small key ring was inserted in the loop end of the spring and apiece of round brass stock that was handy became the insert limit. The wine makers valve was totally worthless. There was no way to finetune the flow. It was either hell bent for leather, or if you got adecent drip going it stopped in a few minutes. The next test was to drill small and then smaller holes until a decentflow rate was achieved. This hole tended to slow down before the drainwas through. I suspect this could be overcome with a little morethinning of the poly. The major problem that I had with the system (the one that has melooking at going through the basement floor for a dip rig) is that Icould not keep the rod section in question from touching the side of thetube. It was as though it was attracted to it. You can see from theprevious descriptions that I had good mobility of the section to placeit in the center of the tube for the drain. It stayed therer through thedrain, and then the bottom would swing to the side after the finishflowed past it. Very frustating! Comments and suggestions are welcome. I have not started jacking thefloor yet and all simpler solutions will be appreciated. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO P.S. I was knocked off of the list again. Is this a common occurence,every month or so, or is something wrong at my servers end? from geraldb@pennwell.com Mon Sep 21 16:48:25 1998 (5.0.1460.8) Subject: RE: rodmaking QAA14243 John - Looked at your website. Nice job. If I'd like to purchase one of your usedVeritas jigs and a Miniature Brass and Rosewood Scraper Plane whatamountshould I make my check for, to whom and where should it be sent? Thanks. Gerald Buckley ----------From: Jon Lintvet Sent: Monday, June 22, 1998 4:28 AM Subject: Re: rodmaking Not to advertise, but I sell them and I beat both places in terms of pice. Scott, In regard to the Conover Scraper although I haven't seen thatexactbrand there is a mini brass & rosewood scraper out there that is verysimilar. I know The Japan Woodworker (1-800-537-7820) andGarrettWade(1-800-221-2942) carry them from $25 to $35. Think Japan has bestprice.Best Regards,Chris Wohlford Scott Wilson wrote: I'm new at this, and haven't made a rod yet; therefore, these are thefirst of what will likely be hundreds of questions. First, I have asetof Frank Armbruster's planing forms. I have heard of tuning themusingatriangle file epoxied to a piece of plexiglas. Where can I find thespecific instructions for doing so? Second, I now have two makers'preferred bevels for their plane blades 30Ÿ (Cattanach) and 45Ÿ(Howell). The latter would probably reduce tear-out with increasedeffort. Any recommendations? Third, is there and unwanted Conoverscraper anywhere? (I realize it's not necessary, but it's a finelookingpiece of equipment). I've never used the internet, so bear with me ifIscrewed up. Jon Lintvet8602 Wild Olive StreetPotomac, MD 20854(800) 836-7558(301) 340-0194 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon Sep 21 16:59:01 1998 via smap(4.1) Subject: RE: Drip tube (drain type) Steve, Sounds like you put a lot of time into your system. I can't help with the drain method, but if you have forced air heat in your home and your ducts are under the floor you can get the clearance you need by dropping your tube through one of these vents with the grate removed. I use my laundry room because it is a small room and I can control the environment against dust etc. By using the vent to lower my tube through I am able to dip two piece 8' rods. I might be able to do a two piece 8 1/2' but havn't had one to try yet. I prefer extracting the rod from a tube because I like to look the section over closely under light to be sure there are no bubbles, dust, grit, etc. to screw up the finish. I always felt that if the section dried in the tube you wouldn't be able to see a flaw until it was too late. Of course it takes time to do it this way as I stay in the room the whole time and reel the sections up at about 2" to 4" a minute depending on the finish I'm using, but I don't usurally run into any unforeseen problems. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from Anachemrpo@aol.com Mon Sep 21 17:38:10 1998 Subject: Re:return of Dial indicator for dummies That's in the Rodmakers archive...actually I think I found it closer to the13th or 14. That would make it under "Part 3" for May 1998. The hole is 1/8th, inch but there is a calculation that goes with it. I Ithought that I needed help with the simple dial indicator! :-) Fortunatelytheanswer for the 1/8" hole and the 60* point is given... The Original Dial Indicator Dummy, Russ Lavigne from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Sep 21 17:52:54 1998 Subject: Re: Drip tube (drain type) In a message dated 9/21/98 2:14:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time,saltwein@swbell.net writes: The major problem that I had with the system (the one that has melooking at going through the basement floor for a dip rig) is that Icould not keep the rod section in question from touching the side of thetube. I didn't want to get too verbose about the drip tube, but if youcheck in the Sept. 1995 archive you will see that I used a spring clamp to hold the sections. Touching the sides was exactly why I did that. And yes, you do have to use really thinned out varnish. I likethin coats anyway so the flow rate was never a problem.Temperature is a big factor also. The flow rate does slow down as the varnish drains, but thatis just pure physics and has to be expected. Doesn't hurtanything. Sorry about the lack of details before, but I expected mostguys on this list would work out most of them for themselves.If you have any other questions, just let me know. Darryl from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Sep 21 18:28:18 1998 Subject: Re: Tom Smithwick binder Jerry I have good digital pictures of Tom's binder in action at Roscoecomplete with a smile on Tom's face. Also have the pictures of Medved'sbeveler (I sent them to Art Port). Unfortunately trying to send them to thegroup will not work for two reasons: the listserver will reject largeattachmentsover 65K and it will eat a lot of bandwidth. As soon as Al sends me his updated plans I will put up another pageon my Web site for the Tools pictures. Chris On Mon, 21 Sep 1998 09:47:52 -0400, Jerry Snider wrote: Just spend Saturday constructing a binder of Tom Smithwick's design. Iamimpressed with the way it works. Having only built 8 rods to date, andwiththe first couple of rods simply bound by hand, once I began using theGarrison type binder I felt that I had little conrol over the process-- evenwith Chris Bogart's excellent article on "fine tuning." Guess once you getused to a particuar method, it is difficult to leave it. Anyway, Tom'sbinder still leaves a lot of control in the hands of the person doing thebinding, but makes it quicker to do the actual work. I know there was athread on this site from several of you who were going to rush out andtryTom's design right after he described it. I never did see any feedback,however. (I simply may have been out of town at that particular time, ifso, please forgive this intrusion). Any comments from those of you whotried it?Jerry Snider from bdcreek@grand-rapids.crosswinds.net Mon Sep 21 19:04:04 1998 (envelope- from bdcreek@grand-rapids.crosswinds.net) Subject: Photo site Just signed on with Crosswinds.net, so once again I have a new e-mail(its free and it's REAL POP3 e-mail, not web mail laced with tons ofannoying ads). Though I haven't used it yet, I also get free unlimitedspace for a web page. If Jerry is still looking for a new home forrodmakers or parts thereof, this could be an answer. It could also be agood place to post photos of tools, gatherings, rods, accessories, orwhatever, without over-taxing anyones personal web page. FWIW. Brian > from jaquin@netsync.net Mon Sep 21 20:19:55 1998 quartz.netsync.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA22671 for; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 21:19:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Planing form material Mark A. Hallowell, Sr. wrote: Bob, Al Medvel has a beautiful router planer and some prints are floatingaround on how to build. I believe I have a rough draft of it. Let meknow if you need and I will see if I can dig up. Mark Hallowell On Sun, 20 Sep 1998 08:44:02 EDT RVenneri@aol.com writes:Could any one give me a source for stress relieved cold rolled steelformaking planing forms. I am just starting to gather my materials formakingbamboo rods. Also does any one have any plans for a mill that uses arouter.I saw one at the catskill gathering and it was made by Al Medved itwas simpleand worked great but I was so overwhelmed (this was my firstgathering) by allthe info available there that I did not really get a picture or make adrawingof this wonderful machine. I would like to thank all the gentlemenwhopurchased seats from me at the gathering and for all the greatcompliments Ireceived on my reel seats. Hope to hear from all of you in thefuture. Best Regards,Bob V Robert Venneri's Custom Components21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882 _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866]Max If you send me a copy it would be greatly appreciated thanks, jerry from maxs@geocities.co.jp Mon Sep 21 21:30:43 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA06201 for; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:30:31 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Growing your own cane Hello, You may need an opinion of Japanese.Yes, we have several kinds of bamboo in our country. Our culture likemost Asian country is related with bamboo for a long time. Teaceremony, chopsticks, garden walls, laundry pipe, vase of flower, andfishing rod, etc. etc. Kyoto is typical bamboo place. But most kind of Japanese bamboos have less power fiber inside. Icompared the fibers between Tonkin and Japanese thick bamboo. It wasobvious. Tonkin has more fibers. This comparison must have been made part. It says that Tonkin Cane is the best bamboo all over the world asa result. This is the reason even Japanese is importing Tonkin Canes. Can youbelieve one piece of 12 ft cane cost about $100 in Japan? Most of thefly rod maker here purchase it. I am importing Tonkin Cane from Demarest spending freight charge. Itis well justified.You seems far more lucky than me. You can get it at lower cost. Among various bamboo here, it is said, not my experience, that "Moso"bamboo and "Hachiku"can be used for fly rod. In genral they have less length betwen nodes.Someone actually made a fly rod using Japanese bamboo. He saidJapanese bamboo flexes too much so it is only good for lighter lineweight. Growing bamboo needs to have a mountain or a wide area. I do not thinkyour garden, even if it is acres wide, is not appropriate. We cannotknow where new bamboo shoots will come up. Sometimes it might breakthefloor of your house. We have to berry concrete blocks to wall out thearea in order not for bamboo roots to go around outside of the area in along run. It will take time, several years, to have several bambooshoots really come up from one original root of bamboo. When you get tothe stage of having many bamboo shoots, they will not come out in aexpected interval of distance, they tend to come up from the samespot. You have to throw some shoots away as soon as it comes out. Suchmaintenance is needed. So you need a mountain for growing bamboo. Thenyou can leave the bamboo grows as they like. And pick up unnecesarybamboo shoots to have enough space for the selected bamboo shoots.. Does this help? Max-- Max (Masahiro) Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafter Email: maxs@geocities.co.jpURL: http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169/indexe.htmlCoffey, Patrick W wrote: Went to a sushi bar the other night and they served cold saki in abamboo jug that was just a 12-15" length of bamboo with a hole in thedam for the saki to come out. It was about 5-6" in diameter and had overa 1/4" of real good power fiber. I tried to find out where they got itbut nobody really spoke English. ----------From: SalarFly@aol.com[SMTP:SalarFly@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, September 20, 1998 8:23 AM Subject: Re: Growing your own cane In a message dated 9/20/98 7:26:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time,fbcwin@fsbnet.comwrites: If it is Tonkin, which I doubt, I can get all of it I'll everneed.I'vetried to find a local plant taxonomist (is that the right term?) whocan you know. Try making a rod out of it. If it works, it works. I have always beenintriged by the descriptions of Moso bamboo. 80 feet tall and 8 to12 inches in diameter. Bamboo that big has to have some powerfiber. Darryl from bobbo@buffnet.net Mon Sep 21 21:44:20 1998 bybuffnet4.buffnet.net (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA03793 for via smap(V2.0) Subject: RE: Growing your own cane I think the concept of cold saki is a new one for me too!Bob At 08:31 AM 9/20/98 -0700, you wrote:Went to a sushi bar the other night and they served cold saki in abamboo jug that was just a 12-15" length of bamboo with a hole in thedam for the saki to come out. It was about 5-6" in diameter and had overa 1/4" of real good power fiber. I tried to find out where they got itbut nobody really spoke English. ----------From: SalarFly@aol.com[SMTP:SalarFly@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, September 20, 1998 8:23 AM Subject: Re: Growing your own cane In a message dated 9/20/98 7:26:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time,fbcwin@fsbnet.comwrites: If it is Tonkin, which I doubt, I can get all of it I'll everneed.I've tried to find a local plant taxonomist (is that the right term?) whocan you know. Try making a rod out of it. If it works, it works. I have always beenintriged by the descriptions of Moso bamboo. 80 feet tall and 8 to12 inches in diameter. Bamboo that big has to have some powerfiber. Darryl -----------------------------Bob Maulucci218 Wallace Ave.Buffalo, New York 14216716-836-8297 http://www.buffnet.net/~bobbo/welcome.htm "Establish a better reputation for honesty in your home community; thenyou wonthave to bring in dead fish to prove that your not a liar." - Kenneth Reid from richjez@enteract.com Mon Sep 21 21:46:02 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Planing form material I have some digitized photos of Al's binder taken at Grayling. Contact meoffthe list if you want them. Rich Jezioro At 03:45 PM 9/21/98 -0400, you wrote:Mark, Someone told me Al Port may have a PIC or two. If so maybe Al couldsendthemor post them for all to see. Thanks Bob VRobert Venneri's Custom Components21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882 *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ /||/______/_||_________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > from FlyTyr@southshore.com Mon Sep 21 21:49:44 1998 natco.southshore.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA14753 for; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 21:50:52 -0500 Subject: Re: The return of "Dial Indicators for Dummies" I must be a little thick and might need some claerafing. I have usedmeasuring tools and know a little about how they work, I must not bereading whatis posted.If the point is flush with a flat surface and reads "zero" that meansthere is no measurement. When the 60 degree point of the indicator isplaced in the "V" groove I thought the reading that you get is the depthof the groove from the point. I was under the impression that the pointwas the apex of the 60 degree angle. Calibrating a dial indicator byusing a hole in a block is new to me. I am just confused. If I set theindicator with the point on a flat surface and set the bezel to "zero",then put it in the "V" groove and read .158 do I not have .158, wouldthat not be the measurement (depth) from the point to the flat of thetriangle. I hope I am making sense, If not hit the "D" key. I just wantto be sure I know what has to be done before I get started.Thanks,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 9/21/98 8:20:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time,Anachemrpo@aol.com writes: I then subtract the reading taken with the contact point was resting ontheflat surface from the one taken with the point in the groove to give methedepth of the groove. Correct? Is there a more direct way to do this? Only if you are lucky the point resting on a flat surface is zero formeasuring the depth of your groove. In a lot of cases it isn't.Zeroing it on the point is measuring the distance down to thepoint. Measuring the depth of your groove measures thedistance down with the tapered part of the point resting onthe angle cut of your groove, and the point resting on nothing.So, you are zeroing it on one thing, and measuring another. The best thing to do is to use a calibration block, which is ablock of steel with a small hole drilled in it. When you put thepoint in the hole the tapered part of the point is resting on theinside edge of the hole. If you know what that reading issupposed to be, then you rotate the outside bezel to thatreading. Your gauge will then be calibrated for measuringthe depth of your groove. Darryl from bobbo@buffnet.net Mon Sep 21 21:52:12 1998 bybuffnet4.buffnet.net (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA04334 for via smap(V2.0) Subject: Re: Drip tube (drain type) At 04:13 PM 9/21/98 -0700, you wrote:Maybe you could use a foam ring at the top to hold the rod steady down themiddleof the tube?Bob The major problem that I had with the system (the one that has melooking at going through the basement floor for a dip rig) is that Icould not keep the rod section in question from touching the side of thetube. It was as though it was attracted to it. You can see from theprevious descriptions that I had good mobility of the section to placeit in the center of the tube for the drain. It stayed therer through thedrain, and then the bottom would swing to the side after the finishflowed past it. Very frustating! Comments and suggestions are welcome. I have not started jacking thefloor yet and all simpler solutions will be appreciated. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO P.S. I was knocked off of the list again. Is this a common occurence,every month or so, or is something wrong at my servers end? from michael@wugate.wustl.edu Mon Sep 21 21:57:18 1998 Subject: Non-Commercialism Sorry to bring this up, and certainly not single out Jon, or Gerald (therehave been other recent, and more blatant examples) but Gerald's postprompts me to think that perhaps a reminder of the noncommercial natureofour list is in order. Gerald writes... John - Looked at your website. Nice job. If I'd like to purchase one of your usedVeritas jigs and a Miniature Brass and Rosewood Scraper Plane whatamountshould I make my check for, to whom and where should it be sent?Thanks. Gerald Buckley From: Jon LintvetSent: Monday, June 22, 1998 4:28 AM Subject: Re: rodmaking Not to advertise, but I sell them and I beat both places in terms of price. Again, not to single out Gerald, his reply could have very well been meantto go directly to Jon. However it bears mentioning that the RODMAKERSlistis not the place to conduct business, nor to advertise. We are fortunateto have as listmembers, suppliers of everything from tools, to cane, tocomponents, to completed rods, and their services are a valuable asset tous all. I urge everyone to use them...just not through the list. Andlikewise to the suppliers, if someone on the list is in need, and you canfulfill that need, I'm sure your services would be most appreciated...justnot through the list. Business of any type is best conducted via privateemail. Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy...who right now feels like RODMAKERS Listjerk forbringing this up but I feel this is something that is important to us all,and the well-being of the list. Thanks for listening... from rmoon@ida.net Mon Sep 21 22:04:29 1998 Subject: Re: Growing your own cane Max When I was curator of the FFF IFFC Museum in West Yellowstone. Iaccessioned a rod made by a Japonese rod maker. His rod making wasbased on his reading of Garrison, but facing the same problem many ofdid at that time, he had trouble finding Tonkin Cane. The rod hedonated was made of a Japonese Bamboo. He refused to identify it forme, but did say that he had had the material compared with Tonkin at theUniversity of Tokyo, and that in all respects it was superior toTonkin. The most unusual aspect of the material was the color. Insteadof yellow or tan like Tonkin this bamboo was almost white. It reallyhad the aspect of old ivory and the rod because of its color was one ofthe most beautiful I have ever seen. I have checked with a number ofpeople in Japan and nobody seems to know anything of the maker. Hissurname is Urano Ralph Moon from flyrod6@juno.com Mon Sep 21 22:35:13 1998 23:34:53 EDT Subject: Re: Planing form material Bob and Jerry, Will send oud in the next few days. MarkOn Mon, 21 Sep 1998 21:04:59 -0400 Jerry Quinn writes:Mark A. Hallowell, Sr. wrote:>> Bob, Al Medvel has a beautiful router planer and some prints are floatingaround on how to build. I believe I have a rough draft of it. Let meknow if you need and I will see if I can dig up. Mark Hallowell On Sun, 20 Sep 1998 08:44:02 EDT RVenneri@aol.com writes:Could any one give me a source for stress relieved cold rolled steelformaking planing forms. I am just starting to gather my materials formakingbamboo rods. Also does any one have any plans for a mill that uses arouter.I saw one at the catskill gathering and it was made by Al Medved itwas simpleand worked great but I was so overwhelmed (this was my firstgathering) by allthe info available there that I did not really get a picture or make adrawingof this wonderful machine. I would like to thank all the gentlemenwhopurchased seats from me at the gathering and for all the greatcompliments Ireceived on my reel seats. Hope to hear from all of you in thefuture. Best Regards,Bob V Robert Venneri's Custom Components21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882 _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866]Max If you send me a copy it would be greatly appreciated thanks, jerry _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from flyrod6@juno.com Mon Sep 21 22:35:14 1998 23:34:53 EDT Subject: Re: Planing form material Will try to send as an attachment so all can see. Remember it is a roughand the pictures help to put it in perspective. Mark On Mon, 21 Sep 1998 09:13:17 -0400 Dick Fogel writes:Could you put this on the web (pics for all to see??) Mark A. Hallowell, Sr. wrote: Bob, Al Medvel has a beautiful router planer and some prints are floatingaround on how to build. I believe I have a rough draft of it. Let meknow if you need and I will see if I can dig up. Mark Hallowell On Sun, 20 Sep 1998 08:44:02 EDT RVenneri@aol.com writes:Could any one give me a source for stress relieved cold rolled steelformaking planing forms. I am just starting to gather my materials formakingbamboo rods. Also does any one have any plans for a mill that uses arouter.I saw one at the catskill gathering and it was made by Al Medved itwas simpleand worked great but I was so overwhelmed (this was my firstgathering) by allthe info available there that I did not really get a picture or make adrawingof this wonderful machine. I would like to thank all the gentlemenwhopurchased seats from me at the gathering and for all the greatcompliments Ireceived on my reel seats. Hope to hear from all of you in thefuture. Best Regards,Bob V Robert Venneri's Custom Components21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882 _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Mon Sep 21 22:40:34 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Growing your own cane I guess you could build a nodeless rod if you REALLY like saki! George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Growing your own cane Went to a sushi bar the other night and they served cold saki in abamboo jug that was just a 12-15" length of bamboo with a hole in thedam for the saki to come out. It was about 5-6" in diameter and had overa 1/4" of real good power fiber. I tried to find out where they got itbut nobody really spoke English. ----------From: SalarFly@aol.com[SMTP:SalarFly@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, September 20, 1998 8:23 AM Subject: Re: Growing your own cane In a message dated 9/20/98 7:26:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time,fbcwin@fsbnet.comwrites: If it is Tonkin, which I doubt, I can get all of it I'll everneed.I've tried to find a local plant taxonomist (is that the right term?) whocan you know. Try making a rod out of it. If it works, it works. I have always beenintriged by the descriptions of Moso bamboo. 80 feet tall and 8 to12 inches in diameter. Bamboo that big has to have some powerfiber. Darryl from hokkaido_flyfisher@yahoo.com Mon Sep 21 22:48:59 1998 1998 20:49:56PDT Subject: Re: Growing your own cane Ralph, It is Christian "The Zen Apprentice" Thalacker ...Mr. Urano could be a very good amateur rod-maker.Looking at my list of professional rodmakers in Japan, he is not among those twenty or so listed.I will keep checking. Cheers, Christian ---Ralph W Moon wrote: Max When I was curator of the FFF IFFC Museum in West Yellowstone. I accessioned a rod made by a Japonese rod maker. His rod making was based on his reading of Garrison, but facing the same problem many ofdid at that time, he had trouble finding Tonkin Cane. The rod he donated was made of a Japonese Bamboo. He refused to identify it for me, but did say that he had had the material compared with Tonkin at the University of Tokyo, and that in all respects it was superior to Tonkin. The most unusual aspect of the material was the color. Instead of yellow or tan like Tonkin this bamboo was almost white. It really had the aspect of old ivory and the rod because of its color was one ofthe most beautiful I have ever seen. I have checked with a number of people in Japan and nobody seems to know anything of the maker. His surname is Urano Ralph Moon ==Mr. Christian THALACKER Otaru University of CommerceMatsugae 2-6- 30 Otaru International Center #253047-0022 Hokkaido JAPAN Midori 3-5-21 Otaru 047 JAPANTel: (81) (134) 22-2671 Tel: (81) (134) 27-5261Fax: (81) (134) 27-5264 http://members.tripod.com/~Nijimasu/0.html_________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Mon Sep 21 23:03:17 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Non-Commercialism Personally, I don't take offense when it occurs. I just assume that somepeople accidentally respond to the listserv rather than a particularmember.Perhaps a small section on the Rodmakers page devoted to how to respondto amember of the list would alleviate the problem (if others think there is aproblem). George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Non-Commercialism Sorry to bring this up, and certainly not single out Jon, or Gerald (therehave been other recent, and more blatant examples) but Gerald's postprompts me to think that perhaps a reminder of the noncommercial natureofour list is in order. Gerald writes... John - Looked at your website. Nice job. If I'd like to purchase one of your usedVeritas jigs and a Miniature Brass and Rosewood Scraper Plane whatamountshould I make my check for, to whom and where should it be sent?Thanks. Gerald Buckley From: Jon LintvetSent: Monday, June 22, 1998 4:28 AM Subject: Re: rodmaking Not to advertise, but I sell them and I beat both places in terms ofprice. Again, not to single out Gerald, his reply could have very well been meantto go directly to Jon. However it bears mentioning that the RODMAKERSlistis not the place to conduct business, nor to advertise. We are fortunateto have as listmembers, suppliers of everything from tools, to cane, tocomponents, to completed rods, and their services are a valuable asset tous all. I urge everyone to use them...just not through the list. Andlikewise to the suppliers, if someone on the list is in need, and you canfulfill that need, I'm sure your services would be most appreciated...justnot through the list. Business of any type is best conducted via privateemail. Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy...who right now feels like RODMAKERS Listjerk forbringing this up but I feel this is something that is important to us all,and the well-being of the list. Thanks for listening... from maxs@geocities.co.jp Tue Sep 22 01:15:29 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA23379 for; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 15:15:22 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Growing your own cane Ralph, Thank you for information.I called now the most old and famous Fly shop owner in Tokyo "Tsuruya"to ask about Mr. Urano and "White Bamboo".He has a little information about Mr. Urano, may be some shop owner inNagoya. As for Bamboo, there is no white bamboo in Japan he said. Probably, itmight be coated by some thing. Sometimes, well grown Japanese bamboomay have a good characteristics such as many fibers in it, but generallyreflection power is rather weaker than Tonkin, he also says. Japanese bamboo might be all right. I will try to search the white bamboo and post when I get some news. Itis mysterious. In future, I would try to make my rod from our bamboo, too. Thanks, Max Ralph W Moon wrote: Max When I was curator of the FFF IFFC Museum in West Yellowstone. Iaccessioned a rod made by a Japonese rod maker. His rod making wasbased on his reading of Garrison, but facing the same problem many ofdid at that time, he had trouble finding Tonkin Cane. The rod hedonated was made of a Japonese Bamboo. He refused to identify it forme, but did say that he had had the material compared with Tonkin at theUniversity of Tokyo, and that in all respects it was superior toTonkin. The most unusual aspect of the material was the color. Insteadof yellow or tan like Tonkin this bamboo was almost white. It reallyhad the aspect of old ivory and the rod because of its color was one ofthe most beautiful I have ever seen. I have checked with a number ofpeople in Japan and nobody seems to know anything of the maker. Hissurname is Urano Ralph Moon -- Max (Masahiro) Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafter Email: maxs@geocities.co.jpURL: http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169/indexe.html from cmj@post11.tele.dk Tue Sep 22 02:16:03 1998 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0200 Subject: Sv: Drip tube (drain type) CAA07517 *Steve wrote: I started the experiment Saturday with a wine siphon valve. I steppeddown the 3/4" tube to 3/8' with pieces of hose. I thinned mypolyurethane at two parts poly to one part thinner. My hanging system was a small spring with the tip slid into the end ofit and taped so that the spring continued as if an extension of the rod.A very small key ring was inserted in the loop end of the spring and apiece of round brass stock that was handy became the insert limit. The wine makers valve was totally worthless. There was no way to finetune the flow. It was either hell bent for leather, or if you got adecent drip going it stopped in a few minutes. SNIPPED The plastic hose, like Yours, is 3/4" diameter. In the bottom some kind ofplug,rubber, cork or what You've got. The rate of flow will slow down, as the level of poly decreases - thatsinevitable. You therefore MUST have some way to regulate the flow, that isif Youwant a constante rate of flow during the whole process. As I remarked acouple ofdays ago, I use a little plastic valve, bougt in the local pet shop. It is used thewhole process. To prevent the rod from touching the tube I use little "coins" of thinplywood,sligthly smaller in diameter than the tube.. A hole in the middle for the tipofthe rod, other holes for the poly to pass through. You squeeze the "coin"half aninch up the rod piece, lower the thing into the tube, and thats it. Don't useaspring at the top of the tube, use something non stretchable, a wire orstring.This ways the rod piece will hang steady. 2 final tips: When the poly goes out of the bottom, air gets in from the top.Airmeans dust. Prevent dust from entering by the use of a coffee filter, tapedto thetop of the rig. Furthermore, The evaporating poly is acutally heavier thanair.You therefore must remove the plug/valve at the bottom of the rig in orderto havethe poly drying as efficient as possible. As You will see, You actually haveaflow of air through the rig when drying, whick is why You need the filterat thetop when lovering the poly, and the drying. Do not place a bulb below inorder tomake the rod dry faster. This will prevent the poly from "falling down"plusintroduce dust to the rod. (Been there, done that) This way of applying finish to the rod has one thing, which, IMHO makes itverygood: One has the opportunity to apply finish without applying dust at thesametime. This is where it differentiate from other methods, available to theamateurrodmaker. The whole proces will go along in a more pleasant and relaxing way ifcombinedwith the use of good tobacco and a glass of Your favourite malt. regards, Carsten from cmj@post11.tele.dk Tue Sep 22 02:16:05 1998 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0200 Subject: Sv: The return of "Dial Indicators for Dummies" CAA24561 Steve wrote (snipped) from channer@hubwest.com Tue Sep 22 06:41:39 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AD5A824011A; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 05:43:22 MDT Subject: Re: Growing your own cane At 08:53 PM 9/21/98 -0600, you wrote:Max When I was curator of the FFF IFFC Museum in West Yellowstone. Iaccessioned a rod made by a Japonese rod maker. His rod making wasbased on his reading of Garrison, but facing the same problem many ofdid at that time, he had trouble finding Tonkin Cane. The rod hedonated was made of a Japonese Bamboo. He refused to identify it forme, but did say that he had had the material compared with Tonkin at theUniversity of Tokyo, and that in all respects it was superior toTonkin. The most unusual aspect of the material was the color. Insteadof yellow or tan like Tonkin this bamboo was almost white. It reallyhad the aspect of old ivory and the rod because of its color was one ofthe most beautiful I have ever seen. I have checked with a number ofpeople in Japan and nobody seems to know anything of the maker. Hissurname is Urano Ralph Moon Ralph;Were you allowed to cast this rod? and could it dance the dance?John Channer from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Tue Sep 22 07:18:35 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2b6);Tue, 22Sep 1998 08:27:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Non-Commercialism I agree completely and would like to take the time to apologize to everyone for mis-sent messages. I think it happens to all of us every now and then....hit the button and the message shows up on the list. I swear every time....oh well...what can you do except to try and keep it to a minimum. Take care,Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from anglport@con2.com Tue Sep 22 07:29:19 1998 Subject: Re: The return of "Dial Indicators for Dummies" Tony,The problem that you are not dealing with in your hypothesis is that whenyou set the indicator to zero you are using the ACTUAL point and when youmeasure the depth you are using a "virtual" point (there's that computerterm again).If the point has been dinged the shoulders won't meet at theactual point and when THEY tell you the depth of the groove there will be adiscrepancy between the actual depth and the virtual depth (the indicatorthinks the surface is farther away than it really is). I guess it would befair to say that your depth reading will be accurate but your initialzeroing will have been off so that the difference will be computedincorrectly.The use of the calibrator sets your zero using the shoulders ofthe point (what you're actually measuring the vee with) so that there is nopossibility of the zeroing and the measuring being out of synch with eachother.This will involve seeing (one-half) the tip as a 30-60-90 degtriangleand using trig to find what the indicator "THINKS" is the point's position.I'm going to try to show a diagram here but I don't have much hope for it. top is 1/2 the hole's width (1/16" in previous example)-------------| / 60 deg I must be a little thick and might need some claerafing. Thanks,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Sep 22 07:31:38 1998 Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:31:27 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Growing your own cane On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, irish-george wrote: I doubt I could speak really good English after drinking enough to make a nodeless rod! For the interest of science and the list, I'll give it a go :-) Tony I guess you could build a nodeless rod if you REALLY like saki! Went to a sushi bar the other night and they served cold saki in abamboo jug that was just a 12-15" length of bamboo with a hole in thedam for the saki to come out. It was about 5-6" in diameter and hadovera 1/4" of real good power fiber. I tried to find out where they got itbut nobody really spoke English. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Sep 22 07:37:22 1998 Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:37:12 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Non-Commercialism On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, Mike Biondo wrote: Sorry to bring this up, and certainly not single out Jon, or Gerald (therehave been other recent, and more blatant examples) but Gerald's postprompts me to think that perhaps a reminder of the noncommercialnature ofour list is in order. Gerald writes... Again, not to single out Gerald, his reply could have very well beenmeantto go directly to Jon. However it bears mentioning that the RODMAKERSlistis not the place to conduct business, nor to advertise. We are fortunateto have as listmembers, suppliers of everything from tools, to cane, tocomponents, to completed rods, and their services are a valuable assettous all. I urge everyone to use them...just not through the list. Andlikewise to the suppliers, if someone on the list is in need, and you canfulfill that need, I'm sure your services would be most appreciated...justnot through the list. Business of any type is best conducted via privateemail. Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy...who right now feels like RODMAKERS Listjerk forbringing this up but I feel this is something that is important to us all,and the well-being of the list. Thanks for listening... Mike,point well taken *but* I sort of like seeing what is around and who's doing it. Agreed too much is too much. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from Anachemrpo@aol.com Tue Sep 22 08:06:47 1998 Subject: Art Port and Dial Indicators 101 (or maybe 401) In a message dated 98-09-22 08:35:57 EDT, you write: What a remarkable explanation.I had grasped the concept before...but just barely.Thank you for the detailed explanation and picture.Once again this list proves to be an unparalelled resource, particularly forwe technically challenged types. Thank you. Russ Lavigne from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Tue Sep 22 08:11:10 1998 (may beforged)) Subject: Non-Commercialism Mike,Thanks for reminding us. We need it every now and then. News is onething. Discussion is another. Information is good. And commercialsales all together a different animal. However, some list members could make it easier for us to respond tothem off list if they would be sure to include their name and E-Mailaddress at the end of their post. The post information provided by theInternet Service Provider that I am provided with at work by my employerlooks like this "IN:rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu". Thus if you don'tsign your post I have to guess who sent it. I make a lot of wrongassumptions. I know that other list members have the same problem. Ihave seen others mention it in their posts (Right Don?). I have beenlazy of late in not adding my E-Mail address to my posts. I willcorrect this on my part. My $.02. Dick Fuhrmandickfuhrman@rheemote.comordickay@alltel.net from anglport@con2.com Tue Sep 22 08:30:51 1998 Subject: Re: Art Port and Dial Indicators 101 (or maybe 401) Russ,(In a gruff voice) "Someday someone will come to you and tell you that Irequire a favor. You will provide this favor for me. Now go and enjoy thewedding party."(Marlon Brando, if you're too young to recall the not- perfectly-rememberedquote's source....)Art At 09:05 AM 9/22/98 EDT, you wrote:In a message dated 98-09-22 08:35:57 EDT, you write: stinks I have a feeling we're going to be in a real pickle though.(I'll giveyou instructions on how to draw it yourself)Art >> What a remarkable explanation.I had grasped the concept before...but just barely.Thank you for the detailed explanation and picture.Once again this list proves to be an unparalelled resource, particularlyforwe technically challenged types. Thank you. Russ Lavigne from FlyTyr@southshore.com Tue Sep 22 08:37:45 1998 (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA24942 for ;Tue, 22 Sep1998 08:38:57 - 0500 Subject: Re: Art Port and Dial Indicators 101 (or maybe 401) I was not going to reply on list but after thinking about it I thought Ishould.The point I have is a full 60 degree precession ground point some otherpointsare blunt on the end so this will not give a true" Zero". I see the need of acalibration block now. Art brought up another "point" what if it is dinged ?Acalibration block I will make.Thanks to all for the pointers.Tony Anachemrpo@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 98-09-22 08:35:57 EDT, you write: stinks I have a feeling we're going to be in a real pickle though.(I'll giveyou instructions on how to draw it yourself)Art >> What a remarkable explanation.I had grasped the concept before...but just barely.Thank you for the detailed explanation and picture.Once again this list proves to be an unparalelled resource, particularlyforwe technically challenged types. Thank you. Russ Lavigne from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Tue Sep 22 09:38:11 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Growing your own cane it was a new concept for me too but we forced ourselves to drink itanyway. The power fiber in the bamboo jug was the best fiber I've everseen even better that the picture in Garrison's book. ----------From: bob maulucci[SMTP:bobbo@buffnet.net] Sent: Monday, September 21, 1998 7:43 PM Subject: RE: Growing your own cane I think the concept of cold saki is a new one for me too!Bob At 08:31 AM 9/20/98 -0700, you wrote:Went to a sushi bar the other night and they served cold saki in abamboo jug that was just a 12-15" length of bamboo with a hole in thedam for the saki to come out. It was about 5-6" in diameter and hadovera 1/4" of real good power fiber. I tried to find out where they gotitbut nobody really spoke English. ----------From: SalarFly@aol.com[SMTP:SalarFly@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, September 20, 1998 8:23 AM Subject: Re: Growing your own cane In a message dated 9/20/98 7:26:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time,fbcwin@fsbnet.comwrites: If it is Tonkin, which I doubt, I can get all of it I'll everneed.I've tried to find a local plant taxonomist (is that the right term?)whocan you know. Try making a rod out of it. If it works, it works. I have alwaysbeenintriged by the descriptions of Moso bamboo. 80 feet tall and 8 to12 inches in diameter. Bamboo that big has to have some powerfiber. Darryl -----------------------------Bob Maulucci218 Wallace Ave.Buffalo, New York 14216716-836-8297 http://www.buffnet.net/~bobbo/welcome.htm "Establish a better reputation for honesty in your home community;then you wont have to bring in dead fish to prove that your not aliar." - Kenneth Reid from dhaftel@att.com Tue Sep 22 09:47:35 1998 sender att.com!dhaftel (att.com!dhaftel); Tue Sep 22 10:38 EDT 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) (5.5.1960.3) Subject: RE: Growing your own cane ...And if the sake was hot you could have straightened it if necessary! (Ihate cold sake!) Dennis HaftelIST-COE/APTPhone: (732) 805-2714Pager:(908) 261-1944e- mail: dhaftel@att.com -----Original Message-----From: Coffey, Patrick W [SMTP:Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com]Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 1998 10:38 AM Subject: RE: Growing your own cane it was a new concept for me too but we forced ourselves to drink itanyway. The power fiber in the bamboo jug was the best fiber I've everseen even better that the picture in Garrison's book. ----------From: bob maulucci[SMTP:bobbo@buffnet.net] Sent: Monday, September 21, 1998 7:43 PM Subject: RE: Growing your own cane I think the concept of cold saki is a new one for me too!Bob At 08:31 AM 9/20/98 -0700, you wrote:Went to a sushi bar the other night and they served cold saki in abamboo jug that was just a 12-15" length of bamboo with a hole in thedam for the saki to come out. It was about 5-6" in diameter and hadovera 1/4" of real good power fiber. I tried to find out where they gotitbut nobody really spoke English. ----------From: SalarFly@aol.com[SMTP:SalarFly@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, September 20, 1998 8:23 AM Subject: Re: Growing your own cane In a message dated 9/20/98 7:26:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time,fbcwin@fsbnet.comwrites: If it is Tonkin, which I doubt, I can get all of it I'll everneed.I've tried to find a local plant taxonomist (is that the right term?)whocan you know. Try making a rod out of it. If it works, it works. I have alwaysbeenintriged by the descriptions of Moso bamboo. 80 feet tall and 8 to12 inches in diameter. Bamboo that big has to have some powerfiber. Darryl -----------------------------Bob Maulucci218 Wallace Ave.Buffalo, New York 14216716-836-8297 http://www.buffnet.net/~bobbo/welcome.htm "Establish a better reputation for honesty in your home community;then you wont have to bring in dead fish to prove that your not aliar." - Kenneth Reid from gwr@seanet.com Tue Sep 22 13:32:21 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA20638 for; Tue, Subject: Re: Commercialism boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B9_01BDE61D.3D61C6A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B9_01BDE61D.3D61C6A0 Mike & all, I'm one of the worst 'violators' of the non-commercial aspect of thelist. With one exception, I've never received anything except positivecomments & outright thanks for letting folks know about hard to findtools &components. from what I've seen, the same goes for Mr. Lintvet, Mr. Royer,Mr. Demarest and all the other commercial players who occasionally do abitof advertising on the list, i.e., they get positive feedback and, if they'relike me, they get even more positive feedback off-list than that whichshowsup on-list. Most people appreciate information. No one is forced to buyanything. Advertising is merely another aspect of the information flowthatis so critical to this list. Some guys want info on how to build a tool sothat they are more intimately involved in the entire process of rodmaking,some want info on where to buy the tool so that they can get down tomakingrods. Similarly for components: rod makers are using component "a,"despite knowing that "b" is more apropos for cane rods, only because theydon't know of a source for "b." Knowledge is power.Advertising can be a plague or a pleasure. I personally hate picking upthe phone to find yet another telemarketer on the line trying to get me toswitch phone services. But when the wood working & tool catalogs arrivebymail (where I can respond at my leisure), I'm in seventh heaven. I readthem over breakfast, circle the good tools, order the really important onesif I can afford them, and then select a few that I'd love to have for someholiday gift and give the catalog to my wife (who usually just tosses it inthe garbage). Many of my favorite catalogs, Constantines, JapanWoodworker,MSC, &c, I learned about through the list. In the end, the question is oneof relevancy. I don't advertise the fact that I make certain pieces ofreproduction hardware for civil war re-enactment groups, or that I'mrunninga sale on synthetic rod blanks (I'm not running a sale so that was not a slyad), because this is a cane rod making listserve. Bamboo, fancycomponents,glace cotton, hand tools, power tools...these products are relevant to thesuccess of every man and woman who reads the list. The fact that a fewofus actually profit from the sale of these products only means that we'll behere tomorrow to supply products to the next person who happens uponthisexceptional hobby/business.Mike, I understand your concerns about commercialism on the list - forthose who aren't interested, it is a waste of bandwidth. But I would arguethat cane rod related ads are at least as relevant to the average lister asrecipes for possum potpie. There may be some legitimate legal concernsifthe ISP (right term?) for the listserve has a policy of providing theservice for free so long as there are no commercial elements. That's aconcern that I'd take very seriously because I wouldn't want to jeopardizethe listserve - it is too valuable a resource. I also recognize that incommenting on commercialism, you were not attacking those who make alivingor partial living by responding to the needs of rod makers. Rather, youwere simply saying that there may be a better way to get informationacrossthan to make direct use of the listserve as an advertising tool.I would like to propose a compromise that will save bandwidth, keepdirect commercialism off the list, keep listers informed, and help keep uscommercialists in business to service everyone's needs in future days. Inthe future when I have a new product that I'd like to let everyone knowabout, I would like to write a one sentence note to the list that includesthe name of the product, its basic function, and the URL where more infocanbe found. For commercialists without a web site, they could include theiremail address so that interested parties could contact them off list. Inthe subject heading for the mini-ad, I'll make a note that this is "ACommercial For.." so that listers can just delete the ad if they aren't inthe mood. Furthermore, when archiving, I suspect it would be easy enoughtopitch all posts that admit to commercialism in the subject heading.I look forward to comments. With Best Regards, Russ GoodingGolden Witch Rodsgwr@seanet.com ------=_NextPart_000_00B9_01BDE61D.3D61C6A0 name="Golden Witch Rods.vcf" filename="Golden Witch Rods.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDN:Gooding;John;R.FN:Golden Witch RodsORG:Golden Witch RodsTITLE:Rod MakerTEL;WORK;VOICE:(425) 787- 6599TEL;PAGER;VOICE:noneTEL;WORK;FAX:noneADR;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A;Lynnwood;WA;98037;USALABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A=3D0D=3D0ALynnwood, WA =98037=3D0D=3D0AUSAURL:http://www.goldenwitch.comEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:gwr@seanet.comEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_00B9_01BDE61D.3D61C6A0-- from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Tue Sep 22 13:57:09 1998 (modemcable233.174.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Commercialism As a new bamboo rodmaker, I find it to be EXTREMELY useful to able toplacea post on Rodmakers asking where I can find a piece of equipment, howmuchit should cost, etc. Is it advertising when a satisfied list membermentionsa source? I hope not. Is it advertising when a list member mentions thatheis a source for that piece of equipment? I hope not again. Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Commercialism Mike & all, I'm one of the worst 'violators' of the non-commercial aspect of thelist. With one exception, I've never received anything except positivecomments & outright thanks for letting folks know about hard to findtools &components. from what I've seen, the same goes for Mr. Lintvet, Mr. Royer,Mr. Demarest and all the other commercial players who occasionally do abitof advertising on the list, i.e., they get positive feedback and, if they'relike me, they get even more positive feedback off-list than that whichshowsup on-list. Most people appreciate information. No one is forced to buyanything. Advertising is merely another aspect of the information flowthatis so critical to this list. Some guys want info on how to build a tool sothat they are more intimately involved in the entire process of rodmaking,some want info on where to buy the tool so that they can get down tomakingrods. Similarly for components: rod makers are using component "a,"despite knowing that "b" is more apropos for cane rods, only because theydon't know of a source for "b." Knowledge is power.Advertising can be a plague or a pleasure. I personally hate picking upthe phone to find yet another telemarketer on the line trying to get me toswitch phone services. But when the wood working & tool catalogs arrivebymail (where I can respond at my leisure), I'm in seventh heaven. I readthem over breakfast, circle the good tools, order the really important onesif I can afford them, and then select a few that I'd love to have for someholiday gift and give the catalog to my wife (who usually just tosses it inthe garbage). Many of my favorite catalogs, Constantines, JapanWoodworker,MSC, &c, I learned about through the list. In the end, the question is oneof relevancy. I don't advertise the fact that I make certain pieces ofreproduction hardware for civil war re-enactment groups, or that I'mrunninga sale on synthetic rod blanks (I'm not running a sale so that was not a slyad), because this is a cane rod making listserve. Bamboo, fancycomponents,glace cotton, hand tools, power tools...these products are relevant to thesuccess of every man and woman who reads the list. The fact that a fewofus actually profit from the sale of these products only means that we'll behere tomorrow to supply products to the next person who happens uponthisexceptional hobby/business.Mike, I understand your concerns about commercialism on the list - forthose who aren't interested, it is a waste of bandwidth. But I would arguethat cane rod related ads are at least as relevant to the average lister asrecipes for possum potpie. There may be some legitimate legal concernsifthe ISP (right term?) for the listserve has a policy of providing theservice for free so long as there are no commercial elements. That's aconcern that I'd take very seriously because I wouldn't want to jeopardizethe listserve - it is too valuable a resource. I also recognize that incommenting on commercialism, you were not attacking those who make alivingor partial living by responding to the needs of rod makers. Rather, youwere simply saying that there may be a better way to get informationacrossthan to make direct use of the listserve as an advertising tool.I would like to propose a compromise that will save bandwidth, keepdirect commercialism off the list, keep listers informed, and help keep uscommercialists in business to service everyone's needs in future days. Inthe future when I have a new product that I'd like to let everyone knowabout, I would like to write a one sentence note to the list that includesthe name of the product, its basic function, and the URL where more infocanbe found. For commercialists without a web site, they could include theiremail address so that interested parties could contact them off list. Inthe subject heading for the mini-ad, I'll make a note that this is "ACommercial For.." so that listers can just delete the ad if they aren't inthe mood. Furthermore, when archiving, I suspect it would be easy enoughtopitch all posts that admit to commercialism in the subject heading.I look forward to comments. With Best Regards, Russ GoodingGolden Witch Rodsgwr@seanet.com from rclarke@eou.edu Tue Sep 22 14:03:17 1998 Subject: Re: Commercialism ---------- I appreciate what Russ has said. I find it useful to hear about what isavailable. I have had very good contact with all parties mentioned. Ihave done business with a few of the folks, and found all to be very goodpeople to deal with. I can understand why we want to keep it to aminimum,but I think all parties involved here are gentlemen (or gentle people?) andappreciate the delicateness of how to post such issues. OK, flame away! :) Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu Mike & all, I'm one of the worst 'violators' of the non-commercial aspect of thelist. With one exception, I've never received anything except positivecomments & outright thanks for letting folks know about hard to findtools&components. (SNIP) With Best Regards, Russ GoodingGolden Witch Rodsgwr@seanet.com ---------- from ljrp@penn.com Tue Sep 22 14:08:31 1998 Subject: Re: Commercialism U BET!!!! Nice to know where items are available and browse bamboo stuff Richard Nantel wrote: As a new bamboo rodmaker, I find it to be EXTREMELY useful to able toplacea post on Rodmakers asking where I can find a piece of equipment, howmuchit should cost, etc. Is it advertising when a satisfied list membermentionsa source? I hope not. Is it advertising when a list member mentions thatheis a source for that piece of equipment? I hope not again. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 1998 2:36 PM Subject: Re: Commercialism Mike & all, I'm one of the worst 'violators' of the non-commercial aspect of thelist. With one exception, I've never received anything except positivecomments & outright thanks for letting folks know about hard to findtools &components. from what I've seen, the same goes for Mr. Lintvet, Mr.Royer,Mr. Demarest and all the other commercial players who occasionally do abitof advertising on the list, i.e., they get positive feedback and, if they'relike me, they get even more positive feedback off-list than that whichshowsup on-list. Most people appreciate information. No one is forced to buyanything. Advertising is merely another aspect of the information flowthatis so critical to this list. Some guys want info on how to build a tool sothat they are more intimately involved in the entire process of rodmaking,some want info on where to buy the tool so that they can get down tomakingrods. Similarly for components: rod makers are using component "a,"despite knowing that "b" is more apropos for cane rods, only becausetheydon't know of a source for "b." Knowledge is power.Advertising can be a plague or a pleasure. I personally hate picking upthe phone to find yet another telemarketer on the line trying to get me toswitch phone services. But when the wood working & tool catalogsarrive bymail (where I can respond at my leisure), I'm in seventh heaven. I readthem over breakfast, circle the good tools, order the really importantonesif I can afford them, and then select a few that I'd love to have for someholiday gift and give the catalog to my wife (who usually just tosses itinthe garbage). Many of my favorite catalogs, Constantines, JapanWoodworker,MSC, &c, I learned about through the list. In the end, the question is oneof relevancy. I don't advertise the fact that I make certain pieces ofreproduction hardware for civil war re-enactment groups, or that I'mrunninga sale on synthetic rod blanks (I'm not running a sale so that was not aslyad), because this is a cane rod making listserve. Bamboo, fancycomponents,glace cotton, hand tools, power tools...these products are relevant to thesuccess of every man and woman who reads the list. The fact that a fewofus actually profit from the sale of these products only means that we'llbehere tomorrow to supply products to the next person who happens uponthisexceptional hobby/business.Mike, I understand your concerns about commercialism on the list -forthose who aren't interested, it is a waste of bandwidth. But I wouldarguethat cane rod related ads are at least as relevant to the average lister asrecipes for possum potpie. There may be some legitimate legal concernsifthe ISP (right term?) for the listserve has a policy of providing theservice for free so long as there are no commercial elements. That's aconcern that I'd take very seriously because I wouldn't want tojeopardizethe listserve - it is too valuable a resource. I also recognize that incommenting on commercialism, you were not attacking those who make alivingor partial living by responding to the needs of rod makers. Rather, youwere simply saying that there may be a better way to get informationacrossthan to make direct use of the listserve as an advertising tool.I would like to propose a compromise that will save bandwidth, keepdirect commercialism off the list, keep listers informed, and help keepuscommercialists in business to service everyone's needs in future days. Inthe future when I have a new product that I'd like to let everyone knowabout, I would like to write a one sentence note to the list that includesthe name of the product, its basic function, and the URL where more infocanbe found. For commercialists without a web site, they could includetheiremail address so that interested parties could contact them off list. Inthe subject heading for the mini-ad, I'll make a note that this is "ACommercial For.." so that listers can just delete the ad if they aren't inthe mood. Furthermore, when archiving, I suspect it would be easyenough topitch all posts that admit to commercialism in the subject heading.I look forward to comments. With Best Regards, Russ GoodingGolden Witch Rodsgwr@seanet.com from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Tue Sep 22 14:14:13 1998 Subject: RE: Commercialism On Tue, 22 Sep 1998, Richard Nantel wrote: As a new bamboo rodmaker, I find it to be EXTREMELY useful to able toplace> a post on Rodmakers asking where I can find a piece of equipment,how muchit should cost, etc. Agreed. Is it advertising when a satisfied list member mentionsa source? No I hope not. Is it advertising when a list member mentions that heis a source for that piece of equipment? Actually, yes since it's just as easily done by private email. I hope not again. Abandon hope, all ye entering cyberspace. Regards, Bob Bob PerryFly Suppliesflysupplies@yahoo.com from sniderja@email.uc.edu Tue Sep 22 15:03:31 1998 Subject: commercialism But what if I knew of an individual (private person, not a dealer) who hada bunch of old quality bamboo rods he was interested in getting rid off,including a couple of Garrisons? You folks likely would have a greaterinterest than most and should have first shot at such an offer. If nothere, where does one post such an offer? Usual disclaimers that i wouldbereceiving no compensation (i.e. broker's fee) and would be posting onlyname and telephone number. Indeed, I recently ran into such a person in alocal fly shop who happened to have an Orvis 6' 6wt one piece bamboo rodinhis hands. I desperately wanted to get the taper from it, and he kindlypermitted me to do so. Even let me cast it. He informed me that he hadseveral bamboo rods, including two Garrisons, and he was of an age wherehelikely should begin thinking of getting rid of some of them. My mouthbegandrooling heavily (I had to wipe the drool off his vest with my big redbandana) and I was thinking to myself,"well, if I can't afford one of theserods, perhaps someone on the rodmakers list might be interested." If Ihaveinadvertedly turned this into a crass commercial, my apologies up front.But geez, how does one not get excited about such a possibility. Jerry Snider from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Tue Sep 22 15:26:23 1998 QAA03480 Subject: RE: commercialism Easy answer on this Jerry, you e:mail me! Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 1998 3:57 PM Subject: commercialism But what if I knew of an individual (private person, not adealer) who hada bunch of old quality bamboo rods he was interested ingetting rid off,including a couple of Garrisons? You folks likely would havea greaterinterest than most and should have first shot at such anoffer. If nothere, where does one post such an offer? Usual disclaimersthat i would bereceiving no compensation (i.e. broker's fee) and would beposting onlyname and telephone number. Indeed, I recently ran into sucha person in alocal fly shop who happened to have an Orvis 6' 6wt onepiece bamboo rod inhis hands. I desperately wanted to get the taper from it,and he kindlypermitted me to do so. Even let me cast it. He informed methat he hadseveral bamboo rods, including two Garrisons, and he was ofan age where helikely should begin thinking of getting rid of some of them.My mouth begandrooling heavily (I had to wipe the drool off his vest withmy big redbandana) and I was thinking to myself,"well, if I can'tafford one of theserods, perhaps someone on the rodmakers list might beinterested." If I haveinadvertedly turned this into a crass commercial, myapologies up front.But geez, how does one not get excited about such apossibility. Jerry Snider from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Tue Sep 22 15:28:23 1998 ; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 08:28:16 +1200 Subject: Re: Commercialism At 11:36 AM 22/09/98 -0700, you wrote:Mike , Russ, and all,This is a difficult problem which seems to arise on most special usegroups from time to time. from my point of view as a relatively new rodmaker ,andsomewhat distant from most sources of commercial information andadvice , Ihave always found the commercial information which appears on this listfromtime to time to be of great value and I would not have got started withoutthe knowledge and assistance of some people on this list who I boughtmaterial or items off. At the same time I appreciate that in five years time I may have all thegear I need (does that time ever arise? )and might find some of thecontentof the list just taking up bandwidth. from my perspective I must say the members of this list who do haveproducts offend me although it is at times irrelevent to me personally. Certainlythere is a very difficult "line " to walk between whether it is correct toadvise a person that they should buy an item from Woodworker catalogueorJon, or whether Jon(for example only ) should reply direct . Russ has made a suggestion as to one way to handle this problem . Anothergroup I am on handles it by having a weekly " dispatch " of commercialswithcommercials relevent to the group in recognition of the value ofcommercialsto members. Again from my perspective , I believe this group is the best group I haveseen in terms of helpfull and generous people who show a naturalcorrectnesswithout any rules . Ocassionally some members the group may needremindingof the undefined "line" but I would hate to try and define where that lineis . Unfortunately one readers advertisement is the next readers valuableinformation. Unfortunately this subject could take up a great deal of bandwidth but isunlikely to lead to any firm solution or rules without detracting from thespirit of the group. I suggest we drop this subject following Mikes gentle reminder. regards Iank Mike & all, I'm one of the worst 'violators' of the non-commercial aspect of thelist. With one exception, I've never received anything except positivecomments & outright thanks for letting folks know about hard to findtools &components. deletedMike, I understand your concerns about commercialism on the list - forthose who aren't interested, it is a waste of bandwidth. But I wouldarguethat cane rod related ads are at least as relevant to the average lister asrecipes for possum potpie.deletedI would like to propose a compromise that will save bandwidth, keepdirect commercialism off the list, keep listers informed, and help keepuscommercialists in business to service everyone's needs in future days. deleted I look forward to comments. With Best Regards, Russ GoodingGolden Witch Rodsgwr@seanet.com Attachment Converted: C:\EUDORA\GoldenW3.vcf Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz from geraldb@pennwell.com Tue Sep 22 15:37:23 1998 (5.0.1460.8) Subject: Didn't realize it did THAT! Gads! Hope I do better when it comes time for splitting and planing (orheattreating!) :) Honestly. I know better than to take my commerce public in a list. And,sincerely apologize for airing my message to Jon in front of everyone else.I had intended that to be a private exchange but somehow accidentallyfouledit up. I would have replied earlier but am on rodmakers digest... GB from hexagon@odyssee.net Tue Sep 22 15:51:00 1998 Subject: no more planing Hi, hand planed in any way. The strips were machined from start to finish.I have been determined to get out of hand planing even if quittingrodmaking was the only alternative I had left. I basically stoppedbuilding rods about 2 years ago because I wanted to concentrate onbuilding equipment which I could not do with orders to fill.I could foresee an increase in demand for can rods that could not besatisfied by hand planers. I did not want to resort to the oldtechnology and copy a beveler but decided to try to build a machine thatincorporates some of the advances of the present.The old bevelers created lots of scrap which I did not want. I stilllike the idea of all the strips coming from the same culmI am not into collector or museum quality rods (whatever they are) Iwant to be in a position to get some rods out there so anglers can seethem and buy them of the shelf.Terry Ackland from michael@wugate.wustl.edu Tue Sep 22 15:51:56 1998 Subject: RE: Commercialism Richard asks a very good question... Is it advertising when a list member mentions that heis a source for that piece of equipment? In my opinion, yes it is. These are the type of responses that should behandled via private email. The problem with a list member mentioning"that heis a source for that piece of equipment" is that if left unchecked it canquickly grow from "mentioning that he is a source for that piece ofequipment" to listing complete pricelists, etc. If you check the recentarchives, you just might see some examples. On the other hand Russ Gooding brings up a good point...how best to let thelist know that he some great new tool that in his opinion we all need. I see it come across the list. I would though be more than happy to add my name to Russ' (as well as anyother of our several vendor's) private mailing list of folks that want tobe notified of sales, new products, etc. Do you guys have such a mailinglist? If so please feel free to add my name. I know it's a bit of work tomaintain an email mailing list (gawd, believe me...*I know* :-) but, it isa way to reach the folks that are interested in being reached withouthaving to use the list for such purposes. Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Tue Sep 22 16:03:57 1998 0400 Subject: Re: commercialism I think your mentioning this is an outrage and you should apologize by immediately responding to my personal email with this person's name and number... Andy p.s. I may not be able to afford it but I sure am curious ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: commercialism Author: at Tcpgate But what if I knew of an individual (private person, not a dealer) who hada bunch of old quality bamboo rods he was interested in getting rid off,including a couple of Garrisons? You folks likely would have a greaterinterest than most and should have first shot at such an offer. If nothere, where does one post such an offer? Usual disclaimers that i wouldbereceiving no compensation (i.e. broker's fee) and would be posting onlyname and telephone number. Indeed, I recently ran into such a person in alocal fly shop who happened to have an Orvis 6' 6wt one piece bamboo rodinhis hands. I desperately wanted to get the taper from it, and he kindlypermitted me to do so. Even let me cast it. He informed me that he hadseveral bamboo rods, including two Garrisons, and he was of an age wherehelikely should begin thinking of getting rid of some of them. My mouthbegandrooling heavily (I had to wipe the drool off his vest with my big redbandana) and I was thinking to myself,"well, if I can't afford one of theserods, perhaps someone on the rodmakers list might be interested." If Ihaveinadvertedly turned this into a crass commercial, my apologies up front.But geez, how does one not get excited about such a possibility. Jerry Snider from jfoster@gte.net Tue Sep 22 16:29:03 1998 Subject: comm Hey guys, part of the reason i built the rodmakers site was to take careof this kind of direct (indirect) commercialism. If you send your ads,etc to me i'll try to get my site back under control. then all you haveto do on the list is refer to the proper place on my site. i getnothing out of this , by the way.. another problem which Mike might not be mentioning is that his site (the university) might not like commercial activities on it's servers..we certainly don't want to jepordise the list.. jerry from michael@wugate.wustl.edu Tue Sep 22 16:29:07 1998 Subject: RE: Commercialism Sorry guys, in re-reading it sounded like I was suggesting you set up aLISTSERV list similar to RODMAKERS. I would though be more than happy to add my name to Russ' (as well asanyother of our several vendor's) private mailing list of folks that want tobe notified of sales, new products, etc. Do you guys have such a mailinglist? If so please feel free to add my name. What I was suggesting is no more than group-name in your mailer'saddressbook with the emails of folks who are interested in being notified. Iwould be happy to lend whatever assistance that I am capable of, ifneeded... Mike- from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Tue Sep 22 17:58:58 1998 Subject: Re: Commercialism On Tue, 22 Sep 1998, Golden Witch wrote: Mike & all, I'm one of the worst 'violators' of the non-commercial aspect of thelist. With one exception, I've never received anything except positivecomments & outright thanks for letting folks know about hard to findtools &components. from what I've seen, the same goes for Mr. Lintvet, Mr.Royer,Mr. Demarest and all the other commercial players who occasionally do abitof advertising on the list, i.e., they get positive feedback and, if they'relike me, they get even more positive feedback off-list than that whichshowsup on-list. Most people appreciate information. No one is forced to buyanything. Advertising is merely another aspect of the information flowthatis so critical to this list. Some guys want info on how to build a tool sothat they are more intimately involved in the entire process of rodmaking,some want info on where to buy the tool so that they can get down tomakingrods. Similarly for components: rod makers are using component "a,"despite knowing that "b" is more apropos for cane rods, only becausetheydon't know of a source for "b." Knowledge is power.Advertising can be a plague or a pleasure. I personally hate picking upthe phone to find yet another telemarketer on the line trying to get me toswitch phone services. But when the wood working & tool catalogsarrive bymail (where I can respond at my leisure), I'm in seventh heaven. I readthem over breakfast, circle the good tools, order the really importantonesif I can afford them, and then select a few that I'd love to have for someholiday gift and give the catalog to my wife (who usually just tosses itinthe garbage). Many of my favorite catalogs, Constantines, JapanWoodworker,MSC, &c, I learned about through the list. In the end, the question is oneof relevancy. I don't advertise the fact that I make certain pieces ofreproduction hardware for civil war re-enactment groups, or that I'mrunninga sale on synthetic rod blanks (I'm not running a sale so that was not aslyad), because this is a cane rod making listserve. Bamboo, fancycomponents,glace cotton, hand tools, power tools...these products are relevant to thesuccess of every man and woman who reads the list. The fact that a fewofus actually profit from the sale of these products only means that we'llbehere tomorrow to supply products to the next person who happens uponthisexceptional hobby/business.Mike, I understand your concerns about commercialism on the list -forthose who aren't interested, it is a waste of bandwidth. But I wouldarguethat cane rod related ads are at least as relevant to the average lister asrecipes for possum potpie. There may be some legitimate legal concernsifthe ISP (right term?) for the listserve has a policy of providing theservice for free so long as there are no commercial elements. That's aconcern that I'd take very seriously because I wouldn't want tojeopardizethe listserve - it is too valuable a resource. I also recognize that incommenting on commercialism, you were not attacking those who make alivingor partial living by responding to the needs of rod makers. Rather, youwere simply saying that there may be a better way to get informationacrossthan to make direct use of the listserve as an advertising tool.I would like to propose a compromise that will save bandwidth, keepdirect commercialism off the list, keep listers informed, and help keepuscommercialists in business to service everyone's needs in future days. Inthe future when I have a new product that I'd like to let everyone knowabout, I would like to write a one sentence note to the list that includesthe name of the product, its basic function, and the URL where more infocanbe found. For commercialists without a web site, they could includetheiremail address so that interested parties could contact them off list. Inthe subject heading for the mini-ad, I'll make a note that this is "ACommercial For.." so that listers can just delete the ad if they aren't inthe mood. Furthermore, when archiving, I suspect it would be easyenough topitch all posts that admit to commercialism in the subject heading. No good, you would leave the list open to so many ads, your head willspin. Hell, I could post a new product every day, 20 yesterday. Notgonna do it. Just because someone can use the delete doesn't NOT make itan ad. Regards, Bob Bob PerryFly Suppliesflysupplies@yahoo.com from rcochran@cadvision.com Tue Sep 22 18:22:58 1998 Subject: commercialism The chances of Rodmakers not being informed about new or improvedunadvertised products related to their interests - in very short order - isas likely an occurrence as Rodmakers not finding out about the latest hotfly. Anyone doubting that statement should inquire how rodmakers found outaboutA. Royer.keep commercialism outrcochran@cadvision.com from mbleak@telepath.com Tue Sep 22 18:26:05 1998 telepath.com (8.9.0/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA09545 for Subject: Re: Tom Smithwick binder Hi Jerry,I am a new wanna be rod builder who has read in the May archives on theRodbuilder page much to commend Tom Smithwick's binder. I would liketobuild this binder, but must have missed the detailed instructions onbuildingand , frankly, can't deduce them from the photo on Tom's webpage. Couldyouplease tell me the way you constructed it or direct me to constructiondetails. Thanks very much for your time. Mike Bleakley mbleak@telepath.com Jerry Snider wrote: Just spend Saturday constructing a binder of Tom Smithwick's design. Iamimpressed with the way it works. Having only built 8 rods to date, andwiththe first couple of rods simply bound by hand, once I began using theGarrison type binder I felt that I had little conrol over the process-- evenwith Chris Bogart's excellent article on "fine tuning." Guess once you getused to a particuar method, it is difficult to leave it. Anyway, Tom'sbinder still leaves a lot of control in the hands of the person doing thebinding, but makes it quicker to do the actual work. I know there was athread on this site from several of you who were going to rush out andtryTom's design right after he described it. I never did see any feedback,however. (I simply may have been out of town at that particular time, ifso, please forgive this intrusion). Any comments from those of you whotried it?Jerry Snider from mbleak@telepath.com Tue Sep 22 18:35:53 1998 telepath.com (8.9.0/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA11980 for Subject: Re: Tom Smithwick binder Please accept my apologies to the entire list for a post intended to beprivateemail.Sorry, Mike Bleakley Jerry Snider wrote: from rcurry@top.monad.net Tue Sep 22 19:16:31 1998 Subject: Re: Drip tube (drain type) Steve wrote:Comments and suggestions are welcome. I have not started jacking thefloor yet and all simpler solutions will be appreciated.Steve,I haven't tried this, but I would think that a small paperclip,stretched to fit over the tape on the ferrule and bent slightly to fitwithin your tubing, should keep the butt from contacting the sides.Best regards,Reed from saltwein@swbell.net Tue Sep 22 19:25:40 1998 gw3adm.rcsntx.swbell.net TAA07971 Subject: Re: Drip tube (drain type) bob maulucci wrote: At 04:13 PM 9/21/98 -0700, you wrote:Maybe you could use a foam ring at the top to hold the rod steady downthemiddle of the tube?Bob ........center of the tube for the drain. It stayed therer through thedrain, and then the bottom would swing to the side after the finishflowed past it. Another thing that might work, a rubber bumper at the very end,something along the lines of a faucet washer. It might even helprestrict the flow! Thanks for getting the wheels turning again Bob. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from thramer@presys.com Tue Sep 22 19:53:12 1998 0000 Subject: Re: no more planing Terence Ackland wrote: Hi, hand planed in any way. The strips were machined from start to finish.I have been determined to get out of hand planing even if quittingrodmaking was the only alternative I had left. I basically stoppedbuilding rods about 2 years ago because I wanted to concentrate onbuilding equipment which I could not do with orders to fill.I could foresee an increase in demand for can rods that could not besatisfied by hand planers. I did not want to resort to the oldtechnology and copy a beveler but decided to try to build a machine thatincorporates some of the advances of the present.The old bevelers created lots of scrap which I did not want. I stilllike the idea of all the strips coming from the same culmI am not into collector or museum quality rods (whatever they are) Iwant to be in a position to get some rods out there so anglers can seethem and buy them of the shelf.Terry Ackland Congratulations Terry!!, Missed your membership on the list. My beveler is now working also, itwas important to build the rod out of a single stick and I ran into thesame problem , too much waste with the old methods. I look forward tosending people your way when my rods action is too slow. Be prepared foran incredible backlog of orders when you sell fishing rods instead ofmodern collectibles :) A.J. from thramer@presys.com Tue Sep 22 19:58:15 1998 0000 Subject: SS snakes Someone on the list wanted some SS snake guides, here is the count, nota lot but......3/0 2002/0 1001/0 4-5001 1502 2003 100 A.J.Thramer from bdcreek@grand-rapids.crosswinds.net Tue Sep 22 19:58:30 1998 (envelope- from bdcreek@grand-rapids.crosswinds.net) Subject: Re: Non-Commercialism Mike-We all appreciate what you are doing, and WUSTL for the server. Don'tfeelBAD for enforcement duties. You're the (list)man, and it's yourresponsibility. Sometimes I'm sure the posts are accidental, sometimes Ithinkthey are just a result of us being too lazy to change the address. Brian Mike Biondo wrote: Sorry to bring this up, and certainly not single out Jon, or Gerald (therehave been other recent, and more blatant examples) but Gerald's postprompts me to think that perhaps a reminder of the noncommercialnature ofour list is in order. Gerald writes... John - Looked at your website. Nice job. If I'd like to purchase one of your usedVeritas jigs and a Miniature Brass and Rosewood Scraper Plane whatamountshould I make my check for, to whom and where should it be sent?Thanks. Gerald Buckley From: Jon LintvetSent: Monday, June 22, 1998 4:28 AM Subject: Re: rodmaking Not to advertise, but I sell them and I beat both places in terms ofprice. Again, not to single out Gerald, his reply could have very well beenmeantto go directly to Jon. However it bears mentioning that the RODMAKERSlistis not the place to conduct business, nor to advertise. We are fortunateto have as listmembers, suppliers of everything from tools, to cane, tocomponents, to completed rods, and their services are a valuable assettous all. I urge everyone to use them...just not through the list. Andlikewise to the suppliers, if someone on the list is in need, and you canfulfill that need, I'm sure your services would be most appreciated...justnot through the list. Business of any type is best conducted via privateemail. Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy...who right now feels like RODMAKERS Listjerk forbringing this up but I feel this is something that is important to us all,and the well-being of the list. Thanks for listening... from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Tue Sep 22 20:01:05 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Tue,22Sep 1998 21:09:29 -0400 Subject: Re: commercialism Not to rock the boat....but I heard about Andy through the list....glad I did. On 22 Sep 98, at 17:13, Robert Cochrane wrote: hot fly. Anyone doubting that statement should inquire how rodmakersfoundout about A. Royer. keep commercialism out rcochran@cadvision.com Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Tue Sep 22 20:01:24 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Tue,22Sep 1998 21:09:49 -0400 Subject: Dial Indicators and Calibration Bars... I feel compelled to speak out about this whole issue. A brand new point from Starrett or anyone else is precision ground and the point (in my honest opinion...IMHO) is probably more precise than any one of our rods. The calibration bars I use/make have two holes drilled through a 1/4" precision steel bar and then chamfered(sp) with a center drill. Once I have a small chamfer, I zero my dial indicator, with a new tip, on the bar without letting it fall into one of the holes. Then I read the depth of the each hole and slightly enlarge them and sand the face flat to eliminate burs until I have two whole number readings. Mark the dimensions on the bar on back. End result...you have allowed the tip to hit steel once. from then on you rotate the bezel until it reads the numbers you marked down earlier. from a fledgeling machinist, there is no way a person can make one of these bars precisely with a drill press and 1/8" drill bit. The biggest factor being: without reamers, you won't get close (relative to the dimension people have said a new tip is off) with a drill bit. Try it and you will see. Second, a chamfer is required for consistent seating of the tip. This is not just my opinion. Starett makes Webber gage blocks and the design is based on this concept.People ask me all the time for a method about how to check you tip accuracy before buying new ones. My recommendation: set your forms, plane a strip, measure it. If there is a discrepancy it is either you planing, measuring, or your tip. I would bet money on the first two, over the last any day.I won't even go into the fact most rodmakers tools are not even accurate to .005! ie:cheap indicators and calipers/micrometersJust FYI...several of Mitutoyo's digimatic indicators are accurate to +/- .0005. from Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from thramer@presys.com Tue Sep 22 20:03:02 1998 0000 Subject: 9ft 4wt The requested taper for a 9' 4wt 3pc 0 - .0705 - .08010- .09215- .11020- .12025- .13630- .15035- .17040- .19045- .20050- .21055- .22060- .22865- .24070- .25875- .27880- .29685- .31090- .32295- .330100-.338A.J.Thramer from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Sep 22 20:37:39 1998 Subject: Tool Pictures To All I put another page up on my home page(http://www.shentel.net/canerod)of the pictures people have been asking for. I can add more pictures latterbut it answers the mail quickly. Click on Rodmaking class menu item andthen on Rodmaking Tool Picture Album on that page. I put up 8 pictures andthink I found a good size as far as clarity and size. You will find the Medved beveler, Smithwick Power Sharpener andhis EZ-Binder, and my modified sharpening guide and plexiglass settingjig. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Sep 22 20:57:12 1998 Subject: Re: Non-Commercialism Mike,i appreciate this post you made and bringing this subject to light, but ihaveone question. if I have some bamboo rods or other such things that I haveforsale and I would like to give to you my friends on the list first chance howwould I let you all know without using the list.Bret from dickay@alltel.net Tue Sep 22 21:00:57 1998 VAA21726 Subject: Re: comm another problem which Mike might not be mentioning is that his site (the university) might not like commercial activities on it's servers..we certainly don't want to jeopardize the list.. Right Jerry! We don't want to get Mike into HOT water with the Universityand have them kick the list off their servers. That would be a BIG lose. I recognize the List Server as Washington University in St Louis. Educational institutions are funny about how their facilities are used. Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net from sjstill@iquest.net Tue Sep 22 21:13:54 1998 0000 (209.43.53.59) Subject: Medved Beveler Hi All, Someone, anyone, please, send me details onthe beveler. I just looked at itat Chris Bogarts site and I have an old Shopsmith Joint-Matic that I maybeable to convert. Cool looking machine! Thanks Al for designing it andChris for showing it! SteveSteve and Julie StillabowerIndianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Tue Sep 22 21:40:49 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Tue,22Sep 1998 22:48:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Non-Commercialism This brings about a good time to offer up some action on Mike's suggestion. I will offer to start a list which can be subscribe to by sending an e-mail message to my address. Any person wishing to receive or send a message containing any sort of commercial or advertising content can subscribe. If you wish to post a message relevant to rodmaking I will send it out to the list. I don't believe it will be that much work and should be an easy solution to a logistical problem. This intent is not to barrage individuals with mail, only to send out sporadic messages of commercial content to those who wish to hear about it. I promise you won't receive messages every day. If it gets to this point, messages will be consolidated into weekly announcements. So the rodmakers listserve understands...messages of this type would include non- profit silk orders such as Chris Lucker's...as well as profit engineered messages such as Russ Gooding's and mine. Take care and I hope to hear any suggestions or comments privately. Let's not waste the bandwidth. On 22 Sep 98, at 21:56, Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Mike,i appreciate this post you made and bringing this subject to light, but ihave one question. if I have some bamboo rods or other such things that Ihave for sale and I would like to give to you my friends on the list firstchance how would I let you all know without using the list. Bret Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from ragnarig@integrityol.com Tue Sep 22 23:47:35 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id AF8478500DC; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 21:56:36 PDT Subject: Re: Drip tube (drain type) I haven't tried this, but I would think that a small paperclip,stretched to fit over the tape on the ferrule and bent slightly to fitwithin your tubing, should keep the butt from contacting the sides. Hey Reed! Where in the Sam Hill were you when I was three monthsbuildingand calibrating my laser-sensored three-axis autoservo controlledtitaniumplated real-time computer-chronograph compensated section retractionsystem? Davy from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Wed Sep 23 00:05:55 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: no more planing I (for one) would love to see what you've come up with...if you're open tosharing.This is the direction I think I'll eventually head (right now I don't haveall the tools to do by hand but my background is in computer- controlledprocesses, from an EE standpoint, i.e., automated electrical testing). Ihave been working with a language which might be ideal for automatingrodblank production (I think I can create an object in it such that you can"drag" a stress curve up or down and have it automatically mill thecorresponding rod strips) -- so, I would be keeping my eyes open formillingmachinery ideas that might be adaptable. George Bourke -----Original Message----- Subject: no more planing Hi, hand planed in any way. The strips were machined from start to finish.I have been determined to get out of hand planing even if quittingrodmaking was the only alternative I had left. I basically stoppedbuilding rods about 2 years ago because I wanted to concentrate onbuilding equipment which I could not do with orders to fill.I could foresee an increase in demand for can rods that could not besatisfied by hand planers. I did not want to resort to the oldtechnology and copy a beveler but decided to try to build a machine thatincorporates some of the advances of the present.The old bevelers created lots of scrap which I did not want. I stilllike the idea of all the strips coming from the same culmI am not into collector or museum quality rods (whatever they are) Iwant to be in a position to get some rods out there so anglers can seethem and buy them of the shelf.Terry Ackland from stpete@netten.net Wed Sep 23 00:46:46 1998 cedar.netten.net(8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA10350 for ;Wed, 23 Sep Subject: Re: no more planing Good to hear from you again, Terry. I was feeling guilty, re: yourabsence, since I think I gave you both barrels over the Morgan Hand Milldebate several months ago. Seems that while I've been sitting on myhands, you've been quite busy! Hope to see your input more often. Congratulations on the rod, Rick Crenshaw from maxs@geocities.co.jp Wed Sep 23 01:01:58 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA00638 for; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 15:01:54 +0900 (JST) Subject: Suggestion for #6 wt. Rod Hello list, I was requested from my friend to make #6 line rod in very vaguemanner. As the maximum weight I mad is #4 so far,suggestion of taper with kind of action is appreciated. He will usethis rod mainly on the boat to fish 30~50cm Raibow, he hopes. (11~20inches) Rod length was not specified too. Arigato, Max -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHomePage:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169/indexe.html from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Sep 23 07:12:36 1998 Subject: Re: Tom Smithwick binder Mike and others who have expressed recent interest- I had a crashrecentlythat wiped out my original description of the binder. I will try to get adescription of the construction together in the next few days ,and post itatthe aol site. I'll notify the list when it is done. from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Sep 23 07:50:15 1998 (modemcable233.174.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: commercialism Me too. I'm very new to this art form. Have yet to attend a gathering sothis list along with a couple of books are the only source of information Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: commercialism Not to rock the boat....but I heard about Andy through thelist....glad I did. On 22 Sep 98, at 17:13, Robert Cochrane wrote: hot fly. Anyone doubting that statement should inquire how rodmakersfoundout about A. Royer. keep commercialism out rcochran@cadvision.com Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed Sep 23 08:24:21 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2);Wed, 23Sep 1998 09:32:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Salmon Reel... Thanks for the info... On 20 Sep 98, at 12:21, Greg Kuntz wrote: Jon Lintvet wrote: I was looking through some of the list for a salmon reel. Any ideas onHardy model numbers and such?Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277- 4510http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ Jon, You might want to contact Dick Spurr (The classic angler) or LenCodella- -I've gotten good smaller Hardys from Dick Spurr at reasonableprices and have seen many in Len's catalogs as well Greg Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Wed Sep 23 08:43:15 1998 Subject: Re: Suggestion for #6 wt. Rod At 15:02 23/09/98 +0900, Max wrote:Hello list, I was requested from my friend to make #6 line rod in very vaguemanner. As the maximum weight I mad is #4 so far,suggestion of taper with kind of action is appreciated. He will usethis rod mainly on the boat to fish 30~50cm Raibow, he hopes. (11~20inches) Rod length was not specified too. Arigato, Max Max, Have built a number of Garrison 8' 6 wts. and some Young Para 15 8' 6wts.The Garrison is slower for those that like this type of action whereas theYoung is stronger and seemly more "crisp". Bth have capabilties for largerfish. Don from maxs@geocities.co.jp Wed Sep 23 09:26:06 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA03809 for; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 23:26:01 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Suggestion for #6 wt. Rod Don Andersen wrote: Max, Have built a number of Garrison 8' 6 wts. and some Young Para 15 8'6wts.The Garrison is slower for those that like this type of action whereastheYoung is stronger and seemly more "crisp". Bth have capabilties forlargerfish. Don Hello Don, I try Para 15 as it is for dry and wet (two tips) and matches to therequirement of fishing onthe boat. Thank you for advice. Max -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHomePage:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169/indexe.html from cmj@post11.tele.dk Wed Sep 23 10:14:21 1998 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0200 Subject: Sv: Drip tube (drain type) KAA26050 I haven't tried this, but I would think that a small paperclip,stretched to fit over the tape on the ferrule and bent slightly to fitwithin your tubing, should keep the butt from contacting the sides. Hey Reed! Where in the Sam Hill were you when I was three monthsbuildingand calibrating my laser-sensored three-axis autoservo controlledtitaniumplated real-time computer-chronograph compensated section retractionsystem? Davy Could he have spent the time inventing the stretched paperclip ? Carsten from rmoon@ida.net Wed Sep 23 11:09:11 1998 Subject: Re: Growing your own cane Hi Christian. I think but I am not sure that his first name is Sieji(SP?) Urano. and as I recall I am almost certain he lived in Tokyo. Hedoes a first rate job. The rod he gave the FFF had gold colored metaland a Japanese Chestnut Handle. It all was encased in a clothlinedsection of Ba,boo about 4" in diamer as a case. Let me know how you aredoing. Ralph from rmoon@ida.net Wed Sep 23 11:11:34 1998 Subject: Re: Growing your own cane Thanks Max. The bamboo was definitely on the white side as comparedwith conventional bamboo, although it was a messow yellowish white. Iwill try to see if I have Mr. Urano's address. and let you knowRalph from rmoon@ida.net Wed Sep 23 11:14:30 1998 Subject: Re: Growing your own cane John. I was allowed to cast the rod. After all I was the boss, and Ididn't tell anyone. To my knowledge I am the only person in the US whodid cast it. I am almost sure that the rod was built on one of E.Garrison's tapers, and since I have never beeon completely enamoredwith his tapers, it would not have been an outstanding experience, butit was a good fly rod.Ralph from ragnarig@integrityol.com Wed Sep 23 14:33:14 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id AF288F023A; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:42:32 PDT Subject: Frazier book boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0055_01BDE6ED.F3595EC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0055_01BDE6ED.F3595EC0 Hi All! Hey, does anybody know anything about a book by Perry Frazier called =Amateur Rodmaking? It was published (printed?) in 1947 and is up for =auction on the eBay thingy. Auction ends this evening. =http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D30783390 Seems like I've heard something about this but, as with other rodmaking =materials unknown to me before I started, I've blocked it from my ="mind". Thought somebody might be interested. Davy ------=_NextPart_000_0055_01BDE6ED.F3595EC0 Hi All! Hey, does anybody know anything about a book by Perry Frazier = (printed?) = http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D30783390 Seems like I've heard something about this but, as with other = "mind". Thought somebody might be interested. Davy ------=_NextPart_000_0055_01BDE6ED.F3595EC0-- from hexagon@odyssee.net Wed Sep 23 15:12:51 1998 Subject: and now this.... There has always been comercial plugs on this list, from books, videos,binders, ovens etc. I guess what is tolerated is dependant on who isgetting the plug and by whom.I find the the commercial aspect of the list the most informative, Iwould not have tried a new supplier of cane had there not beendiscussions on quality and delivery. I would not in fact have knownthere was an alternative supplier as I do not have any other contactwith rodmaking.But for the reports on various suppliers and equipment most of thecontributions are generally pretty anaemic.Terry AcklandThe above is only my opinion and yours may very well differ from rcochran@cadvision.com Wed Sep 23 16:00:51 1998 0600 Subject: ad nauseum internally generated product discussion/evaluation/opinion exchange hasbeena mainstay of Rodmakers - advertising its not rcochran@cadvision.com from michael@wugate.wustl.edu Wed Sep 23 16:20:01 1998 Subject: Re: and now this.... Terry Ackland writes... (BTW, welcome back Terry!) There has always been comercial plugs on this list, from books, videos,binders, ovens etc. I guess what is tolerated is dependant on who isgetting the plug and by whom.I find the the commercial aspect of the list the most informative, Iwould not have tried a new supplier of cane had there not beendiscussions on quality and delivery. I would not in fact have knownthere was an alternative supplier as I do not have any other contactwith rodmaking. Okay folks, lets not loose sight of the intent of this discussion.Listmembers discussing the pro's & con's of different suppliers is *NOT*the problem here. The problem arises from the listmembers/*SUPPLIERS*using the list for advertising purposes. Let's face it, it's not often weever hear a listmember/supplier saying how good another supplier is. Moreoften than not, it's "my product is better and cheaper"! Advertising is *Advertising*, no matter how you try to disguise it... Can we move on to Rodmaking now? Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy from hexagon@odyssee.net Wed Sep 23 16:26:33 1998 Subject: Re: no more planing AJ, how are you?good to see you lurking around the list and trying to bring a little sanity.I am ready to roll now. I had to get out of hand planing, even the partialplaning I was doing. The old body does not like it anymore and I have beengetting these recurring nightmares of me standing by my planing formwhen I ameighty like those pictures of poor old Garrison in his book!I have been avoiding L's emails and could not bring myself to answer hisfaxes, I know I have let a lot of customers down but I knew which way Iwantedmy rodmaking to go.I have never really considered myself as a rodmaker, hand planing is notreally rodmaking to to my way of thinking.Terry A.J.Thramer wrote: Terence Ackland wrote: Hi, hand planed in any way. The strips were machined from start to finish.I have been determined to get out of hand planing even if quittingrodmaking was the only alternative I had left. I basically stoppedbuilding rods about 2 years ago because I wanted to concentrate onbuilding equipment which I could not do with orders to fill.I could foresee an increase in demand for can rods that could not besatisfied by hand planers. I did not want to resort to the oldtechnology and copy a beveler but decided to try to build a machine thatincorporates some of the advances of the present.The old bevelers created lots of scrap which I did not want. I stilllike the idea of all the strips coming from the same culmI am not into collector or museum quality rods (whatever they are) Iwant to be in a position to get some rods out there so anglers can seethem and buy them of the shelf.Terry Ackland Congratulations Terry!!, Missed your membership on the list. My beveler is now working also, itwas important to build the rod out of a single stick and I ran into thesame problem , too much waste with the old methods. I look forward tosending people your way when my rods action is too slow. Be preparedforan incredible backlog of orders when you sell fishing rods instead ofmodern collectibles :)A.J. from maxs@geocities.co.jp Wed Sep 23 17:48:23 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA16639 for; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 07:48:06 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Growing your own cane Ralph W Moon wrote:Thanks Max. The bamboo was definitely on the white side as comparedwith conventional bamboo, although it was a messow yellowish white. Iwill try to see if I have Mr. Urano's address. and let you knowRalph Ralph, I thank you for following this information. As for Mr. Urano'sinformation of my source was notexact, I will try to further ask around about Mr. Urano and ivory facedrod at our rod maker's meeting next November here. When you recall anyfurther info. about Mr. Urano, I d'like to know it. I should be more careful about the kind of bamboos which my countryproduces since there are several kinds. Forgive me please, as I enteredinto this world by learning that Tonkin is the best, I believed it withno doubt. It would be very nice for us if we can find a good bamboo article;"It was agreed that 3 kinds of "Akimal Rod"(Japanese Rod Maker) are tobe donated and exibited perpetually at Fly Fishing Museum (FFFInternational Fly Fishing Center), Livingstone, Montana. The rods arenamed as Kodachi 7'#3,7'4" #4, and new model 7' #4/5." Though this news is announced thismonth, it is different fromwhat you looked. I knew our rod makers have been donating their rodanyway. I will check them too. Akimal is located at Fukuoka in KyushuIsland. Best Regards, Max -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHomePage:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169/indexe.html from channer@hubwest.com Wed Sep 23 18:37:34 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A68F1BE014C; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:38:55 MDT Subject: Re: and now this.... At 04:19 PM 9/23/98 -0500, you wrote:Terry Ackland writes... (BTW, welcome back Terry!) There has always been comercial plugs on this list, from books, videos,binders, ovens etc. I guess what is tolerated is dependant on who isgetting the plug and by whom.I find the the commercial aspect of the list the most informative, Iwould not have tried a new supplier of cane had there not beendiscussions on quality and delivery. I would not in fact have knownthere was an alternative supplier as I do not have any other contactwith rodmaking. Okay folks, lets not loose sight of the intent of this discussion.Listmembers discussing the pro's & con's of different suppliers is *NOT*the problem here. The problem arises from thelistmembers/*SUPPLIERS*using the list for advertising purposes. Let's face it, it's not often weever hear a listmember/supplier saying how good another supplier is. Moreoften than not, it's "my product is better and cheaper"! Advertising is *Advertising*, no matter how you try to disguise it... Can we move on to Rodmaking now? Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy Yes,pleaseJohn Channer from RMargiotta@aol.com Wed Sep 23 19:13:54 1998 Subject: Interesting post on VFS Bulletin Board Some fellow claims to have Nat Uslan's milling machine and some of hisculms.If any one is interested, follow this link: http://www.flyshop.com/Bulletin/Rod_Messages/2352.html --Rich from Rodsofcane@aol.com Wed Sep 23 19:15:00 1998 Subject: Re: and now this.... I have been on the list for about six months now, and have remained in thebackground for the most part. I am new to rod building and find most ofwhatis on this list to be somewhat informative, although a lot of the messagesaredeleted due to B.S. about someone's thought of heaven or hell or whatever.But, the ones that advertise there products and or services end up beingdeleted without even looking at them. Although I have bought a binder fromaperson on the list and did not know he sold binders, a friend told me! In myopinion, life is to short to be worrying about who is selling or marketwhat!This is about the persuit of happiness, and a hobby and if someone wishestosell/market their goods and I get good service or product from that, so beit.get over it and on with more important issues. Kent K. AndersonNashville, TN from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Sep 23 19:47:11 1998 boundary="_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862832=_=_=_"Subject: Re: Frazier book --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862832=_=_=_ Davythat is a newer addition of the classic - I have a copy of the firsteditioncirc 1912 that I got a few years ago for about $35 - take it from there. Chris --Original Message Text--- Hi All! Hey, does anybody know anything about a book by Perry Frazier calledAmateurRodmaking? It was published (printed?) in 1947 and is up for auction on the eBay thingy. Auctionends this evening. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=30783390 Seems like I've heard something about this but, as with other rodmakingmaterialsunknown to me before I started, I've blocked it from my "mind". Thought somebody might be interested. Davy --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862832=_=_=_ Davythat is a newer addition of the classic - I have a copy of the firsteditioncirc 1912 that I got a few years ago for about $35 - take it fromthere. Chris --Original Message Text---From: DavidDate: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:30:30 - 0700 Hi All! Hey, does anybody know anything about a book by Perry Frazier calledAmateur Rodmaking? It was published (printed?) in 1947 andis up cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=30783390 Seems like I've heard something about this but, as with other rodmakingmaterialsunknown to me before I started, I've blocked it from my "mind". Thought somebody might be interested. Davy --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862832=_=_=_-- from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Sep 23 19:52:13 1998 Subject: Re: no more planing TerryThanks for getting back on the list - it was getting Dull - so areyou going to fill us in on your mill - send a picture or is it a big secret?I am curious as to what solutions you came up with - remember we all are getting older and need to think about such things - I have toldmy wife which rod and reel I wanted to be buried with and even tied upa selection of flies for the occasion - much to her horror. Chris On Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:27:40 -0400, Terence Ackland wrote: AJ, how are you?good to see you lurking around the list and trying to bring a little sanity.I am ready to roll now. I had to get out of hand planing, even the partialplaning I was doing. The old body does not like it anymore and I have beengetting these recurring nightmares of me standing by my planing formwhen I ameighty like those pictures of poor old Garrison in his book!I have been avoiding L's emails and could not bring myself to answer hisfaxes, I know I have let a lot of customers down but I knew which way Iwantedmy rodmaking to go.I have never really considered myself as a rodmaker, hand planing is notreally rodmaking to to my way of thinking.Terry A.J.Thramer wrote: Terence Ackland wrote: Hi, hand planed in any way. The strips were machined from start to finish.I have been determined to get out of hand planing even if quittingrodmaking was the only alternative I had left. I basically stoppedbuilding rods about 2 years ago because I wanted to concentrate onbuilding equipment which I could not do with orders to fill.I could foresee an increase in demand for can rods that could not besatisfied by hand planers. I did not want to resort to the oldtechnology and copy a beveler but decided to try to build a machinethatincorporates some of the advances of the present.The old bevelers created lots of scrap which I did not want. I stilllike the idea of all the strips coming from the same culmI am not into collector or museum quality rods (whatever they are) Iwant to be in a position to get some rods out there so anglers can seethem and buy them of the shelf.Terry Ackland Congratulations Terry!!, Missed your membership on the list. My beveler is now working also, itwas important to build the rod out of a single stick and I ran into thesame problem , too much waste with the old methods. I look forward tosending people your way when my rods action is too slow. Be preparedforan incredible backlog of orders when you sell fishing rods instead ofmodern collectibles :)A.J. from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed Sep 23 20:02:37 1998 Subject: Address Help I apologize for the bother But -Well I locked the old hard drive -Unfortunately I lost many things - including all my e-mail addresses - Soforall those You know hoos - please send a letter or stamps - Alex I lost yourlast Letter please resent - I have time to write again from fquinchat@locl.net Wed Sep 23 20:31:09 1998 (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA12473 for ;Wed, 23 Sep Subject: Cork Has anyone got a source for cork in small quantities, say 30 pcs? Dennis from dpeaston@wzrd.com Wed Sep 23 21:13:33 1998 mail.wzrd.com(8.9.1/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA07720; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:07:55 -0400 Subject: Re: and now this.... At 04:13 PM 9/23/98 -0400, Terence Ackland wrote:There has always been comercial plugs on this list, from books, videos,binders, ovens etc. I guess what is tolerated is dependant on who isgetting the plug and by whom.I find the the commercial aspect of the list the most informative, Iwould not have tried a new supplier of cane had there not beendiscussions on quality and delivery. I would not in fact have knownthere was an alternative supplier as I do not have any other contactwith rodmaking.But for the reports on various suppliers and equipment most of thecontributions are generally pretty anaemic.Terry AcklandThe above is only my opinion and yours may very well differ We may not differ as much as we think. Most of us do not object to heoccasional plug. However, doing a complete transaction on he list is quiteanother thing. Educational radio and TV (non commercial) allowssponsorship allowed in these plugs Who, What and where. Prices and comparison withother products etc. are not allowed. I do not know what WUSTL requires,butit seems that some sort of compromise along the lines of educationalbroadcasting might be on the right track. Many of the ventures that are"advertised" on the Rodmakers Listserve are not truly commercial. Are allof he "advertisers" intending to make a profit or are they providing aservice and breaking even (maybe even losing money)? Cutting out the on-list transactions (and private conversations) would goalong way toward solving our little problem. Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Sep 23 21:49:26 1998 (modemcable233.174.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: no more planing Chris, would you care to post the taper for that very special burial rod? Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: no more planing TerryThanks for getting back on the list - it was getting Dull - so areyou going to fill us in on your mill - send a picture or is it a big secret?I am curious as to what solutions you came up with - rememberwe all are getting older and need to think about such things - I have toldmy wife which rod and reel I wanted to be buried with and even tied upa selection of flies for the occasion - much to her horror. Chris On Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:27:40 -0400, Terence Ackland wrote: AJ, how are you?good to see you lurking around the list and trying to bring a littlesanity.I am ready to roll now. I had to get out of hand planing, even the partialplaning I was doing. The old body does not like it anymore and I have beengetting these recurring nightmares of me standing by my planing formwhen Iameighty like those pictures of poor old Garrison in his book!I have been avoiding L's emails and could not bring myself to answer hisfaxes, I know I have let a lot of customers down but I knew which way Iwantedmy rodmaking to go.I have never really considered myself as a rodmaker, hand planing is notreally rodmaking to to my way of thinking.Terry A.J.Thramer wrote: Terence Ackland wrote: Hi, hand planed in any way. The strips were machined from start to finish.I have been determined to get out of hand planing even if quittingrodmaking was the only alternative I had left. I basically stoppedbuilding rods about 2 years ago because I wanted to concentrate onbuilding equipment which I could not do with orders to fill.I could foresee an increase in demand for can rods that could not besatisfied by hand planers. I did not want to resort to the oldtechnology and copy a beveler but decided to try to build a machinethatincorporates some of the advances of the present.The old bevelers created lots of scrap which I did not want. I stilllike the idea of all the strips coming from the same culmI am not into collector or museum quality rods (whatever they are) Iwant to be in a position to get some rods out there so anglers can seethem and buy them of the shelf.Terry Ackland Congratulations Terry!!, Missed your membership on the list. My beveler is now working also, itwas important to build the rod out of a single stick and I ran into thesame problem , too much waste with the old methods. I look forward tosending people your way when my rods action is too slow. Be preparedforan incredible backlog of orders when you sell fishing rods instead ofmodern collectibles :)A.J. from MasjC1@aol.com Wed Sep 23 21:56:02 1998 Subject: Power Fibers This weekend I split the cane for my third rod. In selecting the culm to useImeasured the power fibers at the butt end at .150". At the butt end of thetipthey measured .200". I always thought that the the power fibers werethickerin the butt and became thinner toward the tip. Has anyone else observedthepattern I'm describing? Mark Cole from KDLoup@aol.com Wed Sep 23 22:57:51 1998 Subject: Re: Frazier book Davy,I own a copy of the Frazier book if you have any questions. Although agood read, I don't think that you will learn anything new. Kurt Loup from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed Sep 23 23:02:35 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Thu,24Sep 1998 00:10:55 -0400 Subject: Instructors I was speaking with a professor and we were both wondering how many people out here in web land are teaching rod making classes? You can e-mail me off the list since I assume there will be bunch of responses.Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Thu Sep 24 07:21:46 1998 IAA02099 Subject: Polishing Varnish I purchase many old rods that have beat up varnish. Can any one give meadvise or suggestions on how to polish the varnish? Considering all the e:mails going around on advertising, brand names of thematerials would be of help.Al Hanzich732-878-6567 from Nodewrrior@aol.com Thu Sep 24 07:40:58 1998 Subject: Re: Cork Dennis,Coren's rod and reel in Chicago (773)631-5202 has a supply of good stuffinstock. I used to get corks one rod at a time before jumping into a bulkorderand always found they had very good to excellent cork available. Rob Hoffhines from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Thu Sep 24 07:46:06 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Thu,24Sep 1998 08:54:25 -0400 Subject: Instructors II So the question was loosely defined and needs to be a bit more specific. My prof. and I were discussing an accurate way to measure market size and growth in addition to total expenditures. I am currently in a mkt. research class. Anyhow, we were thinking a good initial indicator may (along with a bunch of others) may include the number of rodmakers teaching classes on a semi-regular basis as a source of income. Class sizes, frequency, avg. amount spent by student on class and tools will all be helpful. I would love to do my capstone work on something I enjoy, but there is no primary/secondary research available. Thanks again.Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from ragnarig@integrityol.com Thu Sep 24 08:58:36 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A21D2800276; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 07:07:25 PDT Subject: Re: Cork Speaking of bulk orders, my local supplier has lost their source (orsomething) and I am now looking for a place to get premium rings. Since Imake so few rods these days, Maybe I could split an order with somebodyelsewho doesn't need a thousand-lot? Thanks,Davy -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Cork Dennis,Coren's rod and reel in Chicago (773)631-5202 has a supply of good stuffinstock. I used to get corks one rod at a time before jumping into a bulkorderand always found they had very good to excellent cork available. Rob Hoffhines from dmcfall@ODYSSEE.NET Thu Sep 24 09:02:43 1998 Subject: Re: Polishing Varnish At 08:21 AM 9/24/98 -0400, you wrote:I purchase many old rods that have beat up varnish. Can any one give meadvise or suggestions on how to polish the varnish? Considering all the e:mails going around on advertising, brand names ofthematerials would be of help.Al Hanzich732-878-6567 UI would suggest that you get a copy of Michael Sinclair's "BAMBOO RODRESTORATION HANDBOOK". This contain info on the polishing of varnish andrefinishing old bamboo rods. Dave from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Thu Sep 24 09:14:37 1998 KAA27238 Subject: RE: Polishing Varnish Thanks Dave. I have a copy but can not find a supplier here in Pa., or NJwho sells the two items. I currently use pumice or rottestone(?) withmineral oil. Comes out OK but not really great. Could be doing somethingwrong.Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, September 24, 1998 10:03 AM Subject: Re: Polishing Varnish At 08:21 AM 9/24/98 -0400, you wrote:I purchase many old rods that have beat up varnish. Canany one give meadvise or suggestions on how to polish the varnish? Considering all the e:mails going around on advertising,brand names of thematerials would be of help.Al Hanzich732-878-6567 UI would suggest that you get a copy of Michael Sinclair's"BAMBOO RODRESTORATION HANDBOOK". This contain info on the polishing ofvarnish andrefinishing old bamboo rods. Dave from gwr@seanet.com Thu Sep 24 09:36:48 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA05073 for; Thu, Subject: Re: Instructors II/Publications boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01BDE78E.51BC2920" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BDE78E.51BC2920 Hi Jon, I don't know of any paid instructors out my way (though I suspect thereare some), but I thought of two leads that might net you some primarydataon industry growth. First, note the number of books that have beenpublished in the last several years. Self-published endeavors are onething, but I would think that recognized "sporting" publishers would behesitant to spend cash on cane if they didn't have a pretty good idea of themarket. I'd put a call in to each relevant publisher and ask around aboutpolls or other research that they conducted or purchased. Less scientificopining could certainly be garnered from those who have self-publishedandthis could provide some anecdotal back-up to the balance of your report. Onthe other hand, consider Margaret Mead and her ethnographies; you can turnany amount of opining into recognized & celebrated research if you includesex as a component of your work.Second, AFFTA (American Fly Fishing Trade Assoc.) recently conductedandpublished a massive research report on the fly fishing retail market. Itcosts $400.00 for non-members - however, if you only requested dataconcerning cane, they might cut you a deal on a chapter or two (if such achapter exists). Alternately, your University Library might foot the entirebill if they thought the volume was requisite for a senior's research.Contact: Rori Homme (administrator) at (360) 636-0708. Good luck. If you complete your report on cane, I for one would beinterested in reading it. Heck, it would probably qualify for inclusion onthe Rodmaker's web site. Best regards, Russ SNIP...Iwould love to do my capstone work on something I enjoy, but thereis no primary/secondary research available. Thanks again.Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277- 4510http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BDE78E.51BC2920 name="Golden Witch Rods.vcf" filename="Golden Witch Rods.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDN:Gooding;John;R.FN:Golden Witch RodsORG:Golden Witch RodsTITLE:Rod MakerTEL;WORK;VOICE:(425) 787- 6599TEL;PAGER;VOICE:noneTEL;WORK;FAX:noneADR;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A;Lynnwood;WA;98037;USALABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A=3D0D=3D0ALynnwood, WA =98037=3D0D=3D0AUSAURL:http://www.goldenwitch.comEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:gwr@seanet.comEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BDE78E.51BC2920-- from tom@cet-inc.com Thu Sep 24 10:22:10 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Polishing Varnish AlGeorge Maurer, from Shoemakersville, PA has a great three part polishingsystem. You may want to check with him. Dr.bamboo@aol.com He may notanswerpromptly, I think he is in Maine this week.Tom Whittle-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Polishing Varnish Thanks Dave. I have a copy but can not find a supplier here in Pa., or NJwho sells the two items. I currently use pumice or rottestone(?) withmineral oil. Comes out OK but not really great. Could be doing somethingwrong.Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, September 24, 1998 10:03 AM Subject: Re: Polishing Varnish At 08:21 AM 9/24/98 -0400, you wrote:I purchase many old rods that have beat up varnish. Canany one give meadvise or suggestions on how to polish the varnish? Considering all the e:mails going around on advertising,brand names of thematerials would be of help.Al Hanzich732-878-6567 UI would suggest that you get a copy of Michael Sinclair's"BAMBOO RODRESTORATION HANDBOOK". This contain info on the polishing ofvarnish andrefinishing old bamboo rods. Dave from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Sep 24 10:49:53 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Drip tube (drain type) Group,Why not try a tube of greater diameter? Works for me-you just needmorefinish material.Hank. from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Thu Sep 24 11:20:39 1998 MAA18966 Subject: RE: Polishing Varnish Thanks Tom!Will contact him. Have a few of his Sweet Water Rods. Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, September 24, 1998 11:24 AM Subject: Re: Polishing Varnish AlGeorge Maurer, from Shoemakersville, PA has a great threepart polishingsystem. You may want to check with him. Dr.bamboo@aol.comHe may not answerpromptly, I think he is in Maine this week.Tom Whittle-----Original Message-----From: Hanzich, Al (MLPT) Date: Thursday, September 24, 1998 10:17 AMSubject: RE: Polishing Varnish Thanks Dave. I have a copy but can not find a supplierhere in Pa., or NJwho sells the two items. I currently use pumice orrottestone(?) withmineral oil. Comes out OK but not really great. Could bedoing somethingwrong.Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, September 24, 1998 10:03 AM Subject: Re: Polishing Varnish At 08:21 AM 9/24/98 -0400, you wrote:I purchase many old rods that have beat up varnish. Canany one give meadvise or suggestions on how to polish the varnish? Considering all the e:mails going around on advertising,brand names of thematerials would be of help.Al Hanzich732-878-6567 UI would suggest that you get a copy of Michael Sinclair's"BAMBOO RODRESTORATION HANDBOOK". This contain info on the polishingofvarnish andrefinishing old bamboo rods. Dave from gwr@seanet.com Thu Sep 24 12:09:47 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA17954 for; Thu, Subject: Off-list list boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0045_01BDE7A4.00E98A40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01BDE7A4.00E98A40 Hi guys, I'm not trying to get in the last word on commercialism now that thatthread is dying down; it just took a few days of correspondence with JonLintvet & Mike Biondo as well as a note to Jerry Foster for me to decide onthe best course of action for my company. First, for those who have signed onto Jon Lintvet's "productsnotification list," I will be giving his service a try in the coming months.His service could prove a boon to everyone involved and will certainly cutdown on the commercial posts to the list. Please contact Jon off-list formore information. Second, I have written to Jerry Foster with a couple of updates for hisRodmaker's web site. I will continue to do so in the future and will leaveit to Jerry's discretion to make on-list posts concerning changes to thecommercial portion of the web site. Third, at Mike Biondo's suggestion, I will build & maintain an off-listlist of folks who are interested in Golden Witch's cane related news. Inaddition to product news, this list will receive special offers that willnot be advertised in print media. Our recent sale on Agates & Agatines isaprime example - by the time I wrote the print ads & press releases thatyou'll see in forthcoming publications, all the agates were gone withhundreds having been snapped up by list members. For the time being, therest of the cane building world will only hear about our agatine guides(andthose at slightly higher prices). Also, members of this list will receiveadvance notification of new products along with a short window ofopportunity to purchase those products at a discount. Web advertising isexceedingly inexpensive (my time being the only current investment, thecomputer long paid for). This allows me to advertise small lots and/orgiveprice breaks that I cannot afford to make available through printadvertising. Interested cane builders may join or resign the Golden Witchlist at their leisure. To join, please email gwr@seanet.com with a notethat you'd like to sign onto the gwr cane list. To protect The List fromwasted bandwidth, I can only accept new members who contact GoldenWitchdirectly. Thanks everybody for your comments and cooperation in resolving thisissue. I look forward to working with with many of you, off-list, in thecoming years. Best, Russ On the other hand Russ Gooding brings up a good point...how best to let thelist know that he some great new tool that in his opinion we all need. I see it come across the list. I would though be more than happy to add my name to Russ' (as well asanyother of our several vendor's) private mailing list of folks that want tobe notified of sales, new products, etc. Do you guys have such a mailinglist? If so please feel free to add my name. I know it's a bit of work tomaintain an email mailing list (gawd, believe me...*I know* :-) but, it isa way to reach the folks that are interested in being reached withouthaving to use the list for such purposes. Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01BDE7A4.00E98A40 name="Golden Witch Rods.vcf" filename="Golden Witch Rods.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDN:Gooding;John;R.FN:Golden Witch RodsORG:Golden Witch RodsTITLE:Rod MakerTEL;WORK;VOICE:(425) 787- 6599TEL;PAGER;VOICE:noneTEL;WORK;FAX:noneADR;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A;Lynnwood;WA;98037;USALABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A=3D0D=3D0ALynnwood, WA =98037=3D0D=3D0AUSAURL:http://www.goldenwitch.comEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:gwr@seanet.comEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01BDE7A4.00E98A40-- from watson@cape-consult.co.uk Thu Sep 24 14:51:44 1998 (BST) Subject: Re: commercialism Gentlemen, and I choose this word deliberately as from what I see of thecontributors this is an apt description.I have followed with interest and some concern the somewhat barbedcommentsthat have flown regarding this issue of commercialism.The impression that I have got since signing on earlier this year is thatthe list contains a group of contributors who are genuine in their adviceand partake due to their true love of bamboo. Like Richard I am a novice,starting at the restoration end but certainly hoping to split a culm sometime in the future and without this freedom of information I would havebeenunable to achieve the results that I have with the restoration/re-builds.In the UK there are very very few people making rods and those who do arenoted for their secretive and un co- operative ways. They are happy toremove very significant sums of money from your pocket but are not likelytodiscuss in any detail the product that you wish to buy (I have tried).I agree that it would be somewhat tasteless to see full blown adverts onthelist but I am sure that those who supply would be happy to be contacted ormake contact off the list.Please, please do not curb the free flow of information on the list as thiswill only serve to steadily close the group of people ( ie the pool ofknowledge) involved to a similar situation to that in the UK. If there arethose on the list who profit from advice so be it - at least the art ofrodmaking stands a chance of continuing with the quality tools andmaterialsrequired to do so rather than it becoming like so many other crafts, athing of the past, something we remember our grandfathers doing that islostto future generations.Thanks for listening.-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: commercialism Me too. I'm very new to this art form. Have yet to attend a gathering sothis list along with a couple of books are the only source of information Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 1998 9:00 PM Subject: Re: commercialism Not to rock the boat....but I heard about Andy through thelist....glad I did. On 22 Sep 98, at 17:13, Robert Cochrane wrote: hot fly. Anyone doubting that statement should inquire how rodmakersfoundout about A. Royer. keep commercialism out rcochran@cadvision.com Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from eestlow@srminc.com Thu Sep 24 15:18:41 1998 86256689.00703489 ; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 15:25:34 -0500 Subject: Re: commercialism Elloquently put, Tim. Quite likely this thread has about run its course,but I would like to echo Tim's comments. While I respect the Listguy's intent, smother him with thanks and highpraise for even running this list, and will therefore ultimately defer tohim and his list administrative duties and obligations, I too am concernedabout open communication. I've seen (and, yes, participated from time totime) in banal threads about catching bats on your fly at dark, weirdnamesof places, Louisiana coffee, etc. I've also seen some meanspirited unveiledinsults of rods made of things other than cane and people takingcheapshotsat others who are only guilty of having a different perspective or being ata different point on the learning curve. In my mind, these are the trueenemies of the list, not Jon, or Dave, or Andy, or the Demarests, or, or,or - mentioning that they have what some listmember is looking for. I think professionalism and ethics of those involved will keep mostresponses of a business nature off list. I see many requests of it weekly.I think the many responses to this thread about, "Gee, who do I tell aboutthat batch of pre-fire Leonards I just saw at a garage sale?" and, "Gee, Imake reel seats in my spare bedroom, trying to pay for my fly fishinghobby." are well placed. This list is about rodmaking hobbyistsbootstrapping their way into the craft. Knowing who has what available,whether for sale or no, profit or no, is a big part of that. I'll get off my soapbox now and echo the Listguy's plea (after disobeyinghim) to get the discussion back to rodmaking. Thanks for the forum. Best regards,Ed Estlow from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Sep 24 15:42:43 1998 0500 Subject: Re: Power Fibers Mark,How close to a node is each section being measured? Sometimes if Imeasurewithin an inch or two of a node the fibers seem larger than they really are.Harry MasjC1@aol.com wrote: .... I always thought that the the power fibers were thickerin the butt and became thinner toward the tip. Has anyone else observedthepattern I'm describing? Mark Cole from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Sep 24 16:38:34 1998 Subject: Re: Instructors II Jon -give me a call - I've done the study Wayne from bdcreek@grand-rapids.crosswinds.net Thu Sep 24 17:34:40 1998 (envelope- from bdcreek@grand-rapids.crosswinds.net) Subject: Re: Instructors Hey!Don't answer this off list (at least not exclusively). I imaginelots of us are interested in the answer. Brian Jon Lintvet wrote: I was speaking with a professor and we were both wondering howmany people out here in web land are teaching rod makingclasses? You can e-mail me off the list since I assume there willbe bunch of responses.Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277- 4510http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Sep 24 18:00:58 1998 Subject: Re: no more planing Chris,I have given up 2 years of fly rod income and spent quite a few bucksbesides onmachine tools to start developing my ideas. I also have quite an expensivescrapdrawer! Do you honestly expect me to give away my hard work to all listmembers,gratis?I deduced when I first started building rods that it was impossible tomake aliving as rodmaker hand planing. I also deduced that the future was not inthe$1200 rod either, but in the $700- $800 rod. There is an enormous marketout theredeveloping just as A.J and myself had predicted and have been positioningourselvesto fill.Much of the so called Commercialism mud slinging on this list is not aboutadvertising but professional jealousy. Most of you guys are chasing thesame tinymarket of high priced rod buyers and the list of builders that think theirrodsareworth 1kilobuck plus is growing every year.We were laughed at a couple of years ago on this list, told that productionrodwere garbage compared to a hand planed masterpiece when we suggestedthatproduction rods were, perhaps, a consideration for a growing market.Perhaps A.J and I will be smoking the big cigar after all.Terry Chris Bogart wrote: TerryThanks for getting back on the list - it was getting Dull - so areyou going to fill us in on your mill - send a picture or is it a big secret?I am curious as to what solutions you came up with - rememberwe all are getting older and need to think about such things - I have toldmy wife which rod and reel I wanted to be buried with and even tied upa selection of flies for the occasion - much to her horror. Chris On Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:27:40 -0400, Terence Ackland wrote: AJ, how are you?good to see you lurking around the list and trying to bring a littlesanity.I am ready to roll now. I had to get out of hand planing, even the partialplaning I was doing. The old body does not like it anymore and I havebeengetting these recurring nightmares of me standing by my planing formwhen I ameighty like those pictures of poor old Garrison in his book!I have been avoiding L's emails and could not bring myself to answer hisfaxes, I know I have let a lot of customers down but I knew which way Iwantedmy rodmaking to go.I have never really considered myself as a rodmaker, hand planing is notreally rodmaking to to my way of thinking.Terry A.J.Thramer wrote: Terence Ackland wrote: Hi, hand planed in any way. The strips were machined from start tofinish.I have been determined to get out of hand planing even if quittingrodmaking was the only alternative I had left. I basically stoppedbuilding rods about 2 years ago because I wanted to concentrate onbuilding equipment which I could not do with orders to fill.I could foresee an increase in demand for can rods that could not besatisfied by hand planers. I did not want to resort to the oldtechnology and copy a beveler but decided to try to build a machinethatincorporates some of the advances of the present.The old bevelers created lots of scrap which I did not want. I stilllike the idea of all the strips coming from the same culmI am not into collector or museum quality rods (whatever they are) Iwant to be in a position to get some rods out there so anglers canseethem and buy them of the shelf.Terry Ackland Congratulations Terry!!, Missed your membership on the list. My beveler is now working also, itwas important to build the rod out of a single stick and I ran into thesame problem , too much waste with the old methods. I look forwardtosending people your way when my rods action is too slow. Be preparedforan incredible backlog of orders when you sell fishing rods instead ofmodern collectibles :)A.J. from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Sep 24 18:20:20 1998 (modemcable233.174.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: no more planing Hi Terry, Any place in Montreal I might be able to see one of these new rods? Your neighbour down highway 20, Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: no more planing Chris,I have given up 2 years of fly rod income and spent quite a few bucksbesides onmachine tools to start developing my ideas. I also have quite an expensivescrapdrawer! Do you honestly expect me to give away my hard work to all listmembers,gratis?I deduced when I first started building rods that it was impossible tomakealiving as rodmaker hand planing. I also deduced that the future was not inthe$1200 rod either, but in the $700-$800 rod. There is an enormous marketouttheredeveloping just as A.J and myself had predicted and have been positioningourselvesto fill.Much of the so called Commercialism mud slinging on this list is not aboutadvertising but professional jealousy. Most of you guys are chasing thesametinymarket of high priced rod buyers and the list of builders that think theirrods areworth 1kilobuck plus is growing every year.We were laughed at a couple of years ago on this list, told that productionrodwere garbage compared to a hand planed masterpiece when we suggestedthatproduction rods were, perhaps, a consideration for a growing market.Perhaps A.J and I will be smoking the big cigar after all.Terry Chris Bogart wrote: TerryThanks for getting back on the list - it was getting Dull - so areyou going to fill us in on your mill - send a picture or is it a bigsecret?I am curious as to what solutions you came up with - rememberwe all are getting older and need to think about such things - I have toldmy wife which rod and reel I wanted to be buried with and even tied upa selection of flies for the occasion - much to her horror. Chris On Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:27:40 -0400, Terence Ackland wrote: AJ, how are you?good to see you lurking around the list and trying to bring a littlesanity.I am ready to roll now. I had to get out of hand planing, even thepartialplaning I was doing. The old body does not like it anymore and I havebeengetting these recurring nightmares of me standing by my planing formwhenI ameighty like those pictures of poor old Garrison in his book!I have been avoiding L's emails and could not bring myself to answer hisfaxes, I know I have let a lot of customers down but I knew which way Iwantedmy rodmaking to go.I have never really considered myself as a rodmaker, hand planing is notreally rodmaking to to my way of thinking.Terry A.J.Thramer wrote: Terence Ackland wrote: Hi, hand planed in any way. The strips were machined from start tofinish.I have been determined to get out of hand planing even if quittingrodmaking was the only alternative I had left. I basically stoppedbuilding rods about 2 years ago because I wanted to concentrate onbuilding equipment which I could not do with orders to fill.I could foresee an increase in demand for can rods that could not besatisfied by hand planers. I did not want to resort to the oldtechnology and copy a beveler but decided to try to build a machinethatincorporates some of the advances of the present.The old bevelers created lots of scrap which I did not want. I stilllike the idea of all the strips coming from the same culmI am not into collector or museum quality rods (whatever they are) Iwant to be in a position to get some rods out there so anglers canseethem and buy them of the shelf.Terry Ackland Congratulations Terry!!, Missed your membership on the list. My beveler is now working also, itwas important to build the rod out of a single stick and I ran into thesame problem , too much waste with the old methods. I look forwardtosending people your way when my rods action is too slow. Be preparedforan incredible backlog of orders when you sell fishing rods instead ofmodern collectibles :)A.J. from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Sep 24 18:38:02 1998 Subject: RE: no more planing RichardThen how would I say that I will take it to the grave? ChrisOn Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:32:44 -0400, Richard Nantel wrote: Chris, would you care to post the taper for that very special burial rod? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, September 24, 1998 8:56 AM Subject: Re: no more planing TerryThanks for getting back on the list - it was getting Dull - so areyou going to fill us in on your mill - send a picture or is it a big secret?I am curious as to what solutions you came up with - rememberwe all are getting older and need to think about such things - I have toldmy wife which rod and reel I wanted to be buried with and even tied upa selection of flies for the occasion - much to her horror. Chris On Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:27:40 -0400, Terence Ackland wrote: AJ, how are you?good to see you lurking around the list and trying to bring a littlesanity.I am ready to roll now. I had to get out of hand planing, even the partialplaning I was doing. The old body does not like it anymore and I havebeengetting these recurring nightmares of me standing by my planing formwhen Iameighty like those pictures of poor old Garrison in his book!I have been avoiding L's emails and could not bring myself to answer hisfaxes, I know I have let a lot of customers down but I knew which way Iwantedmy rodmaking to go.I have never really considered myself as a rodmaker, hand planing is notreally rodmaking to to my way of thinking.Terry A.J.Thramer wrote: Terence Ackland wrote: Hi, hand planed in any way. The strips were machined from start tofinish.I have been determined to get out of hand planing even if quittingrodmaking was the only alternative I had left. I basically stoppedbuilding rods about 2 years ago because I wanted to concentrate onbuilding equipment which I could not do with orders to fill.I could foresee an increase in demand for can rods that could not besatisfied by hand planers. I did not want to resort to the oldtechnology and copy a beveler but decided to try to build a machinethatincorporates some of the advances of the present.The old bevelers created lots of scrap which I did not want. I stilllike the idea of all the strips coming from the same culmI am not into collector or museum quality rods (whatever they are) Iwant to be in a position to get some rods out there so anglers can seethem and buy them of the shelf.Terry Ackland Congratulations Terry!!, Missed your membership on the list. My beveler is now working also, itwas important to build the rod out of a single stick and I ran into thesame problem , too much waste with the old methods. I look forward tosending people your way when my rods action is too slow. Be preparedforan incredible backlog of orders when you sell fishing rods instead ofmodern collectibles :)A.J. from bdcreek@grand-rapids.crosswinds.net Thu Sep 24 18:47:16 1998 (envelope- from bdcreek@grand-rapids.crosswinds.net) Subject: Re: no more planing Terry-Best of luck. I think some diversity in the bamboo rod market can onlyhelpstrengthen bamboos place in the over all rod market.As to cigars, might I reccommend a Corona de Monica as beingappropriate forflyfishers?;^)Brian Terence Ackland wrote: Chris,I have given up 2 years of fly rod income and spent quite a few bucksbesidesonmachine tools to start developing my ideas. I also have quite anexpensive scrapdrawer! Do you honestly expect me to give away my hard work to alllistmembers,gratis?I deduced when I first started building rods that it was impossible tomake aliving as rodmaker hand planing. I also deduced that the future was not inthe$1200 rod either, but in the $700- $800 rod. There is an enormous marketouttheredeveloping just as A.J and myself had predicted and have beenpositioningourselvesto fill.Much of the so called Commercialism mud slinging on this list is notaboutadvertising but professional jealousy. Most of you guys are chasing thesametinymarket of high priced rod buyers and the list of builders that think theirrodsareworth 1kilobuck plus is growing every year.We were laughed at a couple of years ago on this list, told thatproduction rodwere garbage compared to a hand planed masterpiece when we suggestedthatproduction rods were, perhaps, a consideration for a growing market.Perhaps A.J and I will be smoking the big cigar after all.Terry Chris Bogart wrote: TerryThanks for getting back on the list - it was getting Dull - so areyou going to fill us in on your mill - send a picture or is it a bigsecret?I am curious as to what solutions you came up with - rememberwe all are getting older and need to think about such things - I havetoldmy wife which rod and reel I wanted to be buried with and even tied upa selection of flies for the occasion - much to her horror. Chris On Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:27:40 -0400, Terence Ackland wrote: AJ, how are you?good to see you lurking around the list and trying to bring a littlesanity.I am ready to roll now. I had to get out of hand planing, even thepartialplaning I was doing. The old body does not like it anymore and I havebeengetting these recurring nightmares of me standing by my planing formwhen Iameighty like those pictures of poor old Garrison in his book!I have been avoiding L's emails and could not bring myself to answerhisfaxes, I know I have let a lot of customers down but I knew which wayIwantedmy rodmaking to go.I have never really considered myself as a rodmaker, hand planing isnotreally rodmaking to to my way of thinking.Terry A.J.Thramer wrote: Terence Ackland wrote: Hi, hand planed in any way. The strips were machined from start tofinish.I have been determined to get out of hand planing even if quittingrodmaking was the only alternative I had left. I basically stoppedbuilding rods about 2 years ago because I wanted to concentrate onbuilding equipment which I could not do with orders to fill.I could foresee an increase in demand for can rods that could not besatisfied by hand planers. I did not want to resort to the oldtechnology and copy a beveler but decided to try to build a machinethatincorporates some of the advances of the present.The old bevelers created lots of scrap which I did not want. I stilllike the idea of all the strips coming from the same culmI am not into collector or museum quality rods (whatever they are)Iwant to be in a position to get some rods out there so anglers canseethem and buy them of the shelf.Terry Ackland Congratulations Terry!!, Missed your membership on the list. My beveler is now working also,itwas important to build the rod out of a single stick and I ran into thesame problem , too much waste with the old methods. I look forwardtosending people your way when my rods action is too slow. Beprepared foran incredible backlog of orders when you sell fishing rods instead ofmodern collectibles :)A.J. from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Sep 24 18:50:50 1998 Subject: Re: no more planing Richard,sorry , sold already, sent off to N. Carolina today. the buyer is a soap operastar, would you believe.Terry Richard Nantel wrote: Hi Terry, Any place in Montreal I might be able to see one of these new rods? Your neighbour down highway 20, Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu AcklandSent: Thursday, September 24, 1998 7:02 PM Subject: Re: no more planing Chris,I have given up 2 years of fly rod income and spent quite a few bucksbesides onmachine tools to start developing my ideas. I also have quite anexpensivescrapdrawer! Do you honestly expect me to give away my hard work to alllistmembers,gratis?I deduced when I first started building rods that it was impossible tomakealiving as rodmaker hand planing. I also deduced that the future was not inthe$1200 rod either, but in the $700-$800 rod. There is an enormous marketouttheredeveloping just as A.J and myself had predicted and have beenpositioningourselvesto fill.Much of the so called Commercialism mud slinging on this list is notaboutadvertising but professional jealousy. Most of you guys are chasing thesametinymarket of high priced rod buyers and the list of builders that think theirrods areworth 1kilobuck plus is growing every year.We were laughed at a couple of years ago on this list, told thatproductionrodwere garbage compared to a hand planed masterpiece when we suggestedthatproduction rods were, perhaps, a consideration for a growing market.Perhaps A.J and I will be smoking the big cigar after all.Terry Chris Bogart wrote: TerryThanks for getting back on the list - it was getting Dull - so areyou going to fill us in on your mill - send a picture or is it a bigsecret?I am curious as to what solutions you came up with - rememberwe all are getting older and need to think about such things - I havetoldmy wife which rod and reel I wanted to be buried with and even tied upa selection of flies for the occasion - much to her horror. Chris On Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:27:40 -0400, Terence Ackland wrote: AJ, how are you?good to see you lurking around the list and trying to bring a littlesanity.I am ready to roll now. I had to get out of hand planing, even thepartialplaning I was doing. The old body does not like it anymore and I havebeengetting these recurring nightmares of me standing by my planing formwhenI ameighty like those pictures of poor old Garrison in his book!I have been avoiding L's emails and could not bring myself to answerhisfaxes, I know I have let a lot of customers down but I knew which wayIwantedmy rodmaking to go.I have never really considered myself as a rodmaker, hand planing isnotreally rodmaking to to my way of thinking.Terry A.J.Thramer wrote: Terence Ackland wrote: Hi, hand planed in any way. The strips were machined from start tofinish.I have been determined to get out of hand planing even if quittingrodmaking was the only alternative I had left. I basically stoppedbuilding rods about 2 years ago because I wanted to concentrate onbuilding equipment which I could not do with orders to fill.I could foresee an increase in demand for can rods that could not besatisfied by hand planers. I did not want to resort to the oldtechnology and copy a beveler but decided to try to build a machinethatincorporates some of the advances of the present.The old bevelers created lots of scrap which I did not want. I stilllike the idea of all the strips coming from the same culmI am not into collector or museum quality rods (whatever they are)Iwant to be in a position to get some rods out there so anglers canseethem and buy them of the shelf.Terry Ackland Congratulations Terry!!, Missed your membership on the list. My beveler is now working also,itwas important to build the rod out of a single stick and I ran into thesame problem , too much waste with the old methods. I look forwardtosending people your way when my rods action is too slow. Bepreparedforan incredible backlog of orders when you sell fishing rods instead ofmodern collectibles :)A.J. from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Sep 24 19:18:38 1998 (modemcable233.174.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: no more planing Ok then, let me guess, if it's a one-piece rod, it has to be short enough tofit in the casket so that rules out seven footers... Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: no more planing RichardThen how would I say that I will take it to the grave? ChrisOn Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:32:44 -0400, Richard Nantel wrote: Chris, would you care to post the taper for that very special burial rod? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, September 24, 1998 8:56 AM Subject: Re: no more planing TerryThanks for getting back on the list - it was getting Dull - so areyou going to fill us in on your mill - send a picture or is it a bigsecret?I am curious as to what solutions you came up with - rememberwe all are getting older and need to think about such things - I have toldmy wife which rod and reel I wanted to be buried with and even tied upa selection of flies for the occasion - much to her horror. Chris On Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:27:40 -0400, Terence Ackland wrote: AJ, how are you?good to see you lurking around the list and trying to bring a littlesanity.I am ready to roll now. I had to get out of hand planing, even the partialplaning I was doing. The old body does not like it anymore and I havebeengetting these recurring nightmares of me standing by my planing formwhenIameighty like those pictures of poor old Garrison in his book!I have been avoiding L's emails and could not bring myself to answer hisfaxes, I know I have let a lot of customers down but I knew which way Iwantedmy rodmaking to go.I have never really considered myself as a rodmaker, hand planing is notreally rodmaking to to my way of thinking.Terry A.J.Thramer wrote: Terence Ackland wrote: Hi, hand planed in any way. The strips were machined from start tofinish.I have been determined to get out of hand planing even if quittingrodmaking was the only alternative I had left. I basically stoppedbuilding rods about 2 years ago because I wanted to concentrate onbuilding equipment which I could not do with orders to fill.I could foresee an increase in demand for can rods that could not besatisfied by hand planers. I did not want to resort to the oldtechnology and copy a beveler but decided to try to build a machinethatincorporates some of the advances of the present.The old bevelers created lots of scrap which I did not want. I stilllike the idea of all the strips coming from the same culmI am not into collector or museum quality rods (whatever they are) Iwant to be in a position to get some rods out there so anglers can seethem and buy them of the shelf.Terry Ackland Congratulations Terry!!, Missed your membership on the list. My beveler is now working also, itwas important to build the rod out of a single stick and I ran into thesame problem , too much waste with the old methods. I look forward tosending people your way when my rods action is too slow. Be preparedforan incredible backlog of orders when you sell fishing rods instead ofmodern collectibles :)A.J. from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Sep 24 19:22:35 1998 (modemcable233.174.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: no more planing I sure hope he doesn't smash the rod in a fit of fury when he discovers thathis wife is having an affair with his long-lost twin brother named Stone(orpossibly Jake or Rock) who recently returned from Columbia where he'sbeenheld by drug lords. These actors sometimes get caught up in there roles. Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: no more planing Richard,sorry , sold already, sent off to N. Carolina today. the buyer is a soapoperastar, would you believe.Terry Richard Nantel wrote: Hi Terry, Any place in Montreal I might be able to see one of these new rods? Your neighbour down highway 20, Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu AcklandSent: Thursday, September 24, 1998 7:02 PM Subject: Re: no more planing Chris,I have given up 2 years of fly rod income and spent quite a few bucksbesides onmachine tools to start developing my ideas. I also have quite anexpensivescrapdrawer! Do you honestly expect me to give away my hard work to alllistmembers,gratis?I deduced when I first started building rods that it was impossible tomakealiving as rodmaker hand planing. I also deduced that the future was not inthe$1200 rod either, but in the $700-$800 rod. There is an enormous marketouttheredeveloping just as A.J and myself had predicted and have beenpositioningourselvesto fill.Much of the so called Commercialism mud slinging on this list is notaboutadvertising but professional jealousy. Most of you guys are chasing thesametinymarket of high priced rod buyers and the list of builders that think theirrods areworth 1kilobuck plus is growing every year.We were laughed at a couple of years ago on this list, told thatproductionrodwere garbage compared to a hand planed masterpiece when we suggestedthatproduction rods were, perhaps, a consideration for a growing market.Perhaps A.J and I will be smoking the big cigar after all.Terry Chris Bogart wrote: TerryThanks for getting back on the list - it was getting Dull - soareyou going to fill us in on your mill - send a picture or is it a bigsecret?I am curious as to what solutions you came up with - rememberwe all are getting older and need to think about such things - I havetoldmy wife which rod and reel I wanted to be buried with and even tied upa selection of flies for the occasion - much to her horror. Chris On Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:27:40 -0400, Terence Ackland wrote: AJ, how are you?good to see you lurking around the list and trying to bring a littlesanity.I am ready to roll now. I had to get out of hand planing, even thepartialplaning I was doing. The old body does not like it anymore and I havebeengetting these recurring nightmares of me standing by my planing formwhenI ameighty like those pictures of poor old Garrison in his book!I have been avoiding L's emails and could not bring myself to answerhisfaxes, I know I have let a lot of customers down but I knew which wayIwantedmy rodmaking to go.I have never really considered myself as a rodmaker, hand planing isnotreally rodmaking to to my way of thinking.Terry A.J.Thramer wrote: Terence Ackland wrote: Hi, nothand planed in any way. The strips were machined from start tofinish.I have been determined to get out of hand planing even if quittingrodmaking was the only alternative I had left. I basically stoppedbuilding rods about 2 years ago because I wanted to concentrate onbuilding equipment which I could not do with orders to fill.I could foresee an increase in demand for can rods that could notbesatisfied by hand planers. I did not want to resort to the oldtechnology and copy a beveler but decided to try to build a machinethatincorporates some of the advances of the present.The old bevelers created lots of scrap which I did not want. Istilllike the idea of all the strips coming from the same culmI am not into collector or museum quality rods (whatever they are)Iwant to be in a position to get some rods out there so anglers canseethem and buy them of the shelf.Terry Ackland Congratulations Terry!!, Missed your membership on the list. My beveler is now working also,itwas important to build the rod out of a single stick and I ran intothesame problem , too much waste with the old methods. I look forwardtosending people your way when my rods action is too slow. Bepreparedforan incredible backlog of orders when you sell fishing rods instead ofmodern collectibles :)A.J. from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Sep 24 19:55:32 1998 Subject: RE: no more planing Terry Do you know where that big cigar has been lately? Chris were garbage compared to a hand planed masterpiece when we suggestedthatproduction rods were, perhaps, a consideration for a growing market.Perhaps A.J and I will be smoking the big cigar after all.Terry from ragnarig@integrityol.com Thu Sep 24 20:04:42 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id AE51165019C; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:13:53 PDT Subject: Re: no more planing Terry Although I can't see what you perceive as "professional jealousy" on thelist, I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Then again, I might not beable to see too well from my perspective. Having had my verydishearteningfling with both one- offs and "limited production" (not rods but similarproblems with markets etc.) it'll be a dry Winter in Seattle before I planon any income from my rodmaking hobby. My concern is that guys like you and A.J. may be into a market in whichyou're about to have some heavyweight company. With the renewedavailability of quality cane and a growing number of folks gettinginterested in bamboo rods, I think we may be seeing some of the big-timeplastic guys developing facilities to produce competition in just the pricerange you are talking about. In other words, they will fight you until theyare forced to join you. While I'm not too worried that the two of you, and maybe a few otherswith afollowing already developing, will be driven from the field in tatters, theAmerican market has always been deeply in love with big brand names andtheir cachet is hard to compete against. I think there's a real possibilitythat the attraction of mechanized planing and the hope of getting into "TheBigs" may simply lure a lot of makers into a battle they can't win. Comments? Davy-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: no more planing Chris,I have given up 2 years of fly rod income and spent quite a few bucksbesides onmachine tools to start developing my ideas. I also have quite an expensivescrapdrawer! Do you honestly expect me to give away my hard work to all listmembers,gratis?I deduced when I first started building rods that it was impossible tomake aliving as rodmaker hand planing. I also deduced that the future was not inthe$1200 rod either, but in the $700- $800 rod. There is an enormous marketouttheredeveloping just as A.J and myself had predicted and have been positioningourselvesto fill.Much of the so called Commercialism mud slinging on this list is notaboutadvertising but professional jealousy. Most of you guys are chasing thesame tinymarket of high priced rod buyers and the list of builders that think theirrods areworth 1kilobuck plus is growing every year.We were laughed at a couple of years ago on this list, told thatproductionrodwere garbage compared to a hand planed masterpiece when we suggestedthatproduction rods were, perhaps, a consideration for a growing market.Perhaps A.J and I will be smoking the big cigar after all.Terry Chris Bogart wrote: TerryThanks for getting back on the list - it was getting Dull - soareyou going to fill us in on your mill - send a picture or is it a bigsecret?I am curious as to what solutions you came up with - rememberwe all are getting older and need to think about such things - I havetoldmy wife which rod and reel I wanted to be buried with and even tied upa selection of flies for the occasion - much to her horror. Chris On Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:27:40 -0400, Terence Ackland wrote: AJ, how are you?good to see you lurking around the list and trying to bring a littlesanity.I am ready to roll now. I had to get out of hand planing, even thepartialplaning I was doing. The old body does not like it anymore and I havebeengetting these recurring nightmares of me standing by my planing formwhen I ameighty like those pictures of poor old Garrison in his book!I have been avoiding L's emails and could not bring myself to answerhisfaxes, I know I have let a lot of customers down but I knew which wayIwantedmy rodmaking to go.I have never really considered myself as a rodmaker, hand planing isnotreally rodmaking to to my way of thinking.Terry A.J.Thramer wrote: Terence Ackland wrote: Hi, hand planed in any way. The strips were machined from start tofinish.I have been determined to get out of hand planing even if quittingrodmaking was the only alternative I had left. I basically stoppedbuilding rods about 2 years ago because I wanted to concentrate onbuilding equipment which I could not do with orders to fill.I could foresee an increase in demand for can rods that could not besatisfied by hand planers. I did not want to resort to the oldtechnology and copy a beveler but decided to try to build a machinethatincorporates some of the advances of the present.The old bevelers created lots of scrap which I did not want. I stilllike the idea of all the strips coming from the same culmI am not into collector or museum quality rods (whatever they are)Iwant to be in a position to get some rods out there so anglers canseethem and buy them of the shelf.Terry Ackland Congratulations Terry!!, Missed your membership on the list. My beveler is now working also,itwas important to build the rod out of a single stick and I ran intothesame problem , too much waste with the old methods. I look forwardtosending people your way when my rods action is too slow. Bepreparedforan incredible backlog of orders when you sell fishing rods instead ofmodern collectibles :)A.J. from ragnarig@integrityol.com Thu Sep 24 20:45:22 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A7DA22701B4; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:54:34 PDT Subject: Re: Polishing Varnish Al Since many of the old rods were finished with spirit varnish (shellac) youmight try french-polishing them. Rub the finish real good with ethanolandcharge a pad... on second thought, you might try the Fine Woodworkingarchives or American Lutherie index for comprehensive articles on thesubject. Or contact me off-list for detailed descriptions. It takes somepractice but, once you get the process down, it's a great way to get areally slick finish that's in every way compatible with, and chemicallyindistinguishable from, the original finish. It's also just as prone towater and alcohol damage but hey... You have a very interesting address- are you overseas? On a boat,perhaps? Best of luck,Davy-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Polishing Varnish Thanks Dave. I have a copy but can not find a supplier here in Pa., or NJwho sells the two items. I currently use pumice or rottestone(?) withmineral oil. Comes out OK but not really great. Could be doing somethingwrong.Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, September 24, 1998 10:03 AM Subject: Re: Polishing Varnish At 08:21 AM 9/24/98 -0400, you wrote:I purchase many old rods that have beat up varnish. Canany one give meadvise or suggestions on how to polish the varnish? Considering all the e:mails going around on advertising,brand names of thematerials would be of help.Al Hanzich732-878-6567 UI would suggest that you get a copy of Michael Sinclair's"BAMBOO RODRESTORATION HANDBOOK". This contain info on the polishing ofvarnish andrefinishing old bamboo rods. Dave from rcurry@top.monad.net Thu Sep 24 20:57:21 1998 Subject: Re: Polishing Varnish David wrote: Al Since many of the old rods were finished with spirit varnish (shellac)youmight try french-polishing them. Davy,I've yet to see evidence of spirit varnish finishes on cane rods.Perhaps this was unique to builders in your area. Here in the Northeast,it is too damp for lac finishes to be used outdoors.Apart from the obvious problems with blushing from water, andlifting from spirit sodden hands (hey, all fishermen aren't teatotalers), thespirit varnishes were also brittle.I sure like the look of a French polish, though; I even enjoy applyingthem to furniture.Best regards,Reed from thramer@presys.com Thu Sep 24 21:08:16 1998 0000 Subject: Cigars I am partial to my ever present pipe but would be happy to consider aDunhill Churchill if pressed. A cigar named for a forthright buteloquent Brit seems appropriate.A.J.Thramer PS I will confess to favoring German tobacs for aromatic but no oneequals Dunhill for my favored English blends from thramer@presys.com Thu Sep 24 21:20:21 1998 0000 Subject: Big companies No way, no how are those big companies going to absorb the loss ofbuilding a product with real value. They are so used to making $500 flyrods for $40 and screwing the poor slob who buys into their smarmy hypeabout action and quality they would be laughed out of the cane marketovernight. Where would the talent come from? Tapers are easy, they can buy whatthey like and steal it easily enough but a good rodbuilder is slowlyformed after a hundred rods or so. Len Codella was blunt in saying thatT&T had to sell plastic to support the cane rods.There is a world of difference between a quality production rod and acheap rod. Quality in production rods call for standardization,efficientwork habits and a willingness to never compromise on what is important.It can not be purchased or made, the desire has to exist in your soul asmuch as any perfectionist hand planed masterpiece. The difference isthat one is a fishing rod and the other is a toy or 'investmentvehicle'. I prefer the former to the latter.A.J.Thramer from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Thu Sep 24 21:23:23 1998 with SMTP +0000 message Subject: Re: Cigars VAA11775 A.J., I had a really nice Ashton Churchill this past weekend. They're not hard tofind.Give one a try. I don't think you'll be disappointed! Enjoy, Dennis Haftel ----------I am partial to my ever present pipe but would be happy to consider aDunhill Churchill if pressed. A cigar named for a forthright buteloquent Brit seems appropriate.A.J.Thramer PS I will confess to favoring German tobacs for aromatic but no oneequals Dunhill for my favored English blends from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Sep 24 21:35:46 1998 Subject: Re: no more planing David,When you can roll a $2 piece of graphite cloth around a mandrel bake andcharge$600 I honestly do not believe that Mr. Sage could be bothered with cane. Infact nothing is bargain basement in fly fishing. Take reels, all made onN.Cmachine. Have they got more affordable? not that I have noticed.Cane will never take over from graphite, really, the performance is justnotthere for the average angler. The market will always be small but as Ihave saidbefore, if just 5% of fly fishermen decided that they would like a cane rodwewould all be back ordered for years.I t does not matter how mechanized you become in cane rodmaking therearecertain speeds and feeds that cannot be exceeded with small strips ofcane. Itwill always be a time consuming endeavour.A piece of machinery does not get tennis elbow, carpal tunnel, or just getgenerally pissed off with the repetition. That is the only difference. Itallowsyou to become more productive by taking some of the drudgery away butwhich everway you cut it, making cane rods take time.Terry David wrote: Terry Although I can't see what you perceive as "professional jealousy" on thelist, I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Then again, I might not beable to see too well from my perspective. Having had my verydishearteningfling with both one- offs and "limited production" (not rods but similarproblems with markets etc.) it'll be a dry Winter in Seattle before I planon any income from my rodmaking hobby. My concern is that guys like you and A.J. may be into a market in whichyou're about to have some heavyweight company. With the renewedavailability of quality cane and a growing number of folks gettinginterested in bamboo rods, I think we may be seeing some of the big-timeplastic guys developing facilities to produce competition in just thepricerange you are talking about. In other words, they will fight you untiltheyare forced to join you. While I'm not too worried that the two of you, and maybe a few otherswith afollowing already developing, will be driven from the field in tatters,theAmerican market has always been deeply in love with big brand namesandtheir cachet is hard to compete against. I think there's a real possibilitythat the attraction of mechanized planing and the hope of getting into"TheBigs" may simply lure a lot of makers into a battle they can't win. Comments? Davy-----Original Message-----From: Terence Ackland Date: Thursday, September 24, 1998 4:15 PMSubject: Re: no more planing Chris,I have given up 2 years of fly rod income and spent quite a few bucksbesides onmachine tools to start developing my ideas. I also have quite anexpensivescrapdrawer! Do you honestly expect me to give away my hard work to alllistmembers,gratis?I deduced when I first started building rods that it was impossible tomake aliving as rodmaker hand planing. I also deduced that the future was notinthe$1200 rod either, but in the $700-$800 rod. There is an enormousmarket outtheredeveloping just as A.J and myself had predicted and have beenpositioningourselvesto fill.Much of the so called Commercialism mud slinging on this list is notaboutadvertising but professional jealousy. Most of you guys are chasing thesame tinymarket of high priced rod buyers and the list of builders that think theirrods areworth 1kilobuck plus is growing every year.We were laughed at a couple of years ago on this list, told thatproductionrodwere garbage compared to a hand planed masterpiece when wesuggested thatproduction rods were, perhaps, a consideration for a growing market.>Perhaps A.J and I will be smoking the big cigar after all.Terry Chris Bogart wrote: TerryThanks for getting back on the list - it was getting Dull - soareyou going to fill us in on your mill - send a picture or is it a bigsecret?I am curious as to what solutions you came up with - rememberwe all are getting older and need to think about such things - I havetoldmy wife which rod and reel I wanted to be buried with and even tiedupa selection of flies for the occasion - much to her horror. Chris On Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:27:40 -0400, Terence Ackland wrote: AJ, how are you?good to see you lurking around the list and trying to bring a littlesanity.I am ready to roll now. I had to get out of hand planing, even thepartialplaning I was doing. The old body does not like it anymore and I havebeengetting these recurring nightmares of me standing by my planingformwhen I ameighty like those pictures of poor old Garrison in his book!I have been avoiding L's emails and could not bring myself to answerhisfaxes, I know I have let a lot of customers down but I knew whichway Iwantedmy rodmaking to go.I have never really considered myself as a rodmaker, hand planing isnotreally rodmaking to to my way of thinking.Terry A.J.Thramer wrote: Terence Ackland wrote: Hi, nothand planed in any way. The strips were machined from start tofinish.I have been determined to get out of hand planing even if quittingrodmaking was the only alternative I had left. I basically stoppedbuilding rods about 2 years ago because I wanted to concentrateonbuilding equipment which I could not do with orders to fill.I could foresee an increase in demand for can rods that could notbesatisfied by hand planers. I did not want to resort to the oldtechnology and copy a beveler but decided to try to build amachinethatincorporates some of the advances of the present.The old bevelers created lots of scrap which I did not want. I stilllike the idea of all the strips coming from the same culmI am not into collector or museum quality rods (whatever theyare) Iwant to be in a position to get some rods out there so anglers canseethem and buy them of the shelf.Terry Ackland Congratulations Terry!!, Missed your membership on the list. My beveler is now workingalso, itwas important to build the rod out of a single stick and I ran intothesame problem , too much waste with the old methods. I lookforward tosending people your way when my rods action is too slow. Bepreparedforan incredible backlog of orders when you sell fishing rods insteadofmodern collectibles :)A.J. from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Sep 24 21:44:56 1998 Subject: Re: no more planing As long as it never went past the band Chris and we dried it as perGarrisonsbook, it should still be ok.Terry Chris Bogart wrote: Terry Do you know where that big cigar has been lately? Chris were garbage compared to a hand planed masterpiece when wesuggested thatproduction rods were, perhaps, a consideration for a growing market.Perhaps A.J and I will be smoking the big cigar after all.Terry from ragnarig@integrityol.com Thu Sep 24 21:52:31 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A79A4E701DC; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 20:01:46 PDT Subject: Re: Polishing Varnish Reed I didn't say it was a good finish but, yes, at least one big company used iton their cheaper rods, unbelievable as it sounds. It's what I wouldcharacterize as the height of profit motivation. They didn't have the rapiddrying compounds prevalent today and oil takes too long for an outfit withaproduction schedule. Shellac dries almost instantly and gets the productout of the shop, so... -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Polishing Varnish David wrote: Al Since many of the old rods were finished with spirit varnish (shellac)youmight try french-polishing them.Davy,I've yet to see evidence of spirit varnish finishes on cane rods.Perhaps this was unique to builders in your area. Here in the Northeast,it is too damp for lac finishes to be used outdoors.Apart from the obvious problems with blushing from water, and lifting from spirit sodden hands (hey, all fishermen aren't teatotalers), thespirit varnishes were also brittle.I sure like the look of a French polish, though; I even enjoy applyingthem to furniture.Best regards,Reed from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Thu Sep 24 22:10:42 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Thu,24Sep 1998 23:18:49 -0400 Subject: Re: no more planing Wow....glad to have you back! from a business standpoint, there will always be a considerable market (relative to the overall size) for high ticket, one of a kind rods. Even at 700- 800, you are talking about a lot of money for a fishing rod. Production companies, from my perspective, were successful with one or maybe two rod owners. There was very little collect-ability issues with Monts or South Bends. These items, which were competing largely on price point, were over-whelmingly purchased by first time fisherman. I image the same holds true to date. While I have no doubt your rods (I have never seen one, hope to soon) are wonderful, bamboo purchasers are typically collectors in my experience. In fact, most of the guys I meet who purchase bamboo regularly fish with graphite. Good luck with your business endeavors. Maybe when I get out of school and get a job I can pick one up. Take care...Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Sep 24 22:40:14 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: no more planing I've suspected this too...in spite of the thread of, say, two months agospeculating that Orvis (who was somewhat automated) didn't even buildtheirown bamboo rods anymore. You probably need to be at least at the level ofmaking a minimum of 100 per taper, otherwise the buying public feels likethey are getting "prototypes". George Bourke -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: no more planing I deduced when I first started building rods that it was impossible tomake aliving as rodmaker hand planing. I also deduced that the future was not inthe$1200 rod either, but in the $700-$800 rod. There is an enormous marketouttheredeveloping just as A.J and myself had predicted and have been positioningourselves to fill. from thramer@presys.com Thu Sep 24 22:41:53 1998 0000 Subject: Fishing Bamboo I routinely fish bamboo and fish with people who fish with bamboo. Ihaven't been on the water with a plastic rod in years and see no reasonto start now. The inferior fishing properties of plastic does not cutit. Note I said fishing NOT casting. Why would I want a second ratefishing experience? Inferior fishing ability leads to the need ofplastic to heave your tackle 50 ft.My fishing companions DO NOT use my rods on an exclusive basis. Commonare Grangers, Heddons,Phillipsons, a few Montagues, an occasional Youngand one of the new makers. I fish with a Heddon and a Phillipsonregularily. A.J.Thramer from MaryKay01@worldnet.att.net Fri Sep 25 00:40:17 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP Subject: Al Medved Planner #1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------7BE2A5C1DCE Well My ATT e mail will not allow much to be sent at one time so this is a 2parter on the drawings. It is in Word97. Many thanks to Al for hisdesign. Mark --------------7BE2A5C1DCE 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- from MaryKay01@worldnet.att.net Fri Sep 25 00:43:00 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP Subject: Al Medved #2 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------42552B5E3835 Here is #2 from brookside.rod@juno.com Fri Sep 25 05:14:16 1998 06:13:35 EDT Subject: Re: Fishing Bamboo On Thu, 24 Sep 1998 20:48:34 -0700 "A.J.Thramer" writes:I routinely fish bamboo and fish with people who fish with bamboo. Ihaven't been on the water with a plastic rod in years and see no reason to start now. .... A. J. ; My sentiments exactly. My dad put a cane rod in my hand when I was ten. It was his prizedpossession and the day was quite a big deal for both of us. With theexception of a fibreglass rod received as a gift in the 70's I've neverfished with plastic. The group I fish with fishes the bamboo rodexclusively.Life is too short for second best and half measures. Gary end ___________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Sep 25 07:48:14 1998 Subject: The no-brain binder Thanks to Rich Jezioro, who retrieved my original description, I haveposted awritten description of the binder at:http://members.aol.com./tsmithwickThe file is listed as binder.txt.A few people have written me recently, and seem obsessed with exactmeasurements, materials, etc. This is not how to go about it. Understandtheprinciples, and then use the materials available to you. Everything on theoriginal came from my basement or the local hardware store, except thethreadtensioner, which came from Dale Clemens.As I told the guys at the Catskills, I don't claim that this is the world'sbest binder, but I think it is the world's simplest. from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Fri Sep 25 09:08:04 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Fri,25Sep 1998 10:15:21 -0400 Art Port , ,"Beth Young" , "Bob Voorhees","Borge, Olaf A." ,Brian Ciesielczyk ,"Burrill, Dean" , flyrod@artistree.com,, ,"Carsten Jorgensen - Dania Flyrods" ,ccurrojr@mindspring.com, Charles Hisey ,charles irvine , cbogart@shentel.net,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu,"CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL" ,CURT PETERSEN , Dan Hall,dkocher@ptd.net, "Dave LaTouche" ,"David" , dblanken@rica.net,"Dlintvet" ,"Domenic Croce" , Subject: Commercial Distribution List Test If you are receiving this e-mail, you are on a list just created to serve as a commercial forum for any rodmakers to make announcements through. If there are any announcements you would like to have sent over the list please address them to me at jlintvet@clarityconnect.com. Once a week (if anything needs to be posted) a single message will go out to list members containing one or more commercial messages. Everything from the announcement of discounted new planing forms to not-for-profit custom silk orders will be included. This list is compiled of previous customers of the Munro Rod Company, individuals which have sent inquiries to the Munro Rod Company, and individuals which have asked to be placed on this list after a message went out on the Rodmakers listserve. I apologize if you received this message due to a mistake on my part. I may have mis-filed e-mails. If you do not meet any of this criteria and wish to be taken off, please respond directly and you will be immediately removed. In addition, if any information about your person is incorrect, please directly send an e-mail with the corrections. FYI...since this is a distribution list, be careful when replying to a message. There is no need to send a response to everyone on the list. Please check your response options before sending an e-mail. This list is not meant to be a burden to anyone. Only to separate the commercial aspect of messages from the listserve. I hope it will not exceed a few messages a month. from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Fri Sep 25 10:15:43 1998 MAINE.maine.edu (IBMVM SMTP Level 310) via TCP with SMTP ; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 11:14:24 EDT Subject: Sensative Material! Dear Caneists, I recieved a call only moments ago in which a well healed(as you will note below) source in Quebec City revealed the following: "Unbeknowst to Mr. T a heavily lined cadre of pararoders have nowinfiltrated the home of the maple leafers. Armed with advanced, infrared,high- resolution Kodacrome, Spot-a-matic cameras, Cabella's Best Camo,andLL Bean loafers, they are quietly documenting all commings and goings ofthe High Roder T. Even as we speak, the Torry pararoders are penetratingthe inner sanctum. All will be revealed. Stay tuned." I have been unable to verify these claims, however a quick call to Freeport(home of LL) did reveal a group matching the above description did in factpurchase loafers, and lots of silk thread, on Wedesday. --RM At 07:02 PM 9/24/98 -0400, you wrote:Chris,I have given up 2 years of fly rod income and spent quite a few bucksbesides onmachine tools to start developing my ideas. I also have quite an expensivescrapdrawer! Do you honestly expect me to give away my hard work to all listmembers,gratis?I deduced when I first started building rods that it was impossible tomake aliving as rodmaker hand planing. I also deduced that the future was not inthe$1200 rod either, but in the $700-$800 rod. There is an enormous marketout theredeveloping just as A.J and myself had predicted and have been positioningourselvesto fill.Much of the so called Commercialism mud slinging on this list is notaboutadvertising but professional jealousy. Most of you guys are chasing thesame tinymarket of high priced rod buyers and the list of builders that think theirrodsareworth 1kilobuck plus is growing every year.We were laughed at a couple of years ago on this list, told thatproduction rodwere garbage compared to a hand planed masterpiece when we suggestedthatproduction rods were, perhaps, a consideration for a growing market.Perhaps A.J and I will be smoking the big cigar after all.Terry Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128 from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Fri Sep 25 11:27:56 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Fri,25Sep 1998 12:36:00 -0400 Subject: Sincerest Apologies! After importing the data from messages for the commercial mailing list. I sent a test message. I have since come to discover the distribution list imported the rodmakers listserve address from multiple individual messages. I sincerely apologize for the bandwidth usage. Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from phillips@library.ucsf.edu Fri Sep 25 12:07:48 1998 Subject: Re: Instructors At 06:36 PM 9/24/98 -0400, you wrote:Hey!Don't answer this off list (at least not exclusively). I imaginelots of us are interested in the answer. Brian I would be interested in the list of instructors too, unless there isanother source on the web somewhere? John H. Phillips III e-mail:phillips@library.ucsf.eduInterlibrary Loan Rm 202Health Sciences LibraryUniversity of California530 Parnassus AveSan Francisco, CA 94143-0840PH: (415) 476-8383FAX: (415) 476-7940 from anglport@con2.com Fri Sep 25 13:20:18 1998 Subject: Re: Art Port and Dial Indicators 101 (or maybe 401)ormaybe.... All,I just realized that I've been off the list for two days (musta beenpunished for using all that bandwidth for the math explanation--mystudentsdo the same thing when I get too deep for them!) If anyone's been trying toraise me, please try again. If anyone knows a way to recoup the missingmessages for two days I'd really like to hear it.Seeya,Art from rcurry@top.monad.net Fri Sep 25 13:52:55 1998 Subject: Re: no more planing Terence Ackland wrote: Chris,I have given up 2 years of fly rod income and spent quite a few bucksbesidesonmachine tools to start developing my ideas. I also have quite anexpensive scrapdrawer! Do you honestly expect me to give away my hard work to alllistmembers,gratis?I deduced when I first started building rods that it was impossible tomake aliving as rodmaker hand planing. I also deduced that the future was not inthe$1200 rod either, but in the $700- $800 rod. There is an enormous marketouttheredeveloping just as A.J and myself had predicted and have beenpositioningourselvesto fill.Much of the so called Commercialism mud slinging on this list is notaboutadvertising but professional jealousy. Most of you guys are chasing thesametinymarket of high priced rod buyers and the list of builders that think theirrodsareworth 1kilobuck plus is growing every year.We were laughed at a couple of years ago on this list, told thatproduction rodwere garbage compared to a hand planed masterpiece when we suggestedthatproduction rods were, perhaps, a consideration for a growing market.Perhaps A.J and I will be smoking the big cigar after all.Terry Mr. Ackland,Customary at this time of year is a strong cold wind from the North,dubbed the Montreal Express. Your email is in accord with the season,though the air is decidely warmer.Chris Bogart's request was perfectly in keeping with the general toneof the list. He has freely shared his tapers, which were the product ofhis hard work, with one and all. A.J. Thramer, who you construe to be akindred spirit, has also been free with tapers, counsel, and friendly,positive suggestions.Regarding Production Rods: yes, several years ago we had adiscussionon the subject, and some, such as I, indicated that Paynes, Thomas',Leonards, were all production rods. I don't recall any laughter.Best regards,Reed Curryrcurry@top.monad.net from chris@artistree.com Fri Sep 25 14:16:36 1998 MAA19846 Subject: Manchester Vt & The Battenkill Just got back from Manchester VT and fishing the Battenkill. What atime! The woman folk in my family wanted a scenic New England drive andI justified it by thinking that I would visit the Fly Fishing Museum,Orvis and maybe fish the Battenkill. Nobody told me how many high endoutlet stores there are in Manchester. If you could have seen the lookon their faces when they saw all those stores. Got to be one of thefirst times they TOLD me to go fishing. Can't wait to see the creditcard bill next month but I guess this will be pay back for all thosecamping (really fishing) trips I make them go on in the Sierras andCascades. Sooo....just thought that if anyone is looking to take thefamily somewhere with nice accommodations, plenty of quality shopping,scenic beauty and fishing to boot you might want to consider ManchesterVT. Had pretty good luck on the Battenkill (in the Arlington VT area) inearly morning and late evening with some flies (Deer's hair caddis) fromGloria Jordan's Fly Shop. Highly recommend you pay her a visit if youare in the area. Very nice woman. And yes, she still has a few of herhusbands rods available. I almost forgot the obligatory rod building statement...I was fishing myfather's 7' 9" 5 wt. which just happened to be the first bamboo rod Iever built. Do love that rod. Hope to inherit it back someday.--Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Sep 25 14:36:54 1998 (modemcable241.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Manchester Vt & The Battenkill Dear Chris, The J. Crew factory outlet in Manchester is a godsend for us flyfisherswithfashion-conscious significant others. Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: Manchester Vt & The Battenkill Just got back from Manchester VT and fishing the Battenkill. What atime! The woman folk in my family wanted a scenic New England drive andI justified it by thinking that I would visit the Fly Fishing Museum,Orvis and maybe fish the Battenkill. Nobody told me how many high endoutlet stores there are in Manchester. If you could have seen the lookon their faces when they saw all those stores. Got to be one of thefirst times they TOLD me to go fishing. Can't wait to see the creditcard bill next month but I guess this will be pay back for all thosecamping (really fishing) trips I make them go on in the Sierras andCascades. Sooo....just thought that if anyone is looking to take thefamily somewhere with nice accommodations, plenty of quality shopping,scenic beauty and fishing to boot you might want to consider ManchesterVT. Had pretty good luck on the Battenkill (in the Arlington VT area) inearly morning and late evening with some flies (Deer's hair caddis) fromGloria Jordan's Fly Shop. Highly recommend you pay her a visit if youare in the area. Very nice woman. And yes, she still has a few of herhusbands rods available. I almost forgot the obligatory rod building statement...I was fishing myfather's 7' 9" 5 wt. which just happened to be the first bamboo rod Iever built. Do love that rod. Hope to inherit it back someday.--Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Sep 25 16:12:24 1998 Subject: Re: no more planing Jon, early in the new year I had a call from a guy that really seems to know thecane market, he wanted to know if I was going to produce some rods so hecan include them in his catalogue. I told him that I was not having muchsuccess with my beveller and perhaps I should put my prices up and justcontinue planing like all the other punters. He replied that he was selling10 of my rods to 1 of the $1K+ rods and I should not change my format.I had a phone call several months ago from a guy asking how long I hadbeen building. When I told him 15 years he wanted to know why there weresomany builders out there with only perhaps 2 years experience and charging$1200 for a rod. I replied that if a builder wants $1200 for a rod that ishow much it is worth, it is up to the buyer to decide if the product isworth the asking price.What is a 'collector rod'? Is it not made from a $10 piece of cane? How doyou sell a 'collector rod', do you tell a customer that one day you are