going to be famous and your rod are an excellent investment?Terry Jon Lintvet wrote: Wow....glad to have you back! from a business standpoint, therewill always be a considerable market (relative to the overall size) forhigh ticket, one of a kind rods. Even at 700- 800, you are talkingabout a lot of money for a fishing rod. Production companies, frommy perspective, were successful with one or maybe two rodowners. There was very little collect-ability issues with Monts orSouth Bends. These items, which were competing largely on pricepoint, were over- whelmingly purchased by first time fisherman. Iimage the same holds true to date. While I have no doubt yourrods (I have never seen one, hope to soon) are wonderful, bamboopurchasers are typically collectors in my experience. In fact, mostof the guys I meet who purchase bamboo regularly fish withgraphite. Good luck with your business endeavors. Maybe when Iget out of school and get a job I can pick one up. Take care...Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277- 4510http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Sep 25 16:45:53 1998 Subject: Re: no more planing Mr Curry,when my family and I moved to North America 16 years ago we learnedthat therewasnothing free here and you only got ahead by working hard and perhapshaving alittleluck.Sharing is certainly not part of American culture, unless you want toinclude thehippyculture of the 60s. I have noticed a far wider gap in the haves and havenots herethanin Europe and how the social concience has adapted to accept it.There is quite a difference between giving away a few tapers and tips to awholerodmaking technique. I have suggested in the past that instead of wastingso muchoftheir time on this list builders could find time to be more innovative.Thelistis great he canbeproud of. Other than that I cannot ever remember reading anything thatextendedintothis half of the 20th century.TerryReed F. Curry wrote: Terence Ackland wrote: Chris,I have given up 2 years of fly rod income and spent quite a few bucksbesidesonmachine tools to start developing my ideas. I also have quite anexpensivescrapdrawer! Do you honestly expect me to give away my hard work to alllistmembers,gratis?I deduced when I first started building rods that it was impossible tomake aliving as rodmaker hand planing. I also deduced that the future was notin the$1200 rod either, but in the $700- $800 rod. There is an enormousmarket outtheredeveloping just as A.J and myself had predicted and have beenpositioningourselvesto fill.Much of the so called Commercialism mud slinging on this list is notaboutadvertising but professional jealousy. Most of you guys are chasing thesametinymarket of high priced rod buyers and the list of builders that thinktheirrods areworth 1kilobuck plus is growing every year.We were laughed at a couple of years ago on this list, told thatproductionrodwere garbage compared to a hand planed masterpiece when wesuggested thatproduction rods were, perhaps, a consideration for a growing market.Perhaps A.J and I will be smoking the big cigar after all.Terry Mr. Ackland,Customary at this time of year is a strong cold wind from theNorth,dubbed the Montreal Express. Your email is in accord with the season,though the air is decidely warmer.Chris Bogart's request was perfectly in keeping with the generaltoneof the list. He has freely shared his tapers, which were the product ofhis hard work, with one and all. A.J. Thramer, who you construe to be akindred spirit, has also been free with tapers, counsel, and friendly,positive suggestions.Regarding Production Rods: yes, several years ago we had adiscussionon the subject, and some, such as I, indicated that Paynes, Thomas',Leonards, were all production rods. I don't recall any laughter.Best regards,Reed Curryrcurry@top.monad.net from Anachemrpo@aol.com Fri Sep 25 17:14:33 1998 Subject: Re: no more planing Terry Ackland made the first bamboo rod I ever held or cast. I found it atthenow-defunct Orvis shop in Plattsburgh NY six or seven years ago. I was genuinely thrilled to have the chance to cast a bamboo fly rod. I hadbeen raised on spin fishing and plastic rods. The bamboo rod that I heldthatday was the key to a new world of fishing for me. Now the illusion is cracked. The bitterness and smart-a** pomposity, the likes of which I had yet tosee onany mailing list (at least by a regular member), really disappoints. So go ahead, flame me with one of your scathing responses Mr. A.. You can'thurt me any more than the disappointment already has. Russ Lavigne from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Sep 25 17:48:33 1998 Subject: RE: no more planing RichardThink about it. If you went to the great beyond and there is troutfishing,what would you bring. The way I figure it, you cannot hedge your bets, soif youdon't take your favorite rod, then some fool will end up abusing it. Chris On Thu, 24 Sep 1998 20:00:49 -0400, Richard Nantel wrote: Ok then, let me guess, if it's a one-piece rod, it has to be short enough tofit in the casket so that rules out seven footers... Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, September 25, 1998 7:35 AM Subject: RE: no more planing RichardThen how would I say that I will take it to the grave? ChrisOn Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:32:44 -0400, Richard Nantel wrote: Chris, would you care to post the taper for that very special burial rod? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, September 24, 1998 8:56 AM Subject: Re: no more planing TerryThanks for getting back on the list - it was getting Dull - so areyou going to fill us in on your mill - send a picture or is it a bigsecret?I am curious as to what solutions you came up with - rememberwe all are getting older and need to think about such things - I have toldmy wife which rod and reel I wanted to be buried with and even tied upa selection of flies for the occasion - much to her horror. Chris On Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:27:40 -0400, Terence Ackland wrote: AJ, how are you?good to see you lurking around the list and trying to bring a littlesanity.I am ready to roll now. I had to get out of hand planing, even the partialplaning I was doing. The old body does not like it anymore and I havebeengetting these recurring nightmares of me standing by my planing formwhenIameighty like those pictures of poor old Garrison in his book!I have been avoiding L's emails and could not bring myself to answer hisfaxes, I know I have let a lot of customers down but I knew which way Iwantedmy rodmaking to go.I have never really considered myself as a rodmaker, hand planing is notreally rodmaking to to my way of thinking.Terry A.J.Thramer wrote: Terence Ackland wrote: Hi, hand planed in any way. The strips were machined from start tofinish.I have been determined to get out of hand planing even if quittingrodmaking was the only alternative I had left. I basically stoppedbuilding rods about 2 years ago because I wanted to concentrate onbuilding equipment which I could not do with orders to fill.I could foresee an increase in demand for can rods that could not besatisfied by hand planers. I did not want to resort to the oldtechnology and copy a beveler but decided to try to build a machinethatincorporates some of the advances of the present.The old bevelers created lots of scrap which I did not want. I stilllike the idea of all the strips coming from the same culmI am not into collector or museum quality rods (whatever they are) Iwant to be in a position to get some rods out there so anglers canseethem and buy them of the shelf.Terry Ackland Congratulations Terry!!, Missed your membership on the list. My beveler is now working also,itwas important to build the rod out of a single stick and I ran into thesame problem , too much waste with the old methods. I look forwardtosending people your way when my rods action is too slow. Be preparedforan incredible backlog of orders when you sell fishing rods instead ofmodern collectibles :)A.J. Regards Chris from jkallo@midwest.net Fri Sep 25 17:52:06 1998 Subject: Re: no more planing Terry Ackland made the first bamboo rod I ever held or cast. I found it atthenow-defunct Orvis shop in Plattsburgh NY six or seven years ago. I was genuinely thrilled to have the chance to cast a bamboo fly rod. I hadbeen raised on spin fishing and plastic rods. The bamboo rod that I heldthatday was the key to a new world of fishing for me. Now the illusion is cracked. The bitterness and smart-a** pomposity, the likes of which I had yet tosee onany mailing list (at least by a regular member), really disappoints. So go ahead, flame me with one of your scathing responses Mr. A.. Youcan'thurt me any more than the disappointment already has. Russ Lavigne I was wondering when someone might say something like this, andhopingsomeone would. I have never made a rod, and perhaps never will so I shouldprobably stay out of this one. Nonetheless, I think my observation as an'outsider' is worth something. As I was received to this list with the mosthumanness I have yet found over the net (and I have been on a few lists), Iam all the more shocked by this sort of attitude, especially in given thatMr. Ackland is a veteran maker. When I thought I'd make a rod or two, mymotivation was primarily a desire to fish with a good cane rod as well asto perhaps pawn a few off on my fishing friends to defray the costs of thetools. I can see that such motivations can lead to a sort of ugly grabbing.I like the idea of being able to make something really beautiful; andsomething which could be worth a reasonable ammount of money. I likethat I'll sink a few bucks into a decent cane rod and go fishing instead.Bitterness seeping into fishing or any of its tributaries is not somethingI think worth risking. Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from jczimny@dol.net Fri Sep 25 17:57:04 1998 Subject: Re: no more planing I must take some exception to the statement that Americans are not asharingpeople. We'vebeen sharing our valor and treasure for years with precious little thanks.John Zimny Terence Ackland wrote: Mr Curry,when my family and I moved to North America 16 years ago we learnedthat therewasnothing free here and you only got ahead by working hard and perhapshaving alittleluck.Sharing is certainly not part of American culture, unless you want toincludethe hippyculture of the 60s. I have noticed a far wider gap in the haves and havenotshere thanin Europe and how the social concience has adapted to accept it.There is quite a difference between giving away a few tapers and tips toa wholerodmaking technique. I have suggested in the past that instead ofwasting somuch oftheir time on this list builders could find time to be moreinnovative.The listis great hecan beproud of. Other than that I cannot ever remember reading anything thatextendedintothis half of the 20th century.TerryReed F. Curry wrote: Terence Ackland wrote: Chris,I have given up 2 years of fly rod income and spent quite a few bucksbesides onmachine tools to start developing my ideas. I also have quite anexpensivescrapdrawer! Do you honestly expect me to give away my hard work to alllistmembers,gratis?I deduced when I first started building rods that it was impossibleto makealiving as rodmaker hand planing. I also deduced that the future wasnot inthe$1200 rod either, but in the $700-$800 rod. There is an enormousmarket outtheredeveloping just as A.J and myself had predicted and have beenpositioningourselvesto fill.Much of the so called Commercialism mud slinging on this list is notaboutadvertising but professional jealousy. Most of you guys are chasingthe sametinymarket of high priced rod buyers and the list of builders that thinktheirrods areworth 1kilobuck plus is growing every year.We were laughed at a couple of years ago on this list, told thatproductionrodwere garbage compared to a hand planed masterpiece when wesuggested thatproduction rods were, perhaps, a consideration for a growing market.Perhaps A.J and I will be smoking the big cigar after all.Terry Mr. Ackland,Customary at this time of year is a strong cold wind from theNorth,dubbed the Montreal Express. Your email is in accord with the season,though the air is decidely warmer.Chris Bogart's request was perfectly in keeping with the generaltoneof the list. He has freely shared his tapers, which were the product ofhis hard work, with one and all. A.J. Thramer, who you construe to be akindred spirit, has also been free with tapers, counsel, and friendly,positive suggestions.Regarding Production Rods: yes, several years ago we had adiscussionon the subject, and some, such as I, indicated that Paynes, Thomas',Leonards, were all production rods. I don't recall any laughter.Best regards,Reed Curryrcurry@top.monad.net from phillips@library.ucsf.edu Fri Sep 25 18:13:21 1998 Subject: RE: taking your rod with you. At 06:47 PM 9/25/98 -0400, you wrote:RichardThink about it. If you went to the great beyond and there is troutfishing,what would you bring. The way I figure it, you cannot hedge your bets, soif youdon't take your favorite rod, then some fool will end up abusing it. This happened to my grandfather's bamboo rod. My dad left it in his garageon the Big Island in Hawaii where the sulfuric and hydrochloric acids inthe atmosphere destroyed all the hardware. But then his grandson found itlast summer, and took it to a professional to have it refinished so hecould fish with it. Which in turn led that grandson (me) to severalfantastic books, The Planing Form newsletter, this list, and hopefully tobuilding my own bamboo rods in the near future. All in all, I believethings tend work out for the best. I just hope I find someone to pass onmy rods to before I go off into the Great Unknown. About some of the recent acerbic posts: I think we need to go fishing, eh? John Phillips from anglport@con2.com Fri Sep 25 18:38:48 1998 Subject: Re: no more planing Jeez, I'm off the list TWO DAYS and find that the damn thing blew up ineverybodys' faces! Can't we all play nice? Ye Gods, I think Mr Phillips isright; I plan on being the first on the water. Last one to his rod is a bigole nasty!!!!!Art from MasjC1@aol.com Fri Sep 25 19:16:39 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Power Fibers Harry, The butt was measured 1 1/4" from a node while the tip butt wasmeasured 21/2" from a node. Mark from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Sep 25 19:27:10 1998 Subject: Re: no more planing Russ,all did was, was to refuse a very generous offer to share free what hascost me agood few thousand dollars to develop. What happens, I get attacked for notsharing.I have always been a socialist and do not mind 50% of my pay check beingtakenaway if it means that there is a social safety net in Canada and nochildren haveto live in beat up trailer 2 plots down.My social concience, I'm afraid, does not include a bunch of rodmakingslackers.I am 51 years old and have spent more than I care to think about onrodmaking,money that should have gone into a retirement fund. I have had an addedincentivein the fact that there have been many changes that do not look good a theplace Iwork. I have been working so that when or if there is a layoff I can fallback onthe rods. What would happen if you started building like me? I would beback tosquare oneYou guy of the me, me, me generation will not understand this. Wait untilyou aremy age and perhaps you'll understand.Terry Ackland Anachemrpo@aol.com wrote: Terry Ackland made the first bamboo rod I ever held or cast. I found it atthenow-defunct Orvis shop in Plattsburgh NY six or seven years ago. I was genuinely thrilled to have the chance to cast a bamboo fly rod. Ihadbeen raised on spin fishing and plastic rods. The bamboo rod that I heldthatday was the key to a new world of fishing for me. Now the illusion is cracked. The bitterness and smart-a** pomposity, the likes of which I had yet tosee onany mailing list (at least by a regular member), really disappoints. So go ahead, flame me with one of your scathing responses Mr. A.. Youcan'thurt me any more than the disappointment already has. Russ Lavigne from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Fri Sep 25 19:28:27 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Fri,25Sep 1998 20:36:46 -0400 Subject: Re: no more planing You hit one very good point. Whatever any rodmaker charges for their rods...that's what it's worth! Business is business and it all comes down to how a business wants to position themselves. With decent efficiency and technology, I think anyone could put out a rod in the 650-800 price range. However, on the same thought, a lot of others could continue with little to no capital (time or money) investment and make rods in the 1000-2000 range, never have inventory, and always have a rod on the bench already sold. Rolex vs. Timex...neither one is going anywhere. On 25 Sep 98, at 17:13, Terence Ackland wrote: Jon, early in the new year I had a call from a guy that really seems to knowthe cane market, he wanted to know if I was going to produce some rodssohe can include them in his catalogue. I told him that I was not havingmuch success with my beveller and perhaps I should put my prices up andjust continue planing like all the other punters. He replied that he wasselling 10 of my rods to 1 of the $1K+ rods and I should not change myformat.I had a phone call several months ago from a guy asking how long I hadbeen building. When I told him 15 years he wanted to know why therewereso many builders out there with only perhaps 2 years experience andcharging $1200 for a rod. I replied that if a builder wants $1200 for arod that is how much it is worth, it is up to the buyer to decide if theproduct is worth the asking price. What is a 'collector rod'? Is it notmade from a $10 piece of cane? How do you sell a 'collector rod', do youtell a customer that one day you are going to be famous and your rod arean excellent investment? Terry Jon Lintvet wrote: Wow....glad to have you back! from a business standpoint, therewill always be a considerable market (relative to the overall size) forhigh ticket, one of a kind rods. Even at 700- 800, you are talking abouta lot of money for a fishing rod. Production companies, from myperspective, were successful with one or maybe two rod owners. Therewas very little collect-ability issues with Monts or South Bends. Theseitems, which were competing largely on price point, were over- whelminglypurchased by first time fisherman. I image the same holds true todate.While I have no doubt your rods (I have never seen one, hope to soon)are wonderful, bamboo purchasers are typically collectors in myexperience. In fact, most of the guys I meet who purchase bambooregularly fish with graphite. Good luck with your business endeavors. Maybe when I get out of school and get a job I can pick one up. Takecare...Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277- 4510http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Fri Sep 25 19:28:28 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Fri,25Sep 1998 20:36:48 -0400 Subject: Re: no more planing On 25 Sep 98, at 17:47, Terence Ackland wrote: You have got to be kidding me! Now this is a grudge match between Americans and Europeans? Don't know where you are living...but I guess in the wrong place. Everyone around here is pretty nice..how about the rest of you? Ok..enough sarcasm. Intellectual property is a very valuable issue....here is fact you might like to hold on to for the next time someone asks an innocent question. 99% of software purchased in Asia is pirated. If Microsoft reduces pirating of their software alone by 1%, their revenue would double. Kinda astounding huh? when my family and I moved to North America 16 years ago we learnedthatthere was nothing free here and you only got ahead by working hard andperhaps having a little luck. Sharing is certainly not part of Americanculture, unless you want to include the hippy culture of the 60s. I have Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Sep 25 19:39:06 1998 (modemcable241.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: no more planing Then again, if you don't bring your rod, you may eternally rest in peaceknowing that you've brought great joy to a mere mortal's life by leavingbehind a perfect fly rod. My two best bamboo rods were sold to me for $20apiece by an elderly woman who's husband had recently died. We sat, hadtea,made small talk about fishing, and then she said I was exactly the type ofyoung man her husband would have liked to give his prized rod to. PerhapsI'm worthy of yours too. I can e-mail you my address to include in the willif you'd like. Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: no more planing RichardThink about it. If you went to the great beyond and there is troutfishing,what would you bring. The way I figure it, you cannot hedge your bets, soifyoudon't take your favorite rod, then some fool will end up abusing it. Chris On Thu, 24 Sep 1998 20:00:49 -0400, Richard Nantel wrote: Ok then, let me guess, if it's a one-piece rod, it has to be short enoughtofit in the casket so that rules out seven footers... Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, September 25, 1998 7:35 AM Subject: RE: no more planing RichardThen how would I say that I will take it to the grave? ChrisOn Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:32:44 -0400, Richard Nantel wrote: Chris, would you care to post the taper for that very special burial rod? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, September 24, 1998 8:56 AM Subject: Re: no more planing TerryThanks for getting back on the list - it was getting Dull - so areyou going to fill us in on your mill - send a picture or is it a bigsecret?I am curious as to what solutions you came up with - rememberwe all are getting older and need to think about such things - I have toldmy wife which rod and reel I wanted to be buried with and even tied upa selection of flies for the occasion - much to her horror. Chris On Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:27:40 -0400, Terence Ackland wrote: AJ, how are you?good to see you lurking around the list and trying to bring a littlesanity.I am ready to roll now. I had to get out of hand planing, even thepartialplaning I was doing. The old body does not like it anymore and I havebeengetting these recurring nightmares of me standing by my planing formwhenIameighty like those pictures of poor old Garrison in his book!I have been avoiding L's emails and could not bring myself to answer hisfaxes, I know I have let a lot of customers down but I knew which way Iwantedmy rodmaking to go.I have never really considered myself as a rodmaker, hand planing is notreally rodmaking to to my way of thinking.Terry A.J.Thramer wrote: Terence Ackland wrote: Hi, hand planed in any way. The strips were machined from start tofinish.I have been determined to get out of hand planing even if quittingrodmaking was the only alternative I had left. I basically stoppedbuilding rods about 2 years ago because I wanted to concentrate onbuilding equipment which I could not do with orders to fill.I could foresee an increase in demand for can rods that could not besatisfied by hand planers. I did not want to resort to the oldtechnology and copy a beveler but decided to try to build a machinethatincorporates some of the advances of the present.The old bevelers created lots of scrap which I did not want. I stilllike the idea of all the strips coming from the same culmI am not into collector or museum quality rods (whatever they are) Iwant to be in a position to get some rods out there so anglers canseethem and buy them of the shelf.Terry Ackland Congratulations Terry!!, Missed your membership on the list. My beveler is now working also,itwas important to build the rod out of a single stick and I ran into thesame problem , too much waste with the old methods. I look forwardtosending people your way when my rods action is too slow. Be preparedforan incredible backlog of orders when you sell fishing rods instead ofmodern collectibles :)A.J. Regards Chris from maxs@geocities.co.jp Fri Sep 25 19:44:06 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA06638 for; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 09:44:02 +0900 (JST) Subject: More Planing! Art, Nice punch!, you make. I want to be the second on the water.Let's go out fishing with our beautiful hand-planed Bamboo Rod withbeautiful reel seat. Rivers are waiting.We are all fly fishers! Fish more fish, make more nicer rods! Make more friends on the river and on the list instead of making money.Are you going to stay so dark when and while fishing got prohibitedsoon?Isn't this list the only enjoyment while no fishing in cold winter? Vieteran!, teach us Nobis. Nobis!, ask vieterans questions foranything! I will show you a big Japanese IWANA which I fished with my Jim Payne200 next week, hopefully. Max -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHomePage:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169/indexe.html from rclarke@eou.edu Fri Sep 25 19:48:58 1998 Subject: Re: no more planing I guess we are all getting off the subject somewhat, and it may be that,like someone pointed out, we need to go fishing, but I appreciate Terry'sinput on this list. I think he offers some real experience and a littllecurmugeness (sp?) that we need. I think we all borrow a little from eachother here, and I think for the most part it is accepted. I owe quite abit to Wayne, Tom Penrose, Chris Bogart, 'Mac' MacDowell, Dave LeClare,TomSmithwick, and even the late Vince Marinaro if I could ever get his nameright. I have a full time plus job and my family and job take precedence,but this bamboo thing is really important to me. I appreciate all of you(you too Terry!) for the input you do give. Ok, I'm going to cry now :) I'm off to eat some dinner and get back to that Driggs taper (that Iborrowed). I can see some October caddis in town here, so I am hoping tohit the water soon! Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Jon Lintvet Subject: Re: no more planingDate: Friday, September 25, 1998 5:27 PM On 25 Sep 98, at 17:47, Terence Ackland wrote: You have got to be kidding me! Now this is a grudge match between Americans and Europeans? Don't know where you are living...but I guess in the wrong place. Everyone around here is pretty nice..how about the rest of you? Ok..enough sarcasm. Intellectual property is a very valuable issue....here is fact you might like to hold on to for the next time someone asks an innocent question. 99% of software purchased in Asia is pirated. If Microsoft reduces pirating of their software alone by 1%, their revenue would double. Kinda astounding huh? when my family and I moved to North America 16 years ago we learnedthatthere was nothing free here and you only got ahead by working hard andperhaps having a little luck. Sharing is certainly not part of Americanculture, unless you want to include the hippy culture of the 60s. Ihave Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from jaquin@netsync.net Fri Sep 25 20:08:08 1998 quartz.netsync.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA15609 for; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 21:07:56 -0400 Subject: Re: no more planing Joseph S.Kallo wrote: Terry Ackland made the first bamboo rod I ever held or cast. I found itatthenow-defunct Orvis shop in Plattsburgh NY six or seven years ago. I was genuinely thrilled to have the chance to cast a bamboo fly rod. Ihadbeen raised on spin fishing and plastic rods. The bamboo rod that I heldthatday was the key to a new world of fishing for me. Now the illusion is cracked. The bitterness and smart-a** pomposity, the likes of which I had yet tosee onany mailing list (at least by a regular member), really disappoints. So go ahead, flame me with one of your scathing responses Mr. A.. Youcan'thurt me any more than the disappointment already has. Russ Lavigne I was wondering when someone might say something like this, andhopingsomeone would. I have never made a rod, and perhaps never will so Ishouldprobably stay out of this one. Nonetheless, I think my observation as an'outsider' is worth something. As I was received to this list with themosthumanness I have yet found over the net (and I have been on a few lists),Iam all the more shocked by this sort of attitude, especially in given thatMr. Ackland is a veteran maker. When I thought I'd make a rod or two, mymotivation was primarily a desire to fish with a good cane rod as wellasto perhaps pawn a few off on my fishing friends to defray the costs ofthetools. I can see that such motivations can lead to a sort of ugly grabbing.I like the idea of being able to make something really beautiful; andsomething which could be worth a reasonable ammount of money. I likethat I'll sink a few bucks into a decent cane rod and go fishing instead.Bitterness seeping into fishing or any of its tributaries is not somethingI think worth risking. Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondalewell put Joe!! You may wish to stay with the rod making. Making athing of beauty is a joy forever!! or something close to that!=). from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Sep 25 20:11:22 1998 Subject: Re: no more planing Robert,Come on, curdmudgeoness, I just had my 81 year old father out here forthreeweeks, now there is a curdmudgeon. He was swearing at the birds formaking toomuch bloody noise!So dont be hard on me , it is in the genes, I remember my grandfather beingamiserable bastard when I was a kid.Terry Robert Clarke wrote: I guess we are all getting off the subject somewhat, and it may be that,like someone pointed out, we need to go fishing, but I appreciate Terry'sinput on this list. I think he offers some real experience and a littllecurmugeness (sp?) that we need. I think we all borrow a little from eachother here, and I think for the most part it is accepted. I owe quite abit to Wayne, Tom Penrose, Chris Bogart, 'Mac' MacDowell, Dave LeClare,TomSmithwick, and even the late Vince Marinaro if I could ever get his nameright. I have a full time plus job and my family and job take precedence,but this bamboo thing is really important to me. I appreciate all of you(you too Terry!) for the input you do give. Ok, I'm going to cry now :) I'm off to eat some dinner and get back to that Driggs taper (that Iborrowed). I can see some October caddis in town here, so I am hoping tohit the water soon! Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Jon Lintvet Subject: Re: no more planingDate: Friday, September 25, 1998 5:27 PM On 25 Sep 98, at 17:47, Terence Ackland wrote: You have got to be kidding me! Now this is a grudge matchbetween Americans and Europeans? Don't know where you areliving...but I guess in the wrong place. Everyone around here ispretty nice..how about the rest of you? Ok..enough sarcasm. Intellectual property is a very valuable issue....here is fact youmight like to hold on to for the next time someone asks aninnocent question. 99% of software purchased in Asia is pirated.If Microsoft reduces pirating of their software alone by 1%, theirrevenue would double. Kinda astounding huh? when my family and I moved to North America 16 years ago welearnedthatthere was nothing free here and you only got ahead by working hardandperhaps having a little luck. Sharing is certainly not part of Americanculture, unless you want to include the hippy culture of the 60s. Ihave Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Sep 25 20:19:58 1998 Subject: Re: no more planing Jon,Remember there is only one rolex!Do not kid yourself, all the hand planers would love a beveller, I trashed amass of emails off line from builders interested in what I was doing.TerryJon Lintvet wrote: You hit one very good point. Whatever any rodmaker charges fortheir rods...that's what it's worth! Business is business and it allcomes down to how a business wants to position themselves.With decent efficiency and technology, I think anyone could put outa rod in the 650-800 price range. However, on the same thought, alot of others could continue with little to no capital (time or money)investment and make rods in the 1000-2000 range, never haveinventory, and always have a rod on the bench already sold. Rolexvs. Timex...neither one is going anywhere. On 25 Sep 98, at 17:13, Terence Ackland wrote: Jon, early in the new year I had a call from a guy that really seems to knowthe cane market, he wanted to know if I was going to produce somerods sohe can include them in his catalogue. I told him that I was not havingmuch success with my beveller and perhaps I should put my prices upandjust continue planing like all the other punters. He replied that he wasselling 10 of my rods to 1 of the $1K+ rods and I should not change myformat.I had a phone call several months ago from a guy asking how long I hadbeen building. When I told him 15 years he wanted to know why therewereso many builders out there with only perhaps 2 years experience andcharging $1200 for a rod. I replied that if a builder wants $1200 for arod that is how much it is worth, it is up to the buyer to decide if theproduct is worth the asking price. What is a 'collector rod'? Is it notmade from a $10 piece of cane? How do you sell a 'collector rod', doyoutell a customer that one day you are going to be famous and your rodarean excellent investment? Terry Jon Lintvet wrote: Wow....glad to have you back! from a business standpoint, therewill always be a considerable market (relative to the overall size)forhigh ticket, one of a kind rods. Even at 700- 800, you are talkingabouta lot of money for a fishing rod. Production companies, from myperspective, were successful with one or maybe two rod owners. Therewas very little collect-ability issues with Monts or South Bends.Theseitems, which were competing largely on price point, were over- whelminglypurchased by first time fisherman. I image the same holds true todate.While I have no doubt your rods (I have never seen one, hope to soon)are wonderful, bamboo purchasers are typically collectors in myexperience. In fact, most of the guys I meet who purchase bambooregularly fish with graphite. Good luck with your business endeavors.Maybe when I get out of school and get a job I can pick one up. Takecare...Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558(607) 277-4510http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from bdcreek@grand-rapids.crosswinds.net Fri Sep 25 20:30:44 1998 (envelope- from bdcreek@grand-rapids.crosswinds.net) Subject: Re: no more planing Russ -Don't get bent. Terry's just like that. He loves to throw out the bait andsee what bites. Brian Anachemrpo@aol.com wrote: Terry Ackland made the first bamboo rod I ever held or cast. I found it atthenow-defunct Orvis shop in Plattsburgh NY six or seven years ago. I was genuinely thrilled to have the chance to cast a bamboo fly rod. Ihadbeen raised on spin fishing and plastic rods. The bamboo rod that I heldthatday was the key to a new world of fishing for me. Now the illusion is cracked. The bitterness and smart-a** pomposity, the likes of which I had yet tosee onany mailing list (at least by a regular member), really disappoints. So go ahead, flame me with one of your scathing responses Mr. A.. Youcan'thurt me any more than the disappointment already has. Russ Lavigne from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Sep 25 20:36:56 1998 Subject: Re: no more planing Jon,I have been doing a little research and have found out that an invention isonly worth patenting if the competition can guess from your product howit wasdone and then reverse engineer it. If there is no clue to how you did it it,isbetter to keep it as a trade secret.I love the states and some very good and loyal friends down there. Theselistsare a different story, it is not real. A 120lb henpecked wimp can be rambo.Ido not take the internet too serously, I find it a compete time waster,evenmore than tv for the simple fact I cannot type.TerryJon Lintvet wrote: On 25 Sep 98, at 17:47, Terence Ackland wrote: You have got to be kidding me! Now this is a grudge matchbetween Americans and Europeans? Don't know where you areliving...but I guess in the wrong place. Everyone around here ispretty nice..how about the rest of you? Ok..enough sarcasm. Intellectual property is a very valuable issue....here is fact youmight like to hold on to for the next time someone asks aninnocent question. 99% of software purchased in Asia is pirated.If Microsoft reduces pirating of their software alone by 1%, theirrevenue would double. Kinda astounding huh? when my family and I moved to North America 16 years ago we learnedthatthere was nothing free here and you only got ahead by working hard andperhaps having a little luck. Sharing is certainly not part of Americanculture, unless you want to include the hippy culture of the 60s. I have Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from bdcreek@grand-rapids.crosswinds.net Fri Sep 25 20:39:41 1998 (envelope- from bdcreek@grand-rapids.crosswinds.net) Subject: Re: no more planing Chris -I have a much better proposition for you. How would you like to beknown asthemaker whose rod fetched the greatest price of all time? Just instruct thegoodMrs.Bogart to hand me the rod at your wake, and I will see that you are buriedwith mypersonal check for a cool one million dollars.Where else you gonna get a deal like that? Brian Richard Nantel wrote: Then again, if you don't bring your rod, you may eternally rest in peaceknowing that you've brought great joy to a mere mortal's life by leavingbehind a perfect fly rod. My two best bamboo rods were sold to me for$20 apiece by an elderly woman who's husband had recently died. We sat, hadtea,made small talk about fishing, and then she said I was exactly the typeofyoung man her husband would have liked to give his prized rod to.PerhapsI'm worthy of yours too. I can e-mail you my address to include in thewillif you'd like. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, September 25, 1998 6:47 PM Subject: RE: no more planing RichardThink about it. If you went to the great beyond and there is troutfishing,what would you bring. The way I figure it, you cannot hedge your bets, soifyoudon't take your favorite rod, then some fool will end up abusing it. Chris On Thu, 24 Sep 1998 20:00:49 -0400, Richard Nantel wrote: Ok then, let me guess, if it's a one-piece rod, it has to be short enoughtofit in the casket so that rules out seven footers... Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, September 25, 1998 7:35 AM Subject: RE: no more planing RichardThen how would I say that I will take it to the grave? ChrisOn Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:32:44 -0400, Richard Nantel wrote: Chris, would you care to post the taper for that very special burialrod? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, September 24, 1998 8:56 AM Subject: Re: no more planing TerryThanks for getting back on the list - it was getting Dull - so areyou going to fill us in on your mill - send a picture or is it a bigsecret?I am curious as to what solutions you came up with - rememberwe all are getting older and need to think about such things - I havetoldmy wife which rod and reel I wanted to be buried with and even tied upa selection of flies for the occasion - much to her horror. Chris On Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:27:40 -0400, Terence Ackland wrote: AJ, how are you?good to see you lurking around the list and trying to bring a littlesanity.I am ready to roll now. I had to get out of hand planing, even thepartialplaning I was doing. The old body does not like it anymore and I havebeengetting these recurring nightmares of me standing by my planing formwhenIameighty like those pictures of poor old Garrison in his book!I have been avoiding L's emails and could not bring myself to answerhisfaxes, I know I have let a lot of customers down but I knew which wayIwantedmy rodmaking to go.I have never really considered myself as a rodmaker, hand planing isnotreally rodmaking to to my way of thinking.Terry A.J.Thramer wrote: Terence Ackland wrote: Hi, hand planed in any way. The strips were machined from start tofinish.I have been determined to get out of hand planing even if quittingrodmaking was the only alternative I had left. I basically stoppedbuilding rods about 2 years ago because I wanted to concentrate onbuilding equipment which I could not do with orders to fill.I could foresee an increase in demand for can rods that could notbesatisfied by hand planers. I did not want to resort to the oldtechnology and copy a beveler but decided to try to build a machinethatincorporates some of the advances of the present.The old bevelers created lots of scrap which I did not want. I stilllike the idea of all the strips coming from the same culmI am not into collector or museum quality rods (whatever they are)Iwant to be in a position to get some rods out there so anglers canseethem and buy them of the shelf.Terry Ackland Congratulations Terry!!, Missed your membership on the list. My beveler is now working also,itwas important to build the rod out of a single stick and I ran intothesame problem , too much waste with the old methods. I look forwardtosending people your way when my rods action is too slow. Bepreparedforan incredible backlog of orders when you sell fishing rods instead ofmodern collectibles :)A.J. Regards Chris from saltwein@swbell.net Fri Sep 25 20:42:50 1998 gw3adm.rcsntx.swbell.net UAA27594 Subject: Re: no more planing I, for one, enjoy using a plane. I collected planes before I thought ofmaking a bamboo flyrod. In my world it is the most exciting part of therodmaking (matching almost catching the first fish on a new rod). I am new at this, a couple of years now. I had roots in restorationbefore. I have been woodworking for thirty years, have been a machinistand a tool maker....I really enjoy seeing the .oo3 shavings curling offof the plane. The wife thinks they're so attractive that she wants tofind a decorative use for them. I couldn't honestly tell you that I would have no interest in a powerplane or mill, but then that is part of my disease..any new machinery.Oh, by the way, I'll be 54 in January. I plan to retire at 60 and beadept enough at this hobby to supplement my income. I have had cervical strains, tendinitis, and a seperated shoulder, butdamn it I like to plane. I make use of some hold downs to ease theprocess and I am likely to make more adjustments down the road but fornow, for me, that glistening 1-1/2" piece of steel is the ticket. Just my .02. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from bdcreek@grand-rapids.crosswinds.net Fri Sep 25 20:51:17 1998 (envelope- from bdcreek@grand-rapids.crosswinds.net) Subject: Re: More Planing! Hai, Sensai Satoh!This is the spirit of the list, and why it remains worthwhile. There'salways somebody out there with great advice, if we will but take it. Brian Max Satoh wrote: Art, Nice punch!, you make. I want to be the second on the water.Let's go out fishing with our beautiful hand-planed Bamboo Rod withbeautiful reel seat.Rivers are waiting.We are all fly fishers! Fish more fish, make more nicer rods!Make more friends on the river and on the list instead of making money.Are you going to stay so dark when and while fishing got prohibitedsoon?Isn't this list the only enjoyment while no fishing in cold winter? Vieteran!, teach us Nobis. Nobis!, ask vieterans questions foranything! I will show you a big Japanese IWANA which I fished with my Jim Payne200next week, hopefully. Max --Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHomePage:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169/indexe.html from briansr@point-net.com Fri Sep 25 21:08:41 1998 Subject: re:no more planing Hi Terry Don't worry that A.C. is going to be laying off .They're so farbehind in maintanance especially powerplant , it'Il take years to catchup.I know the 10+hrs a day are the %%$$# But ya gets 4 on 4 off.Plenty oftime to plane away??Personally I don't blame you for giving away your "secrets"That's yourperogative Having said that I have never seen so much sharing of info. asseen on this list.BTW Terry are you up to making planing forms for 3localswho are on this list???A rodmaker with 21 years experience & still enjoying every blessedmoment of it.Brian( Why am I looking for a planing form with 21 years of rodbuilding?? theywas all plastic including some home rolled .) from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Sep 25 21:09:24 1998 Subject: Re: no more planing Steve,I loved planing, once. I think planes are just good to look at and handle,like a good camera. I have been planing for 15 years and in that time I havedeveloped a market and also got 15 years older. More output with age isnotreally on, so I worked at trying to build equipment that was as accurate asplaning and as economical regarding scrap.I have worked with my hands all my life, a tool maker like you. I have hadboth carpal tunnels done I suffer from tennis elbow if I spend too muchtimeplaning.Fuck it, why should I have to keep making excuses, I don't like planing anymore and I am not going to plane any more.Terry Steve wrote: I, for one, enjoy using a plane. I collected planes before I thought ofmaking a bamboo flyrod. In my world it is the most exciting part of therodmaking (matching almost catching the first fish on a new rod). I am new at this, a couple of years now. I had roots in restorationbefore. I have been woodworking for thirty years, have been a machinistand a tool maker....I really enjoy seeing the .oo3 shavings curling offof the plane. The wife thinks they're so attractive that she wants tofind a decorative use for them. I couldn't honestly tell you that I would have no interest in a powerplane or mill, but then that is part of my disease..any new machinery.Oh, by the way, I'll be 54 in January. I plan to retire at 60 and beadept enough at this hobby to supplement my income. I have had cervical strains, tendinitis, and a seperated shoulder, butdamn it I like to plane. I make use of some hold downs to ease theprocess and I am likely to make more adjustments down the road but fornow, for me, that glistening 1-1/2" piece of steel is the ticket. Just my .02. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from briansr@point-net.com Fri Sep 25 21:33:14 1998 0000 Subject: composites Hi ListDoes anyone know if Cecil Pierce or anyone else was successful withGraphite-cane composites? Or does anyone on the list have any experiencewith this .Thank's in advance Brian from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Sep 25 22:18:13 1998 (modemcable241.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: no more planing Hey Brian, Are we up to three locals in need of forms? The prospects for groupdiscounts are growing. Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: re:no more planing BTW Terry are you up to making planing forms for 3 localswho are on this list??? from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Sep 25 22:33:15 1998 (modemcable241.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: no more planing Actually, now that I think of it... Terry, since you have this new machine built and you hate planing, perhapsIcan take those forms off your hands? Clear up some space in yourworkshop.;) Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: no more planing Hey Brian, Are we up to three locals in need of forms? The prospects for groupdiscounts are growing. Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: re:no more planing BTW Terry are you up to making planing forms for 3 localswho are on this list??? from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sat Sep 26 01:11:15 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: no more planing Art, Don't totally lose faith...when I first got interested in bamboo rods, Icontacted H.L. Leonard (Hap Mills) and couldn't have run into a nicerfellow...offered to sell me cane from his pre-embargo stock (the embargowasstill on at the time so he couldn't get more) and even offered a tour of hisfacility and was anxious to show me how a Leonard rod was made (if only Icould have taken him up on it, I was a teenager at the time and 1700 milesaway)! Not to defend Terry's not-too-tactfully-stated position, but remember:1) no one is obligated to share their techniques and methods (though itdoesn't make any sense to me to be on the list if you aren't going to...asMike pointed out, it is NOT to be an advertising medium)2) some of the list members derive income from their rodmaking (somemayeven derive most of their income from rodmaking...but I'd be surprised onthat count)3) some of the list members deriving income from rodmaking may bewilling toprovide assistance at what they deem to be an amateur level of rodmaking,but draw the line at helping other professional rodmakers (whom theydeem asa threat to their own cashflow) Good luck fishing,George PS--Off this topic...are there any listmembers in the SF Bay Area who arealso mechanical engineers and have been considering designing their ownbamboo milling machine? If so, and you would like to callaborate on atotally automated design instead (I'm an electrical engineer with 20 yearsexperience in process automation), please e-mail me off the list(irish- george@worldnet.att.net). I am especially interested if you aren'tagainst sharing the final design details with the list...I think it would bemore of a matter of curiosity amongst the group and likely no more than 1or2 people would duplicate it.-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: no more planing Jeez, I'm off the list TWO DAYS and find that the damn thing blew up ineverybodys' faces! Can't we all play nice? Ye Gods, I think Mr Phillips isright; I plan on being the first on the water. Last one to his rod is a bigole nasty!!!!!Art from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Sat Sep 26 03:47:21 1998 post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id JAA08465 for; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 09:50:09 +0100 Subject: Re: no more planing boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0100_01BDE931.C43C5700" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0100_01BDE931.C43C5700 Terry, I think you're wonderful. Mealy mouthed - I don't think so. JC.-----Original Message-----From: Terence Ackland Date: 26 September 1998 03:15Subject: Re: no more planing Steve,I loved planing, once. I think planes are just good to look at and =handle,like a good camera. I have been planing for 15 years and in that =time I havedeveloped a market and also got 15 years older. More output with age =is notreally on, so I worked at trying to build equipment that was as =accurate asplaning and as economical regarding scrap.I have worked with my hands all my life, a tool maker like you. I =have hadboth carpal tunnels done I suffer from tennis elbow if I spend too =much timeplaning.Fuck it, why should I have to keep making excuses, I don't like =planing anymore and I am not going to plane any more.Terry Steve wrote: I, for one, enjoy using a plane. I collected planes before I =thought ofmaking a bamboo flyrod. In my world it is the most exciting part =of therodmaking (matching almost catching the first fish on a new rod). I am new at this, a couple of years now. I had roots in =restorationbefore. I have been woodworking for thirty years, have been a =machinistand a tool maker....I really enjoy seeing the .oo3 shavings =curling offof the plane. The wife thinks they're so attractive that she =wants tofind a decorative use for them. I couldn't honestly tell you that I would have no interest in a =powerplane or mill, but then that is part of my disease..any new =machinery.Oh, by the way, I'll be 54 in January. I plan to retire at 60 and =beadept enough at this hobby to supplement my income. I have had cervical strains, tendinitis, and a seperated shoulder, =butdamn it I like to plane. I make use of some hold downs to ease =theprocess and I am likely to make more adjustments down the road but =fornow, for me, that glistening 1-1/2" piece of steel is the ticket. Just my .02. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO ------=_NextPart_000_0100_01BDE931.C43C5700 Terry, I think you're wonderful. = I don't think so. JC. -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= planingSteve,I loved planing, once. I think = are just good to look at and handle,like a good camera. I have = planing for 15 years and in that time I havedeveloped a market = got 15 years older. More output with age is notreally on, so I = economical regarding scrap.I have worked with my hands all my = tool maker like you. I have hadboth carpal tunnels done I suffer = tennis elbow if I spend too much timeplaning.Fuck it, why = have to keep making excuses, I don't like planing anymore and I = = one, enjoy using a plane. I collected planes before I thought = Independence, MO ------=_NextPart_000_0100_01BDE931.C43C5700-- from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sat Sep 26 04:40:03 1998 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0200 Subject: Sv: no more planing EAA09073 It has been quite entertaining following the "no more planing" thread forthe lastcouple of days. As I see it it, this is a question of pro's versus amateurs.Terryis obviously a pro, having invested time and money in developing anapparatus forthe manufacture and marketing of cane rods. My respects, as I have neitherthetime, money nor desire to go pro. Would I like him to share his tradesecrets?Absolutely yes, as it would be very interesting to see, what he has cookedup. The question I ask myself is: Could I expect him to? The answer must beNO,obviously! He depend on this skill to make a living, now or later, Could I,withinreason, ask him to give away his "pension fund"? I, on the other hand, am an amateur. I LIKE planing. I like sharing whateverknowledge I have. The list is based on the participation of people, sharingmyconviction that sharing knowledge is, dare I use the word, profitable? toeveryoneparticipating. I resent being called a rodmaking slacker, just because I dont do this for aliving. On the other hand, sharing my knowledge, however small, does notconstitute "social conscience". I am not of the opinion, that "smart-a**" and "pompous" do match Terrysway ofexpressing himself. Understatement might not be the right word either.Less thandiplomatic are, perhaps, the best words coming to my mind right now. I make cane rods, because I like them, like to fish them, and like to covermyexpenses, at least partially, by selling a rod now and then. This does notmake mea pro, just a sucker who could make more money out of deliveringgroceries thanrodmaking, which is OK for me, rodmaking being a hobby I dearly love. My last remarks on this subject are a bait to Terry: Why do You make rods?Why areYou a listmember? I am really curious as to the answers. Pleaseremember, thesequestions were asked in good faith Regards Carsten "just another rodmaking European" Jorgensen from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat Sep 26 06:28:42 1998 Sat, 26 Sep 1998 19:28:03 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: no more planing On Fri, 25 Sep 1998, Terence Ackland wrote: Jon, early in the new year I had a call from a guy that really seems to knowthecane market, he wanted to know if I was going to produce some rods sohecan include them in his catalogue. I told him that I was not having muchsuccess with my beveller and perhaps I should put my prices up and justcontinue planing like all the other punters. He replied that he was selling10 of my rods to 1 of the $1K+ rods and I should not change my format.I had a phone call several months ago from a guy asking how long I hadbeen building. When I told him 15 years he wanted to know why therewere somany builders out there with only perhaps 2 years experience andcharging$1200 for a rod. I replied that if a builder wants $1200 for a rod that ishow much it is worth, it is up to the buyer to decide if the product isworth the asking price.What is a 'collector rod'? Is it not made from a $10 piece of cane? Howdoyou sell a 'collector rod', do you tell a customer that one day you aregoing to be famous and your rod are an excellent investment?Terry Nobody is arguing with what you say but you always draw a line in the sand saying what a bunch of idiots everybody is for doing what is basicaly for the most part a hoby. Since you take the engeneering aproach to all this and have developed a "sausage machine" to turn rods out with the intention of getting cheaper (not a good choice of words but nor is mass apeal) rods good on ya, but from what I'm seeing there is an expectation in the minds of a large section of the market that cane rods should look a certain way and all this costs time and money which worth it or not is reflected in the price. I for my part sell rods for $750, I can do this because I make everything on the rod except grow the cork. This is not a commercial comment, but that is about what I think you're wanting for your rods which makes me think you may be asking a high price also. I *AM NOT* saying mass made rods are inferior, just *please* stop reminding everybody how damed superior you are to all us plebs. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat Sep 26 06:31:14 1998 Sat, 26 Sep 1998 19:30:45 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: no more planing Hang in there Joe, Terry flys in, dumps and leaves again. Make your rods and enjoy it. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat Sep 26 06:32:46 1998 Sat, 26 Sep 1998 19:32:35 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: no more planing On Fri, 25 Sep 1998, John Zimny wrote: I must take some exception to the statement that Americans are not asharingpeople. We'vebeen sharing our valor and treasure for years with precious little thanks.John Zimny I can vouch for that in aces. Nobody expects anybody to share what they don't want to but telling people you have a pocket full of lolly and your not sharing is a little trite. Tony Terence Ackland wrote: Mr Curry,when my family and I moved to North America 16 years ago we learnedthatthere wasnothing free here and you only got ahead by working hard and perhapshaving alittleluck.Sharing is certainly not part of American culture, unless you want toincludethe hippyculture of the 60s. I have noticed a far wider gap in the haves and havenotshere thanin Europe and how the social concience has adapted to accept it.There is quite a difference between giving away a few tapers and tipsto awholerodmaking technique. I have suggested in the past that instead ofwasting somuch oftheir time on this list builders could find time to be moreinnovative.Thelist is great rod hecan beproud of. Other than that I cannot ever remember reading anything thatextended intothis half of the 20th century.TerryReed F. Curry wrote: Terence Ackland wrote: Chris,I have given up 2 years of fly rod income and spent quite a fewbucksbesides onmachine tools to start developing my ideas. I also have quite anexpensivescrapdrawer! Do you honestly expect me to give away my hard work toall listmembers,gratis?I deduced when I first started building rods that it was impossibletomake aliving as rodmaker hand planing. I also deduced that the future wasnot inthe$1200 rod either, but in the $700-$800 rod. There is an enormousmarketout theredeveloping just as A.J and myself had predicted and have beenpositioningourselvesto fill.Much of the so called Commercialism mud slinging on this list isnot aboutadvertising but professional jealousy. Most of you guys are chasingthesame tinymarket of high priced rod buyers and the list of builders that thinktheirrods areworth 1kilobuck plus is growing every year.We were laughed at a couple of years ago on this list, told thatproduction rodwere garbage compared to a hand planed masterpiece when wesuggested thatproduction rods were, perhaps, a consideration for a growingmarket.Perhaps A.J and I will be smoking the big cigar after all.Terry Mr. Ackland,Customary at this time of year is a strong cold wind from theNorth,dubbed the Montreal Express. Your email is in accord with the season,though the air is decidely warmer.Chris Bogart's request was perfectly in keeping with the generaltoneof the list. He has freely shared his tapers, which were the product ofhis hard work, with one and all. A.J. Thramer, who you construe to beakindred spirit, has also been free with tapers, counsel, and friendly,positive suggestions.Regarding Production Rods: yes, several years ago we had adiscussionon the subject, and some, such as I, indicated that Paynes, Thomas',Leonards, were all production rods. I don't recall any laughter.Best regards,Reed Curryrcurry@top.monad.net /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat Sep 26 06:35:55 1998 Sat, 26 Sep 1998 19:35:48 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: no more planing On Fri, 25 Sep 1998, Terence Ackland wrote: Russ,all did was, was to refuse a very generous offer to share free what hascost meagood few thousand dollars to develop. What happens, I get attacked fornotsharing.I have always been a socialist and do not mind 50% of my pay checkbeing takenaway if it means that there is a social safety net in Canada and nochildrenhaveto live in beat up trailer 2 plots down.My social concience, I'm afraid, does not include a bunch of rodmakingslackers.I am 51 years old and have spent more than I care to think about onrodmaking,money that should have gone into a retirement fund. I have had an addedincentivein the fact that there have been many changes that do not look good a theplaceIwork. I have been working so that when or if there is a layoff I can fallbackonthe rods. What would happen if you started building like me? I would beback tosquare oneYou guy of the me, me, me generation will not understand this. Waituntil youaremy age and perhaps you'll understand.Terry Ackland Please spare us. I've lived in some pretty nasty places through out Asia and now live in what I's recon is one of the best places on Earth. Mean sprit is mean spirit anywhere you see it. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat Sep 26 06:46:04 1998 Sat, 26 Sep 1998 19:45:58 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: no more planing On Fri, 25 Sep 1998, Terence Ackland wrote: Jon,I have been doing a little research and have found out that an invention isonly worth patenting if the competition can guess from your producthow it wasdone and then reverse engineer it. If there is no clue to how you did it it,isbetter to keep it as a trade secret.I love the states and some very good and loyal friends down there. Theselistsare a different story, it is not real. A 120lb henpecked wimp can berambo. Ido not take the internet too serously, I find it a compete time waster,evenmore than tv for the simple fact I cannot type.TerryJon Lintvet wrote: Then again, some of us are 190lb fly halfs with NZ alpine guide experience who conside 30kn winds prime sailing conditions who just happen to like planing rods and fishing them. Tony from richjez@enteract.com Sat Sep 26 06:58:53 1998 0000 Subject: Re: no more planing Terry, I am of your generation and age and I don't understand. Why did you post this information to the list after many months ofsilence?Surely you expected people to ask questions about your process. If not, what was your purpose in informing us of your new rod makingprocess?Rich Jezioro At 08:28 PM 9/25/98 -0400, you wrote:Russ,all did was, was to refuse a very generous offer to share free what hascostme agood few thousand dollars to develop. What happens, I get attacked fornotsharing.I have always been a socialist and do not mind 50% of my pay check beingtakenaway if it means that there is a social safety net in Canada and nochildrenhaveto live in beat up trailer 2 plots down.My social concience, I'm afraid, does not include a bunch of rodmakingslackers.I am 51 years old and have spent more than I care to think about onrodmaking,money that should have gone into a retirement fund. I have had an addedincentivein the fact that there have been many changes that do not look good a theplace Iwork. I have been working so that when or if there is a layoff I can fallbackonthe rods. What would happen if you started building like me? I would bebacktosquare oneYou guy of the me, me, me generation will not understand this. Wait untilyouaremy age and perhaps you'll understand.Terry Ackland Anachemrpo@aol.com wrote: Terry Ackland made the first bamboo rod I ever held or cast. I found itatthenow-defunct Orvis shop in Plattsburgh NY six or seven years ago. I was genuinely thrilled to have the chance to cast a bamboo fly rod. Ihadbeen raised on spin fishing and plastic rods. The bamboo rod that I heldthatday was the key to a new world of fishing for me. Now the illusion is cracked. The bitterness and smart-a** pomposity, the likes of which I had yet toseeonany mailing list (at least by a regular member), really disappoints. So go ahead, flame me with one of your scathing responses Mr. A.. Youcan'thurt me any more than the disappointment already has. Russ Lavigne *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ /||/______/_||_________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sat Sep 26 07:28:46 1998 Subject: Re: no more planing Hello Terry: Up to your old tricks, I see. You sir, are a rascal; in themischievous vein, that is. According to my Merriam-Webster:Slacker: 1. Not using due diligence, care, or dispatch: NEGLIGENT2. a. Characterized by slowness, sluggishness, or lack ofenergyb. Moderate in some qualityc. Blowing or flowing at low speed3. a. Not tight or tautb. lacking in usual or normal firmness and steadiness:WEAK (slack muscles)4. Wanting in activity: DULL 5. lacking in completeness, finish, or perfection (a veryslack piece of work) In view of the above, most sees to describe power beveling/millinginstead ofhand planing. What say you now, Terrance? Regards,Richard-stirring the pot-Tyree from anglport@con2.com Sat Sep 26 07:38:27 1998 Subject: Re: no more planing George,Don't worry, I'm in no danger of losing the faith (Wasn't it Adam ClaytonPowell Jr who said "Keep the baby, Faith"?). I watched a similarinterchangeoccur shortly after I first joined the list and didn't throw up the whiteflag then; I ain't gonna do it now that I'm a seasoned veteran! It's justkind of funny the way the place can go from a happy sandbox to a gangwarinone letter. Sometimes I think there ought to be an internal hold-functionone-mail in the CPU for 24 hrs. I know I could have profited from it on morethan one occasion! I think sometimes we express our opinions too quicklyeven to make our own best case. I just hate to see guys that agree on somuch get into it so badly over certain parts of the game. Several times Ihave asked (with some trepidation) if I could learn more about someone'stechnique and so far I've been lucky--I still have no teeth marks on myheadand my ears are not yet cauliflowered. (For God's sake I hope THIS doesn'toffend anyone!)Any way, this still seems to be the place to be if you love cane and itspossibilities.See you on the Web,Art At 11:16 PM 9/25/98 -0700, you wrote:Art, Don't totally lose faith... Good luck fishing,George from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat Sep 26 07:47:15 1998 Sat, 26 Sep 1998 20:47:09 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: no more planing On Sat, 26 Sep 1998, Art Port wrote: George,Don't worry, I'm in no danger of losing the faith (Wasn't it Adam ClaytonPowell Jr who said "Keep the baby, Faith"?). I watched a similarinterchangeoccur shortly after I first joined the list and didn't throw up the whiteflag then; I ain't gonna do it now that I'm a seasoned veteran! It's justkind of funny the way the place can go from a happy sandbox to agangwar inone letter. Sometimes I think there ought to be an internal hold-functionone-mail in the CPU for 24 hrs. I know I could have profited from it onmorethan one occasion! I think sometimes we express our opinions too quicklyeven to make our own best case. I just hate to see guys that agree on somuch get into it so badly over certain parts of the game. Several times Ihave asked (with some trepidation) if I could learn more about someone'stechnique and so far I've been lucky--I still have no teeth marks on myheadand my ears are not yet cauliflowered. (For God's sake I hope THISdoesn'toffend anyone!) Oi, whataya got against us cauliflowers?!?!Just kidding. Tony from anglport@con2.com Sat Sep 26 08:02:49 1998 Subject: Re: no more planing Oi, whataya got against us cauliflowers?!?!Just kidding. Tony Tony,To paraphrase Geo W Bush; I sure am glad I don't like cauliflower, 'cause ifI did, I'd eat it, and that'd be terrible ....'cause I really HATE it!Art from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Sep 26 09:11:13 1998 Subject: Re: no more planing Rich,I can only take the list in small doses which I think works well for all ofus.I have just got back on the list and decided to let the builders know what Ihavebeen up to. I was very excited and just wanted to tell the group. Icertainly didnot expect all the fuss when I refused to give details. I am a veryindependentbuilder and have always got the most pleasure out of finding my ownsolutions toproblems. I enjoy this more than the actual building of rods.It would not have crossed my mind to ask a builder the details of hisbevellerunless it was a commercial unit and it would only be to ask him if he wassatisfied with it.It was a big mistake, I just thought it would have been more interestingthan homegrown cane. I know there are several very experienced builders out thereusingbevellers and it would have an interesting topic for discussion before thechildren started screaming.Terry Rich Jezioro wrote: Terry,I am of your generation and age and I don't understand.Why did you post this information to the list after many months ofsilence?Surely you expected people to ask questions about your process.If not, what was your purpose in informing us of your new rod makingprocess?Rich Jezioro At 08:28 PM 9/25/98 -0400, you wrote:Russ,all did was, was to refuse a very generous offer to share free what hascostme agood few thousand dollars to develop. What happens, I get attacked fornotsharing.I have always been a socialist and do not mind 50% of my pay checkbeingtakenaway if it means that there is a social safety net in Canada and nochildrenhaveto live in beat up trailer 2 plots down.My social concience, I'm afraid, does not include a bunch of rodmakingslackers.I am 51 years old and have spent more than I care to think about onrodmaking,money that should have gone into a retirement fund. I have had an addedincentivein the fact that there have been many changes that do not look good atheplace Iwork. I have been working so that when or if there is a layoff I can fallbackonthe rods. What would happen if you started building like me? I would bebacktosquare oneYou guy of the me, me, me generation will not understand this. Waituntilyouaremy age and perhaps you'll understand.Terry Ackland Anachemrpo@aol.com wrote: Terry Ackland made the first bamboo rod I ever held or cast. I found itatthenow-defunct Orvis shop in Plattsburgh NY six or seven years ago. I was genuinely thrilled to have the chance to cast a bamboo fly rod. Ihadbeen raised on spin fishing and plastic rods. The bamboo rod that Iheldthatday was the key to a new world of fishing for me. Now the illusion is cracked. The bitterness and smart-a** pomposity, the likes of which I had yetto seeonany mailing list (at least by a regular member), really disappoints. So go ahead, flame me with one of your scathing responses Mr. A.. Youcan'thurt me any more than the disappointment already has. Russ Lavigne *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@ /||/______/_||_________________________________________||/\/ \ > > / \ > from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sat Sep 26 09:33:08 1998 Subject: Terry's at it again To the list, Guess Terry Ackland is @ it again. Shows up, insults about 1/2 the folks,never shares a thing but suggests that planners are last centurytechnicians, thinks that all those on this list are below the legaldrinking age, most are lazy and on and on. That's why he's been bannedfromother lists.Last time I personally swatted the little sucker and he didn't show up for6 months - how 'bout somebody else doing the honors. Hit 'em harder thistime. Don from jczimny@dol.net Sat Sep 26 10:16:22 1998 Subject: Re: no more planing I'd be more than happy to share my experiences with a Bellinger mill ifanyonewouldlike to know about it. However, I've not been able to get a finished qualitystripoutof it. What it does do, is give the maker a perfect triangular shape so thatfinishplaning is a breeze. But unless you are going to make more than two orthree rodsofthe same length, it is not a great time saver. It is easier on the hands.John Terence Ackland wrote: Rich,I can only take the list in small doses which I think works well for all ofus.I have just got back on the list and decided to let the builders know whatIhavebeen up to. I was very excited and just wanted to tell the group. Icertainlydidnot expect all the fuss when I refused to give details. I am a veryindependentbuilder and have always got the most pleasure out of finding my ownsolutions toproblems. I enjoy this more than the actual building of rods.It would not have crossed my mind to ask a builder the details of hisbevellerunless it was a commercial unit and it would only be to ask him if hewassatisfied with it.It was a big mistake, I just thought it would have been more interestingthanhomegrown cane. I know there are several very experienced builders out thereusingbevellers and it would have an interesting topic for discussion beforethechildren started screaming.Terry Rich Jezioro wrote: Terry,I am of your generation and age and I don't understand.Why did you post this information to the list after many months ofsilence?Surely you expected people to ask questions about your process.If not, what was your purpose in informing us of your new rod makingprocess?Rich Jezioro At 08:28 PM 9/25/98 -0400, you wrote:Russ,all did was, was to refuse a very generous offer to share free whathas costme agood few thousand dollars to develop. What happens, I get attacked fornotsharing.I have always been a socialist and do not mind 50% of my pay checkbeingtakenaway if it means that there is a social safety net in Canada and nochildrenhaveto live in beat up trailer 2 plots down.My social concience, I'm afraid, does not include a bunch of rodmakingslackers.I am 51 years old and have spent more than I care to think about onrodmaking,money that should have gone into a retirement fund. I have had anaddedincentivein the fact that there have been many changes that do not look good atheplace Iwork. I have been working so that when or if there is a layoff I canfallbackonthe rods. What would happen if you started building like me? I wouldbe backtosquare oneYou guy of the me, me, me generation will not understand this. Waituntilyouaremy age and perhaps you'll understand.Terry Ackland Anachemrpo@aol.com wrote: Terry Ackland made the first bamboo rod I ever held or cast. I foundit atthenow-defunct Orvis shop in Plattsburgh NY six or seven years ago. I was genuinely thrilled to have the chance to cast a bamboo fly rod.I hadbeen raised on spin fishing and plastic rods. The bamboo rod that Iheldthatday was the key to a new world of fishing for me. Now the illusion is cracked. The bitterness and smart-a** pomposity, the likes of which I hadyet to seeonany mailing list (at least by a regular member), really disappoints. So go ahead, flame me with one of your scathing responses Mr. A..You can'thurt me any more than the disappointment already has. Russ Lavigne *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@ /||/______/_||_________________________________________||/\/ \ > > > / \ > from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat Sep 26 10:29:16 1998 Sat, 26 Sep 1998 23:28:50 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: no more planing On Sat, 26 Sep 1998, Terence Ackland wrote: It was a big mistake, I just thought it would have been more interestingthanhomegrown cane. I know there are several very experienced builders out thereusingbevellers and it would have an interesting topic for discussion beforethechildren started screaming.Terry What discussion? I've got a secret and you've gota guess what it is? What's the point? /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from rdonnely@webtv.net Sat Sep 26 10:36:22 1998 111.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with 111.iap.bryant.webtv.net(8.8.5/mt.gso.26Feb98) id IAA25955; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 08:36:19 -0700 ETAtAhQv9ahkBi6GERLz5VRABfiRk5ax6wIVAKbdENDy5VLA1sTEGJYchCccFMZy Subject: No more planing Terry-Good for you. As my old knotheaded Prussian father always told me.Listen carefully-then you will know what you know and you also knowwhatthe other guy knows. Incidentally, that old knothead planed his owntournament rods and fished salt water with John Emery's father before itwas fashionable, when Clearwater beach was still an island. Ray from ragnarig@integrityol.com Sat Sep 26 10:57:11 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A0FC33F01D2; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 09:06:20 PDT Subject: Re: no more planing Do not kid yourself, all the hand planers would love a beveller, I =trashed amass of emails off line from builders interested in what I was doing.Terry Nope. Not all. Maybe those with delusions of becoming Jim Paynes (and =please let's not recite our bodily malfunctions for the moment) but not =all. Some of us continue to hand-plane despite serious discomfort, lack =of sharpening skill, severe malcoordination and a veritable plethora of =good reasons to just make a beveller and have done with it. On the other hand- some of us, at least one I can think of, are doing =that beveller thing not for the accompanying noise/mess/complication and=hazard, or because we aspire to become captains of rodmaking industry =who can light their Dunhills (or Cohibas) with fifties, but because the =few rods we make for friends and family (or for the rationalization that =our hobby can pay for itself) are made with the sheer joy of doing it =and intense physical discomfort tends to detract somewhat.(I just caught the irony in the above paragraph- lighting up a fifty =with a fifty~) Personally, I never collected planes (or anything else for that matter) =but I designed and made a lot of them for my own hand, and that made my =work with them far more efficient and enjoyable. I think a lot of the =people who use other people's product to make their own goods are =missing out on something- and possibly throwing away a good chance to =learn something about themselves. Davy from ragnarig@integrityol.com Sat Sep 26 11:00:02 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A1AA47B01C8; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 09:09:14 PDT Subject: Re: Fishing Bamboo I routinely fish bamboo and fish with people who fish with bamboo. Ihaven't been on the water with a plastic rod in years and see no reasonto start now. The inferior fishing properties of plastic does not cutit. Note I said fishing NOT casting. Why would I want a second ratefishing experience? Inferior fishing ability leads to the need ofplastic to heave your tackle 50 ft. Although my fishing buddies, when I can tolerate one or two, generallydon'tuse bamboo, I haven't fished anything else for quite some time either. Iadmit I kept trying to "get the hang" of graphite for a couple of yearsbecause... well, I must have thought there was some basis to the ad copy /sales talk. I still have a couple of expensive plastic rods, and try tosell them every now and then, but explanations of my reason for sellingthemare always met with a kind of disbelief. "No, really, why are you sellingthem," they ask as they whip them around and scan them for minuteimperfections. They can't seem to comprehend that I just don't enjoyusingthem. Davy from ragnarig@integrityol.com Sat Sep 26 11:02:04 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A2248FE024E; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 09:11:16 PDT Subject: Re: More Planing! Max, you took the words right out of my mouth! Davy Nice punch!, you make. I want to be the second on the water.Let's go out fishing with our beautiful hand-planed Bamboo Rod withbeautiful reel seat. Rivers are waiting.We are all fly fishers! Fish more fish, make more nicer rods! Make more friends on the river and on the list instead of making money.Are you going to stay so dark when and while fishing got prohibitedsoon?Isn't this list the only enjoyment while no fishing in cold winter? Vieteran!, teach us Nobis. Nobis!, ask vieterans questions foranything! I will show you a big Japanese IWANA which I fished with my Jim Payne200 next week, hopefully. Max -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHomePage:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169/indexe.html from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Sep 26 11:24:02 1998 Subject: Re: no more planing Richard,it must be great having an education? the only thing on my mind when Iwas youngwas avioding the clap!We only have one dictionary and that is under a table leg and the wife isstilleating. Rethinking, I would like to remove the phrase 'rodmaking slackers' andreplaceit with 'one eyed Luddites'.I hope this meets with your approval ?Terry Fallcreek9@aol.com wrote: Hello Terry: Up to your old tricks, I see. You sir, are a rascal; in themischievous vein, that is. According to my Merriam-Webster:Slacker: 1. Not using due diligence, care, or dispatch: NEGLIGENT2. a. Characterized by slowness, sluggishness, or lack ofenergyb. Moderate in some qualityc. Blowing or flowing at low speed3. a. Not tight or tautb. lacking in usual or normal firmness and steadiness:WEAK (slackmuscles)4. Wanting in activity: DULL5. lacking in completeness, finish, or perfection (a veryslack piece ofwork) In view of the above, most sees to describe power beveling/millinginstead ofhand planing. What say you now, Terrance? Regards,Richard-stirring the pot-Tyree from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Sep 26 11:51:37 1998 Subject: Re: no more planing Get, all of yor chest Tone, don't hold back now. If you feel the need toscreamandstamp your feet then feel free, you must never try to bottle a problem up.Your friend ,Terry Tony Young wrote: On Sat, 26 Sep 1998, Terence Ackland wrote: It was a big mistake, I just thought it would have been moreinteresting thanhomegrown cane. I know there are several very experienced builders outthere usingbevellers and it would have an interesting topic for discussion beforethechildren started screaming.Terry What discussion? I've got a secret and you've gota guess what it is?What's the point? /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from GLohkamp@aol.com Sat Sep 26 11:53:15 1998 Subject: Re: No more hand planning Wow talk about a lot of e-mails going around about this one. l havedeletedmost of them after l got the general ldea of whats going on . l think Terry is keeping with the long tradition of most of the old shopsthat used belevers and or mills. These machcines were their best keptsecerts. l can not recall ever being able to get a look at the powell saw , grangermill or even a good picture of what dickerson was using ,let a lone adetaileddisscussion of how to make a copy of one . lam just impressed that Terry even took the time to tell the list in thefirst place ...... Gary from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Sep 26 11:57:04 1998 Subject: Bitchiness Tony, I do not have to say some of you guys are wankers, you just keep provingit yourselves with perhaps a slight provocation.I have never once remarked that my fishing poles are the best. I am notpretentious enough to call them collector rods or museum quality items.In actual fact the only rods the FF museum is interested in is the rodsof the famous, no matter how shabby.I an not desperate to be famous like you guys. I do not attend shows orproduce glossy literature with flowery prose on what is essentially ablood sport.All I want to do is get a reasonable remuneration from rodmaking bymaking first class production rods. I enjoy rodmaking and would like todo it full time and hand planing is not an option.If I can get enough courage to quit my day job I know there is a marketout there and I am equipped, and if it did pan out I would have abusiness that would have some value that can be sold.The top end guys are struggling to sell their rods and what would happenif I helped them out? They would all forget their so called exquisitelyjewelled masterpieces and giving me a shafting.Terry You guys are shit scared of me for some reason, I do not know why. Youall keep ramming down my throat that what you are doing is more pure,artistic and collectable.You are not trying to convince me, you are trying to convinceyourselves.Terry from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sat Sep 26 12:23:54 1998 0500 Subject: Re: Bitchiness Terry,Congratulations on your achievement with your beveler. I hope it bringsyou much pleasure and profit, if that is your motive.Will you allow those whose motives are different from yours thefreedomto enjoy thier own pursuits as well, without being called slackers, etc?No, those of us who are different from you are not scared of you. Wejust don't like your demeanor, your criticisms, your arrogance. In short,I'm not scared of you, I just don't like you. 20-25 years ago I was a pretty good boxer. No mama's boy here. Well,whatI'm saying is, please back off. For some of us this is fun, most of thetime. Sincerely, Reverend Dr. Harry Boyd, Jr.fbcwin@fsbnet.com Terence Ackland wrote: Tony, I do not have to say some of you guys are wankers, you just keep provingit yourselves with perhaps a slight provocation.I have never once remarked that my fishing poles are the best. I am notpretentious enough to call them collector rods or museum quality items.In actual fact the only rods the FF museum is interested in is the rodsof the famous, no matter how shabby.I an not desperate to be famous like you guys. I do not attend shows orproduce glossy literature with flowery prose on what is essentially ablood sport.All I want to do is get a reasonable remuneration from rodmaking bymaking first class production rods. I enjoy rodmaking and would like todo it full time and hand planing is not an option.If I can get enough courage to quit my day job I know there is a marketout there and I am equipped, and if it did pan out I would have abusiness that would have some value that can be sold.The top end guys are struggling to sell their rods and what would happenif I helped them out? They would all forget their so called exquisitelyjewelled masterpieces and giving me a shafting.Terry You guys are shit scared of me for some reason, I do not know why. Youall keep ramming down my throat that what you are doing is more pure,artistic and collectable.You are not trying to convince me, you are trying to convinceyourselves.Terry from sjstill@iquest.net Sat Sep 26 12:57:48 1998 0000 (209.43.49.221) Subject: George Barnes? Hi All, Would anyone know of a current e-mail address for George Barnes up inMaine? TIA,SteveSteve and Julie StillabowerIndianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net from djfinch@sprintmail.com Sat Sep 26 14:01:42 1998 MAA13272 Subject: Re: no more planing Terence Ackland wrote: Rich,I can only take the list in small doses which I think works well for all ofus.I have just got back on the list and decided to let the builders know whatIhavebeen up to. I was very excited and just wanted to tell the group. Icertainlydidnot expect all the fuss when I refused to give details. I am a veryindependentbuilder and have always got the most pleasure out of finding my ownsolutions toproblems. I enjoy this more than the actual building of rods.It would not have crossed my mind to ask a builder the details of hisbevellerunless it was a commercial unit and it would only be to ask him if hewassatisfied with it.It was a big mistake, I just thought it would have been more interestingthanhomegrown cane. I know there are several very experienced builders out thereusingbevellers and it would have an interesting topic for discussion beforethechildren started screaming.Terry Dear Terry, you made it known , that you have made your beveller,good nowshut up and get down to the bank and make sure all your money is therebeforesomeone on the list puts you in a nursing home that has no computer orrodmakingstuff.,also I would never own a rolex,and the only person I am scared ofis myex-wife,god bless her black heart.,sign me tired of this thread. from mrbamboo@quik.com Sat Sep 26 14:37:24 1998 Subject: Milling Machine boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00FD_01BDE94A.88D42C60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00FD_01BDE94A.88D42C60 I have enjoyed all of your small talk regarding no more planing. If you =can remember back 2-3 years ago, I asked if anyone was using milling =machines or bevelers. This was my effort to see what interest there was=in using these machines. from the response there was little interest. I still plan on trying to educate the rodbuilders somewhat, since I have =only hand planed out 2 rods, and after that threw out the planing forms =to build a mill. To date I have built +500 rods which take me very =little time to make on the mill. This might not be traditional, but =look at all of the large mfgs. (Granger, Phillipson, Leonard, T&T, =etc...), they mill out their rods, and who's are he most sought after? Also, I had put up plans for the mill, an carbide cutters. What I had =not yet started writing on is how to sharpen the cutters, which I have =been doing since '92. Please don't get me wrong, handplaning is great = rods. If you want to go into business, the more power to you. That's my =two bits. Paul ------=_NextPart_000_00FD_01BDE94A.88D42C60 I have enjoyed all of your small = little interest. I still plan on trying to educate = rodbuilders somewhat, since I have only hand planed out 2 rods, and = traditional, but look at all of the large mfgs. (Granger, Phillipson, = T&T, etc...), they mill out their rods, and who's are he most sought = after? Also, I had put up plans for the = handplaning is great for the 1-2 rod rod maker, and milling is for those = you. That's my two bits. Paul ------=_NextPart_000_00FD_01BDE94A.88D42C60-- from RVenneri@aol.com Sat Sep 26 15:02:57 1998 Subject: Re: Milling Machine Hey Paul,Did you say you put up plans for your mill I would be very interested intaking a look If that's not asking to much. I am a Machinist and I love tosee other peoples design for tools. If you don't want to give it up Illunderstand. Best Regards, Bob VRobert Venneri's Custom Components21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882rvenneri@aol.com from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sat Sep 26 15:08:06 1998 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0200 Subject: no more planing - Final remarks ? PAA09909 Dear List serve members. I have taken the liberty of collecting in this mail some of Terry Acklandsmorecolorfull remarks about rodmakers, ithe list, wankers and other things andpersons, which, to his conviction, are of interest to all of us. I beg of Youtoread the quotations, think ithem over and then form Your own opinion: from sjstill@iquest.net Sat Sep 26 15:16:49 1998 (209.43.47.178) Subject: ROFF or Rodmakers? Maybe it is Terry's intention to be the George Gerke of the rodmakers list.I have no idea. I joined the list because of a deep desire to build bamboofly rods. The desire is coming to fruition at this time and I have usuallyenjoyed the banter on this normally informative list. Terry, if you don't want to share your blood sweat and tears, fine. Iadmire you for that. I might not either. But your slamming everyone andeverything that is not Terry bloody Ackland's outlook on life is danginfantile, I don't give a rat's red rump how old you are or where you camefrom. Good grief, let it pass, everyone, and move on to why we are here in thefirst place! And since we seem to be measuring sizes, I'm 38, 6'-6", about 190# and Ifigure that opinions are like noses, everyone has one and most of themsmellat one time or another! Respectfully, SteveSteve and Julie StillabowerIndianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net from bdcreek@grand-rapids.crosswinds.net Sat Sep 26 15:29:06 1998 (envelope- from bdcreek@grand-rapids.crosswinds.net) Subject: Re: Bitchiness Terry -No one is scared of you. We are just offended by your lack of tact andwit. I, and I imagine most of the list, wish you nothing but the best. Idon't know what I'd do with a final beveling machine, I like planes and oldtools, and making bamboo rods pleases me.Quit stirring up trouble and go build some fast action rods that aren'tbound by the traditions of the golden age of bamboo and the present over-useof semi-parabolics spawned by a bunch of ninnies slavishly wedded to theteachings of an amatuer rodmaker.(Oh my, did I just inadvertently repeat some of your ad copy?)Seriously, though, I've heard you build very servicable fishin' poles.If you can now make them as good with less discomfort and waste, you'recertainly going in the right direction.But it's not a direction we are all going to follow.Sorry. Brian Terence Ackland wrote: Tony, I do not have to say some of you guys are wankers, you just keep provingit yourselves with perhaps a slight provocation.I have never once remarked that my fishing poles are the best. I am notpretentious enough to call them collector rods or museum quality items.In actual fact the only rods the FF museum is interested in is the rodsof the famous, no matter how shabby.I an not desperate to be famous like you guys. I do not attend shows orproduce glossy literature with flowery prose on what is essentially ablood sport.All I want to do is get a reasonable remuneration from rodmaking bymaking first class production rods. I enjoy rodmaking and would like todo it full time and hand planing is not an option.If I can get enough courage to quit my day job I know there is a marketout there and I am equipped, and if it did pan out I would have abusiness that would have some value that can be sold.The top end guys are struggling to sell their rods and what would happenif I helped them out? They would all forget their so called exquisitelyjewelled masterpieces and giving me a shafting.Terry You guys are shit scared of me for some reason, I do not know why. Youall keep ramming down my throat that what you are doing is more pure,artistic and collectable.You are not trying to convince me, you are trying to convinceyourselves.Terry from WayneCatt@aol.com Sat Sep 26 15:32:51 1998 Subject: The Ins & Outs This is some of the information that Jon was asking for - instead ofkeeping it private I have chose to share for those who wish to read it. Books - The Garrison book is still the leader with some 26,000 copiesprinted- Mine has hit 9000 and is selling at a rate of about 1000 per year - JackHowells is doing reasonably well but the first run of 3000 isn't sold outyet- George Maurer 's will be out some - George did about 150 himself beforeapublisher picked it up - Ray Gould's will be out soon as well - but I amwonderig if the information I have is correct showing only 88 pages. Forthoseunfamiliar with the flyfishing book world - if a title sells 3000 it isconsidered a success. Many - many don't make that figure. Videos - about 2500 - with better than 1/2 being sold to the Japanesemarket -I attribute that to the visual overcoming the language - however thecontactI have there can speak english better than I can - they are veryprofessionalin business Makers - there are probably some 200 folks here in the US than can make abamboo fly rod - some like Al Medved make an excellent product but chosenotto sell them Available Classes - Lon Blauvelt - Maine - George Maurer - Pennsylvania -Chris Bogart - Washing (Virginia area) - Ralph Moon - Idaho - and I'm surethere are others -I think that Joe A. in Colorado is doing something one onone as well. I have left out The White River Artisian School - because thatclass has been taught by those mentioned above. Students - I would say that each year there are some 20 students nationwide Costs - $800 mostly - Gee I wonder where that figure came from Arrangements - If you are doing a class of size - one that requires morethanjust a basement shop - you need to figure in the overhead of space - thenas apackage food - Personally I have a lease arrangement on the clubhousethatcosts $3320 per year - that covers personal use - classes (space and food)-Rodmakers in Grayrock Material Costs - $92/rod made - that is with the best quality everything Class size - form one on one to a max of seven - beyond that figure thereisn't enough quality time per individual Hours required - about 80 to make ferruled blanks with handle mountedandshaped - BIG SECRET - even though the ad says one tipped rod - for thepast 21/2 years everyone has made 2 tipped rods Student anticipation - to gather enough knowledge and skill to producewhatwould be a $800 finished rod - in other words to be able to leave class andsell or swap rods of that value range. Tools - A BIG issue - each treats this differently - my belief is that theinstructor should provide ALL needed tools - if you have put together 1 set -MAJOR investment - Because my kids pitched a fit with me using theirtools inclass I personally own 10 complete sets of forms and hand tools. Comments - I think that teaching classes is a tossup - I could make justasmuch money if I were to use the same time to just make rods. But theyshouldbe viewed the same as rodmaking in general - it's not the money it theenjoyment it brings. NONE of us are ever going to make a like incomeproducingrods as what we will with our 'Real Jobs' - I see those that are doing itandI realize that it wouldn't be fair in providing for my family if I were totake the financial cut that rodmaking fulltime would represent for me.As much as I have enjoyed all the classes that I have done - the onethatstands out is the time it was just Luis and I for a week - we made a rod -hada few beer and a tower of onion rings or two - and I sat and share with agentleman - a story teller - who share of his many adventure throughouttheworld. We all may have the dream of being the next Garrison - but inchasingthat dream remember that individually you will never know - it is only indeath that icons form - I would hold out a mirror for each to look into andask - Is it for the money or the fame??? - If you answer yes to either Ifeelthat you are missing the forest for the trees. from rcurry@top.monad.net Sat Sep 26 15:47:22 1998 Subject: Remove Stress Curves All,We have entered the time when the water is too low to fish thestreams,and the S.O. has finally realized that all the yard work she hadassigned to you for the summer had been successfully avoided. You'veused up the last vestiges of guilt-free fun by attending the RoscoeGathering.I am developing a new computer program which will determine theGWQ(GoodWill Quotient) for certain domestic activities. Simply input theamount of time (not labour) spent on the tasks and it will graph a curveindicating the fishing/rodbuilding time possible before DB(DomesticBliss) is violated. Of course, this needs to be weighted, just as youwould with the amount of line thrown, by the TI(Tranquility Index). TheTI is the ST(Spousal Tolerance) divided by the AG(Allowable Guilt; e.g.,how well do you like sleeping on the pull-out bed).I'll willingly share the results. This could be very liberating forall.Best regards,Reed from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sat Sep 26 16:04:25 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Sat,26Sep 1998 17:11:13 -0400 Subject: Re: George Barnes? "George W. Barnes" On 26 Sep 98, at 12:57, Steve Stillabower wrote: Hi All, Would anyone know of a current e-mail address for George Barnes up inMaine? TIA,SteveSteve and Julie StillabowerIndianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net ICQ 19299644 Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sat Sep 26 16:04:50 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Sat,26Sep 1998 17:11:14 -0400 Subject: Re: No more hand planning Granted i am a youngin....but the experience I have had with tool makers thus far is this. Tell them what you want....little waste...precision, and you can get. Might cost you a bunch but it is available. The fact is...unless it's for sale commercially, most people will never mess with trying to make one. The economics don't allow it. That's probably why it took Terry two years. I know of at least one rodmaker who can put six strips in a machine...hit enter...walk away...and come back to a highly precise, ready to glue, finished section. Cost a bunch, but his retirement fund was already taken care of. On 26 Sep 98, at 12:52, GLohkamp@aol.com wrote: Wow talk about a lot of e-mails going around about this one. l havedeletedmost of them after l got the general ldea of whats going on . l think Terry is keeping with the long tradition of most of the oldshopsthat used belevers and or mills. These machcines were their best keptsecerts . l can not recall ever being able to get a look at the powell saw, granger mill or even a good picture of what dickerson was using ,let alone a detailed disscussion of how to make a copy of one . lam just impressed that Terry even took the time to tell the list inthefirst place ...... Gary Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from jcole10@juno.com Sat Sep 26 17:08:51 1998 18:08:47 EDT Subject: Re: no more planing TerryPlease get off Richard's back. He's one of the good guys. I'm new at rodmaking and Richard has given me lots of good advice and has even invitedme to visit his shop and answer any questions I have about rod making. Ofcourse most of the people on the list are like Richard and are willing toshare information. I think originally most people were excited that youhad this great idea -- sorry, most don't seem to be sharing yourexcitment now.John Cole On Sat, 26 Sep 1998 12:25:15 -0400 Terence Ackland writes:Richard,it must be great having an education? the only thing on my mind when I was youngwas avioding the clap!We only have one dictionary and that is under a table leg and the wife is stilleating. Rethinking, I would like to remove the phrase 'rodmaking slackers' and replaceit with 'one eyed Luddites'.I hope this meets with your approval ?Terry Fallcreek9@aol.com wrote: Hello Terry: Up to your old tricks, I see. You sir, are a rascal; in themischievous vein, that is. According to my Merriam-Webster:Slacker: 1. Not using due diligence, care, or dispatch: NEGLIGENT2. a. Characterized by slowness, sluggishness, or lack ofenergyb. Moderate in some qualityc. Blowing or flowing at low speed3. a. Not tight or tautb. lacking in usual or normal firmness and steadiness:WEAK (slackmuscles)4. Wanting in activity: DULL5. lacking in completeness, finish, or perfection (a veryslack piece ofwork) In view of the above, most sees to describe power beveling/milling instead ofhand planing. What say you now, Terrance? Regards,Richard-stirring the pot-Tyree from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sat Sep 26 17:33:13 1998 Subject: Re: no more planing In a message dated 9/26/98 11:31:39 AM Central Daylight Time,hexagon@odyssee.net writes: That will do just fine. Like I tell my wife, call me anything but late forsupper.Keep up the good......er, ah......Well, cheers, Terry RTyree Ps - in all seriousness, carpel problems and chain-saw elbow (there is awholenother story there) are forcing me also to consider other options and Ienvyyour ability to solve yours directly. from ragnarig@integrityol.com Sat Sep 26 19:42:42 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id AC36A96024E; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 17:52:06 PDT Subject: Re: Milling Machine boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0184_01BDE974.ABE176C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0184_01BDE974.ABE176C0 Paul This is what I'm always saying, and I'm not being excessively bitter =about my past experiences. No, it's just some information I collected =at a rather high price. The fact is that, generally speaking, a guy =who wants to sell his handicrafts will be well advised to apply a =bullet-proof finish, have some slick looking decals made and otherwise =try to make his stuff look just like it was factory-produced and =packaged than to go insane trying to find the perfect taper or =incorporate any really innovative and artsy features into it. Some of =the guys on this list, and maybe a couple dozen others, will appreciate =the latter approach but the great numbers of enthusiasts with the money =to actually buy them will be more attracted by the former. Remember the thread about "snob appeal"? Well, without resorting to =inflammatory rhetoric, the kind of guy who is squarely in the sights of =the bamboo rodmaker has a peer group to whom he has to justify his =expenditure. If he buys a rod from a relative unknown he's going to =hear something like, "Oh, man, you could have bought a top-of-the-line =Winston for that!" Or a used Edwards or Payne, depending on his =friends. That great pool of sophisticated aficionados which populate our =fantasies are not likely to ever materialize in greater numbers than the = cutters, give me a hoot off-list and I can probably square you away. best,DavyI still plan on trying to educate the rodbuilders somewhat, since I =have only hand planed out 2 rods, and after that threw out the planing =forms to build a mill. To date I have built +500 rods which take me =very little time to make on the mill. This might not be traditional, =but look at all of the large mfgs. (Granger, Phillipson, Leonard, T&T, =etc...), they mill out their rods, and who's are he most sought after? Also, I had put up plans for the mill, an carbide cutters. What I =had not yet started writing on is how to sharpen the cutters, which I =have been doing since '92. Please don't get me wrong, handplaning is =great for the 1-2 rod rod maker, and milling is for those who make =hundreds of rods. If you want to go into business, the more power to =you. That's my two bits. Paul ------=_NextPart_000_0184_01BDE974.ABE176C0 Paul This is what I'm always saying, and I'm not being = speaking, a guy who wants to sell his handicrafts will be well advised = a bullet-proof finish, have some slick looking decals made and otherwise = make his stuff look just like it was factory-produced and packaged than = insane trying to find the perfect taper or incorporate any really = dozen others, will appreciate the latter approach but the great numbers = enthusiasts with the money to actually buy them will be more attracted = former. Remember the thread about "snob = without resorting to inflammatory rhetoric, the kind of guy who is = the sights of the bamboo rodmaker has a peer group to whom he has to = something like, "Oh, man, you could have bought a top-of-the-line = friends. That great pool of sophisticated aficionados which = our fantasies are not likely to ever materialize in greater numbers than = vast numbers of media-herded weenies we all know and... = = sharpen your cutters, give me a hoot off-list and I can probably square = away. best,Davy I still plan on trying to = rodbuilders somewhat, since I have only hand planed out 2 rods, and = might not be traditional, but look at all of the large mfgs. = Phillipson, Leonard, T&T, etc...), they mill out their rods, and = are he most sought after? Also, I had put up plans for the= get me wrong, handplaning is great for the 1-2 rod rod maker, and = the more power to you. That's my two bits. Paul ------=_NextPart_000_0184_01BDE974.ABE176C0-- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat Sep 26 21:28:17 1998 Sun, 27 Sep 1998 10:28:09 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Bitchiness On Sat, 26 Sep 1998, Terence Ackland wrote: You guys are shit scared of me for some reason, I do not know why. Youall keep ramming down my throat that what you are doing is more pure,artistic and collectable.You are not trying to convince me, you are trying to convinceyourselves.Terry Surely you jest? Terry believe me when I say that if I met you at a pub I'd tell all this to your face unless you are a 120lb henpecked anemic winging POM, I can't tell from this side of your keyboard (sorry to all the Brits out there but you know what I mean). If you in fact turn out to be the above I'd put it all down to you being a "list Rambo" which I suspect you are. Otherwise I'd possibly consider you to be some poor tourmented soul in serious need of a doctor.It's funny you mention the word wanker, I guess you'd certainly know one being one of the all time greats.Frankly I don't give a rat's arse about your sausage machine or your degenerative comments it's just that from what I can see most on this list are decent polite people undeserving of your diatribe bullshit that dribbles from your mouth. All this baiting and big fish in a little pond stuff wears a bit thin after a while.Grow up.Your turn, but I'm sick of wasting my time with you. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from mrbamboo@quik.com Sat Sep 26 21:46:41 1998 Subject: Re: Milling Machine boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01BDE986.9A7525A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BDE986.9A7525A0 -----Original Message-----From: David Date: Sunday, September 27, 1998 12:42 AMSubject: Re: Milling Machine Paul This is what I'm always saying, and I'm not being excessively bitter =about my past experiences. No, it's just some information I collected =at a rather high price. The fact is that, generally speaking, a guy =who wants to sell his handicrafts will be well advised to apply a =bullet-proof finish, have some slick looking decals made and otherwise =try to make his stuff look just like it was factory-produced and =packaged than to go insane trying to find the perfect taper or =incorporate any really innovative and artsy features into it. Some of =the guys on this list, and maybe a couple dozen others, will appreciate =the latter approach but the great numbers of enthusiasts with the money =to actually buy them will be more attracted by the former. Remember the thread about "snob appeal"? Well, without resorting to =inflammatory rhetoric, the kind of guy who is squarely in the sights of =the bamboo rodmaker has a peer group to whom he has to justify his =expenditure. If he buys a rod from a relative unknown he's going to =hear something like, "Oh, man, you could have bought a top-of-the-line =Winston for that!" Or a used Edwards or Payne, depending on his =friends. That great pool of sophisticated aficionados which populate our =fantasies are not likely to ever materialize in greater numbers than the = cutters, give me a hoot off-list and I can probably square you away. best,Davy I trully agree!! Also, we are our own enemies, telling the poor guy =who just bought that no-name rod that he could have had the best if he =only bought.... Thanks for the offer re; sharpening cutters, but I currently do my =own sharpening. Paul ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BDE986.9A7525A0 -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sunday, September 27, 1998 12:42 AMSubject: Re: = MachinePaul This is what I'm always saying, and I'm not = that, generally speaking, a guy who wants to sell his handicrafts = well advised to apply a bullet-proof finish, have some slick looking = factory-produced and packaged than to go insane trying to find the = taper or incorporate any really innovative and artsy features into = Some of the guys on this list, and maybe a couple dozen others, will = appreciate the latter approach but the great numbers of enthusiasts = former. Remember the thread about "snob = Well, without resorting to inflammatory rhetoric, the kind of guy = squarely in the sights of the bamboo rodmaker has a peer group to = unknown he's going to hear something like, "Oh, man, you could = Payne, depending on his friends. That great pool of sophisticated aficionados = populate our fantasies are not likely to ever materialize in greater = sharpen your cutters, give me a hoot off-list and I can probably = away. best,Davy = enemies, telling the poor guy who just bought that no-name rod that = have had the best if he only bought.... Thanks for the offer re; sharpening cutters, but = currently do my own sharpening. Paul ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BDE986.9A7525A0-- from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sat Sep 26 22:12:51 1998 Subject: Re: Bitchiness In a message dated 9/26/98 9:33:31 PM Central Daylight Time,tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au writes: POM and wanker. Now there are two NOT in my Merriam-Webster. Terryand Tony,enlighten us, please!RT from ragnarig@integrityol.com Sat Sep 26 22:14:00 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id AFB233B01FC; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 20:23:30 PDT Subject: Re: Reel plans Just an update on those reel plans from MI '51: I've still got a few sets ofextra copies incase anybody wants them- no charge- Turns out they didn'tneed extra postage. Just send me your snail address and be patient :-) havingserver problems as usual. Davy from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sat Sep 26 22:18:28 1998 (modemcable241.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: E-mail BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_6ZxZ8AuTk7xUFQlACk9oJQ)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_6ZxZ8AuTk7xUFQlACk9oJQ) As a software designer, I pretty much live on the internet. It is a trulyfabulous communication medium that has brought old friends together andforged new ones through virtual communities such as ours. As wonderfulasthis technology is, I have seen over the last few years, marriages andbusiness partnerships deteriorate largely through the use of e-mail. Thereis an inherent distance involved in e-mail which can easily be detrimental.When we speak with someone in person, our tone of voice, body language,facial expressions, work together to convey our desired meaning. In e-mail,our printed words are our only tools. Picture the discussion we've been having over the last view days takingplace in a pub rather than a mailing list. We're seated around a couple oftables discussing issues such as hand-planing versus beveling, automationversus tradition, creating rods for money versus creating rods forpersonalpleasure. At times, voices would raise, view points would clash. I honestlybelieve, however, that at the end of the evening, egos and feelings wouldnot be bruised as they are today. More likely, the end of the discussionwould probably contain partings such as "you're really an asshole. You buythe round next week." My only advice in all this is to picture any perceived verbal assault coming from someone with a silly grin on his face. Jabs always sound worst ine-mail than in person. The other side of the equation is to remember thatyou can easily get away with calling someone an asshole in person butprobably can't through e-mail. Richard --Boundary_(ID_6ZxZ8AuTk7xUFQlACk9oJQ) software designer, I pretty much live on the internet. It is a truly = communication medium that has brought old friends together and forged = through virtual communities such as ours. As wonderful as this = I have seen over the last few years, marriages and business = deteriorate largely through the use of e-mail. There is an inherent = involved in e-mail which can easily be detrimental. When we speak with = work = to convey our desired meaning. In e-mail, our printed words are our only = Picture the discussion we've been having over the last view = place in a pub rather than a mailing list. We're seated around a couple = tables discussing issues such as hand-planing versus beveling, = tradition, creating rods for money versus creating rods for personal = At times, voices would raise, view points would clash. I honestly = however, that at the end of the evening, egos and feelings would not be = as they are today. More likely, the end of the discussion would probably = week." only advice in all this is to picture any perceived verbal assault = someone with a silly grin on his face. Jabs always sound worst in e-mail = person. The other side of the equation is to remember that you can = away with calling someone an asshole in person but probably can't = e-mail. Richard --Boundary_(ID_6ZxZ8AuTk7xUFQlACk9oJQ)-- from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Sep 26 22:19:24 1998 Subject: Re: Re: no more planing Not only have we shared our blood and treasure all over Europe and Asiabut Ibelieve the dichotomy between the haves and have nots is far greater inEuropethan here, if that means anything(which I'm not sure it does, mypoliticallycorrect friends notwithstanding). Having said that I find Terry's thoughtsonsharing his machinery to be reasonable (horrors-Terry reasonable?!) Justmy$0.02Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Sep 26 22:19:26 1998 Subject: Re: Re: no more planing Hey, Steve,I'm 65 and been rolled on by numerous horses,seperated shoulder,brokenneck, etc. So much arthritis I can't sleep at night but I plane between 10and20 rods a year with no fingers on my right hand (maybe I'm accidentprone-onsecond thought I don't think I'll get a lathe). In any case I enjoy planingnow that I keep my blades sharp and my finishes are passable. Of course aTomMorgan hand mill might be usefull if only for pent and quadrate rods. Iunderstand that Tom Maxwell will be coming out with a beveller that willgodown to final- he told me it would be around $2000.Regards,Hank. from stpete@netten.net Sat Sep 26 22:55:04 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA00553 for Subject: Hurricane Georges To Harry Boyd, Kurt Loup and any other New Orleans area rodmakers, Life's too short to worry about things you cannot change. Here's hopingyou and your kith and kin fare well in the coming storm. Batten downthe hatches and hold each other tight. I fear we may see nature at herworst and humanity at its best in the next day or two. Good luck, Rick CrenshawMemphis from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Sep 27 00:24:13 1998 Sun, 27 Sep 1998 13:24:05 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Hurricane Georges On Sat, 26 Sep 1998, Rick Crenshaw wrote: To Harry Boyd, Kurt Loup and any other New Orleans area rodmakers, Life's too short to worry about things you cannot change. Here's hopingyou and your kith and kin fare well in the coming storm. Batten downthe hatches and hold each other tight. I fear we may see nature at herworst and humanity at its best in the next day or two. Good luck, Rick CrenshawMemphis This sounds serious. Take heart. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Sep 27 00:32:16 1998 Sun, 27 Sep 1998 13:32:06 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: E-mail On Sat, 26 Sep 1998, Richard Nantel wrote: As a software designer, I pretty much live on the internet. It is a trulyfabulous communication medium that has brought old friends togetherandforged new ones through virtual communities such as ours. As wonderfulasthis technology is, I have seen over the last few years, marriages andbusiness partnerships deteriorate largely through the use of e-mail.Thereis an inherent distance involved in e-mail which can easily bedetrimental.When we speak with someone in person, our tone of voice, body language,facial expressions, work together to convey our desired meaning. In e-mail,our printed words are our only tools. Picture the discussion we've been having over the last view days takingplace in a pub rather than a mailing list. We're seated around a couple oftables discussing issues such as hand-planing versus beveling,automationversus tradition, creating rods for money versus creating rods forpersonalpleasure. At times, voices would raise, view points would clash. Ihonestlybelieve, however, that at the end of the evening, egos and feelings wouldnot be bruised as they are today. More likely, the end of the discussionwould probably contain partings such as "you're really an asshole. Youbuythe round next week." My only advice in all this is to picture any perceived verbal assaultcoming from someone with a silly grin on his face. Jabs always sound worst ine-mail than in person. The other side of the equation is to remember thatyou can easily get away with calling someone an asshole in person butprobably can't through e-mail. Richard I'm willing to bet Terry couldn't care less about all my and other comments particually as he is a shit stirer and enjoys all this.The reason I mentioned saying things to Terry's face in a pub is that it'd all be said over (quite)a few beers and Terry would prob stand the first round (of beers).You need to remember POMs and we colonials don't feel the restraint to be polite to a fault, I try to make cultural allowances but Terry is Terry. Terry is all the things said, but he's our Terry ;-) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Sep 27 00:41:41 1998 Sun, 27 Sep 1998 13:41:35 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Bitchiness On Sat, 26 Sep 1998 Fallcreek9@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 9/26/98 9:33:31 PM Central Daylight Time,tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au writes: ...It's funny you mention the word wanker, I guess you'd certainly know .... POM and wanker. Now there are two NOT in my Merriam-Webster. Terryand Tony,enlighten us, please!RT POM is easy. It's a shortening of POME which is said to be "Prisoners Of Mother England". Generaly speaking an Englishman is a POM until he proves himself to be a real person, then he becomes some-one who can't help where he's from ;-) You can remain a POM your entire life regardless of how long you've left the UK and your current citizenship. Terry is proud to be a POM. * PLEASE NOTE * I was asked this question and I have tried to answer it as well as I can. If you are an Englishman please do not take offence, none is intended. Wanker, tricky to explain on a family listserv. Terry could possiblyexplain. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from chris@artistree.com Sun Sep 27 01:32:20 1998 XAA28712 Subject: Desperately seeking replacement hardware Was wondering if anyone had a Horrocks & Ibbotson Reel Seat (Plasticdown lock spacer with threads or maybe even a metal version) that isneed of a good home. I am also looking for a few pairs of H&I and/orMontague ferrules (chrome plated brass or nickle silver) as well. Ifanyone can help please contact me off list to discuss.--Thank for your time, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Sun Sep 27 02:15:31 1998 ; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 19:15:27 +1200 Subject: Re: no more planing wow Hank .. with your history I would not suggest you go near one of theseautomatic cutting machines ..:)) iank At 11:18 PM 26/09/98 EDT, you wrote:Hey, Steve,I'm 65 and been rolled on by numerous horses,seperated shoulder,brokenneck, etc. So much arthritis I can't sleep at night but I plane between 10and20 rods a year with no fingers on my right hand (maybe I'm accidentprone-onsecond thought I don't think I'll get a lathe). In any case I enjoy planingnow that I keep my blades sharp and my finishes are passable. Of course aTomMorgan hand mill might be usefull if only for pent and quadrate rods. Iunderstand that Tom Maxwell will be coming out with a beveller that willgodown to final- he told me it would be around $2000.Regards,Hank. Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz from mbleak@telepath.com Sun Sep 27 03:28:41 1998 bytelepath.com (8.9.0/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA14094 for Subject: Re: Bitchiness POM and wanker. Now there are two NOT in my Merriam-Webster. Terry and Tony,POM is easy. It's a shortening of POME which is said to be "Prisoners OfMother England". Generaly speaking an Englishman is a POM until heproveshimself to be a real person, Wanker is a derisive tem similar to "jerk off" it carries with it anundertone ofinsecure,and doubtful manliness. Pom is another derisive term that I'mglad Tonycleared up, as I thought it might refer to "pomade", the oily and smellyhair gooone might expect on the Edwardian gentry, or perhaps from the selfexplanatory"pompous" englishman. Having been born in London to an Irish mom (whoknows maybeDad went to Australia, or Canada!) I know the term "wanker" first hand,more thanafew times. Fortunately for me, my mother married an american aviator,and wemovedto Grand Junction Colorado where there are trout to be fished for. Nowthat was35years ago,so now I want to build a bamboo flyrod like the one my (step)fathergotme when I was a boy. To that end, I will that Tony and Terry could be facetofacein that pub, perhaps, knock each other around a bit and then get on withcontributing positively to the list as you each have done often in the past.Half way of the mind that you two could get along fine after a few. I'llbuy therounds,...and of course sing :)"If it should fallUpon my lotThat I should rise and you should notThen I'll gently riseAnd softly callGoodnight and may GodBe with you all Peace my friends,Mike from anglport@con2.com Sun Sep 27 07:07:46 1998 Subject: Re: Reel plans Okay, Davy, you hooked me. May I have a set? I've been looking through myworkshop since the first posting for a copy that had that wooden one in it(which I'm SURE I had at one time---or at least a photocopy of same) butI'mdamned if I can find the infernal thing!If I recall, this is the metal one?The address is: Art Port37 Ardsley StStaten Island, 10306, NY Thanks, Art At 08:10 PM 9/26/98 -0700, you wrote: Just an update on those reel plans from MI '51: I've still got a few sets ofextra copies incase anybody wants them- no charge- Turns out they didn'tneed extra postage. Just send me your snail address and be patient :-) havingserver problems as usual. Davy from saltwein@swbell.net Sun Sep 27 07:23:13 1998 gw1adm.rcsntx.swbell.net HAA26370 Subject: Re: The Ins & Outs Makers - there are probably some 200 folks here in the US than can makeabamboo fly rod - some like Al Medved make an excellent product butchose nots. Wayne, I enjoyed your piece. What was your criteria for the above statement? It seems to me that there has to be many more than 200 if The BambooFlyrod has 12,000 subscribers. How many people are there on the list? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO P.S. My motivation: Pleasure and Self Satisfaction. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Sep 27 08:14:38 1998 Sun, 27 Sep 1998 21:14:30 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Bitchiness On Sun, 27 Sep 1998, Michael bleakley wrote: insecure,and doubtful manliness. Pom is another derisive term that I'mgladTonycleared up, as I thought it might refer to "pomade", the oily and smellyhairgooone might expect on the Edwardian gentry, or perhaps from the selfexplanatory"pompous" englishman. Having been born in London to an Irish mom (whoknowsmaybeDad went to Australia, or Canada!) I know the term "wanker" first hand,morethan afew times. Fortunately for me, my mother married an american aviator,and wemovedto Grand Junction Colorado where there are trout to be fished for. Nowthat was35years ago,so now I want to build a bamboo flyrod like the one my (step)fathergotme when I was a boy. To that end, I will that Tony and Terry could beface tofacein that pub, perhaps, knock each other around a bit and then get on withcontributing positively to the list as you each have done often in thepast.Half way of the mind that you two could get along fine after a few. I'llbuytherounds,... You could be right re. the POM. There are a few stories about it's origin but a rose by any name is still a rose as it were.There is no way Terry would take any of this to heart, and nor should anybody else in fact, anybody as bombastic as Terry would be disapointed otherwise. Still, enough is enough as there are new people on the list who may well be intimated by this behavour and if I've lowered the standard of the list by way of helping to encourage bad form I'm sorry.I meant it all but I'm sorry. rods on my own. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Sep 27 08:21:04 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Fishing Bamboo A.J.,I have fished bamboo almost exclusively since I started over 30 years ago. Mydad gave me and my brother his bamboo rods , Heddons and So. Bends. Along theway I have picked up Montagues, Hardys, Paynes , Phillipsons, Leonards andOrvis bamboo rods to add to my collection. I never even owned a graphiteroduntil Orvis gave me one of their new Tridents a couple of years ago. Theonlytime I use the graphite rod is when I am in my drift boat and I know therewill be some one else with me to share the rowing. I have taken a lot ofabuse from the graphite crowd because of my rods of choice.Bret from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sun Sep 27 08:22:32 1998 0500 Subject: Re: Hurricane Georges (and SRG info) Thanks Rick, and Tony,We're about 250 miles from the coast, much closer to Arkansas than tothe Gulf of Mexico. I just became host to 50-100 house guests. Ourchurchhas been named one of the official evacuation centers. By the way, any ofyou from South of here are welcome at our place. I'll even put you in thehouse, not the gym at the church. Just give me a call @ (318)435-2278, or435- 4359.My wife is worried that I will be delayed leaving for the RodmakersGathering. Methinks she frets too much. I've got a great staff here whocan take care of almost anything. Unless it gets much worse here than Iexpect or weather reports indicate, I'll be leaving Tuesday morning,arriving at Norfork around noon.Those of you who are able to attend the gathering and arrive early, lookme up. I'll be in a black Mazda MPV (van) with Louisiana license plates.My cell phone will be on, but I probably won't be near. The number is(318)282-2825. I'd love to get to know a few of you before Thursday,maybeeven wet a line together.I'll give explicit directions on where the gathering will be held latertoday. See you on the River,Harry Rick Crenshaw wrote: To Harry Boyd, Kurt Loup and any other New Orleans area rodmakers, Life's too short to worry about things you cannot change. Here's hopingyou and your kith and kin fare well in the coming storm. Batten downthe hatches and hold each other tight. I fear we may see nature at herworst and humanity at its best in the next day or two. Good luck, Rick CrenshawMemphis from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Sep 27 08:44:08 1998 Subject: Collector rods Hi gang,what makes an object or or product collectable? Why do people spendmoney on Beaney Babies and mass produced sports cards? Franklin Minthave a whole range of collectable goodies with certificates ofauthenticity include in the price.A few years ago a friend in a local fly shop called me up and arranged all sorts of money and always paid cash.I met the man and he wanted me to build him a rod just for him. Hetalked of gold, silver and Ivory and a special certificate made out tohim. I half listened and drank the beer he was buying. I ended uptelling the guy that I would think about it.A couple of weeks later I visited the fly shop to meet the guy again andto see some gear he had purchased. I was shown knives that cost him afortune." Look at the detail in that hand engraving," he said. To me itwas just photo etching. He then showed me a collector rod he hadpurchased from a builder for a tidy sum of bucks. It was not a rod forfishing that is for sure. It was about 6ft long in three pieces and went from the size of your thumb to 1/32. he then showed me some old usedclunkers he had purchased in Kennebunkport.I left and called my friend back later and explained that I was notinterested in building the guy a rod, I said that how could I predictthat the rod I made would be collectable. My friend said and do notworry and take his cash for the guy is under the table himself. I couldnot, the guy had already purchased enough junk without me adding to it. If an article is advertised as being 'collectable' is it reallycollectable or is it is just hype to catch customers?Terry from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Sep 27 08:45:20 1998 Subject: wanker(wanking) Ok, lets see,sit in a chair and imagin you have, say, a small furry mammal on yourlap and you also have an imaginary dagger. Now proceed to start stabbingthe rabbit furiously.Do not try this in front of daughters. Teenage sons and wives willprobably find it amusing.Terry ( bringing culture to the list) from rcochran@cadvision.com Sun Sep 27 08:57:56 1998 Subject: Re: Reel plans Hi DavyI've kept an Ieye out for your posting on the plans and just picked up on this. I'dappreciate a set.Robert Cochrane331 Abadan Place NE Calgary AlbertaT2A 6P3Canada Thanksbest regardsRobert At 08:28 AM 9/27/98 -0400, you wrote:Okay, Davy, you hooked me. May I have a set? I've been looking through myworkshop since the first posting for a copy that had that wooden one in it(which I'm SURE I had at one time---or at least a photocopy of same) butI'mdamned if I can find the infernal thing!If I recall, this is the metal one?The address is: Art Port37 Ardsley StStaten Island, 10306, NY Thanks, Art At 08:10 PM 9/26/98 -0700, you wrote: Just an update on those reel plans from MI '51: I've still got a few setsofextra copies incase anybody wants them- no charge- Turns out theydidn'tneed extra postage. Just send me your snail address and be patient :-) havingserver problems as usual. Davy rcochran@cadvision.com from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Sep 27 09:22:29 1998 Subject: Re: The Ins & Outs Steve -The figure is from the address book that I keep - Granted it is still aquess but and educated one. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Sep 27 09:22:31 1998 Subject: Bitchiness ENOUGH IS ENOUGH Tony, Terry and list,I have said this before and I will say it again if you have a problem withsomeone and their remarks on this list why don't you do the bitching andbantering off this list. I joined to get info and to share info on rodbuilding and not to look at or listen to a bunch of cry baby bull s--t. I hada problem awhile back with someone on the list and I contacted them offthelist and they put my remarks on the list instead of being man enough tokeepit private. I thought that this was very inappropriate and told him so. Iwas going to buy one of his quad rods and had even gotten the brochure andwasin the process of ordering when this happened so I bought someone elsesrod.I for one am to old to listen to this so why don't you guys cool it and getonwith life. If you think Terry or anyone else is a jerk or wanker tell themOFF THIS LIST. If this has offended anyone tell me off the list, but enoughis enough. It reminds me off of bunch of little kids so I will just take myball and go home. Get the drift boys.Bret from jaquin@netsync.net Sun Sep 27 09:25:42 1998 quartz.netsync.net(8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA20299 for ;Sun, 27 Sep1998 10:25:27 -0400 Subject: Re: George Barnes? Steve Stillabower wrote: Hi All, Would anyone know of a current e-mail address for George Barnes up inMaine? TIA,SteveSteve and Julie StillabowerIndianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net ICQ 19299644George BarnesRFD #1 Box 95South Harpswell, ME 04079gwbarnes@gwi.netHastings, from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Sep 27 09:37:19 1998 Sun, 27 Sep 1998 22:37:12 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Collector rods On Sun, 27 Sep 1998, Terence Ackland wrote: Hi gang,what makes an object or or product collectable? Why do people spendmoney on Beaney Babies and mass produced sports cards? Franklin Minthave a whole range of collectable goodies with certificates ofauthenticity include in the price.A few years ago a friend in a local fly shop called me up and arranged all sorts of money and always paid cash.I met the man and he wanted me to build him a rod just for him. Hetalked of gold, silver and Ivory and a special certificate made out tohim. I half listened and drank the beer he was buying. I ended uptelling the guy that I would think about it.A couple of weeks later I visited the fly shop to meet the guy again andto see some gear he had purchased. I was shown knives that cost him afortune." Look at the detail in that hand engraving," he said. To me itwas just photo etching. He then showed me a collector rod he hadpurchased from a builder for a tidy sum of bucks. It was not a rod forfishing that is for sure. It was about 6ft long in three pieces and went from the size of your thumb to 1/32. he then showed me some old usedclunkers he had purchased in Kennebunkport.I left and called my friend back later and explained that I was notinterested in building the guy a rod, I said that how could I predictthat the rod I made would be collectable. My friend said and do notworry and take his cash for the guy is under the table himself. I couldnot, the guy had already purchased enough junk without me adding to it. If an article is advertised as being 'collectable' is it reallycollectable or is it is just hype to catch customers?Terry Zero argument. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Sep 27 09:38:14 1998 Sun, 27 Sep 1998 22:38:07 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: wanker(wanking) On Sun, 27 Sep 1998, Terence Ackland wrote: Ok, lets see,sit in a chair and imagin you have, say, a small furry mammal on yourlap and you also have an imaginary dagger. Now proceed to start stabbingthe rabbit furiously.Do not try this in front of daughters. Teenage sons and wives willprobably find it amusing.Terry ( bringing culture to the list) I knew you'd explain it better than I could. Such eloquence. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Sep 27 09:39:36 1998 Subject: for tone Tone, I have trashed probably the last 20 of your bitchiness threadswithout reading them.If I see you name besides a contribution I will trash it unread.I suggest you do the same.Terry from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Sep 27 09:54:10 1998 Subject: Re: Collector rods In a message dated 9/27/98 1:47:13 PM, you wrote: If the item is new, you are most likely being hyped. No one can reallypredictwhat will actually be collectible in the future, but if I were to guess, Iwould pick something with the highest intrinsic level of quality, notsomething gold plated. from amcsmith@nlis.net Sun Sep 27 10:02:59 1998 Subject: Re:hand planing I enjoy this list very much would like to drink with most of you in apub and respect terry's rigth to share what ever he chooses to. I feelthat for most of us newbies the list is our best option for learningand that the generocity of list member's with info and recsorce'sin inspiring I did not care much for terry's tone but you get thegood with the bad on thease thing's and I'll happily accept thatchris smithparidise porter me. ps. what kind of wine goes with grilled ackland ? from rcurry@top.monad.net Sun Sep 27 10:44:01 1998 Subject: Re: Collector rods collectable or is it is just hype to catch customers?Terry>>Terry,AN item is collectible based upon (projected) scarcity. Hence, JimPayne's fly rods doubled in price the day he died. I am NOT suggestingthis as a course of action for anyone.Mark Twain wrote a delightful short story about three young artistsinParis who knew that their work was good, but couldn't sell any. So, theydrew straws and the loser was scheduled to "die". He began furiouslypainting to build up a stock, while his compatriots roamed thecountryside selling, for large sums, works of their "dying master". Amock funeral was held and the three lived happily ever after, selling a"discovered" masterpiece whenever necessary.What I find confusing about recent postings is that the word"collectible" was used often; but over the past years, I can't rememberhaving seen it on the list at all. None of the makers I know areattempting to sell "collectibles"; all seem intent on providing good(most are better than good) fishing rods.Best regards,Reed from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Sep 27 10:44:35 1998 Subject: Mike Biondo Mike would you please contact me off list as I need to talk to you aboutsomethings.Bret from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sun Sep 27 11:01:17 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Sun,27Sep 1998 12:09:46 -0400 Subject: List Harm? After the recent discussion on commercialism on the list was quickly halted, a few of us were excited about creation the off-lists or commercial based lists. from my perspective, this was done to prevent the irritation of the list and possibly (however I don't remember hear for sure), to stop any violations of the listserve policy as it is set up on a institutional server. My question for everyone, and in particular Mike...if 90% of the messages coming over the list are direct personal attacks, at what point does the members and administrator say enough is enough? Those of us who felt in some way responsible for the commercial tones of a few messages removed them from the list at the request of, what is safe to say, a minority. Currently, there seems to be a growing majority unhappy with the contents of the list. Mike?Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sun Sep 27 11:12:45 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Sun,27Sep 1998 12:21:14 -0400 Subject: Re: The Ins & Outs I would also challenge the 200 number but not based on the magazine. I do think it is safe to say, most builders are subscribers. However, over whelmingly I think most subscribers are fisherman. The magazine has much more to do with fishing bamboo than making them. In addition, it is my understanding businesses also are considered in the subscription numbers. I enjoyed your piece. What was your criteria for the above statement? Itseems to me that there has to be many more than 200 if The BambooFlyrodhas 12,000 subscribers. How many people are there on the list? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO P.S. My motivation: Pleasure and Self Satisfaction. Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sun Sep 27 11:14:21 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Sun,27Sep 1998 12:22:32 -0400 Subject: Re: List harm That previous message was written last night after the list messages were significantly more dramatic. Glad to see things have calmed a bit. Take care,Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from mrbamboo@quik.com Sun Sep 27 11:15:18 1998 Subject: Re: Reel plans -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Reel plans Just an update on those reel plans from MI '51: I've still got a few setsofextra copies incase anybody wants them- no charge- Turns out they didn'tneed extra postage. Just send me your snail address and be patient :-) havingserver problems as usual. Davy Paul Whitely13102 Dean StreetTustin, CA 92780(714) 832-4959 from ragnarig@integrityol.com Sun Sep 27 11:19:59 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A7FA2FBD011A; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 09:29:46 PDT Subject: Re: Reel plans That's right Art, this is for an aluminum reel,slightly like an old solidHardy. Not too much like the wooden ones I've seen but it might give you aplace to start. I'll get it off to you in a couple days. Davy-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Reel plans Okay, Davy, you hooked me. May I have a set? I've been looking through myworkshop since the first posting for a copy that had that wooden one in it(which I'm SURE I had at one time---or at least a photocopy of same) butI'mdamned if I can find the infernal thing!If I recall, this is the metal one?The address is:Art Port37 Ardsley StStaten Island, 10306, NY Thanks,Art At 08:10 PM 9/26/98 -0700, you wrote: Just an update on those reel plans from MI '51: I've still got a few setsofextra copies incase anybody wants them- no charge- Turns out theydidn'tneed extra postage. Just send me your snail address and be patient :-) havingserver problems as usual. Davy from ragnarig@integrityol.com Sun Sep 27 11:32:04 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id AAD14CD0286; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 09:41:53 PDT Subject: Re: Reel plans Robert You got it Davy-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Reel plans Hi DavyI've kept an Ieye out for your posting on the plans and just picked up on this. I'dappreciate a set.Robert Cochrane331 Abadan Place NECalgary AlbertaT2A 6P3Canada Thanksbest regardsRobert At 08:28 AM 9/27/98 -0400, you wrote:Okay, Davy, you hooked me. May I have a set? I've been looking throughmyworkshop since the first posting for a copy that had that wooden one init(which I'm SURE I had at one time---or at least a photocopy of same) butI'mdamned if I can find the infernal thing!If I recall, this is the metalone?The address is:Art Port37 Ardsley StStaten Island, 10306, NY Thanks,Art At 08:10 PM 9/26/98 -0700, you wrote: Just an update on those reel plans from MI '51: I've still got a few setsofextra copies incase anybody wants them- no charge- Turns out theydidn'tneed extra postage. Just send me your snail address and be patient :-) havingserver problems as usual. Davy rcochran@cadvision.com from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sun Sep 27 12:46:46 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: no more planing Art, The sad part is that he refers to it as his retirement fund...think of allthe goodwill he is building...retirement is apt to be in a third worldcountry! Best regards,George Bourke -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: no more planing George,Don't worry, I'm in no danger of losing the faith (Wasn't it Adam ClaytonPowell Jr who said "Keep the baby, Faith"?). I watched a similarinterchangeoccur shortly after I first joined the list and didn't throw up the whiteflag then; I ain't gonna do it now that I'm a seasoned veteran! It's justkind of funny the way the place can go from a happy sandbox to a gangwarinone letter. Sometimes I think there ought to be an internal hold-functionone-mail in the CPU for 24 hrs. I know I could have profited from it on morethan one occasion! I think sometimes we express our opinions too quicklyeven to make our own best case. I just hate to see guys that agree on somuch get into it so badly over certain parts of the game. Several times Ihave asked (with some trepidation) if I could learn more about someone'stechnique and so far I've been lucky--I still have no teeth marks on myheadand my ears are not yet cauliflowered. (For God's sake I hope THIS doesn'toffend anyone!)Any way, this still seems to be the place to be if you love cane and itspossibilities.See you on the Web,Art At 11:16 PM 9/25/98 -0700, you wrote:Art, Don't totally lose faith... Good luck fishing,George from ragnarig@integrityol.com Sun Sep 27 12:48:11 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id ACA9AD201D8; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 10:58:01 PDT Subject: Re: Reel plans They'e on the way, Paul. Sorry you got left out last time. Davy -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Reel plans -----Original Message-----From: David Date: Sunday, September 27, 1998 3:19 AMSubject: Re: Reel plans Just an update on those reel plans from MI '51: I've still got a few setsofextra copies incase anybody wants them- no charge- Turns out theydidn'tneed extra postage. Just send me your snail address and be patient :-) havingserver problems as usual. Davy Paul Whitely13102 Dean StreetTustin, CA 92780(714) 832-4959 from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sun Sep 27 12:56:21 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: no more planing Terry, I'd be surprised if ANYONE on the group had a problem with WHAT yousaid...only with how you said it (a bit like a dog with a bone prancing itin front of a group of other dogs). If you had said that work was uncertainso you'd been spending time so that you could derive more income fromrodmaking should that become necessary but couldn't share the details duetoother professional builders being on the group, I think most would haverespected that (though you probably should have given some thought as towhether there was anything you thought you COULD share because, unlessyouare an idiot, you KNEW there would be questions). The other mistake wasincalling others names...in light of what you think of the listmembers, I havea question for you: Why ARE you on the list? I can only think of 3reasons: 1) To learn (but you say you are way beyond all of us so that can'tbe it); 2) To teach (I don't remember any posts of that nature, so probablynot it either); or 3) To sell your product (but your salemanship is sorelylacking plus the group has been admonished for that). Bewildered in CA,George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: no more planing Rich,I can only take the list in small doses which I think works well for all ofus.I have just got back on the list and decided to let the builders know whatI havebeen up to. I was very excited and just wanted to tell the group. Icertainly didnot expect all the fuss when I refused to give details. I am a veryindependentbuilder and have always got the most pleasure out of finding my ownsolutions toproblems. I enjoy this more than the actual building of rods.It would not have crossed my mind to ask a builder the details of hisbevellerunless it was a commercial unit and it would only be to ask him if he wassatisfied with it.It was a big mistake, I just thought it would have been more interestingthan homegrown cane. I know there are several very experienced builders out thereusingbevellers and it would have an interesting topic for discussion before thechildren started screaming.Terry Rich Jezioro wrote: Terry,I am of your generation and age and I don't understand.Why did you post this information to the list after many months ofsilence?Surely you expected people to ask questions about your process.>> Ifnot, what was your purpose in informing us of your new rod makingprocess?Rich Jezioro At 08:28 PM 9/25/98 -0400, you wrote:Russ,all did was, was to refuse a very generous offer to share free what hascostme agood few thousand dollars to develop. What happens, I get attacked fornotsharing.I have always been a socialist and do not mind 50% of my pay checkbeingtakenaway if it means that there is a social safety net in Canada and nochildrenhaveto live in beat up trailer 2 plots down.My social concience, I'm afraid, does not include a bunch of rodmakingslackers.I am 51 years old and have spent more than I care to think about onrodmaking,money that should have gone into a retirement fund. I have had an addedincentivein the fact that there have been many changes that do not look good atheplace Iwork. I have been working so that when or if there is a layoff I canfallbackonthe rods. What would happen if you started building like me? I wouldbebacktosquare oneYou guy of the me, me, me generation will not understand this. Waituntilyouaremy age and perhaps you'll understand.Terry Ackland Anachemrpo@aol.com wrote: Terry Ackland made the first bamboo rod I ever held or cast. I foundit atthenow-defunct Orvis shop in Plattsburgh NY six or seven years ago. I was genuinely thrilled to have the chance to cast a bamboo fly rod.I hadbeen raised on spin fishing and plastic rods. The bamboo rod that Iheldthatday was the key to a new world of fishing for me. Now the illusion is cracked. The bitterness and smart-a** pomposity, the likes of which I had yetto seeonany mailing list (at least by a regular member), really disappoints. So go ahead, flame me with one of your scathing responses Mr. A.. Youcan'thurt me any more than the disappointment already has. Russ Lavigne *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@ /||/______/_||_________________________________________||/\/ \ > > > / \ > from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sun Sep 27 12:59:53 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: John Zimny subthread of (Re: no more planing) John, I'd be interested in hearing about your experiences when you get a chance. Best regards,George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: no more planing I'd be more than happy to share my experiences with a Bellinger mill ifanyone wouldlike to know about it. However, I've not been able to get a finishedquality strip outof it. What it does do, is give the maker a perfect triangular shape sothat finishplaning is a breeze. But unless you are going to make more than two orthree rods ofthe same length, it is not a great time saver. It is easier on the hands.John Terence Ackland wrote: Rich,I can only take the list in small doses which I think works well for allof us.I have just got back on the list and decided to let the builders knowwhat I havebeen up to. I was very excited and just wanted to tell the group. Icertainly didnot expect all the fuss when I refused to give details. I am a veryindependentbuilder and have always got the most pleasure out of finding my ownsolutions toproblems. I enjoy this more than the actual building of rods.It would not have crossed my mind to ask a builder the details of hisbevellerunless it was a commercial unit and it would only be to ask him if hewassatisfied with it.It was a big mistake, I just thought it would have been more interestingthan homegrown cane. I know there are several very experienced builders outthereusingbevellers and it would have an interesting topic for discussion beforethechildren started screaming.Terry Rich Jezioro wrote: Terry,I am of your generation and age and I don't understand.Why did you post this information to the list after many months ofsilence?Surely you expected people to ask questions about your process.If not, what was your purpose in informing us of your new rod makingprocess?Rich Jezioro At 08:28 PM 9/25/98 -0400, you wrote:Russ,all did was, was to refuse a very generous offer to share free whathas costme agood few thousand dollars to develop. What happens, I get attackedfornotsharing.I have always been a socialist and do not mind 50% of my pay checkbeingtakenaway if it means that there is a social safety net in Canada and nochildrenhaveto live in beat up trailer 2 plots down.My social concience, I'm afraid, does not include a bunch of rodmakingslackers.I am 51 years old and have spent more than I care to think about onrodmaking,money that should have gone into a retirement fund. I have had anaddedincentivein the fact that there have been many changes that do not look good atheplace Iwork. I have been working so that when or if there is a layoff I canfallbackonthe rods. What would happen if you started building like me? I wouldbe backtosquare oneYou guy of the me, me, me generation will not understand this. Waituntilyouaremy age and perhaps you'll understand.Terry Ackland Anachemrpo@aol.com wrote: Terry Ackland made the first bamboo rod I ever held or cast. I foundit atthenow-defunct Orvis shop in Plattsburgh NY six or seven years ago. I was genuinely thrilled to have the chance to cast a bamboo flyrod. I hadbeen raised on spin fishing and plastic rods. The bamboo rod that Iheldthatday was the key to a new world of fishing for me. Now the illusion is cracked. The bitterness and smart-a** pomposity, the likes of which I hadyetto seeonany mailing list (at least by a regular member), really disappoints. So go ahead, flame me with one of your scathing responses Mr. A..You can'thurt me any more than the disappointment already has. Russ Lavigne *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@ /||/______/_||_________________________________________||/\/ \ > >/ \ > from mwoodruf@globalnet.co.uk Sun Sep 27 13:34:27 1998 helo=mwoodruf) Subject: Re: Bamboo in Europe Simon, I use a company called Clapro limited at 2a sussex road new malden surry.0181 949 4963 regards Mick -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Bamboo in Europe Anyone know a source of Bamboo in the UK ?. Simon Edwards There is a resource for buying quality cane in Europe. The company iscalled Centre Cane and they are in England. The gentleman's name isLeonardMoss and I will list his contact information below. He will have cane tosell around the end of October, this year. Contact Mr. Moss for moredetails, thank you. Leonard MossCentre Cane CompanyUnit 16 ShakeltonsRectory EstateOngar, EssexCM5 9AT Tel: 01277 363 285Cel: 0850 876 354Fax: 01277 364 985 Regards, Andy RoyerThe Bamboo Brokerbamboo@w-link.net(206) 935-4414 ph(206) 935-5515 fax from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sun Sep 27 16:46:46 1998 Subject: Rod tapers List: Some time ago there was interest in spin rod and casting rod tapers("casting rod" meaning with use of revolving spool, multiplying reels). Iposted some spin rod tapers, and here are those for casting rods. Likeflyrods, casting rods also have individual actions. Some fast withminimumheight of trajector (tight loop analogy), some slow which are lobbers(wideloop). And like flyrods, they can benefit from small tip tops, though it isdifficult to find older rods with less than # 6. Most numbers are on 5-in.centers. Where not, please interpolate or plot on graph paper/screen. Asinflycasting, using these bamboo rods with proper reels and lines, there ispleasure is in the casting. These tapers are as found. 2-pc rods can bemadeas 1-pc and visa-versa. And of course, they can be manipulated for slightdifferences in action. 1) Heddon # 850 : 6"-0", 1-pc for 3/8 to 1/2 oz lures. Medium speed rod. Ithink this was also called "The Bill Stanley Favorite", but not sure.Considered a "tournament" rod. A good long distance rod for fishing. 0-110; 5-120; 10- 130; 15-144; 20-162; 25-182; 30-198; 35-208; 40-228; 50-240; 55-274; 55 Swell begins; 60-430; 62-468; 67/72-468. 2) Heddon # 851-L : 5'-6", 1-pc for 3/8 to 5/8 oz lures. This a fairly fastrod. Great all-round casting rod. This is over varnish and suggest - .006"correction.0-110; 5-124; 10-142; 15 162; 20-178; 25-196; 30- 214; 35-232; 40-248;45-264; 50-286; 52-296; 52 - swell begins to 390. 3) Hollis Casting Rod : 6'-2" , 2-pc listed as 1/4-oz. to 3/8-oz. lure rodbut seems to handle 1/2-oz. lures ok. This is about the best of the longrange rods in my view. Has good feel and accuracy.Tip: 0-094; 5-106; 10-126; 15-142; 20-158; 25-174; 30-184; 35-212;37-234Butt: 37-237; 40-240; 45-252; 50-262; 55-276 begin swell @ 55; 60-386end swell. 4) Semi hollow casting rod : 6'-2", 2-pc for 3/8-oz. to 5/8-oz. lures. Thisrod designed using the Garrison formulas, plugging in the extra wt. for the5carbide guides (4ea # 8 and 1 #10) and substituting a length of fly line toequal 5/8-oz as wt of target lure. Decision was later made to hollowbuild,perhaps resulting in a lower lure wt. range. Not sure how much stronger itwould be built solid. Due to small tip top size, it seems to be moreaccuratthan orther rods listed above. However, does not have quite the distance,being more comfortable up to 75'. Works very well with older, light,narrow-spooled reels and 6# soft braided nylon line. Tip: 0-088; 5-090; 10-120; 15-138; 20-158; 25-174; 30-190; 36.5- 216Butt: # 14 ferrule; 36.5-216; 40-222; 45-238; 50-254; 55-274; 60- 290;60- begin swell to 450. Guide spacing from tip top: 6 ; 12-1/4 ; 20-1/2 ;29-7/8 ; 42-1/4. All of these casting rods can be built with butt ferrules for off- setcastinghandles. My suggestion is to haunt the flea mkts and or attend NFLCCmeetsand obtain a mechanically good conditioned Heddon off-set handle with acollet-type closure on front. You should avoid the other type Heddon thathasa screw thru the front of the offset that pulls the rod shaft into thehandle;it requires a morse taper ferrule for the shaft. If the ferrule is avaiablethat handle would be just fine. FeatherLight casting handles are also verygood, especially the non-adjustable ones (not so large). The other optionisto extend the taper numbers given above and make the rod for a straighthandlewith the rod shaft extending through the reel seat and handgrip similar toflyrods. If you do go with a straight handle, I strongly recommed youdeviseor purchase some sort of casting trigger. Triggers enhance the castingfeeland ability to a great degree and I find straight handle rods without acasting trigger difficult. One additional spinning rod taper. 5) Light Spin rod : 6'-3" for 3/16-oz. to 5/16-oz. lures. This is really agreat taper for a spin rod, the same as it is for a fly rod. Check anynumberof sources, such as Wayne's book and the archives for the # 4 version ofthe6'-3" rod. 6) Modified the above 6'-3" for 1/4-oz and in casting rod configuration.Thought I had it but it is still a bit too weak in the butt section, and willtry again soon. Will post it when I get it right. Hope this helps someone,Richard Tyree from CampblRods@aol.com Sun Sep 27 17:03:17 1998 Subject: Re: composites I cast many of Cecil's cane/graphite rods at his home when he was stillwithus. They still felt very much like a regular bamboo rod, only that they allhad the very powerful tendancies of graphite. I still have a small crosssection of one of his rods in my shop. It's a pretty incredible thing. Thenagain, he was a pretty incredible craftsman!Steve CampbellCampbell Rod Co.Brewer,MaineCampblRods@aol.com from ragnarig@integrityol.com Sun Sep 27 18:41:54 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id AF5D354025C; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 16:50:53 PDT Subject: Re: Rod tapers Dear Richard Thanks again! These Heddons remind me of the rod I had as a boy (beforetheworld was divided according to the style of hat you wore) when we hadsuchthings as "all-around" fishermen. In fact, I'm going to take your adviceand start looking for an offset handle. Davy-----Original Message----- Subject: Rod tapers List: Some time ago there was interest in spin rod and casting rod tapers("casting rod" meaning with use of revolving spool, multiplying reels). Iposted some spin rod tapers, and here are those for casting rods. Likeflyrods, casting rods also have individual actions. Some fast withminimumheight of trajector (tight loop analogy), some slow which are lobbers(wideloop). And like flyrods, they can benefit from small tip tops, though itisdifficult to find older rods with less than # 6. Most numbers are on5-in.centers. Where not, please interpolate or plot on graph paper/screen. Asinflycasting, using these bamboo rods with proper reels and lines, there ispleasure is in the casting. These tapers are as found. 2-pc rods can bemadeas 1-pc and visa-versa. And of course, they can be manipulated for slightdifferences in action. 1) Heddon # 850 : 6"-0", 1-pc for 3/8 to 1/2 oz lures. Medium speed rod.Ithink this was also called "The Bill Stanley Favorite", but not sure.Considered a "tournament" rod. A good long distance rod for fishing.0- 110; 5-120; 10-130; 15-144; 20-162; 25-182; 30-198; 35-208;40-228; 50- 240; 55-274; 55 Swell begins; 60-430; 62-468; 67/72-468. 2) Heddon # 851-L : 5'-6", 1-pc for 3/8 to 5/8 oz lures. This a fairlyfastrod. Great all-round casting rod. This is over varnish and suggest - .006"correction.0-110; 5-124; 10-142; 15 162; 20-178; 25-196; 30- 214; 35-232;40-248;45-264; 50-286; 52-296; 52 - swell begins to 390. 3) Hollis Casting Rod : 6'-2" , 2-pc listed as 1/4-oz. to 3/8-oz. lure rodbut seems to handle 1/2-oz. lures ok. This is about the best of the longrange rods in my view. Has good feel and accuracy.Tip: 0-094; 5-106; 10-126; 15-142; 20-158; 25-174; 30-184; 35-212;37-234Butt: 37-237; 40-240; 45-252; 50-262; 55-276 begin swell @ 55;60-386end swell. 4) Semi hollow casting rod : 6'-2", 2-pc for 3/8-oz. to 5/8-oz. lures.Thisrod designed using the Garrison formulas, plugging in the extra wt. forthe5carbide guides (4ea # 8 and 1 #10) and substituting a length of fly linetoequal 5/8-oz as wt of target lure. Decision was later made to hollowbuild,perhaps resulting in a lower lure wt. range. Not sure how much strongeritwould be built solid. Due to small tip top size, it seems to be moreaccuratthan orther rods listed above. However, does not have quite the distance,being more comfortable up to 75'. Works very well with older, light,narrow-spooled reels and 6# soft braided nylon line. Tip: 0-088; 5-090; 10-120; 15-138; 20-158; 25-174; 30-190; 36.5- 216Butt: # 14 ferrule; 36.5-216; 40-222; 45-238; 50-254; 55-274; 60- 290;60- begin swell to 450. Guide spacing from tip top: 6 ; 12-1/4 ; 20-1/2;29-7/8 ; 42-1/4. All of these casting rods can be built with butt ferrules for off- setcastinghandles. My suggestion is to haunt the flea mkts and or attend NFLCCmeetsand obtain a mechanically good conditioned Heddon off-set handle with acollet-type closure on front. You should avoid the other type Heddon thathasa screw thru the front of the offset that pulls the rod shaft into thehandle;it requires a morse taper ferrule for the shaft. If the ferrule isavaiablethat handle would be just fine. FeatherLight casting handles are alsoverygood, especially the non-adjustable ones (not so large). The other optionisto extend the taper numbers given above and make the rod for a straighthandlewith the rod shaft extending through the reel seat and handgrip similar toflyrods. If you do go with a straight handle, I strongly recommed youdeviseor purchase some sort of casting trigger. Triggers enhance the castingfeeland ability to a great degree and I find straight handle rods without acasting trigger difficult. One additional spinning rod taper. 5) Light Spin rod : 6'-3" for 3/16-oz. to 5/16-oz. lures. This is reallyagreat taper for a spin rod, the same as it is for a fly rod. Check anynumberof sources, such as Wayne's book and the archives for the # 4 version ofthe6'- 3" rod. 6) Modified the above 6'-3" for 1/4-oz and in casting rod configuration.Thought I had it but it is still a bit too weak in the butt section, andwilltry again soon. Will post it when I get it right. Hope this helps someone,Richard Tyree from ragnarig@integrityol.com Sun Sep 27 18:52:28 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A1D892D0298; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 17:01:28 PDT Subject: Re: Collector rods I'll tell you what "collector's item" means to me: that the thing has nopractical or utilitarian value, or that it is best left in its case where itwill come to no harm and just accrue interest for its owner. Well, goodjobI'm not making any :-) Davy-----Original Message----- Subject: Collector rods Hi gang,what makes an object or or product collectable? Why do people spendmoney on Beaney Babies and mass produced sports cards? Franklin Minthave a whole range of collectable goodies with certificates ofauthenticity include in the price.A few years ago a friend in a local fly shop called me up and arranged all sorts of money and always paid cash.I met the man and he wanted me to build him a rod just for him. Hetalked of gold, silver and Ivory and a special certificate made out tohim. I half listened and drank the beer he was buying. I ended uptelling the guy that I would think about it.A couple of weeks later I visited the fly shop to meet the guy again andto see some gear he had purchased. I was shown knives that cost him afortune." Look at the detail in that hand engraving," he said. To me itwas just photo etching. He then showed me a collector rod he hadpurchased from a builder for a tidy sum of bucks. It was not a rod forfishing that is for sure. It was about 6ft long in three pieces and went from the size of your thumb to 1/32. he then showed me some old usedclunkers he had purchased in Kennebunkport.I left and called my friend back later and explained that I was notinterested in building the guy a rod, I said that how could I predictthat the rod I made would be collectable. My friend said and do notworry and take his cash for the guy is under the table himself. I couldnot, the guy had already purchased enough junk without me adding to it. If an article is advertised as being 'collectable' is it reallycollectable or is it is just hype to catch customers?Terry from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sun Sep 27 19:14:25 1998 (modemcable241.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: The Ins & Outs I'm curious about the 200 number also, what with 9000 copies of Wayne'sbooksold so far. Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: The Ins & Outs Makers - there are probably some 200 folks here in the US than can makeabamboo fly rod - some like Al Medved make an excellent product butchosenots. Wayne, I enjoyed your piece. What was your criteria for the above statement?It seems to me that there has to be many more than 200 if The BambooFlyrod has 12,000 subscribers. How many people are there on the list? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO P.S. My motivation: Pleasure and Self Satisfaction. from MartynE@aol.com Sun Sep 27 19:29:23 1998 Subject: Re: wanker(wanking) In a message dated 9/27/98 9:47:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time,hexagon@odyssee.net writes: Ok, lets see,sit in a chair and imagin you have, say, a small furry mammal on yourlap and you also have an imaginary dagger. Now proceed to startstabbingthe rabbit furiously.Do not try this in front of daughters. Teenage sons and wives willprobably find it amusing.Terry ( bringing culture to the list) Terry,That is a very good description for those that don't have some rootsin England. I've read the thread on your efforts to produce a machine forplaning, good for you. Some times comments can be taken seriously wentmeantto stir the pot. The pot did get stirred. It takes all kinds to make thisworld. I personally like hand made items rather than machine made, ifpossible. I've made several graphite rods from Loomis blanks (I can hearthecat calls even now!) mainly because of the type of fishing I do and also thecost. I'm going to make a bamboo rod in the near future after gathering theright tools. Yes, I will hand plane it. I'm not trying to impress anyone withthe type of rod or any other piece of flyfishing equipment I use. If I like itI'll use it. Martyn from michael@wugate.wustl.edu Sun Sep 27 20:46:21 1998 Subject: Re: Mike Biondo Mike would you please contact me off list as I need to talk to you aboutsomethings. What's up Bret? Mike- from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Sep 27 21:15:42 1998 Subject: Re: The Ins & Outs I have five hundred seventy customers in my computer that buy components from me, that build split cane rods. Although some of these people are from other countries, I think there are more than two hundred in the US. Dave LeClairThe Fly and Rod room from dickay@alltel.net Sun Sep 27 21:31:34 1998 VAA09418 Subject: Re: Reel plans Davy, I'll take a set, Please. Dick Fuhrman6212 BostonFort Smith, AR 72903 I'll be happy to refund you the cost of copying and mailing Dick ----------From: David Subject: Re: Reel plansDate: Saturday, September 26, 1998 10:10 PM Just an update on those reel plans from MI '51: I've still got a few setsofextra copies incase anybody wants them- no charge- Turns out theydidn'tneed extra postage. Just send me your snail address and be patient :-) havingserver problems as usual. Davy from ragnarig@integrityol.com Sun Sep 27 21:48:16 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id AB113637011A; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 19:57:21 PDT Subject: Re: Reel plans Dick Gotcha covered. Just keep me in mind if you run across a good taper ( or ahunkin' big silk line :-) Davy-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Reel plans Davy, I'll take a set, Please. Dick Fuhrman6212 BostonFort Smith, AR 72903 I'll be happy to refund you the cost of copying and mailing Dick ----------From: David Subject: Re: Reel plansDate: Saturday, September 26, 1998 10:10 PM Just an update on those reel plans from MI '51: I've still got a few setsofextra copies incase anybody wants them- no charge- Turns out theydidn'tneed extra postage. Just send me your snail address and be patient :-) havingserver problems as usual. Davy from ragnarig@integrityol.com Sun Sep 27 22:00:52 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id AE0360501E2; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 20:09:55 PDT Subject: Re: Rod tapers Richard Just got a chance to look at the bottom of the page and I don't see thoselittle thre-digit numbers anywhere. Is there a chance this is Wayne's6342?If so, didn't somebody say they'd built one with a swelled butt? Soundslike that might be a good road. Davy One additional spinning rod taper. 5) Light Spin rod : 6'-3" for 3/16-oz. to 5/16-oz. lures. This is reallyagreat taper for a spin rod, the same as it is for a fly rod. Check anynumberof sources, such as Wayne's book and the archives for the # 4 version ofthe6'- 3" rod. 6) Modified the above 6'-3" for 1/4-oz and in casting rod configuration.Thought I had it but it is still a bit too weak in the butt section, andwilltry again soon. Will post it when I get it right. Hope this helps someone,Richard Tyree from tbeckfam@pacbell.net Sun Sep 27 22:53:55 1998 mail-gw.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id UAA29882 for Subject: Re: no more planing Tony Young wrote: On Sat, 26 Sep 1998, Art Port wrote: George,Don't worry, I'm in no danger of losing the faith (Wasn't it AdamClaytonPowell Jr who said "Keep the baby, Faith"?). I watched a similarinterchangeoccur shortly after I first joined the list and didn't throw up the whiteflag then; I ain't gonna do it now that I'm a seasoned veteran! It's justkind of funny the way the place can go from a happy sandbox to agangwar inone letter. Sometimes I think there ought to be an internal hold-function one-mail in the CPU for 24 hrs. I know I could have profited from it onmorethan one occasion! I think sometimes we express our opinions tooquicklyeven to make our own best case. I just hate to see guys that agree on somuch get into it so badly over certain parts of the game. Several timesIhave asked (with some trepidation) if I could learn more aboutsomeone'stechnique and so far I've been lucky--I still have no teeth marks on myheadand my ears are not yet cauliflowered. (For God's sake I hope THISdoesn'toffend anyone!) Oi, whataya got against us cauliflowers?!?!Just kidding. Tony Tony,How does a fly-half get cauliflower ears? from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sun Sep 27 23:52:03 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: composites What were they? Graphite core in hollowed bamboo? George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: composites I cast many of Cecil's cane/graphite rods at his home when he was stillwithus. They still felt very much like a regular bamboo rod, only that theyallhad the very powerful tendancies of graphite. I still have a small crosssection of one of his rods in my shop. It's a pretty incredible thing.Thenagain, he was a pretty incredible craftsman!Steve CampbellCampbell Rod Co.Brewer,MaineCampblRods@aol.com from tbeckfam@pacbell.net Mon Sep 28 00:16:22 1998 mail-gw.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id WAA21949 for Subject: Re: Reel plans Art Port wrote: Okay, Davy, you hooked me. May I have a set? I've been looking through myworkshop since the first posting for a copy that had that wooden one init(which I'm SURE I had at one time---or at least a photocopy of same) butI'mdamned if I can find the infernal thing!If I recall, this is the metal one?The address is:Art Port37 Ardsley StStaten Island, 10306, NY Thanks,Art At 08:10 PM 9/26/98 -0700, you wrote: Just an update on those reel plans from MI '51: I've still got a few setsofextra copies incase anybody wants them- no charge- Turns out theydidn'tneed extra postage. Just send me your snail address and be patient :-) havingserver problems as usual. Davy I would also like to see the plans if any are left.Thanks,Traver Becker from tbeckfam@pacbell.net Mon Sep 28 00:18:44 1998 mail-gw.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id WAA22592 for Subject: Re: Reel plans Art Port wrote: Okay, Davy, you hooked me. May I have a set? I've been looking through myworkshop since the first posting for a copy that had that wooden one init(which I'm SURE I had at one time---or at least a photocopy of same) butI'mdamned if I can find the infernal thing!If I recall, this is the metal one?The address is:Art Port37 Ardsley StStaten Island, 10306, NY Thanks,Art At 08:10 PM 9/26/98 -0700, you wrote: Just an update on those reel plans from MI '51: I've still got a few setsofextra copies incase anybody wants them- no charge- Turns out theydidn'tneed extra postage. Just send me your snail address and be patient :-) havingserver problems as usual. Davy Traver Becker803 E. Fairway Dr.Orange, Ca. 92866 from ragnarig@integrityol.com Mon Sep 28 04:37:12 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id AAF45E00286; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 02:46:28 PDT Subject: Re: Reel plans Traver Becker803 E. Fairway Dr.Orange, Ca. 92866 Traver Yes, I think that'll help. They're on the way. Davy from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Sep 28 04:43:35 1998 Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:43:24 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: no more planing On Sun, 27 Sep 1998, Traver Becker wrote:much get into it so badly over certain parts of the game. Severaltimes Ihave asked (with some trepidation) if I could learn more aboutsomeone'stechnique and so far I've been lucky--I still have no teeth marks onmy headand my ears are not yet cauliflowered. (For God's sake I hope THISdoesn'toffend anyone!) Oi, whataya got against us cauliflowers?!?!Just kidding. Tony Tony,How does a fly-half get cauliflower ears? On field disagreements mainly. ;-) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from Fallcreek9@aol.com Mon Sep 28 04:46:00 1998 Subject: Re: Rod tapers In a message dated 9/27/98 6:43:03 PM Central Daylight Time,ragnarig@integrityol.com writes: Davy: Bet you do not regret it. If you wish any info on kind and source ofreasonable reels and lines for such a rod, contact me. Regards,RichardHeresys, Inc. from Fallcreek9@aol.com Mon Sep 28 05:03:32 1998 Subject: Re: Rod tapers In a message dated 9/27/98 10:03:48 PM Central Daylight Time,ragnarig@integrityol.com writes: Davy: Yes, that will do just fine, although I used a slightly differentversion of it. It is also in the Jack Howell book. One cannot say enoughgood things about the taper in the use for which it was designed and italsomakes into a very good spin rod. Richard from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Mon Sep 28 06:49:17 1998 HAA00783 Subject: RE: Polishing Varnish Hope, Piscataway New Jersey. Sometimes I wish I was on a boat!Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, September 24, 1998 9:43 PM Subject: Re: Polishing Varnish Al Since many of the old rods were finished with spirit varnish(shellac) youmight try french-polishing them. Rub the finish real goodwith ethanol andcharge a pad... on second thought, you might try the FineWoodworkingarchives or American Lutherie index for comprehensivearticles on thesubject. Or contact me off-list for detailed descriptions.It takes somepractice but, once you get the process down, it's a greatway to get areally slick finish that's in every way compatible with, andchemicallyindistinguishable from, the original finish. It's also justas prone towater and alcohol damage but hey... You have a very interesting address- are you overseas? On aboat, perhaps? Best of luck,Davy-----Original Message-----From: Hanzich, Al (MLPT) Date: Thursday, September 24, 1998 7:29 AMSubject: RE: Polishing Varnish Thanks Dave. I have a copy but can not find a supplierhere in Pa., or NJwho sells the two items. I currently use pumice orrottestone(?) withmineral oil. Comes out OK but not really great. Could bedoing somethingwrong.Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, September 24, 1998 10:03 AM Subject: Re: Polishing Varnish At 08:21 AM 9/24/98 -0400, you wrote:I purchase many old rods that have beat up varnish. Canany one give meadvise or suggestions on how to polish the varnish? Considering all the e:mails going around on advertising,brand names of thematerials would be of help.Al Hanzich732-878-6567 UI would suggest that you get a copy of Michael Sinclair's"BAMBOO RODRESTORATION HANDBOOK". This contain info on the polishingofvarnish andrefinishing old bamboo rods. Dave from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon Sep 28 07:18:37 1998 Subject: Re: Bitchiness Hear! Hear! Well spoken. And this from a 120 lb. henpecked weakling who is61 years old, worked in the coal mines when he was 13, was too poor toeatanything but bread and crackers for many meals, and took many a crap inanouthouse using a Sears & Roebuck catalog for paper. I have now built 8rods, giving seven of them away to friends. Nevertheless, Terry DOES get the juices flowing, doesn't he? And he's fartoo young to be a curmudgeon--hasn't paid his dues yet! At 12:19 PM 9/26/98 -0500, you wrote:Terry,Congratulations on your achievement with your beveler. I hope itbringsyou much pleasure and profit, if that is your motive.Will you allow those whose motives are different from yours thefreedomto enjoy thier own pursuits as well, without being called slackers, etc?No, those of us who are different from you are not scared of you. Wejust don't like your demeanor, your criticisms, your arrogance. In short,I'm not scared of you, I just don't like you. 20-25 years ago I was a pretty good boxer. No mama's boy here. Well,whatI'm saying is, please back off. For some of us this is fun, most of thetime. Sincerely, Reverend Dr. Harry Boyd, Jr.fbcwin@fsbnet.com Terence Ackland wrote: Tony, I do not have to say some of you guys are wankers, you just keep provingit yourselves with perhaps a slight provocation.I have never once remarked that my fishing poles are the best. I am notpretentious enough to call them collector rods or museum quality items.In actual fact the only rods the FF museum is interested in is the rodsof the famous, no matter how shabby.I an not desperate to be famous like you guys. I do not attend shows orproduce glossy literature with flowery prose on what is essentially ablood sport.All I want to do is get a reasonable remuneration from rodmaking bymaking first class production rods. I enjoy rodmaking and would like todo it full time and hand planing is not an option.If I can get enough courage to quit my day job I know there is a marketout there and I am equipped, and if it did pan out I would have abusiness that would have some value that can be sold.The top end guys are struggling to sell their rods and what wouldhappenif I helped them out? They would all forget their so called exquisitelyjewelled masterpieces and giving me a shafting.Terry You guys are shit scared of me for some reason, I do not know why. Youall keep ramming down my throat that what you are doing is more pure,artistic and collectable.You are not trying to convince me, you are trying to convinceyourselves.Terry Jerry Snidere-mail: Sniderja@email.uc.eduhttp://www.biology.uc.edu/snider/jerry.htm from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Mon Sep 28 08:01:02 1998 Subject: Re: Bitchiness List, Recently at work, I found a sign posted on the wall in the QualityAssurance Dept. I thought it was apt then and fits the current threadson the list at the present. Arguing with an Inspector is like wrestling with a Pig inthe Mud. Pretty soon you realize, that the Pig enjoys it. Dick Fuhrman from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Mon Sep 28 08:05:02 1998 Subject: Bitchiness Thank you, Bret. I just came back from a weekend to find 138 emailitems waiting for me, most of which it seemed involved a debate overTerry Ackland's character. Well, I don't care about Terry's character,such as it is. I do care about rodmaking. If Terry ever has anythingto say that will be helpful to me in that pursuit, I hope he says it.That has not happened yet, but it may. If so, I do not much care inwhat language he couches it. Bret once treated me somewhat harshly inthe matter of whether or not I should invest in a Stanley 9 1/2, but hegave me good, useful advice and I have been grateful for it. One thingI do not have time for is reading all these personal remarks. If Iwanted to do that, I'd spend my time watching reruns of "TheJeffersons." from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Mon Sep 28 08:08:35 1998 (modemcable241.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: Dial caliper base BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_r1B96hvINp6ok4sk4HaITw)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_r1B96hvINp6ok4sk4HaITw) BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_d91DgBqmtvGUxbmsXpbdqQ)" --Boundary_(ID_d91DgBqmtvGUxbmsXpbdqQ) Is there any information around on building a base for a dial caliper? Is itjust a block of steel or hadwood with a hole drilled through for the arm ofthe caliper or is there more to it than this? Many thanks Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca --Boundary_(ID_d91DgBqmtvGUxbmsXpbdqQ) there any information around on building a base for a dial caliper? Is = block of steel or hadwood with a hole drilled through for the arm of the = or is there more to it than this? Many =thanks Richard --Boundary_(ID_d91DgBqmtvGUxbmsXpbdqQ)-- --Boundary_(ID_r1B96hvINp6ok4sk4HaITw) mail).vcf" BEGIN:VCARDVERSION:2.1N:Nantel;Richard;;;FN:Richard Nantel (E-mail)ORG:Le groupe MENTOR;TITLE:TEL;WORK;VOICE:(514) 393- 3292TEL;HOME;VOICE:(514) 485-2287TEL;PAGER;VOICE:[1] (514) 111- 1111TEL;WORK;FAX:(514) 393-1483ADR;WORK:;;4374 Old Orchard Avenue;Monteal;Quebec;H4A 3B4;CanadaLABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:4374 Old Orchard =Avenue=3D0D=3D0AMonteal, Quebec H4A 3B4=3D0D=3D0ACanadaADR;HOME:;;4374 Old Orchard Avenue;Monteal;Quebec;H4A 3B4;CanadaLABEL;HOME;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:4374 Old Orchard =Avenue=3D0D=3D0AMonteal, Quebec H4A 3B4=3D0D=3D0ACanadaEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:richard.nantel@videotron.caREV:19980514T133343ZEND:VCARD --Boundary_(ID_r1B96hvINp6ok4sk4HaITw)-- from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Sep 28 08:41:26 1998 0500 Subject: Re: Dial caliper base Richard, personallylike the Enco. Richard Nantel wrote: there any information around on building a base for a dial caliper? Isit just a block of steel or hadwood with a hole drilled through for thearm of the caliper or is there more to it thanthis?Many from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Mon Sep 28 08:45:11 1998 JAA07332 Subject: RE: Collector rods IAA15037 Terry, today when I opened my e:mails there were 209 messages. Many ofthose were aimed at you. While I do not build bamboo rods, I do own 40 orso. My point is I LOVE SHORT RODS, 7 * to 5 *. Terry, I've caught 22 inchBrowns with rods of this length on the hallowed Henryville, Pa. waters. I Can we all just keep to rods and rod building, Please. Also, does anyone have any information on the follow rod makers WilliamFink, Beilhardt and Schauer all from Pennsylvania? I have several rods by all except Bill Fink.Thanks. Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Sunday, September 27, 1998 9:45 AM Subject: Collector rods Hi gang,what makes an object or or product collectable? Why dopeople spendmoney on Beaney Babies and mass produced sports cards?Franklin Minthave a whole range of collectable goodies with certificatesofauthenticity include in the price.A few years ago a friend in a local fly shop called me upand arranged guy, he spentall sorts of money and always paid cash.I met the man and he wanted me to build him a rod just forhim. Hetalked of gold, silver and Ivory and a special certificatemade out tohim. I half listened and drank the beer he was buying. Iended uptelling the guy that I would think about it.A couple of weeks later I visited the fly shop to meet theguy again andto see some gear he had purchased. I was shown knives thatcost him afortune." Look at the detail in that hand engraving," hesaid. To me itwas just photo etching. He then showed me a collector rod hehadpurchased from a builder for a tidy sum of bucks. It was nota rod forfishing that is for sure. It was about 6ft long in threepieces and went from the size of your thumb to 1/32. he then showed me someold usedclunkers he had purchased in Kennebunkport.I left and called my friend back later and explained that Iwas notinterested in building the guy a rod, I said that how couldI predictthat the rod I made would be collectable. My friend said anddo notworry and take his cash for the guy is under the tablehimself. I couldnot, the guy had already purchased enough junk without meadding to it. If an article is advertised as being 'collectable' is itreallycollectable or is it is just hype to catch customers?Terry from dryfly@erols.com Mon Sep 28 09:23:24 1998 Subject: Bitchiness Just got through the 141 posts from the weekend, apparently stresscurves don't just apply to rods. from fr.keulen@wxs.nl Mon Sep 28 09:46:57 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA6C8B +0200 Subject: Re: Dial caliper base Richard, I wouldn't even mind buying a proper one. I contacted Mitutoyo inHolland, where I live, but they said they didn/t sell them separatelyanymore. You've got to buy a new calipher set, which then includes abase. I made one of a steel plate. I drilled a hole in it and fitted ashort metal pipe of the same diameter as the shaft underneath thecalipher. I'm not too happy with it though. Rens Oosthoek Richard Nantel wrote: Is there any information around on building a base for a dialcaliper? Is it just a block of steel or hadwood with a hole drilledthrough for the arm of the caliper or is there more to it thanthis?Many thanksRichardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca from anglport@con2.com Mon Sep 28 10:38:32 1998 Subject: Re: Dial caliper base Richard,Yep, that's all there is to it. It has to have an extremely flat base andthe hole has to be dead-on perpendicular to it. Otherwise, be creative. Ibought one from Jon at the gathering and it's too short for my indicator(the point can't retract far enough to zero the thing) so I just took apiece of 1" cherry and some 1/8" brass sheet ( from a hobby shop) and builtthe prettiest one I've ever seen. The cherry is hard enough to tap for aset screw to hold the sleeve and the hole is merely two different diamsdrilled concentrically so the indicator sleeve can sit on the shelf and beheld by the set-screw. I'm sure the cherry isn't going to be dimensionallystable over time, but it won't be a problem I think, between when I zero itand do my settings each time!Enjoy,Art At 08:51 AM 9/28/98 -0400, you wrote: Is there any information around on building a base for a dial caliper? Is itjust a block of steel or hadwood with a hole drilled through for the armofthe caliper or is there more to it than this? Many thanks Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca Is there any information around on building a base for a dial caliper? Is itjust a block of steel or hadwood with a hole drilled through for the arm of thecaliper or is there more to it than this? color=#000000 face=Arial size=2>Manythanks color=#000000 face=Arial size=2>Richard Attachment Converted: c:\eudora\attach\Richard7.vcf from anglport@con2.com Mon Sep 28 10:45:54 1998 Subject: RE: Collector rods KAA27142 Al,Hang around. Bill will pick up the phone shortly. He lives in NJ though, notPA and he's a listmember. Fishes a lot of PA. You might run into him.Art At 09:44 AM 9/28/98 -0400, you wrote:Terry, today when I opened my e:mails there were 209 messages. Many ofthose were aimed at you. While I do not build bamboo rods, I do own 40 orso. My point is I LOVE SHORT RODS, 7 * to 5 *. Terry, I've caught 22 inchBrowns with rods of this length on the hallowed Henryville, Pa. waters. I Can we all just keep to rods and rod building, Please. Also, does anyone have any information on the follow rod makers WilliamFink, Beilhardt and Schauer all from Pennsylvania? I have several rods by all except Bill Fink.Thanks. Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Sunday, September 27, 1998 9:45 AM Subject: Collector rods Hi gang,what makes an object or or product collectable? Why dopeople spendmoney on Beaney Babies and mass produced sports cards?Franklin Minthave a whole range of collectable goodies with certificatesofauthenticity include in the price.A few years ago a friend in a local fly shop called me upand arranged guy, he spentall sorts of money and always paid cash.I met the man and he wanted me to build him a rod just forhim. Hetalked of gold, silver and Ivory and a special certificatemade out tohim. I half listened and drank the beer he was buying. Iended uptelling the guy that I would think about it.A couple of weeks later I visited the fly shop to meet theguy again andto see some gear he had purchased. I was shown knives thatcost him afortune." Look at the detail in that hand engraving," hesaid. To me itwas just photo etching. He then showed me a collector rod hehadpurchased from a builder for a tidy sum of bucks. It was nota rod forfishing that is for sure. It was about 6ft long in threepieces and went from the size of your thumb to 1/32. he then showed me someold usedclunkers he had purchased in Kennebunkport.I left and called my friend back later and explained that Iwas notinterested in building the guy a rod, I said that how couldI predictthat the rod I made would be collectable. My friend said anddo notworry and take his cash for the guy is under the tablehimself. I couldnot, the guy had already purchased enough junk without meadding to it. If an article is advertised as being 'collectable' is itreallycollectable or is it is just hype to catch customers?Terry from sjstill@iquest.net Mon Sep 28 10:49:08 1998 0000 (209.43.54.109) Subject: Barnes - Thanks! Thanks to all who responded with George Barnes' info! Sure is appreciated. Steveback to roofing:-(Steve and Julie StillabowerIndianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net from sjstill@iquest.net Mon Sep 28 10:49:11 1998 0000 (209.43.54.109) Subject: Polishing varnish Hi All, I may be late on this thread (been up roofing most of the weekend), but Ihave tried the Brownells polishes mentioned in the Sinclair book and havebeen *almost* pleased with the results. I bought the smallest containerofeach compound (2oz) and I think used it too sparingly - was afraid I wouldrun out. I did work though, but it is a lot of elbow grease involved! To do it again, I might try Maurer's kit. Not sure of his price, but thestuff from Brownell's for 2 oz of each compound was about 15.00 (nocommercial connection here!) HTH, SteveSteve and Julie StillabowerIndianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net from dr_matro@cyberramp.net Mon Sep 28 10:55:21 1998 ESMTP idKAA00253 Subject: Re: The Ins & Outs Hey, Wayner Thanks for throwing this out to the list. I hope to have the piecefinished in time for the Southern Rodmakers Gathering, and you justadded some valuable insight. Ken from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Mon Sep 28 11:08:34 1998 MAA07237 Subject: RE: Collector rods LAA15425 Thanks a lot. I knew he lived in Medford Lakes NJ. Bill had an article inFly Fisherman I believe in 1971. In the article he mentioned theHenryvillewaters. I wrote a small book last year on some of the history of the cluband noticed Bill was a charter member of the Henryville Flyfishers.Al Hanzich732-878- 6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, September 28, 1998 12:07 PM Subject: RE: Collector rods Al,Hang around. Bill will pick up the phone shortly. He livesin NJ though, notPA and he's a listmember. Fishes a lot of PA. You might runinto him.Art At 09:44 AM 9/28/98 -0400, you wrote:Terry, today when I opened my e:mails there were 209messages. Many ofthose were aimed at you. While I do not build bamboo rods,I do own 40 orso. My point is I LOVE SHORT RODS, 7 * to 5 *. Terry,I've caught 22 inchBrowns with rods of this length on the hallowed Henryville,Pa. waters. I Can we all just keep to rods and rod building, Please. Also, does anyone have any information on the follow rodmakers WilliamFink, Beilhardt and Schauer all from Pennsylvania? I have several rods by all except Bill Fink.Thanks. Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message-----From: Terence Ackland Sent: Sunday, September 27, 1998 9:45 AM Subject: Collector rods Hi gang,what makes an object or or productcollectable? Why dopeople spendmoney on Beaney Babies and mass producedsports cards?Franklin Minthave a whole range of collectable goodieswith certificatesofauthenticity include in the price.A few years ago a friend in a local fly shopcalled me upand arranged heard about thisguy, he spentall sorts of money and always paid cash.I met the man and he wanted me to build hima rod just forhim. Hetalked of gold, silver and Ivory and aspecial certificatemade out tohim. I half listened and drank the beer hewas buying. Iended uptelling the guy that I would think about it.A couple of weeks later I visited the flyshop to meet theguy again andto see some gear he had purchased. I wasshown knives thatcost him afortune." Look at the detail in that handengraving," hesaid. To me itwas just photo etching. He then showed me acollector rod hehadpurchased from a builder for a tidy sum ofbucks. It was nota rod forfishing that is for sure. It was about 6ftlong in threepieces and went from the size of your thumb to 1/32. he thenshowed me someold usedclunkers he had purchased in Kennebunkport.I left and called my friend back later andexplained that Iwas notinterested in building the guy a rod, I saidthat how couldI predictthat the rod I made would be collectable. Myfriend said anddo notworry and take his cash for the guy is underthe tablehimself. I couldnot, the guy had already purchased enoughjunk without meadding to it. If an article is advertised as being'collectable' is itreallycollectable or is it is just hype to catchcustomers?Terry from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Sep 28 11:18:40 1998 Tue, 29 Sep 1998 00:18:33 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Bitchiness On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Robert S Williams wrote: Just got through the 141 posts from the weekend, apparently stresscurves don't just apply to rods. Stress?On a more important note and one possibly worth reading just for a change finished as possible on the lathe. Often the ferrules get stuck when I try for a fit. I've found the best solution for this is to use a rubber jar lid opener. So far I've always been able to dis-assemble any ferrules I can fit together. Tony/***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from dr_matro@cyberramp.net Mon Sep 28 11:19:04 1998 ESMTP idLAA15378 Subject: Re: hand planing I'd try Tony's Chateau Gumboot. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Sep 28 11:21:27 1998 Tue, 29 Sep 1998 00:21:21 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Dial caliper base On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Art Port wrote: Richard,Yep, that's all there is to it. It has to have an extremely flat base andthe hole has to be dead-on perpendicular to it. Otherwise, be creative. Ibought one from Jon at the gathering and it's too short for my indicator(the point can't retract far enough to zero the thing) so I just took apiece of 1" cherry and some 1/8" brass sheet ( from a hobby shop) andbuiltthe prettiest one I've ever seen. The cherry is hard enough to tap for aset screw to hold the sleeve and the hole is merely two different diamsdrilled concentrically so the indicator sleeve can sit on the shelf and beheld by the set-screw. I'm sure the cherry isn't going to be dimensionallystable over time, but it won't be a problem I think, between when I zeroitand do my settings each time!Enjoy,Art Any time you need a good to work, stable wood for this type of thing try Jarrah. It's what I use for my planing forms as well as wooden bodied planes and I can't really think of a better wood for the purpose. Tony from phillips@library.ucsf.edu Mon Sep 28 11:22:26 1998 Subject: Cecil Musser Does anyone have any information about a rodmaker named Cecil W.Musser?All I know is that he lived in Oakland, CA, was making rods in the '60's,and has since passed away. Any help would be appreciated. John H. Phillips III e-mail:phillips@library.ucsf.eduInterlibrary Loan Rm 202Health Sciences LibraryUniversity of California530 Parnassus AveSan Francisco, CA 94143-0840PH: (415) 476-8383FAX: (415) 476-7940 from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Sep 28 11:25:31 1998 0500 Subject: Southern gathering (last post!) Friends,I leave in the morning (Tuesday) for the Gathering. Most of youknow your way around the area, but just in case:To get to Quarry (Dam Site) Park - take AR Hwy. 5 south fromMountain Home to Salesville. Turn left on AR Hwy. 177. Proceed about1.5 miles to the Norfork Dam. There's the Park. We will actually bejust above the Dam, on the lake, not the river, at the pavilion nearestthe scenic overlook. I'll have small, bright yellow signs up pointingthe way on Thursday morning.Should you need or want to contact me, I'll be camped at the DamSite. I'm in a black Mazda van with LA license plates. Stop by to sayhello, or to wet a line. You can try to call on the cell phone @(318)282-1825, but it usually doesn't work right on the river. I'm really looking forward to this gathering. Thank you to all whohave helped put this together. And thanks for the patience of thosewho have put up with all the posts concerning an event they won'tmake. I promise, this is my last post to the list on the subject, atleast until it's over!Harry Boyd from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Sep 28 11:27:05 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Polishing varnish try rotten stone and non silicone furniture polish after going over itwith 0000 steel wool and furniture polish. Thats what we used in theviolin shop that I worked at and it left a shine you could comb yourhair in with very little effort. from start to finish (sanding,steelwooling and polishing) it took 3 hours to do and upright bass which isabout 50 times the area of a fly rod. ----------From: Steve Stillabower[SMTP:sjstill@iquest.net] Sent: Monday, September 28, 1998 8:49 AM Subject: Polishing varnish Hi All, I may be late on this thread (been up roofing most of the weekend),but Ihave tried the Brownells polishes mentioned in the Sinclair book andhavebeen *almost* pleased with the results. I bought the smallestcontainer ofeach compound (2oz) and I think used it too sparingly - was afraid Iwouldrun out. I did work though, but it is a lot of elbow grease involved! To do it again, I might try Maurer's kit. Not sure of his price, butthestuff from Brownell's for 2 oz of each compound was about 15.00 (nocommercial connection here!) HTH, SteveSteve and Julie StillabowerIndianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net ICQ 19299644 from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Mon Sep 28 11:48:38 1998 MAA15531 Subject: RE: Polishing varnish Thanks Pat. Will let you know my results! Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message-----From: Coffey, Patrick W Sent: Monday, September 28, 1998 12:27 PM Subject: RE: Polishing varnish try rotten stone and non silicone furniture polish aftergoing over itwith 0000 steel wool and furniture polish. Thats what weused in theviolin shop that I worked at and it left a shine you couldcomb yourhair in with very little effort. from start to finish(sanding,steelwooling and polishing) it took 3 hours to do and uprightbass which isabout 50 times the area of a fly rod. ----------From: Steve Stillabower[SMTP:sjstill@iquest.net] Sent: Monday, September 28, 1998 8:49 AM Subject: Polishing varnish Hi All, I may be late on this thread (been up roofing most of theweekend),but Ihave tried the Brownells polishes mentioned in theSinclair book andhavebeen *almost* pleased with the results. I bought thesmallestcontainer ofeach compound (2oz) and I think used it too sparingly -was afraid Iwouldrun out. I did work though, but it is a lot of elbowgrease involved! To do it again, I might try Maurer's kit. Not sure of hisprice, butthestuff from Brownell's for 2 oz of each compound was about15.00 (nocommercial connection here!) HTH, SteveSteve and Julie StillabowerIndianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net ICQ 19299644 from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Mon Sep 28 11:59:34 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id LAA06100 for (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id LAA01443 for ; Mon, 28 Sep1998 11:59:32 Subject: dip tube idea As a hobby builder who has made all of 4 rods in 3 years, I've avoideda dip tube setup because I just can't stand to buy something (varnish)which will barely get used before it has to be replaced. This morning in the dentists chair I had an idea for a dip tube thatwould use less than a pint of varnish. (This is a traditional setup,where the rod is dipped down into a long tube then drawn out the top on rods wanting to cling to the side of the tube on withdrawal. Here it is: Why not make the long tube very thin, with a largeropening on top thru which the rod is withdrawn? For a rod sectionwithout guides, 1/2 inch diameter should be plenty. Who cares ifthe rod touches the small tube as long as its withdrawn thru thewider part? The only thing that really matters is the rod leavingthe varnish, right? | | from CALucker@aol.com Mon Sep 28 12:48:34 1998 Subject: Re: no more planing In a message dated 9/25/98 5:34:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time,jlintvet@clarityconnect.com writes: Wrong-- A rod is worth what someone will pay for it. Otherwise, I would put a $12 million price tag on my rods and start sellingthem for a profit rather than the $72 or so I currently charge (if I getaround to charging). Regarding all the fuss about plans for Terry's mill. For God's sake, youguys. If you want a mill, just look at pictures of mills and figure out howto do it. That's what I did and I knew nothing about designing machines. Ihave made about a dozen rough mills and five finish mills -- three of thelatter would do final cuts with no final scraping or planing necessary. It'snot that hard to buld one of these things, especially if you start with anoldhorizontal metal mill and adapt the thing. Rod building is about being creative. Why do you need to be shown how tomakeplaning forms? Make a binder? Build a mill? Just figure it out yourselfandyou will enjoy rod building so much more. Chris Lucker from CALucker@aol.com Mon Sep 28 12:49:10 1998 Subject: Re: composites Yes, he was successful. Cecil was helpful to me in my early years of building, abnd I considderedhima friend. Call me at 310 446-4800 and I will tell you how he did it asshownin his brochure, and how he did it after the brochure was printed. I maystill have a few samples of cross-sections of hisbamboo/graphite/bamboosandwishes to send you if I have not given them all away. Chris Lucker from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Mon Sep 28 13:01:24 1998 Subject: Dial caliper base Richard,First, do you mean a Dial Indicator or a Dial Caliper? Two differentthings. I do not use a base for my Dial Caliper. forms and cut a 3" and 2" piece. I drilled a hole just slightly largerthan the shaft of my Dial Indictor through the center of one side ofeach piece. I lined up the holes and stuck a bolt through and tighteneda nut on the other end. After aligning the pieces, I had them weldedtogether. I removed the bolt and and drilled and tapped a hole for aset screw. I was fortunate enough to find a nylon screw for the setscrew. This doesn't damage the shaft of my Dial Indicator. I have usedthe same treatment on the sole of the base that is used on the sole of aplane to make sure that it is true and flat. This seems to work great easier to hold in my hand and so that I didn't get scratched. This isalso heavy enough so that it overcomes the spring in the Dial Indicator. ____ ____/ | o| \ from doddd@monroe.army.mil Mon Sep 28 13:01:41 1998 (5.5.2232.9) Subject: RE: Bitchiness All, Answer to ferrule removal problem....see page 117 ofGarrison/Carmichael,"A masters guide to Building A Bamboo Fly Rod. It is a small wooden , twopartclamp like you would use to secure copper tubing to flare the end. Thisdeviceis home made and seems to work well. Keeps the ferrule round and allowsfora larger area to use as a handle. David W. DoddConcepts GateKeepersBattleLab Integration, Technology and Concepts DirectorateDSN 680-3995 FAX 680-3445 -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Bitchiness On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Robert S Williams wrote: Just got through the 141 posts from the weekend, apparently stresscurves don't just apply to rods. Stress?On a more important note and one possibly worth reading just for a change finished as possible on the lathe. Often the ferrules get stuck when I try for a fit. I've found the best solution for this is to use a rubber jar lid opener. So far I've always been able to dis-assemble any ferrules I can fit together. Tony/***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from chris@artistree.com Mon Sep 28 13:11:42 1998 LAA04958 Subject: Re: Cecil Musser John,You might want to contact Jim Adams in Berkeley, CA @ 510-849- 1324.ThinkI've seen a listing for a Musser rod in a one of his past catalogs. Jim canbe a pretty good source of info on the local makers of past & present.--Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com John H. Phillips III wrote: Does anyone have any information about a rodmaker named Cecil W.Musser?All I know is that he lived in Oakland, CA, was making rods in the '60's,and has since passed away. Any help would be appreciated. John H. Phillips III e-mail:phillips@library.ucsf.eduInterlibrary Loan Rm 202Health Sciences LibraryUniversity of California530 Parnassus AveSan Francisco, CA 94143-0840PH: (415) 476-8383FAX: (415) 476-7940 from KDLoup@aol.com Mon Sep 28 13:32:56 1998 Subject: Re: Reel plans Davy,I just received a beautiful handmade reel from a friend in theflyfishingclub. He surely would love a copy. Thanks. Kurt Loup8474 Harold DriveDenham Springs, LA 70726 from KDLoup@aol.com Mon Sep 28 13:45:34 1998 Subject: Re: Hurricane Georges I am about 50-75 miles from New Orleans and I haven't even received rain. Thewind is gusty though. If you have seen video from NO on CNN or theWeatherChannel, it is hard to believe how relatively calm it is here. Kurt Loup from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Sep 28 13:55:14 1998 Subject: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine The printers have had a slight problem, Mark was awayat the time (see below if interested), and the magazine should start shipping Thursday. There is stuff about fishing bamboo, but those of you who don't want to read about non-rodmaking stuff hit the "Delete" key now.... As a thank you for the work I have been doing for themagazine Mark Metcalf took me out with some ofthe other BFRM staff on a three day camping trip in the Eastern Sierra Mountains. This was just like a guided trip. He did all the cooking, washing dishes, camp chores. All I had to do was fish with one of the dozen bamboo rods he brought along and eat the wonderful food he prepared, and Mark is a great camp cook - "Drunk" chicken (chicken cooked in beer and other spices), campfire roasted corn on the cob, O'Brien potatoes, coffee ready in the morning, the list of food he prepared was endless. I found I liked Heddons more than Grangers, and thereactually is an Orvis bamboo rod that I like to cast - it'sand old one, made in the 1920's or 30's. bamboo rods recently. They are a fairly good imitationof a silk line, with more "body" , and a little thinner than a regular plastic line of the same weight number. I stillthink silk is better, but if I didn't have a silk line I wouldget a McKenzie line - I still probably will buy a McKenzieline to use on some of my other rods. This line has tobe dressed, like a silk line, I think because it is thinnerit doesn't rely on air filled micro-balloons to float, insteadit floats due to the surface dressing. I had Mark try out my "killer" fly for this area, and a couplehours later he comes to me and asks what the name of the fly is. It has no name, it's a fly I made up and I always dowell in these mountains with it. The fly had worked it'smagic for Mark. I know what you are are thinking - "Oh sure, another guy with yet another "killer" fly". But now I have proof. Just write or call Mark and ask him about this fly. Fish will take it on a dead drift, they will take it twitched at the end of a drift, they will take it skittered on the surface, and they will take it sunken on a dead drift or stripping it back like a streamer. I know these are fantastic claims, but like I said, I invite you to write or call Mark and ask him about it. He was even saying I should writean article about it. I had to show him first though, he would havesaid "Yeah sure, another "killer" fly.....". He is having me tieup about 5 dozen to bring to Montana so he can use them,and give to his friends he is meeting there, if the flies work inMontana. I've never been there so I can't say if they work there or not. Everyone had a wonderful time, everyone caught fish, exceptthe Graphic Artist, it was her first time fishing of any type andthose Gucci shoes and Yve St. Laurent pants must have offendedthe fish gods or something. Darryl Hayashida from phillips@library.ucsf.edu Mon Sep 28 15:05:34 1998 Subject: Re: Cecil Musser At 11:19 AM 9/28/98 -0800, you wrote:John,You might want to contact Jim Adams in Berkeley, CA @ 510-849-1324.ThinkI've seen a listing for a Musser rod in a one of his past catalogs. Jim canbe a pretty good source of info on the local makers of past & present.--Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com Thanks, will do.John Phillips from phillips@library.ucsf.edu Mon Sep 28 15:11:15 1998 Subject: Re: McKenzie fly lines At 02:53 PM 9/28/98 EDT, you wrote: bamboo rods recently. They are a fairly good imitationof a silk line, with more "body" , and a little thinner than a regular plastic line of the same weight number. I stillthink silk is better, but if I didn't have a silk line I wouldget a McKenzie line - I still probably will buy a McKenzieline to use on some of my other rods. This line has tobe dressed, like a silk line, I think because it is thinnerit doesn't rely on air filled micro-balloons to float, insteadit floats due to the surface dressing. Darryl,Do you know of a retail outlet for these lines? I sent an e-mailto the company, and all I received was a list of every retail flyfishingoutletin Northern California. Thanks, John Phillips from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Sep 28 15:24:54 1998 Subject: Re: McKenzie fly lines In a message dated 9/28/98 1:18:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time,phillips@library.ucsf.edu writes: Darryl,Do you know of a retail outlet for these lines? I sent an e-mailto the company, and all I received was a list of every retail flyfishingoutletin Northern California. I'll try to find out for you, the line I tried wasn't mine, it wasMark's.Darryl from cmj@post11.tele.dk Mon Sep 28 15:31:42 1998 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0200 Subject: Chapman Tuna Rod PAA11796 Info wanted! Have been asked to make repairs on what seems to to a Tuna or sailfishRod, made heavyand, ofcourse, a cane rod. Any info is of interest regards, Carsten from tom@cet-inc.com Mon Sep 28 16:34:39 1998 0000 Subject: Re: dip tube idea Frank,I use a similar set-up only my "small" tube is about 1" copper and I use a2" reducer on the top. About 1 qt. of varnish is needed. One thing you haveto plan for is the height of tube required for displacing varnish when youdip the butt. The 2" top section on my tube serves to reduce the side wallrequirements for the displacement.Tom Whittle-----Original Message----- Subject: dip tube idea As a hobby builder who has made all of 4 rods in 3 years, I've avoideda dip tube setup because I just can't stand to buy something (varnish)which will barely get used before it has to be replaced. Thismorning in the dentists chair I had an idea for a dip tube thatwould use less than a pint of varnish. (This is a traditional setup,where the rod is dipped down into a long tube then drawn out the top on rods wanting to cling to the side of the tube on withdrawal. Here it is: Why not make the long tube very thin, with a largeropening on top thru which the rod is withdrawn? For a rod sectionwithout guides, 1/2 inch diameter should be plenty. Who cares ifthe rod touches the small tube as long as its withdrawn thru thewider part? The only thing that really matters is the rod leavingthe varnish, right? | | |--------| | |\ /\ / \ /| | | | so rod is not scratched| | than 1/2 pint varnish. You can make it long enough for a 1 piecerod without buying a gallon of varnish. If you dip with the guides on, maybe a 1x1/2 inch rectangular tubecould be found, or some other creative solution.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Sep 28 17:09:53 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Mon,28Sep 1998 18:18:19 -0400 Subject: Re: no more planing I have a hard time with that. Build a 12mil rod and I will sell it for you. Might take a while, but I'll do it. :) Wrong-- A rod is worth what someone will pay for it. Otherwise, I would put a $12 million price tag on my rods and startselling them for a profit rather than the $72 or so I currently charge (ifI get around to charging). Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Sep 28 17:09:59 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Mon,28Sep 1998 18:18:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Dial caliper base Guess you took care of that before I could. As for the base...why didn't it fit again? On 28 Sep 98, at 11:59, Art Port wrote: Richard,Yep, that's all there is to it. It has to have an extremely flat base andthe hole has to be dead-on perpendicular to it. Otherwise, be creative. Ibought one from Jon at the gathering and it's too short for my indicator(the point can't retract far enough to zero the thing) so I just took apiece of 1" cherry and some 1/8" brass sheet ( from a hobby shop) andbuiltthe prettiest one I've ever seen. The cherry is hard enough to tap for aset screw to hold the sleeve and the hole is merely two different diamsdrilled concentrically so the indicator sleeve can sit on the shelf and beheld by the set-screw. I'm sure the cherry isn't going to be dimensionallystable over time, but it won't be a problem I think, between when I zeroit and do my settings each time! Enjoy, Art At 08:51 AM 9/28/98 -0400, you wrote: Is there any information around on building a base for a dial caliper? Isit just a block of steel or hadwood with a hole drilled through for thearm of the caliper or is there more to it than this? Many thanks Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca size=2>Is there any information around on building a base for a dialcaliper? Is itjust a block of steel or hadwood with a hole drilled through for the arm of thecaliper or is there more to it than this? color=#000000 face=Arial size=2>Manythanks color=#000000 face=Arialsize=2>Richard Attachment Converted: c:\eudora\attach\Richard7.vcf Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Sep 28 17:10:00 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Mon,28Sep 1998 18:18:28 -0400 Subject: Re: dip tube idea Frank...were you looking at the spitter again? On 28 Sep 98, at 11:59, Frank Stetzer wrote: As a hobby builder who has made all of 4 rods in 3 years, I've avoided adip tube setup because I just can't stand to buy something (varnish)whichwill barely get used before it has to be replaced. This morning in thedentists chair I had an idea for a dip tube that would use less than apint of varnish. (This is a traditional setup, where the rod is dippeddown into a long tube then drawn out the top by a string.) The idea came from the discussion here a few weeks ago on rods wanting to cling to theside of the tube on withdrawal. Here it is: Why not make the long tube very thin, with a largeropening on top thru which the rod is withdrawn? For a rod sectionwithout guides, 1/2 inch diameter should be plenty. Who cares ifthe rod touches the small tube as long as its withdrawn thru thewider part? The only thing that really matters is the rod leavingthe varnish, right? | | |--------| | |\ /\ / \ /| | | so rod is not scratched | | section of 1/2 inch tube than 1/2 pint varnish. You can make it long enough for a 1 piecerod without buying a gallon of varnish. If you dip with the guides on, maybe a 1x1/2 inch rectangular tubecould be found, or some other creative solution.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke, Univof Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from channer@hubwest.com Mon Sep 28 18:22:36 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AA9B112B0114; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:24:11 MDT Subject: Re: Dial caliper base At 12:21 AM 9/29/98 +0800, you wrote:On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Art Port wrote: Richard,Yep, that's all there is to it. It has to have an extremely flat base andthe hole has to be dead-on perpendicular to it. Otherwise, be creative. Ibought one from Jon at the gathering and it's too short for my indicator(the point can't retract far enough to zero the thing) so I just took apiece of 1" cherry and some 1/8" brass sheet ( from a hobby shop) andbuiltthe prettiest one I've ever seen. The cherry is hard enough to tap for aset screw to hold the sleeve and the hole is merely two different diamsdrilled concentrically so the indicator sleeve can sit on the shelf and beheld by the set-screw. I'm sure the cherry isn't going to bedimensionallystable over time, but it won't be a problem I think, between when I zeroitand do my settings each time!Enjoy,Art Any time you need a good to work, stable wood for this type of thing try Jarrah. It's what I use for my planing forms as well as wooden bodied planes and I can't really think of a better wood for the purpose. Tony Tony;Jarrah may be common as dirt in Australia, but it is a little hard to findhere. Maple works just fine, as will most any other hardwood. Teak isprobably as dimensionally stable as a wood need to be. The extremelyfussycould use Baltic Birch plywood, as Wayne mentions in his book, if theyhavesome or can get a small piece. 1 1/2"x1 1/2"x1 1/2" is all as big as a base measuring planed strips) needs to be.John Channer from anglport@con2.com Mon Sep 28 18:23:12 1998 Subject: Re: no more planing Jon,What the hell do they teach you at that infernal school, to make compactswith the devil? I know Cornell is good but that sounds like miraculous! Ordid you arrive with this God-given ability and they're only helping you totune it ?Art At 06:08 PM 9/28/98 -0400, you wrote:I have a hard time with that. Build a 12mil rod and I will sell it for you. Might take a while, but I'll do it. :) Wrong-- A rod is worth what someone will pay for it. Otherwise, I would put a $12 million price tag on my rods and startselling them for a profit rather than the $72 or so I currently charge (ifI get around to charging). Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from channer@hubwest.com Mon Sep 28 18:26:52 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AB9D113F0114; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:28:29 MDT Subject: Re: dip tube idea At 11:59 AM 9/28/98 -0500, you wrote:As a hobby builder who has made all of 4 rods in 3 years, I've avoideda dip tube setup because I just can't stand to buy something (varnish)which will barely get used before it has to be replaced. This morning in the dentists chair I had an idea for a dip tube thatwould use less than a pint of varnish. (This is a traditional setup,where the rod is dipped down into a long tube then drawn out the top on rods wanting to cling to the side of the tube on withdrawal. Here it is: Why not make the long tube very thin, with a largeropening on top thru which the rod is withdrawn? For a rod sectionwithout guides, 1/2 inch diameter should be plenty. Who cares ifthe rod touches the small tube as long as its withdrawn thru thewider part? The only thing that really matters is the rod leavingthe varnish, right? | | |--------| | |\ /\ / \ /| | | | so rod is not scratched| | than 1/2 pint varnish. You can make it long enough for a 1 piecerod without buying a gallon of varnish. If you dip with the guides on, maybe a 1x1/2 inch rectangular tubecould be found, or some other creative solution.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. Frank;I don't see why this wouldn't work just fine. Just be sure to give yourselfplenty of larger tube at the top, the rod will displace a lot of thevarnish when you lower it in. I think I would also put the bottom of thetube in a coffee can or something, just in case.John from anglport@con2.com Mon Sep 28 18:27:27 1998 Subject: Re: dip tube idea Frank,I LIKE it! I HAVE a dip tube and it probably needs recharging. The lowvolume of yours looks like it'd be worth throwing the old one out andstarting from scratch again. What's that they say about "Yankeeingenuity"?It works for me,Art On 28 Sep 98, at 11:59, Frank Stetzer wrote: Here it is: Why not make the long tube very thin, with a largeropening on top thru which the rod is withdrawn? For a rod sectionwithout guides, 1/2 inch diameter should be plenty. Who cares ifthe rod touches the small tube as long as its withdrawn thru thewider part? The only thing that really matters is the rod leavingthe varnish, right? | | > |--------| > | |\ /\ / > \ /| | > | so rod is not scratched | | > section of 1/2 inch tube than 1/2 pint varnish. You can make it long enough for a 1 piecerod without buying a gallon of varnish. If you dip with the guides on, maybe a 1x1/2 inch rectangular tubecould be found, or some other creative solution.......................................................................Frank Stetzer Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from sats@gte.net Mon Sep 28 18:28:35 1998 Subject: Re: Bitchiness If Terry (A) ever has anythingto say that will be helpful to me in that pursuit, I hope he says it. I think he'd say that the best thing all of us could do for rod making is buyone of his rods.... Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from channer@hubwest.com Mon Sep 28 18:40:55 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AEE7AE50148; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:42:31 MDT Subject: Re: no more planing At 01:45 PM 9/28/98 EDT, you wrote:In a message dated 9/25/98 5:34:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time,jlintvet@clarityconnect.com writes: their rods...that's what it's worth! >> Wrong-- A rod is worth what someone will pay for it. Otherwise, I would put a $12 million price tag on my rods and startsellingthem for a profit rather than the $72 or so I currently charge (if I getaround to charging). Regarding all the fuss about plans for Terry's mill. For God's sake, youguys. If you want a mill, just look at pictures of mills and figure out howto do it. That's what I did and I knew nothing about designing machines. Ihave made about a dozen rough mills and five finish mills -- three of thelatter would do final cuts with no final scraping or planing necessary. It'snot that hard to buld one of these things, especially if you start with anoldhorizontal metal mill and adapt the thing. Rod building is about being creative. Why do you need to be shown how tomakeplaning forms? Make a binder? Build a mill? Just figure it out yourselfandyou will enjoy rod building so much more. Chris Lucker Chris;I hope you forgot to hit the 0 at the end of that price, otherwise I guessI am seriously overcharging. As to the rest, I was wondering whensomeonewould point this out. Most of the challenge is in making the stuff to makethe rod with, actually making a rod is not all that difficult, if it was, Iwouldn't be able to do it. John Channer from CampblRods@aol.com Mon Sep 28 18:49:11 1998 Subject: Re: composites Looking at the cross-section, he used two pieces of cane with graphite inthemiddle for each strip. So, they have a cane outside and a cane inside withgraphite between and they were hollow.Steve CampbellCampbell Rod Co.Brewer,Maine from bdcreek@grand-rapids.crosswinds.net Mon Sep 28 18:52:31 1998 (envelope- from bdcreek@grand-rapids.crosswinds.net) Subject: testing my server - ignore me. Test, test test. from fiveside@net-gate.com Mon Sep 28 19:20:46 1998 ns1.net-gate.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA11014 for Subject: Pollution To All resource here being polluted. It's our list of course. I won't comment aboutthe bickering. International experts have covered that ground for sure. Butwhen I dial up and find over fifty messages many of which are addressedtoMike or Sam or you-know-who it's puzzling. Couldn't we stop for a momentandconsider whether it's not better to send this message direct? Is this listan ego trip?? Bill from harry37@epix.net Mon Sep 28 19:27:30 1998 UAA07481 Subject: Re: dip tube idea Frank Stetzer wrote: As a hobby builder who has made all of 4 rods in 3 years, I've avoideda dip tube setup because I just can't stand to buy something (varnish)which will barely get used before it has to be replaced. Thismorning in the dentists chair I had an idea for a dip tube thatwould use less than a pint of varnish. (This is a traditional setup,where the rod is dipped down into a long tube then drawn out the top on rods wanting to cling to the side of the tube on withdrawal. Here it is: Why not make the long tube very thin, with a largeropening on top thru which the rod is withdrawn? For a rod sectionwithout guides, 1/2 inch diameter should be plenty. Who cares ifthe rod touches the small tube as long as its withdrawn thru thewider part? The only thing that really matters is the rod leavingthe varnish, right? | | |--------| | |\ /\ / \ /| | | | so rod is not scratched| | than 1/2 pint varnish. You can make it long enough for a 1 piecerod without buying a gallon of varnish. If you dip with the guides on, maybe a 1x1/2 inch rectangular tubecould be found, or some other creative solution.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. Why not just use 1/2" pvc and let it drain once the blank is centered inthe tube? Use a small hole or set up a drain with aquarium air tubingand a plastic valve? I haven't used it, but it seems like it mightwork. Greg from rcurry@top.monad.net Mon Sep 28 19:33:41 1998 Subject: Re: figuring it out CALucker@aol.com wrote:Regarding all the fuss about plans for Terry's mill. For God's sake, youguys. If you want a mill, just look at pictures of mills and figure outhowto do it. That's what I did and I knew nothing about designing machines. Ihave made about a dozen rough mills and five finish mills -- three of thelatter would do final cuts with no final scraping or planing necessary. It'snot that hard to buld one of these things, especially if you start with anoldhorizontal metal mill and adapt the thing. Rod building is about being creative. Why do you need to be shown how tomakeplaning forms? Make a binder? Build a mill? Just figure it out yourselfandyou will enjoy rod building so much more. Chris LuckerChris,You confuse me. I know you would do anything to help a beginner, or amaster, with a problem; your very next email proved that.The list was not upset about anyone's failing to share their hard-wonknowledge; it was the insults, etc.As to people figuring it out for themselves; todays' emails containedaclever (because of its simplicity) modification to the standard diptube.Ain't this list grand,Reed from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Sep 28 19:40:21 1998 Subject: Medved Beveler Plans To Al. Since I posted the pictures and have had inquiries for the plans - I have just posted a small (26K) PDF file on the same pageas the pictures - just below them - easy to find for those whowere asking. Just click on the plans and should download andall you need is the Adobe Acrobat Reader which is a free download.These plans should help those who are interestedin building one.To give credit - these plans were originally done my Mark Hallowellbased upon measurements taken at Grayling. Al Medved hasmade some modifications and promised updated plans sometime.I will also try to scan his old ones sometime this week and post. from ragnarig@integrityol.com Mon Sep 28 20:10:41 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A5D120C0296; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 18:20:17 PDT Subject: Re: Reel plans To All Who Have Requested Reprints of the Reel Plans Today I mailed plans to the first dozen or so who asked for them this time.However, the response was so enthusiastic that Chris Bogart has offeredtoput the pages up on his web site, and I'm in the process of trying to figureout how to send them to him. So if you don't get your letter in the mail in a few days, be patient, andthey'll be available for all in a little while- thanks to Chris! Davy from psteigman@tyler.net Mon Sep 28 21:03:31 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 0- 54929U30000L30000S0V35)with SMTP id net for ;Mon, 28 Sep 1998 20:51:59 -0500 Subject: Refurbish info. Hello all, I'm new to this and was wanting to refurbish a rod that my Dad had. I'vebeen searching the FAQ, but did not see much on refurbish. Is there a good source online for this information or could someonerecommend a book? Sincerely, Pat Steigman http://www.tyler.net/psteigman ...........................................................................Go often to the house of thy friend, for weeds choke the unused path.-Ralph Waldo Emerson from bacon@idt.net Mon Sep 28 21:09:31 1998 Subject: Re: Pollution Bill Fink wrote: To All resource here being polluted. It's our list of course. I won't commentaboutthe bickering. International experts have covered that ground for sure.Butwhen I dial up and find over fifty messages many of which are addressedtoMike or Sam or you-know-who it's puzzling. Couldn't we stop for amoment andconsider whether it's not better to send this message direct? Is this listan ego trip?? BillDear Bill,Amen, I only wanted to learn something about building a bamboo rod,butI wanted to send an INDIVIDUAL PERSON an INDIVIDUAL MESSAGE, andreceivean INDIVIDUAL ANSWER.....I'm completely overwhelmed by all the mail, andhave become confused by all the info..TOO much for one woman to handle. JEAN from dmcfall@ODYSSEE.NET Mon Sep 28 21:44:27 1998 Subject: Re: Refurbish info. The bible on restoration is "Michael Sinclair's 'Bamboo Rod RestorationHandbook'" I think it is available from Anglers Art - search the web and Iam sure you will find it. Good luck it is addictive. Dave M At 09:03 PM 9/28/98 -0500, you wrote:Hello all, I'm new to this and was wanting to refurbish a rod that my Dad had. I'vebeen searching the FAQ, but did not see much on refurbish. Is there a good source online for this information or could someonerecommend a book? Sincerely, Pat Steigman http://www.tyler.net/psteigman ...........................................................................Go often to the house of thy friend, for weeds choke the unused path.-Ralph Waldo Emerson from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Mon Sep 28 21:48:46 1998 (modemcable241.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: Dial indicator base question #2 BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_Q1eNtXOTPPl3zPpR++NlRA)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_Q1eNtXOTPPl3zPpR++NlRA) Many thanks to everyone who helped with my question about building abase put a post on about how the indicator base somehow creates a readingfromthe sides of the point rather than the tip. Since the tip is resting on aflat surface when in the base, aren't we measuring from that point to thevirtual deepest point of our planing form's groove? In other words, thelowest point of our inverted equilateral triangle? Richard --Boundary_(ID_Q1eNtXOTPPl3zPpR++NlRA) thanks to everyone who helped with my question about building a base for= indicator. I still feel like an idiot, though. Someone recently put a = about how the indicator base somehow creates a reading from the sides of= point rather than the tip. Since the tip is resting on a flat surface = the base, aren't we measuring from that point to the virtual deepest = our planing form's groove? In other words, the lowest point of our = equilateral triangle? Richard --Boundary_(ID_Q1eNtXOTPPl3zPpR++NlRA)-- from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Sep 28 21:54:40 1998 Subject: Re: Bitchiness ENOUGH IS ENOUGH Amen.Hank. from richjez@enteract.com Mon Sep 28 22:11:36 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Dial caliper base There you go again Tony. Speak English pleast. Things like Oak, Maple,Walnut,and Cherry are good English words. Jarrah ??? It sounds like something with a screw top. Rich Jezioro At 12:21 AM 9/29/98 +0800, you wrote:On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Art Port wrote: Richard,Yep, that's all there is to it. It has to have an extremely flat base andthe hole has to be dead-on perpendicular to it. Otherwise, be creative. Ibought one from Jon at the gathering and it's too short for my indicator(the point can't retract far enough to zero the thing) so I just took apiece of 1" cherry and some 1/8" brass sheet ( from a hobby shop) andbuiltthe prettiest one I've ever seen. The cherry is hard enough to tap for aset screw to hold the sleeve and the hole is merely two different diamsdrilled concentrically so the indicator sleeve can sit on the shelf and beheld by the set-screw. I'm sure the cherry isn't going to bedimensionallystable over time, but it won't be a problem I think, between when I zeroitand do my settings each time!Enjoy,Art Any time you need a good to work, stable wood for this type of thing try Jarrah. It's what I use for my planing forms as well as wooden bodied planes and I can't really think of a better wood for the purpose. Tony *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ /||/______/_||_________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Sep 28 22:36:29 1998 Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:36:20 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Dial caliper base On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, john channer wrote: Tony;Jarrah may be common as dirt in Australia, but it is a little hard to findhere. Maple works just fine, as will most any other hardwood. Teak isprobably as dimensionally stable as a wood need to be. The extremelyfussycould use Baltic Birch plywood, as Wayne mentions in his book, if theyhavesome or can get a small piece. 1 1/2"x1 1/2"x1 1/2" is all as big as abase measuring planed strips) needs to be.John Channer Jarrah is common here in the West of Aust but not so in the East however I heard recently is is available in the US. I only mention it because of it's quite dense with straight grain and stands up to wear very well.Only mentioned it in case you ever see it it's worth a go. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Sep 28 22:44:48 1998 Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:44:40 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Reel plans On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, David wrote: To All Who Have Requested Reprints of the Reel Plans Today I mailed plans to the first dozen or so who asked for them thistime.However, the response was so enthusiastic that Chris Bogart has offeredtoput the pages up on his web site, and I'm in the process of trying tofigureout how to send them to him. So if you don't get your letter in the mail in a few days, be patient, andthey'll be available for all in a little while- thanks to Chris! Davy Davy,I'll scan my set and email the scans to Chis if you like. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Mon Sep 28 23:53:44 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: dip tube idea What you described is an arrow dip tank (for painting arrows forarchery...used to make those). I don't know if you can still buy themcommercially from Anderson Archery in Grand Ledge, Michigan...but that iswhere I got mine. They have screw on metal caps (you can store yourpaint/varnish in there) and were quite cheap.Only downside, few arrows are longer than 31". George Bourke (with no connection to the supplier named above)-----Original Message----- Subject: dip tube idea As a hobby builder who has made all of 4 rods in 3 years, I've avoideda dip tube setup because I just can't stand to buy something (varnish)which will barely get used before it has to be replaced. Thismorning in the dentists chair I had an idea for a dip tube thatwould use less than a pint of varnish. (This is a traditional setup,where the rod is dipped down into a long tube then drawn out the top on rods wanting to cling to the side of the tube on withdrawal. Here it is: Why not make the long tube very thin, with a largeropening on top thru which the rod is withdrawn? For a rod sectionwithout guides, 1/2 inch diameter should be plenty. Who cares ifthe rod touches the small tube as long as its withdrawn thru thewider part? The only thing that really matters is the rod leavingthe varnish, right? | | |--------| | |\ /\ / \ /| | | | so rod is not scratched| | than 1/2 pint varnish. You can make it long enough for a 1 piecerod without buying a gallon of varnish. If you dip with the guides on, maybe a 1x1/2 inch rectangular tubecould be found, or some other creative solution.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Tue Sep 29 00:05:34 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: no more planing -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: no more planing At 01:45 PM 9/28/98 EDT, you wrote:In a message dated 9/25/98 5:34:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time,jlintvet@clarityconnect.com writes: their rods...that's what it's worth! >> Wrong-- A rod is worth what someone will pay for it.Otherwise, I would put a $12 million price tag on my rods and startsellingthem for a profit rather than the $72 or so I currently charge (if I getaround to charging). Regarding all the fuss about plans for Terry's mill. For God's sake, youguys. If you want a mill, just look at pictures of mills and figure outhowto do it. That's what I did and I knew nothing about designing machines.Ihave made about a dozen rough mills and five finish mills -- three of thelatter would do final cuts with no final scraping or planing necessary.It'snot that hard to buld one of these things, especially if you start with anoldhorizontal metal mill and adapt the thing. Rod building is about being creative. Why do you need to be shown howtomakeplaning forms? Make a binder? Build a mill? Just figure it out yourselfandyou will enjoy rod building so much more. Chris Lucker Chris;I hope you forgot to hit the 0 at the end of that price, otherwise I guessI am seriously overcharging. As to the rest, I was wondering whensomeonewould point this out. Most of the challenge is in making the stuff to makethe rod with, actually making a rod is not all that difficult, if it was, Iwouldn't be able to do it. John Channer Damn, I already had the check written! ;^) George Bourke from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Tue Sep 29 00:16:17 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: figuring it out -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: figuring it out CALucker@aol.com wrote:Regarding all the fuss about plans for Terry's mill. For God's sake, youguys. If you want a mill, just look at pictures of mills and figure outhowto do it. That's what I did and I knew nothing about designing machines.Ihave made about a dozen rough mills and five finish mills -- three ofthelatter would do final cuts with no final scraping or planing necessary.It'snot that hard to buld one of these things, especially if you start withan oldhorizontal metal mill and adapt the thing. Rod building is about being creative. Why do you need to be shown howtomakeplaning forms? Make a binder? Build a mill? Just figure it outyourself andyou will enjoy rod building so much more. Chris LuckerChris,You confuse me. I know you would do anything to help a beginner, or amaster, with a problem; your very next email proved that.The list was not upset about anyone's failing to share their hard-wonknowledge; it was the insults, etc.As to people figuring it out for themselves; todays' emails contained aclever (because of its simplicity) modification to the standard diptube.Ain't this list grand,Reed Another point: I have no interest in copying anything that someone hasdone, but my natural inclination is view everything that has been donebefore as a STARTING POINT, to be examined to look for ways to improveexisting methods. But at the same time I am trying to keep itpractical...something that a home builder / small business can reasonablybuild. (If I wanted to go for the "Star Wars" version, I'd walk through thebuilding that I work in over to the next building where our company has itsPrecision Motion Control division and see how the laser interferometryfolksdo things to get control down to less than a millionth of an inch.) George Bourke from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Sep 29 06:53:17 1998 Subject: Re: Dial indicator base question #2 In a message dated 9/29/98 3:16:26 AM, you wrote: Yes, That is so. The point the other fellow was trying to make is that whenyou zero the indicator by pressing it against a flat surface, there isalmostalways an error. This is because the indicator point is not completelysharp.A rounding off of .002, for example would still feel like a sharp point, butyou are building in an error of +.002 in all your measurements, this willresult in a +.004 error in the finished rod. The only way to get an accuratezero is to use a device that bears against the side of the indicator point,just as he sides of your forms will. I got a small block of steel fromGeorgeMaurer a while back. It has a 60* groove of known depth milled into it, andgives me the accurate zero. More recently, Jon Lintvet has made availablethesteel block with the accurate holes reamed into it, this does the samething adifferent way.An equally tricky problem exists in the measurement of finished strips. Ifyou put the strip in a caliper or micrometer you are going to bend over theapex slightly, and again get an inaccurate reading. The only way aroundthisis to have a 60* groove of known depth in the anvil of the mike or caliper,sothat the apex of the strip becomes irrelevant. This whole businesspresentssome tricky problems of calibration, but adressing them is the only way toapproach real accuracy. from harry37@epix.net Tue Sep 29 07:27:37 1998 SMTP idIAA27560 Subject: Re: dip tube idea irish-george wrote: What you described is an arrow dip tank (for painting arrows forarchery...used to make those). I don't know if you can still buy themcommercially from Anderson Archery in Grand Ledge, Michigan...but thatiswhere I got mine. They have screw on metal caps (you can store yourpaint/varnish in there) and were quite cheap.Only downside, few arrows are longer than 31". George Bourke (with no connection to the supplier named above)-----Original Message-----From: Frank Stetzer Date: Monday, September 28, 1998 10:06 AMSubject: dip tube idea As a hobby builder who has made all of 4 rods in 3 years, I've avoideda dip tube setup because I just can't stand to buy something (varnish)which will barely get used before it has to be replaced. Thismorning in the dentists chair I had an idea for a dip tube thatwould use less than a pint of varnish. (This is a traditional setup,where the rod is dipped down into a long tube then drawn out the top on rods wanting to cling to the side of the tube on withdrawal. Here it is: Why not make the long tube very thin, with a largeropening on top thru which the rod is withdrawn? For a rod sectionwithout guides, 1/2 inch diameter should be plenty. Who cares ifthe rod touches the small tube as long as its withdrawn thru thewider part? The only thing that really matters is the rod leavingthe varnish, right? | | > |--------| > | |\ /\ / > \ /| | > | | so rod is not scratched| | > than 1/2 pint varnish. You can make it long enough for a 1 piecerod without buying a gallon of varnish. If you dip with the guides on, maybe a 1x1/2 inch rectangular tubecould be found, or some other creative solution.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. I was trying to visualize your idea, with this nagging thought that I'dseen this somewhere before--Thanks for the connection. If you'relooking, try Three Rivers Archery--I believe they have a website and youcan buy online, If memory serves me correctly. Greg from MICK@welfen-netz.com Tue Sep 29 08:11:29 1998 [195.143.56.1]with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Tue,29 Sep 199815:10:39 +0200 Subject: Re: for tone So why don't you just hush up and leave the list amd stop filling myharddisk? btw I'm 54Michael H. Mueller Terence Ackland wrote: Tone, I have trashed probably the last 20 of your bitchiness threadswithout reading them.If I see you name besides a contribution I will trash it unread.I suggest you do the same.Terry from michael@wugate.wustl.edu Tue Sep 29 09:27:01 1998 Subject: Re: testing my server - ignore me. Brian - up the - Creek seez... :-) Test, test test. This is a friendly list Brian, we don't need all this "test"-iness!!! :-) ORN (Obligatory Rodmaking Note): Loosing much sleep trying to finish arod, which I am bound&determined to have ready by the SouthernRodmakersGathering. Final dip night before last, mounting the reel seat tonight. Ican see light at the end of the tunnel (sure hope it's not a train!) Mike - SRGB (Southern Rodmakers Gathering Bound) - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Sep 29 10:35:03 1998 via smap(4.1) Subject: RE: Dip Tube Idea The tube being referred to as an arrow shaft dipping tube is called the "Pro Dipper". It was created by Dave Doran of Archery Past in Bend, Oregon several years back and had been selling for about $10. To my knowledge they are only manufactured in a length of about 35", or the really short ones for crown dipping the arrows. These lengths don't work for fly rods very well. You can dip some configurations, but many are too long. I used this tube early on. The concept is good, but a longer tube is really needed for fly rods. I know the machine that molds them was veryexpensive to create. I don't know if lengthening the tube is feasible or would require more re- working then he can justify. I will try to contact him and ask the question and report back to the list. Racks can be made for these tubes so that they stand alone. The other good feature is that varnish and poly does not stick to the tube, and if the lid is eventually wrecked by varnish residue, a common mayonnaise jar lid is the same size and can be used as a replacement. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from doddd@monroe.army.mil Tue Sep 29 11:18:03 1998 (5.5.2232.9) Subject: RE: Dip Tube Idea Chris, Thank you for your comments. I am new guy who is just starting outie. gathering tools, books, tapers, supplies, and most of all wisdom. Myson should end up with some nice rods in about two years. Had my firstglass rod over 30 years ago. My folks home faces the Battenkill in NY and on a good I could cast into the river from the front yard. Later,Dave Dodd -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Dip Tube Idea The tube being referred to as an arrow shaft dipping tube is called the "Pro Dipper". It was created by Dave Doran of Archery Past in Bend, Oregon several years back and had been selling for about $10. To my knowledge they are only manufactured in a length of about 35", or the really short ones for crown dipping the arrows. These lengths don't work for fly rods very well. You can dip some configurations, but many are too long. I used this tube early on. The concept is good, but a longer tube is really needed for fly rods. I know the machine that molds them was veryexpensive to create. I don't know if lengthening the tube is feasible or would require more re- working then he can justify. I will try to contact him and ask the question and report back to the list. Racks can be made for these tubes so that they stand alone. The other good feature is that varnish and poly does not stick to the tube, and if the lid is eventually wrecked by varnish residue, a common mayonnaise jar lid is the same size and can be used as a replacement. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Tue Sep 29 11:59:07 1998 MAINE.maine.edu (IBMVM SMTP Level 310) via TCP with SMTP ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:57:55 EDT Subject: Re: Dial indicator base question #2 Tom, So if I understand you. With a Maurer block with a vee cut into it ofknown depth, say .128, you insert the indicator into the block and set thebezel to .128. That effectly "zeros" the dial gauge. If the gauge is thenplaced against a flat surface, and the dial reads something other thanzero, that indicates a flatten point (assuming all else is well, no dustinterfering, well alligned t-block etc.). Although I guess there is reallyno need to do the latter once you've set the bezel and pointer using thevee block. Correcto? Bob. At 07:52 AM 9/29/98 EDT, you wrote: In a message dated 9/29/98 3:16:26 AM, you wrote: lowest point of our inverted equilateral triangle?>> Yes, That is so. The point the other fellow was trying to make is thatwhenyou zero the indicator by pressing it against a flat surface, there isalmostalways an error. This is because the indicator point is not completelysharp.A rounding off of .002, for example would still feel like a sharp point, butyou are building in an error of +.002 in all your measurements, this willresult in a +.004 error in the finished rod. The only way to get anaccuratezero is to use a device that bears against the side of the indicator point,just as he sides of your forms will. I got a small block of steel fromGeorgeMaurer a while back. It has a 60* groove of known depth milled into it,andgives me the accurate zero. More recently, Jon Lintvet has made availablethesteel block with the accurate holes reamed into it, this does the samething adifferent way.An equally tricky problem exists in the measurement of finished strips.Ifyou put the strip in a caliper or micrometer you are going to bend overtheapex slightly, and again get an inaccurate reading. The only way aroundthisis to have a 60* groove of known depth in the anvil of the mike orcaliper, so>that the apex of the strip becomes irrelevant. This wholebusiness presentssome tricky problems of calibration, but adressing them is the only waytoapproach real accuracy. Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128 from FlyTyr@southshore.com Tue Sep 29 12:51:10 1998 natco.southshore.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA14173 for; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:52:08 -0500 Subject: Re: testing my server - ignore me. I thought I was the only one, not with a rod though. Got my oven allworking sowe can roast those road kills. Even got a drain tube built.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Mike Biondo wrote: Brian - up the - Creek seez... :-) Test, test test. This is a friendly list Brian, we don't need all this "test"-iness!!! :-) ORN (Obligatory Rodmaking Note): Loosing much sleep trying to finish arod, which I am bound&determined to have ready by the SouthernRodmakersGathering. Final dip night before last, mounting the reel seat tonight. Ican see light at the end of the tunnel (sure hope it's not a train!) Mike - SRGB (Southern Rodmakers Gathering Bound) - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo from CALucker@aol.com Tue Sep 29 12:57:38 1998 Subject: Re: no more planing In a message dated 9/28/98 10:13:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, irish- george@worldnet.att.net writes: I am seriously overcharging. As to the rest, I was wondering whensomeonewould point this out. Most of the challenge is in making the stuff tomakethe rod with, actually making a rod is not all that difficult, if it was, Iwouldn't be able to do it. >> No, actually I sell the rods for $72 - $78 -- my cost for materials. Now Idon't do that very often, mind you. What I prefer to do is teach you tomakeyour own rod. That I will do for $1,072 or thereabouts. If you don't likeyour rod, I keep it and give you $1,000 back. Of the four times I have donethat, I have never had to refund.Chris Lucker from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Sep 29 13:36:01 1998 Subject: Re: Dial indicator base question #2 In a message dated 9/29/98 5:05:26 PM, you wrote: Yep - Now you've got it from mweber@icscorp.com Tue Sep 29 13:45:24 1998 mgmt-server1.icscorp.com(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ;Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:31:56 -0400 12:41:25 -0400 Subject: RE: What is a product worth? =_NextPart_000_01BDEBA6.78756560" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDEBA6.78756560 Jon, Marketing 101. The reason some graphite rods are selling for $500 to =$695 is precisely because "that is what the market is willing to pay". =Everyone would love to get the same rods for $300, and the manufacturers=would still make a good margin, but the end users are willing to pay =more. As long as the manufacturers can meet their volume requirements = as long as the market will continue to pay. As for the bamboo market pricing, the same methodology could and is =being used. Individual rodmakers can choose to follow this same model. =Selling rods from $1000 to $2000. There is nothing wrong with this =approach, as long as the makers can sell the volume of rods desired. =The value to price ratio has always been in the hands of the consumer. =If the end-users believe they are getting a good value for their money, =then they are! Another pricing methodology is, "the make it up in volume" approach. =Sell a large number of units based on the principal that the lower price =will create a higher demand. The offerer makes a smaller margin =percentage on each unit and expects to recoup the difference by sell a =higher volume of units. This approach obviously calls for the ability =to produce a higher volume. i.e, bevelers, milling machines, etc, to =increase the available volume for resale. So what is the small individual maker to do? I contest that they =should do whatever they believe will work for them. Very, very few of =us are in this to make a lot of money. If you believe your rods are =worth $2500, and someone will buy it, then most likely your rods are =worth it. On the other hand, take that same rod and sell it for $700, =and it is worth $700. Respectfully, Mike Weber -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: no more planing you. Might take a while, but I'll do it. :) Otherwise, I would put a $12 million price tag on my rods and startselling them for a profit rather than the $72 or so I currently charge =(ifI get around to charging). Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDEBA6.78756560 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------ =_NextPart_000_01BDEBA6.78756560-- from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Sep 29 13:57:09 1998 Subject: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey I hope this doesn't violate the non-commercial aspect of the list, but seeing as how this doesn't exist yet, and all I'm trying to do is see if anyone would be interested, I don't think it will. This isn't me considering the service,although I will probably be involved. It will be a knownand visible company. The company doesn't know I amsending these questions to the list, this is just my owncuriosity as to the interest of this. Of course I realize the answers depend a lot on how muchit would cost, figure it as typical guide rates with the extrastuff (condo rental, mule ride etc.) added on. 1. Would you be interested in a fishing trip in the mountainswhere all you had to do is show up at a place in OrangeCounty California, be driven to a camp site and you got tofish with a dozen different bamboo rods for two days? Foodis provided and prepared for you, and you sleep in a tent. 2. Would you be more interested if the trip involved stayingat a condo instead of a camp site? 3. Would you be more interested in a longer trip? Sayabout 5 days? 4. Would you like it better if it involved a couple hour long mule ride and you got to fish for California Golden Trout withthose same dozen bamboo rods? Thanks in advance for your answers. Darryl Hayashida from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Tue Sep 29 14:04:22 1998 PAA09068 Subject: RE: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey Do we keep the bamboo rods at the end of the trip? Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 1998 2:56 PM Subject: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey I hope this doesn't violate the non-commercial aspect of the list, but seeing as how this doesn't exist yet, and all I'm trying to do is see if anyone would be interested, I don't think it will. This isn't me considering theservice,although I will probably be involved. It will be a knownand visible company. The company doesn't know I amsending these questions to the list, this is just my owncuriosity as to the interest of this. Of course I realize the answers depend a lot on how muchit would cost, figure it as typical guide rates with theextrastuff (condo rental, mule ride etc.) added on. 1. Would you be interested in a fishing trip in themountainswhere all you had to do is show up at a place in OrangeCounty California, be driven to a camp site and you got tofish with a dozen different bamboo rods for two days? Foodis provided and prepared for you, and you sleep in a tent. 2. Would you be more interested if the trip involved stayingat a condo instead of a camp site? 3. Would you be more interested in a longer trip? Sayabout 5 days? 4. Would you like it better if it involved a couple hourlong mule ride and you got to fish for California Golden Troutwiththose same dozen bamboo rods? Thanks in advance for your answers. Darryl Hayashida from dhaftel@att.com Tue Sep 29 14:10:09 1998 sender att.com!dhaftel (att.com!dhaftel); Tue Sep 29 15:01 EDT 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) (5.5.1960.3) Subject: RE: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey No, but you do get to keep the mules! Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Hanzich, Al (MLPT) [SMTP:AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com]Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 1998 3:04 PM Subject: RE: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey Do we keep the bamboo rods at the end of the trip? Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 1998 2:56 PM Subject: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey I hope this doesn't violate the non-commercial aspect of the list, but seeing as how this doesn't exist yet, and all I'm trying to do is see if anyone would be interested, I don't think it will. This isn't me considering theservice,although I will probably be involved. It will be a knownand visible company. The company doesn't know I amsending these questions to the list, this is just my owncuriosity as to the interest of this. Of course I realize the answers depend a lot on how muchit would cost, figure it as typical guide rates with theextrastuff (condo rental, mule ride etc.) added on. 1. Would you be interested in a fishing trip in themountainswhere all you had to do is show up at a place in OrangeCounty California, be driven to a camp site and you got tofish with a dozen different bamboo rods for two days? Foodis provided and prepared for you, and you sleep in a tent. 2. Would you be more interested if the trip involved stayingat a condo instead of a camp site? 3. Would you be more interested in a longer trip? Sayabout 5 days? 4. Would you like it better if it involved a couple hourlong mule ride and you got to fish for California Golden Troutwiththose same dozen bamboo rods? Thanks in advance for your answers. Darryl Hayashida from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Tue Sep 29 14:19:47 1998 PAA13350 Subject: RE: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey I have enough mules, but not enough bamboo rods! Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 1998 3:10 PM Subject: RE: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey No, but you do get to keep the mules! Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Hanzich, Al (MLPT) [SMTP:AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com]Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 1998 3:04 PM Subject: RE: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey Do we keep the bamboo rods at the end of the trip? Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message-----From: SalarFly@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 1998 2:56 PM Subject: Bamboo Only Guide ServiceSurvey I hope this doesn't violate thenon-commercial aspect of the list, but seeing as how this doesn'texist yet, and all I'm trying to do is see if anyone wouldbe interested, I don't think it will. This isn't meconsidering theservice,although I will probably be involved. Itwill be a knownand visible company. The company doesn'tknow I amsending these questions to the list, this isjust my owncuriosity as to the interest of this. Of course I realize the answers depend a loton how muchit would cost, figure it as typical guiderates with theextrastuff (condo rental, mule ride etc.) addedon. 1. Would you be interested in a fishing tripin themountainswhere all you had to do is show up at aplace in OrangeCounty California, be driven to a camp siteand you got tofish with a dozen different bamboo rods fortwo days? Foodis provided and prepared for you, and yousleep in a tent. 2. Would you be more interested if the tripinvolved stayingat a condo instead of a camp site? 3. Would you be more interested in a longertrip? Sayabout 5 days? 4. Would you like it better if it involved acouple hourlong mule ride and you got to fish for CaliforniaGolden Troutwiththose same dozen bamboo rods? Thanks in advance for your answers. Darryl Hayashida from michael@wugate.wustl.edu Tue Sep 29 14:20:24 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey Darryl Hayashida writes... I hope this doesn't violate the non-commercial aspect of the list, but seeing as how this doesn't exist yet, and all I'm trying to do is see if anyone would be interested, I don't think it will. 1. Would you be interested in a fishing trip in the mountainswhere all you had to do is show up at a place in OrangeCounty California, be driven to a camp site and you got tofish with a dozen different bamboo rods for two days? Geez Darryl, all one has to do is to participate in one of the manyRodmakers Gatherings around to country. You not only get to cast manymorethan "a dozen bamboo rods" and fish the local the local waters. You getthe added benefit of meeting the makers, exchanging ideas, and gettingacquainted with some of the top rodmakers in the country. All...for a lotless than a "guide trip". Mike - did I mention I'm on my to SRG :-) BiondoSt. Louis, MO from Anachemrpo@aol.com Tue Sep 29 14:21:20 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey Darryl H. asks a few questions: from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Sep 29 14:37:31 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey In a message dated 9/29/98 12:29:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time,michael@wugate.wustl.edu writes: Geez Darryl, all one has to do is to participate in one of the manyRodmakers Gatherings around to country. This is true, but time constraints being what they are, sometimesthe rodmakers gatherings aren't possible. Besides we don'thave any of them locally around here. Darryl from Canerods@aol.com Tue Sep 29 14:40:05 1998 Subject: I'm Back from Yellowstone Hi all, Just back from "Jellystone" and haven't had time to catch up on the postsyet,but here a quick rundown on my vacation. We got several days of fishing in despite putting 1,000 miles on the rentalvan during the week that we were in the park area. Plus I had an interesting day drift boating through the Box Canyon sectionofthe Henry's Fork of the Snake River. The guide dug out his nice looking 9'Pezon et Michel (3/2) from behind his pickup truck's seat when he foundout Iliked cane rods. He wanted to know how to care for it and asked me what it was worth - hehadpicked it up a few years ago for a pittance. (sorry I didn't have a pen towrite down the shaft's details) He had been afraid to fish with it becauseofall the stories he had heard regarding "fragile" cane rods. The ferrulesneeded to be cleaned and a couple of very minor varnish chips were allthatwas wrong witht the rod. I told him that it would hold up quite well and promised to send him a copyofMichael Sinclair's article on cane rod care. I told him to use some"Mother'sMetal Polish" on the dirty ferrules to remove the oxidation, touch up thevarnish with some spar varnish and a "finger" brush. Then to apply somegoodwax - a la "Citrus Shield". I also promised to get back to him with an idea of the rod's value - toldhimthat he might be suprised at the latest prices for a P&M rod. I've looked atafew catalog's, but no listing popped into focus - anyone know of a recentselling price for a 9' footer? LAter, Don Burns PS - The guide got us into some very nice rainbows plus I got my 1st everwhitefish. (a 1 lb to 1.5 lb fish) I think that was the only fish that we gota picture of on that day because the guide was releasing the fish ASAP toprevent undo stress to them. But the biggest rainbow performed his ownLDRwithout the guide's help - a nice 21" fish that my B-in-L hooked up andlostafter the rainbow got the leader wrapped around a underwater rock. PPS - No unkind remarks about the whitefish please. from eestlow@srminc.com Tue Sep 29 14:43:05 1998 8625668E.006CFD92 ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:50:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey Gee, perhaps I missed the point of this when I responded to Darryloff-list. I was responding to the opportunity to fish, not specifically tofish with bamboo rods. After they were exalted in Chuck Yeager'sautobiography, I'd sure like to try some golden trout fishing. Sorry forany misunderstandings.- Ed from michael@wugate.wustl.edu Tue Sep 29 14:57:48 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey Darryl replies... This is true, but time constraints being what they are, sometimesthe rodmakers gatherings aren't possible. Besides we don'thave any of them locally around here. Sounds like you answered your own question Darryl. Perhaps FLYFISH@mightbe a better place to ask your question... Mike - survey-phobe - BiondoSt. Louis, MO from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Sep 29 15:18:34 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey In a message dated 9/29/98 12:50:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time,eestlow@srminc.com writes: Gee, perhaps I missed the point of this when I responded to Darryloff-list. I was responding to the opportunity to fish, not specifically tofish with bamboo rods. After they were exalted in Chuck Yeager'sautobiography, I'd sure like to try some golden trout fishing. Sorry forany misunderstandings.- The main point of the idea was being able to cast and actuallyfish with many kinds of bamboo rods, but getting people to theGolden Trout we thought would be a big draw also. A lot offly fisherpersons when they have to get to places like this tendto leave their bamboo rods behind - afraid of breaking them.The idea was to either provide the bamboo rod, thus not havingto risk theirs, or show them that it will not be a risk to use a canerod in this situation. Darryl from gwr@seanet.com Tue Sep 29 15:20:22 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA15624 for; Tue, Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001F_01BDEBAC.6C0DFC00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BDEBAC.6C0DFC00 boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0020_01BDEBAC.6C0DFC00" ------=_NextPart_001_0020_01BDEBAC.6C0DFC00 1. Would you be interested in a fishing trip in the mountainswhere all you had to do is show up at a place in OrangeCounty California, be driven to a camp site and you got tofish with a dozen different bamboo rods for two days? Food Perhaps, but these better be experienced guides running the trip & =doing the cooking. No one can promise fish, but a good guide can make = camp food (grease with liberal helpings of potatoes, eggs, flap jacks, =and other flavor enhancers). There must be plenty of food. I just did =a guided day trip with Bob Clouser. My father & I had a great day, lots =of smallies, and Bob is wonderful guide, but there was a distinct lack =of food. "All food, including lunch, provided" turned out to be a 4 pm =dinner with no snacks between breakfast and late afternoon. 2. Would you be more interested if the trip involved staying No. 3. Would you be more interested in a longer trip? Say mule ride and you got to fish for California Golden Trout with In response to the comment on rodmaker's gatherings. It's a valid =point. If you really want draw, these bamboo rods shouldn't be just =anyone's rods. Maybe one each by the guide and his assistant, but the =real draw, in my opinion, would be to have famous, classic rods by =Gillum, Garrison, Young, &c. And not just famous tapers as assembled by = I'm not your typical "guided trip" sort of client. I can hardly =afford them so I rarely take more than one per year. It's going to take = Might I suggest that a dozen rods in a few days would overwhelm most =guys who come to fish (as opposed to coming just to cast). It might be =wise to take a dozen famous rods to the local stream the morning the =trip begins, cast all twelve for a few hours, then have the client =select 3 or 4 favorites to take on the back country portion of the trip. = "favorite" all day. Best, Russ ------=_NextPart_001_0020_01BDEBAC.6C0DFC00 Would you be interested in a fishing trip in the mountainswhere = had to do is show up at a place in OrangeCounty California, be = a camp site and you got tofish with a dozen different bamboo = two days? Foodis provided and prepared for you, and you sleep in = but these better be experienced guides running the trip & doing = (grease with liberal helpings of potatoes, eggs, flap jacks, and = lots of smallies, and Bob is wonderful guide, but there was a = afternoon.2. Would you be more interested if the trip = No. Would you like it better if it involved a couple hour long mule = you got to fish for California Golden Trout withthose same dozen = real draw, in my opinion, would be to have famous, classic rods by = I suggest that a dozen rods in a few days would overwhelm most guys = a dozen famous rods to the local stream the morning the trip begins, = all twelve for a few hours, then have the client select 3 or 4 = suspect the client will be fishing with a single = day. Russ ------=_NextPart_001_0020_01BDEBAC.6C0DFC00-- ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BDEBAC.6C0DFC00 name="Golden Witch.vcf" filename="Golden Witch.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDN:Gooding;John;R.FN:Golden WitchORG:Golden WitchTITLE:Rod Maker &c.TEL;WORK;VOICE:(425) 787- 6599TEL;PAGER;VOICE:noneTEL;WORK;FAX:noneADR;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A;Lynnwood;WA;98037;USALABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A=3D0D=3D0ALynnwood, WA =98037=3D0D=3D0AUSAURL:noneURL:http://www.goldenwitch.comEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:gwr@seanet.comEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BDEBAC.6C0DFC00-- from dhaftel@att.com Tue Sep 29 15:26:19 1998 sender att.com!dhaftel (att.com!dhaftel); Tue Sep 29 16:17 EDT 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) (5.5.1960.3) Subject: RE: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey Darryl, Seriously, I think it looks like a niche market. It IS an attractive offer,but there might not be enough interest to "put it together". Just my opinion though... Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: SalarFly@aol.com [SMTP:SalarFly@aol.com]Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 1998 2:56 PM Subject: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey I hope this doesn't violate the non-commercial aspect of the list, but seeing as how this doesn't exist yet, and all I'm trying to do is see if anyone would be interested, I don't think it will. This isn't me considering the service,although I will probably be involved. It will be a knownand visible company. The company doesn't know I amsending these questions to the list, this is just my owncuriosity as to the interest of this. Of course I realize the answers depend a lot on how muchit would cost, figure it as typical guide rates with the extrastuff (condo rental, mule ride etc.) added on. 1. Would you be interested in a fishing trip in the mountainswhere all you had to do is show up at a place in OrangeCounty California, be driven to a camp site and you got tofish with a dozen different bamboo rods for two days? Foodis provided and prepared for you, and you sleep in a tent. 2. Would you be more interested if the trip involved stayingat a condo instead of a camp site? 3. Would you be more interested in a longer trip? Sayabout 5 days? 4. Would you like it better if it involved a couple hour long mule ride and you got to fish for California Golden Trout withthose same dozen bamboo rods? Thanks in advance for your answers. Darryl Hayashida from rmoon@ida.net Tue Sep 29 16:13:24 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey Darryl, I don't know about your state, but here in Idaho, our Local Guides andOufitters who pay good money for a license to guide fishing trips take avery dim view of non licensed guide trips. In fact if there is anyexchange of money, it is against the law, but even those guided tripswhere the guide claims to donate his services are looked upon with someskepticism. I have a friend who took a trip on the Henry"s Fork in hisown boat. He was however from out of state. Local guides found hiskeys and pitched them into the river, because they thought he wasguiding. My question-is this service to be free to all comers? If so count mein. If not I think that its crosses the line into the commercialismthat we have been decrying. Sorry Ralph Moon from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Tue Sep 29 16:19:06 1998 0400 Subject: Re[2]: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey I think that if I was considering a guide with several bamboo rods to use (as well as my own rods if I chose) vs. one with no rods or just graphite rods (I have enough of my own), and all else is equal, I would go for the guide with the bamboo. However, I am not sure I would choose the fishing trip in California. For similar money I would (perhaps due to ignorance of what California has to offer) choose elsewhere first (I am on the East coast so California would not be cheap), even if that guide has no bamboo (I could bring my own). So what I am saying is that the chance to try different bamboo rods does serve to differentiate the experience, and I would certainly enjoy it, but the destination would really be the deciding factor. Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: RE: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey Author: at Tcpgate Darryl, Seriously, I think it looks like a niche market. It IS an attractive offer,but there might not be enough interest to "put it together". Just my opinion though... Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: SalarFly@aol.com [SMTP:SalarFly@aol.com]Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 1998 2:56 PM Subject: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey I hope this doesn't violate the non-commercial aspect of the list, but seeing as how this doesn't exist yet, and all I'm trying to do is see if anyone would be interested, I don't think it will. This isn't me considering the service,although I will probably be involved. It will be a knownand visible company. The company doesn't know I amsending these questions to the list, this is just my owncuriosity as to the interest of this. Of course I realize the answers depend a lot on how muchit would cost, figure it as typical guide rates with the extrastuff (condo rental, mule ride etc.) added on. 1. Would you be interested in a fishing trip in the mountainswhere all you had to do is show up at a place in OrangeCounty California, be driven to a camp site and you got tofish with a dozen different bamboo rods for two days? Foodis provided and prepared for you, and you sleep in a tent. 2. Would you be more interested if the trip involved stayingat a condo instead of a camp site? 3. Would you be more interested in a longer trip? Sayabout 5 days? 4. Would you like it better if it involved a couple hour long mule ride and you got to fish for California Golden Trout withthose same dozen bamboo rods? Thanks in advance for your answers. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Sep 29 16:27:56 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey In a message dated 9/29/98 2:20:24 PM Pacific Daylight Time,rmoon@ida.netwrites: I don't know about your state, but here in Idaho, our Local Guides andOufitters who pay good money for a license to guide fishing trips take avery dim view of non licensed guide trips. In fact if there is anyexchange of money, it is against the law, but even those guided tripswhere the guide claims to donate his services are looked upon withsomeskepticism. I am so sorry, I specifically did not mention what company would beproviding the service because of that. My interest in the survey wasbecause I was asked if I wanted to go throught the guide licensing program, and I didn't think there would be enough interest in this to make it worth the time and effort. Again I am extremely sorry for violating the rules, and will refrain from posting anything even remotely involving money in the future. Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Sep 29 16:40:36 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey I included the wrong section of Ralphs post in my last message.It doesn't make much sense. This is what I meant to do.Darryl ********************************************** In a message dated 9/29/98 2:20:24 PM Pacific Daylight Time,rmoon@ida.netwrites: My question-is this service to be free to all comers? If so count mein. If not I think that its crosses the line into the commercialismthat we have been decrying. Sorry I am so sorry, I specifically did not mention what company would beproviding the service because of that. My interest in the survey wasbecause I was asked if I wanted to go throught the guide licensing program, and I didn't think there would be enough interest in this to make it worth the time and effort. Again I am extremely sorry for violating the rules, and will refrain from posting anything even remotely involving money in the future. Darryl from WDHCJL@aol.com Tue Sep 29 17:28:51 1998 Subject: Re: Reel plans I'd love a set of the reel plans. Thanks.Doug Hall1602 North Columbia PlaceDecatur, GA 30032 from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Tue Sep 29 17:36:49 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey Hi Ralph, I'm wondering if Darryl is out of line. Lets say I wanted to stock a newbrand of flyrods that I don't already. For argument's sake, lets sayDarryl's rods. Would it be wrong for me to ask the list their opinion ofthese rods? Is that over the line? Or do I just ask one of my customersto post the question to the list? My gut feeling is it's not over theline because I didn't offer anything for sale. I'll wait for the listowner to give the answer. Either way is fine by me. And no, I'm notstocking Darryl's rods or have inquired about stocking them from him. Regards, Bob Bob PerryFly Supplies On Tue, 29 Sep 1998, Ralph W Moon wrote: Darryl, I don't know about your state, but here in Idaho, our Local Guides andOufitters who pay good money for a license to guide fishing trips take avery dim view of non licensed guide trips. In fact if there is anyexchange of money, it is against the law, but even those guided tripswhere the guide claims to donate his services are looked upon with someskepticism. I have a friend who took a trip on the Henry"s Fork in hisown boat. He was however from out of state. Local guides found hiskeys and pitched them into the river, because they thought he wasguiding. My question-is this service to be free to all comers? If so count mein. If not I think that its crosses the line into the commercialismthat we have been decrying. Sorry Ralph Moon from gc.williams@MCIONE.com Tue Sep 29 17:39:04 1998 with ESMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 22:38:31 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey Darryl, I can't comment on your question because I don't know enough about what aclient might want or like. But what I will ask is WHY are you apologizing forumthat has become known as a viable source of credible suggestions,information, and recommendations. I don't think there's anything wrongwith your question and I would hope that we would not become sosensitiveabout commercialism that we might suppress questions like yours. JMO. Gary W. ----------From: SalarFly@aol.com Subject: Bamboo Only Guide Service SurveyDate: Tuesday, September 29, 1998 2:56 PM I hope this doesn't violate the non-commercial aspect of the list, but seeing as how this doesn't exist yet, and all I'm trying to do is see if anyone would be interested, I don't think it will. This isn't me considering the service,although I will probably be involved. It will be a knownand visible company. The company doesn't know I amsending these questions to the list, this is just my owncuriosity as to the interest of this. Of course I realize the answers depend a lot on how muchit would cost, figure it as typical guide rates with the extrastuff (condo rental, mule ride etc.) added on. 1. Would you be interested in a fishing trip in the mountainswhere all you had to do is show up at a place in OrangeCounty California, be driven to a camp site and you got tofish with a dozen different bamboo rods for two days? Foodis provided and prepared for you, and you sleep in a tent. 2. Would you be more interested if the trip involved stayingat a condo instead of a camp site? 3. Would you be more interested in a longer trip? Sayabout 5 days? 4. Would you like it better if it involved a couple hour long mule ride and you got to fish for California Golden Trout withthose same dozen bamboo rods? Thanks in advance for your answers. Darryl Hayashida from fiveside@net-gate.com Tue Sep 29 18:00:41 1998 ns1.net-gate.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA00402 for Subject: Re: Cecil Pierce To the ListI too consider myself a friend of Cecil. We fished for salmon together andI went lobsterin' with him, not an experience to be taken lightly. TheCatskill FF Center had a display of his work during our Catskill Gatheringof 97. I subsequently sent them more material samples of his internalgraphite-bonding process (he did that to lighten his cane rods due to hishandicap) plus photos of his life and times and his press clippings. CecilPierce was truly Maine's Man for All Seasons. Bill from CALucker@aol.com Tue Sep 29 18:14:57 1998 Subject: Re: Cecil Pierce In a message dated 9/29/98 4:06:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time,fiveside@net- gate.com writes: Bill, If I remember correctly, Cecil told me he made a lobster boat. I have one of Cecil's planes. I know that in the final years he reallyconcentrated on making planes over bamboo stuff. Out of curiosity, how many years was he retired from the firedepartment? Andhow old was he when he lost the fingers?Chris Lucker from dr_matro@cyberramp.net Tue Sep 29 18:40:51 1998 ESMTP idSAA11255 Subject: Re: Rodmakers Gatherings Hi, Darryl We didn't have a gathering here in the south until this coming weekend.I, for one, can't wait to meet all the new friends I plan to make.Fishing the Norfork River with another rod while someone fishesmine...sounds like a great time to me. I think it's high time you leftcoast boys had a gathering of your own. Ken from ragnarig@integrityol.com Tue Sep 29 18:49:06 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A41C57A0250; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:58:20 PDT Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey 1. Would you be interested in a fishing trip in the mountainswhere all you had to do is show up at a place in OrangeCounty California, be driven to a camp site and you got tofish with a dozen different bamboo rods for two days? Foodis provided and prepared for you, and you sleep in a tent. Yeah, that might be alright. Would I have to bring rods for everybody orjust pick out ten for myself and bring them? 2. Would you be more interested if the trip involved stayingat a condo instead of a camp site? I'm already in one. Would I have to leave? 3. Would you be more interested in a longer trip? Sayabout 5 days? Depends on availability of provisions. And food. 4. Would you like it better if it involved a couple hour longmule ride and you got to fish for California Golden Trout withthose same dozen bamboo rods? Are anaesthetics provided? Thanks in advance for your answers. Well, I thought it sounded kind of funny at first, but we're all the way tothe end and you haven't mentioned guides once. Count me in! Davy from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Sep 29 18:56:49 1998 via smap(4.1) Subject: RE: Rodmakers Gatherings This was posted a while back by Gary Lohkamp. It points out an existing annual gathering. I hope to attend this year. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu___________________________________________ I would like to thank everyone again that attended the meeting in 1997 lwas little surprised at the turn out, we had 60 makers in all. l had a greattime putting it together and look forward to this coming spring to doing itagain. The dates will be ironed out soon the location is in Troutdale Oregonjust east of Portland . The meeting will be sponsored by the NorthwestFlyfishers (home town trout club) lf any one has any ideas commentssuggestions please fell free to contact me. Thank you Gary Lohkamp 18531 se Tibbets ct Gresham Oregon 97030Glohkamp@aol.com from thramer@presys.com Tue Sep 29 19:41:35 1998 0000 Subject: Commercial Notes Hi Group,I have watched as some have apparently become offended with the morecommercial notes in the group. I for one greatly appreciate the noticeson what is available and where. Information is what is is in the eye ofthe beholder, please remember (you more veteran members) when youspentWEEKS searching for some stupid little item. One of the advantages tobuilding now rather than 10 15 yrs ago is that you can find the itemsyou need. My opinion might be different if the more commercial postswere in bad taste or a hard sell approach but they have most certainlynot been. In the main they have been to help another member with aproblem and the availability of a product has been offered as asolution. Anyone out there let me know if you are becoming evenmoderatly wealthy selling rods, supplies or equipment. Most of thecommercial listmembers sell what they do only due to constant requestsor demand. Much of the salient help and advice is often offered be thesepeople with no desire for any remuneration. It is unavoidable thatbuilders who have built 100+ rods will have a better perspective than abeginner with a dozen or two rods to their credit. I don't think that wewould want to see a return to the days when it would take a year or twoto accumulate the needed supplies,tools and materialsand another sixmonths of trashing cane slowly working out the problems, frankly I thinkthat would thin the ranks of new builders by quite a bit. With amoderate level of instruction a beginner can have a very good rod ontheir first try these days.I won't even get started on why the plans for a complex painfullydeveloped machine CANNOT be given away. After the sacrifices my wifehasmade to enable me to develop and build a beveler she would beappropriatly disturbed if I GAVE away such hard won information.A.J.Thramer from rmoon@ida.net Tue Sep 29 19:58:36 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey boundary="------------74C5A524EFAE5EEF731CAFC3" --------------74C5A524EFAE5EEF731CAFC3 Bob You wrote:I'm wondering if Darryl is out of line. Lets say I wanted tostock a newbrand of flyrods that I don't already. For argument's sake, lets sayDarryl's rods. Would it be wrong for me to ask the list their opinionofthese rods? Is that over the line? Or do I just ask one of mycustomersto post the question to the list? My gut feeling is it's not over theline because I didn't offer anything for sale. I'll wait for the listowner to give the answer. Either way is fine by me. And no, I'm notstocking Darryl's rods or have inquired about stocking them from him. In those terms, I would have to agree with you, that it is notcommercialism, but grant to me the possibility it is the first step of ajourney toward commercialism. My feeling however is that it is notreally a proper subject for the list. All of us have been deluged andbombarded by too much garbage that has no relevance. We have listenedto anger, contention and even smut. My opinion of the purpose of thislist is to provide a forum for the exchange of information about thebuilding and repair (even include the fishing and the collecting) ofbamboo rods. I am even willing to hear about the availability andsource of components and tools. I don't think it should be asubstitute for a chat room, or a vehicle for personal feuds, or a websuper mart. In its beginnings, it seems that the members weregentlemen, and the subject was bamboo rods. Now 90% of the postings arecompletely worthless. Darryl, I did not mean to appear to be flaming you. I am sorry if Ihave come on too strong about this issue. You have made a lot of goodpostings to the list, for which I am grateful: I just don't think thatthis particular issue is of any value to the members of the list. I don't want to be offensive, and I hope that everyone will accept myremarks as my own personal convictions, not as an attept to degrade ordemean anyone. Ralph Moon --------------74C5A524EFAE5EEF731CAFC3 Bob I wanted to stock a new lets say opinion of one of my customers over the the list And no, I'm notstocking Darryl's rods or have inquired about stocking them fromhim. In those terms, I would have to agree with you, that it is notcommercialism,but grant to me the possibility it is the first step of a journey toward is to provide a forum for the exchange of information about the buildingand repair (even include the fishing and the collecting) of bamboo components beginnings, it seems that the members were gentlemen, and the subjectwas think that this particular issue is of any value to the members of thelist. I don't want to be offensive, and I hope that everyone will accept myremarks as my own personal convictions, not as an attept to degrade ordemean anyone. Ralph Moon --------------74C5A524EFAE5EEF731CAFC3-- from lblan@provide.net Tue Sep 29 21:07:41 1998 Subject: RE: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey I've ground my teeth while reading the recent threads, but have kept myfingers off the keyboard. I have to respond to this post though.... Ralph, a breath of fresh air. Thanks! Ralph W Moon Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey In those terms, I would have to agree with you, that it is notcommercialism, but grant to me the possibility it is the first step of ajourney toward commercialism. My feeling however is that it is not reallyaproper subject for the list. All of us have been deluged and bombarded bytoo much garbage that has no relevance. We have listened to anger,contention and even smut. My opinion of the purpose of this list is toprovide a forum for the exchange of information about the building andrepair (even include the fishing and the collecting) of bamboo rods. I ameven willing to hear about the availability and source of components andtools. I don't think it should be a substitute for a chat room, or avehicle for personal feuds, or a web super mart. In its beginnings, itseems that the members were gentlemen, and the subject was bamboorods. Now90% of the postings are completely worthless.Darryl, I did not mean to appear to be flaming you. I am sorry if I havecome on too strong about this issue. You have made a lot of good postingsto the list, for which I am grateful: I just don't think that thisparticular issue is of any value to the members of the list.I don't want to be offensive, and I hope that everyone will accept myremarks as my own personal convictions, not as an attept to degrade ordemean anyone.Ralph Moon from teekay35@interlynx.net Tue Sep 29 21:54:57 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey I don't think that this kind of blantant advertising should be on thislist!!! ----------From: SalarFly@aol.com Subject: Bamboo Only Guide Service SurveyDate: Tuesday, September 29, 1998 2:56 PM I hope this doesn't violate the non-commercial aspect of the list, but seeing as how this doesn't exist yet, and all I'm trying to do is see if anyone would be interested, I don't think it will. This isn't me considering the service,although I will probably be involved. It will be a knownand visible company. The company doesn't know I amsending these questions to the list, this is just my owncuriosity as to the interest of this. Of course I realize the answers depend a lot on how muchit would cost, figure it as typical guide rates with the extrastuff (condo rental, mule ride etc.) added on. 1. Would you be interested in a fishing trip in the mountainswhere all you had to do is show up at a place in OrangeCounty California, be driven to a camp site and you got tofish with a dozen different bamboo rods for two days? Foodis provided and prepared for you, and you sleep in a tent. 2. Would you be more interested if the trip involved stayingat a condo instead of a camp site? 3. Would you be more interested in a longer trip? Sayabout 5 days? 4. Would you like it better if it involved a couple hour long mule ride and you got to fish for California Golden Trout withthose same dozen bamboo rods? Thanks in advance for your answers. Darryl Hayashida from rclarke@eou.edu Tue Sep 29 21:58:34 1998 Subject: Re: Rodmakers Gatherings Chris, I saw that too. Anyone have any dates on this yet? I hope to bethere as well, as long as it doesn't fall on Spring break (our busy timehere). Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL Subject: RE: Rodmakers GatheringsDate: Tuesday, September 29, 1998 4:55 PM This was posted a while back by Gary Lohkamp. It points out an existing annual gathering. I hope to attend this year. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu___________________________________________ I would like to thank everyone again that attended the meeting in1997 lwas little surprised at the turn out, we had 60 makers in all. l had a greattime putting it together and look forward to this coming spring to doingitagain. The dates will be ironed out soon the location is in Troutdale Oregonjust east of Portland . The meeting will be sponsored by the NorthwestFlyfishers (home town trout club) lf any one has any ideas commentssuggestions please fell free to contact me. Thank you Gary Lohkamp 18531 se Tibbets ct Gresham Oregon 97030Glohkamp@aol.com from mbleak@telepath.com Tue Sep 29 22:22:38 1998 telepath.com (8.9.0/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA23401 for Subject: Re: Commercial Notes I am a rank beginner who agrees with Mr. Thramer's remarks. Someone hasanumber of the small tools required for sale conviently at one site,someonehas a snake guide maker, or antique ferrules, or fine inserts, or bambooblanks, or used forms, or a 2nd edition to their good book or leads towheresomething can be found, etc. etc.. All this so called commercialinformationhas been of help and interest. Likewise the same people have contributedunselfishly time and again with sound rodmaking advise. To me this is awin win situation and greatly appreciated.Mike A.J.Thramer wrote: Hi Group,I have watched as some have apparently become offended with the morecommercial notes in the group. I for one greatly appreciate the noticeson what is available and where. Information is what is is in the eye ofthe beholder, months of trashing cane slowly working out the problems, frankly I thinkthat would thin the ranks of new builders by quite a bit. With amoderate level of instruction a beginner can have a very good rod ontheir first try these days. A.J.Thramer from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Tue Sep 29 23:45:31 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Dip Tube Idea They weren't created by the source you name "a few years ago". I boughtmine from another source around 1970 and they had been availablecommercially some (unknown to me) time before that. George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Dip Tube Idea The tube being referred to as an arrow shaft dipping tube is called the"Pro Dipper". It was created by Dave Doran of Archery Past in Bend,Oregonseveral years back and had been selling for about $10. To my knowledgethey are only manufactured in a length of about 35", or the really shortones for crown dipping the arrows. These lengths don't work for fly rodsvery well. You can dip some configurations, but many are too long. I usedthis tube early on. The concept is good, but a longer tube is reallyneeded for fly rods. I know the machine that molds them was veryexpensiveto create. I don't know if lengthening the tube is feasible or wouldrequire more re-working then he can justify. I will try to contact himandask the question and report back to the list. Racks can be made for thesetubes so that they stand alone. The other good feature is that varnish andpoly does not stick to the tube, and if the lid is eventually wrecked byvarnish residue, a common mayonnaise jar lid is the same size and can beused as a replacement. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from gwr@seanet.com Wed Sep 30 01:17:38 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA27291 for; Tue, Subject: For Ted Anderson boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0027_01BDEBFF.EFE6A560" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01BDEBFF.EFE6A560 boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0028_01BDEBFF.EFE6A560" ------=_NextPart_001_0028_01BDEBFF.EFE6A560 Ted Anderson, Please contact me off list. Your email address has permanent fatal =errors (sounds bad) & I've been unable to get in touch privately. Thanks, Russ Golden Witch Rods - "Tools For Natural Philosophy"Golden Witch Technologies, Inc. - "The Golden Age Is Now"gwr@seanet.comhttp://www.goldenwitch.com ------=_NextPart_001_0028_01BDEBFF.EFE6A560 Ted Anderson, privately. Thanks, Russ = "Tools For Natural Philosophy"Golden Witch ------=_NextPart_001_0028_01BDEBFF.EFE6A560-- ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01BDEBFF.EFE6A560 name="Golden Witch.vcf" filename="Golden Witch.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDN:Gooding;John;R.FN:Golden WitchORG:Golden WitchTITLE:Rod Maker &c.TEL;WORK;VOICE:(425) 787- 6599TEL;PAGER;VOICE:noneTEL;WORK;FAX:noneADR;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A;Lynnwood;WA;98037;USALABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A=3D0D=3D0ALynnwood, WA =98037=3D0D=3D0AUSAURL:noneURL:http://www.goldenwitch.comEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:gwr@seanet.comEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01BDEBFF.EFE6A560-- from rcurry@top.monad.net Wed Sep 30 05:09:14 1998 Subject: Re: Commercial Notes A.J.Thramer wrote:I won't even get started on why the plans for a complex painfullydeveloped machine CANNOT be given away. After the sacrifices my wifehasmade to enable me to develop and build a beveler she would beappropriatly disturbed if I GAVE away such hard won information.A.J.ThramerA.J.,Personally, as an engineer, I'm having too much fun developing myownconcept of a beveler. And I agree with you that no-one on the listshould feel obliged to share freely more than they wish. However, norecent posts have pressured anyone to give anything; tho' a few politeenquiries for information were made, and, I believe, misconstrued.Best regards,Reed from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed Sep 30 08:26:59 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2);Wed, 30Sep 1998 09:35:12 -0400 Subject: RE: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey In all honesty, the business concept doesn't appear very thought out. Particurlary in regards to price. The price of the rods themselves, insurance on rods was great point, personal insurance if you are taking clients on mule rides and hike out into the mountains. The overall concept of bringing people in contact with bamboo is great, however, learning how to competently cast one rod in a three days is enough, 12 is a whole different thing. Also, most of the people taking these trips aren't going to be pro's or competent. They probably will want to learn how to fly fish and know bamboo are the most expensive things around. IMHO.Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from hokkaido_flyfisher@yahoo.com Wed Sep 30 09:08:10 1998 Subject: Re: The Bamboo Fly Rod I heard directly from Mark Metcalf, the Editor, that their "outsourced" mailer had failed them.They are now "insourcing" ... I have been told that we will be receiving the issues shortly. Cheers, Christian ---irish-george wrote: No on both issues... George Bourke-----Original Message-----From: Tony Spezio Date: Saturday, September 19, 1998 5:16 PMSubject: The Bamboo Fly Rod Has anyone received their July, August and Sept. Oct. copies of thismagazine. I can't seem to get an answer to my messages left on theanswering machine nor "E" mail.Advise me on or off list.Thanks,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com ==Mr. Christian THALACKER Otaru University of CommerceMatsugae 2-6- 30 Otaru International Center #253047-0022 Hokkaido JAPAN Midori 3-5-21 Otaru 047 JAPANTel: (81) (134) 22-2671 Tel: (81) (134) 27-5261Fax: (81) (134) 27-5264 http://members.tripod.com/~Nijimasu/0.html_________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from doddd@monroe.army.mil Wed Sep 30 09:43:35 1998 (5.5.2232.9) Subject: RE: Rodmakers Gatherings Ken, Where in the south are you?? I'm new to the net (Monday this week).I'm in the Tidewater/Hampton Roads area of the "SOUTH". I'm originallyfromthe Adirondacks of New York. My folks live on the Battenkill. There are not many cane rod users here. Nearly everone here is saltwater oriented.(and they use chicken feathers on BIGGGG Hooks). My son is a glass flyrod fisherman and fly tier, his high school friend is refinishing and rebuilding bamboo rods, and I hope to start building rods with in the next year. ($$$).Are there South-Easters who meet to talk fly fishing? David W. Doddddodd@hrfn.net from hokkaido_flyfisher@yahoo.com Wed Sep 30 09:48:59 1998 Subject: Re: Cork handle cleaning problems Hey Terry, It's the grasshopper from Japan, back after his wild adventure out west ... ;-) Talked to Hoshihara-sensei (the rodbuilding teacher) and his thoughts on the cork handle is that, barring some sort of accident where you'd want to clean off the handle, a used cork handle is a bit like a fine patina ... Just 2 yen worth ;-) How was your summer ---"Terry L. Kirkpatrick" wrote: I can speak from experience, DON'T try to polish the cork without using something with a stiff backing. The soft material will quickly disappear andthe harder material will remain. I only made matters worse. Take your time, or you'll deform the cork. I've seen a real mess made of a cork handle. I haven't done this yet, but I'm still learning. Terry "Sunfish" Kirkpatrick ==Mr. Christian THALACKER Otaru University of CommerceMatsugae 2-6- 30 Otaru International Center #253047-0022 Hokkaido JAPAN Midori 3-5-21 Otaru 047 JAPANTel: (81) (134) 22-2671 Tel: (81) (134) 27-5261Fax: (81) (134) 27-5264 http://members.tripod.com/~Nijimasu/0.html_________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from doddd@monroe.army.mil Wed Sep 30 09:53:09 1998 (5.5.2232.9) Subject: RE: Commercial Notes All, As a new guy, I also look for wisdom and those "don't do what Idid"I would hate to make the same mistakes that are made by most "NEW GUY". I want to build my first rod ad see my son use it. Thanks for the "This maybe a help" hints to all. David W. Dodd -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Commercial Notes I am a rank beginner who agrees with Mr. Thramer's remarks. Someone hasanumber of the small tools required for sale conviently at one site,someonehas a snake guide maker, or antique ferrules, or fine inserts, or bambooblanks, or used forms, or a 2nd edition to their good book or leads towheresomething can be found, etc. etc.. All this so called commercialinformationhas been of help and interest. Likewise the same people have contributedunselfishly time and again with sound rodmaking advise. To me this is awin win situation and greatly appreciated.Mike A.J.Thramer wrote: Hi Group,I have watched as some have apparently become offended with the morecommercial notes in the group. I for one greatly appreciate the noticeson what is available and where. Information is what is is in the eye ofthe beholder, months of trashing cane slowly working out the problems, frankly I thinkthat would thin the ranks of new builders by quite a bit. With amoderate level of instruction a beginner can have a very good rod ontheir first try these days. A.J.Thramer from michael@wugate.wustl.edu Wed Sep 30 09:53:27 1998 Subject: List Commercialism - Last word...Please!!! Gentlemen... The guidelines seem simple: "If you stand to profit from what you are about to post, send it viaprivate email!" Some have pointed out that the commercial posts to date have not beenthatoffensive. Point well taken. Others have pointed out that the prevalenceof such posts is on the increase. Also a point well taken. Who willmonitor growth? Who will monitor offensiveness? The answer is easy: Letus keep the list a commerical-free zone. "If you stand to profit from what you are about to post, send it viaprivate email!" Sure, it would be a lot of work for someone selling something to send out500 individual emails when they could send just one email to the list.However, the list was never created, nor exists as a convenience forsomeone trying to sell something. Thank you, Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy from harry37@epix.net Wed Sep 30 10:45:34 1998 SMTP idLAA11270 Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey Ralph W Moon wrote: Darryl, I don't know about your state, but here in Idaho, our Local Guides andOufitters who pay good money for a license to guide fishing trips take avery dim view of non licensed guide trips. In fact if there is anyexchange of money, it is against the law, but even those guided tripswhere the guide claims to donate his services are looked upon with someskepticism. I have a friend who took a trip on the Henry"s Fork in hisown boat. He was however from out of state. Local guides found hiskeys and pitched them into the river, because they thought he wasguiding. My question-is this service to be free to all comers? If so count mein. If not I think that its crosses the line into the commercialismthat we have been decrying. Sorry Ralph Moon With all due respect, I disagree that this crosses the line intocommercialism- -Isn't a function of the list to explore ideas? I didn'tsee prices--Seems like a narrow niche market, though. Greg from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed Sep 30 12:40:45 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey Dont you guys think it should be up to the people on the list as to whatis allowed and what isn't. This seems kind of silly to jump the guy thatare doing us a favor and providing us with the tools to make flyrods anddefinitely not getting rich doing it. There hasn't been a stink madeabout some of the list members (Wayne etc..) that have tools theyprovide and I would guess that most of us are real glad they do. ----------From: Greg Kuntz[SMTP:harry37@epix.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 8:45 AM Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey Ralph W Moon wrote: Darryl, I don't know about your state, but here in Idaho, our Local GuidesandOufitters who pay good money for a license to guide fishing tripstake avery dim view of non licensed guide trips. In fact if there is anyexchange of money, it is against the law, but even those guidedtripswhere the guide claims to donate his services are looked upon withsomeskepticism. I have a friend who took a trip on the Henry"s Fork inhisown boat. He was however from out of state. Local guides found hiskeys and pitched them into the river, because they thought he wasguiding. My question-is this service to be free to all comers? If so countmein. If not I think that its crosses the line into the commercialismthat we have been decrying. Sorry Ralph Moon With all due respect, I disagree that this crosses the line intocommercialism- -Isn't a function of the list to explore ideas? Ididn'tsee prices--Seems like a narrow niche market, though. Greg from dr_matro@cyberramp.net Wed Sep 30 12:46:12 1998 ESMTP idMAA13830 Subject: Re: Rodmakers Gatherings Hi, Dave Dallas Texas, and I'm out the door in 30 minutes for Mountain Home AR. Ken from gjflyfsh@juno.com Wed Sep 30 13:16:07 1998 14:15:14 EDT Subject: Oven Shell Does anyone have a current phone # for Monarch Metal Manufacturing(whereWayne was getting the oven shell from) TIAjerry ___________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Sep 30 13:23:42 1998 via smap(4.1) Subject: Sanding Blanks A while back we discussed the pro's and con's of sanding old blanks to clean them up or alter the taper some. I found a relatively modern book, 1968 publish date, in the library. My memory fails me as usual, but I think it was titled the Fisherman's Companion and it was edited by Lee Wulff. I may be completely wrong on the title. Anyway, I found a sentence that indicated sanding the finished blank was routine in the early days in altering the taper and was even currently (as of 1968) being used by some mass producing companies of lesser quality, although the betterrodmakers had since gone to fine tuning the tapers and configurations of the rod to produce the action they wanted rather than using the sanding process. I don't remember reading or hearing prior to this that sanding to produce a taper was ever used as a standard method, but this sentence makes itsound as if it was the norm in the very early days. Is this consistent with what some of you with more historical knowledge know to be true, or was it a flippant statement made without any real basis since the book is a very general overview of the entire realm of fishing, and not specific tobamboo rod making. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Sep 30 13:35:51 1998 Subject: Re: Oven Shell Jerry, I took the dimensions in Wayne's book and had it built at a localsheet metal shop. Look for a place that does heating and air-conditioningand they should be able to create the shells for you. Mine were prettycheap. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Gerald N Johnson Subject: Oven ShellDate: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 11:12 AM Does anyone have a current phone # for Monarch Metal Manufacturing(whereWayne was getting the oven shell from) TIAjerry ___________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from gjflyfsh@juno.com Wed Sep 30 16:58:03 1998 17:54:23 EDT Subject: Re: Oven Shell RobertThanks, I did the same and the two locals gave me an estimate of betweeneighty and hundred twenty dollars. When Wayne posted the info on theshells it was forty dollars. (dec 96). Been that way with most of theequipment I've built I've had to do mail order. Locally the only placethat had a stanley 9 1/2 wanted fifty-five dollars last year (i ordered).Thanks againjerry ___________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Sep 30 17:31:00 1998 Subject: Re: Oven Shell Wow, that is awful! Mine cost about $15 all together, then about $90 forthe strip heater, and another 10 to 20 for other stuff. Maybe I got adeal. Rob ----------From: Gerald N Johnson Subject: Re: Oven ShellDate: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 2:51 PM RobertThanks, I did the same and the two locals gave me an estimate ofbetweeneighty and hundred twenty dollars. When Wayne posted the info on theshells it was forty dollars. (dec 96). Been that way with most of theequipment I've built I've had to do mail order. Locally the only placethat had a stanley 9 1/2 wanted fifty-five dollars last year (i ordered).Thanks againjerry ___________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from hokkaido_flyfisher@yahoo.com Wed Sep 30 17:46:23 1998 Subject: RE: Growing your own cane Patrick, It probably came from near Kyoto, or anywhere on the main Japanese island of Honshu. There is a lot of big cane there ... none of the Japanese professional rodmakers here use it though for cane rods. Pretty, but supposedly not strong enough. Christian ---"Coffey, Patrick W" wrote: Went to a sushi bar the other night and they served old saki in a bamboo jug that was just a 12-15" length of bamboo with a hole in the dam for the saki to come out. It was about 5-6" in diameter and had over a 1/4" of real good power fiber. I tried to find out where they got it but nobody really spoke English.==Mr. Christian THALACKER Otaru University of CommerceMatsugae 2-6-30 Otaru International Center #253047-0022 Hokkaido JAPAN Midori 3-5-21 Otaru 047 JAPANTel: (81) (134) 22-2671 Tel: (81) (134) 27-5261Fax: (81) (134) 27-5264 http://members.tripod.com/~Nijimasu/0.html_________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from swilson1@WHC.NET Wed Sep 30 17:53:08 1998 ; Subject: Re: Oven Shell If your local high school has a trade or vocational program, you canoften get many supplies for the cost of materials (or a donation). Ifthere is a heating/cooling program, you could probably have an ovenshell made. Other trades, such as machining and woodworking, could alsobe helpful (forms, dial indicator bases, dip tubes, etc.). As a sidebenefit, you supply real projects for the students--the advancedstudents get a break from the monotony of the "class assignment" (i.e.an aluminum meat tenderizer that cracks on impact, or something onlyslightly less useful). Community colleges often have similar programs. Scott Wilson from chris@artistree.com Wed Sep 30 18:56:55 1998 QAA16724 Subject: Hardy Rod ID Could the list's resident Hardy Rod Expert contact me off list? I'm inneed of help identifying a rod. Sorry I can't remember who this is but Ithought they resided down under?--Thanks, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from WDHCJL@aol.com Wed Sep 30 19:53:25 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey This is the rodmakers list. Not a survey forum, not a commercial adplacementservice, not a guide service list serve, not a "talley" site to check outcommercial "thought" for store stocking, plain and simple RODMAKERSLISTSERVE.If you need to place advertising, do surveys etc., go to the appropriatesites. Doug "thinking that being a member of this list-serve is a waste" Hall from WDHCJL@aol.com Wed Sep 30 19:57:49 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey In a message dated 98-09-30 11:51:58 EDT, you write: Yes but this is a rodmaking site not a site to explore guiding!!! from WDHCJL@aol.com Wed Sep 30 20:01:16 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey In a message dated 98-09-30 13:42:31 EDT, you write: I challange you to find a post where Wayne has offered anything for sale oreven mentioned a class date for his courses. We are talking about peopleusing the list for purposes other that those that created the site. Thereareproper places to sell, hype etc. this site is here for specific reasonsselling is not among them.Doug "getting real tired of this" Hall from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Wed Sep 30 20:19:54 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey On Wed, 30 Sep 1998 WDHCJL@aol.com wrote: This is the rodmakers list. Not a survey forum, not a commercial adplacementservice, not a guide service list serve, not a "talley" site to check outcommercial "thought" for store stocking, plain and simple RODMAKERSLISTSERVE.If you need to place advertising, do surveys etc., go to the appropriatesites. Doug "thinking that being a member of this list-serve is a waste" Hall What that new cyberspace saying? Better to be thought clueless than to post something that removes alldoubt! Thinking the list-serve is a waste? Haven't you read all the drip tubeposts, or the worlds best finish, or the polishing varnish posts? Andthat's just the last two weeks!!! Or do you know all there is to knowabout bamboo rod building? You can't be paying much attentionconsideringyou have online access to Mike Sinclair, AJ Thramer, Dave LeClair, RussGooding... My god man, do we have to dig up Hiram Lewis himself and gethim an email account? Do I have to spell it out for you??? Oops, lookslike I already did =:0 Regards, Bob Perry from ragnarig@integrityol.com Wed Sep 30 20:20:18 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id AB2167E015A; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 18:30:09 PDT Subject: cork I've been looking for some cork, for myself as well as a few others, andhave not found anybody who stocks rings with holes less than 1/4 inch dia.Cork Specialties in Miami says they can order 1/8 ' but it'll take months. Anybody got any ideas? Davy Riggs P. S. This is not for profit so don't even think about it :-) from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Sep 30 20:27:24 1998 Subject: Quad maker from New England area Anyone know a quad maker from New England area who was attendingFFinggatherings in S. Carolina in the 80's. He would have been in histhirties/forties or so by then. I have a freind who cast this gentleman'squad, but can't remember the name. I thought quad makers in New Englandwould be a fairly small group. Any ideas who it could have been? Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu p.s., I think we are all tired of the comm discussion, but please don'tbeat up on folks. Sir D is pretty cool. He even has a nuclear accelorator from gjflyfsh@juno.com Wed Sep 30 20:32:58 1998 21:31:57 EDT Subject: Re: Oven Shell ScottThanks I had forgot about those sources (although they been mentionedmany times) I'll check it out tomorrow.jerry ___________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from thramer@presys.com Wed Sep 30 20:33:10 1998 0000 Subject: Re: cork David wrote: I've been looking for some cork, for myself as well as a few others, andhave not found anybody who stocks rings with holes less than 1/4 inchdia.Cork Specialties in Miami says they can order 1/8 ' but it'll take months. Anybody got any ideas? Davy Riggs P. S. This is not for profit so don't even think about it :-)Hi David,On my 4'4" rods that are fitted with a cork skeleton seat I use asolid cork ring and bore a 1/8" hole with a piece of sharpened brasstubing. I think that solid rings are somewhat easier to come by. Imaintain a small supply as I only use one ring per rod, considering thenew rules however.........A.J.Thramer from RVenneri@aol.com Wed Sep 30 20:42:21 1998 Subject: starting out List members,I am just about to start to build my first rod. I have many questions. ButI want to take it one step at a time. I know of two places to get culms towork with. My first question in a list of many is: When I order and receivemy cane will it need to be dried further or can I go right to work and Howwill I know if it is ready or not I know this is a real basic question butanytime I asked it I never really got an answer. Thanks in advance. Bob VRobert Venneri's Custom Components21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882rvenneri@aol.com from jjohnso4@bellsouth.net Wed Sep 30 20:43:28 1998 VAA22711 Subject: Re: cork At 06:16 PM 9/30/98 -0700, Davy Riggs wrote: I've been looking for some cork, for myself as well as a few others, andhave not found anybody who stocks rings with holes less than 1/4 inchdia.Cork Specialties in Miami says they can order 1/8 ' but it'll take months. Anybody got any ideas? Hi Davy, Cabela's sells rings with 1/8" holes but they're not of the best quality.I ordered 25 when I was building my last rod and did have enoughacceptableones for a 13 ring handle. Cya,Johnny----------------------------------------------Johnny JohnsonLilburn, GA from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Sep 30 20:50:59 1998 Subject: Re: Quad maker from New England area My appologies, N. Carolina. Probabaly makes a difference for people fromeither state, but I spaced it. Rob ----------From: Robert Clarke Subject: Quad maker from New England areaDate: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 6:26 PM Anyone know a quad maker from New England area who was attendingFFinggatherings in S. Carolina in the 80's. He would have been in histhirties/forties or so by then. I have a freind who cast this gentleman'squad, but can't remember the name. I thought quad makers in NewEnglandwould be a fairly small group. Any ideas who it could have been? Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu p.s., I think we are all tired of the comm discussion, but please don'tbeat up on folks. Sir D is pretty cool. He even has a nuclearaccelorator from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Sep 30 21:13:34 1998 Thu, 1 Oct 1998 10:12:59 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: cork On Wed, 30 Sep 1998, David wrote: I've been looking for some cork, for myself as well as a few others, andhave not found anybody who stocks rings with holes less than 1/4 inchdia.Cork Specialties in Miami says they can order 1/8 ' but it'll take months. Anybody got any ideas? Davy Riggs P. S. This is not for profit so don't even think about it :-) Mike the list guy says this kind of thing is fine.Try ckishish@isd.net, the man to write to is Christ Kishish. I think this is C@D Trading, in any case I've been getting gear from them for a while and it's ok. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from sjstill@iquest.net Wed Sep 30 21:57:16 1998 (209.43.47.170) Subject: Re: Quad maker from New England area At 18:26 9/30/98 -0700, you wrote: Anyone know a quad maker from New England area who was attendingFFinggatherings in S. Carolina in the 80's. He would have been in histhirties/forties or so by then. I have a freind who cast this gentleman'squad, but can't remember the name. I thought quad makers in New Englandwould be a fairly small group. Any ideas who it could have been? Gary Dabrowski? Brookside Rods. SteveSteve and Julie Stillabower, Indianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net from richjez@enteract.com Wed Sep 30 22:07:47 1998 0000 Subject: Need Info A while back I had spoken to a gentleman from Maine or thereabouts. Ibelievehis name is Len. He makes forms. If this sounds familiar, could someone give me his phone number. My blackholefiling system struck again. *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ /||/______/_||_________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > from michael@wugate.wustl.edu Wed Sep 30 22:10:17 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey I challange you to find a post where Wayne has offered anything for saleoreven mentioned a class date for his courses. We are talking about peopleusing the list for purposes other that those that created the site. Thereareproper places to sell, hype etc. this site is here for specific reasonsselling is not among them. Thanks Doug! I jumped on Coffey's ass about that comment also. I can'tbelieve some of these guys!!! I'm sure glad I will be taking off for SRG tomorrow, to get away from thisshit for a while! Sure wish you could make it also... Mike- from drinkr@voicenet.com Wed Sep 30 22:55:04 1998 0000 (207.103.128.91) Subject: RE: cork I contacted Expanko Cork Products a while back. I havent ordered yet butthey were able to supply "flower quality"cork without holes at all at afairly good price. rmckee@expanko.com or Expanko Cork Company1139 Phoenixville Pike-----Original Message----- West Chester PA 19380From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 9:17 PM Subject: cork I've been looking for some cork, for myself as well as a few others, andhave not found anybody who stocks rings with holes less than 1/4 inchdia.Cork Specialties in Miami says they can order 1/8 ' but it'll take months. Anybody got any ideas? Davy Riggs P. S. This is not for profit so don't even think about it :-) from jjohnso4@bellsouth.net Wed Sep 30 23:17:09 1998 AAA02675 Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey At 09:00 PM 9/30/98 EDT, Doug Hall wrote: I challange you to find a post where Wayne has offered anything for saleoreven mentioned a class date for his courses. We are talking about peopleusing the list for purposes other that those that created the site. Thereareproper places to sell, hype etc. this site is here for specific reasonsselling is not among them.Doug "getting real tired of this" Hall Hi Doug, I believe you have been a party to at least one example (or at least yourname was mentioned in it.) Please refer to the following 12/2/96message.Now, I know that Wayne's intention was/is honorable but I think it was asblatant as some of the current examples that you and others arecomplainingabout. Cya,Johnny Subject: Oven Shell Kit Info shellkit - they are available anytime(I have been providing them for years).Gordyat Monarch Metal Manufacturing (616 - 241 - 0412) is my source Hecharges me$40.00 per shell kit. Here is a list of what you get: 1) 4" x 8" - 59" open duct1) 6" x 10" - 60" open duct1) 4" x 8" end cap2) 6" x 10" end caps (1 end cap is cut w/ 4" x 8" opening 1" fold)2) 5' 'S') scrap duct board for insulation (as needed)Then I throw in 4' of high temperature wire To assemble the 'kit' you need a drill w 1/8" bit and some 1/8" x 1/4"pop rivets. If you need the other elements they cost as follows 1) 4" x 4" - 2 1/8" deep box ($2.00)1) Mica Strip heater ( Grand Technologies current price - $60?)1) 12" - 56" 'rat screen ($5.00)1) Robert Shaw thermostat 5320 - 175 ($40.00) Shipping is what UPS Charges me. I would love to make an assembled unit available (I used to do it ) butI just don't have the time to do that at present.The Idea of do it as a hands on project for Grayrock 97 was two fold -first was the shipping - second was that it could be assembled on the spot-third Doug Hall said that he would shoot some video on the assembly andmakeit available. ----------------------------------------------Johnny JohnsonLilburn, GA