from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Oct 1 00:37:17 1998 Subject: Re: cork Davy -I would ask why the smaller size is needed - 1/4" holed cork is a tradestandard and works great even on the smallest of rods - are your needssuchthat only the 1/8" will do??? from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Oct 1 00:37:22 1998 Subject: Re: Oven Shell Gordy at Monarch Metal has advised me that he doesn't wish to gleanorders for oven shells - he is my local source for them - and for the pastyear or so I have hid from those looking to get them - I wish that I had thetime to help all that asked - but in the past I saw that I was disappointingfolks with promises that took longer than expected to keep. My suggestionwould be to look in your local area for companies that fabricate ductworkused in residental or light commercial construction - I would suspectthatthey will get about double to triple of what I was providing shells for - from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Oct 1 00:37:35 1998 Subject: Re: Rodmakers Gatherings Dave -I saw your post addressed to Ken (Cole) - I have stepped into answer forhim knowing that he is in transit to the MT Home(Arkansas) area - I willbeleaving after I end this post as well - Ken is from the Dallas - Ft Wortharea- but he travels and fishes an area slightly smaller than the lower 48 -andhe is quite quoteable - my favorite "Manana doesn't mean tomorrow - Itjustmeans not today". I'll tell him you were asking about him when I see himthisafternoon. Wayne from rclarke@eou.edu Thu Oct 1 01:27:07 1998 Subject: Re: Oven Shell Wayne, what guage sheet metal? I honestly had my two two shells bultforme for around $15. Did not include the insulation, or the end cap, butpretty cheap still. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: WayneCatt@aol.com Subject: Re: Oven ShellDate: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 10:36 PM Gordy at Monarch Metal has advised me that he doesn't wish to gleanorders for oven shells - he is my local source for them - and for thepastyear or so I have hid from those looking to get them - I wish that I hadthetime to help all that asked - but in the past I saw that I wasdisappointingfolks with promises that took longer than expected to keep. Mysuggestionwould be to look in your local area for companies that fabricate ductworkused in residental or light commercial construction - I would suspectthatthey will get about double to triple of what I was providing shells for - from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Oct 1 01:52:13 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey As a information thing - as of late a few of us have tried to be morecautious of the comments and offerings - as illustrated in a few postingback- I have withdrawn from offering items - It seems odd that because ofthatmany are now paying far more for those items - it's a motive thing - I wastrying to help save money for folks - rather thatn looking for a profitcenter- Another example would be even more lately where I offered ferrules at40%below list price - passing them along at what ended up being below mycosts The question might be a tough one to answer - where does it cross theline from being a good thing to being a bad thing - a help or a hinderance. As innocent as the list and social group may appear there are conflicts-hasn't anyone wondered why after spending thousands of dollars andcountlesshours of time to get it going - why when 'The Best of the Planing Form'cameout that the person who started it was never mentioned anywhere. Or thatsomebody financially underwrote the Catskill gathering for a couple years-only to show up and get 'speared' in front of their daughter by the sameperson and the other author - who copied the wrong set of numbers out ofapersonal day runner. Or why folks can attend a get together with picnicsandsteak dinners and have it only cost $20????I'm sorry but the example illustrated was a bad one - I didn't help formthis list to profit - but rather to share and support - over the years youhave read all my writings - copied the code for the program I wrote - andlaidout how to conduct your own rod making classes - if there is greed in thatIsome how have missed it. One last thing - it has been blown down from the north that I'm here to'Hock' books and videos - many of you know because of trying - I DO NOTsellbooks and video direct - if you want to purchase them you need to contactaretail source - I think that If we all ask the question "Who will this benefit??" beforeyou post - if the answer is the group then press send - if only you thendelete Wayne from hhholland@erols.com Thu Oct 1 06:57:22 1998 Subject: Re: Need Info Rich,I think the man you're after is Lon Blauvelt. I've met him at local flyfishing shows, and he's a nice guy. He makes forms, gives rod buildinglessons and builds nice rods. The address I have for him is: 15 TownLanding Road, Falmouth, ME 04105, 207-781-5235. Hope this helps.Hank H. -----Original Message----- Subject: Need Info A while back I had spoken to a gentleman from Maine or thereabouts. Ibelievehis name is Len. He makes forms. If this sounds familiar, could someone give me his phone number. Myblackholefiling system struck again.*________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@ /||/______/_||_________________________________________||/\/ \ > > / \ > from dan_cooney@ibm.net Thu Oct 1 07:05:13 1998 out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA26612 for;Thu, 1 Oct 1998 12:05:10 GMT Subject: Re: Quad maker from New England area Robert Clarke wrote: My appologies, N. Carolina. Probabaly makes a difference for people fromeither state, but I spaced it. Rob ----------From: Robert Clarke Subject: Quad maker from New England areaDate: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 6:26 PM Anyone know a quad maker from New England area who was attendingFFinggatherings in S. Carolina in the 80's. He would have been in histhirties/forties or so by then. I have a freind who cast this gentleman'squad, but can't remember the name. I thought quad makers in NewEnglandwould be a fairly small group. Any ideas who it could have been? Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu Rob, I think that Per Brandin lived in New York in the early 80's, and mayhave attended the gatherings you mention. He is very well known for hisfour strip rods. He learned to make rods from Hoagy Carmichael andstill builds hex rods also. He wrote an article for The Bamboo Fly Rodmagazine, May/June issue. There is a picture of Per at the end of thearticle. This might help establish if it Per or not. Per now lives in California and shares a shop in El Cerrrito with MarioWojnicki who builds bamboo rods for Scott. Mario builds hex and pentas. The address of their shop is:10254 San Pablo AvenueEl Cerrito, CA 94530 Hope this helps. Dan Cooney from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Thu Oct 1 08:30:37 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey careful you will get Mike "internet rambo" panties in a knot. only inhis minds eye did he kick anyone in the ass. People complain about T.A.getting upset because someone disagrees with him, whats the differencehere. All I said either all can do it, not matter what the reason, or noone should do it> Everyone is aware that Wayne does this stuff as agiant favor to us and judging from the majority of the posts most peopleappreciate it, me included.--------- -From: Johnny Johnson[SMTP:jjohnso4@bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 9:15 PM Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey At 09:00 PM 9/30/98 EDT, Doug Hall wrote: I challange you to find a post where Wayne has offered anything forsale oreven mentioned a class date for his courses. We are talking aboutpeopleusing the list for purposes other that those that created the site.Thereareproper places to sell, hype etc. this site is here for specificreasonsselling is not among them.Doug "getting real tired of this" Hall Hi Doug, I believe you have been a party to at least one example (or at leastyourname was mentioned in it.) Please refer to the following 12/2/96message.Now, I know that Wayne's intention was/is honorable but I think it wasasblatant as some of the current examples that you and others arecomplainingabout. Cya,Johnny Return-Path: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduDate: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 18:48:24 -0500 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: WayneCatt@aol.com Subject: Oven Shell Kit InfoX-Listprocessor-Version: 7.1 -- ListProcessor by CREN shellkit - they are available anytime(I have been providing them foryears). Gordyat Monarch Metal Manufacturing (616 - 241 - 0412) is my source Hecharges me$40.00 per shell kit. Here is a list of what you get: 1) 4" x 8" - 59" open duct1) 6" x 10" - 60" open duct1) 4" x 8" end cap2) 6" x 10" end caps (1 end cap is cut w/ 4" x 8" opening 1"fold)2) 5' 'S') scrap duct board for insulation (as needed)Then I throw in 4' of high temperature wire To assemble the 'kit' you need a drill w 1/8" bit and some 1/8" x1/4"pop rivets. If you need the other elements they cost as follows 1) 4" x 4" - 2 1/8" deep box ($2.00)1) Mica Strip heater ( Grand Technologies current price - $60?)1) 12" - 56" 'rat screen ($5.00)1) Robert Shaw thermostat 5320 - 175 ($40.00) Shipping is what UPS Charges me. I would love to make an assembled unit available (I used to doit ) butI just don't have the time to do that at present.The Idea of do it as a hands on project for Grayrock 97 was twofold -first was the shipping - second was that it could be assembled on thespot -third Doug Hall said that he would shoot some video on the assemblyand makeit available. ----------------------------------------------Johnny JohnsonLilburn, GA from dickay@alltel.net Thu Oct 1 09:07:59 1998 JAA05747 Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey Darryl,I saw your inquiry as a question as to whether and idea would be feasibleor not. There have been an awful lot of us newbies asking the list torecommend a taper for a first rod of late. Some of us have never cast acane rod or have only cast one. We want that first rod to be somethingspecial for us. Without having tried several rods and finding somethingthat we would like to replicate, we don't know where to start taper wise. Such a type of trip might be a boon for those interested. I would love tobe at the Southern Rodmakers Gathering this weekend. However twoweeksbefore it was announced, I committed to help with a church retreat. I amhonoring that commitment. I am hoping to make Greyrock next spring as Ihave family in southwest Michigan. This will give me a chance to cast alot of rods. However I hope to have my first rod completed by that time. What I am saying is that I did not think your inquiry was out of line. Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Oct 1 09:30:09 1998 (modemcable72.174.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: Gatherings BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_PW+w6V71Av79v1yAG7481w)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_PW+w6V71Av79v1yAG7481w) BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_twWGkFddUMpk7X3mQ3gLeA)" --Boundary_(ID_twWGkFddUMpk7X3mQ3gLeA) I'm envious of all these southern gatherings and fishing trips many of youare are thinking of attending. What a great opportunity to learn and meetfellow rod makers. Are there any gatherings planned for the north east,saynorthern Vermont or northern New York? Signed, A Canadian very far from the American south. --Boundary_(ID_twWGkFddUMpk7X3mQ3gLeA) envious of all these southern gatherings and fishing trips many of you = thinking of attending. What a great opportunity to learn and meet fellow = makers. Are there any gatherings planned for the north east, say = Vermont or northern New York? Signed, Canadian very far from the American south. --Boundary_(ID_twWGkFddUMpk7X3mQ3gLeA)-- --Boundary_(ID_PW+w6V71Av79v1yAG7481w) mail).vcf" BEGIN:VCARDVERSION:2.1N:Nantel;Richard;;;FN:Richard Nantel (E-mail)ORG:Le groupe MENTOR;TITLE:TEL;WORK;VOICE:(514) 393- 3292TEL;HOME;VOICE:(514) 485-2287TEL;PAGER;VOICE:[1] (514) 111- 1111TEL;WORK;FAX:(514) 393-1483ADR;WORK:;;4374 Old Orchard Avenue;Monteal;Quebec;H4A 3B4;CanadaLABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:4374 Old Orchard =Avenue=3D0D=3D0AMonteal, Quebec H4A 3B4=3D0D=3D0ACanadaADR;HOME:;;4374 Old Orchard Avenue;Monteal;Quebec;H4A 3B4;CanadaLABEL;HOME;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:4374 Old Orchard =Avenue=3D0D=3D0AMonteal, Quebec H4A 3B4=3D0D=3D0ACanadaEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:richard.nantel@videotron.caREV:19980514T133343ZEND:VCARD --Boundary_(ID_PW+w6V71Av79v1yAG7481w)-- from dhaftel@att.com Thu Oct 1 10:10:55 1998 sender att.com!dhaftel (att.com!dhaftel); Thu Oct 1 10:06 CDT 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) (5.5.1960.3) Subject: RE: Gatherings KAA22850 Richard, There was a gathering in the Catskills this past September. While not inthe northern reaches of the state (NY), It was closer to Canada thanArkansas. I think they made the NY gathering an annual thing, butunfortunately you missed this year's go 'round. Maybe we'll see you nextyear??? Keep your eye on the list for details. Dennis - 'Joisey boy, also very far from the American South - Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Richard Nantel [SMTP:richard.nantel@videotron.ca]Sent: Thursday, October 01, 1998 10:13 AM Subject: Gatherings I'm envious of all these southern gatherings and fishing trips many ofyouare are thinking of attending. What a great opportunity to learn and meetfellow rod makers. Are there any gatherings planned for the north east,say northern Vermont or northern New York? Signed, A Canadian very far from the American south. from dickay@alltel.net Thu Oct 1 11:02:29 1998 LAA14132 Subject: Re: Gatherings Richard,There in was a (Fly)fishing show in Somerset N.J. early in the year. ChrisBogart had a "Blueridge" get together at his place last May and theCatskill Gathering was is September. Keep an eye on the list forupcomingshows. I believe that the "Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine" has a calender ofevents if it ever gets out again. July/August issue has not arrived yetand its October. I know the Mark has had his problems with this but wehave to hear everything second hand. Can't Mark get an E-Mail out to thevarious lists? Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net---------- Subject: Gatherings I'm envious of all these southern gatherings and fishing trips many of youare are thinking of attending. What a great opportunity to learn and meetfellow rod makers. Are there any gatherings planned for the north east,saynorthern Vermont or northern New York? Signed, A Canadian very far from the American south. from phillips@library.ucsf.edu Thu Oct 1 11:02:45 1998 Subject: Re: Quad maker from New England area At 08:04 AM 10/1/98 -0400, you wrote:From: Robert Clarke Subject: Quad maker from New England areaDate: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 6:26 PMRob, I think that Per Brandin lived in New York in the early 80's, and mayhave attended the gatherings you mention. He is very well known for hisfour strip rods. He learned to make rods from Hoagy Carmichael andstill builds hex rods also. He wrote an article for The Bamboo Fly Rodmagazine, May/June issue. There is a picture of Per at the end of thearticle. This might help establish if it Per or not. Per now lives in California and shares a shop in El Cerrrito with MarioWojnicki who builds bamboo rods for Scott. Mario builds hex and pentas. The address of their shop is:10254 San Pablo AvenueEl Cerrito, CA 94530 Per Brandin's ph. # (510) 527-4486 John H. Phillips III e-mail:phillips@library.ucsf.eduInterlibrary Loan Rm 202Health Sciences LibraryUniversity of California530 Parnassus AveSan Francisco, CA 94143-0840PH: (415) 476-8383FAX: (415) 476-7940 from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Oct 1 11:11:36 1998 via smap(4.1) Subject: "The Warrior Rod" Here is a taper for Davy and anyone else interested. Ogden Smith model "The Warrior Rod". It comes from London, England. A 4/5 wt. 8 1/2' two peice rod weighing in at about 4 1/2oz. Measurements were taken without varnish, so no deduction is necessary. 0" .0705" .08610" .09715" .11920" .12725" .14530" .15735" .17140" .18045" .18749" .195Ferrrule55" .20960" .21865" .23070" .234 (Interesting)75" .25180" .26585" .27690" .284Handle from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Thu Oct 1 11:35:54 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id LAA08736 for (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id LAA03486 for ; Thu, 1 Oct1998 11:35:52 Subject: Max Satoh's straightening method I want to thank Max Satoh for the tip straightening method he posted to this group a few months ago, using a clothes iron and a board. I'm sure that straightening is something that you get a "feel" for with time, but Max's method worked better for me than an alcohol lampor heat gun or clothes iron and planing form. I really felt I had control of the straightening process. I had a spot that twisted one way then back again, and I had given up on it until I tried Max's method. If you are struggling to straighten a rod tip, give his method a try.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from FlyTyr@southshore.com Thu Oct 1 15:45:06 1998 (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA04101 for ;Thu, 1 Oct1998 15:46:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Gatherings boundary="------------43FC49EE9F9873BC48280464" --------------43FC49EE9F9873BC48280464 Just got back from the gathering at Norfork. Cold, windy but the warmpeople there made it great. I could not stay to see all the programs,but met Mr. and Mrs. .Demarest. what great people. Got to cast a fewbamboo rods. Harry Boyd did a good job in getting it together.FlyTyr@southshore.com Richard Nantel wrote: I'm envious of all these southern gatherings and fishing trips manyof you are are thinking of attending. What a great opportunity tolearn and meet fellow rod makers. Are there any gatherings planned forthe north east, say northern Vermont or northern New York?Signed, ACanadian very far from the American south. --------------43FC49EE9F9873BC48280464 Just got back from the gathering at Norfork. Cold, windy but the warmpeoplethere made it great. I could not stay to see all the programs, but met FlyTyr@southshore.com Richard Nantel wrote: envious of all these southern gatherings and fishing trips many of youare are thinking of attending. What a great opportunity to learn and meetfellow rod makers. Are there any gatherings planned for the north east,say northern Vermont or northern New Canadian very far from the American --------------43FC49EE9F9873BC48280464-- from eestlow@srminc.com Thu Oct 1 16:28:05 1998 86256690.007506B0 ; Thu, 1 Oct 1998 16:18:14 -0500 Subject: test - ignore test 1,2,3,4 from chris@artistree.com Thu Oct 1 16:35:59 1998 OAA08198 Subject: Silicone Treated Cloth I was just looking at some Silicone-treated "gun sacks." The cloth notonly protects the firearm from dirt & scratches but the silicone wicksaway any moisture that may be present. Sounds like a great product forbamboo rod bags. Anyone every seen a source for this cloth? Sounds likethe cloth can be just about any material and they just treat it withsilicone in some way.--Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from anglport@con2.com Thu Oct 1 17:11:25 1998 Subject: Re: Silicone Treated Cloth Chris,I was offered a rodbag of that material. It was apparently made of somesortof---jersey, I think my wife calls it-- and the thing was so thick itwouldn't fit inside my aluminum tube! Whoever designed the one I gotshouldhave used lighter material. I swear the thing was so bulky you could breakatip just forcing it into the tube! I also question if you want that stuff(silicone) on your finish if you're EVER going to touch it up.Anybody gotanother opinion?Art At 02:44 PM 10/1/98 -0800, you wrote:I was just looking at some Silicone- treated "gun sacks." The cloth notonly protects the firearm from dirt & scratches but the silicone wicksaway any moisture that may be present. Sounds like a great product forbamboo rod bags. Anyone every seen a source for this cloth? Sounds likethe cloth can be just about any material and they just treat it withsilicone in some way.--Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from sjstill@iquest.net Thu Oct 1 17:14:27 1998 (209.43.49.146) Subject: Bamboo Fly Rod Mag - was gatherings Dick Furhman wrote: I know the Mark has had his problems with this but wehave to hear everything second hand. Can't Mark get an E-Mail out to thevarious lists? I think "Sir" Darryl has been sort of the go-between Mark and at least thislist. Darryl has kept us pretty well informed of the various problems. Ithink anything in it's first year is going to have some problems, be it amagazine or a bar or car mfg'r. My 0.02 SteveSteve and Julie Stillabower, Indianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net from jczimny@dol.net Thu Oct 1 17:45:41 1998 Subject: Re: Silicone Treated Cloth If you ever have to re-finish that rod, you'll not be able to do it.Nothing sticks to silicone including varnish. I will not allow any productcontaining silicone into my shop.John Zimny Chris Wohlford wrote: I was just looking at some Silicone-treated "gun sacks." The cloth notonly protects the firearm from dirt & scratches but the silicone wicksaway any moisture that may be present. Sounds like a great product forbamboo rod bags. Anyone every seen a source for this cloth? Sounds likethe cloth can be just about any material and they just treat it withsilicone in some way.--Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from gc.williams@MCIONE.com Thu Oct 1 17:49:18 1998 with ESMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 1 Oct 1998 22:48:30 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey I hate to even get involved in this again but I'd just like to add that interms of asking yourselfIf your going to profit from your question or inquiry to the list wouldn'tthat also include requesting a taper for a customer or client? I stillthink that Darryl's question was a legitimate one and if we couldn't ordidn't want to help him at the very least he could have been given somesuggestions on where to get help. JMO. Gary----------From: SalarFly@aol.com Subject: Bamboo Only Guide Service SurveyDate: Tuesday, September 29, 1998 2:56 PM I hope this doesn't violate the non-commercial aspect of the list, but seeing as how this doesn't exist yet, and all I'm trying to do is see if anyone would be interested, I don't think it will. This isn't me considering the service,although I will probably be involved. It will be a knownand visible company. The company doesn't know I amsending these questions to the list, this is just my owncuriosity as to the interest of this. Of course I realize the answers depend a lot on how muchit would cost, figure it as typical guide rates with the extrastuff (condo rental, mule ride etc.) added on. 1. Would you be interested in a fishing trip in the mountainswhere all you had to do is show up at a place in OrangeCounty California, be driven to a camp site and you got tofish with a dozen different bamboo rods for two days? Foodis provided and prepared for you, and you sleep in a tent. 2. Would you be more interested if the trip involved stayingat a condo instead of a camp site? 3. Would you be more interested in a longer trip? Sayabout 5 days? 4. Would you like it better if it involved a couple hour long mule ride and you got to fish for California Golden Trout withthose same dozen bamboo rods? Thanks in advance for your answers. Darryl Hayashida from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Oct 1 17:59:58 1998 Subject: Re: cork AJ / DavySolid work fine - the Dremel tool can be used to quite effectively tohollow out the cork to whatever diameter hole - good for fabricating thoserings for uplocks. Chris On Wed, 30 Sep 1998 18:40:05 -0700, A.J.Thramer wrote: David wrote: I've been looking for some cork, for myself as well as a few others, andhave not found anybody who stocks rings with holes less than 1/4 inchdia.Cork Specialties in Miami says they can order 1/8 ' but it'll takemonths. Anybody got any ideas? Davy Riggs P. S. This is not for profit so don't even think about it :-)Hi David,On my 4'4" rods that are fitted with a cork skeleton seat I use asolid cork ring and bore a 1/8" hole with a piece of sharpened brasstubing. I think that solid rings are somewhat easier to come by. Imaintain a small supply as I only use one ring per rod, considering thenew rules however.........A.J.Thramer from dmcfall@ODYSSEE.NET Thu Oct 1 18:15:19 1998 Subject: Re: Silicone Treated Cloth As far as I am concerned I don't want silicone anywhere near anything I amgoing to paint or varnish. A trace of silicone left on a finish and thenrefinished will end up suffering from fisheye, little craters on the finish.This may be avoided by adding fish eye preventer to your varnish. Siliconis very pervasive and may resist all efforts to be gotten rid of. On ounceof prevention is worth a gallon of fisheye preventer. Dave M At 06:33 PM 10/1/98 -0400, you wrote:Chris,I was offered a rodbag of that material. It was apparently made of somesortof---jersey, I think my wife calls it-- and the thing was so thick itwouldn't fit inside my aluminum tube! Whoever designed the one I gotshouldhave used lighter material. I swear the thing was so bulky you couldbreak atip just forcing it into the tube! I also question if you want that stuff(silicone) on your finish if you're EVER going to touch it up.Anybody gotanother opinion?Art At 02:44 PM 10/1/98 -0800, you wrote:I was just looking at some Silicone- treated "gun sacks." The cloth notonly protects the firearm from dirt & scratches but the silicone wicksaway any moisture that may be present. Sounds like a great product forbamboo rod bags. Anyone every seen a source for this cloth? Sounds likethe cloth can be just about any material and they just treat it withsilicone in some way.--Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from LECLAIR123@aol.com Thu Oct 1 18:32:06 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey I've been on this list for a while and enjoyed it. But, the way it's been going lately, it's not very enjoyable any more. I thinkthis advertising thing is getting out of hand. When someoneis looking for a particular tool or component, if I make it or know someone who does, I feel it's good for the list to tell theguy. Usually when I do, three other guys say, THANKS, I'vebeen looking for one of those to. And if you think I'm makinga lot of money selling my tools or components to the guys,think again. I'm deeper in debt every year, but I like to helpthe people on the list. If THIS is not what you want on thelist, then I'll stop. Dave LeClair P.S. I don't like the way Terry was talking on the list, butI agree that you shouldn't give away ALL your secrets. Youshould always keep something for yourself. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Oct 1 18:39:11 1998 Subject: Re: Need Info rich,His name is Lon Blauvelt.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Oct 1 18:49:08 1998 Subject: For Profit List,I think if someone is looking for an item and someone has that item tosellthe best approach would be to contact them off the list. It is too bad thatsome of us are worried that someone might make some money off an itemwhen weare all just trying to help each other. I don't believe there is anythingwrong with someone saying on the list "Hey I have that item for sale ifyouare interested ." I really don't think there has been any real attemp to advertise products onhere. I have sources for things people are interested in but I have eithertold the person looking for that item direct or just kept my mouth shutandlet them find it for themselves so as not to offend anyone with aposssibleadvertisement.Bret from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Thu Oct 1 18:50:34 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Thu,1Oct 1998 19:59:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey Man that sucks! Sending a message out on the list by mistake. Don'tworry...no body will hound your ass like "some of these guys." Thanks Doug! I jumped on Coffey's ass about that comment also. I can'tbelieve some of these guys!!! I'm sure glad I will be taking off for SRG tomorrow, to get away fromthisshit for a while! Sure wish you could make it also... Mike- Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Oct 1 19:01:05 1998 Subject: Re: Silicone Treated Cloth and Fisheye List,Years ago I worked in a body shop and we had so much trouble withrepaintswhen someone used a silicone wax it was ridiculous. We would wipe thecarsdown with a rag soaked in automotive paint thinner to eliminate theproblembut you had to make sure and dry it as you went as the silicone would besuspended in the thinner as it came off the old finish. Even with all theprecautions we took with the wiping, drying and adding fisheye removerwestill had at times fisheye in the finish. What ever you do avoid anythingwith silicone in it like the plague.Bret from harry37@epix.net Thu Oct 1 19:07:15 1998 UAA06834 Subject: Re: Silicone Treated Cloth McFall David wrote: As far as I am concerned I don't want silicone anywhere near anything Iamgoing to paint or varnish. A trace of silicone left on a finish and thenrefinished will end up suffering from fisheye, little craters on thefinish.This may be avoided by adding fish eye preventer to your varnish. Siliconis very pervasive and may resist all efforts to be gotten rid of. On ounceof prevention is worth a gallon of fisheye preventer. Dave M At 06:33 PM 10/1/98 -0400, you wrote:Chris,I was offered a rodbag of that material. It was apparently made of somesortof---jersey, I think my wife calls it-- and the thing was so thick itwouldn't fit inside my aluminum tube! Whoever designed the one I gotshouldhave used lighter material. I swear the thing was so bulky you couldbreak atip just forcing it into the tube! I also question if you want that stuff(silicone) on your finish if you're EVER going to touch it up.Anybody gotanother opinion?Art At 02:44 PM 10/1/98 -0800, you wrote:I was just looking at some Silicone- treated "gun sacks." The cloth notonly protects the firearm from dirt & scratches but the silicone wicksaway any moisture that may be present. Sounds like a great product forbamboo rod bags. Anyone every seen a source for this cloth? Soundslikethe cloth can be just about any material and they just treat it withsilicone in some way.--Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com Dave--- Please tell me more about fisheye preventer--never heard of it, but Icould have used some on previous projects--where can I find it? Thanks, Greg from gc.williams@MCIONE.com Thu Oct 1 19:32:27 1998 with ESMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 2 Oct 1998 00:31:54 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Southeastern Rodmakers Fall Homecoming 2000 This is an idea (the name is just something I pulled out of the air) I'vebeen contemplating for a few months and this seems as good a time as anytorun it by the list. We now have rod building conventions, gatherings, conclaves, meetings,etc.in the northwest,northeast, south, and southwest. It only seems fitting that we considerhaving one here in the southeast as well. Basically what I'm proposing is getting together here in the southeastsomewhere such as Gatlinburg, Knoxville, etc. during the fall leaf color(mid-October), with close proximity to the Great Smoky MountainsNationalPark, Cherokee National Forest and the Tennessee Valley Authority lakesandtailwaters, in the year 2000. Of course all the details aren't available that's why I'd like to get thelists comments and determine if there's enough interest among fellow rodbuilders here in the southeast to host such an event. Thanks. from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Thu Oct 1 19:48:42 1998 19:48:08 ix4.ix.netcom.comvia smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey It would seem of late that some people on this list have developed a verythin skin. Or is it that we are so infatuated with ourselves that we useany excuse to see ourselves in print? Maybe it's "Be a builder! But if youcan't build, teach! And if you can't teach, then criticize the guy who can!" I've been an amateur radio operator for forty years. I've always believedthat rude behavior including insults and snide remarks did not belong in acivilized conversation. The Federal Communications Commission enforcestherules governing the activities occurring on the "ham" bands. If you areunhappy with what is going on, you are free to contact them and make aprotest. I feel the same way about the lists I subscribe to. I have seen (read)nothing on this list that I consider offensive other than the rude behaviorof some of the list members complaining about the actions of othermembers.There is an effective method for handling objections. Email (off list)the list manager. He is the policeman. It's his job to decide if theemails are acceptable and what to do about it. Complaints aboutcommercialism or Terry's behavior soon get old when they are 70% of themail. There are a number of experienced rod builders on this list who make thedifference between this list being a useful and productive activity orsomething to quickly unsubscribe to. They provide the help that meanssuccess for novices like me. I don't appreciate seeing them harangued forcommercialism if they try and answer a question or offer some help. If Iwere in their shoes, I wouldn't hang around and be insulted. And if theydon't, then what's left is a second rate "chat room". How many of you finished that first rod without their help? Without theweb pages and the information from this list, I wouldn't even have tried.I don't have the time to spend 50 or 60 hours doing something that isprobably going to fail. There are just to many details that can be missedor go wrong if you "figure it out yourself." The FCC went through this years ago. First all commercialism was banned.Then reality finally set in. There is (has to be) some "commercialism" inall hobby activities. The FCC now agrees that offering an item for sale toanother ham is not breaking the law as long as it's offered in the "spiritof the hobby." It is of course illegal to use ham radio to hawk yourbusiness. I think the same thing applies to this list. I have seennothing that I feel violates the "spirit of the hobby." My request is this. If you do feel that an item or "survey" violates thespirit of this list, complain to the policeman; and do it off list.Otherwise just use your delete key. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from dmcfall@ODYSSEE.NET Thu Oct 1 20:03:24 1998 Subject: Re: Silicone Treated Cloth At 08:00 PM 10/1/98 -0400, you wrote: Dave--- Please tell me more about fisheye preventer--never heard of it, but Icould have used some on previous projects--where can I find it? Thanks, Greg The only place that used to have some was Lee Valley Tools in Ottawa. Theyalso deal in the USA as Veritas. Query them @customerservice@leevalley.com I have no interest in this company but have been satisfied customer. Ifthis info offends I apologize. Regards Dave M from jaquin@netsync.net Thu Oct 1 20:17:15 1998 quartz.netsync.net(8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA31480 for ;Thu, 1 Oct1998 21:17:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Need Info Rich Jezioro wrote: A while back I had spoken to a gentleman from Maine or thereabouts. Ibelievehis name is Len. He makes forms. If this sounds familiar, could someone give me his phone number. Myblack holefiling system struck again.*________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@ /||/______/_||_________________________________________||/\> / \ > > / \ >TRY LON BLAUVELT 207-781- 5235 from jaquin@netsync.net Thu Oct 1 20:36:41 1998 quartz.netsync.net(8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA00526 for ;Thu, 1 Oct1998 21:36:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Gatherings Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote: Richard,There in was a (Fly)fishing show in Somerset N.J. early in the year. ChrisBogart had a "Blueridge" get together at his place last May and theCatskill Gathering was is September. Keep an eye on the list forupcomingshows. I believe that the "Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine" has a calender ofevents if it ever gets out again. July/August issue has not arrived yetand its October. I know the Mark has had his problems with this but wehave to hear everything second hand. Can't Mark get an E-Mail out to thevarious lists? Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net----------From: Richard Nantel Subject: GatheringsDate: Thursday, October 01, 1998 9:12 AM I'm envious of all these southern gatherings and fishing trips many ofyouare are thinking of attending. What a great opportunity to learn and meetfellow rod makers. Are there any gatherings planned for the north east,saynorthern Vermont or northern New York? Signed, A Canadian very far from the American south.richard: there is a gathering planned on the Grand river in Ontarionext Memorial day weekend. I'm sure the list will be loaded with infoabout it next spring. from jaquin@netsync.net Thu Oct 1 20:40:00 1998 quartz.netsync.net(8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA00885 for ;Thu, 1 Oct1998 21:39:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Max Satoh's straightening method Frank Stetzer wrote: I want to thank Max Satoh for the tip straightening method he postedto this group a few months ago, using a clothes iron and a board. I'm sure that straightening is something that you get a "feel" forwith time, but Max's method worked better for me than an alcohol lampor heat gun or clothes iron and planing form. I really felt I hadcontrol of the straightening process. I had a spot that twisted oneway then back again, and I had given up on it until I tried Max's method. If you are struggling to straighten a rod tip, give his method a try.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899.where can I find the info on this straightening method? from chris@artistree.com Thu Oct 1 21:11:00 1998 TAA04566 Subject: Re: Silicone Treated Cloth He, He, He...Point well taken guys. Thanks:)--Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com McFall David wrote: As far as I am concerned I don't want silicone anywhere near anything Iamgoing to paint or varnish. A trace of silicone left on a finish and thenrefinished will end up suffering from fisheye, little craters on thefinish.This may be avoided by adding fish eye preventer to your varnish. Siliconis very pervasive and may resist all efforts to be gotten rid of. On ounceof prevention is worth a gallon of fisheye preventer. Dave M At 06:33 PM 10/1/98 -0400, you wrote:Chris,I was offered a rodbag of that material. It was apparently made of somesortof---jersey, I think my wife calls it-- and the thing was so thick itwouldn't fit inside my aluminum tube! Whoever designed the one I gotshouldhave used lighter material. I swear the thing was so bulky you couldbreak atip just forcing it into the tube! I also question if you want that stuff(silicone) on your finish if you're EVER going to touch it up.Anybody gotanother opinion?Art At 02:44 PM 10/1/98 -0800, you wrote:I was just looking at some Silicone- treated "gun sacks." The cloth notonly protects the firearm from dirt & scratches but the silicone wicksaway any moisture that may be present. Sounds like a great product forbamboo rod bags. Anyone every seen a source for this cloth? Soundslikethe cloth can be just about any material and they just treat it withsilicone in some way.--Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from WDHCJL@aol.com Thu Oct 1 21:27:10 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey In a message dated 98-10-01 10:14:21 EDT, you write: Then ask for advise on a taper. Many will respond. With this group youshouldn't need to pay a fee and go on a trip. Try asking...all free!doug from lblan@provide.net Thu Oct 1 21:31:33 1998 Subject: RE: Silicone Treated Cloth Egad! Try any automotive paint distributer... -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, October 01, 1998 9:04 PM Subject: Re: Silicone Treated Cloth At 08:00 PM 10/1/98 -0400, you wrote: Dave--- Please tell me more about fisheye preventer--never heard of it, but Icould have used some on previous projects--where can I find it? Thanks, Greg The only place that used to have some was Lee Valley Tools in Ottawa. Theyalso deal in the USA as Veritas. Query them @ customerservice@leevalley.com I have no interest in this company but have been satisfied customer. Ifthis info offends I apologize. Regards Dave M from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Oct 1 21:49:44 1998 (modemcable72.174.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: Glace cotton thread BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_gj9bIUeqFxukxAhPJ3ZFDg)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_gj9bIUeqFxukxAhPJ3ZFDg) BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_BlIImPl9/jXeZUd/U74jkw)" --Boundary_(ID_BlIImPl9/jXeZUd/U74jkw) What exactly is glace cotton thread? Can I get away with using regular100%cotton thread from a sewing shop in my binder? Richard --Boundary_(ID_BlIImPl9/jXeZUd/U74jkw) exactly is glace cotton thread? Can I get away with using regular 100% = thread from a sewing shop in my binder? Richard --Boundary_(ID_BlIImPl9/jXeZUd/U74jkw)-- --Boundary_(ID_gj9bIUeqFxukxAhPJ3ZFDg) mail).vcf" BEGIN:VCARDVERSION:2.1N:Nantel;Richard;;;FN:Richard Nantel (E-mail)ORG:Le groupe MENTOR;TITLE:TEL;WORK;VOICE:(514) 393- 3292TEL;HOME;VOICE:(514) 485-2287TEL;PAGER;VOICE:[1] (514) 111- 1111TEL;WORK;FAX:(514) 393-1483ADR;WORK:;;4374 Old Orchard Avenue;Monteal;Quebec;H4A 3B4;CanadaLABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:4374 Old Orchard =Avenue=3D0D=3D0AMonteal, Quebec H4A 3B4=3D0D=3D0ACanadaADR;HOME:;;4374 Old Orchard Avenue;Monteal;Quebec;H4A 3B4;CanadaLABEL;HOME;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:4374 Old Orchard =Avenue=3D0D=3D0AMonteal, Quebec H4A 3B4=3D0D=3D0ACanadaEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:richard.nantel@videotron.caREV:19980514T133343ZEND:VCARD --Boundary_(ID_gj9bIUeqFxukxAhPJ3ZFDg)-- from teekay35@interlynx.net Thu Oct 1 22:48:30 1998 Subject: Re: Gatherings Richard, the third "Grand Gathering" will be held in Fergus, Ontario, nextMay/99 (same weekend as the American Memorial Day weekend) Send meyouraddress and I'll add it to my mailing list for future info mailings. ---------- Subject: Gatherings I'm envious of all these southern gatherings and fishing trips many of youare are thinking of attending. What a great opportunity to learn and meetfellow rod makers. Are there any gatherings planned for the north east,saynorthern Vermont or northern New York? Signed, A Canadian very far from the American south. from GLohkamp@aol.com Fri Oct 2 01:23:47 1998 Subject: Re: Glace cotton thread Richard You can use many different kinds of thread to bind a rod section. l wentthru this 4 ply glance thread thing myself (couldn't find any ) . Heres whatl learned. 1st for gluing almost anything will be fine but the thinner thebetter don't want to have so much bulk on the section, that you wont beableto see if it is twisted or bent. l have used dacron backing on a few rodswhen nothing else was handy and at times kite string. 2nd be carefulhereDONT USE anything nylon for heat treating it can leave some burn marks onthesection try and find some cotton for this work. l guess the bottom linehereis don't get hung up on finding the exact item for each step of the rodwork,there are many ways of doing it.Whats important is finding the methodthatworks best for you with the materials you can find easily. Nothing isworsethan having to wait for some special item to show up in the mail when youcould be fishing that rod. Nothing wrong with a little empisizing Hope this helps Gary from sniderja@email.uc.edu Fri Oct 2 06:26:03 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey GAA01408 Dave, don't stop! You've been of great help to many of us_both on line andoff line. You'll get nothing but a big "thank you" from me. Jerry SniderAt 07:31 PM 10/1/98 EDT, you wrote: I've been on this list for a while and enjoyed it. But, the way it's been going lately, it's not very enjoyable any more. I thinkthis advertising thing is getting out of hand. When someoneis looking for a particular tool or component, if I make it or know someone who does, I feel it's good for the list to tell theguy. Usually when I do, three other guys say, THANKS, I'vebeen looking for one of those to. And if you think I'm makinga lot of money selling my tools or components to the guys,think again. I'm deeper in debt every year, but I like to helpthe people on the list. If THIS is not what you want on thelist, then I'll stop. Dave LeClair P.S. I don't like the way Terry was talking on the list, butI agree that you shouldn't give away ALL your secrets. Youshould always keep something for yourself. from doddd@monroe.army.mil Fri Oct 2 06:27:46 1998 (5.5.2232.9) Subject: RE: Gatherings Tony, Just read your note on the Norfolk gathering. I know that it was notthe Norfolk in Virginia. I have been on the net less than a week and don't know where your were. TheNorfolk I knowhas been in the 80's and very humid...no wind. Daveddodd@hrfn.net from doddd@monroe.army.mil Fri Oct 2 07:10:54 1998 (5.5.2232.9) Subject: RE: Southeastern Rodmakers Fall Homecoming 2000 GG Williams, Homecoming 2000 sounds good. I'm new guy (one week on the net)and would like to meet and talk rod building. 2000 gives lots of time to planand convince wife this IS going to be fun. I just lost 1/2 of my shop space, I had to put a car in HER side of the garage. Bummer !! I muststart to think of ways to conserve and stack in MY side. My truck looksgreat outside. Its all the plywood and boards covered with a big bluetarp that looks funny on the driveway. People think I have a funny shapedsports car under it.Keep going with the Southeastern Homecoming 2000 plan. I'm in fora penny or a pound. DaveDavid W. Doddddodd@hrfn.net from emiller257@dataflo.net Fri Oct 2 07:14:56 1998 wddataflo.dataflo.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA11729 for Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: I've been on this list for a while and enjoyed it. But, the wayit's been going lately, it's not very enjoyable any more. I thinkthis advertising thing is getting out of hand. When someoneis looking for a particular tool or component, if I make it orknow someone who does, I feel it's good for the list to tell theguy. Usually when I do, three other guys say, THANKS, I'vebeen looking for one of those to. And if you think I'm makinga lot of money selling my tools or components to the guys,think again. I'm deeper in debt every year, but I like to helpthe people on the list. If THIS is not what you want on thelist, then I'll stop. Dave LeClair P.S. I don't like the way Terry was talking on the list, butI agree that you shouldn't give away ALL your secrets. Youshould always keep something for yourself.Dave, dont stop listeningand dontstop helping. If some people are offended by the "survey" I believe they could just politely post their opinion and quit their crying. Sir D has added alot to the List since I started following it in Feb of 97. I think we should cut him some slack and stop the bitchin. The Bible says "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". Ed Miller from FlyTyr@southshore.com Fri Oct 2 07:16:53 1998 (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA19589 for ;Fri, 2 Oct1998 07:18:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Gatherings Dave,It is the gathering in Norfork Arkansas. I will not be attending today ortomorrow , I will be tying at the Southern Council Conclave in Mt. HomeArkansas. This is the first Gathering in this area, and the way it wasattendedit will not be the last. I gave a presentation on making tools by hand likemetal planing form , oven. fro, binder ect. Note it is Norfork, no L, theNorthFork of the White River.The world record 38 lb 8 oz Brown trout came from that river.Are you the Dave Dodd on the Flytie list ? I have only been on theRodmakerslist for less than three weeks.Good to hear from you.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Dodd, David wrote: Tony, Just read your note on the Norfolk gathering. I know that it was notthe Norfolk in Virginia.I have been on the net less than a week and don't know where your were. TheNorfolk I knowhas been in the 80's and very humid...no wind. Daveddodd@hrfn.net from arnold_jeff@hotmail.com Fri Oct 2 07:28:23 1998 Fri, 02 Oct 1998 05:27:47 PDT Dave, it would be a huge loss if you left the list. You and many of the others that point some of us in the right direction for tools, components, and other rod building supplies are a huge help for the new rod builders. This discussion on commercialism has been blown out of control. The way I read the very first message from Mike Biondo, was that he just wanted us to be more careful about our transactions taking place over the list. Someone accidentally, or not aware of the "policy", replied to a post of an available product. The message went to the list instead of being sent privately. I thought Mike was just reminding everyone to be more careful and nothing more. Now a bunch of great people have hurt feelings and are concerned about "helping" members of the list. So everyone just grab some bamboo and make some rods...... Jeff Arnold P.S. As for our northern buddy......just don't pay any attention to him, he'll go away. Dave wrote: I've been on this list for a while and enjoyed it. But, the way it's been going lately, it's not very enjoyable any more. I thinkthis advertising thing is getting out of hand. When someoneis looking for a particular tool or component, if I make it or know someone who does, I feel it's good for the list to tell theguy. Usually when I do, three other guys say, THANKS, I'vebeen looking for one of those to. And if you think I'm makinga lot of money selling my tools or components to the guys,think again. I'm deeper in debt every year, but I like to helpthe people on the list. If THIS is not what you want on thelist, then I'll stop. Dave LeClair P.S. I don't like the way Terry was talking on the list, butI agree that you shouldn't give away ALL your secrets. Youshould always keep something for yourself. ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from hhholland@erols.com Fri Oct 2 07:47:04 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey Dave,As a past (and future) customer of yours, let me say that what I have seenof your correspondence on the list has been perfectly within bounds! Youhave always replied in a helpful way. I have interpreted your posts asoffering needed assistance rather than self-promotion. Please keep it up!Hank H. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey I've been on this list for a while and enjoyed it. But, the wayit's been going lately, it's not very enjoyable any more. I thinkthis advertising thing is getting out of hand. When someoneis looking for a particular tool or component, if I make it orknow someone who does, I feel it's good for the list to tell theguy. Usually when I do, three other guys say, THANKS, I'vebeen looking for one of those to. And if you think I'm makinga lot of money selling my tools or components to the guys,think again. I'm deeper in debt every year, but I like to helpthe people on the list. If THIS is not what you want on thelist, then I'll stop. Dave LeClair P.S. I don't like the way Terry was talking on the list, butI agree that you shouldn't give away ALL your secrets. Youshould always keep something for yourself. from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Oct 2 07:51:59 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey In a message dated 10/1/98 11:39:04 PM, you wrote: I agree. Blatant advertising, price lists, etc, are one thing, normalconversations about where to get things are another. There are bound to begray areas where reasonable people disagree about what is or isn'tcommercialism. Maybe we could cut each other a bit of slack and and goback todiscussing rodbuilding? When someone like Wayne feels compelled todefend hismotivations, things have pretty clearly gone too far, IMHO. from doddd@monroe.army.mil Fri Oct 2 08:07:36 1998 (5.5.2232.9) Subject: RE: Gatherings Tony, Thanks for the return. I would like to have been there to see allof your demos. I will keep watch of the net to pick up on the "how to"points. This is good. Sorry for the reading error. My "reedin 'n writin"isn't to good, I'm from the north (Saratoga NY) originally, but the Army planted me here in Newport News, VA 23 years and I sorta liked it. Whengoback home to NY I go to my folks house. They have a house at the mouth ofthe Battenkill where it joins the Hudson River. Looking forward to the 2000 gathering,David W. Dodd from ragnarig@integrityol.com Fri Oct 2 08:45:57 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id AB6367701A4; Fri, 02 Oct 1998 06:55:47 PDT Subject: Re: cork Wayne Yes, It's just a little large for a couple of the rods I do. Along the lineof the Young "Midge". Davy-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: cork Davy -I would ask why the smaller size is needed - 1/4" holed cork is a tradestandard and works great even on the smallest of rods - are your needssuchthat only the 1/8" will do??? from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Fri Oct 2 09:10:05 1998 ; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 02:10:04 +1200 Subject: Re: Jeff'I agree totally , Dave you would be a great loss and your past help is muchappreciated . terry , ... well.... iank At 05:27 AM 2/10/98 PDT, you wrote:Dave, it would be a huge loss if you left the list. You and many of the others that point some of us in the right direction for tools, components, and other rod building supplies are a huge help for the new rod builders. This discussion on commercialism has been blown out of control. The way I read the very first message from Mike Biondo, was that he just wanted us to be more careful about our transactions taking place over the list. Someone accidentally, or not aware of the "policy", replied to a post of an available product. The message went to the list instead of being sent privately. I thought Mike was just reminding everyone to be more careful and nothing more. Now a bunch of great people have hurt feelings and are concerned about "helping" members of the list. So everyone just grab some bamboo and make some rods...... Jeff Arnold P.S. As for our northern buddy......just don't pay any attention to him, he'll go away. Dave wrote: I've been on this list for a while and enjoyed it. But, the way it's been going lately, it's not very enjoyable any more. I thinkthis advertising thing is getting out of hand. When someoneis looking for a particular tool or component, if I make it or know someone who does, I feel it's good for the list to tell theguy. Usually when I do, three other guys say, THANKS, I'vebeen looking for one of those to. And if you think I'm makinga lot of money selling my tools or components to the guys,think again. I'm deeper in debt every year, but I like to helpthe people on the list. If THIS is not what you want on thelist, then I'll stop. Dave LeClair P.S. I don't like the way Terry was talking on the list, butI agree that you shouldn't give away ALL your secrets. Youshould always keep something for yourself. ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Oct 2 09:19:16 1998 Fri, 2 Oct 1998 22:17:56 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey On Fri, 2 Oct 1998 TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 10/1/98 11:39:04 PM, you wrote: know someone who does, I feel it's good for the list to tell theguy.>> I agree. Blatant advertising, price lists, etc, are one thing, normalconversations about where to get things are another. There are bound tobegray areas where reasonable people disagree about what is or isn'tcommercialism. Maybe we could cut each other a bit of slack and and goback todiscussing rodbuilding? When someone like Wayne feels compelled todefend hismotivations, things have pretty clearly gone too far, IMHO. I wont take the liberty of posting a mesage between Mike the list guy and myself as Mike will prob see this and possibly post his reply to me to the list, but the gist of it was exactly as Tom says above. Dave and Wayne have been a hell of a lot of help and keep it up. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from maxs@geocities.co.jp Fri Oct 2 09:19:22 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA12918 for; Fri, 2 Oct 1998 23:19:07 +0900 (JST) Subject: [Fwd: Straightening the tip after glueing] A1B2BC12803A411D1D317219" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- A1B2BC12803A411D1D317219 Frank, Thank you for referring to my post. Jerry, The attached was the post.I am under construction of my web to have this subject in it.It will have descriptions and pictures in a couple of days. But Iwonder if the disk space assigned to me is enough. I will post to the effect when it is ready. Thanks, Max -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHomePage:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169/indexe.html-------------- A1B2BC12803A411D1D317219 Subject: Straightening the tip after glueing Hello list members, A topic for straightening twisted tip.I had difficulties to make a tip section straighten after glueing itusing Garrison's binder. Since tip is especially soft, the usage of Garrison binder with a rather heavier weight caused thetip be twistedwhile binding with glue. Since tip is thin enough, the efforts to correct the twist causedthe twisted portion to be more twisted easily toward opposite side and its shape became wavedlikezig-zag. Since my father was a tailor and I recalled my memory that he was pressing the clothes by iron tofinalize the surface of the jacket.Then, I pressed the zig-zag tip by electric iron with the highestheat setting over each flat of the twisted tip. It worked!Looking at the twisted portion carefully and ran the iron slowly overthe same flat trying to keep the same flat upward by the other hand (untwisting), the tip is straightenedperfectly. I applied the same thing on to the flat of butt, but it worked partly since it seems too thick foriron. The slow (longer) bend could not be straightened completely. Theportion had to be straightened hand or a leverage. The above is done after the binding thread, the dried gleu and thesurface of the enamel is filed out.I used a piece of straight wood (2 foot length) as an iron mat. Iron iseffective formid section too for 3 pieces. Iron works mainly on thin portion. Now I am pressing the planedsections by iron on the planing form in order to make each piece of sections be straight as much as possible before finalplaning and glueing. I hope this might help similar level of builder to me. Any comment and advice please, if there is more effective or easier wayespecially to straighten the butt section. Max Satohan Oriental builder --------------A1B2BC12803A411D1D317219-- from maxs@geocities.co.jp Fri Oct 2 11:43:24 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA22309 for; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 01:43:19 +0900 (JST) Subject: Straightening procedure after glue To who are interested, I put the descriptions and pictures of the subject in my web below. Please visit my home and remain your comments for it.I hope it will help you. thanks, Max-- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHomePage:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169/indexe.html from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Fri Oct 2 12:14:48 1998 MAINE.maine.edu (IBMVM SMTP Level 310) via TCP with SMTP ; Fri, 02 Oct 1998 13:13:36 EDT Subject: Re: Glace cotton thread Interesting question Richard. I believe glace simply means the thread ispolished, so it's not fuzzy. One could say this about our President, veryglace, or perhaps not. Or one could say this about a computer generatedrod taper, "too glace", or about someone's casting--"That's one glaceshadow cast." Personally, I've never met a cotton glacer, but I'd like to.--Bob. At 10:32 PM 10/1/98 -0400, you wrote: What exactly is glace cotton thread? Can I get away with using regular100%cotton thread from a sewing shop in my binder? Richard Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\Glacecot.htm" Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\Richard2.vcf" Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128 from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Oct 2 13:13:48 1998 (modemcable83.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Straightening procedure after glue Hey Max. Good job! The pictures and text are very clear. Good site. Richard PS. I've been studying aikido for more than three years and hope to travelto Japan one day to visit Hombu dojo. Do you know of it? Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: Straightening procedure after glue To who are interested, I put the descriptions and pictures of the subject in my web below.Please visit my home and remain your comments for it.I hope it will help you. thanks, Max--Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHomePage:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169/indexe.html from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Oct 2 13:13:48 1998 (modemcable83.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Glace cotton thread I'm think I'm beginning to undertand.... So, is the oposite of fuzzy logicglace logic? Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Glace cotton thread Interesting question Richard. I believe glace simply means the thread ispolished, so it's not fuzzy. One could say this about our President, veryglace, or perhaps not. Or one could say this about a computer generatedrod taper, "too glace", or about someone's casting--"That's one glaceshadow cast." Personally, I've never met a cotton glacer, but I'd like to.--Bob. At 10:32 PM 10/1/98 -0400, you wrote: What exactly is glace cotton thread? Can I get away with using regular100%cotton thread from a sewing shop in my binder? Richard Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\Glacecot.htm" Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\Richard2.vcf" Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill HallUniv. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581-3128 from fr.keulen@wxs.nl Fri Oct 2 13:40:47 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA1C88 Subject: Parabolic tapers Dear listmembers, I'm quite fond of parabolic tapers. I'm planning to build the Pezon et Micheltaper that I found on the Rodmakers site. Has anyone ever made it? Whatwas theresult like? It shouldn't be to weak a taper, some parabolics are aspowerfulas soggy pyjama trousers. Are there any other parabolic tapers availableon theRodmakers site for a #5 rod which you can recommend. Thanks in advance , Rens Oosthoek from thramer@presys.com Fri Oct 2 14:14:44 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Parabolic tapers F. Keulen wrote: Dear listmembers, I'm quite fond of parabolic tapers. I'm planning to build the Pezon etMicheltaper that I found on the Rodmakers site. Has anyone ever made it? Whatwas theresult like? It shouldn't be to weak a taper, some parabolics are aspowerfulas soggy pyjama trousers. Are there any other parabolic tapers availableon theRodmakers site for a #5 rod which you can recommend. Thanks in advance , Rens OosthoekThe Paul Young Para 15 is a bit easier to use and more unified.A.J.Thramer from chris@artistree.com Fri Oct 2 14:23:22 1998 MAA06964 Subject: Re: [Fwd: Straightening the tip after glueing] Max,I really liked your description on how to make Snake Guides & TipTopsout of, what we call "Paper Clips." Pretty neat! Best Regards,Chris --Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHomePage:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169/indexe.html from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Oct 2 15:07:14 1998 (modemcable83.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Straightening procedure after glue Max, I really like your very clever paper clip snake guides. Is rust aproblem or do they last? Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: Straightening procedure after glue To who are interested, I put the descriptions and pictures of the subject in my web below.Please visit my home and remain your comments for it.I hope it will help you. thanks, Max--Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHomePage:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169/indexe.html from ragnarig@integrityol.com Fri Oct 2 16:24:26 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A6A850E028C; Fri, 02 Oct 1998 14:33:28 PDT Subject: Re: "The Warrior Rod" Chris Thanks a lot! This is the first actual O.Smith taper I've got and it isinteresting. Nothing new under the sun is there? I wonder if he was a Golden State fan. Davy-----Original Message----- Subject: "The Warrior Rod" Here is a taper for Davy and anyone else interested. Ogden Smith model"The Warrior Rod". It comes from London, England. A 4/5 wt. 8 1/2' twopeice rod weighing in at about 4 1/2oz. Measurements were taken withoutvarnish, so no deduction is necessary. 0" .0705" .08610" .09715" .11920" .12725" .14530" .15735" .17140" .18045" .18749" .195Ferrrule55" .20960" .21865" .23070" .234 (Interesting)75" .25180" .26585" .27690" .284Handle from ragnarig@integrityol.com Fri Oct 2 16:47:47 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id AC2259B0248; Fri, 02 Oct 1998 14:56:50 PDT Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey I trust we all have enough good humor to take this the right way: How many list members does it take to change a lightbulb? 1 to change the lightbulb and to post the mailing list that the bulb hasbeen changed.14 to share similar experiences of changing lightbulbs and to explain howitcould have been done differently.7 to talk about the dangers of changing light bulbs27 to point out spelling/grammar errors of posts about changinglightbulbs53 to flame the spell checkers156 to write the list administrator complaining about the light bulbdiscussion being "off topic" and inappropriate.10 to post that this list is not about light bulbs, and to please take thise-mail exchange to a new alt.lightbulb newsgroup.111 to defend the posting on this list, saying that we all use lightbulbs,therefore the posts are relevant to this list.6 to debate which method of changing lightbulbs is superior, where to buythe best lightbulbs, what brand of lightbulbs work best for this technique;and what brands are faulty.27 to post URL's where one can see different examples of lightbulbs.14 to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly, and to post correctedURLs.33 to put together all the posts to date, then quote them including allheaders and footers and then add "me too"19 to quote the "me too"s to say "me three"12 to post the list that they are unsubscribing because they cannot handlethe lightbulb controversy. from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Oct 2 16:51:39 1998 (modemcable83.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: Snake guides BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_hc/gsYwPhAStO+BHxMj8+Q)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_hc/gsYwPhAStO+BHxMj8+Q) BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_5XL03z2pd79y3FLxyCaVaw)" --Boundary_(ID_5XL03z2pd79y3FLxyCaVaw) Max Satoh's web site has made me think I too could make my own snakeguides.(Why do I always think it's tougher to do than it really is.) My question isthis: apart from paper clips, what type and gauge of wire can I use to makesnake guides? Also, if you have a source, that would be most helpful. Many thanks Richard --Boundary_(ID_5XL03z2pd79y3FLxyCaVaw) Satoh's web site has made me think I too could make my own snake guides.= I always think it's tougher to do than it really is.) My question is = from paper clips, what type and gauge of wire can I use to make snake = Also, if you have a source, that would be most =helpful. thanksRichard --Boundary_(ID_5XL03z2pd79y3FLxyCaVaw)-- --Boundary_(ID_hc/gsYwPhAStO+BHxMj8+Q) mail).vcf" BEGIN:VCARDVERSION:2.1N:Nantel;Richard;;;FN:Richard Nantel (E-mail)ORG:Le groupe MENTOR;TITLE:TEL;WORK;VOICE:(514) 393- 3292TEL;HOME;VOICE:(514) 485-2287TEL;PAGER;VOICE:[1] (514) 111- 1111TEL;WORK;FAX:(514) 393-1483ADR;WORK:;;4374 Old Orchard Avenue;Monteal;Quebec;H4A 3B4;CanadaLABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:4374 Old Orchard =Avenue=3D0D=3D0AMonteal, Quebec H4A 3B4=3D0D=3D0ACanadaADR;HOME:;;4374 Old Orchard Avenue;Monteal;Quebec;H4A 3B4;CanadaLABEL;HOME;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:4374 Old Orchard =Avenue=3D0D=3D0AMonteal, Quebec H4A 3B4=3D0D=3D0ACanadaEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:richard.nantel@videotron.caREV:19980514T133343ZEND:VCARD --Boundary_(ID_hc/gsYwPhAStO+BHxMj8+Q)-- from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Oct 2 16:52:03 1998 Subject: Re: Cane rod test Terry:Just came up from the parking lot where I've been putting the new rod towork.What a sweet piece of work!Don't have a 5 DT right now, so I put a 5WF on it and it handled itbeautifully. Then I put a 6WF on it to kind of simulate the better loadingcharacteristics of the DT and the rod just came alive. It cast very wellwiththe 5WF, but I had not trouble putting 65' of flyline, w/o leader outsidethetiptop with the 6WF. A 5DT will do as well. Didn't need to work the rodhard.It had no trouble picking up 12-15' of line off the pavement and shootingit.Had a couple of those satisfying jerks of line off the reel as it shoteverything I had out and wanted more. Wow, I didn't believe bamboo couldhavesuch a "live" feel. I'm used to much slower and more sedate actions. Notthatsome of the bamboo I've thrown hasn't cast well, but this is a differentandmore modern feel w/o question. The rod doesn't feel out of balance andneed aheavy reel. With a Hardy Lightweight and the 5WF it balances about aninchahead of the keeper. I don't have a lighter reel than the Hardy and any ofmyother trout reels will bring the balance point right back to the grip.Rods looks like all business in the bright light of day.Very functional, very clean. Grip, as I said, is exactly suited to my handandI couldn't be more pleased with the rod.I'll get an International Postal Money Order for $650 US tomorrowmorning andget it off to you post haste. I appreciate you getting me the rod on timeandwill get you the balance as fast as the mail can move.Once again, the rod is superb and it will be on stream Monday. I'llprobablysee if it can throw a tiny popping bug tomorrow after I get you the MO. Afewbig bluegill and a bass or two just to get the wood used to fighting afish.Thanks,Patrick from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Oct 2 16:53:28 1998 Subject: Re: Cane rod test ote: TerryWent out later and put it through some more varied casting situations.Camethrough with flying colors.With a slight haul, put 75 and 80 feet of 6WF line out of the tiptop everytime and straightened the leader with no problem. Have never cast abamboo rodwith this kind of power and damping. And the rod isn't even 8' long. If Iwasin a more hospitable environment than a parking lot, w/o overhead wires,Ithink I could cast the whole line! Will let you know how it handles a fish,but so far I'm more than pleased. Whatever your cane processing does,keepdoing it. I like the subtle matte finish as well. You advise a coat of waxabout once a year? Natural carnauba paste wax?Anyway, won't go on and on, but the rod is first rate.Patrick from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Oct 2 16:55:40 1998 Subject: Rod Rage I find it frightening that so many have become completely dependant oncomputers and that they think that they contain all the answers. This isperhaps why I do not fit on the list too well.Most home computer users regularly copy software without any regard forintellectual property. Copying software is not regarded as stealing andon the internet all information is free. When a guy appears on theirscreen with something they want and he decides he does not want to berobbed he is attacked with great veracity.There are plenty of books and videos available that are for sale thatcan help you build a fair facsimile of a cane rod. If you are happy withyour creation then you have no need to look further. But, if like me,you were brought up with cane you will know that certain ingredients aremissing from the recipe and they will not be available by staring intoa computer screen!I have worked very hard developing a product that a flyfisherman willenjoy using and any success I achieve will be well deserved. All mytapers, equipment and processes are mine, developed by me. I am notgoing to let a bunch of less than dedicated guys make me feel guilty forbeing experienced.I was asked last week why do I make rods and I am going to send a coupleof emails I received this week from a customer. The guy is not anewcomer to cane, he has a collection of good classic production rodsand an expensive rod from a contemporary manufacturer that started theGlamrod culture that you all picked up so readily.I am not advertising and I am not interested in supplying list memberswith rods. All my rods are too plain looking with the emphases onperformance not cosmetics this is why I cannot understand why I wasattacked with such hatred. It is mail like this that makes it worthwhile herd were wise decisions. I have decided to delete my customers name andaddress for fear that the more testosteronlogged colonials will thinkthat attacking him is attacking me.I intend to sign off again and get on with building rods and anotherbeveller.TerryRemember, A few of us was building rods when most of the list was stillpissing their pants, and it does not matter how frustrated you become,you cannot hot house experience. from MasjC1@aol.com Fri Oct 2 16:56:10 1998 Subject: Re: For Profit On other lists I've been associated with there is no problem with theoccasional post of product information, especially in response to a query,aslong as prices are not provided. If you are only making someone aware thatasolution exists to a posted problem I don't see that as being commercialuse. Mark Cole from eestlow@srminc.com Fri Oct 2 16:59:05 1998 86256691.0077DB68 ; Fri, 2 Oct 1998 16:49:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Snake guides Boundary="0__=LK4muDXdwoXSk6LALvSGN8HyvgQBVpwR1S75TxrIMab4WNxXmGD74z2q" -- 0__=LK4muDXdwoXSk6LALvSGN8HyvgQBVpwR1S75TxrIMab4WNxXmGD74z2q Dave LeClair has something called the Snake Maker to make guides with. Ibelieve he also has wire. His e-address is LECLAIR123@aol.com E-mail him direct, he'll be happy to help. -Ed Richard Nantel on 10/02/98 04:34:47 PM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Snake guides Max Satoh's web site has made me think I too could make my own snakeguides.(Why do I always think it's tougher to do than it really is.) My questionisthis: apart from paper clips, what type and gauge of wire can I use to makesnake guides? Also, if you have a source, that would be most helpful. Many thanks Richard -- 0__=LK4muDXdwoXSk6LALvSGN8HyvgQBVpwR1S75TxrIMab4WNxXmGD74z2q name="att1.htm" 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 -- 0__=LK4muDXdwoXSk6LALvSGN8HyvgQBVpwR1S75TxrIMab4WNxXmGD74z2q name="Richard Nantel (E-mail).vcf" 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 -- 0__=LK4muDXdwoXSk6LALvSGN8HyvgQBVpwR1S75TxrIMab4WNxXmGD74z2q-- from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Fri Oct 2 17:35:30 1998 Subject: Re: Snake guides Well according to my copy of The Fly and Rod Room, Dave LeClair sells thewire and all the tools to make your own guides. (LECLAIR123@aol.com) Regards, BobBob PerryFly Suppliesflysupplies@yahoo.com On Fri, 2 Oct 1998, Richard Nantel wrote: Max Satoh's web site has made me think I too could make my own snakeguides.(Why do I always think it's tougher to do than it really is.) My questionisthis: apart from paper clips, what type and gauge of wire can I use tomakesnake guides? Also, if you have a source, that would be most helpful. Many thanks Richard from channer@hubwest.com Fri Oct 2 18:09:14 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AD76BBB00E4; Fri, 02 Oct 1998 17:10:46 MDT Subject: Re: Rod Rage At 05:56 PM 10/2/98 -0400, you wrote:I find it frightening that so many have become completely dependant oncomputers and that they think that they contain all the answers. This isperhaps why I do not fit on the list too well.Most home computer users regularly copy software without any regardforintellectual property. Copying software is not regarded as stealing andon the internet all information is free. When a guy appears on theirscreen with something they want and he decides he does not want to berobbed he is attacked with great veracity.There are plenty of books and videos available that are for sale thatcan help you build a fair facsimile of a cane rod. If you are happy withyour creation then you have no need to look further. But, if like me,you were brought up with cane you will know that certain ingredients aremissing from the recipe and they will not be available by staring intoa computer screen!I have worked very hard developing a product that a flyfisherman willenjoy using and any success I achieve will be well deserved. All mytapers, equipment and processes are mine, developed by me. I am notgoing to let a bunch of less than dedicated guys make me feel guilty forbeing experienced.I was asked last week why do I make rods and I am going to send a coupleof emails I received this week from a customer. The guy is not anewcomer to cane, he has a collection of good classic production rodsand an expensive rod from a contemporary manufacturer that started theGlamrod culture that you all picked up so readily.I am not advertising and I am not interested in supplying list memberswith rods. All my rods are too plain looking with the emphases onperformance not cosmetics this is why I cannot understand why I wasattacked with such hatred. It is mail like this that makes it worthwhile herd were wise decisions. I have decided to delete my customers nameandaddress for fear that the more testosteronlogged colonials will thinkthat attacking him is attacking me.I intend to sign off again and get on with building rods and anotherbeveller.TerryRemember, A few of us was building rods when most of the list was stillpissing their pants, and it does not matter how frustrated you become,you cannot hot house experience. Will everyone else please do us all a favor and let this and him go.John from channer@hubwest.com Fri Oct 2 18:10:05 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id ADA9BBD00E4; Fri, 02 Oct 1998 17:11:37 MDT Subject: Re: For Profit At 05:55 PM 10/2/98 EDT, you wrote:On other lists I've been associated with there is no problem with theoccasional post of product information, especially in response to a query,aslong as prices are not provided. If you are only making someone awarethat asolution exists to a posted problem I don't see that as being commercialuse. Mark Cole this subject,tooJohn from dpeaston@wzrd.com Fri Oct 2 19:22:50 1998 mail.wzrd.com(8.9.1/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA03084; Fri, 2 Oct 1998 20:17:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Parabolic tapers At 08:36 PM 10/2/98 +0200, F. Keulen wrote:Dear listmembers, I'm quite fond of parabolic tapers. I'm planning to build the Pezon etMicheltaper that I found on the Rodmakers site. Has anyone ever made it? Whatwas theresult like? It shouldn't be to weak a taper, some parabolics are aspowerfulas soggy pyjama trousers. Are there any other parabolic tapers availableon theRodmakers site for a #5 rod which you can recommend. Thanks in advance , Rens Oosthoek Parabolics on the Rodmaker's Archive: Payne 200 8 ft 4 wtCattanach 8053 8 ft 5 wtPaul Young Para-15 8 ft ?A.J. Thramer 8 ft 4 wtCattanach 7643 7 ft 6" #4Grainger Aristocrat 8 ft 6" #4-5 Each of these rods is quite different from the others, but, to my mind,their stress curves are all parabolic.You might characterize the Grainger as soggy pajama legs but you mightwetyour pajamas over the power of the Para-15!A number of people on the list have made the Para-15 taper and rave aboutit. I have the granger and find it to be a very friendly rod which doesn'tlet me down even when I get a bit sloppy casting. I expect that severalpeople on the list could provide comments on the tapers listed above. Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from maxs@geocities.co.jp Fri Oct 2 19:31:34 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA26572 for; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 09:31:30 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Straightening procedure after glue Richard Nantel wrote: Max, I really like your very clever paper clip snake guides. Is rust aproblem or do they last? Richard Richard, Paper clip itself is so produced to last longer even when salty sweatfingerstouche it. So I hope it takes rather longer until it rust. It dependson the material used for it. If you leave it for a long time, say a year or two, WITHOUT WIPING OFFwater drops, it may rust some day. I had looked at such a documentwhich has stained clip on it. The doc might have been stored in a box Paper clip is plated by some metal, I am not sure, I guess it might benickel. If so, it maylast until your ferrule is also rust. I experiment by hitting a clip tobe flat and leave it for 10 months after dipping into water. It remainsas it was, no rust yet. I recommend to wipe water off your rod when youplace it in rod case. Max -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHomePage:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169/indexe.html from bacon@idt.net Fri Oct 2 20:04:30 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey David wrote: I trust we all have enough good humor to take this the right way: How many list members does it take to change a lightbulb? 1 to change the lightbulb and to post the mailing list that the bulb hasbeen changed.14 to share similar experiences of changing lightbulbs and to explainhow itcould have been done differently.7 to talk about the dangers of changing light bulbs27 to point out spelling/grammar errors of posts about changinglightbulbs53 to flame the spell checkers156 to write the list administrator complaining about the light bulbdiscussion being "off topic" and inappropriate.10 to post that this list is not about light bulbs, and to please take thise-mail exchange to a new alt.lightbulb newsgroup.111 to defend the posting on this list, saying that we all use lightbulbs,therefore the posts are relevant to this list.6 to debate which method of changing lightbulbs is superior, where tobuythe best lightbulbs, what brand of lightbulbs work best for thistechnique;and what brands are faulty.27 to post URL's where one can see different examples of lightbulbs.14 to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly, and to post correctedURLs.33 to put together all the posts to date, then quote them including allheaders and footers and then add "me too"19 to quote the "me too"s to say "me three"12 to post the list that they are unsubscribing because they cannothandlethe lightbulb controversy.you forgot:and one woman, who is just looking for one class on bamboo rod building.you guys are so funny! from djfinch@sprintmail.com Fri Oct 2 20:29:27 1998 SAA16273 Subject: Re: Straightening procedure after glue Max Satoh wrote: To who are interested, I put the descriptions and pictures of the subject in my web below.Please visit my home and remain your comments for it.I hope it will help you. thanks, Max--Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpWOW ! what a great site Max ! thank you for shareing! such insight !Greg. from djfinch@sprintmail.com Fri Oct 2 20:32:01 1998 SAA17523 Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey That's about the sum of it huh ? thanks, it made me smile instead of myfrown !Greg. David wrote: I trust we all have enough good humor to take this the right way: How many list members does it take to change a lightbulb? 1 to change the lightbulb and to post the mailing list that the bulb hasbeen changed.14 to share similar experiences of changing lightbulbs and to explainhow itcould have been done differently.7 to talk about the dangers of changing light bulbs27 to point out spelling/grammar errors of posts about changinglightbulbs53 to flame the spell checkers156 to write the list administrator complaining about the light bulbdiscussion being "off topic" and inappropriate.10 to post that this list is not about light bulbs, and to please take thise-mail exchange to a new alt.lightbulb newsgroup.111 to defend the posting on this list, saying that we all use lightbulbs,therefore the posts are relevant to this list.6 to debate which method of changing lightbulbs is superior, where tobuythe best lightbulbs, what brand of lightbulbs work best for thistechnique;and what brands are faulty.27 to post URL's where one can see different examples of lightbulbs.14 to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly, and to post correctedURLs.33 to put together all the posts to date, then quote them including allheaders and footers and then add "me too"19 to quote the "me too"s to say "me three"12 to post the list that they are unsubscribing because they cannothandlethe lightbulb controversy. from djfinch@sprintmail.com Fri Oct 2 20:34:56 1998 SAA19036 Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey You go Jean ! will somebody show this lady how to build a rod !....Greg. Jean Conelli wrote: David wrote: I trust we all have enough good humor to take this the right way: How many list members does it take to change a lightbulb? 1 to change the lightbulb and to post the mailing list that the bulb hasbeen changed.14 to share similar experiences of changing lightbulbs and to explainhow itcould have been done differently.7 to talk about the dangers of changing light bulbs27 to point out spelling/grammar errors of posts about changinglightbulbs53 to flame the spell checkers156 to write the list administrator complaining about the light bulbdiscussion being "off topic" and inappropriate.10 to post that this list is not about light bulbs, and to please takethise-mail exchange to a new alt.lightbulb newsgroup.111 to defend the posting on this list, saying that we all uselightbulbs,therefore the posts are relevant to this list.6 to debate which method of changing lightbulbs is superior, where tobuythe best lightbulbs, what brand of lightbulbs work best for thistechnique;and what brands are faulty.27 to post URL's where one can see different examples of lightbulbs.14 to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly, and to post correctedURLs.33 to put together all the posts to date, then quote them including allheaders and footers and then add "me too"19 to quote the "me too"s to say "me three"12 to post the list that they are unsubscribing because they cannothandlethe lightbulb controversy.you forgot:and one woman, who is just looking for one class on bamboo rod building.you guys are so funny! from WDHCJL@aol.com Fri Oct 2 20:47:59 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey In a message dated 98-10-01 02:59:03 EDT, you write: form. A point that seems to be lost of late. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Oct 2 21:11:35 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Silicone Treated Cloth Greg Greg,Go to your local automotive paint supply store they will have this in stock.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Oct 2 21:19:38 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Rod Rage JOHN,AAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEENNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Bret from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Oct 2 21:34:37 1998 Sat, 3 Oct 1998 10:34:19 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Parabolic tapers On Fri, 2 Oct 1998, F. Keulen wrote: Dear listmembers, I'm quite fond of parabolic tapers. I'm planning to build the Pezon etMicheltaper that I found on the Rodmakers site. Has anyone ever made it? Whatwas theresult like? It shouldn't be to weak a taper, some parabolics are aspowerfulas soggy pyjama trousers. Are there any other parabolic tapers availableon theRodmakers site for a #5 rod which you can recommend. Thanks in advance , Rens Oosthoek Rens,I haven't made this rod but I've repaired a broken tip of one and the owner sent both tips so I could compare the result. I didn't like the action all that much to honest. It cast great up to around 20-30 feet but I never got the hang of it for longer casts but I didn't have it for all that long either.If you like paras try the PHY's, the Driggs is a 4-5 or the Perfectionist or that classic para 15. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Oct 2 21:37:44 1998 Sat, 3 Oct 1998 10:37:19 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Snake guides On Fri, 2 Oct 1998, Richard Nantel wrote: /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Oct 2 21:38:57 1998 Sat, 3 Oct 1998 10:38:33 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Snake guides On Fri, 2 Oct 1998, Richard Nantel wrote: I'm making snakes from music wire you can buy at hoby shops in around .28 thou. This work perfectly. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from maxs@geocities.co.jp Fri Oct 2 21:55:51 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA19188 for; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 11:55:47 +0900 (JST) Subject: Urushi Availability in U.S. or in Europe To who are interested in, Thank you for stepping in my web and leaving your nice foot prints, anda question. As there may be others who are interested in whether Urushi is availablein U.S. or in Europe,I called one of Urushi shops in Tokyo. They say they do not know, asfar as the shop I called,they are not exporting Urushi to any foreign country..(If there is a person who knows that Urushi tube is sold in US or inEurope, please post it.) They say, if a foreigner places an order via FAX, they can read Englishand can ship it. They say that English on the phone is NOT welcome. Payment by VISA cardis acceptable. Caution is needed that the shipping cost will go over the Urushi cost.According to my experience, it costed about US$ 112 to send a parcel ofless than 1 kiro grams via DHL express, including two tubes, polishingcompound and rubbing paper, to California.Urushi itself is not so expensive, one 40 gram tube cost about 8 or 10US$ and there are various kinds of Urushi. There is no special customclearance requirement to import. So if you are interested in getting Urushi from this shop, it had better ship them via vessel in lower cost.If you don't mind around 150 US$ to acquire Oriental varnish, try it viaDHL. I would recommend you to start with the following set. One tube canfinish about 5 rods. Write Japanese Urushi name for the shop when placing order via fax. 1. Kiji Urushi (Refined Raw Urushi finishes in clear brown color, 40grmas \800 J-yen)2. Jou Shu Ai (Clear Urushi finishes in clear color, 40 grams \1,300J-yen)3. Suri Urushi Paper (Rubbing paper 10 large sheets, \200 J- yen)4. Roiro Migakiko (Polishing compound, 50 grams, \1,330 J-yen) Shop Name: Hariyo Shikko Co. Ltd.Shop Owner: Kazuo MinouraAddress: 2-7- 11 Taito, Taito-ku, Tokyo 110 JapanTelephone: +81-3-3834-1521 (Do not call in English)Fax: +81-3-3834-1523 (I have no particular intention to advertise this shop.) Max -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHomePage:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169/indexe.html from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Oct 2 22:02:10 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey Thanks Jerry, I thought I was doing good by the list members. Dave LeClair from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Oct 2 22:09:57 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey Ed,You got that right. Sr. D has contributed plenty to this list. I agree with you. I take a fast look at every e-mail on The list. If I see something I'm not interested in, I just move On. I don't get upset, I just move on. Life is TOO short to let all this $@*&% get you upset. I myself, like the list The way it has always been, until recently. OK, now, let's move on. Dave LeClair from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Oct 2 22:13:31 1998 Subject: Re: Jeff,I think you are right. It started out small and blewup into something big. Things got way out of control. Lets just stop right were we are and start over again. Dave LeClair from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Oct 2 22:14:37 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey Thanks Hank, I appreciate your kind words. Dave LeClair from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Oct 2 22:19:50 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey Thanks a lot Tony, I appreciate it. I'm sure Wayne does, too. Dave L. from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Fri Oct 2 22:37:44 1998 22:37:34 ix5.ix.netcom.comvia smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Snake guides Hey Tony. Do you plate or treat the music wire in any way? The musicwirein this part of the world rusts easily. I was thinking of nickel platingusing the "Woods strike" but I don't know how well steel takes nickel. Itworks great on brass but I've not tried it with steel. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 10:38 AM 10/3/98 +0800, you wrote:On Fri, 2 Oct 1998, Richard Nantel wrote: I'm making snakes from music wire you can buy at hoby shops in around.28 thou. This work perfectly. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri Oct 2 22:37:45 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP Subject: Re: Snake guides boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0058_01BDEE45.3A8523C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01BDEE45.3A8523C0 I have one. It is a nice, simple, functional, well-made device. In =addition to getting the wire from Dave, you can also buy music wire =(piano wire) at most hobby shops...not stainless, so you'll have to blue =it or plate it (http://www.caswellplating.com -- for small plating and =anodizing kits and chemicals). George Bourke I don't know why Outlook Express thinks everything is a hyperlink!-----Original Message-----From: Ed Estlow Date: Friday, October 02, 1998 3:05 PMSubject: Re: Snake guides Dave LeClair has something called the Snake Maker to make guides =with. Ibelieve he also has wire. His e-address is LECLAIR123@aol.com E-mail him direct, he'll be happy to help. -Ed Richard Nantel on 10/02/98 04:34:47 PM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu cc: (bcc: Ed Estlow/SRM/US)Subject: Snake guides Max Satoh's web site has made me think I too could make my own snakeguides.(Why do I always think it's tougher to do than it really is.) My =questionisthis: apart from paper clips, what type and gauge of wire can I use =to makesnake guides? Also, if you have a source, that would be most =helpful. Many thanks Richard ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01BDEE45.3A8523C0 I have one. It is a nice, simple, = buy music wire (piano wire) at most hobby shops...not stainless, so = to blue it or plate it (http://www.caswellplating.com -- for small plating and = and chemicals). GeorgeBourke I don't know why OutlookExpress = everything is a hyperlink! -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= guidesDave LeClair has something= e-address isLECLAIR123@aol.comE-mail = direct, he'll be happy to = on 10/02/98 04:34:47 PMPlease respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= "Rodmakers (E-mail)" <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= guidesMax Satoh's web site has made me think I = make my own snakeguides.(Why do I always think it's tougher = than it really is.) My questionisthis: apart from paper = type and gauge of wire can I use to makesnake guides? Also, if = thanksRichard ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01BDEE45.3A8523C0-- from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri Oct 2 23:01:35 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP Subject: Re: Snake guides Onis, Have you heard of triple-chrome plating? That is chrome on top of nickelontop of copper plated to steel basemetal. So, you can do a very good job ofit if you copper plate first. George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Snake guides Hey Tony. Do you plate or treat the music wire in any way? The musicwirein this part of the world rusts easily. I was thinking of nickel platingusing the "Woods strike" but I don't know how well steel takes nickel. Itworks great on brass but I've not tried it with steel. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 10:38 AM 10/3/98 +0800, you wrote:On Fri, 2 Oct 1998, Richard Nantel wrote: I'm making snakes from music wire you can buy at hoby shops in around.28thou. This work perfectly. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from morten@flash.net Fri Oct 2 23:50:41 1998 Subject: Re: Parabolic tapers This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------1313D0F311B Rens, I have built a Pezon & Michel PPP Colorado 7'7" #5, and I reallylike it. However I do feel it works better with a WF4. I am attachingthe taper. I myself am looking for the Para16 taper, does anyone outthere have it?Morten Lovstad --------------1313D0F311B pezon & MichelColorado 7'7" #5Tip length:1330mm. Approx.52 1/2"Butt length: 1020mmOriginal measurements were metric @ 150mm intervals and have beeninterpolated to5" stations. 0-.0795-.09410-.11015-.13020-.14625-.16130-.17335-.18540-.20145- .22050-.22855-.23260-.24065-.25270-.25675-.26480-.26885-.27290- .27291-.272 --------------1313D0F311B-- from channer@hubwest.com Fri Oct 2 23:51:20 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id ADA5BFD00E8; Fri, 02 Oct 1998 22:52:53 MDT Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey At 08:13 PM 10/2/98 -0700, you wrote: you forgot:and one woman, who is just looking for one class on bamboo rod building.you guys are so funny! Jean;Nice to see you have stayed with us thru all the recent idiocy on the list.If you are looking for a class, let the list know where you live , and I amsure someone can steer you to the closest one.John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Fri Oct 2 23:54:45 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AE711CAB0114; Fri, 02 Oct 1998 22:56:17 MDT Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey At 02:45 PM 10/2/98 -0700, you wrote:I trust we all have enough good humor to take this the right way: How many list members does it take to change a lightbulb? 1 to change the lightbulb and to post the mailing list that the bulb hasbeen changed.14 to share similar experiences of changing lightbulbs and to explain howitcould have been done differently.7 to talk about the dangers of changing light bulbs27 to point out spelling/grammar errors of posts about changinglightbulbs53 to flame the spell checkers156 to write the list administrator complaining about the light bulbdiscussion being "off topic" and inappropriate.10 to post that this list is not about light bulbs, and to please take thise-mail exchange to a new alt.lightbulb newsgroup.111 to defend the posting on this list, saying that we all use lightbulbs,therefore the posts are relevant to this list.6 to debate which method of changing lightbulbs is superior, where to buythe best lightbulbs, what brand of lightbulbs work best for thistechnique;and what brands are faulty.27 to post URL's where one can see different examples of lightbulbs.14 to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly, and to post correctedURLs.33 to put together all the posts to date, then quote them including allheaders and footers and then add "me too"19 to quote the "me too"s to say "me three"12 to post the list that they are unsubscribing because they cannothandlethe lightbulb controversy. DaveAlmost fell off my chair, that was great.John from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Sat Oct 3 00:15:38 1998 00:15:05 ix4.ix.netcom.comvia smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Snake guides Thanks George. No, I haven't tried the triple-chrome plating but it soundslike the way to go. I'll give it a try. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 09:06 PM 10/2/98 -0700, you wrote:Onis, Have you heard of triple-chrome plating? That is chrome on top of nickelontop of copper plated to steel basemetal. So, you can do a very good job ofit if you copper plate first. George Bourke from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Sat Oct 3 00:53:02 1998 ; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 17:53:00 +1200 Subject: Re: Snake guides Onis , Tony will tell you it never rains in Perth so he does not have a problem . Seriously , I have been using the grey piano wire for a year and have had nosign of rust( yet) and it does rain here . Some people suggest varnishingthe guides after fitting to protect them . Iank At 10:35 PM 2/10/98 -0500, you wrote:Hey Tony. Do you plate or treat the music wire in any way? The musicwirein this part of the world rusts easily. I was thinking of nickel platingusing the "Woods strike" but I don't know how well steel takes nickel. Itworks great on brass but I've not tried it with steel. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 10:38 AM 10/3/98 +0800, you wrote:On Fri, 2 Oct 1998, Richard Nantel wrote: I'm making snakes from music wire you can buy at hoby shops in around.28 thou. This work perfectly. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Sat Oct 3 00:53:05 1998 ; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 17:52:56 +1200 Subject: Re: Snake guides Richard , I am using music(piano) wire and Dave's Snake maker . I have purchasedthewire from a local piano tuner who has all the thicknesses from about 20thouto 60 thou.and is happy to sell me a few metres at a time for a $1.50 ametre. His advise to me was to use the better grade wire which has a greyrather then silvery appearance . This colour looks better then the brightercoloured wire, which model makers prefer, on a rod. You may find thatthereis a local tuner who can supply you . I was also very happy with the wire from Dave and his wire is designed for the task , just that it is a long way A question though for anyone . I seem to ruin one guide out of two trying toflatten the feet so they are flattened parallel. ( and not my fingers ) .Does anyone have any suggestions as to an easy way to do this . regards Iank At 10:38 AM 3/10/98 +0800, you wrote:On Fri, 2 Oct 1998, Richard Nantel wrote: I'm making snakes from music wire you can buy at hoby shops in around.28 thou. This work perfectly. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz from maxs@geocities.co.jp Sat Oct 3 04:34:35 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA07360 for; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 18:34:30 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Snake guides Ian, Though I am not using this method, if you have solid iron vise which hasa flat surface above, set it tightly to a solid table and open the viseto the width narrower than the span of snake guide feet . Placing thesnake and leave it in between by holding both sides of snake feet on theboth edges of the vise, it will face down always and round head comesright down in a perfect balance. Then place your index finger on oneside of the snake feet in order not for the snake to move, and hit theotherfoot lightly by a small hummer to decide the angle of a flatfoot. Try the same thing for another foot so that the both foot can sit on aflat surface. Then give them rather harder hit by the hummer severaltimes to get the final flatten feet. It may also be convenient to have a hard metal mat (iron may be) with anappropriate size of holesin the middle. The hole can hold the snake guide in a perfect balancewith its head down the hole.Flatten the feets by hitting a foot at the edge of the iron mat. Ifthere is a power press above the iron mat, it can be automated. Onepress will make flattened feet. Just an idea. Does this make sense? Max-- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHomePage:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169/indexe.html Ian Kearney wrote: Richard , I am using music(piano) wire and Dave's Snake maker . I have purchasedthewire from a local piano tuner who has all the thicknesses from about 20thouto 60 thou.and is happy to sell me a few metres at a time for a $1.50 ametre. His advise to me was to use the better grade wire which has agreyrather then silvery appearance . This colour looks better then thebrightercoloured wire, which model makers prefer, on a rod. You may find thatthereis a local tuner who can supply you . I was also very happy with the wire from Dave and his wire is designed for the task , just that it is a longway A question though for anyone . I seem to ruin one guide out of two tryingtoflatten the feet so they are flattened parallel. ( and not my fingers ) .Does anyone have any suggestions as to an easy way to do this . regards Iank At 10:38 AM 3/10/98 +0800, you wrote: from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat Oct 3 06:14:58 1998 Sat, 3 Oct 1998 19:14:50 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Snake guides On Sat, 3 Oct 1998, Ian Kearney wrote: Onis , Tony will tell you it never rains in Perth so he does not have a problem . Seriously , I have been using the grey piano wire for a year and have hadnosign of rust( yet) and it does rain here . Some people suggest varnishingthe guides after fitting to protect them . Iank That's close but dosn't account for me falling in the drink. I use cold blue by Birchwood Casey. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Oct 3 07:30:08 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey In a message dated 10/3/98 1:07:39 AM, you wrote: the lightbulb controversy.you forgot:and one woman, who is just looking for one class on bamboo rod building.you guys are so funny!>> He also forgot the dozen or so of us who would have written in telling youhowto make your own light bulbs from carbonized bamboo filiments and cokebottles. from rmoon@ida.net Sat Oct 3 08:20:44 1998 Subject: Re: Snake guides boundary="------------37658A078FCA34F69D744EB3" --------------37658A078FCA34F69D744EB3 Though I am not using this method, if you have solid iron vise which has a flat surface above, set it tightly to a solid table and open the viseto the width narrower than the span of snake guide feet . Placing thesnake and leave it in between by holding both sides of snake feet on the both edges of the vise, it will face down always and round head comesright down in a perfect balance. Bingo Ralph --------------37658A078FCA34F69D744EB3 Though I am not using this method, if you have solid iron vise whichhasa flat surface above, set it tightly to a solid table and open thevise Placing thesnake and leave it in between by holding both sides of snake feeton theboth edges of the vise, it will face down always and round headcomesright down in a perfect balance. Bingo Ralph --------------37658A078FCA34F69D744EB3-- from rdonnely@webtv.net Sat Oct 3 09:24:06 1998 112.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with 112.iap.bryant.webtv.net(8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id HAA17931; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 07:24:04 -0700 ETAsAhRPdXtH4lJjH4R3Q1/ybHnE5xR3zwIUOJamWI2GvsNPXbks6illfvGh0xA= Subject: Guides Has anybody been able to duplicate to bronze finish on the old styleguides? Believe that it was the result of an oxidizing atmosphere in acontrolled heat treat furnace. If we look at the commercial chrome plated guides currently availablethey are usually specified as HARD chrome. Have been told by platersthat chrome is very soft and many platers specialize in hard chrome.ie: abrasion resistance for machine shafts etc. Believe the copperflash is for adherance to the base metal, nickle for the brilliace andchrome for corrosion resistance. Ray from fr.keulen@wxs.nl Sat Oct 3 09:26:22 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA4B96 Subject: Re: Parabolic tapers and snake guides Douglas P. Easton wrote: At 08:36 PM 10/2/98 +0200, F. Keulen wrote:Dear listmembers, I'm quite fond of parabolic tapers. I'm planning to build the Pezon etMicheltaper that I found on the Rodmakers site. Has anyone ever made it? Whatwas theresult like? It shouldn't be to weak a taper, some parabolics are aspowerfulas soggy pyjama trousers. Are there any other parabolic tapersavailableon theRodmakers site for a #5 rod which you can recommend. Thanks in advance , Rens Oosthoek Parabolics on the Rodmaker's Archive: Payne 200 8 ft 4 wtCattanach 8053 8 ft 5 wtPaul Young Para-15 8 ft ?A.J. Thramer 8 ft 4 wtCattanach 7643 7 ft 6" #4Grainger Aristocrat 8 ft 6" #4-5 Each of these rods is quite different from the others, but, to my mind,their stress curves are all parabolic.You might characterize the Grainger as soggy pajama legs but you mightwetyour pajamas over the power of the Para-15!A number of people on the list have made the Para-15 taper and raveaboutit. I have the granger and find it to be a very friendly rod which doesn'tlet me down even when I get a bit sloppy casting. I expect that severalpeople on the list could provide comments on the tapers listed above. Doug EastonTonawanda, NY Dear listmembers, Thanks a lot for the stimulating advice I have received so far about myquestionconcerning parabolic tapers. It has really been a great help.With reference to the discussion on snake eyes I can tell you all that hereinHolland, where you will only find very few cane rodmakers, we useremanium wire isstrong, comes in different diameters and it is guaranteed rust and stainproof. Itisn't even very expensive. Contact your local dentist! When was the lasttime youmet somebody wirth a rusty brace? Rens Oosthoek from jfreeman@cyberport.com Sat Oct 3 10:39:53 1998 Subject: Mica Heat Strips Hello, I'm new to the list and just want to say what a fantastic resource this is.Thanks to all who have helped develop it. I've a question concerning Mica Heat Strips for an oven. I can find theshorter lengths locally - up to 24". I'm wondering if two of the 24's canbe bolted together with good results. Any sparkies out there with ananswer? Thanks, Jim FreemanFarmington, New Mexico(San Juan River for those coming this way)jfreeman@cyberport.com from fiveside@net-gate.com Sat Oct 3 14:26:02 1998 ns1.net-gate.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA16869 for Subject: Re Ted Anderson To the List,The name Ted Anderson was mentioned last week. There was a TedAndersonwho worked closely with me in the sixties and seventies to make all themistakes and to make our first unassisted rods. If this is the same Ted Iwould love to get back in touch with him. Bill from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Oct 3 14:47:50 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Bamboo Modulus vs. Gamera Davy,I've just been going over some unread e-mail from last May . I've beenawayall summer.Question-What's the anthropological derivation of a prismoidal log as itrelates to rod building?Regards,Hank. from robert.kope@MCI2000.com Sat Oct 3 16:39:50 1998 with SMTP id forRODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu;Sat, 3 Oct 1998 21:39:18 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Polyurethane wood glue boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01BDEEDB.B5DAB620" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BDEEDB.B5DAB620 List, I don't recall if this came up recently or not, but I was just down at =the hardware store and they have a polyurethane wood glue. According to=the label, it's 100% waterproof, allows 30 minutes repositioning time, =cures 90% in 2-4 hours and fully in 24 hours. It looks about like the =old mucilin glue for paper. Has anyone tried this for gluing up rod =sections, or is there a down side to this stuff? Thanks in advance, -- Robert Kope ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BDEEDB.B5DAB620 List, I don't recall if this came up = but I was just down at the hardware store and they have a polyurethane = gluing up rod sections, or is there a down side to this =stuff? Thanks in advance, -- Robert =Kope ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BDEEDB.B5DAB620-- from channer@hubwest.com Sat Oct 3 17:22:34 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A3FE1EB80114; Sat, 03 Oct 1998 16:23:58 MDT Subject: Re: Guides At 10:24 AM 10/3/98 -0400, you wrote:Has anybody been able to duplicate to bronze finish on the old styleguides? Believe that it was the result of an oxidizing atmosphere in acontrolled heat treat furnace. If we look at the commercial chrome plated guides currently availablethey are usually specified as HARD chrome. Have been told by platersthat chrome is very soft and many platers specialize in hard chrome.ie: abrasion resistance for machine shafts etc. Believe the copperflash is for adherance to the base metal, nickle for the brilliace andchrome for corrosion resistance. Ray Ray;If you are looking for bronze hardware, contact Dave LeClair atLECLAIR123@aol.com, he makes it all, guides,tips,ferrules and reelseats.John Channer from bdcreek@grand-rapids.crosswinds.net Sat Oct 3 17:45:22 1998 (envelope- from bdcreek@grand-rapids.crosswinds.net) Subject: Re: Bamboo Modulus vs. Gamera Hank-A prismoidal log is the one that's across the river I'm on the wrongside of. They are usually laying with an acute edge up, are slimy, andare several inches if not feet below the elevation of the bank. Alwayscross with a partner so you can hand your rod to him before you fall.Lots of these on the Gallatin, as I'm sure you know.;^) Brian from robert.kope@MCI2000.com Sat Oct 3 18:29:58 1998 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 23:29:25 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Snake guides boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01BDEEEB.18B6CB80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BDEEEB.18B6CB80 Max, You have an excellent command of English, but unless you also understand=slang you may have been confused by Ralph's terse reply. Allow me to =paraphrase:"Excellent solution! Thank you, Satoh-san." -- Robert Kope-----Original Message-----From: Ralph W Moon Date: Saturday, October 03, 1998 6:24 AMSubject: Re: Snake guides Though I am not using this method, if you have solid iron vise which = a flat surface above, set it tightly to a solid table and open the = to the width narrower than the span of snake guide feet . Placing = snake and leave it in between by holding both sides of snake feet on = both edges of the vise, it will face down always and round head = ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BDEEEB.18B6CB80 Max, You have an excellent command of English, butunless = understand slang you may have been confused by Ralph's terse = me to paraphrase:"Excellent solution! Thankyou, = Satoh-san." -- Robert Kope -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Saturday, October 03, 1998 6:24 AMSubject: Re: guidesThough I am not using this method, if = solid iron vise which has a flat surface above, set it = a solid table and open the vise to the width narrower = in between by holding both sides of snake feet on the = of the vise, it will face down always and round head comes = Ralph ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BDEEEB.18B6CB80-- from bobspring@sisna.com Sat Oct 3 18:58:52 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A8FB24E800F2; Sat, 03 Oct 1998 17:53:31 MDT Subject: join rodmakers Please change the address to bobspring@yahoo.com Thanks from morten@flash.net Sat Oct 3 19:00:48 1998 Subject: Re: Snake guides Max, I personally enjoy reading of your efforts in bamboo rod making. Your comments are read with great interst. The idea of ironing blanksto straighten them, was an excellent one. I'm going to try this. Yourinput is exactly what the rodmaker's list is all about. Keep up thegood work. Domo Arigato...... Morten from Turbotrk@aol.com Sat Oct 3 19:07:34 1998 Subject: Re: Silicone Treated Cloth I know from my furniture re-finishing that silicon is a major problem. Ifitgets into the wood, most finishes will not stick. I don't think this is agood idea for rods. my micron worth stuart miller from lblan@provide.net Sat Oct 3 19:12:02 1998 Subject: RE: Polyurethane wood glue We did this one a year or so ago. I'm happy to tell you that we handled itin our usual, gentlemanly fashion.... about a week and a half of flames, myglue can beat your glue pronouncements, etc. I don't think we ever settled it, but the glue of choice for the majoritywas epoxy. That of course, was followed by a week and a half of.... well,you get the picture. -----Original Message----- Subject: Polyurethane wood glue List, I don't recall if this came up recently or not, but I was just down at thehardware store and they have a polyurethane wood glue. According to thelabel, it's 100% waterproof, allows 30 minutes repositioning time, cures90%in 2-4 hours and fully in 24 hours. It looks about like the old mucilinglue for paper. Has anyone tried this for gluing up rod sections, or isthere a down side to this stuff? Thanks in advance, -- Robert Kope from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Sat Oct 3 19:12:52 1998 ; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 12:12:43 +1200 Subject: Re: Snake guides Max , Ralph , Have just tried this technique and my reject rate has come down to about1in 4 which is a huge improvement and I should be able to better that withpractise. Only problem is that my vise is not hard enough and I now havesome new little grooves , the same size of guide feet , in the top it . Acouple of hardened metal L shaped inserts for flatening feet as suggestedbyMax , should fix that. Many thanks Iank At 06:35 PM 3/10/98 +0900, you wrote:Ian, Though I am not using this method, if you have solid iron vise which hasa flat surface above, set it tightly to a solid table and open the viseto the width narrower than the span of snake guide feet . Placing thesnake and leave it in between by holding both sides of snake feet on theboth edges of the vise, it will face down always and round head comesright down in a perfect balance. Then place your index finger on oneside of the snake feet in order not for the snake to move, and hit theother foot lightly by a small hummer to decide the angle of a flatfoot. Try the same thing for another foot so that the both foot can sit on aflat surface. Then give them rather harder hit by the hummer severaltimes to get the final flatten feet. Max-- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHomePage:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169/indexe.html Ian Kearney wrote: Richard , I am using music(piano) wire and Dave's Snake maker . I have purchasedthewire from a local piano tuner who has all the thicknesses from about 20thouto 60 thou.and is happy to sell me a few metres at a time for a $1.50 ametre. His advise to me was to use the better grade wire which has agreyrather then silvery appearance . This colour looks better then thebrightercoloured wire, which model makers prefer, on a rod. You may find thatthereis a local tuner who can supply you . I was also very happy with thewire from Dave and his wire is designed for the task , just that it is a longway A question though for anyone . I seem to ruin one guide out of two tryingtoflatten the feet so they are flattened parallel. ( and not my fingers ) .Does anyone have any suggestions as to an easy way to do this . regards Iank At 10:38 AM 3/10/98 +0800, you wrote: Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz from Turbotrk@aol.com Sat Oct 3 19:26:57 1998 Subject: Re: Gatherings Tony, sorry to contradict but the World Record Brown came from the LittleRedRiver. However, I have personally seen a larger fish on both the Norfolk andwhereit joins the white. The one on the white came up after we ramed into atreehanging off shore. We knocked a birds' nest and a hatchling fell into theriver. We tried to retrieve it but a brown the size of a paddle blade cameupand ate it in one bite. I was two feet from the event and I dream about itevery night. no fish story either stuart from ragnarig@integrityol.com Sat Oct 3 19:38:18 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A5C112B0040; Sat, 03 Oct 1998 17:48:01 PDT Subject: Re: Re: Bamboo Modulus vs. Gamera Hank I think if you read my original post you'll see that no mention whateverwasmade regarding a "prismoidal log", but rather, the relationship betweenthepi at Twede's Cafe if it's carried out to seventeen places (or an average offive booths) and how the distributive law applies in such cases, alwaysusing the FOIL principal in the case of warm pi and keeping in mind thatthewaitress, if in standard form, can never be factored out. In other words: skunked on the Skykomish again Davy.-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Bamboo Modulus vs. Gamera Davy,I've just been going over some unread e-mail from last May . I've beenawayall summer.Question-What's the anthropological derivation of a prismoidal log as itrelates to rod building?Regards,Hank. from maxs@geocities.co.jp Sat Oct 3 19:39:51 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA11871 for; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 09:39:46 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Snake guides Robert san, I extremely appreciate your translation from slang to heartful English.Yes, I have difficulties to understand slang. Ralph san, Domo Arigato for "Bingo". Max -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHomePage:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169/indexe.html robert.kope wrote: Max, You have an excellent command of English, but unless you alsounderstand slang you may have been confused by Ralph's terse reply.Allow me to paraphrase:"Excellent solution! Thank you, Satoh-san." -- Robert Kope -----Original Message-----From: Ralph W Moon Date: Saturday, October 03, 1998 6:24 AMSubject: Re: Snake guides Though I am not using this method, if you have solid ironvise which hasa flat surface above, set it tightly to a solid table andopen the viseto the width narrower than the span of snake guide feet .Placing thesnake and leave it in between by holding both sides of snakefeet on theboth edges of the vise, it will face down always and roundhead comesright down in a perfect balance. Bingo Ralph from saweiss@flash.net Sat Oct 3 20:31:09 1998 Subject: Re: Parabolic tapers -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Parabolic tapers Rens, I have built a Pezon & Michel PPP Colorado 7'7" #5, and I reallylike it. However I do feel it works better with a WF4. I am attachingthe taper. I myself am looking for the Para16 taper, does anyone outthere have it?Morten Lovstad Morten,I am not able to open your file. What is it saved in?Steve Weiss from ragnarig@integrityol.com Sat Oct 3 20:31:52 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A24D2DA0034; Sat, 03 Oct 1998 18:41:33 PDT Subject: Cork Order Here's what I have decided to do as regards the cork order. Since I've onlygotten good recommendations for Cork Specialties in Miami, I'll send themanorder for myself and anyone else who wants to get in. I'm thinking right now that I'd like to see the goods before I make morethan a token order, so about a dozen guys/gals making a very minimumorderwill be plenty. That way we can all get a reasonable idea of what toexpectand nobody will be out much if it turns out to be crap. Make sense? Thenif a sufficient number of people are happy with what they receive andwishto order a really serious quantity, we can do that a little later- as longas it doesn't interfere with steelheading. Their minimum order is $75.00, so we won't need very much to get there ifahalf-dozen or so will send me their checks, say by the 15th or so. Thismight also be the way to go for somebody who will make a total of two orthree (or one) rods and just wants to get a volume price. I will cash thechecks, make the order, re-package and distribute the rings when they gethere, send them out to the participants and graciously ignore anycriticismsof my handling of the affair. The price for 1-1/8 inch dia. X 1/2 inch rings with 1/4 inch bore (yes, Igave up on the smaller holes) is $0.53 (fifty-three cents) so multiply that five bucks (the lower number for a "sample" order, the greater if it's goingto be over a couple of pounds) If I get too much money (or cork) I will puta share of same, proportional to your contribution, in the package which Iwill send you. On a similar subject, since we all got the word concerningthe accepted definition of "commercialism" I should get no flames inreturn comfort in the certain knowledge that I will not read them :-) Also, If youneed something right away, or if you need a large order, please order it onyour own. Above the $75.00 minimum, there is no significant price break(5% Anybody who'se still interested, send me a private email and I'll get thething going. In fact, if you go to Cork Specialties' website and seesomething else you want (They carry a selection of pre-formed grips) I'dbehappy to include same in the order. http://www.corkgrips.com Got to shut down- major lightning close by. Davy from jkallo@midwest.net Sat Oct 3 21:06:01 1998 Subject: Re: Gatherings At 08:26 PM 10/3/98 EDT, you wrote:Tony, sorry to contradict but the World Record Brown came from theLittle RedRiver. However, I have personally seen a larger fish on both the Norfolk andwhereit joins the white. The one on the white came up after we ramed into atreehanging off shore. We knocked a birds' nest and a hatchling fell into theriver. We tried to retrieve it but a brown the size of a paddle bladecame upand ate it in one bite. I was two feet from the event and I dream about itevery night. no fish story either stuart Hmm...I'm off to starting working on my "young bird" fly pattern inanticipation of next year's Rodmakers gathering. Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sat Oct 3 21:21:13 1998 (modemcable83.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: taper request BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_eXTftvSt0npLCmAr0D/D/w)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_eXTftvSt0npLCmAr0D/D/w) BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_exffBmGH/mwZJaa05WD14g)" --Boundary_(ID_exffBmGH/mwZJaa05WD14g) My bamboo arrives Tuesday and I'm not quite decided on a taper for rodnumber one. I have Wayne's and Jack Howell's books (and of course accesstothe web). Can anyone point me in the direction of a fairly fast action 3 or4 weight taper, say about 7 ft long? I'm hoping to build a nice dry fly rod stress graphs just yet so I'm finding it tough looking at tapers and tryingto imagine how the rod would feel. Many thanks Richard --Boundary_(ID_exffBmGH/mwZJaa05WD14g) bamboo arrives Tuesday and I'm not quite decided on a taper for rod = I have Wayne's and Jack Howell's books (and of course access to the = anyone point me in the direction of a fairly fast action 3 or 4 weight = say about 7 ft long? I'm hoping to build a nice dry fly rod for the = stream I fish regularly. I'm not sure how to translate stress graphs = I'm finding it tough looking at tapers and trying to imagine how the rod = feel. thanks Richard --Boundary_(ID_exffBmGH/mwZJaa05WD14g)-- --Boundary_(ID_eXTftvSt0npLCmAr0D/D/w) mail).vcf" BEGIN:VCARDVERSION:2.1N:Nantel;Richard;;;FN:Richard Nantel (E-mail)ORG:Le groupe MENTOR;TITLE:TEL;WORK;VOICE:(514) 393- 3292TEL;HOME;VOICE:(514) 485-2287TEL;PAGER;VOICE:[1] (514) 111- 1111TEL;WORK;FAX:(514) 393-1483ADR;WORK:;;4374 Old Orchard Avenue;Monteal;Quebec;H4A 3B4;CanadaLABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:4374 Old Orchard =Avenue=3D0D=3D0AMonteal, Quebec H4A 3B4=3D0D=3D0ACanadaADR;HOME:;;4374 Old Orchard Avenue;Monteal;Quebec;H4A 3B4;CanadaLABEL;HOME;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:4374 Old Orchard =Avenue=3D0D=3D0AMonteal, Quebec H4A 3B4=3D0D=3D0ACanadaEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:richard.nantel@videotron.caREV:19980514T133343ZEND:VCARD --Boundary_(ID_eXTftvSt0npLCmAr0D/D/w)-- from morten@flash.net Sat Oct 3 21:21:51 1998 Subject: Re: Parabolic tapers Steve, sorry about that, here's the taper. Pezon & Michel, Ritz Super Parbolic PPP Colorado, 7'7" #5. Original measurements were metric at 15cm increments. I haveinterpolated to 5" stations and converted the measurements.Tip length 1330mm (ca.52 1/2")Butt length 1020 mm.079 .094 .110 .130 .146 .161 .173 .185 .201 .220 .228 .232 .240 .252.256 .264 .268 .272 .272 Build it, it's great Morten from FlyTyr@southshore.com Sat Oct 3 21:24:26 1998 natco.southshore.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA09940 for; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 21:25:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Gatherings You are right, the last world record 40 lbs came from the Little Red. Theone I amtalking about is the one before the 40 pounder. That was 38 lb Browncaught on theNorfok at Mcclallen Trout Dock on a Arkansas sandwich. I should of made itclearerwhen I posted itI believe you on that, last year we had one in the stretch of the river I liveonthat we called the submarine. It was estimated to be over 40 lbs. It justkind ondisappeared. Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Turbotrk@aol.com wrote: Tony, sorry to contradict but the World Record Brown came from theLittle RedRiver.However, I have personally seen a larger fish on both the Norfolk andwhereit joins the white. The one on the white came up after we ramed into atreehanging off shore. We knocked a birds' nest and a hatchling fell into theriver. We tried to retrieve it but a brown the size of a paddle blade cameupand ate it in one bite. I was two feet from the event and I dream aboutitevery night. no fish story either stuart from ragnarig@integrityol.com Sat Oct 3 21:33:08 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A0AE21C0084; Sat, 03 Oct 1998 19:42:54 PDT Subject: Re: Parabolic tapers Dear Rens I agree wholeheartedly with Tony's comments. I have never cast a Young,ora rod made on one of their tapers, that I did not really like. For me,there is no question of which rod I would make, especially when youconsiderwhat you have to go through. Try a Driggs or, if you want power, a para 15. You won't be sorry. Davy -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Parabolic tapers On Fri, 2 Oct 1998, F. Keulen wrote: Dear listmembers, I'm quite fond of parabolic tapers. I'm planning to build the Pezon etMicheltaper that I found on the Rodmakers site. Has anyone ever made it? Whatwas theresult like? It shouldn't be to weak a taper, some parabolics are aspowerfulas soggy pyjama trousers. Are there any other parabolic tapersavailableon theRodmakers site for a #5 rod which you can recommend. Thanks in advance , Rens Oosthoek Rens,I haven't made this rod but I've repaired a broken tip of one and theowner sent both tips so I could compare the result. I didn't like theaction all that much to honest. It cast great up to around 20-30 feet butI never got the hang of it for longer casts but I didn't have it for allthat long either.If you like paras try the PHY's, the Driggs is a 4-5 or the Perfectionistor that classic para 15. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tbeckfam@pacbell.net Sat Oct 3 22:11:38 1998 mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id UAA28395 for Subject: Re: Gatherings Joseph S.Kallo wrote: At 08:26 PM 10/3/98 EDT, you wrote:Tony, sorry to contradict but the World Record Brown came from theLittle RedRiver.However, I have personally seen a larger fish on both the Norfolk andwhereit joins the white. The one on the white came up after we ramed into atreehanging off shore. We knocked a birds' nest and a hatchling fell into theriver. We tried to retrieve it but a brown the size of a paddle bladecame upand ate it in one bite. I was two feet from the event and I dream aboutitevery night. no fish story either stuart Hmm...I'm off to starting working on my "young bird" fly pattern inanticipation of next year's Rodmakers gathering. Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale There is a guy here in S.california who ties a bird imitation for largemouth bass. The brush is so thick in the local resivoir that all you cando is dap the fly between the brush. I have heard that it is anextremly effective technique.Traver Becker from rmoon@ida.net Sat Oct 3 22:38:16 1998 Subject: Re: Snake guides +Thank you Robert and thank you Max. I was really a little terse, butMax's solution was so beautifully simple and correct I wrote the firstthing that came to my mind. from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sat Oct 3 23:47:11 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP Subject: Re: Gatherings Maybe a big brown got it. George ;^)-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Gatherings I believe you on that, last year we had one in the stretch of the river Ilive onthat we called the submarine. It was estimated to be over 40 lbs. It justkind ondisappeared. Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Turbotrk@aol.com wrote: from channer@hubwest.com Sun Oct 4 01:13:17 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A25814FB0132; Sun, 04 Oct 1998 00:14:48 MDT Subject: Re: Gatherings At 09:52 PM 10/3/98 -0700, you wrote:Maybe a big brown got it. George ;^) Nah, probably caught by a 10 year old with a worm.John -----Original Message-----From: Tony Spezio Date: Saturday, October 03, 1998 7:29 PMSubject: Re: Gatherings I believe you on that, last year we had one in the stretch of the river Ilive onthat we called the submarine. It was estimated to be over 40 lbs. It justkind ondisappeared. Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Turbotrk@aol.com wrote: from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Sun Oct 4 04:19:55 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id EAA05374 for (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id VAA08545 for ; Sat, 3 Oct1998 21:58:50 Subject: Re: Polyurethane wood glue I've used Gorilla brand polyurethane glue for the splices on 3nodeless rods and have had no problems either during costructionor use. Now this is a small sample, and the first rod is only 2seasons old, but so far I've seen no reason to change. Its strongbut flexible and resistant to heat. But I'm hesitant to try it on the whole rod. First of all, it is pretty thick, and would be hard to spread the kind of thin layerI want on the fine strips. Next, the usual directions is to spread on only one surface; thats hard to do with strips. Last, the stuff expands and foams as it cures and I'm worried it would push the fine strips inthe tip apart.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Sat, 3 Oct 1998, robert.kope wrote: List, I don't recall if this came up recently or not, but I was just down at thehardware store and they have a polyurethane wood glue. According to thelabel,it's 100% waterproof, allows 30 minutes repositioning time, cures 90% in2-4 hoursand fully in 24hours. It looks about like the old mucilin glue for paper. Has anyone triedthis for gluing up rod sections, or is there a down side to this stuff? Thanks in advance, -- Robert Kope from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sun Oct 4 08:25:10 1998 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP Subject: Sv: Polyurethane wood glue IAA18204 foams as it cures and I'm worried it would push the fine strips inthe tip apart.......................................................................Frank Stetzer > Have been there, done that. Never again. regards, Carsten Jorgensen from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Oct 4 09:31:59 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey Amen,Wayne.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Oct 4 09:32:04 1998 Subject: Re: starting out Bob,The culms I've gotten over the past 20 years or so have generally beenready to plane-they have a nice yellow color and seem dry. However,Ipicked upsome nice cane at the grayrock gathering that seemed a little green. I amplaning 2 rods out of 1 of them right now and to my aging faculties thereseems to be nothing wrong with the culm I'm using. Go figure.Rgards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Oct 4 09:32:11 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Silicone Treated Cloth Dave,The info you provided seems to me to be in keeping with the list'spurpose.I don't think Dave LeClair's posts are offensive-they also provide a source Now if someone puts a price list on the list I figure he's stepped over theline. Just my $.02.Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Oct 4 09:32:12 1998 Subject: Re: Re: cork A.J.,Only one ring / rod? Wow, that must be some ring! :-).Regards,Hank. from ragnarig@integrityol.com Sun Oct 4 09:37:55 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id AA6330C0146; Sun, 04 Oct 1998 07:46:59 PDT Subject: Re: Polyurethane wood glue In Bavaria I used a "Reformhaus" version of this stuff on a large rod andhad good results with the assistance of a skilled woodworker who wasveryfamiliar with the qualities of the material. I used an American brandafterI got home and had some similar troubles as Carsten cited. After workingout a method that usually gave good results but required more attentionthanwas practical I have since decided that, for me, there are other glues thatprobably give better results anyway and do not require nearly so muchcontrol as regards moisture, binding, curing time etc. Davy -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Polyurethane wood glue I've used Gorilla brand polyurethane glue for the splices on 3nodeless rods and have had no problems either during costructionor use. Now this is a small sample, and the first rod is only 2seasons old, but so far I've seen no reason to change. Its strongbut flexible and resistant to heat. But I'm hesitant to try it on the whole rod. First of all, itis pretty thick, and would be hard to spread the kind of thin layerI want on the fine strips. Next, the usual directions is to spread on onlyone surface; thats hard to do with strips. Last, the stuff expands andfoams as it cures and I'm worried it would push the fine strips inthe tip apart.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Sat, 3 Oct 1998, robert.kope wrote: List, I don't recall if this came up recently or not, but I was just down atthe hardware store and they have a polyurethane wood glue. According tothelabel, it's 100% waterproof, allows 30 minutes repositioning time, cures90%in 2-4 hours and fully in 24hours. It looks about like the old mucilin glue for paper. Has anyonetried this for gluing up rod sections, or is there a down side to thisstuff? Thanks in advance, -- Robert Kope from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Sun Oct 4 12:44:06 1998 SMTP Sun, 4 Oct 1998 19:43:49 +0200 Subject: Old rod? MAA16069 Dear Friends Last week i became an old rod for restoration;a 3-piece, bamboo rod ( not split cane ).Can`t read exact the name of the rodmakers, it`s signed by hand withink,the name is "Jeavy(?) & Mich". There`s anyone who know this name? The maker(s), the century and thecountry? Regards Stefan-- S. Grau`s * atelier edelweiss *Gespliesste Angelruten _ Bamboo RodsAlpine Fliegenfischerschule & GuidingAlpine Flyfishing School & Guiding Brunnadernstr. 11 3006 Berne/SwitzerlandPhone: ++41 (0) 31 352 42 88 ab 19.00 / from 7.pme-mail: gespliesst@bluewin.ch from FlyTyr@southshore.com Sun Oct 4 12:44:07 1998 (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA22272 for ;Sun, 4 Oct1998 12:44:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Gatherings I know this is a Rodmakers list but the story on how the 38 pounder wascaughtis a crazy one. Anyone interested in it can contact me off list. The storyonthe 40 pounder is wilder yet. Neither time did the person plan on fishing.Both times just fooling around.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.comjohn channer wrote: At 09:52 PM 10/3/98 -0700, you wrote:Maybe a big brown got it. George ;^) Nah, probably caught by a 10 year old with a worm.John -----Original Message-----From: Tony Spezio Date: Saturday, October 03, 1998 7:29 PMSubject: Re: Gatherings I believe you on that, last year we had one in the stretch of the river Ilive onthat we called the submarine. It was estimated to be over 40 lbs. Itjustkind ondisappeared. Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Turbotrk@aol.com wrote: from khube@benmeadows.com Sun Oct 4 13:01:02 1998 Subject: Garrison 3WT This summer, I've had several chances to use my recently built Garrison#109(I think that's right) which is a 6'9" taper for 3wt. The rod seems to be areal noodle! I'm not sure if it's just the one I built or if the design justcomes out that way. It is pleasant to use at short distances and lays down a soft cast like youwant a 3wt to do...especially on the small streams I fish. A small fish willput a bend in the thing that makes you wonder what happens if a big fishjumped on my fly. Anyone else have any experience with this taper? Karl Hube from jaquin@netsync.net Sun Oct 4 13:34:25 1998 quartz.netsync.net(8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA23727 for ;Sun, 4 Oct1998 14:34:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Snake guides Morten Lovstad wrote: Max, I personally enjoy reading of your efforts in bamboo rod making. Your comments are read with great interst. The idea of ironing blanksto straighten them, was an excellent one. I'm going to try this. Yourinput is exactly what the rodmaker's list is all about. Keep up thegood work. Domo Arigato...... MortenMax I missed the information on ironing bamboo blanks to straightenthem. Would you mind re-posting?thanks jerry from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sun Oct 4 14:52:34 1998 (modemcable83.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Snake guides Hi Jerry, It's on Max Satoh's website at:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169/indexe.html It includes some excellent photos. Hope this helps Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Snake guides Morten Lovstad wrote: Max, I personally enjoy reading of your efforts in bamboo rod making. Your comments are read with great interst. The idea of ironing blanksto straighten them, was an excellent one. I'm going to try this. Yourinput is exactly what the rodmaker's list is all about. Keep up thegood work. Domo Arigato...... MortenMax I missed the information on ironing bamboo blanks to straightenthem. Would you mind re-posting?thanks jerry from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Oct 4 18:15:06 1998 boundary="_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862672=_=_=_"Subject: Re: Polyurethane wood glue --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862672=_=_=_ Robert We've had discussions on this glue before - some people have hadsome success with it but in the tests I have done it doesn't come close tothe performance of other available glues. I did extensive tests on splices and found the reactive polyurethanegluesfared worse and when they failed the surfaces was as smooth as theoriginalsplice. The problem with this glue is that it needs moisture to do its job. Ieventried to moisten the strips prior to gluing - got better results but nothingsatisfactory. Chris --Original Message Text--- List, I don't recall if this came up recently or not, but I was just down at thehardware store and they have a polyurethane wood glue. According to the label, it's 100% waterproof, allows 30 minutesrepositioning time, cures 90% in 2-4 hours and fully in 24 hours. It looks about like the old mucilin glue for paper. Has anyonetried this for gluing up rod sections, or is there a down side to this stuff? Thanks in advance, -- Robert Kope --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862672=_=_=_ Robert We've had discussions on this glue before - some people have hadsome success with it but in the tests I have done it doesn't come closetothe performance of other available glues. I did extensive tests on splices and found the reactive polyurethanegluesfared worse and when they failed the surfaces was as smooth as theoriginalsplice. The problem with this glue is that it needs moisture to do its job. Ieventried to moisten the strips prior to gluing - got better results but nothingsatisfactory. Chris --Original Message Text---From: robert.kopeDate: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 14:40:05 -0700 List, I don't recall if this came up recently ornot, butI was just down at the hardware store and they have a polyurethane woodglue.According to the label, it's 100% waterproof, allows 30 minutesrepositioningtime, cures 90% in 2-4 hours and fully in 24 hours. It looks about like theoldmucilin glue for paper. Has anyone tried this for gluing up rod sections, oristhere a down side to this stuff? Thanks in advance, -- Robert Kope --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862672=_=_=_-- from saltwein@swbell.net Sun Oct 4 18:55:46 1998 gw2adm.rcsntx.swbell.net SAA29148 Subject: Re: taper request Richard, My first rod was to the Wayne Cattanach taper for his 7' 4 wt. rod. Ithas been the first rod for many builders and is a great casting rod,IMHO. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from jcole10@juno.com Sun Oct 4 19:37:20 1998 20:37:08 EDT Subject: Southern Rodmakers Gathering Harry,Congratulations on putting together a great Gathering. A lot ofinformation was passed around and a super time was had by all. Lookingforward to Gathering No. 2.Thanks for all the time and effort you spent putting this together. John Cole from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Oct 4 19:38:45 1998 Mon, 5 Oct 1998 08:38:32 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Snake guides On Sun, 4 Oct 1998, Ian Kearney wrote: Max , Ralph , Have just tried this technique and my reject rate has come down toabout 1in 4 which is a huge improvement and I should be able to better that withpractise. Only problem is that my vise is not hard enough and I now havesome new little grooves , the same size of guide feet , in the top it . Acouple of hardened metal L shaped inserts for flatening feet assuggested byMax , should fix that. Many thanks Iank I think I remember that once again Dave L has the answer to this with some kind of case hardening preperation. Tony from Turbotrk@aol.com Sun Oct 4 20:29:54 1998 Subject: Re: Gatherings The young bird fly pattern better imply a sea fishing rod . This is no fishstory. I have wittnesses. stuart miller from GLohkamp@aol.com Sun Oct 4 21:04:33 1998 Subject: John Zimmey Mr Zimmey couldnt seem to find an E-Mail address for you so l thought l would tryhere. l understand that l have the same mill as you and if you wouldnt mind lwould like to ask you a few questions Gary Lohkamp GLohkamp @aol .com from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Sun Oct 4 21:09:03 1998 with SMTP with last message Subject: Re: taper request VAA26345 Richard, I'll second that. While I have never cast one, I'm building one of the WC 7'4wt.rods as outlined in the taper section of Wayne's book. I'm working on thetwopiece version, but I'm still not sure if I should do a "Sir D" modification ornot.. I'm at the "just about to start final planing" stage and am startingtoinvestigate ferrules. Any recommendations out there?? I too am a firsttimer. Good luck, whatever you choose... Dennis Haftel ----------Richard, My first rod was to the Wayne Cattanach taper for his 7' 4 wt. rod. Ithas been the first rod for many builders and is a great casting rod,IMHO. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from jczimny@dol.net Sun Oct 4 21:26:34 1998 Subject: Re: John Zimmey Sure Gary. jczimny@bamboorods.comJohn GLohkamp@aol.com wrote: Mr Zimmey couldnt seem to find an E-Mail address for you so l thought l would tryhere. l understand that l have the same mill as you and if you wouldnt mind lwould like to ask you a few questions Gary LohkampGLohkamp @aol .com from jkallo@midwest.net Sun Oct 4 21:35:28 1998 Subject: Southern Rodmakers Hello all,I just want to extend the warmest 'thanks' to Harry Boyd and all therestat the gathering this weekend. Though I only was able to make Friday'ssession, Wayne's talk and the interaction with all there was well worththedrive down. I started my first rod Saturday morning with Wayne's splittingdemonstration fresh in mind and the process was a breeze. I just finishedthe rough planning and hope to heat temper in the next few days (as soonasI figure out what I am going to use for an oven). To any beginners outthere: if you can make it to a gathering, by all means do it. Theexperience is sure to cut down on quite a few frustrations. It was also pretty nice to be able to put a few names to faces here onthelist. I look forward to seeing you all again next year, if not before. Thanks again, Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Oct 4 23:03:30 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey Jean -Presently there are 3 gals making rods in the US - I know of a coupleothers that are just starting - If you are among them I wish you the bestofluck and I as well as many others of this list would really enjoy talkingabout the craft again - Do you like purple????? from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Oct 4 23:03:35 1998 Subject: Re: Mica Heat Strips John -The mica heaters which are normally available at places such asGraingersare of high wattage output(about 30 wats/inch) - originally when I wasworkingon ovens I tried them - got hot spots in the oven to a point the they wouldscorch the bamboo - If you are constructing and oven my advice would betocontact Grand Technologies - they have provided many folks with the stripheater that I use in my oven - the price would be about the same as 2 oftheGrainger heaters from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Oct 4 23:03:50 1998 Subject: Morgan Mill This weekend I finally saw one of Tom M's Mills - it really works great -very accurate strips - on the 14 hour drive home Miles T & I devised a waytomotorize the unit - the principle would be similar to a Tol -A - Matic unitbut instead of being hydralic it would use a 90VDC gear motor - Foranyoneinterested I would be willing to send the drawings and the controldiagram.Also I would like to extend a Big Thank You to the folks that organized(Harry Boyd) and attended the SRG - Great fun - and don't believe thestoriesabout us getting 'lost' in Missouri somewhere from ccurrojr@mindspring.com Sun Oct 4 23:44:30 1998 Subject: SRG 1998 pictures on the web SRG attendees and all Listers: Here are some pictures from the Southern Rodmakers Gathering (primarilydone for those who need to prove to their significant others where thehell they've been for the last few days). God bless Harry Boyd. (Wait . . . that comes with his territory).Apologies to faces I couldn't put a name to and names misspelled. Lotsof pictures - I tried to make it load as quickly as possible. Next yearyou gotta be there. Here's the address:http://www.mindspring.com/~ccurrojr/Srg98/srg1.html PS - The truth about Cattanach & Tiernan will out soon. Verily - a JackPine Journey. from maxs@geocities.co.jp Mon Oct 5 06:24:24 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA24579 for; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 20:24:18 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Snake guides Jerry Quinn wrote: Max I missed the information on ironing bamboo blanks to straightenthem. Would you mind re-posting?thanks jerry Jerry san, The same article to the post is in my web URL attached below. I recently moved English portion of the web contents to United States(Tripod) because of disk space shortage and better performance for some of you hopefully.Though the old URL still works now, soon it will be removed.So please try new URL attached below. Sorry for some comercial bannershowd upsometimes. When something is wrong, please advise! Max P.S. Richard Nantel san, thank you for referring to my web for Jerry. -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from richjez@enteract.com Mon Oct 5 07:05:46 1998 0000 Subject: Re: SRG 1998 pictures on the web Thanks for the pictures. Makes me vow to try harder to get there next year.Rich Jezioro At 11:42 PM 10/4/98 -0500, you wrote:SRG attendees and all Listers: Here are some pictures from the Southern Rodmakers Gathering(primarilydone for those who need to prove to their significant others where thehell they've been for the last few days). God bless Harry Boyd. (Wait . . . that comes with his territory).Apologies to faces I couldn't put a name to and names misspelled. Lotsof pictures - I tried to make it load as quickly as possible. Next yearyou gotta be there. Here's the address:http://www.mindspring.com/~ccurrojr/Srg98/srg1.html PS - The truth about Cattanach & Tiernan will out soon. Verily - a JackPine Journey. *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ /||/______/_||_________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Mon Oct 5 07:14:07 1998 IAA26181 Subject: RE: SRG 1998 pictures on the web Thanks.Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, October 05, 1998 12:43 AM Subject: SRG 1998 pictures on the web SRG attendees and all Listers: Here are some pictures from the Southern Rodmakers Gathering(primarilydone for those who need to prove to their significant otherswhere thehell they've been for the last few days). God bless Harry Boyd. (Wait . . . that comes with histerritory).Apologies to faces I couldn't put a name to and namesmisspelled. Lotsof pictures - I tried to make it load as quickly aspossible. Next yearyou gotta be there. Here's the address:http://www.mindspring.com/~ccurrojr/Srg98/srg1.html PS - The truth about Cattanach & Tiernan will out soon.Verily - a JackPine Journey. from saltwein@swbell.net Mon Oct 5 08:05:41 1998 gw2adm.rcsntx.swbell.net IAA14887 Subject: SRG I would like to join in and express a huge thanks to Harry Boyd fororganizing and putting on a really neat event in such a short time. Ihope this is one of many more to come. I would also like to personally thank all of the people who sogenerously shared their knowledge and hard won experiences, and foranswering what must have seemed obvious questions of a newbie. Thanks again, Harry. Regards, SteveIndependence, MOIndependence, MO from FlyTyr@southshore.com Mon Oct 5 08:17:04 1998 (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA24628 for ;Mon, 5 Oct1998 08:17:41 -0500 Subject: Re: SRG 1998 pictures on the web The only regret I have is I could not attend Friday and Saturday, was tiedup with the Conclave.Wayne, really wanted to say hello again. The North Arkansas Flyfisherswillbe having a show in March of 99. Would like to include some rod making. Ifanyone is interested, please let me know.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Charles Curro wrote: SRG attendees and all Listers: Here are some pictures from the Southern Rodmakers Gathering(primarilydone for those who need to prove to their significant others where thehell they've been for the last few days). from doddd@monroe.army.mil Mon Oct 5 09:59:52 1998 (5.5.2232.9) Subject: RE: Mica Heat Strips Wayne, Has any one tried to use a regular oven electrical oven element.(Straightened out). Just a thought. Maybe they can not be straightenedout. Does an electronic appliance supply company sell straight ones?Theymake electronic elements for pizza ovens. Are they straight plug inelements??Has any one tried this route. Electric ovens are not rocket science. It seems so simple, its almost too easy. An oven dial from a stove and a few metal hangers from the old oven maywork. Looking for a better way,Dave from thramer@presys.com Mon Oct 5 11:43:10 1998 0000 Subject: Re: taper request Richard Nantel wrote: My bamboo arrives Tuesday and I'm not quite decided on a taper for rodnumber one. I have Wayne's and Jack Howell's books (and of courseaccess to the web). Can anyone point me in the direction of a fairlyfast action 3 or 4 weight taper, say about 7 ft long? I'm hoping tobuild a nice dry fly rod for the freestone stream I fish regularly.I'm not sure how to translate stress graphs just yet so I'm finding ittough looking at tapers and trying to imagine how the rod would feel. Many thanks Richard Name: Richard Nantel (E-mail).vcfPart 1.2 Type: unspecified type (application/octet-stream)Encoding: quoted-printable The 7ft 4wt taper by Wayne C. that has beem modified a tad by Darryl H.seems to have won near universal appeal, As yet have seen no postsdetracting from it.A.J.Thramer from thramer@presys.com Mon Oct 5 11:44:32 1998 0000 Subject: Re: cork FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: A.J.,Only one ring / rod? Wow, that must be some ring! :-).Regards,Hank. PRE WAR CORK!! :) A.J. from Fallcreek9@aol.com Mon Oct 5 11:50:54 1998 Subject: Re: Dial indicator base question #2 In a message dated 9/29/98 7:00:56 AM Central Daylight Time,TSmithwick@aol.com writes: List: Such an item exists. It was developed by Bill Waara of Michigan. Toinsure the not commercialization of the list, contact me off-list forsource.I have no $$ interests. Only know I have one, it fits on my dial caliper, andit works like a charm. Richard Tyree from ljrp@penn.com Mon Oct 5 11:58:24 1998 Subject: Re: taper request & Offer to Help Hello I have quite a number of bamboo rods from the "Good Old Days"GrangersHeddons and most of the other manufacturers also have a 7 1/2 footLeonardand a 7 1/2 foot T&T by Tom Maxwell. If someone could tell me how tomeasure them I would be glad to supply info. just need first measurementand distance between measurements: Have a sweet 3 pc Heddon 7 1/2 foot; a Heddon 2pc 7 ft and Heddon 71/2ft also a Granger 3 pcs 71/2 Aristocrat. Dick from Central Pa. I do have adial caliper............Best Dick Richard Nantel wrote: My bamboo arrives Tuesday and I'm not quite decided on a taper for rodnumber one. I have Wayne's and Jack Howell's books (and of courseaccess to the web). Can anyone point me in the direction of a fairlyfast action 3 or 4 weight taper, say about 7 ft long? I'm hoping tobuild a nice dry fly rod for the freestone stream I fish regularly.I'm not sure how to translate stress graphs just yet so I'm finding ittough looking at tapers and trying to imagine how the rod would feel. Many thanks Richard Name: Richard Nantel (E-mail).vcfPart 1.2 Type: unspecified type (application/octet-stream)Encoding: quoted-printable The 7ft 4wt taper by Wayne C. that has beem modified a tad by Darryl H.seems to have won near universal appeal, As yet have seen no postsdetracting from it.A.J.Thramer from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Mon Oct 5 13:00:56 1998 Subject: RE: Mica Heat Strips Dave,When not working on finishing up my planing forms, rebuilding my latheor doing Honey-Do's for SWMBO, I have been collecting parts for an oven.I work for an air conditioning manufacturer. We make electric furnacesthat use sheathed elements (Calrod type). We buy elements that are "U"shaped but otherwise flat and bend them into a "C" shape to fit insidethe blower housing. I have obtained two of these elements in the flatto experiment with for my oven. At 240V these are 5Kw elements, sowhenused on 120V they should be 1.25Kw elements. I also have somestandoff's to mount the element with. I have not tried it, but it may be possible to straighten out an ovenelement. I got my oven idea from an electric smoker made several yearsago by another engineer. He added several bends to a similar element tomake it compact enough to fit in the base of the smoker cabinet. As faras I know the smoker is still going strong. I plan to use a 5' section of 6" duct pipe for the inner shell, wrap itwith 1" insulation and place an outer wrap of 8" duct pipe over that. Ican purchase a 6" end cap for the inner shell but may have to make an 8"end cap. 1/2" x 1/2" Hardware cloth will be used for a shelf. An oventhermostat from an appliance parts house will control the temperature.I have a digital thermometer that I use for heating/air conditioningwork that I will use to check the temperature setting. As you say, this is not rocket science. The fun so far for me has beencollecting the parts and designing the equipment that I will use. Ithas been a long hot summer here and I have not had much time to work onthis as I have kept busy in off hours working on air conditioners to pay the garage to work on this stuff. Dick Fuhrmandickfuhrman@rheemote.com from destinycon@mindspring.com Mon Oct 5 14:44:03 1998 Subject: RE: Mica Heat Strips At 11:03 AM 10/5/98 -0400, you wrote:Wayne, Has any one tried to use a regular oven electrical oven element.(Straightened out). Just a thought. Maybe they can not be straightenedout. Does an electronic appliance supply company sell straight ones?Theymake electronic elements for pizza ovens. Are they straight plug inelements??Has any one tried this route. Electric ovens are not rocket science. It seems so simple, its almost too easy. An oven dial from a stove and a few metal hangers from the old oven maywork. Looking for a better way,Dave Dave,My oven is built from SS stove pipe (the kind used for fire-places'thesedays). It's insulated and two four foot sections fit together to make an8' oven. I went to a oven supply house and had them make two straightelements for the bottom. The only mistake I made was having them madefor110 volt as I didn't have 220 in my shop at the time. Don't do this, ifyou can avoid it, It takes to long to heat up. Other than that it workslike a champ.Gary H. from saweiss@flash.net Mon Oct 5 14:58:30 1998 Subject: Re: Dial indicator base question #2 -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Dial indicator base question #2 In a message dated 9/29/98 7:00:56 AM Central Daylight Time,TSmithwick@aol.com writes: you put the strip in a caliper or micrometer you are going to bend overtheapex slightly, and again get an inaccurate reading. The only way aroundthisis to have a 60* groove of known depth in the anvil of the mike orcaliper,sothat the apex of the strip becomes irrelevant. This whole businesspresentssome tricky problems of calibration, but adressing them is the only waytoapproach real accuracy. >> List: Such an item exists. It was developed by Bill Waara of Michigan.Toinsure the not commercialization of the list, contact me off-list forsource.I have no $$ interests. Only know I have one, it fits on my dial caliper,andit works like a charm. Richard Tyree Richard.IMHO, there is nothing wrong with posting this kin of info on the list.However, if you think it's not pc, I would appreciate getting it off- list.Thanks,Steve Weiss (saweiss@flash.net) from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Oct 5 15:01:52 1998 Subject: Re: Southeastern Rodmakers Fall Homecoming 2000 After my experiences this weekend, just set a date and I'll be there. Letmeknow what I can do to help (other than organize the whole thing!). Harry Boyd GGWilliams wrote: This is an idea (the name is just something I pulled out of the air) I'vebeen contemplating for a few months and this seems as good a time asany torun it by the list. We now have rod building conventions, gatherings, conclaves, meetings,etc.in the northwest,northeast, south, and southwest. It only seems fitting that we considerhaving one here in the southeast as well. Basically what I'm proposing is getting together here in the southeastsomewhere such as Gatlinburg, Knoxville, etc. during the fall leaf color(mid-October), with close proximity to the Great Smoky MountainsNationalPark, Cherokee National Forest and the Tennessee Valley Authority lakesandtailwaters, in the year 2000. Of course all the details aren't available that's why I'd like to get thelists comments and determine if there's enough interest among fellowrodbuilders here in the southeast to host such an event. Thanks. from destinycon@mindspring.com Mon Oct 5 15:02:14 1998 Subject: RE: Mica Heat Strips At 03:52 PM 10/5/98 -0400, you wrote:Dave,My oven is built from SS stove pipe (the kind used for fire-places'thesedays). It's insulated and two four foot sections fit together to make an8' oven. I went to a oven supply house and had them make two straightelements for the bottom. The only mistake I made was having them madefor110 volt as I didn't have 220 in my shop at the time. Don't do this, ifyou can avoid it, It takes to long to heat up. Other than that it workslike a champ.Gary H. Dave, Just read my own post, the pre-fad fire place flues are 3' long not 4'.this gives me a 6' oven. Guess I've been over estamating the length again.GWH from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Oct 5 15:30:31 1998 Subject: Re: taper request & Offer to Help Dick,I'm sure there will be great interest, but I can't tell you the best way toget the numbers. I'm just repeating what I remember others saying, but Ithinkyou start at 1", then measure every five inches with the rod joined. Mosttapermeasurements are taken on three flat to flat measurements and thenaveraged.Any special instructions such as "Varnish looks thick - allow .008 to .010forvarnish" are also helpfulAfter taking a look at the taper book of one of the SRG attendee's, I'mconvinced one can never have too many tapers! (thanks Dennis!)I anxiously await the results of your adventures with a dial caliper. I'dlike to see the numbers on all the rods you mention.Harry Boyd Dick Fogel wrote: Hello I have quite a number of bamboo rods from the "Good Old Days"GrangersHeddons and most of the other manufacturers also have a 7 1/2 footLeonardand a 7 1/2 foot T&T by Tom Maxwell. If someone could tell me how tomeasure them I would be glad to supply info. just need firstmeasurementand distance between measurements: Have a sweet 3 pc Heddon 7 1/2 foot; a Heddon 2pc 7 ft and Heddon 71/2ft also a Granger 3 pcs 71/2 Aristocrat. Dick from Central Pa. I do haveadial caliper............Best Dick Richard Nantel wrote: My bamboo arrives Tuesday and I'm not quite decided on a taper forrodnumber one. I have Wayne's and Jack Howell's books (and of courseaccess to the web). Can anyone point me in the direction of a fairlyfast action 3 or 4 weight taper, say about 7 ft long? I'm hoping tobuild a nice dry fly rod for the freestone stream I fish regularly.I'm not sure how to translate stress graphs just yet so I'm finding ittough looking at tapers and trying to imagine how the rod would feel. Many thanks Richard Name: Richard Nantel (E-mail).vcfPart 1.2 Type: unspecified type (application/octet-stream)Encoding: quoted-printable The 7ft 4wt taper by Wayne C. that has beem modified a tad by DarrylH.seems to have won near universal appeal, As yet have seen no postsdetracting from it.A.J.Thramer from tom@cet-inc.com Mon Oct 5 16:48:20 1998 0000 Subject: Re: taper request & Offer to Help Dick,I'd be careful about using a dial caliper on a rod. The relatively sharpedges can very easily make an immpression in the varnish. The larger,flatter anvils of a micrometer are much better for that purpose. Tom Whittle,( from South Central PA) Dick Fogel wrote: just need first measurementand distance between measurements: Have a sweet 3 pc Heddon 7 1/2 foot; a Heddon 2pc 7 ft and Heddon 71/2ft also a Granger 3 pcs 71/2 Aristocrat. Dick from Central Pa. I dohave adial caliper............Best Dick from Fallcreek9@aol.com Mon Oct 5 17:18:30 1998 Subject: V-Block List Members:The V-Block is supplied by John Long @ 313-420-0267 Hope he has a good supply in stock. Regards,RTyree Ps - Mike 'List Guy' said I could do this on the list. from wdjoslin@velocity.net Mon Oct 5 17:23:15 1998 18:24:27 with lastmessage Subject: remove mail list remove mail list wdjoslin@velocity.net ---------- RODMAKERS Digest 1121 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Polyurethane wood glue 2) Re: taper request 3) Southern Rodmakers Gathering 4) Re: Snake guides 5) Re: Gatherings 6) John Zimmey 7) Re: taper request 8) Re: John Zimmey 9) Southern Rodmakers 10) Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey 11) Re: Mica Heat Strips 12) Morgan Mill 13) SRG 1998 pictures on the web 14) Re: Snake guides 15) Re: SRG 1998 pictures on the web 16) RE: SRG 1998 pictures on the web 17) SRG 18) Re: SRG 1998 pictures on the web 19) RE: Mica Heat Strips 20) Re: taper request 21) Re: cork 22) Re: Dial indicator base question #2> by Fallcreek9@aol.com23) Re: taper request & Offer to Help 24) RE: Mica Heat Strips 25) RE: Mica Heat Strips 26) Re: Dial indicator base question #2 from Fallcreek9@aol.com Mon Oct 5 17:30:02 1998 Subject: Wayne Cattanach List: When I first got the burning desire to build bamboo rods, Frank Ehrlicher, afriend at the same stage in the game as I (had the Garrison book but nootherclue), excitedly called me about this neat guy in Michigan who would talkwith him about bamboo rod building. He gave me Wayne's name and numberandencouraged my first call. Wayne talked with me for an hour or more. Waynethen called me two or three times over the next few weeks and talked foranhour or more each time and on his own nickle, always declining my offertohang up and let me call back to share the cost. Those hours ofconversationwere invaluable to me in getting started. He later picked up Frank and meatthe Detriot Airport, hosted us for a day of instruction in his shop andintroduced us to the Southfield Fly Fishing Expo. He then took us back totheairport to see us off and would accept nothing from us for expenses. Becauseof a sour situation I was having with an established bamboo rodmaker, heinsisted I take of the guy's rods that he owned home with me so that Icouldhave a bamboo rod to use while the deal was being straightened out. Andmejust a voice in the wilderness a few weeks before. Later, when I was getting it together, Wayne sold me an oven, to my greatjoy,and at a low price I couldn't believe. He then sent a heat gun that I couldnot find, also at his cost. And the significant amount of time and energyhespent in those endeavors? - No Charge! He has been a selfless help to me and others in this adventure of learninghowto build a bamboo rod and it pains me to hear of comments that are lessthancomplimentary to him. Now multiply all he did for me by the countlessothershe has helped in much the same way at the same cost to him in time andenergy,and the accumulated debt of gratitude is enormous. And there ARE manyothers.Whenever I mention the above experiences of mine, there are alwaysothers whosay they have had similar experiences with Wayne. Just this past week hetraveled to Mt Home to provide free hands-on instructions to several newrodmakers at the Southern Rodmakers Meet, and at his own expenses. Andofcourse, there was no charge to those newcomers who benefited, or for theseveral culms of cane he donated for the exercise. There are several other experienced rodmakers who have gone the extramile fornewcomers to the art who have devoted time, energy and resources to thecause.Several have been a great help to me. They are equally applauded andappreciated for their efforts by me as I am sure they are by all the othersthey have also helped. However, if anyone deserves a round of cheer andapplause, it is Wayne Cattanach. Please folks, there are newcomers being turned off by some of thenegativecontent of the list as of late. Two I personally know of quite recently. Weare fortunate to live in a wonderful age of bamboo rod building. Pleaseletsappreciate the bounty we have here in the list and its members, and toappreciate one another more. Thanks for listening, Richard Tyree from rclarke@eou.edu Mon Oct 5 18:06:01 1998 Subject: Re: Wayne Cattanach Richard, I agree whole heartedly! There are several people on the list whohave bent over backwards to help me out (one just recently sent medetailedinformation via fax from New Zealand, thanks IK). Wayne has been verygenerous to me with his information, as well as Tom Penrose, Sir D., ChrisBogart, Dave LeClair, Ian Kearn, Ralph Moon and several others. You guysare the best! Thanks a bunch. Related to other areas, I just got my little (emphasis on little) rosewoodand brass scraping plane. I will report back to the list as to theusefullness of this little tool, but it seamed to be pretty slick from the5 minutes I had with it at lunch. Probably not nearly as precise as theLie Neison, but very affordable. Again, thanks to the listmembers for being the kind of folks you are. Youmake this obsession a fun one! Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Fallcreek9@aol.com Subject: Wayne CattanachDate: Monday, October 05, 1998 3:29 PM List: Please folks, there are newcomers being turned off by some of thenegativecontent of the list as of late. Two I personally know of quite recently.Weare fortunate to live in a wonderful age of bamboo rod building. Pleaseletsappreciate the bounty we have here in the list and its members, and toappreciate one another more. Thanks for listening, Richard Tyree from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Mon Oct 5 18:06:34 1998 18:06:01 ix16.ix.netcom.comvia smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Dial indicator base question #2 I would like the source Richard. I do think it stinks that the nicemembers of this list feel they have to post information off list to keep from offending a few radicals. And by the way, that was a nice postingabout Wayne. Maybe that will help offset some of the crap that's beenposted lately. Thanks. I looked at the pictures of the SRG that were posted. Looks like y'all hada good time. Wish I could have been there. I will try harder next year. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 12:49 PM 10/5/98 EDT, you wrote:In a message dated 9/29/98 7:00:56 AM Central Daylight Time,TSmithwick@aol.com writes: you put the strip in a caliper or micrometer you are going to bend overtheapex slightly, and again get an inaccurate reading. The only way aroundthisis to have a 60* groove of known depth in the anvil of the mike orcaliper,sothat the apex of the strip becomes irrelevant. This whole businesspresentssome tricky problems of calibration, but adressing them is the only waytoapproach real accuracy. >> List: Such an item exists. It was developed by Bill Waara of Michigan. Toinsure the not commercialization of the list, contact me off-list forsource.I have no $$ interests. Only know I have one, it fits on my dial caliper,andit works like a charm. Richard Tyree from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Mon Oct 5 18:26:40 1998 18:26:07 ix16.ix.netcom.comvia smap (V1.3) Subject: RE: Mica Heat Strips I found a 5K watt/220 VAC general purpose heating element at the localelectrical supply. I used air conditioning duct like Dick has suggestedonly I used 4" and 6". I had to add a 2" aluminum angle over the heatingelement to cut down on radiant heat and I place the rod sections in alength of 1/2" rigid copper pipe to help reduce the radiant heating. I haduneven heating before I added the angle but afterward, it seems prettyuniform. I don't know how accurate the oven controller I have is; I don'thave a thermometer I can test it with. So far it's been calibrated using"this much time at that much temperature is the right shade of brown". Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 11:03 AM 10/5/98 -0400, you wrote:Wayne, Has any one tried to use a regular oven electrical oven element.(Straightened out). Just a thought. Maybe they can not be straightenedout. Does an electronic appliance supply company sell straight ones?Theymake electronic elements for pizza ovens. Are they straight plug inelements??Has any one tried this route. Electric ovens are not rocket science. It seems so simple, its almost too easy. An oven dial from a stove and a few metal hangers from the old oven maywork. Looking for a better way,Dave from stpete@netten.net Mon Oct 5 18:46:34 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA01864 for Subject: Re: Wayne Cattanach Richard, Let me join in the support of Wayne Cattanach's efforts. My first- handexperiences with him are of several e-mails, a discount purchaseopportunity (which I now understand he LOST money on) and time spentwith him at the SRG this past weekend in Ark. My impression of Wayne isthat he is a genuine advocate of perpetuating the craft of bamboorodmaking. I think that in future, Wayne Cattanach will be recognized as THE majorinfluence of the next generation of rodmakers. I am sure it must be asirritating to Wayne to listen to the petty diatribes of the small mindedas is to me. Rick Crenshaw from Turbotrk@aol.com Mon Oct 5 18:52:55 1998 Subject: Re: Wayne Cattanach That negative would be me. I am very disapointed by the list in whole onthismatter. stuart miller from dr_matro@cyberramp.net Mon Oct 5 18:57:23 1998 ESMTP idSAA12235 Subject: Re: Lost I see the the "Late Miles Tiernnen and Wrong Way Cattanach" made ithome. Thanks for making the SRG. Looking forward to Greyrock. Ken Cole from dpeaston@wzrd.com Mon Oct 5 19:17:48 1998 mail.wzrd.com(8.9.1/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA01889 for ;Mon, 5 Oct Subject: Re: Wayne Cattanach At 07:52 PM 10/5/98 EDT, you wrote:That negative would be me. I am very disapointed by the list in whole onthismatter. stuart miller Stuart, I think it would be helpful to us all if you could make your complaintclearly. You may , in fact, be misunderstood this very moment. We need tomove on, but it is difficult when people do not communicate. The list is needn't I worry? Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from lblan@provide.net Mon Oct 5 19:28:04 1998 Subject: RE: Wayne Cattanach Richard (and list);if we were to add up everything that Wayne has donatedtorod-building it would be a long list indeed. The material things Wayne hasprovided are certainly important to those that have received them, butmoreimportantly, consider how many hours of his free time Wayne has freely,andhappily donated. If you recall my e-mail to you concerning "The Force", you may recall thatpayment for the rod was not made in equal dollar value, but in equal time,that irretrievable bit of one's soul that goes into everything that leavesthe shop. I had managed to hold off posting anything, feeling it would not beappropriate. I've been doing a slow burn since I saw the first negativepost. Thanks for sharing your experience's with the list, especially thenew-comers. Let me add my personal thanks to those rodmakers whosenames arenot mentioned, but who have blessed all of us with tiny pieces of theirsouls. Larry Blan from dr_matro@cyberramp.net Mon Oct 5 19:28:16 1998 ESMTP idTAA28767 Subject: Re: SRG List, Just got back in the studio from the Southern Rodmakers Gathering AndFFF Southern Conclave. Had to cut the trip short for flyshopcommitments, but what a great time.Thanks to the following: 1. Harry. Great gathering.2. Tony,Kurt, Leo and the rest of the presentors. Knowledge is power.3. Mrs. & Mr. Demarest, the slideshow and the wonderful cane.4. Charlie, a warm, dry place to crash.5. Wayne C.-Jack Pine Navigator- tthe beginners workshop and thereelseat.6. Everyone who showed up with a rod and generouslylet me cast them.7. Angel Royer, nice piece of cane.8. New friends. Next Year, let's do it again. Ken Cole from saweiss@flash.net Mon Oct 5 19:33:36 1998 Subject: pettyness It seems that as one gets a larger sample of any population its a law ofnature that you encounter more people who are curmudgeons, gripers andA-holes. Don't despair, because at the same time there are that many morenice people. Bamboo rodmakers are no exception. I used to fancy the ideathat flyfishers were all polite, conservation-oriented and never littered.That notion didn't last long, but I still meet many really nice flyfishers,so I haven't given up.The folks on this list, past and present have given me too much of theirhard-earned knowledge for me to get discouraged by a few gripers. Steve Weiss from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Oct 5 19:52:39 1998 Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:52:09 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Wayne Cattanach On Mon, 5 Oct 1998 Turbotrk@aol.com wrote: That negative would be me. I am very disapointed by the list in whole onthismatter. stuart miller ?? /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Oct 5 20:10:23 1998 Subject: Al Medved's beveler Plans To All I put a second set of plans up on my web site tonight. They are Al's original plans that I have scanned, converted, and cleaned up.Again, they are in a PDF file format for all to read. Chris from moucheux@sympatico.ca Mon Oct 5 20:48:04 1998 Subject: Re: Al Medved's beveler Plans Chris Bogart wrote: To All I put a second set of plans up on my web site tonight. They areAl's original plans that I have scanned, converted, and cleaned up.Again, they are in a PDF file format for all to read. Chris_________ Chris, Could I get your web page URL Thanks-- Michel Lajoie from MartynE@aol.com Mon Oct 5 21:05:28 1998 Subject: Re: Al Medved's beveler Plans In a message dated 10/5/98 9:17:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time,cbogart@shentel.net writes: To All I put a second set of plans up on my web site tonight. They are Al's original plans that I have scanned, converted, and cleaned up.Again, they are in a PDF file format for all to read. Chris Chris,I may be amongst the unknowing, but what is your URL?TIA,Martyn from stpete@netten.net Mon Oct 5 21:06:49 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA18692 for Subject: SRG Just wanted to say thanks to Harry Boyd for his efforts which made FIRSTSouthern Rodmakers Gathering both a reality AND a success. Also a special thanks to Wayne Cattanach and Miles Tiernan for making itall the way down from MI. And to Harold and Eileen Demarest for theirtime and expertise. Their combined experience and knowledge may be thelikes of which we won't see again. Also thanks to all the other demonstrators: Leo Eck, Richard Tyree, KurtLoup, Tony Spezio, Bill Lamberson. Ken Cole, thanks for the burgers. I don't want to scare anyone away from next years gathering, so I won'tTELL you that I'll be there (although I will!) Rick Crenshaw from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Oct 5 21:18:33 1998 Subject: Re: Snake guides-Case Hardening If any one is interested in hardening there steel blocks for flattening guide feet, call Brownell's Gunsmith Supplies at 515-623-5401 . Request a catalog, I don't remember the price, but it's worth it. They sell a lot of STUFF that we can use. Get some Kasenite Case Hardening Compound and follow the directions. This will harden your blocks and keep them from deforming when flattening feet. Dave LeClair from djfinch@sprintmail.com Mon Oct 5 21:38:38 1998 TAA16949 Subject: Wayne Cattanach Dear Richard ,thanks for sharing your story with us. I am a newbie andhave been watching the list gathering information ,and getting my toolsset up and trying to get a basic grip of what rod to do first.I willadmit when I see a Wayne post I'll read it first !Thanks Wayne! As forthe bad stuff on the list of late, I will not let it get under my skin.I hope the two people you mentioned will have a change of heart andpursue this craft of cane rod building. I would like to thank everyoneon the list for all the information the have gave for the last year orso..good or bad. "To have the knowledge and not to share it is a wasteof the knowledge" Thanks Greg. from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Oct 5 22:11:43 1998 Subject: AutoPlane Sketch Attached is a sketch of the add on to Tom's mill - the idea was to keep itassimple as possible - in other words relay logic - not DDC - but it could beifyou like. The operation is that sw-1 controls forward and reverse movement -when aend switch is contacted all stops - to move again sw-1 is moved to theopposite contact set. If the movement is reverse - a solenoid activates tolift the cutter head as it is drawn back to the start position. If the switchis placed to off during midpoint travel it can be started again in either areverse or forward direction.I went through the Grainger catalog today and found that the controlswould be about $750 - the end pulleys and the drum with be extra. Because I wore the hat once I just happen to have all the illustratedparts in the ol' basement - the circuit works a 35 rpm gearmotor willpractically drag my workbench accross the floor - it supposedly has 100in lbsof torgue. In closing I would like to say how much I have enjoyed the years here -upto the recent days though - I and my friends have been slammed by folksthatare just looking for us all to slip or say something wrong or whatever. Ihavehad my fill of it - perhaps my attitude is from the long weekend drive anditmay change when I cool down. Earlier today I was talking with Mike aboutshutting this list down and creating an invitation only list to replace it. Itmay happen or it may not - I am just sick of the body slams to me and myfriends. I'm Out Of Here Wayne To - Johnny Johnson - Georgia & Others Like HimI do hope you are happy with yourself from lblan@provide.net Mon Oct 5 22:26:35 1998 Subject: RE: AutoPlane Sketch Wow.... but yeah, I agree..... it's a bunch of crap..... I can only imaginethe posts you have received privately.... Off to Alpena this weekend for a cross country invitational.. You take care... I'll call you next week.. -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu WayneCatt@aol.comSent: Monday, October 05, 1998 11:11 PM Subject: AutoPlane Sketch Attached is a sketch of the add on to Tom's mill - the idea wasto keep it assimple as possible - in other words relay logic - not DDC - butit could be ifyou like. The operation is that sw-1 controls forward and reversemovement - when aend switch is contacted all stops - to move again sw-1 is moved to theopposite contact set. If the movement is reverse - a solenoid activatestolift the cutter head as it is drawn back to the start position.If the switchis placed to off during midpoint travel it can be started againin either areverse or forward direction.I went through the Grainger catalog today and found that the controlswould be about $750 - the end pulleys and the drum with be extra.Because I wore the hat once I just happen to have all the illustratedparts in the ol' basement - the circuit works a 35 rpm gearmotor willpractically drag my workbench accross the floor - it supposedlyhas 100 in lbsof torgue. In closing I would like to say how much I have enjoyed theyears here - upto the recent days though - I and my friends have been slammed byfolks thatare just looking for us all to slip or say something wrong orwhatever. I havehad my fill of it - perhaps my attitude is from the long weekenddrive and itmay change when I cool down. Earlier today I was talking with Mikeaboutshutting this list down and creating an invitation only list toreplace it. Itmay happen or it may not - I am just sick of the body slams to me and myfriends. I'm Out Of Here Wayne To - Johnny Johnson - Georgia & Others Like HimI do hope you are happy with yourself from KDLoup@aol.com Mon Oct 5 22:33:34 1998 Subject: Re: Mica Heat Strips/oven element Dave,I use an oven element in my oven. The element was custom ordered in a50" length. The local supply house also provided the appropriatethermostat.The set cost about $110. Kurt Loup from jkallo@midwest.net Mon Oct 5 22:33:40 1998 Subject: bodied scraper Hello all,Not trying to change the subject or anything. This recent crapdirected atWayne is known by all to be pure stupidity--by all excepting the offendersthat is. Not much for me to do besides go back to planing. So... Will someone tell me a simple way to make a bodied scaper. Wayne, ifyourstill out there, the directions in your new manuscript were good, butlacking a picture I am still a little in the dark. Is the basic idea to geta little rectagular box with a slot in the middle to accomodate the bladeand a wedge? This would leave the blade perpendicular to the strip; thepictures I've seen of the Lie- Nielson show the blade at a slight angle(though they are adjustable). I looked at three of the damn things at SRG,but I wasn't counting on making one soon and didn't look well enough. Asfar as blades, what would be a good thing to use? If I can round up an old(good steel) plane blade, will this work? Or should I chisel one from agood saw blade? If a plane blade will work, I'll just build the body to theblade's dimensions (thanks again Wayne...). Thanks for the help. Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from MaryKay01@worldnet.att.net Mon Oct 5 22:48:10 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP Subject: Re: SRG 1998 pictures on the web Rich Jezioro wrote: Thanks for the pictures. Makes me vow to try harder to get there nextyear.Rich Jezioro At 11:42 PM 10/4/98 -0500, you wrote:SRG attendees and all Listers: Here are some pictures from the Southern Rodmakers Gathering(primarilydone for those who need to prove to their significant others where thehell they've been for the last few days). God bless Harry Boyd. (Wait . . . that comes with his territory).Apologies to faces I couldn't put a name to and names misspelled. Lotsof pictures - I tried to make it load as quickly as possible. Next yearyou gotta be there. Here's the address:http://www.mindspring.com/~ccurrojr/Srg98/srg1.html PS - The truth about Cattanach & Tiernan will out soon. Verily - a JackPine Journey. *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@ /||/______/_||_________________________________________||/\/ \ > > / \ >Rich, Good way to get together again. Than you could head to Texas and hook ared with me! Mark from MaryKay01@worldnet.att.net Mon Oct 5 22:54:58 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP Subject: Re: Wayne Cattanach I as well have had the pleasure to work with and learn from Wayne. Seems each time I need that piece or part Santa Cattanach has been thereto help me.Mark Hallowell Larry Blan wrote: Richard (and list);if we were to add up everything that Wayne hasdonated torod-building it would be a long list indeed. The material things Waynehasprovided are certainly important to those that have received them, butmoreimportantly, consider how many hours of his free time Wayne has freely,andhappily donated. If you recall my e-mail to you concerning "The Force", you may recallthatpayment for the rod was not made in equal dollar value, but in equaltime,that irretrievable bit of one's soul that goes into everything that leavesthe shop. I had managed to hold off posting anything, feeling it would not beappropriate. I've been doing a slow burn since I saw the first negativepost. Thanks for sharing your experience's with the list, especially thenew-comers. Let me add my personal thanks to those rodmakers whosenames arenot mentioned, but who have blessed all of us with tiny pieces of theirsouls. Larry Blan from MaryKay01@worldnet.att.net Mon Oct 5 22:58:29 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP Subject: Re: AutoPlane Sketch WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: Attached is a sketch of the add on to Tom's mill - the idea was to keepit assimple as possible - in other words relay logic - not DDC - but it couldbe ifyou like. The operation is that sw-1 controls forward and reverse movement -when aend switch is contacted all stops - to move again sw-1 is moved to theopposite contact set. If the movement is reverse - a solenoid activatestolift the cutter head as it is drawn back to the start position. If theswitchis placed to off during midpoint travel it can be started again in either areverse or forward direction.I went through the Grainger catalog today and found that the controlswould be about $750 - the end pulleys and the drum with be extra.Because I wore the hat once I just happen to have all the illustratedparts in the ol' basement - the circuit works a 35 rpm gearmotor willpractically drag my workbench accross the floor - it supposedly has 100in lbsof torgue. In closing I would like to say how much I have enjoyed the years here- upto the recent days though - I and my friends have been slammed by folksthatare just looking for us all to slip or say something wrong or whatever. Ihavehad my fill of it - perhaps my attitude is from the long weekend driveand itmay change when I cool down. Earlier today I was talking with Mikeaboutshutting this list down and creating an invitation only list to replace it.Itmay happen or it may not - I am just sick of the body slams to me and myfriends. I'm Out Of Here Wayne To - Johnny Johnson - Georgia & Others Like HimI do hope you are happy with yourself Wayne Did you attach the Plan? Mark Hallowell from stpete@netten.net Mon Oct 5 22:59:29 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA01248 for Subject: Re: bodied scraper Joe, Sorry you didn't ask this at the SRG. You missed Kurt Loup's demo onFriday. He not only gave out directions on how to build a bodiedscraper, he actually handed out several kits to those interested inmaking one. Kurt tells me he did an article for Bamboo Rod Magazinewith one of his scrapers. Perhaps it'll get published. (Kurt heardanything on that?) In the meantime, if you come to Memphis, I'll showyou my Loup Scraper. If you e-mail me with your snail mail address,I'll send you Kurt's instructions and a photo. Rick Crenshawstpete@netten.net901-682-8626Joseph S.Kallo wrote: Hello all,Not trying to change the subject or anything. This recent crapdirectedatWayne is known by all to be pure stupidity--by all excepting theoffendersthat is. Not much for me to do besides go back to planing. So... Will someone tell me a simple way to make a bodied scaper. Wayne,ifyourstill out there, the directions in your new manuscript were good, butlacking a picture I am still a little in the dark. Is the basic idea to geta little rectagular box with a slot in the middle to accomodate the bladeand a wedge? This would leave the blade perpendicular to the strip; thepictures I've seen of the Lie- Nielson show the blade at a slight angle(though they are adjustable). I looked at three of the damn things at SRG,but I wasn't counting on making one soon and didn't look well enough. Asfar as blades, what would be a good thing to use? If I can round up an old(good steel) plane blade, will this work? Or should I chisel one from agood saw blade? If a plane blade will work, I'll just build the body to theblade's dimensions (thanks again Wayne...). Thanks for the help. Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from drinkr@voicenet.com Mon Oct 5 23:05:34 1998 0000 (207.103.119.160) Subject: RE: AutoPlane Sketch I am reading through piles of messages on this list and wondering why thelevel of discourse has dropped to this point. The thought of losing Wayne'sinput as a result is a tough pill to swallow. My main reason for persistingthrough the beginning stages of rodmaking is based on my weekendseminarwith him. Im sure that I would not have any trouble reaching Wayne athome all on the list would be an unfortunate result. One consolation is thatduring all of the recent forays in to silliness on the listserver I managedto delete the useless dribble without reading much at all. The usefulinformation still rises above all of the nonsense and is the main reason Ienjoy weeding through hundreds of E-mails on this subject. Dave Rinker -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu WayneCatt@aol.comSent: Monday, October 05, 1998 11:11 PM Subject: AutoPlane Sketch Attached is a sketch of the add on to Tom's mill - the idea wasto keep it assimple as possible - in other words relay logic - not DDC - butit could be ifyou like. The operation is that sw-1 controls forward and reversemovement - when aend switch is contacted all stops - to move again sw-1 is moved to theopposite contact set. If the movement is reverse - a solenoid activatestolift the cutter head as it is drawn back to the start position.If the switchis placed to off during midpoint travel it can be started againin either areverse or forward direction.I went through the Grainger catalog today and found that the controlswould be about $750 - the end pulleys and the drum with be extra.Because I wore the hat once I just happen to have all the illustratedparts in the ol' basement - the circuit works a 35 rpm gearmotor willpractically drag my workbench accross the floor - it supposedlyhas 100 in lbsof torgue. In closing I would like to say how much I have enjoyed theyears here - upto the recent days though - I and my friends have been slammed byfolks thatare just looking for us all to slip or say something wrong orwhatever. I havehad my fill of it - perhaps my attitude is from the long weekenddrive and itmay change when I cool down. Earlier today I was talking with Mikeaboutshutting this list down and creating an invitation only list toreplace it. Itmay happen or it may not - I am just sick of the body slams to me and myfriends. I'm Out Of Here Wayne To - Johnny Johnson - Georgia & Others Like HimI do hope you are happy with yourself from swilson1@WHC.NET Mon Oct 5 23:11:24 1998 ; Subject: Petty behavior I rarely write to the list, but the recent body slams are definitelygetting out of control. A couple of years ago, I called Wayne Cattanachseeking advice (I felt this was pretty brazen, as I was a total strangerseeking free advice). Wayne spent considerable time talking with me andeven sent me a couple of contact points (at his expense). This ispretty generous treatment for a stranger. Wayne has done a lot for thishobby and definitely does not deserve the wrath of most (or any) peopleon this list. I have been on the list for a fairly short time, but haveenjoyed Darryl Hayashida's knowledge often; he too, has been crucified Scott Wilson from tbeckfam@pacbell.net Mon Oct 5 23:50:43 1998 mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id VAA10456 for Subject: Re: Dial indicator base question #2 Dr. Steven A. Weiss wrote: -----Original Message-----From: Fallcreek9@aol.com Date: Monday, October 05, 1998 10:56 AMSubject: Re: Dial indicator base question #2 In a message dated 9/29/98 7:00:56 AM Central Daylight Time,TSmithwick@aol.com writes: Ifyou put the strip in a caliper or micrometer you are going to bend overtheapex slightly, and again get an inaccurate reading. The only way aroundthisis to have a 60* groove of known depth in the anvil of the mike orcaliper,sothat the apex of the strip becomes irrelevant. This whole businesspresentssome tricky problems of calibration, but adressing them is the onlyway toapproach real accuracy. >> List: Such an item exists. It was developed by Bill Waara of Michigan.Toinsure the not commercialization of the list, contact me off-list forsource.I have no $$ interests. Only know I have one, it fits on my dial caliper,andit works like a charm. Richard Tyree Richard.IMHO, there is nothing wrong with posting this kin of info on the list.However, if you think it's not pc, I would appreciate getting it off- list.Thanks,Steve Weiss (saweiss@flash.net) I used a straight tubular element in mine. It's 110v and about 1000w.It heats up very fast but it still takes awhile for the temp. to evenout. I was REALLY lucky and found an industrial heat control at a junkyard. It works great. I can calibrate it to my Thermometer and it stayswithin about 2 degrees of my desired setting. Traver Becker from maxs@geocities.co.jp Tue Oct 6 00:01:02 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA26259 for; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 14:00:56 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: AutoPlane Sketch To Mr. Wayne Cattanach, Please stay here or come back after you cool down. We surely need you.You have a duty to develop the young as a pioneer like Garrison did. Otherwise, this culture will shrink in a long range. We should have such a committee in the list, who will make judgement ofrecommendingto go out of the list when someone violate a basic rule. The rule should not be so simple like whether or not it relates to acommercialism but whether or not the opinion is helping, sharing,thanking, contributing and developping the ideas of rod building, andthis is the most important, "IS BASED ON A COMMON SENSE". I have been watching the happenings in the list these days, thetriggered bad image all does not havethis common sense. All of us probably are thinking to make or savemore or less money related to rod building. Some one would like to sellown rods. Some would like to purchase materials or tools as reasonableas possible. All the ideas posted on the list are valuable, in otherwords, its owner has a right to charge, if he so desires. But most ofthem does not charge to the ideas, tapers, joining the list etc.. Weare all owing them for such valuable things. Why can you criticize a commercialism?. The wrong thing is to try tosell it in the list FOR HIS OWN BENEFITS. Informing OTHERS the sourceof the better price, surveying your ideas for a better idea, it shouldbe welcomed. "Whether or not commercial related is not important. It is importantwhether or not it is going to help someone even if it is related with commercial matters." Those who do not understand this should go out of the list. In every chat room, successful one has a coordinator or a conductor ofthe room. Otherwise, as someone told before, the communication by onlywritten statements will cause some bad ideas, easy to say off, attackinga specific person and sometimes forget oneself in the environment. We all owe many things to the list, especially to the experiencedpeople, not only rod builders but other tool/parts makers too. We havenothing other than learning from them. We have to thank them that theyaccepted us in this list. Why we can say such a critisizing word thosewho accepted us? When we can be eligible to advise to others, we can talk about a subjectto each other. It's a common sense. Why can you so critical to otherswithout contributing to others? After several advises based on the common sense, if the saying is notchanged, he should go out ofthis world. The list people of common sense should also forgivesomeone's fault when it is corrected or appologized, since he mustunderstand the rule. When not corrected, advise him toget out! I especially want to get back such most important builders to the list,who recently don't show up these days. Wayne, Sir D...(sorry I am missing more names)Otherwise, there is less meaning for the list to exist.. Then we losethe light.....do it yourself......can you do it? Thanks for reading. Max WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: Attached is a sketch of the add on to Tom's mill - the idea was to keepit assimple as possible - in other words relay logic - not DDC - but it couldbe ifyou like. The operation is that sw-1 controls forward and reverse movement -when aend switch is contacted all stops - to move again sw-1 is moved to theopposite contact set. If the movement is reverse - a solenoid activatestolift the cutter head as it is drawn back to the start position. If theswitchis placed to off during midpoint travel it can be started again in either areverse or forward direction.I went through the Grainger catalog today and found that the controlswould be about $750 - the end pulleys and the drum with be extra.Because I wore the hat once I just happen to have all the illustratedparts in the ol' basement - the circuit works a 35 rpm gearmotor willpractically drag my workbench accross the floor - it supposedly has 100in lbsof torgue. In closing I would like to say how much I have enjoyed the years here- upto the recent days though - I and my friends have been slammed by folksthatare just looking for us all to slip or say something wrong or whatever. Ihavehad my fill of it - perhaps my attitude is from the long weekend driveand itmay change when I cool down. Earlier today I was talking with Mikeaboutshutting this list down and creating an invitation only list to replace it.Itmay happen or it may not - I am just sick of the body slams to me and myfriends. I'm Out Of Here Wayne To - Johnny Johnson - Georgia & Others Like HimI do hope you are happy with yourself from tbeckfam@pacbell.net Tue Oct 6 00:18:00 1998 mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id WAA19393 for Subject: Re: Dial indicator base question #2 Traver Becker wrote: Dr. Steven A. Weiss wrote: -----Original Message-----From: Fallcreek9@aol.com Date: Monday, October 05, 1998 10:56 AMSubject: Re: Dial indicator base question #2 In a message dated 9/29/98 7:00:56 AM Central Daylight Time,TSmithwick@aol.com writes: Ifyou put the strip in a caliper or micrometer you are going to bendovertheapex slightly, and again get an inaccurate reading. The only wayaroundthisis to have a 60* groove of known depth in the anvil of the mike orcaliper,sothat the apex of the strip becomes irrelevant. This whole businesspresentssome tricky problems of calibration, but adressing them is the onlyway toapproach real accuracy. >> List: Such an item exists. It was developed by Bill Waara of Michigan.Toinsure the not commercialization of the list, contact me off-list forsource.I have no $$ interests. Only know I have one, it fits on my dial caliper,andit works like a charm. Richard Tyree Richard.IMHO, there is nothing wrong with posting this kin of info on the list.However, if you think it's not pc, I would appreciate getting it off- list.Thanks,Steve Weiss (saweiss@flash.net) I used a straight tubular element in mine. It's 110v and about 1000w.It heats up very fast but it still takes awhile for the temp. to evenout. I was REALLY lucky and found an industrial heat control at a junkyard. It works great. I can calibrate it to my Thermometer and it stayswithin about 2 degrees of my desired setting. Traver BeckerThis message was supposed to be attatched to the "oven Thread" oops Ihit the wrong button!Traver Becker from chris@artistree.com Tue Oct 6 03:47:51 1998 BAA04752 Subject: Granger Tapers? Dear List,Does anyone have the tapers & possibly guide spacings for a GrangerFavorite 9' 3 piece and/or a Granger Champion 9' 3 piece?Have a special request for these two particular rods and I sure coulduse any help I could get.--Thanks & Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from rcurry@top.monad.net Tue Oct 6 06:22:58 1998 Subject: Goodbye, Wayne, see you in June Wayne,I tried to contact you off list, but your aol address bouncedme; I hope you see this.I've noticed the list seriously degrading of late and attributed it tothe "Silly Season"; that time of year when the streams are too low tofish and the demands of the household don't permit other pursuits.Perhaps I'm wrong. I'll step off the list as well; it isoffering nothing to me, and I don't have the depth that you do that Ican draw sufficient water for others.It's been fun. Of course, there is still Grayrock. Thanks foreverything.Best regards,Reed from saltwein@swbell.net Tue Oct 6 06:38:39 1998 gw3adm.rcsntx.swbell.net GAA14058 Subject: Re: Petty behavior Scott Wilson wrote: I rarely write to the list, but the recent body slams are definitelygetting out of control. A couple of years ago, I called Wayne Cattanachseeking advice (I felt this was pretty brazen, as I was a total strangerseeking free advice). Wayne spent considerable time talking with me andeven sent me a couple of contact points (at his expense). This ispretty generous treatment for a stranger. Wayne has done a lot for thishobby and definitely does not deserve the wrath of most (or any) peopleon this list. I have been on the list for a fairly short time, but haveenjoyed Darryl Hayashida's knowledge often; he too, has been crucified Scott Wilson I have been on this list two years now and hate to see it breaking down.I wouldn't have finished a rod without it. I must be getting reallygood with the delete button because I didn't see the posts in question,I don't care to see them. I can't imagine blasting anyone who has done what Wayne and others haveto help individuals on this list, but that is just me, society is ajumble and you will find all types participating in any open forum. I will be very disappointed if Wayne leaves the list. It is one thingto say hit the delete button and quite another for the target of anyderisive remarks to invite them into his home, so I understand hisfeelings. I personally don't think an invitation only list serves thepurpose of opening information to new people who want to learn thiscraft. Wayne I would like to personally thank you for the info, supplies, andgenerally good advice that I have garnered from you over the last twoyears. Disappointed in Independence,Regards, Steve from geraldb@pennwell.com Tue Oct 6 07:35:33 1998 (5.0.1460.8) Subject: That old BLACK magic Remember way back, one of my first postings to the list was about a nastyblack finish on a split bamboo rod? Well, I took several people's good advice and took to scraping the god- awfulstuff off the rod with a REAL scraper and not the goofy little "toy" one Iwas using. I finished a whole tip last night and it's wonderful! This rodstill has some beauty and life in it thanks to the list. Despite all the wanking and bitchiness this list is making my world abetterplace ;-) GB from rmoon@ida.net Tue Oct 6 07:58:18 1998 Subject: Re: Max Satoh's Post on Monday Max BINGO (Domo Arigato)Ralph from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Tue Oct 6 08:04:40 1998 (modemcable70.174.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: AutoPlane Sketch The people who have been complaining lately are a small minority ofmemberson this list. It would be a shame to shut this list down or see thedeparture of veteran and helpful members because of a few individuals. If you choose to begin a list by invitation, please consider adding my name. Richard Nantel -----Original Message----- WayneCatt@aol.com Subject: AutoPlane Sketch Attached is a sketch of the add on to Tom's mill - the idea was to keep itassimple as possible - in other words relay logic - not DDC - but it could beifyou like. The operation is that sw-1 controls forward and reverse movement - whenaend switch is contacted all stops - to move again sw-1 is moved to theopposite contact set. If the movement is reverse - a solenoid activates tolift the cutter head as it is drawn back to the start position. If theswitchis placed to off during midpoint travel it can be started again in either areverse or forward direction.I went through the Grainger catalog today and found that the controlswould be about $750 - the end pulleys and the drum with be extra.Because I wore the hat once I just happen to have all the illustratedparts in the ol' basement - the circuit works a 35 rpm gearmotor willpractically drag my workbench accross the floor - it supposedly has 100inlbsof torgue. In closing I would like to say how much I have enjoyed the years here -upto the recent days though - I and my friends have been slammed by folksthatare just looking for us all to slip or say something wrong or whatever. Ihavehad my fill of it - perhaps my attitude is from the long weekend drive anditmay change when I cool down. Earlier today I was talking with Mike aboutshutting this list down and creating an invitation only list to replace it.Itmay happen or it may not - I am just sick of the body slams to me and myfriends. I'm Out Of Here Wayne To - Johnny Johnson - Georgia & Others Like HimI do hope you are happy with yourself from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Tue Oct 6 08:41:58 1998 post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id OAA17359 for; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 14:47:15 +0100 Subject: Re: The possible loss of Wayne boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00DC_01BDF137.42C76120" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00DC_01BDF137.42C76120 The world is REALLY turning upside down if someone of theINTERNATIONAL =doyen stature of Wayne can be driven off the list by anyone who is =insensitive, ungrateful, and downright STUPID enough to make snide =remarks about one of rod-making's kindest people. I didn't see the original offending mailings, but whatever they said, =they offended. Now for Christ's sake, have the common sense and the good manners to =apologise, and ask Wayne to stay. If Wayne goes, I'm going too. No matter at all. But if Sir Darryl, and =Thramer, and LeClair, et al are eventually so cross with the bad manners =that THEY also resign (and it's quite obvious that some of the best =makers are getting downright fed-up with the unpleasantness of late) =then the list will offer only a thin shadow of its original connection =between folks who need to know (like me) and sources of professional =excellence (like Wayne). Here in England the craft is shrouded in mystery and professional =jealousy. Members who jeopardise the invaluable, selfless, open, forum =that is the rodmakers list, should be bloody well ashamed of themselves. John Cooper (England)-----Original Message-----From: WayneCatt@aol.com Date: 06 October 1998 04:20Subject: AutoPlane Sketch Attached is a sketch of the add on to Tom's mill - the idea was to =keep it assimple as possible - in other words relay logic - not DDC - but it =could be ifyou like. The operation is that sw-1 controls forward and reverse movement =- when aend switch is contacted all stops - to move again sw-1 is moved to =theopposite contact set. If the movement is reverse - a solenoid =activates tolift the cutter head as it is drawn back to the start position. If =the switchis placed to off during midpoint travel it can be started again in =either areverse or forward direction.I went through the Grainger catalog today and found that the =controls Because I wore the hat once I just happen to have all the =illustratedparts in the ol' basement - the circuit works a 35 rpm gearmotor =willpractically drag my workbench accross the floor - it supposedly has =100 in lbsof torgue. In closing I would like to say how much I have enjoyed the years =here - upto the recent days though - I and my friends have been slammed by =folks thatare just looking for us all to slip or say something wrong or =whatever. I havehad my fill of it - perhaps my attitude is from the long weekend =drive and itmay change when I cool down. Earlier today I was talking with Mike =aboutshutting this list down and creating an invitation only list to =replace it. Itmay happen or it may not - I am just sick of the body slams to me =and myfriends. I'm Out Of Here Wayne To - Johnny Johnson - Georgia & Others Like Him ------=_NextPart_000_00DC_01BDF137.42C76120 The world is REALLY turningupside = someone of the INTERNATIONAL doyen stature of Wayne can be driven off = = snide remarks about one of rod-making's kindest people. I didn't see the original offending mailings, but = they said, they offended. Now for Christ's sake, have the common sense andthe = manners to apologise, and ask Wayne to stay. If Wayne goes, I'm going too. No matter at all. But = Darryl, and Thramer, and LeClair, et al are eventually so cross with the = manners that THEY also resign (and it's quite obvious that some of the = makers are getting downright fed-up with the unpleasantness of late) = list will offer only a thin shadow of its original connection between = Wayne). Here in England the craft is shrouded in mystery and= professional jealousy. Members who = invaluable, selfless, open, forum that is the rodmakers list, should be = well ashamed of themselves. John Cooper (England) -----Original = WayneCatt@aol.com = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= SketchAttached is a sketch of the add on to = - the idea was to keep it assimple as possible - in other words = logic - not DDC - but it could be ifyou = The operation is that sw-1 controls forward and reverse movement - = aend switch is contacted all stops - to move again sw-1 is moved = theopposite contact set. If the movement is reverse - a solenoid = activates tolift the cutter head as it is drawn back to the = position. If the switchis placed to off during midpoint travel = and found that the controlswould be about $750 - the end pulleys = just happen to have all the illustratedparts in the ol' basement = circuit works a 35 rpm gearmotor willpractically drag my = have enjoyed the years here - upto the recent days though - I = friends have been slammed by folks thatare just looking for us = slip or say something wrong or whatever. I havehad my fill of it = perhaps my attitude is from the long weekend drive and itmay = I cool down. Earlier today I was talking with Mike aboutshutting = list down and creating an invitation only list to replace it. = myfriends.I'm Out Of HereWayneTo - = ------=_NextPart_000_00DC_01BDF137.42C76120-- from maxs@geocities.co.jp Tue Oct 6 08:51:25 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA28618 for; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 22:51:20 +0900 (JST) Subject: The truth of Guide Spacing Hello list, We must have many ideas which we believe them without doubt. Ithappenssince we started learning rod building with none of knowledge about itand remeber it without doubt. How about discussing those items? One of those things for me is guide spacing. I looked at severaldocuments which shows guide spacing like ( from tip top) 4" 9" 15" 21"...etc.. Some tapers on Rodmakers web also has guide spacing. Until now Ijust followed to it when mounting guides. Is there anyone who can scientifically explain this rule? Or how do youthink about it?Have you experienced that fly line was going out in between two snakeguides at the top portion of the tip? I have many times. Is there any in fron of me, so frustrated because of the line trouble. Or guide spacing should consider the beauty of the balance?How many snake guides to be used on a certain length of the rod?Is there any reliable explanation about this? Appreciate the opinions. Max -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from maxs@geocities.co.jp Tue Oct 6 08:56:48 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA03912 for; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 22:56:45 +0900 (JST) Subject: Rod balance about the cork handle, reel seat Hello list, When I made Jim Payne 200 rod, the cork hanld seemed to be a littlesmall. And the rod balance when hold it seemed a little heavier at front.Is there any decipline to decide the location of the cork handle and/orthe length, kind of, the weight of the reel seat? How are you deciding the balance, length of the cork handle?Appreciate your opinion. Max -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from arnold_jeff@hotmail.com Tue Oct 6 09:18:14 1998 Tue, 06 Oct 1998 07:17:34 PDT Subject: Helpful Hints List, On Monday I read several messages that concerned snake guide making. All of the messages have been very helpful. While reading these messages, I thought how unique this list is for not only learning new techniques but for learning about "people". People that are excited and willing to share some information, provide helpful hints on subjects that are being discussed. This list has provided me (as well as many others) the chance to learn more about rodmaking and meet many new friends. Without this list I doubt that I would have had the oppurtunity to hear Max Satoh's perspective on snake guide making. I doubt that I would have meet a very good friend who lives just a short distance away. We meet due to postings on this list and our interest in bamboo fly rodmaking. I understand Wayne, Mike, and others being upset and frustrated with the recent posts on the list, and to them I say thank you for your efforts. If there is a list that spins off of this one I would like to be considered for it. I would hate to miss out on not only receiving more good information, but also the chance to provide good information. Jeff ArnoldHamilton, OH ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from jjohnso4@bellsouth.net Tue Oct 6 09:29:20 1998 KAA27329 Subject: Apology - Was: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey Hi folks, I'd like to apologize to the members of the List for "stirring the pot"with my message last week. My comments were meant to be solely insupportof Darryl and were not meant to disparage Mr. Cattanach in any way. I'msorry that they were interpreted otherwise. Johnny ----------------------------------------------Johnny JohnsonLilburn, GA from sniderja@email.uc.edu Tue Oct 6 09:34:18 1998 Subject: good post, Jeff from FlyTyr@southshore.com Tue Oct 6 09:34:28 1998 (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA18101 for ;Tue, 6 Oct1998 09:35:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Wayne Cattanach Richard and all,Amen to that.I am new on the list and was ready to dump it, I saw the remarks aboutWayne andheld back posting a reply. If it were not for Wayne I would not have all ofmytools and equipment made. He sat with me and convinced me I could do it.Will not go further with this,Thanks Wayne.Tony Tony Flytyr@southshore.com Fallcreek9@aol.com wrote: List: There are several other experienced rodmakers who have gone the extramile fornewcomers to the art who have devoted time, energy and resources tothe cause.Several have been a great help to me. They are equally applauded andappreciated for their efforts by me as I am sure they are by all theothersthey have also helped. However, if anyone deserves a round of cheer andapplause, it is Wayne Cattanach. Please folks, there are newcomers being turned off by some of thenegativecontent of the list as of late. Two I personally know of quite recently. Weare fortunate to live in a wonderful age of bamboo rod building. Pleaseletsappreciate the bounty we have here in the list and its members, and toappreciate one another more. Thanks for listening,Richard Tyree from moucheux@sympatico.ca Tue Oct 6 09:56:19 1998 Subject: Invitation list Hi, I am a lurker on this list and I really enjoy the information that I get from it.If you guys decide to have a list by invitation only, please could youcount me in. Thanks in advance.... -- Michel Lajoie from robert.kope@MCI2000.com Tue Oct 6 10:10:21 1998 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 15:09:46 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: The truth of Guide Spacing Max, There has been some discussion of this topic on the list, but I think it wasrecent enough that it may not be in the archives yet. Either that or else Irecently read it in the archives. Hard to tell with my memory. I don't know of any scientific basis for guide spacing or the number ofguides. There is a gereral rule that you should use one more guide than thelength of the rod in feet. For example a 7 foot rod should have 8 guides inadition to the tip top. Sir D. did some experimenting and found that hecouldn't really tell any difference in the way the rod cast if he used fewerguides, as long as he didn't go too low. I suspect that you are correctabout more guides, or closer spacing, reducing the risk of the line bellyingout between the guides, but more guides also means more friction whenyouare shooting line, and more weight on the rod. I think guide spacing is mostly a matter of aesthetics (what looks good).There has been some discussion that the guides should be spaced so whentherod is bent, the distance between the line and the rod is the same for eachpair of guides. Because the tip is more flexible, this will put the guidescloser together near the tip. You could also argue that, if you want theforce of the line on the guides to be equal, the guides should be spaced sothe angle, formed by the line at each guide, is the same. The problem with these theories is that as the force applied to the rodchanges, the curvature of the rod changes. When you are playing a largefish, and there is a lot of force applied, most of the bending occurs towardthe butt of the rod, while the tip is pointed almost directly at the fishand hardly bends at all. So the question is: when should the forces beoptimized? Should it be for casting the design weight line for the designdistance, or should it be for the anticipated maximum stress the rod islikely to see? I think it basically come down to what looks right. Though I haven't usedit, I believe that Wayne's program calculates a constant increment. Thatis, the difference between the distance from the tip top to guide 1 and thedistance from 1 to 2, is the same as the difference between the distances from 1 to 2 and 2 to 3. This provides a simple rule that will give youconsistent spacing as long as you can work around the ferrules. That'sabout all you can hope for. my $.02, Robert Kope -----Original Message----- Subject: The truth of Guide Spacing Hello list, We must have many ideas which we believe them without doubt. Ithappenssince we started learning rod building with none of knowledge about itand remeber it without doubt. How about discussing those items? One of those things for me is guide spacing. I looked at severaldocuments which shows guide spacing like ( from tip top) 4" 9" 15" 21"...etc.. Some tapers on Rodmakers web also has guide spacing. Until now Ijust followed to it when mounting guides. Is there anyone who can scientifically explain this rule? Or how do youthink about it?Have you experienced that fly line was going out in between two snakeguides at the top portion of the tip? I have many times. Is there any in fron of me, so frustrated because of the line trouble. Or guide spacing should consider the beauty of the balance?How many snake guides to be used on a certain length of the rod?Is there any reliable explanation about this? Appreciate the opinions. Max --Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Tue Oct 6 10:13:59 1998 0400 Subject: Invitation only I too would like to be included on an "invitation only" list - theproblem is, how are you going to know whom to invite? So many of us arequietly grateful for this resource and hope someday to have something ofour own to contribute. (Wayne, I do think you are somewhatover-reacting to Johnny Johnson's post, which I did not read as acriticism of you; rather, I thought he was citing you as an example ofacceptable practice.) I much prefer Max Satoh's excellent suggestion ofa committee or coordinator to warn and then if necessary eject thosewhose chief contribution is ill will or bad manners. My own philosophyhas been that only two things come out of a horse's ass, and neither ofthem is worth fighting over, but I agree that it has been piling uppretty deep around here! from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Tue Oct 6 10:18:49 1998 post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id QAA22388 for; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 16:24:13 +0100 Subject: Re: Apology boundary="----=_NextPart_000_012C_01BDF144.C2D12B00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_012C_01BDF144.C2D12B00 Wayne and all. Johnny has been big enough to apologise publicly for his error - a hard =thing to do. I do hope that the open list can now recover its calm. =Wayne, I hope particularly that you can accept that the error has been =corrected, and that this is the right place for your much-valued =expertise to be shared. A lot of folks will be pleased and relieved to =hear you say that this unfortunate business has now blown-over, and that=you are here to stay. JC.-----Original Message-----From: Johnny Johnson Date: 06 October 1998 15:41Subject: Apology - Was: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey Hi folks, I=92d like to apologize to the members of the List for =93stirring =the pot=94with my message last week. My comments were meant to be solely in =supportof Darryl and were not meant to disparage Mr. Cattanach in any way. =I=92msorry that they were interpreted otherwise. Johnny ----------------------------------------------Johnny JohnsonLilburn, GA ------=_NextPart_000_012C_01BDF144.C2D12B00 Wayne and all. Johnny has been big enough to apologise publicly for= - a hard thing to do. I do hope that the open list can now recover its = corrected, and that this is the right place for your much-valued = shared. A lot of folks will be pleased and relieved to hear you say that = stay. JC. -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= 06 October 1998 15:41Subject: Apology - Was: Bamboo= Guide Service SurveyHi folks,I’d= solely in supportof Darryl and were not meant to disparage Mr. = =otherwise.Johnny-----------------------------------------= ------=_NextPart_000_012C_01BDF144.C2D12B00-- from gwr@seanet.com Tue Oct 6 10:29:54 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA14079 for; Tue, Subject: Re: The truth of Guide Spacing boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00A0_01BDF103.F4343520" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00A0_01BDF103.F4343520 boundary="----=_NextPart_001_00A1_01BDF103.F4343520" ------=_NextPart_001_00A1_01BDF103.F4343520 Hi Max, Thank you for encouraging us move along, back to rod making and away = from the bickering. Max, I tend to be wordy. If you don't understand anything I say, =please ask and I'm sure someone more succinct than myself will be happy=to say, "Russ meant..." Guides & guide spacing are a lot like religion. Some folks like it =this way, some folks like it that way, almost everybody has at least a =little, some have way too much, and a few have none at all. (To Harry B. =- you can be a preacher and not have too much, I was thinking of a =couple of batty twin aunts when I wrote this. They run around "laying =hands" on everything and anything. Got a toaster than doesn't work? =They'll give it religion. It still won't work.) By starting a =discussion on guides, anyone's strongly held position is likely to =violate the fundamental beliefs of at least three other sects. Trying =to determine truth in matters of faith will lead to mayhem and =bloodshed. However, if we could all drop our guard for a day, admit =that we are first and foremost devotees of the List, then we could have =a nice ecumenical discussion on guides before reconvening later armed = My opinions (and nothing more): The tip most snake guide should be =4"-5" away from the tip top. The stripping guide for "spec" rods should =be roughly 28- 35 inches from the center of the reel seat - use your =judgement based on how heavy the rod is. You don't need to to guess =though if you are making the rod for yourself or a particular client who =can come over to test the rod. With the grip on the rod and no guides, =have the client close his eyes. Pretend he is in the middle of a =stream, the line has been cast out, the drift completed, and the line is =now straight away from him downstream. Have the client lift the rod tip=to prepare for the first back cast. His line hand should almost =naturally come up to "grab" the imaginary line just below the imaginary =and ideally placed stripper (if it doesn't, then encourage him to make a =short "haul" with his back cast). Your job is to tell him to freeze =when the rod is around 10 O'clock and his line hand is near the rod. =Now imagine a straight line drawn between the line hand and the rod. =Mark the rod at the intersection of this line. Go two inches further up =the blank and put your stripping guide there. For myself, this usually =winds up being 24"-26" from the center of the reel seat, but I'm a =fellow who has been genetically deprived of a heroic stature. The =stripping guide may look like it is a notch too close to the grip. If =this offends your sense of aesthetics, propriety, tradition, or =whatever, then slide if further out. If you leave it where the =experiment determined it should be, the rod will be a comfortable one = have to stretch to re-grasp it as the line will hang just at the = The rest of the guides should be placed in a growing progression = from the stripper to the tip top. Dale Clemen's book "Advanced Custom =Rod Building" has some charts to help with the math of using even =progressions to space guides. I used these for a while, but now I =generally just eyeball the guides. I use one guide (not counting the =tip top) for every foot, or partial foot, of the rod length plus one =more, e.g., 8' rods get nine, 8' 6" rods get ten. I used to use two =extra, which made for good line control, but too many folks complained = Now tape the guides in place according to your progression. String =up the rod and tie the line to your kitchen table (or your car bumper if =your wife is at home). Have your client hold it and put an arc in the =rod, as though he were fighting a reasonable fish for the rod. Look at =the line. If there are flat spots you need the guides to be closer =together so that the line follows the bend of the rod fairly closely. =Different actions of rods require different spacing. If you have a real =noodle of a rod, you may have to add a guide in order to avoid flat =spots. If you have built the cane equivalent of steel rebar, you cane =skip a few guides and the line will still follow the blank. Once you've =adjusted the guides and re-taped them you can test cast the rod. =Honestly, I don't bother. I know I've got the stripper placed correctly = time to go back to work and wrap the rod. Russ Golden Witch Rods - "Tools For Natural Philosophy"Golden Witch Technologies, Inc. - "The Golden Age Is Now"gwr@seanet.comhttp://www.goldenwitch.com -----Original Message-----From: Max Satoh Date: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 6:55 AMSubject: The truth of Guide Spacing Hello list, We must have many ideas which we believe them without doubt. It =happenssince we started learning rod building with none of knowledge about =itand remeber it without doubt. How about discussing those items? One of those things for me is guide spacing. I looked at severaldocuments which shows guide spacing like ( from tip top) 4" 9" 15" =21"...etc.. Some tapers on Rodmakers web also has guide spacing. Until =now Ijust followed to it when mounting guides. Is there anyone who can scientifically explain this rule? Or how do =youthink about it?Have you experienced that fly line was going out in between two =snakeguides at the top portion of the tip? I have many times. Is there =any risingin fron of me, so frustrated because of the line trouble. Or guide spacing should consider the beauty of the balance?How many snake guides to be used on a certain length of the rod?Is there any reliable explanation about this? Appreciate the opinions. Max Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html ------=_NextPart_001_00A1_01BDF103.F4343520 Hi Max, Thank = bickering. I = meant..." Guides = like it that way, almost everybody has at least a little, some have way = much, and a few have none at all. (To Harry B. - you can be a preacher = have too much, I was thinking of a couple of batty twin aunts when I = anyone's strongly held position is likely to violate the fundamental = could have a nice ecumenical discussion on guides before reconvening = = roughly 28-35 inches from the center of the reel seat - use your = making the rod for yourself or a particular client who can come over to = the imaginary line just below the imaginary and ideally placed stripper = doesn't, then encourage him to make a short "haul" with his = center of the reel seat, but I'm a fellow who has been genetically = the experiment determined it should be, the rod will be a comfortable = to stretch to re-grasp it as the line will hang just at the comfortable = rest = guides should be placed in a growing progression from the stripper to = = charts to help with the math of using even progressions to space = used these for a while, but now I generally just eyeball the = one guide (not counting the tip top) for every foot, or partial foot, of = length plus one more, e.g., 8' rods get nine, 8' 6" rods get = used to use two extra, which made for good line control, but too many = tape = to be closer together so that the line follows the bend of the rod = have a real noodle of a rod, you may have to add a guide in order to = client and the snakes placed correctly for the rod, so it is time to go = work and wrap the rod. = Russ = "Tools For Natural Philosophy"Golden Witch -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Tuesday, October 06, 1998 6:55 AMSubject: The truth = SpacingHello list,We must have many = rod building with none of knowledge about itand remeber it = doubt.How about discussing those items?One of those= spacing. Until now Ijust followed to it when mounting = youthink about it?Have you experienced that fly line was = frustrated because of the line trouble.Or guide spacing = consider the beauty of the balance?How many snake guides to be = certain length of the rod?Is there any reliable explanation = this?Appreciate the opinions.Max-- Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jp= =Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html= ------=_NextPart_001_00A1_01BDF103.F4343520-- ------=_NextPart_000_00A0_01BDF103.F4343520 name="Golden Witch.vcf" filename="Golden Witch.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDN:Gooding;John;R.FN:Golden WitchORG:Golden WitchTITLE:Rod Maker &c.TEL;WORK;VOICE:(425) 787- 6599TEL;PAGER;VOICE:noneTEL;WORK;FAX:noneADR;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A;Lynnwood;WA;98037;USALABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A=3D0D=3D0ALynnwood, WA =98037=3D0D=3D0AUSAURL:noneURL:http://www.goldenwitch.comEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:gwr@seanet.comEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_00A0_01BDF103.F4343520-- from harry37@epix.net Tue Oct 6 10:35:15 1998 SMTP idLAA13662 Subject: Re: AutoPlane Sketch WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: Attached is a sketch of the add on to Tom's mill - the idea was to keepit assimple as possible - in other words relay logic - not DDC - but it couldbe ifyou like. The operation is that sw-1 controls forward and reverse movement -when aend switch is contacted all stops - to move again sw-1 is moved to theopposite contact set. If the movement is reverse - a solenoid activatestolift the cutter head as it is drawn back to the start position. If theswitchis placed to off during midpoint travel it can be started again in either areverse or forward direction.I went through the Grainger catalog today and found that the controlswould be about $750 - the end pulleys and the drum with be extra.Because I wore the hat once I just happen to have all the illustratedparts in the ol' basement - the circuit works a 35 rpm gearmotor willpractically drag my workbench accross the floor - it supposedly has 100in lbsof torgue. In closing I would like to say how much I have enjoyed the years here- upto the recent days though - I and my friends have been slammed by folksthatare just looking for us all to slip or say something wrong or whatever. Ihavehad my fill of it - perhaps my attitude is from the long weekend driveand itmay change when I cool down. Earlier today I was talking with Mikeaboutshutting this list down and creating an invitation only list to replace it.Itmay happen or it may not - I am just sick of the body slams to me and myfriends. I'm Out Of Here Wayne To - Johnny Johnson - Georgia & Others Like HimI do hope you are happy with yourself As a lurker who primarily reads and learns from all of the posts, andhas yet to plane a strip, I'm saddened by Wayne's decision, although Ican understand his reasons-- let me also add to other posts about what aloss this is to all. Wayne, thanks for all of the knowledge you have shared--I hope I canlearn more in the future--- Greg from DBURRILL@TELEHUB.com Tue Oct 6 10:53:02 1998 Subject: Thanks for everything boundary="---- =_NextPart_001_01BDF141.531D7B92" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_001_01BDF141.531D7B92 Wayne,On my first posting to 'the list' I was slammed for asking aquestion that had been answered the week before. Of course I had no member of the list that week. More recently, I got reamed because mymail program is MIME based and one of the UNIX oriented list members(who admitted he never posts anything to the list) felt I used too muchbandwidth. (There's a concern...right up there with world hunger.) Withthis kind of treatment it's a wonder anyone ever returns to the list.What made me return was the sage advice and kindness of a fewold masters. (Figuratively speaking of course.) You are at the top ofthe list. I'm glad I read your book first; if I'd read the Garrisonbook first I would never have attempted rod building. Your generousgift of time, book, video, great free advice, hexrod, tapers, tooldesigns, The 'Planing Form' and the list itself... no one, absolutely NOONE, has done as much to de-mystify rod building, and build thegood- Samaritan ethic that currently exists world-wide among rod makers.Please don't leave the list. There are hundreds of quiet guysout there like me. We listen and learn, contribute what we can, and hopeto pass our knowledge on to others. Just as you do for us. Take abreak. Cool off. Let the list thrash and struggle until it exhaustsitself. When you return you'll be more appreciated than ever. In caseyou don't return I just wanted to say thanks for everything.-----Original Message-----From: WayneCatt@aol.com [SMTP:WayneCatt@aol.com]Sent: Friday, August 21, 1998 7:05 PM Subject: Re: Para-15's (was 'First Rod taper search') The Para - 15 is definately a DT - 6 - as far as the folks atPHY - Todd isn'tgoing to help out much with list members ------ =_NextPart_001_01BDF141.531D7B92 Thanks for everything Wayne, course I had no idea it had been answered the week before because I had = reamed because my mail program is MIME based and one of the UNIX =oriented list members (who admitted he never posts anything to the =list) felt I used too much bandwidth. (There's a concern...right up = wonder anyone ever returns to the list. = the Garrison book first I would never have attempted rod = advice, hexrod, tapers, tool designs, The 'Planing Form' and the list =itself... no one, absolutely NO ONE, has done as much to de-mystify rod =building, and build the good-Samaritan ethic that currently exists =world-wide among rod makers. quiet guys out there like me. We listen and learn, contribute what we = just wanted to say thanks for everything.-----Original =Message----- WayneCatt@aol.com [SMTP:WayneCatt@aol.com] Friday, August 21, 1998 7:05 PM Re: Para-15's (was 'First Rod taper =search') The Para - 15 is=definately a DT - 6 - as far as the folks at PHY - Todd isn'tgoing to helpout =much with list members ------ =_NextPart_001_01BDF141.531D7B92-- from maxs@geocities.co.jp Tue Oct 6 11:08:33 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA08683 for; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 01:08:28 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: The truth of Guide Spacing Robert, I also think that the guide spacing should be freely decided.Free means that if desired, can be placed closely, or if beauty isneeded, located to the effect.That's it. Equalizing the pressure should also be considered amongthem.A numerous number of guides reaches to the guideless rod (tubed fly rod,actually it exists already) which may be smooth in pulling out fly line. After accepting those things for spacing, taper design may need to beadjusted to the effect, ideally speaking. Otherwise, the anticipatedrod action (by means of stress curve) will result differently from theoriginal taper (or stress) assumption.To think about this more deeply, we may have to get into the roddesgning theory. Or we just need more flexible hexrod software program about guides underthe current understanding of stress calculation. There might be such a designing method that to have some required actionof a rod, we dare to mount a heavy tip top or snake guides with thickertaper of the sections. (this is just a guess, such thing might result ina new type of rod action sometime).I should stop this here because I do not have enough knowledge about therod design theory so far.But I would like to come back in this area in future.In a meantime, I will follow the plus one rule for the number of snakes. Thanks for your input. Max robert kope wrote: Max, There has been some discussion of this topic on the list, but I think itwasrecent enough that it may not be in the archives yet. Either that or else Irecently read it in the archives. Hard to tell with my memory. I don't know of any scientific basis for guide spacing or the number ofguides. There is a gereral rule that you should use one more guide thanthelength of the rod in feet. For example a 7 foot rod should have 8 guidesinadition to the tip top. Sir D. did some experimenting and found that hecouldn't really tell any difference in the way the rod cast if he usedfewerguides, as long as he didn't go too low. I suspect that you are correctabout more guides, or closer spacing, reducing the risk of the linebellyingout between the guides, but more guides also means more friction whenyouare shooting line, and more weight on the rod. I think guide spacing is mostly a matter of aesthetics (what looks good).There has been some discussion that the guides should be spaced so whentherod is bent, the distance between the line and the rod is the same foreachpair of guides. Because the tip is more flexible, this will put the guidescloser together near the tip. You could also argue that, if you want theforce of the line on the guides to be equal, the guides should be spaced sothe angle, formed by the line at each guide, is the same. The problem with these theories is that as the force applied to the rodchanges, the curvature of the rod changes. When you are playing a largefish, and there is a lot of force applied, most of the bending occurstowardthe butt of the rod, while the tip is pointed almost directly at the fishand hardly bends at all. So the question is: when should the forces beoptimized? Should it be for casting the design weight line for thedesigndistance, or should it be for the anticipated maximum stress the rod islikely to see? I think it basically come down to what looks right. Though I haven't usedit, I believe that Wayne's program calculates a constant increment. Thatis, the difference between the distance from the tip top to guide 1 andthedistance from 1 to 2, is the same as the difference between thedistances from 1 to 2 and 2 to 3. This provides a simple rule that will give youconsistent spacing as long as you can work around the ferrules. That'sabout all you can hope for. my $.02, Robert Kope -----Original Message-----From: Max Satoh Date: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 6:56 AMSubject: The truth of Guide Spacing Hello list, We must have many ideas which we believe them without doubt. Ithappenssince we started learning rod building with none of knowledge about itand remeber it without doubt. How about discussing those items? One of those things for me is guide spacing. I looked at severaldocuments which shows guide spacing like ( from tip top) 4" 9" 15" 21"...etc.. Some tapers on Rodmakers web also has guide spacing. Until now Ijust followed to it when mounting guides. Is there anyone who can scientifically explain this rule? Or how do youthink about it?Have you experienced that fly line was going out in between two snakeguides at the top portion of the tip? I have many times. Is there any in fron of me, so frustrated because of the line trouble. Or guide spacing should consider the beauty of the balance?How many snake guides to be used on a certain length of the rod?Is there any reliable explanation about this? Appreciate the opinions. Max --Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from GDAVIS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU Tue Oct 6 11:21:54 1998 #20257) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue,6 Oct 1998 11:22:15 CDT Subject: opinion (long, eccentric) This list benefits from excellent makers and wonderful people who are willing to share their experiences. Most helpful to me have been fellows like Cattenaugh, LeClair, Bogart, Curry, Thramer, Long, Maurer, Hyashida, Barnes and many, many others (I apologize for my numerous omissions and probable misspellings). Without their help I would still be frustrated by bargain-barrel fly rods whose actions I could neither comprehend nor control. These days, I can guarantee that there is no one anywhere who enjoys making rods and fishing any more than I do, and much of that pleasure would never have been mine without this rodmaker's group. If I knew something I do could to keep this group focused and functional I think I would do it, because the group has been such an asset to me. Maybe the following opinions and observations will help. One problem with a generous spirit is that it can be abused, particularly in a large, free-access community. In general, I think that the most stable relationships (between non-family members) will occur when both parties are financially rewarded for their input. Certainly in my life the non-relatives who have helped me the most all made a profit by doing it. What rewards have the gentlemen listed above received? Their reputations are surely improved by the work (and it is work) which they do here, but repute alone will not pay the bills. They are excellent teachers who get the satisfaction of instructing us, but I'm a professional teacher myself, and I can't imagine doing very much teaching to strangers or casual acquaintances for free. The very least the gentlemen above are owed is my gratitude and courtesy. Providing such is a pleasure which costs me nothing. How could I be so low as to fail to give it? But more significantly, how could I be so foolish as to think those gestures alone would be an appropriate reward have done for those gentlemen is to purchase rodmaking books, supplies and equipment directly and indirectly from some of them. I was always glad to get these proven items at a good price, but in some cases I knew that the seller was making little or even no profit. These last were actually bad deals for me to the extent that I became dependant upon and even came to expect an unstable source. Favors that are expected and convey no reward quickly become galling to the giver. I am as tight as wallpaper, but I don't expect something for nothing. I believe that if discourse on this list continues to be rude, if its rules forbid even a discrete and occasional mention of items available for profit-making transactions, it will not attract helpful participation of professionals. - Grayson from maxs@geocities.co.jp Tue Oct 6 11:28:14 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA00838 for; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 01:28:09 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: The truth of Guide Spacing Russ, Your explanation is very understandable for me.I understood how to position the stripping guide especially by yournote.Thank you very much. Max P.S. Let's keep clean the house until the owner comes back. Golden Witch wrote: Hi Max, Thank you for encouraging us move along, back to rod making andaway from the bickering. Max, I tend to be wordy. If you don't understand anything I say,please ask and I'm sure someone more succinct than myself will behappy to say, "Russ meant..." Guides & guide spacing are a lot like religion. Some folks likeit this way, some folks like it that way, almost everybody has atleast a little, some have way too much, and a few have none at all.(To Harry B. - you can be a preacher and not have too much, I wasthinking of a couple of batty twin aunts when I wrote this. They runaround "laying hands" on everything and anything. Got a toaster thandoesn't work? They'll give it religion. It still won't work.) Bystarting a discussion on guides, anyone's strongly held position islikely to violate the fundamental beliefs of at least three othersects. Trying to determine truth in matters of faith will lead tomayhem and bloodshed. However, if we could all drop our guard for aday, admit that we are first and foremost devotees of the List, thenwe could have a nice ecumenical discussion on guides beforereconvening later armed for battle. My opinions (and nothing more): The tip most snake guide shouldbe 4"-5" away from the tip top. The stripping guide for "spec" rodsshould be roughly 28-35 inches from the center of the reel seat - useyour judgement based on how heavy the rod is. You don't need to toguess though if you are making the rod for yourself or a particularclient who can come over to test the rod. With the grip on the rodand no guides, have the client close his eyes. Pretend he is in themiddle of a stream, the line has been cast out, the drift completed,and the line is now straight away from him downstream. Have theclient lift the rod tip to prepare for the first back cast. His linehand should almost naturally come up to "grab" the imaginary line justbelow the imaginary and ideally placed stripper (if it doesn't, thenencourage him to make a short "haul" with his back cast). Your job isto tell him to freeze when the rod is around 10 O'clock and his linehand is near the rod. Now imagine a straight line drawn between theline hand and the rod. Mark the rod at the intersection of this line.Go two inches further up the blank and put your stripping guidethere. For myself, this usually winds up being 24"-26" from thecenter of the reel seat, but I'm a fellow who has been geneticallydeprived of a heroic stature. The stripping guide may look like it isa notch too close to the grip. If this offends your sense ofaesthetics, propriety, tradition, or whatever, then slide if furtherout. If you leave it where the experiment determined it should be,the rod will be a comfortable one for the client. If, say, he dropsthe line from his line hand, he won't have to stretch to re-grasp itas the line will hang just at the comfortable edge of his reach.The rest of the guides should be placed in a growing progression from the stripper to the tip top. Dale Clemen's book "Advanced CustomRod Building" has some charts to help with the math of using evenprogressions to space guides. I used these for a while, but now Igenerally just eyeball the guides. I use one guide (not counting thetip top) for every foot, or partial foot, of the rod length plus onemore, e.g., 8' rods get nine, 8' 6" rods get ten. I used to use twoextra, which made for good line control, but too many folks complainedabout the "crowded" looks.Now tape the guides in place according to your progression.String up the rod and tie the line to your kitchen table (or your carbumper if your wife is at home). Have your client hold it and put anarc in the rod, as though he were fighting a reasonable fish for therod. Look at the line. If there are flat spots you need the guidesto be closer together so that the line follows the bend of the rodfairly closely. Different actions of rods require different spacing.If you have a real noodle of a rod, you may have to add a guide inorder to avoid flat spots. If you have built the cane equivalent ofsteel rebar, you cane skip a few guides and the line will still followthe blank. Once you've adjusted the guides and re-taped them you cantest cast the rod. Honestly, I don't bother. I know I've got thestripper placed correctly for the client and the snakes placedcorrectly for the rod, so it is time to go back to work and wrap therod. Hope that helps. Russ Golden Witch Rods - "Tools For Natural Philosophy"Golden Witch Technologies, Inc. - "The Golden Age Is Now"gwr@seanet.comhttp://www.goldenwitch.com -----Original Message-----From: Max Satoh Date: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 6:55 AMSubject: The truth of Guide Spacing Hello list, We must have many ideas which we believe them without doubt.It happenssince we started learning rod building with none ofknowledge about itand remeber it without doubt. How about discussing those items? One of those things for me is guide spacing. I looked atseveraldocuments which shows guide spacing like ( from tip top) 4"9" 15" 21"...etc.. Some tapers on Rodmakers web also has guide spacing.Until now Ijust followed to it when mounting guides. Is there anyone who can scientifically explain this rule?Or how do youthink about it?Have you experienced that fly line was going out in betweentwo snakeguides at the top portion of the tip? I have many times.Is there any fish is risingin fron of me, so frustrated because of the line trouble. Or guide spacing should consider the beauty of the balance?How many snake guides to be used on a certain length of therod?Is there any reliable explanation about this? Appreciate the opinions. Max --Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html Golden Witch Rod Maker &c.Golden Witch Golden WitchRod Maker &c. Golden Witch16829 6th Ave. West Suite #2B Work $BEEOC(B: (425);Lynnwood;WA;98037;USA 787-6599$BEEOC(B (IN_9/DM^Y(B: noneWork Fax: noneAdditional Information:Last Name GoodingFirst NameJohn$B2C$($kL>A0(BR.(IWM^Y(B Work 16829 6th Ave. West Suite #2B Lynnwood, WA 98037USA -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Tue Oct 6 11:44:21 1998 Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:41:49 -0500 Wayne Cattanach Subject: Re: Apology Mr. Cooper, possiblesolution, though it will doubtlessly embarass Mr. Cattanach. queen of England you took it upon yourself to "knight" Mr. Hayashida forsome kindness or generosity he had shown you, and it is rightful that youdid so. For several days there was great enjoyment on the part of all at act of great humility, the "Sir" appelation was dropped. the country you still think of as "the colonies," I have no authority togrant knighthood. a rebel Baptist, faithful to the tradition of the Radical Reformation,I am not completely familiar with canonical law. At least one post this allow me some leeway in my interpretation of the traditions of thechurch. in any way wish that on said Jackpine Rodmaker. must have in his lifetime been a party to at least three verifiable I personally saw Wayne Cattanach perform many more than three miracles namednavigator) transformed the trip from St. Louis to Mtn. Home from a journeyof a few hours into an arduous journey of epic proportions worthy of thebest efforts of Cecil B. DeMille. convinced a conglomeration of everything from wanna-be's to has-been's surely warrants the status of miracle. severalothers who have built a rod or two that we can move from imitators toinnovators; that is miraculous. transformedthe 13 inch rainbow I caught while under his observation into a 17 inchvehemoth, etc., etc., etc. candidate graciousness, his generosity, his demeanor, his helpfulness. that it be known here and in all parts unknown that from this day forward,Mr. Wayne Cattanach, a.k.a Jackpine Rodmaker, Jackpine Buddha, Sensei,friend, mentor, and genuine nice guy, shall be deemed "St. That nomenclature shall convey the privilege of being known throughout That designation shall carry with it only one obligation; that he continue at least as highly as his wisdom and experience, priceless commoditieson their own. correspondence, reference some of my recent posts) thoughtshould invade our minds before we press the "Send" key. PS - Russ and others, hope this is taken in the spirit it is meant,as I took your post and laughed out loud! J.Cooper wrote: apologisepublicly for his error - a hard thing to do. I do hope that the open listcan now recover its calm. Wayne, I hope particularly that you can acceptthat the error has been corrected, and that this is the right place foryour much-valued expertise to be shared. A lot of folks will be pleasedand relieved to hear you say that this unfortunate business has nowblown-over, -----OriginalMessage-----From: Johnny Johnson<jjohnso4@bellsouth.net> <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu>Date: 06 October 199815:41Subject: Apology - Was:BambooOnly Guide Service SurveyHi folks, from sniderja@email.uc.edu Tue Oct 6 13:06:54 1998 from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Tue Oct 6 13:25:20 1998 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 06:25:19 +1200 Subject: Re: The possible loss of Wayne John, You have put it exactly right Iank At 02:40 PM 6/10/98 +0100, you wrote:The world is REALLY turning upside down if someone of theINTERNATIONALdoyen stature of Wayne can be driven off the list by anyone who isinsensitive, ungrateful, and downright STUPID enough to make snideremarksabout one of rod-making's kindest people. I didn't see the original offending mailings, but whatever they said, theyoffended. Now for Christ's sake, have the common sense and the good manners toapologise, and ask Wayne to stay. If Wayne goes, I'm going too. No matter at all. But if Sir Darryl, andThramer, and LeClair, et al are eventually so cross with the bad mannersthat THEY also resign (and it's quite obvious that some of the best makersare getting downright fed-up with the unpleasantness of late) then thelistwill offer only a thin shadow of its original connection between folks whoneed to know (like me) and sources of professional excellence (likeWayne). Here in England the craft is shrouded in mystery and professionaljealousy.Members who jeopardise the invaluable, selfless, open, forum that is therodmakers list, should be bloody well ashamed of themselves. John Cooper (England) Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz from doddd@monroe.army.mil Tue Oct 6 13:26:28 1998 (5.5.2232.9) Subject: RE: Mica Heat Strips/oven element Kurt, This is good!! I will put your message in the file and keep it forthe time I start my oven. I knew that there was a way to heat with out having propane gas in my garage. Thanks for the info. I may even ask DaveDavid W. Doddddodd@hrfn.net Newport News, VA -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Mica Heat Strips/oven element from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Tue Oct 6 13:27:54 1998 SMTP Tue, 6 Oct 1998 20:27:29 +0200 Subject: Quest - old rod NAA10066 Dear Friends A few days ago i became a rod for restoration. It`s not a split canerod, the Blank is made from different bamboo culms. It`s a 3-piecesalmon fly rod(?), the whole lenght ca. 12 ft. The rings are made from wire, double wise turned. The stripping guideis a agathe guide ( maybe from another restorer?), all guides arewrapped in olive green, no intermediates. The tip guide is also wrapped with wire (!), and it`s made in the samemanner like the other guides - made from double wise turned wire. The grip is from cork, but can`t see if he`s made from cork rings, seemsnot. The sliding bands are made from aluminium, seems to be not originaland from another decade(?).The grip has a butt cap, black and mabye made in hard gum or somethingsimilar. The makers name are "Jeavy (Jeary?)& Mitch" ( & Mitch is true, the othername can`t exact read). The rod cames with a "Meisselbach featherlight reel", but think it`s notthe real, original set. The "Meisselbach" must be from ca. 1904. Question(s); Anyone know the decade of this rod?The maker(s)?The country - maybe a "Yankee-" or a "Tommy-Rod"? Thanks a lot for all thought/ideas & help. Stefan-- S. Grau`s * atelier edelweiss *Gespliesste Angelruten _ Bamboo RodsAlpine Fliegenfischerschule & GuidingAlpine Flyfishing School & Guiding Brunnadernstr. 11 3006 Berne/SwitzerlandPhone: ++41 (0) 31 352 42 88 ab 19.00 / from 7.pme-mail: gespliesst@bluewin.ch from gwr@seanet.com Tue Oct 6 13:51:03 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA04461 for; Tue, Subject: Re: Apology boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00DB_01BDF116.4DFF6680" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00DB_01BDF116.4DFF6680 boundary="----=_NextPart_001_00DC_01BDF116.4DFF6680" ------=_NextPart_001_00DC_01BDF116.4DFF6680 PS - Russ and others, hope this is taken in the spirit it is meant, as I = I rather hoped you would Harry. Take care, Russ ------=_NextPart_001_00DC_01BDF116.4DFF6680 PS - Russ and others, hope this is taken in the spirit it is = I rather hoped you Harry. Russ ------=_NextPart_001_00DC_01BDF116.4DFF6680-- ------=_NextPart_000_00DB_01BDF116.4DFF6680 name="Golden Witch.vcf" filename="Golden Witch.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDN:Gooding;John;R.FN:Golden WitchORG:Golden WitchTITLE:Rod Maker &c.TEL;WORK;VOICE:(425) 787- 6599TEL;PAGER;VOICE:noneTEL;WORK;FAX:noneADR;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A;Lynnwood;WA;98037;USALABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A=3D0D=3D0ALynnwood, WA =98037=3D0D=3D0AUSAURL:noneURL:http://www.goldenwitch.comEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:gwr@seanet.comEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_00DB_01BDF116.4DFF6680-- from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Tue Oct 6 14:15:33 1998 Subject: Re: V-Block Richard,I get a message from AT&T that the area code has beenchanged, thus:(734)420-0267. I called and got a machine. This may savesome of you a little troubleHarry Fallcreek9@aol.com wrote: List Members:The V-Block is supplied by John Long @ 313-420-0267 Hope he has a good supply in stock. Regards,RTyree Ps - Mike 'List Guy' said I could do this on the list. from phillips@library.ucsf.edu Tue Oct 6 14:45:07 1998 [128.218.33.10](may be forged)) Subject: Re: Gatherings At 08:01 PM 10/3/98 -0700, you wrote:There is a guy here in S.california who ties a bird imitation for largemouth bass. The brush is so thick in the local resivoir that all you cando is dap the fly between the brush. I have heard that it is anextremly effective technique.Traver Becker I believe he also uses 10-12wt rods too, due to some broken rod tips. There was an article a few years ago about him in California Fly Fishermagazine.John Phillips from pdcorlis@nidc.edu Tue Oct 6 14:53:47 1998 with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 06 Oct 1998 12:54:23 -0700 Subject: PLEASE stop it now! OAA22880 I promised myself I wouldn't get involved in this cat fight, but I guess I'mgonnaanyway. I'm sorry to add to the debris in your in-box, but I must saywhat's onmy mind so here goes. I was very excited to find this list last week and think that there wouldbe achance to get some help creating bamboo rods from scratch way out herein northern informationwith "St. Wayne" and other kind and generous folks in real time... not justreadtheir excellent books and hope I got it right. Silly me, I even EXPECTED togetinformation on the best prices, sources and uses of materials and tools soI couldavoid making any more stupid rookie mistakes than necessary! Now, I'm real new to this list but not new to e-mail lists in general. I'vegottatell you I've seldom seen a place like this! I'm sorry to see how you choosetotreat each other... its an extravagance to think there are an endlessnumber offolks that share this interest. It's also an extravagance to think you cantreateach other this way and continue to share any interest. Please, before you dash off another nastygram... ask yourself if it needs tobesaid, if it needs to be said by you and if it needs to be said by you rightnow...Who knows, the list you save may be your own... Phil (Red Humpy) Corlis from RMargiotta@aol.com Tue Oct 6 15:52:47 1998 Subject: Re: Invitation only As Groucho once said, "I'd never belong to a club that would have me as amember".Please stop this silliness about an invitation-only list. --Rich from jcole10@juno.com Tue Oct 6 16:39:02 1998 17:38:43 EDT Subject: Re: Wayne Cattanach Richard and List,Please add my name to the growing list of Wayne supporters and admirers.He has always promptly answered any question I ask either on or off thelist and I would not have been able to build any rods without hisanswers. I met him at Grayling and at SRG and found him to be a gentlemanin all sense of the word. John Cole from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Oct 6 18:24:19 1998 Subject: Re: PLEASE stop it now! AMEN BROTHER Phil,i agree with you whole heartedly, List please stop any more trite e- mailsonthe list. If you want to tell someone off or tell them thank you do it offthe lisy as I've said before. If you have something to say about a subjectdon't just hit reply either put a subject matter if it is different from thesubject in the subject box. I myself get tired of looking at something andseeing someone saying thanks Bob for the reply. Tell him off the list. Ihave looked at the list and seen a ton of posts and found alot of them notworth reading. I along with many others I am sure have looked at asubjectmatter and thought good something of importance and seen thanks or countmein. If someone puts up they are getting thread or something else and arelooking for people to go in with thewm tell them off the list please andsaveall the clutter. And as far as this BS bickering goes e-mail the person offthe list. I know I sound like a broken record but go back and look at thearchives and weed thru all the BS and the archives could be a lot smallerandeasier to find info on. If this keeps up I know for sure I am going tounsubscribe and i think that there will be others. This list should be kept list I think I will chastise them OFF the list of course. Guys think aboutit. If you think I am full of BS tell me and if you agree just follow myadvise and keep it off the list from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Oct 6 18:24:42 1998 Subject: Re: PLEASE stop it now! Forgot to sign ,BRET from gc.williams@MCIONE.com Tue Oct 6 18:30:44 1998 with ESMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 23:30:10 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Lessons Learned? I've got to say that Wayne's consideration of dumping this list is seriousbusiness and made me go back and research the couple of reply's I madejustto make sure I didn't submit anything that was unintentional. I've only been a member of this list for a short time even though I've beena rod builder since 1990. Just 8 years ago Wayne C. was the only personaround that was unselfishly willing to help fledgling rod builders such asmyself. The concept and spirit of this list is based on information sharing andlearning, maybe we've all learned something that could be parlayed into apositive. Gary W. from channer@hubwest.com Tue Oct 6 18:42:05 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AB2225660114; Tue, 06 Oct 1998 17:43:30 MDT Subject: Re: PLEASE stop it now! At 12:54 PM 10/6/98 -0700, you wrote:I promised myself I wouldn't get involved in this cat fight, but I guessI'm gonna anyway. I'm sorry to add to the debris in your in-box, but Imust say what's on my mind so here goes. I was very excited to find this list last week and think that there wouldbe a chance to get some help creating bamboo rods from scratch way outherein northern Idaho. I was astounded to think that there was a possibilityto share information with "St. Wayne" and other kind and generous folks in real time... not just readtheir excellent books and hope I got it right. Silly me, I even EXPECTEDto get information on the best prices, sources and uses of materials andtools so I could avoid making any more stupid rookie mistakes than necessary! Now, I'm real new to this list but not new to e-mail lists in general.I've gotta tell you I've seldom seen a place like this! I'm sorry to seehow you choose to treat each other... its an extravagance to think thereare an endless number of folks thatshare this interest. It's also an extravagance to think you can treateach other this way and continue to share any interest. Please, before you dash off another nastygram... ask yourself if it needsto be said, if it needs to be said by you and if it needs to be said by youright now... Who knows, the list you save may be your own... Phil (Red Humpy) Corlis Phil;I, for one, am sorry you got this impression of this list and its members.Please believe me ( or go to the archives at Jerry Foster's Rodmaker's pageand see for yourself) the manners on the list are not usually this bad.Compared to some of the gardening chat groups my wife has belonged to,thisone has been downright angelic. There is one guy (whom we all know andcanlive without) that chimes in once every six months or so and sets everyoneoff. I hope everyone gets over it soon, and that we can all go back toenjoying each others company as we used to.John Channer p.s. it might be a good idea for all of us to go back and read the archives from time to time, just to remind ourselves what it is that we have hereand what we might be jeopardizing. from gc.williams@MCIONE.com Tue Oct 6 18:55:43 1998 with ESMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 23:53:58 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Glace Cotton Thread The American Thread Co. (sorry, I don't have the phone number but maybethey can be located through a business search using Dogpile.) Gary W. from WDHCJL@aol.com Tue Oct 6 19:47:01 1998 Subject: Here's your glace source guys Atlanta Thread And Supply695 Red Oak RdStockbridge, GA 30281- 4369Phone: (770) 389-9115 Great Source will mail. Cost is about $18 for 6000 yards from Fallcreek9@aol.com Tue Oct 6 20:46:28 1998 Subject: V-Block Source List: Mike saw my note about the V-block and said "no problem with thiskindof posting of an item of interest." So, the source is John Long, @313-420-0267. Regards,RTyree from Fallcreek9@aol.com Tue Oct 6 20:56:27 1998 Subject: Re: V-Block In a message dated 10/6/98 2:23:42 PM Central Daylight Time,fbcwin@fsbnet.comwrites: List: OOPS! The following is self explanatory.RTyree from lblan@provide.net Tue Oct 6 21:04:25 1998 Subject: Forwarded from Wayne boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01BDF174.A0DD4D00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01BDF174.A0DD4D00 Wayne asked me to forward this jpg of the "autoplane" set-up to the list.Itis unfortunate that he won't be here to comment or help... The people whose notes I forwarded to Wayne will be receiving repliesfromhim shortly, if you haven't already.> from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Oct 621:20:32 1998 Subject: Wayne Cattanach a true gentleman Wayne,If you are still reading the list I hope you see this. I believe you havedone more for bamboo rod building than anyone else has before or since. Iremember back in 1975(?) I bought a book about bamboo rod building byHoagyCarmichael and Everette Garrison. I read that book and looked at all thatmath and said I will never be able to do this I am not an engineer. Istumbled around rebuilding rods that were delaminated and buying blanksthatwere made by other bamboo guys and even hanging out at Bernard Hills rodshoptrying to gleen as much as I could. I asked some of the bamboo buildersforhelp or an apprenticeship and was discouraged by them all and told to getareal job. Then along came your book and video and low and behold all thatmath stuff disappeared and a light bulb went off in my head. I told myselfBret you build guns from scratch you can do this too, with Waynes help. Andhelp me you have. When I had questions on heat guns and torches you werethere to help. When I had questions on many other things you helped metheretoo. You even went so far as to offer to send me some glue to try free ofcharge. So Wayne I for one would hate to see you go and if it wasn't foryouand the rest of the pros we would all be stumbling around trying to figurethings out. I wanted to send you a letter off the list but I see you are notaccepting mail from my name. If I have offended you in any way Iappologizeand would ask you to stay with us. Thanks for everything you have doneforthe art of the bamboo rod. Bret from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Tue Oct 6 21:33:59 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Rod balance about the cork handle, reel seat Hi Max, I visited your webpage and enjoyed it.Regarding your question, remember that what matters is how the rodbalanceswith reel and line attached. George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Rod balance about the cork handle, reel seat Hello list, When I made Jim Payne 200 rod, the cork hanld seemed to be a littlesmall.And the rod balance when hold it seemed a little heavier at front.Is there any decipline to decide the location of the cork handle and/orthe length, kind of, the weight of the reel seat? How are you deciding the balance, length of the cork handle?Appreciate your opinion. Max --Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Oct 6 21:34:15 1998 Subject: Re: Wayne Cattanach Richard,I can't begin to tell you how much I agree with you-Wayne has been atremendous help to me in a very selfless way as have you and many othersonthis list. I hope we don't lose it.Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Oct 6 21:34:16 1998 Subject: Re: Goodbye, Wayne, see you in June Reed,I hope that you're not presaging a stampede from the list of some of themoreexperienced members. I for one have enjoyed your posts and seeing you atGreyrock. If we lose you, Wayne, Sir d ,etc.,etc.the list will be worthless(and humorless) in which case I'll have to leave too. So, hang in there,friend we need you.Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Oct 6 21:34:18 1998 Subject: Re: Re: taper request & Offer to Help Dick,I'd even mask the micrometer faces and take a reading with it closedandsubtract that from your average-good luck.Hank. from MaryKay01@worldnet.att.net Tue Oct 6 22:26:35 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Cork Order David wrote: Here's what I have decided to do as regards the cork order. Since I'veonlygotten good recommendations for Cork Specialties in Miami, I'll sendthem anorder for myself and anyone else who wants to get in. I'm thinking right now that I'd like to see the goods before I make morethan a token order, so about a dozen guys/gals making a very minimumorderwill be plenty. That way we can all get a reasonable idea of what toexpectand nobody will be out much if it turns out to be crap. Make sense? Thenif a sufficient number of people are happy with what they receive andwishto order a really serious quantity, we can do that a little later- as longas it doesn't interfere with steelheading. Their minimum order is $75.00, so we won't need very much to get thereif ahalf-dozen or so will send me their checks, say by the 15th or so. Thismight also be the way to go for somebody who will make a total of twoorthree (or one) rods and just wants to get a volume price. I will cash thechecks, make the order, re-package and distribute the rings when theygethere, send them out to the participants and graciously ignore anycriticismsof my handling of the affair. The price for 1-1/8 inch dia. X 1/2 inch rings with 1/4 inch bore (yes, Igave up on the smaller holes) is $0.53 (fifty-three cents) so multiplythat five bucks (the lower number for a "sample" order, the greater if it'sgoingto be over a couple of pounds) If I get too much money (or cork) I willputa share of same, proportional to your contribution, in the package whichIwill send you. On a similar subject, since we all got the wordconcerningthe accepted definition of "commercialism" I should get no flames inreturn comfort in the certain knowledge that I will not read them :-) Also, Ifyouneed something right away, or if you need a large order, please order itonyour own. Above the $75.00 minimum, there is no significant price break(5% Anybody who'se still interested, send me a private email and I'll get thething going. In fact, if you go to Cork Specialties' website and seesomething else you want (They carry a selection of pre-formed grips) I'dbehappy to include same in the order. http://www.corkgrips.com Got to shut down- major lightning close by. Davy Davy Where can I order from? Do I send to you if I'd like to get in on thisorder? Mark Hallowell from Fallcreek9@aol.com Tue Oct 6 22:35:09 1998 Subject: Re: Wayne Cattanach In a message dated 10/6/98 9:44:58 PM Central Daylight Time,FISHWOOL@aol.comwrites: Hi Hank: I agree. Bet the list stays mostly intact. Regards,Richard from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Tue Oct 6 23:47:41 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: A.J. Thramer rod on the cover boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01BDF173.AE9252C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BDF173.AE9252C0 Just got Martin Keane's latest catalog...there on the cover in the color =photo is one of A.J. Thramer's rods (7', 3/2, #3)...described in the =catalog as "a superb little rod" and the reel seat as "elegantly =figured". It looked nice to me, too. The rod to the left of A.J.'s is a Jim Payne and to the right is a Paul =Young (built by Todd Young). Pretty good company, too. Rounding out =the group, there's a Wes Jordan, Pinky Gillum (Gillum-made blanks =assembled into a rod by someone else), and a varnished Orvis Battenkill =(pre-impregnation). George Bourke ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BDF173.AE9252C0 Just got Martin Keane's latest = #3)...described in the catalog as "a superb little rod" and = too. The rod to the left of A.J.'s is a = (Gillum-made blanks assembled into a rod by someone else), and a = Battenkill (pre-impregnation). George =Bourke ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BDF173.AE9252C0-- from jourdoktorn@pilot.stjarntv.se Wed Oct 7 00:29:26 1998 with ESMTP id AAA6243 for ;Wed, 7 Oct 1998 07:24:21 +0200 Subject: Re: A.J. Thramer rod on the cover boundary="------------1C1461458B372781A82C3F9D" --------------1C1461458B372781A82C3F9D Hello George and list,how do I get mr Keane's catalog? Jan Nystrom irish-george wrote: Just got Martin Keane's latest catalog...there on the cover inthe color photo is one of A.J. Thramer's rods (7', 3/2,#3)...described in the catalog as "a superb little rod" and thereel seat as "elegantly figured". It looked nice to me,too. The rod to the left of A.J.'s is a Jim Payne and to theright is a Paul Young (built by Todd Young). Pretty goodcompany, too. Rounding out the group, there's a Wes Jordan,> PinkyGillum (Gillum-made blanks assembled into a rod by someoneelse), and a varnished Orvis Battenkill(pre- impregnation). George Bourke --------------1C1461458B372781A82C3F9D Hello George and list, Jan Nystrom irish-george wrote: Martin Keane's latest catalog...there on the cover in the color photo isone of A.J. Thramer's rods (7', 3/2, #3)...described in the catalog as rod to the left of A.J.'s is a Jim Payne and to the right is a Paul Young the group, there's a Wes Jordan, Pinky Gillum (Gillum-made blanksassembledinto a rod by someone else), and a varnished Orvis Battenkill Bourke --------------1C1461458B372781A82C3F9D-- from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Wed Oct 7 01:21:29 1998 Subject: Re: A.J. Thramer rod on the cover wugate.wustl.edu idBAA19348 Hi Jan, There is a subscription form in the catalog. $10/$15/$20 for a year(US/CAN/Foreign). I can email you the form if necessary. Regards, Bob Bob PerryFly Suppliesflysupplies@yahoo.com On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, jan [iso-8859-1] nystråm wrote: Hello George and list,how do I get mr Keane's catalog? Jan Nystrom irish-george wrote: Just got Martin Keane's latest catalog...there on the cover inthe color photo is one of A.J. Thramer's rods (7', 3/2,#3)...described in the catalog as "a superb little rod" and thereel seat as "elegantly figured". It looked nice to me,too. The rod to the left of A.J.'s is a Jim Payne and to theright is a Paul Young (built by Todd Young). Pretty goodcompany, too. Rounding out the group, there's a Wes Jordan,Pinky Gillum (Gillum-made blanks assembled into a rod by someoneelse), and a varnished Orvis Battenkill(pre-impregnation). George Bourke from MICK@welfen-netz.com Wed Oct 7 04:24:04 1998 [195.143.56.1]with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Wed,07 Oct 199811:22:22 +0200 Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: I've been on this list for a while and enjoyed it. But, the wayit's been going lately, it's not very enjoyable any more. I thinkthis advertising thing is getting out of hand. When someoneis looking for a particular tool or component, if I make it orknow someone who does, I feel it's good for the list to tell theguy. Usually when I do, three other guys say, THANKS, I'vebeen looking for one of those to. And if you think I'm makinga lot of money selling my tools or components to the guys,think again. I'm deeper in debt every year, but I like to helpthe people on the list. If THIS is not what you want on thelist, then I'll stop. Dave LeClair P.S. I don't like the way Terry was talking on the list, butI agree that you shouldn't give away ALL your secrets. Youshould always keep something for yourself. Agreed in all points and thank you for your helpful information thoughthe "snail mail" was very slow this time.Michael from MICK@welfen-netz.com Wed Oct 7 04:24:07 1998 [195.143.56.1]with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Wed,07 Oct 199811:22:27 +0200 Subject: Re: Bamboo Only Guide Service Survey =;-)) sounds like FIDO.NET David wrote: I trust we all have enough good humor to take this the right way: How many list members does it take to change a lightbulb? 1 to change the lightbulb and to post the mailing list that the bulb hasbeen changed.14 to share similar experiences of changing lightbulbs and to explainhow itcould have been done differently.7 to talk about the dangers of changing light bulbs27 to point out spelling/grammar errors of posts about changinglightbulbs53 to flame the spell checkers156 to write the list administrator complaining about the light bulbdiscussion being "off topic" and inappropriate.10 to post that this list is not about light bulbs, and to please take thise-mail exchange to a new alt.lightbulb newsgroup.111 to defend the posting on this list, saying that we all use lightbulbs,therefore the posts are relevant to this list.6 to debate which method of changing lightbulbs is superior, where tobuythe best lightbulbs, what brand of lightbulbs work best for thistechnique;and what brands are faulty.27 to post URL's where one can see different examples of lightbulbs.14 to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly, and to post correctedURLs.33 to put together all the posts to date, then quote them including allheaders and footers and then add "me too"19 to quote the "me too"s to say "me three"12 to post the list that they are unsubscribing because they cannothandlethe lightbulb controversy. from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Wed Oct 7 07:37:43 1998 IAA18082 Subject: RE: Lessons Learned? I have been on this web for about 3 weeks. My purpose for this was tolearnabout bamboo rods, their construction, how to build and restore. I askedseveral questions and have received dozens of answers. Which Ipersonallye-mail my thanks to those that respond. My point is that this web site should be to assist those in building bamboorods. Answering questions when some one has a problem! Every maker ofbamboo rods has "trade secrets" which they may not want to share, somewillshare, some will teach those that ask. When Walte Dette asked Rube Crosstoshow him how to tie those exquisite Catskill flies, he would NOT! He hadtobuy the and take them apart to determine how it was done. Jim Paynewouldnot let anyone see how he varnished rods, with maybe an exception or two. Quit the bullshit, let us get on to the purpose of this web! Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 7:30 PM Subject: Lessons Learned? I've got to say that Wayne's consideration of dumping thislist is seriousbusiness and made me go back and research the couple ofreply's I made justto make sure I didn't submit anything that wasunintentional. I've only been a member of this list for a short time eventhough I've beena rod builder since 1990. Just 8 years ago Wayne C. was theonly personaround that was unselfishly willing to help fledgling rodbuilders such asmyself. The concept and spirit of this list is based on informationsharing andlearning, maybe we've all learned something that could beparlayed into apositive. Gary W. from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Oct 7 08:54:11 1998 0500 Subject: Re: A.J. Thramer rod on the cover Bob,I'd like the phone number for Mr. Keane's catalog as well. Thanks in advance,Harry Boyd Bob Perry wrote: Hi Jan, There is a subscription form in the catalog. $10/$15/$20 for a year(US/CAN/Foreign). I can email you the form if necessary. Regards, Bob Bob PerryFly Suppliesflysupplies@yahoo.com On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, jan [iso-8859-1] nystråm wrote: Hello George and list,how do I get mr Keane's catalog? Jan Nystrom irish-george wrote: Just got Martin Keane's latest catalog...there on the cover inthe color photo is one of A.J. Thramer's rods (7', 3/2,#3)...described in the catalog as "a superb little rod" and thereel seat as "elegantly figured". It looked nice to me,too. The rod to the left of A.J.'s is a Jim Payne and to theright is a Paul Young (built by Todd Young). Pretty goodcompany, too. Rounding out the group, there's a Wes Jordan,Pinky Gillum (Gillum-made blanks assembled into a rod by someoneelse), and a varnished Orvis Battenkill(pre-impregnation). George Bourke from doddd@monroe.army.mil Wed Oct 7 09:07:04 1998 (5.5.2232.9) Subject: RE: Lessons Learned? AL, As a 1 week listee, I agree. I have printed of 2" of GOOD Stuffand have to file it all away. Us new guys are like sponges. We soak upalmost everything. Guys and Gals on the list have been more than heplful.I even think my wife feels better about this bamboo stuff now. I read thegood stuff while she watches the division playoffs. We each have ourareasinterest. DaveDavid W. DoddConcepts GateKeepersBattleLab Integration, Technology and Concepts DirectorateDSN 680-3995 FAX 680-3445 from michael@wugate.wustl.edu Wed Oct 7 10:01:55 1998 Subject: RODMAKERS List Dear Friends, It certainly is a sad day for this list when we loose such generousmembersas Wayne Cattanach, Reed Curry, and I am sure others that I am not yetaware of. I can only hope that they will return - this list will not everbe the same without them. The RODMAKERS list will go on. Hopefully when/if those who have lefteverdecide to rejoin the list, they will find a much improved and hospitableatmosphere here. To that end, I would like to suggest that starting now,we drop all further discussion of this topic and get on to rodmaking. Ifanyone has anything further to add, please direct it to me personally -*not* to the list. I would welcome your comments, but again, not on thelist - please, direct them to me at: michael@wugate.wustl.edu In addition, we are in process of developing a set of general guidelines membership.Once completed, these guidelines will be posted to the list, anddistributed to each new member as he subscribes. I certainly did not everwant to be put in the position of having to "police" a listserv. However,when we loose valuable friends as Wayne and Reed to bickering, I feel thegood of the many, far out-weighs taking actions against an abusing few. So...let us all put this behind us, and move on to rodmaking. Again,please, no further discussion of this on the list. Please, ***no onerespond to this message***...read it, take it heart, and if you have acomment, please directed to me personally. Thank you for your time, for listening, and being part of a circle folks Iam proud to call friends... Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy from GDAVIS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU Wed Oct 7 10:35:04 1998 #20257) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed,7 Oct 1998 10:35:22 CDT Subject: bench clutter My bench is a mess! If I lay down strips 2-6 while I work #1, they coverup my tools and get mixed up. When they are mixed up, I'm mixed up too. Fortunately, I found a good solution; nothing earth-shattering, just a good solution for me. Near the back of my bench is a smallish, lidlesscardboard carton wherein I keep my assorted gluing supplies. One day I took a razor blade and cut six, 60 degree notches on the right and left sides of that box. Then I laid my strips in the notches, and my brain became less befuddled, permitting me to swallow another homebrew. My strips are safer nowthat they are out of the way, and I can more easily work on them in a logicalprogression. Also, when it's time to stagger the spline joints (nodes having beenbandsawed out), the box holds the strips steadily and neatly with enamel up so I seethe effects of different spacings clearly. Right now I'm working on a Paul Young Midge; next will be a Para 15. Maybe a huge spey rod with old style taped joints (no ferrules) will follow that. Other plans: an 8' (maybe 9'?) slow rod for a cast of 3 soft hackle wets, a spin- castingrod with a pistol-grip handle for my wife's Zebco or that spinning rod ofVince Marinaro's ( I hear he gets lots of fishing done now that Hill Street Bluesis offthe air :^). - Grayson from dhaftel@att.com Wed Oct 7 10:56:48 1998 sender att.com!dhaftel (att.com!dhaftel); Wed Oct 7 10:56 CDT 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) (5.5.2232.9) Subject: RE: bench clutter Hi Grayson, Funny that you should mention it, but Ed Marinaro (and his buddy JamesSikking) is an avid fly fisherman! He must be... I saw him doin' it on TV!They wouldn't lie to us, would they? Dunno if he's into bamboo though. Good idea with the box and all... I have to keep my strips in a tube withdessicant (learned that from some good folks on this list). Here in 'Joiseyyou have to do things like that or you'll end up with a limp noodle insteadof a flyrod! Otherwise, "Clutter" s my middle name! I know there's at least onememberof this list who could attest to that. Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: GDAVIS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU [SMTP:GDAVIS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU]Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 11:35 AM Subject: bench clutter My bench is a mess! If I lay down strips 2-6 while I work #1, they coverup my tools and get mixed up. When they are mixed up, I'm mixed up too. Fortunately, I found a good solution; nothing earth-shattering, just agood solution for me. Near the back of my bench is a smallish, lidlesscardboard carton wherein I keep my assorted gluing supplies. One day I took arazor blade and cut six, 60 degree notches on the right and left sides of thatbox. Then I laid my strips in the notches, and my brain became less befuddled, permitting me to swallow another homebrew. My strips are safer nowthatthey are out of the way, and I can more easily work on them in a logicalprogression. Also, when it's time to stagger the spline joints (nodes having beenbandsawed out), the box holds the strips steadily and neatly with enamel up so I seethe effects of different spacings clearly. Right now I'm working on a Paul Young Midge; next will be a Para 15.Maybe a huge spey rod with old style taped joints (no ferrules) will follow that.Other plans: an 8' (maybe 9'?) slow rod for a cast of 3 soft hackle wets, aspin- casting rod with a pistol-grip handle for my wife's Zebco or that spinning rod ofVince Marinaro's ( I hear he gets lots of fishing done now that Hill StreetBlues is off the air :^). - Grayson from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Oct 7 11:06:27 1998 via smap(4.1) Subject: Streamside Photography All I wanted was one decent photo of myself with a fish in one hand, my bamboo rod held in the other, and an acceptable smile on my face. My pictures are back from my recent trip to the Steens and here is what I've got. 1) Fish was motionless right up to a split second before the shot was taken by brother-in-law. My cupped hand has nothing in it, and a small splash at my feet is the only proof a fish was ever there in the first place. 2) Very nice photo of me with a Desert Redside Trout and my 6' 4 wt. bamboo rod made on a Thramer taper. Unfortunately the pants I chose to wear that day had a nice split in the crotch, right about where the photo is centered. Definitely unacceptable for the office wall. 3) Tried to set up some delayed shutter self photo's while fishing a slot on the Little Blitzen river. Two out of three show me with a panicked look on my face and arms flailing as I struggle to get into place before the shutter clicks. Obviously the photo's reveal I didn't make it. I did manage to get nicely set up in one, only to be cut off from the shoulders up. 4) Brother-in-law made another attempt to photograph me with a fish. Unfortunately I had left the delayed shutter feature of the camera on from the prior photos and we didn't figure this out until 15 seconds later when the shutter clicked. Meanwhile camera was pointed somewhere towardthe sun. Streamside photography continues to elude me. I think it is more difficult then making bamboo rods. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from caneboy@xtn.net Wed Oct 7 11:28:45 1998 Subject: Critisism It is too bad that so few have to spoil it for others. Wayne and all,keep up the good work, your imput has been invaluable to me andcountless others like me.To the trouble makers or self appointed critcs that cause injury toothers, if you do not have something nice to say, do not say anything atall! from caneboy@xtn.net Wed Oct 7 11:33:11 1998 Subject: List If you start another list by invitation, may I please be included. Imay not have much to contribute except a few kind words. from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Wed Oct 7 12:17:06 1998 NAA17861 Subject: RE: Lessons Learned? I want to learn! Fighting I can do at home with the WIFE! Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 10:10 AM Subject: RE: Lessons Learned? AL, As a 1 week listee, I agree. I have printed of 2"of GOOD Stuffand have to file it all away. Us new guys are likesponges. We soak upalmost everything. Guys and Gals on the list have been morethan heplful.I even think my wife feels better about this bamboo stuffnow. I read thegood stuff while she watches the division playoffs. We eachhave our areasinterest. DaveDavid W. DoddConcepts GateKeepersBattleLab Integration, Technology and Concepts DirectorateDSN 680-3995 FAX 680-3445 from harry37@epix.net Wed Oct 7 13:00:55 1998 SMTP idOAA06957 Subject: Motors and parts source--Herbach and Rademan to the list-- I just received a catalog from herbach and Rademan, and was impressedwith the motors, controls, elements, etc, that it listed.I have seen different sources for motors, controls, and other variouselectronic controls posted from time to time, and i didn't rememberseeing a mention of them in the past. If anyone would like a phone # and/or address, contact me off-list. Greg from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Wed Oct 7 13:10:59 1998 OAA26274 Subject: RE: bench clutter Has anyone built a fly on Marinaro's tapers as described in the Ring of theRise? Not sure Hill St. Blues is re-running where he is, but I bet fishingis great! Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message-----From: GDAVIS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 11:35 AM Subject: bench clutter My bench is a mess! If I lay down strips 2-6 while I work#1, they cover up my tools and get mixed up. When they are mixed up, I'm mixedup too. Fortunately, I found a good solution; nothingearth-shattering, just a good solution for me. Near the back of my bench is a smallish,lidless cardboard carton wherein I keep my assorted gluing supplies. One dayI took a razor blade and cut six, 60 degree notches on the right and leftsides of that box. Then I laid my strips in the notches, and my brain becameless befuddled, permitting me to swallow another homebrew. My strips aresafer now that they are out of the way, and I can more easily work on them in alogical progression. Also, when it's time to stagger the spline joints (nodeshaving been bandsawed out), the box holds the strips steadily and neatly withenamel up so I see the effects of different spacings clearly. Right now I'm working on a Paul Young Midge; next will be aPara 15. Maybe a huge spey rod with old style taped joints (no ferrules) willfollow that. Other plans: an 8' (maybe 9'?) slow rod for a cast of 3 softhackle wets, a spin- casting rod with a pistol-grip handle for my wife's Zebco or thatspinning rod of Vince Marinaro's ( I hear he gets lots of fishing done now thatHill Street Blues is off the air :^). - Grayson from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Wed Oct 7 13:38:15 1998 OAA28539 Subject: RE: List Me also. Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 12:35 PM Subject: List If you start another list by invitation, may I please beincluded. Imay not have much to contribute except a few kind words. from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Wed Oct 7 13:47:41 1998 ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 06:47:40 +1200 Subject: Re: good news and bad news Last week I decided to ring a number of the old fishing tackle shops around New Zealand to enquire if they had any old boxes of brass " english style"ferrules in their back room somewhere . The closest I got to finding some was a shopowner who said they had a "garage sale" when they shifted location about 6 years ago and heremembers abox with about 150 Hardy ferrules in it " with splits in the end " and hethought it sold for about $30. I almost cried . The challenge now is to findthe buyer of that box in a city of about 300,000 people !!!! However that is not the pupose of this note. The same owner said he hadsomeguides in a shelf in his back room . He said they were the proper "silver"ones with glass insert rings . And he thought there were several boxes ,with a few hundred in box. Somewhat conveniently I had to visit that city this week so went to havealook at what he had . He could not find the boxes !!!!. He was fairly sure they were still around but his partner may have shiftedthem , and his partner was away fishing , (the season opened 1st OctoberinNZ) . He did find a few of them which were mixed with other guides forsalein the trays down the edge of the shop . They look like the real thing. They are in four different sizes, and thesmallest size would be too small for a modern fly line but ok for silk. Themetal has a "dull" look about it , not the bright look of new guides. Theglass insert is clear , looks almost like it may be plastic(?) , and infiling down the foot of one of the ones i purchased they are solid "silver"and do not have a bronze base like many of the British guides. I am now waiting for a call back from the owner to say he has found theboxes of guides. I am thinking I may buy the lot , subject to sorting out adecent price. However , and this is the purpose of this rather lengthy note , has anyonehad any experience with these sorts of guides , what are clear glassinsertslike ? ( it seems to me they are a lot heavier then snake eyes for the tipof a rod but then a lot the best old british rods have them ) , is thereany way to easily test the metal and/or glass. Is there anything I shouldwatch for ? Many thanks , in anticipation Iank Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz from fr.keulen@wxs.nl Wed Oct 7 14:17:57 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA35AD +0200 Subject: Re: Parabolic tapers Dear listmembers, A very straightforward question, probably been answered many times andlong ago:How necessary do you consider a binder? I was taught this beautiful art byanancient Dutch cane builder. He owns a Garrisson style binder but didn't useoneanymore.the reason being that once he had done the final planing, thedifferentstrips were so perfectly shaped and flat, that no extra power was neededto keepthem together during the gluing process. Extra power couldn't make themfit anybetter than perfect.Do you agree or was he overlooking anyhing? Rens Oosthoek from morten@flash.net Wed Oct 7 14:41:40 1998 Subject: Re: Parabolic tapers Rens, I have made 6 rods by now, and I don't have a binder. I use amodified Flexcoat hand rod wrapper. It works good, but it's VERY tireingto use. I need a binder. SOON. Morten from dhaftel@att.com Wed Oct 7 14:55:02 1998 sender att.com!dhaftel (att.com!dhaftel); Wed Oct 7 15:46 EDT 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) (5.5.2232.9) Subject: RE: Parabolic tapers You might want to try building Tom Smithwick's little binder. I saw itworkup in the Catskills at the gathering. It's simple and effective! He has apicture and description at his website athttp://members.aol.com/tsmithwick.I'm in the process of making one and once I get a hold of the end stops(retaining rings) for the pulleys it will be done. Good luck, Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Morten Lovstad [SMTP:morten@flash.net]Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 3:50 PM Subject: Re: Parabolic tapers Rens, I have made 6 rods by now, and I don't have a binder. I use amodified Flexcoat hand rod wrapper. It works good, but it's VERY tireingto use. I need a binder. SOON. Morten from RVenneri@aol.com Wed Oct 7 15:07:34 1998 Subject: Re: Parabolic tapers In a message dated 10/7/98 3:57:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time,dhaftel@att.comwrites: DennisIs the url you sent correct I got a file not found message. Bob V from dhaftel@att.com Wed Oct 7 15:29:31 1998 sender att.com!dhaftel (att.com!dhaftel); Wed Oct 7 15:29 CDT 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) (5.5.2232.9) Subject: RE: Parabolic tapers Hi Bob, Yeah, I just checked it and it worked. Maybe this one will work for you??? It's the text description of thebinder. http://members.aol.com/tsmithwick/binder.txt Dennis -----Original Message-----From: RVenneri@aol.com [SMTP:RVenneri@aol.com]Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 4:07 PM Subject: Re: Parabolic tapers In a message dated 10/7/98 3:57:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time,dhaftel@att.comwrites: DennisIs the url you sent correct I got a file not found message. Bob V from CALucker@aol.com Wed Oct 7 15:34:06 1998 Subject: Re: bench clutter In a message dated 10/7/98 11:13:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time,AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com writes: That's the idea behind EC Powell's "A" tapers. (EC's tippier, usually dry flytapers). The reverse is the idea behind EC's "C" tapers.Chris Lucker from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Wed Oct 7 16:50:53 1998 16:51:47-0500 R8.20.00.25) Subject: Re[2]: Cork Order Davy,If you can send your email address I would like to correspond with youregardingyour cork order. Since the list is a remailer the only email addressattached, at least as readable by my email system, is the rodmakers address. Youcan contact me at mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.eduThanks.Jon McAnulty ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Cork Order Author: at Internet-Mail David wrote: Here's what I have decided to do as regards the cork order. Since I'veonly gotten good recommendations for Cork Specialties in Miami, I'll sendthem an order for myself and anyone else who wants to get in. I'm thinking right now that I'd like to see the goods before I make morethan a token order, so about a dozen guys/gals making a very minimumorderwill be plenty. That way we can all get a reasonable idea of what toexpect and nobody will be out much if it turns out to be crap. Make sense? Thenif a sufficient number of people are happy with what they receive andwish to order a really serious quantity, we can do that a little later- as long as it doesn't interfere with steelheading. Their minimum order is $75.00, so we won't need very much to get thereif a half-dozen or so will send me their checks, say by the 15th or so. Thismight also be the way to go for somebody who will make a total of twoorthree (or one) rods and just wants to get a volume price. I will cash the checks, make the order, re-package and distribute the rings when theygethere, send them out to the participants and graciously ignore anycriticisms of my handling of the affair. The price for 1-1/8 inch dia. X 1/2 inch rings with 1/4 inch bore (yes, Igave up on the smaller holes) is $0.53 (fifty-three cents) so multiplythat five bucks (the lower number for a "sample" order, the greater if it'sgoing to be over a couple of pounds) If I get too much money (or cork) I willput a share of same, proportional to your contribution, in the package whichIwill send you. On a similar subject, since we all got the wordconcerning the accepted definition of "commercialism" I should get no flames inreturn comfort in the certain knowledge that I will not read them :-) Also, Ifyou need something right away, or if you need a large order, please order iton your own. Above the $75.00 minimum, there is no significant price break(5% Anybody who'se still interested, send me a private email and I'll get the thing going. In fact, if you go to Cork Specialties' website and seesomething else you want (They carry a selection of pre-formed grips) I'dbe happy to include same in the order. http://www.corkgrips.com Got to shut down- major lightning close by. Davy Davy Where can I order from? Do I send to you if I'd like to get in on this order? Mark Hallowell from sjstill@iquest.net Wed Oct 7 17:04:38 1998 0000 (209.43.48.252) Subject: Granger Champion Taper HI All, Forget who wanted this, but here 'tis. First time I've ever measured off arod, so be kind if I messed it up! This is over varnish on a 1924-1934 era9' 3/2 rod. tip mid butt0 top fer fer5 .093 .203 .28110 .117 .225 .31115 .133 .237 .31220 .147 .251 .32425 .163 .260 .339 (.363@26, .394@27, .404@27.5)30 .178 .262 cork35 .184 .265 cork Pretty dramatic swelled butt I think! I would deduct .004 for the varnish.The 35" measurement on the tip and mid was actually just above theferrulewrap, so call it 34 and change. I like you guys, but I ain't gonna takethis baby apart to measure it Steve Steve and Julie Stillabower, Indianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net from dmcfall@ODYSSEE.NET Wed Oct 7 17:24:57 1998 Subject: smithwick binder url Go to http://members.aol.com/tsmithwick/ that works Dave M from lblan@provide.net Wed Oct 7 17:57:35 1998 Subject: RE: Motors and parts source--Herbach and Rademan Unless I'm mistaken, the url appears on Jerry's page. -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 2:01 PM Subject: Motors and parts source--Herbach and Rademan to the list-- I just received a catalog from herbach and Rademan, and was impressedwith the motors, controls, elements, etc, that it listed.I have seen different sources for motors, controls, and other variouselectronic controls posted from time to time, and i didn't rememberseeing a mention of them in the past. If anyone would like a phone # and/or address, contact me off-list. Greg from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Oct 7 18:00:40 1998 Subject: Re: Parabolic tapers Dennis, try a battery terminal. Sounds goofy, but I found one that fitsjust right. I push it up against the spring, and tighten it. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Haftel, Dennis Jay Subject: RE: Parabolic tapersDate: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 12:51 PM You might want to try building Tom Smithwick's little binder. I saw itworkup in the Catskills at the gathering. It's simple and effective! He hasapicture and description at his website athttp://members.aol.com/tsmithwick.I'm in the process of making one and once I get a hold of the end stops(retaining rings) for the pulleys it will be done. Good luck, Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Morten Lovstad [SMTP:morten@flash.net]Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 3:50 PM Subject: Re: Parabolic tapers Rens, I have made 6 rods by now, and I don't have a binder. I use amodified Flexcoat hand rod wrapper. It works good, but it's VERYtireingto use. I need a binder. SOON. Morten from Fallcreek9@aol.com Wed Oct 7 18:22:39 1998 Subject: Re: Motors and parts source--Herbach and Rademan In a message dated 10/7/98 1:09:30 PM Central Daylight Time,harry37@epix.netwrites: Greg: I would appreciate the phone number. Also, reference my postsaboutthe source for V-Blocke. Mike Biondo e-mailed me off list and said it wasokto post the source, so you might avoid a lot (and I mean a lot) of off-linemessages by putting it on the list. If you would be more comfortablegettingthis from Mike, you can contact him at : michael@wugate.wustl.edu Regards and Thanks,Richard from jczimny@dol.net Wed Oct 7 20:34:18 1998 Subject: Re: Parabolic tapers Yes, I believe that he was overlooking the fact that some adhesivesrequire acertain amount of clamping pressure to avoid a failure. For instance, epoxyformulations generally require little or no clamping pressure whereasurea-formaldehydes require a good bit of clamping pressure.John Zimny F. Keulen wrote: Dear listmembers, A very straightforward question, probably been answered many timesand long ago:How necessary do you consider a binder? I was taught this beautiful art ancient Dutch cane builder. He owns a Garrisson style binder but didn'tuse oneanymore.the reason being that once he had done the final planing, thedifferentstrips were so perfectly shaped and flat, that no extra power was neededto keepthem together during the gluing process. Extra power couldn't make themfit anybetter than perfect.Do you agree or was he overlooking anyhing? Rens Oosthoek from Canerods@aol.com Wed Oct 7 20:40:28 1998 Subject: Re: Wayne Cattanach a true gentleman Bret, 100% ditto's from me. Wayne, I've recently returned from a fishing vacation and haven't caught upwith all the email and don't quite know what the heck is happening, but toWayne (and others too) - thanks for the help and encourgagement. Sorry ifthelist flow doesn't appeal to you anymore. IMHO, if the list is changing it's because the next generation of makers arecoming on-line and they're asking questions that might seem like oldnews.Again, IMHO the greatest thing that the "old-timers" can do for the"younger"set is to hang in there - despite all the "dumb" questions. I for one stillhave a lot of them stored up and unanswered despite not being a memberof the"youth set" (hit 51 in June) anymore. More than willing to lift a brew (homemade?), or wet a fly, with anyonefromthe list. Don Burns PS - Praying to make Grayrock 99. from Canerods@aol.com Wed Oct 7 20:40:45 1998 Subject: Re: In a message dated 10/6/98 11:10:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time,sniderja@email.uc.edu writes: Plus we all need make a pilgrimage to Grayrock once in our live's, crawl onour knees (with a cane rod in hand) and partake of the waters of StWayne'sholy shrine. Don Burns from Canerods@aol.com Wed Oct 7 20:41:10 1998 Subject: WTD:Payne 204 taper All: I received a copy of the cane rod list put out by the widow of Phil Snyder(with help from Chris Lucker et al) and did a quick phone call. So 3 out of 4of my first round draft picks were already sold. I did draft (purchase) thefinal top pick - a mid/tip plus bag/tube from a Payne 204. Does anyone have a taper for the 204 butt section? Or a spare butt from a204? Don Burns PS - No, I won't turn it into a banty. Maybe I'd make a banty extentionhandle from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Oct 7 21:42:12 1998 Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:42:00 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: RE: bench clutter On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Hanzich, Al (MLPT) wrote: Has anyone built a fly on Marinaro's tapers as described in the Ring oftheRise? Not sure Hill St. Blues is re-running where he is, but I bet fishingis great! Al Hanzich732-878-6567 This question comes up once in a while but it seems that the tapers are unavailable, unless they sudenly have become so. from memory Marinaro's perfect rod was a 9' 4oz rod?Who was it mentioned on this list he was making decent rods but mixing and matching tips and butts of different tapers? That was more or less what Marinaro was doing. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from gwr@seanet.com Wed Oct 7 21:43:01 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA01491 for; Wed, Subject: Re: WTD:Payne 204 taper boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01BDF22B.253CD0A0" part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BDF22B.253CD0A0 boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0013_01BDF22B.253CD0A0" ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01BDF22B.253CD0A0 Hi Don, I don't have a 204 taper precisely, but I do have the butt taper for =another Payne 8'6" 3/2 rod, the "Canadian Canoe Rod." I'm under the =impression that the CCR was a slightly heavier rod than the standard 204=(I could be completely off my rocker). It may be of some assistance in =approximating the butt you need. 0 - .3855 - .38510 - .38515 - .33320 - .31125 - .30030 - .28934 - .275 Subtract about .006 for varnish. Best of luck with your latest acquisition! Russ Golden Witch Rods - "Tools For Natural Philosophy"Golden Witch Technologies, Inc. - "The Golden Age Is Now"gwr@seanet.comhttp://www.goldenwitch.com -----Original Message-----From: Canerods@aol.com Date: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 6:46 PMSubject: WTD:Payne 204 taper All: I received a copy of the cane rod list put out by the widow of Phil =Snyder(with help from Chris Lucker et al) and did a quick phone call. So 3 =out of 4of my first round draft picks were already sold. I did draft =(purchase) the Does anyone have a taper for the 204 butt section? Or a spare butt = from a 204? Don Burns PS - No, I won't turn it into a banty. Maybe I'd make a banty =extention handle ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01BDF22B.253CD0A0 Hi Don, don't = taper precisely, but I do have the butt taper for another Payne = CCR was a slightly heavier rod than the standard 204 (I could be = = need. .385 Subtract about .006 for =varnish. acquisition! Russ = "Tools For Natural Philosophy"Golden Witch -----Original = Canerods@aol.com rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Wednesday, October 07, 1998 6:46 PMSubject:WTD:Payne = taperAll:I received a copy of the cane = put out by the widow of Phil Snyder(with help from Chris Lucker = and did a quick phone call. So 3 out of 4of my first round draft = were already sold. I did draft (purchase) thefinal top pick - a = plus bag/tube from a Payne 204. Does anyone have a taper for = BurnsPS - No, I won't turn it into a banty. Maybe I'd make a = Payne. ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01BDF22B.253CD0A0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BDF22B.253CD0A0 name="Golden Witch.vcf" filename="Golden Witch.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDN:Gooding;John;R.FN:Golden WitchORG:Golden WitchTITLE:Rod Maker &c.TEL;WORK;VOICE:(425) 787- 6599TEL;PAGER;VOICE:noneTEL;WORK;FAX:noneADR;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A;Lynnwood;WA;98037;USALABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A=3D0D=3D0ALynnwood, WA =98037=3D0D=3D0AUSAURL:noneURL:http://www.goldenwitch.comEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:gwr@seanet.comEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BDF22B.253CD0A0-- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Oct 7 21:45:37 1998 Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:45:29 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Parabolic tapers On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, F. Keulen wrote: Dear listmembers, A very straightforward question, probably been answered many timesand long ago:How necessary do you consider a binder? I was taught this beautiful art ancient Dutch cane builder. He owns a Garrisson style binder but didn'tuse oneanymore.the reason being that once he had done the final planing, thedifferentstrips were so perfectly shaped and flat, that no extra power was neededto keepthem together during the gluing process. Extra power couldn't make themfit anybetter than perfect.Do you agree or was he overlooking anyhing? Rens Oosthoek I'm messed about with a few different types of binders and now bind by hand as while the binders have worked ok I never saw any real advantage apart from getting less glue on myself. Takes about as long and you can control twist. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from lblan@provide.net Wed Oct 7 21:52:34 1998 Subject: RE: "Wayne's Holy Shrine" If you truly want to visit the Holy Shrine as it exists for Wayne, you'llwant to head a bit further north, to the Jordan. Here, you will gain insightand understanding..... and perhaps add to your vocabulary in the process.Just ask Mike Biondo! :)) -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Canerods@aol.comSent: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 9:40 PM Subject: Re: In a message dated 10/6/98 11:10:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time,sniderja@email.uc.edu writes: Date: 10/6/98 11:10:46 AM Pacific Daylight TimeFrom: sniderja@email.uc.edu (Jerry Snider)Sender: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Gospel and in all Cattanach,a.k.a Jackpine genuine nice guy, shall convey the privilege of being being left alone, if that is his with it only one obligation; that he friend. For his friendship is treasured at his wisdomand experience, priceless commodities on their Since I lay claim to introducing the term, most reverently, St. Wayne, Iwill be the first to contribute to a baseball type cap, preferably forestgreen with a tan leather bill, to be embroderied (sp?) in gold stitching,"St. Wayne." (As we all know, the patron saint of amateurrodbuilders). Towhom do I send the check?Unfortunately, my own such cap is embroderied "Trout Grouch" (and mostappropriately so, I might add!). Plus we all need make a pilgrimage to Grayrock once in ourlive's, crawl onour knees (with a cane rod in hand) and partake of the waters ofSt Wayne'sholy shrine. Don Burns from channer@hubwest.com Thu Oct 8 00:21:56 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AC4A27C20114; Wed, 07 Oct 1998 23:23:22 MDT Subject: Re: Granger Champion Taper At 05:04 PM 10/7/98 -0500, you wrote:HI All, Forget who wanted this, but here 'tis. First time I've ever measured off arod, so be kind if I messed it up! This is over varnish on a 1924-1934 era9' 3/2 rod. tip mid butt0 top fer fer5 .093 .203 .28110 .117 .225 .31115 .133 .237 .31220 .147 .251 .32425 .163 .260 .339 (.363@26, .394@27, .404@27.5)30 .178 .262 cork35 .184 .265 cork Pretty dramatic swelled butt I think! I would deduct .004 for the varnish.The 35" measurement on the tip and mid was actually just above theferrulewrap, so call it 34 and change. I like you guys, but I ain't gonna takethis baby apart to measure it Steve Steve and Julie Stillabower, Indianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net Steve;Nice of you to post the taper! A couple of suggestions: measure the rodwith it put together and start at the tip and measure all the way to theend of the rod. If guides and ferrules are in the way at the 5" increments,measure just above or below and make a note of the distance. This makesitmuch easier to enter in Hexrod and the program will figure out thedimension under the obstacle. Also, measure right below the tip top, thedimensions can change dramatically in the first 5" of the tip section. John Channerchanner@hubwest.com from channer@hubwest.com Thu Oct 8 00:31:24 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AE7B27DC0114; Wed, 07 Oct 1998 23:32:43 MDT Subject: Re: Parabolic tapers At 09:25 PM 10/7/98 -0400, you wrote:Yes, I believe that he was overlooking the fact that some adhesivesrequire acertain amount of clamping pressure to avoid a failure. For instance,epoxyformulations generally require little or no clamping pressure whereasurea-formaldehydes require a good bit of clamping pressure.John Zimny John;This an interesting poit to me. I am in the process of scarfing the tipssections on the 7'6" Gene Edwards rod I got earlier this summer, they areboth 5" short and I felt that they wouldn't work the way they weresupposedto if I just mounted tip tops on what was left. I am using Epon andwrappedthem tight with thread the way the books say to. do you think I might haveover clamped them ? I scarfed one tip section on the first rod I madeabouttwo years ago this way, but I used Urac at the time. I have had no problemwith it and have fished it hard and caught quite a few large trout on theSan Juan with it. Both rods I scarfed at the second guide, so they areoverwrapped with the guide wraps. I would like to know if you think theEpon will hold up as well as the Urac scarf has. Thanks John Channer from ragnarig@integrityol.com Thu Oct 8 05:41:08 1998 (SMTPD32-4.04) id A8FAED2006A; Thu, 08 Oct 1998 03:50:34 PDT Subject: Re: cork As I find myself working pretty much round the clock this week, I'm afraidIdon't have time for answering all my mail Or sleeping. Everybody whowantscork, and can't find my previous post regarding cost, etc. bear with me afew days and I promise I'll get it all together this weekend. Right after Iget back from the Yakima. OK, before. But it'll be brief :-) Davy from doddd@monroe.army.mil Thu Oct 8 06:32:40 1998 (5.5.2232.9) Subject: RE: cork Davy, No problem. Remember Yakima from my Army days. 160 straightdaysof helicopter maintenance round the clock, high winds in March, alwayslooking for rattlers, and the great fruit my 4 year old and I would pick. Later,DaveDavid W. DoddConcepts GateKeepersBattleLab Integration, Technology and Concepts DirectorateDSN 680-3995 FAX 680-3445 from LambersonW@missouri.edu Thu Oct 8 08:02:06 1998 (5.5.2232.9) Subject: RE: V-Block Richard - I did the final milling on a set of strips for the butt of a PaulYoung Midge last night. I used one of the tip anvils since they are sonarrow. It only took half an hour to do the milling and when I finished thedimensions were identical. It was amazing. I measured width at threespotsalong the strip and there wasn't variation of one thousandth across the sixstrips at any of the three. I couldn't be happier with the results. I bet if you set up one of the Medved router mills to rough out thestrips you could really turn out the rods with this mill. Tom tells me that yours will be shipped next week. I bet you have agreat time with it. Has Wayne contacted you about powering it? I don'tknow that I am ready to go that route yet, I'd like to build some rods toget a better feel of the bamboo first, but I thought you might beinterested. Bill -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, October 05, 1998 5:18 PM Subject: V-Block List Members:The V-Block is supplied by John Long @ 313-420-0267 Hope he has a good supply in stock. Regards,RTyree Ps - Mike 'List Guy' said I could do this on the list. from tom@cet-inc.com Thu Oct 8 08:08:01 1998 Subject: Re: bench clutter (Marinaro rods) Al and Tony,The Marinaro tapers will be available in the near future. I am part of agroup in Central PA who has an agreement with the family to acquireVince'scollection to be a part of a PA Fly Fishing Center & Museum. I gave apresentation on Vince's rods at the Roscoe Gathering. I also took along arod that I had built on one of his tapers (6'6" Guppy). So far I have"miked" four of the rods. In measuring them, I start to better understandwhat he was talking about in the "Ring". Actually, two more rods have beenfound by the family since my presentation at Roscoe. Our intent is to publish a book on Vince's rods to raise $ for the Museum.Sorry, I wish I could start sharing the tapers right now. If you want moreinformation about the Center & Museum, email me off list. Tom Whittletom@cet-inc.com ps. good memory Tony, Vince's favorite trout rod was a 9'4" 4oz. for 7 wt.-- ---Original Message----- Subject: RE: bench clutter On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Hanzich, Al (MLPT) wrote: Has anyone built a fly on Marinaro's tapers as described in the Ring oftheRise? Al Hanzich732-878-6567 This question comes up once in a while but it seems that the tapers areunavailable, unless they sudenly have become so. from memory Marinaro's perfect rod was a 9' 4oz rod? from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Thu Oct 8 08:19:55 1998 (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id OAA13117 for ;Thu, 8 Oct1998 14:20:34 +0100 Subject: Re: St. Wayne boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0149_01BDF2C6.6E498400" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0149_01BDF2C6.6E498400 That's a very nice gesture Harry (er, Reverend Boyd). Your about as =close to a proper authority for such things as this demonic list is =likely to attract, and what the Pope doesn't know about, shouldn't worry =him. Let no man say nay. St.Wayne it must be. I have another idea (audible groans from off stage). Wayne Cattanach =honoured (English spelling) Sir Darryl Hayashida by naming a rod series =after him - the Sir.D rods, of repute. How about it if, quid pro quo, =someone (Darryl?) makes a St. Wayne series? JC.-----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd =Cattanach Date: 06 October 1998 17:55Subject: Re: Apology Thank you for your injection of reason into this hapless debate. =I agree completely, and I think I have a possible solution, though it = If I remember correctly, as a loyal subject of the queen of =England you took it upon yourself to "knight" Mr. Hayashida for some =kindness or generosity he had shown you, and it is rightful that you did =so. For several days there was great enjoyment on the part of all at =your own kindness and generosity. Then, without fanfare, and in an act = As a resident of the lowly state of Louisiana, in the country =you still think of as "the colonies," I have no authority to grant = But I am also a minister of the Gospel. As a rebel Baptist, =faithful to the tradition of the Radical Reformation, I am not =completely familiar with canonical law. At least one post this morning =has mentioned Mr. Cattanach as "St. Wayne". I hope you will allow me = First, my understanding is that before a person can be =considered for sainthood, he (or she) must be deceased. I do not in any = Second, I recall that the candidate for sainthood must have in =his lifetime been a party to at least three verifiable miracles. I =personally saw Wayne Cattanach perform many more than three miracles = A. He (with the help of an un-named navigator) transformed =the trip from St. Louis to Mtn. Home from a journey of a few hours into =an arduous journey of epic proportions worthy of the best efforts of = B. On a more serious note, he convinced a conglomeration of =everything from wanna-be's to has-been's that they, too, really could =make a flyrod. Imparting such faith surely warrants the status of = C. He convinced me and several others who have built a rod or =two that we can move from imitators to innovators; that our efforts are = Other miracles might include the way he transformed the 13 inch =rainbow I caught while under his observation into a 17 inch vehemoth, = Third, a saint is one who is recognized as having lived a =virtuous life and directed others to do the same. The candidate for =canonical status is certainly a worthy example to be followed in his = Therefore, without further ado, upon my authority as a servant =of the Gospel of Flyfishing and Rodmaking, I do declare that it be =known here and in all parts unknown that from this day forward, Mr. =Wayne Cattanach, a.k.a Jackpine Rodmaker, Jackpine Buddha, Sensei, =friend, mentor, and genuine nice guy, shall be deemed "St. Wayne." =That nomenclature shall convey the privilege of being known throughout =Rodmakingdom as worthy of being left alone, if that is his desire. That =designation shall carry with it only one obligation; that he continue to =be himself, and be our friend. For his friendship is treasured at least =as highly as his wisdom and experience, priceless commodities on their = (an appelation I use only in the most important correspondence, = Dr. Maclean was absolutely correct in that there is no clear =line between religion and flyfishing. Perhaps that thought should = PS - Russ and others, hope this is taken in the spirit it is meant, = Wayne and all. Johnny has been big enough to apologise publicly for =his error - a hard thing to do. I do hope that the open list can now =recover its calm. Wayne, I hope particularly that you can accept that =the error has been corrected, and that this is the right place for your =much-valued expertise to be shared. A lot of folks will be pleased and =relieved to hear you say that this unfortunate business has now = Subject: Apology - Was: Bamboo Only Guide Service SurveyHi =folks, ------=_NextPart_000_0149_01BDF2C6.6E498400 That's a very nice gesture Harry = Boyd). Your about as close to a proper authority for such things as this = list is likely to attract, and what the Pope doesn't know about, = him. Let no man say nay. St.Wayne it must be. I have another idea (audible groans from off stage).= Cattanach honoured (English spelling) Sir Darryl Hayashida by naming a = series after him - the Sir.D rods, of repute. How about it if, quid pro = someone (Darryl?) makes a St. Wayne series? JC. -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= October 1998 17:55Subject: Re: = possible solution, though it will doubtlessly embarass Mr. = queen of England you took it upon yourself to "knight" Mr. = Hayashida for some kindness or generosity he had shown you, and it = rightful that you did so. For several days there was great enjoyment = fanfare, and in an act of great humility, the "Sir" = Louisiana, in the country you still think of as "the = tradition of the Radical Reformation, I am not completely familiar = canonical law. At least one post this morning has mentioned Mr. = the trip from St. Louis to Mtn. Home from a journey of a few hours = arduous journey of epic proportions worthy of the best efforts of = he convinced a conglomeration of everything from wanna-be's to = or two that we can move from imitators to innovators; that our = the 13 inch rainbow I caught while under his observation into a 17 = candidate for canonical status is certainly a worthy example to be = it be known here and in all parts unknown that from this day = Wayne Cattanach, a.k.a Jackpine Rodmaker, Jackpine Buddha, Sensei, = being known throughout Rodmakingdom as worthy of being left alone, = friendship is treasured at least as highly as his wisdom and = PS - Russ and others, hope this is taken in the spirit it is = apologise publicly for his error - a hard thing to do. I do hope = the open list can now recover its calm. Wayne, I hope = you can accept that the error has been corrected, and that this = right place for your much-valued expertise to be shared. A lot = will be pleased and relieved to hear you say that this = <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Date: 06 = Apology - Was: Bamboo Only Guide Service = ------=_NextPart_000_0149_01BDF2C6.6E498400-- from gwr@seanet.com Thu Oct 8 08:37:58 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA18924 for; Thu, Subject: Re: good news and bad news boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003A_01BDF284.CDA09520" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01BDF284.CDA09520 boundary="----=_NextPart_001_003B_01BDF284.CDA09520" ------=_NextPart_001_003B_01BDF284.CDA09520 Hi Ian, I checked into your guides. The clear inserts are most likely good =quality agatine (glass, but we rod makers prefer the ring of the word =agatine). Why good quality? Because someone bothered to put them in =nickel silver frames rather than chrome plated brass. The frames should =polish up beautifully. However, be careful as the bezel, even on many =high quality guides in nickel silver frames, is often constructed of =plated brass. It doesn't take much polishing to wear through the =plating on the bezel. Hardy was, I believe, one of the few companies to =use these clear agatines in commercial production. As for using them to run the whole way out the rod, look at Mike =Maxwell's modern Spey rods. He uses little baitcasting guides rather =than snakes and, if you like his actions, they work just fine. This =would make a good experiment - build up two "identical" blanks and =outfit one with a stripper and snakes, one with agatines only. Hope the shop owner finds them for you. Russ Golden Witch Rods - "Tools For Natural Philosophy"Golden Witch Technologies, Inc. - "The Golden Age Is Now"gwr@seanet.comhttp://www.goldenwitch.com However that is not the pupose of this note. The same owner said he =had someguides in a shelf in his back room . He said they were the proper ="silver"ones with glass insert rings . And he thought there were several =boxes , Somewhat conveniently I had to visit that city this week so went to =have alook at what he had . He could not find the boxes !!!!. He was fairly sure they were still around but his partner may have =shiftedthem , and his partner was away fishing , (the season opened 1st =October inNZ) . He did find a few of them which were mixed with other guides = They look like the real thing. They are in four different sizes, and =thesmallest size would be too small for a modern fly line but ok for =silk. Themetal has a "dull" look about it , not the bright look of new =guides. Theglass insert is clear , looks almost like it may be plastic(?) , and =infiling down the foot of one of the ones i purchased they are solid ="silver" I am now waiting for a call back from the owner to say he has found =theboxes of guides. I am thinking I may buy the lot , subject to =sorting out adecent price. However , and this is the purpose of this rather lengthy note , has =anyonehad any experience with these sorts of guides , what are clear glass =insertslike ? ( it seems to me they are a lot heavier then snake eyes for =the tipof a rod but then a lot the best old british rods have them ) , is =thereany way to easily test the metal and/or glass. Is there anything I =shouldwatch for ? Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374 New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz ------=_NextPart_001_003B_01BDF284.CDA09520 Hi Ian, guides in nickel silver frames, is often constructed of plated = doesn't take much polishing to wear through the plating on the = Hardy was, I believe, one of the few companies to use these clear = commercial production. As for using them to run the whole way out the rod,look = a good experiment - build up two "identical" blanks and outfit = with a stripper and snakes, one with agatines only. the = finds them for you. Russ = "Tools For Natural Philosophy"Golden Witch someguides in a shelf in his back room . He said they were the = there were several boxes ,with a few hundred in box. = conveniently I had to visit that city this week so went to have = what he had . He could not find the boxes !!!!.He was fairly = they were still around but his partner may have shiftedthem , = partner was away fishing , (the season opened 1st October inNZ) = find a few of them which were mixed with other guides for salein = trays down the edge of the shop . They look like the real = They are in four different sizes, and thesmallest size would be = Theglass insert is clear , looks almost like it may be = infiling down the foot of one of the ones i purchased they are = "silver"and do not have a bronze base like many of the = guides. I am now waiting for a call back from the owner to = has found theboxes of guides. I am thinking I may buy the lot , = to sorting out adecent price.However , and this is the = of this rather lengthy note , has anyonehad any experience with = sorts of guides , what are clear glass insertslike ? ( it seems = they are a lot heavier then snake eyes for the tipof a rod but = easily test the metal and/or glass. Is there anything I = ?Many thanks , in anticipation Iank Ian = ------=_NextPart_001_003B_01BDF284.CDA09520-- ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01BDF284.CDA09520 name="Golden Witch.vcf" filename="Golden Witch.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDN:Gooding;John;R.FN:Golden WitchORG:Golden WitchTITLE:Rod Maker &c.TEL;WORK;VOICE:(425) 787- 6599TEL;PAGER;VOICE:noneTEL;WORK;FAX:noneADR;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A;Lynnwood;WA;98037;USALABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A=3D0D=3D0ALynnwood, WA =98037=3D0D=3D0AUSAURL:noneURL:http://www.goldenwitch.comEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:gwr@seanet.comEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01BDF284.CDA09520-- from gwr@seanet.com Thu Oct 8 08:42:59 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA19044 for; Thu, Subject: Re: St. Wayne boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005A_01BDF287.6B849640" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005A_01BDF287.6B849640 boundary="----=_NextPart_001_005B_01BDF287.6B849640" ------=_NextPart_001_005B_01BDF287.6B849640 Just thought I'd pipe up John, so you know not to expect a reply from =Sir Darryl H. He quit the list last week in response to the posts of =Terry A. (to make a long story very short, I won't delve into details). Russ -----Original Message-----From: J.Cooper Date: Thursday, October 08, 1998 6:24 AMSubject: Re: St. Wayne That's a very nice gesture Harry (er, Reverend Boyd). Your about as =close to a proper authority for such things as this demonic list is =likely to attract, and what the Pope doesn't know about, shouldn't worry =him. Let no man say nay. St.Wayne it must be. I have another idea (audible groans from off stage). Wayne Cattanach =honoured (English spelling) Sir Darryl Hayashida by naming a rod series =after him - the Sir.D rods, of repute. How about it if, quid pro quo, =someone (Darryl?) makes a St. Wayne series? JC.-----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd Wayne Cattanach Date: 06 October 1998 17:55Subject: Re: Apology Thank you for your injection of reason into this hapless =debate. I agree completely, and I think I have a possible solution, = If I remember correctly, as a loyal subject of the queen of =England you took it upon yourself to "knight" Mr. Hayashida for some =kindness or generosity he had shown you, and it is rightful that you did =so. For several days there was great enjoyment on the part of all at =your own kindness and generosity. Then, without fanfare, and in an act = As a resident of the lowly state of Louisiana, in the =country you still think of as "the colonies," I have no authority to = But I am also a minister of the Gospel. As a rebel Baptist, =faithful to the tradition of the Radical Reformation, I am not =completely familiar with canonical law. At least one post this morning =has mentioned Mr. Cattanach as "St. Wayne". I hope you will allow me = First, my understanding is that before a person can be =considered for sainthood, he (or she) must be deceased. I do not in any = Second, I recall that the candidate for sainthood must have =in his lifetime been a party to at least three verifiable miracles. I =personally saw Wayne Cattanach perform many more than three miracles = A. He (with the help of an un-named navigator) =transformed the trip from St. Louis to Mtn. Home from a journey of a few =hours into an arduous journey of epic proportions worthy of the best = B. On a more serious note, he convinced a conglomeration =of everything from wanna-be's to has-been's that they, too, really could =make a flyrod. Imparting such faith surely warrants the status of = C. He convinced me and several others who have built a =rod or two that we can move from imitators to innovators; that our =efforts are progressing in the right direction. I think that is = Other miracles might include the way he transformed the 13 =inch rainbow I caught while under his observation into a 17 inch = Third, a saint is one who is recognized as having lived a =virtuous life and directed others to do the same. The candidate for =canonical status is certainly a worthy example to be followed in his = Therefore, without further ado, upon my authority as a =servant of the Gospel of Flyfishing and Rodmaking, I do declare that it =be known here and in all parts unknown that from this day forward, Mr. =Wayne Cattanach, a.k.a Jackpine Rodmaker, Jackpine Buddha, Sensei, =friend, mentor, and genuine nice guy, shall be deemed "St. Wayne." =That nomenclature shall convey the privilege of being known throughout =Rodmakingdom as worthy of being left alone, if that is his desire. That =designation shall carry with it only one obligation; that he continue to =be himself, and be our friend. For his friendship is treasured at least =as highly as his wisdom and experience, priceless commodities on their = (an appelation I use only in the most important = Dr. Maclean was absolutely correct in that there is no clear =line between religion and flyfishing. Perhaps that thought should = PS - Russ and others, hope this is taken in the spirit it is = Wayne and all. Johnny has been big enough to apologise publicly = recover its calm. Wayne, I hope particularly that you can accept that =the error has been corrected, and that this is the right place for your =much- valued expertise to be shared. A lot of folks will be pleased and =relieved to hear you say that this unfortunate business has now = Subject: Apology - Was: Bamboo Only Guide Service =SurveyHi folks, ------=_NextPart_001_005B_01BDF287.6B849640 Just thought I'd pipe up = in response to the posts of Terry A. (to make a long story very short, I = delve into details). Russ -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Wayne That's a very nice gestureHarry = Reverend Boyd). Your about as close to a proper authority for such = this demonic list is likely to attract, and what the Pope doesn't = be. I have another idea (audible groans from off = Cattanach honoured (English spelling) Sir Darryl Hayashida by naming = series after him - the Sir.D rods, of repute. How about it if, quid = someone (Darryl?) makes a St. Wayne series? JC. rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= correctly, as a loyal subject of the queen of England you took = yourself to "knight" Mr. Hayashida for some kindness = generosity he had shown you, and it is rightful that you did so. = several days there was great enjoyment on the part of all at = the country you still think of as "the colonies," I = tradition of the Radical Reformation, I am not completely = can be considered for sainthood, he (or she) must be = must have in his lifetime been a party to at least three = un-named navigator) transformed the trip from St. Louis to Mtn. = convinced a conglomeration of everything from wanna-be's to = rod or two that we can move from imitators to innovators; that = he transformed the 13 inch rainbow I caught while under his = candidate for canonical status is certainly a worthy example to = declare that it be known here and in all parts unknown that from = day forward, Mr. Wayne Cattanach, a.k.a Jackpine Rodmaker, = Buddha, Sensei, friend, mentor, and genuine nice guy, shall be = privilege of being known throughout Rodmakingdom as worthy of = most important correspondence, reference some of my recent = thought should invade our minds before we press the = PS - Russ and others, hope this is taken in the spirit it is = been big enough to apologise publicly for his error - a hard = to do. I do hope that the open list can now recover its = I hope particularly that you can accept that the error has = corrected, and that this is the right place for your = expertise to be shared. A lot of folks will be pleased and = to hear you say that this unfortunate business has now = <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Date: 06 = 15:41 Subject: Apology - Was: Bamboo Only = SurveyHi = ------=_NextPart_001_005B_01BDF287.6B849640-- ------=_NextPart_000_005A_01BDF287.6B849640 name="Golden Witch.vcf" filename="Golden Witch.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDN:Gooding;John;R.FN:Golden WitchORG:Golden WitchTITLE:Rod Maker &c.TEL;WORK;VOICE:(425) 787- 6599TEL;PAGER;VOICE:noneTEL;WORK;FAX:noneADR;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite#2B=3D0D=3D0A;Lynnwood;WA;98037;USAxLABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A=3D0D=3D0ALynnwood, WA =98037=3D0D=3D0AUSAURL:noneURL:http://www.goldenwitch.comEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:gwr@seanet.comEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_005A_01BDF287.6B849640-- from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Thu Oct 8 09:11:38 1998 KAA16404 Subject: RE: bench clutter You are correct, his perfect rod was the 9", 4 oz. His book never gavetapers just a generic discussion on his idea's. Was funny, e-mailedmentioned Ed Marinaro, didn't know he made fly rods! Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 10:42 PM Cc: 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'Subject: RE: bench clutter On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Hanzich, Al (MLPT) wrote: Has anyone built a fly on Marinaro's tapers as describedin the Ring of theRise? Not sure Hill St. Blues is re-running where he is,but I bet fishingis great! Al Hanzich732-878-6567 This question comes up once in a while but it seems that thetapers are unavailable, unless they sudenly have become so. from memory Marinaro's perfect rod was a 9' 4oz rod?Who was it mentioned on this list he was making decent rodsbut mixing and matching tips and butts of different tapers? That wasmore or less what Marinaro was doing. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Thu Oct 8 09:28:02 1998 0400 Subject: Wooden planing forms I am about to make a wooden planing form using Tony Young's design, andI am wondering if anyone has any experience with using a jointer to cutthe bevels. I have an old Delta 6" jointer which can be set to cut1/32" (or possibly less); so, if I set the fence at the correct angle,and if my trigonometry is correct (big if!), I should be able to cut atone pass a bevel running from 0" to .062" in depth. (You get the taper second pass would take it either from .031 - .094 or from 0 - .094,depending on how I start the cut. And so on. Anybody done this? Doesit work? from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Oct 8 09:45:16 1998 Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:44:46 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Parabolic tapers certain amount of clamping pressure to avoid a failure. For instance,epoxyformulations generally require little or no clamping pressure whereasurea-formaldehydes require a good bit of clamping pressure.John Zimny John;This an interesting poit to me. I am in the process of scarfing the tipssections on the 7'6" Gene Edwards rod I got earlier this summer, they areboth 5" short and I felt that they wouldn't work the way they weresupposedto if I just mounted tip tops on what was left. I am using Epon andwrappedthem tight with thread the way the books say to. do you think I mighthaveover clamped them ? I scarfed one tip section on the first rod I madeabouttwo years ago this way, but I used Urac at the time. I have had noproblemwith it and have fished it hard and caught quite a few large trout on theSan Juan with it. Both rods I scarfed at the second guide, so they areoverwrapped with the guide wraps. I would like to know if you think theEpon will hold up as well as the Urac scarf has. Thanks John Channer Not wanting to jump over JZ, particually on the subject of glues but the Epon is a superior glue for scarfing like this than UF. IMHO. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from harry37@epix.net Thu Oct 8 09:50:25 1998 SMTP idKAA11832; Subject: Re: Motors and parts source--Herbach and Rademan Fallcreek9@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 10/7/98 1:09:30 PM Central Daylight Time,harry37@epix.netwrites: Greg Greg: I would appreciate the phone number. Also, reference my postsaboutthe source for V-Blocke. Mike Biondo e-mailed me off list and said itwas okto post the source, so you might avoid a lot (and I mean a lot) of off-linemessages by putting it on the list. If you would be more comfortablegettingthis from Mike, you can contact him at : michael@wugate.wustl.edu Regards and Thanks,Richard Richard, Thanks- Here's the address for any interested-- HERBACH AND RADEMAN16 Roland AveMt. Laurel, NJ 08054-1012 Phones:800-848-8001 609-802-0465 FAX from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Oct 8 09:54:00 1998 Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:53:47 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Wooden planing forms On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, Seth Steinzor wrote: I am about to make a wooden planing form using Tony Young's design, andI am wondering if anyone has any experience with using a jointer to cutthe bevels. I have an old Delta 6" jointer which can be set to cut1/32" (or possibly less); so, if I set the fence at the correct angle,and if my trigonometry is correct (big if!), I should be able to cut atone pass a bevel running from 0" to .062" in depth. (You get the taper second pass would take it either from .031 - .094 or from 0 - .094,depending on how I start the cut. And so on. Anybody done this? Doesit work? I know of some-one who did this and found it worked perfectly. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Thu Oct 8 09:56:24 1998 post(8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id PAA18510 for ;Thu, 8 Oct1998 15:57:22 +0100 Subject: Sir. Darryl Hayashida now gone !!!! boundary="----=_NextPart_000_019D_01BDF2CF.82907820" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_019D_01BDF2CF.82907820 Russ, and all. Oh dear. This is getting out of hand. I do hope this loss can be turned =around. Wayne and Darryl have been the mainstays of this list. The =archives are full of their long and painstaking replies to questions. =Selfless work from two selfless men. Wayne AND Darryl gone. Please, no-one else be tempted to jump ship, and =let's try to get these very good souls back. Mike B, can you help? JC-----Original Message-----From: Golden Witch Date: 08 October 1998 14:46Subject: Re: St. Wayne Just thought I'd pipe up John, so you know not to expect a reply = from Sir Darryl H. He quit the list last week in response to the posts =of Terry A. (to make a long story very short, I won't delve into =details). Russ -----Original Message-----From: J.Cooper Date: Thursday, October 08, 1998 6:24 AMSubject: Re: St. Wayne That's a very nice gesture Harry (er, Reverend Boyd). Your about =as close to a proper authority for such things as this demonic list is =likely to attract, and what the Pope doesn't know about, shouldn't worry =him. Let no man say nay. St.Wayne it must be. I have another idea (audible groans from off stage). Wayne =Cattanach honoured (English spelling) Sir Darryl Hayashida by naming a =rod series after him - the Sir.D rods, of repute. How about it if, quid =pro quo, someone (Darryl?) makes a St. Wayne series? JC.-----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd Wayne Cattanach Date: 06 October 1998 17:55Subject: Re: Apology Thank you for your injection of reason into this hapless =debate. I agree completely, and I think I have a possible solution, = If I remember correctly, as a loyal subject of the queen =of England you took it upon yourself to "knight" Mr. Hayashida for some =kindness or generosity he had shown you, and it is rightful that you did =so. For several days there was great enjoyment on the part of all at =your own kindness and generosity. Then, without fanfare, and in an act = As a resident of the lowly state of Louisiana, in the =country you still think of as "the colonies," I have no authority to = But I am also a minister of the Gospel. As a rebel =Baptist, faithful to the tradition of the Radical Reformation, I am not =completely familiar with canonical law. At least one post this morning =has mentioned Mr. Cattanach as "St. Wayne". I hope you will allow me = First, my understanding is that before a person can be =considered for sainthood, he (or she) must be deceased. I do not in any = Second, I recall that the candidate for sainthood must =have in his lifetime been a party to at least three verifiable miracles. =I personally saw Wayne Cattanach perform many more than three miracles= A. He (with the help of an un-named navigator) =transformed the trip from St. Louis to Mtn. Home from a journey of a few =hours into an arduous journey of epic proportions worthy of the best = B. On a more serious note, he convinced a =conglomeration of everything from wanna-be's to has-been's that they, =too, really could make a flyrod. Imparting such faith surely warrants = C. He convinced me and several others who have built =a rod or two that we can move from imitators to innovators; that our =efforts are progressing in the right direction. I think that is = Other miracles might include the way he transformed the =13 inch rainbow I caught while under his observation into a 17 inch = Third, a saint is one who is recognized as having lived =a virtuous life and directed others to do the same. The candidate for =canonical status is certainly a worthy example to be followed in his = Therefore, without further ado, upon my authority as a =servant of the Gospel of Flyfishing and Rodmaking, I do declare that it =be known here and in all parts unknown that from this day forward, Mr. =Wayne Cattanach, a.k.a Jackpine Rodmaker, Jackpine Buddha, Sensei, =friend, mentor, and genuine nice guy, shall be deemed "St. Wayne." =That nomenclature shall convey the privilege of being known throughout =Rodmakingdom as worthy of being left alone, if that is his desire. That =designation shall carry with it only one obligation; that he continue to =be himself, and be our friend. For his friendship is treasured at least =as highly as his wisdom and experience, priceless commodities on their = (an appelation I use only in the most important = Dr. Maclean was absolutely correct in that there is no =clear line between religion and flyfishing. Perhaps that thought should = PS - Russ and others, hope this is taken in the spirit it is = Wayne and all. Johnny has been big enough to apologise =publicly for his error - a hard thing to do. I do hope that the open =list can now recover its calm. Wayne, I hope particularly that you can =accept that the error has been corrected, and that this is the right =place for your much-valued expertise to be shared. A lot of folks will =be pleased and relieved to hear you say that this unfortunate business = Subject: Apology - Was: Bamboo Only Guide Service =SurveyHi folks, ------=_NextPart_000_019D_01BDF2CF.82907820 Oh dear. This is getting out of = this loss can be turned around. Wayne and Darryl have been the mainstays = list. The archives are full of their long and painstaking replies to = Selfless work from two selfless men. Wayne AND Darryl gone. Please, no-one else be = ship, and let's try to get these very good souls back. Mike B, can you help? JC -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= WayneJust thought I'd pipe = last week in response to the posts of Terry A. (to make a long story = short, I won't delve into details). Russ rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Thursday, October 08, 1998 6:24 AMSubject: Re: = Wayne That's a very nice gesture = Reverend Boyd). Your about as close to a proper authority for = things as this demonic list is likely to attract, and what the = doesn't know about, shouldn't worry him. Let no man say nay. = must be. I have another idea (audible groans from off = Wayne Cattanach honoured (English spelling) Sir Darryl Hayashida = naming a rod series after him - the Sir.D rods, of repute. How = series? JC. rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= ApologyMr. Cooper, = you for your injection of reason into this hapless = "knight" Mr. Hayashida for some kindness or = had shown you, and it is rightful that you did so. For = there was great enjoyment on the part of all at your own = As a rebel Baptist, faithful to the tradition of the Radical = Reformation, I am not completely familiar with canonical = least one post this morning has mentioned Mr. Cattanach as = sainthood must have in his lifetime been a party to at least = un-named navigator) transformed the trip from St. Louis to = from a journey of a few hours into an arduous journey of = he convinced a conglomeration of everything from wanna-be's = several others who have built a rod or two that we can move = imitators to innovators; that our efforts are progressing in = transformed the 13 inch rainbow I caught while under his = example to be followed in his graciousness, his generosity, = Rodmaking, I do declare that it be known here and in all = unknown that from this day forward, Mr. Wayne Cattanach, = Jackpine Rodmaker, Jackpine Buddha, Sensei, friend, mentor, = genuine nice guy, shall be deemed "St. = throughout Rodmakingdom as worthy of being left alone, if = obligation; that he continue to be himself, and be our = in the most important correspondence, reference some of my = there is no clear line between religion and = Perhaps that thought should invade our minds before we press = PS - Russ and others, hope this is taken in the spirit it = has been big enough to apologise publicly for his error = thing to do. I do hope that the open list can now = calm. Wayne, I hope particularly that you can accept = error has been corrected, and that this is the right = your much-valued expertise to be shared. A lot of folks = pleased and relieved to hear you say that this = <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Date: = 1998 15:41 Subject: Apology - Was: Bamboo Only = ------=_NextPart_000_019D_01BDF2CF.82907820-- from Fallcreek9@aol.com Thu Oct 8 10:05:21 1998 Subject: Re: V-Block In a message dated 10/8/98 8:09:40 AM Central Daylight Time,LambersonW@missouri.edu writes: from Fallcreek9@aol.com Thu Oct 8 10:11:56 1998 Subject: Re: V-Block In a message dated 10/8/98 8:09:40 AM Central Daylight Time,LambersonW@missouri.edu writes: Sorry, List. The chatter about the Morgan Hand Mill was meant to be aprivatee-mail to Bill. Apologies to list and to Bill. RTyree from phillips@library.ucsf.edu Thu Oct 8 10:35:35 1998 Subject: Re: Sir. Darryl Hayashida & Wayne now gone !!!! I've only been on this list for a few weeks, but I know enough thatthis is a terrible loss to the list. Could these two gentlemen bepleaded with to return to the list again and grace us with theirknowlwdge and wisdom? John Phillips At 03:22 PM 10/8/98 +0100, you wrote: Russ, and all. Oh dear. This is getting outof hand. I do hope this loss can be turned around. Wayne and Darryl havebeen the mainstays of this list. The archives are full of their long andpainstaking replies to questions. Selfless work from two selflessmen. Wayne AND Darryl gone. Please, no-one else betempted to jump ship, and let's try to get these very good soulsback. Mike B, can you help? JC from thramer@presys.com Thu Oct 8 11:17:43 1998 0000 Subject: Re: St. Wayne Golden Witch wrote: Just thought I'd pipe up John, so you know not to expect a reply fromSir Darryl H. He quit the list last week in response to the posts ofTerry A. (to make a long story very short, I won't delve intodetails). Russ -----Original Message-----From: J.Cooper Date: Thursday, October 08, 1998 6:24 AMSubject: Re: St. Wayne That's a very nice gesture Harry (er, Reverend Boyd). Yourabout as close to a proper authority for such things as thisdemonic list is likely to attract, and what the Pope doesn'tknow about, shouldn't worry him. Let no man say nay.St.Wayne it must be. I have another idea (audible groans from off stage). WayneCattanach honoured (English spelling) Sir Darryl Hayashida repute. How about it if, quid pro quo, someone (Darryl?)makes a St. Wayne series? JC. -----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd ; Wayne Cattanach Date: 06 October 1998 17:55Subject: Re: Apology Mr. Cooper,Thank you for your injection of reason intothis hapless debate. I agree completely, and Ithink I have a possible solution, though it willdoubtlessly embarass Mr. Cattanach.If I remember correctly, as a loyal subject ofthe queen of England you took it upon yourself to"knight" Mr. Hayashida for some kindness orgenerosity he had shown you, and it is rightfulthat you did so. For several days there was greatenjoyment on the part of all at your own kindnessand generosity. Then, without fanfare, and in anact of great humility, the "Sir" appelation wasdropped.As a resident of the lowly state of Louisiana,in the country you still think of as "thecolonies," I have no authority to grantknighthood.But I am also a minister of the Gospel. As arebel Baptist, faithful to the tradition of theRadical Reformation, I am not completely familiarwith canonical law. At least one post this morninghas mentioned Mr. Cattanach as "St. Wayne". Ihope you will allow me some leeway in myinterpretation of the traditions of the church. First, my understanding is that before aperson can be considered for sainthood, he (orshe) must be deceased. I do not in any way wishthat on said Jackpine Rodmaker. Second, I recall that the candidate forsainthood must have in his lifetime been a partyto at least three verifiable miracles. Ipersonally saw Wayne Cattanach perform many morethan three miracles this past weekend. Forexample:A. He (with the help of an un-namednavigator) transformed the trip from St. Louis toMtn. Home from a journey of a few hours into anarduous journey of epic proportions worthy of thebest efforts of Cecil B. DeMille.B. On a more serious note, he convinced aconglomeration of everything from wanna-be's tohas-been's that they, too, really could make aflyrod. Imparting such faith surely warrants thestatus of miracle.C. He convinced me and several others whohave built a rod or two that we can move fromimitators to innovators; that our efforts areprogressing in the right direction. I think thatis miraculous.Other miracles might include the way hetransformed the 13 inch rainbow I caught whileunder his observation into a 17 inch vehemoth,etc., etc., etc. Third, a saint is one who is recognized ashaving lived a virtuous life and directed othersto do the same. The candidate for canonicalstatus is certainly a worthy example to befollowed in his graciousness, his generosity, hisdemeanor, his helpfulness. Therefore, without further ado, upon myauthority as a servant of the Gospel ofFlyfishing and Rodmaking, I do declare that it beknown here and in all parts unknown that from thisday forward, Mr. Wayne Cattanach, a.k.a JackpineRodmaker, Jackpine Buddha, Sensei, friend, mentor,and genuine nice guy, shall be deemed "St.Wayne." That nomenclature shall convey theprivilege of being known throughout Rodmakingdomas worthy of being left alone, if that is hisdesire. That designation shall carry with it onlyone obligation; that he continue to be himself,and be our friend. For his friendship istreasured at least as highly as his wisdom andexperience, priceless commodities on their own. Signed,The Reverend Dr. Harry Boyd, Jr.(an appelation I use only in the mostimportant correspondence, reference some of myrecent posts) Dr. Maclean was absolutely correct in thatthere is no clear line between religion andflyfishing. Perhaps that thought should invadeour minds before we press the "Send" key. Thanks to all --- Harry PS - Russ and others, hope this is taken in thespirit it is meant, as I took your post andlaughed out loud! J.Cooper wrote: Wayne and all. Johnny has been bigenough to apologise publicly for hiserror - a hard thing to do. I do hopethat the open list can now recover itscalm. Wayne, I hope particularly thatyou can accept that the error has beencorrected, and that this is the rightplace for your much-valued expertise tobe shared. A lot of folks will bepleased and relieved to hear you saythat this unfortunate business has nowblown-over, and that you are here tostay. JC. -----Original Message-----From: Johnny Johnson Date: 06 October 1998 15:41Subject: Apology - Was: BambooOnly Guide Service SurveyHifolks, Name: Golden Witch.vcfPart 1.2 Type: text/x-vcardEncoding: quoted- printable It should be noted that Terry Ackland quit the group also. A terribleloss on both counts. I have neither the patience nor the time to investthat Wayne had. Pretty poor if you have to rely on me for any advice.A.J.Thramer from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Thu Oct 8 11:49:07 1998 SMTP Thu, 8 Oct 1998 18:48:29 +0200 Subject: [Fwd: Quest - old rod] Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format. --------------650059282C32 Sorry, i have some e-mail problems a t moment - can you guys send theanswers direct to "gespliesst@bluewin.ch" ThanksStefan-- = S. Grau`s * atelier edelweiss *Gespliesste Angelruten =96 Bamboo RodsAlpine Fliegenfischerschule & GuidingAlpine Flyfishing School & Guiding Brunnadernstr. 11 3006 Berne/SwitzerlandPhone: ++41 (0) 31 352 42 88 ab 19.00 / from 7.pme-mail: gespliesst@bluewin.ch --------------650059282C32 Organization: atelier edelweiss - Swiss handmade Bamboo Rods - Brunnadernstr. 113006 Berne/Switzerland Phone/Fax: 0041 (0) 31 352 42 88, from 7.PM Subject: Quest - old rod Dear Friends A few days ago i became a rod for restoration. It`s not a split canerod, the Blank is made from different bamboo culms. It`s a 3-piecesalmon fly rod(?), the whole lenght ca. 12 ft. The rings are made from wire, double wise turned. The stripping guideis a agathe guide ( maybe from another restorer?), all guides arewrapped in olive green, no intermediates. The tip guide is also wrapped with wire (!), and it`s made in the samemanner like the other guides - made from double wise turned wire. The grip is from cork, but can`t see if he`s made from cork rings, seemsnot. The sliding bands are made from aluminium, seems to be not originaland from another decade(?).The grip has a butt cap, black and mabye made in hard gum or somethingsimilar. The makers name are "Jeavy (Jeary?)& Mitch" ( & Mitch is true, the othername can`t exact read). The rod cames with a "Meisselbach featherlight reel", but think it`s notthe real, original set. The "Meisselbach" must be from ca. 1904. Question(s); Anyone know the decade of this rod?The maker(s)?The country - maybe a "Yankee-" or a "Tommy-Rod"? Thanks a lot for all thought/ideas & help. Stefan-- = S. Grau`s * atelier edelweiss *Gespliesste Angelruten =96 Bamboo RodsAlpine Fliegenfischerschule & GuidingAlpine Flyfishing School & Guiding Brunnadernstr. 11 3006 Berne/SwitzerlandPhone: ++41 (0) 31 352 42 88 ab 19.00 / from 7.pme-mail: gespliesst@bluewin.ch --------------650059282C32-- from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Thu Oct 8 13:56:41 1998 ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 06:56:40 +1200 Subject: Re: Wooden planing forms Seth, I have made several sets of wooden forms using Tony's design and theyworkreally well , particually if you groove the plane . I do not have jointers , routers etc so had to try to find a way to do thegrooves using a plane. After some experimenting I found that the groovecanbe cut fairly simply using the following simple jig system . I used 3 pieces ( 4 pieces may be better) of 1.5" by .75" scrap timber(white pine ) about 12" long and cut a 30/60/90 triangle V groove about 1"deep in the centre of each strip . The triangle had a 30 degree and a 60degree angle at the top of the triangle and a 90 degree at the bottom oftheV. ( sorry I cannot draw a diagram) . I then drew a straight line on the topof my work bench and temporary nailed the strips so that the Vs were inline . The wooden from can then be laid along the V's and a 30 degree angle canthen be achieved by planing parallel with the bench top . ( I used JackHowells suggestion of a mirror at the end of the form to watch whether Iwaskeeping the plane parallel.) I then marked on the form the required depthofcut along its length , put the form in the Vs ,and planed down to the markskeeping the plane parallel with the bench. I am no expert with woodworkingmachinery but found this quite easy to do and by " final planning " with avery thin cut was able to achieve a very nice groove . The fact that theplanning was being done " on the flat" seemed to give very easy controloverthe cutting of the groove . After putting the form together I used a triangle file ( as per St Waynesbook ) to remove any high spots which amy have occured. Incidently , Tony suggests using a metal strip to hold in the head of thebarrel bolts . I found getting the exact location for the holes not easy ina long strip . The last forms I made i used some simple 2.5" long rightangle brackets from the local hardware store . These had 3 holes drilled ineach leg of the bracket . I cut the bracket at the bend so I had twostraight sections and located the centre hole over the barrel bolt head andput screws through the other two holes to hold the strip in place . These forms work well for me and one of the reasons I have several setsisthat I can now make a set in an afternoon using a plane , a drill , and adowling jig which i picked up at the local flea market for $15 . ( I alsohave a very nice set with 30 degree angles instead of 60 by laying theformon the V in the wrong direction . ) regards Iank 10:30 AM 8/10/98 -0400, you wrote:I am about to make a wooden planing form using Tony Young's design, andI am wondering if anyone has any experience with using a jointer to cutthe bevels. I have an old Delta 6" jointer which can be set to cut1/32" (or possibly less); so, if I set the fence at the correct angle,and if my trigonometry is correct (big if!), I should be able to cut atone pass a bevel running from 0" to .062" in depth. (You get the taper second pass would take it either from .031 - .094 or from 0 - .094,depending on how I start the cut. And so on. Anybody done this? Doesit work? Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Oct 8 14:08:03 1998 via smap(4.1) Subject: Blackening Guide Feet I need to blacken some guide feet ends where they were tapered. I have a Marks-A-Lot pen and a Sanford Sharpie pen. Both are permanent ink. Not really looking for other suggestions at this point, but would like to know if anyone has used these brands, then varnished over. No color preserver will be used and the wraps are white and will go clear so the feet will show. I guess the question is does anyone know what the base of thesepens is composed of. Alchohol ? I don't want the black ink to run when I varnish since the wraps are clear. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from doddd@monroe.army.mil Thu Oct 8 14:16:49 1998 (5.5.2232.9) Subject: unsubscribe list, unsubscribe david dodd David W. DoddConcepts GateKeepersBattleLab Integration, Technology and Concepts DirectorateDSN 680-3995 FAX 680-3445 from michael@wugate.wustl.edu Thu Oct 8 15:05:09 1998 Subject: Re: Blackening Guide Feet Chris seez... I need to blacken some guide feet ends where they were tapered. I have a Marks-A-Lot pen and a Sanford Sharpie pen. Both are permanent ink. Not really looking for other suggestions at this point, but would like to know if anyone has used these brands, then varnished over. I have use Sharpie pens under varnish with good results. Now...what I have to describe may well get me burned at the stake forBamboo heresy, but I admit it, I did it, and it worked!!! :-) Recently while struggling with my trim wraps, I happened to glance downatthe black Sharpie on my bench. Since I was wrapping black trim wraps, Ithought...hmmmmm???? So the next wrap I continued wrapping untilwhere Iwould normally end the guide wrapping. I then picked up the black marker,and colored about four inches of the still attached thread. Waited a fewmoments for it to dry. Secured the catch loop, and proceeded to wrap 5morewraps of the newly blacken thread. Instant trim wrap!!! Worked great!!!:-) Actually, since my main wrap color was a dark green, I also took a greensharpie to the guide feet to mask my sometime (oftentimes!) less thangreatwrap job. I'll tell ya, these Sharpies make even me look like I know whatI'm doing!!! :-) Mike - pass the Sharpie - BiondoSt. Louis, MO from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Oct 8 15:56:04 1998 via smap(4.1) Subject: Flower quality cork Could someone tell me what flower quality cork refers to. I assume really good stuff, but would like verification. Thanks Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from dmcfall@ODYSSEE.NET Thu Oct 8 16:17:43 1998 Subject: Re: Wooden planing forms At 10:30 AM 10/8/98 -0400, you wrote:I am about to make a wooden planing form using Tony Young's design, andI am wondering if anyone has any experience with using a jointer to cutthe bevels. I have an old Delta 6" jointer which can be set to cut1/32" (or possibly less); so, if I set the fence at the correct angle,and if my trigonometry is correct (big if!), I should be able to cut atone pass a bevel running from 0" to .062" in depth. (You get the taper second pass would take it either from .031 - .094 or from 0 - .094,depending on how I start the cut. And so on. Anybody done this? Doesit work? I made up some wood planing forms but they are constant depth. I used anold General 6" jointer and used a very fine cut and repeated until correctdepth was achieved. You have to be careful in setting your angles and makesure you can support the wood accurately. It took 2 of us about an hourincluding all the fooling around to get what we wanted. I'm sure you will have little trouble if you take your time. Incidentallywe used birch wood. Good luck Dave M from Fallcreek9@aol.com Thu Oct 8 16:56:30 1998 Subject: Re: Blackening Guide Feet In a message dated 10/8/98 3:14:04 PM Central Daylight Time,michael@wugate.wustl.edu writes: MikeLet me be one of the first to say, "thats an ingenius idea." Cannot wait totry it.Richard from jczimny@dol.net Thu Oct 8 17:38:17 1998 Subject: Re: Parabolic tapers John,Probably will. It's very difficult to keep epon from bonding.John Z john channer wrote: At 09:25 PM 10/7/98 -0400, you wrote:Yes, I believe that he was overlooking the fact that some adhesivesrequire acertain amount of clamping pressure to avoid a failure. For instance,epoxyformulations generally require little or no clamping pressure whereasurea-formaldehydes require a good bit of clamping pressure.John Zimny John;This an interesting poit to me. I am in the process of scarfing the tipssections on the 7'6" Gene Edwards rod I got earlier this summer, they areboth 5" short and I felt that they wouldn't work the way they weresupposedto if I just mounted tip tops on what was left. I am using Epon andwrappedthem tight with thread the way the books say to. do you think I mighthaveover clamped them ? I scarfed one tip section on the first rod I madeabouttwo years ago this way, but I used Urac at the time. I have had noproblemwith it and have fished it hard and caught quite a few large trout on theSan Juan with it. Both rods I scarfed at the second guide, so they areoverwrapped with the guide wraps. I would like to know if you think theEpon will hold up as well as the Urac scarf has. Thanks John Channer from swilson1@WHC.NET Thu Oct 8 18:48:50 1998 ; Subject: filing nodes I have a dumb beginner's question for the list. When filing nodes, doyou file both the sharp ridge and the less distinct hump, thus leavingan unfiled "valley" of enamel in between? Thanks Scott Wilson from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Oct 8 18:54:30 1998 Subject: Re: Flower quality cork It all depends on the vendor - remember buyer beware. Talk tosomeonewho has bought from your vendor and got this grade from him - it willvary fromone source to another - no standard of grading that I have found. Chris On Thu, 8 Oct 98 14:00:26 PDT, CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: Could someone tell me what flower quality cork refers to. I assume really good stuff, but would like verification. Thanks Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu Regards Chris from LECLAIR123@aol.com Thu Oct 8 19:25:57 1998 Subject: Re: Parabolic tapers-BINDING I gave up on my binder a while ago. I bind my blanks by hand.No problems. Dave LeClair from thramer@presys.com Thu Oct 8 19:39:05 1998 Subject: Re: filing nodes Scott Wilson wrote: I have a dumb beginner's question for the list. When filing nodes, doyou file both the sharp ridge and the less distinct hump, thus leavingan unfiled "valley" of enamel in between? Thanks Scott WilsonHi Scott,You file the node ridge level with the cane on either side of thenode. The best way for a beginner is to file with a conservative touchand continue to touch up the ridge as needed as the planing becomes moreaccurate. This applies if you are hand planing, on most pre or finishbevelers you must get the node absolutely flat at the outset. Standardwoodworking logic in that it is easier to remove more cane later than totry and regrow it.A.J.Thramer from thramer@presys.com Thu Oct 8 19:41:04 1998 Subject: Re: Flower quality cork CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: Could someone tell me what flower quality cork refers to. I assumereally good stuff, but would like verification. Thanks Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.eduTo add to Chris comment the same grade of cork from the same vendorwillvary wildly from year to year, I sometimes wonder if the cork market isrun by a bunch of guys in white shoes and belts.A.J.Thramer from sats@gte.net Thu Oct 8 20:03:04 1998 Subject: Re: no more planing? Thought on... Terry, Sending this to you both on and off the list because I know youmaybe gone by this time. If you get this twice, sorry. I'm posting it on thelist, as it may be of interest to other builders, who are thinking of turning"Pro" but may have no business background. I've spent the last 20 years inaproduction facility, part of it in a Cost Accounting department. (got out ofthere as fast as I could.) I've been thinking about your plan to mass produce rods and "smokebigcigars." I can see some things going for this, but I'm not sure I'd light upyet. There were some things that I didn't understand. For example what'syourproduction schedule. 100 a month? 50 a month? 1000 a month? A lotchanges onboth the supply and demand side based on your production schedule. Of course our material costs are quite modest. I couldn't get thematerialin a Bamboo rod to add up over $200 without going to pure gold. Bamboo,reelseat, ferrules, guides, tiptop, thread, glues, winding cheeks, hook keepers.All will be the same unless you get into building various grades. And ofcourse each component requires a "Make/buy" decision. Real productiondictatesthat some things a builder might like to do himself are much cheeper madebyothers.Your additional costs, such as heat, binder thread, drying processesareanunknown to me. Overhead, such as workspace, electricity, billing sheets, filingsystems,labor forms, tax forms, and special, one time tooling are easy to calculateandcan be kept to a minimum. I'm assuming you're turning an outbuilding oragarage into production area. That leaves labor. This has always been the largest chunk of rodbuilding.It includes not only the milling of bamboo but the pulling of parts, movingofsub assembly from area to area, cleaning, record keeping, etc.etc. All themundane stuff that goes with filling an order. You'll also have to dealwiththe government. I'm sure you do this in a small way now. But once youcross athreshold, (don't know what that $$ is in Canada) You'll have to have abookkeeper on retainer -- unless you intend to spend more time doingpaperwork thenbuilding product. Are you planning to hire extra help? If so you'repaperworkwill double. Now that we've got the product built, it's time to talk about the othersideof the equation. Demand. You suggested 5% of the market at $500 to $700. I was consideringthis.Ithink that may be a bit optimistic. Last year Cabela's fly fishing catalogcarried Partrage Bamboo rods, at a comparable price. This year theydroppedthem. I did see Bamboo Blanks, in Cabela's Tackle Craft from $139 to$555,American. One thing you have going for you, the week Canadian Dollarmeansthat you can sell rods for from $300 to $500 American and still make yourtarget.But I'm not sure how quickly you'd saturate the target market. $300is alot for an entry level fly rod. I spent part of last weekend talking to a lotfly fishers in Mountain Home, Arkansas. Most had no interest in Bamboorods.Most fly fishers don't get into bamboo until they have the ability to buythe$800 ~ $1500 sticks. Those that do usually enter with a "refurbished"rod. Isaw two dealers in Mountain Home. They both had rods from all the"known"makers. Payne, Orvis, etc. The rods went from $250 to $650 in price. Ididn't see them sell much. I did see a lot of plastic auctioned off atpricesup to around $500 dollars. Most fly fishers ($5000~$7000 before expenses.) Figure $100 a unit for parts andmaterial, $50a unit for supplies(a little high), $500 a month overhead(a little low) comesout to about $2000 a month costs. Profit ($3000~$5000)$36000 to $6000 a year. That's 120 units a year. You could build 20 a month($10000~$14000) Butthen you'd have to sell 240 units a year. And you'll have to do that yearafter year. In 10 years you will have produced 2400 units. You'll need oneheck of a distribution system to get enough product disbursed not to dilutethemarket. I've seen lots of expensive rods around here, but I've only seenonebamboo stick at an Orvice shop. That shop is now out of business. I'd say that the real question of your success or failure is yourdistribution. If you've got that figured out, then you can make a fairliving.No really "Big" cigars, but comfortable. from sats@gte.net Thu Oct 8 20:03:28 1998 Subject: Re: Sanding Blanks A while back we discussed the pro's and con's of sanding old blanks to clean them up or alter the taper some. ...... Is this consistent with what some of you with more historical knowledge know to be true, or was it a flippant statement made without any real basis since the book is a very general overview of the entire realm of fishing, and not specific tobamboo rod making. Chris, I've been told that the old timers did, indeed, sand to tune. I'd loveto know more, because, I'm messing around with the same Idea. So far most of my rods have come out very fast, but not very pleasant tocast. I got some good hints at the SRG. Onward. from blueheron@wrtsun02.svidaho.net Thu Oct 8 20:03:34 1998 Subject: Granger Reelseat Does anyone have a reelseat for a Granger Special. I purchased this rodand now I find out that the reelseat is not a real Granger. Can anyonehelp me to put this rod back to its original form?? Thanks HaroldIts a 3/2 -- 9 feet from sats@gte.net Thu Oct 8 20:04:07 1998 Subject: SRG Thanks Preacher Harry. You threw one heck of a party. I hope I can make it again. It wasgreatfun. I'm bad at names so just let me say that EVERYONE I met were great.Pilots, preachers, Gunsmiths, bamboo importers and all the rest. FromTenn, La., Ark., Ill., and Mo. (Wasn't someone there from TEXAS? Can't forgetthem!)I'm sure I left someone out. What a great bunch of guys, you got togetherHarry. Of course, the boys from the frozen north had a little troublenavigating when the compass finally thawed out. And I picked up a14 Trout, late Sunday evening, just at the end of ageneration cycle, on the North Fork. On Bamboo. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from sats@gte.net Thu Oct 8 20:05:39 1998 Subject: Re: St. Wayne And "Preacher" Harry. Well, Harry, I guess it "preacher" from now on... We're doing fair in the nickname department We've got a Knight, a Saint aPreacher and a "sunfish." I know there are others. Who'd I miss? (BesidesTerry A.) I could nominate him for a nickname and we wouldn't even havetochange his last initial. Just Kidding. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from sjstill@iquest.net Thu Oct 8 20:11:27 1998 0000 (209.43.48.28) Subject: Re: Granger Reelseat Harold, Does anyone have a reelseat for a Granger Special. I purchased this rodand now I find out that the reelseat is not a real Granger. Can anyonehelp me to put this rod back to its original form?? Thanks HaroldIts a 3/2 -- 9 feet If it is the Patented NS uplock, try the following; http://www.ricksrods.com/ They have a bunch of old Wright/McGill stuff. Standard diclaimers apply, Ihave no commercial or financial interest in this company. SteveSteve and Julie Stillabower, Indianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Oct 8 20:13:43 1998 Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:12:52 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Flower quality cork On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, A.J.Thramer wrote: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: Could someone tell me what flower quality cork refers to. I assumereally good stuff, but would like verification. Thanks Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.eduTo add to Chris comment the same grade of cork from the same vendorwillvary wildly from year to year, I sometimes wonder if the cork market isrun by a bunch of guys in white shoes and belts.A.J.Thramer from what I've seen the naming conventions aren't based on any real "standard" but is very subjective and prob based upon what the seller has on hand at a particular time, the various grades being defined relative to the current stocks and not necessarily what a grade was last time. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from ballard@zen.wes.army.mil Thu Oct 8 20:21:57 1998 Subject: RE: Blackening Guide Feet Chris,I've always heard that if the marker has a "smell" to itthat it will run or is non-permanent. For the most part,Sharpies are *really* permanent (don't ask). -Jerry Ballardballard@zen.wes.army.mil ----Original Message-----From: "CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL" Subject: Blackening Guide Feet Date: Thursday, October 08, 1998 2:09 PM I need to blacken some guide feet ends where they were tapered. I havea Marks-A-Lot pen and a Sanford Sharpie pen. Both are permanent ink. Not really looking for other suggestions at this point, but would like toknow if anyone has used these brands, then varnished over. No colorpreserver will be used and the wraps are white and will go clear so the feet will show. I guess the question is does anyone know what the base of thesepens is composed of. Alchohol ? I don't want the black ink to run when I varnish since the wraps are clear. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from jaquin@netsync.net Thu Oct 8 20:26:09 1998 quartz.netsync.net(8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA06306 for ;Thu, 8 Oct1998 21:26:08 -0400 Subject: Re: marinaro tapers Tony Young wrote: On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Hanzich, Al (MLPT) wrote: Has anyone built a fly on Marinaro's tapers as described in the Ring oftheRise? Not sure Hill St. Blues is re-running where he is, but I betfishingis great! Al Hanzich732-878-6567 This question comes up once in a while but it seems that the tapers areunavailable, unless they sudenly have become so. from memory Marinaro's perfect rod was a 9' 4oz rod?Who was it mentioned on this list he was making decent rods but mixingand matching tips and butts of different tapers? That was more or lesswhat Marinaro was doing. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/Tom Whittle was at the rosco gathering and gave a talk about marinaroand his rod making. Tom brought one rod with him. one of the "guppy"light wt. models. It was about a 7 ft 4wt. it cast very well, butprobably not any better than the Sir D 7ft 4" mentioned on this list.It is my understanding that the taper is available if one is to make adonation to the proposed Marinaro fly fishing museum, and keep theinformation confidential(not for commercial use). For more infocontact Tom at 717- 541-0622 or Tom@cet-inc.com from blueheron@wrtsun02.svidaho.net Thu Oct 8 20:29:50 1998 Subject: Re: Granger Reelseat Steve Stillabower wrote: Harold, Does anyone have a reelseat for a Granger Special. I purchased this rodand now I find out that the reelseat is not a real Granger. Can anyonehelp me to put this rod back to its original form?? Thanks HaroldIts a 3/2 -- 9 feet If it is the Patented NS uplock, try the following; http://www.ricksrods.com/ They have a bunch of old Wright/McGill stuff. Standard diclaimers apply,Ihave no commercial or financial interest in this company. SteveSteve and Julie Stillabower, Indianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net from jaquin@netsync.net Thu Oct 8 20:37:29 1998 quartz.netsync.net(8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA07433 for ;Thu, 8 Oct1998 21:37:20 -0400 Subject: Re: WTD:Payne 204 taper Golden Witch wrote: Hi Don, I don't have a 204 taper precisely, but I do have the butt taper the impression that the CCR was a slightly heavier rod than thestandard 204 (I could be completely off my rocker). It may be of someassistance in approximating the butt you need. 0 - .3855 - .38510 - .38515 - .33320 - .31125 - .30030 - .28934 - .275 Subtract about .006 for varnish. Best of luck with your latest acquisition! Russ Golden Witch Rods - "Tools For Natural Philosophy"Golden Witch Technologies, Inc. - "The Golden Age Is Now"gwr@seanet.comhttp://www.goldenwitch.com -----Original Message-----From: Canerods@aol.com Date: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 6:46 PMSubject: WTD:Payne 204 taper All: I received a copy of the cane rod list put out by the widowof Phil Snyder(with help from Chris Lucker et al) and did a quick phonecall. So 3 out of 4of my first round draft picks were already sold. I did draft(purchase) thefinal top pick - a mid/tip plus bag/tube from a Payne 204. Does anyone have a taper for the 204 butt section? Or aspare butt from a 204? Don Burns PS - No, I won't turn it into a banty. Maybe I'd make abanty extention handle Name: Golden Witch.vcfPart 1.2 Type: text/x-vcardEncoding: quoted- printablehi don i have a payne 203, if you want the taper on the butt section me, from channer@hubwest.com Thu Oct 8 20:43:35 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AA9616D0140; Thu, 08 Oct 1998 19:44:54 MDT Subject: Re: Wooden planing forms At 10:30 AM 10/8/98 -0400, you wrote:I am about to make a wooden planing form using Tony Young's design, andI am wondering if anyone has any experience with using a jointer to cutthe bevels. I have an old Delta 6" jointer which can be set to cut1/32" (or possibly less); so, if I set the fence at the correct angle,and if my trigonometry is correct (big if!), I should be able to cut atone pass a bevel running from 0" to .062" in depth. (You get the taper second pass would take it either from .031 - .094 or from 0 - .094,depending on how I start the cut. And so on. Anybody done this? Doesit work? Seth;I have made rough forms on a jointer(also an old Delta) and they came outo.k., but I like the ones I made with a router and 60d v-groove bit better.I don't know how good the jointer you have is, but the one I used wouldn'tdo to make finish forms with. Give it a try, maple is pretty cheap. John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Thu Oct 8 20:43:44 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AAA516E0140; Thu, 08 Oct 1998 19:45:09 MDT Subject: Re: Parabolic tapers At 06:26 PM 10/8/98 -0400, you wrote:John,Probably will. It's very difficult to keep epon from bonding.John Z john channer wrote: At 09:25 PM 10/7/98 -0400, you wrote:Yes, I believe that he was overlooking the fact that some adhesivesrequire acertain amount of clamping pressure to avoid a failure. For instance,epoxyformulations generally require little or no clamping pressure whereasurea-formaldehydes require a good bit of clamping pressure.John Zimny John;This an interesting poit to me. I am in the process of scarfing the tipssections on the 7'6" Gene Edwards rod I got earlier this summer, theyareboth 5" short and I felt that they wouldn't work the way they weresupposedto if I just mounted tip tops on what was left. I am using Epon andwrappedthem tight with thread the way the books say to. do you think I mighthaveover clamped them ? I scarfed one tip section on the first rod I madeabouttwo years ago this way, but I used Urac at the time. I have had noproblemwith it and have fished it hard and caught quite a few large trout on theSan Juan with it. Both rods I scarfed at the second guide, so they areoverwrapped with the guide wraps. I would like to know if you think theEpon will hold up as well as the Urac scarf has. Thanks John Channer John;Thanks for the info, always nice to have the opinion of the resident glueexpert.John from MaryKay01@worldnet.att.net Thu Oct 8 20:57:34 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP Subject: Re: Cork Order Me also Mark Hallowell mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu wrote: Davy,If you can send your email address I would like to correspond with youregardingyour cork order. Since the list is a remailer the only email addressattached,at least as readable by my email system, is the rodmakers address. Youcancontact me at mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.eduThanks.Jon McAnulty ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Cork OrderAuthor: at Internet-MailDate: 10/6/98 10:26 PM David wrote: Here's what I have decided to do as regards the cork order. Since I'veonlygotten good recommendations for Cork Specialties in Miami, I'll sendthem anorder for myself and anyone else who wants to get in. I'm thinking right now that I'd like to see the goods before I make morethan a token order, so about a dozen guys/gals making a very minimumorderwill be plenty. That way we can all get a reasonable idea of what toexpectand nobody will be out much if it turns out to be crap. Make sense? Thenif a sufficient number of people are happy with what they receive andwishto order a really serious quantity, we can do that a little later- as longas it doesn't interfere with steelheading. Their minimum order is $75.00, so we won't need very much to getthere if ahalf-dozen or so will send me their checks, say by the 15th or so. Thismight also be the way to go for somebody who will make a total of twoorthree (or one) rods and just wants to get a volume price. I will cashthechecks, make the order, re-package and distribute the rings when theygethere, send them out to the participants and graciously ignore anycriticismsof my handling of the affair. The price for 1-1/8 inch dia. X 1/2 inch rings with 1/4 inch bore (yes, Igave up on the smaller holes) is $0.53 (fifty-three cents) so multiplythat tofive bucks (the lower number for a "sample" order, the greater if it'sgoingto be over a couple of pounds) If I get too much money (or cork) I willputa share of same, proportional to your contribution, in the packagewhich Iwill send you. On a similar subject, since we all got the wordconcerningthe accepted definition of "commercialism" I should get no flames inreturn comfort in the certain knowledge that I will not read them :-) Also, Ifyouneed something right away, or if you need a large order, please order itonyour own. Above the $75.00 minimum, there is no significant pricebreak (5% reshipping. Anybody who'se still interested, send me a private email and I'll getthething going. In fact, if you go to Cork Specialties' website and seesomething else you want (They carry a selection of pre-formed grips)I'd behappy to include same in the order. http://www.corkgrips.com Got to shut down- major lightning close by. Davy Davy Where can I order from? Do I send to you if I'd like to get in on thisorder? Mark Hallowell from MaryKay01@worldnet.att.net Thu Oct 8 21:02:05 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP Subject: Re: "Wayne's Holy Shrine" Wayne, Please keep in touch. Texas is a big place and not many builders.Most of all thankyou for all that you have taught me. Mark Hallowellflyrod6@juno.com Larry Blan wrote: If you truly want to visit the Holy Shrine as it exists for Wayne, you'llwant to head a bit further north, to the Jordan. Here, you will gaininsightand understanding..... and perhaps add to your vocabulary in the process.Just ask Mike Biondo! :)) -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Canerods@aol.comSent: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 9:40 PM Subject: Re: In a message dated 10/6/98 11:10:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time,sniderja@email.uc.edu writes: Date: 10/6/98 11:10:46 AM Pacific Daylight TimeFrom: sniderja@email.uc.edu (Jerry Snider)Sender: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Gospel > and in all > Cattanach,a.k.a Jackpine > genuine nice guy, shall > convey the privilege of being > being left alone, if that is his > with it only one obligation; that he > friend. For his friendship is treasured at > his wisdomand experience, priceless commodities on their > Since I lay claim to introducing the term, most reverently, St. Wayne, Iwill be the first to contribute to a baseball type cap, preferably forestgreen with a tan leather bill, to be embroderied (sp?) in gold stitching,"St. Wayne." (As we all know, the patron saint of amateurrodbuilders). Towhom do I send the check?Unfortunately, my own such cap is embroderied "Trout Grouch" (andmostappropriately so, I might add!). Plus we all need make a pilgrimage to Grayrock once in ourlive's, crawl onour knees (with a cane rod in hand) and partake of the waters ofSt Wayne'sholy shrine. Don Burns from jkallo@midwest.net Thu Oct 8 21:25:38 1998 Subject: Angles Hello all,I started the final planing portion of my first rod last night, and Ihavea consistent problem that I hope someone may be able to comment on. As Ibegin to plane each stip (I'm on my fourth) I work first off to make surethe angles are right on. My problem is this: after I have managed to geteach of the non-enamel surfaces measuring within a couple thousandths ofeach other (measuring from each flat to opposing point), the measurement from enamel side to opposite tip is way off--and I mean like severalhundreths off. I put a center gague to the strips and it appears that the"crown" of the enamel side is causing this probelm (i.e. if I just planedthe enamel flat the measurements would match up). I know that Waynesuggests leaving on .001 or so for enamel removal, but as I said mydiscrepancy is quite a bit more than that. I knew something was amiss so Ileft them way oversized, just in case. I've decided to leave them aloneuntil I figure out what is going wrong here. I don't know if this has anyrelevance to this problem, but I am building the whole rod from a single 6'section of cane; it started as a practice run through the things I learnedat SRG and things came out so well I decided to keep going. Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from djfinch@sprintmail.com Thu Oct 8 21:37:12 1998 Subject: Re: Angles Hello list ! now this is this list I remember and love ! is this not what itreallyis about ?...Kudos to everyone to go on with the business at hand..withplane init..or mill ..to each his own ! Greg. Joseph S.Kallo wrote: Hello all,I started the final planing portion of my first rod last night, and Ihavea consistent problem that I hope someone may be able to comment on. AsIbegin to plane each stip (I'm on my fourth) I work first off to make surethe angles are right on. My problem is this: after I have managed to geteach of the non-enamel surfaces measuring within a couple thousandthsofeach other (measuring from each flat to opposing point), themeasurement from enamel side to opposite tip is way off--and I mean like severalhundreths off. I put a center gague to the strips and it appears that the"crown" of the enamel side is causing this probelm (i.e. if I just planedthe enamel flat the measurements would match up). I know that Waynesuggests leaving on .001 or so for enamel removal, but as I said mydiscrepancy is quite a bit more than that. I knew something was amissso Ileft them way oversized, just in case. I've decided to leave them aloneuntil I figure out what is going wrong here. I don't know if this has anyrelevance to this problem, but I am building the whole rod from a single6'section of cane; it started as a practice run through the things I learnedat SRG and things came out so well I decided to keep going. Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from anglport@con2.com Thu Oct 8 22:05:13 1998 Subject: Re: Wooden planing forms I don't know if I'm misreading your posts or just looking from a differentangle. It seems to me that it might be easier to make the 60deg cuts to aconstant depth and then taper the FLATS (the ones which meet) to formthe"drop" in the forms than to try to taper the actual 60deg cuts. You'd windup with forms that were narrower at one end than the other, but that's acosmetic concern with the dimensions we're discussing here.Shouldn'tthat beeasier, even if it requires a little trig? If it sounds physically easierbut the math is too much, I'll do the calculator work for you.Just a thought,Art At 05:14 PM 10/8/98 -0400, you wrote:At 10:30 AM 10/8/98 -0400, you wrote:I am about to make a wooden planing form using Tony Young's design, andI am wondering if anyone has any experience with using a jointer to cutthe bevels. I have an old Delta 6" jointer which can be set to cut1/32" (or possibly less); so, if I set the fence at the correct angle,and if my trigonometry is correct (big if!), I should be able to cut atone pass a bevel running from 0" to .062" in depth. (You get the taper second pass would take it either from .031 - .094 or from 0 - .094,depending on how I start the cut. And so on. Anybody done this? Doesit work? I made up some wood planing forms but they are constant depth. I used anold General 6" jointer and used a very fine cut and repeated until correctdepth was achieved. You have to be careful in setting your angles andmakesure you can support the wood accurately. It took 2 of us about an hourincluding all the fooling around to get what we wanted. I'm sure you will have little trouble if you take your time. Incidentallywe used birch wood. Good luck Dave M from channer@hubwest.com Thu Oct 8 22:20:16 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A1421AC0140; Thu, 08 Oct 1998 21:21:38 MDT Subject: Re: Angles At 09:23 PM 10/8/98 -0500, you wrote:Hello all,I started the final planing portion of my first rod last night, and Ihavea consistent problem that I hope someone may be able to comment on. AsIbegin to plane each stip (I'm on my fourth) I work first off to make surethe angles are right on. My problem is this: after I have managed to geteach of the non-enamel surfaces measuring within a couple thousandthsofeach other (measuring from each flat to opposing point), themeasurement from enamel side to opposite tip is way off--and I mean like severalhundreths off. I put a center gague to the strips and it appears that the"crown" of the enamel side is causing this probelm (i.e. if I just planedthe enamel flat the measurements would match up). I know that Waynesuggests leaving on .001 or so for enamel removal, but as I said mydiscrepancy is quite a bit more than that. I knew something was amiss soIleft them way oversized, just in case. I've decided to leave them aloneuntil I figure out what is going wrong here. I don't know if this has anyrelevance to this problem, but I am building the whole rod from a single6'section of cane; it started as a practice run through the things I learnedat SRG and things came out so well I decided to keep going. Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale Joe;When one side of your center guage is flat on a pith side and centered onthe enamel side, all is well. It is when the center guage does not hit themiddle of the enamel side that there is something wrong. It is for thisreason that I sand my strips flat either when I begin the final tapering,or partway thru, depending on how much oversize I have on the roughplanedstrips. I have to be a little more careful sanding the glue off so I don'tremove too much power fiber, but I find that my strips measure out betterand I don't have any pinched areas around the nodes because they have beensanded flat before they are planed all the way down to finsih dimension.Just what works for me. John Channer from AAARPTRADEUSA@webtv.net Thu Oct 8 22:36:23 1998 101.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with 101.iap.bryant.webtv.net(8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id UAA27019; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:36:21 -0700 ETAsAhQFbEUs20O1XgS13mHapH4axuS3SAIUaFzMwU8H/t8S18QBaScVuRrl4Cw= Subject: Old broken antique flyrods and other old hex wood deepsea & steelrods Hello Rodmakers, I'm new on the lists. Is there a proper method in the restoration ofseveral cane flyrods that my dad fished with? (1920's). All or most ofthe glue has let loose and I have a handfull of strips, (some of whichare broken "cracked" but all there). How does one begin to secure the strips, align them, select the glue,properly bind the glued rod for the proper and fishable repair anybreaks in individual strips, etc.? Do you align and glue (epoxy) andthen refinish? Are these old flyrods fishable or are they just mantlepieces? Some had jeweled masonic emblems on them and old flyreels.Should I reconstruct only to preserve the rod or should I restore it? Thanks for your help, John from saweiss@flash.net Thu Oct 8 23:09:48 1998 Subject: Re: Old broken antique flyrods and other old hex wood deepsea &steelrods -----Original Message----- Subject: Old broken antique flyrods and other old hex wood deepsea &steelrods Hello Rodmakers,I'm new on the lists. Is there a proper method in the restoration ofseveral cane flyrods that my dad fished with? (1920's). All or most ofthe glue has let loose and I have a handfull of strips, (some of whichare broken "cracked" but all there). How does one begin to secure the strips, align them, select the glue,properly bind the glued rod for the proper and fishable repair anybreaks in individual strips, etc.? Do you align and glue (epoxy) andthen refinish? Are these old flyrods fishable or are they just mantlepieces? Some had jeweled masonic emblems on them and old flyreels.Should I reconstruct only to preserve the rod or should I restore it?Thanks for your help, John John,It sounds like you have some basket cases.If you have some potentially collectible rods, maybe you should get anexpert to look at them and advise you.Restoration means original hardware, silk thread colors, and finish.There are several specialists available, some of which advertise in theBamboo magazine.Steve Weiss from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Thu Oct 8 23:58:54 1998 ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 16:58:56 +1200 Subject: RE: Blackening Guide Feet Chris , Jerry I have used markers for several years to match the colour of silk if i amrestoring an old rod and need to replace only one or two guides. I was told, sorry I cannot remember by who , to only use water based markers andtheywould not run. I have not had any problems with these, I just check thatwhen I am buying the label says they are water based. IankAt 08:14 PM 8/10/98 -0500, you wrote:Chris,I've always heard that if the marker has a "smell" to itthat it will run or is non-permanent. For the most part,Sharpies are *really* permanent (don't ask). -Jerry Ballardballard@zen.wes.army.mil ----Original Message-----From: "CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL" Subject: Blackening Guide Feet Date: Thursday, October 08, 1998 2:09 PM I need to blacken some guide feet ends where they were tapered. Ihave a Marks-A-Lot pen and a Sanford Sharpie pen. Both are permanent ink. Not really looking for other suggestions at this point, but would like toknow if anyone has used these brands, then varnished over. No colorpreserver will be used and the wraps are white and will go clear so the feet will show. I guess the question is does anyone know what the base of thesepens is composed of. Alchohol ? I don't want the black ink to run when I varnish since the wraps are clear. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Thu Oct 8 23:58:59 1998 ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 16:58:52 +1200 Subject: Re: Sanding Blanks I think I recall the late Sir D mentioning that he even planed the face ofrods ... Iank At 02:02 AM 9/10/98 GMT, you wrote:A while back we discussed the pro's and con's of sanding old blanks to clean them up or alter the taper some. ...... Is this consistent with what some of you with more historical knowledge know to be true, or was it a flippant statement made without any real basis since the book is a very general overview of the entire realm of fishing, and not specific tobamboo rod making. Chris, I've been told that the old timers did, indeed, sand to tune. I'd loveto know more, because, I'm messing around with the same Idea. So far most of my rods have come out very fast, but not very pleasant tocast. I got some good hints at the SRG. Onward. Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Thu Oct 8 23:59:00 1998 ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 16:58:59 +1200 Subject: Re: Old broken antique flyrods and other old hex wood deepsea& steelrods John, I suggest you try to get hold of a copy of "Bamboo Rod RestorationHandbook" think there is a link to it in the home page of this list and it may beavailable at your local library possibly via interloan service. Off hand itseems to me that unfortunately that your rods may be past restoring forfishing , but a proper restoration( refinish ?) will make them into greatconversation pieces and they may be worth preserving for their historicvalue. Also , a famous rodmaker , who used to be on this list , wrote in his bookthat he did not do restorations as it took less time to make a new rod.Restoring rods is a great past time and very satisfying , but very verytimeconsuming . However do not be detered and if you need any furtherinformation contact me , or others on this list who may offer help .Iank ps Those reels could be also worth tidying up , there are a lot ofcollectors of old reels . At 11:36 PM 8/10/98 -0400, you wrote:Hello Rodmakers, I'm new on the lists. Is there a proper method in the restoration ofseveral cane flyrods that my dad fished with? (1920's). All or most ofthe glue has let loose and I have a handfull of strips, (some of whichare broken "cracked" but all there). How does one begin to secure the strips, align them, select the glue,properly bind the glued rod for the proper and fishable repair anybreaks in individual strips, etc.? Do you align and glue (epoxy) andthen refinish? Are these old flyrods fishable or are they just mantlepieces? Some had jeweled masonic emblems on them and old flyreels.Should I reconstruct only to preserve the rod or should I restore it? Thanks for your help, John Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz from saltwein@swbell.net Fri Oct 9 06:31:27 1998 gw2adm.rcsntx.swbell.net GAA26278 Subject: Re: Angles ............ but I find that my strips measure out betterand I don't have any pinched areas around the nodes because they havebeensanded flat before they are planed all the way down to finsih dimension.Just what works for me. John Channer This is also the process I am using now. SteveIndependence, MO from WILHELM.RON@epamail.epa.gov Fri Oct 9 08:19:44 1998 10 #26439)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; withNovell_GroupWise; Fri, 09 Oct 1998 09:17:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Wooden planing forms -Reply John; It would be a great help if you could provide a source for your 60 degreerouter bit. I have had some trouble in locating one. Any info would beappreciated. Thanks Ron Wilhelm from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Oct 9 08:50:24 1998 (modemcable70.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Wooden planing forms -Reply Hi Ron, Lee Valley Tools sells a 60 degree router bit. Their number is 1 800267- 8767. The item number in their catalog is 16j14.01 and sells for$23.75cdn which is a couple of bucks in U.S. dollars. Usual disclaimer applies. Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Wooden planing forms -Reply John; It would be a great help if you could provide a source for your 60 degreerouter bit. I have had some trouble in locating one. Any info would beappreciated. Thanks Ron Wilhelm from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Oct 9 09:13:41 1998 Subject: Re: Angles At 21:23 08/10/98 -0500, you wrote:Hello all,I started the final planing portion [ huge snip] Joe, Some ideas about your problem: 1] The pith compresses under the pressure of your mic or caliper and thiswill make the enamel dimension seem a little less than the other sideswhere non- compressible cane is measured. This is more noticeable in thebutt sections - the tip sections have very little pith @ the midpoint andnone near the tip. 2] You have to watch just how much pressure you use on your measurementunit. Over pressure could yield some error. Mics are slightly more accurateas they have a device [ in the better ones] that will not allowoverpressure. Calipers you can really shove home. 3] The forms may not be exactly level across them allowing the pith tobendslightly away from the plane leaving a feathery pith piece that will foldaway from your measurement device. As someone mentioned, taking the enamel side to a flat surface about0.020"oversize then final planning will remove most of the errors. Don from rmoon@ida.net Fri Oct 9 09:25:39 1998 Subject: Re: Wooden planing forms -Reply Sears used to sell a 60 degree router bit. I bought a couple a longtime ago, but I don't know if they are currently availableRalph Moon from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Oct 9 09:29:56 1998