might have been for the developing world had the federal beaurocracy not= to even process Dr. Goldblum's grant applications, citing "overly = and highly improbable name of institution"? And while the project certainly was ambitious, I personally think = the cause for failure was the fact that, due to the aforementioned lack = funding, lab assistants were largely drawn from the Dennis Weaver School= Psychopharmacology and Video Drama's highly controversial Cannabis = experience overpowering hunger urges while in possession of the keys to = Goldblum's specimen tank. -----Original Message-----From:= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Okay, = was made a week or two ago about fishing for golden trout. = = ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BDFCB2.975A55E0-- from bdcreek@grand-rapids.crosswinds.net Wed Oct 21 07:46:12 1998 (envelope- from bdcreek@grand-rapids.crosswinds.net) Subject: Re: Hand-rubbed finishes Al- Hand-rubbed varnish usually refers to a process of rubbing out thefinish with a very mild abrasive like rottenstone powder. Garrison'sbook shows how he did it. There are some polishing compounds availablenow for use on varnish, and I believe I read where some makers useautomotive polishing compound.The process removes all survace imperfections and produces aglass-smooth finish if you spend the time on it. I use fine wet/drysandpaper followed by rottenstone powder to rub-out the finish untilthere are no glaring errors, but stop when I'm at a satin finish ratherthan a gloss finish. Just a matter of taste.Hope this helps, Brian from destinycon@mindspring.com Wed Oct 21 07:58:11 1998 Subject: Re: Golden Trout At 10:02 PM 10/19/98 EDT, you wrote:Joe,These are palomino trout originating in W. Va. The true golden trout areout west in the Sierra mtns.Hank. Hank, Joe,They (goldens) were stocked into a few high lakes in CO and WY in thelatefifties. (I beleive these were the only stockings outside CA) Some stillexist, although the ones I have encountered were all cross bred, they are arare find indeed. Gary H. from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed Oct 21 08:05:34 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2);Wed, 21Oct 1998 09:14:19 -0400 Subject: Re: titebond ll I did use TBII on my first rod. Worked fine. Be forewarned! The stuff starts setting up in a few minutes. A pain in the butt to bind with. I guess it is not that bad, but binding becomes a much more stressful experience. Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277- 4510 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from fritzwiese@webtv.net Wed Oct 21 08:28:54 1998 mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP idGAA04338; 111.iap.bryant.webtv.net(8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id GAA13194; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 06:28:51 -0700 ETAsAhRGoYJ/fUy8Z1byDRRpJiCx6eW8mAIUBOqTCC0Ku8MZ2/tMpEzLFKU+xxA= Subject: New Member Have been making rug beaters for many years but now wish to plane myown.Looking in the archives noted that one person added metal tape to soleof plane. I do have self adhesive stainless(like used by auto shops) Itmikes .005. Would this be satisfactory clearance for that use? Thank you, Fritz Wiese from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Wed Oct 21 08:44:40 1998 08:44:03 ix11.ix.netcom.comvia smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: P.U.I. OK, I'll bite. What's B. U. I.? Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 09:08 PM 10/17/98 -0700, you wrote:onis,i CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: I enjoyed reading it. The local homebrew supply here sellsreconditioned=5 gal. soft drink kegs. Mine are empty right now. Darn, I need to getcaught up on this building long enough to make a batch. Planing wouldbemore fun if I didn't have to work with a dry throat. Redgards,Onis Be careful Onis, you could be cited on a PUI (Planing under influence ofanintoxicating beverage). The bamboo police may drop by and run youthroughthe following sobriety tests. You'll need to plane in a straight line with no wobbling of the plane iron. Then recite all of the famous rodmakers by name in reversealphabeticalorder. Finally, you must look up, arms extended and touch the tip of your nosewith a wobbly tip strip. If you fail, your planing license may be suspended. Be careful!! Chris onis,i will also check your blood for B.U.I.,nurse ratchet from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Oct 21 09:10:24 1998 Subject: Re: Re: In Need of Help! George,Back in the late 40's I was using a telescopic steel rod (which I hated)and it seems to me,while the no. designation was not around then, the rodfeltlike a 6 or 7-of course it probably wasn't a true temper whatever and mymemory may be way off. Anyway,FWIW.Hank. from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Oct 21 10:16:02 1998 Subject: Re: titebond ll Ed, I used it on rod #1 and am in the process of rod#2. It is pretty easyto work with, but I don't have a rod built that has much age on it, so Idon't know how it will stand the test of time. Have some Resorcinol andplan to use it one of these days. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Ed Miller Subject: titebond llDate: Saturday, October 17, 1998 8:10 PM A NUMBER OF RODMAKERS THAT ARE CURRENTLY MAKING NODELESS RODSUSE TITEBOND II FOR THE SPLICES. DOES ANYONE CURRENTLY USE TITEBOND IIAS THEIR MAIN ADHESIVE? ANY COMMENTS ARE WELCOME. ED M. from GDAVIS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU Wed Oct 21 10:59:32 1998 #20257) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed,21 Oct 1998 10:59:33 CDT Subject: Re: Tightbond II I use Tightbond II for nodeless splices, joining the 6 strips and cork-to-cork joints in the grip. I like it very much. The only difficulty I find is in binding; because TBII sets up quickly, you don't have any spare time for head- scratchin' while you bind and straighten. Therefore, I like to tune my binder before spreading the glue. I take a bad, rough-planed, equilateral strip (I made one of these once; the reason escapes me now :^) and plane off the apices until it's about the size of a rod tip. This makes an informative "dry run" through the binder. After the glue hardened on my first rod, I found that the glued segments had become approximately .01" oversize, maybe because the bamboo swelled with the TBII application. After 3-4 weeks in a warming cabinet (60 watt light bulb inside), the sticks returned to the size to which I had cut them plus one or two mils. Fortunately, TBII will allow heat- gun straightening of the glued segments.- Grayson from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed Oct 21 13:02:11 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2);Wed, 21Oct 1998 13:50:52 -0400 Subject: Re: World's Best Finish I spoke with Nicholson and Grobet. I need more information. ie: Type, American or Swiss Pattern, Cutt, Tooth Angle, Length, Width. I know we would like a 3/4 - 1" wide, and it is an 8 cut. That's about all I know. Take care,Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Wed Oct 21 16:23:31 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Hook-keeper rings That is like "French polishing" or "French rubbed"...the varnish is rubbedout with pumice (in oil) then rottenstone in oil. George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Hook-keeper rings Hope my ignorance doesn't show too much with this question, I varnishrodswith a brush, several times I see "HAND RUBBED VARNISH"! Please help tounderstand how this is accomplished! Thanks. Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, October 17, 1998 1:36 AM Subject: Re: Hook-keeper rings Well, the popular concenus seems to be that I can usesterling silverwithout any problem (except maybe some tarnish over thewinter)...wow, myrods will have sterling silver fittings!!! Okay, okay soit's just onelittle ring, but hey... :-) Steve asks where I found the wire. I found both nicklesilver wire andsterling silver wire at places that sell beads. I hadpicked up a wholespool of 26 gauge NS wire for about $3.00, but it turned outto be a tadtoo small. After the ring was soldered it held it's shapealright, but Ithought it would look better with a little thicker ring.Went back to thestore looking for 22 gauge which they didn't have, butsuggested I try thesterling wire. Thanks for all the input guys... Mike- from bacon@idt.net Wed Oct 21 19:28:12 1998 Subject: Re: Hook-keeper rings Ken Cole wrote: sideof the rod, away from the casting plane, to permit wrapping the leaderaround the reel as I described? I don't think another wrap outside ofthe casting plane would afect the action, but I've never done it.> Something else to snag the fly line. My 2o. Ken Coleken,besides having the hookkeeper as "something else to snag the flyline",you JUST DON'T NEED IT, so why bother...(i also think it's cool NOT tohave one, 'cause orvis DOES...and i can't stand orvis. thanks jean aka nurse ratchet from bacon@idt.net Wed Oct 21 19:46:10 1998 Subject: Re: RODMAKERS Adminstrativia Dick Fogel wrote: In regard to the routine postings........when I post no matter what I post itcomes back to me and goes to all on the site.........might be better if itwereeasier to post only to the sender (top line (From) or to all.......can this beprogramed........I think this would help with the irritation of the excesspostings......... Mike Biondo wrote: Hello Friends... I have a few IMPORTANT announcements affecting us all on theRODMAKERS list. #1 ... We now have another RODMAKERS Listguy!!! Long timelistmember,Jerry Ballard (ballard@zen.wes.army.mil) has most graciously acceptedmyplea for help. (For you longtime members, Jerry was the one whocreatedTAPERMAIL, the original email version of Wayne's HEXROD.) Soeveryoneplease welcome Jerry as our new Listguy-in-Training, and go easy onhim, atleast for a few days! ;-) #2 ... The RODMAKERS Guidelines document and Welcome message isnowcomplete! I will be forever thankful to the Reverend Doctor Harry Boyd(fbcwin@fsbnet.com) for his help and patience in generating thesedocuments. The WELCOME message will be automatically distributed toeachperson as they subscribe to the list. The INFO file is an expandedversionof the WELCOME message, and will be sent in response to the LISTPROCcommand: INFO RODMAKERS. The WELCOME message also outlines howto obtainthis file. I will include the WELCOME message at the end of this. PLEASE, please,everyone, take a moment to read through the attached WELCOMEmessage, andto download the INFO file. Read them through, we are genuinelyinterest inyour thoughts on these documents. Also if you have any suggestions,pleaseforward them to myself, or Harry. Once again, join me in extending my thanks to both Jerry and Harry... Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~WELCOME message~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Welcome to RODMAKERS!!! The list's main emphasis is Bamboo Rodmaking, Restoring, andCollecting.!!!! PLEASE SAVE THIS MESSAGE!!!You will doubtlessly find occasion to refer to it later. To send mail to the list use the following email address:RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu The maintainers of the list are:Mike Biondo michael@wugate.wustl.eduJerry Ballard ballard@zen.wes.army.mil In addition to this note, there are two additional documents you shouldknow about. An INFO/FAQ file answers many questions about how youcanmaximize the benefits of the list, and details what is expected of youas a list member. The other document is a HELP file describing usefulmail server commands to customize your subscription settings. Pleasetake a moment to download and read these files. You as listmembersareresponsible for their familiarity. LISTPROC@mail.wustl.edu Leave subject line blank, and in the body of the message, type:INFO RODMAKERSHELP If there is anything you do not understand, please feel free to contactone of the list maintainers. The RODMAKERS list began in 1994 with a handful of friends interestedinregularly communicating with each other on the subject of rodmaking,andhas grown to over 500 makers and lovers of bamboo rods, from worldrenownedexperts to complete beginners. People from all over our world findthis avaluable resource. Jerry Foster maintains a complete archive of the list at:http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm Every post and response to the list since records were kept is storedthere for our use. Extensive lists of resources, tapers, and suppliersof rodmaking goodies are catalogued there as well. Questions can oftenmore quickly be answered by referring to the web page, than posting aquestion to the list. Please take advantage of this resource. To help the list serve your needs best, please: A. Feel free to ask questions, and more importantly, if someone asks aquestion about which you have information, give freely and willinglyof the what you have to offer. "There are no stupid questions exceptthose which remain unasked." B. When replying to a question or statement posted to the list, pleaseinclude only enough of the original message to indicate the context ofyour response. If you simply reply to the entire post, reading throughthe responses gets tedious and clutters the archives with repeatinformation. C. This is a good-natured list. Strong language, spam, and flaming arenot welcome. Repeat offenders will be removed from the list. D. Try to keep your posts relevant to the subject of rodmaking. We allwander from time to time, please keep it to a minimum. E. Remember to keep commercial activities as private as possible. Most,if not all, business transactions are more appropriately handledthroughprivate email, or through a phone call. If you have any question aboutthe appropriateness of a post by which you might profit, please referto that section of the INFO file, or contact the list owner forclarification. F. Finally, remember this Listserver operates on the honor system withrespect to all these guidelines, so please respect them, enjoy theconversations, and catch a few fish! Again, welcome to RODMAKERS,and enjoy!mike,i am trying to filter through the rodmakers, to get an idea aboutbuilding bamboo rods..and I HAVE. ..thank you so much! i appreciate theenormous time and effort you must put into it..i have not yet done so,but definitely WILL in the future build a rod..in the meantime, i willtry to follow more closely the rodmakers guidelines, (it's hardsometimes cause there are so many others with the same interests, eg.fishing). will keep my mouth shut until i get all the info i need. thank you again jean (bacon@idt.net) from sats@gte.net Wed Oct 21 20:22:02 1998 Subject: Re: Hook-keeper rings sideof the rod, away from the casting plane, to permit wrapping the leaderaround the reel as I described? I don't think another wrap outside ofthe casting plane would afect the action, but I've never done it.> Ken,I've wondered about the same thing. I usually have a leader 1 1/4 to 11/2times the length of the rod. (about 9ft.) It's just to easy to wrap itaroundthe back of the reel and hook to the stripper or even one of the snakes. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from maxs@geocities.co.jp Wed Oct 21 21:48:37 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id LAA03997for; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:48:32 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Growing your own cane Ralph W Moon wrote: Thanks Max. The bamboo was definitely on the white side as comparedwith conventional bamboo, although it was a messow yellowish white. Iwill try to see if I have Mr. Urano's address. and let you knowRalph Ralph, sorry to be late in answerring. I found that a certain bamboo wholeseller here has so called "WhiteBamboo". White Bamboo is not the name for a kind of bamboos whichgrowsbut a knid of merchandises produced. White bamboo is artificially made process will get rid of oil element and dirt out of the canes, andresults in beautiful ivory, yellowish-white enamel surface. I am interested in three things here. One is the method of getting ridof oil element out of cane. the second is its diameters ranging from 2"to 3". The thrid is its color. I would try this for fly rod after searching its strength. If I taperit rather thicker than Tonkin, it might be used for fly rod, even if thepower fiber is thinner than Tonkin. There is another artificial colored bamboo called "Tiger Bamboo" whichhas a beautiful patterns on the surface with dark brown color. Diameteris also 2~3". This pattern is made while the cane surface is still softwhile growing up, they put very thin sulphuric acid on the entiresurface. When the cane grows, the brown color is splitted or spread onthe surface and makes several patterns like tiger skin. These above are all being used for interior/garden exterior decolation. I had another question of "Why we scrape off enamel of bamboo" in rodmaking. I also would try not scrape the enamel off for next rod whenusing above colored canes. My thought now (conceptuallyl) is that afterfinal planing and glueing with enamel on, I should round off the flowershape blank to have completely round rod with the color of original caneleft. How do you think about this as A new kind of bamboo fly rod. http://home2.highway.or.jp/y-asai/meitiku.htmThough this page is in Japanese, it has photos of several coloredbamboos. http://web.kyoto-inet.or.jp/people/takehei/This is English page. Regards, Max -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from jwilcox@netsync.net Wed Oct 21 22:03:04 1998 quartz.netsync.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA27362 for; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 23:02:57 -0400 Subject: titebond II boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0053_01BDFD46.DD6EB500" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01BDFD46.DD6EB500 Ed, Mike Clark uses titebond II for the gluing up his rods. he told me =that he hasn't had a rod returned yet that has suffered a delamination. =it's pretty tough stuff. jim wilcox ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01BDFD46.DD6EB500 Ed, Mike Clark uses titebond II for the gluing up = wilcox ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01BDFD46.DD6EB500-- from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Thu Oct 22 00:01:22 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2);Wed, 21Oct 1998 22:45:19 -0400 Subject: test testJon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from saweiss@flash.net Thu Oct 22 00:01:34 1998 Subject: flaming My question is for you cane flamers.How dark do you make it?I did one according to Wayne's directions, actually blistered the enamel,but the charring went pretty deep. I had to remove a lot of outside layersto get down to sound fibers. The rod color is a dark "tortoise shell". Thetaper is a Cattanach 7 1/2' 4-wt that prefers a WF5. The strips had to becarefully handled because the edges were brittle. Glued up fine and looksgreat.Any comments on flaming depth and/or color?Steve from jpsnbs@erols.com Thu Oct 22 06:39:03 1998 Subject: Silence I assume there is a problem with the list again. I have not received mailsince late Tuesday (10/20). Just checking to see if I'm the only one or ifI should buy a new cologne. I have had to unsubscribe and re-up severaltimes in recent past to resume the flow of messages. This is apparentlytrue of many others as reflected in the messages I received Tuesday. Ifanyone gets this feel free to dial direct.Thanks, Joe Swamjpsnbs@erols.com from fritzwiese@webtv.net Thu Oct 22 06:40:01 1998 mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP idEAA04639; 111.iap.bryant.webtv.net(8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id EAA03367; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 04:40:00 -0700 ETAtAhRYjMq4guirt1hdpSpphsthPyw3uAIVAMjLYsVWel7KQ2KsWbh5VV9JYpD4 Subject: test from Canerods@aol.com Thu Oct 22 07:02:53 1998 Subject: Re: Golden Trout In a message dated 10/20/98 6:20:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time,FISHWOOL@aol.comwrites: When fishing the Box Canyon section of the Henry's Fork last month, I sawanorange fish in the water. It looked just like a large Koi. (SP? - orientalgoldfish) I asked the guide what the heck it was and he said it was a Konnee (SP ??again) salmon - and quite rare to see one in that section of the river too. Don Burns from saweiss@flash.net Thu Oct 22 08:42:48 1998 Subject: Re: flaming My question is for you cane flamers.How dark do you make it?I did one according to Wayne's directions, actually blistered the enamel,but the charring went pretty deep. I had to remove a lot of outside layersto get down to sound fibers. The rod color is a dark "tortoise shell". Thetaper is a Cattanach 7 1/2' 4-wt that prefers a WF5. The strips had to becarefully handled because the edges were brittle. Glued up fine and looksgreat.Any comments on flaming depth and/or color?Steve from Anachemrpo@aol.com Thu Oct 22 09:08:15 1998 Subject: Check-split question Hello again listers, .Mmost instructions indicate to start the splits in ones culm from the buttend.Is there any compelling reason to not take advantage of one of the tip-endsplits (3 or 4 about six inches log) already present in a new culm for astarting point to make my initail check split? TIA, Russ Lavigne from FlyTyr@southshore.com Thu Oct 22 09:27:00 1998 natco.southshore.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA22274 for; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 08:28:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Montague Rod Jerry,Thanks for the info,I think we decided to trade for a bow that I can't use any more.Thanks again.Tony Jerry Quinn wrote: Tony Spezio wrote: I have been offered a Montague Sunbeam 3 pc. two tip rod. The finishisin very good condition so are the guides and wraps. They appear to beoriginal. The decal is intact and very little warping in the tips. Thetips appear to be different, one seems to be stiffer that the other.Both male ferrules are cracked almost the full length though it doesnotseem the rod has been used much. The cork grip is in very goodcondition. There is no tube or bag.I want to make him a fair offer on the rod.Any comments would be appreciated OFF LIST unless you feel it wouldbenefit the list.Thanks,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.comhi tony i just bought a montaque sunbeam mainly to get the enameledsilk line on the reel. the rod is in rougher shape than yours. onetip is broke just above the top snake guide, guides on center sectionare rusted in half. all the ferrules are split, seems to be a commonproblem. so rod needs new snake guides, wraps, and frrules to restore.got a shakespeare 1821 automatic reel and a level enameled silk line.paid forty bucks for the outfit.. so take it from there! from MICK@welfen-netz.com Thu Oct 22 09:30:18 1998 [195.143.56.1]with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Thu,22 Oct 199816:29:26 +0200 Subject: Re: moisture in blank Hi Max,as I understand the heat treatment is not only a process to dry the bamboobut also a hygrophobian process as well. The varnish protects from waterbut as I'm told at school not from moisture. So a certain amount ofmoisture is getting back to the blank but lesser than before heattreatment. Hope that helps you and I don't get flamed by those who know it better (asbefore)Michael Max Satoh wrote: Dear list, I just put ferrules for two rods, (Jim Payne 200 and Chrys Bogards'Shenandoah Supreme #4 piece),which were planed last January and being woked on gradually throughrainy season here. This summer, we had many typhoon and many rainydays. When I ironed the blank for straighening, the surface got wet because ofiron heat. And when adjusting the straighteness of a whole length afterconnecting all sections, the blank is easily tend to bend even I force apower without heating it. So I guess that a considerable amount ofmoisture is inside the blank.Have you experienced this?Any advice is appreciated to get rid of the moisture of blank in thissituation. Thanks, Max --Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Oct 22 10:33:21 1998 0500 Subject: Re: moisture in blank Max,I had the same problem with a rod built last winter. I corrected it bykeeping the already glued and sanded blank in a heated environment forseveral weeks. The blank not only lost moisture but decreased in size. Atthe time Wayne Cattanach, who is a heating contractor and thus knowsthesethings, suggested a formula by which one can determine the degree of heatnecessary to displace moisture. I don't remember exactly, but somethingtothe effect that every 5* Farenheit rise above ambient temperaturereduceshumidity by a certain percentage. Here in Louisiana, (near tropicalSouthern United States) with average temperature at 90* F and averagehumidity levels near 80%, I raised the temperature to 135* Farenheit in adrying cabinet and left the blank there for 6 weeks. The problem wentaway. I wish I could be more specific, but that's all I remember. Thisproblem is another one of those which I don't completely understand, buthave learned how to correct. I have no doubt that your creativity willcomeup with an elegant solution.To prevent this problem from re-occuring, I now keep my split stripsandplaned strips in a capped PVC pipe with several ounces of silica geldessicant. I remove one strip at a time, and replace it in the pipe when Iam not working on it. I don't yet know how well this will work long-term,as I've only been doing this for a few months.Hope this helps,Harry Boyd Max Satoh wrote: Dear list, I just put ferrules for two rods, (Jim Payne 200 and Chrys Bogards'Shenandoah Supreme #4 piece),which were planed last January and being woked on gradually throughrainy season here. This summer, we had many typhoon and many rainydays. When I ironed the blank for straighening, the surface got wet because ofiron heat. And when adjusting the straighteness of a whole length afterconnecting all sections, the blank is easily tend to bend even I force apower without heating it. So I guess that a considerable amount ofmoisture is inside the blank.Have you experienced this?Any advice is appreciated to get rid of the moisture of blank in thissituation. Thanks, Max --Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from dhaftel@att.com Thu Oct 22 10:40:43 1998 sender att.com!dhaftel (att.com!dhaftel); Thu Oct 22 09:53 CDT 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) (5.5.2232.9) Subject: RE: Hook-keeper rings KAA16680 You GO Jean! Besides... A real man would just quietly bury the hook in his hand to avoidsnagging his fishin' buddies while moving from spot to spot! BTW: Anyonehave a good method of cleaning blood off of cork? Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Jean Conelli [SMTP:bacon@idt.net]Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 1998 10:37 PM Subject: Re: Hook-keeper rings Ken Cole wrote: sideof the rod, away from the casting plane, to permit wrapping the leaderaround the reel as I described? I don't think another wrap outside ofthe casting plane would afect the action, but I've never done it.> Something else to snag the fly line. My 2o. Ken Coleken,besides having the hookkeeper as "something else to snag the flyline",you JUST DON'T NEED IT, so why bother...(i also think it's cool NOT tohave one, 'cause orvis DOES...and i can't stand orvis. thanks jean aka nurse ratchet from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Oct 22 10:42:49 1998 0500 Subject: Re: Hook-keeper rings john channer wrote: I use the ones on my rods to get from one pool to the next, or from thetruckto theriver. >>snipped>snipped Harry, do you tie your own leaders, or add on to store bought ones?snipped from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Oct 22 10:48:20 1998 Subject: Re: moisture in blank Max - You should be able to dry the strips quickly with heat. If yourclimateis always humid, it would be worthwhile to build a dry storage box. This issimply a box that is heated with a light bulb. One builder I know cut anaccess door into a heating duct in his house and dries out strips that way.Ineither case, a few days drying should be effective. You might also try a short, low temperature ( about 200*F) treatment inyourheat treating oven. Weigh the strips carefully and stop the treatment whenthey stop losing weight. from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Oct 22 10:55:10 1998 (modemcable31.174.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: Leaders I agree that braided butt leaders are fabulous for dry fly fishing. Theyturn over small flies really well and produce much longer drag-free floatsthat regular hand-tied leaders. One problem with a braided butt leader,though, is that if ever you get a tangle in the braided section for whateverreason, it's a total mess and will likely result in having to throw thewhole thing out and buy a new one for $10. My vote for a dry fly leader is the one presented in The Dry Fly: NewAngles nests. Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Hook-keeper rings john channer wrote: I use the ones on my rods to get from one pool to the next, or from thetruckto theriver. >>snipped>snipped Harry, do you tie your own leaders, or add on to store bought ones?snipped from pdcorlis@nidc.edu Thu Oct 22 11:00:51 1998 with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:01:31 -0700 Subject: Re: Golden Trout LAA01443 Hi Don I think your guide was referring to Kokanee Salmon. In northern Idaho theyaremaking a come back after some mismanagement in the past. If I remembercorrectlythey are a land locked salmon that spends most of their time in deep lakesmovingup river to spawn in the fall. A real sight to see for us inlanders. Hope this isn't too far off topic! Phil from saltwein@swbell.net Thu Oct 22 11:04:06 1998 gw2adm.rcsntx.swbell.net LAA03172 Subject: Herter Taper Pulled the Herter taper from the archives. Does anyone know if thesemeasurements are with varnish or without? HDH, is that a seven weightline. TIA. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Oct 22 11:12:14 1998 (modemcable31.174.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Herter Taper Hi Steve, According to my sources (Fishing Bamboo by John Gierach) the HDH is aDT6. All the best Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: Herter Taper Pulled the Herter taper from the archives. Does anyone know if thesemeasurements are with varnish or without? HDH, is that a seven weightline. TIA. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from rmoon@ida.net Thu Oct 22 11:12:36 1998 Subject: Re: titebond II I use Titebond II Extend. It adds a few minutes more working time.Ralph from rmoon@ida.net Thu Oct 22 11:26:44 1998 Subject: Re: Golden Trout Don the spelling is Kokanee (Salmon) They have been planted in theIsland Park Resevoir, and although when they spawn they will go into theHenry"s Fork above the Reservoir, it is true that there are not manywhich get into the Box Canyon area. The Golden Color is a spawningcolor and not a year round dressing. Ralph from saweiss@flash.net Thu Oct 22 11:53:23 1998 Subject: flaming sorry about the double message.I wrote the first when there was a problem with the list and I had noindication that it went through. from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Thu Oct 22 12:02:14 1998 NAA10726 ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 13:02:03 -0400 Subject: RE: moisture in blank Can anyone advise me how to properly perform "HAND RUBBED Varnishing". Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, October 22, 1998 11:41 AM Subject: Re: moisture in blank Max - You should be able to dry the strips quickly withheat. If your climateis always humid, it would be worthwhile to build a drystorage box. This issimply a box that is heated with a light bulb. One builder Iknow cut anaccess door into a heating duct in his house and dries outstrips that way. Ineither case, a few days drying should be effective. You might also try a short, low temperature ( about 200*F)treatment in yourheat treating oven. Weigh the strips carefully and stop thetreatment whenthey stop losing weight. from ljrp@penn.com Thu Oct 22 12:27:35 1998 Subject: Re: Flameing Many moons ago I "flamed" a rod by using believe it or not " iodine" thatwas at least 50 years ago and the rod looks as it did when refinished. Youcan also use stain to "imo" flamed shafts............Best Dick fromcentral PaA.J.Thramer wrote: Having built more than a few of the 15 tapers there are two problems,the first is the Yound tendency to experiment. a restless attempt toachieve bamboo perfection I think. The second is that the taper respondsvery well to quality cane. Good cane will result in a wf5, wf6, dt6, wf7rod. Poor cane will not have the power that was originally designed intothe taper.Another point is that No rod is perfect with a single line weight, ifthe builder thinks a 5 is the best but you prefer a faster rod thendon't hesitate to use a 4.A.J.Thramer from walkermoody@email.msn.com Thu Oct 22 13:07:50 1998 (may beforged)) SMTPSVC;Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:07:16 -0700 Subject: Re: Golden Trout I am pretty late into this having been away from my computer for a fewdays.Golden Trout originated in the Kern River system in the SierraNevada.Subsequently it was propagated by some hatcheries and found itswayto other Western states.It does however only survive in cold high altitudemountain lakes and streams.The fish can look like a freak with shades ofcrimson,green,yellow and black.It retains a heavy black spotted tail and arow ofleftover parr markings that disappear from other trout.Goldens thathave been raised at low altitudes grow to a more normal silvery-bluecolour.The record for a Golden is 11lbs taken from Cooks Lake,Wyoming in1948.Hope this helps.-----Original Message----- Subject: Golden Trout Hey guys,Okay, this is probably a bit off-topic, so you can reply off-list. Somemention was made a week or two ago about fishing for golden trout. Thismorning I was fishing the newly stocked Devil's Kitchen lake here is s.Illinois and caught a number really bizzare looking 'bows. They were, I kidyou not, bannana yellow. I was told that they were the product of geneticmanipulation and were stocked with the more normal ones to helpfishermanlocate fish. Hmmmm. So are these the golden trout that were spoken of?Theywere really, really odd. Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from tom@cet-inc.com Thu Oct 22 13:15:34 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Check-split question Russ,That's what I do if there is an existing split. I've even started at anexisting split in the middle and worked to both ends.Tom-----Original Message----- Subject: Check-split question .Is there any compelling reason to not take advantage of one of the tip- endsplits (3 or 4 about six inches log) already present in a new culm for astarting point to make my initail check split? TIA, Russ Lavigne from tfinger@services.state.mo.us Thu Oct 22 13:19:04 1998 Subject: Re: Flameing Dick Fogel wrote: Many moons ago I "flamed" a rod by using believe it or not " iodine" thatwas at least 50 years ago and the rod looks as it did when refinished. Youcan also use stain to "imo" flamed shafts. John Zimny once told me that iodine was the technique that was used on the F.E. Thomas Browntone rods. Maybe it was an accidental discovery made while treating a cane cut. Haven't had the chance to try it yet. Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Oct 22 13:29:23 1998 0500 Subject: Re: Dave Leclair Don,I'm not Dave, but I do know his address:LECLAIR123@aol.com Hope this helps,Harry Boyd Don Andersen wrote:Dave, You out there - need email addressDon from mweber@icscorp.com Thu Oct 22 14:00:40 1998 mgmt-server1.icscorp.com(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ;Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:53:48 -0400 15:03:58 -0400 Subject: RE: flaming =_NextPart_000_01BDFDCD.31F1DFE0" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDFDCD.31F1DFE0 Steve, Sounds like you have a pretty rod going. I have flamed REALLY dark, =charring black on the outside, then working down through the outside =layers as you mentioned and reaching the same "tortoise shell" color. =You're right, it looks great. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder, =the blond guys will probably think we're nuts! Best,Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: flaming My question is for you cane flamers.How dark do you make it?I did one according to Wayne's directions, actually blistered the =enamel,but the charring went pretty deep. I had to remove a lot of outside =layersto get down to sound fibers. The rod color is a dark "tortoise shell". =Thetaper is a Cattanach 7 1/2' 4-wt that prefers a WF5. The strips had to =becarefully handled because the edges were brittle. Glued up fine and =looksgreat.Any comments on flaming depth and/or color?Steve ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDFDCD.31F1DFE0 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDFDCD.31F1DFE0-- from saltwein@swbell.net Thu Oct 22 14:13:33 1998 gw1adm.rcsntx.swbell.net OAA20605 Subject: Re: New Member ...... mikes .005. Would this be satisfactory clearance for that use? Thank you, Fritz Wiese It should work fine Fritz. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from dhaftel@att.com Thu Oct 22 14:15:49 1998 sender att.com!dhaftel (att.com!dhaftel); Thu Oct 22 14:07 EDT 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) (5.5.2232.9) Subject: RE: glue / adhesive poll ? Hi Kent, I've never glued one up, but I've got two big bottles of Epon sitting in mybasement. As soon as I get done P.U.I., I'm gonna crack 'em open. Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Rodsofcane@aol.com [SMTP:Rodsofcane@aol.com]Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 1998 6:02 AM Subject: glue / adhesive poll ? Once again it is poll time! I am trying to find out what most of you useasfar as glue to put together ? I am getting close to putting my first rodtogether and of course want to use the best. Also something that has agoodshelve life ! Thanx,Kent K. Anderson from thramer@presys.com Thu Oct 22 14:49:55 1998 0000 Subject: Re: glue / adhesive poll ? Rodsofcane@aol.com wrote: Once again it is poll time! I am trying to find out what most of you useasfar as glue to put together ? I am getting close to putting my first rodtogether and of course want to use the best. Also something that has agoodshelve life ! Thanx,Kent K. AndersonI always reccomend that a beginner without the hands on help of arodbuilder start with rescorcinol.A.J.Thramer from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Thu Oct 22 15:52:18 1998 QAA05774 Subject: RE: Hand-rubbed finishes Brian, thanks. I do rub down rods with rottenstone with mineral oil. I geta haze after completion. Do I need to do anything else? I will readGarrisons book. Again, Thanks! Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message-----From: Brian Creek Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 1998 8:48 AM Subject: Re: Hand-rubbed finishes Al- Hand-rubbed varnish usually refers to a process ofrubbing out thefinish with a very mild abrasive like rottenstone powder.Garrison'sbook shows how he did it. There are some polishingcompounds availablenow for use on varnish, and I believe I read where somemakers useautomotive polishing compound.The process removes all survace imperfections andproduces aglass-smooth finish if you spend the time on it. I use finewet/drysandpaper followed by rottenstone powder to rub-out thefinish untilthere are no glaring errors, but stop when I'm at a satinfinish ratherthan a gloss finish. Just a matter of taste.Hope this helps, Brian from jkallo@midwest.net Thu Oct 22 15:55:49 1998 Subject: First Rod Hello all,I just wanted to share my joy at the beginning of the end of my lastfewsteps with my first rod. While the list was down I finished planing andglued the rod up using Probond poly-u glue per the advise of Sir D. Thegluing went well, though I don't remember having been morenervous/excitedin some time. No wait, there was a problem. I didn't listen to Darryl'swarning to use gloves while using Probond. I have no worries about thestrength of my rod--I have never met an adhesive like this stuff. I am justgetting able to pull little shreds of the stuff from between my fingerstoday, a full 72 hours after I glued.Anyway, I just finished sanding off the glue residue (the waxeddentalfloss pulled up easily leaving only glue behind--easily sanded with 320grit), and rubbing in a coat of Formby's high-gloss tung-blend. I amastounded. Though it has its flaws, the rod really surpassed myexpectations. If I had components sitting in my shop I'd not sleep tonightand would rush to the lake in the morning to try it out. As it happens,things moved quicker than I though they would and I'll have to wait untilMonday for ferrules (the rest of the stuff comes tommorrow). My goal is tohave it finished by Holloween for a weekend of fishing the White down inArkansas. I though it would be kinda prosaic being that at the first ofthis month I was at SRG learning how to split the cane which is sittingoutin the sun with a drying coat of tung oil while looking a whole hell of alot more like a fishing rod.I couldn't have done this without the list (most particularly RichardTyree as those at SRG know). I thank you all and look forward to talking asI get underway with #2 (after a bit of a break, of course). If by greatluck anyone else is planning on fishing the White at the end of the month,I'll look forward to your opinions on the stick (though you can hold ontothe ones concerning my spastic flame-job). Thanks again, all. Best, Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from dhaftel@att.com Thu Oct 22 15:58:34 1998 sender att.com!dhaftel (att.com!dhaftel); Thu Oct 22 15:55 EDT 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) (5.5.2232.9) Subject: RE: glue / adhesive poll ? A.J., Is that because of the open time? I'm a beginner too. The reason I choseEpon was because it seemed to have a good working time and didn't needanyspecial treatment like heating, etc. Also, It is supposed to be non- heatsoluble (the dreaded delamination thing) and I didn't want the purplegluelines everyone was talking about. Am I missing out on something by not using resorcinol? TIA, Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: A.J.Thramer [SMTP:thramer@presys.com]Sent: Thursday, October 22, 1998 3:57 PM Subject: Re: glue / adhesive poll ? Rodsofcane@aol.com wrote: Once again it is poll time! I am trying to find out what most of you useasfar as glue to put together ? I am getting close to putting my first rodtogether and of course want to use the best. Also something that has agoodshelve life ! Thanx,Kent K. AndersonI always reccomend that a beginner without the hands on help of arodbuilder start with rescorcinol.A.J.Thramer from bdcreek@grand-rapids.crosswinds.net Thu Oct 22 16:27:43 1998 (envelope- from bdcreek@grand-rapids.crosswinds.net) Subject: Re: glue / adhesive poll ? I used resorcinol on my first rod and I love it. Don't notice the gluelines, but love may be myopic. Guys at Custom Pak Adhesives told me howto heat set the glue, and that may be a good place to call for generalquestions. They are on Jerry's rodmakers page under supplies, I think. Brian from bobbo@buffnet.net Thu Oct 22 16:32:27 1998 bybuffnet4.buffnet.net (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA28445 for via smap(V2.0) Subject: Re: Hook-keeper rings I agrre with Harry on his recommendations (Harvey and Borger substitute).However, I have found that although the braideddry fly leaders cast well,theytend to spray water and scare fish. I have tried these and do not use themanymore because of this. However, the Airflo intermediate tips are greatforswinging wet flies! I have the formulae on my site.Good luck,Bob At 10:40 AM 10/22/98 -0500, you wrote:john channer wrote: I use the ones on my rods to get from one pool to the next, or from thetruckto theriver. >>snipped*****That's precisely where I am the most clumsy and don't dare allowtheline-leader connection to get inside the tip-top! *****>>snippedHarry, do you tie your own leaders, or add on to store bought ones?snippedJohn, I like the George Harvey dry-fly formula's, even for dead-driftnymphfishing. And lately I've been experimenting with Gary Borger's "recipe's"in"Presentation." To be honest, though, I'm not sure I'm going to likeBorger's but Ihaven't evaluated them thoroughly enough to come to a conclusion. LatelyI'veseen quite a few guys using the braided butts with long fine tippets. Probablyokay for dries, but I hate tying a yarn indicator (YES, I do use them!) in abraided butt.What I'm fascinated by are the "furled" leaders Darrel (sp?) Martintalksabout in "Micropatterns". Any ideas out there?HarryPS - the obligatory rodbuilding note is at the top! -----------------------------Bob Maulucci218 Wallace Ave.Buffalo, New York 14216716-836-8297http://www.buffnet.net/~bobbo/welcome.htm "Establish a better reputation for honesty in your home community; thenyou wonthave to bring in dead fish to prove that your not a liar." - Kenneth Reid from bdcreek@grand-rapids.crosswinds.net Thu Oct 22 16:33:12 1998 (envelope- from bdcreek@grand-rapids.crosswinds.net) Subject: Granger "Silver Special" All - Had a tackle collector friend call me and ask if I knew the value ofa Granger Silver Special. I've never heard of the rod, or seen onelisted. Heard of Specials, and Denver Specials, but not Silver Specials. Anyone have any info? Brian from WDHCJL@aol.com Thu Oct 22 16:37:53 1998 Subject: Re: moisture in blank Leave in your oven at about 100 or 110 for a few days. from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Oct 22 17:02:07 1998 via smap(4.1) Subject: RE: Granger "Silver" Special Brian, I've not ever heard or read of this model either. On the old Specials of the blonde cane variety the model name was on the slide band reelseat rather than the cane. Maybe it is worn enough that the "Denver" looks like "Silver". I'm not insinuating that your friend needs glasses, just an idea though. Or perhaps it's a 25 year anniversary special. At any rate it probably isn't worth anything so if your friend needs to dispose of it just have him send it to me and I'll take care of that for him. I bet if a listmember has that book on Colorado rodmakers there would be somethingin there on it if indeed it is a "Silver" Special. My personal favorite name butchering is with the Horrocks-Ibbotsen rods. When people try to interpret that name from a worn label and relay it to others, it's amazing what they think they are seeing. Let us know if you find anything out on it. I'm interested in knowing. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Thu Oct 22 18:10:21 1998 18:09:45 ix15.ix.netcom.comvia smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: glue / adhesive poll ? Hi Kent. I do nodeless and use Titebond II for splices and Shell Epon forthe strips. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 06:01 AM 10/21/98 EDT, you wrote:Once again it is poll time! I am trying to find out what most of you use asfar as glue to put together ? I am getting close to putting my first rodtogether and of course want to use the best. Also something that has agoodshelve life ! Thanx,Kent K. Anderson from saltwein@swbell.net Thu Oct 22 18:17:18 1998 gw2adm.rcsntx.swbell.net SAA07548 Subject: Sport King Anyone heard of a rod by this name. A local flyshop hangs old rods onthe wall. They just put up a Leonard that I am going to mic and alsothis 7' Sport King. Not a bad looking rod. Wiggling seems to indicateflex into the handle. Any info appreciated. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Thu Oct 22 18:25:50 1998 18:25:12 ix15.ix.netcom.comvia smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: flaming Hi Steve. I don't flame mine that much. I use a really hot flame and moveit pretty quickly along the cane. When I do it perfectly, just the verysurface is charred. I don't get into the fibers. I try to err on theundercooked side and make it up when I heat treat after binding. Hope thishelps. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 11:08 PM 10/21/98 -0600, you wrote:My question is for you cane flamers.How dark do you make it?I did one according to Wayne's directions, actually blistered the enamel,but the charring went pretty deep. I had to remove a lot of outside layersto get down to sound fibers. The rod color is a dark "tortoise shell". Thetaper is a Cattanach 7 1/2' 4-wt that prefers a WF5. The strips had to becarefully handled because the edges were brittle. Glued up fine and looksgreat.Any comments on flaming depth and/or color?Steve from dr_matro@cyberramp.net Thu Oct 22 18:27:36 1998 ESMTP idSAA13661 Subject: Re: Hook-keeper rings Ratchet Never made a rod with one; never used one on a rod I bought. Somethingabout crimps in my fly line. Got this from an old steelhead guide formOregon. And you're right. So does Winston, so does Payne and, so does Powell. Sodo a lot of the current makers. What have you got against our finefriends in Manchester. Ken Cole from jkallo@midwest.net Thu Oct 22 18:28:04 1998 Subject: Re: Sport King Hey Steve,I've seen a few up for auction on the Ebay online auction. I believetheywere made for Montgomery Ward by Montague. I've never held one, but theyseem to sell for a bit less than other production class cane rod similarlyadorned. I did see what must have been one of their nicer models a fewweeks back. It looked good anyway. Joe At 06:19 PM 10/22/98 -0700, you wrote:Anyone heard of a rod by this name. A local flyshop hangs old rods onthe wall. They just put up a Leonard that I am going to mic and alsothis 7' Sport King. Not a bad looking rod. Wiggling seems to indicateflex into the handle. Any info appreciated. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from ljrp@penn.com Thu Oct 22 18:30:48 1998 Subject: Re: Sport King Could ba a Wards possibly by H&I sold for 11.00 new in the 50's not a badrod but not a quality one either Steve wrote: Anyone heard of a rod by this name. A local flyshop hangs old rods onthe wall. They just put up a Leonard that I am going to mic and alsothis 7' Sport King. Not a bad looking rod. Wiggling seems to indicateflex into the handle. Any info appreciated. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from rclarke@eou.edu Thu Oct 22 18:34:13 1998 Subject: Re: glue (Resorcinol) Brian, could you give me a hint as to how to heat set Resorcinol? I wasunder the impression that you can't heat set it. Thanks, Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------SNIPGuys at Custom Pak Adhesives told me howto heat set the glue, SNIP from chris@artistree.com Thu Oct 22 18:44:44 1998 Subject: Re: Golden Trout I'm posting a quote from "Sierra Trout Guide" by Ralph Cutter. Please don'ttake this a contradictory flame John just some comments from a man whohas donea lot of research on Sierra Trout. "Goldens originally inhabited only rivers and streams. With the advent oftransplants, goldens now inhabit every imaginable water type in theSierras.Due to man's somewhat warped notion of the golden as a timberline trout,thefish has been planted almost exclusively in the high, stark, alpine lakesandrivers. Contrary to popular myth, some golden trout are natives of watersthatsometimes reach upwards of seventy degrees and are far removed fromthe cold,clear reaches of the highest Sierras." Goes on to talk about how Goldens are very gullible and vulnerable to theangler's hook in streams but are very wary and hard to catch in lakes. Alsostates that the only other true "native" Sierra fish is the Cutthroat whichmigrated down from the Columbia river through prehistoric waterways. I have also found his "Sierra Nevada Insect Emergence Tables" (included inthebook) to be a valuable help. I find that kind of interesting since his familyinvented Mosquito repellent while fishing the Sierras, anyone heard of"CutterBug Repellent?" Also invented the "Cutter Snake Bite Kit" while fishingtheKern.--Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com JOHN MOODY wrote: I am pretty late into this having been away from my computer for a fewdays.Golden Trout originated in the Kern River system in the SierraNevada.Subsequently it was propagated by some hatcheries and found itswayto other Western states.It does however only survive in cold highaltitudemountain lakes and streams.The fish can look like a freak with shades ofcrimson,green,yellow and black.It retains a heavy black spotted tail andarow ofleftover parr markings that disappear from other trout.Goldensthathave been raised at low altitudes grow to a more normal silvery-bluecolour.The record for a Golden is 11lbs taken from Cooks Lake,Wyomingin1948.Hope this helps. from rclarke@eou.edu Thu Oct 22 19:05:56 1998 Subject: Re: Golden Trout Way off of rodmaking, but I spent several days in Colorado looking forgoldens in a high mountain lake. A friend and I hiked up to 11,000 footelevation, six miles in and camped out on one of three lakes we were toldhad goldens in it. We fished the two that looked like they would supportfish ( they had streams coming out and we caught some really nice cutthroat on one of the streams). Anyway, no goldens, was awaken in themiddle of the night by what may have been a bear, and we wore our selvesout by the hike. When we returned to town, my friend asked the source andwas told the third lake (the one we did not fish) was the one with goldensin it. We have not had the umph to go back there yet. Maybe someday. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu from emiller257@dataflo.net Thu Oct 22 19:09:00 1998 wddataflo.dataflo.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA11021 for Subject: Re: titebond ll Tony Young wrote: On Sat, 17 Oct 1998, Ed Miller wrote: A NUMBER OF RODMAKERS THAT ARE CURRENTLY MAKING NODELESS RODSUSETITEBOND II FOR THE SPLICES. DOES ANYONE CURRENTLY USE TITEBONDII ASTHEIR MAIN ADHESIVE? ANY COMMENTS ARE WELCOME. ED M. Ed,please stop yelling.A friend recently made his first rod nodeless (yes, it was a Sir D) withTitebond II and apart from one scarf that is lifting on the back splinein the butt the rod works fine. The lifting scarf may have been themakers fault not the glue as he made the butt first and may not haveeither scarfed properly, clamped correctly or may have allowed thesurface to be contaminated in some way. nodeless rods I use Shell Epon. It's messy, wasteful and all the thingsabout epoxy I don't like but I'll be watching my friend's rod carefulybefore I use it for scarfs. TBII seems to impart a different action alsowhen it's used to glue the splines. I guess it's *slightly* more limber. Tony /***********************************************************************/> TonyYounghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/Tony, sorry about the post in caps, purely unintentional, and thanks rod that I'm doing now, most likely resorcinal. Thanks, Ed M. from bdcreek@grand-rapids.crosswinds.net Thu Oct 22 19:13:43 1998 (envelope- from bdcreek@grand-rapids.crosswinds.net) Subject: Re: glue (Resorcinol) Robert, Again, a call to custom pak would be more helpful, but they gave mea sliding scale of something like 3 minutes at 300 degrees to 9 or 10 at150. I cranked my oven to nearly 200 degrees, unplugged it, put thebound, glued sections in it, and went to bed. After work the next day Itook them out (Look out! The smell of baking resorcinol is heinous andprobably dangerous.) The glue was significantly darkened and ready tobe sanded off of the rod. The binding thread came off without muchtrouble, and I've caught several 18" - 22" trout on this in big rivers,so the glue joints are good. I've given it some fishing sets from abovementioned fish, and they came out nicely with only moderate heat. IfDickerson deserves half of his reputation, and resorcinol was goodenough for him, I don't think I'm going to spend anymore time looking But again, best call custom pak or ask John Z. He told me who totalk to at the glue shop. Best of luck, Brian from lblan@provide.net Thu Oct 22 19:17:22 1998 Subject: RE: flaming Steve; no comments on depth or color but do remember that Wayne uses averyhot torch to flame. He doesn't have to leave the torch on a spot for long toblister the enamel. -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu WeissSent: Thursday, October 22, 1998 9:50 AM Subject: Re: flaming My question is for you cane flamers.How dark do you make it?I did one according to Wayne's directions, actually blistered the enamel,but the charring went pretty deep. I had to remove a lot of outside layersto get down to sound fibers. The rod color is a dark "tortoise shell". Thetaper is a Cattanach 7 1/2' 4-wt that prefers a WF5. The strips had to becarefully handled because the edges were brittle. Glued up fine and looksgreat.Any comments on flaming depth and/or color?Steve from lblan@provide.net Thu Oct 22 19:17:29 1998 Subject: RE: New Member Fritz; welcome to the list This tape will never work, it must be precisely .0042345334543 to work.:) Seriously, it has a few things going for it.... 1) You have it2) It's about right3) You have it -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 1998 9:29 AM Subject: New Member Have been making rug beaters for many years but now wish to plane myown.Looking in the archives noted that one person added metal tape to soleof plane. I do have self adhesive stainless(like used by auto shops) Itmikes .005. Would this be satisfactory clearance for that use? Thank you, Fritz Wiese from bdcreek@grand-rapids.crosswinds.net Thu Oct 22 19:19:12 1998 (envelope- from bdcreek@grand-rapids.crosswinds.net) Subject: Re: Hand-rubbed finishes Al - I know the following will brand me a heretic, but I finish withIvory dish soap and water on a moderately well rung out rag, rinsed witha rather wet rag, dry it immediately and let it dry overnight (usually24 hours by the time I get back to it) before doing anything else. Ifinish up with a coat or two of Briwax.I did this on fine furniture before I built a cane rod, and had no illeffects. I don't know another way to get rid of the haze and polishingdebris, though there probably is one. It's a fishing rod, it's goin' ta git wet. Get it over with andmove on. Brian from emiller257@dataflo.net Thu Oct 22 19:21:09 1998 wddataflo.dataflo.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA11568 for Subject: Re: titebond II Ralph W Moon wrote: I use Titebond II Extend. It adds a few minutes more working time.Ralph Ralph, do you use titebond for your main glue and how long haveyour rods held up so far? Thanks for the help. Ed from maxs@geocities.co.jp Thu Oct 22 19:22:35 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id JAA09847for; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:22:27 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Hook-keeper rings Hanzich, Al (MLPT) wrote: Hope my ignorance doesn't show too much with this question, I varnishrodswith a brush, several times I see "HAND RUBBED VARNISH"! Please helptounderstand how this is accomplished! Thanks. Al, There is an article of mine for a kind of rubbing varnish using Urushiin my web below under the title of Urushi Varnishing Procedure. It willgive some hint about hand rubbing. I also use brush. Brush varnishing becomes hard from second trial ofcoating since the surface is getting slippy. So I put two or three coat finishing varnish, for rattan furnitures etc.) and then as a final coat,I give a final brush coat using the same varnish with 40-50% thinned ona spinning motor. It wil create very smooth flat and equivalent shineson the surface with Polyurethane without bad effects of brush. If youwant to make semi- gloss shine, you can give a final coat with handrubbing using rag. Rubbing is easy and assured method to get smoothfinish using minimum amount of varnish. In this case, I wrap aftervarnish. Hope this help. Regards, Max-- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from maxs@geocities.co.jp Thu Oct 22 19:44:10 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id JAA24620for; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:42:55 +0900 (JST) Subject: Golden Trout Hello, Is there any picture posted of golden trout on someone's web page? Looking at the post on this subject, the nature is very likely to somenoble fish here, Yamato IWANA, it's naturally reproducing themselveshere. It has a white spot in dark color (dark olive, dark shiningpurple, sometimes in black) on the back and golden yellow below, livesin the highest part of a river. The golden yellow color will getstronger in winter. I have one picture as IWANA in my web under Fishesin Japan. Could you someone try to check it?If it happen to be a golden trout or similar, there are many in mycountry. Is it likely or not? Max-- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from dr_matro@cyberramp.net Thu Oct 22 20:12:45 1998 ESMTP idUAA11369 Subject: Re: flaming Evening, Steve Larry Blan said it. Wayne uses the hottest propane torch I've ever seen.He describes it as searing a rare steak as opposed to slow-cookingbarbeque. The run-of-the-mill homeowners torch is too cold for the job.I just flamed my second culm with the same results of the first, doneunder Wayne's watchful eye. It sounds like you nailed the color. though. Very dark caramel to lighttans. Torttoise shell. Go off-list and I'll spill names and numbers.That commercial thing, ya'know. Ken Cole from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Oct 22 20:21:47 1998 Subject: RE: glue / adhesive poll ? Dennis Actually Epon is a good first time glue since it is very forgivingin its use and has no real downside (negative) to it. Good choice of glue. Chris On Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:03:33 -0400, Haftel, Dennis Jay wrote: A.J., Is that because of the open time? I'm a beginner too. The reason I choseEpon was because it seemed to have a good working time and didn't needanyspecial treatment like heating, etc. Also, It is supposed to be non- heatsoluble (the dreaded delamination thing) and I didn't want the purplegluelines everyone was talking about. Am I missing out on something by not using resorcinol? TIA, Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: A.J.Thramer [SMTP:thramer@presys.com]Sent: Thursday, October 22, 1998 3:57 PM Subject: Re: glue / adhesive poll ? Rodsofcane@aol.com wrote: Once again it is poll time! I am trying to find out what most of you useasfar as glue to put together ? I am getting close to putting my first rodtogether and of course want to use the best. Also something that has agoodshelve life ! Thanx,Kent K. AndersonI always reccomend that a beginner without the hands on help of arodbuilder start with rescorcinol.A.J.Thramer from robert.kope@MCI2000.com Thu Oct 22 20:37:50 1998 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 01:37:18 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: glue / adhesive poll ? I agree with A.J. As a beginner, I chose resorcinol partly because of theglue lines. I wanted to see them as a critique of my work. Besides, it hasa long tradition, is readily available, relatively easy to use, inexpensive,durable, and I like the glue lines. I've glued up my first 2 blanks and ampleased with the results. -- Robert Kope -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: glue / adhesive poll ? A.J., Is that because of the open time? I'm a beginner too. The reason I choseEpon was because it seemed to have a good working time and didn't needanyspecial treatment like heating, etc. Also, It is supposed to be non- heatsoluble (the dreaded delamination thing) and I didn't want the purplegluelines everyone was talking about. Am I missing out on something by not using resorcinol? TIA, Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: A.J.Thramer [SMTP:thramer@presys.com]Sent: Thursday, October 22, 1998 3:57 PM Subject: Re: glue / adhesive poll ? Rodsofcane@aol.com wrote: Once again it is poll time! I am trying to find out what most of youuseasfar as glue to put together ? I am getting close to putting my firstrodtogether and of course want to use the best. Also something that has agoodshelve life ! Thanx,Kent K. AndersonI always reccomend that a beginner without the hands on help of arodbuilder start with rescorcinol.A.J.Thramer from thramer@presys.com Thu Oct 22 20:38:24 1998 0000 Subject: Re: glue / adhesive poll ? Brian Creek wrote: I used resorcinol on my first rod and I love it. Don't notice the gluelines, but love may be myopic. Guys at Custom Pak Adhesives told mehowto heat set the glue, and that may be a good place to call for generalquestions. They are on Jerry's rodmakers page under supplies, I think. BrianThe rescorcinol is easy to work with, slow to set up, reasonably thin,tolerant of errors, absolutely waterproof and needs only roomtemperature to cure. I still make runs of rods with rescorcinol insteadof my favored URAC every year. A.J.Thramer PS my experience with epoxy is nil as to gluing up splines and I like tokeep it that way from robert.kope@MCI2000.com Thu Oct 22 20:57:11 1998 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 01:56:31 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Golden Trout There have been a number of correct responses and some with someinaccuracies. Golden trout are a subspecies of rainbow trout thatoriginated in the Kern Basin of California. They are a very colorful fishthat has been described in other posts. Sir D put a picture of one on theBFR home page. I am not familiar with the "Palomino trout", but am familiar with albinorainbows which are golden in color and have pink eyes. I believe this ismost likely the fish that started this thread. Kokanee are not just landlocked salmon, but are a genetically distinct,resident (as opposed to anadromous) form of sockeye salmon. They haveapparently evolved independenly in many river systems. Genetically,kokaneeare more closely related to sockeye from the same river than they are tokokanee in other river systems, but they can be distinguished on the basisof either allozymes or DNA. At maturity they have a coloration similar tosockeye salmon (red body and greenish head), though generally they are notas bright as sockeye. There are far fewer carotinoids in the diet availablein freshwater than are available in the marine environment. Sockeye canbereared to maturity in freshwater and spawned successfully, but theycannotretain carotinoids as efficiently as kokanee and will not turn red, thoughthey will show traces of red pigmentation. Kokanee are only about 10 to14inches long at maturity while I've seen Koi over 20 lbs, so if a fish lookedlike a large Koi, I would doubt very much that it was a kokanee. However,Chitose Salmon Hatchery (Hokkaido) has a run of sockeye that they derived from the kokanee population in Lake Shikotsu, and they appear to look andact like normal sockeye after just a few generations. (Christian - ifyou're interested in seeing them, adults should be in both hatcheries rightnow.) -- Robert Kope-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Golden Trout In a message dated 10/20/98 6:20:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time,FISHWOOL@aol.comwrites: These are palomino trout originating in W. Va. The true golden troutareout west in the Sierra mtns.Hank. >> When fishing the Box Canyon section of the Henry's Fork last month, I sawanorange fish in the water. It looked just like a large Koi. (SP? - orientalgoldfish) I asked the guide what the heck it was and he said it was a Konnee (SP ??again) salmon - and quite rare to see one in that section of the river too. Don Burns from flyrod6@juno.com Thu Oct 22 21:14:41 1998 22:14:11 EDT Subject: Re: glue / adhesive poll ? Kent See Waynes book. I used what he recommended and have had no problems. He uses Nyatex epoxy. Mark Hallowell On Wed, 21 Oct 1998 06:01:30 EDT Rodsofcane@aol.com writes:Once again it is poll time! I am trying to find out what most of you use asfar as glue to put together ? I am getting close to putting my first rodtogether and of course want to use the best. Also something that has a goodshelve life ! Thanx,Kent K. Anderson ___________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno athttp://www.juno.com/getjuno.htmlor call Juno at (800) 654- JUNO [654-5866] from flyrod6@juno.com Thu Oct 22 21:15:02 1998 22:14:11 EDT Subject: Re: flaming Steve, I made a rod with Wayne and flamed it. It is very dark and did blister. You want to stay about 6" away and try to darken it evenly. The evenlypart is the hard part. It took a little practice. Mark Hallowell On Wed, 21 Oct 1998 23:08:19 -0600 "Dr. Steven A. Weiss"writes:My question is for you cane flamers.How dark do you make it?I did one according to Wayne's directions, actually blistered the enamel,but the charring went pretty deep. I had to remove a lot of outside layersto get down to sound fibers. The rod color is a dark "tortoise shell". Thetaper is a Cattanach 7 1/2' 4-wt that prefers a WF5. The strips had to becarefully handled because the edges were brittle. Glued up fine and looksgreat.Any comments on flaming depth and/or color?Steve ___________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno athttp://www.juno.com/getjuno.htmlor call Juno at (800) 654- JUNO [654-5866] from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Oct 22 21:23:52 1998 Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:22:51 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: titebond ll rod that I'm doing now, most likely resorcinal. Thanks, Ed M. Ed,you may find resorcinol a bit tricky for the scarfs. If the bond is right you wont have problems but resorcinol requires fairly good tight joints to work properly which means you need very good clamping of the scarfs. I'd suggest binding the scarfs rather than use spring clams for this reason. As far as using resorcinol for gluing the splines, resorcinol is the glue of first choice IMHO unless you object to the glue line but then again if the planing is accurate you'll hardly see a thing. Tony from robert.kope@MCI2000.com Thu Oct 22 21:30:12 1998 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 02:29:40 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Golden Trout Max I'm sorry, that last response slipped out before I meant it to. DarrylHayashida's pictures of golden trout are posted in the photo gallery of thebamboo fly rod magazines web page (www.thebambooflyrod.com). I can't seem to load the pictures from your web page, but from yourdescription it sounds like you may be referring to what we callwhite-spotted charr. I don't know the Japanese name for these, but theyarevery beautiful fish. -- Robert Kope-----Original Message----- Subject: Golden Trout Hello, Is there any picture posted of golden trout on someone's web page?Looking at the post on this subject, the nature is very likely to somenoble fish here, Yamato IWANA, it's naturally reproducing themselveshere. It has a white spot in dark color (dark olive, dark shiningpurple, sometimes in black) on the back and golden yellow below, livesin the highest part of a river. The golden yellow color will getstronger in winter. I have one picture as IWANA in my web under Fishesin Japan. Could you someone try to check it?If it happen to be a golden trout or similar, there are many in mycountry.Is it likely or not? Max--Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Oct 22 21:34:41 1998 Subject: Re: moisture in blank Max,Try a week @ 100 degrees F.(37 deg. C?) in your oven. It worked for meona 6 year old rod that i'd tung oiled and had picked up moisture. It's nowbackto its original speed-I've also dip varnished it this time.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Oct 22 21:39:02 1998 Subject: Re: flaming Steve,I flame most of my rods. I do each unplaned strip at a time using astandard nozzle on a propane torch. I achieve the darkness I want byvaryingthe speed of the torch over the strip. I also start in the middle and worktoward each end.Hope this helps,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Oct 22 21:41:21 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Hook-keeper rings Nurse Ratchet,Orvis ain't the only one making rods with hook keepers :-). Actually, Iusually wrap my leader around the reel and hook the fly in the 1st snakeguideabove the stripper, but I find most of my buyers want hook keepers.Stay cool,Hank. from KDLoup@aol.com Thu Oct 22 21:45:27 1998 Subject: Re: Para 15 taper... Rick,Did you cast my Para 15 at the SRG? It's definitely a 7WF. I tried aDT6 and a 6WF on it and thought the rod was mediocre. The 7wt. linemakes abig difference in the way the rod loads and shoots line. If you are looking flies (no trout in Louisiana), the Para 15 is the way to go. Oh, I made thedry fly tip. Kurt Loup from channer@hubwest.com Thu Oct 22 21:55:25 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A06429C50132; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 20:56:36 MDT Subject: Re: New Member At 09:28 AM 10/21/98 -0400, you wrote:Have been making rug beaters for many years but now wish to plane myown.Looking in the archives noted that one person added metal tape to soleof plane. I do have self adhesive stainless(like used by auto shops) Itmikes .005. Would this be satisfactory clearance for that use? Thank you, Fritz Wiese Fritz;That was me. .005 is fine, that is what the tape I have measures.When youare planing, inspect the bottom of your plane frequently, if the tape ballsup it will make the "groove" deeper, not a disaster, but will need moreplaning. I left a 3/4" opening down the middle and used the tape on eitherside. This worked o.k., but I have since used a strip of sandpaper to sanda groove in the plane, it works better and I don't have to look at thebottom of the plane every few strokes. John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Thu Oct 22 21:55:40 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A07318C000EE; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 20:56:51 MDT Subject: Re: Hook-keeper rings At 10:40 AM 10/22/98 -0500, you wrote:john channer wrote: I use the ones on my rods to get from one pool to the next, or from thetruckto theriver. >>snipped*****That's precisely where I am the most clumsy and don't dare allowtheline-leader connection to get inside the tip-top! *****>>snippedHarry, do you tie your own leaders, or add on to store bought ones?snippedJohn, I like the George Harvey dry-fly formula's, even for dead-driftnymphfishing. And lately I've been experimenting with Gary Borger's "recipe's"in"Presentation." To be honest, though, I'm not sure I'm going to likeBorger's but Ihaven't evaluated them thoroughly enough to come to a conclusion. LatelyI'veseen quite a few guys using the braided butts with long fine tippets.Probablyokay for dries, but I hate tying a yarn indicator (YES, I do use them!) in abraided butt.What I'm fascinated by are the "furled" leaders Darrel (sp?) Martintalksabout in "Micropatterns". Any ideas out there?HarryPS - the obligatory rodbuilding note is at the top! Harry;What book can I find George Harvey's ;eader formula's in? I have a braidedbutt leader somewhere in my vest, I didn't like it at all when I bought ita couple of years ago. I will have to dig it out and give it another try. Ithink I saw an article in one of the mainstream FFmagazines about furledleaders a year or so ago, if I bump into it I will send it to you. John from channer@hubwest.com Thu Oct 22 21:55:51 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A07F18C100EE; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 20:57:03 MDT Subject: Re: glue / adhesive poll ? At 06:01 AM 10/21/98 EDT, you wrote:Once again it is poll time! I am trying to find out what most of you use asfar as glue to put together ? I am getting close to putting my first rodtogether and of course want to use the best. Also something that has agoodshelve life ! Thanx,Kent K. Anderson Kent;I have to cast my vote for Shell Epon epoxy. I tried Urac 185 on severalrods, but it sets up too fast for me to get the sections straight and itonly has a shelf life of one year. Epon has an open time of hours and BillFink says it keeps for years.John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Thu Oct 22 21:56:02 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A08A18C200EE; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 20:57:14 MDT Subject: Re: Heat Guns At 03:59 AM 10/21/98 -0700, you wrote: Dear Brian A recent convert to heat guns, I got a similar Milwaukee (and if you don'tthink the World is going to hell in a Renault Dauphin... Milwaukee of allpeople... made in China... grumble grumble) and in fact, I think it'smaybe the same thing. I just cobbled a wide spreader and muffler-taped iton to a tight-fitting collar. Works fine. Davy;This has nothing to do with rodmaking and I have no affiliation with thecompany, but Milwaukee heat guns are not made by the Milwaukee PowerToolcompany, somebody else with the same name. If MPT Co. made it, youwouldn'tbe able to use it on cane, it would vaporize instantly. BTW, all realMilwaukee tools have red plastic parts, I have one of the heat guns you aretalking about and it is black plastic, rather cheap feel to it and costabout $25. It works,just. JOhn Channer from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Thu Oct 22 22:04:17 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Thu,22Oct 1998 23:13:04 -0400 Subject: Plane Blade Angles I am curious what you all think are the most common sharpening angles for a 9 1/2 and a 60 block plane? I use 30* and a little above that. Maybe 33* for a 9 1/2, but I have never used a 60 block plane. I am asking because a math gifted friend of mine is working on an article with me for making a jig to use with the Veritas honing guide. We are publishing the math involved so it might as well be what people find useful. Take care,Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from sshorb@ozip.net Thu Oct 22 22:18:11 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-55785U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:18:46 -0500 Subject: Re: glue / adhesive poll ? All; I looked at a web page that indicates there are a number of differenttypes of Epon and hardeners, which ones are commonly used on cane? Skip from rmoon@ida.net Thu Oct 22 23:09:43 1998 Subject: Re: titebond II Ed Miller asked:Ralph, do you use titebond for your main glue and how long haveyourrods held up so far? Thanks for the help. Ed I have used Titebond II for about 5 years. The Titbond II Extend hasonly been out a couple of years. The only dlaminations I have ever seenon any of my rods in the 20 plus years of rodbuilding were With Urac.Two rods delaminated in less than 5 casts each. Serious dlaminations.I agree that resorcinaol is the best rod adhesive I know of, and Ialways use it on my flamed rods. I use TBII extend on my bland rods. Ihave never had a problem with either. Ralph from robert.kope@MCI2000.com Thu Oct 22 23:19:15 1998 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 04:18:43 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Plane Blade Angles After some experimenting, I'm using 45 degrees on a 9 1/2 for finishing,andthe same angle on a 60 1/2 for rough planing. This gives an angle ofattackof 57 degrees for rough planing and 66 degrees for final planing. Bothplanes are Stanleys, and I prefer the smaller size of the Stanley 60 1/2. -- Robert Kope -----Original Message----- Subject: Plane Blade Angles I am curious what you all think are the most common sharpeningangles for a 9 1/2 and a 60 block plane? I use 30* and a littleabove that. Maybe 33* for a 9 1/2, but I have never used a 60 blockplane. I am asking because a math gifted friend of mine is workingon an article with me for making a jig to use with the Veritas honingguide. We are publishing the math involved so it might as well bewhat people find useful. Take care,Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277- 4510http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from saweiss@flash.net Thu Oct 22 23:28:33 1998 Subject: Re: flaming Steve,I flame most of my rods. I do each unplaned strip at a time using astandard nozzle on a propane torch. I achieve the darkness I want byvaryingthe speed of the torch over the strip. I also start in the middle and worktoward each end.Hope this helps,Hank. Hank,Do you press the nodes before or after flaming? How do you deal withremoving the charred layers? I removed the charcoal before planing so Ihadsound fibers at the surface.Steve from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Oct 22 23:36:50 1998 Fri, 23 Oct 1998 12:36:13 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Hook-keeper rings Harry;What book can I find George Harvey's ;eader formula's in? I have abraidedbutt leader somewhere in my vest, I didn't like it at all when I bought ita couple of years ago. I will have to dig it out and give it another try. Ithink I saw an article in one of the mainstream FFmagazines about furledleaders a year or so ago, if I bump into it I will send it to you. JohnThe only problem I've found with braided leaders is they "zip" off the surface when you lift the line. Apart from that I like them. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from chris@artistree.com Fri Oct 23 00:02:19 1998 WAA24521 Subject: Re: glue / adhesive poll ? O.K.......I'll bite. It's been proven that it can get up to 245 degrees insideof a car. Can the Epon or other types of epoxy used in building rods handlethiskind of temperature?--Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com Chris Bogart wrote: Dennis Actually Epon is a good first time glue since it is very forgivingin its use and has no real downside (negative) to it. Good choice ofglue. Chris from GLohkamp@aol.com Fri Oct 23 00:04:11 1998 Subject: Re: glue / adhesive poll ? Another vote for Urac 185..... 50 rods and no problems . Gary Lohkamp from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri Oct 23 00:14:54 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: moisture in blank Fine Woodworking magazine had an article on it awhile back (wish I couldtell you which issue). Basically, it is varnishing as you normally do, andusing a felt pad, oil, and rottenstone to rub out the finish. The oil isused just like in honing, to float away the particles. You'd probably wantto wear a dust mask when handling the dry rottenstone...it is about liketalc and very easy to inhale...also very messy (wet or dry). George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: moisture in blank Can anyone advise me how to properly perform "HAND RUBBED Varnishing". Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, October 22, 1998 11:41 AM Subject: Re: moisture in blank Max - You should be able to dry the strips quickly withheat. If your climateis always humid, it would be worthwhile to build a drystorage box. This issimply a box that is heated with a light bulb. One builder Iknow cut anaccess door into a heating duct in his house and dries outstrips that way. Ineither case, a few days drying should be effective.You might also try a short, low temperature ( about 200*F)treatment in yourheat treating oven. Weigh the strips carefully and stop thetreatment whenthey stop losing weight. from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Fri Oct 23 04:05:48 1998 ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 22:05:16 +1300 Subject: RE: moisture in blank At 01:02 PM 22/10/98 -0400, you wrote:Can anyone advise me how to properly perform "HAND RUBBED Varnishing". Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, October 22, 1998 11:41 AM Subject: Re: moisture in blank Max - You should be able to dry the strips quickly withheat. If your climateis always humid, it would be worthwhile to build a drystorage box. This issimply a box that is heated with a light bulb. One builder Iknow cut anaccess door into a heating duct in his house and dries outstrips that way. Ineither case, a few days drying should be effective. You might also try a short, low temperature ( about 200*F)treatment in yourheat treating oven. Weigh the strips carefully and stop thetreatment whenthey stop losing weight. Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Fri Oct 23 04:57:35 1998 ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 22:57:23 +1300 Subject: RE: moisture in blank Max, I bought an old freestanding wardrobe from a junk shop for not a lot ofdollars and have it in the corner of the garage with a light bulb in an oldlamp stand , about 100w in the bottom. It seems to keep distinctlywarmerthen the outside air allthough it is not very scientific. I have a series of spring clothes pegs tied to the hanging rail and keep anyrods or bamboo which I am working with from the time I split the culmhanging in this "heat box". I also have two boards with clear plastic 3/4 inch tubes taped to themhanging on hooks on the back of the wardrobe for varnishing using thedraining method mentioned some time ago .Keeping the door closed keepsthedust out . It is not terribly scientific , and I keep forgetting to measure thetemperature in the wardrobe , but it does seem to keep the rods dry . Itmay not work as well in a climate which has high humidity . regards Iank At 01:02 PM 22/10/98 -0400, you wrote:Can anyone advise me how to properly perform "HAND RUBBED Varnishing". Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, October 22, 1998 11:41 AM Subject: Re: moisture in blank Max - You should be able to dry the strips quickly withheat. If your climateis always humid, it would be worthwhile to build a drystorage box. This issimply a box that is heated with a light bulb. One builder Iknow cut anaccess door into a heating duct in his house and dries outstrips that way. Ineither case, a few days drying should be effective. You might also try a short, low temperature ( about 200*F)treatment in yourheat treating oven. Weigh the strips carefully and stop thetreatment whenthey stop losing weight. Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Fri Oct 23 04:57:46 1998 ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 22:57:20 +1300 Subject: Re: glue (Resorcinol) Brian , Robert, We use a lot of Resorcinol glue in the business of building laminatedbeams to temperature for setting to full strength . In winter we use large heatpacks to set the glue over night , in summer we have a misting system tolower the temperature so the glue does not go off before the beams aregluedup . It is my understanding that heat is not necessary for the hardening of theglue but that ambiant temperature will affect the time it takes the gluetoobtain full strength. . I have seen a schedule of the time required forresorcinol to obtain full strength at different temperatures and can getthat from work next week if anyone is interested. regards IankAt 04:32 PM 22/10/98 -0700, you wrote:Brian, could you give me a hint as to how to heat set Resorcinol? I wasunder the impression that you can't heat set it. Thanks, Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------SNIPGuys at Custom Pak Adhesives told me howto heat set the glue, SNIP Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz from emiller257@dataflo.net Fri Oct 23 06:51:07 1998 wddataflo.dataflo.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA13309 for Subject: Re: Plane Blade Angles Jon Lintvet wrote: I am curious what you all think are the most common sharpeningangles for a 9 1/2 and a 60 block plane? I use 30* and a littleabove that. Maybe 33* for a 9 1/2, but I have never used a 60 blockplane. I am asking because a math gifted friend of mine is workingon an article with me for making a jig to use with the Veritas honingguide. We are publishing the math involved so it might as well bewhat people find useful. Take care,Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277- 4510http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ Jon,I'musing 45 degrees for the Record 9-1/2 and it works very well on nodes. Ed M. from RMargiotta@aol.com Fri Oct 23 07:32:38 1998 Subject: Re: Hand-rubbed finishes Al: You should probably clean the shaft with mineral spirits or naptha(preferablynaptha -- it's a better cleaner for oils) and a lint free cloth like painter'sclothes or good cheesecloth. That should get rid of the haze but if youstopat rottenstone you'll have a "satin" finish, which some prefer. If you wantgloss, you need to rub again with some automotive polishing compound. --Rich from Canerods@aol.com Fri Oct 23 08:01:52 1998 Subject: Re: Golden Trout In a message dated 10/22/98 9:31:23 AM Pacific Daylight Time,rmoon@ida.netwrites: Ralph and Phil; Thanks for the spelling correction - I've been to busy to even dig out thereference books to look for the correct spelling. The Kokanee was brightorange - not golden. If anyone needs a guide when in the Yellowstone area - ask for JohnCollins - he's a cane rod owner too. I wish I had time to write more cane related stuff, but I haven't had timetodo much more than a quickie splintered node glue/overwrap in the last 2months. The need to pay the bills has eaten up all of my waking hours oflate. Don Burns from ballard@zen.wes.army.mil Fri Oct 23 09:02:19 1998 Subject: RE: glue / adhesive poll ? Kent, I've been using Urac 185 for my rods and I like the way I can cleanup with a bucket of water. The down side of it is that it does set upquickly, and the rate of this is also dependent on the ambient temperatureof your workshop. The warmer your shop, the faster it sets. One other note I discovered about URAC 185, the shelf life isone year. The older the stuff gets, the faster it sets up.I'll probably still use the stuff because I'm a bit stubborn. -Jerry BallardVicksburg, MS from anglport@con2.com Fri Oct 23 09:30:42 1998 Subject: Re: titebond II Ralph,I know about "wet-fly" and "dry-fly" actions; how do your "bland" rodscast?Not too much zzzzip, I'd expect !Have a good one,Art I use TBII extend on my bland rods. Ralph from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Fri Oct 23 10:35:08 1998 0500 Subject: Re: First Rod Joe,Congratulations on your accomplishments! You will doubtlessly enjoythis rodmore than any other before or after. Wish I could join you at the WhiteRiver,butSWMBO has yanked my yard pass, if you know what I mean.One word of caution; don't get in too big a hurry with the final steps. Mostofwhat can bee seen from the outside comes after the blank is complete. Right orwrong, that's what most people see. But the critical work for making afishingpoleis done. from here on you're building a "fine angling implement worthy ofhighestpraise."You're absolutely right --this is what makes this list, and the fineeffortsofquality folks like RT, so worthwhile.I look forward to casting that rod, and a few more from your shop, atnextyear's gathering.Harry Joseph S.Kallo wrote: Hello all,I just wanted to share my joy... > ... I amastounded. Though it has its flaws, the rod really surpassed myexpectations. If I had components sitting in my shop I'd not sleep tonightand would rush to the lake in the morning to try it out. As it happens,things moved quicker than I though they would and I'll have to wait untilMonday for ferrules (the rest of the stuff comes tommorrow). My goal istohave it finished by Holloween for a weekend of fishing the White down inArkansas. I though it would be kinda prosaic being that at the first ofthis month I was at SRG learning how to split the cane which is sittingoutin the sun with a drying coat of tung oil while looking a whole hell of alot more like a fishing rod.I couldn't have done this without the list (most particularly RichardTyree as those at SRG know). I thank you all and look forward to talkingasI get underway with #2 (after a bit of a break, of course). If by greatluck anyone else is planning on fishing the White at the end of the month,I'll look forward to your opinions on the stick (though you can hold ontothe ones concerning my spastic flame-job). Thanks again, all. Best, Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Fri Oct 23 10:41:35 1998 0500 Subject: Re: Hook-keeper rings john channer wrote: Harry;What book can I find George Harvey's ;eader formula's in? > John, The George Harvey formula's I'm using are in one of Lefty Kreh's"LittleLibary" series, but they are pretty widely known. Keep you eyes open, andyou'llprobably run across them. I could be wrong but I think the Leader Makerprogram from Bruce Conner, on Jerry's page, uses the Harvey formula.If you don't run across them, let me know and I'll post privately whatyou'relooking for. For example, a 12 foot 5x or a 9 foot 6x leader. Otherwisethere'sa lot of little xx's and oo's to type in for a whole series of leaders.Hope this helps, from LambersonW@missouri.edu Fri Oct 23 11:04:48 1998 (5.5.2232.9) Subject: RE: glue / adhesive poll ? I have also used resorcinol and gotten along well with it.The glue lines are obvious where mistakes have been made during planing,butI don't find them objectionable otherwise. It has some desirable featuresincluding open time, etc. Bill Lamberson from fritzwiese@webtv.net Fri Oct 23 11:09:08 1998 mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP idJAA26710; 111.iap.bryant.webtv.net(8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id JAA27391; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:09:06 -0700 ETAsAhQayoWjUwYzTJOo6KDUIkEYEr9qQgIUMTaJPeC+5JGTPf3SsI0VecmsOIs= Subject: Polishing an Old Rod Getting back into it. Have an old 9ft Leonard, very blonde, red wraps,white agate stripper, english snake guides. Know its from the twenties,but have no idea what model it might be. Needed polishing so used thelists suggestion to use auto polishing compound.Found turtle wax polishing compound for clear coat finishes. Appears tobe much finer than regular white compound. Twenty minutes later itreally shines. Removes all the tiny scratch marks. from mdell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Fri Oct 23 11:43:50 1998 with ESMTP id KAA12458 Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:43:45 -0600 (mdell@localhost) with SMTP id KAA46808 Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:43:44 -0600 Subject: Re: George Harvey Leaders Was: Hook-keeper rings You can find a George Harvey leader in this article on VFS: http://www.flyshop.com/Tactics/01-97Leaders/index.html The formulas are also published in George Harvery's book (I can'trememberthe title) and Joe Humprhrey's book Trout Tactics. Michael MICHAEL DELL email: mdell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca http://www.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/trout from ljrp@penn.com Fri Oct 23 12:02:26 1998 Subject: Re: George Harvey Leaders Was: & New Book Soon to be published book on the life and adventures of George Harvey, heis80 plus years and a wonderful person; still ties the finest dry flies I haveever seen. Book is in soft cover and a limited edition, can't wait to getmine. PS his leaders are great!! Best Dick Fogel from Central Pa. Michael Dell wrote: You can find a George Harvey leader in this article on VFS: http://www.flyshop.com/Tactics/01-97Leaders/index.html The formulas are also published in George Harvery's book (I can'trememberthe title) and Joe Humprhrey's book Trout Tactics. Michael MICHAEL DELL email: mdell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca http://www.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/trout from FlyTyr@southshore.com Fri Oct 23 12:17:19 1998 (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA20021 for ;Fri, 23 Oct1998 11:18:34 -0500 Subject: Re: George Harvey Leaders Was: & New Book No finer words can be said for Mr. Harvey. I have traded flies with him andtiedat same shows with him. I have a shadow box with three of his fliescoming thatis in the mail now.Can't wait till I get them so I can display them to all.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Dick Fogel wrote: Soon to be published book on the life and adventures of George Harvey, heis80 plus years and a wonderful person; still ties the finest dry flies Ihaveever seen. Book is in soft cover and a limited edition, can't wait to getmine. PS his leaders are great!! Best Dick Fogel from Central Pa. Michael Dell wrote: You can find a George Harvey leader in this article on VFS: http://www.flyshop.com/Tactics/01-97Leaders/index.html The formulas are also published in George Harvery's book (I can'trememberthe title) and Joe Humprhrey's book Trout Tactics. Michael MICHAEL DELL email: mdell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca http://www.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/trout from Guysflys@aol.com Fri Oct 23 12:26:42 1998 Subject: Re: George Harvey Leaders Was: Hook-keeper rings In a message dated 10/23/98 12:49:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time,mdell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca writes: "Techniques of Trout Fishing and Fly Tying"ISBN 1-55821-068-7ISBN 1- 55821-074-1 (pbk) from ljrp@penn.com Fri Oct 23 12:39:47 1998 Subject: Re: George Harvey Leaders Was: Hook-keeper rings Book is " George Harvey: Memories Patterns and Tactics" I stated softcover it is hardcover and a limited edition no soft cover!! Will be outin two weeks Limited out in 3-4 weeks Guysflys@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 10/23/98 12:49:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time,mdell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca writes: "Techniques of Trout Fishing and Fly Tying"ISBN 1-55821-068-7ISBN 1- 55821-074-1 (pbk) from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Oct 23 12:41:09 1998 Subject: Re: Re: flaming Steve,I do the nodes and straightening first, then flame ,then restraighten ifneeded. I generally don't charcoal the cane enough to worry about gettingdownto intact fibers. I often heat treat after flaming, depending on my mood atthe time. Regards,Hank. from saweiss@flash.net Fri Oct 23 13:29:05 1998 Subject: Re: Re: flaming Steve,I do the nodes and straightening first, then flame ,then restraighten ifneeded. I generally don't charcoal the cane enough to worry about gettingdown to intact fibers. I often heat treat after flaming, depending on mymood at the time.Regards,Hank. Sounds like a logical progression Hank. Do you find that flaming raises thepreviously pressed nodes?Steve from walkermoody@email.msn.com Fri Oct 23 13:37:19 1998 (may beforged)) SMTPSVC;Fri, 23 Oct 1998 11:36:40 -0700 Subject: Re: Golden Trout Chris - many thanks .That sounds pretty authorative.My source was GameFishof North America by Silvio Calabi published in 1988.-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Golden Trout I'm posting a quote from "Sierra Trout Guide" by Ralph Cutter. Pleasedon'ttake this a contradictory flame John just some comments from a manwho hasdonea lot of research on Sierra Trout. "Goldens originally inhabited only rivers and streams. With the advent oftransplants, goldens now inhabit every imaginable water type in theSierras.Due to man's somewhat warped notion of the golden as a timberline trout,thefish has been planted almost exclusively in the high, stark, alpine lakesandrivers. Contrary to popular myth, some golden trout are natives of watersthatsometimes reach upwards of seventy degrees and are far removed fromthecold,clear reaches of the highest Sierras." Goes on to talk about how Goldens are very gullible and vulnerable to theangler's hook in streams but are very wary and hard to catch in lakes.Alsostates that the only other true "native" Sierra fish is the Cutthroat whichmigrated down from the Columbia river through prehistoric waterways. I have also found his "Sierra Nevada Insect Emergence Tables" (includedinthebook) to be a valuable help. I find that kind of interesting since hisfamilyinvented Mosquito repellent while fishing the Sierras, anyone heard of"CutterBug Repellent?" Also invented the "Cutter Snake Bite Kit" while fishingtheKern.--Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com JOHN MOODY wrote: I am pretty late into this having been away from my computer for a fewdays.Golden Trout originated in the Kern River system in the SierraNevada.Subsequently it was propagated by some hatcheries and founditswayto other Western states.It does however only survive in cold highaltitudemountain lakes and streams.The fish can look like a freak with shadesofcrimson,green,yellow and black.It retains a heavy black spotted tail andarow ofleftover parr markings that disappear from other trout.Goldensthathave been raised at low altitudes grow to a more normal silvery-bluecolour.The record for a Golden is 11lbs taken from Cooks Lake,Wyomingin1948.Hope this helps. from rmoon@ida.net Fri Oct 23 14:02:04 1998 Subject: Re: titebond II ArtThat is what you get without using the spell check. Actually "BlandRods" are a little wimpy.Ralph from rmoon@ida.net Fri Oct 23 14:06:11 1998 Subject: Re: Polishing an Old Rod Michael Sinclair suggests using Brownell's polishing compounds. I haveonly used rottenstone and automotive polishers. Anyone ever usedBrownell's? How does it compare?Ralph from rmoon@ida.net Fri Oct 23 14:10:04 1998 Subject: Re: flaming I do the nodes and straightening first, then flame ,then restraighten if needed. I generally don't charcoal the cane enough to worry aboutgettingdown to intact fibers. I often heat treat after flaming, depending on my mood at the time.Regards,Hank. Hank it sounds like you split before flaming. Everytime I have donethat I find that the edges get burned before I get the rind side thecolor I want. I always flame the entire culm. Am I different somehow?Ralph from pdcorlis@nidc.edu Fri Oct 23 14:36:12 1998 with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 12:36:52 -0700 Subject: Re: flaming OAA22389 Thank God "flaming" now refers to finishing a bamboo rod;>) Sorry for the Bandwidth!Phil from teekay35@interlynx.net Fri Oct 23 14:39:24 1998 Subject: Re: Plane Blade Angles After nearly 25 years of rod building I've come to the conclusion that asuper sharp, polished hock blade is more important than blade angle. Thereare five 9 1/2 planes with face angles ranging from 70 degrees tostandardand some angles in between, and two 60 1/2 planes sitting on my bench. Iuse the 60 1/2 for rough planing down to the last .015" approximately, andthe 9 1/2's for finish work. The "scarey sharp" sharpening system withdrypapers works good for me.----------From: robert.kope Subject: Re: Plane Blade AnglesDate: Friday, October 23, 1998 12:19 AM After some experimenting, I'm using 45 degrees on a 9 1/2 for finishing,andthe same angle on a 60 1/2 for rough planing. This gives an angle ofattackof 57 degrees for rough planing and 66 degrees for final planing. Bothplanes are Stanleys, and I prefer the smaller size of the Stanley 60 1/2. -- Robert Kope -----Original Message-----From: Jon Lintvet Date: Thursday, October 22, 1998 8:11 PMSubject: Plane Blade Angles I am curious what you all think are the most common sharpeningangles for a 9 1/2 and a 60 block plane? I use 30* and a littleabove that. Maybe 33* for a 9 1/2, but I have never used a 60 blockplane. I am asking because a math gifted friend of mine is workingon an article with me for making a jig to use with the Veritas honingguide. We are publishing the math involved so it might as well bewhat people find useful. Take care,Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277- 4510http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from jczimny@dol.net Fri Oct 23 15:24:04 1998 Subject: Re: Polishing an Old Rod Hello RalphBrownell's compares with Auto stuff. Most probably, the same stuff.John-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Polishing an Old Rod Michael Sinclair suggests using Brownell's polishing compounds. I haveonly used rottenstone and automotive polishers. Anyone ever usedBrownell's? How does it compare?Ralph from jczimny@dol.net Fri Oct 23 15:24:09 1998 Subject: Re: glue / adhesive poll ? Use less harderer and it won't set up so fast. Since the hardener is acatylist, the amount won't effect the polymerized glue in any way.John Z-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: glue / adhesive poll ? Kent, I've been using Urac 185 for my rods and I like the way I can cleanup with a bucket of water. The down side of it is that it does set upquickly, and the rate of this is also dependent on the ambienttemperatureof your workshop. The warmer your shop, the faster it sets. One other note I discovered about URAC 185, the shelf life isone year. The older the stuff gets, the faster it sets up.I'll probably still use the stuff because I'm a bit stubborn. -Jerry BallardVicksburg, MS from jczimny@dol.net Fri Oct 23 15:26:48 1998 Subject: Re: glue / adhesive poll ? Most Epon formulations fail at between 335 and 385. Failure is not theproblem in a hot car. But it will soften. The rod would most likely takesome kind of set. If you're looking for a formulation that won't soften inthe 245 F range, then Nyatex is your best bet.John Z-----Original Message-- --- Subject: Re: glue / adhesive poll ? O.K.......I'll bite. It's been proven that it can get up to 245 degreesinsideof a car. Can the Epon or other types of epoxy used in building rods handlethiskind of temperature?--Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com Chris Bogart wrote: Dennis Actually Epon is a good first time glue since it is veryforgivingin its use and has no real downside (negative) to it. Good choice ofglue. Chris from gwbarnes@gwi.net Fri Oct 23 15:34:54 1998 Subject: Re: Hook-keeper rings Jean Conelli wrote: Ken Cole wrote: sideof the rod, away from the casting plane, to permit wrapping the leaderaround the reel as I described? I don't think another wrap outside ofthe casting plane would afect the action, but I've never done it.> Something else to snag the fly line. My 2o. Ken Coleken,besides having the hookkeeper as "something else to snag the flyline",you JUST DON'T NEED IT, so why bother...(i also think it's cool NOT tohave one, 'cause orvis DOES...and i can't stand orvis. thanksjean aka nurse ratchet Now Jean, please don't knock orvis. It was their truly nasty attitude thatstartedme making cane rods, back in the early 70's. Something good even comes from thelikes of them. George from briansr@point-net.com Fri Oct 23 15:35:28 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Polishing an Old Rod Ralph your Rottenstone & auto compound, sounds good you can then sandtothe finish of your choise by using 1200 sandpaper( At this fine a grade allit does ,really ,ry is polish by melting the varnish which will fill in thescratches & minor imperfections, the more elbow grease , the glossier thefinish If you want it to "cut " into the finish a bit use it wet (worksgreat on a clear auto finish, too ).That being said I myself prefer a sparvarnish satin coat with no polishing .Has anyone tried a product called T88 epoxy .It's an aviation grade ofglue.Cheers brian S.----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Polishing an Old Rod Michael Sinclair suggests using Brownell's polishing compounds. I haveonly used rottenstone and automotive polishers. Anyone ever usedBrownell's? How does it compare?Ralph from anglport@con2.com Fri Oct 23 15:42:04 1998 Subject: Re: glue (Resorcinol) Ian,Count me in. I've used it in the past and it worked pretty well. I didn'teven flame the cane and it didn't look too bad, but I never knew it wastemperature sensitive when setting!Thanks,Art I have seen a schedule of the time required forresorcinol to obtain full strength at different temperatures and can getthat from work next week if anyone is interested. regards Iank from gwbarnes@gwi.net Fri Oct 23 16:55:25 1998 Subject: Re: glue / adhesive poll ? Haftel, Dennis Jay wrote: A.J., Is that because of the open time? I'm a beginner too. A bit over 25 years ago I started with recosinol, then changed to WestSystemepoxy which has a short pot life, then after listening to Bill Fink andothersmoved on to EPON. Epon wins hands down in my book and that's where I'dstart.Long pot life, straightens well because it doesn't get an early set anddoesn'tspoil on the shelf. George Barnes from MasjC1@aol.com Fri Oct 23 17:09:11 1998 Subject: Re: glue / adhesive poll ? Kent, I've followed Wayne's advice and used Nyatex. After binding, I let it sit inthe string about 24 hours without any heat. I then remove the string andhangin my drying cabinet for several days to completely cure. Clean up, on theuncured epoxy, is accomplished with regular household vinegar. I'vecompletedtwo rods and have had no problems with glues.The method provides a long setup time for straightening. Mark Cole from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri Oct 23 17:25:50 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: glue (Resorcinol) Ian, I would be interested! (TIA) George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: glue (Resorcinol) Brian , Robert, We use a lot of Resorcinol glue in the business of building laminatedbeams sensativeto temperature for setting to full strength . In winter we use large heatpacks to set the glue over night , in summer we have a misting system tolower the temperature so the glue does not go off before the beams aregluedup . It is my understanding that heat is not necessary for the hardening of theglue but that ambiant temperature will affect the time it takes the gluetoobtain full strength. . I have seen a schedule of the time required forresorcinol to obtain full strength at different temperatures and can getthat from work next week if anyone is interested. regards IankAt 04:32 PM 22/10/98 -0700, you wrote:Brian, could you give me a hint as to how to heat set Resorcinol? I wasunder the impression that you can't heat set it. Thanks, Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------SNIPGuys at Custom Pak Adhesives told me howto heat set the glue,SNIP Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374RichmondNew Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz from gwbarnes@gwi.net Fri Oct 23 17:34:50 1998 Subject: Re: Plane Blade Angles Jon Lintvet wrote: I am curious what you all think are the most common sharpeningangles for a 9 1/2 and a 60 block plane? Jon: Assuming you will end up with an equation, why not publish that as wellas a table of sharpening angles? That would let those who want adifferent angle to work out the Veritas settin.Just a thought. George from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Fri Oct 23 17:45:43 1998 17:45:09 ix10.ix.netcom.comvia smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: glue / adhesive poll ? Hello Chris. I did some experimenting with some "chips", leftover in themixing cup. I popped them out and subjected them to differenttemperaturesin the kitchen stove. I found that the epoxy softened at around 200degrees. It took on the characteristics of old Jello. At 300 degrees itturned a bit amber but in all cases returned to full strength on cooling.I would not trust the joints over 200 degrees. Sitting they would probablybe OK but if bent, they would probably delaminate. Regartds,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 10:10 PM 10/22/98 -0800, you wrote:O.K.......I'll bite. It's been proven that it can get up to 245 degreesinsideof a car. Can the Epon or other types of epoxy used in building rodshandle thiskind of temperature?--Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com Chris Bogart wrote: Dennis Actually Epon is a good first time glue since it is very forgivingin its use and has no real downside (negative) to it. Good choice ofglue. Chris from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Oct 23 18:32:39 1998 Subject: Re: glue / adhesive poll ? ChrisTemperature is not the problem to the glue I would be moreconcerned about your varnish. Temp is fine unless you put stress on the rod. I assumeyou are not taking a rod and flexing it at this temp. Also the is the temp of thepassengercompartment. I assume most people would have rods in the trunk. Now, I carry my rods all the time in the car (station wagon) 365 daysayear(never know when you find that special fishing spot) and I have noproblems. Ialsokeep my rods in wood tubes vice metal tubes. Chris On Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:10:55 -0800, Chris Wohlford wrote: O.K.......I'll bite. It's been proven that it can get up to 245 degrees insideof a car. Can the Epon or other types of epoxy used in building rods handlethiskind of temperature?--Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com Chris Bogart wrote: Dennis Actually Epon is a good first time glue since it is very forgivingin its use and has no real downside (negative) to it. Good choice ofglue. Chris Regards Chris from sshorb@ozip.net Fri Oct 23 18:37:14 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-55785U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Fri, 23 Oct 1998 18:37:46 -0500 Subject: Shell Epon Anybody; I'm new at this, so I looked up Shell Epon. There are numerous 'Epon's"; eg:825, 826, 828, 829, 830, 834, 836, 862, 872, 8280, and blends 813,815C and others.Resin solutions; 834-X-90, 1001-A-80, 1001-B-80, 1001-T-75, 1031-B-80and others.Curing agents; Shell Epi-Cure: 3046, 3125(V-25), 3140(V-40),3223(DETA),3234(TETA), 3253, 3271, 3282, 3295, 3382, 3502 and others.Then there are waterborne resins and curing agents; modifiers; and onand on.Can someone please tell me which of these has been used or is used toglue strips together. Thanks for any info.Skip from rclarke@eou.edu Fri Oct 23 18:40:51 1998 Subject: Re: glue / adhesive poll ?-Resorcinol times Onis, I did some welding on my copy of the Tom Smithwick binder, andfoundthat I had some epoxy on there that did the jello thing, but never cameback to full strength. I imagine that the heat was a little more than 200 from my welder, but I don't know. Interesting stuff! Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu Ian, I am interested in the chart you indicated. Thanks again for all ofyour help! ----------From: Onis Cogburn . I found that the epoxy softened at around 200degrees. It took on the characteristics of old Jello. from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Oct 23 18:56:18 1998 Subject: Re: Shell Epon SkipThe combination is 828 resin and 3140(V40) curing agent mixed1:1 - I do it by weight. Chris On Fri, 23 Oct 1998 18:38:30 -0500, Skip Shorb wrote: Anybody; I'm new at this, so I looked up Shell Epon. There are numerous 'Epon's"; eg:825, 826, 828, 829, 830, 834, 836, 862, 872, 8280, and blends 813,815C and others.Resin solutions; 834-X-90, 1001-A-80, 1001-B-80, 1001-T-75, 1031-B-80and others.Curing agents; Shell Epi-Cure: 3046, 3125(V-25), 3140(V-40),3223(DETA),3234(TETA), 3253, 3271, 3282, 3295, 3382, 3502 and others.Then there are waterborne resins and curing agents; modifiers; and onand on.Can someone please tell me which of these has been used or is used toglue strips together. Thanks for any info.Skip Regards Chris from sshorb@ozip.net Fri Oct 23 19:52:01 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-55785U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Fri, 23 Oct 1998 19:52:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Shell Epon Chris; Thanks for the info. Do you know if anyone has tried an 'elastomermodified resin'? They apparently "increase flexibility, adhesionproperties and fatigue resistance". These are the claims ofMiller-Stephenson. ThanksSkip from arnold_jeff@hotmail.com Fri Oct 23 19:55:05 1998 Fri, 23 Oct 1998 17:54:32 PDT Subject: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine Has anyone seen the latest issue of the BFR Magazine that was due out 2 months ago (editor delays), 1 month ago (copy boy forgot to deliver to printers), 2 weeks ago (printing problems), 1 week ago (distribution problems). It will be out next week.....Or is the postal service going on strike! Sorry for the ranting...I look for the damn thing like a kid looking for the Christmas Catalogs. ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from bacon@idt.net Fri Oct 23 20:25:48 1998 Subject: Re: P.U.I. Onis Cogburn wrote: OK, I'll bite. What's B. U. I.? Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 09:08 PM 10/17/98 -0700, you wrote:onis,i CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: I enjoyed reading it. The local homebrew supply here sellsreconditioned=5 gal. soft drink kegs. Mine are empty right now. Darn, I need to getcaught up on this building long enough to make a batch. Planing wouldbemore fun if I didn't have to work with a dry throat. Redgards,Onis Be careful Onis, you could be cited on a PUI (Planing under influence ofanintoxicating beverage). The bamboo police may drop by and run youthroughthe following sobriety tests. You'll need to plane in a straight line with no wobbling of the planeiron. Then recite all of the famous rodmakers by name in reversealphabeticalorder. Finally, you must look up, arms extended and touch the tip of your nosewith a wobbly tip strip. If you fail, your planing license may be suspended. Be careful!! Chris onis,i will also check your blood for B.U.I.,nurse ratchet onis,bambooing under the influence? ratchet from bacon@idt.net Fri Oct 23 20:30:20 1998 Subject: Re: Growing your own cane Max Satoh wrote: Ralph W Moon wrote: Thanks Max. The bamboo was definitely on the white side as comparedwith conventional bamboo, although it was a messow yellowish white. Iwill try to see if I have Mr. Urano's address. and let you knowRalph Ralph, sorry to be late in answerring. I found that a certain bamboo wholeseller here has so called "WhiteBamboo". White Bamboo is not the name for a kind of bamboos whichgrowsbut a knid of merchandises produced. White bamboo is artificially made process will get rid of oil element and dirt out of the canes, andresults in beautiful ivory, yellowish-white enamel surface. I am interested in three things here. One is the method of getting ridof oil element out of cane. the second is its diameters ranging from 2"to 3". The thrid is its color. I would try this for fly rod after searching its strength. If I taperit rather thicker than Tonkin, it might be used for fly rod, even if thepower fiber is thinner than Tonkin. There is another artificial colored bamboo called "Tiger Bamboo" whichhas a beautiful patterns on the surface with dark brown color. Diameteris also 2~3". This pattern is made while the cane surface is still softwhile growing up, they put very thin sulphuric acid on the entiresurface. When the cane grows, the brown color is splitted or spread onthe surface and makes several patterns like tiger skin.These above are all being used for interior/garden exterior decolation. I had another question of "Why we scrape off enamel of bamboo" in rodmaking. I also would try not scrape the enamel off for next rod whenusing above colored canes. My thought now (conceptuallyl) is that afterfinal planing and glueing with enamel on, I should round off the flowershape blank to have completely round rod with the color of original caneleft. How do you think about this as A new kind of bamboo fly rod. http://home2.highway.or.jp/y-asai/meitiku.htmThough this page is in Japanese, it has photos of several coloredbamboos. http://web.kyoto-inet.or.jp/people/takehei/This is English page. Regards, Max--Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlmax,do you give canerod lessons where you live?, would you teach afemale? just interested, as you seem to be a perfectionist.jean from jczimny@dol.net Fri Oct 23 20:35:16 1998 Subject: Re: Shell Epon Yes, I advocate it for ferrules. It's strong, but retains a good degree offlexibility in the cold. Using it to glue cane would probably require you tore- work all your tapers.John Z-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Shell Epon Chris; Thanks for the info. Do you know if anyone has tried an 'elastomermodified resin'? They apparently "increase flexibility, adhesionproperties and fatigue resistance". These are the claims ofMiller-Stephenson. ThanksSkip from bacon@idt.net Fri Oct 23 20:43:29 1998 Subject: Re: Hook-keeper rings Haftel, Dennis Jay wrote: You GO Jean! Besides... A real man would just quietly bury the hook in his hand toavoidsnagging his fishin' buddies while moving from spot to spot! BTW: Anyonehave a good method of cleaning blood off of cork? Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Jean Conelli [SMTP:bacon@idt.net]Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 1998 10:37 PM Subject: Re: Hook-keeper rings Ken Cole wrote: sideof the rod, away from the casting plane, to permit wrapping theleaderaround the reel as I described? I don't think another wrap outside ofthe casting plane would afect the action, but I've never done it.> Something else to snag the fly line. My 2o. Ken Coleken,besides having the hookkeeper as "something else to snag the flyline",you JUST DON'T NEED IT, so why bother...(i also think it's cool NOT tohave one, 'cause orvis DOES...and i can't stand orvis. thanksjean aka nurse ratchetdennis,(the more blood you have on your cork, the cooler you are)..seriously,have never needed a hookkeeper, found that the largest guide more thancompensates for wrapping anything extra...you just have to wind yourline around the reel and then attach the hook to the guide upsidedown,it works great. i'm usually too tired to wrap the hookkeeper, (it'salways the last thing); so i tell myself it's unnecessary, but perhapsi'm wrong...just a lady trying to be efficient.jean (bacon@ide.net) from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Fri Oct 23 20:50:34 1998 20:50:00 ix13.ix.netcom.comvia smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: P.U.I. Whadda ya mean "Who was driving?", Ossifer? We were all in the backseatsinging! Onisonis,bambooing under the influence? ratchet from sshorb@ozip.net Fri Oct 23 20:54:34 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-55785U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Fri, 23 Oct 1998 20:55:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Shell Epon John Z; I assume it would require adding a few thou to each station? Skip from bacon@idt.net Fri Oct 23 21:00:15 1998 Subject: Re: Hook-keeper rings Ken Cole wrote: besides having the hookkeeper as "something else to snag the flyline",you JUST DON'T NEED IT, so why bother...(i also think it's cool NOT tohave one, 'cause orvis DOES...and i can't stand orvis. thanksjean aka nurse ratchet> Ratchet Never made a rod with one; never used one on a rod I bought. Somethingabout crimps in my fly line. Got this from an old steelhead guide formOregon. And you're right. So does Winston, so does Payne and, so does Powell. Sodo a lot of the current makers. What have you got against our finefriends in Manchester. Ken Coleken,i guess they've gotten a tad too commerciallly involved for my taste..they have moved up on the delaware river near my cabin, and have takenaway from some great guides who've been working a lifetime to build upclients and to protect the river...they tend to bring a lot of yuppieswith cell phones and beepers, yuck! sorry for my severe opinionization. PS (oops sorry, i promised only rod building stuff), am still filtering.jean from bacon@idt.net Fri Oct 23 21:28:37 1998 Subject: Re: Hook-keeper rings hank,that FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: Nurse Ratchet,Orvis ain't the only one making rods with hook keepers :-). Actually, Iusually wrap my leader around the reel and hook the fly in the 1st snakeguideabove the stripper, but I find most of my buyers want hook keepers.Stay cool,Hank. hank,i don't have any buyers yet, have only built graphite rods, but havenever needed a hookkeeper, have done exactly what you do...it alsoleaves more line available for a quicker cast when the BIG ONE comesalong. (and by the time i've wrapped all the guides, i really can'tbear the thought of wrapping a hookkeeper that i'll never use).jean (aka ratchet, aka canebuilder wannabee)(bacon@idt.net) from jkallo@midwest.net Fri Oct 23 21:50:13 1998 Subject: Driggs vs. Force Hello all,Well none of my components arrived today so in a fit oflack-of- rodmaking-stuff-to-do I have started looking at tapers for #2. Iamconsidering a parabolic rod. In particular I am looking at the Payne Driggsand Wayne's Force. I am leaning toward The Force as I'd like a bitlonger/heavier stick to fish the nearby Devil's Kitchen lake (the one withthe bannana/palomino trout), but the reports I've read in the archivesconcerning the Driggs make it out to be a sort of magic wand. For this rodI am looking for something which will get line out a pretty gooddistance--the lake drops off quickly and I am often forced to fish only afew steps from shore. Any suggestions? Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from bacon@idt.net Fri Oct 23 21:52:33 1998 Subject: Re: Hook-keeper rings George W. Barnes wrote: Jean Conelli wrote: Ken Cole wrote: sideof the rod, away from the casting plane, to permit wrapping theleaderaround the reel as I described? I don't think another wrap outside ofthe casting plane would afect the action, but I've never done it.> Something else to snag the fly line. My 2o. Ken Coleken,besides having the hookkeeper as "something else to snag the flyline",you JUST DON'T NEED IT, so why bother...(i also think it's cool NOT tohave one, 'cause orvis DOES...and i can't stand orvis. thanksjean aka nurse ratchet Now Jean, please don't knock orvis. It was their truly nasty attitude thatstartedme making cane rods, back in the early 70's. Something good even comes from thelikes of them. Georgegeorge,sounds like a story here! HOW did orvis start you building canerods inthe 70's? i truly would like to know! i have my own reasons fordisliking the conglomeration that ORVIS has become, including takingover hardworking guys territory where i fish on the delaware. answerjean (aka nurse ratchet)bacon@idt.net from jczimny@dol.net Fri Oct 23 23:14:31 1998 Subject: Re: Shell Epon Yeah, maybe two. Ask Chris.John Z-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Shell Epon John Z; I assume it would require adding a few thou to each station? Skip from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Oct 23 23:24:35 1998 Subject: Re: Polishing an Old Rod Ralph,I've used the compounds from Brownell's for manyyears on gun stocks and rods. They work very good. Dave L. from sshorb@ozip.net Fri Oct 23 23:30:00 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-55785U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Fri, 23 Oct 1998 23:30:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Shell Epon Thanks. Skip from mlandon@inreach.com Sat Oct 24 00:14:44 1998 bymail.inreach.com (8.8.8/8.8.6/(InReach)) with SMTP id WAA03936 for Subject: Tonkin supplier Hi,I am new to the list and wnat to try my hand at making a bamboo rod. Does anyone know where to find a Tonkin supplier on the West coast (California)? Thanks in advance. -Mark from maxs@geocities.co.jp Sat Oct 24 00:18:15 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id OAA02968for; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 14:18:09 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: flaming Ralph W Moon wrote: I do the nodes and straightening first, then flame ,then restraighten if needed. I generally don't charcoal the cane enough to worry aboutgettingdown to intact fibers. I often heat treat after flaming, depending on my mood at the time.Regards,Hank. Hank it sounds like you split before flaming. Everytime I have donethat I find that the edges get burned before I get the rind side thecolor I want. I always flame the entire culm. Am I different somehow?Ralph Hank and Ralph, There are two ways of flaming, I guess. I use both ways depending onthe occasion. When I need to color a rod entirely, I flame the entireculm. When I need to have some stripe pattern on a rod, I need split the cane,finish the staggerling, then put some flamed striped line on the splitsadjusting each strip position. In this case, it is sure to have burnededges when it is made in open air. I place all the strips flat on theconcrete block with less space under the strips and in betwen, and giveflame on stripps as if the flame is stopped at the stripps surface orconcreteblock. It will minimize the edges burn first. Max-- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from maxs@geocities.co.jp Sat Oct 24 00:21:33 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id OAA04495for; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 14:21:28 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: moisture in blank According to the suggestios of everybody, I made my portable UrushiDryer and Sir D type Dip tubes with heater box all in one, yesterday. Since all the ideas had been collected through the list, the suggestionson moisture subject let me do it now. Though the shape is different from Ian's one, the function and the purpose is exactly same to yoursuggestions. It matches to narrow Japanese room. I put the photo and drawing of this on my web for reference for thoseinterested.Thank you, Tom, Ian, Michael, Harry, irish-george and Hank, WDHCJL foradvices. Thanks,Max-- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from WayneCatt@aol.com Sat Oct 24 00:48:27 1998 Subject: Thanks For The Hat Upon arriving home tonight I had a package awaiting - it contained aninteresting hat and a letter send from Dick Furman - The hat and the letterwas appreciated - a Thanks goes out to Dick and the others involved. Asmuchas I should wear it to protect the blad spot I have pinned it to 'the wall'. Ido hope that you all realize that I still need to wear waders just likeeveryone else. I hope that you get to attend next years SRG - the bestadvicethat I can give is to hang close to Harry - he's not only a Fisher of Men -but he can catch trout as well. Thanks AgainWayne from chris@artistree.com Sat Oct 24 02:00:00 1998 XAA26900 Subject: Re: Tonkin supplier Mark, Tuxedo CaneP.O. Box 1167Stockton, CA 95201Phone: 209-948-6757Fax: 209-948-6757 Mark Daniel Landon wrote: Hi,I am new to the list and wnat to try my hand at making a bamboo rod.Does anyone know where to find a Tonkin supplier on the West coast(California)? Thanks in advance. -Mark from chris@artistree.com Sat Oct 24 02:03:48 1998 AAA27039 Subject: Re: Tonkin supplier Mark,I see I got the phone number incorrect in the first posting. Beenworking a little too much with the varnish tonight. Here is the correctinfo: Tuxedo CaneP.O. Box 1167Stockton, CA 95201Phone: 209-948-6508Fax: 209-948-6757 Mark Daniel Landon wrote: Hi,I am new to the list and wnat to try my hand at making a bamboo rod.Does anyone know where to find a Tonkin supplier on the West coast(California)? Thanks in advance. -Mark --Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from richjez@enteract.com Sat Oct 24 07:46:54 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine My local Orvis shop said the current delay with this issue is because TomMorgan passed away and they are doing a commemorative issue on him. Hesaid hehad called the mag ant that is what they told him.Rich Jezioro At 05:54 PM 10/23/98 -0700, you wrote:Has anyone seen the latest issue of the BFR Magazine that was due out 2 months ago (editor delays), 1 month ago (copy boy forgot to deliver to printers), 2 weeks ago (printing problems), 1 week ago (distribution problems). It will be out next week.....Or is the postal service going on strike! Sorry for the ranting...I look for the damn thing like a kid looking for the Christmas Catalogs. ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ /||/______/_||_________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > from arnold_jeff@hotmail.com Sat Oct 24 09:10:25 1998 Sat, 24 Oct 1998 07:09:53 PDT Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine Well don't I feel really stupid! I guess that I get the jackass award Sorry..... Jeff My local Orvis shop said the current delay with this issue is because TomMorgan passed away and they are doing a commemorative issue on him. He said hehad called the mag ant that is what they told him.Rich Jezioro At 05:54 PM 10/23/98 -0700, you wrote:Has anyone seen the latest issue of the BFR Magazine that was due out 2 months ago (editor delays), 1 month ago (copy boy forgot to deliver to printers), 2 weeks ago (printing problems), 1 week ago (distribution problems). It will be out next week.....Or is the postal service going on strike! Sorry for the ranting...I look for the damn thing like a kid looking the Christmas Catalogs. ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ /||/______/_||_________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > / \ > ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sat Oct 24 09:10:26 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Sat,24Oct 1998 10:19:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine Yeah..I didn't want to say anything last time the topic came up but there are some obvious issues. We are two issues behind now I believe. I guess we just have to wish them good luck and hope they know when to ask for help. On 23 Oct 98, at 17:54, Jeff Arnold wrote: Has anyone seen the latest issue of the BFR Magazine that was due out 2months ago (editor delays), 1 month ago (copy boy forgot to deliver toprinters), 2 weeks ago (printing problems), 1 week ago (distributionproblems). It will be out next week.....Or is the postal service going onstrike! Sorry for the ranting...I look for the damn thing like a kid looking forthe Christmas Catalogs. ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.munrorodco.com from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sat Oct 24 09:10:32 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Sat,24Oct 1998 10:19:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Plane Blade Angles We will...just figured we would use common angles to demonstrate the equation. Take care, On 23 Oct 98, at 17:23, George W. Barnes wrote: Jon Lintvet wrote: I am curious what you all think are the most common sharpeningangles for a 9 1/2 and a 60 block plane? Jon: Assuming you will end up with an equation, why not publish that as wellasa table of sharpening angles? That would let those who want a differentangle to work out the Veritas settin. Just a thought. George Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.munrorodco.com from rmoon@ida.net Sat Oct 24 09:13:43 1998 Subject: Re: Polishing an Old Rod Thanks Dave Sinclair makes the observation that Brownell's in part disolves andredistributes the old film, rather than just abrading it. Any comment? Ralph from rmoon@ida.net Sat Oct 24 09:18:43 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine Rich Tom Morgan is alive and well according to word from Mark Metcalflast Monday. Tom Maxwell did pass away about a month ago.Ralph from DEMARALON@aol.com Sat Oct 24 09:38:38 1998 Subject: Re: Tonkin supplier This is Charles H DEMAREST,INC P.O.BOX 238 BLOOMINGDALE N.J.07403We have specialized in importing TONKIN CANE for rodmakers since thenineteen twenties. Please provide your mail adress and we will maildetails, Cordially Harold Demarest from fritzwiese@webtv.net Sat Oct 24 10:28:26 1998 mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP idIAA27054; 111.iap.bryant.webtv.net(8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id IAA05549; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 08:28:23 -0700 ETAsAhRkwXEPsOOSCU8Og5nIKJG8D0SJjgIUIb4wIIUCPwPuqfjQ9kbo7Mfuwcs= Subject: Re: Polishing an Old Rod --WebTV-Mail-1711508599-193 Have used Brownells Five "F" and Triple "F" for very long time. One ismineral oil medium and the other is something else. Have always had touse alcohol to get it off. When I found the rubbing compound for clearcoat finishes I glued a square of 1/4" felt on a tongue depressor andpolished flats on plate glass. used terry cloth to polish. Residueseemed to come right off. Q-tip around the guides. Fritz --WebTV-Mail-1711508599-193 (mailsorter-101.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/po.gso.24Feb98) mailsorter-101.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.graham.14Aug97) with wugate.wustl.edu(8.8.8/8.8.5) wugate.wustl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA09657 for; mail.ida.net(8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA14253 for; Subject: Re: Polishing an Old Rod Thanks Dave Sinclair makes the observation that Brownell's in part disolves andredistributes the old film, rather than just abrading it. Any comment? Ralph --WebTV-Mail-1711508599-193-- from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Oct 24 11:14:07 1998 Subject: Re: Re: glue / adhesive poll ? I've had no problems with Urac-100+ rodsHank Woolman from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Oct 24 11:14:12 1998 Subject: Re: Re: flaming Ralph,I flame the unplaned strips with a standard nozzle Bernsomaticpropanetorch, sometimes both inside and out (and I have to be carefull not toplanethe enamel side if I've done both sides-I did that once ). If i final planeand then flame I do char the edges.Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Oct 24 11:21:55 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine I just talked to Tom Morgan 10 days ago-he seemed well and alert then andI'vereceived mail from him yesterday.Hank. from briansr@point-net.com Sat Oct 24 11:27:20 1998 0000 Subject: beginner's corner Hello list .Should the exterior enamal on a culm be removed & at what point in theproceedings??TIA Brian S. from rodsmiths@imt.net Sat Oct 24 11:42:04 1998 cu.imt.net(8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA08593 for ;Sat, 24 Oct Subject: my demise Hi everyone, My demise is certainly news to me and I might add unwelcome news atthat. There must be some confusion with my name and Tom Maxwell. I'malive and well in Montana and expect to see many more summers come andgo. Best wishes to all,Tom Morgan from fritzwiese@webtv.net Sat Oct 24 12:27:26 1998 mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP idKAA09745; 111.iap.bryant.webtv.net(8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id KAA19917; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 10:27:24 -0700 ETAtAhRZL56fxHN9JMhvEiHSHqL/Eb84NwIVAK7qUOiYfhOKhBcqkGcurSMo5itG Subject: Dip Tank Am just putting the finishing touches on dip tank per W.C. specs.Fortunately, I had a half dozen 12 V. 1 rpm geared motors laying around.Put a speed contoller and it was easy to get the recommended 4 1/2" perminute lift. My question is: Desirable to put weight on bottom of therod section to stabilize and overcome any bobbing of the rod section,while lifting? Thanks, Fritz Wiese from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Sat Oct 24 12:33:10 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine On Sat, 24 Oct 1998, Rich Jezioro wrote: My local Orvis shop said the current delay with this issue is becauseTomMorgan passed away and they are doing a commemorative issue on him.He said hehad called the mag ant that is what they told him.Rich Jezioro Tom Morgan has not passed away. BITE YOUR TONGUE. Two Toms in one yearwould be too much to bear. Regards, Bobflysupplies@yahoo.com from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sat Oct 24 13:26:33 1998 Sat, 24 Oct 1998 13:24:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Thanks For The Hat Gee Thanks, Wayne --Now I'll never get to do any fishing next year! 8-) Seriously, I'm goingtotry to tie a few flies (sowbugs and scuds) for everyone in attendance, andgetsomeone to do a demo on how to catch White River basin trout. I'd almost,but notquite, rather take others fishing, and see them catch a few, than gomyself.Like you, I need something to cover up the "halo" on the back of my head.Hope you can join us again next year, and if you do make it down, I'll againtryto trick you into fishing sub-surface! Mostly just wanted to say I'm glad toseeyou back with us. All my best,Harry WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: Upon arriving home tonight I had a package awaiting - it contained aninteresting hat and a letter send from Dick Furman - The hat and theletterwas appreciated - a Thanks goes out to Dick and the others involved. Asmuchas I should wear it to protect the blad spot I have pinned it to 'the wall'.Ido hope that you all realize that I still need to wear waders just likeeveryone else. I hope that you get to attend next years SRG - the bestadvicethat I can give is to hang close to Harry - he's not only a Fisher of Men -but he can catch trout as well. Thanks AgainWayne from richjez@enteract.com Sat Oct 24 13:49:30 1998 0000 Subject: Apoligy to Tom Morgan Tom, I am embarrassed and red faced. You now are in good company. "The report of my death was an exaggeration. "Mark Twain , cable from London to a New York newspaper [Often quoted as"Reports of my death are greatly exaggerated."] Glad you are aliveRich Jezioro So much for trusting an Orvis dealer. *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ /||/______/_||_________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Sat Oct 24 15:39:51 1998 ; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 09:39:44 +1300 Subject: Re: moisture in blank Max , I am not too sure that rodmaking equipment is supposed to look soattractiveand well made . It puts my battered old wardrobe to shame . Your buildingskills , and computor skills for the diagrams, are terrific. It looks avery nice setup. Incidently I had my eye on the thermost controlled oil heater from thehallin the house to use as a heater for my box but when I mentioned it toSWMBOI recieved " the look" and I quickly decided a light bulb would do for now !! regards Iank At 02:22 PM 24/10/98 +0900, you wrote:According to the suggestios of everybody, I made my portable UrushiDryer and Sir D type Dip tubes with heater box all in one, yesterday. Since all the ideas had been collected through the list, the suggestionson moisture subject let me do it now. Though the shape is different from Ian's one, the function and the purpose is exactly same to yoursuggestions. It matches to narrow Japanese room. I put the photo and drawing of this on my web for reference for thoseinterested.Thank you, Tom, Ian, Michael, Harry, irish-george and Hank, WDHCJL foradvices. Thanks,Max-- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz from cphisey@neca.com Sat Oct 24 16:22:34 1998 Subject: Re: Dip Tank At 01:27 PM 10/24/98 -0400, you wrote:Am just putting the finishing touches on dip tank My question is:Desirable to put weight on bottom of therod section to stabilize and overcome any bobbing of the rod section,while lifting?Thanks,Fritz Wiese I've haven't found any need to put extra weight on a section,they sink justfine.One trick I got from George Maurer is to pull the section up out offthe tube(just grab the line by hand) so the varnish sheets off ,then lowerit back down and withdraw the section with the motor.This seems toremove alot of the air bubbles that you would normally get.Charlie Hisey from cphisey@neca.com Sat Oct 24 16:40:58 1998 Subject: Re: beginner's corner At 12:26 PM 10/24/98 -0400, you wrote:Hello list .Should the exterior enamal on a culm be removed & at what point in theproceedings??TIA Brian S. yes it should.As to when,some wait till after binding and glueing thesections,sanding off the glue and enamel at the same time;or you canremoveit during final planing.Both ways work fine (I've used both)but if you waittill after glueing ,you have to make strips oversized by 1 or 2 thousandthsto allow for the enamel that you will sand off.Charlie Hisey from maxs@geocities.co.jp Sat Oct 24 16:47:08 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id GAA06152for; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 06:47:01 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: moisture in blank Ian Kearney wrote: Max , I am not too sure that rodmaking equipment is supposed to look soattractiveand well made . It puts my battered old wardrobe to shame . Your buildingskills , and computor skills for the diagrams, are terrific. It looks avery nice setup. Incidently I had my eye on the thermost controlled oil heater from thehallin the house to use as a heater for my box but when I mentioned it toSWMBOI recieved " the look" and I quickly decided a light bulb would do for now!! regards Ian, I just wanted to have old wardrobe like yours but it is only because ofmy small rat house. Most of us do not have garage (we have only spaceto park) nor basement. I have to make things compact.You are also an idea man, oil heater is a nice source of steadyheating. I have one but a little big to use as a tool. There is such athought to consider an entire room is a heating box if we use warm airconditioner though it's dusty and not confortable to live in. By theway, what does SWMBO means. There are several acronyms in this listsuch as IMHO, SWMBO, etc.. appreciate explanation for those. Thanks for nice words. Max-- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from gwbarnes@gwi.net Sat Oct 24 16:53:05 1998 Subject: Line Weight Thanks to all who answered my question on line weight for the steel flyrod.The answers have been passed on to my friend. Georgegwbarnes@gwi.net from gwbarnes@gwi.net Sat Oct 24 16:56:01 1998 Subject: Sorry to have to use list space, but ... Tried to answer your off line question but mail returned. Will try againif you reforward your address.George Barnesgwbarnes@gwi.net from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Sat Oct 24 17:01:44 1998 Subject: Re: Apoligy to Tom Morgan On Sat, 24 Oct 1998, Rich Jezioro wrote: Tom, I am embarrassed and red faced. You now are in good company. "The report of my death was an exaggeration. "Mark Twain , cable from London to a New York newspaper [Often quotedas"Reports of my death are greatly exaggerated."] Glad you are aliveRich Jezioro So much for trusting an Orvis dealer. So are we to conclude that an Orvis dealer wouldn't know a Winston from aT&T? Or their heritage? Harrumph! Regards, Bobflysupplies@yahoo.com from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Sat Oct 24 19:09:59 1998 ; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 13:09:53 +1300 Subject: Re: moisture in blank Max, I could get myself into a lot of trouble here ..and I trust the spirit isnot lost in translation .. however . As you will be aware there are quite a few codewords in rodmaking . Level one codewords are words like "planning forms" , "Stanley 9 1/2 "nodes","flaming" , etc which can be looked up in on of the code breakingbooks written by people such as Garrison , Howell and St Wayne . Generallythese code breaking books will provide the answers to most of thequestionsrelating to level one codewords for a newcomer to rodmaking. Level two codewords are much harder . To truely understand these andtheirsignificance you need some rodmaking experience. Some examples of theseinclude "sticking plasters ", "really sharp" , "flattening nodes" ,"charcoal" ,"twist", "straight" tuning a binder " etc. Some of these codewords are in the code breaking manuals , but always in the part which youdid not remember about , or you missed that page . Usually the explanationor help on these codes can be obtained on rodmakers list or on one of thevery helpfull pages such as Chris or Tony's. Level three code words are much fewer , and tend to be more related totheaffects of rodmaking rather then the techniques. These codewords are notfound in any books , but the affect is easily recognisible whenexperienced.This is where the code SWMBO comes from . It is based on the teachings ofalittle known ( actually unknown) rodmaker called Rumpole who starred ina TVseries about barristers. Many rodmakers have wives and partners who theyadore , but who , from time to time do not quite seem "to understand ". Forexample SWMBO in my case considered it unreasonable of me to take thehallheater to the garage to use in my old wardrobe full of hanging bits ofbamboo.As you confirmed , an oil column heater would be ideal for heatingastorage box for bamboo but SWMBO felt it should remain in the house toheatthe house in winter . Rumpole had a wife , who he adored , but did not quiteunderstand him . He therefore , very respectfully ,called her ..She Who MustBe Obeyed " hence the initials SWMBO . In my example the heater thereforeremained in the house . A year or so ago it was decided by the list members at that time that itcould be just a little dangerous to refer directly to wives and partners asthey might one day read this list and that could lead to some majormisunderstandings and trouble for a well meaning rodmaker. So theRumpoleinitials were adopted . ( Jean , you could use HWMBO ... but ladies tend tobe a little less relaxed about acknowledging the inevitible which usmalesopenly accept) Over time a few level three code words have developed . "the look" is thereaction one gets when a very logical , from a rodmakers perspective ,suggestion is made to SWMBO regarding matters such as : time spent atrodmaking , using wife's favourite dressmaking sizzors for cuttingmaterial ormachinery , spending every evening in the garage for two weeks , wastingtime on the computor talking about rodmaking instead of mowing thelawns (like now .. I should get "the look" at any minute now ) etc. term. Its use on this list indicates there are many different opinions onmost things to do with rodmaking and many contributors do not holdthemselves out as having all, or the only , answers. sorry about the bandwidth folks , now I had better go and mow the lawnsor Iwill be in big trouble with SWMBO regards Iank At 06:47 AM 25/10/98 +0900, you wrote:Ian Kearney wrote: Max , I am not too sure that rodmaking equipment is supposed to look soattractiveand well made . deletedI mentioned it to SWMBOI recieved " the look" and I quickly decided a light bulb would do for now!! regards Ian, deleted way, what does SWMBO means. There are several acronyms in this listsuch as IMHO, SWMBO, etc.. appreciate explanation for those. Thanks for nice words. Max-- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz from ragnarig@integrityol.com Sat Oct 24 19:58:21 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A9FF4640206; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 18:08:15 PDT Subject: Re: moisture in blank boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0040_01BDFF77.8C765BC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0040_01BDFF77.8C765BC0 listterm. Its use on this list indicates there are many different opinions =onmost things to do with rodmaking and many contributors do not hold So you're saying it doesn't mean, "I Must Habitate Outside." Davy ------=_NextPart_000_0040_01BDFF77.8C765BC0 doesn't mean, "I Must HabitateOutside." Davy ------=_NextPart_000_0040_01BDFF77.8C765BC0-- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Oct 24 19:58:39 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine List,I talked to Mark on the phone wednesday and was assured that themagazinewould be shipped in approximatley 2 weeks, and the next issue should beabouta month behind that. As with all start up businesses there are all sorts ofgrowing pains with employees, printing, ads etc. I for one am willing towaitand give Mark a chance so please be patient and hope that everything getsstraightened out for the magazine and the second year will be better. Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Oct 24 20:00:47 1998 Subject: Re: my demise Tom, Like Mark Twain said and you can now too. "The news of my untimelydeathhas been greatly exaggerated". from ragnarig@integrityol.com Sat Oct 24 20:02:22 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id AAF04740206; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 18:12:16 PDT Subject: Re: my demise Hi everyone, My demise is certainly news to me and I might add unwelcome news atthat. There must be some confusion with my name and Tom Maxwell. I'malive and well in Montana and expect to see many more summers come andgo. Dear TomI'm sure that's the sentiment of everyone on the list, and we're holding youto it!Davy Riggs from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Oct 24 20:20:08 1998 Subject: Re: Re: flaming Steve,Go to menards and get a Turbo Torch I believe it is TS 4000 that Waynetold meto get. I don't get any adverse results from this. from CampblRods@aol.com Sat Oct 24 20:26:02 1998 Subject: Re: my demise Good to hear that Tom!Steve CampbellCampbell Rod Co.Brewer,Maine from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Oct 24 20:28:25 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Hand-rubbed finishes Al, are you rubbing the rottenstone using water or oil. Try using oilinsteadof water and see if you don't get more of a sheen. Also when done usemineralspirits to remove haze.Bret from MICK@welfen-netz.com Sat Oct 24 20:47:37 1998 [195.143.56.1]with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Sun,25 Oct 199802:47:08 +0100 Subject: Re: Plane Blade Angles UAA10912 jon I use 30Ÿ angle since 1985 on a 91/" and a Bailies #003and noproblems at all.Michael Jon Lintvet wrote: I am curious what you all think are the most common sharpeningangles for a 9 1/2 and a 60 block plane? I use 30* and a littleabove that. Maybe 33* for a 9 1/2, but I have never used a 60 blockplane. I am asking because a math gifted friend of mine is workingon an article with me for making a jig to use with the Veritas honingguide. We are publishing the math involved so it might as well bewhat people find useful. Take care,Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277- 4510http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from MICK@welfen-netz.com Sat Oct 24 20:53:53 1998 [195.143.56.1]with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Sun,25 Oct 199802:53:06 +0100 Subject: Re: no more planing hi john,I'ld like to know one thing about milling. Isn't it a bit noisy in a room?Michael John Zimny wrote: I'd be more than happy to share my experiences with a Bellinger mill ifanyonewouldlike to know about it. However, I've not been able to get a finishedqualitystrip outof it. What it does do, is give the maker a perfect triangular shape sothatfinishplaning is a breeze. But unless you are going to make more than two orthreerods ofthe same length, it is not a great time saver. It is easier on the hands.John Terence Ackland wrote: Rich,I can only take the list in small doses which I think works well for allofus.I have just got back on the list and decided to let the builders knowwhat Ihavebeen up to. I was very excited and just wanted to tell the group. Icertainlydidnot expect all the fuss when I refused to give details. I am a veryindependentbuilder and have always got the most pleasure out of finding my ownsolutionstoproblems. I enjoy this more than the actual building of rods.It would not have crossed my mind to ask a builder the details of hisbevellerunless it was a commercial unit and it would only be to ask him if hewassatisfied with it.It was a big mistake, I just thought it would have been moreinteresting thanhomegrown cane. I know there are several very experienced builders outthere usingbevellers and it would have an interesting topic for discussion beforethechildren started screaming.Terry Rich Jezioro wrote: Terry,I am of your generation and age and I don't understand.Why did you post this information to the list after many months ofsilence?Surely you expected people to ask questions about your process.If not, what was your purpose in informing us of your new rod makingprocess?Rich Jezioro At 08:28 PM 9/25/98 -0400, you wrote:Russ,all did was, was to refuse a very generous offer to share free whathascostme agood few thousand dollars to develop. What happens, I get attacked sharing.I have always been a socialist and do not mind 50% of my pay checkbeingtakenaway if it means that there is a social safety net in Canada and nochildrenhaveto live in beat up trailer 2 plots down.My social concience, I'm afraid, does not include a bunch ofrodmakingslackers.I am 51 years old and have spent more than I care to think about onrodmaking,money that should have gone into a retirement fund. I have had anaddedincentivein the fact that there have been many changes that do not look good atheplace Iwork. I have been working so that when or if there is a layoff I canfallbackonthe rods. What would happen if you started building like me? I wouldbebacktosquare oneYou guy of the me, me, me generation will not understand this. Waituntilyouaremy age and perhaps you'll understand.Terry Ackland Anachemrpo@aol.com wrote: Terry Ackland made the first bamboo rod I ever held or cast. Ifound itatthenow-defunct Orvis shop in Plattsburgh NY six or seven years ago. I was genuinely thrilled to have the chance to cast a bamboo flyrod. Ihadbeen raised on spin fishing and plastic rods. The bamboo rod that Iheldthatday was the key to a new world of fishing for me. Now the illusion is cracked. The bitterness and smart-a** pomposity, the likes of which I hadyet toseeonany mailing list (at least by a regular member), really disappoints. So go ahead, flame me with one of your scathing responses Mr. A..Youcan'thurt me any more than the disappointment already has. Russ Lavigne *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@ /||/______/_||_________________________________________||/\/ \ > > > > / \ > from rmoon@ida.net Sat Oct 24 21:04:29 1998 Subject: Re: moisture in blank IANK Very well said. Perhaps this might be a reasonable submission tothe Bamboo Rod Mag. Ralph from maxs@geocities.co.jp Sat Oct 24 21:51:38 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id LAA23871for; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 11:51:33 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: moisture in blank Ian,I start feeling the list more friendly by understanding level 3 codethough I'm receiving the shout instead of the look.Max from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sat Oct 24 22:01:27 1998 Subject: Re: Polishing an Old Rod Ralph, Yes, Brownell's compounds are very fine and do seemto work like that. I've used them to refinish antique weapons than the automotive compounds do. Dave l. from channer@hubwest.com Sat Oct 24 22:12:16 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A77AC700FA; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 21:14:02 MDT Subject: Re: moisture in blank At 01:09 PM 10/25/98 +1300, you wrote:Max, I could get myself into a lot of trouble here ..and I trust the spirit isnot lost in translation .. however . As you will be aware there are quite a few codewords in rodmaking . Level three code words are much fewer , and tend to be more related totheaffects of rodmaking rather then the techniques. These codewords are notfound in any books , but the affect is easily recognisible whenexperienced.This is where the code SWMBO comes from . It is based on the teachingsof alittle known ( actually unknown) rodmaker called Rumpole who starred ina TVseries about barristers. Many rodmakers have wives and partners whotheyadore , but who , from time to time do not quite seem "to understand ".Forexample SWMBO in my case considered it unreasonable of me to take thehallheater to the garage to use in my old wardrobe full of hanging bits ofbamboo.As you confirmed , an oil column heater would be ideal forheating astorage box for bamboo but SWMBO felt it should remain in the house toheatthe house in winter . Rumpole had a wife , who he adored , but did notquiteunderstand him . He therefore , very respectfully ,called her ..She WhoMustBe Obeyed " hence the initials SWMBO . In my example the heaterthereforeremained in the house . A year or so ago it was decided by the list members at that time that itcould be just a little dangerous to refer directly to wives and partners asthey might one day read this list and that could lead to some majormisunderstandings and trouble for a well meaning rodmaker. So theRumpoleinitials were adopted . ( Jean , you could use HWMBO ... but ladies tend tobe a little less relaxed about acknowledging the inevitible which usmalesopenly accept) Over time a few level three code words have developed . "the look" is thereaction one gets when a very logical , from a rodmakers perspective ,suggestion is made to SWMBO regarding matters such as : time spent atrodmaking , using wife's favourite dressmaking sizzors for cuttingmaterial ormachinery , spending every evening in the garage for two weeks , wastingtime on the computor talking about rodmaking instead of mowing thelawns (like now .. I should get "the look" at any minute now ) etc. listterm. Its use on this list indicates there are many different opinions onmost things to do with rodmaking and many contributors do not holdthemselves out as having all, or the only , answers. sorry about the bandwidth folks , now I had better go and mow the lawnsor Iwill be in big trouble with SWMBO regards Ian;When I suggested that abreviation be used(mostly to keep my own butt outofa sling) I thought that Carsten had originated that expression. I hadcompletely forgot about old Rumpole, thanks for reminding me, I liked thatseries. I think it is still on on some of the P.B.S. stations here, I willhave to look for it.(always provided that SWMBO is either in bed or on theinternet)John Channer from jczimny@dol.net Sat Oct 24 22:26:13 1998 Subject: Re: no more planing Just a bit. But, not any more noisy than a table saw and certainly not asloud as a router. One should wear ear protection. Thanks to Jim Reams I'mnot longer throwing trash all over the shop.John Z-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: no more planing hi john,I'ld like to know one thing about milling. Isn't it a bit noisy in a room?Michael John Zimny wrote: I'd be more than happy to share my experiences with a Bellinger mill ifanyone wouldlike to know about it. However, I've not been able to get a finishedquality strip outof it. What it does do, is give the maker a perfect triangular shape sothat finishplaning is a breeze. But unless you are going to make more than two orthree rods ofthe same length, it is not a great time saver. It is easier on the hands.John Terence Ackland wrote: Rich,I can only take the list in small doses which I think works well forall of us.I have just got back on the list and decided to let the builders knowwhat I havebeen up to. I was very excited and just wanted to tell the group. Icertainly didnot expect all the fuss when I refused to give details. I am a veryindependentbuilder and have always got the most pleasure out of finding my ownsolutions toproblems. I enjoy this more than the actual building of rods.It would not have crossed my mind to ask a builder the details of hisbevellerunless it was a commercial unit and it would only be to ask him if hewassatisfied with it.It was a big mistake, I just thought it would have been moreinteresting than homegrown cane. I know there are several very experienced builders outthere usingbevellers and it would have an interesting topic for discussion beforethechildren started screaming.Terry Rich Jezioro wrote: Terry,I am of your generation and age and I don't understand.Why did you post this information to the list after many months ofsilence?Surely you expected people to ask questions about your process.If not, what was your purpose in informing us of your new rodmakingprocess?Rich Jezioro At 08:28 PM 9/25/98 -0400, you wrote:Russ,all did was, was to refuse a very generous offer to share free whathas costme agood few thousand dollars to develop. What happens, I get attacked sharing.I have always been a socialist and do not mind 50% of my pay checkbeingtakenaway if it means that there is a social safety net in Canada and nochildrenhaveto live in beat up trailer 2 plots down.My social concience, I'm afraid, does not include a bunch ofrodmakingslackers.I am 51 years old and have spent more than I care to think about onrodmaking,money that should have gone into a retirement fund. I have had anaddedincentivein the fact that there have been many changes that do not look gooda theplace Iwork. I have been working so that when or if there is a layoff I canfallbackonthe rods. What would happen if you started building like me? Iwould be backtosquare oneYou guy of the me, me, me generation will not understand this. Waituntilyouaremy age and perhaps you'll understand.Terry Ackland Anachemrpo@aol.com wrote: Terry Ackland made the first bamboo rod I ever held or cast. Ifound it atthenow-defunct Orvis shop in Plattsburgh NY six or seven years ago. I was genuinely thrilled to have the chance to cast a bamboo flyrod. I hadbeen raised on spin fishing and plastic rods. The bamboo rod thatI heldthatday was the key to a new world of fishing for me. Now the illusion is cracked. The bitterness and smart-a** pomposity, the likes of which I hadyet to seeonany mailing list (at least by a regular member), reallydisappoints. So go ahead, flame me with one of your scathing responses Mr. A..You can'thurt me any more than the disappointment already has. Russ Lavigne *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@ /||/______/_||_________________________________________||/\/ \ > >/ \ > from saweiss@flash.net Sat Oct 24 22:33:10 1998 Subject: Turning Pro Several people who have seen and cast my first three rods have askedmehow much I charge for a rod. This is flattering and I am definitelyinterested in taking some orders.I'm curious about what others consider to be reasonable prices forwell-made rods from new and unknown makers.Steve from maxs@geocities.co.jp Sun Oct 25 04:09:11 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id TAA18122for; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 19:09:05 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Para 15 taper/Growing your own cane Jean Conelli wrote: Max Satoh wrote: Gentlemen,(deleted)max,gentlemen and LADIES TOO! please, thank you...jean Jean,To be ashamed, I haven't realized that you are a lady even when Ireceived above message. I just realized it by IANK's latest post. Iappologize it from my heart. max,do you give canerod lessons where you live?, would you teach afemale? just interested, as you seem to be a perfectionist.jean Jean,No, I do not give cane rod lessons yet. I'd like to in future if SWMBOaccepts it. Yes, I would teach a female then. I think myself is afeminist rather than a perfectionist. Any further question, pleaseoff list if it's not the one IMHO on rodmaking. Thanks for giving me alook. Sorry, list members for bandwidth. Max P.S. Ian, is this correct usage of level 3 code? -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from sjstill@iquest.net Sun Oct 25 07:12:45 1998 0000 (209.43.49.77) Subject: Rather odd question Hi All, Odd question this morning. Has anyone ever heard of someone having anallergy to bamboo? (I know there are addictions to it ) In allseriousness, I have had a persistant rash only on my left elbow and mywife(an R.N.) wonders if I might be allergic or something. (I personally thinkit started before the cane arrived, but have learned not to argue ) At any rate, if anyone has any ideas or thoughts, let me know. Itching in Indy, Steve Steve and Julie Stillabower, Indianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net from maxs@geocities.co.jp Sun Oct 25 07:32:00 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id WAA11663for; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 22:31:53 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Rather odd question Steve Stillabower wrote: Hi All, Odd question this morning. Has anyone ever heard of someone having anallergy to bamboo? (I know there are addictions to it ) In allseriousness, I have had a persistant rash only on my left elbow and mywife(an R.N.) wonders if I might be allergic or something. (I personally thinkit started before the cane arrived, but have learned not to argue ) At any rate, if anyone has any ideas or thoughts, let me know. Itching in Indy, Steve Steve and Julie Stillabower, Indianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net from rmoon@ida.net Sun Oct 25 07:43:07 1998 Subject: Re: Polishing an Old Rod Thank You Dave. I will give them a shotRalph from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sun Oct 25 07:53:35 1998 0600 Subject: Re: Turning Pro Steve,Jack Howell's book has a good section on turning pro, but I suspectyou'veread that. We do those who build for a living a great dis- service if wesell think if you build a good rod that will compete favorably with the pro'sthenyou should sell it for (materials cost + hourly wage for labor + additional$ compete at that price, then I shouldn't sell a rod at all.... To give theshort answer, about $1000. All IMHO,Harry Dr. Steven A. Weiss wrote: I'm curious about what others consider to be reasonable prices forwell-made rods from new and unknown makers.Steve from caneboy@xtn.net Sun Oct 25 08:17:03 1998 Subject: Rods Hello all,Can anyone suggest a list or site to advertise a couple of rods forsale? Thank you in advance! from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sun Oct 25 09:28:49 1998 Subject: Re: beginner's corner At 12:26 24/10/98 -0400, you wrote:Hello list .Should the exterior enamal on a culm be removed & at what point in theproceedings??TIA Brian S. Brian, The accepted method is to remove the enamel when the strip has beenplannedto about 0.030" oversize and after heat treatment. This however can andwill lead to some disappointment when the enamel is removed anddiscoloration/pitch/worm holes show up.So I - plane to about 0.050" oversize, remove enamel, restraighten, andthen plane to final then heat treat. If the enamel is removed prior to heattreating and problems occur, a new strip can be introduced withoutdifficulty. Don from hhholland@erols.com Sun Oct 25 10:39:46 1998 Subject: Re: Rods I, for one, don't see any problem with mentioning the rods here, BUTproviding your email address so all further contacts can be (and SHOULDbe)done off- list. What about it?Hank H. -----Original Message----- Subject: Rods Hello all,Can anyone suggest a list or site to advertise a couple of rods forsale? Thank you in advance! from hhholland@erols.com Sun Oct 25 10:42:44 1998 Subject: Re: Rather odd question Steve,Good question. I made custom knives for several years, and worked withlotsof exotic woods. I had no problems, but I know a few makers who hadallergic reactions (rashes) to certain woods. Cocobollo was a primeoffender, but I don't know if bamboo can cause the problem.Hank H. -----Original Message----- Subject: Rather odd question Hi All, Odd question this morning. Has anyone ever heard of someone having anallergy to bamboo? (I know there are addictions to it ) In allseriousness, I have had a persistant rash only on my left elbow and mywife(an R.N.) wonders if I might be allergic or something. (I personally thinkit started before the cane arrived, but have learned not to argue ) At any rate, if anyone has any ideas or thoughts, let me know. Itching in Indy, Steve Steve and Julie Stillabower, Indianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net from ragnarig@integrityol.com Sun Oct 25 10:55:13 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id AA1F3C50186; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 09:04:31 PDT Subject: Re: Polishing an Old Rod boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004A_01BDFFF4.D4D0D1C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01BDFFF4.D4D0D1C0 Sinclair makes the observation that Brownell's in part disolves andredistributes the old film, rather than just abrading it. Any comment? Dear Ralph When working in a gunshop some years ago I used these compounds more =than somewhat and found them to be well suited for oil and synthetic =finishes on gunstocks. I must admit, just the same, that I'd never = There is a process in french-polishing called "spiriting-off" which is =done after you build up numerous coats of shellac and then rub hard with =a pad (tampon -fr.) containing mostly ethanol (shine -ark.) which =achieves the exact effect mentioed above. This can happen mainly =because the pad has got a little bit of lac with which the standing =finish can mix when heat and alcohol are applied. If you are not =careful, and/or experienced, the end result can be just like one big =hasty coat of thick shellac. When trying to achieve this 'levelling effect" with these other types of =finishes, I've had numerous disappointments, and a few successes, but in =my experience this is a very hard thing to accomplish with any =consistency and I've got doubts about how much it happens when using a =high-speed wheel. If any finish is "redistributed" it gets distributed = Davy ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01BDFFF4.D4D0D1C0 comment? DearRalph When workingin a = some years ago I used these compounds more than somewhat and foundthem = just the same, that I'd never heard that they "redistributed" = There is a process in french-polishing called = which is done after you build up numerous coats of shellac and then rub = with a pad (tampon -fr.) containing mostly ethanol = mainly because the pad has got a little bit of lac with which the = and/or experienced, the end result can be just like one big hasty coat = shellac. When trying to achieve this 'levelling effect" with these = of finishes, I've had numerous disappointments, and a few successes, but = experience this is a very hard thing to accomplish with any consistency = got doubts about how much it happens when using a high-speed = finish is "redistributed" it gets distributed mostly to the = wheel or the back wall. Davy ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01BDFFF4.D4D0D1C0-- from stpete@netten.net Sun Oct 25 11:05:21 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA11656 for Subject: Dial Caliper V-Block Richard Tyree, Harry Boyd, and/or list, I finally got the V-block for my dial caliper from John Long. Is theresome tuning which I should do to the block prior to use? It looks like I could maybe take a fine blade and deepen the bottom ofthe 60* V to ensure that I'm reading the theoretical thickness based onthe sides rather than the apex. (Which is the whole point isn't it?) Should I fine tune the V with a triangular file? I don't want to getoff 'square', but a few light passes wouldn't hurt would it? Also, how do you guys read the actual depth? I thought I would subtract.200" to account for the thickness of the block, but in practice thatdoesn't always work out. Richard, I think there maybe several people who have this device thanksto your demo at SRG. What do you do to read it in the tenths place(.X00)? I might just get a second caliper to get the rough number anduse the V-block caliper to read the numbers as I get within .050" or so. Harry (or any of the others at SRG), did you get one of these? Whaddyathink? Rick Crenshaw from rcurry@top.monad.net Sun Oct 25 11:26:56 1998 Subject: Re: Rather odd question Steve wrote:Odd question this morning. Has anyone ever heard of someone having anallergy to bamboo? (I know there are addictions to it ) In allseriousness, I have had a persistant rash only on my left elbow and mywife(an R.N.) wonders if I might be allergic or something. (I personally thinkit started before the cane arrived, but have learned not to argue ) At any rate, if anyone has any ideas or thoughts, let me know.Steve, I have personally suffered from Iroko (my lungs couldn't handle thedust, really nasty). Bamboo didn't make the list, but it usually isn'tconsidered a wood.The following url has info on Dermatological effects of mostbotanicalspecies:http://www.uwcm.ac.uk/uwcm/dm/BoDD/MainIndex.htmlBest regards,Reed from ragnarig@integrityol.com Sun Oct 25 11:55:22 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A83A4020186; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 10:04:42 PDT Subject: Re: Turning Pro Steve,Jack Howell's book has a good section on turning pro, but I suspectyou'veread that. We do those who build for a living a great dis- service if wesell Ithink if you build a good rod that will compete favorably with the pro'sthenyou should sell it for (materials cost + hourly wage for labor + additional$ compete at that price, then I shouldn't sell a rod at all.... To give theshort answer, about $1000. All IMHO,Harry Dr. Steven A. Weiss wrote: I'm curious about what others consider to be reasonable pricesforwell-made rods from new and unknown makers.Steve Thanks, guys, for bringing up a subject that I feel very strongly about. Aguy (or gal) sho is starting out is obviously not going to get the sameprice as a master who has been making them steady for forty years. Neitheris he (or she) going to make a practice of selling them for less than anamount fairly representing the time and materials involved in theirmanufacture. I think a guy who is actually meant to build these things for a living willknow it. He will likely serve an appreticeship to a professional maker andhave a background in all the fundamentals (tools, finishes, using theequipment etc.) and not be an enthusiast, like myself, who has beenfumblingaround at it for most of his (or her :-) life. When someone approaches me, an avowed amateur, to make him a rod, Ireferhim to someone who is trying to make a living at it, and I supply namesandaddresses. When told that my rod will cost just as much as, or more than,one from an established commercial guy, they usually skulk off, theirdreamsof a $200 cane rod smashed. On the rare occasions when they call mybluffit gives me a tremendous ego boost and a good chunk of change to promotemyhobby, which is by now just about self-sustaining. Of course this means that I make a dam site more than I sell but thatgivesme lots of material for experimentation (some of the sections I've madehavebeen parts of three or four rods over a twenty-year period) and thewherewithal to tickle the socks off the occasional neice or nephew comeChristmastime. Owing to my particular ethnic group, I've got hundreds ofprospective customers there :-) Davy from RMargiotta@aol.com Sun Oct 25 12:22:49 1998 Subject: Re: Polishing an Old Rod To All: I believe Sinclair's "redistributing" reference is for Brownell's Triple Fcompound. I think it may have kerosene in it and if you use steel wool (asSinclair suggests), the old finish should dissolve slightly (probably trueforonly spar varnishes, not urethanes). I've only used it on new spar varnishfinishes and haven't noticed any real redistribution of the finish -- it doespolish OK, though. The Five F compund appears to me to be automotivepolishand needs heavy rubbing if you do it by hand. --Rich from saltwein@swbell.net Sun Oct 25 12:47:23 1998 gw3adm.rcsntx.swbell.net MAA08431 Subject: Leonard 8'-6" Here are the measurements for the Leonard that I gotaccess to yesterday. It is a beautiful blonde rod withred wraps, black guides, cigar grip that is 9- 1/2"including the downlocking reel seat. Only markings onthe rod are H.L. Leonard maker with logo on butt cap. It is an 8'-6", 3pc that is purported to be a 5wt. Thevarnish, which is in excellent condition, would appear tobe .006 (untrained eye). Point Measurement 1" .0705 .08410 .10015 .11520 .127 25 .13230 .15035-1/2 .17540 .19445 .20650 .21554-1/2 .22160 .23265 .24670- 5/8 .26475 .27680 .28885 .29290 .32091-1/2 .370 (just before hookkeeper wrap) Tip #2 Point Measurement 1" .0765 .08210 .10015 .11920 .13425-3/8 .14629-7/8 .156 Guides: 4-1/4,9,14,19-1/2, 25,30-1/2,(ferrule joint 34")35-3/4,42-1/8,48- 5/8, 55-1/8,62-1/8, (ferrule joint67-11/2") 70-3/4, stripper 79-1/8 If anyone knows anything about this particular rod I would appreciateany info you have. In measuring this rod I was suprised at how closeall of the stations were. It was dead on at three places and within oneor two thousandths at the rest, I believe only two stations needed anyreal extrapolation. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sun Oct 25 13:24:48 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Rather odd question I haven't heard of a bamboo allergy but wood allergies are very common(especially woods like cocobolo, ebony, etc.). Sounds possible. George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Rather odd question Hi All, Odd question this morning. Has anyone ever heard of someone having anallergy to bamboo? (I know there are addictions to it ) In allseriousness, I have had a persistant rash only on my left elbow and mywife(an R.N.) wonders if I might be allergic or something. (I personally thinkit started before the cane arrived, but have learned not to argue ) At any rate, if anyone has any ideas or thoughts, let me know. Itching in Indy, Steve Steve and Julie Stillabower, Indianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net from fritzwiese@webtv.net Sun Oct 25 13:35:53 1998 mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP idLAA21285; 111.iap.bryant.webtv.net(8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id LAA12657; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 11:35:50 -0800 ETAtAhUAjYkn/6sGbFbYnEpxUKENzCxG1VMCFGSp2P0BC7paIu++U1pb679ZcIZ3 Subject: Rather Odd Question Not unusual at all. The Nautical Research Guild has published severalarticles on this very subject. Museum quality models are not painted,but use different colored woods for the effect. Hundreds of species ofRosewood from Africa and S. Amer. are risky, but the all time worst isMacassar and Gaboon Ebony. The black dust from sanding and sawing islike black soot and can be lethal.Several modelers have reported skin rashes after handling exotic woods.One of our finest modelers, Portia Takajanian died of this very thingfour years ago from jczimny@dol.net Sun Oct 25 13:48:56 1998 Subject: Re: Polishing an Old Rod No known resin varnish using Alkyd,Phenolic, Urea Formaldehyde, orpolyurethane resins in a drying oil/reducer mix can be dissolved byconventional solvents, ie. petroleum distillates etc. I think that what weall know as varnish is often confused with evaporative finishes such aslaquer or shellac. Varnish polymerizes. It cures into something else. Thatincludes old- time spars (phenolic resins), which, by the way are not so oldtime, as well as polyrethanes. Unlike the evaporative finishes, varnishescan only be desolved by highly reactive solvents such as methyleneChlorideor a mild acid formulation. John -----Original From:RMargiotta@aol.com Subject: Re: Polishing an Old Rod To All: I believe Sinclair's "redistributing" reference is for Brownell's Triple Fcompound. I think it may have kerosene in it and if you use steel wool (asSinclair suggests), the old finish should dissolve slightly (probably trueforonly spar varnishes, not urethanes). I've only used it on new spar varnishfinishes and haven't noticed any real redistribution of the finish -- itdoespolish OK, though. The Five F compund appears to me to be automotivepolishand needs heavy rubbing if you do it by hand. --Rich from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Sun Oct 25 14:39:48 1998 ; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 09:39:43 +1300 Subject: Re: beginner's corner Brian , Don I have gone along the same route of finding worm holes at the final stageofremoval of the enamel just prior to glueing up or final planning anddeciding to remove the enamel prior to heat treating . In my case a newproblem then emerged. The cane had a different shade of brown along thestrip , particually in the tip . The thinner the section of cane is thedarker the shade. ( actually this is not a new problem , I have now noticedseveral of the old Hardy and other English rods I have collected have asimilar feature) I suspect that this may be influenced by the type of oven used. I use a heatgun powered oven which , IMHO , is a little more sensative and tricky tousethen a conventional oven. The fact that the hot air is moving rather thenstill means it it dries (and burns) cane faster then a still air oven andyou need to use less then the normally Quoted heating times and/ortemperatures . (Someone did provide a technical explanation with longwordsto explain why some time ago ) I am sure that with some experimentation with cane thickness , heatingtimes, turning the cane ,and charcoal making , etc you could work out how toovercome this problem in a heat gun oven but I have gone back to heattreating the rough planned strips of even thickness , and making a coupleofspare strips each time to provide for any problems which emerge when theenamel is taken off. Incidently , I follow the advice in Jack Howells book and remove theenameland sand the nodes before final planning . I found that I had realdifficulty in getting the right taper at node points otherwise due to nodesnot always being perfectly flat. regards IankAt 09:06 AM 25/10/98, you wrote:At 12:26 24/10/98 -0400, you wrote:Hello list .Should the exterior enamal on a culm be removed & at what point intheproceedings??TIA Brian S. Brian, The accepted method is to remove the enamel when the strip has beenplannedto about 0.030" oversize and after heat treatment. This however can andwill lead to some disappointment when the enamel is removed anddiscoloration/pitch/worm holes show up.So I - plane to about 0.050" oversize, remove enamel, restraighten, andthen plane to final then heat treat. If the enamel is removed prior to heattreating and problems occur, a new strip can be introduced withoutdifficulty. Don Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Oct 25 16:07:48 1998 Subject: Re: Dial Caliper V-Block Rick Yes you can and should tune the "V" block. John's instructionusing the drill rod or calibration rod is correct. but there is nothing wrong about relieving the bottom of the gauge's V block. The value for settingthe dial to "zeroize" it is relative. If you want to tune it so you don't need to use the drill rod and just put it on and close it and zeroize it then you must gently file the top slot where the jaw of the slides in so it is evenwiththe bottom of the V. Chris On Sun, 25 Oct 1998 11:02:03 -0600, Rick Crenshaw wrote: Richard Tyree, Harry Boyd, and/or list, I finally got the V-block for my dial caliper from John Long. Is theresome tuning which I should do to the block prior to use? It looks like I could maybe take a fine blade and deepen the bottom ofthe 60* V to ensure that I'm reading the theoretical thickness based onthe sides rather than the apex. (Which is the whole point isn't it?) Should I fine tune the V with a triangular file? I don't want to getoff 'square', but a few light passes wouldn't hurt would it? Also, how do you guys read the actual depth? I thought I would subtract.200" to account for the thickness of the block, but in practice thatdoesn't always work out. Richard, I think there maybe several people who have this device thanksto your demo at SRG. What do you do to read it in the tenths place(.X00)? I might just get a second caliper to get the rough number anduse the V-block caliper to read the numbers as I get within .050" or so. Harry (or any of the others at SRG), did you get one of these? Whaddyathink? Rick Crenshaw Regards Chris from channer@hubwest.com Sun Oct 25 16:13:49 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A3031F70114; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 15:15:31 MDT Subject: Re: Turning Pro At 07:51 AM 10/25/98 -0600, you wrote:Steve,Jack Howell's book has a good section on turning pro, but I suspectyou'veread that. We do those who build for a living a great dis-service if wesell Ithink if you build a good rod that will compete favorably with the pro'sthenyou should sell it for (materials cost + hourly wage for labor + additional$ compete at that price, then I shouldn't sell a rod at all.... To give theshort answer, about $1000. All IMHO,Harry Dr. Steven A. Weiss wrote: I'm curious about what others consider to be reasonable prices forwell-made rods from new and unknown makers.Steve Harry and Steve;As a carpenter, I tend to look at it from an apprentice, journeyman, masterpoint of view. These days, an apprentice is entitled to payment for hiswork, but not as much as a journeyman. Master's in the building trades areforeman of the crew and get paid more yet. I think that thequality(including how the rod actually casts) should determine the price. Idon't particularly care how much experience a maker has, if he turns outjunk it is not worth as much as a talented, careful builder's 2nd or 3rd ormaybe even 1st rod. In my line of work I have known guys who could do afine job on trim in their first year and other guys that have been in thetrade for 40 years that I wouldn't have build my dog a house. IMHOJohn Channer from ljrp@penn.com Sun Oct 25 16:14:41 1998 Subject: Re: my demise &Tom & Gerri from Central Pa (Isn't that a cartoon????????) All are glad you are alive andwell........we need you guys.Tom Morgan & Gerri Carlson wrote: Hi everyone, My demise is certainly news to me and I might add unwelcome news atthat. There must be some confusion with my name and Tom Maxwell. I'malive and well in Montana and expect to see many more summers comeandgo. Best wishes to all,Tom Morgan from channer@hubwest.com Sun Oct 25 16:16:34 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A3A52020114; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 15:18:13 MDT Subject: Re: beginner's corner At 09:39 AM 10/26/98 +1300, you wrote:Brian , Don I have gone along the same route of finding worm holes at the final stageofremoval of the enamel just prior to glueing up or final planning anddeciding to remove the enamel prior to heat treating . In my case a newproblem then emerged. The cane had a different shade of brown along thestrip , particually in the tip . The thinner the section of cane is thedarker the shade. ( actually this is not a new problem , I have now noticedseveral of the old Hardy and other English rods I have collected have asimilar feature) I suspect that this may be influenced by the type of oven used. I use aheatgun powered oven which , IMHO , is a little more sensative and tricky tousethen a conventional oven. The fact that the hot air is moving rather thenstill means it it dries (and burns) cane faster then a still air oven andyou need to use less then the normally Quoted heating times and/ortemperatures . (Someone did provide a technical explanation with longwordsto explain why some time ago ) I am sure that with some experimentation with cane thickness , heatingtimes, turning the cane ,and charcoal making , etc you could work out how toovercome this problem in a heat gun oven but I have gone back to heattreating the rough planned strips of even thickness , and making a coupleofspare strips each time to provide for any problems which emerge whentheenamel is taken off. Incidently , I follow the advice in Jack Howells book and remove theenameland sand the nodes before final planning . I found that I had realdifficulty in getting the right taper at node points otherwise due to nodesnot always being perfectly flat. regards Iank Iank;I'll second that John Channer from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Oct 25 17:43:38 1998 Mon, 26 Oct 1998 07:43:25 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Rather odd question On Sun, 25 Oct 1998, Steve Stillabower wrote: Hi All, Odd question this morning. Has anyone ever heard of someone having anallergy to bamboo? (I know there are addictions to it ) In allseriousness, I have had a persistant rash only on my left elbow and mywife(an R.N.) wonders if I might be allergic or something. (I personally thinkit started before the cane arrived, but have learned not to argue ) At any rate, if anyone has any ideas or thoughts, let me know. Itching in Indy, Dear Itchy in Indy,It sounds like you are particually sensitive to the silica in the bamboo?I know the itchy feeling you get when you lie on grass is from the silica in it and bamboo is just grass. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Oct 25 17:50:41 1998 Mon, 26 Oct 1998 07:50:35 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Driggs vs. Force On Fri, 23 Oct 1998, Joseph S.Kallo wrote: Hello all,Well none of my components arrived today so in a fit oflack-of- rodmaking-stuff-to-do I have started looking at tapers for #2. Iamconsidering a parabolic rod. In particular I am looking at the PayneDriggsand Wayne's Force. I am leaning toward The Force as I'd like a bitlonger/heavier stick to fish the nearby Devil's Kitchen lake (the one withthe bannana/palomino trout), but the reports I've read in the archivesconcerning the Driggs make it out to be a sort of magic wand. For thisrodI am looking for something which will get line out a pretty gooddistance--the lake drops off quickly and I am often forced to fish only afew steps from shore. Any suggestions? JoeThe two rods are quite different in that "The Force" being 8' sounds the better rod for your intended use. The Driggs really is a great taper but I think the Driggs is ideal for small to medium streams where the need IMHO the Driggs is the nicer rod to cast however. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from sats@gte.net Sun Oct 25 18:30:10 1998 Subject: Re: In Need of Help! A friend has asked what weight line should be used with a True TemperNo. C10-9'Senoa (pardon the expression) steel fly rod. I haven't a clue! I believe I picked up one of those from a flea Market. I ended up using aWF7. I didn't want to go heavier then that. My dad owned one. Boy are they a bear to cast! I've got to try it outfishingsometime. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from bacon@idt.net Sun Oct 25 18:49:25 1998 Subject: Re: Sorry to have to use list space, but ... George W. Barnes wrote: Tried to answer your off line question but mail returned. Will try againif you reforward your address.George Barnesgwbarnes@gwi.netgeorge,my address is bacon@idt.net thanks, nurse jean ratchet from jkallo@midwest.net Sun Oct 25 19:30:49 1998 Subject: Re: Driggs vs. Force Thanks Tony. I think I've dropped the whole idea of a parabolic rod as Ithink this one is going to be a Christmas present for my brother. He is newto f- fishing and I think I nice fast taper will suit him best--I'm thinkingabout the Thomas rod listed in the taper archive. Anyway, I think I am going to use your components for this one. I think itwould be pretty cool to have some of the rod's components come from amakerthat I am actually familiar with rather than the deep unknown recesses ofsome supply company. How long a span of time do you think lies betweenmetelling you I want some ferrules and a reel seat and me receiving them?I'll pay by credit c. to expidite things (actually I can't think of anyother possibility than sending cash). I guess what I really want to see ifyou know is how long it takes to ship something from Aus. to the US? One other thing. On the reelseats you list the two metals available asaluminum and bronze; is the bronze gold/brassy color? I think I am goingtogo with the sliding band seat in bronze. I am not sure about the wood,butthat She Oak looks quite good. Let me know about the time frame andI'llget back on the exact specs for my order. Best,JoeAt 07:50 AM 10/26/98 +0800, you wrote:On Fri, 23 Oct 1998, Joseph S.Kallo wrote: Hello all,Well none of my components arrived today so in a fit oflack-of- rodmaking-stuff-to-do I have started looking at tapers for #2.I amconsidering a parabolic rod. In particular I am looking at the PayneDriggsand Wayne's Force. I am leaning toward The Force as I'd like a bitlonger/heavier stick to fish the nearby Devil's Kitchen lake (the onewiththe bannana/palomino trout), but the reports I've read in the archivesconcerning the Driggs make it out to be a sort of magic wand. For thisrodI am looking for something which will get line out a pretty gooddistance--the lake drops off quickly and I am often forced to fish only afew steps from shore. Any suggestions? JoeThe two rods are quite different in that "The Force" being 8' sounds the better rod for your intended use. The Driggs really is a great taper but I think the Driggs is ideal for small to medium streams where the need IMHO the Driggs is the nicer rod to cast however. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from maxs@geocities.co.jp Sun Oct 25 20:10:02 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id LAA09213for; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 11:09:57 +0900 (JST) Subject: Dennis Bertram Dennis,Your mail address via off list was denied by mail-Deamon. My responseto you returned.Please contact me again.Sorry for bandwidth.-- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from jkallo@midwest.net Sun Oct 25 20:39:35 1998 Subject: Re: Driggs vs. Force Damn that reply button. Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Mon Oct 26 07:40:34 1998 Subject: Re: beginner's corner At 09:39 26/10/98 +1300, you wrote:Brian , Don I have gone along the same route of finding worm holes at the final stageofremoval of the enamel just prior to glueing up or final planning anddeciding to remove the enamel prior to heat treating . In my case a newproblem then emerged. The cane had a different shade of brown along thestrip , particually in the tip . The thinner the section of cane is thedarker the shade. ( actually this is not a new problem , I have now noticedseveral of the old Hardy and other English rods I have collected have asimilar feature) Ian, You troubles with heat treatment mirrors my own for a number of years. Ifinally bit the bullet and built a convection oven that doesn't allow thecane to see radiant heat and all the air surrounding the cane ishomogenous. There are no cold or hot spots. Most other ovens types rely onthe oven operator to flip the strips, do some type of heat manipulation,change heating element locations or whatever to allow the cane to besubjected to the same temperature. I ruined/or bad color changes on anumber of strips until I started to use this oven. No problem since. Acomplete description is available on the Rodmakers Home page. Don I suspect that this may be influenced by the type of oven used. I use aheatgun powered oven which , IMHO , is a little more sensative and tricky tousethen a conventional oven. The fact that the hot air is moving rather thenstill means it it dries (and burns) cane faster then a still air oven andyou need to use less then the normally Quoted heating times and/ortemperatures . (Someone did provide a technical explanation with longwordsto explain why some time ago ) I am sure that with some experimentation with cane thickness , heatingtimes, turning the cane ,and charcoal making , etc you could work out how toovercome this problem in a heat gun oven but I have gone back to heattreating the rough planned strips of even thickness , and making a coupleofspare strips each time to provide for any problems which emerge whentheenamel is taken off. Incidently , I follow the advice in Jack Howells book and remove theenameland sand the nodes before final planning . I found that I had realdifficulty in getting the right taper at node points otherwise due to nodesnot always being perfectly flat. regards IankAt 09:06 AM 25/10/98, you wrote:At 12:26 24/10/98 -0400, you wrote:Hello list .Should the exterior enamal on a culm be removed & at what point intheproceedings??TIA Brian S. Brian, The accepted method is to remove the enamel when the strip has beenplannedto about 0.030" oversize and after heat treatment. This however can andwill lead to some disappointment when the enamel is removed anddiscoloration/pitch/worm holes show up.So I - plane to about 0.050" oversize, remove enamel, restraighten, andthen plane to final then heat treat. If the enamel is removed prior toheattreating and problems occur, a new strip can be introduced withoutdifficulty. Don Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Mon Oct 26 07:46:25 1998 Subject: Re:Leoard DF 50 Harry, Riped the house apart - so sign of the lenoard rod graph. Sorry. Don from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Mon Oct 26 08:17:04 1998 JAA03657 Subject: RE: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine This is what I also heard, but it was Tom Maxwell. I went to the EveningHatch a few weeks ago to discuss having Tom build me a rod, of coursewhichI really needed and found out he passed away in late August. We will allmiss him, but I suppose the next Payne/Garrison/Morgan is now buildingrodssomewhere in their home.Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, October 24, 1998 8:52 AM Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine My local Orvis shop said the current delay with this issueis because TomMorgan passed away and they are doing a commemorative issueon him. He said hehad called the mag ant that is what they told him.Rich Jezioro At 05:54 PM 10/23/98 -0700, you wrote:Has anyone seen the latest issue of the BFR Magazine thatwas due out 2 months ago (editor delays), 1 month ago (copy boy forgot todeliver to printers), 2 weeks ago (printing problems), 1 week ago(distribution problems). It will be out next week.....Or is the postalservice going on strike! Sorry for the ranting...I look for the damn thing like akid looking for the Christmas Catalogs. ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ /||/ ______/_||_________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Mon Oct 26 08:17:11 1998 JAA15514 Subject: RE: Polishing an Old Rod Thanks. Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, October 23, 1998 12:09 PM Subject: Polishing an Old Rod Getting back into it. Have an old 9ft Leonard, very blonde,red wraps,white agate stripper, english snake guides. Know its fromthe twenties,but have no idea what model it might be. Needed polishingso used thelists suggestion to use auto polishing compound.Found turtle wax polishing compound for clear coat finishes.Appears tobe much finer than regular white compound. Twenty minuteslater itreally shines. Removes all the tiny scratch marks. from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Mon Oct 26 08:17:20 1998 JAA15537 Subject: RE: George Harvey Leaders Was: Hook-keeper rings from who??? Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, October 23, 1998 1:38 PM Subject: Re: George Harvey Leaders Was: Hook-keeperrings Book is " George Harvey: Memories Patterns and Tactics" Istated softcover it is hardcover and a limited edition no soft cover!!Will be outin two weeks Limited out in 3-4 weeks Guysflys@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 10/23/98 12:49:37 PM Eastern DaylightTime,mdell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca writes: "Techniques of Trout Fishing and Fly Tying"ISBN 1-55821-068-7ISBN 1- 55821-074-1 (pbk) from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Mon Oct 26 08:17:27 1998 JAA15571 Subject: RE: Hand-rubbed finishes Rich, thanks off to auto supply! Will let you know results!!!!!Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, October 23, 1998 8:32 AM Subject: Re: Hand-rubbed finishes Al: You should probably clean the shaft with mineral spirits ornaptha (preferablynaptha -- it's a better cleaner for oils) and a lint freecloth like painter'sclothes or good cheesecloth. That should get rid of thehaze but if you stopat rottenstone you'll have a "satin" finish, which someprefer. If you wantgloss, you need to rub again with some automotive polishingcompound. --Rich from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Mon Oct 26 08:19:50 1998 JAA04242 Subject: RE: Tonkin supplier Please e:mail me also. Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, October 24, 1998 10:38 AM Subject: Re: Tonkin supplier This is Charles H DEMAREST,INC P.O.BOX 238 BLOOMINGDALEN.J. 07403We have specialized in importing TONKIN CANE forrodmakers since thenineteen twenties. Please provide your mail adress and wewill maildetails, Cordially Harold Demarest from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Mon Oct 26 08:20:15 1998 JAA04353 Subject: RE: George Harvey Leaders Was: & New Book Can any one advise me where I can order the limited edition Harvey bookfrom???? Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, October 23, 1998 1:01 PM Subject: Re: George Harvey Leaders Was: & New Book Soon to be published book on the life and adventures ofGeorge Harvey, he is80 plus years and a wonderful person; still ties the finestdry flies I haveever seen. Book is in soft cover and a limited edition,can't wait to getmine. PS his leaders are great!! Best Dick Fogel fromCentral Pa. Michael Dell wrote: You can find a George Harvey leader in this article onVFS: http://www.flyshop.com/Tactics/01-97Leaders/index.html The formulas are also published in George Harvery's book(I can't rememberthe title) and Joe Humprhrey's book Trout Tactics. Michael MICHAEL DELL email:mdell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca http://www.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/trout from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Mon Oct 26 08:20:17 1998 JAA04375 Subject: RE: Polishing an Old Rod I can not find any sporting store in Pa, NJ or NY. That carries this.Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, October 23, 1998 2:54 PM Subject: Re: Polishing an Old Rod Michael Sinclair suggests using Brownell's polishingcompounds. I haveonly used rottenstone and automotive polishers. Anyone everusedBrownell's? How does it compare?Ralph from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Mon Oct 26 08:20:18 1998 JAA04377 Subject: RE: Hand-rubbed finishes Using mineral spirits! Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, October 24, 1998 9:28 PM Subject: Re: Hand-rubbed finishes Al, are you rubbing the rottenstone using water or oil. Tryusing oil insteadof water and see if you don't get more of a sheen. Alsowhen done use mineralspirits to remove haze.Bret from FlyTyr@southshore.com Mon Oct 26 08:42:48 1998 (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA29745 for ;Mon, 26 Oct1998 08:43:05 - 0600 Subject: Re: George Harvey Leaders Was: & New Book Try Anglers Art, 1-800-848-1020. Getting ready to call them now.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Hanzich, Al (MLPT) wrote: Can any one advise me where I can order the limited edition Harvey bookfrom???? Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, October 23, 1998 1:01 PM Subject: Re: George Harvey Leaders Was: & New Book Soon to be published book on the life and adventures ofGeorge Harvey, he is80 plus years and a wonderful person; still ties the finestdry flies I haveever seen. Book is in soft cover and a limited edition,can't wait to getmine. PS his leaders are great!! Best Dick Fogel fromCentral Pa. Michael Dell wrote: You can find a George Harvey leader in this article onVFS: http://www.flyshop.com/Tactics/01-97Leaders/index.html The formulas are also published in George Harvery's book(I can't rememberthe title) and Joe Humprhrey's book Trout Tactics. Michael MICHAEL DELL email:mdell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca http://www.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/trout from fr.keulen@wxs.nl Mon Oct 26 08:54:28 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA40A5 +0100 Subject: Re: beginner's corner john channer wrote: At 09:39 AM 10/26/98 +1300, you wrote:Brian , Don I have gone along the same route of finding worm holes at the finalstage ofremoval of the enamel just prior to glueing up or final planning anddeciding to remove the enamel prior to heat treating . In my case a newproblem then emerged. The cane had a different shade of brown alongthestrip , particually in the tip . The thinner the section of cane is thedarker the shade. ( actually this is not a new problem , I have nownoticedseveral of the old Hardy and other English rods I have collected have asimilar feature) I suspect that this may be influenced by the type of oven used. I use aheatgun powered oven which , IMHO , is a little more sensative and tricky tousethen a conventional oven. The fact that the hot air is moving rather thenstill means it it dries (and burns) cane faster then a still air oven andyou need to use less then the normally Quoted heating times and/ortemperatures . (Someone did provide a technical explanation with longwordsto explain why some time ago ) I am sure that with some experimentation with cane thickness , heatingtimes, turning the cane ,and charcoal making , etc you could work out how toovercome this problem in a heat gun oven but I have gone back to heattreating the rough planned strips of even thickness , and making acouple ofspare strips each time to provide for any problems which emerge whentheenamel is taken off. Incidently , I follow the advice in Jack Howells book and remove theenameland sand the nodes before final planning . I found that I had realdifficulty in getting the right taper at node points otherwise due tonodesnot always being perfectly flat. regards Iank Iank; Fellow builders, I recognize the problem with uneven colouration of the cane after havingbakedthe strips in a heat gun powered oven. I tried to avoid the problem bypulling uponly the tips of the cane cane after being in the oven for 20 minutes. Thisseemsto work. Rens Oosthoek from ljrp@penn.com Mon Oct 26 08:58:18 1998 Subject: Re: George Harvey Leaders Was: & New Book Fly Fishers Paradise, State College Pa price is 79.95 edition of 325 tellthemDick sent you. I have no financial interest just a lot of respect for George.Phone No of Store is 814 234 4189 Hanzich, Al (MLPT) wrote: Can any one advise me where I can order the limited edition Harvey bookfrom???? Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, October 23, 1998 1:01 PM Subject: Re: George Harvey Leaders Was: & New Book Soon to be published book on the life and adventures ofGeorge Harvey, he is80 plus years and a wonderful person; still ties the finestdry flies I haveever seen. Book is in soft cover and a limited edition,can't wait to getmine. PS his leaders are great!! Best Dick Fogel fromCentral Pa. Michael Dell wrote: You can find a George Harvey leader in this article onVFS: http://www.flyshop.com/Tactics/01-97Leaders/index.html The formulas are also published in George Harvery's book(I can't rememberthe title) and Joe Humprhrey's book Trout Tactics. Michael MICHAEL DELL email:mdell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca http://www.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/trout from jfoster@gte.net Mon Oct 26 09:45:30 1998 Subject: Re: Rather odd question Hi Reed sure am glad you didn't excape from the list.. jerry from Guysflys@aol.com Mon Oct 26 10:08:44 1998 Subject: Re: George Harvey Leaders Was: & New Book Flyfisher's Paradise2603 E. College AveState College, PA814-324-4189814- 238-3686 fax from ljrp@penn.com Mon Oct 26 10:39:46 1998 Subject: Re: George Harvey Leaders Was: & New Book Good thought; I would imagine Barry is going to have them also Tony Spezio wrote: Try Anglers Art, 1-800-848-1020. Getting ready to call them now.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Hanzich, Al (MLPT) wrote: Can any one advise me where I can order the limited edition Harveybookfrom???? Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, October 23, 1998 1:01 PM Subject: Re: George Harvey Leaders Was: & New Book Soon to be published book on the life and adventures ofGeorge Harvey, he is80 plus years and a wonderful person; still ties the finestdry flies I haveever seen. Book is in soft cover and a limited edition,can't wait to getmine. PS his leaders are great!! Best Dick Fogel fromCentral Pa. Michael Dell wrote: You can find a George Harvey leader in this article onVFS: http://www.flyshop.com/Tactics/01-97Leaders/index.html The formulas are also published in George Harvery's book(I can't rememberthe title) and Joe Humprhrey's book Trout Tactics. Michael MICHAEL DELL email:mdell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca http://www.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/trout from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Mon Oct 26 11:53:34 1998 ; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 06:53:27 +1300 Subject: Re: beginner's corner At 03:49 PM 26/10/98 +0100, you wrote: Iank; Fellow builders, I recognize the problem with uneven colouration of the cane after havingbakedthe strips in a heat gun powered oven. I tried to avoid the problem bypulling uponly the tips of the cane cane after being in the oven for 20 minutes. Thisseemsto work. Rens Oosthoek Wow Rens , Mine start to turn to charcoal after 10 minutes in the tube. I use 7minuteson untapered cane and turn at 3 1/2 minutes to get a medium tan colour. My thermometer ( a candy thermometer which may not be precise) shows325degrees. I suppose it merely indicates that differences in guns , dimensions , etcwill produce different results and it takes a certain amount ofexperimentation to achieve a consistant result for ones own setup. IankIan Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz from CALucker@aol.com Mon Oct 26 12:49:17 1998 Subject: Re: glue / adhesive poll ? In a message dated 10/22/98 9:07:18 PM Pacific Standard Time,chris@artistree.com writes: Then don't leave your rod in the car for God's sake. It doen't matter howhigh a temp your glue can take if the varnish can't take the same temp,right?Chris from FlyTyr@southshore.com Mon Oct 26 13:23:15 1998 natco.southshore.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA02296 for; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 13:23:33 -0600 Subject: Re: George Harvey Leaders Was: & New Book They will be in about three weeks.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Dick Fogel wrote: Good thought; I would imagine Barry is going to have them also Tony Spezio wrote: Try Anglers Art, 1-800-848-1020. Getting ready to call them now.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Hanzich, Al (MLPT) wrote: Can any one advise me where I can order the limited edition Harveybookfrom???? Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, October 23, 1998 1:01 PM Subject: Re: George Harvey Leaders Was: & New Book Soon to be published book on the life and adventures ofGeorge Harvey, he is80 plus years and a wonderful person; still ties the finestdry flies I haveever seen. Book is in soft cover and a limited edition,can't wait to getmine. PS his leaders are great!! Best Dick Fogel fromCentral Pa. Michael Dell wrote: You can find a George Harvey leader in this article onVFS: http://www.flyshop.com/Tactics/01-97Leaders/index.html The formulas are also published in George Harvery's book(I can't rememberthe title) and Joe Humprhrey's book Trout Tactics. Michael MICHAEL DELL email:mdell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca http://www.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/trout from CALucker@aol.com Mon Oct 26 13:27:24 1998 Subject: Re: Delay of Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine In a message dated 10/24/98 4:49:07 AM Pacific Standard Time,richjez@enteract.com writes: Well at least that's a new excuse. I only hope that they wait until afterMr.Morgan passes away before publishing the issue. And, I'm sure that nayonewhohas ever met Mr. Morgan will share the sentiment that I hope that specialissue won't be due out for many many more years to come. I bought a two year subscription to the Bamboo magazine (I forgot thenamebecause it has been so long since I have seen an issue.) Little did I knowthat I was purchasing what may turn out to be a lifetime subscription. I create, and coordinate production of printed materials ship and and mailonextremely tight timeframes (political campaigns -- election day is a realdeadline). I cannot imagine anyone having so many problems. Chris Lucker from tdwill@stlmsd.com Mon Oct 26 13:53:52 1998 with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 13:55:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Rods NAA13536 Got to the Market place at www.flyshop.com. All postings are free untilNov1 from MICK@welfen-netz.com Mon Oct 26 14:47:43 1998 [195.143.56.1]with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Mon,26 Oct 199821:46:04 +0100 Subject: Re: beginner's corner F. Keulen wrote: john channer wrote: At 09:39 AM 10/26/98 +1300, you wrote:Brian , Don spare strips each time to provide for any problems which emergewhen theenamel is taken off. Incidently , I follow the advice in Jack Howells book and remove theenameland sand the nodes before final planning . I found that I had realdifficulty in getting the right taper at node points otherwise due tonodesnot always being perfectly flat. regards Iank Iank; Fellow builders, I recognize the problem with uneven colouration of the cane after havingbakedthe strips in a heat gun powered oven. I tried to avoid the problem bypullinguponly the tips of the cane cane after being in the oven for 20 minutes.Thisseemsto work. Rens Oosthoek Hi List,I wrap the bamboo strip with rockwool prior to heat treatment. Rockwoolfibresdistributes the heatalong the strips so I get strips that are (almost) perfectly coloured.tight linesMichael from chris@artistree.com Mon Oct 26 15:03:32 1998 NAA13743 Subject: Varnish Temp (was: glue/adhesive poll?) Well now, that brings up yet another question. The Poly varnish I useseems to handle that temp. O.K. Doesn't seem to soften or anything.What's your take on this Jimmy? As for not leaving the rod in the car...well, I do worry about worsecase scenarios and like to purposely mistreat my rods. Past rod testinghas included: 1) Being left in car for many days in SW Utah as well as Death Valley(BTW, there's not much fishing there)2) Dragged through miles of blackberry bushes in Oregon (wish my wadershad held up as well)3) Watching beginner fly fishers yank weighted streamers out of trees("yank" is putting it nicely, more like "rip!")4) Watching beginner fly fishers reel-in water-logged branches (to savea $1.50 fly)5) Hooking an occasional bat while night fishing (seem to be the onlything biting at the time)6) Chasing off raccoons & occasional skunk raiding the garbage atcampsite (No!...my rods aren't "broomsticks")7) Beating a path through the graphite guys on opening day :) Best Regards,Chris Wohlford CALucker@aol.com wrote: Then don't leave your rod in the car for God's sake. It doen't matter howhigh a temp your glue can take if the varnish can't take the same temp,right?Chris In a message dated 10/22/98 9:07:18 PM Pacific Standard Time,chris@artistree.com writes: insideof a car. Can the Epon or other types of epoxy used in building rodshandlethiskind of temperature?-- from dellc@nextdim.com Mon Oct 26 15:09:04 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A1E489440154; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 12:56:04 PDT Subject: Re: Delay of Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine Hi all, I too have not recieved my issue of "Bamboo Flyrod", but in todaysmail there was a subscription application. I also noticed that the rateshave gone up with no reduction for long term suscriptions. With all thedelays should I renew?Dell Coppock-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Delay of Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine In a message dated 10/24/98 4:49:07 AM Pacific Standard Time,richjez@enteract.com writes: Morgan passed away and they are doing a commemorative issue on him. Well at least that's a new excuse. I only hope that they wait until afterMr.Morgan passes away before publishing the issue. And, I'm sure thatnayonewhohas ever met Mr. Morgan will share the sentiment that I hope that specialissue won't be due out for many many more years to come. I bought a two year subscription to the Bamboo magazine (I forgot thenamebecause it has been so long since I have seen an issue.) Little did I knowthat I was purchasing what may turn out to be a lifetime subscription. I create, and coordinate production of printed materials ship and and mailonextremely tight timeframes (political campaigns -- election day is a realdeadline). I cannot imagine anyone having so many problems. Chris Lucker from chris@artistree.com Mon Oct 26 16:12:51 1998 OAA05666 Subject: Re: Varnish Temp (was: glue/adhesive poll?) Sorry John, Seem to have left out a few letters in your name. > Chris Chris Wohlford wrote: Well now, that brings up yet another question. The Poly varnish I useseems to handle that temp. O.K. Doesn't seem to soften or anything.What's your take on this Jimmy? from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Mon Oct 26 17:18:03 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: George Harvey Leaders Was: & New Book Someone on this list previously pointed out what is now one of myfavoritesites:http://www.bibliofind.com -- great for finding out-of-print books! George Bourke PS--Usual disclaimer: I have absolutely NO commercial interest in theabove- mentioned site, nor do I even know anyone who does.-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: George Harvey Leaders Was: & New Book Can any one advise me where I can order the limited edition Harvey bookfrom???? Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, October 23, 1998 1:01 PM Subject: Re: George Harvey Leaders Was: & New Book Soon to be published book on the life and adventures ofGeorge Harvey, he is80 plus years and a wonderful person; still ties the finestdry flies I haveever seen. Book is in soft cover and a limited edition,can't wait to getmine. PS his leaders are great!! Best Dick Fogel fromCentral Pa. Michael Dell wrote: You can find a George Harvey leader in this article onVFS: http://www.flyshop.com/Tactics/01-97Leaders/index.html The formulas are also published in George Harvery's book(I can't rememberthe title) and Joe Humprhrey's book Trout Tactics. Michael MICHAEL DELL email:mdell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca http://www.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/trout from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Mon Oct 26 17:49:19 1998 (modemcable31.174.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: beginner's corner Hi Mike, What's rockwool? Richard Hi List,I wrap the bamboo strip with rockwool prior to heat treatment. Rockwoolfibresdistributes the heatalong the strips so I get strips that are (almost) perfectly coloured.tight linesMichael from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Oct 26 17:58:42 1998 Subject: Re: Varnish Temp (was: glue/adhesive poll?) List,I have many different makes of bamboo rods from Heddons to paynes and Ihaveleft them all at one time or another in the car under very hot conditionsandhave never had a problem with any finishes softening. Tho i must say Ihavenever left them in direct sunlight I have always covered them (in theircasesof course) with a blanket or some such thing.Bret from swilson1@WHC.NET Mon Oct 26 20:02:36 1998 ; Subject: previous message Sorry. from swilson1@WHC.NET Mon Oct 26 20:02:37 1998 ; Subject: bamboo "bargains" There was a fairly recent post to the rodmakers list concerning"bargains" on bamboo rods in Australia due to devalued currency (150pounds for a Hardy, or something like that). Are these bargains stillto be had? I believe it was your post--I could be wrong, it might have been Ian K.in NZ (or maybe it was someone in Canada). If not your post, Iapologize. Thanks Scott Wilsonswilson1@whc.net from flyrod6@juno.com Mon Oct 26 20:44:32 1998 21:44:26 EST Subject: Re: Polishing an Old Rod Can anyone recommend a good tung oil? Mark Hallowell On Mon, 26 Oct 1998 09:16:44 -0500 "Hanzich, Al (MLPT)"writes:I can not find any sporting store in Pa, NJ or NY. That carries this.Al Hanzich732-878- 6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, October 23, 1998 2:54 PM Subject: Re: Polishing an Old Rod Michael Sinclair suggests using Brownell's polishingcompounds. I haveonly used rottenstone and automotive polishers. Anyone everusedBrownell's? How does it compare?Ralph ___________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno athttp://www.juno.com/getjuno.htmlor call Juno at (800) 654- JUNO [654-5866] from dickay@alltel.net Mon Oct 26 20:46:15 1998 UAA22259 Subject: Re: beginner's corner Richard,Rock Wool is another name for insulation. I would use the unfaced type offiberglass insulation that is used to wrap pipes. This comes in stripsseveral yards long and about 3-4 Inches wide. The only problem withfiberglass insulation is that the heat of the oven will bake out the binderin the fiberglass. This will make it hard to reuse.Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net from sshorb@ozip.net Mon Oct 26 21:01:52 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-55785U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Mon, 26 Oct 1998 21:02:22 -0600 Subject: Honing leather Harry;Was the leather you had on the honing wheel you demo'd at the arkgathering oil cured? Something about this is on the list somewhere butI've been reading about all of these things in the archieves for 3-4weeks now and can't remember where I read it.TIASkip from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Oct 26 21:19:45 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Mon,26Oct 1998 22:28:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Delay of Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine Renew? I have three issues....I'll renew when I receive the other three. On 26 Oct 98, at 13:11, Dell wrote: Hi all, I too have not recieved my issue of "Bamboo Flyrod", but in todaysmail there was a subscription application. I also noticed that the rateshave gone up with no reduction for long term suscriptions. With all thedelays should I renew? Dell Coppock -----Original Message----- From: Date: Monday, October 26, 1998 10:20 AMSubject: Re: Delay of Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine In a message dated 10/24/98 4:49:07 AM Pacific Standard Time,richjez@enteract.com writes: Morgan passed away and they are doing a commemorative issue on him. Well at least that's a new excuse. I only hope that they wait untilafterMr.Morgan passes away before publishing the issue. And, I'm sure thatnayonewho> >has ever met Mr. Morgan will share the sentiment that I hope thatspecialissue won't be due out for many many more years to come. I bought a two year subscription to the Bamboo magazine (I forgot thename because it has been so long since I have seen an issue.) Little didI know that I was purchasing what may turn out to be a lifetimesubscription. I create, and coordinate production of printed materials ship and andmailonextremely tight timeframes (political campaigns -- election day is arealdeadline). I cannot imagine anyone having so many problems. Chris Lucker Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.munrorodco.com from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Mon Oct 26 22:32:02 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: bamboo "bargains" The other place for ***some*** bargains is British auctions. The Hardyrodswill go for a mint, but I've seen Farlow, Constable, Sharpe's, and older,longer H.L. Leonards go for $250 US. If you want to look into those, thejumping off point is/was (it'll still get you there)http://www.auctions-on- line.com then look for "Angling Auctions" and"Bonhams" (2 British auction houses that have several fishing equipmentauctions per year) -- there are a couple others that have a fishing auctiononce in awhile + Lang's in the US. George Bourke PS--Again: No commercial interest in any of the above, no relatives withcommercial interests in the above, no friends with commercial interestsinthe above, have not had a commercial interest in the above in the past orina past life. (The Shirley McLaine clause.) In other words, "just passingalong info". ;^)-----Original Message----- Subject: bamboo "bargains" There was a fairly recent post to the rodmakers list concerning"bargains" on bamboo rods in Australia due to devalued currency (150pounds for a Hardy, or something like that). Are these bargains stillto be had? I believe it was your post--I could be wrong, it might have been Ian K.in NZ (or maybe it was someone in Canada). If not your post, Iapologize. Thanks Scott Wilsonswilson1@whc.net from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Oct 27 00:57:48 1998 Subject: Fishing Rod abuse To all, Read some posts about leaving your rod in your vehicle - temp. problemsandall - read earlier about some glues not handling the cold. Well, my rods go into the truck topper rod box in the spring and come outin the fall when the overnight lows get to 27F or so. No glue delaminationsor varnish failures - what do you think I'm doing wrong. As I build themand repairs or replacement is reasonably easy, I think that abusing them inmuch the same way as most folks might do will give me insight into what,ifanything, I should caution folks about when caring and feeding their canefishing rods.So far the cautions are about ferrule abuse and moisture nottemperature related problems. The temperatures in my neck of the woodslikely are cooler than down south. Perhaps that's why things haven'tfailed. Til I get some indication of troubles, guess I'll continue. regards, Don from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Oct 27 00:57:50 1998 Subject: Re: bamboo "bargains" At 19:06 26/10/98 -0700, you wrote:There was a fairly recent post to the rodmakers list concerning"bargains" on bamboo rods in Australia due to devalued currency (150pounds for a Hardy, or something like that). Are these bargains stillto be had? I believe it was your post--I could be wrong, it might have been Ian K.in NZ (or maybe it was someone in Canada). If not your post, Iapologize. Thanks Scott Wilsonswilson1@whc.net Scott, Twasn't me - but the bargains are up here. With the CDN buck @ $0.65 vstheUS buck - bargains are everywhere for the folks from down south. I'mselling rods @ $ 1,000 CDN. Not a bargain to the locals but to those downsouth - you bet. Unfortunately, there are no cane dealers about - most rodsare sold on consignment @ local shops by folks that mostly have neverseena cane rod and believe that they are " junk" and priced accordingly or "collectibles" and priced accordingly. So if you luck out and find a "junk"dealer - you may just get a real good deal. A friend on the west coastoccasionally picks up used Hardy rods for $ 150>200 CDN. Most of them areheavy steelhead/salmon rods and not the kind of thing that most rodsuserswant. Still!!! regards, Don from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Oct 27 01:18:04 1998 Subject: Trim wraps - neat idea To all, Haven't yet tried it but sure see how it could work. Point your clicker @ http://www.flyshop.com/Bulletin/index/html click on rod building board Neat idea. Got to get a weaving hook and try it. Don from maxs@geocities.co.jp Tue Oct 27 02:40:26 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id RAA00758for; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 17:40:20 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Trim wraps - neat idea Don,Does this URL work fine. When I clicked, it got error.Max Don Andersen wrote: To all, Haven't yet tried it but sure see how it could work. Point your clicker @ http://www.flyshop.com/Bulletin/index/html click on rod building board Neat idea. Got to get a weaving hook and try it. Don -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from chris@artistree.com Tue Oct 27 02:54:38 1998 AAA27817 Subject: Re: Trim wraps - neat idea Correct Address is http://www.flyshop.com/Bulletin/rod_board.html thenfollow Don's directions below. Don Andersen wrote: To all, Haven't yet tried it but sure see how it could work. Point your clicker @ http://www.flyshop.com/Bulletin/index/html click on rod building board Neat idea. Got to get a weaving hook and try it. Don from maxs@geocities.co.jp Tue Oct 27 03:19:46 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id SAA09559for; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 18:19:41 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Trim wraps - neat idea Don, Chris,It's really neat. I'll try this. Thanks for posting.MaxP.S. I am dropping just a bit of tying head cement on the crossed threadafter cutting both end in order not to lose it while I'm handling otherwraps. Chris Wohlford wrote: Correct Address is http://www.flyshop.com/Bulletin/rod_board.htmlthenfollow Don's directions below. Don Andersen wrote: To all, Haven't yet tried it but sure see how it could work. Point your clicker @ http://www.flyshop.com/Bulletin/index/html click on rod building board Neat idea. Got to get a weaving hook and try it. Don -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from Rodsofcane@aol.com Tue Oct 27 05:57:22 1998 Subject: Rod Identification? I bought a 8'6" 3 peice rod with 2 tips for $190.00 a refinished rod withthename Halstead on it, this is the only i.d. It is a very nice casting rod andhas a red agate stripping guide n.s. real seat the cork needs to be redone,but besides that a nice rod.Any idea who this rod maker is? from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Tue Oct 27 06:53:57 1998 HAA12897 Subject: RE: Rod Identification? George Halstead worked with Hiram Leonard and Ed Payne. Was also a veryclose friend of Pinky Gillum. He lived in Danbury Conn. Halstead rods arequite valuable (four figures) He also designed ferrules and up locking reelseats for Ed Payne. Suggest you "RESTORE".Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 1998 6:56 AM Subject: Rod Identification? I bought a 8'6" 3 peice rod with 2 tips for $190.00 arefinished rod with thename Halstead on it, this is the only i.d. It is a very nicecasting rod andhas a red agate stripping guide n.s. real seat the corkneeds to be redone,but besides that a nice rod.Any idea who this rod maker is? from fr.keulen@wxs.nl Tue Oct 27 07:05:56 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA6163 +0100 Subject: Re: beginner's corner Ian Kearney wrote: At 03:49 PM 26/10/98 +0100, you wrote: Iank; Fellow builders, I recognize the problem with uneven colouration of the cane afterhaving bakedthe strips in a heat gun powered oven. I tried to avoid the problem bypulling uponly the tips of the cane cane after being in the oven for 20 minutes.Thisseemsto work. Rens Oosthoek Wow Rens , Mine start to turn to charcoal after 10 minutes in the tube. I use 7minuteson untapered cane and turn at 3 1/2 minutes to get a medium tan colour.My thermometer ( a candy thermometer which may not be precise) shows325degrees. I suppose it merely indicates that differences in guns , dimensions , etcwill produce different results and it takes a certain amount ofexperimentation to achieve a consistant result for ones own setup. IankIan Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374RichmondNew Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz Iank, Right you are. The first time I used my oven (I copied the Neunemann type,whichheincluded in his interesting sight), I didn't have a clue about the exact timetobake the strips nor about the best temperature. I found out that myheatgun isonlycapable of a maximum temperature of 180C (I think this is 356F). Sincegarrissonadvised 375, I always use the heatgun at its maximum capacity. When Ihang thepreplaned strips in the pipe - it is a vertical oven with two holes at thetopend,one for the heatgun and the other to hang the satrips in - the tips of boththetopand the butt end change colour into a chocolate like brown after twenty-thirtyminutes. Leaving them in for about an extra thirty minutes has neverproduced anycharcoal effect. You can imagine how surprised I am at your account. Theexperienced builder who taught me the trade here in Holland, owns anelectricaloven (pipe like, in a horizontal position, powered by a spiral wire turnedaroundthe pipe) also manages to heat the strips to well over thirty minutes,therebyproducing a very nice chocolatebrown colour.I wasn't too fond of the colourdifferences but there are sneeky ways toovercomethis problem. As I told you, pulling the tops of the strips out of the tubeforabout 12 inches seems to work alright. Rens from fr.keulen@wxs.nl Tue Oct 27 07:08:10 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA1B99 +0100 Subject: Re: beginner's corner Michael Mèller wrote: F. Keulen wrote: john channer wrote: At 09:39 AM 10/26/98 +1300, you wrote:Brian , Don spare strips each time to provide for any problems which emergewhen theenamel is taken off. Incidently , I follow the advice in Jack Howells book and remove theenameland sand the nodes before final planning . I found that I had realdifficulty in getting the right taper at node points otherwise due tonodesnot always being perfectly flat. regards Iank Iank; Fellow builders, I recognize the problem with uneven colouration of the cane afterhaving bakedthe strips in a heat gun powered oven. I tried to avoid the problem bypullinguponly the tips of the cane cane after being in the oven for 20 minutes.Thisseemsto work. Rens Oosthoek Hi List,I wrap the bamboo strip with rockwool prior to heat treatment.Rockwool fibresdistributes the heatalong the strips so I get strips that are (almost) perfectly coloured.tight linesMichael Interesting! How thick a layer do you put on? Rens from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Tue Oct 27 08:28:27 1998 0600 Subject: Re: Honing leather Skip,To be honest, I'm not 100% sure. I think "Oil Finished" is what theguy who gave it to me called it, but I really don't remember. You knowhow sometimes you ask a simple question and get an essay for an answer?Well, he told me all about the history of leatherworking, and I reallydon't remember the answer.I'm fairly sure that whatever leather you come up with will work justfine. All it has to do is hold the buffing compound. If I had a choice,I would try to get the smoothest finish possible.Sorry I can't be more specific, Harry Skip Shorb wrote: Harry;Was the leather you had on the honing wheel you demo'd at the arkgathering oil cured? Something about this is on the list somewhere butI've been reading about all of these things in the archieves for 3-4weeks now and can't remember where I read it.TIASkip from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Tue Oct 27 08:38:30 1998 0600 Subject: Re: Rod Identification? RodsofCane,I think Al's mistaken, and this is probably a piece of junk. You shouldgetrid of it immediately. Allowing such bad rods to sit around your shop willdoubtlessly influence your own rodmaking in a very negative way. To getrid ofthe rod, send it immediately to me, and I'll even refund your money. Heck,I'llthrow in another $10, and make it $200 even! After all, that's the kind ofthing that "friends" do for each other!All said with tongue stuck in cheek! >grin George Halstead worked with Hiram Leonard and Ed Payne. Was also averyclose friend of Pinky Gillum. He lived in Danbury Conn. Halstead rods arequite valuable (four figures) He also designed ferrules and up lockingreelseats for Ed Payne. Suggest you "RESTORE".Al Hanzich732-878- 6567 I bought a 8'6" 3 peice rod with 2 tips for $190.00 arefinished rod with the name Halstead on it, this is the only i.d. It is avery nicecasting rod and has a red agate stripping guide n.s. real seat the corkneeds to be redone, but besides that a nice rod.Any idea who this rodmakeris? from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Tue Oct 27 10:04:49 1998 MAINE.maine.edu (IBMVM SMTP Level 310) via TCP with SMTP ; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 11:03:19 EST Subject: Re: Honing leather Skip, Not sure about Harry's set up or your application, but I use mineraloil on leather strops prior to adding honing compounds only because itworks better. The honing compound sticks better and distributes moreevenly. In a pinch I once used olive oil. Works fine but then the shopsmelt like a salad for a few days. Bob. At 09:03 PM 10/26/98 -0600, you wrote:Harry;Was the leather you had on the honing wheel you demo'd at the arkgathering oil cured? Something about this is on the list somewhere butI've been reading about all of these things in the archieves for 3-4weeks now and can't remember where I read it.TIASkip Robert M. Milardo, Ph.D.17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581-3128 from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Tue Oct 27 10:51:36 1998 LAA26576 Subject: RE: Rod Identification? KAA04594 Harry Boyd, you are correct. However, I already dispatched my courier topick this junker up, and deliver to me by this evening for destruction. Itonly shows that if you look around you can find TREASURE! I recentlypickedup an Orvis Wes Jordan 7 *' 2 piece, 2 tip in original leather case and aPhillipson Peerless, 7', 2 piece, 2 tips in original tube for less than$400. Both near mint! Note: Please stay away from my TURF northeastPA.,in your search for the $100 Garrison! Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 1998 9:37 AM Subject: Re: Rod Identification? RodsofCane,I think Al's mistaken, and this is probably a piece ofjunk. You should getrid of it immediately. Allowing such bad rods to sit aroundyour shop willdoubtlessly influence your own rodmaking in a very negativeway. To get rid ofthe rod, send it immediately to me, and I'll even refundyour money. Heck, I'llthrow in another $10, and make it $200 even! After all,that's the kind ofthing that "friends" do for each other!All said with tongue stuck in cheek! >grin George Halstead worked with Hiram Leonard and Ed Payne.Was also a veryclose friend of Pinky Gillum. He lived in Danbury Conn.Halstead rods arequite valuable (four figures) He also designed ferrulesand up locking reelseats for Ed Payne. Suggest you "RESTORE".Al Hanzich732-878-6567 From: Rodsofcane@aol.com I bought a 8'6" 3 peice rod with 2 tips refinished rod with the name Halstead on it, this is theonly i.d. It is avery nicecasting rod and has a red agate stripping guide n.s. realseat the corkneeds to be redone, but besides that a nice rod.Any ideawho this rod makeris? from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Oct 27 12:01:50 1998 Subject: Returning to this list I'm sitting here admiring a bit of history, a bit of wonderment,a bit of nostalgia. It is conjuring up scenes of a smooth flowingchalk stream through a green meadow. It is a rod, bamboo ofcourse, made by P.D. Malloch. 8' 6" long, in three pieces, thecane is blonde, the wraps are dark red, the stripper and tip tophave agatine inserts, and there are 105 intermediate wrapsevenly spaced from tip to handle. This is not an old rod in needof restoration, I could take it out and fish with it this minute ifI had a stream nearby. The varnish is new and flawless. The wonderment I am feeling is because a kind and generousman, whom I would have never met except through this list sentit to me. Looking at this rod has caused me to think about theother kind and generous people on this list. Tom Smithwick Highlander for it. The fly is very late in going out to him, butnot a peep about what I owe him. Several people have writtento me urging me to return to the list. I took their words veryseriously and each one of them influenced me more and moreto return to the list. Where else could I get a standing invitationto fish the Test if I ever visit England? So, I am back on this list. I believe I am back for good. Thenext time a message raises my ire and I want to post an unkindretort I will take the Malloch out of it's case, admire it, remind myself what the vast majority of people on this list are like, and hit the delete key instead of signing off. Darryl Hayashida from sshorb@ozip.net Tue Oct 27 12:21:43 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-55785U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Tue, 27 Oct 1998 12:22:12 -0600 Subject: Re: Honing leather Bob; Harry's honer is like a leather grinding wheel. It works great. I'mbuilding a horizontal wheel based on a 10" table saw blade with aleather disk. I'm going to use a graver holder ( used to sharpenengraving tool bits) to hold the plane blade. I don't know if I'm goingto run it dry or not, but the suggestion about mineral oil is going tobe kept in mind as I experiment. Skip from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Tue Oct 27 12:43:23 1998 (5.5.2407.0) Subject: RE: Honing leather at the violin shop I worked for we made a stropping wheel (horizontal). Weused a low speed motor that we got from starvation army and a aluminumdiskwe turned flat on the lath. We used a piece of leather we got from tandy'sabout 5mm thick and dressed it with jewelers rouge. We first sharpenedon ahard white and then when we had it sharp enough to shave with wesharpenedit on the motorized leather strop and got it really sharp, you could combyour hair in the reflection of the bevel. Quite easy to make and cost maybe$20 worth of materials. the one I made for myself I used a plywood diskthatI flattened on my wood lathe. GREAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT to see Darrylback. ----------From: sshorb@ozip.net[SMTP:sshorb@ozip.net] Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 1998 10:23 AM Subject: Re: Honing leather Bob; Harry's honer is like a leather grinding wheel. It works great. I'mbuilding a horizontal wheel based on a 10" table saw blade with aleather disk. I'm going to use a graver holder ( used to sharpenengraving tool bits) to hold the plane blade. I don't know if I'm goingto run it dry or not, but the suggestion about mineral oil is going tobe kept in mind as I experiment. Skip from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Tue Oct 27 12:53:00 1998 Subject: Returning to this list Darryl, WELCOME BACK!!!!!! You have been missed. We are glad that you are back. We look forwardto your informative posts Again, WELCOME BACK Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net from sshorb@ozip.net Tue Oct 27 13:10:46 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-55785U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Tue, 27 Oct 1998 13:11:11 -0600 Subject: Re: Honing leather Patrick; Sounds like you have what I'm going to make. I'm going to try to do allof the sharpening process on this thing if I can work it all out. Skip from harry37@epix.net Tue Oct 27 13:15:54 1998 SMTP idOAA03756 Subject: Re: Honing leather Coffey, Patrick W wrote: ...at the violin shop I worked for we made a stropping wheel(horizontal).... Pat, when you were running across the wheel, which direction were you holdingthe iron/blade? I am visualizing the "lyrical" (?) image of the barberstropping the blade pulling it away from him with the edge toward him,rather than the blade edge toward thesurface, as you would do with aconventional stone. I have tried to use al old belt, but with limitedresults, and I'm not sure if I'm doing something backwards. Pleaseclear up my confusion. Thanks, Greg from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Tue Oct 27 13:30:24 1998 (5.5.2407.0) Subject: RE: Honing leather we found that a old belt razors strop rounded the bevel because theleatherwas unsupported and rolled around the edge if its not supported. Lookingdown on the wheel, it's rotating clock wise and you hold the blade bevelside down pointing away from you ( / ) on the left hand side of therotating surface so the leather is rotating off of the bevel away from you ----------From: Greg Kuntz[SMTP:harry37@epix.net] Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 1998 11:15 AM Subject: Re: Honing leather Coffey, Patrick W wrote: ...at the violin shop I worked for we made a stropping wheel(horizontal).... Pat, when you were running across the wheel, which direction were youholdingthe iron/blade? I am visualizing the "lyrical" (?) image of the barberstropping the blade pulling it away from him with the edge toward him,rather than the blade edge toward thesurface, as you would do with aconventional stone. I have tried to use al old belt, but with limitedresults, and I'm not sure if I'm doing something backwards. Pleaseclear up my confusion. Thanks, Greg from arnold_jeff@hotmail.com Tue Oct 27 13:33:39 1998 Tue, 27 Oct 1998 11:33:06 PST Subject: Starving glue joints? I have had a few splices "pop" open on me in my final planing. I am using Titebond II for the splices and I will use Epon for gluing the rod together. Is it possible that the clamps that I am using are too strong? I really coat the glue all over both splices and clamp quickly, using three of the small pony clamps per joint. Darryl, glad to see you back. Jeff Arnold ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Oct 27 14:17:46 1998 Subject: Re: Returning to this list Darryl - Welcome back, and thanks for the kind mention. What makes thislistso different is that it is not just a virtual community, but a realcommunityin which many of us are friends, or friends of friends. We can ill afford tolose people like yourself to misunderstanding or carelessness. I hopeWaynewill have a change of heart also. from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Tue Oct 27 14:30:14 1998 0600 Subject: Re: Honing leather Skip,You're right, it works well. But I want to be sure that everyone knowsthat this isn't my original creation. Tom Smithwick posted this idea tothe list several months ago. He mentioned that he first saw this at thehands of George Barnes.I just copied and improvised and jury-rigged what they did. I don'thave many original ideas, but I'm not bad at knowing a good idea when Iseeit! HarrySkip Shorb wrote: Bob;Harry's honer is like a leather grinding wheel. It works great.snipped from RVenneri@aol.com Tue Oct 27 14:33:27 1998 Subject: Re: Returning to this list Great to see you back. Best Regards, Bob V from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Oct 27 15:56:11 1998 Subject: Split cane Corvette? I recently got back from a fishing trip with a group of friends, and acoupleguys from the fly shop that sponsors it. A few times during the week, thesubject of cane rods came up, and one of the guys from the shop wouldalwaysask "If bamboo is so great, how come they don't make Corvettes out of it?"Itturned out his only exposure to cane was a couple bottom of the barrelproduction rods. Well, this was a saltwater trip, and I didn't have a canerodwith me, so all I could do was grin. I'm an easy going sort, and will put upwith a bit of BS from anyone, but there is a limit. After hearing aboutbambooCorvettes the third or fourth time, I decided enough was enough.Sooo, when we got home I armed myself with a couple spiral rods and paidavisit to the shop. There really isn't a good casting area, a coupledumpsters40 feet behind you, and some trees 50 feet in front of you. The first castthe guy made, the line went crashing into the trees. I can't describe all ofhis reactions, since this is a family list, and besides there are ladiespresent. Lets just say that 1/2 hour later I had to wrestle the rod awayfromhim so I could go home. He won't soon be making any more remarks aboutbambooCorvettes.My own accomplishments being modest compared to many others on thelist, Idon't tell this to brag. It was just funny to see the man so completely andvociferously change his opinion, and I hope others enjoy the story. from maxs@geocities.co.jp Tue Oct 27 17:07:46 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id IAA02580for; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:07:41 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Returning to this list Welcome back, Hayashida san. I am glad to see your post with your great ideas again.Max-- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from anglport@con2.com Tue Oct 27 17:18:20 1998 Subject: Re: Returning to this list Darryl,I think you've made a point we should all remember and consider it mostseriously when it's the hardest 'cause we've been "honked off'.Welcome back,Art !At 01:01 PM 10/27/98 EST, you wrote: I'm sitting here admiring a bit of history, a bit of wonderment,a bit of nostalgia. It is conjuring up scenes of a smooth flowingchalk stream through a green meadow. It is a rod, bamboo ofcourse, made by P.D. Malloch. 8' 6" long, in three pieces, thecane is blonde, the wraps are dark red, the stripper and tip tophave agatine inserts, and there are 105 intermediate wrapsevenly spaced from tip to handle. This is not an old rod in needof restoration, I could take it out and fish with it this minute ifI had a stream nearby. The varnish is new and flawless. The wonderment I am feeling is because a kind and generousman, whom I would have never met except through this list sentit to me. Looking at this rod has caused me to think about theother kind and generous people on this list. Tom Smithwicksent me an old calcutta cane rod, and I still owe him a GreenHighlander for it. The fly is very late in going out to him, butnot a peep about what I owe him. Several people have writtento me urging me to return to the list. I took their words veryseriously and each one of them influenced me more and moreto return to the list. Where else could I get a standing invitationto fish the Test if I ever visit England? So, I am back on this list. I believe I am back for good. Thenext time a message raises my ire and I want to post an unkindretort I will take the Malloch out of it's case, admire it, remind myself what the vast majority of people on this list are like, and hit the delete key instead of signing off. Darryl Hayashida from anglport@con2.com Tue Oct 27 17:26:36 1998 Subject: Re: Split cane Corvette? Tom,If he ever asks you to build him one, don't you DARE call it anything but aSting Ray!Good talkin' to ya again,Art At 04:55 PM 10/27/98 EST, you wrote:I recently got back from a fishing trip with a group of friends, He won'tsoon be making any more remarks about bambooCorvettes. from destinycon@mindspring.com Tue Oct 27 17:56:26 1998 Subject: Re: Returning to this list At 01:01 PM 10/27/98 EST, you wrote: I'm sitting here admiring a bit of history, a bit of wonderment,Darryl Hayashida Welcome home.Gary H. from Rodsofcane@aol.com Tue Oct 27 18:28:05 1998 Subject: Re: Rod Identification again? I can not believe this rod is worth as much as you say, the reason is Iboughtit at the southern federation of fly fisher gathering in gatlinburg thissummer from a dealer. Although he didnot know the history of this rod hesaidit was a refinished heddon? However in the lovely reed there is a taper ofaHalstead that is a 8'6" 6 wt! If this is a Halstead, I am sick to my stomach, because I have fished therodand broke one of the tips to it, at the ferrule! I do not dare tell my wife,the what this rod may be worth. Also I will never fish it again after I getitappraised, if it is a Halstead. My friend and mentor has seen it, cast it, andfound it to be a nice rod. Feeling sick!Kent K. AndersonNashville, TN from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Oct 27 19:00:41 1998 Subject: Re: Starving glue joints? JeffDo not think Starving glue joints is your problem. I usethree pony 1" clamps and sometimes four per splice all the time.I think you need to look elsewhere for the cause. The splice needs to be planed clean and even. Put glueon both sides and when you fit the splice together, "slip" the splice to insure good glue coverage and then clamp. Keep yourfingers off the planed surfaces to keep them clean prior to gluing. Chris On Tue, 27 Oct 1998 11:33:06 PST, Jeff Arnold wrote: I have had a few splices "pop" open on me in my final planing. I am using Titebond II for the splices and I will use Epon for gluing the rod together. Is it possible that the clamps that I am using are too strong? I really coat the glue all over both splices and clamp quickly, using three of the small pony clamps per joint. Darryl, glad to see you back. Jeff Arnold ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Oct 27 19:22:28 1998 Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:22:15 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Starving glue joints? On Tue, 27 Oct 1998, Jeff Arnold wrote: I have had a few splices "pop" open on me in my final planing. I am using Titebond II for the splices and I will use Epon for gluing the rod together. Is it possible that the clamps that I am using are too strong? I really coat the glue all over both splices and clamp quickly, using three of the small pony clamps per joint. It's unlikely you're starving the joint but possibly the scarf is contaminated with oil from honing the plane iron, that's one very good reason for using a waterstone or similar or maybe you planed the joints some time before gluing them and something else has got ontothem.The best gluing surface is one that is freshly planed with a sharp iron.You may also leave the glued surfaces sit for 10 seconds or so so the cane can absorb some before clamping. That shouldn't be necessary but if all the above dosn't apply it's worth a try. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from Canerods@aol.com Tue Oct 27 20:55:45 1998 Subject: Re: Rod Identification again? In a message dated 10/27/98 4:34:21 PM Pacific Standard Time,Rodsofcane@aol.com writes: Kent, You said that the rod is refinished - heck anyone can add a fancy name. I suggest a few more rod details will determine if it's a Heddon. Thereshouldbe no comparison between the two makers. Don Burns from MasjC1@aol.com Tue Oct 27 21:15:48 1998 Subject: Re: Returning to this list Welcome home. You have been missed. Mark Cole from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Tue Oct 27 21:24:15 1998 Subject: Re: Rod Identification again? On Tue, 27 Oct 1998 Canerods@aol.com wrote: Kent, You said that the rod is refinished - heck anyone can add a fancy name. I suggest a few more rod details will determine if it's a Heddon. Thereshouldbe no comparison between the two makers. Don Burns Hi Don, I was just thinking the very thing as there was just a supposed Halsteadon eBay (sold for about $1). Pics: http://www.gwi.net/~jfee/64-20.jpghttp://www.gwi.net/~jfee/64- 19.jpghttp://www.gwi.net/~jfee/64-18.jpg only one short tip though. wonder if it's genuine. Regards, Bobflysupplies@yahoo.com from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Oct 27 22:01:07 1998 Subject: Re: Returning to this list Darryl,Welcome back-you've been missed.Regards,Hank. from saweiss@flash.net Tue Oct 27 22:16:26 1998 Subject: Re: Returning to this list Darryl,That makes my daySteve from irvine@bamboorods.org Tue Oct 27 22:26:38 1998 ia024474 for; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 20:29:34 -0800 Subject: Glad you are back Sir Daryl,Very happy that you have decided to return, You know I hit the deletekey too," life is to short to let The #$@^%*&@ get you down" someonewho must be wise said that. Maybe see ya on the Owens this winter, TightLines, Chuck from jczimny@dol.net Tue Oct 27 23:36:00 1998 Subject: Re: Starving glue joints? My $.02 on the delaminations. It is also possible for the cane to be toodry. If this happens, the cane will suck the water out of the glue beforeany of the resin penetrates the substrate. The cane needs to be at 7%moisture content to properly glue. Put your strips between dampenednewspaper for an hour or lightly mist the strips with an atomizer about10minutes before you apply the glue. Then as Tony said, wait a bit beforeyouclamp. You should have no more problems. John Z from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Wed Oct 28 00:01:58 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Rod Identification? I (also) have an alleged Halstead coming in the mail (not quite as good of adeal, $516.00) -- I would suggest that the first thing you do is what I amdoing...have someone who really knows Halstead rods authenticate it. If itisn't really a Halstead, you'll probably have other plans than having itrestored. George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Rod Identification? I bought a 8'6" 3 peice rod with 2 tips for $190.00 a refinished rod withthename Halstead on it, this is the only i.d. It is a very nice casting rodandhas a red agate stripping guide n.s. real seat the cork needs to be redone,but besides that a nice rod.Any idea who this rod maker is? from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Wed Oct 28 00:26:56 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Returning to this list Welcome back! George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Returning to this list So, I am back on this list. I believe I am back for good. Thenext time a message raises my ire and I want to post an unkindretort I will take the Malloch out of it's case, admire it, remind myself what the vast majority of people on this list are like, and hit the delete key instead of signing off. Darryl Hayashida from Rodsofcane@aol.com Wed Oct 28 04:50:45 1998 Subject: Rod Identification update! Well I got out my calipers and measured the rod, the interesting thing is ithas the same measurments (within one thousandth) as that as the rod inthelovely reed by Halstead.Only mine is a 3 piece, not a 2 piece. I am notgetting my hopes up, but this has made me even more interested in findingoutthe true origin / maker of this rod. Any suggestions would be helpful! Thanx,Kent K.AndersonNashville,TN from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Wed Oct 28 06:28:02 1998 HAA23524 Subject: RE: Rod Identification again? If you are indicating that the rod has some kind of writing that refers to a6 weight line, I then must revise my thoughts to say NOT a Halstead. Rodsmade during his lifetime would not indicate the line weight in numeric,theywere using the three alpha designations.Al Hanzich732-878- 6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 1998 7:27 PM Subject: Re: Rod Identification again? I can not believe this rod is worth as much as you say, thereason is I boughtit at the southern federation of fly fisher gathering ingatlinburg thissummer from a dealer. Although he didnot know the history ofthis rod he saidit was a refinished heddon? However in the lovely reed thereis a taper of aHalstead that is a 8'6" 6 wt! If this is a Halstead, I am sick to my stomach, because Ihave fished the rodand broke one of the tips to it, at the ferrule! I do notdare tell my wife,the what this rod may be worth. Also I will never fish itagain after I get itappraised, if it is a Halstead. My friend and mentor hasseen it, cast it, andfound it to be a nice rod. Feeling sick!Kent K. AndersonNashville, TN from sniderja@email.uc.edu Wed Oct 28 06:39:39 1998 Subject: Jeff Arnold messages bounced back Jeff Arnold, my responses to your private emails are being bounced back.(Sorry to take up bandwidth). J. Snider. from ljrp@penn.com Wed Oct 28 07:36:57 1998 Subject: Re: Rod Identification again? This could be a Heddon they have a habit of failing at the mid femaleferruleunder abuse!! Hanzich, Al (MLPT) wrote: If you are indicating that the rod has some kind of writing that refers toa6 weight line, I then must revise my thoughts to say NOT a Halstead. Rodsmade during his lifetime would not indicate the line weight in numeric,theywere using the three alpha designations.Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 1998 7:27 PM Subject: Re: Rod Identification again? I can not believe this rod is worth as much as you say, thereason is I boughtit at the southern federation of fly fisher gathering ingatlinburg thissummer from a dealer. Although he didnot know the history ofthis rod he saidit was a refinished heddon? However in the lovely reed thereis a taper of aHalstead that is a 8'6" 6 wt! If this is a Halstead, I am sick to my stomach, because Ihave fished the rodand broke one of the tips to it, at the ferrule! I do notdare tell my wife,the what this rod may be worth. Also I will never fish itagain after I get itappraised, if it is a Halstead. My friend and mentor hasseen it, cast it, andfound it to be a nice rod. Feeling sick!Kent K. AndersonNashville, TN from ljrp@penn.com Wed Oct 28 07:37:40 1998 Subject: Re: Rod Identification update! Sounds like a Heddon if a Heddon ever broke it was at the bottom of thefemaleferrule on the mid section. Rodsofcane@aol.com wrote: Well I got out my calipers and measured the rod, the interesting thing isithas the same measurments (within one thousandth) as that as the rod inthelovely reed by Halstead.Only mine is a 3 piece, not a 2 piece. I am notgetting my hopes up, but this has made me even more interested infinding outthe true origin / maker of this rod. Any suggestions would be helpful! Thanx,Kent K.AndersonNashville,TN from arnold_jeff@hotmail.com Wed Oct 28 07:49:22 1998 Wed, 28 Oct 1998 05:48:50 PST Subject: Dirty Fingers was Starving Glue Joints Thanks John Z, Chris B, Tony Y, and Jerry S: I think my problem was due to dirty fingers after woking on one of my old planes. I had used some Camilla Oil to clean up a bit of rust that was on the plane and I must have transferred some to the strips. The splices that came apart were all at the same location. I test the splices before starting the planing but these didn't let go until I started the final passes. Thanks again!!! Jeff "Clean Fingers" Arnold ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from rcurry@top.monad.net Wed Oct 28 09:40:07 1998 Subject: Re: Starving glue joints? Tony Young wrote:The best gluing surface is one that is freshly planed with a sharp iron.You may also leave the glued surfaces sit for 10 seconds or so so thecane can absorb some before clamping. That shouldn't be necessary but ifall the above dosn't apply it's worth a try.Tony,Good advice. When working with hide glue it is customary (at leastamong those I know) to dampen the surface to be glued at least fifteenminutes before gluing. This permits the usually very dry cells to startthe "wicking process". The belief is, and this should apply to anywater-based glue, that this allows more of the glue to penetrate thesurface.FWIW,Reed from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Wed Oct 28 09:40:36 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id JAA20938 for (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id JAA27853 for ; Wed, 28 Oct1998 09:40:34 Subject: Re: Starving glue joints? Garrett Wade and others offer a special PVA glue for dense woods.(On the Custom Pak web page its called "MPA Premium".) Its nottype II water resistant but I wonder if it wouldn't be better forsplices than Titebond II? Provided we don't store our rods in soggyconditions.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from MICK@welfen-netz.com Wed Oct 28 09:44:08 1998 [195.143.56.1]with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Wed,28 Oct 199816:42:10 +0100 Subject: Re: beginner's corner rockwool is what's written on the label - kind of mineral wool - material Michael Richard Nantel wrote: Hi Mike, What's rockwool? Richard Hi List,I wrap the bamboo strip with rockwool prior to heat treatment.Rockwoolfibresdistributes the heatalong the strips so I get strips that are (almost) perfectly coloured.tight linesMichael from sniderja@email.uc.edu Wed Oct 28 09:49:44 1998 Subject: Smithwick binder Glued up a new rod last night using the Smithwick binder. No twists, nokinks-- what a s-m-o-o-o-o-t-h way to bind rods. It works for me. Thanks,Tom, for such a simple idea. Jerry Snidere-mail: Sniderja@email.uc.eduhttp://www.biology.uc.edu/snider/jerry.htm from MICK@welfen-netz.com Wed Oct 28 09:50:23 1998 [195.143.56.1]with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Wed,28 Oct 199816:48:33 +0100 Subject: Re: beginner's corner JAA05980 actally what I meant is not fibre glass and its heat resistent to 300ŸC.Thishas to be 'caus its used in building constructuion etcMichael Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote: Richard,Rock Wool is another name for insulation. I would use the unfaced typeoffiberglass insulation that is used to wrap pipes. This comes in stripsseveral yards long and about 3-4 Inches wide. The only problem withfiberglass insulation is that the heat of the oven will bake out the binderin the fiberglass. This will make it hard to reuse.Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net from MICK@welfen-netz.com Wed Oct 28 10:15:37 1998 [195.143.56.1]with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Wed,28 Oct 199817:14:13 +0100 Subject: Re: beginner's corner KAA28116 I cut off strips 100cm x 4cm (about 3,5cm thick) and wrap it in spiralsaround thestripsand fix it with waxed cotton line. Off course you can use it once only.To tell the truth its a bit messy :)Michael F. Keulen wrote: Michael Mèller wrote: F. Keulen wrote: john channer wrote: At 09:39 AM 10/26/98 +1300, you wrote:Brian , Don spare strips each time to provide for any problems which emergewhen theenamel is taken off. Incidently , I follow the advice in Jack Howells book and removetheenameland sand the nodes before final planning . I found that I had realdifficulty in getting the right taper at node points otherwise duetonodesnot always being perfectly flat. regards Iank Iank; Fellow builders, I recognize the problem with uneven colouration of the cane afterhavingbakedthe strips in a heat gun powered oven. I tried to avoid the problem bypulling uponly the tips of the cane cane after being in the oven for 20 minutes.Thisseemsto work. Rens Oosthoek Hi List,I wrap the bamboo strip with rockwool prior to heat treatment.Rockwool fibresdistributes the heatalong the strips so I get strips that are (almost) perfectly coloured.tight linesMichael Interesting! How thick a layer do you put on? Rens from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Oct 28 10:31:35 1998 via smap(4.1) Subject: RE: Rod Identification again? Kent, If the seller told you it was a refinished Heddon then it likely is. It's not a comment that someone would offer up if it was a potential Halstead rod. If it is a 8 1/2' Heddon then the price you paid is still reasonable. Either way you didn't pay too much. Heddon rods are usually not difficult to identify even without the writing. If someone on the list is familiar with the node spacing of a Halstead rod that may be a quick way toconfirm. used the 3x3 node spacing that Leonard did (I believe I'm right on this). Heddon rods do not use 3x3. Winding checks and ferrules are anothermeans to identify. Unfortunately I've not seen a Halstead so I don't have any knowledge of their construction. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Oct 28 10:35:31 1998 Subject: Re: Smithwick binder Jerry, I agree. Mine is also very easy and nice to use. Thank you, andIan K, and Tom. Very nice design. Rob Clarke ----------From: Jerry Snider Subject: Smithwick binderDate: Wednesday, October 28, 1998 7:48 AM Glued up a new rod last night using the Smithwick binder. No twists, nokinks-- what a s-m-o-o-o-o-t-h way to bind rods. It works for me.Thanks,Tom, for such a simple idea. Jerry Snidere-mail: Sniderja@email.uc.eduhttp://www.biology.uc.edu/snider/jerry.htm from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Wed Oct 28 11:00:23 1998 MAA09165 Subject: RE: Rod Identification again? Some Halsteads have G. H. Halstead Rods on the locking ring if so equipped.I also want to be corrected in that he lived in Brewster N. Y., not Conn. asI previously indicated Many of Pinky Gillums early rods had Halsteadferrules, he eventually used Super Z's after Halsteads death. If memoryserves me correctly, Halstead rods may delaminate as he did not use firstrate glues. Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 1998 11:20 AM Subject: RE: Rod Identification again? Kent, If the seller told you it was a refinished Heddon then itlikely is. It's not a comment that someone would offer up if it was apotential Halstead rod. If it is a 8 1/2' Heddon then the price you paid isstill reasonable. Either way you didn't pay too much. Heddon rods areusually not difficult to identify even without the writing. If someone on thelist is familiar with the node spacing of a Halstead rod that may be a quickway to confirm. he may have used the 3x3 node spacing that Leonard did (I believe I'mright on this). Heddon rods do not use 3x3. Winding checks and ferrulesare another means to identify. Unfortunately I've not seen a Halstead so Idon't have any knowledge of their construction. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from rcurry@top.monad.net Wed Oct 28 11:03:09 1998 Subject: Re: Rod Identification again? I have a Halstead blank in hand. The spacing is 2/2/2 with 3" betweencenters of the nodes. The cane is very dark, not unlike a Heddon. Thebottom of each section (except the ferruled mid) shows the registrationholes from his miller. The butt is partially delaminated from thelegendary bad batch of glue (this is why so few Halsteads are around).The ferrules are quite long, female has a small, rounded welt; they haveshort serrated sections, the serrations are straight and very thin,running to a hard stop at thicker metal, rather than a gradual taper.Best regards,Reed from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Oct 28 11:21:36 1998 via smap(4.1) Subject: RE: Rod Identification Again? Kent, O.K., if we can assume that Halstead rods have 2x2x2 node spacing at 3" centers and serrated ferrules with a thicker line where the serrationsstop,then these may be used to compare with the rod you have. The Heddons I have worked with have random node spacing, or perhaps spiral, Isometimes have trouble telling the difference in the better random node rods. The Heddon company typically did a pretty good job of not lining up nodes together. Heddons also have tapered ferrules where they meet with thecane. Some are serrated and some are solid to the cane, but they are feathered. Hope all this information helps you I.D. the rod. You can always send it to one of the dealers and they can appraise it etc. for about $25. Chris mcdowellc@lanecc.edu from birnbaum@cheme.ECHEM.CWRU.Edu Wed Oct 28 11:50:52 1998 ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 12:50:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Smithwick binder I am a beginner to rodbuilding and I am interested in acquiring aSmithwickbinder. Can someone point me in the right direction to locate one. Thanks. Seymour BirnbaumCase Western Reserve Universitysxb33@po.cwru.edu Robert Clarke wrote: Jerry, I agree. Mine is also very easy and nice to use. Thank you, andIan K, and Tom. Very nice design. Rob Clarke ----------From: Jerry Snider Subject: Smithwick binderDate: Wednesday, October 28, 1998 7:48 AM Glued up a new rod last night using the Smithwick binder. No twists, nokinks-- what a s-m-o-o-o-o-t-h way to bind rods. It works for me.Thanks,Tom, for such a simple idea.Jerry Snidere-mail: Sniderja@email.uc.eduhttp://www.biology.uc.edu/snider/jerry.htm -- from jkallo@midwest.net Wed Oct 28 12:13:53 1998 Subject: First impresion Hello all,Just got back from my first trip to the water with my newly createdrod. Iended up working until about 2am this morning finishing it up, then wasoff at 6 to fish. I know there are some people out their looking for theirfirst taper so perhaps some comments may be helpful. The stick isWayne's7ft 4wt. (not the Sir D). I don't own a 4wt. rod so I went ahead and triedit out with a 6wt. WF line. I guess its also confession time: this was thefirst cane rod I had actually fished, having only lawn casted a handfullbefore this morning. I bum around our local Orvis shop and cast the plasticcrap (oops) that is reputed to be the some of the best available (not toget into a comparison of relative quality of plastic rods), so I have atleast a little notion of what a good rod is supposed to be.So my overall impression of my fist cane rod is that the thing shouldbenamed "God's fishing pole." There is really no way one can compare fishingwith a cane rod to fishing plastic is my opinion. The plastic rod is deadand very predictable. The cane rod seems to have some sort of life of itsown. Fishing with this rod is more like having a conversation thancommanding something to do your will. For car people the plastic is tocaneas a corvette is to a BMW M3. The Corvette will go real fast as long as youdon't tell it to do anything too complicated; the M3 seems to anticipateyour input and always leaves you feeling that you have yet to really tapits resources.To get specific, I was able to put out 50ft of 6wt line with this 4wt.rodwithout any real effort, and I could do so with accuracy and wisper-softpresentation. With a little effort and a double haul I could get out a good65-70ft--and I cast really poorly. The rod roll casted better than anyother I have cast. I could easily present a fly to individual fish at 30ft.Once a fish was on (and that happened pretty often this morning) the rodmade 12in 'bows into real monsters. Best of all, the rod seemed to havethepotential to do all these things even better than I was getting it to do. A4wt. line and some time and this thing will be incredible. Even now it isthe best rod I have fished. So thanks to Wayne, if you're out there, for creating and publishingthistaper. It's a gem. If you're looking for a taper for your first rod, Ipromise you'll be happy with this one. Best,Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from rmoon@ida.net Wed Oct 28 12:28:06 1998 Subject: Re: Old dog learns new trick I have been making three rather heavy butt rods simultaneously. In thepast I have been a pretty loyal supporter of E. Garrison. (Although wedo have differences in some things) and in preparing the raw strips Irecall he tells us to straighten them at the nodes, but not to beconcerned with the bows in the inter nodal spaces. I have for yearsjust accepted this as gospel. After all the plane does flatten theinter nodal bow in the form. Or does it? I have been getting prettytired with these heavy strips, having to bear down to flatten them inthe form. Just as an experiment, I straightened all of the bows betweenthe nodes after I straightened the nodes. Eureka! It is almost twiceas easy to do the rough planing. I know, keep the iron sharp. I do! Any comments Ralph P.S. I am using a heat gun. I wouldn't even attempt to do it with analcohol lamp from rmoon@ida.net Wed Oct 28 12:31:36 1998 Subject: Re: First impresion Its really something, isn't it Joe? Welcome to the inner circle (thosewho have learned the truth about fly rods)Ralph from penr0295@bendnet.com Wed Oct 28 12:50:17 1998 Subject: Re: Smithwick binder Robert, there was plans for Smithwick's binder somewhere?Tom -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Smithwick binder Jerry, I agree. Mine is also very easy and nice to use. Thank you, andIan K, and Tom. Very nice design. Rob Clarke ----------From: Jerry Snider Subject: Smithwick binderDate: Wednesday, October 28, 1998 7:48 AM Glued up a new rod last night using the Smithwick binder. No twists, nokinks-- what a s-m-o-o-o-o-t-h way to bind rods. It works for me.Thanks,Tom, for such a simple idea. Jerry Snidere-mail: Sniderja@email.uc.eduhttp://www.biology.uc.edu/snider/jerry.htm from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Oct 28 12:56:35 1998 via smap(4.1) Subject: Re: Old dog learns new trick Ralph, I agree with you. I straightened the bows in the strips as well as the nodes and found that it's much easier to plane particularly when the strips still have a lot of material to be planed away. They laid in the forms well and Stanley appreciated it. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Oct 28 13:09:06 1998 Subject: Re: Smithwick binder In a message dated 10/28/98 5:55:46 PM, you wrote: Seymour - As far as I know, the only way to get one is to build it. If youcheck out Chris Bogart's web page, you will find a few pictures and adrawingof the unit. After I sent Chris the drawing, I noticed one error. The washershown behind the binding wheel should be in front of it. Chris' site can be accesed from the Rodmakers web site. Look under therodmakers page. from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Oct 28 13:17:33 1998 Subject: Re: Smithwick binder Tom, Chris Bogart has it on his page. I have a fax from Ian K. and I cansend you a copy if you would like. Rob ----------From: Thomas Penrose Subject: Re: Smithwick binderDate: Wednesday, October 28, 1998 9:28 AM Robert, there was plans for Smithwick's binder somewhere?Tom -----Original Message-----From: Robert Clarke Date: Wednesday, October 28, 1998 9:08 AMSubject: Re: Smithwick binder Jerry, I agree. Mine is also very easy and nice to use. Thank you, andIan K, and Tom. Very nice design. Rob Clarke ----------From: Jerry Snider Subject: Smithwick binderDate: Wednesday, October 28, 1998 7:48 AM Glued up a new rod last night using the Smithwick binder. No twists,nokinks-- what a s-m-o-o-o-o-t-h way to bind rods. It works for me.Thanks,Tom, for such a simple idea. Jerry Snidere-mail: Sniderja@email.uc.eduhttp://www.biology.uc.edu/snider/jerry.htm from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Oct 28 13:19:20 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Old dog learns new trick In a message dated 10/28/98 6:36:53 PM, you wrote: Ralph - I agree. I also found that is much easier to establish the correctangle if the strips aren't wiggling around. Another bit of heresy is that itis much easier to start rough planing with a "V" groove, rather than the60/90groove recommended by Garrison. Just keep flipping the strip after a fewpasses, and you will soon be at the 60* angle. The strip is held mucheasierin the V groove. It only took me 15 years to figure that one out. from mrmac@tcimet.net Wed Oct 28 13:25:58 1998 via smail with smtp (Smail-3.2.0.92 1997-Feb-9 #1 built 1998-Oct-27) Subject: Re: Smithwick binder Seymour - At least one place for the plans is:http://www.shentel.net/canerod/ Go to "Rodmaking Classes", Select"Rodmaking Tools Picture Album". The PDF link is between a couple ofthe photos. There are also plans for two other types of binders at:http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm, the Rodmakers page, a place withwhich you should become familiar as it has a great deal of useful,helpful information. mac from rmoon@ida.net Wed Oct 28 13:38:41 1998 Subject: Re: Old dog learns new trick TomNow that one, I have done from day one. I never could figure out howto build the rough form Garrison recommended. (I know, I am a klutz) soI just used my regular form until I finally built a shorter roughplaning form. You are right though. I was just rereading Kreider onthis issue. He recommends the same thing, so perhaps Ev didn't listenwell?????ThanksRalph from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Oct 28 14:04:48 1998 Subject: Re: First impresion In a message dated 10/28/98 10:34:53 AM Pacific Standard Time,rmoon@ida.netwrites: Its really something, isn't it Joe? Welcome to the inner circle (thosewho have learned the truth about fly rods) Now you have to teach him the secret handshake.Darryl from rmoon@ida.net Wed Oct 28 14:33:58 1998 Subject: Re: First impresion Sir D Has he paid his dues????Ralph from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Wed Oct 28 14:34:55 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id OAA04451 for (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id OAA11018 for ; Wed, 28 Oct1998 14:34:50 Subject: Re: First impresion All of us that built Wayne's 7ft 4wt as our first cane rod should gettogether someday and cast each other's creations. Probably be a lot ofvariation but they would all be well-loved. No micrometers allowed.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Oct 28 14:42:20 1998 0600 Subject: Re: Old dog learns new trick How are y'all going about straightening the long sweeps and bends? Andare youstraightening the strips with the grain and perpendicular to the grain(horizontally and vertically?)?Just curious,HarryCHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: Ralph,I agree with you. I straightened the bows in the strips as well as thenodes and found that it's much easier to plane particularly when thestripsstill have a lot of material to be planed away. They laid in the formswelland Stanley appreciated it.Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Oct 28 14:43:34 1998 0600 Subject: Re: First impresion Let me answer for Sir D. Yep, he sent 'em to me! InArkansas.Harry Boyd Ralph W Moon wrote: Sir D Has he paid his dues????Ralph from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Oct 28 15:08:34 1998 via smap(4.1) Subject: Re: Old dog learns new trick Harry, I use my kitchen stove top (electric) to heat the strips. I'm not worried about straightening them in the same overkill way I do after glueing, but I take out the sweeping bends etc. by heating the entire area and applying a little opposing pressure, much like straightening a set rod section during a refinish. A stove top element provides a wider area of heat then an alcohol burner for this type of straightening. I started doing this because I didn't like the bump I was getting when a bent rough strip would catch on the edge of the form groove and then flip into the groove as I proceeded with the stroke. It's much smoother with the strip sitting in the groove without having to coax it. Of course you wouldn't be doing any twisting motion while straightening, so I believe it would always be with the grain using the enamel side as a reference plane. Strips straighten very easy without much effort. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from saweiss@flash.net Wed Oct 28 15:23:37 1998 Subject: Re: First impresion -----Original Message----- Subject: First impresion Hello all,Just got back from my first trip to the water with my newly created rod.Iended up working until about 2am this morning finishing it up, then wasoff at 6 to fish. I know there are some people out their looking for theirfirst taper so perhaps some comments may be helpful. The stick isWayne's7ft 4wt. (not the Sir D). I don't own a 4wt. rod so I went ahead and triedit out with a 6wt. WF line. I guess its also confession time: this was thefirst cane rod I had actually fished, having only lawn casted a handfullbefore this morning. I bum around our local Orvis shop and cast theplasticcrap (oops) that is reputed to be the some of the best available (not toget into a comparison of relative quality of plastic rods), so I have atleast a little notion of what a good rod is supposed to be.So my overall impression of my fist cane rod is that the thing should benamed "God's fishing pole." There is really no way one can comparefishingwith a cane rod to fishing plastic is my opinion. The plastic rod is deadand very predictable. The cane rod seems to have some sort of life of itsown. Fishing with this rod is more like having a conversation thancommanding something to do your will. For car people the plastic is tocaneas a corvette is to a BMW M3. The Corvette will go real fast as long asyoudon't tell it to do anything too complicated; the M3 seems to anticipateyour input and always leaves you feeling that you have yet to really tapits resources.To get specific, I was able to put out 50ft of 6wt line with this 4wt. rodwithout any real effort, and I could do so with accuracy and wisper-softpresentation. With a little effort and a double haul I could get out a good65-70ft--and I cast really poorly. The rod roll casted better than anyother I have cast. Joseph,If it casts that well with a six, try it with a five. The four may not beenough line for average fishing distances. Sounds like the other variablesthat affect rod performance must all have added up to making your rod abetter caster with heavier lines. Many rods I have cast, graphite andbamboo, do not cast the best with the line they are rated for.Steve from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed Oct 28 15:27:56 1998 (5.5.2407.0) Subject: RE: Old dog learns new trick I used the steam from a pressure cooker coming out the pressure reliefvalveto straighten rosewood about a 1/4" thick and the linings for a bass viol,my question is seeing how almost all of us heat treat our strips afterstraightening, to get out the moisture and harden, has anybody tried thiswith bamboo. Steam under pressure increases temperature wise quite abit andit turned hard wood into silly putty without any scorching and with outmuchmoisture absorption....Is this a crack pot idea or is it possible that itcould end the node straightening problem simply and easily. The speedwhichthe wood turned totally limber was a matter of seconds and while one isclamped in a vise another could be steaming. ----------From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL[SMTP:mcdowellc@lanecc.edu] Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 1998 12:56 PM Subject: Re: Old dog learns new trick Harry, I use my kitchen stove top (electric) to heat the strips. I'm not worried about straightening them in the same overkill way I do after glueing, but I take out the sweeping bends etc. by heating the entire area and applying a little opposing pressure, much like straightening a set rod section during a refinish. A stove top element provides a wider area of heat then an alcohol burner for this type of straightening. I starteddoing this because I didn't like the bump I was getting when a bent rough strip would catch on the edge of the form groove and then flip into the grooveas I proceeded with the stroke. It's much smoother with the strip sitting in the groove without having to coax it. Of course you wouldn't be doing any twisting motion while straightening, so I believe it would always bewith the grain using the enamel side as a reference plane. Strips straighten very easy without much effort. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from saweiss@flash.net Wed Oct 28 15:29:35 1998 Subject: Re: Old dog learns new trick -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Old dog learns new trick How are y'all going about straightening the long sweeps and bends? Andareyoustraightening the strips with the grain and perpendicular to the grain(horizontally and vertically?)?Just curious,Harry Harry,In my limited experience I find that correcting lateral sweeps is best donewhen pressing nodes and heat ttreating the bound strips gets most of thevertical sweeps.Steve from jkallo@midwest.net Wed Oct 28 15:38:43 1998 Subject: RE: Old dog learns new trick Hey, this seems like a pretty good idea. I wonder if the steam fromaboiling tea pot would be enough to do it. The idea is that the moistureconducts the heat to the wood, right? Dry air is good thermal insulation.I'll have the strips for the next rod ready for straightening by the end ofthe weekend, I'll try this on one of the spare ones. I'll let you know howit works. Joe At 01:27 PM 10/28/98 -0800, you wrote:I used the steam from a pressure cooker coming out the pressure reliefvalveto straighten rosewood about a 1/4" thick and the linings for a bass viol,my question is seeing how almost all of us heat treat our strips afterstraightening, to get out the moisture and harden, has anybody tried thiswith bamboo. Steam under pressure increases temperature wise quite abit andit turned hard wood into silly putty without any scorching and with outmuchmoisture absorption....Is this a crack pot idea or is it possible that itcould end the node straightening problem simply and easily. The speedwhichthe wood turned totally limber was a matter of seconds and while one isclamped in a vise another could be steaming. ----------From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL[SMTP:mcdowellc@lanecc.edu] Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 1998 12:56 PM Subject: Re: Old dog learns new trick Harry, I use my kitchen stove top (electric) to heat the strips. I'm not worried about straightening them in the same overkill way I do after glueing, but I take out the sweeping bends etc. by heating the entirearea and applying a little opposing pressure, much like straightening a setrod section during a refinish. A stove top element provides a wider area of heat then an alcohol burner for this type of straightening. I starteddoing this because I didn't like the bump I was getting when a bent rough strip would catch on the edge of the form groove and then flip into the grooveas I proceeded with the stroke. It's much smoother with the strip sittingin the groove without having to coax it. Of course you wouldn't be doingany twisting motion while straightening, so I believe it would always bewith the grain using the enamel side as a reference plane. Strips straighten very easy without much effort. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from jkallo@midwest.net Wed Oct 28 15:45:13 1998 Subject: Re: First impresion Harry,Were the dues the driving all night to get there or the example ofstrongmoral fiber as indicated by my ability to do my duty and head home w/ohaving so much as having even gotten a good look at the river? Actually, I think the dues were paid in my interaction with thePlibond Iused the glue the strips up. Anyone who delves into that stuff bare-handeddeserves the secret handshake (hey, is that the secret handshake? A shakewith a latex glove on?). Joe At 02:42 PM 10/28/98 -0600, you wrote:Let me answer for Sir D. Yep, he sent 'em to me! InArkansas.Harry Boyd Ralph W Moon wrote: Sir D Has he paid his dues????Ralph Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Oct 28 15:50:44 1998 via smap(4.1) Subject: Steam Heat (Was Old Dog) I can attest to the fact that tea pot steam will turn a tip section into putty. Use one with a locking cap so you can lock it open while the water is boiling. A whistling teapot is like a whining dog. It can lead to insanity. One of my first bamboo rods was a Horrocks Ibbotsen Roosevelt. The tip needed straightening during the refinish process and I used steam heat because I didn't know any better. I believe I could have turned that tip into a decent bootstrap if I wanted. Since then I have always avoided moisture laden heat, but if you oven treat your rods later then maybe it doesn't matter. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from rmoon@ida.net Wed Oct 28 16:02:52 1998 Subject: Re: First impresion Joe I think that you got it!!!!!!Ralph from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Oct 28 16:04:14 1998 Subject: Re: First impresion Ralph W Moon wrote: Sir D Has he paid his dues????Ralph Let me answer for Sir D. Yep, he sent 'em to me! InArkansas.Harry Boyd Finishing your first rod and fishing with it is paying your dues.Look at what that involves:Buying or building your tools. Probably cut yourself on a spline.Sweated over your first glue up. Got glue and bamboo dustup your nose from sanding your blank. Had to wait while thePost Office delivered your ferrules. Lawn casting your rod forthe first time and wondering if it was going to snap in two rightin front of your wife. But then the magic moment - catchingthe first fish with your creation. Darryl from sshorb@ozip.net Wed Oct 28 16:10:30 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-55785U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Wed, 28 Oct 1998 16:10:52 -0600 Subject: Re: Old dog learns new trick What do y'all do about twisted stuff, where the enamal side tries totwist from horizontal to vertical? Skip from jczimny@dol.net Wed Oct 28 16:39:54 1998 Subject: Re: Old dog learns new trick Not at all. The Herter's book advocates the use of steam to straightenstrips. It should work well. And, I wouldn't worry about the moisture. Itdisapate quickly.John Z-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Old dog learns new trick I used the steam from a pressure cooker coming out the pressure reliefvalveto straighten rosewood about a 1/4" thick and the linings for a bass viol,my question is seeing how almost all of us heat treat our strips afterstraightening, to get out the moisture and harden, has anybody tried thiswith bamboo. Steam under pressure increases temperature wise quite abitandit turned hard wood into silly putty without any scorching and with outmuchmoisture absorption....Is this a crack pot idea or is it possible that itcould end the node straightening problem simply and easily. The speedwhichthe wood turned totally limber was a matter of seconds and while one isclamped in a vise another could be steaming. ----------From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL[SMTP:mcdowellc@lanecc.edu] Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 1998 12:56 PM Subject: Re: Old dog learns new trick Harry, I use my kitchen stove top (electric) to heat the strips. I'm notworried about straightening them in the same overkill way I do afterglueing, but I take out the sweeping bends etc. by heating the entirearea and applying a little opposing pressure, much like straightening a setrod section during a refinish. A stove top element provides a wider area ofheat then an alcohol burner for this type of straightening. I starteddoingthis because I didn't like the bump I was getting when a bent rough stripwould catch on the edge of the form groove and then flip into the grooveasI proceeded with the stroke. It's much smoother with the strip sittinginthe groove without having to coax it. Of course you wouldn't be doingany twisting motion while straightening, so I believe it would always bewiththe grain using the enamel side as a reference plane. Strips straightenvery easy without much effort. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from saltwein@swbell.net Wed Oct 28 16:43:14 1998 gw1adm.rcsntx.swbell.net QAA12617 Subject: Horrocks-Ibbotsen Does anyone know how to pronounce Ibbotsen? Is the Ib like in glib oris it like in jibe? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from dhaftel@att.com Wed Oct 28 16:49:04 1998 sender att.com!dhaftel (att.com!dhaftel); Wed Oct 28 12:19 CST 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) (5.5.2232.9) Subject: RE: Smithwick binder Seymour, Well... I'm afraid you can't "buy" one. Tom was generous enough, howeverto publish detailed instructions on how to make one. If you're interested,you can start by visiting his page and taking a look at the photo he hasthere. The URL is: http://members.aol.com/tsmithwick/binder.jpg. If yougoup to the parent directory (you'll see when you get there), you can find atext description of the binder as well. Chris Bogart has a rodbuilding tools album at his site that has a diagramthat is downloadable and can be read through Adobe Acrobat Reader. Hissiteis at : http://www.shentel.net/canerod/. Go to the "Rodmaking classes"frame and you'll see a link to the album. I just got done putting mine together and it works very well (Thanks TomandChris!). Hope this helps... Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Seymour Birnbaum [SMTP:birnbaum@cheme.ECHEM.CWRU.Edu]Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 1998 12:47 PM Subject: Re: Smithwick binder I am a beginner to rodbuilding and I am interested in acquiring aSmithwickbinder. Can someone point me in the right direction to locate one. Thanks. Seymour BirnbaumCase Western Reserve Universitysxb33@po.cwru.edu Robert Clarke wrote: Jerry, I agree. Mine is also very easy and nice to use. Thank you, andIan K, and Tom. Very nice design. Rob Clarke ----------From: Jerry Snider Subject: Smithwick binderDate: Wednesday, October 28, 1998 7:48 AM Glued up a new rod last night using the Smithwick binder. No twists,nokinks-- what a s-m-o-o-o-o-t-h way to bind rods. It works for me.Thanks,Tom, for such a simple idea.Jerry Snidere-mail: Sniderja@email.uc.eduhttp://www.biology.uc.edu/snider/jerry.htm -- from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Oct 28 16:58:36 1998 via smap(4.1) Subject: RE: Horrocks-Ibbotsen Steve, Good question. I always play it safe and pronounce it "H. I." Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from jaquin@netsync.net Wed Oct 28 17:26:13 1998 quartz.netsync.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA10751 for; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 18:26:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Honing leather Skip Shorb wrote: Bob; Harry's honer is like a leather grinding wheel. It works great. I'mbuilding a horizontal wheel based on a 10" table saw blade with aleather disk. I'm going to use a graver holder ( used to sharpenengraving tool bits) to hold the plane blade. I don't know if I'm goingto run it dry or not, but the suggestion about mineral oil is going tobe kept in mind as I experiment. Skiphi skip i'm basically doing the same thing using a GRS power hone(used converting a graver holder to hold plane blades, buy a General 809"off-the- stone plane blade holder at the hardware store for $18.00 Usethe time you saved to build rods. IMHO it's valuable time put a betteruse. good luck from rmoon@ida.net Wed Oct 28 17:35:52 1998 Subject: Re: Old dog learns new trick HarryBasically I am straightening with the grain, but once in a while youget a sweep perpendicular to thegrain. Particularly at the ends, and I sometimes get those. I havebeen using a little trick Max uses.That is a short slot to hold the strip while you apply pressure on it.It is actually a variation of the oldarrow straightening trick. As a heat source, I use a heat gun and keepthe strip in montion all thetime with a little pressure on it. I can feel when it begins to soften.Twists yield to the same technique Incidentally, the idea of usingsteam (or wet strips) has been dealt with by John Bokstrom, I thinkRalph from bdcreek@grand-rapids.crosswinds.net Wed Oct 28 17:46:53 1998 (envelope- from bdcreek@grand-rapids.crosswinds.net) Subject: Re: Old dog learns new trick Just remember that steam conducts the heat equally well to your skin.Steam burns are really painful. (Do you think the old rod shops had OSHA problems, safety glasses forvisitors, and safety committees?) ;^)Brian from sshorb@ozip.net Wed Oct 28 18:15:35 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-55785U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Wed, 28 Oct 1998 18:15:58 -0600 Subject: Re: Honing leather Jerry; That's where I got my idea, can't afford the commercial one. Thegraver holder I've got is a GRS, I think. It has three horizontal poststhat open under spring pressure and holds the bit/blade and fits on a3/8" post so it will hold the blade square to the wheel. I'll probablyuse the other one also, since I have one. Thanks Skip from Fallcreek9@aol.com Wed Oct 28 18:24:06 1998 Subject: Re: Dial Caliper V-Block Rick: Sorry to get back to you so late. Have been unable to keep up withthelist to any reasonable degree for the last couple of weeks. I releived the bottom of the V on my V-block with a thin hack saw bladejustenough to insure no interference there. Have not filed the slot as Chrissuggestes, but sounds like a great idea that will truely enhance thedevice,and will act on it soon. In the meantime, you will have an idea what the reading range should be,soknow which tenth of inch is being considered. Have to admit, though, thatIhave a second caliper and often check to make sure, for starters. Btw, ifyouget another caliper, you might consider the grey, plastic one. It hasmarkings to only .01", but has a 1/64" scale on the dial face in addition tothe decimal scale, plus has a round wire instead of a blade for depthmeasurements. Very handy for measuring the depth of ferrules which aretoosmall for the blade type probe. Cost is in the $25 neighborhood. Have seenthem in catalogs as well as major home improvement centers, such asHome Depotin our area. Hope this helps. Regards,Richard from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Oct 28 18:31:06 1998 Subject: Broken Heddons List,I have been fishing Heddons going on 30 years and have never had one failatthis juncture. I have seen South Bends fail here but usually it wassomeonenot knowing the proper way to fight a fish.Bret from swilson1@WHC.NET Wed Oct 28 18:37:00 1998 ; Subject: Re: Smithwick binder I can't get the drawings from Chris' site. How can I get copies/plans? Thanks, Scott Wilson from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Oct 28 18:39:03 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Starving glue joints? List,I have had a lot of experience thru the years of gluing things togethersuchas when making furniture and other things. I have always applied the glueandlet it sit for a few minutes to work its way into the dry wood, bamboo etc.before clamping and have never once had anything come apart. Try thisaproachnext time you are working with scarf joints and I don't believe you shouldhave anymore problems with delamination. Most woodworking guides evensuggestthis.Bret from sshorb@ozip.net Wed Oct 28 18:42:00 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-55785U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Wed, 28 Oct 1998 18:42:28 -0600 Subject: id old flyline I have some old fly line I got 35-40 years ago and used on a found canerod. Both look like they are woven and are coated with something(plastic?) that is still soft and pliable. One is orange (.040 dia) andthe other is dark brown (.030 dia), maintaining the same diameter fortheir full length. Are they a coated silk or what?TIASkip from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Oct 28 19:07:14 1998 Subject: Bokstrom Splitting Article To All. Thanks to John Bokstrom cooperation I've put together a PDF versionof his excellent article that appeared recently in the Planing Form and that was presented at Corbett Lake. A HTML version is on Frank Neunemann's web site. I put it on my web site (www.shentel.net/canerod)on rodmaking classes / tool page - it is at the top of the page - just clickon it. from maxs@geocities.co.jp Wed Oct 28 19:09:14 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id KAA28956for; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 10:09:09 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Why I Dip SalarFly@aol.com wrote: Actually since that first one I have gone to just a small holedrilled in the bottom of the tube. I use a cork to plug it whenI fill it and put the rod in, then just pull the cork, and drain itback into the varnish can. Darryl Sir. D,I used one inch internal diameter of PVC tube, and I drilled 6mm diam.hole at the bottom of the pipe. I took a bath together with the pvc andput water in the pipe to experiment how fast the surface comes down. Ittook only 10 seconds to exhasut the water. According to the Garrison'sbook, he pulled up the dipped sections at a rate of 4 inches per aminute. I'm planning to insert a brass pipe to the hole connecting totropical fish water pipe with a cock to control drain rate.How big is your hole's diameter? Is 4 inches per minute reasonablespeed? How is your case?Thanks, Max-- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from maxs@geocities.co.jp Wed Oct 28 19:25:53 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id KAA13351for; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 10:25:49 +0900 (JST) Subject: Sir D type dip tube Hi all,As some might know, I am under construction of Sir D type dip tubeswhich is posted in my web.I have a slight problem of keeping the dipped section as straightdownward. That will cause the rod section touchces to the wall of PVCpipe (I use 1" internal diameter to save amount of fluid). I thoughttwo methods, one is to keep the pipe stand up exactly 90 degrees (thisrequires too precise control), next is to prevent the section untouchedwith the wall.I'd like to choice the second solution. I guess there was such a threadbefore, but it is too hard to find it. Suggestion again is appreciatedhow to prevent the section attach to the wall.Thanks, Max-- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from ljrp@penn.com Wed Oct 28 19:33:38 1998 Subject: Re: id old flyline Try to stretch the line silk doesn't stretch nylon does Skip Shorb wrote: I have some old fly line I got 35-40 years ago and used on a found canerod. Both look like they are woven and are coated with something(plastic?) that is still soft and pliable. One is orange (.040 dia) andthe other is dark brown (.030 dia), maintaining the same diameter fortheir full length. Are they a coated silk or what?TIASkip from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Oct 28 19:36:17 1998 Subject: Re: Re: First impresion Joe,I've used Pliobond to glue cork and ferrules but never thought to try it toglue the strips together. I assume from your post that you did just thatandwere successfull. Let me know if I've misinterpreted your postRegards.Hank. from CALucker@aol.com Wed Oct 28 19:39:07 1998 Subject: Re: id old flyline In a message dated 10/28/98 5:34:05 PM Pacific Standard Time,ljrp@penn.comwrites: Or to confuse matters, it could be nylon and silk, as in later Hardy Coronaand King Eider silk lines. The blended lines won't stretch. It's odd thatfolks nowadays chase after these blended lines when there are somebetterlines out there without the Hardy name.Chris Lucker from ljrp@penn.com Wed Oct 28 19:44:44 1998 Subject: Re: Rod Mweasurements Some of you fellows asked for rod measurements, I have been quite busyand unlessyou have a specific rod I would like to wait till Jan or Feb. to do thesemeasurements; will do them then OK??Tony Spezio wrote: No finer words can be said for Mr. Harvey. I have traded flies with himand tiedat same shows with him. I have a shadow box with three of his fliescoming thatis in the mail now.Can't wait till I get them so I can display them to all.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Dick Fogel wrote: Soon to be published book on the life and adventures of George Harvey,he is80 plus years and a wonderful person; still ties the finest dry flies Ihaveever seen. Book is in soft cover and a limited edition, can't wait to getmine. PS his leaders are great!! Best Dick Fogel from Central Pa. Michael Dell wrote: You can find a George Harvey leader in this article on VFS: http://www.flyshop.com/Tactics/01-97Leaders/index.html The formulas are also published in George Harvery's book (I can'trememberthe title) and Joe Humprhrey's book Trout Tactics. Michael MICHAEL DELL email: mdell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca http://www.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/trout from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Oct 28 19:49:56 1998 Subject: Re: Sir D type dip tube Max,Try attaching a bent paper clip to the rod section so both ends of theclipkeep the section from touching the wall. I the section is hanging free youmight have to use 2 clips.Regards,Hank. from chris@artistree.com Wed Oct 28 20:03:30 1998 Subject: Re: Sir D type dip tube Max,A recent post had the good suggestion of doing the following. Attach anadapter (for lack of a better word) to the the top of PVC. This adaptershould have a large I.D., say 1.5" or 2" and gradually taper down to the1" PVC. Since the varnish really only goes on the rod at the very top ofdip tube this gives you a greater surface area and less of a problem ofrod touching inner walls of tube. I have seen these PVC adapters and areused to connect two differnt size pipes together in plumbing supplystores. | | 1.5" to 2" width| || || || || || || || | 1" PVC| || || | Best Regards,Chris Wohlford Max Satoh wrote: Hi all,As some might know, I am under construction of Sir D type dip tubeswhich is posted in my web.I have a slight problem of keeping the dipped section as straightdownward. That will cause the rod section touchces to the wall of PVCpipe (I use 1" internal diameter to save amount of fluid). I thoughttwo methods, one is to keep the pipe stand up exactly 90 degrees (thisrequires too precise control), next is to prevent the section untouchedwith the wall.I'd like to choice the second solution. I guess there was such a threadbefore, but it is too hard to find it. Suggestion again is appreciatedhow to prevent the section attach to the wall.Thanks, Max--Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from sshorb@ozip.net Wed Oct 28 20:14:40 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-55785U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Wed, 28 Oct 1998 20:15:07 -0600 Subject: Re: id old flyline They stretch. Thanks for the info. Skip from Canerods@aol.com Wed Oct 28 20:28:46 1998 Subject: Re: Broken Heddons In a message dated 10/28/98 4:36:08 PM Pacific Standard Time,Grhghlndr@aol.com writes: Bret, I've had to scarf repair many Heddon mids and/or tips broken near theferrules. I think it is caused by twisting the sections to seat/pull theferrules apart because most of the broken sections also had delaminationsatthe break(s). Don Burns from sats@gte.net Wed Oct 28 20:48:24 1998 Subject: Re: First impresion All of us that built Wayne's 7ft 4wt as our first cane rod should gettogether someday and cast each other's creations. Probably be a lot ofvariation but they would all be well-loved. No micrometers allowed. That would be like tying the Adams.... And you're probably right, no two would be the same. But then would youwantthem too? Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from sats@gte.net Wed Oct 28 20:48:26 1998 Subject: Re: Growing your own cane I would try this for fly rod after searching its strength. If I taperit rather thicker than Tonkin, it might be used for fly rod, even if thepower fiber is thinner than Tonkin. I wonder how different types of Bamboo would be in rods? Differenttapers, intheory, should make up for the difference in type. But I believe the weightwould be excessive. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from sats@gte.net Wed Oct 28 20:48:29 1998 Subject: Re: Rod Identification update! Well I got out my calipers and measured the rod, the interesting thing isithas the same measurments (within one thousandth) as that as the rod inthelovely reed by Halstead.Only mine is a 3 piece, not a 2 piece. I am notgetting my hopes up, but this has made me even more interested infinding outthe true origin / maker of this rod. Any suggestions would be helpful! Remember Kent, Whoever made that rod made it to catch fish, not set in a tube. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from sats@gte.net Wed Oct 28 20:48:30 1998 Subject: Re: Thanks For The Hat Hope you can join us again next year, and if you do make it down, I'llagain tryto trick you into fishing sub-surface! Preacher, Did I tell you about the 14in. I took just below the dam? On a Yellowhumpy!!! Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from bacon@idt.net Wed Oct 28 21:02:08 1998 Subject: Re: Returning to this list SalarFly@aol.com wrote: I'm sitting here admiring a bit of history, a bit of wonderment,a bit of nostalgia. It is conjuring up scenes of a smooth flowingchalk stream through a green meadow. It is a rod, bamboo ofcourse, made by P.D. Malloch. 8' 6" long, in three pieces, thecane is blonde, the wraps are dark red, the stripper and tip tophave agatine inserts, and there are 105 intermediate wrapsevenly spaced from tip to handle. This is not an old rod in needof restoration, I could take it out and fish with it this minute ifI had a stream nearby. The varnish is new and flawless. The wonderment I am feeling is because a kind and generousman, whom I would have never met except through this list sentit to me. Looking at this rod has caused me to think about theother kind and generous people on this list. Tom Smithwicksent me an old calcutta cane rod, and I still owe him a GreenHighlander for it. The fly is very late in going out to him, butnot a peep about what I owe him. Several people have writtento me urging me to return to the list. I took their words veryseriously and each one of them influenced me more and moreto return to the list. Where else could I get a standing invitationto fish the Test if I ever visit England? So, I am back on this list. I believe I am back for good. Thenext time a message raises my ire and I want to post an unkindretort I will take the Malloch out of it's case, admire it, remindmyself what the vast majority of people on this list are like, andhit the delete key instead of signing off. Darryl Hayashidadarryl,what a beautiful letter, life's too short, look for the good,(sorry to pollute the list)jean from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Oct 28 21:06:57 1998 Thu, 29 Oct 1998 11:06:39 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: First impresion On Wed, 28 Oct 1998 SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 10/28/98 10:34:53 AM Pacific Standard Time,rmoon@ida.netwrites: Its really something, isn't it Joe? Welcome to the inner circle (thosewho have learned the truth about fly rods) Now you have to teach him the secret handshake.Darryl Is that the one with uneven pressure from the fingers due to all the cane cuts?;-) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Oct 29 00:11:26 1998 Subject: Re: Why I Dip In a message dated 10/28/98 5:14:58 PM Pacific Standard Time,maxs@geocities.co.jp writes: Sir. D,I used one inch internal diameter of PVC tube, and I drilled 6mm diam.hole at the bottom of the pipe. I took a bath together with the pvc andput water in the pipe to experiment how fast the surface comes down. Ittook only 10 seconds to exhasut the water. According to the Garrison'sbook, he pulled up the dipped sections at a rate of 4 inches per aminute. I'm planning to insert a brass pipe to the hole connecting totropical fish water pipe with a cock to control drain rate.How big is your hole's diameter? Is 4 inches per minute reasonablespeed? How is your case?Thanks, The viscosity of the fluid has a lot to do with the drain rate alongwith the size of the hole. 6 mm is about 1/4 inch? The viscosityof varnish is a lot more than water, and I use a hole about 1/8inch. My drain rate is between 1 and 2 inches per minute. Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Oct 29 00:27:18 1998 Subject: Why Straight? I've been casting and fishing with quite a few older and justdownright old bamboo rods lately. One thing I have noticedis that very few of them are straight. Almost all of them havea set in them. The set doesn't seem to matter a bit as faras casting or landing a fish. When we make a rod we make them as straight as we can(at least I do) . Is this neccessary? Other than for appearance sake, why do rods have to be straight? Darryl from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Oct 29 00:28:46 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Rod Identification again? Node spacing won't do it (all this info is according to Martin Keane...I'vebeen talking to him about my alleged "Halstead"). While late in his careerHalstead settled on 2X2, early on he did various things including randomnode spacing. Also, on reel seats, he did both all metal and ones withwooden spacers. Later in his career, he stamped "G. Halstead, maker" onhisreelseats but early on he penned his name on the rod shaft. Martin did saythat there was one confirming feature that was on all genuine Halsteadrodsthat he'd seen (I won't give that feature here...nobody wants counterfeitHalstead rods out there) but from the photo on E-Bay, it looked to me likethe "Halstead" that I got, had that feature...should know for sure next weekas the rod is on its way to Martin Keane (and as luck would have it, GeorgeHalstead's widow is still alive and a friend of his...he's going to try tohave her look at it, too). George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Rod Identification again? Kent, If the seller told you it was a refinished Heddon then it likely is. It'snot a comment that someone would offer up if it was a potential Halsteadrod. If it is a 8 1/2' Heddon then the price you paid is still reasonable.Either way you didn't pay too much. Heddon rods are usually not difficultto identify even without the writing. If someone on the list is familiarwith the node spacing of a Halstead rod that may be a quick way toconfirm. haveused the 3x3 node spacing that Leonard did (I believe I'm right on this).Heddon rods do not use 3x3. Winding checks and ferrules are anothermeansto identify. Unfortunately I've not seen a Halstead so I don't have anyknowledge of their construction. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Oct 29 00:34:29 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Rod Identification again? You wished correction:Martin Keane told me that the delamination was a myth...that someoneoncewrote that and the article/book that contained that was used as areference ofsense too...since Halstead and Gillum quite often worked on rods together,and Gillum was never accused of having a "delamination problem" andGillumused Halstead-made ferrules, don't you think Gillum would have helped himout if he did have such a problem? Just a thought,George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Rod Identification again? Some Halsteads have G. H. Halstead Rods on the locking ring if soequipped.I also want to be corrected in that he lived in Brewster N. Y., not Conn.asI previously indicated Many of Pinky Gillums early rods had Halsteadferrules, he eventually used Super Z's after Halsteads death. If memoryserves me correctly, Halstead rods may delaminate as he did not use firstrate glues.Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 1998 11:20 AM Subject: RE: Rod Identification again? Kent, If the seller told you it was a refinished Heddon then itlikely is. It'snot a comment that someone would offer up if it was apotential Halsteadrod. If it is a 8 1/2' Heddon then the price you paid isstill reasonable.Either way you didn't pay too much. Heddon rods areusually not difficultto identify even without the writing. If someone on thelist is familiarwith the node spacing of a Halstead rod that may be a quickway to confirm. he may haveused the 3x3 node spacing that Leonard did (I believe I'mright on this).Heddon rods do not use 3x3. Winding checks and ferrulesare another meansto identify. Unfortunately I've not seen a Halstead so Idon't have anyknowledge of their construction. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Oct 29 01:05:43 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Rod Identification again? Sorry...should have been 2x2x2-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Rod Identification again? Node spacing won't do it (all this info is according to Martin Keane...I'vebeen talking to him about my alleged "Halstead"). While late in his careerHalstead settled on 2X2, early on he did various things including randomnode spacing. Also, on reel seats, he did both all metal and ones withwooden spacers. Later in his career, he stamped "G. Halstead, maker" onhisreelseats but early on he penned his name on the rod shaft. Martin did saythat there was one confirming feature that was on all genuine Halsteadrodsthat he'd seen (I won't give that feature here...nobody wants counterfeitHalstead rods out there) but from the photo on E-Bay, it looked to me likethe "Halstead" that I got, had that feature...should know for sure nextweekas the rod is on its way to Martin Keane (and as luck would have it,GeorgeHalstead's widow is still alive and a friend of his...he's going to try tohave her look at it, too). George Bourke-----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL Date: Wednesday, October 28, 1998 8:37 AMSubject: RE: Rod Identification again? Kent, If the seller told you it was a refinished Heddon then it likely is. It'snot a comment that someone would offer up if it was a potentialHalsteadrod. If it is a 8 1/2' Heddon then the price you paid is stillreasonable.Either way you didn't pay too much. Heddon rods are usually notdifficultto identify even without the writing. If someone on the list is familiarwith the node spacing of a Halstead rod that may be a quick way toconfirm. have>>used the 3x3 node spacing that Leonard did (I believe I'm right onthis).Heddon rods do not use 3x3. Winding checks and ferrules are anothermeansto identify. Unfortunately I've not seen a Halstead so I don't have anyknowledge of their construction. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from MICK@welfen-netz.com Thu Oct 29 03:37:01 1998 [195.143.56.1]with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Thu,29 Oct 199810:35:05 +0100 Subject: Re: Why Straight? I had the same question when I was talking to the late Bruno Kurt (soldme one of his forms due to retirement) and he answered: 'nature is notstraight and what else is a bamboo rod as a fine part of nature'.This answer gave me a bit of relief in my struggle for a straight rod.Nevertheless I try to make a rod as straight as possible still knowingone can't compete with the straightnes of a "industrial plastic rod".nil desperandumtight linesMichael SalarFly@aol.com wrote: I've been casting and fishing with quite a few older and justdownright old bamboo rods lately. One thing I have noticedis that very few of them are straight. Almost all of them havea set in them. The set doesn't seem to matter a bit as faras casting or landing a fish. When we make a rod we make them as straight as we can(at least I do) . Is this neccessary? Other than for appearancesake, why do rods have to be straight? Darryl from rcurry@top.monad.net Thu Oct 29 04:51:55 1998 Subject: Re: id old flyline Skip Shorb wrote: They stretch. Thanks for the info. SkipSkip,Just to confuse things, the weave of some silk lines was "soft" andthese would stretch.The absolutely sure way to determine would be to hold a lightedmatchunder one end. Silk gives off the odor of burning hair (to determinethis smell, switch your wife's hair dryer for your heat gun); nylongives off a sweet smell and forms a hard plastic blob.BTW, the level lines you have are G (.030) and E (.040).Best regards,Reed from rcurry@top.monad.net Thu Oct 29 05:02:05 1998 Subject: Re: Rod Identification again? irish-george wrote: You wished correction:Martin Keane told me that the delamination was a myth...that someoneoncewrote that and the article/book that contained that was used as areference ofsense too...since Halstead and Gillum quite often worked on rodstogether,and Gillum was never accused of having a "delamination problem" andGillumused Halstead-made ferrules, don't you think Gillum would have helpedhimout if he did have such a problem? Just a thought,George BourkeGeorge,Even if I didn't have hard evidence of the "myth" in hand, i.e., adelaminated Halstead butt, I would still ask Martin for his proof of itsmythical nature. How did he say he had established this as a falsehood?Ever curious,Reed from m.boretti@agonet.it Thu Oct 29 06:17:07 1998 Subject: Info about Set Up Bellinger Beveler machine MESSAGE FOR MR. JOHN ZIMNYDear Mr.Zimny,I have got your name by Mr, Gary Lohkamp.I bougth one Bewllinger Beveler Machine many months ago, but I am notableto make the correct Set Up for making Wooden Forms Patterns, for planetheBamboo Strips.Can you help me ?How can cut the correct Taper ( Final or near Final ) in the wooden Forms ?How can I use the Dial Indicator put in the Machine for Making The WoodenForms ?Please, send me info about these problems, and I can put my services toyour disposal for any problems you might have in my country or Europe. Sincerely,Marco Boretti. PS . I am a friends of Ron Barch.Drawing explanation are welcome. MARCO BORETTIVia Boselli Bonini 1329100 Piacenza ( Italy )Fx. 0039 - 523 - 320088 from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Oct 29 07:00:48 1998 Thu, 29 Oct 1998 21:00:31 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Why Straight? On Thu, 29 Oct 1998 SalarFly@aol.com wrote: I've been casting and fishing with quite a few older and justdownright old bamboo rods lately. One thing I have noticedis that very few of them are straight. Almost all of them havea set in them. The set doesn't seem to matter a bit as faras casting or landing a fish. When we make a rod we make them as straight as we can(at least I do) . Is this neccessary? Other than for appearance sake, why do rods have to be straight? Darryl from what I've seen straightness to a very large extent is only cosmetic, as everything seems to work ok during casting. Still, I guess it's like saying it dosn't *realy* matter if the splines have huge gaps and the reel seat is not in line etc. None of prob matters in use but ...... Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Thu Oct 29 07:07:34 1998 IAA16765 Subject: RE: Rod Identification again? The statement was printed in Allan J. Liu's, American Sporting CollectorsHandbook! How come we see many more Gillums and Garrisons for salethanHalsteads (did they not survive)? While he (Halstead) built less thanthem,very rarely does one come to market, why? Do we need to questioneverythingwe read? (Have always read that Indians were the first Americans, nowsomeorganization who found a skeleton in Washington is saying they were not!)Has Martin Keene never seen a delaminated Halstead? Why would Liu statethat in his book??? Lets keep mind that this section of the book waswritten by Len Codella with Ernie Schwiebert. I will ask Ernie if this isfact or fiction! Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, October 29, 1998 1:41 AM Subject: Re: Rod Identification again? You wished correction:Martin Keane told me that the delamination was a myth...thatsomeone oncewrote that and the article/book that contained that was usedas a reference Makes a lot ofsense too...since Halstead and Gillum quite often worked onrods together,and Gillum was never accused of having a "delaminationproblem" and Gillumused Halstead-made ferrules, don't you think Gillum wouldhave helped himout if he did have such a problem? Just a thought,George Bourke-----Original Message-----From: Hanzich, Al (MLPT) Date: Wednesday, October 28, 1998 9:03 AMSubject: RE: Rod Identification again? Some Halsteads have G. H. Halstead Rods on the locking ringif so equipped.I also want to be corrected in that he lived in Brewster N.Y., not Conn.asI previously indicated Many of Pinky Gillums early rodshad Halsteadferrules, he eventually used Super Z's after Halsteadsdeath. If memoryserves me correctly, Halstead rods may delaminate as he didnot use firstrate glues.Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 1998 11:20 AM Subject: RE: Rod Identification again? Kent, If the seller told you it was a refinished Heddon then itlikely is. It'snot a comment that someone would offer up if it was apotential Halsteadrod. If it is a 8 1/2' Heddon then the price you paid isstill reasonable.Either way you didn't pay too much. Heddon rods areusually not difficultto identify even without the writing. If someone on thelist is familiarwith the node spacing of a Halstead rod that may be aquickway to confirm. thenhe may haveused the 3x3 node spacing that Leonard did (I believe I'mright on this).Heddon rods do not use 3x3. Winding checks and ferrulesare another meansto identify. Unfortunately I've not seen a Halstead so Idon't have anyknowledge of their construction. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from sniderja@email.uc.edu Thu Oct 29 07:15:22 1998 Subject: THE handshake I thought ALL of you folks knew the bamboo rod fly fishers handshake-- justtook it for granted. You grasp you partner's hand, give it a littletremble, then JERK! J. Snider from arnold_jeff@hotmail.com Thu Oct 29 08:08:47 1998 0000 Thu, 29 Oct 1998 06:08:39 PST Subject: Pliobond Where is Pliobond sold? I haven't seen it in any of the department stores or hardware stores that I frequent. Is this found in the flyfishing catalogs or woodworking catalogs? Jeff ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from sshorb@ozip.net Thu Oct 29 08:31:26 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-55785U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Thu, 29 Oct 1998 08:31:54 -0600 Subject: Re: id old flyline Reed; I sacrificed a 1/4 " off one, scraped the coating off and lighted it .It blobs up, turned black and hard and actually burned like a piece ofnylon rope, couldn't smell any thing tho. I suppose a hybrid,nylon/silk, would do he same thing.ThanksSkip from sniderja@email.uc.edu Thu Oct 29 08:37:11 1998 Subject: Re: Pliobond Most major hardware stores have Pliobond--look in the glues/cementssection. I recently purchased a bottle of Pliobond to use for attachingleaders to fly lines at Furrows. It also comes in tubes and huge tins.(Jeff, my replies are still being bounced.)J. Snider. At 06:08 AM 10/29/98 PST, you wrote:Where is Pliobond sold? I haven't seen it in any of the department stores or hardware stores that I frequent. Is this found in the flyfishing catalogs or woodworking catalogs? Jeff ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Jerry Snidere-mail: Sniderja@email.uc.eduhttp://www.biology.uc.edu/snider/jerry.htm from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Thu Oct 29 09:41:16 1998 0500 Subject: Re[2]: Why Straight? Even graphite rods have a spine and I have always spined the blanks before building the rods. Whether this really does matter in casting I don't know. It probably has an effect, but whether this is noticable or not, or is just a psychological thing, I don't know. I think you would have to compare before and after the bamboo rod is straightened. What might be fine might be noticably better once straightened. Also it is probably a question of degree. If it's a BIG set, or in a particular direction that's out of the plane of an individual's casting stroke, straightening it may make a perceivable difference, but otherwise not. Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Why Straight? Author: at Tcpgate I had the same question when I was talking to the late Bruno Kurt (soldme one of his forms due to retirement) and he answered: 'nature is notstraight and what else is a bamboo rod as a fine part of nature'.This answer gave me a bit of relief in my struggle for a straight rod.Nevertheless I try to make a rod as straight as possible still knowingone can't compete with the straightnes of a "industrial plastic rod".nil desperandumtight linesMichael SalarFly@aol.com wrote: I've been casting and fishing with quite a few older and justdownright old bamboo rods lately. One thing I have noticedis that very few of them are straight. Almost all of them havea set in them. The set doesn't seem to matter a bit as faras casting or landing a fish. When we make a rod we make them as straight as we can(at least I do) . Is this neccessary? Other than for appearancesake, why do rods have to be straight? Darryl from jkallo@midwest.net Thu Oct 29 09:46:00 1998 Subject: Re: Pliobond Hey all,I just realised that I wrote that I used pliobond to glue strips. Thatshould have been Probond--elmer's polyurethane glue. Sorry 'bout thatHank. Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from mrmac@tcimet.net Thu Oct 29 10:06:12 1998 via smail with smtp (Smail-3.2.0.92 1997-Feb-9 #1 built 1998-Oct-27) Subject: Doublebuilt? What does it mean that a rod was "doublebuilt"? I have seen referencesto rods being built that way, but have not been able to find anydefinition of just what it means. Appreciate the help - thanks. mac from dellc@nextdim.com Thu Oct 29 10:07:47 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id AFAB43D01E4; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 07:54:19 PDT Subject: Re: Why Straight? Maybe it doesn't matter if it isn't straight in the casting plane but if itisn't straight from side to side it will be apt to not cast straight to yourtarget.Dell Coppock-----Original Message----- Subject: Why Straight? I've been casting and fishing with quite a few older and justdownright old bamboo rods lately. One thing I have noticedis that very few of them are straight. Almost all of them havea set in them. The set doesn't seem to matter a bit as faras casting or landing a fish. When we make a rod we make them as straight as we can(at least I do) . Is this neccessary? Other than for appearancesake, why do rods have to be straight? Darryl from ray_mccaleb@oit.peachnet.edu Thu Oct 29 10:19:16 1998 SMTP id LAA13038 Subject: RE: Pliobond Jeff wrote:Where is Pliobond sold? I haven't seen it in any of the departmentstores or hardware stores... Jeff,You might try a local hobby shop. The model train guys use it for bondingtrack to a base. Ray from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Oct 29 10:28:00 1998 Subject: Re: First impresion In a message dated 10/28/98 1:48:28 PM Pacific Standard Time,jkallo@midwest.net writes: (hey, is that the secret handshake? A shake with a latex glove on?). That or a glue encrusted hand.... Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Oct 29 10:28:44 1998 Subject: Re: Why Straight? In a message dated 10/29/98 1:42:14 AM Pacific Standard Time,MICK@welfen-netz.com writes: Nevertheless I try to make a rod as straight as possible still knowingone can't compete with the straightnes of a "industrial plastic rod". Have you ever sighted down a graphite blank? Rods withguides already on look straight due to the eye tending tofollow the guides rather than the rod. I looked at a coupledozen graphite blanks - these were firsts, not seconds orblems, and not one of them were perfectly straight. That'sanother myth about plastic rods. Darryl from bdcreek@grand-rapids.crosswinds.net Thu Oct 29 10:41:56 1998 (envelope- from bdcreek@grand-rapids.crosswinds.net) Subject: Re: Doublebuilt? Doublebuilt was an attempt to get more bamboo power fibers in a,usually, heavier butt section. You'd flat plane two strips of cane andremove most of the pith from one section you would then glue to the backof the inner section. Then plane, etc., as normal.As I understand it the added weight sometimes off-set the addedpower fibers in the rod's performance. A better way to achieve powerfulrod butt sections is to hollow build them, as in Winstons. However,I've never cast a double built rod, so this is all theoretical on mypart. Brian from rmoon@ida.net Thu Oct 29 10:44:44 1998 Subject: Re: Doublebuilt? Ralph Each strip is composed of two outer layers of powerfibers laminatedtogether. The strip is then planed to the triangular shape sice eachstrip has two pieces there are 12 to a section. Hence Boublebuilt.Rueben Cross and Southbend probably produced the largest number ofdoublebuilt rods, although manyother rod makers used the concept.Ralph from arnold_jeff@hotmail.com Thu Oct 29 11:17:43 1998 Thu, 29 Oct 1998 09:17:36 PST Subject: Re: Re[2]: Why Straight? Andy, one thing that I might add on finding the spine and its effect. If the guides are placed on the spine or opposite of the spine you can adjust how the rod casts for power. If the rod is finished with the spine to the side and there is a dominant spine to the rod you may notice the rod "roll over" when fighting a fish. This is very aggravating to me when I see one of the "infomercials", touted as a flyfishing show, and the host is pushing their sponsors cheap rods. They almost always get "roll over" when fighting a fish. This is just my $.02 worth. Jeff Even graphite rods have a spine and I have always spined the blanks before building the rods. Whether this really does matter in casting I don't know. It probably has an effect, but whether this is noticable or not, or is just a psychological thing, I don't know. I think you would have to compare before and after the bamboo rod is straightened. What might be fine might be noticably better once straightened. Also it is probably a question of degree. If it's a BIG set, or in a particular direction that's out of the plane of an individual's casting stroke, straightening it may make a perceivable difference, but otherwise not. Andy ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Thu Oct 29 11:35:12 1998 0500 Subject: Re[2]: Why Straight? The graphite blanks I have used have all had a spine. In one case the rod had 2. However, these bends were pretty slight and probably didn;t make a difference in performance. I have seen some with pretty dramatic twists and turns, but these were all seconds...I cast one of them and it also seemed to cast very well! ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Why Straight? Author: at Tcpgate In a message dated 10/29/98 1:42:14 AM Pacific Standard Time,MICK@welfen-netz.com writes: Nevertheless I try to make a rod as straight as possible still knowingone can't compete with the straightnes of a "industrial plastic rod". Have you ever sighted down a graphite blank? Rods withguides already on look straight due to the eye tending tofollow the guides rather than the rod. I looked at a coupledozen graphite blanks - these were firsts, not seconds orblems, and not one of them were perfectly straight. That'sanother myth about plastic rods. Darryl from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Thu Oct 29 12:03:41 1998 MAINE.maine.edu (IBMVM SMTP Level 310) via TCP with SMTP ; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 13:02:16 EST Subject: Dip tube trials Max, I've run oh a dozen or more trials with the Sir D Dip, and ran intomost of the problems you and others have mentioned. To avoid "kissing"where the blank snugs up against the side of the tube, I constructed aframe that holds the tube perfectly vertical, then I carved a plug to fitin the top of the tube. The plug spands the top of the tube like a spokein a wheel, but does not cover it. In the center is a hole in which fits adowel. The other end of the dowel is inserted in the female end of theferrule mounted on the section being dipped. This holds the sectionrigidly centered in the tube. For the female section, the ferrule end isinserted direcly into the plug. Same effect. There are other solutionsincluding using copper pipe (pvc is cheap), or a bigger dia tube (silly,requires too much varnish), or attaching "stars" at the end of the sectionbeing dipped to prevent "kissing" (works well too, but I found the abovemethod easier). The other problem is mastering the drain rate. This turned out to be veryinteresting. First, different brands of varnish vary enormously in theirviscosity, and this really surprised me. Some sure, but I found hugedifferences as they effected drain rates. More interesting, was the discovery that temp. also had a surprisingly bigeffect. A perfect drain rate at 80deg. was entirely too slow when thesamevarnish was at 65, or example. So now I dip with everything at 80 deg,varnish, tube, rod, and room. Without controling temp you won't be able tocontrol the drain rate quite as easily. Finally, the other feature I found regardless of the temp. I was workingat, is that the drain rates vary widely depending on how much varnish is inthe tube, which makes sense when you think about it. Varnish is heavy.Basically the first 25" of the tube might drain at 4"/min, while the last25" at 1"/min. This variation was a huge surprise to me. So, I triedvarious methods to slow the drain rate on the upper section. You can andit's a big pain in the butt, becasue it's messy and guess what--It'sdoesn't seem to matter at all. With a 4"/min drain on the upper section,and 1" on the lower I got perfect results- -a nice blem free light coat ofvarnish, and a much unexpected set of lessons in a whole mess of stuff. Also I'm now filtering the varnish as it is poured into the tube. And, Ibuilt the fame holding the tube with space under it to hold a plasticbucket. Cleaning up a half qt of spilled varnish on carpeting is not fun,but curiosly now that it's dryed you can hardly tell, just a littlestiffness. Hope that helps, Bob. PS: The appropriate size of the hole? Try some and quickly you'll find oneto suit your varnish and situation. be At 10:26 AM 10/29/98 +0900, you wrote:Hi all,As some might know, I am under construction of Sir D type dip tubeswhich is posted in my web.I have a slight problem of keeping the dipped section as straightdownward. That will cause the rod section touchces to the wall of PVCpipe (I use 1" internal diameter to save amount of fluid). I thoughttwo methods, one is to keep the pipe stand up exactly 90 degrees (thisrequires too precise control), next is to prevent the section untouchedwith the wall.I'd like to choice the second solution. I guess there was such a threadbefore, but it is too hard to find it. Suggestion again is appreciatedhow to prevent the section attach to the wall.Thanks, Max--Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html Robert M. Milardo, Ph.D.17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581-3128 from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Thu Oct 29 12:27:36 1998 ; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 07:27:18 +1300 Subject: list absent My email has been down for several days as a result of a teenage sondeciding to make a few small changes " to speed up the system". It hasmeantany email sent to me recently has ended up in some great mailbox off incyberspace . Last time I was off this list I returned to find both Sir D and St Wayne hadleft . It is great to return this time and see that Sir D has returned .Darryl , do not forget that there is also a bed down here on the edge ofthe Motueka ,which is one of the better brown trout rivers in the world (? ). Hmmm.. I wonder if I withdraw my "advice" to my son as to what wouldhappenif he fiddled with the computor again the result would be once again beingcast into cyber space , and upon the eventual return to the list I wouldfind that Wayne has returned in my absence. This musing , which is sort of a waste of band space ,(sorry) is based onsome fishing friends theories that I am a Jonah , and no good fish will becaught in my presense. IankIan Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz from thramer@presys.com Thu Oct 29 12:36:42 1998 0000 Subject: Plastic Rods & Splines I have noticed that even those grossly overpriced(overmarketed?) plasticthings are not splined from the factory, a procedure that even therankest bamboo beginner would not skip. The rodbuying public isapparently so ignorant of quality construction methods that they do notcare or complain. I think that is one reason why a custom built plasticrod seems to cast better.A.J.Thramer from ljrp@penn.com Thu Oct 29 12:50:29 1998 Subject: Re: Plastic Rods & Splines That's a BIG Amen don't believe the ladies spline the rods when they finishthem A.J.Thramer wrote: I have noticed that even those grossly overpriced(overmarketed?) plasticthings are not splined from the factory, a procedure that even therankest bamboo beginner would not skip. The rodbuying public isapparently so ignorant of quality construction methods that they do notcare or complain. I think that is one reason why a custom built plasticrod seems to cast better.A.J.Thramer from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Oct 29 13:06:35 1998 via smap(4.1) Subject: Rodmakers Biographies Many of you may already know of this website, and perhaps someone here developed it, but I hadn't seen it before. It gives a brief biography of many of the famous bamboo rodmakers of the past. http://www.bobwhite.com/bamboo/rod_makers.htm Take a look. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Oct 29 13:19:35 1998 Subject: Re: Dip tube trials In a message dated 10/29/98 10:09:19 AM Pacific Standard Time,RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu writes: So, I triedvarious methods to slow the drain rate on the upper section. You canandit's a big pain in the butt, becasue it's messy and guess what-- It'sdoesn't seem to matter at all. With a 4"/min drain on the upper section,and 1" on the lower I got perfect results--a nice blem free light coat ofvarnish Now that I have someone to back me up on this using thedrain the tube method, let me go out on a limb and saydrain rate doesn't matter. As long as it's reasonable, andyou are finishing a blank - not a rod with the guides on.With a rod with the guides on go as slow as possible,1 to 2" per minute at the top. That gives plenty of time forthe varnish to drip off of the guides as the varnish drains. I think because I let the varnish set up inside the tube,and since it's enclosed, the varnish takes a lot longer toset up, giving it time to level out. One thing that helps viscosity control is adding thinner. Slower drain rates because of colder temperatures doesn'tseem to matter either. But living in Southern California I don't get really cold temperatures as others might . Filtering the varnish is a must. The drain hole will clog if youdon't. I'm happy you are getting good results with this method.The best feature? A professional finish and spending only about $30 including varnish. Darryl from sshorb@ozip.net Thu Oct 29 13:35:43 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-55785U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Thu, 29 Oct 1998 13:36:20 -0600 Subject: power fiber List; Assuming repeatability for the sake discussion, if two rods are madewith the same taper, one using the smaller available culm and the otherusing the larger grade, will the difference in the thickness of thepower fibers significantly change the action of the taper. I roughmeasured the only bamboo I have, all 1 and 1/2 pieces, and got thefollowing:1/2 (6 ', small dia)butt - ~.18 thk, pf - ~.09tip- ~.16, pf - ~.075full length ( over 2" dia)butt - ~.3, pf - ~.13mid - ~.2, pf - ~.11tip - ~.17, pf - ~.1The differences in the thickness in the two grades seems to cause adifference in the amount of power fiber available. Then I looked at thetapers in Wayne's book. Two piece rods generally have a thickness of ~.2(+ or -). from about the midpoint of the rod to ~.3 at the butt. Therecould be a difference of .02 or more between the power fiber availableand that required for the rod. My question is: do you have to allow forthe difference in amount of power fiber available at the affectedstations when planing the strips? I'm still in the steep part of the learning curve, increasing myknowledge, building needed tools, and practicing on a poor piece ofbamboo.Thanks to everyone for the help I've received.Skip from gwr@seanet.com Thu Oct 29 13:38:11 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA15270 for; Thu, Subject: Re: Plastic Rods & Splines boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01BE0330.D9138040" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BE0330.D9138040 boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0013_01BE0330.D9138040" ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01BE0330.D9138040 A.J. & all, Not only do THEY not spine the rods, they take strange pride in not =doing so. Last year I met with the VP of a major WA state plastic rod =making firm for a plant tour. When asked about spining the rods he =laughed and said it didn't matter on anything except heavy saltwater =casting rods. He went on to claim that the entire notion of spining a =rod was concocted by custom builders like myself who needed to come up=with a sales tool for marketing over-priced custom rods. He laid most =of the blame for this on Dale Clemens & his book.He went on to explain how his "girls" positioned the guides when =wrapping: on the opposite side of the curve that was inherent to plastic =rods in order to straighten the rods out for the showroom floors in =tackle shops. They wrap their rods for deception, not performance. There are many reasons I'm shifting towards cane in my business, the =attitude of many major plastics manufacturers being prime among Russ Golden Witch Rods - "Tools For Natural Philosophy"Golden Witch Technologies, Inc. - "The Golden Age Is Now"gwr@seanet.comhttp://www.goldenwitch.com -----Original Message-----From: A.J.Thramer Date: Thursday, October 29, 1998 10:47 AMSubject: Plastic Rods & Splines I have noticed that even those grossly overpriced(overmarketed?) =plasticthings are not splined from the factory, a procedure that even therankest bamboo beginner would not skip. The rodbuying public isapparently so ignorant of quality construction methods that they do =notcare or complain. I think that is one reason why a custom built =plasticrod seems to cast better.A.J.Thramer ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01BE0330.D9138040 A.J. & =all, only = with the VP of a major WA state plastic rod making firm for a plant = When asked about spining the rods he laughed and said it didn't matter = entire notion of spining a rod was concocted by custom builders like = needed to come up with a sales tool for marketing over-priced custom = He laid most of the blame for this on Dale Clemens & his =book. went = the opposite side of the curve that was inherent to plastic rods in = There = reasons I'm shifting towards cane in my business, the attitude of many = Russ = "Tools For Natural Philosophy"Golden Witch -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Thursday, October 29, 1998 10:47 AMSubject: Plastic = & SplinesI have noticed that even those = overpriced(overmarketed?) plasticthings are not splined from the = factory, a procedure that even therankest bamboo beginner would = construction methods that they do notcare or complain. I think = better.A.J.Thramer ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01BE0330.D9138040-- ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BE0330.D9138040 name="Golden Witch.vcf" filename="Golden Witch.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDN:Gooding;John;R.FN:Golden WitchORG:Golden WitchTITLE:Rod Maker &c.TEL;WORK;VOICE:(425) 787- 6599TEL;PAGER;VOICE:noneTEL;WORK;FAX:noneADR;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A;Lynnwood;WA;98037;USALABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A=3D0D=3D0ALynnwood, WA =98037=3D0D=3D0AUSAURL:noneURL:http://www.goldenwitch.comEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:gwr@seanet.comEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BE0330.D9138040-- from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Thu Oct 29 13:44:30 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Thu,29Oct 1998 14:52:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Sir D type dip tube It really isn't difficult to make sure the tube is straight up in the air. Use carpenters levels . I took a board, drilled a hole through it big enough for the tube but not the collar. Attach this to a bench and let the tube hang or let it touch the floor but adjust the axis based on a vertical carpenters level (wish I knew what it is called, glass tube with bubble in it.) You can let the section hang over the tube middle of the tube. Lower it, and remove. Should have no problems. Hope this helps. On 29 Oct 98, at 10:26, Max Satoh wrote: Hi all,As some might know, I am under construction of Sir D type dip tubeswhich is posted in my web.I have a slight problem of keeping the dipped section as straightdownward. That will cause the rod section touchces to the wall of PVCpipe (I use 1" internal diameter to save amount of fluid). I thought twomethods, one is to keep the pipe stand up exactly 90 degrees (thisrequires too precise control), next is to prevent the section untouchedwith the wall. I'd like to choice the second solution. I guess there wassuch a thread before, but it is too hard to find it. Suggestion again isappreciated how to prevent the section attach to the wall. Thanks, Max-- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.munrorodco.com from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Oct 29 14:00:30 1998 via smap(4.1) Subject: Straight Dip Tubes I withdraw the rod sections from the dip tube so I need as much clearance as possible between tube and ceiling for the longer two piece rods. I dropped the tube through a vent opening in the floor and gained about 18". I stuff tennis shoes, Nike brand, into the vent and against the tube to prop it up straight. I then wrap a heavy blanket around the base of the tube and over the vent area to suppress airflow should my furnace come on during dipping. Don't want any potential dust blowing around. I consider myself a genius. Comments? Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Thu Oct 29 14:03:37 1998 Subject: Fiberglass vs. Mineral Wool (Rock Wool) Michael,You got my curiosity up, so I contacted one of the vendors who suppliesthe company I work for to find out the difference between fiberglass andmineral wool. What follows is what he sent me. Fiber Glass: Nature and ApplicationFiber glass in one member of a family of products known collectively asMan-Made Vitreous Fibers (MMVF). This nomenclature is due to theirsynthetic, amorphous, and glassy nature. The family of products issometimes referred to as Man-Made Mineral Fibers (MMMF), or SyntheticVitreous Fibers (SVF). In addition the fiber glass, this generic groupof products includes stone and slag (Mineral) wool, and refractoryceramic fiber (RCF). These products are all created from molten massesof differing raw materials under highly controlled conditions.Distinctions between these families can be readily seen in Table 1.This bulletin concentrates only on information and studies relating tofiber glass. MMVF Compositions and Properties In general, fiberglass may be distinguished from the other MMVF families compositions are based on a borosilicate network, i.e, the glasscomprising the fiber contains chemically bound B2O3 in its structure,(2) most fiber glass compositions contain relatively high amounts ofalkali (sodium plus potassium), and (3) most fiberglass compositions canbe melted at "low temperatures" ( from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Oct 29 14:27:31 1998 0600 Subject: Re: power fiber Skip,To give the short answer, no. Adequate power fiber is adequate powerfiber. You don't adjust your planing or your target dimensions based onavailable power fiber. However, you may want to adjust which part of therod comes from that part of the culm. But you have touched on a subjectabout which there is some debate. Doyou need power fibers all the way through a cross section of the triangleyou are forming? Some say yes, others say no. Many say only the outerfewthousandths of power fiber are critical, a few others say you can scrapeaway the outer few thousandths. Some say you need a gradual decrease inthedensity of power fibers from enamel side in towards the center whileotherssay that you want a strip where power fibers fall off rapidly to pith nearthe center of the rod. I think it's Jack Howell's recent book that mentionssome makers even turn a questionable culm butt section around and usethebutt end of the section for the ferruled end of the butt rather than thegrip end, in order to insure that under the ferrule the cross section issolid power fibers.IMHO, just remember than you want power fibers in as much of the rodaspossible. With a minimum thickness of ~.09, you'll probably be okay,unlessyou go to something in a rod that is really long and heavy. That ~.09translates into .180 out of the ~ .280 -.325 dimensions at the butt of alight rod.Hope this helps. By the way, if the cane you have is some you picked upat SRG, it's fine. At least it looked that way to me.Regards,HarryPS - How's Jim progressing? (A question for off-list) Skip Shorb wrote: snipwith the same taper, one using the smaller available culm and the otherusing the larger grade, will the difference in the thickness of thepower fibers significantly change the action of the taper. >snip from ljrp@penn.com Thu Oct 29 14:36:11 1998 Subject: Re: Straight Dip Tubes That's about all nike shoes are god for!! CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: I withdraw the rod sections from the dip tube so I need as muchclearanceas possible between tube and ceiling for the longer two piece rods. Idropped the tube through a vent opening in the floor and gained about 18".I stuff tennis shoes, Nike brand, into the vent and against the tube toprop it up straight. I then wrap a heavy blanket around the base of thetube and over the vent area to suppress airflow should my furnace comeonduring dipping. Don't want any potential dust blowing around. I considermyself a genius. Comments? Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Thu Oct 29 15:04:16 1998 0500 Subject: splitting I just got my first three culms and can hardly wait to go. But the holybooks of St. Wayne and Garrison both instruct that I must first start acheck split and wait some unspecified length of time for it to extenddown the length of the culm before I can split out strips. So here's mydumb newbie question: do I HAFTA? What if I don't? And how long isthis seasoning process supposed to take, anyway? Sign me,Hot to Trot from jczimny@dol.net Thu Oct 29 15:09:01 1998 Subject: Re: Info about Set Up Bellinger Beveler machine Dear Marco,Determine the taper per centimeter that you wish to use on your form.Then,after you have cut the pattern, place shims( I use small pieces of .002 and.005 brass) under the pattern so that one side is higher than the otherside.Next use your flat cutter to machine the top of the pattern so that thecuttercan engage the entire pattern in one pass. Take out the shims, reverse thepattern and you are ready to mount the 60 degree cutter. Run the cuttersoveruntil most of the unneeded wood is gone. Put a nail in the front of thepattern, mount your first strip. Then machine. Try not to take 1/20 to1/10 MMper pass of the cutters.I hope that this has helped and the idioms that I've used areunderstandable toyou.John Marco Boretti wrote: MESSAGE FOR MR. JOHN ZIMNYDear Mr.Zimny,I have got your name by Mr, Gary Lohkamp.I bougth one Bewllinger Beveler Machine many months ago, but I am notableto make the correct Set Up for making Wooden Forms Patterns, for planetheBamboo Strips.Can you help me ?How can cut the correct Taper ( Final or near Final ) in the wooden Forms?How can I use the Dial Indicator put in the Machine for Making TheWoodenForms ?Please, send me info about these problems, and I can put my services toyour disposal for any problems you might have in my country or Europe. Sincerely,Marco Boretti. PS . I am a friends of Ron Barch.Drawing explanation are welcome. MARCO BORETTIVia Boselli Bonini 1329100 Piacenza ( Italy )Fx. 0039 - 523 - 320088 from anglport@con2.com Thu Oct 29 15:31:57 1998 Subject: Re: Straight Dip Tubes Chris,Sounds like genius to me!Art At 11:58 AM 10/29/98 PST, you wrote:I withdraw the rod sections from the dip tube so I need as muchclearance as possible between tube and ceiling ... I consider myself a genius. Comments? Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Thu Oct 29 15:58:10 1998 16:00:09-0600 R8.20.00.25) Subject: Re: Straight Dip Tubes I can only assume the Nikes are cross trainers?Jon McAnulty ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Straight Dip Tubes Author: at Internet-Mail I withdraw the rod sections from the dip tube so I need as much clearance as possible between tube and ceiling for the longer two piece rods. I dropped the tube through a vent opening in the floor and gained about 18". I stuff tennis shoes, Nike brand, into the vent and against the tube to prop it up straight. I then wrap a heavy blanket around the base of the tube and over the vent area to suppress airflow should my furnace come on during dipping. Don't want any potential dust blowing around. I consider myself a genius. Comments? Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Oct 29 16:00:23 1998 Subject: Re: splitting In a message dated 10/29/98 1:11:30 PM Pacific Standard Time,SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us writes: And how long isthis seasoning process supposed to take, anyway? 25 years. Just kidding. Go ahead and start. Heat treating, especiallyif you are going to flame your culm, will take care of the seasoning. Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Oct 29 16:48:19 1998 Subject: Re: THE handshake In a message dated 10/29/98 5:16:07 AM Pacific Standard Time,sniderja@email.uc.edu writes: I thought ALL of you folks knew the bamboo rod fly fishers handshake-- justtook it for granted. You grasp you partner's hand, give it a littletremble, then JERK! No, no, no! You grasp your partner's hand, give it a little tremble, then say"God save the Queen" and lift smoothly.... Darryl from MICK@welfen-netz.com Thu Oct 29 17:16:19 1998 [195.143.56.1]with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Fri,30 Oct 199800:15:07 +0100 Subject: Re: THE handshake SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 10/29/98 5:16:07 AM Pacific Standard Time,sniderja@email.uc.edu writes: I thought ALL of you folks knew the bamboo rod fly fishers handshake-- justtook it for granted. You grasp you partner's hand, give it a littletremble, then JERK! No, no, no! You grasp your partner's hand, give it a little tremble, thensay"God save the Queen" and lift smoothly.... Darryl Are you sure about the part 'God save the queen'? :)Mick from sjstill@iquest.net Thu Oct 29 17:30:01 1998 0000 (209.43.49.213) Subject: Driggs taper Hi All, I have no idea where in the archives to look for the Driggs taper. Anyonehave one laying around handy? I think I'd like to build one here shortly. Regards, Steve Steve and Julie Stillabower, Indianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net from rcurry@top.monad.net Thu Oct 29 17:41:22 1998 Subject: When is a Leonard not a Leonard All,Gary D. and I had a discussion over dinner at Roscoe regarding theauthenticity of makers wares. For example, I think we agreed that if themaker owned the rights to the Leonard name, his rods could be marketedas Leonards, with the original stamp, etc. (I would appreciate a date,as well.)But what about the case of someone getting a batch of blanks,unferruled, made by a famous maker. Could one assemble them and put theoriginal "maker's" name on? I say "No", because the final choice ofcutting to length and ferrulling might have been done differently by theoriginal craftsman, hence a different rod. Certainly, one could give dueacknowledgement to the maker of the blank; but not as the rodbuilder.Am I out to lunch?Best regards,Reed from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Oct 29 17:57:25 1998 Subject: Re: THE handshake In a message dated 10/29/98 3:22:07 PM Pacific Standard Time,MICK@welfen-netz.com writes: Are you sure about the part 'God save the queen'? :)Mick Okay, "God Bless America". I was trying to stay withtradition.Darryl from emiller257@dataflo.net Thu Oct 29 18:14:29 1998 wddataflo.dataflo.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA13115 for Subject: Re: Pliobond Joseph S.Kallo wrote: Hey all,I just realised that I wrote that I used pliobond to glue strips. Thatshould have been Probond--elmer's polyurethane glue. Sorry 'bout thatHank. Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale Joe , what can you tell usabout probond? How long is the working time? What has been your experience and what lead you to using it? Please advise. Ed Miller from CALucker@aol.com Thu Oct 29 18:15:29 1998 Subject: Re: THE handshake In a message dated 10/29/98 2:50:31 PM Pacific Standard Time,SalarFly@aol.comwrites: So what did the Queen Mother say when she caught her record salmon onthe Tay?Chris Lucker from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Oct 29 18:20:30 1998 via smap(4.1) Subject: RE: When is a Leonard not a Leonard Reed, This is one of those situations that is open to interpretation, but I agree with the way you see it. I think it would be appropriate to identify the blank maker along with the builder. Rods that are restored or refinished should also be noted as such to a buyer. It would even be best to explain what part of the rod was restored. Varnish coat only or rewrapped etc. When we start concerning ourselves with what part of a rod is original we are really trying to decipher a value. We all know that a Leonard in good condition that is sold as an original is worth more than a Leonard in good condition noted as an original blank finished out by so and so. It has little to do with the mechanics of the rod and in fact the guy finishing out the blank may do a better job overall, but given this definite difference in value I think it's important for the buyer to be aware of the entire picture. Even a rod that will be used for personal use only in the present time will someday be sold to someone. That's my opinion. Iwonder if the contemporary rodmakers who sell unfinished blanks to customerssign and number these blanks. My guess is that they don't, but I don't know. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Oct 29 18:23:31 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Doublebuilt? Being from So. Bend I have seen and cast my share of dbl built So. BendsandCross rods. I had 2 brand new Cross dbl builts in my shop when I had itand Icast them just last summer. One word I can say about dbl builts is HEAVY. Iknow that some of you will never have the pleasure of seeing or castingthesebut you have not missed anything. One mans opinion.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Oct 29 18:41:42 1998 Subject: Re: Re: splitting Go ahead and get started. The flaming and heat treating take care of anynon-seasoning you haven't done. Bret from jaquin@netsync.net Thu Oct 29 18:42:43 1998 quartz.netsync.net(8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA26173 for ;Thu, 29 Oct1998 19:42:38 -0500 Subject: Re: id old flyline Dick Fogel wrote: Try to stretch the line silk doesn't stretch nylon does Skip Shorb wrote: I have some old fly line I got 35-40 years ago and used on a found canerod. Both look like they are woven and are coated with something(plastic?) that is still soft and pliable. One is orange (.040 dia) andthe other is dark brown (.030 dia), maintaining the same diameter fortheir full length. Are they a coated silk or what?TIASkiphi skip, to check to see if they are old silk lines, light the endswith a match, nylon will melt and ball up to form a drop. on a silkline the outer coating will burn off as will the silk, but the silk willleave a gray ash. don't burn the house down trying this =). from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Thu Oct 29 18:47:16 1998 18:46:39 ix16.ix.netcom.comvia smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Why Straight? When I was young and just beginning to study electronics, everything wasvacuum tubes that were hand wired together. I worked for an electricianwho gave me some sage advice. Upon learning that I was studyingelectronics, he looked me straight in the eye and said "Always makesquarebends!" Believe it or not, I understood his meaning. Years later I taught a shop class for electronic technicians. I had anopportunity to study the performance of projects built by the studentscompared to the quality of their work. Those who strove for excellenceand"made square bends" never seemed to have problems getting projects toworkproperly. Those who took shortcuts in an attempt to get the project over,always had problems. I guess that I believe that if I address theaesthetics, the difficult issues will take care of themselves. Just a pearl of worthless wisdom. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 01:25 AM 10/29/98 EST, you wrote: I've been casting and fishing with quite a few older and justdownright old bamboo rods lately. One thing I have noticedis that very few of them are straight. Almost all of them havea set in them. The set doesn't seem to matter a bit as faras casting or landing a fish. When we make a rod we make them as straight as we can(at least I do) . Is this neccessary? Other than for appearance sake, why do rods have to be straight? Darryl from MICK@welfen-netz.com Thu Oct 29 18:48:03 1998 [195.143.56.1]with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Fri,30 Oct 199801:47:30 +0100 Subject: Re: Doublebuilt? a couple of years ago I had a chance to lawncast a 14' (?) double built anddoublehanded Milward #10wt. the guides were tied with copper wire andthe rod washeavy. I cant imagine to fish it a whole session. imho its useles to doublebuilta rod because the center of a rod is the place of the neutral fibres whicharejust bringing weight to the rod. Hollow built rods are the better solutionimho.Mick Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Being from So. Bend I have seen and cast my share of dbl built So. BendsandCross rods. I had 2 brand new Cross dbl builts in my shop when I had itand Icast them just last summer. One word I can say about dbl builts isHEAVY. Iknow that some of you will never have the pleasure of seeing or castingthesebut you have not missed anything. One mans opinion.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Oct 29 18:50:24 1998 Subject: Re: Re: THE handshake/Please no more Guys,Lets not let this one get out of hand like some of these kind of posts havebefore. Do us all a favor and please keep the list to pertinent posts.On the band wagon again. No need for any comments to this post. Thanks!Bret from sjstill@iquest.net Thu Oct 29 19:02:43 1998 0000 (209.43.53.152) Subject: Rough Beveller Hi All, Well, I just got one thing accomplished - I got a rough beveller madetoday!Used my old Shopsmith Joint-matic and a couple shop made contraptions.Works great on strips from an old babmoo rake - still working up the gutstotry a real strip. Tomorrow! Will try to take a picture if anyone isinterested. Regards, Steve Steve and Julie Stillabower, Indianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Thu Oct 29 19:25:10 1998 Subject: Re: Doublebuilt? There is a Cross DB closing on eBay in about an hour. item=37436708 Pics: http://members.aol.com/HECKHECK/cross1.jpg http://members.aol.com/HECKHECK/cross.jpg Regards, Bobflysupplies@yahoo.com On Thu, 29 Oct 1998 Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Being from So. Bend I have seen and cast my share of dbl built So. BendsandCross rods. I had 2 brand new Cross dbl builts in my shop when I had itand Icast them just last summer. One word I can say about dbl builts isHEAVY. Iknow that some of you will never have the pleasure of seeing or castingthesebut you have not missed anything. One mans opinion.Bret from bacon@idt.net Thu Oct 29 19:25:31 1998 Subject: Re: Why Straight? andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com wrote: Even graphite rods have a spine and I have always spined the blanksbefore building the rods. Whether this really does matter in casting Idon't know. It probably has an effect, but whether this is noticableor not, or is just a psychological thing, I don't know. I think youwould have to compare before and after the bamboo rod isstraightened.What might be fine might be noticably better once straightened. Also it is probably a question of degree. If it's a BIG set, or in aparticular direction that's out of the plane of an individual'scasting stroke, straightening it may make a perceivable difference,but otherwise not. Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Why Straight?Author: at TcpgateDate: 10/29/98 4:30 AM I had the same question when I was talking to the late Bruno Kurt (soldme one of his forms due to retirement) and he answered: 'nature is notstraight and what else is a bamboo rod as a fine part of nature'.This answer gave me a bit of relief in my struggle for a straight rod.Nevertheless I try to make a rod as straight as possible still knowingone can't compete with the straightnes of a "industrial plastic rod".nil desperandumtight linesMichael SalarFly@aol.com wrote: I've been casting and fishing with quite a few older and justdownright old bamboo rods lately. One thing I have noticedis that very few of them are straight. Almost all of them havea set in them. The set doesn't seem to matter a bit as faras casting or landing a fish. When we make a rod we make them as straight as we can(at least I do) . Is this neccessary? Other than for appearancesake, why do rods have to be straight? Darrylguys,in graphite rodmaking, it's called a spline, is it called a "spine" incanerod building, is it the same thing?thanks for the info,jean (bacon@idt.net) from robert.kope@MCI2000.com Thu Oct 29 19:40:26 1998 with SMTP id forRODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu;Fri, 30 Oct 1998 01:39:53 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Drip tube boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE0363.410BF1A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE0363.410BF1A0 Darryl (and the list), Welcome back. I noticed in your reply to Satoh-san that you dip rods =before wrapping the guides. I assume that this is because you cannot =clear the finish from the guides, or pause to let the varnish drain =after a guide emerges while it is inside the drip tube. This had =occurred to me, but I lacked information about dipping before wrapping. =Both the old and new testaments (Garrison/Carmichael and Cattanach)only =discuss dipping after wrapping in depth. Sinclair also only discusses =varnishing after wrapping the guides. I have my first rod ready to dip and was planning on using the drip tube =method. However, I have already wrapped the guides and sealed the =wraps. The rod (a Cattanach "Sir D", of course) is complete except for =the varnish and final fitting the ferrules. I'm using spar urethane and =was unsure at what point to apply the finish if I varnished the rod =before wrapping. My question(s) to you and the rest of the list are these: at what point =do you dip your rods? Do you dip the raw blank, mount the ferules =first, install the grip and reel seat first, apply butt and ferrule =wraps first?. Do I need to abandon my plan to use the drip method and =pull this rod from the tube? Thanks in advance for your sage advice. -- Robert Kope ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE0363.410BF1A0 Darryl (and the list), to = because you cannot clear the finish from the guides, or pause to let the = occurred to me, but I lacked information about dipping before = Both the old and new testaments (Garrison/Carmichael and Cattanach)only = after wrapping the guides. I have my first rod ready to dip and was planning on= the wraps. The rod (a Cattanach "Sir D", of course) is = and was unsure at what point to apply the finish if I varnished the rod = wrapping. mount the ferules first, install the grip and reel seat first, apply = and pull this rod from the tube? Thanks in advance for your sageadvice. -- Robert Kope ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE0363.410BF1A0-- from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Oct 29 19:47:53 1998 Subject: Re: power fiber Skip,If the power fibers are thick enough to cover the thickness of the 6 (or 5or 4) strips I'm about to plane then I should be all right-this is assumingthat the variation from tip to butt of the culm is more or less constantJudgement of the power fibers' depth comes with experience (some of itbad).So if the tip end of the tip culm has enough depth of fiber and the butt endof the tip culm has enough depth of fiber your tip strip should be ok, etc.Hope this helps Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Oct 29 19:47:57 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Pliobond Thanks for the correction, Joe. I may still have a lifetime supply ofPliobond.Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Oct 29 19:48:05 1998 Subject: Re: When is a Leonard not a Leonard Nope.Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Oct 29 19:48:16 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Why Straight? Hey,Gang,Have any of you looked closely at an "industrial plastic" rod lately- noneof 'em are straight!Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Oct 29 19:50:14 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Sir D type dip tube Chris,If Max is using a drip dip tube the adapter won't work as he's not pullingthe stick out but draining the varnish out of the bottom of the tube.Hank. from bacon@idt.net Thu Oct 29 19:51:49 1998 Subject: Re: Plastic Rods & Splines Golden Witch wrote: A.J. & all, Not only do THEY not spine the rods, they take strange pride innot doing so. Last year I met with the VP of a major WA state plasticrod making firm for a plant tour. When asked about spining the rodshe laughed and said it didn't matter on anything except heavysaltwater casting rods. He went on to claim that the entire notion ofspining a rod was concocted by custom builders like myself who neededto come up with a sales tool for marketing over-priced custom rods.He laid most of the blame for this on Dale Clemens & his book.He went on to explain how his "girls" positioned the guides whenwrapping: on the opposite side of the curve that was inherent toplastic rods in order to straighten the rods out for the showroomfloors in tackle shops. They wrap their rods for deception, notperformance. There are many reasons I'm shifting towards cane in my business,the attitude of many major plastics manufacturers being prime amongthem. Russ Golden Witch Rods - "Tools For Natural Philosophy"Golden Witch Technologies, Inc. - "The Golden Age Is Now"gwr@seanet.comhttp://www.goldenwitch.com -----Original Message-----From: A.J.Thramer Date: Thursday, October 29, 1998 10:47 AMSubject: Plastic Rods & Splines I have noticed that even those grosslyoverpriced(overmarketed?) plasticthings are not splined from the factory, a procedure thateven therankest bamboo beginner would not skip. The rodbuying publicisapparently so ignorant of quality construction methods thatthey do notcare or complain. I think that is one reason why a custombuilt plasticrod seems to cast better.A.J.Thramer Name: Golden Witch.vcfPart 1.2 Type: text/x-vcardEncoding: quoted- printableruss,was that lady bashing?, by you, or by the VP? does using the term"girls", mean that they are dumber, please explain...i always havetrouble finding the spline, but have now become more adept sincebuilding a coupla "plastic" rods. (such an ugly word..PLASTIC)..when ifinally do complete my first canerod, does that mean, icanneverturnback?jean (bacon@idt.net) from ragnarig@integrityol.com Thu Oct 29 20:04:00 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A0CD3FC0118; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 18:13:33 PDT Subject: Re: list absent Due to this being my peak fishing season and the workload being at an alltime high, I'm afraid I just don't have time to even delete all the posts.I promise I'll be back soon, but for now, I have no choice but to gooff-list for a while. As to the cork order, I'm sending it out and all whose checks have arrivedwill be included: those whose checks have not... I'll be back and make an announcement when it gets in, but for now, happytrails. Darryl, I'm really glad to see you're back- good on ya! I expectyou all to behave yourselves in my absence and feel free to use my emailtosay hi, rant about other list members or generaly lie about fishing. Cheers,Davy -----Original Message----- Subject: list absent My email has been down for several days as a result of a teenage sondeciding to make a few small changes " to speed up the system". It hasmeantany email sent to me recently has ended up in some great mailbox off incyberspace . Last time I was off this list I returned to find both Sir D and St Waynehadleft . It is great to return this time and see that Sir D has returned .Darryl , do not forget that there is also a bed down here on the edge ofthe Motueka ,which is one of the better brown trout rivers in the world? ). Hmmm.. I wonder if I withdraw my "advice" to my son as to what wouldhappenif he fiddled with the computor again the result would be once againbeingcast into cyber space , and upon the eventual return to the list I wouldfind that Wayne has returned in my absence. This musing , which is sort of a waste of band space ,(sorry) is based onsome fishing friends theories that I am a Jonah , and no good fish will becaught in my presense. IankIan Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374RichmondNew Zealand email inak@ts.co.nz from jaquin@netsync.net Thu Oct 29 20:30:12 1998 quartz.netsync.net(8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA05014 for ;Thu, 29 Oct1998 21:29:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Plastic Rods & Splines Golden Witch wrote: A.J. & all, Not only do THEY not spine the rods, they take strange pride innot doing so. Last year I met with the VP of a major WA state plasticrod making firm for a plant tour. When asked about spining the rodshe laughed and said it didn't matter on anything except heavysaltwater casting rods. He went on to claim that the entire notion ofspining a rod was concocted by custom builders like myself who neededto come up with a sales tool for marketing over-priced custom rods.He laid most of the blame for this on Dale Clemens & his book.He went on to explain how his "girls" positioned the guides whenwrapping: on the opposite side of the curve that was inherent toplastic rods in order to straighten the rods out for the showroomfloors in tackle shops. They wrap their rods for deception, notperformance. There are many reasons I'm shifting towards cane in my business,the attitude of many major plastics manufacturers being prime amongthem. Russ Golden Witch Rods - "Tools For Natural Philosophy"Golden Witch Technologies, Inc. - "The Golden Age Is Now"gwr@seanet.comhttp://www.goldenwitch.com -----Original Message-----From: A.J.Thramer Date: Thursday, October 29, 1998 10:47 AMSubject: Plastic Rods & Splines I have noticed that even those grosslyoverpriced(overmarketed?) plasticthings are not splined from the factory, a procedure thateven therankest bamboo beginner would not skip. The rodbuying publicisapparently so ignorant of quality construction methods thatthey do notcare or complain. I think that is one reason why a custombuilt plasticrod seems to cast better.A.J.Thramer Name: Golden Witch.vcfPart 1.2 Type: text/x-vcardEncoding: quoted- printablehi russ, that's an interesting story about the graphite rodmanufacturer. His "girls" were actually wraping the guides correctly onthe rods. He was probably a "marketing man" rather than a rod designerso he didn't know the technical reson for wrapping the guides on thestrong side of the spline. it has to do with the change from tention tocompression on the outside fibers of the rod as it is flexed. Ifollowed a threat on Dan blanton saltwater fly fihing web page, and theknowledgeable rod builders were quite adamant about positioning theguides on the strong side, clamiming the glass rods could/will shatterunder the strain of trowing lead-core shooting heads if the guide arewrapped on the weak side of the spline. ps. i don't see the merit of bashing glass rod builders. everybody hassomething worth contributing to our sport both building rods andfly- fishing. so pick the best ideas from both groups and get on withit!! lifes too short! from jfoster@gte.net Thu Oct 29 20:39:17 1998 Subject: Re: Rough Beveller Hi Steve Yes we want to see your beveller... jerry from bacon@idt.net Thu Oct 29 20:50:00 1998 Subject: Re: Plastic Rods & Splines Jerry Quinn wrote: Golden Witch wrote: A.J. & all, Not only do THEY not spine the rods, they take strange pride innot doing so. Last year I met with the VP of a major WA state plasticrod making firm for a plant tour. When asked about spining the rodshe laughed and said it didn't matter on anything except heavysaltwater casting rods. He went on to claim that the entire notion ofspining a rod was concocted by custom builders like myself who neededto come up with a sales tool for marketing over-priced custom rods.He laid most of the blame for this on Dale Clemens & his book.He went on to explain how his "girls" positioned the guides whenwrapping: on the opposite side of the curve that was inherent toplastic rods in order to straighten the rods out for the showroomfloors in tackle shops. They wrap their rods for deception, notperformance. There are many reasons I'm shifting towards cane in my business,the attitude of many major plastics manufacturers being prime amongthem. Russ Golden Witch Rods - "Tools For Natural Philosophy"Golden Witch Technologies, Inc. - "The Golden Age Is Now"gwr@seanet.comhttp://www.goldenwitch.com -----Original Message-----From: A.J.Thramer Date: Thursday, October 29, 1998 10:47 AMSubject: Plastic Rods & Splines I have noticed that even those grosslyoverpriced(overmarketed?) plasticthings are not splined from the factory, a procedure thateven therankest bamboo beginner would not skip. The rodbuying publicisapparently so ignorant of quality construction methods thatthey do notcare or complain. I think that is one reason why a custombuilt plasticrod seems to cast better.A.J.Thramer Name: Golden Witch.vcfPart 1.2 Type: text/x-vcardEncoding: quoted- printablehi russ, that's an interesting story about the graphite rodmanufacturer. His "girls" were actually wraping the guides correctly onthe rods. He was probably a "marketing man" rather than a rod designerso he didn't know the technical reson for wrapping the guides on thestrong side of the spline. it has to do with the change from tention tocompression on the outside fibers of the rod as it is flexed. Ifollowed a threat on Dan blanton saltwater fly fihing web page, and theknowledgeable rod builders were quite adamant about positioning theguides on the strong side, clamiming the glass rods could/will shatterunder the strain of trowing lead-core shooting heads if the guide arewrapped on the weak side of the spline. ps. i don't see the merit of bashing glass rod builders. everybody hassomething worth contributing to our sport both building rods andfly- fishing. so pick the best ideas from both groups and get on withit!! lifes too short!russ, et.al.that's what i learned, though i was embarassed to say so, thinking myrods were (***backwards). finding the spline is hard, but after i dofind it, the guides go ON that strength?? (only a graphite question,sorry). ps, i only use mine for saltwater (a seven wt. threepiece, a nine wt.two piece) VOW: ALWAYS AND HEREAFTER, CANEROD QUESTIONS ONLY. JEAN (bacon@idt.net) from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Oct 29 21:00:32 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Rod Identification again? Hi Reed, The BLANK you have in hand, was it ever built into a rod by Halstead? Thereason I ask is that Martin's explanation was that all the rodmakers pickedup military surplus glues (newly-developed and previously unavailablevarieties to try) in 55 gallon drums for just a couple of bucks. He saidthat all the rodmakers experimented with the stuff. Paul Young, accordingto Keane, had labeled rod sections sitting up on his roof for two years tosee how the glues fared. He said most rodmakers went back to what theyhadbeen using and that Halstead rods delamination rate was about the sameasother makers'. Sounds quite plausible, especially in light of Keane having"about 10 Halstead rods" in stock right now that are fine. Perhaps youhavean experimental blank or the X% that was the normal failure rate or it wasexposed to ??? or Martin tells a good story --- I don't know where thetruthlies, but from what I've learned in the last week and a half on Halsteadrods, I doubt he used inferior glue in the manufacture of the rods that hesold and he watched other accomplished rodmakers glue up their blanks soitwould seem very strange if he had some sort of learning disability only inthe area of gluing a blank. Keane was a friend of Halstead (still friendswith his widow), so I think I'll go with his version. George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Rod Identification again? irish-george wrote: You wished correction:Martin Keane told me that the delamination was a myth...that someoneoncewrote that and the article/book that contained that was used as areference lotofsense too...since Halstead and Gillum quite often worked on rodstogether,and Gillum was never accused of having a "delamination problem" andGillumused Halstead-made ferrules, don't you think Gillum would have helpedhimout if he did have such a problem? Just a thought,George BourkeGeorge,Even if I didn't have hard evidence of the "myth" in hand, i.e., adelaminated Halstead butt, I would still ask Martin for his proof of itsmythical nature. How did he say he had established this as a falsehood?Ever curious,Reed from mpatters@arlington.net Thu Oct 29 21:02:25 1998 Subject: Re: Rod Identification? Rodsofcane@aol.com wrote: I bought a 8'6" 3 peice rod with 2 tips for $190.00 a refinished rod withthename Halstead on it, this is the only i.d. It is a very nice casting rod andhas a red agate stripping guide n.s. real seat the cork needs to be redone,but besides that a nice rod.Any idea who this rod maker is?Hello Kent,I believe that I was the previous owner of the rod that you purchased from the dealer at the Gatlinburg show(he is a friend of mine), I bought it at a flea market a couple of years ago, when I first saw it I could tell it was a fairly good rod, it was all there but suffering from vanish meltdown, it had red wraps tipped black and an agate stripper, I was the one who did the refinish, the wraps were replaced, the "Halstead" signature was left intact. The reel seat was an all nickle silver downlocking with a chromed nut. The threads were soldered or welded into the nickle silver barrel. I am certain that the rod is Heddon made,it has Heddon ferrules, the cane is dark like other early Heddon's I have seen, I have also seen the same reel seat on an early Model 10, it is also mentioned in Mike Sinclair's Heddon book.The taper is same as an 8.5 3/2 2F action. If it did not have the Halstead signature it would look like an unmarked Heddon. The pictures of the two similar rods recently on e-bay looked exactly like it. I was very surprised when they showed up there, I figured the one I had was one of a kind.My theory as to their origins has now changed, I had originally thoughtthat Halstead (or someone else named Halstead) might have refinished it up I think that Halstead might have sold them as Heddon made privatelabeled rods. Did he ever own or run a tackle shop? RegardsMike from lblan@provide.net Thu Oct 29 21:11:16 1998 Subject: RE: When is a Leonard not a Leonard Reed; I agree, I'm in possession of a couple of these... I would not evendream of passing them off as "originals". I've had enough discourse aboutone of them that I have to agree about cutting, ferruling, etc. Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, October 29, 1998 6:43 PM Subject: When is a Leonard not a Leonard All,Gary D. and I had a discussion over dinner at Roscoe regarding theauthenticity of makers wares. For example, I think we agreed that if themaker owned the rights to the Leonard name, his rods could be marketedas Leonards, with the original stamp, etc. (I would appreciate a date,as well.)But what about the case of someone getting a batch of blanks,unferruled, made by a famous maker. Could one assemble them and puttheoriginal "maker's" name on? I say "No", because the final choice ofcutting to length and ferrulling might have been done differently by theoriginal craftsman, hence a different rod. Certainly, one could give dueacknowledgement to the maker of the blank; but not as the rodbuilder.Am I out to lunch?Best regards,Reed from emiller257@dataflo.net Thu Oct 29 21:16:26 1998 wddataflo.dataflo.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA17320 for Subject: Re: Driggs taper Steve Stillabower wrote: Hi All, I have no idea where in the archives to look for the Driggs taper. Anyonehave one laying around handy? I think I'd like to build one here shortly. Regards, Steve Steve and Julie Stillabower, Indianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net from jkallo@midwest.net Thu Oct 29 21:18:28 1998 Subject: Probond Joe , what can you tell us about probond? How long is the working time? What has been your experience and what lead you to using it?Please advise. Ed Miller Hello all. I seem to remember some discussion concerning the use of poly-u glues onstrips--maybe a month ago or so. Anyway, the concensus seemed to beagainstsuch use, so it is with some trepidation that I say I was pretty happy withit. I am the first to point out that I have nothing to compare it to. I do,though, remember someone suggesting that the foaming action of theseglueswould force apart the tip strips. I did not have any trouble of this sort. If there is a downside to the glue (other than the fact that it never comesoff your hands--preventing the execution of the true secrethandshake--sorry) is that any gaps between strips will allow the glue tofoam to the surface. I had one such gap where the grip would be and thedried foam in the gap looks really bad--certainly wouldn't want one ofthose where anyone could see it. Its probably better than an empty space,though. On the good side, the stuff is readily available. Its easy to work with asthere is no mixing. It wiped easily of the blank with mineral spirits. Theresidual glue left after pulling up the floss (which came up easily) sandedaway with no trouble. Best of all the working time was easily a half hourand probably closer to an hour. Even with all my fretting with trying toget the sticks straight I could tell it would still have given after I wasfinished. And Elmers claims its at full strength in 24 hours without anyheat treating. I dunno what counts as a good glue, but that seems prettygood to me. I decided to use it after reading one of Sir D's old posts andthen conversing with him about it a bit. I was planning on using TBII anddecided on Probond after considering the working time. Did I mention that its really hard to get it off your hands, though? Best,Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from channer@hubwest.com Thu Oct 29 21:21:13 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A10B2FC0142; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 20:22:51 MDT Subject: Re: Sir D type dip tube At 02:44 PM 10/29/98 -0800, you wrote:It really isn't difficult to make sure the tube is straight up in the air. Use carpenters levels . I took a board, drilled a hole through it big enough for the tube but not the collar. Attach this to a bench and let the tube hang or let it touch the floor but adjust the axis based on a vertical carpenters level (wish I knew what it is called, glass tube with bubble in it.) You can let the section hang over the tube middle of the tube. Lower it, and remove. Should have no problems. Hope this helps. Jon;just for the sake of picking nits, the word you are looking for is "plumb".It means straight up and down. Level is vertical. Walls are plumb, floorsare level. Yes, very easy to do with a carpenter's level, or a string witha weight on it will do if you don't have a level. Just hang the string fromthe top of the tube with a spacer to keep it a little away from it and whenthe distance from the tube to the string is the same at the top and thebottom, then the tube is plumb. Just have the weight barely off the floorso it will hang freely. Do this in 2 places 90d apart on the tube and itwill be straight to the world. John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Thu Oct 29 21:21:24 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A119C1F010A; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 20:23:05 MDT Subject: Re: Fiberglass vs. Mineral Wool (Rock Wool) At 03:29 PM 10/29/98 EDT, you wrote:Michael,You got my curiosity up, so I contacted one of the vendors who suppliesthe company I work for to find out the difference between fiberglass andmineral wool. What follows is what he sent me. Glass wool fibers are produced by spinning or blowing molten glass,consisting of silicon, aluminum, boron, calcium, sodium, and/or othermetal oxides. For thermal and acoustical applications, the typicaldiameter of the fibers ranging from 3 to 8 micrometers in normaldiameter are used. In Addition, the range of fiber from 1 through 5micrometers in diameter is used if filter media for heating,ventilating, and air conditioning systems. Me again, So Richard if you wanted to try this method of Michael's, you couldpossibly use fiber glass pipe wrap. As Michael said, the mineral woolcan only be used once and is messy.Fiber glass pipe wrap is available in most hardware stores in thestates. I would think that it would be available in your area also. I would suggest that you move your oven outside as the binder in thefiber glass will burn off from the heat and might create an odoroffensive to SWMBO. I may try this later this winter. I would alsosuggest that you use gloves when handling the fiber glass. A Longsleeve shirt would also be helpfull. Regards Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net Dick;I didn't even know that you could still get rockwool, I have only seen itin houses I have remodelled that were built between the early part of thiscentury and the early fifties. BTW, those of you messing around withfiberglass insulation for the first time, be aware, the dust from thisstuff itches like wildfire and the only way I know of to get it off yourskin is by a cold shower, cold closes your pores so the fibers wash off, ahot shower will open the pores in your skin and the itching will go on alot longer. John Channer from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Oct 29 21:25:58 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: When is a Leonard not a Leonard I agree about the blank situation...don't take more credit than is due youand don't forget to credit others' who supplied a substantial part of thework. However, I think I do have a problem with the legal owner of a trademarkpassing off his work (or someone's work in Asia) as that which wasobtainedover a long period of apprenticeship which originally earned a company itsreputation. from a legal standpoint, of course they can do it...they ownthe trademark. from a moral standpoint, I don't see how anyone can do it.I wouldn't even have a problem if the current owners of the Payne andLeonard trademarks took 6 months to build rods with Walt Carpenter andTedSimroe. Any other way feels a lot like buying broken, unrepairable Payneand Leonard rods, cannabalizing their components to put on a blank youmade,and letting the public believe they had purchased a Payne or Leonardbecauseit was stamped as such and looked like "the pictures in the book" (or abamboo rod broker's catalog). George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: When is a Leonard not a Leonard All,Gary D. and I had a discussion over dinner at Roscoe regarding theauthenticity of makers wares. For example, I think we agreed that if themaker owned the rights to the Leonard name, his rods could be marketedas Leonards, with the original stamp, etc. (I would appreciate a date,as well.)But what about the case of someone getting a batch of blanks,unferruled, made by a famous maker. Could one assemble them and put theoriginal "maker's" name on? I say "No", because the final choice ofcutting to length and ferrulling might have been done differently by theoriginal craftsman, hence a different rod. Certainly, one could give dueacknowledgement to the maker of the blank; but not as the rodbuilder.Am I out to lunch?Best regards,Reed from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Oct 29 21:30:58 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: When is a Leonard not a Leonard Some 25 years ago I bought an Orvis bamboo blank and a Phillipson bambooblank --both were unmarked in ANY way (no serial number, nothing). I also boughtacouple of the H.L. Leonard square thread reel seats -- those didn't getstamped with the logo either. George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: When is a Leonard not a Leonard Reed, This is one of those situations that is open to interpretation, but I agreewith the way you see it. I think it would be appropriate to identify theblank maker along with the builder. Rods that are restored or refinishedshould also be noted as such to a buyer. It would even be best to explainwhat part of the rod was restored. Varnish coat only or rewrapped etc.When we start concerning ourselves with what part of a rod is originalweare really trying to decipher a value. We all know that a Leonard in goodcondition that is sold as an original is worth more than a Leonard in goodcondition noted as an original blank finished out by so and so. It haslittle to do with the mechanics of the rod and in fact the guy finishingout the blank may do a better job overall, but given this definitedifference in value I think it's important for the buyer to be aware of theentire picture. Even a rod that will be used for personal use only in thepresent time will someday be sold to someone. That's my opinion. Iwonderif the contemporary rodmakers who sell unfinished blanks to customerssignand number these blanks. My guess is that they don't, but I don't know. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Oct 29 21:35:16 1998 Subject: Re: Drip tube Robert,I use a 6" diam. tube in which I can hang all the strips. I'v beenvarnishing after ferruling but have found that the spar urethane fumes canaffect the glues holding the ferrules so I now ferrule after varnishing theblank. I then wrap the guides (after handle and reel seat are mounted) andapply varnish while the rod turns on a rotisserie, much like one would do a(forgive the word) "plastic" rod.Just my $.02.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Oct 29 21:35:36 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Why Straight? Yep,Same thing.Regards,Hank. from sjstill@iquest.net Thu Oct 29 21:39:19 1998 0000 (209.43.55.158) Subject: Re: Plastic Rods & Splines Hi All, Well, my 0.02. My first home made graphite rod was a 7'-0" 3pcDiamondback was straight from the git-go. Then along comes an 8'-0" 4pc Versifex (?) it! I don't know what the moral is. I paid a whole lot more for theDiamondback than the Versifex blank. Better QC at Diamondback? Whoknows.Sweet little rod though. Did recently try to "spine" a cane rod I redid (to be real honest, I forgotto mark which flat the guides came off of). The rolling method didn't work that didn't deflect as much. 3 posts from me in one day! My fingers are tired now Regards, Steve Steve and Julie Stillabower, Indianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net from stpete@netten.net Thu Oct 29 22:09:01 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA01350 for Subject: [Fwd: Hexrod Driggs River] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------7C77467F606B Steve, Here is the online Hexrod for the Driggs that I ran of Wayne Cattanach /Tony Young posted taper. Their taper was posted on 6" centers. I ranit through Hexrod so that I could convert it to 5" centers. Hope thishelps. When I find the originals, I'll be glad to post them as well. Rick Crenshaw Hope the attachments are readable --------------7C77467F606B cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA12689 for; XAA10898 for Subject: Hexrod Driggs River --jI8keyz6grp/JLjh These are the tables you requested for rod Driggs River --jI8keyz6grp/JLjh Driggs RiverDesign Report-- from Stresses------------------------------------------------------------------------ Basic Rod Design Parameters:Rod Length: 7 ft 2 in (= 86 inches) Action Length: 7 ft 2 in (= 86 inches) Line Weight: 4 Pieces: 2 Line Fished: 45 ft Tip Factor: 1.706 Ferrule Type: Standard Ferrule #1: Size 13/64; Wt 0.271 oz.; Rod Dim 13.21/64 @ 43 in ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inches Dimension Stress1 0.070 414815 0.090 9994610 0.106 12720315 0.126 11877320 0.142 11638025 0.152 12541630 0.160 13689035 0.185 10987440 0.200 10611045 0.210 11243650 0.218 12392955 0.228 13090760 0.245 12555765 0.258 12648270 0.263 13916675 0.270 14868380 0.270 17061985 0.270 19444186 0.270 199432------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ --jI8keyz6grp/JLjh Driggs RiverDetailed Design Numbers-- from Stresses------------------------------------------------------------------------ Basic Rod Design Parameters:Rod Length: 7 ft 2 in (= 86 inches) Action Length: 7 ft 2 in (= 86 inches) Line Weight: 4 Pieces: 2 Line Fished: 45 ft Tip Factor: 1.706 Ferrule Type: Standard Ferrule #1: Size 13/64; Wt 0.271 oz.; Rod Dim 13.21/64 @ 43 in ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Stress Components at One Inch IntervalsPt Tip Line V&G Ferrule Bamboo Total Dimension F(b)1 1.71 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.01 1.71 0.070 414812 3.41 0.01 0.01 0.00 0.02 3.44 0.075 676983 5.12 0.01 0.03 0.00 0.05 5.20 0.080 842204 6.82 0.02 0.05 0.00 0.09 6.99 0.085 942525 8.53 0.04 0.08 0.00 0.15 8.80 0.090 999466 10.24 0.05 0.11 0.00 0.23 10.63 0.093 1087917 11.94 0.07 0.15 0.00 0.34 12.50 0.097 1155708 13.65 0.10 0.20 0.00 0.46 14.40 0.100 1206919 15.35 0.12 0.25 0.00 0.60 16.33 0.103 12448210 17.06 0.15 0.31 0.00 0.77 18.29 0.106 12720311 18.76 0.18 0.38 0.00 0.97 20.29 0.110 12626712 20.47 0.22 0.45 0.00 1.19 22.33 0.114 12482513 22.18 0.26 0.53 0.00 1.45 24.41 0.118 12302414 23.88 0.30 0.61 0.00 1.73 26.53 0.122 12097915 25.59 0.34 0.70 0.00 2.06 28.69 0.126 11877316 27.29 0.39 0.80 0.00 2.41 30.90 0.129 11864717 29.00 0.44 0.91 0.00 2.81 33.15 0.133 11830618 30.71 0.49 1.02 0.00 3.25 35.46 0.136 11779119 32.41 0.55 1.13 0.00 3.73 37.82 0.139 11714020 34.12 0.61 1.26 0.00 4.26 40.23 0.142 11638021 35.82 0.67 1.38 0.00 4.83 42.70 0.144 11845122 37.53 0.73 1.52 0.00 5.45 45.23 0.146 12037823 39.23 0.80 1.66 0.00 6.12 47.82 0.148 12217424 40.94 0.87 1.81 0.00 6.84 50.46 0.150 12385025 42.65 0.95 1.96 0.00 7.62 53.17 0.152 12541626 44.35 1.02 2.12 0.00 8.44 55.94 0.154 12787527 46.06 1.10 2.29 0.00 9.33 58.78 0.156 13024728 47.76 1.19 2.46 0.00 10.27 61.68 0.157 13253829 49.47 1.27 2.64 0.00 11.26 64.65 0.159 13475030 51.18 1.36 2.83 0.00 12.32 67.68 0.160 13689031 52.88 1.45 3.02 0.00 13.43 70.79 0.165 13054732 54.59 1.55 3.22 0.00 14.61 73.96 0.170 12472233 56.29 1.65 3.42 0.00 15.85 77.21 0.175 11936534 58.00 1.75 3.63 0.00 17.16 80.55 0.180 11442935 59.71 1.85 3.85 0.00 18.55 83.96 0.185 10987436 61.41 1.96 4.07 0.00 20.02 87.47 0.188 10907337 63.12 2.07 4.30 0.00 21.58 91.07 0.191 10829638 64.82 2.18 4.54 0.00 23.21 94.76 0.194 10754239 66.53 2.30 4.78 0.00 24.94 98.55 0.197 10681440 68.23 2.42 5.03 0.00 26.75 102.44 0.200 10611041 69.94 2.54 5.29 0.00 28.66 106.43 0.202 10700542 71.65 2.67 5.55 0.00 30.66 110.52 0.204 10789043 73.35 2.80 5.81 0.00 32.76 114.73 0.206 10876444 75.06 2.93 6.09 1.08 34.96 120.12 0.208 11063345 76.76 3.06 6.37 2.17 37.26 125.62 0.210 11243646 78.47 3.20 6.65 3.25 39.66 131.24 0.212 11482547 80.18 3.34 6.95 4.34 42.17 136.97 0.214 11716848 81.88 3.49 7.25 5.42 44.78 142.81 0.215 11946549 83.59 3.63 7.55 6.50 47.50 148.77 0.217 12171850 85.29 3.78 7.86 7.59 50.33 154.85 0.218 12392951 87.00 3.93 8.18 8.67 53.27 161.05 0.220 12541352 88.71 4.09 8.50 9.76 56.32 167.37 0.222 12685153 90.41 4.25 8.83 10.84 59.48 173.82 0.224 12824454 92.12 4.41 9.17 11.92 62.76 180.39 0.226 12959555 93.82 4.58 9.51 13.01 66.16 187.09 0.228 13090756 95.53 4.74 9.86 14.09 69.69 193.91 0.232 12979757 97.23 4.92 10.22 15.18 73.33 200.88 0.235 12870558 98.94 5.09 10.58 16.26 77.11 207.97 0.239 12763459 100.65 5.27 10.95 17.34 81.01 215.22 0.242 12658460 102.35 5.45 11.32 18.43 85.05 222.60 0.245 12555761 104.06 5.63 11.70 19.51 89.23 230.13 0.248 12576562 105.76 5.82 12.09 20.60 93.56 237.82 0.251 12596063 107.47 6.00 12.48 21.68 98.02 245.66 0.253 12614364 109.18 6.20 12.88 22.76 102.64 253.66 0.256 12631765 110.88 6.39 13.29 23.85 107.41 261.82 0.258 12648266 112.59 6.59 13.70 24.93 112.33 270.14 0.259 12900267 114.29 6.79 14.12 26.02 117.41 278.63 0.260 13153068 116.00 7.00 14.54 27.10 122.65 287.29 0.261 13406769 117.70 7.20 14.97 28.18 128.05 296.11 0.262 13661370 119.41 7.41 15.41 29.27 133.60 305.10 0.263 13916671 121.12 7.63 15.86 30.35 139.32 314.27 0.265 14108472 122.82 7.84 16.31 31.44 145.19 323.60 0.266 14299473 124.53 8.06 16.76 32.52 151.24 333.11 0.268 14489874 126.23 8.28 17.22 33.60 157.44 342.79 0.269 14679475 127.94 8.51 17.69 34.69 163.82 352.65 0.270 14868376 129.65 8.74 18.17 35.77 170.36 362.69 0.270 15291977 131.35 8.97 18.65 36.86 177.08 372.90 0.270 15723178 133.06 9.20 19.14 37.94 183.96 383.30 0.270 16161879 134.76 9.44 19.63 39.02 191.01 393.87 0.270 16608080 136.47 9.68 20.13 40.11 198.24 404.63 0.270 17061981 138.18 9.93 20.64 41.19 205.63 415.56 0.270 17523282 139.88 10.17 21.15 42.28 213.19 426.67 0.270 17992183 141.59 10.42 21.67 43.36 220.92 437.96 0.270 18468684 143.29 10.67 22.20 44.44 228.82 449.42 0.270 18952685 145.00 10.93 22.73 45.53 236.89 461.07 0.270 19444186 146.70 11.19 23.26 46.61 245.12 472.89 0.270 199432------------------------------------------------------------------------ --jI8keyz6grp/JLjh Driggs RiverPlaning Form Setting Report-- from Stresses------------------------------------------------------------------------ Basic Rod Design Parameters:Rod Length: 7 ft 2 in (= 86 inches) Action Length: 7 ft 2 in (= 86 inches) Line Weight: 4 Pieces: 2 Line Fished: 45 ft Tip Factor: 1.706 Ferrule Type: Standard Ferrule #1: Size 13/64; Wt 0.271 oz.; Rod Dim 13.21/64 @ 43 in Planing Form Adjustment 0.0010 --------------------------- --------------------------------------------- Station Rod Dimension Station Setting0 0.070 0.03605 0.090 0.046010 0.106 0.054015 0.126 0.064020 0.142 0.072025 0.152 0.077030 0.160 0.081035 0.185 0.093540 0.200 0.101045 0.210 0.106050 0.218 0.110055 0.228 0.115060 0.245 0.123565 0.258 0.130070 0.263 0.132575 0.270 0.136080 0.270 0.136085 0.270 0.136090 0.271 0.1365------------------------------------------------------------------------ --jI8keyz6grp/JLjh-- --------------7C77467F606B-- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Oct 29 23:11:49 1998 Fri, 30 Oct 1998 13:11:08 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Driggs taper On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Steve Stillabower wrote: Hi All, I have no idea where in the archives to look for the Driggs taper. Anyonehave one laying around handy? I think I'd like to build one here shortly. Regards, SteveI wont be home for a few days to get the posting I've a few times now re. the Driggs taper but if some-one dosn't come up with it I'll post it. I've been sort of hoping Jerry would place this taper on his home page so I've resisted putting it on mine as Paul H and I share the same surname and I don't want any possibility of a conection being made between he and I, not that I'd mind but the "other" Youngs may not be too stoked about it. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from saweiss@flash.net Thu Oct 29 23:25:06 1998 Subject: Re: Why Straight? When we make a rod we make them as straight as we can(at least I do) . Is this neccessary? Other than for appearancesake, why do rods have to be straight? Darryl Darryl,Do you think that some crookedness, such as twists may cause the rod tocastto one side?Steve from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Thu Oct 29 23:29:38 1998 23:29:04 ix16.ix.netcom.comvia smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: When is a Leonard not a Leonard I would have to agree with you. In addition there is the question of theirhistory. Were they manufactured as part of the companies basic line orwere they manufactured as blanks to be resold. The answer has atremendousimpact on quality. A product sold as a representative of the company"Brand" is expected to carry the companies highest quality; afterall thatis a cornerstone of the buisness. Resale merchandise does not have to besubjected to the same requirements as the "Branded" merchandise. Considerthe "store brand" merchandise. Is the Kroger, Safeway, WallMart etc.brands the same quality as those of the companies,(Del Monte, Libby, etc.)that really made them. In some cases, yes; in others, no. The company Heathkit made electronic kits. They were very sucessful atwhat they did because they made a superior product. Over the course oftime, they were bought and sold several times. The quality of the Heathkitreflected the owner and not all Heathkits were equal. Even in the case ofownership of brand name and all logos, there will be a difference inmanufacturing and/or sales practices which will reflect on the quality ofthe product. Partly built by Leonard should never equate to "Built byLeonard". IMHO. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 06:43 PM 10/29/98 -0500, you wrote:All,Gary D. and I had a discussion over dinner at Roscoe regarding theauthenticity of makers wares. For example, I think we agreed that if themaker owned the rights to the Leonard name, his rods could be marketedas Leonards, with the original stamp, etc. (I would appreciate a date,as well.)But what about the case of someone getting a batch of blanks,unferruled, made by a famous maker. Could one assemble them and put theoriginal "maker's" name on? I say "No", because the final choice ofcutting to length and ferrulling might have been done differently by theoriginal craftsman, hence a different rod. Certainly, one could give dueacknowledgement to the maker of the blank; but not as the rodbuilder.Am I out to lunch?Best regards,Reed from Canerods@aol.com Thu Oct 29 23:35:23 1998 Subject: Re: Rod Identification? In a message dated 10/29/98 7:04:03 PM Pacific Standard Time,mpatters@arlington.net writes: Mike, Could be possible, Heddon made the Paul Young "Dry Fly" rods. (perSinclair) Don Burns from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Oct 29 23:42:56 1998 Subject: Re: Plastic Rods & Splines In a message dated 10/29/98 5:57:54 PM Pacific Standard Time,bacon@idt.netwrites: when ifinally do complete my first canerod, does that mean, icanneverturnback? Not neccessarily your first cane rod, but if you stay with cane longenough you will run accross a bamboo rod that will meld to yoursoul and become an extension of your arm. It will place a flyexactly where you want it and the fly will land as if it was thistle down on a summer breeze. When you catch the first fish on thisrod you will feel every quiver of it's fins. You will be able to reactto each move of the fish as if you knew what it was going to do beforeit did. 7X and 8X tippet will feel as strong as 4X or 3X. This rod is not the same for everyone, and some people don'tever find their rod, but if you do find it then you canneverturnback. Darryl from saweiss@flash.net Thu Oct 29 23:44:24 1998 Subject: Re: Driggs taper Hi All, I have no idea where in the archives to look for the Driggs taper. Anyonehave one laying around handy? I think I'd like to build one here shortly. Steve,Here's the taper from WC that is in the archives.0" - 203"6" - 190"12" - 160"18" - 150"24" - 138"30" - 115"36" - 095"42" - 070"0" - 265"6" - 265"12" - 265"18" - 260"24" - 245"30" - 225"36" - 215"42" - 205"I plan to do one also.Steve Weiss from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Oct 29 23:55:58 1998 Subject: Re: Why Straight? In a message dated 10/29/98 9:26:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,saweiss@flash.net writes: Do you think that some crookedness, such as twists may cause the rod tocastto one side? No I don't. When you hold the end of a line and pull on it with the rod, the rod straightens out. Doesn't this same thing happen during a casting stroke? Darryl from chris@artistree.com Fri Oct 30 01:22:13 1998 Subject: Re: Fiberglass vs. Mineral Wool (Rock Wool) John, Thanks for this advice...always had a problem with this. Really, I'm notkidding..Thanks:) Best Regards,Chris Wohlford BTW, those of you messing around with fiberglass insulation for thefirst time, be aware, the dust from this stuff itches like wildfire andthe only way I know of to get it off your skin is by a cold shower, coldcloses your pores so the fibers wash off, a hot shower will open thepores in your skin and the itching will go on lot longer. John Channer from walkermoody@email.msn.com Fri Oct 30 01:35:27 1998 (may beforged)) SMTPSVC;Thu, 29 Oct 1998 23:35:00 -0800 Subject: Re: THE handshake Actually old chap I still say 'God Save the Queen'.The Queen Mother said'Damn,there goes my reputation'.-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: THE handshake In a message dated 10/29/98 3:22:07 PM Pacific Standard Time,MICK@welfen-netz.com writes: Are you sure about the part 'God save the queen'? :)Mick Okay, "God Bless America". I was trying to stay withtradition.Darryl from gwr@seanet.com Fri Oct 30 03:08:03 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA10054 for; Fri, Subject: Re: Plastic Rods & Splines boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0079_01BE03A1.F64222E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0079_01BE03A1.F64222E0 boundary="----=_NextPart_001_007A_01BE03A1.F64222E0" ------=_NextPart_001_007A_01BE03A1.F64222E0 russ,was that lady bashing?, by you, or by the VP? does using the term"girls", mean that they are dumber, please explain...i always havetrouble finding the spline, but have now become more adept sincebuilding a coupla "plastic" rods. (such an ugly =word..PLASTIC)..when ifinally do complete my first canerod, does that mean, icanneverturnback?jean (bacon@idt.net) You should know me better Jean. That was not "lady bashing" on =my part. Nor was I bashing "plastic" rods. I'm where I am with cane in =large part because of all the plastic rods I've made. Whenever I talk =about plastic rods, the joke is on me as much as anyone else - for the =last three years the bulk of my income has obtained from the =construction of graphite & fiberglass rods. I'm sorry that that last =post came across as sexist on my part - I was jabbing at the VP and his =attitude. My wife wouldn't have married a sexist pig.Jerry - You also took my letter wrong. I'm on the side of the =fiberglass/graphite guys who know a bit about rod making (building, =assembling, whatever) - Dale Clemens & L.A. Garcia taught me a lot. I =don't want to get into a war over this, so this will be my final post on =the subject. It is worth noting, that once you've assembled a couple =hundred synthetic rods, you'll find that merely placing the guides =opposite the curve so as to straighten the rod blank does not ensure =that you've placed the guides on (or opposite to) the spine. The =executive in question went to some length to fill me in on the firm's =building cum marketing strategy: straight rods sell, 90% of the public =is not educated enough to spine a rod while shopping thus there is no =sense in placing guides on the spine - also the "opposite the curve" =guide placement saves time in building too as the female employees =a.k.a., the VP's "girls," can simply sight down the blank and use a very =rapid visual test to determine guide placement rather than spending a =few more moments per rod to spine it, worry about which is the stronger =of the two "jumps" et cetera & so forth. No doubt, this is great =marketing and wise (economical) use of the factory's labor. It is also =actively deceptive, playing on the ignorance of the consumer rather than =trying to educate him/her and then building a product for the educated =consumer.That said, I hope neither of you two take this post as a flame. I =wish you a good night and apologize for stirring up a rat's nest = Russ ------=_NextPart_001_007A_01BE03A1.F64222E0 term"girls", mean that they are dumber, please = always havetrouble finding the spline, but have now become more = word..PLASTIC)..when ifinally do complete my first canerod, does = mean, icanneverturnback?jean (bacon@idt.net) am with cane in large part because of all the plastic rods I've = Whenever I talk about plastic rods, the joke is on me as much as = - for the last three years the bulk of my income has obtained from = last post came across as sexist on my part - I was jabbing at the VP = pig. assembled a couple hundred synthetic rods, you'll find that merely = the guides opposite the curve so as to straighten the rod blank does = ensure that you've placed the guides on (or opposite to) the = The executive in question went to some length to fill me in on the = building cum marketing strategy: straight rods sell, 90% of = public is not educated enough to spine= while shopping thus there is no sense in placing guides on the spine = the "opposite the curve" guide placement saves time in = too as the female employees a.k.a., the VP's "girls," can = sight down the blank and use a very rapid visual test to determine = placement rather than spending a few more moments per rod to spine = about which is the stronger of the two "jumps" et cetera = ignorance of the consumer rather than trying to educate him/her and = building a product for the educated consumer.That said, I hope neither of you = Russ ------=_NextPart_001_007A_01BE03A1.F64222E0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0079_01BE03A1.F64222E0 name="Golden Witch.vcf" filename="Golden Witch.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDN:Gooding;John;R.FN:Golden WitchORG:Golden WitchTITLE:Rod Maker &c.TEL;WORK;VOICE:(425) 787- 6599TEL;PAGER;VOICE:noneTEL;WORK;FAX:noneADR;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A;Lynnwood;WA;98037;USALABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A=3D0D=3D0ALynnwood, WA =98037=3D0D=3D0AUSAURL:noneURL:http://www.goldenwitch.comEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:gwr@seanet.comEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_0079_01BE03A1.F64222E0-- from sniderja@email.uc.edu Fri Oct 30 06:42:01 1998 Subject: Re: THE handshake Absolutely correct, Sir Darryl. I must have confused the bait fisherman'shandshake. Sorry for the confusion. My humble apologies to the entiregroup!You all owe me 20 lashes on my rump with a 9' 1wt SOFT bamboo rod! At 05:47 PM 10/29/98 EST, you wrote:In a message dated 10/29/98 5:16:07 AM Pacific Standard Time,sniderja@email.uc.edu writes: I thought ALL of you folks knew the bamboo rod fly fishers handshake-- justtook it for granted. You grasp you partner's hand, give it a littletremble, then JERK! No, no, no! You grasp your partner's hand, give it a little tremble, then say"God save the Queen" and lift smoothly.... Darryl Jerry Snidere-mail: Sniderja@email.uc.eduhttp://www.biology.uc.edu/snider/jerry.htm from sniderja@email.uc.edu Fri Oct 30 06:48:26 1998 Subject: Re: THE handshake/Please no more SORRY!If I insult you folks in this manner agin, simply delete me from the list.No hard feelings about it.J. Snider. At 07:49 PM 10/29/98 EST, you wrote:Guys,Lets not let this one get out of hand like some of these kind of posts havebefore. Do us all a favor and please keep the list to pertinent posts.On the band wagon again. No need for any comments to this post. Thanks!Bret from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Fri Oct 30 07:04:05 1998 IAA20355 Subject: RE: When is a Leonard not a Leonard What about Payne's that were made by Walt Carpenter?Al Hanzich732-878- 6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, October 29, 1998 6:43 PM Subject: When is a Leonard not a Leonard All,Gary D. and I had a discussion over dinner at Roscoeregarding theauthenticity of makers wares. For example, I think we agreedthat if themaker owned the rights to the Leonard name, his rods couldbe marketedas Leonards, with the original stamp, etc. (I wouldappreciate a date,as well.)But what about the case of someone getting a batchof blanks,unferruled, made by a famous maker. Could one assemble themand put theoriginal "maker's" name on? I say "No", because the finalchoice ofcutting to length and ferrulling might have been donedifferently by theoriginal craftsman, hence a different rod. Certainly, onecould give dueacknowledgement to the maker of the blank; but not as therodbuilder.Am I out to lunch?Best regards,Reed from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Oct 30 07:04:53 1998 Subject: Re: Why Straight? At 00:55 30/10/98 EST, you wrote:In a message dated 10/29/98 9:26:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,saweiss@flash.net writes: Do you think that some crookedness, such as twists may cause the rodtocastto one side? No I don't. When you hold the end of a line and pull on it with the rod, the rod straightens out. Doesn't this same thing happen during a casting stroke? Darryl Guys, To add to the exchange - If the rod is just bent and doesn't have more orless fiber on one side than another, the straightness of the rod doesn'tmatter a whole lot. But if the rod is missing power fibers along one side,the rod will tend to twist to that side. That's the reason that some canerods don't really cast where you point 'em. Get your mic out and the reasonwill be obvious. One O**** was measured was about 0.025" less on onesidethan one the other flats. The rod twisted towards the "weak" side everytime. The undersize strips have move effect in the bottom 1/3 than nearthetip. If the strip was undersize by 0.025" in the tip, I would expect thatmost if not all manufacturers would have discarded the strip. regards, Don from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Oct 30 07:04:56 1998 Subject: Re: When is a Leonard not a Leonard At 18:43 29/10/98 -0500, you wrote:All,Gary D. and I had a discussion over dinner at Roscoe regardingthe>authenticity of makers wares. For example, I think we agreed that ifthemaker owned the rights to the Leonard name, his rods could be marketedas Leonards, with the original stamp, etc. (I would appreciate a date,as well.)But what about the case of someone getting a batch of blanks,unferruled, made by a famous maker. Could one assemble them and put theoriginal "maker's" name on? I say "No", because the final choice ofcutting to length and ferrulling might have been done differently by theoriginal craftsman, hence a different rod. Certainly, one could give dueacknowledgement to the maker of the blank; but not as the rodbuilder.Am I out to lunch?Best regards,Reed Reed, If you got a bunch of Ford parts and made yourself a car - It would stillbe a Ford. However, the assembly of those parts may have been done betteror worse than the Ford assembly plant. Still, the assembler should be and runs like one - Yup - its a Ford. Don from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Fri Oct 30 07:21:48 1998 IAA21477 Subject: RE: When is a Leonard not a Leonard Might say "ASSEMBLED BY JOHN STUDEBAKER from FORD PARTS"!Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, October 30, 1998 1:43 AM Subject: Re: When is a Leonard not a Leonard At 18:43 29/10/98 -0500, you wrote:All,Gary D. and I had a discussion over dinner at Roscoeregarding theauthenticity of makers wares. For example, I think weagreed that if themaker owned the rights to the Leonard name, his rods couldbe marketedas Leonards, with the original stamp, etc. (I wouldappreciate a date,as well.)But what about the case of someone getting a batchof blanks,unferruled, made by a famous maker. Could one assemble themand put theoriginal "maker's" name on? I say "No", because the finalchoice ofcutting to length and ferrulling might have been donedifferently by theoriginal craftsman, hence a different rod. Certainly, onecould give dueacknowledgement to the maker of the blank; but not as therodbuilder.Am I out to lunch?Best regards,Reed Reed, If you got a bunch of Ford parts and made yourself a car -It would stillbe a Ford. However, the assembly of those parts may havebeen done betteror worse than the Ford assembly plant. Still, the assemblershould be smells like oneand runs like one - Yup - its a Ford. Don from Canerods@aol.com Fri Oct 30 08:13:40 1998 Subject: Re: Plastic Rods & Splines All, There was a long thread on the FF@ list-serv sometime ago (last year?)aboutseveral mfg's building their rods in the straightest section alignment vs.looking for the spine/spline. Seems they are more concerned with a buyer"eye-balling" the rod in a store than anything else. Good thing they don't have six corners to worry about! Don B. from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Fri Oct 30 09:29:10 1998 09:31:07-0600 R8.20.00.25) Subject: Re[2]: Fiberglass vs. Mineral Wool (Rock Wool) Duct tape or other sticky tape is also helpful. Stick it on and peel it off and it sticks to the glass fibers and pulls them out. This works on cactus spines too.Jon McAnulty ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Fiberglass vs. Mineral Wool (Rock Wool) Author: at Internet-Mail John, Thanks for this advice...always had a problem with this. Really, I'm notkiddingThanks:) Best Regards,Chris Wohlford BTW, those of you messing around with fiberglass insulation for the first time, be aware, the dust from this stuff itches like wildfire and the only way I know of to get it off your skin is by a cold shower, cold closes your pores so the fibers wash off, a hot shower will open the pores in your skin and the itching will go on lot longer. John Channer from tfinger@services.state.mo.us Fri Oct 30 09:43:17 1998 Subject: Re: When is a Leonard not a Leonard Onis Cogburn wrote: I would have to agree with you. In addition there is the question of theirhistory. Were they manufactured as part of the companies basic line orwere they manufactured as blanks to be resold. The answer has atremendousimpact on quality. A product sold as a representative of the company"Brand" is expected to carry the companies highest quality; afterall thatis a cornerstone of the buisness. Resale merchandise does not have to besubjected to the same requirements as the "Branded" merchandise. Considerthe "store brand" merchandise. Is the Kroger, Safeway, WallMart etc.brands the same quality as those of the companies,(Del Monte, Libby,etc.)that really made them. In some cases, yes; in others, no. The company Heathkit made electronic kits. They were very sucessful atwhat they did because they made a superior product. Over the course oftime, they were bought and sold several times. The quality of theHeathkitreflected the owner and not all Heathkits were equal. Even in the case ofownership of brand name and all logos, there will be a difference inmanufacturing and/or sales practices which will reflect on the qualityofthe product. Partly built by Leonard should never equate to "Built byLeonard". IMHO. I fully agree that no one should assemble components and pass the resulting rods off as originals, but there is an intererting wrinkle to this thread: weren't the Leonard Duracanes assembled by Leonard from Sharpes' blanks? I have always found it amusing that those impregnated rods generally sell for about twice the value of Wes Jordan-era Orvis Battenkill or Madison rods which, IMHO, are generally much better fishing rods. Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us from Anachemrpo@aol.com Fri Oct 30 10:00:18 1998 Subject: Leonard not Leonard I have a Leonard that is not a Leonard. I refer to it as "built from a Leonard blank", which I purchased from LenCodella a few years ago. I was also able to acquire a butt cap with the original Leonard logostampedinto it from REC (when it was still in Vermont, owned by Bill Alley, whohadthe rights to the name at that time). I used components that matched thespecsof original Leonard rods (as described by Mr. Codella), such as a butternutspacer, Chinese red wraps and cigar grip... But it still is described to those who ask, as "built on a Leonard blank",'cause that's what it is. I wouldn't dream of calling it anything else. Russ L. from fritzwiese@webtv.net Fri Oct 30 10:27:13 1998 mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP idIAA15177; 111.iap.bryant.webtv.net(8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id IAA06157; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 08:27:11 -0800 ETAuAhUAhcifA1nerj1E7c/FFD5hzJQlXvQCFQCcVraUfVeJjVqwfynEUq4p+hX2xw== Subject: Thread tensioners Recall someone asking about where to get tensioners. Am just gettingthings together to build T. Smithwick binder and picked up several atJanns- Netcraft, Toledo.Regular - #290-600 $4.59Deluxe - #290-601 $5.79 Has plastic knob indexed 1 thru 1 adjustment.(wow) 1-800-638-2723 Usual waiver of non-interest. Fritz Wiese from maxs@geocities.co.jp Fri Oct 30 10:33:12 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id BAA08469for; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 01:33:07 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Dip tube trials Robert Milardo wrote: Max, I've run oh a dozen or more trials with the Sir D Dip, and ran intomost of the problems you and others have mentioned. To avoid "kissing"where the blank snugs up against the side of the tube, I constructed aframe that holds the tube perfectly vertical, then I carved a plug to fitin the top of the tube. The plug spands the top of the tube like a spokein a wheel, but does not cover it. In the center is a hole in which fits adowel. The other end of the dowel is inserted in the female end of theferrule mounted on the section being dipped. This holds the sectionrigidly centered in the tube. For the female section, the ferrule end isinserted direcly into the plug. Same effect. There are other solutionsincluding using copper pipe (pvc is cheap), or a bigger dia tube (silly,requires too much varnish), or attaching "stars" at the end of the sectionbeing dipped to prevent "kissing" (works well too, but I found the abovemethod easier). I'll first try this by using paper clip. The other problem is mastering the drain rate. This turned out to be veryinteresting. First, different brands of varnish vary enormously in theirviscosity, and this really surprised me. Some sure, but I found hugedifferences as they effected drain rates. More interesting, was the discovery that temp. also had a surprisinglybigeffect. A perfect drain rate at 80deg. was entirely too slow when thesamevarnish was at 65, or example. So now I dip with everything at 80 deg,varnish, tube, rod, and room. Without controling temp you won't be abletocontrol the drain rate quite as easily. Finally, the other feature I found regardless of the temp. I was workingat, is that the drain rates vary widely depending on how much varnish isinthe tube, which makes sense when you think about it. Varnish is heavy.Basically the first 25" of the tube might drain at 4"/min, while the last25" at 1"/min. This variation was a huge surprise to me. So, I triedvarious methods to slow the drain rate on the upper section. You can andit's a big pain in the butt, becasue it's messy and guess what--It'sdoesn't seem to matter at all. With a 4"/min drain on the upper section,and 1" on the lower I got perfect results- -a nice blem free light coat ofvarnish, and a much unexpected set of lessons in a whole mess of stuff. How about using a visible (inside) tube and have another drain hole inthe middle? The varnish weight will be separated into two at the centerhole. First drain the upper hole. When the varnish surface passed thefirst hole then drain the bottom hole. The more holes, the smoother itdrains. But we have to keep watching it all the way.Or, though this is still consideration level, such a mechanism as theweight of drained varnish itself will try to open the drain cock wideraccordingly. We can see this kind of mechanism in the water tank ofwash room. The float goes up with water surface, water cock is going toclose gradually. Try to think about the opposit function. When thedrained bucket get heavier, it will open the drain cock wideraccordingly. Also I'm now filtering the varnish as it is poured into the tube. And, Ibuilt the fame holding the tube with space under it to hold a plasticbucket. Cleaning up a half qt of spilled varnish on carpeting is not fun,but curiosly now that it's dryed you can hardly tell, just a littlestiffness. Hope that helps, Bob. I attach a so called varnish receiver, wider diameter than tube. I willadd a filter on the top of the receiver. PS: The appropriate size of the hole? Try some and quickly you'll findoneto suit your varnish and situation. I gattya. Thank you for experienced info. Max-- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Fri Oct 30 10:33:14 1998 Subject: Re: Plastic Rods & Splines On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Steve Stillabower wrote: Hi All, Well, my 0.02. My first home made graphite rod was a 7'-0" 3pcDiamondback was straight from the git-go. Then along comes an 8'-0" 4pc Versifex(?) it! I don't know what the moral is. I paid a whole lot more for theDiamondback than the Versifex blank. Better QC at Diamondback? Whoknows.Sweet little rod though. Hi Steve, Moral is you got a bad PacBay blank, maybe a second. I sell the blanksand also Versitex rods built up from PacBay blanks and your dogleg wastheexception rather than the rule. Haven't had one rod or blank (PacBay)back in 3 years. Did have only one St.Croix return FWIW. Regards, Bobflysupplies@yahoo.com Did recently try to "spine" a cane rod I redid (to be real honest, I forgotto mark which flat the guides came off of). The rolling method didn'twork that didn't deflect as much. 3 posts from me in one day! My fingers are tired now Regards, Steve Steve and Julie Stillabower, Indianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net from maxs@geocities.co.jp Fri Oct 30 10:37:25 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id BAA13453for; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 01:37:21 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Growing your own cane Terry, Actually there is one which is made by different type of bamboo inmuseum of Montana.It is needed to know the strength of that different bamboo againststretching, pulling and bending force when I use it for a rod. If it isknown, hopefully I can convert it to a taper, I guess. Of-courceWaynes Hexrod will not work for the bamboo since it is based on thestrength of Tonkin Cane. It may be sure that a different (I meanJapanese) bamboo is lessstronger than Tonkin, but the difference may not be so large as double.Weight may be a problem to think about as you mention. Anyway, this isstill a hope level. Let me try this in a long range. When I do it,I'll post this again.Thanks, Max Terry L. Kirkpatrick wrote: I would try this for fly rod after searching its strength. If I taperit rather thicker than Tonkin, it might be used for fly rod, even if thepower fiber is thinner than Tonkin. I wonder how different types of Bamboo would be in rods? Differenttapers, intheory, should make up for the difference in type. But I believe theweightwould be excessive. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from maxs@geocities.co.jp Fri Oct 30 10:37:42 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id BAA13797for; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 01:37:38 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Sir D type dip tube FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: Max,Try attaching a bent paper clip to the rod section so both ends of theclipkeep the section from touching the wall. I the section is hanging free youmight have to use 2 clips.Regards,Hank. Hank, This seems match to my method. I want to take this. Why couldn't Ithink about this since my snakes are all made from CLIPS? Thank you,Max -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from maxs@geocities.co.jp Fri Oct 30 10:37:55 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id BAA14084for; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 01:37:51 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Sir D type dip tube Chris Wohlford wrote: Max,A recent post had the good suggestion of doing the following. Attach anadapter (for lack of a better word) to the the top of PVC. This adaptershould have a large I.D., say 1.5" or 2" and gradually taper down to the1" PVC. Since the varnish really only goes on the rod at the very top ofdip tube this gives you a greater surface area and less of a problem ofrod touching inner walls of tube. I have seen these PVC adapters and areused to connect two differnt size pipes together in plumbing supplystores. | | 1.5" to 2" width| || || || || || || || | 1" PVC| || || | Best Regards,Chris Wohlford Chris, I am thinking this using the top portion of a pet bottle to make it easyto pour varnish in.Max-- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from maxs@geocities.co.jp Fri Oct 30 10:38:07 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id BAA14349for; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 01:38:04 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Sir D type dip tube Jon Lintvet wrote: It really isn't difficult to make sure the tube is straight up in the air.Use carpenters levels . I took a board, drilled a hole through it bigenough for the tube but not the collar. Attach this to a bench andlet the tube hang or let it touch the floor but adjust the axis basedon a vertical carpenters level (wish I knew what it is called, glasstube with bubble in it.) You can let the section hang over the tube middle of the tube. Lower it, and remove. Should have noproblems. Hope this helps. Jon,I did this by hanging a thread with a nail at the end.Thanks, Max -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from maxs@geocities.co.jp Fri Oct 30 10:38:35 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id BAA14926for; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 01:38:31 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Sir D type dip tube FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: Chris,If Max is using a drip dip tube the adapter won't work as he's notpullingthe stick out but draining the varnish out of the bottom of the tube.Hank. Hank,I attached the adapter to make it easy to pour fluid in the tube. Thanks,Max-- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from maxs@geocities.co.jp Fri Oct 30 10:39:17 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id BAA15708for; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 01:39:12 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Sir D type dip tube john channer wrote: At 02:44 PM 10/29/98 -0800, you wrote:It really isn't difficult to make sure the tube is straight up in the air.Use carpenters levels . I took a board, drilled a hole through it bigenough for the tube but not the collar. Attach this to a bench andlet the tube hang or let it touch the floor but adjust the axis basedon a vertical carpenters level (wish I knew what it is called, glasstube with bubble in it.) You can let the section hang over the tube middle of the tube. Lower it, and remove. Should have noproblems. Hope this helps. Jon;just for the sake of picking nits, the word you are looking for is "plumb".It means straight up and down. Level is vertical. Walls are plumb, floorsare level. Yes, very easy to do with a carpenter's level, or a string witha weight on it will do if you don't have a level. Just hang the string fromthe top of the tube with a spacer to keep it a little away from it andwhenthe distance from the tube to the string is the same at the top and thebottom, then the tube is plumb. Just have the weight barely off the floorso it will hang freely. Do this in 2 places 90d apart on the tube and itwill be straight to the world. John Channer Hi all, While I was away on business trip for two days, thanks for various kindof advices. They all help me very much and it is good to archive allthe kind of concerns on this subject. these tubes for drying purpose too by taking off the cap attached at thebottom of the tube and send heated air into the tube from the bottom. It is sure that the tubes stand straight up vertically to the world butwhile I take off the caps (at the bottom), I may move the tubes rightand left a little to prepare for drying process. I guess that Sir D diptube does have its bottom closed while setting up the varnish. I amtrying to open the bottom after varnish is all drained out for quickerdry.Thanks,Max -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from rclarke@eou.edu Fri Oct 30 10:51:50 1998 Subject: Re: Thread tensioners Fritz, I made mine with a bolt, 2 washers, a spring and a wing nut. Maynot be as nice as one these other tensioners, but it works for me. Muchcheaper than $4.59, also had everything in town here. Best of luck, youwill really like the binder! Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Fritz Wiese Subject: Thread tensionersDate: Friday, October 30, 1998 8:27 AM Recall someone asking about where to get tensioners. Am just gettingthings together to build T. Smithwick binder and picked up several atJanns- Netcraft, Toledo.Regular - #290-600 $4.59Deluxe - #290-601 $5.79 Has plastic knob indexed 1 thru 1 adjustment.(wow) 1-800-638-2723 Usual waiver of non-interest. Fritz Wiese from paul.york@noble.net Fri Oct 30 11:23:55 1998 (5.5.2232.9) Subject: Poor Restoration / Rod Specs? I'm looking for information on a rod that I just got back ( after 5 monthsof anticipation) from a local fellow that restores cane rods for a living. Ihave restored several myself, but this one was my grandfathers and Iwantedit done better than I thought I could do myself. I've seen this guys workbefore and was impressed. When I got the rod back yesterday, I was verydisappointed in the workmanship, and surprised that the rod was notrestoredto original as I had asked it to be. Totally different color wraps andtipping as well as inconsistent sizing and pattern than was on it, largeamounts of trash in the varnish, roughly sanded grip, and I could go on, andon. When I got it back, I asked to see where he had logged the rod, and hecouldn't find it.? I didn't log the rod or take a picture before I handed itover - my mistake! Have researched on the maker of the rod but can't find anything:Need info on guide spacing, warp and tip colors and any other info I canfind on who made the rod. The rod is a "Shapliegh's". 9' - 3 pcs. 6 1/2" Revhalf well. Had tipped guides with intermediate wraps AT 1.25" O.C. Has aredoval label with black lettering. Has the word "Sliver Creek" in sliver inkin front of the label. Thanks in advance for the help.Paul York from thramer@presys.com Fri Oct 30 11:32:40 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Plastic Rods & Splines Jean Conelli wrote: Golden Witch wrote: A.J. & all, Not only do THEY not spine the rods, they take strange pride innot doing so. Last year I met with the VP of a major WA state plasticrod making firm for a plant tour. When asked about spining the rodshe laughed and said it didn't matter on anything except heavysaltwater casting rods. He went on to claim that the entire notion ofspining a rod was concocted by custom builders like myself who neededto come up with a sales tool for marketing over-priced custom rods.He laid most of the blame for this on Dale Clemens & his book.He went on to explain how his "girls" positioned the guides whenwrapping: on the opposite side of the curve that was inherent toplastic rods in order to straighten the rods out for the showroomfloors in tackle shops. They wrap their rods for deception, notperformance. There are many reasons I'm shifting towards cane in my business,the attitude of many major plastics manufacturers being prime amongthem. Russ Golden Witch Rods - "Tools For Natural Philosophy"Golden Witch Technologies, Inc. - "The Golden Age Is Now"gwr@seanet.comhttp://www.goldenwitch.com -----Original Message-----From: A.J.Thramer Date: Thursday, October 29, 1998 10:47 AMSubject: Plastic Rods & Splines I have noticed that even those grosslyoverpriced(overmarketed?) plasticthings are not splined from the factory, a procedure thateven therankest bamboo beginner would not skip. The rodbuying publicisapparently so ignorant of quality construction methods thatthey do notcare or complain. I think that is one reason why a custombuilt plasticrod seems to cast better.A.J.Thramer Name: Golden Witch.vcfPart 1.2 Type: text/x-vcardEncoding: quoted- printableruss,was that lady bashing?, by you, or by the VP? does using the term"girls", mean that they are dumber, please explain...i always havetrouble finding the spline, but have now become more adept sincebuilding a coupla "plastic" rods. (such an ugly word..PLASTIC)..when ifinally do complete my first canerod, does that mean, icanneverturnback?jean (bacon@idt.net)Jean, He meant that litteraly. That is who they generally have wrappingthe rods.A.J. from thramer@presys.com Fri Oct 30 11:45:27 1998 0000 Subject: Plastic Splines-Again The plastic makers DO NOT spline their rods as you can tell by pickingone up and checking it in 5 seconds. It does not matter where the'curve' in the rod is we are looking for a weak plane in the rod and itdoes not generally correlate with a 'bend' or a 'curve'. This isbothersome in a $130 rod and criminally negligent on a grosslyoverpriced $600 rod. Shoddy work is shoddy work and the current fashion have spilled over into plastic rod manufacture. The traditional check onthis sort of behavior is the buying public, unfortunately we seem tohave a lot of newer anglers who have not developed a critical andeducated eye. The keyword anymore seems to be 'appearance oversubstance', and hype ans spin are working too wellSigning my name:A.J.Thramer from ljrp@penn.com Fri Oct 30 12:00:14 1998 Subject: Re: Plastic Splines-Again This tactic is nearly as bad as their feeble attempts to make their cheapaluminum seats look like nickel silver (I love that metal) A.J.Thramer wrote: The plastic makers DO NOT spline their rods as you can tell by pickingone up and checking it in 5 seconds. It does not matter where the'curve' in the rod is we are looking for a weak plane in the rod and itdoes not generally correlate with a 'bend' or a 'curve'. This isbothersome in a $130 rod and criminally negligent on a grosslyoverpriced $600 rod. Shoddy work is shoddy work and the current fashion have spilled over into plastic rod manufacture. The traditional check onthis sort of behavior is the buying public, unfortunately we seem tohave a lot of newer anglers who have not developed a critical andeducated eye. The keyword anymore seems to be 'appearance oversubstance', and hype ans spin are working too wellSigning my name:A.J.Thramer from ljrp@penn.com Fri Oct 30 12:02:27 1998 Subject: Re: Plastic Rods & Splines Most manufactures use ladies to wrap and finish the guides on their rodsbecause they are better at it then men no offense but a compliment to thegals.An answer to a previous post in regards to the gals A.J.Thramer wrote: Jean Conelli wrote: Golden Witch wrote: A.J. & all, Not only do THEY not spine the rods, they take strange pride innot doing so. Last year I met with the VP of a major WA state plasticrod making firm for a plant tour. When asked about spining the rodshe laughed and said it didn't matter on anything except heavysaltwater casting rods. He went on to claim that the entire notion ofspining a rod was concocted by custom builders like myself whoneededto come up with a sales tool for marketing over-priced custom rods.He laid most of the blame for this on Dale Clemens & his book.He went on to explain how his "girls" positioned the guides whenwrapping: on the opposite side of the curve that was inherent toplastic rods in order to straighten the rods out for the showroomfloors in tackle shops. They wrap their rods for deception, notperformance. There are many reasons I'm shifting towards cane in my business,the attitude of many major plastics manufacturers being primeamongthem. Russ Golden Witch Rods - "Tools For Natural Philosophy"Golden Witch Technologies, Inc. - "The Golden Age Is Now"gwr@seanet.comhttp://www.goldenwitch.com -----Original Message-----From: A.J.Thramer Date: Thursday, October 29, 1998 10:47 AMSubject: Plastic Rods & Splines I have noticed that even those grosslyoverpriced(overmarketed?) plasticthings are not splined from the factory, a procedure thateven therankest bamboo beginner would not skip. The rodbuying publicisapparently so ignorant of quality construction methods thatthey do notcare or complain. I think that is one reason why a custombuilt plasticrod seems to cast better.A.J.Thramer Name: Golden Witch.vcfPart 1.2 Type: text/x-vcardEncoding: quoted- printableruss,was that lady bashing?, by you, or by the VP? does using the term"girls", mean that they are dumber, please explain...i always havetrouble finding the spline, but have now become more adept sincebuilding a coupla "plastic" rods. (such an ugly word..PLASTIC)..when ifinally do complete my first canerod, does that mean, icanneverturnback?jean (bacon@idt.net)Jean, He meant that litteraly. That is who they generally have wrappingthe rods.A.J. from fritzwiese@webtv.net Fri Oct 30 12:13:33 1998 mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP idKAA12433; 112.iap.bryant.webtv.net(8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id KAA21913; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 10:13:31 -0800 ETAsAhRCjaJ5w4VIlmZ1IDXcGQtfSnYLOwIUdJ3UB5dpl0iqoHltyMLEh8r/by8= Subject: Re: Plastic Splines-Again --WebTV-Mail-1017627055-878 After lots of plastic rods built - I finally found Steffan Bros inPhoenix. Tip is installed correctly, and each section is wrapped withtape with a witness mark for the spline. With two brothers doing thework it's not exactly a production shop. They do take pride in whatthey build and Mark Steffan has told me that the last thing that hewants is a large order. All in the approach to the marketing effortisn't it? Fritz Wiese --WebTV-Mail-1017627055-878 (mailsorter-102.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/po.gso.24Feb98) mailsorter-102.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.graham.14Aug97) with wugate.wustl.edu(8.8.8/8.8.5) LAA22060 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 0000 preferred-sys.presys.com with SMTP; 30 Oct 1998 17:45:25 -0000 Subject: Plastic Splines-Again The plastic makers DO NOT spline their rods as you can tell by pickingone up and checking it in 5 seconds. It does not matter where the'curve' in the rod is we are looking for a weak plane in the rod and itdoes not generally correlate with a 'bend' or a 'curve'. This isbothersome in a $130 rod and criminally negligent on a grosslyoverpriced $600 rod. Shoddy work is shoddy work and the current fashion have spilled over into plastic rod manufacture. The traditional check onthis sort of behavior is the buying public, unfortunately we seem tohave a lot of newer anglers who have not developed a critical andeducated eye. The keyword anymore seems to be 'appearance oversubstance', and hype ans spin are working too wellSigning my name:A.J.Thramer --WebTV-Mail-1017627055-878-- from dhaftel@att.com Fri Oct 30 12:18:37 1998 sender att.com!dhaftel (att.com!dhaftel); Fri Oct 30 11:53 EST 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) (5.5.2232.9) Subject: RE: Thread tensioners I think part of the reason they're a little expensive is that they'repolished to prevent fraying of the thread. I bought one from Dale Clemen's Pricy? Yes, but it's got a nice smooth finish on it. Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Robert Clarke [SMTP:rclarke@eou.edu]Sent: Friday, October 30, 1998 11:51 AM Subject: Re: Thread tensioners Fritz, I made mine with a bolt, 2 washers, a spring and a wing nut. Maynot be as nice as one these other tensioners, but it works for me. Muchcheaper than $4.59, also had everything in town here. Best of luck, youwill really like the binder! Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Fritz Wiese Subject: Thread tensionersDate: Friday, October 30, 1998 8:27 AM Recall someone asking about where to get tensioners. Am just gettingthings together to build T. Smithwick binder and picked up several atJanns- Netcraft, Toledo.Regular - #290-600 $4.59Deluxe - #290-601 $5.79 Has plastic knob indexed 1 thru 1 adjustment.(wow) 1-800-638-2723 Usual waiver of non-interest. Fritz Wiese from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Fri Oct 30 12:25:07 1998 0500 Subject: Re[2]: Why Straight? Nope...I just wasn't thinking...then it sounded good so I just repeated the term...spline it is...Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Why Straight? Author: at Tcpgate andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com wrote: Even graphite rods have a spine and I have always spined the blanksbefore building the rods. Whether this really does matter in casting Idon't know. It probably has an effect, but whether this is noticableor not, or is just a psychological thing, I don't know. I think youwould have to compare before and after the bamboo rod isstraightened.What might be fine might be noticably better once straightened. Also it is probably a question of degree. If it's a BIG set, or in aparticular direction that's out of the plane of an individual'scasting stroke, straightening it may make a perceivable difference,but otherwise not. Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________Subject: Re: Why Straight?Author: at TcpgateDate: 10/29/98 4:30 AM I had the same question when I was talking to the late Bruno Kurt (soldme one of his forms due to retirement) and he answered: 'nature is notstraight and what else is a bamboo rod as a fine part of nature'.This answer gave me a bit of relief in my struggle for a straight rod.Nevertheless I try to make a rod as straight as possible still knowingone can't compete with the straightnes of a "industrial plastic rod".nil desperandumtight linesMichael SalarFly@aol.com wrote: I've been casting and fishing with quite a few older and justdownright old bamboo rods lately. One thing I have noticedis that very few of them are straight. Almost all of them havea set in them. The set doesn't seem to matter a bit as faras casting or landing a fish. When we make a rod we make them as straight as we can(at least I do) . Is this neccessary? Other than for appearancesake, why do rods have to be straight? Darrylguys,in graphite rodmaking, it's called a spline, is it called a "spine" incanerod building, is it the same thing?thanks for the info,jean (bacon@idt.net) from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Oct 30 12:51:31 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Plastic Rods & Splines Russ,I,too, have cut my teeth on fiberglass and graphite rods,trying todetermine which of 2 "bumps" I should use as the spine or spline. Anyderogatory remarks I make regarding "plastic" rods are tongue-in- cheek.Regards,Hank. from arnold_jeff@hotmail.com Fri Oct 30 14:48:07 1998 0000 Fri, 30 Oct 1998 12:48:12 PST Subject: Re: Why Straight? Onis, from one sparky to another......Amen! Jeff Onis Wrote:When I was young and just beginning to study electronics, everything wasvacuum tubes that were hand wired together. I worked for an electricianwho gave me some sage advice. Upon learning that I was studyingelectronics, he looked me straight in the eye and said "Always make squarebends!" Believe it or not, I understood his meaning. Years later I taught a shop class for electronic technicians. I had anopportunity to study the performance of projects built by the studentscompared to the quality of their work. Those who strove for excellence and"made square bends" never seemed to have problems getting projects to workproperly. Those who took shortcuts in an attempt to get the project over,always had problems. I guess that I believe that if I address theaesthetics, the difficult issues will take care of themselves. Just a pearl of worthless wisdom. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from sshorb@ozip.net Fri Oct 30 15:07:23 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-55785U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Fri, 30 Oct 1998 15:07:57 -0600 Subject: flat,curved nodes I just put a 1 7/8 x .025 dp radius in the movable jaw of my vise.Worked good, now I don't have a flat spot at the node to interrupt thelengthwise curve it the strip. Flat one way, curved the other. Idea gotme excited even tho it's probably being used by others. Skip from sshorb@ozip.net Fri Oct 30 15:24:36 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-55785U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Fri, 30 Oct 1998 15:25:12 -0600 Subject: flat, curved nodes correction Should be 15/16 radius, 1 7/8 dia. Skip from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Fri Oct 30 15:33:36 1998 via smap(4.1) 13:37:19 PST Subject: Rice Thread I received my Jave Beige thread from Jon Lintvet at the Munro RodCompany. It looks like very good stuff in an appropriate bamboo rod size. Thanks again to Jon for the work he did in developing this group order. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from rcurry@top.monad.net Fri Oct 30 16:57:36 1998 Subject: Re: When is a Leonard not a Leonard Don Andersen wrote:Reed, If you got a bunch of Ford parts and made yourself a car - It would stillbe a Ford. However, the assembly of those parts may have been donebetteror worse than the Ford assembly plant. Still, the assembler should be and runs like one - Yup - its a Ford. DonDon,The only difference between your excellent analogy and the rodsmade from blanks is that typically the blanks are not cut to length. Lets say Oldrodmaker runs off two hundred butt sections at 48", twohundred mids at 48" and four hundred tips at 48"; then promptly dies from stress. How do we know where to cut and ferrule the variouscomponents to produce the rods he intended? (Let's say that in his deaththroes he set fire to his notes.)The Ford parts will only fit one way (sloppy). But how manythousandsof different rods we could make from the parts Oldrodmaker left us!Best regards,Reed from rcurry@top.monad.net Fri Oct 30 17:04:39 1998 Subject: Re: Rod Identification again? irish-george wrote: Hi Reed, The BLANK you have in hand, was it ever built into a rod by Halstead? George,No, it wasn't. He only ferruled the mid; and only the butt isdelaminated. I'm going to re-glue and finish it out this winter. Itshould be a nice 8' 3/2 5 wt.I'm easy with any explanation, I just need to hear it. Martin's soundsas valid as any other.Best regards,Reed from caneboy@xtn.net Fri Oct 30 18:55:09 1998 Subject: Thread My thread order from Jon Lintvet arrived in yesterday's mail and looksto be outstanding. Thank you Jon for providing a great service to rodmakers. from anglport@con2.com Fri Oct 30 19:29:48 1998 Subject: Re: Probond Joe,On the up-side, you could use it as a final treatment to close all the openwounds you have as a cane rod builder! Should hold them 'til they heal.Art Hello all. If there is a downside to the glue (other than the fact that it never comesoff your hands--preventing the execution of the true secrethandshake--sorry) is that though. Did I mention that its really hard to get it off your hands, though? Best,Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from bdcreek@grand-rapids.crosswinds.net Fri Oct 30 19:37:04 1998 (envelope- from bdcreek@grand-rapids.crosswinds.net) Subject: Re: THE handshake/Please no more grits from briansr@point-net.com Fri Oct 30 20:32:25 1998 0000 Subject: Hardy tip Hi ListWould anyone know ehere a rod tip for a Hardy Koh-I-nor could be had?TIA Brian Sturrock from briansr@point-net.com Fri Oct 30 20:32:25 1998 0000 Subject: H.Carmichael Would anyone know if Hoagy Carmicheal the rodmaker was the musician orH.C.jrTIA Brian Sturrock from ddodd@hrfn.net Fri Oct 30 20:56:24 1998 (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA11611 for ;Fri, 30 Oct1998 22:05:01 -0500 Subject: Re: cork deadline David "Cork Man", I have check waiting on kitchen counter. Been busy too.Send me an address to mail to and i will send tomorrow. Reply off list to Newbie Dave at ddodd@hrfn.net Thanks in advance,Dave Dodd -----Original Message----- Subject: cork deadline To all who have sent money for corkandTo all who have been meaning to send money for cork but just haven'tquitegotten around to it yet I just sent notices out to all whose checks I've received, except for FrankCaruso, so if you've sent money, or are presently sending it, and haven'tgot a notice- and you're not Frank- please write me toot sweet so I holdupon the order. Don't want to leave anybody out, but the time is fastapproaching and I'm already getting death threats. Well not exactly deaththreats but polite inquiries, which is the same thing, except for thethreatof death. Please be patient if I don't answer promptly the next couple of days as Iwill not be to the house much. I'll be ah... working.... yeah, that's theticket. Working. Right. Davy from tbeckfam@pacbell.net Fri Oct 30 22:32:30 1998 mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id UAA28543 for Subject: Re: Fiberglass vs. Mineral Wool (Rock Wool) mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu wrote: Duct tape or other sticky tape is also helpful. Stick it on and peelit off and it sticks to the glass fibers and pulls them out. Thisworks on cactus spines too.Jon McAnulty Yeah! It also does a great job ripping hair out by the roots!T. Becker from saweiss@flash.net Fri Oct 30 23:27:02 1998 Subject: Re: When is a Leonard not a Leonard -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: When is a Leonard not a Leonard Onis Cogburn wrote: I would have to agree with you. In addition there is the question oftheirhistory. Were they manufactured as part of the companies basic line orwere they manufactured as blanks to be resold. The answer has atremendousimpact on quality. A product sold as a representative of the company"Brand" is expected to carry the companies highest quality; afterall thatis a cornerstone of the buisness. Resale merchandise does not have tobesubjected to the same requirements as the "Branded" merchandise.Considerthe "store brand" merchandise. Is the Kroger, Safeway, WallMart etc.brands the same quality as those of the companies,(Del Monte, Libby,etc.)that really made them. In some cases, yes; in others, no. The company Heathkit made electronic kits. They were very sucessfulatwhat they did because they made a superior product. Over the course oftime, they were bought and sold several times. The quality of theHeathkitreflected the owner and not all Heathkits were equal. Even in the caseofownership of brand name and all logos, there will be a difference inmanufacturing and/or sales practices which will reflect on the qualityofthe product. Partly built by Leonard should never equate to "Built byLeonard". IMHO. I fully agree that no one should assemble components and pass theresulting rods off as originals, but there is an intererting wrinkleto this thread: weren't the Leonard Duracanes assembled by Leonard from Sharpes' blanks? I have always found it amusing that thoseimpregnated rods generally sell for about twice the value of WesJordan-era Orvis Battenkill or Madison rods which, IMHO, aregenerally much better fishing rods. Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us Let me add another potato to this stew. I have an 8' 4/5 Leonard North ForkSpecial, which is a graphite , blank made by Fisher, rod assembled in theLeonard shop. Is it a Leonard?Steve from saweiss@flash.net Fri Oct 30 23:42:23 1998 Subject: Re: H.Carmichael -----Original Message----- Subject: H.Carmichael Would anyone know if Hoagy Carmicheal the rodmaker was the musicianorH.C.jrTIA Brian Sturrock Jr, I believe.Steve from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sat Oct 31 00:23:23 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Rod Identification again? Hi Reed, The only thing I forgot to write that makes the whole thing make a bitmoresense, was that Keane was talking about surplus glues that were made forthemilitary that became available when WW II ended. This also raises a question related to the "When is a Leonard not aLeonard"thread. Once the inventory of a rod company comes under the control ofsomeone other than said company's rodmakers (such as in a bankruptcyauction), you cannot assume that the "components" (blanks, reel seats,etc.)sold to you meet the quality standards that the rodmaker himself (orherself) would have sold. I think any rods made from components obtainedinthis manner should resist the temptation to say anything more than thattheywere assembled from "liquidated inventory" from XYZ Company. Suchinventorycould very well consist of seconds, rejects, experiments, etc. George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Rod Identification again? irish-george wrote: Hi Reed, The BLANK you have in hand, was it ever built into a rod by Halstead? George,No, it wasn't. He only ferruled the mid; and only the butt isdelaminated. I'm going to re-glue and finish it out this winter. Itshould be a nice 8' 3/2 5 wt.I'm easy with any explanation, I just need to hear it. Martin's soundsas valid as any other.Best regards,Reed from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sat Oct 31 00:26:44 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Hardy tip Is this one of those "Who's buried in Grant's tomb?" questions? I'll go forthe obvious (since they are still in business and still making bamboo rods):Have you tried Hardy? George Bourke -----Original Message----- Subject: Hardy tip Hi ListWould anyone know ehere a rod tip for a Hardy Koh-I-nor could be had?TIA Brian Sturrock from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sat Oct 31 00:27:37 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: H.Carmichael It is Jr. George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: H.Carmichael Would anyone know if Hoagy Carmicheal the rodmaker was the musicianorH.C.jrTIA Brian Sturrock from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sat Oct 31 00:35:22 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: When is a Leonard not a Leonard I think this is an easy one to answer. Let me ask a few questions: 1) Was the Leonard shop that assembled it one that had a continuous lineofapprentices from the time of Hiram Leonard?2) Were the Leonard rodbuilders in control of what constituted that rodmodel?(Did they select the components that gave the rod the look and feel thatthey wanted it to have?)3) Did they have final say over whether it met their quality standards andgot shipped on to the customer or if it was to be destroyed? I think if the answers to #1, #2, & #3 are yes, then you have a Leonard rod. George Bourke -----Original Message-----Let me add another potato to this stew. I have an 8' 4/5 Leonard NorthForkSpecial, which is a graphite , blank made by Fisher, rod assembled in theLeonard shop. Is it a Leonard?Steve from maxs@geocities.co.jp Sat Oct 31 01:08:28 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id QAA05343for; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 16:08:22 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: H.Carmichael Brian,It's the son of H.C. who played in Laramy. So, H.C. Jr.. He returnedto show business again.Max Brian Sturrock wrote: Would anyone know if Hoagy Carmicheal the rodmaker was the musicianorH.C.jrTIA Brian Sturrock -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from maxs@geocities.co.jp Sat Oct 31 01:09:12 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id QAA05781for; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 16:09:08 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Why Straight? SalarFly@aol.com wrote: I've been casting and fishing with quite a few older and justdownright old bamboo rods lately. One thing I have noticedis that very few of them are straight. Almost all of them havea set in them. The set doesn't seem to matter a bit as faras casting or landing a fish. When we make a rod we make them as straight as we can(at least I do) . Is this neccessary? Other than for appearancesake, why do rods have to be straight? Darryl Darryl, IMHO, straightness is the approximation of eveness of strength, up anddown, right and left. Since a rod has 6 flats and we stagger nodesaround a rod, the strength of each side differs at various points.When I made #1 weight or #2 weight rod (though I had no chance to use ityet), it is hard to keep the tip flex vertically. The thinner the tip,the more difficult to make it even.If a rod has this un-evenness, the rod will try to twist itself whencasted. When ferrule has smoother joint, the rod turns while casting. Even if it doesn't turn, such stress is always put on the rod. So,IMHO, rod should have even strength (or flex) especially at right andleft sides, even if it is not straight enough. But there is no way tofind the strengh of each point of measure. So, we try to straighten therod expecting this eveness. When you mount ferrules on blank, are you sure they are alwaysstraight? No, in my case. After finding the spine of each section, Iusually found that male ferrule has a slight bend to one way and femaleto another way. Then I try to match this couple of male/female to bebalanced. I have to give up the original spine then. I try to find anew spine as a whole connected rod instead of by each section. Thisprocess is trying to find the evenness and straightness. Even a rod hasright dogleg and left dogleg, it can be cast straight if it is balanced.All IMHO. Max-- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from dellc@nextdim.com Sat Oct 31 01:43:08 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id AC583FBE0072; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 23:29:28 PDT Subject: Re: Why Straight? Do any builders use the ossillation method of tuning the tip or tips of arod? If each flat is held solid on a table edge at the ferrule then flexedand released, one set of flats will usually flex in a straight line whilethe others will usually flex in a circle or oval. My reason for testing thisis that I believe the rod will also flex in a straight line while casting.Dell Coppock-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Why Straight? SalarFly@aol.com wrote: I've been casting and fishing with quite a few older and justdownright old bamboo rods lately. One thing I have noticedis that very few of them are straight. Almost all of them havea set in them. The set doesn't seem to matter a bit as faras casting or landing a fish. When we make a rod we make them as straight as we can(at least I do) . Is this neccessary? Other than for appearancesake, why do rods have to be straight? Darryl Darryl, IMHO, straightness is the approximation of eveness of strength, up anddown, right and left. Since a rod has 6 flats and we stagger nodesaround a rod, the strength of each side differs at various points.When I made #1 weight or #2 weight rod (though I had no chance to use ityet), it is hard to keep the tip flex vertically. The thinner the tip,the more difficult to make it even.If a rod has this un-evenness, the rod will try to twist itself whencasted. When ferrule has smoother joint, the rod turns while casting.Even if it doesn't turn, such stress is always put on the rod. So,IMHO, rod should have even strength (or flex) especially at right andleft sides, even if it is not straight enough. But there is no way tofind the strengh of each point of measure. So, we try to straighten therod expecting this eveness.When you mount ferrules on blank, are you sure they are alwaysstraight? No, in my case. After finding the spine of each section, Iusually found that male ferrule has a slight bend to one way and femaleto another way. Then I try to match this couple of male/female to bebalanced. I have to give up the original spine then. I try to find anew spine as a whole connected rod instead of by each section. Thisprocess is trying to find the evenness and straightness. Even a rod hasright dogleg and left dogleg, it can be cast straight if it is balanced.All IMHO. Max--Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sat Oct 31 04:04:06 1998 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0100 Subject: Sv: Hardy tip EAA00068 Hi ListWould anyone know ehere a rod tip for a Hardy Koh-I-nor could be had?TIA Brian SturrockDid on one occasion inquired at Hardys whether a tip for a HalfordKnockabout wasavailable (rod from the 20'es) It was, but at a price of some 300 pounds,As thisis probably a one off, this price seems reasonable to me. Brian, dont hesitate to call Hardy's in England. They are a fine bunch ofguys,service and quality second to none in the business. regards Carsten from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sat Oct 31 04:18:35 1998 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0100 Subject: Sv: Why Straight? EAA08522 Do any builders use the ossillation method of tuning the tip or tips of arod? If each flat is held solid on a table edge at the ferrule then flexedand released, one set of flats will usually flex in a straight line whilethe others will usually flex in a circle or oval. My reason for testing thisis that I believe the rod will also flex in a straight line while casting.Dell Coppock Dell, You're spot on. It is the tip of the rod, that moves the line. Wheterthecane between tip and handle is straigth or not, does not matter (onlyappearencevise) A straight movement back and forth of the tip is what we arelooking for,since this means no waste of energy in the castingstroke and movement ofthe line.A flyline moving straight needs less energy and is more controllable andprecise. Splining the rod means determing whether You want more power inforward- orbackcast. The oscillating methed means determing wheter you wantprecision andbest USE of the force in the rod - or not. Fire at will, gentlemen regards Carsten from saltwein@swbell.net Sat Oct 31 05:28:28 1998 gw3adm.rcsntx.swbell.net TAA25896 Subject: Re: Leonard not Leonard Anachemrpo@aol.com wrote: I have a Leonard that is not a Leonard. I refer to it as "built from a Leonard blank", which I purchased from LenCodella a few years ago.I was also able to acquire a butt cap with the original Leonard logostampedinto it from REC (when it was still in Vermont, owned by Bill Alley, whohadthe rights to the name at that time). I used components that matched thespecsof original Leonard rods (as described by Mr. Codella), such as abutternutspacer, Chinese red wraps and cigar grip... But it still is described to those who ask, as "built on a Leonard blank",'cause that's what it is. I wouldn't dream of calling it anything else. Russ L. The description of this rod matches well the one I posted the other day.I have no specific knowledge of the provenance of the rod. I supposethat I assumed to much from what the rod was presented to be (it isbeautiful). I stand corrected and hopefully better educated and willnot present errant tapers in the future. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from anglport@con2.com Sat Oct 31 05:44:07 1998 Subject: Re: H.Carmichael Brian,Hoagy-the-rod-builder is Hoagy Bix Carmichael, son of the song- writer.Betya can't guess where the "Bix" came from !Art from maxs@geocities.co.jp Sat Oct 31 06:52:14 1998 geocities.co.jp (8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id VAA05332for; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 21:52:09 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Drip tube robert.kope wrote: Darryl (and the list), My question(s) to you and the rest of the list are these: at whatpoint do you dip your rods? Do you dip the raw blank, mount theferules first, install the grip and reel seat first, apply butt andferrule wraps first?. Do I need to abandon my plan to use the dripmethod and pull this rod from the tube? Thanks in advance for your sage advice. -- Robert Kope Hello Robert, I can understand your frustration. I recalled when I started rodmaking. So far, I experienced several varnishing. Let me summarizethem; Rubbing type varnishing:Tong oil finish, Urushi varnishing requires to varnish by rubbing entirerod. In this case, it is needed to varnish before wrapping guides. Inoil finish urethane's case, I mount ferrules, reel seat and cork gripbefore varnishing becuase I just hate to put glue on the varnishedsurface and to file the varnished blank. There may be someone whovarnish before mounting ferrules, reel seat and grip even in this case. Urushi varnishing is different. Since Urushi requires moisture when itdries, I have to rub Urushi on the blank first. In the case, if I mountcork before varnishing, I have to put cork into the moisture dryer too. It is inconvenient for cork. So in this case, I varnish the blankbefore mounting cork, reel seat.As for ferrule, it is the person's favourit. I just hate to file theblank after varnising. I might damage the varnish. So ferrules aremounted before varnishing. Brushing, Dip tube, Drip tube type varnishing:I think there are two ways based on ones favourit. Wrap first: This is a simple way to varnish on the wrap. It will give us a smoothcontinuous surface from flat to wrap. Looks nice. As Sir D suggested(I myself will try to do this from now on), a slower drain rate willdo. Darryl says 1-2" per minutes at the top. I hope it will work.If you want a thick coating on wraps, you can put more varnish on wrapsafter you completed the first varnish too. Varnish Blank first:This is rather step wise method. I usually use this method for brushvarnishing. After having ferrules, reel seat and grip on the rod, Ivarnish the blank. When it dries, I wrap the guides and ferrules. After applying color reserver on the wraps, I varnish the wraps again. I use this to havethick coating on the wrap. It will also give a nice look. But specialcare is needed not to flow the varnish out side of the wrap too much. Another merit, IMHO, is when I need to replace some guide due to somereason, broken, crashed, stretched, etc., I do not need to take thecoating off entirely but I just take the guide off and re-wrap andre-varnish it. I just wanted to show you there are several suitable sequences of doingthings in each situation. So, you should go along with your original plan. I also try the same way with you bravely. Someone says "Failure is themother of success".Good luck for you too.Max -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from channer@hubwest.com Sat Oct 31 07:44:38 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A4AA48D0134; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 06:46:18 MDT Subject: Re: Drip tube At 05:40 PM 10/29/98 -0800, you wrote:Darryl (and the list), Welcome back. I noticed in your reply to Satoh-san that you dip rodsbefore wrapping the guides. I assume that this is because you cannotclearthe finish from the guides, or pause to let the varnish drain after a guideemerges while it is inside the drip tube. This had occurred to me, but Ilacked information about dipping before wrapping. Both the old and newtestaments (Garrison/Carmichael and Cattanach) only discuss dippingafterwrapping in depth. Sinclair also only discusses varnishing after wrappingthe guides. I have my first rod ready to dip and was planning on using the drip tubemethod. However, I have already wrapped the guides and sealed the wraps.The rod (a Cattanach "Sir D", of course) is complete except for the varnishand final fitting the ferrules. I'm using spar urethane and was unsure atwhat point to apply the finish if I varnished the rod before wrapping. My question(s) to you and the rest of the list are these: at what pointdo you dip your rods? Do you dip the raw blank, mount the ferules first,install the grip and reel seat first, apply butt and ferrule wraps first?.Do I need to abandon my plan to use the drip method and pull this rod fromthe tube? Thanks in advance for your sage advice. -- Robert Kope Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\ATTACH\Driptube.htm" Robert;As with most every other phase of rodmaking, varnishing methods are a"whatworks best for you" kind of thing.There are so many ways of doing it thatyou need to experiment to see which one you can get along with. I havefound that dipping and pulling the rod section works best for me. I mountall the guides , ferrules and cork before I varnish, so when I pull the rodsection I can stop at the bottom of each wrap and let the excess drain andI can also get rid of any bubbles before I go on. My house is on a crawlspace and I varnish in the spare bedroon, so I was able to cut a hole inthe floor for the tube to drop down. I varnished one rod before I mountedthe guides and found that I had missed a twist in one tip when Istraightened it the first time, so I had to strip it down to fix it. Now Ijust put the guides on first, then I can see if it is straight before Ivarnish.Good luck with whatever methods you try John Channer from briansr@point-net.com Sat Oct 31 07:55:54 1998 0000 Subject: H.C. Jr. it isThanks guys & Art what did " Bix" stand for?I'd met Hoagy (JR) briefly back in the early 70's & couldn't imagine him asJr.Cheers Brian from jczimny@dol.net Sat Oct 31 08:05:08 1998 Subject: Re: H.Carmichael Biederbicke? Art Port wrote: Brian,Hoagy-the-rod-builder is Hoagy Bix Carmichael, son of the song- writer.Betya can't guess where the "Bix" came from !Art from anglport@con2.com Sat Oct 31 08:49:52 1998 Subject: Re: H.C. Brian,I see you're either younger than some of us or "jazzicallychallenged". Bix Beiderbach was a terrific cornetist who was a good friendand sometime collaborator with Hoagy (pere). Bix died at a very young age(Ithink of musician's disease; either alcohol or drugs). Hoagy (the younger)once told me that either his dad would have become a lawyer or wouldhavedone it much earlier in life (I can't remember which) had it not been forBix showing up to yank "Dad" off to a gig somewhere just when he wasgettingclose to finishing his education! has gone BACK to show business. His friendship and collaboration withGaryGarrison developed BECAUSE he was in entertainment at that time and Idon'tthink he ever left. He told me he was working on the Mr. Rogers PBS showwhen he met Gary on (maybe the) Beaverkill. He apparently asked Garywherehe got the cane rod and Gary replied that he made it and Hoagy responded"No, where'd you REALLY get it?" When he found out the story of how theywere made he virtually moved in with the Garrisons for about two years ofweekends while they intended to make a document of the craft ( I thinkthat's the film that we've spoken of on the list in the past). I believe"The Book" was a secondary consideration at that time. Several timeswhen Imet him shortly after the book was published he mentioned attempting toputtogether a B'way show and he also mentioned that he had/has managedjazzbands over the years. I don't think he ever left show business--he justtookon the rodmaking as a love on the side.Art At 08:55 AM 10/31/98 -0500, you wrote:Jr. it isThanks guys & Art what did " Bix" stand for?I'd met Hoagy (JR) briefly back in the early 70's & couldn't imagine him asJr.Cheers Brian from rcurry@top.monad.net Sat Oct 31 09:57:49 1998 Subject: Re: Rod Identification again? irish-george wrote:This also raises a question related to the "When is a Leonard not aLeonard"thread. Once the inventory of a rod company comes under the control ofsomeone other than said company's rodmakers (such as in a bankruptcyauction), you cannot assume that the "components" (blanks, reel seats,etc.)sold to you meet the quality standards that the rodmaker himself (orherself) would have sold. I think any rods made from componentsobtained inthis manner should resist the temptation to say anything more than thattheywere assembled from "liquidated inventory" from XYZ Company. Suchinventorycould very well consist of seconds, rejects, experiments, etc. George BourkeGeorge,I couldn't agree more. I once had an opportunity to buy a lot of Uslanblanks; this was after the demise of the company. These blanks shouldhave been fed into the woodstove; nevertheless, they were being sold as"Uslan".Best regards,Reed from rmoon@ida.net Sat Oct 31 10:27:22 1998 Subject: Re: H.Carmichael He is the son of the composerRalph from EPerez2677@aol.com Sat Oct 31 11:46:48 1998 Subject: Re: Tonkin supplier HI MARK TUXEDO CANEP.O. BOX 1167PHONE- DAY 209/ 948-6500 ( 7am.- 3:30pm. MON. / FRI.)EVE 209/ 464-6133 ( 7pm.- 10:30pm. MON. / FRI. & SAT 9:00am.7:00pm.)FAX 209/ 948-6757 ANY TIME JUST LEAVE YOUR NAME , ADDRESS, AND PHONE #, AND THEY WILL SENDYOU A NEWPRICE CATALOGUE . from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Oct 31 12:07:41 1998 Subject: Re: H.Carmichael Off the topic, I know, but for those who might want to see Hoagy Sr, checkoutthe classic Bogie and Bacall movie "To Have and Have Not." The pianoplayer"Cricket" is played by Hoagy Carmichael the composer. from gwbarnes@gwi.net Sat Oct 31 13:05:42 1998 Subject: Re: Hardy tip Brian Sturrock wrote: Hi ListWould anyone know ehere a rod tip for a Hardy Koh-I-nor could be had?TIA Brian Sturrock Hardy is still making rods so that may be a possibility. Was at theirfactory and museum in Alnwick, England about three weeks ago and therewere every kind and model of rod imaginable. from jhewitt@cmn.net Sat Oct 31 13:37:14 1998 Subject: Hendryx Just got a rod in for restoration. It's a "HENDRYX" 9'4" - 3/2. I'm notfamiliar with "HENDRYX" rods does anybody have any info? Thanks. JohnHewitt. from srosenc@together.net Sat Oct 31 15:09:06 1998 Subject: Re: When is a Leonard not a Leonard irish-george wrote: I think this is an easy one to answer. Let me ask a few questions: 1) Was the Leonard shop that assembled it one that had a continuous lineofapprentices from the time of Hiram Leonard?2) Were the Leonard rodbuilders in control of what constituted that rodmodel?(Did they select the components that gave the rod the look and feel thatthey wanted it to have?)3) Did they have final say over whether it met their quality standardsandgot shipped on to the customer or if it was to be destroyed? I think if the answers to #1, #2, & #3 are yes, then you have a Leonardrod. George Bourke -----Original Message-----Let me add another potato to this stew. I have an 8' 4/5 Leonard NorthForkSpecial, which is a graphite , blank made by Fisher, rod assembled intheLeonard shop. Is it a Leonard?Steve I have a 7' 2/2 that was built in 1995 from Orvis Impregnated blanks to Orvis specifications by my father who built rods at Orvis from 1946 to 1978. Would this be a true Orvis rod? Steve from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Oct 31 15:42:10 1998 Subject: Re: Re: When is a Leonard not a Leonard O K so Leonard and orvis have changed hands a number of times so areLeonardsof today of the same quality as the ones from the 70s or are the ones thatwere made when Larry Foster owned it the same quality as the ones beingmadetoday. If it was not made by the company in their facilities then I don'tthink it can be called a Leonard or an orvis or who ever else is out there.Ron Barch owns some blanks that are Leonard blanks but if I or anyone elseonthe list builds on these blanks even if we use all original parts they willnever be Leonards on;y Leonards built as kits per se.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Oct 31 15:43:41 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Rod Identification? Mike, Don,Bernard Hills told me at one time Heddon made a lot of blanks for PaulYoungas he could not keep up. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Oct 31 15:46:46 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Why Straight? Darryl,I was always under the assumption that a crooked rod would throsinewaves intoyour cast because of the line not having a straight plane to slide thru. Anythoughts on this?Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Oct 31 15:55:28 1998 Subject: Re: Re: When is a Leonard not a Leonard Terry, I have to disagree with you on an orvis battenkill or a madison being abetterrod than a Leonard Duracane. I own both and the Leonard will thro a muchbetter line than the orvis any day. As a matter of fact I would sell theorvis rods in a heart beat and never let the Leonard go. Bret from fritzwiese@webtv.net Sat Oct 31 16:11:02 1998 mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP idOAA08062; 111.iap.bryant.webtv.net(8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id OAA27954; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 14:10:59 -0800 ETAsAhRxTTqYWVK6gTF9NBX/jasy3Ygq/AIUSX4xpLStZeYH+97fScv+CG+edU8= Subject: Heddon #50 President Have taken in a restoration. Customer took a pen knife and took off thegrips then realised he was over his head. Remember the Heddon as aunique reverse half wells. Have Sinclairs restoration hand book butthat grip is not documeted. I don't have his Heddon book yet. Is itpossible that the grip is in that book?Years ago I always use Valspar spar varnish.Not available in my area. Don't even know if they are still inbusiness. What spar varnish do you use? Put the rod in my drying cabinet for a month, then cast it with #5 and #6 DT silks. This is one powerful rod! Complete melt down. Havestripped it and mic'ed the taper. Would be happy to list taper ifanybody is interested. All complete w/tube and original case. Even the label on the case isintact. Owner put his name and year 1936 on rod. Couldn't save thatbut the Heddon markings are OK. This is an 8 1/2 ft 3/2 rod with #2 ferrules. Classic shows as 5.20oz. Pls and Thx Fritz Wiese from saltwein@swbell.net Sat Oct 31 16:50:26 1998 gw1adm.rcsntx.swbell.net QAA17754 Subject: Re: H.C. ..... weekends while they intended to make a document of the craft ( Ithinkthat's the film that we've spoken of on the list in the past). Whatever happened to the film Art? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sat Oct 31 17:15:48 1998 Subject: Re: Why Straight? At 23:45 30/10/98 -0800, you wrote:Do any builders use the ossillation method of tuning the tip or tips of arod? If each flat is held solid on a table edge at the ferrule then flexedand released, one set of flats will usually flex in a straight line whilethe others will usually flex in a circle or oval. My reason for testing thisis that I believe the rod will also flex in a straight line while casting.Dell Coppock Dell, Yup - it works just fine - you get the casting plane right one but youstill need to determine the strong/weak sides for guide placement. Don from anglport@con2.com Sat Oct 31 17:19:17 1998 Subject: Re: H.C. Steve,I was going to answer you off-list as I don't know if the other guys arestill interested but I don't know where you can find a copy and someoneelsemay. I saw the film quite a few years ago when Hoagy spoke to our(CentralJersey ) Trout Unltd Chapter. I know it still exists but have no idea howyou might view a copy. I may heve seen it in the video part of a flyfishingcatalog in the last year or so.Anybody have a suggestion?ArtBTW: A sign of how the guys in rodmaking are; when I asked Hoagy howmuchhe'd want to speak to our TU Chap., his response was: "I'll do it for freeas long as your other speakers do. I've just found out though that I've gone need to get paid." At 04:52 PM 10/31/98 -0800, you wrote:..... weekends while they intended to make a document of the craft ( Ithinkthat's the film that we've spoken of on the list in the past). Whatever happened to the film Art? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from Canerods@aol.com Sat Oct 31 17:37:20 1998 Subject: Re: Heddon #50 President In a message dated 10/31/98 2:16:07 PM Pacific Standard Time,fritzwiese@webtv.net writes: Fritz, Sinclair's Heddon book has an almost full-size drawing of a "classic- era"#50grip. (see page 106) The rodmaker's url has an 8'6" -2F #17 B.B. taper, it should be the same asthe #50 taper, but I'd like to see the #50 taper just in case it differs dueto being one of the higher end (hence better Q.C. spec's) hand-made rods. Don Burns from channer@hubwest.com Sat Oct 31 17:43:47 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A1175960120; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 16:45:27 MDT Subject: Re: Heddon #50 President At 05:10 PM 10/31/98 -0500, you wrote:Have taken in a restoration. Customer took a pen knife and took off thegrips then realised he was over his head. Remember the Heddon as aunique reverse half wells. Have Sinclairs restoration hand book butthat grip is not documeted. I don't have his Heddon book yet. Is itpossible that the grip is in that book?Years ago I always use Valspar spar varnish.Not available in my area. Don't even know if they are still inbusiness. What spar varnish do you use? Put the rod in my drying cabinet for a month, then cast it with #5 and #6 DT silks. This is one powerful rod! Complete melt down. Havestripped it and mic'ed the taper. Would be happy to list taper ifanybody is interested. All complete w/tube and original case. Even the label on the case isintact. Owner put his name and year 1936 on rod. Couldn't save thatbut the Heddon markings are OK. This is an 8 1/2 ft 3/2 rod with #2 ferrules. Classic shows as 5.20oz. Pls and Thx Fritz Wiese fritz;I am interested in the taper, even if no one else is. I have really likedthe few Heddons I have cast and I don't have a taper for a President. TIA John Channer from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Oct 31 19:41:19 1998 Subject: Re: Re: When is a Leonard not a Leonard Brett,I have to agree with you on the Duracane-I just cast one last weekendat asmall rodmakers' gathering and it cast better than any Orvis I've tried.Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Oct 31 19:41:33 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Drip tube John,I've been straightening after dipping. I'm using Helmsman spar and itseems to stand the temp. O.K.Regards,Hank. from CampblRods@aol.com Sat Oct 31 19:56:56 1998 Subject: Re: H.C. Does anyone know where I could purchase the Garrison video?Thanks,Steve CampbellCampbell Rod Co.Brewer,MaineCampblRods@aol.com from fritzwiese@webtv.net Sat Oct 31 21:30:36 1998 mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP idTAA29847; 112.iap.bryant.webtv.net(8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id TAA15646; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 19:30:33 -0800 ETAtAhQg6npd2wX6gO8daWOWQrkd6RuyvgIVAIVQAIlKI3n49vd4IbNOQspc2UGy Subject: Heddon #50 President Deluxe Taper I did forget a few things on my first post. Label on case is markedModel #50, President, and wt #2. Took me a while to find that wasHeddons designation for dry fly action.Strange but the snakes on the mid section are English pattern and thesnakes on both tips are Amer. pattern. If that was 1936 Heddon wasprobably just switching over. I took dimensions with my 1/2" Starret mic. w/pressure release.All measurement differentals are plus dimensions, and they were alwayson the spline where the guides are attached.TIP 1 Max Diff.065 .00055" .083 .000510" .096 .000015" .109 .00120" .128 .00125" .144 .00230" .160 .001 Mid Section Max Diff351/4" .178 .0000 Just below ferrule40" .192 .000545" .208 .00150" .222 .000555" .235 .00160" .249 .00265" .269 .002 Butt Max Diff70" .277 .00375" .291 .00280" .308 .00285" .323 .000590" .336 .00493 3/8 .425 .003 Under winding check Tip 2 Max DiffTip .080 .0015" .090 .00110" .110 .00115" .123 .00120" .136 .00225" .148 .00230" .165 .003 Client mentioned that this rod was his fathers and he was a localtournament caster. He used this rod for trout, dry fly accuracy and theskish fly event were they had to use a production rod.Workmanship is exceptional. Fritz Wiese from flyrod6@juno.com Sat Oct 31 22:46:06 1998 23:45:12 EST Subject: Re: Thread tensioners Fritz, I made mine with two large button washers, a spring and a bolt. I havealso went to the local sewing machine store and bought a thread tensionerthat was about $8 or 9. Works fine and has numbers on the top so I canreset to a specific tention if I need to. Mark Hallowell On Fri, 30 Oct 1998 08:50:32 -0800 "Robert Clarke" writes:Fritz, I made mine with a bolt, 2 washers, a spring and a wing nut. Maynot be as nice as one these other tensioners, but it works for me. Muchcheaper than $4.59, also had everything in town here. Best of luck, youwill really like the binder! Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Fritz Wiese Subject: Thread tensionersDate: Friday, October 30, 1998 8:27 AM Recall someone asking about where to get tensioners. Am just gettingthings together to build T. Smithwick binder and picked up several atJanns- Netcraft, Toledo.Regular - #290-600 $4.59Deluxe - #290-601 $5.79 Has plastic knob indexed 1 thru 1 adjustment.(wow) 1-800-638-2723 Usual waiver of non-interest. Fritz Wiese ___________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno athttp://www.juno.com/getjuno.htmlor call Juno at (800) 654- JUNO [654-5866] from Canerods@aol.com Sat Oct 31 23:00:40 1998 Subject: Re: Heddon #50 President Deluxe Taper In a message dated 10/31/98 7:32:29 PM Pacific Standard Time,fritzwiese@webtv.net writes: Fritz, Heddon labeled their rods by the butt ferrule size (3/4F,1F, 1-3/4F, 2F,2- 1/2F etc.) after the first few years of making fly rods. They alsoshowedline ratings in the old HDH or E style of nomenclature. Length of the rod + the ferrule size = the rod's action. A 9' 2F was the wetfly (~noodle) rod while a 2F in the 8'6" rod it is the std. trout taper. (dryfly) I don't know of any Heddons having English-style snake guides as shippedfromthe factory - some rod work must have been done to this rod at some timeinthe past. A Heddon model 50 would have been completely built by onecraftsmanand held to very exact standards - IMHO, mixed snakes would never havebeenallowed. Heddon was quite good at maintaining a decent product at alllevelsand for model #35 and above they went out of their way to maintainquality.Only 1/2 of one percent of all cane met the QC standards to become amodel#50. This rod was their best until the model #60 and model #1000 rodscamealong and this rod sold for $50 in 1936 - big money way back then. You can look in the model #50 spec chart in Sinclair's Heddon book anddetermine the correct wrap color/reelseat style by year - the 1936 #50(perSinclair) should have rev. 1/2 wells grip/a NS slide band or circassianwalnutspacer/plus brown wraps with dark brown tipping. (both ends of thewrap?) All IMHO, Don B. PS - Plus much credit to Michael Sinclair and his hard work too. PPS - Thanks for the taper too. from Canerods@aol.com Sat Oct 31 23:00:42 1998 Subject: Re: When is a Leonard not a Leonard In a message dated 10/31/98 1:09:57 PM Pacific Standard Time,srosenc@together.net writes: Steve, Only if Orvis could look it up in their records (by S/N) and say he built iton company time, IMHO. I think we can all come up with what if's - the point is, did a rod get builtat the factory or not. In not, then it is a rod of less than correct pedigree. Presently, Martin Keane is selling three Gillums that weren't 100%completewhen Pinky died. Martin had them completed. In my mind, they should notbesold as Gillums at all. But when a Gillum sells for $10,000 and a rod builttohis taper by a 3rd party sells for $1,000 then greed enters the picture, Iguess. I just purchased a Payne mid/tip and bag/tube - no butt section. I do planonhaving a new butt made, but I will NOT allow Payne's name to be applied tothenew butt. (except as built to his taper) I plan on fishing it, not unloadingit at a huge profit. Don Burns