from channer@hubwest.com Sun Nov 1 01:04:43 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A86CDF50124; Sun, 01 Nov 1998 00:06:20 MDT Subject: Re: Drip tube At 08:40 PM 10/31/98 EST, you wrote:John,I've been straightening after dipping. I'm using Helmsman spar and itseems to stand the temp. O.K.Regards,Hank. Hank;Starry eyed traditionalist that I am, I use Man-O-War spar varnish and itjust can't stand the heat. Helmsman is urethane and it is probably moreheat resistant. That or you are much better at it than I am , which is verylikely. I also have a very low luck factor. I find that Mr. Murphy is incomplete control of almost everything I do.John(Livin in the past)Channer from channer@hubwest.com Sun Nov 1 01:27:23 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id ADC056300FC; Sun, 01 Nov 1998 00:29:04 MDT Subject: re:Heddon #50 Fritz;Thanks for posting the taper. Another one for the "must build" list. John from Turbotrk@aol.com Sun Nov 1 01:44:52 1998 Subject: Re: Heddon #50 President Hey Freitz please post the taper. We can never have too many expeciallyforso powerful a rod as you described. stuart miller from fr.keulen@wxs.nl Sun Nov 1 04:07:19 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA57C7 Subject: Re: Heddon #50 President Deluxe Taper Fritz Wiese wrote: I did forget a few things on my first post. Label on case is markedModel #50, President, and wt #2. Took me a while to find that wasHeddons designation for dry fly action.Strange but the snakes on the mid section are English pattern and thesnakes on both tips are Amer. pattern. If that was 1936 Heddon wasprobably just switching over. I took dimensions with my 1/2" Starret mic. w/pressure release.All measurement differentals are plus dimensions, and they were alwayson the spline where the guides are attached.TIP 1 Max Diff.065 .00055" .083 .000510" .096 .000015" .109 .00120" .128 .00125" .144 .00230" .160 .001 Mid Section Max Diff351/4" .178 .0000 Just below ferrule40" .192 .000545" .208 .00150" .222 .000555" .235 .00160" .249 .00265" .269 .002 Butt Max Diff70" .277 .00375" .291 .00280" .308 .00285" .323 .000590" .336 .00493 3/8 .425 .003 Under winding check Tip 2 Max DiffTip .080 .0015" .090 .00110" .110 .00115" .123 .00120" .136 .00225" .148 .00230" .165 .003 Client mentioned that this rod was his fathers and he was a localtournament caster. He used this rod for trout, dry fly accuracy and theskish fly event were they had to use a production rod.Workmanship is exceptional. Fritz Wiese Fritz, Thanks a lot for the taper. How much should be extracted for the varnish?Could you describe how the rod feels? You said it was powerful, didn'tyou? Rens Oosthoek from fritzwiese@webtv.net Sun Nov 1 05:52:52 1998 105.iap.bryant.webtv.net v.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id 112.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) ETAuAhUAgPEt3rnuRfIS2zC4Bfh+ZREWPM0CFQCU1CxScQweAHHgOmjZ0pMU55axjA== Subject: Re: Heddon #50 President Deluxe Taper --WebTV-Mail-1843883417-211 Rens: The rod was stripped of varnish. Fritz Wiese --WebTV-Mail-1843883417-211 101.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/po.gso.24Feb98) mailsorter-101.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.graham.14Aug97) with wugate.wustl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) wugate.wustl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA12386 for; Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA57C7 for;Sun, 1 Nov 1998 11:06:45 +0100 Subject: Re: Heddon #50 President Deluxe Taper Fritz Wiese wrote: I did forget a few things on my first post. Label on case is markedModel #50, President, and wt #2. Took me a while to find that wasHeddons designation for dry fly action.Strange but the snakes on the mid section are English pattern and thesnakes on both tips are Amer. pattern. If that was 1936 Heddon wasprobably just switching over. I took dimensions with my 1/2" Starret mic. w/pressure release.All measurement differentals are plus dimensions, and they were alwayson the spline where the guides are attached.TIP 1 Max Diff.065 .00055" .083 .000510" .096 .000015" .109 .00120" .128 .00125" .144 .00230" .160 .001 Mid Section Max Diff351/4" .178 .0000 Just below ferrule40" .192 .000545" .208 .00150" .222 .000555" .235 .00160" .249 .00265" .269 .002 Butt Max Diff70" .277 .00375" .291 .00280" .308 .00285" .323 .000590" .336 .00493 3/8 .425 .003 Under winding check Tip 2 Max DiffTip .080 .0015" .090 .00110" .110 .00115" .123 .00120" .136 .00225" .148 .00230" .165 .003 Client mentioned that this rod was his fathers and he was a localtournament caster. He used this rod for trout, dry fly accuracy and theskish fly event were they had to use a production rod.Workmanship is exceptional. Fritz Wiese Fritz, Thanks a lot for the taper. How much should be extracted for the varnish?Could you describe how the rod feels? You said it was powerful, didn'tyou? Rens Oosthoek --WebTV-Mail-1843883417-211-- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Nov 1 08:03:31 1998 Subject: Leonard not a Leonard List,Awhile back I made mention that a guy had given me some rods and onewas aPayne. OK here is my question. Both tips are short and I am sending it toPayne Rod Co. out on the west coast. Now Payne has changed hands sincethisrod was made and when they build me new tips and refurbish the rod is itstill a Payne?Bret from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Nov 1 10:28:13 1998 Subject: When is a Pflugeger not a Pflugeger? Actually the problem goes much deeper and subtle than just whokeepsa name. What happens when a company changes their manafacturing and thatessentially changes the product itself and it aint what it used to be. SoReed(welcome back) do you first check and see that good : "made in U.S.A." onthereel before you buy one - to insure it is not one of those cheaper made offshoresomewhere ones?? Regards Chris from thorstad@primenet.com Sun Nov 1 11:18:23 1998 "Pthorstad"via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd015999; Sun Nov 1 10:18:141998 Subject: Re: First impresion Great job, Joe. I too will probably build the first bamboo rod I've ever fished with. Ihope to be where you are within a year or so. Sounds like this may be agood first rod Tim thorstad@primenet.com -----Original Message----- Subject: First impresion Hello all,Just got back from my first trip to the water with my newly created rod.Iended up working until about 2am this morning finishing it up, then wasoff at 6 to fish. I know there are some people out their looking for theirfirst taper so perhaps some comments may be helpful. The stick isWayne's7ft 4wt. (not the Sir D). I don't own a 4wt. rod so I went ahead and triedit out with a 6wt. WF line. I guess its also confession time: this was thefirst cane rod I had actually fished, having only lawn casted a handfullbefore this morning. I bum around our local Orvis shop and cast theplasticcrap (oops) that is reputed to be the some of the best available (not toget into a comparison of relative quality of plastic rods), so I have atleast a little notion of what a good rod is supposed to be.So my overall impression of my fist cane rod is that the thing should benamed "God's fishing pole." There is really no way one can comparefishingwith a cane rod to fishing plastic is my opinion. The plastic rod is deadand very predictable. The cane rod seems to have some sort of life of itsown. Fishing with this rod is more like having a conversation thancommanding something to do your will. For car people the plastic is tocaneas a corvette is to a BMW M3. The Corvette will go real fast as long asyoudon't tell it to do anything too complicated; the M3 seems to anticipateyour input and always leaves you feeling that you have yet to really tapits resources.To get specific, I was able to put out 50ft of 6wt line with this 4wt. rodwithout any real effort, and I could do so with accuracy and wisper-softpresentation. With a little effort and a double haul I could get out a good65-70ft--and I cast really poorly. The rod roll casted better than anyother I have cast. I could easily present a fly to individual fish at 30ft.Once a fish was on (and that happened pretty often this morning) the rodmade 12in 'bows into real monsters. Best of all, the rod seemed to havethepotential to do all these things even better than I was getting it to do. A4wt. line and some time and this thing will be incredible. Even now it isthe best rod I have fished.So thanks to Wayne, if you're out there, for creating and publishing thistaper. It's a gem. If you're looking for a taper for your first rod, Ipromise you'll be happy with this one. Best,Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from Turbotrk@aol.com Sun Nov 1 11:54:31 1998 Subject: Perfectionist at work To the list, I am in the process of transforming a room of my house into a "Rod MakingRoom" to build my first bamboo rod. I would like to start with the worktablethat I will be using. What does the list think should be required as far asheight, length, width if they had their druthers. I know this sounds like astupid question but, not having actually done a lot of planing, it seemstherewould be a correct position for perfect planing. Also, what should the topsurface be? I have heard that plexiglass would be good. I have aperfectionists attitude and do not want to start unless all is perfect. Second question: is there any reason not to use clear red oak for roughplaning forms? It is considerably cheaper then maple in my neck of thewoods. soon to be a rod builderstuart miller from dellc@nextdim.com Sun Nov 1 12:29:06 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A53A63780072; Sun, 01 Nov 1998 10:15:22 PDT Subject: Re: Perfectionist at work To me, the main consideration for work benches is to have the height atwaist level.Dell-----Original Message----- Subject: Perfectionist at work To the list, I am in the process of transforming a room of my house into a "RodMakingRoom" to build my first bamboo rod. I would like to start with the worktablethat I will be using. What does the list think should be required as farasheight, length, width if they had their druthers. I know this sounds likeastupid question but, not having actually done a lot of planing, it seemstherewould be a correct position for perfect planing. Also, what should thetopsurface be? I have heard that plexiglass would be good. I have aperfectionists attitude and do not want to start unless all is perfect. Second question: is there any reason not to use clear red oak for roughplaning forms? It is considerably cheaper then maple in my neck of thewoods. soon to be a rod builderstuart miller from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Nov 1 12:48:15 1998 boundary="_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862608=_=_=_"Subject: Re: Perfectionist at work --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862608=_=_=_ Stuart have no problems. I assume you are somewhere around average height (5' 10 - 6')the lowest I would go is 33" and highest 37" - If you just plane on it I would go with a higher height. My students benches are high and they found it comfortable to plane on. But an all around bench I wouldgo with 34" which I built mine at. It works very well for most things. As for top - go with good old plywood and make it thick 3/4".You want the bench to be sturdy. You can put on some laminate top iflooks are a concern. Plexiglass is not a good choice. I keep a sheetavail for sharpening but that is it. It will scratch and look funky after awhile. But if your oak is cheap and a perfectionist then just do an 4" butcher block Oak top with a couple of coats of marine spar varnish. And if youreally get going on the project then we can talk about wood inlays (a nicefly pattern in exotic woods and brass would add lots of class to theproject). Last thing - light - put the bench by a window - a big window and have lots of lights for working in the evening. This should be one of your prime concerns in your shop. Regards Chris On Sun, 1 Nov 1998 12:53:32 EST, Turbotrk@aol.com wrote: To the list, I am in the process of transforming a room of my house into a "RodMakingRoom" to build my first bamboo rod. I would like to start with the worktablethat I will be using. What does the list think should be required as far asheight, length, width if they had their druthers. I know this sounds like astupid question but, not having actually done a lot of planing, it seemstherewould be a correct position for perfect planing. Also, what should thetopsurface be? I have heard that plexiglass would be good. I have aperfectionists attitude and do not want to start unless all is perfect. Second question: is there any reason not to use clear red oak for roughplaning forms? It is considerably cheaper then maple in my neck of thewoods. soon to be a rod builderstuart miller Regards Chris --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862608=_=_=_ Stuart have no problems. I assume you are somewhere around average height (5' 10 - 6')the lowest I would go is 33" and highest 37" - If you just plane on it I would go with a higher height. My students benches are high and they found it comfortable to plane on. But an all around bench I wouldgo with 34" which I built mine at. It works very well for most things. As for top - go with good old plywood and make it thick 3/4".You want the bench to be sturdy. You can put on some laminate top iflooks are a concern. Plexiglass is not a good choice. I keep a sheetavail for sharpening but that is it. It will scratch and look funky after awhile. But if your oak is cheap and a perfectionist then just do an 4" butcher block Oak top with a couple of coats of marine spar varnish. And ifyoureally get going on the project then we can talk about wood inlays (anicefly pattern in exotic woods and brass would add lots of class to theproject). Last thing - light - put the bench by a window - a bigwindow and have lots of lights for working in the evening. This should be one ofyour prime concerns in your shop. Regards Chris On Sun, 1 Nov 1998 12:53:32 EST, Turbotrk@aol.com wrote: Making work table as like a there top perfect. rough the --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862608=_=_=_-- from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sun Nov 1 13:42:57 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP Subject: Re: Leonard not a Leonard In the eyes of the law, yes. In my eyes, no way -- I'd want the restoration current Leonard ownership and current Payne ownership as rodbuilderswhobought the right to put an "endorsement" on their rods. For instance, nowthat Gary Howells has retired, say that Chris Bogart (demo purposes only,hope neither Gary nor Chris mind) pays Gary $10k for the "right" to put theGary's name on the rods he makes. So you buy a "Gary Howells" rod fromChris...have you bought a Gary Howells rod? It doesn't matter if Chrismakes better or worse rods than Gary...the appeal of a Gary Howells rodwasdue to the skill and craftsmanship that Gary acquired over the years andputinto his rods. It is easier to discern with individuals rather thancompanies, to be sure. However, rod companies that requiredapprenticeshipsbefore changing hands (as Leonard did in the past, and Winston), allowtime skill (to maintain the company's reputation) before changing hands, thenthey deserve the right to put their "purchased reputation" on the rod. That's my 2 cents worth,(and I hope I haven't offended anyone who was mentioned for sake ofexample)George Bourke -----Original Message----- Subject: Leonard not a Leonard List,Awhile back I made mention that a guy had given me some rods and onewas aPayne. OK here is my question. Both tips are short and I am sending it toPayne Rod Co. out on the west coast. Now Payne has changed hands sincethisrod was made and when they build me new tips and refurbish the rod is itstill a Payne?Bret from jczimny@dol.net Sun Nov 1 13:54:02 1998 Subject: Re: Perfectionist at work Stuart,I have been contemplating the bench to end all benches for some time. Ithink two things a critical: height and weight.The top should be about 2 inches below elbow height and the bench shouldweight 300Lbs. The length should be long enought to accomodate yourlongestform. Width is up to you. Some thought should be given to portability. Red oak should be fine. Make two of them. They should be consideredexpendible.John Z-----Original Message----- Subject: Perfectionist at work To the list, I am in the process of transforming a room of my house into a "RodMakingRoom" to build my first bamboo rod. I would like to start with the worktablethat I will be using. What does the list think should be required as farasheight, length, width if they had their druthers. I know this sounds likeastupid question but, not having actually done a lot of planing, it seemstherewould be a correct position for perfect planing. Also, what should thetopsurface be? I have heard that plexiglass would be good. I have aperfectionists attitude and do not want to start unless all is perfect. Second question: is there any reason not to use clear red oak for roughplaning forms? It is considerably cheaper then maple in my neck of thewoods. soon to be a rod builderstuart miller from stpete@netten.net Sun Nov 1 15:17:28 1998 cedar.netten.net(8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA29768 for ;Sun, 1 Nov 1998 15:17:21 Subject: Re: Perfectionist at work Stuart, If you want a nice workbench that has a classic butcherblock look, isall wood (useful for protecting planes, chisels, and other woodworkingtools) and is heavy (not 300#), then here is what I did. Sorry folks,this has local information. Call Anderson-Tully Company on North Second Street. They makelaminatedtruck flooring out of the local red and white oak. You can talk themanager into selling some of their scrap or seconds. It's notcompletely cheap, but for $50-70 you should get enough to start a nicetable. Most likely, all they'll have is the 3/4" x 12" side boardavailable in 8' or 12' lengths. That's what I got. They use the heavystuff for the actual truck floors and you probably couldn't pick it upit's so heavy. Laminate the oak to a 3/4"x4'x8' plywood. I cut mine to 3' width forspace. The wider the more convenient though. I can access both sidesand have my binder set up on the opposite side of my bench. I laminatedthe oak to the plywood with wood glue, clamps, and wood dowels on about12" centers. Then I put 2x4 frame around the bottom sides and thecenter with dowels and glue. It is solid! Best yet, NO METAL! The bench sits on a frame of 2x4 with 4x4 legs. I have unglued dowelson the legs which fit into holes on the bottom of the bench, so I canmove it if I ever need to. Put a nice front vise and tail vise on thebench and you have a real woodworking bench. I use the tail vise mostoften, so I wish I had used a better one than I did. Drill 3/4" holesdown and across the bench opposite the vise dogs and cut off pieces of3/4" dowel for bench dogs. You can hold your forms or work pieceseasily with this set up. The best part is the bench looks great and you can put off actuallymaking a rod, since the perfectionist in you will find lots of things todo on your bench. Whatever you do, don't consider making a rod on anold yard sale table, or a plywood sheet on sawhorses. You will beembarrassed to take pictures for your book on rodmaking on those worksurfaces. I saw Digger's video where he was making a rod on his kitchen table. Ihave one rod under my belt in a year and a half of doing this. Joe Kallowas at the SRG in OCTOBER saying he was just getting started. He has arod already... but I bet I have a nicer table. Good Luck,Rick Crenshaw Turbotrk@aol.com wrote:I am in the process of transforming a room of my house into a "RodMakingRoom" to build my first bamboo rod. I would like to start with the worktable would be a correct position for perfect planing. Also, what should thetopsurface be? I have heard that plexiglass would be good. I have aperfectionists attitude and do not want to start unless all is perfect. stuart miller from Anachemrpo@aol.com Sun Nov 1 16:48:49 1998 Subject: (no) Perfectionist (but it) work(s) I have one those packaged "work bench in a box" from Grossmans or HomeDepot,that my father-in-law got for me a few years ago. It was my regularworkbenchin the basement...until now. While it is the right height and width, it had a work surface that wasneitherflat not level. I went out and bought a sheet of 3/4" birch plywood (yes, itlooks very nice, thank you very much) . I had them cut it to measure at thelumber yard, took it home measured for and drilled holes for 1" dowels tobeused as dogs, levelled it up and screwed the new top to the old bench- from-box. With the leftover pieces of plywood I made a section that can be placed ontopof the new surface (and against a set of digs) to elevate my forms abovetheregular surface, yet is removable... I have neither my first rod built nor a work-of-art workbench...but I *am*having fun, learning a bunch, and moving right along. The list is a BIG help (stating the obvious, I know).Thank you to all who have gone before, and are willing to share. Russ L. from rcurry@top.monad.net Sun Nov 1 17:09:04 1998 Subject: Re: When is a Pflugeger not a Pflugeger? cbogart wrote:So Reed(welcome back) do you first check and see that good : "made in U.S.A." onthereel before you buy one - to insure it is not one of those cheaper madeoff shoresomewhere ones??Chris,Of course! The difference in quality is exponential.This is more than just a matter of going offshore, the demand forlow-cost over quality is endemic to our culture. Take the F.E. Thomascompany, before the advent of FRP they manufactured with three grades,but the difference in the quality of the blanks was merely cosmetic.After FRP rods hit the streets the company reduced its quality controlin order to compete on price. Glue gaps and blemishes could then befound on the "better" grade. So sad...Best regards,Reed from jkallo@midwest.net Sun Nov 1 17:13:16 1998 Subject: Re: Perfectionist at work I saw Digger's video where he was making a rod on his kitchen table. Ihave one rod under my belt in a year and a half of doing this. Joe Kallowas at the SRG in OCTOBER saying he was just getting started. He has arod already... but I bet I have a nicer table. I wasn't going to say anything, but this thread was making me feel a littleguilty. My shop table is so pathetic that I fear the time when someonewants to come see where I make rods. It was in the garage area when Ibought the house. The top is made of four seperate pieces of plywoodwhichhave, over the century and ahalf since the house was built, gone their ownway in the world. The top is so crooked I have to put something under themiddle of my planning form as it sits a good inch and half off the table inthe center. I actually kinda like the effect of laying my finished rod onthis bench when it is (and it still is) covered with the debris from theprocess--sandpaper shreds, zillions of shavings, broken binding string etc.Its kinda like the lotus flower rising from the swamp. To each his own I suppose. (Rick, I'm gonna try to get down there for cane before Thanksgiving. Willwrite soon to establish a time) Best,Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from jaquin@netsync.net Sun Nov 1 17:56:44 1998 quartz.netsync.net (8.8.5/8.6.12)with SMTP id SAA05176 for ; Sun, 1 Nov1998 18:56:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Heddon #50 President Fritz Wiese wrote: Have taken in a restoration. Customer took a pen knife and took off thegrips then realised he was over his head. Remember the Heddon as aunique reverse half wells. Have Sinclairs restoration hand book butthat grip is not documeted. I don't have his Heddon book yet. Is itpossible that the grip is in that book?Years ago I always use Valspar spar varnish.Not available in my area. Don't even know if they are still inbusiness. What spar varnish do you use? Put the rod in my drying cabinet for a month, then cast it with #5 and #6 DT silks. This is one powerful rod! Complete melt down. Havestripped it and mic'ed the taper. Would be happy to list taper ifanybody is interested. All complete w/tube and original case. Even the label on the case isintact. Owner put his name and year 1936 on rod. Couldn't save thatbut the Heddon markings are OK. This is an 8 1/2 ft 3/2 rod with #2 ferrules. Classic shows as 5.20oz. Pls and Thx Fritz WieseHi Fritz What do you use to strip the varnish of an old rod? How didyou save the Heddon markings? Have a H-I Tonka Queen to do. Looking forsome time saving ideas! thanks, jerry from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Nov 1 18:02:52 1998 Mon, 2 Nov 1998 08:02:27 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: (WAS) Perfectionist, now workbench Anybody looking for workbench ideas with the view to perfection should look at a book called "The Workbench Book". It is extremly good. running the whole length with an end and tail vise.I don't think you need a wide bench as it only encourages clutter but the length is good for forms. Put storage under the bench as the tools add weight.Height wise, I like a bench height so it is level with my thumbs sticking out when my arms are in a relaxed state by my sides.Any higher and it's dif to get your shoulder into planing, you don't need this for power in the case of planing strips but it saves fatigue. A higher bench is easier on your back but I think it's hard on your neck and shoulders.The bench top is laminated timber with a boiled linseed oil finish. When the finish is dry you can write directly on the bench with pencil and sand it back without any damage. This saves paper laying about and means if the stations are clearly marked you can jot the station dimensions directly on the bench.The oil finish also allows for accurate bench top truing as all you do is plane the top and look for differences in the oiled finish and plane till it's all even, then re-oil.Do this ever year. I don't know red oak's working properties but if it's like white oak I'd think it'd be ok. Tony On Sun, 1 Nov 1998 Anachemrpo@aol.com wrote: I have one those packaged "work bench in a box" from Grossmans or HomeDepot,that my father-in-law got for me a few years ago. It was my regularworkbenchin the basement...until now. While it is the right height and width, it had a work surface that wasneitherflat not level. I went out and bought a sheet of 3/4" birch plywood (yes,itlooks very nice, thank you very much) . I had them cut it to measure atthelumber yard, took it home measured for and drilled holes for 1" dowelsto beused as dogs, levelled it up and screwed the new top to the old bench-from-box. With the leftover pieces of plywood I made a section that can be placedon topof the new surface (and against a set of digs) to elevate my forms abovetheregular surface, yet is removable... I have neither my first rod built nor a work-of-art workbench...but I*am*having fun, learning a bunch, and moving right along. The list is a BIG help (stating the obvious, I know).Thank you to all who have gone before, and are willing to share. Russ L. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Nov 1 18:04:32 1998 Mon, 2 Nov 1998 08:04:16 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Perfectionist at work On Sun, 1 Nov 1998, Joseph S.Kallo wrote: I wasn't going to say anything, but this thread was making me feel alittleguilty. My shop table is so pathetic that I fear the time when someonewants to come see where I make rods. It was in the garage area when Ibought the house. The top is made of four seperate pieces of plywoodwhichhave, over the century and ahalf since the house was built, gone theirownway in the world. The top is so crooked I have to put something under themiddle of my planning form as it sits a good inch and half off the tableinthe center. I actually kinda like the effect of laying my finished rod onthis bench when it is (and it still is) covered with the debris from theprocess--sandpaper shreds, zillions of shavings, broken binding stringetc.Its kinda like the lotus flower rising from the swamp. To each his own I suppose. It all works if you're comfortable with it. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from chris@artistree.com Sun Nov 1 18:15:41 1998 QAA06535 Subject: Re: Heddon #50 President Jerry, If I may. I just stripped an H&I. Saved label & decal by coating it witha liberal layer of Spar Varnish (Pratt & Lambert). After dry (2-daysmaybe more) applied masking tape (auto paint quality) over labels toprotect them from stripper. Then applied 3-M's Safest Stripper on theold varnish coat (try and keep away from masked areas). Takes 1/2 to 1hr to work. Try not to let the stripper dry out (keep away from heat)and it will be easier to remove (IMHO). Think this procedure is what M.Sinclair recommends, can't remember exactly, but it works for me.-- Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com Fritz WieseHi Fritz What do you use to strip the varnish of an old rod? How didyou save the Heddon markings? Have a H-I Tonka Queen to do. Looking forsome time saving ideas! thanks, jerry from fritzwiese@webtv.net Sun Nov 1 18:29:01 1998 105.iap.bryant.webtv.net v.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id 112.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) ETAtAhRbpzdUtMzSk5Wfm7zQP20V6hJi3QIVAI5AHRTMyOGSktmIR0dCqUqJgBeL Subject: Re: Heddon #50 President Last few years I have been using 3M Safe Strip recommended by Sinclairin his fine book on restoration. Cleaning off old varnish with gray 3Mpads (fine grit). I do this on a sheet of plate glass so I don't roundover the edges. Then back in the drying cabinet. I made a mahogoneycabinet with a 60 watt bulb. Hooks to hang nine sections at one time,Acrylic door so I can look in the cabinet. The owner had put his nameon the outer finish w/india ink and coated over it with spar. Bad meltdown, so I couldn't save that but the factory markings were deeper. Iused an old trick that my father taught me. Scraped the outer layerwith a shard of broken glass. After refinishing it may still beevident, but minimal. Careful to make an even border. Fritz Wiese from tball@mail.portup.com Sun Nov 1 18:52:02 1998 Subject: PHY para14 Does anyone out their in cyberland have the taper for the PHY para 14.Tom in Trout Lake from MasjC1@aol.com Sun Nov 1 19:01:10 1998 Subject: Re: Perfectionist at work Stuart, I built my rough planing forms from red oak. No problems. Just followedtheinstructions in Wayne's book. Mark Cole from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sun Nov 1 19:30:06 1998 (modemcable38.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: Really really big fish BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_ppvK7MspnezyCvTDvUHiCQ)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_ppvK7MspnezyCvTDvUHiCQ) After years of fishing for normal size trout using small flies, I didsomething totally different today. I hired a guide and fished a massiveriver containing really big fish: rainbows and browns in the 5 to 10 lbrange, steelhead of 15 lbs, chinook running..., well you get the picture. Wefished huge streamers 4 inches long. Most casts were 40 to 50 ft. I own nobamboo rod up to this task so used a G. Loomis GL3 9 ft. 7 wt, too fast arod for my liking. tiring to cast. I'd like to build a cane rod for this situation. Any suggestions for a taperI might try? It would need to be powerful, yet light enough for thehundredsof casts associated with this type of fishing. I'm thinking possibly a 6 wt.Also, would building such a rod hollow be the way to go? Should I consideraparabolic rod or is a faster action my only choice? Thanks in advance, Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca PS. My guide caught an 18 -inch rainbow. Just a baby he said. I got one hitthat almost yanked the rod from my hands. --Boundary_(ID_ppvK7MspnezyCvTDvUHiCQ) years of fishing for normal size trout using small flies, I did = totally different today. I hired a guide and fished a massive river = really big fish: rainbows and browns in the 5 to 10 lb range, steelhead = lbs, chinook running..., well you get the picture. We fished huge = inches long. Most casts were 40 to 50 ft. I own no bamboo rod up to this = cast. like to build a cane rod for this situation. Any suggestions for a taper = try? It would need to be powerful, yet light enough for the hundreds of = associated with this type of fishing. I'm thinking possibly a 6 wt. = building such a rod hollow be the way to go? Should I consider a = or is a faster action my only choice? in advance, Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca guide caught an 18 -inch rainbow. Just a baby he said. I got one hit = yanked the rod from my hands. --Boundary_(ID_ppvK7MspnezyCvTDvUHiCQ)-- from caneboy@xtn.net Sun Nov 1 19:47:43 1998 Subject: Re: Really really big fish Yahoo Big Fish! Boo Hoo plastic rods! Richard Nantel wrote: After years of fishing for normal size trout using small flies, I didsomething totally different today. I hired a guide and fished amassive river containing really big fish: rainbows and browns in the 5to 10 lb range, steelhead of 15 lbs, chinook running..., well you getthe picture. We fished huge streamers 4 inches long. Most casts were40 to 50 ft. I own no bamboo rod up to this task so used a G. LoomisGL3 9 ft. 7 wt, too fast a rod for my liking. tiring to cast. I'd like to build a cane rod for this situation. Any suggestions for ataper I might try? It would need to be powerful, yet light enough forthe hundreds of casts associated with this type of fishing. I'mthinking possibly a 6 wt. Also, would building such a rod hollow bethe way to go? Should I consider a parabolic rod or is a faster actionmy only choice? Thanks in advance, Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca PS. My guide caught an 18 -inch rainbow. Just a baby he said. I gotone hit that almost yanked the rod from my hands. from channer@hubwest.com Sun Nov 1 21:26:46 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A6D6586012E; Sun, 01 Nov 1998 20:28:22 MDT Subject: Re: When is a Pflugeger not a Pflugeger? At 06:11 PM 11/1/98 -0500, you wrote:cbogart wrote:So Reed(welcome back) do you first check and see that good : "made in U.S.A."on thereel before you buy one - to insure it is not one of those cheaper madeoff shoresomewhere ones??Chris,Of course! The difference in quality is exponential.This is more than just a matter of going offshore, the demand forlow-cost over quality is endemic to our culture. Take the F.E. Thomascompany, before the advent of FRP they manufactured with three grades,but the difference in the quality of the blanks was merely cosmetic.After FRP rods hit the streets the company reduced its quality controlin order to compete on price. Glue gaps and blemishes could then befound on the "better" grade. So sad...Best regards,Reed Reed;What's FRP????John from briansr@point-net.com Sun Nov 1 21:46:45 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Really really big fish boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01BE05E9.728091E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BE05E9.728091E0 Hi RichardThink Spey!!-----Original Message-----From: Richard Nantel Date: 1 novembre, 1998 20:34Subject: Really really big fish After years of fishing for normal size trout using small flies, I =did something totally different today. I hired a guide and fished a =massive river containing really big fish: rainbows and browns in the 5 =to 10 lb range, steelhead of 15 lbs, chinook running..., well you get =the picture. We fished huge streamers 4 inches long. Most casts were 40 =to 50 ft. I own no bamboo rod up to this task so used a G. Loomis GL3 9 = I'd like to build a cane rod for this situation. Any suggestions for =a taper I might try? It would need to be powerful, yet light enough for =the hundreds of casts associated with this type of fishing. I'm thinking =possibly a 6 wt. Also, would building such a rod hollow be the way to =go? Should I consider a parabolic rod or is a faster action my only =choice? Thanks in advance, Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca PS. My guide caught an 18 -inch rainbow. Just a baby he said. I got =one hit that almost yanked the rod from my hands. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BE05E9.728091E0 Hi RichardThink Spey!! -----Original = Rodmakers (E-mail) <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= fish After years of fishing for normal size trout using small = something totally different today. I hired a guide and fished a = river containing really big fish: rainbows and browns in the 5 to 10 = range, steelhead of 15 lbs, chinook running..., well you get the = fished huge streamers 4 inches long. Most casts were 40 to 50 ft. I = fast a rod for my liking. tiring to cast. I'd like to build a cane rod for this situation. Any = a taper I might try? It would need to be powerful, yet light enough = hundreds of casts associated with this type of fishing. I'm thinking = possibly a 6 wt. Also, would building such a rod hollow be the way = choice? Thanks in advance, Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca PS. My guide caught an 18 -inch rainbow. Just a baby he = one hit that almost yanked the rod from my =hands. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BE05E9.728091E0-- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Nov 1 21:46:46 1998 Mon, 2 Nov 1998 11:46:20 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Really really big fish On Sun, 1 Nov 1998, Richard Nantel wrote: After years of fishing for normal size trout using small flies, I didsomething totally different today. I hired a guide and fished a massiveriver containing really big fish: rainbows and browns in the 5 to 10 lbrange, steelhead of 15 lbs, chinook running..., well you get the picture.Wefished huge streamers 4 inches long. Most casts were 40 to 50 ft. I ownnobamboo rod up to this task so used a G. Loomis GL3 9 ft. 7 wt, too fast arod for my liking. tiring to cast. I'd like to build a cane rod for this situation. Any suggestions for a taperI might try? It would need to be powerful, yet light enough for thehundredsof casts associated with this type of fishing. I'm thinking possibly a 6wt.Also, would building such a rod hollow be the way to go? Should Iconsider aparabolic rod or is a faster action my only choice? Thanks in advance, Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca PS. My guide caught an 18 -inch rainbow. Just a baby he said. I got one hitthat almost yanked the rod from my hands. Sounds like you need a PHY Texas General. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Sun Nov 1 22:37:43 1998 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id RAA19497 for ;Mon, 2 Nov 1998 17:37:40+1300 Subject: resorcinal glue I had a little trouble sending this so it is resent in a retun form . Several people asked me if I could send them the technical information onResorcinal glue together with the drying times etc. I picked up the specsheets today and have set out below a summary of these in so far as itmayaffect rodmakers . If anyone would like a set of the spec sheets they canlet me know off line and I can fax them a copy . Resorcinal types . There are two types of glue , know in nz as number 15andnumber 25 . Number 15 is a higher strength then 25 but consideribly moreexpensive . I suspect that 25 is the type commonly purchased fromhardwareshops. Most of the characteristics are similar for both types although 15iseasier to use at lower temperatures . ( ie less then 10 degees C. ) Thecharacteristics set out below are common for both types unless statedotherwise. Some features :- water proof and boil proof, mild gap filling bond - storage life 12 months at 20 C, if stored at less then 20C lessorstorage life may be expected - hardener has the same storage life Directions for use :- mixing by volume 2 parts resorcinal to one part hardener - mixing by weight 4 parts resorcinal to one part hardener - wood moisture content 12 - 16% . ( the technical people tell methat they sometimes get down to 10% but below that there can be majorproblems as the timber " sucks" the glue into the timber and there isdifficulty in leaving another on the surface of the timber to get a goodbind. This may not be such a problem on hardwood (actually grass) such asbamboo)-The NZ spec says the timber should not be sanded but planned , andwithin 24 hours of the glueing . ( I think this is more to do with thetendancy of planks of timber to cup over tie after they have been planned) Pot life of mixed adhesive- after mixing it remains liquid for a limited period after which itgels and becomes unusable. Pot life is defined as two thirds of time forglue mix to gel and is the estimated working life of the glue mix. Pot lifeis dependant on temperature . glue mix temp. 10C 15C 20C 25C 30CPot life 8-11 hrs 4.5-6hr 2.5-3.5hr 1.25-1.75hr .75-1 hr Glue spread- around 350g/m2 if using a double glue line . In practise thismeans that that after pressure a small and regular amount of "squeezeout"is formed. Assembly time This is the time from application of the glue until pressure is applied . Isthe total of "open" assembly time when the glue line is exposed to air and"closed" assembly time when the joint is closed but no pressure isapplied.This is temperature dependant . glue line temp. 15C 20C 25Cmaxm assembly time 60 mins 45 mins 30 mins BUT a minimium assembly time of 10 minutes is recommended , but withopenassembly being 5 minutes maximium . FURTHER " a period of at least 30minutes assembly time is beneficial when glueing dense species.( I guessthis means spread the glue on the strips , wait 2-3 minutes , close thestrips up and wait for up to another 25 minutes before binding). Theoperators of the glueing jigs tell me that it forms a sort of shiney finishif left in open assembly too long and if this is formed then it will notbind , it must have a wet look and final pressure must be applied whiletheglue is wet.) Pressure -For hardwoods 1000 kpa to 1400 kpa . ( I will leave this for you towork out ) Room temperature cure This is NOT full strength cure but adequate for normal handling ( whateverthat means in a rodmaking context)This is temperature dependant as follows Glue line temp 15C 20C 25C 30CMinimium press time 12 hours 7 hours 4 hours 2 hours Conditioning of joints Full strength is not obtained during the pressure period and a number ofdays further curing are required to obtain full strength . This is 5-8 daysat 20C. Time will also be dependant on wood density and mass. One study on pine ( softwood ) showed the following temperature 3500 kpa maximium strengthcured at shear strength 10C 8 days not reached15C 1 day 6 days 20C 16 hours 4 days25C 10 hours 2 days Well, I trust this is enough to terrify everyone in relation to usingresorcinol glue . Actually it means do not leave the strips with glue onthem open to the air for very long , but give the glue time to penetratetheclosed up bamboo strips before you apply binding pressure . It also meansitis not bad to glue in a cold work shop but be sure to put the glued upstrips in some form of warm box after binding for a few days . Alsorememberthat this is a very strong glue and , provided it has not had too long anopen assembly time , the strength of this glue is high even if not at fullstrength. And finally , the spec sheets for other glues such as melemine are equallyas scary . regards Iank from saweiss@flash.net Sun Nov 1 23:29:30 1998 Subject: Re: PHY para14 Does anyone out their in cyberland have the taper for the PHY para 14.Tom in Trout Lake Tom,The following is from the archives: Subject: Para 14 TaperTo all:Have had several requests for this taper so here it is.7' 9" 5 wt. Numbersare without varnish every 5 inches. Cutoff at 46 1/2 ".072 .088 .100 .117 .133 .150 .167 .183 .200 .210 .221 .231 .240.248 .257 .265 .273 .285 .285 .285Works very nice with a swelled butt also.Great rod.George from saweiss@flash.net Sun Nov 1 23:57:25 1998 Subject: Re: Perfectionist at work : Perfectionist at work To the list, I am in the process of transforming a room of my house into a "RodMaking Stuart,Height will depend on your comfort zone. I went around for a whilepretending to plane at various benches and tables until I found mypreference. The top should be at least 6' long and if you have the space,you should be able to work on both sides. I have a 6' stick-on rule on thetop of one side, and do my layouts and staggering there. Make the top thickenough to be heavy. Mine is butcher block birch,1 3/4" thick.A woodworking vise is pretty handy and I would say almost essential.I have two steel pedestal/drawer units supporting the top and the spacebetween them is a perfect place to park my shop-vac.If you have room, another bench at sit-down height is great forrod-wrapping, finishing, and flytying. Mine is a nice and thick (and flat)Formica covered table top, also supported by steel drawer towers, allsurplus from local sources. Check with cabinet shops for tops that theyhaveas seconds or as take-outs from renovations.Don't spare on bench vises. At least one woodworking with at least 7"wood-lined jaw and one machinist's type with about 4" jaws.Keep on the lookout for a used drafting chair that is nice and high and acomfortable used desk chair for the sit-down work.Steve Weiss from Rodsofcane@aol.com Mon Nov 2 04:50:20 1998 Subject: Re: Really really big fish First off, what are you doing letting your guide fish! Guides are suppose toguide, not fish.What about a Dickerson - 8014 Guide My two centsKent K. Anderson from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Mon Nov 2 06:38:28 1998 HAA04759 Subject: RE: H.Carmichael His father was the guy! Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, October 30, 1998 9:31 PM Subject: H.Carmichael Would anyone know if Hoagy Carmicheal the rodmaker was themusician orH.C.jrTIA Brian Sturrock from saltwein@swbell.net Mon Nov 2 06:57:45 1998 GAA02093 Subject: Workbench My work bench used to belong to the USN. There is a metal tag at theend of it that calls this out. I bought it at an auction that was,luckily, about a mile from my house. It belonged to a guy who had beena carpenter for 60 years. There were about ten of us who loaded it intothe back of my 3/4 ton pickup. Three of us unloaded it into mygarage/basement by sliding-blocking-levering it to the floor. We thenlevered and blocked it onto its legs, as it was on its top, nce we hadit on its legs it was fairly simple to slide it into position. It has been there 10 years and hasn't moved. It is 3'x12' and made fromsolid maple 2bys with an oak top. I had to cover the top because it hadtaken so much abuse over the years. It probably weighs over 700 poundsand it does not move. To my mind the three essentials of a bench are-theright height, level top, solid. The bench is about hip height but for cane work I have two 2x6-8' on topof it that I work off of. Oh, by the way, the bench had two vises on itwhen I bought it for $45. I still have the wood working vise, but Itraded the machinist vise for a new Forrester II saw blade. One of thefew good deals I didn't pass up over the years. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from Fallcreek9@aol.com Mon Nov 2 07:11:36 1998 Subject: Re: Perfectionist at work In a message dated 11/1/98 11:58:10 AM Central Standard Time,Turbotrk@aol.comwrites: Stuart: A couple of thoughts: If you have room, longer is better. Byhappenstance, my bench is 2-feet x ten-feet and I am very happy to havetheroom. Often for layout of a rod or strips or whatever, the extra lenght isquite useable. Also, you might consider a wood of some kind, includingplywood, which is what I used (2 layers of 1/2"). One is always cutting orscribing somthing, and the yield of wood is necessary, for me anyway. Justremember to use finishing nails and sink them about 3/16" so blade tipsdo notencounter them. Welcome to the wonderful world of bamboo rod making. Do not hesitate toaskany question - we have all been there. Best Regards,Richard Tyree from robrown@wt.net Mon Nov 2 07:29:07 1998 Subject: test mac-creator="4D4F5353" TEST from robrown@wt.net Mon Nov 2 07:31:01 1998 Subject: Test mac-creator="4D4F5353" Test from jaquin@netsync.net Mon Nov 2 07:41:39 1998 quartz.netsync.net (8.8.5/8.6.12)with SMTP id IAA18100 for ; Mon, 2 Nov1998 08:41:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Really really big fish Richard Nantel wrote: After years of fishing for normal size trout using small flies, I didsomething totally different today. I hired a guide and fished amassive river containing really big fish: rainbows and browns in the 5to 10 lb range, steelhead of 15 lbs, chinook running..., well you getthe picture. We fished huge streamers 4 inches long. Most casts were40 to 50 ft. I own no bamboo rod up to this task so used a G. LoomisGL3 9 ft. 7 wt, too fast a rod for my liking. tiring to cast. I'd like to build a cane rod for this situation. Any suggestions for ataper I might try? It would need to be powerful, yet light enough forthe hundreds of casts associated with this type of fishing. I'mthinking possibly a 6 wt. Also, would building such a rod hollow bethe way to go? Should I consider a parabolic rod or is a faster actionmy only choice? Thanks in advance, Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca PS. My guide caught an 18 -inch rainbow. Just a baby he said. I gotone hit that almost yanked the rod from my hands. I was fishing Cattaraugus Creek in western New York State yesterday. Metsevral canadians, who were fishing "noodle rods" large single actionreels and light monfilament. Mostly bait fishing. They certainly hadgood technique on the drift fishing, and caught the majority of thefish. Does anyone have a Noodle rod taper for a 12 to 15 foot rod? Ineed to into this game. from destinycon@mindspring.com Mon Nov 2 08:12:27 1998 Subject: Re: Perfectionist at work At 12:53 PM 11/1/98 EST, you wrote:What does the list think should be required as far asheight, length, width if they had their druthers. stuart miller Stuart,Keep in mind the height of the other tools in your shop. I have all mytools (table saw, jointer, shaper, etc.) at the same height (34"- I'm 5'10"and this is comfortable for me). My shop is not large enough for any of mylarger tools to remain stationary so keeping everything at the same heightallows me to use my bench as an out feed table when needed. Gary H. from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Mon Nov 2 08:48:58 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id IAA24845 for; Mon, 2 (8.8.4/8.6.8) with SMTP idIAA17939 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 08:48:46 - Subject: Re: (WAS) Perfectionist, now workbench My basement is such a cluttered mess I could die down there and the family wouldn't find me for months. I've got a workbench I use for planing, but every extra inch is so covered with unfinished projects that coming up with a big, flat space is impossible. So I found an old ironing board at a resale shop and screwed on a plywood top about 5ft by 20in. Its long enough for jobs like splicing nodeless strips and glueup, etc. And the height is adjustable, it can be moved about, and it folds up and out of the way when not in use. Makes an excellent extra space for rodmaking, saving the table saw top for mixing paint etc.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from ljrp@penn.com Mon Nov 2 09:32:33 1998 Subject: Re: (WAS) Perfectionist, now workbench My kind of guy!!!!!!! Frank Stetzer wrote: My basement is such a cluttered mess I could die down there and thefamily wouldn't find me for months. I've got a workbench I use forplaning, but every extra inch is so covered with unfinished projectsthat coming up with a big, flat space is impossible. So I found anold ironing board at a resale shop and screwed on a plywood top about5ft by 20in. Its long enough for jobs like splicing nodeless stripsand glueup, etc. And the height is adjustable, it can be moved about,and it folds up and out of the way when not in use. Makes an excellentextra space for rodmaking, saving the table saw top for mixing paint etc.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from Nodewrrior@aol.com Mon Nov 2 09:38:15 1998 Subject: Re:Handmill order Dear Mr. Morgan,I hope I'm not being too annoying, but I was wonderring what the ETA wasonthe handmill I back ordered last summer. Somewhere in my pile of papers(wejust moved!) I have a receipt from the down payment. I can find it should Ineed to do so. Also, note that I have a new address.I'm just getting excited to make the next step in rod production. Sincerely, Robert Hoffhines2600 Thornwood aveWilmette, IL 60091(847)853-1662 from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon Nov 2 10:04:30 1998 Subject: Murphy I also have a very low luck factor. I find that Mr. Murphy is incomplete control of almost everything I do.John(Livin in the past)Channer Must be a relative of the same Murphy that lurks in the corners of myshop!!J. Snider. from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Mon Nov 2 10:21:46 1998 Subject: Re: Perfectionist at work At 12:53 01/11/98 EST, you wrote:To the list, I am in the process of transforming a room of my house into a "RodMakingRoom" to build my first bamboo rod. I would like to start with the worktablethat I will be using. What does the list think should be required as far asheight, length, width if they had their druthers. I know this sounds like astupid question but, not having actually done a lot of planing, it seemstherewould be a correct position for perfect planing. Also, what should thetopsurface be? I have heard that plexiglass would be good. I have aperfectionists attitude and do not want to start unless all is perfect. Second question: is there any reason not to use clear red oak for roughplaning forms? It is considerably cheaper then maple in my neck of thewoods. soon to be a rod builderstuart miller Stuart, My bench where I plane is 14' long and is @ the height that is forcomfortable planning. The reason the bench is so long is that Iincorporated my cane storage underneath the bench. The storage holdsabout80 culms. Under the culms are stored all the long things you'll need likeforms, run on/off rails for the binder and the like. One end is supportedwith a drawer unit. The bench has 2 woodworkers vises spotted along it.Thetop is 2*4 on edge laminated construction overlayed by 1/4" masonite thatwas trimmed to the bench size. Masonite was chosen as it is somewhatsoft,glue peels off easy and the top costs little to replace. The bench is lagbolted to the walls and floor. You could butcher a moose on it. The benchis 2' wide so that the peg board in front of it is easily accessible. Thepeg board holds most the stuff you'll need for rod making. The bench thatattaches to the planning bench forming an "L" shape is 8' long and holdsthe lathe, grinder & 4" machinist vise. It also has drawer units underneath have two florescent ballasts each holding 2 bulbs on the 14'er and twoballasts each holding 1 bulb on the 8'er. And I wish I had more light onthe 8'er. And isn't this fun. And just wait till you get to the splitting part. regards, Don from stpete@netten.net Mon Nov 2 10:24:54 1998 cedar.netten.net(8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA02988 for ;Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:24:37 Subject: Re: (WAS) Perfectionist, now workbench Now THIS is an excellent idea! Rick Crenshaw Frank Stetzer wrote: My basement is such a cluttered mess I could die down there and thefamily wouldn't find me for months. I've got a workbench I use forplaning, but every extra inch is so covered with unfinished projectsthat coming up with a big, flat space is impossible. So I found anold ironing board at a resale shop and screwed on a plywood top about5ft by 20in. Its long enough for jobs like splicing nodeless stripsand glueup, etc. And the height is adjustable, it can be moved about,and it folds up and out of the way when not in use. Makes an excellentextra space for rodmaking, saving the table saw top for mixing paint etc.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from dellc@nextdim.com Mon Nov 2 10:26:14 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id AA0B5E9011C; Mon, 02 Nov 1998 08:12:59 PDT Subject: Re: (WAS) Perfectionist, now workbench Frank, we need to compare work areas, I never thought I would ever hearanyone admit to having a basement work shop as cluttered as mine.Dell Coppock-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: (WAS) Perfectionist, now workbench My basement is such a cluttered mess I could die down there and thefamily wouldn't find me for months. I've got a workbench I use forplaning, but every extra inch is so covered with unfinished projectsthat coming up with a big, flat space is impossible. So I found anold ironing board at a resale shop and screwed on a plywood top about5ft by 20in. Its long enough for jobs like splicing nodeless stripsand glueup, etc. And the height is adjustable, it can be moved about,and it folds up and out of the way when not in use. Makes an excellentextra space for rodmaking, saving the table saw top for mixing paint etc.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from FlyTyr@southshore.com Mon Nov 2 11:20:40 1998 (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP 11:21:56 -0600 Subject: Sowbug Roundup The North Arkansas Flyfishers will be holding The Sow Bug Roundup 99(Fly fishing show) in Ht. Home, Ar. on March 19-20, 1999. We would beinterested in having a Bamboo Rod demo at the show. If there is anyoneor a group that would like to put on a program or demonstrate contactme off list. There will be no pay other than a good meal on Friday nightand the friendship of the club.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from briansr@point-net.com Mon Nov 2 11:44:32 1998 0000 Subject: forms question Hi allI'm about ready to get 3 planing forms done . before the machinist startsi would like to know if the interior or touching surfaces have to be milledor can they be merely de-burred. I'm asking this question because I don'tthey will actually ever touch except possibly at one end for somee tinyrod.BTW using CRS stockTIA Brian Sturrock from tfinger@services.state.mo.us Mon Nov 2 12:20:32 1998 Subject: Re: When is a Leonard not a Leonard Bret wrote: I have to disagree with you on an orvis battenkill or a madison being abetterrod than a Leonard Duracane. I own both and the Leonard will thro a muchbetter line than the orvis any day. As a matter of fact I would sell theorvis rods in a heart beat and never let the Leonard go. Bret Hi, Bret, If you really want to sell those rods cheap, please contact me :-))! Seriously, I guess this is what makes all this so interesting; our opinions are undoubtedly formed by individual casting styles, certain models in a given rodmaker's offerings, and quite likely individual rods within each model. My opinions are based on several Battenkills, Madisons, and 99's that I own and fish; they range from 6-1/2' to 8-1/2' and are all 30-40 years old. (I have no idea what Orvis' newer rods are like). I also really like my early -70's vintage Leonard 38 and 39H. These Orvis and "true" Leonard rods just seem to fish better somewhat slower, progressive tapers; perhaps this preference plays a role as well. Just out of curiousity, does anyone know for sure if:1) the Duracanes were truly built on Sharpes' blanks; and2) if so, were the tapers designed and specified by Leonard or were they standard Sharpes models? Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Mon Nov 2 12:45:20 1998 Subject: Re: (WAS) Perfectionist, now workbench Frank,Sounds like my garage. I have a two car garage that in 22 yrs has onlyseen a car for two weeks at most. For several years, part of it was afifth bedroom. That has been torn out but the closet remains. I have a work bench that my dad built, three storage cabinets, one shelfunit, a lathe in disassembly being rebuilt, a table saw, joiner, drillpress, parts washer, several tables and a lot of junk setting around.The top of my workbench is stacked with about a foot of stuff formvarious projects. But just let anybody touch anything anywhere in thegarage and I'll know it immediately. I have a sign that I lay on top ofeverything that says "Don't straighten out this mess, you'll screw up mysystem" My wife says that every time she opens the garage door, people flock outin front thinking there is a Garage Sale going on in there. I think shewould give it all away if she could. I tell her it'll give me somethingto do when I retire to keep me out of her hair. I also tell her that ifshe would let me build a two and a half car garage in the back yard shecould park her car in the present garage. So far she hasn't allowed meto do that. Hang in there, we'll know if your missing. We'll send out the dogs ifneed be. Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net from CALucker@aol.com Mon Nov 2 12:49:54 1998 Subject: Re: H.Carmichael Bix Bidiker or however you spell it.Chris Lucker from ljrp@penn.com Mon Nov 2 13:07:42 1998 Subject: Re: When is a Leonard not a Leonard I just sold a Leonard 39H and it would cast an absolute ton of line TERRY FINGER wrote: Bret wrote: I have to disagree with you on an orvis battenkill or a madison being abetterrod than a Leonard Duracane. I own both and the Leonard will thro amuchbetter line than the orvis any day. As a matter of fact I would sell theorvis rods in a heart beat and never let the Leonard go.Bret Hi, Bret, If you really want to sell those rods cheap, please contact me :-))! Seriously, I guess this is what makes all this so interesting; ouropinions are undoubtedly formed by individual casting styles, certainmodels in a given rodmaker's offerings, and quite likely individualrods within each model. My opinions are based on several Battenkills, Madisons,and 99's that I own and fish; they range from 6-1/2' to 8-1/2' andare all 30-40 years old. (I have no idea what Orvis' newer rodsare like). I also really like my early -70's vintage Leonard 38 and39H. These Orvis and "true" Leonard rods just seem to fish better somewhat slower, progressive tapers; perhaps this preference plays arole as well. Just out of curiousity, does anyone know for sure if:1) the Duracanes were truly built on Sharpes' blanks; and2) if so, were the tapers designed and specified by Leonard orwere they standard Sharpes models? Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Mon Nov 2 13:17:21 1998 (modemcable38.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Really really big fish BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_kFpj3PL422ffIG4nOV4AJg)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_kFpj3PL422ffIG4nOV4AJg) Hi Brian, A spey rod would be ideal for this situation: long casts, big upstreammends, and all this in water up to your waist. Plus, casting a two-handedrod would likely be much less tiring than fishing a single-handed 9 ft 7wt. I have a pal in Montreal who's planning on building spey rods and, bynecessity, machining his own spey rod ferrules. I can hardly wait to tryouthis creations. I feel, though, that building a cane spey rod may be a bitout of my league for now. Perhaps a graphite spey rod wouldn't be so bad,though... Thanks Richard-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Sunday, November 01, 1998 10:46 PM Subject: Re: Really really big fish Hi RichardThink Spey!!-----Original Message-----From: Richard Nantel Date: 1 novembre, 1998 20:34Subject: Really really big fish After years of fishing for normal size trout using small flies, Idid something totally different today. I hired a guide and fished a massiveriver containing really big fish: rainbows and browns in the 5 to 10 lbrange, steelhead of 15 lbs, chinook running..., well you get the picture. Wefished huge streamers 4 inches long. Most casts were 40 to 50 ft. I own nobamboo rod up to this task so used a G. Loomis GL3 9 ft. 7 wt, too fast arod for my liking. tiring to cast. I'd like to build a cane rod for this situation. Any suggestions fora taper I might try? It would need to be powerful, yet light enough for thehundreds of casts associated with this type of fishing. I'm thinkingpossibly a 6 wt. Also, would building such a rod hollow be the way to go?Should I consider a parabolic rod or is a faster action my only choice? Thanks in advance, Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca PS. My guide caught an 18 -inch rainbow. Just a baby he said. I gotone hit that almost yanked the rod from my hands. --Boundary_(ID_kFpj3PL422ffIG4nOV4AJg) Brian, rod would be ideal for this situation: long casts, big upstream mends, = this in water up to your waist. Plus, casting a two-handed rod would = much less tiring than fishing a single-handed 9 ft 7 wt. = a pal in Montreal who's planning on building spey rods and, by = machining his own spey rod ferrules. I can hardly wait to try out his = I feel, though, that building a cane spey rod may be a bit out of my = though... Thanks Richard SturrockSent: Sunday, November 01, 1998 10:46 = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Really really fishHi RichardThink Spey!! Rodmakers (E-mail) <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= fish After years of fishing for normal size trout using = did something totally different today. I hired a guide and = massive river containing really big fish: rainbows and browns in = to 10 lb range, steelhead of 15 lbs, chinook running..., well = the picture. We fished huge streamers 4 inches long. Most casts = to 50 ft. I own no bamboo rod up to this task so used a G. = I'd like to build a cane rod for this situation. Any = thinking possibly a 6 wt. Also, would building such a rod hollow = way to go? Should I consider a parabolic rod or is a faster = only choice? Thanks in advance, Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca PS. My guide caught an 18 -inch rainbow. Just a baby he = hands. --Boundary_(ID_kFpj3PL422ffIG4nOV4AJg)-- from CPETERS@rivertrade.com Mon Nov 2 13:19:58 1998 with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 02 Nov 1998 12:38:11 -0600 Subject: Semi-hollow rods and tip-tops I am a beginner, just finishing my first rod, starting my second andplanning (not planing) mythird. Since this is my first communication to the list after months ofsilently benefiting from the wisdom and experiences of others, I should start by thanking allthose who share theirwisdom and experience with those of us who are starting out. I havefriends who have less time My first question is basic: is there a trick to wrapping tip-tops? In mylimited experimentsthis is the one wrap that invariably looks odd. The step-down from tip-top to tip sectioncreates a "break-point" that I haven't yet conquered. Am I particularlyinept (be kind!), or isthere a trick? Should I be tapering the base of the tip-top somehow? How? My second question relates to my planned third rod. I would like to build aPHY Texas Generalbut the weight concerns me. Where could I get information on buildingsemi-hollow rods? Isthis a black art, practiced quietly, in the black of night, outside the viewof others or hassomeone attempted to document the process? Best of all, has anyone builta Texas Generalsemi-hollow and lived to speak of it? Any help you can give will begreatly appreciated. from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Mon Nov 2 13:34:06 1998 (modemcable38.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Really really big fish Hi Kent. This was the first time in my life hiring a guide. I suggested he fish too.This is HUGE water so there's no danger of crowding good spots. Also, I get(almost) as much of a kick watching someone catch a big fish as catchingonemyself. Richard -----Original Message----- Rodsofcane@aol.com Subject: Re: Really really big fish First off, what are you doing letting your guide fish! Guides are suppose toguide, not fish.What about a Dickerson - 8014 Guide My two centsKent K. Anderson from dellc@nextdim.com Mon Nov 2 13:39:47 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A75DA5F01E4; Mon, 02 Nov 1998 11:26:21 PDT Subject: Re: Semi-hollow rods and tip-tops When wrapping the tiptop I start on the rod and wrap towards the tiptop atthe tiptop I wrap back over for a short distance and tie off.Dell Coppock--- --Original Message----- Subject: Semi-hollow rods and tip-tops I am a beginner, just finishing my first rod, starting my second andplanning (not planing) my third. Since this is my first communication tothe list after months of silently benefiting from the wisdom andexperiencesof others, I should start by thanking all those who share their wisdom andexperience with those of us who are starting out. I have friends who haveless time for my questions! My first question is basic: is there a trick to wrapping tip-tops? In mylimited experiments this is the one wrap that invariably looks odd. Thestep-down from tip-top to tip section creates a "break-point" that Ihaven'tyet conquered. Am I particularly inept (be kind!), or is there a trick?Should I be tapering the base of the tip-top somehow? How? My second question relates to my planned third rod. I would like to builda PHY Texas General but the weight concerns me. Where could I getinformation on building semi-hollow rods? Is this a black art, practicedquietly, in the black of night, outside the view of others or has someoneattempted to document the process? Best of all, has anyone built a TexasGeneral semi-hollow and lived to speak of it? Any help you can give willbegreatly appreciated. from gwr@seanet.com Mon Nov 2 13:40:33 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA14500 for; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 Subject: Re: tip-tops boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01BE0655.ED4288E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BE0655.ED4288E0 boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0011_01BE0655.ED4288E0" ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01BE0655.ED4288E0Content-Type:text/plain; Hi Curt, There is a simple solution to your tip wrap problems: don't wrap =over the tube of the tip top. Simply wrap up to the edge of the tube. =This wrap is mere decoration and does not serve to help retain the tip =top. Best, Russ Golden Witch Rods - "Tools For Natural Philosophy"Golden Witch Technologies, Inc. - "The Golden Age Is Now"gwr@seanet.comhttp://www.goldenwitch.com snip My first question is basic: is there a trick to wrapping tip-tops? =In my limited experiments this is the one wrap that invariably looks =odd. The step-down from tip-top to tip section creates a "break-point" =that I haven't yet conquered. Am I particularly inept (be kind!), or is =there a trick? Should I be tapering the base of the tip-top somehow? =How? snip ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01BE0655.ED4288E0 Hi Curt, There is = decoration and does not serve to help retain the tip top. Best, Russ = "Tools For Natural Philosophy"Golden Witch snipMy first question is= How?snip ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01BE0655.ED4288E0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BE0655.ED4288E0 name="Golden Witch.vcf" filename="Golden Witch.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDN:Gooding;John;R.FN:Golden WitchORG:Golden WitchTITLE:Rod Maker &c.TEL;WORK;VOICE:(425) 787- 6599TEL;PAGER;VOICE:noneTEL;WORK;FAX:noneADR;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A;Lynnwood;WA;98037;USALABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A=3D0D=3D0ALynnwood, WA =98037=3D0D=3D0AUSAURL:noneURL:http://www.goldenwitch.comEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:gwr@seanet.comEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BE0655.ED4288E0-- from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Nov 2 13:40:45 1998 Subject: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight Lately I have had the good fortune of being able to castand actually fish with quite a few different cane rods. I have noticed that some rods feel light when castingthem, although their actual weight is the same as otherrods. What prompted me to write this is I have four rods on extendedloan to me from BFRM. Two Phillipsons and two Grangers. Allof them are 8 1/2 feet long. The Phillipsons are the Pacemaker and the Pow'rPak't. One Granger is the Special and the otherone was refinished and the name was removed. The Phillipsons are close to 1/2 ounce heavier than the Grangers,but feel lighter when actually casting a line. They also feel lighterwhen they are assembled and I'm just whipping them back andforth in the air. They do feel heavier when just holding them still. I think it would be interesting to do a weight distrubution graphalong with a stress curve to see if the way the weight isdistributed has anything to do with the perception of weightwhen casting. My feeling is that stiffer "faster" rods will be perceived as being heavier than slower rods. Darryl from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon Nov 2 13:46:13 1998 via smap (4.1) 11:50:35 PST Subject: RE: Semi-hollow rods and tip-tops Curt, To start I would select a tip top that fits tight or requires a little material to be removed from the apex's. You're probably already doing this. If you are using the standard 3/0 size thread then the edge is unavoidable. You could brush a couple of extra coats over this particular wrap to get a higher build that transitions to the tip top better. You could use a heavier size thread like A, but then you have a step between base of wrap and bamboo. If you do the size A at the tiptop to even the transition from wrap to tiptop then you could use 3/0 tipping to create a gradual step down from main wrap (Size A) to tipping size 3/0 to bamboo. You could also have a 6-10 turn transition wrap next to the tip top and then a longer wrap that starts a few turns before and overlays onto the underwrap to the edge of the tiptop. Normally used to wrap over ferrules with less tapered sleeves. These are probably ideas you have already considered. I don't know that I would try to feather the edge of a tiptop unless you plan to wrap up over it. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from tomchandler@earthlink.net Mon Nov 2 14:05:20 1998 Subject: Re: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight Darryl: The Phillipsons are close to 1/2 ounce heavier than the Grangers,but feel lighter when actually casting a line. They also feel lighterwhen they are assembled and I'm just whipping them back andforth in the air. They do feel heavier when just holding them still. I'm curious about this since I was always under the impression that BillPhillipson used the exact same taper for the 8.5' Phillipson that he used atGranger. Mike Sinclair has said the same thing. Am I wrong about this? Ifnot, what would account for the different in weight and feel? I can see I'm going to have to drag out my Granger Aristocrat and compareitto my Phillipson Power-Pakt. In any case, I think your original point about how a rod "feels" is aninteresting one that goes a long ways towards explaining the trend towardultra-fast rods in graphite -- if you've ever watched someone buy graphiteat a fly shop, they simply go down the rack picking up rods (without reelorline). The ones that feel the lightest in their hand (the fastest tapers)are the ones that get set aside for casting in the parking lot, where theytry to throw 80 feet every cast. I'm still amazed that actual "fishability" bears so little on their finaldecision. Finally, as a lurker on this list who has yet to build a rod, I'd like tooffer my thanks to everyone who contributes so much. I almost believe Icando this, and this from one of the "un-handiest" guys of his generation...8-) Tight lines,TC -----Original Message----- Subject: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight Lately I have had the good fortune of being able to castand actually fish with quite a few different cane rods. Ihave noticed that some rods feel light when castingthem, although their actual weight is the same as otherrods. What prompted me to write this is I have four rods on extendedloan to me from BFRM. Two Phillipsons and two Grangers. Allof them are 8 1/2 feet long. The Phillipsons are the Pacemakerand the Pow'rPak't. One Granger is the Special and the otherone was refinished and the name was removed. The Phillipsons are close to 1/2 ounce heavier than the Grangers,but feel lighter when actually casting a line. They also feel lighterwhen they are assembled and I'm just whipping them back andforth in the air. They do feel heavier when just holding them still. I think it would be interesting to do a weight distrubution graphalong with a stress curve to see if the way the weight isdistributed has anything to do with the perception of weightwhen casting. My feeling is that stiffer "faster" rods will beperceived as being heavier than slower rods. Darryl from channer@hubwest.com Mon Nov 2 14:09:27 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A1CF9470112; Mon, 02 Nov 1998 13:10:55 MDT Subject: Re: (WAS) Perfectionist, now workbench At 08:48 AM 11/2/98 -0600, you wrote:and it folds up and out of the way when not in use. Makes an excellent extra space for rodmaking, saving the table saw top for mixing paint etc.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is better Frank;Mixing paint? Everyone knows that the table saw top is where the bindergoes!John from channer@hubwest.com Mon Nov 2 14:13:27 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A2C31F40136; Mon, 02 Nov 1998 13:14:59 MDT Subject: Re: Murphy At 11:02 AM 11/2/98 -0500, you wrote:I also have a very low luck factor. I find that Mr. Murphy is incomplete control of almost everything I do.John(Livin in the past)Channer Must be a relative of the same Murphy that lurks in the corners of myshop!!J. Snider. Jerry;If you look in the phone book, or do a web search, I am sure you will findthat there are Murphy's everywhere. I wish they would all move in togethersomewhere where there are no trout streams and nobody builds bamboorods.John from channer@hubwest.com Mon Nov 2 14:17:26 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A3B57BD007A; Mon, 02 Nov 1998 13:19:01 MDT Subject: Re: Perfectionist at work At 09:53 AM 11/2/98, you wrote: Stuart, My bench where I plane is 14' long and is @ the height that is forcomfortable planning. The reason the bench is so long is that Iincorporated my cane storage underneath the bench. The storage holdsabout80 culms. Under the culms are stored all the long things you'll need likeforms, run on/off rails for the binder and the like. One end is supportedwith a drawer unit. The bench has 2 woodworkers vises spotted along it.Thetop is 2*4 on edge laminated construction overlayed by 1/4" masonitethatwas trimmed to the bench size. Masonite was chosen as it is somewhatsoft,glue peels off easy and the top costs little to replace. The bench is lagbolted to the walls and floor. You could butcher a moose on it. The benchis 2' wide so that the peg board in front of it is easily accessible. Thepeg board holds most the stuff you'll need for rod making. The bench thatattaches to the planning bench forming an "L" shape is 8' long and holdsthe lathe, grinder & 4" machinist vise. It also has drawer unitsunderneath have two florescent ballasts each holding 2 bulbs on the 14'er and twoballasts each holding 1 bulb on the 8'er. And I wish I had more light onthe 8'er. And isn't this fun. And just wait till you get to the splitting part. regards, Don Will you guys please stop it!!! You're making me feel under-equipped, now Iwill not only have a complex, but I'll proably go out and spend themortgage payment on an addition to the shop and a new work bench. Youwantthat on yourconcience's?John from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Nov 2 14:18:16 1998 Subject: Re: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight In a message dated 11/2/98 12:13:05 PM Pacific Standard Time,tomchandler@earthlink.net writes: I'm curious about this since I was always under the impression that BillPhillipson used the exact same taper for the 8.5' Phillipson that he usedatGranger. Mike Sinclair has said the same thing. Am I wrong about this?Ifnot, what would account for the different in weight and feel? I'm in the process of mic'ing them all out now. Stay tuned...Darryl from LambersonW@missouri.edu Mon Nov 2 14:19:12 1998 (5.5.2232.9) Subject: RE: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight Darryl - Does the balance point differ among these rods? If so, is thatassociated with your perception of weight? I might have guessed thatfastrods would have more of their weight concentrated toward the butt andfeellighter. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, November 02, 1998 1:38 PM Subject: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight Lately I have had the good fortune of being able to castand actually fish with quite a few different cane rods. I have noticed that some rods feel light when castingthem, although their actual weight is the same as otherrods. What prompted me to write this is I have four rods onextendedloan to me from BFRM. Two Phillipsons and two Grangers. Allof them are 8 1/2 feet long. The Phillipsons are thePacemaker and the Pow'rPak't. One Granger is the Special and the otherone was refinished and the name was removed. The Phillipsons are close to 1/2 ounce heavier than theGrangers,but feel lighter when actually casting a line. They alsofeel lighterwhen they are assembled and I'm just whipping them back andforth in the air. They do feel heavier when just holdingthem still. I think it would be interesting to do a weight distrubutiongraphalong with a stress curve to see if the way the weight isdistributed has anything to do with the perception of weightwhen casting. My feeling is that stiffer "faster" rods willbe perceived as being heavier than slower rods. Darryl from gwbarnes@gwi.net Mon Nov 2 14:22:54 1998 Subject: Re: (WAS) Perfectionist, now workbench I hate to tell you, but you both fall in the novice category. When you canputa 24' x 36' shop with a 12' x 36' annex in worse condition that you depict,then you'll have something to brag about. Just ask anyone who's been in myshop. Find you for months? Hell, if I died in my shop it would be anarchaeologistthat would come across me and just imagine the report he'd write aboutthatancient civilization. Dell wrote: Frank, we need to compare work areas, I never thought I would ever hearanyone admit to having a basement work shop as cluttered as mine.Dell Coppock-----Original Message-----From: Frank Stetzer Date: Monday, November 02, 1998 5:42 AMSubject: Re: (WAS) Perfectionist, now workbench My basement is such a cluttered mess I could die down there and thefamily wouldn't find me for months. I've got a workbench I use forplaning, but every extra inch is so covered with unfinished projectsthat coming up with a big, flat space is impossible. So I found anold ironing board at a resale shop and screwed on a plywood top about5ft by 20in. Its long enough for jobs like splicing nodeless stripsand glueup, etc. And the height is adjustable, it can be moved about,and it folds up and out of the way when not in use. Makes an excellentextra space for rodmaking, saving the table saw top for mixing paintetc.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from channer@hubwest.com Mon Nov 2 14:26:13 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A5C37C9007A; Mon, 02 Nov 1998 13:27:47 MDT Subject: Re: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight At 02:38 PM 11/2/98 EST, you wrote: Lately I have had the good fortune of being able to castand actually fish with quite a few different cane rods. I have noticed that some rods feel light when castingthem, although their actual weight is the same as otherrods. What prompted me to write this is I have four rods on extendedloan to me from BFRM. Two Phillipsons and two Grangers. Allof them are 8 1/2 feet long. The Phillipsons are the Pacemaker and the Pow'rPak't. One Granger is the Special and the otherone was refinished and the name was removed. The Phillipsons are close to 1/2 ounce heavier than the Grangers,but feel lighter when actually casting a line. They also feel lighterwhen they are assembled and I'm just whipping them back andforth in the air. They do feel heavier when just holding them still. I think it would be interesting to do a weight distrubution graphalong with a stress curve to see if the way the weight isdistributed has anything to do with the perception of weightwhen casting. My feeling is that stiffer "faster" rods will be perceived as being heavier than slower rods. Darryl Darryl;Have you measured these rods? I have only measured one Phillipson(aPacemaker, 5wt. I think), but it has several places where the taperchanges rod, thus making it feel lighter, or I could be full of hot air. Just athought.John from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Nov 2 15:51:24 1998 Subject: Re: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight I might have guessed that fastrods would have more of their weight concentrated toward the butt andfeellighter. My guess would be the exact opposite. Something has to bemaking the rod stiffer, and that has to be more bamboo. More bamboo, more weight, and farther away from the handle - more leverage.Thiswould make it feel heavier. Darryl from fritzwiese@webtv.net Mon Nov 2 15:57:20 1998 105.iap.bryant.webtv.net v.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id 111.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) ETAtAhUAoglY2oqoqCLT7Q0rKpXZ2Qtu9Y4CFCS1V8/nvWCUiFzBXoRlr/NJOaPi Subject: Spar Varnish Would like the lists opinion on what spar varnish to use for restoraton.Mentioned before that I used to use Val Spar, but I just can't find thatanymore. I have been told that the mixtures for spar have changedsince the EPA.Anybody use a spar that is not synthetic? Fritz Wiese from jhewitt@cmn.net Mon Nov 2 15:59:07 1998 Subject: Hendryx Rod To all...I'm new to your list, and find the information and banter fascinating aswell as informative. Recently I recieved a rod for restoration that Iknow nothing about. I hope someone will be able to help me put a historyon this rod.The rod is a "HENDRYX". It is a 9'4" 3/2. The bamboo has been flamedto a deep rich color. Windings are brown tipped in black. The cork gripis 7 1/2 inches long and the DL sliding band reel seat is 3 1/2 incheslong. The rod has no writing or decals on the bamboo. However, on thereel seat sliding band is "PAT. FEB 1921". Then on the butt cap is:HENDRYXtrade markMade in U.S.A.7575Other than Missing a hook keeper and a stripping guide the rod is inremarkably good shape. Any information concerning HENDRYX bamboo rodswould be extremely helpful. Thanks!!John H. from dhaftel@att.com Mon Nov 2 16:06:30 1998 sender att.com!dhaftel (att.com!dhaftel); Mon Nov 2 15:50 EST 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2 sol2) (5.5.2232.9) Subject: RE: Perfectionist at work Hey John, I'm working on my coffee table in my living room! How's that for acomplex!!?? At least I can listen to some good music while I plane! Dennis -----Original Message-----From: john channer [SMTP:channer@hubwest.com]Sent: Monday, November 02, 1998 9:00 AM Subject: Re: Perfectionist at work Will you guys please stop it!!! You're making me feel under-equipped, nowIwill not only have a complex, but I'll proably go out and spend themortgage payment on an addition to the shop and a new work bench. Youwantthat on yourconcience's?John from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Mon Nov 2 16:22:27 1998 Subject: RE: Perfectionist at work Dennis,Don't I remember you saying that your not married? If I'm right, that'swhy you can get away with that. I know guys that have rebuilt theirtruck or car engines in the living room or on the dining room table whenthey were single. When you get married forget it. The living spacebelongs to SWMBO.Dick Fuhrnandickay@alltel.net from anglport@con2.com Mon Nov 2 16:26:00 1998 Subject: Re: H.Carmichael Close enough!!(Bix Beiderbeck; I once heard a little girl refer to him as "Big SpiderBack") Guess we've beaten this sufficiently to death, so I'll drop it now.Art At 01:49 PM 11/2/98 EST, you wrote:Bix Bidiker or however you spell it.Chris Lucker from FlyTyr@southshore.com Mon Nov 2 16:30:32 1998 natco.southshore.com(8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA01794 for ;Mon, 2 Nov 1998 16:31:48-0600 Subject: Re: Perfectionist at work I built all the ribs for the wings on my airplane on the kitchen table. Istill have the same wife too. I don't think she would put up with bambooshavings. I will find out more about this when I start tracking shavingsinto the house.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com dickfuhrman@rheemote.com wrote: Dennis,Don't I remember you saying that your not married? If I'm right, that'swhy you can get away with that. I know guys that have rebuilt theirtruck or car engines in the living room or on the dining room table whenthey were single. When you get married forget it. The living spacebelongs to SWMBO.Dick Fuhrnandickay@alltel.net from Rodsofcane@aol.com Mon Nov 2 16:43:08 1998 Subject: Re: Really really big fish Richard Did not mean any thing by that comment, just personally think guidesshould dojust that, I to hired a guide and he fished. Really ticked me off, just mythoughts. Sorry if I offended you. Kent K. Anderson from rcurry@top.monad.net Mon Nov 2 16:55:44 1998 Subject: Re: Really really big fish Richard,Try Chris Bogart's "Big Dog" stick.Best regards,Reed from jkallo@midwest.net Mon Nov 2 16:59:24 1998 Subject: Re: Spar Varnish Mentioned before that I used to use Val Spar, but I just can't find thatanymore. Fritz, I don't what sort of stores you have access to, but my local Lowe's sells aline of ValSpar stuff. If memory served me right they sold both matte andgloss "Poly-U Spar Varnish." I always though spar varnish (the type not thebrand) was traditionally tung based--does poly-u varnish count as spar? Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from CALucker@aol.com Mon Nov 2 17:02:34 1998 Subject: Re: Spar Varnish In a message dated 11/2/98 2:03:40 PM Pacific Standard Time,fritzwiese@webtv.net writes: copal carnish, use copal from the art store. Same with casein varnish. Youmay blend your own varnishes as well. The formulas are available. Aswithmost anything concerning rod-building, do some primary research and youwillobtain the correct formulas. Stick with secondary research and you willprobably get nonsense. If you want some real varnish right now, try Spitani from Italy. Get it atfine boat supply stores.Chris Lucker from rcurry@top.monad.net Mon Nov 2 17:09:39 1998 Subject: Re: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight SalarFly@aol.com wrote:when casting. My feeling is that stiffer "faster" rods will beperceived as being heavier than slower rods. Darryl,I've found that slower action rods tend to feel a bit heavier thatfaster action; whereas in actual weight they are less. I attribute thisto the "meatier" butts and finer tips of the fast action rod. Of course,we may be working with different definitions of "fast" and "slow". WhenI say "slow" it's spelled sllllllllllloooooooooooow; which to me meansan old wet-fly action. If you look in old rod catalogues, the makerswould often list the rod weights. Wet- fly rods usually weighed .5 - 1.0oz less than dry-fly rods. But the wet-fly rods had more wood in thetip, and a very straight taper. (Gross generalisation, beware!!)Best regards,Reed from rcurry@top.monad.net Mon Nov 2 17:11:47 1998 Subject: Re: When is a Pflugeger not a Pflugeger? john channer wrote:Reed;What's FRP????John John,Fiber-Reinforced Plastic (FRP) is the catch-all term for fiberglassandgraphite rods (and canoes, boats, etc.).Best regards,Reed from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Nov 2 17:27:07 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Really really big fish I was on the Dowagiac Creek in Michigan Sunday using my 8 wght HeddonPremierand took many Kings up to 20# a few browns including one 6# and a fewSilversup to 8#. This was my fathers rod and it has never been used beforeyesterday. Still had the plastic on the handle. Traded my older brother a7.5 ft orvis graphite rod for it. The rod performed beautifully with allfish.Bret from dellc@nextdim.com Mon Nov 2 17:49:43 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A1C49D401AA; Mon, 02 Nov 1998 15:35:32 PDT Subject: Re: Re: Really really big fish Does my heart good to see somebody use a rod that was made to fish withevenif other people will say that you have detracted from the collectability ofit.Dell Coppock-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Really really big fish I was on the Dowagiac Creek in Michigan Sunday using my 8 wght HeddonPremierand took many Kings up to 20# a few browns including one 6# and a fewSilversup to 8#. This was my fathers rod and it has never been used beforeyesterday. Still had the plastic on the handle. Traded my older brother a7.5 ft orvis graphite rod for it. The rod performed beautifully with allfish.Bret from channer@hubwest.com Mon Nov 2 18:01:15 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A82835D0076; Mon, 02 Nov 1998 17:02:48 MDT Subject: RE: Perfectionist at work At 03:58 PM 11/2/98 -0500, you wrote:Hey John, I'm working on my coffee table in my living room! How's that for acomplex!!?? At least I can listen to some good music while I plane! Dennis -----Original Message-----From: john channer [SMTP:channer@hubwest.com]Sent: Monday, November 02, 1998 9:00 AM Subject: Re: Perfectionist at work Will you guys please stop it!!! You're making me feel under-equipped,nowIwill not only have a complex, but I'll proably go out and spend themortgage payment on an addition to the shop and a new work bench. Youwantthat on yourconcience's?John Dennis;Are you single, or do you have a very understanding SWMBO? My deepestsympathy, to you and all the rest of us make-do artists out there.John from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Nov 2 18:02:02 1998 Subject: Re: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight I've found that slower action rods tend to feel a bit heavier thatfaster action; whereas in actual weight they are less. A stiff rod (faster) has more of the rod that has to be reversedin the same unit of time during a switch from backcast to forecast and vice versa. More mass changing direction gives a perceivedfeeling of more weight. Darryl from channer@hubwest.com Mon Nov 2 18:04:53 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A903826007A; Mon, 02 Nov 1998 17:06:27 MDT Subject: Re: When is a Pflugeger not a Pflugeger? At 06:13 PM 11/2/98 -0500, you wrote:john channer wrote:Reed;What's FRP????John John,Fiber-Reinforced Plastic (FRP) is the catch-all term for fiberglassandgraphite rods (and canoes, boats, etc.).Best regards,Reed Reed;Thanks for the info, I hate to feel left out. I would probably have figuredit out for myself, in about 40 years. John from sats@gte.net Mon Nov 2 18:29:46 1998 Subject: Re: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight I think it would be interesting to do a weight distrubution graphalong with a stress curve to see if the way the weight isdistributed has anything to do with the perception of weightwhen casting. My feeling is that stiffer "faster" rods will be perceived as being heavier than slower rods. You bet it does. And I'll agree with you on this, but. The but being, I'm beginning to think that an entire taper can be modifiedtocast fast or slow. This is real hard to put into words but easy to draw. If you have a pair of nutcrackers, the kind that are attached on one end,thinkof a taper as attached on the tip end. Now think of increasing ordecreasesthe distance at the butt. Everything in between hinges with thatmovement. How would that affect a taper? Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from maxs@geocities.co.jp Mon Nov 2 19:15:29 1998 geocities.co.jp(8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id KAA27268 for; Tue, 3Nov 1998 10:15:10 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight SalarFly@aol.com wrote: I think it would be interesting to do a weight distrubution graphalong with a stress curve to see if the way the weight isdistributed has anything to do with the perception of weightwhen casting. My feeling is that stiffer "faster" rods will beperceived as being heavier than slower rods. Darryl Hi Darryl, It is an interesting topic. To my understanding of stress curve, the weight of each 5"(1" in Hexrod)interval of the rod has already been distributed and aggregated intomoment (and multiplied by factor of 4). IMHO, the difference of the peception is nothing other thanmoment matter. The stress curve model (of Garrison and Wayne) does notconsider the bend while rod is being casted forward and backword. Itsassumption is that an entire rod is moving straight (to perpendiculardirection to a rod). Since slower rods tends to bend much while casting, the perceptionreceives the moment with less length of the rod (unbend portion). Onthe other hand, faster or (harder) rod tends to be rather straight whilecasting. It would make you feel more force of moment derived fromlonger distance (of a straight portion of the rod) multiplied withweight and acceleration. sections after a rod is completed? If you try to use logical (orhypothetical approximation) weight, it is the direct proportional figureof the dimension of the rod at each 5" point, which implies the taper. So, the perception of the rod action is related with the bend derivedfromthe taper, isn't it? Max-- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Nov 2 19:27:56 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Really really big fish Colectible shmolectible I came to fish Ieven fish an old Payne from saweiss@flash.net Mon Nov 2 19:30:54 1998 Subject: Re: forms question Hi allI'm about ready to get 3 planing forms done . before the machinist startsi would like to know if the interior or touching surfaces have to be milledor can they be merely de-burred. I'm asking this question because I don'tthey will actually ever touch except possibly at one end for somee tinyrod.BTW using CRS stockTIA Brian Sturrock Brian,They can actually touch at the butt end as I found out on a recent rod.The PHY midge put my forms right together at the butt end of the buttsection. The certainly can also come together at the tip end when going fora 2- or 3-wt taper.Steve from saweiss@flash.net Mon Nov 2 19:38:39 1998 Subject: Re: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight -----Original Message----- Subject: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight Lately I have had the good fortune of being able to castand actually fish with quite a few different cane rods. Ihave noticed that some rods feel light when castingthem, although their actual weight is the same as otherrods. What prompted me to write this is I have four rods on extendedloan to me from BFRM. Two Phillipsons and two Grangers. Allof them are 8 1/2 feet long. The Phillipsons are the Pacemakerand the Pow'rPak't. One Granger is the Special and the otherone was refinished and the name was removed. The Phillipsons are close to 1/2 ounce heavier than the Grangers,but feel lighter when actually casting a line. They also feel lighterwhen they are assembled and I'm just whipping them back andforth in the air. They do feel heavier when just holding them still. I think it would be interesting to do a weight distrubution graphalong with a stress curve to see if the way the weight isdistributed has anything to do with the perception of weightwhen casting. My feeling is that stiffer "faster" rods will beperceived as being heavier than slower rods. Darryl Darryl,Do you find that the center of gravity or balance point of the rod, withoutreel attached, is a factor?Steve from fquinchat@locl.net Mon Nov 2 20:51:11 1998 corsair.locl.net (8.9.0/8.7.3) withESMTP id VAA06813 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 Subject: Re: Really really big fish Dickerson 8014 Guide, and excellent boat rod. Used it this summer on theYellowstone. Dennis Bertram ----------From: Rodsofcane@aol.com Subject: Re: Really really big fishDate: Monday, November 02, 1998 5:49 AM First off, what are you doing letting your guide fish! Guides are supposetoguide, not fish.What about a Dickerson - 8014 Guide My two centsKent K. Anderson from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Mon Nov 2 21:15:04 1998 (modemcable38.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Really really big fish Hey, Kent. Absolutely no offence taken. This was my first time hiring aguide and really don't know the ropes. I'd have to say though, that I didlearn a thing or two watching him fish. Also, having him fish helped keephis gaze a bit more on the water rather than on my occasional sloppybackcast making me less self-conscious. He was a gentleman and alwaysput meon the best water and fished the second rate stuff himself. Cheers Richard-----Original Message----- Rodsofcane@aol.com Subject: Re: Really really big fish RichardDid not mean any thing by that comment, just personally think guidesshoulddojust that, I to hired a guide and he fished. Really ticked me off, just mythoughts. Sorry if I offended you. Kent K. Anderson from jczimny@dol.net Mon Nov 2 21:26:44 1998 Subject: Re: Spar Varnish Yes. What matters most is the proportion of drying oil to resin. Spars runaround 35% resin. The rest is oils, reducers and small amounts ofadditives.John Z-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Spar Varnish Mentioned before that I used to use Val Spar, but I just can't find thatanymore. Fritz, I don't what sort of stores you have access to, but my local Lowe's sells aline of ValSpar stuff. If memory served me right they sold both matte andgloss "Poly-U Spar Varnish." I always though spar varnish (the type notthebrand) was traditionally tung based--does poly-u varnish count as spar? Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Nov 2 21:46:18 1998 Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:46:03 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Semi-hollow rods and tip-tops On Mon, 2 Nov 1998, CURT PETERSEN wrote:My second question relates to my planned third rod. I would like to build a PHY Texas General but the weight concerns me. Where could I get information on building semi-hollow rods? Is this a black art, practiced quietly, in the black of night, outside the view of others or has someone attempted to document the process? Best of all, has anyone built a Texas General semi-hollow and lived to speak ofit? Any help you can give will be greatly appreciated. The solid TG I made wasn't that heavy to cast and with a decent weighted reel the balace was such it was fine to cast which is the usual thing. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from jhewitt@cmn.net Mon Nov 2 21:49:47 1998 Subject: Re: Really really big fish Richard Nantel wrote: Hey, Kent. Absolutely no offence taken. This was my first time hiring aguide and really don't know the ropes. I'd have to say though, that I didlearn a thing or two watching him fish. Also, having him fish helped keephis gaze a bit more on the water rather than on my occasional sloppybackcast making me less self-conscious. He was a gentleman and alwaysput meon the best water and fished the second rate stuff himself. Cheers Richard-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Rodsofcane@aol.comSent: Monday, November 02, 1998 5:42 PM Subject: Re: Really really big fish RichardDid not mean any thing by that comment, just personally think guidesshoulddojust that, I to hired a guide and he fished. Really ticked me off, just mythoughts. Sorry if I offended you. Kent K. Anderson I'm a guide, I would never, ever, fish while with a client. Even whentheclient says, hey, I know what I'm doing, go ahead and fish, I justwanted to geton this private water. I will still spend my time evaluating the client'scast,or presentation, choice of flys, Etc. As far as I'm concerned a guide whofisheswhile working is a guide who is not doing their job.!! from mstevens@ptdprolog.net Mon Nov 2 21:58:38 1998 0000 Subject: Rod list Here is my current Rod and reel List Bamboo 1. Heddon Model 35 8 1/2' 2F 3/2 bag and unoriginal tube. Mid is about 1inch short. Rod has been redone with modern guides and rewrapped inwrongcolor(Red). This is an early rod with uplocking seat and Heddon writtenacross three flats. High quality rod ready to take fishing. EXRefinished.....$275 2. Heddon Model17 Black Beauty 8 1/2' 2F 3/2 Heddon bag. Nice rodneedingonly a plastic butt cap. VG+.....$215 3. Heddon Model 14 Thorobred 8 1/2" 2F 3/2 Original bag and tube. Overallin VG+ condition but has a small splinter on one tip needs to be repairedand wrapped. VG+.....$165 4. Montague Sunbeam 8 1/2' 3/2 Butt female and mid male ferrules havecracks. One tiptop is missing. Nice varnish and decal.....$45 5. Heddon 5' Baitcasting rod 2/1 Early rod from about 1910 1/8" corkrings,Heddon Dowagiac on seat. Agate guides. Chip out of butt cork. Varnish andwraps are fine.....$95 7. Gene Edwards 5 1/2' Bamboo baitcaster 1 piece, removable offsethandle,Marked "made by Gene Edwards" on rod shaft, Varnish could use somerubbingout, wrapped in red silk. VG+.....$125 9. Unmarked 5' bamboo baitcaster 2/1 This rod has full diamond wraps inredand yellow full length. In the 20's H-I offered a rod like this with asteel core. This may be one of them. Needs guides but the diamond wrap isin EX condition. Easy fix for a really nice display rod. VG+.....$55 10. Heddon 4 1/2' Bamboo baitcaster 2/1 Nice varnish but needs one guideand tip top. Early rod with sheet cork grip and long butt cap. Swelledbutt. .....$30 11. Heddon #850 4 1/2' bamboo baitcaster "Heddon" across three flats. Onepiece shaft with removable straight grip handle. This rod is in really nicecondition with some bag marks in the varnish. EX-.....$125 12. Unmarked quality 5' bamboo baitcaster. 2/1 Reel seat marked PAT May41920 Intermediate wraps, High quality ferrules with double bead welt.needs first guide, nice handle VG+.....$75 13. Unmarked quality 5' bamboo baitcaster. 2/1 Reel seat marked PAT May41920 Intermediate wraps, nice handle with long butt cap. Ready to fish orhang on the wall VG+.....$85 14. Shakespeare 5 1/2' bamboo baitcaster 2/1 original bag, NiceShakespearedecal on shaft with only a small chip out of it. Nice early 20's rod foryour display.VG+.....$95 15. Jay Harvey 5 1/2' Bamboo baitcaster 2/1 original bag. Seat markedwithPAT May 4 1920 and Jay Harvey engraved in seat. Close intermediatewrapsand ready to display. VG+.....$105 Some glass rods 16. Montague 8' brown glass flyrod 2/1 needs 2 guides rewrapped. Perfectdecal Red plastice seat. Nice old 50's rod. VG+.....$20 17. J.C. Higgins Solid glass baitcaster in original bag. Nice pistol griphandle with plastic insert insert grip marked J.C. Higgins. Probably early50's. EX- .....$25 18. H-I Crown Imperial 6 1/2' Fiberglass baitcaster 2 piece shaft withremovable handle. Rod is in new condition with perfect decals. RegisteredB-860 EX+.....$75 19. Heddon Pal 6205 Mark II 5 1/2' Fast tip baitcaster EX-.....$95 Reels 20. Heddon 125 Imperial flyreel from the 30's Round line guide. Gunmetalgrey finish. Shows use but still works fine. VG+.....$110 21. Pridex by Young Brothers Redditch England for Shakespeare. 3 1/2" dia.Minor edge wear EX-.....$75 22. Weber Futurist Bakelite flyreel Handle has small chips. EX-.....$20 23. Weberkraft Nylon No. 500 flyreel EX-.....$20 24. H-I Vernley Trout Reel, bakelite EX.....$20 25. Martin No. 48 automatic flyreel, green EX.....$20 Please email to hold. Shipping for one rod is $9.00. I can provide scans ofrods or reels if needed. Thanks, Mike Michael StevensRR 1 Box 307CEffort PA 18330 610 681 5670 mstevens@ptdprolog.net Stevens Sight & Tool CoMaker of fine sights for antique single shot target rifles Collector of Heddon and other bamboo flyrods and casting rods. HeddonRiverRunt Spooks and Coxe baitcasting reels. from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Mon Nov 2 23:52:41 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP Subject: Re: tip-tops boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0089_01BE06AB.FD1D9060" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0089_01BE06AB.FD1D9060 I've never seen (or heard of) it being done as Curt described (actually =wrapping onto the tube of the tip-top). Just out of curiosity, how =common is the method Curt described? George Bourke-----Original Message-----From: Golden Witch Date: Monday, November 02, 1998 11:46 AMSubject: Re: tip-tops Hi Curt, There is a simple solution to your tip wrap problems: don't =wrap over the tube of the tip top. Simply wrap up to the edge of the =tube. This wrap is mere decoration and does not serve to help retain =the tip top. Best, Russ Golden Witch Rods - "Tools For Natural Philosophy"Golden Witch Technologies, Inc. - "The Golden Age Is Now"gwr@seanet.comhttp://www.goldenwitch.com snip My first question is basic: is there a trick to wrapping =tip-tops? In my limited experiments this is the one wrap that =invariably looks odd. The step-down from tip-top to tip section creates =a "break-point" that I haven't yet conquered. Am I particularly inept =(be kind!), or is there a trick? Should I be tapering the base of the =tip-top somehow? How? snip ------=_NextPart_000_0089_01BE06AB.FD1D9060 I've never seen (or heard of) it = of curiosity, how common is the method Curt described? George Bourke -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= tip-topsHi Curt, top. Best, Russ Golden Witch "Tools For Natural Philosophy"Golden Witch = snipMy first question= experiments this is the one wrap that invariably looks = step-down from tip-top to tip section creates a = How?snip= ------=_NextPart_000_0089_01BE06AB.FD1D9060-- from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Mon Nov 2 23:56:00 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP Subject: Re: Semi-hollow rods and tip-tops I'd be REAL reluctant to feather the edge (="create a little knife") of thetip- top. There just isn't that much bamboo up there! George Bourke -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Semi-hollow rods and tip-tops Curt, I don't know that I would try to feather the edge of a tiptop unless youplan to wrap up over it. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Tue Nov 3 00:00:25 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP Subject: Re: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight Weren't the Phillipson rods impregnated while the Granger was varnished?That could account for the "heavier while holding it still" -- possibly theadded mass in the tip section would make it feel slower as well (I'venevertried the same taper varnished vs. impregnated). George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight Darryl: The Phillipsons are close to 1/2 ounce heavier than the Grangers,but feel lighter when actually casting a line. They also feel lighterwhen they are assembled and I'm just whipping them back andforth in the air. They do feel heavier when just holding them still. I'm curious about this since I was always under the impression that BillPhillipson used the exact same taper for the 8.5' Phillipson that he usedatGranger. Mike Sinclair has said the same thing. Am I wrong about this? Ifnot, what would account for the different in weight and feel? I can see I'm going to have to drag out my Granger Aristocrat and compareitto my Phillipson Power-Pakt. In any case, I think your original point about how a rod "feels" is aninteresting one that goes a long ways towards explaining the trendtowardultra-fast rods in graphite -- if you've ever watched someone buygraphiteat a fly shop, they simply go down the rack picking up rods (without reelorline). The ones that feel the lightest in their hand (the fastest tapers)are the ones that get set aside for casting in the parking lot, where theytry to throw 80 feet every cast. I'm still amazed that actual "fishability" bears so little on their finaldecision. Finally, as a lurker on this list who has yet to build a rod, I'd like tooffer my thanks to everyone who contributes so much. I almost believe Icando this, and this from one of the "un-handiest" guys of his generation...8-) Tight lines,TC -----Original Message-----From: SalarFly@aol.com Date: Monday, November 02, 1998 11:47 AMSubject: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight Lately I have had the good fortune of being able to castand actually fish with quite a few different cane rods. Ihave noticed that some rods feel light when castingthem, although their actual weight is the same as otherrods. What prompted me to write this is I have four rods on extendedloan to me from BFRM. Two Phillipsons and two Grangers. Allof them are 8 1/2 feet long. The Phillipsons are the Pacemakerand the Pow'rPak't. One Granger is the Special and the otherone was refinished and the name was removed. The Phillipsons are close to 1/2 ounce heavier than the Grangers,but feel lighter when actually casting a line. They also feel lighterwhen they are assembled and I'm just whipping them back andforth in the air. They do feel heavier when just holding them still. I think it would be interesting to do a weight distrubution graphalong with a stress curve to see if the way the weight isdistributed has anything to do with the perception of weightwhen casting. My feeling is that stiffer "faster" rods will beperceived as being heavier than slower rods. Darryl from destinycon@mindspring.com Tue Nov 3 07:40:30 1998 Subject: Re: Rod list At 10:58 PM 11/2/98 -0500, you wrote:Here is my current Rod and reel ListThanks, Mike Damn, I thought we just settled all this kind of sh*%Gary H. from Canerods@aol.com Tue Nov 3 08:08:20 1998 Subject: Re: Rod list Mike, Just got you rod list - I'll look it over more tonight. If you want to replace the butt cap to put on your #17 - I'll send you one. Don B. PS - How much would you offer an owner of a 7' T&T Midge? I've beencontacted wasselling at $1,000 on Martin Keane's list - so on the high end of the valuerange. from gwr@seanet.com Tue Nov 3 08:17:12 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA16065 for; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 Subject: Re: Rod list boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001E_01BE06F1.E8E417E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BE06F1.E8E417E0 boundary="----=_NextPart_001_001F_01BE06F1.E8E417E0" ------=_NextPart_001_001F_01BE06F1.E8E417E0 Sorry, that should have gone offlist. ------=_NextPart_001_001F_01BE06F1.E8E417E0 Sorry, that should have = offlist. ------=_NextPart_001_001F_01BE06F1.E8E417E0-- ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BE06F1.E8E417E0 name="Golden Witch.vcf" filename="Golden Witch.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDN:Gooding;John;R.FN:Golden WitchORG:Golden WitchTITLE:Rod Maker &c.TEL;WORK;VOICE:(425) 787- 6599TEL;PAGER;VOICE:noneTEL;WORK;FAX:noneADR;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A;Lynnwood;WA;98037;USALABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A=3D0D=3D0ALynnwood, WA =98037=3D0D=3D0AUSAURL:noneURL:http://www.goldenwitch.comEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:gwr@seanet.comEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BE06F1.E8E417E0-- from gwr@seanet.com Tue Nov 3 08:27:00 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA16049 for; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 Subject: Re: Rod list boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01BE06F1.CD0822A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BE06F1.CD0822A0 boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0013_01BE06F1.CD0822A0" ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01BE06F1.CD0822A0 Hi Mike, Please sign me up for #10. If you've still got it, let me know & =I'll get a check out to you shortly. Thanks, Russ Golden Witch Rods - "Tools For Natural Philosophy"Golden Witch Technologies, Inc. - "The Golden Age Is Now"gwr@seanet.comhttp://www.goldenwitch.com -----Original Message-----From: Michael Stevens Date: Monday, November 02, 1998 7:59 PMSubject: Rod list Here is my current Rod and reel List Bamboo 1. Heddon Model 35 8 1/2' 2F 3/2 bag and unoriginal tube. Mid is =about 1inch short. Rod has been redone with modern guides and rewrapped in =wrongcolor(Red). This is an early rod with uplocking seat and Heddon =writtenacross three flats. High quality rod ready to take fishing. EXRefinished.....$275 2. Heddon Model17 Black Beauty 8 1/2' 2F 3/2 Heddon bag. Nice rod =needingonly a plastic butt cap. VG+.....$215 3. Heddon Model 14 Thorobred 8 1/2" 2F 3/2 Original bag and tube. =Overallin VG+ condition but has a small splinter on one tip needs to be =repairedand wrapped. VG+.....$165 4. Montague Sunbeam 8 1/2' 3/2 Butt female and mid male ferrules =havecracks. One tiptop is missing. Nice varnish and decal.....$45 5. Heddon 5' Baitcasting rod 2/1 Early rod from about 1910 1/8" cork =rings,Heddon Dowagiac on seat. Agate guides. Chip out of butt cork. =Varnish andwraps are fine.....$95 7. Gene Edwards 5 1/2' Bamboo baitcaster 1 piece, removable offset =handle,Marked "made by Gene Edwards" on rod shaft, Varnish could use some =rubbingout, wrapped in red silk. VG+.....$125 9. Unmarked 5' bamboo baitcaster 2/1 This rod has full diamond wraps =in redand yellow full length. In the 20's H-I offered a rod like this with =asteel core. This may be one of them. Needs guides but the diamond =wrap isin EX condition. Easy fix for a really nice display rod. VG+.....$55 10. Heddon 4 1/2' Bamboo baitcaster 2/1 Nice varnish but needs one =guideand tip top. Early rod with sheet cork grip and long butt cap. =Swelledbutt. .....$30 11. Heddon #850 4 1/2' bamboo baitcaster "Heddon" across three =flats. Onepiece shaft with removable straight grip handle. This rod is in =really nicecondition with some bag marks in the varnish. EX-.....$125 12. Unmarked quality 5' bamboo baitcaster. 2/1 Reel seat marked PAT =May 41920 Intermediate wraps, High quality ferrules with double bead =welt.needs first guide, nice handle VG+.....$75 13. Unmarked quality 5' bamboo baitcaster. 2/1 Reel seat marked PAT =May 41920 Intermediate wraps, nice handle with long butt cap. Ready to =fish orhang on the wall VG+.....$85 14. Shakespeare 5 1/2' bamboo baitcaster 2/1 original bag, Nice =Shakespearedecal on shaft with only a small chip out of it. Nice early 20's rod =foryour display.VG+.....$95 15. Jay Harvey 5 1/2' Bamboo baitcaster 2/1 original bag. Seat =marked withPAT May 4 1920 and Jay Harvey engraved in seat. Close intermediate =wrapsand ready to display. VG+.....$105 Some glass rods 16. Montague 8' brown glass flyrod 2/1 needs 2 guides rewrapped. =Perfectdecal Red plastice seat. Nice old 50's rod. VG+.....$20 17. J.C. Higgins Solid glass baitcaster in original bag. Nice pistol =griphandle with plastic insert insert grip marked J.C. Higgins. Probably =early50's. EX- .....$25 18. H-I Crown Imperial 6 1/2' Fiberglass baitcaster 2 piece shaft =withremovable handle. Rod is in new condition with perfect decals. =RegisteredB-860 EX+.....$75 19. Heddon Pal 6205 Mark II 5 1/2' Fast tip baitcaster EX-.....$95 Reels 20. Heddon 125 Imperial flyreel from the 30's Round line guide. =Gunmetalgrey finish. Shows use but still works fine. VG+.....$110 21. Pridex by Young Brothers Redditch England for Shakespeare. 3 =1/2" dia.Minor edge wear EX-.....$75 22. Weber Futurist Bakelite flyreel Handle has small chips. =EX-.....$20 23. Weberkraft Nylon No. 500 flyreel EX-.....$20 24. H-I Vernley Trout Reel, bakelite EX.....$20 25. Martin No. 48 automatic flyreel, green EX.....$20 Please email to hold. Shipping for one rod is $9.00. I can provide =scans ofrods or reels if needed. Thanks, Mike Michael StevensRR 1 Box 307CEffort PA 18330 610 681 5670 mstevens@ptdprolog.net Stevens Sight & Tool CoMaker of fine sights for antique single shot target rifles Collector of Heddon and other bamboo flyrods and casting rods. =Heddon RiverRunt Spooks and Coxe baitcasting reels. ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01BE06F1.CD0822A0 Hi Mike, Please = you shortly. Thanks, Russ = "Tools For Natural Philosophy"Golden Witch -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= = and unoriginal tube. Mid is about 1inch short. Rod has been = modern guides and rewrapped in wrongcolor(Red). This is an early = with uplocking seat and Heddon writtenacross three flats. High = rod ready to take fishing. EXRefinished.....$2752. = needingonly a plastic butt cap. VG+.....$2153. Heddon = condition but has a small splinter on one tip needs to be = female and mid male ferrules havecracks. One tiptop is missing. = varnish and decal.....$455. Heddon 5' Baitcasting rod 2/1 = from about 1910 1/8" cork rings,Heddon Dowagiac on seat. = fine.....$957. Gene Edwards 5 1/2' Bamboo baitcaster 1 = removable offset handle,Marked "made by Gene Edwards"= VG+.....$1259. Unmarked 5' bamboo baitcaster 2/1 This rod = diamond wraps in redand yellow full length. In the 20's H-I = rod like this with asteel core. This may be one of them. Needs = but the diamond wrap isin EX condition. Easy fix for a really = display rod. VG+.....$5510. Heddon 4 1/2' Bamboo baitcaster = varnish but needs one guideand tip top. Early rod with sheet = and long butt cap. Swelledbutt. .....$3011. Heddon #850 = bamboo baitcaster "Heddon" across three flats. = with removable straight grip handle. This rod is in really = with some bag marks in the varnish. EX-.....$12512. Unmarked = 5' bamboo baitcaster. 2/1 Reel seat marked PAT May 41920 = wraps, High quality ferrules with double bead welt.needs first = nice handle VG+.....$7513. Unmarked quality 5' bamboo = 2/1 Reel seat marked PAT May 41920 Intermediate wraps, nice = long butt cap. Ready to fish orhang on the wall = Shakespearedecal on shaft with only a small chip out of it. Nice = 20's rod foryour display.VG+.....$9515. Jay Harvey 5 = baitcaster 2/1 original bag. Seat marked withPAT May 4 1920 and = Harvey engraved in seat. Close intermediate wrapsand ready to = VG+.....$105Some glass rods16. Montague 8' brown = flyrod 2/1 needs 2 guides rewrapped. Perfectdecal Red plastice = baitcaster in original bag. Nice pistol griphandle with plastic = EX-.....$2518. H-I Crown Imperial 6 1/2' Fiberglass = piece shaft withremovable handle. Rod is in new condition with = decals. RegisteredB-860 EX+.....$7519. Heddon Pal 6205 = 1/2' Fast tip baitcaster EX-.....$95Reels20. Heddon = Imperial flyreel from the 30's Round line guide. Gunmetalgrey = Young Brothers Redditch England for Shakespeare. 3 1/2" = edge wear EX-.....$7522. Weber Futurist Bakelite flyreel = small chips. EX-.....$2023. Weberkraft Nylon No. 500 flyreel = EX.....$20Please email to hold. Shipping for one rod is = needed.Thanks,MikeMichael StevensRR 1= 5670mstevens@ptdprolog.netS= Sight & Tool CoMaker of fine sights for antique single shot = riflesCollector of Heddon and other bamboo flyrods and = reels. ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01BE06F1.CD0822A0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BE06F1.CD0822A0 name="Golden Witch.vcf" filename="Golden Witch.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDN:Gooding;John;R.FN:Golden WitchORG:Golden WitchTITLE:Rod Maker &c.TEL;WORK;VOICE:(425) 787- 6599TEL;PAGER;VOICE:noneTEL;WORK;FAX:noneADR;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A;Lynnwood;WA;98037;USALABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A=3D0D=3D0ALynnwood, WA =98037=3D0D=3D0AUSAURL:noneURL:http://www.goldenwitch.comEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:gwr@seanet.comEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BE06F1.CD0822A0-- from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Nov 3 08:44:19 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight Darryl,I've been building light tip rods for some time now. I feel that with lessweight out front the less the rod bends into the butt, hence a faster rod.Theheavier tip rods are generally slower and ,to me ,feel heavier with morecaneout front. Just my $.02Regards,Hank(always confused) Woolman from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Nov 3 08:45:45 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight Darryl,Remember the lever principle? The faster rod has more weight closer tothefulcrum(reel +handle) and therefor feels lighter. I don't make a faster rodbyadding wood to the tip.Regards,Hank.P.S. All this is a matter of opinion and we can go 'round and 'roundforever-but ain't it fun? from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Nov 3 09:13:15 1998 Subject: Re: Rod list Michael,You just stepped over the commercial boundary of this list. I think if youhave a rod list (and a lot of us do) it should be provided off list.Regards,Hank Woolman. from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Tue Nov 3 09:18:29 1998 (modemcable44.174.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: test BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_LJGSjPFEjUaRbpqZf699eA)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_LJGSjPFEjUaRbpqZf699eA) BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_Aso56laSu7Uki2pnqzTkGA)" --Boundary_(ID_Aso56laSu7Uki2pnqzTkGA) --Boundary_(ID_Aso56laSu7Uki2pnqzTkGA) --Boundary_(ID_Aso56laSu7Uki2pnqzTkGA)-- --Boundary_(ID_LJGSjPFEjUaRbpqZf699eA) mail).vcf" BEGIN:VCARDVERSION:2.1N:Nantel;Richard;;;FN:Richard Nantel (E-mail)ORG:Le groupe MENTOR;TITLE:TEL;WORK;VOICE:(514) 393- 3292TEL;HOME;VOICE:(514) 485-2287TEL;PAGER;VOICE:[1] (514) 111- 1111TEL;WORK;FAX:(514) 393-1483ADR;WORK:;;4374 Old Orchard Avenue;Monteal;Quebec;H4A 3B4;CanadaLABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:4374 Old Orchard =Avenue=3D0D=3D0AMonteal, Quebec H4A 3B4=3D0D=3D0ACanadaADR;HOME:;;4374 Old Orchard Avenue;Monteal;Quebec;H4A 3B4;CanadaLABEL;HOME;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:4374 Old Orchard =Avenue=3D0D=3D0AMonteal, Quebec H4A 3B4=3D0D=3D0ACanadaEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:richard.nantel@videotron.caREV:19980514T133343ZEND:VCARD --Boundary_(ID_LJGSjPFEjUaRbpqZf699eA)-- from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Nov 3 09:30:39 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Really really big fish Jhewitt,I'm also a guide and usually don't even take a rod of mine along but oneof my wife's elderly clients got tired and asked her to fish and afterwardssaid they learned a great deal just watching her fish so I don't go by hardand fast rules.Hank. from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Nov 3 12:02:06 1998 Subject: Re: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight In a message dated 11/2/98 5:40:10 PM Pacific Standard Time,saweiss@flash.netwrites: Do you find that the center of gravity or balance point of the rod,withoutreel attached, is a factor? Not really. The reel adds so much weight to the end that ittends to overpower the balance point of the rod when the reel isn't on it. You can affect the feel when casting quitea bit by putting a heavier or lighter reel on though. Darryl from sjstill@iquest.net Tue Nov 3 12:14:56 1998 0000 (209.43.48.200) Subject: Re: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight Hi All, The first cane rod I ever owned was a Hardy 7'-9" for 7 wt. Monster rod tocast! VERY tip heavy. I was advised to get an older Pflueger reel becauseyou can add lead to the center section. I did so, but never could getenough lead in to really balance that rod. Wound up getting rid of the rod,but still have the anchor, er, reel! Did catch my first carp with that rod! But I don't really miss it. Anyone want a nice 1495 Pflueger reel (can't get the lead out ) Steve Steve and Julie Stillabower, Indianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net from RVenneri@aol.com Tue Nov 3 14:50:09 1998 Subject: test test from Chris.Journigan@nau.edu Tue Nov 3 14:56:27 1998 with ESMTP id for Subject: split cane I recently took on my first bamboo project. In the butt section thereseveral splits in the seams right at the nodes. Can anyone point me in the right direction to repair these cracks. They just don't seem to want to pull together. from ljrp@penn.com Tue Nov 3 17:46:21 1998 Subject: Re: Spar Varnish Is this available in Pa USA (Spitani) CALucker@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 11/2/98 2:03:40 PM Pacific Standard Time,fritzwiese@webtv.net writes: Mentioned before that I used to use Val Spar, but I just can't find thatanymore. I have been told that the mixtures for spar have changedsince the EPA.Anybody use a spar that is not synthetic? copal carnish, use copal from the art store. Same with casein varnish. Youmay blend your own varnishes as well. The formulas are available. Aswithmost anything concerning rod-building, do some primary research andyou willobtain the correct formulas. Stick with secondary research and you willprobably get nonsense. If you want some real varnish right now, try Spitani from Italy. Get it atfine boat supply stores.Chris Lucker from bacon@idt.net Tue Nov 3 18:03:22 1998 Subject: Re: Fiberglass vs. Mineral Wool (Rock Wool) john channer wrote: At 03:29 PM 10/29/98 EDT, you wrote:Michael,You got my curiosity up, so I contacted one of the vendors who suppliesthe company I work for to find out the difference between fiberglassandmineral wool. What follows is what he sent me. Glass wool fibers are produced by spinning or blowing molten glass,consisting of silicon, aluminum, boron, calcium, sodium, and/or othermetal oxides. For thermal and acoustical applications, the typicaldiameter of the fibers ranging from 3 to 8 micrometers in normaldiameter are used. In Addition, the range of fiber from 1 through 5micrometers in diameter is used if filter media for heating,ventilating, and air conditioning systems. Me again, So Richard if you wanted to try this method of Michael's, you couldpossibly use fiber glass pipe wrap. As Michael said, the mineral woolcan only be used once and is messy.Fiber glass pipe wrap is available in most hardware stores in thestates. I would think that it would be available in your area also. I would suggest that you move your oven outside as the binder in thefiber glass will burn off from the heat and might create an odoroffensive to SWMBO. I may try this later this winter. I would alsosuggest that you use gloves when handling the fiber glass. A Longsleeve shirt would also be helpfull. Regards Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net Dick;I didn't even know that you could still get rockwool, I have only seen itin houses I have remodelled that were built between the early part ofthiscentury and the early fifties. BTW, those of you messing around withfiberglass insulation for the first time, be aware, the dust from thisstuff itches like wildfire and the only way I know of to get it off yourskin is by a cold shower, cold closes your pores so the fibers wash off, ahot shower will open the pores in your skin and the itching will go on alot longer. John Channerjohn,also, beware of breathing IN fiberglass, it can cause mucho problemo! just a medical note,jean (bacon@idt.net) from Canerods@aol.com Tue Nov 3 19:16:21 1998 Subject: Test List down - or what? Don Burns from bacon@idt.net Wed Nov 4 01:05:54 1998 Subject: Re: Plastic Rods & Splines SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 10/29/98 5:57:54 PM Pacific Standard Time,bacon@idt.netwrites: when ifinally do complete my first canerod, does that mean, icanneverturnback? Not neccessarily your first cane rod, but if you stay with cane longenough you will run accross a bamboo rod that will meld to yoursoul and become an extension of your arm. It will place a flyexactly where you want it and the fly will land as if it was thistledown on a summer breeze. When you catch the first fish on thisrod you will feel every quiver of it's fins. You will be able to reactto each move of the fish as if you knew what it was going to do beforeit did. 7X and 8X tippet will feel as strong as 4X or 3X. This rod is not the same for everyone, and some people don'tever find their rod, but if you do find it then you canneverturnback. Darryldarryl,beautifully written, hope icanfindthewaytosuchacanerod!jean from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Wed Nov 4 01:28:10 1998 Subject: Test - don't read from ljrp@penn.com Wed Nov 4 01:35:12 1998 Subject: Re: test I noticed (I think) that on the Heddon 50 there were two different tipmeasurements. My Heddon catalog from 1940 doesn't state two differenttips for any rod, wondering if the one tip was a replacement orfactory?? RVenneri@aol.com wrote: test from flyrod6@juno.com Wed Nov 4 02:02:42 1998 UAAAA22742 20:56:47 EST Subject: Re: Perfectionist at work Stuard If I had one suggestion it would be to make it strong and sound. If youare planning to hand plan, you do not want it moving around Mark Hallowell On Sun, 1 Nov 1998 12:53:32 EST Turbotrk@aol.com writes:To the list, I am in the process of transforming a room of my house into a "Rod MakingRoom" to build my first bamboo rod. I would like to start with the work tablethat I will be using. What does the list think should be required as far asheight, length, width if they had their druthers. I know this sounds like astupid question but, not having actually done a lot of planing, it seems therewould be a correct position for perfect planing. Also, what should the topsurface be? I have heard that plexiglass would be good. I have aperfectionists attitude and do not want to start unless all is perfect. Second question: is there any reason not to use clear red oak for roughplaning forms? It is considerably cheaper then maple in my neck of thewoods. soon to be a rod builderstuart miller ___________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno athttp://www.juno.com/getjuno.htmlor call Juno at (800) 654- JUNO [654-5866] from bacon@idt.net Wed Nov 4 02:26:53 1998 Subject: Re: Perfectionist at work cbogart wrote: Stuart have no problems. I assume you are somewhere around average height (5' 10 - 6')the lowest I would go is 33" and highest 37" - If you just plane on it I would go with a higher height. My students benches are high andthey found it comfortable to plane on. But an all around bench I wouldgo with 34" which I built mine at. It works very well for most things. As for top - go with good old plywood and make it thick 3/4".You want the bench to be sturdy. You can put on some laminate top iflooks are a concern. Plexiglass is not a good choice. I keep a sheetavail for sharpening but that is it. It will scratch and look funkyafterawhile. But if your oak is cheap and a perfectionist then just do an 4"butcherblock Oak top with a couple of coats of marine spar varnish. And ifyoureally get going on the project then we can talk about wood inlays (anicefly pattern in exotic woods and brass would add lots of class to theproject). Last thing - light - put the bench by a window - a big window andhave lots of lights for working in the evening. This should be one ofyourprime concerns in your shop. Regards Chris On Sun, 1 Nov 1998 12:53:32 EST, Turbotrk@aol.com wrote: To the list, I am in the process of transforming a room of my house into a "RodMakingRoom" to build my first bamboo rod. I would like to start with thework tablethat I will be using. What does the list think should be required asfar asheight, length, width if they had their druthers. I know this soundslike astupid question but, not having actually done a lot of planing, itseems therewould be a correct position for perfect planing. Also, what shouldthe topsurface be? I have heard that plexiglass would be good. I have aperfectionists attitude and do not want to start unless all isperfect. Second question: is there any reason not to use clear red oak forroughplaning forms? It is considerably cheaper then maple in my neck ofthewoods. soon to be a rod builderstuart miller Regards Chrischris,i agree, artificial light is important, but the light of day, god's (orgoddess's) light, is even more important. have built a coupla graphiterods, and could only see properly, with a large picture window facingsouthwest(esp. if working in the early am and all afternoon)..you cansee things which will TORTURE your perfectionist eye, believe me!jean (aka bacon@idt.net) from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Nov 4 03:18:50 1998 Subject: Re: Re: (WAS) Perfectionist, now workbench To all "perfectionists",On returning home from Montana I decided to clean up my rod shop (9'x10'w/ i2' ceiling on high part of shed roof). Wow! I found stuff that i've beenlooking for for 20 years- some to throw out and some to use. Of courseI'vebackslid already. It's getting harder to find things and it's only been amonth since the clean up.Hank(confused in rod shop) Woolman. from jhewitt@cmn.net Wed Nov 4 06:14:11 1998 Subject: problems Is there something wrong with the list?? Not recieving anything?? from MICK@welfen-netz.com Wed Nov 4 07:26:22 1998 Server (v3.00.28 AS-0098319) forat Wed, 4 Nov 1998 14:18:18 +0100 [195.143.56.1] with SMTP(MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Wed, 04 Nov1998 14:21:15 +0100 Subject: silk order Hi Listthe silk Jon Lintvet ordered for us arrived in Europe and I'ld say it'll lokk tremendous on a honey coloured bamboo. Thanks to John.Michael from arnold_jeff@hotmail.com Wed Nov 4 08:03:13 1998 Wed, 04 Nov 1998 05:34:34 PST Subject: Test, is there problems with the list? I have unsubscribed and resubscribed with no confirmations of either. There aren't any messages going through at all. Can someone respond off list (assuming the problem is in my set) with any suggestions. Thanks,Jeff______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Nov 4 08:43:09 1998 Subject: Is list down again Is the list off again if so please let me know.bret from paul.york@noble.net Wed Nov 4 10:26:23 1998 (5.5.2232.9) Subject: Test? from harry37@epix.net Wed Nov 4 11:08:51 1998 SMTP id MAA28222 Subject: test from MICK@welfen-netz.com Wed Nov 4 13:10:24 1998 [195.143.56.1] with SMTP(MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Wed, 04 Nov1998 20:10:27 +0100 Subject: Re: test am I kicked off? or is it just a "lean period"?Michael Greg Kuntz wrote: from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Nov 4 13:24:42 1998 (modemcable44.174.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: Spey rod taper request BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_tg+1qls4gLLBP7sIVv+VHg)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_tg+1qls4gLLBP7sIVv+VHg) BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_Qkw2jLcV0PY4ObBtOeVCUA)" --Boundary_(ID_Qkw2jLcV0PY4ObBtOeVCUA) Does anyone have a taper for a fairly light line spey rod? Ideally,something like a 12-13 ft rod for 7-8 wt would be much appreciated. Many thanks Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca --Boundary_(ID_Qkw2jLcV0PY4ObBtOeVCUA) anyone have a taper for a fairly light line spey rod? Ideally, something = 12-13 ft rod for 7-8 wt would be much appreciated. thanks Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca --Boundary_(ID_Qkw2jLcV0PY4ObBtOeVCUA)-- --Boundary_(ID_tg+1qls4gLLBP7sIVv+VHg) mail).vcf" BEGIN:VCARDVERSION:2.1N:Nantel;Richard;;;FN:Richard Nantel (E-mail)ORG:Le groupe MENTOR;TITLE:TEL;WORK;VOICE:(514) 393- 3292TEL;HOME;VOICE:(514) 485-2287TEL;PAGER;VOICE:[1] (514) 111- 1111TEL;WORK;FAX:(514) 393-1483ADR;WORK:;;4374 Old Orchard Avenue;Monteal;Quebec;H4A 3B4;CanadaLABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:4374 Old Orchard =Avenue=3D0D=3D0AMonteal, Quebec H4A 3B4=3D0D=3D0ACanadaADR;HOME:;;4374 Old Orchard Avenue;Monteal;Quebec;H4A 3B4;CanadaLABEL;HOME;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:4374 Old Orchard =Avenue=3D0D=3D0AMonteal, Quebec H4A 3B4=3D0D=3D0ACanadaEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:richard.nantel@videotron.caREV:19980514T133343ZEND:VCARD --Boundary_(ID_tg+1qls4gLLBP7sIVv+VHg)-- from jourdoktorn@pilot.stjarntv.se Wed Nov 4 13:52:23 1998 with ESMTP id AAA6979 for ;Wed, 4 Nov 1998 20:46:30 +0100 Subject: Re: test Greg,you are in. I read you.Jan Nystrom Michael Mèller wrote: am I kicked off? or is it just a "lean period"?Michael Greg Kuntz wrote: from plantboy@siu.edu Wed Nov 4 14:18:32 1998 saluki-mail.siu.edu (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with SMTP id OAA16178 for; Subject: Beginner questions Greetings list! My name is Eric Adams. I'm a graduate student in Plant Biology atSouthernIllinois University, Carbondale. I'm looking forward to posting/reading onthis list. I've been curious about making some bamboo rods for some time now. I'vealready built a couple graphite rods and am thinking seriously about doinga6-7ft 3/4 wt small trout stream bamboo rod. I've read a little about some of the equipment necessary for rodproduction.I'm a poor graduate student and obviously can't pop for the $300 planingforms and other expensive equipment. I am curious if anyone ever sellsoldstuff for low costs or if there are cheap ways to make some of theequipment. Right now I'm only looking at building 2-4 rods. Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Eric from dhaftel@att.com Wed Nov 4 14:24:03 1998 sender att.com!dhaftel (att.com!dhaftel); Wed Nov 4 14:16 EST 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2 sol2) (5.5.2232.9) Subject: RE: test I received your message. I guess we're in a "thin" stretch. Dennis -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: test am I kicked off? or is it just a "lean period"?Michael Greg Kuntz wrote: from jkallo@midwest.net Wed Nov 4 14:53:54 1998 Subject: Re: Beginner questions Hey, noone tell him anything! He went to the White this weekend and leftmesulking here in town with a new rod and no fish to catch with it. Seriously Eric, if you have time I'll be doing rod work this evening if youwant to stop on by--let me know via private email. I guess things are back up with the list. Was it down or was it simply aslow 24 hours? Joe At 02:18 PM 11/4/98 -0800, you wrote:Greetings list! My name is Eric Adams. I'm a graduate student in Plant Biology atSouthernIllinois University, Carbondale. I'm looking forward to posting/reading onthis list. I've been curious about making some bamboo rods for some time now. I'vealready built a couple graphite rods and am thinking seriously about doinga6-7ft 3/4 wt small trout stream bamboo rod. I've read a little about some of the equipment necessary for rodproduction.I'm a poor graduate student and obviously can't pop for the $300 planingforms and other expensive equipment. I am curious if anyone ever sellsoldstuff for low costs or if there are cheap ways to make some of theequipment. Right now I'm only looking at building 2-4 rods. Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Eric Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Nov 4 14:56:04 1998 Wed, 4 Nov 1998 14:52:37 -0600 Subject: Re: Beginner questions Eric,Both of the following list members maintain lists of used rodmakingtools,but I don't think there are any forms listed right now. Where are you? Maybesomeone on the list, (not to mention any names, but don't we have alistmemberwho's a graduate student in philosophy pretty close to Eric?) could giveyou alittle advice, or loan you some tools Jon Lintvet Russ Gooding Hope this helps, happy posting,Harry Boyd Eric Adams wrote: My name is Eric Adams. I'm a graduate student in Plant Biology atSouthernIllinois University, Carbondale. from jhewitt@cmn.net Wed Nov 4 15:11:16 1998 Subject: [Fwd: Hendryx Rod] BA754B8F086B7B17C197B6F6" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- BA754B8F086B7B17C197B6F6 --------------BA754B8F086B7B17C197B6F6 Subject: Hendryx Rod To all...I'm new to your list, and find the information and banter fascinating aswell as informative. Recently I recieved a rod for restoration that Iknow nothing about. I hope someone will be able to help me put a historyon this rod.The rod is a "HENDRYX". It is a 9'4" 3/2. The bamboo has been flamedto a deep rich color. Windings are brown tipped in black. The cork gripis 7 1/2 inches long and the DL sliding band reel seat is 3 1/2 incheslong. The rod has no writing or decals on the bamboo. However, on thereel seat sliding band is "PAT. FEB 1921". Then on the butt cap is:HENDRYXtrade markMade in U.S.A.7575Other than Missing a hook keeper and a stripping guide the rod is inremarkably good shape. Any information concerning HENDRYX bamboo rodswould be extremely helpful. Thanks!!John H. --------------BA754B8F086B7B17C197B6F6-- from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Wed Nov 4 15:42:56 1998 Subject: Re: Beginner questions Joe,I E-Mailed Mike and Jerry this morning and Mike said that there serverproblems again at wustl. I thought everyone was at the polls yesterday.Either voting or working them. Glad you replied to him Joe as I was going to tell him to look you up ifhe didn't already know you. Dick Fuhrman from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Wed Nov 4 15:47:53 1998 Subject: Beginner questions Eric,Several list members use wooden planing forms exclusively. Metal formsaren't necessary. A good hardwood is Rock Maple, especially if youronly planning on making 2 - 4 rods. A good source of answers to questions is the archives on Jerry Foster'shomepage. Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Nov 4 15:53:05 1998 Subject: Re: Beginner questions In a message dated 11/4/98 8:24:32 PM, you wrote: That's what we all said. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Nov 4 17:09:09 1998 Thu, 5 Nov 1998 07:08:42 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Beginner questions Greetings list! I've been curious about making some bamboo rods for some time now. I'vealready built a couple graphite rods and am thinking seriously aboutdoing a6-7ft 3/4 wt small trout stream bamboo rod. I've read a little about some of the equipment necessary for rodproduction.I'm a poor graduate student and obviously can't pop for the $300 planingforms and other expensive equipment. I am curious if anyone ever sellsoldstuff for low costs or if there are cheap ways to make some of theequipment. Right now I'm only looking at building 2-4 rods. Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Eric Eric,Come in spinner! (old Aussie greeting to people wanting only a "couple" of goes at two-up ;-) )You don't need to spend a fortune, use wooden forms, get a used 9-1/2 plane a couple of culms of bamboo, dial mic, depth gauge ,a PVC pipe forthe dipping tank and an open mind. 4 rods..... heh, heh, heh. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Nov 4 17:10:56 1998 Subject: BBFR magazine Had a nice talk with Mark Metcalfe today and he said we should all bewearingsmiles on our faces soon as the J&A issue should be along shortly. Alsoforanyone that thought they received an invite to re-subscribe that wasprobablyyour initial invoice that wasn't paid yet with an offer to receiveadditionalsubscription at a discount. BretIf someone has any questions about mine and Marks lengthy conversationtodaye-mail me off list. from jaquin@netsync.net Wed Nov 4 17:15:48 1998 quartz.netsync.net(8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA29500 for ;Wed, 4 Nov 1998 18:15:44-0500 Subject: Re: Spey rod taper request Richard Nantel wrote: Does anyone have a taper for a fairly light line spey rod? Ideally,something like a 12-13 ft rod for 7-8 wt would be much appreciated. Many thanks Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca Name: Richard Nantel (E-mail).vcfPart 1.2 Type: unspecified type (application/octet-stream)Encoding: quoted-printablehi richard i would be interested in the taper also, if the rod could dodouble duty as a noodle rod drifter rig. from pdcorlis@nidc.edu Wed Nov 4 17:23:08 1998 with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 04 Nov 1998 15:23:46 -0800 Subject: Hello, my name is Phil... And I'm a bamboo e-list and BBFRaholic... yep it's amazining how "hooked" Iam on both! GoodNews about BBFR and nice to know its just a small server glitch! Phil from channer@hubwest.com Wed Nov 4 18:50:58 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A6DD135010A; Wed, 04 Nov 1998 17:52:45 MST Subject: Re: [Fwd: Hendryx Rod] At 02:10 PM 11/4/98 -0700, you wrote: To all...I'm new to your list, and find the information and banter fascinating aswell as informative. Recently I recieved a rod for restoration that Iknow nothing about. I hope someone will be able to help me put a historyon this rod.The rod is a "HENDRYX". It is a 9'4" 3/2. The bamboo has been flamedto a deep rich color. Windings are brown tipped in black. The cork gripis 7 1/2 inches long and the DL sliding band reel seat is 3 1/2 incheslong. The rod has no writing or decals on the bamboo. However, on thereel seat sliding band is "PAT. FEB 1921". Then on the butt cap is:HENDRYXtrade markMade in U.S.A.7575Other than Missing a hook keeper and a stripping guide the rod is inremarkably good shape. Any information concerning HENDRYX bamboo rodswould be extremely helpful. Thanks!!John H. John;It seems that no one knows anything about this rod. I would suggest youcontact Dick Spurr, Len Codella or Marty Keane, they are dealers in bamboorods and are more likely to know something about it than anyone else.Len'semail is len@codella.com, Dick's is spurr@kingfisher.com. I don't thinkMartin has an email. John Channer from jhewitt@cmn.net Wed Nov 4 19:28:58 1998 Subject: Re: [Fwd: Hendryx Rod] John Channer,Thanks for the names. I have done business with DickSpur in the past and should have remembered that myself. Sometimes ittakes areminder from someone else to trigger the old brain cells. This restoredrodwill be sold at our groups annual auction to benefit the Yampa River. Itwouldbe nice to have a provenence. Again thanks for your help and direction.John Hewitt. john channer wrote: At 02:10 PM 11/4/98 -0700, you wrote: To all...I'm new to your list, and find the information and banter fascinating aswell as informative. Recently I recieved a rod for restoration that Iknow nothing about. I hope someone will be able to help me put a historyon this rod.The rod is a "HENDRYX". It is a 9'4" 3/2. The bamboo has been flamedto a deep rich color. Windings are brown tipped in black. The cork gripis 7 1/2 inches long and the DL sliding band reel seat is 3 1/2 incheslong. The rod has no writing or decals on the bamboo. However, on thereel seat sliding band is "PAT. FEB 1921". Then on the butt cap is:HENDRYXtrade markMade in U.S.A.7575Other than Missing a hook keeper and a stripping guide the rod is inremarkably good shape. Any information concerning HENDRYX bamboorodswould be extremely helpful. Thanks!!John H. John;It seems that no one knows anything about this rod. I would suggest youcontact Dick Spurr, Len Codella or Marty Keane, they are dealers inbamboorods and are more likely to know something about it than anyone else.Len'semail is len@codella.com, Dick's is spurr@kingfisher.com. I don't thinkMartin has an email. John Channer from dragnfly@uniserve.com Wed Nov 4 19:37:52 1998 Subject: Re: Beginner questions Iv been offline for several months and a while back I had gotten an adress wondering if anyone has or knows the adress or phone # where I couldreachthat person. or if there is anyone else that is in Canada that could supplyme with supplys. My Canadian $ is worthless to the American $ and I dontrealy wanna pay 600 bucks for forms. from robert.kope@MCI2000.com Wed Nov 4 20:03:39 1998 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 02:03:07 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: tip-tops boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00BC_01BE081D.8175B000" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00BC_01BE081D.8175B000 I've only seen it once, but that's the only old bamboo rod I have. I've =got an E.C Powell 9' 3/2 with the tip-tops wrapped over the tube all =the way up to the loop. -- Robert Kope-----Original Message-----From: irish-george Date: Monday, November 02, 1998 10:01 PMSubject: Re: tip-tops I've never seen (or heard of) it being done as Curt described =(actually wrapping onto the tube of the tip-top). Just out of =curiosity, how common is the method Curt described? George Bourke-----Original Message-----From: Golden Witch Date: Monday, November 02, 1998 11:46 AMSubject: Re: tip-tops Hi Curt, There is a simple solution to your tip wrap problems: don't =wrap over the tube of the tip top. Simply wrap up to the edge of the =tube. This wrap is mere decoration and does not serve to help retain =the tip top. Best, Russ Golden Witch Rods - "Tools For Natural Philosophy"Golden Witch Technologies, Inc. - "The Golden Age Is Now"gwr@seanet.comhttp://www.goldenwitch.com snip My first question is basic: is there a trick to wrapping =tip-tops? In my limited experiments this is the one wrap that =invariably looks odd. The step-down from tip-top to tip section creates =a "break-point" that I haven't yet conquered. Am I particularly inept =(be kind!), or is there a trick? Should I be tapering the base of the =tip-top somehow? How? snip ------=_NextPart_000_00BC_01BE081D.8175B000 I've only seen it once, but that's = wrapped over the tube all the way up to the loop. -- Robert Kope -----Original = irish-george <irish-george@worldnet.att.n= rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= tip-topsI've never seen (or heard of) it= as Curt described (actually wrapping onto the tube of the = Just out of curiosity, how common is the method Curt =described? George Bourke =rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= tip-topsHi =Curt, = This wrap is mere decoration and does not serve to help retain = top. Best, Russ Golden Witch = "Tools For Natural Philosophy"Golden Witch = snipMy first = limited experiments this is the one wrap that invariably = =How?snip ------=_NextPart_000_00BC_01BE081D.8175B000-- from Canerods@aol.com Wed Nov 4 20:04:21 1998 Subject: Re: Beginner questions In a message dated 11/4/98 12:24:32 PM Pacific Standard Time,plantboy@siu.eduwrites: Eric, Welcome. There should be a few people close to you that can help you out. The listhasbeen acting up, so if you don't get any replies - try again in a few days. Don B. from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Nov 4 20:12:38 1998 (modemcable44.174.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Beginner questions Hi Steve, There's a place near Toronto called Grindstone Anglers that sells planingforms for $350 cdn. I got that quote in August and they mentioned therewasa two month waiting list. Their number is 905 689-0880. Alternately, youcould take good planing form plans to a machine shop and see how muchtheywould charge. That's what some of us in Montreal did and were able to getforms built for about $200 plus the price of the steel and screws. Usual disclaimer applies. Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Beginner questions Iv been offline for several months and a while back I had gotten an adress wondering if anyone has or knows the adress or phone # where I couldreachthat person. or if there is anyone else that is in Canada that could supplyme with supplys. My Canadian $ is worthless to the American $ and I dontrealy wanna pay 600 bucks for forms. from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Wed Nov 4 20:13:42 1998 with SMTP Subject: Sorry, another test. Apologies, but this is getting a little, well... You know..... Dennis Haftel from home. from teekay35@interlynx.net Wed Nov 4 20:27:31 1998 Subject: Re: Beginner questions Steve, the form maker that you referred to sells his forms throughGrindstone Anglers. You can reach them at 905-689-0880, Waterdown,Ont. ----------From: steve Subject: Re: Beginner questionsDate: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 8:35 PM Iv been offline for several months and a while back I had gotten anadress wondering if anyone has or knows the adress or phone # where I couldreachthat person. or if there is anyone else that is in Canada that couldsupplyme with supplys. My Canadian $ is worthless to the American $ and I dontrealy wanna pay 600 bucks for forms. from sjstill@iquest.net Wed Nov 4 20:48:32 1998 0000 (209.43.49.132) Subject: Wood Forms Hi All, Several list members use wooden planing forms exclusively. Metal formsaren't necessary. A good hardwood is Rock Maple, Don't overlook Locust either. I didn't know my "supplier" had a stash ofLocust available when I picked up some Rock Maple a while back. Live andlearn I guess! Steve Steve and Julie Stillabower, Indianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net from teekay35@interlynx.net Wed Nov 4 20:53:05 1998 Subject: I was off the list for two weeks My computer locked up and its been two weeks getting it cleaned up andreprogrammed. I lost nearly 500 messages on the rod makers list, so ifyou from tlongair@telusplanet.net Wed Nov 4 23:42:21 1998 release 220 ID# 0-51631U125000L125000S0V35) with ESMTP idnet 0700 Subject: care of the cane Being new to both bamboo rod making and rod fishing, I am uncertain asto the correct ways in which to maintain and fish with my rods. Arethere any thoughts as to the care and feeding of my new pet bambooflyrod.. If this is of interest to others I will post responses in aweb page for future reference, perhaps to new rod purchasers. Thanks,Terry Longair from dickay@alltel.net Thu Nov 5 06:32:22 1998 GAA08432 Subject: Re: [Fwd: Hendryx Rod] John,I saw a Hendryx 1888 Brass Reel (bait casting style) on Ebay.com. Otherthan that I know nothing about Hendryx. SorryDick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net from Molly1011@aol.com Thu Nov 5 08:41:02 1998 Subject: Re: Semi-hollow rods and tip-tops there is some information on hollow rods in "the best of the planingforum".i clamped all six strips to my bench and used a jiggle sander with roughsandpaper to remove the inside of all the six sections. to control thedepth,set a piece of piano wire on each side of the clamped down bamboo strips.when you hit the wire , you're done. my hollow sections are the width ofmysander(3 to 4 inches). the dams are about an inch. leave the ends solid(2") until .150 in the taper. go easy on the glue so as not to fill the hollowparts. it is just not that hard. hope this helps. after all i've received from the list, it is nice to finallygive back.erik from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Nov 5 09:23:34 1998 (modemcable44.174.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Semi-hollow rods and tip-tops Hi Erik, Do you need to adjust a taper when choosing to build a rod hollow? I'veheard hollow-built rods are perhaps a bit softer so the taper needs to bebeefed up a bit. If that's the case, do you really reduce the weight of arod using this technique? Very curious about this since I'm thinking ofbuilding a spey rod. Thanks Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca -----Original Message----- Molly1011@aol.com Subject: Re: Semi-hollow rods and tip-tops there is some information on hollow rods in "the best of the planingforum".i clamped all six strips to my bench and used a jiggle sander with roughsandpaper to remove the inside of all the six sections. to control thedepth,set a piece of piano wire on each side of the clamped down bamboo strips.when you hit the wire , you're done. my hollow sections are the width ofmysander(3 to 4 inches). the dams are about an inch. leave the endssolid(2") until .150 in the taper. go easy on the glue so as not to fill the hollowparts. it is just not that hard. hope this helps. after all i've received from the list, it is nice tofinallygive back.erik from plantboy@siu.edu Thu Nov 5 10:03:47 1998 saluki-mail.siu.edu (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with SMTP id KAA38924 for; Subject: beginner questions Listers, Thanks for all your encouraging comments. Nice to see such a goodresponse I ended up getting in contact with one of the listers (Joe Kallo) in my areahere. He showed me several of the basics and now I'm even more excitedabout getting started. I'll be taking it slowly, and probably askingseveral more questions. Thanks again, Eric Adams btw - TSmith and Tony Young were probably right about me building > thanacouple rods *S* from OBorge@aiss.uic.edu Thu Nov 5 10:35:29 1998 Subject: Rodbuilding Machines for sale RODMAKERS,I have no personal interest in this it is just a FYI.I saw this on:http://www.flyfish.com/cgibin/bin/ldisplay.cgi?forsale His email:email mrbamboo@quick.com Paul Whitely -11/04/98- i am selling all of my rodbuilding machines(bamboo mill, drill/mill, lathe, printing machine, oven, pre-miller,wrapper,celo-wrap machine) along with cutter, cane (approx 100pieces), ferrules,bags, silk thread, guides, cork, etc... if you would like it, or know ofanyone who is getting into building, please let them know. It all goes Olaf BorgeSystems Programmer/System SoftwareUniversity of Illinois/AISS/CNO312/996-5212 from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Nov 5 12:12:47 1998 via smap (4.1) 10:17:43 PST Subject: RE: Tiptops I've never seen (or heard of) it being done as Curt described (actually >wrapping onto the tube of the tip-top). Just out of curiosity, how common is >the method Curt described? English made rods like Hardy or Ogden Smith have wrapped over tiptops,but the tiptops they used are slightly different in that they have a short tube with support legs that run from the agate lined circle to the base of the tube and then on down the cane for a 1/2". They are wrapped over to the point that they are soldered to the tube. Thus the tube is wrapped over by about 10-15 turns.Other than those I don't recall seeing wrapped over tubes either. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from paul.york@noble.net Thu Nov 5 13:09:28 1998 (5.5.2232.9) Subject: RE: Wood Forms Are woden forms tapped in the same way that metal form are? I'mconsideringmaking a new push / pull type form. would there be a problem with thepinsand bolt threads wearing after time? Paul ----------From: Steve Stillabower Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 1998 8:48 PM Subject: Wood Forms Hi All, Several list members use wooden planing forms exclusively. Metalformsaren't necessary. A good hardwood is Rock Maple, Don't overlook Locust either. I didn't know my "supplier" had a stash ofLocust available when I picked up some Rock Maple a while back. Liveandlearn I guess! Steve Steve and Julie Stillabower, Indianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Thu Nov 5 13:15:32 1998 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id IAA13757 for ;Fri, 6 Nov 1998 08:15:32+1300 Subject: Re: [Fwd: Hendryx Rod] John, One of my reference books( AJ Campbell) refers to Andrew Hendryx as aConnecticut tackle maker from the late 1880's to 1919 when the companywassold to Winchester Repeating Arms company .The reference to themsuggeststhey were mass producers of low cost reels over this period , althoughtheydid have a few up market models . They sold through catalogues such asMontgomery Ward.Campbell suggests they only made reels but as a sideline to their mainbusiness that was making bird and parrot cages.A totally useless piece of information is that the patent number whichappears on many of their reels is actually a patent for aviary restrainingdevices. Although Campbell suggests they only made reels , but given theirknowledgeof bamboo for bird cages they may have experimented with rods , they mayhave had some other rodmaker make rods for them to market under theirownbrand. If this is correct the true maker may be harder to ascertain butgiven that their reels were mainly low cost it is likely their rods werethesame.At the very least this would suggest you may have a rod that is at least 80years old , but may be of a lower price bracket at the time it wasproduced. trust this is of interest Iank At 06:24 AM 5/11/98 -0600, you wrote:John,I saw a Hendryx 1888 Brass Reel (bait casting style) on Ebay.com. Otherthan that I know nothing about Hendryx. SorryDick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net from Turbotrk@aol.com Thu Nov 5 13:35:15 1998 Subject: Re: [Fwd: Hendryx Rod] Mark Evans, please respond to me off the list. I met your dad today. Whatasmall world. Stuart MillerSoon to be a rod builder from Anachemrpo@aol.com Thu Nov 5 14:10:09 1998 Subject: Ian Kearneys info (was RE: Hendryx Rod) In a message dated 98-11-05 14:21:47 EST, Ian K. writes: . I enjoyed it immensely. Russ L. > from jhewitt@cmn.net Thu Nov 5 14:31:35 1998 Subject: Re: [Fwd: Hendryx Rod] Ian,Thanks for the info on Hendryx. The rod itself appears to have beenwellmade and well wrapped. It doesn't appear to have been refinished at anytime.Maybe the Hendryx company was trying to branch out into the somewhatlucrativebusiness at the time (early 1900's) of fishing rods. I suppose it's quitepossible that they asked a maker of bamboo rods to try making a few andprovidedhim (or her) with the materials to do the job. Maybe that's why HENDRYXwasstamped on the reel seat.I guess I could speculate until the cows came home, nevertheless thisis agood solid rod that's worth restoring, or I guess the true term would berefinishing since I really don't know the original specs. Anyway I'll try togive it as much original flavor as I can.Again thanks for the info.John Hewittjhewitt@cmn.net Ian Kearney wrote: John, One of my reference books( AJ Campbell) refers to Andrew Hendryx as aConnecticut tackle maker from the late 1880's to 1919 when thecompany wassold to Winchester Repeating Arms company .The reference to themsuggeststhey were mass producers of low cost reels over this period , althoughtheydid have a few up market models . They sold through catalogues such asMontgomery Ward.Campbell suggests they only made reels but as a sideline to their mainbusiness that was making bird and parrot cages.A totally useless piece of information is that the patent number whichappears on many of their reels is actually a patent for aviary restrainingdevices.Although Campbell suggests they only made reels , but given theirknowledgeof bamboo for bird cages they may have experimented with rods , theymayhave had some other rodmaker make rods for them to market under theirownbrand. If this is correct the true maker may be harder to ascertain butgiven that their reels were mainly low cost it is likely their rods werethesame.At the very least this would suggest you may have a rod that is at least80years old , but may be of a lower price bracket at the time it wasproduced. trust this is of interest Iank from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Nov 5 14:37:24 1998 (modemcable44.174.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Ian Kearneys info (was RE: Hendryx Rod) Does that mean their rods were for the birds? Richard -----Original Message----- Anachemrpo@aol.com Subject: Ian Kearneys info (was RE: Hendryx Rod) from stpete@netten.net Thu Nov 5 15:54:57 1998 cedar.netten.net(8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA28122 for ;Thu, 5 Nov 1998 15:54:55 Subject: Re: Wood Forms Paul, I'll be honest and say that I must have a heavy hand because the hardmaple forms I made stripped out some of the 'pull' threads almostimmediately. I've since heard that you can drop super glue into thethreads (WITHOUT the bolts in them!!!) and that will make the threadsmore durable. Others have used their wood forms for several rods so Isuppose they can last awhile. Your other options are:a) use nuts recessed in the opposite side of the forms to pull the bolts against,b) make METAL forms. If you have access to a drill press they aren'tthat hard to make and they'll last longer. Check out Thomas Penrose'sinstructions via Rodmaker's or the Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine. (Theissues that are already out!) Paul York wrote: Are woden forms tapped in the same way that metal form are? I'mconsideringmaking a new push / pull type form. would there be a problem with thepinsand bolt threads wearing after time? Paul ----------From: Steve Stillabower Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 1998 8:48 PM Subject: Wood Forms Hi All, Several list members use wooden planing forms exclusively. Metalformsaren't necessary. A good hardwood is Rock Maple, Don't overlook Locust either. I didn't know my "supplier" had a stash ofLocust available when I picked up some Rock Maple a while back. Liveandlearn I guess! Steve Steve and Julie Stillabower, Indianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net > from bills@nwlink.com Thu Nov 5 16:20:18 1998 Subject: Epoxy removal boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE08C7.0F6F0240" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE08C7.0F6F0240 Rodbuilders,I recently had to remove a newly mounted N/S super Z ferule that did not =seat properly. Popped right off with a little heat but about 1/8 inch =of epoxy was left in the far depths of the female half of the ferule. Is =there a way to remove the pesky left over dry epoxy without destroying =an otherwise good ferule? The epoxy is 2-Ton Devcon. Some sound advice=(to fix my mistake) will be appreciated.Bill Strelke ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE08C7.0F6F0240 Rodbuilders,I recently had to remove a newly= heat but about 1/8 inch of epoxy was left in the far depths of the = of the ferule. Is there a way to remove the pesky left over dry epoxy = advice (to fix my mistake) will be appreciated.Bill =Strelke ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE08C7.0F6F0240-- from paul.york@noble.net Thu Nov 5 16:43:17 1998 (5.5.2232.9) Subject: RE: Wood Forms Rick,I checked out his site the other day. Looks pretty straight forward. Had tore-read the section on filing the 60* bevel, it was a little confusing onthe many adjustments you've got to make in order to the taper over thelength of the form. Thanks for your help. Paul ----------From: Rick Crenshaw Sent: Thursday, November 5, 1998 3:51 PM Subject: Re: Wood Forms Paul, I'll be honest and say that I must have a heavy hand because the hardmaple forms I made stripped out some of the 'pull' threads almostimmediately. I've since heard that you can drop super glue into thethreads (WITHOUT the bolts in them!!!) and that will make the threadsmore durable. Others have used their wood forms for several rods so Isuppose they can last awhile. Your other options are:a) use nuts recessed in the opposite side of the forms to pull the bolts against,b) make METAL forms. If you have access to a drill press theyaren'tthat hard to make and they'll last longer. Check out ThomasPenrose'sinstructions via Rodmaker's or the Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine. (Theissues that are already out!) Paul York wrote: Are woden forms tapped in the same way that metal form are? I'mconsideringmaking a new push / pull type form. would there be a problem with thepinsand bolt threads wearing after time? Paul ----------From: Steve Stillabower Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 1998 8:48 PM Subject: Wood Forms Hi All, Several list members use wooden planing forms exclusively. Metalformsaren't necessary. A good hardwood is Rock Maple, Don't overlook Locust either. I didn't know my "supplier" had a stashofLocust available when I picked up some Rock Maple a while back. Liveandlearn I guess! Steve Steve and Julie Stillabower, Indianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net > > from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Nov 5 17:05:47 1998 via smap (4.1) 15:11:37 PST Subject: RE: Epoxy Removal Bill, I don't know of a product that will soften and remove dried epoxy (maybe lacquer thinner over time?), but could you just leave the glue there. If it's 1/8" and is confined to the area you described it sounds like it could be regarded as an extra thick water seal. Excess heat in this area would surely melt your solder at the water seal. The good news is that you don't have an epoxy residue on the inside walls of the ferrule which would be a lot tougher to deal with when mounting the ferrule. Good luck! Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from penr0295@bendnet.com Thu Nov 5 17:15:55 1998 Subject: Re: Epoxy removal There is such a thing as epoxy remover, and I have had some limitedsuccessusing it to remove dried epoxy from clothing. I believe that if it wereleft in the ferrule to soak, the epoxy could be removed, but it might takesome time. Tom Penrose Rodbuilders,I recently had to remove a newly mounted N/S super Z ferule that did notseat properly. Popped right >off with a little heat but about 1/8 inch ofepoxy was left in the far depths of the female half of the ferule. >Is therea way to remove the pesky left over dry epoxy without destroying anotherwise good ferule? >The epoxy is 2-Ton Devcon. Some sound advice(tofix my mistake) will be appreciated.Bill Strelke from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Nov 5 17:52:21 1998 Fri, 6 Nov 1998 07:51:50 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: RE: Wood Forms On Thu, 5 Nov 1998, Paul York wrote: Are woden forms tapped in the same way that metal form are? I'mconsideringmaking a new push / pull type form. would there be a problem with thepinsand bolt threads wearing after time? Paul Paul,take a look at my home page. The form described there is what I've been using and I can't really see myself ever "upgrading" to metal ones.It uses a push pull method but with a single bolt for each station. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from chris@artistree.com Thu Nov 5 17:55:46 1998 Subject: Re: Epoxy removal I use acetone and a small file. Think the heat applied to release theferrule helps break down the epoxy into something more easily attacked found the rougher the inside the better the hold for the epoxy when youdo reattach. There might be better ways but this has seem to work fairlywell for me in the past.-- Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail:chris@artistree.com Rodbuilders,I recently had to remove a newly mounted N/S super Z ferule that didnotseat properly. Popped right >off with a little heat but about 1/8 inch ofepoxy was left in the far depths of the female half of the ferule. >Istherea way to remove the pesky left over dry epoxy without destroying anotherwise good ferule? >The epoxy is 2-Ton Devcon. Some sound advice(tofix my mistake) will be appreciated.Bill Strelke from LECLAIR123@aol.com Thu Nov 5 17:56:14 1998 Subject: Re: test I'm reading you load and clear. Dave L. from stpete@netten.net Thu Nov 5 18:01:13 1998 cedar.netten.net(8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA07092 for ;Thu, 5 Nov 1998 18:01:02 Subject: Re: Wood Forms Paul, I have a better suggestion on making the tapered groove. Beg, borrow,steal a set of feeler gauges. Set one end of the forms to about .050".Then increase each station by .005", so the next station is .055", thenext is .060", etc. Or you can set it per Penrose's technique. Now check out Bruce Conner's directions for making wood forms. Use hisblock/jig for the 60* lathe tool. Get the 5/8" or 3/4" size. Heck, buytwo, they are only about $4 or $5 at any machine shop supply and can behad locally - almost guarantee that. Use a router to put a slot in ahard maple block and put another piece of wood to cinch it down and tapset screws to adjust the jig. Make sure the tool is precisely 90* tothe sole of the block/jig. Machining a steel block would be best andcan be used to maintain the grooves over the life of the finished forms. Make the tapered groove the same as the instructions on Bruce's page. Use cutting oil, that makes it easier to cut without chattering. Don'ttry to cut too much at one time. Move the lathe bit deeper just a hairat a time. Better to adjust it every 2 or 3 passes than to cut toodeep. It works great and I think it's much cleaner and easier than the file,though the file method will work. You just have soooo many adjustmentswith the file method. Rick Paul York wrote: Rick,I checked out his site the other day. Looks pretty straight forward. Hadtore-read the section on filing the 60* bevel, it was a little confusing onthe many adjustments you've got to make in order to the taper over thelength of the form. Thanks for your help. Paul from brookside.rod@juno.com Thu Nov 5 18:12:00 1998 19:11:19 EST Subject: Re: use and care of the cane rod On Wed, 04 Nov 1998 22:40:30 -0700 Terry Longairwrites:.... Are there any thoughts as to the care and feeding of my new petbambooflyrod...... Thanks, Terry Longair Terry; I have a short note on the subject of the use and care of the bamboo flyrod located on my site.You could find it at http://home.onestop.net/brookside/usecare.html ifinterested. Cordially; Gary Dabrowski end ___________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno athttp://www.juno.com/getjuno.htmlor call Juno at (800) 654- JUNO [654-5866] from gwbarnes@gwi.net Thu Nov 5 18:13:05 1998 Subject: Re: Wood Forms I've made a lot of wood forms and never had any thread problems. I use1/4"x28cap screws, pay particular attention to using the correct drill size andstartthe threads with a tap holder in the drill press so the tap is square to theform and wont "bugger" up the drill hole. I've used these forma with someThomas tapers with very sharp swells at the grip. These required an extrasetof push pull screws but still didn't strip. George Barnes Paul York wrote: Are woden forms tapped in the same way that metal form are? I'mconsideringmaking a new push / pull type form. would there be a problem with thepinsand bolt threads wearing after time? Paul ----------From: Steve Stillabower Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 1998 8:48 PM Subject: Wood Forms Hi All, Several list members use wooden planing forms exclusively. Metalformsaren't necessary. A good hardwood is Rock Maple, Don't overlook Locust either. I didn't know my "supplier" had a stash ofLocust available when I picked up some Rock Maple a while back. Liveandlearn I guess! Steve Steve and Julie Stillabower, Indianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net > from FlyTyr@southshore.com Thu Nov 5 18:33:29 1998 (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP 18:34:47 -0600 Subject: Re: Wood Forms Just a suggestion,Insert metal "T" nuts in the screw holes. I have installed them two ways.One wayis to drill the size hole for the tap size, counter bore the side for the 'T"nutand run the tap through the 'T' nut threading the wood. The other way isdrillingthe proper size hole for the "T" nut and just inserting it in the hole. I haveused them in many other projects. You can get them in most hardwarestores indifferent sizes.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com George W. Barnes wrote: I've made a lot of wood forms and never had any thread problems. I use1/4"x28cap screws, pay particular attention to using the correct drill size andstartthe threads with a tap holder in the drill press so the tap is square totheform and wont "bugger" up the drill hole. I've used these forma with someThomas tapers with very sharp swells at the grip. These required anextra setof push pull screws but still didn't strip. George Barnes Paul York wrote: Are woden forms tapped in the same way that metal form are? I'mconsideringmaking a new push / pull type form. would there be a problem with thepinsand bolt threads wearing after time? Paul ----------From: Steve Stillabower Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 1998 8:48 PM Subject: Wood Forms Hi All, Several list members use wooden planing forms exclusively. Metalformsaren't necessary. A good hardwood is Rock Maple, Don't overlook Locust either. I didn't know my "supplier" had a stashofLocust available when I picked up some Rock Maple a while back. Liveandlearn I guess! Steve Steve and Julie Stillabower, Indianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net > > from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Nov 5 18:44:54 1998 Subject: Re: RODMAKERS Adminstrativia Michael and all,I've sent several posts to rodmakers but I don't see 'em when I downloadthe rodmakers mail. I am getting a few posts but I don't believe I'mgettingall of 'em. Should I unsubscribe and resubscribe?Regards, Hank. from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Thu Nov 5 18:48:00 1998 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id NAA00553 for ;Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:47:54+1300 Subject: RE: Wood Forms Paul, I use wooden forms to Tony's design and they have been fine for half adozenrods. I see no reason to get steel ones , but I probably will one day . Usea dowling jig( I picked one up at the flea market for $10) for the holes ,it makes it quite easy for lining things up. The barrel bolts and nuts canbe obtained via Woodcraft for about $7 if they do not have them at thelocalhardware store . Ian K. At 07:51 AM 6/11/98 +0800, you wrote:On Thu, 5 Nov 1998, Paul York wrote: Are woden forms tapped in the same way that metal form are? I'mconsideringmaking a new push / pull type form. would there be a problem with thepinsand bolt threads wearing after time? Paul Paul,take a look at my home page. The form described there is what I've been using and I can't really see myself ever "upgrading" to metal ones.It uses a push pull method but with a single bolt for each station. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from sjstill@iquest.net Thu Nov 5 18:51:07 1998 0000 (209.43.55.179) Subject: Copies? Has anyone noticed if you are seeing your own posts back to the list? Thelast test message I sent did not get sent back to me (that make sense?).Just wondering.... Steve Steve and Julie Stillabower, Indianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net from sjstill@iquest.net Thu Nov 5 19:04:37 1998 (209.43.55.179) Subject: Re: Copies? Well, it worked that time. Pay no attention to me.... Steve and Julie Stillabower, Indianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net from maxs@geocities.co.jp Thu Nov 5 19:28:07 1998 geocities.co.jp(8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id KAA03969 for; Fri, 6Nov 1998 10:27:52 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Two of them I experimented and completed All in One Sir. D type Dip & Drytube with heater box, AND with Auto Drain Speed Adjuster. I took thesuggestions from everyone and especially, of Sir D about drain speed of2"(about 5 cm) per minutes at the surface. I am using 100cm lengthPVC. So, if I can control the drain to take 20 minutes with samespeed, it may be all right to dip wrapped blank.I made a big clothes pin (for drying laudry) using two pieces of woodblocks binding them by rubber bands. Three bands wraps five times overone edge of the wood blocks. I screwed the one of wood blocks on aboad. A pet bottle (clear coke's bottle) hanged down from the upperwood block. A drain hose coming from the bottom of the PVC tube goesinto this pet bottle. I clipped the drian hose by a mid sized binderclip (sold as Lion Binder clip) which is placed betwen two wood blocks. Drain started, the pet bottle is storing drained varnish inside andgetting heavier, the pet bottle starts pressing down the wood lever andbinder clip, the binder clip is going to open the pinch of drain hose,varnish flows a little more than before according to the weight of thebottle. Thus, drain ratio was kept even at both phases of start andend. The flow of varnish is also controlled by changing the width ofpinching by the binder clip. You can use two clips vinyl hose, one is todecide the maximum flow, the other is to adjust the speed.I updated the drawing and pictures of my web. Please make a look. If someone is interested in receiving the drawing in excel originalfile, please contact me offline. Thanks, Max-- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from maxs@geocities.co.jp Thu Nov 5 19:29:05 1998 geocities.co.jp(8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id KAA04968 for; Fri, 6Nov 1998 10:29:01 +0900 (JST) Subject: [Fwd: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight] 1B13023DB5D7FA63228A64B8" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 1B13023DB5D7FA63228A64B8 This is resend since this did not come back to me thru listproc.-- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html-------------- 1B13023DB5D7FA63228A64B8 Subject: Re: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight SalarFly@aol.com wrote: I think it would be interesting to do a weight distrubution graphalong with a stress curve to see if the way the weight isdistributed has anything to do with the perception of weightwhen casting. My feeling is that stiffer "faster" rods will beperceived as being heavier than slower rods. Darryl Hi Darryl, It is an interesting topic. To my understanding of stress curve, the weight of each 5"(1" in Hexrod)interval of the rod has already been distributed and aggregated intomoment (and multiplied by factor of 4). IMHO, the difference of the peception is nothing other thanmoment matter. The stress curve model (of Garrison and Wayne) does notconsider the bend while rod is being casted forward and backword. Itsassumption is that an entire rod is moving straight (to perpendiculardirection to a rod). Since slower rods tends to bend much while casting, the perceptionreceives the moment with less length of the rod (unbend portion). Onthe other hand, faster or (harder) rod tends to be rather straight whilecasting. It would make you feel more force of moment derived fromlonger distance (of a straight portion of the rod) multiplied withweight and acceleration. sections after a rod is completed? If you try to use logical (orhypothetical approximation) weight, it is the direct proportional figureof the dimension of the rod at each 5" point, which implies the taper. So, the perception of the rod action is related with the bend derivedfromthe taper, isn't it? Max-- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html --------------1B13023DB5D7FA63228A64B8-- from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Nov 5 19:29:13 1998 Subject: Re: RE: Semi-hollow rods and tip-tops Richard and Erik,I've just built 2 2 pc. rods and 1 3pc rod. The 3 pc has the mid and thebutt hollow and the 2 pc. rods (same taper) have only the butt hollowed.The 3pc. rod is faster(stiffer). I made no allowance in cane for the ferrules inthe 3 pc. I just used the same taper as the 2pc . rods. When I hollow I justplane the inner apex of each strip (all strips taped together) and leave nodams anywhere. I try to plane down to the point where the planed area is1/3the width of the enamel side of the strip. I thin down the Urac 185 morethanusual and use a small paint brush to apply sparingly so as not to fill thehollow with glue. I hope this doesn't confuse you more than it does me. :- )Regards,Hank from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Nov 5 19:39:57 1998 Subject: Re: Re: RODMAKERS Adminstrativia Michael,I've received my own post to you so I guess all is up and running again.Thanks,Hank. from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Thu Nov 5 19:46:55 1998 Subject: Re: Epoxy removal At 14:17 05/11/98 -0800, you wrote:Rodbuilders,I recently had to remove a newly mounted N/S super Z ferule that did notseat properly. Popped right off with a little heat but about 1/8 inch ofepoxy was left in the far depths of the female half of the ferule. Is therea way to remove the pesky left over dry epoxy without destroying anotherwise good ferule? The epoxy is 2-Ton Devcon. Some sound advice (tofix my mistake) will be appreciated.Bill Strelke Bill, Had the same problem a couple of times over the years. Found a reamerworksgood to remove the stuff left along the sides of the ferrule and a dentaltool and some picking got the stuff @ the bottom. Grind the reamer so thatit nearly has a flat end on it. Some of the reamers come with a fairly longtapered section ahead of the flutes. The reamer will seat further down theferrule if ground down. The dental tool looks a little like a hockey stickwith a elbow of about 0.150" and a very sharp cutting edge. Rotating itseems to get the last of the epoxy out of the ferrule. Don from swilson1@WHC.NET Thu Nov 5 19:56:10 1998 ; Subject: Re: Two of them Why can't I come up with ideas like this? (Please, no responses). Max Satoh wrote: Drain started, the pet bottle is storing drained varnish inside andgetting heavier, the pet bottle starts pressing down the wood lever andbinder clip, the binder clip is going to open the pinch of drain hose,varnish flows a little more than before according to the weight of thebottle. Thanks, Max--Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from CPETERS@rivertrade.com Thu Nov 5 21:18:55 1998 with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 05 Nov 1998 16:46:54 -0600 Subject: Re: Epoxy removal Building on Bill's question: I had my first crisis last night while fittingthe ferrules on myinaugural rod. Both male and female ferrules creeped on me. I used ShellEpon 8128 resin and3164 curing agent. The epoxy - after 3 days curing seemed more likerubber cement than epoxy.Did I not wait long enough? Is the Epon a poor choice for ferrules? Couldmy formulation bewrong (1:1)? A related question that occurs to me: how many makers pin their ferrules? I had a bamboo rodmade for me two years ago and last year the female ferrule broke free. The maker expressedfrustration with the performance of glues in general and swore to pin allferrules in the future( I should add that he graciously repaired the rod to original condition). Was he just blowingoff steam or is that a solution others are considering? "Bill Strelke" 11/05/98 04:17PM >>>Rodbuilders,I recently had to remove a newly mounted N/S super Z ferule that did notseat properly. Poppedright off with a little heat but about 1/8 inch of epoxy was left in the fardepths of thefemale half of the ferule. Is there a way to remove the pesky left over dryepoxy withoutdestroying an otherwise good ferule? The epoxy is 2-Ton Devcon. Somesound advice (to fix mymistake) will be appreciated.Bill Strelke from CPETERS@rivertrade.com Thu Nov 5 21:19:28 1998 with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 05 Nov 1998 16:53:24 -0600 Subject: Re: RE: Wood Forms I built wooden forms recently and used threaded inserts on the receivingside of the bolt/nutassembly. I don't recall what they are called, but it looks like a nut thatis threaded insideand out. I drilled the holes slightly overside and screwed one in each hole. Maybe the pullingaction of the bolts will break down the wood/nut connection over time,but I'm hoping that itwill prolong the life of the forms. Worked great on rod one! Paul York 11/05/98 01:09PM >>>Are woden forms tapped in the same way that metal form are? I'mconsideringmaking a new push / pull type form. would there be a problem with thepinsand bolt threads wearing after time? Paul ----------From: Steve Stillabower Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 1998 8:48 PM Subject: Wood Forms Hi All, Several list members use wooden planing forms exclusively. Metalformsaren't necessary. A good hardwood is Rock Maple, Don't overlook Locust either. I didn't know my "supplier" had a stash ofLocust available when I picked up some Rock Maple a while back. Liveandlearn I guess! Steve Steve and Julie Stillabower, Indianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net ! ! from bills@nwlink.com Thu Nov 5 22:47:26 1998 Subject: Re: Epoxy removal Curt,I have not used Epon but have tried several other brands... including theDevcon stuck in the end of my ferule... and most dry to a brittle state in24 hours. A veteran rodbuilder recently recommended I try GolfsmithShafting Epoxy. It dries hard but not brittle. I figure if the Shaftingepoxy can hold a club head on with the constant pounding it can surely holda ferule on a "gently swaying" bamboo rod. I do not pin and do not plan to. I will just keep looking for a better epoxybefore resorting to pinning a ferule.Bill-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Epoxy removal The epoxy - after 3 days curing seemed more like rubber cement thanepoxy.Did I not wait long enough? Is the Epon a poor choice for ferrules? A related question that occurs to me: how many makers pin theirferrules> "Bill Strelke" 11/05/98 04:17PM >>> Is there a way to remove the pesky left over dry epoxy without destroyinganotherwise good ferule? The epoxy is 2-Ton Devcon> from saweiss@flash.net Thu Nov 5 23:40:25 1998 Subject: Re: Epoxy removal -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Epoxy removal Curt,I have not used Epon but have tried several other brands... including theDevcon stuck in the end of my ferule... and most dry to a brittle state in24 hours. A veteran rodbuilder recently recommended I try GolfsmithShafting Epoxy. It dries hard but not brittle. I figure if the Shaftingepoxy can hold a club head on with the constant pounding it can surelyholda ferule on a "gently swaying" bamboo rod. I do not pin and do not plan to. I will just keep looking for a betterepoxybefore resorting to pinning a ferule.Bill Bill,What is your source for the Golfsmith epoxy?Steve from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri Nov 6 00:34:34 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP Subject: Re: Epoxy removal Since ferrules are sized in 64ths of an inch...how about an appropriatelysized twist drill bit? George Bourke -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Epoxy removal I use acetone and a small file. Think the heat applied to release theferrule helps break down the epoxy into something more easily attacked found the rougher the inside the better the hold for the epoxy when youdo reattach. There might be better ways but this has seem to work fairlywell for me in the past.--Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail:chris@artistree.com Rodbuilders,I recently had to remove a newly mounted N/S super Z ferule that didnotseat properly. Popped right >off with a little heat but about 1/8 inchofepoxy was left in the far depths of the female half of the ferule. >Istherea way to remove the pesky left over dry epoxy without destroying anotherwise good ferule? >The epoxy is 2-Ton Devcon. Some sound advice(tofix my mistake) will be appreciated.Bill Strelke from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri Nov 6 00:37:58 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP Subject: Re: Copies? I am seeing my own posts as well as others' posts (including a lot of"test"posts so there must be some sort of problem). I've probably been gettingaround 50-60 messages per day from Rodmakers over the last severaldays. George Bourke -----Original Message----- Subject: Copies? Has anyone noticed if you are seeing your own posts back to the list? Thelast test message I sent did not get sent back to me (that make sense?).Just wondering.... Steve Steve and Julie Stillabower, Indianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net from cmj@post11.tele.dk Fri Nov 6 01:56:43 1998 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP Subject: Sv: Epoxy removal Building on Bill's question: I had my first crisis last night while fittingthe ferrules on myinaugural rod..... Curt, I use standard epoxy No Name from any painters shop or hardwarestore. They all work forfitting ferrules. The idea of a glue, able to withstand a 2 ton pull pr.square inch, orwhatever, not being able to securely mount a ferrule? Well, I would looksomewhere else. HaveYou degreased the ferrule properly?Is the bamboo degreased? Your hands/fingers leave a fingerprint, probablyleaving some sort ofsurface film on the bamboo. Could this be the case? When working withepoxys, rule #1 isCOMPLETE cleanliness, othervise the bond is not up to full strength. As to pinning the ferrule. DONT. It serves only one purpose: The ferrule notdropping off, whenthe glue has failed. It will not, on its own, keep the ferrule in place whenthe rod is used.All it does is weakening the bamboo. Other rodmakers have other ideas/expiriences. This is just my 0.02 cents. regards Carsten from chris@artistree.com Fri Nov 6 02:25:14 1998 Subject: Re: Epoxy removal (Epon for Ferrules) Curt,Are you using Epon 8128 or 8132? If you are using the Epon 8132 w/curing agent 3164 then this might help. I had the same problem and talked with a tech guy at Shell or MillerStevenson (can't remember which). He said that this is an "experimental"formulation and couldn't find any data in regard to curing time. So wewent over spec sheets very carefully and noticed that both the resin andcuring agent were tested (in other formulations) at Shell for 24 hoursat 25 C (77 F) and then for 2 hours at 100 C (212 F). After findingthese footnotes on the spec sheets he was confident that a post heatcuring would help. This is what I do today:Mix formulation 1:1. I let cure for 24 hrs at room temp. I then postcure with heat. I didn't want to put my blanks through 2 hrs at 212 F soI am doing around 180 F for 1.5 hours. Sets up nice and hard, much, muchharder than leaving at room temp for 3 days. It still stays just alittle bit flexible (think this is a property of the resin) but has avery strong bond. I've tried everything (short of hooking it up betweenmy car and a tree) to get the bond to break ... tough stuff! For ferrulerepair & removal, I just heat up to over 400 F and it releases. All disclaimers apply as I learned a long time ago that what works forme doesn't always work for someone else. So please consider whether youcan (or want to) incorporate another heat treatment into your buildingtechnique especially if you have glued (and straightened) the rod stripsup with epoxy.-- Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail:chris@artistree.com CURT PETERSEN wrote: Building on Bill's question: I had my first crisis last night while fittingthe ferrules on myinaugural rod. Both male and female ferrules creeped on me. I used ShellEpon 8128 resin and3164 curing agent. The epoxy - after 3 days curing seemed more likerubber cement than epoxy.Did I not wait long enough? Is the Epon a poor choice for ferrules? Couldmy formulation bewrong (1:1)? from chris@artistree.com Fri Nov 6 02:48:49 1998 Subject: Re: Epoxy removal Yeah, this sound like it might work. Think I'll try a brad type with endfiled flat.-- Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail:chris@artistree.com irish-george wrote: Since ferrules are sized in 64ths of an inch...how about an appropriatelysized twist drill bit? George Bourke I use acetone and a small file. Think the heat applied to release theferrule helps break down the epoxy into something more easilyattacked> >by the acetone. Not worried about scratching inside of ferruleas I havefound the rougher the inside the better the hold for the epoxy when youdo reattach. There might be better ways but this has seem to workfairlywell for me in the past.--Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail:chris@artistree.com from saltwein@swbell.net Fri Nov 6 06:39:35 1998 GAA22106 Subject: Re: Semi-hollow rods and tip-tops FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: Richard and Erik,I've just built 2 2 pc. rods and 1 3pc rod. The 3 pc has the mid and thebutt hollow and the 2 pc. rods (same taper) have only the butt hollowed.The 3pc. rod is faster(stiffer). I made no allowance in cane for the ferrules inthe 3 pc. I just used the same taper as the 2pc . rods. When I hollow Ijustplane the inner apex of each strip (all strips taped together) and leave nodams anywhere. I try to plane down to the point where the planed area is1/3the width of the enamel side of the strip. I thin down the Urac 185 morethanusual and use a small paint brush to apply sparingly so as not to fill thehollow with glue.I hope this doesn't confuse you more than it does me. :- )Regards,Hank Hank, This sounds like a simpler process. Have these rods had much fishingpressure on them? I was just wondering how they have stood up to use. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Nov 6 08:04:16 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Epoxy removal List, thinners. This is nasty stuff and will best be used with caution. I got this from a technical manual from M.A.B. Paint Co. , Terre Haute ,IN.Bret from saweiss@flash.net Fri Nov 6 08:06:32 1998 Subject: Re: Epoxy removal -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Epoxy removal Since ferrules are sized in 64ths of an inch...how about an appropriatelysized twist drill bit? You can sharpen a piece of drill rod or an old drill bit that is a slip fit.Grind a chisel type edge and twist the tool by hand inside the ferrule untilit bottoms on the water seal.Steve from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Nov 6 08:10:36 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Epoxy removal/Drill bit I tried the drill bit route once on very slow speed and I was doing greatuntil the bit grabbed the side of the ferrule. Alas one ruined ferrule withadrill bit through the side. My advise don't use a drill bit inside yourferrules unless you are going to spin it with your fingers.BretAnd I would still soak the inside for awhile with the xyzol to softenepoxy. from Anachemrpo@aol.com Fri Nov 6 08:14:44 1998 Subject: Re: Epoxy thinner spelling In a message dated 98-11-06 09:08:31 EST, you write: That's Xylene or (archaic) Xylol.Nasty, indeed. Rubber gloves, goggles, ventilation..."the works" as we say. Russ L.Anachemia Chemicals Inc. (Anachemrpo@aol.com) from bills@nwlink.com Fri Nov 6 09:05:32 1998 Subject: Re: Epoxy removal You can call Golfsmith at 800-456-3344 for a catalog. They are locatedinAustin, TX. The 2 part epoxy in half pint squeeze bottles is stock number9095. Cost is $6.75.Bill-----Original Message----- Bill,What is your source for the Golfsmith epoxy?Steve from anglport@con2.com Fri Nov 6 09:22:54 1998 Subject: Re: Epoxy thinner spelling If I'm not mistaken, that's (xylol) what some of "the boys" used to cut theimpregnation (bakelite?) when they started. When I saw that was involvedIfigured this was not a kitchen-table sort of process! Never have tried toimpregnate (cane) since then. Art At 09:13 AM 11/6/98 EST, you wrote:In a message dated 98-11-06 09:08:31 EST, you write: That's Xylene or (archaic) Xylol.Nasty, indeed. Rubber gloves, goggles, ventilation..."the works" as we say. Russ L.Anachemia Chemicals Inc. (Anachemrpo@aol.com) from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Nov 6 10:44:44 1998 Subject: Re: Epoxy removal In a message dated 11/5/98 2:25:35 PM Pacific Standard Time,bills@nwlink.comwrites: Is there a way to remove the pesky left over dry epoxy withoutdestroying anotherwise good ferule? The epoxy is 2-Ton Devcon. Some sound advice(to fixmy mistake) will be appreciated. Soak it in a little jar of acetone. In one of my other hobbiesI replace the wood handles of Buck folding knives with jade.To get the wood handles off I just put the knife in a jar andfill it with acetone. In a couple days the handles just float off.Years ago, when I first started doing this, I called the Buckfactory to find out what they used to glues the handles on.The answer was epoxy. Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Nov 6 10:56:46 1998 Subject: Auto Drain Speed Adjuster Great Idea!Very innovative and clever... But - The drain rate at the top of the tube being different from the bottom of the tube really doesn't makethat much of a difference in the results. Darryl from gwbarnes@gwi.net Fri Nov 6 12:28:28 1998 Subject: Re: Epoxy removal/Drill bit The last one I had to clean oit was thje result of a fall which broke theferruleoff. Full of both bamboo and epoxy. Mounted in a three jaw chuck in my oldlathe,dilled with an undersize drill in the tailstock and followed that with achuckingreamer of the correct diameter. Clean as a whistle Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: I tried the drill bit route once on very slow speed and I was doing greatuntil the bit grabbed the side of the ferrule. Alas one ruined ferrulewith adrill bit through the side. My advise don't use a drill bit inside yourferrules unless you are going to spin it with your fingers.BretAnd I would still soak the inside for awhile with the xyzol to softenepoxy. from saweiss@flash.net Fri Nov 6 15:01:48 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Epoxy removal -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Epoxy removal List, typethinners. This is nasty stuff and will best be used with caution. I gotthis from a technical manual from M.A.B. Paint Co. , Terre Haute ,IN.Bret Bret,I think those solvents are xylol and xylene, I used them in the lab manyyears ago.Steve from jczimny@dol.net Fri Nov 6 15:09:11 1998 Subject: Re: Epoxy removal Why not just heat it until the plug comes out. Clean out the destroyedepoxyand re-solder the plug back in. It's and easy operation.John Z from maxs@geocities.co.jp Fri Nov 6 17:03:09 1998 geocities.co.jp(8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id IAA04600 for; Sat, 7Nov 1998 08:03:03 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Copies? Hi George san, I had gotten no message from last Sunday for a few days. Unsubscribe/Subscribe caused 4-5 messages and now 10 to 15 a day. It is appreciated if the post of this week is forwarded again by theposter. Those who receive duplicate post, please erase one of two. Howabout this? Max irish-george wrote: I am seeing my own posts as well as others' posts (including a lot of"test"posts so there must be some sort of problem). I've probably been gettingaround 50-60 messages per day from Rodmakers over the last severaldays. George Bourke -----Original Message-----From: Steve Stillabower Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 4:55 PMSubject: Copies? Has anyone noticed if you are seeing your own posts back to the list? Thelast test message I sent did not get sent back to me (that make sense?).Just wondering.... Steve Steve and Julie Stillabower, Indianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net > -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from mrbamboo@quik.com Fri Nov 6 18:21:09 1998 Subject: Thanks for all of the support. boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001F_01BE09AA.210DDEC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BE09AA.210DDEC0 I just wanted to tell this group thanks for all of the rodbuilding =support over the years. I am now giving up rodbuilding, and getting rid =of all of my equipment and suppplies. I don't plan on getting back into =it, but rather spend a lot of time with my wife and family. Again =thanks for all of the support. Mrbamboo@quik.com Paul Whitely ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BE09AA.210DDEC0 I just wanted to tell this group = Mrbamboo@quik.com Paul =Whitely ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BE09AA.210DDEC0-- from mrbamboo@quik.com Fri Nov 6 18:27:16 1998 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0081_01BE09AA.FC33DC20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0081_01BE09AA.FC33DC20 unsubscribe RODMAKERS ------=_NextPart_000_0081_01BE09AA.FC33DC20 unsubscribe RODMAKERS ------=_NextPart_000_0081_01BE09AA.FC33DC20-- from mrmac@tcimet.net Fri Nov 6 18:50:24 1998 Subject: Spar vs PU I'm relatively new to the list, and am still working my way through thearchives, so if this has been already covered and I just haven't gotthere yet, my apologies. I am planning out how to approach my firstrod, and in thinking about the finish of choice, it occurred to me thatthere's some *small* chance that things might end up on the short sideof quite where one might like, so I wondered: When things don't go just *exactly* as one might hope in putting thefinish on a rod, is it easier to fix up boo-boos with spar varnishrather than polyurethane? Seems like it could be more easily rubbedout, but you guys "da pros", and I thought I'd see what your experiencehas been. Thanks, and appreciations for all the great guidance this list provides! mac from jkallo@midwest.net Fri Nov 6 20:06:24 1998 Subject: Re: Spar vs PU Umm....having had a finish problem on my first rod, I'll take a shot atthat. I started my finishing process with several coats of tung-oil varnish(Formby's) which was to be the only finish I was going to put on the stick.After seeing how wonderously shiny the polyurethane I applied over mysignature was, I decided to go ahead and do the whole rod. I used a brushand got a pretty nice finish (no doubt light years behind the one I'd havegot with a tube). After 24 hours the finish was still tacky and I assumed Ihad a interaction problem with poly-u and tung--the poly-u was supposedtobe fast drying. I decided I'd have to strip it after I found I could peelshreds of the poly-u off. I put the rod in the shop and went to bedintending to strip, rewrap and revarnish it the next day. I was prettyhacked off when I discovered the finish was as hard as a rock the next day.Everything would have been fine if I wouldn't have performed numerousfingernail tests to determine that the finishes had adversly reacted to oneanother. I then found (remembered) that poly-u finishes don't respond verywell to "fixes." Nicks and gouges don't sand out very well at all. It's thesame story in auto paint--try buffing a rock chip out of a poly-u clearcoat. On the other hand, if you put the stuff on properly and don't pick at itlike a moron (ahem.) they are pretty darn tuff. Just my experience, ofcourse. Best,Joe At 07:47 PM 11/6/98 -0500, you wrote:I'm relatively new to the list, and am still working my way through thearchives, so if this has been already covered and I just haven't gotthere yet, my apologies. I am planning out how to approach my firstrod, and in thinking about the finish of choice, it occurred to me thatthere's some *small* chance that things might end up on the short sideof quite where one might like, so I wondered: When things don't go just *exactly* as one might hope in putting thefinish on a rod, is it easier to fix up boo-boos with spar varnishrather than polyurethane? Seems like it could be more easily rubbedout, but you guys "da pros", and I thought I'd see what your experiencehas been. Thanks, and appreciations for all the great guidance this list provides! mac Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Nov 6 20:49:05 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Semi-hollow rods and tip-tops Steve,I've used a couple of these rods for about 10 years-no delaminationsyet.Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Nov 6 20:49:10 1998 Subject: Re: Sv: Epoxy removal I have to agree with Carsten-2 ton Devcon has worked for me since I'vebeenplaning cane and i've done over 100 rods.Regards,Hank. from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri Nov 6 23:13:42 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP Subject: Re: Epoxy removal If you're careful, I think the best solution would be the correct size endmill (if they are readily available by you & you are careful of the waterseal). George Bourke -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Epoxy removal -----Original Message-----From: irish-george Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 11:40 PMSubject: Re: Epoxy removal Since ferrules are sized in 64ths of an inch...how about an appropriatelysized twist drill bit? You can sharpen a piece of drill rod or an old drill bit that is a slipfit.Grind a chisel type edge and twist the tool by hand inside the ferruleuntilit bottoms on the water seal.Steve from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri Nov 6 23:17:15 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP Subject: Re: Re: Epoxy removal/Drill bit Yes...I meant to do it manually. Very unsafe to do under power withoutdoing a proper machining set-up. I'm really glad you brought this toeveryone's attention before someone got hurt. (I was visualizing puttingeither a twist drill or end mill in a tap holder and using it to ream outthe epoxy.) George Bourke -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Epoxy removal/Drill bit I tried the drill bit route once on very slow speed and I was doing greatuntil the bit grabbed the side of the ferrule. Alas one ruined ferrulewith adrill bit through the side. My advise don't use a drill bit inside yourferrules unless you are going to spin it with your fingers.BretAnd I would still soak the inside for awhile with the xyzol to softenepoxy. from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri Nov 6 23:22:24 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP Subject: Re: Copies? You're coming thru now Max. George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Copies? Hi George san, I had gotten no message from last Sunday for a few days.Unsubscribe/Subscribe caused 4-5 messages and now 10 to 15 a day. It is appreciated if the post of this week is forwarded again by theposter. Those who receive duplicate post, please erase one of two. Howabout this? Max irish-george wrote: I am seeing my own posts as well as others' posts (including a lot of"test"posts so there must be some sort of problem). I've probably beengettingaround 50-60 messages per day from Rodmakers over the last severaldays. George Bourke -----Original Message-----From: Steve Stillabower Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 4:55 PMSubject: Copies? Has anyone noticed if you are seeing your own posts back to the list?Thelast test message I sent did not get sent back to me (that makesense?).Just wondering.... Steve Steve and Julie Stillabower, Indianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net> > --Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from channer@hubwest.com Sat Nov 7 00:55:26 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AF3D57600AA; Fri, 06 Nov 1998 23:57:01 MST Subject: Re: Spar vs PU At 07:47 PM 11/6/98 -0500, you wrote:I'm relatively new to the list, and am still working my way through thearchives, so if this has been already covered and I just haven't gotthere yet, my apologies. I am planning out how to approach my firstrod, and in thinking about the finish of choice, it occurred to me thatthere's some *small* chance that things might end up on the short sideof quite where one might like, so I wondered: When things don't go just *exactly* as one might hope in putting thefinish on a rod, is it easier to fix up boo-boos with spar varnishrather than polyurethane? Seems like it could be more easily rubbedout, but you guys "da pros", and I thought I'd see what your experiencehas been. Thanks, and appreciations for all the great guidance this list provides! mac mac;I have found that spar varnishes are much easier to repair thanpolurethanes.Spar will sand and blend much better than poly, but does notcome in a quick dry formula, so the environment needs to be controlledbetter than forpoly. If you can put together a dust(and dog hair) free boxof some kind for it to dry in, spar will allow you to take care of theimperfections without working you to death. If you are going to brush yourfirst few rods, definitely use spar, warm it up first by putting thecontainer of varnish in a bowl of hot water for a while. The brush markswill flow out nicely. Wait at least 3 days before sanding for the next coatand for polishing out the final coat. John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Sat Nov 7 01:02:06 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A0D8C00080; Sat, 07 Nov 1998 00:03:52 MST Subject: Re: Sv: Epoxy removal At 09:48 PM 11/6/98 EST, you wrote:I have to agree with Carsten-2 ton Devcon has worked for me since I'vebeenplaning cane and i've done over 100 rods.Regards,Hank. Hank;I used Devcon 2-ton on the ferrules on the first four rods I made and everyone of them pulled off, even tho I cleaned the inside of the ferrule withacetone first. I have been using Accraglas gel ( as per Jack Howell) eversince with good results so far. As the man said "If it wasn't for bad luck,I wouldn't have no luck at all". John Channer from m.boretti@agonet.it Sat Nov 7 07:44:50 1998 Subject: Leonard Taper. Dear Friends,I am looking some taper about Leonard Catskill in some length.Can you help me ? Sincerely,Marco Boretti m.boretti@agonet.it from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Nov 7 09:38:05 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Sv: Epoxy removal John,I have always used good old ferrule cement for years and never had aproblem,go figure.Bret from tomchandler@earthlink.net Sat Nov 7 10:45:18 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Sv: Epoxy removal Bret: I have always used good old ferrule cement for years and never had aproblem,go figure.Bret I have a hot melt glue gun on my fly tying table for use with "poxyback"style flies. The other day at the hardware store I noticed an extendedworking time hot melt glue stick, and I wondered what the differencebetweenthis stuff and ferrule cement might be -- has anyone ever tried hot meltglue for ferrules and tip tops? Just curious.TC from RVenneri@aol.com Sat Nov 7 11:38:50 1998 Subject: Re: Catskill Rodmakers Gathering In a message dated 7/10/98 5:29:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,cbogart@shentel.net writes: sorry to all I meant to send that to Chris from flyfish@alaska.net Sat Nov 7 12:47:52 1998 (AKST) Subject: New to the List Greetings, My name is Dave Goodman and I've been on the list for a couple of weeksnow. I live in Anchorage, AK. I'm a cane rod user, not a builder (yet), butwanted to tell you all that I thoroughly enjoy the discussions that happenand information that is available here. It gives me a much betterappreciation of both the rods and the craftsmen who build them. Just wanted to say hello. Dave from ejwalsh@mindspring.com Sat Nov 7 13:09:03 1998 Subject: Help with beginners We (a fellow woodworker and I ) are new to the art of making bamboo flyfly rods and are currently experimenting to see if it is something wecan do. While we seem to do OK planing the butt end of the bamboo, weare having trouble when we try to get down to the samll dimensionsrequired for the tips. The bamboo keeps moving around in the plane.So far none of the research we've found gives any clues on the properway to do this. Any help would be greatly appreciated. ThanksEd WalshFlowery Branch,Georgia from sjstill@iquest.net Sat Nov 7 13:52:05 1998 0000 (209.43.49.199) Subject: test - again test Steve and Julie Stillabower, Indianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net from channer@hubwest.com Sat Nov 7 15:16:34 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A8CC8230102; Sat, 07 Nov 1998 14:17:00 MST Subject: Montague ferrule Guys;Does anybody have, or know where I can get, a Montague bottle style tipsection male ferrule, preferably waisted type. I need one with an outersleeve diameter of .172". Another case of sentiment getting in the way ofjudgement and advise. Thanks for any help. John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Sat Nov 7 15:34:33 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AD5284A0086; Sat, 07 Nov 1998 14:36:18 MST Subject: Re: Help with beginners At 02:06 PM 11/7/98 -0500, you wrote:We (a fellow woodworker and I ) are new to the art of making bamboo flyfly rods and are currently experimenting to see if it is something wecan do. While we seem to do OK planing the butt end of the bamboo, weare having trouble when we try to get down to the samll dimensionsrequired for the tips. The bamboo keeps moving around in the plane.So far none of the research we've found gives any clues on the properway to do this. Any help would be greatly appreciated. ThanksEd WalshFlowery Branch,Georgia Ed;If your strip is moving forward in the form as you are planing, then youneed 2 things.1-rubber finger protectors from the stationary store to holdthe strip down firmly and 2-a sharper blade in your plane. A blade that issharp enough for any woodwork is maybe half way there for bamboo. Readthearchives for several different sharpening methods and pick the one thatyouthink you can handle best, but get that blade sharp enough to performsurgery with. John Channer from gwbarnes@gwi.net Sat Nov 7 17:30:15 1998 Subject: Re: Help with beginners My experience is a hold down clamp with a rubber tip will beat gloves orrubberfinger tips hand down. Available in most woodworking catalogs at a fairlyreasonable cost.George B. john channer wrote: At 02:06 PM 11/7/98 -0500, you wrote:We (a fellow woodworker and I ) are new to the art of making bambooflyfly rods and are currently experimenting to see if it is something wecan do. While we seem to do OK planing the butt end of the bamboo, weare having trouble when we try to get down to the samll dimensionsrequired for the tips. The bamboo keeps moving around in the plane.So far none of the research we've found gives any clues on the properway to do this. Any help would be greatly appreciated. ThanksEd WalshFlowery Branch,Georgia Ed;If your strip is moving forward in the form as you are planing, then youneed 2 things.1-rubber finger protectors from the stationary store toholdthe strip down firmly and 2-a sharper blade in your plane. A blade that issharp enough for any woodwork is maybe half way there for bamboo. Readthearchives for several different sharpening methods and pick the one thatyouthink you can handle best, but get that blade sharp enough to performsurgery with. John Channer from dellc@nextdim.com Sat Nov 7 17:35:11 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A5D41F9400B0; Sat, 07 Nov 1998 15:20:52 PDT Subject: Re: Montague ferrule John, unless somebody else has a ferrule that you were looking for I haveone that doesn't match anything that I have right now that you arewelcometo. Send me your address.Sincerely,Dell Coppock,"IN THE GREAT NORTHWEST"http://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail flyfisher@nextdim.com- ----Original Message----- Subject: Montague ferrule Guys;Does anybody have, or know where I can get, a Montague bottle style tipsection male ferrule, preferably waisted type. I need one with an outersleeve diameter of .172". Another case of sentiment getting in the way ofjudgement and advise. Thanks for any help. John Channer from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Nov 7 17:48:54 1998 Subject: Re: Help with beginners Ed This may also be a case of trying to cure the symptoms and not thedisease.I agree with the advice with hold downs - but I usually find the cause forslippage is a dull plane blade. A sharp blade will not "pull" the strip - a dull one will. Assoon as I feelthat "pull" I stop and quickly sharpen. especially when you get down to thesmaller strips.I have no trouble holding with "bare" hands - but recommend bothpreviously mentioned methods to my students. Chris On Sat, 07 Nov 1998 19:14:04 -0800, George W. Barnes wrote: My experience is a hold down clamp with a rubber tip will beat gloves orrubberfinger tips hand down. Available in most woodworking catalogs at afairlyreasonable cost.George B. john channer wrote: At 02:06 PM 11/7/98 -0500, you wrote:We (a fellow woodworker and I ) are new to the art of making bambooflyfly rods and are currently experimenting to see if it is something wecan do. While we seem to do OK planing the butt end of the bamboo, weare having trouble when we try to get down to the samll dimensionsrequired for the tips. The bamboo keeps moving around in the plane.So far none of the research we've found gives any clues on the properway to do this. Any help would be greatly appreciated. ThanksEd WalshFlowery Branch,Georgia Ed;If your strip is moving forward in the form as you are planing, then youneed 2 things.1-rubber finger protectors from the stationary store toholdthe strip down firmly and 2-a sharper blade in your plane. A blade thatissharp enough for any woodwork is maybe half way there for bamboo.Read thearchives for several different sharpening methods and pick the one thatyouthink you can handle best, but get that blade sharp enough to performsurgery with. John Channer from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat Nov 7 20:36:31 1998 Sun, 8 Nov 1998 10:36:16 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Help with beginners On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, Ed Walsh wrote: We (a fellow woodworker and I ) are new to the art of making bamboo flyfly rods and are currently experimenting to see if it is something wecan do. While we seem to do OK planing the butt end of the bamboo, weare having trouble when we try to get down to the samll dimensionsrequired for the tips. The bamboo keeps moving around in the plane.So far none of the research we've found gives any clues on the properway to do this. Any help would be greatly appreciated. As long as you're using a planing form it sounds as if the plane iron is dull. Try sharpening it a little more often as bamboo will dull the edge a lot fater than even the hardest of timbers. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from fritzwiese@webtv.net Sat Nov 7 21:13:00 1998 105.iap.bryant.webtv.net v.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id 112.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) ETAsAhR0swxzv8PdzzwOZTFO4NDWZ0JlxAIUUgodh/Ao1wtxwW078QmtWnVzN2A= Subject: Re: Montague ferrule --WebTV-Mail-1706367591-4886 John: I have two that I removed from a 1940 Montague Beaver Run. I rebuiltthe rod for fishing. Not a restoration. I had Bailey Wood make a newset for me. I did however, drill next to the pin so that I could liftit without pounding down the pin. Could be repaired. You are welcometo them. Just send your address. Fritz Wiese --WebTV-Mail-1706367591-4886 102.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/po.gso.24Feb98) mailsorter-102.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.graham.14Aug97) with wugate.wustl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) wugate.wustl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA19852 for; (SMTPD32-4.02c) Subject: Montague ferrule Guys;Does anybody have, or know where I can get, a Montague bottle style tipsection male ferrule, preferably waisted type. I need one with an outersleeve diameter of .172". Another case of sentiment getting in the way ofjudgement and advise. Thanks for any help. John Channer --WebTV-Mail-1706367591-4886-- from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Nov 7 21:59:56 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Help with beginners I agree on the sharp blade bit but also try an eraser heid down on the strip works for me.Regards,Hank. from channer@hubwest.com Sun Nov 8 01:12:21 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A4B98280146; Sun, 08 Nov 1998 00:14:01 MST Subject: Re: Montague ferrule At 10:12 PM 11/7/98 -0500, you wrote:John: I have two that I removed from a 1940 Montague Beaver Run. I rebuiltthe rod for fishing. Not a restoration. I had Bailey Wood make a newset for me. I did however, drill next to the pin so that I could liftit without pounding down the pin. Could be repaired. You are welcometo them. Just send your address. Fritz Wiese Fritz;Thanks very much. This rod is not worth the expense of having newferrulesmade, but yours will be just fine. I appreciate it. John Channer5154 Hwy 172Durango, Co. 81301 from Canerods@aol.com Sun Nov 8 10:49:17 1998 Subject: Suitable replacement Payne reelseat? All, To any anyone that's seen a few more Paynes than me (total of one so far): My 2/3's of a complete Payne #204 rod arrived recently, I acquired fromthePhil Snyder estate sale. The butt section for this rod at sometime/place inthe past just disappeared. The same gremlin also ate the second tip too.However, I'd like to turn it into a fishable rod once again. I've found a picture of a #204 - Martin Keane has one on the cover of hislatest catalog. (right next to a real nice looking AJ Thramer rod) Thepictureshows that it should have a cedar spacer screw D/L seat with an oversizedmetal butt cap. Does anyone still make a reelseat that is at all close totheoriginal design? Maybe REC? Also, how about the chance of finding an original Payne replacementfemaleferrule too? The mid's slide measures ~0.248". Email me at: Canerods@aol.com Buttless in LA, Don Burns from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Nov 8 10:56:58 1998 Subject: Re: Suitable replacement Payne reelseat? Don,I would check with Bob Venneri ( a list member ) and see if he can'tduplicatewhat you want. I have received many reelseats from him and I must saytheyare really nice. If anyone can do this I think he can. RVenneri@aol.com ishis e-mail.Bret from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Sun Nov 8 13:58:38 1998 with SMTP Subject: Sorry, testing again You wouldn't believe it, but when I gave the advice to unsubscribe and there- up, I stoppedseeing my own messages! Is there a ghost in the machine?? Dennis from bills@nwlink.com Sun Nov 8 14:06:34 1998Received: from Subject: Results of epoxy reoval boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE0B0F.DB1BCDC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE0B0F.DB1BCDC0 Thanks to everyone for the suggestions on removing epoxy from a ferrule.=I tried the easiest proposed solution ( from Darryl I think) first and =good news, it worked. SOAKED IT IN ACETONE for several hours and the = Since I could not clearly see or feel the epoxy (in the ferrule) there =was still a question of whether it was a result of the acetone soaking =or the epoxy simply would have flaked off anyway. To answer that =question I mixed up some Devcon 2-ton, covered about 3 inches of the =mixing stick and let the epoxy dry on the mixing stick for 24 hours. I =then soaked the lower half of the dried epoxy in acetone for 3 hours and =picked it off with the needle/bodkin. The acetone soaked section flaked = Seems that some types of paint remover may work as well. Hope all your=ferrules seat properly and this info is never needed but... Bill Strelke ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE0B0F.DB1BCDC0 Thanks to everyone for the = several hours and the acetone flaked off/out when scratched with a = Since I could not clearly see or feel the epoxy (in = ferrule) there was still a question of whether it was a result of the = question I mixed up some Devcon 2-ton, covered about 3 inches of the = soaked the lower half of the dried epoxy in acetone for 3 hours and = Seems that some types of paint remover may workas = but... Bill Strelke ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE0B0F.DB1BCDC0-- from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Nov 8 15:12:23 1998 Subject: Grobet Files - #8 cut pillar files To All Having just finished fitting some ferrules today - it brought to mymind a conversationI had about a month or so ago with Bailey Wood. He did a special order lastspring for some#8 cut pillar files but they turned out to be 1/2" wide. He will entertainanother specialorder for 3/4" wide files which are a much better width for most ferrulesif there is interest.So if you call be sure to mention interest in these files. This very fine cutcan only be hadthrough a specialorder since they no longer produce them. In case anyone hasn't used them, I do my inital dressing with a #6 cutand then fine dressing with a #8 and just polish with 0000 steel wool. I really geta good fit usingthe files and it is quick. This is how Bailey does it when people pay theextra $5 for fittedferrules. Regards Chris from jczimny@dol.net Sun Nov 8 17:04:27 1998 Subject: Re: Grobet Files - #8 cut pillar files I must agree with Chris. These files are the best way to lap a ferrule. Canwe generate someinterest in makinga "buy". Chris?? Oh, non-commercial, ofcourse.John Z cbogart wrote: To All Having just finished fitting some ferrules today - it brought to mymind aconversationI had about a month or so ago with Bailey Wood. He did a special orderlast spring for some#8 cut pillar files but they turned out to be 1/2" wide. He will entertainanother specialorder for 3/4" wide files which are a much better width for mostferrules if there isinterest. Soif you call be sure to mention interest in these files. This very fine cutcan only be hadthrough a specialorder since they no longer produce them. In case anyone hasn't used them, I do my inital dressing with a #6cut and thenfine dressing with a #8 and just polish with 0000 steel wool. I reallyget a good fit usingthe files and it is quick. This is how Bailey does it when people pay theextra $5 for fittedferrules. Regards Chris from jczimny@dol.net Sun Nov 8 17:15:18 1998 Subject: John Irgens To the List:Does anyone know of John Irgens. And, if so, how to contact him.John Z. from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Nov 8 17:18:24 1998 Subject: Re: Grobet Files - #8 cut pillar files John I have no financial interest only a professional interest in gettingsome of these files to lap ferrules - Bailey does have the financial interest - he is alsothe distributor forthefiles. We need to convince him there is enough interest for him to take thefinancial risk ofordering 50 or more of these files. Price for a file will be in the $35-40(USD) range. but theyareworth every cent. In case people do not have his phone number it is (802)525- 3623. I thinkhe still has a few of the 1/2" ones in stock - better hurry. Chris On Sun, 08 Nov 1998 17:59:50 -0500, J. C. Zimny wrote: I must agree with Chris. These files are the best way to lap a ferrule. Canwe generate someinterest in makinga "buy". Chris?? Oh, non-commercial, ofcourse.John Z cbogart wrote: To All Having just finished fitting some ferrules today - it brought to mymind aconversationI had about a month or so ago with Bailey Wood. He did a special orderlast spring for some#8 cut pillar files but they turned out to be 1/2" wide. He will entertainanother specialorder for 3/4" wide files which are a much better width for mostferrules if there isinterest. Soif you call be sure to mention interest in these files. This very fine cutcan only be hadthrough a specialorder since they no longer produce them. In case anyone hasn't used them, I do my inital dressing with a #6cut and thenfine dressing with a #8 and just polish with 0000 steel wool. I reallyget a good fit usingthe files and it is quick. This is how Bailey does it when people pay theextra $5 for fittedferrules. Regards Chris from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Nov 8 17:50:30 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Grobet Files - #8 cut pillar files Iwould be interested in these files. from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Nov 8 17:58:56 1998 Subject: Re: Grobet Files - #8 cut pillar files Give Bailey a call. Chris On Sun, 8 Nov 1998 18:49:21 EST, Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Iwould be interested in these files. from Davidhray1@aol.com Sun Nov 8 18:27:14 1998 Subject: Tapers If anyone can help, I want to build a 6 weight rod to catch bass and breamandI need a taper for a medium to fast action rod. I am also looking for ataper wet.Thanks for you help. David H. Ray from jczimny@dol.net Sun Nov 8 18:44:21 1998 Subject: Re: Grobet Files - #8 cut pillar files Chris,Ofcourse you have no financial interest. Your interest is obtaining a toolwhich is perfect for exacting job of lapping a ferrule. It was only a"tongue-in-cheek" reference to the famous debate: commercial vs.non- commercial or financial vs. non-financial. I just wanted to point totheoften blurred division of the debate - most thankfully in grateful rigor ofmort! Anyway, anyone who mentions bamboo rod making and commercial(ieprofit) is committing the sin of paradox.John Z -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Grobet Files - #8 cut pillar files John I have no financial interest only a professional interest in getting someof thesefiles to lap ferrules - Bailey does have the financial interest - he isalso the distributor for thefiles. We need to convince him there is enough interest for him to takethefinancial risk ofordering 50 or more of these files. Price for a file will be in the $35-40(USD) range. but they areworth every cent. In case people do not have his phone number it is (802)525-3623. I thinkhe still has a few of the 1/2" ones in stock - better hurry. Chris On Sun, 08 Nov 1998 17:59:50 -0500, J. C. Zimny wrote: I must agree with Chris. These files are the best way to lap a ferrule.Can we generate some interest in makinga "buy". Chris?? Oh, non-commercial, ofcourse.John Z cbogart wrote: To All Having just finished fitting some ferrules today - it brought tomy mind a conversationI had about a month or so ago with Bailey Wood. He did a special orderlast spring for some#8 cut pillar files but they turned out to be 1/2" wide. He willentertain another specialorder for 3/4" wide files which are a much better width for mostferrules if there is interest. Soif you call be sure to mention interest in these files. This very finecut can only be had through a specialorder since they no longer produce them. In case anyone hasn't used them, I do my inital dressing with a#6 cut and thenfine dressing with a #8 and just polish with 0000 steel wool. I reallyget a good fit usingthe files and it is quick. This is how Bailey does it when people paythe extra $5 for fitted ferrules. Regards Chris from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Nov 8 20:15:48 1998 Mon, 9 Nov 1998 10:15:31 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Grobet Files - #8 cut pillar files On Sun, 8 Nov 1998, John Zimny wrote: Chris,Ofcourse you have no financial interest. Your interest is obtaining a toolwhich is perfect for exacting job of lapping a ferrule. It was only a"tongue-in-cheek" reference to the famous debate: commercial vs.non- commercial or financial vs. non-financial. I just wanted to point totheoften blurred division of the debate - most thankfully in grateful rigorofmort! Anyway, anyone who mentions bamboo rod making andcommercial(ieprofit) is committing the sin of paradox.John Z Chris,*please* don't get excited about this. I read JZ's message the way he intended, I even chortled when I read it, the words "grits" (thanks The mention of profit and bamboo rods is a paradox but also an axiom. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sun Nov 8 22:27:49 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP Subject: Re: Grobet Files - #8 cut pillar files I will buy if there is a group buy. George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Grobet Files - #8 cut pillar files To All Having just finished fitting some ferrules today - it brought to my mindaconversationI had about a month or so ago with Bailey Wood. He did a special orderlastspring for some#8 cut pillar files but they turned out to be 1/2" wide. He will entertainanother specialorder for 3/4" wide files which are a much better width for mostferrulesif there is interest. Soif you call be sure to mention interest in these files. This very fine cutcan only be had through a specialorder since they no longer produce them. In case anyone hasn't used them, I do my inital dressing with a #6 cutandthenfine dressing with a #8 and just polish with 0000 steel wool. I really geta good fit usingthe files and it is quick. This is how Bailey does it when people pay theextra $5 for fitted ferrules. Regards Chris from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Nov 9 09:32:46 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1a3);Mon,9 Nov 1998 10:12:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Grobet Files - #8 cut pillar files Just so everyone knows...I have been working on a file order for a little while. The price is about the same 35-45 range plus shipping...no hard numbers as of yet. The files would be 3/4 or 1" wide. Take care.Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.munrorodco.com from Molly1011@aol.com Mon Nov 9 10:28:15 1998 Subject: Re: Semi-hollow rods and tip-tops Richard, I haven't bothered adjusting the tapers. The finished rods don'tfeel any softer to me. as far as weight, the rod is lighter but not bymuch.it does change the point of balance. that seems to be a bigger issue. erik from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Nov 9 11:11:27 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1a3);Mon,9 Nov 1998 12:18:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Grobet Files - #8 cut pillar files Don't want anyone to think this is an ad. God knows the list couldn't handle another tiff. Just wanted everyone to know someone out here is computer land is working on the issue as well. I don't have any files for sale nor will I offer them on the list if I have them made. Not because I don't like you all...I love each and every one of you! Just don't want to start something. Take care, Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.munrorodco.com from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Nov 9 12:08:19 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Grobet Files - #8 cut pillar files AHH geeeeee John, tanks, we didn't know you cared.BretLOL from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Mon Nov 9 15:55:12 1998 Subject: Re: Sv: Epoxy removal At 08:43 07/11/98 -0800, you wrote: Bret: I have always used good old ferrule cement for years and never had aproblem,go figure.Bret I have a hot melt glue gun on my fly tying table for use with "poxyback"style flies. The other day at the hardware store I noticed an extendedworking time hot melt glue stick, and I wondered what the differencebetweenthis stuff and ferrule cement might be -- has anyone ever tried hot meltglue for ferrules and tip tops? Just curious.TC TC, Used it for ferrules - no failures on the few I did - am using epoxy now -tip tops all are done with hot melt. Don from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Nov 9 16:54:04 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Sv: Epoxy removal Don, I have never once had a failure with this type of cement and willcontinue to use it until it lets me down.bret from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Nov 9 18:11:11 1998 Subject: Re: Grobet Files - #8 cut pillar files John As I said a couple of years ago - show me a self mademillionaire rodmaker and I will show you a drug dealer. Chris On Sun, 8 Nov 1998 19:36:44 -0500, John Zimny wrote: Chris,Ofcourse you have no financial interest. Your interest is obtaining a toolwhich is perfect for exacting job of lapping a ferrule. It was only a"tongue-in-cheek" reference to the famous debate: commercial vs.non- commercial or financial vs. non-financial. I just wanted to point totheoften blurred division of the debate - most thankfully in grateful rigor ofmort! Anyway, anyone who mentions bamboo rod making andcommercial(ieprofit) is committing the sin of paradox.John Z -----Original Message-----From: cbogart Date: Sunday, November 08, 1998 6:21 PMSubject: Re: Grobet Files - #8 cut pillar files John I have no financial interest only a professional interest in getting someof thesefiles to lap ferrules - Bailey does have the financial interest - he isalso the distributor for thefiles. We need to convince him there is enough interest for him to takethefinancial risk ofordering 50 or more of these files. Price for a file will be in the $35-40(USD) range. but they areworth every cent. In case people do not have his phone number it is (802)525-3623. I thinkhe still has a few of the 1/2" ones in stock - better hurry. Chris On Sun, 08 Nov 1998 17:59:50 -0500, J. C. Zimny wrote: I must agree with Chris. These files are the best way to lap a ferrule.Can we generate some interest in makinga "buy". Chris?? Oh, non-commercial, ofcourse.John Z cbogart wrote: To All Having just finished fitting some ferrules today - it brought tomy mind a conversationI had about a month or so ago with Bailey Wood. He did a special orderlast spring for some#8 cut pillar files but they turned out to be 1/2" wide. He willentertain another specialorder for 3/4" wide files which are a much better width for mostferrules if there is interest. Soif you call be sure to mention interest in these files. This very finecut can only be had through a specialorder since they no longer produce them. In case anyone hasn't used them, I do my inital dressing with a#6 cut and thenfine dressing with a #8 and just polish with 0000 steel wool. I reallyget a good fit usingthe files and it is quick. This is how Bailey does it when people paythe extra $5 for fitted ferrules. Regards Chris from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Nov 9 18:42:54 1998 Subject: Re: Sv: Epoxy removal Don We've had a discussion on these hot melt glues about 2 years ago(See archives). The one product I have tried is Fer-L-Tite which is sold inarcherystores and through our friend Bailey Wood. I personally don't like itbecause of a short working time it is hard to get the tabs down tite withit. But it does let you get the ferrule off. The archery guys use it to put onarrow heads. Chris On Mon, 09 Nov 1998 15:33:34, Don Andersen wrote: At 08:43 07/11/98 -0800, you wrote: Bret: I have always used good old ferrule cement for years and never had aproblem,go figure.Bret I have a hot melt glue gun on my fly tying table for use with "poxyback"style flies. The other day at the hardware store I noticed an extendedworking time hot melt glue stick, and I wondered what the differencebetweenthis stuff and ferrule cement might be -- has anyone ever tried hot meltglue for ferrules and tip tops? Just curious.TC TC, Used it for ferrules - no failures on the few I did - am using epoxy now -tip tops all are done with hot melt. Don from chris@artistree.com Mon Nov 9 19:05:19 1998 Subject: Just in time for X-Mas List,I just received a copy of the new book "Fundamentals of Building aBamboo Fly-Rod" by George Maurer & Bernard Elser in the mail today. Whatchapters I've read so far are very well done and will make a fineaddition to anyone's library. Just thought you might like to know it'snow available.-- Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail:chris@artistree.com from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Nov 9 20:48:18 1998 Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:47:48 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Grobet Files - #8 cut pillar files On Mon, 9 Nov 1998, Jon Lintvet wrote: Don't want anyone to think this is an ad. God knows the list couldn't handle another tiff. Just wanted everyone to know someone out here is computer land is working on the issue as well. I don't have any files for sale nor will I offer them on the list if I have them made. Not because I don't like you all...I love each and every one of you! Just don't want to start something. Take care, Steady on mate, my wife reads this stuff. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from lblan@provide.net Mon Nov 9 22:14:39 1998 Subject: RE: Grobet Files - #8 cut pillar files ROFL.......... Larry Blan Steady on mate, my wife reads this stuff. from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Tue Nov 10 08:27:11 1998 (modemcable62.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: test BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_qsqHcyfUw1YujG3nGDmP0A)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_qsqHcyfUw1YujG3nGDmP0A) BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_Y4/H+oNgP3tmb57mUbkrvg)" --Boundary_(ID_Y4/H+oNgP3tmb57mUbkrvg) test --Boundary_(ID_Y4/H+oNgP3tmb57mUbkrvg) test --Boundary_(ID_Y4/H+oNgP3tmb57mUbkrvg)-- --Boundary_(ID_qsqHcyfUw1YujG3nGDmP0A) mail).vcf" BEGIN:VCARDVERSION:2.1N:Nantel;Richard;;;FN:Richard Nantel (E-mail)ORG:Le groupe MENTOR;TITLE:TEL;WORK;VOICE:(514) 393- 3292TEL;HOME;VOICE:(514) 485-2287TEL;PAGER;VOICE:[1] (514) 111- 1111TEL;WORK;FAX:(514) 393-1483ADR;WORK:;;4374 Old Orchard Avenue;Monteal;Quebec;H4A 3B4;CanadaLABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:4374 Old Orchard =Avenue=3D0D=3D0AMonteal, Quebec H4A 3B4=3D0D=3D0ACanadaADR;HOME:;;4374 Old Orchard Avenue;Monteal;Quebec;H4A 3B4;CanadaLABEL;HOME;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:4374 Old Orchard =Avenue=3D0D=3D0AMonteal, Quebec H4A 3B4=3D0D=3D0ACanadaEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:richard.nantel@videotron.caREV:19980514T133343ZEND:VCARD --Boundary_(ID_qsqHcyfUw1YujG3nGDmP0A)-- from fquinchat@locl.net Tue Nov 10 08:36:08 1998 (8.9.0/8.7.3) withESMTP id FAA11567 for ; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 Subject: Re: Just in time for X-Mas I have a 1996 spiral bound version by the same name and by the sameauthors. Is this a completely new edition? Dennis Bertram ----------From: Chris Wohlford Subject: Just in time for X-MasDate: Monday, November 09, 1998 12:06 PM List,I just received a copy of the new book "Fundamentals of Building aBamboo Fly-Rod" by George Maurer & Bernard Elser in the mail today.Whatchapters I've read so far are very well done and will make a fineaddition to anyone's library. Just thought you might like to know it'snow available.-- Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail:chris@artistree.com from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Nov 10 10:16:50 1998 Subject: Re: Sv: Epoxy removal At 19:48 09/11/98 -0500, you wrote:Don We've had a discussion on these hot melt glues about 2 years ago(See archives). The one product I have tried is Fer-L-Tite which is soldin archerystores and through our friend Bailey Wood. I personally don't like itbecause of a short working time it is hard to get the tabs down tite withit. But it does let you get the ferrule off. The archery guys use it toput onarrow heads. Chris, The tabs are no issue if you use a coil of wire wrapped around the tabs.Tighten the wire as you heat the glue pulling the tabs to the cane. I useni-chrome wire - the electrical guys use it for resistance wire. Used itto make fish branding irons @ one point in my career as a volunteerhabitatrepairer - but thats a different story. Makes neat hook keepers too.The hot glue I've used comes from the local craft shop. Seems to work OK. Don Chris On Mon, 09 Nov 1998 15:33:34, Don Andersen wrote: At 08:43 07/11/98 -0800, you wrote: Bret: I have always used good old ferrule cement for years and never had aproblem,go figure.Bret I have a hot melt glue gun on my fly tying table for use with "poxyback"style flies. The other day at the hardware store I noticed an extendedworking time hot melt glue stick, and I wondered what the differencebetweenthis stuff and ferrule cement might be -- has anyone ever tried hotmeltglue for ferrules and tip tops? Just curious.TC TC, Used it for ferrules - no failures on the few I did - am using epoxy now -tip tops all are done with hot melt. Don from sjstill@iquest.net Tue Nov 10 10:17:34 1998 (209.43.55.48) Subject: Light week? Hi All, Is it my server, or has it just been light traffic for the past fewdays? 'Bout the most I've seen has been to do with files. Steve from ljrp@penn.com Tue Nov 10 11:52:44 1998 Subject: Re: Light week? Hey Steve I had to resubscribe!! didn't get any messages last three or four dayseither???? Steve Stillabower wrote: Hi All, Is it my server, or has it just been light traffic for the past fewdays? 'Bout the most I've seen has been to do with files. Steve from sjstill@iquest.net Tue Nov 10 12:25:44 1998 0000 (209.43.54.73) Subject: Re: Light week? Hey Steve At 12:50 11/10/98 -0500, you wrote:I had to resubscribe!! didn't get any messages last three or four dayseither???? Yea, I might have to do that - I never even saw a copy of that message I Honest) Steve Steve and Julie Stillabower, Indianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net from chris@artistree.com Tue Nov 10 12:36:33 1998 Subject: Re: Just in time for X-Mas This is stated first edition 1998, hardcover, 255 pages. Never had achance to see the preliminary edition you have so I can't tell you ifit's any different. It's might have been edited w/ info added or omitted.-- Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail:chris@artistree.com Fquinchat wrote: I have a 1996 spiral bound version by the same name and by the sameauthors. Is this a completely new edition? Dennis Bertram ----------From: Chris Wohlford Subject: Just in time for X-MasDate: Monday, November 09, 1998 12:06 PM List,I just received a copy of the new book "Fundamentals of Building aBamboo Fly-Rod" by George Maurer & Bernard Elser in the mail today.Whatchapters I've read so far are very well done and will make a fineaddition to anyone's library. Just thought you might like to know it'snow available.--Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail:chris@artistree.com from sjstill@iquest.net Tue Nov 10 14:34:12 1998 0000 (209.43.48.43) Subject: Test - again I know that these test messages are frowned upon, but I seem to have beenbumped off a lot here in the last week or so. What in the world is goingon? I've un subbed and re subbe so many times, I feel like a schitzo! Frustratedly (if it ain't a word, it should be), Steve Steve and Julie Stillabower, Indianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net from RVenneri@aol.com Tue Nov 10 14:46:53 1998 Subject: Re: Test - again Steve I had the same trouble last week and the week before. Bob VRobert Venneri's Custom Components21 Chuck Hill RDSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882rvenneri@aol.com from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Nov 10 15:02:03 1998 Subject: Re: Test - again Steve,I got your test on the rodmakers list. Some while back I posted stuff tothe list about hollow building and slow action vs. fast and the appearanceofweight differences and the posts never showed on my e-mail. I haven't hadmanyposts this week and it may be a slow week. If anybody sees this let meknow.Thanks,Hank Woolman. from sjstill@iquest.net Tue Nov 10 15:09:33 1998 0000 (209.43.53.30) Subject: Thanks! Thanks BP2 and BV1 I guess I am getting some after all - mail that is Steve Steve and Julie Stillabower, Indianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net from rmoon@ida.net Tue Nov 10 15:26:18 1998 Subject: Re: Test - again You got to me HankRalph from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Nov 10 16:02:39 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Test - again Well I got all the tests I need but I haven't gotten any other mail is thisthing not working again?Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Nov 10 16:04:22 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Test - again List,I was wondering if anyone has a good taper for an 8' for a 4 Wght. Alsowaswondering if anyone had any glaced cotton thread for sale as I can't findanylocally that isn't 30 years old and laying in dusty old boxes at theupholstery shops.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Nov 10 16:21:58 1998 Subject: Re: Light week? Steve,I haven't seen much either but I put a question out there aboot a taper forand 8'er let's see what happens here.Bret from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us Tue Nov 10 16:36:22 1998 (envelope- from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us) (envelope- from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us) 1.21);10 Nov 98 17:35:37 EST EST Subject: Not A Test Everybody's testing, but nobody responds! Seems like the list is up and running, it's just that everyone is out doing other things like fishing! Does anyone have old planing forms that they don't use anymore that might be for sale? I've refinished 5 Montagues (well, some may say I've destroyed 'em!) and am ready. Joe Mulvey from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us Tue Nov 10 16:37:15 1998 (envelope- from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us) (envelope- from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us) 1.21);10 Nov 98 17:37:10 EST EST Subject: Re: Test - again I was wondering if anyone has a good taper for an 8' for a 4 Wght. Alsowaswondering if anyone had any glaced cotton thread for sale as I can't findanylocally that isn't 30 years old and laying in dusty old boxes at theupholstery shops.In one of the recent Planing Form newsletters I thought I saw where someone had purchased enough glaced cotton for several lifetimes and was looking to sell some. I believe he was from New Jersey... Joe Mulvey from jaquin@netsync.net Tue Nov 10 16:42:51 1998 quartz.netsync.net (8.8.5/8.6.12)with SMTP id RAA28563 for ; Tue, 10 Nov1998 17:42:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Light week? Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Steve,I haven't seen much either but I put a question out there aboot a taperforand 8'er let's see what happens here.Brethi bret on the glaced cotton try jon lintvet @ www.munrorodco.com from ljrp@penn.com Tue Nov 10 16:54:43 1998 Subject: Re: Light week? & List Looks like all is well again?? Jerry Quinn wrote: Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Steve,I haven't seen much either but I put a question out there aboot a taperforand 8'er let's see what happens here.Brethi bret on the glaced cotton try jon lintvet @ www.munrorodco.com from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Nov 10 18:51:50 1998 Subject: test again To all who answered my post -many thanks.Hank. from saltwein@swbell.net Tue Nov 10 19:57:25 1998 TAA03754 Subject: Tapers Hi All, I am looking for the following tapers, if anyone has them or can directme to them it would be greatly appreciated. Leonard 50DF38 ACM Payne 204 TIA & Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from flyrod6@juno.com Tue Nov 10 20:10:16 1998 21:09:56 EST Subject: Re: New to the List Welcome Dave, from the Lone Star state of Texas. Mark Hallowell On Sat, 7 Nov 1998 09:59:02 -0900 flyfish@alaska.net (Dave Goodman)writes:Greetings, My name is Dave Goodman and I've been on the list for a couple of weeksnow. I live in Anchorage, AK. I'm a cane rod user, not a builder (yet), butwanted to tell you all that I thoroughly enjoy the discussions that happenand information that is available here. It gives me a much betterappreciation of both the rods and the craftsmen who build them. Just wanted to say hello. Dave from flyrod6@juno.com Tue Nov 10 20:10:37 1998 21:09:56 EST Subject: Re: Thanks for all of the support. Paul Do you have a lathe you want to part with? Mark Hallowell On Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:23:11 -0000 "Paul Whitely" writes:This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BE09AA.210DDEC0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I just wanted to tell this group thanks for all of the rodbuilding =support over the years. I am now giving up rodbuilding, and getting rid =of all of my equipment and suppplies. I don't plan on getting back into =it, but rather spend a lot of time with my wife and family. Again =thanks for all of the support. Mrbamboo@quik.com Paul Whitely ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BE09AA.210DDEC0Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http-equiv=3DContent-Type> I just wanted to tell this group = plan = getting back into it, but rather spend a lot of time with my wife Paul =Whitely ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BE09AA.210DDEC0-- from channer@hubwest.com Tue Nov 10 20:16:10 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A3BE6C9008C; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 19:17:34 MST Subject: Re: Test - again At 05:00 PM 11/10/98 EST, you wrote:List,I was wondering if anyone has a good taper for an 8' for a 4 Wght. Alsowaswondering if anyone had any glaced cotton thread for sale as I can't findanylocally that isn't 30 years old and laying in dusty old boxes at theupholstery shops.Bret Bret;A while back A.J. Thramer was kind enough to post his Dx taper, if youneedit , I will be glad to forward it to you. John from flyfish@alaska.net Tue Nov 10 21:35:24 1998 (AKST) Subject: Re: New to the List Mark, Thanks. I lived in Texas fifteen years before moving to Alaska - Houston,Dallas and Midland. Great state but a little warm for me this past summer. This looks like a good place to be. Dave Welcome Dave, from the Lone Star state of Texas. Mark Hallowell On Sat, 7 Nov 1998 09:59:02 -0900 flyfish@alaska.net (Dave Goodman)writes:Greetings, My name is Dave Goodman and I've been on the list for a couple ofweeksnow. I live in Anchorage, AK. I'm a cane rod user, not a builder(yet), butwanted to tell you all that I thoroughly enjoy the discussions thathappenand information that is available here. It gives me a much betterappreciation of both the rods and the craftsmen who build them. Just wanted to say hello. Dave from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Tue Nov 10 23:51:20 1998 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id SAA20685 for ;Wed, 11 Nov 1998 18:50:18+1300 Subject: Resorcinal glue A number of people asked me to post the detailed information regardingresorcinal glue with set times at various temperatures . I did this last week but with the listserver problems it is possible thatsome of those who were interested may not have received it .I If you are one of those let me know and I will send it to you regards Iank from emiller257@dataflo.net Wed Nov 11 08:00:26 1998 wddataflo.dataflo.net(8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA26244 for ;Wed, 11 Nov 1998 07:45:00 Subject: Re: Test - again Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: List,I was wondering if anyone has a good taper for an 8' for a 4 Wght. Alsowaswondering if anyone had any glaced cotton thread for sale as I can't findanylocally that isn't 30 years old and laying in dusty old boxes at theupholstery shops.Bret Bret, there's a 8' 4 wt in the Rodmakers archive under A.J. Thramer.Also, Jon Lintvet sells glace cotton at the Munro Rods site on the Rodmakers page.Ed M. from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Nov 11 10:42:17 1998 (modemcable62.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: Culm selection BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_MzGBnx9xASRbOzxEVD4zNw)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_MzGBnx9xASRbOzxEVD4zNw) BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_DCQOfQ6KazvwAG7Ed8uzyQ)" --Boundary_(ID_DCQOfQ6KazvwAG7Ed8uzyQ) I have five 12 ft culms. Two are quite large in diameter, and three arequite a bit smaller. I was planning to use the smaller culms for lighterweight rods (3- 4 wt) and the larger culms for heavier rods (5-6 wt). I wasgoing to cut a culm in half and use the bottom section of the culm for thebutt section of a rod and the tip section of the culm for the tip section ofthe rod. But then I realized that the tip section of one of my large culmsis larger in diameter than the butt section of a smaller culm. So, wouldn'tI be better off using the large culms exclusively for butt sections of rodsand the smaller culms for tip sections. That would likely create buttsections with a greater depth of power fibers. Thanks in advance Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca --Boundary_(ID_DCQOfQ6KazvwAG7Ed8uzyQ) five 12 ft culms. Two are quite large in diameter, and three are quite a = smaller. I was planning to use the smaller culms for lighter weight rods = wt) and the larger culms for heavier rods (5-6 wt). I was going to cut a = half and use the bottom section of the culm for the butt section of a = the tip section of the culm for the tip section of the rod. But then I = that the tip section of one of my large culms is larger in diameter than = butt section of a smaller culm. So, wouldn't I be better off using the = culms exclusively for butt sections of rods and the smaller culms for = sections. That would likely create butt sections with a greater depth of = fibers. in advance Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca --Boundary_(ID_DCQOfQ6KazvwAG7Ed8uzyQ)-- --Boundary_(ID_MzGBnx9xASRbOzxEVD4zNw) mail).vcf" BEGIN:VCARDVERSION:2.1N:Nantel;Richard;;;FN:Richard Nantel (E-mail)ORG:Le groupe MENTOR;TITLE:TEL;WORK;VOICE:(514) 393- 3292TEL;HOME;VOICE:(514) 485-2287TEL;PAGER;VOICE:[1] (514) 111- 1111TEL;WORK;FAX:(514) 393-1483ADR;WORK:;;4374 Old Orchard Avenue;Monteal;Quebec;H4A 3B4;CanadaLABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:4374 Old Orchard =Avenue=3D0D=3D0AMonteal, Quebec H4A 3B4=3D0D=3D0ACanadaADR;HOME:;;4374 Old Orchard Avenue;Monteal;Quebec;H4A 3B4;CanadaLABEL;HOME;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:4374 Old Orchard =Avenue=3D0D=3D0AMonteal, Quebec H4A 3B4=3D0D=3D0ACanadaEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:richard.nantel@videotron.caREV:19980514T133343ZEND:VCARD --Boundary_(ID_MzGBnx9xASRbOzxEVD4zNw)-- from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Wed Nov 11 10:53:55 1998 ix1.ix.netcom.com via smap(V1.3) Subject: foot flattener If you are making your own snake guides, here's a foot flattener you maybeinterested in. Harbor Freight sells a 1 pound anvil for a buck 99. It'sto soft to flatten the snake feet on but it makes a good platform. Youalso need a couple of 6-32 screws about 3/4" long, a piece of 1/4"keystockabout 1 1/2 or 2 inches long and a 3/8" HSS lathe bit; ENCO has them forless than a buck. Drill two 1/8" holes in the top of the anvil; they need to be 1/2" apart ona line perpendicular to the centerline of the anvil and about 1/2" from thecenter of the anvil. Drill deep enough to thread 1/2" deep. Drill two9/64" holes in the 1/4" keystock; 1/2" apart with one hole about 1/4"fromone end of the keystock. Thread the two holes drilled in the anvil for6-32 thread. Now run the screws through the keystock and into the anvil. Place the3/8"HSS lathe bit so that one end is between the keystock and the anvil. Whenthe screws are tightened, the lathe bit will be snug against the anvil.The bit should extend across the center of the anvil. You actually haveadded a small anvil to the top of the 1 lb. anvil. Run a bead of aquariumcement (silicon sealer) along each side of the lathe bit and let it dryovernight. It's ready to use. To use the flattener, loosen the two screws just enough to allow you toslide a snake guide foot under the 1/4" keystock. Adjust the guide untilit is sitting as it will on the rod. Tighten the screws. Now hammer thefoot flat. Loosen the screws, reverse the guide and do the other foot.Since the flattened foot aligns the guide, the planarity of the feet willbe the same. If you get the foot a little off center on the first foot, itcan be adjusted before flattening the second foot. Just clamp it down andtwist it the appropriate amount. addendum: A small notch filed in the keystock will help position the guidefoot. Hex socket head screws allow you to loosen/tighten the screws withaAllen wrench. Two 1/4" hex socket head screws can be used to fix thelathebit instead of cement(snug one against each side of the bit). Finally,Harbor Freight has three small anvils; the 1 lb. for $1.99, a 8 lb. for$4.99 and a 15 lb. for $9.99. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from geneh@telenet.net Wed Nov 11 11:03:10 1998 0500 Subject: Test - the list been quiet? Please forgive the bandwidth, but I have not received anything fromRodmakers for a couple of days - Is the list that quiet?? ORM content - I have nearly finished my 2nd rod - WC's 7ft4wt2pcw/mod's asper Salarfly - thank you Wayne and Darryl. Many thanks to all Rodmakersforall of the insights, help and inspiration for this fine craft. Gene from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Nov 11 12:02:12 1998 Subject: Re: Test - the list been quiet? Gene, I sent out a message and haven't seen it. Not sure what the problemis. Finishing my second rod as well. Driggs 4 wt. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Gene Holowachuk Subject: Test - the list been quiet?Date: Wednesday, November 11, 1998 7:31 AM Please forgive the bandwidth, but I have not received anything fromRodmakers for a couple of days - Is the list that quiet?? ORM content - I have nearly finished my 2nd rod - WC's 7ft4wt2pcw/mod'sasper Salarfly - thank you Wayne and Darryl. Many thanks to all Rodmakersforall of the insights, help and inspiration for this fine craft. Gene from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Nov 11 12:02:48 1998 Subject: Saltwater Anyone have some input on what is needed to make a rod saltwatercapable? Different reelseat, different ferrules, different varnish, Urethane, etc..?Any input would be appreciated. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Nov 11 12:23:13 1998 (modemcable62.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: FW: Culm selection BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_+rFwR1r0NuVOTIQH3MdPlw)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_+rFwR1r0NuVOTIQH3MdPlw) I have five 12 ft culms. Two are quite large in diameter, and three arequite a bit smaller. I was planning to use the smaller culms for lighterweight rods (3- 4 wt) and the larger culms for heavier rods (5-6 wt). I wasgoing to cut a culm in half and use the bottom section of the culm for thebutt section of a rod and the tip section of the culm for the tip section ofthe rod. But then I realized that the tip section of one of my large culmsis larger in diameter than the butt section of a smaller culm. So, wouldn'tI be better off using the large culms exclusively for butt sections of rodsand the smaller culms for tip sections. That would likely create buttsections with a greater depth of power fibers. Thanks in advance Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca --Boundary_(ID_+rFwR1r0NuVOTIQH3MdPlw) five 12 ft culms. Two are quite large in diameter, and three are quite a = smaller. I was planning to use the smaller culms for lighter weight rods = wt) and the larger culms for heavier rods (5-6 wt). I was going to cut a = half and use the bottom section of the culm for the butt section of a = the tip section of the culm for the tip section of the rod. But then I = that the tip section of one of my large culms is larger in diameter than = butt section of a smaller culm. So, wouldn't I be better off using the = culms exclusively for butt sections of rods and the smaller culms for = sections. That would likely create butt sections with a greater depth of = fibers. in advance Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca --Boundary_(ID_+rFwR1r0NuVOTIQH3MdPlw)-- from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Nov 11 12:27:32 1998 (modemcable62.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Test - the list been quiet? Robert, Your's if the first post I've seen all day. I tried to put a post on but noluck. Unsubscribed and resubscibed. Nothing. Could it be that somecataclysmhas occurred and we're the last two humans on the planet? If so, I surehopethe fish survived. Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Test - the list been quiet? Gene, I sent out a message and haven't seen it. Not sure what the problemis. Finishing my second rod as well. Driggs 4 wt. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Gene Holowachuk Subject: Test - the list been quiet?Date: Wednesday, November 11, 1998 7:31 AM Please forgive the bandwidth, but I have not received anything fromRodmakers for a couple of days - Is the list that quiet?? ORM content - I have nearly finished my 2nd rod - WC's 7ft4wt2pcw/mod'sasper Salarfly - thank you Wayne and Darryl. Many thanks to all Rodmakersforall of the insights, help and inspiration for this fine craft. Gene from ljrp@penn.com Wed Nov 11 12:49:21 1998 Subject: Re: Test - the list been quiet? U bet and the Mayflies Richard Nantel wrote: Robert, Your's if the first post I've seen all day. I tried to put a post on but noluck. Unsubscribed and resubscibed. Nothing. Could it be that somecataclysmhas occurred and we're the last two humans on the planet? If so, I surehopethe fish survived. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 1998 12:56 PM Subject: Re: Test - the list been quiet? Gene, I sent out a message and haven't seen it. Not sure what theproblemis. Finishing my second rod as well. Driggs 4 wt. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Gene Holowachuk Subject: Test - the list been quiet?Date: Wednesday, November 11, 1998 7:31 AM Please forgive the bandwidth, but I have not received anything fromRodmakers for a couple of days - Is the list that quiet?? ORM content - I have nearly finished my 2nd rod - WC's 7ft4wt2pcw/mod'sasper Salarfly - thank you Wayne and Darryl. Many thanks to allRodmakersforall of the insights, help and inspiration for this fine craft. Gene from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Wed Nov 11 12:49:27 1998 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id HAA08575 for ;Thu, 12 Nov 1998 07:49:28+1300 Subject: Re: Culm selection Richard , Just a brief comment regarding cutting culms in half. I know it isnecessary recentarticle in the Planning form regarding cutting culms to place the nodes atthe best ( least worst?) place for the rod. Sorry , I cannot recall theauthor but I do acknowledge him. This article suggested that by looking carefully at the culm it waspossibleto cut the lengths for rod sections so as to minimise the number of nodesand also ensure the nodes were not in critical positions such as the end oftips or in the last 5 inches of the tip . In practise it means the thin endof the rod section is cut immediately below a node and the rod section ismeasured down from that point. For the tip section you then check thatthisdoes not place a node in the vacinity of the ferrule when you measuredown.You select the approriate culms for the length of rod you are building. The relevence of this to cutting culms in half is that I have found inbuilding 8 foot , 2 piece rods lately that cutting in half can restrict theflexibility for placement of nodes in the rod section. I had cut a number ofculms in half , because the "bible" said to , but had some uncut becausethey were easier to store in the garage roof. The ones I had cut in halfwere cut in the middle of a long internodal gap and were not really thebest which gave me the best nodal positions. In the future I would not cut culms in half but cut to the required rodsection length at the time of using the culm . This is a long winded way of saying it may be better not to cut the culmsinhalf if you do not need to .Not really an answer to your question but may beof interest . Iank At 11:06 AM 11/11/98 -0500, you wrote: I was.. deletedgoing to cut a culm in half and use the ... deletedThanks in advance Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Nov 11 13:17:00 1998 (modemcable62.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Culm selection Hi Ian, I have that most useful post printed and filed away somewhere. Assuming,though, that I don't go ahead and saw the culm in half, would it still bebeneficial to use smaller diameter 12 ft culms for tip sections and largerdiameter 12 ft culms for butts to ensure the greatest depth of powerfibersin the butt sections? Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Culm selection Richard , Just a brief comment regarding cutting culms in half. I know it isnecessary recentarticle in the Planning form regarding cutting culms to place the nodes atthe best ( least worst?) place for the rod. Sorry , I cannot recall theauthor but I do acknowledge him. This article suggested that by looking carefully at the culm it waspossibleto cut the lengths for rod sections so as to minimise the number of nodesand also ensure the nodes were not in critical positions such as the end oftips or in the last 5 inches of the tip . In practise it means the thin endof the rod section is cut immediately below a node and the rod section ismeasured down from that point. For the tip section you then check thatthisdoes not place a node in the vacinity of the ferrule when you measuredown.You select the approriate culms for the length of rod you are building. The relevence of this to cutting culms in half is that I have found inbuilding 8 foot , 2 piece rods lately that cutting in half can restrict theflexibility for placement of nodes in the rod section. I had cut a number ofculms in half , because the "bible" said to , but had some uncut becausethey were easier to store in the garage roof. The ones I had cut in halfwere cut in the middle of a long internodal gap and were not really thebest which gave me the best nodal positions. In the future I would not cut culms in half but cut to the required rodsection length at the time of using the culm . This is a long winded way of saying it may be better not to cut the culmsinhalf if you do not need to .Not really an answer to your question but may beof interest . Iank At 11:06 AM 11/11/98 -0500, you wrote: I was.. deletedgoing to cut a culm in half and use the... deletedThanks in advance Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Nov 11 13:40:20 1998 Subject: Re: Culm selection Ian / Richard That author of the article was John Bokstrom - copy of the articleis up on Frank Neunemann's homepage under articles: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/FNeunemann/BZBambooMain.html Chris On Thu, 12 Nov 1998 07:49:28 +1300, Ian Kearney wrote: Richard , Just a brief comment regarding cutting culms in half. I know it isnecessary recentarticle in the Planning form regarding cutting culms to place the nodes atthe best ( least worst?) place for the rod. Sorry , I cannot recall theauthor but I do acknowledge him. This article suggested that by looking carefully at the culm it waspossibleto cut the lengths for rod sections so as to minimise the number of nodesand also ensure the nodes were not in critical positions such as the endoftips or in the last 5 inches of the tip . In practise it means the thin endof the rod section is cut immediately below a node and the rod section ismeasured down from that point. For the tip section you then check thatthisdoes not place a node in the vacinity of the ferrule when you measuredown.You select the approriate culms for the length of rod you are building. The relevence of this to cutting culms in half is that I have found inbuilding 8 foot , 2 piece rods lately that cutting in half can restrict theflexibility for placement of nodes in the rod section. I had cut a numberofculms in half , because the "bible" said to , but had some uncut becausethey were easier to store in the garage roof. The ones I had cut in halfwere cut in the middle of a long internodal gap and were not really thebest which gave me the best nodal positions. In the future I would not cut culms in half but cut to the required rodsection length at the time of using the culm . This is a long winded way of saying it may be better not to cut the culmsinhalf if you do not need to .Not really an answer to your question but maybeof interest . Iank At 11:06 AM 11/11/98 -0500, you wrote: I was.. deletedgoing to cut a culm in half and use the ... deletedThanks in advance Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Wed Nov 11 13:51:21 1998 Subject: RE: Test - the list been quiet? At 13:28 11/11/98 -0500, you wrote:Robert, Your's if the first post I've seen all day. I tried to put a post on but noluck. Unsubscribed and resubscibed. Nothing. Could it be that somecataclysmhas occurred and we're the last two humans on the planet? If so, I surehopethe fish survived. Richard Richard, No such luck - heard the 4.5 billion survived - most of the golfers.You're in luck. Don from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Wed Nov 11 13:52:11 1998 Subject: Re: Culm selection At 07:49 12/11/98 +1300, you wrote: Richard , Just a brief comment regarding cutting culms in half. I know it isnecessary recentarticle in the Planning form regarding cutting culms to place the nodes atthe best ( least worst?) place for the rod. Sorry , I cannot recall theauthor but I do acknowledge him. Ian, John Bokstrom is the author - paper presented @ the last Merritt meeting- also on Frank Nuenemann's Web site. Originator of the training wheels forplanes and a host of other ideas. Has published scads of articles. neat guy- sometimes hangs around here. Rarely comments unless he can addsomething.If he does say something - pay attention. Don This article suggested that by looking carefully at the culm it waspossibleto cut the lengths for rod sections so as to minimise the number of nodesand also ensure the nodes were not in critical positions such as the endoftips or in the last 5 inches of the tip . In practise it means the thin endof the rod section is cut immediately below a node and the rod section ismeasured down from that point. For the tip section you then check thatthisdoes not place a node in the vacinity of the ferrule when you measuredown.You select the approriate culms for the length of rod you are building. The relevence of this to cutting culms in half is that I have found inbuilding 8 foot , 2 piece rods lately that cutting in half can restrict theflexibility for placement of nodes in the rod section. I had cut a numberofculms in half , because the "bible" said to , but had some uncut becausethey were easier to store in the garage roof. The ones I had cut in halfwere cut in the middle of a long internodal gap and were not really thebest which gave me the best nodal positions. In the future I would not cut culms in half but cut to the required rodsection length at the time of using the culm . This is a long winded way of saying it may be better not to cut the culmsinhalf if you do not need to .Not really an answer to your question but maybeof interest . Iank At 11:06 AM 11/11/98 -0500, you wrote: I was.. deletedgoing to cut a culm in half and use the ... deletedThanks in advance Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Nov 11 15:33:46 1998 0600 Subject: Re: Tapers Steve,Copied these out of the tapers I've gleaned from the list and thearchives over the last two years. Not sure this is the particular Leonard38 you're looking for. And I'm still looking for the 50DF myself. Acouple of list members have seached for it for me, but so far no luck.. Ifyou come up with it, please pass it along.Hope this helps,Harry Boyd A.J.Thramer wrote: This is the taper I have for a Leonard 38,0 .0645 .08010 .09215 .10520 .11825 .13030 .14035 .14840 .15645 .18150 .19855 .21260 .22365 .23570 .25075 27280 .290I don't know how accurate it isA.J.Thramer Don-The following is the Payne 204 taper I have. The rod was measured overvarnish and the rod was either overvarnished or had been badly redonebecause there were some drips in the varnish. The rod was miced by JohnChanner and posted to the list back in Feb. as an 81/2 Payne. John and Ie-mailed back and forth and finally came to the conclusion that it was a204.1 = .068, 5 = .090, 10 = .109, 15 = .129, 20 = .138, 25 = .150,30 = .160, 32.5 @ ferrule wrap =.168, 35 = .182, 40 = .201, 45 = .218,50 = .232, 55 = .242, 60 = .256, 64.75 just above the ferrule wrap =.262, 70 = .282, 75 = .294, 80 = .312, 85 = .327, 90 = .358start hookeeper wrap @ 92. Guides 4.5, 9.5, 15.5, 22.5, 29.75, 36.75, 43.5, 52, 61, 70.5, 79.5.If the tip and mid taper resembles your 204 then you can probably use thebutt #'s. Hope this helps. Best Dennis from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Wed Nov 11 16:56:27 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id QAA28553 for; Wed, (8.8.4/8.6.8) with SMTP idQAA13058 for ; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:56:25 Subject: Re: Tapers I'm attaching a taper archive to my web-based Hexrod program. TheLeonard 50DF is in there. Its not quite ready for prime-time yet,but if you go to http://www.uwm.edu/~stetzer/hexrod.html and click on "Don't try this option yet! STOP!" you will find it.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Wed, 11 Nov 1998, Harry Boyd wrote: Steve,Copied these out of the tapers I've gleaned from the list and thearchives over the last two years. Not sure this is the particular Leonard38 you're looking for. And I'm still looking for the 50DF myself. Acouple of list members have seached for it for me, but so far no luck.. Ifyou come up with it, please pass it along.Hope this helps,Harry Boyd from saltwein@swbell.net Wed Nov 11 17:01:00 1998 RAA02527 Subject: Re: Tapers Harry Boyd wrote: Steve,Copied these out of the tapers I've gleaned from the list and thearchives over the last two years. Not sure this is the particular Leonard38 you're looking for. And I'm still looking for the 50DF myself. Acouple of list members have seached for it for me, but so far no luck.. Ifyou come up with it, please pass it along.Hope this helps, Harry, Thanks for the tapers! I was just thinking about you last night and wasready to send you an email and found I didn't have your address. Ithink the gremlins have been at work again. What I was going to ask about is the dates for SRG II. I know it is along way off but I have to have my vacation bids ready on December 1st.If you can give me some parameters I may be able to bid two weeks to tryto block the time in. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from dhaftel@att.com Wed Nov 11 17:03:36 1998 sender att.com!dhaftel (att.com!dhaftel); Wed Nov 11 17:03 CST 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2 sol2) (5.5.2232.9) Subject: RE: Saltwater Robert, I think Bellinger makes a titanium reelseat for about a gazilliondollars. I would imagine stainless guides would be in order as well,no?On the other hand, I'd think if you just rinsed really well after you'redone fishing with lots of fresh water, you wouldn't need all that fancystuff.(?) Just my $0.02 Dennis -----Original Message----- Subject: Saltwater Anyone have some input on what is needed to make a rod saltwatercapable? Different reelseat, different ferrules, different varnish, Urethane, etc..?Any input would be appreciated. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu from anglport@con2.com Wed Nov 11 17:28:39 1998 Subject: Re: Culm selection Ian and Richard,When I got started the Demarests would let you come to theirwarehouse andselect your own cane from an opened bale or two. You could then take ithome any way that was feasible. I never could understand how fellowswhohad to have it shipped dealt with the center-cut that was necessitated byUPS!When I spoke with them and inquired about coming to their warehousetopick up some in whole pieces, I was told that they now share a warehousewith another party and I would have to walk in, grab a pack that they weregoing to send out anyway and take it home. End of story. Now I guess Illhave to find out how you distant fellows deal with 6 footers!Art At 07:49 AM 11/12/98 +1300, you wrote: Richard , Just a brief comment regarding cutting culms in half. I know it isnecessary recentarticle in the Planning form regarding cutting culms to place the nodes atthe best ( least worst?) place for the rod. Sorry , I cannot recall theauthor but I do acknowledge him. This article suggested that by looking carefully at the culm it waspossibleto cut the lengths for rod sections so as to minimise the number of nodesand also ensure the nodes were not in critical positions such as the endoftips or in the last 5 inches of the tip . In practise it means the thin endof the rod section is cut immediately below a node and the rod section ismeasured down from that point. For the tip section you then check thatthisdoes not place a node in the vacinity of the ferrule when you measuredown.You select the approriate culms for the length of rod you are building. The relevence of this to cutting culms in half is that I have found inbuilding 8 foot , 2 piece rods lately that cutting in half can restrict theflexibility for placement of nodes in the rod section. I had cut a numberofculms in half , because the "bible" said to , but had some uncut becausethey were easier to store in the garage roof. The ones I had cut in halfwere cut in the middle of a long internodal gap and were not really thebest which gave me the best nodal positions. In the future I would not cut culms in half but cut to the required rodsection length at the time of using the culm . This is a long winded way of saying it may be better not to cut the culmsinhalf if you do not need to .Not really an answer to your question but maybeof interest . Iank At 11:06 AM 11/11/98 -0500, you wrote: I was.. deletedgoing to cut a culm in half and use the ... deletedThanks in advance Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Nov 11 17:31:45 1998 Subject: Re: Saltwater In a message dated 11/11/98 6:23:06 PM, you wrote: Robert - Either spar or urethane is OK. I would abandon tradition and usemodern guides, which are more abraision resistant. Make the guidesoversize silverin salt water.Ferrules are a problem. If you make your own go with bronze, or monel ifyoucan get it. If you use nickel silver, wash them with soap and water aftereachuse. Not a bad idea for the whole rod, BTW. If you can stand the idea, use asplice joint instead of a ferrule. I have, and it works fine. from CALucker@aol.com Wed Nov 11 18:14:29 1998 Subject: Re: Culm selection In a message dated 11/11/98 4:03:24 PM Pacific Standard Time,richard.nantel@videotron.ca writes: Your question does not recognize that the diameter of a culm does notnecessarily correlate with the thickness or quality of the power fibers. Itisnot unusual for a smaller diameter culm to have higher quality powerfibersthan a larger culm. Hence the reason why hand-picking your culms isimportantif you want to avoid poor quality cane. Think about it this way -- is a 2x4 taken from a fat 45 year old DouglasFiralways better than a 2x4 taken from a skinnier 45 year old Douglas Fir? Chris Lucker from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Nov 11 18:41:12 1998 0600 Subject: Re: Tapers Thanks Frank!! I'll try it in a few minutes!andSteve,Next year's SRG will be October 28-30, (officially) and October 25-31unofficially. We'll begin with a meal Thursday evening, and officiallyconcludeSaturday evening. Details are still very much in the works, but I need tohear(off-list, please!) from some of you who are willing to make acommitment tohelping with next year's event. To get the facilities and dates we want,we needto get about 15 people serious about making this a really nice event. CharlesCurro is developing a web site for us. When it's ready, to prevent listbandwidth I'll only post short notices here referring the interested folksto thewebsite.The dates are firm. I'll be sharing more info as it is comes together. Soif you folks can help, let me know. (Off-list)Thanks,Harry Steve wrote: Harry Boyd wrote: Steve,Copied these out of the tapers I've gleaned from the list and thearchives over the last two years. Not sure this is the particularLeonard38 you're looking for. And I'm still looking for the 50DF myself. Acouple of list members have seached for it for me, but so far no luck.. Ifyou come up with it, please pass it along.Hope this helps, Harry, Thanks for the tapers! I was just thinking about you last night and wasready to send you an email and found I didn't have your address. Ithink the gremlins have been at work again. What I was going to ask about is the dates for SRG II. I know it is along way off but I have to have my vacation bids ready on December 1st.If you can give me some parameters I may be able to bid two weeks totryto block the time in. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from chris@artistree.com Wed Nov 11 18:54:00 1998 Subject: Re: Tapers (Hexrod) So that's what that button was for. Was using the program the othernight but didn't dare push that button for fear of screwing up mycalculations. By the way Frank, Thanks for keeping this program up andrunning for all. Really runs nice. In fact I'd have to say it's damnnear addictive to use.-- Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail:chris@artistree.com Frank Stetzer wrote: I'm attaching a taper archive to my web-based Hexrod program. TheLeonard 50DF is in there. Its not quite ready for prime-time yet,but if you go to http://www.uwm.edu/~stetzer/hexrod.html and click on "Don't try this option yet! STOP!" you will find it....................................................................... from fr.keulen@wxs.nl Wed Nov 11 20:23:09 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA178B +0100 Subject: Cheap components Dear listmembers, Does anyone among you have any experience with alternative rodfiitings. etc. I know they look cheaper, I realize they are not of the samequality, but I would be prepared to step over these drawbacks in orderto achieve a substantial reduction of the costs to produce a rod. I'mquite fond of making rods, I enjoy making as many rods of differenttapers as I can, but I'm always rather disappointed about the productioncost. When I make a rod for myself, I don't really care about cosmetics.I'm willing to put up with less than first rate cork. The grips lastjust as long. They are just as comfortable. I don't have to respond tothe high demands made by any customers. Cheap cork helps to reduce theprice. Now how about ferrules reelseats. Any cheap alternatives? Rens Oosthoek from flyrod6@juno.com Wed Nov 11 21:14:17 1998 22:13:27 EST Subject: Re: Saltwater Robert, Recommend that if your making a Bamboo rod for saltwater, Stainless isthe only way to go on the guides and my $.02 would be Poly for yourfinish. I'm in Corpus Christi, TX and I have not used my bamboo in thesaltwater. With the big fish and a big rod it can get pretty tiring. Let us no how it goes. Mark Hallowell PS Hi Dennis On Wed, 11 Nov 1998 18:03:25 -0500 "Haftel, Dennis J, BGM"writes:Robert, I think Bellinger makes a titanium reelseat for about a gazilliondollars. I would imagine stainless guides would be in order as well, no?On the other hand, I'd think if you just rinsed really well after you'redone fishing with lots of fresh water, you wouldn't need all that fancystuff.(?) Just my $0.02 Dennis -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 1998 11:04 AM Subject: Saltwater Anyone have some input on what is needed to make a rod saltwater capable? Different reelseat, different ferrules, different varnish, Urethane, etc..?Any input would be appreciated. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu from saweiss@flash.net Wed Nov 11 21:14:26 1998 Subject: Re: Culm selection Richard , Just a brief comment regarding cutting culms in half. I know it isnecessary recentarticle in the Planning form regarding cutting culms to place the nodes atthe best ( least worst?) place for the rod. Jack Howell, in his book, recommends splitting the 12' culm into 6 strips,then doing the layout for staggering and cutting. He claims that he getsmaximum flexibility in locating the ferrules and tips clear of the nodes.Steve Weiss from maxs@geocities.co.jp Wed Nov 11 23:27:56 1998 geocities.co.jp(8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id OAA19427 for; Thu, 12Nov 1998 14:27:48 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Cheap components F. Keulen wrote: Dear listmembers, Does anyone among you have any experience with alternative rodfiitings. etc. I know they look cheaper, I realize they are not of the samequality, but I would be prepared to step over these drawbacks in orderto achieve a substantial reduction of the costs to produce a rod. I'mquite fond of making rods, I enjoy making as many rods of differenttapers as I can, but I'm always rather disappointed about the productioncost. When I make a rod for myself, I don't really care about cosmetics.I'm willing to put up with less than first rate cork. The grips lastjust as long. They are just as comfortable. I don't have to respond tothe high demands made by any customers. Cheap cork helps to reduce theprice. Now how about ferrules reelseats. Any cheap alternatives? Rens Oosthoek Rens, Your thoughts to have as many rod in lower cost is also my interest. Iam making several rod parts myself. Top giude, snake guides, (soon stripping guide), reelseat (ring type) and cap, winding check and ferrules. I also made brass ferrules. Brass is easymetal to turn on lathe.Brass is a little lighter in weight than Nickel Silver and softer, soits nature is suitable for ferrules.Brass ferrule tends to bend with rod, so it might not give direct stresson to the foot of ferrule on bamboo. But a little easy to be worn out in comparison to NS. May bealright to fish several ten times. Alminum is too weak for ferrule ifthe same sizing (thickness of sleeve, wall of ferrule) is used inturning, but usable for reel seat, ring and cap. I am purchasing the metal stocks from a whole seller. The cost for eachferrule is very low. To make things in lower cost, and if you will make as many number ofrods as you can justify the tools cost suchas for lathe, is to makethings yourself. Pictures of rods on my home page show you those exapmles. Max -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Nov 11 23:48:28 1998 Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:48:19 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Cheap components On Tue, 10 Nov 1998, F. Keulen wrote: Dear listmembers, Does anyone among you have any experience with alternative rodfiitings. etc. I know they look cheaper, I realize they are not of the samequality, but I would be prepared to step over these drawbacks in orderto achieve a substantial reduction of the costs to produce a rod. I'mquite fond of making rods, I enjoy making as many rods of differenttapers as I can, but I'm always rather disappointed about the productioncost. When I make a rod for myself, I don't really care about cosmetics.I'm willing to put up with less than first rate cork. The grips lastjust as long. They are just as comfortable. I don't have to respond tothe high demands made by any customers. Cheap cork helps to reduce theprice. Now how about ferrules reelseats. Any cheap alternatives? Rens Oosthoek Rens,no problem with what you are after. Brass does seem quite OK as ferrules but prob wont last quite as long before the fe-male begins to bell but then again it may take a lot before this happens.Al prob wont work. I would think it's gall and bind reasonably soon unles it just cracked first.Reel seats are easy to make if you're happy with slip rings and since you'll need a lathe making screw type reel seats is easy enough given time.Drink plenty of good wine and keep the cork. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Nov 12 00:35:05 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Cheap components Has anyone tried mating an aluminum ferrule with a brass one? Gearmakerssometimes take advantage of the "self lubricating" effect you get usingthose two metals together. George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Cheap components On Tue, 10 Nov 1998, F. Keulen wrote: Dear listmembers, Does anyone among you have any experience with alternativerodfiitings. etc. I know they look cheaper, I realize they are not of the samequality, but I would be prepared to step over these drawbacks in orderto achieve a substantial reduction of the costs to produce a rod. I'mquite fond of making rods, I enjoy making as many rods of differenttapers as I can, but I'm always rather disappointed about the productioncost. When I make a rod for myself, I don't really care about cosmetics.I'm willing to put up with less than first rate cork. The grips lastjust as long. They are just as comfortable. I don't have to respond tothe high demands made by any customers. Cheap cork helps to reduce theprice. Now how about ferrules reelseats. Any cheap alternatives? Rens Oosthoek Rens,no problem with what you are after. Brass does seem quite OK as ferrulesbut prob wont last quite as long before the fe-male begins to bell butthen again it may take a lot before this happens.Al prob wont work. I would think it's gall and bind reasonably soon unlesit just cracked first.Reel seats are easy to make if you're happy with slip rings and sinceyou'll need a lathe making screw type reel seats is easy enough giventime.Drink plenty of good wine and keep the cork. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Thu Nov 12 01:11:24 1998 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id UAA22443 for ;Thu, 12 Nov 1998 20:11:19+1300 Subject: Re: Cheap components At 03:58 PM 10/11/98 +0100, you wrote:Dear listmembers, Deleted.. Any cheap alternatives? Rens Oosthoek Rens, I follow some advice Sir D gave me some time ago and buy the made upcorkhandles from Anglers Workshop . They are not too expensive , even in ourpoor New Zealand dollars, and of quite good quality . I think I am going to have to buy a lathe to solve the ferrule cost problemthough . regards Iank from chris@artistree.com Thu Nov 12 03:37:59 1998 Subject: Re: Cheap components I understand that Mr. Wojnicki has introduced a "internally reinforcedfiberglass ferrule in place of nickel silver ferrules" on some of hislatest rods. Wonder what that's all about. Guess it saves on weight butjust how strong is it? Anyone see one of these rods yet? -- Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail:chris@artistree.com from jpsnbs@erols.com Thu Nov 12 05:06:23 1998 Subject: Re: Cheap components My first several rods were not only made with less expensive componentsbutwith bamboo harvested from near my home in Maryland. These rods were use and a few made for close friends. To date, after a little over twodozen rods, I own only two of my own and fish one them exclusively since1992. The brass ferrule is still snug and the benefits of an aluminum reelseat, with a N/S plated appearance, is reduced weight. I would imaginethattrying to purchace a ferrule with two males might pose a problem sincesizing is not too accurate from one to another. I still use bettercomponents on rods I donate or sell. I too am interested in the fiberglassferrules.Joe Swamjpsnbs@erols.com----- Original Message----- Subject: Cheap components Dear listmembers, Does anyone among you have any experience with alternative rodfiitings. etc. I know they look cheaper, I realize they are not of the samequality, but I would be prepared to step over these drawbacks in orderto achieve a substantial reduction of the costs to produce a rod. I'mquite fond of making rods, I enjoy making as many rods of differenttapers as I can, but I'm always rather disappointed about the productioncost. When I make a rod for myself, I don't really care about cosmetics.I'm willing to put up with less than first rate cork. The grips lastjust as long. They are just as comfortable. I don't have to respond tothe high demands made by any customers. Cheap cork helps to reduce theprice. Now how about ferrules reelseats. Any cheap alternatives? Rens Oosthoek from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Nov 12 06:12:54 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Cheap components Look in Hook and Hackle catalog I believe they sell inexpensive ferrules .Bret from dpeaston@wzrd.com Thu Nov 12 07:11:15 1998 mail.wzrd.com (8.9.1/8.7.3)with SMTP id IAA13803 for ; Thu, 12 Nov Subject: Re: Tapers (Hexrod) At 04:55 PM 11/11/98 +0000, you wrote:So that's what that button was for. Was using the program the othernight but didn't dare push that button for fear of screwing up mycalculations. By the way Frank, Thanks for keeping this program up andrunning for all. Really runs nice. In fact I'd have to say it's damnnear addictive to use.-- Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail:chris@artistree.com Frank Stetzer wrote: I'm attaching a taper archive to my web-based Hexrod program. TheLeonard 50DF is in there. Its not quite ready for prime-time yet,but if you go to http://www.uwm.edu/~stetzer/hexrod.html and click on "Don't try this option yet! STOP!" you will find it....................................................................... I'll second that, Chris! Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from channer@hubwest.com Thu Nov 12 07:18:28 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A085A280152; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 06:20:05 MST Subject: Re: Cheap components At 07:12 AM 11/12/98 EST, you wrote:Look in Hook and Hackle catalog I believe they sell inexpensive ferrules .Bret Angler's Workshop has plated brass ferrules meant for fiberglass rods,theystep down 1/64. John from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Thu Nov 12 09:35:27 1998 ix7.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Cheap components I don't know but I am going to give it a try. I know a store that hasaluminum rods just the right size to make the male end of the ferrule. Iwill let you know how it works out. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com Has anyone tried mating an aluminum ferrule with a brass one? Gearmakerssometimes take advantage of the "self lubricating" effect you get usingthose two metals together. from tomchandler@earthlink.net Thu Nov 12 09:55:12 1998 Subject: Re: Saltwater If you can stand the idea, use asplice joint instead of a ferrule. I have, and it works fine. This has always intruiged me. Is there any source of information abouthowto do this? (i.e. do you use a cord to bind it, what kind of angle for thebias cut, how to finish the surfaces, etc). Take care,TC from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Nov 12 10:02:39 1998 0600 Subject: Re: Tapers Frank,The "not ready for prime time" page is really nice. Can't wait till it isready for prime time. Your diligence and hard work have made empiricalroddesign and modification accessible to many of us. Thanks for all you do!I checked out the 50DF taper, and IMHO, I'm fairly sure that's not anoriginal Leonard 50 DF. If it's considered a 50DF Tournament -- I'm notsurewhat the "Tournament" designation means.I cast Dennis's "Mystery Rod" at the SRG this October. It's a wonderfulrod,and is on my short list of rods I gotta make. On the other hand, at onetime Iowned and fished regularly with an original Leonard 50DF. I sure wish Ihad mikedthat rod before I let it go for a song and dance. But that was before mybuild-it-myself obsession days.They are not the same rod at all. The "Mystery Rod" is a much stronger,faster taper. The Mystery Rod is two-piece, and I think all the original50DF'swere 3 piece rods. If I remember correctly, later discussions decided thisMystery Rod may be a Dickerson taper built with Leonard hardware.Jump in here anywhere Dennis! (or anyone else...) And I'll keep searchingforthe illusive Leonard 50DF, 3-piece 5 weight rod. Thanks again,Harry Frank Stetzer wrote: I'm attaching a taper archive to my web-based Hexrod program. TheLeonard 50DF is in there. >snipped from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Nov 12 10:09:43 1998 0600 Subject: Re: foot flattener Onis,Dave LeClair suggests using really inexpensive T-Slot nuts from MSC,and aball peen hammer. Works great. Costs about $3, plus the hammer. Put thenutsin your vice, drop in the guide, upside down. Give it a good whack with thehammer. Both feet are flattened at one time, and always come outparallel. Ifyou're interested, I'll share the details, or just ask Dave.Regards,Harry Onis Cogburn wrote: If you are making your own snake guides, here's a foot flattener you maybeinterested in. >snipped from tomchandler@earthlink.net Thu Nov 12 10:24:32 1998 Subject: Re: Tapers I checked out the 50DF taper, and IMHO, I'm fairly sure that's not anoriginal Leonard 50 DF. If it's considered a 50DF Tournament -- I'm notsurewhat the "Tournament" designation means. I wondered about this too; A builder in Nashville (Jim Beasley) builds an 8'5wt that he says is taken from a Leonard 50DF Tournament. His was a 3-pcrod, as were all the "standard" 50DF rods I see in listings. It was a joy tocast, but "powerful" is not the word I'd use to describe it. If anyone lives near Dana Gray perhaps he could help -- I believe he has a50DF Tournament in his collection. Frankly, I'd love to have the originaltaper myself. I'd call him but I'm leaving for three days of fishing beforethe season closes out here in CA. Take care,TC from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Nov 12 10:31:29 1998 (modemcable62.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: foot flattener Hi Harry, I've been spending relaxing evenings sitting on the couch making snakeguides. I've yet to flatten the feet, though, so would love to have detailson how you do this. Thanks in advance Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: foot flattener Onis,Dave LeClair suggests using really inexpensive T-Slot nuts from MSC,andaball peen hammer. Works great. Costs about $3, plus the hammer. Put thenutsin your vice, drop in the guide, upside down. Give it a good whack with thehammer. Both feet are flattened at one time, and always come outparallel.Ifyou're interested, I'll share the details, or just ask Dave.Regards,Harry Onis Cogburn wrote: If you are making your own snake guides, here's a foot flattener you maybeinterested in. >snipped from LambersonW@missouri.edu Thu Nov 12 10:39:09 1998 (5.5.2232.9) Subject: RE: foot flattener Harry: I have a blacksmith's anvil that has a hole of perfect size for theloop of the guide. Like you say, the guide hangs nicely and with a largehammer you can do both feet at once. It works great and the size of thetool makes you feel like you are really doing something. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, November 12, 1998 10:06 AM Subject: Re: foot flattener Onis,Dave LeClair suggests using really inexpensive T-Slotnuts from MSC, and aball peen hammer. Works great. Costs about $3, plus thehammer. Put the nutsin your vice, drop in the guide, upside down. Give it agood whack with thehammer. Both feet are flattened at one time, and alwayscome out parallel. Ifyou're interested, I'll share the details, or just ask Dave.Regards,Harry Onis Cogburn wrote: If you are making your own snake guides, here's a footflattener you may beinterested in. >snipped from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Nov 12 10:54:20 1998 0600 Subject: Re: foot flattener Richard,Here's a quote from a note Dave sent me some time ago:"The best way to flatten the feet is using a tool that I used to make andsellcalled The Flat Foot.I don't make them anymore,but you can buy the samething from MSC Tool Corp. for Around $5.00. Part # 06898027 $1.70 and# 06898050 $1.91. These are called T-Slot Nuts made for a millingmachine.Using these will flatten both feet at the same time." It really is so simple as to be brilliant.1. Order the T-Slot nuts. (you may want to slightly bevel the threadedopening after they arrive)2. Case harden the nuts with Kasenite (sp?) Anybody can do this. Itmakesthem last longer.3. Place the nut in your vise, with the jaws tightened around the narrowsection and the wider section on top of the jaws.4. Drop in your snake guide with the ring down. Each foot will be on oneside of the opening in the nut.5. One quick blow with with a ball peen hammer flattens both feet.Experiment a little to figure out how hard to hit it. I love this trick. I have a friend who has an entire toolbox filled withnothing but hammers. His motto, "If at first you don't succeed, get abiggerhammer." Harry Richard Nantel wrote: Hi Harry,snipped on how you do this.>snipped from Chris.Journigan@nau.edu Thu Nov 12 11:18:56 1998 with ESMTP id forRODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Subject: split seams I recently recieved my first bamboo project. In the butt section of this rod there several splits from one to two inches long. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to pull these cracks back together. As I said I'm newat this. The splits are all right at the nodes an don't seem to want to pull in. I don't know who made this rod, but "Wilson's Fly King", was written on itin white ink. from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Nov 12 11:19:59 1998 Subject: Re: Saltwater Tom - For information on the splice joint, check out issue 32 of ThePlaningForm. Cut the joint with the Splicing jig from Garrison, and on the back ofeach half of the joint, glue a reinforcing strip. The reinforcement is atriangular cane strip planed to the same size as the strips in the splice.They are glued back to back (power fiber to power fiber) to the top andbottomof the splice. Then they are sanded to a rounded shape, tapering at eachend.The net result is an oval cross section at the center of the assembledjoint.Join with electrical tape. I finished the faces of the splice with gunstockoil, after I had some trouble with the varnish chafing off. I may not havewaited long enough for the varnish to completely cure. The system looksoddand is not as convienent as a ferrule, but works fine and improves thecastingability of the rod. from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Thu Nov 12 11:20:00 1998 (5.5.2407.0) Does anybody have Tom Morgans e-mail address? If anybody needs anyagate tiptops for rods for silk fly line, I just got some from Russ at Golden Witch(no financial interest) Rods this weekend and they are old and good. from phillips@library.ucsf.edu Thu Nov 12 11:32:31 1998 Subject: Fibergalss Ferrules At 01:38 AM 11/12/98 +0000, you wrote:I understand that Mr. Wojnicki has introduced a "internally reinforcedfiberglass ferrule in place of nickel silver ferrules" on some of hislatest rods. Wonder what that's all about. Guess it saves on weight butjust how strong is it? Anyone see one of these rods yet? In the Scott Rod Company catalog, the only Wojnicki rods offered w/ afiberglass ferrule are 1 wt rods.They're going fo $3,500, but you get silk line too. John Phillips from CPETERS@rivertrade.com Thu Nov 12 11:34:09 1998 with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:06:48 -0600 Subject: Re: Lathes Following the thread on cheap components suggests a related question:where can you find a cheaplathe? I have had no luck finding anything used for sale and have borroweda friend's lathewhen I have needed one. Since I want to remain friends with thisindividual and will have tosatisfy his expensive taste in scotch if I keep borrowing his equipment, Ineed to find a lathe What are the choices? Sherline is mentioned everywhere. A Sherlinelong-bed 4400 appears tocost in the neighborhood of $600+. I have not yet found an outlet for theEdelstaal that I havebeen borrowing. Are there any other choices? What are others using? from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Nov 12 12:31:50 1998 via smap (4.1) 10:39:22 PST Subject: RE: Split Seams If you're describing glue seams or gaps as opposed to delaminations then there isn't anything you can do to bring the bamboo splines together. These extra large seams were the result of quick and dirty rodmaking, although the rod probably fishes the same with or without the seams, andit sounds like it isn't broken. It's mostly a cosmetic thing at this point. You could fill the gaps with a wood filler or glue so your finish coat of varnish looks smooth. If the seams are somewhere along the rod that will experience flex be sure to use a flexible filler. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Thu Nov 12 13:00:55 1998 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id IAA00209 for ;Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:00:54+1300 Subject: Re: split seams Chris , You may be able to bind by hand using some strong string. Alternatively Iuse my binder of the Tom Smithfield design for this type of restoring. Youcan get the design from the rodmakers home page . They are easy and quicktomake.I have used old lawnmower wheels and a wooden frame and they costaround $15 for materials. I push the glue in the split using toothpicks and then run through thebinder. I must say I do not have confidence in a full glue spread into smallsplits and always rate rods where there has been delamination as wallhangers rather then for fishing. Others may be more expert then me or mayhave more through techniques. regards Iank At 10:11 AM 12/11/98 -0700, you wrote:I recently recieved my first bamboo project. In the butt section of thisrod there several splits from one to two inches long. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to pull these cracks back together. As I said I'm newat this. The splits are all right at the nodes an don't seem to want to pull in. I don't know who made this rod, but "Wilson's Fly King", was written on itin white ink. from Chris.Journigan@nau.edu Thu Nov 12 14:14:51 1998 with ESMTP id for Subject: RE: Split Seams ===== Original Message from rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu =====If you're describing glue seams or gaps as opposed to delaminations thenthere isn't anything you can do to bring the bamboo splines together.These extra large seams were the result of quick and dirty rodmaking,although the rod probably fishes the same with or without the seams, anditsounds like it isn't broken. It's mostly a cosmetic thing at this point.You could fill the gaps with a wood filler or glue so your finish coat ofvarnish looks smooth. If the seams are somewhere along the rod thatwillexperience flex be sure to use a flexible filler. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.eduI'm sorry, yes ,the splits are on the glue joints. I'll clean them out with a razor blade and try some epoxy. Thank you for your help.Chris Journigancej4@jan.ucc.nau.edu from Chris.Journigan@nau.edu Thu Nov 12 14:25:45 1998 with ESMTP id for Subject: RE: split seams ===== Original Message from Ian Kearney =====Chris , You may be able to bind by hand using some strong string. Alternatively Iuse my binder of the Tom Smithfield design for this type of restoring. Youcan get the design from the rodmakers home page . They are easy andquick tomake.I have used old lawnmower wheels and a wooden frame and theycostaround $15 for materials. I push the glue in the split using toothpicks and then run through thebinder. I must say I do not have confidence in a full glue spread into smallsplits and always rate rods where there has been delamination as wallhangers rather then for fishing. Others may be more expert then me ormayhave more through techniques. regards Iank At 10:11 AM 12/11/98 -0700, you wrote:I recently recieved my first bamboo project. In the butt section of thisrodthere several splits from one to two inches long. Does anyone have anysuggestions on how to pull these cracks back together. As I said I'm newatthis. The splits are all right at the nodes an don't seem to want to pull in.I don't know who made this rod, but "Wilson's Fly King", was written onit inwhite ink. It's the glue joints that have split. I'll check out the binder and try some epoxy. Thanks for your suggestions.Chris Journigancej4@jan.ucc.nau.edu from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Thu Nov 12 14:48:45 1998 0500 Subject: First impressions Apologies to all the experienced pros on the list - this is really forall the newbies who, like me, hung back for months and months absorbinginformation and technqiues and fantasizing about that first culm. Entryinto this craft can be awfully intimidating. If you read Garrison, eventhe initial splitting sounds like a fantastically complicated operation,requiring special home-crafted "splitting knives" and complicatednumerating systems. Elsewhere there is talk of costly imported bamboofroes, etc. Well, I split my first culm this weekend. I did it usingan old meat cleaver we had lying around, a screwdriver, and my barehands. I used nothing but my hands to drive the split when I got downto the final strips. No c clamps, no special knives, no nothing.(Well, OK, I used the cleaver to START the split...) The big secret thatI discovered, that you don't read about in the books or technicalpostings, is what sensual fun this is. The cane makes a lovely zzzipsound as it comes apart, punctuated by crack! at the nodes. It has aclean, slightly sweet smell, and the enamel is slick and cool under yourfingers, making the pith feel soft and rough. You get to feel in yourhands what the word "power" means in "power fibres", because thesefibres keep the split running pretty much straight. It runs down itschannel pretty much by itself. Once you learn not to go too fast, it isthe easiest thing in the world to control the split so that it doesn'twander. For the most part, it doesn't seem to want to wander, held in towards which you want the split to go (that is, most likely, the thickone) and hold the other side as straight as you can and, in a fewinches, the split will move gradually back on center. Its probably presumptuous of me to offer advice at this stage of myapprenticeship - really the advice I have is, just go ahead and do it! from rmoon@ida.net Thu Nov 12 15:35:50 1998 Subject: Re: First impressions No presumption seen, Seth. If only more beginners would follow youradvice and just go ahead and do it, they too would experience the greatsatisfaction that comes from learning by doing. Congratulations.Ralph Moon from rclarke@eou.edu Thu Nov 12 17:07:51 1998 Subject: Re: First impressions Seth, Ralph offers great advice (as usual!). Just the act of doing it willteach a tremendous amount. I am on my second rod and see a drasticdifference from the first in my technique, speed, and the final product. Keep up the good work! Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu from fiveside@net-gate.com Thu Nov 12 18:04:59 1998 (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA21043 for ;Thu, 12 Nov 1998 19:05:31 Subject: Re; Culm Selection To the List.Where to cut the culm is one just less problem for nodeless types. Bill from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Nov 12 18:52:29 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Lathes Gee, Curt, when I was looking for a lathe, I found the following to be true:1) They are always where you're not2) They always sell before you see the ad for the first time So, #1 is persevere!!!! I answered postings on the internet and ads in thepaper (about 20-25) over a period of about 4-5 months before I got therefirst on a good lathe (you might want to check out http://www.darex.comandgo to their classified ads -- sometimes some good ones show up there,another site to check is Meridian Machinery at http://www.mermac.com ---these are the only two whose URL's I remember - -- that should give you anindication of how useful I think they are). I had considered Sherline, Prazi, Grizzley, Jet, used South Bend, usedLogan, and used Atlas. I decided that I wanted power feeds (both cross andlongitudinal), the ability to turn ferrules, reel seats, grips, and maybeeven a fly reel (Sherline & Prazi -- non-stratosperically-priced Prazi's --drop out here). Then, I decided I wanted both a good range of accessoriesavailable and good parts availability -- and was left with South Bend andLogan. Found the South Bend first. (52 year old lathe & probably easier toget parts for than a new Asian lathe PLUS it is super-easy to get ALL mymoney back out of it.) Hope my ramblings help you to make a decision. (BTW--What I got was a9"South Bend Model A, quick-change gearbox, 12 speeds, 4-1/2' bed, with 3Ccollet set, collet closer, two 4J chucks, one 3J chuck, toolpost grinder,boring bar set, Jacobs chuck on Morse taper to fit in tailstock, large drillbits, two 4-way tool holders, in home use for the last 30+ years by thesamefamily -- I am its third owner, and in very non-competitive NorthernCalifornia this set me back $1200. A week after I bought it, there was a10" SB advertised in the local paper for $600. Just look, look, look anddon't get discouraged.) Good luck!George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Lathes Following the thread on cheap components suggests a related question:wherecan you find a cheap lathe? I have had no luck finding anything used forsale and have borrowed a friend's lathe when I have needed one. Since Iwant to remain friends with this individual and will have to satisfy hisexpensive taste in scotch if I keep borrowing his equipment, I need to finda lathe for myself. What are the choices? Sherline is mentioned everywhere. A Sherlinelong-bed 4400 appears to cost in the neighborhood of $600+. I have notyetfound an outlet for the Edelstaal that I have been borrowing. Are there anyother choices? What are others using? from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Nov 12 18:53:28 1998 Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:53:03 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Lathes On Thu, 12 Nov 1998, CURT PETERSEN wrote: Following the thread on cheap components suggests a related question:where can you find acheap lathe? I have had no luck finding anything used for sale and haveborrowed a friend'slathe when I have needed one. Since I want to remain friends with thisindividual and will haveto satisfy his expensive taste in scotch if I keep borrowing his equipment,I need to find alathe for myself. What are the choices? Sherline is mentioned everywhere. A Sherlinelong-bed 4400 appears tocost in the neighborhood of $600+. I have not yet found an outlet for theEdelstaal that I havebeen borrowing. Are there any other choices? What are others using? The Sherline is a very good choice for ferules and will do reel seats, however the "old hands" on the list would recomend something bigger and I have to agree. I hate to say this but the Tiawaneese lathese can be very good with extremly accurate chucks and so I'd advise you to not just bypass looking at these just because the finish is a bit rought. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Nov 12 18:55:05 1998 Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:54:53 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: First impressions On Thu, 12 Nov 1998, Seth Steinzor wrote: Apologies to all the experienced pros on the list - this is really forall the newbies who, like me, hung back for months and months absorbinginformation and technqiues and fantasizing about that first culm. Entryinto this craft can be awfully intimidating. If you read Garrison, eventhe initial splitting sounds like a fantastically complicated operation, /*chop*/ IMHO if you are just starting *don't* read Garrison. Tony from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Nov 12 18:57:16 1998 Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:57:07 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Re; Culm Selection On Thu, 12 Nov 1998, Bill Fink wrote: To the List.Where to cut the culm is one just less problem for nodeless types. Bill It's a beautiful thing. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from LECLAIR123@aol.com Thu Nov 12 19:07:09 1998 Subject: Re: foot flattener Richard,MSC Tool Co. part # 06898027 and # 06898050These will work good for flattening the feet of your snakeguides. Dave LeClair from LECLAIR123@aol.com Thu Nov 12 19:25:01 1998 Subject: Fwd: Lathe Question to Joe E. boundary="part0_910920261_boundary" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_910920261_boundary --part0_910920261_boundary Subject: Fwd: Lathe Question boundary="part1_910920261_boundary" --part1_910920261_boundary --part1_910920261_boundary Subject: Re: Lathe Question Joe,The first thing to remember is, don't buy a very smalllathe. Some of the lathes on the market, advertised as beingsuitable for rod builders, are too small. They also do not havethe capability of holding close tolerances that are needed atleast a 3/4in. hole through the head stock. If you are goingto make reel seats. Also, make sure that the lathe has anautomatic feed for the tool post. You can't get a good enoughfinish moving the cutter along the work by hand. It must be done by the lathe, at a very slow rate of travel.You should also look for a lathe that has levers to change speeds, rather than by changing the gears every timeyou want to change the rate of travel.The best thing is to check the news paper for peopleselling used lathes or check with some local machine shops.Sometimes they will have a lathe there that they don't useanymore. I have a South Bend Tool Room lathe. 9in.That means you can turn something up to 9in. in diam.Something around this size is ideal for what you want to do.Used lathes like this can be bought for $500.00 to $1500.00depending on there age, what tooling comes with it, etc.Try to stick with a good name brand. South Bend, Atlas, etc. I hope this helps. If you have any other questions, just e-mail me. Dave --part1_910920261_boundary-- --part0_910920261_boundary-- from channer@hubwest.com Thu Nov 12 20:55:39 1998Received: from (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A009D2D0144; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 19:57:13 MST Subject: Re: Lathes At 10:06 AM 11/12/98 -0600, you wrote:Following the thread on cheap components suggests a related question:where can you find a cheap lathe? I have had no luck finding anything used I want to remain friends with thisindividual and will have to satisfy his expensive taste in scotch if Ikeep borrowing his equipment, I need to find a lathe for myself. What are the choices? Sherline is mentioned everywhere. A Sherlinelong-bed 4400 appears to cost in the neighborhood of $600+. I have notyetfound an outlet for the Edelstaal that I have been borrowing. Are thereany other choices? What are others using? Curt;Grizzly sells a small lathe that will turn threads and has a 15"(I think)capacity. It is around $750, depending on sales. I have a J.C. Bogemanlathe that was $300 with motor and tool set and headstock drilled out to3/8" and 3 jaw chuck. It can be coaxed out to 10" between centers. I onlyuse it for turning bamboo and cork and it works just fine. I suppose Imight want a better lathe for turning reel seat and ferrule hardware, butat the moment I would rather buy hardware and spend my time planingcane. 2c's John from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Thu Nov 12 22:16:26 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Thu,12Nov 1998 23:25:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Fwd: Lathe Question to Joe E. Dave made some very sound comments. I would comment however, that not everyone has room for a southbend. The more customers I meet, the more I realize a lot of folks out there are building rods in apartments or houses. This is where the Sherlines and the like are great. We need to get John Z. to speak up. We had a Sherline at Roscoe and were enlightened. Power feed, as accurate as you want to make it, taper turning by a swinging headstock...no need to go on. I would give my girlfriend in a trade pay for it to be moved every 9 months. Take care,Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.munrorodco.com from flyrod6@juno.com Thu Nov 12 22:22:03 1998 23:21:48 EST Subject: Re: Lathes Curt Dale Clemens sells a small rod builders lathe that you can get a threejaw chuck for. It comes out to about $350.00 approximately. AlsoLiechtung at 1 800 321 6840 has a set up for a drill to hook up to. Thisis not the cheap version with the plastic mount. It comes with a alumbed and a tail stock. Both are good starters if you have nothing likeus. The clemens version uses basically a sewing machine motor, so if youwant to cut costs tell all of the relatives and friends you need a motor.I got three when I asked. Now all I have to do is get the head stockand the bed. I'll make the rest. For the tail stock I will use slidingglass door wheels that are nylon and set it up with two under and oneover the rod to hold in place. I have used these for wrapping (with an Oring in the groove). You can now buy these with ball bearings in them. Have fun! Mark Hallowell On Thu, 12 Nov 1998 20:36:49 john channer writes:At 10:06 AM 11/12/98 - 0600, you wrote:Following the thread on cheap components suggests a related question:where can you find a cheap lathe? I have had no luck finding anything used SinceI want to remain friends with thisindividual and will have to satisfy his expensive taste in scotch if Ikeep borrowing his equipment, I need to find a lathe for myself. What are the choices? Sherline is mentioned everywhere. A Sherlinelong-bed 4400 appears to cost in the neighborhood of $600+. I have not yetfound an outlet for the Edelstaal that I have been borrowing. Are thereany other choices? What are others using? Curt;Grizzly sells a small lathe that will turn threads and has a 15"(I think)capacity. It is around $750, depending on sales. I have a J.C. Bogemanlathe that was $300 with motor and tool set and headstock drilled out to3/8" and 3 jaw chuck. It can be coaxed out to 10" between centers. I onlyuse it for turning bamboo and cork and it works just fine. I suppose Imight want a better lathe for turning reel seat and ferrule hardware, butat the moment I would rather buy hardware and spend my time planing cane. 2c's John from stpete@netten.net Thu Nov 12 22:57:16 1998 cedar.netten.net(8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA21496 for; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 22:57:14 Subject: Re: Fwd: Lathe Question to Joe E. Jon Lintvet wrote:I would give my girlfriend in a trade pay for it to be moved every 9 months. Take care,Jon Lintvet Every 9 months? Interesting number, Jon! What are you doing out therethat you've got to leave town every 9 months? Huh, Jon? We won't haveto tell Melissa, some one else surely will, they always do! LOL, Rick from mauro_carrara@email.msn.com Thu Nov 12 23:02:34 1998 SMTPSVC;Thu, 12 Nov 1998 20:53:44 -0800 Subject: Re: First impressions What is your advice regarding books for somebody who's just starting? I'mgetting the first culms next week hopefully. I was planning to startfollowing either Garrison or Cattenach. Thanks,Mauro. IMHO if you are just starting *don't* read Garrison. Tony from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Nov 12 23:04:37 1998 Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:04:12 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Fwd: Lathe Question to Joe E. On Thu, 12 Nov 1998, Jon Lintvet wrote: Dave made some very sound comments. I would comment however, that not everyone has room for a southbend. The more customers I meet, the more I realize a lot of folks out there are building rods in apartments or houses. This is where the Sherlines and the like are great. We need to get John Z. to speak up. We had a Sherline at Roscoe and were enlightened. Power feed, as accurate as you want to make it, taper turning by a swinging headstock...no need to go on. What Jon says is all true. Accuracy wise the Sherline is great and the swinging headstock makes tapering ferrules a snap *but* they lack "grunt" when it comes to turning larger dia NS or bronze for reel seats. Al is no problem at all. Part of the problem with larger stock is the chuck is made for small stock and dosn't really hold larger dia stock all that well during boring, however a larger chuck is available and may be worth getting right off.The threading attachment looks a marvel of engeneering design and works perfectly unless you're in a hurry to do lots of threading.If all you ever want is a small lathe buy the Sherline and you'll get a terrific lathe but if you're even considering reel seats and possibly reels consider a bigger lathe.I think the Sherline is a superior lathe to a larger one for cutting ferrule stations becuase you are so close to the action and the electric speed control allows finding the best speed for cutting and of course the cross feed is increadibly fine with virtualy nil backlash. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from saweiss@flash.net Thu Nov 12 23:26:18 1998 Subject: Re: First impressions -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: First impressions What is your advice regarding books for somebody who's just starting?I'mgetting the first culms next week hopefully. I was planning to startfollowing either Garrison or Cattenach. Thanks,Mauro. IMHO if you are just starting *don't* read Garrison. Tony Tony,I have several books but the ones I always am going to for reference areWayne Cattenach's and Jack Howell's. George Maurer has a new one outthatis supposed to be very good but I haven't gotten it yet. Books are likeflyrods... you never have too many.Steve Weiss from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Thu Nov 12 23:40:19 1998 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id SAA12928 for ;Fri, 13 Nov 1998 18:40:22+1300 Subject: Re: First impressions At 08:54 AM 13/11/98 +0800, you wrote:On Thu, 12 Nov 1998, Seth Steinzor wrote: Apologies to all the experienced pros on the list - this is really forall the newbies who, like me, hung back for months and monthsabsorbinginformation and technqiues and fantasizing about that first culm. Entryinto this craft can be awfully intimidating. If you read Garrison, eventhe initial splitting sounds like a fantastically complicated operation, /*chop*/ IMHO if you are just starting *don't* read Garrison. Tony I certainly agree with Tony . After building a dozen or so rods over 12months I have got Waynes book , Jack Howells , and Best of Planning Form.Ialso managed to find a copy of George Barnes book in the Library in NewZealand ( I bet that surprised you George if you are out there , it had beentaken out around 30 times over the last 20 years however I do not know ofany other rodmakers down here). The library did not have Garrison . I have found rodmaking is fun and not a difficult task based on the abovebooks and the advise received on this group. Every reference I see to Garrison convinces me I must not look at it for atleast another 5 years as it may persuade me that rodmaking is difficult orcomplicated. The previously mentioned books certainly do not give thatimpression . Jack Howells is great and it has lots of pictures ( I am notsure what you can infer from that regarding my reading level ) . Wayneshasa lot of common sense and clear explanations . Iank from Nodewrrior@aol.com Fri Nov 13 00:20:14 1998 Subject: Re: Lathes So long as you need a lathe only for handles, ferrule mounting andreelseatinserts, the little carbatech (sp?) wood lathe I got from woodcraftawhileback did fine for me. It'll handle butts up to about .355 or so and cost alittle on either side of $300.00 if memory serves. There is a little 3 jawchuck available from them that you'll need. No dice for doing any metalworkthough. Rob Hoffhines from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri Nov 13 00:40:42 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Fwd: Lathe Question to Joe E. I don't know about that comment on being superior accuracy-wise oncuttingferrule stations because of the Sherline's lighter duty construction thespindle and spindle bearing (I would think) would allow for MOREdeflection.As for being "close to the action", did you know that you can even get hexcollets for the larger lathes so that you are working even closer to thespindle bearing? (Tony, please don't take personally, just wanted to pointout other unmentioned factors.) Another thing that a beefier lathe gives you is the ability to knurl (and doa good job at it). There are two types of knurlers (that I know of). Oneof them puts quite a load on the spindle and spindle bearing while theotherputs considerable load on the motor. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knockingSherline or tiny lathes in general...just decide WHAT you want the lathe todo and make sure that the one you buy CAN do those things. One last point that may not be obvious to people just starting to look atlathes: lathes sold in the US are spec'd by the swing over the bed...for alot of the tasks you will be doing you'll be a lot more interested in theswing over the carriage and toolholder...which usually means deduct about4" from the stated swing. That makes the 9" South Bend have about thecapacityYOU THOUGHT you had with a Sherline. On a website I mentioned earlier (http://www.mermac.com) there is anarticlegiving advice on how to evaluate a used lathe (probably good advice toevaluating ANY lathe since so many are poorly finished today). George Bourke -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Fwd: Lathe Question to Joe E. I think the Sherline is a superior lathe to a larger one for cuttingferrule stations becuase you are so close to the action and the electricspeed control allows finding the best speed for cutting and of course thecross feed is increadibly fine with virtualy nil backlash. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Nov 13 03:10:51 1998 Fri, 13 Nov 1998 17:09:19 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: First impressions Depends on how you want to approach it. Wayne Cattanach's book is all the good bit from Garrison plus a lot of his own ideas and IMHO takes the engineering approach.Jack Howell's "The Lovely Reed" has basicaly the same info but takes a slightly different approach, a bit more artistic I guess you'd say.Either is fine. Tony On Thu, 12 Nov 1998, Mauro Carrara wrote: What is your advice regarding books for somebody who's just starting?I'mgetting the first culms next week hopefully. I was planning to startfollowing either Garrison or Cattenach. Thanks,Mauro. IMHO if you are just starting *don't* read Garrison. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Nov 13 03:23:28 1998 Fri, 13 Nov 1998 17:23:20 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Fwd: Lathe Question to Joe E. On Thu, 12 Nov 1998, irish-george wrote: I don't know about that comment on being superior accuracy-wise oncuttingferrule stations because of the Sherline's lighter duty construction thespindle and spindle bearing (I would think) would allow for MOREdeflection.As for being "close to the action", did you know that you can even get hexcollets for the larger lathes so that you are working even closer to thespindle bearing? (Tony, please don't take personally, just wanted topointout other unmentioned factors.) None taken, I originaly bought a Sherline because I thought that was plenty and I now own a much larger lathe suitable for gunsmithing work (I don't gunsmith but that's the size of it) since finding it too small for other work I do. These days I really only use the larger lathe for the reasons you mention except for dressing ferrule stations where the Sherline is better IMHO, mainly because of the infinate speed adjustment and because everything is so much closer.There is more vibration on the Sherline but it dosn't affect accuracy as much as you may think as I've made plenty of ferrules from solid rod using one. There is no doubt the bigger the lathe the better but the Sherline is a very good tool for what it is intended for. I admit though there is a lot of satisfaction to be had cutting a thread into 19mm bronze in one pass on my bigger lathe. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from maxs@geocities.co.jp Fri Nov 13 05:52:59 1998 geocities.co.jp(8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id UAA03676 for; Fri, 13Nov 1998 20:52:54 +0900 (JST) Subject: Mystery midnight Hi, While I was working on polishing rods midnight some day, a sudden bignoise surprised me. It seemed that someone threw a big piece of stonetoward my window. I opened the window and looked around outside butfound no one there. Last night, I heard the same noise in a room. Thistime, some very hard and heavy thing seemed be dropped on the floor. Welooked around but nothing we could find.We checked around the things one by one in the room. TV, garbedges on aside table, bamboo rods, Tonkin Canes, etc... I found... Recently here, we had cold wind from Russia and air got cold and dried. I am keeping Tonkin Canesin my room just behind the TV set. Because of dried air and the heatof TV set, some of Tonkin Canes explored themselves and split itselfnaturally. Several cane had natural split which runs at a side of oneinter node and on another. They are not always on the same line. Someruns just short, some runs through the culm.Of-course, I took small cane axes at once and gave my artificial runsentirely through all the culms I have, otherwise I will have thick andthin splits which will be out of my control. After that, I never heardthe big noise midnight... Take care. Max -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from jcole10@juno.com Fri Nov 13 06:04:59 1998 07:04:44 EST Subject: Re: Cheap components Where can I get a Hook and Tackle catalogueJohn Cole from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Nov 13 06:17:19 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Cheap components John,Go to Hookhack.com.Bret from sniderja@email.uc.edu Fri Nov 13 06:51:03 1998 Subject: lathes What are the choices? Sherline is mentioned everywhere. A Sherlinelong-bed 4400 appears to cost in the neighborhood of $600+. I have notyetfound an outlet for the Edelstaal that I have been borrowing. Are thereany other choices? from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Nov 13 07:17:18 1998 Subject: Re: First impressions Mauro, Cane knowledge is accumulative knowledge - each book seems to addsomethingto the one previous. I started with Garrison and Barnes books. Both servedwell. Got Wayne C's book and was pleased - similarly got Howell's bookandagain learned some new things. You don't need them all but for the guy whomight want to make his own forms either Wayne's or Jack's book willserveas a start point. Beforwarned though, that isn't the end of the books we'llsee or you'll buy. Some might be retreads and others offer newinformation. Good luck with your rods, Don At 20:57 12/11/98 -0800, you wrote:What is your advice regarding books for somebody who's just starting?I'mgetting the first culms next week hopefully. I was planning to startfollowing either Garrison or Cattenach. Thanks,Mauro. IMHO if you are just starting *don't* read Garrison. Tony from gwbarnes@gwi.net Fri Nov 13 07:41:25 1998 Subject: Re: First impressions I certainly agree with Tony . After building a dozen or so rods over 12months I have got Waynes book , Jack Howells , and Best of PlanningForm. Ialso managed to find a copy of George Barnes book in the Library in NewZealand ( I bet that surprised you George if you are out there , it had beentaken out around 30 times over the last 20 years however I do not knowofany other rodmakers down here). Still here! And that's fun to know. Working on a rewite at themoment.Anotherbook on building small wooden boats made it to Australia as I hadcorrespondence from there years ago. Strange how books get around. George from destinycon@mindspring.com Fri Nov 13 07:42:46 1998 Subject: Re: Fwd: Lathe Question to Joe E. At 11:16 PM 11/12/98 -0800, you wrote:I would give my girlfriend in a trade Jon,I've put pictures of my So. Bend in the mail....Please send Pictures ofMelissa....ASAP....Thanks....GWH Joe,I've recently enrolled in a Tech School program that gives me access to acompleat machine shop (including all their CNC's). I don't know why Ihaven't done this sooner. Most of the night "students" are retiredmachinest doing this as a hobbie. The knowlege available is incredible,not to mention the willingness to help. Please check out the local TechSchools, most of these programs are going the way of the Dodo bird due tolack of interest and I've found the instructers more than eager to have anew "student" on the roster. At $125.00 a Quarter (my cost) it can't bebeat. This also gives you a chance to work on many different machinesthusallowing you decide what you want to own. Gary H. from sats@gte.net Fri Nov 13 09:00:23 1998 Subject: Re: split seams Chris , I've re-glued complete sections and splits, I'm now working on the sameproblemwith a shakespear that I intend to use as a bass rod. I'll pass along what I've learned and what I've been told. If it's the glue joints, and the rod is de-laminating, you can try opening itup as far as it will go by using straight pins. (I've used an x-acto knife tosome success, and was only told about the pins a little over a month ago. Idon't see why they wouldn't work.) You want to get as close to the end ofthede- lamination as you can. It's better to have even a little glue there thennoglue at all. Gaps are the enemy. It's hard to get old glue out, I've had only limited success with this, onceagain, using an x-acto. Use pins or needles to hold open the gap and fill it with a slow glue. (Theslow glue gives you working time and you want to force the glue as farinto thede- lamination as you can.) You can use a sewing needle stuck into a dowel likewe use for head cement. Gaps ARE THE ENEMY. bind and let dry. I've been told, for additional strength, just before the final finish, windthearea with one flat layer of white silk thread. I had to do something likethis on a split, because it started to come lose. (Poor gluing or too muchstress at the tip of the split?) Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Nov 13 09:04:40 1998 Fri, 13 Nov 1998 23:03:28 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: First impressions Still here! And that's fun to know. Working on a rewite at themoment.Anotherbook on building small wooden boats made it to Australia as I hadcorrespondence from there years ago. Strange how books get around. George Crikey, two books of interest from one author!George, what was the book on small wooden craft I want a copy. While you're at it put me down for a copy of your re-write when it's published. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Nov 13 09:14:38 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Saltwater TC,I repaired a butt section on an English rod that had a long splicedconnection that was taped with plastic electricians' tape-that's right- plasticelecticians' tape! It worked fine and the tape is easily replaced.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Nov 13 09:14:43 1998 Subject: Re:T. Morgan Patrick,rodsmiths@imt.netRegards,Hank. from jczimny@dol.net Fri Nov 13 09:24:24 1998 Subject: Lathes boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0030_01BE0EEE.B8E87540" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01BE0EEE.B8E87540 As most of you know, I have been an advocate of heavy lathes.My feeling is that cast iron means rigidity and therefore, the more the =better. However, I did have the chanch to actually use one of the Sherline = Catskills gathering. I must say that I was impressed. I particularly =liked the highspeed possible. They make lapping and polishing operations a snap. I =also thoughthe movable head to be very useful for cutting the tapers in ferrules. The price of lathe and attachments are very reasonable. The only shortcoming is perhaps the size. There will be no hogging cuts =made here! But, that beingsaid, and if treated kindly, a Sherline lathe will perform as accurately = efficiently than large machine tools. All of this at a significantly =lower price. As for choosing among tools. One must make a commitment to one type. =Because, more often thannot, the cost of tooling end up costing more than the basic tool. ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01BE0EEE.B8E87540 As most of you know, I have beenan = heavy lathes.My feeling is that cast iron means= therefore, the more the better. However, I did have the chanch to= one of the Sherline lathes at the Catskills gathering. I must saythat = impressed. I particularly liked the highspeed possible. They make lapping= operations a snap. I also thoughthe movable head to be veryuseful = the tapers in ferrules. The price of lathe andattachments = reasonable. The only shortcoming is perhapsthe = said, and if treated kindly, a = will perform as accurately and in some cases, more efficiently than large machine = this at a significantly lower price. As for choosing among tools. One= commitment to one type. Because, more often thannot, the cost of tooling end up = than the basic tool. John = ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01BE0EEE.B8E87540-- from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Fri Nov 13 09:31:10 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Fri,13Nov 1998 10:40:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Fwd: Lathe Question to Joe E. Hehe....the none months is the school year. Sept-May. I had a great opportunity to pick up a Bridgeport Series II but what in the world would I do with it? Take care,Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.munrorodco.com from jonfun@univest.com Fri Nov 13 10:07:39 1998 Subject: I'm new I'm new to fly fishing and I love it. I Live in Arkansas and I will befishing for trout most of the time. What is the greatest advantage of acanerod and how much should I expect to spend on purchasing a used one andrepairing it vs. Building one?(I've seen the cost of new ones and until Ilearn to use one I cannot justify that expense!) Jonathan Funk winmail.dat Name: winmail.datType: unspecified type (application/octet-stream)Encoding: x-uuencode from Flysguys@aol.com Fri Nov 13 10:20:34 1998 Subject: Nickle-silver Can anyone advise a good source for nickle-silver bar stock and/or tubing? Guy from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Nov 13 10:23:39 1998 Subject: Re: Mystery midnight In a message dated 11/13/98 3:53:38 AM Pacific Standard Time,maxs@geocities.co.jp writes: While I was working on polishing rods midnight some day, a sudden bignoise surprised me. It seemed that someone threw a big piece of stonetoward my window. In Southern California we sometimes have very dry winds that blow off the inland desert. Brings the relative humidity to around10 per cent. We were having this weather condition when my first shipment of culms arrived from Demarest. The culms werepopping and crackling like you wouldn't believe. The deliveryman asked what was in the box. He thought something was alivein there. Some of the pops were so loud they sounded like asmall caliber handgun. I split my culms all the way down when I first get them now. Darryl from sjstill@iquest.net Fri Nov 13 10:46:21 1998 0000 (209.43.56.153) Subject: Re: Lathes Hi All, There is, even as we speak, an auction at ebay for one of the HarborFreight Mini lathes. No photo, but you can see one at the Harborfreight web site. (www.harborfreight.com) No commercial interest ineither place. In fact, I'm a bit honked off with Harbor, but that'sanother story. Steve from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Nov 13 11:39:43 1998 Subject: Hand Planed? I haven't seen much discussion about the Morgan Hand Milllately, perhaps I missed it while I was off list. The question I have is:Can a rod made with a Morgan Hand Mill still be called"Hand Planed"? My opinion is Yes.There is no powered motors involved, the Morgan Mill is just a hand plane set up to plane both sides of the strip at once. Darryl from stpete@netten.net Fri Nov 13 12:59:03 1998 cedar.netten.net(8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA20266 for ;Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:58:58 Subject: Re: I'm new Jonathan, There are those who will rave about the beautiful rythmic casting of thecane rod. Casting a nice cane rod is a ecstatic experience in itself. The sensitivity of the tip, the spring-like power of the rod butt, theconnectedness you feel with the line, the rod and the hand. Veryorganic. Others will extol the virtues of time honored tradition and thesheer beauty of the rod - that speaks for itself. I will say that until you actually catch a nice fish on a cane rod, youwill never be able to appreciate it fully. To me, that is where bamboostands shoulders above other materials. It is as if you can "feel thefish's heart beating" as I heard a fellow fisherman put it. It is sotrue, that once felt, you will never go back. Beware. Rick CrenshawMemphis.Jonathan Funk wrote: I'm new to fly fishing and I love it. I Live in Arkansas and I will befishing for trout most of the time. What is the greatest advantage of acanerod and how much should I expect to spend on purchasing a used one andrepairing it vs. Building one?(I've seen the cost of new ones and until Ilearn to use one I cannot justify that expense!) Jonathan Funk Name: winmail.datPart 1.2 Type: unspecified type (application/octet- stream)Encoding: x-uuencode from gwr@seanet.com Fri Nov 13 13:00:30 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA20302 for; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 Subject: Sharps 83 Taper? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01BE0EF5.0DC5DD40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BE0EF5.0DC5DD40 Hi guys, The fly dresser I work with is looking for the Sharps "83" taper. Itshould be an 8' 3" for 7/8 line. If anyone can provide him with this taper,I'm sure I can hook you up with a selection of woven flies. He's justgetting into making cane rods and would like to do this as his first try foruse on the local steelhead streams. Thanks in advance, Russ Golden Witch Rods - "Tools For Natural Philosophy"Golden Witch Technologies, Inc. - "The Golden Age Is Now"gwr@seanet.comhttp://www.goldenwitch.com ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BE0EF5.0DC5DD40 name="Golden Witch.vcf" filename="Golden Witch.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDN:Gooding;John;R.FN:Golden WitchORG:Golden WitchTITLE:Rod Maker &c.TEL;WORK;VOICE:(425) 787- 6599TEL;PAGER;VOICE:noneTEL;WORK;FAX:noneADR;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A;Lynnwood;WA;98037;USALABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A=3D0D=3D0ALynnwood, WA =98037=3D0D=3D0AUSAURL:noneURL:http://www.goldenwitch.comEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:gwr@seanet.comEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BE0EF5.0DC5DD40-- from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Fri Nov 13 13:00:32 1998 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id IAA05678 for ;Sat, 14 Nov 1998 08:00:35+1300 Subject: Re: Nickle-silver Guy , Try Dave Leclair at LECLAIR123@aol.com ( phone 315 689 7896 )for thecomponents you need. He is very helpfull and good service . Iank At 11:19 AM 13/11/98 EST, you wrote:Can anyone advise a good source for nickle-silver bar stock and/ortubing? Guy from sjstill@iquest.net Fri Nov 13 13:48:00 1998 0000 (209.43.55.138) Subject: Re: Hand Planed? SalarFly@aol.com wrote: The question I have is:Can a rod made with a Morgan Hand Mill still be called"Hand Planed"? My opinion is Yes.There is no powered motors involved, the Morgan Mill is justa hand plane set up to plane both sides of the strip at once. Darryl, If you can afford that machine, you can call the rods you make with itanything you like Steve from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Fri Nov 13 14:06:30 1998 0600 Subject: Re: I'm new Where in Arkansas? Where do you fish? Next time I'm up there (I'm in La.)you can join me andtry one ofmine. Then I suspect that as Rick said, you'll want one of your own.Harry Boyd Jonathan Funk wrote: I'm new to fly fishing and I love it. I Live in Arkansas and I will befishing for trout most of the time. >snipped from gwbarnes@gwi.net Fri Nov 13 14:09:40 1998 Subject: Re: I'm new And just imagine the effect on all of these magic but true attributes whenit's arod you made sporting a home made fly. It's then you really appreciate allthethings pointed out. No one else helped outsmart the wiley bugger. George Rick Crenshaw wrote: Jonathan, There are those who will rave about the beautiful rythmic casting of thecane rod. Casting a nice cane rod is a ecstatic experience in itself.The sensitivity of the tip, the spring-like power of the rod butt, theconnectedness you feel with the line, the rod and the hand. Veryorganic. Others will extol the virtues of time honored tradition and thesheer beauty of the rod - that speaks for itself. I will say that until you actually catch a nice fish on a cane rod, youwill never be able to appreciate it fully. To me, that is where bamboostands shoulders above other materials. It is as if you can "feel thefish's heart beating" as I heard a fellow fisherman put it. It is sotrue, that once felt, you will never go back. Beware. Rick CrenshawMemphis.Jonathan Funk wrote: I'm new to fly fishing and I love it. I Live in Arkansas and I will befishing for trout most of the time. What is the greatest advantage of acanerod and how much should I expect to spend on purchasing a used one and