from channer@hubwest.com Sun Nov 1 01:04:43 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A86CDF50124; Sun, 01 Nov 1998 00:06:20 MDT Subject: Re: Drip tube At 08:40 PM 10/31/98 EST, you wrote:John,I've been straightening after dipping. I'm using Helmsman spar and itseems to stand the temp. O.K.Regards,Hank. Hank;Starry eyed traditionalist that I am, I use Man-O-War spar varnish and itjust can't stand the heat. Helmsman is urethane and it is probably moreheat resistant. That or you are much better at it than I am , which is verylikely. I also have a very low luck factor. I find that Mr. Murphy is incomplete control of almost everything I do.John(Livin in the past)Channer from channer@hubwest.com Sun Nov 1 01:27:23 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id ADC056300FC; Sun, 01 Nov 1998 00:29:04 MDT Subject: re:Heddon #50 Fritz;Thanks for posting the taper. Another one for the "must build" list. John from Turbotrk@aol.com Sun Nov 1 01:44:52 1998 Subject: Re: Heddon #50 President Hey Freitz please post the taper. We can never have too many expeciallyforso powerful a rod as you described. stuart miller from fr.keulen@wxs.nl Sun Nov 1 04:07:19 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA57C7 Subject: Re: Heddon #50 President Deluxe Taper Fritz Wiese wrote: I did forget a few things on my first post. Label on case is markedModel #50, President, and wt #2. Took me a while to find that wasHeddons designation for dry fly action.Strange but the snakes on the mid section are English pattern and thesnakes on both tips are Amer. pattern. If that was 1936 Heddon wasprobably just switching over. I took dimensions with my 1/2" Starret mic. w/pressure release.All measurement differentals are plus dimensions, and they were alwayson the spline where the guides are attached.TIP 1 Max Diff.065 .00055" .083 .000510" .096 .000015" .109 .00120" .128 .00125" .144 .00230" .160 .001 Mid Section Max Diff351/4" .178 .0000 Just below ferrule40" .192 .000545" .208 .00150" .222 .000555" .235 .00160" .249 .00265" .269 .002 Butt Max Diff70" .277 .00375" .291 .00280" .308 .00285" .323 .000590" .336 .00493 3/8 .425 .003 Under winding check Tip 2 Max DiffTip .080 .0015" .090 .00110" .110 .00115" .123 .00120" .136 .00225" .148 .00230" .165 .003 Client mentioned that this rod was his fathers and he was a localtournament caster. He used this rod for trout, dry fly accuracy and theskish fly event were they had to use a production rod.Workmanship is exceptional. Fritz Wiese Fritz, Thanks a lot for the taper. How much should be extracted for the varnish?Could you describe how the rod feels? You said it was powerful, didn'tyou? Rens Oosthoek from fritzwiese@webtv.net Sun Nov 1 05:52:52 1998 105.iap.bryant.webtv.net v.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id 112.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) ETAuAhUAgPEt3rnuRfIS2zC4Bfh+ZREWPM0CFQCU1CxScQweAHHgOmjZ0pMU55axjA== Subject: Re: Heddon #50 President Deluxe Taper --WebTV-Mail-1843883417-211 Rens: The rod was stripped of varnish. Fritz Wiese --WebTV-Mail-1843883417-211 101.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/po.gso.24Feb98) mailsorter-101.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.graham.14Aug97) with wugate.wustl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) wugate.wustl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA12386 for; Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA57C7 for;Sun, 1 Nov 1998 11:06:45 +0100 Subject: Re: Heddon #50 President Deluxe Taper Fritz Wiese wrote: I did forget a few things on my first post. Label on case is markedModel #50, President, and wt #2. Took me a while to find that wasHeddons designation for dry fly action.Strange but the snakes on the mid section are English pattern and thesnakes on both tips are Amer. pattern. If that was 1936 Heddon wasprobably just switching over. I took dimensions with my 1/2" Starret mic. w/pressure release.All measurement differentals are plus dimensions, and they were alwayson the spline where the guides are attached.TIP 1 Max Diff.065 .00055" .083 .000510" .096 .000015" .109 .00120" .128 .00125" .144 .00230" .160 .001 Mid Section Max Diff351/4" .178 .0000 Just below ferrule40" .192 .000545" .208 .00150" .222 .000555" .235 .00160" .249 .00265" .269 .002 Butt Max Diff70" .277 .00375" .291 .00280" .308 .00285" .323 .000590" .336 .00493 3/8 .425 .003 Under winding check Tip 2 Max DiffTip .080 .0015" .090 .00110" .110 .00115" .123 .00120" .136 .00225" .148 .00230" .165 .003 Client mentioned that this rod was his fathers and he was a localtournament caster. He used this rod for trout, dry fly accuracy and theskish fly event were they had to use a production rod.Workmanship is exceptional. Fritz Wiese Fritz, Thanks a lot for the taper. How much should be extracted for the varnish?Could you describe how the rod feels? You said it was powerful, didn'tyou? Rens Oosthoek --WebTV-Mail-1843883417-211-- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Nov 1 08:03:31 1998 Subject: Leonard not a Leonard List,Awhile back I made mention that a guy had given me some rods and onewas aPayne. OK here is my question. Both tips are short and I am sending it toPayne Rod Co. out on the west coast. Now Payne has changed hands sincethisrod was made and when they build me new tips and refurbish the rod is itstill a Payne?Bret from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Nov 1 10:28:13 1998 Subject: When is a Pflugeger not a Pflugeger? Actually the problem goes much deeper and subtle than just whokeepsa name. What happens when a company changes their manafacturing and thatessentially changes the product itself and it aint what it used to be. SoReed(welcome back) do you first check and see that good : "made in U.S.A." onthereel before you buy one - to insure it is not one of those cheaper made offshoresomewhere ones?? Regards Chris from thorstad@primenet.com Sun Nov 1 11:18:23 1998 "Pthorstad"via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd015999; Sun Nov 1 10:18:141998 Subject: Re: First impresion Great job, Joe. I too will probably build the first bamboo rod I've ever fished with. Ihope to be where you are within a year or so. Sounds like this may be agood first rod Tim thorstad@primenet.com -----Original Message----- Subject: First impresion Hello all,Just got back from my first trip to the water with my newly created rod.Iended up working until about 2am this morning finishing it up, then wasoff at 6 to fish. I know there are some people out their looking for theirfirst taper so perhaps some comments may be helpful. The stick isWayne's7ft 4wt. (not the Sir D). I don't own a 4wt. rod so I went ahead and triedit out with a 6wt. WF line. I guess its also confession time: this was thefirst cane rod I had actually fished, having only lawn casted a handfullbefore this morning. I bum around our local Orvis shop and cast theplasticcrap (oops) that is reputed to be the some of the best available (not toget into a comparison of relative quality of plastic rods), so I have atleast a little notion of what a good rod is supposed to be.So my overall impression of my fist cane rod is that the thing should benamed "God's fishing pole." There is really no way one can comparefishingwith a cane rod to fishing plastic is my opinion. The plastic rod is deadand very predictable. The cane rod seems to have some sort of life of itsown. Fishing with this rod is more like having a conversation thancommanding something to do your will. For car people the plastic is tocaneas a corvette is to a BMW M3. The Corvette will go real fast as long asyoudon't tell it to do anything too complicated; the M3 seems to anticipateyour input and always leaves you feeling that you have yet to really tapits resources.To get specific, I was able to put out 50ft of 6wt line with this 4wt. rodwithout any real effort, and I could do so with accuracy and wisper-softpresentation. With a little effort and a double haul I could get out a good65-70ft--and I cast really poorly. The rod roll casted better than anyother I have cast. I could easily present a fly to individual fish at 30ft.Once a fish was on (and that happened pretty often this morning) the rodmade 12in 'bows into real monsters. Best of all, the rod seemed to havethepotential to do all these things even better than I was getting it to do. A4wt. line and some time and this thing will be incredible. Even now it isthe best rod I have fished.So thanks to Wayne, if you're out there, for creating and publishing thistaper. It's a gem. If you're looking for a taper for your first rod, Ipromise you'll be happy with this one. Best,Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from Turbotrk@aol.com Sun Nov 1 11:54:31 1998 Subject: Perfectionist at work To the list, I am in the process of transforming a room of my house into a "Rod MakingRoom" to build my first bamboo rod. I would like to start with the worktablethat I will be using. What does the list think should be required as far asheight, length, width if they had their druthers. I know this sounds like astupid question but, not having actually done a lot of planing, it seemstherewould be a correct position for perfect planing. Also, what should the topsurface be? I have heard that plexiglass would be good. I have aperfectionists attitude and do not want to start unless all is perfect. Second question: is there any reason not to use clear red oak for roughplaning forms? It is considerably cheaper then maple in my neck of thewoods. soon to be a rod builderstuart miller from dellc@nextdim.com Sun Nov 1 12:29:06 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A53A63780072; Sun, 01 Nov 1998 10:15:22 PDT Subject: Re: Perfectionist at work To me, the main consideration for work benches is to have the height atwaist level.Dell-----Original Message----- Subject: Perfectionist at work To the list, I am in the process of transforming a room of my house into a "RodMakingRoom" to build my first bamboo rod. I would like to start with the worktablethat I will be using. What does the list think should be required as farasheight, length, width if they had their druthers. I know this sounds likeastupid question but, not having actually done a lot of planing, it seemstherewould be a correct position for perfect planing. Also, what should thetopsurface be? I have heard that plexiglass would be good. I have aperfectionists attitude and do not want to start unless all is perfect. Second question: is there any reason not to use clear red oak for roughplaning forms? It is considerably cheaper then maple in my neck of thewoods. soon to be a rod builderstuart miller from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Nov 1 12:48:15 1998 boundary="_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862608=_=_=_"Subject: Re: Perfectionist at work --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862608=_=_=_ Stuart have no problems. I assume you are somewhere around average height (5' 10 - 6')the lowest I would go is 33" and highest 37" - If you just plane on it I would go with a higher height. My students benches are high and they found it comfortable to plane on. But an all around bench I wouldgo with 34" which I built mine at. It works very well for most things. As for top - go with good old plywood and make it thick 3/4".You want the bench to be sturdy. You can put on some laminate top iflooks are a concern. Plexiglass is not a good choice. I keep a sheetavail for sharpening but that is it. It will scratch and look funky after awhile. But if your oak is cheap and a perfectionist then just do an 4" butcher block Oak top with a couple of coats of marine spar varnish. And if youreally get going on the project then we can talk about wood inlays (a nicefly pattern in exotic woods and brass would add lots of class to theproject). Last thing - light - put the bench by a window - a big window and have lots of lights for working in the evening. This should be one of your prime concerns in your shop. Regards Chris On Sun, 1 Nov 1998 12:53:32 EST, Turbotrk@aol.com wrote: To the list, I am in the process of transforming a room of my house into a "RodMakingRoom" to build my first bamboo rod. I would like to start with the worktablethat I will be using. What does the list think should be required as far asheight, length, width if they had their druthers. I know this sounds like astupid question but, not having actually done a lot of planing, it seemstherewould be a correct position for perfect planing. Also, what should thetopsurface be? I have heard that plexiglass would be good. I have aperfectionists attitude and do not want to start unless all is perfect. Second question: is there any reason not to use clear red oak for roughplaning forms? It is considerably cheaper then maple in my neck of thewoods. soon to be a rod builderstuart miller Regards Chris --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862608=_=_=_ Stuart have no problems. I assume you are somewhere around average height (5' 10 - 6')the lowest I would go is 33" and highest 37" - If you just plane on it I would go with a higher height. My students benches are high and they found it comfortable to plane on. But an all around bench I wouldgo with 34" which I built mine at. It works very well for most things. As for top - go with good old plywood and make it thick 3/4".You want the bench to be sturdy. You can put on some laminate top iflooks are a concern. Plexiglass is not a good choice. I keep a sheetavail for sharpening but that is it. It will scratch and look funky after awhile. But if your oak is cheap and a perfectionist then just do an 4" butcher block Oak top with a couple of coats of marine spar varnish. And ifyoureally get going on the project then we can talk about wood inlays (anicefly pattern in exotic woods and brass would add lots of class to theproject). Last thing - light - put the bench by a window - a bigwindow and have lots of lights for working in the evening. This should be one ofyour prime concerns in your shop. Regards Chris On Sun, 1 Nov 1998 12:53:32 EST, Turbotrk@aol.com wrote: Making work table as like a there top perfect. rough the --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862608=_=_=_-- from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sun Nov 1 13:42:57 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP Subject: Re: Leonard not a Leonard In the eyes of the law, yes. In my eyes, no way -- I'd want the restoration current Leonard ownership and current Payne ownership as rodbuilderswhobought the right to put an "endorsement" on their rods. For instance, nowthat Gary Howells has retired, say that Chris Bogart (demo purposes only,hope neither Gary nor Chris mind) pays Gary $10k for the "right" to put theGary's name on the rods he makes. So you buy a "Gary Howells" rod fromChris...have you bought a Gary Howells rod? It doesn't matter if Chrismakes better or worse rods than Gary...the appeal of a Gary Howells rodwasdue to the skill and craftsmanship that Gary acquired over the years andputinto his rods. It is easier to discern with individuals rather thancompanies, to be sure. However, rod companies that requiredapprenticeshipsbefore changing hands (as Leonard did in the past, and Winston), allowtime skill (to maintain the company's reputation) before changing hands, thenthey deserve the right to put their "purchased reputation" on the rod. That's my 2 cents worth,(and I hope I haven't offended anyone who was mentioned for sake ofexample)George Bourke -----Original Message----- Subject: Leonard not a Leonard List,Awhile back I made mention that a guy had given me some rods and onewas aPayne. OK here is my question. Both tips are short and I am sending it toPayne Rod Co. out on the west coast. Now Payne has changed hands sincethisrod was made and when they build me new tips and refurbish the rod is itstill a Payne?Bret from jczimny@dol.net Sun Nov 1 13:54:02 1998 Subject: Re: Perfectionist at work Stuart,I have been contemplating the bench to end all benches for some time. Ithink two things a critical: height and weight.The top should be about 2 inches below elbow height and the bench shouldweight 300Lbs. The length should be long enought to accomodate yourlongestform. Width is up to you. Some thought should be given to portability. Red oak should be fine. Make two of them. They should be consideredexpendible.John Z-----Original Message----- Subject: Perfectionist at work To the list, I am in the process of transforming a room of my house into a "RodMakingRoom" to build my first bamboo rod. I would like to start with the worktablethat I will be using. What does the list think should be required as farasheight, length, width if they had their druthers. I know this sounds likeastupid question but, not having actually done a lot of planing, it seemstherewould be a correct position for perfect planing. Also, what should thetopsurface be? I have heard that plexiglass would be good. I have aperfectionists attitude and do not want to start unless all is perfect. Second question: is there any reason not to use clear red oak for roughplaning forms? It is considerably cheaper then maple in my neck of thewoods. soon to be a rod builderstuart miller from stpete@netten.net Sun Nov 1 15:17:28 1998 cedar.netten.net(8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA29768 for ;Sun, 1 Nov 1998 15:17:21 Subject: Re: Perfectionist at work Stuart, If you want a nice workbench that has a classic butcherblock look, isall wood (useful for protecting planes, chisels, and other woodworkingtools) and is heavy (not 300#), then here is what I did. Sorry folks,this has local information. Call Anderson-Tully Company on North Second Street. They makelaminatedtruck flooring out of the local red and white oak. You can talk themanager into selling some of their scrap or seconds. It's notcompletely cheap, but for $50-70 you should get enough to start a nicetable. Most likely, all they'll have is the 3/4" x 12" side boardavailable in 8' or 12' lengths. That's what I got. They use the heavystuff for the actual truck floors and you probably couldn't pick it upit's so heavy. Laminate the oak to a 3/4"x4'x8' plywood. I cut mine to 3' width forspace. The wider the more convenient though. I can access both sidesand have my binder set up on the opposite side of my bench. I laminatedthe oak to the plywood with wood glue, clamps, and wood dowels on about12" centers. Then I put 2x4 frame around the bottom sides and thecenter with dowels and glue. It is solid! Best yet, NO METAL! The bench sits on a frame of 2x4 with 4x4 legs. I have unglued dowelson the legs which fit into holes on the bottom of the bench, so I canmove it if I ever need to. Put a nice front vise and tail vise on thebench and you have a real woodworking bench. I use the tail vise mostoften, so I wish I had used a better one than I did. Drill 3/4" holesdown and across the bench opposite the vise dogs and cut off pieces of3/4" dowel for bench dogs. You can hold your forms or work pieceseasily with this set up. The best part is the bench looks great and you can put off actuallymaking a rod, since the perfectionist in you will find lots of things todo on your bench. Whatever you do, don't consider making a rod on anold yard sale table, or a plywood sheet on sawhorses. You will beembarrassed to take pictures for your book on rodmaking on those worksurfaces. I saw Digger's video where he was making a rod on his kitchen table. Ihave one rod under my belt in a year and a half of doing this. Joe Kallowas at the SRG in OCTOBER saying he was just getting started. He has arod already... but I bet I have a nicer table. Good Luck,Rick Crenshaw Turbotrk@aol.com wrote:I am in the process of transforming a room of my house into a "RodMakingRoom" to build my first bamboo rod. I would like to start with the worktable would be a correct position for perfect planing. Also, what should thetopsurface be? I have heard that plexiglass would be good. I have aperfectionists attitude and do not want to start unless all is perfect. stuart miller from Anachemrpo@aol.com Sun Nov 1 16:48:49 1998 Subject: (no) Perfectionist (but it) work(s) I have one those packaged "work bench in a box" from Grossmans or HomeDepot,that my father-in-law got for me a few years ago. It was my regularworkbenchin the basement...until now. While it is the right height and width, it had a work surface that wasneitherflat not level. I went out and bought a sheet of 3/4" birch plywood (yes, itlooks very nice, thank you very much) . I had them cut it to measure at thelumber yard, took it home measured for and drilled holes for 1" dowels tobeused as dogs, levelled it up and screwed the new top to the old bench- from-box. With the leftover pieces of plywood I made a section that can be placed ontopof the new surface (and against a set of digs) to elevate my forms abovetheregular surface, yet is removable... I have neither my first rod built nor a work-of-art workbench...but I *am*having fun, learning a bunch, and moving right along. The list is a BIG help (stating the obvious, I know).Thank you to all who have gone before, and are willing to share. Russ L. from rcurry@top.monad.net Sun Nov 1 17:09:04 1998 Subject: Re: When is a Pflugeger not a Pflugeger? cbogart wrote:So Reed(welcome back) do you first check and see that good : "made in U.S.A." onthereel before you buy one - to insure it is not one of those cheaper madeoff shoresomewhere ones??Chris,Of course! The difference in quality is exponential.This is more than just a matter of going offshore, the demand forlow-cost over quality is endemic to our culture. Take the F.E. Thomascompany, before the advent of FRP they manufactured with three grades,but the difference in the quality of the blanks was merely cosmetic.After FRP rods hit the streets the company reduced its quality controlin order to compete on price. Glue gaps and blemishes could then befound on the "better" grade. So sad...Best regards,Reed from jkallo@midwest.net Sun Nov 1 17:13:16 1998 Subject: Re: Perfectionist at work I saw Digger's video where he was making a rod on his kitchen table. Ihave one rod under my belt in a year and a half of doing this. Joe Kallowas at the SRG in OCTOBER saying he was just getting started. He has arod already... but I bet I have a nicer table. I wasn't going to say anything, but this thread was making me feel a littleguilty. My shop table is so pathetic that I fear the time when someonewants to come see where I make rods. It was in the garage area when Ibought the house. The top is made of four seperate pieces of plywoodwhichhave, over the century and ahalf since the house was built, gone their ownway in the world. The top is so crooked I have to put something under themiddle of my planning form as it sits a good inch and half off the table inthe center. I actually kinda like the effect of laying my finished rod onthis bench when it is (and it still is) covered with the debris from theprocess--sandpaper shreds, zillions of shavings, broken binding string etc.Its kinda like the lotus flower rising from the swamp. To each his own I suppose. (Rick, I'm gonna try to get down there for cane before Thanksgiving. Willwrite soon to establish a time) Best,Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from jaquin@netsync.net Sun Nov 1 17:56:44 1998 quartz.netsync.net (8.8.5/8.6.12)with SMTP id SAA05176 for ; Sun, 1 Nov1998 18:56:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Heddon #50 President Fritz Wiese wrote: Have taken in a restoration. Customer took a pen knife and took off thegrips then realised he was over his head. Remember the Heddon as aunique reverse half wells. Have Sinclairs restoration hand book butthat grip is not documeted. I don't have his Heddon book yet. Is itpossible that the grip is in that book?Years ago I always use Valspar spar varnish.Not available in my area. Don't even know if they are still inbusiness. What spar varnish do you use? Put the rod in my drying cabinet for a month, then cast it with #5 and #6 DT silks. This is one powerful rod! Complete melt down. Havestripped it and mic'ed the taper. Would be happy to list taper ifanybody is interested. All complete w/tube and original case. Even the label on the case isintact. Owner put his name and year 1936 on rod. Couldn't save thatbut the Heddon markings are OK. This is an 8 1/2 ft 3/2 rod with #2 ferrules. Classic shows as 5.20oz. Pls and Thx Fritz WieseHi Fritz What do you use to strip the varnish of an old rod? How didyou save the Heddon markings? Have a H-I Tonka Queen to do. Looking forsome time saving ideas! thanks, jerry from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Nov 1 18:02:52 1998 Mon, 2 Nov 1998 08:02:27 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: (WAS) Perfectionist, now workbench Anybody looking for workbench ideas with the view to perfection should look at a book called "The Workbench Book". It is extremly good. running the whole length with an end and tail vise.I don't think you need a wide bench as it only encourages clutter but the length is good for forms. Put storage under the bench as the tools add weight.Height wise, I like a bench height so it is level with my thumbs sticking out when my arms are in a relaxed state by my sides.Any higher and it's dif to get your shoulder into planing, you don't need this for power in the case of planing strips but it saves fatigue. A higher bench is easier on your back but I think it's hard on your neck and shoulders.The bench top is laminated timber with a boiled linseed oil finish. When the finish is dry you can write directly on the bench with pencil and sand it back without any damage. This saves paper laying about and means if the stations are clearly marked you can jot the station dimensions directly on the bench.The oil finish also allows for accurate bench top truing as all you do is plane the top and look for differences in the oiled finish and plane till it's all even, then re-oil.Do this ever year. I don't know red oak's working properties but if it's like white oak I'd think it'd be ok. Tony On Sun, 1 Nov 1998 Anachemrpo@aol.com wrote: I have one those packaged "work bench in a box" from Grossmans or HomeDepot,that my father-in-law got for me a few years ago. It was my regularworkbenchin the basement...until now. While it is the right height and width, it had a work surface that wasneitherflat not level. I went out and bought a sheet of 3/4" birch plywood (yes,itlooks very nice, thank you very much) . I had them cut it to measure atthelumber yard, took it home measured for and drilled holes for 1" dowelsto beused as dogs, levelled it up and screwed the new top to the old bench-from-box. With the leftover pieces of plywood I made a section that can be placedon topof the new surface (and against a set of digs) to elevate my forms abovetheregular surface, yet is removable... I have neither my first rod built nor a work-of-art workbench...but I*am*having fun, learning a bunch, and moving right along. The list is a BIG help (stating the obvious, I know).Thank you to all who have gone before, and are willing to share. Russ L. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Nov 1 18:04:32 1998 Mon, 2 Nov 1998 08:04:16 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Perfectionist at work On Sun, 1 Nov 1998, Joseph S.Kallo wrote: I wasn't going to say anything, but this thread was making me feel alittleguilty. My shop table is so pathetic that I fear the time when someonewants to come see where I make rods. It was in the garage area when Ibought the house. The top is made of four seperate pieces of plywoodwhichhave, over the century and ahalf since the house was built, gone theirownway in the world. The top is so crooked I have to put something under themiddle of my planning form as it sits a good inch and half off the tableinthe center. I actually kinda like the effect of laying my finished rod onthis bench when it is (and it still is) covered with the debris from theprocess--sandpaper shreds, zillions of shavings, broken binding stringetc.Its kinda like the lotus flower rising from the swamp. To each his own I suppose. It all works if you're comfortable with it. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from chris@artistree.com Sun Nov 1 18:15:41 1998 QAA06535 Subject: Re: Heddon #50 President Jerry, If I may. I just stripped an H&I. Saved label & decal by coating it witha liberal layer of Spar Varnish (Pratt & Lambert). After dry (2-daysmaybe more) applied masking tape (auto paint quality) over labels toprotect them from stripper. Then applied 3-M's Safest Stripper on theold varnish coat (try and keep away from masked areas). Takes 1/2 to 1hr to work. Try not to let the stripper dry out (keep away from heat)and it will be easier to remove (IMHO). Think this procedure is what M.Sinclair recommends, can't remember exactly, but it works for me.-- Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com Fritz WieseHi Fritz What do you use to strip the varnish of an old rod? How didyou save the Heddon markings? Have a H-I Tonka Queen to do. Looking forsome time saving ideas! thanks, jerry from fritzwiese@webtv.net Sun Nov 1 18:29:01 1998 105.iap.bryant.webtv.net v.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id 112.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) ETAtAhRbpzdUtMzSk5Wfm7zQP20V6hJi3QIVAI5AHRTMyOGSktmIR0dCqUqJgBeL Subject: Re: Heddon #50 President Last few years I have been using 3M Safe Strip recommended by Sinclairin his fine book on restoration. Cleaning off old varnish with gray 3Mpads (fine grit). I do this on a sheet of plate glass so I don't roundover the edges. Then back in the drying cabinet. I made a mahogoneycabinet with a 60 watt bulb. Hooks to hang nine sections at one time,Acrylic door so I can look in the cabinet. The owner had put his nameon the outer finish w/india ink and coated over it with spar. Bad meltdown, so I couldn't save that but the factory markings were deeper. Iused an old trick that my father taught me. Scraped the outer layerwith a shard of broken glass. After refinishing it may still beevident, but minimal. Careful to make an even border. Fritz Wiese from tball@mail.portup.com Sun Nov 1 18:52:02 1998 Subject: PHY para14 Does anyone out their in cyberland have the taper for the PHY para 14.Tom in Trout Lake from MasjC1@aol.com Sun Nov 1 19:01:10 1998 Subject: Re: Perfectionist at work Stuart, I built my rough planing forms from red oak. No problems. Just followedtheinstructions in Wayne's book. Mark Cole from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sun Nov 1 19:30:06 1998 (modemcable38.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: Really really big fish BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_ppvK7MspnezyCvTDvUHiCQ)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_ppvK7MspnezyCvTDvUHiCQ) After years of fishing for normal size trout using small flies, I didsomething totally different today. I hired a guide and fished a massiveriver containing really big fish: rainbows and browns in the 5 to 10 lbrange, steelhead of 15 lbs, chinook running..., well you get the picture. Wefished huge streamers 4 inches long. Most casts were 40 to 50 ft. I own nobamboo rod up to this task so used a G. Loomis GL3 9 ft. 7 wt, too fast arod for my liking. tiring to cast. I'd like to build a cane rod for this situation. Any suggestions for a taperI might try? It would need to be powerful, yet light enough for thehundredsof casts associated with this type of fishing. I'm thinking possibly a 6 wt.Also, would building such a rod hollow be the way to go? Should I consideraparabolic rod or is a faster action my only choice? Thanks in advance, Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca PS. My guide caught an 18 -inch rainbow. Just a baby he said. I got one hitthat almost yanked the rod from my hands. --Boundary_(ID_ppvK7MspnezyCvTDvUHiCQ) years of fishing for normal size trout using small flies, I did = totally different today. I hired a guide and fished a massive river = really big fish: rainbows and browns in the 5 to 10 lb range, steelhead = lbs, chinook running..., well you get the picture. We fished huge = inches long. Most casts were 40 to 50 ft. I own no bamboo rod up to this = cast. like to build a cane rod for this situation. Any suggestions for a taper = try? It would need to be powerful, yet light enough for the hundreds of = associated with this type of fishing. I'm thinking possibly a 6 wt. = building such a rod hollow be the way to go? Should I consider a = or is a faster action my only choice? in advance, Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca guide caught an 18 -inch rainbow. Just a baby he said. I got one hit = yanked the rod from my hands. --Boundary_(ID_ppvK7MspnezyCvTDvUHiCQ)-- from caneboy@xtn.net Sun Nov 1 19:47:43 1998 Subject: Re: Really really big fish Yahoo Big Fish! Boo Hoo plastic rods! Richard Nantel wrote: After years of fishing for normal size trout using small flies, I didsomething totally different today. I hired a guide and fished amassive river containing really big fish: rainbows and browns in the 5to 10 lb range, steelhead of 15 lbs, chinook running..., well you getthe picture. We fished huge streamers 4 inches long. Most casts were40 to 50 ft. I own no bamboo rod up to this task so used a G. LoomisGL3 9 ft. 7 wt, too fast a rod for my liking. tiring to cast. I'd like to build a cane rod for this situation. Any suggestions for ataper I might try? It would need to be powerful, yet light enough forthe hundreds of casts associated with this type of fishing. I'mthinking possibly a 6 wt. Also, would building such a rod hollow bethe way to go? Should I consider a parabolic rod or is a faster actionmy only choice? Thanks in advance, Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca PS. My guide caught an 18 -inch rainbow. Just a baby he said. I gotone hit that almost yanked the rod from my hands. from channer@hubwest.com Sun Nov 1 21:26:46 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A6D6586012E; Sun, 01 Nov 1998 20:28:22 MDT Subject: Re: When is a Pflugeger not a Pflugeger? At 06:11 PM 11/1/98 -0500, you wrote:cbogart wrote:So Reed(welcome back) do you first check and see that good : "made in U.S.A."on thereel before you buy one - to insure it is not one of those cheaper madeoff shoresomewhere ones??Chris,Of course! The difference in quality is exponential.This is more than just a matter of going offshore, the demand forlow-cost over quality is endemic to our culture. Take the F.E. Thomascompany, before the advent of FRP they manufactured with three grades,but the difference in the quality of the blanks was merely cosmetic.After FRP rods hit the streets the company reduced its quality controlin order to compete on price. Glue gaps and blemishes could then befound on the "better" grade. So sad...Best regards,Reed Reed;What's FRP????John from briansr@point-net.com Sun Nov 1 21:46:45 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Really really big fish boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01BE05E9.728091E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BE05E9.728091E0 Hi RichardThink Spey!!-----Original Message-----From: Richard Nantel Date: 1 novembre, 1998 20:34Subject: Really really big fish After years of fishing for normal size trout using small flies, I =did something totally different today. I hired a guide and fished a =massive river containing really big fish: rainbows and browns in the 5 =to 10 lb range, steelhead of 15 lbs, chinook running..., well you get =the picture. We fished huge streamers 4 inches long. Most casts were 40 =to 50 ft. I own no bamboo rod up to this task so used a G. Loomis GL3 9 = I'd like to build a cane rod for this situation. Any suggestions for =a taper I might try? It would need to be powerful, yet light enough for =the hundreds of casts associated with this type of fishing. I'm thinking =possibly a 6 wt. Also, would building such a rod hollow be the way to =go? Should I consider a parabolic rod or is a faster action my only =choice? Thanks in advance, Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca PS. My guide caught an 18 -inch rainbow. Just a baby he said. I got =one hit that almost yanked the rod from my hands. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BE05E9.728091E0 Hi RichardThink Spey!! -----Original = Rodmakers (E-mail) <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= fish After years of fishing for normal size trout using small = something totally different today. I hired a guide and fished a = river containing really big fish: rainbows and browns in the 5 to 10 = range, steelhead of 15 lbs, chinook running..., well you get the = fished huge streamers 4 inches long. Most casts were 40 to 50 ft. I = fast a rod for my liking. tiring to cast. I'd like to build a cane rod for this situation. Any = a taper I might try? It would need to be powerful, yet light enough = hundreds of casts associated with this type of fishing. I'm thinking = possibly a 6 wt. Also, would building such a rod hollow be the way = choice? Thanks in advance, Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca PS. My guide caught an 18 -inch rainbow. Just a baby he = one hit that almost yanked the rod from my =hands. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BE05E9.728091E0-- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Nov 1 21:46:46 1998 Mon, 2 Nov 1998 11:46:20 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Really really big fish On Sun, 1 Nov 1998, Richard Nantel wrote: After years of fishing for normal size trout using small flies, I didsomething totally different today. I hired a guide and fished a massiveriver containing really big fish: rainbows and browns in the 5 to 10 lbrange, steelhead of 15 lbs, chinook running..., well you get the picture.Wefished huge streamers 4 inches long. Most casts were 40 to 50 ft. I ownnobamboo rod up to this task so used a G. Loomis GL3 9 ft. 7 wt, too fast arod for my liking. tiring to cast. I'd like to build a cane rod for this situation. Any suggestions for a taperI might try? It would need to be powerful, yet light enough for thehundredsof casts associated with this type of fishing. I'm thinking possibly a 6wt.Also, would building such a rod hollow be the way to go? Should Iconsider aparabolic rod or is a faster action my only choice? Thanks in advance, Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca PS. My guide caught an 18 -inch rainbow. Just a baby he said. I got one hitthat almost yanked the rod from my hands. Sounds like you need a PHY Texas General. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Sun Nov 1 22:37:43 1998 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id RAA19497 for ;Mon, 2 Nov 1998 17:37:40+1300 Subject: resorcinal glue I had a little trouble sending this so it is resent in a retun form . Several people asked me if I could send them the technical information onResorcinal glue together with the drying times etc. I picked up the specsheets today and have set out below a summary of these in so far as itmayaffect rodmakers . If anyone would like a set of the spec sheets they canlet me know off line and I can fax them a copy . Resorcinal types . There are two types of glue , know in nz as number 15andnumber 25 . Number 15 is a higher strength then 25 but consideribly moreexpensive . I suspect that 25 is the type commonly purchased fromhardwareshops. Most of the characteristics are similar for both types although 15iseasier to use at lower temperatures . ( ie less then 10 degees C. ) Thecharacteristics set out below are common for both types unless statedotherwise. Some features :- water proof and boil proof, mild gap filling bond - storage life 12 months at 20 C, if stored at less then 20C lessorstorage life may be expected - hardener has the same storage life Directions for use :- mixing by volume 2 parts resorcinal to one part hardener - mixing by weight 4 parts resorcinal to one part hardener - wood moisture content 12 - 16% . ( the technical people tell methat they sometimes get down to 10% but below that there can be majorproblems as the timber " sucks" the glue into the timber and there isdifficulty in leaving another on the surface of the timber to get a goodbind. This may not be such a problem on hardwood (actually grass) such asbamboo)-The NZ spec says the timber should not be sanded but planned , andwithin 24 hours of the glueing . ( I think this is more to do with thetendancy of planks of timber to cup over tie after they have been planned) Pot life of mixed adhesive- after mixing it remains liquid for a limited period after which itgels and becomes unusable. Pot life is defined as two thirds of time forglue mix to gel and is the estimated working life of the glue mix. Pot lifeis dependant on temperature . glue mix temp. 10C 15C 20C 25C 30CPot life 8-11 hrs 4.5-6hr 2.5-3.5hr 1.25-1.75hr .75-1 hr Glue spread- around 350g/m2 if using a double glue line . In practise thismeans that that after pressure a small and regular amount of "squeezeout"is formed. Assembly time This is the time from application of the glue until pressure is applied . Isthe total of "open" assembly time when the glue line is exposed to air and"closed" assembly time when the joint is closed but no pressure isapplied.This is temperature dependant . glue line temp. 15C 20C 25Cmaxm assembly time 60 mins 45 mins 30 mins BUT a minimium assembly time of 10 minutes is recommended , but withopenassembly being 5 minutes maximium . FURTHER " a period of at least 30minutes assembly time is beneficial when glueing dense species.( I guessthis means spread the glue on the strips , wait 2-3 minutes , close thestrips up and wait for up to another 25 minutes before binding). Theoperators of the glueing jigs tell me that it forms a sort of shiney finishif left in open assembly too long and if this is formed then it will notbind , it must have a wet look and final pressure must be applied whiletheglue is wet.) Pressure -For hardwoods 1000 kpa to 1400 kpa . ( I will leave this for you towork out ) Room temperature cure This is NOT full strength cure but adequate for normal handling ( whateverthat means in a rodmaking context)This is temperature dependant as follows Glue line temp 15C 20C 25C 30CMinimium press time 12 hours 7 hours 4 hours 2 hours Conditioning of joints Full strength is not obtained during the pressure period and a number ofdays further curing are required to obtain full strength . This is 5-8 daysat 20C. Time will also be dependant on wood density and mass. One study on pine ( softwood ) showed the following temperature 3500 kpa maximium strengthcured at shear strength 10C 8 days not reached15C 1 day 6 days 20C 16 hours 4 days25C 10 hours 2 days Well, I trust this is enough to terrify everyone in relation to usingresorcinol glue . Actually it means do not leave the strips with glue onthem open to the air for very long , but give the glue time to penetratetheclosed up bamboo strips before you apply binding pressure . It also meansitis not bad to glue in a cold work shop but be sure to put the glued upstrips in some form of warm box after binding for a few days . Alsorememberthat this is a very strong glue and , provided it has not had too long anopen assembly time , the strength of this glue is high even if not at fullstrength. And finally , the spec sheets for other glues such as melemine are equallyas scary . regards Iank from saweiss@flash.net Sun Nov 1 23:29:30 1998 Subject: Re: PHY para14 Does anyone out their in cyberland have the taper for the PHY para 14.Tom in Trout Lake Tom,The following is from the archives: Subject: Para 14 TaperTo all:Have had several requests for this taper so here it is.7' 9" 5 wt. Numbersare without varnish every 5 inches. Cutoff at 46 1/2 ".072 .088 .100 .117 .133 .150 .167 .183 .200 .210 .221 .231 .240.248 .257 .265 .273 .285 .285 .285Works very nice with a swelled butt also.Great rod.George from saweiss@flash.net Sun Nov 1 23:57:25 1998 Subject: Re: Perfectionist at work : Perfectionist at work To the list, I am in the process of transforming a room of my house into a "RodMaking Stuart,Height will depend on your comfort zone. I went around for a whilepretending to plane at various benches and tables until I found mypreference. The top should be at least 6' long and if you have the space,you should be able to work on both sides. I have a 6' stick-on rule on thetop of one side, and do my layouts and staggering there. Make the top thickenough to be heavy. Mine is butcher block birch,1 3/4" thick.A woodworking vise is pretty handy and I would say almost essential.I have two steel pedestal/drawer units supporting the top and the spacebetween them is a perfect place to park my shop-vac.If you have room, another bench at sit-down height is great forrod-wrapping, finishing, and flytying. Mine is a nice and thick (and flat)Formica covered table top, also supported by steel drawer towers, allsurplus from local sources. Check with cabinet shops for tops that theyhaveas seconds or as take-outs from renovations.Don't spare on bench vises. At least one woodworking with at least 7"wood-lined jaw and one machinist's type with about 4" jaws.Keep on the lookout for a used drafting chair that is nice and high and acomfortable used desk chair for the sit-down work.Steve Weiss from Rodsofcane@aol.com Mon Nov 2 04:50:20 1998 Subject: Re: Really really big fish First off, what are you doing letting your guide fish! Guides are suppose toguide, not fish.What about a Dickerson - 8014 Guide My two centsKent K. Anderson from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Mon Nov 2 06:38:28 1998 HAA04759 Subject: RE: H.Carmichael His father was the guy! Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, October 30, 1998 9:31 PM Subject: H.Carmichael Would anyone know if Hoagy Carmicheal the rodmaker was themusician orH.C.jrTIA Brian Sturrock from saltwein@swbell.net Mon Nov 2 06:57:45 1998 GAA02093 Subject: Workbench My work bench used to belong to the USN. There is a metal tag at theend of it that calls this out. I bought it at an auction that was,luckily, about a mile from my house. It belonged to a guy who had beena carpenter for 60 years. There were about ten of us who loaded it intothe back of my 3/4 ton pickup. Three of us unloaded it into mygarage/basement by sliding-blocking-levering it to the floor. We thenlevered and blocked it onto its legs, as it was on its top, nce we hadit on its legs it was fairly simple to slide it into position. It has been there 10 years and hasn't moved. It is 3'x12' and made fromsolid maple 2bys with an oak top. I had to cover the top because it hadtaken so much abuse over the years. It probably weighs over 700 poundsand it does not move. To my mind the three essentials of a bench are-theright height, level top, solid. The bench is about hip height but for cane work I have two 2x6-8' on topof it that I work off of. Oh, by the way, the bench had two vises on itwhen I bought it for $45. I still have the wood working vise, but Itraded the machinist vise for a new Forrester II saw blade. One of thefew good deals I didn't pass up over the years. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from Fallcreek9@aol.com Mon Nov 2 07:11:36 1998 Subject: Re: Perfectionist at work In a message dated 11/1/98 11:58:10 AM Central Standard Time,Turbotrk@aol.comwrites: Stuart: A couple of thoughts: If you have room, longer is better. Byhappenstance, my bench is 2-feet x ten-feet and I am very happy to havetheroom. Often for layout of a rod or strips or whatever, the extra lenght isquite useable. Also, you might consider a wood of some kind, includingplywood, which is what I used (2 layers of 1/2"). One is always cutting orscribing somthing, and the yield of wood is necessary, for me anyway. Justremember to use finishing nails and sink them about 3/16" so blade tipsdo notencounter them. Welcome to the wonderful world of bamboo rod making. Do not hesitate toaskany question - we have all been there. Best Regards,Richard Tyree from robrown@wt.net Mon Nov 2 07:29:07 1998 Subject: test mac-creator="4D4F5353" TEST from robrown@wt.net Mon Nov 2 07:31:01 1998 Subject: Test mac-creator="4D4F5353" Test from jaquin@netsync.net Mon Nov 2 07:41:39 1998 quartz.netsync.net (8.8.5/8.6.12)with SMTP id IAA18100 for ; Mon, 2 Nov1998 08:41:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Really really big fish Richard Nantel wrote: After years of fishing for normal size trout using small flies, I didsomething totally different today. I hired a guide and fished amassive river containing really big fish: rainbows and browns in the 5to 10 lb range, steelhead of 15 lbs, chinook running..., well you getthe picture. We fished huge streamers 4 inches long. Most casts were40 to 50 ft. I own no bamboo rod up to this task so used a G. LoomisGL3 9 ft. 7 wt, too fast a rod for my liking. tiring to cast. I'd like to build a cane rod for this situation. Any suggestions for ataper I might try? It would need to be powerful, yet light enough forthe hundreds of casts associated with this type of fishing. I'mthinking possibly a 6 wt. Also, would building such a rod hollow bethe way to go? Should I consider a parabolic rod or is a faster actionmy only choice? Thanks in advance, Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca PS. My guide caught an 18 -inch rainbow. Just a baby he said. I gotone hit that almost yanked the rod from my hands. I was fishing Cattaraugus Creek in western New York State yesterday. Metsevral canadians, who were fishing "noodle rods" large single actionreels and light monfilament. Mostly bait fishing. They certainly hadgood technique on the drift fishing, and caught the majority of thefish. Does anyone have a Noodle rod taper for a 12 to 15 foot rod? Ineed to into this game. from destinycon@mindspring.com Mon Nov 2 08:12:27 1998 Subject: Re: Perfectionist at work At 12:53 PM 11/1/98 EST, you wrote:What does the list think should be required as far asheight, length, width if they had their druthers. stuart miller Stuart,Keep in mind the height of the other tools in your shop. I have all mytools (table saw, jointer, shaper, etc.) at the same height (34"- I'm 5'10"and this is comfortable for me). My shop is not large enough for any of mylarger tools to remain stationary so keeping everything at the same heightallows me to use my bench as an out feed table when needed. Gary H. from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Mon Nov 2 08:48:58 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id IAA24845 for; Mon, 2 (8.8.4/8.6.8) with SMTP idIAA17939 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 08:48:46 - Subject: Re: (WAS) Perfectionist, now workbench My basement is such a cluttered mess I could die down there and the family wouldn't find me for months. I've got a workbench I use for planing, but every extra inch is so covered with unfinished projects that coming up with a big, flat space is impossible. So I found an old ironing board at a resale shop and screwed on a plywood top about 5ft by 20in. Its long enough for jobs like splicing nodeless strips and glueup, etc. And the height is adjustable, it can be moved about, and it folds up and out of the way when not in use. Makes an excellent extra space for rodmaking, saving the table saw top for mixing paint etc.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from ljrp@penn.com Mon Nov 2 09:32:33 1998 Subject: Re: (WAS) Perfectionist, now workbench My kind of guy!!!!!!! Frank Stetzer wrote: My basement is such a cluttered mess I could die down there and thefamily wouldn't find me for months. I've got a workbench I use forplaning, but every extra inch is so covered with unfinished projectsthat coming up with a big, flat space is impossible. So I found anold ironing board at a resale shop and screwed on a plywood top about5ft by 20in. Its long enough for jobs like splicing nodeless stripsand glueup, etc. And the height is adjustable, it can be moved about,and it folds up and out of the way when not in use. Makes an excellentextra space for rodmaking, saving the table saw top for mixing paint etc.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from Nodewrrior@aol.com Mon Nov 2 09:38:15 1998 Subject: Re:Handmill order Dear Mr. Morgan,I hope I'm not being too annoying, but I was wonderring what the ETA wasonthe handmill I back ordered last summer. Somewhere in my pile of papers(wejust moved!) I have a receipt from the down payment. I can find it should Ineed to do so. Also, note that I have a new address.I'm just getting excited to make the next step in rod production. Sincerely, Robert Hoffhines2600 Thornwood aveWilmette, IL 60091(847)853-1662 from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon Nov 2 10:04:30 1998 Subject: Murphy I also have a very low luck factor. I find that Mr. Murphy is incomplete control of almost everything I do.John(Livin in the past)Channer Must be a relative of the same Murphy that lurks in the corners of myshop!!J. Snider. from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Mon Nov 2 10:21:46 1998 Subject: Re: Perfectionist at work At 12:53 01/11/98 EST, you wrote:To the list, I am in the process of transforming a room of my house into a "RodMakingRoom" to build my first bamboo rod. I would like to start with the worktablethat I will be using. What does the list think should be required as far asheight, length, width if they had their druthers. I know this sounds like astupid question but, not having actually done a lot of planing, it seemstherewould be a correct position for perfect planing. Also, what should thetopsurface be? I have heard that plexiglass would be good. I have aperfectionists attitude and do not want to start unless all is perfect. Second question: is there any reason not to use clear red oak for roughplaning forms? It is considerably cheaper then maple in my neck of thewoods. soon to be a rod builderstuart miller Stuart, My bench where I plane is 14' long and is @ the height that is forcomfortable planning. The reason the bench is so long is that Iincorporated my cane storage underneath the bench. The storage holdsabout80 culms. Under the culms are stored all the long things you'll need likeforms, run on/off rails for the binder and the like. One end is supportedwith a drawer unit. The bench has 2 woodworkers vises spotted along it.Thetop is 2*4 on edge laminated construction overlayed by 1/4" masonite thatwas trimmed to the bench size. Masonite was chosen as it is somewhatsoft,glue peels off easy and the top costs little to replace. The bench is lagbolted to the walls and floor. You could butcher a moose on it. The benchis 2' wide so that the peg board in front of it is easily accessible. Thepeg board holds most the stuff you'll need for rod making. The bench thatattaches to the planning bench forming an "L" shape is 8' long and holdsthe lathe, grinder & 4" machinist vise. It also has drawer units underneath have two florescent ballasts each holding 2 bulbs on the 14'er and twoballasts each holding 1 bulb on the 8'er. And I wish I had more light onthe 8'er. And isn't this fun. And just wait till you get to the splitting part. regards, Don from stpete@netten.net Mon Nov 2 10:24:54 1998 cedar.netten.net(8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA02988 for ;Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:24:37 Subject: Re: (WAS) Perfectionist, now workbench Now THIS is an excellent idea! Rick Crenshaw Frank Stetzer wrote: My basement is such a cluttered mess I could die down there and thefamily wouldn't find me for months. I've got a workbench I use forplaning, but every extra inch is so covered with unfinished projectsthat coming up with a big, flat space is impossible. So I found anold ironing board at a resale shop and screwed on a plywood top about5ft by 20in. Its long enough for jobs like splicing nodeless stripsand glueup, etc. And the height is adjustable, it can be moved about,and it folds up and out of the way when not in use. Makes an excellentextra space for rodmaking, saving the table saw top for mixing paint etc.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from dellc@nextdim.com Mon Nov 2 10:26:14 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id AA0B5E9011C; Mon, 02 Nov 1998 08:12:59 PDT Subject: Re: (WAS) Perfectionist, now workbench Frank, we need to compare work areas, I never thought I would ever hearanyone admit to having a basement work shop as cluttered as mine.Dell Coppock-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: (WAS) Perfectionist, now workbench My basement is such a cluttered mess I could die down there and thefamily wouldn't find me for months. I've got a workbench I use forplaning, but every extra inch is so covered with unfinished projectsthat coming up with a big, flat space is impossible. So I found anold ironing board at a resale shop and screwed on a plywood top about5ft by 20in. Its long enough for jobs like splicing nodeless stripsand glueup, etc. And the height is adjustable, it can be moved about,and it folds up and out of the way when not in use. Makes an excellentextra space for rodmaking, saving the table saw top for mixing paint etc.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from FlyTyr@southshore.com Mon Nov 2 11:20:40 1998 (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP 11:21:56 -0600 Subject: Sowbug Roundup The North Arkansas Flyfishers will be holding The Sow Bug Roundup 99(Fly fishing show) in Ht. Home, Ar. on March 19-20, 1999. We would beinterested in having a Bamboo Rod demo at the show. If there is anyoneor a group that would like to put on a program or demonstrate contactme off list. There will be no pay other than a good meal on Friday nightand the friendship of the club.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from briansr@point-net.com Mon Nov 2 11:44:32 1998 0000 Subject: forms question Hi allI'm about ready to get 3 planing forms done . before the machinist startsi would like to know if the interior or touching surfaces have to be milledor can they be merely de-burred. I'm asking this question because I don'tthey will actually ever touch except possibly at one end for somee tinyrod.BTW using CRS stockTIA Brian Sturrock from tfinger@services.state.mo.us Mon Nov 2 12:20:32 1998 Subject: Re: When is a Leonard not a Leonard Bret wrote: I have to disagree with you on an orvis battenkill or a madison being abetterrod than a Leonard Duracane. I own both and the Leonard will thro a muchbetter line than the orvis any day. As a matter of fact I would sell theorvis rods in a heart beat and never let the Leonard go. Bret Hi, Bret, If you really want to sell those rods cheap, please contact me :-))! Seriously, I guess this is what makes all this so interesting; our opinions are undoubtedly formed by individual casting styles, certain models in a given rodmaker's offerings, and quite likely individual rods within each model. My opinions are based on several Battenkills, Madisons, and 99's that I own and fish; they range from 6-1/2' to 8-1/2' and are all 30-40 years old. (I have no idea what Orvis' newer rods are like). I also really like my early -70's vintage Leonard 38 and 39H. These Orvis and "true" Leonard rods just seem to fish better somewhat slower, progressive tapers; perhaps this preference plays a role as well. Just out of curiousity, does anyone know for sure if:1) the Duracanes were truly built on Sharpes' blanks; and2) if so, were the tapers designed and specified by Leonard or were they standard Sharpes models? Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Mon Nov 2 12:45:20 1998 Subject: Re: (WAS) Perfectionist, now workbench Frank,Sounds like my garage. I have a two car garage that in 22 yrs has onlyseen a car for two weeks at most. For several years, part of it was afifth bedroom. That has been torn out but the closet remains. I have a work bench that my dad built, three storage cabinets, one shelfunit, a lathe in disassembly being rebuilt, a table saw, joiner, drillpress, parts washer, several tables and a lot of junk setting around.The top of my workbench is stacked with about a foot of stuff formvarious projects. But just let anybody touch anything anywhere in thegarage and I'll know it immediately. I have a sign that I lay on top ofeverything that says "Don't straighten out this mess, you'll screw up mysystem" My wife says that every time she opens the garage door, people flock outin front thinking there is a Garage Sale going on in there. I think shewould give it all away if she could. I tell her it'll give me somethingto do when I retire to keep me out of her hair. I also tell her that ifshe would let me build a two and a half car garage in the back yard shecould park her car in the present garage. So far she hasn't allowed meto do that. Hang in there, we'll know if your missing. We'll send out the dogs ifneed be. Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net from CALucker@aol.com Mon Nov 2 12:49:54 1998 Subject: Re: H.Carmichael Bix Bidiker or however you spell it.Chris Lucker from ljrp@penn.com Mon Nov 2 13:07:42 1998 Subject: Re: When is a Leonard not a Leonard I just sold a Leonard 39H and it would cast an absolute ton of line TERRY FINGER wrote: Bret wrote: I have to disagree with you on an orvis battenkill or a madison being abetterrod than a Leonard Duracane. I own both and the Leonard will thro amuchbetter line than the orvis any day. As a matter of fact I would sell theorvis rods in a heart beat and never let the Leonard go.Bret Hi, Bret, If you really want to sell those rods cheap, please contact me :-))! Seriously, I guess this is what makes all this so interesting; ouropinions are undoubtedly formed by individual casting styles, certainmodels in a given rodmaker's offerings, and quite likely individualrods within each model. My opinions are based on several Battenkills, Madisons,and 99's that I own and fish; they range from 6-1/2' to 8-1/2' andare all 30-40 years old. (I have no idea what Orvis' newer rodsare like). I also really like my early -70's vintage Leonard 38 and39H. These Orvis and "true" Leonard rods just seem to fish better somewhat slower, progressive tapers; perhaps this preference plays arole as well. Just out of curiousity, does anyone know for sure if:1) the Duracanes were truly built on Sharpes' blanks; and2) if so, were the tapers designed and specified by Leonard orwere they standard Sharpes models? Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Mon Nov 2 13:17:21 1998 (modemcable38.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Really really big fish BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_kFpj3PL422ffIG4nOV4AJg)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_kFpj3PL422ffIG4nOV4AJg) Hi Brian, A spey rod would be ideal for this situation: long casts, big upstreammends, and all this in water up to your waist. Plus, casting a two-handedrod would likely be much less tiring than fishing a single-handed 9 ft 7wt. I have a pal in Montreal who's planning on building spey rods and, bynecessity, machining his own spey rod ferrules. I can hardly wait to tryouthis creations. I feel, though, that building a cane spey rod may be a bitout of my league for now. Perhaps a graphite spey rod wouldn't be so bad,though... Thanks Richard-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Sunday, November 01, 1998 10:46 PM Subject: Re: Really really big fish Hi RichardThink Spey!!-----Original Message-----From: Richard Nantel Date: 1 novembre, 1998 20:34Subject: Really really big fish After years of fishing for normal size trout using small flies, Idid something totally different today. I hired a guide and fished a massiveriver containing really big fish: rainbows and browns in the 5 to 10 lbrange, steelhead of 15 lbs, chinook running..., well you get the picture. Wefished huge streamers 4 inches long. Most casts were 40 to 50 ft. I own nobamboo rod up to this task so used a G. Loomis GL3 9 ft. 7 wt, too fast arod for my liking. tiring to cast. I'd like to build a cane rod for this situation. Any suggestions fora taper I might try? It would need to be powerful, yet light enough for thehundreds of casts associated with this type of fishing. I'm thinkingpossibly a 6 wt. Also, would building such a rod hollow be the way to go?Should I consider a parabolic rod or is a faster action my only choice? Thanks in advance, Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca PS. My guide caught an 18 -inch rainbow. Just a baby he said. I gotone hit that almost yanked the rod from my hands. --Boundary_(ID_kFpj3PL422ffIG4nOV4AJg) Brian, rod would be ideal for this situation: long casts, big upstream mends, = this in water up to your waist. Plus, casting a two-handed rod would = much less tiring than fishing a single-handed 9 ft 7 wt. = a pal in Montreal who's planning on building spey rods and, by = machining his own spey rod ferrules. I can hardly wait to try out his = I feel, though, that building a cane spey rod may be a bit out of my = though... Thanks Richard SturrockSent: Sunday, November 01, 1998 10:46 = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Really really fishHi RichardThink Spey!! Rodmakers (E-mail) <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= fish After years of fishing for normal size trout using = did something totally different today. I hired a guide and = massive river containing really big fish: rainbows and browns in = to 10 lb range, steelhead of 15 lbs, chinook running..., well = the picture. We fished huge streamers 4 inches long. Most casts = to 50 ft. I own no bamboo rod up to this task so used a G. = I'd like to build a cane rod for this situation. Any = thinking possibly a 6 wt. Also, would building such a rod hollow = way to go? Should I consider a parabolic rod or is a faster = only choice? Thanks in advance, Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca PS. My guide caught an 18 -inch rainbow. Just a baby he = hands. --Boundary_(ID_kFpj3PL422ffIG4nOV4AJg)-- from CPETERS@rivertrade.com Mon Nov 2 13:19:58 1998 with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 02 Nov 1998 12:38:11 -0600 Subject: Semi-hollow rods and tip-tops I am a beginner, just finishing my first rod, starting my second andplanning (not planing) mythird. Since this is my first communication to the list after months ofsilently benefiting from the wisdom and experiences of others, I should start by thanking allthose who share theirwisdom and experience with those of us who are starting out. I havefriends who have less time My first question is basic: is there a trick to wrapping tip-tops? In mylimited experimentsthis is the one wrap that invariably looks odd. The step-down from tip-top to tip sectioncreates a "break-point" that I haven't yet conquered. Am I particularlyinept (be kind!), or isthere a trick? Should I be tapering the base of the tip-top somehow? How? My second question relates to my planned third rod. I would like to build aPHY Texas Generalbut the weight concerns me. Where could I get information on buildingsemi-hollow rods? Isthis a black art, practiced quietly, in the black of night, outside the viewof others or hassomeone attempted to document the process? Best of all, has anyone builta Texas Generalsemi-hollow and lived to speak of it? Any help you can give will begreatly appreciated. from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Mon Nov 2 13:34:06 1998 (modemcable38.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Really really big fish Hi Kent. This was the first time in my life hiring a guide. I suggested he fish too.This is HUGE water so there's no danger of crowding good spots. Also, I get(almost) as much of a kick watching someone catch a big fish as catchingonemyself. Richard -----Original Message----- Rodsofcane@aol.com Subject: Re: Really really big fish First off, what are you doing letting your guide fish! Guides are suppose toguide, not fish.What about a Dickerson - 8014 Guide My two centsKent K. Anderson from dellc@nextdim.com Mon Nov 2 13:39:47 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A75DA5F01E4; Mon, 02 Nov 1998 11:26:21 PDT Subject: Re: Semi-hollow rods and tip-tops When wrapping the tiptop I start on the rod and wrap towards the tiptop atthe tiptop I wrap back over for a short distance and tie off.Dell Coppock--- --Original Message----- Subject: Semi-hollow rods and tip-tops I am a beginner, just finishing my first rod, starting my second andplanning (not planing) my third. Since this is my first communication tothe list after months of silently benefiting from the wisdom andexperiencesof others, I should start by thanking all those who share their wisdom andexperience with those of us who are starting out. I have friends who haveless time for my questions! My first question is basic: is there a trick to wrapping tip-tops? In mylimited experiments this is the one wrap that invariably looks odd. Thestep-down from tip-top to tip section creates a "break-point" that Ihaven'tyet conquered. Am I particularly inept (be kind!), or is there a trick?Should I be tapering the base of the tip-top somehow? How? My second question relates to my planned third rod. I would like to builda PHY Texas General but the weight concerns me. Where could I getinformation on building semi-hollow rods? Is this a black art, practicedquietly, in the black of night, outside the view of others or has someoneattempted to document the process? Best of all, has anyone built a TexasGeneral semi-hollow and lived to speak of it? Any help you can give willbegreatly appreciated. from gwr@seanet.com Mon Nov 2 13:40:33 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA14500 for; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 Subject: Re: tip-tops boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01BE0655.ED4288E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BE0655.ED4288E0 boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0011_01BE0655.ED4288E0" ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01BE0655.ED4288E0Content-Type:text/plain; Hi Curt, There is a simple solution to your tip wrap problems: don't wrap =over the tube of the tip top. Simply wrap up to the edge of the tube. =This wrap is mere decoration and does not serve to help retain the tip =top. Best, Russ Golden Witch Rods - "Tools For Natural Philosophy"Golden Witch Technologies, Inc. - "The Golden Age Is Now"gwr@seanet.comhttp://www.goldenwitch.com snip My first question is basic: is there a trick to wrapping tip-tops? =In my limited experiments this is the one wrap that invariably looks =odd. The step-down from tip-top to tip section creates a "break-point" =that I haven't yet conquered. Am I particularly inept (be kind!), or is =there a trick? Should I be tapering the base of the tip-top somehow? =How? snip ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01BE0655.ED4288E0 Hi Curt, There is = decoration and does not serve to help retain the tip top. Best, Russ = "Tools For Natural Philosophy"Golden Witch snipMy first question is= How?snip ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01BE0655.ED4288E0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BE0655.ED4288E0 name="Golden Witch.vcf" filename="Golden Witch.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDN:Gooding;John;R.FN:Golden WitchORG:Golden WitchTITLE:Rod Maker &c.TEL;WORK;VOICE:(425) 787- 6599TEL;PAGER;VOICE:noneTEL;WORK;FAX:noneADR;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A;Lynnwood;WA;98037;USALABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A=3D0D=3D0ALynnwood, WA =98037=3D0D=3D0AUSAURL:noneURL:http://www.goldenwitch.comEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:gwr@seanet.comEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BE0655.ED4288E0-- from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Nov 2 13:40:45 1998 Subject: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight Lately I have had the good fortune of being able to castand actually fish with quite a few different cane rods. I have noticed that some rods feel light when castingthem, although their actual weight is the same as otherrods. What prompted me to write this is I have four rods on extendedloan to me from BFRM. Two Phillipsons and two Grangers. Allof them are 8 1/2 feet long. The Phillipsons are the Pacemaker and the Pow'rPak't. One Granger is the Special and the otherone was refinished and the name was removed. The Phillipsons are close to 1/2 ounce heavier than the Grangers,but feel lighter when actually casting a line. They also feel lighterwhen they are assembled and I'm just whipping them back andforth in the air. They do feel heavier when just holding them still. I think it would be interesting to do a weight distrubution graphalong with a stress curve to see if the way the weight isdistributed has anything to do with the perception of weightwhen casting. My feeling is that stiffer "faster" rods will be perceived as being heavier than slower rods. Darryl from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon Nov 2 13:46:13 1998 via smap (4.1) 11:50:35 PST Subject: RE: Semi-hollow rods and tip-tops Curt, To start I would select a tip top that fits tight or requires a little material to be removed from the apex's. You're probably already doing this. If you are using the standard 3/0 size thread then the edge is unavoidable. You could brush a couple of extra coats over this particular wrap to get a higher build that transitions to the tip top better. You could use a heavier size thread like A, but then you have a step between base of wrap and bamboo. If you do the size A at the tiptop to even the transition from wrap to tiptop then you could use 3/0 tipping to create a gradual step down from main wrap (Size A) to tipping size 3/0 to bamboo. You could also have a 6-10 turn transition wrap next to the tip top and then a longer wrap that starts a few turns before and overlays onto the underwrap to the edge of the tiptop. Normally used to wrap over ferrules with less tapered sleeves. These are probably ideas you have already considered. I don't know that I would try to feather the edge of a tiptop unless you plan to wrap up over it. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from tomchandler@earthlink.net Mon Nov 2 14:05:20 1998 Subject: Re: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight Darryl: The Phillipsons are close to 1/2 ounce heavier than the Grangers,but feel lighter when actually casting a line. They also feel lighterwhen they are assembled and I'm just whipping them back andforth in the air. They do feel heavier when just holding them still. I'm curious about this since I was always under the impression that BillPhillipson used the exact same taper for the 8.5' Phillipson that he used atGranger. Mike Sinclair has said the same thing. Am I wrong about this? Ifnot, what would account for the different in weight and feel? I can see I'm going to have to drag out my Granger Aristocrat and compareitto my Phillipson Power-Pakt. In any case, I think your original point about how a rod "feels" is aninteresting one that goes a long ways towards explaining the trend towardultra-fast rods in graphite -- if you've ever watched someone buy graphiteat a fly shop, they simply go down the rack picking up rods (without reelorline). The ones that feel the lightest in their hand (the fastest tapers)are the ones that get set aside for casting in the parking lot, where theytry to throw 80 feet every cast. I'm still amazed that actual "fishability" bears so little on their finaldecision. Finally, as a lurker on this list who has yet to build a rod, I'd like tooffer my thanks to everyone who contributes so much. I almost believe Icando this, and this from one of the "un-handiest" guys of his generation...8-) Tight lines,TC -----Original Message----- Subject: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight Lately I have had the good fortune of being able to castand actually fish with quite a few different cane rods. Ihave noticed that some rods feel light when castingthem, although their actual weight is the same as otherrods. What prompted me to write this is I have four rods on extendedloan to me from BFRM. Two Phillipsons and two Grangers. Allof them are 8 1/2 feet long. The Phillipsons are the Pacemakerand the Pow'rPak't. One Granger is the Special and the otherone was refinished and the name was removed. The Phillipsons are close to 1/2 ounce heavier than the Grangers,but feel lighter when actually casting a line. They also feel lighterwhen they are assembled and I'm just whipping them back andforth in the air. They do feel heavier when just holding them still. I think it would be interesting to do a weight distrubution graphalong with a stress curve to see if the way the weight isdistributed has anything to do with the perception of weightwhen casting. My feeling is that stiffer "faster" rods will beperceived as being heavier than slower rods. Darryl from channer@hubwest.com Mon Nov 2 14:09:27 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A1CF9470112; Mon, 02 Nov 1998 13:10:55 MDT Subject: Re: (WAS) Perfectionist, now workbench At 08:48 AM 11/2/98 -0600, you wrote:and it folds up and out of the way when not in use. Makes an excellent extra space for rodmaking, saving the table saw top for mixing paint etc.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is better Frank;Mixing paint? Everyone knows that the table saw top is where the bindergoes!John from channer@hubwest.com Mon Nov 2 14:13:27 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A2C31F40136; Mon, 02 Nov 1998 13:14:59 MDT Subject: Re: Murphy At 11:02 AM 11/2/98 -0500, you wrote:I also have a very low luck factor. I find that Mr. Murphy is incomplete control of almost everything I do.John(Livin in the past)Channer Must be a relative of the same Murphy that lurks in the corners of myshop!!J. Snider. Jerry;If you look in the phone book, or do a web search, I am sure you will findthat there are Murphy's everywhere. I wish they would all move in togethersomewhere where there are no trout streams and nobody builds bamboorods.John from channer@hubwest.com Mon Nov 2 14:17:26 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A3B57BD007A; Mon, 02 Nov 1998 13:19:01 MDT Subject: Re: Perfectionist at work At 09:53 AM 11/2/98, you wrote: Stuart, My bench where I plane is 14' long and is @ the height that is forcomfortable planning. The reason the bench is so long is that Iincorporated my cane storage underneath the bench. The storage holdsabout80 culms. Under the culms are stored all the long things you'll need likeforms, run on/off rails for the binder and the like. One end is supportedwith a drawer unit. The bench has 2 woodworkers vises spotted along it.Thetop is 2*4 on edge laminated construction overlayed by 1/4" masonitethatwas trimmed to the bench size. Masonite was chosen as it is somewhatsoft,glue peels off easy and the top costs little to replace. The bench is lagbolted to the walls and floor. You could butcher a moose on it. The benchis 2' wide so that the peg board in front of it is easily accessible. Thepeg board holds most the stuff you'll need for rod making. The bench thatattaches to the planning bench forming an "L" shape is 8' long and holdsthe lathe, grinder & 4" machinist vise. It also has drawer unitsunderneath have two florescent ballasts each holding 2 bulbs on the 14'er and twoballasts each holding 1 bulb on the 8'er. And I wish I had more light onthe 8'er. And isn't this fun. And just wait till you get to the splitting part. regards, Don Will you guys please stop it!!! You're making me feel under-equipped, now Iwill not only have a complex, but I'll proably go out and spend themortgage payment on an addition to the shop and a new work bench. Youwantthat on yourconcience's?John from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Nov 2 14:18:16 1998 Subject: Re: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight In a message dated 11/2/98 12:13:05 PM Pacific Standard Time,tomchandler@earthlink.net writes: I'm curious about this since I was always under the impression that BillPhillipson used the exact same taper for the 8.5' Phillipson that he usedatGranger. Mike Sinclair has said the same thing. Am I wrong about this?Ifnot, what would account for the different in weight and feel? I'm in the process of mic'ing them all out now. Stay tuned...Darryl from LambersonW@missouri.edu Mon Nov 2 14:19:12 1998 (5.5.2232.9) Subject: RE: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight Darryl - Does the balance point differ among these rods? If so, is thatassociated with your perception of weight? I might have guessed thatfastrods would have more of their weight concentrated toward the butt andfeellighter. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, November 02, 1998 1:38 PM Subject: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight Lately I have had the good fortune of being able to castand actually fish with quite a few different cane rods. I have noticed that some rods feel light when castingthem, although their actual weight is the same as otherrods. What prompted me to write this is I have four rods onextendedloan to me from BFRM. Two Phillipsons and two Grangers. Allof them are 8 1/2 feet long. The Phillipsons are thePacemaker and the Pow'rPak't. One Granger is the Special and the otherone was refinished and the name was removed. The Phillipsons are close to 1/2 ounce heavier than theGrangers,but feel lighter when actually casting a line. They alsofeel lighterwhen they are assembled and I'm just whipping them back andforth in the air. They do feel heavier when just holdingthem still. I think it would be interesting to do a weight distrubutiongraphalong with a stress curve to see if the way the weight isdistributed has anything to do with the perception of weightwhen casting. My feeling is that stiffer "faster" rods willbe perceived as being heavier than slower rods. Darryl from gwbarnes@gwi.net Mon Nov 2 14:22:54 1998 Subject: Re: (WAS) Perfectionist, now workbench I hate to tell you, but you both fall in the novice category. When you canputa 24' x 36' shop with a 12' x 36' annex in worse condition that you depict,then you'll have something to brag about. Just ask anyone who's been in myshop. Find you for months? Hell, if I died in my shop it would be anarchaeologistthat would come across me and just imagine the report he'd write aboutthatancient civilization. Dell wrote: Frank, we need to compare work areas, I never thought I would ever hearanyone admit to having a basement work shop as cluttered as mine.Dell Coppock-----Original Message-----From: Frank Stetzer Date: Monday, November 02, 1998 5:42 AMSubject: Re: (WAS) Perfectionist, now workbench My basement is such a cluttered mess I could die down there and thefamily wouldn't find me for months. I've got a workbench I use forplaning, but every extra inch is so covered with unfinished projectsthat coming up with a big, flat space is impossible. So I found anold ironing board at a resale shop and screwed on a plywood top about5ft by 20in. Its long enough for jobs like splicing nodeless stripsand glueup, etc. And the height is adjustable, it can be moved about,and it folds up and out of the way when not in use. Makes an excellentextra space for rodmaking, saving the table saw top for mixing paintetc.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from channer@hubwest.com Mon Nov 2 14:26:13 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A5C37C9007A; Mon, 02 Nov 1998 13:27:47 MDT Subject: Re: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight At 02:38 PM 11/2/98 EST, you wrote: Lately I have had the good fortune of being able to castand actually fish with quite a few different cane rods. I have noticed that some rods feel light when castingthem, although their actual weight is the same as otherrods. What prompted me to write this is I have four rods on extendedloan to me from BFRM. Two Phillipsons and two Grangers. Allof them are 8 1/2 feet long. The Phillipsons are the Pacemaker and the Pow'rPak't. One Granger is the Special and the otherone was refinished and the name was removed. The Phillipsons are close to 1/2 ounce heavier than the Grangers,but feel lighter when actually casting a line. They also feel lighterwhen they are assembled and I'm just whipping them back andforth in the air. They do feel heavier when just holding them still. I think it would be interesting to do a weight distrubution graphalong with a stress curve to see if the way the weight isdistributed has anything to do with the perception of weightwhen casting. My feeling is that stiffer "faster" rods will be perceived as being heavier than slower rods. Darryl Darryl;Have you measured these rods? I have only measured one Phillipson(aPacemaker, 5wt. I think), but it has several places where the taperchanges rod, thus making it feel lighter, or I could be full of hot air. Just athought.John from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Nov 2 15:51:24 1998 Subject: Re: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight I might have guessed that fastrods would have more of their weight concentrated toward the butt andfeellighter. My guess would be the exact opposite. Something has to bemaking the rod stiffer, and that has to be more bamboo. More bamboo, more weight, and farther away from the handle - more leverage.Thiswould make it feel heavier. Darryl from fritzwiese@webtv.net Mon Nov 2 15:57:20 1998 105.iap.bryant.webtv.net v.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id 111.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) ETAtAhUAoglY2oqoqCLT7Q0rKpXZ2Qtu9Y4CFCS1V8/nvWCUiFzBXoRlr/NJOaPi Subject: Spar Varnish Would like the lists opinion on what spar varnish to use for restoraton.Mentioned before that I used to use Val Spar, but I just can't find thatanymore. I have been told that the mixtures for spar have changedsince the EPA.Anybody use a spar that is not synthetic? Fritz Wiese from jhewitt@cmn.net Mon Nov 2 15:59:07 1998 Subject: Hendryx Rod To all...I'm new to your list, and find the information and banter fascinating aswell as informative. Recently I recieved a rod for restoration that Iknow nothing about. I hope someone will be able to help me put a historyon this rod.The rod is a "HENDRYX". It is a 9'4" 3/2. The bamboo has been flamedto a deep rich color. Windings are brown tipped in black. The cork gripis 7 1/2 inches long and the DL sliding band reel seat is 3 1/2 incheslong. The rod has no writing or decals on the bamboo. However, on thereel seat sliding band is "PAT. FEB 1921". Then on the butt cap is:HENDRYXtrade markMade in U.S.A.7575Other than Missing a hook keeper and a stripping guide the rod is inremarkably good shape. Any information concerning HENDRYX bamboo rodswould be extremely helpful. Thanks!!John H. from dhaftel@att.com Mon Nov 2 16:06:30 1998 sender att.com!dhaftel (att.com!dhaftel); Mon Nov 2 15:50 EST 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2 sol2) (5.5.2232.9) Subject: RE: Perfectionist at work Hey John, I'm working on my coffee table in my living room! How's that for acomplex!!?? At least I can listen to some good music while I plane! Dennis -----Original Message-----From: john channer [SMTP:channer@hubwest.com]Sent: Monday, November 02, 1998 9:00 AM Subject: Re: Perfectionist at work Will you guys please stop it!!! You're making me feel under-equipped, nowIwill not only have a complex, but I'll proably go out and spend themortgage payment on an addition to the shop and a new work bench. Youwantthat on yourconcience's?John from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Mon Nov 2 16:22:27 1998 Subject: RE: Perfectionist at work Dennis,Don't I remember you saying that your not married? If I'm right, that'swhy you can get away with that. I know guys that have rebuilt theirtruck or car engines in the living room or on the dining room table whenthey were single. When you get married forget it. The living spacebelongs to SWMBO.Dick Fuhrnandickay@alltel.net from anglport@con2.com Mon Nov 2 16:26:00 1998 Subject: Re: H.Carmichael Close enough!!(Bix Beiderbeck; I once heard a little girl refer to him as "Big SpiderBack") Guess we've beaten this sufficiently to death, so I'll drop it now.Art At 01:49 PM 11/2/98 EST, you wrote:Bix Bidiker or however you spell it.Chris Lucker from FlyTyr@southshore.com Mon Nov 2 16:30:32 1998 natco.southshore.com(8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA01794 for ;Mon, 2 Nov 1998 16:31:48-0600 Subject: Re: Perfectionist at work I built all the ribs for the wings on my airplane on the kitchen table. Istill have the same wife too. I don't think she would put up with bambooshavings. I will find out more about this when I start tracking shavingsinto the house.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com dickfuhrman@rheemote.com wrote: Dennis,Don't I remember you saying that your not married? If I'm right, that'swhy you can get away with that. I know guys that have rebuilt theirtruck or car engines in the living room or on the dining room table whenthey were single. When you get married forget it. The living spacebelongs to SWMBO.Dick Fuhrnandickay@alltel.net from Rodsofcane@aol.com Mon Nov 2 16:43:08 1998 Subject: Re: Really really big fish Richard Did not mean any thing by that comment, just personally think guidesshould dojust that, I to hired a guide and he fished. Really ticked me off, just mythoughts. Sorry if I offended you. Kent K. Anderson from rcurry@top.monad.net Mon Nov 2 16:55:44 1998 Subject: Re: Really really big fish Richard,Try Chris Bogart's "Big Dog" stick.Best regards,Reed from jkallo@midwest.net Mon Nov 2 16:59:24 1998 Subject: Re: Spar Varnish Mentioned before that I used to use Val Spar, but I just can't find thatanymore. Fritz, I don't what sort of stores you have access to, but my local Lowe's sells aline of ValSpar stuff. If memory served me right they sold both matte andgloss "Poly-U Spar Varnish." I always though spar varnish (the type not thebrand) was traditionally tung based--does poly-u varnish count as spar? Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from CALucker@aol.com Mon Nov 2 17:02:34 1998 Subject: Re: Spar Varnish In a message dated 11/2/98 2:03:40 PM Pacific Standard Time,fritzwiese@webtv.net writes: copal carnish, use copal from the art store. Same with casein varnish. Youmay blend your own varnishes as well. The formulas are available. Aswithmost anything concerning rod-building, do some primary research and youwillobtain the correct formulas. Stick with secondary research and you willprobably get nonsense. If you want some real varnish right now, try Spitani from Italy. Get it atfine boat supply stores.Chris Lucker from rcurry@top.monad.net Mon Nov 2 17:09:39 1998 Subject: Re: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight SalarFly@aol.com wrote:when casting. My feeling is that stiffer "faster" rods will beperceived as being heavier than slower rods. Darryl,I've found that slower action rods tend to feel a bit heavier thatfaster action; whereas in actual weight they are less. I attribute thisto the "meatier" butts and finer tips of the fast action rod. Of course,we may be working with different definitions of "fast" and "slow". WhenI say "slow" it's spelled sllllllllllloooooooooooow; which to me meansan old wet-fly action. If you look in old rod catalogues, the makerswould often list the rod weights. Wet- fly rods usually weighed .5 - 1.0oz less than dry-fly rods. But the wet-fly rods had more wood in thetip, and a very straight taper. (Gross generalisation, beware!!)Best regards,Reed from rcurry@top.monad.net Mon Nov 2 17:11:47 1998 Subject: Re: When is a Pflugeger not a Pflugeger? john channer wrote:Reed;What's FRP????John John,Fiber-Reinforced Plastic (FRP) is the catch-all term for fiberglassandgraphite rods (and canoes, boats, etc.).Best regards,Reed from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Nov 2 17:27:07 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Really really big fish I was on the Dowagiac Creek in Michigan Sunday using my 8 wght HeddonPremierand took many Kings up to 20# a few browns including one 6# and a fewSilversup to 8#. This was my fathers rod and it has never been used beforeyesterday. Still had the plastic on the handle. Traded my older brother a7.5 ft orvis graphite rod for it. The rod performed beautifully with allfish.Bret from dellc@nextdim.com Mon Nov 2 17:49:43 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A1C49D401AA; Mon, 02 Nov 1998 15:35:32 PDT Subject: Re: Re: Really really big fish Does my heart good to see somebody use a rod that was made to fish withevenif other people will say that you have detracted from the collectability ofit.Dell Coppock-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Really really big fish I was on the Dowagiac Creek in Michigan Sunday using my 8 wght HeddonPremierand took many Kings up to 20# a few browns including one 6# and a fewSilversup to 8#. This was my fathers rod and it has never been used beforeyesterday. Still had the plastic on the handle. Traded my older brother a7.5 ft orvis graphite rod for it. The rod performed beautifully with allfish.Bret from channer@hubwest.com Mon Nov 2 18:01:15 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A82835D0076; Mon, 02 Nov 1998 17:02:48 MDT Subject: RE: Perfectionist at work At 03:58 PM 11/2/98 -0500, you wrote:Hey John, I'm working on my coffee table in my living room! How's that for acomplex!!?? At least I can listen to some good music while I plane! Dennis -----Original Message-----From: john channer [SMTP:channer@hubwest.com]Sent: Monday, November 02, 1998 9:00 AM Subject: Re: Perfectionist at work Will you guys please stop it!!! You're making me feel under-equipped,nowIwill not only have a complex, but I'll proably go out and spend themortgage payment on an addition to the shop and a new work bench. Youwantthat on yourconcience's?John Dennis;Are you single, or do you have a very understanding SWMBO? My deepestsympathy, to you and all the rest of us make-do artists out there.John from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Nov 2 18:02:02 1998 Subject: Re: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight I've found that slower action rods tend to feel a bit heavier thatfaster action; whereas in actual weight they are less. A stiff rod (faster) has more of the rod that has to be reversedin the same unit of time during a switch from backcast to forecast and vice versa. More mass changing direction gives a perceivedfeeling of more weight. Darryl from channer@hubwest.com Mon Nov 2 18:04:53 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A903826007A; Mon, 02 Nov 1998 17:06:27 MDT Subject: Re: When is a Pflugeger not a Pflugeger? At 06:13 PM 11/2/98 -0500, you wrote:john channer wrote:Reed;What's FRP????John John,Fiber-Reinforced Plastic (FRP) is the catch-all term for fiberglassandgraphite rods (and canoes, boats, etc.).Best regards,Reed Reed;Thanks for the info, I hate to feel left out. I would probably have figuredit out for myself, in about 40 years. John from sats@gte.net Mon Nov 2 18:29:46 1998 Subject: Re: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight I think it would be interesting to do a weight distrubution graphalong with a stress curve to see if the way the weight isdistributed has anything to do with the perception of weightwhen casting. My feeling is that stiffer "faster" rods will be perceived as being heavier than slower rods. You bet it does. And I'll agree with you on this, but. The but being, I'm beginning to think that an entire taper can be modifiedtocast fast or slow. This is real hard to put into words but easy to draw. If you have a pair of nutcrackers, the kind that are attached on one end,thinkof a taper as attached on the tip end. Now think of increasing ordecreasesthe distance at the butt. Everything in between hinges with thatmovement. How would that affect a taper? Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from maxs@geocities.co.jp Mon Nov 2 19:15:29 1998 geocities.co.jp(8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id KAA27268 for; Tue, 3Nov 1998 10:15:10 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight SalarFly@aol.com wrote: I think it would be interesting to do a weight distrubution graphalong with a stress curve to see if the way the weight isdistributed has anything to do with the perception of weightwhen casting. My feeling is that stiffer "faster" rods will beperceived as being heavier than slower rods. Darryl Hi Darryl, It is an interesting topic. To my understanding of stress curve, the weight of each 5"(1" in Hexrod)interval of the rod has already been distributed and aggregated intomoment (and multiplied by factor of 4). IMHO, the difference of the peception is nothing other thanmoment matter. The stress curve model (of Garrison and Wayne) does notconsider the bend while rod is being casted forward and backword. Itsassumption is that an entire rod is moving straight (to perpendiculardirection to a rod). Since slower rods tends to bend much while casting, the perceptionreceives the moment with less length of the rod (unbend portion). Onthe other hand, faster or (harder) rod tends to be rather straight whilecasting. It would make you feel more force of moment derived fromlonger distance (of a straight portion of the rod) multiplied withweight and acceleration. sections after a rod is completed? If you try to use logical (orhypothetical approximation) weight, it is the direct proportional figureof the dimension of the rod at each 5" point, which implies the taper. So, the perception of the rod action is related with the bend derivedfromthe taper, isn't it? Max-- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Nov 2 19:27:56 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Really really big fish Colectible shmolectible I came to fish Ieven fish an old Payne from saweiss@flash.net Mon Nov 2 19:30:54 1998 Subject: Re: forms question Hi allI'm about ready to get 3 planing forms done . before the machinist startsi would like to know if the interior or touching surfaces have to be milledor can they be merely de-burred. I'm asking this question because I don'tthey will actually ever touch except possibly at one end for somee tinyrod.BTW using CRS stockTIA Brian Sturrock Brian,They can actually touch at the butt end as I found out on a recent rod.The PHY midge put my forms right together at the butt end of the buttsection. The certainly can also come together at the tip end when going fora 2- or 3-wt taper.Steve from saweiss@flash.net Mon Nov 2 19:38:39 1998 Subject: Re: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight -----Original Message----- Subject: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight Lately I have had the good fortune of being able to castand actually fish with quite a few different cane rods. Ihave noticed that some rods feel light when castingthem, although their actual weight is the same as otherrods. What prompted me to write this is I have four rods on extendedloan to me from BFRM. Two Phillipsons and two Grangers. Allof them are 8 1/2 feet long. The Phillipsons are the Pacemakerand the Pow'rPak't. One Granger is the Special and the otherone was refinished and the name was removed. The Phillipsons are close to 1/2 ounce heavier than the Grangers,but feel lighter when actually casting a line. They also feel lighterwhen they are assembled and I'm just whipping them back andforth in the air. They do feel heavier when just holding them still. I think it would be interesting to do a weight distrubution graphalong with a stress curve to see if the way the weight isdistributed has anything to do with the perception of weightwhen casting. My feeling is that stiffer "faster" rods will beperceived as being heavier than slower rods. Darryl Darryl,Do you find that the center of gravity or balance point of the rod, withoutreel attached, is a factor?Steve from fquinchat@locl.net Mon Nov 2 20:51:11 1998 corsair.locl.net (8.9.0/8.7.3) withESMTP id VAA06813 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 Subject: Re: Really really big fish Dickerson 8014 Guide, and excellent boat rod. Used it this summer on theYellowstone. Dennis Bertram ----------From: Rodsofcane@aol.com Subject: Re: Really really big fishDate: Monday, November 02, 1998 5:49 AM First off, what are you doing letting your guide fish! Guides are supposetoguide, not fish.What about a Dickerson - 8014 Guide My two centsKent K. Anderson from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Mon Nov 2 21:15:04 1998 (modemcable38.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.07.14.10.43)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Really really big fish Hey, Kent. Absolutely no offence taken. This was my first time hiring aguide and really don't know the ropes. I'd have to say though, that I didlearn a thing or two watching him fish. Also, having him fish helped keephis gaze a bit more on the water rather than on my occasional sloppybackcast making me less self-conscious. He was a gentleman and alwaysput meon the best water and fished the second rate stuff himself. Cheers Richard-----Original Message----- Rodsofcane@aol.com Subject: Re: Really really big fish RichardDid not mean any thing by that comment, just personally think guidesshoulddojust that, I to hired a guide and he fished. Really ticked me off, just mythoughts. Sorry if I offended you. Kent K. Anderson from jczimny@dol.net Mon Nov 2 21:26:44 1998 Subject: Re: Spar Varnish Yes. What matters most is the proportion of drying oil to resin. Spars runaround 35% resin. The rest is oils, reducers and small amounts ofadditives.John Z-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Spar Varnish Mentioned before that I used to use Val Spar, but I just can't find thatanymore. Fritz, I don't what sort of stores you have access to, but my local Lowe's sells aline of ValSpar stuff. If memory served me right they sold both matte andgloss "Poly-U Spar Varnish." I always though spar varnish (the type notthebrand) was traditionally tung based--does poly-u varnish count as spar? Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Nov 2 21:46:18 1998 Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:46:03 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Semi-hollow rods and tip-tops On Mon, 2 Nov 1998, CURT PETERSEN wrote:My second question relates to my planned third rod. I would like to build a PHY Texas General but the weight concerns me. Where could I get information on building semi-hollow rods? Is this a black art, practiced quietly, in the black of night, outside the view of others or has someone attempted to document the process? Best of all, has anyone built a Texas General semi-hollow and lived to speak ofit? Any help you can give will be greatly appreciated. The solid TG I made wasn't that heavy to cast and with a decent weighted reel the balace was such it was fine to cast which is the usual thing. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from jhewitt@cmn.net Mon Nov 2 21:49:47 1998 Subject: Re: Really really big fish Richard Nantel wrote: Hey, Kent. Absolutely no offence taken. This was my first time hiring aguide and really don't know the ropes. I'd have to say though, that I didlearn a thing or two watching him fish. Also, having him fish helped keephis gaze a bit more on the water rather than on my occasional sloppybackcast making me less self-conscious. He was a gentleman and alwaysput meon the best water and fished the second rate stuff himself. Cheers Richard-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Rodsofcane@aol.comSent: Monday, November 02, 1998 5:42 PM Subject: Re: Really really big fish RichardDid not mean any thing by that comment, just personally think guidesshoulddojust that, I to hired a guide and he fished. Really ticked me off, just mythoughts. Sorry if I offended you. Kent K. Anderson I'm a guide, I would never, ever, fish while with a client. Even whentheclient says, hey, I know what I'm doing, go ahead and fish, I justwanted to geton this private water. I will still spend my time evaluating the client'scast,or presentation, choice of flys, Etc. As far as I'm concerned a guide whofisheswhile working is a guide who is not doing their job.!! from mstevens@ptdprolog.net Mon Nov 2 21:58:38 1998 0000 Subject: Rod list Here is my current Rod and reel List Bamboo 1. Heddon Model 35 8 1/2' 2F 3/2 bag and unoriginal tube. Mid is about 1inch short. Rod has been redone with modern guides and rewrapped inwrongcolor(Red). This is an early rod with uplocking seat and Heddon writtenacross three flats. High quality rod ready to take fishing. EXRefinished.....$275 2. Heddon Model17 Black Beauty 8 1/2' 2F 3/2 Heddon bag. Nice rodneedingonly a plastic butt cap. VG+.....$215 3. Heddon Model 14 Thorobred 8 1/2" 2F 3/2 Original bag and tube. Overallin VG+ condition but has a small splinter on one tip needs to be repairedand wrapped. VG+.....$165 4. Montague Sunbeam 8 1/2' 3/2 Butt female and mid male ferrules havecracks. One tiptop is missing. Nice varnish and decal.....$45 5. Heddon 5' Baitcasting rod 2/1 Early rod from about 1910 1/8" corkrings,Heddon Dowagiac on seat. Agate guides. Chip out of butt cork. Varnish andwraps are fine.....$95 7. Gene Edwards 5 1/2' Bamboo baitcaster 1 piece, removable offsethandle,Marked "made by Gene Edwards" on rod shaft, Varnish could use somerubbingout, wrapped in red silk. VG+.....$125 9. Unmarked 5' bamboo baitcaster 2/1 This rod has full diamond wraps inredand yellow full length. In the 20's H-I offered a rod like this with asteel core. This may be one of them. Needs guides but the diamond wrap isin EX condition. Easy fix for a really nice display rod. VG+.....$55 10. Heddon 4 1/2' Bamboo baitcaster 2/1 Nice varnish but needs one guideand tip top. Early rod with sheet cork grip and long butt cap. Swelledbutt. .....$30 11. Heddon #850 4 1/2' bamboo baitcaster "Heddon" across three flats. Onepiece shaft with removable straight grip handle. This rod is in really nicecondition with some bag marks in the varnish. EX-.....$125 12. Unmarked quality 5' bamboo baitcaster. 2/1 Reel seat marked PAT May41920 Intermediate wraps, High quality ferrules with double bead welt.needs first guide, nice handle VG+.....$75 13. Unmarked quality 5' bamboo baitcaster. 2/1 Reel seat marked PAT May41920 Intermediate wraps, nice handle with long butt cap. Ready to fish orhang on the wall VG+.....$85 14. Shakespeare 5 1/2' bamboo baitcaster 2/1 original bag, NiceShakespearedecal on shaft with only a small chip out of it. Nice early 20's rod foryour display.VG+.....$95 15. Jay Harvey 5 1/2' Bamboo baitcaster 2/1 original bag. Seat markedwithPAT May 4 1920 and Jay Harvey engraved in seat. Close intermediatewrapsand ready to display. VG+.....$105 Some glass rods 16. Montague 8' brown glass flyrod 2/1 needs 2 guides rewrapped. Perfectdecal Red plastice seat. Nice old 50's rod. VG+.....$20 17. J.C. Higgins Solid glass baitcaster in original bag. Nice pistol griphandle with plastic insert insert grip marked J.C. Higgins. Probably early50's. EX- .....$25 18. H-I Crown Imperial 6 1/2' Fiberglass baitcaster 2 piece shaft withremovable handle. Rod is in new condition with perfect decals. RegisteredB-860 EX+.....$75 19. Heddon Pal 6205 Mark II 5 1/2' Fast tip baitcaster EX-.....$95 Reels 20. Heddon 125 Imperial flyreel from the 30's Round line guide. Gunmetalgrey finish. Shows use but still works fine. VG+.....$110 21. Pridex by Young Brothers Redditch England for Shakespeare. 3 1/2" dia.Minor edge wear EX-.....$75 22. Weber Futurist Bakelite flyreel Handle has small chips. EX-.....$20 23. Weberkraft Nylon No. 500 flyreel EX-.....$20 24. H-I Vernley Trout Reel, bakelite EX.....$20 25. Martin No. 48 automatic flyreel, green EX.....$20 Please email to hold. Shipping for one rod is $9.00. I can provide scans ofrods or reels if needed. Thanks, Mike Michael StevensRR 1 Box 307CEffort PA 18330 610 681 5670 mstevens@ptdprolog.net Stevens Sight & Tool CoMaker of fine sights for antique single shot target rifles Collector of Heddon and other bamboo flyrods and casting rods. HeddonRiverRunt Spooks and Coxe baitcasting reels. from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Mon Nov 2 23:52:41 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP Subject: Re: tip-tops boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0089_01BE06AB.FD1D9060" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0089_01BE06AB.FD1D9060 I've never seen (or heard of) it being done as Curt described (actually =wrapping onto the tube of the tip-top). Just out of curiosity, how =common is the method Curt described? George Bourke-----Original Message-----From: Golden Witch Date: Monday, November 02, 1998 11:46 AMSubject: Re: tip-tops Hi Curt, There is a simple solution to your tip wrap problems: don't =wrap over the tube of the tip top. Simply wrap up to the edge of the =tube. This wrap is mere decoration and does not serve to help retain =the tip top. Best, Russ Golden Witch Rods - "Tools For Natural Philosophy"Golden Witch Technologies, Inc. - "The Golden Age Is Now"gwr@seanet.comhttp://www.goldenwitch.com snip My first question is basic: is there a trick to wrapping =tip-tops? In my limited experiments this is the one wrap that =invariably looks odd. The step-down from tip-top to tip section creates =a "break-point" that I haven't yet conquered. Am I particularly inept =(be kind!), or is there a trick? Should I be tapering the base of the =tip-top somehow? How? snip ------=_NextPart_000_0089_01BE06AB.FD1D9060 I've never seen (or heard of) it = of curiosity, how common is the method Curt described? George Bourke -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= tip-topsHi Curt, top. Best, Russ Golden Witch "Tools For Natural Philosophy"Golden Witch = snipMy first question= experiments this is the one wrap that invariably looks = step-down from tip-top to tip section creates a = How?snip= ------=_NextPart_000_0089_01BE06AB.FD1D9060-- from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Mon Nov 2 23:56:00 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP Subject: Re: Semi-hollow rods and tip-tops I'd be REAL reluctant to feather the edge (="create a little knife") of thetip- top. There just isn't that much bamboo up there! George Bourke -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Semi-hollow rods and tip-tops Curt, I don't know that I would try to feather the edge of a tiptop unless youplan to wrap up over it. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Tue Nov 3 00:00:25 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP Subject: Re: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight Weren't the Phillipson rods impregnated while the Granger was varnished?That could account for the "heavier while holding it still" -- possibly theadded mass in the tip section would make it feel slower as well (I'venevertried the same taper varnished vs. impregnated). George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight Darryl: The Phillipsons are close to 1/2 ounce heavier than the Grangers,but feel lighter when actually casting a line. They also feel lighterwhen they are assembled and I'm just whipping them back andforth in the air. They do feel heavier when just holding them still. I'm curious about this since I was always under the impression that BillPhillipson used the exact same taper for the 8.5' Phillipson that he usedatGranger. Mike Sinclair has said the same thing. Am I wrong about this? Ifnot, what would account for the different in weight and feel? I can see I'm going to have to drag out my Granger Aristocrat and compareitto my Phillipson Power-Pakt. In any case, I think your original point about how a rod "feels" is aninteresting one that goes a long ways towards explaining the trendtowardultra-fast rods in graphite -- if you've ever watched someone buygraphiteat a fly shop, they simply go down the rack picking up rods (without reelorline). The ones that feel the lightest in their hand (the fastest tapers)are the ones that get set aside for casting in the parking lot, where theytry to throw 80 feet every cast. I'm still amazed that actual "fishability" bears so little on their finaldecision. Finally, as a lurker on this list who has yet to build a rod, I'd like tooffer my thanks to everyone who contributes so much. I almost believe Icando this, and this from one of the "un-handiest" guys of his generation...8-) Tight lines,TC -----Original Message-----From: SalarFly@aol.com Date: Monday, November 02, 1998 11:47 AMSubject: Perceived weight vs. Actual weight Lately I have had the good fortune of being able to castand actually fish with quite a few different cane rods. Ihave noticed that some rods feel light when castingthem, although their actual weight is the same as otherrods. What prompted me to write this is I have four rods on extendedloan to me from BFRM. Two Phillipsons and two Grangers. Allof them are 8 1/2 feet long. The Phillipsons are the Pacemakerand the Pow'rPak't. One Granger is the Special and the otherone was refinished and the name was removed. The Phillipsons are close to 1/2 ounce heavier than the Grangers,but feel lighter when actually casting a line. They also feel lighterwhen they are assembled and I'm just whipping them back andforth in the air. They do feel heavier when just holding them still. I think it would be interesting to do a weight distrubution graphalong with a stress curve to see if the way the weight isdistributed has anything to do with the perception of weightwhen casting. My feeling is that stiffer "faster" rods will beperceived as being heavier than slower rods. Darryl from destinycon@mindspring.com Tue Nov 3 07:40:30 1998 Subject: Re: Rod list At 10:58 PM 11/2/98 -0500, you wrote:Here is my current Rod and reel ListThanks, Mike Damn, I thought we just settled all this kind of sh*%Gary H. from Canerods@aol.com Tue Nov 3 08:08:20 1998 Subject: Re: Rod list Mike, Just got you rod list - I'll look it over more tonight. If you want to replace the butt cap to put on your #17 - I'll send you one. Don B. PS - How much would you offer an owner of a 7' T&T Midge? I've beencontacted wasselling at $1,000 on Martin Keane's list - so on the high end of the valuerange. from gwr@seanet.com Tue Nov 3 08:17:12 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA16065 for; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 Subject: Re: Rod list boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001E_01BE06F1.E8E417E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BE06F1.E8E417E0 boundary="----=_NextPart_001_001F_01BE06F1.E8E417E0" ------=_NextPart_001_001F_01BE06F1.E8E417E0 Sorry, that should have gone offlist. ------=_NextPart_001_001F_01BE06F1.E8E417E0 Sorry, that should have = offlist. ------=_NextPart_001_001F_01BE06F1.E8E417E0-- ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BE06F1.E8E417E0 name="Golden Witch.vcf" filename="Golden Witch.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDN:Gooding;John;R.FN:Golden WitchORG:Golden WitchTITLE:Rod Maker &c.TEL;WORK;VOICE:(425) 787- 6599TEL;PAGER;VOICE:noneTEL;WORK;FAX:noneADR;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A;Lynnwood;WA;98037;USALABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A=3D0D=3D0ALynnwood, WA =98037=3D0D=3D0AUSAURL:noneURL:http://www.goldenwitch.comEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:gwr@seanet.comEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BE06F1.E8E417E0-- from gwr@seanet.com Tue Nov 3 08:27:00 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA16049 for; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 Subject: Re: Rod list boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01BE06F1.CD0822A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BE06F1.CD0822A0 boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0013_01BE06F1.CD0822A0" ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01BE06F1.CD0822A0 Hi Mike, Please sign me up for #10. If you've still got it, let me know & =I'll get a check out to you shortly. Thanks, Russ Golden Witch Rods - "Tools For Natural Philosophy"Golden Witch Technologies, Inc. - "The Golden Age Is Now"gwr@seanet.comhttp://www.goldenwitch.com -----Original Message-----From: Michael Stevens Date: Monday, November 02, 1998 7:59 PMSubject: Rod list Here is my current Rod and reel List Bamboo 1. Heddon Model 35 8 1/2' 2F 3/2 bag and unoriginal tube. Mid is =about 1inch short. Rod has been redone with modern guides and rewrapped in =wrongcolor(Red). This is an early rod with uplocking seat and Heddon =writtenacross three flats. High quality rod ready to take fishing. EXRefinished.....$275 2. Heddon Model17 Black Beauty 8 1/2' 2F 3/2 Heddon bag. Nice rod =needingonly a plastic butt cap. VG+.....$215 3. Heddon Model 14 Thorobred 8 1/2" 2F 3/2 Original bag and tube. =Overallin VG+ condition but has a small splinter on one tip needs to be =repairedand wrapped. VG+.....$165 4. Montague Sunbeam 8 1/2' 3/2 Butt female and mid male ferrules =havecracks. One tiptop is missing. Nice varnish and decal.....$45 5. Heddon 5' Baitcasting rod 2/1 Early rod from about 1910 1/8" cork =rings,Heddon Dowagiac on seat. Agate guides. Chip out of butt cork. =Varnish andwraps are fine.....$95 7. Gene Edwards 5 1/2' Bamboo baitcaster 1 piece, removable offset =handle,Marked "made by Gene Edwards" on rod shaft, Varnish could use some =rubbingout, wrapped in red silk. VG+.....$125 9. Unmarked 5' bamboo baitcaster 2/1 This rod has full diamond wraps =in redand yellow full length. In the 20's H-I offered a rod like this with =asteel core. This may be one of them. Needs guides but the diamond =wrap isin EX condition. Easy fix for a really nice display rod. VG+.....$55 10. Heddon 4 1/2' Bamboo baitcaster 2/1 Nice varnish but needs one =guideand tip top. Early rod with sheet cork grip and long butt cap. =Swelledbutt. .....$30 11. Heddon #850 4 1/2' bamboo baitcaster "Heddon" across three =flats. Onepiece shaft with removable straight grip handle. This rod is in =really nicecondition with some bag marks in the varnish. EX-.....$125 12. Unmarked quality 5' bamboo baitcaster. 2/1 Reel seat marked PAT =May 41920 Intermediate wraps, High quality ferrules with double bead =welt.needs first guide, nice handle VG+.....$75 13. Unmarked quality 5' bamboo baitcaster. 2/1 Reel seat marked PAT =May 41920 Intermediate wraps, nice handle with long butt cap. Ready to =fish orhang on the wall VG+.....$85 14. Shakespeare 5 1/2' bamboo baitcaster 2/1 original bag, Nice =Shakespearedecal on shaft with only a small chip out of it. Nice early 20's rod =foryour display.VG+.....$95 15. Jay Harvey 5 1/2' Bamboo baitcaster 2/1 original bag. Seat =marked withPAT May 4 1920 and Jay Harvey engraved in seat. Close intermediate =wrapsand ready to display. VG+.....$105 Some glass rods 16. Montague 8' brown glass flyrod 2/1 needs 2 guides rewrapped. =Perfectdecal Red plastice seat. Nice old 50's rod. VG+.....$20 17. J.C. Higgins Solid glass baitcaster in original bag. Nice pistol =griphandle with plastic insert insert grip marked J.C. Higgins. Probably =early50's. EX- .....$25 18. H-I Crown Imperial 6 1/2' Fiberglass baitcaster 2 piece shaft =withremovable handle. Rod is in new condition with perfect decals. =RegisteredB-860 EX+.....$75 19. Heddon Pal 6205 Mark II 5 1/2' Fast tip baitcaster EX-.....$95 Reels 20. Heddon 125 Imperial flyreel from the 30's Round line guide. =Gunmetalgrey finish. Shows use but still works fine. VG+.....$110 21. Pridex by Young Brothers Redditch England for Shakespeare. 3 =1/2" dia.Minor edge wear EX-.....$75 22. Weber Futurist Bakelite flyreel Handle has small chips. =EX-.....$20 23. Weberkraft Nylon No. 500 flyreel EX-.....$20 24. H-I Vernley Trout Reel, bakelite EX.....$20 25. Martin No. 48 automatic flyreel, green EX.....$20 Please email to hold. Shipping for one rod is $9.00. I can provide =scans ofrods or reels if needed. Thanks, Mike Michael StevensRR 1 Box 307CEffort PA 18330 610 681 5670 mstevens@ptdprolog.net Stevens Sight & Tool CoMaker of fine sights for antique single shot target rifles Collector of Heddon and other bamboo flyrods and casting rods. =Heddon RiverRunt Spooks and Coxe baitcasting reels. ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01BE06F1.CD0822A0 Hi Mike, Please = you shortly. Thanks, Russ = "Tools For Natural Philosophy"Golden Witch -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= = and unoriginal tube. Mid is about 1inch short. Rod has been = modern guides and rewrapped in wrongcolor(Red). This is an early = with uplocking seat and Heddon writtenacross three flats. High = rod ready to take fishing. EXRefinished.....$2752. = needingonly a plastic butt cap. VG+.....$2153. Heddon = condition but has a small splinter on one tip needs to be = female and mid male ferrules havecracks. One tiptop is missing. = varnish and decal.....$455. Heddon 5' Baitcasting rod 2/1 = from about 1910 1/8" cork rings,Heddon Dowagiac on seat. = fine.....$957. Gene Edwards 5 1/2' Bamboo baitcaster 1 = removable offset handle,Marked "made by Gene Edwards"= VG+.....$1259. Unmarked 5' bamboo baitcaster 2/1 This rod = diamond wraps in redand yellow full length. In the 20's H-I = rod like this with asteel core. This may be one of them. Needs = but the diamond wrap isin EX condition. Easy fix for a really = display rod. VG+.....$5510. Heddon 4 1/2' Bamboo baitcaster = varnish but needs one guideand tip top. Early rod with sheet = and long butt cap. Swelledbutt. .....$3011. Heddon #850 = bamboo baitcaster "Heddon" across three flats. = with removable straight grip handle. This rod is in really = with some bag marks in the varnish. EX-.....$12512. Unmarked = 5' bamboo baitcaster. 2/1 Reel seat marked PAT May 41920 = wraps, High quality ferrules with double bead welt.needs first = nice handle VG+.....$7513. Unmarked quality 5' bamboo = 2/1 Reel seat marked PAT May 41920 Intermediate wraps, nice = long butt cap. Ready to fish orhang on the wall = Shakespearedecal on shaft with only a small chip out of it. Nice = 20's rod foryour display.VG+.....$9515. Jay Harvey 5 = baitcaster 2/1 original bag. Seat marked withPAT May 4 1920 and = Harvey engraved in seat. Close intermediate wrapsand ready to = VG+.....$105Some glass rods16. Montague 8' brown = flyrod 2/1 needs 2 guides rewrapped. Perfectdecal Red plastice = baitcaster in original bag. Nice pistol griphandle with plastic = EX-.....$2518. H-I Crown Imperial 6 1/2' Fiberglass = piece shaft withremovable handle. Rod is in new condition with = decals. RegisteredB-860 EX+.....$7519. Heddon Pal 6205 = 1/2' Fast tip baitcaster EX-.....$95Reels20. Heddon = Imperial flyreel from the 30's Round line guide. Gunmetalgrey = Young Brothers Redditch England for Shakespeare. 3 1/2" = edge wear EX-.....$7522. Weber Futurist Bakelite flyreel = small chips. EX-.....$2023. Weberkraft Nylon No. 500 flyreel = EX.....$20Please email to hold. Shipping for one rod is = needed.Thanks,MikeMichael StevensRR 1= 5670mstevens@ptdprolog.netS= Sight & Tool CoMaker of fine sights for antique single shot = riflesCollector of Heddon and other bamboo flyrods and = reels. ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01BE06F1.CD0822A0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BE06F1.CD0822A0 name="Golden Witch.vcf" filename="Golden Witch.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDN:Gooding;John;R.FN:Golden WitchORG:Golden WitchTITLE:Rod Maker &c.TEL;WORK;VOICE:(425) 787- 6599TEL;PAGER;VOICE:noneTEL;WORK;FAX:none