repairing it vs. Building one?(I've seen the cost of new ones and until Ilearn to use one I cannot justify that expense!) Jonathan Funk Name: winmail.datPart 1.2 Type: unspecified type (application/octet- stream)Encoding: x-uuencode from amcsmith@nlis.net Fri Nov 13 14:56:33 1998 Subject: lathe I got my old rockwell lathe while working at a high school [construction]they had newer and better equipment cnc stuff and told me i could have itif i moved it about two years later they called and asked if i wantedanother onea small craftsmen the larger lathe knurls much better heck doeseverythingbetter but having two saves on set up time the rockwell is much betterqualitychris smith from cmj@post11.tele.dk Fri Nov 13 15:03:34 1998 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0100 Subject: Sv: Re: Saltwater TC,I repaired a butt section on an English rod that had a long splicedconnection that was taped with plastic electricians' tape-that's right- plasticelecticians' tape! It worked fine and the tape is easily replaced.Hank. Sharpe's, as far as I know, was the last factory to produce two-handed salmon rods for splicing during the seventies. They recommende using wetleatherstraps. These crimp when drying. Nobody said anything about what happened, when the straps gor wet during fishing. Electricians tape is thebestsolution, although not hte prettiest. regards Carsten Dania Flyrods from cmj@post11.tele.dk Fri Nov 13 15:03:37 1998 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0100 Subject: Sv: I'm new I'm new to fly fishing and I love it. I Live in Arkansas and I will befishing for trout most of the time. What is the greatest advantage of acanerod and how much should I expect to spend on purchasing a used one andrepairing it vs. Building one?(I've seen the cost of new ones and until Ilearn to use one I cannot justify that expense!) Jonathan Funk Hi Jonathan Beg, borrow or steal a cane rod. Go fishing. If You don't feel the difference,forget it and keep on using plastic rods. Dont take offence, but I honestly dont think the difference between caneandcarbon fiber can be described in words. It has to be experienced. If Youdontappriciate the cane, stick to to carbon. Its is cheaper, readyly availableand youcan have any colour you like. Most of the members on this list, I presume, started out fishing carbon.Somehowwe tried a cane rod and got hooked. Its the feeling. Try it, but beware - itsanaddiction. regards Carsten Dania Flyrods from cmj@post11.tele.dk Fri Nov 13 15:03:49 1998 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0100 Subject: Sv: Hand Planed? I haven't seen much discussion about the Morgan Hand Milllately, perhaps I missed it while I was off list. The question I have is:Can a rod made with a Morgan Hand Mill still be called"Hand Planed"? My opinion is Yes.There is no powered motors involved, the Morgan Mill is just a hand plane set up to plane both sides of the strip at once. Darryl Sorry Darryl, but I do not agree. Hand planed means : Planed by Hand.Using a hand mill makes a rod milled. Whether the mill is driven bysteam, donkey or human being - its still a machine that does the actualwork. Hand mades are one-offs. Machined are multiple copies, all alike. I must admit I do not think the question is of any significance. Hand madeor machined - what counts is the quality of the rod. I do not subscribe tothe general opinion, that a hand planed rod is better than a milled. Are my rods hand-laquered when using a drip system? Certainly not.We all invent and use gadgets, whose only purposes are to do thingsa little easier or quicker or better - or a combination thereoff. regards, Carsten Dania Flyrods from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Nov 13 15:23:34 1998 Subject: Re: Hand Planed? In a message dated 11/13/98 11:53:26 AM Pacific Standard Time,sjstill@iquest.net writes: If you can afford that machine, you can call the rods you make with itanything you like I've sold 5 rods this year without even trying. People walked up to me and asked me to make them a rod. I've already got themoney to buy it.... Darryl from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri Nov 13 15:29:05 1998 (5.5.2407.0) Subject: RE: Hand Planed? rods made with the Morgan mill are hand planed and no two are alikeunlessyou make them alike. You still have to push a hand plane through thematerial the difference is instead of using a block plane with one bladeyouuse a custom made plane with two blades. you still have to set the taperateach 5" interval and measure as you go along. Having learned how to makerods with a block plane it certainly is nicer using Tom's plane. Instead ofadjusting the width of your planing form you adjust the height blades onTom's plane. ----------From: Carsten Jorgensen[SMTP:cmj@post11.tele.dk] Sent: Friday, November 13, 1998 1:05 PM Subject: Sv: Hand Planed? I haven't seen much discussion about the Morgan Hand Milllately, perhaps I missed it while I was off list. The question I have is:Can a rod made with a Morgan Hand Mill still be called"Hand Planed"? My opinion is Yes.There is no powered motors involved, the Morgan Mill is just a hand plane set up to plane both sides of the strip at once. Darryl Sorry Darryl, but I do not agree. Hand planed means : Planed by Hand.Using a hand mill makes a rod milled. Whether the mill is driven bysteam, donkey or human being - its still a machine that does the actualwork. Hand mades are one-offs. Machined are multiple copies, all alike. I must admit I do not think the question is of any significance. Handmadeor machined - what counts is the quality of the rod. I do not subscribe tothe general opinion, that a hand planed rod is better than a milled. Are my rods hand-laquered when using a drip system? Certainly not.We all invent and use gadgets, whose only purposes are to do thingsa little easier or quicker or better - or a combination thereoff. regards, Carsten Dania Flyrods from plantboy@siu.edu Fri Nov 13 15:37:27 1998 Subject: Re: Hand Planed....A lighter viewpoint *s* Carsten wrote:Sorry Darryl, but I do not agree. Hand planed means : Planed by Hand.Using a hand mill makes a rod milled. Whether the mill is driven bysteam, donkey or human being - its still a machine that does the actualwork. Isn't it great to have opposable thumbs! 8^) Nice to have the option to plane by hand or 'machine' mill isn't it. Eric Adams from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Nov 13 15:39:21 1998 Subject: Re: Sv: Hand Planed? In a message dated 11/13/98 1:12:58 PM Pacific Standard Time,cmj@post11.tele.dk writes: Using a hand mill makes a rod milled. Whether the mill is driven bysteam, donkey or human being - its still a machine that does the actualwork. Have you seen the Morgan Hand Mill? It has two carbide"blades" set at 60 degrees. They are actually triangular inshape, but only one straight edge side is used at a time. You have to push a hand piece over the strip much the same as a regular plane, only it cuts both sides at once There is no rotating blade, no "milling" action involved. Perhaps he shouldhave called it the Morgan Dual Action Planing Machine. P. S.Just so that there is no misunderstanding like the last time,no flames intended, and no flame inferred from your post. Darryl from jkallo@midwest.net Fri Nov 13 15:57:09 1998 Subject: Re: Hand Planed? Hey, making distinctions: this is my forte. Perhaps the greatestcontribution of the American Pragmatist philosophers was there constantreturn to the claim that most disputes, philosophical and otherwise,shouldbe trotted out in terms of concrete consequences rather than remaining intheoretical discourse which tends to go nowhere the long way (kinda likethat sentence..whew). If it don't make a difference, then there ain't nodifference. In this case I think that would apply like this: what we areafter is good cane rods--you fill in what counts concretely as "good". Ifthe mill and a stanley 9 1/2 at the end of my arm can crank out a similarly"good" rod, then the discussion as to whether the rod is "hand-planed" iskinda like the one about where the fish live: in front of the rock orbehind it. The answer in the latter case is "both," and sitting aroundyakking about it only facilitates greater beer consumption: not betterfishing. 'Course drinking more beer isn't all that bad sometimes.Especially if its good Belgian White. Next week I'll do "The Pythagoreans and the 60* Angle." Joe At 12:39 PM 11/13/98 EST, you wrote: I haven't seen much discussion about the Morgan Hand Milllately, perhaps I missed it while I was off list. The question I have is:Can a rod made with a Morgan Hand Mill still be called"Hand Planed"? My opinion is Yes.There is no powered motors involved, the Morgan Mill is just a hand plane set up to plane both sides of the strip at once. Darryl Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from sshorb@ozip.net Fri Nov 13 16:08:37 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-55785U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:09:05 -0600 Subject: Re: Sv: Hand Planed? The basic differences between the Morgan hand mill and a plane is thatthe hand mill uses two blades to cut and, because the cutters are heldin place at a preset location (angle), it cuts a very accurate 60* whilethe plane uses one blade to cut and the 60* is affected by the skill ofthe user in cutting each side. Each is powered by the user. So we get toa question of semantics, we all use tools of varying sophistication. I'msure everyone tries to produce the "perfect angle/ taper" and uses thosetools felt to produce the best results. I feel that a machine made itemhas little or no work done to it by a human operator other thantransortation to various machines. Some operations may depend on morehuman effort than others, but I think the end product can be called"hand xxxxxx" as long as the major portion of the construction is theresult of the makers personnal knowledge, skill, and ability. I feelthat all of the rod makers, as represented by this list, are buildinghandcrafted rods, regardless of the tools being used.My .02 centsSkip from sjstill@iquest.net Fri Nov 13 16:16:32 1998 0000 (209.43.49.125) Subject: Making drive belts Hi All, Was sitting here thinking about drive belts for the binder. Has anyone evermade one out of old fly line? I have a section of level line just hangingaround. If I 'melted' the ends with acetone and then glued the coretogetherand slipped a piece of shrink tube over the splice, would that give a fairlynon bumpy ride thru the binder? Not near to that point yet :-(, but always thinking (much to my wife'sdismay!) Steve from bills@nwlink.com Fri Nov 13 16:18:04 1998 Subject: Re: Lathes RE: CARBATECH LATHE Rob is right, nice little lathe for seating ferrules and turning handles.One problem; the Carbatech was taken off the market about 6 months ago.Apparently they had too many problems with the variable speed model andtookit (as well as the AC belt drive model) off the market. I had to buy a democarbatech at a woodworking store. Bill Strelke-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Lathes So long as you need a lathe only for handles, ferrule mounting andreelseatinserts, the little carbatech (sp?) wood >Rob Hoffhines from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Nov 13 16:24:13 1998 Subject: Re: Sv: I'm new Carsten,Yes most of us probably did start out with glass or graphite but some ofuswere fortunate enough to have started with cane and fell in love from thebeginning. I was one of these lucky guys and have taken much abuse thrutheyears for sticking with cane.BretI never even had graphite until orvis gave me one to have and use, tridentseries. from LambersonW@missouri.edu Fri Nov 13 16:31:36 1998 (5.5.2232.9) Subject: RE: Hand Planed? Imagine for the moment a device in which a wood plane rides on a raildownthe standard adjustable width planing form. The plane removes the topsurface of the bamboo strip. The strip is rotated to alternately expose thetwo pith sides for planing. Are rods built with such a device as I havedescribed hand planed? The craftsman is still setting the taper byadjusting screws at each station. There is no template involved. He stillpowers each pass of the plane which slices a shaving from the bamboo. Hestill measures the strip to determine when it has reached the criticaldimensions for his taper. The difference is that he is no longer using aplane that is free to be moved in any direction, because it is now attachedto the rail. The device might be expected to give greater repeatability ofstrips, and could be used to generate a large number of strips which couldthen be glued into sections. This device would share many characteristicsof the Morgan Hand Mill. The Morgan Mill in addition permits both pithsides of the bamboo strip to be scraped away at once. Both methods retainmany of the characteristics hand planing, and I would think of rods fromeach as being hand planed. However, I would be somewhat reluctant tocallthem hand planed because some of the skills required to produce a qualityrod from free-handing the plane are not required from use of these type ofdevices. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, November 13, 1998 3:06 PM Subject: Sv: Hand Planed? I haven't seen much discussion about the Morgan Hand Milllately, perhaps I missed it while I was off list. The question I have is:Can a rod made with a Morgan Hand Mill still be called"Hand Planed"? My opinion is Yes.There is no powered motors involved, the Morgan Mill isjust a hand plane set up to plane both sides of the strip atonce. Darryl Sorry Darryl, but I do not agree. Hand planed means : Planed Using a hand mill makes a rod milled. Whether the mill isdriven bysteam, donkey or human being - its still a machine that doesthe actualwork. Hand mades are one-offs. Machined are multiple copies, allalike. I must admit I do not think the question is of anysignificance. Hand madeor machined - what counts is the quality of the rod. I donot subscribe tothe general opinion, that a hand planed rod is better than amilled. Are my rods hand-laquered when using a drip system?Certainly not.We all invent and use gadgets, whose only purposes are to dothingsa little easier or quicker or better - or a combinationthereoff. regards, Carsten Dania Flyrods from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Nov 13 16:32:13 1998 Subject: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine Just got off the phone with Mark at BBFR Magazine and he said themagazine isoff the presses and should be in our hot little hands soon. He also said thenext one should not be too far behind like sometime in December. Guys andgals I don't know about you but I think this is good news and hopefullythingsare getting straightened out for Mark and BBFR. If any of you have articlesto send in I would be getting them to Mark soon so he has material to keepgoing. Guys it is up to us to keep this afloat as no articles no mag.Bret from dellc@nextdim.com Fri Nov 13 16:37:58 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A16A86D20088; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 14:23:38 PDT Subject: Re: Making drive belts I tried that when I first started building, now I use 30 lb. or 50 lb.Courtland braided running line with double tucked ends.Dell Coppock,"IN THE GREAT NORTHWEST"http://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail flyfisher@nextdim.com- ----Original Message----- Subject: Making drive belts Hi All, Was sitting here thinking about drive belts for the binder. Has anyoneevermade one out of old fly line? I have a section of level line just hangingaround. If I 'melted' the ends with acetone and then glued the coretogetherand slipped a piece of shrink tube over the splice, would that give afairlynon bumpy ride thru the binder? Not near to that point yet :-(, but always thinking (much to my wife'sdismay!) Steve from dellc@nextdim.com Fri Nov 13 16:45:15 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A32BE250148; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 14:31:07 PDT Subject: Re: Hand Planed? What about rods planed on a 2' v-groove black as opposed to adjustableplaning form. -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Hand Planed? Imagine for the moment a device in which a wood plane rides on a raildownthe standard adjustable width planing form. The plane removes the topsurface of the bamboo strip. The strip is rotated to alternately expose thetwo pith sides for planing. Are rods built with such a device as I havedescribed hand planed? The craftsman is still setting the taper byadjusting screws at each station. There is no template involved. He stillpowers each pass of the plane which slices a shaving from the bamboo. Hestill measures the strip to determine when it has reached the criticaldimensions for his taper. The difference is that he is no longer using aplane that is free to be moved in any direction, because it is now attachedto the rail. The device might be expected to give greater repeatability ofstrips, and could be used to generate a large number of strips which couldthen be glued into sections. This device would share many characteristicsof the Morgan Hand Mill. The Morgan Mill in addition permits both pithsides of the bamboo strip to be scraped away at once. Both methods retainmany of the characteristics hand planing, and I would think of rods fromeach as being hand planed. However, I would be somewhat reluctant tocallthem hand planed because some of the skills required to produce a qualityrod from free-handing the plane are not required from use of these type ofdevices. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Subject: Sv: Hand Planed? I haven't seen much discussion about the Morgan Hand Milllately, perhaps I missed it while I was off list. The question I have is:Can a rod made with a Morgan Hand Mill still be called"Hand Planed"? My opinion is Yes.There is no powered motors involved, the Morgan Mill isjusta hand plane set up to plane both sides of the strip atonce. Darryl Sorry Darryl, but I do not agree. Hand planed means : Planed Using a hand mill makes a rod milled. Whether the mill isdriven bysteam, donkey or human being - its still a machine that doesthe actualwork. Hand mades are one-offs. Machined are multiple copies, allalike. I must admit I do not think the question is of anysignificance. Hand madeor machined - what counts is the quality of the rod. I donot subscribe tothe general opinion, that a hand planed rod is better than amilled. Are my rods hand-laquered when using a drip system?Certainly not.We all invent and use gadgets, whose only purposes are to dothingsa little easier or quicker or better - or a combinationthereoff. regards, Carsten Dania Flyrods from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Nov 13 16:52:11 1998 Subject: Re: Hand Planed? In a message dated 11/13/98 2:03:26 PM Pacific Standard Time,jkallo@midwest.net writes: If it don't make a difference, then there ain't no difference. The difference will be in the perception of the rod. I would much rather have a rod hand planed by ______ (fill in the blank -Dickerson, Garrison, Leonard, etc) rather than a rod cranked out craftsman took some extra time making it, and any potential problems were seen and corrected. At least that's what I do when I make a rod. But, to tell you the truth any spline made in my shopwould have to be good, or I wouldn't put it in a rod. No matter howit was made. Hey, you guys were complaining about it being too quieton this list weren't you? Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Nov 13 17:11:27 1998 Subject: Re: Hand Planed? In a message dated 11/13/98 2:03:26 PM Pacific Standard Time,jkallo@midwest.net writes: Next week I'll do "The Pythagoreans and the 60* Angle." What about 61 1/2 degrees vs 60 degrees? Darryl from anglport@con2.com Fri Nov 13 17:29:39 1998 Subject: Re: First impressions Hey, let's not forget that famous "World's Best Authority on Everything",George Leonard Herter!Art At 06:57 AM 11/13/98, you wrote:Mauro, Cane knowledge is accumulative knowledge - each book seems to addsomethingto the one previous. I started with Garrison and Barnes books. Both servedwell. Got Wayne C's book and was pleased - similarly got Howell's bookandagain learned some new things. You don't need them all but for the guywhomight want to make his own forms either Wayne's or Jack's book willserveas a start point. Beforwarned though, that isn't the end of the books we'llsee or you'll buy. Some might be retreads and others offer newinformation. Good luck with your rods, Don At 20:57 12/11/98 -0800, you wrote:What is your advice regarding books for somebody who's just starting?I'mgetting the first culms next week hopefully. I was planning to startfollowing either Garrison or Cattenach. Thanks,Mauro. IMHO if you are just starting *don't* read Garrison. Tony from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Fri Nov 13 18:12:37 1998 ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: rod design from the physicist point of view, the fly rod is a column;anchored on one end and acted upon at the other end (alsothroughout it's length.) Describing the action of a rigidcolumn is a classic engineering problem for freshmenengineers and physicists. A flexible column is difficultand tedious to describe mathematically and a uniform taperedflexible column is a nightmare! Add variations such asparabolic characteristics, and well, you get the idea. With this said, it is still desirable to predict, as closelyas possible, the performance of the rod before it is built.Hence Hexrod and other rod design methods. However, thereis something amiss; for me at least! All of my scientifictraining and experience tell me that the best rod for me canbe described by a set of mathematical expressions thatgraph smooth curves. In fact, since we vary from personto person, each has his own "ideal" curves. My problem isthis. When I look through all the taper archives, I find no"smooth" curves! Am I missing something? Some "parabolic" tapers are fairlysmooth but the best looks like it had been designed, madeand then measured and the results recorded with all theerrors of construction and measuring included. In othersthere are variations that can only be intentional. So Igotta ask. How much of this is science and how much is"black magic"? My physics training tells me that for every rod with"hinges" to give it special properties, there is a "stick"described by a set of smooth curves that exactly duplicatethe characteristics of that rod. So am I missingsomething? Do you guys know something I don't? Is thisgoing right over my head? Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from cmj@post11.tele.dk Fri Nov 13 18:26:13 1998 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0100 Subject: thinning epoxy Does anyone knows how to thin epoxy?Dont have much expirience working with the stuff,so advice would be welcome. regards, Carsten Jorgensen Dania Flyrodsdania.flyrods@iname.com from CALucker@aol.com Fri Nov 13 19:08:27 1998 Subject: Re: rod design In a message dated 11/13/98 4:19:01 PM Pacific Standard Time,k5vkq@ix.netcom.com writes: EC Powell, among others, made some smooth curves as well as straighttapers. Many other tapers that are smooth, or even straight, don't translate thatwaywhen someone mic's a finished rod. This list has hashed over thenumerousfactors that make glued-up sticks mic out in an unintended fashion.Chris Lucker from jkallo@midwest.net Fri Nov 13 19:10:07 1998 Subject: Re: Hand Planed? At 06:10 PM 11/13/98 EST, you wrote:In a message dated 11/13/98 2:03:26 PM Pacific Standard Time,jkallo@midwest.net writes: Next week I'll do "The Pythagoreans and the 60* Angle." What about 61 1/2 degrees vs 60 degrees? Darryl No, no, no. See there is no harmony in 61 1/2 degrees. 60*, now there isone heck of an angle. I think the Pythagoras would have held the cane rodmaker to be some sort of mystic "seeker." Not just the puruit of perfectionin physical objects but objects that contain such a harmoniousgeometricalfigure. I was, though, joking around. There is a serious difference between a rodmade with the mill vs. a plane in my hand: the strips produced using themill would probably have lots better angles. Frivolity took over as I am soestatic that I will be swinging my first cane rod over some largishBrownsfirst thing tommorrow morning. Its a curious fact that often email meanttobe the least serious ends up being abrasive. Sarcasm doesn't transmit wellin the printed word I suppose. Okay, I'll keep quiet for a little bit. Best,Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from CALucker@aol.com Fri Nov 13 19:21:05 1998 Subject: Re: Hand Planed? In a message dated 11/13/98 5:10:52 PM Pacific Standard Time,jkallo@midwest.net writes: Someone who states that you cannot cut excellent final strips with amillingmachine should redesign their milling machine/cutters. I'm not saying youcan't do good strips by hand, because you certainly can. But the taperflexibility of a power milling machine and the ability to duplicate stripsisexcellent. And let's not forget how much more fun it is to make mills thanitis to make rods.Chris Lucker from cmj@post11.tele.dk Fri Nov 13 19:29:43 1998 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0100 Subject: Hand Planed? A plane with an inbuilt 60 degrees angle?Would sure like to have a look at it. OK Darryl - I'll eat my own words. As describedin the various postings, a rod made this waywould be hand made.regards,Carsten from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Fri Nov 13 19:40:43 1998 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id OAA16895 for ;Sat, 14 Nov 1998 14:40:46+1300 Subject: Re: rod design Onis, Jack Howell has a really interesting discussion in his book regarding the"engineering " approach verses the "artistic" approach . Tony referred to itthe other day . He summed it up up by saying the engineer will look at agraph and set of calculations and say that by increasing the stress curveatpoint A by 2000 widgets the effect will be to make the rod flex a littlecloser to the tip and increase the tip speed by 250 half widgets persecond.The artist will say if he experiments by making the rod a bit fatter lowerdown then it should be a better rod for dry flies.( I am not even sure if myexample is right ) I think Howell came to the conclusion that either approach was acceptible,given the huge variation in bamboo and precision in making of a rod , andmost rod makers tended to use both approaches but have a bias towardsone orthe other. My approach at this point in time is simple and avoids the interlectualchallenge , I copy tapers of known charactistics. regards Iank "black magic"? My physics training tells me that for every rod with"hinges" to give it special properties, there is a "stick"described by a set of smooth curves that exactly duplicatethe characteristics of that rod. So am I missingsomething? Do you guys know something I don't? Is thisgoing right over my head? Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Nov 13 20:03:37 1998 Subject: Re: Lathe Question to Joe E. Jon,You're probably right. I guess I think everyone has ashop to work in. I never thought about guys or gals, workingin an apartment. I guess there is a place for those small lathes. Dave L. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Nov 13 20:11:18 1998 Sat, 14 Nov 1998 10:10:33 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: rod design The point Ian made below is what I was getting at and I don't think I'm just navel gazing when I wrote it because while there are certainly physicaly explained reasons that can be maped out and altered on the drawing board or computer (I can't escape the feeling WC's famous "Sir D" started as a Driggs this way, but I guess we'll never know. Both are classics) there is also the "artistic" approach. This to my mind is not necessarily just the ad hoc messing about with a taper but the fine tuning based upon impressions built up by making rods and casting them and understanding what's going on.Now, IMHO all the "artistic" approach is, is just grey matter doing what a computer program does quickly, so both approaches require knowelageand a feeling for a good taper.I must admit to being torn between the two schools of thought, but not in a confused way. Understanding the mechanics of a thing will always help define in your own mind what you are trying to achieve, conversely unless you have a feel for hands on design you can't computer design a good rod.I like both ideas equaly but tend to prefer to think of myself being slightly more on the side of "artist". What I really like about JH's attitude is do what ever you think is right.One thing's for sure. Any time I've tryed to re-design a rod I've come away feeling I've altered it but not really for the better which shows how far I've come in rod design so far, so I tend to stick to classics. I'm sure these guys were doing what I've been waffling about. One thing to remember is the bit of sage (if you'll excuse that 4 letter word) advise "never take some-ones home brewing advise 'tillyou've tried his beer". On Sat, 14 Nov 1998, Ian Kearney wrote: Onis, Jack Howell has a really interesting discussion in his book regarding the"engineering " approach verses the "artistic" approach . Tony referred toitthe other day . He summed it up up by saying the engineer will look at agraph and set of calculations and say that by increasing the stress curveatpoint A by 2000 widgets the effect will be to make the rod flex a littlecloser to the tip and increase the tip speed by 250 half widgets persecond.The artist will say if he experiments by making the rod a bit fatterlowerdown then it should be a better rod for dry flies.( I am not even sure ifmyexample is right ) I think Howell came to the conclusion that either approach wasacceptible ,given the huge variation in bamboo and precision in making of a rod , andmost rod makers tended to use both approaches but have a bias towardsone orthe other. My approach at this point in time is simple and avoids the interlectualchallenge , I copy tapers of known charactistics. regards Iank "black magic"? My physics training tells me that for every rod with"hinges" to give it special properties, there is a "stick"described by a set of smooth curves that exactly duplicatethe characteristics of that rod. So am I missingsomething? Do you guys know something I don't? Is thisgoing right over my head? Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Fri Nov 13 20:17:48 1998 ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: rod design Hi Chris. Thanks for the reply. Maybe "smooth" was not a good choice ofwords. In my math, a straight line is smooth. I can see(think I can see)the smoothness in many of the (Garrison for example) tapers posted in thearchive. If these are recorded from measurements from finished rods(Iassume many or most are), then the discontinuities are understandable.However there are several made by contemporary rodmakers and I wouldexpectthese to represent what the rodmaker intended. There are several postedonthe Rodmaker taper archive and others around the web that show ratherradical changes in dimensions and stress along the rod; for what purpose Ihaven't a clue. If I smooth the curve to get the underlying general shapeso that I can understand the overall performance, have I reallyaccomplished anything but pull the feathers off the chicken? Again thanks Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com EC Powell, among others, made some smooth curves as well as straighttapers. Many other tapers that are smooth, or even straight, don't translate thatwaywhen someone mic's a finished rod. This list has hashed over thenumerousfactors that make glued-up sticks mic out in an unintended fashion.Chris Lucker from sshorb@ozip.net Fri Nov 13 21:08:30 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-55785U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Fri, 13 Nov 1998 21:09:01 -0600 Subject: Weight on binder thread Wayne recommends 1 1/2 lbs total weight on the thread on the Garrisonstyle binder. What weight is used on each thread on theMilward/Smythewick style binder? Skip from channer@hubwest.com Fri Nov 13 21:34:50 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AABD6E50106; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 20:36:29 MST Subject: Re: Hand Planed? At 04:22 PM 11/13/98 EST, you wrote:In a message dated 11/13/98 11:53:26 AM Pacific Standard Time,sjstill@iquest.net writes: If you can afford that machine, you can call the rods you make with itanything you like I've sold 5 rods this year without even trying. People walked up to me and asked me to make them a rod. I've already got themoney to buy it.... Darryl Darryl;What's the dilema? Buy the thing(Iwould if I could afford it and will assoon as I can). Make beautiful, great casting rods with it and be confidentof making more than one that are at least close to casting the same. AsJohn Gierach said, I don't care if it is whittled with a jack knife, aslong as it casts well. John from Fallcreek9@aol.com Fri Nov 13 21:49:00 1998 Subject: Re: thinning epoxy In a message dated 11/13/98 6:31:50 PM Central Standard Time,cmj@post11.tele.dk writes: Carsten: The technical folks at Nyatex told me to use laquer thinner. I didand it worked. I mixed approx a half-pint of the epoxy, then thinnedsufficient to slosh around the inside of a copper dip tank to wet itthoroughly. After draining the Nyatex soup over night, the dip tank wasputinto the oven at approx 350d f for a few minutes and the film remaining inthetank kicked, proving it worked without (significant) degredation to theepoxy.The cured epoxy provides a barrier between the copper tube and thevarnish.Not sure if laquer thinner works with other epoxys. Best Regards,Richard from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Fri Nov 13 21:57:39 1998 ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: rod design I like that. Tony, Ian, thanks for the info. I got into this because Icouldn't buy what I wanted. I fish small warmwater streams (mostlyArkansas) and there are not rods designed for that type of fishing(or atleast my view of it). My goal is a good 7', 7wt. rod that handles like adry fly rod. After all, what is a popper but a real big dry fly.Apparently, unless I design it, and build it, I ain't gonna get it. So Ihad better understand at least some of what the masters did and are doingor I am just throwing rocks in the dark. Your example is close enough. And I think I understand what you aresaying. The real difference is that for some it's best to know how to dosomething and for others it's better to know why you do it. Bothapproaches are valid and produce results and matter not to anyone exceptthose doing the work(and some of us from the other side who have tofigureit out). I have to follow the engineering approach however. Unless I knowthe why of something, I feel I am working in the dark. I expect there is aparallel on the artistic side. After a lifetime of engineering I'velearned one thing. Unless I know why, I am going to get bit! Again,thanks to the both of you. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com One thing to remember is the bit of sage (if you'll excuse that 4 letter word) advise "never take some-ones home brewing advise 'tillyou've tried his beer". from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Fri Nov 13 22:06:35 1998 ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: thinning epoxy There is at least one "epoxy thinner" available in hardware and buildingsupplies. It's called Klenk's Epoxy Thinner" and it's made by ZynolyteProducts. It's made from a bunch of solvents including alcohol, acetone,naptha, benzene and a bunch of others. I've used it with everything fromDevcon to Shell Epon with good results. Acetone also thins most epoxiesbut I've never tested the results. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 10:48 PM 11/13/98 EST, you wrote:In a message dated 11/13/98 6:31:50 PM Central Standard Time,cmj@post11.tele.dk writes: Dont have much expirience working with the stuff,so advice would be welcome. Carsten: The technical folks at Nyatex told me to use laquer thinner. Ididand it worked. I mixed approx a half-pint of the epoxy, then thinnedsufficient to slosh around the inside of a copper dip tank to wet itthoroughly. After draining the Nyatex soup over night, the dip tank wasputinto the oven at approx 350d f for a few minutes and the film remaininginthetank kicked, proving it worked without (significant) degredation to theepoxy.The cured epoxy provides a barrier between the copper tube and thevarnish.Not sure if laquer thinner works with other epoxys. Best Regards,Richard from bacon@idt.net Fri Nov 13 22:42:50 1998 Subject: Re: First impressions Seth Steinzor wrote: Apologies to all the experienced pros on the list - this is really forall the newbies who, like me, hung back for months and months absorbinginformation and technqiues and fantasizing about that first culm. Entryinto this craft can be awfully intimidating. If you read Garrison, eventhe initial splitting sounds like a fantastically complicated operation,requiring special home-crafted "splitting knives" and complicatednumerating systems. Elsewhere there is talk of costly imported bamboofroes, etc. Well, I split my first culm this weekend. I did it usingan old meat cleaver we had lying around, a screwdriver, and my barehands. I used nothing but my hands to drive the split when I got downto the final strips. No c clamps, no special knives, no nothing.(Well, OK, I used the cleaver to START the split...) The big secret thatI discovered, that you don't read about in the books or technicalpostings, is what sensual fun this is. The cane makes a lovely zzzipsound as it comes apart, punctuated by crack! at the nodes. It has aclean, slightly sweet smell, and the enamel is slick and cool under yourfingers, making the pith feel soft and rough. You get to feel in yourhands what the word "power" means in "power fibres", because thesefibres keep the split running pretty much straight. It runs down itschannel pretty much by itself. Once you learn not to go too fast, it isthe easiest thing in the world to control the split so that it doesn'twander. For the most part, it doesn't seem to want to wander, held in towards which you want the split to go (that is, most likely, the thickone) and hold the other side as straight as you can and, in a fewinches, the split will move gradually back on center. Its probably presumptuous of me to offer advice at this stage of myapprenticeship - really the advice I have is, just go ahead and do it!i too have been extremely intimidated, so much so that i felt thatlessons are a necessity. however, i think you're right, just go aheadand try. get a good book, relax, how hard could it be? and if you ruina few feet of bamboo, well, nobody will be the worse for wear. however,it is very exciting, to think that a culm of bamboo will become a lovelyfishing rod to hand down to somebody who appreciates it. thank you....jean (bacon@idt.net) from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Nov 13 22:55:12 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Hand Planed? picking nits OK if you push it by hand whether it is of mill design or a simple plane itisstill hand made you still have to adjust both types of outfits. I dare youtotell Bob Summers his rods are not hand made just because he cuts them on amachine, he still binds by hand and makes all his components and glues byhandand so on. This is picking nits don't you think? AAAHHHH but it makes forgood input on the list. Thanks to all who put in their $.02 worth. If Icould afford it I would have a Morgan mill myself. Maybe if I sold offsomeof my rods AY.Bret from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri Nov 13 22:55:15 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: lathes I wasn't aware that Edelstaal was still in business. Is that the same asAmerican Edelstaal the 1960's & early 1970's supplier of Unimat &Maximatlathes before Emco-Maier? (I think you are an orphan parts-wise onEdelstaal and almost so on Emco-Maier. The Austrian Emco-Maier isstrictlymaking large CNC equipment now. Blue Ridge Machinery picked up thesmallerstuff, discontinuing most, and re-sourcing what they decided to keep tobeing manufactured in Asia.) George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: lathes What are the choices? Sherline is mentioned everywhere. A Sherlinelong-bed 4400 appears to cost in the neighborhood of $600+. I have notyetfound an outlet for the Edelstaal that I have been borrowing. Are thereany other choices? I opted for a wood turning lathe (since I don't do ferrules) for turningbamboo and reel seat inserts, and am extremely pleased with it (a JetMini-Lathe). I am certain others absolutely would not recommend woodturning lathes, as there IS a learning process to turning perfectcylinders, etc., and you can't do ferrules end caps and sliding bands, butboy is it fun!J. Snider. from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri Nov 13 22:57:45 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: First impressions Amazing! When I did a book search on the author "George Barnes", I didfinda book on building wooden boats. The topic seemed close enough that Iwondered if it was you as well. George W. Bourke -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: First impressions I certainly agree with Tony . After building a dozen or so rods over 12months I have got Waynes book , Jack Howells , and Best of PlanningForm.Ialso managed to find a copy of George Barnes book in the Library in NewZealand ( I bet that surprised you George if you are out there , it hadbeentaken out around 30 times over the last 20 years however I do not knowofany other rodmakers down here). Still here! And that's fun to know. Working on a rewite at themoment.Anotherbook on building small wooden boats made it to Australia as I hadcorrespondence from there years ago. Strange how books get around. George from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Nov 13 22:59:34 1998 Subject: Thinning epoxy List, isjust Methol ethyl ketone or in laymans terms lacquer thinner.bret from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri Nov 13 23:04:47 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Fwd: Lathe Question to Joe E. You could send it to me!!! I'd take good care of it until your locationstabilizes a bit. (It WOULD be a pain lugging around a 2300 LB BridgeportAND getting 3 phase power every 9 months -- I could save you thattrouble!And you'd be welcome to visit it on school breaks, too.) ;^) George Bourke PS--Make sure it has power table feed and a DRO -- wouldn't want to seeyouget cheated!-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Fwd: Lathe Question to Joe E. Hehe....the none months is the school year. Sept-May. I had agreat opportunity to pick up a Bridgeport Series II but what in theworld would I do with it? Take care,Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510http://www.munrorodco.com from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri Nov 13 23:08:45 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Mystery midnight Darryl, Was that cut into 6' lengths or the full 12'? How was it shipped?(Curious, my only order so far has been from Andy, full length, trucked to afriend w/a business to save a $40 residential surcharge. Trying to figureout my future options -- don't want to ask the friend to accept an ordervery often!) George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Mystery midnight In a message dated 11/13/98 3:53:38 AM Pacific Standard Time,maxs@geocities.co.jp writes: While I was working on polishing rods midnight some day, a sudden bignoise surprised me. It seemed that someone threw a big piece of stonetoward my window. In Southern California we sometimes have very dry winds thatblow off the inland desert. Brings the relative humidity to around10 per cent. We were having this weather condition when myfirst shipment of culms arrived from Demarest. The culms werepopping and crackling like you wouldn't believe. The deliveryman asked what was in the box. He thought something was alivein there. Some of the pops were so loud they sounded like asmall caliber handgun. I split my culms all the way down whenI first get them now. Darryl from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Nov 13 23:24:42 1998 Subject: Re: First impressions At 18:28 13/11/98 -0500, Art wrote:Hey, let's not forget that famous "World's Best Authority on Everything",George Leonard Herter!Art Art, I've got his book on fishing tackle manufacturing and it was about whatwasexpected. My first fly typing book was by Herter. Got me started and that'swhat was needed @ that point. Wished I had bought 2 more of his books -"How to live on $ 10.00/day" and "How to live with a bitch". The first one Don At 06:57 AM 11/13/98, you wrote:Mauro, Cane knowledge is accumulative knowledge - each book seems to addsomethingto the one previous. I started with Garrison and Barnes books. Bothservedwell. Got Wayne C's book and was pleased - similarly got Howell's bookandagain learned some new things. You don't need them all but for the guywhomight want to make his own forms either Wayne's or Jack's book willserveas a start point. Beforwarned though, that isn't the end of the bookswe'llsee or you'll buy. Some might be retreads and others offer newinformation. Good luck with your rods, Don At 20:57 12/11/98 -0800, you wrote:What is your advice regarding books for somebody who's just starting?I'mgetting the first culms next week hopefully. I was planning to startfollowing either Garrison or Cattenach. Thanks,Mauro. IMHO if you are just starting *don't* read Garrison. Tony from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri Nov 13 23:27:27 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Sv: Hand Planed? Uh, aren't we losing sight of the goal here? (To produce high-qualitybamboo rods.) All that is being discussed in a "hand planed" vs. "milled"vs. "laser cut" vs. "gnawed by rats with acute eyesight" of this nature isnot the relative merits of different methods, merely how to advertisethem.As to how you choose to advertise them, I doubt any attorney in thecountrywould be excited about suing a bamboo rodmaker for 33% of all he owns! (Noflame intended here...just trying gently guide things off of semanticsdiscussions.) George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Sv: Hand Planed? The basic differences between the Morgan hand mill and a plane is thatthe hand mill uses two blades to cut and, because the cutters are heldin place at a preset location (angle), it cuts a very accurate 60* whilethe plane uses one blade to cut and the 60* is affected by the skill ofthe user in cutting each side. Each is powered by the user. So we get toa question of semantics, we all use tools of varying sophistication. I'msure everyone tries to produce the "perfect angle/ taper" and uses thosetools felt to produce the best results. I feel that a machine made itemhas little or no work done to it by a human operator other thantransortation to various machines. Some operations may depend on morehuman effort than others, but I think the end product can be called"hand xxxxxx" as long as the major portion of the construction is theresult of the makers personnal knowledge, skill, and ability. I feelthat all of the rod makers, as represented by this list, are buildinghandcrafted rods, regardless of the tools being used.My .02 centsSkip from briansr@point-net.com Fri Nov 13 23:34:47 1998 0000 Subject: re:hand planed Hi DellIn your posting of 11/13/1749 You mentioned a rod planed on a 2'v grooveblackOK I hate to ask but what is a 2' whatever?BTW for yor Spey did you make your own ferrules?To Max you've explained a CRACK I heard in my garage the other night!Cheers Brian from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri Nov 13 23:49:58 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Hand Planed? I got a chuckle out of this (it made me envision a bamboo rod buildingepisode of the Woodwright's Shop -- he'd probably turn them out with anax!). George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Hand Planed? At 04:22 PM 11/13/98 EST, you wrote:In a message dated 11/13/98 11:53:26 AM Pacific Standard Time,sjstill@iquest.net writes: If you can afford that machine, you can call the rods you make with itanything you like I've sold 5 rods this year without even trying. People walked upto me and asked me to make them a rod. I've already got themoney to buy it.... Darryl Darryl;What's the dilema? Buy the thing(Iwould if I could afford it and will assoon as I can). Make beautiful, great casting rods with it and be confidentof making more than one that are at least close to casting the same. AsJohn Gierach said, I don't care if it is whittled with a jack knife, aslong as it casts well. John from saweiss@flash.net Sat Nov 14 00:11:10 1998 Subject: Re: rod design My physics training tells me that for every rod with"hinges" to give it special properties, there is a "stick"described by a set of smooth curves that exactly duplicatethe characteristics of that rod. So am I missingsomething? Do you guys know something I don't? Is thisgoing right over my head? Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com Onis,What if the measurements are made closer and closer together until thecurves appear smooth?Steve from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sat Nov 14 02:37:45 1998 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0100 Subject: Sv: Thinning epoxy -Thanks guys - knew I could rely on You.Shall visit the painters store this very day All these experiments are, to me, an importantpart of rodmaking regards Carsten from rmoon@ida.net Sat Nov 14 07:40:03 1998 Subject: Re: Hand Planed? George (I got a chuckle out of this (it made me envision a bamboo rod buildingepisode of the Woodwright's Shop -- he'd probably turn them out with anax!). Then there is a maker in Canada who whittles them with a hunting knife.I guess that too would be hand knifed Ralph from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat Nov 14 07:54:58 1998 Sat, 14 Nov 1998 21:54:23 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: rod design You may be from the scientific side of the fence, but there must be some of the artist in you to appreciate rods made of grass in the first place.Possibly try the Dickerson 7614 as a starting point?Tony On Fri, 13 Nov 1998, Onis Cogburn wrote: I like that. Tony, Ian, thanks for the info. I got into this because Icouldn't buy what I wanted. I fish small warmwater streams (mostlyArkansas) and there are not rods designed for that type of fishing(or atleast my view of it). My goal is a good 7', 7wt. rod that handles like adry fly rod. After all, what is a popper but a real big dry fly.Apparently, unless I design it, and build it, I ain't gonna get it. So Ihad better understand at least some of what the masters did and aredoingor I am just throwing rocks in the dark. Your example is close enough. And I think I understand what you aresaying. The real difference is that for some it's best to know how to dosomething and for others it's better to know why you do it. Bothapproaches are valid and produce results and matter not to anyone exceptthose doing the work(and some of us from the other side who have tofigureit out). I have to follow the engineering approach however. Unless Iknowthe why of something, I feel I am working in the dark. I expect there is aparallel on the artistic side. After a lifetime of engineering I'velearned one thing. Unless I know why, I am going to get bit! Again,thanks to the both of you. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com One thing to remember is the bit of sage (if you'll excuse that 4 letter word) advise "never take some-ones home brewing advise 'tillyou've tried his beer". /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat Nov 14 07:56:19 1998 Sat, 14 Nov 1998 21:55:58 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: First impressions inches, the split will move gradually back on center. Its probably presumptuous of me to offer advice at this stage of myapprenticeship - really the advice I have is, just go ahead and do it!i too have been extremely intimidated, so much so that i felt thatlessons are a necessity. however, i think you're right, just go aheadand try. get a good book, relax, how hard could it be? and if you ruina few feet of bamboo, well, nobody will be the worse for wear. however,it is very exciting, to think that a culm of bamboo will become a lovelyfishing rod to hand down to somebody who appreciates it. thank you....jean (bacon@idt.net) Chances are better than good you wont ruin anything and wind up with a good rod. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from rmoon@ida.net Sat Nov 14 07:57:47 1998 Subject: Re: First impressions 5CB2596D4EF0C87129A9B412" --------------5CB2596D4EF0C87129A9B412 Jean There is a broad line between being nursed (pardon the pun) intobuilding a bamboo rod and just jumping in and doing it. When I startedI had only one reference, George Leonard Herter's book on buildingbamboo rods. I blundered along for twenty years before I got my firstrod done. It was a mess in appearance, but it was a good fishing rod.Go Figure. On the other hand, I just finished only a few weeks agoteaching an absolute beginner in a class that lasted only about sixdays. He made a beautiful rod, and I am confident that he will only goon to build more rods better than his first. I think that he benefited from my lessons in learning a few of those little tricks that not evenmany on this list talk about that make rod building a little easier.True you will learn them through experience, but lessons will save sometime. Fancy gadgets however are not the answer, it is learning yourcraft.I have as of yesterday finished a marathon of planing. Three two tiprods. After all the years I have spent with a plane in my hand, I stillfound myself beginning to struggle and strain on some of the sections.Even now I still find myself forgetting some of the hardest learnedlessons (and one of the most basic: KEEP THY PLANE IRONS SHARP!!!!!)But I tell you that being reminded by pain teaches a sharper lesson thatthe admonitions of a mentor, no matter how good he is. Go do It and if you can latch on to a maker who is willing to help doso. If not don't sweat it. Ralph --------------5CB2596D4EF0C87129A9B412 Jean There is a broad line between being nursed (pardon the pun) intobuilding only one reference, George Leonard Herter's book on building bamboo On the other hand, I just finished only a few weeks ago teaching anabsolute beautifulrod, and I am confident that he will only go on to build more rods better a few of those little tricks that not even many on this list talk about however are not the answer, it is learning your craft. hand, I still found myself beginning to struggle and strain on some of hardest learned lessons (and one of the most basic: KEEP THY PLANE IRONS teaches a sharper lesson that the admonitions of a mentor, no matter howgood he is. Go do It and if you can latch on to a maker who is willing to help do Ralph --------------5CB2596D4EF0C87129A9B412-- from ljrp@penn.com Sat Nov 14 08:02:16 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrule Cement Receipe In Frazier's book there are two recipes for ferrule cement they have ameasurement called "drachm" White beeswax sliced, 1 drachm??? whatisa drachm??Dr. Steven A. Weiss wrote: My physics training tells me that for every rod with"hinges" to give it special properties, there is a "stick"described by a set of smooth curves that exactly duplicatethe characteristics of that rod. So am I missingsomething? Do you guys know something I don't? Is thisgoing right over my head? Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com Onis,What if the measurements are made closer and closer together until thecurves appear smooth?Steve from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Nov 14 08:12:58 1998 Subject: Re: Lathe Question to Joe E. Dave This is spacious for Jon - he used to work in his dorm room atcollege sharedwith a room mate! Chris On Fri, 13 Nov 1998 21:02:54 EST, LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: Jon,You're probably right. I guess I think everyone has ashop to work in. I never thought about guys or gals, workingin an apartment. I guess there is a place for those small lathes. Dave L. from Canerods@aol.com Sat Nov 14 08:19:55 1998 Subject: Re: Hand Planed? picking nits In a message dated 11/13/98 8:56:37 PM Pacific Standard Time,Grhghlndr@aol.com writes: OK if you push it by hand whether it is of mill design or a simple plane it isstill hand made you still have to adjust both types of outfits. I dare youtotell Bob Summers his rods are not hand made just because he cuts themon amachine, he still binds by hand and makes all his components and glues handand so on. This is picking nits don't you think? AAAHHHH but it makesforgood input on the list. Thanks to all who put in their $.02 worth. If Icould afford it I would have a Morgan mill myself. Maybe if I sold offsomeof my rods AY.Bret Bret, I agree. There's a lot of tools used in any rod construction - which onesareokay to use and which aren't okay and still call it hand-made is pushingtheedge. (no pun intended) Don Burns PS - Mail me a list of any deeply discounted rods. from sshorb@ozip.net Sat Nov 14 09:31:47 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-55785U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Sat, 14 Nov 1998 09:32:16 -0600 Subject: Re: Sv: Hand Planed? How do you train rats to do this and do you take it out of their wagesif they screw up? I'm new at this and can use all the help I can get.hehe Skip from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Nov 14 10:23:04 1998 Subject: Re: Weight on binder thread In a message dated 11/14/98 3:13:07 AM, you wrote: Skip - No offense to our British cousins, whom I admire, but I wish youguyswould stop trying to make an Englishman out of me. It's Smithwick. :- )I agree with Wayne in terms of setting binding tension. I do it by feel, justlike setting a drag, but think I am in the 1 1/2 - 2 lb range for a tip, a bitmore for the butt. from sshorb@ozip.net Sat Nov 14 11:01:21 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-55785U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Sat, 14 Nov 1998 11:01:51 -0600 Subject: Re: Weight on binder thread Sorry about that, knew it was going to be wrong just after I sent it,won't happen again. Are you using the same thread as Wayne or ordinarysewing thread? Thanks very much for the info. Skip from dellc@nextdim.com Sat Nov 14 11:02:40 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A443209A00AE; Sat, 14 Nov 1998 08:48:03 PDT Subject: Re: re:hand planed Brian, sorry for misspelling block. My first 4 rods were planed using ablock of wood 3" wide by 2" long with a series of 60 degree grooves ofincreasing depth from .020" to .340", each groove has a taper of .040 per 2'of distance. Doing it this way means lots of measuring for each strip. -----Original Message----- Subject: re:hand planed Hi DellIn your posting of 11/13/1749 You mentioned a rod planed on a 2'vgrooveblackOK I hate to ask but what is a 2' whatever?BTW for yor Spey did you make your own ferrules?To Max you've explained a CRACK I heard in my garage the other night!Cheers Brian from dellc@nextdim.com Sat Nov 14 11:05:14 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A4DE2791007C; Sat, 14 Nov 1998 08:50:38 PDT Subject: Re: re:hand planed The ferrules are cheapies, nickle plated brass from Dale Clemens.Dell-----Original Message----- Subject: re:hand planed Hi DellIn your posting of 11/13/1749 You mentioned a rod planed on a 2'vgrooveblackOK I hate to ask but what is a 2' whatever?BTW for yor Spey did you make your own ferrules?To Max you've explained a CRACK I heard in my garage the other night!Cheers Brian from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Nov 14 11:11:37 1998 Subject: Re: Hand Planed? In a message dated 11/13/98 5:10:52 PM Pacific Standard Time,jkallo@midwest.net writes: Its a curious fact that often email meant tobe the least serious ends up being abrasive. Sarcasm doesn't transmitwellin the printed word I suppose. Okay, I'll keep quiet for a little bit. I was kidding also. I took your post as non-serious and posted back ina non- serious manner. Always, always take my posts in the friendliestmanner you can imagine, because thats how they are given. Darryl from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sat Nov 14 11:12:16 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrule Cement Receipe In a message dated 11/14/98 8:08:50 AM Central Standard Time,ljrp@penn.comwrites: Steve: A dram, which = 27.344 grains advp = .0625 oz.RT from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sat Nov 14 11:12:40 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Sv: Hand Planed? Skip, I'm sorry...I consider this a proprietary trade secret. I hope youunderstand. (I could let you in on how to have beavers do the roughshaping, however.) Good luck,George Bourke -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Sv: Hand Planed? How do you train rats to do this and do you take it out of their wagesif they screw up? I'm new at this and can use all the help I can get.hehe Skip from briansr@point-net.com Sat Nov 14 11:15:14 1998 0000 Subject: Re: re:hand planed Thank's DellBrian-----Original Message----- Subject: re:hand planed The ferrules are cheapies, nickle plated brass from Dale Clemens.Dell-----Original Message-----From: Brian Sturrock Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 8:21 PMSubject: re:hand planed Hi DellIn your posting of 11/13/1749 You mentioned a rod planed on a 2'vgrooveblackOK I hate to ask but what is a 2' whatever?BTW for yor Spey did you make your own ferrules?To Max you've explained a CRACK I heard in my garage the other night!Cheers Brian from Canerods@aol.com Sat Nov 14 11:59:34 1998 Subject: Re: Lathe Question to Joe E. Also look at the Harbor Freight 7"x10" metal lathe for about $400. Don Burns from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Nov 14 12:07:58 1998 Subject: Re: Weight on binder thread In a message dated 11/14/98 5:03:45 PM, you wrote: I use a cotton suture thread that is no longer available. It's about thediameter of size E rodbuilding thread. If you use my single thread design,usesomething similar. Wayne's recommendation would be fine. I think BobMilwarduses lighter thread in his rig, but am not totally sure of that. from sshorb@ozip.net Sat Nov 14 12:15:44 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-55785U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Sat, 14 Nov 1998 12:16:14 -0600 Subject: Re: Sv: Hand Planed? George B I understand and thanks for the offer, I'll keep it in mind when I getfrustrated. Skip from sshorb@ozip.net Sat Nov 14 12:22:01 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-55785U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Sat, 14 Nov 1998 12:22:31 -0600 Subject: Re: Weight on binder thread Thanks for the help, it's got me going in the right direction now. I hadit way too loose. I made the Milward binder, didn't see yours untillater on in my research. Skip from Collins@uniserve.com Sat Nov 14 12:40:24 1998 Subject: Re: Making drive belts I have made two drive belts for my binder: 1) Out of a piece of 1/4" silcon rubber tubing. The kind that the modelairplane guys use to get fuel from the tank to the engine. I joined theends to gether by simply inserting a short (~1.5") piece of plastic in thetubing. This is quite cheap and is avaliable by the foot from most hobbystores. 2) Out of 1/4" Poly Cord belting from "Small Parts." You heat and melt theends of this belting to join the ends. The poly cord is very strong, quite smooth, does not stretch very much andreally quite stiff. A lot stiffer than you would think it would be. Thus,you have to put it on quite tight on your binder to keep it from slipping.But, it does make a very strong belt. The silicon rubber tubing on the other hand is very flexible, sticky andstretches a lot. The silicon rubber belt sticks to the binder wheels likebear poop to your shoe. Also, it is one heck of a lot cheaper. The difference between the two belts is in the way the load the binder.Thepoly cord requires a lot more force to turn in comparrison to the silicontubing. I ended up taking the poly cord belt off and went back to the cheap siliconrubber tubing belt. It's cheap, readily avaliable, works very well and isinstant to make. Doug from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Nov 14 13:00:49 1998 Subject: Re: Hand Planed? In a message dated 11/13/98 5:30:07 PM Pacific Standard Time,cmj@post11.tele.dk writes: A plane with an inbuilt 60 degrees angle?Would sure like to have a look at it. I put a couple pictures of the Morgan Hand Mill fromhis brochure up on my AOL web space. Point your browser at:http://members.aol.com/salarfly/index.htmand you will see them. Darryl from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sat Nov 14 14:36:10 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Sat,14Nov 1998 15:45:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Lathe Question to Joe E. Thanks Chris....There were only a few of you who saw those pictures....been trying to hide those little details. Customers used to call asking to stop by the shop....hehehe....sure...this is my bed...this is my bench on top of the bed, and this is the drill press on my desk next to the computer. On at , Unknown wrote: Dave This is spacious for Jon - he used to work in his dorm room at collegesharedwith a room mate! Chris On Fri, 13 Nov 1998 21:02:54 EST, LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: Jon,You're probably right. I guess I think everyone has ashop to work in. I never thought about guys or gals, workingin an apartment. I guess there is a place for those small lathes. Dave L. Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.munrorodco.com from ljrp@penn.com Sat Nov 14 15:45:09 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrule Cement Receipe Thanks RT from Dick Fogel Fallcreek9@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 11/14/98 8:08:50 AM Central Standard Time,ljrp@penn.comwrites: a drachm?? >> Steve: A dram, which = 27.344 grains advp = .0625 oz.RT from Canerods@aol.com Sat Nov 14 16:32:54 1998 Subject: Re: split seams In a message dated 11/12/98 9:20:05 AM Pacific Standard Time,Chris.Journigan@nau.edu writes: I recently recieved my first bamboo project. In the butt section of thisrodthere several splits from one to two inches long. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to pull these cracks back together. As I said I'm newatthis. The splits are all right at the nodes an don't seem to want to pullin. I don't know who made this rod, but "Wilson's Fly King", was written onit in white ink. White ink = Edwards or H-I. If low quality = H-I Just a rule of thumb, Don Burns from emiller257@dataflo.net Sat Nov 14 17:14:19 1998 wddataflo.dataflo.net(8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA16399 for ;Sat, 14 Nov 1998 17:21:34 Subject: Re: Hand Planed? SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 11/13/98 5:30:07 PM Pacific Standard Time,cmj@post11.tele.dk writes: A plane with an inbuilt 60 degrees angle?Would sure like to have a look at it. I put a couple pictures of the Morgan Hand Mill fromhis brochure up on my AOL web space. Point yourbrowser at:http://members.aol.com/salarfly/index.htmand you will see them. DarrylCool pics Darryl. Looks like thr mill uses carbide inserts toachieve the correct angles. Ingenious! Carbide like these are universally used in machining and are readily available.Thanks for publishing them. Ed M. from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sat Nov 14 17:26:27 1998 (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Lathe Question to Joe E. Jon, On a similar vein, when I started my own business years ago (sold it), Ihadto have an address to set up leases and the like. The city noticed thatbefore I even leased a site to conduct business and I had to get a businesslicense. Anyway, the fire department reviews business licenses and sentouta fire engine and crew (!!!) to perform a fire inspection. When theyknocked on the door, I politely showed them in and showed them thekitchendrawer that was my "business" at that point in time. They were cool aboutit and got a chuckle out of it...also they offered to do a complimentaryresidential safety inspection (which I took them up on). George Bourke-----Original Message----- Joe E. Thanks Chris....There were only a few of you who saw thosepictures....been trying to hide those little details. Customers usedto call asking to stop by the shop....hehehe....sure...this is mybed...this is my bench on top of the bed, and this is the drill presson my desk next to the computer. On at , Unknown wrote: Dave This is spacious for Jon - he used to work in his dorm room at collegesharedwith a room mate! Chris On Fri, 13 Nov 1998 21:02:54 EST, LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: Jon,You're probably right. I guess I think everyone has ashop to work in. I never thought about guys or gals, workingin an apartment. I guess there is a place for those smalllathes. Dave L. Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510http://www.munrorodco.com from TroutMagic@aol.com Sat Nov 14 17:33:58 1998 Subject: Morgan Hand Mill - Cost? Looked through the archives, but I can't seem to find anything thatmentionsthe cost of the Morgan hand Mill. The only thing I could find was areference to a beveler that was in the 2000 - 5000 dollar range Anyone have any idea what the Morgan Hand Mill is going for these days? Thanks Al from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Nov 14 19:16:07 1998 Subject: Re: Morgan Hand Mill - Cost? In a message dated 11/14/98 3:38:26 PM Pacific Standard Time,TroutMagic@aol.com writes: Anyone have any idea what the Morgan Hand Mill is going for these days? Tom Morgan can answer this, but to keep to the noncommercial rules,and since I have no monetary interest in this, a complete Morgan HandMill is $1995. Of course you have to add shipping and handling. Darryl from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Nov 14 19:44:39 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Morgan Hand Mill - Cost? The last time I spoke to Tom he sent me a brochure and he also told methatthis would go for $1995.00 but you can buy extrs stuff so you could run ituphigher.Bret from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Nov 14 19:51:43 1998 Subject: Re: Hand Planed? In a message dated 11/14/98 3:19:09 PM Pacific Standard Time,emiller257@dataflo.net writes: Cool pics Darryl. Looks like thr mill uses carbide inserts to achieve the correct angles. Ingenious! Carbide like these are universally used in machining and are readily available.Thanks for publishing them. Ed M. If you ask me, and I realize no one has, the idea was pure genius.You're right, those inserts are about $10, and can be bought at anymachining supply store. And, you can rotate them to use each edgeas a new fresh, sharp blade. Darryl from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sat Nov 14 19:58:59 1998 0600 Subject: Re: Morgan Hand Mill Sir D,All this talk about the Morgan Mill has me wondering. It is definitely anice machine. I saw one in action and can see that it has some realbenefits, for beginners. What I'm wondering is why you would want one? Itmay be a fraction faster than hand-planing, but that's all. My guess is thatit probably would not save you more than 5-10% of the time you spend inmaking rods. Each strip still has to be straightened, rough planed, andfinalplaned, one at a time. There should be no variances between strips, butthenthere should be only minute variations with accurately hand planed stripsaswell.It may be a little simpler to get accurate strips, but someone with yourexperience is already getting accuracy. This isn't meant to be a knock onthemachine, or a slam against you. I'm genuinely curious. I thought it wasneat, but decided I'd spend my $2k somewhere else. What's your take onthis? Harry SalarFly@aol.com wrote: from amcsmith@nlis.net Sat Nov 14 20:16:50 1998 Subject: Re: Hand Planed? At 08:50 PM 11/14/98 EST, you wrote:In a message dated 11/14/98 3:19:09 PM Pacific Standard Time,emiller257@dataflo.net writes: Cool pics Darryl. Looks like thr mill uses carbide inserts to achieve the correct angles. Ingenious! Carbide like these are universally used in machining and are readily available.Thanks for publishing them. Ed M. If you ask me, and I realize no one has, the idea was pure genius.You're right, those inserts are about $10, and can be bought at anymachining supply store. And, you can rotate them to use each edgeas a new fresh, sharp blade. Darryl sir D nice to have you back what should i look for in forms 5 inch centers istalked aboutbut what about finish, thread types for ajustment bolts , also i've builtyourdip? soak tube how due i get the poly off the ferules or what due i do chris ps all input would be helpful just happy he's back from sshorb@ozip.net Sat Nov 14 20:21:36 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-55785U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Sat, 14 Nov 1998 20:22:04 -0600 Subject: powered milling mach's Do the various powered milling machines I've read about cut off the highspots on a strip similar to the way a planer/jointer does, or do theyfollow the bends and kinks? Skip from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Sat Nov 14 21:14:35 1998 ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap(V1.3) Subject: rod design Well, Eudora just dumped on me and ate the last 10 days emails. I think Ihad read most of them. Thanks to everyone who responded to myquestions.At least some of the confusing things fell into place. Time will tell ifthey fell into the right place. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from WayneCatt@aol.com Sat Nov 14 21:23:18 1998 Subject: The Sir D (the rod) Story Tony - I was sent a e-mail with a clip where you were asking thesource ofthe Sir D - quessing that it was Driggs River inspired -I have posted thistothe list so all may hear.Years ago I was told by a gentleman - who fished the same section oftheJordan that I do - that a fast 7' rod was the only proper rod to use. The rodthe gentleman fished was a Dickerson - I suspect that he knew Lylepersonally- the gentleman grew up just a mile from the river and he maintained thefamily farm and returned there to escape a life in Chicago.The actual numbers or stress curve if you will come by blending aCrossSylph with an extended Midge - the numbers were crunched in the Youngshop onFront street in Traverse City - it was a demonstration of how Hexrodworked At about the same time I was converting Hexrod to work on ...chockchock...graphite rods for Tom Dorsey. In comparing the new graph with alltheothers I had at the time - it is as close to a T&T (plastic ..err... graphite)rod as you can get.Influnced by the encounters of the Jordan river gentleman I decidedto makethe rod. I have lawn cast the rod but was never on the stream with it. As Iwas wadering up the day of the test I watched in horror as the rod caseslid from the roof of my S-10 Blazer - landing in pure sand the rod casebuckeledand as it broke it broke the rod as well. The lesson here was that extremeburl wooden cases aren't a good thing. So for 13 years the Sir D has been arod design (or perhaps better stated as a blended rod taper) but I havenevercast one on the stream.So you are close with your guess - by the way I have cast the originalDriggsRiver - It was in the shop for touch up just before Todd sold it - as he hassold so much of his heritage.The rest of your comment is close on as well - in talking to Jack(Howell) inthe past - if we were to cast the same rod and then compare note - Jackwouldtalk of the flow as in the flow of the music he loves - I see numbers andcurves. Another reflection of how we each view life differently.Larry Blan has been my main critic (of great help) in revising Hexrodinto aWindows thing - the feature that he found of help is that I have alwaysused ascale of 1 inch of rod to 1000 in oz - this makes the stress graphs quitetall- it sort of spreads things out a bit and might make understanding thiswholeissue a bit less complex. Another program that will be more widespread isthatthat John Bokstrom has written - Ray Gould is providing a copy in his newbookon rod making due out sometime after the new year. John has also writtenabouthis method in TPF and given demos at Corbett Lake - John deals withdimensional slope of a rod - again someone elses way of seeing things.The crass commercial announcement is that if you look at:home.wmis.net/~cattanac you may find something to download. Wayne from anglport@con2.com Sat Nov 14 21:56:42 1998 Subject: Re: First impressions Don,I think that $10 a day was back when $1,000,000 was real money. (And I'llbet the bitch hunted!)Art At 10:06 PM 11/13/98, you wrote:At 18:28 13/11/98 -0500, Art wrote:Hey, let's not forget that famous "World's Best Authority on Everything",George Leonard Herter!Art Art, I've got his book on fishing tackle manufacturing and it was about whatwasexpected. My first fly typing book was by Herter. Got me started andthat'swhat was needed @ that point. Wished I had bought 2 more of his books -"How to live on $ 10.00/day" and "How to live with a bitch". The first one Don At 06:57 AM 11/13/98, you wrote:Mauro, Cane knowledge is accumulative knowledge - each book seems to addsomethingto the one previous. I started with Garrison and Barnes books. Bothservedwell. Got Wayne C's book and was pleased - similarly got Howell's bookandagain learned some new things. You don't need them all but for the guywhomight want to make his own forms either Wayne's or Jack's book willserveas a start point. Beforwarned though, that isn't the end of the bookswe'llsee or you'll buy. Some might be retreads and others offer newinformation. Good luck with your rods, Don At 20:57 12/11/98 -0800, you wrote:What is your advice regarding books for somebody who's just starting?I'mgetting the first culms next week hopefully. I was planning to startfollowing either Garrison or Cattenach. Thanks,Mauro. IMHO if you are just starting *don't* read Garrison. Tony from ddodd@hrfn.net Sat Nov 14 22:42:04 1998 (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP 23:50:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Beginner questions All, Just starting out and got "Sticker Shock" Thursaday during my lunchhour.Went to a machine shop and had the guy look at Garrisons 60" steel form.Well.....$500.00 to mill the four edges.....$120.00 to make the bolts....for..you got it ....$620.00. Well, need less to say I am pursuing otherbids.A fellow I work with at church this morning, who is a steel worker at theNewport News ship Yard, said the guy who gave you that bid did not needthe work and IF you really wanted the forms, you would have PAY for them.Maybe he is right. Looking for other machinists,Newbie Dave -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Beginner questions Hi Steve, There's a place near Toronto called Grindstone Anglers that sells planingforms for $350 cdn. I got that quote in August and they mentioned therewasa two month waiting list. Their number is 905 689-0880. Alternately,youcould take good planing form plans to a machine shop and see how muchtheywould charge. That's what some of us in Montreal did and were able to getforms built for about $200 plus the price of the steel and screws. Usual disclaimer applies. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 8:35 PM Subject: Re: Beginner questions Iv been offline for several months and a while back I had gotten an adress wondering if anyone has or knows the adress or phone # where I couldreachthat person. or if there is anyone else that is in Canada that could supplyme with supplys. My Canadian $ is worthless to the American $ and I dontrealy wanna pay 600 bucks for forms. from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Nov 14 23:13:21 1998 Subject: Re: Morgan Hand Mill In a message dated 11/14/98 6:01:53 PM Pacific Standard Time,fbcwin@fsbnet.com writes: I'm genuinely curious. I thought it wasneat, but decided I'd spend my $2k somewhere else. What's your take onthis? from rough strip to ready to be glued, I spend about 15 hours planing 18 strips (two tip two piece). I hear that the same amount of work can bedonein less than 2 hours with a Morgan Hand Mill. The Mill takes a raw stripdown to final taper - no rough planing to make it fit into the machine. Add to that the fatigue factor, that is, I can't stand there planing for 15 hoursat a stretch, and then this machine makes it possible to split a culm, roughand final plane, and glue an entire two tip blank in an evening. Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Nov 14 23:23:11 1998 Subject: Re: Hand Planed? In a message dated 11/14/98 6:21:38 PM Pacific Standard Time,amcsmith@nlis.net writes: nice to have you back what should i look for in forms 5 inch centers istalked aboutbut what about finish, thread types for ajustment bolts , also i've built yourdip? soak tube how due i get the poly off the ferules or what due i do Most tapers are given in 5 inch increments, so a planing form with5 inch centers is very convenient. The best source for your otherquestions is in Wayne's book, or Tom Penrose's web page. Cover the ferrules with masking tape, or just varnish over them(not the male side of course), the varnish will keep the nickle silver from tarnishing. Darryl from jfoster@gte.net Sat Nov 14 23:51:46 1998 Subject: Re: Morgan Hand Mill mac-creator="4D4F5353" Darryl Tom supplies a set of rough planing anvils if you believe in a heattreating regimen. the process doesn't have to change...? jerry from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Nov 15 00:02:15 1998 Subject: Re: Morgan Hand Mill In a message dated 11/14/98 9:56:43 PM Pacific Standard Time,jfoster@gte.netwrites: Tom supplies a set of rough planing anvils if you believe in a heattreating regimen. the process doesn't have to change...? I flame my culms, so the process for me won't change. Darryl from stpete@netten.net Sun Nov 15 00:23:25 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12)with SMTP id AAA10782 for ; Sun, 15 Nov Subject: Re: Beginner questions David, Make your own forms. Look at the Rodmaker's Page and find the link forThomas Penrose's page under Tip's FAQs & Tools or some such title. Substitute a 60 degree lathe bit tool ala Bruce Conner's page (samesource for the link). Voila, nice forms for about $60 bucks if you havea drill press or GOOD doweling jig. It takes some time, but, you'regonna wait on the forms from the shop. Or make wooden ones as BruceConner recommends. It's not that hard to do. I made wooden forms inabout 5 hours. Steel in about 30+ hours with all the draw filingrequired. I think I could make the next set in about half the time. Rick CrenshawDavid Dodd wrote: All, Just starting out and got "Sticker Shock" Thursaday during my lunchhour.Went to a machine shop and had the guy look at Garrisons 60" steel form.Well.....$500.00 to mill the four edges.....$120.00 to make the bolts....for..you got it ....$620.00. Well, need less to say I am pursuing otherbids.A fellow I work with at church this morning, who is a steel worker attheNewport News ship Yard, said the guy who gave you that bid did not needthe work and IF you really wanted the forms, you would have PAY forthem.Maybe he is right. Looking for other machinists,Newbie Dave -----Original Message-----From: Richard Nantel Date: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 9:23 PMSubject: RE: Beginner questions Hi Steve, There's a place near Toronto called Grindstone Anglers that sellsplaningforms for $350 cdn. I got that quote in August and they mentioned therewasa two month waiting list. Their number is 905 689-0880. Alternately,youcould take good planing form plans to a machine shop and see how muchtheywould charge. That's what some of us in Montreal did and were able togetforms built for about $200 plus the price of the steel and screws. Usual disclaimer applies. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 8:35 PM Subject: Re: Beginner questions Iv been offline for several months and a while back I had gotten anadress wondering if anyone has or knows the adress or phone # where I couldreachthat person. or if there is anyone else that is in Canada that couldsupplyme with supplys. My Canadian $ is worthless to the American $ and Idontrealy wanna pay 600 bucks for forms. from channer@hubwest.com Sun Nov 15 01:12:11 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AF2CA5C008C; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 00:13:48 MST Subject: Re: Beginner questions At 10:31 PM 11/14/98 -0500, you wrote:All, Just starting out and got "Sticker Shock" Thursaday during my lunchhour.Went to a machine shop and had the guy look at Garrisons 60" steel form.Well.....$500.00 to mill the four edges.....$120.00 to make the bolts....for..you got it ....$620.00. Well, need less to say I am pursuing otherbids.A fellow I work with at church this morning, who is a steel worker at theNewport News ship Yard, said the guy who gave you that bid did not needthe work and IF you really wanted the forms, you would have PAY forthem.Maybe he is right. Looking for other machinists,Newbie DaveDave;Make your own, it's not that hard. Maple is a little easier to work withthan steel, but you can still make steel ones with out a lot of fancyequipment, The differential screws that Garrison made are not necessary,use the push-pull system. You can find plans for making your own forms inWayne's book, Jack Howell's book and in several websites reached thru theRodmaker's homepage. John from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Nov 15 06:50:02 1998 Sun, 15 Nov 1998 20:47:18 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: The Sir D (the rod) Story On Sat, 14 Nov 1998 WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: Tony - I was sent a e-mail with a clip where you were asking thesource ofthe Sir D - quessing that it was Driggs River inspired -I have posted thistothe list so all may hear.Years ago I was told by a gentleman - who fished the same section oftheJordan that I do - that a fast 7' rod was the only proper rod to use. Therodthe gentleman fished was a Dickerson - I suspect that he knew Lylepersonally- the gentleman grew up just a mile from the river and he maintained thefamily farm and returned there to escape a life in Chicago./* lots sniped */ Wayne,thanks for letting me/all know the story behind the Sir D *but* more than that thanks for sharing it with the list. You have certainly been missed and hopefuly this is not just a quick visit.Well, I wasn't too far off the mark with the two rods anyhow. Whenevermy son (he owns the Driggs I made) and I (I have a Sir D) fish I always feel the two rods to be cousins.Working with computers as I do but with a background of boatbuilding and some instrument making as well as blacksmithing I tend to feel the numbers rather than see them. I guess it's like that feeling you get when you hit the sweet spot with a tennis raquet or bat and ball.It seems a little hard to believe most people who do this don't delevop something of both schools of thought and although there will be more books on the subject I'm certain Yours and JH's will be all anybody could really use when they take the first steps.Please pass on my regards to Jack Howell when you next see him. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from FlyTyr@southshore.com Sun Nov 15 07:33:22 1998 (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP 07:34:40 -0600 Subject: Sowbug Roundup Things have been slow on the list so I thought I would post this. The North Arkansas Fly Fishers will be holding "The Sowbug Roundup 99"in Mt. Home Arkansas on March 19-20, 1999. We will have over 40 flytyers, vendors, bamboo rod building, casting and many other eventsrelated to fly tying and fly fishing. Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from JHecht9234@aol.com Sun Nov 15 08:12:53 1998 Subject: reels How do you tell if a reel balances properly with a rod? Do people thinkthatgenerally modern reels are too light for bamboo rods? Finally, I wouldappreciate any recommendations of reels that listmembers have found tolookgood and balance well with bamboo rods (both premium reels andinexpensiveones). Thanks. from caneboy@xtn.net Sun Nov 15 08:27:38 1998 Subject: Say What! Wayne,It is good to see that your back! Even if it may be for a little bit.Because of my limited computer skills, I can not seem to find:home.wmis.net/~cattanac. Do you have any suggestions. from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Nov 15 08:29:32 1998 Subject: Binding thread I have been reliably informed that the thread Bob Milward uses in hismultiplethread binder is:Mettler Quilting 100% cotton Art. 135 500 yds. Col. 2 Ne 40/3 The "40" is important. 50, the most common, breaks too easily. The spools go into the binder just as they come. from jfoster@gte.net Sun Nov 15 08:47:15 1998 Subject: Re: Say What! mac-creator="4D4F5353" Mike tryhttp://cyber.wmis.net/~cattanac/ from sshorb@ozip.net Sun Nov 15 09:07:10 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-55785U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Sun, 15 Nov 1998 09:07:36 -0600 Subject: Re: Binding thread Thank you Skip from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Sun Nov 15 09:37:16 1998 with SMTP id AAAE5B for ;Sun, 15 Nov 1998 16:36:41 +0100 +0100 Subject: Morgan hand mill - different way`s Dear rodmaker friends Interesting to see a new bandwith growing with the discussion about themorgan hand mill. First - yes, also i ordered one. I talked a lot with european bamboo rodmakers about these "sacrileg" - milling or beveling the splines by a machine.What i heard and after these discussions mean - each should go his way.Also if you do most of the work on a rod by machine, i rests always some handwork. Today we know handplaning can often be accurate like with a machine, sometimes also more accurate.We have in europe not such a lot of bamboo rodmakers like you in the U.S., but some are wellknown. I heard from a "disput" betwen a wellknown, traditional "handplaner" and a "beveler", this discusion go so far, that the "handplaner" now is boycotted I see some rodbuilders doing both ways - the machined rods was mosttime in the same quality as the handplaned rods, some also on the second look.I have only problems with de different prices - if a machined rod will be sale be also paid, but wha`t thinks the consumer of this rods ( if he knows the way of making)? 40 or more hrs. for a handcrafted rod is a very long time, an most rods i build also this way. My idea for the Morgan mill is also to save some hours and money, for the fishermen interested in my rods.I`m also a friend of the traditional way - handplaning - and i think the Morgan mill is a fair compromise betwen the traditional way ( this for the maker) and for the consumer bucks. Each rodmaker must and should go his way, some with machines, somewith their handplanes. The result is importand, for those who make the rods I have respect for the traditional and also the "modern" way, today each bamboo rodmaker helps the tradition of bamboorod-fishing still alive - in a world of plastic and stock excange for me one of the most importand things! I read in some flyfishing books about the traditional flyfishers - only dry- or only wetflys - whats the right way to flyfish, was the question, sometimes also today. Myself like to fish all - wet`s, drys and sometimes also jigs, but the dry i like most. Cordially Stefan S. Grau`s * atelier edelweiss *Gespliesste Angelruten - Bamboo RodsBrunnadernstr. 11 CH-3006 Berne/SwitzerlandTel: 0041 (0) 31 352 42 88, ab 19.00/ from 7.PM from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Sun Nov 15 10:20:11 1998 Subject: Re: reels On Sun, 15 Nov 1998 JHecht9234@aol.com wrote: How do you tell if a reel balances properly with a rod? Do people thinkthatgenerally modern reels are too light for bamboo rods? Finally, I wouldappreciate any recommendations of reels that listmembers have found tolookgood and balance well with bamboo rods (both premium reels andinexpensiveones). Thanks. Lets do the over $200 classic category first. Off the top of my head..... Maybe a new repro Hardy Bougle (reasonable $)? Pic here: http://www.freeyellow.com/members4/flysupplies/page12.html Unless you have the $30G cash for an original. Robichaud (out of business, look for used, reasonable $). Peerless (reasonably high $) Ballan (older models, not the newer low quality models, reasonable $). Walker (out of business, look for used, highest $) Bellinger Saracione (much higher $) Vom Hofe (look for used, highest $) Adams (reasonably $) Hardy Perfect Repro (much higher $) Used older Hardy Perfect or St. George (reasonably $). New Winston Hardy Perfect (reasonably+ $) Noel (high $) Bogdan (highest $) Zwarg (look for used, highest $) Leonard-Mills (look for used, highest $) McNeese (high $) And of course the Haywood Governor (obscene $) Regards, Bobflysupplies@yahoo.com from mauro_carrara@email.msn.com Sun Nov 15 12:13:28 1998 Microsoft SMTPSVC;Sun, 15 Nov 1998 10:12:53 -0800 Subject: Planing forms and tools Sorry to bug all the pros (and experienced non-pros) on this list, but doesanybody have any advice on which of the planning forms and other commontools (i.e. plane, caliper or micrometer and so on....) a beginner like meshould get. I saw a few catalogues and of course they all claim to be thebest. Are there things I should pay particular attention to or particularquestions I should ask to the retailers?Thanks,Mauro. from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Nov 15 12:32:33 1998 Subject: Re: Say What! Mike -The address I gave (home.wmis.net/~cattanach) is my local connect tothenet the files that are there are in a public folder and are not a normal webpage - perhaps someday. you might try:home.wmis.net/~cattanac/hexbuild.zip -which is the program and support files (that overhead required bywindows) -the file is 1.9+ meg - once you have installed the program - to update youwould only need to download the exe(which is titled hex115.zip) - I, withthegreat help of Larry Blan, have been polishing it quite a bit lately so therewill be updates in the near furtue (guide should be incorporated thisafternoon) - so if you visit the site in the future and notice a differenthexXXX,zip file you can download that file - copying it over the old exe andbe current. There is one other file there at present (disk4.zip) that is allthe Taper(tpr) files that I have created to present (many more to come) -thatway you can have a running start at things with out doing a lot of typing.FYI- I have contacted Frank Stetzer to see if we can't share file structureinformation so that the information of the two programs can go crossplatform- that is in the works. Before warned - the program requires 32 bittechnologyand has only been tested on a couple of different machines - there may beafew little bugs that prop up - there are some 35 forms and 80 some pagesofcode - let me knowWayne from chris@artistree.com Sun Nov 15 13:19:52 1998 Subject: Re: reels (balanced rod) issue (fall 98) of the Angler's Journal regarding this subject. If youare interested in subscribing or picking up the issue their website is: http://www.anglersjournal.com JHecht9234@aol.com wrote: How do you tell if a reel balances properly with a rod? from sjstill@iquest.net Sun Nov 15 14:13:46 1998 0000 (209.43.48.27) Subject: Re: reels In addition to that stellar list Bob Perry supplied, don't forget thePflueger1495 with a dozen or so BB split shot inserted in the hub section. Makes apleasing "clunk-clank" sound as you strip out line and a handy club whenattacked Steve from GLohkamp@aol.com Sun Nov 15 14:27:20 1998 Subject: help lam trying to locate a web page that was posted here less than a weekago.A Japanese maker had posted some information about making reel seatsect,lthought l had book marked to page but l guess not. He had a varnishingproduct that lam interested in knowing more about. Any help ????? Thanks Gary Lohkamp from lsgorney@rs01.kings.edu Sun Nov 15 15:07:25 1998 8.7/8.7) id QAA37246; Sun, 15 Subject: Re: help Gary,Try the Asian page at my fishing links page at:http://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/fishing.htmLen Gorney lsgorney@kings.edu from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Nov 15 16:36:36 1998 Mon, 16 Nov 1998 06:36:26 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Planing forms and tools On Sun, 15 Nov 1998, Mauro Carrara wrote: Sorry to bug all the pros (and experienced non-pros) on this list, but doesanybody have any advice on which of the planning forms and othercommontools (i.e. plane, caliper or micrometer and so on....) a beginner like meshould get. I saw a few catalogues and of course they all claim to be thebest. Are there things I should pay particular attention to or particularquestions I should ask to the retailers?Thanks,Mauro. Think seriously about making the form from wood, do buy a 9 1/2 block plane, get a depth gauge and dial mic, consider binding the rod by hand, make the oven or go nodeless and use the kitchen oven for heat treatingmake the dip tube and use a pices of string to withdraw the rod if you must. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from maxs@geocities.co.jp Sun Nov 15 17:25:58 1998 geocities.co.jp(8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with SMTP id IAA19491 for; Mon, 16Nov 1998 08:25:51 +0900 (JST) Subject: RE: help A Japanese maker had posted some information>Gary Lohkamp Gary, I am not sure what you are looking for, but so far I guess I am the onlyJapanese who post recently. Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Nov 15 17:32:14 1998 Subject: Re: Lathe Question to Joe E. Chris,Jon must have built very, very small rods. Dave L. from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Sun Nov 15 17:55:46 1998 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id MAA15734 for ;Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:55:46+1300 Subject: Re: Planing forms and tools Mauro, Further to Tony's advice as a relatively inexperienced non-pro I recentlylashed out and bought a digital caliper. They are just so much easier to useand with the cheaper imports not a lot more then the dial models. I would really recommend that a beginer start with one of these becauseoftheir ease of use . My Korean one seems to be quite accurate enough , moreaccurate then my planning and cost about $15(US) more then the dial one. Ian Kearney At 06:36 AM 16/11/98 +0800, you wrote:On Sun, 15 Nov 1998, Mauro Carrara wrote: Sorry to bug all the pros (and experienced non-pros) on this list, butdoesanybody have any advice on which of the planning forms and othercommontools (i.e. plane, caliper or micrometer and so on....) a beginner like meshould get. I saw a few catalogues and of course they all claim to be thebest. Are there things I should pay particular attention to or particularquestions I should ask to the retailers?Thanks,Mauro. Think seriously about making the form from wood, do buy a 9 1/2 block plane, get a depth gauge and dial mic, consider binding the rod by hand, make the oven or go nodeless and use the kitchen oven for heat treatingmake the dip tube and use a pices of string to withdraw the rod if you must. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from jczimny@dol.net Sun Nov 15 18:19:33 1998 Subject: Re: rod design Onis,There is, in fact, such a rod. It is called a Cross Sylph.John Z-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: rod design I like that. Tony, Ian, thanks for the info. I got into this because Icouldn't buy what I wanted. I fish small warmwater streams (mostlyArkansas) and there are not rods designed for that type of fishing(or atleast my view of it). My goal is a good 7', 7wt. rod that handles like adry fly rod. After all, what is a popper but a real big dry fly.Apparently, unless I design it, and build it, I ain't gonna get it. So Ihad better understand at least some of what the masters did and aredoingor I am just throwing rocks in the dark. Your example is close enough. And I think I understand what you aresaying. The real difference is that for some it's best to know how to dosomething and for others it's better to know why you do it. Bothapproaches are valid and produce results and matter not to anyone exceptthose doing the work(and some of us from the other side who have tofigureit out). I have to follow the engineering approach however. Unless I knowthe why of something, I feel I am working in the dark. I expect there is aparallel on the artistic side. After a lifetime of engineering I'velearned one thing. Unless I know why, I am going to get bit! Again,thanks to the both of you. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com One thing to remember is the bit of sage (if you'll excuse that 4letter word) advise "never take some-ones home brewing advise 'tillyou'vetried his beer". from caneboy@xtn.net Sun Nov 15 18:35:38 1998 Subject: Re: Say What! Thank you Wayne for the valuable service. Again, you help the beginnerrodmaker. Fishing hats off to you! WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: Mike -The address I gave (home.wmis.net/~cattanach) is my local connectto thenet the files that are there are in a public folder and are not a normalwebpage - perhaps someday. you might try:home.wmis.net/~cattanac/hexbuild.zip -which is the program and support files (that overhead required bywindows) -the file is 1.9+ meg - once you have installed the program - to updateyouwould only need to download the exe(which is titled hex115.zip) - I, withthegreat help of Larry Blan, have been polishing it quite a bit lately so therewill be updates in the near furtue (guide should be incorporated thisafternoon) - so if you visit the site in the future and notice a differenthexXXX,zip file you can download that file - copying it over the old exeandbe current. There is one other file there at present (disk4.zip) that is allthe Taper(tpr) files that I have created to present (many more to come) -thatway you can have a running start at things with out doing a lot of typing.FYI- I have contacted Frank Stetzer to see if we can't share file structureinformation so that the information of the two programs can go crossplatform- that is in the works. Before warned - the program requires 32 bittechnologyand has only been tested on a couple of different machines - there maybe afew little bugs that prop up - there are some 35 forms and 80 somepages ofcode - let me knowWayne from hokkaido_flyfisher@yahoo.com Sun Nov 15 18:58:42 1998 1998 17:01:08 PST Subject: RE: help - the only Japanese who post Just curious, are there any other Japanese/rodmakerswho live in Japan? Cheers, Christian Max-sensei, Konnichi wa. Nihon de, watashi mo wa bamboo rod maker (minari) desu. Taraka- Kurisuchan tomoshimasu. Hokkaido/Otaru de sunde imasu. Sapporo no Hoshihara-sensei kara bamboo rod making naraimasu. Monbusho no ryuugakusei desu (Yo-roppa no chiisaikuni kara - Rukusenburgujin desu), Otaru Shoka Daigakuinsei de, keizaigakubu benkyou shimasu. Yoroshiku, Kurisuchan ---maxs wrote: I am not sure what you are looking for, but so far I guess I am the only Japanese who post recently. Max Satoh_________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Nov 15 19:24:54 1998 Subject: Shot in the foot Skip just brought it to my attention that the new program outputwasn'tmatching the old - found that for a tip top weight I had .18 instead of .018-DUH - it's fixed and there is a new zip(hex120) file - in it though is ahalffinished module for guide - it works but won't print yet. from anglport@con2.com Sun Nov 15 19:35:28 1998 Subject: Clearing up misunderstandings I just got an e-mail from Mr Harold Demarest about something I postedhererecently. I stated that you could not go to his warehouse to pick up 12 ftculms anymore. I had apparently misunderstood our discussion at theCatskill Gathering . He says you certainly CAN pick up culms in 12 ftlengths if you call ahead and specify that that is what you desire.Sorry to be the source of bad info.Art from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Nov 15 20:21:59 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Fwd: Lathe Question to Joe E. Jon,What model Sherline was at Roscoe .Hank. from sats@gte.net Sun Nov 15 21:03:44 1998 Subject: Re: I'm new There are three ways to go.A. buy a "New" bamboo rod. bottom of the barrel is, I believe, around $700dollars, top end is $2100? You can go higher if you want. B, buy used. Can't always get what you want, but you might get what youneed. C. build, or rebuild a rod of your own. If you've ever built a plastic rod,you know about 1/2 of what you need to know. The list, and a few goodbooks,can give you the rest. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from sats@gte.net Sun Nov 15 21:03:47 1998 Subject: Re: reels How do you tell if a reel balances properly with a rod? Do people thinkthatgenerally modern reels are too light for bamboo rods? Finally, I wouldappreciate any recommendations of reels that listmembers have found tolookgood and balance well with bamboo rods (both premium reels andinexpensiveones). Thanks. I like antique --inexpensive antique -- reels. However I find nothingwrongwith modern reels. I don't thing you have to go to a large reel to balanceabamboo rod, until you're out around the 8ft. mark. I judge more by sightthen performance. The weight would be so close to the fulcrum -- your hand -- thatIt would take a lot more then you'd want to add to change things much. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from saltwein@swbell.net Sun Nov 15 21:13:48 1998 VAA20599 Subject: Re: Planing forms and tools Mauro, In addition to the good advice you have received so far I would like toadd that you can forego an oven by flaming or using Sir Darryl's methodof driving the moisture out of the culm, after cutting them in half, byheating the inside of the culm with a heat gun. You can also use a copper tube for an oven, heat with ends capped with asmall hole in the cap to allow steam to escape, using a butane torch. My first rod was heat treated this way and wrapped by hand. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from flyrod6@juno.com Sun Nov 15 21:47:52 1998 22:47:34 EST Subject: Re: First impressions Read Waynes book and watch the video. Good way to start. On Thu, 12 Nov 1998 20:57:22 -0800 "Mauro Carrara"writes:What is your advice regarding books for somebody who's just starting? I'mgetting the first culms next week hopefully. I was planning to startfollowing either Garrison or Cattenach. Thanks,Mauro. IMHO if you are just starting *don't* read Garrison. Tony Mark A. Hallowell, SrDelaware River Fly Rods.flyrod6@juno.com from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Nov 15 22:22:08 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Hand Planed? Joe,As the old farmer said(and I'm a retired old farmer) "If it quacks like aduck , flies like a duck , walks like a duck, and swims like a duck ,it'sprobably a duck."Now, as I've just ordered Tom's hand mill my opinion is biased :- )Regards,Hank from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Nov 15 22:22:22 1998 Subject: Re: Re: rod design To Ian and Tony,et al,This rod design thing gets a little complicated for me when I startmessing with known tapers. I've made some dogs but I've been luckyrecently-Itook one of WC's 3 wght 7' and monkeyed around with it to make a 71/2'and itturned out great! And I used the graph again to shadow the PY15 to make a71/2' for a 5 wght. This taper, after fooling around with the buttdimensions,is now my Clark's Fork Series. Artistry,black magic or just someexperienceand luck? Who knows? But ain't it fun?Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Nov 15 22:22:28 1998 Subject: Re: Re: rod design Onis,I don't know if this will help but here goes. I tend to lean toward finetip straight line tapers although I've been playing with some parabolicsfairly successfully lately . I find that the fine tips give me somesensitivety in casting as well as roll casting properties to boot. I havealsodone some heavier tipped rods and had to put WC's "hinge" in 'em to make'emroll cast well. Now , from an artistic view point, the smooth curve of thegraphed taper looks great but the "hinge" may do somewhat the same thingas aparabolic taper would. Considering that you're going to be castingsomewhatheavier lures Iwould go for a straight taper,moderately steep with a hingeinthe butt if you need roll casting abilities. The tip should probably start at.070" or larger and the slope of the taper ought to be fairly steep if you'builing a 7' rod. All this of course IMHO. Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Nov 15 22:22:42 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Sv: I'm new Carsten and Bret,I was lucky enough to start with a Montague ($14.95 in 1948 dollars)after being abused by a telescopic steel fly rod as a kid . Of course I"graduated" to the "miracle "fiberglass and then to the even more"miraculous"graphite. Now graphite is usefull in heavy, long rod categories but formosttrout fishing I use a 71/2 ' cane for a wf5f line both here and in the West.Ifind that building fairly fast , heavy line tapers longer than 8' gets into somuch wood that weight becomes a factor to be considered whether Ihollow buildor not. Just my $.02Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Nov 15 22:22:47 1998 Subject: Re: rod design Onis,You've found me out- yes, it's black magic (and some luck) :-)Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Nov 15 22:23:25 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Hand Planed? Now Darryl, are you trying to stir up trouble ? :-)Regards,Hank. from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sun Nov 15 23:46:54 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Mon,16Nov 1998 00:56:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Lathe Question to Joe E. Huh? On 15 Nov 98, at 18:31, LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: Chris,Jon must have built very, very small rods. Dave L. Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.munrorodco.com from Canerod72@aol.com Mon Nov 16 00:26:43 1998 Subject: planing forms I'm just getting interrested in building cane rods and would like someadvisewith choosing a planing form. I've decided to bite the bullet and buy onerather than try to build one myself. The problem I'm facing now is who tobuyone from. I've seen them advertised by Colorado Bootstrap, Munro Tools,andheard that a guy in Maine also sells them. What I would like to know is ifanyone is familiar with any of these companies and what they think oftheirproducts. Is the form usable without tweaking? How long is the wait forone?Any advise is appreciated. Thanks, BillFelter from cmj@post11.tele.dk Mon Nov 16 01:32:38 1998 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0100 Subject: Sv: Re: Sv: I'm new . Now graphite is usefull in heavy, long rod categories but formosttrout fishing I use a 71/2 ' cane for a wf5f line both here and in the West.Ifind that building fairly fast , heavy line tapers longer than 8' gets intosomuch wood that weight becomes a factor to be considered whether Ihollow buildor not. Just my $.02Regards,Hank. I agree. Cane is for rods up til #6 and 8 feet. Once did copy a Hardy rodsome 9 feetlong in #6. Not being a tennis pro it simply was too heavy for me. In a conversation with a retired rodmaker from Hardy I mentioned theabove. He drylyremarked that at an age of 70 plus he still used a 10,5 feet singlehandedcane rod remarked: "Well, sir,it is simply a question of, how much fishing you do." Needles to say, I had no comments....... Regards, Carsten from cmj@post11.tele.dk Mon Nov 16 01:50:25 1998 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0100 Subject: Sv: Say What! Wayne Could You please repeat the URL for the downloading af HexRod98. I didsucceedin getting the programme, but trying to update with Your latest .zip-file, Igorthe "not found on this server" reply. regards, Carsten from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Nov 16 02:02:55 1998 Subject: Re: Hand Planed? In a message dated 11/15/98 8:26:14 PM Pacific Standard Time,FISHWOOL@aol.comwrites: Now Darryl, are you trying to stir up trouble ? :-) Who me? I've never done anything like that in my entire life..... Darryl from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Nov 16 06:29:34 1998 Mon, 16 Nov 1998 20:28:55 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: rod design On Sun, 15 Nov 1998 FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: To Ian and Tony,et al,This rod design thing gets a little complicated for me when I startmessing with known tapers. I've made some dogs but I've been luckyrecently-Itook one of WC's 3 wght 7' and monkeyed around with it to make a 71/2'and itturned out great! And I used the graph again to shadow the PY15 to makea71/2' for a 5 wght. This taper, after fooling around with the buttdimensions,is now my Clark's Fork Series. Artistry,black magic or just someexperienceand luck? Who knows? But ain't it fun?Regards,Hank. It sure is. Best of all, you get to use it all fishing. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Mon Nov 16 07:54:22 1998 (modemcable251.174.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.09.21.23.34)with SMTP id for Subject: Weight of long cane rods Hi Carsten, I wonder if our lifestyle hasn't turned us into pampered weaklings. I wasre- reading Schwiebert's Trout II this weekend and was amazed at thelengthand weight of older rods. People were enthusiastic about their 9.5 ft 6-7ozcane rods. I guess pressing TV remote controls or pushing a mouse may becausing a collective reduction in the mass of our arm muscles. Thankgoodness hand planing is probably a good way to counteract thisprogressiveatrophy. Richard -----Original Message----- Jorgensen Subject: Sv: Re: Sv: I'm new . Now graphite is usefull in heavy, long rod categories but formosttrout fishing I use a 71/2 ' cane for a wf5f line both here and in theWest. Ifind that building fairly fast , heavy line tapers longer than 8' gets intosomuch wood that weight becomes a factor to be considered whether Ihollowbuildor not. Just my $.02Regards,Hank. I agree. Cane is for rods up til #6 and 8 feet. Once did copy a Hardy rodsome 9 feetlong in #6. Not being a tennis pro it simply was too heavy for me. In a conversation with a retired rodmaker from Hardy I mentioned theabove.He drylyremarked that at an age of 70 plus he still used a 10,5 feet singlehandedcane rod remarked: "Well, sir,it is simply a question of, how much fishing you do." Needles to say, I had no comments....... Regards, Carsten from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon Nov 16 07:57:46 1998 Subject: Re: planing forms I can only address two of the planing forms. I began with a ColoradoBootstrap form and built 5-6 rods with it. My particular form needed a bitof tweaking to get the planing surface absolutely flat, but the form workswell for the money. I recently purchased a pricey planing form from J.D.Wagner (usual disclaimers)and have now built two rods with it. WOW! Whatanice form. It is so smooth that when you get down to the finalthousandths,you can't tell when you are taking wood or when you are taking metal.Worksextremely well with a scraper plane--very smooth. Using a scraper planeonthe Bootstrap often sounded like raking fingernails across a blackboard.Would I sell my Bootstrap? Absolutely not--may have friends whooccasionally will want to build a rod. do I like the new form, absolutely!!Worked well directly out of the shipping tube. Am I interested in theMorgan Hand Mill? Would love to have that one too!J. Snider. At 01:26 AM 11/16/98 EST, you wrote:I'm just getting interrested in building cane rods and would like someadvisewith choosing a planing form. I've decided to bite the bullet and buy onerather than try to build one myself. The problem I'm facing now is who tobuyone from. I've seen them advertised by Colorado Bootstrap, Munro Tools,andheard that a guy in Maine also sells them. What I would like to know is ifanyone is familiar with any of these companies and what they think oftheirproducts. Is the form usable without tweaking? How long is the wait forone?Any advise is appreciated. Thanks, Bill Felter from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Mon Nov 16 09:03:01 1998 ix13.ix.netcom.com via smap(V1.3) Subject: Re: rod design Sounds like sage advice to me, but what's a "hinge"? I've found manyreferences but no explanation. I started with a smooth taper with a softened tip. It's a nice rod to castbut to make a really good rod, it takes a lot of searching in the rightdirection. I am gravitating toward the parabolic myself but I am trying tomove incrementally rather than jump from one place to another. On myfourth rod, a mistake in my planing gave me a bit of concavity to thetaper. Didn't cast worth a ####. I am going to cut out the middlesection, put in a thickened piece and make it a three piece semi parabolic.I'll see how it does then. All this discussion is really a help. For some things, the archives can besearched and some times, it is very difficult to find info in the archives.If keywords are to common, you find to much and if you don't know theright keyword, you find nothing. So the comments and advice are reallyappreciated. I've read several references to the "hinge" over the pastyear but no real image has formed in my mind except a fuzzy picture ofsomeplace in the rod (don't know where), that is either thinner or thicker(don't know which), that improves the roll casting (don't know why). Again thanks a bunch for the help. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 11:21 PM 11/15/98 EST, you wrote:Onis,I don't know if this will help but here goes. I tend to lean toward finetip straight line tapers although I've been playing with some parabolicsfairly successfully lately . I find that the fine tips give me somesensitivety in casting as well as roll casting properties to boot. I havealsodone some heavier tipped rods and had to put WC's "hinge" in 'em to make'emroll cast well. Now , from an artistic view point, the smooth curve of thegraphed taper looks great but the "hinge" may do somewhat the samething as aparabolic taper would. Considering that you're going to be castingsomewhatheavier lures Iwould go for a straight taper,moderately steep with ahinge inthe butt if you need roll casting abilities. The tip should probably start at.070" or larger and the slope of the taper ought to be fairly steep if you'builing a 7' rod. All this of course IMHO. Regards,Hank. from saweiss@flash.net Mon Nov 16 09:52:25 1998 Subject: Re: planing forms -----Original Message----- Subject: planing forms I'm just getting interrested in building cane rods and would like someadvisewith choosing a planing form. I've decided to bite the bullet and buy onerather than try to build one myself. The problem I'm facing now is who tobuyone from. I've seen them advertised by Colorado Bootstrap, Munro Tools,andheard that a guy in Maine also sells them. What I would like to know is ifanyone is familiar with any of these companies and what they think oftheirproducts. Is the form usable without tweaking? How long is the wait forone?Any advise is appreciated. Thanks,Bill Felter Bill,I got my forms from Colorado Bootstrap several months ago. They wereusableas received. A few tool marks from the milling were visible on the insidesurfaces but the surfaces were flat. I have planed five rods and they arefine. I did not tune or tweak the forms, only set them to taper and went towork planing.Steve from saweiss@flash.net Mon Nov 16 09:56:17 1998 Subject: Re: Say What! Carsten,http://cyber.wmis.net/~cattanac from sjstill@iquest.net Mon Nov 16 10:06:21 1998 0000 (209.43.53.103) Subject: Re: I'm new "Terry L. Kirkpatrick" wrote: B, buy used. Can't always get what you want, but you might get whatyou need. Do you think that's what they were talking about in the song Steve from maxs@geocities.co.jp Mon Nov 16 10:12:39 1998 geocities.co.jp(8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with SMTP id AAA11712 for; Tue, 17Nov 1998 00:24:28 +0900 (JST) Subject: RE: help - the only Japanese who post Just curious, are there any other Japanese/rodmakerswho live in Japan? Cheers, Christian Christian, According to the list of Hirata Sensei's rod making school, there are ahundred of graduates of his class in Japan in the past ten years.I guess there are some other Sensei's than Hirata san. So probably threeorfour hundred of rod making people, including pros and amateurs, are livingin Japan. But a few who are good at argueing, writing English on the list,I guess. So far, I've never seen my colleage who post any subject on thislist recently. Max from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Mon Nov 16 10:27:58 1998 (modemcable251.174.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.09.21.23.34)with SMTP id for Subject: Swelled butts BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_MbNzpocjSu8vLZVHYIdMUQ)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_MbNzpocjSu8vLZVHYIdMUQ) BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_CVCC6l0FudsYlyLWSc5vUw)" --Boundary_(ID_CVCC6l0FudsYlyLWSc5vUw) Are there any special considerations in building a rod with a swelledbutt?Do most builders move the splines to a special planing form for just thispart of the rod? It seems some swelled butts are more abrupt thanpossiblewith a standard planing form. Thanks in advance Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca --Boundary_(ID_CVCC6l0FudsYlyLWSc5vUw) there any special considerations in building a rod with a swelled butt? = builders move the splines to a special planing form for just this part = rod? It seems some swelled butts are more abrupt than possible with a = planing form. in advance Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca --Boundary_(ID_CVCC6l0FudsYlyLWSc5vUw)-- --Boundary_(ID_MbNzpocjSu8vLZVHYIdMUQ) mail).vcf" BEGIN:VCARDVERSION:2.1N:Nantel;Richard;;;FN:Richard Nantel (E-mail)ORG:Le groupe MENTOR;TITLE:TEL;WORK;VOICE:(514) 393- 3292TEL;HOME;VOICE:(514) 485-2287TEL;PAGER;VOICE:[1] (514) 111- 1111TEL;WORK;FAX:(514) 393-1483ADR;WORK:;;4374 Old Orchard Avenue;Monteal;Quebec;H4A 3B4;CanadaLABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:4374 Old Orchard =Avenue=3D0D=3D0AMonteal, Quebec H4A 3B4=3D0D=3D0ACanadaADR;HOME:;;4374 Old Orchard Avenue;Monteal;Quebec;H4A 3B4;CanadaLABEL;HOME;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:4374 Old Orchard =Avenue=3D0D=3D0AMonteal, Quebec H4A 3B4=3D0D=3D0ACanadaEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:richard.nantel@videotron.caREV:19980514T133343ZEND:VCARD --Boundary_(ID_MbNzpocjSu8vLZVHYIdMUQ)-- from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Nov 16 11:07:01 1998 (5.5.2407.0) does anybody have a source for: Mettler quilting 100% cotton Art. 135500 yd. col. 2 Ne 40/3 thread for millward binders? from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Nov 16 11:43:56 1998 Subject: Re: Mystery midnight Was that cut into 6' lengths or the full 12'? How was it shipped?(Curious, my only order so far has been from Andy, full length, trucked toafriend w/a business to save a $40 residential surcharge. Trying to figureout my future options -- don't want to ask the friend to accept an ordervery often!) The order was from Demarest, they have a three culm minimum order,and they will cut it in half so it can be shipped by UPS. Darryl from jonfun@univest.com Mon Nov 16 11:46:44 1998 0600 Subject: Great List Well, I must admit I gasped when I opened my E-mail this morning andfound150 or so more E-mails than I usually get. However after reading each oneasI had the chance I am glad I joined this list. I have not even cracked abook on the subject yet and I already know a great bit of lingo and tools Iwill need. The humor and comradely of what I have read tell me I'm in withgood company. My questions on new and used rod prices where answered,however one question still remains. How much should I expect to invest inrod building including tools, supplies, etc. Obviously I cannot afford themilling machine at $2000.00 (what a great discussion by the way) , Atleastnot yet, but from culm to rod I would love an estimate on what I need tospend. This will tell me whether I can get started with a good book rightaway or if I need to settle for budgeting it in for a while. Again, thanks amin Little Rock and will do most of my fishing on the Little Red. Jonathan Funk winmail.dat Name: winmail.datType: unspecified type (application/octet-stream)Encoding: x-uuencode from thramer@presys.com Mon Nov 16 11:57:27 1998 0000 Subject: Re: powered milling mach's Skip Shorb wrote: Do the various powered milling machines I've read about cut off the highspots on a strip similar to the way a planer/jointer does, or do theyfollow the bends and kinks? SkipThe one I built is a beveler rather than a milling machine and it doesindeed follow the grain of the bamboo.A.J.Thramer from thramer@presys.com Mon Nov 16 12:04:11 1998 0000 Subject: Re: reels JHecht9234@aol.com wrote: How do you tell if a reel balances properly with a rod? Do people thinkthatgenerally modern reels are too light for bamboo rods? Finally, I wouldappreciate any recommendations of reels that listmembers have found tolookgood and balance well with bamboo rods (both premium reels andinexpensiveones). Thanks. I use two types of reels these days, Hardy Perfect and Pflueger, bothheavy and reliable. One inexpensive one moderate. I have owned Peerless,they balance well and fit the bill if you have a lot of extra cash. Ofcourse I have fondled the Bellinger reel also....A.J.Thramer from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Nov 16 12:43:27 1998 Subject: Re: Great List In a message dated 11/16/98 9:51:20 AM Pacific Standard Time,jonfun@univest.com writes: but from culm to rod I would love an estimate on what I need tospend. I'll take the first stab at this one. Assuming you would rather buy your tools rather than make them: Minimum order from Demarest - 3 culms approx. $125Planing form from Colorado Bootstrap - $350Stanley 9 1/2 - $45 Waterstone - $27Sharpening jig - $15Cabinet scraper - $5Glue - $8 Flame your culm - no need for an oven, but $18 for a propanetorch.Bind by hand - no need for a binder.Use an alcohol lamp instead of a heat gun for pressing thenodes and straightening - $5 (you already have a vise?)Hand rub or brush finish - $10 (for the varnish/finish) Components for your rod - Nickel silver ferrule - $40guides, reel seat, handle - depends on quality - approx. $75 Completed rod start to finish about $750, but the only otherrecurring cost for another rod is for the ferrule and othercomponents, so your next rods will cost only another $120 well ahead of buying two new cane rods. In the future youmay be able to sell a few rods. Then you get all your moneyback, and even may be able to buy the Morgan Hand Mill. Darryl from rmoon@ida.net Mon Nov 16 13:13:45 1998 Subject: Re: Great List CDF2FA49C884D74A5FB79E75" --------------CDF2FA49C884D74A5FB79E75 Darrell, At least you had the gumption to speak first, knowing full well thatthere would be some areas of disagreement. Let me toss in my ideas asgrist for the mill Minimum order from Demarest - 3 culms approx. $125Planing form from Colorado Bootstrap - $350Stanley 9 1/2 - $45 I fully agree with the first three items, but I have seen planes as lowas $35 it pays to shop a little. Waterstone - $27 I have never had a waterstone. I still use arkansas stones. Perhaps alittle cheaper, but the scary sharp method is cheaper still, and does apretty good job. Probably less than 5$ Sharpening jig - $15 I have two, but I bet I sharpen more blades without them than withthem. Still it is probably best to make good habits at the beginning. Cabinet scraper - $5 Never could use one of the damned things. Get a three sided machinist'sscraper (deburring tool) for $2.50 Glue - $8 Hope so! Flame your culm - no need for an oven, but $18 for a propanetorch.OK Bind by hand - no need for a binder. Now here we part company. I still maintain that it is not possible toget the pressure needed to get a good glue bond without a bindingmachine. I made mine for less than $10, a Garrison Clone. I wouldn'ttrade it. Tom Smithwick's design is simple and inexpensive, but DO NOTBIND BY HAND Use an alcohol lamp instead of a heat gun for pressing thenodes and straightening - $5 (you already have a vise?) used one for years, but I like the heat gun better Hand rub or brush finish - $10 (for the varnish/finish) OK As I have said many times before. It is not the gadgets that make agood cane rod, but the craftsmanship. Ralph --------------CDF2FA49C884D74A5FB79E75 Darrell, At least you had the gumption to speak first, knowing full well that as grist for the mill Minimum order from Demarest - 3 culms approx. $125Planing form from Colorado Bootstrap - $350Stanley 9 1/2 - $45 I fully agree with the first three items, but I have seen planes as Waterstone - $27 Perhaps a little cheaper, but the scary sharp method is cheaper still, Sharpening jig - $15 I have two, but I bet I sharpen more blades without them than with Still it is probably best to make good habits at the beginning. Cabinet scraper - $5 machinist'sscraper (deburring tool) for $2.50 Glue - $8 Hope so! Flame your culm - no need for an oven, but $18 for a propanetorch.OK Bind by hand - no need for a binder. possibleto get the pressure needed to get a good glue bond without a binding NOTBIND BY HAND Use an alcohol lamp instead of a heat gun for pressing thenodes and straightening - $5 (you already have a vise?) used one for years, but I like the heat gun better Hand rub or brush finish - $10 (for the varnish/finish) OK a good cane rod, but the craftsmanship. Ralph --------------CDF2FA49C884D74A5FB79E75-- from CALucker@aol.com Mon Nov 16 13:19:43 1998 Subject: Re: powered milling mach's In a message dated 11/14/98 6:28:09 PM Pacific Standard Time,sshorb@ozip.netwrites: It depends on how solid and close your hold-downs are, what is beneathyourstrip as it passes through the cutters and how straight your piece of caneis.Of course, how close your hold-downs are to the bottom of the cutter's arcdepends of the diameter of your cutter. There are a lot of variables. Chris Lucker from Anachemrpo@aol.com Mon Nov 16 13:29:34 1998 Subject: Re: Great List Darryl wrote: I started out collecting the stuff I needed last June. I find Darryls list tobe, with no pun intended, to be right on the money. Other things I bought or built: built a binder (about $70 total)heat gun (about $30)Dial indicator $8560* point $2.50Digital caliper $60Extra blades for plane $10 & $20Binding thread $25 (about a thousand miles worth of 16/4 cotton glace)Finer grit waterstones $40A couple of books $60Maple for rough planing forms $25 It's almost like buying tackle (almost), you can spend as little or as muchasyou'd like...but most of us will fall somewhere in the middle. I bet thatcomes out to somewhere between $700-$1000 to get off the ground, or,onto thewater, with our first rod. Russ L. from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Nov 16 13:53:29 1998 Subject: Re: Great List In a message dated 11/16/98 11:20:25 AM Pacific Standard Time,rmoon@ida.netwrites: At least you had the gumption to speak first, knowing full well thatthere would be some areas of disagreement. Yes sir, and I welcome all comments, agreeing or disagreeing. Howelse are we going to learn anything new? I have never had a waterstone. I still use arkansas stones. Perhaps alittle cheaper, but the scary sharp method is cheaper still, and does apretty good job. Probably less than 5$ I used to sharpen knives with an Arkansas stone, and started offsharpeningmy plane blades with them. Once I switched to a waterstone there was nocomparison in the sharpness. The waterstone was head and shouldersabove the Arkansas stone. I didn't know about the Scary Sharp beforeI bought the waterstone. If I did, I probably would have tried it. Never could use one of the damned things. Get a three sided machinist'sscraper (deburring tool) for $2.50 Actually I use a Lie-Nielson scraper now, but the guy wanted to knowthe cheaper way. Now here we part company. I still maintain that it is not possible toget the pressure needed to get a good glue bond without a bindingmachine. I made mine for less than $10, a Garrison Clone. I wouldn'ttrade it. Tom Smithwick's design is simple and inexpensive, but DO NOTBIND BY HAND The pressure from the binding string is additive. Have you ever wrappeda string around your finger many times, putting only moderate pressureon the string for each turn? The pressure builds up until it feels like yourfinger is going to come off. Same thing happens when binding a blank.Yes you can bind by hand. As I have said many times before. It is not the gadgets that make agood cane rod, but the craftsmanship. I agree with this also, that's why I was staying away from the gadgetslike an oven, binding machine, and dip tank. Darryl from RMargiotta@aol.com Mon Nov 16 13:55:53 1998 Subject: Re: reels I have found the Hardy Uniquas to be good "balancers". At $100-150 on theused lists, they are a good intermediate choice between the Medalists andthePerfects. --Rich from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Nov 16 13:58:26 1998 Subject: Re: Great List In a message dated 11/16/98 11:32:13 AM Pacific Standard Time,Anachemrpo@aol.com writes: Other things I bought or built: built a binder (about $70 total)heat gun (about $30)Dial indicator $8560* point $2.50Digital caliper $60Extra blades for plane $10 & $20Binding thread $25 (about a thousand miles worth of 16/4 cotton glace)Finer grit waterstones $40A couple of books $60Maple for rough planing forms $25 I did forget a few things. I would consider a dial indicatorand the 60 deg. point to be almost essential, and of coursethe books, but I had my books 6 months before I even seriously considered starting. Darryl from dhaftel@att.com Mon Nov 16 14:41:48 1998 sender att.com!dhaftel (att.com!dhaftel); Mon Nov 16 13:57 CST 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2 sol2) (5.5.2232.9) Subject: RE: Great List Ralph, To that I could add that making the gadgets (in my opinion, of course) ishalf the fun of rodmaking! For me, making the roughing forms and thebinderonly added to my enjoyment and understanding of the craft. Dennis -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Great List Darrell, At least you had the gumption to speak first, knowing full well that therewould be some areas of disagreement. Let me toss in my ideas as gristforthe mill Minimum order from Demarest - 3 culms approx. $125 Planing form from Colorado Bootstrap - $350 Stanley 9 1/2 - $45 I fully agree with the first three items, but I have seen planes as low as$35 it pays to shop a little. Waterstone - $27 I have never had a waterstone. I still use arkansas stones. Perhaps alittle cheaper, but the scary sharp method is cheaper still, and does apretty good job. Probably less than 5$ Sharpening jig - $15 I have two, but I bet I sharpen more blades without them than with them. Still it is probably best to make good habits at the beginning. Cabinet scraper - $5 Never could use one of the damned things. Get a three sided machinist'sscraper (deburring tool) for $2.50 Glue - $8 Hope so! Flame your culm - no need for an oven, but $18 for a propane torch. OK Bind by hand - no need for a binder. Now here we part company. I still maintain that it is not possible to getthe pressure needed to get a good glue bond without a binding machine. Imade mine for less than $10, a Garrison Clone. I wouldn't trade it. TomSmithwick's design is simple and inexpensive, but DO NOT BIND BY HAND Use an alcohol lamp instead of a heat gun for pressing the nodes and straightening - $5 (you already have a vise?) used one for years, but I like the heat gun better Hand rub or brush finish - $10 (for the varnish/finish) OK As I have said many times before. It is not the gadgets that make a goodcane rod, but the craftsmanship. Ralph from anglport@con2.com Mon Nov 16 15:00:56 1998 Subject: Re: rod design Onis,E-mail directly to Darryl . I think he coined the term. I foyur serverstrips the addresses from the mail, his is: SalarFly@aol.com I KNOW he discussed the concept in a message but I don't know when, soyou'd be best to go to the source. If I remember correctly, it refers to athin spot in the butt that allows the tip to work "over-well" to transferthe cast more effectively to the line.Good luck,Art At 08:59 AM 11/16/98 -0600, you wrote:Sounds like sage advice to me, but what's a "hinge"? I've found manyreferences but no explanation. I started with a smooth taper with a softened tip. It's a nice rod to castbut to make a really good rod, it takes a lot of searching in the rightdirection. I am gravitating toward the parabolic myself but I am tryingtomove incrementally rather than jump from one place to another. On myfourth rod, a mistake in my planing gave me a bit of concavity to thetaper. Didn't cast worth a ####. I am going to cut out the middlesection, put in a thickened piece and make it a three piece semi parabolic.I'll see how it does then. All this discussion is really a help. For some things, the archives can besearched and some times, it is very difficult to find info in the archives.If keywords are to common, you find to much and if you don't know theright keyword, you find nothing. So the comments and advice are reallyappreciated. I've read several references to the "hinge" over the pastyear but no real image has formed in my mind except a fuzzy picture ofsomeplace in the rod (don't know where), that is either thinner or thicker(don't know which), that improves the roll casting (don't know why). Again thanks a bunch for the help. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 11:21 PM 11/15/98 EST, you wrote:Onis,I don't know if this will help but here goes. I tend to lean toward finetip straight line tapers although I've been playing with some parabolicsfairly successfully lately . I find that the fine tips give me somesensitivety in casting as well as roll casting properties to boot. I havealsodone some heavier tipped rods and had to put WC's "hinge" in 'em to make'emroll cast well. Now , from an artistic view point, the smooth curve of thegraphed taper looks great but the "hinge" may do somewhat the samethingas aparabolic taper would. Considering that you're going to be castingsomewhatheavier lures Iwould go for a straight taper,moderately steep with ahinge inthe butt if you need roll casting abilities. The tip should probablystart at.070" or larger and the slope of the taper ought to be fairly steep if you'builing a 7' rod. All this of course IMHO. Regards,Hank. from rmoon@ida.net Mon Nov 16 15:05:38 1998 Subject: Re: Great List DennisYou are right of course. I only intended to put the cart before thehorse. The gadgets you make to augment your craftsmanship contribute tothe total experience, but you should never get to the point where youare convinced that the gadgets make the rod. You do. Ralph and to Darrell I am sure that we will never be in agreement on the binding question.C'est la vie. However if you will examine the Garrison binder carefullyyou will note that the pressure on the strips comes from the drive beltand not from the tension on the binding cord. I am certainly nophysicist, and I have no intention of trying to determine the effectiveforce on the strips, but it seems to me that the force exerted over thethickness of the drive belt from the tension of a pound or more ofweight is far more than the binding cord itself could sustain. Thebinding cord merely holds in place the pressure that the drive belt hasexerted on the rod sections. To carry this even further it seems to methat Tom Smithwicks design and Bob Millward's too are less effectivethan Garrison's because in both cases the pressure comes from thebinding cord. Maybe I will try to do some figuring on the mechanics,but if someone else comes up with it first, great. Ralph from bacon@idt.net Mon Nov 16 15:11:46 1998 Subject: Re: First impressions Ralph W Moon wrote: Jean There is a broad line between being nursed (pardon the pun) intobuilding a bamboo rod and just jumping in and doing it. When Istarted I had only one reference, George Leonard Herter's book onbuilding bamboo rods. I blundered along for twenty years before I gotmy first rod done. It was a mess in appearance, but it was a goodfishing rod. Go Figure. On the other hand, I just finished only afew weeks ago teaching an absolute beginner in a class that lastedonly about six days. He made a beautiful rod, and I am confident thathe will only go on to build more rods better than his first. I thinkthat he benefited from my lessons in learning a few of those littletricks that not even many on this list talk about that make rodbuilding a little easier. True you will learn them throughexperience, but lessons will save some time. Fancy gadgets howeverare not the answer, it is learning your craft.I have as of yesterday finished a marathon of planing. Three two tiprods. After all the years I have spent with a plane in my hand, Istill found myself beginning to struggle and strain on some of thesections. Even now I still find myself forgetting some of the hardestlearned lessons (and one of the most basic: KEEP THY PLANE IRONSSHARP!!!!!) But I tell you that being reminded by pain teaches asharper lesson that the admonitions of a mentor, no matter how good heis. Go do It and if you can latch on to a maker who is willing to help doso. If not don't sweat it. Ralph ralph,i know my limitations and have started a class (last wednesday) withart weiler in n.j. my somewhat flip suggestion of "just do it", iscertainly not for me, unless i have mucho direction. i WISH i could beso confident, but, alas...i'm just a female afterall..(only kidding),but i WOULD be more comfortable in the kitchen, except that's not howi'll get a bamboo rod built...will let you know how it goes offlist..the first day was certainly an eyeopener...and yes, i will "keepmine blades very sharp" jean from rclarke@eou.edu Mon Nov 16 15:35:44 1998 Subject: Re: Great List Ralph, Sir D. et al, Is that price right on the culms? That seams like a lot more than what Ipaid (did not get through Demerest). I have about 30 culms that I paid atotal of about $500 for. I guess I got a real deal! Sir D, you left out the dip tube with the nuclear accelerator :) Only acouple mil for that (not sure as to exact price). Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Ralph W Moon Subject: Re: Great ListDate: Monday, November 16, 1998 10:59 AM Darrell, At least you had the gumption to speak first, knowing full well thatthere would be some areas of disagreement. Let me toss in my ideas asgrist for the mill Minimum order from Demarest - 3 culms approx. $125Planing form from Colorado Bootstrap - $350Stanley 9 1/2 - $45 I fully agree with the first three items, but I have seen planes as lowas $35 it pays to shop a little.(SNIP) from dhaftel@att.com Mon Nov 16 15:54:21 1998 sender att.com!dhaftel (att.com!dhaftel); Mon Nov 16 15:12 CST 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2 sol2) (5.5.2232.9) Subject: RE: Great List Oops... Forgot the oven. Built one of those too! Dennis -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Great List Ralph, To that I could add that making the gadgets (in my opinion, of course) ishalf the fun of rodmaking! For me, making the roughing forms and thebinderonly added to my enjoyment and understanding of the craft. Dennis -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Great List Darrell, At least you had the gumption to speak first, knowing full well that therewould be some areas of disagreement. Let me toss in my ideas as gristforthe mill Minimum order from Demarest - 3 culms approx. $125 Planing form from Colorado Bootstrap - $350 Stanley 9 1/2 - $45 I fully agree with the first three items, but I have seen planes as low as$35 it pays to shop a little. Waterstone - $27 I have never had a waterstone. I still use arkansas stones. Perhaps alittle cheaper, but the scary sharp method is cheaper still, and does apretty good job. Probably less than 5$ Sharpening jig - $15 I have two, but I bet I sharpen more blades without them than with them. Still it is probably best to make good habits at the beginning. Cabinet scraper - $5 Never could use one of the damned things. Get a three sided machinist'sscraper (deburring tool) for $2.50 Glue - $8 Hope so! Flame your culm - no need for an oven, but $18 for a propane torch. OK Bind by hand - no need for a binder. Now here we part company. I still maintain that it is not possible to getthe pressure needed to get a good glue bond without a binding machine. Imade mine for less than $10, a Garrison Clone. I wouldn't trade it. TomSmithwick's design is simple and inexpensive, but DO NOT BIND BY HAND Use an alcohol lamp instead of a heat gun for pressing the nodes and straightening - $5 (you already have a vise?) used one for years, but I like the heat gun better Hand rub or brush finish - $10 (for the varnish/finish) OK As I have said many times before. It is not the gadgets that make a goodcane rod, but the craftsmanship. Ralph from saltwein@swbell.net Mon Nov 16 15:54:29 1998 PAA24172 Subject: Re: Great List I did forget a few things. I would consider a dial indicatorand the 60 deg. point to be almost essential, and of coursethe books, but I had my books 6 months before I evenseriously considered starting. Darryl My turn to jump in. A #10 mill bastard file comes in real handy, even after seeing it at SRG) but I did the first three rods without ascraper. I would almost consider a heat gun a must at this point. Going from analcohol lamp to a heat gun was a giant step in ease for me. Read all you can! Archives, Library, Friends(if you actually havefriends who will give you their books) or buy. I am on my fourth rod with the maple forms that I made for around $30,don't really see a reason to go to steel. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO PS The most important tool that I found was the Rodmakers List. Idon't believe I would have started except for this resource. Thank yougentleman, once again. from bacon@idt.net Mon Nov 16 15:56:07 1998 Subject: Re: Great List Robert Clarke wrote: Ralph, Sir D. et al, Is that price right on the culms? That seams like a lot more than what Ipaid (did not get through Demerest). I have about 30 culms that I paid atotal of about $500 for. I guess I got a real deal! Sir D, you left out the dip tube with the nuclear accelerator :) Only acouple mil for that (not sure as to exact price). Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Ralph W Moon Subject: Re: Great ListDate: Monday, November 16, 1998 10:59 AM Darrell, At least you had the gumption to speak first, knowing full well thatthere would be some areas of disagreement. Let me toss in my ideas asgrist for the mill Minimum order from Demarest - 3 culms approx. $125Planing form from Colorado Bootstrap - $350Stanley 9 1/2 - $45 I fully agree with the first three items, but I have seen planes as lowas $35 it pays to shop a little.(SNIP)to all:spoke with demarest this week, unless i've gone completely crazy, idobelieve he said $30 per culm. am going to pick some up and will let youknow for sure.(bacon@idt.net) from rmoon@ida.net Mon Nov 16 16:02:48 1998 Subject: Re: First impressions Jean Glad You are on your way. My best to youRalph from sjstill@iquest.net Mon Nov 16 16:08:07 1998 0000 (209.43.48.242) Subject: Scary Sharp? Hi Guys, What is this scary sharp a couple of you have mentioned? I recall hearingof it before, but can't recall specifics. TIA Steve Steve and Julie Stillabower, Indianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Nov 16 16:17:57 1998 Subject: Re: rod design In a message dated 11/16/98 1:09:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,anglport@con2.com writes: E-mail directly to Darryl . I think he coined the term. I foyur serverstrips the addresses from the mail, his is: Nope, not me. It was Wayne C's concept. Darryl from cmj@post11.tele.dk Mon Nov 16 16:20:02 1998 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0100 Subject: Mystery Rod from 105 Victoria S. Westminster boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE11B7.77443A40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE11B7.77443A40 Yet another satisfied customer has trusted me to restore a rod, and boy =what a rod. It is a 3 piece, 15 feet twohanded rod, bought second hand =some 42 years ago. It is NOT a flyrod, nor is it an ordinary spin rod. =Also included was a wooden reel, with two handles, like a flyreel. I =presume it is a trotting reel. Inscribed in the brass and rubber butt cap is: A. & N.C.S.L makers =105 Victoria S.. Westminster The eyes a very thin, of a peculiar construction with the feet not =placed on the same strip. I have enclosed an embarrasing amateurish drawing. regards, Carsten Jorgensen Dania Flyrods Guess the rod is english and prop. at least fifty years old. John =Cooper, if You read this, could you, or anyone else, give some info on =this rod? Could it be a trotting rod? The client wants it restored, inclusive of all 142 intermediate =wrappings (OH LORD) ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE11B7.77443A40 name="Mystery Rod.jpg" filename="Mystery Rod.jpg"> from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Nov 1616:21:16 1998 Subject: Re: Great List In a message dated 11/16/98 1:40:41 PM Pacific Standard Time,rclarke@eou.eduwrites: Is that price right on the culms? That seams like a lot more than what Ipaid (did not get through Demerest). I have about 30 culms that I paid atotal of about $500 for. I guess I got a real deal! The price per culm is a lot less if you buy in quantity, andavoid the handling charge - cutting the culm in two so it canbe shipped UPS. Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Nov 16 16:25:19 1998 Subject: Re: Scary Sharp? In a message dated 11/16/98 2:12:39 PM Pacific Standard Time,sjstill@iquest.net writes: What is this scary sharp a couple of you have mentioned? I recallhearingof it before, but can't recall specifics. It's on a web site somewhere, but basically it's stickingvarious grades of wet - dry sandpaper on a plate of glass,Then using a sharpening jig to sharpen your plane blade. Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Nov 16 17:00:51 1998 Subject: Re: Great List In a message dated 11/16/98 1:11:27 PM Pacific Standard Time,rmoon@ida.netwrites: I am sure that we will never be in agreement on the binding question.C'est la vie. However if you will examine the Garrison binder carefullyyou will note that the pressure on the strips comes from the drive beltand not from the tension on the binding cord. We aren't that far off in agreement. I actually have a Garrisontype binder, but I started off years ago binding by hand. Thisis how I did it. I clamped a spinning reel (I knew it would comein handy one of these days) to the table, set the drag just rightand held my hands on either side of the line as I rotated andmoved down the blank. I had pressure from my fingers aroundthe blank, and pressure from the line as I wound it on. The pressure was kept more or less even by the drag of the spinning reel. I also used the monofilament fishing line thatwas on the reel. It stretched a little as I wound it on and puta lot of pressure on the splines. I still use mono fishing lineto bind my blanks for glue up. A binding machine does make it a lot easier to bind, as a dip tank makes it a lot easier to get a flawless finish, andan oven makes it a lot easier to heat treat. But, they aren'tneccessary for a first rod. Darryl from gwbarnes@gwi.net Mon Nov 16 17:04:39 1998 Subject: Re: Scary Sharp? Hate to argue, but my vote would go to sharpening with diamond paste.Untilyou've tried that I doubt you know what sharp really is.George Steve Stillabower wrote: Hi Guys, What is this scary sharp a couple of you have mentioned? I recallhearingof it before, but can't recall specifics. TIA Steve Steve and Julie Stillabower, Indianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Nov 16 17:07:52 1998 Subject: Re: Mystery Rod from 105 Victoria S. Westminster In a message dated 11/16/98 2:25:32 PM Pacific Standard Time,cmj@post11.tele.dk writes: Guess the rod is english and prop. at least fifty years old. John Cooper, ifYou read this, could you, or anyone else, give some info on this rod?Could it be a trotting rod? John is off the list - don't worry he will be back - he just hassome work he has to do without interruption, but he doesrespond to private emails. His address is:jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Darryl from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Nov 16 17:08:40 1998 Subject: Re: Re: First impressions To all you newbies,Some 20+ years ago I bought Garrison's book, had a local machine shopdomy forms as in Garrison's book, got culms from Demarest and the rest ofthetools and was completely intimidated for about a year until I saw a videoofGarrison splitting cane(no,I don't remember where I saw it or even if it'savailable). Anyway, I thought"hell, I can do that" and jumped right in. I'vebeen going to hell in a hand cart ever since and loving every minute of it.So, jump right in, you're going to make mistakes,I still do.Regards,Hank-why did you do that ,dummy-Woolman. from anglport@con2.com Mon Nov 16 17:12:52 1998 Subject: Re: Scary Sharp? Try: http://www.cnh.mv.net/ipusers/gunterman/SCARY.HTM That'll do 'er.Art At 05:24 PM 11/16/98 EST, you wrote:In a message dated 11/16/98 2:12:39 PM Pacific Standard Time,sjstill@iquest.net writes: What is this scary sharp a couple of you have mentioned? I recallhearingof it before, but can't recall specifics. It's on a web site somewhere, but basically it's stickingvarious grades of wet - dry sandpaper on a plate of glass,Then using a sharpening jig to sharpen your plane blade. Darryl from rmoon@ida.net Mon Nov 16 17:14:24 1998 Subject: Re: Scary Sharp? Steve try the following URL http://www.mv.com/ipusers/gunterman/SCARY.HTM Ralph from anglport@con2.com Mon Nov 16 17:14:49 1998 Subject: Re: rod design Darryl---Sorry! Onis----Go get 'im!ART At 05:16 PM 11/16/98 EST, you wrote:In a message dated 11/16/98 1:09:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,anglport@con2.com writes: E-mail directly to Darryl . I think he coined the term. I foyur serverstrips the addresses from the mail, his is: Nope, not me. It was Wayne C's concept. Darryl from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Nov 16 17:22:27 1998 Subject: Re: Sv: Re: Sv: I'm new Carsten,Hank,I have a beautiful 9' Heddon Black Beauty that is very slow and I love tofishwets and streamers with it. I have swung it around on some very longdays onthe Pere Marquette just drifting wets and streamers thru the holes andrunswith much pleasure. I guess working construction all my life has made forstrong arms and shoulders.Bret from lblan@provide.net Mon Nov 16 17:35:30 1998 Subject: RE: rod design My money is on Wayne... I distinctly remember discussing the "hinge" atabout 5:00 one morning during one of many two pot of coffee all-nightersinthe "Chicken Coop", before there was a book! Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, November 16, 1998 3:59 PM Subject: Re: rod design Onis,E-mail directly to Darryl . I think he coined the term. I foyur serverstrips the addresses from the mail, his is: SalarFly@aol.com I KNOW he discussed the concept in a message but I don't know when, soyou'd be best to go to the source. If I remember correctly, it refers to athin spot in the butt that allows the tip to work "over-well" to transferthe cast more effectively to the line.Good luck,Art At 08:59 AM 11/16/98 -0600, you wrote:Sounds like sage advice to me, but what's a "hinge"? I've found manyreferences but no explanation. I started with a smooth taper with a softened tip. It's a nicerod to castbut to make a really good rod, it takes a lot of searching in the rightdirection. I am gravitating toward the parabolic myself but Iam trying tomove incrementally rather than jump from one place to another. On myfourth rod, a mistake in my planing gave me a bit of concavity to thetaper. Didn't cast worth a ####. I am going to cut out the middlesection, put in a thickened piece and make it a three piece semiparabolic.I'll see how it does then. All this discussion is really a help. For some things, thearchives can besearched and some times, it is very difficult to find info inthe archives.If keywords are to common, you find to much and if you don't know theright keyword, you find nothing. So the comments and advice are reallyappreciated. I've read several references to the "hinge" over the pastyear but no real image has formed in my mind except a fuzzypicture of someplace in the rod (don't know where), that is either thinner or thicker(don't know which), that improves the roll casting (don't know why). Again thanks a bunch for the help. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 11:21 PM 11/15/98 EST, you wrote:Onis,I don't know if this will help but here goes. I tend to leantoward finetip straight line tapers although I've been playing with someparabolicsfairly successfully lately . I find that the fine tips give me somesensitivety in casting as well as roll casting properties toboot. I havealsodone some heavier tipped rods and had to put WC's "hinge" in'em to make 'emroll cast well. Now , from an artistic view point, the smoothcurve of thegraphed taper looks great but the "hinge" may do somewhat the samethingas aparabolic taper would. Considering that you're going to becasting somewhatheavier lures Iwould go for a straight taper,moderately steep with ahinge inthe butt if you need roll casting abilities. The tip should probablystart at.070" or larger and the slope of the taper ought to be fairlysteep if you'builing a 7' rod. All this of course IMHO. Regards,Hank. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Nov 16 17:43:42 1998 Subject: Re: Re: planing forms Bill, I also have Colorado forms and mine are flat and straight as can be.Will make any rod I am trying to do.Bret from dellc@nextdim.com Mon Nov 16 17:58:32 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A8C333E80148; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 15:44:03 PDT Subject: Re: Scary Sharp? I use an EZ-Lap diamond stone and it sharpens the blade very sharp.Dell Coppock-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Scary Sharp? Hate to argue, but my vote would go to sharpening with diamond paste.Untilyou've tried that I doubt you know what sharp really is.George Steve Stillabower wrote: Hi Guys, What is this scary sharp a couple of you have mentioned? I recallhearingof it before, but can't recall specifics. TIA Steve Steve and Julie Stillabower, Indianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net from rcurry@top.monad.net Mon Nov 16 17:59:03 1998 Subject: Re: Weight of long cane rods Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Carsten,Hank,I have a beautiful 9' Heddon Black Beauty that is very slow and I love tofishwets and streamers with it. I have swung it around on some very longdays onthe Pere Marquette just drifting wets and streamers thru the holes andrunswith much pleasure. I guess working construction all my life has madeforstrong arms and shoulders.BretBret,Ten feet was considered a good length for a lady to use at the turn ofthe century. I use such a rod often and find that it tires me less thanan eight foot "dry fly" rod.Here's why:1/ The 10' wet fly rod is slooow action. This means it loads righttothe slim butt. 2/ No false casting required. Seventy-five percent of the castswhenusing a fast action rod are false casts; that's got to tire you out.3/ A reel that balances the rod when at rest. (Nothing is going tobalance a rod when it has line in the air.)4/ Fishing out the cast. The more time the fly is in the water, theless time in the air.5/ Planning the casts.6/ Enjoying the river (also known as "zoning out"). If I can manage this after sitting on my butt all week, anybody can.Best regards,Reed from vbrannick@citlink.net Mon Nov 16 18:25:28 1998 with SMTP id SAA26949 Subject: Re: Re: First impressions THIS is what has me absolutely astounded!Does it go "I'm with you boo boo"? More than twenty years ago I drovedownto Towaco, N.J. to buy some bamboo. It was Nov. 11, Veteran's Day andDemerest was closed. I talked with him at his N.J. home by phone and heassured me he would chose suitable culms for me and ship to me atBinghamton, N.Y. by truck freight. The total cost for three 12' culms was$30. $15. for the bamboo and $15 for the shipping. What a difference a(twenty years makes)!I made my own oven - an aluminum thick walled tube with threeelectricheating units and a thermostatically controlled switch--- cost $0.---mygood luck (secret).I made my own planing form ala Herter, except with Garrisontaper(s).---cost $0.---same as above.I also made a binding machine ala Garrison---same as above.Three Stanley planes cost about $45. total. (Some good ones can befoundat flea markets) - fine tuning undoubtedly required.How much does it cost to get started? H.P. Wells has an answer -look him up. -- But then that was ninety seven years ago. Vince B. Subject: Re: Firstimpressions To all you newbies,Some 20+ years ago I bought Garrison's book, had a local machine shopdomy forms as in Garrison's book, got culms from Demarest and the rest ofthetools and was completely intimidated for about a year until I saw a videoofGarrison splitting cane(no,I don't remember where I saw it or even if it'savailable). Anyway, I thought"hell, I can do that" and jumped right in.I'vebeen going to hell in a hand cart ever since and loving every minute of it.So, jump right in, you're going to make mistakes,I still do.Regards,Hank-why did you do that ,dummy-Woolman. from jpr@primeline.com Mon Nov 16 18:31:14 1998 Subject: Digest? Does this list have a digest? I was a little taken aback by how manymessages I have accumulated in the last 18 hours. -John from sjstill@iquest.net Mon Nov 16 19:02:46 1998 0000 (209.43.55.180) Subject: One Very Necessary Thing Hi Guys (and Gals), Whilst out tweaking my sorry excuse for a beveller, I neglected to followbasic, common sense rule of bamboo; WEAR LEATHER GLOVES OR OTHER FINGER/HAND PROTECTION!!!! I've now got a dandy new 1/2" slice on my left index finger from a splinethat went zzzziiipppppping thru the beveller :-( Not deep, but enoughblood to make a rather interesting color scheme on 1 spline Embarassed in Indy, Steve Oh, yea, a stock of band-aids are handy too Steve and Julie Stillabower, Indianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Nov 16 19:22:23 1998 0600 Subject: Re: Scary Sharp? Mr. Barnes,Are you referring to diamond paste on a leather wheel, as described onthelist by Tom Smithwick some time ago? Or is there a way to go to diamondpastewithout the powered wheel. I know I've been using that wheel systemwith agreen honing compound with wonderful results. I demo'd that system(called itthe Barnes-Smithwick system) at our local gathering in October andseveralothers have since built similar set-ups. Is there enough additional benefitwiththe diamond paste to make it worth purchasing the paste at a cost ofabout $40per can?Thanks,Harry Boyd George W. Barnes wrote: Hate to argue, but my vote would go to sharpening with diamond paste.Untilyou've tried that I doubt you know what sharp really is.George Steve Stillabower wrote: Hi Guys, What is this scary sharp a couple of you have mentioned? I recallhearingof it before, but can't recall specifics. TIA Steve Steve and Julie Stillabower, Indianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net from Canerods@aol.com Mon Nov 16 20:07:05 1998 Subject: Non-rodmaking? Used N.Z. book All, Only somewhat cane rod related. Sorry! Over the weekend I was digging through a used bookstore's stacks andfound abook from 1967, published in New Zealand. Titled "Lord Suffer Me to CatchaFish" by A.R. Mills. Written about the authors experiences in fishing N.Z. from 1917 (?) on up. The author briefly talks about his rods - he liked 10.5' - 2 piece. Any of you Kiwi's know of the book? Comments? Don Burns from saltwein@swbell.net Mon Nov 16 20:59:48 1998 PAA27817 Subject: Re: First impressions ...will let you know how it goes offlist..the first day was certainly an eyeopener...and yes, i will "keepmine blades very sharp"jean Jean, I hope you will share your insights on the list. You may be able toopen our eyes to some new or different techniques. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from sshorb@ozip.net Mon Nov 16 21:53:48 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-55785U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Mon, 16 Nov 1998 21:54:21 -0600 Subject: Gaps I finished planing six strips to straight triangles today, then Iwrapped them together. There are small gaps between strips at a goodnumber of the nodes, apparently related to the node flattening. Is thisnormal or do I need to get them to fit better. Will this be correctedwhen I do the taper planing? If it is the flattening that caused this,did I flatten them too much. They are flat from edge to edge at thenode. Fortunately, this is practice (no cost) cane if I screwed it uptoo bad. Skip from rclarke@eou.edu Mon Nov 16 22:28:37 1998 Subject: Re: Gaps Skip, I think you will find that the node area is the most difficult to geta flush fitting for the splines. I have started to heat and press mynodes, along with some filing, and I noticed a big difference on the gaps(I couldn't find any on the last section I glued up). You may want to heatand press your nodes, or get civilized (unlike myself) and go nodeless. BTW, I use the stovetop to heat the node area and rush out to the garage tofit in my vise. Works great for me! Also, if you are talking about the rough planing versus final planing, youmost likely will have more gaps in your rough planed splines than in thefinal planed versions that you have taken more time to create. At leastthat has been my experience. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Skip Shorb Subject: GapsDate: Monday, November 16, 1998 7:55 PM I finished planing six strips to straight triangles today, then Iwrapped them together. There are small gaps between strips at a goodnumber of the nodes, apparently related to the node flattening. Is thisnormal or do I need to get them to fit better. Will this be correctedwhen I do the taper planing? If it is the flattening that caused this,did I flatten them too much. They are flat from edge to edge at thenode. Fortunately, this is practice (no cost) cane if I screwed it uptoo bad. Skip from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Mon Nov 16 22:53:56 1998 ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: First impressions Hang in there Jean. You can do it. If building a bamboo rod is a littlescary, don't think about it. Think about splitting the cane. That's notto difficult a task. Just have to get enough to make a rod. And theydon't have to be perfect the first time. The planing will take care of anybut the to thin strips. Just do your best. Think about heat treating.It's just like baking; except easier. You don't have to mix anything andhey, if some come out overdone, cook up a new batch. You didn't ruin therod, just a few pieces of cane. Planing probably is more scary than any other task of rod building. Butheck, it's just whittling. So what if you have to plane 8 or 10 strips toget your rod. Just do your best. Gluing is just slopping on some glue andwrapping the bundle of splits with string. Pick a glue with a long potlife and take your time. If you're are uncomfortable at any time, wipe theglue off and start over. But heck, gluing is easy. It's just like thestuff they teach in kindergarten. Straighten the blank as best you can and hang it up to cure. The worst isover. Whether you buy your hardware or make it yourself, once you havetheblank, the rest is easy. Anywhere along the way, you can back up and tryagain. I believe you've said you had built plastic rods. The rest is justlike building them. You're better off than I was when I started my firstcane rod. I didn't even have the experience of building plastic rods andhere I am working on my fifth. If you'll look at it this way, you'll see that you can't fail. You willmake mistakes on the little tasks but that's the way we learn. Successisn't achieved without failure, it's achieved in spite of it. He whohasn't failed, hasn't tried. The key is to do your best, learn from yourmistakes don't worry about building a flyrod. Split cane, heat treatbamboo, plane bamboo, glue cane, bind that cane (tote that bale). At theend of all these easy tasks, you'll find a beautiful, great casting cane rod. Good building,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.comi know my limitations and have started a class (last wednesday)withart weiler in n.j. my somewhat flip suggestion of "just do it", iscertainly not for me, unless i have mucho direction. i WISH i could beso confident, but, alas...i'm just a female afterall..(only kidding),but i WOULD be more comfortable in the kitchen, except that's not howi'll get a bamboo rod built...will let you know how it goes offlist..the first day was certainly an eyeopener...and yes, i will "keepmine blades very sharp" jean from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Mon Nov 16 22:58:07 1998 ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Great List I will echo that emphatically! Regards and thanks,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com PS The most important tool that I found was the Rodmakers List. Idon't believe I would have started except for this resource. Thank yougentleman, once again. from saweiss@flash.net Mon Nov 16 23:23:42 1998 Subject: Re: One Very Necessary Thing Hi Guys (and Gals),Whilst out tweaking my sorry excuse for a beveller, I neglected to followbasic, common sense rule of bamboo;WEAR LEATHER GLOVES OR OTHER FINGER/HAND PROTECTION!!!!I've now got a dandy new 1/2" slice on my left index finger from a splinethat went zzzziiipppppping thru the beveller :-( Not deep, but enoughblood to make a rather interesting color scheme on 1 spline Blood, sweat and tears in every rod. Try and do that with plastic!Steve from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Tue Nov 17 00:18:49 1998 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id TAA12297 for ;Tue, 17 Nov 1998 19:18:51+1300 Subject: Re: Mystery Rod from 105 Victoria S. Westminster Carston , A &N C S L would be the Army and Navy Co-op Society Ltd . They were at105Victoria street between 1902 and 1939. They made a number of rods over15feet .The reel may give a closer idea as to age if it has a name on it , butrelatively few of the wooden reels did. A good lead can be the materialused brassand aluminium reels ( and the brass ones are very collectible) but I couldbe wrong and John Cooper may have a better idea. I have several older rods with eyes mounted on the adjacent faces , mainlyMilward rods similar to what you describe. I think I may have some spareheavy eyes with a white liner but yours sound and look to be a littledifferent . If you need any contact me off list. Iank At 11:18 PM 16/11/98 +0100, you wrote:Yet another satisfied customer has trusted me to restore a rod, and boywhat a rod. It is a 3 piece, 15 feet twohanded rod, bought second handsome42 years ago. It is NOT a flyrod, nor is it an ordinary spin rod. Alsoincluded was a wooden reel, with two handles, like a flyreel. I presume itis a trotting reel. Inscribed in the brass and rubber butt cap is: A. & N.C.S.L makers105 Victoria S.. Westminster The eyes a very thin, of a peculiar construction with the feet not placedon the same strip. I have enclosed an embarrasing amateurish drawing. regards, Carsten Jorgensen Dania Flyrods Guess the rod is english and prop. at least fifty years old. John Cooper,if You read this, could you, or anyone else, give some info on this rod?Could it be a trotting rod? The client wants it restored, inclusive of all 142 intermediate wrappings(OH LORD) Attachment Converted: C:\EUDORA\MysteryR.jpg from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Tue Nov 17 00:18:52 1998 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id TAA12315 for ;Tue, 17 Nov 1998 19:18:55+1300 Subject: Re: Non-rodmaking? Used N.Z. book Don, The " Antiquarian Angler" catalogue ( a really great guide on fishing books Reminiscences of a Lake Taupo angler since 1914 . He lists it as having avalue of $40 - $55 (A) . Published in 1967 . Taupo fishing tends to be streamer flys swung down stream on fairly bigrivers for rainbows in the 4 - 8 lb range ( used to be bigger in the 1920's)and even today is usually fished with weight 7-9 and rods of 9 foot plus.Itinvolves wading up to the chest and trying to cast 50 to 70 feet , usuallyusing a forward taper line. Not usually my type of fishing but I am buildinga Dickerson 8015 8 foot , weight 7 , to try for this type of fishing. As a general comment it is very difficult to find a rod in NZ under weight5or under 8 feet . .. Local traditions. Iank At 09:05 PM 16/11/98 EST, you wrote:All, Only somewhat cane rod related. Sorry! Over the weekend I was digging through a used bookstore's stacks andfound abook from 1967, published in New Zealand. Titled "Lord Suffer Me toCatch aFish" by A.R. Mills. Written about the authors experiences in fishing N.Z. from 1917 (?) on up. The author briefly talks about his rods - he liked 10.5' - 2 piece. Any of you Kiwi's know of the book? Comments? Don Burns from frankc@webspan.net Tue Nov 17 06:58:37 1998 Subject: Straighting 6E421E34DB52715B1FC8D44A" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 6E421E34DB52715B1FC8D44A I have just glued up my first three rods and had a twist in all threetips. I did not see them with the glue and binding thread on when theglue was wet and had a very difficult time removing the glue withoutloosing the flats. I was able to remove the twists but have blanks thathave some 6 to 12 inch bends on the last half of two of the three tips.I have made a few attempts to straighten them but have not beensuccessful. Several months ago I saw a post from a list member with astraightening method using your planning form and your wife's clothesiron but I can't seem to find it in the archives. Anyone able to tellme where I can find the info. Does anyone have the archived information without all the unreadablecomputer garbage, duplication of information and non fly rodinformation? I suspect that many of us beginners could make better useof all the great information without burdening the list with questionsthat have been asked and answered many times before. Frank --------------6E421E34DB52715B1FC8D44A begin: vcardfn: FRANKn: ;FRANKemail;internet: frankc@webspan.net end: vcard --------------6E421E34DB52715B1FC8D44A-- from arnold_jeff@hotmail.com Tue Nov 17 07:38:26 1998 Tue, 17 Nov 1998 05:37:52 PST Subject: List Problems??? I keep getting dumped from the list. Is the problem in my set or is the list experiencing problems? ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from Canerods@aol.com Tue Nov 17 07:44:13 1998 Subject: Re: Non-rodmaking? Used N.Z. book In a message dated 11/16/98 10:24:24 PM Pacific Standard Time,iank@nelson.planet.org.nz writes: The " Antiquarian Angler" catalogue ( a really great guide on fishingbooks Reminiscences of a Lake Taupo angler since 1914 . He lists it as havingavalue of $40 - $55 (A) . Published in 1967 . Taupo fishing tends to be streamer flys swung down stream on fairlybigrivers for rainbows in the 4 - 8 lb range ( used to be bigger in the1920's)and even today is usually fished with weight 7-9 and rods of 9 foot plus.Itinvolves wading up to the chest and trying to cast 50 to 70 feet ,usuallyusing a forward taper line. Not usually my type of fishing but I ambuildinga Dickerson 8015 8 foot , weight 7 , to try for this type of fishing. As a general comment it is very difficult to find a rod in NZ underweight5or under 8 feet . .. Local traditions. Iank Ian Thanks for the feedback. You're correct about the storyline. I haven't hadtime to do more than skim a few pages, but the author has a well- developedsense of humor from what I read. I guess I got a good deal too - paid $6. Don from destinycon@mindspring.com Tue Nov 17 07:54:59 1998 Subject: Re: Straighting At 08:00 AM 11/17/98 -0500, you wrote:I have made a few attempts to straighten them but have not beensuccessful. Several months ago I saw a post from a list member with astraightening method using your planning form and your wife's clothesiron but I can't seem to find it in the archives. Anyone able to tellme where I can find the info.Frank I think it was Max...Home Page:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from rmoon@ida.net Tue Nov 17 08:01:35 1998 Subject: Re: Straighting Frank Caruso wrote: I have just glued up my first three rods and had a twist in all threetips. I did not see them with the glue and binding thread on when theglue was wet and had a very difficult time removing the glue withoutloosing the flats. I was able to remove the twists but have blanks thathave some 6 to 12 inch bends on the last half of two of the three tips.I have made a few attempts to straighten them but have not beensuccessful. Several months ago I saw a post from a list member with astraightening method using your planning form and your wife's clothesiron but I can't seem to find it in the archives. Anyone able to tellme where I can find the info. Max Satoh's home page illustrates the process. I can't find thereference,but Max is on the list and will probably reply personally Be sure to sayDomo arigato to him if he does. Ralph ------------------------------------------------------------------------ FRANK FRANK Netscape Conference AddressNetscape Conference DLS ServerAdditional Information:Last NameFirst Name FRANK from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 17 08:21:41 1998 ix7.ix.netcom.com via smap(V1.3) Subject: polyurathane Has anyone tried the water based polyurathane sold by Woodcraft? In adriptube? Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from vbrannick@citlink.net Tue Nov 17 08:35:07 1998 citlink.net(8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA18835 for ;Tue, 17 Nov 1998 08:35:38 Subject: Re: Straighting Frank:I have to wonder how Orvis, Leonard, et al produce such seeminglystraight-straight sections.Absolute controlled conditions must be part of it, but having watched theprocedures at both companies, I came away still not knowing. The onlythingI remember at Orvis was the rolling of the wet glued up sections under aheavy flat board. The strips of course had previously been soaked in theformaldehyde-resin ? solution for impregnation - which must be thesource oftheir dark colored strips.Two suggestions that MIGHT prove helpful are;1. Use a different drive belt (smaller dia.) for the tips.2. Add a 1/2 lb. to the pulley weight on the second pass through.And then damp sponge off excess glue to try seeing the anytwists,etc. and attempt to straighten via hand counter-twisting, rollingonflat surface. laying in planing form with long heavy bar of steel (or other)on top, and Finally - doing a lot of swearing and sweating. -----Original Message----- Subject: Straighting I have just glued up my first three rods and had a twist in all threetips. I did not see them with the glue and binding thread on when theglue was wet and had a very difficult time removing the glue withoutloosing the flats. I was able to remove the twists but have blanks thathave some 6 to 12 inch bends on the last half of two of the three tips.I have made a few attempts to straighten them but have not beensuccessful. Several months ago I saw a post from a list member with astraightening method using your planning form and your wife's clothesiron but I can't seem to find it in the archives. Anyone able to tellme where I can find the info. Does anyone have the archived information without all the unreadablecomputer garbage, duplication of information and non fly rodinformation? I suspect that many of us beginners could make better useof all the great information without burdening the list with questionsthat have been asked and answered many times before. Frank from michael@wugate.wustl.edu Tue Nov 17 09:16:12 1998 Subject: Re: Digest? John seez... Does this list have a digest? I was a little taken aback by how manymessages I have accumulated in the last 18 hours. Yep, sure does!!! In the body of the message: SET RODMAKERS MAIL DIGESTHELP That should do it for you. The HELP command will get you a list of otherhelpful commands to customize your subscription. In addition, if youhaven't downloaded the RODMAKERS INFO/FAQ yet, now would be a goodtime todo it - lots of good information in there also. To download the INFO/FAQ,add to the above: INFO RODMAKERS Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Tue Nov 17 10:06:55 1998 ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 10:04:20 -0600 Subject: Re: polyurathane Onis,I haven't tried it, but I have noticed it. Sure sounds interesting. I'vebeen tempted to call some of the varnish manufacturers, or woodworkingexpertsto see what they might suggest for a finish on a rod. I have a suspicionthat's how many of us came to the glues we use.If no one else responds, why don't you try it out and let us know how itgoes. That should keep me from making a mess! A suggestion just like theoneabove led to the Southern Rodmakers Gathering! :-)Harry Onis Cogburn wrote: Has anyone tried the water based polyurathane sold by Woodcraft? In adriptube? from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Tue Nov 17 10:36:22 1998 (modemcable251.174.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.09.21.23.34)with SMTP id for Subject: Young Perfectionist and Sir D favorite BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_d4dFCQpVkMAU0Xp3X8uMZg)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_d4dFCQpVkMAU0Xp3X8uMZg) BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_2w3S43cht5m1tjcXUeHm1w)" --Boundary_(ID_2w3S43cht5m1tjcXUeHm1w) Has anyone built or cast both a Young Perfectionist and Wayne/Darryll SirDFavorite? How do they compare in action? I'm narrowing down my choiceof4-wts to build. Also, does anyone have a taper for a Young Princess? Ernest Schwiebertcallsit the rod that most closely sums up the following quote: "Once in his lifeeach flyfisher encounters a rod so perfectly suited to his personality,temperament and physical skills that it becomes a part of him." These areprobably the most glowing terms given any cane rod in Trout II. Sounds pretty good. Thanks in advance Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca --Boundary_(ID_2w3S43cht5m1tjcXUeHm1w) anyone built or cast both a Young Perfectionist and Wayne/Darryll Sir Favorite? How do they compare in action? I'm narrowing down my choiceof = to build. does anyone have a taper for a Young Princess? Ernest Schwiebert calls = rod that most closely sums up the following quote: "Once in his = flyfisher encounters a rod so perfectly suited to his personality, = and physical skills that it becomes a part of him." These are = most glowing terms given any cane rod in Trout II. pretty good. in advance Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca --Boundary_(ID_2w3S43cht5m1tjcXUeHm1w)-- --Boundary_(ID_d4dFCQpVkMAU0Xp3X8uMZg) mail).vcf" BEGIN:VCARDVERSION:2.1N:Nantel;Richard;;;FN:Richard Nantel (E-mail)ORG:Le groupe MENTOR;TITLE:TEL;WORK;VOICE:(514) 393- 3292TEL;HOME;VOICE:(514) 485-2287TEL;PAGER;VOICE:[1] (514) 111- 1111TEL;WORK;FAX:(514) 393-1483ADR;WORK:;;4374 Old Orchard Avenue;Monteal;Quebec;H4A 3B4;CanadaLABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:4374 Old Orchard =Avenue=3D0D=3D0AMonteal, Quebec H4A 3B4=3D0D=3D0ACanadaADR;HOME:;;4374 Old Orchard Avenue;Monteal;Quebec;H4A 3B4;CanadaLABEL;HOME;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:4374 Old Orchard =Avenue=3D0D=3D0AMonteal, Quebec H4A 3B4=3D0D=3D0ACanadaEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:richard.nantel@videotron.caREV:19980514T133343ZEND:VCARD --Boundary_(ID_d4dFCQpVkMAU0Xp3X8uMZg)-- from cmj@post11.tele.dk Tue Nov 17 10:44:33 1998 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0100 Subject: Davy Rigg Davy, could You please contact me off-list concerning an Army & Navy rodyou're restoring. regards, Carsten Jorgensen cmj@post11.tele.dk from gwbarnes@gwi.net Tue Nov 17 10:55:32 1998 Subject: Re: Scary Sharp? Harry Boyd wrote: Mr. Barnes,Are you referring to diamond paste on a leather wheel, Harry: First off, the name is George. When my Father called you Mister it wastime to standback. I still remember the day he first used the term with me. I was aboutfive andhis words were, "It takes a smart man to be a liar, Mister, and you're notthatsmart". Last time I lied to him! Yes I'm sold on diamond paste. Elgin used to sell it in various grades,loaded in asyringe. J&L has some grades packaged the same wat. A bit expensive butit lasts along time. I use it on a narrow (probably 3/8" wide) leather wheel, made from oldbelting and backed up by rivited plywood disks, when first sharpening acarbidetipped plane iron that has been rough shaped with a green stone. After thatIusually touch the irons up on a cheap 1" belt sander that has had thesanding beltreplaced with a leather belt. Woodcraft Supply and WoodworkersWarehouse used tohave these in their catalogs.I'm also sold on carbide. Recently finished four copies of a F. E. Thomas 6'- 8"rod, three for Christmas presents and one to make mistakes on for me. Allfortyeight strips were planed without resharpening. I did resharpen the bladeson botplanes before starting a 6' - 0" taper for 2 WT, but they were both stillcuttingwell. George from cmj@post11.tele.dk Tue Nov 17 11:02:08 1998 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0100 Subject: Sv: Young Perfectionist and Sir D favorite boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01BE1254.EB964800" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BE1254.EB964800 Richard wrote <Has anyone built or cast both a Young Perfectionist and = Wayne/Darryll Sir D Favorite? How do they compare in action? <I'm = narrowing down my choice of 4-wts to build. Yep, I confess to= favourite. The Perfectionist is, well, = soft, demanding - an extension of one´s =arm..............The Sir D is, well, perfect. = arm.......... My problem is, I love them both. I = compare and decide, which is best. I cannot choose. They are both = fishing tools. together with the Para 15/the Forcev the best rods I = ever tried. Take my advice: Make one of each. = the possibility of having one of all interésting rods is = of the prime reasons for building cane rods. Gotta figure out how to = convince SWMBO...... I could go on raving about 7 - = #4 being the perfect rods for trout, but am stopping right =now. regards, Jorgensen ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BE1254.EB964800-- from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Nov 17 11:06:48 1998 Subject: Re: Re: rod design Onis,The hinge is in the butt usually just below the ferrule and allows the rodwith a fast tip to flex into the butt somewhat in the casting and (I guess)transfers more power to the tip at the end of the cast much like aparabolic.RegardsHank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Nov 17 11:07:02 1998 Subject: Re: Weight of long cane rods Richard,The older people were enthusiastic re:91/2' for 6/7 wgt. rods becausetheir 14' 9wgts were tiring them out and reducing their time on stream. :-)Cheers,Hank.P.S. I'm 67 and cut and split my own wood, shovel out horse stalls, hunthounds 2x a week, hike 8 miles round trip to fish all day etc., etc. I stilldon't like cane rods over 8' in the higher line wgts. Some others do. It'sjust a matter of preference. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Nov 17 11:10:35 1998 Subject: Re: Re: rod design Yeah!Hank. from tfinger@services.state.mo.us Tue Nov 17 11:36:25 1998 Subject: Re: Weight of long cane rods Hank wrote: The older people were enthusiastic re:91/2' for 6/7 wgt. rods becausetheir 14' 9wgts were tiring them out and reducing their time on stream.:- )Cheers,Hank.P.S. I'm 67 and cut and split my own wood, shovel out horse stalls,hunthounds 2x a week, hike 8 miles round trip to fish all day etc., etc. I stilldon't like cane rods over 8' in the higher line wgts. Some others do. It'sjust a matter of preference. It may involve the properties of individual rods and casting styles. Some, including me, find it much less tiring to cast a good cane rod of 8-1/2 or 9 feet than to use the staccato whiplash casting motion necessary to get too- stiff graphite to bend. (The term "good" above means good overall quality and suitability to an individual's casting style). I have, however, no experience fishingcane rods longer than 9 feet or heavier than 8 weight. Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Tue Nov 17 13:04:54 1998 (modemcable251.174.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.09.21.23.34)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Young Perfectionist and Sir D favorite BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_UNZVnuQeFPECh8qESdcD+A)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_UNZVnuQeFPECh8qESdcD+A) Hi Carsten, Thanks for your observations. We are a fortunate bunch to be able to buildand fish so many rods. We have the luxury of selecting a faster or slower 4wt to fish our favourite stream, depending on how we feel that day. I'mstill trying to pick the taper for my first rod but know that with time,I'll likely get to the point where I'll have a rod for every mood. The Youngand Sir D continue to be tied for first place in my 4wt, first rod selectionshootout. Thanks again, Richard-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu JorgensenSent: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 12:06 PM Subject: Sv: Young Perfectionist and Sir D favorite Richard wrote Hi Carsten, Thanks so many rods. We have the luxury of selecting a faster or slower 4 wt to fishour favourite stream, depending on how we feel that day. I'm still trying topick the taper for my first rod but know that with time, I'll likely get to thepoint where I'll have a rod for every mood. The Young and Sir D continue to betied shootout. Thanks again, Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Carsten JørgensenSent: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 12:06 Young Perfectionist and Sir D favorite Richard wrote <Has anyone built or cast both a Young Perfectionist and Wayne/Darryll Sir D Favorite? How do they compare in action?<I'm narrowing down my choice of 4-wts to build. Yep, I confess to both:Have cast an original "the Perfectionist" during a long, glorious favourite. The Perfectionist is, well, perfect. Its light, soft, demanding - an extension of one´s arm..............The Sir D is, well, perfect. It´s light, steely, easily mastered - an extension of one´s arm.......... My problem is, I love them both. Icannot compare and decide, which is best. I cannot choose. They are both marvellous fishing tools. together with the Para 15/the Forcev thebest rods I have ever tried. Take my advice: Make one of each.After all, the possibility of having one of all interésting rods is probably one of the prime reasons for building cane rods. Gotta figure out how to convince SWMBO...... I could go on raving about 7 -7,5´ rods #4 being the perfect rods for trout, but am stopping right now. regards, Carsten Jorgensen --Boundary_(ID_UNZVnuQeFPECh8qESdcD+A)-- from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Tue Nov 17 13:18:42 1998 0600 Subject: Re: rod design Onis Cogburn wrote: Sounds like sage advice to me, but what's a "hinge"? I've found manyreferences but no explanation. Onis, I saved this back in July. It made enough sense that I kept it alongwith the tapers I've gleaned from this list. Hope it helps, and hope Darryldoesn't mind my re-posting what he said in response to a question fromJohnChanner.Harry A hinge is an area on the rod that will bend more relative tothe rod immediately on each side. What it does is allows therod to lift the line up off the water at the beginning of a roll cast,and directs the energy of a cast slightly up or horizontal to thewater surface. Without a hinge the rod tends to rip the line offof the water surface - spooking every fish within 25 yards, anddirect the energy of the cast slightly downward. Without thehinge I tended to get severe shock waves at the top of the loopduring a roll cast. Now a good caster who really knows his rodand practices casting with it a lot can compensate for all of this.I was with that 6' 3" modified to be faster, without the hinge taper,except the shock waves at the top of the loop. They stayed nomatter what I did. Basically a hinge is a relatively quick rise in the stress curve 15to 20 inches from the front of the handle - on a 7' rod. Dependingon the length and how fast the rod is, this may change. I doubta hinge is needed on a 9' rod, and may not be needed on an 8'rod, unless it is very fast. On rods shorter than 7' 6" I would alwaysput it in, unless you are never going to roll cast. To achieve this quick rise in the stress curve can involve severalthings depending on the length of the rod and weight of the linebeing cast. On a longer, heavier line weight rod a reduction inthe rate of increase of the taper will do it. In other words, thediameter will be larger, just not as much as it had been increasing.On shorter rods it may involve the diameter staying the same overa 5 inch section, and on a 5' 2 weight it may involve actually reducingthe diameter. Placement of a hinge I feel depends on the length of the rod. Myplaying around with tapers seems to point towards about 60 to65 percent of the total length of the rod should be betweenthe tip and the hinge. Some rod designs already have the functionality of a hinge builtin. The way the stress curve rises near the handle in a Paul Youngparabolic takes care of what a hinge would do. The slownessof a Garrison, and most Orvis rods makes a hinge unnecessary. Darryl Hayashida from rmoon@ida.net Tue Nov 17 13:20:05 1998 Subject: Re: rod design Hank, Sir D, Wayne or any one else. What you were describing soundssuspiciouslylike the Castle Connel Kick Taper. I made a couple a long time ago and the"kick" they deliver is unique. I did decide however, that the rod was bettersuited to shorter quick casts, and particularly beneficial to thosebeginners andothers who do not have a lot of physical power. The CCKT diameters dropjustbelow the female ferrule and swell a bit just above the male. Just curious Ralph from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Nov 17 13:40:56 1998 Subject: Re: rod design In a message dated 11/17/98 11:26:13 AM Pacific Standard Time,fbcwin@fsbnet.com writes: Hope it helps, and hope Darryldoesn't mind my re-posting what he said in response to a question fromJohnChanner. No problem there, but Whew! I wrote all that? I'm glad you savedit, because I didn't. I knew I had written something on hinges whenI was getting obsessive about taper design. My mental health isimproving, really it is.... Darryl from ljrp@penn.com Tue Nov 17 13:54:22 1998 Subject: Re: Weight of long cane rods Fox or coon hounds??? FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: Richard,The older people were enthusiastic re:91/2' for 6/7 wgt. rods becausetheir 14' 9wgts were tiring them out and reducing their time on stream.:- )Cheers,Hank.P.S. I'm 67 and cut and split my own wood, shovel out horse stalls,hunthounds 2x a week, hike 8 miles round trip to fish all day etc., etc. I stilldon't like cane rods over 8' in the higher line wgts. Some others do. It'sjust a matter of preference. from WILHELM.RON@epamail.epa.gov Tue Nov 17 15:32:18 1998 #26439)with ESMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; 12 #26438)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; withNovell_GroupWise; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:14:35 -0500 Subject: RE: Young Perfectionist and Sir D favorite -Reply Hello; I have heard so much good about the Sir D taper. Can anyone refer meto the Sir D taper if it is available? Thanks ron from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Nov 17 16:26:44 1998 Subject: Re: Young Perfectionist and Sir D favorite -Reply In a message dated 11/17/98 1:34:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,WILHELM.RON@epamail.epa.gov writes: I have heard so much good about the Sir D taper. Can anyone refer meto the Sir D taper if it is available? In it's basic form it's in Wayne Cattanach's book, in the backin his list of tapers, the 7' 0" 4 DT 2 piece. I just added.002 to the 5, 10 and 15 inch stations because I didn't likehow high the stress curve went at those points. It's probablynot neccessary, but I like it that way. Darryl Hayashida (aka Sir D) from maxs@geocities.co.jp Tue Nov 17 16:49:46 1998 geocities.co.jp(8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with SMTP id HAA04298 for; Wed, 18Nov 1998 07:49:41 +0900 (JST) Subject: RE: Straighting Frank, on my web page. http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html Enjoy it! from bills@nwlink.com Tue Nov 17 16:59:39 1998 Subject: Re: Young Perfectionist and Sir D favorite -Reply After all the praises of the Sir D, I too was curious of the taper. Heck, Ialready made two Sir Ds and did not even know it... did not allow enoughforthe additional space occupied by the glue. I must agree with the positivecomments bestowed on the rod. In fact I was using the rod for sea runcutthroat a couple of weeks ago and accidentally hooked into a 31 inchsteelhead (not recommended prey for a 4 wt - even the Sir D). The fishwasnot new to freshwater but the Sir D still managed to land her in about 8minutes. I now have two more of WC's 7' 0" DT4 in production and havesuccessfully held the taper to dimensions as designed by WC. Will beinteresting to see the difference in the Sir D and the original design. Bythe way, WCs 3 piece 7' 0" DT4 rod, same basic taper, is a nice rod as well.Bill-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Young Perfectionist and Sir D favorite -Reply In a message dated 11/17/98 1:34:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,WILHELM.RON@epamail.epa.gov writes: I have heard so much good about the Sir D taper. Can anyone refer meto the Sir D taper if it is available? In it's basic form it's in Wayne Cattanach's book, in the backin his list of tapers, the 7' 0" 4 DT 2 piece. I just added.002 to the 5, 10 and 15 inch stations because I didn't likehow high the stress curve went at those points. It's probablynot neccessary, but I like it that way. Darryl Hayashida (aka Sir D) from WILHELM.RON@epamail.epa.gov Tue Nov 17 17:01:51 1998 #26439)with ESMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; 12 #26438)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; withNovell_GroupWise; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:55:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Young Perfectionist and Sir D favorite -Reply -Reply Sir D; Thanks for the info. This will be my next rod. Ron from jpr@primeline.com Tue Nov 17 17:16:52 1998 Subject: Bamboo rodmaking only? I'm new to the list so please indulge me here. Is this list primarily(exclusively?) for makers of fine bamboo rods? I love bamboo rods and that is what I learned to fish on at the Orvis FFSchool in Manchester in 1971. However, I am in the process of building acouple of graphite rods and need some help. It involves my choices forguides. I am building a 5wt 9' rod from a G.Loomis GL4 blank. I am tornbetween snake guides, single foot guides and single foot Fuji guides. Asalesperson at the local fly shop argued against any type of single footguides because he felt, that despite claims to the contrary, one gets moredistance with ordinary snake guides. His reasoning was that if the line isperpendicular to the guide as in a single foot guide its flow thru theguide is impeded. Any comments on his theory? -John from gwr@seanet.com Tue Nov 17 18:16:13 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA17222 for; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo rodmaking only?/guide response boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003D_01BE1245.AE25AA60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BE1245.AE25AA60 John, There are several negatives to the modern SF Fuji guides. Number oneisaesthetics - though I like them and often use them on custom rods, they dolook funny. Some have said that the fly rods look like over- extendedspinning rods. Two - expense. Three - they ice up super fast on cold days.Do not use them on rods that will be fished in sub-freezing weather. Four-they tear out more readily than standard snakes (only one wrap) so Iadvocate the use of epoxy rather than varnish to ensure a long lasting rod.As for not casting better, I'd argue that your salesman is full ofhooey. I am not a distance caster and never want to be, but many of myclients do like to fish far out and they love the guides and have told metime and again that my rods have improved their distance relative to afactory rod built on the same blank. The high end Fujis (Cermets) are justslick as can be and they don't groove like so many of today's snakes do. Ifyou are going to build a number of rods, try two built on the same blankand use cermets on one and snakes on another. You'll note a difference.Have your salesman cast the same two rods and you'll probably convincehimthat SF guides have their place - though certainly not on classically styledrods. As for the list, it is cane only, but guide questions are relevant foreveryone. Hope my answer was too. I do not sell Fuji guides so I hope this won't be interpreted ascommercial in any sense. Best, Russ Golden Witch Rods - "Tools For Natural Philosophy"Golden Witch Technologies, Inc. - "The Golden Age Is Now"gwr@seanet.comhttp://www.goldenwitch.com -----Original Message----- Subject: Bamboo rodmaking only? I'm new to the list so please indulge me here. Is this list primarily(exclusively?) for makers of fine bamboo rods? I love bamboo rods and that is what I learned to fish on at the Orvis FFSchool in Manchester in 1971. However, I am in the process of building acouple of graphite rods and need some help. It involves my choices forguides. I am building a 5wt 9' rod from a G.Loomis GL4 blank. I am tornbetween snake guides, single foot guides and single foot Fuji guides. Asalesperson at the local fly shop argued against any type of single footguides because he felt, that despite claims to the contrary, one gets moredistance with ordinary snake guides. His reasoning was that if the line isperpendicular to the guide as in a single foot guide its flow thru theguide is impeded. Any comments on his theory? -John ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BE1245.AE25AA60 name="Golden Witch.vcf" filename="Golden Witch.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDN:Gooding;John;R.FN:Golden WitchORG:Golden WitchTITLE:Rod Maker &c.TEL;WORK;VOICE:(425) 787- 6599TEL;PAGER;VOICE:noneTEL;WORK;FAX:noneADR;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A;Lynnwood;WA;98037;USALABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A=3D0D=3D0ALynnwood, WA =98037=3D0D=3D0AUSAURL:noneURL:http://www.goldenwitch.comEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:gwr@seanet.comEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BE1245.AE25AA60-- from mjnorris@monmouth.com Tue Nov 17 18:25:27 1998 shell.monmouth.com(8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA16371 for ;Tue, 17 Nov 1998 19:24:45 Subject: Re: Bamboo rodmaking only? As far as my understanding after the line gets through the stripping guidethe other guides aren't as important. I really don't think it would mattertoo much as long as the guides are big enough to prevent the line fromslapping against the guides or the blank. If others feel differenetly Iwould like to here there opinion as anything to help make getting distancewould be a help to me. I fish mostly saltwater where distance can meanthedifference between watching the fish and getting a fly to them . from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Nov 17 19:14:04 1998 Subject: Re: Gaps Skip Nodes! You still have nodes in them strips? That isthe problem. FYI - nodes are the root of all evil in rodmaking. Chris On Mon, 16 Nov 1998 21:55:42 -0600, Skip Shorb wrote: I finished planing six strips to straight triangles today, then Iwrapped them together. There are small gaps between strips at a goodnumber of the nodes, apparently related to the node flattening. Is thisnormal or do I need to get them to fit better. Will this be correctedwhen I do the taper planing? If it is the flattening that caused this,did I flatten them too much. They are flat from edge to edge at thenode. Fortunately, this is practice (no cost) cane if I screwed it uptoo bad. Skip from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Tue Nov 17 19:26:05 1998 (modemcable251.174.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.09.21.23.34)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Bamboo rodmaking only? Hi John, I've made rods on Loomis, Orvis and Fenwick blanks and have tried thethreetypes of guides you mentioned below. My least favourite were the singlefootFujis. I never seem to have been able to shoot long distances with those.I'd say it's a tie for shootability between the single foot guides and theregular snake guides. Going oversize makes a difference along withattachingyour stripper guide off the line of the other guides, tilted a bit towardsyour stripping hand. IMHO. Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: Bamboo rodmaking only? I'm new to the list so please indulge me here. Is this list primarily(exclusively?) for makers of fine bamboo rods? I love bamboo rods and that is what I learned to fish on at the Orvis FFSchool in Manchester in 1971. However, I am in the process of building acouple of graphite rods and need some help. It involves my choices forguides. I am building a 5wt 9' rod from a G.Loomis GL4 blank. I am tornbetween snake guides, single foot guides and single foot Fuji guides. Asalesperson at the local fly shop argued against any type of single footguides because he felt, that despite claims to the contrary, one gets moredistance with ordinary snake guides. His reasoning was that if the line isperpendicular to the guide as in a single foot guide its flow thru theguide is impeded. Any comments on his theory? -John from emiller257@dataflo.net Tue Nov 17 19:37:12 1998 wddataflo.dataflo.net(8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA17914 for ;Tue, 17 Nov 1998 19:44:38 Subject: Re: Young Perfectionist and Sir D favorite Richard Nantel wrote: Has anyone built or cast both a Young Perfectionist and Wayne/DarryllSir DFavorite? How do they compare in action? I'm narrowing down my choiceof4- wts to build. Also, does anyone have a taper for a Young Princess? Ernest Schwiebertcallsit the rod that most closely sums up the following quote: "Once in hislifeeach flyfisher encounters a rod so perfectly suited to his personality,temperament and physical skills that it becomes a part of him." Theseareprobably the most glowing terms given any cane rod in Trout II. Sounds pretty good. Thanks in advance Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca ---------------------------------------------------------------Has anyone built or cast both a Young Perfectionist and Wayne/DarryllSir D Favorite? How do they compare in action? I'm narrowing down mychoice of 4-wts to build. Also, does anyone have a taper for a Young Princess? Ernest Schwiebertcalls it the rod that most closely sums up the following quote: "Oncein his life each flyfisher encounters a rod so perfectly suited to hispersonality, temperament and physical skills that it becomes a part ofhim." These are probably the most glowing terms given any cane rod inTrout II. Sounds pretty good. Thanks in advance Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca --------------------------------------------------------------- Rich, I cast a PHYPerfectionist built by a friend earlier this year and it has a parabolic action that allows the rod to flex into the grip. I'm in the process of building one right now. I beleive that the Cattanach 7'4wt is fairly fast action.It's next on my list.Ed M. from emiller257@dataflo.net Tue Nov 17 19:41:01 1998 wddataflo.dataflo.net(8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA17974 for ;Tue, 17 Nov 1998 19:48:26 Subject: Re: Scary Sharp? George W. Barnes wrote: Harry Boyd wrote: Mr. Barnes,Are you referring to diamond paste on a leather wheel, Harry: First off, the name is George. When my Father called you Mister it wastime to standback. I still remember the day he first used the term with me. I wasabout five andhis words were, "It takes a smart man to be a liar, Mister, and you're notthatsmart". Last time I lied to him! Yes I'm sold on diamond paste. Elgin used to sell it in various grades,loaded in asyringe. J&L has some grades packaged the same wat. A bit expensive butit lasts along time. I use it on a narrow (probably 3/8" wide) leather wheel, made from oldbelting and backed up by rivited plywood disks, when first sharpening acarbidetipped plane iron that has been rough shaped with a green stone. Afterthat Iusually touch the irons up on a cheap 1" belt sander that has had thesanding beltreplaced with a leather belt. Woodcraft Supply and WoodworkersWarehouse used tohave these in their catalogs.I'm also sold on carbide. Recently finished four copies of a F. E. Thomas6' - 8"rod, three for Christmas presents and one to make mistakes on for me.All fortyeight strips were planed without resharpening. I did resharpen the bladeson botplanes before starting a 6' - 0" taper for 2 WT, but they were both stillcuttingwell. George George, could you explain the reference to carbide. Do you havea source for carbide tipped plane irons? Please advise. Ed M. from sshorb@ozip.net Tue Nov 17 20:01:57 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-55785U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:02:29 -0600 Subject: Re: Gaps Chris; That's what I'm finding out, but think of the shock if I startednodeless and then tried one with nodes. Besides, I always seem to dothings the hard way the first time or so. Skip PS. Nodeless probably has it's special evils for a beginner also. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Nov 17 21:42:24 1998 Subject: Re: RE: Bamboo rodmaking only? Richard,I agree on the oversized guides, have been doing it for some time now.Asfar as offsetting the stripper tha may be hard to do on a 6 sided cane rod.Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Nov 17 21:42:44 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Bamboo rodmaking only?/guide response Russ,I've been criticised for putting large snakes on my rods whereupon Isuggested that they didn't understand co-efficients of friction vis-a- vissmall tubes going through large tubes or rings. Your comments on singlefootguides and Fujis are well taken.Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Nov 17 21:44:22 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Weight of long cane rods Fox from jczimny@dol.net Tue Nov 17 21:57:32 1998 -0500 Subject: RE: Gaps =_NextPart_000_01BE127C.06BF5640" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE127C.06BF5640 -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Gaps Skip Nodes! You still have nodes in them strips? That isthe problem. FYI - nodes are the root of all evil in rodmaking. Chris[J. C. Zimny] Behind every great evil is the lack of nodes.Z. from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Tue Nov 17 21:59:29 1998 (modemcable251.174.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.09.21.23.34)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Bamboo rodmaking only? Hi Hank. The guy who intially put this post on the list is building somegraphite rods, not bamboo. Richard -----Original Message----- FISHWOOL@aol.com Subject: RE: Bamboo rodmaking only? Richard,I agree on the oversized guides, have been doing it for some time now.Asfar as offsetting the stripper tha may be hard to do on a 6 sided cane rod.Regards,Hank. from srosenc@together.net Tue Nov 17 22:41:07 1998 Subject: Re: Straighting Orvis impregnation was done with Bakelite Corp. Formula #BRL1100 mixed with water. Soaked in fluid and then oven cured. Steve Vince Brannick wrote: Frank:I have to wonder how Orvis, Leonard, et al produce such seeminglystraight-straight sections.Absolute controlled conditions must be part of it, but having watchedtheprocedures at both companies, I came away still not knowing. The onlythingI remember at Orvis was the rolling of the wet glued up sections under aheavy flat board. The strips of course had previously been soaked in theformaldehyde-resin ? solution for impregnation - which must be thesource oftheir dark colored strips.Two suggestions that MIGHT prove helpful are;1. Use a different drive belt (smaller dia.) for the tips.2. Add a 1/2 lb. to the pulley weight on the second pass through.And then damp sponge off excess glue to try seeing the anytwists,etc. and attempt to straighten via hand counter-twisting, rollingonflat surface. laying in planing form with long heavy bar of steel (orother)on top, and Finally - doing a lot of swearing and sweating. -----Original Message-----From: Frank Caruso Date: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 8:16 AMSubject: Straighting I have just glued up my first three rods and had a twist in all threetips. I did not see them with the glue and binding thread on when theglue was wet and had a very difficult time removing the glue withoutloosing the flats. I was able to remove the twists but have blanks thathave some 6 to 12 inch bends on the last half of two of the three tips.I have made a few attempts to straighten them but have not beensuccessful. Several months ago I saw a post from a list member with astraightening method using your planning form and your wife's clothesiron but I can't seem to find it in the archives. Anyone able to tellme where I can find the info. Does anyone have the archived information without all the unreadablecomputer garbage, duplication of information and non fly rodinformation? I suspect that many of us beginners could make betteruseof all the great information without burdening the list with questionsthat have been asked and answered many times before. Frank from saweiss@flash.net Tue Nov 17 23:14:50 1998 Subject: Re: Young Perfectionist and Sir D favorite boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0034_01BE1277.B486E4A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01BE1277.B486E4A0 -----Original Message-----From: Richard Nantel Date: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 12:07 PMSubject: RE: Young Perfectionist and Sir D favorite Hi Carsten, Thanks for your observations. We are a fortunate bunch to be able to =build and fish so many rods. We have the luxury of selecting a faster or =slower 4 wt to fish our favourite stream, depending on how we feel that =day. I'm still trying to pick the taper for my first rod but know that =with time, I'll likely get to the point where I'll have a rod for every =mood. The Young and Sir D continue to be tied for first place in my 4wt, =first rod selection shootout. Thanks again, Richard Does anyone have the taper for the Young Perfectionist and wouldn't =mind submitting it to the list?Steve ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01BE1277.B486E4A0 -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Tuesday, November 17, 1998 12:07 PMSubject: RE: Young= Perfectionist and Sir D favorite Carsten, Thanks for your observations. We are a fortunate bunch to = build and fish so many rods. We have the luxury of selecting a = slower 4 wt to fish our favourite stream, depending on how we feel = I'm still trying to pick the taper for my first rod but know that = I'll likely get to the point where I'll have a rod for every mood. = and Sir D continue to be tied for first place in my 4wt, first rod = shootout. Thanks again, Richard Does anyone have the taper for the Young Perfectionist and = list?Steve ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01BE1277.B486E4A0-- from saweiss@flash.net Tue Nov 17 23:22:31 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Weight of long cane rods Fox Catch & release? from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Tue Nov 17 23:30:36 1998 (5.5.2232.9) Subject: New to list Hello everyone from a new Aussie list member.I'm still a rank amateur having only built one rod (Cattanach 2pc 7' DT4which casts beautifully) although I must admit that I fell in with somepretty bad company early on and have become a heretic of the nodelesspersuasion. I was still naive and impressionable when I encountered the corruptinginfluence of one Tony Young (I believe you know him)about a year ago.Disguising his ulterior motives beneath a veneer of support, advice,patience and enthusiasm he turned me to the dark side of nodelessconstuction. I am now so deeply psychologically scarred that I amactuallygrateful to him for this act of spiritual vandalism.Joining the list was another one of his suggestions so I wonder what perillies in wait for me here. Still, my soul is already lost so who cares, aslong as I get to keep on making bamboo fly rods. May the trout be with you Mike Roberts from saweiss@flash.net Tue Nov 17 23:33:32 1998 Subject: Re: Scary Sharp? I'm also sold on carbide George,Awhile back you gave a source for carbide strips, but I could not contactthe website, www.industry.net/jlindsupply. Is it correct?Steve from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Nov 17 23:54:18 1998 Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:52:53 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: New to list On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, Roberts, Michael wrote: Hello everyone from a new Aussie list member.I'm still a rank amateur having only built one rod (Cattanach 2pc 7' DT4which casts beautifully) although I must admit that I fell in with somepretty bad company early on and have become a heretic of the nodelesspersuasion. I was still naive and impressionable when I encountered the corruptinginfluence of one Tony Young (I believe you know him)about a year ago.Disguising his ulterior motives beneath a veneer of support, advice,patience and enthusiasm he turned me to the dark side of nodelessconstuction. I am now so deeply psychologically scarred that I amactuallygrateful to him for this act of spiritual vandalism.Joining the list was another one of his suggestions so I wonder whatperillies in wait for me here. Still, my soul is already lost so who cares, aslong as I get to keep on making bamboo fly rods. May the trout be with you Mike Roberts It's all lies and scandal. Just wait till I get you out on that boat of mine ;-) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from cmj@post11.tele.dk Wed Nov 18 06:12:31 1998 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0100 Subject: Sv: New to list Welcome aboard, Michael. Are You referring to Tony "The 'orrible Aussie" Young? If so, it is worsethan You can imagine.The man suffers, as far as I know, from a horrible disease calledparaholicicism. It is hard todiagnose, very contageous and, as far as I am informed, the is no cure. Ontop of that, as ifthis wasn't enough, the man is something of a heretic, speaking his mindwith no respect for hissuperiors (which he supposedly accept no one to be, just equals) and, byGod, he even has theaudacity of recommending planingforms, made out of wood!!! As You will see, making his aquintance could endanger your mortal soul,canevise - so beware. regards, Carsten Jorgensen Denmark (far from Aussieland) from destinycon@mindspring.com Wed Nov 18 06:44:49 1998 Subject: Re: New to list At 01:52 PM 11/18/98 +0800, you wrote: It's all lies and scandal. Just wait till I get you out on that boat of mine ;-) Tony Tony,Whats the old saying? I think one doth protest too strongly......andmaybe a little too quickly also.Gary H. from jwt4639@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Wed Nov 18 07:15:18 1998 with ESMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:15:15 EST Subject: Re: New to list Hi Rodmakers, My name is Jim Tefft and I have been lurking on this list for a few days. Ilivein Rochester NY, in the land of 'where the skies are cloudy all day' most ofthewinter and have worked for a local Institute of higher education for thepast 17years. As some of you know I have been a member of the Flyfish list which is alistsimiliar to this of flyfisher persons. It's ironic the parallel in people andpersonalities between the makers (you all ) and the users. Some of whichare onein the same. Tony Young should probably get to know Steve Hiner seems tobe apossible evil twin situation. Back to lurking and info collecting mode. Mike , looks like you all havedone agreat job in setting the list etc. Jim Tefft Heidt wrote: At 01:52 PM 11/18/98 +0800, you wrote: It's all lies and scandal. Just wait till I get you out on that boat ofmine ;-) Tony Tony,Whats the old saying? I think one doth protest too strongly......andmaybe a little too quickly also.Gary H. from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Wed Nov 18 07:23:52 1998 IAA25045 Subject: RE: New to list Jeff, how do you log onto the FLYFISH list. Seems it could be interesting.Thanks.Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 8:18 AM Subject: Re: New to list Hi Rodmakers, My name is Jim Tefft and I have been lurking on this list in Rochester NY, in the land of 'where the skies are cloudyall day' most of thewinter and have worked for a local Institute of highereducation for the past 17years. As some of you know I have been a member of the Flyfish listwhich is a listsimiliar to this of flyfisher persons. It's ironic theparallel in people andpersonalities between the makers (you all ) and the users.Some of which are onein the same. Tony Young should probably get to know SteveHiner seems to be apossible evil twin situation. Back to lurking and info collecting mode. Mike , looks likeyou all have done agreat job in setting the list etc. Jim Tefft Heidt wrote: At 01:52 PM 11/18/98 +0800, you wrote: It's all lies and scandal. Just wait till I get you outon that boat ofmine ;-) Tony Tony,Whats the old saying? I think one doth protesttoo strongly......andmaybe a little too quickly also.Gary H. from hhholland@erols.com Wed Nov 18 08:02:13 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo rodmaking only? Hi John,I'm manager of a local fly shop, and have made many graphite rods forcustomers, friends, and a few for myself. I've tried all the guides and formy own rods (graphite, remember) or for customers who ask forrecommendations I go with single foot - not Fuji. The main reason isweight. Keeping weight down in the tip section does improve performance.Picture a diving board. Bounce off it into the water, and the board willcontinue to oscillate for a while -- lost energy. Now tie a heavy weight tothe end of the board and bounce again. It will continue to oscillate foreven longer and with a greater sweep, and you won't bounce as high. Evenmore lost energy. The same effects apply to the tip of your fly rod. Thesingle foot guides are lighter than the others, and, of course, have onlyhalf the thread wraps and epoxy finish to further reduce weight. I agreewith Russ's comment that you want to use epoxy rather than varnish onthewraps. Their main disadvantage is that they are not as sturdy as snakes,but just try not to step on them and they'll be fine. Regarding other comments, if you are making a rod for distance casting,definitely oversize the guides from the Loomis recommendation. Theowner ofthe fly shop and I do a lot of saltwater fly fishing. He's a world-classcaster and never gets the boat closer than 60 to 70 feet from the target --you HAVE to make long casts. It clearly helps to use single foot guides,oversize them, and offset the stripper and the next guide. Remember,we'retalking about graphite distance rods - not bamboo small- stream troutrods.Offset the stripper almost 45 degrees toward the left (if you cast withyourright hand) and split the difference between it and the third guide, whichshould be on-line, for the second guide. Hope these comments help. Hank H.-----Original Message----- Subject: Bamboo rodmaking only? I'm new to the list so please indulge me here. Is this list primarily(exclusively?) for makers of fine bamboo rods? I love bamboo rods and that is what I learned to fish on at the Orvis FFSchool in Manchester in 1971. However, I am in the process of building acouple of graphite rods and need some help. It involves my choices forguides. I am building a 5wt 9' rod from a G.Loomis GL4 blank. I am tornbetween snake guides, single foot guides and single foot Fuji guides. Asalesperson at the local fly shop argued against any type of single footguides because he felt, that despite claims to the contrary, one gets moredistance with ordinary snake guides. His reasoning was that if the line isperpendicular to the guide as in a single foot guide its flow thru theguide is impeded. Any comments on his theory? -John from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Wed Nov 18 08:19:15 1998 ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap(V1.3) Subject: Re: polyurathane May have to do that but at 26 bucks a quart, I sure want it to work. Mydrip tube is set up to take a quart and a half so I would need to get aquart and a pint and then thin it with about a pint of water(if it's thesame as regular). Thats about 45 bucks (tax included) to charge it. Ithink I will peruse the web for info and see what the general consensus is.Oh well, nothing ventured, nothing gained and unless you try somethingnew, you learn nothing. I'll let you know what I find our or if I try it,how it works. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com Onis,I haven't tried it, but I have noticed it. Sure sounds interesting. I'vebeen tempted to call some of the varnish manufacturers, or woodworkingexpertsto see what they might suggest for a finish on a rod. I have a suspicionthat's how many of us came to the glues we use.If no one else responds, why don't you try it out and let us know how itgoes. That should keep me from making a mess! A suggestion just likethe oneabove led to the Southern Rodmakers Gathering! :-)Harry Onis Cogburn wrote: Has anyone tried the water based polyurathane sold by Woodcraft? In adriptube? from Ed.Estlow@co.hennepin.mn.us Wed Nov 18 08:25:18 1998 1998 14:24:37 UT v4.6.2 (651.2 6-10-1998)) Subject: Re: Young Perfectionist and Sir D favorite -Reply This prompts a question. Darryl, have you built the three piece WC 7'-0"4wt with your modification? If so, does it perform similarly to the twopiece? Is there a three piece Sir D Favorite that airline travelers canhave? (Yes, I know tow piece rods can be taken on airplanes, too. I'm justthinking compactness and convenience.) Best regards,-Ed Estlow bills@nwlink.com on 11/17/98 05:06:50 PM Subject: Re: Young Perfectionist and Sir D favorite -Reply After all the praises of the Sir D, I too was curious of the taper. Heck, Ialready made two Sir Ds and did not even know it... did not allow enoughforthe additional space occupied by the glue. I must agree with the positivecomments bestowed on the rod. In fact I was using the rod for sea runcutthroat a couple of weeks ago and accidentally hooked into a 31 inchsteelhead (not recommended prey for a 4 wt - even the Sir D). The fishwasnot new to freshwater but the Sir D still managed to land her in about 8minutes. I now have two more of WC's 7' 0" DT4 in production and havesuccessfully held the taper to dimensions as designed by WC. Will beinteresting to see the difference in the Sir D and the original design. Bythe way, WCs 3 piece 7' 0" DT4 rod, same basic taper, is a nice rod aswell.Bill-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Young Perfectionist and Sir D favorite -Reply In a message dated 11/17/98 1:34:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,WILHELM.RON@epamail.epa.gov writes: I have heard so much good about the Sir D taper. Can anyone refer meto the Sir D taper if it is available? In it's basic form it's in Wayne Cattanach's book, in the backin his list of tapers, the 7' 0" 4 DT 2 piece. I just added.002 to the 5, 10 and 15 inch stations because I didn't likehow high the stress curve went at those points. It's probablynot neccessary, but I like it that way. Darryl Hayashida (aka Sir D) from cattanac@wmis.net Wed Nov 18 09:04:50 1998 (8.8.5/SCO5) with SMTP id PAA08483 for ;Wed, 18 Nov 1998 15:07:51GMT 09:55:40 -0500 Subject: RE: Young Perfectionist and Sir D favorite -Reply =_NextPart_000_01BE12D9.9992F1E0" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE12D9.9992F1E0 FYI for the new folks - because of the interest in the SirD - awhile =back tapers for a 7' 6" & 6' 3" series of the same character were added =(I think Jerry has them at his sight) - according to some clients the =airlines are cracking down on the 32" carryon ruling - so 3 piece =versions are rather popular with the travel crowd Wayne------ =_NextPart_000_01BE12D9.9992F1E0 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE12D9.9992F1E0-- from anglport@con2.com Wed Nov 18 09:43:36 1998 Subject: Re: Weight of long cane rods At 10:41 PM 11/17/98 EST, you wrote:Fox Fox??? from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed Nov 18 09:57:40 1998 (5.5.2407.0) I just got a copy of Orvis's impregnation process patent. According to thepatent they soak the glued up blank in water for a day or two to dissolveout the salts and other water soluble chemicals and get water throughoutthecells then soak in bakelite solution which uses the water, in the soakedbamboo, to penetrate throughout the bamboo and become and intregal partofthe rod. My question is why couldn't somebody do this with a water solublepolyurethane varnish and end up with a rod that is truly waterproof andnotas heavy as the orvis bakelite rods. Granted it would probably stiffen upthe rod some but it's a much thinner (last fine woodworking) varnish thanregular polyurethane varnish an maybe it wouldn't stiffen it up as bad. Christmas came early yesterday and my Morgan mill showed up. Finally amoreefficient way to hand plane the meat off. After having spent 7-8 yearshandcarving violins and basses with planes for 8 hours a day, it's just drudgeryand no art. The curves, tapers and last few thousands is where the art istome. from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Wed Nov 18 10:20:52 1998 Subject: Re: polyurathane At 08:15 18/11/98 -0600, you wrote:May have to do that but at 26 bucks a quart, I sure want it to work. Mydrip tube is set up to take a quart and a half so I would need to get aquart and a pint and then thin it with about a pint of water(if it's thesame as regular). Thats about 45 bucks (tax included) to charge it. Ithink I will peruse the web for info and see what the general consensusis.Oh well, nothing ventured, nothing gained and unless you try somethingnew, you learn nothing. I'll let you know what I find our or if I try it,how it works. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com Onis, Talked over water based polyurathane products with the shop where I getmyother coatings - their comment " its junk". Having never tried it - I'mnot sure.This was about a year or so ago. Maybe the stuff has improved - but maybenot.I need about 3 qts. for my dip set up - too expensive to give it a shot. Don from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed Nov 18 10:37:32 1998 (5.5.2407.0) Subject: RE: polyurethane theres a real good article and test in the last issue of fine woodworkingonwater based poly's. Whats good and whats bad and what the drawbacks are. ----------From: Don Andersen[SMTP:dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca] Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 12:18 AM Subject: Re: polyurathane At 08:15 18/11/98 -0600, you wrote:May have to do that but at 26 bucks a quart, I sure want it to work. Mydrip tube is set up to take a quart and a half so I would need to get aquart and a pint and then thin it with about a pint of water(if it's thesame as regular). Thats about 45 bucks (tax included) to charge it. Ithink I will peruse the web for info and see what the general consensusis.Oh well, nothing ventured, nothing gained and unless you try somethingnew, you learn nothing. I'll let you know what I find our or if I tryit,how it works. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com Onis, Talked over water based polyurathane products with the shop where I getmyother coatings - their comment " its junk". Having never tried it - I'mnot sure.This was about a year or so ago. Maybe the stuff has improved - butmaybenot.I need about 3 qts. for my dip set up - too expensive to give it a shot. Don from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Nov 18 11:12:26 1998 0600 Subject: Re: Young Perfectionist and Sir D favorite -Reply Ed,Haven't heard from you in a while. Good to see you active. I don'tpresume to speak for Darryl, but I've cast both the 2 and 3piece Sir D'sbuiltaccording to St. Wayne's original specs. Both cast equally as well.I build 3 piece for practical reasons. My oven is too short for 2 piecestrips! Harry Boyd Ed.Estlow@co.hennepin.mn.us wrote: This prompts a question. Darryl, have you built the three piece WC 7'-0"4wt with your modification? If so, does it perform similarly to the twopiece? Is there a three piece Sir D Favorite that airline travelers canhave? (Yes, I know tow piece rods can be taken on airplanes, too. I'm justthinking compactness and convenience.) Best regards,-Ed Estlow bills@nwlink.com on 11/17/98 05:06:50 PM cc: (bcc: Ed Estlow/Hennepin) Subject: Re: Young Perfectionist and Sir D favorite -Reply After all the praises of the Sir D, I too was curious of the taper. Heck, Ialready made two Sir Ds and did not even know it... did not allow enoughforthe additional space occupied by the glue. I must agree with the positivecomments bestowed on the rod. In fact I was using the rod for sea runcutthroat a couple of weeks ago and accidentally hooked into a 31 inchsteelhead (not recommended prey for a 4 wt - even the Sir D). The fishwasnot new to freshwater but the Sir D still managed to land her in about 8minutes. I now have two more of WC's 7' 0" DT4 in production and havesuccessfully held the taper to dimensions as designed by WC. Will beinteresting to see the difference in the Sir D and the original design. Bythe way, WCs 3 piece 7' 0" DT4 rod, same basic taper, is a nice rod aswell.Bill-----Original Message-----From: SalarFly@aol.com Date: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 2:33 PMSubject: Re: Young Perfectionist and Sir D favorite -Reply In a message dated 11/17/98 1:34:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,WILHELM.RON@epamail.epa.gov writes: I have heard so much good about the Sir D taper. Can anyone refer meto the Sir D taper if it is available? In it's basic form it's in Wayne Cattanach's book, in the backin his list of tapers, the 7' 0" 4 DT 2 piece. I just added.002 to the 5, 10 and 15 inch stations because I didn't likehow high the stress curve went at those points. It's probablynot neccessary, but I like it that way. Darryl Hayashida (aka Sir D) from maxs@geocities.co.jp Wed Nov 18 11:16:09 1998 geocities.co.jp(8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with SMTP id CAA08248 for; Thu, 19Nov 1998 02:16:03 +0900 (JST) Subject: Nyatex Epoxy (10E007/10EH008) Hi, If someone knows some mail order source for the subject on the web,pleaseadvice.I know one on rodmakers page but it does not have web nor fax. Telephoneisnot convenient a little.Thanks, Max Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from sniderja@email.uc.edu Wed Nov 18 11:19:57 1998 Subject: impregnation "I just got a copy of Orvis's impregnation process patent. According to thepatent they soak the glued up blank in water for a day or two to dissolveout the salts and other water soluble chemicals and get water throughoutthecells then soak in bakelite solution which uses the water, in the soakedbamboo, to penetrate throughout the bamboo and become and intregal partofthe rod. My question is why couldn't somebody do this with a water solublepolyurethane varnish and end up with a rod that is truly waterproof andnotas heavy as the orvis bakelite rods. Granted it would probably stiffen upthe rod some but it's a much thinner (last fine woodworking) varnish thanregular polyurethane varnish an maybe it wouldn't stiffen it up as bad." Interesting idea. Typically, when preparing plant tissues for infiltrationwith paraffin for cutting micrometer-thin sections, to remove the waterinthe plant tissues and replace them with alcohols, etc., we go from watertohigher and higher concentrations of alcohol, using various times along theway to be certain that the water (and other stuff) is replaced with alcohol(or whatever, formaldehyde, etc.). Could one not rig up several dip tubesof various concentrations of water-based polyurethane (beginning withwater), and move the glued up bamboo from one container to another (overtime), replacing the wter with the poly.? Don't know what this might do tothe nodeless people who use Titebond II which is water resistent but notwater proof?Just a thought--don't blow me totally away with flames! (just a littledistance!).J. Snider from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed Nov 18 11:35:22 1998 (5.5.2407.0) Subject: RE: impregnation same thought passed through my mind when I read the patent. They use a30%solution of bakelite to water or formaldehyde and the water in the cellscarry the solution into each cell and then heat cure at a low temperaturetodrive out the water. ----------From: Jerry Snider[SMTP:sniderja@email.uc.edu] Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 9:16 AM Subject: impregnation "I just got a copy of Orvis's impregnation process patent. According tothepatent they soak the glued up blank in water for a day or two to dissolveout the salts and other water soluble chemicals and get waterthroughoutthecells then soak in bakelite solution which uses the water, in the soakedbamboo, to penetrate throughout the bamboo and become and intregalpart ofthe rod. My question is why couldn't somebody do this with a watersolublepolyurethane varnish and end up with a rod that is truly waterproof andnotas heavy as the orvis bakelite rods. Granted it would probably stiffen upthe rod some but it's a much thinner (last fine woodworking) varnishthanregular polyurethane varnish an maybe it wouldn't stiffen it up as bad." Interesting idea. Typically, when preparing plant tissues for infiltrationwith paraffin for cutting micrometer-thin sections, to remove the waterinthe plant tissues and replace them with alcohols, etc., we go from watertohigher and higher concentrations of alcohol, using various times alongtheway to be certain that the water (and other stuff) is replaced withalcohol(or whatever, formaldehyde, etc.). Could one not rig up several dip tubesof various concentrations of water-based polyurethane (beginning withwater), and move the glued up bamboo from one container to another(overtime), replacing the wter with the poly.? Don't know what this might dotothe nodeless people who use Titebond II which is water resistent but notwater proof?Just a thought--don't blow me totally away with flames! (just a littledistance!).J. Snider from tfinger@services.state.mo.us Wed Nov 18 11:44:39 1998 Subject: Re: water-based polyurethanes I haven't used any polyurethanes on a rod, but on woodworking projects the big problem with the water-based polys is their tendency to foam and leave bubble marks in the finish. Hard to say if his would be a problem in a dip tube. The first coat may also raise the grain of most woods a bit. With respect to other polys, the water-based ones I've tried have about the same consistency and seem to have about the same durability. They are milky in appearance, but dry clear. In fact, in some respects they almost dry too clear and don't impart the usually desireable amber tone of most other clear finishes. Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Nov 18 11:47:22 1998 via smap (4.1) 9:50:11 PST Subject: RE: Impregnation Patrick, You mentioned that Orvis used formaldahyde as a carrier during their impregnation process. Maybe that explains the nasty chemical smellemitted whenever I open the tube up on my 1972 era Battenkill. Yuck!! Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from maxs@geocities.co.jp Wed Nov 18 11:50:05 1998 geocities.co.jp(8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with SMTP id CAA16078 for; Thu, 19Nov 1998 02:49:58 +0900 (JST) Subject: Urushi Sir D, I finished Urushi varnishing for two rods (Payne200 & ShenandoahSupreme)and uploaded pictures on the web. I used it on varnishing reel seatseither. A little nice. Max Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail:maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from GLohkamp@aol.com Wed Nov 18 11:50:50 1998 Subject: Re: Nyatex Epoxy (10E007/10EH008) Max l tried to e-mail you off list but dont think copiied your address right .Anyway l was trying to locate a source for the urushi varnish l learnedabouton your web page , prehaps we could do some trading ? Gary Lohkamp from Ed.Estlow@co.hennepin.mn.us Wed Nov 18 12:25:48 1998 1998 18:25:06 UT v4.6.2 (651.2 6-10-1998)) Subject: The Bamboo Fly Rod Homepage All, It seems to me that I stumbled across a TBFR homepage, other than theirGeocities page, a few weeks (or months) back, perhaps when DarrylHayashedamentioned posting pix of a golden trout. Does anyone know the URL? Thanks in advance.Regards,-Ed Estlow from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Nov 18 12:28:11 1998 Subject: Re: RE: Impregnation/Leonard What process did Leonard use to impregnate their rods because they arenoteven close to being as heavy as an orvis? Maybe if you want to use thisprocess then you should try and find out this process. Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Nov 18 12:35:44 1998 Subject: Re: Re: polyurathane/Heirloom Brand There are many different water based polies out there and most are crapbut ifound one that is really some nice stuff called Heirloom Poly. If you canfind it try it out. I am goin to do some test strips of it this winter.Bret from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Nov 18 12:43:22 1998 via smap (4.1) 10:45:31 PST Subject: RE: The Bamboo Flyrod Homepage The homepage is: http://www.thebambooflyrod.com/ Darryl did a good job, nice pictures and format. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from lsgorney@rs01.kings.edu Wed Nov 18 12:47:17 1998 8.7/8.7) id NAA39864 for Subject: Re: The Bamboo Fly Rod Homepage Ed, from my California links page athttp://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/fishing.htmtryhttp://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/2888/index2.htmlLen Gorney lsgorney@kings.eduhttp://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/index.htm from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed Nov 18 12:50:27 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2);Wed, 18Nov 1998 13:59:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Is the idea to still soak the blank in water first or to just go straight into waterbased poly? On 18 Nov 98, at 7:57, Coffey, Patrick W wrote: I just got a copy of Orvis's impregnation process patent. According to thepatent they soak the glued up blank in water for a day or two to dissolveout the salts and other water soluble chemicals and get waterthroughoutthe cells then soak in bakelite solution which uses the water, in thesoaked bamboo, to penetrate throughout the bamboo and become andintregalpart of the rod. My question is why couldn't somebody do this with awatersoluble polyurethane varnish and end up with a rod that is trulywaterproof and not as heavy as the orvis bakelite rods. Granted it would>probably stiffen up the rod some but it's a much thinner (last finewoodworking) varnish than regular polyurethane varnish an maybe itwouldn't stiffen it up as bad. Christmas came early yesterday and my Morgan mill showed up. Finally amore efficient way to hand plane the meat off. After having spent 7-8years hand carving violins and basses with planes for 8 hours a day, it'sjust drudgery and no art. The curves, tapers and last few thousands iswhere the art is to me. Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.munrorodco.com from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed Nov 18 12:50:30 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2);Wed, 18Nov 1998 13:59:35 -0500 Subject: Bench I am in the process of finishing a new bench. I had bench envy after the past conversation. Anyhow...any tips for finishing the top with poly?Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277- 4510 http://www.munrorodco.com from briansr@point-net.com Wed Nov 18 12:57:24 1998 0000 Subject: Elmers Glue Hi ListIf you want to try a good working glue that allows adjustment time andhasa reasonable shelf life. Try Elmers White Glue or any other ordinary whitewood glue.Mix 2 parts white glue with 3 parts water. Yes that's right!!!!Now here comes the secret ingrediant that will far surpasses ANY uracor epoxyAdd one crushed Viagra pill and mix vigouressly.After gluing up thesplines, drink the rest of the mixture ( while standing WELL back from thework bench)then go upstairs to SWMBO & enjoy. Remember to be VERYcarefullwhen negotiating corners in the hallway unless you're handy at repairinghole in the drywall.Cheers Brian from morten@flash.net Wed Nov 18 12:57:34 1998 Subject: Re: polyurathane I have been using a polyurethane from Home Depot with very good results.I'ts called "PRO finisher Oil Modified Polyurethane" by Parks. I'ts only$ 16 per gallon. This brand also have a "Waterborne" waterbasepolyurethene for $ 29 per gallon. I may try it when my present polyu.goes bad.RegardsMorten LovstadSpring TXhttp://www.flash.net/~morten/index.htm Don Andersen wrote: At 08:15 18/11/98 -0600, you wrote:May have to do that but at 26 bucks a quart, I sure want it to work. Mydrip tube is set up to take a quart and a half so I would need to get aquart and a pint and then thin it with about a pint of water(if it's thesame as regular). Thats about 45 bucks (tax included) to charge it. Ithink I will peruse the web for info and see what the general consensusis.Oh well, nothing ventured, nothing gained and unless you try somethingnew, you learn nothing. I'll let you know what I find our or if I try it,how it works. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com Onis, Talked over water based polyurathane products with the shop where I getmyother coatings - their comment " its junk". Having never tried it - I'mnot sure.This was about a year or so ago. Maybe the stuff has improved - butmaybe not.I need about 3 qts. for my dip set up - too expensive to give it a shot. Don from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed Nov 18 13:03:04 1998 (5.5.2407.0) Subject: RE: according to the patent the blank is soaked in water not a solvent firstandthe into the impregnating medium ----------From: Jon Lintvet[SMTP:jlintvet@clarityconnect.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 1:50 PM Subject: Re: Is the idea to still soak the blank in water first or to just go straight into waterbased poly? On 18 Nov 98, at 7:57, Coffey, Patrick W wrote: I just got a copy of Orvis's impregnation process patent. According tothepatent they soak the glued up blank in water for a day or two todissolveout the salts and other water soluble chemicals and get waterthroughoutthe cells then soak in bakelite solution which uses the water, in thesoaked bamboo, to penetrate throughout the bamboo and become andintregalpart of the rod. My question is why couldn't somebody do this with awatersoluble polyurethane varnish and end up with a rod that is trulywaterproof and not as heavy as the orvis bakelite rods. Granted itwouldprobably stiffen up the rod some but it's a much thinner (last finewoodworking) varnish than regular polyurethane varnish an maybe itwouldn't stiffen it up as bad. Christmas came early yesterday and my Morgan mill showed up. Finallyamore efficient way to hand plane the meat off. After having spent 7-8years hand carving violins and basses with planes for 8 hours a day,it'sjust drudgery and no art. The curves, tapers and last few thousands iswhere the art is to me. Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.munrorodco.com from Ed.Estlow@co.hennepin.mn.us Wed Nov 18 13:03:58 1998 1998 19:03:16 UT v4.6.2 (651.2 6-10-1998)) Subject: RE: The Bamboo Flyrod Homepage Now why didn't I think of that!! Thanks much!Best,-Ed mcdowellc@lanecc.edu on 11/18/98 12:47:32 PM Subject: RE: The Bamboo Flyrod Homepage The homepage is: http://www.thebambooflyrod.com/ Darryl did a good job, nice pictures and format. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Nov 18 13:08:23 1998 via smap (4.1) 11:11:10 PST Subject: RE: Bench Jon, Try a coat of varnish, then sand lightly, then put a coat of polyurethane. The varnish adheres to the surface better then poly, but the poly is harder and therefore wears better. With the two used in conjuction you get the best of both worlds. Are you really going to put a finish on your benchtop? Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from ljrp@penn.com Wed Nov 18 13:26:42 1998 Subject: Re: Weight of long cane rods from Dick Fogel...........That is fun!!!!!!!!!1 Art Port wrote: At 10:41 PM 11/17/98 EST, you wrote:Fox Fox??? from ljrp@penn.com Wed Nov 18 13:34:15 1998 Subject: Re: Weight of long cane rods from Dick Fogel Thats Fun FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: Fox from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Nov 18 13:51:40 1998 Thu, 19 Nov 1998 03:51:30 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Bench On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, Jon Lintvet wrote: I am in the process of finishing a new bench. I had bench envy after the past conversation. Anyhow...any tips for finishing the top with poly? Jon,unless you really have your heart set on a poly/varnish finish I'd suggest thinking about using boiled linseed oil.Linseed seems to toughen the timber and the boiled type dries hard. An advantage of this is you can make notes directly on the bench top and just sand them off later or leave them there and do an anual re-level and scrape of the bench top and re-apply the linseed. Needless to say it's easy to fix up scratches etc too if you want the bench to look good. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from CALucker@aol.com Wed Nov 18 14:17:53 1998 Subject: Re: Impregnation/Leonard In a message dated 11/18/98 10:31:18 AM Pacific Standard Time,Grhghlndr@aol.com writes: Leonard used a really simple process. They bought the blanks fromPartridge,I think. Could have been Sharpes. If you wnat I can look at an old Leonardcatalogue and get the name where I wrote it in the margin. My advice, call Sharpes in Aberdeen or John Dickson and Sons in Edinburgh,orPartridge ( I think they are in Croydon sp., but I am probably wrong. Farlowor Hardy will direct you) You might as well ask someone who has done the impregnation for Leonardthanask someone to repeat what they have read somewhere. Primary researchversussecondary research. Chris Lucker from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Nov 18 14:18:07 1998 Thu, 19 Nov 1998 04:17:53 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: New to list I'm a very misunderstod and sensitive person...really. I bet Steve Hiner is too. ;-) Tony On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, Jim Tefft wrote: Hi Rodmakers, My name is Jim Tefft and I have been lurking on this list for a few days. Ilivein Rochester NY, in the land of 'where the skies are cloudy all day' mostof thewinter and have worked for a local Institute of higher education for thepast 17years. As some of you know I have been a member of the Flyfish list which is alistsimiliar to this of flyfisher persons. It's ironic the parallel in people andpersonalities between the makers (you all ) and the users. Some of whichare onein the same. Tony Young should probably get to know Steve Hiner seemsto be apossible evil twin situation. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from thramer@presys.com Wed Nov 18 14:26:26 1998 0000 Subject: Tom Morgan Could someone supply Tom Morgans e-mail address?A.J.Thramer from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed Nov 18 14:33:04 1998 (5.5.2407.0) Subject: RE: Tom Morgan rodsmiths@imt.nethttp://www.troutrods.com ----------From: A.J.Thramer[SMTP:thramer@presys.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 12:34 PM Subject: Tom Morgan Could someone supply Tom Morgans e-mail address?A.J.Thramer from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Nov 18 14:33:34 1998 Thu, 19 Nov 1998 04:33:26 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Sv: New to list wugate.wustl.edu id OAA10370 On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Carsten_J=F8rgensen?= wrote: Welcome aboard, Michael. Are You referring to Tony "The 'orrible Aussie" Young? If so, it is worsethan You canimagine. The man suffers, as far as I know, from a horrible disease calledparaholicicism. It ishard to diagnose, very contageous and, as far as I am informed, the is nocure. On top of that,as if this wasn't enough, the man is something of a heretic, speaking hismind with no respect and, by God, he evenhas the audacity of recommending planingforms, made out of wood!!! As You will see, making his aquintance could endanger your mortal soul,canevise - so beware. regards, Carsten Jorgensen Denmark (far from Aussieland) OK, I think it's time to put this into perspective. Mike assured me he was over the age of 18 and could handle it. I warned him but he insisted I let him try WC's para 15, well, mike the poor bugger was just hooked from there on. I tried to offer him a way out but you know how how it is, the first initial surge of bliss, then the insatiable need for more.It wasn't long before Mike took on that wild eyed look all too common to those who depart from a normal life style and forsake their loved ones when you are driven by an uncontrolable force force to create shavings.Hell, I even felt *slight* guilt when ever I got that look from Mike's better half, but it soon passed (the guilt, not the look). Basicaly, Mike's a big boy and if he wants to make nodeless paras, let him I say, he'll be all the better for it in the end. Welcom aboard Mike...heh, heh, heh. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from tom@cet-inc.com Wed Nov 18 14:43:29 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Bench Jon,If you want to get a little fancier than what Tony suggests. Make amixtureof boiled linseed oil, spar vanish, and turnpentine in equal parts. Applyand leave almost dry then wipe off. You can add several coats and get someshine if you want or stop with less. The turpentine aids in soaking into thewood, the spar can provide a little shine if you like. As with the oilalone, this finish can be redone at any time by lightly sanding andreapplying. I have this on my workbench made from slippery elm and amveryhappy with it. Also makes a nice finish on reel seats when more coats areadded and then polished. I think I also mentioned it on the list one time asa possible rod finish but I'm too happy with my dipped poly finish to try iton rods yet. Tom-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Bench On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, Jon Lintvet wrote: I am in the process of finishing a new bench. I had bench envyafter the past conversation. Anyhow...any tips for finishing the topwith poly? Jon,unless you really have your heart set on a poly/varnish finish I'dsuggest thinking about using boiled linseed oil.Linseed seems to toughen the timber and the boiled type dries hard. from dan_cooney@ibm.net Wed Nov 18 15:57:55 1998 (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA75398 for ;Wed, 18 Nov 1998 21:57:51GMT Subject: George L. Herter - Expert This message is a little out of date. I'm just getting caught up on mymail - been too busy fishing lately. False albacore are running at CapeLookout, North Carolina. We are having a really great season this year. As a kid growing up, I spent many hours poring over the Herter's catalog.My first flies were tied from an old gray paper back, dog-eared copy of theHerter's Fly Tying Guide that Dad had. So, when I read last week's posts by Art Port and Don Andersen aboutGeorgeLeonard Herter and his "how-to" books - I howled. It prompted me to getan old Herter's catalog down off of the shelf and look at some of George'sother titles. Don mentioned that he would like to have a copy of "How to live on $10.00/day." I think that the book Don wants actually may have beenentitled "How To Get Out Of The Rat Race & Live On $10 A Month." Don,this was before inflation - obviously. There was a sequel for thosepreferring a more sylvan, yet Spartan, life style: "How To Live In TheWoods On Pennies A Day." For the connoisseur he wrote "How To Make HowtoMake The Finest Wines At Home - In Old Glass Or Plastic Bottles For AsLittle As 10 Cents A Gallon" (Some title! Some wine!). I don't think George had a humble cell in his body. The catalogdescription of another of George's literary masterpieces - "George TheHousewife," reads: "Written by old George L. Herter and Berthe E. Herterwhose millions of readers have made them two of the world's most readauthors." Yeah Right! Unlike the father of our country, this George couldtell some real whoppers. Art, you are absolutely right George was the "World's Best Authority onEverything" - Definitely a true renaissance man! - - - at least that wasGeorge L.'s position. Thanks guys for a good laughDan Cooney from hhholland@erols.com Wed Nov 18 16:26:27 1998 Subject: Re: George L. Herter - Expert Dan,Just got back a week ago from Cape Lookout myself. Aren't those Albiesfun?!!!!!! Haven't tried them on bamboo yet -- don't have a rod that's upto it. One of these days, maybe.Hank H. -----Original Message----- Subject: George L. Herter - Expert This message is a little out of date. I'm just getting caught up on mymail - been too busy fishing lately. False albacore are running at CapeLookout, North Carolina. We are having a really great season this year. As a kid growing up, I spent many hours poring over the Herter's catalog.My first flies were tied from an old gray paper back, dog-eared copy oftheHerter's Fly Tying Guide that Dad had. So, when I read last week's posts by Art Port and Don Andersen aboutGeorgeLeonard Herter and his "how-to" books - I howled. It prompted me to getan old Herter's catalog down off of the shelf and look at some of George'sother titles. Don mentioned that he would like to have a copy of "How to live on $10.00/day." I think that the book Don wants actually may have beenentitled "How To Get Out Of The Rat Race & Live On $10 A Month." Don,this was before inflation - obviously. There was a sequel for thosepreferring a more sylvan, yet Spartan, life style: "How To Live In TheWoods On Pennies A Day." For the connoisseur he wrote "How To MakeHow toMake The Finest Wines At Home - In Old Glass Or Plastic Bottles For AsLittle As 10 Cents A Gallon" (Some title! Some wine!). I don't think George had a humble cell in his body. The catalogdescription of another of George's literary masterpieces - "George TheHousewife," reads: "Written by old George L. Herter and Berthe E. Herterwhose millions of readers have made them two of the world's most readauthors." Yeah Right! Unlike the father of our country, this George couldtell some real whoppers. Art, you are absolutely right George was the "World's Best Authority onEverything" - Definitely a true renaissance man! - - - at least that wasGeorge L.'s position. Thanks guys for a good laughDan Cooney from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Nov 18 16:36:21 1998 Subject: Re: The Bamboo Fly Rod Homepage In a message dated 11/18/98 10:50:37 AM Pacific Standard Time,lsgorney@rs01.kings.edu writes: Ed, from my California links page athttp://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/fishing.htmtryhttp://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/2888/index2.htmlLen Gorney lsgorney@kings.eduhttp://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/index.htm There is a new Bamboo Fly Rod web site. It's www.thebambooflyrod.com Darryl from gwbarnes@gwi.net Wed Nov 18 16:38:14 1998 Subject: Re: Scary Sharp? Ed Miller wrote: George, could you explain the reference to carbide. Do you have asource for carbide tipped plane irons? Please advise. Ed M. Ed: I cut the end off a plane iron with a thin abrasive cutter, braze the carbideto the iron,rough shape with a green stone, then shape and sharpen with a diamondimpregnated steeland finish with diamond paste. The only thing wrong with them, they singa funny littletune when cutting well. George from gwbarnes@gwi.net Wed Nov 18 16:38:18 1998 Subject: Re: Scary Sharp? Dr. Steven A. Weiss wrote: I'm also sold on carbide George,Awhile back you gave a source for carbide strips, but I could not contactthe website, www.industry.net/jlindsupply. Is it correct?Steve Steve: Don't think the address came from me. I've obtained my carbide from J&LIndustrial Supply. A search should veveal a WEB page as they seem a ratherprogressive company. George from gwbarnes@gwi.net Wed Nov 18 16:42:52 1998 Subject: Re: Gaps Spoken like a true genius! I have boxes of the damn things. Chris Bogart wrote: Skip Nodes! You still have nodes in them strips? That isthe problem. FYI - nodes are the root of all evil in rodmaking. Chris On Mon, 16 Nov 1998 21:55:42 -0600, Skip Shorb wrote: I finished planing six strips to straight triangles today, then Iwrapped them together. There are small gaps between strips at a goodnumber of the nodes, apparently related to the node flattening. Is thisnormal or do I need to get them to fit better. Will this be correctedwhen I do the taper planing? If it is the flattening that caused this,did I flatten them too much. They are flat from edge to edge at thenode. Fortunately, this is practice (no cost) cane if I screwed it uptoo bad. Skip from wbinn@michiana.org Wed Nov 18 16:43:20 1998 freenet.michiana.org (8.8.2/8.7.3(CICNet)) with ESMTP id RAA25543 for Subject: Re: Impregnation/Leonard Larry Foster, who was the last gereral manager of Leonard before the selloff, tells me that Sharpes was indeed the source for the Duracane seriesofblanks, but Walt Carpenter also did some (a limited amount) impregnation Winston Binney from lsgorney@rs01.kings.edu Wed Nov 18 17:07:02 1998 8.7/8.7) id RAA24976 for Subject: Re: The Bamboo Fly Rod Homepage Darryl,Yep, stumbled onto the NEW Bamboo Fly Rod Page after I posted myoriginalmessage. Thanks.Len Gorney lsgorney@kings.eduhttp://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/fishing.htm from swilson1@WHC.NET Wed Nov 18 17:08:50 1998 ; Subject: Re: Young Perfectionist and Sir D favorite There is a taper for a Young Perfectionist in Jack Howell's book. Scott Wilson from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Nov 18 17:12:21 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Impregnation/Leonard winston,it surprises me that Sharpes made these blanks for leonard as I have seenandcast sharpes and I don't think they even came close to the Duracanes. Couldthey have possibly used Leonard tapers and not their own. I believe thatthisis also where Bernard hills got a lot of his blanks that he used towardstheend of his career. I think this is what Bernard told me anyway.Bret from CALucker@aol.com Wed Nov 18 17:23:56 1998 Subject: Re: Impregnation/Leonard In a message dated 11/18/98 3:16:48 PM Pacific Standard Time,Grhghlndr@aol.com writes: The Leonard catalogue explained that the blanks were made to Leonardspecifications, whatever that means. It could mean that Leonard pickedtheSharpes tapers they approved of, or they gave Sharpes the templatenumbers. Chris from anglport@con2.com Wed Nov 18 17:24:40 1998 Subject: Re: Scary Sharp? George, any theWeb? I saw your plane in the Catskills and it looked weird, but if it worksthe way you say, I'm a-listenin'. How much might a welder/brazer charge acity-slicker (I'm in "Da Big Apple" where the labor charges rival thenational debt) for doing such a job? I have cut-off wheels but I think theacquisition of brazing materials would put the cost over the top (eventhough I have about 6 or 7 planes to modify). Where would I go to get thecarbide blanks---hell what would I even ask for? Am I nuts? Can you tellmehow to make it cost-effective?Any advice would be GREATLY appreciated,Art At 05:32 PM 11/18/98 -0800, you wrote: Ed Miller wrote: George, could you explain the reference to carbide. Do you have asource for carbide tipped plane irons? Please advise. Ed M. Ed: I cut the end off a plane iron with a thin abrasive cutter, braze thecarbide to the iron,rough shape with a green stone, then shape and sharpen with a diamondimpregnated steeland finish with diamond paste. The only thing wrong with them, they singafunny littletune when cutting well. George from anglport@con2.com Wed Nov 18 17:35:26 1998 Subject: Re: Scary Sharp? George,Is http://www.jlsupply.com/jl/products/knives/knives.htm their page? If so they aren't listing the minutia they sell.Art At 05:34 PM 11/18/98 -0800, you wrote: from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Nov 18 17:41:01 1998 Subject: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine/Hooray List,I just got thru with my weekly conversation with Mark Metcalf. Themagazineis at the mailers and is be addressed as we spoke, 6:15 P.M. eastern time. Itwill ship friday to all subscribers and shops who carry it. I know thattherehave been some problems with getting issues done and out to us but Irememberthe infancy of other mags and I look where they are today. You knowmaybethis is the best thing that could happen with BBFR is that they are goingthruall the problems up front here. They are trying to give us the finestmagazine that we could possibly want and that takes some doing. Againguysand ladies we are the ones who will make this magazine go and no- oneelse. IfMark doesn't have material to publish we will have nothing to read. Youpeople with writing skills get him material on bamboo rods to him so wecanall read it. I know when I talk to Carl Richards he is always telling me that this orthatmagazine wants him to write a certain article for publication. If you haveany ideas as to things you might want to write bounce them off Mark andgethis opinion as to how they might want it done. Most magazines havecriteriaon how they want articles done and they have subjects that they needsomeoneto write about. Carl is doing an article right now for a magazine calledMidSouth FlyFishing on the Cumberland river in Kentucky, their idea notCarlsthey asked him to do this. Sorry for getting so long winded but I reiterateit is our magazine fellow bambooers so lets stick in there and get somearticles to Mark.Bret from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Nov 18 17:41:23 1998 via smap (4.1) 15:44:12 PST Subject: Scary Sharp Process I remember someone asked about the scary sharp process. I finally found the site I first read about this system. It's a fun read. Sorry if this was already covered by someone else. http://www.mv.com/ipusers/gunterman/SCARY.HTM Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Nov 18 19:25:34 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Weight of long cane rods Yes from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Nov 18 19:26:00 1998 Subject: Re: Re: New to list Jim,I met Steve Hiner and Harry Steeves at the MAC-FFF show in Staunton,Va. Icall them the Frick and Frack of vt.edu and, yes, Steve and Tony should gettoknow one another (although I'm not sure the world could survive it).Welcome to the list.Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Nov 18 19:30:41 1998 Subject: Re: Re: New to list Mike,Look out for this guy, he's insidious, even got me to send him a 60 1/2deg. plane.Welcome to the list.Regards,Hank. from RVenneri@aol.com Wed Nov 18 19:37:46 1998 Subject: Re: George L. Herter - Expert I loved reading Mr Herters books. I have quite a few. In one of them I thinkits the one on building Bamboo Rods He mentioned Mc Guiers Cane. He saysIbelieve that he bought it all and that it was the best in the world. Has anybody ever heard of it or is this just a case of Mr Herter being quite ageniusin marketing what he sold. In any case I enjoy the hell out of reading hiswork. Best Regards,Bob V from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Wed Nov 18 19:38:08 1998 ix12.ix.netcom.com via smap(V1.3) Subject: water based polyurethane Thanks a bunch to everyone who responded. I think I am going to give it atry. I've done a bit of perusing the web today and found out a good bit.The finish is acrylic and polyurethane polymers suspended in a waterbasedsolvent. As the solvent dries, the polymer forms a solid shield. Theyclaim it dries tacky in 15 minutes, completely dries in about 2 hours andcures in 7 days. I didn't find anything negative on the web. I foundseveral general information pieces. The general consensus is that it ismore resistant to abuse than regular polyurethane and dries clear ratherthan yellow. The two most attractive products seem to be Polyshield byHydrocote and HP Polyurethane by General Paints. Both of these have UVinhibitors. Polyshield is rated as indoor/outdoor. I haven't run acrossHeirloom. I also haven't canvassed the local building supply places. Idid check the local wood craft places, Woodcraft and Paxton. Both carrythe General Paint product as does Japan Woodworker. All in all, it lookspretty good. I have a butt section ready to glue up so I should finish itin a few days. I'll post the results. I have a way around raising the grain. I used it on a couple of the rods Ibuilt. I bought some Bondo marine epoxy a while back. It has about thesame characteristics as Shell Epon; just a bit thinner. I hung the rodblanks from the ceiling, and wiped them down with the epoxy. After it seta few minutes, I wiped off all I could, pulling downward on the blank to"squeegee" it off. I finished wiping it with a lint free office tissue thesame way. Then I warmed it with a heat gun. Heat drives the viscosity oflong curing epoxies down to watery consistency. After it cooled a fewminutes, I repeated the process. I found I could do this about half dozentimes before the epoxy began to thicken. This makes a very thin shellaround the rod and should effectively shield it from the water. I'll read the article in Fine Woodworking if I can get it. Thought theymight have posted it to the web but not yet. Thanks again for the help. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from rcurry@top.monad.net Wed Nov 18 19:40:55 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo rodmaking only?/guide response FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: Russ,I've been criticised for putting large snakes on my rods whereupon Isuggested that they didn't understand co-efficients of friction vis-a- vissmall tubes going through large tubes or rings. Your comments on singlefootguides and Fujis are well taken.Regards,Hank.Hank,Enlighten me re: coefficients of friction on small tubes going throughrings. I would think that the number of points of contact always equal 1(one); no matter the size of the ring. I grant you that the number ofincidents of contact might increase with a smaller ring, but thefriction should be the same.I favor small, low profile, reverse-twist snakes. The reverse-twistiscosmetic, you would think; but, in point of fact, the contact on the lowleft side is less. This is due, of course, to the rotation of the earth,which retards the leftward movement of the line. In the Southernhemisphere, I would use standard-twist snakes. I find that the low profile reduces weight and, as proven by extensivewind-tunnel tests, air turbulence.As a further refinement, I have linked my Johnson Magnetic reel totheflyline. This provides a small static generator. The charged line isrepelled by the metallic guides and rarely touches the metal.Best regards,Reed from channer@hubwest.com Wed Nov 18 19:49:36 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A98E1B6E0146; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 18:51:10 MST Subject: Re: polyurathane At 08:15 AM 11/18/98 -0600, you wrote:May have to do that but at 26 bucks a quart, I sure want it to work. Mydrip tube is set up to take a quart and a half so I would need to get aquart and a pint and then thin it with about a pint of water(if it's thesame as regular). Thats about 45 bucks (tax included) to charge it. Ithink I will peruse the web for info and see what the general consensusis.Oh well, nothing ventured, nothing gained and unless you try somethingnew, you learn nothing. I'll let you know what I find our or if I try it,how it works. Onis; Take a piece of scrap to a paint store and see if they will let you putsome on it to see how it looks. I have used it on wood and I don't like itat all. It doesn't buff out between coats as well as solvent based varnishand it has a kind of strange bluish tint to it. And, as you noticed, it ismore expensive.Just my 2c's John from emiller257@dataflo.net Wed Nov 18 19:57:49 1998 wddataflo.dataflo.net(8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA16359 for ;Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:05:17 Subject: Re: Scary Sharp? George W. Barnes wrote: Ed Miller wrote: George, could you explain the reference to carbide. Do you have asource for carbide tipped plane irons? Please advise. Ed M. Ed: I cut the end off a plane iron with a thin abrasive cutter, braze thecarbide to the iron,rough shape with a green stone, then shape and sharpen with a diamondimpregnated steeland finish with diamond paste. The only thing wrong with them, they singa funny littletune when cutting well. GeorgeThanks George. going to try to do this also. I'm kinda tired of resharpening so often especially when using a 45 deg angle on my Hock blade. The angle works great on nodes but seems to require constant attention. Ed Miller from channer@hubwest.com Wed Nov 18 19:58:42 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id ABB014660100; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 19:00:16 MST Subject: Re: Bench At 01:50 PM 11/18/98 -0800, you wrote:I am in the process of finishing a new bench. I had bench envy after the past conversation. Anyhow...any tips for finishing the top with poly?Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.munrorodco.com Jon;Yeah; don't. Oil it with tung, linseed or mineral oil instead. If youvarnish the top of a work bench it will just drive you nuts when you markit up. Also, be sure to coat the whole top before you mount it, if you justfinish the top it will warp. John from emiller257@dataflo.net Wed Nov 18 20:02:02 1998 wddataflo.dataflo.net(8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA16414 for ;Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:09:28 Subject: Re: Young Perfectionist and Sir D favorite Scott Wilson wrote: There is a taper for a Young Perfectionist in Jack Howell's book. Scott WilsonScott, the taper in Jack's book is different than the one in G.Maurer's book and is different from the taper I got from Ron Barch of TPF. Ron's version came from Todd Young and thats the one I'm building. I believe that its also listed in Waynes book as a 7'6" 4-5 wt. Ed Miller from jczimny@dol.net Wed Nov 18 20:09:51 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo rodmaking only?/guide response Correct. Two tangent circles of different sizes can only be tangent at onepoint. The use of the Johnson Magnetic is brilliant. Would you say that youhad "Gaussed" the hell out of your fishing pole?John-----Original Message-- --- Subject: Re: Bamboo rodmaking only?/guide response FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: Russ,I've been criticised for putting large snakes on my rods whereupon Isuggested that they didn't understand co-efficients of friction vis-a- vissmall tubes going through large tubes or rings. Your comments on singlefootguides and Fujis are well taken.Regards,Hank.Hank,Enlighten me re: coefficients of friction on small tubes going throughrings. I would think that the number of points of contact always equal 1(one); no matter the size of the ring. I grant you that the numberof>incidents of contact might increase with a smaller ring, but thefriction should be the same.I favor small, low profile, reverse-twist snakes. The reverse-twist iscosmetic, you would think; but, in point of fact, the contact on the lowleft side is less. This is due, of course, to the rotation of the earth,which retards the leftward movement of the line. In the Southernhemisphere, I would use standard-twist snakes.I find that the low profile reduces weight and, as proven by extensivewind-tunnel tests, air turbulence.As a further refinement, I have linked my Johnson Magnetic reel to theflyline. This provides a small static generator. The charged line isrepelled by the metallic guides and rarely touches the metal.Best regards,Reed from sats@gte.net Wed Nov 18 20:13:43 1998 Subject: Re: Sv: Hand Planed? All that is being discussed in a "hand planed" vs. "milled"vs. "laser cut" vs. "gnawed by rats with acute eyesight" o Where can I get some of those rats??? Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from sats@gte.net Wed Nov 18 20:13:44 1998 Subject: Re: rod design I got into this because Icouldn't buy what I wanted. I fish small warmwater streams (mostlyArkansas) and there are not rods designed for that type of fishing(or atleast my view of it). My goal is a good 7', 7wt. rod that handles like adry fly rod. After all, what is a popper but a real big dry fly.Apparently, unless I design it, and build it, I ain't gonna get it. I have learned how to build really fast bamboo rods. Take an old beat tohell(sorry Preacher, didn't mean to cus.) $25 9ft 3p rod from your pawn shop. Now cut about .666666 off the bottom of each section. put the remainingrodback together and you WILL have a fast seven foot rod. If you get one oftheheavy duty Shakspears H-I's or Montigues, It'll come out 7wt ~ 10wt. I 'garonte . Disclaimer: Don't try this with any rod that could be restored. esp,Dickerson,T&T, Orvis, Powell, Philipson and the like. I want to sleep at night and Icouldn't do that thinking you'd butchered a really good rod. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Wed Nov 18 20:24:18 1998 ix5.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Elmers Glue If you add a small amount of potassium dichromate, (get it at a ceramicsupply), to the white glue, it makes it photosensitive. After it's dry,cure with UV and nothing but nothing will dissolve it. We used to use thatto make silkscreens for printed circuit boards. The unexposed glue wouldwash out with a mild bleach solution, the exposed didn't. But don't drinkany of that. Potassium dichromate is poisonous. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com Hi ListIf you want to try a good working glue that allows adjustment time andhasa reasonable shelf life. Try Elmers White Glue or any other ordinary whitewood glue.Mix 2 parts white glue with 3 parts water. Yes that's right!!!!Now here comes the secret ingrediant that will far surpasses ANYuracor epoxyAdd one crushed Viagra pill and mix vigouressly.After gluing up thesplines, drink the rest of the mixture ( while standing WELL back fromthework bench)then go upstairs to SWMBO & enjoy. Remember to be VERYcarefullwhen negotiating corners in the hallway unless you're handy at repairinghole in the drywall.Cheers Brian from GLohkamp@aol.com Wed Nov 18 20:37:27 1998 Subject: Re: Tom Morgan Tom Morgans e-mail rodsmiths@imt.net Gary Lohkamp from jaquin@netsync.net Wed Nov 18 21:15:39 1998 quartz.netsync.net (8.8.5/8.6.12)with SMTP id WAA30058 for ; Wed, 18 Nov1998 22:15:25 -0500 Subject: Re: polyurathane/Heirloom Brand Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: There are many different water based polies out there and most are crapbut ifound one that is really some nice stuff called Heirloom Poly. If you canfind it try it out. I am goin to do some test strips of it this winter.Brethi bret, i think i remember seeing that brand at _ _ _mart. check itout!! jerry from jaquin@netsync.net Wed Nov 18 21:31:10 1998 quartz.netsync.net (8.8.5/8.6.12)with SMTP id WAA31666 for ; Wed, 18 Nov1998 22:31:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Scary Sharp? Art Port wrote: George, any theWeb? I saw your plane in the Catskills and it looked weird, but if itworksthe way you say, I'm a-listenin'. How much might a welder/brazer chargeacity-slicker (I'm in "Da Big Apple" where the labor charges rival thenational debt) for doing such a job? I have cut-off wheels but I think theacquisition of brazing materials would put the cost over the top (eventhough I have about 6 or 7 planes to modify). Where would I go to get thecarbide blanks---hell what would I even ask for? Am I nuts? Can you tellmehow to make it cost-effective?Any advice would be GREATLY appreciated,Art At 05:32 PM 11/18/98 -0800, you wrote: Ed Miller wrote: George, could you explain the reference to carbide. Do you have asource for carbide tipped plane irons? Please advise. Ed M. Ed: I cut the end off a plane iron with a thin abrasive cutter, braze thecarbide to the iron,rough shape with a green stone, then shape and sharpen with a diamondimpregnated steeland finish with diamond paste. The only thing wrong with them, theysing afunny littletune when cutting well. George hi art, i'm looking into making carbide tipped planing blades myself,but won't have much time to put into the project until after theholidays. will let you know on the cost. jerry from jaquin@netsync.net Wed Nov 18 21:33:02 1998 quartz.netsync.net (8.8.5/8.6.12)with SMTP id WAA31840 for ; Wed, 18 Nov1998 22:33:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Scary Sharp? Art Port wrote: George,Is http://www.jlsupply.com/jl/products/knives/knives.htm their page? If so they aren't listing the minutia they sell.Art At 05:34 PM 11/18/98 -0800, you wrote: hi again, i have a j&L catalog at work. if my old-timers diseasedoesn't flair up on me, i will get address/phone numbers for you. jerry from KDLoup@aol.com Wed Nov 18 21:55:09 1998 Subject: Re: Bench Jon,I am building a traditional cabinetmaker's bench from the plans in thebookMaking Workbenches. In the book, the author suggest an oil finish. Mybenchis made from oak and I am using Watco's golden oak tinted Danish oil. Itlightly stains the oak an amber color. I don't like to stain wood, but bareoak is too light in color for my taste. To apply, you wipe it on just liketung oil. I wouldn't be surprised if tung oil and Danish oil are essentiallythe same thing. I suspect you can add some oil based stain to tung oil andachieve the same results. Kurt Loup from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Nov 18 21:58:44 1998 Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:58:24 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: New to list On Wed, 18 Nov 1998 FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: Mike,Look out for this guy, he's insidious, even got me to send him a 60 1/2deg. plane.Welcome to the list.Regards,Hank. I use it often too. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from dpeaston@wzrd.com Wed Nov 18 22:08:02 1998 mail.wzrd.com (8.9.1/8.7.3)with SMTP id XAA08675 for ; Wed, 18 Nov Subject: Re: Impregnation/Leonard At 03:15 PM 11/18/98 EST, you wrote:In a message dated 11/18/98 10:31:18 AM Pacific Standard Time,Grhghlndr@aol.com writes: even close to being as heavy as an orvis? Maybe if you want to use thisprocess then you should try and find out this process. Bret >>Leonard used a really simple process. They bought the blanks fromPartridge,I think. Could have been Sharpes. If you wnat I can look at an old Leonardcatalogue and get the name where I wrote it in the margin. ----------------------------->Snip------------------------------- Chris Lucker Chris, I am shocked! I understood from a number of sources, includingSchwiebert's"Trout", that Sharpes and Orvis both used the same process to impregnatetheir blanks. Personal experience, however suggests that you are right. Iown a 7'6" Sharpes Scottie (I built it from a blank) which is in no way aclubby rod. Perhaps my Scottish brethren improved the process.Comments? Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from sshorb@ozip.net Wed Nov 18 22:29:32 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-55785U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:30:06 -0600 Subject: Re: Young Perfectionist and Sir D favorite Has anyone had the opportunity to measure 2 or more rods of one model from one of the classic rod makers? Skip from jczimny@dol.net Wed Nov 18 23:04:59 1998 Subject: Re: Impregnation/Leonard It comes as a revelation to me that Leonard impregnated their blanks. Asfaras I know they did not.John Z-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Impregnation/Leonard At 03:15 PM 11/18/98 EST, you wrote:In a message dated 11/18/98 10:31:18 AM Pacific Standard Time,Grhghlndr@aol.com writes: even close to being as heavy as an orvis? Maybe if you want to use thisprocess then you should try and find out this process.Bret >>Leonard used a really simple process. They bought the blanks fromPartridge,I think. Could have been Sharpes. If you wnat I can look at an oldLeonardcatalogue and get the name where I wrote it in the margin. ----------------------------->Snip------------------------------- Chris Lucker Chris, I am shocked! I understood from a number of sources, includingSchwiebert's"Trout", that Sharpes and Orvis both used the same process to impregnatetheir blanks. Personal experience, however suggests that you are right. Iown a 7'6" Sharpes Scottie (I built it from a blank) which is in no way aclubby rod. Perhaps my Scottish brethren improved the process.Comments? Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Nov 19 00:21:41 1998 (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: polyurathane The bluish tint is most likely UV inhibitor -- keeps it from yellowingafterprolonged exposure to sunlight. George Bourke -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: polyurathane At 08:15 AM 11/18/98 -0600, you wrote:May have to do that but at 26 bucks a quart, I sure want it to work. Mydrip tube is set up to take a quart and a half so I would need to get aquart and a pint and then thin it with about a pint of water(if it's thesame as regular). Thats about 45 bucks (tax included) to charge it. Ithink I will peruse the web for info and see what the general consensusis.Oh well, nothing ventured, nothing gained and unless you try somethingnew, you learn nothing. I'll let you know what I find our or if I try it,how it works. Onis; Take a piece of scrap to a paint store and see if they will let you putsome on it to see how it looks. I have used it on wood and I don't like itat all. It doesn't buff out between coats as well as solvent based varnishand it has a kind of strange bluish tint to it. And, as you noticed, it ismore expensive.Just my 2c's John from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Nov 19 00:38:10 1998 (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Impregnation/Leonard John, Duracanes, only the Duracanes (Sharpe's of Aberdeen blanks made forLeonard). (When Bill Cairns was making Leonard catalogs begin to looklikeOrvis catalogs.) George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Impregnation/Leonard It comes as a revelation to me that Leonard impregnated their blanks. Asfaras I know they did not.John Z-----Original Message-----From: Douglas P. Easton Date: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 11:09 PMSubject: Re: Impregnation/Leonard At 03:15 PM 11/18/98 EST, you wrote:In a message dated 11/18/98 10:31:18 AM Pacific Standard Time,Grhghlndr@aol.com writes: noteven close to being as heavy as an orvis? Maybe if you want to usethisprocess then you should try and find out this process.Bret >>Leonard used a really simple process. They bought the blanks fromPartridge,I think. Could have been Sharpes. If you wnat I can look at an oldLeonardcatalogue and get the name where I wrote it in the margin. ----------------------------->Snip------------------------------- Chris Lucker Chris, I am shocked! I understood from a number of sources, includingSchwiebert's"Trout", that Sharpes and Orvis both used the same process toimpregnatetheir blanks. Personal experience, however suggests that you are right. Iown a 7'6" Sharpes Scottie (I built it from a blank) which is in no way aclubby rod. Perhaps my Scottish brethren improved the process.Comments? Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from saltwein@swbell.net Thu Nov 19 06:15:33 1998 GAA01557 Subject: Re: Scary Sharp? hi again, i have a j&L catalog at work. if my old-timers diseasedoesn't flair up on me, i will get address/phone numbers for you. jerry Jerry, How about posting to the list, I would like to have the address also.Thank you. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from harry37@epix.net Thu Nov 19 07:01:08 1998 SMTP id IAA13237 Subject: Re: Bamboo rodmaking only? Offset the stripper almost 45 degrees toward the left (if you cast withyourright hand) and split the difference between it and the third guide, whichshould be on-line, for the second guide. Hope these comments help. Hank- I'd be interested in the logic for offsetting the stripping guides at a45 degree angle--Is is because it lines up better with your strippinghand? GReg from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Thu Nov 19 07:44:09 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Thu,19Nov 1998 08:53:13 -0500 Subject: RE: Bench Yup...instead of having the top stained by oils and such I figured I would finish it. On 18 Nov 98, at 11:06, mcdowellc@lanecc.edu wrote: Jon, Try a coat of varnish, then sand lightly, then put a coat of polyurethane.The varnish adheres to the surface better then poly, but the poly isharder and therefore wears better. With the two used in conjuction youget the best of both worlds. Are you really going to put a finish on yourbenchtop? Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.munrorodco.com from destinycon@mindspring.com Thu Nov 19 07:45:50 1998 Subject: Re: Scary Sharp? At 05:32 PM 11/18/98 -0800, you wrote:rough shape with a green stone, >George George,Is this a water stone or a dimond stone? I have a green stone for myMakitia (sp) sharperer, I've never tried sharpening anything as hard ascarbide on it though. Is this what you are using to lap the iron also?Gary H. PS I'm FINALY getting GREAT results forming my butt caps with reeltangpockets, per your instructions. THANKS for your help. from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Thu Nov 19 08:37:18 1998 (5.5.2407.0) Subject: RE: Bamboo rodmaking only?/guide response Wow Reed that was awesome ----------From: Reed F. Curry[SMTP:rcurry@top.monad.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 5:43 PM Subject: Re: Bamboo rodmaking only?/guide response FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: Russ,I've been criticised for putting large snakes on my rods whereupon Isuggested that they didn't understand co-efficients of frictionvis-a-vissmall tubes going through large tubes or rings. Your comments onsinglefootguides and Fujis are well taken.Regards,Hank.Hank,Enlighten me re: coefficients of friction on small tubes goingthroughrings. I would think that the number of points of contact always equal 1(one); no matter the size of the ring. I grant you that the number ofincidents of contact might increase with a smaller ring, but thefriction should be the same.I favor small, low profile, reverse- twist snakes. The reverse-twistiscosmetic, you would think; but, in point of fact, the contact on the lowleft side is less. This is due, of course, to the rotation of the earth,which retards the leftward movement of the line. In the Southernhemisphere, I would use standard-twist snakes. I find that the low profile reduces weight and, as proven byextensivewind-tunnel tests, air turbulence.As a further refinement, I have linked my Johnson Magnetic reel totheflyline. This provides a small static generator. The charged line isrepelled by the metallic guides and rarely touches the metal.Best regards,Reed from jjohnso4@bellsouth.net Thu Nov 19 10:06:17 1998 LAA05253 Subject: Re: Scary Sharp? Hi Folks, Several people have asked about the phone number for J & L IndustrialSupply. Their number is: [800] 521-9520 Later,Johnny----------------------------------------------Johnny JohnsonLilburn, GA from LUU@NMDHST.CC.NIH.GOV Thu Nov 19 10:56:54 1998 Subject: source for cold-rooled steel Hi All,I am new to bamboo rod making. I am trying to find a source forcold- rolled steel to make planing forms. Does anybody knows a source forit?. Thank you for your help.Andy from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Nov 19 11:13:20 1998 via smap (4.1) 9:15:49 PST Subject: Asbjorn Horgard Someone has contacted me to ask information about a rod made by Asbjorn Horgard of Trondheim, Norway. I remember seeing that name on this list I thought. Is Asbjorn out there, or does anyone know him? Please e-mailme. Thanks. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from stpete@netten.net Thu Nov 19 11:54:50 1998 cedar.netten.net(8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA03724 for ;Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:54:48 Subject: Re: Asbjorn Horgard Chris, I had inquired about an Asbjorn Horgard rod two or three months ago. Ireceived some fine replies. Unfortunately, I did not save the repliesas I did not buy the rod. Perhaps you could find the posts in thearchives. If not, I think Carsten is the person who found an expert whoresponded. Perhaps he could contact the gent again. Rick Crenshaw mcdowellc@lanecc.edu wrote: Someone has contacted me to ask information about a rod made byAsbjornHorgard of Trondheim, Norway. I remember seeing that name on this listIthought. Is Asbjorn out there, or does anyone know him? Please e- mailme.Thanks. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from stpete@netten.net Thu Nov 19 12:03:24 1998 cedar.netten.net(8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA03455 for ;Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:51:33 Subject: Re: source for cold-rooled steel Andy, Look in your local Yellow Pages for metal suppliers. 1" and 3/4" squarecold rolled keystock is universally available and is widely used by anymachine shop. Typically will come in 12' lengths. Relatively easy towork for any home shop. All I had was a drill press. That's it. Therest was hand done and quite easy to do, although time consuming. I'mrather proud of my work, as my planing forms was the first steel I hadever worked with. Rick Crenshaw ANDREW LUU wrote: Hi All,I am new to bamboo rod making. I am trying to find a source forcold- rolled steel to make planing forms. Does anybody knows a sourceforit?. Thank you for your help.Andy from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Nov 19 12:09:21 1998 via smap (4.1) 10:12:15 PST Subject: RE: Asbjorn Horgard Thanks Rick for the clarification. This is a rod the fella has and it sounds like he is looking for historical information. He has a serial number etc. I tried to look through the archives at Jerry Foster's site but it doesn't show anything since May '98. If anyone is familiar with Asbjorn and wouldn't mind passing some information along I wouldappreciate it. I could also give you the inquirers e-mail so you could talk directly. Thanks. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from RVenneri@aol.com Thu Nov 19 12:12:43 1998 Subject: Re: source for cold-rooled steel Hi Andy,I bought some cold rolled steel (stress relieved) from Jon Linvet He is amember of this list his email is jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Give him a try he's a real nice fellow and will probably be able to help youout. Good Luck Bob V from cmj@post11.tele.dk Thu Nov 19 12:26:25 1998 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0100 Subject: Sv: Asbjorn Horgard Asbjorn Hoergaard was a Norwegian rodmaker of good reputation here iScandinavia. I too rememberthe mails about him, but did not save them. Most info came from anorwegian member of this list.I cant remember whom. Anyway, I have a rodmaking friend i Norway. I'll ask him to gather someinfo, if possible. I'llpublish ASAP. regards, Carsten from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Nov 19 12:32:21 1998 via smap (4.1) 10:35:00 PST Subject: Jerry Foster's Website Al, The website is http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.html Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from gwbarnes@gwi.net Thu Nov 19 12:38:06 1998 Subject: Re: Scary Sharp? Wrong outfit. Try callong 1-800-521-9520 Art Port wrote: George,Is http://www.jlsupply.com/jl/products/knives/knives.htm their page? If so they aren't listing the minutia they sell.Art At 05:34 PM 11/18/98 -0800, you wrote: from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Thu Nov 19 12:39:05 1998 NAA19513 Subject: RE: Jerry Foster's Website I'm getting Web Site not found. Any idea?Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, November 19, 1998 1:32 PM Subject: Jerry Foster's Website Al, The website is http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.html Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from gwbarnes@gwi.net Thu Nov 19 12:42:47 1998 Subject: Re: Scary Sharp? The stone is actually a green colored grinding wheel for a regular benchgrinder.Can't remember the make-up of the stone. If this doesn't help, get back tome andI'll look at the make-up, grade, etc the next time I go to the shop. Heidt wrote: At 05:32 PM 11/18/98 -0800, you wrote:rough shape with a green stone, >George George,Is this a water stone or a dimond stone? I have a green stone formyMakitia (sp) sharperer, I've never tried sharpening anything as hard ascarbide on it though. Is this what you are using to lap the iron also?Gary H. PS I'm FINALY getting GREAT results forming my butt caps with reeltangpockets, per your instructions. THANKS for your help. from jonfun@univest.com Thu Nov 19 13:11:45 1998 0600 Subject: Thanks again Thanks Listmembers, once again I had a huge response to my last post. Idon't have a great deal of money to invest just yet so I'm going to try tobuild some of my own tools as per the advice of many responders. I didlooseone message in a E-mail server crash which had something to do with atechnique for planing a two strip rod(whatever that means). I think thedesigners name was Richard Tyree. Anyway, If anyone has information ordesign details I would love to hear about it. It sounds like an economicalway to get a homemade cane pole in my hand. Also, I am building aworkbenchand I need to know if 2' x 6' will be enough room for rod-building. Thistruly is an awesome listserver. Jonathan Funk winmail.dat Name: winmail.datType: unspecified type (application/octet-stream)Encoding: x-uuencode from teekay35@interlynx.net Thu Nov 19 13:44:46 1998 Subject: Gene Edwards Rod Re-finish Does anyone have information about the thread wrap treatment on thefemaleferrules of a Gene Edwards rod? I have detailed info from a rod that Irefinished years ago, but for some reason neglected to measure and recordthe female ferrule thread wrap. For example, the male ferrules are fullywrapped, with narrow trims at each end. Is the female treated the sameway? Ted Knottteekay35@interlynx.net from anglport@con2.com Thu Nov 19 15:19:14 1998 Subject: Re: Impregnation/Leonard John,I was ALWAYS under the impression that the Duracane series was animpregnated rod. Was it something else?? I'm open to enlightenment but Iwas SURE they were.Art At 11:53 PM 11/18/98 -0500, you wrote:It comes as a revelation to me that Leonard impregnated their blanks. Asfaras I know they did not.John Z---- -Original Message-----From: Douglas P. Easton Date: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 11:09 PMSubject: Re: Impregnation/Leonard At 03:15 PM 11/18/98 EST, you wrote:In a message dated 11/18/98 10:31:18 AM Pacific Standard Time,Grhghlndr@aol.com writes: noteven close to being as heavy as an orvis? Maybe if you want to usethisprocess then you should try and find out this process.Bret >>Leonard used a really simple process. They bought the blanks fromPartridge,I think. Could have been Sharpes. If you wnat I can look at an oldLeonardcatalogue and get the name where I wrote it in the margin. ----------------------------->Snip------------------------------- Chris Lucker Chris, I am shocked! I understood from a number of sources, includingSchwiebert's"Trout", that Sharpes and Orvis both used the same process toimpregnatetheir blanks. Personal experience, however suggests that you are right. Iown a 7'6" Sharpes Scottie (I built it from a blank) which is in no way aclubby rod. Perhaps my Scottish brethren improved the process.Comments? Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Thu Nov 19 15:26:45 1998 15:26:20 -0600 R8.20.00.25) Subject: Re[2]: Jerry Foster's Website The address ends with htm, not html.Jon McAnulty ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: RE: Jerry Foster's Website Author: at Internet-Mail I'm getting Web Site not found. Any idea? Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, November 19, 1998 1:32 PM Subject: Jerry Foster's Website Al, The website is http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.html Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Nov 19 16:01:24 1998 via smap (4.1) 10:52:17 PST Subject: J. Foster Website Correction I'm sorry Al, I added an "l" at the end and that isn't correct. Try this one. http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from hhholland@erols.com Thu Nov 19 16:29:01 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo rodmaking only? -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Bamboo rodmaking only? Offset the stripper almost 45 degrees toward the left (if you cast withyourright hand) and split the difference between it and the third guide,whichshould be on-line, for the second guide. Hope these comments help. Hank- I'd be interested in the logic for offsetting the stripping guides at a45 degree angle--Is is because it lines up better with your strippinghand? GReg Hi Greg,Exactly right. It only matters when you are shooting line, and works bestwhen the line is coming from a stripping basket worn on the left side or from the floor of a boat. It also helps to make an O of the thumb andforefinger of the stripping hand and use it as an "extra guide" for the lineto pass through. The fly line does not have to make a fairly abrupt almostright-angle turn as it goes into the guides. I never messed with this stuffmuch until I began fishing saltwater some years ago.Hank H. from jczimny@dol.net Thu Nov 19 17:57:53 1998 -0500 Subject: RE: Impregnation/Leonard =_NextPart_000_01BE13EC.45BEE2E0" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE13EC.45BEE2E0 -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Impregnation/Leonard John,I was ALWAYS under the impression that the Duracane series was animpregnated rod. Was it something else?? I'm open to enlightenment but Iwas SURE they were.Art At 11:53 PM 11/18/98 -0500, you wrote:It comes as a revelation to me that Leonard impregnated their blanks. Asfaras I know they did not.John Z---- -Original Message-----From: Douglas P. Easton Date: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 11:09 PMSubject: Re: Impregnation/Leonard At 03:15 PM 11/18/98 EST, you wrote:In a message dated 11/18/98 10:31:18 AM Pacific Standard Time,Grhghlndr@aol.com writes: noteven close to being as heavy as an orvis? Maybe if you want to usethisprocess then you should try and find out this process.Bret >>Leonard used a really simple process. They bought the blanks fromPartridge,I think. Could have been Sharpes. If you wnat I can look at an oldLeonardcatalogue and get the name where I wrote it in the margin. ----------------------------->Snip------------------------------- Chris Lucker Chris, I am shocked! I understood from a number of sources, includingSchwiebert's"Trout", that Sharpes and Orvis both used the same process toimpregnatetheir blanks. Personal experience, however suggests that you are right. Iown a 7'6" Sharpes Scottie (I built it from a blank) which is in no way aclubby rod. Perhaps my Scottish brethren improved the process.Comments? Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from jczimny@dol.net Thu Nov 19 18:50:15 1998 -0500 Subject: RE: Impregnation/Leonard =_NextPart_000_01BE13F3.DC5CC300" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE13F3.DC5CC300 -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Impregnation/Leonard Duracane was made by Sharps of Aberdeen. I don't know of any impregnatedrods the Leonardactually made.John -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Impregnation/Leonard John,I was ALWAYS under the impression that the Duracane series was animpregnated rod. Was it something else?? I'm open to enlightenment but Iwas SURE they were.Art At 11:53 PM 11/18/98 -0500, you wrote:It comes as a revelation to me that Leonard impregnated their blanks. Asfaras I know they did not.John Z---- -Original Message-----From: Douglas P. Easton Date: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 11:09 PMSubject: Re: Impregnation/Leonard At 03:15 PM 11/18/98 EST, you wrote:In a message dated 11/18/98 10:31:18 AM Pacific Standard Time,Grhghlndr@aol.com writes: noteven close to being as heavy as an orvis? Maybe if you want to usethisprocess then you should try and find out this process.Bret >>Leonard used a really simple process. They bought the blanks fromPartridge,I think. Could have been Sharpes. If you wnat I can look at an oldLeonardcatalogue and get the name where I wrote it in the margin. ----------------------------->Snip------------------------------- Chris Lucker Chris, I am shocked! I understood from a number of sources, includingSchwiebert's"Trout", that Sharpes and Orvis both used the same process toimpregnatetheir blanks. Personal experience, however suggests that you are right. Iown a 7'6" Sharpes Scottie (I built it from a blank) which is in no way aclubby rod. Perhaps my Scottish brethren improved the process.Comments? Doug EastonTonawanda, NY ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE13F3.DC5CC300 eJ8+IgoAAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNyb3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYA1AEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAALAA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAUwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAHJvZG1ha2Vyc0B3dWdhdGUud3VzdGwuZWR1AFNNVFAAcm9kbWFrZXJzQHd1Z2F0ZS53dXN0bC5lZHUAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEAAAAbAAAAcm9kbWFrZXJzQHd1Z2F0ZS53dXN0bC5lZHUAAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAAB0AAAAncm9kbWFrZXJzQHd1Z2F0ZS53dXN0bC5lZHUnAAAAAAIBCzABAAAAIAAAAFNNVFA6Uk9ETUFLRVJTQFdVR0FURS5XVVNUTC5FRFUAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAB4A9l8BAAAAGwAAAHJvZG1ha2Vyc0B3dWdhdGUud3VzdGwuZWR1AAACAfdfAQAAAFMAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9UAgAAAAByb2RtYWtlcnNAd3VnYXRlLnd1c3RsLmVkdQBTTVRQAHJvZG1ha2Vyc0B3dWdhdGUud3VzdGwuZWR1AAADAP1fAQAAAAMA/18AAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAiFtAQSAAQAZAAAAUkU6IEltcHJlZ25hdGlvbi9MZW9uYXJkANIIAQWAAwAOAAAAzgcLABMAEwAjAA0ABAA6AQEggAMADgAAAM4HCwATABMAIwAFAAQAMgEBCYABACEAAAA3MjczNDk1QjFEMTRCRTExOTg2RTRBQ0U2QjlFRkY0NwBQBwEDkAYApAkAACEAAAALAAIAAQAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMALgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAgKkUox0UvgEeAHAAAQAAABkAAABSRTogSW1wcmVnbmF0aW9uL0xlb25hcmQAAAAAAgFxAAEAAAAbAAAAAb4UFeHXBOXFAn/eEdKky4tffrg3PgAB7x/AAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAQAAAAamN6aW1ueUBkb2wubmV0AAMABhAqEIgUAwAHEIUGAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAAAtLS0tLU9SSUdJTkFMTUVTU0FHRS0tLS0tRlJPTTpKQ1pJTU5ZU01UUDpKQ1pJTU5ZQERPTE5FVFNFTlQ6VEhVUlNEQVksTk9WRU1CRVIxOSwxOTk4Njo0MFBNVE86Uk9ETUFLAAAAAAIBCRABAAAAhQYAAIEGAADSCwAATFpGdYlEqeQDAAoAcmNwZzEyNXYyAPQB9yACpAPjAgBjgmgKwHNldDAgBxOHAoMAUA+2cHJxMhC2Zn0KgAjIIDsJbw4wNbMCgAqBdWMAUAsDYwBBRQtgbg4QMDMzDGBs+m4CIGULpwqxCoQKhAsw8GxpMzYBQBXQF3EDYAp0BZB0EUQxNiAt9RpCTwUQZwuAB0AF0AeQ8HNhZ2UaQxeGGVQXc4MLMRlWaS0xNDQBQHEYoDE4MAFADNAd42JUIEYDYToMg2IQoEooLiBDIBBaB3BueQAgW1NNVFA6aqRjeiByQGQG8C4W4Hx0XReFHxAGYAIwH3dUgmgIcHNkYXksB7AYb3ZlBtAEkCAxOYMkACSwOTggNjoeAEggUE0iJ1RvH3cnFQNgZADAawSQc0B3KHVnYRlwLiegc3QTIcAJgHUnIih1YmoDGYEfd1JFOiBJbUkSAGVnGuB0aQIgL/xMZQIgCxMcDx0YGKYRYR0XKkQIcADQAHBlIHdOYQQgAMABACBiIKBT5RBBcAQgb2YQsCRxAQCTCfAgEEkgIaBuJwVA/msWwAfgMMEAcCCgB3Aqpc0JgCAnAQQgdGgvcCtVazKAGZB1B0BsIKAv0i7xF4RKb2gLkBebLE8tVH8BwRjzGc8a3zaPHP8eAzLfOUAejx+VBxAFQFAJESC1KRYhbHAJEUAFoG4yOi4FoG0iHyMvJD80On8eUCWPH6QnDygXKL8px2W/Km8rfzvfOFQXGzXiLBeEgzGQL5JBTFdBWQXw/HVuBIEz0zLTBBBKETPR/yfQM9MvBxBwCIEEIC+SAHBXF4Qy3SAQVy+haQVAcwsDcBCAaAuAZyBlbEkQcD8/SXAnbTCwcCsJ8DPQb1TwbhigZ2hdGXBuB4ACMDAQdQVASXMXhC+SU1UqQDPSIKB3vwSQNWY/MReOWi8Xt0EFQGAxMTo1M0ShXEEvxR5QLyURLTA1HnBDID55CGAvgBlSH3AXkz5J3wVAQQEHkVIyM4BlJEALYH9KAlXyB4BQhDQmMtoz4WmnBcACYABwa3MgEEEEIH5mCsBehS+hMZAyE1hTZNZpM3AWwHQ1dT414iBQ916FOX86jT4fM1EQCGBAQHUvoVAgEEUvoFYAA6A8bmRVwGoDRqB6CyBA8j7/XoUmQUYPKAhqUGxPKBdrhnZEJ9FJYFcJgBbgQu440yTVXFEwOUSnPkhGST93Skxrhl6FPlwhFmBEcDXxXKtFU1Rdz3aBXuADoH9fsAeBOoIxoDNDXOcWUDrWM1xgRIFBXMBQANAGkP8N4AYAAZBPUDRiB2JOBXlRGEdyaFZwFrBkckD+YSGxQQFeEVQwB5B46Hj33Dw8U+BQohlBY2fBZQP/NCYoIGDBVhAy2GJlM5MkcP8vQIJjWGIKwBbwXpRlUXj391TwJEADoGMJAIJ0JHBUwnMvoTPwYXaE4VJCMLBy/nYEAFVQBdBDACRwMsAw0P94UwBwUMFWEIR0BACF2IEmpzPhA6B4UnNoCGBsYlH+coThT1BjcAuAM3AIYFDC7wQAgRZlhoZBQglwBUB/+b+B6TSBX8E04wCQdCBsL3D/jnaJAEKgWHEG4CewVoAz039i1GNwA2FehXwAACAFEGTvOqB9WDGQVKJrktEIUYzhfxBAJECEIVXRMFMHkJLRSS+JlXRxMYEvQSAJAG9r/zKABUCIcozgXoV07HaQL0D7AZAJAGcKUI1DOqBQxGdw/WCxdzPwCXAxgV4jVCILgPsz0wDAcmdRjuh492bToQ93oYVzMAMAcKGPo8yfrz7sQ2gFEAQgTBVAblGk3/92J6XzfVd2NjGQnXCMkqZx/GQhMYFPQ2oRBHCUY1+h/G51JGMwwVRgCHCBUUMg2wuAhsB1ZRBU0VMQMAPwkmUkcXQniuciVANg/VcgIkMgUJOX9Y1DZyCIwf+TQTPgkQQz4jqAYLGLl4K6O3Y2YnxQbmFKcQMgZXj/VcAIga0QfUCH0DIwX+EFwP5zJ7A6oCgwM8JQsXhShQE/M4BWYjFxdjYyMHmSNyd8NiKvt62gGWB0kC9wKH8xkFcQAxCeoQVAq2Vi0yn/naEN4LEQjkGewRbAL4GE4ft2Nq0hYjAhU6O0wRBAMJH+bTAxujOMoDAQj6GmAFXR3zLSQ1GxZJJnCFBtVsKI4P+ovnY2aUJp5XY2JkBncInx+0LwQyFZgBiGUI/QxpV1XxfH/xeEEsEAyhAAAAADABAQAAAAAAMAERAFAAAAAwCAEP////9AAAcwABBWnh0UvgFAAAgwABBWnh0UvgELAACACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAADhQAAAAAAAAMAAoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABCFAAAAAAAAAwAFgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAUoUAALcNAAAeACWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABUhQAAAQAAAAQAAAA4LjAAAwAmgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAAYUAAAAAAAALAC+ACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAOhQAAAAAAAAMAMIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABGFAAAAAAAAAwAygAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAGIUAAAAAAAAeAEGACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA2hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgBCgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAN4UAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AQ4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADiFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAAMADTT9NwAAXL8= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE13F3.DC5CC300-- from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Nov 19 19:00:03 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Bamboo rodmaking only?/guide response Reed,Not to get too serious about this but-consider the fact that the x- sectionof the line flattens some what and the larger guides touch less of theline's full moon and or during the Leonid meteor showers. I remember that at theSouth Pole We had to use single foot guides as the coriolis was "0".- That'sthe empirial"we" you understand?:-)Regards,Hank. from ldavis@coweblink.net Thu Nov 19 19:00:23 1998 COWEBLINK1(MailMax 2.040) with ESMTP id 0 Subject: Re: source for cold-rooled steel -----Original Message----- Subject: source for cold-rooled steel Hi All,I am new to bamboo rod making. I am trying to find a source forcold- rolled steel to make planing forms. Does anybody knows a sourceforit?. Thank you for your help.Andy AndyJust make sure you check the price before ordering. I live in a small townwest of Denver and I ordered from a local steel shop. They had to ship it from Chicago. Cost me $65. Oh well!Lowell Davis from lblan@provide.net Thu Nov 19 19:31:43 1998 Subject: RE: source for cold-rooled steel Andy; where do you live? Grab the yellow pages and look for steel suppliers. Don't forget industrialdistributors such as J & L. Try to get prices from as many sources as possible. Many steel suppliers"specialize" to a certain extent. A company that specializes in bar stockwill offer a better price than a company that specializes in sheet stock.Many of them are general suppliers, and offer everything, their prices willnormally fall in the middle. -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 11:57 PM Subject: source for cold-rooled steel Hi All,I am new to bamboo rod making. I am trying to find a source forcold- rolled steel to make planing forms. Does anybody knows a sourceforit?. Thank you for your help.Andy from emiller257@dataflo.net Thu Nov 19 19:42:01 1998 wddataflo.dataflo.net(8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA07474 for ;Thu, 19 Nov 1998 19:49:24 Subject: Re: Scary Sharp? Jerry Quinn wrote: Art Port wrote: George,Is http://www.jlsupply.com/jl/products/knives/knives.htm their page? If so they aren't listing the minutia they sell.Art At 05:34 PM 11/18/98 -0800, you wrote: hi again, i have a j&L catalog at work. if my old-timers diseasedoesn't flair up on me, i will get address/phone numbers for you. jerry J&L Industrial's phone number is 800-521-9520, the web site isunder developement. It's a good source for precision tools, carbide and lots of other stuff we use in rod building. I'm alittle prejudice 'cause I work there. Ed Moller from rcurry@top.monad.net Thu Nov 19 19:48:27 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo rodmaking only?/guide response FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: Reed,Not to get too serious about this but-consider the fact that the x- sectionof the line flattens some what and the larger guides touch less of theline'sx-section. As far as the coriolis effect it seems to be in affect duringthefull moon and or during the Leonid meteor showers. I remember that attheSouth Pole We had to use single foot guides as the coriolis was "0".-That'sthe empirial"we" you understand?:-)Regards,Hank.Hank,Um, the X- section of line would flatten out, except that in casting itis in almost constant tension, especially during the shoot. Perhaps somecivil (or uncivil) engineer in the audience can tell us what shape atube assumes under tension, but dollars to donuts, its a cylinder.Best regards,Reed from rcurry@top.monad.net Thu Nov 19 19:54:24 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo rodmaking only?/guide response John Zimny wrote: Correct. Two tangent circles of different sizes can only be tangent atonepoint. The use of the Johnson Magnetic is brilliant. Would you say thatyouhad "Gaussed" the hell out of your fishing pole?JohnJohn,Your Gauss is as good as mine. (I didn't type that, I didn't type that...)Best regards,Reed from rg-fish@home.com Thu Nov 19 19:55:55 1998 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA4190 0800 Subject: Re: Bamboo rodmaking only?/guide response Hank, And all these years I figured I was just a lousy fly caster, when it was thedamned earth moving and the Coriolis effect at fault. I wonder if the jumpcastwill eventually do for fly casting what the jump shot did for basketball? Theonly trouble with jump casting is that one of my legs has been dragginglatelyand I suspect it's more than gravity that's pulling on it.Renny See: http://zebu.uoregon.edu/~js/glossary/coriolis_effect.html FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: (snip) As far as the coriolis effect it seems to be in affect during thefull moon and or during the Leonid meteor showers. I remember that attheSouth Pole We had to use single foot guides as the coriolis was "0".-That'sthe empirial"we" you understand?:-) from bacon@idt.net Thu Nov 19 20:30:19 1998 Subject: Re: One Very Necessary Thing Steve Stillabower wrote: Hi Guys (and Gals), Whilst out tweaking my sorry excuse for a beveller, I neglected tofollowbasic, common sense rule of bamboo; WEAR LEATHER GLOVES OR OTHER FINGER/HAND PROTECTION!!!! I've now got a dandy new 1/2" slice on my left index finger from a splinethat went zzzziiipppppping thru the beveller :-( Not deep, but enoughblood to make a rather interesting color scheme on 1 spline Embarassed in Indy, Steve Oh, yea, a stock of band-aids are handy too Steve and Julie Stillabower, Indianapolis, INsjstill@iquest.net from jaquin@netsync.net Thu Nov 19 20:39:44 1998 quartz.netsync.net(8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA00535 for ;Thu, 19 Nov 1998 21:39:13-0500 Subject: Re: Scary Sharp? Jerry Quinn wrote: Art Port wrote: George,Is http://www.jlsupply.com/jl/products/knives/knives.htm their page? If so they aren't listing the minutia they sell.Art At 05:34 PM 11/18/98 -0800, you wrote: hi again, i have a j&L catalog at work. if my old-timers diseasedoesn't flair up on me, i will get address/phone numbers for you. jerryhi art, J&L Industrial- 1-800-521-9520 from bacon@idt.net Thu Nov 19 20:44:22 1998 Subject: Re: First impressions Steve wrote: ...will let you know how it goes offlist..the first day was certainly an eyeopener...and yes, i will "keepmine blades very sharp"jean Jean, I hope you will share your insights on the list. You may be able toopen our eyes to some new or different techniques. Regards, SteveIndependence, MOsteve,split my first culm last night, one of the funny things that myteacherused, was one of those little bitty baseball bats that they used to sell kids kinda used them as weapons now and then). that was his method tobang the knife into the culm to start the split, and also to bang outthe nodes on the inside..pretty cool..i'm learning!jean from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Thu Nov 19 22:12:38 1998 ix8.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Bamboo rodmaking only?/guide response Uummm....yeah! Reed,Not to get too serious about this but-consider the fact that the x- sectionof the line flattens some what and the larger guides touch less of theline'sx-section. As far as the coriolis effect it seems to be in affect duringthefull moon and or during the Leonid meteor showers. I remember that attheSouth Pole We had to use single foot guides as the coriolis was "0".-That'sthe empirial"we" you understand?:-)Regards,Hank. from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Fri Nov 20 00:59:24 1998 (5.5.2232.9) Subject: FW: Lost innocence and wooden forms -----Original Message-----From: Roberts, Michael Sent: Friday, 20 November 1998 12:19 Subject: Lost innocence and wooden forms Carsten, you were right. I was indeed referring to Tony "the 'orribleAussie" Young, although he seems a deceptively nice chap when you meethim. I read ,with disbelief, his post where he says he tried to offer mea way out before it was too late. Yeah sure. What he really did was lentme his copy of John Gierach's "Fishing Bamboo" and said something like"it'll be good to have another Aussie into this stuff". Now I'm so fargone that my next (second) rod is going to be a nodeless parabolic builton wooden forms. I even think that wooden forms are a good thing forthebeginning rodmaker. How's that for a diseased mind at work.Back before I started, and wasn't sure if I would continue to make rodsafter the first one, the cost of steel forms, either bought or homemade,was so high that I couldn't justify the outlay. Then I met Tony and youcan guess what he said. My wooden forms cost about US$20 and took adayto make. Rod number one, which is glued with Resourcinol, has such thinglue lines that even Tony was amazed. My point is that, although steelforms would be nice to have, it is possible for a beginner to make a finerod using the wood version. Alas I feel that my journey to the dark sideis nearly complete. May the trout be with you Mike Roberts from cmj@post11.tele.dk Fri Nov 20 04:17:01 1998 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0100 Subject: Sv: Lost innocence and wooden forms -----Original Message----- Subject: FW: Lost innocence and wooden forms Michael, you're a lost case; A paraholic using wooden forms!!! I'll let You inon a secret, butDONT tell anyone: I am there too. Even made a planing form a la Young. Niceman Tony gave a lotof good advice, and para's: They cant be beaten. Our Tony has a lot toanswer for, sitting downthere in Australia, leading people astray. This list sure is a good thing. regards, Carsten from jpsnbs@erols.com Fri Nov 20 05:20:40 1998 Subject: Re: Thanks again Jonathan, the two strip rod technique was featured in the most recentissueof The Planing Form. If you are interested in details I can send info offlist, however, I would encourage you to subscribe to this great newsletteras well.Joe Swamjpsnbs@erols.com-----Original Message----- Subject: Thanks again Thanks Listmembers, once again I had a huge response to my last post. Idon't have a great deal of money to invest just yet so I'm going to try tobuild some of my own tools as per the advice of many responders. I didlooseone message in a E-mail server crash which had something to do with atechnique for planing a two strip rod(whatever that means). I think thedesigners name was Richard Tyree. Anyway, If anyone has information ordesign details I would love to hear about it. It sounds like an economicalway to get a homemade cane pole in my hand. Also, I am building aworkbenchand I need to know if 2' x 6' will be enough room for rod-building. Thistruly is an awesome listserver. Jonathan Funk from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Nov 20 06:36:27 1998 Fri, 20 Nov 1998 20:35:54 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Sv: Lost innocence and wooden forms wugate.wustl.edu id GAA22149 On Fri, 20 Nov 1998, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Carsten_J=F8rgensen?= wrote: -----Original Message-----From: Roberts, Michael Date: Friday, November 20, 1998 8:05 AMSubject: FW: Lost innocence and wooden forms Michael, you're a lost case; A paraholic using wooden forms!!! I'll let Youin on a secret,but DONT tell anyone: I am there too. Even made a planing form a la Young.Nice man Tony gave alot of good advice, and para's: They cant be beaten. Our Tony has a lot toanswer for, sittingdown there in Australia, leading people astray. This list sure is a goodthing. regards, Carsten Stage One of world domination. Guys, no more please or else I'll start believing all this nice stuff. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from anglport@con2.com Fri Nov 20 07:34:53 1998 Subject: RE: Impregnation/Leonard John,NOW I get your meaning.Art At 07:35 PM 11/19/98 -0500, you wrote: -----Original Message-----From: J. C. Zimny [SMTP:jczimny@dol.net]Sent: Thursday, November 19, 1998 6:40 PM Subject: RE: Impregnation/Leonard Duracane was made by Sharps of Aberdeen. I don't know of anyimpregnatedrods the Leonard actually made.John from anglport@con2.com Fri Nov 20 07:40:12 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo rodmaking only?/guide response Hank,I never saw anyone cast cane through a hole in the ice. I alwaysthoughtyou were limited to those little things with flags on them. How far back from the "interface" does one stand when casting so as not to spook thefish? Also,....get any?Art .... I remember that at theSouth Pole We had to use single foot guides as the coriolis was "0".-That'sthe empirial"we" you understand?:-)Regards,Hank. from LUU@NMDHST.CC.NIH.GOV Fri Nov 20 08:30:11 1998 Subject: Thank you MR.(s) Penrose, Crenshaw, Lowell, and Blan Hello Sirs,Thank you very much for your advice on the source for cold-rolled steel. Iam reluctant to have steel shipped to Northern Virginia. It may cost memore than what I planned on spending. I will keep looking.Andy from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Fri Nov 20 09:13:04 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id JAA21013 for; Fri, (8.8.4/8.6.8) with SMTP idJAA03391 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:12:54 Subject: Swelled butts Someone recently asked about how to plane strips for swelled butts,whether you could do it with regular planing forms or instead witha separate form. I've been watching for answers to this since I wanted to try it myself, but I haven't seen any replies. Maybenobody hand planes swelled butts anymore?......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Fri Nov 20 09:28:25 1998 KAA20525 Subject: RE: Swelled butts It's a good thing we all know what a "swelled butt" means! Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, November 20, 1998 10:13 AM Subject: Swelled butts Someone recently asked about how to plane strips for swelledbutts,whether you could do it with regular planing forms orinstead witha separate form. I've been watching for answers to thissince I wanted to try it myself, but I haven't seen any replies.Maybenobody hand planes swelled butts anymore? ......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comradeis betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coatand a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." HenryVan Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck",1899. from Marty.Ball@noaa.gov Fri Nov 20 09:34:58 1998 RFC822 Gateway); Fri, 20Nov 1998 10:34:18 -0500Content-Identifier: 031CD36558BF8030Content-Return: Allowed Subject: Unknown wood/cane rod I am looking to the list for help in finding information on an old cane rod shown to me by a friend. The rod has no discernible markings. It is a 3 piece with two tips. Thebutt section is circular not hexagonal and is apparently made of wood. Thefinish istoo dark to see the type of wood clearly. The guides are of the ring type. The ferrules are apparently nickel silver and of the socket type. The portionof the ferrule that fits over the blank is hexagonal and it appears that the ferrules may have been constructed by making the tube by wrapping andsoldering a sheet of nickel silver. There are numerous intermediate wrappings ofdark thread on the cane sections of the rod. The handle is wood, inlayed intocork or other wood rings. The reel seat is nickel silver with a single slidingband and fine knurling. The rod came in an elaborate wooden case with holesbored lengthwise to hold each section of the rod. The wood patterning of thecase matches the patterning of the rod handle. I assume that the rod is from an early era and it seems to have been madewith elaborate care. Can anyone help me date it and is there any hope of the makers? The rod is of course a garage sale find of unknownprovenance. Thanks Marty Ball from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Nov 20 09:43:55 1998 Subject: Impregnation with Acrylic To all, This talk about impregnation got me to thinking about something thatTerryAckland said about coating rods with acrylic, a technique which he chosenot to share with the list. Still, companies out there do make acrylicimpregnated wood products some of which you may have seen on reelseats. Has anyone experimented with acrylic resins for impregnation? I realizethat there was an article in the Planing Form some years ago. The detailswere sketchy and my attempts to secure the resins were unsuccessful.TheWes Jordan book has an excellent description of how Orvis accomplishedthedeed. I was just wondering if other folks had tried acrylic and what weretheir results. regards, Don from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Nov 20 09:48:23 1998 Subject: All you nodeless types Hi there, Have broken many strips in fun and always the cane fails between thenodes.Seems like we should be making rods of all nodes and throwing the otherpart away. Maybe you guys got it backwards. Just a thought, Don from Anachemrpo@aol.com Fri Nov 20 09:52:32 1998 Subject: Re: Swelled butts I know in his literature Frank Armbruster of Colrado Bootstrap says thathisforms can accomodate the planing of swelled butts.Anyone with a set of his forms might have some confirmation orexperience ofthat. Usual disclaimer stuff. Russ L. from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Fri Nov 20 10:13:25 1998 LAA01974 Subject: RE: Unknown wood/cane rod Marty, this rod is not of any value WHAT SO EVER. Since I hate to see anybrother angler throw away money, just let me know what you paid for thisjunker, I will send you a check. Send the rod to me so I can stalk mytomatoes! Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, November 20, 1998 10:34 AM Subject: Unknown wood/cane rod I am looking to the list for help in finding information onan old cane rod shown to me by a friend. The rod has no discernible markings. It is a 3 piece withtwo tips. The butt section is circular not hexagonal and is apparently made ofwood. The finish istoo dark to see the type of wood clearly. The guides are ofthe ring type. The ferrules are apparently nickel silver and of the sockettype. The portion of the ferrule that fits over the blank is hexagonal and itappears that the ferrules may have been constructed by making the tube bywrapping and soldering a sheet of nickel silver. There are numerous intermediatewrappings of dark thread on the cane sections of the rod. The handle is wood,inlayed into cork or other wood rings. The reel seat is nickel silver with asingle sliding band and fine knurling. The rod came in an elaborate wooden casewith holes bored lengthwise to hold each section of the rod. The woodpatterning of the case matches the patterning of the rod handle. I assume that the rod is from an early era and it seems tohave been made with elaborate care. Can anyone help me date it and is there anyhope of identifyingthe makers? The rod is of course a garage sale find ofunknown provenance. Thanks Marty Ball from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Fri Nov 20 10:19:57 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id KAA30760 for; Fri, (8.8.4/8.6.8) with SMTP idKAA22688 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:19:43 Subject: Re: All you nodeless types Would you then advise a beginner to place nodes as close as possibleto the tiptop and ferrules? from thinking about this with my little pea brain, here is how Ithink nodeless works. Nodes are stiffer and stronger than theinternodal areas. But because they are so, when a strip with nodesis bent a certain degree (say to an arc with a certain radius), the bending is not uniform. The stress of the bending is MORECONCENTRATED between the nodes than it would be in a nodeless stripof the same dimension. Thus, the strip with nodes will actually breakBEFORE the nodeless. This should be a testable hypothesis. Maybe someone with ME trainingcan put it better.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Fri, 20 Nov 1998, Don Andersen wrote: Hi there, Have broken many strips in fun and always the cane fails between thenodes.Seems like we should be making rods of all nodes and throwing the otherpart away. Maybe you guys got it backwards. Just a thought, Don from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Nov 20 10:29:15 1998 Subject: Re: Swelled butts In a message dated 11/20/98 7:17:20 AM Pacific Standard Time,stetzer@csd.uwm.edu writes: Someone recently asked about how to plane strips for swelled butts,whether you could do it with regular planing forms or instead witha separate form. I've been watching for answers to this since I wanted to try it myself, but I haven't seen any replies. Maybenobody hand planes swelled butts anymore? Two ways that you can make a swelled butt:Plane the strips wider at that point, and the ColoradoBootstrap forms have set screws at 2 1/2 inches for ashort section to be able to do swelled butts. Garrisonhad a form that had the end section filed wider to dothis. It's in the Carmicael/Garrison book. Make inserts that wedge between the strips to swell thebutt. This can make a very striking looking rod if you usecontrasting wood for the inserts. Darryl from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Nov 20 10:30:20 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Bamboo rodmaking only?/guide response Renny,It's Reed ,not me ,that's pulling your leg-I'm always serious. :- )Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Nov 20 10:30:23 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Bamboo rodmaking only?/guide response John and Reed,Two things to consider: 1.-There seems to be empirical evidence thatlargerguides (up to a point) give better shootability and 2.-while the theory ofone point touching of two tangent circles is correct the very fact of theline touching the guides will flatten the x-section whether it's in tensionornot.This can go on forever :-)Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Nov 20 10:30:44 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Bamboo rodmaking only?/guide response Art,We stood about 12000 mm away while facing the midnight sun-no wedidn't getany-probably due to the fact that immitating plancton is very difficult.Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Nov 20 10:30:46 1998 Subject: Re: Thank you MR.(s) Penrose, Crenshaw, Lowell, and Blan Andy,I had some Garrison type forms made in Winchester, Va. some time ago.Perhaps they may sell you some cold rolled steel. Their telephone no. is540662-9095 and their name is Fabritek. Ask for Robert Hahn. BTW-where areyou inNo. Va? I'm between Middleburg and The Plains.Regards,Hank Woolman. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Nov 20 10:32:45 1998 Subject: Re: Swelled butts Frank,The only swelled butt I know about was after the snake bit me.Regards,Hank-ate off the mantlepiece for a week-Woolman. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Nov 20 10:34:25 1998 Sat, 21 Nov 1998 00:33:55 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Swelled butts On Fri, 20 Nov 1998, Frank Stetzer wrote: Someone recently asked about how to plane strips for swelled butts,whether you could do it with regular planing forms or instead witha separate form. I've been watching for answers to this since I wanted to try it myself, but I haven't seen any replies. Maybenobody hand planes swelled butts anymore? I do a couple of rods with swollen butts. Adjust your forms out as moch as you can and see if you can get the desired taper, otherwise and I hate to say it make a set of wooed forms for the task. Tony ......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Nov 20 10:37:12 1998 Sat, 21 Nov 1998 00:36:12 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: All you nodeless types On Fri, 20 Nov 1998, Don Andersen wrote: Hi there, Have broken many strips in fun and always the cane fails between thenodes.Seems like we should be making rods of all nodes and throwing the otherpart away. Maybe you guys got it backwards. Just a thought, Don Maybe, but what a job it'd be to plane! Still it's not the strength we're after. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Nov 20 10:42:40 1998 Sat, 21 Nov 1998 00:42:12 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: All you nodeless types I wouldn't worry too much about the rod breaking anywhere. IMHO making a rod nodeless has little or to my mind nothing at all to do with strength but all to do with action which as in all things bamboo is a debatable thing as well as ease of planing and heat treating, again a debatable comment as you still need to cut the nodes out and scarf the splines. Tony On Fri, 20 Nov 1998, Frank Stetzer wrote: Would you then advise a beginner to place nodes as close as possibleto the tiptop and ferrules? from thinking about this with my little pea brain, here is how Ithink nodeless works. Nodes are stiffer and stronger than the