internodal areas. But because they are so, when a strip with nodesis bent a certain degree (say to an arc with a certain radius), the bending is not uniform. The stress of the bending is MORECONCENTRATED between the nodes than it would be in a nodeless stripof the same dimension. Thus, the strip with nodes will actually breakBEFORE the nodeless. This should be a testable hypothesis. Maybe someone with ME trainingcan put it better.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Fri, 20 Nov 1998, Don Andersen wrote: Hi there, Have broken many strips in fun and always the cane fails between thenodes.Seems like we should be making rods of all nodes and throwing theotherpart away. Maybe you guys got it backwards. Just a thought, Don /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Nov 20 10:44:29 1998 Sat, 21 Nov 1998 00:43:46 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Swelled butts On Fri, 20 Nov 1998 FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: Frank,The only swelled butt I know about was after the snake bit me.Regards,Hank-ate off the mantlepiece for a week-Woolman. :-)))))))))) bump! Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from Ed.Estlow@co.hennepin.mn.us Fri Nov 20 11:50:09 1998 1998 17:49:26 UT v4.6.2 (651.2 6-10-1998)) Subject: Re: All you nodeless types If the node is acting as a stress concentrator, concentrating the stressbetween the nodes by virtue of its being stiffer (and stronger), then yes Ican see where a strip with nodes could break first. Lots of things enterin, however. For instance, stiffer, stronger things are more brittle andcan thus break sooner under certain circumstances. Also, where along thestrip's line of curvature is/are the node(s) in question. This was alludedto by your question of putting nodes near the tip top. Best regards,-Ed (not ME, but aerospace) Estlow stetzer@csd.uwm.edu on 11/20/98 11:24:21 AM Subject: Re: All you nodeless types Would you then advise a beginner to place nodes as close as possibleto the tiptop and ferrules? from thinking about this with my little pea brain, here is how Ithink nodeless works. Nodes are stiffer and stronger than theinternodal areas. But because they are so, when a strip with nodesis bent a certain degree (say to an arc with a certain radius),the bending is not uniform. The stress of the bending is MORECONCENTRATED between the nodes than it would be in a nodeless stripof the same dimension. Thus, the strip with nodes will actually breakBEFORE the nodeless. This should be a testable hypothesis. Maybe someone with ME trainingcan put it better.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Fri, 20 Nov 1998, Don Andersen wrote: Hi there, Have broken many strips in fun and always the cane fails between thenodes.Seems like we should be making rods of all nodes and throwing the otherpart away. Maybe you guys got it backwards. Just a thought, Don from arnold_jeff@hotmail.com Fri Nov 20 12:17:43 1998 Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:17:03 PST Subject: Swelled Butts Question #2 Has anyone built a swelled butt model of say a Sir D taper? Or another popular taper? How did it affect the action of the rod? Could this be modeled in a program such as Hexrod? Thanks, Jeff Arnold ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Nov 20 12:34:23 1998 Subject: Re: Swelled Butts Question #2 In a message dated 11/20/98 10:19:44 AM Pacific Standard Time,arnold_jeff@hotmail.com writes: Has anyone built a swelled butt model of say a Sir D taper? Or another popular taper? How did it affect the action of the rod? Could this be modeled in a program such as Hexrod? The area under the handle doesn't do much to affect the action unless you have something like a Paul Young parabolic. On most rods, aside from affecting the weight distribution or balance point,swelling the butt won't affect the action much. It's mostly forappearance. Darryl from rclarke@eou.edu Fri Nov 20 12:54:27 1998 Subject: Re: Swelled Butts Question #2 I have a Heddon Peerless with a swelled butt that seams to move theactionout from the handle. Is this an accurate description of what a swelledbutt does? Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: SalarFly@aol.com Subject: Re: Swelled Butts Question #2Date: Friday, November 20, 1998 10:29 AM In a message dated 11/20/98 10:19:44 AM Pacific Standard Time,arnold_jeff@hotmail.com writes: Has anyone built a swelled butt model of say a Sir D taper? Or another popular taper? How did it affect the action of the rod? Could this be modeled in a program such as Hexrod? The area under the handle doesn't do much to affect the action unless you have something like a Paul Young parabolic. On most rods, aside from affecting the weight distribution or balance point,swelling the butt won't affect the action much. It's mostly forappearance. Darryl from anglport@con2.com Fri Nov 20 12:54:29 1998 Subject: Re: Thank you MR.(s) Penrose, Crenshaw, Lowell, and Blan Andy, I don't know your local geography and I haven't dealt personally with theseguys but I have catalogs for: Blue Ridge Machinery and ToolsHurricane WV1-800-872-6500 and Nolan Supply CorpMebane NC1-800-300-6390 If they're close enough to travel to, they both stock metals.Art At 10:30 PM 11/18/98 -0400, you wrote:Hello Sirs,Thank you very much for your advice on the source for cold-rolled steel. Iam reluctant to have steel shipped to Northern Virginia. It may cost memore than what I planned on spending. I will keep looking.Andy from LUU@NMDHST.CC.NIH.GOV Fri Nov 20 12:59:29 1998 Subject: Re: Thank you MR.(s) Penrose, Crenshaw, Lowell, and Blan Hello Mr. Woolman,I live in fairfax area of Northern Virginia, about 90 minutes drive toWinchester. Perhaps it will be a well worth drive to Fabritek thisweekend. Thank you for the informations.Andy Andy,I had some Garrison type forms made in Winchester, Va. some time ago.Perhaps they may sell you some cold rolled steel. Their telephone no. is540662-9095 and their name is Fabritek. Ask for Robert Hahn. BTW- whereare you inNo. Va? I'm between Middleburg and The Plains.Regards,Hank Woolman. from MasjC1@aol.com Fri Nov 20 14:34:25 1998 Subject: Re: Swelled butts I use Franks form, but have not done any rods with swelled butts. Theformsare fitted with intermediate set screws between the 7th and 11th 5"centeredset screws to allow the forms to be set up for swelled butts. Mark Cole from FlyTyr@southshore.com Fri Nov 20 14:47:35 1998 natco.southshore.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) withESMTP id OAA09927 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 199814:48:59 -0600 Subject: Question This is part of a message I got . I sent what info I knew about thestore but have no info on the rod. Would like to know more about it.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com My mother found a fly rod at a garage sale. 5 pieces.Called Abercrombie & Fitch safari rod. Says a70 on theside nothing else. Isn't that a retail store?Ever heard of it or the rod? from jczimny@dol.net Fri Nov 20 14:49:38 1998 -0500 Subject: RE: Impregnation with Acrylic =_NextPart_000_01BE149C.3C596DA0" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE149C.3C596DA0 Don,Some of the blanks coming to North America from England are acrylic =impregnated. Gary Dabrowski had and article in the PF about it and even =gave sources of resins. I see no reason why any number of resins should =not work as well or better than the phenolics.John Z -----Original Message----- Subject: Impregnation with Acrylic To all, This talk about impregnation got me to thinking about something that =TerryAckland said about coating rods with acrylic, a technique which he chosenot to share with the list. Still, companies out there do make acrylicimpregnated wood products some of which you may have seen on reelseats. = Has anyone experimented with acrylic resins for impregnation? I realizethat there was an article in the Planing Form some years ago. The =detailswere sketchy and my attempts to secure the resins were unsuccessful.TheWes Jordan book has an excellent description of how Orvis accomplished =thedeed. I was just wondering if other folks had tried acrylic and what =weretheir results. regards, Don------ =_NextPart_000_01BE149C.3C596DA0 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE149C.3C596DA0-- from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Fri Nov 20 16:25:18 1998 Subject: RE: Impregnation with Acrylic Don & JohnThe impregnation idea has intrigued me for a while. In early October Igot a chance to renew a friendship with an individual who deals inresins. Early this week I called him and we talked over several ideas.We discussed what has been done in the past by soaking the cane in waterand then a water/bakelite solution and baking. His comment was that thewater and resins that he deals with would not mix. We discussed several maybe even a sample of some resins. I hope to experiment with some ofthis during the winter. I will keep the list informed if I find outanything.Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net from hhholland@erols.com Fri Nov 20 16:47:19 1998 Subject: Re: Swelled butts Hank,An old girlfriend of mine in Arizona sat on a scorpion once. Created asimilar problem. As I remember it, there was a lot of interestingdiscussion of where to apply a tourniquet.Regards,Hank H. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Swelled butts Frank,The only swelled butt I know about was after the snake bit me.Regards,Hank-ate off the mantlepiece for a week-Woolman. from drinkr@voicenet.com Fri Nov 20 17:52:41 1998 0000 (207.103.143.30) Subject: oven thermostats boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01BE14B6.AFBF3620" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01BE14B6.AFBF3620 I have been looking at a universal oven thermostat that I purchased for myCatt style oven. The directions are not clear on how to set it up for use.If anyone can guide me through the wiring I would be grateful. Right now Iam looking at two terminals extending out of the thermostat and have nocluehow to connect them to work. The thermostat was built by Gem Productspartno. GR203. Thanks in advance....David Rinker ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01BE14B6.AFBF3620 been looking at a universal oven thermostat that I purchased for my Catt = looking at two terminals extending out of the thermostat and have no = connect them to work. The thermostat was built by Gem Products part no.= Thanks in advance....David Rinker ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01BE14B6.AFBF3620-- from tomchandler@earthlink.net Fri Nov 20 18:02:39 1998 Subject: Para-16 taper... I've looked all over and can't seem to find a taper for the PHY Para-16. Iwonder if anyone has a reliable version of it for me. Thanks! TC from rclarke@eou.edu Fri Nov 20 18:28:41 1998 Subject: Re: oven thermostats David, I am no electrician, but this is what I did. Take your power source (two wires from an electrical cord). One wirefromthat cord should be connected to your thermostat(should not make adifference which wire, or which prong of the thermostat). The other prongof the thermostat should have a high temperature wire going from it toyourheat source (I used a mica strip heater per Wayne's specs). You shouldhave a second prong or bolt on your heat source that should have anotherhigh temp wire coming from it. That wire should be connected to yoursecond wire from your electrical cord (power source). I used an electricalbox that I attached to the outside of the shroud to hold the thermostat andthe connection between high temp wire and electrical cord (secondconnection mentioned). You most likely will have a ground wire as well,and I connected mine to the electrical box. You should also have a hole box. Make sure the electrical cord you use is pretty heavy. I found oneat a hardware store that costs about $5. Also, the high temperature wireis a MUST. You can probably get it at the place you got your thermostat. Think about the layout, and it should make pretty good sense to you. Letme know if I can offer more assistance. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ---------- Subject: oven thermostats I have been looking at a universal oven thermostat that I purchased for myCatt style oven. The directions are not clear on how to set it up for use.If anyone can guide me through the wiring I would be grateful. Right now Iam looking at two terminals extending out of the thermostat and have nocluehow to connect them to work. The thermostat was built by Gem Productspartno. GR203. Thanks in advance....David Rinker from sshorb@ozip.net Fri Nov 20 18:44:25 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-55785U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Fri, 20 Nov 1998 18:44:53 -0600 Subject: Re: Impregnation with Acrylic Dick; Since you plan on a little experimentation, many years ago I readsomething about how they impregnate building posts. They put the liquidand the post in a box, draw a vacuum, then immerse the post in theliquid, then release the vacuum allowing atmospheric pressure to forcethe liquid into the post. Don't know if this can be done with bamboo ornot. Can't remember any of the details. Skip from jkallo@midwest.net Fri Nov 20 18:48:16 1998 Subject: Re: Question Hey Tony,I dunno what sort of rod this is, but A&F apparently carried prettygoodgear in bygone days. I think their cane rods were made by Leonard (at leastat one point). I know that their cane rods higher end reels fetch highprices on the online auction market (Ebay). If anyone else has specificinfo about old A&F rods, I'd also like to know. Best,Joe At 02:49 PM 11/20/98 -0600, you wrote:This is part of a message I got . I sent what info I knew about thestore but have no info on the rod. Would like to know more about it.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com My mother found a fly rod at a garage sale. 5 pieces.Called Abercrombie & Fitch safari rod. Says a70 on theside nothing else. Isn't that a retail store?Ever heard of it or the rod? Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Nov 20 18:56:21 1998 Sat, 21 Nov 1998 08:56:07 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Swelled Butts Question #2 On Fri, 20 Nov 1998 SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 11/20/98 10:19:44 AM Pacific Standard Time,arnold_jeff@hotmail.com writes: Has anyone built a swelled butt model of say a Sir D taper? Or another popular taper? How did it affect the action of the rod? Could this be modeled in a program such as Hexrod? The area under the handle doesn't do much to affect the action unless you have something like a Paul Young parabolic. On most rods, aside from affecting the weight distribution or balance point,swelling the butt won't affect the action much. It's mostly forappearance. Darryl I found when I swelled the butt of the WC7625 the length of cast seemed to be reduced a little (hardly any). However it didn't affect the other charistics at all. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Nov 20 18:59:21 1998 Sat, 21 Nov 1998 08:59:12 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Swelled Butts Question #2 On Fri, 20 Nov 1998, Robert Clarke wrote: I have a Heddon Peerless with a swelled butt that seams to move theactionout from the handle. Is this an accurate description of what a swelledbutt does? Yes, in my last post re. wc7625 I mentioned the action didn't really alter but on thinking about it it does, becuasr you feel like you're casting a shorter rod with the same charistics. Difficult to explain but basicaly the rod behaves the same sort of way. Tony Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: SalarFly@aol.com Subject: Re: Swelled Butts Question #2Date: Friday, November 20, 1998 10:29 AM In a message dated 11/20/98 10:19:44 AM Pacific Standard Time,arnold_jeff@hotmail.com writes: Has anyone built a swelled butt model of say a Sir D taper? Oranother popular taper? How did it affect the action of the rod? Could this be modeled in a program such as Hexrod? The area under the handle doesn't do much to affect the action unless you have something like a Paul Young parabolic. On most rods, aside from affecting the weight distribution or balance point,swelling the butt won't affect the action much. It's mostly forappearance. Darryl /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from rcurry@top.monad.net Fri Nov 20 19:05:23 1998 Subject: Re: Swelled Butts Question #2 SalarFly@aol.com wrote:The area under the handle doesn't do much to affect the actionunless you have something like a Paul Young parabolic. On mostrods, aside from affecting the weight distribution or balance point,swelling the butt won't affect the action much. It's mostly forappearance. DarrylDarryl,Suppose I wanted a 7'6" rod that had the same action as a 7' rod ofwhich I had the taper? All I needed to do was add a swelled butt at the7' point and I would have such a rod. A swelled butt adds length whilemaintaining the essential delicacy and action of the rod. (Great forWetfly rods.)Gee, I wonder if F.E. Thomas ever thought of that? : )))Best regards,Reed from sjstill@iquest.net Fri Nov 20 19:13:17 1998 0000 (209.43.48.22) Subject: Making Quads HI All, Is there a way to take a standard Hex taper and transform it into a Quadtaper? I recall hearing something about Histand software, but I can'tlocate it. Anyone? Regards, Steve from Canerods@aol.com Fri Nov 20 19:52:47 1998 Subject: Re: Unknown wood/cane rod In a message dated 11/20/98 7:36:34 AM Pacific Standard Time,Marty.Ball@noaa.gov writes: I am looking to the list for help in finding information on an old cane rodshown to me by a friend. The rod has no discernible markings. It is a 3 piece with two tips. The butt section is circular not hexagonal and is apparently made of wood. The finish istoo dark to see the type of wood clearly. The guides are of the ring type. The ferrules are apparently nickel silver and of the socket type. The portion of the ferrule that fits over the blank is hexagonal and it appears that the ferrules may have been constructed by making the tube by wrapping and soldering a sheet of nickel silver. There are numerous intermediate wrappings ofdark thread on the cane sections of the rod. The handle is wood, inlayed into cork or other wood rings. The reel seat is nickel silver with a single sliding band and fine knurling. The rod came in an elaborate wooden case with holes bored lengthwise to hold each section of the rod. The wood patterning of thecase matches the patterning of the rod handle. I assume that the rod is from an early era and it seems to have beenmade with elaborate care. Can anyone help me date it and is there any hope of the makers? The rod is of course a garage sale find of unknownprovenance. Thanks Marty Ball Marty, If the ferrules have a hex-base (if without serrations too), then my guessisthat this is a Chubb Rod Company rod. Thomas Chubb patented that styleferrule. OBTW, Chubb was purchased by Montague and was used as their high-endrod name Montague's crap stuff. Michael Sinclair has some more details in his "Bamboo Rod RestorationHandbook". Don Burns from Canerods@aol.com Fri Nov 20 19:53:11 1998 Subject: Re: Question In a message dated 11/20/98 4:50:25 PM Pacific Standard Time,jkallo@midwest.net writes: Hey Tony,I dunno what sort of rod this is, but A&F apparently carried prettygoodgear in bygone days. I think their cane rods were made by Leonard (atleastat one point). I know that their cane rods higher end reels fetch highprices on the online auction market (Ebay). If anyone else has specificinfo about old A&F rods, I'd also like to know. Best,Joe Rods were made by Heddon, Edwards and maybe Payne and others too. All IMHO, Don Burns from Canerods@aol.com Fri Nov 20 19:53:36 1998 Subject: Re: FW: Lost innocence and wooden forms In a message dated 11/19/98 11:05:59 PM Pacific Standard Time,Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au writes: Date: 11/19/98 11:05:59 PM Pacific Standard TimeFrom: Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au (Roberts, Michael)Sender: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu -----Original Message-----From: Roberts, Michael Sent: Friday, 20 November 1998 12:19 Subject: Lost innocence and wooden forms Carsten, you were right. I was indeed referring to Tony "the 'orribleAussie" Young, although he seems a deceptively nice chap when youmeethim. I read ,with disbelief, his post where he says he tried to offermea way out before it was too late. Yeah sure. What he really did waslentme his copy of John Gierach's "Fishing Bamboo" and said something like"it'll be good to have another Aussie into this stuff". Now I'm so fargone that my next (second) rod is going to be a nodeless parabolic builton wooden forms. I even think that wooden forms are a good thing forthebeginning rodmaker. How's that for a diseased mind at work.Back before I started, and wasn't sure if I would continue to make rodsafter the first one, the cost of steel forms, either bought orhomemade,was so high that I couldn't justify the outlay. Then I met Tony and youcan guess what he said. My wooden forms cost about US$20 and took adayto make. Rod number one, which is glued with Resourcinol, has suchthinglue lines that even Tony was amazed. My point is that, although steelforms would be nice to have, it is possible for a beginner to make afinerod using the wood version. Alas I feel that my journey to the darksideis nearly complete. May the trout be with you Mike Roberts Oh no, not 2 aussie nodeless Para-rodbuilders. Don Burns from jczimny@dol.net Fri Nov 20 20:00:40 1998 -0500 Subject: RE: Making Quads =_NextPart_000_01BE14C7.9EFED1E0" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE14C7.9EFED1E0 Yes, the basic computation is area. The four-sided rod's outer =measurement is 93.1% that of the six. To achieve the same cross =sectional area. However, this often leads to poor results. One might do =better by following equal stress curves and derive the dimensions from =that.John -----Original Message----- Subject: Making Quads HI All, Is there a way to take a standard Hex taper and transform it into a Quadtaper? I recall hearing something about Histand software, but I can'tlocate it. Anyone? Regards, Steve ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE14C7.9EFED1E0 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE14C7.9EFED1E0-- from jczimny@dol.net Fri Nov 20 20:00:41 1998 -0500 Subject: RE: Impregnation with Acrylic =_NextPart_000_01BE14C7.9AAC8EC0" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE14C7.9AAC8EC0 Please keep us informed on your work. I'd like to try it myself.Thanks,John -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Impregnation with Acrylic Don & JohnThe impregnation idea has intrigued me for a while. In early October Igot a chance to renew a friendship with an individual who deals inresins. Early this week I called him and we talked over several ideas.We discussed what has been done in the past by soaking the cane in waterand then a water/bakelite solution and baking. His comment was that thewater and resins that he deals with would not mix. We discussed several maybe even a sample of some resins. I hope to experiment with some ofthis during the winter. I will keep the list informed if I find outanything.Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE14C7.9AAC8EC0 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE14C7.9AAC8EC0-- from arnold_jeff@hotmail.com Fri Nov 20 20:21:58 1998 Fri, 20 Nov 1998 18:21:24 PST Subject: Setting Planing Forms for Final Dimensions I am building the Sir D/ Wanye C. 7' 4 wt. as my first rod. I am at the stage where I'm within .005" from final.....or am I? If the measurment from flat-to-flat is .300", then one strip is .150" from flat-to-pith side apex. Should the form be set for .150" or should it be smaller to allow for glue or finish? I don't want to remove to much cane but I also don't want a 5 or 6 wt. rod either, at least not by accident. TIA, Jeff ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Fri Nov 20 21:12:58 1998 0600 Subject: Re: Setting Planing Forms for Final Dimensions Jeff,If you have removed all the enamel, then set your forms at .150, and cutyour strips to .150 to get a dimension of .300 across the flats.If, though, you have left a trace of enamel to assist in removing theglue from the outside of the blank, then you will want to set your formsslightly oversize. For example, if you have just a haze of enamelremaining, set the forms to .151 for the same target dimensions. Whenyouremove the last of the enamel with the glue, your strips should be "rightonthe money."What you are looking for is strips that with no enamel measure exactlyone-half the target dimension. If your measuring is accurate after finalplaning, then most glues will add only infinitesimally (.0005 - .001) toyour measurements. Tapers are usually given for bare blanks, withoutfinish. Hope this helps,Harry Boyd Jeff Arnold wrote: I am building the Sir D/ Wanye C. 7' 4 wt. as my first rod. I am at thestage where I'm within .005" from final.....or am I? from maxs@geocities.co.jp Fri Nov 20 21:24:05 1998 geocities.co.jp(8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id MAA17568 for; Sat, 21Nov 1998 12:24:01 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: All you nodeless types Hi all, We have to understand the node of the cane correctly.At node, the internodal fibers are not connected between two connectedinternodal cane sections (after splitted off)since they get into the node flap and come out at different place of thenode. Node organization is the mixture of vertical and horizontal fibers and pith. Power fibercomes up from below and turned perpendicular angle into the node flap and gets out of there and goes upto next cane section.It is sure that when the cane is not split, as it lives in nature, thenode will thus stop the split of one cane section not to be continues onto next section, and prevent entire lengthof the cane from being broken at middle.This is another reason why we cannot split the cane straight at the nodesometimes. But think about our process, we get rid of the most of the node flap andpith (by base ball bat sometimes) andfiles out the surface of the nodes. On the planed strip, nodes havealready took most of the power offand the fibers are not connected at the both side of a node. Then I am curious, how the strips were tried to be broken. Was it thesplit cane with pith attached or Was it theplaned strip? Then how the splits were bent? By holding both edge ofthe cane and tried to bend untilit was broken? Or tried to bend rather short length of splits atvarious points including node part? Was a force from perpendicular direction put at the point of the node like the edge of ferrule tries to bend the blank? Was the test madebetween aged cane and non aged?Was the experiment made among various size of dimensioned splits? Thethinner the dimension, the weaker does the node became? Without answering to all those questions, it might not be appropriate tosay the nodelessdoes not have rational IMHO.I do not believe that nodeless is stronger than with nodeful. But I do believe that nodeless splits may have a smoother bend, smoother transition of force with rather equal strength along the entire strips,that it's. Problem might lies in the strength of the glue instead. To close this discussion, actual strength test is needed as Frankmentioned. I would try this when I have excess of cut out ofthe strips next time. When it is found that node is stronger thanfiber portion, it is very nice to have no staggeredbamboo rod which appearance is like natural cane with node. I can say from another reason that do not place nodes near tip top.Otherwise it is easy to have a tip with dog leg at node portion which ishardly corrected even using iron or whatever. Sorry to be long. Max Ed.Estlow@co.hennepin.mn.us wrote: If the node is acting as a stress concentrator, concentrating the stressbetween the nodes by virtue of its being stiffer (and stronger), then yesIcan see where a strip with nodes could break first. Lots of things enterin, however. For instance, stiffer, stronger things are more brittle andcan thus break sooner under certain circumstances. Also, where alongthestrip's line of curvature is/are the node(s) in question. This was alludedto by your question of putting nodes near the tip top. Best regards,-Ed (not ME, but aerospace) Estlow stetzer@csd.uwm.edu on 11/20/98 11:24:21 AM cc: (bcc: Ed Estlow/Hennepin) Subject: Re: All you nodeless types Would you then advise a beginner to place nodes as close as possibleto the tiptop and ferrules? from thinking about this with my little pea brain, here is how Ithink nodeless works. Nodes are stiffer and stronger than theinternodal areas. But because they are so, when a strip with nodesis bent a certain degree (say to an arc with a certain radius),the bending is not uniform. The stress of the bending is MORECONCENTRATED between the nodes than it would be in a nodeless stripof the same dimension. Thus, the strip with nodes will actually breakBEFORE the nodeless. This should be a testable hypothesis. Maybe someone with ME trainingcan put it better.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Fri, 20 Nov 1998, Don Andersen wrote: Hi there, Have broken many strips in fun and always the cane fails between thenodes.Seems like we should be making rods of all nodes and throwing theotherpart away. Maybe you guys got it backwards. Just a thought, Don -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from drinkr@voicenet.com Fri Nov 20 21:36:25 1998 0000 (207.103.143.64) Subject: RE: oven thermostats Thanks Robert. Ill try your connections tomorrow. My only other questionwould be where is the ground connected? from the shroud to thethermostat?David Rinker -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, November 20, 1998 7:27 PM Subject: Re: oven thermostats David, I am no electrician, but this is what I did. Take your power source (two wires from an electrical cord). One wirefromthat cord should be connected to your thermostat(should not make adifference which wire, or which prong of the thermostat). The otherprongof the thermostat should have a high temperature wire going fromit to yourheat source (I used a mica strip heater per Wayne's specs). You shouldhave a second prong or bolt on your heat source that should have anotherhigh temp wire coming from it. That wire should be connected to yoursecond wire from your electrical cord (power source). I used anelectricalbox that I attached to the outside of the shroud to hold thethermostat andthe connection between high temp wire and electrical cord (secondconnection mentioned). You most likely will have a ground wire as well,and I connected mine to the electrical box. You should also have a hole box. Make sure the electrical cord you use is pretty heavy. I found oneat a hardware store that costs about $5. Also, the high temperaturewireis a MUST. You can probably get it at the place you got yourthermostat. Think about the layout, and it should make pretty good sense to you. Letme know if I can offer more assistance. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: David Rinker Subject: oven thermostatsDate: Friday, November 20, 1998 3:50 PM I have been looking at a universal oven thermostat that I purchased formyCatt style oven. The directions are not clear on how to set itup for use.If anyone can guide me through the wiring I would be grateful.Right now Iam looking at two terminals extending out of the thermostat and have nocluehow to connect them to work. The thermostat was built by Gem Productspartno. GR203. Thanks in advance....David Rinker from channer@hubwest.com Fri Nov 20 23:43:10 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A35B23E0124; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 22:44:59 MST Subject: Re: Thank you MR.(s) Penrose, Crenshaw, Lowell, and Blan At 10:30 PM 11/18/98 -0400, you wrote:Hello Sirs,Thank you very much for your advice on the source for cold-rolled steel. Iam reluctant to have steel shipped to Northern Virginia. It may cost memore than what I planned on spending. I will keep looking.Andy Andy;Any welding shop or fabricator should have 3/4" cold rolled steel in stock,or be able to get it without a big deal over it. If you live in a smalltown, check the phone book in the nearest city. John from Turbotrk@aol.com Sat Nov 21 00:08:29 1998 Subject: Re: Thank you MR.(s) Penrose, Crenshaw, Lowell, and Blan Andy, I bought mine today for $15.oo and tax. Look in the yellow pages and I betyou can do the same. stuart millersoon to be a rod builder with a lot of help from fine people from this page from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Sat Nov 21 03:14:35 1998 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id WAA06179 for ;Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:14:38+1300 Subject: Re: Impregnation with Acrylic Skip and Dick , This is how it works in theory but is harder in practise. The wood willtakeup the chemical at a different rate depending on the density of the wood..ie heart wood or sap wood. On this aspect bamboo should be quite good asitwill be a reasonably consistant density . The moisture content of the woodneeds to be monitored as if it is over about 13% some water stays in thewood and prevents or dilutes chemical penetration. Often a vacumn is applied after the fluid is drained away so as to extractsome of the chemical from the timber after primary treatment. The posttreatment vacuum is used to regulated the amount of chemical left in thetimber. If you are thinking of trying this Dick contact me off list and I can giveyou some more details of the process as it applies to timber . In theory it is very effective in achieving treatment of timber and shouldwork with bamboo. Iank At 06:46 PM 20/11/98 -0600, you wrote:Dick; Since you plan on a little experimentation, many years ago I readsomething about how they impregnate building posts. They put the liquidand the post in a box, draw a vacuum, then immerse the post in theliquid, then release the vacuum allowing atmospheric pressure to forcethe liquid into the post. Don't know if this can be done with bamboo ornot. Can't remember any of the details. Skip from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Sat Nov 21 03:14:36 1998 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id WAA06190 for ;Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:14:42+1300 Subject: Re: Setting Planing Forms for Final Dimensions Jeff, The action on a weight 6 , SirD/WayneC 7' rod is not bad at all. I know !!! Iank At 06:21 PM 20/11/98 PST, you wrote:I am building the Sir D/ Wanye C. 7' 4 wt. as my first rod. I am at the stage where I'm within .005" from final.....or am I? If the measurment from flat-to-flat is .300", then one strip is .150" from flat-to-pith side apex. Should the form be set for .150" or should it be smaller to allow for glue or finish? I don't want to remove to much cane but I also don't want a 5 or 6 wt. rod either, at least not by accident. TIA, Jeff ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Sat Nov 21 06:17:12 1998 with SMTP(MDaemon.v2.7.SP5i.R) for ; Sat, 21 Nov1998 07:18:21 -0500 Subject: Newbie Needs Help I am building my first rod under the watchful eye of an experiencedrodbuilder. The question I have is there any tricks for straightening thenodes/strips. I am having a problem with this phase of the process. Also, do any of you cut your strips after the initial splitting? Any and all advise would be greatly appreciated. Joe Byrd from saltwein@swbell.net Sat Nov 21 06:24:29 1998 GAA09856 Subject: Re: All you nodeless types Max, Very interesting observations. I am most impressed with your use of thelanguage, especially in the light of the fact that you have coined newphraseoloy that seems totally apropo! I will, from here on out, consider myself not a person who doesn't gonodeless, but rather a person who is "nodeful". Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from watson@cape-consult.co.uk Sat Nov 21 06:47:38 1998 Subject: Re: Fwd: Lathe Question to Joe E. It may be late (I've been away and am catching up on 400+ mails!) but I'vefound a useful UK site for lathes. It may not help with the buying bit buthe has some excellent advice on the different types and what you reallyneedand don't need. Take a look and see what you think - the site iswww.lathes.co.uk (NFI for me, family or anyone else I know!)Tim.-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Fwd: Lathe Question to Joe E. Dave made some very sound comments. I would commenthowever, that not everyone has room for a southbend. The morecustomers I meet, the more I realize a lot of folks out there arebuilding rods in apartments or houses. This is where the Sherlinesand the like are great. We need to get John Z. to speak up. Wehad a Sherline at Roscoe and were enlightened. Power feed, asaccurate as you want to make it, taper turning by a swingingheadstock...no need to go on. I would give my girlfriend in a trade pay for it to be moved every 9 months. Take care,Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277- 4510http://www.munrorodco.com from sjstill@iquest.net Sat Nov 21 08:46:17 1998 0000 (209.43.48.63) Subject: vacuum impregnation Hi All, Hesitant to jump in on this one, wayyyy over my head (and I'm 6'-6"). Neat article in "The Best of the Planing Form" on this veryprocess, complete with drawings! FWIW,Steve from sshorb@ozip.net Sat Nov 21 08:52:53 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-55785U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Sat, 21 Nov 1998 08:53:30 -0600 Subject: Re: vacuum impregnation Steve; What goes around, comes around. Great. Skip from channer@hubwest.com Sat Nov 21 08:57:47 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A5579600FC; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 07:59:35 MST Subject: Re: Newbie Needs Help At 07:17 AM 11/21/98 -0500, you wrote:I am building my first rod under the watchful eye of an experiencedrodbuilder. The question I have is there any tricks for straightening thenodes/strips. I am having a problem with this phase of the process. Also, do any of you cut your strips after the initial splitting? Any and all advise would be greatly appreciated. Joe Byrd Joe;Paul Whitely passed on a trick that has helped me a lot. Heat your nodesuntil they are quite limber, then put them in the vise enamel side up for 5seconds, then flip them enamel side to the vise and clamp down hard whileyou heat the next node. This will save having to heat the strips twice,which I found just let the original bend back into it. It also helps toflatten the strip if you use a half round file or a drum sander in a drillpress to make the back side of the node the same thickness as thesurrounding strip. As you may have noticed, nodes are thicker than theinternodal part of the strip. I use my drum sander as a "planer" to eventhe thickness of the entire strip, I just clamp a block with the cornerpointing at the drum with the distance between the point of the block andthe sanding drum the a hair smaller than the thinnest part of the stripsand run them thru with the pith side facing the drum. This will make thestrip a uniform thickness, but it will follow the enamel side contour, thenwhen you heat and vise, your strips will be flat. Hope this helps. John Channer from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sat Nov 21 09:38:15 1998 Subject: Re: All you nodeless types At 12:24 21/11/98 +0900, Max wrote: A bunch of ideas that I snipped. Max, It was not a scientific test by any means. Just broke a bunch of strips -some aged 15 or more years, some planed, some not, some large, somesmall,some tempered and some not - they all failed between the nodes.Like Ed says, the part that fails first is the weakest. Doesn't much matterhow the fibers line up or where the pith is or whatever.Node strength seems to be dogma and need further testing to determinewhatthe relative strengths of the internodal section vs the nodes might be.Would be a real shame to have all those nodes wasted that could makestronger and therefore lighter for the same OD rods regards, Don We have to understand the node of the cane correctly.At node, the internodal fibers are not connected between two connectedinternodal cane sections (after splitted off)since they get into the node flap and come out at different place of thenode. Node organization is the mixture of vertical and horizontal fibers and pith. Power fibercomes up from below and turned perpendicular angle into the node flap and gets out of there and goes upto next cane section.It is sure that when the cane is not split, as it lives in nature, thenode will thus stop the split of one cane section not to be continues onto next section, and prevent entire lengthof the cane from being broken at middle.This is another reason why we cannot split the cane straight at the nodesometimes. But think about our process, we get rid of the most of the node flap andpith (by base ball bat sometimes) andfiles out the surface of the nodes. On the planed strip, nodes havealready took most of the power offand the fibers are not connected at the both side of a node. Then I am curious, how the strips were tried to be broken. Was it thesplit cane with pith attached or Was it theplaned strip? Then how the splits were bent? By holding both edge ofthe cane and tried to bend untilit was broken? Or tried to bend rather short length of splits atvarious points including node part? Was a force from perpendicular direction put at the point of the node like the edge of ferrule tries to bend the blank? Was the test madebetween aged cane and non aged?Was the experiment made among various size of dimensioned splits? Thethinner the dimension, the weaker does the node became? Without answering to all those questions, it might not be appropriate tosay the nodelessdoes not have rational IMHO.I do not believe that nodeless is stronger than with nodeful. But I do believe that nodeless splits may have a smoother bend, smoother transition of force with rather equal strength along the entire strips,that it's. Problem might lies in the strength of the glue instead. To close this discussion, actual strength test is needed as Frankmentioned. I would try this when I have excess of cut out ofthe strips next time. When it is found that node is stronger thanfiber portion, it is very nice to have no staggeredbamboo rod which appearance is like natural cane with node. I can say from another reason that do not place nodes near tip top.Otherwise it is easy to have a tip with dog leg at node portion which ishardly corrected even using iron or whatever. Sorry to be long. Max Ed.Estlow@co.hennepin.mn.us wrote: If the node is acting as a stress concentrator, concentrating the stressbetween the nodes by virtue of its being stiffer (and stronger), then yesIcan see where a strip with nodes could break first. Lots of things enterin, however. For instance, stiffer, stronger things are more brittle andcan thus break sooner under certain circumstances. Also, where alongthestrip's line of curvature is/are the node(s) in question. This was alludedto by your question of putting nodes near the tip top. Best regards,-Ed (not ME, but aerospace) Estlow stetzer@csd.uwm.edu on 11/20/98 11:24:21 AM cc: (bcc: Ed Estlow/Hennepin) Subject: Re: All you nodeless types Would you then advise a beginner to place nodes as close as possibleto the tiptop and ferrules? from thinking about this with my little pea brain, here is how Ithink nodeless works. Nodes are stiffer and stronger than theinternodal areas. But because they are so, when a strip with nodesis bent a certain degree (say to an arc with a certain radius),the bending is not uniform. The stress of the bending is MORECONCENTRATED between the nodes than it would be in a nodeless stripof the same dimension. Thus, the strip with nodes will actually breakBEFORE the nodeless. This should be a testable hypothesis. Maybe someone with ME trainingcan put it better.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Fri, 20 Nov 1998, Don Andersen wrote: Hi there, Have broken many strips in fun and always the cane fails between thenodes.Seems like we should be making rods of all nodes and throwing theotherpart away. Maybe you guys got it backwards. Just a thought, Don -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from jhewitt@cmn.net Sat Nov 21 11:05:42 1998 Subject: Re: oven thermostats Robert & David,Thanks to David for asking the same question I was about to ask,and thanks to Robert for the answer...The list comes through again!!!John H. Robert Clarke wrote: David, I am no electrician, but this is what I did. Take your power source (two wires from an electrical cord). One wirefromthat cord should be connected to your thermostat(should not make adifference which wire, or which prong of the thermostat). The otherprongof the thermostat should have a high temperature wire going from it toyourheat source (I used a mica strip heater per Wayne's specs). You shouldhave a second prong or bolt on your heat source that should have anotherhigh temp wire coming from it. That wire should be connected to yoursecond wire from your electrical cord (power source). I used anelectricalbox that I attached to the outside of the shroud to hold the thermostatandthe connection between high temp wire and electrical cord (secondconnection mentioned). You most likely will have a ground wire as well,and I connected mine to the electrical box. You should also have a hole box. Make sure the electrical cord you use is pretty heavy. I found oneat a hardware store that costs about $5. Also, the high temperaturewireis a MUST. You can probably get it at the place you got your thermostat. Think about the layout, and it should make pretty good sense to you. Letme know if I can offer more assistance. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: David Rinker Subject: oven thermostatsDate: Friday, November 20, 1998 3:50 PM I have been looking at a universal oven thermostat that I purchased formyCatt style oven. The directions are not clear on how to set it up for use.If anyone can guide me through the wiring I would be grateful. Right nowIam looking at two terminals extending out of the thermostat and have nocluehow to connect them to work. The thermostat was built by Gem Productspartno. GR203. Thanks in advance....David Rinker from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sat Nov 21 11:09:54 1998 Subject: Need info on Payne Rod. Anyone out there into Payne Rods. I have a customer with a Payne rodlookingto sell. Need information on model and value of this rod. Payne- 8ft.- three piece- with two tips.Aluminum up locking screw seat, with walnut filler. Marked- Sold byH & D Folsom Arms Co.-New YorkWraps at guides are Brown with Tan tippingWraps at ferrules are Brown,then clear, then Black tipping.Wrap at front of grip is Brown,then clear, then Black tippingAget stripper guideFerrules are blued.This rod was redone years ago by a rodmaker in the Catskills, NY-verygood jobAll sections are original lengthSnake guides look like stainless or chrome- not tungston. Any information on this rod would be appreciated. Also, anyoneinterestedin buying this rod, let me know, as he doesn't want his children to fightover itwhen he passes away.He would rather get rid of it now. Thanks,Dave LeClair from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Sat Nov 21 11:25:21 1998 Subject: Re: Need info on Payne Rod. Hi Dave, from the Keane Catalog: Payne 8', 3/2, 3.5oz, really for a 3/4 with .059 dia tips, as found,varnish melt down, 98% bluing on ferrules, cap & band refinished, spanishcedar SB seat, cinn wraps w/blk tipping each guide, circa 30's-40's,replacement bag, orig tube, lt DF action, $1,875 Regards, Bobflysupplies@yahoo.com On Sat, 21 Nov 1998 LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: Anyone out there into Payne Rods. I have a customer with a Payne rodlookingto sell. Need information on model and value of this rod. Payne- 8ft.- three piece- with two tips.Aluminum up locking screw seat, with walnut filler. Marked- Sold byH & D Folsom Arms Co.-New YorkWraps at guides are Brown with Tan tippingWraps at ferrules are Brown,then clear, then Black tipping.Wrap at front of grip is Brown,then clear, then Black tippingAget stripper guideFerrules are blued.This rod was redone years ago by a rodmaker in the Catskills, NY-verygood jobAll sections are original lengthSnake guides look like stainless or chrome- not tungston. Any information on this rod would be appreciated. Also, anyoneinterestedin buying this rod, let me know, as he doesn't want his children to fightover itwhen he passes away.He would rather get rid of it now. Thanks,Dave LeClair from rcurry@top.monad.net Sat Nov 21 13:51:23 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo rodmaking only?/guide response FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: John and Reed,Two things to consider: 1.-There seems to be empirical evidence thatlargerguides (up to a point) give better shootability and 2.-while the theory ofone point touching of two tangent circles is correct the very fact of theline touching the guides will flatten the x-section whether it's intension ornot.This can go on forever :-)Regards,Hank.Hank,Oh, sure, now you bring in empirical evidence; just when I had somegood theories in reserve.#1/ This of course depends on the line diameter and the guidediameter.I grant that once a certain ratio is broached (and I haven't calculatedthat ratio) the number of incidents of contact will significantlyincrease thereby increasing the cumulative drag. Translation: If MichaelJordan were paid only for baskets, and the rim was reduced to only 1/32"greater than the diameter of the ball ... my income would exceed his.Perhaps we should understand, too, the usual application forlargeguides/long casts. Saltwater flyfishing generally means a 12-13 wt line;in modern lines this is quite a rotund bit of plastic. The line/guideratio might be no different than the fine guides that I use with a silkHEH. (Of course, I like the fish to be within clubbing distance, so Ihave little empirical evidence for long casts.)#2 Different materials will be deformed to differing degrees.Listen toa hard-braid silk line shooting through the guides; thousands ofseparate incidents of contact. On the other hand, I have a CortlandIntermediate line that sticks to guides like an aluminum canoe to rock.I could use 4" diameter guides with that line and still not be able toshoot it (shoot it, I can't even drown it).Best regards,Reed from MICK@welfen-netz.com Sat Nov 21 14:14:36 1998 [195.143.56.1] with SMTP(MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Sat, 21 Nov1998 21:13:38 +0100 Subject: planing forms in Canada Hi list,I remember to have read about a source of planing forms in Canada butcan't remeber deatails. I'ld appreciate any information about.mny tnxMichael from richjez@enteract.com Sat Nov 21 14:49:20 1998 0000 Subject: Re: planing forms in Canada Grindstone Anglers can be reached at 905-689-0880. At 09:09 PM 11/21/98 +0100, you wrote:Hi list,I remember to have read about a source of planing forms in Canada butcan't remeber deatails. I'ld appreciate any information about.mny tnxMichael *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ /||/______/_||_________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > from sjstill@iquest.net Sat Nov 21 16:14:36 1998 0000 (209.43.56.132) Subject: silk line ratings Hi All, Where can I find conversions for the letter system to the AFTMA ratingswe use today?I thought it was in Wayne's book, but couldn't find it. Ditto Howell.I've seen it fairly recently, but can't recall where! I'm too young tobe this forgetful :-( Steve from emiller257@dataflo.net Sat Nov 21 16:27:18 1998 wddataflo.dataflo.net(8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA26200 for ;Sat, 21 Nov 1998 16:34:53 Subject: Re: silk line ratings Steve Stillabower wrote: Hi All, Where can I find conversions for the letter system to the AFTMA ratingswe use today?I thought it was in Wayne's book, but couldn't find it. Ditto Howell.I've seen it fairly recently, but can't recall where! I'm too young tobe this forgetful :-( SteveTry Wayne's book pg 203. I just happen to be sitting here holdingthe book and checking messages.Lookin' for inspiration. Ed M. from rcurry@top.monad.net Sat Nov 21 16:39:56 1998 Subject: Re: silk line ratings Steve Stillabower wrote: Hi All, Where can I find conversions for the letter system to the AFTMA ratingswe use today?I thought it was in Wayne's book, but couldn't find it. Ditto Howell.I've seen it fairly recently, but can't recall where! I'm too young tobe this forgetful :-( SteveSteve,There is no general agreement on conversions between the DiametertoWeight systems.This is as it should be, for the following reasons:* The variance between the specific gravities of oiled silk lines,eventhose made by the same firm, was extreme. * The variance between the diameters, hence air resistance, ofthemodern PVC lines, even those made by the same firm, is extreme.* No two people agree on what line matches a rod. If you trustsomeoneelse's opinion, it should only be because he fishes at the samedistance, has the same height/weight/arm- length/casting style... and isan elderly rich uncle . Best regards,ReedP.S. - I'm not too young to be forgetful, but I'm old enough to beselective about what I forget. from Canerods@aol.com Sat Nov 21 16:40:39 1998 Subject: Re: Need info on Payne Rod. In a message dated 11/21/98 9:12:28 AM Pacific Standard Time,LECLAIR123@aol.com writes: Anyone out there into Payne Rods. I have a customer with a Payne rodlookingto sell. Need information on model and value of this rod. Payne- 8ft.- three piece- with two tips.Aluminum up locking screw seat, with walnut filler. Marked- Sold byH & D Folsom Arms Co.-New YorkWraps at guides are Brown with Tan tippingWraps at ferrules are Brown,then clear, then Black tipping.Wrap at front of grip is Brown,then clear, then Black tippingAget stripper guideFerrules are blued.This rod was redone years ago by a rodmaker in the Catskills, NY-verygood jobAll sections are original lengthSnake guides look like stainless or chrome- not tungston. Any information on this rod would be appreciated. Also, anyoneinterestedin buying this rod, let me know, as he doesn't want his children tofightover itwhen he passes away.He would rather get rid of it now. Thanks,Dave LeClair Dave, Tell him to contact one or more of the big rod list guys. Len Codella (352)637-5420, Martin Keane (413) 229-7988, Bob Corsetti (603) 886- 0411. Or tell him that I'll come cry at his wake if he sends the rod to me now. Don Burns from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Nov 21 16:43:39 1998 Subject: Re: silk line ratings SteveWayne's book - Page 203. Guess you're also going blind too.Such a shame - you were just hitting your prime too. Chris On Sat, 21 Nov 1998 17:06:41 -0600, Steve Stillabower wrote: Hi All, Where can I find conversions for the letter system to the AFTMA ratingswe use today?I thought it was in Wayne's book, but couldn't find it. Ditto Howell.I've seen it fairly recently, but can't recall where! I'm too young tobe this forgetful :-( Steve from maxs@geocities.co.jp Sat Nov 21 16:52:03 1998 geocities.co.jp(8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id HAA09477 for; Sun, 22Nov 1998 07:51:59 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Newbie Needs Help Joe C. Byrd wrote: I am building my first rod under the watchful eye of an experiencedrodbuilder. The question I have is there any tricks for straightening thenodes/strips. I am having a problem with this phase of the process. Also, do any of you cut your strips after the initial splitting? Any and all advise would be greatly appreciated. Joe Byrd Joe, Try to visit URL below for English, there is one of hints ofstraightening.As for cutting, my way is; 1. Cut a culm into the length of one rod section, plus 20cm(4cmx5splits) for staggering plus 10cm for leeway(5cm on both sides)-You canadjust each length as you like.2. Split the culm3. Stagger (in spiral) the nodes and cut all the splits into the lengthof a rod section plus leeway Try to find below: http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/craft1/rodcraft41.html Max-- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from amcsmith@nlis.net Sat Nov 21 17:23:51 1998 Subject: Re: silk line ratings At 05:06 PM 11/21/98 -0600, you wrote:Hi All, Where can I find conversions for the letter system to the AFTMA ratingswe use today?I thought it was in Wayne's book, but couldn't find it. Ditto Howell.I've seen it fairly recently, but can't recall where! I'm too young tobe this forgetful :-( Steve steve,got this from gierach's book IGI=DT3HFH=DT4HEH=DT5HDH=DT6HCH=DT7GBG=DT8GAG=DT9GAAG=DT10GAAAG=DT11GAAAAG=DT12IGJ=WF3HFG=WF4HEG=DT5HDG=WF6HCF=WF7GBF=WF8GAF=WF9GAAF=WF10GAAAF=WF11GAAAAF=WF12 chris smithps as a newbee i've never seen the WF stuff on a rod, and as alreadymentioned the diametersare different but it's a good pace to start from saltwein@swbell.net Sat Nov 21 17:46:31 1998 RAA08331 Subject: Leonard 50DF Harry, Ok, I learned something. I save and measure everything I come across ina straight line measurement but I didn't know how to go to attachedmeasurements from three individual pieces measured. Of course the measurements that Mike sent you facilitated it rather wellbeing on every two inches. What do you do with a rod that is measuredat 6" or 5" as seperate pieces? I have just saved them that way andreasoned measurements from each piece Here is what I came up with by stepping over the ferrule as youproposed. Extrapolation Proposed Rod Point Dimension Point Dimension0 .056 0 .0565 .073 5 .07410 .090 10 .09015 .105 15 .10620 .123 20 .12425 .136 25 .13630 .150 .156 at ferrule 30 .15035 .170 35 .17040 .181 40 .18045 .193 45 .19450 .201 50 .20055 .215 55 .21460 .226 .234 at ferrule 60 .22665 .235 65 .23670 .240 70 .24075 .258 75 .25880 .278 80 .27885 .301 85 .30088 .350 87 .320 I don't know how these compare with your figures as I hit the delete keytoo soon. Let me know if we have differences. I don't worry about smoothing the taper by a thousandth here and thereto get an even dimension. I believe that any tolerances held over acouple of thousandths are accidental anyway. I worked for AeroncaAircraft as a machinist in the mid 70's and we were required to holdtolerances to tens of thousandths on some machinings. We did testmeasurements on granite tables with one-two-three blocks and precisionmeasuring equipment that was tested every couple months by federalinspectors. I personally don't think you can hold tolerances to tens of thousandtsin bamboo, so I don't bother dealing with posted measurements over threefigures or odd numbers (which would require me to do the halfmeasurement in ten thousandths. In looking at a taper I like to plot the differences in points relativeto the rest of the measurements in the rod. I found two particularlyinteresting points in this taper. There are two hinges one, the largest,is in the center of the rod between 45-50. The other, and smallerhinge, is between the 80-85 point. Your description and the overall look of this taper have me moving it upmy to do list. You will notice that the major change I have made to the original taper,as measured, is reducing the amount of swell. I don't believe this willaffect the overall action of the rod. I also added one inch to thedimension for the handle and reel seet to take it to 9" overall. I thinkthis is a better figure and it effectively moves the swell measurementup for me. I like your take on the minimum dimesions for hexrod being based onGarrison math, and this is the reason it changes small dimensions in thetip. What is the line rating on this rod? Guessing a 4wt. Write when you have time and resend your measurements from hexrod. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO PS Any changes I make in a taper like this are for my own convenience or beliefs. It is not based on arrogance that I can improve this taper or that I know more than these giants we follow. from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sat Nov 21 18:10:21 1998 0600 Subject: Re: Leonard 50DF *****Woa, Bud! Don't give me too much credit. In spite of my big mouth,I'm still a novice at all this. It's just sometimes I "sound like" I knowwhat I'm doing. This is all an experiment to me. If we both build a dog ofa rod, then I'll only take responsibility for mine! Of course the measurements that Mike sent you facilitated it rather wellbeing on every two inches. What do you do with a rod that is measuredat 6" or 5" as seperate pieces? I have just saved them that way andreasoned measurements from each piece *****That's what I've done as well. Hexrod will take them at anymeasurements and convert them to 5". I just use my common sense. Forexample, a 7' 2 piece measured in 2 sections would have a "0"measurement butt "0" at 42". Does that sound right to you, because I'm just guessing? Here is what I came up with by stepping over the ferrule as youproposed. Extrapolation Proposed RodPoint Dimension Point Dimension0 .056 0 .0565 .073 5 .07410 .090 10 .09015 .105 15 .10620 .123 20 .12425 .136 25 .13630 .150 .156 at ferrule 30 .15035 .170 35 .17040 .181 40 .18045 .193 45 .19450 .201 50 .20055 .215 55 .21460 .226 .234 at ferrule 60 .22665 .235 65 .23670 .240 70 .24075 .258 75 .25880 .278 80 .27885 .301 85 .30088 .350 87 .320 I don't know how these compare with your figures as I hit the delete keytoo soon. Let me know if we have differences. ****** No difference over .001, other than I'm going to keep .090 at 10". I don't worry about smoothing the taper by a thousandth here and thereto get an even dimension. I believe that any tolerances held over acouple of thousandths are accidental anyway. I worked for AeroncaAircraft as a machinist in the mid 70's and we were required to holdtolerances to tens of thousandths on some machinings. We did testmeasurements on granite tables with one-two-three blocks andprecisionmeasuring equipment that was tested every couple months by federalinspectors. I personally don't think you can hold tolerances to tens of thousandtsin bamboo, so I don't bother dealing with posted measurements overthreefigures or odd numbers (which would require me to do the halfmeasurement in ten thousandths. In looking at a taper I like to plot the differences in points relativeto the rest of the measurements in the rod. I found two particularlyinteresting points in this taper. There are two hinges one, the largest,is in the center of the rod between 45-50. The other, and smallerhinge, is between the 80-85 point. ***** Yeah, those differences show up in the stress curve as well. Haveyouentered this into the online Hexrod? The stress curve is basicallycompletely flat throughout the entire mid-section. --- Is this a parabolicrod? ---- Or what they call "semi-parabolic"? Your description and the overall look of this taper have me moving it upmy to do list. You will notice that the major change I have made to the original taper,as measured, is reducing the amount of swell. I don't believe this willaffect the overall action of the rod. I also added one inch to thedimension for the handle and reel seet to take it to 9" overall. I thinkthis is a better figure and it effectively moves the swell measurementup for me. *****As far as butt swell, I'm going to set the 80" station at .278; thenjust see how far I can crank open my forms by 86". If I get to .350, so beit. If not, I'll know how much swell I can build in for future rods. I like your take on the minimum dimesions for hexrod being based onGarrison math, and this is the reason it changes small dimensions in thetip. What is the line rating on this rod? Guessing a 4wt. Nope, 5 weight. Casts like a dream with a TT 5/6. Write when you have time and resend your measurements from hexrod. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO PS Any changes I make in a taper like this are for my own convenienceor beliefs. It is not based on arrogance that I can improve thistaper or that I know more than these giants we follow. *****ME NEITHER! Here's the numbers again. Thanks for bearing with me.This rod should be worth it,HBLeonard 50DFDesignReport-------------------- ------------------------------------------------------ Basic Rod Design Parameters:Rod Length: 8 ft 0 in (= 96 inches)Action Length: 7 ft 4 in (= 88 inches) Line Weight: 5Pieces: 3Line Fished: 55 ftTip Factor: 2.528Ferrule Type: StandardFerrule #1: Size 10/64; Wt 0.162 oz.; Rod Dim 10.18/64 @ 32 inFerrule #2: Size 15/64; Wt 0.358 oz.; Rod Dim 14.89/64 @ 64 in ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inches Dimension Stress1 0.060 963155 0.074 26126310 0.092 27633015 0.105 29073920 0.124 24226025 0.137 23080830 0.150 22009135 0.171 18525640 0.181 18894945 0.193 18647350 0.201 19465655 0.215 18542460 0.226 18446165 0.234 19072670 0.240 20655775 0.259 19029280 0.278 17467985 0.301 15615088 0.350 106897------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sat Nov 21 18:16:23 1998 0600 Subject: Re: Leonard 50DF Sorry folks, that last post was meant to be private! I'll watch the adressbefore hitting "send" more closely in the future.Harry from sshorb@ozip.net Sat Nov 21 18:29:48 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-55785U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Sat, 21 Nov 1998 18:30:26 -0600 Subject: Re: Leonard 50DF Harry;I learned from it, both sides. It is very helpful to see how peopleapproach things when you're at the stage I am.Skip from arnold_jeff@hotmail.com Sat Nov 21 18:45:16 1998 Sat, 21 Nov 1998 16:44:39 PST Subject: Re: Setting Planing Forms for Final Dimensions Harry and Ian, Both of your responses will be helpful. I am glad to hear that if it does turn out to be a 6 wt. it will still be a nice caster. Struggling but still loving it, Jeff Jeff,If you have removed all the enamel, then set your forms at .150, and cutyour strips to .150 to get a dimension of .300 across the flats.If, though, you have left a trace of enamel to assist in removing theglue from the outside of the blank, then you will want to set your formsslightly oversize. For example, if you have just a haze of enamelremaining, set the forms to .151 for the same target dimensions. When youremove the last of the enamel with the glue, your strips should be "right onthe money."What you are looking for is strips that with no enamel measure exactlyone-half the target dimension. If your measuring is accurate after finalplaning, then most glues will add only infinitesimally (.0005 - .001) toyour measurements. Tapers are usually given for bare blanks, withoutfinish. Hope this helps,Harry Boyd Jeff Arnold wrote: I am building the Sir D/ Wanye C. 7' 4 wt. as my first rod. I am at thestage where I'm within .005" from final.....or am I? ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from bacon@idt.net Sat Nov 21 19:10:13 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo rodmaking only?/guide response FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: Reed,Not to get too serious about this but-consider the fact that the x- sectionof the line flattens some what and the larger guides touch less of theline'sx-section. As far as the coriolis effect it seems to be in affect duringthefull moon and or during the Leonid meteor showers. I remember that attheSouth Pole We had to use single foot guides as the coriolis was "0".-That'sthe empirial"we" you understand?:-)Regards,Hank.hank,as far as i'm concerned, it's POSITIVE, that the wind tunnel effectonly occurs during a full moon. (on the northern hemisphere)jeanFISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: Reed,Not to get too serious about this but-consider the fact that the x- sectionof the line flattens some what and the larger guides touch less of theline'sx-section. As far as the coriolis effect it seems to be in affect duringthefull moon and or during the Leonid meteor showers. I remember that attheSouth Pole We had to use single foot guides as the coriolis was "0".-That'sthe empirial"we" you understand?:-)Regards,Hank. from sjstill@iquest.net Sat Nov 21 19:52:46 1998 0000 (209.43.56.126) Subject: Re: silk line - Thanks! Thanks to all who responded with the line info. I thought I'd seen in inWayne's book! Just gotta learn to slow down! Thanks again. Steve from MICK@welfen-netz.com Sat Nov 21 20:17:15 1998 [195.143.56.1] with SMTP(MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Sun, 22 Nov1998 03:15:38 +0100 Subject: Re: planing forms in Canada thanks but is there any mailing adress or fax-#? phone is a bit pricy fromhere .)Michael Rich Jezioro wrote: Grindstone Anglers can be reached at 905-689-0880. At 09:09 PM 11/21/98 +0100, you wrote:Hi list,I remember to have read about a source of planing forms in Canada butcan't remeber deatails. I'ld appreciate any information about.mny tnxMichael *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@ /||/______/_||_________________________________________||/\/ \ > > / \ > from lblan@provide.net Sat Nov 21 20:39:21 1998 Subject: RE: Nyatex Epoxy (10E007/10EH008) Max; just saw your post, didn't see any replies, so here it is.. Nyatex Adhesive & Chemical Co. P.O. Box 124 2112 Industrial Street Howell MI 48843 Tel: 517-546-4046 Fax: 517-546-7916 William H. Hulbert Larry Blan from bacon@idt.net Sat Nov 21 20:41:58 1998 Subject: Re: All you nodeless types Don Andersen wrote: At 12:24 21/11/98 +0900, Max wrote: A bunch of ideas that I snipped. Max, It was not a scientific test by any means. Just broke a bunch of strips -some aged 15 or more years, some planed, some not, some large, somesmall,some tempered and some not - they all failed between the nodes.Like Ed says, the part that fails first is the weakest. Doesn't muchmatterhow the fibers line up or where the pith is or whatever.Node strength seems to be dogma and need further testing to determinewhatthe relative strengths of the internodal section vs the nodes might be.Would be a real shame to have all those nodes wasted that could makestronger and therefore lighter for the same OD rods regards, Don We have to understand the node of the cane correctly.At node, the internodal fibers are not connected between two connectedinternodal cane sections (after splitted off)since they get into the node flap and come out at different place of thenode. Node organizationis the mixture of vertical and horizontal fibers and pith. Power fibercomes up from below and turnedperpendicular angle into the node flap and gets out of there and goes upto next cane section.It is sure that when the cane is not split, as it lives in nature, thenode will thus stop the split of one canesection not to be continues onto next section, and prevent entire lengthof the cane from being broken at middle.This is another reason why we cannot split the cane straight at thenodesometimes. But think about our process, we get rid of the most of the node flap andpith (by base ball bat sometimes) andfiles out the surface of the nodes. On the planed strip, nodes havealready took most of the power offand the fibers are not connected at the both side of a node. Then I am curious, how the strips were tried to be broken. Was it thesplit cane with pith attached or Was it theplaned strip? Then how the splits were bent? By holding both edge ofthe cane and tried to bend untilit was broken? Or tried to bend rather short length of splits atvarious points including node part?Was a force from perpendicular direction put at the point of the node like the edge of ferrule tries to bend the blank? Was the test madebetween aged cane and non aged?Was the experiment made among various size of dimensioned splits? Thethinner the dimension, the weaker does the node became? Without answering to all those questions, it might not be appropriate tosay the nodelessdoes not have rational IMHO.I do not believe that nodeless is stronger than with nodeful. But I dobelieve that nodeless splits may have a smoother bend, smoothertransition of force with rather equal strength along the entire strips,that it's. Problem might lies in the strength of the glue instead. To close this discussion, actual strength test is needed as Frankmentioned. I would try this when I have excess of cut out ofthe strips next time. When it is found that node is stronger thanfiber portion, it is very nice to have no staggeredbamboo rod which appearance is like natural cane with node. I can say from another reason that do not place nodes near tip top.Otherwise it is easy to have a tip with dog leg at node portion which ishardly corrected even using iron or whatever. Sorry to be long. Max Ed.Estlow@co.hennepin.mn.us wrote: If the node is acting as a stress concentrator, concentrating thestressbetween the nodes by virtue of its being stiffer (and stronger), thenyes Ican see where a strip with nodes could break first. Lots of thingsenterin, however. For instance, stiffer, stronger things are more brittle andcan thus break sooner under certain circumstances. Also, where alongthestrip's line of curvature is/are the node(s) in question. This wasalludedto by your question of putting nodes near the tip top. Best regards,-Ed (not ME, but aerospace) Estlow stetzer@csd.uwm.edu on 11/20/98 11:24:21 AM cc: (bcc: Ed Estlow/Hennepin) Subject: Re: All you nodeless types Would you then advise a beginner to place nodes as close as possibleto the tiptop and ferrules? from thinking about this with my little pea brain, here is how Ithink nodeless works. Nodes are stiffer and stronger than theinternodal areas. But because they are so, when a strip with nodesis bent a certain degree (say to an arc with a certain radius),the bending is not uniform. The stress of the bending is MORECONCENTRATED between the nodes than it would be in a nodeless stripof the same dimension. Thus, the strip with nodes will actually breakBEFORE the nodeless. This should be a testable hypothesis. Maybe someone with ME trainingcan put it better.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Fri, 20 Nov 1998, Don Andersen wrote: Hi there, Have broken many strips in fun and always the cane fails betweenthenodes.Seems like we should be making rods of all nodes and throwing theotherpart away. Maybe you guys got it backwards. Just a thought, Don --Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 guys,is it possible, that the nodes depend upon the nodeless spaces, andthespaces depend upon the nodes to give the bamboo it's strength?kind of like a team? just a thought. bending in strong winds withoutbreaking is what goddess had in mind.jean from maxs@geocities.co.jp Sat Nov 21 22:26:23 1998 geocities.co.jp(8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id NAA03887 for; Sun, 22Nov 1998 13:26:17 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Newbie Needs Help Joe, I mistook your question as straightening tips instead of nodes. My webdoesn't have it yet though in Japanese version. Sorry for making youconfused. Max Max Satoh wrote: Joe C. Byrd wrote: I am building my first rod under the watchful eye of an experiencedrodbuilder. The question I have is there any tricks for straighteningthenodes/strips. I am having a problem with this phase of the process. Also, do any of you cut your strips after the initial splitting? Any and all advise would be greatly appreciated. Joe Byrd Joe, Try to visit URL below for English, there is one of hints ofstraightening.As for cutting, my way is; 1. Cut a culm into the length of one rod section, plus 20cm(4cmx5splits) for staggering plus 10cm for leeway(5cm on both sides)-Youcanadjust each length as you like.2. Split the culm3. Stagger (in spiral) the nodes and cut all the splits into the lengthof a rod section plus leeway Try to find below: http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/craft1/rodcraft41.html Max from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sun Nov 22 02:04:14 1998 (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Sharpe's 8-1/2 ft, 6 wt rod taper attached (Excel 97 format) boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01BE15AC.93578FE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BE15AC.93578FE0 boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0019_01BE15AC.93578FE0" ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01BE15AC.93578FE0 I just got through measuring the taper of a Sharpe's of Aberdeen A104 =(8- 1/2', 6 wt, 2/1) impregnated rod blank. In case anyone is =interested, it is attached as an Excel 97 spreadsheet. George W. Bourke ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01BE15AC.93578FE0 I just got through measuring the = Sharpe's of Aberdeen A104 (8-1/2', 6 wt, 2/1) impregnated rod = spreadsheet. George W. =Bourke ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01BE15AC.93578FE0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BE15AC.93578FE0 name="Sharpe's of Aberdeen 102 in, 6 wt.xls" filename="Sharpe's of Aberdeen 102 in, 6 wt.xls" 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------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BE15AC.93578FE0-- from jourdoktorn@pilot.stjarntv.se Sun Nov 22 04:16:00 1998 with ESMTP id AAA45E6 for ;Sun, 22 Nov 1998 11:09:52 +0100 Subject: Terrible Russia fishing trip Hi all,want to tell you about a terrible experience from a troutfishing trip to the Kola peninsula this summer. Loop is a companyknown to arrange trips to the trout paradise Kharlowka and Litzarivers in Kola peninsula in Russia! Everything looks very nice inthe prospects but the truth is Loop has had serious problems withthe arrangements. Last summer a group of Swedes, me included, were booked by theLoop company for this fishing paradise. Meeting point was theMurmansk city in northern Kola peninsula in Russia. We weresurprised to find there were no people from the Loop companymeeting us. We were introduced to a women from a Russian companyat the airport and then in a hurry taken by helicopter fromMurmansk to a place we had not agreed to, because some papers byLoop were not approved by the Russian people. The group wanted tostay in Murmansk until the papers were fixed but was told therewas not going to be a new arrangement by helicopter. We were alsoinformed that the new fishing place was a place as good in everyaspect as the original. We were also promised to be transported to the original fishing place within 1-2 days.The place was 70 miles away from the agreed trout paradise, out in the empty Tundra, and a real fishing catastrophy. The grouparrived 11.30 in the night in a tremendous mosquito inferno andthe helicopter was gone when it was found that the tents Loop hadbought for this trip were left behind because Loop did not care to do a check before start. We had especially asked Loop if we should take our own tents, but was informed there was no need for this.The promised trout water was a 100-150 yard wide river, a typicalsalmon type of river, far from the small creeks and beautifulenvironment we had payed for.In the morning, before any attempt to fish, a group of Russianmilitary arrived by helicopter and confiscated the fishingequipment(!!) because the group was said to be in a forbiddenarea. By a chance one in the group did have a satelite navigatorshowing the group was at a river about 100 miles from the BarentsSea where the closest community, a Salmon fishing camp wassituated. Without sufficient mosquito protection, no possibilities to fish, no communication equipment and not enough food (therussian cook was told they only needed food supply for 2-3 days as the fishing was supposed to fill the rest), the group was sittingin the open tundra of Kola peninsula without anyone payingattention. No helicopter was seen or heard from for 6 days. Byluck all in our group were well trained for wilderness survivaland otherwise well equipped and none was taken ill. The sixth daywe started to arrange for building a raft taking us the 50 milesto the closest salmon camp. The day the "paradise trip" wassupposed to end (6 days after!) at 11.00 in the night, the groupwas abrupt collected by a helicopter to Murmansk for furtertransportation back to Sweden without any explanation at all. The worst thing is, Loop did not accept to take the responsibility fo their mistakes in the arrangement even though our group had all the arrangement and contracts with the Loop company. The incidentis now up for legal actions. Jan Nystrom, a member in the group. from dickay@alltel.net Sun Nov 22 07:52:52 1998 HAA03484 Subject: Re: oven thermostats David,Robert is almost totally correct. The first question I have for you iswhat voltage are you going to run you oven on? If 115 V then the blackwire from the cord should go to the thermostat and the white wire shouldgodirectly to the heater element by way of the high temperature wire. Are you using a cord with the plug already attached? (Molded on) If youhave to attach a plug to the cord, the white wire gores to the "Bright"screw and the black wire goes to the "Brass" screw. The ground wire goesto the green screw of the plug. from there it goes to the junction box. If you want you can attach it to one of the screws attaching the heatingelement to the oven. Again, use high temperature wire inside the oven. On 115 V, the black wire is the "Hot" lead and the "White" wire is theneutral lead. You want the thermostat to control the "Hot" side of thecircuit. Remember the thermostat is only an off/on switch. A fancyswitchthat can decide when to turn off an on based on your setting thetemperature but just a switch. If you are using 220 V, you probably should have a different thermostat. On 220 V both leads are "Hot" and should be controlled by the thermostat. All of this discourse is for safety sake.RegardsDick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net from cattanac@wmis.net Sun Nov 22 08:01:59 1998 t2.wmis.net (8.8.5/SCO5) withSMTP id OAA08315 for ; Sun, 22 Nov 199814:05:06 GMT Subject: Re: oven thermostats John -As a last bit of insight concerning the thermostat - At least on theRobertshaw brand that I have used in the past - there is a heat anticipatoradjustment -located in the stem of the thermostat - usually sealed with apaint or such - this adjustment is used to calibrate the thermostat sothat the dial reading and the box temperature are the same. To adjustplacea thermometer inside the box and set the thermostat at a commonly usedtemp(say 375 deg) then turn the anticipator screw until the two match. Youmighttry a couple different locations on the rack of the oven and then do anaverage - most have noticed a slight variation from fron to rear. In theinstruction for the thermostat it should mention this process if it isavailable. Wayne from ddodd@hrfn.net Sun Nov 22 11:33:03 1998 (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP 12:41:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Newbie Dave to Rick re Beginner questions Rick, Thanks for the advice. Am going to build wooden forms first and try toplane some pieces.I have all of the material and hardware to do the steel forms. I do nothave enough room in the shop to due the hand filing. Am making an 8'benchto work on. I will cut out the wood form while I am cutting legs etc forthe table. I would like to use the Garrison differential bolts but canfindno one who has them or sells them. Any Ideas? Thanks for the effort,Newbie Dave -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Beginner questions David, Make your own forms. Look at the Rodmaker's Page and find the link forThomas Penrose's page under Tip's FAQs & Tools or some such title.Substitute a 60 degree lathe bit tool ala Bruce Conner's page (samesource for the link). Voila, nice forms for about $60 bucks if you havea drill press or GOOD doweling jig. It takes some time, but, you'regonna wait on the forms from the shop. Or make wooden ones as BruceConner recommends. It's not that hard to do. I made wooden forms inabout 5 hours. Steel in about 30+ hours with all the draw filingrequired. I think I could make the next set in about half the time. Rick Crenshaw from jczimny@dol.net Sun Nov 22 11:54:41 1998 Subject: Re: Newbie Dave to Rick re Beginner questions David,You might wish to try a push-pull system on your forms. I think that you'llfind that system will work well for you in wood. You can use tee- nutsfromthe hardware store.Alas, differential screws are not available as a stock item and have to bemade.John Z-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Newbie Dave to Rick re Beginner questions Rick, Thanks for the advice. Am going to build wooden forms first and trytoplane some pieces.I have all of the material and hardware to do the steel forms. I do nothave enough room in the shop to due the hand filing. Am making an 8'benchto work on. I will cut out the wood form while I am cutting legs etc forthe table. I would like to use the Garrison differential bolts but canfindno one who has them or sells them. Any Ideas? Thanks for the effort,Newbie Dave -----Original Message-----From: Rick Crenshaw Date: Sunday, November 15, 1998 1:37 AMSubject: Re: Beginner questions David, Make your own forms. Look at the Rodmaker's Page and find the link forThomas Penrose's page under Tip's FAQs & Tools or some such title.Substitute a 60 degree lathe bit tool ala Bruce Conner's page (samesource for the link). Voila, nice forms for about $60 bucks if you havea drill press or GOOD doweling jig. It takes some time, but, you'regonna wait on the forms from the shop. Or make wooden ones as BruceConner recommends. It's not that hard to do. I made wooden forms inabout 5 hours. Steel in about 30+ hours with all the draw filingrequired. I think I could make the next set in about half the time. Rick Crenshaw from saltwein@swbell.net Sun Nov 22 13:33:32 1998 NAA03050 Subject: Re: Newbie Dave /Wooden Forms David Dodd wrote: Rick, Thanks for the advice. Am going to build wooden forms first and try toplane some pieces.I have all of the material and hardware to do the steel forms. I do nothave enough room in the shop to due the hand filing. Am making an 8'benchto work on. I will cut out the wood form while I am cutting legs etc forthe table. I would like to use the Garrison differential bolts but canfindno one who has them or sells them. Any Ideas? Thanks for the effort, Good advise from Rick on the forms. I use wooden forms myself. I wouldadvise against differential screws for wood though as I believe you willhave too much stress on the wooden threads. Push pull with shoulderbolts or metal pins work just fine. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from stpete@netten.net Sun Nov 22 14:11:32 1998 cedar.netten.net(8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA16678 for ;Sun, 22 Nov 1998 14:11:30 Subject: Re: Newbie Dave to Rick re Beginner questions Dave, John Z and Steve's advice on the push pull system is right on the money.I like John Z's advice regarding the use of T-nuts. I was a bit heavyhanded in adjusting my forms and managed to strip out two of my stationswith the shoulder bolts. I was a bit heavy handed with the planes as well. Steel suits me, butothers have stuck with the wooden forms because THEY WORK. Buildingthesteel forms put me behind on my first rod, but now that I have them, Ifeel much better about scraping down to the form level and my 60 degreeangles are all much truer. No more oblong shaped cross sections. I justgo over the forms lightly with a mill bastard (ala Wayne Cattanach'sform truing procedure) after each rod. As soon as I really know how tohandle a plane, I'm building a wooden set of forms for quad rods. Rick David Dodd wrote: Rick, Thanks for the advice. Am going to build wooden forms first and try toplane some pieces.I have all of the material and hardware to do the steel forms. I do nothave enough room in the shop to due the hand filing. Am making an 8'benchto work on. I will cut out the wood form while I am cutting legs etc forthe table. I would like to use the Garrison differential bolts but canfindno one who has them or sells them. Any Ideas? Thanks for the effort,Newbie Dave from SBDunn@aol.com Sun Nov 22 14:43:47 1998 Subject: Re: Digest? Is it possible to subscribe to the digest while still getting the complete,unabridged version? I would like to save the digest version, yet stillreceiveeverything. from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sun Nov 22 15:09:54 1998 (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Holden's book back in print boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001F_01BE161A.3AA1DE00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BE161A.3AA1DE00 The Idyll of the Split Bamboo is back in print -- I discovered it on =Amazon.com and ordered a copy. You should be able to get it at various =bookstores (on Amazon.com it was about $21.50 including shipping). George Bourke ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BE161A.3AA1DE00 The Idyll of the Split Bamboo is back in print -- I = shipping). George Bourke ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BE161A.3AA1DE00-- from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Nov 22 16:03:22 1998 boundary="_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862608=_=_=_"Subject: Re: Holden's book back in print --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862608=_=_=_ George I just checked www.barnesandnoble.com and they have it for $17.46plus shipping: The Idyll of the Split BambooIn-Stock: Ships within 24 hours.George Parker Holden / Hardcover / Date Published:September 1998Retail Price: $24.95 Our Price: $17.46, You Save $7.49(30%) Regards Chris --Original Message Text--- The Idyll of the Split Bamboo is back in print -- I discovered it onAmazon.com and ordered acopy. You should be able to get it at various bookstores (on Amazon.com it was about $21.50 includingshipping). George Bourke Regards Chris --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862608=_=_=_ George I just checked www.barnesandnoble.com and they have it for $17.46plus shipping: The Idyll of the Split BambooIn-Stock: Ships within 24 hours.George Parker Holden / Hardcover / Date Published:September1998Retail Price: $24.95 Our Price: $17.46, You Save $7.49(30%) Regards Chris --Original Message Text---From: irish-georgeDate: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 13:15:52 -0800 The Idyll of the Split Bamboo is back inprint -- I discovered iton Amazon.com and ordered a copy. You should be able to get it at variousbookstores (onAmazon.com it was about $21.50 including shipping). George Bourke --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862608=_=_=_-- from Canerods@aol.com Sun Nov 22 17:36:23 1998 Subject: Re: oven thermostats In a message dated 11/22/98 5:56:01 AM Pacific Standard Time,dickay@alltel.net writes: On 115 V, the black wire is the "Hot" lead and the "White" wire is theneutral lead. You want the thermostat to control the "Hot" side of thecircuit. Remember the thermostat is only an off/on switch. A fancyswitchthat can decide when to turn off an on based on your setting thetemperature but just a switch. If you are using 220 V, you probably should have a different thermostat. On 220 V both leads are "Hot" and should be controlled by thethermostat. All of this discourse is for safety sake.RegardsDick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net Dick's got this nailed down, I'd like to add that if the oven has an outermetal jacket that you should make sure that the green wire somehow isconnected to the metal. That way if the 115v power gets (a wire breaksetc) tothe outer metal the breaker or fuse should trip and you won't get zapped. If you are working near water then the outlet should also have a groundfaultprotector. If fact it's a darn good idea to install a ground fault protector $30per protector vs one good very nasty electric shock when working withmetaltools. Trust me, I know. FOr example, my mother-in-law's 50 year old Sears andSawbuck power drill was wired so that the pwr. switch worked the gndside ofthe 115 volt power and the 50 years worth of graphite dust from themotor'sbrushes allowed 115 volts to be applied to the outer metal case - ask mehow Iknow! @#$%#%$&*^ Don from richjez@enteract.com Sun Nov 22 18:21:05 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Holden's book back in print Chris Barnes and Nobel price is $21.41 with S&H and Amazon is $21.42. Though is looks like I need a life, I am just avoiding doing some work. Rich Jezioro At 05:03 PM 11/22/98 -0500, you wrote: George I just checked www.barnesandnoble.com and they have it for $17.46 plusshipping: The Idyll of the Split BambooIn-Stock: Ships within 24 hours.George Parker Holden / Hardcover / Date Published: September 1998Retail Price: $24.95 Our Price: $17.46, You Save $7.49 (30%) Regards Chris --Original Message Text---From: irish-georgeDate: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 13:15:52 -0800 The Idyll of the Split Bamboo is back in print -- I discovered it onAmazon.com and ordered a copy. You should be able to get it at variousbookstores (on Amazon.com it was about $21.50 including shipping). George Bourke *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ /||/______/_||_________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > from lblan@provide.net Sun Nov 22 18:21:36 1998 Subject: FW: Error Condition Re: RE: D*g*st? Just had to send this one. I tried to respond to a post. The listserveapparently felt that it was a mis-guided attempt at subscribing to thedigest, and bounced it. My original reply is below the note from the server.Aren't computers just grand! Larry Blan We are sorry, but this system sensed the following request which mayhavebeeninadvertently sent to list rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu: SET UP If your posting was intentional, please accept our apologies and resendyourmail message, making sure you do not include anything that may look likearequest in the first line of the body of the actual message. If this wasindeed a request please resend it to listproc@wugate.wustl.eduYour entire message is copied below. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- from lblan@provide.net Sun Nov 22 18:12:24 1998 Set up another screen name on AOL. Subscribe to the digest using onescreenname, and subscribe to the list with the other. -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu SBDunn@aol.comSent: Sunday, November 22, 1998 3:43 PM Subject: Re: Digest? Is it possible to subscribe to the digest while still getting thecomplete,unabridged version? I would like to save the digest version, yetstill receiveeverything. from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Sun Nov 22 19:56:10 1998 with SMTP(MDaemon.v2.7.SP5i.R) for ; Sun, 22 Nov1998 20:57:33 -0500 Subject: RFC: Morgan Bamboo Hand Mill Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Does anyone have any experience or know of anyone that has experiencewiththe Morgan Bamboo Hand Mill? Thanks JoeBoy from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sun Nov 22 20:27:40 1998 (modemcable55.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.09.21.23.34)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Holden's book back in print There must be some mistake. I just ordered it from Amazon.com and itcosts: Item(s) Subtotal: $ 17.47Shipping & Handling: $ 5.95Tax: $ 0.00-------TOTAL DUE: $ 23.42 Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Holden's book back in print Chris Barnes and Nobel price is $21.41 with S&H and Amazon is $21.42. Though is looks like I need a life, I am just avoiding doing some work. Rich Jezioro At 05:03 PM 11/22/98 -0500, you wrote: George I just checked www.barnesandnoble.com and they have it for $17.46 plusshipping: The Idyll of the Split BambooIn-Stock: Ships within 24 hours.George Parker Holden / Hardcover / Date Published: September 1998Retail Price: $24.95 Our Price: $17.46, You Save $7.49 (30%) Regards Chris --Original Message Text---From: irish-georgeDate: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 13:15:52 -0800 The Idyll of the Split Bamboo is back in print -- I discovered it onAmazon.com and ordered a copy. You should be able to get it at variousbookstores (on Amazon.com it was about $21.50 including shipping). George Bourke *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ /||/______/_||_________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > from maxs@geocities.co.jp Sun Nov 22 20:57:58 1998 geocities.co.jp(8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id LAA00855 for; Mon, 23Nov 1998 11:57:53 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: All you nodeless types Don Andersen wrote: At 12:24 21/11/98 +0900, Max wrote: A bunch of ideas that I snipped. Max, It was not a scientific test by any means. Just broke a bunch of strips -some aged 15 or more years, some planed, some not, some large, somesmall,some tempered and some not - they all failed between the nodes.Like Ed says, the part that fails first is the weakest. Doesn't muchmatterhow the fibers line up or where the pith is or whatever. I agree with this. Node portion is stiffer than internode portion. Node strength seems to be dogma and need further testing to determinewhatthe relative strengths of the internodal section vs the nodes might be. I thought around what was dogma in my mind and tried to find someexplicit statements by searching Garrison's andWayne's book, and found in Master's Guide at page 20 under a picture, asfollows; "Since nodes are not strong under working sresses, you should strive toget solid cane placed on all six flats at the point where the end of the ferrule cap and thebamboo will meet. Rods often break at the ferrule since it is the area of greatest stress, and you shouldguard against adding to an already existing hazard." As far as I know, no one yet has said that node is weaker thaninternodal section in general but we seem to tend to believethat node might be weaker than internodal section in general from thecaution message from Garrison as above. You already experimented that an entire length of bend will causeinternodal section to be broken first.Our interest now is against when a concentrated force is placed at thepoint like just below a ferrule and if node is placed there, whether it is stronger than internodalsection. Right?I would try this test and compare two cases and post the results. Allowme for some period of time for this. Would be a real shame to have all those nodes wasted that could makestronger and therefore lighter for the same OD rods This should be after finding the fact.Nodeless may have several good points too. Smoother rod action andsmoother bend.Do you agree with these? regards, Don Don, I appreciate your experiments and posting it. I have not been so brave to break a limited number of splits as you.I like such volunteer-ism very much. Max, your fan -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from drinkr@voicenet.com Sun Nov 22 21:37:49 1998 0000 (207.103.119.163) Subject: RE: oven thermostats Dick thanks for the additional information. Now if I can stop slicing myfingers on sheet metal I may finish the oven before the end of the week.David Rinker -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Fuhrm> Sent: Sunday, November 22, 1998 8:47 AM Subject: Re: oven thermostats David,Robert is almost totally correct. The first question I have for you iswhat voltage are you going to run you oven on? If 115 V then the blackwire from the cord should go to the thermostat and the white wireshould godirectly to the heater element by way of the high temperature wire. Are you using a cord with the plug already attached? (Molded on) If youhave to attach a plug to the cord, the white wire gores to the "Bright"screw and the black wire goes to the "Brass" screw. The ground wiregoesto the green screw of the plug. from there it goes to the junction box.If you want you can attach it to one of the screws attaching the heatingelement to the oven. Again, use high temperature wire inside the oven. On 115 V, the black wire is the "Hot" lead and the "White" wire is theneutral lead. You want the thermostat to control the "Hot" side of thecircuit. Remember the thermostat is only an off/on switch. Afancy switchthat can decide when to turn off an on based on your setting thetemperature but just a switch. If you are using 220 V, you probably should have a different thermostat.On 220 V both leads are "Hot" and should be controlled by thethermostat. All of this discourse is for safety sake.RegardsDick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Nov 22 21:44:14 1998 Subject: Re: Need info on Payne Rod. Don,I already offered to cry at his wake, but he still wouldn't give methe rod. Whatcha gonna do? Dave from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Nov 22 22:05:25 1998 Subject: Re: Need info on Payne Rod. Bob,Thanks for the info on the Payne rod. I have looked through all oftheMartin Kean books, etc. and havn't found this same rod. I may have thisguy call them. Dave l. from Canerods@aol.com Sun Nov 22 22:16:45 1998 Subject: Feedback: Bob Marriott's FFF '98 All, I visited the annual Bob Marriott's fly fishing fair and saw some nice newequipment. (bamboo related and not) Tejon (bad memory - I know it was one of the "T" brand reels) had a nicelooking nickel-plated version (not a shiny Ni, but brownish color) of theirmachined black std. reels for cane rod use (also has gold foot and trimaccents) for a minor up-charge in price. Available only in the 3-4 and 5- 6wt.models so far. Maybe also in the large-arbor spools versions of these reelstoo? Hardy had most of their cane rod models and one of their limitedproductionreproduction raised pillar "collector" reels. Plus they has a die-castproduction version of this raised pillar reel that I didn't know evenexisted.This one had a beefed up drag and other changes. Had I known of itsexistance,I would have bid a bit higher on the FF club's silent auction coupon for 50%off of any Hardy catalog item! Also, T&T and Winston did not have their cane rods in their show displays.Just plastic. No other cane rod makers had a booth. Opportunity? Ed Pearlman, local cane rod collector and "non-profit" cane rod museumcurator, did have his cane rod display and was selling quite few of hisclassic rods. Don Burns PS - Marriott's was selling (sold out) last year's version of the Orvis "No- Sweat" model waders for ~$100 less that I paid for mine. ($164 markeddown from $309 - I think I paid $269?? recently at an Ovris tackle shop sale)@#%$#%% from richjez@enteract.com Sun Nov 22 22:37:11 1998 0000 Subject: RE: Holden's book back in print Maybe a different method of shipping?Here is my amazon order.Rich Will ship via: Standard Shipping (Averages 3-7 business days) Item(s) Subtotal: $ 17.47Shipping & Handling: $ 3.95Tax: $ 0.00-------TOTAL DUE: $ 21.42 At 09:28 PM 11/22/98 -0500, you wrote:There must be some mistake. I just ordered it from Amazon.com and itcosts: Item(s) Subtotal: $ 17.47Shipping & Handling: $ 5.95Tax: $ 0.00-------TOTAL DUE: $ 23.42 Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Sunday, November 22, 1998 7:23 PM Subject: Re: Holden's book back in print Chris Barnes and Nobel price is $21.41 with S&H and Amazon is $21.42. Though is looks like I need a life, I am just avoiding doing some work. Rich Jezioro At 05:03 PM 11/22/98 -0500, you wrote: George I just checked www.barnesandnoble.com and they have it for $17.46plusshipping: The Idyll of the Split BambooIn-Stock: Ships within 24 hours.George Parker Holden / Hardcover / Date Published: September 1998Retail Price: $24.95 Our Price: $17.46, You Save $7.49 (30%) Regards Chris --Original Message Text---From: irish-georgeDate: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 13:15:52 -0800 The Idyll of the Split Bamboo is back in print -- I discovered it onAmazon.com and ordered a copy. You should be able to get it at variousbookstores (on Amazon.com it was about $21.50 including shipping). George Bourke *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ /||/______/_||_________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > / \ > *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ /||/______/_||_________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sun Nov 22 23:41:23 1998 (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Holden's book back in print boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001D_01BE1661.C92163C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01BE1661.C92163C0 I think that is the same as amazon (+3.95 for shipping). George Bourke-----Original Message-----From: cbogart Date: Sunday, November 22, 1998 2:11 PMSubject: Re: Holden's book back in print George I just checked www.barnesandnoble.com and they have it for $17.46 =plus shipping: The Idyll of the Split BambooIn-Stock: Ships within 24 hours.George Parker Holden / Hardcover / Date Published: September 1998 Regards Chris --Original Message Text---From: irish-georgeDate: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 13:15:52 -0800 The Idyll of the Split Bamboo is back in print -- I discovered it on =Amazon.com and ordered a copy. You should be able to get it at various =bookstores (on Amazon.com it was about $21.50 including shipping). George Bourke Regards Chris ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01BE1661.C92163C0 I think that is the same asamazon = shipping). George Bourke -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sunday, November 22, 1998 2:11 PMSubject: Re: = back in printGeorgeI = www.barnesandnoble.com = BambooIn-Stock: Ships within 24 hours.George Parker Holden /= Hardcover / Date Published: September 1998Retail Price: $24.95 = Text---From: irish-georgeDate: Sun, 22 Nov = 13:15:52 -0800The Idyll of= Bamboo is back in print -- I discovered it on Amazon.com and ordered = You should be able to get it at various bookstores (on Amazon.com it = ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01BE1661.C92163C0-- from maxs@geocities.co.jp Mon Nov 23 00:07:55 1998 geocities.co.jp(8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id PAA02936 for; Mon, 23Nov 1998 15:07:49 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Shell Epon Hi Chris, I am trying to get Shell Epon with the help of my friend in US, but bothof us do not haveenough knowledge about Epon. Could you explain the pros. & cons. ofShell Epon when applied oncane rod? Is there any specifics in curing? How is the shelf life? Thanks in advance. Max P.S.I finished your Shenandoah Supreme #4 and Jim Payne 200 at the sametime. When I showed both of two rods to my bamboo rod fellows, most ofthem liked your action. I am thinking to upload the pictures of bothrods on my web shortly. Which were varnished with Urushi. Thank you for your posint the taper of Shenandoah Supreme on rodmakers! cbogart wrote: SkipThe combination is 828 resin and 3140(V40) curing agent mixed1:1 - I do it by weight. Chris On Fri, 23 Oct 1998 18:38:30 -0500, Skip Shorb wrote: Anybody; I'm new at this, so I looked up Shell Epon. There are numerous 'Epon's"; eg:825, 826, 828, 829, 830, 834, 836, 862, 872, 8280, and blends 813,815C and others.Resin solutions; 834-X-90, 1001-A-80, 1001-B-80, 1001-T-75, 1031-B-80and others.Curing agents; Shell Epi-Cure: 3046, 3125(V-25), 3140(V-40),3223(DETA),3234(TETA), 3253, 3271, 3282, 3295, 3382, 3502 and others.Then there are waterborne resins and curing agents; modifiers; and onand on.Can someone please tell me which of these has been used or is used toglue strips together. Thanks for any info.Skip Regards Chris -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from maxs@geocities.co.jp Mon Nov 23 00:07:58 1998 geocities.co.jp(8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id PAA02690 for; Mon, 23Nov 1998 15:07:24 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Nyatex Epoxy (10E007/10EH008) Larry, Thanks for information. Max Larry Blan wrote: Max; just saw your post, didn't see any replies, so here it is.. Nyatex Adhesive & Chemical Co. P.O. Box 124 2112 Industrial Street Howell MI 48843 Tel: 517-546-4046 Fax: 517-546-7916 William H. Hulbert Larry Blan -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Mon Nov 23 06:49:44 1998 (modemcable55.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.09.21.23.34)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Holden's book back in print Hi Rich I'm in Canada so shipping is a bit higher. Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Holden's book back in print Maybe a different method of shipping?Here is my amazon order.Rich Will ship via: Standard Shipping (Averages 3-7 business days) Item(s) Subtotal: $ 17.47Shipping & Handling: $ 3.95Tax: $ 0.00-------TOTAL DUE: $ 21.42 At 09:28 PM 11/22/98 -0500, you wrote:There must be some mistake. I just ordered it from Amazon.com and itcosts: Item(s) Subtotal: $ 17.47Shipping & Handling: $ 5.95Tax: $ 0.00-------TOTAL DUE: $ 23.42 Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Sunday, November 22, 1998 7:23 PM Subject: Re: Holden's book back in print Chris Barnes and Nobel price is $21.41 with S&H and Amazon is $21.42. Though is looks like I need a life, I am just avoiding doing some work. Rich Jezioro At 05:03 PM 11/22/98 -0500, you wrote: George I just checked www.barnesandnoble.com and they have it for $17.46plusshipping: The Idyll of the Split BambooIn-Stock: Ships within 24 hours.George Parker Holden / Hardcover / Date Published: September 1998Retail Price: $24.95 Our Price: $17.46, You Save $7.49 (30%) Regards Chris --Original Message Text---From: irish-georgeDate: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 13:15:52 -0800 The Idyll of the Split Bamboo is back in print -- I discovered it onAmazon.com and ordered a copy. You should be able to get it at variousbookstores (on Amazon.com it was about $21.50 including shipping). George Bourke *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@ /||/______/_||_________________________________________||/\/ \ > > / \ > *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@ /||/______/_||_________________________________________||/\/ \ > > from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Nov 23 06:55:00 1998 Subject: Re: Feedback: Bob Marriott's FFF '98/No sweat Don and list,The reason orvis is closing out those waders at such a low price is thattheyhad a lot of trouble with them leaking from little pin holes. I know thisbecause I used to be an orvis dealer and I took so many of them in forreturnsto orvis. If I was going to try someones no-sweats i would go with SimmsorHodgman. i have a pair of Hodgmans that are over 20 years old (not no-sweats)that are still going strong, not one leak yet.Bret from anglport@con2.com Mon Nov 23 06:59:57 1998 Subject: Re: oven thermostats Don, About your suggestion to use a GFI on the oven circuit. I just got a tablesaw from my brother. It worked at his house but when I got it home itwouldn't work at mine. Turned out the GFI that I was plugging it into wastripping each time the motor started. Could that happen with an oven?Theycertainly draw enough current. (Or is my GFI damaged?) This is notsomething I plan to do with my 220v oven. Don't have a 220v GFI in thehouse...don't even know if you can get them, (or maybe you put one on eachleg of the circuit?)!Thanks,Art At 06:35 PM 11/22/98 EST, you wrote:In a message dated 11/22/98 5:56:01 AM Pacific Standard Time,dickay@alltel.net writes: On 115 V, the black wire is the "Hot" lead and the "White" wire is theneutral lead. You want the thermostat to control the "Hot" side of thecircuit. Remember the thermostat is only an off/on switch. A fancyswitchthat can decide when to turn off an on based on your setting thetemperature but just a switch. If you are using 220 V, you probably should have a differentthermostat. On 220 V both leads are "Hot" and should be controlled by thethermostat. All of this discourse is for safety sake.RegardsDick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net Dick's got this nailed down, I'd like to add that if the oven has an outermetal jacket that you should make sure that the green wire somehow isconnected to the metal. That way if the 115v power gets (a wire breaksetc) tothe outer metal the breaker or fuse should trip and you won't get zapped. If you are working near water then the outlet should also have a groundfaultprotector. If fact it's a darn good idea to install a ground fault protector $30per protector vs one good very nasty electric shock when working withmetaltools. Trust me, I know. FOr example, my mother-in-law's 50 year old Sears andSawbuck power drill was wired so that the pwr. switch worked the gndside ofthe 115 volt power and the 50 years worth of graphite dust from themotor'sbrushes allowed 115 volts to be applied to the outer metal case - ask mehow Iknow! @#$%#%$&*^ Don from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Mon Nov 23 07:33:00 1998 IAA04589 Subject: RE: Question Joe is correct, A&F carried some of the Best of the Best. Rods by Payne,Halstead, Edwards. Reels by Bogden, Hardy, Julius Von Hoff, Talbot.Original art, prints, guns, planning a safari, etc. Went out of business inthe 70's. How I missed this store that was located on 7 or 8 floors inmid- town Manhattan. You had to be at their GOING OUT OF BUSINESS SALE,incredible! Don't ever remember them selling Leonard rods though. Thename is still used today, it is however NOT THE SAME STORE! Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, November 20, 1998 7:45 PM Subject: Re: Question Hey Tony,I dunno what sort of rod this is, but A&F apparentlycarried pretty goodgear in bygone days. I think their cane rods were made byLeonard (at leastat one point). I know that their cane rods higher end reelsfetch highprices on the online auction market (Ebay). If anyone elsehas specificinfo about old A&F rods, I'd also like to know. Best,Joe At 02:49 PM 11/20/98 -0600, you wrote:This is part of a message I got . I sent what info I knewabout thestore but have no info on the rod. Would like to know moreabout it.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com My mother found a fly rod at a garage sale. 5 pieces.Called Abercrombie & Fitch safari rod. Says a70 on theside nothing else. Isn't that a retail store?Ever heard of it or the rod? Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Mon Nov 23 07:49:19 1998 IAA08151 Subject: RE: Need info on Payne Rod. Telling someone a rod is worth $1,800 may be in the ball park, but wasrefinished by someone in the Catskills. Who? Can devalue significantly.Also, telling him to go to a dealer will also reduce amount he will get.Suggest if there is a collector among us to offer a good price. Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, November 21, 1998 5:40 PM Subject: Re: Need info on Payne Rod. In a message dated 11/21/98 9:12:28 AM Pacific StandardTime,LECLAIR123@aol.com writes: Anyone out there into Payne Rods. I have a customer with aPayne rod lookingto sell. Need information on model and value of this rod. Payne- 8ft.- three piece- with two tips.Aluminum up locking screw seat, with walnut filler.Marked- Sold byH & D Folsom Arms Co.-New YorkWraps at guides are Brown with Tan tippingWraps at ferrules are Brown,then clear, then Blacktipping.Wrap at front of grip is Brown,then clear, thenBlack tippingAget stripper guideFerrules are blued.This rod was redone years ago by a rodmaker in theCatskills, NY-verygood jobAll sections are original lengthSnake guides look like stainless or chrome- nottungston. Any information on this rod would beappreciated. Also, anyoneinterestedin buying this rod, let me know, as he doesn't wanthis children tofightover itwhen he passes away.He would rather get rid of it now. Thanks,Dave LeClair Dave, Tell him to contact one or more of the big rod list guys.Len Codella (352)637-5420, Martin Keane (413) 229-7988, Bob Corsetti (603)886- 0411. Or tell him that I'll come cry at his wake if he sends therod to me now. Don Burns from Canerods@aol.com Mon Nov 23 08:15:26 1998 Subject: Re: Feedback: Bob Marriott's FFF '98/No sweat In a message dated 11/23/98 4:57:29 AM Pacific Standard Time,Grhghlndr@aol.com writes: Don and list,The reason orvis is closing out those waders at such a low price is that theyhad a lot of trouble with them leaking from little pin holes. I know thisbecause I used to be an orvis dealer and I took so many of them in for returnsto orvis. If I was going to try someones no-sweats i would go withSimmsorHodgman. i have a pair of Hodgmans that are over 20 years old (not no-sweats)that are still going strong, not one leak yet.Bret Bret, Then I guess I'll be returning mine before the 4 year warranty is up. Ibetterlocate the receipt and put it aside somewhere. Thanks for the feedback. My latest neoprenes didn't last 3 years - darn cat used them as ascratchingpost when they were hung to dry. So many pinholes that patching themseemeduseless. Anyone need any dubbing material - cat is working off a set ofwaders. Don PS - OBTW, latest issue of FBR was not available off the mag. rack atB.M.'s(sold out?), but Ed Pearlman had a few free copies to hand out. PPS - The brownish nickel "T-brand" reel's name that I couldn't rememberbefore was Teton, I believe. About $185 and machined from bar-stock AL. from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Mon Nov 23 08:18:52 1998 Subject: RE: Question Anyone know who made the A&F Banty Fiberglass rod? Regards, BP2 On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Hanzich, Al (MLPT) wrote: Joe is correct, A&F carried some of the Best of the Best. Rods by Payne,Halstead, Edwards. Reels by Bogden, Hardy, Julius Von Hoff, Talbot.Original art, prints, guns, planning a safari, etc. Went out of business inthe 70's. How I missed this store that was located on 7 or 8 floors inmid- town Manhattan. You had to be at their GOING OUT OF BUSINESSSALE,incredible! Don't ever remember them selling Leonard rods though. Thename is still used today, it is however NOT THE SAME STORE! Al Hanzich732-878-6567 from jkallo@midwest.net Mon Nov 23 08:46:06 1998 Subject: Re: Feedback: Bob Marriott's FFF '98/No sweat Hi all. Not to continue a thread about non-rodmaking matters unduly, but I talkedto my local Orvis guys a few days ago and they told me the No- Sweatwaderswere going to be $170 or so for the new year. The clearwater versionwouldbe droped to $129. All of this is due, I am told, to Orvis having boughtout Stream Design. Sounds like Bob M was just reflectiing the upcomingprice reduction (my local shop said they would do the same). Joe At 09:14 AM 11/23/98 EST, you wrote:In a message dated 11/23/98 4:57:29 AM Pacific Standard Time,Grhghlndr@aol.com writes: Don and list,The reason orvis is closing out those waders at such a low price is that theyhad a lot of trouble with them leaking from little pin holes. I knowthisbecause I used to be an orvis dealer and I took so many of them in for returnsto orvis. If I was going to try someones no-sweats i would go withSimmsorHodgman. i have a pair of Hodgmans that are over 20 years old (not no-sweats)that are still going strong, not one leak yet.Bret Bret, Then I guess I'll be returning mine before the 4 year warranty is up. Ibetterlocate the receipt and put it aside somewhere. Thanks for the feedback. My latest neoprenes didn't last 3 years - darn cat used them as ascratchingpost when they were hung to dry. So many pinholes that patching themseemeduseless. Anyone need any dubbing material - cat is working off a set ofwaders. Don PS - OBTW, latest issue of FBR was not available off the mag. rack atB.M.'s(sold out?), but Ed Pearlman had a few free copies to hand out. PPS - The brownish nickel "T-brand" reel's name that I couldn't rememberbefore was Teton, I believe. About $185 and machined from bar-stock AL. Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Mon Nov 23 09:33:32 1998 Subject: Ground Fault Interrupters Don,Actually, your mother-in-laws 50 yr. old drill was wired with a twoprong plug. Both prongs of the plug were the same size. This allowedyou to plug in the drill so that the switch was breaking the neutrallead. Most of todays appliances have plugs where one prong is slightlylarger than the other. This makes you plug the appliance in so that theswitch controls the "Hot" lead. That is if the outlet is wiredcorrectly. Also, if todays appliances have a two prong plug, they are"Double Insulated". This means that the design has passed U.L. teststhat deliberately try to cause a short to the operator. Remember, alltesting done in labs cannot possibly duplicate all possible conditionstoo which consumers will subject appliances. It's extremely hard to I know of one person who was killed using a drill similar to the one youdescribed. He plugged a two wire extension cord into a wall socket andplugged an old drill into the cord and stepped into a metal boat thatwas in the water to do some repair work. It killed him instantly. Thecasing of the drill was "Hot". A metal boat in water is an excellentground. He was the conductor to ground. Ground Fault Interrupters are great safety devices. However, there aresome guidelines to follow when installing them. If you are using a GFIBreaker, never put lights on that circuit. It messes them up and willcause nuisance tripping of the breaker. I have seen this problem whenhomeowners do remodeling and try to install them. They try to containcosts by having minimal circuits, so they combine receptacles withlights. If using GFI outlets, you can put five additional outlets downstream ofthe GFI outlet, according to most codes, and they will have the same GFIprotection. However, do not put a lighting circuit downstream of theGFI outlet. It can be upstream of the GFI but not downstream. Puttinglights and receptacles on the same circuit is not good practice. If youblow a circuit breaker or trip the GFI due to an appliance, you will beleft in the dark. If they are on different circuits, you can find yourway to the breaker panel or GFI receptacle. Also those outletsdownstream of the GFI outlet should be marked as be protected by a GFIoutlet. I know of a case where outlet in a kitchen and master bathreceptacles were downstream of a receptacle in a guest bath. Somethingcaused the GFI to trip and the folks were three weeks without thesereceptacles working because they didn't know that they needed to go intothe guest bath and reset the GFI. The wife and I happened to bevisiting when they told us of the problem. I looked around and pushedthe reset in the guest bath and everything worked. Hope this helpsDick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net from rclarke@eou.edu Mon Nov 23 10:38:34 1998 Subject: Re: oven thermostats Thanks Dick and Wayne for further clarification. As I said earlier, I amno electrician. I got through the wiring with some help from my friendTomPenrose. Safety is a big issue when working with electricity, so pleaseget more help if you are unsure. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Dick & Kathy Fuhrman Subject: Re: oven thermostats Date: Sunday, November 22, 1998 5:46 AM David,Robert is almost totally correct. The first question I have for you iswhat voltage are you going to run you oven on? If 115 V then the blackwire from the cord should go to the thermostat and the white wireshouldgodirectly to the heater element by way of the high temperature wire. Are you using a cord with the plug already attached? (Molded on) If youhave to attach a plug to the cord, the white wire gores to the "Bright"screw and the black wire goes to the "Brass" screw. The ground wiregoesto the green screw of the plug. from there it goes to the junction box. If you want you can attach it to one of the screws attaching the heatingelement to the oven. Again, use high temperature wire inside the oven. On 115 V, the black wire is the "Hot" lead and the "White" wire is theneutral lead. You want the thermostat to control the "Hot" side of thecircuit. Remember the thermostat is only an off/on switch. A fancyswitchthat can decide when to turn off an on based on your setting thetemperature but just a switch. If you are using 220 V, you probably should have a different thermostat. On 220 V both leads are "Hot" and should be controlled by the thermostat. All of this discourse is for safety sake.RegardsDick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net from dr_matro@cyberramp.net Mon Nov 23 10:55:03 1998 ESMTP id KAA04967 Subject: Multi-tools mac-creator="4D4F5353" Anyone out there have experience (opinions) with the mini-multi-tools?The lathe-mill-drillpress type. Smithy and Enco brands are all I'veseen. TIA. KC from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Nov 23 11:45:27 1998 Subject: Re: FW: Error Condition Re: RE: D*g*st? In a message dated 11/22/98 4:22:28 PM Pacific Standard Time,lblan@provide.net writes: ust had to send this one. I tried to respond to a post. The listserveapparently felt that it was a mis-guided attempt at subscribing to thedigest, and bounced it. My original reply is below the note from theserver.Aren't computers just grand! Had the same problem a couple of years ago. The problem isthe word "Set" is a reserved keyword, and the listserverautomatically kicks in when it sees it and then tries to interpretthe next word as a modifier for the command. P. S. Don't start your message with "Get" either. Darryl from fr.keulen@wxs.nl Mon Nov 23 11:59:11 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA12AE +0100 Subject: the right diameter Members, I seem to have trouble getting the right diameters of the rods I make. Iknowthis problem has cropped up earlier on the list. I plane the strips exactlyaccording to the tapers of the various rods. Yetl after gluing them they areinvariably thicker than the correct diameter allows. Could the glue be theproblem?Any suggested solutions? Rens Oosthoek, the (n)ever learning Dutchman from sjstill@iquest.net Mon Nov 23 13:28:04 1998 0000 (209.43.47.230) Subject: Re: Multi-tools Ken Cole wrote: Anyone out there have experience (opinions) with the mini-multi-tools?The lathe-mill-drillpress type. Smithy and Enco brands are all I'veseen. Ken, Speaking as one who just recently had a Shopsmith 5-in-one woodworking"thing", my first thought would be "Stay away". I am now of the opinionthat one tool should sdo one job and do it well. There are exceptions,but you get the idea. FWIW, Steve from chris@artistree.com Mon Nov 23 13:28:29 1998 Subject: Re: Feedback: Bob Marriott's FFF '98/No sweat I agree. Big fan of Hodgmans products.-- Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail:chris@artistree.com Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote:If I was going to try someones no-sweats i would go with Simms orHodgman. i have a pair of Hodgmans that are over 20 years old (not no-sweats)that are still going strong, not one leak yet.Bret from tom@cet-inc.com Mon Nov 23 13:36:27 1998 0000 Subject: Lathe Tool Post & Holders boundary="----=_NextPart_000_02FA_01BE16EF.1725CA60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_02FA_01BE16EF.1725CA60 I use a 9" South Bend lathe to make reel seats and ferrules in addition =to general household use. I've been thinking of upgrading the original =tool holder to the quick change type. My options from MSC are the piston =type from phaseII (about $170) or the DTM locking type (about $525). Any =thoughts on the two types and whether the DTM type is worth the extra =money. ------=_NextPart_000_02FA_01BE16EF.1725CA60 I use a 9" South Bend latheto = seats and ferrules in addition to general household use. I've been = upgrading the original tool holder to the quick change type. My options = are the piston type from phaseII (about $170) or the DTM locking type = $525). Any thoughts on the two types and whether the DTM type is worth = money. ------=_NextPart_000_02FA_01BE16EF.1725CA60-- from jczimny@dol.net Mon Nov 23 14:46:10 1998 0500 Subject: RE: Lathe Tool Post & Holders =_NextPart_000_01BE16F7.4C0CE800" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE16F7.4C0CE800 I'd like seriously at the company that sells them through the "Home Shop =Machinist". I use one and it is a very good value.John Z -----Original Message----- Subject: Lathe Tool Post & Holders I use a 9" South Bend lathe to make reel seats and ferrules in addition =to general household use. I've been thinking of upgrading the original =tool holder to the quick change type. My options from MSC are the piston =type from phaseII (about $170) or the DTM locking type (about $525). Any =thoughts on the two types and whether the DTM type is worth the extra =money. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE16F7.4C0CE800 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE16F7.4C0CE800-- from jczimny@dol.net Mon Nov 23 14:49:54 1998 0500 Subject: RE: Lathe Tool Post & HoldersDate: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:39:03 - 0500 =_NextPart_000_01BE16F8.498B02A0" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE16F8.498B02A0 -----Original Message----- Subject: Lathe Tool Post & Holders I use a 9" South Bend lathe to make reel seats and ferrules in addition =to general household use. I've been thinking of upgrading the original =tool holder to the quick change type. My options from MSC are the piston =type from phaseII (about $170) or the DTM locking type (about $525). Any =thoughts on the two types and whether the DTM type is worth the extra =money. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE16F8.498B02A0 eJ8+IhkUAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNyb3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYA1AEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAALAA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAUwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAHJvZG1ha2Vyc0B3dWdhdGUud3VzdGwuZWR1AFNNVFAAcm9kbWFrZXJzQHd1Z2F0ZS53dXN0bC5lZHUAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEAAAAbAAAAcm9kbWFrZXJzQHd1Z2F0ZS53dXN0bC5lZHUAAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAAB0AAAAncm9kbWFrZXJzQHd1Z2F0ZS53dXN0bC5lZHUnAAAAAAIBCzABAAAAIAAAAFNNVFA6Uk9ETUFLRVJTQFdVR0FURS5XVVNUTC5FRFUAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAB4A9l8BAAAAGwAAAHJvZG1ha2Vyc0B3dWdhdGUud3VzdGwuZWR1AAACAfdfAQAAAFMAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9UAgAAAAByb2RtYWtlcnNAd3VnYXRlLnd1c3RsLmVkdQBTTVRQAHJvZG1ha2Vyc0B3dWdhdGUud3VzdGwuZWR1AAADAP1fAQAAAAMA/18AAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAiFtAQSAAQAeAAAAUkU6IExhdGhlIFRvb2wgUG9zdCAmIEhvbGRlcnMAmgkBBYADAA4AAADOBwsAFwAPACcAAwABADEBASCAAwAOAAAAzgcLABcADwAiABUAAQA+AQEJgAEAIQAAADIwNzg0MUYwMUYxN0JFMTE5ODZFNEFDRTZCOUVGRjQ3AEoHAQOQBgDgBQAAIQAAAAsAAgABAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAAAAAAAwAuAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQBAPPtOIRe+AR4AcAABAAAAHgAAAFJFOiBMYXRoZSBUb29sIFBvc3QgJiBIb2xkZXJzAAAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAb4XIU77RRWZg4LpEdKky4bEuVa3PgAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABAAAABqY3ppbW55QGRvbC5uZXQAAwAGEDasocEDAAcQzwEAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAC0tLS0tT1JJR0lOQUxNRVNTQUdFLS0tLS1GUk9NOlRPTVdISVRUTEVTTVRQOlRPTUBDRVQtSU5DQ09NU0VOVDpNT05EQVksTk9WRU1CRVIyMywxOTk4Mjo0MFBNVE86Uk9ETUEAAAAAAgEJEAEAAADCAgAAvgIAALYDAABMWkZ1HvvPk3cACgEDAfcgAqQD4wIAY4JoCsBzZXQwIAcThwKDAFAO9nBycTIP9iZ9CoAIyCA7CW8yNWY1AoAKgXVjAFALA2MDAEELYG5nMTAzM+kMYGxuAiBlC6cKsQqEwwqECzBsaTM2AUAVECsWsQNgdAWQdBCEMTbUIC0Zgk8FEGcLgAdAwwXQB5BzYWdlGYMWxg8YlBazCzEYlmktMTTGNAFAF+AxODABQAzQUR0jYiBGA2E6DINihQ/gVANwIFdoaQJAAGxlIFtTTVRQpDp0A3BAYw/ALQuA5GMuBaBtXRbFHlAGYAsCMB63TQIgZGF5LDEHsG92ZQbQBJAgMkIzIyAxOTk4I8A68R1AIFBNIWcfQB63A2AKZADAawSQc0B3dVRnYRiwLiawcx/ALscJgAxwIXd1YmoYwR63ekwm4Ggf4B9ABvAkoG/hJ0AgJiBIBvAEgQ9Azxs/HEkX5BZbSSAnMB/gcGEgOSIGAAhgKWAgckIJ8GQgC2ApYiBgIP8mQiYACeADIA+wJuAEIABw9S8QZgSQchXgB5ELgC4g9GRkH6BpAiAvghqwFiD6choxaAhgD7AzACqALeLQLiBJJyNgICOQCfATL4AfkG5rC4BnIG/6Zi3gcAnAMcA04iliBbB/GfUgYCnBM1IjoS+RKWJx4HVpY2sgD3EVcC9x5HlwM8FNeTUQBTAyEXcEIANSBdFDLiAJcDXjcN8EACBgMjE40TnEcA+AD7AaSS3QKAGgLpEgJDEYNzApNiE140RUTb0vIG84IDWzO2I8djUUAHIpM9BBbjkwKWAIYGfuaDCRMiIvYnc3kTjRMKT+dylwKWE9WDtTBABBsAkR4y7AKWJleHQywC+wFhEceS4Wyh9CFsQgPDyTHmADEGU6D/BUVB2wlUbRLkAwbQMgPj5FlQUSAQBIUAAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAgAAAAMAgBD/////QAAHMEA1nKYgF74BQAAIMEA1nKYgF74BCwAAgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAA4UAAAAAAAADAAKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAQhQAAAAAAAAMABYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFKFAAC3DQAAHgAlgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAVIUAAAEAAAAEAAAAOC4wAAMAJoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAGFAAAAAAAACwAvgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAADoUAAAAAAAADADCACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAARhQAAAAAAAAMAMoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABiFAAAAAAAAHgBBgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAANoUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AQoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADeFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAEOACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA4hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAADAA00/TcAANRK ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE16F8.498B02A0-- from stpete@netten.net Mon Nov 23 15:41:55 1998 cedar.netten.net(8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA20105 for ;Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:41:52 Subject: Speaking of Epon... List, I just finished gluing up another rod with Epon. I keep a rag soaked in vinegar handy for clean-up. This time, though, Iwrung out excess vinegar from the rag and wiped down the freshly boundblanks. I couldn't help myself. It seemed such a handy thing to do, toremove excess glue early. Now, I'm wondering what I have done. Will even the little bit ofvinegar on the rag foul up the cure? I wiped the blanks down with aclean rag after the vinegar rag. What will I find tomorrow when I easethe binding cord off the blanks? Any experience out there with this? How sensitive is the Epon to the vinegar? I know it cleans up thebinder like a champ! Thanks, Rick Crenshaw from trout@ricochet.net Mon Nov 23 15:53:51 1998 Subject: Interesting group mac-creator="4D4F5353" I learned how to make split can rods in the 60's after reading Kreider'sbook in the Tacoma public library and badgering a neighbor who was aformer employee of the Thomas Rod Company into teaching me a fewtricksof the trade. I tried for a brief time in the 1970's to build cane rodsas a full time job and found it so difficult to make a living that Iwent back to school to get a doctorate in fisheries science. Believeme, that was easier than turning a buck at the bamboo rod trade.Reading the messages on this list has revived my interest in rodbuilding to the point where I may actually divert valuable fishing timetoward the construction of some new rods (my wife has suggested a golfbag to carry my rods when I'm on the stream...but she refuses to be myrod cady). I used urushi for some projects about a decade ago. It is difficult towork with but produces a rock hard high gloss finish when properlyapplied. I used it on traditional Japanese furniture and art work andcan't say how much flexing it will take but I believe it is used ontraditional Japanese fly rods (which are quite different from westernsplit cane flyrods). I had to quit using it because my wife developed aviolent reaction to it. Urushi is made from the sap of a Japanese shrubthat is a member of the sumac family and produces a reaction similar tothat of poison sumac or poison ivy. I have tried to download several attachments that were listed asTYPE:application/ms-tnef. Netscape does not know what to do with thefile so I export it to my macintoshes desktop and get a document filelabeled "cane%20rods." Could someone tell me what application producedthese files. If it is a DOS or Windows program, I can probably run itunder an emulation of its native system. It is always a good idea tomention what kind of file has been attached to an e-mail message whensending it. I'm sorry to take so much band width with this message and I will try inthe future to only post messages when I have something of value to say. from harry37@epix.net Mon Nov 23 15:56:10 1998 SMTP id QAA01408 Subject: Re: Terrible Russia fishing trip jan nystråm wrote: Hi all,want to tell you about a terrible experience from a troutfishing trip to the Kola peninsula this summer. Loop is a companyknown to arrange trips to the trout paradise Kharlowka and Litzarivers in Kola peninsula in Russia! Everything looks very nice inthe prospects but the truth is Loop has had serious problems withthe arrangements. Last summer a group of Swedes, me included, were booked by theLoop company for this fishing paradise. Meeting point was theMurmansk city in northern Kola peninsula in Russia. We weresurprised to find there were no people from the Loop companymeeting us. We were introduced to a women from a Russian companyat the airport and then in a hurry taken by helicopter fromMurmansk to a place we had not agreed to, because some papers byLoop were not approved by the Russian people. The group wanted tostay in Murmansk until the papers were fixed but was told therewas not going to be a new arrangement by helicopter. We were alsoinformed that the new fishing place was a place as good in everyaspect as the original. We were also promised to be transported to the original fishing place within 1-2 days.The place was 70 miles away from the agreed trout paradise, out in the empty Tundra, and a real fishing catastrophy. The grouparrived 11.30 in the night in a tremendous mosquito inferno andthe helicopter was gone when it was found that the tents Loop hadbought for this trip were left behind because Loop did not care to do a check before start. We had especially asked Loop if we should take our own tents, but was informed there was no need for this.The promised trout water was a 100-150 yard wide river, a typicalsalmon type of river, far from the small creeks and beautifulenvironment we had payed for.In the morning, before any attempt to fish, a group of Russianmilitary arrived by helicopter and confiscated the fishingequipment(!!) because the group was said to be in a forbiddenarea. By a chance one in the group did have a satelite navigatorshowing the group was at a river about 100 miles from the BarentsSea where the closest community, a Salmon fishing camp wassituated. Without sufficient mosquito protection, no possibilities to fish, no communication equipment and not enough food (therussian cook was told they only needed food supply for 2-3 days as the fishing was supposed to fill the rest), the group was sittingin the open tundra of Kola peninsula without anyone payingattention. No helicopter was seen or heard from for 6 days. Byluck all in our group were well trained for wilderness survivaland otherwise well equipped and none was taken ill. The sixth daywe started to arrange for building a raft taking us the 50 milesto the closest salmon camp. The day the "paradise trip" wassupposed to end (6 days after!) at 11.00 in the night, the groupwas abrupt collected by a helicopter to Murmansk for furtertransportation back to Sweden without any explanation at all. The worst thing is, Loop did not accept to take the responsibility fo their mistakes in the arrangement even though our group had all the arrangement and contracts with the Loop company. The incidentis now up for legal actions. Jan Nystrom, a member in the group. jan--- Stick to rodbuilding, and fight your court battles in court. Greg from anglport@con2.com Mon Nov 23 16:12:19 1998 Subject: Re: Speaking of Epon... Rick,Had the same sinking feeling two weeks ago when gluing up a blank. So far,so good. Don't think it got to the joints. Good luck or we'll cry together.Art At 03:37 PM 11/23/98 -0600, you wrote:List, I just finished gluing up another rod with Epon. I keep a rag soaked in vinegar handy for clean-up. This time, though, Iwrung out excess vinegar from the rag and wiped down the freshly boundblanks. I couldn't help myself. It seemed such a handy thing to do, toremove excess glue early. Now, I'm wondering what I have done. Will even the little bit ofvinegar on the rag foul up the cure? I wiped the blanks down with aclean rag after the vinegar rag. What will I find tomorrow when I easethe binding cord off the blanks? Any experience out there with this? How sensitive is the Epon to the vinegar? I know it cleans up thebinder like a champ! Thanks, Rick Crenshaw from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Nov 23 17:00:21 1998 0600 Subject: Re: Speaking of Epon... RC, Art,Can't speak for Epon, but the vinegar doesn't seem to hurt Nyatex at all.In fact, i wish St. Wayne would have expounded more on that in his book. Makesgetting the glue off of the blank much easier.Richard Tyree, St. Wayne, and others have mentioned a little trick thathelps also. After letting epoxy cure for 16 hours, remove glue soakedbindingstring. Then re-bind and heat set. My guess is that trick saved me about 6hours of sanding on my last blanks.Harry from jfoster@gte.net Mon Nov 23 17:19:59 1998 Subject: collets mac-creator="4D4F5353" Dave, John, i have recently acquired a pile of collets, unfortunately they aremetric... is there a way to enlarge them..drill, ream, bore,etc.. ibelieve they are hardened..may be a tuffy. thanks jerry from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Nov 23 17:49:44 1998 Subject: RE: Holden's book back in print Richard FYI - Here is the receipt that I got from B&N - I even savedon shipping: Had to pay VA Sales tax but I am still ahead on the bottomline. We received your order on Nov 22, 1998 19:40 EST You ordered: TITLE QTY PRICE----- - -- ----- --------Subtotal $ 17.46Tax $ 0.96Shipping $ 3.95--------Total $ 22.37 So let the nickels fall where they may - buy from whatever sourcepeople want but . . . Chris On Sun, 22 Nov 1998 21:28:37 -0500, Richard Nantel wrote: There must be some mistake. I just ordered it from Amazon.com and itcosts: Item(s) Subtotal: $ 17.47Shipping & Handling: $ 5.95Tax: $ 0.00-------TOTAL DUE: $ 23.42 Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Sunday, November 22, 1998 7:23 PM Subject: Re: Holden's book back in print Chris Barnes and Nobel price is $21.41 with S&H and Amazon is $21.42. Though is looks like I need a life, I am just avoiding doing some work. Rich Jezioro At 05:03 PM 11/22/98 -0500, you wrote: George I just checked www.barnesandnoble.com and they have it for $17.46plusshipping: The Idyll of the Split BambooIn-Stock: Ships within 24 hours.George Parker Holden / Hardcover / Date Published: September 1998Retail Price: $24.95 Our Price: $17.46, You Save $7.49 (30%) Regards Chris --Original Message Text---From: irish-georgeDate: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 13:15:52 -0800 The Idyll of the Split Bamboo is back in print -- I discovered it onAmazon.com and ordered a copy. You should be able to get it at variousbookstores (on Amazon.com it was about $21.50 including shipping). George Bourke *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ /||/______/_||_________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > / \ > Regards Chris from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Nov 23 17:51:19 1998 Subject: Re: All you nodeless types Max / Don You guys scare me - the truth lies in the casting not the breaking. Chris On Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:58:43 +0900, Max Satoh wrote: Don Andersen wrote: At 12:24 21/11/98 +0900, Max wrote: A bunch of ideas that I snipped. Max, It was not a scientific test by any means. Just broke a bunch of strips -some aged 15 or more years, some planed, some not, some large, somesmall,some tempered and some not - they all failed between the nodes.Like Ed says, the part that fails first is the weakest. Doesn't muchmatterhow the fibers line up or where the pith is or whatever. I agree with this. Node portion is stiffer than internode portion. Node strength seems to be dogma and need further testing to determinewhatthe relative strengths of the internodal section vs the nodes might be. I thought around what was dogma in my mind and tried to find someexplicit statements by searching Garrison's andWayne's book, and found in Master's Guide at page 20 under a picture, asfollows; "Since nodes are not strong under working sresses, you should strive toget solid cane placed on all six flats at the point where the end of the ferrule cap and thebamboo will meet. Rods often break at the ferrule since it is the area of greatest stress, and you shouldguard against adding to an already existing hazard." As far as I know, no one yet has said that node is weaker thaninternodal section in general but we seem to tend to believethat node might be weaker than internodal section in general from thecaution message from Garrison as above. You already experimented that an entire length of bend will causeinternodal section to be broken first.Our interest now is against when a concentrated force is placed at thepoint like just below a ferrule and if node is placed there, whether it is stronger than internodalsection. Right?I would try this test and compare two cases and post the results. Allowme for some period of time for this. Would be a real shame to have all those nodes wasted that could makestronger and therefore lighter for the same OD rods This should be after finding the fact.Nodeless may have several good points too. Smoother rod action andsmoother bend.Do you agree with these? regards, Don Don, I appreciate your experiments and posting it. I have not been so brave to break a limited number of splits as you.I like such volunteer-ism very much. Max, your fan -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.html from stpete@netten.net Mon Nov 23 17:52:36 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12)with SMTP id RAA00429 for ; Mon, 23 Nov Subject: Re: Speaking of Epon... Harry, That little trick is what I'm going to do in the morning, except Ihadn't planned on rebinding or heat setting. I understand Epon doesn'trequire heat setting. Thus far I haven't heat set my Epon blanks. I dorecall someone mentioning that heating will speed up the curing process- I'd love to know if it strengthens the bond. If anyone has ANY special Epon tricks, I'd appreciate hearing aboutthem. I remember the great adhesive discussions on the list when Ifirst joined over a year and a half ago. Epon had relatively fewproponents. I think there are more builders with experience out therenow. Experiences with mix ratios (I use 1:1 by volume), application tricks (Iwarm my mixed epoxy with a heat gun while I stir it), binding, clean-up,etc. would be useful to many. Thanks,RickHarry Boyd wrote: RC, Art,Can't speak for Epon, but the vinegar doesn't seem to hurt Nyatex atall.In fact, i wish St. Wayne would have expounded more on that in his book. Makesgetting the glue off of the blank much easier.Richard Tyree, St. Wayne, and others have mentioned a little trick thathelps also. After letting epoxy cure for 16 hours, remove glue soakedbindingstring. Then re-bind and heat set. My guess is that trick saved me about6hours of sanding on my last blanks.Harry from jczimny@dol.net Mon Nov 23 17:55:24 1998 0500 Subject: RE: collets =_NextPart_000_01BE1712.37F4E8C0" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE1712.37F4E8C0 Usually, good collets are too hard to ream to the next highest English =dimension. I'd put them in a rack and use them as is. You'll find many = I sure wish all our dimensions were metric.John Z -----Original Message----- Subject: collets Dave, John, i have recently acquired a pile of collets, unfortunately they aremetric... is there a way to enlarge them..drill, ream, bore,etc.. ibelieve they are hardened..may be a tuffy. thanks jerry ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE1712.37F4E8C0 eJ8+IgIXAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNyb3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYA1AEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAALAA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAUwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAHJvZG1ha2Vyc0B3dWdhdGUud3VzdGwuZWR1AFNNVFAAcm9kbWFrZXJzQHd1Z2F0ZS53dXN0bC5lZHUAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEAAAAbAAAAcm9kbWFrZXJzQHd1Z2F0ZS53dXN0bC5lZHUAAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAAB0AAAAncm9kbWFrZXJzQHd1Z2F0ZS53dXN0bC5lZHUnAAAAAAIBCzABAAAAIAAAAFNNVFA6Uk9ETUFLRVJTQFdVR0FURS5XVVNUTC5FRFUAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAB4A9l8BAAAAGwAAAHJvZG1ha2Vyc0B3dWdhdGUud3VzdGwuZWR1AAACAfdfAQAAAFMAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9UAgAAAAByb2RtYWtlcnNAd3VnYXRlLnd1c3RsLmVkdQBTTVRQAHJvZG1ha2Vyc0B3dWdhdGUud3VzdGwuZWR1AAADAP1fAQAAAAMA/18AAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAiFtAQSAAQAMAAAAUkU6IGNvbGxldHMA5wMBBYADAA4AAADOBwsAFwASAC4AJQABAF0BASCAAwAOAAAAzgcLABcAEgAsABIAAQBIAQEJgAEAIQAAADM4Q0Y5NURDM0ExN0JFMTE5ODZFNEFDRTZCOUVGRjQ3AIQHAQOQBgD0BQAAIQAAAAsAAgABAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAAAAAAAwAuAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQDgml6COxe+AR4AcAABAAAADAAAAFJFOiBjb2xsZXRzAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG+FzuCVjFp8KGDBBHSpMuGxLlWtz4AAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAQAAAAamN6aW1ueUBkb2wubmV0AAMABhD+rELzAwAHEOEBAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABVU1VBTExZLEdPT0RDT0xMRVRTQVJFVE9PSEFSRFRPUkVBTVRPVEhFTkVYVEhJR0hFU1RFTkdMSVNIRElNRU5TSU9OSURQVVRUSEVNSU5BUkFDS0FORFVTRVRIRU1BU0lTWU9VAAAAAAIBCRABAAAA6QIAAOUCAAALBAAATFpGdVfzk3EDAAoAcmNwZzEyNRYyAPgLYG4OEDAzM50B9yACpAPjAgBjaArA4HNldDAgBxMCgwBQoRB2cHJxMhF2fQqA2QjIIDsJbw4wNQKACoEsdWMAUAsDYwBBdWwKbgIgZQumIFVzdYEHQGx5LCBnbwRwOiAI4WwRQAQgCsBlILp0GGAgEQEYgBlgIAlwZGFtGeJ0aBlAFxB4UQVAaGlnGrBzBUBFxQ8gbAQAaCBkB3EAgSECIC4gSScYgHB1fwVAGqEaUAuAGRAaEADQa7UZEG4YgHURMB1UYQQgKwQAHMBZCGAnGAAgZocLgBiAA4F5IG9mHVTtGqBhBUAZImMJAB6iGoR7G7YAkHoHkBzACqIKgEn/IvAIcBlAA/EcEBfxIJAIcLscKAQgdwSQGUAHgHQFEERjLiN0Sm9oA6BazyN0J0gLMBvgMzYBQBaQUwFAEsBvdAWQdBIEMag2IC0qAk8FEGcLgIcHQAXQB5BzYWdlKgMfJ0YpFCjhCxMpFmktMYw0NAFAG+AxODABQKMM0C2jYiBGA2E6DIOqYhFgSgSQciCARiHQAykwBcBbU01UUDqmagIQMEJAZykwLhcQfHRdJ0Uu0AZgAjAvN02JAiBkYRghTm92HYASYjBhMjMYMDE5ObI4NJAwOjSgEXBNMfesVG8vNwNgZADAawSQ4HNAd3VnIUAxkDdQORuAbC4JgAxwMgd1Yv5qKUEvNxilK68suihkC7a5I4NEYTPwGDAm4iwnSu5pGZEz8BoRYzKRGBAZELBjcXVpCXEd0XADEM8ZQCChGKUYMHVuAhAAIP9BgDeBP5EaoT+hCXAjdCYV30OgH0EakhkxHeB3M5AZ4rsJ8AtgciswHVNDoGQFEL8YABgwGiIYMAbgCXAsEUDfQ5EdoCN0NCAb4GU/AUJm/xmTCfAJgEOgAMAggDQgHdE7QdABIHkmdSN0ISFua786RyOSORAv4SdKE4EATaAAAAADABAQAAAAAAMAERAAAAAAAwCAEP////9AAAcwgFi9LzsXvgFAAAgwgFi9LzsXvgELAACACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAADhQAAAAAAAAMAAoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABCFAAAAAAAAAwAFgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAUoUAALcNAAAeACWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABUhQAAAQAAAAQAAAA4LjAAAwAmgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAAYUAAAAAAAALAC+ACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAOhQAAAAAAAAMAMIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABGFAAAAAAAAAwAygAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAGIUAAAAAAAAeAEGACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA2hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgBCgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAN4UAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AQ4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADiFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAAMADTT9NwAAYkk= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE1712.37F4E8C0-- from saweiss@flash.net Mon Nov 23 18:01:49 1998 Subject: Re: Lathe Tool Post & Holders Tom,I'd like seriously at the company that sells them through the "Home ShopMachinist". I use one and it is a very good value.John Z John,Do you have an address, phone # or e-mail address for "Home ShopMachinist"?Steve from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Nov 23 19:08:31 1998 0600 Subject: Re: Holden's book back in print Chris, et al How 'bout a little review of Dr. Holden's book? I've bought everybook on bamboo I can find, and lately have found some of them to berather repitious. I think I'm up to about a half a dozen books, orabout $250 worth. Don't get me wrong, each of them was worth the price Ipaid, but before I spend another $20 or so on a re-print of a book fromthe 1920's(??) maybe someone else could share the high and low points.I guess what I'm asking about is if there is more than an historicalinterest here.Thanks in advance,Harry Boyd from saweiss@flash.net Mon Nov 23 19:19:00 1998 Subject: Re: collets Usually, good collets are too hard to ream to the next highest Englishdimension. I'd put them in a rack and use them as is. You'll find many ofthem that are close to the English sizes.I sure wish all our dimensions were metric.John Z Jerry,I agree with John. Don't ruin a good set of expensive collets. If you can'tuse them, sell them on e-bay.Steve from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Nov 23 19:24:50 1998 Subject: Re: RE: Holden's book back in print Called Barnes and Noble today and they had the book in stock. I calledthemand they had two in stock I got one. Cost me as much there as if I boughtitthru Amazon Books.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Nov 23 19:32:33 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Holden's book back in print Harry,i bought the book today and I have been looking it over for a couple ofhours.as far as do you need it to learn anything about rod building the answer isno. If you want it in your collection to just have it and to see how it wasdone 70 years ago then I would go ahead and buy it. I bought it because Ithought it would be nice to have for my own enjoyment.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Nov 23 19:45:59 1998 Subject: Inexpensive binder weights List,While looking for a good cheap and not to heavy anchor for my BucksBagpontoonboat I got the idea to use an old window weight. I went to the salvageyardand they had many different sizes to choose from, and guess what theyevenhave their weights stamped on them. I picked up a couple to use and I gota 4pound one and a 2.5 pound one. The total cost per weight $1.00. Not to badAY and with a hack saw you could make them any size you like. They comewitha nice convenient hole in the top to put a hook thru to hang off the pulley.Bret from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Nov 23 19:48:02 1998 Subject: Re: the right diameter Rens,When you measure the triangle x-section of a single strip (or spline)you may be crushing the apex of the strip slightly which will give you aslightly smaller reading than the actual reading ,then when you measurethefinished rod flat-to-flat the real reading comes out. Also there may besomeincrease in dimension from the glue but it shouldn't be much.Regards,Hank W. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Nov 23 19:51:57 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Speaking of Epon... RC,Art, and Harry,I don't know if this will work with Epon as I use Urac but I removestringand glue and enamel with a scraper. Works like a champ!Regards,Hank W. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Nov 23 20:05:35 1998 Subject: Re: Need info on Payne Rod. Al,You're right. I told him the value of the rod and what he might get two different things. But, I told him I would do my best for him. Heseemslikea nice guy. Dave from jczimny@dol.net Mon Nov 23 20:22:13 1998 Subject: Re: Holden's book back in print I don't think that you'll find anything new in the book. Having read it, Ibelieve that buying it is purely an act of affection for the craft.John Z-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Holden's book back in print Chris, et al How 'bout a little review of Dr. Holden's book? I've bought everybook on bamboo I can find, and lately have found some of them to berather repitious. I think I'm up to about a half a dozen books, orabout $250 worth. Don't get me wrong, each of them was worth the priceIpaid, but before I spend another $20 or so on a re-print of a book fromthe 1920's(??) maybe someone else could share the high and low points.I guess what I'm asking about is if there is more than an historicalinterest here.Thanks in advance,Harry Boyd from richjez@enteract.com Mon Nov 23 21:54:04 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Holden's book back in print Amazon.com amkes it too late for your sage advice.Rich Jezioro At 09:07 PM 11/23/98 -0500, you wrote:I don't think that you'll find anything new in the book. Having read it, Ibelieve that buying it is purely an act of affection for the craft.John Z-----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 8:14 PMSubject: Re: Holden's book back in print Chris, et al How 'bout a little review of Dr. Holden's book? I've bought everybook on bamboo I can find, and lately have found some of them to berather repitious. I think I'm up to about a half a dozen books, orabout $250 worth. Don't get me wrong, each of them was worth the priceIpaid, but before I spend another $20 or so on a re-print of a book fromthe 1920's(??) maybe someone else could share the high and low points.I guess what I'm asking about is if there is more than an historicalinterest here.Thanks in advance,Harry Boyd *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ /||/______/_||_________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > from ragnarig@integrityol.com Mon Nov 23 22:13:07 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A4A3CA3004C; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 20:22:59 PDT Subject: Cork order update I have received a couple of queries as to the status of the cork order inwhich several list members had >participated. I hope the rest of themembership can bear with us as I explain myself to the sub-group. >Feelfree to punch- out now or listen in- your choice. The cork came a few days ago and I sent it back. It was crap. Well,perhaps not strictly "crap" but certainly not suitable for fine rodseither. I dumped out the rings and went through them to get an idea of theaverage quality, got more and more cheesed, then sent the supplier asrestrained an e-mail as I could manage. He quickly responded that he wasreally really sorry I wasn't satisfied and that he had gotten a "newsource" from which he was sure he could send me some superior product.My suspicion is that he just thought he'd send me the crap and save thegood stuff until he found out if I was a complete rube. But I'm naturallysuspicious. I'm going along with him mostly because I might have had to do the samewithanother dealer if I switched. A further reason is that recentinformation-since the order- seems to indicate >that the sort of cork I had in mind maybe unavailable at our price. I don't knowif my concept of what we might receive for our money coincides with thenotions of others. We'll see. I spoke with the head guy at REC and he said they've got cork that isreally really really good. He also said it costs a buck-and-a-half per.Hespecifically named "bamboo rodmakers" as the intended market for thisgrade of cork, and he laughed at the suggestion of volume discounts. If the people they want to gouge simply refuse their price, what willtheydo? Idon't think Sage et. al. will pay anything like such prices, although someindividualsmay. And further, I think that would be irresponsible. I will make mygrips out of wood (out of >spite :-) or anothermaterial before I go along with that kind of nonsense. They probablyfigurethat we can >afford four or five bucks per ring, since we sell our rods for$1500.00 each. (Anybody catch my drift?) I'm seriously wondering whether this type of "buying club" might bewhatis needed to counter such >practices on the part of suppliers. I think itis a concept worth exploring. After discovering a good source, >we couldexercise a lot more economic power as a unified bloc than we ever couldas afragmented >gaggle of... individuals. Anyway, although I fully expected to have this done and the corkdistributedbefore now, I made the decision I felt was called for, and am sorry ifanyone has been inconvenienced. Then again, I really don't think anyonewould have been happy with the stuff that was shipped and I felt thatmostparticipants wanted a little bit more than just the information we wouldgain. As I said from the outset, this is a trial (boy, is it!) to find out if goodcork is available for a decent price, and that patience is required. I'lllet you know when the picture gets a little clearer. Your forebearance isgreatly appreciated and, I heartily trust, will be rewarded. Davy from Jcheechov@aol.com Mon Nov 23 22:53:14 1998 Subject: Re: silk line ratings See Gierach's "Fishing Bamboo" for one source of line weight conversions.Jeff Cheechov from jhewitt@cmn.net Mon Nov 23 23:29:20 1998 Subject: Re: Cork order update David...keep on keepin' on!! David wrote: I have received a couple of queries as to the status of the cork order inwhich several list members had >participated. I hope the rest of themembership can bear with us as I explain myself to the sub-group. >Feelfree to punch- out now or listen in- your choice. The cork came a few days ago and I sent it back. It was crap. Well,perhaps not strictly "crap" but certainly not suitable for fine rodseither. I dumped out the rings and went through them to get an idea of theaverage quality, got more and more cheesed, then sent the supplier asrestrained an e-mail as I could manage. He quickly responded that hewasreally really sorry I wasn't satisfied and that he had gotten a "newsource" from which he was sure he could send me some superiorproduct.My suspicion is that he just thought he'd send me the crap and save thegood stuff until he found out if I was a complete rube. But I'm naturallysuspicious. I'm going along with him mostly because I might have had to do thesamewithanother dealer if I switched. A further reason is that recentinformation-since the order- seems to indicate >that the sort of cork I had in mindmaybe unavailable at our price. I don't knowif my concept of what we might receive for our money coincides withthenotions of others. We'll see. I spoke with the head guy at REC and he said they've got cork that isreally really really good. He also said it costs a buck-and-a-half per.Hespecifically named "bamboo rodmakers" as the intended market for thisgrade of cork, and he laughed at the suggestion of volume discounts. If the people they want to gouge simply refuse their price, what willtheydo? Idon't think Sage et. al. will pay anything like such prices, althoughsomeindividualsmay. And further, I think that would be irresponsible. I will make mygrips out of wood (out of >spite :- ) or anothermaterial before I go along with that kind of nonsense. They probablyfigurethat we can >afford four or five bucks per ring, since we sell our rodsfor$1500.00 each. (Anybody catch my drift?) I'm seriously wondering whether this type of "buying club" might bewhatis needed to counter such >practices on the part of suppliers. I think itis a concept worth exploring. After discovering a good source, >we couldexercise a lot more economic power as a unified bloc than we ever couldas afragmented >gaggle of... individuals. Anyway, although I fully expected to have this done and the corkdistributedbefore now, I made the decision I felt was called for, and am sorry ifanyone has been inconvenienced. Then again, I really don't think anyonewould have been happy with the stuff that was shipped and I felt thatmostparticipants wanted a little bit more than just the information we wouldgain. As I said from the outset, this is a trial (boy, is it!) to find out if goodcork is available for a decent price, and that patience is required. I'lllet you know when the picture gets a little clearer. Your forebearance isgreatly appreciated and, I heartily trust, will be rewarded. Davy from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon Nov 23 23:32:35 1998 Subject: Re: Inexpensive binder weights I use sinker weights of the kind sold in salt water fishing areas. Theyare marked as 2 oz., 4 0z., 6 oz., etc, so you can combine one or more toget the weight you want. I think 4 lb. is a bit heavy for most of thebinding that we do. ----------From: Grhghlndr@aol.com Subject: Inexpensive binder weightsDate: Monday, November 23, 1998 8:37 PM List,While looking for a good cheap and not to heavy anchor for my BucksBagpontoonboat I got the idea to use an old window weight. I went to the salvageyardand they had many different sizes to choose from, and guess what theyevenhave their weights stamped on them. I picked up a couple to use and Igot a 4pound one and a 2.5 pound one. The total cost per weight $1.00. Not tobadAY and with a hack saw you could make them any size you like. Theycomewitha nice convenient hole in the top to put a hook thru to hang off thepulley.Bret from chris@artistree.com Tue Nov 24 00:06:15 1998 [205.134.242.191] (may be forged)) Subject: Re: Holden's book back in print Harry,A old tattered copy of Garrison's book got me started in rod building. Iknow Garrison's book/methods sometimes aren't viewed favorably on thislist but there is something about the way his book is written that wasvery exciting to me as beginner. In Garrison's book you can sense thathe felt the same way about Holden's book when he started out. I found itinteresting to go back and read Holden's book and put myself inGarrison's shoes. Sure, Holden's methods are outdated and there isn'tmuch there that hasn't been vastly improved on over the last 75 yearsbut if you look beneath the surface you will see that some of the issueswe deal with today were just as much of an issue back then. I feel for$20 it's worth having just to help give a little more perspective onthis amazing craft.-- Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail:chris@artistree.com Harry Boyd wrote: Chris, et al How 'bout a little review of Dr. Holden's book? I've bought everybook on bamboo I can find, and lately have found some of them to berather repitious. I think I'm up to about a half a dozen books, orabout $250 worth. Don't get me wrong, each of them was worth the priceIpaid, but before I spend another $20 or so on a re-print of a book fromthe 1920's(??) maybe someone else could share the high and low points.I guess what I'm asking about is if there is more than an historicalinterest here.Thanks in advance,Harry Boyd from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Tue Nov 24 00:31:57 1998 (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Multi-tools I had considered them before I bought a used South Bend lathe. In my bookthe contenders in that category are:SmithyShoptaskGrizzly Of the three, the Shoptask looked the best to me (+ was a bit cheaper thanthe Smithy + could be converted to CNC control easily, but weighs 660 lb).Shoptask and Grizzly have websites, Smithy is featured by a few dealersontheir websites.The Grizzly is the cheapest ( Subject: Multi-tools Anyone out there have experience (opinions) with the mini-multi-tools?The lathe-mill-drillpress type. Smithy and Enco brands are all I'veseen. TIA. KC from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Tue Nov 24 00:40:40 1998 (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: collets Perhaps you can anneal them, ream them, then re-harden them??? George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: collets Usually, good collets are too hard to ream to the next highest Englishdimension. I'd put them in a rack and use them as is. You'll find many ofthem that are close to the English sizes.I sure wish all our dimensions were metric.John Z -----Original Message----- Subject: collets Dave, John, i have recently acquired a pile of collets, unfortunately they aremetric... is there a way to enlarge them..drill, ream, bore,etc.. ibelieve they are hardened..may be a tuffy. thanks jerry from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Tue Nov 24 00:47:27 1998 (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Holden's book back in print I received my copy today and have read some of it. I think any interest init would be primarily historical (I wouldn't buy it to learn to build bamboorods)...but you may pick up a few tips here and there (Holden advisesheating the bamboo strips just prior to gluing so that you are gluing warmbamboo...then advises that, though late, to wash your hands before going tobed). At least I have gotten some smiles out of the reading! Enjoy it!George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Holden's book back in print Chris, et al How 'bout a little review of Dr. Holden's book? I've bought everybook on bamboo I can find, and lately have found some of them to berather repitious. I think I'm up to about a half a dozen books, orabout $250 worth. Don't get me wrong, each of them was worth the priceIpaid, but before I spend another $20 or so on a re-print of a book fromthe 1920's(??) maybe someone else could share the high and low points.I guess what I'm asking about is if there is more than an historicalinterest here.Thanks in advance,Harry Boyd from saweiss@flash.net Tue Nov 24 00:57:59 1998 Subject: Re: collets Perhaps you can anneal them, ream them, then re-harden them??? Maybe, if you can control the warping and the oxides or scale that willformand if you know the temperatures to harden and anneal, and quench thattheparticular steel requires.Steve from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Tue Nov 24 01:02:13 1998 (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Holden's book back in print And (even more importantly, I think) an act to show publishers that thereISa market (albeit small) for books on this topic. But it DOES give one asense of history and that is one of the many charms of bamboo rods. George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Holden's book back in print I don't think that you'll find anything new in the book. Having read it, Ibelieve that buying it is purely an act of affection for the craft.John Z-----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 8:14 PMSubject: Re: Holden's book back in print Chris, et al How 'bout a little review of Dr. Holden's book? I've bought everybook on bamboo I can find, and lately have found some of them to berather repitious. I think I'm up to about a half a dozen books, orabout $250 worth. Don't get me wrong, each of them was worth the priceIpaid, but before I spend another $20 or so on a re-print of a book fromthe 1920's(??) maybe someone else could share the high and low points.I guess what I'm asking about is if there is more than an historicalinterest here.Thanks in advance,Harry Boyd from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Nov 24 06:42:32 1998 Subject: Re: Cork order update Davy,Who was this you were trying to get cork from?Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Nov 24 06:47:45 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Inexpensive binder weights The 4 pounder is the anchor for the boat, altho in The Lovely Reed it wassuggested to use a 4# wght for the initial tempering binding.Bret from sniderja@email.uc.edu Tue Nov 24 07:03:02 1998 Subject: Re: Cork order update Perhaps you could get a volume discount on champagne (sp?), throw away(drink) the waste product, and use the cork? ;>) If you find a good source,count me in.J. Snider.At 08:10 PM 11/23/98 -0800, you wrote:I have received a couple of queries as to the status of the cork order inwhich several list members had >participated. I hope the rest of themembership can bear with us as I explain myself to the sub-group. >Feelfree to punch- out now or listen in- your choice. The cork came a few days ago and I sent it back. It was crap. Well,perhaps not strictly "crap" but certainly not suitable for fine rodseither. I dumped out the rings and went through them to get an idea of theaverage quality, got more and more cheesed, then sent the supplier asrestrained an e-mail as I could manage. He quickly responded that hewasreally really sorry I wasn't satisfied and that he had gotten a "newsource" from which he was sure he could send me some superiorproduct.My suspicion is that he just thought he'd send me the crap and save thegood stuff until he found out if I was a complete rube. But I'm naturallysuspicious. I'm going along with him mostly because I might have had to do thesamewithanother dealer if I switched. A further reason is that recentinformation-since the order- seems to indicate >that the sort of cork I had in mindmaybe unavailable at our price. I don't knowif my concept of what we might receive for our money coincides withthenotions of others. We'll see. I spoke with the head guy at REC and he said they've got cork that isreally really really good. He also said it costs a buck-and-a-half per.Hespecifically named "bamboo rodmakers" as the intended market for thisgrade of cork, and he laughed at the suggestion of volume discounts. If the people they want to gouge simply refuse their price, what willtheydo? Idon't think Sage et. al. will pay anything like such prices, although someindividualsmay. And further, I think that would be irresponsible. I will make mygrips out of wood (out of >spite :-) or anothermaterial before I go along with that kind of nonsense. They probablyfigurethat we can >afford four or five bucks per ring, since we sell our rods for$1500.00 each. (Anybody catch my drift?) I'm seriously wondering whether this type of "buying club" might bewhatis needed to counter such >practices on the part of suppliers. I think itis a concept worth exploring. After discovering a good source, >we couldexercise a lot more economic power as a unified bloc than we ever couldas afragmented >gaggle of... individuals. Anyway, although I fully expected to have this done and the corkdistributedbefore now, I made the decision I felt was called for, and am sorry ifanyone has been inconvenienced. Then again, I really don't think anyonewould have been happy with the stuff that was shipped and I felt thatmostparticipants wanted a little bit more than just the information we wouldgain. As I said from the outset, this is a trial (boy, is it!) to find out if goodcork is available for a decent price, and that patience is required. I'lllet you know when the picture gets a little clearer. Your forebearance isgreatly appreciated and, I heartily trust, will be rewarded. Davy from channer@hubwest.com Tue Nov 24 07:42:49 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A84514B0144; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 06:44:37 MST Subject: Re: Speaking of Epon... At 03:37 PM 11/23/98 -0600, you wrote:List, I just finished gluing up another rod with Epon. I keep a rag soaked in vinegar handy for clean-up. This time, though, Iwrung out excess vinegar from the rag and wiped down the freshly boundblanks. I couldn't help myself. It seemed such a handy thing to do, toremove excess glue early. Now, I'm wondering what I have done. Will even the little bit ofvinegar on the rag foul up the cure? I wiped the blanks down with aclean rag after the vinegar rag. What will I find tomorrow when I easethe binding cord off the blanks? Any experience out there with this? How sensitive is the Epon to the vinegar? I know it cleans up thebinder like a champ! Thanks, Rick Crenshaw Rick;I have glued 6 rods with Epon and have wiped them all down, the last 2 Iwiped as they were coming out of the belt drive part of my binder. Notonlyhave I not had any problems with the glue curing or bonding well, but bydoing the wiping while the rod is spiralling thru the guides on the binder,they come out straighter. I found that I was putting curves in the sections side of the drive belt brackets and turn it and rinse it frequently. John from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Tue Nov 24 07:54:32 1998 Subject: collets Jerry, What about a tool post grinder? Could a Dremel Tool be riggedto the tool post to grind the I.D. to the size that you require? Thiswould work with hardened steel. It might be slow because you would haveto keep them cool so that you don't anneal the metal and loose it'stemper. The collet could turn one direction and the grinding wheel theother. A challenge! Just some thoughts Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Tue Nov 24 08:01:51 1998 (modemcable55.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.09.21.23.34)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, Subject: Binder tension BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_Y/ER5RszStod8oQY7Iy1/g)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_Y/ER5RszStod8oQY7Iy1/g) BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_HALMXN/9YTPkNclEYjavIQ)" --Boundary_(ID_HALMXN/9YTPkNclEYjavIQ) All this talk about weights for Garrison-type binders suggests thefollowingquestion: do you need to have that much tension applied to your blank? Ifso, do non-Garrison binders such as Millward's or Smithwick's, where thethread tensioner alone controls the tension, apply sufficient tension? Athread tensioner set to maximum applies only a fraction of the pressureyouget from hanging a one pound weight from a Garrison binder belt. I readthatPaul Young's rods were extremely well glued, in part because his binderwasbuilt from a bomb hoist capable of applying huge amounts of pressure. Ifso,do thread tensioner style binders produce inferior glued blanks or is thereduced pressure balanced with today's superior glues? One final question: someone wrote recently complaining that thedimensionsof his final glued blank are larger than the planed strips. Would the lackof strong tension in the binding process produce thicker glue lines? Thanks in advance Richard richard.nantel@videotron.ca --Boundary_(ID_HALMXN/9YTPkNclEYjavIQ) this talk about weights for Garrison-type binders suggests the following = question: do you need to have that much tension applied to your blank? = non-Garrison binders such as Millward's or Smithwick's, where the thread= tensioner alone controls the tension, apply sufficient tension? A thread = tensioner set to maximum applies only a fraction of the pressure you get = hanging a one pound weight from a Garrison binder belt. =I = Young's rods were extremely well glued, in part because his binder was = from a bomb hoist capable of applying huge amounts of pressure. If so, = tensioner style binders produce inferior glued blanks or is the reduced = balanced with today's superior glues? final question: someone wrote recently complaining that the dimensions = final glued blank are larger than the planed strips. Would the lack of = tension in the binding process produce thicker glue =lines? in advance Richard richard.nantel@videotron.ca --Boundary_(ID_HALMXN/9YTPkNclEYjavIQ)-- --Boundary_(ID_Y/ER5RszStod8oQY7Iy1/g) mail).vcf" BEGIN:VCARDVERSION:2.1N:Nantel;Richard;;;FN:Richard Nantel (E-mail)ORG:Le groupe MENTOR;TITLE:TEL;WORK;VOICE:(514) 393- 3292TEL;HOME;VOICE:(514) 485-2287TEL;PAGER;VOICE:[1] (514) 111- 1111TEL;WORK;FAX:(514) 393-1483ADR;WORK:;;4374 Old Orchard Avenue;Monteal;Quebec;H4A 3B4;CanadaLABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:4374 Old Orchard =Avenue=3D0D=3D0AMonteal, Quebec H4A 3B4=3D0D=3D0ACanadaADR;HOME:;;4374 Old Orchard Avenue;Monteal;Quebec;H4A 3B4;CanadaLABEL;HOME;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:4374 Old Orchard =Avenue=3D0D=3D0AMonteal, Quebec H4A 3B4=3D0D=3D0ACanadaEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:richard.nantel@videotron.caREV:19980514T133343ZEND:VCARD --Boundary_(ID_Y/ER5RszStod8oQY7Iy1/g)-- from ragnarig@integrityol.com Tue Nov 24 08:31:02 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A589152C010A; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 06:41:13 PDT Subject: Re: Cork order update Perhaps you could get a volume discount on champagne (sp?), throw away(drink) the waste product, and use the cork? ;>) If you find a good source,count me in.J. Snider. Well, It's not a job for which I'd volunteer but if needed, I will answerthe call! Send either cash or Champagne. Now, I'm assuming you only wantthe best cork, right? Hmmm... probably need older bottles. Always ready to help,Davy from FlyTyr@southshore.com Tue Nov 24 08:49:45 1998 (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP 08:50:55 -0600 Subject: Re: collets Just a suggestion,After 12 mm most sizes are the same as our sizes, when we needed to useaCollet for metric sizes and did not have it, most times we could wrapshimstock on the material being turned. You have to use the right thickness andbe sure that it does not overlap . The ends on the shim stock need to beflush with each other.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com dickfuhrman@rheemote.com wrote: Jerry, What about a tool post grinder? Could a Dremel Tool be riggedto the tool post to grind the I.D. to the size that you require? Thiswould work with hardened steel. It might be slow because you wouldhaveto keep them cool so that you don't anneal the metal and loose it'stemper. The collet could turn one direction and the grinding wheel theother. A challenge! Just some thoughts Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net from rmoon@ida.net Tue Nov 24 09:08:07 1998 Subject: Re: Holden's book back in print 1806AA792636712BA61A685B" --------------1806AA792636712BA61A685B If the list will pardon a short anecdote re: Holden's book. When I was Curator of the International Fly Fishing Center, a rod buildingfriend of mine approached me on the banks of the Henry's Fork and offeredme adonation of a book for the Center's Library. He handed me a copy of the of the Split Bamboo. I was well acquainted with the book since I had anunusual copy of my own. My copy showed the author's name on the cover ofthebook as Dixie Carrol (an obvious misprint.) I was about to return the booktomy friend with the comment "Thanks Bob, but the Library already has acopy.Perhaps you could donate this to another fly fishing museum so otherscouldenjoy it." Before I opened my mouth, I glanced at a written inscription onthe fly leaf. It read "To our good friend Everet Garrison from Harry andElsie Darbee." I kept my mouth closed and accepted the book. If you are ever inLivingstonask the Director for a look at it. Ralph --------------1806AA792636712BA61A685B If the list will pardon a short anecdote re: Holden's book. When I was Curator of the International Fly Fishing Center, a rodbuildingfriend of mine approached me on the banks of the Henry's Fork and offered showedthe author's name on the cover of the book as Dixie Carrol (an obvious comment Before I opened my mouth, I glanced at a written inscription on the fly Elsie Darbee." in Livingston ask the Director for a look at it. Ralph --------------1806AA792636712BA61A685B-- from LUU@NMDHST.CC.NIH.GOV Tue Nov 24 09:39:50 1998 Subject: glue for nodeless strips Hello everybody,Could you please advise me on the type of glue I need to use for nodelessrods?.Thanks.Andy from jonfun@univest.com Tue Nov 24 10:13:23 1998 0600 Subject: Block Plane OK.I decided to go for it! I'm going to build a bamboo rod. However, Withinone day of my decision I'm already frustrated. The most Important oftools(next to Wayne's book which I'm patiently waiting to arrive) seems tobe a Stanley 9.5 Block plane. One problem ... I CAN'T FIND ONE! I have tried10 Hardware stores in 3 Arkansas "Cities" and I can't find the darnedthing.Are all the tools going to be this hard to find? I like the "buy and takehome" approach as opposed to the "order and we'll tell you when it getshere" approach. Anyway is there a substitute or is 9.5 the ideal size? Jonathan Funk winmail.dat Name: winmail.datType: unspecified type (application/octet-stream)Encoding: x-uuencode from Ed.Estlow@co.hennepin.mn.us Tue Nov 24 10:37:58 1998 1998 16:37:13 UT v4.6.2 (651.2 6-10-1998)) Subject: Re: Block Plane Boundary="0__=22gdSWurra5leawc8SlE5DTC9JqNRo4ad9l0yvoduUSofvvkv2iCsAjG" --0__=22gdSWurra5leawc8SlE5DTC9JqNRo4ad9l0yvoduUSofvvkv2iCsAjG Alden Tools (Rodmakers page has a link) has them priced very reasonably - from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Nov 24 10:46:13 1998 via smap (4.1) 8:50:58 PST Subject: RE: Block Plane Jonathan, What you have found out is consistent with my search. I couldn't find one on the shelf and ended up ordering it through a local, large hardware store. It didn't take long to get and the price was reasonable. You'll probably have plenty of time to wait for delivery while your gatthering all of the other components and tools to make a rod. Be sure that thesalesman knows what you want since there is a least one other Stanley plane that is remarkably close in appearance and specs. The #9 1/2 was not labeled anywhere except the catalog. Getting the dial indicator with base and 60 degree tip was the most frustrating for me since there are so many variations of this tool. I ended up ordering through Munro Rod Company because I knew they hadwhat I needed and didn't have to be concerned with ordering the wrong part or tool. If you have a background in precision measuring equipment then this probably wouldn't be a big deal for you. Then there's the planing forms. Once you have these three tools you can make a rod. All of the other tools involved are available at typical hardware stores. It will probably take at least a year of buying tools and gadgets as you need them before you can actually say, "I can make a rod in my garage and I don't have to go to the hardware store first." Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from DarrellALee@compuserve.com Tue Nov 24 11:12:32 1998 Subject: Re: silk line ratings A couple of months ago, I came across a swap meet vendor that had boxesofnew silk line but I believe they were for bass or conventional reelfishing. Is this type of line suitable for flyfishing, not that I'll beable to find this vendor again, but just curious. from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Nov 24 11:46:38 1998 Subject: Re: Block Plane In a message dated 11/24/98 8:15:09 AM Pacific Standard Time,jonfun@univest.com writes: The most Important oftools(next to Wayne's book which I'm patiently waiting to arrive) seemstobe a Stanley 9.5 Block plane. One problem ... I CAN'T FIND ONE! One of your problems may be that Stanley doesn't sell it as a 9 1/2anymore. The same block plane is now sold as a G12-020. Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Nov 24 11:52:31 1998 Subject: Re: the right diameter In a message dated 11/23/98 5:52:20 PM Pacific Standard Time,FISHWOOL@aol.comwrites: When you measure the triangle x-section of a single strip (or spline)you may be crushing the apex of the strip slightly which will give you aslightly smaller reading than the actual reading ,then when you measurethefinished rod flat- to-flat the real reading comes out. Also there may besomeincrease in dimension from the glue but it shouldn't be much. This is absolutely correct, and another problem may be the way youzero your dial indicator. If you zero it by placing it on a flat surfaceyou probably aren't setting your forms correctly. Darryl from cphisey@neca.com Tue Nov 24 11:59:42 1998 Subject: Re: glue for nodeless strips At 11:40 PM 11/22/98 -0400, you wrote:Hello everybody,Could you please advise me on the type of glue I need to use for nodelessrods?.Thanks.Andy Andy;I use Titebond 11 for the splices and Epon epoxy for gluing up thesections.Works well,but I don't heat treat after gluing and binding the rod.Charlie from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Tue Nov 24 12:03:20 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id MAA15590 for; Tue, (8.8.4/8.6.8) with SMTP idMAA07338 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 12:03:04 Subject: Re: glue for nodeless strips Hopefully you will have some conflicting opinions on this :-) If you have time and lots of clamps, I would advise using the sametype of glue you plan to use to glue the finished strips. However,if you use a two part glue, like epoxy or Urac or Resorcinol, you willbe mixing several little batches; and if you use epoxy, you will haveto wait a couple days before you can remove the clamps and glue moresplices. These considerations make one-part, fast drying glues attractive. Your choice in one-part glues are Titebond II or equivalent, a water-resistant yellow woodworking glue, or a polyurethane glue. I think Chris Bogart on this list tested a poly glue and found the splice failed. He recommends Titebond II. I have not had this problem; I've made 4 nodeless rods with Gorilla brand poly glue and have not had one splice fail in testing or planing or fishing. Titebond also makes a strong joint but it will fail when heated, before the cane relaxes. Poly glue is much more heat resistant. I would be leery of trying to heat straighten a Titebond-spliced rod. My method of using the Gorilla poly glue is to plane the splice smooth(no filing or sanding), apply a thin film of glue to one surface witha toothpick and wet the other using my finger dipped in water. Thenthe strips are joined and clamped with 3 spring clamps. I leave the clamps on for ~4 hours and don't stress the joints for at least a day.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Sun, 22 Nov 1998, ANDREW LUU wrote: Hello everybody,Could you please advise me on the type of glue I need to use for nodelessrods?.Thanks.Andy from CALucker@aol.com Tue Nov 24 12:23:47 1998 Subject: Re: Binder tension In a message dated 11/24/98 6:05:24 AM Pacific Standard Time,richard.nantel@videotron.ca writes: I use a dual action binder with both discs facing the exit of the pipe (seemy plans in the Best of the Planing Form). I removed the extra tensionsystembecause I did not ned it. I get 1.25 pounds from each thread tension device-- the standard ones you buy from Angler's Workshop. Chris Lucker from bills@nwlink.com Tue Nov 24 12:26:20 1998 Subject: Re: the right diameter Darryl's comment regarding zeroing "spawned" yet another question.I have wondered about zeroing on a flat surface. I do not have acalibration tool for my depth gauge and have noticed a consistent bias of+.003 from final planing to post gluing diameter... obviously using twodifferent measuring devices; 60 deg. center point and dial caliper. Myprecision is great but accuracy is in question. How would you recommendzeroing the 60 deg. point and calibrating it to the caliper?Bill-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: the right diameter In a message dated 11/23/98 5:52:20 PM Pacific Standard Time,FISHWOOL@aol.comwrites:If you zero it by placing it on a flat surfaceyou probably aren't setting your forms correctly. Darryl from bills@nwlink.com Tue Nov 24 12:35:36 1998 Subject: Re: Block Plane Woodcraft lists both a Stanley 9.5 and a Record 9.5 in their catalog. Theyare a bit pricey at $52+. The Stanley G12-020 runs about $35 - $40 atEagleHardware or HomeDepot type stores.Contact Woodcraft at 800-535- 4482 for a catalog or their site iswww.woodcraft.com.Bill S.-----Original Message----- Subject: Block Plane OK.I decided to go for it! I'm going to build a bamboo rod. However, Withinone day of my decision I'm already frustrated. The most Important oftools(next to Wayne's book which I'm patiently waiting to arrive) seemstobe a Stanley 9.5 Block plane. One problem ... I CAN'T FIND ONE! I havetried10 Hardware stores in 3 Arkansas "Cities" and I can't find the darnedthing.Are all the tools going to be this hard to find? I like the "buy and takehome" approach as opposed to the "order and we'll tell you when it getshere" approach. Anyway is there a substitute or is 9.5 the ideal size? Jonathan Funk from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Tue Nov 24 12:43:53 1998 (5.5.2407.0) Subject: RE: Block Plane try William alden CO, they had the cheapest prices 1-800-249-8665 ----------From: Bill Strelke[SMTP:bills@nwlink.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 10:32 AM Subject: Re: Block Plane Woodcraft lists both a Stanley 9.5 and a Record 9.5 in their catalog. Theyare a bit pricey at $52+. The Stanley G12-020 runs about $35 - $40 atEagleHardware or HomeDepot type stores.Contact Woodcraft at 800-535- 4482 for a catalog or their site iswww.woodcraft.com.Bill S.-----Original Message-----From: Jonathan Funk Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 8:15 AMSubject: Block Plane OK.I decided to go for it! I'm going to build a bamboo rod. However,Withinone day of my decision I'm already frustrated. The most Important oftools(next to Wayne's book which I'm patiently waiting to arrive) seemstobe a Stanley 9.5 Block plane. One problem ... I CAN'T FIND ONE! I havetried10 Hardware stores in 3 Arkansas "Cities" and I can't find the darnedthing.Are all the tools going to be this hard to find? I like the "buy and takehome" approach as opposed to the "order and we'll tell you when it getshere" approach. Anyway is there a substitute or is 9.5 the ideal size? Jonathan Funk from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Nov 24 13:19:39 1998 Subject: Re: Binder tension In a message dated 11/24/98 2:05:24 PM, you wrote: Richard - I am willing to concede that the drive belt binder puts morepressure on the blank initially, but you are still dealing with the breakingstrength of thread to hold the pressure. I have hand wrapped several rodsandnever had a problem, also, the thread only binder is nothing new and hasstoodthe test of time. Look at page 190 of Martin Keane's book and you will seeWinston's version. I have no problem with those who prefer the GarrisonBinder, my goal was only to build a simple binder that worked.Paul Young rods do appear to be well glued, but I doubt the bomb hoist hadanything to do with it. Remember John Bokstrom's warning that the firsttoolof a rodmaker should be a shovel for all the BS. They may have made thebinder from a 20,000 lb bomb hoist, but where did they get the 20,000 lb testthread? from rclarke@eou.edu Tue Nov 24 13:34:07 1998 Subject: Re: Binder tension Tom, I agree. I can easily break the thread I use on my binder based onyour configuration. BTW, thanks for the nice design! Robert Clarke ----------From: TSmithwick@aol.com Subject: Re: Binder tensionDate: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 11:19 AM In a message dated 11/24/98 2:05:24 PM, you wrote: built from a bomb hoist capable of applying huge amounts of pressure. >> Richard - I am willing to concede that the drive belt binder puts morepressure on the blank initially, but you are still dealing with thebreakingstrength of thread to hold the pressure. I have hand wrapped several rodsandnever had a problem, also, the thread only binder is nothing new and hasstoodthe test of time. Look at page 190 of Martin Keane's book and you willseeWinston's version. I have no problem with those who prefer the GarrisonBinder, my goal was only to build a simple binder that worked.Paul Young rods do appear to be well glued, but I doubt the bomb hoisthadanything to do with it. Remember John Bokstrom's warning that the firsttoolof a rodmaker should be a shovel for all the BS. They may have made thebinder from a 20,000 lb bomb hoist, but where did they get the 20,000 lb testthread? from LUU@NMDHST.CC.NIH.GOV Tue Nov 24 13:34:58 1998 Subject: Re: Binder tension Helleo Mr. Smithwick,Could you please give me a little description on how to handwrapped therod?. Thank you for your help.Andy In a message dated 11/24/98 2:05:24 PM, you wrote: built from a bomb hoist capable of applying huge amounts of pressure. >> Richard - I am willing to concede that the drive belt binder puts morepressure on the blank initially, but you are still dealing with the breakingstrength of thread to hold the pressure. I have hand wrapped several rodsandnever had a problem, also, the thread only binder is nothing new and hasstoodthe test of time. Look at page 190 of Martin Keane's book and you will seeWinston's version. I have no problem with those who prefer the GarrisonBinder, my goal was only to build a simple binder that worked.Paul Young rods do appear to be well glued, but I doubt the bomb hoist hadanything to do with it. Remember John Bokstrom's warning that the firsttoolof a rodmaker should be a shovel for all the BS. They may have made thebinder from a 20,000 lb bomb hoist, but where did they get the 20,000 lb testthread? from sniderja@email.uc.edu Tue Nov 24 13:58:05 1998 Subject: Re: Binder tension Well spoken, Tom. I have used your binder (just love its simplicity!), theGarrison type binder (great fun to play around with and to show off with,but am scared every time I use it, even with Chris Bogart's excellent finetuning techniques), and hand binding. I feel comfortable with all three.Geez, folks, we're only glueing sticks together here under a (hopefully)constant force long enough for the glue to dry? Educate me here-- I'm stillyoung enough to accept new ideas, arguements, etc.J. Snider At 02:19 PM 11/24/98 EST, you wrote: In a message dated 11/24/98 2:05:24 PM, you wrote: built from a bomb hoist capable of applying huge amounts of pressure. >> Richard - I am willing to concede that the drive belt binder puts morepressure on the blank initially, but you are still dealing with the breakingstrength of thread to hold the pressure. I have hand wrapped several rodsandnever had a problem, also, the thread only binder is nothing new and hasstoodthe test of time. Look at page 190 of Martin Keane's book and you will seeWinston's version. I have no problem with those who prefer the GarrisonBinder, my goal was only to build a simple binder that worked.Paul Young rods do appear to be well glued, but I doubt the bomb hoist hadanything to do with it. Remember John Bokstrom's warning that the firsttoolof a rodmaker should be a shovel for all the BS. They may have made thebinder from a 20,000 lb bomb hoist, but where did they get the 20,000 lb testthread? from saweiss@flash.net Tue Nov 24 14:32:03 1998 Subject: Re: Binder tension built from a bomb hoist capable of applying huge amounts of pressure. >> Richard - I am willing to concede that the drive belt binder puts morepressure on the blank initially, but you are still dealing with thebreakingstrength of thread to hold the pressure. I have hand wrapped several rodsandnever had a problem, also, the thread only binder is nothing new and hasstoodthe test of time. Look at page 190 of Martin Keane's book and you will seeWinston's version. I have no problem with those who prefer the GarrisonBinder, my goal was only to build a simple binder that worked.Paul Young rods do appear to be well glued, but I doubt the bomb hoist hadanything to do with it. Remember John Bokstrom's warning that the firsttoolof a rodmaker should be a shovel for all the BS. They may have made thebinder from a 20,000 lb bomb hoist, but where did they get the 20,000 lb testthread? Hey,Now I know what to do with my bomb hoist when I'm not loading bombs!Steve from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Nov 24 14:52:13 1998 Subject: Re: Binder tension In a message dated 11/24/98 7:41:20 PM, you wrote: I used a method similar to that described by Darryl the other day, except,ofcourse, I would never use anything so crass as a spinning reel. I wound thethread on an old Penn saltwater casting reel, set the drag for a fewpounds,and clamped it to my bench. The glued and taped blank is held in thefingers,and the thread is attached to the butt of the section. The blank is thenturned and the thread is wound on using the drag as tension. The reel isclamped to the center of the bench and a couple paint cans or some suchareplaced on my right and left to keep the end of the blank from rolling offthebench. A second layer of thread is counter wrapped, as usual. You will havemore straightening to do than with a mechanical binder, but nothing tooonerous. from johanyga@online.no Tue Nov 24 14:57:57 1998 (MET) Subject: test test from jonfun@univest.com Tue Nov 24 15:02:31 1998 0600 Subject: RE: test Well, I got itJonathan FunkSoftware EngineerUnivest Financial Group LLC -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 2:56 PM Subject: test test winmail.dat Name: winmail.datType: unspecified type (application/octet-stream)Encoding: x-uuencode from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Tue Nov 24 15:06:19 1998 0600 Subject: Re: Block Plane Jonathan,Larger Lowe's stores carry the G12-020 for less than $30, the bestprice I've run across.If thatdoesn't suit you, try Jon Lintvet's Munro Rod Co. page at http://www.munrorodco.com/ Heoften carries afew used Stanley 9.5's. I think the old tools are, as a rule, better than thenew ones. Theyrun about$35. You'll have to order a good blade for either tool, so go ahead andorder that. Maybe bothwill be inabout the same time. And practice sharpening. Then practice some more. Then some more. etc.,etc., etc.All IMHOHappy Thanksgiving,Harry Boyd Jonathan Funk wrote:snippedyouwhen it getshere" approach. Anyway is there a substitute or is 9.5 the ideal size? Jonathan Funk from rcurry@top.monad.net Tue Nov 24 15:25:15 1998 Subject: Nylon line weighting All,I have accumulated some oiled Nylon tapered fly lines. Unfortunately,while they have the correct diameters, the specific gravity is 25% lessthan oiled silk; so I don't get full advantage of the decreaseddiameter/weight ratio.I am considering restoring the lines with the usual Tung oil/varnishthat I use, with the addition of some metallic dust to add weight. Doesanyone have any recommendations? I was thinking of using filings fromlead-free solder (tin/antimony). Are there any oil-basedpaints/varnishes that would add weight?Best regards,Reed from LUU@NMDHST.CC.NIH.GOV Tue Nov 24 15:27:46 1998 Subject: Re: Binder tension THANK YOUANDY In a message dated 11/24/98 7:41:20 PM, you wrote: rod?>> I used a method similar to that described by Darryl the other day, except,ofcourse, I would never use anything so crass as a spinning reel. I woundthethread on an old Penn saltwater casting reel, set the drag for a fewpounds,and clamped it to my bench. The glued and taped blank is held in thefingers,and the thread is attached to the butt of the section. The blank is thenturned and the thread is wound on using the drag as tension. The reel isclamped to the center of the bench and a couple paint cans or some suchareplaced on my right and left to keep the end of the blank from rolling offthebench. A second layer of thread is counter wrapped, as usual. You willhavemore straightening to do than with a mechanical binder, but nothing tooonerous. from cphisey@neca.com Tue Nov 24 17:01:17 1998 Subject: Re: glue for nodeless strips At 12:03 PM 11/24/98 -0600, you wrote: I have not had this problem; I've made 4 nodeless rods with Gorilla brand poly glue and have not had one splice fail in testing or planing or fishing. Titebond also makes a strong joint but it will fail when heated, before the cane relaxes. Poly glue is much more heat resistant. I would be leery of trying to heat straighten a Titebond-spliced rod. Frank Stetzer Though I've only built one nodeless(3/2 8')so far,I had no problems heatstraighten the sections with a heat gun(and I tend to be a bit heavy handedwith the heat)using the Titebond II and Epon.No runs,No splits,No errors.Idon't heat set the Epon ,so I don't know how the Titebond II would stand upto prolonged heat treating-something to consider if you heat set yourepoxy.Charlie Hisey from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 24 18:26:01 1998 ix14.ix.netcom.com via smap(V1.3) Subject: Re: glue for nodeless strips Andy, I use Titebond II for the splices and Shell Epon for gluing thestrips together. Works great and I have had no problems so far. I do heattreat after gluing. I do rebind the rod and heat treat with the binding on. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 11:40 PM 11/22/98 -0400, you wrote:Hello everybody,Could you please advise me on the type of glue I need to use for nodelessrods?.Thanks.Andy from lblan@provide.net Tue Nov 24 18:55:19 1998 Subject: RE: Nylon line weighting Reed; several things come to mind, how about powdered aluminum?It has a few things going for it...1 - Not as hazardous as trying to atomize lead.2 - I can't help but wonder if lead or a lead / antimony mix might be toodense.3 - I have some I'd be happy to send. -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 4:29 PM Subject: Nylon line weighting All,I have accumulated some oiled Nylon tapered fly lines.Unfortunately,while they have the correct diameters, the specific gravity is 25% lessthan oiled silk; so I don't get full advantage of the decreaseddiameter/weight ratio.I am considering restoring the lines with the usual Tung oil/varnishthat I use, with the addition of some metallic dust to add weight. Doesanyone have any recommendations? I was thinking of using filings fromlead-free solder (tin/antimony). Are there any oil-basedpaints/varnishes that would add weight?Best regards,Reed from Canerods@aol.com Tue Nov 24 19:16:17 1998 Subject: Re: oven thermostats In a message dated 11/23/98 5:02:43 AM Pacific Standard Time,anglport@con2.com writes: About your suggestion to use a GFI on the oven circuit. I just got a tablesaw from my brother. It worked at his house but when I got it home itwouldn't work at mine. Turned out the GFI that I was plugging it intowastripping each time the motor started. Could that happen with an oven?Theycertainly draw enough current. (Or is my GFI damaged?) This is notsomething I plan to do with my 220v oven. Don't have a 220v GFI in thehouse...don't even know if you can get them, (or maybe you put one oneachleg of the circuit?)!Thanks,Art Art, I would guess that the motor has some leakage to ground via in thewindings. I'm not sure about 220v GFI myself. Check at Home Depot. I could see an amateur rodmaker/electician "frying" him/herself withhis/hernewly completed all-metal tubing cane oven - that's why the reply to thispost. Don Burns from MICK@welfen-netz.com Tue Nov 24 20:09:46 1998 [195.143.56.1] with SMTP(MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Wed, 25 Nov1998 03:08:44 +0100 Subject: fishing trip in Russia Hi Rodmakersthis is'nt about rodbuilding but I've got to warn anybody who might beplaning a fishing trip to Russia like Nystrom did:the russian part of Kola peninsula is radioactive contaminated bynuclear test in the past and Tschernobyl as well. Anyone who was stayingin this area for six days should go under medical treatment asap.take careMichael from jczimny@dol.net Tue Nov 24 20:18:36 1998 Subject: Re: Lathe Tool Post & Holders The Home Shop MachinistVillage Communications2779 Aero Park DriveTraverse City MI 49684(800) 632-0966You'll like it.John Z-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Lathe Tool Post & Holders Tom,I'd like seriously at the company that sells them through the "Home ShopMachinist". I use one and it is a very good value.John Z John,Do you have an address, phone # or e-mail address for "Home ShopMachinist"?Steve from Canerods@aol.com Tue Nov 24 20:26:29 1998 Subject: Cane seam repair? All, I acquired a 9' Heddon #8 2-3/4F project rod recently and it had aoverwrap onone tip. I removed the overwrap and found a bad area on one strip near a node. Itlookslike the node MIGHT have split at one time and a fiber stuck up andsomehowgot broken off. So there's a gap of about 3/4" x 1/64th" where the fiber iscompletely missing. How would you repair? My ideas: (not in order) 1) Using a scrap cane piece - remove a fiber and glue in place with PUglue.Sand. 2) Fill with epoxy and sand smooth. 3) Fill with PU glue and sand smooth. I'm open to ideas. Of course, the area will be rewrapped with an overwraptoo. Thanks, Don Burns from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Nov 24 20:30:02 1998 Wed, 25 Nov 1998 10:29:09 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: oven thermostats On Tue, 24 Nov 1998 Canerods@aol.com wrote:Art, I would guess that the motor has some leakage to ground via in thewindings. I'm not sure about 220v GFI myself. Check at Home Depot. I could see an amateur rodmaker/electician "frying" him/herself withhis/hernewly completed all-metal tubing cane oven - that's why the reply tothispost. Don Burns Having survived one or two various death defing situations including just stepping out of the room when a gunsmith I worked for while in high school was making FFFF blackpowder out of F because the dangerous goods ship was late arriving with the powder when he blew himself and half the shop into the street, and while reassembling a PC power supply I answered a phone and then screwed the wrong length screw in, swithched on the machine and KABOOM when the screw I'd inserted had in fact penetrated a capacitor. All I got was a blackend arm and a silly look on my face. When I asked what's inside a capacitor to cause that funny smell I was told "electricity, mainly" . I'd be bloody careful out there. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Nov 24 20:33:07 1998 Wed, 25 Nov 1998 10:32:50 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: fishing trip in Russia On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=FCller?= wrote: Hi Rodmakersthis is'nt about rodbuilding but I've got to warn anybody who might beplaning a fishing trip to Russia like Nystrom did:the russian part of Kola peninsula is radioactive contaminated bynuclear test in the past and Tschernobyl as well. Anyone who wasstayingin this area for six days should go under medical treatment asap.take careMichael I know of quite a few horror stories from Russia including fishing and climbing ones. All of them drive home the fact that although the Russians understand money, they have a lot of trouble with service. Considering they can't even design a decent paper bag it really is a case of buyer beware. They can drink though. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from sats@gte.net Tue Nov 24 21:14:44 1998 Subject: Re: Question Joe is correct, A&F carried some of the Best of the Best. Rods by Payne,Halstead, Edwards. Reels by Bogden, Hardy, Julius Von Hoff, Talbot.Original art, prints, guns, planning a safari, etc. Went out of business inthe 70's. How I missed this store that was located on 7 or 8 floors inmid- town Manhattan. You had to be at their GOING OUT OF BUSINESSSALE,incredible! Don't ever remember them selling Leonard rods though. Thename is still used today, it is however NOT THE SAME STORE! You got that right! Not a fishing object in sight. Unless you consider agolfshirt with a jumping fish fishing tackle. I made a special trip to the city, just to find the store, only to find it hadchanged. As the smart ass salesman said, "The A&F of the nineties." Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Tue Nov 24 21:47:18 1998 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id QAA28875 for ;Wed, 25 Nov 1998 16:47:22+1300 Subject: Noris rod I was offered a rod today which I had not heard of . The rod is a "Noris1670" and also has the name "Habil" on it . The guy who owns it said hisfather bought it in South Africa in the 1950's . It is in unused condition.It has very few intermediates , which makes me think it could be from theUSA . The reel is a JW Young from England so it could be a lessor known Britishmaker but in the mid fifties the british rods still tended to have moreintermediate bindings . The rod is in mint condition but has nodes which seem to be random ,bridgedline guides, and nickle reel seat. If anyone has heard of this maker could they kindly let me know. Thanks iank from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Nov 24 22:19:26 1998 Subject: Re: All you nodeless types At 18:51 23/11/98 -0500, you wrote:Max / Don You guys scare me - the truth lies in the casting not the breaking. Chris On Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:58:43 +0900, Max Satoh wrote: Chris, Ya - but what if the nodes are 30% stronger than the internodal areas. Justthink of the slim/sleek cane pole you could build them. You could even dyeit black and it would rival them graphite things. Just gotta figure out away to make a be-zillion splices all 2" long. Don from lblan@provide.net Tue Nov 24 22:23:04 1998 Subject: RE: oven thermostats Ahh... a violation of the primary rule. You let the smoke out! Never, everlet the smoke out of an electrical component. Not being an electrician, I'mnot sure what causes the phenomenon, but *every* time I have succeededinletting the smoke out of a component or wire, bad things have happened! :)) When I asked what's inside a capacitor to cause thatfunny smell I was told "electricity, mainly" . I'd be bloody careful out there. Tony from Canerods@aol.com Tue Nov 24 23:03:20 1998 Subject: Re: oven thermostats In a message dated 11/24/98 6:33:55 PM Pacific Standard Time,tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au writes: Having survived one or two various death defing situations including just stepping out of the room when a gunsmith I worked for while in high school was making FFFF blackpowder out of F because the dangerousgoods ship was late arriving with the powder when he blew himself and halfthe shop into the street, and while reassembling a PC power supply I answered a phone and then screwed the wrong length screw in, swithched on the machine and KABOOM when the screw I'd inserted hadin fact penetrated a capacitor. All I got was a blackend arm and a silly look on my face. When I asked what's inside a capacitor to cause that funny smell I was told "electricity, mainly" . I'd be bloody careful out there. Tony Tony, I've worked with electricity since about the age of 10. (started with trainsets) I remember several "shocking" experiences including holding onto thesparkplug of a go-kart when I missed the metal plate that was used toshortthe plug to ground so one could stop the direct drive beast. One revolution - zap, 2 revolutions zap.......... Can you say "sumabitch!"boys and girls? But hey, I still have my thumbs - an aussie electronic tech. in the US Navy(don't ask!) managed to almost remove his when he grabbed a 10KVDCgazillionamp power supply to the ship's radar. He also learned to fly at the sametime. I also have a "gun" story. I had my head inside a live 440vac electricalpanelat a shotgun shell plant when they decide it was time to test a few shellsonthe other size of a thin concrete block wall about 2" from where I wasworking. I damn near ripped the throats out of the SOB's after I recovered from the massive shit-your-pants/out-of-body experience that I wentthrough. Oh yes, I can't forget the "holding the 600 watt soldering iron at the wrongend' story, but that'll have to be at a later date off list, IMHO. Don Burns PS - just wire your oven thermostat across both sides of the 115vac andyoutoo can be writing about your next electrical "learning" experience. from jfoster@gte.net Tue Nov 24 23:04:17 1998 Subject: silk mac-creator="4D4F5353" Reed how about moly gear lube jer from jfoster@gte.net Tue Nov 24 23:08:18 1998 Subject: archives mac-creator="4D4F5353" ok, i finally got a primative version of the archives running.. some ofit isn't complete but for those of you interested in the archives (RMA)they are up to date.. this may or may not be the final solution.. http://www2.crosswinds.net/sacramento/~jfoster/rodmakers/ jer from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Tue Nov 24 23:08:24 1998 (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Question One of my favorite stories was my first trip to A&F in Troy, MI in theearly1970's when I first became interested in bamboo fly rods. I was ateenagerand quite excited at the prospect of seeing (and maybe even handling) rods from H.L. Leonard, Jim Payne, Pezon et Michel, etc., etc., etc. The storewas about a 50 mile drive from home and when I got there I had to pass byrows of Holland & Holland shotguns with very elaborate engraving (thatsold store. When I reached the right section I was surprised to seeABSOLUTELYNO BAMBOO RODS AT ALL!!! After searching all over for a bit, I inquired asto where to find them. I was told that each A&F store got their YEAR'Sallotment all at once, in one shipment and that their allotment had comeinthe Saturday prior to my visit. After some prodding as to WHERE all therods had gone, I got the sad story. The trucker delivering the rods hadunloaded them and propped them up against the back of his delivery truckwhile getting a signature for them. Then, forgetting that they were there,he got into his truck and BACKED OVER THE ENTIRE YEAR'S ALLOTMENT!!! Iwouldn't have wanted HIS next performance evaluation! George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Question Joe is correct, A&F carried some of the Best of the Best. Rods by Payne,Halstead, Edwards. Reels by Bogden, Hardy, Julius Von Hoff, Talbot.Original art, prints, guns, planning a safari, etc. Went out of businessinthe 70's. How I missed this store that was located on 7 or 8 floors inmid-town Manhattan. You had to be at their GOING OUT OF BUSINESSSALE,incredible! Don't ever remember them selling Leonard rods though. Thename is still used today, it is however NOT THE SAME STORE! You got that right! Not a fishing object in sight. Unless you consider agolfshirt with a jumping fish fishing tackle. I made a special trip to the city, just to find the store, only to find ithadchanged. As the smart ass salesman said, "The A&F of the nineties." Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Tue Nov 24 23:13:05 1998 (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: oven thermostats Who told??? I thought it was an electrical engineering secret that IC's andsemiconductors work via smoke (electrons and holes are just what we tellthegullible). Once an electronic component loses its smoke, it won't work! George Bourke -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: oven thermostats Ahh... a violation of the primary rule. You let the smoke out! Never, everlet the smoke out of an electrical component. Not being an electrician,I'mnot sure what causes the phenomenon, but *every* time I have succeededinletting the smoke out of a component or wire, bad things have happened!:)) When I asked what's inside a capacitor to cause thatfunny smell I was told "electricity, mainly" . I'd be bloody careful out there. Tony from bills@nwlink.com Tue Nov 24 23:52:27 1998 Subject: Re: fishing trip in Russia Fen Montaigne's book "Reeling in Russia" paints a terrible picture of thefishing opportunity in Russia. If his depiction is anywhere near correctmost of the fisheries have been poached or environmentally abused. Sadtaleif it is in fact accurate.Bill S.-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: fishing trip in Russia On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=FCller?= wrote: Hi Rodmakersthis is'nt about rodbuilding but I've got to warn anybody who might beplaning a fishing trip to Russia like Nystrom did:the russian part of Kola peninsula is radioactive contaminated bynuclear test in the past and Tschernobyl as well. Anyone who wasstayingin this area for six days should go under medical treatment asap.take careMichael I know of quite a few horror stories from Russia including fishing andclimbing ones. All of them drive home the fact that although the Russiansunderstand money, they have a lot of trouble with service. Consideringthey can't even design a decent paper bag it really is a case of buyerbeware. They can drink though. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Nov 25 05:23:14 1998 Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:22:49 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: All you nodeless types Piece of cake. Mince the whole lot up, mix epoxy with it and extrude the whole stinking mess into something like a hex shaped plastic rod. Call it monohex or some other catchy meaningless name like that. Just in time for Christmas too. Tony On Tue, 24 Nov 1998, Don Andersen wrote: At 18:51 23/11/98 -0500, you wrote:Max / Don You guys scare me - the truth lies in the casting not the breaking. Chris On Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:58:43 +0900, Max Satoh wrote: Chris, Ya - but what if the nodes are 30% stronger than the internodal areas.Justthink of the slim/sleek cane pole you could build them. You could evendyeit black and it would rival them graphite things. Just gotta figure out away to make a be-zillion splices all 2" long. Don /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Nov 25 06:26:20 1998 Subject: Re: Re: oven thermostats Since I am not an electrician I paid one on the job $10.00 to do this for me.Unless I could have seen one done I thought that was the best thing to do.The mica strip heater costs to much to burn up by faulty wiring. If youknowsomeone who is an electrician spend the bucks.Bret from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Nov 25 07:34:27 1998 Subject: Re: All you nodeless types Don Are you begging for a "Node" bomb to be sent to you? Chris On Tue, 24 Nov 1998 21:57:52, Don Andersen wrote: At 18:51 23/11/98 -0500, you wrote:Max / Don You guys scare me - the truth lies in the casting not the breaking. Chris On Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:58:43 +0900, Max Satoh wrote: Chris, Ya - but what if the nodes are 30% stronger than the internodal areas.Justthink of the slim/sleek cane pole you could build them. You could even dyeit black and it would rival them graphite things. Just gotta figure out away to make a be-zillion splices all 2" long. Don from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Wed Nov 25 07:50:15 1998 Subject: Re: All you nodeless types At 08:34 25/11/98 -0500, you wrote:Don Are you begging for a "Node" bomb to be sent to you? Chris Chris, Ya send it - taper those little suckers first though. And send me some gluetoo. I just gotta build one of those all-noded rods. No crusies allowed - Loomis or UPS is just fine. regards, Don from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Nov 25 08:11:26 1998 Subject: Re: All you nodeless types Don Ya got it - Sometime when you least expect it a small brownpaper wrapped box will appear on your doorstep. Chris On Wed, 25 Nov 1998 07:30:59, Don Andersen wrote: At 08:34 25/11/98 -0500, you wrote:Don Are you begging for a "Node" bomb to be sent to you? Chris Chris, Ya send it - taper those little suckers first though. And send me somegluetoo. I just gotta build one of those all-noded rods. No crusies allowed -Loomis or UPS is just fine. regards, Don from harry37@epix.net Wed Nov 25 08:12:50 1998 SMTP id JAA09671 Subject: Re: fishing trip in Russia Michael Mèller wrote: Hi Rodmakersthis is'nt about rodbuilding but I've got to warn anybody who might beplaning a fishing trip to Russia like Nystrom did:the russian part of Kola peninsula is radioactive contaminated bynuclear test in the past and Tschernobyl as well. Anyone who wasstayingin this area for six days should go under medical treatment asap.take careMichael Michael--- Probably the best you can do is make arrangements to obtain a filmmonitoring badge like a radiology department in a hospital would have and received no exposures higher than normal background radiation,mainly from x-ray exposure from the altitude of the plane I traveled into get there. My areas visited included Murmansk and Umba. You raise agood point, since there was a lot of off-shore testing in Franz JosefLand--the island chain north of the north shore, occurred in the heightof the cold war. That's not the Kola, though-- check your maps. My friends in the area say the only detonations in the past 30 years onland were around Kirovsk, where they were trying an underground devicein a mining experiment. The Polyarni Zori Nuclear Plant, though, is thesame design as Chernobyl, and seems to be an accident waiting tohappen. If there is ever a problem with the plant, it will create somereal problems. The international NRC is trying to shut it down. Toobad it's upwind from some good fishing. To get additional information, a website called Kola EcoGeoChemistry wasset up; I don't have the website, but it can be searched to find it. Chernobyl was 2000 KM to the south and the prevailing winds go west toeast. There was no contamination from Chernobyl contrary to whatGreenpeace might want to make you think. Sorry for the bandwidth, it has nothing to do with rodbuilding, but yourconcerns have no basis in fact. Greg from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Wed Nov 25 08:24:39 1998 ix16.ix.netcom.com via smap(V1.3) Subject: RE: oven thermostats Actually, it's from letting the cold out. You can tell this from theaccompaning increase in temperature. The smell and smoke is from thespinning of little electrical wheels as the cold drives off on their quarkpowered electron motorcycles. Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 11:22 PM 11/24/98 -0500, you wrote:Ahh... a violation of the primary rule. You let the smoke out! Never, everlet the smoke out of an electrical component. Not being an electrician,I'mnot sure what causes the phenomenon, but *every* time I have succeededinletting the smoke out of a component or wire, bad things have happened!:)) When I asked what's inside a capacitor to cause thatfunny smell I was told "electricity, mainly" . I'd be bloody careful out there. Tony from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Nov 25 08:55:07 1998 0600 Subject: Re: archives Jerry,Looks great. Thanks for all your hard work. If there are ways any ofus can help you, like editing messages to which we reply, just let us know! Harry Boyd Jerry Foster wrote: ok, i finally got a primative version of the archives running.. some ofit isn't complete but for those of you interested in the archives (RMA)they are up to date.. this may or may not be the final solution.. http://www2.crosswinds.net/sacramento/~jfoster/rodmakers/ jer from rcurry@top.monad.net Wed Nov 25 09:25:41 1998 Subject: Re: silk Jerry Foster wrote: Reed how about moly gear lube jer Jerry,Thanks for the suggestion, now some questions.What is moly gear lube when it's at home? I assume molybdenum, butwhatis the carrier? (Will it ever dry?) How often should I change the oil?Must I put my fly reels on a lift?And what is a furled leader? Curiouser and curiouser...Best regards,Reed from rcurry@top.monad.net Wed Nov 25 09:43:47 1998 Subject: Re: silk line ratings Darrell A Lee wrote: A couple of months ago, I came across a swap meet vendor that hadboxes ofnew silk line but I believe they were for bass or conventional reelfishing. Is this type of line suitable for flyfishing, not that I'll beable to find this vendor again, but just curious.Darrell,If the line was thin as thread, white, level and came on 2" or lessdiameter spools; it was silk bait-casting line.You might use this as backing on your fly line, but I would recommendagainst it, as it is very susceptible to rot and must be dried aftereach use.Best regards,ReedP.S. - However, if they were forward taper silk flylines, hunt the mandown like a dirty dog... and get them. from jfoster@gte.net Wed Nov 25 10:53:50 1998 Subject: Re: silk mac-creator="4D4F5353" Reed I read about furled leaders in "Micropatterns" by Darrel Martin.. lookslike a way to to make your own tapered leaders out of strands of alsmostany kind of material, he suggests that they carry the power of the castto the fly better than mono but the fly always lands softer than agnat.. my words..i use white lithium on my reels..might work also (never dries) regards jerry from TroutMagic@aol.com Wed Nov 25 13:04:03 1998 Subject: Re: silk In a message dated 11/25/98 10:30:36 AM Eastern Standard Time,rcurry@top.monad.net writes: Reed, Here is a www sight that will give you some info on these leaders. Thereis aDanish sight that has a description of how to make them. The book MicroPatterns also has instructions for making them. http://www.mulligansfinest.com/ AlAs always - no affiliation with this sight, just trying to pass alongsomething I found on the web. from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Nov 25 13:38:37 1998 (modemcable55.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.09.21.23.34)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, Subject: RE: silk Hi Al, Would you know the URL for that Danish site? I wasn't able to find it usingany search engines. Richard -----Original Message----- TroutMagic@aol.com Subject: Re: silk In a message dated 11/25/98 10:30:36 AM Eastern Standard Time,rcurry@top.monad.net writes: Reed, Here is a www sight that will give you some info on these leaders. ThereisaDanish sight that has a description of how to make them. The book MicroPatterns also has instructions for making them. http://www.mulligansfinest.com/ AlAs always - no affiliation with this sight, just trying to pass alongsomething I found on the web. from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Nov 25 13:44:42 1998 via smap (4.1) 11:44:22 PST Subject: Thanksgiving Alright guys and gals, no working on flyrods tommorrow. You can talkabout them if an inlaw brings up the subject first, but there will be no capitalizing on the conversation. Help with the cooking, play with the kids, and stay out of the shop/garage. If that UPS driver arrives todaywith the components you've been waiting for, then you tell him to comeback on Friday. Bamboo book reading and lawn casting is allowed in moderation, but only after the rest of the group is drugged into complacency by the effects of too much turkey. from gwbarnes@gwi.net Wed Nov 25 15:46:48 1998 Subject: Re: All you nodeless types Chris: If you're short of nodes I could contribute some. The nasty things arereallycluttering up the shop. George cbogart wrote: Don Ya got it - Sometime when you least expect it a small brownpaper wrapped box will appear on your doorstep. Chris On Wed, 25 Nov 1998 07:30:59, Don Andersen wrote: At 08:34 25/11/98 -0500, you wrote:Don Are you begging for a "Node" bomb to be sent to you? Chris Chris, Ya send it - taper those little suckers first though. And send me somegluetoo. I just gotta build one of those all-noded rods. No crusies allowed -Loomis or UPS is just fine. regards, Don from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Nov 25 16:31:44 1998 Subject: Re: Cane seam repair? Don - I would file a smooth shallow depression into the area. Thedepressionshould be deepest in the middle and feather at each end. Then take a slip ofpower fiber just thick enough to fill the center of the depression. Glue itinplace and tightly wrap, working from the center to the edges. When dry,fileand sand it to blend in with the hex section. I would use epoxy anddefinitlyoverwrap. Try to match the cane colors. Try to get one end under a guidewrap. from anglport@con2.com Wed Nov 25 16:45:40 1998 Subject: Re: Thanksgiving Dear McDowell,I should like to respectfully say: BULLTIPPIES!!!!!!You have T- Day YOUR way and I'll have it MY way.Happy Thanksgiving to all!Art At 11:32 AM 11/25/98 PST, you wrote:Alright guys and gals, no working on flyrods tommorrow. You can talkabout them if an inlaw brings up the subject first, but there will be no capitalizing on the conversation. Help with the cooking, play with the kids, and stay out of the shop/garage. If that UPS driver arrives today with the components you've been waiting for, then you tell him to comeback on Friday. Bamboo book reading and lawn casting is allowed inmoderation, but only after the rest of the group is drugged into complacency by the effects of too much turkey. from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Nov 25 17:15:33 1998 Subject: Re: Thanksgiving Mac, I have to agree with Art a bit on this one. Just got 2 reelseatstoday. I will do my best to waite until everyone leaves, but no guarantee. Rob Clarke ----------From: Art Port Subject: Re: ThanksgivingDate: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 2:44 PM Dear McDowell,I should like to respectfully say: BULLTIPPIES!!!!!!You have T- Day YOUR way and I'll have it MY way.Happy Thanksgiving to all!Art At 11:32 AM 11/25/98 PST, you wrote:Alright guys and gals, no working on flyrods tommorrow. You can talkabout them if an inlaw brings up the subject first, but there will be no capitalizing on the conversation. Help with the cooking, play with the kids, and stay out of the shop/garage. If that UPS driver arrives today with the components you've been waiting for, then you tell him to comeback on Friday. Bamboo book reading and lawn casting is allowed inmoderation, but only after the rest of the group is drugged into complacency by the effects of too much turkey. from rcurry@top.monad.net Wed Nov 25 17:54:53 1998 Subject: Re: silk Jerry Foster wrote: Reed I read about furled leaders in "Micropatterns" by Darrel Martin.. lookslike a way to to make your own tapered leaders out of strands of alsmostany kind of material, he suggests that they carry the power of the castto the fly better than mono but the fly always lands softer than agnat.. my words..i use white lithium on my reels..might work also (never dries) regards jerryJerry,The gnats (black) in N.H. land like small bombers, take their pound offlesh and depart. Not a great endorsement for delicacy.These furled leaders sound interesting. I may try one next season;however, I was able to shorten my leaders this season by 3' and stillget a good turnover. I changed the butt diameter from .022 Maxima, to.015 Maxima and shortened the butt sections appropriately. I was able todo this because my fly line is .020 at the tip; rather than the .037 Ihad in the old days of PVC : ) When before I would cast a 12' leader, itis now 9'; my 9' is down to 6'. Much easier to manage.Best regards,Reed from rcurry@top.monad.net Wed Nov 25 18:16:56 1998 Subject: Sometimes the material is too good All,I experienced something today that I understand may fall loosely intothe "thought" classification, at any rate it was a novel sensation.While tying some Pink Ladys for next year, I began to wonder whypatterns like that went out of fashion; I mean I can actually see a #18Pink Lady, a lot of the new ties are invisible to me at 20'.I believe the reason why the highriding Catskill ties were replaced bythorax, parachute, and hackleless flies is not due to a failing of thepattern; rather, the quality of hackles has so improved that the fliesno longer work. To explain, when I was a pup, a hackle neck was from anIndian gamecock, half of each hackle was web, and the fibers were soft,compared to today's standard. The flies tied with these hackles tendedto splay out, soak up a bit of water, and leave the fly riding in thefilm, not on it. The old patterns caught fish because they rode low inthe water (usually).This may be applied to rodmaking. We should be cautious about tryingtouse cane of too high a power-fiber-density, especially in the tips.Perhaps if makers set aside the cane with less thickness of power fiber originals.Just a thought.Best regards,Reed from gjflyfsh@juno.com Wed Nov 25 18:19:33 1998 19:15:45 EST Subject: Re: Thanksgiving Home Alone! swmbo visiting sister-in-law---Planing---3pm-ish steak &winejerry from lblan@provide.net Wed Nov 25 18:24:19 1998 Subject: RE: archives Yet another fine job Jerry! Thanks! -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 4:08 PM Subject: archives ok, i finally got a primative version of the archives running.. some ofit isn't complete but for those of you interested in the archives (RMA)they are up to date.. this may or may not be the final solution.. http://www2.crosswinds.net/sacramento/~jfoster/rodmakers/ jer from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Nov 25 18:28:56 1998 Subject: Re: silk Reed I was waiting for Tom Smithwick to chime in on this topic - hemakes them.I have seen him do it and they are really simple to do. Trick is to use silkthreadto make them with. Maybe this would be a good demo for Roscoe next year.Peoplecan bring their silk lines and we will make silk furled leaders to go withthem. Considering the price ($19.95) on the web site - this will be a easythingto do at home. BTW, you can do designer colors for these leaders - thinkofthe possibilities - maybe a nice tartan plaid for Scottish waters or justplain Single Malt Chris On Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:58:14 -0500, Reed F. Curry wrote: Jerry Foster wrote: Reed I read about furled leaders in "Micropatterns" by Darrel Martin.. lookslike a way to to make your own tapered leaders out of strands ofalsmostany kind of material, he suggests that they carry the power of the castto the fly better than mono but the fly always lands softer than agnat.. my words..i use white lithium on my reels..might work also (never dries) regards jerryJerry,The gnats (black) in N.H. land like small bombers, take their pound offlesh and depart. Not a great endorsement for delicacy.These furled leaders sound interesting. I may try one next season;however, I was able to shorten my leaders this season by 3' and stillget a good turnover. I changed the butt diameter from .022 Maxima, to.015 Maxima and shortened the butt sections appropriately. I was able todo this because my fly line is .020 at the tip; rather than the .037 Ihad in the old days of PVC : ) When before I would cast a 12' leader, itis now 9'; my 9' is down to 6'. Much easier to manage.Best regards,Reed from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Nov 25 19:41:24 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Thanksgiving Jerry and all,Enjoy!Hank W. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Nov 25 19:41:32 1998 Subject: Re: Sometimes the material is too good Reed,Some of those "originals" were slow as molasses and reciting the OldTestament before beginning my forward cast is not to my taste (some saythatmy taste is all in my mouth). :-)Best regards,Hank W.P.S. Hounds ran over top of the Bull Run Mtns. today-got 'em all backafter a little climbing. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Nov 25 19:41:33 1998 Subject: Re: Thanksgiving Chris, Aw shucksHank W. from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Nov 25 19:51:42 1998 forged)) Subject: Re: Sometimes the material is too good Reed All I can say is once a wet fly man - always a wet fly man. Chris On Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:20:17 -0500, Reed F. Curry wrote: All,I experienced something today that I understand may fall loosely intothe "thought" classification, at any rate it was a novel sensation.While tying some Pink Ladys for next year, I began to wonder whypatterns like that went out of fashion; I mean I can actually see a #18Pink Lady, a lot of the new ties are invisible to me at 20'.I believe the reason why the highriding Catskill ties were replacedbythorax, parachute, and hackleless flies is not due to a failing of thepattern; rather, the quality of hackles has so improved that the fliesno longer work. To explain, when I was a pup, a hackle neck was from anIndian gamecock, half of each hackle was web, and the fibers were soft,compared to today's standard. The flies tied with these hackles tendedto splay out, soak up a bit of water, and leave the fly riding in thefilm, not on it. The old patterns caught fish because they rode low inthe water (usually).This may be applied to rodmaking. We should be cautious about tryingtouse cane of too high a power-fiber-density, especially in the tips.Perhaps if makers set aside the cane with less thickness of power fiber originals.Just a thought.Best regards,Reed from jczimny@dol.net Wed Nov 25 20:28:38 1998 -0500 Subject: RE: Sometimes the material is too good =_NextPart_000_01BE18B2.3E5A4060" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE18B2.3E5A4060 Reed,You're correct. Very good insight. You mean we should use poorer hackle onthe classics..John -----Original Message----- Subject: Sometimes the material is too good All,I experienced something today that I understand may fall loosely intothe "thought" classification, at any rate it was a novel sensation.While tying some Pink Ladys for next year, I began to wonder whypatterns like that went out of fashion; I mean I can actually see a #18Pink Lady, a lot of the new ties are invisible to me at 20'.I believe the reason why the highriding Catskill ties were replaced bythorax, parachute, and hackleless flies is not due to a failing of thepattern; rather, the quality of hackles has so improved that the fliesno longer work. To explain, when I was a pup, a hackle neck was from anIndian gamecock, half of each hackle was web, and the fibers were soft,compared to today's standard. The flies tied with these hackles tendedto splay out, soak up a bit of water, and leave the fly riding in thefilm, not on it. The old patterns caught fish because they rode low inthe water (usually).This may be applied to rodmaking. We should be cautious about tryingtouse cane of too high a power-fiber-density, especially in the tips.Perhaps if makers set aside the cane with less thickness of power fiber originals.Just a thought.Best regards,Reed------ =_NextPart_000_01BE18B2.3E5A4060 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE18B2.3E5A4060-- from saweiss@flash.net Wed Nov 25 22:58:40 1998 Subject: Re: Lathe Tool Post & Holders The Home Shop MachinistVillage Communications2779 Aero Park DriveTraverse City MI 49684(800) 632-0966You'll like it.John Z-----Original Message----- I tried that phone # and got a recording that either the number was notcorrect or that it is blocked to access.Do you have a non-800 number?Thanks,Steve from jczimny@dol.net Wed Nov 25 23:18:38 1998 0500 Subject: RE: Lathe Tool Post & Holders =_NextPart_000_01BE18D1.305BB2E0" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE18D1.305BB2E0 No. I'm sorry, I don't.John Z -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Lathe Tool Post & Holders The Home Shop MachinistVillage Communications2779 Aero Park DriveTraverse City MI 49684(800) 632-0966You'll like it.John Z-----Original Message----- I tried that phone # and got a recording that either the number was notcorrect or that it is blocked to access.Do you have a non-800 number?Thanks,Steve ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE18D1.305BB2E0 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE18D1.305BB2E0-- from TroutMagic@aol.com Wed Nov 25 23:40:07 1998 Subject: Re: Furled Leaders How to (was Silk) Richard and all, Here is the url for the site that has the instructions for making furledleaders. Click on table of Contents and it will be listed there. http://www.danica.com/mj/index.html Happy Thanksgiving to all Al from ragnarig@integrityol.com Thu Nov 26 00:07:00 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A26619E7010A; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 22:17:10 PDT Subject: Re: Sometimes the material is too good boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01BE18BF.99529960" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BE18BF.99529960 .>To explain, when I was a pup, a hackle neck was from anIndian gamecock, half of each hackle was web, and the fibers were soft,compared to today's standard. The flies tied with these hackles tendedto splay out, soak up a bit of water, and leave the fly riding in thefilm, not on it. The old patterns caught fish because they rode low inthe water (usually). Reed So, if I understand correctly, you're saying you can get hackles from =something besides an Indian cock neck? I once heard a suggestion to =that effect, but the guy said it cost $75 so I know he was Meshuga. Davy ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BE18BF.99529960 gamecock, half of each hackle was web, and the fibers were = out, soak up a bit of water, and leave the fly riding in = (usually). Reed So, if I understand = you're saying you can get hackles from something besides an = $75 so I know he was Meshuga. Davy ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BE18BF.99529960-- from Rodsofcane@aol.com Thu Nov 26 05:36:17 1998 Subject: Re: Thanksgiving Our Thanksgiving is at my brother in laws, they have a 2 acre pond withbass,brim and catfish. I will slip away and have to cast a line. But only after Ifinish my Honey - Dos of schmoozing with the in laws and her family. I wish you all a Happy Thanksgiving! Kent K. AndersonNashville, TN from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Nov 26 08:02:32 1998 Subject: Re: silk furled leaders In a message dated 11/26/98 1:49:57 AM, you wrote: Good Idea Chris. I have had some experience with the things, and like thesilkversions especially. The mono versions also work well, but you have topickyour spots. If you are in a place where snags are common, the mono has atendency to twist when you pull on it, and then tangle when it breaks free.Not a really big problem, just something to be aware of. In general,turnoverseems good, and drifts seem superior. from JHecht9234@aol.com Thu Nov 26 08:15:58 1998 Subject: Resorcinal question I was planning to try resorcinal for the first time and had a couple ofquestions if there are any past users out there. 1. The instructions recommend 100 parts liquid resin to 20 parts powdercatylst by weight. Should this be thinned for rodmaking and, if so, howmuchand with what? 2. The instructions talk about "closed assembly time" (with a min. or 15min.and a max. of 60 min. at 70 degrees), which is apparently distinguishedfrom"open assembly time" and from the time to put the assembly underpressure.Does anyone know what this refers to? Should you fold up the strips butnotbind them for 15 minutes? 3. The instructions speak of a min. moisture content of 6 percent so thatthewood will not aborb too much water and affect the bond. This seems likeaparadox for rodmakers who are trying to keep the strips as dry aspossible.Anyone have any thoughts or experience with this? How do you know thatyourstrips are not too dry? Given the panic I usually feel when gluing, I certainly would appreciateanyadvice. from flytier@worldonline.nl Thu Nov 26 08:25:43 1998 (MET) Subject: Thread furled leaders (was: silk furled leaders) On 26 Nov 98, at 8:59, TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: Good Idea Chris. I have had some experience with the things, and like thesilk versions especially. The mono versions also work well, but you haveto pick your spots. If you are in a place where snags are common, themono has a tendency to twist when you pull on it, and then tangle whenitbreaks free. Not a really big problem, just something to be aware of. Ingeneral, turnover seems good, and drifts seem superior. Tom, Have moved from mono furled leaders to same, but made from _tying_ thread. (6/0 Uni, 3/0 Uni and Monocord ones) Everything the mono ones are, without the drawbacks. - No kick-back- No "spray"- No memory I'm hooked ;-) Cheers,Hans ------------------------------------------------------------ The Netherlands http://members.xoom.com/Flytier-------------------- ---------------------------------------- from anglport@con2.com Thu Nov 26 08:45:15 1998 Subject: RE: Lathe Tool Post & Holders Steve,If you have a REALLY well stocked mag store (Borders?) near you,try them many now to support another!Art At 12:08 AM 11/26/98 -0500, you wrote:No. I'm sorry, I don't.John Z -----Original Message-----From: Dr. Steven A. Weiss [SMTP:saweiss@flash.net]Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 11:59 PM Subject: Re: Lathe Tool Post & Holders The Home Shop MachinistVillage Communications2779 Aero Park DriveTraverse City MI 49684(800) 632-0966You'll like it.John Z-----Original Message----- I tried that phone # and got a recording that either the number was notcorrect or that it is blocked to access.Do you have a non-800 number?Thanks,Steve Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\RE Lathe Tool Post & Holders2" from channer@hubwest.com Thu Nov 26 08:51:48 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AB6F142009E; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 07:53:35 MST Subject: Re: silk furled leaders At 08:59 AM 11/26/98 EST, you wrote: In a message dated 11/26/98 1:49:57 AM, you wrote: Good Idea Chris. I have had some experience with the things, and like thesilkversions especially. The mono versions also work well, but you have topickyour spots. If you are in a place where snags are common, the mono has atendency to twist when you pull on it, and then tangle when it breaksfree.Not a really big problem, just something to be aware of. In general,turnoverseems good, and drifts seem superior. Tom;Can these leaders be made with silk rodwinding thread? I have a lot ofbothsize 50 and 100. Would you use something like Gink on it to make it float? John from sats@gte.net Thu Nov 26 10:11:39 1998 Subject: Re: Cane seam repair? I removed the overwrap and found a bad area on one strip near a node. Itlookslike the node MIGHT have split at one time and a fiber stuck up andsomehowgot broken off. So there's a gap of about 3/4" x 1/64th" where the fiber iscompletely missing. How would you repair? I'd rule out trying to fill it with anything. I don't think most productswouldhold up under the "flex." (unless it's going to be a wall hanger.) If it's not a structural (casting) problem why not just leave as is. It'llgivesome character to the rod. Not that Hedon's don't already have character. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from jfoster@gte.net Thu Nov 26 10:59:28 1998 Subject: Re: Furled Leaders How to (was Silk) mac-creator="4D4F5353" Happy Hollidays all Tom, did you make a Waltons engine or do you use hooks as described onthe dancia page ? (thanks Al) thanks all regards jerry from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Nov 26 11:37:27 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Thanksgiving McD,I don't think so buddy i have one rod almost finished planed and I alreadypealed potaotoes so I am off to my shop. They will know where to find mewhenthe grub is done.Bret from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Nov 26 11:38:04 1998 Subject: Re: Thread furled leaders (was: silk furled leaders) In a message dated 11/26/98 2:31:12 PM, you wrote: Hans - Do you dress them with anything when you use them? I have beenusingmucilin on the silk with good results when fishing dry flys. I still use amono tippet, of course. from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Nov 26 11:45:37 1998 Subject: Re: Re: silk furled leaders In a message dated 11/26/98 2:56:54 PM, you wrote: John - Size 3/0 makes a fairly heavy leader, suitable for a 6 of 7 weightline. Size 5/0 is more like it for most trout fishing, but it all depends onthe number of strands used, and the taper built in. Get a copy of November1997 "Fly Rod and Reel" for some basic instruction. There is a web sitealsoat www.idg.dk/mj/tacktech/henk/henk2.htm from Canerods@aol.com Thu Nov 26 11:55:28 1998 Subject: Jerry's new web site Jerry, I couldn't get the site to load this morning, got it to open just now. The"You are visitor # zzzz" didn't seem to work. Don Burns from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Nov 26 11:56:32 1998 Subject: TitebondII I was thinking about using Titebond II for this rod I am building right nowand was wondering if you guys who are using it can give me some insighton thebest way to use it. Do I need to thin it down a little, how much workingtimedo I have with it and any other pointers you guys may have? I rememberreading awhile back about an extender of sorts for it.Bret from flytier@worldonline.nl Thu Nov 26 12:02:42 1998 (MET) Subject: Re: Thread furled leaders On 26 Nov 98, at 12:36, TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: Have moved from mono furled leaders to same, but made from _tying_ thread. (6/0 Uni, 3/0 Uni and Monocord ones)>> Hans - Do you dress them with anything when you use them? I have beenusing mucilin on the silk with good results when fishing dry flys. I stilluse a mono tippet, of course. Tom, I use my regular paste floatant on them, Loon Aquel. But Mucelin would work fine, I'm sure ;-) Yes, mono tippets. Cheers,Hans ------------------------------------------------------------ The Netherlands http://members.xoom.com/Flytier-------------------- ---------------------------------------- from flytier@worldonline.nl Thu Nov 26 12:02:43 1998 (MET) Subject: Re: silk furled leaders On 26 Nov 98, at 12:44, TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: There is a web site also at www.idg.dk/mj/tacktech/henk/henk2.htm Tom, Martin's web page has moved. The url is now: www.danica.com/mj/tacktech/henk/henk2.htm Cheers,Hans ------------------------------------------------------------ The Netherlands http://members.xoom.com/Flytier-------------------- ---------------------------------------- from rmoon@ida.net Thu Nov 26 14:43:33 1998 Subject: Re: TitebondII Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: I was thinking about using Titebond II for this rod I am building rightnowand was wondering if you guys who are using it can give me some insighton thebest way to use it. Do I need to thin it down a little, how much workingtimedo I have with it and any other pointers you guys may have? I rememberreading awhile back about an extender of sorts for it.Bret Bret, When I talked to the lab at Titebond, I was warned that no more than5%thinning. More than that affects the bond. I would not thin at all, exceptthatthe 5% may get you one or two minutes working time. Try Titebond IIExtend to geteven more time without thinning. I will warn you that the extend stillsets upquickly for an initial tackRalph from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Nov 26 15:29:32 1998 (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Lathe Tool Post & Holders I do: (800) 447-7367(616) 946-3712 FAX (616) 946-3289Website http://members.aol.com/vpshop/hsm.htmE- mail vpshop@aol.com Happy Thanksgiving!George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Lathe Tool Post & Holders No. I'm sorry, I don't.John Z -----Original Message-----From: Dr. Steven A. Weiss [SMTP:saweiss@flash.net]Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 11:59 PM Subject: Re: Lathe Tool Post & Holders The Home Shop MachinistVillage Communications2779 Aero Park DriveTraverse City MI 49684(800) 632-0966You'll like it.John Z-----Original Message----- I tried that phone # and got a recording that either the number was notcorrect or that it is blocked to access.Do you have a non-800 number?Thanks,Steve from MICK@welfen-netz.com Thu Nov 26 19:09:24 1998 [195.143.56.1] with SMTP(MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Fri, 27 Nov 199802:08:38 +0100 Subject: Re: Noris rod Hi Jan,Noris was the name of a German fishing tackle wholeseller. They didn'thave theirown rodmakers as far as I know. They bought tackle (reels/rods) cheap inJapan.Later the company was bought by shakespeare. Last year I heard at theEFTTEX thatthe old Noris people bought the name back. Don't know what they're goingto do.About the special rod I haven't heard of nothing but I wouldn't spend adime butI'm an ignorant anyway.regardsMichael Ian Kearney wrote: I was offered a rod today which I had not heard of . The rod is a "Noris1670" and also has the name "Habil" on it . The guy who owns it said hisfather bought it in South Africa in the 1950's . It is in unused condition.It has very few intermediates , which makes me think it could be fromthe USA . The reel is a JW Young from England so it could be a lessor known Britishmaker but in the mid fifties the british rods still tended to have moreintermediate bindings . The rod is in mint condition but has nodes which seem to be random ,bridgedline guides, and nickle reel seat. If anyone has heard of this maker could they kindly let me know. Thanks iank from MICK@welfen-netz.com Thu Nov 26 19:15:48 1998 [195.143.56.1] with SMTP(MDaemon.v2.7.SP3.R) for ; Fri, 27 Nov 199802:14:49 +0100 Subject: Re: All you nodeless types TonyI've seen this type of rod at EFTTEX this year and (surprise, surprise) itwas anamerican company which was proud of its environmental engagement. rotfl:)Michael Tony Young wrote: Piece of cake. Mince the whole lot up, mix epoxy with it and extrudethe whole stinking mess into something like a hex shaped plastic rod.Call it monohex or some other catchy meaningless name like that. Just intime for Christmas too. Tony On Tue, 24 Nov 1998, Don Andersen wrote: At 18:51 23/11/98 -0500, you wrote:Max / Don You guys scare me - the truth lies in the casting not the breaking. Chris On Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:58:43 +0900, Max Satoh wrote: Chris, Ya - but what if the nodes are 30% stronger than the internodal areas.Justthink of the slim/sleek cane pole you could build them. You could evendyeit black and it would rival them graphite things. Just gotta figure out away to make a be-zillion splices all 2" long. Don /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from rmoon@ida.net Thu Nov 26 20:47:44 1998 Subject: Re: Noris rod Ian A cane rod made in 1670 has got to be a very unusual one. I have not doneanychecking, but Thadeaus Norris must have been somewhatcontemporaneous. Perhaps ifyou gave a little more detail, it might help a little.Ralph from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Nov 26 21:43:50 1998 Fri, 27 Nov 1998 11:42:38 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Disaster strikesMessage-ID: SPs are wierd things aren't they? I'm sure I had some mail here when I last opened but my inbox is a bit Mother Hubbardish just now. Don B, would you please remail those messages?Also, somebody was asking about Resorcinol. I never cut the mix differently to what the the instructions recomend but the glue I get is very fine in the first place, there isn't any need to sieve or anything like that in my case. It's a good idea to give the splines some open time but not too much as the time it takes just to spread the glue and get yourself sorted before binding is prob enough. Keep in mind resorcinal dosn't really work below a certain temp and that includes the splines not just the pot. I've found the working time to be around 20-25 mins. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Nov 26 22:01:32 1998 (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Don Burns: Thanks! boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0053_01BE1978.734C4220" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01BE1978.734C4220 Sorry to use the bandwidth...I thought I had Don's e-mail address but =don't. George Bourke ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01BE1978.734C4220 Sorry to use the bandwidth...I = Don's e-mail address but don't. George =Bourke ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01BE1978.734C4220-- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Nov 27 08:34:36 1998 Fri, 27 Nov 1998 22:34:02 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Fwd: Resorcinal question Strange things are happening with my SP and possibly this has already been floged to death and my last meaasge may of may not have got throughbut I'll add my .02 cents anyhow. Thanks Don for forwarding this. I was planning to try resorcinal for the first time and had a couple ofquestions if there are any past users out there. 1. The instructions recommend 100 parts liquid resin to 20 partspowdercatylst by weight. Should this be thinned for rodmaking and, if so,how muchand with what? I'd use it as recomended, but *possibly* strain it if it looks to have large filler material. 2. The instructions talk about "closed assembly time" (with a min. or15 min.and a max. of 60 min. at 70 degrees), which is apparently distinguishedfrom"open assembly time" and from the time to put the assembly underpressure.Does anyone know what this refers to? Should you fold up the stripsbutnotbind them for 15 minutes? Not too sure about the short closed assembly time however it is worth having some open assembly time for cane though it may not be necessaryto actually set it aside for any time as the time it takes to brush it on (use a tooth brush, a trick told to me by a few good men on this list) then get prepared before actually binding is prob enough. If you spend 5-10 mins from start to finish then wait 15 mins open time you'll be running out of pot life.I don't know if the resorcinol here is designed for higher temps you can expect here or if it's all the same everywhere but you shouldn't use it below 10 degrees cent and hanging about too much will have the glue tacking up a bit faster than you'd like so get ready and go at it in a business like manner, no need to rush though.Once it starts to tack up stop trying to straighten the rod as you'll possibly affect the bond and if you need to reopen the rod reapply glue, don't just stick it back together. 3. The instructions speak of a min. moisture content of 6 percent sothat thewood will not aborb too much water and affect the bond. This seemslike aparadox for rodmakers who are trying to keep the strips as dry aspossible.Anyone have any thoughts or experience with this? How do you knowthatyourstrips are not too dry? Dont worry about it. That's part of the reason for the open assembly time.Basicaly the cane will absorb some glue without pressure during the open assembly time, binding will apply plenty of pressure as you'll see by the amount of glue squeeze out. Given the panic I usually feel when gluing, I certainly wouldappreciateanyadvice. Relax and take the phone off the hook. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from saltwein@swbell.net Fri Nov 27 08:46:21 1998 IAA13259 Subject: Guides Hello, I have bought two sets of guides for the five foot spinning rod that Imade. I am not happy with either one of them. Does anyone havesuggestions? Both sets I have are double footed. I thought that would look better onbamboo. The first set I bought the first guide from the reel was way tobig. The second set is gold plated and the ring size seems ok but thefeet seem really large and are going to have to be ground significantlyto be wrapped with silk. I am open to any and all suggestions. TIA. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from ragnarig@integrityol.com Fri Nov 27 08:52:50 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id AF1BE350124; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 07:02:51 PDT Subject: re: resorcinol boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003D_01BE19D2.3353A960" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BE19D2.3353A960 Dear J My early experiences with resorcinol were in a shop the size of a hangar =that used it in 55 gal. drums and we had Federal agents lurking about =who wouldn't allow us to cut the mixture; and I wouldn't cut it for = I've got the data sheets in a loose-leaf down at the shop, but that ="closed assy. time" is not something that will come into play with cane =rods. It'll be a matter of slathering the stuff on and then lining =everything up and binding it. Get everything ready and pre-assembled =with masking tape or something beforehand. The problem with too low a moisture content is that, once assembled, the=cane will suck all the moisture out of the glue joint and starve it. If =you use sufficient pressure, your glue-line will be very fine and you =can't afford any voids there. Hope this helps a little. Davy I was planning to try resorcinal for the first time and had a couple ofquestions if there are any past users out there. 1. The instructions recommend 100 parts liquid resin to 20 parts =powdercatylst by weight. Should this be thinned for rodmaking and, if so, =howmuchand with what? 2. The instructions talk about "closed assembly time" (with a min. or =15min.and a max. of 60 min. at 70 degrees), which is apparently distinguishedfrom"open assembly time" and from the time to put the assembly under =pressure.Does anyone know what this refers to? Should you fold up the strips =butnotbind them for 15 minutes? 3. The instructions speak of a min. moisture content of 6 percent so =thatthewood will not aborb too much water and affect the bond. This seems =like aparadox for rodmakers who are trying to keep the strips as dry as =possible.Anyone have any thoughts or experience with this? How do you know thatyourstrips are not too dry? Given the panic I usually feel when gluing, I certainly would =appreciateanyadvice. ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BE19D2.3353A960 Dear J My early experiences with resorcinol were in a shop the size of a = that used it in 55 gal. drums and we had Federal agents lurking about = wouldn't allow us to cut the mixture; and I wouldn't cut it for = I've got the data sheets in a loose-leaf down at the shop, but that = "closed assy. time" is not something that will come into play = masking tape or something beforehand. The problem with too low a moisture content is that, once = cane will suck all the moisture out of the glue joint and starve = you use sufficient pressure, your glue-line will be very fine and you = afford any voids there. Hope this helps a little. Davy = time" and from the time to put the assembly under = would ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BE19D2.3353A960-- from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Nov 27 09:05:37 1998 216.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.09.21.23.34)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, Subject: RE: Guides Hi Steve, Perhaps you should consider making your own snake guides. It's really veryeasy. I purchased a snake guide maker from someone on this list andboughtsome stainless steel wire from an orthodontic supplier. Plain old HobbyShopmusic wire works fine too. It's quite relaxing to sit on the couch watchinga movie while making snake guides. An added bonus is that you can makethenexactly the way you want for pennies per guide. Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: Guides Hello, I have bought two sets of guides for the five foot spinning rod that Imade. I am not happy with either one of them. Does anyone havesuggestions? Both sets I have are double footed. I thought that would look better onbamboo. The first set I bought the first guide from the reel was way tobig. The second set is gold plated and the ring size seems ok but thefeet seem really large and are going to have to be ground significantlyto be wrapped with silk. I am open to any and all suggestions. TIA. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Nov 27 09:27:44 1998 Subject: Re: Guides At 08:48 27/11/98 -0800, you wrote:Hello, I have bought two sets of guides for the five foot spinning rod that Imade. I am not happy with either one of them. Does anyone havesuggestions? Both sets I have are double footed. I thought that would look better onbamboo. The first set I bought the first guide from the reel was way tobig. The second set is gold plated and the ring size seems ok but thefeet seem really large and are going to have to be ground significantlyto be wrapped with silk. I am open to any and all suggestions. TIA. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Steve, Have built 2 spinning rods and used Atena Foulproof guides on each ofthem.The guides are essentially a loop of chrome plated wire that is formed tomake the guide. The feet are a continuation of the guide wire and are easyto fit and taper + they look good. They certainly wouldn't last as long asthe ceramic guides. Don from RVenneri@aol.com Fri Nov 27 09:42:12 1998 Subject: Re: Guides I have about 100 sets of PUCHI guides. These are as described just achromewire made into a spinning guide. They are very light and have a fine foot.Any one interested contact me off list. Best Regards,Bob Vrvenneri@aol.com from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Fri Nov 27 11:20:33 1998 Subject: Re: Guides Does this rod have the long cork grip/seat ala the old spin/fly rods withthe two slip rings? Regards, BP2 On Fri, 27 Nov 1998, Steve wrote: Hello, I have bought two sets of guides for the five foot spinning rod that Imade. I am not happy with either one of them. Does anyone havesuggestions? Both sets I have are double footed. I thought that would look better onbamboo. The first set I bought the first guide from the reel was way tobig. The second set is gold plated and the ring size seems ok but thefeet seem really large and are going to have to be ground significantlyto be wrapped with silk. I am open to any and all suggestions. TIA. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Nov 27 12:38:36 1998 Subject: Plane grooving - some observations To all, Some time ago there was a thread lasting for several days about groovingplanes - how much and so on. works great. So I chucked the plane in the mill and ran a groove of 0.002" from end to end.The plane worked great - cut sharping times by about 1/2 but the canestuckout of the forms by the same 0.002" of an inch that I had grooved into theplane. The other thing noticed is that I would occasionally have "wickers"sticking out along the side of the strips. So - I set my forms to allow for the "overage" and when I get about 0.010"oversize I pay particular attention to both planed sides to see if there isany "wickers". Removing them will occasionally cause the enamel side tocrack slightly. If done about 0.010" oversize, this allowed me time tocorrect the problem. The pith side is of little concern as I take about0.004" off the apex of the triangle after final planning. I checked to see how much the cane was above the forms after the planedidn't remove any more material by:* placing a heavy straight edge on top of the cane and @ 90 degrees to thecane strip while the cane was in the forms and @ the same place where itwas planed.* if the straight edge "rocks" that means that your cane strip is above theforms. * slid feeler gages under each side of the straight edge between thestraight edge and the forms to determine the amount the cane is above theforms.* adjust your forms to compensate for the change in taper. What I haven't yet determined is whether the plane blade takes a differentdepth cut after sharpening with the grooved plane. I wouldn't think so buthaven't yet tried it. I have been lucky enough to go the required 12 tipstrips without sharpening. Resetting the blade after sharpening may meanthe blade may be deeper or not so deep out of the plane body. Just some observation whatever they are worth, take care, Don from jczimny@dol.net Fri Nov 27 13:03:43 1998 Subject: Re: Plane grooving - some observations Hi Don,What's a wicker????John Z-----Original Message----- Subject: Plane grooving - some observations To all, Some time ago there was a thread lasting for several days about groovingplanes - how much and so on. works great. So I chucked the plane in the mill and ran a groove of 0.002" from end to end.The plane worked great - cut sharping times by about 1/2 but the canestuckout of the forms by the same 0.002" of an inch that I had grooved into theplane. The other thing noticed is that I would occasionally have "wickers"sticking out along the side of the strips. So - I set my forms to allow for the "overage" and when I get about0.010"oversize I pay particular attention to both planed sides to see if there isany "wickers". Removing them will occasionally cause the enamel side tocrack slightly. If done about 0.010" oversize, this allowed me time tocorrect the problem. The pith side is of little concern as I take about0.004" off the apex of the triangle after final planning. I checked to see how much the cane was above the forms after the planedidn't remove any more material by:* placing a heavy straight edge on top of the cane and @ 90 degrees to thecane strip while the cane was in the forms and @ the same place where itwas planed.* if the straight edge "rocks" that means that your cane strip is above theforms.* slid feeler gages under each side of the straight edge between thestraight edge and the forms to determine the amount the cane is abovetheforms.* adjust your forms to compensate for the change in taper. What I haven't yet determined is whether the plane blade takes adifferentdepth cut after sharpening with the grooved plane. I wouldn't think so buthaven't yet tried it. I have been lucky enough to go the required 12 tipstrips without sharpening. Resetting the blade after sharpening may meanthe blade may be deeper or not so deep out of the plane body. Just some observation whatever they are worth, take care, Don from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Nov 27 13:20:27 1998 Subject: Re: Plane grooving - some observations At 13:59 27/11/98 -0500, John wrote:Hi Don,What's a wicker????John Z John, Always called them little sliver things that stick outta the side of othermore bigger things as wickers. To get a demonstration - find a piece ofcane with a sliver sticking out. Run you hand along the side until thesliver sticks in you hand - you pull it out & you are now in proudprocession of a "wicker". Don from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Nov 27 16:13:29 1998 Subject: Re: Plane grooving - some observations Don Now I know you're sick. First breaking cane and now impaling! Chris On Fri, 27 Nov 1998 13:01:08, Don Andersen wrote: At 13:59 27/11/98 -0500, John wrote:Hi Don,What's a wicker????John Z John, Always called them little sliver things that stick outta the side of othermore bigger things as wickers. To get a demonstration - find a piece ofcane with a sliver sticking out. Run you hand along the side until thesliver sticks in you hand - you pull it out & you are now in proudprocession of a "wicker". Don from fr.keulen@wxs.nl Fri Nov 27 16:26:27 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA63A6 +0100 Subject: Re: Guides Don Andersen wrote: At 08:48 27/11/98 -0800, you wrote:Hello, I have bought two sets of guides for the five foot spinning rod that Imade. I am not happy with either one of them. Does anyone havesuggestions? Both sets I have are double footed. I thought that would look better onbamboo. The first set I bought the first guide from the reel was way tobig. The second set is gold plated and the ring size seems ok but thefeet seem really large and are going to have to be ground significantlyto be wrapped with silk. I am open to any and all suggestions. TIA. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Steve, Have built 2 spinning rods and used Atena Foulproof guides on each ofthem.The guides are essentially a loop of chrome plated wire that is formed tomake the guide. The feet are a continuation of the guide wire and areeasyto fit and taper + they look good. They certainly wouldn't last as long asthe ceramic guides. Don Steve, Why don't you make your own. Take a look at Max Sato's site for example.It'seasy, cheap, they can be extremely reliable. Don't use paperclips. Go toyourlocal dentist and ask for the kind of wire he uses to make braces. Don'tquestion the durability of the stuff. When was the last time you saw anyyoungbrat with rusty braces? Rens Oosthoek from rada@mibuzon.com Fri Nov 27 17:08:31 1998 Subject: Problems with Shell Epon I have glued one blank with Shell Epon 828 and 3140 cure agent for thefirst time and I have had problems when heat straightening. I used 1:1mix ratio (by weight) and let it cure for seven days at room temp. Thenwhen I started straightening with a heat gun some strips came unglued abit (almost a heart- attack). I don't think I have overheated, I did it asusual, so I don't know what's going on. Maybe this glue needs some heatpost cure instead of seven days at room temp?Any help would be appreciated as I have to go on with my next blank. Fernando RadaSpain. from anglport@con2.com Fri Nov 27 18:47:48 1998 Subject: Re: Problems with Shell Epon Fernando,I think your heat gun is putting out too much, too fast. Try a passive heatsource, like an electric burner. I've only built 3 blanks with the stuff soI'll defer to anyone else with an opinion, but I have had no trouble usingan electric stove (I also had excellent results with an electric source andURAC for over 20 other rods.) It also heats over a nice wide area for longcurving sweeps.Art At 01:11 AM 11/28/98 +0100, you wrote: I have glued one blank with Shell Epon 828 and 3140 cure agent for thefirst time and I have had problems when heat straightening. I used 1:1mix ratio (by weight) and let it cure for seven days at room temp. Thenwhen I started straightening with a heat gun some strips came unglued abit (almost a heart- attack). I don't think I have overheated, I did it asusual, so I don't know what's going on. Maybe this glue needs some heatpost cure instead of seven days at room temp?Any help would be appreciated as I have to go on with my next blank. Fernando RadaSpain. from bacon@idt.net Fri Nov 27 18:49:47 1998 Subject: thank you gals and guys,must let you know that although i shopped, cooked, cleaned, baked andenjoyed the company of my family, what was most upon my mind was thebamboo rod that i've started to build. even though i have a wonderfulteacher, the klutziness i am experiencing is certainly "putting me in myplace". enjoy the times when you can worry only about rodbuilding...and thank you all for your help! have, so far,.. split,removed the nodes with a little baseball bat (very good for agressivetendencies), split again, split again, steamed, sanded nodes, binded andcooked! you have all been very supportive. hoping to do this for funwhen i retire! but know i will never match the woodworking ability ofthe list people.jean (bacon@idt.net) from morten@flash.net Fri Nov 27 19:33:46 1998 Subject: Re: Plane grooving - some observations Don,I read your comments on plane grooving with great interest. 4 or 5 rodsback I too decided to groove my plane. I used Frank Neunemann's method,and made the groove .004 deep. This is how I proceed:Adjust the form to wanted depth.Adjust plane so that the blade just clears the form.Plane down all, but one strip untill plane stops taking off material.Resharpen blade and ajust as above.Plane down the final strip untill it takes off no more material andmeasure and record this strip at all stations (it will be too big atthis time).Readjust the form according to the strip measured.Without readjusting the plane, plane down all the strips.The strips are now the specified measurements and equal. I'm very happy with my grooved plane and I'm not planning on going backto a conventional setup. However the blade must be VERY sharp during thefinal planig.Best regardsMorten Lovstad-- 3119 Georgia Pine Dr.Spring, TX 77373(281) 353 5725http://www.flash.net/~morten/index.htm from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Fri Nov 27 20:18:57 1998 ix7.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Problems with Shell Epon Hi Fernando. I would agree with Art. I took several pieces of left overEpon and some other epoxy (Bondo marine epoxy) from mixing dishes andputthem in the oven. All entered a "jello" state at a little over 200degrees; didn't measure the exact temperature. The temperatrue is aboutthe same as when Titerbond II softens. If you bend the cane above thistemperature, the joint can delaminate. I guess this is both a good and abad thing. It's bad if you get to hot and delaminate the joint but itallows you to disassemble glue joints. Do as Art suggests and hold theheat down a mite. One other thing you might do is to use dental floss and"lace" the rod like the electronic technicians used to do cables. Thiswill give additional strength while straightning. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 07:46 PM 11/27/98 -0500, you wrote:Fernando,I think your heat gun is putting out too much, too fast. Try a passive heatsource, like an electric burner. I've only built 3 blanks with the stuff soI'll defer to anyone else with an opinion, but I have had no trouble usingan electric stove (I also had excellent results with an electric source andURAC for over 20 other rods.) It also heats over a nice wide area for longcurving sweeps.Art At 01:11 AM 11/28/98 +0100, you wrote: I have glued one blank with Shell Epon 828 and 3140 cure agent for thefirst time and I have had problems when heat straightening. I used 1:1mix ratio (by weight) and let it cure for seven days at room temp. Thenwhen I started straightening with a heat gun some strips came unglued abit (almost a heart- attack). I don't think I have overheated, I did it asusual, so I don't know what's going on. Maybe this glue needs some heatpost cure instead of seven days at room temp?Any help would be appreciated as I have to go on with my next blank. Fernando RadaSpain. from ragnarig@integrityol.com Fri Nov 27 20:52:03 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A78313620132; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 19:01:23 PDT Subject: Re: thank you have, so far,.. split,removed the nodes with a little baseball bat (very good for agressivetendencies), Jean Oh, how I wish I lived a little closer to the place where you are doingthis. I really wish I could see it! They say it won't be long before we are all in real-time visualcommunication on these things, but my imagination has a heyday when Ireadthings like this. OK Jean, how are you flattening nodes with a baseballbat? hoping to do this for funwhen i retire! I've got to think you'll be having a lot more fun than me! Davy from amcsmith@nlis.net Fri Nov 27 21:14:43 1998 Subject: guide wraps Hi all,i just purchased a cross/southbend flyrod it is lovely it was justrefinishedand has about a million decoretive wraps and it appears to have beendippedthe finnish is so even. the only trouble is almost all the guides are loosewhat didn't happen that caused this to happen, the wraps appear tight??very eveni don't have much into it as i bougth it ebay to be my second restorationprojectand expected it to be much rougher, it also has 3 tips only one of witch isshort.it also happens i'm a little parinoid now about this as the thing lookslike theguy did a good job rewrapping it would like to fish thisthank's in advancechris smith from saltwein@swbell.net Fri Nov 27 21:18:31 1998 VAA19608 Subject: Re: Guides Bob Perry wrote: Does this rod have the long cork grip/seat ala the old spin/fly rods withthe two slip rings? Regards, BP2 Bob, I made the grip and reel seat from cork but fashioned it after an ultralight handle. I used slip rings and two bamboo inserts. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from jczimny@dol.net Fri Nov 27 21:19:01 1998 -0500 Subject: RE: Problems with Shell Epon =_NextPart_000_01BE1A53.3D6CC9A0" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE1A53.3D6CC9A0 Dear Fernando,You have to be heating the strips too much. Also, check your binding =pressure. If the open joint isn't due to too much heat, then the problem =almost has to be a starved joint. With all epoxies, one need between 1.5 = 2 thousandths between materials. Where the joint is critical, glass =beads of the specific diameter needed is often added to and epoxy mix in =order to preserve that critical space.Most of us have avoided the problem by keeping a very light pressure on =the binder. Thus, allowing joint imperfections to accomplish this.John Z -----Original Message----- Subject: Problems with Shell Epon I have glued one blank with Shell Epon 828 and 3140 cure agent for thefirst time and I have had problems when heat straightening. I used 1:1mix ratio (by weight) and let it cure for seven days at room temp. Thenwhen I started straightening with a heat gun some strips came unglued abit (almost a heart- attack). I don't think I have overheated, I did it =asusual, so I don't know what's going on. Maybe this glue needs some heatpost cure instead of seven days at room temp?Any help would be appreciated as I have to go on with my next blank. Fernando RadaSpain. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE1A53.3D6CC9A0 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE1A53.3D6CC9A0-- from jczimny@dol.net Fri Nov 27 21:24:48 1998 -0500 Subject: RE: Problems with Shell Epon =_NextPart_000_01BE1A53.F5607660" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE1A53.F5607660 It should return to its original state unless you get it up over 360 degreesF. John Z -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Problems with Shell Epon Hi Fernando. I would agree with Art. I took several pieces of left overEpon and some other epoxy (Bondo marine epoxy) from mixing dishes andputthem in the oven. All entered a "jello" state at a little over 200degrees; didn't measure the exact temperature. The temperatrue is aboutthe same as when Titerbond II softens. If you bend the cane above thistemperature, the joint can delaminate. I guess this is both a good and abad thing. It's bad if you get to hot and delaminate the joint but itallows you to disassemble glue joints. Do as Art suggests and hold theheat down a mite. One other thing you might do is to use dental floss and"lace" the rod like the electronic technicians used to do cables. Thiswill give additional strength while straightning. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 07:46 PM 11/27/98 -0500, you wrote:Fernando,I think your heat gun is putting out too much, too fast. Try a passive heatsource, like an electric burner. I've only built 3 blanks with the stuff soI'll defer to anyone else with an opinion, but I have had no trouble usingan electric stove (I also had excellent results with an electric source andURAC for over 20 other rods.) It also heats over a nice wide area for longcurving sweeps.Art At 01:11 AM 11/28/98 +0100, you wrote: I have glued one blank with Shell Epon 828 and 3140 cure agent for thefirst time and I have had problems when heat straightening. I used 1:1mix ratio (by weight) and let it cure for seven days at room temp. Thenwhen I started straightening with a heat gun some strips came unglued abit (almost a heart- attack). I don't think I have overheated, I did it asusual, so I don't know what's going on. Maybe this glue needs some heatpost cure instead of seven days at room temp?Any help would be appreciated as I have to go on with my next blank. Fernando RadaSpain. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE1A53.F5607660 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE1A53.F5607660-- from morten@flash.net Fri Nov 27 21:53:14 1998 Subject: Re: Problems with Shell Epon Fernando,Be patient, epoxy is great stuff and you will develop a sense of howmuch heat is just enough, and when to wait and let it cool beforestraightening. (I just feel the heated area with my fingers). I havefound that the glue usually fails more easily close to the ends of theblank, and I do wrap the ends if I have to straighten these.Morten (281) 353 5725http://www.flash.net/~morten/index.htm from GLohkamp@aol.com Fri Nov 27 22:16:45 1998 Subject: Re: Problems with Shell Epon l wonder was it colder than 70 degs in the work shop when you glued uptheblank ? l have had some trouble gluing in the cold (that is my shop) Theresults were the same the section just popped open, didn't penetrate intothestrips ... just a thought Gary from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Fri Nov 27 23:13:00 1998 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id SAA12319 for ;Sat, 28 Nov 1998 18:13:05+1300 Subject: Re: Noris rod Thanks Micheal, That fits in with my feeling about the rod . It was in very good order butthe cane was not really smooth beneath the varnish finish ( reminded meofone of mine ) and some of the detail was not well done. The guy wanted $150 for it which I decided was too much. It seems I wasright. Thanks Iank. At 02:06 AM 27/11/98 +0100, you wrote:Hi Jan,Noris was the name of a German fishing tackle wholeseller. They didn'thavetheirown rodmakers as far as I know. They bought tackle (reels/rods) cheap inJapan.Later the company was bought by shakespeare. Last year I heard at theEFTTEX thatthe old Noris people bought the name back. Don't know what they're goingto do.About the special rod I haven't heard of nothing but I wouldn't spend adime butI'm an ignorant anyway.regardsMichael Ian Kearney wrote: I was offered a rod today which I had not heard of . The rod is a "Noris1670" and also has the name "Habil" on it . The guy who owns it said hisfather bought it in South Africa in the 1950's . It is in unused condition.It has very few intermediates , which makes me think it could be fromtheUSA . The reel is a JW Young from England so it could be a lessor knownBritishmaker but in the mid fifties the british rods still tended to have moreintermediate bindings . The rod is in mint condition but has nodes which seem to be random ,bridgedline guides, and nickle reel seat. If anyone has heard of this maker could they kindly let me know. Thanks iank from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Nov 28 08:58:19 1998 Subject: Re: Problems with Shell Epon Fernando I agree with the other comments about too much heat and John'scomments on binding. You also need to look at if you had good coverageof the strips with the glue and no contamination (oil) on the stripsthemselves.recommend using a tooth brush to apply the glue and spread it evenly Also, you need not wait 7 days for the glue to cure - I take off thestring the following day. I don't like to leave the binding cord on anylongerthan necessary - I did that once and found that the cord over the periodof the week shrunk and put bends in the blank that had been straight. With the string off - you can let the strips "relax" for a week if you so desire or continue to work on the rod blank. Do not know what your normal heat is but use minimal heat tostraighten - straightening is a finesse thing and there is no great leap of faith here. Ihad one studentbring me a butt sections glued with Urac that had a severe dog leg to the right -it resembled one of Tony's boomerangs rather than a fishing rod. Over the course of the next 2- 3 hours we were able to gently remove the bend. Straighten a little -rest a bit. Do not hurry or apply toomuchpressure - remember you heated the strips to make them pliable tostraighten and a bit toomuch pressure can cause bad things to happen since the glue is soft now. Chris On Sat, 28 Nov 1998 01:11:16 +0100, Forenoon Rada Briega wrote: I have glued one blank with Shell Epon 828 and 3140 cure agent for thefirst time and I have had problems when heat straightening. I used 1:1mix ratio (by weight) and let it cure for seven days at room temp. Thenwhen I started straightening with a heat gun some strips came unglued abit (almost a heart- attack). I don't think I have overheated, I did it asusual, so I don't know what's going on. Maybe this glue needs some heatpost cure instead of seven days at room temp?Any help would be appreciated as I have to go on with my next blank. Fernando RadaSpain. Regards Chris from channer@hubwest.com Sat Nov 28 16:30:31 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A9F51F6010A; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 15:32:21 MST7MDT Subject: test from djfinch@sprintmail.com Sat Nov 28 16:51:29 1998 OAA14290 Subject: test E89CA07DC2E11EA251AA651F" --------------E89CA07DC2E11EA251AA651F Is the list just slow or have I been bumped ? --------------E89CA07DC2E11EA251AA651F Is the list justslowor have I been bumped ? --------------E89CA07DC2E11EA251AA651F-- from anglport@con2.com Sat Nov 28 16:58:31 1998 Subject: Re: Problems with Shell Epon Chris,Are you sure the string PUT the bends in the rod? I have trouble seeing ifthe rod is straight when the string is ON and then when it's off I oftendiscover that there was a twist or a warp that wasn't apparent due to thewraps "smoothing it out". I use the finest string that Garrisonrecommended; I used to use the heavier string more often but found that itmade it even harder to tell what was going on. Any suggestions? I neverleft the wraps on for more than a day or two, either.Thanks,Art At 09:58 AM 11/28/98 -0500, you wrote:Fernandothan necessary - I did that once and found that the cord over the periodof the week shrunk and put bends in the blank that had been straight. Chris from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Nov 28 17:18:12 1998 Subject: Re: Problems with Shell Epon ArtIt is cotton and it shrinks. As I said earlier - I had a rod rolledout perfectly straight - it was straight the next day - but I left it boundupand came back the next weekend and it developed bends by itself thatdefinitely were not there before. My theory! Nice thing about Epon is that you can gently cold straightenminor bends the next morning after the string is off - especially in thetips.Since Epon has a long working time and Gels in about 4 hours dependson temperature it gives you some flexibility you do not have with other glues. If you have a stubborn bend in a section that you just cannot seemto get straight by rolling it out - let it sit for about 2 1/2 - 3 hours - theEponis thickening and starting to gel. At this time you can roll it again andmostlikely get the bend straight. After Epon has gelled it is really set - a fullcuretakes a week but you at the 90% range which is significant and goodenoughto allow you to work on the rod. I always let it cure overnight in a warmroomand find that it works just fine. If you have a cold shop - give it longer. Chris On Sat, 28 Nov 1998 17:57:29 -0500, Art Port wrote: Chris,Are you sure the string PUT the bends in the rod? I have trouble seeing ifthe rod is straight when the string is ON and then when it's off I oftendiscover that there was a twist or a warp that wasn't apparent due to thewraps "smoothing it out". I use the finest string that Garrisonrecommended; I used to use the heavier string more often but found thatitmade it even harder to tell what was going on. Any suggestions? I neverleft the wraps on for more than a day or two, either.Thanks,Art At 09:58 AM 11/28/98 -0500, you wrote:Fernandothan necessary - I did that once and found that the cord over the periodof the week shrunk and put bends in the blank that had been straight. Chris from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sat Nov 28 17:39:58 1998 Subject: Re: Plane grooving - some observations At 17:13 27/11/98 -0500, you wrote:Don Now I know you're sick. First breaking cane and now impaling! Chris Chris, Have been ID'ed as both crazy and obsessed by a bunch of city folks justlast week. Just 'cause I was fishing in the snow. Used a cane pole though. So you come from a long line of guys who feel the same way. Don from anglport@con2.com Sat Nov 28 18:03:27 1998 Subject: Re: test Greg, Slow list; GREAT FONT!!!!!!Art At 03:52 PM 11/28/98 -0700, you wrote:Is the list just slow or have I been bumped ? from anglport@con2.com Sat Nov 28 18:08:46 1998 Subject: Re: Problems with Shell Epon Chris,Thanks for the info. Just finished up a Sir D, a Driggs, and a Thramer 4'4"with Epon. Was afraid to tweak them too much the next day. Worried thehellout of them at the gluing time and didn't need to do too much after, butit's nice to know how far (and how soon) an experienced hand feels he canpush the stuff. I've bothered Bill Fink so much, I thought I'd better tryto go it alone at least a little!Art At 06:18 PM 11/28/98 -0500, you wrote:ArtIt is cotton and it shrinks. As I said earlier - I had a rod rolledout perfectly straight - it was straight the next day - but I left itbound upand came back the next weekend and it developed bends by itself thatdefinitely were not there before. My theory! Nice thing about Epon is that you can gently cold straightenminor bends the next morning after the string is off - especially in thetips.Since Epon has a long working time and Gels in about 4 hours dependson temperature it gives you some flexibility you do not have with other glues. If you have a stubborn bend in a section that you just cannot seemto get straight by rolling it out - let it sit for about 2 1/2 - 3 hours -the Eponis thickening and starting to gel. At this time you can roll it again andmostlikely get the bend straight. After Epon has gelled it is really set - afull curetakes a week but you at the 90% range which is significant and goodenoughto allow you to work on the rod. I always let it cure overnight in a warmroomand find that it works just fine. If you have a cold shop - give it longer. Chris On Sat, 28 Nov 1998 17:57:29 -0500, Art Port wrote: Chris,Are you sure the string PUT the bends in the rod? I have trouble seeing ifthe rod is straight when the string is ON and then when it's off I oftendiscover that there was a twist or a warp that wasn't apparent due tothewraps "smoothing it out". I use the finest string that Garrisonrecommended; I used to use the heavier string more often but found thatitmade it even harder to tell what was going on. Any suggestions? I neverleft the wraps on for more than a day or two, either.Thanks,Art At 09:58 AM 11/28/98 -0500, you wrote:Fernandothan necessary - I did that once and found that the cord over the periodof the week shrunk and put bends in the blank that had been straight. Chris from anglport@con2.com Sat Nov 28 18:12:06 1998 Subject: Re: Plane grooving - some observations Don,Just saw a quote somewhere. Seems to fit here: "There's a fine linebetween'hobby' and mental illness."Don't know what made me think of it but I've done my share of wadingwherethe snow is 8 or 9 inches thick on the felts of my waders as I walked tomycar. Caught fish, too.Art At 05:19 PM 11/28/98, you wrote:At 17:13 27/11/98 -0500, you wrote:Don Now I know you're sick. First breaking cane and now impaling! Chris Chris, Have been ID'ed as both crazy and obsessed by a bunch of city folks justlast week. Just 'cause I was fishing in the snow. Used a cane pole though. So you come from a long line of guys who feel the same way. Don from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Sat Nov 28 19:13:54 1998 Subject: Re: Guides Can it only be used as a spinning rod or can a flyreel be mounted on thebutt end? Regards, Bob On Fri, 27 Nov 1998, Steve wrote: Bob Perry wrote: Does this rod have the long cork grip/seat ala the old spin/fly rodswiththe two slip rings? Regards, BP2 Bob, I made the grip and reel seat from cork but fashioned it after an ultralight handle. I used slip rings and two bamboo inserts. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from channer@hubwest.com Sat Nov 28 19:51:59 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A92B8100A8; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 18:53:47 MST7MDT Subject: Re: test At 03:52 PM 11/28/98 -0700, you wrote:Is the list just slow or have I been bumped ? Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\ATTACH\test.htm" List must be slow, or sumpin' I thought I got bumped,too.John from channer@hubwest.com Sat Nov 28 19:56:45 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AA44B700AE; Sat, 28 Nov 1998 18:58:28 MST7MDT Subject: Re: Plane grooving - some observations At 05:19 PM 11/28/98, you wrote:At 17:13 27/11/98 -0500, you wrote:Don Now I know you're sick. First breaking cane and now impaling! Chris Chris, Have been ID'ed as both crazy and obsessed by a bunch of city folks justlast week. Just 'cause I was fishing in the snow. Used a cane pole though. So you come from a long line of guys who feel the same way. Don Don;What's crazy about fishing in the snow?As long as it's not a ragingblizzard and the fish are rising, I'll fish ,too. John from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sun Nov 29 03:51:44 1998 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0100 Subject: Horgaard and Arjon Due to computer breakdown I have lost all of my mails, so Chris, pleasere- post Your messageabout Horgaard and Arjon, the latter BTW is swedish. Do we have swedes a board? If so please mail the list information aboutArjon. regards Carsten from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sun Nov 29 03:51:46 1998 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0100 Subject: Montague - decals Ian Did recieve Your fax - thx very much. Am in the process of making a newdecal. regards Carsten from saltwein@swbell.net Sun Nov 29 06:24:12 1998 GAA04942 Subject: Re: Guides Bob Perry wrote: Can it only be used as a spinning rod or can a flyreel be mounted on thebutt end? Regards, Bob On Fri, 27 Nov 1998, Steve wrote: Bob Perry wrote: Does this rod have the long cork grip/seat ala the old spin/fly rodswiththe two slip rings? Regards, BP2 Bob, I made the grip and reel seat from cork but fashioned it after an ultralight handle. I used slip rings and two bamboo inserts. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO It is designed as strictly a spinning rod. Steve from channer@hubwest.com Sun Nov 29 07:10:45 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A84115400A6; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 06:12:33 MST7MDT Subject: Re: Montague - decals At 10:55 AM 11/29/98 +0100, you wrote:Ian Did recieve Your fax - thx very much. Am in the process of making a newdecal. regards Carsten Carsten;This sounds like something you should be sharing with the rest of us. Ifyou know how to reproduce decals, then please let us all in on it. I havere- finished several rods that would have benefitted from a new decal. John from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sun Nov 29 07:43:40 1998 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0100 Subject: Sv: Montague - decals John, Sure I'll share my feeble experiments in making decals. Am in the proces of restoring af Montague Boat rod, (cane rod ofcourse)with little left of thedecal. Ian from NZ was kind enough to fax me a couple of pages describingthe decals and showingblack/white pictures. I simply scan these pictures and start working on them in CorelPhotopaint, Doing it this was ireplace the black pixels with the right colours, which could be traced from the original decal.This is merely a question of sharpening up the drawing and colouring it.This task is finished One thing though: I have found that replacing letters, scanned, with newones from the hugerange of fonts in Corel gives a better result. Now I am entering the tricky part: The background colour in the Montague decals are gold, which cannot bemade on a computer. So Iam left with a decal with the right motive and words, in the right colours.I have printed thedecals on these see-through pieces of plastic used for overheadprojectors, minus the goldcolour. The result is OK - a look alike decal with the right motive, size andso on. I now have the choice of either cutting a piece of gold coloured plasticfilm, as used fordecorative purposes, or painting the reverse side of the decal with liquidgold leaf. Plasticfilm is the easy way, if the necessary glue for bonding film and decaltogether doesn't ruin thedecal. Further experiments are to be done, before I decide on the bestmethod. I hope for this result: Painting the back of the decal with liquid gold,having the print of thefrontside. Gluing the decal onto the rod and then varnishing the wholething, with out the ink from my inkjet printer dissolving.Would sure like to have a colour laser printer for this task. Will keep the list informed of progress or failure. regards, Carsten from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Sun Nov 29 08:16:30 1998 Subject: Re: Guides On Sun, 29 Nov 1998, Steve wrote: Bob Perry wrote: Can it only be used as a spinning rod or can a flyreel be mounted on thebutt end? Regards, Bob On Fri, 27 Nov 1998, Steve wrote: Bob Perry wrote: Does this rod have the long cork grip/seat ala the old spin/fly rodswiththe two slip rings? Regards, BP2 Bob, I made the grip and reel seat from cork but fashioned it after an ultralight handle. I used slip rings and two bamboo inserts. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO It is designed as strictly a spinning rod. Ok then maybe go with simple hard chrome wire frame spinning guidesmodelXSG (unbraced). Regards, Bob from channer@hubwest.com Sun Nov 29 08:21:16 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A8C818600A6; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 07:23:04 MST7MDT Subject: Re: Sv: Montague - decals At 02:47 PM 11/29/98 +0100, you wrote: John, Sure I'll share my feeble experiments in making decals. Am in the proces of restoring af Montague Boat rod, (cane rod ofcourse)with little left of the decal. Ian from NZ was kind enough to fax me acouple of pages describing the decals and showing black/white pictures. I simply scan these pictures and start working on them in CorelPhotopaint, Doing it this was i replace the black pixels with the rightcolours, which could be traced from the original decal. This is merely aquestion of sharpening up the drawing and colouring it. This task isfinished by now, giving a good result. One thing though: I have found that replacing letters, scanned, with newones from the huge range of fonts in Corel gives a better result. Now I am entering the tricky part: The background colour in the Montague decals are gold, which cannot bemade on a computer. So I am left with a decal with the right motive andwords, in the right colours. I have printed the decals on these see-throughpieces of plastic used for overhead projectors, minus the gold colour. Theresult is OK - a look alike decal with the right motive, size and so on. I now have the choice of either cutting a piece of gold coloured plasticfilm, as used for decorative purposes, or painting the reverse side of thedecal with liquid gold leaf. Plastic film is the easy way, if the necessaryglue for bonding film and decal together doesn't ruin the decal. Furtherexperiments are to be done, before I decide on the best method. I hope for this result: Painting the back of the decal with liquid gold,having the print of the frontside. Gluing the decal onto the rod and thenvarnishing the whole thing, with out the ink from my inkjet printerdissolving.Would sure like to have a colour laser printer for this task. Will keep the list informed of progress or failure. regards, Carsten Carsten;Thanks for sharing the info. I was thinking of printing the decal on aclear label and trying that, but I hadn't considered reproducing the goldbackground. You are right, the gold color is a metallic that you can't get from a printer. I have some self-stick gold foil that I got at an autoparts store that might work. John from jfreeman@cyberport.com Sun Nov 29 10:06:35 1998 Subject: Test Testing from richjez@enteract.com Sun Nov 29 10:56:06 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Sv: Montague - decals Speciality office supply stores and catalogues have a foil/paper that ismadeto be printed on with an ink jet printer. I no longer work where I saw thecatalog' but will check with a friend to see if he can find one. I think I sawit in a Moore catalogue among other places.This foil is heat sensitive and can be ironed to apply.Rich At 08:00 AM 11/29/98 +0000, you wrote:At 02:47 PM 11/29/98 +0100, you wrote: Snip Sure I'll share my feeble experiments in making decals. Am in the proces of restoring af Montague Boat rod, (cane rod ofcourse)with little left of the decal. Ian from NZ was kind enough to fax me acouple of pages describing the decals and showing black/white pictures. regards, Carsten *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ /||/______/_||_________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > from jfoster@gte.net Sun Nov 29 10:58:11 1998 Subject: Re: Sv: Montague - decals mac-creator="4D4F5353" Carsten You can by metalic film from the computer store that adds metalic colorsthru a laser printer.it's called "LaserColor". it comes in a pac of about 8 colors, includinggold,silver,red,etc. works great, i've used it quite a bit to do metalicinhancements. regards jerry from jfoster@gte.net Sun Nov 29 10:58:53 1998 Subject: Re: Sv: Montague - decals mac-creator="4D4F5353" buy from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Nov 29 11:00:21 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Sv: Montague - decals Carsten,I don't know if this would work or not but maybe try spraying the face ofyourdecals with an artist's fixative to protect lettering before you try andapplyit to a rod. Just a thought that may work.Bret from richjez@enteract.com Sun Nov 29 11:14:59 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Sv: Montague - decals Jerry is right, it was for lazer printers, not ink jet printers.SorryRich At 08:57 AM 11/29/98 +0000, you wrote:Carsten You can by metalic film from the computer store that adds metalic colorsthru a laser printer.it's called "LaserColor". it comes in a pac of about 8 colors, includinggold,silver,red,etc. works great, i've used it quite a bit to do metalicinhancements. regards jerry *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ /||/______/_||_________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > from rcurry@top.monad.net Sun Nov 29 11:21:55 1998 Subject: Re: Plane grooving - some observations Chris Bogart wrote:Don Now I know you're sick. First breaking cane and now impaling! Chris Chris, Chris,Would you question the sanity of someone who spends long hoursconfinedin a small room reducing wood poles to toothpicks, then trying to makepoles from the toothpicks? Why? Best regards,ReedP.S. - You must try the ice- fishing this year. from anglport@con2.com Sun Nov 29 11:34:05 1998 Subject: A modest proposal All,I have come into a supply of ferrules of random sizes and mixture. I willprovide a list of them at the end. I am NOT trying to sell any of them, Iwant to try to help myself and others in a swap (or multiple swaps). Ibelieve these are "Orvis-type" ferrules (I asked around at the CatskillGathering and John Zimny offered that opinion--apologies, John, if I'mmisquoting you).They are unserrated nickel silver with a stepdown in the middle of themales (you must machine a stepdown approximately 1/2 the way down themale).I have:Size No of Females No of Males9/64 1 4 10/64 2 711/64 1 112/64 4 913/64 0 614/64 4 315/64 3 616/64 7 1017/64 1 118/64 1 2519/64 1 0 You will immediately note the discrepancies in the usefulness of thedistribution!!!!! I am a two-tip kinda guy so my optimum distribution wouldfavor that ratio. I think I'm going to use the one 11 and one 17 on aGillum taper this week, so they may be out of the pool real quick.If anyone has ferrule parts which they would like to TRADE to our mutualbenefits, I would like to suggest that you contact me off-list and we'llswap more details until we're sure we have the "right stuff".If you and I agree, I propose that we each pay our own shipping and simplyagree to return the unusable parts.Artanglport@con2.com from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sun Nov 29 13:22:27 1998 (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Sv: Montague - decals There is a gold overleaf available for laser printers. I have used it andit works fine...only catch is that it adheres to the toner so it would betopside not bottomside of decal, i.e., you'd have to do it first (beforeyour inkjet printing). I got it at Fry's. The procedure is to print normally on a laserprinter, then place (and tape)the gold overleaf over the areas you wish to have gold. Send through thelaserprinter again (printing a blank page...so only heat is applied, notoner). And voila, you've got it!I don't know if any of this will help anyone (as I've not been making myowndecals)...but it is a thought. George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Sv: Montague - decals At 02:47 PM 11/29/98 +0100, you wrote: John, Sure I'll share my feeble experiments in making decals. Am in the proces of restoring af Montague Boat rod, (cane rod ofcourse)with little left of the decal. Ian from NZ was kind enough to fax me acouple of pages describing the decals and showing black/white pictures. I simply scan these pictures and start working on them in CorelPhotopaint, Doing it this was i replace the black pixels with the rightcolours, which could be traced from the original decal. This is merely aquestion of sharpening up the drawing and colouring it. This task isfinished by now, giving a good result. One thing though: I have found that replacing letters, scanned, with newones from the huge range of fonts in Corel gives a better result. Now I am entering the tricky part: The background colour in the Montague decals are gold, which cannot bemade on a computer. So I am left with a decal with the right motive andwords, in the right colours. I have printed the decals on these see-throughpieces of plastic used for overhead projectors, minus the gold colour. Theresult is OK - a look alike decal with the right motive, size and so on. I now have the choice of either cutting a piece of gold coloured plasticfilm, as used for decorative purposes, or painting the reverse side of thedecal with liquid gold leaf. Plastic film is the easy way, if the necessaryglue for bonding film and decal together doesn't ruin the decal. Furtherexperiments are to be done, before I decide on the best method. I hope for this result: Painting the back of the decal with liquid gold,having the print of the frontside. Gluing the decal onto the rod and thenvarnishing the whole thing, with out the ink from my inkjet printerdissolving.Would sure like to have a colour laser printer for this task. Will keep the list informed of progress or failure. regards, Carsten Carsten;Thanks for sharing the info. I was thinking of printing the decal on aclear label and trying that, but I hadn't considered reproducing the goldbackground. You are right, the gold color is a metallic that you can't get from a printer. I have some self-stick gold foil that I got at an autoparts store that might work. John from rmoon@ida.net Sun Nov 29 17:11:13 1998 Subject: Garrison Binder 53748FD03EA92F6892B9DBB7" --------------53748FD03EA92F6892B9DBB7 Sir D, and Bill Fink I have been in a real rush to complete three rods before next week, and Ididn't have the time to do the research on the binder question we werediscussing a few days ago. As I pointed out to you the binding cord on theGarrison Binder goes under the driving belt. The pressure on the glue jointis applied by the drive belt and the binding cord merely holds thecompressedglue joint. In the Smithwich and the Millward binders, the tension orpressure on the glue joint is applied by the tension of the binding thread.This is true as well in hand binding. Unless you are using some mechanicaldevice such as a "SPINNING REEL" for the tension. Bill and Sir D, you bothclaim that you can wind a rod by hand as tightly (or more so) than with abinding machine. I was not in agreement because I felt that the totalpressure by that method could not exceed the breaking strength of thebindingcord. I had in the back of my mind that Garrison had addressed this issue,but I find that he did not. Instead I found my support in Claude Krieder'sbook the Bamboo Rod. Cruder says that "Engineers compute that ten poundsofweight will exert a pressure of two hundred pounds on the glue faces." Now Idon't use ten pounds weight on the binding machine, but I do use as muchastwo pounds which by simple ratio means a twenty pound pressure. Now Iknow mybinding cord does not have a twenty pound binding strength. It isinteresting to note that Holden hand winds, but even he recognized thebreaking strength of the binding cord. He uses a doubled cord. I can see afew holes in my own argument, but I still have a visceral feeling that abinding machine, particularly the Garrison design does a better job ofgettinga tight glue joint than hand winding, and I am sure that we will all agreethat, short of starving the glue joint. a tight joint gives the best result.It is interesting to note that with all of the different kinds of adhesives Ihave used, Titebond, II, Casein, Rescorsinal, Polyurethane, Urac, and withall of the rods I have made, I have never had a glue failure while workingwith a rod, with the exception of the two rods glues with Urac thatdelaminated. I still say the glue is no damned good. Anyway, I just wanted to give my perspective. Ralph --------------53748FD03EA92F6892B9DBB7 Sir D, and Bill Fink I have been in a real rush to complete three rods before next week,and I didn't have the time to do the research on the binder question we pressureon the glue joint is applied by the drive belt and the binding cord merely binders, the tension or pressure on the glue joint is applied by the tension Unless you are using some mechanical device such as a "SPINNING REEL"for not in agreement because I felt that the total pressure by that method in the back of my mind that Garrison had addressed this issue, but I find pounds of weight will exert a pressure of two hundred pounds on the glue but I do use as much as two pounds which by simple ratio means a twenty hand winds, but even he recognized the breaking strength of the binding holesin my own argument, but I still have a visceral feeling that a bindingmachine, particularly the Garrison design does a better job of gettinga tight glue joint than hand winding, and I am sure that we will all agreethat, short of starving the glue joint. a tight joint gives the best It is interesting to note that with all of the different kinds of adhesives and with all of the rods I have made, I have never had a glue failure while Ralph --------------53748FD03EA92F6892B9DBB7-- from ragnarig@integrityol.com Sun Nov 29 17:42:42 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id AE2912C30124; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 15:52:09 PDT Subject: Re: A modest proposal Dear Art I believe I might be interested in some of these ferrules but the followingstatement puzzles me: They are unserrated nickel silver with a stepdown in the middle of themales (you must machine a stepdown approximately 1/2 the way downthemale). Forgive me if I'm being thick, but does this mean that the ferrules areunfinished?Are you talking about the stepdown that goes to the cane or the one thatgoes to the coupling? Also, do I understand correctly: you have seven-hundred-ten 16/64ferrulesand a hundred-twenty-five of the 18/64 ? If so, I must start lookingaround for trading stock. Right now I don't have a lot of ferrule parts(I'll check and let you know what I find) and all I can think of are thefollowing: An old Medalist 1494 reelA couple of graphite rodsAn extra pair of Euro blue jay wingsA six-foot banty rod, "student model"A double-taper #11 Olympic brand floating line, new in packageA three-piece 8-footer (pretty nice action) I made out of good fittings andmismatched cane sectionsPolar bear hairSeal furA new WF-8-F Supreme 2 line, orange, in boxA US Army fly-tying manual, good conditionSome phosphor bronze rod for making ferrules, couple of sizesA Chinese medalist reel, ex. cond.Lots of tools and stuff which I can detail or expand upon if you like If there's anything you are looking for, give me a holler. If these arequality step-down ferrules, I can sure use them, my lathe being broken andnot likely to be fixed any time soon. And I make big rods with bigferrules, so those 16s can definitely find a good home. I'll relay this toJohn Cooper, too, as he is into the same kind of thing and always on themake for ferrules. Look forward to hearing from you.Davy from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Nov 29 17:43:14 1998 Mon, 30 Nov 1998 07:43:03 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Sv: Montague - decals wugate.wustl.edu id RAA10007 On Sun, 29 Nov 1998, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Carsten_J=F8rgensen?= wrote: John, Sure I'll share my feeble experiments in making decals. Am in the proces of restoring af Montague Boat rod, (cane rod ofcourse)with little left ofthe decal. Ian from NZ was kind enough to fax me a couple of pagesdescribing the decals andshowing black/white pictures. I simply scan these pictures and start working on them in CorelPhotopaint, Doing it this wasi replace the black pixels with the right colours, which could be traced from the originaldecal. This is merely a question of sharpening up the drawing andcolouring it. This task isfinished by now, giving a good result. One thing though: I have found that replacing letters, scanned, with newones from the hugerange of fonts in Corel gives a better result. Carsten, do you do $100 dollar notes? :-) /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sun Nov 29 18:30:20 1998 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0100 Subject: Sv: Sv: Montague - decals -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----Fra: Tony Young Til: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Emne: Re: Sv: Montague - decals On Sun, 29 Nov 1998, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Carsten_J=F8rgensen?= wrote: John, Sure I'll share my feeble experiments in making decals. Am in the proces of restoring af Montague Boat rod, (cane rod ofcourse)with little left ofthe decal. Ian from NZ was kind enough to fax me a couple of pagesdescribing the decals andshowing black/white pictures. I simply scan these pictures and start working on them in CorelPhotopaint, Doing it this wasi replace the black pixels with the right colours, which could be traced from the originaldecal. This is merely a question of sharpening up the drawing andcolouring it. This task isfinished by now, giving a good result. One thing though: I have found that replacing letters, scanned, with newones from the hugerange of fonts in Corel gives a better result. Carsten, do you do $100 dollar notes? :-) /***********************************************************************/Tony Young Tony I would like to buy some rods and stuff from you, paying in cash. Howabout it? Carsten from Canerods@aol.com Sun Nov 29 19:14:04 1998 Subject: Parts needed All, I'm working on an idea to make jasper thread and need some pulleys andrubberband belts. Anyone one have an online site that carries this type ofitems? Hobby companies or surplus sites? Don Burns from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Nov 29 20:03:41 1998 Subject: Re: Garrison Binder Ralph,I've used Urac exclusively for the last 20+ years with no delaminationsexcept those I attribute to abuse or old Urac that I used when I was in ahurry and didn't wait for delivery of new stuff from Iron Mtn. The abuse Irefer to was on the Gardiner after I caught my fly in a tree limb for theumpteenth time and I jerked the rod rather heavily. I still have the rod,repaired w/ Urac - FWIWBest regards,Hank Woolman. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Nov 29 20:03:51 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Sv: Montague - decals Tony,Why be a piker-go for $1000 dollar notesRegards,Hank W. from BarbRain@aol.com Sun Nov 29 20:15:28 1998 Subject: Re: silk furled leaders Tom, I would love to learn the process and it would make a veryinterestingdemo. By the way, have you had the nerve to use those chamber reamers? HappyHolidays! George Rainville from jaquin@netsync.net Sun Nov 29 20:26:36 1998 quartz.netsync.net(8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA15527 for ;Sun, 29 Nov 1998 21:26:31-0500 Subject: Expoy Art Port wrote: Chris,Are you sure the string PUT the bends in the rod? I have trouble seeing ifthe rod is straight when the string is ON and then when it's off I oftendiscover that there was a twist or a warp that wasn't apparent due tothewraps "smoothing it out". I use the finest string that Garrisonrecommended; I used to use the heavier string more often but found thatitmade it even harder to tell what was going on. Any suggestions? I neverleft the wraps on for more than a day or two, either.Thanks,Art At 09:58 AM 11/28/98 -0500, you wrote:Fernandothan necessary - I did that once and found that the cord over the periodof the week shrunk and put bends in the blank that had been straight. Chris Has anyone used Bahlen T-88 Epoxy. was talking to a woodworker thisafternoon, and he uses the T-88 for gluing joints on desk tops etc. Says its available through most woodworking catlogs. jerry from anglport@con2.com Sun Nov 29 20:46:19 1998 Subject: Re: Parts needed Don, Try http://www.smallparts.com/ They have a great little catalog and have been mentioned on herebefore.Someone gets a plastic drive-belt for his binder from them. Mycatalog isI-don't-know-where right now but I located the site and saw that you canatleast skim their stuff on-line and request a catalog there.Happy hunting,Art At 08:13 PM 11/29/98 EST, you wrote:All, I'm working on an idea to make jasper thread and need some pulleys andrubberband belts. Anyone one have an online site that carries this type ofitems? Hobby companies or surplus sites? Don Burns from briansr@point-net.com Sun Nov 29 21:45:05 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Montague - decals Hi Carsten Another possibility is acrylic or enamel modeler's paints and air brushingthat onto clear decal film. The rest of the image can be "printed" onto theclear decalinstead of your clear plastichope that helps Brian Sturrock----- Original Message----- Subject: Sv: Montague - decals John, Sure I'll share my feeble experiments in making decals. Am in the proces of restoring af Montague Boat rod, (cane rod ofcourse)with little left of the decal. Ian from NZ was kind enough to fax me acouple of pages describing the decals and showing black/white pictures. I simply scan these pictures and start working on them in CorelPhotopaint,Doing it this was i replace the black pixels with the right colours, whichcould be traced from the original decal. This is merely a question ofsharpening up the drawing and colouring it. This task is finished by now,giving a good result. One thing though: I have found that replacing letters, scanned, with newones from the huge range of fonts in Corel gives a better result. Now I am entering the tricky part: The background colour in the Montague decals are gold, which cannot bemadeon a computer. So I am left with a decal with the right motive and words,inthe right colours. I have printed the decals on these see-through pieces ofplastic used for overhead projectors, minus the gold colour. The result isOK - a look alike decal with the right motive, size and so on. I now have the choice of either cutting a piece of gold coloured plasticfilm, as used for decorative purposes, or painting the reverse side of thedecal with liquid gold leaf. Plastic film is the easy way, if the necessaryglue for bonding film and decal together doesn't ruin the decal. Furtherexperiments are to be done, before I decide on the best method. I hope for this result: Painting the back of the decal with liquid gold,having the print of the frontside. Gluing the decal onto the rod and thenvarnishing the whole thing, with out the ink from my inkjet printerdissolving.Would sure like to have a colour laser printer for this task. Will keep the list informed of progress or failure. regards, Carsten from Canerods@aol.com Sun Nov 29 21:46:06 1998 Subject: Re: Parts needed In a message dated 11/29/98 6:47:49 PM Pacific Standard Time,anglport@con2.com writes: http://www.smallparts.com/ Thanks, Don Burns from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Nov 29 23:27:23 1998 Mon, 30 Nov 1998 13:27:10 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Sv: Sv: Montague - decals Carsten, do you do $100 dollar notes? :-) Tony I would like to buy some rods and stuff from you, paying in cash. How about it? Carsten Arh..err, ummmmmm ;-) /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Nov 29 23:29:39 1998 Mon, 30 Nov 1998 13:29:30 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Sv: Montague - decals On Sun, 29 Nov 1998 FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: Tony,Why be a piker-go for $1000 dollar notesRegards,Hank W. We don't have 'em. Hundreds are as high as they go. Guess you use cheques or cows and chickens past that. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Mon Nov 30 07:53:09 1998 IAA11892 Subject: RE: Montague - decals Will this cause some type of problem. Isn't a rod with original decalworthmore than one without. Soon all will have a decal.Al Hanzich732- 878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Sunday, November 29, 1998 1:50 AM Subject: Re: Montague - decals At 10:55 AM 11/29/98 +0100, you wrote:Ian Did recieve Your fax - thx very much. Am in the process ofmaking a newdecal. regards Carsten Carsten;This sounds like something you should be sharing with therest of us. Ifyou know how to reproduce decals, then please let us all inon it. I havere- finished several rods that would have benefitted from anew decal. John from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Mon Nov 30 09:47:35 1998 Subject: Re: Plane grooving - some observations Chris,Would you question the sanity of someone who spends long hoursconfinedin a small room reducing wood poles to toothpicks, then trying to makepoles from the toothpicks? Why? Best regards,ReedP.S. - You must try the ice- fishing this year. Reed, Tried all kinds of fishing including ice fishing - trout fishing I canunderstand - if you catch one - least you can eat it - but ice - how do youcook it? Don from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Mon Nov 30 09:47:37 1998 Subject: Re: Parts needed At 20:13 29/11/98 EST, you wrote:All, I'm working on an idea to make jasper thread and need some pulleys andrubberband belts. Anyone one have an online site that carries this type ofitems? Hobby companies or surplus sites? Don Burns Donm Don't know exactly what rubber band belts are but if you're looking fordrive belts, I've had a lot of success with 1/8" neoprene "O" rings. Youcan get them in most sizes. Large rubber bands are used by some of theguysthat fly model planes. A good craft store may have them. Don from bills@nwlink.com Mon Nov 30 10:02:57 1998 Subject: Re: Garrison Binder How old is OLD for URAC? Opened and unopened? I know it has a self lifebutmy cans do not show an expiration date.Bill-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Garrison Binder Ralph,I've used Urac exclusively for the last 20+ years with no delaminationsexcept those I attribute to abuse or old Urac that I used when I was in ahurry and didn't wait for delivery of new stuff from Iron Mtn. The abuse Irefer to was on the Gardiner after I caught my fly in a tree limb for theumpteenth time and I jerked the rod rather heavily. I still have the rod,repaired w/ Urac - FWIWBest regards,Hank Woolman. from RVenneri@aol.com Mon Nov 30 10:14:56 1998 Subject: Re: Guides To all who requested info on Guides, I have taken some dimensions and here they are. .984 1.500 .046.635 .977 .036.486 .831 .032.386 .635 .028.315 .539 ..028 tip top.192 ring dia.093 tip dim These Guides are Pucci guides. They are made from what looks likechromewire. They are pretty nicely made and I was told they are very hard andwillhold up well.They are very light wt. the whole set weighs less than one reg double footspin guide. I really am not looking to make any money on these so any one who isinterested make me an offer for a set you can design the set yourself ofanycombo. Keep in mind that I am just starting out in bamboo rodmaking haveforms, plane, need stones hock blades, and almost everything else. Any one who wants to offer cashthat's OK too. Hope this was not out of line for list posting. if so let meknow and I am sorry Best Regards,Bob V from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Mon Nov 30 12:57:30 1998 Subject: Re: Plane grooving - some observations Don,Put it in a pan by itself. Bring to a slow boil. Add coffee or tea toflavor. Pour in a cup and add cream and sugar to taste. You can alsouse cocoa mix instead of coffee or tea. Sometimes with coffee or teasome people like to add a little bourbon or other spirits. Especiallywhile out ice fishing. This is done with the first catch. With Coccayou can add peppermint schnapps. Grew up in Michigan. Did a lot of that ice fishing. Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net RO>Reed, RO>Tried all kinds of fishing including ice fishing - trout fishing I canRO>understand - if you catch one - least you can eat it - but ice - how doyouRO>cook it? RO>Don from gwbarnes@gwi.net Mon Nov 30 13:41:09 1998 Subject: Re: Parts needed Check rubber supply firms in your area. Most of them carry variousdimensionsof round rubber belting that can be joined together with moderate heat toproduce a rubber drive belt. Ok for driving a pulley but too coarse for thedrive belt on a rod wrapping machine. George B. Don Andersen wrote: At 20:13 29/11/98 EST, you wrote:All, I'm working on an idea to make jasper thread and need some pulleys andrubberband belts. Anyone one have an online site that carries this typeofitems? Hobby companies or surplus sites? Don Burns Donm Don't know exactly what rubber band belts are but if you're looking fordrive belts, I've had a lot of success with 1/8" neoprene "O" rings. Youcan get them in most sizes. Large rubber bands are used by some of theguysthat fly model planes. A good craft store may have them. Don from dr_matro@cyberramp.net Mon Nov 30 15:25:40 1998 ESMTP id PAA26400 Subject: Re: Montague - decals mac-creator="4D4F5353" Don't know how ethical it is, but I know a method of making custom drytransfers and water slide-off decals. Any color. Foils, metalics, even white. And as many colors as needed. The graphic arts community uses this stuff to make packaging foradvertising and it's called Matrocolor, INT, Opticolor.....a processwith many names. If you're close to a big city (a big advertisingsubculture is best), find what's called a "service bureau" and ask ifthey do dry transfers or rub-down decals. If they've been around 5 years or more, they'll know what you're talking about. It can get a littleexpensive, but the results, depending on quality of artwork, can be"dead-on". Hope this helps Ken Cole from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Nov 30 17:22:02 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Montague - decals/ ETHICS I may be wrong but the thing about the ethics of making reproductiondecalsmade me think about reproduction parts for other restoration projectssuch ascars. When I used to restore cars some 20+ years ago we got reproductionpanels from such places as J.C Whitney and others and now there areplacesthat sell reproduction parts for every kind of car you can think of. I don'tthink there is anything wrong with someone reproducing such things forrestoration purposes as long as they are mirror images of the originals. Itwould be like putting on a ferrule that someone made to match the originalorthe rewrapping of a rod with same color (kind) of silk that was not fromtheoriginal manufacturer. As long as this is passed off as a refinished rodandnot a new rod I see no problem with ethics here. Just my opinion and Ihopeit makes some sense.Bret from pdcorlis@nidc.edu Mon Nov 30 17:39:02 1998 with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 15:39:54 -0800 Subject: Re: Montague - decals/ ETHICS As always, questions of ethics rest on the intent of person applying thedecal (or whatever...).Nothing wrong with having decals available for any rod as long as therestorer is onlyinterested in it's "look" and not for any calims of increased value andauthenticity... if yousee what I mean. Perhaps a line drawn through the decal design would help destinguish anyre- decaled rods fromauthentic rods in the market. Just a thoughtPhil from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Nov 30 18:37:30 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Montague - decals/ ETHICS OK say the original decal is intact but the rod needs restored doesrestoringit with original type wraps, guides, thread etc. make it more valuable? Itisstill a restored rod with not the original wraps etc. So if replacing thesethings with new stuff is OK then what is wrong with using a reproductiondecalif it like all the rest of the stuff is authentic looking to the originalstuff. Say Bob Summers rewraps, reguides and revarnishes a Payne usingoriginal color wraps etc. it is still restored and being passed off that way.So my point is if there is someone who is going to make original lookingdecals for restorations I think there is a place for it. I don't think it isanymore unethical than replacing the rest of the stuff on the rod(s) in arestoration project.Bret from anglport@con2.com Mon Nov 30 19:18:01 1998 Subject: Re: Montague - decals/ ETHICS All,To put a real-life spin on this thing; if I'm not mistaken, Montagues go rods' prices by calling them Montagues? Isn't that a little like cuttingthe corners off twenty-dollar bills and replacing them with fives to makecounterfeits?Just a thought (I know we're talking principle here, but I couldn't resist).Art At 07:34 PM 11/30/98 EST, you wrote:OK say the original decal is intact but the rod needs restored doesrestoringit with original type wraps, guides, thread etc. make it more valuable?It isstill a restored rod with not the original wraps etc. So if replacing thesethings with new stuff is OK then what is wrong with using a reproductiondecalif it like all the rest of the stuff is authentic looking to the originalstuff. Say Bob Summers rewraps, reguides and revarnishes a Payne usingoriginal color wraps etc. it is still restored and being passed off thatway.So my point is if there is someone who is going to make original lookingdecals for restorations I think there is a place for it. I don't think it isanymore unethical than replacing the rest of the stuff on the rod(s) in arestoration project.Bret from bacon@idt.net Mon Nov 30 19:57:28 1998 Subject: Re: thank you David wrote: have, so far,.. split,removed the nodes with a little baseball bat (very good for agressivetendencies), Jean Oh, how I wish I lived a little closer to the place where you are doingthis. I really wish I could see it! They say it won't be long before we are all in real-time visualcommunication on these things, but my imagination has a heyday when Ireadthings like this. OK Jean, how are you flattening nodes with a baseballbat? hoping to do this for funwhen i retire! I've got to think you'll be having a lot more fun than me! Davydavy,used the baseball bat (a baby baseball bat) on the INSIDE. sorry forthe confusion.jean from bacon@idt.net Mon Nov 30 20:11:51 1998 Subject: Re: thank you David wrote: have, so far,.. split,removed the nodes with a little baseball bat (very good for agressivetendencies), Jean Oh, how I wish I lived a little closer to the place where you are doingthis. I really wish I could see it! They say it won't be long before we are all in real-time visualcommunication on these things, but my imagination has a heyday when Ireadthings like this. OK Jean, how are you flattening nodes with a baseballbat? hoping to do this for funwhen i retire! I've got to think you'll be having a lot more fun than me! Davydave,sorry for the confusion! after i split the culm, my instructor showedme how to use a tiny baseball bat to knock out the INSIDE of the nodes.zip, zip, right on down the line, really. maybe i'm using the wrongwords, but..where the nodes are on the outside, it goes right through tothe otherside of the stalk of bamboo. that's what i meant, sorry if iwas not accurate in my description. the outside nodes are rather moredelicate and from what i have learned must be treated gently to allowthem to maintain their strength. those i sanded lightly and steamed tostraighten.sincerely,jean from rmoon@ida.net Mon Nov 30 20:14:33 1998 Subject: Re: Montague - decals/ ETHICS Art Port wrote: All,To put a real-life spin on this thing; if I'm not mistaken, Montagues go hisrods' prices by calling them Montagues? Isn't that a little like cuttingthe corners off twenty-dollar bills and replacing them with fives tomakecounterfeits?Just a thought (I know we're talking principle here, but I couldn't resist).Art At 07:34 PM 11/30/98 EST, you wrote:OK say the original decal is intact but the rod needs restored doesrestoringit with original type wraps, guides, thread etc. make it more valuable?It isstill a restored rod with not the original wraps etc. So if replacingthesethings with new stuff is OK then what is wrong with using areproductiondecalif it like all the rest of the stuff is authentic looking to the originalstuff. Say Bob Summers rewraps, reguides and revarnishes a Payneusingoriginal color wraps etc. it is still restored and being passed off thatway.So my point is if there is someone who is going to make original lookingdecals for restorations I think there is a place for it. I don't think it isanymore unethical than replacing the rest of the stuff on the rod(s) in arestoration project.Bret Or we could relabel Montagues as Dickersons or Paynes. I don't think it isagood idea.Ralph from Canerods@aol.com Mon Nov 30 20:33:31 1998 Subject: Test No mail today - so I'm testing Don B. from moran@lincoln.midcoast.com Mon Nov 30 20:36:32 1998 (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA05883 for ;Mon, 30 Nov 1998 21:36:20- 0500 Subject: test boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE1CA1.0E2B8C80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE1CA1.0E2B8C80 test ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE1CA1.0E2B8C80 test ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE1CA1.0E2B8C80-- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Nov 30 21:16:36 1998 Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:15:10 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Montague - decals/ ETHICS On Mon, 30 Nov 1998, Art Port wrote: All,To put a real-life spin on this thing; if I'm not mistaken, Montagues go hisrods' prices by calling them Montagues? Isn't that a little like cuttingthe corners off twenty-dollar bills and replacing them with fives tomakecounterfeits?Just a thought (I know we're talking principle here, but I couldn't resist).Art Wow! I'm getting more and more out of this thread all the time. What type of stick tape do you use?I read the Spanish empire was run on counterfiet coin. There have been a few Dutch boats carrying Spanish gold coins bump into Australia over the years. What is being found reguarly in these old wrecks is a gold coin with a gold vaneer over a lead or copper core. This seems to have happened for a couple of hundred years according to the coins vintage. These were officialy minted coins too, not just individuals with a short life expendency. Of course, these weren't being used by honest people, just the gov of the day and passed off as the real thing. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Nov 30 21:22:42 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Garrison Binder Bill,I keep the Urac in my cellar which is dark and moderately cool in thesummer but I try not to use it after its been stored over 6 months.Hank W. from ragnarig@integrityol.com Mon Nov 30 21:29:41 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A5061B60014C; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 19:39:50 PDT Subject: Re: thank you boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0105_01BE1C97.65DA5740" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0105_01BE1C97.65DA5740 Oh, you were knocking the dams out with the bat! I have learned a new =technique. Me, I use a putter. ;-) Davy used the baseball bat (a baby baseball bat) on the INSIDE. sorry forthe confusion.jean ------=_NextPart_000_0105_01BE1C97.65DA5740 have learned a new = putter. ;-) Davy ------=_NextPart_000_0105_01BE1C97.65DA5740-- from channer@hubwest.com Mon Nov 30 22:25:08 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A00D23F00A4; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 21:26:53 MST7MDT Subject: Re: Montague - decals/ ETHICS At 06:19 PM 11/30/98 EST, you wrote:I may be wrong but the thing about the ethics of making reproductiondecalsmade me think about reproduction parts for other restoration projectssuch ascars. When I used to restore cars some 20+ years ago we gotreproductionpanels from such places as J.C Whitney and others and now there areplacesthat sell reproduction parts for every kind of car you can think of. I don'tthink there is anything wrong with someone reproducing such things forrestoration purposes as long as they are mirror images of the originals. Itwould be like putting on a ferrule that someone made to match theoriginal orthe rewrapping of a rod with same color (kind) of silk that was not fromtheoriginal manufacturer. As long as this is passed off as a refinished rodandnot a new rod I see no problem with ethics here. Just my opinion and Ihopeit makes some sense.Bret Bret;Never considered pawning it off as original, but Montagues, Duntons andsome others have no other form of identification on them other than thedecal. Case in point: I have 2 identical rods in to re-finish, both arecheap junk bottom end Montagues, but one of them was sold by SewellDunton,which I can tell from the ghosts of the decal shape and position and thewrap pattern above the winding check. I will naturally tell the ownerswhatI have been able to discern about their rods, but it would be a nice touchto be able to put the decal back on for future owners. I don't think theseparticular 2 rods would be worth more than about 5 bucks for both ofthem,but I am sure that eventually I will run into some that are worth theeffort. John (I guess I am agreeing with you) Channer from morten@flash.net Mon Nov 30 22:32:52 1998 Subject: Re: Montague - decals/ ETHICS I had a Challenger (car) during my college years and it was a piece ofjunk. Yesterday I went to a car show and saw a perfect sample of thesame car. Somebody next to me said it was'nt real, that it was a clone.It was what I allways wanted, but could not afford. It looked very real.If I make a copy of lets say a T&T, and try to sell it as that, thenit's a crime. However if I restore an old T&T to perfect condition, i'tscalled a good job. Do whatever it takes to get satisfied with theresults.Sorry about the rambling.Morten Lovstad-- http://www.flash.net/~morten/index.htm from channer@hubwest.com Mon Nov 30 23:05:51 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A99A1E700AE; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 22:07:38 MST7MDT Subject: REC and Tony Young Guys;I have tried to email REC and Tony Young, but it keeps coming back asundeliverable. If anyone knows if REC has a new email address, please letme know, and Tony, please email me direct, I want to compliment you onthenice ferrules. John Channer from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Mon Nov 30 23:28:28 1998 (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP Subject: Dunton (was Re: Montague - decals/ ETHICS) Can you post/e-mail a photo of the Dunton? I am curious what a "factorymade" one looks like (I bought a couple of Dunton blanks from T&T and amcurious if the reel seats T&T sold me for them were the same as used onfactory Duntons. Also curious on wrap colors.). TIAGeorge Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Montague - decals/ ETHICS At 06:19 PM 11/30/98 EST, you wrote:I may be wrong but the thing about the ethics of making reproductiondecalsmade me think about reproduction parts for other restoration projectssuchascars. When I used to restore cars some 20+ years ago we gotreproductionpanels from such places as J.C Whitney and others and now there areplacesthat sell reproduction parts for every kind of car you can think of. Idon'tthink there is anything wrong with someone reproducing such things forrestoration purposes as long as they are mirror images of the originals.Itwould be like putting on a ferrule that someone made to match theoriginalorthe rewrapping of a rod with same color (kind) of silk that was not fromtheoriginal manufacturer. As long as this is passed off as a refinished rodandnot a new rod I see no problem with ethics here. Just my opinion and Ihopeit makes some sense.Bret Bret;Never considered pawning it off as original, but Montagues, Duntons andsome others have no other form of identification on them other than thedecal. Case in point: I have 2 identical rods in to re-finish, both arecheap junk bottom end Montagues, but one of them was sold by SewellDunton,which I can tell from the ghosts of the decal shape and position and thewrap pattern above the winding check. I will naturally tell the ownerswhatI have been able to discern about their rods, but it would be a nice touchto be able to put the decal back on for future owners. I don't think theseparticular 2 rods would be worth more than about 5 bucks for both ofthem,but I am sure that eventually I will run into some that are worth theeffort. John (I guess I am agreeing with you) Channer