from channer@hubwest.com Tue Dec 1 02:49:56 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AE1E165014A; Tue, 01 Dec 1998 01:51:42 MST7MDT Subject: Re: Dunton (was Re: Montague - decals/ ETHICS) At 09:35 PM 11/30/98 -0800, you wrote:Can you post/e-mail a photo of the Dunton? I am curious what a "factorymade" one looks like (I bought a couple of Dunton blanks from T&T and amcurious if the reel seats T&T sold me for them were the same as used onfactory Duntons. Also curious on wrap colors.). TIAGeorge Bourke George;Sorry, but I don't have a scanner. This rod is a ringer for a bottom endMontague with a 7" straight grip made of 1" corks and the all metalMontague screw lock reel seat with the wide knurled lock ring and aformedpocket attatched to it. It is the upper seat pictured on page 139. Thereason I know (or think) it is a Dunton rather than a Montague is that Ialso have another rod in the rack right next to it that has differentghosts on it right above the grip. Sinclairs book show the Dunton rodhaving a single wrap about 1/4" wide at the winding check with an ovalshaped decal applied at a slight angle. The other rod has the decal at theusual Montague angle with a hook keeper and a signature wrap. What fewwraps were left on this rod were orange and they were spaced diffentlyfromthe Montague. Both rods have the chrome plated brass rolled welt ferruleswith a slight waist. Curiously, the Montague was wrapped in a ghastlymulticolored thread, not jasper, but like the color on the spool changedevery few inches to give the wraps a series of bands of different colors.As much as I can't stand jasper wraps, this is even worse. After I strippedthe Dunton rod I was surprized to see that the cane work actually wasn'ttoo bad, all the joints are tight with no visisble glue lines and the nodesaren't next to one another and they are flat across. I have seen about adozen H-I's and the cane work on all of them was much worse. Both theserods had 6 snakes and a stripper. Hope this is of some help.John from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Tue Dec 1 06:47:21 1998 HAA15834 Subject: RE: Montague - decals/ ETHICS Your point well taken. It mentions the appropriate thing to do "AS LONGASTHIS IS PASSED OFF AS A REFINISHED (DECAL A REPLICA) ROD"! Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, November 30, 1998 6:20 PM Subject: Re: Montague - decals/ ETHICS I may be wrong but the thing about the ethics of makingreproduction decalsmade me think about reproduction parts for other restorationprojects such ascars. When I used to restore cars some 20+ years ago we gotreproductionpanels from such places as J.C Whitney and others and nowthere are placesthat sell reproduction parts for every kind of car you canthink of. I don'tthink there is anything wrong with someone reproducing suchthings forrestoration purposes as long as they are mirror images ofthe originals. Itwould be like putting on a ferrule that someone made tomatch the original orthe rewrapping of a rod with same color (kind) of silk thatwas not from theoriginal manufacturer. As long as this is passed off as arefinished rod andnot a new rod I see no problem with ethics here. Just myopinion and I hopeit makes some sense.Bret from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Tue Dec 1 06:51:33 1998 HAA16306 Subject: RE: Montague - decals/ ETHICS Of course there is a place for it. Restoration means to restore to originalcondition, BUT RESTORED BY SOMEONE OTHER THANNTHE ORIGINAL MAKER. A PAYNErestored by Payne should be sold as restored not original! Picky, yes, butlook at some of the catalogs and you will see such things as a Dickerson, 2tips, One tip made at a later date. WHY? Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, November 30, 1998 7:35 PM Subject: Re: Montague - decals/ ETHICS OK say the original decal is intact but the rod needsrestored does restoringit with original type wraps, guides, thread etc. make itmore valuable? It isstill a restored rod with not the original wraps etc. So ifreplacing thesethings with new stuff is OK then what is wrong with using areproduction decalif it like all the rest of the stuff is authentic looking tothe originalstuff. Say Bob Summers rewraps, reguides and revarnishes aPayne usingoriginal color wraps etc. it is still restored and beingpassed off that way.So my point is if there is someone who is going to makeoriginal lookingdecals for restorations I think there is a place for it. Idon't think it isanymore unethical than replacing the rest of the stuff onthe rod(s) in arestoration project.Bret from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Tue Dec 1 07:00:20 1998 IAA17113 Subject: RE: Montague - decals/ ETHICS Your correct Art, but what if we started to do the same with reel seats,having the PAYNE LOGO placed on a compatible reel seat, etc.? Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, November 30, 1998 8:59 PM Subject: Re: Montague - decals/ ETHICS Art Port wrote: All,To put a real-life spin on this thing; if I'm notmistaken, Montagues go be raising hisrods' prices by calling them Montagues? Isn't that alittle like cuttingthe corners off twenty-dollar bills and replacing themwith fives to makecounterfeits?Just a thought (I know we're talking principle here, but Icouldn't resist).Art At 07:34 PM 11/30/98 EST, you wrote:OK say the original decal is intact but the rod needsrestored does restoringit with original type wraps, guides, thread etc. make itmore valuable?It isstill a restored rod with not the original wraps etc. Soif replacing thesethings with new stuff is OK then what is wrong with usinga reproductiondecalif it like all the rest of the stuff is authentic lookingto the originalstuff. Say Bob Summers rewraps, reguides and revarnishesa Payne usingoriginal color wraps etc. it is still restored and beingpassed off that way.So my point is if there is someone who is going to makeoriginal lookingdecals for restorations I think there is a place for it.I don't think it isanymore unethical than replacing the rest of the stuff onthe rod(s) in arestoration project.Bret Or we could relabel Montagues as Dickersons or Paynes. Idon't think it is agood idea.Ralph from Canerods@aol.com Tue Dec 1 08:20:38 1998 Subject: Re: REC and Tony Young In a message dated 11/30/98 9:09:09 PM Pacific Standard Time,channer@hubwest.com writes: Guys;I have tried to email REC and Tony Young, but it keeps coming back asundeliverable. If anyone knows if REC has a new email address, pleaseletme know, and Tony, please email me direct, I want to compliment you onthenice ferrules. John Channer John, I've posted several posts to Tony this week - all got there. I don't know ifREC has a new address. I suspect that your email system was having a baddayand you should repost to both. Don Burns from Canerods@aol.com Tue Dec 1 08:21:04 1998 Subject: Re: Montague - decals/ ETHICS All, I have thought about removing labels from scrap rods and reapplying themtoother rods, but is this any better than a new label? Why not make a slight change to the label? Add a spot/dot or other form of "restored" ID - something so that the labelwould be easy to tell from the real thing. Maybe make the Montague"chicken"face the other direction or change the spelling to "Montaque". This would this allow you to have a labeled rod that could be easily ID'd byanyone as a Montague and yet could not be passed off as an originalunrestoredrod. My $0.02. Don Burns from Jfarthing@compuserve.com Tue Dec 1 08:53:19 1998 Subject: mail order catalogs? All, I have an old bamboo fly rod of unknown origin that is very straight andhas two tips sections. I would like to restore it myself using newcomponents if possible. I will need to replace all of the guides,ferrules, grip and reel seat. It will also need refinishing. Pleaseadvise if there are any mail order companies that sell nickel sliverferrules, guides, seats, etc. especially for restoring old bamoo fly rods. Thanks for any advice, John from ragnarig@integrityol.com Tue Dec 1 08:54:45 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A56C18820146; Tue, 01 Dec 1998 07:04:12 PDT Subject: Re: Montague - decals/ ETHICS I think we may be obsessing a bit here. There is no other area, at leastthat I know of, in which there would be "ethical questions" as regards therestoration of an original article to its original condition. Making aforgery quality decal is only a bad idea if it is to be used in a forgery.Markings, fittings and finish may and should be brought as close aspossibleto the standard intended by the original maker. Authorized repairmen areregularly supplied with decals, colors and other distinctive markings toaidin the restoration of everything from electric guitars to schoolbuses,usually by the manufacturer. The question as to whether a restored item is sold as restored, ratherthanoriginal, is largely moot. I recently had a conversation with a conservatorof a large museum regarding the restoration work done to a self-portraitofa famous painter. Because the repairs were done with such skill and didnotappreciably detract from the work, its value has not been effected at all.Things like these are sold and resold many times and the restorersintentions are quickly lost. If the restoration is acceptable to thepurchaser, the job is properly done. If any aspect of the restoration isoffered to a subsequent buyer who is better informed or possessed ofhigherstandards, he or she will pass. Additional markings or labels, such asrepairmen discretely affix to old master violins, would spoil theappearanceof a rod and therefore not be appropriate. I think that because of the unnaturally high prices being asked- and paid- details which may effect some aspect of its "mystique" or something. Myfeeling is that, when a market gets to this point, we might be welladvisedto take a deep breath- or a deep swig- of reality and get on with it. As tothe question of whether any conceivable Montague is worthy of so muchfuss... Davy from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Tue Dec 1 09:11:00 1998 (modemcable221.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.09.21.23.34)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, Subject: Step-down ferrules BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_ueM23dVjYuHkivd66w1CeQ)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_ueM23dVjYuHkivd66w1CeQ) BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_yPrWKLBpf2bXB2XaU4Uvqg)" --Boundary_(ID_yPrWKLBpf2bXB2XaU4Uvqg) The rod I'm beginning to build calls for a step-down ferrule rather than asuper-z. Does anyone have a source for such a ferrule? Also, are there anyspecial issues involved in using such a ferrule? Thanks in advance Richard richard.nantel@videotron.ca --Boundary_(ID_yPrWKLBpf2bXB2XaU4Uvqg) rod I'm beginning to build calls for a step-down ferrule rather than a = Does anyone have a source for such a ferrule? Also, are there any = involved in using such a ferrule? in advance Richard richard.nantel@videotron.ca --Boundary_(ID_yPrWKLBpf2bXB2XaU4Uvqg)-- --Boundary_(ID_ueM23dVjYuHkivd66w1CeQ) mail).vcf" BEGIN:VCARDVERSION:2.1N:Nantel;Richard;;;FN:Richard Nantel (E-mail)ORG:Le groupe MENTOR;TITLE:TEL;WORK;VOICE:(514) 393- 3292TEL;HOME;VOICE:(514) 485-2287TEL;PAGER;VOICE:[1] (514) 111- 1111TEL;WORK;FAX:(514) 393-1483ADR;WORK:;;4374 Old Orchard Avenue;Monteal;Quebec;H4A 3B4;CanadaLABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:4374 Old Orchard =Avenue=3D0D=3D0AMonteal, Quebec H4A 3B4=3D0D=3D0ACanadaADR;HOME:;;4374 Old Orchard Avenue;Monteal;Quebec;H4A 3B4;CanadaLABEL;HOME;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:4374 Old Orchard =Avenue=3D0D=3D0AMonteal, Quebec H4A 3B4=3D0D=3D0ACanadaEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:richard.nantel@videotron.caREV:19980514T133343ZEND:VCARD --Boundary_(ID_ueM23dVjYuHkivd66w1CeQ)-- from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Tue Dec 1 09:21:30 1998 KAA27696 Subject: RE: Montague - decals/ ETHICS We are not talking about repairs made to washing machines or schoolbuses. Repairs made to a collectible MUST BE INDICATED, period. Repaired, repainted, restored decoys, bass plugs are worthless to acollector, and to be sold one restored and not being told is a crime. Wenow must x-ray decoys to determine if original. There will be a timewhensome one will duplicate a Garrison and sell it as an original. While I amnot against restoration, I am against not knowing a particular piece hasbeen restored, whether it has been revarnished, replaced wraps, replacedferrules, or what ever. Why is an all original piece worth more than onethat has some type of restoration? This is not about making an object asclose as original as can be done, it is about the potential fraud that itcan become! Bet the museum would indicate the repair if they were tosellit! Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 9:52 AM Subject: Re: Montague - decals/ ETHICS I think we may be obsessing a bit here. There is no otherarea, at leastthat I know of, in which there would be "ethical questions"as regards therestoration of an original article to its originalcondition. Making aforgery quality decal is only a bad idea if it is to be usedin a forgery.Markings, fittings and finish may and should be brought asclose as possibleto the standard intended by the original maker. Authorizedrepairmen areregularly supplied with decals, colors and other distinctivemarkings to aidin the restoration of everything from electric guitars toschoolbuses,usually by the manufacturer. The question as to whether a restored item is sold asrestored, rather thanoriginal, is largely moot. I recently had a conversationwith a conservatorof a large museum regarding the restoration work done to aself- portrait ofa famous painter. Because the repairs were done with suchskill and did notappreciably detract from the work, its value has not beeneffected at all.Things like these are sold and resold many times and therestorersintentions are quickly lost. If the restoration isacceptable to thepurchaser, the job is properly done. If any aspect of therestoration isoffered to a subsequent buyer who is better informed orpossessed of higherstandards, he or she will pass. Additional markings orlabels, such asrepairmen discretely affix to old master violins, wouldspoil the appearanceof a rod and therefore not be appropriate. I think that because of the unnaturally high prices beingasked- and paid- the finestdetails which may effect some aspect of its "mystique" orsomething. Myfeeling is that, when a market gets to this point, we mightbe well advisedto take a deep breath- or a deep swig- of reality and get onwith it. As tothe question of whether any conceivable Montague is worthyof so muchfuss... Davy from ragnarig@integrityol.com Tue Dec 1 09:32:48 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id AE5926C8010A; Tue, 01 Dec 1998 07:42:17 PDT Subject: Re: mail order catalogs? John Why don't you post as good a description as possible. We've got a lot ofguys who know about these things and might be able to use theinformation togive you a better idea of the rod's value and provenance. Also help indetermining what sort of parts you need to restore it. Davy Riggs -----Original Message----- Subject: mail order catalogs? All, I have an old bamboo fly rod of unknown origin that is very straight andhas two tips sections. I would like to restore it myself using newcomponents if possible. I will need to replace all of the guides,ferrules, grip and reel seat. It will also need refinishing. Pleaseadvise if there are any mail order companies that sell nickel sliverferrules, guides, seats, etc. especially for restoring old bamoo fly rods. Thanks for any advice, John from rclarke@eou.edu Tue Dec 1 10:04:23 1998 Subject: Re: Step-down ferrules Richard, REC sells a super SD which is the step down. I used on my firstrod and liked them. Robert Clarke ---------- Subject: Step-down ferrules The rod I'm beginning to build calls for a step-down ferrule rather than asuper-z. Does anyone have a source for such a ferrule? Also, are there anyspecial issues involved in using such a ferrule? Thanks in advance Richard richard.nantel@videotron.ca from bills@nwlink.com Tue Dec 1 10:23:12 1998 Subject: Re: REC and Tony Young John,I have used two addresses for REC lately.info@reccomponents.comcustserv@reccomponents.comHope one of them works for you.Bill-----Original Message----- Subject: REC and Tony Young Guys;I have tried to email REC and Tony Young, but it keeps coming back asundeliverable. If anyone knows if REC has a new email address, please letme know, and Tony, please email me direct, I want to compliment you onthenice ferrules. John Channer from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Tue Dec 1 10:27:08 1998 (modemcable221.173.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.09.21.23.34)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, Subject: RE: Step-down ferrules Hi Robert, Thanks for the info. Did you encounter any special issues involved infitting this type of ferrule to your blank? Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Step-down ferrules Richard, REC sells a super SD which is the step down. I used on my firstrod and liked them. Robert Clarke ---------- Subject: Step-down ferrules The rod I'm beginning to build calls for a step-down ferrule rather than asuper-z. Does anyone have a source for such a ferrule? Also, are there anyspecial issues involved in using such a ferrule? Thanks in advance Richard richard.nantel@videotron.ca from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Dec 1 10:35:37 1998 Subject: Re: Montague - decals/ ETHICS In a message dated 12/1/98 7:23:39 AM Pacific Standard Time,AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com writes: There will be a time whensome one will duplicate a Garrison and sell it as an original. It's already happened. One reason I stay away from"investment" bamboo rods. Darryl from bills@nwlink.com Tue Dec 1 10:41:22 1998 Subject: Re: Montague - decals/ ETHICS I agree with Don. A restoration should indicate such. Who is to say arestoration will not be passed off as an original many years after itchanges hands several times (obviously by someone other than therestorer).Application of remanufactured parts such as a decal would help preservethe "remanufactured". Seems that most of the world's proficient rod restoration guys and galsaremembers of this list or in communication with list members. Why not setastandard among the members that indicates restoration projects andremanufactured... labels. One idea, apply a small, desecrate symbol like avariation of a registered trade mark. A square around a R is refurbishedand a triangle around a R is remanufactured. Agree to the designation, putit in print, publish it in the planing form, end of discussion. My "$0.04' worth.Bill -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Montague - decals/ ETHICS All, I have thought about removing labels from scrap rods and reapplying themtoother rods, but is this any better than a new label? Why not make a slight change to the label? Add a spot/dot or other form of "restored" ID - something so that thelabelwould be easy to tell from the real thing. Maybe make the Montague"chicken"face the other direction or change the spelling to "Montaque". This would this allow you to have a labeled rod that could be easily ID'dbyanyone as a Montague and yet could not be passed off as an originalunrestoredrod. My $0.02. Don Burns from sniderja@email.uc.edu Tue Dec 1 11:11:54 1998 Subject: Fritz Weise Sorry to take up bandwidth, but Fritz Weise, if you are lurking here, yoursnail mail was returned for a second time (copies and instructions for theSmithwick binder).J. Snider. from rclarke@eou.edu Tue Dec 1 11:27:28 1998 Subject: Re: Step-down ferrules Richard, I stepped down the male end of the blank to allow for the stepdown in the ferrule. The rod is a 3 wt, so does not have a huge load on itnormally (only caught about 1.5 lb fish on it so far). Not sure if thereis any issue with weakening the cane from this. I am now using superswisswhich I like much better, but the super sd worked well I thought. Robert ----------From: Richard Nantel Subject: RE: Step-down ferrulesDate: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 8:27 AM Hi Robert, Thanks for the info. Did you encounter any special issues involved infitting this type of ferrule to your blank? Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 11:03 AM Subject: Re: Step-down ferrules Richard, REC sells a super SD which is the step down. I used on my firstrod and liked them. Robert Clarke ----------From: Richard Nantel Subject: Step-down ferrulesDate: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 7:07 AM The rod I'm beginning to build calls for a step-down ferrule rather thanasuper-z. Does anyone have a source for such a ferrule? Also, are thereanyspecial issues involved in using such a ferrule? Thanks in advance Richard richard.nantel@videotron.ca from rada@club.idecnet.com Tue Dec 1 11:51:39 1998 Subject: Problems with Shell Epon. I have glued a blank with Shell Epon 828 resin and 3140 curing agent forthe first time and Ihave had problems with heat straightening. I used the recomended mixratio 1:1 (by weight), andlet it cure for 7 days at room temp. Then I started heat straightening witha heat gun and theglue lines started opening! (I almost had a heart attack). I don't think Ihave heated it morethan usual, so Idon't know what's going on. Maybe the glued blank needs some post curingwith heat (instead of 7days at room temp)?Any help would be appreciated (I have to afford my next blank very soon). Fernando RadaSpain from mevans@acxiom.com Tue Dec 1 12:52:03 1998 (5.5.2232.9) Subject: Hock or Lie Nielsen? I need to order a good blade for my block plane (I'm setting up shop). Afew weeks ago, I sawsome Hock and Lie Nielsen blades together and noticed that the Lie-Nielsen blades seemed to be abit thicker - though I could not compare equivalent blades side by side. Maybe this issplitting hairs, but, is there any reason to favor one blade over the other(apart from priceshopping)? TIA,Mark Evans from LUU@NMDHST.CC.NIH.GOV Tue Dec 1 13:52:25 1998 Subject: plicing block Hello everybody,Would anyone have a schematic layout or directions on how to make asplicing block for nodeless rod construction?. Thank you for your help.Andy from arnold.jl@pg.com Tue Dec 1 14:02:46 1998 1998)) id852566CD.006E16F5 ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 15:02:28 -0500 Subject: Re: plicing block Andrew, I believe that the Rodmakers website has a drawing from ChrisBogart. Jon Lintvet also has them available through his business. Hissplicing blocks are very nice. Check out the Tools and Accesories page onJerry Foster's web page.Jeff from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Tue Dec 1 15:49:13 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Tue,1Dec 1998 16:48:08 -0500 Subject: Oven I was wondering if anyone out here has made Frank Neuemans(sp) oven? Reason: For the top, does it cover only the larger diameter pipe or the smaller one as well?Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.munrorodco.com from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Tue Dec 1 16:25:37 1998 (5.5.2407.0) Has anybody received their July issue of the BFM yet? Last I heard theywerebeing mailed out. from anglport@con2.com Tue Dec 1 16:39:12 1998 Subject: RE: Montague - decals/ ETHICS Al,Oddly enough, when you think of the difficulty in creating a duplicatedecal and simply engraving the identifying characteristics of some of theold rods, it's probably easier to copy the engraving!!! (And I think theengraved ones were probably more valuable to the collector)Art At 08:00 AM 12/1/98 -0500, you wrote:Your correct Art, but what if we started to do the same with reel seats,having the PAYNE LOGO placed on a compatible reel seat, etc.? Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, November 30, 1998 8:59 PM Subject: Re: Montague - decals/ ETHICS Art Port wrote: All,To put a real-life spin on this thing; if I'm notmistaken, Montagues go be raising hisrods' prices by calling them Montagues? Isn't that alittle like cuttingthe corners off twenty-dollar bills and replacing themwith fives to makecounterfeits?Just a thought (I know we're talking principle here, but Icouldn't resist).Art At 07:34 PM 11/30/98 EST, you wrote:OK say the original decal is intact but the rod needsrestored does restoringit with original type wraps, guides, thread etc. make itmore valuable?It isstill a restored rod with not the original wraps etc. Soif replacing thesethings with new stuff is OK then what is wrong with usinga reproductiondecalif it like all the rest of the stuff is authentic lookingto the originalstuff. Say Bob Summers rewraps, reguides and revarnishesa Payne usingoriginal color wraps etc. it is still restored and beingpassed off that way.So my point is if there is someone who is going to makeoriginal lookingdecals for restorations I think there is a place for it.I don't think it isanymore unethical than replacing the rest of the stuff onthe rod(s) in arestoration project.Bret Or we could relabel Montagues as Dickersons or Paynes. Idon't think it is agood idea.Ralph from anglport@con2.com Tue Dec 1 16:41:51 1998 Subject: Re: Montague - decals/ ETHICS Don,Or use a perfect copy of the decal and add "Restored by....." under all thecoats of varnish. Removing the addendum would likely damage the decalandvarnish beyond fixing.Art At 09:20 AM 12/1/98 EST, you wrote:All, I have thought about removing labels from scrap rods and reapplying themtoother rods, but is this any better than a new label? Why not make a slight change to the label? Add a spot/dot or other form of "restored" ID - something so that thelabelwould be easy to tell from the real thing. Maybe make the Montague"chicken"face the other direction or change the spelling to "Montaque". This would this allow you to have a labeled rod that could be easily ID'dbyanyone as a Montague and yet could not be passed off as an originalunrestoredrod. My $0.02. Don Burns from chris@artistree.com Tue Dec 1 16:50:32 1998 Subject: Re:BFR Patrick,To be honest with you, At this point I've pretty much kissed my $54bucks good-bye! Chris Wohlford "Coffey, Patrick W" wrote: Has anybody received their July issue of the BFM yet? Last I heard theywerebeing mailed out. from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Tue Dec 1 17:35:26 1998 SMTP(Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Tue, 1 Dec 1998 18:34:43 -0500 Subject: Re: God bless em for trying but man...every month it is in the process of being mailed. A few people know the problems I have had with machinists and forms, but if you don't shoot straight your going to get nailed eventually. Every time a customer calls about the status, I wish I could say their being packaged as we speak, however, I have learned to suck it up and explain and offer money back. Take care, On 1 Dec 98, at 14:24, Coffey, Patrick W wrote: Has anybody received their July issue of the BFM yet? Last I heard theywere being mailed out. Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.munrorodco.com from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Dec 1 17:40:30 1998 Subject: Re: BFR In a message dated 12/1/98 2:54:37 PM Pacific Standard Time,chris@artistree.com writes: Patrick,To be honest with you, At this point I've pretty much kissed my $54bucks good-bye! Chris Wohlford"Coffey, Patrick W" wrote: Has anybody received their July issue of the BFM yet? Last I heard they werebeing mailed out. I've got mine! Darryl from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Dec 1 17:50:08 1998 Subject: Re: Oven At 16:49 01/12/98 -0800, you wrote:I was wondering if anyone out here has made Frank Neuemans(sp) oven? Reason: For the top, does it cover only the larger diameter pipe or the smaller one as well?Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.munrorodco.com Jon, Give Frank a shout - his web page is linked to Rodmakers and his emailaddress is there. Don from ragnarig@integrityol.com Tue Dec 1 17:52:35 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A3861A4E0146; Tue, 01 Dec 1998 16:02:14 PDT Subject: Re: Hock or Lie Nielsen? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01BE1D42.3F9F3CC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BE1D42.3F9F3CC0 Dear Mark If the money's anywhere near the same and you need a really good iron, I =would go with Hock. He makes a really good product and depends on it = Just my opinion, I need to order a good blade for my block plane (I'm setting up shop). =A few weeks ago, I saw some Hock and Lie Nielsen blades together and =noticed that the Lie-Nielsen blades seemed to be a bit thicker - though =I could not compare equivalent blades side by side. Maybe this is =splitting hairs, but, is there any reason to favor one blade over the = TIA,Mark Evans ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BE1D42.3F9F3CC0 DearMark If the money's anywhere nearthe = good stuff but is not at the top of my "value-for-the-buck" = parade. Just my =opinion,Davy = some Hock and Lie Nielsen blades together and noticed that the = blades seemed to be a bit thicker - though I could not compare = ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BE1D42.3F9F3CC0-- from sjstill@iquest.net Tue Dec 1 17:59:35 1998 0000 (209.43.54.35) Subject: Re: BFR Hey Darryl, I've got mine! Darryl No faaaiirrrrr - you're on staff ! [or darn close anyway] Steve Steve & Julie StillabowerIndianapolis, IN ICQ 19299644 from ragnarig@integrityol.com Tue Dec 1 18:08:02 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A7271D1D014C; Tue, 01 Dec 1998 16:17:43 PDT Subject: Re: BFR Sir D Is this to be the one with info on silk lines? I'm about to restore acouple soon and would like to see this before I start. Davy I've got mine! Darryl from harry37@epix.net Tue Dec 1 18:10:13 1998 Subject: Montague Boat rod Carsten, Is your boat rod about 5 feet in length with guides on both sides and asort of center-yoke tip top? I have one as well-they were pretty common, from what I could tell. Doyou have any information on the wrap pattern and the colors used? Ihave the original hardware, but only a few of the original wraps wereleft. I'd like to restore, but I don't know the wrap pattern. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Greg from channer@hubwest.com Tue Dec 1 18:28:00 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A9FA1760150; Tue, 01 Dec 1998 17:29:46 MST7MDT Subject: Re: REC and Tony Young At 08:20 AM 12/1/98 -0800, you wrote:John,I have used two addresses for REC lately.info@reccomponents.comcustserv@reccomponents.comHope one of them works for you.Bill Bill;Tried both of those, 4 times, they all came back. I finally broke down andcalled them this morning to place my order and ask if they were having aproblem with their mail server. I hate to make long distance phone calls. John from moran@lincoln.midcoast.com Tue Dec 1 18:30:02 1998 (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA11052 for ;Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:29:50-0500 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01BE1D60.E3101320" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BE1D60.E3101320 test ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BE1D60.E3101320 test ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BE1D60.E3101320-- from bills@nwlink.com Tue Dec 1 18:52:53 1998 Subject: Re: REC and Tony Young So John,What was the diagnosis? Server problem or change of address?Ditto on the long distance.Bill-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: REC and Tony Young At 08:20 AM 12/1/98 -0800, you wrote:John,I have used two addresses for REC lately.info@reccomponents.comcustserv@reccomponents.comHope one of them works for you.Bill Bill;Tried both of those, 4 times, they all came back. I finally broke down andcalled them this morning to place my order and ask if they were having aproblem with their mail server. I hate to make long distance phone calls. John from Canerods@aol.com Tue Dec 1 18:55:25 1998 Subject: Re: Montague Boat rod In a message dated 12/1/98 4:11:50 PM Pacific Standard Time,harry37@epix.netwrites: Is your boat rod about 5 feet in length with guides on both sides and asort of center-yoke tip top? I have one as well-they were pretty common, from what I could tell. Doyou have any information on the wrap pattern and the colors used? Ihave the original hardware, but only a few of the original wraps wereleft. I'd like to restore, but I don't know the wrap pattern. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Greg Greg, I own a mint Monty "Cruiser" Weakfish rod and it is wrapped in red wrapsand afew green intermediates. The Montague catalogs that I have all just say things like: "Wound in twocolors of silk and varnished" or "Wound in one color of silk and varnished" So pick a pleasing color or two and wrap it. If yours has the same name asafly rod model, maybe wrap in the same colors as the that fly rod is"normally"found in. Example: "Sunbeam" do it in blue/white. Don Burns Don Burns from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Dec 1 18:59:23 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Montague - decals/ ETHICS Paynes don't have labels they are marked with an engraved butt cap.Bret from stpete@netten.net Tue Dec 1 19:03:09 1998 cedar.netten.net(8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA03531 for ;Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:03:02 Subject: Re: Oven Jon Lintvet wrote: I was wondering if anyone out here has made Frank Neuemans(sp)oven? Reason: For the top, does it cover only the larger diameterpipe or the smaller one as well?Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510http://www.munrorodco.com Jon, I made an oven very similar to Frank Neuneman's version. The outer shellis a single wall 6" duct pipe. The inner chamber is a 4" single wallduct. The 4" is inserted in the 6" duct and attached with screws alongone tangential point the length of the ducts. a hole large enough to insert the heatgun tip. What you are doing iscovering the 6" duct except for allowing the heatgun to be inserted andleaving the 4" duct open for the exhaust. Does that make sense? To complete the oven, I set the whole shebang on a standard 6" starterflange, then screw the flange to a fireresistant base. I used a pieceof 1"x12" oak with a firewall of sheetmetal and insulation. Using thestarter flange extends the length of the 6" duct by about 4"-5" and soallows the hot air some room to go up into the 4" duct and exhaust pastthe cane and out. I used a 4" elbow with some wire hooks inserted inthe bend to direct the exhaust away from the heatgun. The hooks arecentered over the 4" duct and I hang my cane from them. Some folks laythe oven on its side and just slide the cane in. The oven is wrapped in1" of fiberglass insulation I had lying around. The cheap $40 Wagner heatgun I got at Sears heats the oven up to 375degrees on a setting of 8 (max) and I find I can hold temperatures from200 to 375 depending on the setting and outside temperature. I've movedthe oven to my attic as it only takes about 1-1/2 square feet of floorspace. Rick C. P.S. e-mail me regarding the Grobet files. (sorry list) from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Dec 1 19:34:25 1998 Wed, 2 Dec 1998 09:32:53 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Hock or Lie Nielsen? On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, mevans - Mark Evans wrote: I need to order a good blade for my block plane (I'm setting up shop). Afew weeks ago, I sawsome Hock and Lie Nielsen blades together and noticed that the Lie-Nielsen blades seemed to be abit thicker - though I could not compare equivalent blades side by side. Maybe this issplitting hairs, but, is there any reason to favor one blade over the other(apart from priceshopping)? TIA,Mark Evans Both are makers of excellent plane irons and you can assume either would be fine. If in doubt however take the thicker iron. There isn't much (any) chatter to worry about but it all helps though the thicker iron will take more sharpening due to the extra surface area. If you hollow grind the edge this will help though. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Dec 1 19:35:19 1998 Subject: Re: RE: Montague - decals/ ETHICS I have a Payne that I am sending off to them to be redone. Now I couldhavesomeone else do it like Bob summers or someone else but if Payne canredo therod then I think it is still a Payne. Dickerson used to redo his rods all thetime for people and those same rods are out there now as Dickerson's andtheyare not being sold as redone either. So my point is if the original maker(whether it is an individual like Wayne or a company like Payne) redoestherod it is stil an original rod. Make sense. bret from saweiss@flash.net Tue Dec 1 19:55:50 1998 Subject: Re: Oven I was wondering if anyone out here has made Frank Neuemans(sp)oven? Reason: For the top, does it cover only the larger diameterpipe or the smaller one as well?Jon Lintvet Jon,The smaller pipe is the one that you put the bamboo sections in, and isalsothe exhaust. You have it project through the cover that is over the largerone. I also surrounded my oven with Fiberglas batting (without the paper)and enclosed it all in a larger pipe. This holds the heat in and allowsgreater efficiency from your heat gun.Steve from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Dec 1 20:42:45 1998 access.att.net boundary="_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862576=_=_=_"Subject: Re: Step- down ferrules --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862576=_=_=_ Richard Bailey Wood makes stepdown also. Chris --Original Message Text--- The rod I'm beginning to build calls for a step-down ferrule rather than asuper-z. Does anyonehave a source for such a ferrule? Also, are there any special issues involved in using such a ferrule? Thanks in advance Richard richard.nantel@videotron.ca --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862576=_=_=_ Richard Bailey Wood makes stepdown also. Chris --Original Message Text---From: Richard NantelDate: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 10:07:22 -0500 The rod I'mbeginning to build calls for a step-down ferrule rather than a super-z.Does anyone have asource for such a ferrule? Also, are there any special issues involved inusing such aferrule? Thanks inadvance Richard richard.nantel@videotron.ca --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862576=_=_=_-- from ragnarig@integrityol.com Tue Dec 1 21:35:44 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A7D57170062; Tue, 01 Dec 1998 19:45:25 PDT Subject: Son of Cork Order boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002F_01BE1D61.69388EA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01BE1D61.69388EA0 Dear All-Who-Participate Just thought all should know: Cork Specialties returned my check. Since =it was not accompanied by anything which could be construed as ="communication"- just an envelope and a check (?)- I assume he doesn't =feel that he can satisfy me as regards quality. Since everybody has been very patient and gone along with it thus far, I =wanted to inform all involved that I've selected another dealer, Christ =Kishish of C&D Trading in Minnesota. If anyone has pertinent comments =re. this firm, or is just tired of the ride and wants to get off, please =let me know. I hope none take me up on this, since we are just at a =good price break now, and defections would limit our buying power. I =will certainly honor any such requests, however, with no ill will = I'll stand by a couple of days to gauge the wind, then I'll launch, =hopefully, our final probe. Keeping the Faith,Davy ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01BE1D61.69388EA0 Dear All-Who-Participate Just thought all should know: Cork Specialties returned my = "communication"- just an envelope and a check (?)- I assume he= feel that he can satisfy me as regards quality. Since everybody has been very patient and gone along with it thus = re. this firm, or is just tired of the ride and wants to get off, please = certainly honor any such requests, however, with no ill will whatever, = I'll stand by a couple of days to gauge the wind, then I'll launch, = hopefully, our final probe. Keeping the =Faith,Davy ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01BE1D61.69388EA0-- from saweiss@flash.net Tue Dec 1 22:28:14 1998 Subject: Re: Son of Cork Order boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01BE1D71.1E838BC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BE1D71.1E838BC0 - I'll stand by a couple of days to gauge the wind, then I'll launch, =hopefully, our final probe. Keeping the Faith,Davy Davy, do you know anything about the seasonal availability of cork? =The stuff apparently is harvested at a certain time of year and is =heavily regulated by the Portuguese government. Maybe we missed the =prime time for this season's harvest.Steve ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BE1D71.1E838BC0 - I'll stand by a couple of days to gauge the wind, then I'll = hopefully, our final probe. Keeping the =Faith,Davy Davy, do you know= the seasonal availability of cork? The stuff apparently is harvested = certain time of year and is heavily regulated by the Portuguese government. Maybe we missed the= Steve ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BE1D71.1E838BC0-- from stpete@netten.net Tue Dec 1 22:44:42 1998 cedar.netten.net(8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA17566 for; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 22:44:40 Subject: Re: Son of Cork Order David wrote:Dear All-Who-Participate I'll stand by a couple of days to gauge the wind, then I'll launch,hopefully, our final probe. Keeping the Faith,Davy Carry on Brother David! I shall stand with thee. One-Who-Participates (Rick C.) from ragnarig@integrityol.com Tue Dec 1 22:53:10 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id AA031E2F014C; Tue, 01 Dec 1998 21:02:59 PDT Subject: Re: Son of Cork Order boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01BE1D6C.3F27D0C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BE1D6C.3F27D0C0 Davy, do you know anything about the seasonal availability of =cork? The stuff apparently is harvested at a certain time of year and is =heavily regulated by the Portuguese government. Maybe we missed the =prime time for this season's harvest. Steve You've said a mouthful, Steve. I believe the prime time was =about 1962. Seriously, no, I'm not aware of anything like this. In fact, I =believe the usual harvest time has just passed. Does anybody really =know about this? Davy ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BE1D6C.3F27D0C0 Davy, do= anything about the seasonal availability of cork? The stuff = is harvested at a certain time of year and is heavily regulated = Portuguese government. Maybe we = prime time for this season's harvest. Steve You've = 1962. this? Davy ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BE1D6C.3F27D0C0-- from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Tue Dec 1 23:55:15 1998 (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Not me. I wonder if they are in financial trouble. George Bourke -----Original Message----- Has anybody received their July issue of the BFM yet? Last I heard theywerebeing mailed out. from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Tue Dec 1 23:59:05 1998 (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Having had my own business before, that is the ONLY way to do it Jon. Onceyou lose credibility, your customer base is GONE. George Bourke(not anxious to renew even if I get all the issues I paid for) -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: God bless em for trying but man...every month it is in the processof being mailed. A few people know the problems I have had withmachinists and forms, but if you don't shoot straight your going toget nailed eventually. Every time a customer calls about thestatus, I wish I could say their being packaged as we speak,however, I have learned to suck it up and explain and offer moneyback. Take care, On 1 Dec 98, at 14:24, Coffey, Patrick W wrote: Has anybody received their July issue of the BFM yet? Last I heard theywere being mailed out. Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510http://www.munrorodco.com from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Wed Dec 2 00:00:58 1998 (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: BFR Darryl, A mailed-out subscription copy or a hand-it-to-you copy to proof yourarticle? If a subscription copy, when did it arrive??? George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: BFR In a message dated 12/1/98 2:54:37 PM Pacific Standard Time,chris@artistree.com writes: Patrick,To be honest with you, At this point I've pretty much kissed my $54bucks good-bye! Chris Wohlford"Coffey, Patrick W" wrote: Has anybody received their July issue of the BFM yet? Last I heardtheywerebeing mailed out. I've got mine! Darryl from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Wed Dec 2 00:08:33 1998 Subject: Re: Son of Cork Order The only thing I can tell you about Christ is that he is a spammer. I'vegotten a few unsolicited emails from him. Doesn't mean he is dishonest,just that you should be careful unless you get some references.Especially if you are committing other folks money. If you need anothersupplier email me off list. Regards, Bob On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, David wrote: Dear All-Who-Participate Just thought all should know: Cork Specialties returned my check. Sinceit was notaccompanied by anything which could be construed as "communication"-just an envelope and acheck (?)- I assume he doesn't feel that he can satisfy me as regardsquality. Since everybody has been very patient and gone along with it thus far, Iwanted to inform allinvolved that I've selected another dealer, Christ Kishish of C&D Tradingin Minnesota. Ifanyone has pertinent comments re. this firm, or is just tired of the rideand wants to get off,please let me know. I hope none take me up on this, since we are just at agood price breaknow, and defections would limit our buying power. I will certainly honorany such requests,however, with no ill will whatever, in case that's anyone's desire. I'll stand by a couple of days to gauge the wind, then I'll launch,hopefully, our finalprobe. Keeping the Faith,Davy from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Dec 2 00:41:41 1998 Subject: Re: BFR In a message dated 12/1/98 4:05:36 PM Pacific Standard Time,sjstill@iquest.net writes: No faaaiirrrrr - you're on staff ! [or darn close anyway] I guess you could call it that...But don't you usually get paid or something if youare on a staff? Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Dec 2 00:47:21 1998 Subject: Re: BFR In a message dated 12/1/98 4:11:33 PM Pacific Standard Time,ragnarig@integrityol.com writes: Is this to be the one with info on silk lines? I'm about to restore acouple soon and would like to see this before I start. We have to think back to when this issue was SUPPOSED to comeout - July/August - before the silk line thing was started.... Darryl from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Wed Dec 2 02:11:20 1998 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id VAA03126 for ;Wed, 2 Dec 1998 21:11:24+1300 Subject: Re: Oven Jon, I made mine very similar to Ric, but with a couple of furthermodifications. I found that a further 8 inch pipe around the outside of the 6 inch pipemade a lot of difference to the ability to hold a fairly steady temperature.I stuffed some fibreglass insulation between the outer pipe and the 6 inchpipe. This seemed to give me a more constant and higher temperature. I also found that I had a fairly large temperature differential between thetop of the "cooking" pipe and the bottom . I then put a one inch pipe about3 foot long inside the 6" pipe with the heat gun going into the top of the 1inch pipe so that the hot air is being delivered close to the bottom inletto the "cooking". This seems to have resulted in a more constanttemperaturein the cooking tube , about 20 degree range top to bottom , and also ahigher temperature . I keep mine standing in the corner of the garage and take it outside whentreating bamboo. The clear space above makes it easier to turn the stripsaround , (but then we do not get any snow here) . I do not have the cap over the 4" pipe but let the hot air exhaust out thetop . Maybe that is why I have trouble getting over 325 degrees ? . At thesame time the strips tend to start to burn after 4 minutes. I find it iseasy and quick to turn the strips around if there is an opening at the top.I cook for 4 minutes from cold , pull the strips out and reverse them , andcook for 3.5 minutes for the second spell and end up with light tan strips. Iank At 06:58 PM 1/12/98 -0600, you wrote:Jon Lintvet wrote: I was wondering if anyone out here has made Frank Neuemans(sp)oven? Reason: For the top, does it cover only the larger diameterpipe or the smaller one as well?Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510http://www.munrorodco.com Jon, I made an oven very similar to Frank Neuneman's version. The outer shellis a single wall 6" duct pipe. The inner chamber is a 4" single wallduct. The 4" is inserted in the 6" duct and attached with screws alongone tangential point the length of the ducts. a hole large enough to insert the heatgun tip. What you are doing iscovering the 6" duct except for allowing the heatgun to be inserted andleaving the 4" duct open for the exhaust. Does that make sense? To complete the oven, I set the whole shebang on a standard 6" starterflange, then screw the flange to a fireresistant base. I used a pieceof 1"x12" oak with a firewall of sheetmetal and insulation. Using thestarter flange extends the length of the 6" duct by about 4"-5" and soallows the hot air some room to go up into the 4" duct and exhaust pastthe cane and out. I used a 4" elbow with some wire hooks inserted inthe bend to direct the exhaust away from the heatgun. The hooks arecentered over the 4" duct and I hang my cane from them. Some folks laythe oven on its side and just slide the cane in. The oven is wrapped in1" of fiberglass insulation I had lying around. The cheap $40 Wagner heatgun I got at Sears heats the oven up to 375degrees on a setting of 8 (max) and I find I can hold temperatures from200 to 375 depending on the setting and outside temperature. I've movedthe oven to my attic as it only takes about 1-1/2 square feet of floorspace. Rick C. P.S. e-mail me regarding the Grobet files. (sorry list) from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Wed Dec 2 06:42:17 1998 HAA05653 Subject: RE: Montague - decals/ ETHICS Rod still must be sold as restored or refinished by. Not going to debatethis but if you review any reputable dealers catalog you will seereferencessuch as, second tip made at a later date, etc. Original means just that, asit was made, NOT refinished regardless of who done it. Picky, but! Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 8:03 PM Subject: RE: Montague - decals/ ETHICS I have a Payne that I am sending off to them to be redone.Now I could havesomeone else do it like Bob summers or someone else but ifPayne can redo therod then I think it is still a Payne. Dickerson used toredo his rods all thetime for people and those same rods are out there now asDickerson's and theyare not being sold as redone either. So my point is if theoriginal maker(whether it is an individual like Wayne or a company likePayne) redoes therod it is stil an original rod. Make sense. bret from ragnarig@integrityol.com Wed Dec 2 08:39:09 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A369125D0138; Wed, 02 Dec 1998 06:49:13 PDT Subject: Re: Son of Cork Order Dear Bob Whom did you have in mind/ Davy -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Son of Cork Order The only thing I can tell you about Christ is that he is a spammer. I'vegotten a few unsolicited emails from him. Doesn't mean he is dishonest,just that you should be careful unless you get some references.Especially if you are committing other folks money. If you need anothersupplier email me off list. Regards, Bob On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, David wrote: Dear All-Who-Participate Just thought all should know: Cork Specialties returned my check. Sinceit was not accompanied by anything which could be construed as"communication"- just an envelope and a check (?)- I assume he doesn'tfeelthat he can satisfy me as regards quality.. Since everybody has been very patient and gone along with it thus far, Iwanted to inform all involved that I've selected another dealer, ChristKishish of C&D Trading in Minnesota. If anyone has pertinent comments re.this firm, or is just tired of the ride and wants to get off, please let meknow. I hope none take me up on this, since we are just at a good pricebreak now, and defections would limit our buying power. I will certainlyhonor any such requests, however, with no ill will whatever, in case that'sanyone's desire. I'll stand by a couple of days to gauge the wind, then I'll launch,hopefully, our final probe. Keeping the Faith,Davy from rada@mibuzon.com Wed Dec 2 09:39:38 1998 Subject: Re: Problems with Shell Epon II Thank you everybody for the help. My aplologys for repeating the messagebut I wasunexpectly unsuscribed and I didn't receive any messages for the pastdays.Regarding your answers, I think it must be a binder preassure problem as Ihave alsoused for the first time a Millward type binder that we have just finished.The factis that if we diminish the binding pressure the blank starts moving up anddown, sowe decided to increase a bit binding pressure. The binder works prettywell and lessstraightening is needed if we compare with our old Garrison binder, butwe didn'ttake this Epon problem into account. Has anybody any advice about pressure settingsin a Millward binder for Shell Epon light pressure requirements?Thanks to all. Fernando Rada from servodyne@fda.net Wed Dec 2 11:03:32 1998 Subject: UNSUSCRIBE mac-creator="4D4F5353" from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Dec 2 11:56:24 1998 Subject: Rod Design - Tight Loop Tip About 2 years ago, I had a thought that casting a tight loopcould be built into a rod. After some experimentation, I amsure of it. If you taper the tip section like so: Station Diameter0 .0685 .07210 .09015 .110 (This is for 5 wt line), you get a rod that will casta tight loop no matter what you do. You reallyhave to swing your rod in a wide arc if you wanta wide loop for nymphing or whatever. Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Dec 2 13:31:49 1998 Subject: Test Sorry folks, but I haven't gotten my last post back throughthis list. It's either AOL messing up again, or I've beenbumped off. from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Dec 2 14:16:00 1998 Subject: Re: Test Thanks everyone for the private emails telling me theysaw my post. They were very helpful because theylet me know my posts were making it to the server,and since the private emails made it through it wasn'tAOL. I did the unsubscribe - resubscribe thing and hopefullyI will see this post. Thanks again,Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Dec 2 14:32:22 1998 Subject: Re: Test Seems to be fixed. Ready to Rock 'n Roll again.Hope I didn't miss much! Darryl from thramer@presys.com Wed Dec 2 14:35:44 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Rod Design - Tight Loop Tip SalarFly@aol.com wrote: About 2 years ago, I had a thought that casting a tight loopcould be built into a rod. After some experimentation, I amsure of it. If you taper the tip section like so: Station Diameter0 .0685 .07210 .09015 .110 (This is for 5 wt line), you get a rod that will casta tight loop no matter what you do. You reallyhave to swing your rod in a wide arc if you wanta wide loop for nymphing or whatever. DarrylI think that the caster has more to do with it. Some rods are a'natural' for someone which seems to make it easier for them to time. Asan example: casting skill can easily overcome a poor taper but nothingcan overcome a lack of casting skill.A.J.Thramer from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Dec 2 14:53:38 1998 Subject: Re: Rod Design - Tight Loop Tip In a message dated 12/2/98 12:46:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,thramer@presys.com writes: I think that the caster has more to do with it. Some rods are a'natural' for someone which seems to make it easier for them to time.Asan example: casting skill can easily overcome a poor taper but nothingcan overcome a lack of casting skill. I tend to agree with you, but give this tip design a try. It throwsa tight loop even with sloppy casting. Darryl from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed Dec 2 16:12:30 1998 Subject: Re: Son of Cork Order Davy-Some of us have gotten cork from C&D for quite a while - PersonallyI wouldrecommend the 1/4" thick high end grade - Al Rohen (AER) and I splitshipmentof this grade when it is available - as good as you are going to find. Wayne from bills@nwlink.com Wed Dec 2 17:23:57 1998 Subject: Re: Son of Cork Order Davy,I was in the Angler's Workshop (Washington state) store about a month agoand saw a recent shipment of very high quality 1/2 inch cork rings. Pricewas about $1.40 per ring... I had to pass at that price but perhaps theywill make a deal for volume.Bill-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Son of Cork Order Davy-Some of us have gotten cork from C&D for quite a while - Personally Iwouldrecommend the 1/4" thick high end grade - Al Rohen (AER) and I splitshipmentof this grade when it is available - as good as you are going to find. Wayne from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed Dec 2 17:43:30 1998 Subject: An Award I have been invited to the George Mason Chapter awards banquet thiscomingsaturday night in downtown Grayrock - It seems that the Rodmakers arebeingrecognized with the chapter's Outstanding Organization Award - the awardisnot given yearly but only at times when the chapter views an organizationashaving preformed great service to promote the resources. This award isbeinggiven as a 'Thank You' to the Rodmakers group for the generous effort fortheresources the organization made with The Makers Rod event.I suggest that Mike Biondo, the Grand TroutBum, be the keeper of theawardbringing it to the different get togethers - all in favor Also in the past week I have recieved two Thank You notes that I needto passon as well. The first is from the George Griffith Foundation and the secondis from the Huron Pines Resource Conservation & Developement Area Council(theyare the Upper Manistee & AuSable River watershed restoration folks). Allwishto thank the Rodmakers for their generous financial gifts. Each of thethreegroups recieved a $5000 check from the proceeds from The Makers Rodraffle.The thought came up that an invitation be extended to the groups todo apresentation at Grayrock 99 - that would give them the opportunity toshow uswhat they are doing - for those that have fished the area streams you haveseen some of their work but may have not known it.Lastly, an update on the next Makers Rod - because of the timeelement and toassure the uniqueness of the project - The Makers Rod 99 is now TheMakers Rod00. That way the idea won't get too old too quick and more time can bespentto maximize the effort - because of the 2 years gap the feeling by severalisthat the number of tickets available should be bumped to 750 yet remainat the$50 level. And that this quantity should be capped at the number into thefuture. Tickets should be available in Janurary and at that time those thatpurchased tickets last year will be given a chance to purchace the samenumberagain. For those that didn't take advantage of last years raffle there arestill some 100 tickets for those that might wish to have a like numberedseries of the artwork. Wayne from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Dec 2 17:56:14 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Son of Cork Order Davy,I was getting ready to send in an order to Cork specialties but now amapprehensive to do so since you said their stuff was not good. Would youletme know off list what is wrong with it and I can make up my mind as towhat Iwant to do as far as getting cork. I was thinking of putting in asubstantialorder.Bret from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Dec 2 18:08:23 1998 Subject: Re: Son of Cork Order Bill, I have purchased their rings at that price (got the evil eye fromSHMBO), and really like them. Good folks to work with, too. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Bill Strelke Subject: Re: Son of Cork OrderDate: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 3:20 PM Davy,I was in the Angler's Workshop (Washington state) store about a monthagoand saw a recent shipment of very high quality 1/2 inch cork rings. Pricewas about $1.40 per ring... I had to pass at that price but perhaps theywill make a deal for volume.Bill-----Original Message-----From: WayneCatt@aol.com Date: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 2:20 PMSubject: Re: Son of Cork Order Davy-Some of us have gotten cork from C&D for quite a while - Personally Iwouldrecommend the 1/4" thick high end grade - Al Rohen (AER) and I splitshipmentof this grade when it is available - as good as you are going to find. Wayne from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Dec 2 18:28:30 1998 Subject: Re: Son of Cork Order An additional note, Kaufman Streamborn advertises their rings at I think.75 each, and say best available. Anyone have experience with theirs? Robert Clarke ----------From: Robert Clarke Subject: Re: Son of Cork OrderDate: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 4:07 PM Bill, I have purchased their rings at that price (got the evil eye fromSHMBO), and really like them. Good folks to work with, too. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Bill Strelke Subject: Re: Son of Cork OrderDate: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 3:20 PM Davy,I was in the Angler's Workshop (Washington state) store about a monthagoand saw a recent shipment of very high quality 1/2 inch cork rings. Pricewas about $1.40 per ring... I had to pass at that price but perhapstheywill make a deal for volume.Bill-----Original Message-----From: WayneCatt@aol.com Date: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 2:20 PMSubject: Re: Son of Cork Order Davy-Some of us have gotten cork from C&D for quite a while - Personally Iwouldrecommend the 1/4" thick high end grade - Al Rohen (AER) and I splitshipmentof this grade when it is available - as good as you are going to find. Wayne from lblan@provide.net Wed Dec 2 18:45:11 1998 Subject: RE: An Award Aye! WayneCatt@aol.comSent: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 6:38 PM Subject: An Award I suggest that Mike Biondo, the Grand TroutBum, be the keeper of the awardbringing it to the different get togethers - all in favor from jaquin@netsync.net Wed Dec 2 18:55:39 1998 quartz.netsync.net (8.8.5/8.6.12)with SMTP id TAA25918 for ; Wed, 2 Dec1998 19:55:28 -0500 Subject: Canadian rodmakers Would like to communicate with Canadian rodmakers via e-mail off-line thank you, jerry from ragnarig@integrityol.com Wed Dec 2 19:35:45 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id AD22243F0148; Wed, 02 Dec 1998 17:45:06 PDT Subject: Re: Re: Son of Cork Order boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE1E19.D4259100" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE1E19.D4259100 Dear Bret In short, the quality was just lousy. I dumped it all out and proceeded =to divvy it up into bags, according to what everyone had ordered. I =thought at first that the quality was just so-so, then the farther I got =into it the fewer so-so rings I found. After I decided not to keep it, =I looked real hard for good, really clear cork; there were about ten =premium grade rings out of several hundred. Another major problem was that virtually all of the rings were badly =milled, i.e. they were not flat, and would lose about an eighth of an =inch truing them up for gluing. I suppose they might have been worth =$0.53 at the corner store if you bought a dozen, but not in quantity for =sure. And the extra work required to use them just was the icing on the =cake. I would honestly advise you to look elsewhere. It's just not worth the =money. Good luck,Davy Davy,I was getting ready to send in an order to Cork specialties but now amapprehensive to do so since you said their stuff was not good. Would =you letme know off list what is wrong with it and I can make up my mind as to =what Iwant to do as far as getting cork. I was thinking of putting in a =substantialorder.Bret ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE1E19.D4259100 DearBret In short, the quality was just = dumped it all out and proceeded to divvy it up into bags, according to = decided not to keep it, I looked real hard for good, really clear cork; = were about ten premium grade rings out of several =hundred. Another major problem wasthat = of the rings were badly milled, i.e. they were not flat, and would lose = been worth $0.53 at the corner store if you bought a dozen, but not in = the cake. I would honestly advise you to = Good luck, getting = list what is wrong with it and I can make up my mind as to what = ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE1E19.D4259100-- from ragnarig@integrityol.com Wed Dec 2 19:39:21 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id ADFA1018012E; Wed, 02 Dec 1998 17:48:42 PDT Subject: Re: An Award I suggest that Mike Biondo, the Grand TroutBum, be the keeper of the awardbringing it to the different get togethers - all in favor aye,Davy from ragnarig@integrityol.com Wed Dec 2 19:42:30 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id AEB724480148; Wed, 02 Dec 1998 17:51:51 PDT Subject: Re: Son of Cork Order Wayne Thanks for the tip. I'll ask him if he's got any in stock. Davy Davy-Some of us have gotten cork from C&D for quite a while - Personally Iwouldrecommend the 1/4" thick high end grade - Al Rohen (AER) and I splitshipmentof this grade when it is available - as good as you are going to find. Wayne from stpete@netten.net Wed Dec 2 22:22:32 1998 cedar.netten.net(8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA24123 for; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 22:22:29 Subject: Re: An Award Aye! Rick C. WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: I suggest that Mike Biondo, the Grand TroutBum, be the keeper of theawardbringing it to the different get togethers - all in favor from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Dec 2 23:00:40 1998 Thu, 3 Dec 1998 13:00:25 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: An Award On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Rick Crenshaw wrote: Aye! Rick C. WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: I suggest that Mike Biondo, the Grand TroutBum, be the keeper of theawardbringing it to the different get togethers - all in favor Hell, why not. And I'll never even see it! Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from flyrod6@juno.com Wed Dec 2 23:11:40 1998 00:11:13 EST Subject: Re: An Award Aye Mark Hallowell On Wed, 2 Dec 1998 18:37:36 EST WayneCatt@aol.com writes:I have been invited to the George Mason Chapter awards banquet this comingsaturday night in downtown Grayrock - It seems that the Rodmakers are beingrecognized with the chapter's Outstanding Organization Award - the award isnot given yearly but only at times when the chapter views an organization ashaving preformed great service to promote the resources. This award is beinggiven as a 'Thank You' to the Rodmakers group for the generous effort resources the organization made with The Makers Rod event.I suggest that Mike Biondo, the Grand TroutBum, be the keeper of the awardbringing it to the different get togethers - all in favor Also in the past week I have recieved two Thank You notes that I need to passon as well. The first is from the George Griffith Foundation and the second is from the Huron Pines Resource Conservation & Developement Area Council (theyare the Upper Manistee & AuSable River watershed restoration folks). All wishto thank the Rodmakers for their generous financial gifts. Each of the threegroups recieved a $5000 check from the proceeds from The Makers Rod raffle.The thought came up that an invitation be extended to the groups to do apresentation at Grayrock 99 - that would give them the opportunity to show uswhat they are doing - for those that have fished the area streams you haveseen some of their work but may have not known it.Lastly, an update on the next Makers Rod - because of the time element and toassure the uniqueness of the project - The Makers Rod 99 is now The Makers Rod00. That way the idea won't get too old too quick and more time can be spentto maximize the effort - because of the 2 years gap the feeling by several isthat the number of tickets available should be bumped to 750 yet remain at the$50 level. And that this quantity should be capped at the number into thefuture. Tickets should be available in Janurary and at that time those thatpurchased tickets last year will be given a chance to purchace the same numberagain. For those that didn't take advantage of last years raffle there arestill some 100 tickets for those that might wish to have a like numberedseries of the artwork. Wayne Mark A. Hallowell, SrDelaware River Fly Rods.flyrod6@juno.com from jwt4639@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Thu Dec 3 06:15:51 1998 with ESMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 07:15:44 EST Subject: Re: An Award A suggestion from a lurker. Have Mike create a awards section on the webpage andphotograph the award and post it for all to see.Then Tony could get to see it from his easy chair. Jim T WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: I have been invited to the George Mason Chapter awards banquetthis comingsaturday night in downtown Grayrock - It seems that the Rodmakers arebeingrecognized with the chapter's Outstanding Organization Award - theaward isnot given yearly but only at times when the chapter views anorganization ashaving preformed great service to promote the resources. This award isbeinggiven as a 'Thank You' to the Rodmakers group for the generous effort fortheresources the organization made with The Makers Rod event.I suggest that Mike Biondo, the Grand TroutBum, be the keeper ofthe awardbringing it to the different get togethers - all in favorAlso in the past week I have recieved two Thank You notes that Ineed to passon as well. The first is from the George Griffith Foundation and thesecond is from the Huron Pines Resource Conservation & Developement AreaCouncil (theyare the Upper Manistee & AuSable River watershed restoration folks). Allwishto thank the Rodmakers for their generous financial gifts. Each of thethreegroups recieved a $5000 check from the proceeds from The Makers Rodraffle.The thought came up that an invitation be extended to the groups todo apresentation at Grayrock 99 - that would give them the opportunity toshow uswhat they are doing - for those that have fished the area streams youhaveseen some of their work but may have not known it.Lastly, an update on the next Makers Rod - because of the timeelement and toassure the uniqueness of the project - The Makers Rod 99 is now TheMakers Rod00. That way the idea won't get too old too quick and more time can bespentto maximize the effort - because of the 2 years gap the feeling byseveral isthat the number of tickets available should be bumped to 750 yet remainat the$50 level. And that this quantity should be capped at the number into thefuture. Tickets should be available in Janurary and at that time thosethatpurchased tickets last year will be given a chance to purchace the samenumberagain. For those that didn't take advantage of last years raffle there arestill some 100 tickets for those that might wish to have a like numberedseries of the artwork. Wayne from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Dec 3 06:35:04 1998 Subject: Re: Re: An Award AYE,Bret from LUU@NMDHST.CC.NIH.GOV Thu Dec 3 07:44:45 1998 Subject: Monro Rod Com. Hi all,I was wondering if any of you have tried to contact Munro Rod Company forthe past week or so?. Is their server down?. I have been trying tocontact Munro Rod to get a total for the items I am interested inpurchasing but have not been sucessful. Do you know of any alternatesource for dept gauge base, calibrator, and 60* points?. Please advicebecause I like to get started in rod building in January. Thank you verymuch for your help.Andy from stpete@netten.net Thu Dec 3 09:05:01 1998 cedar.netten.net(8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA06812 for ;Thu, 3 Dec 1998 09:04:55 Subject: Re: Monro Rod Com. I've sent two e-mail messages to Jon over the last two or three weeks.None have been answered. I figure either he doesn't like me anymore ormaybe he's not getting the messages. Jon? Rick Crenshaw ANDREW LUU wrote: Hi all,I was wondering if any of you have tried to contact Munro Rod Companyforthe past week or so?. Is their server down?. I have been trying tocontact Munro Rod to get a total for the items I am interested inpurchasing but have not been sucessful. Do you know of any alternatesource for dept gauge base, calibrator, and 60* points?. Please advicebecause I like to get started in rod building in January. Thank you verymuch for your help.Andy from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Dec 3 09:49:48 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Rod Design - Tight Loop Tip Darryl,I'm not in my shop so I don't have the tapers with me but I didsomethingsimilar to design a 71/2', 3 wght and achieved the same result- the ownerisamazed at his casting ability.I'm in the process of applying the sameconceptto an 8' for a 5 wght. When I get a chance I'll post both tapers to the listifvanyone's interested.Regards,Hank W. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Dec 3 09:51:49 1998 Subject: Re: Re: An Award Aye,Hank W. from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Thu Dec 3 10:07:00 1998 Subject: RE: Rod Design - Tight Loop Tip Darryl, I am probably not the only one on the list who would like tohave you expound some more on the design process behind your tight looptaper. You referred to experimentation - what was that? Also, how doesthis relate to the stress curve - if there's a "hinge" involved in rollcasting, is there some configuration that relates to tightness ofloopability (to coin a technical term)? Seth from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Dec 3 10:23:48 1998 Subject: Re: Rod Design - Tight Loop Tip In a message dated 12/3/98 8:08:26 AM Pacific Standard Time,SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us writes: You referred to experimentation - what was that? Also, how doesthis relate to the stress curve - if there's a "hinge" involved in rollcasting, is there some configuration that relates to tightness ofloopability (to coin a technical term)? Experimentation was just that - I made it, casted it, fished it,and I still have a few of the experimental rods lying around. The tip aids in the tightness of the loop in overhead casting.The "hinge" aids in the ability to roll cast. I haven't noticedit playing a few big role in affecting overhead casting. Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Dec 3 10:28:12 1998 Subject: Re: Rod Design - Tight Loop Tip I haven't noticed it playing a few big role in affecting overhead casting. Make that: I haven't noticed it playing a *very* big role in affecting overhead casting. I hate it when I do that... Darryl from dmcfall@ODYSSEE.NET Thu Dec 3 10:32:39 1998 Subject: Re: Rod Design - Tight Loop Tip At 10:47 AM 03/12/98 EST, you wrote:Darryl,I'm not in my shop so I don't have the tapers with me but I didsomethingsimilar to design a 71/2', 3 wght and achieved the same result-the ownerisamazed at his casting ability.I'm in the process of applying the sameconceptto an 8' for a 5 wght. When I get a chance I'll post both tapers to the listifvanyone's interested.Regards,Hank W. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would be interested in seeing the tapers. Thanks The way to a fisherman's heart is through his fly. Dave McFalldmcfall@odyssee.net from jfoster@gte.net Thu Dec 3 10:41:36 1998 Subject: Re: An Award mac-creator="4D4F5353" greatjwf from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Thu Dec 3 10:43:00 1998 Subject: RE: Rod Design - Tight Loop Tip Darryl wrote - The tip aids in the tightness of the loop in overhead casting.The "hinge" aids in the ability to roll cast. I haven't noticedit playing a few big role in affecting overhead casting. [Seth Steinzor] I think my question may not have been clear. Iwas wondering whether, in designing this taper, you had a particular empirically. I used the hinge as an example of a feature on the stresscurve that correlates with a known aspect of rod behavior, and I waswondering if there was some other kind of zig or zag in the curve thatmight correlate to tightness of loop. I guess the more general questionhas to do with whether specific features of the stress curve (besidesthe hinge) can be related with any precision to specific casting traits. from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Thu Dec 3 10:46:11 1998 Subject: Al Talbot Bamboo Rod? Posting for a friend: I'm looking for any info on Al Talbot split cane rods. This I do know:I know he passed away in july '89, he lived in Antioch, CA, he workedwith Jeff Walker at R.L. Winston rods. I have a very close friend who has two of his exquisite cane rods, givenas gifts by Al, which have never been used. They were built in 1983 orso. Any help would be appreciated.no size markings on the rods. I presume a 4 wt.and a 6 wt. both 9'.2 tips each. In supreme mint condition. TIA, Bob from Ed.Estlow@co.hennepin.mn.us Thu Dec 3 10:51:01 1998 1998 16:50:10 UT v4.6.2 (651.2 6-10-1998)) Subject: Re: Rod Design - Tight Loop Tip Perhaps what was meant by the original question was, like the hinge forroll casting, is there a geometric feature or parameter that seems topromote tight loops (e.g. straight taper, stiff initial 15 inches of tip,mini tip hinge, or other?). Respectfully,-Ed Estlow SalarFly@aol.com on 12/03/98 10:46:12 AM Subject: Re: Rod Design - Tight Loop Tip I haven't noticed it playing a few big role in affectingoverhead casting. Make that: I haven't noticed it playing a *very* big role in affectingoverhead casting. I hate it when I do that... Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Dec 3 11:56:30 1998 Subject: Granger Special Here are my measurements across three flats,this is with varnish on, I estimate subtracting.004 for varnish. I measured across the guideflat first, tip to the left, and the next flats rotating down (top towards me). If the list looks funny, sometimes spacing isn't the same on different computers, especially if you use a proportional font, so if it looks funky try using a non-proportional font. This is a 8 1/2 foot, three piece, supposedly a6 or 7 wt. It didn't cast a 6 wt very well, to me itfelt better with a 7 or 8 wt. Tip 1 Tip 21 1/4 .080 .078 .080 .076 .078 .080 End of Tip Top5 .092 .092 .090 .091 .090 .09510 .111 .109 .110 .112 .114 .11515 .130 .129 .130 .130 .132 .13220 .149 .147 .146 .146 .147 .14825 .165 .164 .163 .164 .165 .17030 .183 .185 .185 .185 .184 .18434 Ferrule40 .213 .208 .207 Not a typo45 .236 .235 .23550 .262 .263 .26355 .270 .268 .26860 .280 .277 .27565 .290 .298 .288 Not a typo68 Ferrule70 .288 .290 .29075 .320 .323 .32180 .331 .340 .341 Not a typo85 .347 .346 .34790 .359 .360 .358Butt swelled to .420 closest to the handle Icould measure. Looked like it swelled moreunder the handle. from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Dec 3 12:03:00 1998 Subject: Re: Rod Design - Tight Loop Tip In a message dated 12/3/98 8:47:55 AM Pacific Standard Time,SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us writes: I think my question may not have been clear. Iwas wondering whether, in designing this taper, you had a particular empirically. Sorry for the misunderstanding. It was a little of both. I had a couple rods that it seemed to be easier to cast a tighter loop with, so I graphed up the stress curves and tried to determine why it was easier to cast a tighter loop with them. Then I made a couple rods totest out my theories. Everything pointed to that it was the tip design that promoted tighter loops, so I made a rod with thetip design I posted. Tight loop city! Darryl from Turbotrk@aol.com Thu Dec 3 13:01:02 1998 Subject: Re: Rod Design - Tight Loop Tip Darryl, would it be too much to ask for the entire taper? I am juststartingout and do not understand the whole picture. thanks,stuartsoon to be a rod builder from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Thu Dec 3 13:07:25 1998 (5.5.2407.0) Subject: RE: Son of Cork Order does anybody know who and what C&D is and how to get a hold of them. ----------From: WayneCatt@aol.com[SMTP:WayneCatt@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 2:01 PM Subject: Re: Son of Cork Order Davy-Some of us have gotten cork from C&D for quite a while - PersonallyI wouldrecommend the 1/4" thick high end grade - Al Rohen (AER) and I splitshipmentof this grade when it is available - as good as you are going to find. Wayne from gjflyfsh@juno.com Thu Dec 3 13:16:10 1998 14:15:59 EST Subject: Re: Monro Rod Com. I've had a calibrator and 60 degree point ordered for about a month andnothingjerry johnson from sjstill@iquest.net Thu Dec 3 13:17:38 1998 0000 (209.43.54.112) Subject: ff topic - computer ? Hi All, Any of you computer folks out there, I have an odd question; I have a Compaq laptop (486/50) and yesterday I had to reinstallWindows95.That went [mostly] O.K., but now I CANNOT get a browser to open up.Netscape was my primary, but I can't even get MS Internet Explorer to openup now! I even wasted 40 minutes downloading MSIE and still couldn'topenthe blasted thing! Any help is greatly appreciated! Steve Steve and Julie StillabowerIndianapolis, IN ICQ 19299644 from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Dec 3 13:23:15 1998 Subject: Re: Rod Design - Tight Loop Tip In a message dated 12/3/98 11:03:22 AM Pacific Standard Time,Turbotrk@aol.comwrites: Darryl, would it be too much to ask for the entire taper? I am just startingout and do not understand the whole picture. I have several rods with this tip design. Any paticularlength and line weight? Darryl from tdwill@stlmsd.com Thu Dec 3 13:32:07 1998 with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 03 Dec 1998 13:36:22 -0500 Subject: Shaple Rod? Hello Has any one on the list heard of a Shaple (Sp?) rod. This one has 3 pieceswith one tip, withn/s reel seat. Thanks Todd from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Dec 3 13:35:44 1998 Subject: Unknown Granger This one had the label removed, but it isdefinitely a Granger Granger Unknown 9ft. 6 weight 3 piece Tip 1 Tip 21 1/4 .078 .076 .078 .080 .082 .082 End of Tip Top5 .092 .088 .090 .094 .088 .09210 .105 .102 .105 .104 .106 .10515 .124 .120 .124 .125 .125 .12020 .137 .143 .138 .140 .141 .14025 .155 .150 .154 .154 .156 .15430 .171 .168 .168 .171 .170 .17134 .174 .174 .176 .178 .174 .17636 Ferrule40 .208 .206 .20645 .226 .228 .23050 .245 .248 .24555 .255 .256 .25660 .264 .265 .26565 .268 .267 .26870 .264 .268 .26772 Ferrule75 .295 .297 .29680 .300 .301 .30185 .317 .315 .31690 .330 .324 .33095 .337 .337 .339Butt swelled to .400 from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Dec 3 13:43:45 1998 via smap (4.1) 11:50:40 PST Subject: RE: Shaple Rod? Todd, There was a turn of the century into the 20's or so rod call Shapleigh or Sharpleigh I think. It was a better made trade rod I think. They have a star on the reelseat. If this could be the one you are referring to then someone on this list with historical books could give you moreinformation on it. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from djfinch@sprintmail.com Thu Dec 3 13:45:58 1998 Subject: Re: ff topic - computer ? 0C1941D18F1D43B74AC69581" --------------0C1941D18F1D43B74AC69581 Hey Steve, when I had trouble with my compaq I found out that compaq hadaforum that you can http://forum.compaq.com:80/mb3/user/main.html asksuchquestions try it. regards Greg. Steve Stillabower wrote: Hi All, Any of you computer folks out there, I have an odd question; I have a Compaq laptop (486/50) and yesterday I had to reinstallWindows95.That went [mostly] O.K., but now I CANNOT get a browser to open up.Netscape was my primary, but I can't even get MS Internet Explorer toopenup now! I even wasted 40 minutes downloading MSIE and still couldn'topenthe blasted thing! Any help is greatly appreciated! Steve Steve and Julie StillabowerIndianapolis, IN ICQ 19299644 --------------0C1941D18F1D43B74AC69581 Hey Steve, when I had trouble with mycompaqI found out that compaq had a forum that you can http://forum.compaq.com:80/mb3/user/main.html ask such questions try it. regards Greg. Steve Stillabower wrote:Hi All, Any of you computer folks out there, I have an odd question; I have a Compaq laptop (486/50) and yesterday I had to reinstallWindows95.That went [mostly] O.K., but now I CANNOT get a browser to open up.Netscape was my primary, but I can't even get MS Internet Explorerto open couldn'topenthe blasted thing! Any help is greatly appreciated! Steve Steve and Julie Stillabower <sjstill@iquest.net>ICQ 19299644 <http://www.freeyellow.com/members5/sjstill> --------------0C1941D18F1D43B74AC69581-- from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Dec 3 13:46:45 1998 via smap (4.1) 11:54:01 PST Subject: RE: Unknown Granger Darryl, Thanks for the taper. If you can give the wrap colors and pattern someone can probably identify the model, assuming they are original wraps. Thanks again. Chris mcdowellc@lanecc.edu from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Dec 3 14:51:58 1998 via smap (4.1) 12:58:35 PST Subject: Garrison 206 Can anyone who has made or cast this taper give their assesment of it's action, line wt. preference, good points, weak points etc. I'm looking at the taper posted at the Rodmakers website. This is described as a 7 1/2' with a #13 ferrule. Will this rod fish nicely at 35' but also shoot line to 60' when necessary? To be used on trout up to about 17". Thanks. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from RVenneri@aol.com Thu Dec 3 14:55:05 1998 Subject: Re: An Award AyeBob V from fiveside@net-gate.com Thu Dec 3 15:17:36 1998 (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA03401 for ;Thu, 3 Dec 1998 16:18:34 Subject: Binders Hi Ralph and Others, from my very first rods in the 60's my drive was to keep it simple. I usethe two-bobbin binder method with unbreakable waxed nylon cord. I pullhard.One bobbin goes CW, the other CCW, no twist hopefully. If twist developsnoway in hell it can be removed. Hence my view that this is the tightestbinding possible. With this method you can adjust or correct for twist bywrap sequence. This I discussed in some of my articles.With this method cord breaking strength is not a factor at all, and thewaxed nylon releases very nicely from the wonderful epon and probablyotherglues. Bill from rodsmiths@imt.net Thu Dec 3 16:22:32 1998 cu.imt.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) withSMTP id PAA20140 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 Subject: Re: Al Talbot Bamboo Rod? Bob Perry wrote: Posting for a friend: I'm looking for any info on Al Talbot split cane rods. This I do know:I know he passed away in july '89, he lived in Antioch, CA, he workedwith Jeff Walker at R.L. Winston rods. I have a very close friend who has two of his exquisite cane rods, givenas gifts by Al, which have never been used. They were built in 1983 orso. Any help would be appreciated.no size markings on the rods. I presume a 4 wt.and a 6 wt. both 9'.2 tips each. In supreme mint condition. TIA, Bob Hi Bob, I can give you quite a bit of information on Al Talbot. Al was a giftedmachinists for Crown Zellerback. Sometime during the late '60s hestopped by Winston rods and looked at their milling machine. The nextthing that happened was Al built a milling machine similar to theWinston machine. It was a slightly different design using ball bearingsinstead of oil bearings and had a different adjustment for verticalheight. He showed the machine to Gary Howells who was very impressed with theworkmanship and design of the machine. After some discussion Garyconvinced Al to build him a machine of similar design. This gave Garythe opportunity to leave Winston and start building rods on his own. Alremained friendly to Winston and would sharpen their carbide cutters. He also made several sets of carbide cutters for Winston. When I bought Winston in 1973 I became acquainted with Al. He continuedto work with Winston and we became good friends. The first thing that Ihad Al do was replace our maple rod patterns with micarta for greaterdurability and accuracy. I'm quite sure that Winston is still usingmany of these patterns. The Winston milling machine was very old and even though the design wassound it needed some refurbishing. Al built a new adjusting slide andup dated the bamboo hold downs. We continued using the milling machinewith Al's modifications. Then when I moved Winston to Montana I changedthe milling machine again adding a ball bearing spindle but continuingto use Al's modifications. The milling machine used by Winston is stillin that configuration. I spent many hours with Al both in his shop in California and fishing inMontana. We talked at length about rod tapers and rod design. Al and Iwould often go out in his back yard and cast his rods. Al built anumber of two piece rods. He also had a desire to build one piecerods. He worked out the design of a gluing machine that would beadjustable enough to glue one piece rods up to 8 1/2 feet in length. Istill own one of his one piece rods. In addition to the glue machine Albuilt a great heat treating oven. When he died I bought it from hiswife Virginia. I later traded it to Glenn Brackett at Winston. Theyare still using the oven to heat treat their bamboo. Al was always interested in doing everything himself. He made the diesto make his own pockets for his reel seats. He made several sets ofmale and female dies for me at Winston to punch out our reel seathoods. They were beautiful pieces of work. He made his own ferrulesusing nickel silver tubing that he got from Gary Howells. I kept Alsupplied with bamboo. I don't know how many rods Al ended up making. When he died GlennBrackett ended up selling all of Al's equipment for Virginia. If youcontact Glenn at Winston he may be able to provide you with a detailedrecord of Al's rods or know who has it. Al was also a very close friendof Glenn's. Al did a very good job of making and finishing his rods. He was a very talented individual in many areas. His contribution to usat Winston and to Gary Howells was invaluable. I learned much of mymachining skills and many of my ideas from Al. He could always becounted on to provide insight into our problems and help work outsolutions. When he died it was a great loss of a close friend and fellow rodmaker. He contributed a lot to the bamboo rod making processes atWinston. He never wanted to be well known and it's too bad that hehasn't gotten the recognition he deserved but that is how he wanted it. He did work with Jeff Walker at Winston in his later years but most ofhis work was done earlier with myself and Glenn. He actually live in Alamo, California. Tom Morgan from dpeaston@wzrd.com Thu Dec 3 16:46:31 1998 mail.wzrd.com (8.9.1/8.7.3) Subject: RE: Shaple Rod? At 11:46 AM 12/3/98 PST, mcdowellc@lanecc.edu wrote:Todd, There was a turn of the century into the 20's or so rod call Shapleigh or Sharpleigh I think. It was a better made trade rod I think. They have a star on the reelseat. If this could be the one you are referring to then someone on this list with historical books could give you moreinformation on it. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu Perhaps a Sharpes? A description of the ferrules and guides might help. If it is Sharpes (madein Scottland) the snakes would probably be the British reverse twist. Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Dec 3 16:56:55 1998 Subject: West Coast Rodmakers Gathering? I'm not saying I'm going to do it, but howmuch interest is there in a RodmakersGathering in Long Beach Californianext year about Spring or Summer?There might be a clubhouse with acasting pond that could be used.Fishing opportunities are somewhatlimited, this is in actuallity a desert ifthere wasn't a city built over it, unless ocean fishing is your thing, even then at that time of the year it might be sparse. The surroundings can't compete withCorbett Lake or Grayrock, Michigan,but it is within 45 minutes (with no traffic)of Los Angeles International Airport. Icould also probably coerce Mark Metcalfto participate. Any interest? Darryl from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Thu Dec 3 18:02:34 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Thu,3Dec 1998 19:01:52 -0500 Subject: Munro Rod Co... I really don't want to use the list, however, others felt obligated to comment so I figure to clear things up, I will. Just wanted to let everyone know why responses and such have not been responded to. According to my records, all orders have been shipped. If they have not, please respond off list to me directly. My server has been down for almost two weeks with sporatic messages getting through. I have responded to those messages and apologize if others did not make it through. When the server finally went back up and we could check messages, over 400 hit me. I have been slowly weeding through them one at a time. Keep in mind...E-mail is a great avenue, however the phone is significantly more reliable. Our 800# has been down as well for some reason but on the bottom of every message there is my local 607#. Feel free to call me at home if you are concerned. Take care, and I am glad to be back!Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.munrorodco.com from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Thu Dec 3 18:02:37 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Thu,3Dec 1998 19:01:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Monro Rod Com. Sorry Rick...the only message I have from you was about the Grobet files. Nothing has happened so far and I didn't know the message required an immediate response. I apologize for the delay...I still like you! Things have been going well...busy with school and interviewing, but well. Take care, On 3 Dec 98, at 9:00, Rick Crenshaw wrote: I've sent two e-mail messages to Jon over the last two or three weeks.None have been answered. I figure either he doesn't like me anymore ormaybe he's not getting the messages. Jon? Rick Crenshaw ANDREW LUU wrote: Hi all,I was wondering if any of you have tried to contact Munro Rod Company contact Munro Rod to get a total for the items I am interested inpurchasing but have not been sucessful. Do you know of any alternatesource for dept gauge base, calibrator, and 60* points?. Please advicebecause I like to get started in rod building in January. Thank youvery much for your help. Andy Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.munrorodco.com from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Thu Dec 3 18:37:49 1998 Subject: Re: Al Talbot Bamboo Rod? Well Tom, here I was innocently passing along a request for a friend andout you come with this GREAT history lesson. One of the best posts I'veread on rodmakers to date. When I pass this info to my friend I'm surehis mouth will drop open at his good fortune for you to take the timeto reply. Once again confirming what a valuable resource this internetis. What a wonderful tribute to Al. I'm so glad I asked. Regards, Bob On Thu, 3 Dec 1998, Tom Morgan & Gerri Carlson wrote: Bob Perry wrote: Posting for a friend: I'm looking for any info on Al Talbot split cane rods. This I do know:I know he passed away in july '89, he lived in Antioch, CA, he workedwith Jeff Walker at R.L. Winston rods. I have a very close friend who has two of his exquisite cane rods,givenas gifts by Al, which have never been used. They were built in 1983orso. Any help would be appreciated.no size markings on the rods. I presume a 4 wt.and a 6 wt. both 9'.2 tips each. In supreme mint condition. TIA, Bob Hi Bob, I can give you quite a bit of information on Al Talbot. Al was a giftedmachinists for Crown Zellerback. Sometime during the late '60s hestopped by Winston rods and looked at their milling machine. The nextthing that happened was Al built a milling machine similar to theWinston machine. It was a slightly different design using ball bearingsinstead of oil bearings and had a different adjustment for verticalheight. He showed the machine to Gary Howells who was very impressed withtheworkmanship and design of the machine. After some discussion Garyconvinced Al to build him a machine of similar design. This gave Garythe opportunity to leave Winston and start building rods on his own. Alremained friendly to Winston and would sharpen their carbide cutters. He also made several sets of carbide cutters for Winston. When I bought Winston in 1973 I became acquainted with Al. Hecontinuedto work with Winston and we became good friends. The first thing that Ihad Al do was replace our maple rod patterns with micarta for greaterdurability and accuracy. I'm quite sure that Winston is still usingmany of these patterns. The Winston milling machine was very old and even though the designwassound it needed some refurbishing. Al built a new adjusting slide andup dated the bamboo hold downs. We continued using the milling machinewith Al's modifications. Then when I moved Winston to Montana Ichangedthe milling machine again adding a ball bearing spindle but continuingto use Al's modifications. The milling machine used by Winston is stillin that configuration. I spent many hours with Al both in his shop in California and fishing inMontana. We talked at length about rod tapers and rod design. Al and Iwould often go out in his back yard and cast his rods. Al built anumber of two piece rods. He also had a desire to build one piecerods. He worked out the design of a gluing machine that would beadjustable enough to glue one piece rods up to 8 1/2 feet in length. Istill own one of his one piece rods. In addition to the glue machine Albuilt a great heat treating oven. When he died I bought it from hiswife Virginia. I later traded it to Glenn Brackett at Winston. Theyare still using the oven to heat treat their bamboo. Al was always interested in doing everything himself. He made the diesto make his own pockets for his reel seats. He made several sets ofmale and female dies for me at Winston to punch out our reel seathoods. They were beautiful pieces of work. He made his own ferrulesusing nickel silver tubing that he got from Gary Howells. I kept Alsupplied with bamboo. I don't know how many rods Al ended up making. When he died GlennBrackett ended up selling all of Al's equipment for Virginia. If youcontact Glenn at Winston he may be able to provide you with a detailedrecord of Al's rods or know who has it. Al was also a very close friendof Glenn's. Al did a very good job of making and finishing his rods. He was a very talented individual in many areas. His contribution to usat Winston and to Gary Howells was invaluable. I learned much of mymachining skills and many of my ideas from Al. He could always becounted on to provide insight into our problems and help work outsolutions. When he died it was a great loss of a close friend and fellow rodmaker. He contributed a lot to the bamboo rod making processes atWinston. He never wanted to be well known and it's too bad that hehasn't gotten the recognition he deserved but that is how he wanted it. He did work with Jeff Walker at Winston in his later years but most ofhis work was done earlier with myself and Glenn. He actually live in Alamo, California. Tom Morgan from emiller257@dataflo.net Thu Dec 3 18:59:57 1998 wddataflo.dataflo.net(8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA26997 for ;Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:07:55 Subject: Re: An Award Larry Blan wrote: Aye! WayneCatt@aol.comSent: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 6:38 PM Subject: An Award I suggest that Mike Biondo, the Grand TroutBum, be thekeeper of the awardbringing it to the different get togethers - all in favoraye!!! from MasjC1@aol.com Thu Dec 3 19:05:52 1998 Subject: Re: Rod Design - Tight Loop Tip Darryl, How about a 7' 4wt. Mark from ragnarig@integrityol.com Thu Dec 3 19:33:10 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id AE2C287F0148; Thu, 03 Dec 1998 17:43:08 PDT Subject: Re: Unknown Granger boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0083_01BE1EE2.A39D74C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0083_01BE1EE2.A39D74C0 I heartily second the following. God has a special place in Paradise = Davy Darryl, Thanks for the taper. If you can give the wrap colors and pattern = can probably identify the model, assuming they are original wraps. = again. mcdowellc@lanecc.edu ------=_NextPart_000_0083_01BE1EE2.A39D74C0 I heartily second the = has a special place in Paradise for those who share unselfishly of their = tapers! ------=_NextPart_000_0083_01BE1EE2.A39D74C0-- from jaquin@netsync.net Thu Dec 3 19:40:36 1998 quartz.netsync.net(8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA24167 for ;Thu, 3 Dec 1998 20:40:32-0500 Subject: Re: Monro Rod Com. Rick Crenshaw wrote: I've sent two e-mail messages to Jon over the last two or three weeks.None have been answered. I figure either he doesn't like me anymore ormaybe he's not getting the messages. Jon? Rick Crenshaw ANDREW LUU wrote: Hi all,I was wondering if any of you have tried to contact Munro Rod Companyforthe past week or so?. Is their server down?. I have been trying tocontact Munro Rod to get a total for the items I am interested inpurchasing but have not been sucessful. Do you know of any alternatesource for dept gauge base, calibrator, and 60* points?. Please advicebecause I like to get started in rod building in January. Thank you verymuch for your help.AndyJon was on vacation over the Thanksgiving weekend, but is back atschool/business now. If still having trouble with e- mail, call him at607-277-4510 evenings. jerry from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Dec 3 19:56:42 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Monro Rod Com. Rick, Andy and rest,Give Jon a call at his phone # 607-277-4510. This is what I do and I havenever failed to reach him. The e-mail is nice but sometimes not toreliable.I think Jon was gone for the Thanksgiving weekend but he is probably backnow.Bret from bacon@idt.net Thu Dec 3 20:06:04 1998 Subject: Re: West Coast Rodmakers Gathering? SalarFly@aol.com wrote: I'm not saying I'm going to do it, but howmuch interest is there in a RodmakersGathering in Long Beach Californianext year about Spring or Summer?There might be a clubhouse with acasting pond that could be used.Fishing opportunities are somewhatlimited, this is in actuallity a desert ifthere wasn't a city built over it, unlessocean fishing is your thing, even thenat that time of the year it might be sparse. The surroundings can't compete withCorbett Lake or Grayrock, Michigan,but it is within 45 minutes (with no traffic)of Los Angeles International Airport. Icould also probably coerce Mark Metcalfto participate. Any interest? Darryldarryl,yes, thank you..not expecting anythingjean from jaquin@netsync.net Thu Dec 3 20:08:17 1998 quartz.netsync.net(8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA27439 for ;Thu, 3 Dec 1998 21:08:14-0500 Subject: Re: West Coast Rodmakers Gathering? SalarFly@aol.com wrote: I'm not saying I'm going to do it, but howmuch interest is there in a RodmakersGathering in Long Beach Californianext year about Spring or Summer?There might be a clubhouse with acasting pond that could be used.Fishing opportunities are somewhatlimited, this is in actuallity a desert ifthere wasn't a city built over it, unlessocean fishing is your thing, even thenat that time of the year it might be sparse. The surroundings can't compete withCorbett Lake or Grayrock, Michigan,but it is within 45 minutes (with no traffic)of Los Angeles International Airport. Icould also probably coerce Mark Metcalfto participate. Any interest? Darrylhi darryl, i would be interested in a summer gathering. I would havemore vacation time then, and could combine it with a visit to mydaughter in San Diego. keep me informed of any plans. thanks jerry from drinkr@voicenet.com Thu Dec 3 20:18:36 1998 0000 (207.103.128.68) boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01BE1F02.18A4C600" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01BE1F02.18A4C600 Just checking I havent been recieving any mail lately so I was wonderingifmy connection is OK ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01BE1F02.18A4C600 checking I havent been recieving any mail lately so I was wondering if = connection is OK ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01BE1F02.18A4C600-- from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Thu Dec 3 20:52:07 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Thu,3Dec 1998 21:51:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Oven I finally made it through a small part of the messages which hit me after our server went back up. Thanks to everybody for responding about the oven. On 2 Dec 98, at 21:11, Ian Kearney wrote: Jon, I made mine very similar to Ric, but with a couple of furthermodifications. I found that a further 8 inch pipe around the outside ofthe 6 inch pipe made a lot of difference to the ability to hold a fairlysteady temperature. I stuffed some fibreglass insulation between theouterpipe and the 6 inch pipe. This seemed to give me a more constant andhigher temperature. I also found that I had a fairly large temperature differential betweenthe top of the "cooking" pipe and the bottom . I then put a one inch pipeabout 3 foot long inside the 6" pipe with the heat gun going into the topof the 1 inch pipe so that the hot air is being delivered close to thebottom inlet to the "cooking". This seems to have resulted in a moreconstant temperature in the cooking tube , about 20 degree range top tobottom , and also a higher temperature . I keep mine standing in the corner of the garage and take it outside whentreating bamboo. The clear space above makes it easier to turn the stripsaround , (but then we do not get any snow here) . I do not have the cap over the 4" pipe but let the hot air exhaust out thetop . Maybe that is why I have trouble getting over 325 degrees ? . At thesame time the strips tend to start to burn after 4 minutes. I find it iseasy and quick to turn the strips around if there is an opening at thetop. I cook for 4 minutes from cold , pull the strips out and reverse them, and cook for 3.5 minutes for the second spell and end up with light tanstrips. Iank At 06:58 PM 1/12/98 -0600, you wrote:Jon Lintvet wrote: I was wondering if anyone out here has made Frank Neuemans(sp)oven? Reason: For the top, does it cover only the larger diameterpipe or the smaller one as well?Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510http://www.munrorodco.com Jon, I made an oven very similar to Frank Neuneman's version. The outershellis a single wall 6" duct pipe. The inner chamber is a 4" single wallduct. The 4" is inserted in the 6" duct and attached with screws alongone tangential point the length of the ducts. a hole large enough to insert the heatgun tip. What you are doing iscovering the 6" duct except for allowing the heatgun to be inserted andleaving the 4" duct open for the exhaust. Does that make sense? To complete the oven, I set the whole shebang on a standard 6" starterflange, then screw the flange to a fireresistant base. I used a piece of1"x12" oak with a firewall of sheetmetal and insulation. Using thestarter flange extends the length of the 6" duct by about 4"-5" and soallows the hot air some room to go up into the 4" duct and exhaust pastthe cane and out. I used a 4" elbow with some wire hooks inserted inthebend to direct the exhaust away from the heatgun. The hooks arecenteredover the 4" duct and I hang my cane from them. Some folks lay the ovenon its side and just slide the cane in. The oven is wrapped in 1" offiberglass insulation I had lying around. The cheap $40 Wagner heatgun I got at Sears heats the oven up to 375degrees on a setting of 8 (max) and I find I can hold temperatures from200 to 375 depending on the setting and outside temperature. I'vemovedthe oven to my attic as it only takes about 1-1/2 square feet of floorspace. Rick C. P.S. e-mail me regarding the Grobet files. (sorry list) Jon Lintvet140 East Spencer StreetIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-4510 http://www.munrorodco.com from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Dec 3 20:53:12 1998 Fri, 4 Dec 1998 10:52:39 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: An Award On Thu, 3 Dec 1998, Jim Tefft wrote: A suggestion from a lurker. Have Mike create a awards section on theweb page andphotograph the award and post it for all to see.Then Tony could get to see it from his easy chair. Jim T Hey, now *that's* an idea! Tony from LECLAIR123@aol.com Thu Dec 3 21:09:41 1998 Subject: Re: Dave,I'm reading you ok. Dave from jwilcox@netsync.net Thu Dec 3 22:01:01 1998 quartz.netsync.net(8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA09297 for ;Thu, 3 Dec 1998 23:00:59-0500 Subject: frank neunemann,s oven boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00A3_01BE1F10.BD6C9420" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00A3_01BE1F10.BD6C9420 jon, i built one of frank's ovens as per the specs in The Best of the =Planing Form. my only modification was that i used 6" OD double walled =stove pipe for the outside shell. i wrapped fiberglass insulation =around the outside. i use a makita variable temp(600-1100 degree) heat =gun. i mounted the unit on a piece of eight inch channel iron. the oven =works like a charm. the oven easily heats to 400 degrees which is more =than enough for anything that is required for our needs. i have used the =oven for heat-treating and post- curing urac. the streaming hot air =design doesn't require any flipping of the sticks. i have found no =evidence of charring with this oven. i use a candy thermometer at the =midpoint of the heat chamber to monitor the oven temperature. i have =about $50 in this oven(the double wall pipe is somewhat expensive, but i =think it is worth the extra cost in insulation value). build this oven! =you won't be disappointed. if you need more information, don't =hesitate to ask. jim wilcox ------=_NextPart_000_00A3_01BE1F10.BD6C9420 jon, i built one of frank's ovens as= inch channel iron. the oven works like a charm. the oven easily heats to = degrees which is more than enough for anything that is required for our = $50 in this oven(the double wall pipe is somewhat expensive, but i think = ------=_NextPart_000_00A3_01BE1F10.BD6C9420-- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Dec 3 22:22:21 1998 Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:22:05 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: ff topic - computer ? Could be anything the anti christ (Bill) has embedded in the code, but it *may* be a conflict with ICP/PPP being pathed incorrectly. It may beworth re-installing the entire internet software again. Tony On Thu, 3 Dec 1998, Steve Stillabower wrote: Hi All, Any of you computer folks out there, I have an odd question; I have a Compaq laptop (486/50) and yesterday I had to reinstallWindows95.That went [mostly] O.K., but now I CANNOT get a browser to open up.Netscape was my primary, but I can't even get MS Internet Explorer toopenup now! I even wasted 40 minutes downloading MSIE and still couldn'topenthe blasted thing! Any help is greatly appreciated! Steve Steve and Julie StillabowerIndianapolis, IN ICQ 19299644 /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Dec 3 22:30:42 1998 (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP Subject: Re: Monro Rod Com. Remember that Jon is a student...it may be getting close to time for finals. George Bourke -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Monro Rod Com. I've sent two e-mail messages to Jon over the last two or three weeks.None have been answered. I figure either he doesn't like me anymore ormaybe he's not getting the messages. Jon? Rick Crenshaw ANDREW LUU wrote: Hi all,I was wondering if any of you have tried to contact Munro Rod Companyforthe past week or so?. Is their server down?. I have been trying tocontact Munro Rod to get a total for the items I am interested inpurchasing but have not been sucessful. Do you know of any alternatesource for dept gauge base, calibrator, and 60* points?. Please advicebecause I like to get started in rod building in January. Thank you verymuch for your help.Andy from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Dec 3 22:41:24 1998 (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP Subject: Re: Garrison 206 Chris, What do you do to discourage trout OVER 17"? Sorry, couldn't resist.George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Garrison 206 Can anyone who has made or cast this taper give their assesment of it'saction, line wt. preference, good points, weak points etc. I'm looking atthe taper posted at the Rodmakers website. This is described as a 7 1/2'with a #13 ferrule. Will this rod fish nicely at 35' but also shoot lineto 60' when necessary? To be used on trout up to about 17". Thanks. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Dec 3 22:49:04 1998 (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP Subject: Re: West Coast Rodmakers Gathering? I would be interested. (If you do organize one, I stand a much betterchance of going if it occurs in summer...spring is going to be awfully busyat work.) George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: West Coast Rodmakers Gathering? I'm not saying I'm going to do it, but howmuch interest is there in a RodmakersGathering in Long Beach Californianext year about Spring or Summer?There might be a clubhouse with acasting pond that could be used.Fishing opportunities are somewhatlimited, this is in actuallity a desert ifthere wasn't a city built over it, unlessocean fishing is your thing, even thenat that time of the year it might be sparse. The surroundings can't compete withCorbett Lake or Grayrock, Michigan,but it is within 45 minutes (with no traffic)of Los Angeles International Airport. Icould also probably coerce Mark Metcalfto participate. Any interest? Darryl from saweiss@flash.net Thu Dec 3 23:01:18 1998 Subject: Re: West Coast Rodmakers Gathering? Any interest? Darryl,I am interested. My brother-in-law lives in the area, so my wife wouldfavorthe idea.Steve from tbeckfam@pacbell.net Thu Dec 3 23:10:12 1998 mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id VAA11873 for Subject: Re: West Coast Rodmakers Gathering? SalarFly@aol.com wrote: I'm not saying I'm going to do it, but howmuch interest is there in a RodmakersGathering in Long Beach Californianext year about Spring or Summer?There might be a clubhouse with acasting pond that could be used.Fishing opportunities are somewhatlimited, this is in actuallity a desert ifthere wasn't a city built over it, unlessocean fishing is your thing, even thenat that time of the year it might be sparse. The surroundings can't compete withCorbett Lake or Grayrock, Michigan,but it is within 45 minutes (with no traffic)of Los Angeles International Airport. Icould also probably coerce Mark Metcalfto participate. Any interest? Darryl I live in Orange and would definately attend. How about trying to getaccess to Oso resivoir or going to deep creek?Traver Becker p.s. Where do you live Darryl? from channer@hubwest.com Fri Dec 4 00:57:12 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A835354013C; Thu, 03 Dec 1998 23:59:01 MST Subject: Tony Young I hope the list will forgive me for this, but e- mail to Tony keeps comingback as undeliverable and I am not about to call Australia and snail mailis too slow. Tony;The ferrules are very nice. Can you send me a set of 13/64 for a single tiprod? John from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Fri Dec 4 01:44:55 1998 (5.5.2232.9) Subject: RE: Tony Young John I also seem to be experiencing problems getting e-mail through to Tony.I'll probably see him this weekend so I'll pass your message on and let himknow there seems to be a glitch in the system. May the trout be with you Mike R -----Original Message----- Subject: Tony Young I hope the list will forgive me for this, but e- mail to Tony keeps comingback as undeliverable and I am not about to call Australia and snail mailis too slow. Tony;The ferrules are very nice. Can you send me a set of 13/64 for a single tiprod? John from Canerods@aol.com Fri Dec 4 07:05:36 1998 Subject: Re: West Coast Rodmakers Gathering? Darryl, AOL must have eaten your original post - but count me in. There's some public casting ponds up in the San Fernando Valley that wecoulduse, if you guys what to drive a bit. Their's a public casting pond in the Balboa Dam Rec. area. Plus the Sierra Pacific Fly Fisher club holds an annual free beginnerscastingclass at Balboa Park, just a little further off the I-405/I- 101interchange.We use the clubhouse and the small pond for 4 saturdays each spring andhaveupwards of 60 people attend the classes. (30+ in class & 30+ on the pond) Ican find out about the cost, if any, to rent the clubhouse if there's anyinterest. Closer to "world-famous" Piru Creek too. Don Burns from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Dec 4 08:26:37 1998 Fri, 4 Dec 1998 22:26:25 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: email problems Just in case anybody out there in the datashpere has tried contacting me.I've had a couple of wierd things happen lately with email which I've only just discovered has been happening for a while, so if anybody has resend.I have a pay by the min account which is cheap for mail but the drawback is I have to use email on line so if anything goes bang, well..... John Channer, I got your message via the list and I replyed privatly so if it hasn't made it to you I guess let me know via the list. Sorry to put you all through this. Bloody computers. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Dec 4 08:48:36 1998 (modemcable19.174.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.09.21.23.34)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, Subject: Planing forms BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_oxlMLf22dGx9vKKdcCqX8w)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_oxlMLf22dGx9vKKdcCqX8w) BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_CFrHqSu9fSKa4C4E3QkwBw)" --Boundary_(ID_CFrHqSu9fSKa4C4E3QkwBw) A few of us are having our planing forms made by a local machinist. Themachinist informed us yesterday that the cold-rolled steel has warped abitwhen milled on the planing side. Since cold rolled steel is the materialmost often suggested for planing forms, I suspect warped planing formsmustbe quite common among members of this list. Does such a warpage (in ourcase, about one inch) affect precision planing? Can we just clamp downtheends? Should we panic? Thanks in advance Richard richard.nantel@videotron.ca --Boundary_(ID_CFrHqSu9fSKa4C4E3QkwBw) of us are having our planing forms made by a local machinist. The = informed us yesterday that the cold-rolled steel has warped a bit when = the planing side. Since cold rolled steel is the material most often = members of this list. Does such a warpage (in our case, about one inch) = panic? in advance Richard richard.nantel@videotron.ca --Boundary_(ID_CFrHqSu9fSKa4C4E3QkwBw)-- --Boundary_(ID_oxlMLf22dGx9vKKdcCqX8w) mail).vcf" BEGIN:VCARDVERSION:2.1N:Nantel;Richard;;;FN:Richard Nantel (E-mail)ORG:Le groupe MENTOR;TITLE:TEL;WORK;VOICE:(514) 393- 3292TEL;HOME;VOICE:(514) 485-2287TEL;PAGER;VOICE:[1] (514) 111- 1111TEL;WORK;FAX:(514) 393-1483ADR;WORK:;;4374 Old Orchard Avenue;Monteal;Quebec;H4A 3B4;CanadaLABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:4374 Old Orchard =Avenue=3D0D=3D0AMonteal, Quebec H4A 3B4=3D0D=3D0ACanadaADR;HOME:;;4374 Old Orchard Avenue;Monteal;Quebec;H4A 3B4;CanadaLABEL;HOME;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:4374 Old Orchard =Avenue=3D0D=3D0AMonteal, Quebec H4A 3B4=3D0D=3D0ACanadaEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:richard.nantel@videotron.caREV:19980514T133343ZEND:VCARD --Boundary_(ID_oxlMLf22dGx9vKKdcCqX8w)-- from chuckt@jetlink.net Fri Dec 4 09:12:20 1998 178.isdn.jetlink.net 178.isdn.jetlink.net [208.19.49.178]didn't use HELO protocol Subject: Re: West Coast Rodmakers Gathering? I am new at this rodbuilding, but count me in. I live in Ventura,CA Charles Tello from Turbotrk@aol.com Fri Dec 4 09:17:14 1998 Subject: Re: Planing forms Richard, I am currently making two sets of steel planning forms. Yes thesteel is not perfect when you buy it. You must make sure that you make itasstraight as possible. Wayne said to use an India stone and on Premrosespagehe uses a file. The most important part is clamping the forms straight. The steel Iboughthas very good 90 degree angles. If it is clamped right and you drill rightthen the forms should not be out by very much at all. I am not an expert on this. This is just my opinion. stuart miller from anglport@con2.com Fri Dec 4 10:20:07 1998 Subject: Re: Planing forms Richard,If the warp is going to affect the milling, I think you're out of luck. Butif it will only appear after they've been built ( and all the parts will bealigned with each other) I don't think you need to worry. There's a passagein the Garrison book where Garry's forms were used by a repairman as acrowbar and bent slightly soon after he got them. He continued to use them mortals, to quibble?Best of luck, Art At 09:49 AM 12/4/98 -0500, you wrote:A few of us are having our planing forms made by a local machinist.The machinist informed us yesterday that the cold-rolled steel haswarpeda bit when milled on the planing side. Since cold rolled steel is thematerial most often suggested for planing forms, I suspect warpedplaningforms must be quite common among members of this list. Does such awarpage(in our case, about one inch) affect precision planing? Can we just clampdown the ends? Should we panic? Thanks in advance Richard richard.nantel@videotron.ca Attachment Converted:"c:\eudora\attach\Richard Nantel (E-mail)6.vcf" from jjohnso4@bellsouth.net Fri Dec 4 10:33:20 1998 LAA01284 Subject: Re: Planing forms At 11:19 AM 12/4/98 -0500, Art wrote:Richard,If the warp is going to affect the milling, I think you're out of luck. Butif it will only appear after they've been built ( and all the parts will bealigned with each other) I don't think you need to worry.Art Hi Art, I think both you and Stuart miss-read what Richard is saying. I believehe's saying that the cold rolled steel warped when one side was milled tomake it flat. That's pretty common with CRS due to the internal stressesthat are built up when the steel is being made. I wonder sometimes if HRSmight not be a better material for people who are having their formsmachined and a lot of material is being removed. Later,Johnny----------------------------------------------Johnny JohnsonLilburn, GA from caneboy@xtn.net Fri Dec 4 11:17:43 1998 Subject: Re: Planing forms You can try stress relieved HRS. Sisken Steel or Ryerson sells it. Nocommercial endorsement of course for the list, just advice. Johnny Johnson wrote: At 11:19 AM 12/4/98 -0500, Art wrote:Richard,If the warp is going to affect the milling, I think you're out of luck. Butif it will only appear after they've been built ( and all the parts will bealigned with each other) I don't think you need to worry.Art Hi Art, I think both you and Stuart miss-read what Richard is saying. I believehe's saying that the cold rolled steel warped when one side was milledtomake it flat. That's pretty common with CRS due to the internalstressesthat are built up when the steel is being made. I wonder sometimes ifHRSmight not be a better material for people who are having their formsmachined and a lot of material is being removed. Later,Johnny----------------------------------------------Johnny JohnsonLilburn, GA from briansr@point-net.com Fri Dec 4 11:54:02 1998 0000 Subject: Re:planning forms Hello listThe planing forms in question were welded together( no clamps needed)drilled reamed & the required tapping done assembled & then milled on oneside (Upper or lower ,your choice) That's when the bars "bolted" We'rehoping that milling the other side will "relieve' the situation. The stuffwas clamped down for the milling and as Art pointed out,you can still usethem for leavering a car out of a snow bank and go back to planing on themafterwards. I'm going to magnetize mine,and by putting the convex sidedownuse it to find the magnetic north pole. I think if I was to do it again Iwould use a lot finer pitch, different size of bolt( Preferably gettiing myown differential screws made)Bars would be Aluminiun or brass. Cheers and thanks everyone for the input Brian . from Turbotrk@aol.com Fri Dec 4 12:33:31 1998 Subject: tapping holes Hey I just learned somthing while buying parts to make my first set ofsteelforms.The tap should be what is called a gun tap. They say that is the best. Alsothey told me to use the three flute as it will not bind as easy. The next interesting thing I was told is that you must use a number F drillbit for the hole that you are going to tap. Wayne's book says to use a 1/4"if I am reading it correctly. The F bit is a bit larger then the 1/4" and themachinest told me that is why so many have broken their taps off. Anyone disagree with this new found wisdom? I sure you will let meknow stuart miller soon to be a rod builderboy I can't wait till I stop typing that from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Dec 4 12:40:35 1998 (modemcable19.174.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.09.21.23.34)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, Subject: RE: Planing forms Hi Art, Thanks for comforting words. from what I understand, the warp will notbe anissue in the construction of the forms since everything is securelyclampeddown for the drilling, tapping, and milling of the tapered V-groove. So,everything will line up perfectly. Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Planing forms Richard,If the warp is going to affect the milling, I think you're out of luck. Butif it will only appear after they've been built ( and all the parts will bealigned with each other) I don't think you need to worry. There's a passagein the Garrison book where Garry's forms were used by a repairman as acrowbar and bent slightly soon after he got them. He continued to use them mortals, to quibble?Best of luck,Art At 09:49 AM 12/4/98 -0500, you wrote:A few of us are having our planing forms made by a local machinist.The machinist informed us yesterday that the cold-rolled steel haswarpeda bit when milled on the planing side. Since cold rolled steel is thematerial most often suggested for planing forms, I suspect warpedplaningforms must be quite common among members of this list. Does such awarpage(in our case, about one inch) affect precision planing? Can we just clampdown the ends? Should we panic? Thanks in advance Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca Attachment Converted:"c:\eudora\attach\Richard Nantel (E-mail)6.vcf" from arnold.jl@pg.com Fri Dec 4 12:44:34 1998 1998)) id852566D0.0066EA97 ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:44:07 -0500 Subject: Rod straightening Does anyone on the list use the straightening method that uses steelplatesand your planing form? This method was published in the Sept/Oct 1997Planing Form Newsletter and written by Carl O'Connor. I was justwonderingif the results are as claimed in the article. I am planning on using thismethod on my tip sections and will be happy to report the results. If youare using this method please respond. TIA, Jeff from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Fri Dec 4 12:47:31 1998 Subject: Re:planning forms I think that your first sentence tells the reason for the warpage."The planing forms in question were welded together( no clamps needed)."The welding of the pieces together added additional stresses to themetal. It may come out when the other side is milled. No where inWayne's book or Pemrose's page does it say to weld the steel piecestogether. They always talk about clamping the pieces together. Clamp and file or stone then drill or and tap then mill or file thetaper. Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net from wgray@uidaho.edu Fri Dec 4 12:48:49 1998Received: from Subject: Re: Planing forms In Garrison's book he notes that someone removing rocks for him used one of the bars of his forms for a pry bar and bent the end. He used it for many years and made great rods with it. FYI, last May I was in Chicago and had some free time. The Orvis shop at No Michigan and Ontario had several copies of Garrison's book, in slipcases and shrinkwrap for about $75. Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 09:49:21 -0500 From: Richard Nantel Subject: Planing forms A few of us are having our planing forms made by a local machinist. Themachinist informed us yesterday that the cold-rolled steel has warped abitwhen milled on the planing side. Since cold rolled steel is the materialmost often suggested for planing forms, I suspect warped planing formsmustbe quite common among members of this list. Does such a warpage (inourcase, about one inch) affect precision planing? Can we just clamp downtheends? Should we panic? Thanks in advance Richard richard.nantel@videotron.ca *********************************************************** A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul. George Bernard Shaw,1944******************************************************** C. Wilson Gray Ph 208.736.3622P O Box 1827 Fax 736.0843Twin Falls, ID 83303-1827 UI, Twin Falls R&E Center email wgray@uidaho.edu ******************************************************** from GLohkamp@aol.com Fri Dec 4 12:51:55 1998 Subject: Re:Forms l prefer the HRS for making forms because of the warping problem .Alsothe 3/4 x3/4 bar that is common for this is a little small , use somethinglike 3/4 x 1 1/8 . The extra height has many advantages as well asmaking adamn nice tool . Gary Lohkamp from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Fri Dec 4 13:25:56 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id NAA30282 for; Fri, 4 (8.8.4/8.6.8) with SMTP idNAA02983 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:25:45 - Subject: Re: Rod straightening I did this on one rod and it came out perfect and the next rod cameout crooked. As I thought about it afterward (too late, as usual), I came to thisconclusion: If you have the rod section straight going in, the formwill hold it straight until the glue dries. But if you use the formto try to press the section straight, when you remove it from the form it may well spring back to where it was. Also, it doesn't help with twists, and you can only clamp one rodsection at a time.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Fri, 4 Dec 1998 arnold.jl@pg.com wrote: Does anyone on the list use the straightening method that uses steelplatesand your planing form? This method was published in the Sept/Oct 1997Planing Form Newsletter and written by Carl O'Connor. I was justwonderingif the results are as claimed in the article. I am planning on using thismethod on my tip sections and will be happy to report the results. If youare using this method please respond. TIA, Jeff from LUU@NMDHST.CC.NIH.GOV Fri Dec 4 13:29:41 1998 Subject: Re: tapping holes Stuart,I came across the same issue a couple of days ago. I went to buy the5/16"setscrew and the saleswoman told me to use an F drill bit for the tappingholes. Then I went to Home Depot to buy the 5/16" tap bit, I found thatthe the 5/16 tap bit they sell came with a G drill bit. Is there amachinist out there who could clarify this issue?. Thank you.Andy Hey I just learned somthing while buying parts to make my first set ofsteelforms.The tap should be what is called a gun tap. They say that is the best. Alsothey told me to use the three flute as it will not bind as easy. The next interesting thing I was told is that you must use a number Fdrillbit for the hole that you are going to tap. Wayne's book says to use a 1/4"if I am reading it correctly. The F bit is a bit larger then the 1/4" and themachinest told me that is why so many have broken their taps off. Anyone disagree with this new found wisdom? I sure you will let meknow stuart millersoon to be a rod builderboy I can't wait till I stop typing that from stpete@netten.net Fri Dec 4 13:45:55 1998 cedar.netten.net(8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA03821 for ;Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:45:53 Subject: Re: Rod straightening Jeff, I used the method on the rod I'm working on now. The tip came outpretty darn straight. But I will say that I rolled that bugger aroundquite abit before putting it on the form. It was fairly straight when Iput it on the form. The form just made the rod that little bitstraighter. The main reason I put the rod on the form was to make sureit wasn't twisted. I had a really hard time telling if the rod wastwisted or not. I used Epon and kept the rod on the form for about 18 hours, strippedthe binding cord off, then placed them back in the forms for another 24hours or so. I was happy with it. But I will qualify my endorsement bysaying that I don't know if I would rely on the method for straighteninga badly twisted or kinked section. Wouldn't the tension on the bamboostill be there? Rick C.arnold.jl@pg.com wrote: Does anyone on the list use the straightening method that uses steelplatesand your planing form? This method was published in the Sept/Oct 1997Planing Form Newsletter and written by Carl O'Connor. I was justwonderingif the results are as claimed in the article. I am planning on using thismethod on my tip sections and will be happy to report the results. If youare using this method please respond. TIA, Jeff from stpete@netten.net Fri Dec 4 13:51:23 1998 cedar.netten.net(8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA04180 for ;Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:51:21 Subject: Re: tapping holes Stuart is buying his supplies at the same place I bought mine. I cansay that I used the F drill and the 5/16-18 tap and it worked like acharm. I used a two flute tap (after starting it with a four flute) and thechips cleared out in two long pieces - no backing the bit up andclearing out chips! Perhaps the three flute bit will work as well. As far as CRS vs. HRS, I've been told that if you are milling the forms,stay away from CRS as it will definitely warp and there is little or nocontrol over it. If you can clamp the forms down to the mill bedsecurely and perfectly straight, you might get lucky and the forms willstraighten back up to a degree. I would not count on that however. Rick C. from chris@artistree.com Fri Dec 4 14:22:27 1998 Subject: Re: Rod straightening I use the steel plate on form every time now. Use URAC 185 for gluing,roll my bound blank on flat surface to straighten, place in form w/steel plate on top for about 20 mins. Does seem to help a bit as you cancompare the straightness of the blank to the parallel lines of the formsgroove. By placing in the forms it can also help to see any potentialtwists which you may or may not be able to work out by using the steelplate's weight. More often I find that I can twist a tip section backinto alignment and use the steel plate to hold it in place while gluesets up. Got to work quickly and calming as the URAC sets up fast.-- Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com arnold.jl@pg.com wrote: Does anyone on the list use the straightening method that uses steelplatesand your planing form? This method was published in the Sept/Oct 1997Planing Form Newsletter and written by Carl O'Connor. I was justwonderingif the results are as claimed in the article. I am planning on using thismethod on my tip sections and will be happy to report the results. If youare using this method please respond. TIA, Jeff from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri Dec 4 14:24:50 1998 (5.5.2407.0) Subject: RE: tapping holes the forms that I bought a few years ago were warped so when I had a newsetof forms made. I talked to a machinist buddy of mine about it and he toldmeto have the bevel planed not milled and it would hardly warped and he wasright. I called some machine shops is here in Seattle and found 2 or 3 places that could plane it in full length passes. ----------From: Rick Crenshaw[SMTP:stpete@netten.net] Sent: Friday, December 04, 1998 11:46 AM Subject: Re: tapping holes Stuart is buying his supplies at the same place I bought mine. I cansay that I used the F drill and the 5/16-18 tap and it worked like acharm. I used a two flute tap (after starting it with a four flute) and thechips cleared out in two long pieces - no backing the bit up andclearing out chips! Perhaps the three flute bit will work as well. As far as CRS vs. HRS, I've been told that if you are milling the forms,stay away from CRS as it will definitely warp and there is little or nocontrol over it. If you can clamp the forms down to the mill bedsecurely and perfectly straight, you might get lucky and the forms willstraighten back up to a degree. I would not count on that however. Rick C. from RVenneri@aol.com Fri Dec 4 15:09:38 1998 Subject: Re: tapping holes Your info is 100% correct. Most tap charts call for an F drill. Also get thebest tapping fluid you can buy. Try to get something that is recomendedfortaping Bob V from RVenneri@aol.com Fri Dec 4 15:11:03 1998 Subject: Re: Planing forms Some times when working with CRS when you mill one side it will warp.Sometimes if you turn it over and mill the oppisite side some of thewarpagecomes out. Not perfect but better than just milling one side. Bob V from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Fri Dec 4 15:59:56 1998 Subject: Re: tapping holes Machinery's Handbook says for 5/16-18 thread use an "F" drill. Ofcourse I've had this edition of Machinery's since my college Drafting,Machine Shop days of 1964. That's what I used to drill my forms. Fortapping use "Tap Magic" if you can find it. It works great. Probablyhave to get it at an industrial machinery supply house. Hardware storeswon't have it and won't know what your talking about. Usual disclaimer on the brand of cutting fluid. I've just used it andit works. Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net from jaquin@netsync.net Fri Dec 4 17:10:48 1998 quartz.netsync.net (8.8.5/8.6.12)with SMTP id SAA29408 for ; Fri, 4 Dec1998 18:10:43 -0500 Subject: Re: tapping holes Turbotrk@aol.com wrote: Hey I just learned somthing while buying parts to make my first set ofsteelforms.The tap should be what is called a gun tap. They say that is the best. Alsothey told me to use the three flute as it will not bind as easy. The next interesting thing I was told is that you must use a number Fdrillbit for the hole that you are going to tap. Wayne's book says to use a1/4"if I am reading it correctly. The F bit is a bit larger then the 1/4" andthemachinest told me that is why so many have broken their taps off. Anyone disagree with this new found wisdom? I sure you will let meknow stuart millersoon to be a rod builderboy I can't wait till I stop typing thathi stuart, I haven't heard of three flute taps, they may exist. I usedtwo flute taps, which will not bind nearly as much as four flute tapswill. took 1 1/2 to 2 hours to tap the planing forms by hand. plug gunstyle taps are typically used for tapping through holes, like in ourforms. I used a 1/4 inch drill, but going to a letter F won't hurt, andmay make tapping easier. good luck1 jerry from gjflyfsh@juno.com Fri Dec 4 17:22:10 1998 18:21:45 EST Subject: Re: Monro Rod Com. I heard from Jon today and my order may have been lost. He has sent outanother. Can't ask for more than that. jerry johnson from sats@gte.net Fri Dec 4 18:24:06 1998 Subject: Re: Montague - decals/ ETHICS OK say the original decal is intact but the rod needs restored doesrestoringit with original type wraps, guides, thread etc. make it more valuable? Itisstill a restored rod with not the original wraps etc. Replacing ANYTHING on a rod with something that didn't come from thefactorythat made the rod, means that it's been restored and is not as valuable asanoriginal. The loss in value depends on the quality of the workmanship. But this is the value put on a rod by collectors and not fishermen. To my mind a rod is to be fished. I wouldn't pay a cent more for one with adecal then without. Same way with thread and anything else. If I'mgoingafter a restoration, I might replace one brand of thread with another I'mgoingafter color, shape, etc. NOT authenticity. If I'm fishing the rod I might use entirely different (and larger) guides andtiptop, Nylon thread, acrylic or polly finish. I might replace the reel seatand even the cork. Authentic? Nope.Restored? No.Fun to fish? youbet. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net So if replacing thesethings with new stuff is OK then what is wrong with using a reproductiondecalif it like all the rest of the stuff is authentic looking to the originalstuff. Say Bob Summers rewraps, reguides and revarnishes a Payne usingoriginal color wraps etc. it is still restored and being passed off thatway.So my point is if there is someone who is going to make original lookingdecals for restorations I think there is a place for it. I don't think it isanymore unethical than replacing the rest of the stuff on the rod(s) in arestoration project.Bret from sats@gte.net Fri Dec 4 18:24:08 1998 Subject: Re: Montague - decals/ ETHICS I think we may be obsessing a bit here. There is no other area, at leastthat I know of, in which there would be "ethical questions" as regards therestoration of an original article to its original condition. Making aforgery quality decal is only a bad idea if it is to be used in a forgery.Markings, fittings and finish may and should be brought as close aspossibleto the standard intended by the original maker. Authorized repairmen areregularly supplied with decals, colors and other distinctive markings toaidin the restoration of everything from electric guitars to schoolbuses,usually by the manufacturer.The National Air and Space Museum restores aircraft to "near originalcondition." This means that they can't fly when the NASM gets though withthem. Every thing else is as it was. If they replace a part--- NO MATTER HOW SMALL-- they mark that part asnotoriginal. It falls to the restorer to insure that no mistake can be made as to thepossibility that he's trying to pass off a forgery. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from sats@gte.net Fri Dec 4 18:24:09 1998 Subject: Re: Montague - decals/ ETHICS Don,Or use a perfect copy of the decal and add "Restored by....." under all thecoats of varnish. Removing the addendum would likely damage the decalandvarnish beyond fixing.ArtAnd why not sign your work. You would if it were a new rod. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from sats@gte.net Fri Dec 4 18:24:11 1998 Subject: Re: Montague - decals/ ETHICS Al,Oddly enough, when you think of the difficulty in creating a duplicatedecal and simply engraving the identifying characteristics of some of theold rods, it's probably easier to copy the engraving!!! (And I think theengraved ones were probably more valuable to the collector)Art Art, There are companies that make custom decals. The Plastic hobby industryhasseveral of them. Send in your art, tell them what scale to make it andback itcomes, larger or smaller or the same size. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Dec 4 18:57:30 1998 Sat, 5 Dec 1998 08:56:44 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Rod straightening On Fri, 4 Dec 1998 arnold.jl@pg.com wrote: Does anyone on the list use the straightening method that uses steelplatesand your planing form? This method was published in the Sept/Oct 1997Planing Form Newsletter and written by Carl O'Connor. I was justwonderingif the results are as claimed in the article. I am planning on using thismethod on my tip sections and will be happy to report the results. If youare using this method please respond. TIA, Jeff Works great. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from maxs@geocities.co.jp Fri Dec 4 19:21:23 1998 mail.geocities.co.jp(8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id KAA02065 for; Sat, 5Dec 1998 10:21:13 +0900 (JST) Subject: Kicked Out Hi, I have been receiveing nothing for a whole week. I thought it isbecause you're all on Thanks Giving vacation and entertaining yourSWAMBO and family.Today, I made unsubscribe/subscribe. It showed me "You were not amember of rodmakers."Does god kick me out? Can I join the list again? Hope not be kick outagain at Christmas day. Max -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Dec 4 19:32:38 1998 Subject: Re: Planing forms Perhaps the only item that I have made or purchased that hit theworkbench onthe run was the Lie -Neilsen Repo #212 scraper - and even then I had tospendtime to reshape the blade angle to that that I wanted. FYI - for those thatmay not know it Tom is about to release a version of the 9 1/2 plane withthe21 degree blade angle - cost - well I heard $180 tossed about - anexcellentToy for under the tree - Miles and I are both on the waiting list.Anyway whether you are making your own planing forms or having afriend downto the tool and die do it or you purchase them from one of the severalsources- you will need to spend time fine tuning them - with one exception - theforms I saw from Jeff Wagner. So in one fashion or another you do pay.Time adds wisdom, for those working at or having forms made -forget thedifferential screws - the push-pull method is the best and easiest. The difscrews are hard to make - the forms are hard to take appart andreassemble from cleaning. Another definate is that the push screw should only be a hidden setscrew andthat the pull should only be a socket head cap screw - neither should behexheaded. If you ever plane and drop your pinky to the edge of the form tostablize the plane you will fully understand why.If there is interest I can repost the fine tuning procedures and thereareeven drawing now - I would be glad to do so but don't want to burn upspace ifthere is no interest. Wayne from caneboy@xtn.net Fri Dec 4 19:41:20 1998 Subject: Re: Planing forms Wayne,Please repost the fine tuning procedure. it will be a great asset tous. Thank you. WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: Perhaps the only item that I have made or purchased that hit theworkbench onthe run was the Lie -Neilsen Repo #212 scraper - and even then I had tospendtime to reshape the blade angle to that that I wanted. FYI - for thosethatmay not know it Tom is about to release a version of the 9 1/2 planewith the21 degree blade angle - cost - well I heard $180 tossed about - anexcellentToy for under the tree - Miles and I are both on the waiting list.Anyway whether you are making your own planing forms or having afriend downto the tool and die do it or you purchase them from one of the severalsources- you will need to spend time fine tuning them - with one exception - theforms I saw from Jeff Wagner. So in one fashion or another you do pay.Time adds wisdom, for those working at or having forms made -forget thedifferential screws - the push-pull method is the best and easiest. Thedifscrews are hard to make - the forms are hard to take appart andreassemble from cleaning.Another definate is that the push screw should only be a hidden setscrew andthat the pull should only be a socket head cap screw - neither should behexheaded. If you ever plane and drop your pinky to the edge of the form tostablize the plane you will fully understand why.If there is interest I can repost the fine tuning procedures andthere areeven drawing now - I would be glad to do so but don't want to burn upspace ifthere is no interest. Wayne from anglport@con2.com Fri Dec 4 20:09:48 1998 Subject: Re: Kicked Out Max,Welcome to the club. You apparently can be a rodmaker any way you wish,butyou can't officially be on this list until you've been kicked off a time ortwo!Art At 10:21 AM 12/5/98 +0900, you wrote:Hi, I have been receiveing nothing for a whole week. I thought it isbecause you're all on Thanks Giving vacation and entertaining yourSWAMBO and family.Today, I made unsubscribe/subscribe. It showed me "You were not amember of rodmakers."Does god kick me out? Can I join the list again? Hope not be kick outagain at Christmas day. Max -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from Canerods@aol.com Fri Dec 4 20:24:30 1998 Subject: Re: Rod straightening In a message dated 12/4/98 5:02:56 PM Pacific Standard Time,tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au writes: Works great. Tony Tony, You got your ISP working again? Don Burns from stpete@netten.net Fri Dec 4 20:25:10 1998 cedar.netten.net(8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA27400 for ;Fri, 4 Dec 1998 20:25:08 Subject: Re: Kicked Out No, Max, even thought many think God has a sense of humor, gettingkicked off the list is a regular occurence. Perhaps someone else knowswhy. If I have no message for a day, I unsubscribe/subscribe. It'skind of an initiation or rite of passage. If you've been a listmemberlong enough to get kicked off, congratulate yourself for hanging in hereand pour yourself a shot of 12 year old single malt. Rick C. Even thoughMax Satoh wrote: Hi, I have been receiveing nothing for a whole week. I thought it isbecause you're all on Thanks Giving vacation and entertaining yourSWAMBO and family.Today, I made unsubscribe/subscribe. It showed me "You were not amember of rodmakers."Does god kick me out? Can I join the list again? Hope not be kick outagain at Christmas day. Max --Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from FlyTyr@southshore.com Fri Dec 4 20:26:18 1998 natco.southshore.com(8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA05692 for ;Fri, 4 Dec 1998 20:27:42-0600 Subject: Re: Planing forms Wayne,If you don't post ,would send to me off list.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: Perhaps the only item that I have made or purchased that hit theworkbench onthe run was the Lie -Neilsen Repo #212 scraper - and even then I had tospendtime to reshape the blade angle to that that I wanted. FYI - for thosethatmay not know it Tom is about to release a version of the 9 1/2 planewith the21 degree blade angle - cost - well I heard $180 tossed about - anexcellentToy for under the tree - Miles and I are both on the waiting list.Anyway whether you are making your own planing forms or having afriend downto the tool and die do it or you purchase them from one of the severalsources- you will need to spend time fine tuning them - with one exception - theforms I saw from Jeff Wagner. So in one fashion or another you do pay.Time adds wisdom, for those working at or having forms made -forget thedifferential screws - the push-pull method is the best and easiest. Thedifscrews are hard to make - the forms are hard to take appart andreassemble from cleaning.Another definate is that the push screw should only be a hidden setscrew andthat the pull should only be a socket head cap screw - neither should behexheaded. If you ever plane and drop your pinky to the edge of the form tostablize the plane you will fully understand why.If there is interest I can repost the fine tuning procedures andthere areeven drawing now - I would be glad to do so but don't want to burn upspace ifthere is no interest. Wayne from robert.kope@MCI2000.com Fri Dec 4 20:56:48 1998 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 02:56:15 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: tapping holes Andy, Don't use the tap from Home Depot!!! It is too brittle and will fatigue andbreak off after you tap a few holes. You need a better quality tap forsteel. I went through this a few months ago and had to extract 2 brokentaps from partially tapped holes. This took more time than tapping theholes. I made my forms from CRS and they also warped. They are bowed about1/4" inthe center on 72" forms. I tried blocking up the ends and jumping on them,but the bow is there to stay. I figured that given the length of the soleof a block plane and the location of the cutting edge, it adds less that 1thousandth to splines on the concave side of the forms. I can live withthat. -- Robert Kope -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: tapping holes Stuart,I came across the same issue a couple of days ago. I went to buy the5/16"setscrew and the saleswoman told me to use an F drill bit for the tappingholes. Then I went to Home Depot to buy the 5/16" tap bit, I found thatthe the 5/16 tap bit they sell came with a G drill bit. Is there amachinist out there who could clarify this issue?. Thank you.Andy Hey I just learned somthing while buying parts to make my first set ofsteelforms.The tap should be what is called a gun tap. They say that is the best.Alsothey told me to use the three flute as it will not bind as easy. The next interesting thing I was told is that you must use a number Fdrillbit for the hole that you are going to tap. Wayne's book says to use a1/4"if I am reading it correctly. The F bit is a bit larger then the 1/4" andthemachinest told me that is why so many have broken their taps off. Anyone disagree with this new found wisdom? I sure you will let meknow stuart millersoon to be a rod builderboy I can't wait till I stop typing that from cattanac@wmis.net Fri Dec 4 21:21:38 1998 t2.wmis.net (8.8.5/SCO5) withSMTP id DAA02396 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 199803:25:03 GMT Subject: Re: Planing forms PUSH - PULLAs more and more become involved with the craft of bamboo rodmakingthemore and better ideas fall out. Such is the case with final planing forms.The current accepted standard is an improved push - pull adjustmentmethod.The system breaks down to three elements located at each adjustmentstation.The elements are a setscrew, dowel pin, and bolt. To start, the formhalvesare drilled to accept the dowel pin. This holds the forms in alignment bothlengthwise as well as holds the surfaces flush with each other. Then tooneside of the dowel pin one form half is drilled and tapped to accept athreaded device. When tightened this thread device acts to push the formsapart. On the opposite side of the dowel pin a hole is drilled through thefirst form half and the second form half is drilled and tapped for a secondthread device that when tightened acts to pull the forms together.I have seen and used this adjustment system on a couple of differentforms.One used a setscrew and a socket head capscrew. The second used two hexheadbolts. My preference is the first using a setscrew and socket headcapscrew.The reason for this is simple. I touch my fingers to the edge of the formswhen planing to stabilize the plane. The first combination is softer on thefinger tips. Now there is nothing wrong with the for in the secondillustration. It's just the bolts used that I have a problem with. Bumpingthe sharper corners of the hex head bolts with the finger tips can hurt.There is a simple fix. Just change the bolts.Dimensionally the adjustment system is loose ended. The thread devicesanddowel pins can be either 1/4" or 5/16" and the centerline spacing can beeither 1/2" - 9/16". And it doesn't matter which side of the dowel pin thepush or pull is on as long as it is consistent throughout the form.Adjusting the push - pull forms is as simple as any. First do a quick checkwith the depth gauge to see if overall the forms need to open or close.Thenback off whichever thread device that needs loosening to allow thatmovement. Do this the length of the forms. If the forms need to close, backall the push devices out a few turns. If the forms need to open then backout all the pull devices. Then starting at one end, adjust the individualstations. Push or pull the forms to the desired dimension and lock in theadjustment with the other thread device by bringing it up snug but nottight. Continue to the next station following up the last adjustment with acheck of all stations. Readjusting as needed. FINE TUNINGOne of the keys to accurate dimensions is having each of the involvedtools at their finest. As for the planing forms this means the two surfacesare flat and the `V' is a correct 60 degree angle and burr free. Thefollowing technique works for new forms as well as used. With new formsitwill assure their accuracy. On used forms nicks and chatters fromscrapingcan be removed.To prepare the forms they first should be dismantled and cleanedthoroughlyof any debris using a soft wire brush or stiff paintbrush. Thenreassembledwith the inner faces seated, set them on the workbench. To monitor theprogress coat the faces of the forms with either lay-out die or a coloredmarker.Two files are used, a flat mill and triangle mill, both receive someadapting before use. For surfacing, a flat mill file 12" to 14" in lengthworks best. To make the filing easier a handle is added. However, not asonemight think. To avoid rounding the form surface the file needs to be usedasparallel to the forms as possible. The conventional file handle preventsthis from happening. Instead a block of wood can be mounted to one of thefaces of the file just below the teeth where the file is smooth. Thissmootharea is not hardened and can be drilled and counter bored for a wood screwto hold the wood block handle. Counter bore until the screw head isrecessed. Then the normal handle is bent up slightly to get it out of theway.A 6" mill triangle file is used on the `V'. For a handle cut a piece of1/4" nylon or plexiglass to the same width as the assembled forms and 5"orso in length. To attach the file to the handle epoxy glue it down thecenterline of the width of the handle. The precaution here is to be sure thetwo surfaces are squeezed together avoiding excess glue canting the fileoffangle with the handle. Again bend the normal handle up slightly.Besides the files you will need a file card or brush to clean the flatfile. A toothbrush works well to clean the triangle file. And it would bebest to have a paint brush handy to whisk the filings from the forms.Finally, as much as I discourage the use of gloves while making rods, thisis one of those times where a pair of cloth jersey gloves will protect thehands and not get in the way.The surfacing of the forms is done first. Lay the file on the forms asparallel as possible, having the front of the file just over hang the edgeof the forms and the rear of the file just over hang the opposite edge. Fileforward with one hand on the handle and the other hand placing a lightamount of down pressure at the midpoint of the file. Take a few passeswiththis file position and then alternate the file so it over hangs the oppositeedges from before(forming an `X' pattern) and take a few passes with thisnew file position. The file will need to be cleaned after just a few passesand cleaning the surface of the forms will help make the filing go faster.After a few passes inspect the forms for progress. With new forms acoupleof things might be seen. If the forms weren't surfaced after assembly youmight see removal at just the middle or at just the edges. This is commondue to the inaccuracies of steel manufacturing. Normally if one surfacecontacts at the middle first the opposite surface will contact the edgesfirst. Also check for flatness using a straight edge. Filing should continueuntil the entire surface evidences file wear. Both sides are surfacedbeforeattention is focused at the `V'.Before the second phase it is recommended that the sharp edges thatwerejust created be softened. Use the flat mill file and chamfer the fourcorners of the forms. The reason for this is that in the next filing thefile will be pulled down the forms with the thumb and first finger restingon these corners for a guide. If they are sharp or have burrs these fingersare sure to suffer the consequences.If a triangle file is examined closely, it becomes obvious that the cornersdon't come to a point but are instead flattened. To compensate for this theforms need to be opened enough so that the faces of the file contact thefaces of the `V'. Perhaps the most accurate method to accomplish this istoset this gap using a set of feeler gauges and to adjust station to station.A feeler gauge thickness of from .060" to .070" is needed. The key to usingfeeler gauges is to have the same resistance to travel at each location.A general statement is that the triangle file is PULLED the length of theforms starting at the deepest end. But beyond that there are a few finepoints. After the file is placed in the `V' rest the middle finger of theright hand on it to hold it in position. Then a visual inspection of thedistance between the form surface and the lower surface of the handle ismade to assure that the distance on each side is the same. If it isn't theit needs to be corrected. Finally with the left thumb and first finger pinchthe side of the forms and the handle and pull forward. After each pass thefile and the `V' should be whisk clean and the `V' should be inspected forprogress. Remember that with each pass the `V' is being filed deeper and,especially on the tip side, that too much filing might not allow the formsto adjust to the required numbers. A compromise would be to bring thesurface of the `V' to a 50 present finish. That is 50 present of the surfaceof the `V' shows evidence of filing. Proceed with caution. from irvine@bamboorods.org Fri Dec 4 21:39:04 1998 smtp.bamboorods.org (NTMail 3.03.0017/1d.aabx) with ESMTP id ka028636for; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 19:41:08 -0800 Subject: Westcost rodmakers gatheing Daryl, You have read my mind, I was hoping to get a gathering going in Bishop(Eastern side of the Sierras, Owens river area) but I can't do thatuntil I get my shop done. I would be happy to assist you if you need anyhelp.Chuck from anglport@con2.com Fri Dec 4 22:02:53 1998 Subject: Re: Planing forms Wayne,Ditto, please.Art At 08:29 PM 12/4/98 -0600, you wrote:Wayne,If you don't post ,would send to me off list.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: Perhaps the only item that I have made or purchased that hit theworkbench onthe run was the Lie -Neilsen Repo #212 scraper - and even then I had tospendtime to reshape the blade angle to that that I wanted. FYI - for thosethatmay not know it Tom is about to release a version of the 9 1/2 planewith the21 degree blade angle - cost - well I heard $180 tossed about - anexcellentToy for under the tree - Miles and I are both on the waiting list.Anyway whether you are making your own planing forms or havingafriend downto the tool and die do it or you purchase them from one of the severalsources- you will need to spend time fine tuning them - with one exception -theforms I saw from Jeff Wagner. So in one fashion or another you do pay.Time adds wisdom, for those working at or having forms made -forget thedifferential screws - the push-pull method is the best and easiest. Thedifscrews are hard to make - the forms are hard to take appart andreassemble from cleaning.Another definate is that the push screw should only be a hiddenset screw andthat the pull should only be a socket head cap screw - neither should behexheaded. If you ever plane and drop your pinky to the edge of the form tostablize the plane you will fully understand why.If there is interest I can repost the fine tuning procedures andthere areeven drawing now - I would be glad to do so but don't want to burn upspace ifthere is no interest. Wayne from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Dec 4 22:05:52 1998 Subject: Re: Kicked Out Max,Glad you're back.Hank W. from richjez@enteract.com Fri Dec 4 23:21:41 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Planing forms Can we get a "consumer report" review of Mr. Neilsen's new plane after youusei for a while. For the price, I would definitely like a second option. thefistbeing the manufactures.Rich Jezioro At 08:29 PM 12/4/98 -0500, you wrote:Perhaps the only item that I have made or purchased that hit theworkbench onthe run was the Lie -Neilsen Repo #212 scraper - and even then I had tospendtime to reshape the blade angle to that that I wanted. FYI - for those thatmay not know it Tom is about to release a version of the 9 1/2 plane withthe21 degree blade angle - cost - well I heard $180 tossed about - anexcellentToy for under the tree - Miles and I are both on the waiting list.Anyway whether you are making your own planing forms or having afrienddownto the tool and die do it or you purchase them from one of the severalsources- you will need to spend time fine tuning them - with one exception - theforms I saw from Jeff Wagner. So in one fashion or another you do pay.Time adds wisdom, for those working at or having forms made -forget thedifferential screws - the push-pull method is the best and easiest. Thedifscrews are hard to make - the forms are hard to take appart andreassemble from cleaning. Another definate is that the push screw should only be a hidden setscrew andthat the pull should only be a socket head cap screw - neither should behexheaded. If you ever plane and drop your pinky to the edge of the form tostablize the plane you will fully understand why.If there is interest I can repost the fine tuning procedures and thereareeven drawing now - I would be glad to do so but don't want to burn upspace ifthere is no interest. Wayne *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ /||/______/_||_________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > from mlandon@inreach.com Sat Dec 5 01:23:18 1998 (8.8.8/8.8.6/(InReach)) with SMTP id XAA29781 for; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 Subject: Re: tapping holes The tap should be what is called a gun tap. They say that is the best. Alsothey told me to use the three flute as it will not bind as easy. Yes, a three flute tap will allow larger chips to be extracted through thetap, reducing the possibility of tap breakage. The next interesting thing I was told is that you must use a number Fdrillbit for the hole that you are going to tap. Wayne's book says to use a1/4"if I am reading it correctly. The F bit is a bit larger then the 1/4" andthemachinest told me that is why so many have broken their taps off. A good rule of thumb is to use a slightly larger tap drill when tappingsteels. However, the fit between the tapped hole and the bolt will be slightlylooser. If you use lots of cutting fluid and reverse the direction of the tap every turn orso (breaking off the chip and making them small), you should be able to usethe 1/4 inch. -Mark from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat Dec 5 03:00:27 1998 Sat, 5 Dec 1998 16:58:54 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Rod straightening On Fri, 4 Dec 1998 Canerods@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 12/4/98 5:02:56 PM Pacific Standard Time,tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au writes: Works great. Tony Tony, You got your ISP working again? Don Burns Seems so, but it looks to be a bit sporatic. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat Dec 5 03:02:40 1998 Sat, 5 Dec 1998 17:01:46 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Planing forms On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Rich Jezioro wrote: Can we get a "consumer report" review of Mr. Neilsen's new plane afteryou usei for a while. For the price, I would definitely like a second option. thefistbeing the manufactures.Rich Jezioro Although this item is still ether-ware I'd be pretty confident it'll be one helluva tool. Hopefuly it will come in bronze. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat Dec 5 03:16:59 1998 Sat, 5 Dec 1998 17:15:47 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: RE: Son of Cork Order On Thu, 3 Dec 1998, Coffey, Patrick W wrote: does anybody know who and what C&D is and how to get a hold of them. Patrick & Davy,This id C&D trading email address: ckishish@isd.net I have no idea as to how good this cork is related to what is available out there but what I've received has all been good.I have a sneeking suspision that there is no real benchmark for cork quality but is more of a sliding scale based upon current stocks.Maybee that's just my mind at work though, I' don't know. Christ is a bit of what I guess you'd call a spamer in that you'll get pricelists and special deals arive out of the blue, I like this but it may annoy others. One good thing is he'll often send recipes which are quite good. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from maxs@geocities.co.jp Sat Dec 5 03:59:35 1998 mail.geocities.co.jp(8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id SAA26031 for; Sat, 5Dec 1998 18:59:31 +0900 (JST) Subject: Bamboo Cane Splitter Hi all, There is a great traditional bamboo cane splitter.It can split two culms of bamboo into 24 strips respectively in 30minutes with sacrifice of 3~4 strips. It is my Christmas present for you. Please look into my English homepage. Max-- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from maxs@geocities.co.jp Sat Dec 5 03:59:42 1998 mail.geocities.co.jp(8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id SAA26091 for; Sat, 5Dec 1998 18:59:39 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Rod straightening Jeff, There is also a good way to straighten the twisted/doglegged tip sectionin my home page.Please refer to the bottom of this message. Max Tony Young wrote: On Fri, 4 Dec 1998 arnold.jl@pg.com wrote: Does anyone on the list use the straightening method that uses steelplatesand your planing form? This method was published in the Sept/Oct1997Planing Form Newsletter and written by Carl O'Connor. I was justwonderingif the results are as claimed in the article. I am planning on using thismethod on my tip sections and will be happy to report the results. Ifyouare using this method please respond. TIA, Jeff Works great. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sat Dec 5 06:58:54 1998 Subject: Differential Screws vs Push/Pull Wayne, All my sets of forms have differential screws AKA Garrison. What I likeabout them is that 1 turn of the screw equals 0.008" of change in thedistance the forms come together assuming you are using 1/4*20 and5/16*24thread patterns. For the push/pull method and a 1/4*20 thread bolt, asingle turn equals 0.050" of form movement. Further, a bolt would likelyhave about 0.004" or so of loss motion and this is the reason for the push. So the question is: How big of pain in the butt is setting the forms with a push/pull method. I know that the push/pull is inherently more accurate if the differentialscrews are not built exactly on center. PS.Nice to see your back. Don from channer@hubwest.com Sat Dec 5 07:35:46 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A721124013C; Sat, 05 Dec 1998 06:37:37 MST Subject: re:Tony Young Tony;In case my message didn't get thru, I got yours.John from channer@hubwest.com Sat Dec 5 07:40:42 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A84913500E6; Sat, 05 Dec 1998 06:42:33 MST Subject: Powell A-9 tapers Hi guys;Anyone have any experience with Powell A-9 taper designs? I read thearticle in the latest Planing Form with great interest and ran the taperthru Hexrod. This seems like viable way to design rods and I waswonderingwhat anyone who has cast any of these tapers has to say about them. John Channer from morten@flash.net Sat Dec 5 08:43:43 1998 Subject: Lie-Nielsen 9 1/2 All,I'm using a Lie-Nielsen 60 1/2 and i love it. The blade angle is 12* andI sharpen the blade at 54* giving a total angle of 66*. I startedplaning rods with a Stanley 9 1/2, but after I got the L-N thats all Iuse. I have now made 8 rods with the Lie-Nielsen plane. Morten Lovstad-- 3119 Georgia Pine Dr.Spring, TX 77373(281) 353 5725http://www.flash.net/~morten/index.htm from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Dec 5 08:46:15 1998 Subject: Re: tapping holes In a message dated 12/4/98 11:12:29 PM, you wrote: The F drill will give you what machinists call 75% depth of thread. Thethreads will be deep enough to be strong, and loose enough to be easy totapand assemble. If you are using a drill press, it is the way to go. If you usea dowel jig, you will have to use a 1/4 inch drill, and be more careful. Isayagain for the newer people, don't try this with a hardware store tap. Theaggravation of finding an industrial supply house and getting a good tap isnothing compared to the aggravation of getting a broken tap out of a steelbar. Get some tapping lube while you are at it. Guess how I learned all this. from MasjC1@aol.com Sat Dec 5 09:18:40 1998 Subject: Re: Rod straightening Jeff, I've used this method on my last (first) three rods. They seem to come outvery straight with only a small amount of straightening is required. I don'thave any thing to compare with since I have done with all the rods I'vemadeso far. My procedure is to straighten the bound sections in the usual waysrecommend in the form with a 1"x1" square hollow steel tube on top. For extra weightIput by plane and scraper on top of the tube. Since I'm using Nyatex Iremovethe string after 24 hours and hang the section in my drying cabinet for aweekor so. Once I sand off the excess epoxy, I see how straight the blank trulyis. So far I have been pleased with the results. Mark Cole from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Sat Dec 5 09:51:16 1998 ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap(V1.3) Subject: Re: polyurathane Hi Harry,Well I tried it and I must say, I was completely underwhelmed! Here's thescoop. Apparatus: I constructed a Sir Darryl drip tube using information picked upon the list. It looks like something out of a chemistry lab but works OK.I found a 3/4 ID clear plastic pipe that I used to make the part to hangthe rod in. The rest was PVC pipe and fittings. I put a "T" about a foot from the bottom and added an elbow and a 1 1/4 section beside the tube toact as a funnel and a reservoir for the varnish. It came out needing 1 1/2quarts to charge it. I used an elbow with a pipe cap as the bottom. Idrilled a 1/8" hole in the cap and stuck a 1" piece of brass tubing in it.I can slide smaller pieces of tubing in to neck it down to 1/16" or 3/32" friction fit and this allows the elbow to be removed after the varnishdrains so air can enter the tube. Varnish: I did a good bit of searching on the web for information. The twoattractive candidates were "High Performance Polyurethane" made byGeneralFinishes and "Hydroshield" made by Hydrocote. Both have UV inhibitors. Iused the General Finish because it was available locally. It is sold byboth Woodcraft and Paxton; it's also sold by Japan Woodworking. Therecommendation is no thinning. I did not thin as no actual thinner wasavailable and it is not recommended. The solvent is not water but rather amixture of water and other solvents. The varnish is a polymerizedurethaneand acrylic mixture held in suspension by the water/solvent mixture. Whenyou open the can, it sort of reminds you of week buttermilk with a littleoil in it. I suspect it is made using a process similar to homogenizingmilk. Anyway, you are supposed to stir, not shake before using. It looked likethe polymers were continually building clumps in the solution and need tobe stirred often to break them up. I got a good bit of bubbles the firsttime but by letting the container sit and tilting the tube when poring thevarnish in, I was able to get the varnish in the tube with a minimum ofbubbles the second time. I didn't check the drain rate but it was wellbelow 2 inch per minute. I got no runs. Result: I varnished the rod blank without hardware. There were no runshowever the surface of the varnish has a sprinkling of small "pimples".Looked like the same effect as dust. The varnish was good and hard after24 hours and responded well to a light sanding with 600 grit sandpaper.The finish was completely clear and no better than a quick wiping ofBehlen's woodturners finish; maybe not as good. I was expectingsomethingmuch better. I gave the tip two coats and the butt section one with thesame result each time. Oil based polyurethane: I then went down to the local building supply andbought 2 quarts of Minwax "Helsman Spar Urethane". This also has UVinhibitors. I lightly sanded the blanks and repeated the varnishing withthe Minwax. I let the rod sit in the tube for two days and just removed itthis morning. How did the finish compare to the water based? Well, Ihavetwo quarts of $22 per quart of finish that will never see another rod. Ihave some kitchen stuff that needs finishing so it won't go to waste. Conclusion: The only thing the water based finish has going for it is thesoap and water cleanup and low odor. When comparing regularpolyurethaneto water based urethane, I paid twice as much for the water based and gothalf as good of a finish. Hope this is of use for anyone else on the list who may be thinking alongthese lines. If you have questions that I haven't answered, let me knowand I will try and answer them. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com Onis,I haven't tried it, but I have noticed it. Sure sounds interesting. I'vebeen tempted to call some of the varnish manufacturers, or woodworkingexpertsto see what they might suggest for a finish on a rod. I have a suspicionthat's how many of us came to the glues we use.If no one else responds, why don't you try it out and let us know how itgoes. That should keep me from making a mess! A suggestion just likethe oneabove led to the Southern Rodmakers Gathering! :-)Harry Onis Cogburn wrote: Has anyone tried the water based polyurathane sold by Woodcraft? In adriptube? from BambooRods@aol.com Sat Dec 5 11:49:48 1998 Subject: ID info needed This was forwarded to me and I thought that the list should be able tohelp.thanksdoug hall From: TWH1362B@aol.com [SMTP:TWH1362B@aol.com]Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 6:14 PM Subject: Actionrod My grandfather was an avid fly rod fisherman and used bamboo fly rodsfromamaker by the name of Actionrod. Are you familiar with this company?? Thecloth cases that many of the rods are in, say that it is a Michagancompany.These rods are beautiful to say the least!!! Any information you cangive onthe maker or the rods themselves would be greatly appreciated. from gwr@seanet.com Sat Dec 5 12:00:00 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA04673 for; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 Subject: Moving boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE2036.07CDC040" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE2036.07CDC040 Hi Guys, No specific product news here so I hope no-one is offended. I just wantedeveryone to know what we're up to, both personally & with the company.Golden Witch will have a new home beginning in 1999. My wife & I aretrading in our condo/shop in Lynnwood, Washington for a more suitableproperty in Stevens, PA. Stevens is smaller than a gnat's butt, so if you're trying to place us on a map you'll want to look for Ephrata, PA inLancaster County. For myself, this means moving back to the home watersI've been missing since I first moved to Washington. We will operate the company with only a one week interruption in ourabilityto take orders and a three week interruption in our ability to ship theproducts we stock in house. Products that are drop shipped will not faceaninterruption in shipping beyond the one week we'll be out of touch. Weleave Washington January 6th and will arrive in Pennsylvania as close toJanuary 13th as is possible given winter driving conditions. This will beour "out of touch" week. The in house products will be packed as ofJanuary1st and will be unpacked and ready to ship again by January 21st. Our new contact information will be as follows:Mailing Address: P.O. Box 159 Hopeland, PA 17533Shipping Address: 1560 Kleinfeltersville Road Stevens, PA 17578Phone: (717) 738-7330Web: remains http://www.goldenwitch.comEmail: keep using gwr@seanet.com until we establish a local account I apologize in advance for any inconvenience this may cause our clients,butI promise that the new facilities will vastly enhance our ability toprovideservices to cane rod makers across the country. The new property hassufficient land for us to construct a large, free-standing shop. This will,among other things, give us the space to warehouse a greater inventory ofcane tools & components. For those wishing to make the trip, we willhaveabout 300 feet of brook trout water in the backyard, including one of thearea's nicer holes, on which to test rods. Once we are settled, my wife, Erica, will be working for Golden Witchfull-time. She will be taking over day to day operations of the firm,answering the phone, and shipping orders. Between helping me in theGoldenWitch rod shop and spending a few evenings in Daryll's shop, she hasdeveloped a sound understanding of bamboo rod making and is qualified toanswer most of your questions. I'll still be available if you havequestions that Erica can't answer. For my part, I'll be able to get back tobuilding and restoring rods as well as working with Bellinger and othermanufacturers to develop a greater range of products. Immediately upon our arrival on the east coast, we will be participating intwo fly fishing shows put on by The Angler's Art. The first will be inCollege Park, MD on January 16th & 17th. The second will be in Somerset,NJthe last weekend of January. I hope that many of you will be able toattendone of the shows and will stop by our booth to introduce yourselves. Thanks & best regards, Russ Golden Witch Rods - "Tools For Natural Philosophy"Golden Witch Technologies, Inc. - "The Golden Age Is Now"gwr@seanet.comhttp://www.goldenwitch.com ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE2036.07CDC040 name="Golden Witch.vcf" filename="Golden Witch.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDN:Gooding;John;R.FN:Golden WitchORG:Golden WitchTITLE:Rod Maker &c.TEL;WORK;VOICE:(425) 787- 6599TEL;PAGER;VOICE:noneTEL;WORK;FAX:noneADR;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A;Lynnwood;WA;98037;USALABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A=3D0D=3D0ALynnwood, WA =98037=3D0D=3D0AUSAURL:noneURL:http://www.goldenwitch.comEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:gwr@seanet.comEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE2036.07CDC040-- from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Dec 5 12:12:01 1998 Subject: Re: polyurathane I used a water based polyurethane on my last rod and didn't have theproblems you describe. It didn't seem as hard and durable as the regular polyurethane I use, so I'm not going to use it in the future,but other than that it was okay. Got mine from Woodcraft.I wonder if it has a shorter shelf life than oil based poly. Darryl from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Sat Dec 5 15:06:42 1998 ix9.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: polyurathane They claim it has a long shelf life; but they also claim it is harder andmore wear resistant than regular polyurethane. The brand they sell atWoodcraft is the same as I got at Paxton's; except at Woodcraft theycharge$26 and Paxton's price was $22. Paxton's is a fine wood/lumber andfinishing store. The finish probably wasn't as bad as I made it sound except whencomparedwith the Minwax. There was a big difference between the two finishes. Ithink it will be ok brushed on the kitchen cabinets so it won't go to waste. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com I used a water based polyurethane on my last rod and didn't have theproblems you describe. It didn't seem as hard and durable as the regular polyurethane I use, so I'm not going to use it in the future,but other than that it was okay. Got mine from Woodcraft.I wonder if it has a shorter shelf life than oil based poly. Darryl from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Sat Dec 5 15:20:04 1998 ix9.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Moving Stevens is smaller than a gnat's butt, so if you're trying to place us on a map you'll want to look for Ephrata, PA inLancaster County. For myself, this means moving back to the homewatersI've been missing since I first moved to Washington. Good luck on your move Russ. It's always nice to be going home. I'mplanning to move back to where I grew up in about 5 years but the trip willbe considerable shorter than yours. http://www.mapblast.com/mapblast/start.hmThe map system is fantastic. It even finds a little town(?) ( it's nolonger there) that I will be moving to in Arkansas. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from ccurrojr@mindspring.com Sat Dec 5 15:44:05 1998 Subject: Re: ID info needed boundary="------------1B5E630D7AFF060125899963" --------------1B5E630D7AFF060125899963 Actionrod didn't make bamboo rods, but they were pioneers in fiberglassrods. Early on they were solid, but then they began producing tubularfiberglass rods, some of which were hexagonal and painted to look justlike fine bamboo rods. I have one, it's beautiful and a lot of fun tofish. Check out - Fiberglass Fly Rods by Johnson & Johnson Jr. pp. 85-87. Charlie C. --------------1B5E630D7AFF060125899963 Actionrod didn't make bamboo rods, but they were pioneers in fiberglassrods. Early on they were solid, but then they began producing tubularfiberglassrods, some of which were hexagonal and painted to look just like finebamboorods. I have one, it's beautiful and a lot of fun to fish.Check out - Fiberglass Fly Rods by Johnson & Johnson Jr.pp. 85-87.Charlie C. --------------1B5E630D7AFF060125899963-- from channer@hubwest.com Sat Dec 5 16:17:17 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A15B181012C; Sat, 05 Dec 1998 15:19:07 MST Subject: Re: polyurathane At 09:48 AM 12/5/98 -0600, you wrote:Hi Harry,Well I tried it and I must say, I was completely underwhelmed! Here's thescoop. Onis;I hate to be an "I told you so",but. John from JHecht9234@aol.com Sat Dec 5 16:17:51 1998 Subject: Resorcinal glue line Just glued a section using resorcinal for the first time (it's a blond rod).The glue line has occasional white specks. Not sure whether this isundissolved hardener or areas where the glue didn't totally adhere or what.Doesn't seem to be related to the thickness or thinness of the glue line.I've also noticed this a little with URAC but it's less noticeable than withthe purple color of resorcinal. Anyone have this happen, know what causes it, or how to minimize it? Itdoesn't seem to have any effect on the bond, but it would look better tohavea consistent glue line. Thanks in advance. from RVenneri@aol.com Sat Dec 5 16:43:34 1998 Subject: tightbond Hello All.I have just split, planed, heatreated, and glued up my first Bamboo rod.First I want to thank all of you for your help. Ive gotten scraps of cane,forms, and more info than I can consume. My question is I used Tightbond IIwater proof glue to glue sections. Will it hold up at all or did I make atomato stake. If this glue will hold up can I straighten any bends out oftheblank using heat. Best Regards,Bob V from Davidhray1@aol.com Sat Dec 5 18:09:09 1998 Subject: Re: tightbond I have used Tightbond II on several rods with good results. Tightbond canbeheat straightened but it should not be done with as much heat as otherrods.In one way it is easier to straighten but on the other hand too much heatcancause it to separate. I have found that it is also seems to be a veryflexibleglue. If you want a faster rod this is not the glue to use. David H. Ray from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Sat Dec 5 18:24:08 1998 ix3.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: polyurathane Win some, lose some, some get rained out! Onisk5vkQ@ix.netcom.com Onis;I hate to be an "I told you so",but. John from jczimny@dol.net Sat Dec 5 19:19:03 1998 0500 Subject: RE: Resorcinal glue line =_NextPart_000_01BE208C.0E1ACBE0" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE208C.0E1ACBE0 This adhesive should not have any white specks.John Zimny -----Original Message----- Subject: Resorcinal glue line Just glued a section using resorcinal for the first time (it's a blond rod).The glue line has occasional white specks. Not sure whether this isundissolved hardener or areas where the glue didn't totally adhere or what.Doesn't seem to be related to the thickness or thinness of the glue line.I've also noticed this a little with URAC but it's less noticeable than withthe purple color of resorcinal. Anyone have this happen, know what causes it, or how to minimize it? Itdoesn't seem to have any effect on the bond, but it would look better tohavea consistent glue line. Thanks in advance.------ =_NextPart_000_01BE208C.0E1ACBE0 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE208C.0E1ACBE0-- from channer@hubwest.com Sat Dec 5 19:40:07 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A0E41C6012C; Sat, 05 Dec 1998 18:41:56 MST Subject: Re: Resorcinal glue line At 05:16 PM 12/5/98 EST, you wrote:Just glued a section using resorcinal for the first time (it's a blond rod).The glue line has occasional white specks. Not sure whether this isundissolved hardener or areas where the glue didn't totally adhere orwhat.Doesn't seem to be related to the thickness or thinness of the glue line.I've also noticed this a little with URAC but it's less noticeable than withthe purple color of resorcinal. Anyone have this happen, know what causes it, or how to minimize it? Itdoesn't seem to have any effect on the bond, but it would look better tohavea consistent glue line. Thanks in advance. Try wiping it down with mineral spirits, or oiling it. Many glues turnwhite when sanded, but will return to normal color when wet with solventorvarnish.Perhaps what is making the white spots are slight gaps in yourseams where there is more glue visible. I have noticed the same thing onfreshly sanded sections, but after I oiled them I couldn't find the spotsagain. John Channer from rmoon@ida.net Sat Dec 5 21:24:51 1998 Subject: Re: Moving Good Luck Russ, we will miss you in our part of the country. I'm stillgoing to sawup that greenheart plank one of these first daysm, if I can ever get aheadon cane rodbuilding.Ralph from anglport@con2.com Sat Dec 5 21:28:37 1998 Subject: Re: polyurathane Darryl,I've used the water-based poly for woodworking projects and I think it hasa long shelf-life IF you can keep the can from rusting internally andruining the stuff with crud-fallout. I've had that problem with severalwaterbased products.Art At 01:10 PM 12/5/98 EST, you wrote: I used a water based polyurethane on my last rod and didn't have theproblems you describe. It didn't seem as hard and durable as the regular polyurethane I use, so I'm not going to use it in the future,but other than that it was okay. Got mine from Woodcraft.I wonder if it has a shorter shelf life than oil based poly. Darryl from rmoon@ida.net Sat Dec 5 21:40:06 1998 Subject: breakage I am slightly puzzled, and I thought that I would see what others'experience has been. About a year and a half ago, a house guest friendof mine broke a vintage Leonard. The break was about 3-4 inches belowthe female ferrule. Just recently I was given two very nice rods supershape--real excellent condition with only one problem. Both rods had abroken section.One a Philipson Premium had a broken tip about one inchabove the ferrule, and the other an Edwards DeLuxe was broken about aninch below the female ferrule. The puzzling thing is that all threebreaks are clean breaks perpendicular to the rod shaft. There is nosplintering whatever. The breaks all look like a glass rod break.None of the breaks are at a node, none show any evidence of pinchingsqueezing or bruising (screen door or car door breaks). All are farenough away from the ferrule that there is no reason to suspect poorferrule fitting. It seems that most breaks I see are either parallelwith the rod shaft or if not show a brush like bread with lots ofsplinters. Does any one have any idea why a rod should break in this manner. Incidentally I built a new mid for the Leonard, Scarf spliced thePhilipson, and am sitting here wondering how in heck I'll ever find aEdwards female ferrule. They are quite distinct, and any old ferrulewill not work. Thanks, Ralph from trout@ricochet.net Sat Dec 5 21:40:18 1998 Subject: Re: polyurathane mac-creator="4D4F5353" I used a water based polyurethane by varathane about 8 years ago andthought that I had found the holy grail of rod varnishes. It was harderand more durable than any spar or oil based poly I had used before. Italso had less tendency to form bubbles or runs and rubbed down nicelybetween coats with good adhesion. It also worked extremely well forfinishing wraps on rods finished with hand-rubbed tung oil. This lasted the short shelf life was because I stored it in an unheated shop butwhen I tried to replace it with a new can of varnish, I couldn't repeatmy earlier results. A call to the company informed me that theformulation had been changed for reasons that the representativewouldn't specify. I know its possible to make a good water based poly,but I can't speak for shelf life or current products. Next year, I'lltry some of the finishes mentioned in the latest issue of finewoodworking and hope for the best. Rob Nielsen SalarFly@aol.com wrote: I used a water based polyurethane on my last rod and didn't have theproblems you describe. It didn't seem as hard and durable as theregular polyurethane I use, so I'm not going to use it in the future,but other than that it was okay. Got mine from Woodcraft.I wonder if it has a shorter shelf life than oil based poly. Darryl from maxs@geocities.co.jp Sat Dec 5 22:29:45 1998 mail.geocities.co.jp(8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id NAA02302 for; Sun, 6Dec 1998 13:29:41 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Kicked Out Art Port wrote: Max,Welcome to the club. You apparently can be a rodmaker any way you wish,butyou can't officially be on this list until you've been kicked off a time ortwo!Art Art, This is the second time for me. But seems fur more behind you guys. Max-- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from maxs@geocities.co.jp Sat Dec 5 22:33:42 1998 mail.geocities.co.jp(8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id NAA05113 for; Sun, 6Dec 1998 13:33:39 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Kicked Out Rick Crenshaw wrote: No, Max, even thought many think God has a sense of humor, gettingkicked off the list is a regular occurence. Perhaps someone else knowswhy. If I have no message for a day, I unsubscribe/subscribe. It'skind of an initiation or rite of passage. If you've been a listmemberlong enough to get kicked off, congratulate yourself for hanging in hereand pour yourself a shot of 12 year old single malt. Rick C. Rick,I will have a fine brewered sake then. Next time, I will send unsub/subwithout waiting.Max -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from maxs@geocities.co.jp Sat Dec 5 22:36:37 1998 mail.geocities.co.jp(8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id NAA07365 for; Sun, 6Dec 1998 13:36:24 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Kicked Out FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: Max,Glad you're back.Hank W. Thank you Hank. I'm also glad to talk with you again.-- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from saweiss@flash.net Sun Dec 6 00:07:23 1998 Subject: Re: breakage Does any one have any idea why a rod should break in this manner. Ralph,Could it be possible that there was some rot or water damage in the rods?I had older rod break like that on a very moderate cast. It just went "plop"and broke in two right below the female ferrule. The cane looked kind ofsoft.Steve from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sun Dec 6 01:10:48 1998 (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP Subject: Re: breakage Too much heat treating or impregnation (polymerization, one way oranother)would be what I would think would be probable causes. George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: breakage I am slightly puzzled, and I thought that I would see what others'experience has been. About a year and a half ago, a house guest friendof mine broke a vintage Leonard. The break was about 3-4 inches belowthe female ferrule. Just recently I was given two very nice rods supershape--real excellent condition with only one problem. Both rods had abroken section.One a Philipson Premium had a broken tip about one inchabove the ferrule, and the other an Edwards DeLuxe was broken about aninch below the female ferrule. The puzzling thing is that all threebreaks are clean breaks perpendicular to the rod shaft. There is nosplintering whatever. The breaks all look like a glass rod break.None of the breaks are at a node, none show any evidence of pinchingsqueezing or bruising (screen door or car door breaks). All are farenough away from the ferrule that there is no reason to suspect poorferrule fitting. It seems that most breaks I see are either parallelwith the rod shaft or if not show a brush like bread with lots ofsplinters. Does any one have any idea why a rod should break in this manner. Incidentally I built a new mid for the Leonard, Scarf spliced thePhilipson, and am sitting here wondering how in heck I'll ever find aEdwards female ferrule. They are quite distinct, and any old ferrulewill not work. Thanks, Ralph from ragnarig@integrityol.com Sun Dec 6 08:14:11 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A36E12030112; Sun, 06 Dec 1998 06:23:42 PDT Subject: Re: polyurathane Dear Onis Could you tell us what sort of item you used for the clear tube, andpossibly where you got it? Thanks,Davy from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Sun Dec 6 08:20:18 1998 ix8.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: ferrule fitting This may have been posted already but I will pass it along anyway. Ever take that male ferrule down just a little to much? Wish you couldtake back that last swipe with the file? Here's a way to recover. Get asmall bag of sand from the reptile section of your local pet store. It iswell washed and very fine. Fill the male ferrule to about 3/4 full. Nowtake a piece of music wire (or nail or similar rod) a little smaller thanthe inside of the ferrule and a couple of inches long. Place the end ofthe ferrule on the surface of an anvil, insert the music wire rod andstrike it with a hammer. Not to hard, I use a tack hammer. The sandredirects the force outwards causing the case to swell. Use a bodkin toloosen the sand and pour it out and you have a snug fit. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Dec 6 08:45:21 1998 Subject: Re: breakage In a message dated 12/6/98 3:42:02 AM, you wrote: Ralph - I've seen a number of rods broken in this manner, but it wasalwaysright at the ferrule/cane junction. They were mostly production rods withpoorly crafted transitions from cane to ferrule. I think these areas"hinged"and produced stress concentrations that caused something akin to fatigueinmetal and eventually, to the clean break. I once saw a graphite salt waterflyrod fail the same way. The break was at the exact spot where the rod wasclamped into the roof rack of a beach buggy for long periods of time.Is there something in the taper of the rods that would suggest a sharphingein the break area? Was a heavy guide foot mounted there? The suggestionofwater damage is interesting, do the rods show signs of that, like rustedguidefeet? from rmoon@ida.net Sun Dec 6 09:01:06 1998 Subject: Re: breakage Tom That is the puzzling thing. I have seen rods break at the ferrule in thissamemanner, but in all cases these breaks were from one to four inches away from theferrule. Rot is not a consideration, since all rods were in excellent shape. TheEdwards for example looks like it has never been used, although thesoiling of thecork indicates that it has. The Leonard was really well taken care of, andthePhillipson was in almost as good condition as the Edwards. As I say, I canfindno evidence of abuse in the broken area, although that is not to say that itmaynot have happened. The really strange thing is that all of these rods werequality rods. Thanks to all for the input.Ralph from ragnarig@integrityol.com Sun Dec 6 10:07:28 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id ADFD12460056; Sun, 06 Dec 1998 08:17:01 PDT Subject: Re: ferrule fitting - This may have been posted already but I will pass it along anyway. Onis If it was, I missed it and am grateful to you for posting it. It had neveroccured to me! Rest assured I'm on my way to the shop to try it out.Hmmmm..... Wonder if I'll be able to find a ferrule that's a little undersize? Ever take that male ferrule down just a little too much? Wish you couldtake back that last swipe with the file? Here's a way to recover. Get asmall bag of sand from the reptile section of your local pet store. It iswell washed and very fine. Fill the male ferrule to about 3/4 full. Nowtake a piece of music wire (or nail or similar rod) a little smaller thanthe inside of the ferrule and a couple of inches long. Place the end ofthe ferrule on the surface of an anvil, insert the music wire rod andstrike it with a hammer. Not to hard, I use a tack hammer. The sandredirects the force outwards causing the case to swell. Use a bodkin toloosen the sand and pour it out and you have a snug fit. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from anglport@con2.com Sun Dec 6 10:08:07 1998 Subject: Re: breakage Ralph,This may be off-the-wall, but aren't all those sites where a blank wouldbechucked into a lathe for ferrule-station turning? Could it be that somemakers are overtightening the chuck and crushing the cane internally, notto be evidenced for years to come? It's something no one seems to havethought of yet (there may be a good reason for that, but hey, ya nevahknow!).The wheels are always toinin', clickety, clickety, click, (The DesperateHours),Art ?At 07:45 AM 12/6/98 -0700, you wrote: Tom That is the puzzling thing. I have seen rods break at the ferrule in thissamemanner, but in all cases these breaks were from one to four inches away from theferrule. Rot is not a consideration, since all rods were in excellentshape. TheEdwards for example looks like it has never been used, although thesoiling of thecork indicates that it has. The Leonard was really well taken care of,and thePhillipson was in almost as good condition as the Edwards. As I say, Ican findno evidence of abuse in the broken area, although that is not to say thatit maynot have happened. The really strange thing is that all of these rods werequality rods. Thanks to all for the input.Ralph from gwr@seanet.com Sun Dec 6 11:30:10 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA22306 for; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 Subject: For Ralph Moon boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01BE20FB.1F1E1D60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BE20FB.1F1E1D60 Hi Ralph, Thanks for your note - but don't think you're rid of me permanently onthe west coast. My wife's family still lives in Seattle, so we'll returnseveral times a year. When you get a chance, please drop me a short noteprivately. I can't pull your personal email off the posts coming throughthe listserve like I can with most folks. Take care, Russ Golden Witch Rods - "Tools For Natural Philosophy"Golden Witch Technologies, Inc. - "The Golden Age Is Now"gwr@seanet.comhttp://www.goldenwitch.com -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Moving Good Luck Russ, we will miss you in our part of the country. I'm stillgoing to sawup that greenheart plank one of these first daysm, if I can ever get aheadon cane rodbuilding.Ralph ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BE20FB.1F1E1D60 name="Golden Witch.vcf" filename="Golden Witch.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDN:Gooding;John;R.FN:Golden WitchORG:Golden WitchTITLE:Rod Maker &c.TEL;WORK;VOICE:(425) 787- 6599TEL;PAGER;VOICE:noneTEL;WORK;FAX:noneADR;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A;Lynnwood;WA;98037;USALABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A=3D0D=3D0ALynnwood, WA =98037=3D0D=3D0AUSAURL:noneURL:http://www.goldenwitch.comEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:gwr@seanet.comEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BE20FB.1F1E1D60-- from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Dec 6 11:35:14 1998 Subject: Re: breakage In a message dated 12/5/98 7:41:58 PM Pacific Standard Time,rmoon@ida.netwrites: Does any one have any idea why a rod should break in this manner. Don't know for sure, but the clean and a couple of inches below the ferrule breaks I have seen were due to the line getting snagged and the operator yanking back on the rod to get the line loose. Darryl from jczimny@dol.net Sun Dec 6 12:38:58 1998 0500 Subject: RE: breakage =_NextPart_000_01BE211C.DC74DE00" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE211C.DC74DE00 It seems to me that if the blank is breaking cleanly at this point thatthere is no otherreasonable explanation.John Z -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: breakage Ralph,This may be off-the-wall, but aren't all those sites where a blank wouldbechucked into a lathe for ferrule-station turning? Could it be that somemakers are overtightening the chuck and crushing the cane internally, notto be evidenced for years to come? It's something no one seems to havethought of yet (there may be a good reason for that, but hey, ya nevahknow!).The wheels are always toinin', clickety, clickety, click, (The DesperateHours),Art ?At 07:45 AM 12/6/98 -0700, you wrote: Tom That is the puzzling thing. I have seen rods break at the ferrule in thissamemanner, but in all cases these breaks were from one to four inches away from theferrule. Rot is not a consideration, since all rods were in excellentshape. TheEdwards for example looks like it has never been used, although thesoiling of thecork indicates that it has. The Leonard was really well taken care of,and thePhillipson was in almost as good condition as the Edwards. As I say, Ican findno evidence of abuse in the broken area, although that is not to say thatit maynot have happened. The really strange thing is that all of these rods werequality rods. Thanks to all for the input.Ralph ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE211C.DC74DE00 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE211C.DC74DE00-- from rmoon@ida.net Sun Dec 6 12:47:15 1998 Subject: Re: breakage Art Port wrote: Ralph,This may be off-the-wall, but aren't all those sites where a blank wouldbechucked into a lathe for ferrule-station turning? Could it be that somemakers are overtightening the chuck and crushing the cane internally,notto be evidenced for years to come? It's something no one seems to havethought of yet (there may be a good reason for that, but hey, ya nevahknow!).The wheels are always toinin', clickety, clickety, click, (The DesperateHours),Art Art. You just may have something. The locations are indeed where the lathechuck mighthave been. I am willing to consider that you have perhaps explained it.However, is a rod shaft so delicate that it could be weakened byovertightening?I would not have thought so, but your explanation does pinpoint thelocations. Thanks, Ralph from GLohkamp@aol.com Sun Dec 6 14:19:12 1998 Subject: Re: breakage In a message dated 12/6/98 10:48:54 AM Pacific Standard Time,rmoon@ida.netwrites: Could it be ? l would think not or aleast hope not . Whats happening tothe cane when we press nodes ? The heat and the pressure would have tobe muchgreater than just merely chucking up a stick . Gary from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Dec 6 14:36:09 1998 Subject: Re: Re: breakage In a message dated 12/6/98 8:20:30 PM, you wrote: Gary - That is right, but we are staggering the nodes, so any weakness isnot concentrated in one spot. I also think Art has come up with the sourceofthe problem, but the problem may not be just too much chuck pressure, itmighthave been too much sideways pressure from the cutting tool, or it mightbe acombination of both. The fact that the problem is rare suggests unusualcircumstances. This thread proves the wisdom of the advice once given to an apprentice master boatbuilder. He said you should always find time to do some repairwork, because that is the best way to find out what dosen't work.I am going to think about chuck pressure, careful padding, and patientturning next time I set a ferrule. It can't hurt from rmoon@ida.net Sun Dec 6 15:00:23 1998 Subject: Re: breakage Tom Smithwick wroteThis thread proves the wisdom of the advice once given to an apprentice master boatbuilder. He said you should always find time to do somerepairwork, because that is the best way to find out what dosen't work.I am going to think about chuck pressure, careful padding, and patientturning next time I set a ferrule. It can't hurt Tom I loved the story. It is so very true. You can bet that I will bepayingmore attention from now on. ThanksRalph from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Dec 6 15:07:03 1998 Subject: Re: Re: breakage Ralph,I have a So. Bend rod broken the same way. The culprit in this case ascreendoor.Bret from LUU@NMDHST.CC.NIH.GOV Sun Dec 6 15:44:15 1998 Subject: ROUGH PLANING FORMS Hi All,Does anyone knows how to make a wooden 82.5* planing forms using atablesaw with blades only can be tilted to the left?. I have had no luck inusing the table saw. Perhaps there is an alternative way of making it.Thank you for your advice.Andy from LUU@NMDHST.CC.NIH.GOV Sun Dec 6 15:49:35 1998 Subject: Starrets' 60* point Hi all,I tried to ordered the 60* point for a dial caliper from MSC but don't havethe Starrets' product number for the 60* points. Does anyone have theproduct number for 60* degrees points by chance. Greatly appreciated.Andy from LUU@NMDHST.CC.NIH.GOV Sun Dec 6 15:53:00 1998 Subject: Eastcoast rodmakers Hello Eastcoast Rodmakers,Are we going to have a gathering of the rodmakers in the eastcoast.Andy from ragnarig@integrityol.com Sun Dec 6 16:05:16 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A1DC58E005E; Sun, 06 Dec 1998 14:14:52 PDT Subject: Re: ROUGH PLANING FORMS boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0027_01BE2121.14304E20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01BE2121.14304E20 Andy Are you wanting to cut an 82 1/2 degree bevel along the corner of a =board? If you, can you rotate the work 90 degrees and cut the bevel at =7 1/2 degrees? Although I'm not sure what this is used for. Is this =something Garrison did? Davy Hi All,Does anyone knows how to make a wooden 82.5* planing forms using a =tablesaw with blades only can be tilted to the left?. I have had no luck inusing the table saw. Perhaps there is an alternative way of making it.Thank you for your advice.Andy ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01BE2121.14304E20 Andy Are you wanting to cut an 821/2 = did? = ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01BE2121.14304E20-- from WmFMack@aol.com Sun Dec 6 16:09:03 1998 Subject: Re: I'm back on I'm back on the list after the better part of a year's absence in connectionwith moving to Des Moines. Delays from moving, getting an ISP, nothavingthe correct subscription address (looked it up this pm on Jerry Foster'swebpage), and general work/family time responsibilities. One of the subscribers was kind enough, back in the late spring, to send meaninvite to a flytying group in Ankeny, IA, but I have been unable to locatehisemail, and have not been back on the list to ask him if he would mindsendingme another one. If you are reading would you send me anther one? Thanks. Am working on finishing out the basement to have a shop where I can startbuilding boats again and resume work on my first cane rod. That is stillseveral months off. Have most of the stud walls in but need some wiringbefore doing the insulation and sheetrock. Last fall I had toasted someculmsand almost finished my planing form, so I'm loking forward to getting backinto it. Bill Mack from LUU@NMDHST.CC.NIH.GOV Sun Dec 6 16:22:10 1998 Subject: Re: ROUGH PLANING FORMS Davy I apologize, i worded wrong. I wanted to make a rough planing formwith 30* on one side of the groove and 52.5* on the other, as inWayne's book, using a table saw. My saw can only be adjusted from 0-45degrees cut angle. The blade can only be adjusted to the left. Thanks. Andy ArialAndy ArialAre you wanting to cut an 82 1/2degreebevel along the corner of a board? If you, can you rotate the work 90degrees and cut the bevel at 7 1/2 degrees? Although I'm not sure whatthis is used for. Is this something Garrison did? ArialDavy Hi All, Does anyone knows how to make a wooden 82.5* planing forms using atable saw with blades only can be tilted to the left?. I have had no luckin using the table saw. Perhaps there is an alternative way of makingit. Thank you for your advice. Andy from sshorb@ozip.net Sun Dec 6 16:31:17 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-55785U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Sun, 6 Dec 1998 16:32:06 -0600 Subject: Re: ROUGH PLANING FORMS Andy; Can your fence go to the left of the blade so the blade tilts towardsit, and are you sawing the board down the middle before you try cuttingthe angles? Skip from harry37@epix.net Sun Dec 6 16:33:04 1998 Subject: Re: Eastcoast rodmakers ANDREW LUU wrote: Hello Eastcoast Rodmakers,Are we going to have a gathering of the rodmakers in the eastcoast.Andy How about a date and location? Greg from sshorb@ozip.net Sun Dec 6 16:41:39 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-55785U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Sun, 6 Dec 1998 16:42:28 -0600 Subject: Re: ROUGH PLANING FORMS Andy;Just happened to think, why can't you put a temporary fence on the leftof the blade (blade tilts into the fence) if your regular one can't moveover there. I made one on my saw but the blade tilts into the fence.Skip from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Sun Dec 6 16:45:20 1998 mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net(InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP Subject: Re: Eastcoast rodmakers There was a gathering in the Catskills (New York State) this fall that wastop notch! It was my first and I'll be a "regular". The dates weresomewhere around the 12th of September if I recall. Mark your calendar!! Dennis -----Original Message----- Subject: Eastcoast rodmakers Hello Eastcoast Rodmakers,Are we going to have a gathering of the rodmakers in the eastcoast.Andy from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Dec 6 16:47:48 1998 Subject: Beavering away Hi,just a short posting for a few friends that are trapped in the ongoingsoap opera that is rodmakers.Since I was last on Rodmakers I have been having a lot of fun buildinga binder that uses RF to cure the glue line. Using rf is a productionmethod that has been used for years and I thought could be adapted formy requirements.I am also building 2 more bevellers based on the first one I built.I intend to saw my cane before passing through the beveller becausesplitting is only necessary for hand planing and skinny culms! So I havebeen building some fixtures to accurately saw the culms.I have just acquired a stack of NS coilsI work for a large telecommunications company that dates back to theturn of the century. Before digital systems there were the old manualswitchboard and huge switches and relays that were built with a lot ofnickel silver.I have been coveting coils of unused nickel silver strip for the lastten years and was unable to purchase any of it because the company had apolicy to make spare parts available for obsolete equipment that wasstill being used in third world countriesOur division was sold last year and the new company decided not tobother with the old technology and not to take it to the new hi-techplant they were building.I purchased a slow acting hydraulic press over a year ago that wasperfect for deep drawing and the nickel silver that I was sure was tocome my way.I draw my own reel seats and intend to draw ferrules when I get the timeto make the dies.I want to bring cane rodmaking into the late 90's and not use technologyof the old days.There is a market for quality cane rods today, it is just a matter ofbuilding rods at a price that can compete with graphite.Lets face it, we all start of with a piece of $10 cane!Terry Ackland from stpete@netten.net Sun Dec 6 17:00:06 1998 cedar.netten.net(8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA19009 for ;Sun, 6 Dec 1998 17:00:03 Subject: Re: ROUGH PLANING FORMS Andrew, Not being an experienced woodworker, boatbuilder, machinist, or indeed,any of the handy, hobby, craft -type guy, I, too, had trouble making myroughing forms. But Jack Howell's book made me see it clearly. It issimply a matter of orienting your work to your blade. If you are using two pieces of wood, say 1"x2"x4', you simply set yourblade angle to the angle you want (in this case a 30* angle on one boardand a 52.5* angle for the other board), OR, if that won't work, 90 degrees less the angle you want (90* - 52.5* =37.5*). Then run the wood on its side. Draw it out, think about it and it will be clear. See you're runningwith a 90* fence right? Then whatever angle you SET leaves that anglein the wood plus the offcut an angle that would make 90* when added tothat SET angle! One trick that will make it easier, draw the angles out on EACH end ofthe boards and make the cut fit the drawing. You will clearly see howto make the right cut. Just flip the board around till the angle isright, then set the depth. Another trick which helped my overcome my major difficulty (I'm using acircular saw strapped to the bottom of a portable table), was to use aspare board to make an addition to the fence so that I could cut aportion out of the fence for the saw blade to lean into (like Skip hasset up). That way, the blade and fence could be set so that I COULD NOTcut too deep into my form half. Hope this netscape e-mail drawing comes out clearly. It may not due tothe different spacing different programs have. _______ ____| | /| | | |______/ 60* /_| | | 30*|__ / Perhaps someone else can explain it more clearly and simply. Rick C. ANDREW LUU wrote: Does anyone knows how to make a wooden 82.5* planing forms using atablesaw with blades only can be tilted to the left?. from Anachemrpo@aol.com Sun Dec 6 17:07:36 1998 Subject: No education in the second kick of a mule Saw a return address of hexagon@odyssee.net. Immediately DELETED. from Turbotrk@aol.com Sun Dec 6 17:54:34 1998 Subject: Re: Planing forms Sir Wayne, Oh please post your tips on fine tuning a planing form. I am inthe process of building two (don't ask why). I would love to see what youcame up with. stuart millersoon to be a rod builder from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Dec 6 18:06:10 1998 Mon, 7 Dec 1998 08:05:50 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: ferrule fitting Onis,guerrilla ferrule fitting! I like it. Thanks. Tony On Sun, 6 Dec 1998, Onis Cogburn wrote: This may have been posted already but I will pass it along anyway. Ever take that male ferrule down just a little to much? Wish you couldtake back that last swipe with the file? Here's a way to recover. Get asmall bag of sand from the reptile section of your local pet store. It iswell washed and very fine. Fill the male ferrule to about 3/4 full. Nowtake a piece of music wire (or nail or similar rod) a little smaller thanthe inside of the ferrule and a couple of inches long. Place the end ofthe ferrule on the surface of an anvil, insert the music wire rod andstrike it with a hammer. Not to hard, I use a tack hammer. The sandredirects the force outwards causing the case to swell. Use a bodkin toloosen the sand and pour it out and you have a snug fit. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from anglport@con2.com Sun Dec 6 18:09:35 1998 Subject: Re: breakage Ralph,Can you think of anything else that goes on there? Maybe a predictableslackening of the thread when glue-binding a few inches before the end? Ireally did go at this from left field. I was floored when John thought Imight have a point. I fully expected to get a flame or two out of theopinion!Still clickin',Art At 11:31 AM 12/6/98 -0700, you wrote: from Turbotrk@aol.com Sun Dec 6 18:10:40 1998 Subject: Re: tapping holes I have a question. Is taping lube the same as thread cutting oil? Is thereadifference? stuart miller from fiveside@net-gate.com Sun Dec 6 18:10:41 1998 (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA12905 for ;Sun, 6 Dec 1998 19:11:35 Subject: Re: Breakage To the listCould guide spacing be a factor in breakage? The only breakage other thanscreen doors I ever encountered seemed to be attributable to lack of aguideat the female ferrule. Bill from anglport@con2.com Sun Dec 6 18:16:16 1998 Subject: Re: breakage Bret,I think we can DEFINITELY discount the lathe in that case . About yourprevious observation, though. When we press the nodes the cane has noglueto crush. Perhaps the crystallized glue at the point of pressure allows anunnatural deformation and ..CRACK!Art At 04:06 PM 12/6/98 EST, you wrote:Ralph,I have a So. Bend rod broken the same way. The culprit in this case ascreendoor.Bret from channer@hubwest.com Sun Dec 6 18:20:11 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id AFA83770130; Sun, 06 Dec 1998 17:22:00 MST Subject: Re: ROUGH PLANING FORMS At 04:44 PM 12/6/98 -0400, you wrote:Hi All,Does anyone knows how to make a wooden 82.5* planing forms using atablesaw with blades only can be tilted to the left?. I have had no luck inusing the table saw. Perhaps there is an alternative way of making it.Thank you for your advice.Andy Andy;Run one side of the form thru with the mating side of the form against thefence and run the other side of the form thru with the top of the formagainst the fence. Or do it like I do, use a one piece rough form made bysetting the blade at 30d and the blade height at however deep youwant(usea scrap piece to check height.)After the first pass, move the fence afraction and lower the blade a fraction, again , use a piece of scrap totest. This will give you a sqaure shaped groove tipped 30d to the top ofthe board and it will have a liitle hook on the edge to help hold the stripin the form at the correct angle. John from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Sun Dec 6 18:20:58 1998 ix14.ix.netcom.com via smap(V1.3) Subject: Re: polyurathane Sure. The place is called Breed Hardware. It is a general purposehardware store here in Austin. They are a pretty well equiped hardwarestore. I sort of stumbled over it looking for set screws. They had somelucite rods and the plastic tubes. the tube is 3/4 ID and has about a 1/8"thick walls. It was a little bigger than a standard PVC pipe so I put thePVC "T" on my lathe and turned the fitting to match the tube. Everythingelse was standard PVC and I used PVC cement to stick it together. Thestand was cobbled up from scrap stuff I had lying around. Dear Onis Could you tell us what sort of item you used for the clear tube, andpossibly where you got it? Thanks,Davy from tball@mail.portup.com Sun Dec 6 18:31:34 1998 Subject: An Award Aye for a good cause from tball@mail.portup.com Sun Dec 6 18:32:58 1998 Subject: An Award Aye to a good cause! Tom from Trout Lake from saltwein@swbell.net Sun Dec 6 18:40:04 1998 SAA13250 Subject: Re: ferrule fitting I like it too, but what do you do if the ferrule is fitted on the rod? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Dec 6 19:27:19 1998 Subject: Re: No education in the second kick of a mule I do build rods, I cannot be on the wrong list. Perhaps there should bea Rod Poseurs and wannabe list for your type?Terry Ackland Anachemrpo@aol.com wrote: Saw a return address of hexagon@odyssee.net. Immediately DELETED. from rmoon@ida.net Sun Dec 6 19:37:19 1998 Subject: Re: breakage Art Port wrote: Ralph,Can you think of anything else that goes on there? Maybe a predictableslackening of the thread when glue-binding a few inches before the end?Ireally did go at this from left field. I was floored when John thought Imight have a point. I fully expected to get a flame or two out of theopinion!Still clickin',Art At 11:31 AM 12/6/98 -0700, you wrote: Art bear in mind that these were not rods I made, but rather goodcommercialrods. I really don't know what else could be contributory, but the help Ihavehad the last couple of days gives me much to think about Ralph from jaquin@netsync.net Sun Dec 6 20:25:04 1998 quartz.netsync.net (8.8.5/8.6.12)with SMTP id VAA06627 for ; Sun, 6 Dec1998 21:25:00 -0500 Subject: Re: tapping holes Turbotrk@aol.com wrote: I have a question. Is taping lube the same as thread cutting oil? Is thereadifference? stuart millerhi stuart, a friend, who runs a small tool supply house, told me to useany oil when hand-taping, and not to get exciting about laying money out i had. worked fine! use a quality two flute tap. if it starts tobind, back it off, clear the shavings, and continue tapping. nothing toit really. jerry from JBeardsle@aol.com Sun Dec 6 21:05:00 1998 Subject: Unsubscribe from mevans@acxiom.com Sun Dec 6 21:11:44 1998 (5.5.2232.9) Subject: RE: ROUGH PLANING FORMS Andy,David's original advice is right on track. Keep the fence on the right sideof the blade. Justset the blade to a 37.5 degree angle and turn your work 90 degrees. Checkthe final angle onyour work, not the saw. Contrary to popular belief, raise your blade as high as you can withoutrunning into your fence.(Use a thin push stick). This will reduce the tendency to burn the wood -which will put acavity in the form. BTW, the saw I used had a blade stabilizer on it whichkept this bladewithin a few thousandths lateral variation. This is not necessary, but thecuts I got werealmost perfectly smooth and it is a small investment. To keep the wood stable, I used two feather boards- one on the fenceapplying downward pressurethe other on the left side, pushing the work into the fence. I'd recommendthis because itallows good forward motion and protects you against kick backs. However, your will need a nicestraight piece as these won't correct much of a bow. One more little trick is to make the forms a foot or two longer than youneed. from myexperience, if you have straight wood, any variation in the cut is likely tobe at the end ofthe work. This way, you can cut a few inches off if needed and probablyhave a really niceform. Sorry for the long answer, but I hope this helps. Mark ----------From: David [SMTP:ragnarig@integrityol.com]Sent: Sunday, December 06, 1998 4:03 PM Subject: Re: ROUGH PLANING FORMS Andy Are you wanting to cut an 82 1/2 degree bevel along the corner of aboard? If you, canyou rotate the work 90 degrees and cut the bevel at 7 1/2 degrees? Although I'm not sure whatthis is used for. Is this something Garrison did? Davy Hi All,Does anyone knows how to make a wooden 82.5* planing forms usinga tablesaw with blades only can be tilted to the left?. I have had no luck inusing the table saw. Perhaps there is an alternative way of makingit.Thank you for your advice.Andy from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Sun Dec 6 22:44:04 1998 ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap(V1.3) Subject: Re: ferrule fitting Punt? Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com I like it too, but what do you do if the ferrule is fitted on the rod? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from seanmcs@ar.com.au Mon Dec 7 00:14:29 1998 Subject: Re: ferrule fitting Tony: This is about Nyatex epoxy. I ask if you have used it, and if itmight clean up with vinegar and denatured alcohol, as described by JackHowell. Also, do you know of a source in Oz please. If not, I haveNyatex's address and have written them already. Cane culms: is there a source here. I have some but might need more.Anything you could say would be useful. Thanks. Sean McSahrry from AHanzich@NA2.US.ML.com Mon Dec 7 07:19:56 1998 IAA02528 Subject: RE: breakage Ralph, I had the same experience several years ago with a seven footGarrison, still crying! Al Hanzich732-878-6567 -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, December 05, 1998 10:25 PM Subject: breakage I am slightly puzzled, and I thought that I would see whatothers'experience has been. About a year and a half ago, a houseguest friendof mine broke a vintage Leonard. The break was about 3-4inches belowthe female ferrule. Just recently I was given two very nicerods supershape--real excellent condition with only one problem. Bothrods had a broken section.One a Philipson Premium had a brokentipabout one inchabove the ferrule, and the other an Edwards DeLuxe wasbroken about aninch below the female ferrule. The puzzling thing is thatall threebreaks are clean breaks perpendicular to the rod shaft.There is nosplintering whatever. The breaks all look like a glass rodbreak.None of the breaks are at a node, none show any evidence ofpinchingsqueezing or bruising (screen door or car door breaks).All are farenough away from the ferrule that there is no reason tosuspect poorferrule fitting. It seems that most breaks I see are eitherparallelwith the rod shaft or if not show a brush like bread withlots ofsplinters. Does any one have any idea why a rod should break in thismanner. Incidentally I built a new mid for the Leonard, Scarfspliced thePhilipson, and am sitting here wondering how in heck I'llever find aEdwards female ferrule. They are quite distinct, and anyold ferrulewill not work. Thanks, Ralph from saltwein@swbell.net Mon Dec 7 07:23:40 1998 HAA18918 Subject: Masters Guide If anyone is interested the Garrison-Carmichael '94 release is in theVFS auction. Currently $53. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from destinycon@mindspring.com Mon Dec 7 07:26:53 1998 Subject: Re: Starrets' 60* point part # PT06632/6 GWH At 04:50 PM 12/6/98 -0400, you wrote:Hi all,I tried to ordered the 60* point for a dial caliper from MSC but don't havethe Starrets' product number for the 60* points. Does anyone have theproduct number for 60* degrees points by chance. Greatly appreciated.Andy from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Mon Dec 7 08:54:28 1998 (modemcable134.174.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.09.21.23.34)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, Subject: BBQ Bamboo BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_3iwicwV/UUVvjgD/Gh0kQw)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_3iwicwV/UUVvjgD/Gh0kQw) BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_DRu2Fy160iRY+ggyIWcoIw)" --Boundary_(ID_DRu2Fy160iRY+ggyIWcoIw) Has anyone tried flaming a culm using a gas BBQ? I don't mean laying it onthe BBQ and using a torch as Wayne suggests in his book but actuallyplacingthe culm on the grill with the heat on low and gently passing it through. Richard --Boundary_(ID_DRu2Fy160iRY+ggyIWcoIw) anyone tried flaming a culm using a gas BBQ? I don't mean laying it on = and using a torch as Wayne suggests in his book but actually placing the = through. Richard --Boundary_(ID_DRu2Fy160iRY+ggyIWcoIw)-- --Boundary_(ID_3iwicwV/UUVvjgD/Gh0kQw) mail).vcf" BEGIN:VCARDVERSION:2.1N:Nantel;Richard;;;FN:Richard Nantel (E-mail)ORG:Le groupe MENTOR;TITLE:TEL;WORK;VOICE:(514) 393- 3292TEL;HOME;VOICE:(514) 485-2287TEL;PAGER;VOICE:[1] (514) 111- 1111TEL;WORK;FAX:(514) 393-1483ADR;WORK:;;4374 Old Orchard Avenue;Monteal;Quebec;H4A 3B4;CanadaLABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:4374 Old Orchard =Avenue=3D0D=3D0AMonteal, Quebec H4A 3B4=3D0D=3D0ACanadaADR;HOME:;;4374 Old Orchard Avenue;Monteal;Quebec;H4A 3B4;CanadaLABEL;HOME;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:4374 Old Orchard =Avenue=3D0D=3D0AMonteal, Quebec H4A 3B4=3D0D=3D0ACanadaEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:richard.nantel@videotron.caREV:19980514T133343ZEND:VCARD --Boundary_(ID_3iwicwV/UUVvjgD/Gh0kQw)-- from tom@cet-inc.com Mon Dec 7 10:20:48 1998 Subject: Re: Eastcoast rodmakers The Roscoe meeting is always top notch. There was some talk at Roscoeaboutalso having a meeting in the PA Cumberland Valley where probably thefirstmodern day gatherings were held several years ago. We are currentlytryingto set something up for PA next Fall. Tom -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Eastcoast rodmakers There was a gathering in the Catskills (New York State) this fall thatwastop notch! It was my first and I'll be a "regular". The dates weresomewhere around the 12th of September if I recall. Mark your calendar!! Dennis -----Original Message-----From: ANDREW LUU Date: Sunday, December 06, 1998 4:56 PMSubject: Eastcoast rodmakers Hello Eastcoast Rodmakers,Are we going to have a gathering of the rodmakers in the eastcoast.Andy from LUU@NMDHST.CC.NIH.GOV Mon Dec 7 10:42:09 1998 Subject: Regional chapters or clubs for Rodmakers Hello All,What are you thoughts on setting up regional chapters for the rodmakers. Idon't know how many members we have, but it sure be nice to meet onceverymonths or once 3 months to share experiences and techniques of cane rodmaking. Just a though.Andy from pdcorlis@nidc.edu Mon Dec 7 11:24:04 1998 with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 07 Dec 1998 09:24:57 -0800 Subject: Re: Regional Rodmakers Great idea, regional get togethers sound like a fun way to share ideas. Ilive in Coeurd'Alene, Idaho in the inland northwest, anyone else nearby? Phil from m.boretti@agonet.it Mon Dec 7 11:32:26 1998 Subject: Info about disconnection. Dear Friends,My computer are disconnected for seven days, all of you who have send meamessages, about me, please, resend.Sincerely,Marco Boretti from WmFMack@aol.com Mon Dec 7 13:51:18 1998 Subject: Re: Re: tapping holes don't know, but I used thread cutting oil for both drilling and tapping andit worked okay. from CALucker@aol.com Mon Dec 7 13:59:00 1998 Subject: Re: Powell A-9 tapers I don't know what you mean by A-9. That does not describe an EC taper. Youneed to include the fraction that you add every six inches. But if you add a common fraction, such as 1/4 or 1/5, you are going tocome upwith a rod that is too fast for my liking, and was probably too fast, toocollapsable, for EC's liking as well. I have never seen any EC A-9 and Icollect EC's and have handled quite a number of them. You should probablylook at starting with an A-8 + 1/4. Now, don't make the mistake in thinking that you can duplicte what EC didwiththese tapers unless you are using a saw yourself. Remember, an A taper is a curve. But when you cut a curve on a saw, thecurvewill be less than intended. So if you duplicate an A taper on planing formyou will get strips that reflect the taper formula, but different than whatPowell would have created with the Powell saw. Did I explain this clearly enough? Chris Lucker from saltwein@swbell.net Mon Dec 7 18:07:37 1998 SAA13469 Subject: test, nmsg from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Mon Dec 7 19:22:43 1998 (modemcable126.174.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.09.21.23.34)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, Subject: The Planing Form Newsletter BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_eAW+ddDmDUp3PAGT9e6NOg)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_eAW+ddDmDUp3PAGT9e6NOg) BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_0/HJFGyv4G9QYKzi5Uj3gg)" --Boundary_(ID_0/HJFGyv4G9QYKzi5Uj3gg) Does anyone have a phone number or e-mail address for The Planing Formnewsletter? I'd like to subscribe but don't know the costs for a Canadiansubscription. Thanks in advance Richard --Boundary_(ID_0/HJFGyv4G9QYKzi5Uj3gg) anyone have a phone number or e-mail address for The Planing Form = subscription. in advance Richard --Boundary_(ID_0/HJFGyv4G9QYKzi5Uj3gg)-- --Boundary_(ID_eAW+ddDmDUp3PAGT9e6NOg) mail).vcf" BEGIN:VCARDVERSION:2.1N:Nantel;Richard;;;FN:Richard Nantel (E-mail)ORG:Le groupe MENTOR;TITLE:TEL;WORK;VOICE:(514) 393- 3292TEL;HOME;VOICE:(514) 485-2287TEL;PAGER;VOICE:[1] (514) 111- 1111TEL;WORK;FAX:(514) 393-1483ADR;WORK:;;4374 Old Orchard Avenue;Monteal;Quebec;H4A 3B4;CanadaLABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:4374 Old Orchard =Avenue=3D0D=3D0AMonteal, Quebec H4A 3B4=3D0D=3D0ACanadaADR;HOME:;;4374 Old Orchard Avenue;Monteal;Quebec;H4A 3B4;CanadaLABEL;HOME;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:4374 Old Orchard =Avenue=3D0D=3D0AMonteal, Quebec H4A 3B4=3D0D=3D0ACanadaEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:richard.nantel@videotron.caREV:19980514T133343ZEND:VCARD --Boundary_(ID_eAW+ddDmDUp3PAGT9e6NOg)-- from RVenneri@aol.com Mon Dec 7 20:01:12 1998 Subject: Re: test, nmsg Yea its been awful quiet huh Steve. Where is everybody Bob V from stpete@netten.net Mon Dec 7 20:03:25 1998 cedar.netten.net(8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA02634 for ;Mon, 7 Dec 1998 20:03:22 Subject: Test test from bacon@idt.net Mon Dec 7 20:20:50 1998 Subject: Re: Masters Guide Steve wrote: If anyone is interested the Garrison-Carmichael '94 release is in theVFS auction. Currently $53. Regards, SteveIndependence, MOsteve,where or how do i go about getting the VFS auction? sorry for theignorance.jean from bacon@idt.net Mon Dec 7 20:23:33 1998 Subject: Re: Regional chapters or clubs for Rodmakers ANDREW LUU wrote: Hello All,What are you thoughts on setting up regional chapters for the rodmakers. Idon't know how many members we have, but it sure be nice to meet onceverymonths or once 3 months to share experiences and techniques of cane rodmaking. Just a though.Andyandy,that sounds great, i would definitely be interested as everyone seemsto have so many different ways of doing things...i've just gottenstarted and need all the help there is.jean (NYC) from gwr@seanet.com Mon Dec 7 20:24:15 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA17447 for; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 Subject: Re: The Planing Form Newsletter boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01BE220E.D3C76820" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BE220E.D3C76820 Hi Richard, Try Ron Barch (editor) at this email address: rbarch@remc8.k12.mi.us Good luck, Russ Golden Witch Rods - "Tools For Natural Philosophy"Golden Witch Technologies, Inc. - "The Golden Age Is Now"gwr@seanet.comhttp://www.goldenwitch.com -----Original Message----- Subject: The Planing Form Newsletter Does anyone have a phone number or e-mail address for The Planing Formnewsletter? I'd like to subscribe but don't know the costs for a Canadiansubscription. Thanks in advance Richard ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BE220E.D3C76820 name="Golden Witch.vcf" filename="Golden Witch.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDN:Gooding;John;R.FN:Golden WitchORG:Golden WitchTITLE:Rod Maker &c.TEL;WORK;VOICE:(425) 787- 6599TEL;PAGER;VOICE:noneTEL;WORK;FAX:noneADR;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A;Lynnwood;WA;98037;USALABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:16829 6th Ave. =West=3D0D=3D0ASuite #2B=3D0D=3D0A=3D0D=3D0ALynnwood, WA =98037=3D0D=3D0AUSAURL:noneURL:http://www.goldenwitch.comEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:gwr@seanet.comEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BE220E.D3C76820-- from bacon@idt.net Mon Dec 7 20:26:01 1998 Subject: Re: The Planing Form Newsletter Richard Nantel wrote: Does anyone have a phone number or e-mail address for The Planing Formnewsletter? I'd like to subscribe but don't know the costs for aCanadian subscription. Thanks in advance Richard Name: Richard Nantel (E-mail).vcfPart 1.2 Type: unspecified type (application/octet-stream)Encoding: quoted-printablerichard,if you get that info on the planing form mag. please let me know(bacon@idt.net), if it's not too much trouble. thank youjean from sjstill@iquest.net Mon Dec 7 20:53:11 1998 0000 (209.43.55.186) Subject: Re: Masters Guide Jean, where or how do i go about getting the VFS auction? sorry for theignorance. Point your browser to and click on the Marketplacesection. They have both classifieds and the Auction. You have to register kind of aggravating, just like a real auction. Have seen some things go formore than they usually retail for, so you gotta watch it. Hope this helps. Steve Steve and Julie StillabowerIndianapolis, IN ICQ 19299644 from jhewitt@cmn.net Mon Dec 7 21:25:55 1998 Subject: Re: The Planing Form Newsletter 4E6B47CDCF1ED94931AB16A4" --------------4E6B47CDCF1ED94931AB16A4 Richard,I have looked through a stack of "Planning Forms" and Ronseems a bit secretive with his phone number, and doesn't list an E-mailaddress. However the Subscription price in North America is just $20.00per year. You can contact Ron Barch at:The Planning Form NewsletterPO Box 365Hastings, MI49058USA John H. Richard Nantel wrote: Does anyone have a phone number or e-mail address for The PlaningForm newsletter? I'd like to subscribe but don't know the costs for aCanadian subscription.Thanks in advanceRichard --------------4E6B47CDCF1ED94931AB16A4 Richard, I have looked through a stack of "Planning Forms" and Ron seems a bitsecretivewith his phone number, and doesn't list an E-mail address. However theSubscription price in North America is just $20.00 per year. You cancontactRon Barch at:The Planning Form NewsletterPO Box 365Hastings, MI49058USA John H. Richard Nantel wrote: anyone have a phone number or e-mail address for The Planing Formnewsletter?I'd like to subscribe but don't know the costs for a Canadiansubscription.Thanks --------------4E6B47CDCF1ED94931AB16A4-- from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Dec 7 22:03:21 1998 Subject: Re: test, nmsg Bob,I'm here, Were are you.Must be alot of problems lately.Everyone is getting thrown out. Dave L. from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Dec 7 22:45:33 1998 Subject: Ask A Favor I normally am not involved in restorations but I have remade a tip forafriend and am in need of just a short bit of pinning wire - I think it is .019nickle silver (whatever size and flavor Lyle used) and I need enough torepinthe ferrule on one tip 3/8" or less - If Dave or others are reading this andcan bail me out I'd appreciate it Wayne P.S. - just slip it in the mail and include a note as to the IOU thing Wayne Cattanach15315 Apploe AveCasnovia, Mi 49318 from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Mon Dec 7 22:47:37 1998 Subject: Re: Masters Guide Here's a direct link: http://www.flyshop.com/Marketplace/main.cfm?content=auction&page=index Regards, Bob On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Jean Conelli wrote: Steve wrote: If anyone is interested the Garrison-Carmichael '94 release is in theVFS auction. Currently $53. Regards, SteveIndependence, MOsteve,where or how do i go about getting the VFS auction? sorry for theignorance.jean from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Mon Dec 7 23:54:38 1998 (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP Subject: Re: Masters Guide Before you buy books at an auction, you may want to do a search on:http://www.bibliofind.comorhttp://www.interloc.comand see what is available from book dealers and what they are asking.At least it is a good check to avoid overbidding in an auction. George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Masters Guide Jean, where or how do i go about getting the VFS auction? sorry for theignorance. Point your browser to and click on the Marketplacesection. They have both classifieds and the Auction. You have to register kind of aggravating, just like a real auction. Have seen some things goformore than they usually retail for, so you gotta watch it. Hope this helps. Steve Steve and Julie StillabowerIndianapolis, IN ICQ 19299644 from channer@hubwest.com Tue Dec 8 00:35:27 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A91830D0144; Mon, 07 Dec 1998 23:37:12 MST Subject: Re: Powell A-9 tapers At 02:50 PM 12/7/98 EST, you wrote:I don't know what you mean by A-9. That does not describe an EC taper. Youneed to include the fraction that you add every six inches. But if you add a common fraction, such as 1/4 or 1/5, you are going tocome upwith a rod that is too fast for my liking, and was probably too fast, toocollapsable, for EC's liking as well. I have never seen any EC A-9 and Icollect EC's and have handled quite a number of them. You should probablylook at starting with an A-8 + 1/4. Now, don't make the mistake in thinking that you can duplicte what EC didwiththese tapers unless you are using a saw yourself. Remember, an A taper is a curve. But when you cut a curve on a saw, thecurvewill be less than intended. So if you duplicate an A taper on planing formyou will get strips that reflect the taper formula, but different thanwhatPowell would have created with the Powell saw. Did I explain this clearly enough? Chris Lucker Chris;Thanks for your response. I guess I should have given the whole taper, itwas the A-9x1/5 that was mentioned in the latest issue of the PlaningForm.I was just curious as to what these type of taper designs cast like, itseemed like an interesting way to design a rod. I would not be surprised ifwe were to find that many of the makers designed their rods in a simlarfashion, it makes more sense to a non-engineer like me than E. G.'scomplicted mathematics and stress formula's. Would you say that an A- 8x1/4is as fast as is practical, and could it be built on a planing form andstill turn out as desired? John from caneboy@xtn.net Tue Dec 8 05:56:37 1998 Subject: Re: The Planing Form Newsletter Richard,You might try 616-945-2329. The latest Canadian subscription ratesare$20.00 ($30.00 outside of North America) as is listed in the latestissue. Mike Richard Nantel wrote: Does anyone have a phone number or e-mail address for The Planing Formnewsletter? I'd like to subscribe but don't know the costs for aCanadian subscription. Thanks in advance Richard Richard Nantel (E-mail) VOICE:(514) 393-3292Le groupe MENTOR Richard Nantel (E-mail)VOICE:(514) 393-3292 Le groupe MENTOR4374 Old Orchard Avenue Home Voice: (514) 485-2287Monteal Voice Pager: [1] (514) 111-1111Quebec Work Fax: (514) 393- 1483H4A 3B4CanadaAdditional Information:Version 2.1Last Name NantelFirst NameRichardLabel Work4374 Old Orchard Avenue Monteal, Quebec H4A 3B4 CanadaLabel Home4374 Old Orchard Avenue Monteal, Quebec H4A 3B4 CanadaRevision 19980514T133343Z from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Tue Dec 8 09:12:32 1998 (5.5.2407.0) I just got off the phone after placing a order for 16/4 ($18.05 natural) and24/4 ($17.85 natural) cotton glace thread. The 16/4 is a 4800 yard tubeandthe 24/4 is a 6000 yard tube. If anybody needs some I got it from "AtlantaThread & Supply CO" 800-847-1001. cheapest price I could find aroundhere. from LUU@NMDHST.CC.NIH.GOV Tue Dec 8 14:33:40 1998 Subject: TEST TESTING from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Tue Dec 8 14:52:44 1998 Subject: TEST RO>TESTING Don't know who's testing, but I received your test. My ISP strips thename off of messages. The list seems awfully slow today doesn't it. Well back to work Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net from thramer@presys.com Tue Dec 8 15:06:32 1998 Subject: Re: Ask A Favor WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: I normally am not involved in restorations but I have remade a tip friend and am in need of just a short bit of pinning wire - I think it is.019nickle silver (whatever size and flavor Lyle used) and I need enough torepinthe ferrule on one tip 3/8" or less - If Dave or others are reading thisandcan bail me out I'd appreciate it Wayne P.S. - just slip it in the mail and include a note as to the IOU thing Wayne Cattanach15315 Apploe AveCasnovia, Mi 49318I use .025. If it would help I will send some alongA.J. from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Tue Dec 8 15:14:00 1998 216.mmtl.videotron.net) sims.3.5.1998.09.21.23.34)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, Subject: Splitting gadget BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_G/aQEDxSQ+z4aMQKVFEPdw)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_G/aQEDxSQ+z4aMQKVFEPdw) BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_JnIsK9FYd+qIItZVuxP2kg)" --Boundary_(ID_JnIsK9FYd+qIItZVuxP2kg) Here's something to kick start the list which has been exceeding slow foracouple of days. In two different books, I've seen pictures of a splitting gadget that seemsto make splitting a breeze. It is a cylinder with many blades radiating outat equal angles to each other. Looked at from the top, it resembles a sunwith many radiating rays. You place the cylinder in the tip of the culm andhammer it down with a mallet. The culm splits perfectly into many equalstrips. Very cool and would be a great gadget for someone on the list tomake and sell. Richard --Boundary_(ID_JnIsK9FYd+qIItZVuxP2kg) something to kick start the list which has been exceeding slow for a = days. different books, I've seen pictures of a splitting gadget that seems to = splitting a breeze. It is a cylinder with many blades radiating out at = angles to each other. Looked at from the top, it resembles a sun with = radiating rays. You place the cylinder in the tip of the culm and hammer = with a mallet. The culm splits perfectly into many equal strips. Very = sell. Richard --Boundary_(ID_JnIsK9FYd+qIItZVuxP2kg)-- --Boundary_(ID_G/aQEDxSQ+z4aMQKVFEPdw) mail).vcf" BEGIN:VCARDVERSION:2.1N:Nantel;Richard;;;FN:Richard Nantel (E-mail)ORG:Le groupe MENTOR;TITLE:TEL;WORK;VOICE:(514) 393- 3292TEL;HOME;VOICE:(514) 485-2287TEL;PAGER;VOICE:[1] (514) 111- 1111TEL;WORK;FAX:(514) 393-1483ADR;WORK:;;4374 Old Orchard Avenue;Monteal;Quebec;H4A 3B4;CanadaLABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:4374 Old Orchard =Avenue=3D0D=3D0AMonteal, Quebec H4A 3B4=3D0D=3D0ACanadaADR;HOME:;;4374 Old Orchard Avenue;Monteal;Quebec;H4A 3B4;CanadaLABEL;HOME;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:4374 Old Orchard =Avenue=3D0D=3D0AMonteal, Quebec H4A 3B4=3D0D=3D0ACanadaEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:richard.nantel@videotron.caREV:19980514T133343ZEND:VCARD --Boundary_(ID_G/aQEDxSQ+z4aMQKVFEPdw)-- from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Tue Dec 8 15:23:02 1998 (5.5.2407.0) Subject: RE: Splitting gadget Hida tool on the rodmakers page has them in a variety of cutters. ----------From: Richard Nantel[SMTP:richard.nantel@videotron.ca] Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 1998 1:10 PM Subject: Splitting gadget Here's something to kick start the list which has been exceeding slowfora couple of days. In two different books, I've seen pictures of a splitting gadget thatseems to make splitting a breeze. It is a cylinder with many bladesradiating out at equal angles to each other. Looked at from the top, itresembles a sun with many radiating rays. You place the cylinder in thetip of the culm and hammer it down with a mallet. The culm splitsperfectly into many equal strips. Very cool and would be a great gadget Richard from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Dec 8 15:32:23 1998 via smap (4.1) 13:41:13 PST Subject: Smooth On Glue A friend plans to use Smooth On to glue up a rod. He has used this on longbows with good results. Any warnings or praises about this type of glue? Thanks. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Dec 8 15:46:55 1998 Subject: Re: Splitting gadget In a message dated 12/8/98 1:22:25 PM Pacific Standard Time,richard.nantel@videotron.ca writes: You place the cylinder in the tip of the culm andhammer it down with a mallet. The culm splits perfectly into manyequalstrips. Very cool and would be a great gadget for someone on the list tomake and sell. Call:Hida Tool Co. 1-800-443-5512 Darryl from MICK@welfen-netz.com Tue Dec 8 16:28:16 1998 [195.143.56.1] with SMTP(MDaemon.v2.7.SP4.R) for ; Tue, 08 Dec1998 23:27:40 +0100 Subject: Re: Masters Guide 0FBD42E95D17D6CB9CD3A18F" --------------0FBD42E95D17D6CB9CD3A18F mny tnx but I already have ittight lines Michael Bob Perry wrote: Here's a direct link: http://www.flyshop.com/Marketplace/main.cfm?content=auction&page=index Regards, Bob On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Jean Conelli wrote: Steve wrote: If anyone is interested the Garrison-Carmichael '94 release is in theVFS auction. Currently $53. Regards, SteveIndependence, MOsteve,where or how do i go about getting the VFS auction? sorry for theignorance.jean --------------0FBD42E95D17D6CB9CD3A18F mny tnx but I already have ittight lines Michael Bob Perry wrote:Here's a direct link: http://www.flyshop.com/Marketplace/main.cfm?content=auction&page=index Regards, Bob On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Jean Conelli wrote: Steve wrote: If anyone is interested the Garrison-Carmichael '94 release isin the Regards, SteveIndependence, MOsteve, gettingthe VFS auction? sorry for theignorance.jean --------------0FBD42E95D17D6CB9CD3A18F-- from jaquin@netsync.net Tue Dec 8 17:16:09 1998 quartz.netsync.net(8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA16565 for ;Tue, 8 Dec 1998 18:15:54-0500 Subject: Re: Ask A Favor WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: I normally am not involved in restorations but I have remade a tip friend and am in need of just a short bit of pinning wire - I think it is.019nickle silver (whatever size and flavor Lyle used) and I need enough torepinthe ferrule on one tip 3/8" or less - If Dave or others are reading thisandcan bail me out I'd appreciate it Wayne P.S. - just slip it in the mail and include a note as to the IOU thing Wayne Cattanach15315 Apploe AveCasnovia, Mi 49318hi wayne, if no one has .019 NS wire, but you have a larger diameter, iwill send you my draw bar. you can draw your wire down to the diameteryou want. let me know. jerry quinnjaquin@netsync.net716-267-4200 from drinkr@voicenet.com Tue Dec 8 18:29:15 1998 0000 (207.103.128.100) Subject: Stress Relieved Steel boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01BE22E0.80318420" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BE22E0.80318420 After fighting with CR steel again I found a source locally for stressrelieving, He charged .20 a pound. For 4 bars 7/8 by 6 feet long I paid$50. Has anyone tried to black oxidize their finished forms for rustprotection. If so what set up did you use. thanks David Rinker ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BE22E0.80318420 Rinker ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BE22E0.80318420-- from LECLAIR123@aol.com Tue Dec 8 20:00:38 1998 Subject: Re: Ask A Favor Wayne,I've got some in three sizes. I'm not in my shop atthe moment, but I think they are .025-,035 and .045. Let me know if you want some, I'll send you some.Don't worry about the cost, It's Christmas. It's on me. Dave leClair from jczimny@dol.net Tue Dec 8 20:23:08 1998 0500 Subject: RE: Smooth On Glue =_NextPart_000_01BE22D7.8F461380" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE22D7.8F461380 Never heard of this stuff. Do you know who makes it?John Z -----Original Message----- Subject: Smooth On Glue A friend plans to use Smooth On to glue up a rod. He has used this on longbows with good results. Any warnings or praises about this type of glue? Thanks. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE22D7.8F461380 eJ8+IhcXAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNyb3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYA1AEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAALAA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAUwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAHJvZG1ha2Vyc0B3dWdhdGUud3VzdGwuZWR1AFNNVFAAcm9kbWFrZXJzQHd1Z2F0ZS53dXN0bC5lZHUAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEAAAAbAAAAcm9kbWFrZXJzQHd1Z2F0ZS53dXN0bC5lZHUAAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAAB0AAAAncm9kbWFrZXJzQHd1Z2F0ZS53dXN0bC5lZHUnAAAAAAIBCzABAAAAIAAAAFNNVFA6Uk9ETUFLRVJTQFdVR0FURS5XVVNUTC5FRFUAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAB4A9l8BAAAAGwAAAHJvZG1ha2Vyc0B3dWdhdGUud3VzdGwuZWR1AAACAfdfAQAAAFMAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9UAgAAAAByb2RtYWtlcnNAd3VnYXRlLnd1c3RsLmVkdQBTTVRQAHJvZG1ha2Vyc0B3dWdhdGUud3VzdGwuZWR1AAADAP1fAQAAAAMA/18AAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAiFtAQSAAQATAAAAUkU6IFNtb290aCBPbiBHbHVlAPUFAQWAAwAOAAAAzgcMAAgAEgAUABwAAgAtAQEggAMADgAAAM4HDAAIABIAFAAAAAIAEQEBCYABACEAAABGOEQzRTgwQjAxMjNCRTExOTg2RTRBQ0U2QjlFRkY0NwBpBwEDkAYAXAUAACEAAAALAAIAAQAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMALgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAoCnDVwEjvgEeAHAAAQAAABMAAABSRTogU21vb3RoIE9uIEdsdWUAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG+IwFXu2C89WGOyhHSpMu1JEe65XEAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAQAAAAamN6aW1ueUBkb2wubmV0AAMABhBoS35NAwAHEFkBAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABORVZFUkhFQVJET0ZUSElTU1RVRkZET1lPVUtOT1dXSE9NQUtFU0lUP0pPSE5aLS0tLS1PUklHSU5BTE1FU1NBR0UtLS0tLUZST006TUNET1dFTExDQExBTkVDQ0VEVVNNVFA6AAAAAAIBCRABAAAATAIAAEgCAABGAwAATFpGdYo7IMwDAAoAcmNwZzEyNRYyAPgLYG4OEDAzM50B9yACpAPjAgBjaArA4HNldDAgBxMCgwBQoRB2cHJxMhF2fQqA2QjIIDsJbw4wNQKACoEsdWMAUAsDYwBBdWxabgIgZQumB7F2BJAgBGhlCxEgb2YgdEJoBAAgc3R1ASAuICBEbyB5CGAga7MW8Afgd2gZgADAaweRGGl0PwqiCoBKb2gdA6BaGwQbyAswbGkznjYBQBaQAUASwG90BZBCdBIEMTYgLR6CTz0FEGcLgAdABdAHkHNh/GdlHoMbxh2UHWELEx2WYGktMTQ0AUAc4DEcODABQAzQIiNiIEYVA2E6DINiEWBtY2TBGgBlbGxjQA8BBZAMYy4JgBnAW1NNVOxQOiRPJVFdG8UjUAZgCwIwI7dUClBzZGF5NiwZYAWQZQbQF/EwOAEpEDE5OTggNDogMzkgUE0nR1RvASO3Uk9ETUFLRYBSU0B3dWdhHbA2LiygGQBsJUInSHViNmodwSO3UwRgHaBoIPpPA6BHCkEgLyE6HOQLttkbE0EgA1AIkG4YYAtRbQYxdBmALSBlLyk0AWdDCkE0IHAgYSADYGT5GVAgSDRQEQAEIDQxGGB/GLMCIArjCoAJAA8gBuB3dwQgA/AvcWcvUBhgCXBziRbQdHM2EUFueRog/wrAAwAPIDcxBcASwAtwETAfBCABoAhgBUAYs3R5cK80UBiBGwQ1Qj82IFQRAMxuazlwG8pDaAUQEMBfGxMl/y14GxMTgQBBUAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAAADAIAQ/////0AABzDAvjJHASO+AUAACDDAvjJHASO+AQsAAIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAOFAAAAAAAAAwACgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEIUAAAAAAAADAAWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABShQAAtw0AAB4AJYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFSFAAABAAAABAAAADguMAADACaACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAABhQAAAAAAAAsAL4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAA6FAAAAAAAAAwAwgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEYUAAAAAAAADADKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAYhQAAAAAAAB4AQYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADaFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAEKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA3hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgBDgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAOIUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAAAAAAAwANNP03AAA7Dw== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE22D7.8F461380-- from ROGJAROCH@aol.com Tue Dec 8 20:36:44 1998 Subject: Re: Regional Rodmakers I am in Reno, NV, and always looking for an excuse. A friend of myne is inFall River Mills, CA. Roger Jaroch from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Dec 8 20:48:32 1998 Subject: Re: Re: breakage 7bit Ralph,Art, et al.,Maybe that's one reason to file the ferrule station by hand on your knee,counting the strokes on each corner. :-)Hank-latheless in Va.- W. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Dec 8 21:07:24 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Eastcoast rodmakers I'd be interested in a Cumberland Valley meeting as long as it's not inJultyor August.Hank W. from anglport@con2.com Tue Dec 8 22:27:03 1998 Subject: Re: Smooth On Glue All,Chris' post reminds me to ask about a glue called Aerolite. There's afellow in ME (Monford Platt) who builds canoes out of oak stringers anddacron cloth and uses this. He shrink wraps the cloth over the frame andthe whole becomes like a monocoque racing car body. It is (was) use(d) asan airplane glue ( during the war) and meets all our requirements ( dunnoabout waterproof, but would YOU want to fly in a wood and material planethat wasn't?I'm ecstatically happy with the EPON that Bill Fink almost had to browbeatme into using, but....John Zimny...you out there?Art t 01:39 PM 12/8/98 PST, you wrote:A friend plans to use Smooth On to glue up a rod. He has used this on longbows with good results. Any warnings or praises about this type of glue? Thanks. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from lblan@provide.net Tue Dec 8 22:38:55 1998 Subject: RE: Smooth On Glue I recall reading somewhere that Aerolite was used in the construction ofPTboats... -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 1998 11:26 PM Subject: Re: Smooth On Glue All,Chris' post reminds me to ask about a glue called Aerolite. There's afellow in ME (Monford Platt) who builds canoes out of oak stringers anddacron cloth and uses this. He shrink wraps the cloth over the frame andthe whole becomes like a monocoque racing car body. It is (was) use(d)asan airplane glue ( during the war) and meets all our requirements ( dunnoabout waterproof, but would YOU want to fly in a wood and materialplanethat wasn't?I'm ecstatically happy with the EPON that Bill Fink almost had tobrowbeatme into using, but....John Zimny...you out there?Art t 01:39 PM 12/8/98 PST, you wrote:A friend plans to use Smooth On to glue up a rod. He has used this onlongbows with good results. Any warnings or praises about this type ofglue? Thanks. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Dec 9 04:47:58 1998 Wed, 9 Dec 1998 18:47:48 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Smooth On Glue If this is the same Aerolite I'm thinking of it may not be too good for ferrules as you don't actually mix it as such but put part A on one surface and part B on the second, get everything lined up and clamp it all together. It's great for things like wooden propellers and other hideously complex assemblys because it has no pot life as such but I think I'd sooner mix A&B in a pot for ferrules. Isn't this the stuff used on Concorde instead of rivets? Tony All,Chris' post reminds me to ask about a glue called Aerolite. There's afellow in ME (Monford Platt) who builds canoes out of oak stringers anddacron cloth and uses this. He shrink wraps the cloth over the frame andthe whole becomes like a monocoque racing car body. It is (was) use(d)asan airplane glue ( during the war) and meets all our requirements ( dunnoabout waterproof, but would YOU want to fly in a wood and materialplanethat wasn't?I'm ecstatically happy with the EPON that Bill Fink almost had tobrowbeatme into using, but....John Zimny...you out there?Art t 01:39 PM 12/8/98 PST, you wrote:A friend plans to use Smooth On to glue up a rod. He has used this on longbows with good results. Any warnings or praises about this type of glue? Thanks. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from jpsnbs@erols.com Wed Dec 9 06:44:29 1998 Subject: Eastcoast Rodmakers I'm with Hank. A Cumberland Valley gathering would work for me as well.Not picky about the date.Joe Swam from harry37@epix.net Wed Dec 9 07:38:23 1998 SMTP id IAA05216 Subject: varnish drying to the list-- What technique does anyone use for drying varnish when only varnishingwraps? I have tried turning, but varnish doesn't dry and level like a polymerfinish and leaves a bumpy result. Thoughts, anyone? Thanks Greg from anglport@con2.com Wed Dec 9 08:01:58 1998 Subject: Re: Smooth On Glue Tony,I never meant to use it for ferrules. If that's what the Smooth On wasbeing touted for I misread the post. I meant that the Aerolite might beuseful for cane! I believe it IS the stuff Larry says was used for PTboats. Platt, the man I cited, makes the prettiest little canoes (that youcan see through) with it. His 14 footer weighs in at 25 lbs, if I remembercorrectly. (Lbs, that's pounds for youse Empire types who believe in metric.) I figure if he puts non-glassed watercraft together with it itmust be SOME kind of weather- or water-proof. Does it go together likecontact cement, as you seem to indicate?Art At 06:47 PM 12/9/98 +0800, you wrote:If this is the same Aerolite I'm thinking of it may not be too good for ferrules as you don't actually mix it as such but put part A on one surface and part B on the second, get everything lined up and clamp it all together. It's great for things like wooden propellers and other hideously complex assemblys because it has no pot life as such but I think I'd sooner mix A&B in a pot for ferrules. Isn't this the stuff used on Concorde instead of rivets? Tony All,Chris' post reminds me to ask about a glue called Aerolite. There's afellow in ME (Monford Platt) who builds canoes out of oak stringers anddacron cloth and uses this. He shrink wraps the cloth over the frame andthe whole becomes like a monocoque racing car body. It is (was) use(d)asan airplane glue ( during the war) and meets all our requirements (dunnoabout waterproof, but would YOU want to fly in a wood and materialplanethat wasn't?I'm ecstatically happy with the EPON that Bill Fink almost had tobrowbeatme into using, but....John Zimny...you out there?Art t 01:39 PM 12/8/98 PST, you wrote:A friend plans to use Smooth On to glue up a rod. He has used this on longbows with good results. Any warnings or praises about this typeof glue? Thanks. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from channer@hubwest.com Wed Dec 9 08:08:46 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A4D86C60120; Wed, 09 Dec 1998 07:10:32 MST Subject: Re: varnish drying At 08:37 AM 12/9/98 -0500, you wrote:to the list-- What technique does anyone use for drying varnish when only varnishingwraps? I have tried turning, but varnish doesn't dry and level like a polymerfinish and leaves a bumpy result. Thoughts, anyone? Thanks Greg Greg;It will take 4-6 coats of varnish alone to level out the finish on wraps,shave or sand the bumps and lumps off between coats and the last coatshould turn out smooth. I just put mine in a cabinet to keep the dust offuntil each coat dries. John from ragnarig@integrityol.com Wed Dec 9 08:12:02 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A763207E0100; Wed, 09 Dec 1998 06:21:23 PDT Subject: Re: varnish drying Greg The best way I have found is to apply many thinned coats. It lakes maybe adozen, but they dry really quickly. Once you get it built up good, you cansand any roughness out and do the last coat or two for gloss. And Iwouldn't bother with cheap varnish. If you've got access to a good marinesupply store, buy Epifanes, or at least International 's Clipper. Patienceis the key Davy to the list-- What technique does anyone use for drying varnish when only varnishingwraps? I have tried turning, but varnish doesn't dry and level like a polymerfinish and leaves a bumpy result. Thoughts, anyone? Thanks Greg from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Dec 9 08:17:15 1998 Subject: Re: varnish drying Greg - Assuming you are talking about spar varnish here, I would suggestheating it to about 100 degrees F to improve the flow. If you still haveproblems, try taking a few ultralight leveling strokes on each wrapparallelto the blank. Use the extreme tip of the brush. The stuff does have someleveling capabilities, but it does not flow like urethane. On the positiveside, it won't run either, if it is properly applied, and you should not needto turn it. from gwbarnes@gwi.net Wed Dec 9 10:38:23 1998 Subject: Re: Smooth On Glue Any idea where it can be purchased? George Art Port wrote: All,Chris' post reminds me to ask about a glue called Aerolite. t 01:39 PM 12/8/98 PST, you wrote:A friend plans to use Smooth On to glue up a rod. He has used this onlongbows with good results. Any warnings or praises about this type ofglue? Thanks. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from LUU@NMDHST.CC.NIH.GOV Wed Dec 9 10:50:55 1998 Subject: Re: Eastcoast Rodmakers Cumberland Valley sounds good to me. Any time.Andy I'm with Hank. A Cumberland Valley gathering would work for me as well.Not picky about the date.Joe Swam from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Dec 9 12:53:19 1998 via smap (4.1) 11:02:13 PST Subject: RE: Smooth On glue Here is some more information about Smooth On epoxy. When Darryl the bowyer has tried it on flyrods I'll pass along any feedback from him for those interested in other glue options. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu--------------------------------------- from Darryl: Smooth On is the name of the company, the specific epoxy is named EA-40. (It's just refered to, by me and others in the industry, as Smooth On) It has been around for over 10 years and was made specificly for the bow industry. A host of bowyers use it; Robertson, Kramer Archery, HowardHill Archery, Smooth On is great as far as shear strength, using it to glue bowstogether proves that. It can be cured at room tempurature in about 24hoursbut it is better to post cure at a higher temp. The thing with epoxys isthat they can break down if they are subjected to temperatures higherthanwhat they were cured at. This is why I cure my bows at 150F - 160F for 4to5 hours followed by a slow cool and 24 hour sitting period before handlingthe blank. I plan to cure my fly rod blanks the same way. I may howeverusea slightly lower temp, maybe 120F or 130F at 6 hours for rod blanks. Onething I know, and will suggest to others using epoxy, is to be sure theglued blank is STRAIGHT before it's cured because it will be next toimpossible to straighten any major bends later on. from cattanac@wmis.net Wed Dec 9 13:40:03 1998 (8.8.5/SCO5) with SMTP id TAA07431 for ;Wed, 9 Dec 1998 19:43:29GMT 14:30:31 -0500 Subject: RE: BBQ Bamboo =_NextPart_000_01BE2380.79498540" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE2380.79498540 A Proper Answer Is:You might want to be careful about slow roast bamboo - a hot torch =quickly chars just the outer surface of the bamboo - from others =experience I have seen some problems with lower applied heat cooking the=lignun and doing damage. The example that I have used is that of seering =a steak - you need a hot surface (ample available heat) - a cold (little =available heat) surface with cook through the steak before the surface =browns. That is why I caution folks from using the inexpensive single =tip propane torch - it just doesn't burn enough energy to work properly. An Improper Answer Is:I suspect that there might be serveral ways to bbq bamboo - thinking=that the sauce used becomes the important issue and is usually =regionally driven.------ =_NextPart_000_01BE2380.79498540 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE2380.79498540-- from dryfly@erols.com Wed Dec 9 15:59:31 1998 Subject: Re: Eastcoast Rodmakers Another vote for a Cumberland Valley gathering. ThanksBob ANDREW LUU wrote: Cumberland Valley sounds good to me. Any time.Andy I'm with Hank. A Cumberland Valley gathering would work for me aswell.Not picky about the date.Joe Swam from jonfun@univest.com Wed Dec 9 16:50:55 1998 Subject: Warping CRS After the big discussion about CRS last week I was thumbing through JackHowell's book The Lovely Reed. He touches on this subject in his book andhesays it is better to make the insides of your metal forms flat with anIndiastone. He says if you use a file at this point you can break through the"skin" of the CRS and therefore make it susceptible to warping. I havepurchased and cut my CRS and I'm ready to start making my forms. I havenobackground in milling or metalworking so I'd love to hear peoples thoughtson this issue(Not to bring up an old sore spot, just thought I'd introduce anew way of looking at it). Jonathan Funk winmail.dat Name: winmail.datType: unspecified type (application/octet-stream)Encoding: x-uuencode from cattanac@wmis.net Wed Dec 9 17:00:47 1998 t2.wmis.net (8.8.5/SCO5) with SMTP 23:04:08 GMT Subject: Copy Cat Rip Off of Makers Rod I have just learned that a group not directly linked to bamboo rod makingisgoing to do a "Copy Cat - Rip Off" of the Makers Rod - I feel that this is aviolation of the good faith that used to exist in fly fishing and am postingthis message to let everyone know that I'm dissappointed that these folkscouldn't be creative enough to come up with an original idea and not allowthe Makers Rod to exist for those that created it and made it happen.I'm going to end this post before the anger shows and terms oflifeform that crawels under rocks is used - Perhaps others might expressthere comments ans well Wayne from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Dec 9 18:24:00 1998 0600 Subject: Re: Copy Cat Rip Off of Makers Rod What's their cause? Are they tying to do something for conservation, orforthemselves, or for world peace, or what? Sounds like a little creativethinkingmight benefit this group, whoever they are. Couldn't they do a master's flyplate, or a graphite rod with each guide wrapped by a different custommaker?That would be a real "custom" rod, wouldn't it? Wayne Cattanach wrote: I have just learned that a group not directly linked to bamboo rod makingisgoing to do a "Copy Cat - Rip Off" of the Makers Rod >snipped from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Dec 9 19:07:15 1998 Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:06:57 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Smooth On Glue On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Art Port wrote: Tony,I never meant to use it for ferrules. If that's what the Smooth On wasbeing touted for I misread the post. I meant that the Aerolite might beuseful for cane! I believe it IS the stuff Larry says was used for PTboats. Platt, the man I cited, makes the prettiest little canoes (that youcan see through) with it. His 14 footer weighs in at 25 lbs, if I remembercorrectly. (Lbs, that's pounds for youse Empire types who believe inmetric.) I figure if he puts non-glassed watercraft together with it itmust be SOME kind of weather- or water-proof. Does it go together likecontact cement, as you seem to indicate?Art Sorry, I was writing of Aerolite. The Smoothon should work very well as anything that holds glass and wood together and receives the workoutbows get must be sticky stuff. I have seen bows (one was a Martin longbow) come unstuck when left in a car with the windows wound up. Admitedly it was 40+ cent outside at the time.I wonder what the window of temps between softening and failing is in regard to straightening. Aerolite is used somewhat like contact cement except it doesn't grip straight away. The cure time is like any other epoxy it's just that you can assemble the job over a period of a hrs possibly a day or two if you need without the unclamped surfaces curing so everything is done without a panic on complex jobs. Tony Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from saweiss@flash.net Wed Dec 9 19:20:22 1998 Subject: tapers I just got my copy of the Adams Angling catalog.Two interesting rods advertised that I would love to see the tapers for: 8'3" Brandin model 834-2 df "L" HB 2/2 3 oz #3/4 line. This rod isdescribedas "light and racy". 8'6" R.L. Winston Hollowbuilt 3 3/4 oz #4 line, made for John Tarantino. Both of these rods seem to break the 8-foot barrier for light line and lightweight while presumably keeping good casting quality. Any comments? Anyone have these tapers? Steve from jczimny@dol.net Wed Dec 9 20:18:13 1998 Subject: Re: Smooth On Glue At least one prominent pro rod maker uses it. One has to put the catalystonone surface and the resin mixture on the other. Needless to say, you havetowork damn fast. Very, very good when cured.John Z-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Smooth On Glue All,Chris' post reminds me to ask about a glue called Aerolite. There's afellow in ME (Monford Platt) who builds canoes out of oak stringers anddacron cloth and uses this. He shrink wraps the cloth over the frame andthe whole becomes like a monocoque racing car body. It is (was) use(d) asan airplane glue ( during the war) and meets all our requirements ( dunnoabout waterproof, but would YOU want to fly in a wood and material planethat wasn't?I'm ecstatically happy with the EPON that Bill Fink almost had tobrowbeatme into using, but....John Zimny...you out there?Art t 01:39 PM 12/8/98 PST, you wrote:A friend plans to use Smooth On to glue up a rod. He has used this onlongbows with good results. Any warnings or praises about this type ofglue? Thanks. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from jczimny@dol.net Wed Dec 9 20:18:14 1998 Subject: Re: varnish drying I've been working on this problem for years and have yet to find a solution.John Z.-----Original Message----- Subject: varnish drying to the list-- What technique does anyone use for drying varnish when only varnishingwraps? I have tried turning, but varnish doesn't dry and level like a polymerfinish and leaves a bumpy result. Thoughts, anyone? Thanks Greg from BambooRods@aol.com Wed Dec 9 20:20:33 1998 Subject: Re: Copy Cat Rip Off of Makers Rod In a message dated 12/9/98 8:14:17 PM Eastern Standard Time,cattanac@wmis.netwrites: Ditto,It would appear that greed has kicked in. I would imagine that theylooked around and found something that would have a "kick" of originallityandjumped on it. Perhaps next year, 5 dollar each chocolate bars (sold by theparents no less). So much for respect. I might add, "Copy Cat Rip Off of Makers Rod" withno credit to the original group. Please correct me if anyone called the"coreoriginal" group for advise. That would mean the the Greyrock group wasbeingsupportive. Which as a side note, is something that I am sure they woulddoif asked, these (the greyrock group) are good people and would help ifasked Iam sure. Doug from sshorb@ozip.net Wed Dec 9 20:39:18 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-55785U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Wed, 9 Dec 1998 20:40:11 -0600 Subject: Re: Smooth On Glue John;Smooth-on or Aerolite?Skip from WmFMack@aol.com Wed Dec 9 20:57:14 1998 Subject: Re: Warping CRS The 3/4" CRS I bought was kind of warped from the start. arranged thebars gapbetween them in middle. Then clamped, drilled, used shoulder bolts andsteeldowels. It wasn't satisfactory, because my shoulder bolts holes weren'tperfect and there dowel holes had too much slop, so bars could springunevenlyup and down as they were moved in and out. Also, my attmepts to drill outseveral hole sand come back to align for bigger holes was a mistake. Startedover with another set fo bars. Spent much more care on drilling. Did alldrilling, any enlarging, reaming, and tapping without moving the bar underthedrill press at all. Much more accurate. Discarded the shoulder bolts andused bolts with no shoulder. Put twice as many dowels in (one on eachside ofeach pair of push/pull bolts). Drilled undersized and reamed out to finaldiameter. This time it appears to have worked, though I have some tuneuptodo on the tip side before I'll get the change to do some serious planing andfind out. Best of luck. from lblan@provide.net Wed Dec 9 20:57:50 1998 Subject: RE: Copy Cat Rip Off of Makers Rod It was only a matter of time... if you recall, we discussed this possibilityeven as the original plan was being finalized. The *original* idea was justso good... it's a shame that we didn't even get the second rod in the worksbefore the low-lifes snuck in. I think I'll just let it go at that... Harry; the original, alcohol induced plans included so very many variationson the theme, it would not have been at all hard for someone to dosomethingsimilar, that they could claim as their own. What a shame... -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu CattanachSent: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 6:03 AM Subject: Copy Cat Rip Off of Makers Rod I have just learned that a group not directly linked to bamboorod making isgoing to do a "Copy Cat - Rip Off" of the Makers Rod - I feelthat this is aviolation of the good faith that used to exist in fly fishing andam postingthis message to let everyone know that I'm dissappointed that thesefolkscouldn't be creative enough to come up with an original idea and notallowthe Makers Rod to exist for those that created it and made it happen.I'm going to end this post before the anger shows and terms oflifeform that crawels under rocks is used - Perhaps others mightexpressthere comments ans well Wayne from jpsnbs@erols.com Wed Dec 9 21:10:10 1998 Subject: Off list contact Mr. V (Reel seat maker) I apologize but someone in my house deleted youmessage from cyberspace. If you would be so kind please send again offlist. My apologies, but with six kids anything can happen.Thanks, Joe Swamjpsnbs@erols.com from ragnarig@integrityol.com Wed Dec 9 21:40:00 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A4D4176F00F6; Wed, 09 Dec 1998 19:49:40 PDT Subject: Re: Warping CRS boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01BE23AB.58644A60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BE23AB.58644A60 Reading WmF's letter just reminded me of something that really helped me=when I started making steel forms. It takes a lot of the drudgery out = If you break off a 4 to 6-inch piece of a "vixen" file- looks like this- =((((((((((( and put it on a known flat surface, like a test table, =and glue a block of wood on top with pressure from a heavy weight, you =will have a tool that will take material off like no file you ever saw =(You'll have to be careful you don't take too much off) and won't load =up with chips all the time. Use a machinists square and lots of Dykem =(or magic marker) to make sure you are taking material off the right = You'll want to finish up with a mill file and maybe a stone, but the =first stages of this process really go when you've got a vixen with a =comfortable mounting. You can use it just like you would use a jack =plane when jointing wood for a glue-up: criss-cross alternating with =long cuts etc.- just don't get too enthusiastic and keep squaring and =marking frequently. I thought about this because of the references to =warped stock and inadequate holding fixtures. I can't imagine I'm the =only one on the list who's ever made a rod and all the tooling in a =quonset hut with hand tools. Davy The 3/4" CRS I bought was kind of warped from the start. arranged the =bars small gapbetween them in middle. Then clamped, drilled, used shoulder bolts and =steeldowels. It wasn't satisfactory, because my shoulder bolts holes =weren'tperfect and there dowel holes had too much slop, so bars could spring =unevenlyup and down as they were moved in and out. Also, my attmepts to drill =outseveral hole sand come back to align for bigger holes was a mistake. =Startedover with another set fo bars. Spent much more care on drilling. Did =alldrilling, any enlarging, reaming, and tapping without moving the bar =under thedrill press at all. Much more accurate. Discarded the shoulder bolts =andused bolts with no shoulder. Put twice as many dowels in (one on each =side ofeach pair of push/pull bolts). Drilled undersized and reamed out to =finaldiameter. This time it appears to have worked, though I have some =tuneup todo on the tip side before I'll get the change to do some serious =planing andfind out. Best of luck. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BE23AB.58644A60 Reading WmF's letter just = = takes a lot of the drudgery out of leveling and dressing the mating and = If you break off a 4 to 6-inch = known flat surface, like a test table, and glue a block of wood on top = pressure from a heavy weight, you will have a tool that will take = like no file you ever saw (You'll have to be careful you don't take too = and lots of Dykem (or magic marker) to make sure you are taking material= right places (I mark with little arrows, their heads on the high = You'll want to finish up with a = maybe a stone, but the first stages of this process really go when = a jack plane when jointing wood for a glue-up: criss-cross alternating = cuts etc.- just don't get too enthusiastic and keep squaring and marking = list who's ever made a rod and all the tooling in a quonset hut with = tools. bought = = enlarging, reaming, and tapping without moving the bar under = = ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BE23AB.58644A60-- from RVenneri@aol.com Wed Dec 9 21:48:48 1998 Subject: Re: Off list contact Joe No Problem here is the info.My name is Robert VenneriI am a small manufacturer of hand made nickel reel seats Here are some links to PICS of my stuff online with a price list to. I canget any type of wood you want. I have currently in stock some Birdseyemaple,fiddleback Maple, cocobolo, bocote, lots of stabilized burls, rosewood, andmany more. If you need any thing or would like to place an order give me acall or drop me an email. bobvcocoseat.html Venneri'sCustomComponents bobvsrseat.html http://hometown.aol.com/RVenneri/index.html Best Regards,Bob VRobert Venneri's Custom Components21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882 from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Dec 9 21:56:25 1998 Subject: Re: varnish drying Greg,You're putting the varnish on too thick. Use manylight coats, instead of one or two heavy ones. I put onfive light coats on my silk wraps. Dave leClair from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Dec 9 23:49:08 1998 Thu, 10 Dec 1998 13:48:52 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Smooth On Glue On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Skip Shorb wrote: John;Smooth-on or Aerolite?Skip I's say Smooth-on Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from rclarke@eou.edu Thu Dec 10 00:24:40 1998 Subject: Re: Regional Rodmakers Phil, I am in Eastern Oregon. I know there is a Portland gatheringsometime in the Spring. Did you make it to Ralph's bamboo symposium in Robert Clarke ----------From: Philip Corlis Subject: Re: Regional RodmakersDate: Monday, December 07, 1998 9:24 AM Great idea, regional get togethers sound like a fun way to share ideas. I live in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho in the inland northwest, anyone else nearby? Phil from stpete@netten.net Thu Dec 10 01:45:27 1998 cedar.netten.net(8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id BAA04078 for ;Thu, 10 Dec 1998 01:45:24 Subject: Vixen files Davy and list, I saw St. Wayne with a vixen file and a triangle file in a session hedid on tuning up forms. He had a mill bastard and said that would workalso. I took a pass or two with the vixen file and I agree with you. They are an excellent tool for the purpose of flattening the formsurfaces. St. Wayne uses the entire 12" or so of the file and crisscrosses the filing angle each pass, keeping the file as parallel withthe forms as possible but still managing to hang one end off the edge ofone side of the form and the other end hanging over the edge of theother side. I have looked everywhere in Memphis, TN for a vixen file. No autosupply nor tool supply in town has one in the catalog, nor has any deskhelp that I have asked even known what the &(^%!! I was talking about.(AutoZone is headquartered here - what does that say about them?) MyMSC catalog does not list that type of file (that's almost 3000 pages!) If anyone has a source or suggestion for locating a vixen file I wouldcertainly appreciate it. So would other list members, I'm sure. Thanks,Rick C. from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Dec 10 01:56:08 1998 (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: BBQ Bamboo So bamboo is best Cajun style? ;^) George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: BBQ Bamboo A Proper Answer Is:You might want to be careful about slow roast bamboo - a hot torchquicklychars just the outer surface of the bamboo - from others experience I haveseen some problems with lower applied heat cooking the lignun anddoingdamage. The example that I have used is that of seering a steak - youneed ahot surface (ample available heat) - a cold (little available heat) surfacewith cook through the steak before the surface browns. That is why Icautionfolks from using the inexpensive single tip propane torch - it just doesn'tburn enough energy to work properly. An Improper Answer Is:I suspect that there might be serveral ways to bbq bamboo - thinking thatthe sauce used becomes the important issue and is usually regionallydriven. from channer@hubwest.com Thu Dec 10 02:16:06 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A3AFDAF0110; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 01:17:51 MST Subject: Epon Guys;Has anybody had any success thinning Epon? I have asked Shell if there is athinner for it, but so far I have not recieved any response. Thanks for anyinformation. John from RVenneri@aol.com Thu Dec 10 04:40:11 1998 Subject: Re: Off list contact List,My humblest apologies my last post should have went off list. I am sorry.Iwish I could disable that damn reply button. once again sorry guys. Best Regards,Bob V from lblan@provide.net Thu Dec 10 04:41:44 1998 Subject: RE: Vixen files Rick; the common name for a vixen file is a body file. Try asking for one ofthose. -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, December 10, 1998 2:41 AM Subject: Vixen files Davy and list, I saw St. Wayne with a vixen file and a triangle file in a session hedid on tuning up forms. He had a mill bastard and said that would workalso. I took a pass or two with the vixen file and I agree with you.They are an excellent tool for the purpose of flattening the formsurfaces. St. Wayne uses the entire 12" or so of the file and crisscrosses the filing angle each pass, keeping the file as parallel withthe forms as possible but still managing to hang one end off the edge ofone side of the form and the other end hanging over the edge of theother side. I have looked everywhere in Memphis, TN for a vixen file. No autosupply nor tool supply in town has one in the catalog, nor has any deskhelp that I have asked even known what the &(^%!! I was talking about.(AutoZone is headquartered here - what does that say about them?) MyMSC catalog does not list that type of file (that's almost 3000 pages!) If anyone has a source or suggestion for locating a vixen file I wouldcertainly appreciate it. So would other list members, I'm sure. Thanks,Rick C. from RMargiotta@aol.com Thu Dec 10 06:04:23 1998 Subject: 5-strip taper(s) sought To All: Does anyone have a taper for a 5-strip rod in the 7'6" to 8'0" range for a 5weight line? Herter lists a few, including some supposedly given to himbyCrompton. Also, Kreider lists a 7'6" taper. None of these specify linesize,though. Any experience with these or other tapers would be appreciated.Thanks in advance. --Rich from maxs@geocities.co.jp Thu Dec 10 07:49:15 1998 mail.geocities.co.jp(8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id WAA24714 for; Thu, 10Dec 1998 22:49:10 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: varnish drying Greg Kuntz wrote: to the list-- What technique does anyone use for drying varnish when only varnishingwraps? I have tried turning, but varnish doesn't dry and level like a polymerfinish and leaves a bumpy result. Thoughts, anyone? Thanks Greg Hi Greg, Varnish on the wrap happens very often in my case when finishing rods byoil finish, urushi, etc.. I am turning the rod on the motor and brush thinned polyurethane onwraps and brow a weak heat of my hair drier for a while. The surface ofpolyurethane will be harden in 10 to 15 minutes (but inside of the coatis still soft).After leaving it for a day, I will try next coat. After repeatingseveraltimes, when the surface does not have a bump of thread or bubble, I willcoatthinned poly as a last one. It will show very smooth surface on thewrap. The bump of bubbles etc is flattened by sand paper or fine filebefore the last one or two coats. Someone is using a cut piece of name card to place a flat coat on wrapsinstead of using a brush, I heard. In this case, he is using un-thinned poly. Max-- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from maxs@geocities.co.jp Thu Dec 10 07:50:39 1998 mail.geocities.co.jp(8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id WAA26577 for; Thu, 10Dec 1998 22:50:35 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Splitting gadget Richard Nantel wrote: Here's something to kick start the list which has been exceeding slow In two different books, I've seen pictures of a splitting gadget thatseems to make splitting a breeze. It is a cylinder with many bladesradiating out at equal angles to each other. Looked at from the top,it resembles a sun with many radiating rays. You place the cylinder inthe tip of the culm and hammer it down with a mallet. The culm splitsperfectly into many equal strips. Very cool and would be a greatgadget for someone on the list to make and sell. Richard Hi Richard, I also have this gadget for splitting a cane into 6, 4, 8 respectively.It is really nice tools when you have a completely round cane. But as I posted before under the "Mistery at Midnight", most of the canetend to have natural splits because of dried air. Sometimes a canearea is not a complete circle. In such case, there is a littleincovenience to use this gadget.It is a perfect combination for a completely round cane to split withthis six strip gadget and thento use my cane splitter. My cane splitter works perfect when splittingthe one-sixth strips into its half and further half, totally into 24. Just a comment. Max-- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from Canerods@aol.com Thu Dec 10 08:19:16 1998 Subject: Re: Copy Cat Rip Off of Makers Rod In a message dated 12/9/98 5:14:17 PM Pacific Standard Time,cattanac@wmis.netwrites: I have just learned that a group not directly linked to bamboo rod makingisgoing to do a "Copy Cat - Rip Off" of the Makers Rod - I feel that this isaviolation of the good faith that used to exist in fly fishing and ampostingthis message to let everyone know that I'm dissappointed that thesefolkscouldn't be creative enough to come up with an original idea and notallowthe Makers Rod to exist for those that created it and made it happen.I'm going to end this post before the anger shows and terms oflifeform that crawels under rocks is used - Perhaps others mightexpressthere comments ans well Wayne Wayne, What are they making it from - an old H-I nine footer? Maybe nobodywillbuy their f'ing raffle tickets and they'll end up eating the cost of the rod! One used to be able to shake hands and trust that a deal was done, now youneed lawyers for everything and you can't trust anyone even after signing50pages of legal BS. Don Burns from Fallcreek9@aol.com Thu Dec 10 08:48:31 1998 Subject: Re: Epon In a message dated 12/10/98 2:19:50 AM Central Standard Time,channer@hubwest.com writes: John: A variation of thinning is to warm it slightly. I got a bit slow on arod being glued up, and the Epon, which was already thick after mixing,beganto thicken too much. Because the rod was a proto casting rod and I wasn'ttooconcerned about the outcome, I tried a bit of judicious use of the heat gunonthe plastic cup holding the epoxy. It worked just fine. The Epon thinnedoutquite nicely and applied well. The blank turned out ok and has beenotherwisenormal since. It straightened ok using the normal low heat forstraighteningwith Epon. Do not know how many times that procedure can be used with amixedpot of this epoxy. Logic says it will cause it to kick quicker. The customer service reps at Nyatex advised me that their epoxy (used bybamboo rodmakers) can be thinned with laquer thinner. Have tried it anditworked ok. Not implying it will work with Epon, but experimentationmight bein order. Best Regards,Richard from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Thu Dec 10 08:52:59 1998 0500 Subject: RE: Copy Cat Rip Off of Makers Rod Who is this group and what exactly is it they're trying to do? I'm notsure I understand how you can do a "Makers Rod" without any rod makers! Seth Steinzor -----Original Message-----From: Canerods@aol.com [SMTP:Canerods@aol.com]Sent: Thursday, December 10, 1998 9:16 AM Subject: Re: Copy Cat Rip Off of Makers Rod In a message dated 12/9/98 5:14:17 PM Pacific Standard Time,cattanac@wmis.netwrites: I have just learned that a group not directly linked to bamboo rodmaking isgoing to do a "Copy Cat - Rip Off" of the Makers Rod - I feel thatthis isaviolation of the good faith that used to exist in fly fishing from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Dec 10 09:05:53 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Epon John,All epoxies can be cut with laquer thinner. I am not familiar with Epon soany thing I say must be taken with that in mind. I don't know as to whatwould happen to the holding power of thinned epon but my guess would beif notover done in the thinning you should be OK. I have used many epoxies in myday for different things and laquer thinner was what we always used tothinand clean up with. Manufacturers recommendations here.Bret from jfreeman@cyberport.com Thu Dec 10 09:15:08 1998 Subject: Looking for Tim Sharpe Gents, Sorry to veer from rodmaking, but does anyone have an e-mail address forTim Sharpe of Bozeman, MT? If I remember right, Ralph Moon may knowTim,but I don't have Ralph's address. Thanks for the help. Jim Freeman from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Dec 10 10:16:17 1998 0600 Subject: Re: Vixen files Larry, Rick;I, too, have tried everywhere I can think of in my search for a vixen(body)file. I did find some old time body shop guys who knew what it was. NAPAhasit in their catalog, but not their warehouse. They list it as "obsolete".I've got another idea that some of you might have information about. Thosewho work with horses, putting on horseshoes ( I forgot the technicalname) use afile that looks just like the vixen file for trimming horse's hooves. Do youthink this might be the same thing? Does anyone know if it would work? Theyare rather expensive, so I would hate to buy one just to try it out. Anysuggestions?Harry Boyd(fbcwin@fsbnet.com) Larry Blan wrote: Rick; the common name for a vixen file is a body file. Try asking for oneofthose. -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu CrenshawSent: Thursday, December 10, 1998 2:41 AM Subject: Vixen files Davy and list, I saw St. Wayne with a vixen file and a triangle file in a session hedid on tuning up forms. He had a mill bastard and said that would workalso. I took a pass or two with the vixen file and I agree with you.They are an excellent tool for the purpose of flattening the formsurfaces. St. Wayne uses the entire 12" or so of the file and crisscrosses the filing angle each pass, keeping the file as parallel withthe forms as possible but still managing to hang one end off the edge ofone side of the form and the other end hanging over the edge of theother side. I have looked everywhere in Memphis, TN for a vixen file. No autosupply nor tool supply in town has one in the catalog, nor has any deskhelp that I have asked even known what the &(^%!! I was talking about.(AutoZone is headquartered here - what does that say about them?) MyMSC catalog does not list that type of file (that's almost 3000 pages!) If anyone has a source or suggestion for locating a vixen file I wouldcertainly appreciate it. So would other list members, I'm sure. Thanks,Rick C. from FlyTyr@southshore.com Thu Dec 10 10:39:27 1998 natco.southshore.com(8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA01370 for ;Thu, 10 Dec 1998 10:40:55-0600 Subject: Re: Vixen files Rick,I have a friend that just bought some. Would you like for me to send your Email address to him.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Rick Crenshaw wrote: Davy and list, I saw St. Wayne with a vixen file and a triangle file in a session hedid on tuning up forms. He had a mill bastard and said that would workalso. I took a pass or two with the vixen file and I agree with you.They are an excellent tool for the purpose of flattening the formsurfaces. St. Wayne uses the entire 12" or so of the file and crisscrosses the filing angle each pass, keeping the file as parallel withthe forms as possible but still managing to hang one end off the edge ofone side of the form and the other end hanging over the edge of theother side. I have looked everywhere in Memphis, TN for a vixen file. No autosupply nor tool supply in town has one in the catalog, nor has any deskhelp that I have asked even known what the &(^%!! I was talking about.(AutoZone is headquartered here - what does that say about them?) MyMSC catalog does not list that type of file (that's almost 3000 pages!) If anyone has a source or suggestion for locating a vixen file I wouldcertainly appreciate it. So would other list members, I'm sure. Thanks,Rick C. from FlyTyr@southshore.com Thu Dec 10 10:41:14 1998 natco.southshore.com(8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA01412 for ;Thu, 10 Dec 1998 10:42:36-0600 Subject: Re: Vixen files It is also called a Horseshoe File.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Harry Boyd wrote: Larry, Rick;I, too, have tried everywhere I can think of in my search for a vixen(body)file. I did find some old time body shop guys who knew what it was. NAPA hasit in their catalog, but not their warehouse. They list it as "obsolete".I've got another idea that some of you might have information about. Thosewho work with horses, putting on horseshoes ( I forgot the technicalname) use afile that looks just like the vixen file for trimming horse's hooves. Doyouthink this might be the same thing? Does anyone know if it would work? Theyare rather expensive, so I would hate to buy one just to try it out. Anysuggestions?Harry Boyd(fbcwin@fsbnet.com) Larry Blan wrote: Rick; the common name for a vixen file is a body file. Try asking forone ofthose. -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu CrenshawSent: Thursday, December 10, 1998 2:41 AM Subject: Vixen files Davy and list, I saw St. Wayne with a vixen file and a triangle file in a session hedid on tuning up forms. He had a mill bastard and said that wouldworkalso. I took a pass or two with the vixen file and I agree with you.They are an excellent tool for the purpose of flattening the formsurfaces. St. Wayne uses the entire 12" or so of the file and crisscrosses the filing angle each pass, keeping the file as parallel withthe forms as possible but still managing to hang one end off the edgeofone side of the form and the other end hanging over the edge of theother side. I have looked everywhere in Memphis, TN for a vixen file. No autosupply nor tool supply in town has one in the catalog, nor has any deskhelp that I have asked even known what the &(^%!! I was talking about.(AutoZone is headquartered here - what does that say about them?) MyMSC catalog does not list that type of file (that's almost 3000 pages!) If anyone has a source or suggestion for locating a vixen file I wouldcertainly appreciate it. So would other list members, I'm sure. Thanks,Rick C. from cattanac@wmis.net Thu Dec 10 10:53:56 1998 (8.8.5/SCO5) with SMTP id QAA22910 for ;Thu, 10 Dec 1998 16:57:25GMT 11:44:26 -0500 Subject: RE: Copy Cat Rip Off of Makers Rod =_NextPart_000_01BE2432.70377540" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE2432.70377540 It's unfortunate that I respond to situations with knee-jerk reaction.=Bad comments never solve issues - perhaps someday I'll learn that - My =apologies to those they were directed towards and ask that this thread =be dropped as of now Wayne------ =_NextPart_000_01BE2432.70377540 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE2432.70377540-- from edcarlsen@webtv.net Thu Dec 10 11:23:17 1998 105.iap.bryant.webtv.net 112.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id 112.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) ETAsAhQcpTI3IpDQ/4EaOBlHqHi1g9QlbwIUYT6bmfn8Y5P7iUmoSmP4XbyEV5U= Subject: Poly Varnish Have found in the archives that Pratt & Lambert Var-Mor was a favorite.Couldn't find Var-Mor and have been told that Sherwin Williams boughtout that company in 1996 and it is no longer available. What is thepoly varnish of choice? Have tried Helmsman on one of the boats that Ibuild but found that it darkens with exposure. Ed from briansr@point-net.com Thu Dec 10 11:31:16 1998 0000 Subject: ruler Hi FolksOne more gadget I found handy, is an engineer's rule graduated in16ths,32nds, 64ths, and most importantly 100ths.Mine was 20in long & I cut itto14inModel # L610 It's not really a MUST have, but I found it handy to use whensplitting( It keeps my Vernier safely out of the way!!!) 12$ dropped on thefloor or stratched is a lot easier on the heart than doing the same to a140$ caliper!Cheers Brian from KDLoup@aol.com Thu Dec 10 12:48:40 1998 Subject: Re: Vixen files List,If anyone has a source for a vixen file, let me know. I have spoken to afew suppliers who carried the file in the past, but not since the arrival ofbondo. Apparently, it was used for filing solder on automobile body panels(?). On Harry's recommendation, I checked with a local feed store. However,the horse hoof file they carried looked like a large mill file. Kurt Loup from ragnarig@integrityol.com Thu Dec 10 13:14:24 1998 (SMTPD32-4.06) id AA1F3B5B010A; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 10:59:43 PDT Subject: Re: Vixen files Harry I'll get you one. Stand by... Davy -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Vixen files Larry, Rick;I, too, have tried everywhere I can think of in my search for a vixen(body)file. I did find some old time body shop guys who knew what it was. NAPAhasit in their catalog, but not their warehouse. They list it as "obsolete".I've got another idea that some of you might have information about.Thosewho work with horses, putting on horseshoes ( I forgot the technicalname)use afile that looks just like the vixen file for trimming horse's hooves. Doyouthink this might be the same thing? Does anyone know if it would work?Theyare rather expensive, so I would hate to buy one just to try it out. Anysuggestions?Harry Boyd(fbcwin@fsbnet.com) Larry Blan wrote: Rick; the common name for a vixen file is a body file. Try asking for oneofthose. -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu CrenshawSent: Thursday, December 10, 1998 2:41 AM Subject: Vixen files Davy and list, I saw St. Wayne with a vixen file and a triangle file in a session hedid on tuning up forms. He had a mill bastard and said that wouldworkalso. I took a pass or two with the vixen file and I agree with you.They are an excellent tool for the purpose of flattening the formsurfaces. St. Wayne uses the entire 12" or so of the file and crisscrosses the filing angle each pass, keeping the file as parallel withthe forms as possible but still managing to hang one end off the edgeofone side of the form and the other end hanging over the edge of theother side. I have looked everywhere in Memphis, TN for a vixen file. No autosupply nor tool supply in town has one in the catalog, nor has any deskhelp that I have asked even known what the &(^%!! I was talking about.(AutoZone is headquartered here - what does that say about them?) MyMSC catalog does not list that type of file (that's almost 3000 pages!) If anyone has a source or suggestion for locating a vixen file I wouldcertainly appreciate it. So would other list members, I'm sure. Thanks,Rick C. from saweiss@flash.net Thu Dec 10 13:24:03 1998 Subject: Re: Vixen files Rick; the common name for a vixen file is a body file. Try asking for oneofthose. Larry is correct. These files were designed to contour auto body repairsthat are made with lead solder, the old fashioned way.Steve from sshorb@ozip.net Thu Dec 10 13:28:52 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-55785U1000L100S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Thu, 10 Dec 1998 12:55:52 -0600 Subject: Re: Vixen files Mcmaster-Carr has them listed as curved tooth files, cost about $20 for10", $24 for 12", and $28 for 14" plus shipping, etc, on their web site;www.mcmaster.com, look in the sub heading "parts treating, abrasives,and finishing" then under american pattern files, page 3. They also havesome phone numbers and address' in their "about us" page. This is theonly place I've been able to find them at so far. Skipps: Do I have to add statement 'usual disclaimers"? from stpete@netten.net Thu Dec 10 13:46:07 1998 cedar.netten.net(8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA28219 for ;Thu, 10 Dec 1998 13:46:04 Subject: Re: Vixen files Tony Spezio wrote: Rick,I have a friend that just bought some. Would you like for me to send yourEmail address to him.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tony, that would be super! I really appreciate it. BTW, I've got one more rod under my belt for my demo in March! (ADriggs!) Rick Crenshaw from jkallo@midwest.net Thu Dec 10 13:58:41 1998 Subject: Re: Vixen files I am way snowed under right now with finals and all, but I'm nearlypositive that the Eastwood auto restoration company sells these--theysellbody solder stuff. I think their address is http://www.eastwood.com Hope this helps. best,Joe At 12:55 PM 12/10/98 -0600, you wrote:Mcmaster-Carr has them listed as curved tooth files, cost about $20 for10", $24 for 12", and $28 for 14" plus shipping, etc, on their web site;www.mcmaster.com, look in the sub heading "parts treating, abrasives,and finishing" then under american pattern files, page 3. They also havesome phone numbers and address' in their "about us" page. This is theonly place I've been able to find them at so far. Skipps: Do I have to add statement 'usual disclaimers"? Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from jwt4639@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Thu Dec 10 14:12:33 1998 with ESMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 15:09:57 EST Subject: Re: Vixen files Guy's and Gal's 'Farrier'.... the person who shoes horses and probably has those 'vixan' filesyouare looking for Trivia for the day. Jim Tefft from jkallo@midwest.net Thu Dec 10 14:13:05 1998 Subject: Re: Vixen files Okay, while taking a coffee break I discovered that wasn't the link. Sorryabout that. I also did a half-hearted search and couldn't find anything. Iknow they have a web page, but I tossed all my catalogs when I recentlymoved. I post later if I find anything. Joe At 01:55 PM 12/10/98 -0600, you wrote: I am way snowed under right now with finals and all, but I'm nearlypositive that the Eastwood auto restoration company sells these--theysellbody solder stuff. I think their address is http://www.eastwood.com Hope this helps. best,Joe At 12:55 PM 12/10/98 -0600, you wrote:Mcmaster-Carr has them listed as curved tooth files, cost about $20 for10", $24 for 12", and $28 for 14" plus shipping, etc, on their web site;www.mcmaster.com, look in the sub heading "parts treating, abrasives,and finishing" then under american pattern files, page 3. They also havesome phone numbers and address' in their "about us" page. This is theonly place I've been able to find them at so far. Skipps: Do I have to add statement 'usual disclaimers"? Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from jkallo@midwest.net Thu Dec 10 15:13:38 1998 Subject: Eastwood Co. Skip was nice enough to find the address for Eastwood: http://www.eastwoodco.com They have two types of body files and several types of wooden handles forthem. The web site is pretty slim on description, but I remember from thecatalog that these were supposed to be pretty nice tools made in England.Using lead and files to do body work is a pretty antique method, so peoplewho go through the trouble of doing it probably want nice implements forthe process. Best, Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from sjstill@iquest.net Thu Dec 10 16:07:29 1998 0000 (209.43.48.147) Subject: Record 060 1/2 Hi All, have Record 060 1/2 planes on sale right now for 39.99. Regular 54.99.Might only be good at the retail stores. Usual disclaimers apply! Steve Steve and Julie StillabowerIndianapolis, IN ICQ 19299644 from FlyTyr@southshore.com Thu Dec 10 16:56:16 1998 (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP 16:57:44 -0600 Subject: Re: Vixen files Snap On also has them at 46.00 ea.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Skip Shorb wrote: Mcmaster-Carr has them listed as curved tooth files, cost about $20 for10", $24 for 12", and $28 for 14" plus shipping, etc, on their web site;www.mcmaster.com, look in the sub heading "parts treating, abrasives,and finishing" then under american pattern files, page 3. They also havesome phone numbers and address' in their "about us" page. This is theonly place I've been able to find them at so far. Skipps: Do I have to add statement 'usual disclaimers"? from FlyTyr@southshore.com Thu Dec 10 16:57:41 1998 (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP 16:59:10 -0600 Subject: Re: Vixen files Skip Has posted it.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Rick Crenshaw wrote: Tony Spezio wrote: Rick,I have a friend that just bought some. Would you like for me to sendyour Email address to him.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tony, that would be super! I really appreciate it. BTW, I've got one more rod under my belt for my demo in March! (ADriggs!) Rick Crenshaw from FlyTyr@southshore.com Thu Dec 10 17:00:24 1998 (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP 17:01:53 -0600 Subject: Re: Vixen files The same files are also used to true up the edges of snow skies. Therycome in aplastic holder and are a little smaller..Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Jim Tefft wrote: Guy's and Gal's 'Farrier'.... the person who shoes horses and probably has those 'vixan'files youare looking for Trivia for the day. Jim Tefft from wbinn@michiana.org Thu Dec 10 17:06:52 1998 freenet.michiana.org (8.8.2/8.7.3(CICNet)) with ESMTP id SAA21392 for Subject: Re: Poly Varnish Ed,I just bought some Varmor at a local Pratt & Lambert paint store. WhileSherwin Williams may have bought them P & L paints and products arestillavailable, at least here in the midwest. Varmor, the gloss version is theirproduct R-10, is a fine product that works well for cane rods, but it'sfairly expensive stuff.Winston from jerryy@webtv.net Thu Dec 10 18:38:03 1998 105.iap.bryant.webtv.net 112.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id 112.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) ETAtAhQNbXRIykMsjzydI2v8rDdaBbt3CQIVALokvVbMZGX8JbPqBhx3ihA+Lnge Subject: Re: Poly Varnish Dec 1998 07:26:50 -0600 --WebTV-Mail-1526833485-186 Thanks for your come back. Our local P&L dealer told me he can't getP&L products anymore. Checked the web and they shut down the P&L website. Dealer had two quarts that were so old the labels had changedcolor. Ed --WebTV-Mail-1526833485-186 postoffice-112.iap.bryant.webtv.net; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 15:18:14 mailsorter-101.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.graham.14Aug97) with wugate.wustl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) RAA14937 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 SAA21392 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 Subject: Re: Poly Varnish Ed,I just bought some Varmor at a local Pratt & Lambert paint store. WhileSherwin Williams may have bought them P & L paints and products arestillavailable, at least here in the midwest. Varmor, the gloss version is theirproduct R-10, is a fine product that works well for cane rods, but it'sfairly expensive stuff.Winston --WebTV-Mail-1526833485-186-- from chris@artistree.com Thu Dec 10 19:52:33 1998 Subject: Re: Poly Varnish Last year I talked with the tech guys at Pratt & Lambert about theirvarious finishes. The following info is from their supplied data sheets: 1) Varmor Clear Urethane Finish (R10, R11): Available in Clear.Recommended for interior use only on wood surfaces such as floors,paneling, doors and trim. 2) 38 Clear Finish (H24, H17, H39): Available in Clear Gloss, Satin orDull. Recommended for interior wood paneling, doors, trim, window sills(semi- exposed), church pews and cabinets. 3) Vitralite UVA Spar Varnish (R7): Available in Clear. Recommended forexterior doors, trim garage doors and boats. Also surfaces of wood andcopper. (Expensive but really nice stuff) They also manufacture the FABULON line of Polyurethane finishes. Thisline is tends to be used by builders of malls, schools (gym floors) andso on. 4) Fabulon Polyurethane Heavy Duty (P-5310, P-5311): Available in Satinand High Gloss. Solvent based. 5) Fabulon Crystal (#1274, #1275): Available in Gloss or Satin. Waterborne polyurethane acrylic. One thing you will notice is that they do not make a Polyurethane forexterior use (with UVA inhibitors). -- Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from stuart.tod@virgin.net Thu Dec 10 20:19:11 1998 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-0U10L2S100) with SMTP id AAA6165 +0000 Subject: Splitting gadget I looked for the Hida Tool page ,found about 20 pages, no mention of asplitting tool. Does it have a different name or am I looking in thewrong place? from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Dec 10 20:38:26 1998 Subject: Re: varnish drying Greg,I've been using polyurethane for years on a rotisserie (stolen fromSWMBOafter the heating element burned out) with no problems as long as I did 3coats.Regards, Hank W. from FlyTyr@southshore.com Thu Dec 10 20:39:14 1998 natco.southshore.com(8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA18093 for ;Thu, 10 Dec 1998 20:40:42-0600 Subject: Re: Vixen Filwe was Warping CRS 383B513165A7C3C27D52AE7C" --------------383B513165A7C3C27D52AE7C A handle for the Vixen file.Take a piece of 2x4 and cut a dado the width on the file down thecenter. The length as long as the file. In the middle of the dado,( top)cut a kerf on the dado side about 1/2 the depth of the remaining 2 x 4. Drill several holes that will go through the 2x4 at 90 degrees in themiddle of the kerf. These holes will accommodate 8x32 screws and nutsthat will squeeze the kerf together, clamping the file in the slot(dado) made for the file. The width of 2x4 can be cut the fit the handbefore cutting the dado. Counter bore the holes so the nuts and screwheads are recessed. This will let you rotate the sides of the file whenone side gets dull.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com. David wrote: Reading WmF's letter just reminded me of something that reallyhelped me when I started making steel forms. It takes a lot of thedrudgery out of leveling and dressing the mating and working surfacesIf you break off a 4 to 6-inch piece of a "vixen" file- looks likethis- > ((((((((((( and put it on a known flat surface, like a testtable, and glue a block of wood on top with pressure from a heavyweight, you will have a tool that will take material off like no fileyou ever saw (You'll have to be careful you don't take too much off)and won't load up with chips all the time. Use a machinists squareand lots of Dykem (or magic marker) to make sure you are takingmaterial off the right places (I mark with little arrows, their headson the high side). You'll want to finish up with a mill file and maybea stone, but the first stages of this process really go when you'vegot a vixen with a comfortable mounting. You can use it just like youwould use a jack plane when jointing wood for a glue-up: criss-crossalternating with long cuts etc.- just don't get too enthusiastic and --------------383B513165A7C3C27D52AE7C A handle for the Vixen file.Take a piece of 2x4 and cut a dado the width on the file down thecenter.The length as long as the file. In the middle of the dado,( top) cut a . Drill several holes that will go through the 2x4 at 90 degrees in themiddle of the kerf. These holes will accommodate 8x32 screws and nutsthatwill squeeze the kerf together, clamping the file in the slot (dado) made cutting the dado. Counter bore the holes so the nuts and screw heads arerecessed. This will let you rotate the sides of the file when one sidegets dull. David wrote: letter just reminded me of something that really helped me when I started and dressing the mating and working surfaces Ifyou break off a 4 to 6-inch piece of a "vixen" file- looks like this- > and glue a block of wood on top with pressure from a heavy weight, youwill have a tool that will take material off like no file you ever saw(You'll have to be careful you don't take too much off) and won't load Dykem(or magic marker) to make sure you are taking material off the rightplaces(I mark with little arrows, their heads on the high side).You'll want to finish up with a millfileand maybe a stone, but the first stages of this process really go when like you would use a jack plane when jointing wood for a glue-up: criss- crossalternating with long cuts etc.- just don't get too enthusiasticand