from jfoster@gte.net Fri Jan 1 00:03:00 1999 Subject: Re: Payne 101 mac-creator="4D4F5353" Reed indeed jerry from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Jan 1 00:11:41 1999 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: dip tube motors from the elephant's graveyard I've been a way a few days so anybody who's sent me mail I haven't ignoredyou.Sourounded with old PC junk as I am at work I'm always looking forsomething to do with it all. I've made a dip tube motor from an oldprinter but something simpler would be the power supply from an oldmachine.All the electrics are there, just deep 6 the fan and replace it with apully or gears. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from MICK@welfen-netz.com Fri Jan 1 05:55:55 1999 [195.143.56.1] with SMTP(MDaemon.v2.7.SP4.R) for ; Fri, 01 Jan1999 12:53:59 +0100 "RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Lifespan of a Bamboo rod Rick,I fish a rod that I build in '85 and it still works with a performance a lotof plastik rods don't have especially on bigger trouts. Since the rod didn'thave any refinish it looks a bit shaggy but nevertheless that doesn't affektthe action. (para/progressive)regardsMichael Rick Crenshaw wrote: List, I'll pose a question that relates somewhat to the 'classic' tapersdiscussion. My Question is: How much change is there over time in the resiliency and castingperformance of a bamboo rod? Does it change noticeably over time? Whatis the given peak lifespan of a bamboo rod? Can one 'work' a rod todeath? Assume that finishing treatments are equal and that the rods werehandled and stored properly. Rick from dan_cooney@ibm.net Fri Jan 1 08:00:26 1999 (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA24320; Fri, 1 Jan 1999 14:00:22 GMT Subject: Re: Another Subject Richard, I am very happy for your wife and you. I know exactly how you feel. Atthis time last year, I had just been told that I had prostate cancer. LikeShirl, I was very fortunate that the cancer had not spread and the surgery was successful. The "PSA" blood test saved my life. The test allowed the cancer to be detected in its early stages. Now I try to convey the word to others,as youand your wife have elected to do. All men (you, family members,friends) past 40 AND those who have a family history of prostate cancer shoulddiscuss the need for annual PSA testing with their physician. If the doctor saysthat you should be tested -- make sure that you get tested ANNUALLY. Had IskippedPSA testing last year, the cancer would probably have spread to otherparts ofmy body by now. Early detection is indeed key. Regards,Dan Cooney Fallcreek9@aol.com wrote: List: The following is told because we think it is important enough. My wife recently had a mammogram that warranted a biopsy. The biopsywarranted a single mastectomy. The surgery was successfullyperformed Dec21st, and on the 23d we got the wonderful news that Shirl is cancer freeandcured with no further treatment necessary. The reason for the goodnews isthat the cancer was caught early in it's development and had not begunanoutward march. The reason this is being brought to everyone's attention is to encourageanyand all to insure that no loved one goes without a proper detectionroutine.Our hanging personal family business out on the internet line is a bitscary,but Shirl and I wanted everyone to know by our example that earlydetection isimportant and effective. Happy New Year to All,Richard Tyree- please! Early detection is the key. from dmcfall@ODYSSEE.NET Fri Jan 1 09:26:45 1999 Subject: Anodizing aluminium Is there a way to chemically change the color of aluminum. I have analuminum winding check that I wish to change to a dull black. I seem torecall that this may be done by putting it in a bath of sodium or potassiumhydroxide - does anyone have any ideas on this other than it could bedangerous? Thankand Happy New Year. The way to a fisherman's heart is through his fly. Dave McFalldmcfall@odyssee.net from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Jan 1 09:29:38 1999 fbcwin@fsbnet.com, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: RE: equal triangles Seth and Harry,If you put the larger than 60 deg. side down in the form you don't getwobble,especially if you use the deepest part of the form that the stripwillallow and still be able to cant the plane. Admittedly I've thrown away afewstrips and kept some I shouldn't but generally i've been able to correctmostof the off center apices. Just my $.02Regards,Hank W. from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Jan 1 09:30:09 1999 Subject: Re: Dip Tank Motor Quality turntables are valuable. I would check to see that your turntable isnot onthe collector list before you junk it to build a dip tank.I still enjoy the the superior sound of vinyl and would not dream ofjunking my my 2decks.T.Ackland reed wrote: Art,Nah, nothing with hysterisis. I can't even do the Lambada.My procedure was simplicity itself (look to the source). I figured thattheturntable already had most of the components I wanted, well mountedand insulated;so I simply removed the bottom exposing the wiring and extended theline on thepressure switch that indicates whether the arm is locked down. Then Iglued a 1"pulley to the shaft of the turntable and tipped it on its side. I built apinefoursided frame and positioned a 6" pulley on a half inch shaft above the1"pulley. The line to the rod is fastened to this shaft and passes throughtwo tinybrass pulleys hanging from cup hooks in the joists above. I can move thewholething in a minute by taking the pulleys off the cup hooks and picking upthe pineframe.My calculations give me a 6" per minute pull rate, but I haven't timedit. Mynext step will be positioning the pressure switch so that somthingclamped on theline can trigger it to the off position when the pull is complete. Wait aminute,I just remembered, I have an old programmable XR10 which I can set toprovidepower to the turntable, cutting power for a minute at predefinedintervals toallow the snakes to drip. It may take me several hours to properlyprogram foreach rod section...Best regards,Reed Art Port wrote: Reed,I thought those motors went a mile a minute. How do you slow it downenoughto pull 2" a minute? Or are you talking about some hysterisissynchronousdirect drive or something?Art from rmoon@ida.net Fri Jan 1 10:04:17 1999 Subject: Re: Anodizing aluminium McFall David wrote: Is there a way to chemically change the color of aluminum. I have analuminum winding check that I wish to change to a dull black. I seem torecall that this may be done by putting it in a bath of sodium orpotassiumhydroxide - does anyone have any ideas on this other than it could bedangerous? Thankand Happy New Year. The way to a fisherman's heart is through his fly. Dave McFalldmcfall@odyssee.net Dave go to this url at the bottom of the page. Ralphhttp://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~chrish/techindx.htm from mrj@aa.net Fri Jan 1 10:26:05 1999 Fri, 1 Jan 1999 08:24:39 -0800 0800 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: RE: dip tube motors from the elephant's graveyard In all this talk about dip tank motors I haven't heard anyone mention using old barbecue rotisserie motors. ( did I miss it?) Right out of the box they run at about a 6 inch per minute pull. I think this is too fast and I built kind of a gear reducer out of two different sized spools to slow it down to between 2 and 4 inches per minute. These are cheap motors that you canfind at garage sales or thrift shops for about a dollar or two and are very dependable. Also they are 120 volt. I don't think that you could lower the speed with a rheostat though. It might work but I think it would burn out the motor fairly quickly.Martin R. Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: dip tube motors from the elephant's graveyard I've been a way a few days so anybody who's sent me mail I haven't ignoredyou.Sourounded with old PC junk as I am at work I'm always looking forsomething to do with it all. I've made a dip tube motor from an oldprinter but something simpler would be the power supply from an oldmachine.All the electrics are there, just deep 6 the fan and replace it with apully or gears. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from rcurry@top.monad.net Fri Jan 1 10:50:38 1999 Subject: Re: Dip Tank Motor Terry,I didn't think about collectible aspects, but I used ferrule cement tofasten the 1"pulley to the aluminum turntable. I figure, if anyone notices it's missing, Ican haveit back together and playing Paul Anka's Greatest Hits in, oh, fifteenminutes. Ofcourse, Paul Anka's Greatest Hits is probably a 45 and I lost the 45adapter; so it maytake me longer.Best regards,Reed Terence Ackland wrote: Quality turntables are valuable. I would check to see that your turntableis not onthe collector list before you junk it to build a dip tank.I still enjoy the the superior sound of vinyl and would not dream ofjunking my my 2decks.T.Ackland from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Fri Jan 1 11:14:00 1999 with SMTP(MDaemon.v2.7.SP5l.R) for ; Fri, 01 Jan1999 12:15:21 -0500 Subject: Sweetwater Rods Does anyone have a current telephone number of Sweetwater Rods? I haveacouple of numbers for George but they aren't good. from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Fri Jan 1 11:14:21 1999 with SMTP(MDaemon.v2.7.SP5l.R) for ; Fri, 01 Jan1999 12:16:10 -0500 Subject: Planing Forms Wanting to purchase planing forms ready to go out of the box. Anysuggestions or comments? Please give recommendations of where topurchase,etc. from teekay35@interlynx.net Fri Jan 1 11:24:42 1999 Subject: Re: Anodizing aluminium David, try Birchwood Casey aluminum blacking avaiable at gun supplyshops. ----------From: McFall David Subject: Anodizing aluminiumDate: Friday, January 01, 1999 10:26 AM Is there a way to chemically change the color of aluminum. I have analuminum winding check that I wish to change to a dull black. I seem torecall that this may be done by putting it in a bath of sodium orpotassiumhydroxide - does anyone have any ideas on this other than it could bedangerous? Thankand Happy New Year. The way to a fisherman's heart is through his fly. Dave McFalldmcfall@odyssee.net from teekay35@interlynx.net Fri Jan 1 11:26:20 1999 , Subject: Re: dip tube motors from the elephant's graveyard You can buy 1rpm, 110v motors for furnace humidifiers. Add a pulley (myfirst was a friction fit cork with cardboard flanges. Later, I turned one from aluminum. If its dia. is 1", one rev. lifts 3.14". Add a simplestand and support. These motors cost approx. $5.00 Can.----------From: Martin Jensen Subject: RE: dip tube motors from the elephant's graveyardDate: Friday, January 01, 1999 11:22 AM In all this talk about dip tank motors I haven't heard anyone mentionusing old barbecue rotisserie motors. ( did I miss it?) Right out of the boxthey run at about a 6 inch per minute pull. I think this is too fast and Ibuilt kind of a gear reducer out of two different sized spools to slow it downto between 2 and 4 inches per minute. These are cheap motors that you canfind at garage sales or thrift shops for about a dollar or two and are very dependable. Also they are 120 volt. I don't think that you could lowerthe speed with a rheostat though. It might work but I think it would burn out the motor fairly quickly.Martin R. Jensen -----Original Message-----From: Tony Young [SMTP:tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au]Sent: Thursday, December 31, 1998 10:11 PM Subject: dip tube motors from the elephant's graveyard I've been a way a few days so anybody who's sent me mail I haven'tignoredyou.Sourounded with old PC junk as I am at work I'm always looking forsomething to do with it all. I've made a dip tube motor from an oldprinter but something simpler would be the power supply from an oldmachine.All the electrics are there, just deep 6 the fan and replace it with apully or gears. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from watson@cape-consult.co.uk Fri Jan 1 11:39:01 1999 Fri, 1 Jan 1999 17:38:55 GMT Subject: Re: Lifespan of a Bamboo rod When I did yacht design at college one of the big issues for buildingwoodenboats was the importance of differential shrinkage, ie where the materialwill shrink in multiple planes. Does bamboo siffer from this as well? Oneof my fly rods is a 1934 Hardy Deluxe and its still fine for me but perhapsan expert would think otherwise.Tim.PS I can remember being in Thailand or Singapore in about '68 and seeinga new highrise hotel being built surrounded with Bamboo scaffolding andguysclimbing all over it T-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Lifespan of a Bamboo rod BretThere is a terrific picture of this scaffolding in Luis Marden's classicOct 1982 National Geographic article on Bamboo. The picture was taken inHong Kong of a high rise building. truly Amazing. Chris On Sun, 27 Dec 1998 14:11:43 EST, Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: List,As some of you know I am in construction. Well awhile back I saw aneatarticle in one of the trade journals about bamboo being made intoscaffoldingin I believe it was Japan. You have to go thru a very intense training tobequalified to do this job as peoples lives depend on what you build. Theywenton to talk about a very big monsoon hitting Japan and how all the metalscaffold that was put up was bent into pretzels and how all of it wastotallydestroyed but the bamboo scaffolding showed no signs of weakness oranydamageat all. Now I am just speculating here but with this info about bamboosxaffolding being so tuff and resiliant my own personal guess would bethatbamboo rods will enjoy a very long lifespan if it is not used to derrickuphalibut from the bottom of the ocean or abused in any other way.Bret from paullyon@epix.net Fri Jan 1 11:40:21 1999 ESMTP id MAA27416 Subject: Happy New Year mac-creator="4D4F5353" One and all: Happiness and good health in 1999. My resolution this year is to catch atrout over 20 inches on a fly. Any other interesting resolutions outthere? Paul from lblan@provide.net Fri Jan 1 13:05:29 1999 Subject: RE: dip tube motors from the elephant's graveyard Any universal (brush type) AC motor can be slowed with a rheostat. Take apeek inside, if it has brushes, you can drop the voltage. A quick, easy, andinexpensive way to cut it in half (approximately) is to wire a diode inseries with the 110v lead. The wattage rating of the diode needs to equalorexceed the rating of the motor. Induction motors (brushless) are the one's that are damaged by loweringthevoltage, examples might be your air conditioning compressor, table sawmotor, etc. -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, January 01, 1999 11:22 AMSubject: RE: dip tube motors from the elephant's graveyard In all this talk about dip tank motors I haven't heard anyonemention usingold barbecue rotisserie motors. ( did I miss it?) Right out ofthe box theyrun at about a 6 inch per minute pull. I think this is too fastand I builtkind of a gear reducer out of two different sized spools to slowit down tobetween 2 and 4 inches per minute. These are cheap motors thatyou can findat garage sales or thrift shops for about a dollar or two and are verydependable. Also they are 120 volt. I don't think that you couldlower thespeed with a rheostat though. It might work but I think it would burn outthe motor fairly quickly.Martin R. Jensen from hhholland@erols.com Fri Jan 1 15:32:58 1999 "Bamboo Flyrod List" Subject: Re: Sweetwater Rods The most current number I have is from the newest issue of "The BambooFlyRod" (yes, I got it at the fly shop I manage -- my personal home deliveryhasn't arrived yet) is:151 Sutter RdLenhartsville PA 19534610-756-6385 Good luck,Hank H. -----Original Message----- Subject: Sweetwater Rods Does anyone have a current telephone number of Sweetwater Rods? Ihave acouple of numbers for George but they aren't good. from paullyon@epix.net Fri Jan 1 16:24:37 1999 ESMTP id RAA19040; Subject: Re: Happy New Year mac-creator="4D4F5353" Brett, Someday, I'll take you up on that, Brett. We've got lots of them that sizearound northeastern Pennsylvania, too. I just have resolved to startstalkingthe big ones instead of catching lots of smaller natives and stocked fish.Been fishing all my life in smaller streams and the largest I've caught wasin the 18 range. I'm overdue for a lunker! Thanks for the invite. Hope you're having a great holiday! Paul Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Paul,Come to Michigan and I can put you into some trout that size on dry flies.Bret from darrell01@netzero.net Fri Jan 1 16:48:36 1999 (206.175.109.83) Subject: New web site, www.rodbuilding.com boundary="=PMail:=_0000@@ZKtW68FhLTAi7aZLvBaS" --=PMail:=_0000@@ZKtW68FhLTAi7aZLvBaS A new site just starting up looks like but they will have cane articles Just thought if you had any free time left, this might take it up a bit... Darrell --=PMail:=_0000@@ZKtW68FhLTAi7aZLvBaS-- ________________________________________________________NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you?Get your FREE Internet Access and Email athttp://www.netzero.net/download.html from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Fri Jan 1 18:05:21 1999 (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Fri, 1 Jan 1999 19:05:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Spline / spine No way...We are dealing with a natural material. I have a better shot atcatching a 20+ trout (not in my lifetime) than believing for a second thereare no weak/strong spots in every rod built. Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod Company)140 E. Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) 277-4510www.munrorodco.com-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Spline / spine Max,John Alden Knight, a famous US FF journalist, fly caster and roddesigner.( I thinkhe helped in the design of the parabolic action) once remarked that youcould notfind a high side on a Garrison stick. A stick is a blank section withoutguides. Onceyou put guides in you have introduced an imbalance.The accuracy that is possible with a plane and formers it is possible toproduce TerryMax Satoh wrote: Terry, Thanks for opinion. It is especially right for low weight (#1,#2) rod at very thin tipportion to kink when rolled down. So in summary, I understood this issue like below; As Paul Lyon suggested, guides may be better to be put on the weakestflat (of-course inside of the ark) for lower wt or slow action rod. Iwant to use Paul's Spline finding method next time. And may be better to be put on the strongest flat (inside of ark) forfighting rod like for stealhead or for a poor back caster like me.(probably for more weight rod of #4 or up). Any further comments? Max Terence Ackland wrote: Rods built from one culm do not have a spine if planed accurately andthefinished sections are absolutely straight and without twists.If you roll a section that is not straight the 'jump' you feel is thekink. The'weak' side is actually the concave of the bow. Try it.T. Ackland David wrote: Dear Max To do the best job for your customer, it helps to know how he/shewill beusing the rod. Putting the strongest side on the "belly" will helpthe rodpull sinking or sink-tip lines out for the backcast. It will alsohelp setthe hook in hard- jawed fishes. Any rod I suspect of being forSteelheadwill get this treatment. I always try a rod with the guides tapedonbefore wrapping them permanently. Sometimes I do this for a fewweeks,trying different combinations (most of my rods have three sections) most satisfying effect. Davy Paul, and all Paul thank you for response. What I questioned seems a little different. Yes, I understand thewayyou take.The method you mentioned is to find the weakest flat in my wordingandput guides on the opposite flat.(this is the weakest flat in my definition.) It is the opposite oftheweakest flat and does not mean the strongest flat (IMHO). I am bending each section by pressing with my parm and finding thestrongest kick back from the blank, then I make the strongest flatupward of my rod (spline). I put guides on the opposite flat ofthisspline.(this is the strongest flat in my definition.) It also doesnotmean the guide surface is the weakest, but weaker for sure.It assures that the upper surface of the rod while casting towardback,is strongest. But if there is a weakest flat next or next to nexttothe strongest flat, the rod will not show the guide surface up whenitis leaned down. Is my method incorrect? What is the true theory? Appreciate your advices. Max Paul Lyon wrote: Max: I was always taught to spine a rod thus: Stand the section of the rod you want to spine up perpendiculr tothefloorwith the tip end down. With your index finger on the butt end ofthesection, press down toward the floor. Whichever way it bendsreveals thespine. I was always taught to put the guides on the inside of thecurve -the strong side, as you call it. But if you want a stiffer,strongeraction, put the guides on the outside of the curve. That's what Iwastaught. Of course, I could be full of it. I prefer putting the guides on the inside of the curve because, Ireason,that's the way the rod wants to bend and you should use thatstructuraltendency in service of the forward cast. There again, I could befull ofit. But that's my theory. Hope I helped. Paul Lyonpaullyon@epix.net Max Satoh wrote: Dear list, Please advise how I should decide the flat on which guides arelocated. There are two thoughts. 1. One is to find the strongest elasticity flat and put guideson theopposit side.2. Two is to find the weakest elasticity flat and put guides onthesurface. I am taking positon of 1. above. It can pick up lines with thestrongest tention of the rod. So does it when a big fish ishooked.But there is some funky guy in my friends who takes position of2 andplace my rod tip on the back of a chair and put the butt on thefloor.And he criticized that the guides are not facing upward on theleaningrod on the chair. (as weakest flat always face up when a rod isleanedon with angle.) The 1. and 2 above not always lies on opposite sides to eachother.Thestrongest and weakest flats sometimes lies just in neighbour,side byside. In such case, the flat which has guides does not face up. Which is the best way? Or any other way of determining theguidesurface? Max --Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHomePage(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 --Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from fiveside@net-gate.com Fri Jan 1 18:14:21 1999 (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA02043 for ;Fri, 1 Jan 1999 19:14:29 Subject: Immortal Tapers Taper List Proposal;To update and give a bit more diversity to the list, Tom Smithwick's 5foot 6 inch one piecer for wt 4&5 should be considered. Many of you whohavecast and built this should second this motion. Bill from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Jan 1 20:33:27 1999 Subject: Re: Spline / spine If there is so much variance in cane what is the point of a taper databaseorrod design software?I can understand there being a difference in different species of bambooandperhaps very small differences from culm to culm. I cannot be persuadedintobelieving there is a difference from one side of a culm to the other.I have never found a soft side on my fishing poles. I control moisturecontent,heat treatment and glue curing very, very carefully.I just call it as I find it, sorry if it does not coincide with your views andexperiences.T.Ackland Jon Lintvet wrote: No way...We are dealing with a natural material. I have a better shot atcatching a 20+ trout (not in my lifetime) than believing for a secondthereare no weak/strong spots in every rod built. Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod Company)140 E. Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) 277-4510www.munrorodco.com-----Original Message----- From: Terence Ackland Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Thursday, December 31, 1998 1:21 PMSubject: Re: Spline / spine Max,John Alden Knight, a famous US FF journalist, fly caster and roddesigner.( I thinkhe helped in the design of the parabolic action) once remarked that youcould notfind a high side on a Garrison stick. A stick is a blank section withoutguides. Onceyou put guides in you have introduced an imbalance.The accuracy that is possible with a plane and formers it is possible toproduce TerryMax Satoh wrote: Terry, Thanks for opinion. It is especially right for low weight (#1,#2) rod at very thin tipportion to kink when rolled down. So in summary, I understood this issue like below; As Paul Lyon suggested, guides may be better to be put on the weakestflat (of-course inside of the ark) for lower wt or slow action rod. Iwant to use Paul's Spline finding method next time. And may be better to be put on the strongest flat (inside of ark) forfighting rod like for stealhead or for a poor back caster like me.(probably for more weight rod of #4 or up). Any further comments? Max Terence Ackland wrote: Rods built from one culm do not have a spine if planed accurately andthefinished sections are absolutely straight and without twists.If you roll a section that is not straight the 'jump' you feel is thekink. The'weak' side is actually the concave of the bow. Try it.T. Ackland David wrote: Dear Max To do the best job for your customer, it helps to know how he/shewill beusing the rod. Putting the strongest side on the "belly" will helpthe rodpull sinking or sink-tip lines out for the backcast. It will alsohelp setthe hook in hard- jawed fishes. Any rod I suspect of being forSteelheadwill get this treatment. I always try a rod with the guides tapedonbefore wrapping them permanently. Sometimes I do this for a fewweeks,trying different combinations (most of my rods have threesections) most satisfying effect. Davy Paul, and all Paul thank you for response. What I questioned seems a little different. Yes, I understand thewayyou take.The method you mentioned is to find the weakest flat in mywordingandput guides on the opposite flat.(this is the weakest flat in my definition.) It is the opposite oftheweakest flat and does not mean the strongest flat (IMHO). I am bending each section by pressing with my parm and findingthestrongest kick back from the blank, then I make the strongest flatupward of my rod (spline). I put guides on the opposite flat ofthisspline.(this is the strongest flat in my definition.) It also doesnotmean the guide surface is the weakest, but weaker for sure.It assures that the upper surface of the rod while casting towardback,is strongest. But if there is a weakest flat next or next to nexttothe strongest flat, the rod will not show the guide surface upwhenitis leaned down. Is my method incorrect? What is the true theory? Appreciate your advices. Max Paul Lyon wrote: Max: I was always taught to spine a rod thus: Stand the section of the rod you want to spine up perpendiculr tothefloorwith the tip end down. With your index finger on the butt end ofthesection, press down toward the floor. Whichever way it bendsreveals thespine. I was always taught to put the guides on the inside of thecurve -the strong side, as you call it. But if you want a stiffer,strongeraction, put the guides on the outside of the curve. That's what Iwastaught. Of course, I could be full of it. I prefer putting the guides on the inside of the curve because, Ireason,that's the way the rod wants to bend and you should use thatstructuraltendency in service of the forward cast. There again, I could befull ofit. But that's my theory. Hope I helped. Paul Lyonpaullyon@epix.net Max Satoh wrote: Dear list, Please advise how I should decide the flat on which guides arelocated. There are two thoughts. 1. One is to find the strongest elasticity flat and put guideson theopposit side.2. Two is to find the weakest elasticity flat and put guides onthesurface. I am taking positon of 1. above. It can pick up lines with thestrongest tention of the rod. So does it when a big fish ishooked.But there is some funky guy in my friends who takes positionof2 andplace my rod tip on the back of a chair and put the butt on thefloor.And he criticized that the guides are not facing upward on theleaningrod on the chair. (as weakest flat always face up when a rod isleanedon with angle.) The 1. and 2 above not always lies on opposite sides to eachother.Thestrongest and weakest flats sometimes lies just in neighbour,side byside. In such case, the flat which has guides does not face up. Which is the best way? Or any other way of determining theguidesurface? Max --Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHomePage(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHomePage(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169 --Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Jan 1 20:55:22 1999 Subject: Re: Anodizing aluminium try http://www.avana.net/~anodise/ McFall David wrote: Is there a way to chemically change the color of aluminum. I have analuminum winding check that I wish to change to a dull black. I seem torecall that this may be done by putting it in a bath of sodium orpotassiumhydroxide - does anyone have any ideas on this other than it could bedangerous? Thankand Happy New Year. The way to a fisherman's heart is through his fly. Dave McFalldmcfall@odyssee.net from jczimny@dol.net Fri Jan 1 21:48:58 1999 Subject: Re: Spline / spine I have found measureable differences in power fiber depth from one sideof a culmto the other side. In some few culms there was almost no difference. Idon't thinkthere is any noticable difference in action in any of them.John Z Terence Ackland wrote: If there is so much variance in cane what is the point of a taper databaseorrod design software?I can understand there being a difference in different species of bambooandperhaps very small differences from culm to culm. I cannot be persuadedintobelieving there is a difference from one side of a culm to the other.I have never found a soft side on my fishing poles. I control moisturecontent,heat treatment and glue curing very, very carefully.I just call it as I find it, sorry if it does not coincide with your viewsandexperiences.T.Ackland Jon Lintvet wrote: No way...We are dealing with a natural material. I have a better shot atcatching a 20+ trout (not in my lifetime) than believing for a secondthereare no weak/strong spots in every rod built. Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod Company)140 E. Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) 277-4510www.munrorodco.com-----Original Message----- From: Terence Ackland Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Thursday, December 31, 1998 1:21 PMSubject: Re: Spline / spine Max,John Alden Knight, a famous US FF journalist, fly caster and roddesigner.( I thinkhe helped in the design of the parabolic action) once remarked that youcould notfind a high side on a Garrison stick. A stick is a blank section withoutguides. Onceyou put guides in you have introduced an imbalance.The accuracy that is possible with a plane and formers it is possibletoproduce TerryMax Satoh wrote: Terry, Thanks for opinion. It is especially right for low weight (#1,#2) rod at very thin tipportion to kink when rolled down. So in summary, I understood this issue like below; As Paul Lyon suggested, guides may be better to be put on theweakestflat (of-course inside of the ark) for lower wt or slow action rod. Iwant to use Paul's Spline finding method next time. And may be better to be put on the strongest flat (inside of ark) forfighting rod like for stealhead or for a poor back caster like me.(probably for more weight rod of #4 or up). Any further comments? Max Terence Ackland wrote: Rods built from one culm do not have a spine if planed accuratelyandthefinished sections are absolutely straight and without twists.If you roll a section that is not straight the 'jump' you feel is thekink. The'weak' side is actually the concave of the bow. Try it.T. Ackland David wrote: Dear Max To do the best job for your customer, it helps to know how he/shewill beusing the rod. Putting the strongest side on the "belly" will helpthe rodpull sinking or sink-tip lines out for the backcast. It will alsohelp setthe hook in hard- jawed fishes. Any rod I suspect of being forSteelheadwill get this treatment. I always try a rod with the guides tapedonbefore wrapping them permanently. Sometimes I do this for afewweeks,trying different combinations (most of my rods have threesections) most satisfying effect. Davy Paul, and all Paul thank you for response. What I questioned seems a little different. Yes, I understand thewayyou take.The method you mentioned is to find the weakest flat in mywordingandput guides on the opposite flat.(this is the weakest flat in my definition.) It is the opposite oftheweakest flat and does not mean the strongest flat (IMHO). I am bending each section by pressing with my parm and findingthestrongest kick back from the blank, then I make the strongestflatupward of my rod (spline). I put guides on the opposite flat ofthisspline.(this is the strongest flat in my definition.) It also doesnotmean the guide surface is the weakest, but weaker for sure.It assures that the upper surface of the rod while castingtowardback,is strongest. But if there is a weakest flat next or next to nexttothe strongest flat, the rod will not show the guide surface upwhenitis leaned down. Is my method incorrect? What is the true theory? Appreciate your advices. Max Paul Lyon wrote: Max: I was always taught to spine a rod thus: Stand the section of the rod you want to spine up perpendiculrtothefloorwith the tip end down. With your index finger on the butt end ofthesection, press down toward the floor. Whichever way it bendsreveals thespine. I was always taught to put the guides on the inside ofthecurve -the strong side, as you call it. But if you want a stiffer,strongeraction, put the guides on the outside of the curve. That's what Iwastaught. Of course, I could be full of it. I prefer putting the guides on the inside of the curve because, Ireason,that's the way the rod wants to bend and you should use thatstructuraltendency in service of the forward cast. There again, I could befull ofit. But that's my theory. Hope I helped. Paul Lyonpaullyon@epix.net Max Satoh wrote: Dear list, Please advise how I should decide the flat on which guidesarelocated. There are two thoughts. 1. One is to find the strongest elasticity flat and put guideson theopposit side.2. Two is to find the weakest elasticity flat and put guidesonthesurface. I am taking positon of 1. above. It can pick up lines with thestrongest tention of the rod. So does it when a big fish ishooked.But there is some funky guy in my friends who takes positionof2 andplace my rod tip on the back of a chair and put the butt onthefloor.And he criticized that the guides are not facing upward ontheleaningrod on the chair. (as weakest flat always face up when a rodisleanedon with angle.) The 1. and 2 above not always lies on opposite sides to eachother.Thestrongest and weakest flats sometimes lies just inneighbour,side byside. In such case, the flat which has guides does not faceup. Which is the best way? Or any other way of determining theguidesurface? Max --Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHomePage(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHomePage(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169 --Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from jsbond@inforamp.net Fri Jan 1 22:35:07 1999 Subject: Fwd: Re: Maurer or Howell? Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 22:09:38 -0500 From: James Bond Subject: Re: Maurer or Howell? George's book is a must for new builders and and a "should have" for anybuilder, it is extremely clear and well done. The only books that can helpa new builder are the Garrison book ( a little confusing), George's andWayne's. Wise, Kreider, Barnes etc are a good read but do not provide theroadmap an isolated new builder needs. Find George's book and buy it! JB At 03:28 PM 23/12/98 -0600, you wrote:I'd like to pick up another book to use in addition to Wayne's as I'mgetting started. I was thinking of getting one of the more recent workslike Maurer or Howell. I would greatly appreciate the recommendationsfromsome folks on the list. Could I ask the favor of some "IMHOs" on thesebooks? I have yet to split my first culm so I'm looking for a goodbeginners reference that includes equipment set up, etc. TIA,Mark Evans from jsbond@inforamp.net Fri Jan 1 22:35:10 1999 Subject: Fwd: Re: BOEGEMAN lathe types="text/plain,text/html";boundary="=====================_2163594==_.ALT" --=====================_2163594==_.ALTContent-Type: text/plain; Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 22:04:19 -0500 From: James Bond Subject: Re: BOEGEMAN lathe This is the same Mini Lathe that is sold at Lee Valley Tools, drop by astoreand have a look. JB At 09:03 AM 28/12/98 -0500, you wrote: Has anyone bought one of those J.C. BOEGEMAN metal lathes advertisedin ThePlaning Form? If so, any reviews off list would be much appreciated. Thanks, Richard richard.nantel@videotron.ca(514) 485-2287 --=====================_2163594==_.ALT Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 22:04:19 -0500 Subject: Re: BOEGEMAN lathe This is the same Mini Lathe that is sold at Lee Valley Tools, drop by astore and have a look. JB At 09:03 AM 28/12/98 -0500, you wrote: Has anyone bought one ofthose J.C. BOEGEMAN metal lathes advertised inThe Planing Form? If so, any reviews off list would be muchappreciated. Thanks, Richard richard.nantel@videotron.ca(514) 485-2287 --=====================_2163594==_.ALT-- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Jan 1 22:59:23 1999 Sat, 2 Jan 1999 12:57:28 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: Spline / spine Geeez guys,if all you want is to catch a measly 20"er on fly get on a plane and getthe to NZ and while you're there take a few Salmon while you're there.In fact try for the Big Three. A 20+" trout, Salmon and a Red Deer in aday. I've done it the hard way ie. without a guide. It's like I've writen before with the $US/$Aussie, $US/$Kiwi as it is it'scomparable with placing a sure thing bet, you know you'll get a 50% returnon your money! Tony On Fri, 1 Jan 1999, Jon Lintvet wrote: No way...We are dealing with a natural material. I have a better shot atcatching a 20+ trout (not in my lifetime) than believing for a secondthereare no weak/strong spots in every rod built. Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod Company)140 E. Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) 277-4510www.munrorodco.com-----Original Message----- From: Terence Ackland Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Thursday, December 31, 1998 1:21 PMSubject: Re: Spline / spine Max,John Alden Knight, a famous US FF journalist, fly caster and roddesigner.( I thinkhe helped in the design of the parabolic action) once remarked that youcould notfind a high side on a Garrison stick. A stick is a blank section withoutguides. Onceyou put guides in you have introduced an imbalance.The accuracy that is possible with a plane and formers it is possible toproduce TerryMax Satoh wrote: Terry, Thanks for opinion. It is especially right for low weight (#1,#2) rod at very thin tipportion to kink when rolled down. So in summary, I understood this issue like below; As Paul Lyon suggested, guides may be better to be put on the weakestflat (of-course inside of the ark) for lower wt or slow action rod. Iwant to use Paul's Spline finding method next time. And may be better to be put on the strongest flat (inside of ark) forfighting rod like for stealhead or for a poor back caster like me.(probably for more weight rod of #4 or up). Any further comments? Max Terence Ackland wrote: Rods built from one culm do not have a spine if planed accurately andthefinished sections are absolutely straight and without twists.If you roll a section that is not straight the 'jump' you feel is thekink. The'weak' side is actually the concave of the bow. Try it.T. Ackland David wrote: Dear Max To do the best job for your customer, it helps to know how he/shewill beusing the rod. Putting the strongest side on the "belly" will helpthe rodpull sinking or sink-tip lines out for the backcast. It will alsohelp setthe hook in hard- jawed fishes. Any rod I suspect of being forSteelheadwill get this treatment. I always try a rod with the guides tapedonbefore wrapping them permanently. Sometimes I do this for a fewweeks,trying different combinations (most of my rods have threesections) most satisfying effect. Davy Paul, and all Paul thank you for response. What I questioned seems a little different. Yes, I understand thewayyou take.The method you mentioned is to find the weakest flat in mywordingandput guides on the opposite flat.(this is the weakest flat in my definition.) It is the opposite oftheweakest flat and does not mean the strongest flat (IMHO). I am bending each section by pressing with my parm and findingthestrongest kick back from the blank, then I make the strongest flatupward of my rod (spline). I put guides on the opposite flat ofthisspline.(this is the strongest flat in my definition.) It also doesnotmean the guide surface is the weakest, but weaker for sure.It assures that the upper surface of the rod while casting towardback,is strongest. But if there is a weakest flat next or next to nexttothe strongest flat, the rod will not show the guide surface upwhenitis leaned down. Is my method incorrect? What is the true theory? Appreciate your advices. Max Paul Lyon wrote: Max: I was always taught to spine a rod thus: Stand the section of the rod you want to spine up perpendiculr tothefloorwith the tip end down. With your index finger on the butt end ofthesection, press down toward the floor. Whichever way it bendsreveals thespine. I was always taught to put the guides on the inside of thecurve -the strong side, as you call it. But if you want a stiffer,strongeraction, put the guides on the outside of the curve. That's what Iwastaught. Of course, I could be full of it. I prefer putting the guides on the inside of the curve because, Ireason,that's the way the rod wants to bend and you should use thatstructuraltendency in service of the forward cast. There again, I could befull ofit. But that's my theory. Hope I helped. Paul Lyonpaullyon@epix.net Max Satoh wrote: Dear list, Please advise how I should decide the flat on which guides arelocated. There are two thoughts. 1. One is to find the strongest elasticity flat and put guideson theopposit side.2. Two is to find the weakest elasticity flat and put guides onthesurface. I am taking positon of 1. above. It can pick up lines with thestrongest tention of the rod. So does it when a big fish ishooked.But there is some funky guy in my friends who takes positionof2 andplace my rod tip on the back of a chair and put the butt on thefloor.And he criticized that the guides are not facing upward on theleaningrod on the chair. (as weakest flat always face up when a rod isleanedon with angle.) The 1. and 2 above not always lies on opposite sides to eachother.Thestrongest and weakest flats sometimes lies just in neighbour,side byside. In such case, the flat which has guides does not face up. Which is the best way? Or any other way of determining theguidesurface? Max --Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHomePage(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHomePage(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169 --Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from maxs@geocities.co.jp Sat Jan 2 02:16:16 1999 mail.geocities.co.jp(8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id RAA22168 for; Sat, 2Jan 1999 17:16:11 +0900 (JST) Subject: Spline-Strength of bamboo strips - Moso Bamboo Hi, As I found an analysis of Moso Bamboo (Japanese species) in materialengineering book(in Japanese), I uploaded it on my web for yourcuriosity. http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Forest/3040/mosotensile.html This analysis was made by Dr. Juhachi Oda who is now Professor ofKanazawa Univ., Industrial Engineering, that analyzes the relationshipof distribution of power fibers and the tensile strength of its location. (of-course they are co related) Analysis is made by taking several samples of inter-node areas atdifferentl height of the same culm and at several places within thestrip's width (ex. pith side and enamel side). The unit of strength isshown in Pascal (Newton/sq.m). So please convert to your unit.% of wall thickness means, assume 100% is the most outer side of thebamboo surface, 0.25 is at the portion of 25 % of the thickness. Theportion of 0% and 100% do not have any value. Though this test is not on Tonkin Bamboo, I think we can understand itsmilar to Tonkin on its characteristics. Moso bamboo has thick dia. 3~4 inches like this;(Introducced as Mousou Chiku) http://home2.highway.or.jp/y-asai/natural.htm#tennen There is a difference of the strength according to the height of thestrip on the orignal culm when we see the glaph of around 75% (or outer)where we mainly use as rod strips. But I'm not sure yet if it doesaffect so much or not. Anyway, when we stagger those strips shiftingseveral inches, the strength of each flat surely implement some level ofimbalance. Max -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from dan_cooney@ibm.net Sat Jan 2 07:44:15 1999 (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA115204; Sat, 2 Jan 1999 13:44:10 GMT Subject: Re: Anodizing aluminium Terry, Minor change on that link: http://www.avana.net/~anodize/ Terence Ackland wrote: try http://www.avana.net/~anodise/ from ewcarlsen@webtv.net Sat Jan 2 07:59:11 1999 105.iap.bryant.webtv.net 111.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id 111.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) ETAtAhUAmaY/gzPql8vI3pNVe1D/W3FU+k0CFHFVzZoD1odovTDWjVmdtP/O1YK4 Subject: Dip Tank Motors Purchased six -12v 1rpm gear drive motors from Tower Hobbies (about$12each) for another project. My dip tube was per Wayne C. except I used a2" to 1 1/4" reducer with male threads so the varnish is not in contactwith the threads. Found a rubber plug at the hardware to close off thetube then cover with a 2" PVC pipe cap. Cadillac Plastics sold me 41/2ft of 3" clear acrylic tube for a dust shield ( $9.00). My ohm metersaid I needed a 10k wire wound pot for speed control. Added a dpdtswitch for forward and reverse ad powered with a Radio Shack 12v plug intransformer ($7.50). Mounted them in a small test box. It was easy tocalculate the size of the wooden spool needed for speeds from 0" to 6"per min lift. Charged the dip tube with Interlux Marine Crystal Clearpoly varnish that is compatible with an initial rubbed coat of tung oilto highlight the wood grain. Once the rod section is up in the dryingtube I close it off with a 3" cork stopper, also from the hardwarestore.Needed a two piece dip tube arrangement as I live in a condo withlimited storage space. Use the living room with a cathedral ceiling.Only place there was enough height. Attach the dip tube to the column system and they look great. Works for me!! Ed Carlsen from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sat Jan 2 10:27:45 1999 (EudoraInternet Mail Server 2.2); Sat, 2 Jan 1999 11:27:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Spline / spine No big deal...I just believe since we are using natural materials, andnothing is ever perfect, a spline could be found. from a planingstandpoint, all it would take is a couple thousandths over/under on onespline over the entire length of a rod. I don't know about everyone else,but I only look at the dimensions in 5" increments for the most part. Thereis a whole lot of cane in between those 5" marks. Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod Company)140 E. Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) 277-4510www.munrorodco.com-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Spline / spine If there is so much variance in cane what is the point of a taper databaseorrod design software?I can understand there being a difference in different species of bambooandperhaps very small differences from culm to culm. I cannot be persuadedintobelieving there is a difference from one side of a culm to the other.I have never found a soft side on my fishing poles. I control moisturecontent,heat treatment and glue curing very, very carefully.I just call it as I find it, sorry if it does not coincide with your viewsandexperiences.T.Ackland Jon Lintvet wrote: No way...We are dealing with a natural material. I have a better shot atcatching a 20+ trout (not in my lifetime) than believing for a secondthereare no weak/strong spots in every rod built. Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod Company)140 E. Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) 277-4510www.munrorodco.com-----Original Message----- From: Terence Ackland Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Thursday, December 31, 1998 1:21 PMSubject: Re: Spline / spine Max,John Alden Knight, a famous US FF journalist, fly caster and roddesigner.( I thinkhe helped in the design of the parabolic action) once remarked that youcould notfind a high side on a Garrison stick. A stick is a blank section withoutguides. Onceyou put guides in you have introduced an imbalance.The accuracy that is possible with a plane and formers it is possibletoproduce TerryMax Satoh wrote: Terry, Thanks for opinion. It is especially right for low weight (#1,#2) rod at very thin tipportion to kink when rolled down. So in summary, I understood this issue like below; As Paul Lyon suggested, guides may be better to be put on theweakestflat (of-course inside of the ark) for lower wt or slow action rod.Iwant to use Paul's Spline finding method next time. And may be better to be put on the strongest flat (inside of ark) forfighting rod like for stealhead or for a poor back caster like me.(probably for more weight rod of #4 or up). Any further comments? Max Terence Ackland wrote: Rods built from one culm do not have a spine if planed accuratelyandthefinished sections are absolutely straight and without twists.If you roll a section that is not straight the 'jump' you feel isthekink. The'weak' side is actually the concave of the bow. Try it.T. Ackland David wrote: Dear Max To do the best job for your customer, it helps to know how he/shewill beusing the rod. Putting the strongest side on the "belly" willhelpthe rodpull sinking or sink-tip lines out for the backcast. It willalsohelp setthe hook in hard- jawed fishes. Any rod I suspect of being forSteelheadwill get this treatment. I always try a rod with the guidestapedonbefore wrapping them permanently. Sometimes I do this for afewweeks,trying different combinations (most of my rods have threesections) most satisfying effect. Davy Paul, and all Paul thank you for response. What I questioned seems a little different. Yes, I understandthewayyou take.The method you mentioned is to find the weakest flat in mywordingandput guides on the opposite flat.(this is the weakest flat in my definition.) It is the oppositeoftheweakest flat and does not mean the strongest flat (IMHO). I am bending each section by pressing with my parm and findingthestrongest kick back from the blank, then I make the strongestflatupward of my rod (spline). I put guides on the opposite flat ofthisspline.(this is the strongest flat in my definition.) It alsodoesnotmean the guide surface is the weakest, but weaker for sure.It assures that the upper surface of the rod while casting towardback,is strongest. But if there is a weakest flat next or next tonexttothe strongest flat, the rod will not show the guide surface upwhenitis leaned down. Is my method incorrect? What is the true theory? Appreciate your advices. Max Paul Lyon wrote: Max: I was always taught to spine a rod thus: Stand the section of the rod you want to spine up perpendiculrtothefloorwith the tip end down. With your index finger on the butt endofthesection, press down toward the floor. Whichever way it bendsreveals thespine. I was always taught to put the guides on the inside ofthecurve -the strong side, as you call it. But if you want a stiffer,strongeraction, put the guides on the outside of the curve. That's whatIwastaught. Of course, I could be full of it. I prefer putting the guides on the inside of the curve because,Ireason,that's the way the rod wants to bend and you should use thatstructuraltendency in service of the forward cast. There again, I couldbefull ofit. But that's my theory. Hope I helped. Paul Lyonpaullyon@epix.net Max Satoh wrote: Dear list, Please advise how I should decide the flat on which guidesarelocated. There are two thoughts. 1. One is to find the strongest elasticity flat and putguideson theopposit side.2. Two is to find the weakest elasticity flat and put guidesonthesurface. I am taking positon of 1. above. It can pick up lines withthestrongest tention of the rod. So does it when a big fish ishooked.But there is some funky guy in my friends who takes positionof2 andplace my rod tip on the back of a chair and put the butt onthefloor.And he criticized that the guides are not facing upward ontheleaningrod on the chair. (as weakest flat always face up when a rodisleanedon with angle.) The 1. and 2 above not always lies on opposite sides to eachother.Thestrongest and weakest flats sometimes lies just in neighbour,side byside. In such case, the flat which has guides does not faceup. Which is the best way? Or any other way of determining theguidesurface? Max --Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHomePage(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHomePage(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169 --Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHomePage(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from darrell01@netzero.net Sat Jan 2 10:50:19 1999 (199.174.228.6) Subject: Re: Dip Tank Motors - Doesn't anybody use a brush anymore? boundary="=PMail:=_0001@@0VWT9l0Ts5MVJoh9PL3l" --=PMail:=_0001@@0VWT9l0Ts5MVJoh9PL3l It seems to me a brush, a can of varnish and my two motors 68 rpm toapplyfinish and 4 rpm to dry the rod seems a lot simpler... Darrell (not to be confused with my other brother Darryl)=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Subject: Dip Tank Motors Purchased six -12v 1rpm gear drive motors from Tower Hobbies (about$12each) for another project. My dip tube was per Wayne C. except I useda2" to 1 1/4" reducer with male threads so the varnish is not in contactwith the threads. Found a rubber plug at the hardware to close off thetube then cover with a 2" PVC pipe cap. Cadillac Plastics sold me 41/2ft of 3" clear acrylic tube for a dust shield ( $9.00). My ohm metersaid I needed a 10k wire wound pot for speed control. Added a dpdtswitch for forward and reverse ad powered with a Radio Shack 12v plugintransformer ($7.50). Mounted them in a small test box. It was easy tocalculate the size of the wooden spool needed for speeds from 0" to 6"per min lift. Charged the dip tube with Interlux Marine Crystal Clearpoly varnish that is compatible with an initial rubbed coat of tung oilto highlight the wood grain. Once the rod section is up in the dryingtube I close it off with a 3" cork stopper, also from the hardwarestore.Needed a two piece dip tube arrangement as I live in a condo withlimited storage space. Use the living room with a cathedral ceiling.Only place there was enough height. Attach the dip tube to the column system and they look great. Works for me!! Ed Carlsen --=PMail:=_0001@@0VWT9l0Ts5MVJoh9PL3l-- ________________________________________________________NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you?Get your FREE Internet Access and Email athttp://www.netzero.net/download.html from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Jan 2 10:59:55 1999 Subject: Re: Spline-Strength of bamboo strips - Moso Bamboo Max,I am sorry. I just try to build half decent fishing poles without all thepseudo science.I know that many on the list enjoy theorizing and quantifying personalpreferences.I, on the other hand enjoy the challenge of trying to build quality canerods that the average angler can afford.Terry Ackland Max Satoh wrote: Hi, As I found an analysis of Moso Bamboo (Japanese species) in materialengineering book(in Japanese), I uploaded it on my web for yourcuriosity. http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Forest/3040/mosotensile.html This analysis was made by Dr. Juhachi Oda who is now Professor ofKanazawa Univ., Industrial Engineering, that analyzes the relationshipof distribution of power fibers and the tensile strength ofits location. (of-course they are co related) Analysis is made by taking several samples of inter-node areas atdifferentl height of the same culm and at several places within thestrip's width (ex. pith side and enamel side). The unit of strength isshown in Pascal (Newton/sq.m). So please convert to your unit.% of wall thickness means, assume 100% is the most outer side of thebamboo surface, 0.25 is at the portion of 25 % of the thickness. Theportion of 0% and 100% do not have any value. Though this test is not on Tonkin Bamboo, I think we can understand itsmilar to Tonkin on itscharacteristics. Moso bamboo has thick dia. 3~4 inches like this;(Introducced as Mousou Chiku) http://home2.highway.or.jp/y-asai/natural.htm#tennen There is a difference of the strength according to the height of thestrip on the orignal culm when we see the glaph of around 75% (or outer)where we mainly use as rod strips. But I'm not sure yet if it doesaffect so much or not. Anyway, when we stagger those strips shiftingseveral inches, the strength of each flat surely implement some level ofimbalance. Max --Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from Turbotrk@aol.com Sat Jan 2 11:07:50 1999 Subject: Thoughts for a slow list Hey guys, has anyone tried making cork grips out of wine bottle corks. Iwas wondering if this had been experimented with. I had two ideas. Onewasto cut the cork the way we cut bamboo and glueing them together. Afterplaying with a few corks (guess what day they appeared on my work bench)I sawthat the diameter would be about 1.5" if you use the 60 degree method. Thisseems to small for handles. The other way I thought of was to cut thecorkinto retangular pieces and glue them up in a staggerd fashion. I know thatIcould produce any size and lenghth with this method but all those gluelineswould detract from it. Second question: Should we store our bamboo rods in a sealed tube withthosede-humidifying crystals to keep them as dry as possible. Seems thatmoistureis our biggest enemy if we want a crisp casting rod. Happy New Year to all and oh yeaGO VOLSStuart S. Miller from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Jan 2 11:39:43 1999 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Immortal Tapers Bill - Thanks for the kind mention of the 5 1/2 foot taper, but I doubt thatthis is one of those tapers that the gods will carry into Valhalla withthem.I think that it is a bit too specialized to qualify in a list of all time, allaround, versatile tapers. I also want to add my voice to that of Terry and John in the opinion that,within reason, variations from culm to culm and within a culm don't makeforlarge differences. Taper seems to me to be the critical factor in roddesign.Glue, heat treating, etc, all make a difference, but the overall feel of therod will not change much if the taper is accurate and you have followedreasonable building procedures. I think an excercise like this isworthwhile.You may not be able to exactly duplicate the work of one of the oldmasters,but you can get very close.I got to cast an original Garrison last year, It was really nice, but notreally any different in terms of casting than the clones being built bypeopletoday. from harry37@epix.net Sat Jan 2 11:52:01 1999 Subject: Re: Another Subject Fallcreek9@aol.com wrote: List: The following is told because we think it is important enough. My wife recently had a mammogram that warranted a biopsy. The biopsywarranted a single mastectomy. The surgery was successfullyperformed Dec21st, and on the 23d we got the wonderful news that Shirl is cancer freeandcured with no further treatment necessary. The reason for the goodnews isthat the cancer was caught early in it's development and had not begunanoutward march. The reason this is being brought to everyone's attention is to encourageanyand all to insure that no loved one goes without a proper detectionroutine.Our hanging personal family business out on the internet line is a bitscary,but Shirl and I wanted everyone to know by our example that earlydetection isimportant and effective. Happy New Year to All,Richard Tyree To all, Without sounding like a bit of a public service announcement, the sameadvice goes for colo-rectal cancer screening. A hemoccult is simple,cheap, and can give you the same early warning that Richard spoke about,but for colo-rectal cancer. Greg from harry37@epix.net Sat Jan 2 11:56:35 1999 Subject: Re: Thoughts for a slow list Turbotrk@aol.com wrote: Hey guys, has anyone tried making cork grips out of wine bottle corks. Iwas wondering if this had been experimented with. I had two ideas. Onewasto cut the cork the way we cut bamboo and glueing them together. Afterplaying with a few corks (guess what day they appeared on my workbench) I sawthat the diameter would be about 1.5" if you use the 60 degree method. Thisseems to small for handles. The other way I thought of was to cut thecorkinto retangular pieces and glue them up in a staggerd fashion. I knowthat Icould produce any size and lenghth with this method but all those gluelineswould detract from it. Second question: Should we store our bamboo rods in a sealed tube withthosede-humidifying crystals to keep them as dry as possible. Seems thatmoistureis our biggest enemy if we want a crisp casting rod. Happy New Year to all and oh yeaGO VOLSStuart S. Miller Try the bottom layer from Champagne corks. It will take a while toaccumilate what you need, but can you think of a better excuse to buysparkling wines? Greg from mrj@aa.net Sat Jan 2 13:35:05 1999 Sat, 2 Jan 1999 11:34:58 -0800 0800 "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Subject: RE: Spline / spine Jon,I locate my guides by placing the butt end of my blank section on a sturdy table and then bouncing my finger up and down on the rod section abouttwo or three inches out past the table. I do this in turn, with each flat face down on the table. I look at the tip of the section, and on one (usually two) flat there will be a noticeable difference in how the tip bounces around. The tip will start to bounce up and down like you are pushing the rod, but then it will start to rotate and bounce around in a circular pattern. (I place my guides on the flat that has the closest bounce to an up and down motion that I can find. Usually, if you get a fairly perpendicular bounce on one flat you will get similar results on the opposite flat also. Then I hold the rod section straight out and sight down the length of it. I used to rotate the rod so that it had the least droop using only the two flats that had the best up and down bounce, and placemy guides on the opposite side. I have reversed this procedure simply because I like the way the rod casts better.)All this indicates to me that there are stronger or weaker sides to the bamboo as you have mentioned. Or at least maybe density differences(which I doubt). I don't look for a spline in the traditional sense but my method still finds the casting plane that is most natural to a forward and backward cast.Martin R. Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Spline / spine No big deal...I just believe since we are using natural materials, andnothing is ever perfect, a spline could be found. from a planingstandpoint, all it would take is a couple thousandths over/under on onespline over the entire length of a rod. I don't know about everyone else,but I only look at the dimensions in 5" increments for the most part. Thereis a whole lot of cane in between those 5" marks. Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod Company)140 E. Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) 277-4510www.munrorodco.com-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Spline / spine If there is so much variance in cane what is the point of a taper databaseorrod design software?I can understand there being a difference in different species of bambooandperhaps very small differences from culm to culm. I cannot be persuadedintobelieving there is a difference from one side of a culm to the other.I have never found a soft side on my fishing poles. I control moisturecontent,heat treatment and glue curing very, very carefully.I just call it as I find it, sorry if it does not coincide with your viewsandexperiences.T.Ackland Jon Lintvet wrote: No way...We are dealing with a natural material. I have a better shot atcatching a 20+ trout (not in my lifetime) than believing for a secondthereare no weak/strong spots in every rod built. Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod Company)140 E. Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) 277-4510www.munrorodco.com-----Original Message----- From: Terence Ackland Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Thursday, December 31, 1998 1:21 PMSubject: Re: Spline / spine Max,John Alden Knight, a famous US FF journalist, fly caster and roddesigner.( I thinkhe helped in the design of the parabolic action) once remarked that youcould notfind a high side on a Garrison stick. A stick is a blank section withoutguides. Onceyou put guides in you have introduced an imbalance.The accuracy that is possible with a plane and formers it is possible toproduce TerryMax Satoh wrote: Terry, Thanks for opinion. It is especially right for low weight (#1,#2) rod at very thin tipportion to kink when rolled down. So in summary, I understood this issue like below; As Paul Lyon suggested, guides may be better to be put on theweakestflat (of-course inside of the ark) for lower wt or slow action rod.Iwant to use Paul's Spline finding method next time. And may be better to be put on the strongest flat (inside of ark) forfighting rod like for stealhead or for a poor back caster like me.(probably for more weight rod of #4 or up). Any further comments? Max Terence Ackland wrote: Rods built from one culm do not have a spine if planed accuratelyandthefinished sections are absolutely straight and without twists.If you roll a section that is not straight the 'jump' you feel isthekink. The'weak' side is actually the concave of the bow. Try it.T. Ackland David wrote: Dear Max To do the best job for your customer, it helps to know how he/shewill beusing the rod. Putting the strongest side on the "belly" willhelpthe rodpull sinking or sink-tip lines out for the backcast. It willalsohelp setthe hook in hard- jawed fishes. Any rod I suspect of being forSteelheadwill get this treatment. I always try a rod with the guidestapedonbefore wrapping them permanently. Sometimes I do this for afewweeks,trying different combinations (most of my rods have threesections) most satisfying effect. Davy Paul, and all Paul thank you for response. What I questioned seems a little different. Yes, I understandthewayyou take.The method you mentioned is to find the weakest flat in mywordingandput guides on the opposite flat.(this is the weakest flat in my definition.) It is the oppositeoftheweakest flat and does not mean the strongest flat (IMHO). I am bending each section by pressing with my parm and findingthestrongest kick back from the blank, then I make the strongestflatupward of my rod (spline). I put guides on the opposite flat ofthisspline.(this is the strongest flat in my definition.) It alsodoesnotmean the guide surface is the weakest, but weaker for sure.It assures that the upper surface of the rod while casting towardback,is strongest. But if there is a weakest flat next or next tonexttothe strongest flat, the rod will not show the guide surface upwhenitis leaned down. Is my method incorrect? What is the true theory? Appreciate your advices. Max Paul Lyon wrote: Max: I was always taught to spine a rod thus: Stand the section of the rod you want to spine up perpendiculrtothefloorwith the tip end down. With your index finger on the butt endofthesection, press down toward the floor. Whichever way it bendsreveals thespine. I was always taught to put the guides on the inside ofthecurve -the strong side, as you call it. But if you want a stiffer,strongeraction, put the guides on the outside of the curve. That's whatIwastaught. Of course, I could be full of it. I prefer putting the guides on the inside of the curve because,Ireason,that's the way the rod wants to bend and you should use thatstructuraltendency in service of the forward cast. There again, I couldbefull ofit. But that's my theory. Hope I helped. Paul Lyonpaullyon@epix.net Max Satoh wrote: Dear list, Please advise how I should decide the flat on which guidesarelocated. There are two thoughts. 1. One is to find the strongest elasticity flat and putguideson theopposit side.2. Two is to find the weakest elasticity flat and put guidesonthesurface. I am taking positon of 1. above. It can pick up lines withthestrongest tention of the rod. So does it when a big fish ishooked.But there is some funky guy in my friends who takes positionof2 andplace my rod tip on the back of a chair and put the butt onthefloor.And he criticized that the guides are not facing upward ontheleaningrod on the chair. (as weakest flat always face up when a rodisleanedon with angle.) The 1. and 2 above not always lies on opposite sides to eachother.Thestrongest and weakest flats sometimes lies just in neighbour,side byside. In such case, the flat which has guides does not faceup. Which is the best way? Or any other way of determining theguidesurface? Max --Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHomePage(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHomePage(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169 --Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHomePage(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from tripp@olywa.net Sat Jan 2 16:43:52 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-56662U5000L500S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Sat, 2 Jan 1999 14:44:05 -0800 Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine Mine showed up today. July/August issue... Mark ---------- Subject: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine Good News.Lots of talk about the status of subscriptions. I too was a chartersubscriber. My copy of "The Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine", July/August issue,showed up in the mail today.Bill from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Sat Jan 2 17:39:10 1999 mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net(InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP Subject: Index to Archives Does such a thing exist? Are the archives by any chance indexed at a sitelike this http://lq.corenetworks.com/lq/about.html ?Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from SBDunn@aol.com Sat Jan 2 17:45:26 1999 Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine My BFR arrived today! Yahoo!!! from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Jan 2 17:55:43 1999 Subject: Re: Thoughts for a slow list Greg / Sturat I would especially like to recommend the 1990 Dom Perignon for bothhaving excellent cork and also being a fine bubbly. Chris On Sat, 02 Jan 1999 12:45:36 -0500, Greg Kuntz wrote: Turbotrk@aol.com wrote: Hey guys, has anyone tried making cork grips out of wine bottle corks. Iwas wondering if this had been experimented with. I had two ideas. One wasto cut the cork the way we cut bamboo and glueing them together. Afterplaying with a few corks (guess what day they appeared on my workbench) I sawthat the diameter would be about 1.5" if you use the 60 degree method. Thisseems to small for handles. The other way I thought of was to cut thecorkinto retangular pieces and glue them up in a staggerd fashion. I knowthat Icould produce any size and lenghth with this method but all those gluelineswould detract from it. Second question: Should we store our bamboo rods in a sealed tube withthosede-humidifying crystals to keep them as dry as possible. Seems thatmoistureis our biggest enemy if we want a crisp casting rod. Happy New Year to all and oh yeaGO VOLSStuart S. Miller Try the bottom layer from Champagne corks. It will take a while toaccumilate what you need, but can you think of a better excuse to buysparkling wines? Greg from Anachemrpo@aol.com Sat Jan 2 18:06:09 1999 Subject: Ferrule click and fishing rod Listers, I have a Edwards Bristol Built f-18, 8.5', three piece that is in really goodshape except the female ferrule in the first section has a click to it. I would like to fish this rod, and since it is otherwise in good originalshape I'd rather not compromise the originality by taking the wraps andferrule off to fix the click, unless I'm endangering the rod and just asking Advice on the meaning and significance of clicking at the ferrule to rodintegrity is sought. Thank you in advance, Russ Lavigne from paullyon@epix.net Sat Jan 2 20:43:42 1999 ESMTP id VAA28179; Subject: Re: Happy New Year mac-creator="4D4F5353" Bret, Anytime. Being a married father of two, I don't have much financialwherewithal for flyfishing junkets so come on down. There's plenty ofgreat rivers and streams right here in my back yard - the UpperDelaware, of course, being the most prominent. But plenty of productivesmaller streams, as well. As a matter of fact, the Brodhead Creek, whichis about an hour from here, is the birthplace of American sportfishing.And the Beaverkill in the nearby Catskills is like Mecca for most of us.Keep in touch. Paul Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Paul,well maybe I can come up to PA this sumer and you can show me around.Bret from jsbond@inforamp.net Sat Jan 2 22:11:16 1999 Subject: Re: Maurer or Howell? The Lovely Reed Jack Howell JB At 04:34 PM 02/01/99 -0500, you wrote:In a message dated 1/1/99 9:43:39 PM Mountain Standard Time,jsbond@inforamp.net writes: Pardon my ignorance, can you give the title and full authors name for"Howell"Thank you Ben JarvisHyde Park UT from stpete@netten.net Sat Jan 2 22:37:07 1999 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12)with SMTP id WAA09025 for ; Sat, 2 Jan Subject: Truncated or Standard Ferrules???? List, I know that this was discussed 6 or 8 months ago, but I'm hoping forupdated information (perhaps more have tried truncated ferrules sincethen). I am thinking of using truncated ferrules on 3 pc rods. I'dlove to hear responses on the following: 1) What is your opinion of truncated ferrules vs standard ferrules? 2) If you DO use truncated ferrules, is there a rod length / weightlimit to which you would restrict their use? 3) Have you ever had a bad experience with truncated ferrules? 4) What advantages have you experienced using truncated ferrules? Thanks in advance. I think there are others out here who wouldappreciate the advice and opinions of you experience rodmakers outthere. Rick C. from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sat Jan 2 22:45:31 1999 (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP Sun, 3 Jan 1999 04:44:59 +0000 Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine I got mine today, too. George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine Mine showed up today. July/August issue... Mark ----------From: Bill Strelke Subject: Bamboo Fly Rod MagazineDate: Wednesday, December 30, 1998 2:28 PM Good News.Lots of talk about the status of subscriptions. I too was a chartersubscriber. My copy of "The Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine", July/Augustissue,showed up in the mail today.Bill from ragnarig@integrityol.com Sun Jan 3 01:14:41 1999 (SMTPD32-4.06) id AB2116850100; Sat, 02 Jan 1999 23:24:17 PDT Subject: Re: Thoughts for a slow list My money's on the Veuve Cliquot- any '60s vintage. Also makes greatclamping pads.Davy Greg / Sturat I would especially like to recommend the 1990 Dom Perignon for bothhaving excellent cork and also being a fine bubbly. Chris On Sat, 02 Jan 1999 12:45:36 -0500, Greg Kuntz wrote: Turbotrk@aol.com wrote: Hey guys, has anyone tried making cork grips out of wine bottle corks.Iwas wondering if this had been experimented with. I had two ideas. Onewasto cut the cork the way we cut bamboo and glueing them together. Afterplaying with a few corks (guess what day they appeared on my workbench)I sawthat the diameter would be about 1.5" if you use the 60 degree method.Thisseems to small for handles. The other way I thought of was to cut thecorkinto retangular pieces and glue them up in a staggerd fashion. I knowthat Icould produce any size and lenghth with this method but all those gluelines>>> would detract from it. Second question: Should we store our bamboo rods in a sealed tubewiththosede-humidifying crystals to keep them as dry as possible. Seems thatmoistureis our biggest enemy if we want a crisp casting rod. Happy New Year to all and oh yeaGO VOLSStuart S. Miller Try the bottom layer from Champagne corks. It will take a while toaccumilate what you need, but can you think of a better excuse to buysparkling wines? Greg from saltwein@swbell.net Sun Jan 3 07:19:28 1999 HAA16018 Subject: Cane Selection In light of the recent discussions about power fibers and with theknowledge that very good rods have been built with no regard to theparticular culm a strip came from. I was wondering what the perceptionsof the list in general were as to strip selection. Eschewing the effect of nodes, does it make any difference at all wherea strip comes from on a culm? I realize that you can come across stripsthat are noodles and therefore worthless, but if the cane in question isresilient and has sufficient power fibers, does it make any differencewhere it was on the culm? Does cane have any inherent characteristicsbecause of its location at the base, middle or top of a culm? Is node placement completely cosmetic? I recall reading in the Archivesthat an individual built a rod with the nodes all in one location.Surely if nodes constituted a weak spot then this rod would fail atfirst use. Node placement at or near tip. What are the experiences of modern rods?Have any current builders placed a node within an inch or two of the tipof a rod that has received a modicum of use? If so, what were theeffects? Looking forward to any and all responses. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from dmanders@telusplanet.net Sun Jan 3 08:55:16 1999 don") by eeyore.eon.netwith SMTP id ; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 07:54:52 -0700 Subject: Mean-mouthing Garrison Guys, Over the past 2 years I've read post after post of folks who havemean- mouthed Garrison's book. I for one can't figure out what the problemis with Garrison. The drawings are straight forward. The math leaves alittle to be desired - but so what. Without him and books like his, most ofus would not have been building at all.I started with Garrison's book and a little help from a fellow who showedme how to build wood forms. It worked enough that I've built about 60 orsorods. Certainly I've changed the technique that Garrison used to suitmyself but fundamentally the technique that Garrison used is by myselfand modified/rethought some of Garrison's techniques and modified them tosuitthemselves. While subsequent books have added some knowledge to the process - theyareessentially a regurgitation of Garrison's methods.It's a happy day when you discover the Holy Grail, I believe that theGrail is Garrison and all others after it have just polished the vessel. All the best, Don from paullyon@epix.net Sun Jan 3 09:08:45 1999 ESMTP id KAA23917; Subject: Re: Happy New Year mac-creator="4D4F5353" Around where? Paul Turbotrk@aol.com wrote: My resolution is to catch one over 20 pounds. Oh yea, I am not kidding. Wegrow them that big around here. stuart miller from paullyon@epix.net Sun Jan 3 09:18:53 1999 ESMTP id KAA24625; Subject: Re: Ferrule click and fishing rod mac-creator="4D4F5353" Russ: Does the click go away if you push the ferrule together tighter? I have onethatbehaves like that. Just offering a potentially simple solution. Paul Anachemrpo@aol.com wrote: Listers, I have a Edwards Bristol Built f-18, 8.5', three piece that is in reallygoodshape except the female ferrule in the first section has a click to it. I would like to fish this rod, and since it is otherwise in good originalshape I'd rather not compromise the originality by taking the wraps andferrule off to fix the click, unless I'm endangering the rod and justasking Advice on the meaning and significance of clicking at the ferrule to rodintegrity is sought. Thank you in advance, Russ Lavigne from dpeaston@wzrd.com Sun Jan 3 09:53:48 1999 mail.wzrd.com (8.9.1/8.7.3) Subject: Re: Ferrule click and fishing rod At 07:05 PM 1/2/99 EST, Anachemrpo@aol.com wrote:Listers, I have a Edwards Bristol Built f-18, 8.5', three piece that is in reallygoodshape except the female ferrule in the first section has a click to it. I would like to fish this rod, and since it is otherwise in good originalshape I'd rather not compromise the originality by taking the wraps andferrule off to fix the click, unless I'm endangering the rod and just asking Advice on the meaning and significance of clicking at the ferrule to rodintegrity is sought. Thank you in advance, Russ Lavigne Russ, Not being able to hear your "click" puts me at a disadvantage in diagnosingthe problem with your Bristol. If the click is a distinctive metallicsound. you probably have a worn ferrule. There are a number of ways todealwith this sort of problem. If it is really bad you may have to replace theferrule. If it is really minor you can probably fix it by putting bee's wax(sparingly) on the male. If the wax doesn't do it then it is often possible to fix by compressingthe female in a 3-jawed chuck for a drill or lathe. More recently someoneon the list wrote that you can remove the male and fill it with fine sand.Then compress the sand buy placing a metal rod into the ferrule andstriking the metal rod with a hammer (in a controlled manner) so as toexpand the male ferrule. If your click involves the rod blank where it enters the female ferrule.You have no choice but to remove and re-seat the ferrule. You shouldresolve this issue before you fish the rod. My personal experience is thata ferrule loose on the blank will often lead to catastrophe- a broken rod. There is much on this issue on this list (see Jerry's archives). Also theseissues are covered in Mike Sinclair's "Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook,"beginning on page 36. Mike warns that if one ferrule is loose on the blank,there are probably others. Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Jan 3 09:56:28 1999 "Anachemrpo@aol.com" Subject: Re: Ferrule click and fishing rod Russ This is a problem you should have taken care of - especiallyif you want to fish the rod. If you don't - bad things could happen. The clicking is caused by a loose ferrule - the glue has failed is holding it on. Continue to flex it will cause the pin to work into thecane and cause more damage until that bad thing happens and youloose that section of the rod. Best thing to do is to remove the pin. Depends - you candrive it out with small punch or drill it out with a very fine drill bit. The ferrule will come off easily - clean off the old glue - and you canreglue and remount the ferrule. Repining is your option. Bailey Woodsells the NS wire or borrow a small piece from somebody who has a stash. Chris On Sat, 2 Jan 1999 19:05:22 EST, Anachemrpo@aol.com wrote: Listers, I have a Edwards Bristol Built f-18, 8.5', three piece that is in reallygoodshape except the female ferrule in the first section has a click to it. I would like to fish this rod, and since it is otherwise in good originalshape I'd rather not compromise the originality by taking the wraps andferrule off to fix the click, unless I'm endangering the rod and just asking Advice on the meaning and significance of clicking at the ferrule to rodintegrity is sought. Thank you in advance, Russ Lavigne Regards Chris from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Jan 3 10:38:04 1999 Subject: Dickerson said Hi, seeing that the list is pretty dead, perhaps there could be somefriendly interchange on the following?I have been looking through an old ( Fall 1991) copy of The American FlyFisher magazine at an article on famous US rodmakers. In the chapter onGarrison, Dickerson was to have said about Garrison, "If rod making wasas difficult as Garrison described, no one would have been able to havebuilt rods."Judging by all the books and videos that are available based on theoriginal Charmichael/Garrison excellent book and the number of builders,Dickerson was dead wrong.T. Ackland from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Jan 3 11:00:50 1999 "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Subject: Re: Spline / spine Martin,generally the rod action in fly fishing is in an eliptical pattern. Fromcasting to mending line to setting hooks is not a mechanical one planeaction.I put my guides on what looks the straightest when sighting down the rod.Icannot remember any complaints about the guides being 60 degs or so off!T. Ackland Martin Jensen wrote: Jon,I locate my guides by placing the butt end of my blank section on asturdytable and then bouncing my finger up and down on the rod section abouttwoor three inches out past the table. I do this in turn, with each flat facedown on the table. I look at the tip of the section, and on one (usuallytwo) flat there will be a noticeable difference in how the tip bouncesaround. The tip will start to bounce up and down like you are pushing therod, but then it will start to rotate and bounce around in a circularpattern. (I place my guides on the flat that has the closest bounce to anup and down motion that I can find. Usually, if you get a fairlyperpendicular bounce on one flat you will get similar results on theopposite flat also. Then I hold the rod section straight out and sightdownthe length of it. I used to rotate the rod so that it had the least droopusing only the two flats that had the best up and down bounce, and placemyguides on the opposite side. I have reversed this procedure simplybecauseI like the way the rod casts better.)All this indicates to me that there are stronger or weaker sides to thebamboo as you have mentioned. Or at least maybe density differences(whichI doubt). I don't look for a spline in the traditional sense but my methodstill finds the casting plane that is most natural to a forward andbackward cast.Martin R. Jensen -----Original Message-----From: Jon Lintvet [SMTP:jlintvet@clarityconnect.com]Sent: Saturday, January 02, 1999 8:31 AM Subject: Re: Spline / spine No big deal...I just believe since we are using natural materials, andnothing is ever perfect, a spline could be found. from a planingstandpoint, all it would take is a couple thousandths over/under on onespline over the entire length of a rod. I don't know about everyone else,but I only look at the dimensions in 5" increments for the most part.Thereis a whole lot of cane in between those 5" marks. Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod Company)140 E. Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) 277-4510www.munrorodco.com-----Original Message----- From: Terence Ackland Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Friday, January 01, 1999 9:35 PMSubject: Re: Spline / spine If there is so much variance in cane what is the point of a taperdatabaseorrod design software?I can understand there being a difference in different species of bambooandperhaps very small differences from culm to culm. I cannot bepersuadedintobelieving there is a difference from one side of a culm to the other.I have never found a soft side on my fishing poles. I control moisturecontent,heat treatment and glue curing very, very carefully.I just call it as I find it, sorry if it does not coincide with your viewsandexperiences.T.Ackland Jon Lintvet wrote: No way...We are dealing with a natural material. I have a better shotatcatching a 20+ trout (not in my lifetime) than believing for a secondthereare no weak/strong spots in every rod built. Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod Company)140 E. Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) 277-4510www.munrorodco.com-----Original Message----- From: Terence Ackland Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Thursday, December 31, 1998 1:21 PMSubject: Re: Spline / spine Max,John Alden Knight, a famous US FF journalist, fly caster and roddesigner.( I thinkhe helped in the design of the parabolic action) once remarked thatyoucould notfind a high side on a Garrison stick. A stick is a blank sectionwithoutguides. Onceyou put guides in you have introduced an imbalance.The accuracy that is possible with a plane and formers it is possibletoproduce TerryMax Satoh wrote: Terry, Thanks for opinion. It is especially right for low weight (#1,#2) rod at very thin tipportion to kink when rolled down. So in summary, I understood this issue like below; As Paul Lyon suggested, guides may be better to be put on theweakestflat (of-course inside of the ark) for lower wt or slow action rod.Iwant to use Paul's Spline finding method next time. And may be better to be put on the strongest flat (inside of ark) forfighting rod like for stealhead or for a poor back caster like me.(probably for more weight rod of #4 or up). Any further comments? Max Terence Ackland wrote: Rods built from one culm do not have a spine if planed accuratelyandthefinished sections are absolutely straight and without twists.If you roll a section that is not straight the 'jump' you feel isthekink. The'weak' side is actually the concave of the bow. Try it.T. Ackland David wrote: Dear Max To do the best job for your customer, it helps to know howhe/shewill beusing the rod. Putting the strongest side on the "belly" willhelpthe rodpull sinking or sink-tip lines out for the backcast. It willalsohelp setthe hook in hard- jawed fishes. Any rod I suspect of being forSteelheadwill get this treatment. I always try a rod with the guidestapedonbefore wrapping them permanently. Sometimes I do this for afewweeks,trying different combinations (most of my rods have threesections) most satisfying effect. Davy Paul, and all Paul thank you for response. What I questioned seems a little different. Yes, I understandthewayyou take.The method you mentioned is to find the weakest flat in mywordingandput guides on the opposite flat.(this is the weakest flat in my definition.) It is the oppositeoftheweakest flat and does not mean the strongest flat (IMHO). I am bending each section by pressing with my parm and findingthestrongest kick back from the blank, then I make the strongestflatupward of my rod (spline). I put guides on the opposite flatofthisspline.(this is the strongest flat in my definition.) It alsodoesnotmean the guide surface is the weakest, but weaker for sure.It assures that the upper surface of the rod while castingtowardback,is strongest. But if there is a weakest flat next or next tonexttothe strongest flat, the rod will not show the guide surface upwhenitis leaned down. Is my method incorrect? What is the true theory? Appreciate your advices. Max Paul Lyon wrote: Max: I was always taught to spine a rod thus: Stand the section of the rod you want to spine up perpendiculrtothefloorwith the tip end down. With your index finger on the butt endofthesection, press down toward the floor. Whichever way it bendsreveals thespine. I was always taught to put the guides on the inside ofthecurve -the strong side, as you call it. But if you want a stiffer,strongeraction, put the guides on the outside of the curve. That'swhatIwastaught. Of course, I could be full of it. I prefer putting the guides on the inside of the curvebecause,Ireason,that's the way the rod wants to bend and you should use thatstructuraltendency in service of the forward cast. There again, I couldbefull ofit. But that's my theory. Hope I helped. Paul Lyonpaullyon@epix.net Max Satoh wrote: Dear list, Please advise how I should decide the flat on which guidesarelocated. There are two thoughts. 1. One is to find the strongest elasticity flat and putguideson theopposit side.2. Two is to find the weakest elasticity flat and put guidesonthesurface. I am taking positon of 1. above. It can pick up lines withthestrongest tention of the rod. So does it when a big fish ishooked.But there is some funky guy in my friends who takespositionof2 andplace my rod tip on the back of a chair and put the butt onthefloor.And he criticized that the guides are not facing upward ontheleaningrod on the chair. (as weakest flat always face up when arodisleanedon with angle.) The 1. and 2 above not always lies on opposite sides to eachother.Thestrongest and weakest flats sometimes lies just inneighbour,side byside. In such case, the flat which has guides does not faceup. Which is the best way? Or any other way of determining theguidesurface? Max --Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHomePage(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHomePage(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169 --Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHomePage(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from rcurry@top.monad.net Sun Jan 3 11:27:46 1999 Subject: Re: Ferrule click and fishing rod Russ,"Meaning and significance of clicking". I like that.First you need to further identify the problem. Your email doesn't makeclearwhether the clicking is from a loose NS/Cane connection or from a loosefit withthe male ferrule. A simple test would be to hold the butt section by theferruleand wag it up and down. If you don't hear/feel the click then it wouldindicateeither the male ferrule was loose in the female, or the male is loose onthe wood(as opposed to "a male loose in the woods" for which you should consultTonyYoung). A candle stub will permit you to get another year's fishing out ofit, ifthe male is loose in the female.If the female is loose on the wood, you have two alternatives: Chairlokorremoval-and replacement.1/ Chairlok - The F-18 will have top quality waterproof ferrules, soyouwould need to remove the windings. Heat the ferrule over an alcohol lampuntilunpleasantly hot. Saturate the area around the serrations with theChairlok.Wiggle the ferrule slightly in all directions, giving space for the Chairloktoenter. Wait several hours and test for clicking. 2/ Removal - If you must remove the female, you will probably finditnecessary after removing (driving in or pulling out) the pin, to heat theferrule.Old ferrule cement can be pretty tough, but it softens nicely under heat..Don'tworry about replacing the pin, IMHO, the pin is only there as a last resort.Ijust removed and replaced all the ferrules on a 7' 4/2 valise rod. It tookonly 15minutes per ferrule to drive the pin (get a good auto pin punch), heat andremovethe ferrule, clean, apply new ferrule cement, and, using the alcohol lamp,pressthe ferrule back on.Best regards,ReedP.S. - Ferrule cement is really easy to work with and permits easyremoval later.We have had many discussions regarding adhesives for ferrules, check thearchivesbefore deciding for yourself on bonding technology.P.P.S. - Edwards would sometimes shim the cane with brown paper beforeinstallingthe ferrule. Watch for this. from maxs@geocities.co.jp Sun Jan 3 11:29:58 1999 (8.9.1-1.1G/8.9.1-GEOCITIES1.1) with ESMTP id CAA06861; Mon, 4 Jan1999 02:29:46 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Truncated or Standard Ferrules???? Hello Rick, I am making truncated super swiss type ferrules for my own use usinglathe. I put my opinion embeded in your questions below; Max Rick Crenshaw wrote: List, I know that this was discussed 6 or 8 months ago, but I'm hoping forupdated information (perhaps more have tried truncated ferrules sincethen). I am thinking of using truncated ferrules on 3 pc rods. I'dlove to hear responses on the following: 1) What is your opinion of truncated ferrules vs standard ferrules? Truncated is lighter in weight, so doesn't affect to rod action toomuch, especially on 3pc rods. When using longer ferrule on 3pc rod and when the rod makes an ark,ferrule portions do not bend naturally. It means the rod blank may havesome strange stress near the foots of ferrules. In some cases, holding rod blank in shorter length within female ferrulemay endure against bending moment more than holding longer length ofblank in the ferrule. When a rod bends very much, serration of shorter ferrule may have morepressure of bending. So I turn the serration part with taper (thick to thin gradually)instead of step down. It is easier to have a break otherwise atserration portion when the rod bend with a huge fish. 2) If you DO use truncated ferrules, is there a rod length / weightlimit to which you would restrict their use? I do not know the limit of weight. When I use truncated on next #6rods, I will make the wall of female ferrule a littler thicker.I have no problem using truncated on 8' #4 3pieces (Jim Payne 200) and7'6" #4/#5 3pieces (Shenandoah Supreme). 3) Have you ever had a bad experience with truncated ferrules? No bad experience yet. 4) What advantages have you experienced using truncated ferrules? It is easier to make. Drilling a deep hole is a big matter on lathe. Truncated has shorter length of hole so it is easier to drill. Thanks in advance. I think there are others out here who wouldappreciate the advice and opinions of you experience rodmakers outthere. Rick C. -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from Anachemrpo@aol.com Sun Jan 3 11:44:26 1999 Subject: Re: Ferrule click and fishing rod In a message dated 99-01-03 10:53:25 EST, dpeaston@wzrd.com writes: Thanks, I should have looked there first. I dug out my copy and it seems tocover it nicely. Thanks to all who responded. I'll investigate it a little closer and tell youwhat I decide. Russ Lavigne from saltwein@swbell.net Sun Jan 3 12:10:28 1999 MAA19040 Subject: test nmsg from fr.keulen@wxs.nl Sun Jan 3 12:51:52 1999 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA62BC;Sun, 3 Jan 1999 19:51:03 +0100 Subject: Re: Thoughts for a slow list Turbotrk@aol.com wrote: Hey guys, has anyone tried making cork grips out of wine bottle corks. Iwas wondering if this had been experimented with. I had two ideas. Onewasto cut the cork the way we cut bamboo and glueing them together. Afterplaying with a few corks (guess what day they appeared on my workbench) I sawthat the diameter would be about 1.5" if you use the 60 degree method. Thisseems to small for handles. The other way I thought of was to cut thecorkinto retangular pieces and glue them up in a staggerd fashion. I knowthat Icould produce any size and lenghth with this method but all those gluelineswould detract from it. Second question: Should we store our bamboo rods in a sealed tube withthosede-humidifying crystals to keep them as dry as possible. Seems thatmoistureis our biggest enemy if we want a crisp casting rod. Happy New Year to all and oh yeaGO VOLSStuart S. Miller Just a thought that struck me when I read your remark about usingwinebottlecorks; has anyone ever tried birch bark for this purpose? I know that thisstuffis used in Scandinavia to make knife grips. A friend of mine has seen itand saidit looks alright. Maybe an idea to get around buying scarce and overpriced,quality cork rings. Rens Oosthoek from anglport@con2.com Sun Jan 3 13:16:47 1999 Subject: Re: Thoughts for a slow list Rens,Hmmmm, very interesting....We'd better be on the lookout for SOMETHINGbefore the cork rivals the ferrules as ersatz jewellry in price! I don'tlike paying half a reelseat for a handle.Art At 07:46 PM 1/3/99 +0100, F. Keulen wrote: Turbotrk@aol.com wrote: Hey guys, has anyone tried making cork grips out of wine bottle corks. Iwas wondering if this had been experimented with. I had two ideas. Onewasto cut the cork the way we cut bamboo and glueing them together. Afterplaying with a few corks (guess what day they appeared on my workbench)I sawthat the diameter would be about 1.5" if you use the 60 degree method.Thisseems to small for handles. The other way I thought of was to cut thecorkinto retangular pieces and glue them up in a staggerd fashion. I knowthat Icould produce any size and lenghth with this method but all those gluelineswould detract from it. Second question: Should we store our bamboo rods in a sealed tube withthosede-humidifying crystals to keep them as dry as possible. Seems thatmoistureis our biggest enemy if we want a crisp casting rod. Happy New Year to all and oh yeaGO VOLSStuart S. Miller Just a thought that struck me when I read your remark about usingwinebottlecorks; has anyone ever tried birch bark for this purpose? I know that thisstuffis used in Scandinavia to make knife grips. A friend of mine has seen itand saidit looks alright. Maybe an idea to get around buying scarce and overpriced,quality cork rings. Rens Oosthoek from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Jan 3 13:44:12 1999 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Rod tapers Darryl and the list.I've had a few requests for some of the tapers I use, so here goes:8' for 7 wgt: 0"-.066, 5"-.084, 10"-.100, 15"-.118, 20"- .134,25"-.150, 30"-.166----11/64ths ferrule-----35"-.184, 40"-.200, 45"- .216,50"-.234, 55"-.250, 60"-.266------18/64ths ferrule------65"-.284, 70"- .300,75"-.316, 80"-.334. 85"-.350, 96"- .354 straight line taper 71/2' for 5wgt: 0"-.062, 5"-.084, 10"-.096, 15"-.108, 20"-.122,25"-.136, 30"-.150, 35"-.164, 40"-.180, 45"-.192, 50"-.208, 55"-.220,60"-.242, 65"- .268, 70"-.282, 75"-.304, 90"-.310. 13/64ths ferrule straightline taper 71/2' for 5wgt: 0"-.065, 5"-.082, 10"-.102, 15"-.118, 20"-.134,25"-.150, 30"-.165, 35"-.184, 40"-.201, 45"-.219, 50"-.234, 55"-.242,60"-.255, 65"- .262, 70"-.272, 75"-.282, 90"-.282 Shadow graph of PYPara 15 71/2' for a 3wgt 0"-.062, 5"-.064, 10"-.083, 15"-.100, 20"-.116,25"-.130, 30"-.142, 35"-.158, 40"-.172, 45"-.184, 50"-.198, 55"-.212,60"-.224, 65"- .238, 70"-.252, 75"-.266, 80"-.280, 90"-,280 Modified from a7' 9" 7' for 5 or 6 wgt. 0"-.063, 5"-.080, 10"-.100, 15"-.116, 20"-.130,25"-.143, 30"-.156, 35"-.169, 40"-.181, 45"-.195, 50"-.207, 55"-.218,60"-.231, 65"- .145, 70"-.260, 75"-.290, 84"-.298 I use Urac 185 and flame my rods, usually with no extra heattreatment. If I build a light colored cane rod I heat treat 15 min @375 degF. Hank W. from cattanac@wmis.net Sun Jan 3 13:47:09 1999 t2.wmis.net (8.8.5/SCO5) withSMTP id TAA19722; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 19:51:04 GMT Subject: Re: Truncated or Standard Ferrules???? Rick -The tradition is to use truncated ferrules on 3 piece rods - many of ushave done it for years (at both the upper and lower ferrule) - and there aresome of us that use them on lighter (#3 weight or less) 2 piece rods aswell. The only sacrafice is that of a shorter seating dimension.FYI - today most folks prefer 3 piece rods. One of the reasons is thatthe airlines are clamping down on carry on baggage dimensions - a 7'6" 3piece rod tube will walk on to most airlines without question.Personally I have used truncated ferrules from the 8/64 size to the17/64 size without ever having a problem - my personal 6' 3" 2 piece hastruncated ferrules and after 16 years of abuse the ferrules might getchanged this winter - the problem goes back to not have having beenproperlyfitted years ago.They are a bit cheaper as well Snowed in in CasnoviaWayne from ljrp@penn.com Sun Jan 3 15:02:36 1999 Subject: Re: Ferrule click and fishing rod Hey guys I heard Wayne C is going to the fly fishing show in Maryland onJan 16 17th reed wrote: Russ,"Meaning and significance of clicking". I like that.First you need to further identify the problem. Your email doesn'tmake clearwhether the clicking is from a loose NS/Cane connection or from a loosefit withthe male ferrule. A simple test would be to hold the butt section by theferruleand wag it up and down. If you don't hear/feel the click then it wouldindicateeither the male ferrule was loose in the female, or the male is loose onthe wood(as opposed to "a male loose in the woods" for which you should consultTonyYoung). A candle stub will permit you to get another year's fishing out ofit, ifthe male is loose in the female.If the female is loose on the wood, you have two alternatives: Chairlokorremoval-and replacement.1/ Chairlok - The F-18 will have top quality waterproof ferrules, soyouwould need to remove the windings. Heat the ferrule over an alcohol lampuntilunpleasantly hot. Saturate the area around the serrations with theChairlok.Wiggle the ferrule slightly in all directions, giving space for theChairlok toenter. Wait several hours and test for clicking. 2/ Removal - If you must remove the female, you will probably finditnecessary after removing (driving in or pulling out) the pin, to heat theferrule.Old ferrule cement can be pretty tough, but it softens nicely under heat..Don'tworry about replacing the pin, IMHO, the pin is only there as a lastresort. Ijust removed and replaced all the ferrules on a 7' 4/2 valise rod. It tookonly 15minutes per ferrule to drive the pin (get a good auto pin punch), heat andremovethe ferrule, clean, apply new ferrule cement, and, using the alcohol lamp,pressthe ferrule back on.Best regards,ReedP.S. - Ferrule cement is really easy to work with and permits easyremoval later.We have had many discussions regarding adhesives for ferrules, checkthe archivesbefore deciding for yourself on bonding technology.P.P.S. - Edwards would sometimes shim the cane with brown paperbefore installingthe ferrule. Watch for this. from santiago@ricochet.net Sun Jan 3 16:09:37 1999 Subject: tom morgan hand mill hello all, i have a tom morgan hand mill for sale with a ton of extras. pleaseemail me directly for details. santiago@ricochet.net from LUU@NMDHST.CC.NIH.GOV Sun Jan 3 16:22:16 1999 Subject: Lathe Hello List,Are there any way we could fit the ferrules without using a lathe? I amjust trying to get aound from buying a lathe. Thanks.Andy from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Jan 3 16:40:19 1999 Subject: Re: Thoughts for a slow list Sturat Did not see a reply to below - guess we were too busy drinking ourfavoritebeverages. Really during the winter it or getting ready for winter - now that itis here - toclean up your gear and store it properly for a period of time that it willnot be used. I would take you rod out of the tube and hang the bag with the rod upin a warm dry place. I would wipe the rod down first and apply a bit of yourfavorite paste wax if desired. It is also a good time to clean and service your lines andreels. If youhave silk lines - or even with plastic - strip off the reel - clean the lineand put in a paper bag - close / label it and it will be ready for next spring. In yourspare time youcan make a few leaders and such. By spring you are ready to do. I would notadvisekeeping a rod stored for a prolong period in a metal tube - especially ifyou do not remember if it was dry or not when you closed it up. Chris Second question: Should we store our bamboo rods in a sealed tube withthosede-humidifying crystals to keep them as dry as possible. Seems thatmoistureis our biggest enemy if we want a crisp casting rod. Regards Chris from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Jan 3 16:44:28 1999 "LUU@NMDHST.CC.NIH.GOV" Subject: Re: Lathe Andy Just use the mill bastard file and take a couple of swipes at each corner - work your way around the blank slowly and you will get a goodfit. Ihave my students fit the ferrules this way (for same reason youmentioned) sothey can do it at home. They have gotten very good results and not many problems. Chris On Sun, 3 Jan 1999 17:23:52 -0400, ANDREW LUU wrote: Hello List,Are there any way we could fit the ferrules without using a lathe? I amjust trying to get aound from buying a lathe. Thanks.Andy from Anachemrpo@aol.com Sun Jan 3 16:59:21 1999 Subject: Ferrule click on F-18 Well, I went back and palyed with the clicking Edwards f-18 and I believethatthe male ferrule in the second section is tapping the inside of the femaleferrule ("This is a problem?" he said.) of the butt section . I also went back and looked at Mike Sinclairs rod restoration book andfoundhis reference to this type of problem. I'm going to think about it a bit more, and play with the rod a bit more,before I go whacking it with pieces of lead or fitting it into the chuck of alathe. Thanks again to all who replied. Your semi-realtime input is a big help forthis type of question, as opposed to having to remember that it's in a bookonthe bookshelf next to me. ;-) Sometimes it the "forest for the trees" thing... Russ Lavigne from teekay35@interlynx.net Sun Jan 3 18:05:31 1999 Subject: Re: Thoughts for a slow list I am experimenting with cedar bark (mulch from my garden) to make grips. Got the idea from some cherry bark samples someone put out on display atRoscoe. Haven't put this on a rod yet, but the sample I've made looks likeit will function well. The finished color is red/cedar and wouldcomplement a dark rod. ----------From: F. Keulen Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Thoughts for a slow listDate: Sunday, January 03, 1999 1:46 PM Turbotrk@aol.com wrote: Hey guys, has anyone tried making cork grips out of wine bottle corks.Iwas wondering if this had been experimented with. I had two ideas. One wasto cut the cork the way we cut bamboo and glueing them together. Afterplaying with a few corks (guess what day they appeared on my workbench) I sawthat the diameter would be about 1.5" if you use the 60 degree method. Thisseems to small for handles. The other way I thought of was to cut thecorkinto retangular pieces and glue them up in a staggerd fashion. I knowthat Icould produce any size and lenghth with this method but all those gluelineswould detract from it. Second question: Should we store our bamboo rods in a sealed tubewiththosede-humidifying crystals to keep them as dry as possible. Seems thatmoistureis our biggest enemy if we want a crisp casting rod. Happy New Year to all and oh yeaGO VOLSStuart S. Miller Just a thought that struck me when I read your remark about usingwinebottlecorks; has anyone ever tried birch bark for this purpose? I know thatthis stuffis used in Scandinavia to make knife grips. A friend of mine has seen itand saidit looks alright. Maybe an idea to get around buying scarce andoverpriced,quality cork rings. Rens Oosthoek from Canerods@aol.com Sun Jan 3 18:27:58 1999 Subject: Re: Ferrule click and fishing rod In a message dated 1/2/99 4:07:51 PM Pacific Standard Time,Anachemrpo@aol.comwrites: I have a Edwards Bristol Built f-18, 8.5', three piece that is in reallygoodshape except the female ferrule in the first section has a click to it. I would like to fish this rod, and since it is otherwise in good originalshape I'd rather not compromise the originality by taking the wraps andferrule off to fix the click, unless I'm endangering the rod and justasking Advice on the meaning and significance of clicking at the ferrule to rodintegrity is sought. Thank you in advance, Russ Lavigne Russ, If the ferrule has a pin through it, maybe try removing it (pin) andinjectingsome thinned epoxy into the gap between the ferrule and cane beforereinstalling the pin. NOTE: I've never tried this with a ferrule. I did inject thinned epoxy underabaitcaster reelseat. (through the cork) Worked just fine. Don Burns from BarbRain@aol.com Sun Jan 3 18:46:17 1999 Subject: Re: Immortal Tapers To date I have built several of the 5' 6" one piece versions. By stretchingthe butt three inches and then by six inches, 5' 9" and 6' variations wereproduced. One of the 5' 9" models has become my constant companion. Athreeweight is on my list as a someday project. As a small stream do- everythingtype rod, it will make you smile. Yes Bill, for diversity ( I'm not oftenpoliticly correct) it should be considered. George Rainville PSPerhaps as a five side. from jczimny@dol.net Sun Jan 3 19:13:46 1999 Subject: Re: Lathe Sure, just spin them on some very fine abrasive until they fit. You don'tneed a lathe for this. But the use of one does speed the process. If you arepatient, all will go well.John Z ANDREW LUU wrote: Hello List,Are there any way we could fit the ferrules without using a lathe? I amjust trying to get aound from buying a lathe. Thanks.Andy from mrj@aa.net Sun Jan 3 20:01:19 1999 Sun, 3 Jan 1999 18:00:59 -0800 0800 "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Subject: RE: Spline / spine Terry,I straighten my rods after I get them out of the glue but I still (always) have one side that will droop more than the rest. I have a feeling that when I place this droop either up or down, (as I said I prefer down) that it also becomes the straightest side of the rod.Note: my method of using a vibration test to place my guides, as near as I can tell, belonged to the late Dawn Holbrook. A rod builder in the Northwest.Martin R. Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Spline / spine Martin,generally the rod action in fly fishing is in an eliptical pattern. Fromcasting to mending line to setting hooks is not a mechanical one plane action.I put my guides on what looks the straightest when sighting down the rod.Icannot remember any complaints about the guides being 60 degs or so off!T. Ackland Martin Jensen wrote: Jon,I locate my guides by placing the butt end of my blank section on a sturdytable and then bouncing my finger up and down on the rod section about twoor three inches out past the table. I do this in turn, with each flat facedown on the table. I look at the tip of the section, and on one (usuallytwo) flat there will be a noticeable difference in how the tip bouncesaround. The tip will start to bounce up and down like you are pushing therod, but then it will start to rotate and bounce around in a circularpattern. (I place my guides on the flat that has the closest bounce to anup and down motion that I can find. Usually, if you get a fairlyperpendicular bounce on one flat you will get similar results on theopposite flat also. Then I hold the rod section straight out and sight downthe length of it. I used to rotate the rod so that it had the least droopusing only the two flats that had the best up and down bounce, and place myguides on the opposite side. I have reversed this procedure simply becauseI like the way the rod casts better.)All this indicates to me that there are stronger or weaker sides to thebamboo as you have mentioned. Or at least maybe density differences (whichI doubt). I don't look for a spline in the traditional sense but my methodstill finds the casting plane that is most natural to a forward andbackward cast.Martin R. Jensen -----Original Message-----From: Jon Lintvet [SMTP:jlintvet@clarityconnect.com]Sent: Saturday, January 02, 1999 8:31 AM Subject: Re: Spline / spine No big deal...I just believe since we are using natural materials, andnothing is ever perfect, a spline could be found. from a planingstandpoint, all it would take is a couple thousandths over/under on onespline over the entire length of a rod. I don't know about everyone else,but I only look at the dimensions in 5" increments for the most part.Thereis a whole lot of cane in between those 5" marks. Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod Company)140 E. Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) 277-4510www.munrorodco.com-----Original Message----- From: Terence Ackland Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Friday, January 01, 1999 9:35 PMSubject: Re: Spline / spine If there is so much variance in cane what is the point of a taper databaseorrod design software?I can understand there being a difference in different species of bambooandperhaps very small differences from culm to culm. I cannot bepersuadedintobelieving there is a difference from one side of a culm to the other.I have never found a soft side on my fishing poles. I control moisturecontent,heat treatment and glue curing very, very carefully.I just call it as I find it, sorry if it does not coincide with your viewsandexperiences.T.Ackland Jon Lintvet wrote: No way...We are dealing with a natural material. I have a better shotatcatching a 20+ trout (not in my lifetime) than believing for a secondthereare no weak/strong spots in every rod built. Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod Company)140 E. Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) 277-4510www.munrorodco.com-----Original Message----- From: Terence Ackland Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Thursday, December 31, 1998 1:21 PMSubject: Re: Spline / spine Max,John Alden Knight, a famous US FF journalist, fly caster and roddesigner.( I thinkhe helped in the design of the parabolic action) once remarked that youcould notfind a high side on a Garrison stick. A stick is a blank sectionwithoutguides. Onceyou put guides in you have introduced an imbalance.The accuracy that is possible with a plane and formers it is possibletoproduce TerryMax Satoh wrote: Terry, Thanks for opinion. It is especially right for low weight (#1,#2) rod at very thin tipportion to kink when rolled down. So in summary, I understood this issue like below; As Paul Lyon suggested, guides may be better to be put on the weakestflat (of-course inside of the ark) for lower wt or slow action rod.Iwant to use Paul's Spline finding method next time.And may be better to be put on the strongest flat (inside ofark) forfighting rod like for stealhead or for a poor back caster like me.(probably for more weight rod of #4 or up). Any further comments? Max Terence Ackland wrote: Rods built from one culm do not have a spine if planed accuratelyandthefinished sections are absolutely straight and without twists.If you roll a section that is not straight the 'jump' you feel isthekink. The'weak' side is actually the concave of the bow. Try it.T. Ackland David wrote: Dear Max To do the best job for your customer, it helps to know how he/shewill beusing the rod. Putting the strongest side on the "belly" willhelpthe rodpull sinking or sink-tip lines out for the backcast. It willalsohelp setthe hook in hard- jawed fishes. Any rod I suspect of being forSteelheadwill get this treatment. I always try a rod with the guidestapedonbefore wrapping them permanently. Sometimes I do this for a fewweeks,trying different combinations (most of my rods have threesections) most satisfying effect. Davy Paul, and all Paul thank you for response. What I questioned seems a little different. Yes, I understandthewayyou take.The method you mentioned is to find the weakest flat in mywordingandput guides on the opposite flat.(this is the weakest flat in my definition.) It is the oppositeoftheweakest flat and does not mean the strongest flat (IMHO). I am bending each section by pressing with my parm and findingthestrongest kick back from the blank, then I make the strongestflatupward of my rod (spline). I put guides on the opposite flatofthisspline.(this is the strongest flat in my definition.) It alsodoesnotmean the guide surface is the weakest, but weaker for sure.It assures that the upper surface of the rod while castingtowardback,is strongest. But if there is a weakest flat next or next tonexttothe strongest flat, the rod will not show the guide surface upwhenitis leaned down. Is my method incorrect? What is the true theory? Appreciate your advices. Max Paul Lyon wrote: Max: I was always taught to spine a rod thus: Stand the section of the rod you want to spine up perpendiculrtothefloorwith the tip end down. With your index finger on the butt endofthesection, press down toward the floor. Whichever way it bendsreveals thespine. I was always taught to put the guides on the inside ofthecurve -the strong side, as you call it. But if you want a stiffer,strongeraction, put the guides on the outside of the curve. That'swhatIwastaught. Of course, I could be full of it. I prefer putting the guides on the inside of the curvebecause,Ireason,that's the way the rod wants to bend and you should use thatstructuraltendency in service of the forward cast. There again, I couldbefull ofit. But that's my theory. Hope I helped. Paul Lyonpaullyon@epix.net Max Satoh wrote: Dear list, Please advise how I should decide the flat on which guidesarelocated. There are two thoughts. 1. One is to find the strongest elasticity flat and putguideson theopposit side.2. Two is to find the weakest elasticity flat and put guidesonthesurface. I am taking positon of 1. above. It can pick up lines withthestrongest tention of the rod. So does it when a big fish ishooked.But there is some funky guy in my friends who takes positionof2 andplace my rod tip on the back of a chair and put the butt onthefloor.And he criticized that the guides are not facing upward ontheleaningrod on the chair. (as weakest flat always face up when arodisleanedon with angle.) The 1. and 2 above not always lies on opposite sides to eachother.Thestrongest and weakest flats sometimes lies just inneighbour,side byside. In such case, the flat which has guides does not faceup. Which is the best way? Or any other way of determining theguidesurface? Max --Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHomePage(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 --Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHomePage(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from dmanders@telusplanet.net Sun Jan 3 20:39:58 1999 don") by eeyore.eon.netwith SMTP id ; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 19:39:46 -0700 Subject: Test - please ignore from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Sun Jan 3 20:53:51 1999 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id PAA05196; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 15:53:17 +1300 Subject: Re: Spline / spine Anyone thinking of following Tony's advise can be sure of a bed in one ofthe better trout areas in New zealand if they need it . Iank PS Tony , I was tempted to point out that the law in NZ until 5 years agosaid that any trout under 15" had to be put back as they were " undersize", but I thought our USA friends may be upset . At 12:57 PM 2/01/99 +0800, Tony Young wrote:Geeez guys,if all you want is to catch a measly 20"er on fly get on a plane and getthe to NZ and while you're there take a few Salmon while you're there.In fact try for the Big Three. A 20+" trout, Salmon and a Red Deer in aday. I've done it the hard way ie. without a guide. It's like I've writen before with the $US/$Aussie, $US/$Kiwi as it is it'scomparable with placing a sure thing bet, you know you'll get a 50%returnon your money! Tony On Fri, 1 Jan 1999, Jon Lintvet wrote: No way...We are dealing with a natural material. I have a better shot atcatching a 20+ trout (not in my lifetime) than believing for a secondthereare no weak/strong spots in every rod built. Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod Company)140 E. Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) 277-4510www.munrorodco.com-----Original Message----- From: Terence Ackland Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Thursday, December 31, 1998 1:21 PMSubject: Re: Spline / spine Max,John Alden Knight, a famous US FF journalist, fly caster and roddesigner.(