from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Feb 1 00:32:23 1999 Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:29:48 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: RE: Powell rods The most elastic shellac is made by mixing the flakes with gum turpentinerather than mineral turpentine. Tony On Sun, 31 Jan 1999, J. C. Zimny wrote: I don't know which Powell you mean. But, I have it from Walton and Pres both that the finest white shellac was used. The linseed oil was just alubricant for theapplication of the shellac. Pure, de- waxed blonde shellac is highly elasticand waterresistant. It should provide about the same vapor barrier as most non-epoxy varnish. Alongwith a coat of wax, it might even be marginally better. Of course, unlikeoil/resin mixtures,it does not have much solvent resistance.I don't know what E. C. used.John Z -----Original Message-----From: A.J.Thramer [SMTP:thramer@presys.com]Sent: Friday, January 29, 1999 10:07 PM Subject: Powell rods Were(are) not many Powell rods finished with linseed oil? If, as thedata suggests linseed oil is WORSE than NO finish at all are not thevast majority of Powell rods junky noodles? When data does not corellate with obsevation it makes me want to dig alittle deeper for accurate data.A.J.Thramer /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html Always fish with a bamboo rod, drink good wine and sail.Life is too short. /***********************************************************************/ from jfoster@gte.net Mon Feb 1 01:14:40 1999 Subject: archives mac-creator="4D4F5353" Chris think i got garrison straight??? andy royer's address is up to date asis GEM's new homepage jer from saltwein@swbell.net Mon Feb 1 06:35:19 1999 GAA16452 Subject: Re: Carnauba Larry Blan wrote: To go along with the current finish thread, thought I'd throw this out.Zymol has a pretty fair section on carnauba, if anyone is interested (juststay clear of the $1200.00 wax). Ran across this when I had to purchaseoneof their products recently for a show vehicle. It did have a better shineand depth of finish than the products we normally use. No interest, etc. http://www.zymol.com/tech.htm Larry, Are you currently using one of these waxes on your rods? What do youthink of it? Which one are you using? What is the difference in the twoprice schedules? TIA. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from jjohnso4@bellsouth.net Mon Feb 1 07:17:46 1999 IAA12988 Subject: Re: filler for realseats prior to coating with poly At 05:12 PM 1/31/99 EST, Dave LeClair wrote: If some of the crevasses are too large for this type offinishing, fill the crevasses with a good super glue and spraythe glue with an accelerator to harden the glue. Sand the gluedown and dip in your polyurethane as you normally do. The "gel" type super glues also make a good filler for small imperfectionsin wood. Later,Johnny----------------------------------------------Johnny JohnsonLilburn, GA from hhholland@erols.com Mon Feb 1 07:30:38 1999 Subject: Re: Reel Seat Wood Insert Try http://www.waterloowood.com/wssi/Hank H. -----Original Message----- Subject: Reel Seat Wood Insert Guys/Gals, A company sells acrylic impregnated wood inserts for reel seats. Good stuff - got some last month. http://www.waterloowood/wssi/ No commercial interest to me etc. Don from harry37@epix.net Mon Feb 1 08:12:20 1999 SMTP id JAA09587; Subject: Re: filler for realseats prior to coating with poly Johnny Johnson wrote: At 05:12 PM 1/31/99 EST, Dave LeClair wrote: If some of the crevasses are too large for this type offinishing, fill the crevasses with a good super glue and spraythe glue with an accelerator to harden the glue. Sand the gluedown and dip in your polyurethane as you normally do. The "gel" type super glues also make a good filler for smallimperfectionsin wood. Later,Johnny----------------------------------------------Johnny JohnsonLilburn, GA Epoxies fill little worm holes and other imperfections nicely and willmachine just like the wood--in dark woods you can't spot the differenceunless you're looking for it. GregGreg from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us Mon Feb 1 08:24:10 1999 (envelope- from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us) (envelope- from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us) 1.21);1 Feb 99 09:25:48 EST EST Subject: Rod Marking Hello All, Just rec. BBFR in the mail. The first letter from a gentleman inSweden made some points that I thought were very interesting. Henotes that when using someone else's taper on your rod, some type ofnotation could be mentioned to give credit where credit is due. SinceI have not built my first bamboo from scratch yet, I was wondering... Does anybody do this? What info do you supply on the rod? Are youconsistent with every piece you build? I have refinished a few rods,trying to keep them in original condition. Now suppose I did such anice job (I said suppose!) that no one could tell it was refinished. In theory, I could put it on the market as a Mint/Unfished rod formuch more $$$ than it is really worth. Am I obligated to make alittle notation on the rod to mention "Refinished by J. Mulvey, Jan.1999" or should I leave it as is? How about turning a 3 pc 9 wtMontague into a 2 pc 5 wt banty. Now there are no markings. Do I havethe right to mark this as I wish? I think not! With the year 2000 onthe horizon, does anyone mark their rods with the date? Two digits orfour? Come the next century, when your creations are 100 years old,some folks will be wondering if your beauty was created in 1899 or1999. So... How do you mark your rods? On a side note, concerning that excellent magazine, I had an idea thatsomeone may want to pass on to the Honorable Mr Metcalfe. How about acenterfold? A three page fold out of someones handiwork up close andpersonal. The little 2"x3" photos of rods do no justice at all! Have a great day,Joe MulveyJoseph Mulvey Network Engineer Information Technology Department City Of Newton, MA 1000 Commonwealth Avenue Newton Centre, MA 02459 Phone 617-552-7085 Fax 617-552-7036 from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Feb 1 08:28:06 1999 GAA29154; (5.5.2407.0) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu,"'jczimny@dol.net'" Subject: RE: Powell rods I made a varnish, for a mandolin I made, out of seedlac and poppy oil and acouple of otherresins. Seedlac contains wax and the poppy oil made it pretty elastic. It'sbeen on 20 yearsnow and is real tough and shows no crazing whats so ever. The secretingredient that I usedwas propolis, the stuff honey bees glue their hives together with and inthe condition thatit comes out of the hive you have to chisel it off with a cold chisel. ----------From: J. C. Zimny[SMTP:jczimny@dol.net] Sent: Sunday, January 31, 1999 6:03 PM Subject: RE: Powell rods I don't know which Powell you mean. But, I have it from Walton and Presboth that thefinest white shellac was used. The linseed oil was just a lubricant for theapplication ofthe shellac. Pure, de-waxed blonde shellac is highly elastic and waterresistant. It shouldprovide about the same vapor barrier as most non-epoxy varnish. Alongwith a coat of wax, itmight even be marginally better. Of course, unlike oil/resin mixtures, itdoes not have muchsolvent resistance.I don't know what E. C. used.John Z -----Original Message-----From: A.J.Thramer [SMTP:thramer@presys.com]Sent: Friday, January 29, 1999 10:07 PM Subject: Powell rods Were(are) not many Powell rods finished with linseed oil? If, as thedata suggests linseed oil is WORSE than NO finish at all are not thevast majority of Powell rods junky noodles? When data does not corellate with obsevation it makes me want to dig alittle deeper for accurate data.A.J.Thramer from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Feb 1 08:31:24 1999 (5.5.2407.0) Subject: RE: archives Andy just left for China to buy a new shipment of cane ----------From: Jerry Foster[SMTP:jfoster@gte.net] Sent: Sunday, January 31, 1999 11:14 PM Subject: archives Chris think i got garrison straight??? andy royer's address is up to date asis GEM's new homepage jer from rodgers@jessie.nor.nuwc.navy.mil Mon Feb 1 08:38:24 1999 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Subject: Re: Lie-Nielsen Planes Bob, I am interested in acquiring one of the L-N 9 1/2 planes. I do have onequestion though. Doesn't the L-N 9 1/2 plane have an adjustable slot in thesole? Im I right to assume from you email that this version will have asmaller adjustable slot than the average L-N 9 1/2? thanks,Dan klAt 06:17 PM 1/29/99, Robert Milardo wrote:I am working on a deal with L-N to purchase a bunch of 9 1/2 planes witha.005 slot milled into the sole, and 2 blades. The cost will be about$25.00 off retail, or a total of $175.00 plus S&S. (Retail is $150 for theplane, $25.00 for the extra blade, and $25.00 for the milled slot. S&S isshipping and a wee bit of stout.) I think these are the finest planesavailable, but then not everyone needs the finest. If you are unfamiliarwith the details, ck out their web site at lie-nielsen.com. If you'reinterested let me know within a week or so. This will happen fast. (Sorrycan't ship outside US.) --Bob.Robert M. Milardo, Ph.D.17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581-3128 from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Feb 1 08:48:49 1999 (5.5.2407.0) Stopped over at Daryll Whiteheads while I was on vacation and saw thenew Bellinger binderand it was absolutely amazing. Daryll glued and bound up a tip for a 7'6"rod and it came outalmost arrow straight. I can see why he retired his millward binder. Alsotook a look at hisnew agate guides, very beautiful stuff. He told me that Andy Royer wasleaving for china thisweek to hand select a new shipment of cane. I have no bonding with eitherone of them exceptas friends and fellow rod makers. from jefffly@choice.net Mon Feb 1 08:55:11 1999 JAA06495; Subject: Re: Rod Marking Joe, you bring up several interesting points, but the one that concerns memost is that we haven't yet looked at our rods as having the Y2K bug. With your networking skills, can you recommend a program to rid thisbug? Joe wrote: With the year 2000 onthe horizon, does anyone mark their rods with the date? Two digits orfour? Come the next century, when your creations are 100 years old,some folks will be wondering if your beauty was created in 1899 or1999. So... How do you mark your rods? Joseph MulveyNetwork EngineerInformation Technology DepartmentCity Of Newton, MA1000 Commonwealth AvenueNewton Centre, MA 02459Phone 617-552-7085Fax 617-552-7036 from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us Mon Feb 1 08:59:28 1999 (envelope- from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us) 1.21);1 Feb 99 10:01:03 EST EST Subject: Re: Rod Marking Joe, you bring up several interesting points, but the one that concernsmemost is that we haven't yet looked at our rods as having the Y2K bug. With your networking skills, can you recommend a program to rid thisbug?Thank you. The first step in Y2K resolution is testing. So send me your rods and I will verifiy that they work!JoeJoseph Mulvey Network Engineer Information Technology Department City Of Newton, MA 1000 Commonwealth Avenue Newton Centre, MA 02459 Phone 617-552- 7085 Fax 617-552-7036 from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Feb 1 09:12:29 1999 Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:10:47 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: Rod Marking Joe, I think you should always give credit to the designer on the rod. Thedesigner created the rod's soul after all, making the body is easy.My only concern is what the designer would think of the effort. Being in the computer game you'd understand it's a bit like obtainingsource code and altering it *just a little* bit. There comes a point whereyou may depart from the original enough to say it's yours but a few snipshere and there dosn't alter ownership even if it's only a case ofacknowlagement. Regarding dating the rod. If you make it too easy for collectors theywouldn't have as much fun. Let them worry about it. Tony On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Joe Mulvey wrote: Hello All, Just rec. BBFR in the mail. The first letter from a gentleman inSweden made some points that I thought were very interesting. Henotes that when using someone else's taper on your rod, some type ofnotation could be mentioned to give credit where credit is due. SinceI have not built my first bamboo from scratch yet, I was wondering... Does anybody do this? What info do you supply on the rod? Are youconsistent with every piece you build? I have refinished a few rods, /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb? A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from BThoman@neonsoft.com Mon Feb 1 09:33:10 1999 Subject: RE: Carnauba I've used carnauba wax with Wayne's bees wax paste and it works great. Thetrouble is that it's much harder than bees wax and harder to mix. I foundsome in a powdered form at Highland Hardware and I think Woodcraft alsocarries it. The powdered wax mixes quite easily per Wayne's instructions. Brian ThomanThe Chattahoochee River Rod CompanyParker, Coloradohttp://www.bambooflyrods.com(303) 805-5733 -----Original Message-----From: Larry Blan [SMTP:lblan@provide.net]Sent: Sunday, January 31, 1999 9:57 PM Subject: Carnauba To go along with the current finish thread, thought I'd throw this out.Zymol has a pretty fair section on carnauba, if anyone is interested (juststay clear of the $1200.00 wax). Ran across this when I had to purchaseoneof their products recently for a show vehicle. It did have a better shineand depth of finish than the products we normally use. No interest, etc. http://www.zymol.com/tech.htm from rrappe@wirelessnorth.com Mon Feb 1 09:42:14 1999 Joe Mulvey Subject: RE: Rod Marking Just back into rod making and restoration after 20 years, I recently had aseries of e-mails with Mike Sinclair on this topic and got comments frommany who got copied. There seems to be a general consensus that it is oktocredit the originator so long as the rod is wrapped and marked in such awaythat a future unscrupulous dealer can't pass the rod off as an original.I'm still struggling with just how to accomplish it without writing anovelon the shaft though. Mike, are you reading this? I re-marked those 4 Phillipson blanks alongthese lines: 7'-4wt. "Phillipson Impreg. blank"/Orvis ferrule #89 by Rappe'. A couple of my scratch rods with tapers from the Garrison/Charmichaelbook from 20 years ago say: "Modified 212E taper #XX by Rappe' " figuringeveryone in the know would recognize the Garrison number without theneed touse the name. Hope this helps. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Rod Marking Joe, I think you should always give credit to the designer on the rod. Thedesigner created the rod's soul after all, making the body is easy.My only concern is what the designer would think of the effort. Being in the computer game you'd understand it's a bit like obtainingsource code and altering it *just a little* bit. There comes a point whereyou may depart from the original enough to say it's yours but a few snipshere and there dosn't alter ownership even if it's only a case ofacknowlagement. Regarding dating the rod. If you make it too easy for collectors theywouldn't have as much fun. Let them worry about it. Tony On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Joe Mulvey wrote: Hello All, Just rec. BBFR in the mail. The first letter from a gentleman inSweden made some points that I thought were very interesting. Henotes that when using someone else's taper on your rod, some type ofnotation could be mentioned to give credit where credit is due. SinceI have not built my first bamboo from scratch yet, I was wondering... Does anybody do this? What info do you supply on the rod? Are youconsistent with every piece you build? I have refinished a few rods, /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb? A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from rrappe@wirelessnorth.com Mon Feb 1 09:53:51 1999 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Carnauba I have not read much more than the headers on this thread, but offer mytwocents. I came to rodmaking from restoring old double shotguns, and beganspray finishing my rods with Birchwood Casey tru-oil in the 1970s. Of the86 rods I made before putting away the planing form, not one to myknowledgehas ever needed a refinish to date. The two that I kept and have usedmyself over the years look just the same as they did 25 years ago. I haveno idea what Tru-oil really is made up of, but it has stood the test of timeand I see no reason to change. -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Carnauba I've used carnauba wax with Wayne's bees wax paste and it works great. Thetrouble is that it's much harder than bees wax and harder to mix. I foundsome in a powdered form at Highland Hardware and I think Woodcraft alsocarries it. The powdered wax mixes quite easily per Wayne's instructions. Brian ThomanThe Chattahoochee River Rod CompanyParker, Coloradohttp://www.bambooflyrods.com(303) 805-5733 -----Original Message-----From: Larry Blan [SMTP:lblan@provide.net]Sent: Sunday, January 31, 1999 9:57 PM Subject: Carnauba To go along with the current finish thread, thought I'd throw this out.Zymol has a pretty fair section on carnauba, if anyone is interested (juststay clear of the $1200.00 wax). Ran across this when I had to purchaseoneof their products recently for a show vehicle. It did have a better shineand depth of finish than the products we normally use. No interest, etc. http://www.zymol.com/tech.htm from DBURRILL@TELEHUB.com Mon Feb 1 10:05:14 1999 Subject: David Riggs List,Has anyone heard from David Riggs lately? I haven't seen a post from him in quite a while, and he hasn't answered the last couplee-mails I've sent him. from RMargiotta@aol.com Mon Feb 1 10:45:31 1999 Subject: Re: Carnauba Tru-oil is a polymerized linseed oil, which means it's been heated veryhighwithout oxygen. Something happens chemically that allows the stuff todryhard and glossy. I believe the resulting product is thinned with mineralspirits and then called "Tru-Oil". It's supposed to offer far greaterprotection than regular linseed oil since it dries hard, but I don't knowhowit compares to varnishes. How many coats did you use? My guess is that4+ isneeded to properly build up the finish. There's also supposed to be polymerized tung oil products on the market,but Ihaven't seen any. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Feb 1 10:53:37 1999 BThoman@neonsoft.com, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Tru-Oil List,I went down in my gun shop and got a bottle of Tru-Oil to see what it saysitis. Here is the description from the side of the bottle. "Tru-Oil is the professionals choice for gunstock finishing. It's uniqueblend of linseed oil and natural oils dries fast and will not cloud, yelloworcrack with age. for a hand rubbed, satin lustre, simply buff with steelwoolor rubbing compound and apply BirchWood Casey's Stock Sheen &conditioner orGunstock Wax. Tru-Oil is also the ideal finish for wood furniture." Nowfromsmelling this stuff I can smell the linseed oil and I would imagine that italso has some tung oil and Japan driers in it. I use this on guns that willsee the eliments a lot such as hunting guns, the ones that are just targetshooters and wall hangers get straight linseed oil finishes. In years past Iused linseed oil as a first coat on bamboo rods but i finished over thiswithvarnish. I will try Tru-Oil on a clunker rod I am redoing to fish steelheadwith and see how it holds up and then I will give you guys a report on it. Bret A side note here. Did manyone get the rod tapers I posted on a spinning rod and a Leonard rod Iposted within the lats week and a half???????? from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Feb 1 11:07:42 1999 Subject: Fwd: 7'6" bamboo spinning rod by Bernard Hills boundary="part0_917888799_boundary" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_917888799_boundary --part0_917888799_boundary RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: 7'6" bamboo spinning rod by Bernard Hills List,I had so many inquiries on this rod I decided to post it to the list. Bernardmade this rod for my brother in 1979. Tip section is 51" long butt sectionis39' long.0'= .103, 5'= .136, 10"= .136, 15'= .154, 20"= .172, 25"= .184, 30"= .196,35'= .216, 40"= .229, 45"= .239, 50'= .254, 55'= .269, 60'= .271, 65'= .284, 70"= .312, 75'= .327, 80"=.327, 85'= .327, 90"= .327. Bernard put on single footceramicguides on this rod and here is the spacing he used. Tip 0", 4.5 ", 10.5',17.5', 25.25", 33.25", 42.125", 53.5', 63". I hope this is what you guyswerelooking for it is a nice medium action rod.Bret --part0_917888799_boundary-- from rambo2_98@yahoo.com Mon Feb 1 11:13:52 1999 1999 09:15:23 PST Subject: Re: Lie-Nielsen Planes Bob: Pardon a question from a beginner, but what's the advantage of asmaller slot in the sole of the 9 1/2? I assumed that the standardL-N has an adjustable sole, and the modification would only reduce theslot size? Since I'm interested in a L-N plane, I might be acandidate for the modified one. Thanks. Jeff _________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from stuart.tod@virgin.net Mon Feb 1 11:23:07 1999 (InterMail v4.00.03.01 201-229-104-101) with SMTP Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:21:57 +0000 Subject: Re: Rod Marking Jeff Arnold wrote: Joe, you bring up several interesting points, but the one that concernsmemost is that we haven't yet looked at our rods as having the Y2K bug. With your networking skills, can you recommend a program to rid thisbug? Joe wrote: With the year 2000 onthe horizon, does anyone mark their rods with the date? Two digits orfour? Come the next century, when your creations are 100 years old,some folks will be wondering if your beauty was created in 1899 or1999. So... How do you mark your rods? Joseph MulveyNetwork EngineerInformation Technology DepartmentCity Of Newton, MA1000 Commonwealth AvenueNewton Centre, MA 02459Phone 617-552-7085Fax 617-552-7036 All my rods next year will be dated 'MM'.....what Y2K bug?Stuart from Ed.Estlow@co.hennepin.mn.us Mon Feb 1 11:25:23 1999 1999 17:23:54 UT 16-1998)) id8625670B.005F7784 ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:22:45 -0600 Subject: Re: Lie-Nielsen Planes Forgive my jumping in - are people getting the adjustable mouth mixed upwiththe longitudinal slot a few thousandths deep that many folks findadvantageous? Best regards,-Ed Estlow (Jeff Anonymous) rambo2_98@yahoo.com on 02/01/99 11:15:23 AM Subject: Re: Lie-Nielsen Planes Bob: Pardon a question from a beginner, but what's the advantage of asmaller slot in the sole of the 9 1/2? I assumed that the standardL-N has an adjustable sole, and the modification would only reduce theslot size? Since I'm interested in a L-N plane, I might be acandidate for the modified one. Thanks. Jeff _________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from Kevin.Burkhardt@ipaper.com Mon Feb 1 11:33:22 1999 via NOTES Subject: new planes What is the model number of the Stanley plane currently being sold that issimilar to the old9 1/2s? Thanks...Kev from HARMS1@prodigy.net Mon Feb 1 15:07:31 1999 ext.prodigy.net QAA104586;Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:07:19 -0500 "'BThoman@neonsoft.com'" , Subject: Re: Carnauba =_NextPart_000_01BE4DFC.D93B6BC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE4DFC.D93B6BC0 Rick,My understanding is that Birchwood Casey's "Tru-Oil" is a linseed oil basethat has polymers, resins and dryers added. It really is wonderful stuffon gunstocks, but I haven't tried it on rods. (No interest in theproduct.) Cheers, Bill ----------From: Rick RappÄ Subject: RE: CarnaubaDate: Monday, February 01, 1999 7:50 AM I have not read much more than the headers on this thread, but offer mytwocents. I came to rodmaking from restoring old double shotguns, andbeganspray finishing my rods with Birchwood Casey tru-oil in the 1970s. Ofthe86 rods I made before putting away the planing form, not one to myknowledgehas ever needed a refinish to date. The two that I kept and have usedmyself over the years look just the same as they did 25 years ago. Ihaveno idea what Tru-oil really is made up of, but it has stood the test oftimeand I see no reason to change. -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, February 01, 1999 9:30 AM Subject: RE: Carnauba I've used carnauba wax with Wayne's bees wax paste and it works great. Thetrouble is that it's much harder than bees wax and harder to mix. Ifoundsome in a powdered form at Highland Hardware and I think Woodcraftalsocarries it. The powdered wax mixes quite easily per Wayne'sinstructions. Brian ThomanThe Chattahoochee River Rod CompanyParker, Coloradohttp://www.bambooflyrods.com(303) 805-5733 -----Original Message-----From: Larry Blan [SMTP:lblan@provide.net]Sent: Sunday, January 31, 1999 9:57 PM Subject: Carnauba To go along with the current finish thread, thought I'd throw this out.Zymol has a pretty fair section on carnauba, if anyone is interested(juststay clear of the $1200.00 wax). Ran across this when I had topurchaseoneof their products recently for a show vehicle. It did have a bettershineand depth of finish than the products we normally use. No interest,etc. http://www.zymol.com/tech.htm------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4DFC.D93B6BC0 Rick,My understandingis = =spray finishing my rods with Birchwood Casey tru-oil in the 1970s. = no idea what Tru-oil really is made up of, but it has stood the test of = = = ------=_NextPart_000_01BE4DFC.D93B6BC0-- from HARMS1@prodigy.net Mon Feb 1 15:32:20 1999 ext.prodigy.net QAA93372;Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:32:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Powell rods =_NextPart_000_01BE4E00.52888DC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE4E00.52888DC0 Reed, Yup, you're right about the linseed oil tradition. The particularapplication over the centuries was always a combination of various "secret" ingredientsandpreparations. "Stand oil," as you point out, was the most common initialpreparation. Pure, raw linseed oil was probably never used, as it neverdries and only gathers dirt. With resins, waxes, turps and dryers added,however, the resulting mixture indeed offers some protection. Gunsmithshave stayed with that finish, as you say, because nothing can equal it inbeauty, and because with a simple rub-out and re-application, the surfaceis again as good as new. Moreover, among those who have been able toafford the very finest guns, there has also been the wherewithal to keepthese in the finest repair. I wonder how practical this would be, though, with the frequent and harduse we give our fly rods. As you would not finish a rod with pure linseedoil, I'd be willing to bet nearly any amount that Powell did not either. It just wouldn't make any sense. While their finish was called linseedoil, it just couldn't have been the pure application. Cheers, Bill ---------- Subject: Re: Powell rods Bill, In all probablility the makers of fine double guns were not usinglinseed oil as we usually see it, but rather "stand oil". Stand oil waspopular among wood workers last century because they knew that the"foots"in linseed oil never oxidized. To prepare stand oil simply put pure linseedoil in a tall glass jar in the sunlight. Wait six months or a year and thensiphon off the clear oil into another container -- that is your stand oil.It really drys. Actually, there were many oil, gums and resins available towoodworkers; linseed oil was not the only game in town. I used to have acollection of 17th-19th century finishing techniques (lost it in a move),which included milk waxes, spirit varnishes, etc.; plenty to choose from.Penetrating oils have a certain ease of repair, so they are perfect forgunstocks. After a coat of wax, you're all set. It may be true that modern "boiled linseed oil" with its additives anddryers is hygroscopic; I would be interested in their test results usingstand oil, multiple coats applied hot. Best regards, Reed P.S. - I wouldn't use just oil on a rod. Oil-varnish is good tho, IMHO.(And then wax.) WILLIAM A HARMS wrote: Perhaps our "observations" are not actually showing us what we thinktheyare showing us. The simple, irrefutable fact is that linseed oil truly ISthe poorest protective finish you could choose. That fact notwithstanding,the very finest gunmakers in England have chosen, for over two hundredyears, to use linseed oil (and some dryers) in finishing stocks and forendson all their best guns. But why? Shall we suppose those gunmakers have always known something the restofthe world does not know? Linseed oil has been used because, for over a hundred years, it was "theonly game in town," and because it has always produced absolutelygorgeousresults on fine woods. Driven by big-money and the accompanyingsnob-appeal, linseed oil came to be regarded as the only "acceptable" finish on expensive guns. But it was never because the finish offered goodprotection. Instead, it was because that, simply, was the tradition. And,I'm sorry, but that's what we're "observing." Mistrust the data, if youcan find a good basis, but don't do so because you think you are"observing" something. As to the Powell rods in question, what we may be observing is thatalthough linseed oil doesn't offer NEARLY the protection that almost ANYother finish can provine, nevertheless, it may still be good enough to keepa good rod from becoming " a junky noodle." So, although linseed oil maynot harm a rod, it isn't going to help it much either. It's just not thecase that the data doesn't correlate with the observation. Rather, it'sthat you're probably not seeing what you think you're seeing. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE4E00.52888DC0 Reed,Yup, you're = over the centuries was always a combination of various = was probably never used, as it never dries and only gathers dirt. = = =that finish, as you say, because nothing can equal it in beauty, and =because with a simple rub-out and re-application, the surface is again = =the very finest guns, there has also been the wherewithal to keep these = would be, though, with the frequent and hard use we give our fly rods. = willing to bet nearly any amount that Powell did not either. = was called linseed oil, it just couldn't have been the pure = =31, 1999 6:05 PMBill, = were not using linseed oil as we usually see it, but rather "stand =oil". Stand oil was popular among wood workers last century because=they knew that the "foots" in linseed oil never oxidized. To =prepare stand oil simply put pure linseed oil in a tall glass jar in the = oil into another container -- that is your stand oil. It really drys. = available to woodworkers; linseed oil was not the only game in town. I =used to have a collection of 17th-19th century finishing techniques =(lost it in a move), which included milk waxes, spirit varnishes, etc.; =plenty to choose from. Penetrating oils have a certain ease of repair, =so they are perfect for gunstocks. After a coat of wax, you're all set. = oil" with its additives and dryers is hygroscopic; I would be =interested in their test results using stand oil, multiple coats applied =hot. Best regards, Reed P.S. - I wouldn't use just oil on a =rod. Oil-varnish is good tho, IMHO. (And then wax.) WILLIAM A HARMS =wrote: = =irrefutable fact is that linseed oil truly IS the poorest protective = finest gunmakers in England have chosen, for over two hundred years, to =use linseed oil (and some dryers) in finishing stocks and forends on all = something =the rest of the world does not know? Linseed oil has been used because, for over a hundred years, = = =the data, if you can find a good basis, but don't do so because you = = may be observing is that although linseed oil doesn't offer NEARLY the =protection that almost ANY other finish can provine, nevertheless, it =may still be good enough to keep a good rod from becoming " a junky= it isn't going to help it much either. It's just not the case that the =data doesn't correlate with the observation. Rather, it's that you're =probably not seeing what you think you're seeing. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE4E00.52888DC0-- from thramer@presys.com Mon Feb 1 15:42:39 1999 Subject: Noodle Rods As usual lots of theory,BUT no one has answered the question of whyPowell rods are not noodlesA.J. from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Mon Feb 1 16:10:46 1999 sims.3.5.1998.03.08.20.27)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, Subject: RE: Noodle Rods Weren't Powell rods laminated with strips of cedar? Perhaps that hadsomething to do with their lack of noodleness. Just an idea. Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: Noodle Rods As usual lots of theory,BUT no one has answered the question of whyPowell rods are not noodlesA.J. from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Feb 1 18:39:53 1999 smtp.clarityconnect.comwith ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1a3); Mon, 1 Feb 199919:39:55-0500 (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:02:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Rod Marking Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Seeing as I have only made rods from other makers tapers I have made it ahabit of indicating the taper and maker. On one flat it will say "maker -Jon Lintvet," and on another "taper - John Zimny." I definitely agreecredit should be given. Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod Company)140 E. Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) 277-4510www.munrorodco.com-----Original Message----- Subject: Rod Marking Hello All, Just rec. BBFR in the mail. The first letter from a gentleman inSweden made some points that I thought were very interesting. Henotes that when using someone else's taper on your rod, some type ofnotation could be mentioned to give credit where credit is due. SinceI have not built my first bamboo from scratch yet, I was wondering...Does anybody do this? What info do you supply on the rod? Are youconsistent with every piece you build? I have refinished a few rods,trying to keep them in original condition. Now suppose I did such anice job (I said suppose!) that no one could tell it was refinished.In theory, I could put it on the market as a Mint/Unfished rod formuch more $$$ than it is really worth. Am I obligated to make alittle notation on the rod to mention "Refinished by J. Mulvey, Jan.1999" or should I leave it as is? How about turning a 3 pc 9 wtMontague into a 2 pc 5 wt banty. Now there are no markings. Do I havethe right to mark this as I wish? I think not! With the year 2000 onthe horizon, does anyone mark their rods with the date? Two digits orfour? Come the next century, when your creations are 100 years old,some folks will be wondering if your beauty was created in 1899 or1999. So... How do you mark your rods? On a side note, concerning that excellent magazine, I had an idea thatsomeone may want to pass on to the Honorable Mr Metcalfe. How about acenterfold? A three page fold out of someones handiwork up close andpersonal. The little 2"x3" photos of rods do no justice at all! Have a great day,Joe MulveyJoseph MulveyNetwork EngineerInformation Technology DepartmentCity Of Newton, MA1000 Commonwealth AvenueNewton Centre, MA 02459Phone 617-552-7085Fax 617-552-7036 from jaquin@netsync.net Mon Feb 1 19:23:08 1999 quartz.netsync.net(8.9.2/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA27229; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 20:22:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Carnauba Larry Blan wrote: To go along with the current finish thread, thought I'd throw this out.Zymol has a pretty fair section on carnauba, if anyone is interested (juststay clear of the $1200.00 wax). Ran across this when I had to purchaseoneof their products recently for a show vehicle. It did have a better shineand depth of finish than the products we normally use. No interest, etc. http://www.zymol.com/tech.htmhi larry, what form is the carnuba wax in, and how is it used on therods? i may have ready accesso carnuba wax in powdered form. tia jerry from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Feb 1 19:23:41 1999 Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:23:09 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: David Riggs On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Burrill, Dean wrote: List,Has anyone heard from David Riggs lately? I haven't seen a post from him in quite a while, and he hasn't answered the last couplee-mails I've sent him. I've done the same, he seems to have just disapeared. Hope he's OK. /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb? A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from moran@lincoln.midcoast.com Mon Feb 1 19:51:29 1999 (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA11857; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 20:51:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Powell rods I spoke with Walton Powell at a fishing show about 5 years ago regardinghisfinishing technique. He told me he soaked the blanks in tung oil for sometime(?1 week), dried them and then applied shellac. I could dig throughmynotes to get the details if anyone is interested. Sean Moran----- Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: RE: Powell rods I don't know which Powell you mean. But, I have it from Walton and Presboth that the finest white shellac was used. The linseed oil was just alubricant for the application of the shellac. Pure, de-waxed blonde shellacis highly elastic and water resistant. It should provide about the samevapor barrier as most non-epoxy varnish. Along with a coat of wax, itmighteven be marginally better. Of course, unlike oil/resin mixtures, it does nothave much solvent resistance.I don't know what E. C. used.John Z -----Original Message-----From: A.J.Thramer [SMTP:thramer@presys.com]Sent: Friday, January 29, 1999 10:07 PM Subject: Powell rods Were(are) not many Powell rods finished with linseed oil? If, as thedata suggests linseed oil is WORSE than NO finish at all are not thevast majority of Powell rods junky noodles? When data does not corellate with obsevation it makes me want to dig alittle deeper for accurate data.A.J.Thramer from HARMS1@prodigy.net Mon Feb 1 20:08:19 1999 ext.prodigy.net VAA31702;Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:08:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Noodle Rods =_NextPart_000_01BE4E26.E1256280" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE4E26.E1256280 A.J.If you are still assuming that a plain ol' linseed oil finish is whatPowell used, and that it's plenty good -- and that all scientific evidenceabout linseed oil's poor protective qualities just runs contrary good ol'common sense, then you're probably not going to get any answers. Youcan'thear what you don't want to hear, you know. ----------From: A.J.Thramer Subject: Noodle RodsDate: Monday, February 01, 1999 1:51 PM As usual lots of theory,BUT no one has answered the question of whyPowell rods are not noodlesA.J.------=_NextPart_000_01BE4E26.E1256280 A.J.If you are still =assuming that a plain ol' linseed oil finish is what Powell used, and = linseed oil's poor protective qualities just runs contrary good ol' =common sense, then you're probably not going to get any answers. = ------=_NextPart_000_01BE4E26.E1256280-- from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Mon Feb 1 20:55:20 1999 sims.3.5.1998.03.08.20.27)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, Subject: Sanding glue off blank BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_MiZ1Yz2MJ+ZE1lPsqmL5nQ)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_MiZ1Yz2MJ+ZE1lPsqmL5nQ) I'm presently sanding the glue off my first blank. I'm having a tough timeknowing when to stop. Since the glue is beige (urac), the enamel is beigeand the bamboo is beige, I can't go by the color of the dust on thesandpaper. I've been taking measurements along the blank, hoping thatwhenI'm exactly on taper, I'll have removed only the layer of glue. In theory,this may be right but in practice, I'm not so sure since there's thepossibly that the blank has swelled a little from gluing or from taking onsome moisture. After about one hour of gingerly sanding, I'm still a bitover my taper dimensions. Should you just see the power fibers through a haze? Should you be rightatthe power fibers? By the time you are right at the power fibers, haven'tyoucut through some? I'd really appreciate it if someone could describe whatthe cane should look like once the glue and enamel are removed. Thanks in advance, Richard richard.nantel@videotron.ca(514) 485-2287 --Boundary_(ID_MiZ1Yz2MJ+ZE1lPsqmL5nQ) presently sanding the glue off my first blank. I'm having a tough time = when to stop. Since the glue is beige (urac), the enamel is beige and = is beige, I can't go by the color of the dust on the sandpaper. I've = measurements along the blank, hoping that when I'm exactly on taper, = removed only the layer of glue. In theory, this may be right but in = I'm not so sure since there's the possibly that the blank has swelled a = from gluing or from taking on some moisture. After about one hour of = sanding, I'm still a bit over my taper dimensions. see the power fibers through a haze? Should you be right at the power = the time you are right at the power fibers, haven't you cut through = I'd really appreciate it if someone could describe what the = look like once the glue and enamel are removed. in advance, Richard richard.nantel@videotron.ca(514) 485-2287 --Boundary_(ID_MiZ1Yz2MJ+ZE1lPsqmL5nQ)-- from drinkr@voicenet.com Mon Feb 1 21:20:17 1999 0000 (207.103.143.72) Subject: Cork boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01BE4E30.5BDC17E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BE4E30.5BDC17E0 Im putting together a cork order from C&D. I probably don't need morethan500 1/2 inch rings at this time so I would be willing to split off some ofthe order to another builder. The price is .65 per ring +shipping. Iwont sort the cork before sending it out just split it as it comes. Contactme off list if there is any interest. David Rinker ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BE4E30.5BDC17E0 Rinker ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BE4E30.5BDC17E0-- from BambooRods@aol.com Mon Feb 1 21:21:20 1999 Subject: Re: Powell rods In a message dated 2/1/99 8:52:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,moran@lincoln.midcoast.com writes: Please post the info.thanksdoug hall from mrj@aa.net Mon Feb 1 21:29:23 1999 Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:29:12 -0800 "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Subject: RE: Sanding glue off blank boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01BE4E18.C4653020" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BE4E18.C4653020 I used to sand off the glue on my blanks but now I scrape it off. I take myplane blade out of my plane and hold it sideways and simply scrape theglueoff. I use one of those round lighted magnifying lenses to see the tipsection with and I go really slow "up there". This method has workedreallywell for me. I follow by sanding with maybe 320 grit or so for only a fewpasses and then progress to 400 followed by 600 grit and then polish withthe bamboo shavings. As far as when to stop, I can't tell you. Maybesomeoneelse can. I will tell you that you are not going to remove a lot of materialwith 400 and 600 grit paper. Martin Jensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, February 01, 1999 6:57 PM Subject: Sanding glue off blank I'm presently sanding the glue off my first blank. I'm having a toughtime knowing when to stop. Since the glue is beige (urac), the enamel isbeige and the bamboo is beige, I can't go by the color of the dust on thesandpaper. I've been taking measurements along the blank, hoping thatwhenI'm exactly on taper, I'll have removed only the layer of glue. In theory,this may be right but in practice, I'm not so sure since there's thepossibly that the blank has swelled a little from gluing or from taking onsome moisture. After about one hour of gingerly sanding, I'm still a bitover my taper dimensions. Should you just see the power fibers through a haze? Should you berightat the power fibers? By the time you are right at the power fibers, haven'tyou cut through some? I'd really appreciate it if someone could describewhat the cane should look like once the glue and enamel are removed. Thanks in advance, Richard richard.nantel@videotron.ca(514) 485-2287 ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BE4E18.C4653020 to sand off the glue on my blanks but now I scrape it off. I take my = out of my plane and hold it sideways and simply scrape the glue off. I = of those round lighted magnifying lenses to see the tip section with and = really slow "up there". This method has worked really well for= follow by sanding with maybe 320 grit or so for only a few passes and = progress to 400 followed by 600 grit and then polish with the bamboo = As far as when to stop, I can't tell you. Maybe someone else can. I will = you that you are not going to remove a lot of material with 400 and 600 = paper. Martin Jensen Richard = NantelSent: Monday, February 01, 1999 6:57 = blankI'm presently sanding the glue off my first blank. I'm = time knowing when to stop. Since the glue is beige (urac), the = beige and the bamboo is beige, I can't go by the color of the dust = sandpaper. I've been taking measurements along the blank, hoping = I'm exactly on taper, I'll have removed only the layer of glue. In = this may be right but in practice, I'm not so sure since there's the = possibly that the blank has swelled a little from gluing or from = some moisture. After about one hour of gingerly sanding, I'm still a = over my taper dimensions. just see the power fibers through a haze? Should you be right at the = fibers? By the time you are right at the power fibers, haven't you = through some? I'd really appreciate it if = describe what the cane should look like once the glue and enamel are = removed. Thanks in advance, Richard richard.nantel@videotron.ca(514) 485-2287 ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BE4E18.C4653020-- from jjohnso4@bellsouth.net Mon Feb 1 22:09:38 1999 XAA18259 Subject: Re: Son of Cork Order Hi David, Anything happening with this? Johnny Dear All-Who-Participate Just thought all should know: CorkSpecialties returned my check. Since it was not accompanied by anythingwhich could be construed as "communication"- just an envelope and acheck (?)- I assume he doesn't feel that he can satisfy me as regardsquality. Since everybody has been very patient and gone along with itthus far, I wanted to inform all involved that I've selected anotherdealer, Christ Kishish of C&D Trading in Minnesota. If anyone haspertinent comments re. this firm, or is just tired of the ride and wantsto get off, please let me know. I hope none take me up on this, sincewe are just at a good price break now, and defections would limit ourbuying power. I will certainly honor any such requests, however, withno ill will whatever, in case that's anyone's desire. I'll stand by acouple of days to gauge the wind, then I'll launch, hopefully, our finalprobe. Keeping the Faith, from maxs@geocities.co.jp Mon Feb 1 23:24:12 1999 mail.geocities.co.jp (8.9.2+1.1G/GEOCITIES1.1) with SMTP id OAA03820;Tue, 2 Feb 199914:24:06 +0900 (JST) Subject: Gary Lohkamp Gary, Please contact me offlist. I need to talk with you on phone.I need your phone number and address again. Max from maxs@geocities.co.jp Tue Feb 2 01:26:19 1999 mail.geocities.co.jp (8.9.2+1.1G/GEOCITIES1.1) with SMTP id QAA29313;Tue, 2 Feb 199916:26:08 +0900 (JST) "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Subject: RE: Sanding glue off blank boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003B_01BE4EC3.2F3F0100" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01BE4EC3.2F3F0100 Hi Richard, I am not so much experienced but let me describe how I do it. When glue is sanded off? I use a file to take the glue (and string) off. The file has parallel edgesin one direction. ( I don't knowhow I name it, vixen?) So it is like to have many scraping brade on it inparallel.I look through the blank on each flat against a light (or window) aftercarefully file off for a while.Since glue shines, I can understand whether glue is till remained on theflat.I think it is the same when I use sand paper. When to stop sanding.? There might be another opinion but, in my case, I stop when I have thedesignated taper at each point of measurement as originally planned. Todothis, I am careful to keep the both side of one flat are filed off evenly bycounting how many times I filed both sides. (to be straight) When I judge the enamel is off completely? guess I could see a reflection, something different from other area, likeshine is different if again I look through the surface against the light.I thought I could see some moisture-like thin color above the fibers on thesurface when I looked at the surface from a perpendicular angle of theflat.Even if I judge that enamel is completely offed, when the dimension islarger than the designated taper, I keep filing off the flat until thedimension matches the original plan, by taking care of number of strokesoffiling on each flat. After (or just before) I get the final taper on the blank, I lightly sand(or polish) the surface with veryfine grids of paper (#1000 water proof without water). It gets ready tovarnish. Does this help? Max -----Original Message----- Subject: Sanding glue off blank I'm presently sanding the glue off my first blank. I'm having a toughtime knowing when to stop. Since the glue is beige (urac), the enamel isbeige and the bamboo is beige, I can't go by the color of the dust on thesandpaper. I've been taking measurements along the blank, hoping thatwhenI'm exactly on taper, I'll have removed only the layer of glue. In theory,this may be right but in practice, I'm not so sure since there's thepossibly that the blank has swelled a little from gluing or from taking onsome moisture. After about one hour of gingerly sanding, I'm still a bitover my taper dimensions. Should you just see the power fibers through a haze? Should you berightat the power fibers? By the time you are right at the power fibers, haven'tyou cut through some? I'd really appreciate it if someone could describewhat the cane should look like once the glue and enamel are removed. Thanks in advance, Richard richard.nantel@videotron.ca(514) 485-2287 ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01BE4EC3.2F3F0100 Hi =Richard, I am not somuch = describe how I do it. When glue issanded =off? I use a file totake = know name it, = like to have many scraping brade on it in parallel.I look throughthe = a light (or window) after carefully file off for a while. Since glueshines, I = glue is till remained on the flat.I think it isthe = paper. When to stop=sanding.? There mightbe = case, I stop when I have the designated taper at each point of = flat are filed off evenly by counting how many times I filed both sides. = straight) When I judgethe = completely? file = different from other area, like shine is different if again I look = surface against the light.I thought Icould see = color above the fibers on the surface when I looked at the surface from = perpendicularangle = if I judge that enamel is completely offed, when the dimension is = flat until the dimension matches the original plan, by taking care of = strokes of filing on each flat. After (or just= on the blank, I lightly sand (or polish) the surface with very = fine grids ofpaper = Does this =help? Max Rodmakers (E-mail) <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Tuesday, February 02, 1999 11:57 AMSubject: Sanding glue= blank I'm presently sanding the glue off my first blank. I'm = time knowing when to stop. Since the glue is beige (urac), the = beige and the bamboo is beige, I can't go by the color of the dust = sandpaper. I've been taking measurements along the blank, hoping = I'm exactly on taper, I'll have removed only the layer of glue. In = this may be right but in practice, I'm not so sure since there's the = possibly that the blank has swelled a little from gluing or from = some moisture. After about one hour of gingerly sanding, I'm still a = over my taper dimensions. just see the power fibers through a haze? Should you be right at the = fibers? By the time you are right at the power fibers, haven't you = through some? I'd really appreciate it if = describe what the cane should look like once the glue and enamel are = removed. Thanks in advance, Richard richard.nantel@videotron.ca(514) 485-2287 ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01BE4EC3.2F3F0100-- from Sergio.Ishikawa@nextel.com.br Tue Feb 2 05:56:59 1999 Subject: test test from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Tue Feb 2 08:35:46 1999 Subject: new planes KE>What is the model number of the Stanley plane currently being soldthat isKE>similar to the oldKE> 9 1/2s? Thanks...Kev Kevin,Sorry, I forgot to look at the number on the side of my plane in thegarage last night. It something like 12G0900. However, look at thefollowing website for a description and pictures of the Stanley 9 1/2Block Plane. http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan2.htm#num9.5 Hope this helpsDick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Tue Feb 2 09:01:14 1999 smtp.clarityconnect.comwith ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1a3); Tue, 2 Feb 199910:01:20-0500 (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:57:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Sanding glue off blank boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0052_01BE4E93.1FE4CD00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01BE4E93.1FE4CD00 I am a big fan of seeing the power fibers. Sand until you are sure the =glue is off. Look under a light or window and you should be able to see =some sort of reflection. In the whole scheme of things I wouldn't worry =all to much about the few fibers you sever while sanding. If you are =close to the taper...great...I don't think I would sand .004" of each =spline to hit the taper if the rod was oversized. I would probably just =get a larger line. Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod Company)140 E. Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) 277-4510www.munrorodco.com-----Original Message----- From: Richard Nantel Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 9:57 PMSubject: Sanding glue off blank I'm presently sanding the glue off my first blank. I'm having a =tough time knowing when to stop. Since the glue is beige (urac), the =enamel is beige and the bamboo is beige, I can't go by the color of the =dust on the sandpaper. I've been taking measurements along the blank, =hoping that when I'm exactly on taper, I'll have removed only the layer =of glue. In theory, this may be right but in practice, I'm not so sure =since there's the possibly that the blank has swelled a little from =gluing or from taking on some moisture. After about one hour of gingerly =sanding, I'm still a bit over my taper dimensions. Should you just see the power fibers through a haze? Should you be =right at the power fibers? By the time you are right at the power =fibers, haven't you cut through some? I'd really appreciate it if =someone could describe what the cane should look like once the glue and =enamel are removed. Thanks in advance, Richard richard.nantel@videotron.ca(514) 485-2287 ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01BE4E93.1FE4CD00 I am a big fan of seeing the power= things I wouldn't worry all to much about the few fibers you sever while = sand .004" of each spline to hit the taper if the rod was = I would probably just get a larger line.Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod = Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) =277- 4510www.munrorodco.com -----Original = Rodmakers (E-mail) <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Monday, February 01, 1999 9:57 PMSubject: Sanding = blankI'm presently sanding the glue off my first blank. I'm = time knowing when to stop. Since the glue is beige (urac), the = beige and the bamboo is beige, I can't go by the color of the dust = sandpaper. I've been taking measurements along the blank, hoping = I'm exactly on taper, I'll have removed only the layer of glue. In = this may be right but in practice, I'm not so sure since there's the = possibly that the blank has swelled a little from gluing or from = some moisture. After about one hour of gingerly sanding, I'm still a = over my taper dimensions. just see the power fibers through a haze? Should you be right at the = fibers? By the time you are right at the power fibers, haven't you = through some? I'd really appreciate it if = describe what the cane should look like once the glue and enamel are = removed. Thanks in advance, Richard richard.nantel@videotron.ca(514) 485-2287 ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01BE4E93.1FE4CD00-- from jfoster@gte.net Tue Feb 2 10:14:26 1999 Subject: archives mac-creator="4D4F5353" you should be able to get to the 1/96 archives now sorry jerry from jonfun@univest.com Tue Feb 2 10:27:02 1999 Subject: RE: new planes The number on the new planes is g12-020. However they are boxed underthenumber g12-920. Jonathan FunkSoftware EngineerUnivest Financial Group LLC -----Original Message-----From: dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 9:22 AM Subject: new planes KE>What is the model number of the Stanley plane currentlybeing sold that isKE>similar to the oldKE> 9 1/2s? Thanks...Kev Kevin,Sorry, I forgot to look at the number on the side of myplane in thegarage last night. It something like 12G0900. However,look at thefollowing website for a description and pictures of theStanley 9 1/2Block Plane. http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan2.htm#num9.5 Hope this helpsDick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net cc: IN:RODMAKERS@MAIL.WUSTL.EDU winmail.dat Name: winmail.datType: unspecified type (application/octet-stream)Encoding: x-uuencode from Turbotrk@aol.com Tue Feb 2 13:35:25 1999 Subject: Hey Is the list dead or is everyone just taking care of their hangovers from thesuperbowl? Just wondering. from hexagon@odyssee.net Tue Feb 2 15:07:11 1999 Subject: Re: Sanding glue off blank 24040A5C79CDB807DDACEE68" --------------24040A5C79CDB807DDACEE68 Richard,if you had washed the newly glued up blank with a cloth and plenty ofwater there would have been nothing but a fuzzy line from removing thecord. A small block of wood and some 220 will remove the lines in a fewminutes. Finish off with a scotchbrite pad.Should take no more than 1/2 hour.I'll never undrstand why some builders use epoxy.regards, Terry Richard Nantel wrote: I'm presently sanding the glue off my first blank. I'm having a toughtime knowing when to stop. Since the glue is beige (urac), the enamelis beige and the bamboo is beige, I can't go by the color of the duston the sandpaper. I've been taking measurements along the blank,hoping that when I'm exactly on taper, I'll have removed only thelayer of glue. In theory, this may be right but in practice, I'm notso sure since there's the possibly that the blank has swelled a little from gluing or from taking on some moisture. After about one hour ofgingerly sanding, I'm still a bit over my taper dimensions.Should youjust see the power fibers through a haze? Should you be right at thepower fibers? By the time you are right at the power fibers, haven'tyou cut through some? I'd really appreciate it if someone coulddescribe what the cane should look like once the glue and enamel areremoved.Thanks in advance, Richard richard.nantel@videotron.ca(514)485-2287 --------------24040A5C79CDB807DDACEE68 Richard, and plenty of water there would have been nothing but a fuzzy line fromremoving the cord. A small block of wood and some 220 will remove thelinesin a few minutes. Finish off with a scotchbrite pad.Should take no more than 1/2 hour.I'll never undrstand why some builders use epoxy.regards, Terry Richard Nantel wrote: presently sanding the glue off my first blank. I'm having a tough timeknowing when to stop. Since the glue is beige (urac), the enamel is beigeand the bamboo is beige, I can't go by the color of the dust on thesandpaper.I've been taking measurements along the blank, hoping that when I'mexactlyon taper, I'll have removed only the layer of glue. In theory, this maybe right but in practice, I'm not so sure since there's the possibly thatthe blank has swelled a little from gluing or from taking on somemoisture.After about one hour of gingerly sanding, I'm still a bit over my taperdimensions.Shouldyou just see the power fibers through a haze? Should you be right at thepower fibers? By the time you are right at the power fibers, haven't you reallyappreciate it if someone could describe what the cane should look likeonce the glue and enamel areremoved.Thanks --------------24040A5C79CDB807DDACEE68-- from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Tue Feb 2 15:24:22 1999 sims.3.5.1998.03.08.20.27)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, Subject: Silk thread BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_ZGQNt8iS4H9K49dwgRSsVQ)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_ZGQNt8iS4H9K49dwgRSsVQ) I've come across quite a stash of silk thread at a local dressmaker'ssupplyshop.It comes in 100 meter spools, about 50 colors and is quiteinexpensiveat $3.80 Cdn per spool. Trouble is, I'm not experienced enough to knowwhether it is fine enough for bamboo rod building. The company or productname is Zwicky Iris. The spools contain the following code: 100% silk Nm100/3 300 (3). Does anyone speak thread? I'd like to know whether thesenumbers correspond to anything we know such as size A, Elephant,Gossamer,etc. Thanks in advance, Richard PS I don't think you can successfully mike thread with a dial caliper. richard.nantel@videotron.ca(514) 485-2287 --Boundary_(ID_ZGQNt8iS4H9K49dwgRSsVQ) come across quite a stash of silk thread at a local dressmaker's supply = comes in 100 meter spools, about 50 colors and is quite inexpensive at = per spool. Trouble is, I'm not experienced enough to know whether it is = enough for bamboo rod building. The company or product name is Zwicky = spools contain the following code: 100% silk Nm 100/3 300 (3). Does = thread? I'd like to know whether these numbers correspond to anything we= such as size A, Elephant, Gossamer, etc. in advance, Richard caliper. richard.nantel@videotron.ca(514) 485-2287 --Boundary_(ID_ZGQNt8iS4H9K49dwgRSsVQ)-- from RMargiotta@aol.com Tue Feb 2 18:22:32 1999 Subject: Re: Silk thread Richard: I think this is Size 100; the 100/3 means "Size 100, 3ply", I think. If it isSize 100 it's slightly smaller than 00 (which is smaller than A) but largerthan Pearsall's Gossamer (which seems to me to be approx. a 5/0-6/0, butI'mjust guessing.) You should buy a spool and compare it to some of yourknownsizes, using a magnifying glass (you should be able to tell). I typically useYLI Size 100 for the main wraps and Pearsall's for tipping. --Rich from hexagon@odyssee.net Tue Feb 2 18:52:42 1999 Subject: Re: Sanding glue off blank A323A4993119448B9DDE9865" --------------A323A4993119448B9DDE9865 If you plane to the top of accurately set planing forms, there is noneed to check the finished blank after glue up. Using adhesives likeResorcinol, Urac and even Titebond that contain a proportion of walnutshell flour, it is impossible for a blank to mic up at twice the splinedimension. Adhesives take up space and there are 6 glue lines.If the splines measured ok before gluing and a few thou oversize aftergluing, it is not a problem. There is, after all, the right amount ofcane in the rod, only the glue line perhaps varies.I see no sense in removing power fibers because you perhaps have someextra glue!T.Ackland Jon Lintvet wrote: I am a big fan of seeing the power fibers. Sand until you are surethe glue is off. Look under a light or window and you should be ableto see some sort of reflection. In the whole scheme of things Iwouldn't worry all to much about the few fibers you sever whilesanding. If you are close to the taper...great...I don't think Iwould sand .004" of each spline to hit the taper if the rod wasoversized. I would probably just get a larger line. Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod Company)140 E. Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) 277-4510www.munrorodco.com -----Original Message-----From: Richard Nantel Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 9:57 PMSubject: Sanding glue off blankI'm presently sanding theglue off my first blank. I'm having a tough time knowingwhen to stop. Since the glue is beige (urac), the enamel isbeige and the bamboo is beige, I can't go by the color ofthe dust on the sandpaper. I've been taking measurementsalong the blank, hoping that when I'm exactly on taper, I'llhave removed only the layer of glue. In theory, this may beright but in practice, I'm not so sure since there's thepossibly that the blank has swelled a little from gluing or from taking on some moisture. After about one hour ofgingerly sanding, I'm still a bit over my taperdimensions.Should you just see the power fibers through ahaze? Should you be right at the power fibers? By the timeyou are right at the power fibers, haven't you cut throughsome? I'd really appreciate it if someone could describewhat the cane should look like once the glue and enamel areremoved.Thanks inadvance, Richard richard.nantel@videotron.ca(514) 485-2287 --------------A323A4993119448B9DDE9865 If you plane to the top of accurately set planing forms, there is no needto check the finished blank after glue up. Using adhesives like Resorcinol,Urac and even Titebond that contain a proportion of walnut shell flour,it is impossible for a blank to mic up at twice the spline dimension.Adhesivestake up space and there are 6 glue lines.If the splines measured ok before gluing and a few thou oversize aftergluing, it is not a problem. There is, after all, the right amount of canein the rod, only the glue line perhaps varies.I see no sense in removing power fibers because you perhaps havesomeextra glue!T.Ackland Jon Lintvet wrote: am a you are close to the taper...great...I don't think I would sand .004" of probablyjust get a larger line. Jon Lintvet (Munro RodCompany)140 E. SpencerSt.Ithaca, NY14850(800) 836-7558 or (607)277-4510www.munrorodco.com-----OriginalMessage----- From: Richard Nantel<richard.nantel@videotron.ca> <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu>Date: Monday, February 01,1999 9:57 PMSubject: Sanding glue offblankI'mpresently sanding the glue off my first blank. I'm having a tough timeknowing when to stop. Since the glue is beige (urac), the enamel is beigeand the bamboo is beige, I can't go by the color of the dust on thesandpaper.I've been taking measurements along the blank, hoping that when I'mexactlyon taper, I'll have removed only the layer of glue. In theory, this maybe right but in practice, I'm not so sure since there's the possibly thatthe blank has swelled a little from gluing or from taking on somemoisture.After about one hour of gingerly sanding, I'm still a bit over my taperdimensions.Shouldyou just see the power fibers through a haze? Should you be right at thepower fibers? By the time you are right at the power fibers, haven't you reallyappreciate it if someone could describe what the cane should look likeonce the glue and enamel areremoved.Thanks --------------A323A4993119448B9DDE9865-- from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Tue Feb 2 19:25:22 1999 sims.3.5.1998.03.08.20.27)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, Subject: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Impregnation BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_ZUrNtZCowIN4Xxy0X7bEEA)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_ZUrNtZCowIN4Xxy0X7bEEA) I started the humidity in non-varnished blank thread a little while ago.Thanks to all who responded. It has been very helpful. It certainly sounds as if impregnation is probably one of the best ways tokeep moisture out of a bamboo rod. I'd therefore like to spin this threadoff into one about the technique of impregnation. How's it done? Whatresinsare now used? Are there resources on the web that might cover woodimpregnation techniques? It doesn't seem to be widely used by membersonthis list. Most opt for dipping it seems. Is that because there's a negativeside to impregnation? It is definitely a technique I'd like to try. Thanks in advance, Richard --Boundary_(ID_ZUrNtZCowIN4Xxy0X7bEEA) started this thread a little while ago. Thanks to all who responded. It = very helpful. It certainly sounds as if impregnation is probably one of = ways to keep moisture out of a bamboo rod. = --Boundary_(ID_ZUrNtZCowIN4Xxy0X7bEEA)-- from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Tue Feb 2 19:41:30 1999 sims.3.5.1998.03.08.20.27)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, Subject: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Impregnation "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Oops. Part of my post disappeared. Here's the full text: I started this thread a little while ago. Thanks to all who responded. Ithas been very helpful. It certainly sounds as if impregnation is probablyone of the best ways to keep moisture out of a bamboo rod. So, I'd like tostart a thread on impregnation. What are the techniques and materials?Mostrodbuilders on this list seem to prefer dipping their rods, is that becausethere is a negative side to impregnation? It is a technique I'd like to try. Richard from mrj@aa.net Tue Feb 2 20:36:01 1999 Subject: RE: Silk thread boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0030_01BE4EDA.7C8858A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01BE4EDA.7C8858A0 I imagine you could with an electron microscope, or maybe a laser? Martin Jensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 1:22 PM Subject: Silk thread PS I don't think you can successfully mike thread with a dial caliper. richard.nantel@videotron.ca(514) 485-2287 ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01BE4EDA.7C8858A0 Martin Jensen Richard = NantelSent: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 1:22 = Rodmakers (E-mail)Subject: Silk =thread caliper. richard.nantel@videotron.ca(514) 485-2287 ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01BE4EDA.7C8858A0-- from jefffly@choice.net Tue Feb 2 20:37:02 1999 VAA25312 Subject: Gatlinburg Gathering? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE4EF4.0FA34E60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE4EF4.0FA34E60 A few months ago there was some discussion about a rodmakers gathering=in Gatlinburg, TN. Does anyone have any new information on whether or =not this is going to happen? Date? TIA, Jeff ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE4EF4.0FA34E60 A few months ago there was some= a rodmakers gathering in Gatlinburg, TN. Does anyone have any new = TIA, Jeff ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE4EF4.0FA34E60-- from tbeckfam@pacbell.net Tue Feb 2 23:11:54 1999 mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id VAA15336; Tue,2 Feb 1999 21:11:00 Subject: Re: new planes dickfuhrman@rheemote.com wrote: KE>What is the model number of the Stanley plane currently being soldthat isKE>similar to the oldKE> 9 1/2s? Thanks...Kev Kevin,Sorry, I forgot to look at the number on the side of my plane in thegarage last night. It something like 12G0900. However, look at thefollowing website for a description and pictures of the Stanley 9 1/2Block Plane. http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan2.htm#num9.5 Hope this helpsDick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net cc: IN:RODMAKERS@MAIL.WUSTL.EDU Model # is 12-920Traver Becker from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Wed Feb 3 00:21:20 1999 (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP Wed, 3 Feb 1999 06:20:47 +0000 Subject: Re: new planes 12-220 non-adjustable mouth ($30 plane) or12-920 adjustable mouth ($50 plane) George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: new planes dickfuhrman@rheemote.com wrote: KE>What is the model number of the Stanley plane currently being soldthat isKE>similar to the oldKE> 9 1/2s? Thanks...Kev Kevin,Sorry, I forgot to look at the number on the side of my plane in thegarage last night. It something like 12G0900. However, look at thefollowing website for a description and pictures of the Stanley 9 1/2Block Plane. http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan2.htm#num9.5 Hope this helpsDick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net cc: IN:RODMAKERS@MAIL.WUSTL.EDU Model # is 12-920Traver Becker from jfoster@gte.net Wed Feb 3 02:29:58 1999 Subject: archives mac-creator="4D4F5353" jan archives are up jerry from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Feb 3 10:55:37 1999 Subject: Re: new planes In a message dated 2/2/99 10:25:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, irish- george@worldnet.att.net writes: 12-220 non-adjustable mouth ($30 plane) or12-920 adjustable mouth ($50 plane) My nonadjustable roughing plane is stamped G12-220,but my adjustable throat Stanley plane is stamped G12-020on the side. It also cost $29.95. Last week I saw it in awoodworking store for $32.95 Darryl from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Wed Feb 3 10:58:36 1999 Subject: Planes Kevin and Others,Thanks for giving Kevin the correct number for the 9 1/2 Block Plane. Iwas trying to work from a faulty memory. I had slept the night before. Kevin, Besides the URL that I gave you, also try:http:\\stanleyworks.com Then click on Contractor's Catalog, then on Hand/Carpentry, then onPlanes, and finally on Block Planes. The picture that comes up shouldbe of the 9 1/2 (12-920) Stanley Block Plane. There is also a "Where toPurchase" button there. It will ask for your Zip Code Number. When Itried this it gave me nine retail stores in my area. Some I had nottried like K-Mart. Hope this helpsDick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net from BThoman@neonsoft.com Wed Feb 3 11:07:28 1999 Subject: Dip Tube What do most people use for their dip tube? PVC? Aluminum? Copper? Isanyone better than the other? I've been using PVC. Brian ThomanThe Chattahoochee River Rod CompanyParker, Coloradohttp://www.bambooflyrods.com(303) 805-5733 from GLohkamp@aol.com Wed Feb 3 11:10:28 1999 Subject: Troutdale meeting Well, this is the program so far, it will fill out some more by May 22nd,butl really needed to get something out in the mail.Iam sure the agenda willfillout some more by the time the meeting rolls around. If you have anyquestionsor wish to participate with a demo or presentation please feel free tocontact me Thanks Gary Cane Rod Makers Troutdale, Oregon May 22nd 1999 Many thanks to the Northwest Flyfishers Club of Troutdale who hasgenerouslyoffered their clubhouse, for us to use, also the city of Troutdale Parksdepartment. Subject PresenterTime Doors open, Coffee & muffins Introductions8:00 Round table discussion begins8:30 Morning break.10: 00 Finish up round table Sharpening tools: Tom Fulk. Tools, Planes: Kevin Calloway Kevin will have many of the hand tools needed to work with the bamboo.Somepros and cons will be Discussed as well as demonstrations of use and maintenance Lunch break12:00 Gadgets, Binders, Ovens , Milling demonstration: GoldenWitch Rods GoldenWitch will be showing some of there milling equipment and otherGadgets ,to make building A little easier Urushi Varnishing: Gary Lohkamp Morgan hand mill Rodsmiths will be showing off the hand mill Casting: Leroy Teeple Leroy is a great caster and a very good instructor, be sure and bring a rod. Wrap up discussion/ raffle til 5pm Proceeds go to the Northwest Flyfishers River Keeper program . Directions : Heading east bound on l-84 you would take exit #18 lewis andClark State park, just after you cross the Sandy River. Follow the riverupstream cross the bridge and the park will be on your left. We will be inthe large building just in the trees. from mevans@acxiom.com Wed Feb 3 11:13:42 1999 (5.5.2232.9) Subject: RE: Planes It has probably been mentioned, but Lowes carries a G12-060 -"contractor's grade plane. Itis a little nicer than the 020. It usually goes for around $39. ----------From: dickfuhrman@rheemote.com [SMTP:dickfuhrman@rheemote.com]Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 11:45 AM Subject: Planes Kevin and Others,Thanks for giving Kevin the correct number for the 9 1/2 Block Plane. Iwas trying to work from a faulty memory. I had slept the nightbefore. Kevin, Besides the URL that I gave you, also try:http:\\stanleyworks.com Then click on Contractor's Catalog, then on Hand/Carpentry, then onPlanes, and finally on Block Planes. The picture that comes up shouldbe of the 9 1/2 (12-920) Stanley Block Plane. There is also a "WheretoPurchase" button there. It will ask for your Zip Code Number. When Itried this it gave me nine retail stores in my area. Some I had nottried like K-Mart. Hope this helpsDick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net from HARMS1@prodigy.net Wed Feb 3 11:48:56 1999 Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:48:48 -0500 "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Impregnation =_NextPart_000_01BE4F73.705E1580" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE4F73.705E1580 I wonder if we could have a little discussion about the process ofimpregnation. Some makers already do it, while others of us may bewondering what's involved in materials, set-up and process. Also, how about impregnating/stabilizing reel-seats? Cheers, Bill ---------- Subject: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Impregnation I started this thread a little while ago. Thanks to all who responded. Ithas been very helpful. It certainly sounds as if impregnation is probablyone of the best ways to keep moisture out of a bamboo rod. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE4F73.705E1580 I wonder if we could have a= already do it, while others of us may be wondering what's involved in =materials, set-up and process.Also, how about = =is now ImpregnationDate: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 5:25 =PMI started=this thread a little while ago. Thanks to all who responded. It has been =very helpful. It certainly sounds as if impregnation is probably one of =the best ways to keep moisture out of a bamboo rod. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE4F73.705E1580-- from dmanders@telusplanet.net Wed Feb 3 12:36:17 1999 don") byedtnps05.telusplanet.net with SMTP id ; Wed, 3 Feb 199911:32:57 - 0700 Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Impregnation Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 11:32:37 -0700 Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Impregnation At 08:25 PM 2/2/99 -0500, you wrote: Arial0000,0000,ffffIstarted this thread a little while ago. Thanks to all who responded. Ithas been very helpful. It certainly sounds as if impregnation is probablyone of the best ways to keep moisture out of a bamboo rod. BookAntiqua0000,8080,8080 from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed Feb 3 13:22:56 1999 (5.5.2407.0) "'dickfuhrman@rheemote.com'" Subject: RE: Planes this is I think, the cheapest price for a Stanley block plane. http://www.williamalden.com/ ----------From: dickfuhrman@rheemote.com[SMTP:dickfuhrman@rheemote.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 9:44 AM Subject: Planes Kevin and Others,Thanks for giving Kevin the correct number for the 9 1/2 Block Plane. Iwas trying to work from a faulty memory. I had slept the night before. Kevin, Besides the URL that I gave you, also try:http:\\stanleyworks.com Then click on Contractor's Catalog, then on Hand/Carpentry, then onPlanes, and finally on Block Planes. The picture that comes up shouldbe of the 9 1/2 (12-920) Stanley Block Plane. There is also a "Where toPurchase" button there. It will ask for your Zip Code Number. When Itried this it gave me nine retail stores in my area. Some I had nottried like K-Mart. Hope this helpsDick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net from Kevin.Burkhardt@ipaper.com Wed Feb 3 13:36:51 1999 via NOTES ," - (052)dickfuhrman(a)rheemote.com" Subject: RE: Planes All, thanks for all of the response on Stanley planes...FYI... Lowes here in Ohiohas the g12-920 adj. throat contractor grade for under $30...I picked oneupbecause of the low price. I am still interested in Munro's 9 1/2 model too. differences between that and the more mass produced Stanleys? (Jon,feel freeto jump in here!) thanks Kev from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed Feb 3 14:21:47 1999 smtp.clarityconnect.comwith ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1a3); Wed, 3 Feb 199915:21:45-0500 (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1b4); Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:14:54 -0500 Subject: Apology boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0081_01BE4F80.4924A8A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0081_01BE4F80.4924A8A0 Sorry to the list for the last message to TA. Went to the wrong place. = Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod Company)140 E. Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) 277-4510www.munrorodco.com ------=_NextPart_000_0081_01BE4F80.4924A8A0 Sorry to the list for the last = Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod = Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) =277- 4510www.munrorodco.com ------=_NextPart_000_0081_01BE4F80.4924A8A0-- from bjust@bellsouth.net Wed Feb 3 14:33:09 1999 Subject: Gatlinburg Gathering I don't know what has previously been discussed because I am new to thelist, however there is a Federation of Flyfishers show planned Aug. 4-7in Gatlinburg. I would not have much to offer(I'm new to rodmaking)butI would enjoy talking to and learning from other rodmakers. If anyoneknows for sure if this is going to happen please let me know because Idon't want to miss it. Brian Justiss from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed Feb 3 15:06:22 1999 smtp.clarityconnect.comwith ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1a3); Wed, 3 Feb 199916:06:21-0500 (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1b4); Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:22:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Sanding glue off blank boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0096_01BE4F81.46F6AFA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0096_01BE4F81.46F6AFA0 Hmmm...Shell Epon is strong as hell and has a great working time. I =know I am new at this but what other glues allow you to go back 18 hour =later and wet straighten, dries to a blond (almost cane) color, cleans = in no time with white vinegar (learned that from Chris B.), and let's =the binding thread pull right off? Discussed a quote today in class and it made me think of someone. "Our =beliefs are not automatically updated by the best evidence available. =They often have an active life of their own and fight tenaciously for =their own survival." D. Marks and R. Kammann Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod Company)140 E. Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) 277-4510www.munrorodco.com-----Original Message----- From: Terence Ackland Cc: Rodmakers (E-mail) Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 4:13 PMSubject: Re: Sanding glue off blank if you had washed the newly glued up blank with a cloth and plenty =of water there would have been nothing but a fuzzy line from removing =the cord. A small block of wood and some 220 will remove the lines in a = I'm presently sanding the glue off my first blank. I'm having a =tough time knowing when to stop. Since the glue is beige (urac), the =enamel is beige and the bamboo is beige, I can't go by the color of the =dust on the sandpaper. I've been taking measurements along the blank, =hoping that when I'm exactly on taper, I'll have removed only the layer =of glue. In theory, this may be right but in practice, I'm not so sure =since there's the possibly that the blank has swelled a little from =gluing or from taking on some moisture. After about one hour of gingerly =sanding, I'm still a bit over my taper dimensions.Should you just see =the power fibers through a haze? Should you be right at the power =fibers? By the time you are right at the power fibers, haven't you cut =through some? I'd really appreciate it if someone could describe what =the cane should look like once the glue and enamel are removed.Thanks in = ------=_NextPart_000_0096_01BE4F81.46F6AFA0 Hmmm...Shell Epon is strong ashell = allow you to go back 18 hour later and wet straighten, dries to a blond = cane) color, cleans up in no time with white vinegar = Chris B.), and let's the binding thread pull right off? Discussed a quote today in classand = think of someone. "Our beliefs are not automatically updated by the = tenaciously for their own survival." D. Marks and R. =KammannJon Lintvet (Munro Rod = Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) =277- 4510www.munrorodco.com -----Original = Rodmakers (E-mail) <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Tuesday, February 02, 1999 4:13 PMSubject: Re: = off blankRichard, if you had washed the = nothing but a fuzzy line from removing the cord. A small block of = scotchbrite pad. Should take no more than 1/2 hour. I'll = presently = glue off my first blank. I'm having a tough time knowing when to = Since the glue is beige (urac), the enamel is beige and the = beige, I can't go by the color of the dust on the sandpaper. = taking measurements along the blank, hoping that when I'm = taper, I'll have removed only the layer of glue. In theory, this = right but in practice, I'm not so sure since there's the = the blank has swelled a little from gluing or from taking on = moisture. After about one hour of gingerly sanding, I'm still a = my taper dimensions.Should you = power fibers through a haze? Should you be right at the power = the time you are right at the power fibers, haven't you cut = really = it if someone could describe what the cane should look like once = glue and enamel areremoved.Thanks ------=_NextPart_000_0096_01BE4F81.46F6AFA0-- from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed Feb 3 15:29:31 1999 smtp.clarityconnect.comwith ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1a3); Wed, 3 Feb 199916:29:23-0500 (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1b4); Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:14:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Sanding glue off blank boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0079_01BE4F80.211B5480" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0079_01BE4F80.211B5480 Once again, you missed the point. Nowhere did I say to sand away power =fibers because of excess glue. I said let the blank be if it is =oversized (due to planing) and increase the line weight. What's that =saying? "measure twice, cut once" ... how about "think twice, don't type =at all. Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod Company)140 E. Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) 277-4510www.munrorodco.com-----Original Message----- From: Terence Ackland Cc: Rodmakers (E-mail) Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 7:54 PMSubject: Re: Sanding glue off blank If you plane to the top of accurately set planing forms, there is no =need to check the finished blank after glue up. Using adhesives like =Resorcinol, Urac and even Titebond that contain a proportion of walnut =shell flour, it is impossible for a blank to mic up at twice the spline = If the splines measured ok before gluing and a few thou oversize =after gluing, it is not a problem. There is, after all, the right amount = I see no sense in removing power fibers because you perhaps have = I am a big fan of seeing the power fibers. Sand until you are =sure the glue is off. Look under a light or window and you should be =able to see some sort of reflection. In the whole scheme of things I =wouldn't worry all to much about the few fibers you sever while sanding. =If you are close to the taper...great...I don't think I would sand =.004" of each spline to hit the taper if the rod was oversized. I would = Subject: Sanding glue off blankI'm presently sanding the =glue off my first blank. I'm having a tough time knowing when to stop. =Since the glue is beige (urac), the enamel is beige and the bamboo is =beige, I can't go by the color of the dust on the sandpaper. I've been =taking measurements along the blank, hoping that when I'm exactly on =taper, I'll have removed only the layer of glue. In theory, this may be =right but in practice, I'm not so sure since there's the possibly that =the blank has swelled a little from gluing or from taking on some =moisture. After about one hour of gingerly sanding, I'm still a bit over =my taper dimensions.Should you just see the power fibers through a haze?=Should you be right at the power fibers? By the time you are right at =the power fibers, haven't you cut through some? I'd really appreciate it =if someone could describe what the cane should look like once the glue =and enamel are removed.Thanks in advance, Richard = ------=_NextPart_000_0079_01BE4F80.211B5480 Once again, you missed the = blank be if it is oversized (due to planing) and increase the line = "think twice, don't type at all.Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod = Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) =277- 4510www.munrorodco.com -----Original = Rodmakers (E-mail) <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Tuesday, February 02, 1999 7:54 PMSubject: Re: = off blankIf you plane to the top of accurately = planing forms, there is no need to check the finished blank after = Using adhesives like Resorcinol, Urac and even Titebond that contain = proportion of walnut shell flour, it is impossible for a blank to = twice the spline dimension. Adhesives take up space and there are 6 = lines. If the splines measured ok before gluing and a few thou = after gluing, it is not a problem. There is, after all, the right = cane in the rod, only the glue line perhaps varies. I see no = would sand .004" of each spline to hit the taper if the rod = Jon Lintvet (Munro <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Date: Monday, = 1999 9:57 PM Subject: Sanding glue off =blankI'm presently sanding the glue off my first blank. = having a tough time knowing when to stop. Since the glue is = (urac), the enamel is beige and the bamboo is beige, I can't = measurements along the blank, hoping that when I'm exactly = I'll have removed only the layer of glue. In theory, this = right but in practice, I'm not so sure since there's the = that the blank has swelled a little from gluing or from = some moisture. After about one hour of gingerly sanding, I'm = bit over my taper =dimensions.Should = power fibers through a haze? Should you be right at the = fibers? By the time you are right at the power fibers, = really appreciate it if someone could describe what the cane = removed.Thanks in= 485- ------=_NextPart_000_0079_01BE4F80.211B5480-- from fiveside@net-gate.com Wed Feb 3 15:42:23 1999 ns1.net-gate.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA08341 for; Wed, 3 Subject: Appropriate Quotes To the ListMaybe Jon started a new thread with his quote. Can't resist sending alongone of my favorites: The most difficult thing in the world is to know howtodo a thing and to watch someone else do it wrong without comment. Bill from hexagon@odyssee.net Wed Feb 3 16:17:48 1999 Subject: Re: Sanding glue off blank 5D42BB5C3E3E892D29138B62" --------------5D42BB5C3E3E892D29138B62 I once tried epoxy, I used the West System on two sets of blanks. Whenthe adhesive had cured I used some heat to remove a twist in the buttsection and it came apart. I contacted the company and they said thattheir adhesive had no heat resistance. I put what was left of the twoblanks in the corner of my workshop and forgot about them.I came across them a couple of years later when I decided to have a tidyup. I gave a tip section a bend and it came apart completely, everyspline delaminated. The other tip did the same. I had used what theycalled a small job pack, it was two sachets that you mixed together, soI could not have made a mistake with the quantities. I was glad that Idid not sell any rods made with the West epoxy.I am not suggesting that you will have this problem with the epoxy youare using but you must remember that you are using a product with noreal track record in the lamination of bamboo.Urea Formaldehyde, whether mixed with phenol, resorcinol or melaminehave a long documented history in the production of wood products usedas an engineering material.Cane rods have been made with these glues for over 70 years withoutproblems.I know that if I laminate my rods using the Urea family of adhesives,the glue line will last at least 70 years.Can you say that with certainty with epoxy?There is an excellent publication by the FPL called The Encyclopedia ofWood that has a great chapter on Adhesives and gluing.I prefer to get my advice from technical journals, it is generally morereliable.Terry Ackland Jon Lintvet wrote: Hmmm...Shell Epon is strong as hell and has a great working time. Iknow I am new at this but what other glues allow you to go back 18hour later and wet straighten, dries to a blond (almost cane) color,cleans upin no time with white vinegar (learned that from Chris B.),and let's the binding thread pull right off? Discussed a quote todayin class and it made me think of someone. "Our beliefs are notautomatically updated by the best evidence available. They often havean active life of their own and fight tenaciously for their ownsurvival." D. Marks and R. Kammann Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod Company)140 E. Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) 277-4510www.munrorodco.com -----Original Message-----From: Terence Ackland Cc: Rodmakers (E-mail) Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 4:13 PMSubject: Re: Sanding glue off blankRichard,if you had washed the newly glued up blank with a clothand plenty of water there would have been nothing but afuzzy line from removing the cord. A small block of wood andsome 220 will remove the lines in a few minutes. Finish offwith a scotchbrite pad.Should take no more than 1/2 hour.I'll never undrstand why some builders use epoxy.regards, Terry Richard Nantel wrote: I'm presently sanding the glue off my first blank. I'mhaving a tough time knowing when to stop. Since the glueis beige (urac), the enamel is beige and the bamboo isbeige, I can't go by the color of the dust on thesandpaper. I've been taking measurements along the blank,hoping that when I'm exactly on taper, I'll have removedonly the layer of glue. In theory, this may be right butin practice, I'm not so sure since there's the possiblythat the blank has swelled a little from gluing or fromtaking on some moisture. After about one hour of gingerlysanding, I'm still a bit over my taper dimensions.Shouldyou just see the power fibers through a haze? Should yoube right at the power fibers? By the time you are right atthe power fibers, haven't you cut through some? I'd reallyappreciate it if someone could describe what the caneshould look like once the glue and enamel areremoved.Thanks in advance, Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca(514) 485-2287 --------------5D42BB5C3E3E892D29138B62 I once tried epoxy, I used the West System on two sets of blanks. Whenthe adhesive had cured I used some heat to remove a twist in the buttsectionand it came apart. I contacted the company and they said that theiradhesive the corner of my workshop and forgot about them.I came across them a couple of years later when I decided to have atidy up. I gave a tip section a bend and it came apart completely, every called a small job pack, it was two sachets that you mixed together, soI could not have made a mistake with the quantities. I was glad that Idid not sell any rods made with the West epoxy.I am not suggesting that you will have this problem with the epoxyyou are using but you must remember that you are using a product with noreal track record in the lamination of bamboo. melamine used as an engineering material.Cane rods have been made with these glues for over 70 years withoutproblems. adhesives,the glue line will last at least 70 years.Can you say that with certainty with epoxy?There is an excellent publication by the FPL called The Encyclopediaof Wood that has a great chapter on Adhesives and gluing.I prefer to get my advice from technical journals, it is more reliable.Terry Ackland Jon Lintvet wrote: I am new at this but what other glues allow you to go back 18 hour laterand wet straighten, dries to a blond (almost cane) color, cleansupinno time with white vinegar (learned that from Chris B.), and let's the a quote today in class and it made me think of someone. "Our beliefs are oftenhave an active life of their own and fight tenaciously for their ownsurvival."D. Marks and R. Kammann Jon Lintvet (Munro RodCompany)140 E. SpencerSt.Ithaca, NY14850(800) 836-7558 or (607)277-4510www.munrorodco.com-----OriginalMessage----- From: Terence Ackland<hexagon@odyssee.net> <richard.nantel@videotron.ca>Cc: Rodmakers (E- mail)<rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu>Date: Tuesday, February02,1999 4:13 PMSubject: Re: Sanding glueoffblankRichard, and plenty of water there would have been nothing but a fuzzy line fromremoving the cord. A small block of wood and some 220 will remove thelinesin a few minutes. Finish off with a scotchbrite pad.Should take no more than 1/2 hour.I'll never undrstand why some builders use epoxy.regards, Terry Richard Nantel wrote: presently sanding the glue off my first blank. I'm having a tough timeknowing when to stop. Since the glue is beige (urac), the enamel is beigeand the bamboo is beige, I can't go by the color of the dust on thesandpaper.I've been taking measurements along the blank, hoping that when I'mexactlyon taper, I'll have removed only the layer of glue. In theory, this maybe right but in practice, I'm not so sure since there's the possibly thatthe blank has swelled a little from gluing or from taking on somemoisture.After about one hour of gingerly sanding, I'm still a bit over my taperdimensions.Shouldyou just see the power fibers through a haze? Should you be right at thepower fibers? By the time you are right at the power fibers, haven't you reallyappreciate it if someone could describe what the cane should look likeonce the glue and enamel are removed.Thanksin advance, Richardrichard.nantel@videotron.ca(514)485-2287 --------------5D42BB5C3E3E892D29138B62-- from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Wed Feb 3 16:19:26 1999 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id QAA04921 for; (8.8.4/8.6.8) with SMTP idQAA18732 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:19:21 Subject: Search the archives I've cooked up a web page that searches the list's archives for aword or topic. It works OK for searching the "Subject" and "From" lines but is slow (by design) when searching the body of the messages. You can find it at http://www.uwm.edu/~stetzer/rma/rmsearch.html My intention is to keep it current, as long as the guys in the basement don't complain about the disk space I'm using. They call these things "search engines" this is more of a "search ox cart".`......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Feb 3 17:40:46 1999 via smap (4.1) 15:44:51 PST Subject: RE: Silk Thread Richard, The thread I have used with the 100/3 designation is somewhat largerthan A in my opinion. It is usually a little thicker than people prefer for tips, but is fine over ferrules or for butt sections I suppose. At $3.80 for a 100 meter spool, I'm not sure it's really a great deal. Anglers sells the YLI 3/0 silk for about $6.00 in a 200 yrd. spool. Sounds like a similar price if you factor in the conversion of yards to meters. However, if you're only buying one spool then the $4.00 in shipping blows my pricing theory. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from dmanders@telusplanet.net Wed Feb 3 18:10:08 1999 don") byedtnps05.telusplanet.net with SMTP id ; Wed, 3 Feb 199917:09:48 - 0700 Subject: WARNING !! :Badtimes Virus VIRUS ALERT ! !! ! ! If you receive an e-mail entitled "Badtimes,"delete it immediatelyDo not open itApparently this one is pretty nastyIt will not only erase everything on your hard drive, but it willalso delete anything on disks within 20 feet of your computerIt demagnetizes the stripes on ALL of your credit cardsIt reprograms your ATM access code, screws up the tracking on yourVCR and uses subspace field harmonics to scratch any CD's youattemptto playIt will re-calibrate your refrigerator's coolness settings so allyour ice cream melts and your milk curdlesIt will program your phone autodial to call only yourmother-in-law's numberThis virus will mix antifreeze into your fish tankIt will drink all your beerIt will leave dirty socks on the coffee table when you are expectingcompanyIts radioactive emissions will cause your toe jam and bellybuttonfuzz (be honest, you have some) to migrate behind your earsIt will replace your shampoo with Nair and your Nair with Rogaine,all while dating your current boy/girlfriend behind your back andbilling their hotel rendezvous to your Visa cardIt will cause you to run with scissors and throw things in a waythat is only fun until someone loses an eyeIt will give you Dutch Elm Disease and TineaIt will rewrite your backup files, changing all your active verbs topassive tense and incorporating undetectable misspellings whichgrossly change the interpretations of key sentencesIf the "Badtimes" message is opened in a Windows95 environment, itwill leave the toilet seat up and leave your hair dryer plugged indangerously close to a full bathtubIt will not only remove the forbidden tags from your mattresses andpillows, but it will also refill your skim milk with whole milkIt will replace all your luncheon meat with SpamIt will molecularly rearrange your cologne or perfume, causing it tosmell like dill picklesIt is insidious and subtleIt is dangerous and terrifying to beholdIt is also a rather interesting shade of mauveThese are just a few signs of infectionPLEASE FORWARD THIS MESSAGE TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW!!! from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Feb 3 18:51:32 1999 Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:48:45 -0600 Subject: Re: Search the archives Good Job, Frank! Again! You've made it almost simple to find what I'mlookingfor.Harry from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Feb 3 19:03:09 1999 sims.3.5.1998.03.08.20.27)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, Subject: RE: WARNING !! :Badtimes Virus I've received 4 of these warning messages just this week. The BadtimesVirus, the Pen Pal virus, the Goodtime virus, etc. Guys and gals, these arejust hoaxes. Richard -----Original Message----- Andersen Subject: WARNING !! :Badtimes Virus VIRUS ALERT ! !! ! ! If you receive an e-mail entitled "Badtimes,"delete it immediatelyDo not open itApparently this one is pretty nastyIt will not only erase everything on your hard drive, but it willalso delete anything on disks within 20 feet of your computerIt demagnetizes the stripes on ALL of your credit cardsIt reprograms your ATM access code, screws up the tracking on yourVCR and uses subspace field harmonics to scratch any CD's youattemptto playIt will re-calibrate your refrigerator's coolness settings so allyour ice cream melts and your milk curdlesIt will program your phone autodial to call only yourmother-in-law's numberThis virus will mix antifreeze into your fish tankIt will drink all your beerIt will leave dirty socks on the coffee table when you are expectingcompanyIts radioactive emissions will cause your toe jam and bellybuttonfuzz (be honest, you have some) to migrate behind your earsIt will replace your shampoo with Nair and your Nair with Rogaine,all while dating your current boy/girlfriend behind your back andbilling their hotel rendezvous to your Visa cardIt will cause you to run with scissors and throw things in a waythat is only fun until someone loses an eyeIt will give you Dutch Elm Disease and TineaIt will rewrite your backup files, changing all your active verbs topassive tense and incorporating undetectable misspellings whichgrossly change the interpretations of key sentencesIf the "Badtimes" message is opened in a Windows95 environment, itwill leave the toilet seat up and leave your hair dryer plugged indangerously close to a full bathtubIt will not only remove the forbidden tags from your mattresses andpillows, but it will also refill your skim milk with whole milkIt will replace all your luncheon meat with SpamIt will molecularly rearrange your cologne or perfume, causing it tosmell like dill picklesIt is insidious and subtleIt is dangerous and terrifying to beholdIt is also a rather interesting shade of mauveThese are just a few signs of infectionPLEASE FORWARD THIS MESSAGE TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW!!! from hexagon@odyssee.net Wed Feb 3 19:45:00 1999 Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Impregnation I get my reel seat inserts impregnated by a company called Waterloo WoodBearings.They do a good job, the process certainly stabilizes birds eye maple.I asked them once what they used but they refused to tell me ( don't youjust hate peoplelike that?) There is a definite plastic smell when you turn the processedwood. It could beacrylic. They offered to impregnate a piece of cane for me but I was notsure it was what Iwanted. I did not want apiece of cane so modified that it lost the characteristics of cane, which Ifelt theirprocess would do.If anyone on the list wanted to try it out I am sure that the company wouldimpregnate asample.Terry Ackland Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 11:32:37 -0700 From: Don & Sandy Andersen Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is nowImpregnation References: At 08:25 PM 2/2/99 -0500, you wrote: I started this thread a little while ago. Thanks to all whoresponded. It hasbeen very helpful. It certainly sounds as if impregnation is probably one ofthe best ways tokeep moisture out of a bamboo rod. Richard, The company where I got the impregnated wood inserts talked aboutin tier literatureimmersion of their impregnated wood products in water over nite and theamount of water thatthe wood takes up during this period and the fact that it seems to leavethe wood rapidlywithout causing problems.While I have no experience with impregnation, I would think that theyhave. Best checkit out. Don from hexagon@odyssee.net Wed Feb 3 19:50:33 1999 Subject: Re: WARNING !! :Badtimes Virus You mean you cannot really catch it, even if you sat on a warm toilet seat? Richard Nantel wrote: I've received 4 of these warning messages just this week. The BadtimesVirus, the Pen Pal virus, the Goodtime virus, etc. Guys and gals, thesearejust hoaxes. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu AndersenSent: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 6:51 PM Subject: WARNING !! :Badtimes Virus VIRUS ALERT ! !! ! ! If you receive an e-mail entitled "Badtimes,"delete it immediatelyDo not open itApparently this one is pretty nastyIt will not only erase everything on your hard drive, but it willalso delete anything on disks within 20 feet of your computerIt demagnetizes the stripes on ALL of your credit cardsIt reprograms your ATM access code, screws up the tracking onyourVCR and uses subspace field harmonics to scratch any CD's youattemptto playIt will re-calibrate your refrigerator's coolness settings so allyour ice cream melts and your milk curdlesIt will program your phone autodial to call only yourmother-in-law's numberThis virus will mix antifreeze into your fish tankIt will drink all your beerIt will leave dirty socks on the coffee table when you areexpectingcompanyIts radioactive emissions will cause your toe jam and bellybuttonfuzz (be honest, you have some) to migrate behind your earsIt will replace your shampoo with Nair and your Nair with Rogaine,all while dating your current boy/girlfriend behind your back andbilling their hotel rendezvous to your Visa cardIt will cause you to run with scissors and throw things in a waythat is only fun until someone loses an eyeIt will give you Dutch Elm Disease and TineaIt will rewrite your backup files, changing all your active verbs topassive tense and incorporating undetectable misspellings whichgrossly change the interpretations of key sentencesIf the "Badtimes" message is opened in a Windows95 environment,itwill leave the toilet seat up and leave your hair dryer plugged indangerously close to a full bathtubIt will not only remove the forbidden tags from your mattressesandpillows, but it will also refill your skim milk with whole milkIt will replace all your luncheon meat with SpamIt will molecularly rearrange your cologne or perfume, causing ittosmell like dill picklesIt is insidious and subtleIt is dangerous and terrifying to beholdIt is also a rather interesting shade of mauveThese are just a few signs of infectionPLEASE FORWARD THIS MESSAGE TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW!!! from jaquin@netsync.net Wed Feb 3 20:02:30 1999 quartz.netsync.net(8.9.2/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA05427; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:02:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Making twined Leaders Canerods@aol.com wrote: All, The ISP that I used was purchased, ceased it's own internet service, andI'vebeen off-line for the best part of a week until the new ISP's software CDarrived. Please delete the flyfisher@cmix.com address from your address books. I'm glad I kept AOL as a backup. (only costs me $9.95 extra/mt. withtheir BYOInternet pricing plan) Don BurnsCanerods@aol.comhi don & all, there was a thread a couple months ago on making twinedleaders. anybody have the URL address? tia jerry from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Feb 3 20:54:39 1999 Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:50:40 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: RE: WARNING !! :Badtimes Virus The warning is in effect the virus. At least the agrivation ofgetting them dosn't damage anything. Tony On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Richard Nantel wrote: I've received 4 of these warning messages just this week. The BadtimesVirus, the Pen Pal virus, the Goodtime virus, etc. Guys and gals, thesearejust hoaxes. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu AndersenSent: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 6:51 PM Subject: WARNING !! :Badtimes Virus VIRUS ALERT ! !! ! ! If you receive an e-mail entitled "Badtimes,"delete it immediatelyDo not open itApparently this one is pretty nastyIt will not only erase everything on your hard drive, but it willalso delete anything on disks within 20 feet of your computerIt demagnetizes the stripes on ALL of your credit cardsIt reprograms your ATM access code, screws up the tracking onyourVCR and uses subspace field harmonics to scratch any CD's youattemptto playIt will re-calibrate your refrigerator's coolness settings so allyour ice cream melts and your milk curdlesIt will program your phone autodial to call only yourmother-in-law's numberThis virus will mix antifreeze into your fish tankIt will drink all your beerIt will leave dirty socks on the coffee table when you areexpectingcompanyIts radioactive emissions will cause your toe jam and bellybuttonfuzz (be honest, you have some) to migrate behind your earsIt will replace your shampoo with Nair and your Nair with Rogaine,all while dating your current boy/girlfriend behind your back andbilling their hotel rendezvous to your Visa cardIt will cause you to run with scissors and throw things in a waythat is only fun until someone loses an eyeIt will give you Dutch Elm Disease and TineaIt will rewrite your backup files, changing all your active verbs topassive tense and incorporating undetectable misspellings whichgrossly change the interpretations of key sentencesIf the "Badtimes" message is opened in a Windows95 environment,itwill leave the toilet seat up and leave your hair dryer plugged indangerously close to a full bathtubIt will not only remove the forbidden tags from your mattressesandpillows, but it will also refill your skim milk with whole milkIt will replace all your luncheon meat with SpamIt will molecularly rearrange your cologne or perfume, causing ittosmell like dill picklesIt is insidious and subtleIt is dangerous and terrifying to beholdIt is also a rather interesting shade of mauveThese are just a few signs of infectionPLEASE FORWARD THIS MESSAGE TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW!!! /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb? A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from BambooRods@aol.com Wed Feb 3 21:06:26 1999 Subject: Re: Gatlinburg Gathering? I would be interested as well. I do know that the FFF Conclave is theresometime during the summer (I think).doug from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Feb 3 21:07:47 1999 Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:06:11 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Public aploigy Terry,I prob should send this privately but I decided to broadcast it by way ofpublic apoligy just in case you delete it un-read. I am genuinely happy tosee how sorely I used you in previous postings re never having anythinguseful to say was unfair. Your recent posts have been as one would expect from a person with your obvious experience which I sure all areapreciating.I'm pretty sure we'll never actually agree on much but this craft is worthcontinuing what ever the personal reason people have for doing it and yourknowleage when you choose to share it is too important to just squirelaway.NO I'm not sucking up to you, I'm happy to see I was wrong and I'madmiting it. Tony On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Terence Ackland wrote: I get my reel seat inserts impregnated by a company called WaterlooWood Bearings.They do a good job, the process certainly stabilizes birds eye maple.I asked them once what they used but they refused to tell me ( don't youjust hate peoplelike that?) There is a definite plastic smell when you turn the processedwood. It could beacrylic. They offered to impregnate a piece of cane for me but I was notsure it was what Iwanted. I did not want apiece of cane so modified that it lost the characteristics of cane, whichI felt theirprocess would do.If anyone on the list wanted to try it out I am sure that the companywould impregnate asample.Terry Ackland Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 11:32:37 -0700 From: Don & Sandy Andersen Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is nowImpregnation References: At 08:25 PM 2/2/99 -0500, you wrote: I started this thread a little while ago. Thanks to all whoresponded. It hasbeen very helpful. It certainly sounds as if impregnation is probably one ofthe best ways tokeep moisture out of a bamboo rod. Richard, The company where I got the impregnated wood inserts talked aboutin tier literatureimmersion of their impregnated wood products in water over nite and theamount of water thatthe wood takes up during this period and the fact that it seems to leavethe wood rapidlywithout causing problems.While I have no experience with impregnation, I would think thatthey have. Bestcheck it out. Don /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb? A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from channer@hubwest.com Wed Feb 3 21:09:47 1999 (SMTPD32-4.06) id AFD0CB2004E; Wed, 03 Feb 1999 20:11:12 MST Subject: RE: WARNING !! :Badtimes Virus At 10:50 AM 2/4/99 +0800, you wrote: The warning is in effect the virus. At least the agrivation ofgetting them dosn't damage anything. Tony At least this one was entertainingJohn from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Feb 3 21:24:48 1999 sims.3.5.1998.03.08.20.27)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, Subject: RE: WARNING !! :Badtimes Virus I get so many of these bogus warnings I don't even bother reading past thefirst line. This one is well worth the read! I retract my previous warningthat this is a hoax. This virus is REALLY virulent. It will cause you tosmile while reading your e-mail. Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: WARNING !! :Badtimes Virus In a message dated 2/3/99 5:04:10 PM Pacific Standard Time,richard.nantel@videotron.ca writes: I've received 4 of these warning messages just this week. The BadtimesVirus, the Pen Pal virus, the Goodtime virus, etc. Guys and gals, thesearejust hoaxes. Read this one. It's a joke - and hilarious! Darryl from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Feb 3 21:27:54 1999 sims.3.5.1998.03.08.20.27)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, Subject: RE: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Impregnation Terry, Is it necessary to impregnate reel seats? The guy who took my order atRECtried to convince me to pay an additional $16 U.S. (over the $31 base price) water. Well the seat might but my rod wouldn't. I opted for the basicvarnished bird's eye maple for only $4 more. Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Impregnation I get my reel seat inserts impregnated by a company called Waterloo WoodBearings.They do a good job, the process certainly stabilizes birds eye maple.I asked them once what they used but they refused to tell me ( don't youjust hate people like that?) There is a definite plastic smell when youturnthe processed wood. It could be acrylic. They offered to impregnate apieceof cane for me but I was not sure it was what I wanted. I did not want apiece of cane so modified that it lost the characteristics of cane, which Ifelt their process would do.If anyone on the list wanted to try it out I am sure that the company wouldimpregnate a sample.Terry Ackland Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 11:32:37 -0700 From: Don & Sandy Andersen Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is nowImpregnation References: At 08:25 PM 2/2/99 -0500, you wrote: I started this thread a little while ago. Thanks to all whoresponded. It has been very helpful. It certainly sounds as if impregnationis probably one of the best ways to keep moisture out of a bamboo rod. Richard, The company where I got the impregnated wood inserts talked aboutintier literature immersion of their impregnated wood products in waterovernite and the amount of water that the wood takes up during this period andthe fact that it seems to leave the wood rapidly without causing problems.While I have no experience with impregnation, I would think that theyhave. Best check it out. Don from jfoster@gte.net Wed Feb 3 21:33:23 1999 Subject: Re: Making twined Leaders mac-creator="4D4F5353" leader url http://www.danica.com/mj/tacktech/henk/henk1.htm jerry from destinycon@mindspring.com Thu Feb 4 07:57:02 1999 Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Impregnation At 08:46 PM 2/3/99 -0500, Terence Ackland wrote:I asked them once what they used but they refused to tell me ( don'tyou just hate people like that?) Terry Ackland Now That's funny!Regards,Gary H. from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Feb 4 08:23:52 1999 sims.3.5.1998.03.08.20.27)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, Subject: RE: Public aploigy A few people on this list will be surprised to hear this, but no one hashelped me through my first rod more than Terry Ackland. I benefit fromliving in the same city as he does and he has been EXTREMELY generous inproviding me with valuable advice and support. Richard PS. Terry, sorry to have blown your cover as a grinch but Tony was on toyou. -----Original Message----- Subject: Public aploigy Terry,I prob should send this privately but I decided to broadcast it by way ofpublic apoligy just in case you delete it un-read. I am genuinely happy tosee how sorely I used you in previous postings re never having anythinguseful to say was unfair. Your recent posts have been as one would expect from a person with your obvious experience which I sure all areapreciating.I'm pretty sure we'll never actually agree on much but this craft is worthcontinuing what ever the personal reason people have for doing it and yourknowleage when you choose to share it is too important to just squirelaway.NO I'm not sucking up to you, I'm happy to see I was wrong and I'madmiting it. Tony On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Terence Ackland wrote: I get my reel seat inserts impregnated by a company called WaterlooWoodBearings.They do a good job, the process certainly stabilizes birds eye maple.I asked them once what they used but they refused to tell me ( don't youjust hate people like that?) There is a definite plastic smell when youturnthe processed wood. It could be acrylic. They offered to impregnate apieceof cane for me but I was not sure it was what I wanted. I did not want apiece of cane so modified that it lost the characteristics of cane, whichI felt their process would do.If anyone on the list wanted to try it out I am sure that the companywould impregnate a sample.Terry Ackland Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 11:32:37 -0700 From: Don & Sandy Andersen Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is nowImpregnation References: At 08:25 PM 2/2/99 -0500, you wrote: I started this thread a little while ago. Thanks to all whoresponded. It has been very helpful. It certainly sounds as if impregnationis probably one of the best ways to keep moisture out of a bamboo rod. Richard, The company where I got the impregnated wood inserts talked aboutin tier literature immersion of their impregnated wood products in waterover nite and the amount of water that the wood takes up during thisperiodand the fact that it seems to leave the wood rapidly without causingproblems.While I have no experience with impregnation, I would think thatthey have. Best check it out. Don /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb?A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from dmanders@telusplanet.net Thu Feb 4 08:28:41 1999 don") byedtnps05.telusplanet.net with SMTP id ; Thu, 4 Feb 199907:28:25 - 0700 Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Impregnation At 08:46 PM 2/3/99 -0500, Terence Ackland wrote:I get my reel seat inserts impregnated by a company called WaterlooWoodBearings.They do a good job, the process certainly stabilizes birds eye maple.I asked them once what they used but they refused to tell me ( don't youjust hate people like that?) There is a definite plastic smell when youturn the processed wood. It could be acrylic. They offered to impregnate apiece of cane for me but I was not sure it was what I wanted. I did notwant apiece of cane so modified that it lost the characteristics of cane, whichI felt their process would do.If anyone on the list wanted to try it out I am sure that the companywould impregnate a sample.Terry Ackland Terry & the list, Use the same product and it is acrylic that they use for impregnation. Theyhave worked with bamboo but in only small pieces for the jewelry trade.When I talked to them last, they said that they would be interested intrying to impregnate a rod shaft for me.While determination of weight increases due to the impregnation chemicalwill be easy, other tests to figure out how the cane changes may take awhile. If anyone has some thought on this, give me a shout. Don from dmanders@telusplanet.net Thu Feb 4 08:28:42 1999 don") byedtnps05.telusplanet.net with SMTP id ; Thu, 4 Feb 199907:28:22 - 0700 Subject: Badtimes Virus - That was the point Richard & others, That was the point - most if not all of these Virus messages are BS -least this one is designed to be entertaining.Sorry if I offended anyone by forwarding the message - thought it mightdelay the shack nasties caused by too much snow and not enough fishing. Don from HARMS1@prodigy.net Thu Feb 4 08:30:57 1999 ext.prodigy.net JAA200272;Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:30:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Impregnation =_NextPart_000_01BE5020.F0685EE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE5020.F0685EE0 Yeah, Richard may have a point here with respect to impregnated reelseats.But I was thinking that some of the exotically-burled softwoods likecedarand redwood could certainly benefit from the impregnation process. But,come to think of it, even the hardwoods like maple and walnut areprobablyunstable if heavily burled (or figured with some other pattern). I don't suppose one needs special (or extra) protection against rain oreven occasional dunkings--surely our ordinary finishes are good enough toprotect against that. I think it's probably just the slow moisture-creep,and the inevitable process of seasonal swelling and drying that threatensto split the wildly figured grains of some of these reel seats. Straight-grained wood probably would not be at risk from this process. I once stabilized apple crotch-wood for some decorative detail on a boat Ibuilt (twenty years ago) by submerging it in boiling linseed oil forseveral hours (out of doors, only). The problem, however, is that it canbe very dangerous because of the fire hazard. And, too, the woodcontinued to "weep" the oil for many weeks--after which, the piecesremained stable and very hard. So the process seems ok--we just need abetter product for the soaking. I wonder--are there any commerciallyavailable phenolic resins? Perhaps, once the reel seat is shaped it could be totally immersed in the liquid (even if not boiled) for someperiod of time (hours? days?) and then allow it to dry and cure. Any thoughts out there? Cheers, Bill ----------From: Richard Nantel Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now ImpregnationDate: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 6:54 PM Terry, Is it necessary to impregnate reel seats? The guy who took my order atRECtried to convince me to pay an additional $16 U.S. (over the $31 baseprice) underwater. Well the seat might but my rod wouldn't. I opted for the basicvarnished bird's eye maple for only $4 more. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu AcklandSent: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 8:47 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Impregnation I get my reel seat inserts impregnated by a company called WaterlooWoodBearings.They do a good job, the process certainly stabilizes birds eye maple.I asked them once what they used but they refused to tell me ( don't youjust hate people like that?) There is a definite plastic smell when youturnthe processed wood. It could be acrylic. They offered to impregnate apieceof cane for me but I was not sure it was what I wanted. I did not want apiece of cane so modified that it lost the characteristics of cane, whichIfelt their process would do.If anyone on the list wanted to try it out I am sure that the companywouldimpregnate a sample.Terry Ackland Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 11:32:37 -0700 From: Don & Sandy Andersen Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is nowImpregnation References: At 08:25 PM 2/2/99 -0500, you wrote: I started this thread a little while ago. Thanks to all whoresponded. It has been very helpful. It certainly sounds as ifimpregnationis probably one of the best ways to keep moisture out of a bamboo rod. Richard, The company where I got the impregnated wood inserts talked aboutintier literature immersion of their impregnated wood products in waterovernite and the amount of water that the wood takes up during this periodandthe fact that it seems to leave the wood rapidly without causingproblems.While I have no experience with impregnation, I would think thattheyhave. Best check it out. Don ------=_NextPart_000_01BE5020.F0685EE0 Yeah, Richard may have a = thinking that some of the exotically-burled softwoods like cedar and =redwood could certainly benefit from the impregnation process. = walnut are probably unstable if heavily burled (or figured with some =other pattern).I don't suppose one needs special (or extra) =protection against rain or even occasional dunkings--surely our ordinary = probably just the slow moisture-creep, and the inevitable process of =seasonal swelling and drying that threatens to split the wildly figured = =would not be at risk from this process. I once stabilized =apple crotch-wood for some decorative detail on a boat I built (twenty =years ago) by submerging it in boiling linseed oil for several hours = which, = = totally immersed in the liquid (even if not boiled) for some period of =time (hours? days?) and then allow it to dry and cure. =convince me to pay an additional $16 U.S. (over the $31 base = Wednesday, = Don = varnished = = probably one of the best ways to keep moisture out of a bamboo = = that it seems to leave the wood rapidly without causing = ------=_NextPart_000_01BE5020.F0685EE0-- from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Thu Feb 4 08:48:57 1999 SMTP(Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1a3); Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:48:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Sanding glue off blank boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002F_01BE4FB9.926529C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01BE4FB9.926529C0 Hey Bill! How long have you been using the Shell? I agree proven =products are deserving of use, however, someone has to use the new stuff=to start a track record. Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod Company)140 E. Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) 277-4510www.munrorodco.com-----Original Message----- From: Terence Ackland Cc: Rodmakers (E-mail) Date: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 5:22 PMSubject: Re: Sanding glue off blank I once tried epoxy, I used the West System on two sets of blanks. =When the adhesive had cured I used some heat to remove a twist in the =butt section and it came apart. I contacted the company and they said =that their adhesive had no heat resistance. I put what was left of the = I came across them a couple of years later when I decided to have a =tidy up. I gave a tip section a bend and it came apart completely, every =spline delaminated. The other tip did the same. I had used what they =called a small job pack, it was two sachets that you mixed together, so =I could not have made a mistake with the quantities. I was glad that I = I am not suggesting that you will have this problem with the epoxy =you are using but you must remember that you are using a product with no= Urea Formaldehyde, whether mixed with phenol, resorcinol or =melamine have a long documented history in the production of wood = Cane rods have been made with these glues for over 70 years without = I know that if I laminate my rods using the Urea family of = There is an excellent publication by the FPL called The Encyclopedia = I prefer to get my advice from technical journals, it is generally = Hmmm...Shell Epon is strong as hell and has a great working =time. I know I am new at this but what other glues allow you to go =back 18 hour later and wet straighten, dries to a blond (almost cane) =color, cleans upin no time with white vinegar (learned that from Chris =B.), and let's the binding thread pull right off? Discussed a quote =today in class and it made me think of someone. "Our beliefs are not =automatically updated by the best evidence available. They often have =an active life of their own and fight tenaciously for their own = if you had washed the newly glued up blank with a cloth =and plenty of water there would have been nothing but a fuzzy line from =removing the cord. A small block of wood and some 220 will remove the = I'm presently sanding the glue off my first blank. I'm =having a tough time knowing when to stop. Since the glue is beige =(urac), the enamel is beige and the bamboo is beige, I can't go by the =color of the dust on the sandpaper. I've been taking measurements along =the blank, hoping that when I'm exactly on taper, I'll have removed only =the layer of glue. In theory, this may be right but in practice, I'm not =so sure since there's the possibly that the blank has swelled a little = from gluing or from taking on some moisture. After about one hour of =gingerly sanding, I'm still a bit over my taper dimensions.Should you =just see the power fibers through a haze? Should you be right at the =power fibers? By the time you are right at the power fibers, haven't you =cut through some? I'd really appreciate it if someone could describe =what the cane should look like once the glue and enamel are =removed.Thanks in advance, Richard richard.nantel@videotron.ca(514) =485-2287 ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01BE4FB9.926529C0 I agree proven products are deserving of use, however, someone has to = new stuff to start a track record.Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod = Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) =277- 4510www.munrorodco.com -----Original = Rodmakers (E-mail) <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Wednesday, February 03, 1999 5:22 PMSubject: Re: = off blankI once tried epoxy, I used the West = two sets of blanks. When the adhesive had cured I used some heat to = twist in the butt section and it came apart. I contacted the company = left of the two blanks in the corner of my workshop and forgot about = I came across them a couple of years later when I decided to = up. I gave a tip section a bend and it came apart completely, every = small job pack, it was two sachets that you mixed together, so I = have made a mistake with the quantities. I was glad that I did not = rods made with the West epoxy. I am not suggesting that you will = this problem with the epoxy you are using but you must remember that = using a product with no real track record in the lamination of = products used as an engineering material. Cane rods have been = these glues for over 70 years without problems. I know that if = laminate my rods using the Urea family of adhesives, the glue line = at least 70 years. Can you say that with certainty with epoxy? = is an excellent publication by the FPL called The Encyclopedia of = has a great chapter on Adhesives and gluing. I prefer to get my = to go back 18 hour later and wet straighten, dries to a blond = no time with white vinegar (learned that from Chris B.), and = = me think of someone. "Our beliefs are not automatically = their own and fight tenaciously for their own survival." D. = Jon Lintvet (Munro Cc: Rodmakers = <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Date: Tuesday, = blankRichard, if you had washed the = have been nothing but a fuzzy line from removing the cord. A = block of wood and some 220 will remove the lines in a few = Finish off with a scotchbrite pad. Should take no more = my first blank. I'm having a tough time knowing when to = Since the glue is beige (urac), the enamel is beige and = bamboo is beige, I can't go by the color of the dust on = sandpaper. I've been taking measurements along the = that when I'm exactly on taper, I'll have removed only = of glue. In theory, this may be right but in practice, = so sure since there's the possibly that the blank has = little from gluing or from taking on some moisture. = one hour of gingerly sanding, I'm still a bit over my = dimensions.Should you just see the power = through a haze? Should you be right at the power fibers? = time you are right at the power fibers, haven't you cut = = appreciate it if someone could describe what the cane = look like once the glue and enamel are = =485- ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01BE4FB9.926529C0-- from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Thu Feb 4 08:49:01 1999 SMTP(Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1a3); Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:49:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Planes The planes I sell are either manufactured by Record (which you are talkingabout and I love) or old Stanley's which I cannot keep in stock. Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod Company)140 E. Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) 277-4510www.munrorodco.com-----Original Message----- -(052)dickfuhrman(a)rheemote.com Subject: RE: Planes All, thanks for all of the response on Stanley planes...FYI... Lowes here inOhiohas the g12-920 adj. throat contractor grade for under $30...I picked oneupbecause of the low price. I am still interested in Munro's 9 1/2 modeltoo. differences between that and the more mass produced Stanleys? (Jon,feelfreeto jump in here!) thanks Kev from destinycon@mindspring.com Thu Feb 4 08:50:03 1999 Subject: Re: Search the archives Frank,What a convenience for us to use. THANKS!!Regards,Gary H. At 04:19 PM 2/3/99 -0600, Frank Stetzer wrote:I've cooked up a web page that searches the list's archives for aword or topic. It works OK for searching the "Subject" and "From" lines but is slow (by design) when searching the body of the messages. You can find it at http://www.uwm.edu/~stetzer/rma/rmsearch.html My intention is to keep it current, as long as the guys in the basement don't complain about the disk space I'm using. They call these things "search engines" this is more of a "search ox cart".`......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from jczimny@dol.net Thu Feb 4 09:23:44 1999 0500 "richard.nantel@videotron.ca" ,"hexagon@odyssee.net" ,"dmanders@telusplanet.net" Subject: RE: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Impregnation Yes, Bill, Phenolics are available. But, they turn medium woods dark.That's why most woodstabilizing operations use acrylics. However, acrylics tend to give thewood a blue caste.I've had my troubles turning burl and have turned away from because of thewaste and becauseof the instability and subsequent checking. I look for beautiful grainingand am content withthat.John Z -----Original Message----- dmanders@telusplanet.net Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is nowImpregnation Yeah, Richard may have a point here with respect to impregnated reelseats.But I was thinking that some of the exotically-burled softwoods likecedarand redwood could certainly benefit from the impregnation process. But,come to think of it, even the hardwoods like maple and walnut areprobablyunstable if heavily burled (or figured with some other pattern). I don't suppose one needs special (or extra) protection against rain oreven occasional dunkings--surely our ordinary finishes are good enough toprotect against that. I think it's probably just the slow moisture-creep,and the inevitable process of seasonal swelling and drying that threatensto split the wildly figured grains of some of these reel seats. Straight-grained wood probably would not be at risk from this process. I once stabilized apple crotch-wood for some decorative detail on a boat Ibuilt (twenty years ago) by submerging it in boiling linseed oil forseveral hours (out of doors, only). The problem, however, is that it canbe very dangerous because of the fire hazard. And, too, the woodcontinued to "weep" the oil for many weeks--after which, the piecesremained stable and very hard. So the process seems ok--we just need abetter product for the soaking. I wonder--are there any commerciallyavailable phenolic resins? Perhaps, once the reel seat is shaped it could be totally immersed in the liquid (even if not boiled) for someperiod of time (hours? days?) and then allow it to dry and cure. Any thoughts out there? Cheers, Bill ----------From: Richard Nantel Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now ImpregnationDate: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 6:54 PM Terry, Is it necessary to impregnate reel seats? The guy who took my order atRECtried to convince me to pay an additional $16 U.S. (over the $31 baseprice) underwater. Well the seat might but my rod wouldn't. I opted for the basicvarnished bird's eye maple for only $4 more. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu AcklandSent: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 8:47 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Impregnation I get my reel seat inserts impregnated by a company called WaterlooWoodBearings.They do a good job, the process certainly stabilizes birds eye maple.I asked them once what they used but they refused to tell me ( don't youjust hate people like that?) There is a definite plastic smell when youturnthe processed wood. It could be acrylic. They offered to impregnate apieceof cane for me but I was not sure it was what I wanted. I did not want apiece of cane so modified that it lost the characteristics of cane, whichIfelt their process would do.If anyone on the list wanted to try it out I am sure that the companywouldimpregnate a sample.Terry Ackland Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 11:32:37 -0700 From: Don & Sandy Andersen Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is nowImpregnation References: At 08:25 PM 2/2/99 -0500, you wrote: I started this thread a little while ago. Thanks to all whoresponded. It has been very helpful. It certainly sounds as ifimpregnationis probably one of the best ways to keep moisture out of a bamboo rod. Richard, The company where I got the impregnated wood inserts talked aboutintier literature immersion of their impregnated wood products in waterovernite and the amount of water that the wood takes up during this periodandthe fact that it seems to leave the wood rapidly without causingproblems.While I have no experience with impregnation, I would think thattheyhave. Best check it out. Don from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Feb 4 14:47:57 1999 Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Impregnation Richard,a reel seat that has been impregnated is very hard and can be buffed to abeautiful finish.A varnished reel seat will scratch and look rough in a short time and varyinsize with the humidity. This can cause epoxied butt caps to drop off etc.$16 seems a little steep to me, the impregnation process is expensive butnotthat much so.Terry Richard Nantel wrote: Terry, Is it necessary to impregnate reel seats? The guy who took my order atRECtried to convince me to pay an additional $16 U.S. (over the $31 baseprice) underwater. Well the seat might but my rod wouldn't. I opted for the basicvarnished bird's eye maple for only $4 more. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu AcklandSent: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 8:47 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Impregnation I get my reel seat inserts impregnated by a company called WaterlooWoodBearings.They do a good job, the process certainly stabilizes birds eye maple.I asked them once what they used but they refused to tell me ( don't youjust hate people like that?) There is a definite plastic smell when youturnthe processed wood. It could be acrylic. They offered to impregnate apieceof cane for me but I was not sure it was what I wanted. I did not want apiece of cane so modified that it lost the characteristics of cane, whichIfelt their process would do.If anyone on the list wanted to try it out I am sure that the companywouldimpregnate a sample.Terry Ackland Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 11:32:37 -0700 From: Don & Sandy Andersen Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is nowImpregnation References: At 08:25 PM 2/2/99 -0500, you wrote: I started this thread a little while ago. Thanks to all whoresponded. It has been very helpful. It certainly sounds as ifimpregnationis probably one of the best ways to keep moisture out of a bamboo rod. Richard, The company where I got the impregnated wood inserts talked aboutintier literature immersion of their impregnated wood products in waterovernite and the amount of water that the wood takes up during this periodandthe fact that it seems to leave the wood rapidly without causingproblems.While I have no experience with impregnation, I would think thattheyhave. Best check it out. Don from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Feb 4 14:58:04 1999 Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Impregnation Don,might be worth sending them oversize strips and finish planing them offafterimpregnation. The reel seat spacers I send them are roughed out and finishturnedafter impregnation because the process warps the wood considerably.Terry Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: At 08:46 PM 2/3/99 -0500, Terence Ackland wrote:I get my reel seat inserts impregnated by a company called WaterlooWoodBearings.They do a good job, the process certainly stabilizes birds eye maple.I asked them once what they used but they refused to tell me ( don't youjust hate people like that?) There is a definite plastic smell when youturn the processed wood. It could be acrylic. They offered to impregnateapiece of cane for me but I was not sure it was what I wanted. I did notwant apiece of cane so modified that it lost the characteristics of cane, whichI felt their process would do.If anyone on the list wanted to try it out I am sure that the companywould impregnate a sample.Terry Ackland Terry & the list, Use the same product and it is acrylic that they use for impregnation.Theyhave worked with bamboo but in only small pieces for the jewelry trade.When I talked to them last, they said that they would be interested intrying to impregnate a rod shaft for me.While determination of weight increases due to the impregnationchemicalwill be easy, other tests to figure out how the cane changes may take awhile. If anyone has some thought on this, give me a shout. Don from fiveside@net-gate.com Thu Feb 4 15:39:31 1999 ns1.net-gate.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA01571 for; Thu, 4 Subject: Epon and Polyurethane To Jon and the list,We used the Shell Epon on the Apollo program. I believe there's a good bitof it sitting on the moon. My first Epon-bonded rod is still fishing a lot.I made it in 1968.Question: has anyone tried the jelled polyurethane varnishes advertisedtowork with brush, pad etc? Bill from flyfortrout@hotmail.com Thu Feb 4 16:01:52 1999 Thu, 04 Feb 1999 14:01:17 PST Subject: Planing Forms I'm just beginning to research making my own bamboo. I obviously have several questions but will limit this to a few: 1)Any suggestions on getting planing forms at a reasonable cost? The cheapest I've seen is about $350 and this is a little out of my price range for a hobby I've never experienced. (Maybe a place to buy used forms?) I'm considering building, but this seems a bit beyond my ability. 2) How much do bamboo culms generally cost? 3) Does anyone know of a builder in the Colorado Springs area that would consider giving a class? Thanks! Greg Holland ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from Ed.Estlow@co.hennepin.mn.us Thu Feb 4 16:13:08 1999 1999 22:11:38 UT 16-1998)) id8625670E.0079CCB5 ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:10:22 -0600 Subject: Re: Planing Forms Think wooden forms. Several list members have web sites that describethebuilding process - Tony Young, Chris Bogart, Bruce Conner. See JerryFoster'ssite for urls. As was pointed out to me, building forms takes similar skilllevels to building rods and enhances the background knowledge. http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm Theres also a link to Demarest in NY for bamboo. I think culms cost approx.$18to $25 apiece depending on size, quantity, etc. Best regards,-Ed Estlow (Greg Holland) flyfortrout@hotmail.com on 02/04/99 04:01:17 PM Subject: Planing Forms I'm just beginning to research making my own bamboo. I obviously haveseveral questions but will limit this to a few: 1)Any suggestions on getting planing forms at a reasonable cost? Thecheapest I've seen is about $350 and this is a little out of my pricerange for a hobby I've never experienced. (Maybe a place to buy usedforms?) I'm considering building, but this seems a bit beyond myability. 2) How much do bamboo culms generally cost? 3) Does anyone know of a builder in the Colorado Springs area that wouldconsider giving a class? Thanks! Greg Holland ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Feb 4 16:30:25 1999 Subject: Re: Public aploigy Tony,very generous of you to admit you were wrong, I admire a man that admitshe is wrong.Luckily I am never wrong!OK, OK, just my sense of humour.I admit, I do try to be provocative and try to upset guys, but only to getsome ideas going.I know the guy with the cap has a cult like following on the list, and hecan show you howto build a cane fly rod. But that is just the start, the real satisfaction isin developingyour own style and discovering that you can build better rods than thoseyou made by thebook!I started of with Garrison's book and it is a great teaching book, as I havebeen told areall the knock offs. It took a couple of years before I had the confidenceto startquestioning the gospel and it has been so rewarding in many ways.I know this going to look conceited, it is not meant to be.Terryps. are we muckers again? Tony Young wrote: Terry,I prob should send this privately but I decided to broadcast it by way ofpublic apoligy just in case you delete it un-read. I am genuinely happy tosee how sorely I used you in previous postings re never having anythinguseful to say was unfair. Your recent posts have been as one wouldexpect from a person with your obvious experience which I sure all areapreciating.I'm pretty sure we'll never actually agree on much but this craft isworthcontinuing what ever the personal reason people have for doing it andyourknowleage when you choose to share it is too important to just squirelaway.NO I'm not sucking up to you, I'm happy to see I was wrong and I'madmiting it. Tony On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Terence Ackland wrote: I get my reel seat inserts impregnated by a company called WaterlooWood Bearings.They do a good job, the process certainly stabilizes birds eye maple.I asked them once what they used but they refused to tell me ( don'tyou just hate peoplelike that?) There is a definite plastic smell when you turn the processedwood. It could beacrylic. They offered to impregnate a piece of cane for me but I was notsure it was what Iwanted. I did not want apiece of cane so modified that it lost the characteristics of cane,which I felt theirprocess would do.If anyone on the list wanted to try it out I am sure that the companywould impregnate asample.Terry Ackland Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 11:32:37 -0700 From: Don & Sandy Andersen Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is nowImpregnation References: At 08:25 PM 2/2/99 -0500, you wrote: I started this thread a little while ago. Thanks to all whoresponded. It hasbeen very helpful. It certainly sounds as if impregnation is probably one ofthe best ways tokeep moisture out of a bamboo rod. Richard, The company where I got the impregnated wood inserts talkedabout in tierliterature immersion of their impregnated wood products in water overnite and the amount ofwater that the wood takes up during this period and the fact that it seemsto leave the woodrapidly without causing problems.While I have no experience with impregnation, I would think thatthey have. Bestcheck it out. Don /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb?A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from gaff@carol.net Thu Feb 4 17:01:23 1999 Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:01:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Public aploigy Terence Ackland wrote: Tony,very generous of you to admit you were wrong, I admire a man thatadmits he is wrong.Luckily I am never wrong!OK, OK, just my sense of humour.I admit, I do try to be provocative and try to upset guys, but only to getsome ideasgoing.I know the guy with the cap has a cult like following on the list, and hecan show you howto build a cane fly rod. But that is just the start, the real satisfaction isin developingyour own style and discovering that you can build better rods than thoseyou made by thebook!I started of with Garrison's book and it is a great teaching book, as Ihave been told areall the knock offs. It took a couple of years before I had the confidenceto startquestioning the gospel and it has been so rewarding in many ways.I know this going to look conceited, it is not meant to be.Terryps. are we muckers again? is muckers a whole word ?wil from jaquin@netsync.net Thu Feb 4 17:15:31 1999 quartz.netsync.net(8.9.2/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA02316; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:15:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Carbide-tipped Plane Blades Hi All, Just received my plane blade back from a machine shopspecializing in working carbide material. Has a 3/8 inch piece ofcarbide brazed to the working end of the blade, ground flush to theblade and a 45 degree cutting angle on it. This can be done reasonablyabout $35.00 including return postage. Anybody interested? contact meoff list. tia jerry from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Feb 4 18:28:31 1999 "tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au" "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" boundary="_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862608=_=_=_"Subject: RE: WARNING !! :Badtimes Virus --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862608=_=_=_ Tony If you want a real virus that is going around take a look here: http://www.msnbc.com/news/229572.asp#BODY Chris Regards Chris --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862608=_=_=_ Tony If you want a real virus that is going around take a look here: http://www.msnbc.com/news/229572.asp#BODY Chris --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862608=_=_=_-- from SealRite@aol.com Thu Feb 4 19:30:45 1999 Subject: Re: Badtimes Virus I had a software company demo some software on my PC a few years back. Itturns out the disk was infected with a virus called the Monkey Virus. Themost virulent thing i have ever seen. It caused us to totally rip a diskdrive out, and my mother board still gets an error when we do a virus scan.It was so bad, we physically isolated the office, red tagged all thediskettesuntil they were checked. If the PC read a diskette, it automatically copiedthe virus to the disk. It didn't need to boot from it. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Feb 4 21:10:56 1999 tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Subject: Re: Re: Public aploigy No Terry, we're not muckers again-I've been questioning Garrison for someyears now but what do I know-I'm just a retired beef cattle man- wefarmersthink we can do anything (because we've had to to survive)Regards,Hank W. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Feb 4 21:24:19 1999 jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Subject: Re: Re: Sanding glue off blank Terry,Not to be too picky,but if I take a taper and plane 1/2 dimension for thesplines when I glue up I get dimensions slightly greater than the originaltaper. BUT, didn't the original taper swell to more than twice the splinedimension originally? Perhaps we should plane to less than 1/2 the tapertoallow for final swell due to glue-how much?Just to let you know I'm not too serious about this I generally don'tworry about glue up changes and the rods seem to cast well.Regards, Hank. from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Feb 4 22:27:56 1999 (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP Fri, 5 Feb 1999 04:27:19 +0000 Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Impregnation I thought that I saw a posting from Terry that said he impregnates his rodblanks. If that (my memory) is correct, then I don't understand thisthread...why would impregnating the reel seat insert be any different? George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Impregnation At 08:46 PM 2/3/99 -0500, Terence Ackland wrote:I get my reel seat inserts impregnated by a company called WaterlooWoodBearings.They do a good job, the process certainly stabilizes birds eye maple.I asked them once what they used but they refused to tell me ( don't youjust hate people like that?) There is a definite plastic smell when youturn the processed wood. It could be acrylic. They offered to impregnateapiece of cane for me but I was not sure it was what I wanted. I did notwant apiece of cane so modified that it lost the characteristics of cane, whichI felt their process would do.If anyone on the list wanted to try it out I am sure that the companywould impregnate a sample.Terry Ackland Terry & the list, Use the same product and it is acrylic that they use for impregnation.Theyhave worked with bamboo but in only small pieces for the jewelry trade.When I talked to them last, they said that they would be interested intrying to impregnate a rod shaft for me.While determination of weight increases due to the impregnationchemicalwill be easy, other tests to figure out how the cane changes may take awhile. If anyone has some thought on this, give me a shout. Don from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Feb 4 22:35:58 1999 (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP Fri, 5 Feb 1999 04:35:25 +0000 ,, Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Impregnation Can PEG be used to stabilize burled wood so that it doesn't check andsplit?(I've seen its advertised usage as being to stabilize green wood.) George Bourke-----Original Message----- richard.nantel@videotron.ca; hexagon@odyssee.net;dmanders@telusplanet.net Subject: RE: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Impregnation Yes, Bill, Phenolics are available. But, they turn medium woods dark.That's why most wood stabilizing operations use acrylics. However,acrylicstend to give the wood a blue caste. I've had my troubles turning burl andhave turned away from because of the waste and because of the instabilityand subsequent checking. I look for beautiful graining and am content withthat.John Z -----Original Message-----From: WILLIAM A HARMS [SMTP:HARMS1@prodigy.net]Sent: Thursday, February 04, 1999 12:30 PM dmanders@telusplanet.netCc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Impregnation Yeah, Richard may have a point here with respect to impregnated reelseats.But I was thinking that some of the exotically-burled softwoods likecedarand redwood could certainly benefit from the impregnation process. But,come to think of it, even the hardwoods like maple and walnut areprobablyunstable if heavily burled (or figured with some other pattern). I don't suppose one needs special (or extra) protection against rain oreven occasional dunkings--surely our ordinary finishes are good enoughtoprotect against that. I think it's probably just the slow moisture-creep,and the inevitable process of seasonal swelling and drying that threatensto split the wildly figured grains of some of these reel seats.Straight-grained wood probably would not beat risk from this process. I once stabilized apple crotch-wood for some decorative detail on a boatIbuilt (twenty years ago) by submerging it in boiling linseed oil forseveral hours (out of doors, only). The problem, however, is that it canbe very dangerous because of the fire hazard. And, too, the woodcontinued to "weep" the oil for many weeks--after which, the piecesremained stable and very hard. So the process seems ok--we just need abetter product for the soaking. I wonder--are there any commerciallyavailable phenolic resins? Perhaps, once the reel seat is shapedit could be totally immersed in the liquid (even if not boiled) for someperiod of time (hours? days?) and then allow it to dry and cure. Any thoughts out there? Cheers, Bill ----------From: Richard Nantel Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now ImpregnationDate: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 6:54 PM Terry, Is it necessary to impregnate reel seats? The guy who took my order atRECtried to convince me to pay an additional $16 U.S. (over the $31 baseprice) underwater. Well the seat might but my rod wouldn't. I opted for the basicvarnished bird's eye maple for only $4 more. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu AcklandSent: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 8:47 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Impregnation I get my reel seat inserts impregnated by a company called WaterlooWoodBearings.They do a good job, the process certainly stabilizes birds eye maple.I asked them once what they used but they refused to tell me ( don't youjust hate people like that?) There is a definite plastic smell when youturnthe processed wood. It could be acrylic. They offered to impregnate apieceof cane for me but I was not sure it was what I wanted. I did not want apiece of cane so modified that it lost the characteristics of cane, whichIfelt their process would do.If anyone on the list wanted to try it out I am sure that the companywouldimpregnate a sample.Terry Ackland Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 11:32:37 -0700 From: Don & Sandy Andersen Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is nowImpregnation References: At 08:25 PM 2/2/99 -0500, you wrote: I started this thread a little while ago. Thanks to all whoresponded. It has been very helpful. It certainly sounds as ifimpregnationis probably one of the best ways to keep moisture out of a bamboo rod. Richard, The company where I got the impregnated wood inserts talkedaboutintier literature immersion of their impregnated wood products in waterovernite and the amount of water that the wood takes up during this periodandthe fact that it seems to leave the wood rapidly without causingproblems.While I have no experience with impregnation, I would think thattheyhave. Best check it out. Don from chris@artistree.com Fri Feb 5 01:27:09 1999 Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Impregnation mac-creator="4D4F5353" Don & Terry,I have always wondered if impregnating a "hollow built" rod would presentproblems. Foe example would the cavities fill up with the fluid? Just athought. --Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com Terry & the list, Use the same product and it is acrylic that they use for impregnation.Theyhave worked with bamboo but in only small pieces for the jewelry trade.When I talked to them last, they said that they would be interested intrying to impregnate a rod shaft for me.While determination of weight increases due to the impregnationchemicalwill be easy, other tests to figure out how the cane changes may take awhile. If anyone has some thought on this, give me a shout. Don from chris@artistree.com Fri Feb 5 01:43:24 1999 Subject: Stabilizied Reel Seats (was Impregnation) mac-creator="4D4F5353" John & Others,You might be interested in a new product available to wood turners that isused to stabilizeand prevent checking in wood. The product is called PENTACRYL. I've beenusing it for a fewmonths now and am very happy with it. I'll list the manufacture and areseller below. I wouldbe glad to provide some more info (tips on using) but it will have to wait afew days as I amreally tied up at the San Mateo Fly Fishing show. Preservation Solutions1060 Bunker Hill RoadJefferson ME 04348phone: (207) 563-5414email: knobloch@lincoln.midcoast.com PENTACRYL can also be purchased through:Packard WoodworksPO. Box 718Tryon, NC 28782phone: (800) 683-8876 --Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail:chris@artistree.com "J. C. Zimny" wrote: Yes, Bill, Phenolics are available. But, they turn medium woods dark.That's why most woodstabilizing operations use acrylics. However, acrylics tend to give thewood a blue caste.I've had my troubles turning burl and have turned away from because of thewaste and becauseof the instability and subsequent checking. I look for beautiful grainingand am content withthat.John Z from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Fri Feb 5 04:29:21 1999 (MET) Subject: Ferrule wrapping Dear Friends Any tips for wrapping ferrules without "legs" ( or how you say inenglish). Thanks Stefan - from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Fri Feb 5 05:41:55 1999 (MET) Subject: Pezon&Michel Dear Friends Heard from a french customer that the french firm Pezon&Michel in Francehas definitively closed her business. regards Stefan --Lang Info AccessDatenbanken - CD Rom - InternetliteraturInternet: http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/Stefan GrauInformation ConsultantMènzgraben 2CH-3011 Berne/Switzerlanddirect phone: ++41 ( 0 ) 31 310 84 91fax: 310 84 94ausgenommen:Montag vormittag,Dienstag nachmittagMittwoch ganzer Tag from efcarlsen@webtv.net Fri Feb 5 07:19:54 1999 105.iap.bryant.webtv.net 132.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id 132.iap.bryant.webtv.net(8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id FAA27845; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 05:19:52 -0800 ETAuAhUAuHAYz5gT4Uz3SBUPb4nFUkhktDYCFQCq/lKPzxeN3TKkh9+jrZXxsHzeWw== Subject: thread Does anyone know of a source for a dark brown silk (ala Heddon tipping).Have tried all of the YLI browns, Pearsall gossamer, Elephant, Cabelasand Angler Workshop. All of the browns are satisfactory for the mediumbrown wraps but just can not find any thing dark enough for the tips.Has any body had any experience dying thier own threads? BTW- it is possible to measure the thickness of threads. I use astainless rod with a known register on the shaft. (I use 1/4") . Wrapthread for the 1/4'" wrapping tightly, without crushing the thread.Count the wraps and divide it into the .250. This is the method use bymodel ship builders where they make thier own ropes and cables with arope walk. Some models require 80 to 100 different diameters of rope tobe at scale. Ed Carlsen from jefffly@choice.net Fri Feb 5 07:55:18 1999 IAA16887 Subject: Cross Sylph 7' 5-7wt. boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE50E5.28C53BE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE50E5.28C53BE0 Has anyone built this taper or does anyone use this rod on a regular =basis? I was wondering what your opinion is about how well it casts the =different line weights. I am looking at this as a smallmouth rod to a = Jeff ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE50E5.28C53BE0 Has anyone built this taper or does anyone use this = regular basis? I was wondering what your opinion is about how well it = different line weights. I am looking at this as a smallmouth rod to a = can be used in the wind. Jeff ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE50E5.28C53BE0-- from dmanders@telusplanet.net Fri Feb 5 08:38:16 1999 don") by eeyore.eon.netwith SMTP id ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 07:37:55 -0700 Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Impregnation Chris, from what I've seen on the stabilized wood inserts I've drilled andshaped,the acrylic goes "all the way through" without any voids.Expect the same thing would happen with hollow built rods. And on the same topic: Lee Valley Tools is selling a polyurethane product what it does.Product is in the Feb. '99 catalogue page 4 - called Poly All 2000Multi-Purpose Repair kit. Blurb describes penetration depths of 3/16".Might just work on rods. Don At 11:30 PM 2/4/99 +0000, Chris Wohlford wrote:Don & Terry,I have always wondered if impregnating a "hollow built" rod wouldpresentproblems. Foe example would the cavities fill up with the fluid? Just athought. --Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com Terry & the list, Use the same product and it is acrylic that they use for impregnation.Theyhave worked with bamboo but in only small pieces for the jewelrytrade.When I talked to them last, they said that they would be interested intrying to impregnate a rod shaft for me.While determination of weight increases due to the impregnationchemicalwill be easy, other tests to figure out how the cane changes may take awhile. If anyone has some thought on this, give me a shout. Don from RMargiotta@aol.com Fri Feb 5 08:40:45 1999 Subject: Fwd: thread boundary="part0_918225508_boundary" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_918225508_boundary --part0_918225508_boundary Subject: Re: thread Ed: Try Pinetree Quiltworks. They have Tire silk from Japan in Size 50 (aboutSize A). They have a color they say is dark brown, but I haven't tried it.They also carry YLI Size 100 (200m spools) for $4.00, much less thanAngler'sWorkshop. http://quilt.com/pinetree --Rich (No affiliation or business interest) --part0_918225508_boundary-- from BThoman@neonsoft.com Fri Feb 5 09:19:56 1999 Subject: RE: Sanding glue off blank I too have noticed this. I can final plane six strips and when they are puttogether and held with tape it is .002 - .004 oversize at each station. Idoubt that this can be swelling if I'm planing all six strips in an evening,measuring each and then taping them together. I'm wondering if whenboundand glued it will be closer to the final dimension. It's possible the gluewill provide a tighter fit to measure, although when I measure them I'mcompressing the section pretty tight. Has anyone else had thisexperience?This seems to be a consistent thing so I'm thinking I may experiment andsubtract .002 from each strip's final dimension during final planing. Thismay explain why most rods I've built seem to cast better with one lineweight heavier than the taper calls for. Brian ThomanThe Chattahoochee River Rod CompanyParker, Coloradohttp://www.bambooflyrods.com(303) 805-5733 -----Original Message-----From: FISHWOOL@aol.com [SMTP:FISHWOOL@aol.com]Sent: Thursday, February 04, 1999 8:09 PM jlintvet@clarityconnect.comCc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Sanding glue off blank Terry,Not to be too picky,but if I take a taper and plane 1/2 dimension forthesplines when I glue up I get dimensions slightly greater than theoriginaltaper. BUT, didn't the original taper swell to more than twice the splinedimension originally? Perhaps we should plane to less than 1/2 the tapertoallow for final swell due to glue-how much?Just to let you know I'm not too serious about this I generally don'tworry about glue up changes and the rods seem to cast well.Regards, Hank. from watson@cape-consult.co.uk Fri Feb 5 09:51:33 1999 Subject: Balance boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008B_01BE511F.1DBB4200" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01BE511F.1DBB4200 What/where is the best balance point for a rod?Is it in a different position for fly rods as opposed to others? from a =position of ingnorance I would imagine that the balance point on a fly =rod would want to be further forward than a float/coarse rod, to help =throw the line. Right or wrong?How do you determine where it should be and achieve it. Is it ever =adjusted once the rod is made and if so what is the best way?I do a little fly fishing but mostly coarse angling with a centrepin, =trotting a float downriver. If the weight is too far forward it can be =very tiring as the day progresses and it seems that it is best if the =balance point moves back towards the reel. This is easily done with =additional weight but this is also counterproductive as you simply end =up with a heavier rod - not such a good idea.Thoughts and comments pls - (hopefully a start to a new string?)Tim. ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01BE511F.1DBB4200 What/where is the best balancepoint = rod?Is it in a different position for fly rods as = point on a fly rod would want to be further forward than a float/coarse = help throw the line. Right or wrong?How do you determine where it should be andachieve = way?I do a little fly fishing but mostly coarse angling = can be very tiring as the day progresses and it seems that it is best if = additional weight but this is also counterproductive as you simply end = heavier rod - not such a good idea.Thoughts and comments pls - (hopefully a start to a= string?)Tim. ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01BE511F.1DBB4200-- from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Feb 5 13:04:02 1999 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Sanding glue off blank Hank,I set my forms accurately using a depth gauge and then double check.I plane to the top of the form and that is that, I never mic the cane at all,even when finished.Terry FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: Terry,Not to be too picky,but if I take a taper and plane 1/2 dimension forthesplines when I glue up I get dimensions slightly greater than theoriginaltaper. BUT, didn't the original taper swell to more than twice the splinedimension originally? Perhaps we should plane to less than 1/2 the tapertoallow for final swell due to glue-how much?Just to let you know I'm not too serious about this I generally don'tworry about glue up changes and the rods seem to cast well.Regards,Hank. from HARMS1@prodigy.net Fri Feb 5 13:12:46 1999 ext.prodigy.net OAA41112;Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:12:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Balance =_NextPart_000_01BE5111.7240DD20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE5111.7240DD20 Tim, Frankly, when designing a fly rod, I never think in terms of some optimalbalance point. There really isn't one, if only because this issue is fartoo greatly influenced by one's choice of reel seat, hardware (and, ofcourse, the reel itself) to be a factor in the rod's design. A rod'saction will be, only in part, a function of its balance point. Far moreimportant to a rod's "feel" is the configuration of its taper -- aimed atkeeping overall weight to a minimum. Nothing will dampen a rod's actionasmuch as unnecessary accumulation of mass (wherever it may be located),andthis most definitely includes the weight of the reel. Use absolutely the lightest weight reel you can get away with, and do notattempt to use a heavier weight reel just because you are looking to movethe rod's "balance point" farther toward your casting wrist. Now, if oneis using a very large rod, meant for casting heavy lines and heavy fliesinto the wind, perhaps these considerations would change. But, surely, foranything from a 6 to an 8 foot rod, and from a 3 to a 6 weight line, simply keep everything as light as possible, and do not worry about "point of balance." just my two cents... . Cheers, Bill ---------- Subject: Balance What/where is the best balance point for a rod? Is it in a differentposition for fly rods as opposed to others? from a position of ingnoranceI would imagine that the balance point on a fly rod would want to befurther forward than a float/coarse rod, to help throw the line. Right orwrong? How do you determine where it should be and achieve it. Is it everadjusted once the rod is made and if so what is the best way? I do a littlefly fishing but mostly coarse angling with a centrepin, trotting a floatdownriver. If the weight is too far forward it can be very tiring as theday progresses and it seems that it is best if the balance point movesbacktowards the reel. This is easily done with additional weight but this isalso counterproductive as you simply end up with a heavier rod - not suchagood idea. Thoughts and comments pls - (hopefully a start to a newstring?)Tim. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE5111.7240DD20 Tim,Frankly, when = is far too greatly influenced by one's choice of reel seat, hardware =(and, of course, the reel itself) to be a factor in the rod's design. = much as unnecessary accumulation of mass (wherever it may be located),=and this most definitely includes the weight of the reel.Use =absolutely the lightest weight reel you can get away with, and do =not attempt to use a heavier weight reel just because you are = = everything as light as possible, and do not worry about "point = =1999 7:49 AMWhat/whereis =the best balance point for a rod? Is it in a different position for fly = imagine that the balance point on a fly rod would want to be further =forward than a float/coarse rod, to help throw the line. Right or wrong? =How do you determine where it should be and achieve it. Is it ever =adjusted once the rod is made and if so what is the best way? I do a =little fly fishing but mostly coarse angling with a centrepin, trotting = tiring as the day progresses and it seems that it is best if the balance = additional weight but this is also counterproductive as you simply end =up with a heavier rod - not such a good idea. Thoughts and comments pls =- (hopefully a start to a new string?) Tim. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE5111.7240DD20-- from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Feb 5 13:19:31 1999 Subject: Re: Public aploigy I think mucker is an Aussie term of endearment. I once with an Australianwho had a hare lipand he often called a 'mucker'Terry w.d. gatliff wrote: Terence Ackland wrote: Tony,very generous of you to admit you were wrong, I admire a man thatadmits he is wrong.Luckily I am never wrong!OK, OK, just my sense of humour.I admit, I do try to be provocative and try to upset guys, but only to getsome ideasgoing.I know the guy with the cap has a cult like following on the list, and hecan show youhow to build a cane fly rod. But that is just the start, the real satisfaction is indeveloping your own style and discovering that you can build better rodsthan those you made I started of with Garrison's book and it is a great teaching book, as Ihave been toldare all the knock offs. It took a couple of years before I had theconfidence to startquestioning the gospel and it has been so rewarding in many ways.I know this going to look conceited, it is not meant to be.Terryps. are we muckers again? is muckers a whole word ?wil from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Feb 5 13:44:47 1999 jlintvet@clarityconnect.com, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Sanding glue off blank Richard,If you are using the thermoset resin glue there will be no swelling. Theadhesive contains walnut shell flour giving some gap filling capabilitiesforindustrial users. You cannot put 6 strips together with glue in between andexpect the glue not to take up space.Who is to say that the oversize rod you think you have will not be betterthanthe original taper?Stop worrying and get on with your second rod.Terry Richard Nantel wrote: Regarding the swelling in my first rod in which I spoke about in startingthis thread, the final, post-gluing dimension has increased by .002 at thetip, increasing to about .008 at the bottom of the butt section. So,perhapsundercutting the strips to that amount will achieve the perfect size. Iwas,however, working from a taper that came directly from a rod designer,not from measurements taken from a finished rod. So, to complicate mattersmore,I don't know whether the taper I worked from should be the taper Iachieveprior to, or post gluing. So, rather than worry about these things, I'mjustfinishing the rod and will likely love it to bits when I cast it thisspring. measurements,then take the thread off, glue, and take more measurements. This willtellme exactly the percentage of swelling to expect. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu FISHWOOL@aol.comSent: Thursday, February 04, 1999 10:09 PM jlintvet@clarityconnect.comCc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Sanding glue off blank Terry,Not to be too picky,but if I take a taper and plane 1/2 dimension forthesplines when I glue up I get dimensions slightly greater than theoriginaltaper. BUT, didn't the original taper swell to more than twice the splinedimension originally? Perhaps we should plane to less than 1/2 the tapertoallow for final swell due to glue-how much?Just to let you know I'm not too serious about this I generally don'tworry about glue up changes and the rods seem to cast well.Regards,Hank. from HARMS1@prodigy.net Fri Feb 5 13:50:45 1999 ext.prodigy.net OAA220518;Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:50:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Impregnation =_NextPart_000_01BE5116.CA7A5DE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE5116.CA7A5DE0 Chris, Not really. As I understand the process, the individual strips areimpregnated prior to final planing and gluing. Yes? Cheers, Bill ----------From: Chris Wohlford Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now ImpregnationDate: Thursday, February 04, 1999 3:30 PM Don & Terry,I have always wondered if impregnating a "hollow built" rod wouldpresentproblems. Foe example would the cavities fill up with the fluid? Just athought. --Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com Terry & the list, Use the same product and it is acrylic that they use for impregnation.Theyhave worked with bamboo but in only small pieces for the jewelrytrade.When I talked to them last, they said that they would be interested intrying to impregnate a rod shaft for me.While determination of weight increases due to the impregnationchemicalwill be easy, other tests to figure out how the cane changes may take awhile. If anyone has some thought on this, give me a shout. Don ------=_NextPart_000_01BE5116.CA7A5DE0 Chris, Not really. = = problems. Foe example would the cavities fill up with the fluid? Just a = ------=_NextPart_000_01BE5116.CA7A5DE0-- from HARMS1@prodigy.net Fri Feb 5 14:14:27 1999 ext.prodigy.net PAA296208;Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:14:17 -0500 , Subject: Re: Sanding glue off blank =_NextPart_000_01BE511A.165DD400" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE511A.165DD400 Of course, another "corrective measure" might be to mic a section alongitslength after the glue is fully cured, and then slip the whole section onedirection or the other until it "matches" your design. But, Terry is right; you will not have made a mistake if your actualform- settings and your actual planing has been accurate. The oversizewillbe minimal, and you can just "pull everything back" for purposes ofmounting tip- top, ferrule and grip. (Also, there is always some smallsanding-back of the surfaces to be done before finishing.) Quit worrying,already. Everything will be fine. Cheers, Bill----------From: Terence Ackland Cc: FISHWOOL@aol.com; owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu;jlintvet@clarityconnect.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Sanding glue off blankDate: Friday, February 05, 1999 11:46 AM Richard,If you are using the thermoset resin glue there will be no swelling. Theadhesive contains walnut shell flour giving some gap fillingcapabilities forindustrial users. You cannot put 6 strips together with glue in betweenandexpect the glue not to take up space.Who is to say that the oversize rod you think you have will not be betterthanthe original taper?Stop worrying and get on with your second rod.Terry Richard Nantel wrote: Regarding the swelling in my first rod in which I spoke about instartingthis thread, the final, post-gluing dimension has increased by .002 atthetip, increasing to about .008 at the bottom of the butt section. So,perhapsundercutting the strips to that amount will achieve the perfect size. Iwas,however, working from a taper that came directly from a rod designer,not from measurements taken from a finished rod. So, to complicatemattersmore,I don't know whether the taper I worked from should be the taper Iachieveprior to, or post gluing. So, rather than worry about these things, I'mjustfinishing the rod and will likely love it to bits when I cast it thisspring. measurements,then take the thread off, glue, and take more measurements. This willtellme exactly the percentage of swelling to expect. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu FISHWOOL@aol.comSent: Thursday, February 04, 1999 10:09 PM jlintvet@clarityconnect.comCc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Sanding glue off blank Terry,Not to be too picky,but if I take a taper and plane 1/2 dimensionforthesplines when I glue up I get dimensions slightly greater than theoriginaltaper. BUT, didn't the original taper swell to more than twice thesplinedimension originally? Perhaps we should plane to less than 1/2 thetaper toallow for final swell due to glue-how much?Just to let you know I'm not too serious about this I generallydon'tworry about glue up changes and the rods seem to cast well.Regards,Hank. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE511A.165DD400 Of course, another ="corrective measure" might be to mic a section along its = section one direction or the other until it "matches" = made a mistake if your actual form-settings and your actual planing has = = Regarding the swelling in my first rod in which I spoke about in = or post gluing. So, rather than worry about these things, I'm = next rod, I will bind up the strips unglued, take a few = = = to = ------=_NextPart_000_01BE511A.165DD400-- from sshorb@ozip.net Fri Feb 5 14:27:08 1999 Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:28:59 -0600 Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Impregnation You used to be able to get low grade soft turquoise that had beenimpregnated with plastic to make it harder. Don't know what was used,but it polished pretty good.Skip from saltwein@swbell.net Fri Feb 5 14:59:34 1999 OAA07488 Subject: Thread Hello All, I am getting ready to purchase some more thread and I was interested intrying other types to see which I might prefer. To date the only silkthread that I have used is the Gudebrod 00. I like the color selectionsbut the thread seems a little fuzzy, though I don't have a reference togauge it against. Do any of you have a favorite type that you would like to share yourexperience with? I thought maybe we could get a thread thread going (couldn't resist). What about the size A threads. How well do they lie down? Anyone? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from Fishinstix@aol.com Fri Feb 5 15:02:07 1999 Subject: Tiger Stripe Flaming Hi Gang,Can someone please explain to me the "how to's" of tiger stripe flaming.When you look at a rod that has this done to it, it looks like a continuousstripe.But if you do this to a culm, and then stagger the nodes properly, thestripeswon't line up. What is the procedure to get this effect? Thanks in advance Mark Mills from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Feb 5 16:05:00 1999 Subject: precision? 29F28AC17739DBA925134FFB" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 29F28AC17739DBA925134FFB I have scanned a sketch I have draw showing that sometimes all thesplines do not meet in the middle of the blank. If one spline drops downpushing the adjacent splines out, the blank will measure updissapointingly. This can happen if you remove the apex of the pith sidewith a plane as per Garrison.This shift will not be noticed after binding and glue hides themissmatch and probably will not be noticed on sanding. A micrometerreading across the flats will look like crap, yet only very smalltriangles would have been sanded off.Terry> from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Fri Feb 5 16:24:51 1999 Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:21:54 -0600 Subject: Re: Stabilizied Reel Seats (was Impregnation) Chris,When you get a few minutes, please tell us a little more. Thanks,Harry Chris Wohlford wrote: John & Others,You might be interested in a new product available to wood turners thatis used tostabilize and prevent checking in wood. The product is called PENTACRYL.I've been using it and a resellerbelow. I would be glad to provide some more info (tips on using) but it willhave to wait afew days as I amreally tied up at the San Mateo Fly Fishing show. Preservation Solutions1060 Bunker Hill RoadJefferson ME 04348phone: (207) 563-5414email: knobloch@lincoln.midcoast.com PENTACRYL can also be purchased through:Packard WoodworksPO. Box 718Tryon, NC 28782phone: (800) 683-8876 --Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail:chris@artistree.com "J. C. Zimny" wrote: Yes, Bill, Phenolics are available. But, they turn medium woods dark.That's why mostwood stabilizing operations use acrylics. However, acrylics tend to givethe wood a bluecaste. I've had my troubles turning burl and have turned away from becauseof the waste andbecause of the instability and subsequent checking. I look for beautifulgraining and amcontent with that.John Z from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Feb 5 17:12:01 1999 richard.nantel@videotron.ca, hexagon@odyssee.net,dmanders@telusplanet.net Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Impregnation George,PEG only keeps the wood from cracking, it doesn'tdo anything to the wood to harden it or anything like that.I use it on a lot of my wood that I cut for reel seat fillers.If the wood is a little green, I soak it in PEG to keep it fromcracking and warping while it dries out. Dave leClair from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Feb 5 17:16:58 1999 Subject: Re: Ferrule wrapping Stefan,You start your silk thread on the cane before the "Legs"and then wrap over the "legs" up to the first groove in the ferrule. These "legs" are called serration's. They help distributeThe flexing at the ferrule. These help the rod from breakingat the ferrule. Dave from saweiss@flash.net Fri Feb 5 17:49:00 1999 Subject: Re: Sanding glue off blank - I too have noticed this. I can final plane six strips and when they areputtogether and held with tape it is .002 - .004 oversize at each station. Idoubt that this can be swelling if I'm planing all six strips in anevening,measuring each and then taping them together. I'm wondering if whenboundand glued it will be closer to the final dimension. It's possible the gluewill provide a tighter fit to measure, although when I measure them I'mcompressing the section pretty tight. Has anyone else had thisexperience?This seems to be a consistent thing so I'm thinking I may experiment andsubtract .002 from each strip's final dimension during final planing. Thismay explain why most rods I've built seem to cast better with one lineweight heavier than the taper calls for. Brian,Maybe this is measuring error, since it's pretty difficult to mike againstthe pith apex without even slightly compressing it.Steve from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Feb 5 20:18:54 1999 Sat, 6 Feb 1999 10:16:52 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) rodmaker list Subject: Re: Public aploigy On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Terence Ackland wrote: I think mucker is an Aussie term of endearment. I once with an Australian who had a hare lip and he often called a'mucker'Terry I thought it was an English term as I've never heard it before. If he had a hare lip maybe he meant something else? Tony /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb? A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from ctparham@javanet.com Fri Feb 5 20:24:50 1999 Subject: matal planing formas where can I get metal forms and how much will they cost? from maxs@geocities.co.jp Fri Feb 5 23:57:09 1999 mail.geocities.co.jp (8.9.2+1.1G/GEOCITIES1.1) with SMTP id OAA20528;Sat, 6 Feb 199914:57:00 +0900 (JST) Subject: RE: precision? I have scanned a sketch I have draw showing that sometimes all thesplines do not meet in the middle of the blank. If one spline drops downpushing the adjacent splines out, the blank will measure updissapointingly. This can happen if you remove the apex of the pith sidewith a plane as per Garrison.This shift will not be noticed after binding and glue hides themissmatch and probably will not be noticed on sanding. A micrometerreading across the flats will look like crap, yet only very smalltriangles would have been sanded off.Terry Terry, I feel very easy now and glad. from your post in the past, it is hardly tobelieve that you had such a problem.As I am struggling this kind of problems always, I can tell you how tocorrect it. This unmatch can be theoritically corrected when all the strips wereplaned with the same width.This seems to happen when it is not corrected after glue. After bindingthem withglue and wiped off some of the glue, I always turn the glued blank with apressure of my palms on the flatfloor several times. It would be easier to correct in this fashion whenthe strips were planed as Garison showed on the book (a little less than60deg on both edge of the enamel flat), IMHO, because the blank was alreadybound together. Even when the strips have same dimension at each point, giving apressureon one certain set of flat will cause the flat sink and the neighbour jumpsup. So thecorrective action after glueing is the must to prevent this. Of-course, when the strips are not equally planed, it always happens andishardly corrected unless sanded/filed off. My humble opinion about this phenomenon is, since the strips were notplanedcorrectly in exact precision on the planing form, is there anything wrongifthey were planed/filed/sanded off (corrected)to a matching size on the hexagon? This phenomenon is also easily happens when I bind the strips withoutstraightening the planed strips before binding.I always heat and press each triangle strip on the groove of planingform one by one by clothes iron and make it as straight as possible beforebinding. Thenglue and turn the bound blank on the floor with pressure of palms. Is there any other good way to prevent or correct this unmatch? Max from chris@artistree.com Sat Feb 6 02:12:01 1999 Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Impregnation mac-creator="4D4F5353" Yes, that would be the "traditional" way (and sorry to open a can ofworms), but I was thinking that you could do the whole blank or am Icrazy?--Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com WILLIAM A HARMS wrote: Chris, Not really. As I understand the process, the individual strips areimpregnated prior to final planing and gluing. Yes? Cheers, Bill ----------From: Chris Wohlford Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is nowImpregnationDate: Thursday, February 04, 1999 3:30 PM Don & Terry,I have always wondered if impregnating a "hollow built" rod wouldpresentproblems. Foe example would the cavities fill up with the fluid?Just a thought. from HARMS1@prodigy.net Sat Feb 6 07:23:33 1999 Sat, 6 Feb 1999 08:23:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Impregnation =_NextPart_000_01BE51A9.DB159460" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE51A9.DB159460 Hell, I don't know, Chris. I'm just flailing around here -- working only from a bunch of assumptions. But I was thinking that if one impregnated all the planed strips in a"bath" together, the material might penetrate faster and more deeply,sincethe impregnating liquid would have access to the cane from all three sidesof the triangular strips. On the other hand, if one impregnated an alreadyglued-up section, the liquid could enter the cane only from the outermostsurface flat -- the toughest part with the densest layer of power fibers. (Of, course, in either case, the liquid also enters from the ends where,presumably, it would be "wicked" up into the length of the stick. But howmuch, how fast, or how thoroughly this actually takes place, I wouldn'tknow.) Now, maybe all this would matter, and maybe it wouldn't. As I say, I haveno experience either with the materials or with the process. Cheers, Bill----------From: Chris Wohlford Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now ImpregnationDate: Friday, February 05, 1999 4:14 PM Yes, that would be the "traditional" way (and sorry to open a can ofworms), but I was thinking that you could do the whole blank or am Icrazy?--Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com WILLIAM A HARMS wrote: Chris, Not really. As I understand the process, the individual strips areimpregnated prior to final planing and gluing. Yes? Cheers, Bill ----------From: Chris Wohlford Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is nowImpregnationDate: Thursday, February 04, 1999 3:30 PM Don & Terry,I have always wondered if impregnating a "hollow built" rod wouldpresentproblems. Foe example would the cavities fill up with the fluid?Just a thought. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE51A9.DB159460 Hell, I don't know, Chris. = of assumptions.But I was thinking that if one impregnated all =the planed strips in a "bath" together, the material might =penetrate faster and more deeply, since the impregnating liquid would =have access to the cane from all three sides of the triangular = section, the liquid could enter the cane only from the outermost surface =flat -- the toughest part with the densest layer of power fibers. = this actually takes place, I wouldn't know.)Now, maybe all this = experience either with the materials or with the process.Cheers, = = ------=_NextPart_000_01BE51A9.DB159460-- from channer@hubwest.com Sat Feb 6 09:19:15 1999 (SMTPD32-4.06) id ADC4106F0152; Sat, 06 Feb 1999 08:20:36 MST Subject: Re: Thread At 03:01 PM 2/5/99 -0800, Steve wrote:Hello All, I am getting ready to purchase some more thread and I was interested intrying other types to see which I might prefer. To date the only silkthread that I have used is the Gudebrod 00. I like the color selectionsbut the thread seems a little fuzzy, though I don't have a reference togauge it against. Do any of you have a favorite type that you would like to share yourexperience with? I thought maybe we could get a thread thread going (couldn't resist). What about the size A threads. How well do they lie down? Anyone? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Steve;Use anything but Gudebrod, absolutely the worst of the silk threads. Iprefer YLI( Anglers brand) myself. John from bills@nwlink.com Sat Feb 6 11:28:44 1999 Subject: Re: Thread Steve,Golden Witch Technologies carries Pearsall's silk thread in Gossamer andNaples sizes. Good color selection (17 I think) and it has no fuzz. It takesfinish well; no mottling. Check out their web page for a description of thesilk thread. www.goldenwitch.com.Bill At 03:01 PM 2/5/99 -0800, Steve wrote: I have used is the Gudebrod 00. I like the color selectionsbut the thread seems a little fuzzy, though I don't have a reference togauge it against. Do any of you have a favorite type that you would like to share yourexperience with? Regards, Steve Steve;Use anything but Gudebrod, absolutely the worst of the silk threads. Iprefer YLI( Anglers brand) myself. John from teekay35@interlynx.net Sat Feb 6 12:17:56 1999 Subject: Fw: Security at Shows ----------From: Ted Knott Subject: Security at ShowsDate: Saturday, February 06, 1999 12:50 PM Had a rod stolen at the Somerset Show, a pretty 7' 0", 3p, 2t #3 line. Iblame only myself for this. I was sharing a booth with John Zimny, andinthe early days of the show we required anyone we didn"t know to leave apiece of identification if they wanted to try the rod in the castingarea. However this happened in the last hour of the show when my mind was onpacking up and the long drive home. A young man had been by our booth 3times chatting us up and expressing interest in the rod. He came backwhenI was away for a few minutes, asked to try the rod with both tips, andseemed genuine in a possible purchase. I returned within 2 minutes, andwalked to the casting area about 50 feet away and around the corner oftheaisle out of sight. He was gone. It took me a few more minutes torealize that we had been scammed. Oh well, lesson learned!!!! from teekay35@interlynx.net Sat Feb 6 12:17:57 1999 Subject: Fw: Security at Shows ----------From: Ted Knott Subject: Fw: Security at ShowsDate: Saturday, February 06, 1999 1:04 PM ----------From: Ted Knott Subject: Security at ShowsDate: Saturday, February 06, 1999 12:50 PM Had a rod stolen at the Somerset Show, a pretty 7' 0", 3p, 2t #3 line. Iblame only myself for this. I was sharing a booth with John Zimny, andinthe early days of the show we required anyone we didn"t know to leaveapiece of identification if they wanted to try the rod in the castingarea. However this happened in the last hour of the show when my mind wasonpacking up and the long drive home. A young man had been by our booth3times chatting us up and expressing interest in the rod. He came backwhenI was away for a few minutes, asked to try the rod with both tips, andseemed genuine in a possible purchase. I returned within 2 minutes,andwalked to the casting area about 50 feet away and around the corner oftheaisle out of sight. He was gone. It took me a few more minutes torealize that we had been scammed. Oh well, lesson learned!!!! from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Feb 6 17:17:17 1999 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Fw: Security at Shows Ted,Sorry to hear about your rod loss. Thanks for sharing that with us.Forewarned is forearmed.Regards,Hank W. from spazz@choice.net Sat Feb 6 17:35:37 1999 SAA15624; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Thread My two cents: Gossamer is awesome. I've restored a couple of rods (even*ugh*graphite) with the stuff and the difference is remarkable. The differencereally hit home when I did my main wraps with Rice and tipped withGossamer.The Rice was better than most, but not nearly as fuzz-free as gossamer. Bill Strelke wrote: Steve,Golden Witch Technologies carries Pearsall's silk thread in Gossamer andNaples sizes. Good color selection (17 I think) and it has no fuzz. It takesfinish well; no mottling. Check out their web page for a description ofthesilk thread. www.goldenwitch.com.Bill At 03:01 PM 2/5/99 -0800, Steve wrote: I have used is the Gudebrod 00. I like the color selectionsbut the thread seems a little fuzzy, though I don't have a reference togauge it against. Do any of you have a favorite type that you would like to share yourexperience with? Regards, Steve Steve;Use anything but Gudebrod, absolutely the worst of the silk threads. Iprefer YLI( Anglers brand) myself. John from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Sat Feb 6 19:24:48 1999 ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap(V1.3) Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Impregnation OK. What if a guy got a short piece of threaded galvanized pipe and twoend caps. Drill and tap one end to take an air fitting. Fill the"chamber" with liquid and wood and screw the cap on and hook it to acompressor and run about a hundred pounds of pressure on it for about 24hours? A vacuum pump would be nice to extract the air from the woodbeforeputting in the liquid an pressure but since I don't have one, I guess hewould have to do without. What about using plexiglas for impregnation. It can be dissolved inacetone and after removal from the "chamber" should leave the sampleprettyquickly. Again a vacuum pump would be nice to increase the rate ofevaporation. Any comments? Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from sshorb@ozip.net Sat Feb 6 19:40:08 1999 Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Impregnation Onis;Build a small airtight box, put one of those small $25 air pumps insidewith the tire fitting on the outside and connect your iron pipe to thebox. Cheap vacuum pump.Skip from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sat Feb 6 21:33:53 1999 Sat, 6 Feb 1999 21:31:11 -0600 Subject: Re: Sanding glue off blank Steve - Brian,I had the same difficulty with my first several rods. At least part oftheproblem turned out to be measuring error. There were probably some otherproblems there as well, but I was working like crazy trying to make themeasurement add up. I measured several times with calipers, then twiceeachwith two micrometers. The sections were still oversized when I tapedand tested At the Southern Rodmakers Gathering, Richard Tyree showed us a gadgethe got from John Long which virtually eliminates oversized strips. It is a 60*groovecut in steel that fits over the movable jaw of the dial caliper. Bycalibratingthis gadget mathematically with the supplied drill rod, you measure thesides ofthe triangle rather than the apex.It works like a charm. On the last several rods, my after gluemeasurementshave fairly closely equaled twice the strip size. If you're interested ingetting one of the gadgets, I can look up John's address and phone number. Hope this helps,Harry Steven Weiss wrote: - I too have noticed this. I can final plane six strips and when they areputtogether and held with tape it is .002 - .004 oversize at each station. Idoubt that this can be swelling if I'm planing all six strips in anevening,measuring each and then taping them together. I'm wondering if whenboundand glued it will be closer to the final dimension. It's possible the gluewill provide a tighter fit to measure, although when I measure them I'mcompressing the section pretty tight. Has anyone else had thisexperience?This seems to be a consistent thing so I'm thinking I may experimentandsubtract .002 from each strip's final dimension during final planing. Thismay explain why most rods I've built seem to cast better with one lineweight heavier than the taper calls for. Brian,Maybe this is measuring error, since it's pretty difficult to mike againstthe pith apex without even slightly compressing it.Steve from chris@artistree.com Sun Feb 7 02:42:54 1999 Subject: "A Poet Among Us" mac-creator="4D4F5353" Dear List,I was giving demonstrations on how to plane cane at the San Mateo Expothis week. No sooner had I walked in and put down my tool box when Icaught Ralph Moon rummaging through it. Jokingly I said "Hey Ralph, isthere something I can help you with?" (never though I'd EVER be sayingthat to Ralph) "Where's your planes!" he responded. Thinking this was asurprise inspection I quickly pulled out two Stanley's and handed themto him. (have to admit I was sweating a few bullets thinking I needed toredress the soles) He grabs the planes and runs off with this young girlscurrying after him. Now, I'm thinking to myself is he going to bringthem back because those were the only two planes I had brought and I gota bunch of people standing there, staring at me and waiting for me to DOsomething. It turns out he was being interviewed by a reporter and he was showinghere the tools we use to plane rods. I just saw the published article intoday's paper. It was a small blurb mixed in with a larger article aboutthe show and I thought I would share it with the list. from the San Mateo County Times 2/8/99 by Jessica M. Scully. Of Fly Fishing and Poetry guru, 74-year-old Ralph Moon has been fishing with bamboo rods for thelast 65 years. Fly fishing with bamboo is "a very compelling activity,kind of like poetry or ballet," Moon said. "When I pick up a graphiterod, I've got no poetry in my soul." --Let me just say what a class act Ralph is. Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Feb 7 08:32:03 1999 teekay35@interlynx.net,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Fw: Security at Shows Ted - Maybe you could give us a better description of the rod. Those of usinthe Jersey/PA area could keep an eye out for the rod. It would be nice tofindthis guy on a stream and find out if he can swim as well as he runs. from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Sun Feb 7 09:04:48 1999 with SMTP(MDaemon.v2.7.SP5o.R) for ; Sun, 07 Feb1999 10:05:41 -0500 , , Subject: Re: Fw: Security at Shows Ted - Maybe you could give us a better description of the rod. Those of usinthe Jersey/PA area could keep an eye out for the rod. It would be nice tofindthis guy on a stream and find out if he can swim as well as he runs. Down here in the hills of Tennessee we play a little game called "Bobbing JoeBoy from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Feb 7 10:41:10 1999 FISHWOOL@aol.com,teekay35@interlynx.net, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Re: Fw: Security at Shows Whenever you do a show you are always going to have those people whowill ripyou off. I have known many people at the gun shows that I do get rippedoff tabs on everything when so many people are milling about. I have neverheardof anyone letting both tips go with the rod over to the casting pond beforeand that should have been a red flag right there. This guy set you up fromjump start and he knew exactly how and when he was going to pull off hisscam.Let this be a leason to all of us at shows. Buddy you want to cast my rodyouleave me your drivers license or your credit card. Hey car dealers takeyourlicense # down and get info before they let you test drive and I guess weshould too. I am truly sorry this happened to you and hope we all learn something here.Besides maybe the bastard will break the rod somehow and he'll bescrewed inthat respect. What goes around usually comes around you know.Bret from dwdodd@yahoo.com Sun Feb 7 11:31:20 1999 1999 09:28:51 PST Subject: Foam Pads in Fly Boxes Anyone who can help me, I want to build a fly storage cabinet for my son.This cabinet is a series of shallow drawers that would hold differenttypes and sizes of his hand tied flies. The cabinet work is noproblem but the close celled rippled foam padding that would hold theflies is nowhere to be found. I have tried to have sales people getme an address for their producer but to no avail. I have seen thefoam in several fly boxes that one carrys while fly fishing. I sawwhat I wanted in the ORVIS store in Denver but the clerk could not getme an address of who makes their fly boxes. Cabelas has it too but itis in such small pieces that it is not economical to do. Also no onewould answers my email there. If any one knows where I can get this foam padding by the sheet or contact me. I would like to get the padding in 16 - 18 inches widthsand about 1/4 to 1/2 inch thick. My off line address isdwdodd@yahoo.com Thanks in advance,Newbie Dave _________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from teekay35@interlynx.net Sun Feb 7 12:16:36 1999 , Subject: Re: Fw: Security at Shows Tom, the rod is easy to identify. first, I don't think that there are many7' 3p 2t, for a #3 line out there. Also, the metal/wood reel seat has myname inside a rectangular box die pressed into the moving ring. The rodtube is by a Canadian company and is aluminum with an octagonal cap. Thereel is also unique. Its a copy of a 3 1/8 Hardy Perfect marked "TheFraser", made by a Montreal Co. in the 50's. I don't think there are toomany of them around. The bag is of my own making and has a label with "Ted Knott, Rodmaker" stitched to the top.----------From: TSmithwick@aol.com teekay35@interlynx.net; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Fw: Security at ShowsDate: Sunday, February 07, 1999 9:30 AM Ted - Maybe you could give us a better description of the rod. Those ofus inthe Jersey/PA area could keep an eye out for the rod. It would be nice tofindthis guy on a stream and find out if he can swim as well as he runs. from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Sun Feb 7 13:55:35 1999 with ESMTP id ;Sun, 7 Feb 1999 19:55:02 +0000 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Fw: Security at Shows Hey Ted, Can you remember what this guy looked like? I know there were lots ofpeople there, but if you can come up with a description of him we canlook out for him. I guess there's no honor among fly fishermen either,huh? Too bad something like that has to ruin an otherwise great event! Weel be watching! Dennis Ted Knott wrote: Tom, the rod is easy to identify. first, I don't think that there are many7' 3p 2t, for a #3 line out there. Also, the metal/wood reel seat has myname inside a rectangular box die pressed into the moving ring. The rodtube is by a Canadian company and is aluminum with an octagonal cap. Thereel is also unique. Its a copy of a 3 1/8 Hardy Perfect marked "TheFraser", made by a Montreal Co. in the 50's. I don't think there are toomany of them around. The bag is of my own making and has a label with"Ted Knott, Rodmaker" stitched to the top.----------From: TSmithwick@aol.com teekay35@interlynx.net; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Fw: Security at ShowsDate: Sunday, February 07, 1999 9:30 AM Ted - Maybe you could give us a better description of the rod. Those ofus inthe Jersey/PA area could keep an eye out for the rod. It would be nicetofindthis guy on a stream and find out if he can swim as well as he runs. from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Sun Feb 7 14:04:52 1999 with ESMTP id Subject: Epon Hi floks, I was wondering as I sit here with my newly glued up sections, exactlywhen does one clean off the excess after binding? I like the idea ofbeing able to clean up with vinegar and pull the string off by handinstead of sanding it off. So... Should I wait until it sets up, orshoul I clean up immediately. I would think if I did the latter, thevinegar would get into what I'm trying to stick together and ruin thewhole affair. Maybe someone with some experience with this stuff (Epon)can help out?? Thanks in advance, Dennis from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Sun Feb 7 14:05:04 1999 with ESMTP id Subject: Epon Hi folks, I was wondering as I sit here with my newly glued up sections, exactlywhen does one clean off the excess after binding? I like the idea ofbeing able to clean up with vinegar and pull the string off by handinstead of sanding it off. So... Should I wait until it sets up, orshoul I clean up immediately. I would think if I did the latter, thevinegar would get into what I'm trying to stick together and ruin thewhole affair. Maybe someone with some experience with this stuff (Epon)can help out?? Thanks in advance, Dennis from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Sun Feb 7 14:17:47 1999 Subject: Re: Fw: Security at Shows Hi Ted, Very sorry to hear of your loss and will keep an eye out for your rod/reelon Long Island. There were many from here at the show. It would be ableto spot a mile away. I also know a Teton reel disappeared from the CastleArms booth. I wish I knew you were at the show, I was there Fri/Sat andwould have liked to meet you. Regards, Bob Bob Perry \|/Fly Supplies: ::==,#=#*oFlytying materials (_ /|\Flyfishing equipmentRodbuilding components http://expage.com/page/flysupplieshttp://www.VirtualFlybox.com/okumahttp://www.mwflytyer.com/rightangle/http://www.freeyellow.com/members4/flysupplies/Email catalog on request On Sun, 7 Feb 1999, Ted Knott wrote: Tom, the rod is easy to identify. first, I don't think that there are many7' 3p 2t, for a #3 line out there. Also, the metal/wood reel seat has myname inside a rectangular box die pressed into the moving ring. The rodtube is by a Canadian company and is aluminum with an octagonal cap. Thereel is also unique. Its a copy of a 3 1/8 Hardy Perfect marked "TheFraser", made by a Montreal Co. in the 50's. I don't think there are toomany of them around. The bag is of my own making and has a label with "Ted Knott, Rodmaker" stitched to the top.----------From: TSmithwick@aol.com teekay35@interlynx.net; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Fw: Security at ShowsDate: Sunday, February 07, 1999 9:30 AM Ted - Maybe you could give us a better description of the rod. Those ofus inthe Jersey/PA area could keep an eye out for the rod. It would be nicetofindthis guy on a stream and find out if he can swim as well as he runs. from cattanac@wmis.net Sun Feb 7 14:26:47 1999Received: from t2.wmis.net (8.8.5/SCO5) withSMTP id UAA07900 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 199920:26:42 GMT Subject: Re: Fw: Security at Shows Ted -It's unfortunate to hear of your rod lose - most hope that thoseinvolved with flyfishing would be above that. But it happens with allgroups. from experience let me share a few things. You need to file apolicereport - that will help make things less sticky if the rod surfaces. Anddescribe the rod and other items in as much detail as possible - flamed?serial or date number? writing on rod? hardware type and coloring? asmuchas possible. Then pass this description on to as many close to the sport aspossible - It is surprising the outreach of this and other groups interestedin the craft. And It does work. If you can post as lengthy description aspossible (either to the list or privately) I for one will pass it along tothe folks that I can.There are a couple schools of thought that go with issues like this -the first is the the person will use it as is. The second is that they maytry to redo - or refinish the rod to eliminate all identy - that was mycase - when the person pulled it from the tube another recognized it andcalled the police.It' upsetting - it's money and memories stolen from you - but don't justwrite them off yet - let those around you know - perhaps it may help from stpete@netten.net Sun Feb 7 14:47:21 1999 cedar.netten.net(8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA29492; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 14:47:16 -0600 Subject: Re: Epon Dennis, I can only tell you what I do. I want to preface this with thestatement that (1) I am NOT an expert, I've only glued up three rods,(2) the fact that I have not experienced a problem yet does not mean youwill not encounter one, and finally, (3) this may be worth exactly whatit is costing you. When I glue the section up, I immediately wipe the section down with arag soaked in vinegar which has been slightly wrung out. John Channerdoes this AS it is coming off the troughs. He states that you will havefewer twists, kinks and bends in the rod than if you try to wipe it downafter it is off the machine. I must say that this makes great sense tome. You can 'cold' straighten the sections after a half an hour or so andsometimes that will eliminate any need for 'heat' straightening later. About 14 to 16 hours after glue up, I take the binding cord off and do aquick scrape with a slightly dull Swedish scraper. I only want toscrape the glue off, not any bamboo. I usually leave the rod in mydessicant charged/ dehumidity chamber/ PVC pipe in a horizontalposition. Some folks rebind here - I don't. (I would though, if Iattempted any straigtening!) I let my blanks set for about a week, but you could probably work onthem after a day or two. If anyone sees any glaring errors which I am making, I'd be glad to benotifed ON THE LIST, so that I wouldn't be passing any bad info toanyone, but I think Epon easy to work with. I asked for opinions onadhesives awhile back and we got lots of info on URAC and Epon. SeemsEpon users are very satisfied with their product. Thanks, Rick Crenshaw Dennis Haftel wrote: Hi folks, I was wondering as I sit here with my newly glued up sections, exactlywhen does one clean off the excess after binding? I like the idea ofbeing able to clean up with vinegar and pull the string off by handinstead of sanding it off. So... Should I wait until it sets up, orshoul I clean up immediately. I would think if I did the latter, thevinegar would get into what I'm trying to stick together and ruin thewhole affair. Maybe someone with some experience with this stuff(Epon)can help out?? Thanks in advance, Dennis from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Sun Feb 7 15:22:23 1999 with ESMTP id ;Sun, 7 Feb 1999 21:21:50 +0000 Subject: Re: Epon Thanks, Rick! I owe you a beer! That probably saved me some aggravation in the nearfuture. As for not being an expert, well, you've glued three more rodsthan I have (not counting this one, that is...). The sections came outsurprisingly straight out of my Smithwick binder. The tip needed a bitof rolling to straighten it a little more, but that's it. I now havethe two sections hanging with weights in my office/flytying room Thanks again! Dennis Rick Crenshaw wrote: Dennis, I can only tell you what I do. I want to preface this with thestatement that (1) I am NOT an expert, I've only glued up three rods,(2) the fact that I have not experienced a problem yet does not mean youwill not encounter one, and finally, (3) this may be worth exactly whatit is costing you. When I glue the section up, I immediately wipe the section down with arag soaked in vinegar which has been slightly wrung out. John Channerdoes this AS it is coming off the troughs. He states that you will havefewer twists, kinks and bends in the rod than if you try to wipe it downafter it is off the machine. I must say that this makes great sense tome. You can 'cold' straighten the sections after a half an hour or so andsometimes that will eliminate any need for 'heat' straightening later. About 14 to 16 hours after glue up, I take the binding cord off and do aquick scrape with a slightly dull Swedish scraper. I only want toscrape the glue off, not any bamboo. I usually leave the rod in mydessicant charged/ dehumidity chamber/ PVC pipe in a horizontalposition. Some folks rebind here - I don't. (I would though, if Iattempted any straigtening!) I let my blanks set for about a week, but you could probably work onthem after a day or two. If anyone sees any glaring errors which I am making, I'd be glad to benotifed ON THE LIST, so that I wouldn't be passing any bad info toanyone, but I think Epon easy to work with. I asked for opinions onadhesives awhile back and we got lots of info on URAC and Epon. SeemsEpon users are very satisfied with their product. Thanks, Rick Crenshaw from mrj@aa.net Sun Feb 7 17:11:01 1999 Sun, 7 Feb 1999 15:10:57 -0800 Subject: RE: Tiger Stripe Flaming The way to tiger stripe is to have a completely round culm Then You cantakea hand help propane torch and flame, or really char the surface of thebamboo culm in what amounts to a "barber pole" stripe. I use about 2 to 3inch width between the stripes. This takes a little bit of set up becauseyou are just spiraling up the section of bamboo. The reason this is best todo with a round culm is that you tend to char the edges of the bamboo andwith a round culm you will only have 2 edges as you should already have afull continuos split. I flame pretty dark because it is only on the surfaceand if you don't hole it too long you won't hurt the bamboo by charringdowndeep. If you did I think you would trash the culm. It doesn't take very longeither. If your bamboo is already split you could arrange some "random"typepattern and flame the surfaces that way. I personally would really thinkabout doing this if it were me. I have had really good success flaming theculm but the individual strips you are very likely to chare too much of theedges of the bamboo.Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Fishinstix@aol.com Subject: Tiger Stripe Flaming Hi Gang,Can someone please explain to me the "how to's" of tiger stripe flaming.When you look at a rod that has this done to it, it looks like a continuousstripe.But if you do this to a culm, and then stagger the nodes properly, thestripeswon't line up. What is the procedure to get this effect? Thanks in advanceMark Mills from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sun Feb 7 20:30:06 1999 sims.3.5.1998.03.08.20.27)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, Subject: 7'9" 2-3 wt BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_9bLE1m7LsJXTayjBK0MWNg)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_9bLE1m7LsJXTayjBK0MWNg) Has anyone built Wayne's 7'9" 2-3 wt? Could you describe the action? Sorry, stress curve diagrams are still greek to me. Richard richard.nantel@videotron.ca(514) 485-2287 --Boundary_(ID_9bLE1m7LsJXTayjBK0MWNg) action? stress curve diagrams are still greek to me. Richard richard.nantel@videotron.ca(514) 485-2287 --Boundary_(ID_9bLE1m7LsJXTayjBK0MWNg)-- from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Feb 7 20:57:48 1999 Subject: Re: precision? Max,thanks for the advice, very interesting, but after measuring other rodsacrossthree flats when I first stated building rods I decided that if it did notappear to matter to famous makers I would not let it worry me.If each strip is planed to the top of the form and a perfect equilateraltriangle then the discrepancy is in the binding. If the binding does notdrawthe splines into a perfect geometric hexagon is it such a loss? Rods arebeingbuilt 5 sided, 4 sided square and even rectangular so the cross sectiondoes notseem so important.All manufactures allow themselves tolerances to which components aremadewithin. The tolerances specified depends on the application, but if therewereno tolerances there would be no manufacturing.I cannot remember if Garrison mentioned how accurate the planing shouldbe.I think it is rather futile chasing thous around in cane without consideringthemoisture content which makes an enormous difference.T.Ackland maxs wrote: I have scanned a sketch I have draw showing that sometimes all thesplines do not meet in the middle of the blank. If one spline drops downpushing the adjacent splines out, the blank will measure updissapointingly. This can happen if you remove the apex of the pith sidewith a plane as per Garrison.This shift will not be noticed after binding and glue hides themissmatch and probably will not be noticed on sanding. A micrometerreading across the flats will look like crap, yet only very smalltriangles would have been sanded off.Terry Terry, I feel very easy now and glad. from your post in the past, it is hardly tobelieve that you had such a problem.As I am struggling this kind of problems always, I can tell you how tocorrect it. This unmatch can be theoritically corrected when all the strips wereplaned with the same width.This seems to happen when it is not corrected after glue. After bindingthem withglue and wiped off some of the glue, I always turn the glued blank with apressure of my palms on the flatfloor several times. It would be easier to correct in this fashion whenthe strips were planed as Garison showed on the book (a little less than60deg on both edge of the enamel flat), IMHO, because the blank wasalreadybound together. Even when the strips have same dimension at each point, giving apressureon one certain set of flat will cause the flat sink and the neighbourjumpsup. So thecorrective action after glueing is the must to prevent this. Of-course, when the strips are not equally planed, it always happens andishardly corrected unless sanded/filed off. My humble opinion about this phenomenon is, since the strips were notplanedcorrectly in exact precision on the planing form, is there anything wrongifthey were planed/filed/sanded off (corrected)to a matching size on the hexagon? This phenomenon is also easily happens when I bind the strips withoutstraightening the planed strips before binding.I always heat and press each triangle strip on the groove of planingform one by one by clothes iron and make it as straight as possiblebeforebinding. Thenglue and turn the bound blank on the floor with pressure of palms. Is there any other good way to prevent or correct this unmatch? Max from KDLoup@aol.com Sun Feb 7 21:44:51 1999 Subject: Re: Foam Pads in Fly Boxes Dave,I purchased a 12"x15" piece of rippled foam at a conclave. I think I gotit from the guy who owns Pocket Sports. The name on the lable is: MillStream Big Ripple Boat Patch (It's made to attach to the gunnel of yourboat.The back of the foam has pressure sensitive adhesive.) Mill Stream, Adivision of Limited Seasons Co., Inc. Manchester, NH. Sorry no address ortelephone number. Kurt Loup from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sun Feb 7 22:29:01 1999 sims.3.5.1998.03.08.20.27)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, Subject: Dickerson 8012 BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_yeynkBcB/ad2PS+6uTo2PA)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_yeynkBcB/ad2PS+6uTo2PA) Would anyone out there have a taper for a Dickerson 8012? Thanks in advance, Richard richard.nantel@videotron.ca(514) 485-2287 --Boundary_(ID_yeynkBcB/ad2PS+6uTo2PA) anyone out there have a taper for a Dickerson8012? in advance, Richard richard.nantel@videotron.ca(514) 485-2287 --Boundary_(ID_yeynkBcB/ad2PS+6uTo2PA)-- from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Mon Feb 8 03:31:46 1999 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id WAA05009; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 22:31:29 +1300 Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Impregnation Several people had asked me to give them a little more details on theprocess of preserving wood by impregnation with chemicals to see whatmay berelevent to rods. Unfortunately I have not been to the company that doesthis for a few weeks and have not been able to get the details until today .As it happens there has been further discusssion on this subject so Ithought I would post this on the list . My apologies to the guys who wereawaiting the information. This is the process for treating timber beams and palings to preventattack rods.Also the timber is pine , softwood , and will be far easier to penetratethen bamboo. However the same principles would apply ( I think) The timber is put in a sealed cylinder and put under vacumn of 40 psi. Thecylinder is then flooded with fluid while still under vacumn such that theliquid is drawn into the timber where the air has been displaced. When thecylinder is full it is vented to air which has the effect of putting a smallpressure on the timber. This is maintained for 4 minutes and then theliquidis drained from the cylinder. The vacumn is then reintroduced and taken upto 80 psi pressure to take excess liquid from the timber . This ismaintained untill only the required amount of liquid is left in the timber.This second vacumn is used to ensure only the required amount ofchemical isleft in the timber. I am not considering impregnating rods at this time but the following aresome observations based on my discussions with the timber treatmentguys. - They sometimes treat glued laminated beams. The glue forms abarrier to the treatment so it is important that any surface to be treateddoes not have a glue "barrier". This should not be a problem for glued upblanks as it is anly the outer surface which must be waterproof , providedany excess glue has been removed.- Moisture content of the timber is very important. If the timber isof a high moisture content the moisture will be a barrier to treating fluidpenetration. They aim for 12% moisture content and will not try to treattimber of more then 16%. - They use white spirits as the liquid for conveying the chemical.The active chemical is only about 4% of the total liquid content.Apparentlywhite spirits has good penetration capabilities. I wonder if there is apolyurethane varnish which is soluable in white spirits and whether a mixofsay ( I do not know why) 10% varnish and 90% spirit might work . Bamboowillbe much harder to penetrate then pine and it may be appropriate to use a"carrier" with penetrating capability which varnish or resin may not have. - They only look to achieve a surface penetration , about 1/3 of aninch , as this is sufficient to give protection. Would the same apply for arod in that if the surface is sealed then there is not the need for fullpenetration and the greater chance of the rod action being changed. ( donotask what that means for tips compared to buts , I do not know ). It doessuggest that it is ok to treat the finished blank and only achieve a limitedsurface penetration to achieve protection. - There is an article in " the best of planning form ", page 110,which sets out how to build an impregnating chamber to be used undervacuum.It does not however explain how to introduce the liquid while maintainingthe vacumn as it assumes the liquid is put in the chamber first. Thevacuumchamber does not seem that difficult to build even for me .- There is always difficulty in getting proper treatment of heartwood in pine. This would suggest that there could be difficulties withnodesin bamboo. ( the nodeless fans win again)- After treatment is complete they stand the treated material in theopen air for about a week before they paint it as it can cause paint"bleeds" if sealed before all of the volitile white spirit has evaporated. Iguess the same would apply to rods , even if they were not varnished thesilk could be affected if wound before the rod had dried out. regards Iank At 08:22 AM 6/02/99 -0800, WILLIAM A HARMS wrote:Hell, I don't know, Chris. I'm just flailing around here -- working only from a bunch of assumptions. But I was thinking that if one impregnated all the planed strips in a"bath" together, the material might penetrate faster and more deeply,sincedeleted Cheers, Bill----------From: Chris Wohlford Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now ImpregnationDate: Friday, February 05, 1999 4:14 PM Yes, that would be the "traditional" way (and sorry to open a can ofworms), but I was thinking that you could do the whole blank or am Icrazy?--Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com WILLIAM A HARMS wrote: Chris, Not really. As I understand the process, the individual strips areimpregnated prior to final planing and gluing. Yes? deleted from chris@artistree.com Mon Feb 8 03:48:46 1999 Subject: The Bamboo Fly Rod & the San Mateo Expo. mac-creator="4D4F5353" Dear List,I just spent an enlightening 4 days in The Bamboo Fly Rod booth atthe San Mateo Sportsmen's Exposition. It was incredible to see thepublic interest in bamboo fly rods. I just couldn't believe the largecrowds of people who were interested in fishing bamboo, many of whichwere requesting info on today's makers. At one point there were so manyrods being flexed it looked like monsoon season in a tonkin grove.I was also very supprized at the interest in the building of canerods. Quite a few rod building books were being sold. On one day Irealized that I had spent 9 hours straight planning cane, binding stripsand explaining building techniques to interested parties. Many talentedmakers were also stopping by to exchange ideas and cast each othersrods.There were a lot of requests made for rod restorations. And ofcourse quite a few fine old bamboo fly rods were brought in forevaluation. Some of which I never dreamed of seeing in such goodcondition.In conclusion, I sold 4 rods and noticed that at least 250 of mybusiness cards had been taken. It was a great time and many newfriendships were made. If anyone is interested in participating in theSalt Lake City or Denver shows I suggest you contact Mark Metcalf fromThe Bamboo Fly Rod (bam-fly@pacbell.net) and volunteer some of yourtime. You'll be glad you did, I know I am. --Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from hhholland@erols.com Mon Feb 8 08:36:41 1999 ,, Subject: Re: Fw: Security at Shows Thanks, Ted. I'll keep an eye out at our fly shop and around the Marylandstreams. Sorry about your loss!Hank H. -----Original Message----- ; owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Fw: Security at Shows Tom, the rod is easy to identify. first, I don't think that there are many7' 3p 2t, for a #3 line out there. Also, the metal/wood reel seat has myname inside a rectangular box die pressed into the moving ring. The rodtube is by a Canadian company and is aluminum with an octagonal cap. Thereel is also unique. Its a copy of a 3 1/8 Hardy Perfect marked "TheFraser", made by a Montreal Co. in the 50's. I don't think there are toomany of them around. The bag is of my own making and has a label with"Ted Knott, Rodmaker" stitched to the top.----------From: TSmithwick@aol.com teekay35@interlynx.net; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Fw: Security at ShowsDate: Sunday, February 07, 1999 9:30 AM Ted - Maybe you could give us a better description of the rod. Those ofus inthe Jersey/PA area could keep an eye out for the rod. It would be nice tofindthis guy on a stream and find out if he can swim as well as he runs. from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Feb 8 09:13:31 1999 (5.5.2407.0) Subject: questions? (1) does anybody have Ray Goulds email address? (2) found some albolene, do I just rub it on my silk line and wipe off andsame thing forflies? (3) Has anybody have any experience with Mackenzie? fly line advertisedin BFM? Whats thebest fly line for a bamboo fly rod. Just got my bronze thread wrapper for Golden Witch and boy does it workslick. Saw it over atD. Whiteheads the other day and it works like a charm. It just clamps to atable or bench andapplies the pressure to the spool not the silk. Once again I have noaffiliation with eitherGolden Witch or D. Whitehead. from BThoman@neonsoft.com Mon Feb 8 09:38:38 1999 [192.187.152.48] (may beforged)) "'Rodmakers'" Subject: RE: Sanding glue off blank The thing that has me dumbfounded is that I can set my forms to aspecifieddepth and plane down to the forms. When I measure with the mic I get thesame measurement as I set the depth indicator. But, I get a biggermeasurement with them in the hex. As I see it, I've got two measurements different, the hex measurement, is the one that's wrong. This hashappenedwith 12 rods. I make sure that I don't compress the pith when I take ameasurement and I also measure both pith sides of the triangle to be surethey're equilateral. If two strips measure .060 shouldn't they measure.120when measured in the hex? -----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd [SMTP:fbcwin@fsbnet.com]Sent: Saturday, February 06, 1999 8:30 PM Cc: Thoman, Brian; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Sanding glue off blank Steve - Brian,I had the same difficulty with my first several rods. At least partof theproblem turned out to be measuring error. There were probably someotherproblems there as well, but I was working like crazy trying to make themeasurement add up. I measured several times with calipers, then twiceeachwith two micrometers. The sections were still oversized when I tapedandtested At the Southern Rodmakers Gathering, Richard Tyree showed us agadgethe got from John Long which virtually eliminates oversized strips. It is a 60*groovecut in steel that fits over the movable jaw of the dial caliper. Bycalibratingthis gadget mathematically with the supplied drill rod, you measure thesides ofthe triangle rather than the apex.It works like a charm. On the last several rods, my after gluemeasurementshave fairly closely equaled twice the strip size. If you're interested ingetting one of the gadgets, I can look up John's address and phonenumber. Hope this helps,Harry Steven Weiss wrote: - I too have noticed this. I can final plane six strips and when theyareputtogether and held with tape it is .002 - .004 oversize at each station.Idoubt that this can be swelling if I'm planing all six strips in anevening,measuring each and then taping them together. I'm wondering if whenboundand glued it will be closer to the final dimension. It's possible thegluewill provide a tighter fit to measure, although when I measure themI'mcompressing the section pretty tight. Has anyone else had thisexperience?This seems to be a consistent thing so I'm thinking I may experimentandsubtract .002 from each strip's final dimension during final planing.Thismay explain why most rods I've built seem to cast better with one lineweight heavier than the taper calls for. Brian,Maybe this is measuring error, since it's pretty difficult to mikeagainstthe pith apex without even slightly compressing it.Steve from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Mon Feb 8 10:04:57 1999 Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Im SS>Onis;SS>Build a small airtight box, put one of those small $25 air pumps insideSS>with the tire fitting on the outside and connect your iron pipe to theSS>box. Cheap vacuum pump.SS>Skip Skip, I have a problem with that. A vacuum is a very good conductor ofelectricty. The pump could very easily short out in the box under thevacuum. I have seen this happen with air conditioning and refrigerationcopmerssors that are hermetically sealed and lose their refrigerantcharge. I even saw a person get burned when he tried to start one ofthese compressors using a start capacitor and the connection panel blewout in his face. I don't think this is a good idea.Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Feb 8 11:09:43 1999 Mon, 8 Feb 1999 11:06:52 -0600 Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com, gaff@carol.netSubject: Re: Sanding glue off blank Brian, Wil, Patrick, Steve,That's exactly what I was doing. All the measurements were "spot on"in theindividual strips, with both calipers and micrometers. But when Imeasured theglued strips, they were always too big. No matter how carefully Imeasured, Istill *must* have crushed the apex. As soon as I started using John'scontraption to measure the individual strips, my glued sections magicallycameout correct.To test my theory, I measured individual strips both with and withoutthecontraption. Strips measured without the gizmo gave me a smallerreading, evenwhen carefully using the little slip-clutch on the micrometer. Wasn't itJeffSpira who did the article in BFR on how truly difficult it is to measuretriangles accurately? I'm conviced that as much as I wanted him to bewrong, hewas, nevertheless, correct. Maybe that's whay Garrison had a trianglenotch cutin the anvil of one of his micrometers.Find someone who has one of the triangular contraptions. Measure thestripsyourself, then measure with the contraption. I'll almost bet (as aminister,I'm not allowed to gamble!) that the measurements will be smallerwithout thecontraption. John's phone number is (734)420-0267. As usual, no financial interest. Justtrying to help you get accurately measured strips. Harry Thoman, Brian wrote: The thing that has me dumbfounded is that I can set my forms to aspecifieddepth and plane down to the forms. When I measure with the mic I getthesame measurement as I set the depth indicator. But, I get a biggermeasurement with them in the hex. As I see it, I've got twomeasurements different, the hex measurement, is the one that's wrong. This hashappenedwith 12 rods. I make sure that I don't compress the pith when I take ameasurement and I also measure both pith sides of the triangle to besurethey're equilateral. If two strips measure .060 shouldn't they measure.120when measured in the hex? -----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd [SMTP:fbcwin@fsbnet.com]Sent: Saturday, February 06, 1999 8:30 PM Cc: Thoman, Brian; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Sanding glue off blank Steve - Brian,I had the same difficulty with my first several rods. At least partof theproblem turned out to be measuring error. There were probably someotherproblems there as well, but I was working like crazy trying to makethemeasurement add up. I measured several times with calipers, thentwiceeachwith two micrometers. The sections were still oversized when I tapedandtested At the Southern Rodmakers Gathering, Richard Tyree showed us agadgethe got from John Long which virtually eliminates oversized strips. It is a 60*groovecut in steel that fits over the movable jaw of the dial caliper. Bycalibratingthis gadget mathematically with the supplied drill rod, you measurethesides ofthe triangle rather than the apex.It works like a charm. On the last several rods, my after gluemeasurementshave fairly closely equaled twice the strip size. If you're interested ingetting one of the gadgets, I can look up John's address and phonenumber. Hope this helps,Harry Steven Weiss wrote: - I too have noticed this. I can final plane six strips and when theyareputtogether and held with tape it is .002 - .004 oversize at eachstation.Idoubt that this can be swelling if I'm planing all six strips in anevening,measuring each and then taping them together. I'm wondering ifwhenboundand glued it will be closer to the final dimension. It's possible thegluewill provide a tighter fit to measure, although when I measure themI'mcompressing the section pretty tight. Has anyone else had thisexperience?This seems to be a consistent thing so I'm thinking I may experimentandsubtract .002 from each strip's final dimension during final planing.Thismay explain why most rods I've built seem to cast better with onelineweight heavier than the taper calls for. Brian,Maybe this is measuring error, since it's pretty difficult to mikeagainstthe pith apex without even slightly compressing it.Steve from sshorb@ozip.net Mon Feb 8 11:11:46 1999 0600 Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Im Ok Dick, I bow to your experience. Thanks for the warning, I won't trythat idea. I believe in learning from others, you don't get hurt asoften. Maybe a larger air compressor hooked up in reverse or a small gasengine turned by an electric motor with the vacuum side connected to thecarb input and the exhaust side the output side? Skip from BThoman@neonsoft.com Mon Feb 8 11:15:19 1999 [192.187.152.48] (may beforged)) Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com, gaff@carol.netSubject: RE: Sanding glue off blank Should it matter that I'm taking the measurements of the hex before I'mgluing the rod? -----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd [SMTP:fbcwin@fsbnet.com]Sent: Monday, February 08, 1999 10:06 AM Cc: saweiss@flash.net; 'Rodmakers'; Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com;gaff@carol.netSubject: Re: Sanding glue off blank Brian, Wil, Patrick, Steve,That's exactly what I was doing. All the measurements were "spot on"in theindividual strips, with both calipers and micrometers. But when Imeasured theglued strips, they were always too big. No matter how carefully Imeasured, Istill *must* have crushed the apex. As soon as I started using John'scontraption to measure the individual strips, my glued sectionsmagicallycameout correct.To test my theory, I measured individual strips both with and withoutthecontraption. Strips measured without the gizmo gave me a smallerreading,evenwhen carefully using the little slip-clutch on the micrometer. Wasn't itJeffSpira who did the article in BFR on how truly difficult it is to measuretriangles accurately? I'm conviced that as much as I wanted him to bewrong, hewas, nevertheless, correct. Maybe that's whay Garrison had a trianglenotch cutin the anvil of one of his micrometers.Find someone who has one of the triangular contraptions. Measure thestripsyourself, then measure with the contraption. I'll almost bet (as aminister,I'm not allowed to gamble!) that the measurements will be smallerwithoutthecontraption. John's phone number is (734)420-0267. As usual, no financial interest.Justtrying to help you get accurately measured strips. Harry Thoman, Brian wrote: The thing that has me dumbfounded is that I can set my forms to aspecifieddepth and plane down to the forms. When I measure with the mic I getthesame measurement as I set the depth indicator. But, I get a biggermeasurement with them in the hex. As I see it, I've got twomeasurements that'sdifferent, the hex measurement, is the one that's wrong. This hashappenedwith 12 rods. I make sure that I don't compress the pith when I take ameasurement and I also measure both pith sides of the triangle to besurethey're equilateral. If two strips measure .060 shouldn't they measure.120when measured in the hex? -----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd [SMTP:fbcwin@fsbnet.com]Sent: Saturday, February 06, 1999 8:30 PM Cc: Thoman, Brian; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Sanding glue off blank Steve - Brian,I had the same difficulty with my first several rods. At leastpartof theproblem turned out to be measuring error. There were probably someotherproblems there as well, but I was working like crazy trying to makethemeasurement add up. I measured several times with calipers, thentwiceeachwith two micrometers. The sections were still oversized when Itapedandtested At the Southern Rodmakers Gathering, Richard Tyree showed us agadgethe got from John Long which virtually eliminates oversized strips. It is a60*groovecut in steel that fits over the movable jaw of the dial caliper. Bycalibratingthis gadget mathematically with the supplied drill rod, you measurethesides ofthe triangle rather than the apex.It works like a charm. On the last several rods, my after gluemeasurementshave fairly closely equaled twice the strip size. If you'reinterested ingetting one of the gadgets, I can look up John's address and phonenumber. Hope this helps,Harry Steven Weiss wrote: - I too have noticed this. I can final plane six strips and whentheyareputtogether and held with tape it is .002 - .004 oversize at eachstation.Idoubt that this can be swelling if I'm planing all six strips in anevening,measuring each and then taping them together. I'm wondering ifwhenboundand glued it will be closer to the final dimension. It's possiblethegluewill provide a tighter fit to measure, although when I measurethemI'mcompressing the section pretty tight. Has anyone else had thisexperience?This seems to be a consistent thing so I'm thinking I mayexperimentandsubtract .002 from each strip's final dimension during finalplaning.Thismay explain why most rods I've built seem to cast better with onelineweight heavier than the taper calls for. Brian,Maybe this is measuring error, since it's pretty difficult to mikeagainstthe pith apex without even slightly compressing it.Steve from fr.keulen@wxs.nl Mon Feb 8 11:43:16 1999 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA171B;Mon, 8 Feb 1999 18:42:41 +0100 Subject: Re: Foam Pads in Fly Boxes David Dodd wrote: Anyone who can help me, I want to build a fly storage cabinet for my son.This cabinet is a series of shallow drawers that would hold differenttypes and sizes of his hand tied flies. The cabinet work is noproblem but the close celled rippled foam padding that would hold theflies is nowhere to be found. I have tried to have sales people getme an address for their producer but to no avail. I have seen thefoam in several fly boxes that one carrys while fly fishing. I sawwhat I wanted in the ORVIS store in Denver but the clerk could not getme an address of who makes their fly boxes. Cabelas has it too but itis in such small pieces that it is not economical to do. Also no onewould answers my email there. If any one knows where I can get this foam padding by the sheet or contact me. I would like to get the padding in 16 - 18 inches widthsand about 1/4 to 1/2 inch thick. My off line address isdwdodd@yahoo.com Thanks in advance,Newbie Dave _________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Millstream produces them Rens Oosthoek from stuart.tod@virgin.net Mon Feb 8 13:03:45 1999 (InterMail v4.00.03.01 201-229-104-101) with SMTP Mon, 8 Feb 1999 19:03:16 +0000 Subject: Re: Fw: Security at Shows I came across a similar situation in the UK recently - a rod I had sentto me to repair had a distinctive marking that I knew belonged toanother very well regarded rodmaker - I contacted him to get theoriginal silk colours etc. and he told me that he'd had the rod stolenbefore it reached his customer. Luckily we sorted that little mess outto the satisfaction of all concerned, but the principal remains thesame. It set me thinking - the antiques trade has a catalogue of stolen works,why don't we do the same? Someone (sorry Jerry!) could kindly donatesome web space and we could post descriptions of stolen rods, thecircumstances etc. This should help with detection if we all know what'smissing and what it looks like - should those items turn up in anyone'sshop for repair, renovation or valuing! I'd certainly rather get my rodback than just the (invented) insurance value! Any takers? Wayne Cattanach wrote: Ted -It's unfortunate to hear of your rod lose - most hope that thoseinvolved with flyfishing would be above that. But it happens with allgroups. from experience let me share a few things. You need to file apolicereport - that will help make things less sticky if the rod surfaces. Anddescribe the rod and other items in as much detail as possible - flamed?serial or date number? writing on rod? hardware type and coloring? asmuchas possible. Then pass this description on to as many close to the sportaspossible - It is surprising the outreach of this and other groupsinterestedin the craft. And It does work. If you can post as lengthy description aspossible (either to the list or privately) I for one will pass it along tothe folks that I can.There are a couple schools of thought that go with issues like this -the first is the the person will use it as is. The second is that they maytry to redo - or refinish the rod to eliminate all identy - that was mycase - when the person pulled it from the tube another recognized it andcalled the police.It' upsetting - it's money and memories stolen from you - but don'tjustwrite them off yet - let those around you know - perhaps it may help from BThoman@neonsoft.com Mon Feb 8 13:15:19 1999 [192.187.152.48] (may beforged)) Subject: RE: Fw: Security at Shows I'd be happy to put it on my site or, at least, a link to the place. Brian ThomanThe Chattahoochee River Rod CompanyParker, Coloradohttp://www.bambooflyrods.com(303) 805-5733 -----Original Message-----From: Stuart.Tod [SMTP:stuart.tod@virgin.net]Sent: Monday, February 08, 1999 12:15 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Fw: Security at Shows I came across a similar situation in the UK recently - a rod I had sentto me to repair had a distinctive marking that I knew belonged toanother very well regarded rodmaker - I contacted him to get theoriginal silk colours etc. and he told me that he'd had the rod stolenbefore it reached his customer. Luckily we sorted that little mess outto the satisfaction of all concerned, but the principal remains thesame. It set me thinking - the antiques trade has a catalogue of stolen works,why don't we do the same? Someone (sorry Jerry!) could kindly donatesome web space and we could post descriptions of stolen rods, thecircumstances etc. This should help with detection if we all know what'smissing and what it looks like - should those items turn up in anyone'sshop for repair, renovation or valuing! I'd certainly rather get my rodback than just the (invented) insurance value! Any takers? Wayne Cattanach wrote: Ted -It's unfortunate to hear of your rod lose - most hope that thoseinvolved with flyfishing would be above that. But it happens with allgroups. from experience let me share a few things. You need to file apolicereport - that will help make things less sticky if the rod surfaces. Anddescribe the rod and other items in as much detail as possible -flamed?serial or date number? writing on rod? hardware type and coloring? asmuchas possible. Then pass this description on to as many close to the sportaspossible - It is surprising the outreach of this and other groupsinterestedin the craft. And It does work. If you can post as lengthy descriptionaspossible (either to the list or privately) I for one will pass it alongtothe folks that I can.There are a couple schools of thought that go with issues like this-the first is the the person will use it as is. The second is that theymaytry to redo - or refinish the rod to eliminate all identy - that was mycase - when the person pulled it from the tube another recognized itandcalled the police.It' upsetting - it's money and memories stolen from you - but don'tjustwrite them off yet - let those around you know - perhaps it may help from harry37@epix.net Mon Feb 8 13:36:55 1999 Subject: Re: Fw: Security at Shows Ted Knott wrote: Tom, the rod is easy to identify. first, I don't think that there are many7' 3p 2t, for a #3 line out there. Also, the metal/wood reel seat has myname inside a rectangular box die pressed into the moving ring. The rodtube is by a Canadian company and is aluminum with an octagonal cap. Thereel is also unique. Its a copy of a 3 1/8 Hardy Perfect marked "TheFraser", made by a Montreal Co. in the 50's. I don't think there are toomany of them around. The bag is of my own making and has a label with"Ted Knott, Rodmaker" stitched to the top.----------From: TSmithwick@aol.com teekay35@interlynx.net; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Fw: Security at ShowsDate: Sunday, February 07, 1999 9:30 AM Ted - Maybe you could give us a better description of the rod. Those ofus inthe Jersey/PA area could keep an eye out for the rod. It would be nicetofindthis guy on a stream and find out if he can swim as well as he runs. Everybody should watch Ebay, Ubid and other sale/classified sites--theylook a lot like cyberfences anymore--never know what you might turn up-- Greg from Kevin.Burkhardt@ipaper.com Mon Feb 8 13:55:49 1999 via NOTES ," - (052)cattanac(a)wmis.net" Subject: Re: Fw: Security at Shows All, My site is still primarily a links page , the good news is that I have plentyof room to post a page dedicated to this worthy cause...just say theword....Ican get a page done on Front Page '98 in an evening or two. I'd be happy tomaintain it by having people e-mail me the info. Kev ww4.choice.net/~spazz/flyfish.htm from rrappe@wirelessnorth.com Mon Feb 8 14:37:05 1999 " - (052)stuart.tod(a)virgin.net" ," - (052)cattanac(a)wmis.net" Subject: RE: Fw: Security at Shows In case this flies, here's mine:Missing:Minneapolis area Goodwin Granger Premier 7 1/2' 3/2, uplocking seat. Original owner toldmethe rod was Wright&McGill refinished right after WW2 & near mint sinceexcept for slight bag marks in a spot or two in the varnish from years ofstorage. Plain wraps are closer to translucent yellow than gold. Originalbag & black wrinkle paint finish tube. Tube cap had tissue stuck in toprevent rod from rattling and wide clear Scotch packing tape was placedoverthe original tube label to bind it to the tube and protect the dark goldlabel. Last used in 1994, several top to bottom house searches and I'm nowconvinced the rod "got legs" and was either stolen from my garage or morelikely car trunk, and I did not miss it right away. Rick Rappe'5510 Yorktown Lane-NorthPlymouth, MN 55442(612) 557-1311 -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Fw: Security at Shows All, My site is still primarily a links page , the good news is that I haveplentyof room to post a page dedicated to this worthy cause...just say theword....Ican get a page done on Front Page '98 in an evening or two. I'd be happy tomaintain it by having people e-mail me the info. Kev ww4.choice.net/~spazz/flyfish.htm from thramer@presys.com Mon Feb 8 14:54:55 1999 Subject: No Pay Rods I have had several rods show up over the years that were not ever paid years later in the hands of an innocent purchaser for service or repair. I just smile, complete the repair or service at no charge and hope therod has found a more honorable home.A.J.Thramer from stuart.tod@virgin.net Mon Feb 8 15:05:21 1999 (InterMail v4.00.03.01 201-229-104-101) with SMTP Mon, 8 Feb 1999 21:03:42 +0000 ," - (052)cattanac(a)wmis.net" Subject: Re: Fw: Security at Shows Kevin & all....Looks like the idea might work - only 20 minutes and two missing rodsposted already! Go for it!Stuart Kevin.Burkhardt@ipaper.com wrote: All, My site is still primarily a links page , the good news is that I haveplentyof room to post a page dedicated to this worthy cause...just say theword....Ican get a page done on Front Page '98 in an evening or two. I'd be happytomaintain it by having people e-mail me the info. Kev ww4.choice.net/~spazz/flyfish.htm from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon Feb 8 15:18:18 1999 Subject: Re: Fw: Security at Shows I think we have to face up to the fact that there are thieving bastardsaround andput it down to experience. We are rod makers, we can just make anotherone, theyare not priceless works of art.Sorry, we have been down that path.T.Ackland Stuart.Tod wrote: I came across a similar situation in the UK recently - a rod I had sentto me to repair had a distinctive marking that I knew belonged toanother very well regarded rodmaker - I contacted him to get theoriginal silk colours etc. and he told me that he'd had the rod stolenbefore it reached his customer. Luckily we sorted that little mess outto the satisfaction of all concerned, but the principal remains thesame. It set me thinking - the antiques trade has a catalogue of stolen works,why don't we do the same? Someone (sorry Jerry!) could kindly donatesome web space and we could post descriptions of stolen rods, thecircumstances etc. This should help with detection if we all know what'smissing and what it looks like - should those items turn up in anyone'sshop for repair, renovation or valuing! I'd certainly rather get my rodback than just the (invented) insurance value! Any takers? Wayne Cattanach wrote: Ted -It's unfortunate to hear of your rod lose - most hope that thoseinvolved with flyfishing would be above that. But it happens with allgroups. from experience let me share a few things. You need to file apolicereport - that will help make things less sticky if the rod surfaces. Anddescribe the rod and other items in as much detail as possible -flamed?serial or date number? writing on rod? hardware type and coloring? asmuchas possible. Then pass this description on to as many close to the sportaspossible - It is surprising the outreach of this and other groupsinterestedin the craft. And It does work. If you can post as lengthy description aspossible (either to the list or privately) I for one will pass it along tothe folks that I can.There are a couple schools of thought that go with issues like this -the first is the the person will use it as is. The second is that they maytry to redo - or refinish the rod to eliminate all identy - that was mycase - when the person pulled it from the tube another recognized itandcalled the police.It' upsetting - it's money and memories stolen from you - but don'tjustwrite them off yet - let those around you know - perhaps it may help from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon Feb 8 15:26:24 1999 Subject: Re: No Pay Rods A.J.I think you have to take it as a compliment that your rods are worthstealing.There is a guy in Ontario with a pair of my rods he did not pay me for. Iknow he fishes a lot and I look on it as advertising, what else can you do?Terry A.J.Thramer wrote: I have had several rods show up over the years that were not ever paid years later in the hands of an innocent purchaser for service or repair. I just smile, complete the repair or service at no charge and hope therod has found a more honorable home.A.J.Thramer from Kevin.Burkhardt@ipaper.com Mon Feb 8 15:35:29 1999 via NOTES " - (052)rodmakers(a)wugate.wustl.edu"," - (052)stuart.tod(a)virgin.net" Subject: Re: Fw: Security at Shows If the majority of folks would like to see a page out there, I would behappyto do it, it won't be any problem or take that long...so far just abouteveryone thinks it's a positive...it certainly won't hurt. I'll start assembling posts and get the page up in the next few days andupdatethe list with the URL. Just send in the info to my home e- mail:spazz@choice.net with lost/stolen rod as the subject. talk to you all soon Kev from tomchandler@earthlink.net Mon Feb 8 16:28:35 1999 Subject: Usenet post The subject of George Gehrke's attempt to build a bamboo fly rod for $300orso was brought up on this board earlier. I've always thought George was atotal crackpot with no realistic chance of producing much more than a lotofhot air. Nothing he's posted so far has changed my opinion, but his latestpost probably bears posting to this list -- I tend to ignore most of what'sposted on the newsgroups but.... At its best it's insulting, at its worst,well... Tight lines,TC ************ re-post from rec.outdoors.fishing.fly*************** Tonkin Cane cannot be used as the normal term in regards to fly rodsmade from Tonkin. To be perfectly correct and to avoid mistakes, thereis only the latin name that is proper and that is: Arundinaria amabilis. Panda Bears do not eat Arundinaria amabilis. This cane is grown only ina very small area in the south of China up the Sim River, severalhundred miles from the Pacific Ocean. It is remote, and it is the onlyplace on earth where Arundinaria amabilis grows. There are a greatmajority of bamboo fly rods in America that are not made fromArundinaria amabilis, but rather from a close relative known as "TeaStick Bamboo" or Pseudosasa amabilis. This brings up a fact or report that may very well neutralize theintegrity of many bamboo fly rods in this country today. What you'hope' is Arundinaria amabilis may not be the golden reed you were ledto believe it is in your treasured bamboo fly rod. That is all I'mgoing to say on that subject for now. The problem may not be thebuilder's fault but suppliers that passed of another species asArundinaria amabilis when it was not. What to do? Don't worry aboutit. Its too late. The Bastard Bamboo Fly Rods will be made only with certifiableArundinaria amabilis and we have some narrow testing that can be used tomake sure any future shipments ARE Arundinaria amabilis. The TonkinCane Shipment (those first 40 pieces I paid $385 for?) are Pseudosasaamabilis. They are worthless and I've been cheated out of $385dollars. I am going to send it back if I can. I don't want the moneyrefunded as much as I want to have only 2 - 2.5 inch diameterArundinaria amabilis supplied to us. That is the situation regarding our troubles in finding 'the real thing'in this bamboosa nonsense that surrounds Tonkin. Do NOT refer in thefuture to any cane regarding fly rod bamboo except by its latin name:Arundinaria amabilis. Not if you don't want to get burnt, that is. Itherefore demand of the fly rod bamboo industry that the term Tonkinnever be used in describing anything regarding the subject exceptArundinaria amabilis. Mr. G. --Copyright by George Gehrke 1999All Rights ReservedVisit: http://www.gink.com from Ed.Estlow@co.hennepin.mn.us Mon Feb 8 16:35:27 1999 1999 22:33:54 UT 16-1998)) id86256712.007BDD64 ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:32:56 -0600 Subject: Re: No Pay Rods Sounds like the rods had an honorable maker, too.-Ed (A J Thramer) thramer@presys.com on 02/08/99 03:03:49 PM Subject: No Pay Rods I have had several rods show up over the years that were not ever paid years later in the hands of an innocent purchaser for service or repair. I just smile, complete the repair or service at no charge and hope therod has found a more honorable home.A.J.Thramer from HARMS1@prodigy.net Mon Feb 8 16:46:58 1999 ext.prodigy.net RAA291378;Mon, 8 Feb 1999 17:46:41 -0500 , "'Rodmakers'" Subject: Re: Sanding glue off blank =_NextPart_000_01BE538A.DDFD2660" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE538A.DDFD2660 Brian, It's possible that you could be crushing an apex with each measurement byacouple thousandths without ever being able to tell. Almost NO pressure onyour mic will still crush a small amount of cane. And, too, it is possiblethat, try as you may, your form might not actually be turning out PERFECTequilateral triangles. These "errors" in measurement (plus the film ofglue itself) when doubled after glue-up, can easily add up to the slightoversize that most of us get. But it is not a problem -- simply slip thewhole glued section "back" an inch or two (according to your originalfive- inch incremental profile), and see how the section mics. You won't befar enough off to shake a stick at. None of us seems to know for certain why we are slightly oversize in ourfinal dimensions, but unless for some reason, you are way off, IT DOESN'TMATTER. You can invent any number of techniques to compensate if yourend-results annoy you, but if you're only talking about 3 or 4 thousandths,you really would be just wasting your time. Cheers, Bill ----------From: Thoman, Brian Subject: RE: Sanding glue off blankDate: Monday, February 08, 1999 7:34 AM The thing that has me dumbfounded is that I can set my forms to aspecifieddepth and plane down to the forms. When I measure with the mic I getthesame measurement as I set the depth indicator. But, I get a biggermeasurement with them in the hex. As I see it, I've got twomeasurements that'sdifferent, the hex measurement, is the one that's wrong. This hashappenedwith 12 rods. I make sure that I don't compress the pith when I take ameasurement and I also measure both pith sides of the triangle to besurethey're equilateral. If two strips measure .060 shouldn't they measure.120when measured in the hex? -----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd [SMTP:fbcwin@fsbnet.com]Sent: Saturday, February 06, 1999 8:30 PM Cc: Thoman, Brian; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Sanding glue off blank Steve - Brian,I had the same difficulty with my first several rods. At leastpartof theproblem turned out to be measuring error. There were probably someotherproblems there as well, but I was working like crazy trying to makethemeasurement add up. I measured several times with calipers, thentwiceeachwith two micrometers. The sections were still oversized when I tapedandtested At the Southern Rodmakers Gathering, Richard Tyree showed us agadgethe got from John Long which virtually eliminates oversized strips. It is a60*groovecut in steel that fits over the movable jaw of the dial caliper. Bycalibratingthis gadget mathematically with the supplied drill rod, you measurethesides ofthe triangle rather than the apex.It works like a charm. On the last several rods, my after gluemeasurementshave fairly closely equaled twice the strip size. If you're interestedingetting one of the gadgets, I can look up John's address and phonenumber. Hope this helps,Harry Steven Weiss wrote: - I too have noticed this. I can final plane six strips and when theyareputtogether and held with tape it is .002 - .004 oversize at eachstation.Idoubt that this can be swelling if I'm planing all six strips in anevening,measuring each and then taping them together. I'm wondering ifwhenboundand glued it will be closer to the final dimension. It's possiblethegluewill provide a tighter fit to measure, although when I measure themI'mcompressing the section pretty tight. Has anyone else had thisexperience?This seems to be a consistent thing so I'm thinking I may experimentandsubtract .002 from each strip's final dimension during finalplaning.Thismay explain why most rods I've built seem to cast better with onelineweight heavier than the taper calls for. Brian,Maybe this is measuring error, since it's pretty difficult to mikeagainstthe pith apex without even slightly compressing it.Steve------ =_NextPart_000_01BE538A.DDFD2660 Brian,It's possible =that you could be crushing an apex with each measurement by a couple = = possible that, try as you may, your form might not actually be turning = measurement (plus the film of glue itself)= (according to your original five-inch incremental profile), and see how = at.None of us seems to know for certain why we are slightly = =any number of techniques to compensate if your end-results annoy you, =but if you're only talking about 3 or 4 thousandths, you really would be = The thing that has me dumbfounded is that I can set my forms to a = = 1999 = = = gadget mathematically with the supplied drill rod, you measure = provide a tighter fit to measure, although when I measure them = ------=_NextPart_000_01BE538A.DDFD2660-- from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon Feb 8 17:18:46 1999 via smap (4.1) 15:24:26 PST Subject: Re: Sanding glue off blank When finished planing a strip, if you hold it up to a light the apex is a feather of transparency. It's probably impossible to measure without crushing using a standard caliper. If you take a pass with your plane over the apex, as I believe someone said Garrison describes in his book, then of course you would also need to add a thousandth or so to the measurementof the strip since when you fit it together with the rest of the five strips it will be suspended above center by the amount you removed from theapex plus the thickness of two glue lines, the ones on the two planed sides of the triangle (if that's measurable). I like Terry's advice of planing to the form surface and glueing the rod up without excessive worry over the dimensions. As long as your dial indicator is working properly you should have a correct final strip. And, if you drop your %$#@* dial caliper like I did the other night on a concrete floor, it is probably no longer reliable anyway. It seems if your trying to duplicate a taper from a rodmaker who used a beveler of some kind like Young, Payne, Leonard, Phillipson, Granger, etc. then the 5" centers of the typical planing form can't duplicate the path of a machine. Who knows what's going on between the 5" measurements. I'll bet your fly rod will cast beatifully even if the three dimensions aren't precisely the same at a particular point. Have fun. Chris mcdowellc@lanecc.edu from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Feb 8 17:26:20 1999 Tue, 9 Feb 1999 07:25:59 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: Usenet post wugate.wustl.edu id RAA07386 :-))), does anybody actually listen to this wombat? He sounds like awrestling comentator. Tony On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Thomas Chandler wrote: The subject of George Gehrke's attempt to build a bamboo fly rod for$300 orso was brought up on this board earlier. I've always thought George was atotal crackpot with no realistic chance of producing much more than alot ofhot air. Nothing he's posted so far has changed my opinion, but his latestpost probably bears posting to this list -- I tend to ignore most ofwhat'sposted on the newsgroups but.... At its best it's insulting, at its worst,well... Tight lines,TC ************ re-post from rec.outdoors.fishing.fly*************** Tonkin Cane cannot be used as the normal term in regards to fly rodsmade from Tonkin. To be perfectly correct and to avoid mistakes, thereis only the latin name that is proper and that is: Arundinaria amabilis. Panda Bears do not eat Arundinaria amabilis. This cane is grown only ina very small area in the south of China up the Sim River, severalhundred miles from the Pacific Ocean. It is remote, and it is the onlyplace on earth where Arundinaria amabilis grows. There are a greatmajority of bamboo fly rods in America that are not made fromArundinaria amabilis, but rather from a close relative known as "TeaStick Bamboo" or Pseudosasa amabilis. This brings up a fact or report that may very well neutralize theintegrity of many bamboo fly rods in this country today. What you'hope' is Arundinaria amabilis may not be the golden reed you were ledto believe it is in your treasured bamboo fly rod. That is all I'mgoing to say on that subject for now. The problem may not be thebuilder's fault but suppliers that passed of another species asArundinaria amabilis when it was not. What to do? Don't worry aboutit. Its too late. The Bastard Bamboo Fly Rods will be made only with certifiableArundinaria amabilis and we have some narrow testing that can be usedtomake sure any future shipments ARE Arundinaria amabilis. The TonkinCane Shipment (those first 40 pieces I paid $385 for?) are Pseudosasaamabilis. They are worthless and I've been cheated out of $385dollars. I am going to send it back if I can. I don't want the moneyrefunded as much as I want to have only 2 - 2.5 inch diameterArundinaria amabilis supplied to us. That is the situation regarding our troubles in finding 'the real thing'in this bamboosa nonsense that surrounds Tonkin. Do NOT refer in thefuture to any cane regarding fly rod bamboo except by its latin name:Arundinaria amabilis. Not if you don't want to get burnt, that is. Itherefore demand of the fly rod bamboo industry that the term Tonkinnever be used in describing anything regarding the subject exceptArundinaria amabilis. Mr. G. --Copyright by George Gehrke 1999All Rights ReservedVisit: http://www.gink.com /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb? A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from jczimny@dol.net Mon Feb 8 17:43:39 1999 Subject: Re: Usenet post Oh Thomas,What a wonderful post. I now know that George Leonard Herter has beenreincarnated. I thought no one would be able to grow such magnificentcajonesever again. How wrong I was. I'm looking forward to another wondrousdisplay ofknowlege and intellectual alacrity. I'm sure that Mr. Gerhke has done hisresearch in a most careful manner. I'm also sure that he is going togeneticallytest ( no doubt in his private laboratory) every culm that he imports tomakesure he gets the correct stuff. Pseusosassa huh? Well shut my mouth!John Z. Thomas Chandler wrote: The subject of George Gehrke's attempt to build a bamboo fly rod for$300 orso was brought up on this board earlier. I've always thought George was atotal crackpot with no realistic chance of producing much more than alot ofhot air. Nothing he's posted so far has changed my opinion, but his latestpost probably bears posting to this list -- I tend to ignore most ofwhat'sposted on the newsgroups but.... At its best it's insulting, at its worst,well... Tight lines,TC ************ re-post from rec.outdoors.fishing.fly*************** Tonkin Cane cannot be used as the normal term in regards to fly rodsmade from Tonkin. To be perfectly correct and to avoid mistakes, thereis only the latin name that is proper and that is: Arundinaria amabilis. Panda Bears do not eat Arundinaria amabilis. This cane is grown only ina very small area in the south of China up the Sim River, severalhundred miles from the Pacific Ocean. It is remote, and it is the onlyplace on earth where Arundinaria amabilis grows. There are a greatmajority of bamboo fly rods in America that are not made fromArundinaria amabilis, but rather from a close relative known as "TeaStick Bamboo" or Pseudosasa amabilis. This brings up a fact or report that may very well neutralize theintegrity of many bamboo fly rods in this country today. What you'hope' is Arundinaria amabilis may not be the golden reed you were ledto believe it is in your treasured bamboo fly rod. That is all I'mgoing to say on that subject for now. The problem may not be thebuilder's fault but suppliers that passed of another species asArundinaria amabilis when it was not. What to do? Don't worry aboutit. Its too late. The Bastard Bamboo Fly Rods will be made only with certifiableArundinaria amabilis and we have some narrow testing that can be usedtomake sure any future shipments ARE Arundinaria amabilis. The TonkinCane Shipment (those first 40 pieces I paid $385 for?) are Pseudosasaamabilis. They are worthless and I've been cheated out of $385dollars. I am going to send it back if I can. I don't want the moneyrefunded as much as I want to have only 2 - 2.5 inch diameterArundinaria amabilis supplied to us. That is the situation regarding our troubles in finding 'the real thing'in this bamboosa nonsense that surrounds Tonkin. Do NOT refer in thefuture to any cane regarding fly rod bamboo except by its latin name:Arundinaria amabilis. Not if you don't want to get burnt, that is. Itherefore demand of the fly rod bamboo industry that the term Tonkinnever be used in describing anything regarding the subject exceptArundinaria amabilis. Mr. G. --Copyright by George Gehrke 1999All Rights ReservedVisit: http://www.gink.com from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Feb 8 17:50:56 1999 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Usenet post Tom, It's interesting that over the last 20+ years I've built rods that fishwell and maintain their action all without the use of A. Amabilis(accordingto George G.) He must think as P.T. Barnum did that there's one fool bornevery minute. I guess the use of the" only true cane "is going to sell his$300 rods. Heck, I'm beginning to sound like Terry A! :-)Hank W. from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Mon Feb 8 18:05:16 1999 ix13.ix.netcom.com via smap(V1.3) Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Im Sorry to burst your bubble Dick, but a vacuum is not a good conductor. Infact it is a good insulator. In the heyday of vacuum tubes and high powertransmitting equipment, a vacuum was used as the dielectric fortransmitting capacitors to get very high voltage ratings. The problemwithenclosures is that whatever is inside has no cooling (i.e. loss ofrefrigerant). They tend to overheat, burn away insulation and short out. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com SS>Onis;SS>Build a small airtight box, put one of those small $25 air pumpsinsideSS>with the tire fitting on the outside and connect your iron pipe to theSS>box. Cheap vacuum pump.SS>Skip Skip, I have a problem with that. A vacuum is a very good conductor ofelectricty. The pump could very easily short out in the box under thevacuum. I have seen this happen with air conditioning and refrigerationcopmerssors that are hermetically sealed and lose their refrigerantcharge. I even saw a person get burned when he tried to start one ofthese compressors using a start capacitor and the connection panel blewout in his face. I don't think this is a good idea.Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net from gaff@carol.net Mon Feb 8 18:07:44 1999 Subject: synonyms it is my understanding that "tea stick", "pseudosasa amabilis',and 'arundinaria amabilis' are all synonyms for the same bamboo calledTONKIN.wil from rclarke@eou.edu Mon Feb 8 18:10:46 1999 16:07:24 -0800 Subject: FW: Usenet post Wow, what a load of hewie (slang), or should I say Crapiola Majoritus. Just my thoughts. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu -----Original Message----- Subject: Usenet post The subject of George Gehrke's attempt to build a bamboo fly rod for $300orso was brought up on this board earlier. I've always thought George was atotal crackpot with no realistic chance of producing much more than a lotofhot air. Nothing he's posted so far has changed my opinion, but his latestpost probably bears posting to this list -- I tend to ignore most of what'sposted on the newsgroups but.... At its best it's insulting, at its worst,well... Tight lines,TC ************ re-post from rec.outdoors.fishing.fly*************** Tonkin Cane cannot be used as the normal term in regards to fly rodsmade from Tonkin. To be perfectly correct and to avoid mistakes, thereis only the latin name that is proper and that is: Arundinaria amabilis. Panda Bears do not eat Arundinaria amabilis. This cane is grown only ina very small area in the south of China up the Sim River, severalhundred miles from the Pacific Ocean. It is remote, and it is the onlyplace on earth where Arundinaria amabilis grows. There are a greatmajority of bamboo fly rods in America that are not made fromArundinaria amabilis, but rather from a close relative known as "TeaStick Bamboo" or Pseudosasa amabilis. This brings up a fact or report that may very well neutralize theintegrity of many bamboo fly rods in this country today. What you'hope' is Arundinaria amabilis may not be the golden reed you were ledto believe it is in your treasured bamboo fly rod. That is all I'mgoing to say on that subject for now. The problem may not be thebuilder's fault but suppliers that passed of another species asArundinaria amabilis when it was not. What to do? Don't worry aboutit. Its too late. The Bastard Bamboo Fly Rods will be made only with certifiableArundinaria amabilis and we have some narrow testing that can be used tomake sure any future shipments ARE Arundinaria amabilis. The TonkinCane Shipment (those first 40 pieces I paid $385 for?) are Pseudosasaamabilis. They are worthless and I've been cheated out of $385dollars. I am going to send it back if I can. I don't want the moneyrefunded as much as I want to have only 2 - 2.5 inch diameterArundinaria amabilis supplied to us. That is the situation regarding our troubles in finding 'the real thing'in this bamboosa nonsense that surrounds Tonkin. Do NOT refer in thefuture to any cane regarding fly rod bamboo except by its latin name:Arundinaria amabilis. Not if you don't want to get burnt, that is. Itherefore demand of the fly rod bamboo industry that the term Tonkinnever be used in describing anything regarding the subject exceptArundinaria amabilis. Mr. G. --Copyright by George Gehrke 1999All Rights ReservedVisit: http://www.gink.com from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon Feb 8 18:45:26 1999 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Usenet post George Gehrke eh? I like his style. I think this is going to be a long thread.The list was getting a little boring.Terry FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: Tom,It's interesting that over the last 20+ years I've built rods that fishwell and maintain their action all without the use of A. Amabilis(accordingto George G.) He must think as P.T. Barnum did that there's one fool bornevery minute. I guess the use of the" only true cane "is going to sell his$300 rods. Heck, I'm beginning to sound like Terry A! :-)Hank W. from Turbotrk@aol.com Mon Feb 8 18:47:26 1999 Subject: Re: Foam Pads in Fly Boxes Dear Newbie Dave, I am not sure of what you are looking for but it sounds just like thematerialyou can get from an auto headliner shop. It comes in all kinds of shadesandcoverings. It varies in thickness, color, and comes with varying covermaterials. I am sure you can find one that will work. I use it in therestaurant bussiness to cover table tops to give it that cushy feelingunderthe tablecloth. I have found it very strong and durable. my .02 worthStuart Millernow building my first rod from fiveside@net-gate.com Mon Feb 8 19:09:44 1999 (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA29324 for ;Mon, 8 Feb 1999 Subject: Re: Sanding - To the List,Many of us realize that we will be a few thousanths over the projectedplaning form settings when we assemble. The important thing it seems tomeis that the overage is consistent from flat to flat and not lopsided whichwould indicate poor quality control. Some of the classic rods I'vemeasuredhave been mediocre in this respect. I sure do mike my rods for this. Keepsme on the ball. Bill from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Feb 8 19:10:12 1999 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: 7'9" 2-3 wt Richard,I changed Wayne's taper a little and made it a 71/2' for a 3 wgt. that Igot raves about and 2 more orders. I believe I posted the taper a couple ofweeks ago with some others that have worked for me over the years.Incidently,I stumbled on to the same configuation of tip taper that DarrylH.did for tight loops and used it for this taper change. Wayne's taper has allthe attributes of a good one-I just wanted a little shorter rod.Regards,Hank. from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon Feb 8 19:11:37 1999 Subject: Security at Shows Thanks for all the comments and suggestions re: "thieving bastards" andwhat to do with them. I especially liked the one about sending the culpret"bobbing for stone flies". However, my original purpose in posting theloss was to warn everyone about the need for vigilance when at publicshows. I'm not awfully concerned about the loss and I think thesuggestions for a "registry" or "stolen List" simply creates a lot ofunnecessary work for someone. I'm with Thramer and Ackland and haveputthe incident into the category of "forgive and remember". from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Feb 8 20:29:19 1999 Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:28:53 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: Security at Shows On a lighter side of all this. Much as I also like the "bobbing forstonefly" idea for the theiving bastards I could take them camping withmein Tasmania. That way you can forgive and they'll remember heh, heh, heh. Tony On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Ted Knott wrote: Thanks for all the comments and suggestions re: "thieving bastards" andwhat to do with them. I especially liked the one about sending theculpret"bobbing for stone flies". However, my original purpose in posting theloss was to warn everyone about the need for vigilance when at publicshows. I'm not awfully concerned about the loss and I think thesuggestions for a "registry" or "stolen List" simply creates a lot ofunnecessary work for someone. I'm with Thramer and Ackland and haveputthe incident into the category of "forgive and remember". /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb? A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from MasjC1@aol.com Mon Feb 8 20:59:00 1999 Subject: Re: questions? Patrick, I bought a 4 wt.Mackenzie line and used it last summer on the two rods Ibuilt- - a 4' 4" one piece A. J. Thramer taper and the Sir Daryll Favorite,Wayne's7' 2 piece. I like the line it is softer than the Cortland 444 that I fishedwith my plastic rods. I'm able to lay down a much better presentationthatwith the stiffer Cortland. The Mackenzie will probably not shoot as far asthe Cortland but that is not my main concern where I fish. I worry moreaboutpresentation. I think it compliments a cane rod very well. They arerelatively inexpensive for a specialty line or so I am told by the people atthe shop where I ordered it. Mark Cole from jczimny@dol.net Mon Feb 8 22:18:54 1999 0500 Ted Knott Subject: RE: Security at Shows Gee, Tony you mean that you're going to introduce them to the TasmanianDevils??John Z -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Security at Shows On a lighter side of all this. Much as I also like the "bobbing forstonefly" idea for the theiving bastards I could take them camping withmein Tasmania. That way you can forgive and they'll remember heh, heh, heh. Tony On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Ted Knott wrote: Thanks for all the comments and suggestions re: "thieving bastards" andwhat to do with them. I especially liked the one about sending theculpret"bobbing for stone flies". However, my original purpose in posting theloss was to warn everyone about the need for vigilance when at publicshows. I'm not awfully concerned about the loss and I think thesuggestions for a "registry" or "stolen List" simply creates a lot ofunnecessary work for someone. I'm with Thramer and Ackland and haveputthe incident into the category of "forgive and remember". /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb? A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from Canerod72@aol.com Tue Feb 9 00:14:14 1999 Subject: converting tapers Is it necessary to alter a taper which has been designed to be builtnodeless,to be built with the nodes in? In other words, if I build one of ChrisBogart's nodeless tapers on a rod with the nodes still in, will it performasexpected or will the taper need to be tweaked to work right.Thanks'Bill Felter from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Tue Feb 9 01:09:36 1999 mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net(InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP Subject: portland Sportsmens Show Are any rodmakers going to be there?Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Feb 9 03:15:47 1999 Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:11:10 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: RE: Security at Shows On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, J. C. Zimny wrote: Gee, Tony you mean that you're going to introduce them to the TasmanianDevils??John Z I was sort of thinking of inserting them into a sleeping bag with a faultyzipper, place assorted Tasmanian Devil bait (anything at all that dosn'tmove too quick) all around and let nature take over. The photos alonewould be worth the price of the rod.Then, there's my cooking..... Tony -----Original Message-----From: Tony Young [SMTP:tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au]Sent: Monday, February 08, 1999 9:29 PM Cc: rodmakersSubject: Re: Security at Shows On a lighter side of all this. Much as I also like the "bobbing forstonefly" idea for the theiving bastards I could take them camping withmein Tasmania. That way you can forgive and they'll remember heh, heh,heh. Tony On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Ted Knott wrote: Thanks for all the comments and suggestions re: "thieving bastards"andwhat to do with them. I especially liked the one about sending theculpret"bobbing for stone flies". However, my original purpose in posting theloss was to warn everyone about the need for vigilance when at publicshows. I'm not awfully concerned about the loss and I think thesuggestions for a "registry" or "stolen List" simply creates a lot ofunnecessary work for someone. I'm with Thramer and Ackland and haveputthe incident into the category of "forgive and remember". /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb? A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb? A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Tue Feb 9 07:57:28 1999 Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Im Onis, Your probably right, but try and convince those three compressorsthat I've had to replace. One was an old sample compressor that waspurposely destroyed as a demonstration for a group of technicians. Itwas started cold with the suction port (return) closed and shorted outin less than three minutes. It had pumped down to a 28.8 In Hg. vacuum.It shorted at the Fusite connector. The Fusite is the connector wherethe power goes through the can (shell) of the compressor. I have seen the Fusite blown out of the compressor on units. When I seethis I start looking for a blockage in the system somewhere. Theblockage causes the system to pump down and then she blows. I havealways found a blockage of some kind in these type of compressorfailures.Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net K5>Sorry to burst your bubble Dick, but a vacuum is not a good conductor. InK5>fact it is a good insulator. In the heyday of vacuum tubes and highpowerK5>transmitting equipment, a vacuum was used as the dielectric forK5>transmitting capacitors to get very high voltage ratings. The problemwithK5>enclosures is that whatever is inside has no cooling (i.e. loss ofK5>refrigerant). They tend to overheat, burn away insulation and shortout. K5>Regards,K5>OnisK5>k5vkq@ix.netcom.com K5>>SS>Onis;K5>>SS>Build a small airtight box, put one of those small $25 air pumpsinsideK5>>SS>with the tire fitting on the outside and connect your iron pipe totheK5>>SS>box. Cheap vacuum pump.K5>>SS>SkipK5>>K5>>Skip, I have a problem with that. A vacuum is a very good conductorofK5>>electricty. The pump could very easily short out in the box under theK5>>vacuum. I have seen this happen with air conditioning andrefrigerationK5>>copmerssors that are hermetically sealed and lose theirrefrigerantK5>>charge. I even saw a person get burned when he tried tostart one ofK5>>these compressors using a start capacitor and the connection panelblewK5>>out in his face. I don't think this is a good idea.K5>>Dick FuhrmanK5>>dickay@alltel.netK5>>K5>>K5>> from rodgers@jessie.nor.nuwc.navy.mil Tue Feb 9 09:25:11 1999 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Subject: Rodmakers net Is the server down? I have not received any rodmakers email in two days. Thanks,Dan from HARMS1@prodigy.net Tue Feb 9 10:03:43 1999 Tue, 9 Feb 1999 11:03:34 -0500 Subject: Re: converting tapers =_NextPart_000_01BE541B.B7799000" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE541B.B7799000 Bill,No amount of theorizing on this question will give you the answer youdesire, since the variables represented by those nodes just can't beestimated. The theoretical effect of replicating a given rod's taper inanother ( from which the nodes have been removed) must range anywherealonga continuum from huge weakening-to no effect-to huge strengthening. Somehave theorized that the nodes, while weak longitudinally, arenevertheless,tougher and harder than the straight fibers. Others have insisted thatnodes are always a "weak spot." How many nodes would be removed and spliced -- the same number as inthe"original" rod? And, would all the nodes in that original have been bentflat or filed (producing run-out grain)? How long is the glue-line in yoursplices and how many of them are there? I am assuming, here, that thelongitudinal glue-line of each splice contributes still more laminatingstrength to that established by the glued strips themselves. The morelaminates -- the greater the resistance to the fibers "slipping" over oneanother in the compression/tension of ordinary flexing. Or, again, is this all merely "academic" at a certain point? Blah, blah,blah... .The only way you'll ever know is to build two rods from the same culmwithprecisely the same taper -- one with nodes and one with the nodesremoved. Maybe you should also take care in the experiment that, as you split outthe strips for each section, every other one goes first to one rod, andthen the other. Cheers, Bill ----------From: Canerod72@aol.com Subject: converting tapersDate: Monday, February 08, 1999 10:12 PM Is it necessary to alter a taper which has been designed to be builtnodeless,to be built with the nodes in? In other words, if I build one of ChrisBogart's nodeless tapers on a rod with the nodes still in, will itperform asexpected or will the taper need to be tweaked to work right.Thanks'Bill Felter------=_NextPart_000_01BE541B.B7799000 Bill,No amount of =theorizing on this question will give you the answer you desire, since =the variables represented by those nodes just can't be estimated. = another ( from which the nodes have been removed) must range =anywhere along a continuum from huge weakening-to no effect-to = =longitudinally, are nevertheless, tougher and harder than the straight = spot."How many nodes would be removed and spliced -- the = =would all the nodes in that original have been bent flat or filed = here, =that the longitudinal glue-line of each splice contributes still more =laminating strength to that established by the glued strips themselves. = of ordinary flexing.Or, again, is this all merely = blah... .The only way you'll ever know is to build two rods from the =same culm with precisely the same taper -- one with nodes and one= experiment that, as you split out the strips for each section, every =other one goes first to one rod, and then the other.Cheers, = be built with the nodes in? In other words, if I build one of = ------=_NextPart_000_01BE541B.B7799000-- from BThoman@neonsoft.com Tue Feb 9 10:08:08 1999 Subject: Lathe I have access to an Atlas lathe model 618. They want $700 for it. Is thisa good price? It sounds like it would be more than adequate forrodbuilding. Does anyone use one? Brian ThomanThe Chattahoochee River Rod CompanyParker, Coloradohttp://www.bambooflyrods.com(303) 805-5733 from rclarke@eou.edu Tue Feb 9 10:09:58 1999 08:06:38 -0800 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: RE: portland Sportsmens Show When is it? -----Original Message----- Subject: portland Sportsmens Show Are any rodmakers going to be there?Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from BThoman@neonsoft.com Tue Feb 9 10:10:50 1999 Subject: Atlas 618 Does anyone use this lathe? I've found one for $700 with someaccessorieslike a 3 and 4 jaw chuck. Is this a good price? It seems like it would beperfect for rodbuilding. Brian ThomanThe Chattahoochee River Rod Companyhttp://www.bambooflyrods.com303.805.5733 from HARMS1@prodigy.net Tue Feb 9 10:14:08 1999 Tue, 9 Feb 1999 11:13:52 -0500 Subject: Re: questions? =_NextPart_000_01BE541D.28337BC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE541D.28337BC0 Mark, On the other side of the Mackenzie experience, a friend of mine and I eachbought a 4 WF "Bamboo" line a year ago, and recently returned them for arefund. Our lines, while sporting a most appealing coffee color, wouldnot "shoot" worth a toot, felt abrasive in the guides, remained hopelessly coiled betweenour hands, and could not be seen when the light began to fail (read, anyevening hatch). In all, we were not happy campers, and returned to ourtried and true Cortland 444s.(No interest in either product...) Cheers, Bill ----------From: MasjC1@aol.com Cc: RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: questions?Date: Monday, February 08, 1999 6:47 PM Patrick, I bought a 4 wt.Mackenzie line and used it last summer on the two rods Ibuilt- - a 4' 4" one piece A. J. Thramer taper and the Sir Daryll Favorite,Wayne's7' 2 piece. I like the line it is softer than the Cortland 444 that Ifishedwith my plastic rods. I'm able to lay down a much better presentationthatwith the stiffer Cortland. The Mackenzie will probably not shoot as farasthe Cortland but that is not my main concern where I fish. I worry moreaboutpresentation. I think it compliments a cane rod very well. They arerelatively inexpensive for a specialty line or so I am told by the peopleatthe shop where I ordered it. Mark Cole------=_NextPart_000_01BE541D.28337BC0 Mark,On the other = coiled between our hands, and could not be seen when the light began to = were not happy campers, and returned to our tried and true Cortland =444s.(No interest in either product...)Cheers, = = bought a 4 wt.Mackenzie line and used it last summer on the two rods I = inexpensive for a specialty line or so I am told by the people = ------=_NextPart_000_01BE541D.28337BC0-- from pdcorlis@nidc.edu Tue Feb 9 12:18:51 1999 with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 09 Feb 1999 10:13:28 -0800 Subject: Rod ID Help Hi Gang I ran across an interesting rod at a local junk store but it's missing itslabel... I'mhoping someone can help me identify it. It's a 3 piece 8' blond rod withlarge nickle silverwinding check. Perhaps its most identifiable trait is a single maroonthread that spirals upthe entire length of the rod with about a 1/8th - 1/16th inch spacing. Thedownlocking reelseat is either nickle silver, or perhaps chromed. Well gang, that's about all I got... any ideas? Thanks in advance! Phil Corlis from hhholland@erols.com Tue Feb 9 12:54:03 1999 Subject: Re: questions? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001C_01BE5433.28BB9580" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BE5433.28BB9580 I have to say that my experience was more akin to Bill's. I often fish =places where I DO have to make long casts and shoot line, and I didn't =think it shot well either. I also agree about its holding coils and =visibility. I like the Wulff TT lines, the Cortland 444 (peach color - =not the 444 SL green ones) and the new Scientific Angler AST lines for =bamboo. Just my $.02, and that may be all it's worth!Hank H.-----Original Message-----From: WILLIAM A HARMS = Cc: RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 2:19 PMSubject: Re: questions? Mark, On the other side of the Mackenzie experience, a friend of mine and =I each bought a 4 WF "Bamboo" line a year ago, and recently returned =them for a refund. Our lines, while sporting a most appealing coffee = a toot, felt abrasive in the guides, remained hopelessly coiled =between our hands, and could not be seen when the light began to fail =(read, any evening hatch). In all, we were not happy campers, and =returned to our tried and true Cortland 444s.(No interest in either product...) Cheers, Bill ----------From: MasjC1@aol.com Cc: RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: questions?Date: Monday, February 08, 1999 6:47 PM Patrick, I bought a 4 wt.Mackenzie line and used it last summer on the two =rods I built-- a 4' 4" one piece A. J. Thramer taper and the Sir Daryll =Favorite, Wayne's7' 2 piece. I like the line it is softer than the Cortland 444 =that I fishedwith my plastic rods. I'm able to lay down a much better =presentation thatwith the stiffer Cortland. The Mackenzie will probably not shoot =as far asthe Cortland but that is not my main concern where I fish. I =worry more aboutpresentation. I think it compliments a cane rod very well. They =arerelatively inexpensive for a specialty line or so I am told by the =people at Mark Cole ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BE5433.28BB9580 I have tosay = make long casts and shoot line, and I didn't think it shot well = lines, the Cortland 444 (peach color - not the 444 SL green ones) and = Scientific Angler AST lines for bamboo. Just my $.02, and that may be = worth!Hank H. -----Original = <Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.c= RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= <RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= questions? our hands, and could not be seen when the light began to fail (read, = campers, and returned to our tried and true Cortland 444s.(No = piece A. J. Thramer taper and the Sir Daryll Favorite, = =Cole ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BE5433.28BB9580-- from hexagon@odyssee.net Tue Feb 9 14:50:35 1999 Subject: Re: Security at Shows Tony,got me thinking of those Hillbillies in the movie Deliverance. That wouldbe payback time! heh, heh, heh. Terry Tony Young wrote: On a lighter side of all this. Much as I also like the "bobbing forstonefly" idea for the theiving bastards I could take them camping withmein Tasmania. That way you can forgive and they'll remember heh, heh,heh. Tony On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Ted Knott wrote: Thanks for all the comments and suggestions re: "thieving bastards"andwhat to do with them. I especially liked the one about sending theculpret"bobbing for stone flies". However, my original purpose in posting theloss was to warn everyone about the need for vigilance when at publicshows. I'm not awfully concerned about the loss and I think thesuggestions for a "registry" or "stolen List" simply creates a lot ofunnecessary work for someone. I'm with Thramer and Ackland and haveputthe incident into the category of "forgive and remember". /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb?A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from Kevin.Burkhardt@ipaper.com Tue Feb 9 15:04:55 1999 via NOTES " - (052)rodmakers(a)wugate.wustl.edu"," - (052)tyoung(a)perth.dialix.com.au" Subject: Re: Security at Shows Terry, I can't believe you said hillbilly....the proper term is slack-jawed yokel....:-) Kev from lyons@teleport.com Tue Feb 9 15:06:27 1999 0000 (216.26.5.236) Subject: Thread Anyone, I am looking for red and black varigated silk thread in 00 or A. Can anyonehelp me with a source? Dwight lyons from FlyTyr@southshore.com Tue Feb 9 15:22:20 1999 (8.8.5/8.7.3) withESMTP id PAA01051 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 199915:24:07 -0600 Subject: Re: Security at Shows Here in Arkansas we call them Mountain Williams.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.comWhen I was doing FF shows in N.J., Pa., and N.Y. I always had a few fliesdisappear, the five years that I have been here in the Arkansas, Texasarea, Ihave not lost a fly. That don't mean it will not happen. Kevin.Burkhardt@ipaper.com wrote: Terry, I can't believe you said hillbilly....the proper term is slack-jawed yokel....:-) Kev from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Feb 9 18:23:54 1999 Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:20:23 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: Security at Shows On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, Terence Ackland wrote: I had the uncomfortable feeling watching that show it was shot in in acouple of places I know of except the banjo player looked a little on theacademic side. I guess after the sleeping bag therapy thethieving bastards could do a little pig calling before lunch. Tony Tony,got me thinking of those Hillbillies in the movie Deliverance. That wouldbe payback time! heh, heh, heh. Terry Tony Young wrote: On a lighter side of all this. Much as I also like the "bobbing forstonefly" idea for the theiving bastards I could take them camping withmein Tasmania. That way you can forgive and they'll remember heh, heh,heh. Tony On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Ted Knott wrote: Thanks for all the comments and suggestions re: "thieving bastards"andwhat to do with them. I especially liked the one about sending theculpret"bobbing for stone flies". However, my original purpose in posting theloss was to warn everyone about the need for vigilance when atpublicshows. I'm not awfully concerned about the loss and I think thesuggestions for a "registry" or "stolen List" simply creates a lot ofunnecessary work for someone. I'm with Thramer and Ackland andhave putthe incident into the category of "forgive and remember". /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb?A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb? A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from briansr@point-net.com Tue Feb 9 18:42:56 1999 0000 Subject: Re: security at shows Terry you forgot to mention here in tropical(-8deg.c.) Quebec it's too coldmost of the time .So we just make them bob for French fries instead ofwaiting for spring and using the bob for stonefly routine. from dmcfall@ODYSSEE.NET Tue Feb 9 19:18:40 1999 Subject: Re: security at shows At 07:40 PM 09/02/1999 -0500, you wrote:Terry you forgot to mention here in tropical(-8deg.c.) Quebec it's too coldmost of the time .So we just make them bob for French fries instead ofwaiting for spring and using the bob for stonefly routine. If we are really in a nasty mood we make them live on pouteen, pepsi andmaywests. Dave from MasjC1@aol.com Tue Feb 9 20:51:03 1999 Subject: Re: questions? Bill, I can buy the difficulty in seeing the line in low light conditions. Iunwound mine last week to test fit guides on the current rod and it is aslimpand loose as ever. It seems to have very little memory. It sounds like we have two different products. Mark from bjust@bellsouth.net Tue Feb 9 21:38:21 1999 WAA23018 Subject: substitute for steel dowels in forms I'm having a hard time finding steel dowels to use in building my forms.So far I located them at one place that doesn't have them in stock butwould be happy to order all that I need as long as I order at least abox(100ct.)for about $30. I really don't want to have to order a 100 soI am thinking roll pins might be used in place of dowels. These arereadily available in my area and several people at supply housesdescribe their use as essentially the same as dowels. Any thoughtswould be very appreciated. Thanks. Brian Justiss from lyons@teleport.com Tue Feb 9 22:28:27 1999 0000 (216.26.3.14) Subject: Thread Rodmakers, Thanks for the help. Especially the black and white shoe laces. SoundslikeBelvoirdale has it, but the size and the way it looks on the rod seem to beinquestion. This rodmakers, not jokemakers. This is serious business. Dwight from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Tue Feb 9 23:41:11 1999 (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP Wed, 10 Feb 1999 05:40:38 +0000 "Thomas Chandler" Subject: Re: Usenet post I was thinking George L. Herter was re-incarnated. George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Usenet post :-))), does anybody actually listen to this wombat? He sounds like awrestling comentator. Tony On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Thomas Chandler wrote: The subject of George Gehrke's attempt to build a bamboo fly rod for$300orso was brought up on this board earlier. I've always thought George was atotal crackpot with no realistic chance of producing much more than alotofhot air. Nothing he's posted so far has changed my opinion, but his latestpost probably bears posting to this list -- I tend to ignore most ofwhat'sposted on the newsgroups but.... At its best it's insulting, at its worst,well... Tight lines,TC ************ re-post from rec.outdoors.fishing.fly*************** Tonkin Cane cannot be used as the normal term in regards to fly rodsmade from Tonkin. To be perfectly correct and to avoid mistakes, thereis only the latin name that is proper and that is: Arundinaria amabilis. Panda Bears do not eat Arundinaria amabilis. This cane is grown only ina very small area in the south of China up the Sim River, severalhundred miles from the Pacific Ocean. It is remote, and it is the onlyplace on earth where Arundinaria amabilis grows. There are a greatmajority of bamboo fly rods in America that are not made fromArundinaria amabilis, but rather from a close relative known as "TeaStick Bamboo" or Pseudosasa amabilis. This brings up a fact or report that may very well neutralize theintegrity of many bamboo fly rods in this country today. What you'hope' is Arundinaria amabilis may not be the golden reed you were ledto believe it is in your treasured bamboo fly rod. That is all I'mgoing to say on that subject for now. The problem may not be thebuilder's fault but suppliers that passed of another species asArundinaria amabilis when it was not. What to do? Don't worry aboutit. Its too late. The Bastard Bamboo Fly Rods will be made only with certifiableArundinaria amabilis and we have some narrow testing that can be usedtomake sure any future shipments ARE Arundinaria amabilis. The TonkinCane Shipment (those first 40 pieces I paid $385 for?) are Pseudosasaamabilis. They are worthless and I've been cheated out of $385dollars. I am going to send it back if I can. I don't want the moneyrefunded as much as I want to have only 2 - 2.5 inch diameterArundinaria amabilis supplied to us. That is the situation regarding our troubles in finding 'the real thing'in this bamboosa nonsense that surrounds Tonkin. Do NOT refer in thefuture to any cane regarding fly rod bamboo except by its latin name:Arundinaria amabilis. Not if you don't want to get burnt, that is. Itherefore demand of the fly rod bamboo industry that the term Tonkinnever be used in describing anything regarding the subject exceptArundinaria amabilis. Mr. G. --Copyright by George Gehrke 1999All Rights ReservedVisit: http://www.gink.com /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb?A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from spazz@choice.net Wed Feb 10 00:06:19 1999 BAA17794 Subject: lost and stolen rods List, Useful or not, I have added a page to my Flyfishing Site that posts alisting of lost and/or stolen rods. The way I see it, it can't hurt andwill only take a few minutes. The lost/stolen rod page is: http://ww4.choice.net/~spazz/lostrod.htm Listers or others can contact me with pertinent info at this e-mailaddress -Kev from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Feb 10 07:10:35 1999 RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: substitute for steel dowels in forms In a message dated 2/10/99 3:40:14 AM, bjust@bellsouth.net wrote: Try Travers Tool in NYC - 1-800-221-0270, they should have the dowelpins. Theroll pins might well work, but the tolerances won't be as good. Also, theyaremeant to be fasteners, and might be a bit too snug. If you try them , Iwouldsuggest greasing them to cut the friction. from anglport@con2.com Wed Feb 10 07:34:56 1999 "Thomas Chandler" Subject: Re: Usenet post How far is he from Minnesota? Maybe an illegitimate offspring? At 09:43 PM 2/9/99 -0800, irish-george wrote:I was thinking George L. Herter was re-incarnated. George Bourke-----Original Message-----From: Tony Young Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Monday, February 08, 1999 3:29 PMSubject: Re: Usenet post :-))), does anybody actually listen to this wombat? He sounds like awrestling comentator. Tony On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Thomas Chandler wrote: The subject of George Gehrke's attempt to build a bamboo fly rod for$300orso was brought up on this board earlier. I've always thought George wasatotal crackpot with no realistic chance of producing much more than alotofhot air. Nothing he's posted so far has changed my opinion, but his latestpost probably bears posting to this list -- I tend to ignore most ofwhat'sposted on the newsgroups but.... At its best it's insulting, at its worst,well... Tight lines,TC ************ re-post from rec.outdoors.fishing.fly*************** Tonkin Cane cannot be used as the normal term in regards to fly rodsmade from Tonkin. To be perfectly correct and to avoid mistakes, thereis only the latin name that is proper and that is: Arundinaria amabilis. Panda Bears do not eat Arundinaria amabilis. This cane is grown only ina very small area in the south of China up the Sim River, severalhundred miles from the Pacific Ocean. It is remote, and it is the onlyplace on earth where Arundinaria amabilis grows. There are a greatmajority of bamboo fly rods in America that are not made fromArundinaria amabilis, but rather from a close relative known as "TeaStick Bamboo" or Pseudosasa amabilis. This brings up a fact or report that may very well neutralize theintegrity of many bamboo fly rods in this country today. What you'hope' is Arundinaria amabilis may not be the golden reed you were ledto believe it is in your treasured bamboo fly rod. That is all I'mgoing to say on that subject for now. The problem may not be thebuilder's fault but suppliers that passed of another species asArundinaria amabilis when it was not. What to do? Don't worry aboutit. Its too late. The Bastard Bamboo Fly Rods will be made only with certifiableArundinaria amabilis and we have some narrow testing that can be usedtomake sure any future shipments ARE Arundinaria amabilis. The TonkinCane Shipment (those first 40 pieces I paid $385 for?) are Pseudosasaamabilis. They are worthless and I've been cheated out of $385dollars. I am going to send it back if I can. I don't want the moneyrefunded as much as I want to have only 2 - 2.5 inch diameterArundinaria amabilis supplied to us. That is the situation regarding our troubles in finding 'the real thing'in this bamboosa nonsense that surrounds Tonkin. Do NOT refer in thefuture to any cane regarding fly rod bamboo except by its latin name:Arundinaria amabilis. Not if you don't want to get burnt, that is. Itherefore demand of the fly rod bamboo industry that the term Tonkinnever be used in describing anything regarding the subject exceptArundinaria amabilis. Mr. G. --Copyright by George Gehrke 1999All Rights ReservedVisit: http://www.gink.com /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb?A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Wed Feb 10 07:48:02 1999 Subject: Lathe Brian,What's the swing and bed length? It sounds like it might be a good buy.Didn't Garrison use an Altas lathe?Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net BT>I have access to an Atlas lathe model 618. They want $700 for it. IsthisBT>a good price? It sounds like it would be more than adequate forBT>rodbuilding. Does anyone use one? BT>Brian ThomanBT>The Chattahoochee River Rod CompanyBT>Parker, ColoradoBT>http://www.bambooflyrods.comBT>(303) 805-5733 from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Wed Feb 10 07:53:24 1999 Subject: substitute for steel dowels in forms Brian,Again you have think industrial supply houses and or fastener supplyhouses. You might also try some machine or tool and die shops. Roll pins might work if their not too tight. They are made of springsteel and are made to be compressed slightly so that they stay in place.If the hole is slightly larger on one side of the form, this might workreal well.Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net BJ>I'm having a hard time finding steel dowels to use in building myforms.BJ>So far I located them at one place that doesn't have them in stock butBJ>would be happy to order all that I need as long as I order at least aBJ>box(100ct.)for about $30. I really don't want to have to order a 100 soBJ>I am thinking roll pins might be used in place of dowels. These areBJ>readily available in my area and several people at supply housesBJ>describe their use as essentially the same as dowels. Any thoughtsBJ>would be very appreciated. Thanks. BJ>Brian Justiss from plantboy@siu.edu Wed Feb 10 09:55:48 1999 0600 0600 Subject: Smithwick 5 1/2 footer I've been off the list for a while, not that I ever posted much, but I'mglad to be back. I've recently had the priviledge of being involved in constructing aSmithwick 5 1/2 ft 5wt (Thanks again 'Dr' J. Kallo). I'm very excited tofinish wrapping the rod. I would like to pose a question to those of youwho've experienced this little beauty. While some of these questions boil down to preference and individual rodperformace I'd like some input from the wealth of knowledge on this list. 1. Is there a maximum length for the cork handle on this rod? I'mguessingI'd like a 6.5 inch. (I'll be turning the myself, because I like a littlemore width than the prefabricated handles have). 2. How many guides are necessary for this rod? 3. I'm considering a Wulff TT 4/5 line, should I consider others? Whathave you preferred? Thanks for your input. I can't wait to put a bend in this rod! Eric Adams from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed Feb 10 11:04:30 1999 (5.5.2407.0) Subject: Dip Tank Motors On jan 2,1999 there was a post on the list about dip tank motors by EdCarlsen. His emailaddress must have changed, does anybody have his new email adress? Hegot 12 volt 1rpm geardrive motors from Tower Hobbies and I have been unable to find anythingat any of the hobbystores Here in Seattle. If anybody could help me out that would be great. from LUU@NMDHST.CC.NIH.GOV Wed Feb 10 11:24:34 1999 Subject: Colorado Bootstrap Hello All,Does anyone knows if Colorado Bootstrap is still in business?. I havetried to contact Frank since Christmas but have been unsuccesful. Is therean alternative source for a rough planing form?. Since I don't have arouter or a table saw, I have to resort to buying a rough planing form.Your help is greatly appreciated.Andy from DBURRILL@TELEHUB.com Wed Feb 10 11:47:25 1999 Subject: RE: Colorado Bootstrap I had a local hardwood shop fabricate mine. I gave them Wayne's diagramand told them to make it out of maple. It cost $35. -----Original Message-----From: ANDREW LUU [SMTP:LUU@NMDHST.CC.NIH.GOV]Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 8:28 AM Subject: Colorado Bootstrap Hello All,Does anyone knows if Colorado Bootstrap is still in business?.I havetried to contact Frank since Christmas but have beenunsuccesful. Is therean alternative source for a rough planing form?. Since I don'thave arouter or a table saw, I have to resort to buying a roughplaning form.Your help is greatly appreciated.Andy from chris@artistree.com Wed Feb 10 12:19:24 1999 Subject: Re: Colorado Bootstrap mac-creator="4D4F5353" Met a fellow last week who had just recently placed an order with FrankatColorado Bootstrap and was in the process of going through the 3 to 4weekwait. So I assume he is still doing business. Chris Wohlford ANDREW LUU wrote: Hello All,Does anyone knows if Colorado Bootstrap is still in business?. I havetried to contact Frank since Christmas but have been unsuccesful. Istherean alternative source for a rough planing form?. Since I don't have arouter or a table saw, I have to resort to buying a rough planing form.Your help is greatly appreciated.Andy from watson@cape-consult.co.uk Wed Feb 10 13:42:02 1999 Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:41:50 GMT "'rodmakers'" Subject: Re: Dip Tank Motors Try RS Components on wwwrs.com. That's where I got mine from.Tim.----- Original Message----- Subject: Dip Tank Motors On jan 2,1999 there was a post on the list about dip tank motors by EdCarlsen. His email address must have changed, does anybody have his newemail adress? He got 12 volt 1rpm gear drive motors from Tower Hobbiesand Ihave been unable to find anything at any of the hobby stores Here inSeattle. If anybody could help me out that would be great. from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Wed Feb 10 13:56:23 1999 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id NAA26719 for; (8.8.4/8.6.8) with SMTP idNAA09263 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 Subject: Anglers Club of New York I'll be camping in Manhattan for a few days. Is there anythingto see at the Anglers Club of NY?......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot- warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Feb 10 14:03:22 1999 12:02:18 -0800 "LUU@NMDHST.CC.NIH.GOV","RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: RE: Colorado Bootstrap Same here, cost me about $20, and they work well.I took it to a cabinetmaker and he made it from scraps that would have been thrown out. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Colorado Bootstrap I had a local hardwood shop fabricate mine. I gave them Wayne's diagramand told them to make it out of maple. It cost $35. -----Original Message-----From: ANDREW LUU [SMTP:LUU@NMDHST.CC.NIH.GOV]Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 8:28 AM Subject: Colorado Bootstrap Hello All,Does anyone knows if Colorado Bootstrap is still in business?.I havetried to contact Frank since Christmas but have beenunsuccesful. Is therean alternative source for a rough planing form?. Since I don'thave arouter or a table saw, I have to resort to buying a roughplaning form.Your help is greatly appreciated.Andy from HARMS1@prodigy.net Wed Feb 10 14:25:19 1999 Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:24:42 -0500 " - (052)hexagon(a)odyssee.net" Cc: " - (052)teekay35(a)interlynx.net" ," - (052)rodmakers(a)wugate.wustl.edu"," - (052)tyoung(a)perth.dialix.com.au" Subject: Re: Security at Shows =_NextPart_000_01BE5509.5CDE6D20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE5509.5CDE6D20 or "ham-fisted yahoo" ----------From: Kevin.Burkhardt@ipaper.com Cc: - (052)teekay35(a)interlynx.net; - (052)rodmakers(a)wugate.wustl.edu ; - (052)tyoung(a)perth.dialix.com.au Subject: Re: Security at ShowsDate: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 12:55 PM Terry, I can't believe you said hillbilly....the proper term is slack-jawedyokel....:-) Kev------=_NextPart_000_01BE5509.5CDE6D20 or "ham-fisted = ------=_NextPart_000_01BE5509.5CDE6D20-- from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Wed Feb 10 14:27:25 1999 R8.30.00.7) Subject: Re: substitute for steel dowels in forms I just made my own. I bought a piece of round steel rod of the diameter described for the dowels at the same place I bought my steel bars. Then I cut them and rounded off the cut ends on a grinder. They work fine and cost all of $2.00 plus some elbow grease.Jon McAnulty ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: substitute for steel dowels in forms Author: at Internet-Mail I'm having a hard time finding steel dowels to use in building my forms. So far I located them at one place that doesn't have them in stock but would be happy to order all that I need as long as I order at least a box(100ct.)for about $30. I really don't want to have to order a 100 so I am thinking roll pins might be used in place of dowels. These are readily available in my area and several people at supply houses describe their use as essentially the same as dowels. Any thoughts would be very appreciated. Thanks. Brian Justiss from TChafor@wavetech.com Wed Feb 10 15:37:50 1999 (IMA Internet Exchange 2.1 Enterprise) id 000789A9; Wed, 10 Feb 9915:29:31 -0600 Subject: to restore or not Dear list Some thing different I have just purchased a very early example (pre WW1?) of an English Greenheart rod made by Allcocks of Reditch. For the most part it is in reasonable condition and I believe that it has all original fittings. However, Some of the rings are loose, and/or the varnish is flaking and some of the rings are slightly corroded. I am fascinated by the "north country" techniques of writers such as Edmonds and Lee. I would therefore like to recreate the methods used parts of England a Greenheart rod was preferred to Split Cane!!! So Q. Would you recommend that I restore the rod for use today (perhaps due to corrosion etc using new fittings but in the original style) or leave it as an original example of British rod building? Thanks Tim Chafor from thramer@presys.com Wed Feb 10 15:40:49 1999 0000 Subject: Vacuum An idea has been hatched with the recent talk about vacuum impregnation.Would not the vacuum 'chamber' be an excellent place to store canestrips to eliminate the dreaded 'moisture' reentry?A.J.Thramer? from thramer@presys.com Wed Feb 10 15:47:04 1999 0000 Subject: Fly lines I am extremely tired of being 'hosed' for these grossly overpriced flylines. I mean REALLY! what are they talking about. Some of these linesare over $60!!. I started to buy Cortland 333 lines after somedissapointing trials with the 'big money' lines. DT only of course. Asan aside it is becoming more difficult to find even DT lines. As far asI am concerned WF line are an abomination. If I wanted to have a linewith one end that won't cast accuratly past 40ft, eliminate line controland not roll cast I would assume that the manufacturers would PAY ME!A.J.Thramer from peter@chickerell.u-net.com Wed Feb 10 16:43:18 1999 (may be forged)) Subject: Re: to restore or not Hi Tim, I am not an expert, but I have been told by various unconnected people atvarious different times that one of the downsides to using old greenheartrods is that they go very brittle. You could hook a devil may care fish andyour rod would get smashed, or you may break it in casting. Rodmaking tradition. The rod will be an excellent talking point with yourfriends and I am sure will give you much pleasure. I have a 1919 Hardy"Crown Houghton" which I rescued. The rod is not complete, missing thetwospare tips and sometime in her life she was shortened. I would not dreamoffishing with the rod, but I enjoy taking the rod out the case with friendsjust to admire. House of Hardy found the original tally record of her whichthey traced from the serial number on the rod and photo copied it and sentit to me. The rod was completed to order on the week ending Friday May16th1919. 10ft 3 inch Crown Houghton. 3 tops 1 is 2/3rd reduced. the rod stillhas her spike concealed in the handle. The ferrules are brass locking typesthat were patented by Hardy's. I often look at the rod and wonder what stories that rod could tell? Hope that is of interest to you and the list. Peter.-----Original Message----- Subject: to restore or not Dear list Some thing different I have just purchased a very early example (pre WW1?) of an EnglishGreenheart rod made by Allcocks of Reditch. For the most part it is inreasonable condition and I believe that it has all original fittings.However, Some of the rings are loose, and/or the varnish is flakingand some of the rings are slightly corroded. I am fascinated by the "north country" techniques of writers such asEdmonds and Lee. I would therefore like to recreate the methods used partsof England a Greenheart rod was preferred to Split Cane!!! So Q. Would you recommend that I restore the rod for use today(perhaps due to corrosion etc using new fittings but in the originalstyle) or leave it as an original example of British rod building? Thanks Tim Chafor from anglport@con2.com Wed Feb 10 16:56:38 1999 Subject: Re: to restore or not Tim,I'm hoping that if this is bad info the rest of the list will correct me.I read somewhere that you had to be real careful working with greenheartasyou can get blood poisoning from the splinters. Any comments?Art At 03:51 PM 2/10/99 -0600, Tim Chafor wrote: Dear list Some thing different I have just purchased a very early example (pre WW1?) of an English Greenheart rod made by Allcocks of Reditch. For the most part it is in reasonable condition and I believe that it has all original fittings. However, Some of the rings are loose, and/or the varnish is flaking and some of the rings are slightly corroded. I am fascinated by the "north country" techniques of writers such as Edmonds and Lee. I would therefore like to recreate the methods used parts of England a Greenheart rod was preferred to Split Cane!!! So Q. Would you recommend that I restore the rod for use today (perhaps due to corrosion etc using new fittings but in the original style) or leave it as an original example of British rod building? Thanks Tim Chafor from maxrod@geocities.com Wed Feb 10 17:08:46 1999 Subject: for Gary Lohkamp only - neglect for others Sorry list, (this should be done by offlist but offlist doesn't work bysome unknown reason.) Gary, I received your email. I am sending you several messages these days.I will call you tonight. Max from pdcorlis@nidc.edu Wed Feb 10 17:18:23 1999 with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:19:41 -0800 Subject: Re: to restore or not Hi Tim Don't know about your specific Greenheat rod but one thing every viewer ofthe "Antique RoadShow" has learned by now... if you think the piece of history in your handshas any valuereal dollar value, DO NOT refinish or restore it before you get it valued bya pro.Sometimes well meaning restorations end up destroying the historical andeconomic value ofthe piece. Lessons learned... Phil from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Feb 10 17:53:48 1999 sims.3.5.1998.03.08.20.27)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, Subject: RE: Fly lines expensive in Canada than in the United States. For example, a 444 DT costsus a mere $33.99 Cdn (about $22.50 U.S.). The same line from some placelikeCabelas costs $36 U.S (about $55 Cdn). For those of you traveling toCanada,it may be worth stocking up on fly lines here. Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: Fly lines I am extremely tired of being 'hosed' for these grossly overpriced flylines. I mean REALLY! what are they talking about. Some of these linesare over $60!!. I started to buy Cortland 333 lines after somedissapointing trials with the 'big money' lines. DT only of course. Asan aside it is becoming more difficult to find even DT lines. As far asI am concerned WF line are an abomination. If I wanted to have a linewith one end that won't cast accuratly past 40ft, eliminate line controland not roll cast I would assume that the manufacturers would PAY ME!A.J.Thramer from BThoman@neonsoft.com Wed Feb 10 17:59:18 1999 Subject: RE: Fly lines Does anybody use the Mastery XPS lines? I've been using those for sometimeand haven't had a complaint. It's supple but won't shoot as far as theLazer lines. Brian ThomanThe Chattahoochee River Rod CompanyParker, Coloradohttp://www.bambooflyrods.com(303) 805-5733 -----Original Message-----From: Richard Nantel [SMTP:richard.nantel@videotron.ca]Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 4:54 PM Subject: RE: Fly lines expensive in Canada than in the United States. For example, a 444 DTcostsus a mere $33.99 Cdn (about $22.50 U.S.). The same line from some placelikeCabelas costs $36 U.S (about $55 Cdn). For those of you traveling toCanada,it may be worth stocking up on fly lines here. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 4:56 PM Subject: Fly lines I am extremely tired of being 'hosed' for these grossly overpriced flylines. I mean REALLY! what are they talking about. Some of these linesare over $60!!. I started to buy Cortland 333 lines after somedissapointing trials with the 'big money' lines. DT only of course. Asan aside it is becoming more difficult to find even DT lines. As far asI am concerned WF line are an abomination. If I wanted to have a linewith one end that won't cast accuratly past 40ft, eliminate line controland not roll cast I would assume that the manufacturers would PAY ME!A.J.Thramer from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Feb 10 18:30:05 1999 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Re: to restore or not/NOT Phil and list,This statement could not be any more true than any statement made here. Donot touch these things for restoration purposes until you get some advisefroman expert. I remember someone bringing me a Plains rifle one time to lookatthat was there great great grandpas. They told me this gun was kind ofdirtylooking (patina) and the barrel had some wear in the nipple area ( frompowderblast) and the barrel was not an even color all over ( again patina). Sothese people let there high school son ( who was in shop class) strip thisgundown and sand the stock down along with the barrel and wire wheel all thebrass to make it shiney again. These people took a very rare rifle thatwasworth $1000.00s of dollars in the rare gun world and turned it into aworthless piece of junk because of not checking with someone with someknowledge of what they had. I almost cried when I saw it and I told thesepeople what they had done was blasphemous. They were so proud of theirson found out what they had done. So as most of you know, don't touch until you find out what you have.Bret from HARMS1@prodigy.net Wed Feb 10 19:44:59 1999 ext.prodigy.net UAA63696;Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:44:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Fly lines =_NextPart_000_01BE5536.0BC4E2C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE5536.0BC4E2C0 Ok. So, Richard, how about letting us in on some of the catalog suppliersup there in the north country? Know of any? Cheers, Bill ----------From: Richard Nantel Subject: RE: Fly linesDate: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 3:53 PM expensive in Canada than in the United States. For example, a 444 DTcostsus a mere $33.99 Cdn (about $22.50 U.S.). The same line from some placelikeCabelas costs $36 U.S (about $55 Cdn). For those of you traveling toCanada,it may be worth stocking up on fly lines here. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 4:56 PM Subject: Fly lines I am extremely tired of being 'hosed' for these grossly overpriced flylines. I mean REALLY! what are they talking about. Some of these linesare over $60!!. I started to buy Cortland 333 lines after somedissapointing trials with the 'big money' lines. DT only of course. Asan aside it is becoming more difficult to find even DT lines. As far asI am concerned WF line are an abomination. If I wanted to have a linewith one end that won't cast accuratly past 40ft, eliminate line controland not roll cast I would assume that the manufacturers would PAY ME!A.J.Thramer------ =_NextPart_000_01BE5536.0BC4E2C0 = expensive in Canada than in the United States. For example, a 444 DT = I am extremely tired of being 'hosed' for these grossly overpriced = A.J.Thramer ------=_NextPart_000_01BE5536.0BC4E2C0-- from HARMS1@prodigy.net Wed Feb 10 19:47:11 1999 ext.prodigy.net UAA39682;Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:47:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Fly lines =_NextPart_000_01BE5536.66539060" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE5536.66539060 I'd be willing to wager (though not much) that the Master Lines are thesame as the Mackenzie. How many British line manufacturers are there,onewonders. Also, the Mackenzie "Bamboo" has that same pebble (read"sandpaper") finish. Cheers, Bill----------From: Thoman, Brian Subject: RE: Fly linesDate: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 3:56 PM Does anybody use the Mastery XPS lines? I've been using those for sometimeand haven't had a complaint. It's supple but won't shoot as far as theLazer lines. Brian ThomanThe Chattahoochee River Rod CompanyParker, Coloradohttp://www.bambooflyrods.com(303) 805-5733 -----Original Message-----From: Richard Nantel [SMTP:richard.nantel@videotron.ca]Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 4:54 PM Subject: RE: Fly lines expensive in Canada than in the United States. For example, a 444 DTcostsus a mere $33.99 Cdn (about $22.50 U.S.). The same line from someplacelikeCabelas costs $36 U.S (about $55 Cdn). For those of you traveling toCanada,it may be worth stocking up on fly lines here. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 4:56 PM Subject: Fly lines I am extremely tired of being 'hosed' for these grossly overpriced flylines. I mean REALLY! what are they talking about. Some of these linesare over $60!!. I started to buy Cortland 333 lines after somedissapointing trials with the 'big money' lines. DT only of course. Asan aside it is becoming more difficult to find even DT lines. As far asI am concerned WF line are an abomination. If I wanted to have a linewith one end that won't cast accuratly past 40ft, eliminate linecontroland not roll cast I would assume that the manufacturers would PAY ME!A.J.Thramer------ =_NextPart_000_01BE5536.66539060 I'd be willing to wager =(though not much) that the Master Lines are the same as the Mackenzie. = pebble = = = 1999 = = = = aside it is becoming more difficult to find even DT lines. As far = A.J.Thramer ------=_NextPart_000_01BE5536.66539060-- from hexagon@odyssee.net Wed Feb 10 19:54:23 1999 Subject: Re: Security at Shows Tony,I would not feel comfortable dealing out retribution like that for one ofmy rods,perhaps the $1300 plus builders could work up more enthusiasm.Dangalang dang dang dang dang dang dang.Terry Tony Young wrote: On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, Terence Ackland wrote: I had the uncomfortable feeling watching that show it was shot in in acouple of places I know of except the banjo player looked a little on theacademic side. I guess after the sleeping bag therapy thethieving bastards could do a little pig calling before lunch. Tony Tony,got me thinking of those Hillbillies in the movie Deliverance. Thatwould be payback time! heh, heh, heh. Terry Tony Young wrote: On a lighter side of all this. Much as I also like the "bobbing forstonefly" idea for the theiving bastards I could take them campingwith mein Tasmania. That way you can forgive and they'll remember heh, heh,heh. Tony On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Ted Knott wrote: Thanks for all the comments and suggestions re: "thieving bastards"andwhat to do with them. I especially liked the one about sending theculpret"bobbing for stone flies". However, my original purpose in postingtheloss was to warn everyone about the need for vigilance when atpublicshows. I'm not awfully concerned about the loss and I think thesuggestions for a "registry" or "stolen List" simply creates a lot ofunnecessary work for someone. I'm with Thramer and Ackland andhave putthe incident into the category of "forgive and remember". /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb?A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb?A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Feb 10 20:13:23 1999 sims.3.5.1998.03.08.20.27)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, Subject: RE: Fly lines rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_7n0JYS6mDwLc0sp2VzhNFA)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_7n0JYS6mDwLc0sp2VzhNFA) Here's someone who owns a store here in Montreal. He's also someone whooccasionally appears on this list, being a budding bamboo rodmaker: Michel Lajoie(450) 699- 0769http://www3.sympatico.ca/moucheuxmoucheux@sympatico.ca He sells Cortland 444 DT for $33.00 Cdn. Michel speaks English well. I'm not associated with him in any way, just a happy customer. Richard-----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 11:44 PM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Fly lines Ok. So, Richard, how about letting us in on some of the catalogsuppliers up there in the north country? Know of any? Cheers, Bill ----------From: Richard Nantel Subject: RE: Fly linesDate: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 3:53 PM lessexpensive in Canada than in the United States. For example, a 444 DTcostsus a mere $33.99 Cdn (about $22.50 U.S.). The same line from someplace likeCabelas costs $36 U.S (about $55 Cdn). For those of you traveling toCanada,it may be worth stocking up on fly lines here. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 4:56 PM Subject: Fly lines I am extremely tired of being 'hosed' for these grossly overpriced flylines. I mean REALLY! what are they talking about. Some of these linesare over $60!!. I started to buy Cortland 333 lines after somedissapointing trials with the 'big money' lines. DT only of course. Asan aside it is becoming more difficult to find even DT lines. As farasI am concerned WF line are an abomination. If I wanted to have a linewith one end that won't cast accuratly past 40ft, eliminate linecontroland not roll cast I would assume that the manufacturers would PAYME!A.J.Thramer --Boundary_(ID_7n0JYS6mDwLc0sp2VzhNFA) someone who owns a store here in Montreal. He's also someone who = appears on this list, being a budding bamboo =rodmaker: Lajoie(450) 699- 0769http://www3.sympatico.ca/mouch=euxmoucheux@sympatico.ca He sells Cortland 444 DT for $33.00 =Cdn. speaks English well. not associated with him in any way, just a happy =customer. Richard -----Original Message-----From: WILLIAM A = linesOk. = = concerned WF line are an abomination. If I wanted to have a = =A.J.Thramer --Boundary_(ID_7n0JYS6mDwLc0sp2VzhNFA)-- from HARMS1@prodigy.net Wed Feb 10 20:18:17 1999 ext.prodigy.net VAA68486;Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:18:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Fly lines =_NextPart_000_01BE553A.B6E86420" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE553A.B6E86420 Alright, Richard! You da MAN! Cheers, Bill ---------- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Fly lines Here's someone who owns a store here in Montreal. He's also someone whooccasionally appears on this list, being a budding bamboo rodmaker: MichelLajoie (450) 699-0769 http://www3.sympatico.ca/moucheuxmoucheux@sympatico.caHe sells Cortland 444 DT for $33.00 Cdn. Michel speaks English well. I'm not associated with him in any way, just ahappy customer. Richard -----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Fly lines Ok. So, Richard, how about letting us in on some of the catalog suppliersup there in the north country? Know of any? Cheers, Bill ----------From: Richard Nantel Subject: RE: Fly linesDate: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 3:53 PM expensive in Canada than in the United States. For example, a 444 DTcostsus a mere $33.99 Cdn (about $22.50 U.S.). The same line from some placelikeCabelas costs $36 U.S (about $55 Cdn). For those of you traveling toCanada,it may be worth stocking up on fly lines here. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 4:56 PM Subject: Fly lines I am extremely tired of being 'hosed' for these grossly overpriced flylines. I mean REALLY! what are they talking about. Some of these linesare over $60!!. I started to buy Cortland 333 lines after somedissapointing trials with the 'big money' lines. DT only of course. Asan aside it is becoming more difficult to find even DT lines. As far asI am concerned WF line are an abomination. If I wanted to have a linewith one end that won't cast accuratly past 40ft, eliminate line controland not roll cast I would assume that the manufacturers would PAY ME!A.J.Thramer ------=_NextPart_000_01BE553A.B6E86420 Alright, Richard! = =thramer@presys.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Fly linesDate: Wednesday, =February 10, 1999 6:14 PMHere's someone who owns a store here in Montreal. He's =also someone who occasionally appears on this list, being a budding =bamboo rodmaker: = sells = way, = -----Original = = = =us in on some of the catalog suppliers up there in the north country? = = expensive in Canada than in the United States. For example, a 444 DT = I am extremely tired of being 'hosed' for these grossly overpriced = A.J.Thramer ------=_NextPart_000_01BE553A.B6E86420-- from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Feb 10 20:45:18 1999 Canerod72@aol.com,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Re: converting tapers Bill & Bill, from my limited experience with nodeless I have found that a giventapernodeless is usually (note the weasel word here) 1 line wgt. stiffer thanthenoded rod of the same taper. FWIW.Hank W. from gmisch@sprynet.com Wed Feb 10 20:52:13 1999 Subject: RE: Fly lines i have two mastery xps lines, and am pretty happy with them. they don'tshoot all that well. they have worn well, considering how many outingsthey've experienced. i'm not sure that i'd replace them with the same line,though, due to the cost. At 04:56 PM 2/10/99 -0700, you wrote:Does anybody use the Mastery XPS lines? I've been using those for sometimeand haven't had a complaint. It's supple but won't shoot as far as theLazer lines. --------------------gary mischcdr, usn (ret.) from dpeaston@wzrd.com Wed Feb 10 21:24:03 1999 Subject: Re: Fly lines At 01:55 PM 2/10/99 -0800, A.J.Thramer wrote:I am extremely tired of being 'hosed' for these grossly overpriced flylines. I mean REALLY! what are they talking about. Some of these linesare over $60!!. I started to buy Cortland 333 lines after somedissapointing trials with the 'big money' lines. DT only of course. Asan aside it is becoming more difficult to find even DT lines. As far asI am concerned WF line are an abomination. If I wanted to have a linewith one end that won't cast accuratly past 40ft, eliminate line controland not roll cast I would assume that the manufacturers would PAY ME!A.J.Thramer I am quite partial to the Wulff TT lines. They seem to work well at lowerlinespeed; giving an excellent loop forming ability. Also good roll casts.JMHO Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from rfairfie@cisco.com Thu Feb 11 00:56:15 1999 SMTP id WAA29807; Subject: Re: substitute for steel dowels in forms Brian, I'm using roll pins in my rough planing form, and they work fine. Isuspect that theywould work well in the regular form if they fit snugly. If they're loose,you won't get thedimensional stability that you would like, i.e., you might end up with oneside of the formhigher than the other. Thanks,RogerAt 09:30 PM 2/9/99 -0600, BRIAN JUSTISS wrote:I'm having a hard time finding steel dowels to use in building my forms.So far I located them at one place that doesn't have them in stock butwould be happy to order all that I need as long as I order at least abox(100ct.)for about $30. I really don't want to have to order a 100 soI am thinking roll pins might be used in place of dowels. These arereadily available in my area and several people at supply housesdescribe their use as essentially the same as dowels. Any thoughtswould be very appreciated. Thanks. Brian Justiss from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Feb 11 01:26:37 1999 (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:26:03 +0000 Subject: Re: Fly lines And leaders (I've heard). They are usually about $3.75 each in the US -- Iunderstand that they are around $1.75US in Canada. George Bourke-----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: RE: Fly lines expensive in Canada than in the United States. For example, a 444 DTcostsus a mere $33.99 Cdn (about $22.50 U.S.). The same line from some placelikeCabelas costs $36 U.S (about $55 Cdn). For those of you traveling toCanada,it may be worth stocking up on fly lines here. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 4:56 PM Subject: Fly lines I am extremely tired of being 'hosed' for these grossly overpriced flylines. I mean REALLY! what are they talking about. Some of these linesare over $60!!. I started to buy Cortland 333 lines after somedissapointing trials with the 'big money' lines. DT only of course. Asan aside it is becoming more difficult to find even DT lines. As far asI am concerned WF line are an abomination. If I wanted to have a linewith one end that won't cast accuratly past 40ft, eliminate line controland not roll cast I would assume that the manufacturers would PAY ME!A.J.Thramer from jefffly@choice.net Thu Feb 11 07:08:37 1999