IAA09691; "rodmakers" Subject: Re: Security at Shows Terry, on this one, I definitely agree with you. Jeff-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Security at Shows Tony,I would not feel comfortable dealing out retribution like that for one ofmy rods,perhaps the $1300 plus builders could work up more enthusiasm.Dangalang dang dang dang dang dang dang.Terry Tony Young wrote: On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, Terence Ackland wrote: I had the uncomfortable feeling watching that show it was shot in in acouple of places I know of except the banjo player looked a little on theacademic side. I guess after the sleeping bag therapy thethieving bastards could do a little pig calling before lunch. Tony Tony,got me thinking of those Hillbillies in the movie Deliverance. Thatwould be payback time! heh, heh, heh. Terry Tony Young wrote: On a lighter side of all this. Much as I also like the "bobbing forstonefly" idea for the theiving bastards I could take them campingwith mein Tasmania. That way you can forgive and they'll remember heh, heh,heh. Tony On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Ted Knott wrote: Thanks for all the comments and suggestions re: "thievingbastards"andwhat to do with them. I especially liked the one about sending theculpret"bobbing for stone flies". However, my original purpose in postingtheloss was to warn everyone about the need for vigilance when atpublicshows. I'm not awfully concerned about the loss and I think thesuggestions for a "registry" or "stolen List" simply creates a lotofunnecessary work for someone. I'm with Thramer and Ackland andhave putthe incident into the category of "forgive and remember". /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb?A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb?A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Feb 11 07:24:21 1999 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Re: to restore or not/NOT Bill,There is a difference between being restored professionally and beingdone bysome amaeture. If done properly by someone who is qualified then thevalue ofthe piece is not hurt. It is when uncle Charlie who is the local fix it guygets ahold of stuff and redoes it is when the value is destroyed. I have afriend who has many fine antique rifles that have been restored by aresponsible professional who's value is intact.Bret from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Feb 11 07:45:44 1999 sims.3.5.1998.03.08.20.27)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, Subject: RE: Fly lines rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu I guess it depends on the brand. Climax leaders sell for $3.99 Cdn here,that's about $2.65 U.S. Leader material is cheap, though. Maxima sells for$2.37 per spool, or only $1.58 US. Richard -----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Fly lines And leaders (I've heard). They are usually about $3.75 each in the US -- Iunderstand that they are around $1.75US in Canada. George Bourke-----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: RE: Fly lines expensive in Canada than in the United States. For example, a 444 DTcostsus a mere $33.99 Cdn (about $22.50 U.S.). The same line from some placelikeCabelas costs $36 U.S (about $55 Cdn). For those of you traveling toCanada,it may be worth stocking up on fly lines here. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 4:56 PM Subject: Fly lines I am extremely tired of being 'hosed' for these grossly overpriced flylines. I mean REALLY! what are they talking about. Some of these linesare over $60!!. I started to buy Cortland 333 lines after somedissapointing trials with the 'big money' lines. DT only of course. Asan aside it is becoming more difficult to find even DT lines. As far asI am concerned WF line are an abomination. If I wanted to have a linewith one end that won't cast accuratly past 40ft, eliminate line controland not roll cast I would assume that the manufacturers would PAY ME!A.J.Thramer from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Thu Feb 11 08:04:37 1999 0500 Subject: was: to restore or not to restore; now: greenheart I've heard of greenheart. There's a wonderful poem in John Engels' bookBig Waters (everybody who loves trout fishing should own and read thisbook) about an old greenheart rod he had. I understand greenheart is akind of wood - does anybopdy build with it any more? What are itsproperties compared to cane? How can it be obtained? Do cane taperswork for it (probably not)? from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Thu Feb 11 08:13:26 1999 Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:13:22 -0500 Subject: RE: converting tapers That is very interesting, considering the theory of many on the listthat the main difference between the nodes and the sweeps is that thenodes are stiffer. -----Original Message-----From: FISHWOOL@aol.com [SMTP:FISHWOOL@aol.com]Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 9:33 PM Canerod72@aol.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: converting tapers Bill & Bill, from my limited experience with nodeless I have found that a giventapernodeless is usually (note the weasel word here) 1 line wgt. stifferthan thenoded rod of the same taper. FWIW.Hank W. from Kevin.Burkhardt@ipaper.com Thu Feb 11 08:35:24 1999 via NOTES Subject: Restoration Questions: South Bend I am restoring a pre-WW2 South Bend model 59, 9 1/2', 3 piece. The rodmeasures out to 9 1/2' but the mid section is about 1 1/2" shorter thanthe tipand butt sections. I don't think the ferrules are original, the lower ferruleset is held (poorly) in place by a set pin that only goes into one side of theferrule. The top ferrule set is more standard. Also the measurements attheferrule stations for the top of the butt are 20/64 and the bottom of themid is16/64...so the taper does not match exactly. I suspect that at one pointthemid section snapped at the bottom ferrule. Anyway...three questions:1). how do I remove the set pins since the cannot be driven through theferrule...they go in on one side only.2). What is my best option for the lower ferrule dilema. I have heard ofguyswrapping a silk base on the too thin section to build it up, and of guysfilingdown the too thick section...which way would retain the strength at thatferrule?3). Does anyone produce reproductions of either/or the "Comficient" grip (Icould do it myself in a pinch) or the "lite-lock" ?reel seat (I think that'swhat the seat is called...I don't have Sinclairs book in front of me) thanks, Kev from dmanders@telusplanet.net Thu Feb 11 09:33:30 1999 don") byedtnps05.telusplanet.net with SMTP id ; Thu, 11 Feb 199908:27:24 - 0700 Subject: Re:Canadian Flyline Suppliers Richard et al, There is a shop in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada that deserves a look. Theyspecialize in fly tying stuff but also have a lot of other items.Have a look @ page 27.And remember the CDN buck is @ 60 cents to the US buck. address is http://www.telusplanet.net/public/flytying/catalog1.html Known these folks for 20 or so years - great retail outfit. Used toshipping stuff everywhere. enjoy, Don from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Feb 11 09:46:39 1999 sims.3.5.1998.03.08.20.27)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, Subject: RE: Canadian Flyline Suppliers HARMS1@prodigy.net Hi everyone, Actually, the Canadian dollar is on a bit of a rebound after the Asian fluhit us earlier this year. We were around $.73 U.S. last year, dropped to$.63 U.S and have now gained back some of the loss. It's now up to .66-.67to the U.S. dollar. Still many bargains to be found, though. Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: Re:Canadian Flyline Suppliers Richard et al, There is a shop in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada that deserves a look. Theyspecialize in fly tying stuff but also have a lot of other items.Have a look @ page 27.And remember the CDN buck is @ 60 cents to the US buck. address is http://www.telusplanet.net/public/flytying/catalog1.html Known these folks for 20 or so years - great retail outfit. Used toshipping stuff everywhere. enjoy, Don from lyons@teleport.com Thu Feb 11 10:21:45 1999 0000 (216.26.4.174) Subject: Resoration Questions Kevin Burkhard, I think South Bends are plentiful enough so that you should bee able to findasuitable replacement. I may have a few mids on hand. As far as removingtheferrule that is pinned in one side only, the only solution is to drill the pinuntil it is down below the ferrule wall and then heat and remove. I may beable to help you out with a ferrule or two and maybe even a reel seat. Letme know. Dwight lyons from Kevin.Burkhardt@ipaper.com Thu Feb 11 13:16:39 1999 via NOTES Subject: smithwick binder Hi,I'm building one of the Smithwick style binders...Does anyone know a source to get 5/8" o.d. copper tube? Everywhere I looktheyonly have 1/2" and 3/4". thanks Kev from Kevin.Burkhardt@ipaper.com Thu Feb 11 13:23:23 1999 via NOTES Subject: yet another question: Rod Marker I'm full of them today: What is the prefered pen or marker used by thelistersto mark their rods? thanks Kev from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Feb 11 13:39:16 1999 via smap (4.1) 11:46:24 PST Subject: RE: yet another question: Rod Marker Kevin, I use the Pentel Pigma with a .005" tip. This produces very fine writing, so you may want to use the next size larger in tip. This ink can be varnished over, and it is fade proof. The President of our United States signs documents with this pen because of it's fade proof qualities. The ink will not tolerate alcohol however, which is fine as long as Kennedy isn't elected. If you clean blanks with denatured alcohol, avoid the writing. That is the point I was trying to make...I think. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from rclarke@eou.edu Thu Feb 11 13:42:19 1999 11:41:36 -0800 " - (052)rodmakers(a)mail.wustl.edu" Subject: RE: smithwick binder I found mine at a local hardware store, but I had to go to 3 to find it. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu -----Original Message----- Subject: smithwick binder Hi,I'm building one of the Smithwick style binders...Does anyone know a source to get 5/8" o.d. copper tube? Everywhere I looktheyonly have 1/2" and 3/4". thanks Kev from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Feb 11 13:58:17 1999 via smap (4.1) 12:04:52 PST Subject: RE: yet another question: Rod Marker Kevin, After all that I gave you the wrong name. It's a Pigma Micron 005. It's also water proof. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from rp43640@online-club.de Thu Feb 11 14:33:48 1999 +0100 (MET) Subject: Stabilized reel seats to the list: having read the discussion on stabilizing real seats I could rememberthat archeologists when trying to recover waterlogged ships use similiarmaterials. I found one source PRG. They make a low viscosity epoxy.They also have a homepage: http://www.prginc.com/prod-index/jp-146.htmlThere you can find any necessary information technical data and even theimportant material safety data sheet (MSDS).Now I still have to find out if they will ship to Germany. The price didnot seem to be impressive. If anybody should try this, please let me know about the results. tight lines Christian from rfairfie@cisco.com Thu Feb 11 14:58:52 1999 SMTP id MAA09700; Subject: RE: converting tapers I have done a couple of quick tests with the excess cut off strips prior toany planing orheat treating to determine the relative strength of the node vs the sweepbetween the nodes.I grasp the scrap at each end and arch the scrap upwards until failureoccurs. Everytime Ihave done this, the strip has failed between the nodes; never at a node. The enamel side isalways to the outside of the arch, and I've made every attempt todistribute the forces sothat the sweeps are unduly stressed. I agree with Darryl's observationthat the nodes arestiffer than the section between the nodes. I have come to the conclusionthat they arestronger, too. One caveat, though, is that they are also more brittle, andwhen they fail(which I have made them do by sideways bending) they crack off; theydon't fracture powerfiber by power fiber like the sweeps between the nodes do. My $0.02 worth. Thanks,Roger At 09:15 AM 2/11/99 -0500, Seth Steinzor wrote:That is very interesting, considering the theory of many on the listthat the main difference between the nodes and the sweeps is that thenodes are stiffer. -----Original Message-----From: FISHWOOL@aol.com [SMTP:FISHWOOL@aol.com]Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 9:33 PM Canerod72@aol.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: converting tapers Bill & Bill, from my limited experience with nodeless I have found that a giventapernodeless is usually (note the weasel word here) 1 line wgt. stifferthan thenoded rod of the same taper. FWIW.Hank W. from chris@artistree.com Thu Feb 11 15:56:43 1999 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu =?iso-8859-1?Q?=2A=A1?=" Subject: Re: Stabilized reel seats (PENTACRYL) This reminds me that I meant to post this. PENTACRYLOne of the headaches of turning your own reel seats from various woodsespecially burled wood is the tendency for the material to crack andcheck. I recently expressed my frustration to some friends of mine whoturnburled woods into beautiful artistic bowls on the lathe. Theyrecommended I try a new product called PENTACRYL. The company whomanufactures this product first developed it for use in museums whichneeded a way to stabilize and preserve water logged wood. It probably should be first stated that wood treated with PENTACRYL isnotsame as wood that has been impregnated with an acrylic or othervarious solvent based resin formulations. These are usually done within avacuum and produce a stable, water proof and plastic looking endproduct. For the average rod builder the costs for this kind of setup areprohibitive and can be potential dangerous to operate. PENTACRYL, on the other hand is safe, non-toxic, fast working and easy touse. The end result is a stabilized piece of wood that can be turned orstored without fear of cracking or checking. It does not change the colorof the wood and it can be finished with conventional finishes and gluedwith conventional glues. The only two downfalls I have found are: 1) it'snot completely waterproof so your real seat treated with PENTACRYL willneed a finish such as urethane varnish. 2) it will not fill in holes orsoft spots found in some wood pieces. So you need to pick (or fill) yourwood carefully. The best way to use PENTACRYL is to immerse the wood turning block inthesolution for 24 hours for each inch in length. For a four inch long woodreal seat block, four days should just about do it. The ideal room temp.range while soaking should between 60Ÿ - 70Ÿ F. The container used canbeplastic or fiberglass but not made of metal. PENTACRYL actually works bycapillary action so the wetter or greener the wood the faster and moreeffectively it works. The amount of time needed for absorption also canvary depending on the grain, moisture content and type of wood you areusing so it's best to experiment with a few pieces before committing todoing a large quantity. After removing the wood from the PENTACRYL solution it needs to be lefttodry. PENTACRYL actually displaces the moisture (water molecules) in thewood. If the wood is left to dry on it's own with an ideal room temp of 60Ÿ- 70Ÿ F and relative humidity of 50%-55%, the piece could be dry within 2to 3 weeks. Longer for larger pieces. Another method of drying is to let itdry for a few days, then place the pieces in a cardboard box and put in thefreezer. Yes, the freezer. The water molecules will evaporate in thefreezer and this is the recommend procedure for wildly grained woods. Turning the wood on the lathe is fairly easy as the PENTACRYL actuallytends to lubricate the wood turning. Before applying a finish make sure thewood has thoroughly dried and most importantly wipe down the surfacewith asolvent such as mineral spirits or acetone. Pieces treated withPENTACRYLaccept just about every finish available including urethanes, varnishes andtung oil. It can even can be stained. I spoke with the folks who manufacture PENTACRYL and was supprized tolearnthat they were all ready aware that people might be using their products resin formulation that would also be waterproof. The biggest hurdle beingthat most water proof formulations would need a solvent based resin towork. Most of which are classified as hazardous materials. Creating aproduct that is safe for the general public to use and that will satisfyall the various individual state's environmental regulation's will not benot an easy task. I wish them luck. If you wish to contact the manufacture and/or purchase PENTACRYL theycan be reached at:Preservation Solutions1060 Bunker Hill RoadJefferson ME 04348phone: (207) 563-5414email: knobloch@lincoln.midcoast.com PENTACRYL can also be purchased through:Packard WoodworksPO. Box 718Tryon, NC 28782phone: (800) 683-8876 P.S. - Cost is approx. $15 for a quart, $45 a gallon. Best Regards,Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com Christian Meinke wrote: to the list: having read the discussion on stabilizing real seats I could rememberthat archeologists when trying to recover waterlogged ships usesimiliarmaterials. from HARMS1@prodigy.net Thu Feb 11 17:48:36 1999 Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:48:26 -0500 , Subject: Re: Re: to restore or not/NOT =_NextPart_000_01BE55EE.FB8494A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE55EE.FB8494A0 Bret, Well, yes, a poorly restored gun or rod (or anything else) would bedepreciated in value. That goes without saying. But that's not quite whatwere talking about here. The problem I am having with many guns and rodsthat have become "collectors items" is their artificially inflated value-- value way, way beyond what their actual quality could justify. Marketvalue that is "there" only if the piece is left unaltered from itsoriginal condition. Better, still, if the gun is unfired or the rod isunfished. And, again, it is chiefly the American collectors that haveinsisted upon this. A piece of unaltered and unusable junk hanging over your fireplace mantleis likely to have "market value" far greater than if that same piece werewell- restored and put back into honorable service again -- ostensibly, theonly purpose for which the artifact was built in the first place. THIS ISLUNACY!!! And I won't stand for it. I restore everything (that deservesit) back to its original, pristine condition (or better), and TO HELL withthe collectors' stupid notions of "value." Good guns and good rods are meant to be used, and I wouldn't have it anyother way. Now, if you are a museum curator, then that's a different setof considerations altogether. But collectors are often neither users oftheir collections, nor curators. They are investors who are playing, notwith the guns or rods, but with the perceived dollar value of the stuff they accumulate,and with the expectation that the market will rise. And it is only inTHAT sense that the artifacts are seen as having "value." This isappropriate for stocks and bonds, but why should those of us who wouldliketo use and appreciate the beauty of our rods and guns be coerced by thesecollectors' sense of "value?" Bottom line: If you have a rod or a gun that you love, and would like torestore it to its original beautiful condition so you can enjoy its lifeonce again, for God's sake, DO IT! Cheers, Bill ----------From: Grhghlndr@aol.com owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Re: to restore or not/NOTDate: Thursday, February 11, 1999 5:22 AM Bill,There is a difference between being restored professionally and beingdone bysome amaeture. If done properly by someone who is qualified then thevalue ofthe piece is not hurt. It is when uncle Charlie who is the local fix itguygets ahold of stuff and redoes it is when the value is destroyed. I haveafriend who has many fine antique rifles that have been restored by aresponsible professional who's value is intact.Bret------ =_NextPart_000_01BE55EE.FB8494A0 Bret,Well, yes, a =poorly restored gun or rod (or anything else) would be depreciated in = their artificially inflated value -- value way, way beyond what = unusable junk hanging over your fireplace mantle is likely to have = =well-restored and put back into honorable service again -- ostensibly, =the only purpose for which the artifact was built in the first place. = restore everything (that deserves it) back to its original, pristine = investors who are playing, not with the guns or rods, but with the =perceived dollar value of the stuff they accumulate, and with the = THAT sense that the artifacts are seen as having "value." = those of us who would like to use and appreciate the beauty of our rods =and guns be coerced by these collectors' sense of = that you love, and would like to restore it to its original beautiful =condition so you can enjoy its life once again, for God's sake, DO = = ------=_NextPart_000_01BE55EE.FB8494A0-- from anglport@con2.com Thu Feb 11 17:59:36 1999 " - (052)rodmakers(a)mail.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: smithwick binder Kevin,Isn't 1/2 ID 5/8 OD?Art At 01:07 PM 2/11/99 -0600, Kevin.Burkhardt@ipaper.com wrote:Hi,I'm building one of the Smithwick style binders...Does anyone know a source to get 5/8" o.d. copper tube? Everywhere Ilooktheyonly have 1/2" and 3/4". thanks Kev from anglport@con2.com Thu Feb 11 18:07:36 1999 " - (052)rodmakers(a)mail.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: yet another question: Rod Marker Again,I use a dip pen and India ink. It's about the narrowest nib you can get (Ididn't buy it, I inherited it from my grandfather). The India ink seems tobe permanent under any thing but water. Get one holder and one or two ofthe finest ([probably calligraphic) nibs you can find and they'll last aslong as the bottle of ink (or 50 years, whichever comes first). It worksbest if you scuff the varnish with fine abrasive first. Art At 01:14 PM 2/11/99 -0600, Kevin.Burkhardt@ipaper.com wrote:I'm full of them today: What is the prefered pen or marker used by thelistersto mark their rods? thanks Kev from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Feb 11 18:47:36 1999 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: to restore or not/NOT DFACCD5DF52834970D48CF25" --------------DFACCD5DF52834970D48CF25 Bill,if a cane fishing rod has been badly stored for a period of time it willnever perform as when it was new, no matter how much you 'tart it up'.It could end up a costly mistake that will only be realized afterrestoration.There is not too much in the way of 'good rods' left out there, you onlyhave to look in dealers catalogues.Terry Ackland WILLIAM A HARMS wrote: Bret, Well, yes, a poorly restored gun or rod (or anything else) would bedepreciated in value. That goes without saying. But that's not quitewhat were talking about here. The problem I am having with many gunsand rods that have become "collectors items" is their artificiallyinflated value -- value way, way beyond what their actual qualitycould justify. Market value that is "there" only if the piece isleft unaltered from its original condition. Better, still, if the gunis unfired or the rod is unfished. And, again, it is chiefly theAmerican collectors that have insisted upon this. A piece of unaltered and unusable junk hanging over your fireplacemantle is likely to have "market value" far greater than if that samepiece were well- restored and put back into honorable service again --ostensibly, the only purpose for which the artifact was built in thefirst place. THIS IS LUNACY!!! And I won't stand for it. I restoreeverything (that deserves it) back to its original, pristine condition(or better), and TO HELL with the collectors' stupid notions of"value." Good guns and good rods are meant to be used, and I wouldn't have itany other way. Now, if you are a museum curator, then that's adifferent set of considerations altogether. But collectors are oftenneither users of their collections, nor curators. They are investorswho are playing, not with the gunsor rods, but with the perceived dollar value of the stuff theyaccumulate, and with the expectation that the market will rise. Andit is only in THAT sense that the artifacts are seen as having"value." This is appropriate for stocks and bonds, but why shouldthose of us who would like to use and appreciate the beauty of ourrods and guns be coerced by these collectors' sense of "value?" Bottom line: If you have a rod or a gun that you love, and would liketo restore it to its original beautiful condition so you can enjoy itslife once again, for God's sake, DO IT! Cheers, Bill ----------From: Grhghlndr@aol.com owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Re: to restore or not/NOTDate: Thursday, February 11, 1999 5:22 AM Bill,There is a difference between being restored professionally andbeing done bysome amaeture. If done properly by someone who is qualified thenthe value ofthe piece is not hurt. It is when uncle Charlie who is the localfix it guygets ahold of stuff and redoes it is when the value is destroyed. Ihave afriend who has many fine antique rifles that have been restored by a responsible professional who's value is intact.Bret --------------DFACCD5DF52834970D48CF25 Bill,if a cane fishing rod has been badly stored for a period of time itwill never perform as when it was new, no matter how much you 'tart itup'. It could end up a costly mistake that will only be realized afterrestoration.There is not too much in the way of 'good rods' left out there, youonly have to look in dealers catalogues.Terry Ackland WILLIAM A HARMS wrote:Bret, Well,yes, a poorly restored gun or rod (or anything else) would be depreciated and inflated value -- value way, way beyond what their actual quality the American collectors that have insisted uponthis. A pieceof unaltered and unusable junk hanging over your fireplace mantle is likely well-restoredand put back into honorable service again -- ostensibly, the only purpose and TO HELL with the collectors' stupid notions of"value." Good are investors who are playing, not with thegunsorrods, but with the perceived dollar value of the stuff they accumulate, is only in THAT sense that the artifacts are seen as having This is appropriate for stocks and bonds, but why should those of us whowould like to use and appreciate the beauty of our rods and guns becoerced Bottom restore it to its original beautiful condition so you can enjoy its lifeonce again, for God's sake, DO IT! Cheers,Bill ---------- pdcorlis@nidc.edu;owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Bill, There is a difference between being restored professionally and beingdoneby the value of fix it guy I have a friend who has many fine antique rifles that have been restored bya responsible professional who's value is intact. Bret --------------DFACCD5DF52834970D48CF25-- from dragnfly@uniserve.com Thu Feb 11 19:05:45 1999 Subject: unsubscribe boundary="----=_NextPart_000_04F4_01BE55E0.8AA8B4E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_04F4_01BE55E0.8AA8B4E0 ------=_NextPart_000_04F4_01BE55E0.8AA8B4E0 ------=_NextPart_000_04F4_01BE55E0.8AA8B4E0-- from SBDunn@aol.com Thu Feb 11 19:48:56 1999 Subject: A & F Monogram 9' 6 oz Salmon Rod Can anyone tell me anything about a supposedly bamboo fly rod labeled (inscript) "A and F Monogram" "Salmon Rod 9'-6oz." "Line Size #8". The rod isround and "Salmon red" in color. Bought in the 1940s from Aberchrombie and Fitch. Reel seat is greenmetal butlooks like a Heddon. The rest of the rod (as near as I can tell from thepicture he emailed me) does not look like Heddon. If anyone can tell me anything about the rod (including approx. value) Iwouldappreciate it. Thanks in advance, Steve. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Feb 11 19:52:24 1999 Kevin.Burkhardt@ipaper.com, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Re: yet another question: Rod Marker All,I ,too, use a nib pen and india ink-works for me. Also, the new white outnon water based crap runs like crazy so I use india ink on my flamed rods- just turn up the lights a little more.:-)Hank W. from HARMS1@prodigy.net Thu Feb 11 20:05:03 1999 ext.prodigy.net VAA128346;Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:04:53 -0500 , Subject: Re: to restore or not/NOT =_NextPart_000_01BE5602.09A23020" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE5602.09A23020 Surely, Terry. If the rod or gun (or whatever) can no longer reasonablybe used as it was once intended, there is little point in fooling with it. At that point, the item has only two potential values -- either first case one might still restore the item if he just wants to admire itsformer glory, while in the second case he had better just leave the thingalone and find somebody to write a check. My point is that if you have a rod or a gun you love and it seems capableof being restored to the use for which it was once intended, DO IT, but doit well! Then USE it , and enjoy! And never mind the collector whoclaims you will have "ruined its value." What does THIS guy know aboutvalue? If you're concerned about maximizing your investments, learnaboutthe stock market. That's a game that will produce "value," if money isyour objective. (And, you'll realize still greater profits with which tobuy still MORE good rods and guns to restore.) See? Life can be good. Screw the collectors and their notions about whatyour rod is worth! Cheers, Bill ---------- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: to restore or not/NOT Bill, if a cane fishing rod has been badly stored for a period of time it willnever perform as when it was new, no matter how much you 'tart it up'. Itcould end up a costly mistake that will only be realized after restoration. There is not too much in the way of 'good rods' left out there, you onlyhave to look in dealers catalogues. Terry Ackland WILLIAM A HARMS wrote: Bret, Well, yes, a poorly restored gun or rod (or anything else) would bedepreciated in value. That goes without saying. But that's not quite whatwere talking about here. The problem I am having with many guns and rodsthat have become "collectors items" is their artificially inflated value-- value way, way beyond what their actual quality could justify. Marketvalue that is "there" only if the piece is left unaltered from itsoriginal condition. Better, still, if the gun is unfired or the rod isunfished. And, again, it is chiefly the American collectors that haveinsisted upon this. A piece of unaltered and unusable junk hanging over your fireplace mantleis likely to have "market value" far greater than if that same piece werewell-restored and put back into honorable service again -- ostensibly, theonly purpose for which the artifact was built in the first place. THIS ISLUNACY!!! And I won't stand for it. I restore everything (that deservesit) back to its original, pristine condition (or better), and TO HELL withthe collectors' stupid notions of "value." Good guns and good rods are meant to be used, and I wouldn't have it anyother way. Now, if you are a museum curator, then that's a different setof considerations altogether. But collectors are often neither users oftheir collections, nor curators. They are investors who are playing, notwith the guns or rods, but with the perceived dollar value of the stuff they accumulate,and with the expectation that the market will rise. And it is only inTHAT sense that the artifacts are seen as having "value." This isappropriate for stocks and bonds, but why should those of us who wouldliketo use and appreciate the beauty of our rods and guns be coerced by thesecollectors' sense of "value?" Bottom line: If you have a rod or a gun that you love, and would like torestore it to its original beautiful condition so you can enjoy its lifeonce again, for God's sake, DO IT! Cheers, Bill ---------- ------=_NextPart_000_01BE5602.09A23020 Surely, Terry. the rod or gun (or whatever) can no longer reasonably be used as it was = point, the item has only two potential values -- either = the first case one might still restore the item if he just wants =to admire its former glory, while in the second case he had better just =leave the thing alone and find somebody to write a check.My =point is that if you have a rod or a gun you love and it seems capable =of being restored to the use for which it was once intended, DO IT, but = the collector who claims you will have "ruined its value." = =concerned about maximizing your investments, learn about the stock = greater profits with which to buy still MORE good rods and guns to = collectors and their notions about what your rod is = pdcorlis@nidc.edu; owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: to restore or not/NOTDate: =Thursday, February 11, 1999 4:49 PMBill, if a cane fishing rod has been badly stored = =how much you 'tart it up'. It could end up a costly mistake that will =only be realized after restoration. There is not too much in the way =of 'good rods' left out there, you only have to look in dealers =catalogues. Terry Ackland WILLIAM A HARMS wrote: Bret, Well, yes, a poorly restored gun or rod (or anything else) = = having with many guns and rods that have become "collectors = way, way beyond what their actual quality could justify. = the American collectors that have insisted upon this. =A piece of unaltered and unusable junk hanging =over your fireplace mantle is likely to have "market value" = back into honorable service again -- ostensibly, the only purpose for = (that deserves it) back to its original, pristine condition (or better), =and TO HELL with the collectors' stupid notions of ="value." Good guns = are investors who are playing, not with the guns =or rods, but with the perceived dollar value of =the stuff they accumulate, and with the expectation that the market will = and bonds, but why should those of us who would like to use and =appreciate the beauty of our rods and guns be coerced by these = and would like to restore it to its original beautiful condition so you =can enjoy its life once again, for God's sake, DO IT! =Cheers, Bill ---------- ------=_NextPart_000_01BE5602.09A23020-- from bjust@bellsouth.net Thu Feb 11 21:37:57 1999 WAA13560 Subject: Re: Smithwick style binders I used to work in a plumbing supply store and if I remember correctly wehad rolls of 5/8. It was expensive for a whole roll so your best betwould be to buy scrap pieces from a plumber. In my area the plumbersalways saved the scraps to sell to recyclers so call around and I'm sureyou can find some cheap. Brian Justiss from bjust@bellsouth.net Thu Feb 11 21:51:09 1999 WAA15334 Subject: Re: dowel pins I want to thank everybody for their assistance. Most of you are togenerous, but I really appreciate the help. The only industrial supplycompany in my area only sells to businesses and none of the machineshops were interested in selling to me from their supply, so it lookslike I might have to mailorder. The idea of cutting my own from rodseems like a good idea. Has anyone had any bad experiences doing this oris their a particular way I should go about it? ThanksBrian Justiss from channer@hubwest.com Thu Feb 11 22:04:40 1999 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A8D0155013A; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:06:40 MST Subject: Re: dowel pins At 09:43 PM 2/11/99 -0600, BRIAN JUSTISS wrote:I want to thank everybody for their assistance. Most of you are togenerous, but I really appreciate the help. The only industrial supplycompany in my area only sells to businesses and none of the machineshops were interested in selling to me from their supply, so it lookslike I might have to mailorder. The idea of cutting my own from rodseems like a good idea. Has anyone had any bad experiences doing this oris their a particular way I should go about it? ThanksBrian Justiss Brian;You can buy boxes of 25 (I think, or maybe its 100, but still not muchmoney) from Enco.John from channer@hubwest.com Thu Feb 11 22:07:21 1999 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A973161013A; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:09:23 MST Subject: phone number for Hoagy Carmichael Guys;Does anyone happen to know Hoagy's phone number? john from spazz@choice.net Thu Feb 11 22:56:42 1999 XAA18941; Subject: Re: Smithwick style binders All, Thanks for the tips. I found some 5/8 " copper pipe at a local plumbingsupplier that was still a little narrow for the inner diameter of mypulleys...the fix: the supplier had 1 and 2" sections of repair shims forthe same pipe that just so happened to fit snuggly in the pulleys andsecurewith the set screw. Now I've got a copper/copper rotation that is quitesmooth. Apparently the guy was a fisherman because he sort of blew meoffuntil I told him my intended use! thanks again to all Kev BRIAN JUSTISS wrote: I used to work in a plumbing supply store and if I remember correctly wehad rolls of 5/8. It was expensive for a whole roll so your best betwould be to buy scrap pieces from a plumber. In my area the plumbersalways saved the scraps to sell to recyclers so call around and I'm sureyou can find some cheap. Brian Justiss from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Thu Feb 11 23:46:55 1999 with ESMTP id AAA4F68 for ;Fri, 12 Feb 1999 06:44:13 +0100 Subject: Re: restore or not boundary="------------359AB7DC3A90204632B8C19C" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 359AB7DC3A90204632B8C19C I agree with the thoughts from Bret, two weeks ago i was on afisherman`s Meeting and bought some old Pezon&Michel Parabolic Canerods. All poorly restored, without anyexperience, a "sacrileg", and nothing worth. But for me was good, worthenough regardsStefan --S. Grau`s * atelier edelweiss *Gespliesste Angelruten _ Bamboo RodsAlpine Fliegenfischerschule & GuidingAlpine Flyfishing School & Guiding Brunnadernstr. 11 3006 Berne/SwitzerlandPhone: ++41 (0) 31 352 42 88 ab 19.00 / from 7.pme-mail: gespliesst@bluewin.ch --------------359AB7DC3A90204632B8C19C name="gespliesst.vcf" filename="gespliesst.vcf" begin:vcard n:* atelier edelweiss *;S. Grau`s url:http://members.tripod.com/Bamboorods/default.htmadr:;;Brunnadernstr. 31;Berne;Switzerland;3006;Switzerlandversion:2.1email;internet:gespliesst@bluewin.chfn:Bamboo Rods - gespliesste Angelrutenend:vcard --------------359AB7DC3A90204632B8C19C-- from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Fri Feb 12 00:56:54 1999 (5.5.2232.9) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: dowel pins Brian,cutting your own from rod is an absolute doddle. I have restoredsome classic motorcycles in my time and have had to make my own dowelpinson many occasions. As a matter of fact I don't think I could bring myselfto pay for one these days. Just cut some appropriate sized rod to thedesired length, smooth off the cut edges on a bench grinder (or with afile), and "Hey Presto" you have become the proud new owner of a custommadedowel pin. Good luck and "May the trout be with you" Mike R -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: dowel pins I want to thank everybody for their assistance. Most of you are togenerous, but I really appreciate the help. The only industrial supplycompany in my area only sells to businesses and none of the machineshops were interested in selling to me from their supply, so it lookslike I might have to mailorder. The idea of cutting my own from rodseems like a good idea. Has anyone had any bad experiences doing this oris their a particular way I should go about it? ThanksBrian Justiss from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri Feb 12 01:27:45 1999 (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP Fri, 12 Feb 1999 07:27:13 +0000 Subject: Re: to restore or not to restore; now: greenheart Yes...some British company (I think Partridge) still makes greenheart rods.There is a store in Carmel, California that sells new greenheart fly rods. Another popular wood of days gone by was lancewood. George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: was: to restore or not to restore; now: greenheart I've heard of greenheart. There's a wonderful poem in John Engels' bookBig Waters (everybody who loves trout fishing should own and read thisbook) about an old greenheart rod he had. I understand greenheart is akind of wood - does anybopdy build with it any more? What are itsproperties compared to cane? How can it be obtained? Do cane taperswork for it (probably not)? from sniderja@email.uc.edu Fri Feb 12 06:24:39 1999 Subject: "engraving" pens Kevin, I simply use a Rapidiograph 0.35 pen with India ink for lightcolored rods and with white ink for heavily flamed rods. With the former,the varnish I use does not smear the ink at all. With the latter, I usuallycover the white ink with a thin layer of varnish (varthane or some such)applied with a small darning needle, allow to dry, then do the usual finishon the rod. Hope this is of some value.J. Snider. from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Fri Feb 12 08:04:09 1999 Subject: Frank Stetzer's Archive Search Engine Frank,I have not been able to reach the URL that I copied down to get to thesearch engine that you so kindly developed for the archives. Could youplease post the address again?TIADick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net from destinycon@mindspring.com Fri Feb 12 08:56:58 1999 Subject: Re: phone number for Hoagy Carmichael At 09:08 PM 2/11/99 -0700, channer wrote: Guys;Does anyone happen to know Hoagy's phone number? john I don't know how current these numbers are, I haven't called in acoupleyears. I'd try the up-state number first.Salem, NY 914/277-8611NYC (office) 212/764-1850Regards,Gary H. from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Feb 12 10:00:38 1999 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: to restore or not/NOT E71D9CB780E19369431C545A" --------------E71D9CB780E19369431C545A Bill,If the rod is, say, your rod and you are happy with its performance butwould like it tidied up, then that is a worthwhile project.There is a lot of junk out there that is being restored to 'mintcondition' and sold to unsuspecting fishermen who have the idea thatbecause it is split bamboo it must be valuable.Ask any dealer and they will tell you that quality used cane rods arebecoming very scarce and it is becoming difficult for those that have areputation to supply good rods to their customersI am not interested in the perceived value of a restored cane rodcompared to a scruffy original. I believe that cane rods, if storedbadly for a very short time will forever be useless, no matter how ithas been refinished. I would guess that most restored rods do notperform as when it was new.Terry Ackland WILLIAM A HARMS wrote: Surely, Terry. If the rod or gun (or whatever) can no longerreasonably be used as it was once intended, there is little point infooling with it. At that point, the item has only two potentialvalues -- either sentimental/historical value or possibly thecollectors' value. In the first case one might still restore the itemif he just wants to admire its former glory, while in the second casehe had better just leave the thing alone and find somebody to write acheck. My point is that if you have a rod or a gun you love and it seemscapable of being restored to the use for which it was once intended,DO IT, but do it well! Then USE it , and enjoy! And never mind thecollector who claims you will have "ruined its value." What doesTHIS guy know about value? If you're concerned about maximizing yourinvestments, learn about the stock market. That's a game that willproduce "value," if money is your objective. (And, you'll realizestill greater profits with which to buy still MORE good rods and gunsto restore.) See? Life can be good. Screw the collectors and their notions aboutwhat your rod is worth! Cheers, Bill ----------From: Terence Ackland Cc: Grhghlndr@aol.com; pdcorlis@nidc.edu;owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: to restore or not/NOTDate: Thursday, February 11, 1999 4:49 PM Bill,if a cane fishing rod has been badly stored for a period of time itwill never perform as when it was new, no matter how much you 'tart itup'. It could end up a costly mistake that will only be realized afterrestoration.There is not too much in the way of 'good rods' left out there, youonly have to look in dealers catalogues.Terry Ackland WILLIAM A HARMS wrote: Bret,Well, yes, a poorly restored gun or rod (or anything else) would bedepreciated in value. That goes without saying. But that's not quitewhat were talking about here. The problem I am having with many gunsand rods that have become "collectors items" is their artificiallyinflated value -- value way, way beyond what their actual qualitycould justify. Market value that is "there" only if the piece isleft unaltered from its original condition. Better, still, if the gunis unfired or the rod is unfished. And, again, it is chiefly theAmerican collectors that have insisted upon this.A piece of unaltered and unusable junk hanging over your fireplacemantle is likely to have "market value" far greater than if that samepiece were well-restored and put back into honorable service again -- ostensibly, the only purpose for which the artifact was built in thefirst place. THIS IS LUNACY!!! And I won't stand for it. I restoreeverything (that deserves it) back to its original, pristine condition(or better), and TO HELL with the collectors' stupid notions of"value."Good guns and good rods are meant to be used, and I wouldn't have itany other way. Now, if you are a museum curator, then that's adifferent set of considerations altogether. But collectors are oftenneither users of their collections, nor curators. They are investorswho are playing, not with the gunsor rods, but with the perceived dollar value of the stuff theyaccumulate, and with the expectation that the market will rise. Andit is only in THAT sense that the artifacts are seen as having"value." This is appropriate for stocks and bonds, but why shouldthose of us who would like to use and appreciate the beauty of ourrods and guns be coerced by these collectors' sense of "value?"Bottom line: If you have a rod or a gun that you love, and would liketo restore it to its original beautiful condition so you can enjoy itslife once again, for God's sake, DO IT!Cheers, Bill ---------- --------------E71D9CB780E19369431C545A Bill,If the rod is, say, your rod and you are happy with its performancebut would like it tidied up, then that is a worthwhile project.There is a lot of junk out there that is being restored to 'mintcondition'and sold to unsuspecting fishermen who have the idea that because it issplit bamboo it must be valuable.Ask any dealer and they will tell you that quality used cane rods arebecoming very scarce and it is becoming difficult for those that have areputation to supply good rods to their customers rod compared to a scruffy original. I believe that cane rods, if storedbadly for a very short time will forever be useless, no matter how it hasbeen refinished. I would guess that most restored rods do not perform aswhen it was new.Terry Ackland WILLIAM A HARMS wrote:Surely, reasonablybe used as it was once intended, there is little point in fooling with the first case one might still restore the item if he just wantsto admire its former glory, while in the second case he had better justleave the thing alone and find somebody to write acheck. Mypoint is that if you have a rod or a gun you love and it seems capableof being restored to the use for which it was once intended, DO IT, but maximizing realize still greater profits with which to buy still MORE good rods andguns to restore.) your rod is worth! Cheers,Bill ----------From:Terence Ackland <hexagon@odyssee.net> HARMS1@prodigy.netCc:Grhghlndr@aol.com;pdcorlis@nidc.edu;owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject:Re: to restore or not/NOTDate:Thursday, February 11, 1999 4:49 PM Bill,ifa cane fishing rod has been badly stored for a period of time it will neverperform as when it was new, no matter how much you 'tart it up'. It couldend up a costly mistake that will only be realized afterrestoration.Thereis not too much in the way of 'good rods' left out there, you only haveto look in dealers catalogues.TerryAckland WILLIAMA HARMS wrote: Bret,Well,yes, a poorly restored gun or rod (or anything else) would be depreciated and inflated value -- value way, way beyond what their actual quality the American collectors that have insisted upon this.Apiece of unaltered and unusable junk hanging over your fireplace mantle were well-restored and put back into honorable service again --ostensibly,the only purpose for which the artifact was built in the first everything(that deserves it) back to its original, pristine condition (or better),and TO HELL with the collectors' stupid notions of "value."Good are investors who are playing, not with the gunsorrods, but with the perceived dollar value of the stuff they accumulate, This is appropriate for stocks and bonds, but why should those of us whowould like to use and appreciate the beauty of our rods and guns becoerced Bottom restore it to its original beautiful condition so you can enjoy its lifeonce again, for God's sake, DO IT!Cheers,Bill ---------- --------------E71D9CB780E19369431C545A-- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Feb 12 10:51:04 1999 Sat, 13 Feb 1999 00:47:30 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: to restore or not/NOT I guess if it's your rod you can do as you please but if it's not to befished what's the point?When ever I see this thread or similar I always cast back in my memory towhen I was a kid working for a gunsmith who had a punter bring in an olddamascus barreled shotgun, it may have been an old Greener. The gunsmithtold the guy to leave it alone and let it age gracefuly particually as itwasn't abused and still had a good finish with honest use showingas well as the fear someone may try using it with a 3" mag shell but theguy wanted it "done up".The job was done profesionaly but I thought it looked like my grandad haddressed up for Friday night's disco. Especially the new gold sight bead. Tony On Fri, 12 Feb 1999, Terence Ackland wrote: Bill,If the rod is, say, your rod and you are happy with its performance butwould like it tidied up, then that is a worthwhile project.There is a lot of junk out there that is being restored to 'mintcondition' and sold to unsuspecting fishermen who have the idea thatbecause it is split bamboo it must be valuable.Ask any dealer and they will tell you that quality used cane rods arebecoming very scarce and it is becoming difficult for those that have areputation to supply good rods to their customersI am not interested in the perceived value of a restored cane rodcompared to a scruffy original. I believe that cane rods, if storedbadly for a very short time will forever be useless, no matter how ithas been refinished. I would guess that most restored rods do notperform as when it was new.Terry Ackland Surely, Terry. If the rod or gun (or whatever) can no longerreasonably be used as it was once intended, there is little point infooling with it. At that point, the item has only two potentialvalues -- either sentimental/historical value or possibly thecollectors' value. In the first case one might still restore the itemif he just wants to admire its former glory, while in the second casehe had better just leave the thing alone and find somebody to write acheck. My point is that if you have a rod or a gun you love and it seemscapable of being restored to the use for which it was once intended,DO IT, but do it well! Then USE it , and enjoy! And never mind thecollector who claims you will have "ruined its value." What doesTHIS guy know about value? If you're concerned about maximizing yourinvestments, learn about the stock market. That's a game that willproduce "value," if money is your objective. (And, you'll realizestill greater profits with which to buy still MORE good rods and gunsto restore.) See? Life can be good. Screw the collectors and their notions aboutwhat your rod is worth! Cheers, Bill ----------From: Terence Ackland Cc: Grhghlndr@aol.com; pdcorlis@nidc.edu;owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: to restore or not/NOTDate: Thursday, February 11, 1999 4:49 PM Bill,if a cane fishing rod has been badly stored for a period of time itwill never perform as when it was new, no matter how much you 'tartitup'. It could end up a costly mistake that will only be realized afterrestoration.There is not too much in the way of 'good rods' left out there, youonly have to look in dealers catalogues.Terry Ackland WILLIAM A HARMS wrote: Bret,Well, yes, a poorly restored gun or rod (or anything else) would bedepreciated in value. That goes without saying. But that's not quitewhat were talking about here. The problem I am having with many gunsand rods that have become "collectors items" is their artificiallyinflated value -- value way, way beyond what their actual qualitycould justify. Market value that is "there" only if the piece isleft unaltered from its original condition. Better, still, if the gunis unfired or the rod is unfished. And, again, it is chiefly theAmerican collectors that have insisted upon this.A piece of unaltered and unusable junk hanging over your fireplacemantle is likely to have "market value" far greater than if that samepiece were well-restored and put back into honorable service again -- ostensibly, the only purpose for which the artifact was built in thefirst place. THIS IS LUNACY!!! And I won't stand for it. I restoreeverything (that deserves it) back to its original, pristine condition(or better), and TO HELL with the collectors' stupid notions of"value."Good guns and good rods are meant to be used, and I wouldn't have itany other way. Now, if you are a museum curator, then that's adifferent set of considerations altogether. But collectors are oftenneither users of their collections, nor curators. They are investorswho are playing, not with the gunsor rods, but with the perceived dollar value of the stuff theyaccumulate, and with the expectation that the market will rise. Andit is only in THAT sense that the artifacts are seen as having"value." This is appropriate for stocks and bonds, but why shouldthose of us who would like to use and appreciate the beauty of ourrods and guns be coerced by these collectors' sense of "value?"Bottom line: If you have a rod or a gun that you love, and would liketo restore it to its original beautiful condition so you can enjoy itslife once again, for God's sake, DO IT!Cheers, Bill ---------- /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb? A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from TChafor@wavetech.com Fri Feb 12 12:01:14 1999 (IMA Internet Exchange 2.1 Enterprise) id 00079646; Fri, 12 Feb 9911:37:48 -0600 , Subject: Re[2]: to restore or not/NOT --IMA.Boundary.860148819 = = Going back to the original rod in question = = some more info= It was purchased last week from a rod dealer for only =A325. = = The handle is in good condition with little sign of wearThe blank is in good condition with no signs of fracture etc.The ferrules are in excellent condition and i believe to be original= = The guides are for the most part good with some superficial = corrosion/tarnishing= However,The wraps are deterioratingThe varnish is very flaky and therefore causing the wraps to move= and over time they would only get worse.= I think that it could be restored using only the original fittings. = = Thanks for all the advise= = Tim= = ______________________________ Reply Separator__________________________=_______Subject: Re: to restore or not/NOTAuthor: HARMS1@prodigy.net at Internet = = = Surely, Terry. If the rod or gun (or whatever) can no longer reasonably== be used as it was once intended, there is little point in fooling with it==2E = At that point, the item has only two potential values -- either = first case one might still restore the item if he just wants to admire it=s = former glory, while in the second case he had better just leave the thing== alone and find somebody to write a check.= My point is that if you have a rod or a gun you love and it seems capable== of being restored to the use for which it was once intended, DO IT, but d=o = it well! Then USE it , and enjoy! And never mind the collector who = claims you will have "ruined its value." What does THIS guy know about== value? If you're concerned about maximizing your investments, learnabou=t = the stock market. That's a game that will produce "value," if money is = your objective. (And, you'll realize still greater profits with which to== buy still MORE good rods and guns to restore.) = = See? Life can be good. Screw the collectors and their notions about wha=t = your rod is worth!= Cheers, Bill= = ---------- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.ed=u; = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: to restore or not/NOT = Bill, = if a cane fishing rod has been badly stored for a period of time it will = never perform as when it was new, no matter how much you 'tart it up'. It== could end up a costly mistake that will only be realized after restoratio=n.= There is not too much in the way of 'good rods' left out there, you only = have to look in dealers catalogues. = Terry Ackland = = WILLIAM A HARMS wrote: = Bret, = Well, yes, a poorly restored gun or rod (or anything else) would be = depreciated in value. That goes without saying. But that's not quite wh=at = were talking about here. The problem I am having with many guns androds== that have become "collectors items" is their artificially inflated valu=e = -- value way, way beyond what their actual quality could justify. Market== value that is "there" only if the piece is left unaltered from its = original condition. Better, still, if the gun is unfired or the rod is = unfished. And, again, it is chiefly the American collectors that have = insisted upon this. = A piece of unaltered and unusable junk hanging over your fireplace mantle== is likely to have "market value" far greater than if that same piece wer=e = well-restored and put back into honorable service again -- ostensibly, th=e = only purpose for which the artifact was built in the first place. THIS =IS = LUNACY!!! And I won't stand for it. I restore everything (that deserves== it) back to its original, pristine condition (or better), and TO HELL wit=h = the collectors' stupid notions of "value." = Good guns and good rods are meant to be used, and I wouldn't have it any== other way. Now, if you are a museum curator, then that's a different se=t = of considerations altogether. But collectors are often neither users of== their collections, nor curators. They are investors who are playing, not== with the guns = or rods, but with the perceived dollar value of the stuff they accumulate=, = and with the expectation that the market will rise. And it is only in T=HAT = sense that the artifacts are seen as having "value." This is appropriate== d = appreciate the beauty of our rods and guns be coerced by these collectors=' = sense of "value?" = Bottom line: If you have a rod or a gun that you love, and would like to== restore it to its original beautiful condition so you can enjoy its life = once again, for God's sake, DO IT! = Cheers, Bill = = ---------- = --IMA.Boundary.860148819 whatever) can no longer reasonably be used as it was once intended, thereis potential values -- either sentimental/historical value or possibly the theitem if he just wants to admire its former glory, while in the second casehehad better just leave the thing alone and find somebody to write acheck.My point is that if you have a rod or a gun you love and itseemscapable of being restored to the use for which it was once intended, DO IT,but collector who claims you will have "ruined its value." concernedabout maximizing your investments, learn about thhe stock market. objective. MORE worth!Cheers, Bill----------From: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: to restore or not/NOTDate:Thursday,February 11, 1999 4:49 PMBill,ifa cane fishing rod has been badly stored for a period of time it will neverperform as when it was new, no matter how much you 'tart it up'. It couldend upa costly mistake that will only be realized after restoration. There isnottoo much in the way of 'good rods' left out there, you only have to look indealers catalogues. Terry Ackland WILLIAM A HARMS wrote: Bret, Well, yes, apoorly restored gun or rod (or anything else) would be depreciated in value. talking have inflatedvalue -- value way, way beyond what their actual quality couldjustify. left collectors that have insisted upon this. Apiece of unaltered and unusable junk hanging over your fireplace mantle is samepiece were well-restored and put back into honorable service again -- ostensibly, the only purpose forr which the artifact was built in the first restore everything (that deserves it) back to its original, pristinecondition(or better), and TO HELL with the collectors' stupid notions of"value." Good guns andgood rods of users of notwith the guns or rods, but with theperceived dollar value of the stuff they accumulate, and with theexpectation the forstocks and bonds, but why should those of us who would like to use and appreciate the beauty of our rods and guns be coerced by these collectors'senseof "value?" Bottom line: you have a rod or a gun that you love, and would like to restore it to itsoriginal beautiful condition so you can enjoy its life once again, for God'ssake, DO IT! Cheers, Bill---------- --IMA.Boundary.860148819 headers" with SMTP(IMA Internet Exchange 2.1 Enterprise) id 00079395; Fri, 12 Feb 9907:37:01-0600 ext.prodigy.net VAA128346;Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:04:53 -0500 , Subject: Re: to restore or not/NOT boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BE5602.09A23020" --IMA.Boundary.860148819-- from HARMS1@prodigy.net Fri Feb 12 15:12:59 1999 ext.prodigy.net QAA95070;Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:12:50 -0500 , Subject: Re: to restore or not/NOT =_NextPart_000_01BE56A2.64AE7C80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE56A2.64AE7C80 Right again, Terry. The simple truth is that at no time in the history ofrodmaking have rods been built as well as they are today -- and, with alldue immodesty, by the likes of almost ANY OF US. So, really, why screwaround at all with old, used rods if really good casting, combined withsheer aesthetic beauty is what one has in mind. And you are also surely correct that there are precious few really good oldrods "out there." Many old rods were truly wonderful in their day, butvery likely, they are no longer. Or, again, even if they are, they stillwouldn't compare to duplicating that taper and building its replicaYOURSELF. (Not so on any of the above counts, however, with guns. There are stillmany, many wonderful old guns that want only some good restorationwork.) Cheers, Bill---------- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: to restore or not/NOT Bill, If the rod is, say, your rod and you are happy with its performance butwould like it tidied up, then that is a worthwhile project. There is a lot of junk out there that is being restored to 'mint condition'and sold to unsuspecting fishermen who have the idea that because it issplit bamboo it must be valuable. Ask any dealer and they will tell you that quality used cane rods arebecoming very scarce and it is becoming difficult for those that have areputation to supply good rods to their customers I am not interested in the perceived value of a restored cane rodcomparedto a scruffy original. I believe that cane rods, if stored badly for a veryshort time will forever be useless, no matter how it has been refinished. Iwould guess that most restored rods do not perform as when it was new. Terry Ackland WILLIAM A HARMS wrote: Surely, Terry. If the rod or gun (or whatever) can no longer reasonablybe used as it was once intended, there is little point in fooling with it. At that point, the item has only two potential values -- either first case one might still restore the item if he just wants to admire itsformer glory, while in the second case he had better just leave the thingalone and find somebody to write a check. My point is that if you have a rod or a gun you love and it seems capableof being restored to the use for which it was once intended, DO IT, but doit well! Then USE it , and enjoy! And never mind the collector whoclaims you will have "ruined its value." What does THIS guy know aboutvalue? If you're concerned about maximizing your investments, learnaboutthe stock market. That's a game that will produce "value," if money isyour objective. (And, you'll realize still greater profits with which tobuy still MORE good rods and guns to restore.) See? Life can be good. Screw the collectors and their notions about whatyour rod is worth! Cheers, Bill ---------- simple truth is that at no time in the history of rodmaking have =rods been built as well as they are today -- and, with all due = =around at all with old, used rods if really good casting, combined with =sheer aesthetic beauty is what one has in mind.And you are also =surely correct that there are precious few really good old rods = = they are, they still wouldn't compare to duplicating that taper and =building its replica YOURSELF.(Not so on any of the above = old guns that want only some good restoration work.)Cheers, =Bill---------- From: Terence Ackland = pdcorlis@nidc.edu; owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: to restore or not/NOTDate: =Friday, February 12, 1999 8:02 AMBill, If the rod is, say, your rod and you are =happy with its performance but would like it tidied up, then that is a =worthwhile project. There is a lot of junk out there that is being =restored to 'mint condition' and sold to unsuspecting fishermen who have =the idea that because it is split bamboo it must be valuable. Ask =any dealer and they will tell you that quality used cane rods are =becoming very scarce and it is becoming difficult for those that have a =reputation to supply good rods to their customers I am not = to a scruffy original. I believe that cane rods, if stored badly for a =very short time will forever be useless, no matter how it has been =refinished. I would guess that most restored rods do not perform as when=it was new. Terry Ackland WILLIAM A HARMS wrote: whatever) can no longer reasonably be used as it was once intended, = has only two potential values -- either sentimental/historical value or = still restore the item if he just wants to admire its former =glory, while in the second case he had better just leave the thing alone =and find somebody to write a check. My point is that if you have a rod or a gun you love and it =seems capable of being restored to the use for which it was once = = realize still greater profits with which to buy still MORE good rods and =guns to restore.) See? Life can= rod is worth! Cheers, =Bill ----------=From: Terence Ackland<hexagon@odyssee.net ------=_NextPart_000_01BE56A2.64AE7C80-- from HARMS1@prodigy.net Fri Feb 12 15:21:53 1999 ext.prodigy.net QAA191932;Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:19:57 -0500 "Terence Ackland" , Subject: Re: to restore or not/NOT =_NextPart_000_01BE56A3.67D62CE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE56A3.67D62CE0 Yeah, Tony, there will always be a lot of drips out there who don't knowwhat they're doing -- or what item deserves what kind of work. In all mycomments, I have been assuming that one knows what one is about, andthathe is also capable of good work. I guess I just don't have much to say to(or about) the others. They're "on their own." Cheers, Bill----------From: Tony Young Cc: HARMS1@prodigy.net; Grhghlndr@aol.com; pdcorlis@nidc.edu;owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: to restore or not/NOTDate: Friday, February 12, 1999 8:47 AM I guess if it's your rod you can do as you please but if it's not to befished what's the point?When ever I see this thread or similar I always cast back in my memorytowhen I was a kid working for a gunsmith who had a punter bring in an olddamascus barreled shotgun, it may have been an old Greener. Thegunsmithtold the guy to leave it alone and let it age gracefuly particually as itwasn't abused and still had a good finish with honest use showingas well as the fear someone may try using it with a 3" mag shell but theguy wanted it "done up".The job was done profesionaly but I thought it looked like my grandadhaddressed up for Friday night's disco. Especially the new gold sight bead. Tony On Fri, 12 Feb 1999, Terence Ackland wrote: Bill,If the rod is, say, your rod and you are happy with its performance butwould like it tidied up, then that is a worthwhile project.There is a lot of junk out there that is being restored to 'mintcondition' and sold to unsuspecting fishermen who have the idea thatbecause it is split bamboo it must be valuable.Ask any dealer and they will tell you that quality used cane rods arebecoming very scarce and it is becoming difficult for those that have areputation to supply good rods to their customersI am not interested in the perceived value of a restored cane rodcompared to a scruffy original. I believe that cane rods, if storedbadly for a very short time will forever be useless, no matter how ithas been refinished. I would guess that most restored rods do notperform as when it was new.Terry Ackland Surely, Terry. If the rod or gun (or whatever) can no longerreasonably be used as it was once intended, there is little point infooling with it. At that point, the item has only two potential> > >values -- either sentimental/historical value or possibly thecollectors' value. In the first case one might still restore theitemif he just wants to admire its former glory, while in the second casehe had better just leave the thing alone and find somebody to write acheck. My point is that if you have a rod or a gun you love and it seemscapable of being restored to the use for which it was once intended,DO IT, but do it well! Then USE it , and enjoy! And never mind thecollector who claims you will have "ruined its value." What doesTHIS guy know about value? If you're concerned about maximizingyourinvestments, learn about the stock market. That's a game that willproduce "value," if money is your objective. (And, you'll realizestill greater profits with which to buy still MORE good rods and gunsto restore.) See? Life can be good. Screw the collectors and their notions aboutwhat your rod is worth! Cheers, Bill ----------From: Terence Ackland Cc: Grhghlndr@aol.com; pdcorlis@nidc.edu;owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: to restore or not/NOTDate: Thursday, February 11, 1999 4:49 PM Bill,if a cane fishing rod has been badly stored for a period of time itwill never perform as when it was new, no matter how much you 'tartitup'. It could end up a costly mistake that will only be realizedafterrestoration.There is not too much in the way of 'good rods' left out there, youonly have to look in dealers catalogues.Terry Ackland WILLIAM A HARMS wrote: Bret,Well, yes, a poorly restored gun or rod (or anything else) would bedepreciated in value. That goes without saying. But that's notquitewhat were talking about here. The problem I am having with manygunsand rods that have become "collectors items" is their artificiallyinflated value -- value way, way beyond what their actual qualitycould justify. Market value that is "there" only if the piece isleft unaltered from its original condition. Better, still, if thegunis unfired or the rod is unfished. And, again, it is chiefly theAmerican collectors that have insisted upon this.A piece of unaltered and unusable junk hanging over your fireplacemantle is likely to have "market value" far greater than if thatsamepiece were well-restored and put back into honorable service again - -ostensibly, the only purpose for which the artifact was built in thefirst place. THIS IS LUNACY!!! And I won't stand for it. Irestoreeverything (that deserves it) back to its original, pristinecondition(or better), and TO HELL with the collectors' stupid notions of"value."Good guns and good rods are meant to be used, and I wouldn't have itany other way. Now, if you are a museum curator, then that's adifferent set of considerations altogether. But collectors areoftenneither users of their collections, nor curators. They are investorswho are playing, not with the gunsor rods, but with the perceived dollar value of the stuff theyaccumulate, and with the expectation that the market will rise. Andit is only in THAT sense that the artifacts are seen as having"value." This is appropriate for stocks and bonds, but why shouldthose of us who would like to use and appreciate the beauty of ourrods and guns be coerced by these collectors' sense of "value?"Bottom line: If you have a rod or a gun that you love, and wouldliketo restore it to its original beautiful condition so you can enjoyitslife once again, for God's sake, DO IT!Cheers, Bill ---------- /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb? A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/------=_NextPart_000_01BE56A3.67D62CE0 Yeah, Tony, there willalways =be a lot of drips out there who don't know what they're doing -- or what = =Grhghlndr@aol.com; pdcorlis@nidc.edu; = guess if it's your rod you can do as you please but if it's not to = = told the guy to leave it alone and let it age gracefuly particually as = condition' and sold to unsuspecting fishermen who have the idea = badly for a very short time will forever be useless, no matter how = who claims you will have "ruined its value." = value? = = There is not too much in the way of 'good rods' left out there, = Well, yes, a poorly restored gun or rod (or anything else) would = = = accumulate, and with the expectation that the market will rise. = restore it to its original beautiful condition so you can enjoy = /***********************************************************************/= = /***********************************************************************/= ------=_NextPart_000_01BE56A3.67D62CE0-- from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Feb 12 15:36:40 1999 owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: to restore or not/NOT Tim,if you have purchased a 'fixer upper' from a dealer and are prepared to putthe workin yourself you will have a lot of fun and possibly a fishable rod at theend ofit.You did not pay very much for the rod and cannot expect it to be a qualityrod whenfinished. If on the other hand you had purchased that same rod but it hadbeen'renovated' for,say, $500 there would have been a problem.The dealer with his reputation to consider obviously thought the rod notworth theprice of renovating and let it go cheap.There are 'restorers' around that pick up all sorts of old rods and passthem off aquality rods after a little work.Antique dealers seem to have the idea that any old cane rod is worth afortune, justbecause it is cane. I once saw one of those cheap Japanese combinationrods thatcame in a wooden box being sold for $300 in an antique shop.I think, in the market today there is more chances of getting screwed thanbeingable to pick up a bargain especially if you purchase from an Antiques fairratherthan from a dealer.Realistically, it would be better to buy a new rod from a contemporarymaker if youare looking for a cane rod you will enjoy fishing with.T.Ackland Tim Chafor wrote: Going back to the original rod in question some more info It was purchased last week from a rod dealer for only £25. The handle is in good condition with little sign of wearThe blank is in good condition with no signs of fracture etc.The ferrules are in excellent condition and i believe to be original The guides are for the most part good with some superficialcorrosion/tarnishing However,The wraps are deterioratingThe varnish is very flaky and therefore causing the wraps to move and over time they would only get worse. I think that it could be restored using only the original fittings. Thanks for all the advise Tim ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: to restore or not/NOTAuthor: HARMS1@prodigy.net at InternetDate: 11/02/99 21:03 Surely, Terry. If the rod or gun (or whatever) can no longer reasonablybe used as it was once intended, there is little point in fooling with it.At that point, the item has only two potential values -- eithersentimental/historical value or possibly the collectors' value. In thefirst case one might still restore the item if he just wants to admire itsformer glory, while in the second case he had better just leave the thingalone and find somebody to write a check. My point is that if you have a rod or a gun you love and it seems capableof being restored to the use for which it was once intended, DO IT, but doit well! Then USE it , and enjoy! And never mind the collector whoclaims you will have "ruined its value." What does THIS guy know aboutvalue? If you're concerned about maximizing your investments, learnaboutthe stock market. That's a game that will produce "value," if money isyour objective. (And, you'll realize still greater profits with which tobuy still MORE good rods and guns to restore.) See? Life can be good. Screw the collectors and their notions aboutwhatyour rod is worth! Cheers, Bill ----------From: Terence Ackland Cc: Grhghlndr@aol.com; pdcorlis@nidc.edu; owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: to restore or not/NOTDate: Thursday, February 11, 1999 4:49 PM Bill,if a cane fishing rod has been badly stored for a period of time it willnever perform as when it was new, no matter how much you 'tart it up'.Itcould end up a costly mistake that will only be realized afterrestoration. There is not too much in the way of 'good rods' left out there, you onlyhave to look in dealers catalogues.Terry Ackland WILLIAM A HARMS wrote:Bret,Well, yes, a poorly restored gun or rod (or anything else) would bedepreciated in value. That goes without saying. But that's not quitewhatwere talking about here. The problem I am having with many guns androdsthat have become "collectors items" is their artificially inflated value-- value way, way beyond what their actual quality could justify. Marketvalue that is "there" only if the piece is left unaltered from itsoriginal condition. Better, still, if the gun is unfired or the rod isunfished. And, again, it is chiefly the American collectors that haveinsisted upon this.A piece of unaltered and unusable junk hanging over your fireplacemantleis likely to have "market value" far greater than if that same piece werewell-restored and put back into honorable service again -- ostensibly,theonly purpose for which the artifact was built in the first place. THIS ISLUNACY!!! And I won't stand for it. I restore everything (that deservesit) back to its original, pristine condition (or better), and TO HELL withthe collectors' stupid notions of "value."Good guns and good rods are meant to be used, and I wouldn't have it anyother way. Now, if you are a museum curator, then that's a different setof considerations altogether. But collectors are often neither users oftheir collections, nor curators. They are investors who are playing, notwith the gunsor rods, but with the perceived dollar value of the stuff they accumulate,and with the expectation that the market will rise. And it is only inTHATsense that the artifacts are seen as having "value." This is appropriate andappreciate the beauty of our rods and guns be coerced by thesecollectors'sense of "value?"Bottom line: If you have a rod or a gun that you love, and would like torestore it to its original beautiful condition so you can enjoy its lifeonce again, for God's sake, DO IT!Cheers, Bill ---------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ whatever) can no longer reasonably be used as it was once intended,there is potential values -- either sentimental/historical value or possibly the theitem if he just wants to admire its former glory, while in the secondcase hehad better just leave the thing alone and find somebody to write acheck.My point is that if you have a rod or a gun you love and itseemscapable of being restored to the use for which it was once intended, DOIT, but thecollector who claims you will have "ruined its value." you're concernedabout maximizing your investments, learn about thhe stock market. objective. MORE good. worth!Cheers, Bill----------From: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu color="#008080">Subject: Re: to restore or not/NOTDate:Thursday,February 11, 1999 4:49 PMBill, >ifa cane fishing rod has been badly stored for a period of time it willneverperform as when it was new, no matter how much you 'tart it up'. Itcould end upa costly mistake that will only be realized after restoration. Thereis nottoo much in the way of 'good rods' left out there, you only have to look indealers catalogues. Terry Ackland WILLIAM A HARMS wrote: Bret, Well, yes,apoorly restored gun or rod (or anything else) would be depreciated invalue. talking have inflatedvalue -- value way, way beyond what their actual quality couldjustify. left Americancollectors that have insisted upon this. Apiece of unaltered and unusable junk hanging over your fireplace mantleis samepiece were well-restored and put back into honorable service again -- ostensibly, the only purpose forr which the artifact was built in thefirst restore everything (that deserves it) back to its original, pristinecondition(or better), and TO HELL with the collectors' stupid notions of"value." Good guns andgood rods set of users of playing, notwith the guns or rods, but with theperceived dollar value of the stuff they accumulate, and with theexpectation the appropriate forstocks and bonds, but why should those of us who would like to use andappreciate the beauty of our rods and guns be coerced by thesecollectors' senseof "value?" Bottom line: you have a rod or a gun that you love, and would like to restore it to itsoriginal beautiful condition so you can enjoy its life once again, forGod'ssake, DO IT! Cheers, Bill---------- color="#000000"> ont> ------------------------------------------------------------------------Received: from wugate.wustl.edu (128.252.120.1) by mlhst.wavetech.comwith SMTP(IMA Internet Exchange 2.1 Enterprise) id 00079395; Fri, 12 Feb 9907:37:01-0600 Received: from virtualmaster3-int.prodigy.net (virtualmaster3-ext.prodigy.net VAA128346;Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:04:53 -0500Message-Id: Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:03:56 -0800 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: "WILLIAM A HARMS" Cc: , ,, Subject: Re: to restore or not/NOTMIME-Version: 1.0Content-Type: multipart/alternative;boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE5602.09A23020"Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitX- MSMail-Priority: NormalX-Priority: 3X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN from BThoman@neonsoft.com Fri Feb 12 15:53:35 1999 Subject: First time using Nyatex I've built most of my rods using G2 epoxy and I noticed some observationsbetween the two that I thought I'd pass along. Maybe those who've useddifferent glues can tell their likes and dislikes of particular glues. The first thing I noticed was the consistency of the glue when mixed. G2ismuch thicker and the strips stay together when formed in the hex withoutanypressure. The pieces of tape are a pain to get off but there's no chance ofa strip flipping when binding. As a matter of fact, the instructions forglue say not to use any clamping, although I've never tried it. I bound allmy rods by hand when using the G2 and it was extremely easy. The gluedblanks are completely dry (not tacky) after one day and the binding stringcomes off very easily even after being heat treated. The manufacturer isinCanada and they said to heat treat at 120 degrees F, so it's obvious it willnot take the heat that Nyatex will. The glue is more difficult to sand orfile off of the blank than Nyatex and is definitely more difficult to heatstraighten. The Nyatex is more liquid and therefore more difficult to bind. I didn'tbind by hand but used my newly made Garrison style binder. The tape wasmuch easier to remove. I found the Nyatex to be more difficult tostraighten when wet. I removed the binding string the next day (the gluewas still very tacky) rebound it by hand and heat treated at 200 degrees F sanded off the glue. This was a breeze as was heat straightening thesections. I'd have to say that the G2 is much easier to use when gluing and bindingbut much more difficult to deal with after the glue dries. Nyatex makesafter gluing a cinch. I have some Shell Epon I plan on using and it's myunderstanding that it's properties are very comparable to the G2. I thinkit takes heat a bit better but still less than Nyatex, although I'm noexpert. Brian ThomanThe Chattahoochee River Rod CompanyParker, Coloradohttp://www.bambooflyrods.com(303) 805-5733 from rclarke@eou.edu Fri Feb 12 15:57:25 1999 13:56:38 -0800 Tim Chafor "Grhghlndr@aol.com","pdcorlis@nidc.edu" ,"owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" ,"rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: RE: to restore or not/NOT Chris McDowell and I witnessed an old Hardy in an antique shop go from$1200 to $600 to $300in a few days. Even at that it was more than I wanted to spend. Value iswhatever they canget for it, I guess. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu -----Original Message----- owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: to restore or not/NOT Tim,if you have purchased a 'fixer upper' from a dealer and are prepared to putthe workin yourself you will have a lot of fun and possibly a fishable rod at theend ofit.You did not pay very much for the rod and cannot expect it to be a qualityrod whenfinished. If on the other hand you had purchased that same rod but it hadbeen'renovated' for,say, $500 there would have been a problem.The dealer with his reputation to consider obviously thought the rod notworth theprice of renovating and let it go cheap.There are 'restorers' around that pick up all sorts of old rods and passthem off aquality rods after a little work.Antique dealers seem to have the idea that any old cane rod is worth afortune, justbecause it is cane. I once saw one of those cheap Japanese combinationrods thatcame in a wooden box being sold for $300 in an antique shop.I think, in the market today there is more chances of getting screwed thanbeingable to pick up a bargain especially if you purchase from an Antiques fairratherthan from a dealer.Realistically, it would be better to buy a new rod from a contemporarymaker if youare looking for a cane rod you will enjoy fishing with.T.Ackland Tim Chafor wrote: Going back to the original rod in question some more info It was purchased last week from a rod dealer for only £25. The handle is in good condition with little sign of wearThe blank is in good condition with no signs of fracture etc.The ferrules are in excellent condition and i believe to be original The guides are for the most part good with some superficialcorrosion/tarnishing However,The wraps are deterioratingThe varnish is very flaky and therefore causing the wraps to move and over time they would only get worse. I think that it could be restored using only the original fittings. Thanks for all the advise Tim ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: to restore or not/NOTAuthor: HARMS1@prodigy.net at InternetDate: 11/02/99 21:03 Surely, Terry. If the rod or gun (or whatever) can no longer reasonablybe used as it was once intended, there is little point in fooling with it.At that point, the item has only two potential values -- eithersentimental/historical value or possibly the collectors' value. In thefirst case one might still restore the item if he just wants to admire itsformer glory, while in the second case he had better just leave the thingalone and find somebody to write a check. My point is that if you have a rod or a gun you love and it seems capableof being restored to the use for which it was once intended, DO IT, but doit well! Then USE it , and enjoy! And never mind the collector whoclaims you will have "ruined its value." What does THIS guy know aboutvalue? If you're concerned about maximizing your investments, learnaboutthe stock market. That's a game that will produce "value," if money isyour objective. (And, you'll realize still greater profits with which tobuy still MORE good rods and guns to restore.) See? Life can be good. Screw the collectors and their notions aboutwhatyour rod is worth! Cheers, Bill ----------From: Terence Ackland Cc: Grhghlndr@aol.com; pdcorlis@nidc.edu; owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: to restore or not/NOTDate: Thursday, February 11, 1999 4:49 PM Bill,if a cane fishing rod has been badly stored for a period of time it willnever perform as when it was new, no matter how much you 'tart it up'.Itcould end up a costly mistake that will only be realized afterrestoration. There is not too much in the way of 'good rods' left out there, you onlyhave to look in dealers catalogues.Terry Ackland WILLIAM A HARMS wrote:Bret,Well, yes, a poorly restored gun or rod (or anything else) would bedepreciated in value. That goes without saying. But that's not quitewhatwere talking about here. The problem I am having with many guns androdsthat have become "collectors items" is their artificially inflated value-- value way, way beyond what their actual quality could justify. Marketvalue that is "there" only if the piece is left unaltered from itsoriginal condition. Better, still, if the gun is unfired or the rod isunfished. And, again, it is chiefly the American collectors that haveinsisted upon this.A piece of unaltered and unusable junk hanging over your fireplacemantleis likely to have "market value" far greater than if that same piece werewell-restored and put back into honorable service again -- ostensibly,theonly purpose for which the artifact was built in the first place. THIS ISLUNACY!!! And I won't stand for it. I restore everything (that deservesit) back to its original, pristine condition (or better), and TO HELL withthe collectors' stupid notions of "value."Good guns and good rods are meant to be used, and I wouldn't have it anyother way. Now, if you are a museum curator, then that's a different setof considerations altogether. But collectors are often neither users oftheir collections, nor curators. They are investors who are playing, notwith the gunsor rods, but with the perceived dollar value of the stuff they accumulate,and with the expectation that the market will rise. And it is only inTHATsense that the artifacts are seen as having "value." This is appropriate andappreciate the beauty of our rods and guns be coerced by thesecollectors'sense of "value?"Bottom line: If you have a rod or a gun that you love, and would like torestore it to its original beautiful condition so you can enjoy its lifeonce again, for God's sake, DO IT!Cheers, Bill ---------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ whatever) can no longer reasonably be used as it was once intended,there is potential values -- either sentimental/historical value or possibly the theitem if he just wants to admire its former glory, while in the secondcase hehad better just leave the thing alone and find somebody to write acheck.My point is that if you have a rod or a gun you love and itseemscapable of being restored to the use for which it was once intended, DOIT, but thecollector who claims you will have "ruined its value." you're concernedabout maximizing your investments, learn about thhe stock market. objective. MORE good. worth!Cheers, Bill----------From: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu color="#008080">Subject: Re: to restore or not/NOTDate:Thursday,February 11, 1999 4:49 PMBill, >ifa cane fishing rod has been badly stored for a period of time it willneverperform as when it was new, no matter how much you 'tart it up'. Itcould end upa costly mistake that will only be realized after restoration. Thereis nottoo much in the way of 'good rods' left out there, you only have to look indealers catalogues. Terry Ackland WILLIAM A HARMS wrote: Bret, Well, yes,apoorly restored gun or rod (or anything else) would be depreciated invalue. talking have inflatedvalue -- value way, way beyond what their actual quality couldjustify. left Americancollectors that have insisted upon this. Apiece of unaltered and unusable junk hanging over your fireplace mantleis samepiece were well-restored and put back into honorable service again -- ostensibly, the only purpose forr which the artifact was built in thefirst restore everything (that deserves it) back to its original, pristinecondition(or better), and TO HELL with the collectors' stupid notions of"value." Good guns andgood rods set of users of playing, notwith the guns or rods, but with theperceived dollar value of the stuff they accumulate, and with theexpectation the appropriate forstocks and bonds, but why should those of us who would like to use andappreciate the beauty of our rods and guns be coerced by thesecollectors' senseof "value?" Bottom line: you have a rod or a gun that you love, and would like to restore it to itsoriginal beautiful condition so you can enjoy its life once again, forGod'ssake, DO IT! Cheers, Bill---------- color="#000000"> ont> ------------------------------------------------------------------------Received: from wugate.wustl.edu (128.252.120.1) by mlhst.wavetech.comwith SMTP(IMA Internet Exchange 2.1 Enterprise) id 00079395; Fri, 12 Feb 9907:37:01-0600 Received: from virtualmaster3-int.prodigy.net (virtualmaster3-ext.prodigy.net VAA128346;Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:04:53 -0500Message-Id: Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:03:56 -0800 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: "WILLIAM A HARMS" Cc: , ,, Subject: Re: to restore or not/NOTMIME-Version: 1.0Content-Type: multipart/alternative;boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE5602.09A23020"Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitX- MSMail-Priority: NormalX-Priority: 3X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Fri Feb 12 16:40:01 1999 16:40:16 -0600 R8.30.00.7) Subject: calling all motor gurus Since I am far from an electronics or electric motor guru I thought I'd put out a call for any help anyone might be able to give me on this. I have a source for 3 step motors I want to use in various places in my rodmaking equipage. These are from antiquated scientific equipment that is to be junked. The problem is that I am not sure how to go about hooking these motors up and setting up a speed control rheostat. Maybe one of you could help. The motors are Superior electric slo-syn synchronous/stepping motors. The stats on the back read 200 oz.in; 200 steps/rev; 2.5 V; 4.6 A; DCThere are 6 wires coming off the motor. Any suggestions on a practical way to set up or obtain a power source that would be appropriate to use with these motors? This may be a real dumb question so don't hesitate to say so :-0 The electronics that is currently attached to them is pretty big so I would like to discard it if possible.ThanksJon McAnulty from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Feb 12 17:00:27 1999 Subject: modified 3 wgt taper All,There have been several requests for the 3 wgt taper I modified from7'9"to 71/2'. I use weight forward lines FWIW.0"-.062, 5"-.064, 10"- .083, 15"-.100, 20"-.116, 25"-.130, 30"-.142,35"-.158, 40"-.172, 45"-.184, 50"-.198, 55"-.212, 60"-.224, 65"-.238,70"-.252, 75"-.266, 80"-.280, 90"- .280 + or -.Have fun.Hank W. from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Fri Feb 12 17:05:39 1999 with SMTP(MDaemon.v2.7.SP6b.R) for ; Fri, 12 Feb1999 18:07:41 -0500 Subject: Gathering Information Needed Does anyone have a comprehensive list of all the gatherings alreadyscheduled for 1999? I live in TN not too far from Gatlinburg, and wouldlove to organize a gathering there. I know that the FFF conclave isscheduled for August, but it will be a zoo then and I believe that agathering of rodmakers would be better at an earlier or later date. Thanks in advance Joe Byrd (aka JoeBoy) from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Feb 12 18:10:52 1999 Subject: Re: First time using Nyatex I think it was your new binder and not the adhesive that made wetstraighteningmore difficult. The Garrison binder, from my experience put far to muchpressureon the cord for the tip section using the recommended weight. Thoman, Brian wrote: I've built most of my rods using G2 epoxy and I noticed someobservationsbetween the two that I thought I'd pass along. Maybe those who've useddifferent glues can tell their likes and dislikes of particular glues. The first thing I noticed was the consistency of the glue when mixed. G2ismuch thicker and the strips stay together when formed in the hexwithout anypressure. The pieces of tape are a pain to get off but there's no chanceofa strip flipping when binding. As a matter of fact, the instructions forglue say not to use any clamping, although I've never tried it. I bound allmy rods by hand when using the G2 and it was extremely easy. The gluedblanks are completely dry (not tacky) after one day and the bindingstringcomes off very easily even after being heat treated. The manufacturer isinCanada and they said to heat treat at 120 degrees F, so it's obvious itwillnot take the heat that Nyatex will. The glue is more difficult to sand orfile off of the blank than Nyatex and is definitely more difficult to heatstraighten. The Nyatex is more liquid and therefore more difficult to bind. I didn'tbind by hand but used my newly made Garrison style binder. The tapewasmuch easier to remove. I found the Nyatex to be more difficult tostraighten when wet. I removed the binding string the next day (the gluewas still very tacky) rebound it by hand and heat treated at 200 degreesF sanded off the glue. This was a breeze as was heat straightening thesections. I'd have to say that the G2 is much easier to use when gluing and bindingbut much more difficult to deal with after the glue dries. Nyatex makesafter gluing a cinch. I have some Shell Epon I plan on using and it's myunderstanding that it's properties are very comparable to the G2. I thinkit takes heat a bit better but still less than Nyatex, although I'm noexpert. Brian ThomanThe Chattahoochee River Rod CompanyParker, Coloradohttp://www.bambooflyrods.com(303) 805-5733 from jaquin@netsync.net Fri Feb 12 20:44:34 1999 quartz.netsync.net(8.9.2/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA19826; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:43:56 -0500 Subject: Re: dowel pins channer wrote: At 09:43 PM 2/11/99 -0600, BRIAN JUSTISS wrote:I want to thank everybody for their assistance. Most of you are togenerous, but I really appreciate the help. The only industrial supplycompany in my area only sells to businesses and none of the machineshops were interested in selling to me from their supply, so it lookslike I might have to mailorder. The idea of cutting my own from rodseems like a good idea. Has anyone had any bad experiences doing this oris their a particular way I should go about it? ThanksBrian Justiss Brian;You can buy boxes of 25 (I think, or maybe its 100, but still not muchmoney) from Enco.Johnhi john, sometime ago there was a post that Enco went out of business. i haven't received a catalog from them for quite some time now. ifBrian can't find dowel pins from w. w. grainger, Mcmaster-carr mailorder houses, he maybe able to buy some drill rod where he bought hisC.r.s. and cut his own pins.grainger erie,pa 1-814-456-4570 mcm-c cleveland 1-330-995-5500jerry from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Fri Feb 12 22:52:23 1999 mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net(InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP Subject: Impregnated Rods My first cane rod(purchased late 60s) was an impregnated Farlow andlater Igot an Orvis. Never knew what they were impregnated with, but heard atonepoint that some kind of bakelite resin was used. One tip on the Orviswould regularly take a nasty set. In the prior discussion on impregnated rods, nobody discussed/revealedwhatis/was being used to impregnate rods. Is it a proprietary secret of somesort? Terry? A.J.? Don't you guys currently impregnate some rods? Whatdid Orvis, Phillipson and Wright and McGill use? How about T&T?Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from mrmac@tcimet.net Fri Feb 12 23:32:19 1999 Subject: Re: calling all motor gurus Jon, that motor, a stepping motor, has 4 windings that must besequentiallyenergized in a sequence that then causes them to "step" forward orbackwarddepending on the sequence that you use. As stated, that motor has 200stepsper revolution (1.8*/step), although there are tricks of the trade that cancoax smaller increments if you feel like getting fancy. Typically, as thenameplate indicates, these motors require low voltage (2.5VDC), andrelativelyhigh current (4.6A). The six wires are connected internally in the motorsuchthat three of them connect to each end and the joined middle of two of thewindings, and the other three similarly connect to the other two windings-like this (if I can do this with type): hmmmhmmmd and hmmmhmmmd. The power source will need to be low volts, high current, with highcurrentbeing the important part to achieve the rated torque. Higher voltagepowersupplies can be used, but then in-series voltage dropping resistors (andtheywill need to be quite high power rating) will need to be used; I'm not surewhere you can pick these up cheaply. The "pretty big" electronics soundslikeit may well be the power supply you need. If it is "real heavy", it isprobably the power supply. It may be the stepping controls to sequencetheenergization of the windings, though, in which case you would need toprovidethe DC power supply. Typically, a stepper controller has one input for a pulse train in, and has asecond input which controls direction. These inputs would likely besomethinglike 0 - 12 VDC would be my guess. The rheostat approach to speedcontrol isnot how these motors operate, or at least not with the rheostat directlyconnected to the motor. There may be a way to operate these more simply in the synchronousmotor mode,but I am less familiar with that approach, and perhaps someone else maybe ableto suggest it. Operating in the stepper motor mode, rodmaking uses don'tseemto me to be the kind of typical application for the motors since they step,step, step as opposed to smooth continuous motion, and their powerrequirements, especially the relatively high amperage, make themcumbersome 110VAC, low current motors from sources that have been discussed in thelist ormay be in the archives. Hope this helps ya some. mac mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu wrote: Since I am far from an electronics or electric motor guru I thoughtI'd put out a call for any help anyone might be able to give me onthis. I have a source for 3 step motors I want to use in variousplaces in my rodmaking equipage. These are from antiquatedscientificequipment that is to be junked. The problem is that I am not sure howto go about hooking these motors up and setting up a speed controlrheostat. Maybe one of you could help. The motors are Superior electric slo-syn synchronous/steppingmotors.The stats on the back read 200 oz.in; 200 steps/rev; 2.5 V; 4.6 A; DCThere are 6 wires coming off the motor. Any suggestions on a practical way to set up or obtain a power sourcethat would be appropriate to use with these motors? This may be arealdumb question so don't hesitate to say so :-0 The electronics that iscurrently attached to them is pretty big so I would like to discard itif possible.ThanksJon McAnulty from bjust@bellsouth.net Sat Feb 13 00:42:32 1999 BAA18719 Subject: Re: dowel pins Thanks everyone. I have a Grainger in my area, but they said they onlysell to business. A guy I know has an account with them and I could gethim to get me some. Thanks for all the offers of sending me some, butthat seems like alot of trouble if cutting my own will work. I've gotsome 1/4 rod and am going to try and cut and grind some this weekend. Brian Justiss from chris@artistree.com Sat Feb 13 01:23:04 1999 Subject: Re: dowel pins mac-creator="4D4F5353" F.Y.I. - ENCO did not go out of business. What they did do was close alltheirstores and have gone strictly mail-order. They are now based in Nevada(CarsonCity I think). Same phone number. Ordered some things from them in Dec.Newcatalog is taking longer due to the reorganization and is expected in April. --Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com hi john, sometime ago there was a post that Enco went out of business.i haven't received a catalog from them for quite some time now. ifBrian can't find dowel pins from w. w. grainger, Mcmaster-carr mailorder houses, he maybe able to buy some drill rod where he bought hisC.r.s. and cut his own pins.grainger erie,pa 1-814-456-4570 mcm-c cleveland 1-330-995-5500jerry from gaff@carol.net Sat Feb 13 06:07:22 1999 0500Message-ID: Subject: rough planing form hey guys,i want to make a rough planing form. i thought i saw some plans, butcan't locate them now.grateful for any help.thanks,wil from OBorge@aiss.uic.edu Sat Feb 13 07:38:57 1999 Subject: Olaf Borge will be in San Francisco RODMAKERS, I will be in San Francisco from Sat. Feb. 20th until Sat. the 27th. I would like to meet with any cane rod builders or wannabe'swho live near by, to drink, eat, talk cane/fish etc. I have yet to finish a rod but have several started. I have justbound and heat treated untapered strips for several one piece 60" rods.I Own a Morgan Mill and all the other hardware needed. I am currentlytuning the finish anvils for my mill. I will be staying at the S.F. Hilton and Towers 333 O'farrell St. I am attending The SHARE Conference. A gathering of IBMMain Frame System programmers. My schedule will be adjustablebut I won't know what I will really want to attend until I see theprogram. Let email if there is any intereste. Olaf BorgeSystems Programmer/System SoftwareUniversity of Illinois/AISS/CNO312/996-5212 from OBorge@aiss.uic.edu Sat Feb 13 07:44:46 1999 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Impregnated Rods The Orvis patent has expired.The Patent Office will send you a copy.I have a copy and will send you a copy it or perhapsJerry Foster could post it on his ROADMAKER's Page. Olaf BorgeSystems Programmer/System SoftwareUniversity of Illinois/AISS/CNO312/996-5212 -----Original Message-----From: Michael Leitheiser [SMTP:flyh2o@worldnet.att.net]Sent: Friday, February 12, 1999 10:29 PM Subject: Impregnated Rods My first cane rod(purchased late 60s) was an impregnated Farlow andlater Igot an Orvis. Never knew what they were impregnated with, but heardat onepoint that some kind of bakelite resin was used. One tip on the Orviswould regularly take a nasty set. In the prior discussion on impregnated rods, nobody discussed/revealedwhatis/was being used to impregnate rods. Is it a proprietary secret ofsomesort? Terry? A.J.? Don't you guys currently impregnate some rods?Whatdid Orvis, Phillipson and Wright and McGill use? How about T&T?Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sat Feb 13 07:58:01 1999 sims.3.5.1998.03.08.20.27)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, Subject: RE: Impregnated Rods rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Hi Olaf, If you have a copy, I'd appreciate it if you couldsend one to me too. Thanks Richard -----Original Message----- Of Borge, Olaf A. rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Impregnated Rods The Orvis patent has expired.The Patent Office will send you a copy.I have a copy and will send you a copy it orperhapsJerry Foster could post it on his ROADMAKER'sPage. Olaf BorgeSystems Programmer/System SoftwareUniversity of Illinois/AISS/CNO312/996-5212 -----Original Message-----From: Michael Leitheiser[SMTP:flyh2o@worldnet.att.net]Sent: Friday, February 12, 1999 10:29 PM Subject: Impregnated Rods My first cane rod(purchased late 60s) was animpregnated Farlow andlater Igot an Orvis. Never knew what they wereimpregnated with, but heardat onepoint that some kind of bakelite resin was used.One tip on the Orviswould regularly take a nasty set. In the prior discussion on impregnated rods,nobody discussed/revealedwhatis/was being used to impregnate rods. Is it aproprietary secret ofsomesort? Terry? A.J.? Don't you guys currentlyimpregnate some rods?Whatdid Orvis, Phillipson and Wright and McGill use?How about T&T?Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sat Feb 13 09:20:15 1999 Sat, 13 Feb 1999 09:17:34 -0600 Subject: Re: Gathering Information Needed Joe,Don't have all the info on other gatherings, but the 1999 "SouthernRodmakers Gathering" will be October 28-30, near Mountain Home,Arkansas, onthe world famous White River. That's not too far from Gatlinburg, and wewould love to have you join us.I'm planning to be at the FFF Conclave. Maybe we can get together then. Harry Boyd Joe C. Byrd wrote: Does anyone have a comprehensive list of all the gatherings alreadyscheduled for 1999? I live in TN not too far from Gatlinburg, and wouldlove to organize a gathering there. I know that the FFF conclave isscheduled for August, but it will be a zoo then and I believe that agathering of rodmakers would be better at an earlier or later date. Thanks in advance Joe Byrd (aka JoeBoy) from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Sat Feb 13 10:22:31 1999 R8.30.00.7) Subject: Re[2]: calling all motor gurus To all of you that answered my motor query either on list or by email- thanks! I think I can rebox the controlling electronics into a smaller unit, well ventilated, since the current configuration has a lot of wasted space for other non-electronic needs and the actual power source and controller board are fairly compact (but seriously heavy, huge coils/magnet/whatever). However, based on the suggestions Ihave received, this system is probably way more complex and more trouble than it is worth so I will probably junk it in favor of a low RPM AC motor. Thanks again. This list is invaluable.Jon from rcurry@ttlc.net Sat Feb 13 10:35:32 1999 (SMTPD32-4.07) id AA36950184; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:37:10 EST Subject: Re: Fly lines A.J.,The original white (Ivory) S.A. Air Cel Supreme in double taper maystill be had in some shops for $18-23. These are excellent lines, andthinner than most more modern lines.Best regards,Reed "A.J.Thramer" wrote: I am extremely tired of being 'hosed' for these grossly overpriced flylines. I mean REALLY! what are they talking about. Some of these linesare over $60!!. I started to buy Cortland 333 lines after somedissapointing trials with the 'big money' lines. DT only of course. Asan aside it is becoming more difficult to find even DT lines. As far asI am concerned WF line are an abomination. If I wanted to have a linewith one end that won't cast accuratly past 40ft, eliminate line controland not roll cast I would assume that the manufacturers would PAY ME!A.J.Thramer from rcurry@ttlc.net Sat Feb 13 11:02:04 1999 (SMTPD32-4.07) id A06F5C0180; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 12:03:43 EST Subject: Re: A & F Monogram 9' 6 oz Salmon Rod Steve,Not unlike finding a coin marked "227 B.C.", a 1940's vintage rod withAFTMAline weight designations from the early 1960's.Apart from that obvious disparity, A&F did market a "Monogram", but Idoubtthat they ever, since, say, 1910, sold a bamboo rod that was round andnone,"Salmon Red" in color. It sounds like an early '60s fiberglass rod. The useof agreen reelseat with a red rod is certainly hideous enough to place it in the'60sor early seventies.None of the statements above are intended to denigrate what may be asuperbcasting and fishing rod. Some of the better fiberglass rods were a delighttocast. Olaf let me cast a Heddon Black Beauty in glass that I quietly lustafter.Best regards,Reed SBDunn@aol.com wrote: Can anyone tell me anything about a supposedly bamboo fly rod labeled(inscript) "A and F Monogram" "Salmon Rod 9'-6oz." "Line Size #8". The rodisround and "Salmon red" in color. Bought in the 1940s from Aberchrombie and Fitch. Reel seat is greenmetal butlooks like a Heddon. The rest of the rod (as near as I can tell from thepicture he emailed me) does not look like Heddon. If anyone can tell me anything about the rod (including approx. value) Iwouldappreciate it. Thanks in advance, Steve. from stpete@netten.net Sat Feb 13 18:01:27 1999 cedar.netten.net(8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA09422 for ;Sat, 13 Feb 1999 Subject: Dowel pins To who ever was inquiring about the availability of dowel pins: MSC Corp sent me a flier today. In it was a list of "Precision GroundDowel Pins". A 100 count box of their 3/16" dia. 3/4" long dowel pinsis on sale for $5.77 (item 06023071), 1" long is on sale for $6.44 (item06023105). MSC sells all kinds of tools and supplies and they ship pronto. Theyare not always cheapest, but they might be a real godsend for those inremote areas. phone # is 1-800-645-7270, fax is 1-800-255-5067, website is http://www.miscdirect.com Standard disclaimers apply, I have no financial interest, etc, etc... Rick C. from jfoster@gte.net Sat Feb 13 19:12:46 1999 Subject: Re: Gathering Information Needed mac-creator="4D4F5353" All I have just posted an outstanding contribution by Claude Freaner on theconstruction furled leaders. it's at the bottom of the tipspage...enjoy...thank you Claude jerry from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Feb 13 20:39:19 1999 Subject: Re: Impregnated Rods Mike,I impregnate all my rods. I know Orvis used phenolic resins. I do not knowwhatT&T or A.J. uses, I would not think to ask.Having a few little secrets is part of the game. If we all did everythingthesame we may as well paint em all dark grey.Terry Michael Leitheiser wrote: My first cane rod(purchased late 60s) was an impregnated Farlow andlater Igot an Orvis. Never knew what they were impregnated with, but heard atonepoint that some kind of bakelite resin was used. One tip on the Orviswould regularly take a nasty set. In the prior discussion on impregnated rods, nobody discussed/revealedwhatis/was being used to impregnate rods. Is it a proprietary secret of somesort? Terry? A.J.? Don't you guys currently impregnate some rods? Whatdid Orvis, Phillipson and Wright and McGill use? How about T&T?Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Feb 13 23:07:18 1999 Subject: dueling rodmakers Just took a look at the updated archives, what a scream. I think perhapsthere is need for a little editing.Terry from WayneCatt@aol.com Sat Feb 13 23:45:01 1999 Subject: The Sloth Report I have just returned home from a meeting of the Grayrock Sub-committee onLeveraged takeOvers & Time-management Habits. There is concern bymembers ofthe sub-committee that some attendees of TTBBBQ V will miss theopportunity ofowning a bamboo fly rod. And that with the pressure being placed on thetimeelement of production something needs to be done. Thus the formation ofTeamGrayrock. Their assignment (if they accept it ) will be to produce a bamboofly rod within a 1 3/4 hour time limit. With the finished product beingfocused at the needs of the FishHeads group.To accomplished this task certain assembly methods will need to berefined.It has been suggested that the use of Duct Tape be allowed. A ruling willbedecided shortly. Economic issues of the finished rods has also beenbrought tothe surface. Because the FishHeads are the target group thought to fishingefficiency must be considered. Suggestion from the floor were taken andthesub-committee ruled that the handle could be in the fashion of the favoredbrown bottle design. A demonstration was given of how valuable castingtimecould be saved if the caster could both refresh the thirst and do a backcastin one. Here again Duct Tape will be accepted for attachment purposes.Whenother hardware issues were brought into light - at about the same timememberX opened another beer - the sub- committee was in approval of the use ofpoptabs to replace the economics burden of purchasing guides for the rod. Andinkeeping with the asthenic balance Duct Tape would again be considered asappropriate.Perhaps the biggest objection to the project was total stealth ofthoseactually involved with the rods creation - two action were drafted to dealwith the issues. First the makers names would be kept on the post it boardatthe Clubhouse - assuring total confidence. Secondly all attendees would beasked (aka required) to personally endorse the created rod.As an ending thought the subcommittee felt it necessary that anappropiatetransport system be devise for the rod. Here again the issuse of focus wasdiscussed - being that the FishHead being the target group - the standthrowaway Foam Cooler was chosen with a bungee cord system in for rodsecurity. rod areencouraged to file your reserve bits early.The Swarts Creek Show was rather fun this weekend Wayne from maxrod@geocities.com Sun Feb 14 01:13:49 1999 Subject: LA trip To the list memers around LA, I returned from my business trip at Santa Monica.Let me tell my thanks for those who helped me in suggestions, showingways,driving me around,taking me fishing. I could enjoy 100% of my stay at S.M..I got back many numbers of cork rings from Bob Marryott and friendshipfromUS.I am afraid it might cause the price of cork rings up there. I uploaded the pictures on my web. under the items of "Rivers Visited".It was a pity that I could not attend IS Expo. at San Mateo though. from my heart friends, Max Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail(English):maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page(English):http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/index.htmlemail(Japanese):maxrod@geocities.comHome Page(Japanese):http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sun Feb 14 01:20:33 1999 (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP Sun, 14 Feb 1999 07:20:00 +0000 Subject: Re: The Sloth Report Wayne, You may have just stumbled on the secret of George Gehrke's $300 bambooflyrod -- duct tape! In all his postings I don't recall him mentioninganything about gluing and binding the rod or even wrapping the guides onwith silk thread. You're a genius! Duct tape...it never occurred to me. George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: The Sloth Report I have just returned home from a meeting of the Grayrock Sub-committee onLeveraged takeOvers & Time-management Habits. There is concern bymembersofthe sub-committee that some attendees of TTBBBQ V will miss theopportunityofowning a bamboo fly rod. And that with the pressure being placed on thetimeelement of production something needs to be done. Thus the formation ofTeamGrayrock. Their assignment (if they accept it ) will be to produce abamboofly rod within a 1 3/4 hour time limit. With the finished product beingfocused at the needs of the FishHeads group.To accomplished this task certain assembly methods will need to berefined.It has been suggested that the use of Duct Tape be allowed. A ruling willbedecided shortly. Economic issues of the finished rods has also beenbroughttothe surface. Because the FishHeads are the target group thought tofishingefficiency must be considered. Suggestion from the floor were taken andthesub-committee ruled that the handle could be in the fashion of thefavoredbrown bottle design. A demonstration was given of how valuable castingtimecould be saved if the caster could both refresh the thirst and do a backcastin one. Here again Duct Tape will be accepted for attachment purposes.Whenother hardware issues were brought into light - at about the same timememberX opened another beer - the sub- committee was in approval of the use ofpoptabs to replace the economics burden of purchasing guides for the rod.Andinkeeping with the asthenic balance Duct Tape would again be considered asappropriate.Perhaps the biggest objection to the project was total stealth of thoseactually involved with the rods creation - two action were drafted todealwith the issues. First the makers names would be kept on the post itboardatthe Clubhouse - assuring total confidence. Secondly all attendees wouldbeasked (aka required) to personally endorse the created rod.As an ending thought the subcommittee felt it necessary that anappropiatetransport system be devise for the rod. Here again the issuse of focuswasdiscussed - being that the FishHead being the target group - the standthrowaway Foam Cooler was chosen with a bungee cord system in for rodsecurity. areencouraged to file your reserve bits early.The Swarts Creek Show was rather fun this weekend Wayne from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Sun Feb 14 09:09:35 1999 with SMTP(MDaemon.v2.7.SP6b.R) for ; Sun, 14 Feb1999 10:11:29 -0500 Subject: Help Needed I am in the process of designing, writing, developing and testing aWindows95/98 based software program to store tapers, and also to keeptrackof all the rods we build, who their sold to, etc. This software will store information such as, taper, taper designer,length,ferrule information, weight, heat treating specifications for that rod,grip, reel seat, etc. It will also store whom this was sold to, and therod's unique serial number that the builder has assigned to it. There willalso be a section for free-hand notes about each particular rod. I need input on this project, and most importantly I am looking for betatesters. If you would like to give input and/or be a beta tester of thissoftware please email me off the list at jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Thanks Joe from jfoster@gte.net Sun Feb 14 10:35:19 1999 Subject: Re: dueling rodmakers mac-creator="4D4F5353" Terry We each contribute in our own way...or not jerry from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Feb 14 11:53:02 1999 Subject: Re: Help Needed Joe,a great idea, perhaps we could all have a unique serial no. tatooed on ourforearms as well?Terry Joe C. Byrd wrote: I am in the process of designing, writing, developing and testing aWindows95/98 based software program to store tapers, and also to keeptrackof all the rods we build, who their sold to, etc. This software will store information such as, taper, taper designer,length,ferrule information, weight, heat treating specifications for that rod,grip, reel seat, etc. It will also store whom this was sold to, and therod's unique serial number that the builder has assigned to it. There willalso be a section for free-hand notes about each particular rod. I need input on this project, and most importantly I am looking for betatesters. If you would like to give input and/or be a beta tester of thissoftware please email me off the list at jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Thanks Joe from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Feb 14 12:19:41 1999 Subject: Re: dueling rodmakers Jerry,reading those posts after the heat had died was at first hilarious thenit became a little frightening! I am not going to accept all the blamealthough I was in the middle of most of it and I am ashamed of how itended up.Is there any way of removing all that garbage from the archives withoutcreating too much work?Terry Ackland Jerry Foster wrote: Terry We each contribute in our own way...or not jerry from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sun Feb 14 12:29:05 1999 (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP Sun, 14 Feb 1999 18:28:32 +0000 Subject: Re: Help Needed Terry, Actually, you might find something like this quite convenient and friendlyto use even if you don't like computers. Some database programs (likeAccess) allow you to store and associate very (format) unrelated types ofdata. For instance, if you have a scanner, sound card, and microphone onyour PC (the whole group can be had for less than $100) you can pull up anytaper you've ever built (or considered building), click on a field and see aphoto of your finished rod, click on another field and hear your commentsonthe rod (or your customer's comments). It would be great for capturingwhatthe rod was like originally as well as what the customer most appreciatedabout the rod ==> it would be unbeatable for ensuring that customerswerehappy with a refinish job in the future! George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Help Needed Joe,a great idea, perhaps we could all have a unique serial no. tatooed on ourforearms as well?Terry Joe C. Byrd wrote: I am in the process of designing, writing, developing and testing aWindows95/98 based software program to store tapers, and also tokeeptrackof all the rods we build, who their sold to, etc. This software will store information such as, taper, taper designer,length,ferrule information, weight, heat treating specifications for that rod,grip, reel seat, etc. It will also store whom this was sold to, and therod's unique serial number that the builder