from dickay@alltel.net Mon Mar 1 05:48:26 1999 FAA08790; Subject: Re: My Webb Page Nice Web Page. Please send me a brouchure. Dick Fuhrman6212 Boston St.Fort Smith, AR 72903----------From: LECLAIR123@aol.com Subject: Re: My Webb PageDate: Sunday, February 28, 1999 11:16 AM Hi, Guys,I've just set up my Free Web page through AOL.I'm not trying to sell anything, I just want to know if itcomes up OK and what you think of it. Check it out- http://members.aol.com/leclair123/express/index.htm Thanks guys, Dave Leclair from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Mon Mar 1 09:17:43 1999 Subject: scraper plane I've finally gotten down to final planing, and have been using ahand-held sandvik scraper blade for those final few thousandths, but itsawfully hard on the fingers and I'm shopping for a scraper holder orscraper plane. I've seen quite a few references to the Stanley 212, butI can't seem to find one - the only thing I run across is a Lie-Nielsenreproduction which looks beautiful but is WAY too expensive. Anybodyknow where a bona fide 212 or its affordable equivalent can be had? Isthe Stanley 80 or the Veritas scraper holder suitable for this purpose? who want to build their final planing forms out of rock maple or someother hard wood. I used Tony Young's design based on barrel boltsrather than push-pull screws. If you're going to do this, be sure tosoap your dowels and/or lay in a good supply of bolts, because the hexdrive socket in the head of the bolt has a bad tendency to strip due tothe resistance of the form to opening and closing. I lost a lot ofbolts while I was making the tapered bevels (I used Bruce Conner'smethod of scraping them on using a 60 degree lathe tool, which I alreadyhad) because of the large settings I had to turn the bolts to. Also,if/when I do it over again, I'm going to put a separate access plateover each bolt head, rather than a single metal strip with multipleaccess holes, to facilitate removal and replacement. Otherwise, itseems to work great: its fairly easy to set with precision, and it holdsa setting even without using the set screws I added to the design. And,even counting the half dozen bolts I've had to replace so far, the wholething has cost me only about $30 in materials plus about $18 to rent anold monster of a Milwaukee drill press for the day I drilled all thosezillions of holes. from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Mar 1 09:28:20 1999 (5.5.2407.0) "'SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us'" Subject: RE: scraper plane and original Stanley, if you can find one, cost about ten time as much asthe lie-nielsen ----------From: Seth Steinzor[SMTP:SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us] Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 7:20 AM Subject: scraper plane I've finally gotten down to final planing, and have been using ahand-held sandvik scraper blade for those final few thousandths, but itsawfully hard on the fingers and I'm shopping for a scraper holder orscraper plane. I've seen quite a few references to the Stanley 212, butI can't seem to find one - the only thing I run across is a Lie-Nielsenreproduction which looks beautiful but is WAY too expensive. Anybodyknow where a bona fide 212 or its affordable equivalent can be had? Isthe Stanley 80 or the Veritas scraper holder suitable for this purpose? from eric.koehler@meissner-wurst.com Mon Mar 1 11:06:31 1999 user@gateus.meissner-wurst.com gateus.meissner-wurst.com viasmap (4.1) (5.0.1460.8) Subject: FW: scraper plane My experience as well... I saw one on a collector's list about two years agoand I seem to remember a price of between $1500. - $1800. Makes the L- Nscraper seem like not such a bad deal... the LN is, by the way, a nice tool. Eck -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: scraper plane and original Stanley, if you can find one, cost about ten time as much asthe lie-nielsen ----------From: Seth Steinzor[SMTP:SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us] Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 7:20 AM Subject: scraper plane I've finally gotten down to final planing, and have been using ahand-held sandvik scraper blade for those final few thousandths, but itsawfully hard on the fingers and I'm shopping for a scraper holder orscraper plane. I've seen quite a few references to the Stanley 212, butI can't seem to find one - the only thing I run across is a Lie-Nielsenreproduction which looks beautiful but is WAY too expensive. Anybodyknow where a bona fide 212 or its affordable equivalent can be had? Isthe Stanley 80 or the Veritas scraper holder suitable for this purpose? from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Mar 1 11:19:08 1999 (5.5.2407.0) "'eric.koehler@meissner-wurst.com'" Subject: RE: scraper plane In all actuality the Lie-Nielsen is probably a better made plane than theStanley. ----------From: Koehler, Eric[SMTP:eric.koehler@meissner-wurst.com] Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 9:00 AM Subject: FW: scraper plane My experience as well... I saw one on a collector's list about two yearsagoand I seem to remember a price of between $1500. - $1800. Makes theL- Nscraper seem like not such a bad deal... the LN is, by the way, a nice tool. Eck -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 9:28 AM Subject: RE: scraper plane and original Stanley, if you can find one, cost about ten time as much asthe lie-nielsen from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Mon Mar 1 12:21:58 1999 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id HAA29722; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 07:20:30 +1300 "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Subject: Re: scraper plane Seth, and others I have built a few sets of wooden forms using Tony's design and wouldendorse Seth's comments. They work really well and can be made in anafternoon if the timber is taken to a joinery shop and planned through acommercial planner or sander first. A sander gives a more even finish thenaplanner. Also if you cut the grooves wrong because you get confusedbetweenthe measurement of the depth of the groove and the length of the side ofthegroove it is not a major hassle to take them back to the joinery shop andhave them sand 1/4 inch off the top so you can start the grooves again. ( Iknow !!) The barrel bolts sell in packets of 10 and two packets are usually needed.Ihave found the timber tends to "grab" the bolts if adjustments are done atmore the two turns at a time , and then it is easy to strip the heads. Isuspect the timber bends a little when the forms is being set so byworkingup and down the form to gradually get to the final setting with a numberofadjustments there is less problem of stripping bolts heads. I also found the the 60degree lathe tool tended to dig a bit in timber and on the bench so the 60 degree angle can be planned using a hand plane. Forthis jig I use four pieces of 2 inch by one inch timber about 9 inches longand cut a V in the timber with the V on an angle so the required 60 degreeangle is achieved by planning horizontaly. I then line the four pieces ofwood up on the old work bench and nail them down so the timber can besupported in the V . The depth of the groove is then marked on the timberatan angle and the corner of the timber planed down to the mark keeping theplane horizontal to achieve the desired angle on the edge of the form. JackHowells suggestion of a mirror at the end of the bench helps here to keepthe plane horizontal . The forms can then be put together and the groovetidied up , if necessary , using a triangular file glued on a piece of woodas per Wayne's suggestion. ( I think I have made this sound quitecomplicated , it is actually very simple and if anyone is interested I cansend them a diagram) I picked up a dowling jig for use with my electic drill from the fleamarket andsanded at the same time in a joinery shop ready to be made into forms Ifindthat I can make a set of forms in an afternoon. As such I have tended tobuild a new set of forms for each taper I have tried. It has been said manytimes here that building the equipment is as much fun (?) as building therods.I guess that is right.If anyone is thinking of building these woodenforms feel free to contact me as there are a number of little tricks whichhelp to make these easy to build. regards Iank 10:20 AM 1/03/99 -0500, Seth Steinzor wrote:deleted who want to build their final planing forms out of rock maple or someother hard wood. I used Tony Young's design based on barrel boltsrather than push-pull screws. If you're going to do this, be sure tosoap your dowels and/or lay in a good supply of bolts, because the hexdrive socket in the head of the bolt has a bad tendency to strip due tothe resistance of the form to opening and closing. I lost a lot ofbolts while I was making the tapered bevels (I used Bruce Conner'smethod of scraping them on using a 60 degree lathe tool, which I alreadyhad) because of the large settings I had to turn the bolts to. Also,if/when I do it over again, I'm going to put a separate access plateover each bolt head, rather than a single metal strip with multipleaccess holes, to facilitate removal and replacement. Otherwise, itseems to work great: its fairly easy to set with precision, and it holdsa setting even without using the set screws I added to the design. And,even counting the half dozen bolts I've had to replace so far, the wholething has cost me only about $30 in materials plus about $18 to rent anold monster of a Milwaukee drill press for the day I drilled all thosezillions of holes. from dryfly@erols.com Mon Mar 1 12:24:52 1999 Subject: Re: scraper plane Used my LN 212 again over the weekend and it is a great tool and wellworththe money.Bob Seth Steinzor wrote: I've finally gotten down to final planing, and have been using ahand-held sandvik scraper blade for those final few thousandths, but itsawfully hard on the fingers and I'm shopping for a scraper holder orscraper plane. I've seen quite a few references to the Stanley 212, butI can't seem to find one - the only thing I run across is a Lie-Nielsenreproduction which looks beautiful but is WAY too expensive. Anybodyknow where a bona fide 212 or its affordable equivalent can be had? Isthe Stanley 80 or the Veritas scraper holder suitable for this purpose? who want to build their final planing forms out of rock maple or someother hard wood. I used Tony Young's design based on barrel boltsrather than push-pull screws. If you're going to do this, be sure tosoap your dowels and/or lay in a good supply of bolts, because the hexdrive socket in the head of the bolt has a bad tendency to strip due tothe resistance of the form to opening and closing. I lost a lot ofbolts while I was making the tapered bevels (I used Bruce Conner'smethod of scraping them on using a 60 degree lathe tool, which I alreadyhad) because of the large settings I had to turn the bolts to. Also,if/when I do it over again, I'm going to put a separate access plateover each bolt head, rather than a single metal strip with multipleaccess holes, to facilitate removal and replacement. Otherwise, itseems to work great: its fairly easy to set with precision, and it holdsa setting even without using the set screws I added to the design. And,even counting the half dozen bolts I've had to replace so far, the wholething has cost me only about $30 in materials plus about $18 to rent anold monster of a Milwaukee drill press for the day I drilled all thosezillions of holes. from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Mar 1 13:15:43 1999 Mon, 1 Mar 1999 13:13:02 -0600 Subject: Re: scraper plane Seth,One day soon I'm going to get around to buying one of the Lie Nielsenplanes, but I have not done so yet. Several on this list like the littlefingertip scrapers that are sold in various woodworking magazines, aswellas through Jon Lintvet's Munro Rod Company. If my forms are accurate,andmy plane is REALLY sharp, I am able to get as close to final dimensions asIcan measure by hand without ever scraping.But I still want one of those LN scrapers... If you're looking for other sources try this link:http://www.supertool.com/stanleybg/stan0.htmGet on Patrick's email list. I get a "For Sale" list about once a month.In fact, got one just today!! Harry Seth Steinzor wrote: I've finally gotten down to final planing, and have been using ahand-held sandvik scraper blade for those final few thousandths, but itsawfully hard on the fingers and I'm shopping for a scraper holder orscraper plane. I've seen quite a few references to the Stanley 212, butI can't seem to find one - the only thing I run across is a Lie-Nielsenreproduction which looks beautiful but is WAY too expensive. Anybodyknow where a bona fide 212 or its affordable equivalent can be had? Isthe Stanley 80 or the Veritas scraper holder suitable for this purpose? who want to build their final planing forms out of rock maple or someother hard wood. I used Tony Young's design based on barrel boltsrather than push-pull screws. If you're going to do this, be sure tosoap your dowels and/or lay in a good supply of bolts, because the hexdrive socket in the head of the bolt has a bad tendency to strip due tothe resistance of the form to opening and closing. I lost a lot ofbolts while I was making the tapered bevels (I used Bruce Conner'smethod of scraping them on using a 60 degree lathe tool, which I alreadyhad) because of the large settings I had to turn the bolts to. Also,if/when I do it over again, I'm going to put a separate access plateover each bolt head, rather than a single metal strip with multipleaccess holes, to facilitate removal and replacement. Otherwise, itseems to work great: its fairly easy to set with precision, and it holdsa setting even without using the set screws I added to the design. And,even counting the half dozen bolts I've had to replace so far, the wholething has cost me only about $30 in materials plus about $18 to rent anold monster of a Milwaukee drill press for the day I drilled all thosezillions of holes. from GeraldB@Pennwell.com Mon Mar 1 13:32:16 1999 (5.5.2448.0) Subject: Steel forms One question: I'm going on the cheap with those things I can make myself- binder, oven, and forms. The forms are the only things giving me a problem.What kind of steel do I want to buy? I have found a new friend whohappensto run a steel fab shop here in Tulsa and can do the CNC work for me atcost(lucky me) and to spec. I've heard "key stock" and "cold rolled" are theticket. But when I say "colled rolled" to my buddy he says, "OK fine. But,what alloy." To which I have no answer. Any and all help is appreciated. Gerald from BThoman@neonsoft.com Mon Mar 1 13:35:35 1999 Subject: Powell Taper If anyone's interested I had the opportunity to cast a 7 1/2 foot WaltonPowell taper this weekend at the Denver show (thanks again to MarkMetcalf).What a rocket! I'm a pathetic caster and was able to make the last ring inthe casting pool with absolutely no effort. If anyone's interested in thetaper I was able to mic the rod. Let me know and I'll post it. Brian ThomanThe Chattahoochee River Rod CompanyParker, Coloradohttp://www.bambooflyrods.com(303) 805-5733 from Ed.Estlow@co.hennepin.mn.us Mon Mar 1 13:47:06 1999 1999 19:45:15 UT 16-1998)) id86256727.006C63AC ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 13:43:54 -0600 Subject: Re: Powell Taper Always interested in tapers! I'd like to see it.Best regards,-Ed Estlow "Thoman, Brian" on 03/01/99 01:31:37 PM Please respond to BThoman@neonsoft.com Subject: Powell Taper If anyone's interested I had the opportunity to cast a 7 1/2 foot WaltonPowell taper this weekend at the Denver show (thanks again to MarkMetcalf).What a rocket! I'm a pathetic caster and was able to make the last ring inthe casting pool with absolutely no effort. If anyone's interested in thetaper I was able to mic the rod. Let me know and I'll post it. Brian ThomanThe Chattahoochee River Rod CompanyParker, Coloradohttp://www.bambooflyrods.com(303) 805-5733 from saltwein@swbell.net Mon Mar 1 16:17:11 1999 QAA27990 Subject: Epon Epoxy Hello All, I came back from running the wife around today (she broke her toe atwork) and found a box from Miller Stephenson chemical company on theporch. I had already received the Epon and have been using it so I waspuzzled as to what might be in the box. I thought perhaps they had senttwo orders in confusion. Upon opening the box I find they have sent me a catalog and four more oftheir products free to evaluate for possible future orders. There wasprobably 25-30 dollars worth of samples. A two part epoxy, 907 I think it was the name of it, it is in tubes. Acan of a foaming cleaning agent. I'll have to keep the wife away from itor she will want me to buy it. A can of pressurized air, for removingdust etc. and a can of releasing agent (anyone ever use this?) All in all if this is standard procedure it really offsets the cost ofthe initial purchase price of $40. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Mon Mar 1 16:19:32 1999 Subject: Steel forms Gerald,Cold Rolled Key Stock. Mine cost about $17.00 for a 12' length at alocal metals supply house. Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net GE>One question: I'm going on the cheap with those things I can makemyself -GE>binder, oven, and forms. The forms are the only things giving me aproblem.GE>What kind of steel do I want to buy? I have found a new friend whohappensGE>to run a steel fab shop here in Tulsa and can do the CNC work for me atcostGE>(lucky me) and to spec. I've heard "key stock" and "cold rolled" are theGE>ticket. But when I say "colled rolled" to my buddy he says, "OK fine. But,GE>what alloy." To which I have no answer. GE>Any and all help is appreciated. GE>Gerald from mevans@acxiom.com Mon Mar 1 16:34:01 1999 (5.5.2448.0) Subject: Custom Jigs and Tools A local machinists supply store here has offered to make some customjigs or tools for rodbuilding. Their prices are very reasonable. Still being a newbe, I'mcurious - If you hadthe opportunity to custom design a few things of your own, is there enoughthat you could doto make it worth while over taking what is on the market? What wouldyou do (ideas,features, specs, etc)? I'm in a sloooow process setting up shop so I'm thinking mostly aboutbuilding forms -improved indicator bases, lathe bit jigs, etc.. But I'm curious about your task in rod construction. This may be a long shot, but maybe there are some ideas for a few 'rodmakers list' consensusjigs or tools to pursue this? Maybe some ideas for silent auction items atgatherings, andsuch. from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Mar 1 16:34:35 1999 SMTP(Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1); Mon, 1 Mar 1999 17:34:42 -0500 Subject: Re: scraper plane We occasionally buy and sell the original 212. Last one went for 2,200. Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod Company)140 E. Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) 277-4510www.munrorodco.com-----Original Message----- 'SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us' Subject: RE: scraper plane and original Stanley, if you can find one, cost about ten time as much asthe lie-nielsen ----------From: Seth Steinzor[SMTP:SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us] Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 7:20 AM Subject: scraper plane I've finally gotten down to final planing, and have been using ahand-held sandvik scraper blade for those final few thousandths, but itsawfully hard on the fingers and I'm shopping for a scraper holder orscraper plane. I've seen quite a few references to the Stanley 212, butI can't seem to find one - the only thing I run across is a Lie-Nielsenreproduction which looks beautiful but is WAY too expensive. Anybodyknow where a bona fide 212 or its affordable equivalent can be had? Isthe Stanley 80 or the Veritas scraper holder suitable for this purpose? from cmj@post11.tele.dk Mon Mar 1 17:04:49 1999 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP Tue, 2 Mar 1999 00:04:45 +0100 Subject: Sv: Powell Taper -----Original Message----- Subject: Powell Taper If anyone's interested I had the opportunity to cast a 7 1/2 foot WaltonPowell taper this weekend at the Denver show (thanks again to MarkMetcalf).What a rocket! I'm a pathetic caster and was able to make the last ring inthe casting pool with absolutely no effort. If anyone's interested in thetaper I was able to mic the rod. Let me know and I'll post it. Brian ThomanThe Chattahoochee River Rod CompanyParker, Coloradohttp://www.bambooflyrods.com(303) 805-5733 I too would like to have a look at that taper regards, Carsten Jorgensen from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Mon Mar 1 17:25:38 1999 with SMTP(MDaemon.v2.7.SP6e.R) for ; Mon, 01 Mar1999 18:24:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Powell Taper I would like to look at that taper as well. Thanks Joe If anyone's interested I had the opportunity to cast a 7 1/2 foot WaltonPowell taper this weekend at the Denver show (thanks again to MarkMetcalf).What a rocket! I'm a pathetic caster and was able to make the last ring inthe casting pool with absolutely no effort. If anyone's interested in thetaper I was able to mic the rod. Let me know and I'll post it. Brian ThomanThe Chattahoochee River Rod CompanyParker, Coloradohttp://www.bambooflyrods.com(303) 805-5733 from jaquin@netsync.net Mon Mar 1 17:53:05 1999 Subject: Re: Powell Taper Thoman, Brian wrote: If anyone's interested I had the opportunity to cast a 7 1/2 foot WaltonPowell taper this weekend at the Denver show (thanks again to MarkMetcalf).What a rocket! I'm a pathetic caster and was able to make the last ringinthe casting pool with absolutely no effort. If anyone's interested in thetaper I was able to mic the rod. Let me know and I'll post it. Brian ThomanThe Chattahoochee River Rod CompanyParker, Coloradohttp://www.bambooflyrods.com(303) 805-5733hi brian, please post to the list. i'm sure there are alot of usinterested in the taper.tia jerry from MasjC1@aol.com Mon Mar 1 17:58:38 1999 Subject: Re: Powell Taper Please post away. Mark Cole from fiveside@net-gate.com Mon Mar 1 18:08:28 1999 (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA08031 for ;Mon, 1 Mar 1999 Subject: 2-Strip Quads To Rich Tyree and the ListJust today put the final varnish on the wraps of my first 2-strip. Quitean experience. Rich you are absolutely correct - it looks nice - except inthe secret places where I screwed up. And it feels like it will fish verywell. I did have problems planing/scraping the second set of sides but amupon the learning curve and believe the second effort next year will go muchbetter and will be much easier than the equivalent 4-stripper. The 2-stripfeels exactly the same as my 4-strip with the same taper. That answers aquestion I guess we all had.Mine is nodeless, by the way. I alternated some light and dark strips tohighlite rather then to hide the splices and it made an interesting effect.If you see an angler fishing with a zebra striped rod it's probably me.Thanks to you Rich for promoting a unique and interesting concept toenhance our craft. Bill from MasjC1@aol.com Mon Mar 1 18:09:05 1999 Subject: Re: Morgan Hand Mill - Speed Darryl, I just finished soaking, straightening and pressing nodes. At one point Ihada bad node and took my plane to it. The wet strip cut like butter. Iconsidered rough planing the strip but after looking at the bottom of myplaneI decided against it. It had, in just a few minutes, developed rust spots onthe sole. I figured the same thing would happen to my form. I'm impressed at how easier it is to work on the wet strips. The nodes getvery soft with about half the heat I had to use on the dry strips. It sounds like you are sold on the Morgan Mill. Have you run across anydrawback yet? I've been considering purchasing one but have waited until morepeople have used them to see if they have discovered any problems. Iwouldappreciate what ever information you can provide. Mark Cole from Craig.Naldrett@ibm.net Mon Mar 1 18:18:50 1999 (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA59060; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 00:18:47 GMT Subject: Re: Cane To Canada/Alberta Alan, yes I live in Calgary (former home of Theron Fleury), I havechecked into getting cane from Demarest but the customs/delivery costsconcerned me (general consensus was to send it U.S. post (airmail) &clear it myself).A fellow on the list (Ted Knott) put me onto a woodworking companyin Ontario which has 12' sticks @ $47.05 for 1 1/2 - 2" or $57.90 for 2- 2.5". The fellow I talked to said their cane guy will be in the shoptomorrow (he is a builder I understand) & I'll talk to him Tuesday toget more detail. The shop did tell me it is Demarest cane but he's notsure of the age, condition etc.Once I get more info I'll let you know what I find out & we couldconsider splitting an order (I'm looking for probably 3 culms of thelarger size for now), if we can save on shipping) or whatever. If youprefer to pursue this on your own let me know & I'll give you thecontact name, phone etc. that Ted send me.CheersCraig from tonkin@xtn.net Mon Mar 1 18:46:52 1999 Mon, 1 Mar 1999 19:50:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Powell Taper Please post the taper. It will be appreciated by everyone. Thoman, Brian wrote: If anyone's interested I had the opportunity to cast a 7 1/2 foot WaltonPowell taper this weekend at the Denver show (thanks again to MarkMetcalf).What a rocket! I'm a pathetic caster and was able to make the last ringinthe casting pool with absolutely no effort. If anyone's interested in thetaper I was able to mic the rod. Let me know and I'll post it. Brian ThomanThe Chattahoochee River Rod CompanyParker, Coloradohttp://www.bambooflyrods.com(303) 805-5733 from BambooRods@aol.com Mon Mar 1 19:39:34 1999 Subject: Straightening A question to the list...Where do the major reasons for non-straight sections come from? Is itanissue relating to proper binder tuning, strip prep, the culm itself etc.Your thoughts please. Which villan is the ringleader of the gang! doug from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Mon Mar 1 19:52:14 1999 ix14.ix.netcom.com via smap(V1.3) Subject: Re: Epon Hi Steve,I use some really big weights. I had a couple of 15 lb weights from an oldbarbell so I fixed a light rope and use one weight for each section. I usea "U" shaped wire (a partly straightened paper clip) on each end of theblank and a hook on the rope tied through the weight and make sure theweight hangs straight down. I have not found it straightens the rodappreciably. I have found that little things along the way accumulate tomake a straighter rod. I lace my blank before binding, then straighten itthen bind and straighten again. I also try and get the strips as straightas possible before and after planing. I find I have very little to no heatstraightning after glueing but not because of the weights. They may add alittle but mostly they keep everything straight while the epon cures. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 05:56 PM 2/28/99 -0800, Steve wrote:I used epon for the first time today. Whew, that stuff is thick! I didlike the open time compared to urac and clean-up doesn't seem to be abig problem. I don't know that having a whole lot of time to straighten a blank isgoing to be a plus for me. I have gotten the sections a lot straighterthan I did with urac but with the section still being pliable it seemsas though one should be able to get it dead straight. I straighten outone bend and invariably put in another. Kind of like trying tostraighten one area of a warm pretzel. I read where some of you have hung weights on strips that are curing.Does this help to straighten the strip? Ounces or pounds? Gluing up the fifth rod tomorrow. Each rod is still a vast learningexperience. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from anglport@con2.com Mon Mar 1 20:36:17 1999 Subject: Re: Straightening Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 21:10:16 -0500 From: Art Port Subject: Re: Straightening I vote for the binder. I can't believe that ANYTHING has as much effect onthe outcome of the gluing process. If you can turn the thing into a pretzelwhile it's wet and it'll dry that way, that's got to be the reason it comesout deformed when it does.Art ( Apparently you can't start a message with "Put me down for...) from Canerod72@aol.com Mon Mar 1 20:51:27 1999 Subject: pezon/michel taper Just the other day my boss was telling me about his favorite cane rod. Hesaidit was a Pezon/Michel 7' or 7'3'' 4wt. Does anyone know the taper for thisrod or at lesat the direction I should be looking in?Thanks in advance,Bill Felter from jfoster@gte.net Tue Mar 2 01:09:41 1999 Subject: Re: My Webb Page mac-creator="4D4F5353" apologies to Don Andersen for the misspelling of his name and not havinghim in the makers links.. all is well now..visit Don's site..nice fish..nice rods regards jerry from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Mar 2 01:45:26 1999 Subject: Re: Morgan Hand Mill It sounds like you are sold on the Morgan Mill. Have you run across any draw back yet? I've been considering purchasing one but have waiteduntil more people have used them to see if they have discovered any problems. I would appreciate what ever information you can provide. I like the Morgan Hand Mill a lot, but it's not for everyone. You have tobe making a fairly narrow range of rods per year for it to make senseto get one. If you will make less than about a dozen rods a year, the Mill costs too much. If you want to make over 100 rods a year, you will be better off with a powered beveling machine. The Morgan Hand Mill is for an experienced amateur that can sell a few rods here and there, or a richexperienced amateur making rods just for himself. I wouldn't have been able to afford getting one if I didn't sell a few rods first, and hopefullyI'll be able to sell a few more in the future. Short version of the answer to your question - No, no drawbacks, but berealistic in your expectations. Darryl from maxs@geocities.co.jp Tue Mar 2 08:01:15 1999 bysv01.geocities.co.jp (8.9.3+3.1W/3.7W) with ESMTP id XAA11189 for; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 23:00:58 +0900 (JST) mail.geocities.co.jp (1.3G-8.9.3/GeocitiesJ-3.0) with ESMTP id XAA21812for; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 23:01:06 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Straightening A question to the list...Where do the major reasons for non-straight sections come from? Isitanissue relating to proper binder tuning, strip prep, the culm itself etc.Your thoughts please. Which villan is the ringleader of the gang! doug Hi Doug, I want to refer to Pseudo Straightness as one of the reasons.My definition of Pseudo Straightness is that; Even if both side lines of one strip runs parallel, or look in the sameeven shape of straightness when it has a taper, power fibers of bambooare not straight at the center of a strip. It means that fibers are not lined up straight at the center of a strip.Imagine when a strip is sawed out of a culm which has a bend. Sidebecomes straight but fibers are not straight. This will also happen when we plane a strip with a slow bend with verysharp blade, especially at an internodal area and at near to the thinend of a strip. In worst case, fiber lines run like slash across thestrip. When this happens on all the six strips and it is where aferrule is mounted, it becames very hard to have a straight rod. Impossible to straighten it with even by heat.When fibers does not run straight at the center, it is hard for them tohold a power. To prevent this, slow bend at internodal area must be also straightenedas well as node area. After that, both sides of a strip must be evenly planed. We can evaluate how the planing work was done by looking at fiber lineson the flats of a completed rod. Max -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod from BThoman@neonsoft.com Tue Mar 2 09:55:57 1999 Subject: RE: Powell Taper Here is the taper for the Walton Powell 7 1/2 foot 6 weight. There werenoother markings on the rod except "A Walton Powell Rod". This rod cast tothe last ring the pool with no effort. The last ring was at least 45 - 50feet. A very powerful taper that takes little or no effort to cast. Note: The rod had a tung oil finish so I measured all three flats and tookthe average of them. Most were within .002 or .003 of each other butsomewere as much as a .015 difference. Also, only two strips matched nodesonthe butt section but all three tips were 2x2x2. One measurement fellundera guide wrap so I measured about 1/4 inch above the wrap. The ferrulesweremeasured above and below the ferrule station. Have fun! Brian ThomanThe Chattahoochee River Rod CompanyParker, Coloradohttp://www.bambooflyrods.com(303) 805-5733 0 .0735 .08410 .10115 .11320 .12725 .14330 .16035 .17340 .18845 .197 Measured above male ferrule. 45 .208 Measure below female ferrule.50 .22355 .24060 .24665 .26870 .28575 .30080 .312 Measure above handle. Assume the rest of the taper is thesame. from darrell01@netzero.net Tue Mar 2 11:23:39 1999 (206.175.104.74) Subject: Cortland Super Z ferrules boundary="=PMail:=_0005@@3JGvqEUm1FjC7qz28zOw" --=PMail:=_0005@@3JGvqEUm1FjC7qz28zOw Has anyone used these Cortland ferrules? They seem reasonable in price($35.00 for 2 male/1female pieces) and they look pretty good... Thanks Darrell --=PMail:=_0005@@3JGvqEUm1FjC7qz28zOw-- ________________________________________________________NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you?Get your FREE Internet Access and Email athttp://www.netzero.net/download.html from Fallcreek9@aol.com Tue Mar 2 11:24:24 1999 Subject: Fisher Sci List: Attempted to do business with Fisher and purchase some Dri- Ritedessicant. They have changed lately. The gig is they gave me the numberofthe co. who makes the material. I called them and they took my order. Fishersaid I am too small for an account (knew that) and that without anaccount,they could do no business with me. So, if you need somthing from them, call their cust service @ 1-800-766-7000and try to get a source. Meanwhile, the co. that makes Dri-Rite is WA Hammond, Zenia (sp?), OH,937- 376-2927. They were happy to take my order and were @ $6.70 perone- pound bottle of indicating, reuseable dessicant, Prod # 23001. Richard from Fallcreek9@aol.com Tue Mar 2 11:25:23 1999 Subject: Re: 2-Strip Quads In a message dated 3/1/99 6:16:50 PM Central Standard Time,fiveside@net- gate.com writes: from Ed.Estlow@co.hennepin.mn.us Tue Mar 2 11:41:25 1999 1999 17:39:34 UT 16-1998)) id86256728.0060DFFB ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 11:38:07 -0600 Subject: Re: 2-Strip Quads Bill, Regarding the nodeless construction of your two strip quad, was yourscarf jointangled across the enamel or from enamel to pith (am I being clear?)? Putanotherway, when you view your rod looking at the enamel surface of the strip, doyousee the scarf angle? Probably a rookie question on scarfing in general. Best regards,-Ed Estlow from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Mar 2 11:43:10 1999 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: PLEASE READ THIS, it's for your own good. I've been very busy at my real job since Christmas using emailcontinualy. My email for security reasons as I'm a programer isn'tautomaticaly downloaded to my local machine but instead stays on theSP'sLinux server. This way I can vet messages and attachments as sending outvirus with programs is considered bad form. There have been some messages on the list lately re. Happy99 worm andthat is what thismessage is about. I make a point of deleting all attachments I'm notexpecting so I didn't really take much notice of all the uuencodedmessagescoming from this list until the boss ;-)) got Happy99 last weekand I put 2 & 2 together. If you haven't yet checked for this littlesucker you really should because I've seen > 10 neferious attachemnts inthe last week alone, not just from this list but buisness also. I wouldestimate all were Happy99 worms. Apparently this is the first real worm of it's type so the old idea thatyou can't get a virus (it's not strictly speaking a virus but that'ssplitting hairs) via email is now incorrect. The address posted on the list last week is I think incorrectit is: http://www.symantec.com.avcenter/venc/data/happy99.worm.html It's easy to see if you have it. Well, I'm back to work. Hopefuly I'll be able to make some more shavingssoon. Tony /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb? A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from Turbotrk@aol.com Tue Mar 2 11:44:27 1999 Subject: straightening epon Ok list, I glued my first rod last night with the help of Rick Crenshaw. Weused his binder as mine is still under construction. My question is how tostraighten the tip after 24 hours of set time. How do you get that slightcurve out of the tip. I saw it when the glue was wet. Tried to fix it andmade it worse. Put weights on it and it is still there. I took the bindingthread off at 13 hours and tried to do it again. It is still there. What isthe next step? thanks in advancestuart millera rod builder from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Mar 2 12:11:45 1999 Subject: Crooked Blanks When I assemble the strips for glue up, I tape every 4 inches, makingsure the strips are going together straight. Then at glue up I bind rightover the tape. The tape doesn't let the strips slip past each other (causing the crookedness), and also doesn't allow the blank to twist.It isn't a cure-all for crooked blanks, but it has greatly reduced the crookedness in my blanks. Darryl from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Mar 2 12:22:15 1999 via smap (4.1) 10:25:13 PST Subject: RE: Cortland Super Z ferrules Darrell, I used some a while back. They require more material removal to fit then the Super Swiss, about .002 according to the catalogs. I just know I needed to do a lot of turning. They worked fine. If you have fit ferrules previous and have a system you use that works for you then they should be fine. If you are using a lathe to fit, then .002 is no problem. If you are doing it by hand it can be quite time consuming and more difficult to get an even reduction across the entire slide area of the male. The Super Swiss are of closer tolerances at about .001oversized, and have a nicer welt (my opinion). REC's new bar stock uniferrules will partically engage and require only minor fitting according to REC. I'm expecting some shortly and will know more. The Anglers Workshop Super Swiss ferrulesare pre-fit, and cost more because of this extra work they do. About $55 for a 2 tip set. Sorry to ramble. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Mar 2 12:30:36 1999 via smap (4.1) 10:32:47 PST Subject: RE: straightening epon You may already use this procedure, but something that has been discussed before on this list about straightening freshly bound sections is worth repeating. Find a flat surface, place the glued up blank on the surface and roll it back and forth using your fingers/palms to guide the rolling process. This will often give better results then trying to hand straighten in the free air. I've found it very helpful. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from peter@chickerell.u-net.com Tue Mar 2 12:39:23 1999 Subject: Classic Rods and Rodmakers boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0052_01BE64DB.C0835340" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01BE64DB.C0835340 Hello again everyone. Does anyone know if you can still get the book "Classic Rods and =Rodmakers" by Martin Keane. (that could be Keene or Caine, I am not =sure.) I was told that the book was out of print, but that in the USA, =they were considering re-publishing the book. I have heard many good =things about this book and would be interested to know if it is still =available. Thanks Peter. ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01BE64DB.C0835340 Hello again everyone. Does anyone know if you can still get the book = Rods and Rodmakers" by Martin Keane. (that could be Keene or Caine,= not sure.) I was told that the book was out of print, but that in the = were considering re-publishing the book. I have heard many good things = this book and would be interested to know if it is still =available. Thanks Peter. ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01BE64DB.C0835340-- from CALucker@aol.com Tue Mar 2 13:21:07 1999 Subject: Walton Powell Taper posted The taper seems odd to me.Are you sure the rod is really a Walton Powell?If it is an authentic Walton, then it is the product of a hurrendous glue job.Check the posted measurements -- especially the butt section. A Powellsawblade cannot cut compound jumps like that over such a short distance. Theproperties of a four inch diameter saw blade prevent such a taper. Perhaps re-mic' every inch across each facet. Don't average. If the charts of the data are still as eratic, then don't use the data toexpect to learn anything about Powell tapers. The posted data does not reveal anything about Powell tapers. Knowinghow aPowell saw works, the eratic data does not tell us how much wood thereis ateach point, it only tells us how thick the six strips ended up after gluing. Chris Lucker from anglport@con2.com Tue Mar 2 13:31:58 1999 Subject: Re: Cortland Super Z ferrules Darrell,Someone can correct me if my info is wrong, but I believe those are theSuper-Z ferrules that Cortland bought the rights to from Rodon Mfg someyears back. If so they're a fine ferrule but you'll spend LOTS O' timelapping them. They seemed to be about 1/64 apart in size when received!(I'm exaggerating here but I can tell you that after using Baily Woods'stock, there is one H--L of a big difference in the amount of lappingnecessary.) The quality is fine, the price seems good, all you must decideis how long you like to roll something in abrasives.Art At 09:23 AM 3/2/99, Darrell Lee wrote:Has anyone used these Cortland ferrules? They seem reasonable in price($35.00 for 2 male/1female pieces) and they look pretty good... Thanks Darrell from anglport@con2.com Tue Mar 2 13:42:29 1999 Subject: Re: Classic Rods and Rodmakers Peter,Awhile back you could buy a copy directly from Keane, @ Classic Rods and Tackle Co.PO Box 888, StockbridgeMA, 01262 That's how I got mine. I'm pretty sure he's self-publishing, so it shouldstill work.Good luck,Art At 06:37 PM 3/2/99 -0000, Peter McLeod wrote:Hello again everyone. "" by Martin Keane. (that could be Keene orCaine, I am not sure.) I was told that the book was out of print, but thatin the USA, they were considering re- publishing the book. I have heardmany good things about this book and would be interested to know if it isstill available. Thanks Peter. from rclarke@eou.edu Tue Mar 2 13:52:20 1999 11:55:36 -0800 "RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: RE: Cortland Super Z ferrules I really like the Anglers ferrules. Even with the extra cost, I think theyare worth it. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Cortland Super Z ferrules Darrell, I used some a while back. They require more material removal to fit then the Super Swiss, about .002 according to the catalogs. I just know I needed to do a lot of turning. They worked fine. If you have fit ferrules previous and have a system you use that works for you then they should be fine. If you are using a lathe to fit, then .002 is no problem. If you are doing it by hand it can be quite time consuming and more difficult to get an even reduction across the entire slide area of the male. The Super Swiss are of closer tolerances at about .001oversized, and have a nicer welt (my opinion). REC's new bar stock uniferrules will partically engage and require only minor fitting according to REC. I'm expecting some shortly and will know more. The Anglers Workshop Super Swiss ferrulesare pre-fit, and cost more because of this extra work they do. About $55 for a 2 tip set. Sorry to ramble. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from BThoman@neonsoft.com Tue Mar 2 13:54:41 1999 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Walton Powell Taper posted Mark Metcalf looked at the rod because the guy who was thinking aboutbuyingit wanted to know if the price was fair. He didn't question whether it wasan authentic Powell or not. So, I can only assume that it is. I measuredall three flats, twice, every five inches and averaged those to come upwiththe measurement I posted. Too bad I don't have access to the rod anymore. I'm not incredibly knowledgeable about older bamboo rods and have no ideahow Powell made his rods. Mark mentioned that as Walton got older hewasknown to have mixed up his nodes every once in a while. Not sure aboutthetaper, though. Brian -----Original Message-----From: CALucker@aol.com [SMTP:CALucker@aol.com]Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 1999 12:19 PM Subject: Walton Powell Taper posted The taper seems odd to me.Are you sure the rod is really a Walton Powell?If it is an authentic Walton, then it is the product of a hurrendous gluejob.Check the posted measurements -- especially the butt section. APowellsawblade cannot cut compound jumps like that over such a short distance.Theproperties of a four inch diameter saw blade prevent such a taper. Perhaps re-mic' every inch across each facet. Don't average. If the charts of the data are still as eratic, then don't use the data toexpect to learn anything about Powell tapers. The posted data does not reveal anything about Powell tapers. KnowinghowaPowell saw works, the eratic data does not tell us how much wood thereisateach point, it only tells us how thick the six strips ended up aftergluing. Chris Lucker from anglport@con2.com Tue Mar 2 14:19:22 1999 Subject: Staggering Any and all- I'm trying my first 3-piecer and have run into a problem with thestaggering spacing. I'm using a piece of cane that came from the upperpartof aculm and the nodes are approximately 15" apart. The sections will be30" long. In keeping with the no-cane-within-5"-of-the-tip-or- butt ruleI'mgoing to have to stagger a mere 1" or less (more like 7/8 or maybe even3/4!). Is that sufficient separation to even consider them staggered, orwill the rod be exactly the opposite of nodeless--all node?(Bogarts and Finks need not reply. I'm not ready to go nodeless yet!)Thanks in advance for any opinions, prejudices, knowledge or other pearls.Art from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Tue Mar 2 14:24:03 1999 Subject: Re: Classic Rods and Rodmakers I asked Marty a few months back and he has none of the 1st editions forsale. I believe he said there is a 2nd edition coming out but may not beavailable yet. I haven't checked. Regards, Bob On Tue, 2 Mar 1999, Art Port wrote: Peter,Awhile back you could buy a copy directly from Keane, @ Classic Rods and Tackle Co.PO Box 888, StockbridgeMA, 01262 That's how I got mine. I'm pretty sure he's self-publishing, so it shouldstill work.Good luck,Art At 06:37 PM 3/2/99 -0000, Peter McLeod wrote:Hello again everyone. "" by Martin Keane. (that could be Keene orCaine, I am not sure.) I was told that the book was out of print, but thatin the USA, they were considering re- publishing the book. I have heardmany good things about this book and would be interested to know if itisstill available. Thanks Peter. from flyfortrout@hotmail.com Tue Mar 2 15:01:05 1999 Tue, 02 Mar 1999 13:00:32 PST Subject: Nodes vs. Nodeless I'm new to this whole process and I'm curious on what is meant by these two terms and the pro's and con's of both. from what I have read so far the strips are staggered so that nodes from each strip don't line up....I'm assuming this is a rod with nodes (if I'm wrong, tell me). What would be a "nodeless" rod and what do you do differently to make it? Sincerely, Greg Holland ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from santos@esinet.net Tue Mar 2 15:12:11 1999 16:12:08 -0500 Subject: reed Does anybody know if Reed Curry is still on the list? Anybody happento have his address or phone number? Thanks for any help. Carlos Santos from Ed.Estlow@co.hennepin.mn.us Tue Mar 2 15:17:25 1999 1999 21:15:33 UT 16-1998)) id86256728.0074A7C6 ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 15:14:11 -0600 Subject: Re: Nodes vs. Nodeless Literally cutting the nodes out of the raw bamboo culms or strips andsplicingthem together with a scarf joint, then planing the taper. You might look updescriptions of the technique on Jerry Foster's Rodmakers website. Best regards,-Ed Estlow "Greg Holland" on 03/02/99 03:00:32 PM Please respond to flyfortrout@hotmail.com Subject: Nodes vs. Nodeless I'm new to this whole process and I'm curious on what is meant by thesetwo terms and the pro's and con's of both. from what I have read so farthe strips are staggered so that nodes from each strip don't lineup....I'm assuming this is a rod with nodes (if I'm wrong, tell me).What would be a "nodeless" rod and what do you do differently to makeit? Sincerely, Greg Holland ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from rfairfie@cisco.com Tue Mar 2 15:45:30 1999 SMTP id NAA16136; Subject: Re: Straightening Doug, you ask a question near and dear to my heart. To make a loooongstory short, on mylast butt section, I straightened the internodal sections using heat beforedoing coarseplaning. This was done after the nodes were straightened. The resultingcoarse planedstrips, after heat treating, were straight, and after fine planing, the onlyreal curvature Ihad in the strips was from the enamel side towards the apex opposite theenamel side. Whenglued up, it was easy to roll the section and get it pretty straight. I don'thave a binder,so that may very well have an impact, as well. I'm sure that I putstresses in the boundsection that relieved themselves during cure and thermal set (I useNyatex). Good luck,Roger At 11:01 PM 3/2/99 +0900, Max Satoh wrote:A question to the list...Where do the major reasons for non-straight sections come from? Isitanissue relating to proper binder tuning, strip prep, the culm itself etc.Your thoughts please. Which villan is the ringleader of the gang! doug Hi Doug, I want to refer to Pseudo Straightness as one of the reasons.My definition of Pseudo Straightness is that; Even if both side lines of one strip runs parallel, or look in the sameeven shape of straightness when it has a taper, power fibers of bambooare not straight at the center of a strip. It means that fibers are not lined up straight at the center of a strip.Imagine when a strip is sawed out of a culm which has a bend. Sidebecomes straight but fibers are not straight. This will also happen when we plane a strip with a slow bend with verysharp blade, especially at an internodal area and at near to the thinend of a strip. In worst case, fiber lines run like slash across thestrip. When this happens on all the six strips and it is where aferrule is mounted, it becames very hard to have a straight rod. Impossible to straighten it with even by heat.When fibers does not run straight at the center, it is hard for them tohold a power. To prevent this, slow bend at internodal area must be also straightenedas well as node area. After that, both sides of a strip must be evenly planed. We can evaluate how the planing work was done by looking at fiber lineson the flats of a completed rod. Max -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Tue Mar 2 15:56:25 1999 (5.5.2407.0) Subject: binder I just got the new Bellinger binder and it is everything that D. Whitheadsaid it is. thesections come out real straight right off the binder. from rcurry@ttlc.net Tue Mar 2 17:39:35 1999 (SMTPD32-4.07) id A7059000E2; Tue, 02 Mar 1999 18:40:53 EST Subject: Re: reed Carlos et al,"Reports of my demise..."I changed my ISP, my new email address is rcurry@ttlc.net.Best regards,Reed Carlos Santos wrote: Does anybody know if Reed Curry is still on the list? Anybodyhappento have his address or phone number? Thanks for any help. Carlos Santos from hhholland@erols.com Tue Mar 2 17:42:55 1999 Subject: Re: Classic Rods and Rodmakers boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004E_01BE64DB.E91C1620" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BE64DB.E91C1620 Peter,The book is certainly one of the classics from a guy who has probably =handled and cast more fine rods than anyone alive. Don't expect much in =the way of pictures, but there is MUCH informative text. It has been =out of print for quite some time now, and Marty VERY rarely seems to get=hold of a copy. I would think that he has a waiting list for any that =do turn up. He says he's working on an update, but it doesn't seem to =be proceeding very quickly -- I wouldn't hold my breath. Dealers who =specialize in this sort of thing sometimes have copies. They tend to be =expensive -- from around $60 to $150 or so. A couple of dealers at the =January shows had copies, and they were at the upper end of the price =range. Unfortunately, I don't remember who they were. Try searching on = Best wishes,Hank H. -----Original Message-----From: Peter McLeod Date: Tuesday, March 02, 1999 4:43 PMSubject: Classic Rods and Rodmakers Hello again everyone. Does anyone know if you can still get the book "Classic Rods and =Rodmakers" by Martin Keane. (that could be Keene or Caine, I am not =sure.) I was told that the book was out of print, but that in the USA, =they were considering re-publishing the book. I have heard many good =things about this book and would be interested to know if it is still =available. Thanks Peter. ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BE64DB.E91C1620 Peter,The book is certainly one of the classics= who has probably handled and cast more fine rods than anyone = expect much in the way of pictures, but there is MUCH informative = has been out of print for quite some time now, and Marty VERY rarely = on the Internet is about all I can advise. Best = -----Original = Peter McLeod <peter@chickerell.u-net.com= rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Tuesday, March 02, 1999 4:43 PMSubject: Classic Rods= RodmakersHello again everyone. "Classic Rods and Rodmakers" by Martin Keane. (that could = or Caine, I am not sure.) I was told that the book was out of print, = that in the USA, they were considering re-publishing the book. I = many good things about this book and would be interested to know if = still available. Thanks =Peter. ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BE64DB.E91C1620-- from freaner@gte.net Tue Mar 2 19:10:19 1999 Subject: Re: Classic Rods and Rodmakers At 6:38 PM -0200 3/2/99, Hank Holland wrote about Re: Classic Rods andRodmakersA couple of dealers at the January shows had copies, and they were atthe upper >end of the price range. Unfortunately, I don't remember whothey were. Try >searching on the Internet is about all I can advise.Best wishes, Hank H. There's a flyfisher in Idaho, I think, named George Jacox who deals in rareand hard to find books - you could try to contact him at Claude from robert.kope@cwix.com Tue Mar 2 19:14:38 1999 with SMTP id forRODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 01:14:05 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Staggering Art, I'm also starting a 7 1/2' 3 piece, and am dealing with node spacing. Iwould suggest that you abandon the Garrison or spiral staggering patternyouare considering and use either 2x2x2 or 3x3 spacing. If you really have atleast 15" internodes and are careful, you can put the nodes on one set ofstrips inside the ferrules on the mid or inside the ferrule and tiptop onthe tip section. This will leave you with one exposed node in the center ofthe section on that set of strips. You can then get up to 5" spacing forthe 2x2x2 pattern or 7 1/2" spacing for the 3x3 pattern. Your other choice is use a culm with longer internodes. Considering thecost of bamboo relative to the other ingredients in a rod, it's not anextravagance to split another culm. Besides, you can always build anotherrod out of these strips. Just my $.02 -----Original Message----- Subject: Staggering Any and all- I'm trying my first 3-piecer and have run into a problem with thestaggering spacing. I'm using a piece of cane that came from the upperpartof aculm and the nodes are approximately 15" apart. The sections will be30" long. In keeping with the no-cane-within-5"-of-the-tip-or- butt ruleI'mgoing to have to stagger a mere 1" or less (more like 7/8 or maybe even3/4!). Is that sufficient separation to even consider them staggered, orwill the rod be exactly the opposite of nodeless--all node?(Bogarts and Finks need not reply. I'm not ready to go nodeless yet!)Thanks in advance for any opinions, prejudices, knowledge or otherpearls.Art from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Mar 2 19:28:30 1999 (8.8.5/8.7.3) withESMTP id TAA23703 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 199919:30:25 -0600 Subject: Re: Classic Rods and Rodmakers You might also try Anglers Art 1-800-484- 1020Tony Claude and Ellen Freaner wrote: At 6:38 PM -0200 3/2/99, Hank Holland wrote about Re: Classic Rods andRodmakersA couple of dealers at the January shows had copies, and they were atthe upper >end of the price range. Unfortunately, I don't remember whothey were. Try >searching on the Internet is about all I can advise.Best wishes, Hank H. There's a flyfisher in Idaho, I think, named George Jacox who deals inrareand hard to find books - you could try to contact him at Claude from cattanac@wmis.net Tue Mar 2 20:56:25 1999 t2.wmis.net (8.8.5/SCO5) withSMTP id CAA09506; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 02:56:18 GMT "'rodmakers'" Subject: Re: binder I would very much agree with the other comments about Al's binder - Ihave one in the basement for doing some pictures - FYI - If you are a userof epoxy and want to not have your binder look like mine wrap the supportarms with the teflon tape that is used by plumbers from BThoman@neonsoft.com Tue Mar 2 21:02:55 1999 Subject: Nickel Silver Tubing I need to find some tubing to make screw type reel seats. Dave LeClair isout of the diameter needed and does not intend on ordering more as it wasaone- time purchase. He said the size is .730 inside diameter. Does anybodyhave any? Anyone know where to purchase some? I'm going to try REC toseeif they have any short sections left over. If anyone makes the screw typereel seats and knows where to get something that will suffice, it wouldbemuch appreciated. Thanks for any help. Brian ThomanThe Chattahoochee River Rod CompanyParker, Coloradohttp://www.bambooflyrods.com303.805.5733 from LECLAIR123@aol.com Tue Mar 2 21:37:39 1999 Subject: Re: Cortland Super Z ferrules Darrell,I've never used them, but the guys that have, saythe males are machined too large diameter and you have tospend hours fitting them. There are a lot better ferrules out there. Dave L. from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Tue Mar 2 21:47:40 1999 (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP Wed, 3 Mar 1999 03:47:08 +0000 Subject: Re: scraper plane Gee, Jon. How can you afford to ever use your time to make a rod??? George-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: scraper plane We occasionally buy and sell the original 212. Last one went for 2,200. Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod Company)140 E. Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) 277-4510www.munrorodco.com-----Original Message----- From: Coffey, Patrick W 'SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us' Date: Monday, March 01, 1999 10:39 AMSubject: RE: scraper plane and original Stanley, if you can find one, cost about ten time as much asthe lie-nielsen ----------From: Seth Steinzor[SMTP:SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us] Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 7:20 AM Subject: scraper plane I've finally gotten down to final planing, and have been using ahand-held sandvik scraper blade for those final few thousandths, butitsawfully hard on the fingers and I'm shopping for a scraper holder orscraper plane. I've seen quite a few references to the Stanley 212, butI can't seem to find one - the only thing I run across is a Lie-Nielsenreproduction which looks beautiful but is WAY too expensive. Anybodyknow where a bona fide 212 or its affordable equivalent can be had? Isthe Stanley 80 or the Veritas scraper holder suitable for this purpose? from darrell01@netzero.net Tue Mar 2 22:00:41 1999 (206.175.101.98) Subject: Where do I find a wick for an alcohol lamp? boundary="=PMail:=_0000@@AnSsRDqZ5wlJtzWw9kl1" --=PMail:=_0000@@AnSsRDqZ5wlJtzWw9kl1 I'm in Los Angeles so I'm sure I'll find it but I need to know where tolook.. candle store, drug store, where? --=PMail:=_0000@@AnSsRDqZ5wlJtzWw9kl1-- ________________________________________________________NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you?Get your FREE Internet Access and Email athttp://www.netzero.net/download.html from chris@artistree.com Tue Mar 2 22:56:42 1999 Subject: Re: Epon Epoxy mac-creator="4D4F5353" Steve,They did the same thing to me last year. Sure made me feel special. By theway, the pressurized air is great for cleaning out the inside of the formsso they will close together tightly.--Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com Steve wrote: Hello All, I came back from running the wife around today (she broke her toe atwork) and found a box from Miller Stephenson chemical company on theporch. I had already received the Epon and have been using it so I waspuzzled as to what might be in the box. I thought perhaps they had senttwo orders in confusion. Upon opening the box I find they have sent me a catalog and four more oftheir products free to evaluate for possible future orders. There wasprobably 25-30 dollars worth of samples. A two part epoxy, 907 I think it was the name of it, it is in tubes. Acan of a foaming cleaning agent. I'll have to keep the wife away from itor she will want me to buy it. A can of pressurized air, for removingdust etc. and a can of releasing agent (anyone ever use this?) All in all if this is standard procedure it really offsets the cost ofthe initial purchase price of $40. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from rambo2_98@yahoo.com Wed Mar 3 09:08:39 1999 1999 07:08:59 PST Subject: lathe help Thanks to all those who offered lathe suggestions. I got lucky andfound a local company run by a young 79 year old gentlemen who buysout shops (metal and wood). He had seven SB lathes and I settled on a10" quick change (SB calls it a 10K), bench, 3 & 4 jaw chucks and aslew of accessories for $800. I've more in mind than ferrule mountingand cork dressing and this will do nicely! Jeff _________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Mar 3 09:29:55 1999 anglport@con2.com Subject: Re: Re: Classic Rods and Rodmakers Does anyone know what a first addition in mint condition would be worth?Bret from anglport@con2.com Wed Mar 3 10:09:12 1999 Subject: Re: lathe help Jeff,One-a-those, I got!! It'll do more than I'll ever know how to do! I thinkyou probably got a great deal on a great piece of machinery. A"transmission" beats the h*ll out of change gears for thread cutting. Ifyou need a book to assist you in getting started, Lindsay Publishing has aSouth Bend reprint for a very reasonable price, way below what S.B. willrob you for it.Lindsay has a site @: http://www.lindsaybks.com/Good luck with it,Art from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Wed Mar 3 12:16:15 1999 0500 Subject: Re: binder I must have missed a previous post...how much is the binder and where can I find out more info about it? If it helps keep sections straight and without twisting, I am interested. Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: binder Author: at Tcpgate I just got the new Bellinger binder and it is everything that D. Whitheadsaid it is. the sections come out real straight right off the binder. from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Wed Mar 3 12:28:11 1999 mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net(InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Planing forms boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001C_01BE6579.98E141A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BE6579.98E141A0 If you are determined to make your own planing forms, I would like to =suggest what I have done to accomplish this task. I made arrandements to=take a machinest course at our local Vo-Tech school at night, once a =week, during the winter. If the instructor is anywhere as good as the =one I had he can help you with setting up and learning how to use a =milling machine. Also the dimensions from Garison's book on the planing =form were used and the purchase of 3/4" x 3/4" cold rolled steel was =even secured by the instructor. I constructed the form using =differential screws which to this day are working out quite well. Had =only one problem in which I twisted off a carbide tap and then got to =use the EDM machine to burn it out without even disturbing the threads =that had already been started. Of course we had to modify the EDM to =accept a 6' section of steel but again if you are lucky to have a good =instructor, which most of them are, these problems are easily =accomplished. If you want to discuss this further please use the list =and I'll do my best to help.Jack ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BE6579.98E141A0 If you are determined to makeyour = forms, I would like to suggest what I have done to accomplish this task. = arrandements to take a machinest course at our local Vo-Tech school at = once a week, during the winter. If the instructor is anywhere as good as = I had he can help you with setting up and learning how to use a milling = Also the dimensions from Garison's book on the planing form were used = purchase of 3/4" x 3/4" cold rolled steel was even secured by = instructor. I constructed the form using differential screws which to = are working out quite well. Had only one problem in which I twisted off = carbide tap and then got to use the EDM machine to burn it out without = disturbing the threads that had already been started. Of course we had = the EDM to accept a 6' section of steel but again if you are lucky to = good instructor, which most of them are, these problems are easily = If you want to discuss this further please use the list and I'll do my = help.Jack ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BE6579.98E141A0-- from chris@artistree.com Wed Mar 3 14:35:48 1999 Subject: REC UniFerrule (was:Cortland Super Z) mac-creator="4D4F5353" Thought it might be of some help to pass on a few of my experiences withREC'snew UniFerrules if you intend to use them. 1) They require VERY little lapping. Be extra careful not to over do it. 2) Since they don't require much lapping you might consider chamferingtheedge of the male just a hair. This ensures that when inserting the maleintothe female it does not dig or catch on the inner walls of the female. Thismight happen if the person fishing the rod does not insert the male intothefemale perfectly straight or in a hurried fashion (there's a hatch on!) Ispoke to REC about this and they are considering chamfering the edge. 3) The ferrule tabs are already very thin so you need to be extra careful ifyou intend to dress those as well. Overall, I found the quality of these ferrules to be very high and haven'thadany problems with them while in use on the stream. --Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com mcdowellc@lanecc.edu wrote: Darrell, ....REC's new bar stock uniferrules will partically engageand require only minor fitting according to REC. I'm expecting someshortly and will know more.... from thramer@presys.com Wed Mar 3 15:18:22 1999 0000 Subject: Whitehead Beveler I have a Whitehead beveler for sale in original packing crate. Used buttight, comes with three cutters. Contact me off list if interested.A.J.Thramerthramer@presys.com I know, I know from GeraldB@Pennwell.com Wed Mar 3 15:22:57 1999 (5.5.2448.0) Subject: RE: Planing forms Jack - You're idea for VoTech echoes another's earlier sentiment along the sameline. I think this is an excellent plan. If I wasn't so far down the line onmy current forms I'd have taken the suggestion. Who knows, maybe I'llbungup this set and HAVE to! Hope not. Gerald from peter@chickerell.u-net.com Wed Mar 3 18:52:48 1999 Subject: Martin Keane "Classic Rods and Rod Makers" boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01BE65D9.2B574200" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BE65D9.2B574200 To All, A big Thankyou to everyone who took the trouble to respond to my enquiry=about this book. I had hoped that the book might still be in print and=obtainable at a reasonable price. Perhaps a 2nd edition might come out =in the near future. Regards Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BE65D9.2B574200 To All, A big Thankyou to everyone whotook = to respond to my enquiry about this book. I had hoped that the book = be in print and obtainable at a reasonable price. Perhaps a 2nd edition = come out in the near future. Regards =Peter ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BE65D9.2B574200-- from drinkr@voicenet.com Wed Mar 3 20:35:42 1999 0000 (207.103.143.37) Subject: Dell Coppock boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01BE65BD.2511CB20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BE65BD.2511CB20 If anyone know Dell Coppocks whereabouts please let me know . I havesomecork rings waiting and haven't been able to reach him through E- mail forthepast few weeks. Thanks . Dave Rinker ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BE65BD.2511CB20 = cork rings waiting and haven't been able to reach him through E-mail for = Rinker ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BE65BD.2511CB20-- from thramer@presys.com Wed Mar 3 21:04:59 1999 Subject: Whitehead beveler The Whitehead beveler is in good sound shape, it comes with threecutters and the original crate from Mr. Whitehead. It has served me verywell but has been replaced with a beveler(not mill) of my own design.The cost is $900 US and I will ship it in the lower 48 for that price. A.J.Thramer(541)484-9162 from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Mar 3 21:11:41 1999 Subject: Re: lathe help In a message dated 3/3/99 7:13:42 AM Pacific Standard Time,rambo2_98@yahoo.com writes: Jeff,Sounds like you got yourself a heck of a buy. That SB10k should work out just fine for you. My SB 9in. tool roomlathe works great for me. Dave LeClair from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Mar 3 21:24:50 1999 Subject: Re: Where do I find a wick for an alcohol lamp? Darrell,If you can't find a wick, let me know, I've got a halfdozen. I'll send you one. Dave LeClair from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Wed Mar 3 22:53:27 1999 (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP Thu, 4 Mar 1999 04:52:54 +0000 , Subject: Re: Re: Classic Rods and Rodmakers My first edition, first printing ( from Just Good Books last year) was $165including $5 for postage...and it isn't mint (I think they graded it as"very good", I would have graded it as "very good" with a "good" dustjacket). George Bourke -----Original Message----- owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu ;anglport@con2.com rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Classic Rods and Rodmakers Does anyone know what a first addition in mint condition would beworth?Bret from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Wed Mar 3 22:56:02 1999 (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP Thu, 4 Mar 1999 04:55:30 +0000 Subject: Re: lathe help There is also a Dennis Armstrong (in WA, I believe) who sells them for $8including postage. Look for his periodic posts on rec.crafts.metalworkingor at the Darex website classifieds (http://www.darex.com). Usual disclaimers regarding financial interest apply. George Bourke-----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: lathe help Jeff,One-a-those, I got!! It'll do more than I'll ever know how to do! I thinkyou probably got a great deal on a great piece of machinery. A"transmission" beats the h*ll out of change gears for thread cutting. Ifyou need a book to assist you in getting started, Lindsay Publishing has aSouth Bend reprint for a very reasonable price, way below what S.B. willrob you for it.Lindsay has a site @: http://www.lindsaybks.com/Good luck with it,Art from mschaffer@mindspring.com Thu Mar 4 04:40:56 1999 Subject: Re: Lathe help Jeff,Once you get your new 'toy', a couple of things you should look into astime/money permits. First, a Jacobs chuck with a morse taper to fit in thetail stock of the 10K, then, later, a turret type tool holder to fit thecompound rest (assuming you will be doing some metal work also).Both of these accessories will come in very handy both in convenience andintime saving.Feel free to write me off list if you wish, Docmschaffer@mindspring.com from seanmcs@ar.com.au Thu Mar 4 05:58:46 1999 Subject: Rod Building Links Anyone know what happened to Rod Building Links. It had a lot of usefulsites. Sean McSharry from rambo2_98@yahoo.com Thu Mar 4 06:41:39 1999 1999 04:42:34 PST Subject: Re: lathe help 611 Machine Sales, Inc.1365 Industrial Blvd.Southampton, PA 18966 Al Hernberg 215-355-9844 Good Luck! ---Flysguys@aol.com wrote: Could you let me know who the gentlman is? I have a sheldon lathethat I needsome items for. Guy S _________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from saltwein@swbell.net Thu Mar 4 07:56:45 1999 HAA12062 Subject: delamination Had a disheartening experience this morning. I had glued my first blankwith epon on Sunday and was trying to do a little heat straighteningtoday. I was working in the tip end of the butt section with mild heat(I could place the palm of my hand on the area after heating) and whileputting some pressure on the end the last two inches of a throughsection delaminated. There was a little crack and they let go. Did I try to work on the section too soon? Can one use heat at all onEpon? Luckily I think I will be able to clean and reglue the area fairlyeasily. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from gl@msrr.dmso.mil Thu Mar 4 08:49:27 1999 triton.dmso.mil (8.8.5/8.7.3)with SMTP id JAA16800 for ; Thu, 4 Mar Subject: glue (again) has anyone used "elmer's carpenters glue for exterior use" for splices. i'dlike to use something that requires no mixing, if feasible. tks.-------------------- gary mischcdr, usn (ret.) from jackdale@uswest.net Thu Mar 4 09:01:49 1999 Subject: Re: Martin Keane "Classic Rods and Rod Makers" A67679AE798D5B161F1A3DDA" --------------A67679AE798D5B161F1A3DDA Peter,An update. I sent you the wrong URL for ABE Book Search. The correctone is http://www.abebooks.com. The nice thing about brain damage isthat you rarely miss it.Jack Dale Peter McLeod wrote: To All, A big Thankyou to everyone who took the trouble to respond tomy enquiry about this book. I had hoped that the book might still bein print and obtainable at a reasonable price. Perhaps a 2nd editionmight come out in the near future. Regards Peter --------------A67679AE798D5B161F1A3DDA Peter, Thenice thing aboutbrain damage is that you rarely miss it.Jack Dale Peter McLeod wrote: big Thankyou to everyone who took the trouble to respond to my enquiryabout this book. I had hoped that the book might still be in print andobtainable at a reasonable price. Perhaps a 2nd edition might come out Peter --------------A67679AE798D5B161F1A3DDA-- from GeraldB@Pennwell.com Thu Mar 4 09:29:47 1999 (5.5.2448.0) Subject: File/stone the steel? Ok, that was corny... Bought the steel yesterday and had it cut in two 6'sections. Now I'm confused. I've read Penrose and Howell. They have divergentopinionsand I need others to weigh in so I might determine what my next actionsshould be (or should not be). Penrose says to file the facing sufaces and Howell says specifically not tofile but instead stone them so that the burrs are gone. What to do? I knowIneed surfaces that mate flush. Does filing do that much damage to the skinof the steel? Thanks in advance. Please, reply to list as I'm surely not the only one withthis on my mind. Gerald from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Mar 4 09:45:28 1999 Thu, 4 Mar 1999 09:42:52 -0600 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: File/stone the steel? Gerald, I filed mine. Seemed to work out okay. Stoning seemed like it wouldtakeforever. But I would not file Tom Penrose's way. Instead of draw filingwiththe file perpendicular to bars, I used a 14" (the larger the better) mill fileto which I attached a handle on one side - laid diagonally across the formssothat as much of the length of the file as possible was touching the steel. Thisis Wayne Cattanach's suggestion. Heck, below is Wayne's post on thissubject from some time ago. He says it better than I ever couldHarry Following is quoted. Hope you don't mind Wayne!! PUSH - PULLAs more and more become involved with the craft of bamboo rodmakingthemore and better ideas fall out. Such is the case with final planing forms.The current accepted standard is an improved push - pull adjustmentmethod.The system breaks down to three elements located at each adjustmentstation.The elements are a setscrew, dowel pin, and bolt. To start, the formhalvesare drilled to accept the dowel pin. This holds the forms in alignment bothlengthwise as well as holds the surfaces flush with each other. Then tooneside of the dowel pin one form half is drilled and tapped to accept athreaded device. When tightened this thread device acts to push the formsapart. On the opposite side of the dowel pin a hole is drilled through thefirst form half and the second form half is drilled and tapped for a secondthread device that when tightened acts to pull the forms together.I have seen and used this adjustment system on a couple of differentforms.One used a setscrew and a socket head capscrew. The second used two hexheadbolts. My preference is the first using a setscrew and socket headcapscrew.The reason for this is simple. I touch my fingers to the edge of the formswhen planing to stabilize the plane. The first combination is softer on thefinger tips. Now there is nothing wrong with the for in the secondillustration. It's just the bolts used that I have a problem with. Bumpingthe sharper corners of the hex head bolts with the finger tips can hurt.There is a simple fix. Just change the bolts.Dimensionally the adjustment system is loose ended. The thread devicesanddowel pins can be either 1/4" or 5/16" and the centerline spacing can beeither 1/2" - 9/16". And it doesn't matter which side of the dowel pin thepush or pull is on as long as it is consistent throughout the form.Adjusting the push - pull forms is as simple as any. First do a quick checkwith the depth gauge to see if overall the forms need to open or close.Thenback off whichever thread device that needs loosening to allow thatmovement. Do this the length of the forms. If the forms need to close, backall the push devices out a few turns. If the forms need to open then backout all the pull devices. Then starting at one end, adjust the individualstations. Push or pull the forms to the desired dimension and lock in theadjustment with the other thread device by bringing it up snug but nottight. Continue to the next station following up the last adjustment with acheck of all stations. Readjusting as needed. FINE TUNINGOne of the keys to accurate dimensions is having each of the involvedtools at their finest. As for the planing forms this means the two surfacesare flat and the `V' is a correct 60 degree angle and burr free. Thefollowing technique works for new forms as well as used. With new formsitwill assure their accuracy. On used forms nicks and chatters fromscrapingcan be removed.To prepare the forms they first should be dismantled and cleanedthoroughlyof any debris using a soft wire brush or stiff paintbrush. Thenreassembledwith the inner faces seated, set them on the workbench. To monitor theprogress coat the faces of the forms with either lay-out die or a coloredmarker.Two files are used, a flat mill and triangle mill, both receive someadapting before use. For surfacing, a flat mill file 12" to 14" in lengthworks best. To make the filing easier a handle is added. However, not asonemight think. To avoid rounding the form surface the file needs to be usedasparallel to the forms as possible. The conventional file handle preventsthis from happening. Instead a block of wood can be mounted to one of thefaces of the file just below the teeth where the file is smooth. Thissmootharea is not hardened and can be drilled and counter bored for a wood screwto hold the wood block handle. Counter bore until the screw head isrecessed. Then the normal handle is bent up slightly to get it out of theway.A 6" mill triangle file is used on the `V'. For a handle cut a piece of1/4" nylon or plexiglass to the same width as the assembled forms and 5"orso in length. To attach the file to the handle epoxy glue it down thecenterline of the width of the handle. The precaution here is to be sure thetwo surfaces are squeezed together avoiding excess glue canting the fileoffangle with the handle. Again bend the normal handle up slightly.Besides the files you will need a file card or brush to clean the flatfile. A toothbrush works well to clean the triangle file. And it would bebest to have a paint brush handy to whisk the filings from the forms.Finally, as much as I discourage the use of gloves while making rods, thisis one of those times where a pair of cloth jersey gloves will protect thehands and not get in the way.The surfacing of the forms is done first. Lay the file on the forms asparallel as possible, having the front of the file just over hang the edgeof the forms and the rear of the file just over hang the opposite edge. Fileforward with one hand on the handle and the other hand placing a lightamount of down pressure at the midpoint of the file. Take a few passeswiththis file position and then alternate the file so it over hangs the oppositeedges from before(forming an `X' pattern) and take a few passes with thisnew file position. The file will need to be cleaned after just a few passesand cleaning the surface of the forms will help make the filing go faster.After a few passes inspect the forms for progress. With new forms acoupleof things might be seen. If the forms weren't surfaced after assembly youmight see removal at just the middle or at just the edges. This is commondue to the inaccuracies of steel manufacturing. Normally if one surfacecontacts at the middle first the opposite surface will contact the edgesfirst. Also check for flatness using a straight edge. Filing should continueuntil the entire surface evidences file wear. Both sides are surfacedbeforeattention is focused at the `V'.Before the second phase it is recommended that the sharp edges thatwerejust created be softened. Use the flat mill file and chamfer the fourcorners of the forms. The reason for this is that in the next filing thefile will be pulled down the forms with the thumb and first finger restingon these corners for a guide. If they are sharp or have burrs these fingersare sure to suffer the consequences.If a triangle file is examined closely, it becomes obvious that the cornersdon't come to a point but are instead flattened. To compensate for this theforms need to be opened enough so that the faces of the file contact thefaces of the `V'. Perhaps the most accurate method to accomplish this istoset this gap using a set of feeler gauges and to adjust station to station.A feeler gauge thickness of from .060" to .070" is needed. The key to usingfeeler gauges is to have the same resistance to travel at each location.A general statement is that the triangle file is PULLED the length of theforms starting at the deepest end. But beyond that there are a few finepoints. After the file is placed in the `V' rest the middle finger of theright hand on it to hold it in position. Then a visual inspection of thedistance between the form surface and the lower surface of the handle ismade to assure that the distance on each side is the same. If it isn't theit needs to be corrected. Finally with the left thumb and first finger pinchthe side of the forms and the handle and pull forward. After each pass thefile and the `V' should be whisk clean and the `V' should be inspected forprogress. Remember that with each pass the `V' is being filed deeper and,especially on the tip side, that too much filing might not allow the formsto adjust to the required numbers. A compromise would be to bring thesurface of the `V' to a 50 present finish. That is 50 present of the surfaceof the `V' shows evidence of filing. Proceed with caution. Gerald Buckley wrote: Ok, that was corny... Bought the steel yesterday and had it cut in two 6'sections. Now I'm confused. I've read Penrose and Howell. They have divergentopinionsand I need others to weigh in so I might determine what my next actionsshould be (or should not be). Penrose says to file the facing sufaces and Howell says specifically nottofile but instead stone them so that the burrs are gone. What to do? Iknow Ineed surfaces that mate flush. Does filing do that much damage to theskinof the steel? Thanks in advance. Please, reply to list as I'm surely not the only onewiththis on my mind. Gerald from FishYarn@aol.com Thu Mar 4 09:50:12 1999 Subject: Refinishing Bamboo Fly Rods Hi, I was wonder which varnishes, polishes and thread folks prefer for theirBamboo rod work. I have a copy of Mr. Sinclair's book and have the FineBambooFly Rod on order. Unfortunately, I can't find the polishes Mr. Sinclairsuggests locally and there are soooo many varnishes to chose from. Thread wise, I currently have some 2/0 Gudebrod silk. Thanks for the help. Jim LoweJivita@aol.comThe Bamboo Price Recordhttp://members.aol.com/fishyarn/pricerecord.htmlThe Pish Page http://members.aol.com/jivita/PishPage.htmlThe Berkeley Eskrima Club http://EkaliArnis/BEC.html from rrappe@wirelessnorth.com Thu Mar 4 12:26:43 1999 RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Refinishing Bamboo Fly Rods Jim, This is one of those Ford vs. Chevy debates on which "reasonable peoplecanreasonably differ". For whatever it is worth, here's my 2 cents. Mike Sinclair makes a good argument that when restoring a good rod, sincethe original was silk (Phillipsons are an exception) you must use silkotherwise it ain't a true restoration. His arguments are pretty sound inthis regard. But I will mention that last nite I finished restoring, or by Mike'sdefinition refinished, an antique Montague, and I used nylon. The rod is tobe a wall hanger and is for a speech to a fly fisher group to show anexample of a BADLY made rod (the rod was so poorly made that the rindwasn'teven scraped off the cane) I just could not justify wasting good silk onthis sucker. On a new rod, the choice is yours, and silk is far more traditionallycorrect for bamboo. In general though, nylon is a little easier to workwith because it is easier to push nylon wraps tightly together vs. Silkwhich flattens when wound snugly and so wants to stay in place more. Silkwill finish more smoothly with fewer varnish coats than nylon, but withnylon tightly packed when wrapping and a couple of extra coats of finish,the finished difference is virtually undetectable. Some will tell you thatsilk has fewer "fuzzies" than nylon and so makes for a finer wrap...sortatrue but it depends greatly on the brand of silk and you mention you havesome Gudebrod silk which is reported to be more fuzzy than other brands. There was an extended discourse here on finishes a couple of weeks ago,andI don't think anyone's opinions were changed. I can only speak frompersonal experience in that I have more luck spraying than brushing, butwere I to make more than the few rods I presently do for my ownuse/collection, I'd be dipping. This limits me to Tru-oil, which I like a lot, or poly varnishes which comein spray cans. I've yet to see a spray can of true spar varnish. I can'tprove it, but I have a sense that the poly varnishes may be less durable, soI stick with Tru-oil; but I find poly varnishes compatible with tru-oil andbecause I like how fast they dry, I will usually spray the unwrapped roduntil I get the finish I like, then wrap and finish the wraps with poly,then either a final coat on the wraps or overall finishing spray withTru-oil, buffed if necessary (after a few weeks of curing) with BirchwoodCasey Stock Sheen. True tung oil doesn't surface dry and coat the rod likea varnish, nor does it soak into cane and bond as easily as it does on moreporous woods, but there are additives different manufacturers put in tungoil to alter its finish and drying properties. There are also wellrespected makers, who hold the actual process they use closely, that usethesoaking property of tung oil to "impregnate" the rod. And with the rightprocedure, this is both a durable and good looking but duller finish. As far as using the buffing compounds that Mike Sinclair recommendsbuying from Brownell's Gunsmith catalog, I have no experience either. When Iwantto buff out a spar varnish or Tru-oil finish, and Stock Sheen doesn't havethe guts needed, I will sometimes use a rottenstone and oil combofollowed Does this help? -----Original Message----- Subject: Refinishing Bamboo Fly Rods Hi, I was wonder which varnishes, polishes and thread folks prefer for theirBamboo rod work. I have a copy of Mr. Sinclair's book and have the FineBambooFly Rod on order. Unfortunately, I can't find the polishes Mr. Sinclairsuggests locally and there are soooo many varnishes to chose from. Thread wise, I currently have some 2/0 Gudebrod silk. Thanks for the help. Jim LoweJivita@aol.comThe Bamboo Price Recordhttp://members.aol.com/fishyarn/pricerecord.htmlThe Pish Page http://members.aol.com/jivita/PishPage.htmlThe Berkeley Eskrima Club http://EkaliArnis/BEC.html from leroyt@involved.com Thu Mar 4 13:45:35 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5 release 215 ID# 0-52297U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 11:45:27 -0800 Subject: RE: glue (again) I feel this way about choosing a glues,finishes,or whatever that has to dowith crafting cane rods; why skimp. There are some u/thanes that areavailable that will surpass Elmer qualities. Single part ready to use andthey do what they claim. Have made a nodeless,regular(with nodes)andhavedone all the things to complete the rods without a problem.Leroy............. -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, March 04, 1999 6:50 AM Subject: glue (again) has anyone used "elmer's carpenters glue for exterior use" forsplices. i'dlike to use something that requires no mixing, if feasible. tks.-------------------- gary mischcdr, usn (ret.) from watson@cape-consult.co.uk Thu Mar 4 14:21:04 1999 Thu, 4 Mar 1999 20:20:52 GMT Subject: Re: delamination Steve,I've had the same thing happen to me and I think that it was just too muchheat. Like you I could put my hand in the area. What I do know is, apart from using a lot less heat, is to put a quick whipping around the rod justbelow the bend - just in case!Tim.-----Original Message----- Subject: delamination Had a disheartening experience this morning. I had glued my first blankwith epon on Sunday and was trying to do a little heat straighteningtoday. I was working in the tip end of the butt section with mild heat(I could place the palm of my hand on the area after heating) and whileputting some pressure on the end the last two inches of a throughsection delaminated. There was a little crack and they let go. Did I try to work on the section too soon? Can one use heat at all onEpon? Luckily I think I will be able to clean and reglue the area fairlyeasily. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from HARMS1@prodigy.net Thu Mar 4 16:08:59 1999 ext.prodigy.net RAA203722;Thu, 4 Mar 1999 17:08:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Refinishing Bamboo Fly Rods =_NextPart_000_01BE6661.73C36A40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE6661.73C36A40 Jim, "SweetwaterRods." He sells some great stuff, supplied by a "mystery source" in theaerospace industry. George says even he doesn't know what it is. But itcomes as a kit in three grades, "first cut," "fine," and "extra fine." You just rub each one on in succession, and you're left with a flawlessfinish. (No interest in product or supplier) Cheers, Bill ----------From: Rick RappÄ Subject: RE: Refinishing Bamboo Fly RodsDate: Thursday, March 04, 1999 10:23 AM Jim, This is one of those Ford vs. Chevy debates on which "reasonable peoplecanreasonably differ". For whatever it is worth, here's my 2 cents. Mike Sinclair makes a good argument that when restoring a good rod,sincethe original was silk (Phillipsons are an exception) you must use silkotherwise it ain't a true restoration. His arguments are pretty sound inthis regard. But I will mention that last nite I finished restoring, or by Mike'sdefinition refinished, an antique Montague, and I used nylon. The rod istobe a wall hanger and is for a speech to a fly fisher group to show anexample of a BADLY made rod (the rod was so poorly made that the rindwasn'teven scraped off the cane) I just could not justify wasting good silk onthis sucker. On a new rod, the choice is yours, and silk is far more traditionallycorrect for bamboo. In general though, nylon is a little easier to workwith because it is easier to push nylon wraps tightly together vs. Silkwhich flattens when wound snugly and so wants to stay in place more. Silkwill finish more smoothly with fewer varnish coats than nylon, but withnylon tightly packed when wrapping and a couple of extra coats of finish,the finished difference is virtually undetectable. Some will tell youthatsilk has fewer "fuzzies" than nylon and so makes for a finer wrap...sortatrue but it depends greatly on the brand of silk and you mention you havesome Gudebrod silk which is reported to be more fuzzy than other brands. There was an extended discourse here on finishes a couple of weeks ago,andI don't think anyone's opinions were changed. I can only speak frompersonal experience in that I have more luck spraying than brushing, butwere I to make more than the few rods I presently do for my ownuse/collection, I'd be dipping. This limits me to Tru-oil, which I like a lot, or poly varnishes whichcomein spray cans. I've yet to see a spray can of true spar varnish. Ican'tprove it, but I have a sense that the poly varnishes may be less durable,soI stick with Tru-oil; but I find poly varnishes compatible with tru-oilandbecause I like how fast they dry, I will usually spray the unwrapped roduntil I get the finish I like, then wrap and finish the wraps with poly,then either a final coat on the wraps or overall finishing spray withTru-oil, buffed if necessary (after a few weeks of curing) withBirchwoodCasey Stock Sheen. True tung oil doesn't surface dry and coat the rodlikea varnish, nor does it soak into cane and bond as easily as it does onmoreporous woods, but there are additives different manufacturers put intungoil to alter its finish and drying properties. There are also wellrespected makers, who hold the actual process they use closely, that usethesoaking property of tung oil to "impregnate" the rod. And with the rightprocedure, this is both a durable and good looking but duller finish. As far as using the buffing compounds that Mike Sinclair recommendsbuying from Brownell's Gunsmith catalog, I have no experience either. When Iwantto buff out a spar varnish or Tru-oil finish, and Stock Sheen doesn'thavethe guts needed, I will sometimes use a rottenstone and oil combofollowed Does this help? -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, March 04, 1999 9:49 AM Subject: Refinishing Bamboo Fly Rods Hi, I was wonder which varnishes, polishes and thread folks prefer for theirBamboo rod work. I have a copy of Mr. Sinclair's book and have the FineBambooFly Rod on order. Unfortunately, I can't find the polishes Mr. Sinclairsuggests locally and there are soooo many varnishes to chose from. Thread wise, I currently have some 2/0 Gudebrod silk. Thanks for the help. Jim LoweJivita@aol.comThe Bamboo Price Recordhttp://members.aol.com/fishyarn/pricerecord.htmlThe Pish Page http://members.aol.com/jivita/PishPage.htmlThe Berkeley Eskrima Club http://EkaliArnis/BEC.html------=_NextPart_000_01BE6661.73C36A40 Jim,For buffing and =polishing, you want to talk to George Maurer at "Sweetwater = =a kit in three grades, "first cut," = a flawless finish.(No interest in product or = Sinclair makes a good argument that when restoring a good rod, = flattens when wound snugly and so wants to stay in place more. = fewer "fuzzies" than nylon and so makes for a finer = = This limits me to Tru-oil, which I like a lot, or poly varnishes which = until I get the finish I like, then wrap and finish the wraps with = woods, but there are additives different manufacturers put in = = procedure, this is both a durable and good looking but duller = needed, I will sometimes use a rottenstone and oil combo = = = ------=_NextPart_000_01BE6661.73C36A40-- from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Thu Mar 4 16:30:35 1999 0500 Subject: Re[2]: delamination O.K. so now I am getting nervous...my friend and I both used Epon on our first rods and he whacked his tip during straightening (sorry)...it split - and not on a seam (flat) either. I am about to try to straighten my tip and would like to be sure I am doing it right. It has a gentle bend runnning thru it and a bit of twisting. I glued up over a week ago. Once I apply a little heat from my heat gun, should I roll it on a flat surface, bend it back the other way, or place it on a flat surface with enough weight on it to keep it straight while it cools? Should I in fact bind up to the bend before straightening (as I think it is suggested below). In the future, should I attempt to straighten much sooner? Thanks! Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: delamination Author: at Tcpgate Steve,I've had the same thing happen to me and I think that it was just too muchheat. Like you I could put my hand in the area. What I do know is, apart from using a lot less heat, is to put a quick whipping around the rod justbelow the bend - just in case!Tim.-----Original Message----- Subject: delamination Had a disheartening experience this morning. I had glued my first blankwith epon on Sunday and was trying to do a little heat straighteningtoday. I was working in the tip end of the butt section with mild heat(I could place the palm of my hand on the area after heating) and whileputting some pressure on the end the last two inches of a throughsection delaminated. There was a little crack and they let go. Did I try to work on the section too soon? Can one use heat at all onEpon? Luckily I think I will be able to clean and reglue the area fairlyeasily. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from macbarn@hotmail.com Thu Mar 4 16:56:45 1999 Thu, 04 Mar 1999 14:53:23 PST Subject: glue hi i am a new rodmaker with meny questions? i have bin using titebond poly glue have had good luck sofar but would like others opion,. i have meny more questions but will test my poor computer skills thanks mm barnes ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from anglport@con2.com Thu Mar 4 17:11:17 1999 Subject: Re: Re[2]: delamination Gee, Andy, I've only used the stuff on seven rods so far so take thiswitha grain of salt. I've waited at least a day or so and used that electricgrill I'm always touting to anyone who'll listen. I hold the amount ofsection, long or short, that I wish to screw with over a corner of theelement until it feels warm, and overtorque it in the reverse direction ofthe bend.Haven't had any problems yet (That zzzzzip you hear is probably myrun ofluck lapsing now that I've said that!) Don't know what else to tell you. youhave to begin somewhere in the middle and expect the bends to becomemoresevere as they march their way down the section to the end; just chasethelittle dickenses along until they vacate the premises from one end or theother. Hope some others will chime in and we can all learn a technique ortwo! Art At 04:48 PM 3/4/99 -0500, andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com wrote:O.K. so now I am getting nervous...my friend and I both used Epon on our first rods and he whacked his tip during straightening (sorry)...it split - and not on a seam (flat) either. I am about to try to straighten my tip and would like to be sure I am doing it right. It has a gentle bend runnning thru it and a bit of twisting. I glued up over a week ago. Once I apply a little heat from my heat gun, should I roll it on a flat surface, bend it back the other way, or place it on a flat surface with enough weight on it to keep it straight while it cools? Should I in fact bind up to the bend before straightening (as I think it is suggested below). In the future, should I attempt to straighten much sooner? Thanks! Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: delamination Author: at TcpgateDate: 3/4/99 3:18 PM Steve,I've had the same thing happen to me and I think that it was just too muchheat. Like you I could put my hand in the area. What I do know is, apart from using a lot less heat, is to put a quick whipping around the rod justbelow the bend - just in case!Tim.-----Original Message-----From: Steve Date: 04 March 1999 14:06Subject: delamination Had a disheartening experience this morning. I had glued my first blankwith epon on Sunday and was trying to do a little heat straighteningtoday. I was working in the tip end of the butt section with mild heat(I could place the palm of my hand on the area after heating) and whileputting some pressure on the end the last two inches of a throughsection delaminated. There was a little crack and they let go. Did I try to work on the section too soon? Can one use heat at all onEpon? Luckily I think I will be able to clean and reglue the area fairlyeasily. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Mar 4 19:47:25 1999 Subject: Re: Re[2]: delamination Here are a few words that might help - the delamination - been there -it a bummer but I hope that the spirits are high and you will stick with usthrough the thick and thin of it STRAIGHTENINGA glued section can require straightening in two fashions.First the section may be twisted or spiraled. Second, it may havesome kinks or bends in it.If you look ahead a page or so you will find another sectionalso titled straightening. It's a simple matter, you eitherstraighten now or you straighten later. And believe me, once theglue is dried, it becomes a lot harder.Before I check for any bends or twists I roll the sectionagainst a flat surface with the palms of my hands. I place freshnewspaper on my workbench and lay the section on it. Starting withboth hands at the center of the section, I lightly roll it back andforth by shuttling my hands. As I roll the section I graduallyslide my hands apart. Eventually one hand is at the butt of thesection and the other hand is at the tip. Both hands are shuttledsimultaneously. I will make two passes over the section in thismanner.Again, practicing this maneuver ahead of time with a 3/8"wooden dowel might be best. It's a simple thing, but when youhaven't done it before it can initially be an awkward move.The palm rolling does three things. First, it blotters excessglue onto the newspaper. Second it stress relieves the bindingthread allowing the strips in the section to slide back to theirnatural position. Third, it rolls out most bends that might havedeveloped in the section.Because my workbench has been used for several other things,the surface is a little torn up. To compensate for this problem Ihave a piece of 1/8" tempered masonite 6" wide by 4' long that Ilay on the workbench whenever I want a smooth flat surface. Whenthe masonite becomes worn I replace it with another. When I mentiona flat surface this is what I'm referring to.The next stage of straightening is to check for and correctany twists that might remain in the section. Finding a twist iseasy. With the section on a flat surface, start at the butt andsimply press down on the section in one spot with one hand. Withthe other hand, skip ahead a few inches and press down at thatlocation. If there is a twist in that part of the section it willrock as you press at the second location. If the section rocks,then you have to determine the start and end points of the twist.It becomes part visual and part testing for a rocking of thesection to determine these points. When you have located a point,place a light mark with a pencil on the problem section. To removethe twist, grasp the section at the pencil marks and twist itopposite the spiral. The amount of pressure needed depends on howbad the twist is. Several light applications of pressure are betterthan one massive effort that might represent a heavy overcorrection. When you can march down the section with your fingersand cannot detect a rocking of the shaft, you're done.Unlike a twist which is common to all flats of a section, abend can affect as little as two flats. Any major bends can bedetected by simply laying the section on a flat surface and lookingto see if there are areas where the section doesn't touch thesurface. But to find minute bends the section needs to be rolled onthe flat surface using the corners of the hex shape as anindicator.Any bends that are present after palm rolling the section arelong bends and not kinks. Trying to straighten a bend by holdingthe section in both hands and pressing with the thumbs won't workwhen the glue is wet. What you end up with doing this type ofstraightening is a section with one kink followed by another.Straightening the bends can be done two ways. With eithermethod, you first need to determine the start and end points of thebends. I don't mark them with a pencil. Instead I hold a finger onthe section and visualize the approximate length of the bend.The first method makes use of a wallpaper seam roller. Once Ihave the highest point of the bend up, whether it's a flat, corner,or combination, I take the roller with light pressure and roll thebend flat.The second method, which is the one I prefer, goes like this.With the high point up, I press on the section with the firstfinger of my left hand. As I do this I pull back on the section asif drawinga pool cue back before the shot. The reason I preferthis method is that it causes the bonding thread to repositionitself allowing the strips to shift. And for me it goes faster. STRAIGHTENINGNow without the binding thread or glue, you have a clearpicture of the completed section. Hopefully you were successful instraightening the section before the glue dried, and you only needa little touch up to complete the job.I'm often asked: "Well how straight does it have to be?" Onlyyou, as the maker, can answer that question. To me straight isstraight.To identify any twists or bends left in the section, use thesame tests as before. But this time they can only be removed byheating the section. The same rules apply as when the initial splitstrips were straightened. Use a wide application of heat for twistsor long bends. Use a narrow application of heat for kinks. Thistime you don't want to be so aggressive with the amount of heat. Iwould suggest doing any corrections in stages, allowing the sectionto completely cool between each stage. And this time you can grabthe shaft with both hands and use the thumbs to straighten out abend instead of pool cueing it.In practice, I will first roll the rod section on theworkbench top holding the larger end of the rod section tight tothe surface. As I roll the shaft I look for light between the rodsection and the workbench top. When I see light or the rod sectionraise from the bench top I know that there is a bend present. Iwill then roll the rod section back and forth until the gap is thegreatest. By doing so I know that the direction for correcting thebend is toward the bench top surface. Then as I hold the rodsection tight to the bench top with my right hand I press downwardon the raised area with my left hand. While doing so I carefullywatch the rod section where it first lifts from the bench top. I amfocusing to find the exact apex of the bend. That is the area thatthe heat will need to be concentrated to. Once I am sure of theapex I will move my left index finger to 2" to the left of the apexand place it on the upper most part of the rod section. I followthis by placing my right index finger at 2" to the right of theapex. Then the rod section is lifted from the bench top and thethumbs of both hands are place on the rod section opposite of theindex fingers. Now as my hands are lowered to their naturalstraight extension of the arm the direction for the corrective bendis horizontal and achieved by twisting the hands so that the thumbsmove outward. You now have a direction and amplitude. Aftersoftening of the apex the rod section needs to be pressured intoan exact mirror of the initial bend. Any other position and youmight chase a bend back and forth forever.Bends and kinks come in all varieties. Each requires adifferent heat application. If the bend is very defined to an exactlocation I would suggest applying heat with just the narrow widthof the heat gun diffuser. If the bend is spread to a broader areathen the angle at which the rod section crosses over the diffuserof the heat gun should change to allow for softening of a widerarea. Eventually, if you are trying to correct a lengthy sweep therod section will be in line with the broad width of the heat gundiffuser and the rod section will need to be slowly shuttled thelength of the sweep over the diffuser. As heat is being applied itis important to rotate the rod section so that the girth of thearea is warmed evenly. This should be done with wrist action sothat the correct position of the rod section isn't lost with theindex fingers and thumbs. A distance of 3/4" - 7/8" should bemaintained between the top of the heat gun diffuser and the rodsection.I wish I had a magic formula, I could pass on, that woulddetermine the exact time need to soften rod sections forstraightening. Because of the many variations, I don't. I have,however, worked out a good common sense guideline. If you startwith a base time of 3 - 4 seconds at the tip and then add 2 secondsper foot as you move toward the butt you will have safe starttimes. Obviously these times may not get the job done on a firstattempt but you shouldn't overheat and delaminate anything. Aftera first attempt at the above time schedule add 2 seconds to eachadditional straightening attempt. However, after you have made twoattempts at straightening an area I would recommend that you stopand let the area cool back to room temperature before makingfurther attempts. You would take up heating times where you leftoff. The corrective bending position is held in place on the rodsection for double the warming times. This assures that the bondingmaterial of the bamboo has hardened enough to hold in the newposition.If the area you are warming is larger than the heat gunduffuser then the heat time needs to reflect that. Remember alsothat on long sweeps that the exposure time shouldn't be even.Because of the difference in mass at the different locations alongthe rod section more heat will be needed in the larger dimensionareas. from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Mar 4 19:50:56 1999 mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net(InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP Subject: Re: Re[2]: delamination Steve Do not blame the glue for delamination. I have about 50+ rodsglued with this stuff including my students and we have not had a singleproblem. Also, according to Bill Fink there is stuff sitting on the surfaceof the moon still glued together with it. Grease and oil on the strips can cause a problem, poor mixingof the glue can also cause a problem, along with poor application to allsurfaces. When you heat straighten it is a finesse thing where you do a bit at a time - excess pressure and heat does not work. Heat and apply gentle pressure with hands away from the area where you arestraightening. I do not think you have to rebind strips or anything like that. BTW, I do not hesitate to work on strips I have glued up the nightbefore - I have a warm room where I hang them and they are ready the nextmorning. They are at 90+ % cure and you will not get them apart. Tom Smithwick demonstrated this at Roscoe two years ago when we glueda test strip to show the lack of glue build up when hollow fluting and wetook the string off and he wacked it with a splitting tool on a flat and it split on the flat and not at the seams - the glue was less than 24 hoursold. Sooo.... evaluate other steps in your process that may have leadto your problem. Chris On Thu, 4 Mar 1999 16:48:07 -0500, andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com wrote: O.K. so now I am getting nervous...my friend and I both used Epon on our first rods and he whacked his tip during straightening (sorry)...it split - and not on a seam (flat) either. I am about to try to straighten my tip and would like to be sure I am doing it right. It has a gentle bend runnning thru it and a bit of twisting. I glued up over a week ago. Once I apply a little heat from my heat gun, should I roll it on a flat surface, bend it back the other way, or place it on a flat surface with enough weight on it to keep it straight while it cools? Should I in fact bind up to the bend before straightening (as I think it is suggested below). In the future, should I attempt to straighten much sooner? Thanks! Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: delamination Author: at TcpgateDate: 3/4/99 3:18 PM Steve,I've had the same thing happen to me and I think that it was just too muchheat. Like you I could put my hand in the area. What I do know is, apart from using a lot less heat, is to put a quick whipping around the rod justbelow the bend - just in case!Tim.-----Original Message-----From: Steve Date: 04 March 1999 14:06Subject: delamination Had a disheartening experience this morning. I had glued my first blankwith epon on Sunday and was trying to do a little heat straighteningtoday. I was working in the tip end of the butt section with mild heat(I could place the palm of my hand on the area after heating) and whileputting some pressure on the end the last two inches of a throughsection delaminated. There was a little crack and they let go. Did I try to work on the section too soon? Can one use heat at all onEpon? Luckily I think I will be able to clean and reglue the area fairlyeasily. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from Craig.Naldrett@ibm.net Thu Mar 4 19:54:24 1999 (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA29222; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 01:54:14 GMT Subject: Re:File/Stone etc. boundary="------------4710F254B059C6608E2DC4A0" --------------4710F254B059C6608E2DC4A0 I plan to build my final forms using the Penrose approach (havematerial in hand, will start facing them tomorrow), I will be interestedto hear of your progress, hints etc.In the interim I have built a set of Preliminary forms ( a laGarrison) 3' long, 2 pieces of 3/4" cold rolled key stock (also calledcold drawn in Canada). Mostly for practice I used the 5" spacing ofshoulder bolts, set screws & pins as per Penrose (Garrison used 3differential bolts @ 10" spacing). A few things I learned building them& from a friend who is a machinist. - initial material removal with standard mill file using cross filing(as noted in an earlier note to you), then final cleanup using drawfiling. A long angle mill file (also called machinists or lathe file) isrecommended for draw filing, I didn't bother locating one. Cutting fluidhelps this process, I used a small amount of Rapid Tap.- to drill holes for 3/16" pins first use a drill "1" undersized (5/32")then use final drill bit size 3/16". This gives a cleaner hole, similarto using a reamer (and cheaper). I would not insert the pins afterdrilling until you can be sure all "swarf" is first cleaned out(difficult to do when bars are still clamped), your clamps will holdmaterial fine.- use a coutersink bit to take the edge off all holes, it makes startingthe tap a little easier & it looks better. Obvious point but make sureyou get a "taper" also called "starter" tap not a plug or bottom tap,also use something like Rapid Tap fluid.- use Rapid Tap (or similar cutting fluid) on your triangular file, itreally helps that part of the process. Good LuckCraig --------------4710F254B059C6608E2DC4A0 approach(have material in hand, will start facing them tomorrow), I will beinterestedto hear of your progress, hints etc. forms ( a la Garrison) 3' long, 2 pieces of 3/4" cold rolled key stock(also called cold drawn in Canada). Mostly for practice I used the 5"spacingof shoulder bolts, set screws & pins as per Penrose (Garrison used3 differential bolts @ 10" spacing). A few things I learned building them& from a friend who is a machinist.- initial material removal with standard mill file using cross filing(as noted in an earlier note to you), then final cleanup using draw filing.A long angle mill file (also called machinists or lathe file) isrecommended process, I used a small amount of Rapid Tap.- to drill holes for 3/16" pins first use a drill "1" undersized (5/32") to using a reamer (and cheaper). I would not insert the pins after drillinguntil you can be sure all "swarf" is first cleaned out (difficult to dowhen bars are still clamped), your clamps will hold material fine.- use a coutersink bit to take the edge off all holes, it makes startingthe tap a little easier & it looks better. Obvious point but make sureyou get a "taper" also called "starter" tap not a plug or bottomtap, also use something like Rapid Tap fluid.- use Rapid Tap (or similar cutting fluid) on your triangular file,it really helps that part of the process.Good LuckCraig --------------4710F254B059C6608E2DC4A0-- from drinkr@voicenet.com Thu Mar 4 21:34:39 1999 (207.103.119.163) Subject: RE: File/stone the steel? Gerald, I found that stress relieving the steel is a great way to preparethe cold rolled steel for filing. It really stabilizes the steel and itwanders very little. I paid $50 to stress relieve 4- 6'x7/8" bars which Ithought was pretty fair. I looked up metal finishers it the phone book fora source but most machine shops doing surface machine work will haveaccessto a stress relieving furnace. Dave Rinker -----Original Message----- Subject: File/stone the steel? Ok, that was corny... Bought the steel yesterday and had it cut in two 6'sections. Now I'm confused. I've read Penrose and Howell. They have divergentopinionsand I need others to weigh in so I might determine what my next actionsshould be (or should not be). Penrose says to file the facing sufaces and Howell says specifically not tofile but instead stone them so that the burrs are gone. What to do? I knowIneed surfaces that mate flush. Does filing do that much damage to the skinof the steel? Thanks in advance. Please, reply to list as I'm surely not the only one withthis on my mind. Gerald from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Thu Mar 4 23:40:30 1999 SMTP Fri, 5 Mar 1999 06:40:21 +0100 Subject: culm splitter boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE5A77.442906A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE5A77.442906A0 Dear friends Read in the biography about Dickerson that he used a "culm splitter". A =tool to split the culm at once in 12 or 24 strips. Anybody nows where =such an tool is to buy or how to make oneself? regards and thanks Stefan ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE5A77.442906A0 Dear friends Read in the biography about Dickerson that he used a= "culm splitter". A tool to split the culm at once in 12 or 24 = Anybody nows where such an tool is to buy or how to make =oneself? regards and thanks Stefan ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE5A77.442906A0-- from bc@fyptt.fyptt.zjpta.net.cn Fri Mar 5 02:38:42 1999 Subject: (no subject) hlpe me to sign off from mschaffer@mindspring.com Fri Mar 5 06:01:25 1999 Subject: Help with archives--Bamboo species As a rookie, I have just finished an unsuccessful search of the archives. Iwas looking for some admittedly ground level information about bamboo. Iwassearching for any discussions/information about why Tonkin cane is thespecies of choice for rods, as opposed to other bamboo from other areas.Very basic 'stuff', I realize, but I need to start somewhere!If someone could give me a key word or two to find this info in thearchives, I won't take up any more list bandwidth about this subject.Thank you for your time, Mike Docmschaffer@mindspring.com from sniderja@email.uc.edu Fri Mar 5 06:12:21 1999 Subject: Re: Re[2]: delamination I have only built 8-9 rods using Epon, so am by no means veryknowledgable.However, I wouldn't think of not straightening the blank while it was stillfreshly glued up. I usually glue up my sections in the evening, then dosome preliminary straightening immediately upon glueing (rolling on atabletop, etc.), and then after a couple of hours, complete the straightening.Any slight defects can usually be straightened the next morning. However, You might want to check out an issue of The Planing Form from ayear or so ago where someone recommends using the planing form itself(readjusted) and a flat steel plate to aid in straightening. I used it onmy first couple of rods and it worked very well. For some reason I havegotten away from it. However, another local rod maker, Jeff Arnold, isnowusing this technique and he swears by it. Think I will return to the method.J. Snider.At 04:48 PM 3/4/99 -0500, andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com wrote:O.K. so now I am getting nervous...my friend and I both used Epon on our first rods and he whacked his tip during straightening (sorry)...it split - and not on a seam (flat) either. I am about to try to straighten my tip and would like to be sure I am doing it right. It has a gentle bend runnning thru it and a bit of twisting. I glued up over a week ago. Once I apply a little heat from my heat gun, should I roll it on a flat surface, bend it back the other way, or place it on a flat surface with enough weight on it to keep it straight while it cools? Should I in fact bind up to the bend before straightening (as I think it is suggested below). In the future, should I attempt to straighten much sooner? Thanks! Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: delamination Author: at TcpgateDate: 3/4/99 3:18 PM Steve,I've had the same thing happen to me and I think that it was just too muchheat. Like you I could put my hand in the area. What I do know is, apart from using a lot less heat, is to put a quick whipping around the rod justbelow the bend - just in case!Tim.-----Original Message-----From: Steve Date: 04 March 1999 14:06Subject: delamination Had a disheartening experience this morning. I had glued my first blankwith epon on Sunday and was trying to do a little heat straighteningtoday. I was working in the tip end of the butt section with mild heat(I could place the palm of my hand on the area after heating) and whileputting some pressure on the end the last two inches of a throughsection delaminated. There was a little crack and they let go. Did I try to work on the section too soon? Can one use heat at all onEpon? Luckily I think I will be able to clean and reglue the area fairlyeasily. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from drinkr@voicenet.com Fri Mar 5 06:36:14 1999 (207.103.143.53) Subject: lathe help boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01BE66DA.428A0DC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01BE66DA.428A0DC0 Get ready, Al is a piece of work... He has tons of peripheral parts forlathes however. I bought my 9 inch from him last year and spent a coupleofhours refitting it with pieces from the warehouse. My total price wasaround700 bucks after all my adjustments. Dave Rinker ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01BE66DA.428A0DC0 Get ready, Al is a piece of work... He has tons of peripheral parts = lathes however. I bought my 9 inch from him last year and spent a couple = hours refitting it with pieces from the warehouse. My total price was = bucks after all my adjustments. Dave =Rinker ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01BE66DA.428A0DC0-- from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Fri Mar 5 08:28:27 1999 0500 Subject: delamination Art, Wayne, Jerry, Chris ...thanks for the suggestions.... Andy from rambo2_98@yahoo.com Fri Mar 5 09:05:31 1999 1999 07:04:45 PST Subject: RE: lathe help rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu I would agree wholeheartedly ... Al is a piece of work! :) ---"David K. Rinker" wrote: Get ready, Al is a piece of work... He has tons of peripheral partsforlathes however. I bought my 9 inch from him last year and spent acouple ofhours refitting it with pieces from the warehouse. My total price wasaround 700 bucks after all my adjustments. Dave Rinker -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, March 04, 1999 7:43 AM Subject: Re: lathe help 611 Machine Sales, Inc.1365 Industrial Blvd.Southampton, PA 18966 Al Hernberg 215-355-9844 Good Luck! ---Flysguys@aol.com wrote: Could you let me know who the gentlman is? I have a sheldon lathethat I needsome items for. Guy S _________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from sats@gte.net Fri Mar 5 09:11:04 1999 Subject: How Good is Good? A note from Terry A. brought a fairly quick response from me. Uponreflection Iwas a little too quick in my response. Sorry Terry A. But his question does deserve an answer. Basically, are rod builders,today,better then rod builders of yesterday -- especially production rodbuilders? I have to preface this with the statement that a Payne will always be aPanyeand if we use the Very Best rods to compare our work, then a case could bemade. BUT! The majority of production rods were made by Horrock-Ibbotson andMontague. They do not have good reputations. Their very best was good,butthey went down hill from there. Some were said to be of as cheepmaterial asthe Japanese rods brought back after the war. But what about the workmanship? Anyone can buy expensive ferrules andreelseats. Anyone can buy the best cork grips and tiptops. But actuallyBUILDINGa rod to spec takes a little more. Today, thanks to builders like WayneCattanach, and others -- and the availability of inexpensive measuringtools --the standard is .001in. That's what we shoot for. Let's look at some sections of production rods from the past. The numbersarethe variance between the smallest sides and the largest sides in .001in. tip tip tip tip tip mid mid mid1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3========================================= 2 8 5 5 5 4 8 54 4 5 3 6 13 12 24 6 4 4 1 19 10 56 4 9 4 2 6 4 55 2 1 1 2 10 7 23 9 1 1 5 12 5 55 17 3 8 2 8 1413 1 8 0 12 I believe these sections are typical of mid and low range production rods.They came to me by way of various owners -- tackle shops, collectors andfleamarkets. Almost any rod maker on this list would go 'skyrocket' if one of his blanksmeasured a variance of over .005 inch. Based on this I believe the averagerodtoday is better then the average rod of yesterday. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from cattanac@wmis.net Fri Mar 5 10:46:14 1999 mail4.wmis.net (8.8.8/SCO5) with SMTP id LAA23714 for; Fri, 5 11:35:48 -0500 Subject: RE: How Good is Good? Terry - thanks for the kind words but many good folks have addedgreatly to thiscraft. I don't think that you will find a distinct line is the sand - but asmass productionbecomes limited production or to use the term 'custom' the better the rodsget - exampleswould be Youngs - Dickersons - and others of this grouping. I recentlymade a tip for aDickerson and the dimensions of the original rod were all within ,001" -so understand itisn't me that is setting that goal but simply reflecting what we see andfocusing others tothat level of detail. In general the comment could be that today's rod are better becauseno one is reallyfocusig at an entry level - or at least most aren't - checkout ROFF for anupdate on theBastard Rods. The explaination I think is simple - for the personal rewardof it each makerswants to produce the best they can. And with the list and get togethersthe information ofthe how to's is readily available. This is because most don't feelthreatened by passing italong - which again is reflective of the hobbist cottage industry that thecraft has become.Will this answer fit well with all - perhaps not - each has a dream ofwhat this -bamboo rod making - is supposed to be. Individually we each get to answerthat the way wewish and that decission should be respected by others around us. from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Mar 5 10:49:18 1999 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: delamination I am in agreement with what has been said about straightening, but wouldliketo add that if you are working near the tip, you can often massage a bendoutusing just the heat of friction from your fingers. Basically, you just runthebent area back and forth through your fingers, and apply a bit force againstthe bend with your thumb. If you have an old tip around with a set, try itandyou will see what I mean. from GeraldB@Pennwell.com Fri Mar 5 15:17:59 1999 (5.5.2448.0) "'gespliesst@bluewin.ch'" Subject: RE: culm splitter Stefan Also, in the Winston Water's video that the R.L. Winston rod companyproduced, Glenn Brackett is seen using such a unit and I think it was a12-splitter. Might be a useful video for you if a pattern is needed. Gerald from BThoman@neonsoft.com Fri Mar 5 15:28:43 1999 Subject: RE: culm splitter I was talking with a production builder the other day and he mentioned theculm splitter. It's like an apple slicer that you push down on top of theapple that removes the core and splits the rest in sections. I imagine theproduction builders' slicer was mechanized somehow. That would take alotof force to split it by hand, wouldn't it? Brian ThomanThe Chattahoochee River Rod CompanyParker, Coloradohttp://www.bambooflyrods.com(303) 805-5733 -----Original Message-----From: Gerald Buckley [SMTP:GeraldB@Pennwell.com]Sent: Friday, March 05, 1999 2:17 PM Subject: RE: culm splitter Stefan Also, in the Winston Water's video that the R.L. Winston rod companyproduced, Glenn Brackett is seen using such a unit and I think it was a12-splitter. Might be a useful video for you if a pattern is needed. Gerald from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Fri Mar 5 16:44:07 1999 Subject: RE: culm splitter I believe that at one time Max Satoh had a picture of one of these onhis web page. Also some one has one of these in their catalog. I havethat on file on my computer at home. If I think about it tonight I'llpost both Max's web page address and the catalog that it is in. Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net BT>I was talking with a production builder the other day and he mentionedtheBT>culm splitter. It's like an apple slicer that you push down on top of theBT>apple that removes the core and splits the rest in sections. I imaginetheBT>production builders' slicer was mechanized somehow. That would takea lotBT>of force to split it by hand, wouldn't it? BT>Brian ThomanBT>The Chattahoochee River Rod CompanyBT>Parker, ColoradoBT>http://www.bambooflyrods.comBT>(303) 805-5733 BT>> -----Original Message-----BT>> From: Gerald Buckley [SMTP:GeraldB@Pennwell.com]BT>> Sent: Friday, March 05, 1999 2:17 PM BT>> Subject: RE: culm splitterBT>>BT>> StefanBT>>BT>> Also, in the Winston Water's video that the R.L. Winston rod companyBT>> produced, Glenn Brackett is seen using such a unit and I think it wasaBT>> 12-splitter. Might be a useful video for you if a pattern is needed.BT>>BT>> Gerald from Turbotrk@aol.com Fri Mar 5 18:23:19 1999 Subject: guides To the list,. I have just finished the Sir D and was wondering about theguides and their spacing. How many guides and what size should I use? IknowI need a stripper and a tip top. Where should the stripper be placed andWhy?How many snakes and where? Sorry if I sound stupid but I am not sure. Whatis the size of the tip top for .064". What size snakes and how are theymeasured when ordering? Thanks in advace stuart miller from HARMS1@prodigy.net Fri Mar 5 18:25:38 1999 Fri, 5 Mar 1999 19:25:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Help with archives--Bamboo species =_NextPart_000_01BE673D.BB7AB640" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE673D.BB7AB640 Mike, On the contrary, this is NOT "basic stuff." The truth is that most of ushave no idea why Tonkin cane is better than any of the other species, andhave satisfied ourselves that it is so because others before us have swornto it. We know what properties Tonkin possesses, and why we want them,but we do not have much of a basis for comparison to the dozens of otherspecies. We really know only of a few other bamboos that have been triedand discarded, but that doesn't strike me as a very good reason to assumethat Tonkin is the "only way to go." Among the dozens and dozens of Arundinaria, Semi-Arundinaria andPhyllostachys bamboos growing all over Asia and elsewhere, it'simpossible just don't know. I mean, who among us has ever had the resources and thetime to search this thing out? So, we go with what we know -- and itain'tbad. A couple references on bamboo, by the way, are F.A. McClure, The Bamboos ( 1993 Smithsonian Institution reprint of a Harvard University 1966 firstedition), and the wonderfully illustrated General Catalogue of LaBambouseraie (Europe's largest bamboo nursery. Cheers, Bill ----------From: michael w shaffer Subject: Help with archives--Bamboo speciesDate: Friday, March 05, 1999 3:47 AM As a rookie, I have just finished an unsuccessful search of the archives.Iwas looking for some admittedly ground level information about bamboo.Iwassearching for any discussions/information about why Tonkin cane is thespecies of choice for rods, as opposed to other bamboo from other areas.Very basic 'stuff', I realize, but I need to start somewhere!If someone could give me a key word or two to find this info in thearchives, I won't take up any more list bandwidth about this subject.Thank you for your time, Mike Docmschaffer@mindspring.com------=_NextPart_000_01BE673D.BB7AB640 Mike,On thecontrary, = of us have no idea why Tonkin cane is better than any of the other =species, and have satisfied ourselves that it is so because others = possesses, and why we want them, but we do not have much of a basis for= a few other bamboos that have been tried and discarded, but that doesn't =strike me as a very good reason to assume that Tonkin is the "only = Arundinaria, Semi-Arundinaria and Phyllostachys bamboos growing allover =Asia and elsewhere, it's impossible for me to believe that Tonkin is the = mean, who among us has ever had the resources and the time to search = bad.A couple references on bamboo, by the way, are F.A. McClure, =The Bamboos ( 1993 Smithsonian Institution reprint of a =Harvard University 1966 first edition), and the wonderfully illustrated =General Catalogue of La Bambouseraie (Europe's largest bamboo = =a rookie, I have just finished an unsuccessful search of the archives. = = ------=_NextPart_000_01BE673D.BB7AB640-- from channer@hubwest.com Fri Mar 5 18:28:17 1999 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A71B1028009E; Fri, 05 Mar 1999 17:30:19 MST Subject: RE: How Good is Good? At 11:35 AM 3/5/99 -0500, Wayne Cattanach wrote:Terry - thanks for the kind words but many good folks have addedgreatlyto this craft. I don't think that you will find a distinct line is the sand- but as mass production becomes limited production or to use the term'custom' the better the rods get - examples would be Youngs - Dickersons-and others of this grouping. I recently made a tip for a Dickerson and thedimensions of the original rod were all within ,001" - so understand itisn't me that is setting that goal but simply reflecting what we see andfocusing others to that level of detail. In general the comment could be that today's rod are better becausenoone is really focusig at an entry level - or at least most aren't -checkout ROFF for an update on the Bastard Rods. The explaination I thinkis simple - for the personal reward of it each makers wants to producethebest they can. And with the list and get togethers the information of thehow to's is readily available. This is because most don't feel threatened industry that the craft has become.Will this answer fit well with all - perhaps not - each has a dreamofwhat this - bamboo rod making - is supposed to be. Individually we eachgetto answer that the way we wish and that decission should be respected byothers around us. Wayne;What is ROFF?John from HARMS1@prodigy.net Fri Mar 5 18:29:25 1999 Fri, 5 Mar 1999 19:29:17 -0500 Subject: Re: culm splitter =_NextPart_000_01BE673E.42FC0B00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE673E.42FC0B00 Well, hey, what about the froe -- used in the old days by roofers to splitout cedar or oak shakes? ----------From: Thoman, Brian Subject: RE: culm splitterDate: Friday, March 05, 1999 1:24 PM I was talking with a production builder the other day and he mentionedtheculm splitter. It's like an apple slicer that you push down on top oftheapple that removes the core and splits the rest in sections. I imaginetheproduction builders' slicer was mechanized somehow. That would take alotof force to split it by hand, wouldn't it? Brian ThomanThe Chattahoochee River Rod CompanyParker, Coloradohttp://www.bambooflyrods.com(303) 805-5733 -----Original Message-----From: Gerald Buckley [SMTP:GeraldB@Pennwell.com]Sent: Friday, March 05, 1999 2:17 PM Subject: RE: culm splitter Stefan Also, in the Winston Water's video that the R.L. Winston rod companyproduced, Glenn Brackett is seen using such a unit and I think it was a12-splitter. Might be a useful video for you if a pattern is needed. Gerald------=_NextPart_000_01BE673E.42FC0B00 Well, hey, what about the =froe -- used in the old days by roofers to split out cedar or oak = Thoman, = = produced, Glenn Brackett is seen using such a unit and I think it was = ------=_NextPart_000_01BE673E.42FC0B00-- from HARMS1@prodigy.net Fri Mar 5 18:32:56 1999 Fri, 5 Mar 1999 19:32:48 -0500 Subject: Re: culm splitter =_NextPart_000_01BE673E.C1CFB1C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE673E.C1CFB1C0 Yeah, I think Popeil makes one -- you know, the same folks who broughtyouthe "Salad Shooter." You just stick one end of the culm in, and crankthat sucker!---------- Subject: culm splitter Dear friends Read in the biography about Dickerson that he used a "culmsplitter". A tool to split the culm at once in 12 or 24 strips. Anybodynows where such an tool is to buy or how to make one self? regards andthanks Stefan ------=_NextPart_000_01BE673E.C1CFB1C0 Yeah, I think Popeil makes =one -- you know, the same folks who brought you the "Salad = in the biography about Dickerson that he used a "culm =splitter". A tool to split the culm at once in 12 or 24 strips. = ------=_NextPart_000_01BE673E.C1CFB1C0-- from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Mar 5 18:59:26 1999 Subject: happy99 exe virus All,This is not rodbuilding per se but the info on the virus analysis has allbeen for pc's and as I have a mac and am having forwarding problems doesanyone know how to tell if the mac is infested?TIAHank W. from maxs@geocities.co.jp Fri Mar 5 19:05:38 1999 bysv01.geocities.co.jp (8.9.3+3.1W/3.7W) with ESMTP id KAA24259; Sat, 6Mar 1999 10:05:34 +0900(JST) mail.geocities.co.jp (1.3G-8.9.3/GeocitiesJ-3.0) with ESMTP id KAA26402;Sat, 6 Mar 199910:05:32 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: culm splitter Hello guys, Thank you, Dick for referring to my web. The gadget works well most of the time, but not sometimes. It depends on the area shape of a culm how good it works and how tolocate the blade at the first time. I'll locate you to the pictures of example, which my colleagesexperienced. (Just refer to the pictures only, text are in Japanese) http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Harbor/3757/FLYFISHING/SPLIT/split1.html http://member.nifty.ne.jp/nakahama/buildingframe.htm To have all the same width of strips, you should measure and mark theexactone-sixth on the culm, make short splits by a nife in even intervals(this would assure it),about 2 to 3 inches at the edge of the culm at first. Then, you locate each blade into the split and press down. It willwork. If you locate six blades into the correct place very carefully,it also may work but it depends on the shape of a cane. Imagine a longcircle. There is follow up method of spltting after having six even strips inURL below; (this is in English) http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/cane/splitting.html hope these will help.Would you please write comments on each of GuestBooks when you happentovisit each of above? Max-- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod dickfuhrman@rheemote.com wrote: I believe that at one time Max Satoh had a picture of one of these onhis web page. Also some one has one of these in their catalog. I havethat on file on my computer at home. If I think about it tonight I'llpost both Max's web page address and the catalog that it is in. Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net BT>I was talking with a production builder the other day and hementioned theBT>culm splitter. It's like an apple slicer that you push down on top oftheBT>apple that removes the core and splits the rest in sections. I imaginetheBT>production builders' slicer was mechanized somehow. That wouldtake a lotBT>of force to split it by hand, wouldn't it? BT>Brian ThomanBT>The Chattahoochee River Rod CompanyBT>Parker, ColoradoBT>http://www.bambooflyrods.comBT>(303) 805-5733 BT>> -----Original Message-----BT>> From: Gerald Buckley [SMTP:GeraldB@Pennwell.com]BT>> Sent: Friday, March 05, 1999 2:17 PM BT>> Subject: RE: culm splitterBT>>BT>> StefanBT>>BT>> Also, in the Winston Water's video that the R.L. Winston rodcompanyBT>> produced, Glenn Brackett is seen using such a unit and I think it wasaBT>> 12-splitter. Might be a useful video for you if a pattern is needed.BT>>BT>> Gerald -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod from MasjC1@aol.com Fri Mar 5 19:09:01 1999 Subject: Re: guides Stuart, You don't say if it is a 2 or 3 piece. The guide spacing and size for my "SirD" 2 piece is as follows: 4 1/2" 1/09 3/4" 1/015 3/4" 1/022 3/8" 1/029 1/8" 1/036 3/8" 1/044" 1 (immediately below ferrule)51" 359" 10mm stripper 4 3/4" 1/010" 1/016 1/4" 1/023" 1/030" 1/037" 144 1/4" 251" 359" 8.5 mm agatine stripper All measurements are from the Tip. The difference between the 2 and 3pieceis in the placement of the guides due to the ferrule locations. Mark Cole from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Fri Mar 5 19:54:51 1999 Subject: Re: happy99 exe virus On Fri, 5 Mar 1999 FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: All,This is not rodbuilding per se but the info on the virus analysis has allbeen for pc's and as I have a mac and am having forwarding problemsdoesanyone know how to tell if the mac is infested? To check if your Apple is infested look for slime trails from the worms . Also listen for the chewing sounds. Still no luck maybe a copy of SAM 4.5 (Symantec AntiVirus for Mac) willhelp. I don't think you have a virus causing fowarding problems though. Regards, Bob TIAHank W. from maxs@geocities.co.jp Fri Mar 5 19:58:29 1999 bysv01.geocities.co.jp (8.9.3+3.1W/3.7W) with ESMTP id KAA27495; Sat, 6Mar 1999 10:58:25 +0900(JST) mail.geocities.co.jp (1.3G-8.9.3/GeocitiesJ-3.0) with ESMTP id KAA28152;Sat, 6 Mar 199910:58:23 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Help with archives--Bamboo species Hello Mike and Bill, Tonkin is the best species for a rod. This should be succeeded withoutany doubt. There are several species of bamboo in my country and several fly rodbuilders made fly rods from those species. But not many, only a fewguys are doing so. Other species do not have such a strong elasticity asTonkin. Fibers are thinner than Tonkin. Internode length is shorter than Tonkin. Various experiments must had been made in the past by various (larger)rod makers in the world on its elasticity. Though the results were notopened.Tonkin was used in the skii stocks before, do you remember hex skistock? All the rod makers, builders in Japan are using imported Tonkin from USor from China, even though they have various species in own country.Some guys are still experimenting how to harden the Japanese bamboostrips. It is natural for the people to have this question at first.As this is an easy experiment to show the difference of elasticity, Ithink I could post the result in a couple of months. Just hanging down the same weight on to the stripof several different species. species, visit below; http://web.kyoto-inet.or.jp/people/takehei/http://home2.highway.or.jp/y- asai/natural.htm#tennen You can see internodal length is all shorter than Tonkin at everyJapanese species.It is important reason of using Tonkin. I heard, other than Tonkin, Culcutta Cane was once used in old days.I also heard that Hardy brought back Japanese species in old days(befoere WW2) and made fly rod but not known if it is sold or in whichmodel. Max -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod WILLIAM A HARMS wrote: Mike, On the contrary, this is NOT "basic stuff." The truth is that mostof us have no idea why Tonkin cane is better than any of the otherspecies, and have satisfied ourselves that it is so because othersbefore us have sworn to it. We know what properties Tonkinpossesses, and why we want them, but we do not have much of a basis a few other bamboos that have been tried and discarded, but thatdoesn't strike me as a very good reason to assume that Tonkin is the"only way to go." Among the dozens and dozens of Arundinaria, Semi-Arundinaria andPhyllostachys bamboos growing all over Asia and elsewhere, it'simpossible for me to believe that Tonkin is the only answer for arodmaker. We really just don't know. I mean, who among us has everhad the resources and the time to search this thing out? So, we gowith what we know -- and it ain't bad. A couple references on bamboo, by the way, are F.A. McClure, TheBamboos( 1993 Smithsonian Institution reprint of a Harvard University 1966first edition), and the wonderfully illustrated General Catalogue ofLa Bambouseraie (Europe's largest bamboo nursery. Cheers, Bill ----------From: michael w shaffer Subject: Help with archives--Bamboo speciesDate: Friday, March 05, 1999 3:47 AM As a rookie, I have just finished an unsuccessful search of thearchives. Iwas looking for some admittedly ground level information aboutbamboo. I wassearching for any discussions/information about why Tonkin cane isthespecies of choice for rods, as opposed to other bamboo from otherareas.Very basic 'stuff', I realize, but I need to start somewhere!If someone could give me a key word or two to find this info in thearchives, I won't take up any more list bandwidth about thissubject.Thank you for your time, Mike Docmschaffer@mindspring.com from maxs@geocities.co.jp Fri Mar 5 20:11:02 1999 bysv01.geocities.co.jp (8.9.3+3.1W/3.7W) with ESMTP id LAA11376; Sat, 6Mar 1999 11:10:59 +0900(JST) mail.geocities.co.jp (1.3G-8.9.3/GeocitiesJ-3.0) with ESMTP id LAA06241;Sat, 6 Mar 199911:10:57 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: culm splitter Sorry Guys, The last URL below is in Japanese.Please refer this one, this is in English. http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/cane/splitting-2.html Max Max Satoh wrote: Hello guys, Thank you, Dick for referring to my web. The gadget works well most of the time, but not sometimes. It depends on the area shape of a culm how good it works and how tolocate the blade at the first time. I'll locate you to the pictures of example, which my colleagesexperienced. (Just refer to the pictures only, text are in Japanese) http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Harbor/3757/FLYFISHING/SPLIT/split1.html http://member.nifty.ne.jp/nakahama/buildingframe.htm To have all the same width of strips, you should measure and mark theexactone-sixth on the culm, make short splits by a nife in even intervals(this would assure it),about 2 to 3 inches at the edge of the culm at first.Then, you locate each blade into the split and press down. It willwork. If you locate six blades into the correct place very carefully,it also may work but it depends on the shape of a cane. Imagine a longcircle. There is follow up method of spltting after having six even strips inURL below; (this is in English) http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/cane/splitting.html hope these will help.Would you please write comments on each of GuestBooks when youhappen tovisit each of above? Max--Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod dickfuhrman@rheemote.com wrote: I believe that at one time Max Satoh had a picture of one of these onhis web page. Also some one has one of these in their catalog. I havethat on file on my computer at home. If I think about it tonight I'llpost both Max's web page address and the catalog that it is in. Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net BT>I was talking with a production builder the other day and hementioned theBT>culm splitter. It's like an apple slicer that you push down on top oftheBT>apple that removes the core and splits the rest in sections. Iimagine theBT>production builders' slicer was mechanized somehow. That wouldtake a lotBT>of force to split it by hand, wouldn't it? BT>Brian ThomanBT>The Chattahoochee River Rod CompanyBT>Parker, ColoradoBT>http://www.bambooflyrods.comBT>(303) 805-5733 BT>> -----Original Message-----BT>> From: Gerald Buckley [SMTP:GeraldB@Pennwell.com]BT>> Sent: Friday, March 05, 1999 2:17 PM BT>> Subject: RE: culm splitterBT>>BT>> StefanBT>>BT>> Also, in the Winston Water's video that the R.L. Winston rodcompanyBT>> produced, Glenn Brackett is seen using such a unit and I think itwas aBT>> 12-splitter. Might be a useful video for you if a pattern is needed.BT>>BT>> Gerald --Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Mar 5 20:44:55 1999 Sat, 6 Mar 1999 10:42:50 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: happy99 exe virus On Fri, 5 Mar 1999 FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: All,This is not rodbuilding per se but the info on the virus analysis has allbeen for pc's and as I have a mac and am having forwarding problemsdoesanyone know how to tell if the mac is infested?TIAHank W. Mac's don't have a problem with happy99. Tony /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb? A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from chris@artistree.com Fri Mar 5 21:49:21 1999 Subject: Re: happy99 exe virus mac-creator="4D4F5353" Hank,I use a MAC as well as Windows. One of the MANY benefits of using theMAC OS iswe just don't have nearly as many problems with viruses as Windowsmachines.But there are a few out there (especially effecting MS Word) and all thegoodMAC tech people use "Virex." To date it's the best by far at catchingeverything, especially the worm viruses. Best Regards,Chris Wohlford p.s.- Happy99 is not a problem for the MAC. FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: All,This is not rodbuilding per se but the info on the virus analysis has allbeen for pc's and as I have a mac and am having forwarding problemsdoesanyone know how to tell if the mac is infested?TIAHank W. from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Fri Mar 5 23:38:40 1999 ix12.ix.netcom.com via smap(V1.3) Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Impregnation OK. I tried it and it worked!. I bought a 6" by 1 1/4" galvanized nippleand two end caps at the local building supply. I drilled a hole in one ofthe caps and threaded it to take a compressed air line fitting. Total costunder $5. I had some liquid plexiglas I had made for some head cement. This is made finished filling the jar with acetone and let it set for three or fourdays. At that time I had a plexiglas syrup; looks like clear Kayro syrup.I added some clear model airplane dope (about 20% to the plexiglas) anddiluted with acetone to a watery consistency. I put a piece of maple inthe "chamber", filled it with the "soup", connected the airline and ran thepressure up to 100 psi. I let it set overnight and took it out nextmorning. It was completely saturated. I let it dry for a week and turnedit down on the lathe. It turns well and the plastic doesn't show; except of finish. I also stained another piece of maple this way. My grandson wants yellowtrim for his rod so I picked up some yellow aneline dye powder at thewoodcraft store. Turned out to be enough to stain several lifetimes of reelinserts. I mixed it up in a solution of denatured alcohol, isopropylalcohol and acetone; about 30% each. Overnight under 100 psi and it was abright lemon yellow; all the way through. I let it dry for a few days andrepeated the impregnation. Increased the plexiglas content some; sameresult as the first. Both pieces made nice reel inserts. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com OK. What if a guy got a short piece of threaded galvanized pipe and twoend caps. Drill and tap one end to take an air fitting. Fill the"chamber" with liquid and wood and screw the cap on and hook it to acompressor and run about a hundred pounds of pressure on it for about 24hours? A vacuum pump would be nice to extract the air from the woodbeforeputting in the liquid an pressure but since I don't have one, I guess hewould have to do without. What about using plexiglas for impregnation. It can be dissolved inacetone and after removal from the "chamber" should leave the sampleprettyquickly. Again a vacuum pump would be nice to increase the rate ofevaporation. Any comments? Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Sat Mar 6 00:01:36 1999 Subject: Re: happy99 exe virus On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Chris Wohlford wrote: Hank,I use a MAC as well as Windows. One of the MANY benefits of using theMAC OS iswe just don't have nearly as many problems with viruses as Windowsmachines.But there are a few out there (especially effecting MS Word) and all thegoodMAC tech people use "Virex." To date it's the best by far at catchingeverything, especially the worm viruses. Hi Chris, I have Virex. Also have McAfee Virus Scan. Haven't found a Mac Virus orWorm with any of these programs ever. Checked lots of Machines. Regards, Bob from chris@artistree.com Sat Mar 6 02:28:49 1999 Subject: Re: happy99 exe virus mac-creator="4D4F5353" Hi Bob,You know...I think I have a few breeding on some diskettes if you wouldlike one.Just kidding ;) Best Regards,Chris W*&^o**h**l^%$f_&^o$#r$$%%d^^%$#$8))_-- 0**(&^&%^^&-098)_(*^*%&^$^8765(*&^%(*&^&B *)(B ^*%^(*TT*(T*&T)&YT(Y&IUHKJ.........????????????? Hi Chris, I have Virex. Also have McAfee Virus Scan. Haven't found a Mac Virus orWorm with any of these programs ever. Checked lots of Machines. Regards, Bob from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Sat Mar 6 07:37:18 1999 Subject: Re: happy99 exe virus Throw in a few worms and you got a deal. I've got an old Mac that I canfeed them to. Then see if this Virus software is worth it's salt! Regards, Bob On Sat, 6 Mar 1999, Chris Wohlford wrote: Hi Bob,You know...I think I have a few breeding on some diskettes if you wouldlike one.Just kidding ;) Best Regards,Chris W*&^o**h**l^%$f_&^o$#r$$%%d^^%$#$8))_-- 0**(&^&%^^&-098)_(*^*%&^$^8765(*&^%(*&^&B *)(B ^*%^(*TT*(T*&T)&YT(Y&IUHKJ.........????????????? Hi Chris, I have Virex. Also have McAfee Virus Scan. Haven't found a Mac VirusorWorm with any of these programs ever. Checked lots of Machines. Regards, Bob from maxs@geocities.co.jp Sat Mar 6 07:41:57 1999 bysv01.geocities.co.jp (8.9.3+3.1W/3.7W) with ESMTP id WAA04978; Sat, 6Mar 1999 22:41:54 +0900(JST) mail.geocities.co.jp (1.3G-8.9.3/GeocitiesJ-3.0) with ESMTP idWAA05956; Sat, 6 Mar 199922:41:52 +0900 (JST) Subject: [Fwd: Splitting gadget] 149A4E55C55C78E6432A7FA5" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 149A4E55C55C78E6432A7FA5 Hi, Please find the archive attached. -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod-------------- 149A4E55C55C78E6432A7FA5 Subject: Re: Splitting gadget Hida carries quite a few tools maybe they don't have it listed on theirweb page. Catalog has the following "Bamboo Splitters":3-way, 4-way, 5-way, 6- way, 7-way, 8-way, 10-way, and a 12-way. Priceof3-way is $20, 6-way $43 and the 12 way $110. Approx. diameter for 3-waythrough 6-way is between 4" and 5". 12 way is 8.5" in diameter. Givethem a call for more info @ 1-800- 443-5512 Pacific time.-- Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com Stuart Tod wrote: I looked for the Hida Tool page ,found about 20 pages, no mention of asplitting tool. Does it have a different name or am I looking in thewrong place? --------------149A4E55C55C78E6432A7FA5-- from rcurry@ttlc.net Sat Mar 6 08:07:00 1999 (SMTPD32-4.07) id A6DB74C00E8; Sat, 06 Mar 1999 09:08:27 EST Subject: Re: Help with archives--Bamboo species Mike,A short historical treatise gleaned from reading and collecting:I have 3 or 4 Calcutta cane rods that I like very much. Calcutta was thecane of choice until approx. 1915. However, Calcutta suffered from insectattackand scarring; 50% waste was not uncommon. When Tonkin was first usedbyrodmakers it was because they saved so much in waste. However, they hadto use aMadison Ave. approach toward their customers, who were accustomed toCalcutta.So they began to imitate the black marks of Calcutta with burn marks(fromKeane, but may be apocryphal). Then Bill Edwards, Sr., invented/discoveredheat-treating to darken the rods uniformly, and Tonkin became moreattractive tothe public. [Orvis took the next step in reducing waste by using a darkimpregnation that had the side effect of blending inconsistencies incoloring.Much the way all walnut in the U.S. has a purple dye imparted during thedryingprocess. This colors the sapwood, allowing wood suppliers to market anotherwisedifficult to match piece .]As I recall from Keane's book, it was Dickerson who waxed poetic aboutsomerods he had made from Calcutta.Conclusion: Tonkin isn't the only game in town, but it is an excellentcaneand readily available. Please try others and report back.Best regards,Reed michael w shaffer wrote: As a rookie, I have just finished an unsuccessful search of the archives. Iwas looking for some admittedly ground level information about bamboo.I wassearching for any discussions/information about why Tonkin cane is thespecies of choice for rods, as opposed to other bamboo from other areas. from anglport@con2.com Sat Mar 6 08:09:09 1999 Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Impregnation Onis,You da man!!!!Care to divulge any proportions to give others a leg up? If not Iunderstand.Art At 11:34 PM 3/5/99 -0600, Onis Cogburn wrote:OK. I tried it and it worked!. I bought a 6" by 1 1/4" galvanized nippleand two end caps at the local building supply. I drilled a hole in one ofthe caps and threaded it to take a compressed air line fitting. Total costunder $5. I had some liquid plexiglas I had made for some head cement. This ismade finished filling the jar with acetone and let it set for three or fourdays. At that time I had a plexiglas syrup; looks like clear Kayro syrup.I added some clear model airplane dope (about 20% to the plexiglas) anddiluted with acetone to a watery consistency. I put a piece of maple inthe "chamber", filled it with the "soup", connected the airline and ran thepressure up to 100 psi. I let it set overnight and took it out nextmorning. It was completely saturated. I let it dry for a week and turnedit down on the lathe. It turns well and the plastic doesn't show; except of finish. I also stained another piece of maple this way. My grandson wantsyellowtrim for his rod so I picked up some yellow aneline dye powder at thewoodcraft store. Turned out to be enough to stain several lifetimes of reelinserts. I mixed it up in a solution of denatured alcohol, isopropylalcohol and acetone; about 30% each. Overnight under 100 psi and it wasabright lemon yellow; all the way through. I let it dry for a few days andrepeated the impregnation. Increased the plexiglas content some; sameresult as the first. Both pieces made nice reel inserts. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com OK. What if a guy got a short piece of threaded galvanized pipe and twoend caps. Drill and tap one end to take an air fitting. Fill the"chamber" with liquid and wood and screw the cap on and hook it to acompressor and run about a hundred pounds of pressure on it for about 24hours? A vacuum pump would be nice to extract the air from the woodbeforeputting in the liquid an pressure but since I don't have one, I guess hewould have to do without. What about using plexiglas for impregnation. It can be dissolved inacetone and after removal from the "chamber" should leave the sampleprettyquickly. Again a vacuum pump would be nice to increase the rate ofevaporation. Any comments? Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from maxs@geocities.co.jp Sat Mar 6 08:11:32 1999 bysv01.geocities.co.jp (8.9.3+3.1W/3.7W) with ESMTP id XAA00423; Sat, 6Mar 1999 23:11:28 +0900(JST) mail.geocities.co.jp (1.3G-8.9.3/GeocitiesJ-3.0) with ESMTP id XAA10374;Sat, 6 Mar 199923:11:26 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Help with archives--Bamboo species Hi Mike, I uploaded a picture which shows how power fibers are spread aroundcomparing between Tonkin and Moso. Moso is one of Japanese species. You can find it hasa large diameter withless fibers. Find below; http://www.geocities.com:80/Yosemite/Forest/3040/cane/tonkinmoso.jpg Max michael w shaffer wrote: As a rookie, I have just finished an unsuccessful search of the archives. Iwas looking for some admittedly ground level information about bamboo.I wassearching for any discussions/information about why Tonkin cane is thespecies of choice for rods, as opposed to other bamboo from other areas.Very basic 'stuff', I realize, but I need to start somewhere!If someone could give me a key word or two to find this info in thearchives, I won't take up any more list bandwidth about this subject.Thank you for your time, Mike Docmschaffer@mindspring.com -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Sat Mar 6 09:12:29 1999 Sat, 6 Mar 1999 16:12:17 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: Help with archives--Bamboo species When i made my first rods - in 1994 - i do not have an Internet-Account orany other information about split cane rodmaking, except an article in agerman flyfishing magazine.My first rods was made from "garden bamboo", means i used bamboo from agarden center, small and short splines, ca. 60 cm long, normally used forstick plants high.Also today i do not know the species of this bamboos, but must say myfistrods wasn`t so bad.Shure, from my todays view and experience, this rods are more flexiblethanthese made from tonkin, but i do not have any sets in the blanks after 4years of fishing with these poles.Because the lenght of the splines was only ca. 60 cm, i made first only3-pc. rods, for having a fishable lenght, but it worked.Shure, the optical references of this rods are not very professional, butalso today i have a rod taper from these times, i never copied with thesamesucces.Anyway, today i use Tonkin and made only priestsan wading staffs from the other "garden bamboo". I i have requests from beginners in cane rodbuilding, i recomand thesegarden bamboos for make her first experiences in planing and gluing,becauseit`s so a cheap species. With the next months i will try to "mix" tonkin with other wooden splines,3made from tonkin, 3 made from another wood. Must look good, buth thinkit`sonly possible make a butt this way?! Sincerly Stefan -----Ursprèngliche Nachricht-----Von: Reed Curry An: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Datum: Samstag, 6. M€rz 1999 15:15Betreff: Re: Help with archives-- Bamboo species Mike,A short historical treatise gleaned from reading and collecting:I have 3 or 4 Calcutta cane rods that I like very much. Calcutta wasthecane of choice until approx. 1915. However, Calcutta suffered from insectattackand scarring; 50% waste was not uncommon. When Tonkin was first usedbyrodmakers it was because they saved so much in waste. However, theyhad touse aMadison Ave. approach toward their customers, who were accustomed toCalcutta.So they began to imitate the black marks of Calcutta with burn marks(fromKeane, but may be apocryphal). Then Bill Edwards, Sr.,invented/discoveredheat-treating to darken the rods uniformly, and Tonkin became moreattractive tothe public. [Orvis took the next step in reducing waste by using a darkimpregnation that had the side effect of blending inconsistencies incoloring.Much the way all walnut in the U.S. has a purple dye imparted during thedryingprocess. This colors the sapwood, allowing wood suppliers to market anotherwisedifficult to match piece .]As I recall from Keane's book, it was Dickerson who waxed poeticaboutsomerods he had made from Calcutta.Conclusion: Tonkin isn't the only game in town, but it is an excellentcaneand readily available. Please try others and report back.Best regards,Reed michael w shaffer wrote: As a rookie, I have just finished an unsuccessful search of the archives.Iwas looking for some admittedly ground level information aboutbamboo. Iwassearching for any discussions/information about why Tonkin cane is thespecies of choice for rods, as opposed to other bamboo from otherareas. from Craig.Naldrett@ibm.net Sat Mar 6 09:46:32 1999 (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA88542 for; Sat, 6 Mar 199915:46:29 GMT Subject: Testing My E-Mail Several recent e-mails seem to have gone astray, just checking my outputto the list directly. from Craig.Naldrett@ibm.net Sat Mar 6 09:51:08 1999 (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA11182 for ;Sat, 6 Mar 199915:51:05 GMT Subject: Second E-mail Test wonder if you got my mail (dated Mar 2 & Mar 3 respectively).CheersCraig from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Sat Mar 6 09:54:22 1999 ix12.ix.netcom.com via smap(V1.3) Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Impregnation Hi Art,Sure, I keep no secrets. I didn't measure anything. I stuffed theplexiglas in a jar and covered it with acetone. About twice as muchvolumeof acetone to plexiglas will make a good syrup. (about 3 days later), Thinwith acetone to make it the same viscosity as the dope. Add the cleardopein the proportions 5 to 1 to 10 to 1 plexiglas "syrup" to dope. I addedthe dope to make the mixture adhesive. Then I poured in enough acetone tothin it to about the consistency of milk. The proportions are notcritical. A mixture of more than 20% dope turned out the same as amixtureof less than 10% dope. alcohol. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com Onis,You da man!!!!Care to divulge any proportions to give others a leg up? If not Iunderstand.Art from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Sat Mar 6 10:00:39 1999 ix12.ix.netcom.com via smap(V1.3) Subject: Re: Help with archives--Bamboo species What species is "Calctta"? What climate does it grow in? I've thoughtabout growing Tonkin but the temperature in central Arkansas is a bit cold(I think). Perhaps the Calcutta could be protected from insects. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com A short historical treatise gleaned from reading and collecting:I have 3 or 4 Calcutta cane rods that I like very much. Calcutta was thecane of choice until approx. 1915. However, Calcutta suffered from insectattackand scarring; 50% waste was not uncommon. When Tonkin was first usedbyrodmakers it was because they saved so much in waste. from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Mar 6 10:09:33 1999 natco.southshore.com(8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA28438 for ;Sat, 6 Mar 199910:11:30 -0600 Subject: Rod Making Hi List,Hope this is not out of line.We will have two list members demonstrating Bamboo Rod Making at theSowbug Roundup to be held on March 19-20 in Mt. Home Arkansas. Contactme for information.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Mar 6 10:56:35 1999 Subject: Quality Control The other day I was in a fly fishing store, and there wasa guy admiring a new three piece bamboo rod made knows that I make rods, and asked my opinion of therod. As I gave it the wiggle test the snake guide spacingslooked a little odd. I looked closer and the guides on themiddle section were wrapped on backwards! The spacingincreased going from the lower end to the upper end, andthe wire diameter of the snake guides was thicker at theupper end. I can see how this might happen, the middle section doesn'thave a real distinctive feature to spot which way is up, like thetip top or handle on the other sections, but for a $2500 rod, Iwould expect a little better quality control. I don't know if the customer was really serious about buying the rod, but hedecided to pass on it. Darryl from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sat Mar 6 13:54:43 1999 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1998.03.08.20.27)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, Subject: Olaf Would anyone know the e-mail of a list member named Olaf? I lost it. Thanks, Richard from rcurry@ttlc.net Sat Mar 6 14:22:05 1999 (SMTPD32-4.07) id AEC17890160; Sat, 06 Mar 1999 15:23:29 EST Subject: Re: Olaf Richard,The illustrious Olaf may be found at"Borge, Olaf A." If you need the email addresses of any list-members (who are notshrinking violets that hide their membership), simply send thelistproc@wugate.wustl.eduthe text Review Rodmakers Best regards,Reed Richard Nantel wrote: Would anyone know the e-mail of a list member named Olaf? I lost it. Thanks, Richard from rcurry@ttlc.net Sat Mar 6 14:50:57 1999 (SMTPD32-4.07) id A58446400CE; Sat, 06 Mar 1999 15:52:20 EST Subject: Re: Help with archives--Bamboo species Onis,Not as interesting a subject as your work with solvents (I thought theonlysolvent you used down there was a liver-hardener made from corn?).Here is a clipping: Dendrocalamus strictus _ Calcutta bamboo, Pai sang doi, bambubatu, hau jongNON-INVASIVE HT: 50-100 FT. / 5" CANESThis industrial quality bamboo is perhaps the most cultivatedbambooaround the world. The compact clumps form hard, dense wood. Theshoots are edible, but timber is its primary use. The most DROUGHT-TOLERANT of the giants. Might have great bonsai potential. NewGeneration.-------------Of course, its hard to tell what might have been called "Calcuttacane" 90yearsago.Best regards,Reed Onis Cogburn wrote: What species is "Calctta"? What climate does it grow in? I've thoughtabout growing Tonkin but the temperature in central Arkansas is a bitcold(I think). Perhaps the Calcutta could be protected from insects. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com A short historical treatise gleaned from reading and collecting:I have 3 or 4 Calcutta cane rods that I like very much. Calcutta wasthecane of choice until approx. 1915. However, Calcutta suffered frominsectattackand scarring; 50% waste was not uncommon. When Tonkin was first usedbyrodmakers it was because they saved so much in waste. from HARMS1@prodigy.net Sat Mar 6 18:20:40 1999 Sat, 6 Mar 1999 19:20:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Help with archives--Bamboo species =_NextPart_000_01BE6806.33E523E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE6806.33E523E0 "Calcutta" cane, as I understand it, is one of the species that hasproven not to be the equal of Tonkin. As to growing your own cane, thereare dozens of species that are currently being grown all over the UnitedStates. Just type "bamboo" in your search engine (or "American BambooSociety") and watch the stuff come up. There are commercial nurseriesallover this country, specializing in plants that have been proven hardy foreach area (well, maybe not North Dakota). You can grow any number ofspecies almost anywhere. That's not the problem. The problem is findingthe species, the soil and the climate that will produce cane as hard, stiffand straight as the Tonkin that is readily available already. On the other hand, I don't know that any rod makers have actuallyresearched the issue. It sure would be fun to grow one's own cane andhaveresults as good or better than Tonkin. Cheers, Bill ----------From: Onis Cogburn Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Help with archives--Bamboo speciesDate: Saturday, March 06, 1999 7:56 AM What species is "Calctta"? What climate does it grow in? I've thoughtabout growing Tonkin but the temperature in central Arkansas is a bitcold(I think). Perhaps the Calcutta could be protected from insects. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com A short historical treatise gleaned from reading and collecting:I have 3 or 4 Calcutta cane rods that I like very much. Calcutta wasthecane of choice until approx. 1915. However, Calcutta suffered frominsectattackand scarring; 50% waste was not uncommon. When Tonkin was first usedbyrodmakers it was because they saved so much in waste.------=_NextPart_000_01BE6806.33E523E0 "Calcutta" = there are dozens of species that are currently being grown all over the = country, specializing in plants that have been proven hardy for each = problem =is finding the species, the soil and the climate that will produce cane =as hard, stiff and straight as the Tonkin that is readily available =already.On the other hand, I don't know that any rod makers have = own cane and have results as good or better than Tonkin.Cheers, = in? = scarring; 50% waste was not uncommon. When Tonkin was first used = ------=_NextPart_000_01BE6806.33E523E0-- from ballard@orion.wes.army.mil Sat Mar 6 20:14:43 1999 with Novell_GroupWise; Sat, 06 Mar 1999 20:19:58 -0600 ; Sat, 6 Mar 99 20:19:46 CST Subject: RE: Re: Help with archives--Bamboo species Bill, I have a small clump growing in my yard. It will be at least 5-6 (or moredepending on what you read) years before it will be large and old enough touse. I planted it last summer and so far it survived our Mississippi winterwith minor effects. I worry more about it during our awful summers...Even if it doesn't thrive enough to use, it's kinda nice having onein the yard. Personally I do think there is somewhere in the Americas that Tonkin willgrowjust a well as China, but we won't know until we try and even thenit's a long term project. -Jerry BallardVicksburg, MS from mschaffer@mindspring.com Sat Mar 6 21:00:49 1999 Subject: 'Light' weight cane rods? First off, I would like to thank all the folks who responded to my questionabout bamboo species, and why Tonkin is preferred--at least now I have alittle better idea. Again, although I haven't made any cane rods, from what I've seenmentionedas rods for sale, etc., it seems that most of the cane rods are 5wt andabove. Are rods made to handle the lighter line weights of 2-3wt? And isthere any greater difficulty in making a rod of 6-7 feet in length asopposed to the seemingly more common 7 1/2-8foot length? The gray haired babe in the woods,Docmschaffer@mindspring.com from WayneCatt@aol.com Sat Mar 6 23:50:20 1999 Subject: Re: 'Light' weight cane rods? Doc -What you see for sale and the prices depends on the source you areusing.True there are plenty of #5 weight and larger rods available - BUT - themorevaluable rods are those less than #5 and with lengths less than 8' - ANDtheshorter and lighter rods can attract a few more dollars. It has to do withthefishing style of the earlier days and the fishing style today. The commonlyseen bamboo rod by most folks is the 8 1/2' - 9' #6 or #7 production rod -these are the rods that made up the bulk of rod production of the 40's &50's- as you get into the 60's & 70's the length and line weights were reducedbutso were the production numbers and many of the 'majors' had vanishedleavingmore of a higher end producer. from the 70's thru today as the 'industry'became more cottage industry based - you will see more and more lighterandshorter rods - but with less production yet. Today there are manyspecialitymakers - the one that comes to mind the most is good friend Carlos Santos- hemakes his rods geared to mountain stream brook trout - 5' 6" & 4' 4" even.Buthe like that majority of the list produces only a handful of rods each yearand they are usually held onto by those that have them.Another influence that you often see is the regional diversity -eastern rodsare for trout and western rods usually are longer and heavier for thebiggerstreams and salmon and steelhead - but there are the exceptions. If youaresearching for a rod to make I would recommend that you sort out what rodwouldyou use the most for the style fishing that you do. from maxs@geocities.co.jp Sun Mar 7 03:23:22 1999 bysv01.geocities.co.jp (8.9.3+3.1W/3.7W) with ESMTP id SAA13152 for; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 18:23:17 +0900 (JST) mail.geocities.co.jp (1.3G-8.9.3/GeocitiesJ-3.0) with ESMTP id SAA00714for; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 18:23:16 +0900 (JST) Subject: Soldered Moisture Cap Hello, There was a happening to one of my colleagues.He sufferred of slipping out of female ferrule on three of the rods hemade.He was using ferrules which have moisture caps soldered inside.After normally glued onto the rod end, he sanded male ferules to matchwith female sleeve using water proof sand paper with CRC (a kind of oilused to get rid of stain). Probably CRC was left remained inside offemale ferrules while adjusting the diameter with male. (and pomping in He experimented by entering CRC into the female sleeve and found thatCRC came out from the other end through moisture cap. Thus he foundthat moisture cap had invisible gap in female ferrules. Just want to let you know this happened. Max -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod from dmanders@telusplanet.net Sun Mar 7 07:42:19 1999 don") by eeyore.eon.netwith SMTP id ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 06:41:59 -0700 Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Impregnation Onis, Have tried to get information of impregnation - looks like this is justthe thing for the basement builder. But what's the dope? You use it in your formulation but don't explain whatit is or how to make it.Please help. Don At 09:49 AM 3/6/99 -0600, Onis Cogburn wrote:Hi Art,Sure, I keep no secrets. I didn't measure anything. I stuffed theplexiglas in a jar and covered it with acetone. About twice as muchvolumeof acetone to plexiglas will make a good syrup. (about 3 days later), Thinwith acetone to make it the same viscosity as the dope. Add the cleardopein the proportions 5 to 1 to 10 to 1 plexiglas "syrup" to dope. I addedthe dope to make the mixture adhesive. Then I poured in enough acetonetothin it to about the consistency of milk. The proportions are notcritical. A mixture of more than 20% dope turned out the same as amixtureof less than 10% dope. alcohol. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com Onis,You da man!!!!Care to divulge any proportions to give others a leg up? If not Iunderstand.Art from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sun Mar 7 08:01:01 1999 Sun, 7 Mar 1999 07:58:26 -0600 Subject: Re: 'Light' weight cane rods? Doc,You might take a quick glance at the taper listings on Jerry Foster'sRodmakers page at:http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htmYou'll find a plethora of short, light-line tapers there. In fact, theyseem to dominate. Finding a good 8' 4 wieght has been a challenge. I'vemadea couple of 2 weights, one three, and lots of fours. I hope you'll get tocastthem this fall at the SRG.Harry michael w shaffer wrote: First off, I would like to thank all the folks who responded to myquestionabout bamboo species, and why Tonkin is preferred--at least now I havealittle better idea. Again, although I haven't made any cane rods, from what I've seenmentionedas rods for sale, etc., it seems that most of the cane rods are 5wt andabove. Are rods made to handle the lighter line weights of 2-3wt? And isthere any greater difficulty in making a rod of 6-7 feet in length asopposed to the seemingly more common 7 1/2-8foot length? The gray haired babe in the woods,Docmschaffer@mindspring.com from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Sun Mar 7 08:28:00 1999 ix1.ix.netcom.com via smap(V1.3) Subject: Re: Was humidity in non-varnished blank, is now Impregnation Hi Don,Dope is model airplane paint. It's sold by every RC model airplanestore.It's a lacquer based paint (I think). Used in the early part of thecentury to paint canvass covered airplanes and was the basic formula forfinger nail polish. Dries thin and hard. I felt the plexiglas needed someadhesion so I used it. Get the clear. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com Onis, Have tried to get information of impregnation - looks like this is justthe thing for the basement builder. But what's the dope? You use it in your formulation but don't explain whatit is or how to make it.Please help. Don At 09:49 AM 3/6/99 -0600, Onis Cogburn wrote:Hi Art,Sure, I keep no secrets. I didn't measure anything. I stuffed theplexiglas in a jar and covered it with acetone. About twice as muchvolumeof acetone to plexiglas will make a good syrup. (about 3 days later),Thinwith acetone to make it the same viscosity as the dope. Add the cleardopein the proportions 5 to 1 to 10 to 1 plexiglas "syrup" to dope. I addedthe dope to make the mixture adhesive. Then I poured in enough acetonetothin it to about the consistency of milk. The proportions are notcritical. A mixture of more than 20% dope turned out the same as amixtureof less than 10% dope. alcohol. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com Onis,You da man!!!!Care to divulge any proportions to give others a leg up? If not Iunderstand.Art from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sun Mar 7 08:53:17 1999 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1998.03.08.20.27)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, Subject: Lathe noise My workshop is below my downstairs neighbor's living room so I mustavoidthe use of power tools. I am, however, hoping to get away with using asmalllathe to turn grips, make ferrules and reel seats. Is a lathe very noisy? Thanks in advance Richard from rcurry@ttlc.net Sun Mar 7 09:31:57 1999 (SMTPD32-4.07) id AC42800144; Sun, 07 Mar 1999 10:33:22 EST Subject: Interesting salesmanship of Cane rods All,This is one way to give cane rods a bad name. Check the followingURLhttp://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=74782462 Does anyone know who won the "National Split Bamboo Rod BuildingClassic in 1984"? Did you note the wrap on the butt section?Best regards,Reed from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Mar 7 10:06:51 1999 Subject: Re: Interesting salesmanship of Cane rods Reed Take another careful look and see how the fly reel is attached to thereel seat! I would like to see this rod - several other things look mightilysuspicious. Chris On Sun, 07 Mar 1999 10:35:50 -0500, Reed Curry wrote: All,This is one way to give cane rods a bad name. Check the followingURLhttp://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=74782462 Does anyone know who won the "National Split Bamboo Rod BuildingClassic in 1984"? Did you note the wrap on the butt section?Best regards,Reed Regards Chris from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sun Mar 7 10:17:15 1999 Sun, 7 Mar 1999 10:14:40 -0600 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Interesting salesmanship of Cane rods 3DEC380EBEF9581570496C3F" --------------3DEC380EBEF9581570496C3F Chris,Is it attached at all? Looks like an uplocking seat installed backwardson a bamboo(?)casting rod. I emailed "flyanger." Let's see if he answers my questions. Bet he doesn't -- Harry cbogart wrote: Reed Take another careful look and see how the fly reel is attached tothereel seat! I would like to see this rod - several other things lookmightily suspicious. Chris On Sun, 07 Mar 1999 10:35:50 -0500, Reed Curry wrote: All,This is one way to give cane rods a bad name. Check the followingURLhttp://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=74782462 Does anyone know who won the "National Split Bamboo Rod BuildingClassic in 1984"? Did you note the wrap on the butt section?Best regards,Reed Regards Chris --------------3DEC380EBEF9581570496C3F Chris, uplocking cbogart wrote:Reed lookand see how the fly reel is attached to the look mightily suspicious. On Sun, 07 Mar 1999 10:35:50 -0500, Reed Curry wrote:All, Checkthe followingURL http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=74782462 BambooRod BuildingClassic in 1984"? Did you note the wrap on the butt section?Best regards,Reed --------------3DEC380EBEF9581570496C3F-- from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sun Mar 7 10:38:12 1999 Subject: Re: Interesting salesmanship of Cane rods What the h*ll is that mess?!! from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Sun Mar 7 10:46:06 1999 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Interesting salesmanship of Cane rods Hi Reed, It just looks like instead of using the end cap to hold the aft reelfoot,he slid the ring down to the butt, stuck the foot into it from the wrongend and then used the threaded ring to hold the fore reelfoot. I wouldhate to see the chewed up reelfoot now. Regards, Bobflysupplies@yahoo.com On Sun, 7 Mar 1999, cbogart wrote: Reed Take another careful look and see how the fly reel is attached to thereel seat! I would like to see this rod - several other things lookmightily suspicious. Chris On Sun, 07 Mar 1999 10:35:50 -0500, Reed Curry wrote: All,This is one way to give cane rods a bad name. Check the followingURLhttp://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=74782462 Does anyone know who won the "National Split Bamboo Rod BuildingClassic in 1984"? Did you note the wrap on the butt section?Best regards,Reed Regards Chris from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sun Mar 7 11:03:35 1999 Subject: Re: Interesting salesmanship of Cane rods Okay, cooler head now...This imposter looks to be a 1 tip spinning rod. I'd bet a box of hooks thatlong wrap in front of the handle covers alot of glue and traces of cork. Iwonder if the sections are the same length?This kind of snake oil really burns me- I see it in music retail too. I'vebook marked it to see if some poor soul actually bids on it. I wonder if itwould go against a ebay rule if I emailed and warned the winning bidder toreturn it immediately after having a knowlegable person expect it. Rob from mrj@aa.net Sun Mar 7 11:31:38 1999 Sun, 7 Mar 1999 09:31:27 -0800 Subject: RE: Interesting salesmanship of Cane rods is there infact a "National Split Bamboo Rod Building Classic in 1984 "? -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Nodewrrior@aol.comSent: Sunday, March 07, 1999 9:02 AM Cc: rcurry@ttlc.net; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Interesting salesmanship of Cane rods Okay, cooler head now...This imposter looks to be a 1 tip spinning rod. I'd bet a box ofhooks thatlong wrap in front of the handle covers alot of glue and traces of cork. Iwonder if the sections are the same length?This kind of snake oil really burns me- I see it in music retail too. I'vebook marked it to see if some poor soul actually bids on it. Iwonder if itwould go against a ebay rule if I emailed and warned the winning biddertoreturn it immediately after having a knowlegable person expect it. Rob from freaner@gte.net Sun Mar 7 11:57:21 1999 Subject: Re: Interesting salesmanship of Cane rods At 12:01 PM -0500 3/7/99, Nodewrrior@aol.com wrote about Re:Interestingsalesmanship of Cane rodsOkay, cooler head now...This imposter looks to be a 1 tip spinning rod. I'd bet a box of hooks thatlong wrap in front of the handle covers alot of glue and traces of cork. Iwonder if the sections are the same length?This kind of snake oil really burns me- I see it in music retail too. I'vebook marked it to see if some poor soul actually bids on it. I wonder if itwould go against a ebay rule if I emailed and warned the winning biddertoreturn it immediately after having a knowlegable person expect it. What would happen if several of you that are knowledgeaable about thiswrote to the webmaster at ebay and suggested that this particular salewasnot what it reputed to be, but maybe seemed to be a "scam" of sorts? Claude from cotner@novagate.com Sun Mar 7 12:37:25 1999 Subject: Re: Interesting salesmanship of Cane rods pageof yesterday's Week-end Wall St. Journal about these web- basedauctioneers. Interesting reading, particularly in light of what thisgroup has exposed regarding the current offering. Conclusions: peopleoften pay more than retail; rampant fraud and impostor (art) works,etc. I second Claude's suggestion that those who know a whole lot moreaboutbamboo rods make eBay aware.Regards,Roger CotnerGrand Haven, Michigan Claude Freaner wrote: I wonder if itwould go against a ebay rule if I emailed and warned the winning biddertoreturn it immediately after having a knowlegable person expect it. What would happen if several of you that are knowledgeaable about thiswrote to the webmaster at ebay and suggested that this particular salewasnot what it reputed to be, but maybe seemed to be a "scam" of sorts? Claude from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sun Mar 7 12:45:24 1999 Subject: Re: Interesting Salesmanship [Fwd: eBay rod] C8B00D4606733FCBB1B5D4F6" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- C8B00D4606733FCBB1B5D4F6 26F79815C1950F622C3C851F" --------------26F79815C1950F622C3C851F Guys,Got this response from "flyangler" -- the seller of note.Some of you who know more than I do might want to contact himdirectly at:INTEGRAA.email.msn.com Harry --------------26F79815C1950F622C3C851F Guys, him directly at:INTEGRAA.email.msn.comHarry --------------26F79815C1950F622C3C851F-- --------------C8B00D4606733FCBB1B5D4F6 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) SMTPSVC;Sun, 7 Mar 1999 08:42:36 -0800 Subject: Re: eBay rod Sorry you have doubts! My craftsman, Jim Grant, is well known in theindustry and his quals are listed. In fact, he presented his rods byinvitation to President George Bush in the White House. This rod is onspecial because of the size. -----Original Message----- Subject: eBay rod Are you serious about this rod? The picture looks like abamboo casting rod on which someone has place a fly rod reel seatand grip. I guess I could be wrong, but it sure doesn't seem likea prize winner to me. For $875, the buyer should be able to get atop of the line rod from a well known maker. I have no idea whothe "1984 contest winner" is.I'm not trying to be too negative. Obviously your salesskills are good. But bamboo rods are given a bad name when theyare not fairly represented.If I'm out of line, please let me know. Harry Boydfbcwin@fsbnet.com --------------C8B00D4606733FCBB1B5D4F6-- from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Mar 7 13:12:32 1999 Subject: Re: Interesting salesmanship of Cane rods I second Claude's suggestion that those who know a whole lot moreaboutbamboo rods make eBay aware. Last year Metcalf made the eBay people aware of a fraudulent, grosslyoverpriced rod being offered for sale. The eBay people pulled it fromauction. They are sensitive to things like this. Darryl from flyfish@mailhost.alaska.net Sun Mar 7 14:02:32 1999 (AKST) Subject: Clicking Ferrule I have a three-piece Leonard and the ferrule on the butt section hasstarted to click when the rod is cast. The click can be heard faintlywhen the rod is disassembeled and the ferrule is wiggled (that is not thecorrect word) gently. Several faint cracks are visible in the varnish onthe ferrule wraps. Question - does the ferrule need to be repaired and, if so, should it bedone immediately or can the rod still be fished without fear of doingmajordamage. I would appreciate any information the list could provide. Thanks. Dave GoodmanAnchorage, AK from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sun Mar 7 14:05:05 1999 (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP Sun, 7 Mar 1999 20:04:32 +0000 Subject: Re: Interesting salesmanship of Cane rods E-Bay has a mechanism for reporting fraud...it sounds like this onequalifies on several counts. George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Interesting salesmanship of Cane rods Okay, cooler head now...This imposter looks to be a 1 tip spinning rod. I'd bet a box of hooks thatlong wrap in front of the handle covers alot of glue and traces of cork. Iwonder if the sections are the same length?This kind of snake oil really burns me- I see it in music retail too. I'vebook marked it to see if some poor soul actually bids on it. I wonder if itwould go against a ebay rule if I emailed and warned the winning biddertoreturn it immediately after having a knowlegable person expect it. Rob from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sun Mar 7 14:07:33 1999 (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP Sun, 7 Mar 1999 20:07:00 +0000 Subject: Re: Interesting Salesmanship [Fwd: eBay rod] boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004B_01BE6893.658EEF60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01BE6893.658EEF60 So, did the White House destroy it as a suspicious looking package? George-----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd Date: Sunday, March 07, 1999 10:48 AMSubject: Re: Interesting Salesmanship [Fwd: eBay rod] Got this response from "flyangler" -- the seller of note. Some = ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01BE6893.658EEF60 So, did the White House destroy it= suspicious looking package? George -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sunday, March 07, 1999 10:48 AMSubject: Re: = Harry ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01BE6893.658EEF60-- from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Mar 7 14:17:37 1999 "irish-george@worldnet.att.net" Subject: Re: Interesting salesmanship of Cane rods George I really do not know who this guy Jim Grant is butthere is misleading information in the ad that really needs to becorrected.This is a 6' 4" two piece rod for a 3-4 and click and paw drag reel thatwill"Will stop the rush of a chinook or the acrobatics of a tarpon!" If it does that then what does it cast like? Chris On Sun, 7 Mar 1999 12:07:18 -0800, irish-george wrote: E-Bay has a mechanism for reporting fraud...it sounds like this onequalifies on several counts. George Bourke-----Original Message-----From: Nodewrrior@aol.com cbogart@shentel.net Cc: rcurry@ttlc.net ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Sunday, March 07, 1999 9:13 AMSubject: Re: Interesting salesmanship of Cane rods Okay, cooler head now...This imposter looks to be a 1 tip spinning rod. I'd bet a box of hooks thatlong wrap in front of the handle covers alot of glue and traces of cork. Iwonder if the sections are the same length?This kind of snake oil really burns me- I see it in music retail too. I'vebook marked it to see if some poor soul actually bids on it. I wonder if itwould go against a ebay rule if I emailed and warned the winning biddertoreturn it immediately after having a knowlegable person expect it. Rob from anglport@con2.com Sun Mar 7 14:53:18 1999 Subject: Re: Clicking Ferrule Dave,Sounds to me like the ferrule glue went south on you. I don't thinkthere's anything wrong with the ferrule FIT ( my software doesn't haveitalics). I'd try to re-mount it before I tried anything else (and I woulddo it SOON as the flopping of the thing on the end of the butt couldsuddenly shorten your rod by 1 1/2 ins and screw up its taper all-to-h*ll).I don't know off-hand if (or when) Leonard pinned theirs. Someone else canconfirm or deny my assessment and fill in that info.Art At 10:58 AM 3/7/99 -0900, Dave Goodman wrote:I have a three-piece Leonard and the ferrule on the butt section hasstarted to click when the rod is cast. The click can be heard faintlywhen the rod is disassembeled and the ferrule is wiggled (that is not thecorrect word) gently. Several faint cracks are visible in the varnish onthe ferrule wraps. Question - does the ferrule need to be repaired and, if so, should it bedone immediately or can the rod still be fished without fear of doingmajordamage. I would appreciate any information the list could provide. Thanks. Dave GoodmanAnchorage, AK from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Mar 7 18:15:44 1999 Subject: Re: Lathe noise Richard,A metal lathe is very quiet running. I don't thinkyou will have any problem. Dave L. from HARMS1@prodigy.net Sun Mar 7 18:16:29 1999 Sun, 7 Mar 1999 19:16:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Clicking Ferrule =_NextPart_000_01BE68CE.C2F76F20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE68CE.C2F76F20 I've repaired quite a few Leonard rods over the years, and all those I'veseen that were built more than, say, 15 years ago had pinned ferrules. Ifyou're going to replace the ferrule, don't pin it. Just mount itcorrectly, and there will be no problem. Pinning a ferrule is totallyunnecessary, and causes more problems than it could ever solve. Cheers, Bill ----------From: Art Port Subject: Re: Clicking FerruleDate: Sunday, March 07, 1999 12:54 PM Dave,Sounds to me like the ferrule glue went south on you. I don't thinkthere's anything wrong with the ferrule FIT ( my software doesn't haveitalics). I'd try to re-mount it before I tried anything else (and Iwoulddo it SOON as the flopping of the thing on the end of the butt couldsuddenly shorten your rod by 1 1/2 ins and screw up its taperall-to-h*ll).I don't know off-hand if (or when) Leonard pinned theirs. Someone elsecanconfirm or deny my assessment and fill in that info.Art At 10:58 AM 3/7/99 -0900, Dave Goodman wrote:I have a three-piece Leonard and the ferrule on the butt section hasstarted to click when the rod is cast. The click can be heard faintlywhen the rod is disassembeled and the ferrule is wiggled (that is notthecorrect word) gently. Several faint cracks are visible in the varnish onthe ferrule wraps. Question - does the ferrule need to be repaired and, if so, should it bedone immediately or can the rod still be fished without fear of doingmajordamage. I would appreciate any information the list could provide. Thanks. Dave GoodmanAnchorage, AK ------=_NextPart_000_01BE68CE.C2F76F20 I've repaired quite a few =Leonard rods over the years, and all those I've seen that were built = unnecessary, and causes more problems than it could ever solve. = = Sounds to me like the ferrule glue went south on you. I don't = immediately or can the rod still be fished without fear of doing = ------=_NextPart_000_01BE68CE.C2F76F20-- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Mar 7 20:59:10 1999 Mon, 8 Mar 1999 10:58:48 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: Clicking Ferrule Dave,check three things. 1) that the ferrule is a good fit the entire length, it may be thatthe leading face of the male is laped too much and is moving when thesections are assembled. 2) The cane itself may be cracked along a glueline within or near themales ferrule. 3) The ferrule bond may be loose and the cane is moving within theferrule. You should investigate before using much more. Tony On Sun, 7 Mar 1999, Dave Goodman wrote: I have a three-piece Leonard and the ferrule on the butt section hasstarted to click when the rod is cast. The click can be heard faintlywhen the rod is disassembeled and the ferrule is wiggled (that is not thecorrect word) gently. Several faint cracks are visible in the varnish onthe ferrule wraps. Question - does the ferrule need to be repaired and, if so, should it bedone immediately or can the rod still be fished without fear of doingmajordamage. I would appreciate any information the list could provide. Thanks. Dave GoodmanAnchorage, AK /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb? A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Mar 7 21:00:27 1999 Mon, 8 Mar 1999 11:00:08 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) "irish-george@worldnet.att.net" Subject: Re: Interesting salesmanship of Cane rods Maybe you use it like a spear? Tony On Sun, 7 Mar 1999, cbogart wrote: George I really do not know who this guy Jim Grant is butthere is misleading information in the ad that really needs to becorrected.This is a 6' 4" two piece rod for a 3-4 and click and paw drag reel thatwill"Will stop the rush of a chinook or the acrobatics of a tarpon!" If it does that then what does it cast like? Chris On Sun, 7 Mar 1999 12:07:18 -0800, irish-george wrote: E-Bay has a mechanism for reporting fraud...it sounds like this onequalifies on several counts. George Bourke-----Original Message-----From: Nodewrrior@aol.com cbogart@shentel.net Cc: rcurry@ttlc.net ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Sunday, March 07, 1999 9:13 AMSubject: Re: Interesting salesmanship of Cane rods Okay, cooler head now...This imposter looks to be a 1 tip spinning rod. I'd bet a box of hooksthatlong wrap in front of the handle covers alot of glue and traces of cork.Iwonder if the sections are the same length?This kind of snake oil really burns me- I see it in music retail too. I'vebook marked it to see if some poor soul actually bids on it. I wonder ifitwould go against a ebay rule if I emailed and warned the winningbidder toreturn it immediately after having a knowlegable person expect it. Rob /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb? A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from Craig.Naldrett@ibm.net Sun Mar 7 22:43:40 1999 (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA25392 for; Mon, 8 Mar 199904:43:34 GMT Subject: Cutting Planing Form Tapers 1. Has anyone used a "thread cutting lathe tool" to hand cut thegrooves in planning forms (as per Howell, Best Of The Planing Form, Pg29 or Issue # 18/92.2. I have used the file approach as per Penrose for a preliminary set offorms which worked O.K. but I would like to speed up the process ifpossible.3. Also his drawing appears to show a tool which would cut only one sideof the groove.Any comments would be appreciated. CheersCraig from Turbotrk@aol.com Mon Mar 8 00:26:30 1999 Subject: Re: Cutting Planing Form Tapers Craig, Rick Crenshaw from the list has used the lathe bit, and so have I onmetal..He lent me his and told me how it would make it faster. Way to go Rick, Itworks. Use a carbide tiped one and make a jig of hard maple to sandwichitin. Screw the two peices together with some kind of bolts and just let alittle bit be exposed for the first few passes. Set the forms up alapremroseand go for it with the lathe bit and then the file. Both in unison workgreat. Keep switching back and forth until you get within .005 of yourdestination. Here is my trick which I will finally devulge to the list. {Ionly wish a patent would apply) It is the greatest way of fine tuning yourforms to within the best of your measuring devices tolerances. Set yourforms.025 apart at each station using a feeler guage at the shoulder bolt. Makesure you feel the same tension at each point. Use your dial indicator gaugetomeasure the depth at one inch incriments. You want to increase your depthby.001 every 1" so at every bolt you should see an increase of .005. Subtract.0223 to the measurement that you get and you will get the acctual depthas ifthe forms were closed and flush. The reason you set them .025 apart is togive your file room to work and let any filings fall away. In this way youset them once and know where you are as you file.You can work very slowly and get within .0005 at every station. How do Iknowthis you ask? I made two sets and hated having to close the forms eachandeverytime I wanted to know where I was in the whole deal. My firstattempt atdoing the tip side ended up the butt side. If you make a mistake on thebuttside and go too deep you have to file the top of the forms off to reduce thedepth and that is not a good way to go. You need the tops to be perfectlyflat. You can also use this method to fine tune your forms. Wayne suggests avixonfile on the top side. I agree. It works great. And with the forms apart allthe shavings fall away. If the forms are too shallow, use your 60 degreefileand fine tune away. The gap lets the flat part of the apex fall away fromthematerial and you get a true 60. I welcome any feedback from the list and in no way proclaim myself anexpertin this field. I just got stuck making forms and spent 7 months thinkingabout it. Now I am making rods and loving it. Stuart Millera rod maker from chris@artistree.com Mon Mar 8 12:45:43 1999 Subject: Re: Interesting Salesmanship [Fwd: eBay rod] mac-creator="4D4F5353" All,Thought I recognized the name. So I dug around in my articles databaseand pulled out this clipping. Sorry the file transfer lost theparagraphs but I thought it might clear (or muddy) the waters a bit.--Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com Fishing rod king lands a Bush bass Chicago Tribune, April 16, 1991 By:Melita Marie Garza When Susan Grandt answered the phone at her Arlington Heights homelast month and a voice said: "This is the White House calling," Grandtdid just what most other people would have done. She hung up. But aWhite House official called back within seconds, and after assuringSusan and Jim Grandt that the call was for real, he informed them thatPresident Bush wanted to meet with them in the Oval Office. The Grandtsand Bush came together concerning the chief executive's passion forfishing, an industry that Jim Grandt, 32, has been associated with mostof his life, first as a young sport fisherman and later as a masterbuilder of exotic custom fishing rods. On March 13, he presented as agift to Bush two of his handmade rods. One was a 6-foot, 5- inch baitcastrod, with a handle made from vermillion, ebony, walnut and German beech,a green-hued wood. The other was an 8-foot, 6-inch fly rod used forbonefish, trout and bass fishing, Grandt said. The president proved tobe a good sport about the whole thing. When he asked if the handle wasmade of West German beech, Grandt pointedly replied, "No, it's Germanbeech." Bush laughed at Grandt's geopolitical response. Grandt's fishingrods cost between $70 and $2,500. Grandt, an Arlington Heights native,is the only person to win the 75-year-old National Rod Buildingcompetition two years in a row, a feat that disqualifies him fromentering the competition again, he said. He makes his rods by hand,using split bamboo from the Gulf of Tonkin for his rare bamboo rods andseveral species of naturally colored woods from around the world tofashion handles for other models. He uses wood instead of the morecommon cork or foam because wood is a denser material, he said. Perhapsthe most striking feature of his rods are the intricate patterns woveninto the graphite poles with multicolored, platinum, silver and goldthreads from Spain and Germany. But his fine patented finishes also aresought after, leading Broyhill Furniture, he said, to try to buy it fromhim. Grandt zealously guards his custom-made processes, and when hisoverseas suppliers assumed that he was in the drapery business, hedidn't bother to correct the impression. He also won't reveal thelocation of his workshop, saying he would be so inundated with peopleasking to be shown rods that he wouldn't have time to work. Most rodsrequire at least 40 hours, although about 80 hours went into the makingof the president's. "My signature goes on every rod," Grandt said. "Wedon't have any such thing as seconds." He sells rods to a diverse group,including charter fishing operations, tarpon fishermen, tuna fishermenand fishermen in Alaska, Africa and Costa Rica. He also custom buildsrods for the disabled, fashioning special handles for people missing anarm or fingers. "The sport is rapidly becoming a yuppie sport too," saidhis wife, 32, a real estate agent who plans to take over marketing forher husband's firm. "And in the last five or six years, more and morewomen also have begun fishing," she said, adding that Charlie's Anglers,a women's fishing club in Hoffman Estates, has ordered fishing rods.Grandt developed his love of woodworking from his father, Wilbert, 70,who made cabinets for a hobby. Grandt attended Arlington High School,where he played on the basketball team and spent a lot of time inwoodworking shop. After Grandt had several rods break duringtournamentsas a teenager, he decided to try making his own. Subject: Re: eBay rodDate: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 11:36:30 -0500From: "INTEGRAA" Sorry you have doubts! My craftsman, Jim Grant, is well known in theindustry and his quals are listed. In fact, he presented his rods byinvitation to President George Bush in the White House. This rod isonspecial because of the size. from anglport@con2.com Mon Mar 8 13:33:27 1999 Subject: Re: Interesting Salesmanship [Fwd: eBay rod] I wonder if the Bush rod was graphite or cane; it didn't seem to bespecific. Might be a comment on his cane-building abilities right there.Also doesn't mention if he won the competition for cane or plastic. If noneof us ever heard of the game, maybe no cane is ever entered. Sounds like hedoes a lot of deco-wrapping (hence the check-wrap design on the presentevidence).Just some thoughts,Art At 10:49 AM 3/8/99 +0000, Chris Wohlford wrote:All,Thought I recognized the name. So I dug around in my articles databaseand pulled out this clipping. Sorry the file transfer lost theparagraphs but I thought it might clear (or muddy) the waters a bit.--Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com Fishing rod king lands a Bush bass Chicago Tribune, April 16, 1991 By:Melita Marie Garza When Susan Grandt answered the phone at her Arlington Heights homelast month and a voice said: "This is the White House calling," Grandtdid just what most other people would have done. She hung up. But aWhite House official called back within seconds, and after assuringSusan and Jim Grandt that the call was for real, he informed them thatPresident Bush wanted to meet with them in the Oval Office. The Grandtsand Bush came together concerning the chief executive's passion forfishing, an industry that Jim Grandt, 32, has been associated with mostof his life, first as a young sport fisherman and later as a masterbuilder of exotic custom fishing rods. On March 13, he presented as agift to Bush two of his handmade rods. One was a 6-foot, 5- inch baitcastrod, with a handle made from vermillion, ebony, walnut and Germanbeech,a green-hued wood. The other was an 8-foot, 6-inch fly rod used forbonefish, trout and bass fishing, Grandt said. The president proved tobe a good sport about the whole thing. When he asked if the handle wasmade of West German beech, Grandt pointedly replied, "No, it's Germanbeech." Bush laughed at Grandt's geopolitical response. Grandt's fishingrods cost between $70 and $2,500. Grandt, an Arlington Heights native,is the only person to win the 75-year-old National Rod Buildingcompetition two years in a row, a feat that disqualifies him fromentering the competition again, he said. He makes his rods by hand,using split bamboo from the Gulf of Tonkin for his rare bamboo rods andseveral species of naturally colored woods from around the world tofashion handles for other models. He uses wood instead of the morecommon cork or foam because wood is a denser material, he said. Perhapsthe most striking feature of his rods are the intricate patterns woveninto the graphite poles with multicolored, platinum, silver and goldthreads from Spain and Germany. But his fine patented finishes also aresought after, leading Broyhill Furniture, he said, to try to buy it fromhim. Grandt zealously guards his custom-made processes, and when hisoverseas suppliers assumed that he was in the drapery business, hedidn't bother to correct the impression. He also won't reveal thelocation of his workshop, saying he would be so inundated with peopleasking to be shown rods that he wouldn't have time to work. Most rodsrequire at least 40 hours, although about 80 hours went into the makingof the president's. "My signature goes on every rod," Grandt said. "Wedon't have any such thing as seconds." He sells rods to a diverse group,including charter fishing operations, tarpon fishermen, tuna fishermenand fishermen in Alaska, Africa and Costa Rica. He also custom buildsrods for the disabled, fashioning special handles for people missing anarm or fingers. "The sport is rapidly becoming a yuppie sport too," saidhis wife, 32, a real estate agent who plans to take over marketing forher husband's firm. "And in the last five or six years, more and morewomen also have begun fishing," she said, adding that Charlie's Anglers,a women's fishing club in Hoffman Estates, has ordered fishing rods.Grandt developed his love of woodworking from his father, Wilbert, 70,who made cabinets for a hobby. Grandt attended Arlington High School,where he played on the basketball team and spent a lot of time inwoodworking shop. After Grandt had several rods break duringtournamentsas a teenager, he decided to try making his own. Subject: Re: eBay rodDate: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 11:36:30 -0500From: "INTEGRAA" Sorry you have doubts! My craftsman, Jim Grant, is well known in theindustry and his quals are listed. In fact, he presented his rods byinvitation to President George Bush in the White House. This rod isonspecial because of the size. from harry37@epix.net Mon Mar 8 14:12:59 1999 ESMTP id PAA15436 SMTP id PAA00672; Subject: Re: Interesting Salesmanship [Fwd: eBay rod] Chris Wohlford wrote: All,Thought I recognized the name. So I dug around in my articles databaseand pulled out this clipping. Sorry the file transfer lost theparagraphs but I thought it might clear (or muddy) the waters a bit.--Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com Fishing rod king lands a Bush bass Chicago Tribune, April 16, 1991 By:Melita Marie Garza When Susan Grandt answered the phone at her Arlington Heights homelast month and a voice said: "This is the White House calling," Grandtdid just what most other people would have done. She hung up. But aWhite House official called back within seconds, and after assuringSusan and Jim Grandt that the call was for real, he informed them thatPresident Bush wanted to meet with them in the Oval Office. TheGrandtsand Bush came together concerning the chief executive's passion forfishing, an industry that Jim Grandt, 32, has been associated with mostof his life, first as a young sport fisherman and later as a masterbuilder of exotic custom fishing rods. On March 13, he presented as agift to Bush two of his handmade rods. One was a 6-foot, 5- inch baitcastrod, with a handle made from vermillion, ebony, walnut and Germanbeech,a green-hued wood. The other was an 8-foot, 6-inch fly rod used forbonefish, trout and bass fishing, Grandt said. The president proved tobe a good sport about the whole thing. When he asked if the handle wasmade of West German beech, Grandt pointedly replied, "No, it's Germanbeech." Bush laughed at Grandt's geopolitical response. Grandt's fishingrods cost between $70 and $2,500. Grandt, an Arlington Heights native,is the only person to win the 75-year-old National Rod Buildingcompetition two years in a row, a feat that disqualifies him fromentering the competition again, he said. He makes his rods by hand,using split bamboo from the Gulf of Tonkin for his rare bamboo rods andseveral species of naturally colored woods from around the world tofashion handles for other models. He uses wood instead of the morecommon cork or foam because wood is a denser material, he said.Perhapsthe most striking feature of his rods are the intricate patterns woveninto the graphite poles with multicolored, platinum, silver and goldthreads from Spain and Germany. But his fine patented finishes also aresought after, leading Broyhill Furniture, he said, to try to buy it fromhim. Grandt zealously guards his custom-made processes, and when hisoverseas suppliers assumed that he was in the drapery business, hedidn't bother to correct the impression. He also won't reveal thelocation of his workshop, saying he would be so inundated with peopleasking to be shown rods that he wouldn't have time to work. Most rodsrequire at least 40 hours, although about 80 hours went into the makingof the president's. "My signature goes on every rod," Grandt said. "Wedon't have any such thing as seconds." He sells rods to a diverse group,including charter fishing operations, tarpon fishermen, tuna fishermen>and fishermen in Alaska, Africa and Costa Rica. He also custom buildsrods for the disabled, fashioning special handles for people missing anarm or fingers. "The sport is rapidly becoming a yuppie sport too," saidhis wife, 32, a real estate agent who plans to take over marketing forher husband's firm. "And in the last five or six years, more and morewomen also have begun fishing," she said, adding that Charlie's Anglers,a women's fishing club in Hoffman Estates, has ordered fishing rods.Grandt developed his love of woodworking from his father, Wilbert, 70,who made cabinets for a hobby. Grandt attended Arlington High School,where he played on the basketball team and spent a lot of time inwoodworking shop. After Grandt had several rods break duringtournamentsas a teenager, he decided to try making his own. Subject: Re: eBay rodDate: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 11:36:30 -0500From: "INTEGRAA" Sorry you have doubts! My craftsman, Jim Grant, is well known in theindustry and his quals are listed. In fact, he presented his rods byinvitation to President George Bush in the White House. This rod isonspecial because of the size. Didn't PT Barnum say there was a sucker born every minute? Greg from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Mar 8 15:19:27 1999 Subject: Robert Kope's Great Idea Wow! The guys on this list continue to amaze me!A little while back I was trying to come up with ideason making a convertible short/long rod, but the problemI was having was where to place the stripper guide. I just got a stripper guide in the mail that can be unstrungwithout having to unstring the whole line. Robert Kope madeit and sent it to me. This is a great idea! Now I got to get backto designing that taper. Darryl from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Mar 8 15:35:29 1999 (5.5.2407.0) Subject: bamboo Went to the home show here in Seattle this weekend and came across abooth of a companyselling a laminated hardwood floor and the top 1/8" layer was bamboo andthe guy said that itwas tonkin cane. Andy Royer was part of a company here in Seattle thatwas getting bamboo from China and thats how he got into the bamboo for flyrod business.Looked like the perfectfloor for a rod making room. from sjstill@iquest.net Mon Mar 8 16:18:38 1999 0000 (209.43.56.3) Subject: The great cork order?? Hi All, Hey, has anyone who went into the cork order with Davy Riggs receivedtheircork? I haven't heard diddly about it, but then again, I haven't been onthe list for a while. If anyone knows what is happening, please let meknow! Regards, Steve Steve and Julie StillabowerIndianapolis, IN ICQ 19299644 from mevans@acxiom.com Mon Mar 8 16:48:44 1999 (5.5.2448.0) Subject: RE: Interesting Salesmanship [Fwd: eBay rod] A few years ago I met a fisherman in Missouri touting a beautiful graphiterod "just like theone this builder make for Pres. Bush". It included beautiful inlays ofthread, feathers,and even an inlayed #26 hook. Raucous as it may sound, it was a beautifulpiece of work. Idon't recall the name of the builder but who knows - maybe the same guy. ----------From: Art Port [SMTP:anglport@con2.com]Sent: Monday, March 08, 1999 1:34 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Interesting Salesmanship [Fwd: eBay rod] I wonder if the Bush rod was graphite or cane; it didn't seem to bespecific. Might be a comment on his cane-building abilities rightthere.Also doesn't mention if he won the competition for cane or plastic. Ifnoneof us ever heard of the game, maybe no cane is ever entered. Soundslike hedoes a lot of deco- wrapping (hence the check-wrap design on thepresentevidence).Just some thoughts,Art At 10:49 AM 3/8/99 +0000, Chris Wohlford wrote:All,Thought I recognized the name. So I dug around in my articlesdatabaseand pulled out this clipping. Sorry the file transfer lost theparagraphs but I thought it might clear (or muddy) the waters a bit.--Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com Fishing rod king lands a Bush bass Chicago Tribune, April 16, 1991By:Melita Marie Garza When Susan Grandt answered the phone at her Arlington Heightshomelast month and a voice said: "This is the White House calling," Grandtdid just what most other people would have done. She hung up. But aWhite House official called back within seconds, and after assuringSusan and Jim Grandt that the call was for real, he informed themthatPresident Bush wanted to meet with them in the Oval Office. TheGrandtsand Bush came together concerning the chief executive's passion forfishing, an industry that Jim Grandt, 32, has been associated withmostof his life, first as a young sport fisherman and later as a masterbuilder of exotic custom fishing rods. On March 13, he presented as agift to Bush two of his handmade rods. One was a 6-foot, 5- inchbaitcastrod, with a handle made from vermillion, ebony, walnut and Germanbeech,a green-hued wood. The other was an 8-foot, 6-inch fly rod used forbonefish, trout and bass fishing, Grandt said. The president provedtobe a good sport about the whole thing. When he asked if the handlewasmade of West German beech, Grandt pointedly replied, "No, it'sGermanbeech." Bush laughed at Grandt's geopolitical response. Grandt'sfishingrods cost between $70 and $2,500. Grandt, an Arlington Heightsnative,is the only person to win the 75-year-old National Rod Buildingcompetition two years in a row, a feat that disqualifies him fromentering the competition again, he said. He makes his rods by hand,using split bamboo from the Gulf of Tonkin for his rare bamboo rods andseveral species of naturally colored woods from around the world tofashion handles for other models. He uses wood instead of the morecommon cork or foam because wood is a denser material, he said.Perhapsthe most striking feature of his rods are the intricate patternswoveninto the graphite poles with multicolored, platinum, silver and goldthreads from Spain and Germany. But his fine patented finishes alsoaresought after, leading Broyhill Furniture, he said, to try to buy itfromhim. Grandt zealously guards his custom-made processes, and whenhisoverseas suppliers assumed that he was in the drapery business, hedidn't bother to correct the impression. He also won't reveal thelocation of his workshop, saying he would be so inundated withpeopleasking to be shown rods that he wouldn't have time to work. Mostrodsrequire at least 40 hours, although about 80 hours went into themakingof the president's. "My signature goes on every rod," Grandt said. "Wedon't have any such thing as seconds." He sells rods to a diversegroup,including charter fishing operations, tarpon fishermen, tunafishermenand fishermen in Alaska, Africa and Costa Rica. He also custombuildsrods for the disabled, fashioning special handles for people missinganarm or fingers. "The sport is rapidly becoming a yuppie sport too,"saidhis wife, 32, a real estate agent who plans to take over marketingforher husband's firm. "And in the last five or six years, more and morewomen also have begun fishing," she said, adding that Charlie'sAnglers,a women's fishing club in Hoffman Estates, has ordered fishing rods.Grandt developed his love of woodworking from his father, Wilbert,70,who made cabinets for a hobby. Grandt attended Arlington HighSchool,where he played on the basketball team and spent a lot of time inwoodworking shop. After Grandt had several rods break duringtournamentsas a teenager, he decided to try making his own. Subject: Re: eBay rodDate: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 11:36:30 -0500From: "INTEGRAA" Sorry you have doubts! My craftsman, Jim Grant, is well known intheindustry and his quals are listed. In fact, he presented his rods byinvitation to President George Bush in the White House. This rod isonspecial because of the size. from cattanac@wmis.net Mon Mar 8 18:26:57 1999 mail4.wmis.net (8.8.8/SCO5) Subject: Re: Interesting Salesmanship [Fwd: eBay rod] If I recall correctly - at the Harrisburg get together back in '93 - Ican remember seeing the gentleman in question at a booth with his rods -they were $1400 back then. As for an excellent rod builder in MO - Tom Hargrove is perhaps theperson - he runs a shop in STL and also attends the festivities atGrayrock - this past year a rod of his building - which included several#32hooks - went for a rather good amount - Tom also built a set of home andaway colors for Steve Southard with the same motif from moran@lincoln.midcoast.com Mon Mar 8 21:18:47 1999 (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA06929 for ;Mon, 8 Mar 199922:18:34 -0500 Subject: milling machine boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE69B1.5954A540" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE69B1.5954A540 Anyone out there using or have some experience with Bob Milward's =milling machine which uses a router? Sean Moran ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE69B1.5954A540 Anyone out there using or havesome = Moran ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE69B1.5954A540-- from Craig.Naldrett@ibm.net Tue Mar 9 00:35:31 1999 (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA108004 for; Tue, 9 Mar 199906:35:23 GMT Subject: Re: Cutting Planing Form Tapers boundary="------------76FAA71CFC4FED7DDEEA00FD" --------------76FAA71CFC4FED7DDEEA00FD 1. Thanks to Stuart Miller & Leroy Teeple for input on using 60 degreethread cutting lathe bit/tool to cut grooves in planing forms. Workedgreat with minor mods as noted below.2. Went to a local supplier of machine tooling & bought the item, 3/8"shaft 60 degree carbide tipped thread cutter tool, part number is E-6370. Guys at the store said any good supplier can provide the item giventhese numbers.3. Mounted unit (vertically) in a maple holder with a nice Tung Oilfinish (may as well do it with style) as per Stuart's suggestion but Ifound the same chatter/rough cutting mentioned by Leroy. I took thecutter out & found by pulling it at an angle of anywhere from 10 to 35degrees toward me (i.e. along axis of forms) it cut like a dream. So Imodified my holder to have the cutter angled 30 degrees (everythingseems to be 30 or 60 degress lately) towards the direction of pull. Forthose who haven't seen them, the 60 degree carbide cutter is brazed ontoa 3/8" bronze (I assume) shank and is only designed to cut in onedirection. After that it cut unbelievably well, curling off steel, notthe little pile of iron "finds" I got with the file.4. Note that this was a set of preliminary cold rolled steel forms thatI had already filed to about 0.075 deep so not sure how well the toolwill start a set of forms from scratch but see no reason why itshouldn't do as well as it did in finishing them. Also my finish wassilky smooth. Thanks GuysCraig --------------76FAA71CFC4FED7DDEEA00FD 1. Thanks to Stuart Miller & Leroy Teeple for input on using 60 degreethread cutting lathe bit/tool to cut grooves in planing forms. Worked greatwith minor mods as noted below.2. Went to a local supplier of machine tooling & bought the item,3/8" shaft 60 degree carbide tipped thread cutter tool, part number is item given these numbers. Oil finish (may as well do it with style) as per Stuart's suggestion butI found the same chatter/rough cutting mentioned by Leroy. I took thecutterout & found by pulling it at an angle of anywhere from 10 to 35degreestoward me (i.e. along axis of forms) it cut like a dream. So I modifiedmy holder to have the cutter angled 30 degrees (everything seems to be30 or 60 degress lately) towards the direction of pull. For those whohaven'tseen them, the 60 degree carbide cutter is brazed onto a 3/8" bronze (Iassume) shank and is only designed to cut in one direction. After thatit cut unbelievably well, curling off steel, not the little pile of iron"finds" I got with the file.4. Note that this was a set of preliminary cold rolled steelforms that I had already filed to about 0.075 deep so not sure how wellthe tool will start a set of forms from scratch but see no reason why itshouldn't do as well as it did in finishing them. Also my finish was silkysmooth.Thanks GuysCraig --------------76FAA71CFC4FED7DDEEA00FD-- from mstevens@ptdprolog.net Tue Mar 9 06:26:53 1999 Subject: Re: Cutting Planing Form Tapers boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3130021161_2041919_MIME_Part" THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3130021161_2041919_MIME_Part Craig, I am sure the lathe tool cut better on the 30 degree angle but I don'tbelieve you are cutting a 60 degree angle anymore. I think you are nowcutting a 67.4 degree angle. I did the figures on my CAD program. As youchange the cutting angle of the tool from vertical toward horizontal theangle of the cut will increase from 60 degrees to a final 180 degrees. I hope others will check out my math. Mike Michael StevensRR 1 Box 307C Effort PA 18330 610 681 5670 http://www.mikestevens.com mstevens@ptdprolog.net Collector of Heddon Bamboo rodsJ.A. Coxe baitcasting reelsHeddon River Runt Spooks Maker of Fine Sights for Antique Single Shot TargetRifles --MS_Mac_OE_3130021161_2041919_MIME_Part Re: Cutting Planing Form Tapers Craig, I am sure the lathe tool cut better on the 30 degree angle but I don't beli=eve you are cutting a 60 degree angle anymore. I think you are now cuttinga=67.4 degree angle. I did the figures on my CAD program. As you change thec=utting angle of the tool from vertical toward horizontal the angle of thecu=t will increase from 60 degrees to a final 180 degrees. I hope others will check out my math. Mike Michael StevensRR 1 Box 307C 610 681 5670 http://www.mikestevens.com mstevens@ptdprolog.net Collector of Heddon Bamboo rodsJ.A. Coxe baitcasting reelsHeddon River Runt Spooks Maker of Fine Sights for Antique Single Shot TargetRifles --MS_Mac_OE_3130021161_2041919_MIME_Part-- from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Tue Mar 9 08:48:45 1999 Tue, 9 Mar 1999 08:46:07 -0600 Subject: Re: The great cork order?? Steve,Haven't heard anything, and I'm worried about Davy. He seems like astand upguy to me. I'm afraid something may have happened to him, like an illnessor anaccident.Are there any of us on the list who know him personally, or live nearhim? Iknow he's in the Pacific Northwest, but that's about all I remember. Hecould bein bad shape, and I would like to at least offer my best wishes.How about some of you guys in Washington/Oregon??If any of you know how to contact Davy Riggs, please let me know sothat Ican check on him and offer my services. (I'm the token list Minister)Thanks,Harry Steve Stillabower wrote: Hi All, Hey, has anyone who went into the cork order with Davy Riggs receivedtheircork? I haven't heard diddly about it, but then again, I haven't been onthe list for a while. If anyone knows what is happening, please let meknow! Regards, Steve Steve and Julie StillabowerIndianapolis, IN ICQ 19299644 from mevans@acxiom.com Tue Mar 9 09:01:12 1999 (5.5.2448.0) Subject: RE: Interesting Salesmanship [Fwd: eBay rod] Wayne,I agree - Tom is an excellent builder and a fine person. I knew of Tom atthe time and, inthis case, he was not the builder mentioned. The name Grandt soundsfamiliar, but I can't besure. ----------From: Wayne Cattanach [SMTP:cattanac@wmis.net]Sent: Monday, March 08, 1999 6:29 PM Subject: Re: Interesting Salesmanship [Fwd: eBay rod] If I recall correctly - at the Harrisburg get together back in '93 - Ican remember seeing the gentleman in question at a booth with hisrods -they were $1400 back then. As for an excellent rod builder in MO - Tom Hargrove is perhaps theperson - he runs a shop in STL and also attends the festivities atGrayrock - this past year a rod of his building - which includedseveral #32hooks - went for a rather good amount - Tom also built a set of homeandaway colors for Steve Southard with the same motif from DBURRILL@TELEHUB.com Tue Mar 9 09:50:41 1999 Subject: RE: The great cork order?? I actually called his home a week or two ago and got an answeringmachine.He did send me an e-mail response stating that he was ok, but was awayfromhome and away from his computer, and he didn't know when he'd be back. Heis still very aware of the cork order, but I get the impression that there'snothing he can do about it right now. That's all I know. -----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd [SMTP:fbcwin@fsbnet.com]Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 1999 6:45 AM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: The great cork order?? Steve,Haven't heard anything, and I'm worried about Davy. He seemslike a stand upguy to me. I'm afraid something may have happened to him, like anillness or anaccident.Are there any of us on the list who know him personally, or livenear him? Iknow he's in the Pacific Northwest, but that's about all I remember.He could bein bad shape, and I would like to at least offer my best wishes.How about some of you guys in Washington/Oregon??If any of you know how to contact Davy Riggs, please let me knowso that Ican check on him and offer my services. (I'm the token listMinister)Thanks,Harry Steve Stillabower wrote: Hi All, Hey, has anyone who went into the cork order with Davy Riggsreceived theircork? I haven't heard diddly about it, but then again, I haven'tbeen onthe list for a while. If anyone knows what is happening, pleaselet me know! Regards, Steve Steve and Julie StillabowerIndianapolis, IN ICQ 19299644 from thramer@presys.com Tue Mar 9 11:15:18 1999 Subject: Re: Cutting Planing Form Tapers Michael W. Stevens wrote: Craig, I am sure the lathe tool cut better on the 30 degree anglebut I don't believe you are cutting a 60 degree angleanymore. I think you are now cutting a 67.4 degree angle. Idid the figures on my CAD program. As you change the cuttingangle of the tool from vertical toward horizontal the angleof the cut will increase from 60 degrees to a final 180degrees. I hope others will check out my math. Mike Michael StevensRR 1 Box 307CEffort PA 18330 610 681 5670 http://www.mikestevens.com mstevens@ptdprolog.net Collector of Heddon Bamboo rodsJ.A. Coxe baitcasting reelsHeddon River Runt Spooks Maker of Fine Sights for Antique Single Shot TargetRiflesI can verify Mikes numbers after setting up a beveler.A.J. from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Tue Mar 9 12:53:26 1999 Tue, 9 Mar 1999 12:50:48 -0600 Subject: Re: Cutting Planing Form Tapers I think we might be misunderstanding the angles referred to here.Seems like 60* cutter held less than perpendicular would still cut 60*,just not as deep. But I'm no mathematician. Maybe someone canenlighten me. Where are all our engineers? Cutter 1 / Cutter 2 |/ |_______/____________|___________| o Forms o o o ||______________________________ | How do you like my art? and thanks,Harry Boyd A.J.Thramer wrote: Michael W. Stevens wrote: Craig, I am sure the lathe tool cut better on the 30 degree anglebut I don't believe you are cutting a 60 degree angleanymore. I think you are now cutting a 67.4 degree angle. Idid the figures on my CAD program. As you change the cuttingangle of the tool from vertical toward horizontal the angleof the cut will increase from 60 degrees to a final 180degrees. I hope others will check out my math. Mike Michael StevensRR 1 Box 307CEffort PA 18330 610 681 5670 http://www.mikestevens.com mstevens@ptdprolog.net Collector of Heddon Bamboo rodsJ.A. Coxe baitcasting reelsHeddon River Runt Spooks Maker of Fine Sights for Antique Single Shot TargetRiflesI can verify Mikes numbers after setting up a beveler.A.J. from Ed.Estlow@co.hennepin.mn.us Tue Mar 9 13:05:57 1999 1999 19:03:56 UT 16-1998)) id8625672F.0068A326 ; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 13:02:55 -0600 Subject: Re: Cutting Planing Form Tapers Harry and all, Try this to help visualize what happens. Take a piece of paper and cut a60- 60-60 triangle out of it. Hold it up in front of you with a point downand aflat across the top. Slowly rotate the downward facing tip away from you,usingthe top edge as the axix of rotation. Close one eye to help take away thethirddimension. You'll see that as you rotate the triangle, which simulates thecutting tool, the PROJECTED angle between the two sides goes to 180 deg.It isthis projected angle which you are cutting into the forms.Tipped at 30 degtothe vertical, the tool cuts closer to a 70 deg. included angle (Sorry, I don'thave my calculator with me so I don't know the angle exactly. It waslistedearlier in the thread.) Hope this helps. Best regards,-Ed Estlow Harry Boyd on 03/09/99 12:50:05 PM Please respond to fbcwin@fsbnet.com cc: mstevens@ptdprolog.net, RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Cutting Planing Form Tapers I think we might be misunderstanding the angles referred to here.Seems like 60* cutter held less than perpendicular would still cut 60*,just not as deep. But I'm no mathematician. Maybe someone canenlighten me. Where are all our engineers? Cutter 1 / Cutter 2 |/ |_______/____________|___________| o Forms o o o ||______________________________ | How do you like my art? and thanks,Harry Boyd A.J.Thramer wrote: Michael W. Stevens wrote: Craig, I am sure the lathe tool cut better on the 30 degree anglebut I don't believe you are cutting a 60 degree angleanymore. I think you are now cutting a 67.4 degree angle. Idid the figures on my CAD program. As you change the cuttingangle of the tool from vertical toward horizontal the angleof the cut will increase from 60 degrees to a final 180degrees. I hope others will check out my math. Mike Michael StevensRR 1 Box 307CEffort PA 18330 610 681 5670 http://www.mikestevens.com mstevens@ptdprolog.net Collector of Heddon Bamboo rodsJ.A. Coxe baitcasting reelsHeddon River Runt Spooks Maker of Fine Sights for Antique Single Shot TargetRiflesI can verify Mikes numbers after setting up a beveler.A.J. from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Tue Mar 9 14:14:09 1999 Tue, 9 Mar 1999 14:11:29 -0600 Subject: Re: Cutting Planing Form Tapers Okay, now I see it. I'm just a little (sometimes a lot) slow. Thanks Ed,Jerry,Michael, A.J., and others who responded,Harry Ed.Estlow@co.hennepin.mn.us wrote: Harry and all, Try this to help visualize what happens. ..... >snipped from Nodewrrior@aol.com Tue Mar 9 18:42:53 1999 Subject: Re: Interesting Salesmanship final GENTLEMEN,I"M NOT REFERRING TO THE FINE WORK OF MR. HARGROVE -I've seen it andit isindeed .Here's the poop.It's classic snake oil.I checked around here in the Chicago (Arlington Hts is one of our lovelysuburbs) and found out a few things.This "maker" claimed at one time to be making the blanks for the OrvisPowerMatrix rods. Need I say more?... I won't-but believe me, there is.This kind of stuff only hurts us all-and ticks me off.Also, has anybody noticed that the auction was prematurely terminatedwith nobids? Hoffhines from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Mar 9 19:03:47 1999 Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:02:38 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: The great cork order?? I've been thinking the same thing. I've emailed Davy without reply andalthought I haven't met him his sudden disapearance has bothered me a bit.I know I've sent Davy some snail mail in the past but I can't find hisaddress, hopefuly it wasn't just on my last hard drive or it's goneforever. If anybody received from him the drawings on how to make a flyreel you may still have the return address. If so could you please let meknow what it is I'd like to write and see if everything's ok. Tony On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Harry Boyd wrote: Steve,Haven't heard anything, and I'm worried about Davy. He seems like astand upguy to me. I'm afraid something may have happened to him, like anillness or anaccident.Are there any of us on the list who know him personally, or live nearhim? Iknow he's in the Pacific Northwest, but that's about all I remember. Hecould bein bad shape, and I would like to at least offer my best wishes.How about some of you guys in Washington/Oregon??If any of you know how to contact Davy Riggs, please let me know sothat Ican check on him and offer my services. (I'm the token list Minister)Thanks,Harry Steve Stillabower wrote: Hi All, Hey, has anyone who went into the cork order with Davy Riggs receivedtheircork? I haven't heard diddly about it, but then again, I haven't been onthe list for a while. If anyone knows what is happening, please let meknow! Regards, Steve Steve and Julie StillabowerIndianapolis, IN ICQ 19299644 /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb? A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from Craig.Naldrett@ibm.net Tue Mar 9 19:34:49 1999 (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA106948 for; Wed, 10 Mar 199901:34:44 GMT Subject: Re: Cutting Etc. STOP I attempted to pass on information to those who provided me withhelp, as has been pointed out by many this will not work, sodisregard/ignore my note about using/tilting a lath cutting tool.Tap A still fits into slot B so I must be using Canadian metricangles & I' ll happily build funny looking rods. CheersCraig from chris@artistree.com Wed Mar 10 03:16:37 1999 Subject: The Ultimate Bamboo Fly Rod Library mac-creator="4D4F5353" Dear List,Just a note that I completed an update of "The Ultimate Bamboo Fly RodLibrary" with the Articles & Periodicals section receiving the bulk ofthe additions. As always, I would appreciate any corrections, revisionsor additions you might have. Hope you find it useful. The Ultimate Bamboo Fly Rod Library web site:http://www.artistree.com/SplitCaneLibrary/ --Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from dickay@alltel.net Wed Mar 10 06:36:10 1999 GAA21249; Subject: Re: The great cork order?? Tony, Thanks for reminding me. I received those plans from Davy and had stuckthe envelope in my files. His address is Davy Riggs11404 89th Ave. Ct. E.Payallup WA. 98373 I don't have a phone number. Hope this helps Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net ----------From: Tony Young Cc: sjstill@iquest.net; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: The great cork order??Date: Tuesday, March 09, 1999 7:02 PM I've been thinking the same thing. I've emailed Davy without reply andalthought I haven't met him his sudden disapearance has bothered me abit.I know I've sent Davy some snail mail in the past but I can't find hisaddress, hopefuly it wasn't just on my last hard drive or it's goneforever. If anybody received from him the drawings on how to make a flyreel you may still have the return address. If so could you please let meknow what it is I'd like to write and see if everything's ok. Tony On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Harry Boyd wrote: Steve,Haven't heard anything, and I'm worried about Davy. He seems likea stand upguy to me. I'm afraid something may have happened to him, like anillness or anaccident.Are there any of us on the list who know him personally, or livenear him? Iknow he's in the Pacific Northwest, but that's about all I remember. He could bein bad shape, and I would like to at least offer my best wishes.How about some of you guys in Washington/Oregon??If any of you know how to contact Davy Riggs, please let me know sothat Ican check on him and offer my services. (I'm the token list Minister)Thanks,Harry Steve Stillabower wrote: Hi All, Hey, has anyone who went into the cork order with Davy Riggsreceivedtheircork? I haven't heard diddly about it, but then again, I haven'tbeen onthe list for a while. If anyone knows what is happening, please letme know! Regards, Steve Steve and Julie StillabowerIndianapolis, IN ICQ 19299644 /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb? A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from hhholland@erols.com Wed Mar 10 08:16:40 1999 Subject: Re: The Ultimate Bamboo Fly Rod Library Chris,Just in case I forgot to congratulate you on the site earlier, consider itdone! It's a really fine job and an excellent resource. Thanks again.Hank H. -----Original Message----- Subject: The Ultimate Bamboo Fly Rod Library Dear List,Just a note that I completed an update of "The Ultimate Bamboo Fly RodLibrary" with the Articles & Periodicals section receiving the bulk of from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Mar 10 08:50:06 1999 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1998.03.08.20.27)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, Subject: Darn those maesurements I finished planing the tip section of my second rod last night, a PHY Para15 (heavy tip). Since there's some controversy about the ability to get aprecise measurement of a spline using a regular straight-jawed caliper, Ididn't measure as I planed. Instead, I set the forms very precisely andplaned away until I was flush with the top of the forms. (This is certainlymuch faster than measuring every few minutes). I have now assembled the plane strips using masking tape. The blank isn'tglued yet. I've marked the 5-inch stations on the blank and have takenmeasurements there across the flats of the assembled blanks. The goodnewsis that the sides are all within .001 of each other. The bad news is thatI'm consistently oversized everywhere on the blank. Here are themeasurements: PHY mine.078 .084.093 .100and so on to the butt....0225 .0325 So here are my questions:1. is it possible to get accurate readings on a blank that is simply tapedup. I'm trying to compress the splines with my fingers as hard as I canwhenmeasuring;2. the form settings for this rod are from PHY's actual form setting, not from a finished rod. So should I assume my measurements are correct asis?3. Should I close up the forms (for example, deduct .003 from the 0"station, etc) and try to hit the actual taper measurements? Since I haven't glued yet, I can easily take a few thousandths more off atthis point. Many thanks in advance, Richard from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Mar 10 09:19:35 1999 Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:16:19 -0600 Subject: Re: The great cork order?? Tony, Dick, Steve, and others;I've written David Riggs a nice note. I hope to hear from him soon, andwill keepyou posted.Harry Tony Young wrote: I've been thinking the same thing. I've emailed Davy without reply andalthought I haven't met him his sudden disapearance has bothered me abit.I know I've sent Davy some snail mail in the past but I can't find hisaddress, hopefuly it wasn't just on my last hard drive or it's goneforever. If anybody received from him the drawings on how to make a flyreel you may still have the return address. If so could you please let meknow what it is I'd like to write and see if everything's ok. Tony On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Harry Boyd wrote: Steve,Haven't heard anything, and I'm worried about Davy. He seems like astand upguy to me. I'm afraid something may have happened to him, like anillness or anaccident.Are there any of us on the list who know him personally, or live nearhim? Iknow he's in the Pacific Northwest, but that's about all I remember. Hecould bein bad shape, and I would like to at least offer my best wishes.How about some of you guys in Washington/Oregon??If any of you know how to contact Davy Riggs, please let me know sothat Ican check on him and offer my services. (I'm the token list Minister)Thanks,Harry Steve Stillabower wrote: Hi All, Hey, has anyone who went into the cork order with Davy Riggsreceived theircork? I haven't heard diddly about it, but then again, I haven't been onthe list for a while. If anyone knows what is happening, please letme know! Regards, Steve Steve and Julie StillabowerIndianapolis, IN ICQ 19299644 /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb?A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from anglport@con2.com Wed Mar 10 10:04:24 1999 Subject: Re: Darn those measurements Richard,A) Redo the strips.B) Measuring a taped up section, in my experience, does not give goodresults; in my case however, they were under- sized as I "over-squoze" thepart I was measuring and pushed out the other pieces. That of coursewouldmake your results farther out of whack.I have found, and others have told me, that you get better results inyoursettings if you make up some strips of random sizes (the settings youhaveright now f'rinstance) and use them to set/check your stations. That wayifyou have an uneven area in your groove the extra length of the strip lyingin the ways will tell you and allow you to adjust for the difference. Lay aruler across the ways and see what dinesion of triangle slips under it.You also may find that you are extremely careful and accurate inmaking/checking your first strip and then don't plane the same way onsusequent ones. I always mic out AT LEAST the first TWO strips (and moreifthey don't seem to readily want to agree). That way you can tell from thesecond's initial settings where you're not bearing down the same and thenif it's possible to bring the second's dimensions into line with the first's.Good luck on the second go'round,Art BTW, I just was able to put into words what I should have been able toexpress a long time ago. If you're having trouble with a particularly nastynode and you finally got it to roll over and play dead, when you stop theplane to change your holding position, don't EVER stop on that node; beforeit, after you've passed it, but NEVER on it 'til you're done with that strip! A 09:50 AM 3/10/99 -0500, Richard Nantel wrote:I finished planing the tip section of my second rod last night, a PHY Para15 (heavy tip). Since there's some controversy about the ability to get aprecise measurement of a spline using a regular straight-jawed caliper, Ididn't measure as I planed. Instead, I set the forms very precisely andplaned away until I was flush with the top of the forms. (This iscertainlymuch faster than measuring every few minutes). I have now assembled the plane strips using masking tape. The blank isn'tglued yet. I've marked the 5-inch stations on the blank and have takenmeasurements there across the flats of the assembled blanks. The goodnewsis that the sides are all within .001 of each other. The bad news is thatI'm consistently oversized everywhere on the blank. Here are themeasurements: PHY mine.078 .084.093 .100and so on to the butt....0225 .0325 So here are my questions:1. is it possible to get accurate readings on a blank that is simply tapedup. I'm trying to compress the splines with my fingers as hard as I canwhenmeasuring;2. the form settings for this rod are from PHY's actual form setting, not from a finished rod. So should I assume my measurements are correct asis?3. Should I close up the forms (for example, deduct .003 from the 0"station, etc) and try to hit the actual taper measurements? Since I haven't glued yet, I can easily take a few thousandths more off atthis point. Many thanks in advance, Richard from darrell01@netzero.net Wed Mar 10 11:31:07 1999 (199.174.249.9) Subject: Re[2]: The Ultimate Bamboo Fly Rod Library boundary="=PMail:=_0001@@8QsuU7DLghw43CVHkN2U" --=PMail:=_0001@@8QsuU7DLghw43CVHkN2U Here, Here! A fine job Chris! Darrell=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Mail::[] Subject: Re: The Ultimate Bamboo Fly Rod Library Chris,Just in case I forgot to congratulate you on the site earlier, consideritdone! It's a really fine job and an excellent resource. Thanks again.Hank H. -----Original Message----- Subject: The Ultimate Bamboo Fly Rod Library Dear List,Just a note that I completed an update of "The Ultimate Bamboo Fly RodLibrary" with the Articles & Periodicals section receiving the bulk of --=PMail:=_0001@@8QsuU7DLghw43CVHkN2U-- ________________________________________________________NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you?Get your FREE Internet Access and Email athttp://www.netzero.net/download.html from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Mar 10 15:49:55 1999 0600 Subject: Ray Gould Book Friends,Have any of you read Ray's book? I'm sure I'll pick up a copysoon, but I would be interested in your opinions of the book -Gould, Ray., Constructing Cane Rods: Secrets of the Bamboo FlyRod, Frank Amato [1999] - Thanks,Harry from jczimny@dol.net Wed Mar 10 17:01:48 1999 Subject: Re: Ray Gould Book I've read it and found it an outstanding explanation of the craft. Thepictures and charts are very nicely done. I would think that Ray's bookought to be in every serious maker's library.John Z. Harry Boyd wrote: Friends,Have any of you read Ray's book? I'm sure I'll pick up a copysoon, but I would be interested in your opinions of the book -Gould, Ray., Constructing Cane Rods: Secrets of the Bamboo FlyRod, Frank Amato [1999] - Thanks,Harry from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Mar 10 18:39:13 1999 0600 Subject: Re: Ray Gould Book Thanks to all who responded. I've only bought about $400 worth ofbooks in the past 2 years. Guess I'll add one more to the list!Harry from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Mar 10 20:31:56 1999 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1998.03.08.20.27)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, Subject: FW: Darn those measurements Further to my post this morning, the plot thickens (or thins, I'm not surewhich). I marked each station on my taped blank and then tightly added a