Subject: Measurements Guys,Being a rookie, I've missed something along the line here during the manyposts referring to measuring the depth along the planing form.I was wondering why, if the forms are made accurately to produce the 60degree angle required for a hex rod, isn't it possible to measure from oneside of the form to the other at the top edge of the groove and use thismeasurement for the width of the individual pieces. Using the 60 degreeangles would mean that from the end view you would be creating anequilateral triangle and therefore all the sides would be the same width,wouldn't they?Like I said, I'm a rookie, so if someone would show me where my thinkingis'off', I would appreciate it. I need a perspective reorientation!Thanks,Mike Doc (Mike Shaffer)(mschaffer@mindspring.com) from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Mar 17 12:33:46 1999 Thu, 18 Mar 1999 02:29:27 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Gehrke Poshiblaly im not in a fit state to coment ryte now cos its bin st patrikzday night and iyve had a few jars of Guinness had a few jars ov guinnesssshad a few andyhow i wunda wot beer old george drinks?? Have a great St Patricks day all, the pub's the only place to carry on aconversation as mute as the likely hood of George succeeding or not.Sounds like his prices will rise by the day untill he realises he's fullof p**s and wind and goes on to annoy the next minority group. I stillreckon he should run for congress. Not! Tony Well, of course George is free to charge whatever he wishes. That's notthe point here. The point is that George claims "our" prices areexorbitantly inflated. But I ask you, do any of you know any rod makers(charging between $800 - $1200) who have gotten rich from the fruits oftheir labors? Even if one were to gross $1200 per rod, your net profit after taxes,insurance, overhead, advertising and marketing, shop-setup andmaterialswouldn't be more than $600 - $700 per rod. So, you'd actually have tosell50 rods per year in order to net an annual income of $35,000. Would thatbe exorbitant? And do you think you could actually build 50 rods a yearand get them into the hands of customers? I think we can pretty safely ignore Gehrke. The market will take care ofhim. And I think we can also stop being apologetic in justifying the"market value" of our bamboo fly rods. Just do the math. Cheers, Bill ----------From: Jack Dale Cc: flyh2o@worldnet.att.net; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: GehrkeDate: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 7:08 AM If "what a rod is worth" equates to "what a buyer will pay," then it hasneverbeen the seller who really decides price. It's the buyer. If somebodywantsthe rod you've built badly enough to pay upwards of a thousand dollars then it's worth not one red cent less. If nobody wants to pay thatmuch,thenit's apparently worth some lesser price. I'm suggesting here that eachof youwho sell rods on a regular basis demonstrably has a pretty good idea ofwhatthose rods are worth. Maybe George Gehrke knows exactly what hisrodsareworth, too. The market will determine who's right and who is wrong. Ifheactually builds good fishing rods for $300, sign me up. If they turn outto be war clubs or fancy kindling, $300 is way too much. My point is, he'sfree tocharge whatever he wants, as long as he can get. Of course, he'd bewelladvised to wait until after he's actually proved his point beforeshooting hismouth off. Paul York wrote: A famous Gehrke Quote from his site: I assure you, my genius, my education, my intellectual abilitiesfar surpasses you in many areas. Gehrke - 23 March 1997 At 2:29 PM -0000 3/15/99, Michael Leitheiser wrote:Some time ago it was very trendy to espouse the thought that "youarewhatyou eat". If you think you "are you say" or in the context of theinternet, write, take a look at thishttp://members.xoom.com/the_gink/ Still concerned about the impact of George? See famous friends intheabove....Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane ______________________________________,,,,,\|/,.(_ /|\____________________________________ /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb? A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from Ed.Estlow@co.hennepin.mn.us Wed Mar 17 12:53:14 1999 1999 18:52:29 UT 16-1998)) id86256737.00676BBC ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:49:37 -0600 Subject: Re: Measurements Mike, What you say is correct, in theory. As it turns out, it's well nighimpossibleto make that measurement with any accuracy at all. In addition, we're notafterthe side of the triangle, we're after the height, which is the side x cos30*.This height is half the rod "diameter," a misnomer (albeit a convenientone) aswe're really measuring across flats. Hope this helps.Best regards,-Ed Estlow "michael w. shaffer" on 03/17/99 12:34:09PM Please respond to mschaffer@mindspring.com cc: Subject: Measurements Guys,Being a rookie, I've missed something along the line here during the manyposts referring to measuring the depth along the planing form.I was wondering why, if the forms are made accurately to produce the 60degree angle required for a hex rod, isn't it possible to measure from oneside of the form to the other at the top edge of the groove and use thismeasurement for the width of the individual pieces. Using the 60 degreeangles would mean that from the end view you would be creating anequilateral triangle and therefore all the sides would be the same width,wouldn't they?Like I said, I'm a rookie, so if someone would show me where my thinkingis'off', I would appreciate it. I need a perspective reorientation!Thanks,Mike Doc (Mike Shaffer)(mschaffer@mindspring.com) from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Wed Mar 17 15:59:15 1999 MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTPLevel 310) via TCP with SMTP ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:57:29 EST Subject: Re: crappie taper Incidentally the Martha Marie is included in Wayne's bk as a 5wt, and alsoin George Maurer's bk. It's a great taper, will throw quite a bit of line(70'+), and I use it regularly. (For me, it would be a bit too much rod --Bob. At 11:49 PM 3/16/99 EST, you wrote:I remember the PHY Martha Marie (7'6" 5/6) is touted as a great bluegillrodin the old Paul Young catalogs. I think the taper is in the online hexrodarchive. Rob Robert M. Milardo, Ph.D.17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581-3128 from fiveside@net-gate.com Wed Mar 17 18:09:22 1999 (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA29739 for ;Wed, 17 Mar 1999 Subject: Gehrke To the List.It's probably too late, but it is possible that all the negative commentsgenerated by us as makers could be used by someone like Gehrke in hisadvertising copy to strengthen his position whatever that may eventuallyturn out to be. Erin g' bragh. Bill from mrj@aa.net Wed Mar 17 22:02:17 1999 Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:02:13 -0800 Subject: RE: Measurements ?try to think of just how you would accurately measure this. you can't useamic because you have no surface to draw up on. A scale well...I mean, youcould use a scale, but you could be off by easily 20 thou or so. I supposeyou could use a really expensive scale and a microscope but that is waytoohard. I bet it could be done with a laser but I don't have one. It is simplyeasier to use a dial indicator with the 60 degree point. At most you are off thedimensions are when you are done planing. -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu shafferSent: Wednesday, March 17, 1999 10:34 AM Subject: Measurements Guys,Being a rookie, I've missed something along the line here during the manyposts referring to measuring the depth along the planing form.I was wondering why, if the forms are made accurately to produce the 60degree angle required for a hex rod, isn't it possible to measure from oneside of the form to the other at the top edge of the groove and use thismeasurement for the width of the individual pieces. Using the 60 degreeangles would mean that from the end view you would be creating anequilateral triangle and therefore all the sides would be the same width,wouldn't they?Like I said, I'm a rookie, so if someone would show me where mythinking is'off', I would appreciate it. I need a perspective reorientation!Thanks,Mike Doc (Mike Shaffer)(mschaffer@mindspring.com) from plipton@wrtsun02.svidaho.net Wed Mar 17 22:18:55 1999 "Jerry Snider" Subject: Real Seat Stains boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00D0_01BE70BB.B7B76F80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00D0_01BE70BB.B7B76F80 Harry: Applying potassium dichromate is quite simple. Mine came as a package of=crystals from Wade Garret. There are instruction on how much warmwater =to dissolved it in. I put a pint of it in a glass jar so I could drop =the real seat into the solution. It starts working immediately. After =five minutes, I removed the wood and rinse it in water. Allow it to dry =overnight, sand Lightly to remove the grain that is raised and seal. I =use the same finish that is on my rod. Phil PO Box 389,Sun Valley, ID 83353-0389208-726-9559, 208-622-8585 ------=_NextPart_000_00D0_01BE70BB.B7B76F80 =FF=FE=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=0D=00=0A==00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00=00=00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00H=00a=00r=00r=00y=00:=00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00=00=0D==00=0A==00=00=00A=00p=00p=00l=00y=00i=00n=00g=00 ==00p=00o=00t=00a=00s=00s=00i=00u=00m=00 ==00d=00i=00c=00h=00r=00o=00m=00a=00t=00e=00 =00i=00s=00 ==00q=00u=00i=00t=00e=00 =00s=00i=00m=00p=00l=00e=00.=00 ==00M=00i=00n=00e=00 =00c=00a=00m=00e=00 =00a=00s=00 =00a=00=00=0D=00=0A==00p=00a=00c=00k=00a=00g=00e=00 =00o=00f=00 ==00c=00r=00y=00s=00t=00a=00l=00s=00 =00f=00r=00o=00m=00 ==00W=00a=00d=00e=00 =00G=00a=00r=00r=00e=00t=00.=00 ==00T=00h=00e=00r=00e=00 =00a=00r=00e=00 ==00i=00n=00s=00t=00r=00u=00c=00t=00i=00o=00n=00 =00o=00n=00 ==00h=00o=00w=00 =00m=00u=00c=00h=00 =00w=00a=00r=00m=00=00=0D=00=0A==00w=00a=00t=00e=00r=00 =00t=00o=00 ==00d=00i=00s=00s=00o=00l=00v=00e=00d=00 =00i=00t=00=00i=00n=00.=00 ==00I=00 =00p=00u=00t=00 =00a=00 =00p=00i=00n=00t=00 =00o=00f=00 ==00i=00t=00 =00i=00n=00 =00a=00 =00g=00l=00a=00s=00s=00=00j=00a=00r=00 ==00s=00o=00 =00I=00 =00c=00o=00u=00l=00d=00 =00d=00r=00o=00p=00==00t=00h=00e=00 =00=0D=00=0A==00r=00e=00a=00l=00 =00s=00e=00a=00t=00 =00i=00n=00t=00o=00 ==00t=00h=00e=00 =00s=00o=00l=00u=00t=00i=00o=00n=00.=00=00I=00t=00 ==00s=00t=00a=00r=00t=00s=00 =00w=00o=00r=00k=00i=00n=00g=00 ==00i=00m=00m=00e=00d=00i=00a=00t=00e=00l=00y=00.=00 ==00A=00f=00t=00e=00r=00 =00f=00i=00v=00e=00 ==00m=00i=00n=00u=00t=00e=00s=00,=00 =00=0D=00=0A==00I=00 =00r=00e=00m=00o=00v=00e=00d=00 =00t=00h=00e=00 ==00w=00o=00o=00d=00 =00a=00n=00d=00 =00r=00i=00n=00s=00e=00=00i=00t=00 ==00i=00n=00 =00w=00a=00t=00e=00r=00.=00 =00A=00l=00l=00o=00w=00==00i=00t=00 =00t=00o=00 =00d=00r=00y=00 ==00o=00v=00e=00r=00n=00i=00g=00h=00t=00,=00 =00s=00a=00n=00d=00=00=0D=00=0A==00L=00i=00g=00h=00t=00l=00y=00 =00t=00o=00=00r=00e=00m=00o=00v=00e=00 ==00t=00h=00e=00 =00g=00r=00a=00i=00n=00 =00t=00h=00a=00t=00=00i=00s=00 ==00r=00a=00i=00s=00e=00d=00 =00a=00n=00d=00=00s=00e=00a=00l=00.=00 ==00I=00 =00u=00s=00e=00 =00t=00h=00e=00 =00s=00a=00m=00e=00 ==00f=00i=00n=00i=00s=00h=00 =00t=00h=00a=00t=00 =00=0D=00=0A==00i=00s=00 =00o=00n=00 =00m=00y=00 ==00r=00o=00d=00.=00=00=00=0D==00=0A==00=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00=00=0D==00=0A==00=00=00P=00h=00i=00l=00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00=00=0D==00=0A==00=00=00P=00h=00i=00l=00i=00p=00 ==00L=00i=00p=00t=00o=00n=00,=00 =00=00m=00a==00i=00l=00t=00o=00:=00p=00l=00i=00p=00t=00o=00n=00@=00s=00v=00i=00d=00a=00=h=00o=00.=00n=00e=00t=00=00=00P=00O=00 ==00B=00o=00x=00 =00=0D=00=0A==003=008=009=00,=00S=00u=00n=00 =00V=00a=00l=00l=00e=00y=00,=00==00I=00D=00 ==008=003=003=005=003=00- =000=003=008=009=00=002=000=008=00-=00=7=002=006=00- =009=005=005=009=00,=00 =00=0D=00=0A==002=000=008=00- =006=002=002=00- =008=005=008=005=00=00=00=00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00------ =_NextPart_000_00D0_01BE70BB.B7B76F80-- from utzerath@execpc.com Thu Mar 18 06:06:35 1999 Subject: RE: Real Seat Stains boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE7105.8888E280" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE7105.8888E280 "Classic Finishing Techniques" by Sam Allen (available for about $12 at =amazon.com) has 20 pages of natural (real) staining information =including a technique called "fuming" that could be used on cane if you =have a lifetime to experiment. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE7105.8888E280 "Classic Finishing Techniques" by Sam = (real) staining information including a technique called = experiment. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE7105.8888E280-- from mschaffer@mindspring.com Thu Mar 18 07:42:22 1999 Subject: Hand planes- help needed. It is my understanding that the Stanley #9 1/2 block plane is the tool ofchoice for planing the bamboo strips: however, I also understand that onecosts an arm and a leg.I do have a Stanley #60 1/2 block plane, as well as a couple of Baileystyleplanes (#3 and 4).My concern is what can I use as a substitute for the #9 1/2 Stanley? Anyhelp would be mucho appreciated!! Mike Doc (Mike Shaffer)(mschaffer@mindspring.com) from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Mar 18 08:35:05 1999 Thu, 18 Mar 1999 22:34:12 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: Hand planes- help needed. On Thu, 18 Mar 1999, michael w. shaffer wrote: It is my understanding that the Stanley #9 1/2 block plane is the tool ofchoice for planing the bamboo strips: however, I also understand that onecosts an arm and a leg.I do have a Stanley #60 1/2 block plane, as well as a couple of Baileystyleplanes (#3 and 4).My concern is what can I use as a substitute for the #9 1/2 Stanley? Anyhelp would be mucho appreciated!! Mike Doc (Mike Shaffer)(mschaffer@mindspring.com) I've used a 60-1/2 for most of the rods I've made and a while back boughta 9-1/2. The 9-1/2 is the best choice if you have to go buy a plane butit's a close thing between the two if you don't try removing too much caneon each stroke and keep the throat opening very fine or you'll get a bitof tear out with the 60-1/2.Just keep the plane iron v sharp in either case. Tony /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb? A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from rmoon@ida.net Thu Mar 18 08:38:46 1999 0000 Subject: Re: Hand planes- help needed. MikeA Stanley 9 1/2 can be had for something between $35-$50. Next to yourplaning form it is the most important part of your tooling. Don't Scimphere! Go beg borrow buy or steal one. It is worthevery cent.Ralph from mschaffer@mindspring.com Thu Mar 18 09:08:01 1999 Subject: Hand Planes-Help-Thank you I just wanted to thank everyone who responded to my inquiry about theStanley planes! I've located a source and will be looking at both theStanley and the Record versions. My understanding is that the Records arethe best vs the 'new' Stanleys. I never mind spending good money on goodtools, but never good money on bad tools! Mike Doc (Mike Shaffer)(mschaffer@mindspring.com) from bunyips@yahoo.com Thu Mar 18 12:54:02 1999 Subject: looking for sources for form building tools I'm working on building a set of planing forms, but I needto find a source for the 60 deg threading tool to cut thegroove. The local hardware shops don't seem to stock metalworking tools, would anyone know a location and part numberwhere I can order one? I have a dial indicator made by Federal, does anyone know ifthe 60deg contact points starrett sells will fit it? Speakingof contact points, the http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/supp.htmlwebsite lists the starrett part number as PT06632/6. I checked the MSC catalog, but they only seem to have the PT06632 #5 point,will the #5 work? Thanks,Rob _________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from mevans@acxiom.com Thu Mar 18 13:37:37 1999 (5.5.2448.0) Subject: RE: looking for sources for form building tools Robert,Give a Dimension Tool Company in Conway Arkansas a call at (501) 327-5649. I've been aregular in there lately. I've shown them an assembled metal form prior tocutting thegroove. These guys stock Starret, Mitutoyo, etc., at lower prices that Iusually find fromother suppliers. They have lathe bits and most of what you need in stock.(e.g. good 60*checks for about $4 compared to $12 for the Starret). I don't have part numbers but I've discussed all of the issues youmentioned in your notewith them so you'll probably get some decent help and good prices. Mention my name and theymake the connection to rod making. (Be patient with them, they are truegood ol boys fromArkansas in every sense - sep they don't do interns.). Good luck!Mark ----------From: Robert Altenburg [SMTP:bunyips@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 1999 12:53 PM Subject: looking for sources for form building tools I'm working on building a set of planing forms, but I needto find a source for the 60 deg threading tool to cut thegroove. The local hardware shops don't seem to stock metalworking tools, would anyone know a location and part numberwhere I can order one? I have a dial indicator made by Federal, does anyone know ifthe 60deg contact points starrett sells will fit it? Speakingof contact points, the http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/supp.html website lists the starrett part number as PT06632/6. I checked the MSC catalog, but they only seem to have the PT06632 #5 point,will the #5 work? Thanks,Rob _________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from briansr@point-net.com Thu Mar 18 13:56:14 1999 0000 Subject: WARNING!!! DO NOT BREATH THE FUMES from GINK!!!!Go to ROFF and read this idiotspost"the colour of cane" I particularly liked the part about building frominferior culms of cane!!!Apparently Crayola got a call from Geo. and askedthem if they'd like some flamed-cane carbon for their pencils!Cheers Brian from sonners2@bellsouth.net Thu Mar 18 14:57:49 1999 61-191.gso.bellsouth.net Thu, 18 Mar 199915:54:02 -0500 "Allan and Shirley Miller (E-mail)" ,"Allan and Shirley Miller (E-mail)" ,"Anthony & Mysti Sonner (E-mail)" ,"Anthony Hipps (E-mail)" ,"Bill Snow (E-mail)" "Clarence W. Rothrock (E-mail)" ,"Dave Engerbretson (E-mail)" ,"Debra Anderson (E-mail)" ,"Derek Brown (E-mail)" ,"FF@ (E-mail)" "George Moody (E-mail)","Greg Parkhurst (E-mail)","Heyward Wagner (E- mail)","Jeff Hatcher (E-mail)","Jim Brady (E-mail)" "Joe Nelson (E-mail)","Joe Nelson (E-mail 2)","Katharine Cannon (E- mail)","Katharine Cannon (E-mail 2)","Linda Heller (E-mail)" "Mary meadows (E-mail)" ,"Michael Johnson (E-mail)" ,"Michael Parillo (E-mail)" ,"Paul Grantham (E-mail)" ,"Paul Grantham (E-mail 2)" "Ron Greene (E-mail)","Russ Sciandra (E-mail)","Sara Bourquin (E- mail)","Shamika Jones (E-mail)","Steve Moize (E-mail)" "Tri-Fly (E-mail)","Tri-Fly Admin (E-mail)","Trout Ulimited News (E-mail)","TU Lines to Leaders (E-mail)","Wayne Clodfelter (E-mail)" Subject: please read this before any of my other messages. Ok everybody, before you all attack at once. I did not intentionally SPAMall of my friends.Here is the real story regarding the empty e mail that you recieved withjust my sig line.Usually when people forward me something I copy it and then paste it on ablank page to avoidreams and reams of forwarding messages. I recieved a message that wasabout a new virusonline. I really just wanted to warn everyone. so I copied it and meant topaste it andsend it to all of you. I must have gotten distracted or made an error. Because you guysdidn't get the pasted portion of my email I am so Sorry. I wouldn'tintentionally use myfriends in this manner. And I appologize if you think I would. this is a pitfall to having an automatic sig line. I do have a business that Iwould like topromote. But all of you know that because you are in my life. These siglines are really forother correspondance that I do. And it is easier just to leave theautomatic sig line on.many of you use servers or whatever that do the same thing. again Iappologize for myoffense. and thank you to those who pointed it out. ****************************************************************************************************Don't forget your dad. It's time to gear up for Spring Fishing and withFather's Day aroundthe corner, He could REEL-Y use some new equipment.ARC Outfitters we are "Fly Fishing Outfitters for the World." http://WWW.Triadwebhosting.com/ARC/**************************************************************************************************** from rambo2_98@yahoo.com Thu Mar 18 14:59:21 1999 1999 13:01:50 PST Subject: Re: looking for sources for form building tools Rob: Regarding the Starrett 60* point, the part number is PTO6632/6 (EDPNo. 70794). I ordered mine from MSC and they didn't stock it, so itwas drop-shipped from Starrett. I haven't a clue what the #5 is, but from the picture in my Starrett catalog it isn't even close to 60*. Jeff ---Robert Altenburg wrote: I'm working on building a set of planing forms, but I needto find a source for the 60 deg threading tool to cut thegroove. The local hardware shops don't seem to stock metalworking tools, would anyone know a location and part numberwhere I can order one? I have a dial indicator made by Federal, does anyone know ifthe 60deg contact points starrett sells will fit it? Speakingof contact points, the http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/supp.htmlwebsite lists the starrett part number as PT06632/6. I checked the MSC catalog, but they only seem to have the PT06632 #5 point,will the #5 work? Thanks,Rob _________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Mar 18 15:51:00 1999 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: looking for sources for form building tools In a message dated 3/18/99 6:56:38 PM, bunyips@yahoo.com wrote: Rob - You need to find an Industrial supply house. If you live in an areawhere there are any tool and die shops, there will be one. If not, TryTraversTool in NYC, or MSC, which I think is nationwide. The part is a simple lathecutting tool, which will be cheap. Basically, they are just a 1/4" squarebarwith a 60 degree point on one end. Sometimes the point is a carbide insert.Iwould also suggest that you set up a triangle file cutter as described inTomPenrose's web site, as you will most likely need it to smooth out thegroove. from mschaffer@mindspring.com Thu Mar 18 16:44:33 1999 Subject: Tools for building forms-- Rob,Here are two sources to try: MSC--1-800-645-7270 Nolan Supply--1-800-721-4685 Hope this is of help, Mike Doc (Mike Shaffer)(mschaffer@mindspring.com) from utzerath@execpc.com Thu Mar 18 20:07:49 1999 Subject: RE: Reel Seat Stains boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE7178.D74FD4A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE7178.D74FD4A0 Is "fuming" the technique utilizing ammonia that many rodmakers refer to=asbrowntoning? Bill Lamberson Apparently so; though I haven't heard the term "browntoning" before. = In his book Allen shows a tent make of poly sheeting confining ammonia =gas from containers of ammonium hydroxide solution. The method darkens=tannins, which may be applied separately to tannin-deficient woods, in =24 hours. He states that the gas will even penetrate finishes. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE7178.D74FD4A0 Is "fuming" the technique utilizing ammonia that many = refer to asbrowntoning?Bill Lamberson Apparently so; though I haven't heard the term = In his book Allen shows a tent make of poly sheeting confining = darkens = tannins, which may be applied separately to tannin-deficient woods, in = finishes. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE7178.D74FD4A0-- from gaff@carol.net Thu Mar 18 21:16:19 1999 Thu, 18 Mar 1999 22:16:12 -0500 Subject: Re: looking for sources for form building tools mevans - Mark Evans wrote: Robert,Give a Dimension Tool Company in Conway Arkansas a call at (501) 327-5649. I've been aregular in there lately. I've shown them an assembled metal form prior tocutting thegroove. These guys stock Starret, Mitutoyo, etc., at lower prices that Iusually find fromother suppliers. They have lathe bits and most of what you need in stock.(e.g. good 60*checks for about $4 compared to $12 for the Starret). I don't have part numbers but I've discussed all of the issues youmentioned in your notewith them so you'll probably get some decent help and good prices. Mention my name and theymake the connection to rod making. (Be patient with them, they are truegood ol boys fromArkansas in every sense - sep they don't do interns.). Good luck!Mark ----------From: Robert Altenburg [SMTP:bunyips@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 1999 12:53 PM Subject: looking for sources for form building tools I'm working on building a set of planing forms, but I needto find a source for the 60 deg threading tool to cut thegroove. The local hardware shops don't seem to stock metalworking tools, would anyone know a location and part numberwhere I can order one? I have a dial indicator made by Federal, does anyone know ifthe 60deg contact points starrett sells will fit it? Speakingof contact points, the http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/supp.html website lists the starrett part number as PT06632/6. I checkedthe MSC catalog, but they only seem to have the PT06632 #5 point,will the #5 work? Thanks,Rob _________________________________________________________DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com mark,thanks for the tip. i called dorthy at dimension tool and ordered the60* lathe tool, only $4.22 for the carbide tipped E-8 (1/2" shaft).you were correct when you stated that they were nice folks. they bentover backwards to assist this newbie that wasn't sure what he wanted.thanks again,wil from jwilcox@netsync.net Thu Mar 18 22:18:53 1999 Subject: hand planes boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0026_01BE7195.C32C9FE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BE7195.C32C9FE0 guys, i'v told others about lie-nielsen's new 20 degree 9 1/2 block =plane. this plane is an absolute gem! yes, it's expensive, but it fits =your hand like a glove. rocking and tipping as you plane is nearly =non-existent. it's much easier to plane with than either a stanley or a =record(i have both). try one. you'll never regret the investment. jim =wilcox ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BE7195.C32C9FE0 ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BE7195.C32C9FE0-- from OBorge@aiss.uic.edu Fri Mar 19 06:40:24 1999 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: WARNING!!! ROFF is an open list. If I wanted read what George G. thought I wouldsubscribe.In fact I unsubscribed from ROFF years ago so I wouldn't have to hearit.I suggest the people who want to keep up with Mr. G. Subscribe to ROFF.I usually delete the messages that refer to GINK. But I opened this bymistake. Sorry for the whine. Olaf BorgeSystems Programmer/System SoftwareUniversity of Illinois/AISS/CNO312/996-5212 -----Original Message-----From: Brian Sturrock [SMTP:briansr@point- net.com]Sent: Thursday, March 18, 1999 1:51 PM Subject: WARNING!!! DO NOT BREATH THE FUMES from GINK!!!!Go to ROFF and read this idiotspost"the colour of cane" I particularly liked the part about building frominferior culms of cane!!!Apparently Crayola got a call from Geo. andaskedthem if they'd like some flamed-cane carbon for their pencils!Cheers Brian from HARMS1@prodigy.net Fri Mar 19 08:14:27 1999 Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:14:10 -0500 Subject: Re: hand planes =_NextPart_000_01BE71E8.9A7BAB60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE71E8.9A7BAB60 Jim is dead on the money about the little Lie-Nielsen planes. A lot of ourmoney and worry is wasted on high-tech "overkill" in this pursuit of ours, butthere is one indispensable tool which, in a sense, does all the work. Thatis the plane itself. Here, if nowhere else, you need the very best andmust not scrimp or cut corners. The Stanley planes are perfect for hogging off the bulk of the cane . Infact, any of the Stanley wannabes are equally useful for this -- and a good iron ismore important than the plane anyhow. But when it is time to shave thelast ten-thousandths down to the surface of the form, you need theprecisecontrol and feel that only a truly fine plane can provide. Yes, theLie-Nielsen is pricey, but this above everything else, is not the place topinch your pennies. The difference between the little Lie-Nielsen and aStanley is like the difference between a new BMW and an old Chevy Suburban. You won't know 'till you try. (No interest in product or manufacturer). Cheers, Bill---------- Subject: hand planes guys, i'v told others about lie-nielsen's new 20 degree 9 1/2 block plane.this plane is an absolute gem! yes, it's expensive, but it fits your handlike a glove. rocking and tipping as you plane is nearly non-existent. it's much easier to plane with than either a stanley or a record(i haveboth). try one. you'll never regret the investment. jim wilcox ------=_NextPart_000_01BE71E8.9A7BAB60 Jim is dead on the money = of ours, but there is one indispensable tool which, in a sense, does all = you need the very best and must not scrimp or cut corners. = useful for this -- and a good iron is more important than the plane = ten-thousandths down to the surface of the form, you need the precise = little Lie-Nielsen and a Stanley is like the difference between a = try.(No interest in product or manufacturer).Cheers, =Bill----------From: James Wilcox = =18, 1999 8:19 PMguys, = ------=_NextPart_000_01BE71E8.9A7BAB60-- from BThoman@neonsoft.com Fri Mar 19 09:42:16 1999 Subject: Lie-Neilson Block Plane What would be the difference between using the 20* block plane and thelowangle adjustable mouth plane besides the adjustable mouth? Of those thathave the Lie-Neilson, how may have the adjustable throat model? On themodel without the adjustable throat, how small is the opening? Assumingprice didn't matter and you could have only one (in addition to a Record orStanley) which one would you buy? Brian from pmartino@fvcc.cc.mt.us Fri Mar 19 12:26:08 1999 Subject: Garrison 212 or 212E I am in the process of building my first bamboo flyrod... I am tryingto decide between a Garrison 212 or 212E taper. The power fibers on theone culmn that was given to me are exceptional @ ~0.200". I would havefollowed the advice of many builders and started with a lower gradeculmn, but I only have the one culmn. Anyway, I have a few questionsbefore I start final planing the 18 strips that are each 53"-55" inlength. 1) I am planing a trip to the big hole for mid July, and want to knowif either of these rods are a good choice for big tailwater nymphing anddryfly presentation. If so, should I modify one tip for drys and theother for nymphs, or just go with the standard tip? (other rod tapersuggestions?) 2) What is the difference between the action of a 212 and 212E. Is onemore suitable for drys and the other nymphs?Will they both cast a 6wt DTF line equally well? 3) I am curious to know what effect my flaming the cane will have. Ihave flamed the cane, and suspect that the additional tempering willproduce a stiffer rod action, perhaps affecting the presentation ofdrys. I noticed that Everett Garrison's instructions are for a blondrod. 4) When do I cut my strips down to the final 48" length? Does itmatter? Can I take some from the top and the bottom of each strip toavoid a bad node or a non- equilateral triangle or two during the finalplaning, or is recommended that I wait until the strips have beenglued. At some point, I assume that if you cut or not cut, that youmust decide where you will cut before getting to the final taper. Howdo some of you manage this? I plan to use URAC 185 to glue the strips (I would prefer resourcinol,but can't find a source- help would definately be appreciated.) Willthe lighter colored URAC 185 show up as a contrast with the flamed cane,or will it be less noticeable than resourcinol? To tell the truth, Iwish that I could find resourcinol, since I like the purple lines (Iwill use the alcohol per Garrison), and from what I have read so far(and I am just beginning)- there is no better... Besides, I would liketo stay with tradition with my first rod. Best Regards, Paul MartinoKalispell, Montana from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Mar 19 15:27:58 1999 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Garrison 212 or 212E In a message dated 3/19/99 6:33:04 PM, pmartino@fvcc.cc.mt.us wrote: Paul - All the responses below are one person's opinion, and should betakenaccordingly, in other words IMHO. 1. This being your first rod, I would stick to the taper as designed. The212/212E is a great rod, either taper is a 6 weight. 2. Given that you are fishing big water, I would go with the 212E 3. Flaming may make the rod a bit stiffer, but the taper is the key element.Build the flamed rod if that is what you like. 4. Glue up the sticks before you cut to finish length. Lots of things canaffect your tolerances, and you may be happy to have some leeway if yourdimensions end up a bit off. 5. Personally, I think that Urac makes a slightly stiffer rod. You won't haveany color trouble if your seams are good. Resourcinol is widely availablefromhardware, paint, boating, and lumber stores. You should be able to find itlocally.Either will make you a fine rod. What I am trying to tell you is don't worry about the fine points on yourfirst rod. You have a lot to learn, and you can only learn it by doing. Fornow, worry about splitting, working the nodes, and accurate planing. Youcanstart refining technique after you learn to handle the material. from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Mar 19 18:46:04 1999 sherman.shentel.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA22223; "HARMS1@prodigy.net" boundary="_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862672=_=_=_"Subject: Re: hand planes --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862672=_=_=_ Bill I agree on knowing where to spend your money - however I wouldrecommend thatpeople start first with their Final Forms. I have one of the new planes andused it - now allI wantis a Hock blade for it - I did not care for the stock one as much as I do forthe Hocks.However,without a good form your are just . . . . P.S. I will now take the Old Suburban over the BMW (I once had a M5)because it willget mewhere I need to go fishing which is far from the Interstate / Autobahn. Chris --Original Message Text--- Jim is dead on the money about the little Lie-Nielsen planes. A lot of ourmoney and worry is wasted on high-tech "overkill" in this pursuit of ours, butthere is oneindispensable tool which, in a sense, does all the work. That is the plane itself. Here, if nowhere else, youneed the very bestand must not scrimp or cut corners. The Stanley planes are perfect for hogging off the bulk of the cane . Infact, any of the Stanley wannabes are equally useful for this -- and a good iron ismore important thanthe plane anyhow. But when it is time to shave the last ten-thousandths down to the surface of theform, you need theprecise control and feel that only a truly fine plane can provide. Yes, the Lie-Nielsen is pricey, but this aboveeverythingelse, is not the place to pinch your pennies. The difference between the little Lie-Nielsen and a Stanley islike the differencebetween a new BMW and an old Chevy Suburban. You won't know 'till you try. (No interest in product or manufacturer). Cheers, Bill---------- Subject: hand planes guys, i'v told others about lie-nielsen's new 20 degree 9 1/2 block plane. this plane is anabsolute gem! yes, it's expensive, but it fits your hand like a glove. rocking and tipping as you plane is nearlynon-existent.it's much easier to plane with than either a stanley or a record(i have both). try one. you'll never regret theinvestment.jim wilcox Regards Chris --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862672=_=_=_ Bill I agree on knowing where to spend your money - however I wouldrecommend thatpeople start first with their Final Forms. I have one of the new planes andused it - now allI wantis a Hock blade for it - I did not care for the stock one as much as I do forthe Hocks.However,without a good form your are just . . . . P.S. I will now take the Old Suburban over the BMW (I once had a M5)because it will getmewhere I need to go fishing which is far from the Interstate /Autobahn. Chris --Original Message Text---From: WILLIAM A HARMSDate: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:12:25 -0800 Jim is dead on the money about the little Lie-Nielsenplanes. A lot of ourmoney and worry is wasted on high-tech "overkill" in this pursuit of ours, butthere is oneindispensable tool which, in a sense, does all the work. That is the planeitself. Here, ifnowhere else, you need the very best and must not scrimp or cut corners. The Stanley planes are perfect for hogging off the bulk of the cane . Infact, any of the Stanley wannabes are equally useful for this -- and a good iron ismore important thanthe plane anyhow. But when it is time to shave the last ten-thousandthsdown to the surfaceof the form, you need the precise control and feel that only a truly fineplane can provide.Yes, the Lie-Nielsen is pricey, but this above everything else, isnot the place topinch your pennies. The difference between the little Lie-Nielsen and aStanley is like thedifference between a new BMW and an old Chevy Suburban. You won't know 'till you try. (No interest in product or manufacturer). Cheers, Bill---------- Subject: hand planes guys, i'v told others aboutlie-nielsen's new 20degree 9 1/2 block plane. this plane is an absolute gem! yes, it'sexpensive, but it fitsyour hand like a glove. rocking and tipping as you plane is nearly non-existent. it's mucheasier to plane with than either a stanley or a record(i have both). try one. you'll neverregret the investment. jim wilcox --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862672=_=_=_-- from Turbotrk@aol.com Fri Mar 19 21:07:00 1999 Subject: test this is only a test of my email which is non exsistant. from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Fri Mar 19 21:50:01 1999 with ESMTP id ;Sat, 20 Mar 1999 03:49:28 +0000 Subject: Re: test I hear you!! Dennis Turbotrk@aol.com wrote: this is only a test of my email which is non exsistant. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Mar 19 22:08:20 1999 Sat, 20 Mar 1999 12:05:22 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: Lie-Neilson Block Plane On Fri, 19 Mar 1999, Thoman, Brian wrote: What would be the difference between using the 20* block plane and thelowangle adjustable mouth plane besides the adjustable mouth? Of thosethathave the Lie-Neilson, how may have the adjustable throat model? On themodel without the adjustable throat, how small is the opening? Assumingprice didn't matter and you could have only one (in addition to a RecordorStanley) which one would you buy? Brian Besides the dif in iron angle of attack the adjustable mouth is veryimportant and is one reason the various adjustable mouth planes will allwork, some better than others.When a plane takes a cut the material being cut wants to splinter alongthe length of the material particualy in the case of a low angle plane (orchisel for eg.) by keeping the mouth close to the edge of the iron thespliner gets lifted by the iron but it's broken by the mouth so becomes acurled shaving and dosn't splinter along the length of the material beingplaned. Imagine pushing a chisel at the same angle, the material willsplit until you adjust the angle of attack. The important thing to remember is you need to adjust the mouth openingrelative to the depth of the cut, a closed mouth with a deep cut clogs upand a wide opening with a shallow cut splits and tears the cane, I thinkthis is one reason the 60-1/2 gives people trouble. You can't take thedepth of cut with it you can with the 9-1/2 as the angle of the iron islower so the tendency to split is greater if the mouth is opened enough toallow the chips to clear on a deeper cut. If the mouth is closed up youneed to reduce the depth of cut so the process is slower, however it has resistance than the 9- 1/2 during the cut and IMHO should be better for planing nodes if properly adjusted. I could be wrong here as I makenodeless rods so I'm only guessing. The difference between the brands of plane comes down to personal prefandlike getting a good hammer or saw that's important. If you like the planeyou use you'll use it more and have a better regard for it and probsharpen the iron more often so you'll do better work. As for the LN, if you like it buy it. I certainly would if I could onlyfind the $300 it'd cost right now here in Australia. Tony /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb? A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from jwilcox@netsync.net Fri Mar 19 22:42:32 1999 Subject: planes boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE7262.3D921D60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE7262.3D921D60 brian and others: i actually use two lie-nielsen planes for my cane work. i use =their new adjustable mouth 9 1/2 bedded at 20 degrees. i have a 50 =micro-bevel on the blade. i use this plane for the bulk of the planing. =i use a lie-nielsen #103sp , also bedded at 20 degrees for the final =thousandth or so. i have a 50 degree micro-bevel on this blade as well. =this plane is especially nice in the hand for those last few passes =over the strips. it is particularly useful when planing tips. you get =a nice feel with this little guy. you can easily feel the blade when it =is on the steel and no longer cutting cane. the #103 sp comes with =interchangeable throat plates. you can change the plates to get the =adjustment that you find necessary for you particular need. as i said =before, these planes are not cheap, but i think the ease of planing they =afford justifies the cost. = while i'm on the topic of planing(this is more for those newer to =bamboo rodmaking) when you think your blade might be dull, it probably =is. you can't plane acccurately with a dull blade. it only takes a =couple minutes to touch up the edge and bring it back to a razor sharp =instrument. we all get sloppy from time to time and we dull our blades. =hitting the steel once is enough to make a difference. stop! resharpen =the blade. you're willing to spend 60-70 hours or more to build the rod =in the first place. a few extra minutes sharpening a plane blade is = ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE7262.3D921D60 brian and =others: use = you can easily feel the blade when it is on the steel and no longer = you can change the plates to get the adjustment that you find necessary = the ease of planing they afford justifies the = while i'm on the topic of planing(this is more for those newer to bamboo = rodmaking) when you think your blade might be dull, it probably = to touch up the edge and bring it back to a razor sharp = willing to spend 60-70 hours or more to build the rod in the first = a few extra minutes sharpening a plane blade is nothing compared to ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE7262.3D921D60-- from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Sat Mar 20 01:12:07 1999 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id UAA10834 for ;Sat, 20 Mar 199920:11:29 +1300 Subject: southern hemisphere gathering Well.. We have three starters so far , and at least one maybe. Tony is right of course. The fishing is better in New Zealand thenAustralia.[ :))] For those " thinking" about it the NZ dollar is presentlyalmosthalf the value of the US dollar. This means you can use $53 of thosegreenbacks to pay a $100 new zealand account. ( Sorry about that to theCanadians , we know how you feel) Similarily the European currencies arevery strong against the $NZ.Costs down here are a little dearer in straight dollar terms ie beforemaking the exchange adjustment. A motel is around $65 to $100 a night innzdollars , but normally they have kitchens and sleep 2 - 4. A campervan isprobably a better bet as it gives the ability to pull up in camping groundsand access points beside rivers. I can check the price of those , they areseasonal and less expensive in the off season. Most rivers in New Zealandhave free access and many run alongside roads. There are also manycampinggrounds which are quite cheap, and there are also flash fishing lodges at$500- $800 per night Timing depends on when people are available to travel. November isprobablybettertrout fishing , but no salmon fishing. Salmon are probably not the best forbamboo rods anyway . Weather can be a problem ( I regret to admit) withwindsometimes being a problem in October/November but dry weather and lowwaterflows sometimes being a problem in Febuary / March. The fishing inwinter isgreat in places like Taupo , if you do not mind lure fishing with ice on thelines , but most other areas of New Zealand have closed seasons at thattime. This makes linking with the Olympics a little difficult . In balance October/November is probably the best fishing, but any timethrough to end of April is pretty good. from my biased point of view Ibelieve the top of the South island has the best fishing , about 30 riverswithin 2 hours of home , and would be happy to organise something in thisarea. ie Nelson. Also happy to suggest travelling routes and rivers foranyone who is looking to do a tour. If anyone is interested contact me direct and we will see what we canorganise. regards Iank from RZBG79A@prodigy.com Sat Mar 20 09:47:05 1999 KAA17060 forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 10:41:48 - 0500 Subject: planes While we are talking about planes, How about the Rali 105?Does anyone have any experience with this plane? There was an article in the Planing Form awhile back regarding this plane .Craig from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Mar 20 10:30:31 1999 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: planes In a message dated 3/20/99 3:50:47 PM, RZBG79A@prodigy.com wrote: Craig - I still like the Rali. It does a nice job on cane, and has littletendency to tear out nodes. About the only negative is that the really fineadjustments for finish planing are tricky. One of the standard block planesisprobably better for this work. I am now able to hone the Rali blades on my leather wheel set up, and get alot more use out of them. Before I started doing that I found I could expect6strips per edge before the blade dulled. I think an experienced builder will be happier with one of the traditionalplanes, but a newbie without experience with sharpening technique mightconsider the Rali. from schanze@ibm.net Sat Mar 20 12:40:04 1999 (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA40758 for ;Sat, 20 Mar 199918:39:57 GMT Subject: Smithwick Binder I would like to build a Smithwick Binder but am having trouble findingthe parts. Where is a good source for the wheels used as the drives?Is there any place in the Northern Va area that would carry them? Also,does anyone happen to know of a source for 1/4 inch brass rods? I havetried all the hardware stores nearby. Thanks in advance for any help.Steve Schanzer from espy@us.hsanet.net Sat Mar 20 14:20:54 1999 Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B4_01BE72E4.B38C9F40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B4_01BE72E4.B38C9F40 UNSUBSCRIBE espy@us.hsanet.net ------=_NextPart_000_00B4_01BE72E4.B38C9F40 UNSUBSCRIBE espy@us.hsanet.net ------=_NextPart_000_00B4_01BE72E4.B38C9F40-- from espy@us.hsanet.net Sat Mar 20 14:20:55 1999 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_007B_01BE72E4.5E4D8080" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_007B_01BE72E4.5E4D8080 ------=_NextPart_000_007B_01BE72E4.5E4D8080 ------=_NextPart_000_007B_01BE72E4.5E4D8080-- from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Mar 20 16:03:04 1999 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Smithwick Binder In a message dated 3/20/99 6:46:16 PM, schanze@ibm.net wrote: Steve - I used standard machine pulleys on the original, I would think anywell stocked hardware store or home center would have them. 1/4" brass rod is a standard product, it should be available from a metalservice center. You might also find it available from a hobby shop. from jkallo@midwest.net Sat Mar 20 20:46:09 1999 Subject: Tape and Binding Hello all, I just walked in from binding an 8.5' version on Wayne's "Force." I decidedto take Sir D's suggestion concerning binding over the strips of maskingtape used to hold the strips together while applying glue, and the resultswere superb. The tape seems to hold the strips in place and keep twists from forming-my straightening time was easily cut in half. For those ofusstill winding the dental floss by hand, this is a real boon as time is at apremium as it is. Thought I'd pass along the info as well as copious thanksto Darryl. Best,Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sat Mar 20 20:55:52 1999 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1998.03.08.20.27)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, Subject: Whacking technique I can't remember who recently suggested whacking a freshly glued blanktostraighten it but many thanks are in order. For my first rod, I rolled withboth hands, used a roller, used a flat piece of glass, chased bends down theblank pool cue-like, etc. With this last one, I held it by the butt andwhacked it down on a flat surface. I whacked it six times, once on eachface. The resulting tip and butt are arrow straight. All told, it took maybe5 minutes per section. Many thanks to the inventor of this technique for passing on the info. Richard from Finanplanr@aol.com Sun Mar 21 03:29:25 1999 Subject: Renny Greenmun????? Folks, Do any of you happen to know if Renny Greenmun has changed his e- mailaddressor if he has moved? I have his book ready to ship to him but can't seem tocontact him. Any info would be appreciated. Many thanks,Stuart Kirkfield from mschaffer@mindspring.com Sun Mar 21 08:46:53 1999 Subject: Binders and rod twisting Another newby question, if you don't mind:I have read and heard that some binders may have a tendency to cause therodto twist during the binding stage after glueing, and because I will bemaking my own binder, could someone enlighten me as to which binderseems tocause the least amount of twist in the rod. Thanks for the help, Mike Doc (Mike Shaffer)(mschaffer@mindspring.com) from cattanac@wmis.net Sun Mar 21 09:15:48 1999 mail4.wmis.net (8.8.8/SCO5) Subject: Re: Binders and rod twisting Doc -There are a couple of issues that deal with binding that can save youtime grief.Perhaps the best is to mount the binder on a L shaped support board - 6'works well - with the binder centered - this allows you to add incomingandoutgoing supports. these supports keep the rod section from bowing to thefloor and the straightening that that would cause. I use 1/2' plywood arms(3 on each side) spaced at 9" from the binder and then every 9" after that -the arms have a 1 1/2" dia arch cut in them and the bottom of the arch hasbeen placed so that it line up with the binder arms both axis. Years ago Ifirst though that I could use PVC pipe split in two - but then I realizedthe contact that would be caused with the glue and the chance of addedtwists that that could cause.To adjust the tensions - 3/4 # for first pass - 1 1/4# for second - oryou might try just the 3/4 # both ways - the binding thread should be setat1 1/4# - you can do this adjustment by attaching the weight to the threadand adjust the tensioner(s) so that the thread weight will just pull threadwhen the weight is touched with the finger.Another insight which has nothing to do with the binder is this - thewire shelf in the oven. If you create an oven with a wire shelf (my designor the air heat version) the shelf need to lay flat. On the sytle I havemade - where the shelf is bent up of hardware cloth - after the shelf is inplace - take a flat board and run it inside the oven and then whack the topsurface of the shelf with it - this will take out any waves or twists thatmight be present. If the oven is used for thermal setting of glue there isthe possibility of the rod section following to the bows or twists of theshelf and unstraight sections can be created. HEY - Best of Luck and Have Fun With This Wayne -----Original Message----- Subject: Binders and rod twisting Another newby question, if you don't mind:I have read and heard that some binders may have a tendency to cause therodto twist during the binding stage after glueing, and because I will bemaking my own binder, could someone enlighten me as to which binderseemstocause the least amount of twist in the rod.Thanks for the help, Mike Doc (Mike Shaffer)(mschaffer@mindspring.com) from espy@us.hsanet.net Sun Mar 21 11:20:58 1999 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0078_01BE7394.C5A17740" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0078_01BE7394.C5A17740 UNSUBSCRIBE List_espy@us.hsanet.net END ------=_NextPart_000_0078_01BE7394.C5A17740 END ------=_NextPart_000_0078_01BE7394.C5A17740-- from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sun Mar 21 11:58:13 1999 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1998.03.08.20.27)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, Subject: RE: Whacking technique I would much prefer if the person who initially suggested whacking wouldstep forth to explain this technique. But, here's what I did: The blank came out of the binder with a bit of a bow. I started by whackingthe side that had the outside of the bow (in other words, if you placed theblank against the workbench, the tip would be raised off the surface). Iheld the blank vertically at the butt section between my thumb and indexfinger. I held the butt against my workbench. Then, I pressed down near thebutt with my free hand and whacked the section against my workbench. Ididn't use a lot of force but it did go down faster than through just theuse of gravity. I then turned the blank to the next flat and repeated it. I wouldn't worry about the tip section since your blank is wrapped whenyouare doing this and I suspect the thread protects the tip. Also, I used URACwhen I did this. I don't know how or if it would work with epoxy. Richard -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Whacking technique Richard Nantel wrote: I can't remember who recently suggested whacking a freshly glued blanktostraighten it but many thanks are in order. For my first rod, I rolledwithboth hands, used a roller, used a flat piece of glass, chased bends downtheblank pool cue-like, etc. With this last one, I held it by the butt andwhacked it down on a flat surface. I whacked it six times, once on eachface. The resulting tip and butt are arrow straight. All told, it tookmaybe5 minutes per section. Many thanks to the inventor of this technique for passing on the info. RichardRichard, could you describe this technique completely for some ofus. It sounds promissing but I cant imagine whacking a tip section inthis manner.I too stuggle with straightening and would be thrilled to getsome help. Thanks, Ed Miller. from robert.kope@cwix.com Sun Mar 21 12:44:58 1999 with SMTP id forRODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu;Sun, 21 Mar 1999 18:44:15 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Bogart's Big Dog Taper boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE7388.020856C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE7388.020856C0 I want to build a steelhead rod and have the strips rough planed and =tempered. I want a 9 to 9 1/2 ft 8 wt, and was planning on using the =taper from Chris Bogart's Shenandoah Special, but I got to looking at it =and something looks wrong with the stress curve plotted in the taper =archives. The stresses look way too low for the line weight and dimensions of the =rod. In fact, the rod dimensions look more like a 5 or 6 wt to me. I =realize that a weight forward line has far less weight once you get past =the forward section, but to reproduce the stress curve in the taper =archives using Frank Stetzer's hexrod program, I need to reduce the line =length to about 25 feet from the 80 feet shown on the stress curve in =the archives. If you compute the stresses with 80 feet of line, the =stresses go well above 400,000. Have others built and fished this rod? Are stresses this high a problem =or am I too anal about the math? Thanks in advance for any help, Robert Kope ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE7388.020856C0 I want to build a steelhead rodand = planning on using the taper from Chris Bogart's Shenandoah Special, but = looking at it and something looks wrong with the stress curve plotted in = taper archives. The stresses look way too low for= weight once you get past the forward section, but to reproduce the = in the taper archives using Frank Stetzer's hexrod program, I need to = line length to about 25 feet from the 80 feet shown on the stress curve = go well above 400,000. high a problem or am I too anal about the math? Thanks in advance for any help, Robert Kope ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE7388.020856C0-- from ballard@orion.wes.army.mil Sun Mar 21 15:54:36 1999 with Novell_GroupWise; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 15:59:34 -0600 ; Sun, 21 Mar 99 15:59:20 CST Subject: REC uniferrules Does any have one have any experience using REC's new uniferrules? And how does the weight differ compared toSuper Swiss? Would the weight be different enough tore-do stress curves using Hexrod type programs?Opinions are welcome. Thanks,Jerry Ballard from chris@artistree.com Sun Mar 21 17:18:45 1999 Subject: Re: REC uniferrules mac-creator="4D4F5353" Jerry,I haven't actually weighed them but they seem to weight the same as theSuper Swiss. They might be just a hair bit heavier but IMHO not enoughto effect your stress curve.--Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com Jerry Ballard wrote: Does any have one have any experience using REC's newuniferrules? And how does the weight differ compared toSuper Swiss? Would the weight be different enough tore-do stress curves using Hexrod type programs?Opinions are welcome. Thanks,Jerry Ballard from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Mar 21 19:57:58 1999 Subject: Re: REC uniferrules Jerry,I've had quite a bit of experience with REC'S Uniferruleand tell you they are very good. The weight difference isnominal between REC's and Bailey Woods. Give them a try. Dave L. from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Mon Mar 22 08:43:14 1999 0500 Subject: taper design I was final planing the tip strips of my Sir D special the othernight,musing over the way the steepness of the taper changes from station tostation - a change in .010 over this five inches, .004 (or so) thenext,etc. - and thinking that our craft has plenty of "how-to" literature,but very little theoretical information on taper design. It seemsthatevery six months or so another book comes out telling you how toplane,glue up, and adorn a blank. The two books I have, Garrison andCattanach, generously give tapers, and tapers can be computed usingseveral software programs freely available. But, apart from a few (tome, rather unintelligible - I don't understand engineer- speak)chaptersin Garrison that address the subject, there doesn't seem to beanythingthat talks about how specific features of a taper produce certaineffects peculiar to that taper. E.G., what effect is created by a.010slope between two stations on a 7' 4 weight rod? What would be thedifference if you switched the positions of the .010 and the .004slopes? How does the placement of the "hinge" effect roll casting,andwhat features of a taper produce a "hinge", and what other performancecharacteristics might be sacrificed or enhanced by producing it? Whatmakes one rod "sweet" and another a "cannon"? I think a well writtenbook on this would be fascinating, although it would likely appealonlyto a very small audience. Maybe by the time I'm 90 I'll have theexperience and expertise to write it. But some of you seem to havethatalready. How about it, Darryl? Wayne? Chris? Or does this kind ofknowledge come under the heading "proprietary secrets?" from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon Mar 22 10:47:31 1999 This may have been listed eariler, if so I didn't see it and apologize inadvance.There is a new reference published by the Smithsonian on AmericanBamboos includinga section on American woody bamboos, and a section on growing bamboos. findingnew taxa to use for building rods, etc., this one should be right up youralley. from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Mon Mar 22 15:18:26 1999 0500 Subject: Drying rack On the next rod I glue up I would like to avoid as much as possible the straightening process. If I can somehow put the freshly glued rod (after perhaps 8 to 12 hours) in a rack or vice of some sort to force it to be straight and without twists, I think once it completely dries I should be able to avoid most of the straightening with the heat gun. On my first rod I sort of did this using my planing forms and rough form on top, but I need something better. Anyone make something like this? Andy from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Mar 22 15:27:41 1999 (5.5.2407.0) "'andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com'" Subject: RE: Drying rack there's a device in ray goulds book that shows something like that. ----------From: andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com[SMTP:andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com] Sent: Monday, March 22, 1999 7:30 AM Subject: Drying rack On the next rod I glue up I would like to avoid as much as possible the straightening process. If I can somehow put the freshly glued rod (after perhaps 8 to 12 hours) in a rack or vice of some sort to force it to be straight and without twists, I think once it completely dries I should be able to avoid most of the straightening with the heat gun. On my first rod I sort of did this using my planing forms and rough form on top, but I need something better. Anyone make something like this? Andy from jkallo@midwest.net Mon Mar 22 18:11:50 1999 Subject: Nodeless FAQ Hey, does anyone have a copy of Chris Bogart's FAQ on nodeless technique?The version which appears on the Rodmaker's site looks as if it wasscannedin and is missing key words (sentences?). Its kinda like reading a treasuremap which is washed out right around the area where the treasure islocated. I am especially interested in finding out how much longer thanspec the total length of the pre-spliced strips should be in order to takeaccount of the splices. I know that this depends upon the angle at whichthe splices are cut--I intend to use the Garrison splice block which has a4* angle for the slope on which the strip rests ( I guess I could figure itout myself, but I'd still like a complete copy of the file). Thanks all,Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from jfoster@gte.net Mon Mar 22 18:35:23 1999 Subject: Re: Nodeless FAQ mac-creator="4D4F5353" Chris, i don't know if he's flaming you or me? :-) must be a style thing... regards jerry from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Mar 22 20:07:45 1999 out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA68196; Tue, 23 Mar 199902:07:34 GMT "jfoster@gte.net" Subject: Re: Nodeless FAQ Jerry / Joe I have an updated version of the nodeless article as an Acrobatfile. Unfortunately, I am on travel and I do not have it with me. I will bebackin the shop Friday PM. I will post a copy then. Chris On Mon, 22 Mar 1999 16:33:58 -0800, Jerry Foster wrote: Chris, i don't know if he's flaming you or me? :-) must be a style thing... regards jerry from mschaffer@mindspring.com Tue Mar 23 08:32:08 1999 Subject: Lie Nielson-which plane to buy-Help needed I will be sending in an order today for one of the Lie Nielson low angleblock planes.In the catalogue they mention both a 12 1/2 degree and a 20 degree plane.Myquestion is which should I buy? Any help will be greatly appreciated!!! TIA, Mike Doc (Mike Shaffer)(mschaffer@mindspring.com) from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Tue Mar 23 08:48:20 1999 mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net(InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP Subject: Binder in a box I am working on a set of wooden forms. Have Looked at various binderplansand the "Binder in a Box" from the Munro Rod Company looks like areasonable off the shelf binder as opposed to gathering materials andputting one together...has anyone used one of these? Do they work well?Wasn't there some discussion on these some time ago in the context of aGreyrock gathering? Any guidance would be appreciated...TIAMike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from BThoman@neonsoft.com Tue Mar 23 09:01:51 1999 Subject: Tip Tops Does anyone make these? If so, what do you use for the tubing? I can onlyfind stainless steel, brass and aluminum. None of these seem easy toplatewith a liquid plating solution. I'd like to make the tip top and plate itthe same color as the guides which is either english bronze or blackened.If anyone has any ideas I'd be much appreciative. Brian ThomanThe Chattahoochee River Rod CompanyParker, Coloradohttp://www.bambooflyrods.com(303) 805-5733 from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Tue Mar 23 09:14:17 1999 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id JAA22067 for; (8.8.4/8.6.8) with SMTP idJAA07192 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 Subject: Re: Nodeless FAQ I found this out the hard way, now you can find it out the easy way :-) The length of the the strip you "lose" to the splice also depends on the width of the strip. On the rod I'm finishing now, for some reason I split the strips about 1/8 inch wider than usual (I guess I just likeplaning). That made each splice about 1 inch longer than usual, whichin turn made each spliced strip several inches shorter than I planned. With each rod I invent new and fascinating foul-ups. Yesterday, afterclearly marking the rod butt with "T" for Top, I proceeded to mountthe guides 180 degrees off from where they belonged, varnish the wraps,and inked on my signature. How anyone can make and sell a cane rod for less than $5000 is beyond me.........................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Joseph S.Kallo wrote: Hey, does anyone have a copy of Chris Bogart's FAQ on nodelesstechnique?The version which appears on the Rodmaker's site looks as if it wasscannedin and is missing key words (sentences?). Its kinda like reading atreasuremap which is washed out right around the area where the treasure islocated. I am especially interested in finding out how much longer thanspec the total length of the pre-spliced strips should be in order to takeaccount of the splices. I know that this depends upon the angle at whichthe splices are cut--I intend to use the Garrison splice block which has a4* angle for the slope on which the strip rests ( I guess I could figure itout myself, but I'd still like a complete copy of the file). Thanks all,Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Mar 23 11:01:29 1999 Subject: Re: Lie Nielson-which plane to buy-Help needed In the catalogue they mention both a 12 1/2 degree and a 20 degreeplane. Myquestion is which should I buy? Any help will be greatly appreciated!!!TIA, The lower angle tends to produce lifts and chips at the nodes morethan the higher angle, but consider this:The blade can be sharpened at different angles.The angle the front bevel is presented to the cane strip as you areplaning is the same with a 12 1/2 sharpened at 37.5 degree bevelas a 20 sharpened at 30 degrees. Which one should you buy? The one that feels better in you hand,the one you feel you can control better, the one that looks betterto you. As long as you know about adjusting the bevel on the bladedepending on which one you decide to buy there is no good or bad choice. Darryl from jfoster@gte.net Tue Mar 23 11:10:10 1999 Subject: Re: Nodeless FAQ mac-creator="4D4F5353" joe, claude i think i've got it fixed, get it while it's hot jerry from freaner@gte.net Tue Mar 23 12:09:30 1999 Subject: Re: Nodeless FAQ joe, claude i think i've got it fixed, get it while it's hot jerry Thanks, Jerry - much better! Claude from hiltonl@benzie.com Tue Mar 23 22:02:45 1999 (SMTPD32-4.07) id A281360D0124; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 22:56:49 EST Subject: Fly rod identification A friend of mine bought a fly rod at an estate sale and would like toknow more about it. The rod came in a cloth bag. Inside the bag is acylinder with indentations for each of the three sections of the rodplus the second tip. The cylinder is capped on each end with whatappears to be stamped NC caps. The cylinder holding the rod is done inpurple velvet (may be sprayed on flocking, but is in very good conditionwith no apparent ware). The rod itself is nine feet long with arather plain looking reel seat. The logo on the rod is a diamond withina diamond. Around the inside perimeter of the first diamond is themakers name Horrocks-Ibbotson Co. Makers of Fishing Tackle.Within the inside diamond is their location, UTICA N.Y. The apparentname of this particular rod is "Senator " which appears on the flatbelow the maker's logo. Any information, including a ballpark value, would be appreciated.Thanks. Larry from cattanac@wmis.net Tue Mar 23 22:05:54 1999 mail4.wmis.net(8.8.8/SCO5) with SMTP id XAA23550 for ;Tue, 23 Mar 1999 Subject: Proprietary Secrets Revealed Just as the art so is the science - that is - in rod design just as inrod making there are no real secrets. But there are several approaches -intuitive - computer use - which is right - whichever works for theindividual.In general a good understanding of rod design required casting manydifferent rods and then in some fashion comparing them using somemethod.Eventually patterns will develope - and from the understanding one canthenmake theory - not proofs. Theory meaning that there is evidence - proofmeaning unshakable.Being the technical I will give you the graphspeak :-( Bummer -Others will speak with romance calling back on how slope to slope thenumbers change.I will admit to the downfall of not being able to bring it down tosimpler terms - Larry Blan and I have talked for hours and cast countlessrods together. In these conversations there is a common language -graphspeak.You are correct in that there is a small core of serious interest. Manymembers of this list are able to cast a vast selection of rods at the gettogethers and chose among their likings.If you like I will forward a fresher view of thoughts (15 pages) butthey are geared to the technical. Just e-mail me off the list. Also thereare a few sources of taper data bases to mull through this would be a goodstart to do comparisons. But just as it requires planing to make the rods -design requires casting and comparison Good Luck from stpete@netten.net Tue Mar 23 22:36:32 1999 Tue, 23 Mar 1999 22:41:06 -0600 Subject: Re: Binder in a box Michael, Since no one else has answered your question, I will. I own one ofJon's first group of binders. It looks fine and best of all, mine wasvery easily tuned to put out straight sections. If I had to change onething it would be that I would prefer a deeper 'V' in the pulley of themain drive. I have no idea if this is just my way of looking at it, orif it has to do with my drive belt, or if Jon has in fact addressed thisissue - this was, afterall, part of his first attempt. At anyrate, ithasn't worried me enough to get off my duff and change it out (whichwould be very easy to do I might add). I don't know what Jon chargesthese days, but at the time I felt that it was worth every cent just tokeep from running all over town for supplies to build one. (It'd stillbe a bit of an expense just in materials). I happened to have the opportunity to see Harry Boyd's homemade binderthis past weekend. Very simple affair, but effective - AND Harry tellsme it puts out a very straight blank. Couldn't have cost him more than$25 in materials and the get-up-and-go to make one. Good Luck,Rick C. Michael Leitheiser wrote: I am working on a set of wooden forms. Have Looked at various binderplansand the "Binder in a Box" from the Munro Rod Company looks like areasonable off the shelf binder as opposed to gathering materials andputting one together...has anyone used one of these? Do they work well?Wasn't there some discussion on these some time ago in the context of aGreyrock gathering? Any guidance would be appreciated...TIAMike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Mar 24 07:33:17 1999 flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Subject: Storage of varnish and epoxy List,I was working down in my shop this morning and I got to thinking abouthowpeople store their varnish and epoxy. As you all know there are problemswiththese types of materials forming a skin and drying out in the can. A trickIlearned a long time ago is to make sure when you put these products awaythatyou seal the lid real tight and one other trick I have learned from being inthe trades for so long is store these products up side down. This puts theliquid at the lid end and prevents air from infiltrating the can. Also ifthis is something that scares you as to the contents leaking out from nothaving a tight seal there are some great products on the market that helptostop the skinning over. Munro Rod Company carries a product just for thisandit really works great.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Mar 24 07:43:13 1999 flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Subject: Munro Rod Co. Forms, List,I was at the fly fishing show in Detroit ( Southfield) MI. last weekend andhad a chance to check out Jon's new forms. All I can say is "WOW" did theylook nice. The workmanship and the finish on them was incredible. I knowassoon as I can work it into my budget I am going to order a set of these. Ihave seen forms going for a lot more than this that I don't think evencompareto the quality that I saw here. If you are thinking on getting a new set offorms I would suggest checking these out. The usual disclaimer here Ihavenothing to gain from this post.Bret from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed Mar 24 08:53:02 1999 SMTP(Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.3d1); Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:53:17 - 0500 Subject: Lathe Fun! boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE75DD.085409A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE75DD.085409A0 I've got a story...it's sad but true...about a man who didn't know what =to do...(when it came to using a lathe, and the man is myself) =Anyway...I'm delirious and you will understand why in a second. So the =other night I unpack my new Sherline lathe and set it up to turn grips. =Everything looked great! Picked up a 4'4" 4wt and was read to turn. =Unfortunately, the sanding block lodged under the grip...stopping =it...and the chuck kept spinning, thus, the lathe tore the entire rod, =up until the grip, off. Not a bad way to spend an evening. Oh =well...hope this makes everyone feel better and gives you all a good =laugh. Nothing like realizing the slope of my learning curve is now = Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod Company)140 E. Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) 277-4510www.munrorodco.com ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE75DD.085409A0 I've got a story...it's sad but = man who didn't know what to do...(when it came to using a lathe, and the = grip...stopping it...and the chuck kept spinning, thus, the lathe tore = Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod = Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) =277- 4510www.munrorodco.com ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE75DD.085409A0-- from sniderja@email.uc.edu Wed Mar 24 09:19:14 1999 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu,flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Subject: Re: Munro Rod Co. Forms, And how was this "quality" you mentioned determined? By looks? By use?Bychecking the accuracy of the groove? By studying the specs of the metalsinvolved? I certainly don't mean to imply that these aren't excellentforms, likely they are. But isn't this sort of like purchasing a fly rodwithout ever having cast it? J. Snider. At 08:41 AM 3/24/99 EST, Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote:List,I was at the fly fishing show in Detroit ( Southfield) MI. last weekend andhad a chance to check out Jon's new forms. All I can say is "WOW" didtheylook nice. The workmanship and the finish on them was incredible. Iknow assoon as I can work it into my budget I am going to order a set of these. Ihave seen forms going for a lot more than this that I don't think evencompareto the quality that I saw here. If you are thinking on getting a new set offorms I would suggest checking these out. The usual disclaimer here Ihavenothing to gain from this post.Bret from DBURRILL@TELEHUB.com Wed Mar 24 09:44:20 1999 Subject: RE: Munro Rod Co. Forms, I had a phone conversation with Jon a couple weeks ago about his forms. Hisspecifications are very high (write him for all the details),and he actuallydoes have a formal QA process in place to be sure the specs are met. Theyare not cheap, but high quality tools never are. They're on my list of'Things to buy that I can't quite afford'. -----Original Message-----From: Grhghlndr@aol.com [SMTP:Grhghlndr@aol.com]Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 1999 5:41 AM flyh2o@worldnet.att.netCc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Munro Rod Co. Forms, List,I was at the fly fishing show in Detroit ( Southfield) MI. lastweekend andhad a chance to check out Jon's new forms. All I can say is "WOW"did theylook nice. The workmanship and the finish on them was incredible.I know assoon as I can work it into my budget I am going to order a set ofthese. Ihave seen forms going for a lot more than this that I don't thinkeven compareto the quality that I saw here. If you are thinking on getting anew set offorms I would suggest checking these out. The usual disclaimer hereI havenothing to gain from this post.Bret from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed Mar 24 09:48:23 1999 (5.5.2407.0) Subject: stuff The usual disclaimer that I have no interest in the company but am justpassing oninformation. Goldenwitch is now the exclusive distributor, according towhat custom PAC toldme, for small quantities of URAC, Am. Ch. and Resorcinol for rod makers.Custom PAC told methat they are geared for plywood makers and large cabinet shops and not quantities for rodmakers so they have made goldenwitch their distributor. A question for everybody, I understand that SE Supreme makes a good line cant remember the Wulff line for cane rods. Any help would beappreciated. from GeraldB@Pennwell.com Wed Mar 24 13:56:59 1999 (5.5.2448.0) Subject: Forms - get it in writing! OK gang - Please, learn from my mistakes. I told you a couple of weeks ago abouthaving purchased the steel, having a new found friend to mill it all... Igave him a detailed drawing and a blow by blow account of how theprojectshould progress. The resulting forms fit together particularly well, theboring and tapping are great and the action on the shoulder bolts and setscrews are marvelous. Well, that's where the good stuff ended. The mating seam between the steel bars is nice and flush - can't see lightbetween them at all. But lay the bars flat and tightened and there's a topsurface to top surface offset of several hundredths of an inch. Not havingmy precision measuring tools yet I'd suppose it's very close to 3/100's. I made it really clear what these were going to be used for, showed himpictures, gave him a really good run down and agreed on a price.Gentleman'sagreement sort of stuff, you know. Well, now he's saying that what needstohappen is to turn a grinding machine loose on the surfaces. All I can think now is that the price just went through the roof (I don'tyet know what the grinding is going to cost). That, plus the fact I'mworried as hell as to what grinding's going to do to the stressed skin ofthe steel. Am I in trouble now? Did I spend money on a job done 1/2@ssed? Please, ifanyone has suggestions let me know. I really could use the combinedexperience this list is so good at providing those of us in need. Thanks much (in advance), Gerald in Tulsa PS - If you go the route of having someone else do the milling, boring, etal for you be really specific and know ahead of time what your agreementreally is. Write it down and get some buy in, particularly if this issomeone you don't normally work with. from gaff@carol.net Wed Mar 24 15:07:00 1999 0500 Subject: i did something wrong! hey guys,once again i need to impose on your kindness. i am filing the buttsection of my final planing form (crs). the goal was .085 tip and .155butt. i just measured the depth with the dial calipher and found the tipwas .085 (right on target). however, when i checked the butt endi was only at .135, .020 off. if anyone has any suggestion on how i can correct this without starting all over it will probably help me overcomemy self suicidal instinct, and earn my undying gratitude.thanks,wil from GeraldB@Pennwell.com Wed Mar 24 15:54:58 1999 (5.5.2448.0) Subject: Devil's in the [form] details Gosh, the outpouring of consolation! Thanks folks. Truly astounding. A clarification which might skew your sympathy, however. The groovehasn'tbeen cut. I've reserved that chore for myself with the thread cutter jig.So, in effect all I have are six 6' solid bars of steel with tapped boresand offset surfaces of about 3/100's (yes, that's three sets). At least thegroove hadn't been cut. So, it seems my real concern is this: What should/shouldn't I do next? I'mnot real thrilled about removing 3/100's off these three sets due to theamount of warping **potential** I'm facing. Some of you "better advicegivers" have already said draw filing isn't going to affect the bars and isthe route to go. If that's so, then so be it. Others have suggested grindingslowly. Is there a structural difference between these two? I understandgrinding creates a lot of heat and encourages warping. I certainly don'twant to allow the stresses inherent in this steel unleashed. Again, coulduse more opinions please. (And, yes, I do have a new 10 mill bastard filestanding by) from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Mar 24 16:09:27 1999 Subject: Re: RE: Munro Rod Co. Forms, J.Snyder,Yeh I planed out two rods when I was at the show and I measured theforms atever .0001" for accuracy and I also did a Rockwell hardness test on themetaland performed a stress test to check that aspect out too. Now how do you really think I came to my conclusion. I have been buyingnothing but high quality tools all my life and I can usually get a good ideaif they are good or not by looking at them. I can't beleive I quantified yourquestion with a response.BRET from jczimny@dol.net Wed Mar 24 16:38:41 1999 -0500 "'rod'" Subject: RE: Forms - get it in writing! Dear Gerald,You repeat the trope of the new rod maker. When you show one to amachinist (job shop) andyou carefully explain the parameters, you usually get back a "yeh, I can dothat $300". But,when the shop actually encounters the critical tolerances required, itcan't do it. Oftenthey press for tons of additional money to make it right. One wonderswhat type of people doenter this profession. However, I know lots of good one who can make a form. They are lots ofgood shops andmachinists. But a good set of forms are never going to be cheap. Those thatknow how to makethem have paid their dues and know how much time it takes to get themjust right.I suggest that you not try to salvage the forms and walk away.Really good forms are being made by more than a few companies.Generally, they are worth theprice. The good ones are a pleasure to use and give outstanding results.John Z----- Original Message----- Subject: Forms - get it in writing! OK gang - Please, learn from my mistakes. I told you a couple of weeks ago abouthaving purchased the steel, having a new found friend to mill it all... Igave him a detailed drawing and a blow by blow account of how theprojectshould progress. The resulting forms fit together particularly well, theboring and tapping are great and the action on the shoulder bolts and setscrews are marvelous. Well, that's where the good stuff ended. The mating seam between the steel bars is nice and flush - can't see lightbetween them at all. But lay the bars flat and tightened and there's a topsurface to top surface offset of several hundredths of an inch. Not havingmy precision measuring tools yet I'd suppose it's very close to 3/100's. I made it really clear what these were going to be used for, showed himpictures, gave him a really good run down and agreed on a price.Gentleman'sagreement sort of stuff, you know. Well, now he's saying that what needstohappen is to turn a grinding machine loose on the surfaces. All I can think now is that the price just went through the roof (I don'tyet know what the grinding is going to cost). That, plus the fact I'mworried as hell as to what grinding's going to do to the stressed skin ofthe steel. Am I in trouble now? Did I spend money on a job done 1/2@ssed? Please, ifanyone has suggestions let me know. I really could use the combinedexperience this list is so good at providing those of us in need. Thanks much (in advance), Gerald in Tulsa PS - If you go the route of having someone else do the milling, boring, etal for you be really specific and know ahead of time what your agreementreally is. Write it down and get some buy in, particularly if this issomeone you don't normally work with. from cbbghl@tthsc3.lubb.ttuhsc.edu Wed Mar 24 17:10:55 1999 SMTP;Wed, 24 Mar 1999 17:10:38 -0600 Subject: Re: Forms - get it in writing! At 01:55 PM 3/24/99 -0600, Gerald Buckley wrote:OK gang - Please, learn from my mistakes. ...lay the bars flat and tightened and there's a topsurface to top surface offset of several hundredths of an inch. ...now he's saying that what needs tohappen is to turn a grinding machine loose on the surfaces....I'mworried as hell as to what grinding's going to do to the stressed skin ofthe steel. I have not yet built planing forms, but, in general, it is very difficultto drill and tap multiple holes in mating parts and achieve perfectalignment. However, I would have expected the error to be a fewthousandths rather than a few hundredths. Nevertheless, it seems to methat that the best approach would have been to drill and tap the holes,bolt the halves together and mill or grind the tops flat before milling thegroove. As you are apparently already aware, the problem with this isthat, if cold-rolled steel is used, warping resulting from milling thesurface is a virtual certainty. This is why the use of stress- relievedmaterial is a good idea. Your current situation is that levelling thesurface at this point may well cause the forms to warp but will also leaveone leg of the groove shorter than the other, requiring that to be redoneas well. I can think of no painless solution.> from stpete@netten.net Wed Mar 24 17:29:31 1999 Wed, 24 Mar 1999 17:34:10 -0600 Subject: Re: i did something wrong! W.D., If you can open your forms to .250 at the butt, I'd say start makingrods. You can always go back and work off some metal later. Startbuilding!! Come on guys - especially on your homebuilt forms for thebeginners - these are ADJUSTABLE!!!. If you are not selling rods, a few thousands here or there on your firstrods don't make a hill of beans. They're just fishing poles. Measure aHeddon or a Phillipson sometime. I can't speak for the rest, but mostrods vary .003 to .006 at any point from mid to butt. You want to buildrods. Build 'em and quit putting it off over a few thousands onsomething that you can go back and retune anyhow. With all the love in my trout lovin' heart. Rick C. w.d. gatliff wrote: hey guys,once again i need to impose on your kindness. i am filing the buttsection of my final planing form (crs). the goal was .085 tip and .155butt. i just measured the depth with the dial calipher and found the tipwas .085 (right on target). however, when i checked the butt endi was only at .135, .020 off. if anyone has any suggestion on how i cancorrect this without starting all over it will probably help me overcomemy self suicidal instinct, and earn my undying gratitude.thanks,wil from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Mar 24 17:36:33 1999 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1998.03.08.20.27)with SMTP id forRODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, Subject: RE: Forms - get it in writing! "'rod'" Been there, done that. It IS possible to have the top milled down without warpage. The firstmachinist to tackle my forms messed up the groove (of course). Thesecondmachinist was able to mill the surface flat without warping the cold-rolledsteel. The secret, according to machinist number two, is to go slowly, andnot try to take all the steel off at once. The forms with the milled surfacewere perfectly flat. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 1999 6:12 PM Subject: Re: Forms - get it in writing! At 01:55 PM 3/24/99 -0600, Gerald Buckley wrote:OK gang - Please, learn from my mistakes. ...lay the bars flat and tightened and there's a topsurface to top surface offset of several hundredths of an inch....now he's saying that what needs tohappen is to turn a grinding machine loose on the surfaces....I'mworried as hell as to what grinding's going to do to the stressed skin ofthe steel. I have not yet built planing forms, but, in general, it is very difficultto drill and tap multiple holes in mating parts and achieve perfectalignment. However, I would have expected the error to be a fewthousandths rather than a few hundredths. Nevertheless, it seems to methat that the best approach would have been to drill and tap the holes,bolt the halves together and mill or grind the tops flat beforemilling thegroove. As you are apparently already aware, the problem with this isthat, if cold-rolled steel is used, warping resulting from milling thesurface is a virtual certainty. This is why the use of stress- relievedmaterial is a good idea. Your current situation is that levelling thesurface at this point may well cause the forms to warp but will alsoleaveone leg of the groove shorter than the other, requiring that to be redoneas well. I can think of no painless solution.> from cattanac@wmis.net Wed Mar 24 18:34:06 1999 mail4.wmis.net (8.8.8/SCO5)with SMTP id TAA20942 for ; Wed, 24 Mar Subject: Revealing Secrets I have had an overwhelming response to send Graphspeak - I amassemblingthe info into a zip file to save space - there will be a couple of jpgs aswell. I should be sending requests later tonight. Perhaps Jerry can updatethe download that he has with the newer info. I will have it at:cyber.wmis.net/~cattanac/ as well SPEAKING Of JERRY - I for one really appreciate the effort and space thatJerry has provided - I have overheard the yearly cost of the server spacethat he rents for the archives and also know that he dips into his ownpocket for this money. I propose that everyone that shares thisappreciation might stick a buck ($1.00) into the mail to help Jerry out onthe space costs - just a buck from each would go a long ways to coveringhiscosts: Jerry Foster5460 Harrison RoadParadise, CA 95969 Jerry - I apologize for putting you on the spot here but - from hiltonl@benzie.com Wed Mar 24 22:04:14 1999 (SMTPD32-4.07) id A463AD002A; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 22:58:27 EST Subject: Fly rod identification Ray Gould,Thanks very much for the info on the "Senator" rod. I will pass it onto the rod's new owner. Larry Hilton from pmartino@fvcc.cc.mt.us Wed Mar 24 23:15:52 1999 Subject: Help with final planing! Dear list members, I have spent two evenings (~8-12 hrs, until ~2:30 am) with finalplaning of two butt section strips. I thought that this would go fastersince I've previously taken my twelve tip strips down to butt sizedimensions without much precision in about half the time. My hangup ishow much should I trust the forms? Also, when I am close to finalmeasurements and am using a 212 scraper per Cattanach technique, I'mspending a lot of time putting a depression in my water stone. It seemsthat I am removing more metal than cane. The station dimension is stillgreater than it should be (does'nt change- the scraper slides over thearea of bamboo without touching the bamboo) and I'm taking chips from myform, and iron. I am reluctant to place a groove in my 212 and blockplane (at least until I'm done with my first rod). I have thought aboutsliding the section forward a tad to scrape the problematic area, thenmeasuring and returning to the original spot to even out, but thoughtthat if I do this I need to determine my taper at 1" intervals so thatI'm not just correcting the station, but the entire length. Also, Ithought that I may have trouble at the swell area if I slide forwardsince the taper here is not even close to linear. All tips/help is greatly appreciated! Best Regards, Paul MartinoKalispell, MT * from Turbotrk@aol.com Thu Mar 25 03:31:33 1999 Subject: Re: i did something wrong! Way to go Rick. I spent way too many hours contemplating the use, designandfunction of the metal forms. When I got mine built, they fell into thebackground. Now I worry much more about blade sharpness, bindersettings, andwhere I am going to get my next reel seat. The forms are just a small partofthe rod building process. Just go build you a fishing pole and have fun.. stuart miller from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Thu Mar 25 04:07:34 1999 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id WAA19593; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 22:06:01 +1200 Subject: Re: Help with final planing! Paul , Do not get too hung up on the .001 accuracy to start with . My first rodwasa weight six 7'6" fly rod which made an excellent 7'spinning rod as I madeamajor mistake in the dimensions which I found after glueing up . As arelevently recent rodmaker I suggest it is probably more important tomoveon through the steps and get more confident about the process then toworryabout .001" dimensions. I had the same problem early on , the stripdimensions always exceeded the depth gauge dimensions and I solved it bysliding up the form a little and measuring more often . The rods workedfine . It was probably caused by the point being slightly rounded and forthe last two rods I have adopted John's suggestion of allowing .005 andthedimensions have been very close. I think it is possible to get overly concerned as a night time rod maker inthe precision that professionals and experts expect and achieve. My homebuilt rods sometimes do not come out exactly on the taper , but they castwell . I think the variation in the bamboo , and its heat treatment , mayhave a greater affect on the final rod action then minor variances in taper. Just my humble , and inexperienced , opinion. IankAt 10:15 PM 24/03/99 -0800, Paul Martino wrote:Dear list members, I have spent two evenings (~8-12 hrs, until ~2:30 am) with finalplaning of two butt section strips. I thought that this would go fastersince I've previously taken my twelve tip strips down to butt sizedimensions without much precision in about half the time. My hangup ishow much should I trust the forms? Also, when I am close to finalmeasurements and am using a 212 scraper per Cattanach technique, I'mspending a lot of time putting a depression in my water stone. It seemsthat I am removing more metal than cane. The station dimension is stillgreater than it should be (does'nt change- the scraper slides over thearea of bamboo without touching the bamboo) and I'm taking chips frommyform, and iron. I am reluctant to place a groove in my 212 and blockplane (at least until I'm done with my first rod). I have thought aboutsliding the section forward a tad to scrape the problematic area, thenmeasuring and returning to the original spot to even out, but thoughtthat if I do this I need to determine my taper at 1" intervals so thatI'm not just correcting the station, but the entire length. Also, Ithought that I may have trouble at the swell area if I slide forwardsince the taper here is not even close to linear. All tips/help is greatly appreciated! Best Regards, Paul MartinoKalispell, MT * from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Thu Mar 25 08:52:43 1999 SMTP(Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.3d1); Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:53:07 - 0500 Subject: Re: Help with final planing! When I had a not so nice set of forms this is what I did. First, Isharpened a lot...hate to say it, but part of the shallow learning curve.Second, I set my forms and took the first strip down to the metal. With asharp blade and a very light cut, you plane should be able to slide down thelength without lodging in the metal. Next I would measure my strip ateverysection. Whenever there was a difference I would adjust the forms at thatstation and plane to the metal again. If I was trying to hit .250 and itwas reading .256, I would set the forms to .244 and make a note of it.Personally, I found this method to be very easy and consistent. Once I hada strip to the size I thought was close enough, I would plane every other tothe metal without measuring and be done with it. Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod Company)140 E. Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) 277-4510www.munrorodco.com-----Original Message----- Subject: Help with final planing! Dear list members, I have spent two evenings (~8-12 hrs, until ~2:30 am) with finalplaning of two butt section strips. I thought that this would go fastersince I've previously taken my twelve tip strips down to butt sizedimensions without much precision in about half the time. My hangup ishow much should I trust the forms? Also, when I am close to finalmeasurements and am using a 212 scraper per Cattanach technique, I'mspending a lot of time putting a depression in my water stone. It seemsthat I am removing more metal than cane. The station dimension is stillgreater than it should be (does'nt change- the scraper slides over thearea of bamboo without touching the bamboo) and I'm taking chips frommyform, and iron. I am reluctant to place a groove in my 212 and blockplane (at least until I'm done with my first rod). I have thought aboutsliding the section forward a tad to scrape the problematic area, thenmeasuring and returning to the original spot to even out, but thoughtthat if I do this I need to determine my taper at 1" intervals so thatI'm not just correcting the station, but the entire length. Also, Ithought that I may have trouble at the swell area if I slide forwardsince the taper here is not even close to linear. All tips/help is greatly appreciated! Best Regards, Paul MartinoKalispell, MT * from HARMS1@prodigy.net Thu Mar 25 09:01:11 1999 Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:59:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Help with final planing! =_NextPart_000_01BE76A5.F2CDAF40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE76A5.F2CDAF40 Paul, It's difficult to say, without being there to watch what is happening. First, let me say that, yes, you ought to be able to trust that yourplaning form will produce almost exactly what you have "dialed-in." But, your irons -- or sharpening them to a proper angle. Learning propersharpening techniques is a special area, with its own "learning curve" andspecial considerations. If you're doing it properly, there should not beany noticeable wearing-down of the stones until after many rods havebeenbuilt. A second possibility may be that the sole of your plane(s) may not beabsolutely flat. Usually, the sole of any plane needs to be "dressed" forour purposes, and this means slowly working that surface across a pieceofglass (or some other absolutely flat surface) upon which wet-or- drysandpaper has been laid. Begin with 220 grit lubricated with somemineralspirits, and work your way down to 400, 600 and then to something asfineas 1200 or 1500. Valve-grinding compound for the final stages alsoworksfine. A beautiful, mirror surface that is dead flat is your objective. (Your stones would be super-efficient in this operation, but they will notproduce the desired flatness because, very likely, they are not themselvesdead flat to begin with.) And the third possibility may be that the surface of your forms may not beexactly flat across the two bars. This could cause the edge of your ironsto slide over the top of the cane -- never quite touching the surface youintend to make level with the top edges of the groove. You can check thiswith the edge of a truly straight piece of metal like your 60 degreecenter-gauge. Lift your planing forms up by one end and sight down thegroove into a source of light, as if you were sighting down the rib of ashotgun barrel. Then, with a free hand, hold the edge of your center- gaugeperpendicular (and at a right angle) to the surface of the forms and runthat edge slowly down the length. You are looking for any light that may"escape" between the surface of the forms and the edge of thecenter- gauge. There should be none. You ought to be able to trust that when you are planing a strip, it willultimately lie perfectly within the groove, with its exposed, top surfaceabsolutely flush with the surface of the form itself. If you are not ableto obtain this result in your final planing, I can't think of anything thatcould be the problem other than: 1) an untrue surface on the sole of yourplane; 2) an untrue surface across the top of your forms, or; 3) impropersharpening technique. Cheers, Bill ----------From: Paul Martino Subject: Help with final planing!Date: Wednesday, March 24, 1999 10:15 PM Dear list members, I have spent two evenings (~8-12 hrs, until ~2:30 am) with finalplaning of two butt section strips. I thought that this would go fastersince I've previously taken my twelve tip strips down to butt sizedimensions without much precision in about half the time. My hangup ishow much should I trust the forms? Also, when I am close to finalmeasurements and am using a 212 scraper per Cattanach technique, I'mspending a lot of time putting a depression in my water stone. It seemsthat I am removing more metal than cane. The station dimension is stillgreater than it should be (does'nt change- the scraper slides over thearea of bamboo without touching the bamboo) and I'm taking chips frommyform, and iron. I am reluctant to place a groove in my 212 and blockplane (at least until I'm done with my first rod). I have thought aboutsliding the section forward a tad to scrape the problematic area, thenmeasuring and returning to the original spot to even out, but thoughtthat if I do this I need to determine my taper at 1" intervals so thatI'm not just correcting the station, but the entire length. Also, Ithought that I may have trouble at the swell area if I slide forwardsince the taper here is not even close to linear. All tips/help is greatly appreciated! Best Regards, Paul MartinoKalispell, MT *------=_NextPart_000_01BE76A5.F2CDAF40 Paul,It's difficult = me say that, yes, you ought to be able to trust that your planing form =will produce almost exactly what you have "dialed-in." = having problems sharpening your irons -- or sharpening them to a proper = any noticeable wearing-down of the stones until after many rods have =been built.A second possibility may be that the sole of your = means slowly working that surface across a piece of glass (or some other=absolutely flat surface) upon which wet-or-dry sandpaper has been laid. = = = operation, but they will not produce the desired flatness because, very =likely, they are not themselves dead flat to begin with.)And the =third possibility may be that the surface of your forms may not be = your irons to slide over the top of the cane -- never quite touching the =surface you intend to make level with the top edges of the groove. You =can check this with the edge of a truly straight piece of metal like = one end and sight down the groove into a source of light, as if you were = hold the edge of your center-gauge perpendicular (and at a right angle) =to the surface of the forms and run that edge slowly down the length. = = when you are planing a strip, it will ultimately lie perfectly within =the groove, with its exposed, top surface absolutely flush with the = result in your final planing, I can't think of anything that could be = = bamboo without touching the bamboo) and I'm taking chips from thought that I may have trouble at the swell area if I slide = ------=_NextPart_000_01BE76A5.F2CDAF40-- from mschaffer@mindspring.com Thu Mar 25 09:11:48 1999 Subject: Plane blade sharpening guide Guys,When I ordered my plane and wet stones I fogot to get a sharpening guideforthe blades, duh!In the catalogue I have they offer a veritas sharpening guide and anglesetting jig. The jig is graduated at 15, 20, 25, 30, and 35 degrees.Has anyone used this guide before, and is it worth getting or is it justbells and whistles? TIA, Mike Doc (Mike Shaffer)(mschaffer@mindspring.com) from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Thu Mar 25 10:08:07 1999 0500 Subject: Help with final planing ...in addition to what has already been said...what about having the plane blade positioned precisely level within the plane itself. If one side is sticking out further than the other it could cause problems (I think it will catch the metal on that side). Also, if the form is already chewed up, some evening out/flattening might be necessary or you will keep hitting protuberances and dulling your blade and affecting your stroke... Andy p.s. I have only done one rod so take this with that understanding from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Mar 25 10:59:37 1999 Subject: Re: Plane blade sharpening guide In the catalogue I have they offer a veritas sharpening guide and anglesetting jig. The jig is graduated at 15, 20, 25, 30, and 35 degrees.Has anyone used this guide before, and is it worth getting or is it justbells and whistles? TIA, I've got both types, the Veritas and the type that clamps to the sidesof the blade. The angle jig for the Veritas is marginally useful unlessyou have other tools like chisels that need to be shapened at differentangles. A much easier and cheaper jig is explained in Wayne's book on page 27. He calls it a stop block. For planing cane you probably won't use any angle less than 30 degrees. The reason I got the Veritasis because it's the only one that allows me to sharpen my Lie-Nielsen scraper blade at 60 degrees. Darryl from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Mar 25 11:08:00 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Thu, 25 Mar 1999 11:07:28 -0600 Subject: Re: Plane blade sharpening guide Doc,Don't bother with the blade setting jig. It simply is not reliable enough just for the cost of postage. BTW, I have both Veritas and Generalsharpeningguides. Of the two, I like the Veritas best. I also like the looks of thethird guide Lea Valley offers. I think it's a Stanley jig. Just my opinions,no financial interest, etc.Harry"michael w. shaffer" wrote: Guys,In the catalogue I have they offer a veritas sharpening guide and anglesetting jig. The jig is graduated at 15, 20, 25, 30, and 35 degrees.Has anyone used this guide before, and is it worth getting or is it justbells and whistles? TIA, Mike Doc (Mike Shaffer)(mschaffer@mindspring.com) from jackdale@uswest.net Thu Mar 25 14:09:24 1999 (209.180.248.167) Subject: [Fwd: Fwd: Be Careful] 49E6FAAF5F50263D2487D487" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 49E6FAAF5F50263D2487D487 Sorry about the SPAM, but I thought you might want to know about thislittle scam. --------------49E6FAAF5F50263D2487D487 (207.82.63.58) Subject: Fwd: Be Careful Message from a friend. I received a telephone call today (at home) from an individual himself as an AT&T Service Technician who was conducting a test on ourtelephone lines. He stated that to complete the test I should touch nine(9), zero (0), the pound sign (#) and then hang up. I was suspicious andrefused. Upon contacting the telephone company, I was informed that by pushing90#,you give the requesting individual full access to your telephone line,whichallows them to place long distance telephone calls billed to your homephonenumber. I was further informed that this scam has been originatingfrommanyof the local jails/prisons. I have also verified this information withSouthern Bell, MCI and GTE. Please beware. DO NOT press 90# for ANYONE. The GTE SecurityDepartmentrequested that I share this information with others. PLEASE pass this Ontoeveryone you know. If you have mailing lists and/or newsletters fromorganizations you are connected with, I encourage you to pass on thisinformation to them, too. Alan D. MutterPresident and CEOInstantObjects651 Brannan, Suite 300San Francisco, CA 94107-1511Voice: 415.659.6319Fax: 415.284.5313E- mail: amutter@instantobjects.comWeb: www.InstantObjects.com --------------49E6FAAF5F50263D2487D487-- from arnold.jl@pg.com Thu Mar 25 17:47:16 1999 [192.44.184.129] 1998)) id8525673F.00829506 ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 18:46:18 -0500 Subject: RE: Munro Rod Co. Forms, Bret, I was at the show in Southfield also, but I don't recall seeing Jon'sforms. Who had them on display? Was it in Ron Barch's area? from maxs@geocities.co.jp Thu Mar 25 18:21:08 1999 bysv01.geocities.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W) with ESMTP id JAA14894; Fri, 26Mar 1999 09:21:04+0900 (JST) mail.geocities.co.jp (1.3G-8.9.3/GeocitiesJ-3.1) with ESMTP id JAA24256;Fri, 26 Mar 199909:21:03 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Help with final planing Hi, To avoid the edges of a blade to catch the surface of the form, try tofile off both corners of the blade by a grinder before you hone it, about 1/4 inches. Angle?what ever but may be 45 degrees. Max andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com wrote: ...in addition to what has already been said...what about having theplane blade positioned precisely level within the plane itself. If oneside is sticking out further than the other it could cause problems (Ithink it will catch the metal on that side). Also, if the form isalready chewed up, some evening out/flattening might be necessaryoryou will keep hitting protuberances and dulling your blade andaffecting your stroke... Andy p.s. I have only done one rod so take this with that understanding -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod from stpete@netten.net Thu Mar 25 18:27:27 1999 Subject: Calibration of Depth Gauge Chris Bogart, Thank you, thank you, thank you. I just reviewed your calibrationarticle. It is a MUST READ for all rodmakers - especially beginners. Ibought a 60* calibration block, but it is nice to be able to CONFIRMwhat the gauge is supposed to read. The gauge block is still a timesaver since once I guarantee the standard, I'll have no more calculatingto do. And those of you who have the chamfered hole calibration bars,you can now find the standard depth of the holes and you have a reliableand usable block. Once again, the list justifies its existance! Rick (looking forward to the day I can contribute) Crenshaw from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Mar 25 19:47:33 1999 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1998.03.08.20.27)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, Subject: RE: Calibration of Depth Gauge I second Rick's praise. That article is great. I've printed it up and tapedit to my workshop wall. Many thanks, Chris. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, March 25, 1999 7:26 PM Subject: Calibration of Depth Gauge Chris Bogart, Thank you, thank you, thank you. I just reviewed your calibrationarticle. It is a MUST READ for all rodmakers - especially beginners. Ibought a 60* calibration block, but it is nice to be able to CONFIRMwhat the gauge is supposed to read. The gauge block is still a timesaver since once I guarantee the standard, I'll have no more calculatingto do. And those of you who have the chamfered hole calibration bars,you can now find the standard depth of the holes and you have a reliableand usable block. Once again, the list justifies its existance! Rick (looking forward to the day I can contribute) Crenshaw from Craig.Naldrett@ibm.net Thu Mar 25 19:55:56 1999 (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA40126 for; Fri, 26 Mar 199901:55:12 GMT Subject: Stanley # 12 Scraper I can't find any info in local catalogues on this plane, one for salelocally for 75 CDN, is it worth while looking at ? from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Thu Mar 25 23:00:08 1999 mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net(InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP Subject: Angle Start Form Gentlemen:I think I have a fairly good idea of how to go about getting a finalplaning form up and running, but I am a little confused on "roughing" forms. In Cattanachs book he uses a 30* and a 52.5* angle in the form he uses to""square up" the strips before he goes on to another form to put theinitial untapered 60* angle on the strips. I think I understand how to use the 60* tool to get the goove in the finalplaning form, but how in the devil to you get the angles in the roughingform? Also, Cattanachs choice of angles for the "squaring up form" arebased on the fact that he normally gets 24 strips from a culm...is thisrealistic for a first timer?Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from stpete@netten.net Fri Mar 26 00:10:37 1999 Fri, 26 Mar 1999 00:15:12 -0600 Subject: Re: Angle Start Form Mike, Take two 4' x 1"x2" maple, oak or tight grained wood boards. Set atable saw up to 60* angle. Using a scrap board, set the board up as anadjustable fence where the blade is leaning into the fence so that onlya small portion of the blade is exposed. Now adjust the fence so thatif you run the 1x2 down the fence, a 30* angle about 3/16" deep is cut.Do that to the top AND bottom of ONE board as shown in fig a : (hopethis comes out right)___ ___ ___fig a. | \ fig b. | \/ || | | | || | | |\ ||___/ |___/ \_| Now run ONE side of the the other board the same way, but LAY THE BOARDFLAT for the other cut (it'll give you 60* cut) and ADJUST THE FENCE forthe same 3/16" depth. Put them together as in fig b. and you shouldhave a 4' roughing form with a 3/16" 60* groove on one side and a 3/16"90* groove on the other. My Humble Opinion is that the 90 works justabout as well as the 82.5* angle especially if you can't splitperfectly. I've gotten to the 60* utapered rough strips just using myplaning form before. It takes more time and is a little trickier but itcan be done. I know I've been advocating looser tolerances here lately, but I findmyself being a little evangelical about getting beginners to just getstarted on doing some actual planing. It's damn easy to get caught upin the tool making and never get to the rod making. I personally knowof several beginners who started out making tools and forms and after ayear has passed have still not planed a lick - heck, I don't think theyever split a culm. Now they're selling their stuff before ever givingrod building a shot! Perhaps you new guys should get George Barnes' book,"Bamboo Rod Making".I have read it. It seems George built several nice rods withNON-ADJUSTABLE forms! made on a table saw nonetheless! forget a millingmachine!, bound the rods by hand, straightened the nodes by alcohollamp, heat treated by a propane torch with a section of steel pipe, andbrushed the varnish on. The combined tools probably could by had for agrand total of $100 bucks in today's dollars. +/- 0.001" t is a GOAL -NOT a requirement for a fine rod. The 18" cutthroat on my very imperfect Payne 101 taper didn't ask me ifthe rod "mic'd" out to within the List's standards. It was my fourthrod. My fourteenth rod might, but I ain't waiting to have fun tillthen. Rick C. Michael Leitheiser wrote: Gentlemen:I think I have a fairly good idea of how to go about getting a finalplaning form up and running, but I am a little confused on "roughing"forms. In Cattanachs book he uses a 30* and a 52.5* angle in the form he usesto""square up" the strips before he goes on to another form to put theinitial untapered 60* angle on the strips. I think I understand how to use the 60* tool to get the goove in the finalplaning form, but how in the devil to you get the angles in the roughingform? Also, Cattanachs choice of angles for the "squaring up form" arebased on the fact that he normally gets 24 strips from a culm...is thisrealistic for a first timer?Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from jkallo@midwest.net Fri Mar 26 07:42:40 1999 Subject: Re: Angle Start Form Rick et. al., At the risk of making this sound like a forum for slacker rod makers, Irecently decided to make a rod without spending a whole lot of time tryingto get perfect angles and a perfect taper match. Contrary to my usualpractice of going no more than five minutes without mic'ing angles Idecided to get the initial angles pretty good and simply plane to the formswithout using my calipers again. I though for sure I'd end up with a mess.What I did end up with was a nice rod whose specs are pretty good--justabout as good as when I spent lots of time worrying about it. Mostimportantly I found that getting 'in the planning groove' is an integralpart of making good strips, and that I'd been missing this part incontinually worrying about specs. It seems when I stopped worrying aboutthem, they took care of themselves--something Dewey would no doubthavesomething to say about. I've been having lots more fun making rods sincefiguring this out. Best,Joe At 12:09 AM 3/26/99 -0600, you wrote:Mike, Take two 4' x 1"x2" maple, oak or tight grained wood boards. Set atable saw up to 60* angle. Using a scrap board, set the board up as anadjustable fence where the blade is leaning into the fence so that onlya small portion of the blade is exposed. Now adjust the fence so thatif you run the 1x2 down the fence, a 30* angle about 3/16" deep is cut.Do that to the top AND bottom of ONE board as shown in fig a : (hopethis comes out right)___ ___ ___fig a. | \ fig b. | \/ || | | | || | | |\ ||___/ |___/ \_| Now run ONE side of the the other board the same way, but LAY THEBOARDFLAT for the other cut (it'll give you 60* cut) and ADJUST THE FENCE forthe same 3/16" depth. Put them together as in fig b. and you shouldhave a 4' roughing form with a 3/16" 60* groove on one side and a 3/16"90* groove on the other. My Humble Opinion is that the 90 works justabout as well as the 82.5* angle especially if you can't splitperfectly. I've gotten to the 60* utapered rough strips just using myplaning form before. It takes more time and is a little trickier but itcan be done. I know I've been advocating looser tolerances here lately, but I findmyself being a little evangelical about getting beginners to just getstarted on doing some actual planing. It's damn easy to get caught upin the tool making and never get to the rod making. I personally knowof several beginners who started out making tools and forms and after ayear has passed have still not planed a lick - heck, I don't think theyever split a culm. Now they're selling their stuff before ever givingrod building a shot! Perhaps you new guys should get George Barnes' book,"Bamboo RodMaking".I have read it. It seems George built several nice rods withNON-ADJUSTABLE forms! made on a table saw nonetheless! forget amillingmachine!, bound the rods by hand, straightened the nodes by alcohollamp, heat treated by a propane torch with a section of steel pipe, andbrushed the varnish on. The combined tools probably could by had for agrand total of $100 bucks in today's dollars. +/- 0.001" t is a GOAL -NOT a requirement for a fine rod. The 18" cutthroat on my very imperfect Payne 101 taper didn't ask me ifthe rod "mic'd" out to within the List's standards. It was my fourthrod. My fourteenth rod might, but I ain't waiting to have fun tillthen. Rick C. Michael Leitheiser wrote: Gentlemen:I think I have a fairly good idea of how to go about getting a finalplaning form up and running, but I am a little confused on "roughing"forms. In Cattanachs book he uses a 30* and a 52.5* angle in the form he usesto""square up" the strips before he goes on to another form to put theinitial untapered 60* angle on the strips. I think I understand how to use the 60* tool to get the goove in the finalplaning form, but how in the devil to you get the angles in the roughingform? Also, Cattanachs choice of angles for the "squaring up form" arebased on the fact that he normally gets 24 strips from a culm...is thisrealistic for a first timer?Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri Mar 26 08:10:40 1999 GAA07474; (5.5.2407.0) "'richard.nantel@videotron.ca'" Subject: RE: Calibration of Depth Gauge where can I find the article ----------From: Richard Nantel[SMTP:richard.nantel@videotron.ca] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 1999 5:48 PM Subject: RE: Calibration of Depth Gauge I second Rick's praise. That article is great. I've printed it up and tapedit to my workshop wall. Many thanks, Chris. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu CrenshawSent: Thursday, March 25, 1999 7:26 PM Subject: Calibration of Depth Gauge Chris Bogart, Thank you, thank you, thank you. I just reviewed your calibrationarticle. It is a MUST READ for all rodmakers - especially beginners. Ibought a 60* calibration block, but it is nice to be able to CONFIRMwhat the gauge is supposed to read. The gauge block is still a timesaver since once I guarantee the standard, I'll have no more calculatingto do. And those of you who have the chamfered hole calibration bars,you can now find the standard depth of the holes and you have a reliableand usable block. Once again, the list justifies its existance! Rick (looking forward to the day I can contribute) Crenshaw from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Mar 26 08:19:46 1999 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1998.03.08.20.27)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, Subject: RE: Calibration of Depth Gauge Rodmakers Listproc Hi Pat, http://www.shentel.net/canerod/HTML/ClassIndex.html It's the first link at the top of the page. Richard -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, March 26, 1999 9:11 AM Subject: RE: Calibration of Depth Gauge where can I find the article ----------From: Richard Nantel[SMTP:richard.nantel@videotron.ca] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 1999 5:48 PM Subject: RE: Calibration of Depth Gauge I second Rick's praise. That article is great. I've printed itup and tapedit to my workshop wall. Many thanks, Chris. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu CrenshawSent: Thursday, March 25, 1999 7:26 PM Subject: Calibration of Depth Gauge Chris Bogart, Thank you, thank you, thank you. I just reviewed your calibrationarticle. It is a MUST READ for all rodmakers - especiallybeginners. Ibought a 60* calibration block, but it is nice to be able to CONFIRMwhat the gauge is supposed to read. The gauge block is still a timesaver since once I guarantee the standard, I'll have no morecalculatingto do. And those of you who have the chamfered hole calibration bars,you can now find the standard depth of the holes and you havea reliableand usable block. Once again, the list justifies its existance! Rick (looking forward to the day I can contribute) Crenshaw from sniderja@email.uc.edu Fri Mar 26 08:38:33 1999 Subject: RE: Munro Rod Co. Forms, Thanks for the quick response. I will order two of the forms right away-- apenta and a quad to go with my Wagner hexa form. Appreciate the input!J. Snider. At 05:08 PM 3/24/99 EST, Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote:J.Snyder,Yeh I planed out two rods when I was at the show and I measured theforms atever .0001" for accuracy and I also did a Rockwell hardness test on themetaland performed a stress test to check that aspect out too. Now how do you really think I came to my conclusion. I have been buyingnothing but high quality tools all my life and I can usually get a good ideaif they are good or not by looking at them. I can't beleive I quantifiedyourquestion with a response.BRET from plantboy@siu.edu Fri Mar 26 09:16:12 1999 Subject: Cork ring adhesion Gents, I was hoping to extract some thoughts on what types of glue you use inbonding your cork rings together for the grips. I'm going to finish- upbuilding my TSmithwick 5'6'' this weekend and was hoping to finish thegripthis evening.I was planing on either using some Titebond II or Devcon 2 ton epoxy. I'm abit wary of using the epoxy as I thought it might not sand well or that itwould be to ridged, not allowing the handle to flex and eventually crack.So any thoughts on that would be greatly appreciated. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eric AdamsDept. of Plant BiologySIUCCarbondale, IL 62901 from harry37@epix.net Fri Mar 26 10:24:08 1999 SMTP id LAA26321; Subject: Re: Cork ring adhesion Eric Adams wrote: Gents, I was hoping to extract some thoughts on what types of glue you use inbonding your cork rings together for the grips. I'm going to finish- upbuilding my TSmithwick 5'6'' this weekend and was hoping to finish thegripthis evening.I was planing on either using some Titebond II or Devcon 2 ton epoxy. I'mabit wary of using the epoxy as I thought it might not sand well or that itwould be to ridged, not allowing the handle to flex and eventually crack.So any thoughts on that would be greatly appreciated. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eric AdamsDept. of Plant BiologySIUCCarbondale, IL 62901 Eric, I've used Devcon 2 ton GEL---it starts out as a blue/clear, and endscream colored--because it's a gel, it's a little more flexible, and itsands well--no failures yet, but the rods haven't been fished hard my $.02 Greg Kuntz from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Mar 26 11:45:01 1999 Subject: Whacking to Straighten I'm always one to try new techniques, so I gave thewhacking the rod on a flat surface to straighten a try.It does work well on 6 sided blanks, but I could notget it to work on 5 sided or 4 sided blanks. I can'timagine why it would be any different on a 5 or 4 sided blank. I use fishing monofilament to bind my rods for glue up,it's cheap, readily available, comes in different diameters- light for tip sections, heavier for butt sections. It's alsoeasier to see kinks and twists because it is clear. On the penta blank I whacked it so much and so hard trying to straighten it that I wore through the 10 lb testmono and had to re-bind it. The quad wouldn't straighteneither, but I stopped and straightened normally beforethe mono broke. from now on I'm going to combine two techniques:Binding over the tape and whacking the blank on aflat surface. Darryl from brookie@frii.com Fri Mar 26 11:53:39 1999 Subject: Need to contact Mike Sinclair, in Colorado hello to the rodmakers list, I'm hoping someone can give me Mike's phone number, and/or email, andevenwebsite ( if he has one ) . He's local to me and I have a repair job on afavorite cane I need done. The rod you ask ? *G* Made in 70's I believe, a 6'6" Cliff Constable (Brit), 3 wt. I know you all will appreciate it when I say this, but Ihave finally fallen completely in love with the cane ! It's my favoritefishing rod of all times ! And what befell the rod that I need a repair ? the male ferrule on topsection got 'stuck' in the bottom section and the rod came out of theferrule. I need the ferrule correctly and carefully removed and the topsection reglued into the ferrule. Of course *VBG*, I need it done ASAP ! You can send me a private email to the address above,thanks in advance,SUEColorado from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Mar 26 11:55:34 1999 Subject: Re: Angle Start Form My roughing form is a 1" x 6" hardwood board with a shallow anddeep 90 degree slot routed on one side, and a shallow and deep60 degree slot routed on the other side. I use the 90 degree slot to just take off the sharp corners on thepith side of a rough strip, then flip the board over and get the 60degree cross section. If I was going to make another roughing board, I would put twoshallow grooves on one side of the board, one 90 degrees andone 60 degrees. One the other side, I would cut the two deepgrooves, one 90 degrees and one 60 degrees. That would saveme from having to flip the board over. The 90 degree slot is close enough to the recommended 82.5degrees that it doesn't matter at all. Darryl from DBURRILL@TELEHUB.com Fri Mar 26 12:03:02 1999 Subject: RE: Need to contact Mike Sinclair, in Colorado Caneclinic@aol.com . Michael is now inPaducahKY. -----Original Message-----From: Sue Kreutzer [SMTP:brookie@frii.com]Sent: Friday, March 26, 1999 9:53 AM Subject: Need to contact Mike Sinclair, in Colorado hello to the rodmakers list, I'm hoping someone can give me Mike's phone number, and/or email,and evenwebsite ( if he has one ) . He's local to me and I have a repairjob on afavorite cane I need done. The rod you ask ? *G* Made in 70's I believe, a 6'6" CliffConstable (Brit), 3 wt. I know you all will appreciate it when I say this,but Ihave finally fallen completely in love with the cane ! It's myfavoritefishing rod of all times ! And what befell the rod that I need a repair ? the male ferrule ontopsection got 'stuck' in the bottom section and the rod came out oftheferrule. I need the ferrule correctly and carefully removed andthe topsection reglued into the ferrule. Of course *VBG*, I need itdone ASAP ! You can send me a private email to the address above,thanks in advance,SUEColorado from dmanders@telusplanet.net Fri Mar 26 12:07:16 1999 don") byedtnps05.telusplanet.net with SMTP id ; Fri, 26 Mar1999 11:07:04 - 0700 Subject: Re: Whacking to Straighten Darryl, Not a new technique - been using the whacking thing for about 10 years.Works on 6 strippers just fine. Happy you find it worked for you on the6er's. Don At 12:39 PM 3/26/99 EST, SalarFly@aol.com wrote: I'm always one to try new techniques, so I gave thewhacking the rod on a flat surface to straighten a try.It does work well on 6 sided blanks, but I could notget it to work on 5 sided or 4 sided blanks. I can'timagine why it would be any different on a 5 or 4 sided blank. I use fishing monofilament to bind my rods for glue up,it's cheap, readily available, comes in different diameters- light for tip sections, heavier for butt sections. It's alsoeasier to see kinks and twists because it is clear. On the penta blank I whacked it so much and so hard trying to straighten it that I wore through the 10 lb testmono and had to re-bind it. The quad wouldn't straighteneither, but I stopped and straightened normally beforethe mono broke. from now on I'm going to combine two techniques:Binding over the tape and whacking the blank on aflat surface. Darryl from dmanders@telusplanet.net Fri Mar 26 12:07:24 1999 don") byedtnps05.telusplanet.net with SMTP id ; Fri, 26 Mar1999 11:07:01 - 0700 Subject: Re: Cork ring adhesion Eric, What I've found is that epoxy will not compress the same as the canearoundit. Have a rod that I've used a lot and have had to sand down the cork ringjoints a couple of times over the past 10 years. Use Titebond not epoxy. Don At 09:18 AM 3/26/99 -0800, Eric Adams wrote:Gents, I was hoping to extract some thoughts on what types of glue you use inbonding your cork rings together for the grips. I'm going to finish- upbuilding my TSmithwick 5'6'' this weekend and was hoping to finish thegripthis evening.I was planing on either using some Titebond II or Devcon 2 ton epoxy. I'mabit wary of using the epoxy as I thought it might not sand well or that itwould be to ridged, not allowing the handle to flex and eventually crack.So any thoughts on that would be greatly appreciated. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eric AdamsDept. of Plant BiologySIUCCarbondale, IL 62901 from dmanders@telusplanet.net Fri Mar 26 12:10:25 1999 don") byedtnps05.telusplanet.net with SMTP id ; Fri, 26 Mar 199911:10:11 - 0700 Subject: Re: Angle Start Form - why bother Guys, Read about this angle starting board thing and wonder why you bother - justuse a sharp knife to get the strips in about a 60 degree angle and getafter the planning. Use your screw gauge to make sure the strip doesconform to 60 degrees. Saves a lot of work that a sharp knife does inseconds. Don from brookie@frii.com Fri Mar 26 12:19:49 1999 Subject: Colorado cane repairer ? Well thanks to the marvels of listservs, I have heard that Mike Sinclair isno longer local to me in Colorado. Now my dilemma is, do you all know ofother cane rod repairers in Colorado that I could contact ? And what befell the rod that I need a repair ? the male ferrule ontop section got 'stuck' in the bottom section and the rod came out of the ferrule. I need the ferrule removed and the top section reglued into the ferrule. If I can't find local, will need to ship the cane, and this of course isunsettling thought, to have it leave my state. thanks,SUE from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Fri Mar 26 13:09:57 1999 Subject: Re: Colorado cane repairer ? C.W. Jenkins, AuroraH.L. Jennings, CO SpringsScott is in Telluride but I doubt Wojnicki would do it, Hardy is Evergreen. I can call Hardy and ask them to take care of it for you if you like.It is a British rod ya know! Regards, Bob On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, Sue Kreutzer wrote: Well thanks to the marvels of listservs, I have heard that Mike Sinclairisno longer local to me in Colorado. Now my dilemma is, do you all knowofother cane rod repairers in Colorado that I could contact ? And what befell the rod that I need a repair ? the male ferrule ontop section got 'stuck' in the bottom section and the rod came out of the ferrule. I need the ferrule removed and the top section reglued into the ferrule. If I can't find local, will need to ship the cane, and this of course isunsettling thought, to have it leave my state. thanks,SUE from pmartino@fvcc.cc.mt.us Fri Mar 26 13:50:25 1999 Subject: Re: Help with final planing- Thanks Dear members, Thanks for all your insight to my problem and the good tips. I will certainly try several out... Bill Harris was right on the money. I checked my iron, and the bevel was way off the perpendicular. I held a builders square up against the iron and it was off ~1/32". I'm surprised that I didn't ruin my 60-degree angles- they checked out ok. I got myself into trouble with the iron by changing the angle thatit came with to the same angle as my Stanely 9.5 iron. Wayne C.(video) suggested this modification so as to have only onesharpening regimen. I guess that I should have been more precise(but I had to remove a hellofalot of metal with a rough stone). Lately, I spend more time sharpening and working with irons than planing.... I think that I might try Max Satoh's suggestion later tonight. Many thanks and best regards, Paul MartinoKalispell, MT from HARMS1@prodigy.net Fri Mar 26 14:52:55 1999 Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:52:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Cork ring adhesion =_NextPart_000_01BE77A0.6D258240" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE77A0.6D258240 Stick with the Titebond II for the cork rings. It's particularly easy toclean up with water, and the glue sands about as well as the cork itselfwhen turning the grip. Also, the glue is invisible and dries very quickly. Cheers, Bill ----------From: Eric Adams Subject: Cork ring adhesionDate: Friday, March 26, 1999 9:18 AM Gents, I was hoping to extract some thoughts on what types of glue you use inbonding your cork rings together for the grips. I'm going to finish- upbuilding my TSmithwick 5'6'' this weekend and was hoping to finish thegripthis evening.I was planing on either using some Titebond II or Devcon 2 ton epoxy. I'm abit wary of using the epoxy as I thought it might not sand well or thatitwould be to ridged, not allowing the handle to flex and eventually crack.So any thoughts on that would be greatly appreciated. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Eric AdamsDept. of Plant BiologySIUCCarbondale, IL 62901 ------=_NextPart_000_01BE77A0.6D258240 Stick with the Titebond II = and the glue sands about as well as the cork itself when turning the = = I was hoping to extract some thoughts on what types of glue you use = = planing on either using some Titebond II or Devcon 2 ton epoxy. = -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------=_NextPart_000_01BE77A0.6D258240-- from brookie@frii.com Fri Mar 26 15:17:56 1999 Subject: Solved My Problem - Mike Clark Thanks to all who wrote me, esp those that offered to do the job... found alocal source however. For some reason I didn't think about Mike Clark,who is just up the road from me ( as matter of fact, I was fishing his andJG's St. Vrain just yesterday *G* , and yes, with the cane, and yes, caughtbrowns galore ).... Mike does repairs in addition to making cane rods. I just didn't thinkthat he would have. Gave him a quick call, he said " bring it by, let melook at it " .. and sure enough, after he muttered " there's your problem,brass ferrules ( harrumph ! )...", he took the rod and it'll be done nextweek. Always nice to walk into a canebuilder's place. I went out andinterviewed Mike just for the heck of it about a year ago, got to spendseveral days hanging around. But no way I could afford one of his rods,nor would I wait the 2.5 years to get one. Still and all, the canebuildersworkshop is a marvel to me. Upscale, earthy looking pack-ratting at it'sbest. Stands of culm in the corner, various stages of cane in process allover the room, ever present flyfishing artwork on the walls, braggingpictures, other cane for sale, all behind a bright purple exterior of theshop. *G* Looks like he is apprenticing a lady for some of the wrapjobs by the by. Alright, have solved my problem, he'll do a little pin-job, reglue and I'llbe happy camper next week. Might even celebrate, take the day off andfishthe S. Vrain again... If you all don't mind, I'll quietly hang in the corner here and watch yourodmakers talk cane. I know little about the technical end of it, haveonly observed some, and done none. I will say this, the websites ofcanebuilders ARE beautiful. But that goes with the territory of cane. Thanks again,SueColorado from AWatel9725@aol.com Fri Mar 26 15:23:38 1999 Subject: ending my subscription I would like to end my online subscription.Thanks, awatel9725@aol,com from dhaftel@att.com Fri Mar 26 15:31:52 1999 (8.8.8+Sun/EMS-1.2 sol2) (5.5.2232.9) Subject: RE: Cork ring adhesion epoxy. I set the rings up on a section of threaded rod and press the ringstogether with nuts and washers at each end. It seems to be flexibleenoughto sand evenly without gumming up. Is there something I should know??? Dennis -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Cork ring adhesion Stick with the Titebond II for the cork rings. It's particularly easy toclean up with water, and the glue sands about as well as the cork itselfwhen turning the grip. Also, the glue is invisible and dries very quickly. Cheers, Bill ----------From: Eric Adams Subject: Cork ring adhesionDate: Friday, March 26, 1999 9:18 AM Gents, I was hoping to extract some thoughts on what types of glue you use inbonding your cork rings together for the grips. I'm going to finish- upbuilding my TSmithwick 5'6'' this weekend and was hoping to finish thegripthis evening.I was planing on either using some Titebond II or Devcon 2 ton epoxy. I'mabit wary of using the epoxy as I thought it might not sand well or that itwould be to ridged, not allowing the handle to flex and eventually crack.So any thoughts on that would be greatly appreciated. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eric AdamsDept. of Plant BiologySIUCCarbondale, IL 62901 from HARMS1@prodigy.net Fri Mar 26 16:19:34 1999 Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:19:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Angle Start Form =_NextPart_000_01BE77AC.8865B640" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE77AC.8865B640 Except for the largest culms (2 1/2 inches or so), I have never been ableto get 24 strips. That's, as one might say, splitting it pretty thin. Ialways get 18 without any problem, but 24 is, for my bunch of culms, a bitmuch. As to the "squaring-up" stage of preparation (after the strip has beenstraightened at the nodes and filed flat), I use nothing but my bench top,an old Stanley plane and my eyeballs. This goes quickly andworksperfectly efficiently. I don't believe you really need a form for thisstage of the work at all. It's at the NEXT stage, however, where you needyour first planing form. Now you need to change that square cross- sectioninto the 60 degree, triangular configuration, and for this, you need tomake a form (hardwood is fine, and any length beyond 3 feet) with twogrooves. One of the grooves (the first one into which you lay the square strip) hasa 90-degree angle at its bottom, but that 90-degree angle isautomaticallyformed by cutting down into the surface of the form at a 120-degree angle from oneside of the groove (giving you a 60-degree side), while the other side ofthe groove is cut in at a 150-degree from the surface (giving you a 30-degree side). Thinkabout that now. You will have a resulting triangle WITHIN the groove of90-degrees at the bottom, 60-degrees on one corner, and 30-degrees ontheother corner.) This is not an adjustable groove, since it is not meant toprovide a taper, and it should not be more than 1/8 inch deep overall,since it is meant to accommodate the thinner tip strips as well as thebuttstrips. Now, lay your square strip into the groove with the enameled surface flatagainst the "wide" side of the groove, and press the enamel AGAINSTTHATside as you plane the protruding surface flat. Take particular care tokeep your plane level with the planing form as you go, but do NOT plane allthe way down flush with the form. You only want to establish a good,substantial, triangular "flat" along the length of the strip. You now need the second groove (which runs parallel to the first) in therough form. This groove will form the final equilateral shape, so it iscut in with the usual 60-degree angle at its bottom. The corner you justestablished while planing in the first groove will now enable the strip tolie within the 60-degree bottom of the second groove. Move your stripoverto this second groove, but flip it so that you are now ready to establishthe triangular flat on the second, "inside" surface of the strip. Do notplane all the way down flush with the surface, but instead, just establisha good flat. You will now want to flip the strip back and forth in this second groove,as you work it down to manageable proportions for your adjustable form. Take care, again, that you maintain 60-degree angles by planing level withthe surface of the form itself. Check your work with a center-gauge fromtime to time as you work each strip down. This will take some time tolearn, but soon you will gain a feel for the process. Cheers, Bill ----------From: Michael Leitheiser Subject: Angle Start FormDate: Thursday, March 25, 1999 7:02 PM Gentlemen:I think I have a fairly good idea of how to go about getting a finalplaning form up and running, but I am a little confused on "roughing"forms. In Cattanachs book he uses a 30* and a 52.5* angle in the form he usesto""square up" the strips before he goes on to another form to put theinitial untapered 60* angle on the strips. I think I understand how to use the 60* tool to get the goove in thefinalplaning form, but how in the devil to you get the angles in the roughingform? Also, Cattanachs choice of angles for the "squaring up form" arebased on the fact that he normally gets 24 strips from a culm...is thisrealistic for a first timer?Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane------ =_NextPart_000_01BE77AC.8865B640 Except for the largestculms =(2 1/2 inches or so), I have never been able to get 24 strips. = always get 18 without any problem, but 24 is, for my bunch of culms, a = preparation (after the strip has been straightened at the nodes and = cross-section into the 60 degree, triangular configuration, and for =this, you need to make a form (hardwood is fine, and any length beyond 3 = into which you lay the square strip) has a 90-degree angle at its =bottom, but that 90-degree angle is automatically formed by cutting =down into the surface of the form at a 120-degree angle from one side of=the groove (giving you a 60-degree side), while the other side of the =groove is cut in at a 150-degree from the surface (giving you a = =resulting triangle WITHIN the groove of 90-degrees at the bottom, =60- degrees on one corner, and 30-degrees on the other corner.) = provide a taper, and it should not be more than 1/8 inch deep overall, =since it is meant to accommodate the thinner tip strips as well as the =butt strips.Now, lay your square strip into the groove with the =enameled surface flat against the "wide" side of the groove, = protruding = the planing form as you go, but do NOT plane all the way down flush with = = equilateral shape, so it is cut in with the usual 60-degree angle at its = planing in the first groove will now enable the strip to lie within the = strip over to this second groove, but flip it so that you are now ready =to establish the triangular flat on the second, "inside" = now want to flip the strip back and forth in this second groove, as you =work it down to manageable proportions for your adjustable form. = will take some time to learn, but soon you will gain a feel for the = think I have a fairly good idea of how to go about getting a = ""square up" the strips before he goes on to another form= =McGuane ------=_NextPart_000_01BE77AC.8865B640-- from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Mar 26 16:21:51 1999 Subject: Re: Cork ring adhesion Eric Forget the Epoxy - use the Titebond for the cork for the reasonyou say - the results with titebond are really good and you do not get theridges you fear. The glue is soft and will not leave ridges when you turnyour handle. chris On Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:22:30 -0500, harry37@epix.net wrote: Eric Adams wrote: Gents, I was hoping to extract some thoughts on what types of glue you use inbonding your cork rings together for the grips. I'm going to finish- upbuilding my TSmithwick 5'6'' this weekend and was hoping to finish thegripthis evening.I was planing on either using some Titebond II or Devcon 2 ton epoxy. I'm abit wary of using the epoxy as I thought it might not sand well or thatitwould be to ridged, not allowing the handle to flex and eventually crack.So any thoughts on that would be greatly appreciated. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eric AdamsDept. of Plant BiologySIUCCarbondale, IL 62901 Eric, I've used Devcon 2 ton GEL---it starts out as a blue/clear, and endscream colored--because it's a gel, it's a little more flexible, and itsands well--no failures yet, but the rods haven't been fished hard my $.02 Greg Kuntz Regards Chris from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Fri Mar 26 16:59:31 1999 Subject: Re: Solved My Problem - Mike Clark And here I was sure you called him first and he turned down the job. Bob On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, Sue Kreutzer wrote: Thanks to all who wrote me, esp those that offered to do the job... foundalocal source however. For some reason I didn't think about Mike Clark,who is just up the road from me ( as matter of fact, I was fishing hisandJG's St. Vrain just yesterday *G* , and yes, with the cane, and yes,caughtbrowns galore ).... Mike does repairs in addition to making cane rods. I just didn't thinkthat he would have. Gave him a quick call, he said " bring it by, let melook at it " .. and sure enough, after he muttered " there's your problem,brass ferrules ( harrumph ! )...", he took the rod and it'll be done nextweek. Always nice to walk into a canebuilder's place. I went out andinterviewed Mike just for the heck of it about a year ago, got to spendseveral days hanging around. But no way I could afford one of his rods,nor would I wait the 2.5 years to get one. Still and all, the canebuildersworkshop is a marvel to me. Upscale, earthy looking pack-ratting at it'sbest. Stands of culm in the corner, various stages of cane in process allover the room, ever present flyfishing artwork on the walls, braggingpictures, other cane for sale, all behind a bright purple exterior of theshop. *G* Looks like he is apprenticing a lady for some of the wrapjobs by the by. Alright, have solved my problem, he'll do a little pin-job, reglue and I'llbe happy camper next week. Might even celebrate, take the day off andfishthe S. Vrain again... If you all don't mind, I'll quietly hang in the corner here and watch yourodmakers talk cane. I know little about the technical end of it, haveonly observed some, and done none. I will say this, the websites ofcanebuilders ARE beautiful. But that goes with the territory of cane. Thanks again,SueColorado from rmoon@ida.net Fri Mar 26 17:49:10 1999 0000 Subject: Re: Angle Start Form 9DD0A11F958483B0AD8C05BE" --------------9DD0A11F958483B0AD8C05BE I May missing something and working harder than I need to, but I havenever felt the need for alternative planing forms. After splitting mycane, I use a old #9 plane with a hogging cut to trim the ragged edges metal form with 60 degree grooves and I just triangulate the strip inthe 60 form. Granted you have to watch what you are doing, but have notrouble. Once the strip is roughly triangulated I transfer to theregular planing form and concentrate on single curls from alternatesides. I never have any trouble with my angles that I can't correctwith one or two apses of the plane. I seem to be a little moreparticular than Don with his knife, but I sometimes think that the easyway is the best way. never shall. In setting my form, I use only a micrometer and teststrips ala Garrison. and my fingers. I tweak the form with thetest strips until I am satisfied and then go ahead and plane thestrips . I mike them out after I am finished, and rarely have anytrouble. . --------------9DD0A11F958483B0AD8C05BE I May missing something and working harder than I need to, but I havenever I use a old #9 plane with a hogging cut to trim the ragged edges by just form with 60 degree grooves and I just triangulate the strip in the 60 trouble.Once the strip is roughly triangulated I transfer to the regular planing have any trouble with my angles that I can't correct with one or two apses his knife, but I sometimes think that the easy way is the best way. with the test strips until I am satisfied and then go ahead and plane the --------------9DD0A11F958483B0AD8C05BE-- from Craig.Naldrett@ibm.net Fri Mar 26 18:38:39 1999 with ESMTP idAAA37212 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 199900:38:35 GMT Subject: Stanley # 12 Thanks to the guy who responded (sorry lost your note, I think last namewas Bols ?), anyway bought the # 12 just because it was very cool & anumber 45 with 14 blades which it appears will fund a few days of midgefishing upon resale.ThanksCraig from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Fri Mar 26 19:36:52 1999 mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net(InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Bamboo boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01BE77C8.39182200" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BE77C8.39182200 Check out the Travel section, page 4D of the USA Today. That stand of =bamboo in the lobby of the Philadelphia Sheraton Hotel is 40' high and =getting bigger by the minute. Just thought you might be interested. Jack ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BE77C8.39182200 Check out the Travel section, page 4D of the USA = stand of bamboo in the lobby of the Philadelphia Sheraton Hotel is 40' = getting bigger by the minute. Just thought you might be =interested. Jack ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BE77C8.39182200-- from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Mar 26 20:39:42 1999 Subject: Interesting item on eBay web site item#80161255: Paul Young"Parabolic15" SplitBamboo Fly Rod I thought it might be of interest to list members to see how much a PHYPara 15 went for oneBay. No commercial interest.... Richard Title of item: Paul Young "Parabolic15" Split Bamboo Fly RodSeller: buckantmal@aol.comStarts: 03/18/99 22:23:54 PST Ends: 03/25/99 22:23:54 PST Price: Currently $1560.00 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=80161255 Item Description: This sharp looking 8 ft. split bamboo trout fly rod is a signed PaulYoung "Parabolic15", with two identical tips. Both tips & the rod shaft carry the serialnumber #3972. Onthe rod shaft, immediately above the cork hand grip, it is signed "A Paul H.Young Co. Rod,"Parabolic 15" - 8' 4 oz." . The fly rod comes complete with what appearsto be the originalburgandy colored satin bag and an aluminum tube case with an aluminumtop. The black buttcap is also imprinted "Paul H. Young Co., Detroit --- Mich.". The originallustre of thelaquer or varnish finish of the tips & fly rod shaft is quite pleasing to theeyes. The rodappears that is was used very little. Although 11 pictures follow, thepictures don't do therod justice, as it was difficult to take good pictures of it. The real rodlooks good andhas a great feel to it. The connecting ferrules appear to be in soundcondition without anycracks. I would consider the shafts of the tips and fly rod in close to !excellent condition with the following exception: one of the snake or zguides on one of thetips has one foot popped loose from the winding. The winding appears tonot be torn, but thefoot of the snake guide has slipped loose(This is shown on the very lasteBay pic). The corkhand grip looks to have average wear with an apx. 1/8 x 1/16 in. divit nearthe top. Thealuminum reel locking ring and the butt cap have a little of the black paintworn off. Themetal part above the cork reel seat has some corrosion, but the lockingring works fine. Thesatin bag has a tear at the bottom where the rod would set(apx. 1 1/4 x 11/2 inches) and avery small tear at the bottom where one of the tips would set. Otherwise, the bag is ingood condition. The aluminum case has a few binges in it and numerousscratches on it.Neither the bag nor the case have any identifying labels. The references Icould find on thePaul Young Parabolic 15, include a price listing in "Antique & Colle!ctible Fishing Rods Identification & Value Guide" by D. B. Homel at $900.00 in very goodcondition, and $ 1900.00 in excellent-mint condition. In the "FishingTackle Antiques &Collectibles" value guide by Karl T. White, there is a listing in the Rods atAuction sectionthat shows a Paul Young Parabolic 15 selling in very good condition at $2000.00 - $ 3000.00.I have a modest reserve on the rod to protect my interest and Good Luck!! If you have anyspecific questions or need to see a pic of a part I haven't shown, feel freeto Email me.Buyer pays $ 10.00 shipping & handling in USA with insurance optional. WVresidents add 6%sales tax. On 03/18/99 at 22:26:11 PDT, seller added the following information:Free counters provided by Honesty Communications.Sellers, to view all ofyour Honesty(tm)counters at a glance, click here Visit eBay, the world's largest Personal Trading Community athttp://www.ebay.com from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri Mar 26 23:01:00 1999 (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP Sat, 27 Mar 1999 05:00:28 +0000 Subject: Re: Bamboo boundary="----=_NextPart_000_007C_01BE77CC.1A804440" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_007C_01BE77CC.1A804440 Sounds like the ideal location for a Rodmakers gathering. (Provided the =hotel has the bamboo insured!) ;^) George-----Original Message-----From: Jacques Follweiler Date: Friday, March 26, 1999 5:43 PMSubject: Bamboo Check out the Travel section, page 4D of the USA Today. That stand =of bamboo in the lobby of the Philadelphia Sheraton Hotel is 40' high =and getting bigger by the minute. Just thought you might be interested. Jack ------=_NextPart_000_007C_01BE77CC.1A804440 Sounds like the ideal location fora = ;^) George -----Original = Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= BambooCheck out the Travel section, page 4D of the USA= That stand of bamboo in the lobby of the Philadelphia Sheraton Hotel = interested. Jack ------=_NextPart_000_007C_01BE77CC.1A804440-- from jaquin@netsync.net Sat Mar 27 05:46:18 1999 Subject: scrapers-setup and usage hi all, looking for some opinions/advice from those using a scraper toplane final dimensions. 1. what angle in relation to vertical is yourblade set at? wayne's book suggests -3 degrees, while ben crenshaw'sblocked scraper plans call for -4 degrees. 2. what is the depth theblade protrudes below the sole of the scraper? Again Wayne suggest 1.5thousands. 3. At what angle do you grind the scraper blade? 4. doyou burnish over the bur on the scraper blade? if so do you eyeball itor use a burnishing jig fixture and at what angle? tia for your help. jerry from cattanac@wmis.net Sat Mar 27 06:32:45 1999 mail4.wmis.net (8.8.8/SCO5) Subject: Re: scrapers-setup and usage -----Original Message----- Subject: scrapers-setup and usage hi all, looking for some opinions/advice from those using a scraper toplane final dimensions. 1. what angle in relation to vertical is yourblade set at? wayne's book suggests -3 degrees, while ben crenshaw'sblocked scraper plans call for -4 degrees. Jerry -I really don't think that a drgree of differance is going to preform anydifferantly - the key is that the blade is forward of center. in essence theblade is 'dragged' accross the surface and not 'pushed' 2. what is the depth theblade protrudes below the sole of the scraper? Again Wayne suggest 1.5thousands.I start to use a scraper when the strip dimensions are at about .005 from the final. I am working all six strips at a time - from .005 I willusually take a couple of passes at .0015 - then I will take the strips 'tothe mark' using passes of .0005" - either of these adjustments can beachieved but setting the scraper on a clean patch of workbench and theusingdifferent finger pressure on the top of the blade as the lock screw istightened. Yes - its another one of those learn the feel things - the typeof Zen that this craft is filled with. To start you might try setting thevery front edge of the scraper on a thin shim stock' If I am cleaning up a chipping node I will use the thicker .0015adjustment. 3. At what angle do you grind the scraper blade? 4. doyou burnish over the bur on the scraper blade? if so do you eyeball it oruse a burnishing jig fixture and at what angle? Several folks have had good luck by treating the scraper blade as if itwere a plane blade - by sharpening to 30 degrees and removing the burr -this leaves you with only one jig for setting the blades into the bladeholder at sharpening. Tom (Lie-Nielsen) talks of using a burr as the cuttingedge - I suspect that because of the hardness of bamboo that it would haveatendency of flipping on you and insulating the cut. Years ago after a likediscussion with Tom I sent him a large freezer bag of scraper shaving of.0005" thickness to prove that the the burr wasn't needed for the scrapertopreform - without the burr sharpening is more straight forward.The angle that Tom precuts on the scraper blade is very blunt - if youare very carefull you can use a bench grinder to profile the angle closer tothe needed 30 - this will save much grief at the sharpening stone. Have acup of water by the bench grinder - just mouch the blade to the grindingstone at the angled needed - immediately quench the blade in the cup ofwater. the caution is that the heat of grinding can draw out the hardeningof the blade is left at the grinding wheel for any period of time - indicated by a blue spot. The water quenching is very important .Anotheronthe list of 'need to do just once' type issues.tia for your help. jerry from cattanac@wmis.net Sat Mar 27 06:57:05 1999 mail4.wmis.net (8.8.8/SCO5) Subject: Re: Bamboo boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01BE7827.CDA5B7C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BE7827.CDA5B7C0 Psssst Jack -Keep the guy at the desk busy - I'll slip out to the truck and get =the chainsaw ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BE7827.CDA5B7C0 Psssst Jack - at = - I'll slip out to the truck and get the =chainsaw ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BE7827.CDA5B7C0-- from anglport@con2.com Sat Mar 27 07:51:31 1999 Subject: Re: scrapers-setup and usage Anyone who answers Jerry; please do it on the list as I, and I'm sure manyothers, would be interested in learning about this.Thanks,Art At 06:38 AM 3/27/99 -0500, Jerry Quinn wrote:hi all, looking for some opinions/advice from those using a scraper toplane final dimensions. tia for your help. jerry from bmayer@teleport.com Sat Mar 27 08:34:47 1999 0000 (216.26.6.164) Subject: Re: scrapers-setup and usage Jerry Quinn wrote: hi all, looking for some opinions/advice from those using a scraper toplane final dimensions. 1. what angle in relation to vertical is yourblade set at? wayne's book suggests -3 degrees, while ben crenshaw'sblocked scraper plans call for -4 degrees. 2. what is the depth theblade protrudes below the sole of the scraper? Again Wayne suggest 1.5thousands. 3. At what angle do you grind the scraper blade? 4. doyou burnish over the bur on the scraper blade? if so do you eyeball itor use a burnishing jig fixture and at what angle? tia for your help. I am just a beginner at rod building but have some experience withscrapers. I have the advantage of working with Ed Hartzell in cane. He usesa scraper made from a heavy duty hacksaw blade. The one I bought fromTravers is 1/16" thick and 1 1/2X19". It is very very hard steel. I cut a6" piece off using the edge of the coarse grinding wheel (hacksaw bladesand files just bounce off this stuff). After grinding off the teeth, takingcare not to overheat it, the scraping edges are ground on a finer wheelwith the tool rest set at the apex of the wheel thus giving a subtle hollowgrind. One also needs to dress the sides on a stone or wheel, the shinierthe better. After hollow grinding one edge has a slight burr and the otheris a little more blunt. The blunt edge takes a finer shaving, but eitherside works well if all that is needed is a few thousandths.Echoing what has been said here earlier this week, this is a) very simplewith little expense b) once set up this scraper will last one heckuva longtime and I still have 13" of hacksaw to make two more and c) doesn'trequire depth setting or tuning a scraper plane. The downside? It isn'tnearly as attractive as a Lie Nielsen.Barry from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sat Mar 27 11:16:37 1999 SMTP(Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.3d1); Sat, 27 Mar 1999 12:17:04 - 0500 Subject: Thramer 6' 4wt. boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0031_01BE784C.8F829560" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01BE784C.8F829560 I seem to have misplaced my noted on the rod. Could anyone please send =me the guide spacing as posted by A.J.? Thanks in advance. Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod Company)140 E. Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) 277-4510www.munrorodco.com ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01BE784C.8F829560 I seem to have misplaced mynoted on = Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod = Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) =277- 4510www.munrorodco.com ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01BE784C.8F829560-- from fiveside@net-gate.com Sat Mar 27 12:28:55 1999 (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA02031 for ;Sat, 27 Mar 1999 Subject: Test Strips To the ListAs usual Ralph Moon has it right. Test strips are the no-nonsense way togo. Two big advantages: they accommodate to your particular style, notyourgauge, and they work on 4 and 5 siders as well as 6'ers. Bill from cotner@novagate.com Sat Mar 27 13:20:06 1999 Subject: Cork rings adhesion - Pt. 2 Has anyone had the grip loosen from the blank with Titebond II?Regards,Roger CotnerGrand Haven, Michigan from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sat Mar 27 14:53:37 1999 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1998.03.08.20.27)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, Subject: Stainless steel I've made snake guides out of surgical stainless steel and would like todarken them a bit. Some helpful list members have in the past suggestedheating them up. Would anyone know how high a temperature and for howlong?I'd like to darken them without loosing the stainless steel's rust-proofproperties. Thanks in advance. Richard from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Sat Mar 27 15:33:37 1999 mtiwmhc07.worldnet.att.net(InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP Subject: FormsHelpThanks, Fario Club Thanks to all for the helpful suggestions on roughing forms. I don't havemuch to contribute except possibly a taper or 2 from rods I have..This is one of my favorite rods, a Ritz Fario Club, 8 1/2 ft staggeredferrule for a 6 wt. This particular rod was marketed by Abercrombie andFitch(made by Pezon et Michel of course) and came from the estate ofWilliam Conrad, the actor who was the voice of Matt Dillon on the radioversion of Gunsmoke and on the tv series "Cannon". I am graphing tapers toget a feel for what they look like...I'll have to figure out how to usehexrod and run this one through just out of curiousity. 0 .0935 .10310 .12015 .14320 .16125 .16830 .17835 .19840 .21045 .22350 .23255 .253 interpolated from 53 and 57 as this is where ferrule is60 .26865 .28070 .29075 .29080 .29685 .30490 .312.##measurements taken over original varnish, I would judge averagethicknes..Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Mar 27 16:23:18 1999 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Stainless steel In a message dated 3/27/99 8:59:03 PM, richard.nantel@videotron.cawrote: Richard - Assuming they are made from 300 series stainless, you can heatthemto about 600* Fahrenheight without harming the temper or the corrosionresistance. The area to stay away from is 900* and up, which will causesomenasty effects. If you don't have access to an oven you can do this with analcohol lamp working very carefully. It only takes a second to burn theguidesand ruin them. If they turn black, you have gone too far. You should be ableto get a nice medium brown using flame for a few seconds at the rightdistance. If you have access to an oven that wil heat to the temperature,leave them in for about 1/2 hour, and you will get a nice coating. Maybetheself cleaning cycle on a household oven would work? In any case, practicewithsome scrap pieces first. from BambooRods@aol.com Sat Mar 27 21:54:00 1999 Subject: happy99 Am I correct, email can not give one a virus as it is not an executablefile?One must download the file to have problems. I have had someone from thelistemail me thinking they corrupted my system. Thoughts.doug from mrj@aa.net Sat Mar 27 23:04:03 1999 Sat, 27 Mar 1999 21:03:59 -0800 Subject: RE: happy99 You are correct in that e-mail as such cannot give you a virus (that I amaware of). You can receive attachments in e-mail and that will give you avirus, but you would have to open them for that to happen. You can receiveaword or an excel document that has a macro in it and the macro could haveavirus but again it would have to be sent as an attachment . Basically, otherthan a macro, a virus would have to be an exe file and a macro is kind of anexe file.E-mail only sends text. When you want to send a word document (forexample)the document is converted to text and sent as an attachment. When youopenup the attachment what you are doing is converting it back to a Wordformatted document, macros and all. that is when you could get a virus.note: Just because a document like Word or Excel has a Macro does notmeanit has a virus!To play it safe turn, macro protection on in both Word and Excel. Most ofthe viruses that you will come across can be detected by good and up todatevirus scanning software. Notice that I said "most". -----Original Message----- BambooRods@aol.com Subject: happy99 Am I correct, email can not give one a virus as it is not an executablefile?One must download the file to have problems. I have had someone from thelistemail me thinking they corrupted my system. Thoughts.doug from maxs@geocities.co.jp Sun Mar 28 06:27:35 1999 bysv01.geocities.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W) with ESMTP id VAA27149 for; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 21:27:31 +0900 (JST) mail.geocities.co.jp (1.3G-8.9.3/GeocitiesJ-3.1) with ESMTP id VAA11649for; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 21:27:29 +0900 (JST) Subject: Straightening -just after glue/binding Hello all, I was so curious of a new method of straightening, ,whacking the gluedblank, and tried it today.After binding 8 blanks by EZ binder using Shell Epon (thick staff!), Iwhacked theblanks on the flat table.When I looked through the blanks after it, the blank was almost straightbut at the location of one third of the blanks, especially tip blankshad a slow curvature remained and it was hard to correct it. Then, I took one of the tip blanks and tried to wave it. Though Ialready realized how the strips movearound when I bend at butt section when, as Sir D suggested, maskingtapes were put every 4 inches on a blank, exactly same movementhappenedon the blank when I did same after I bound the blanks with thread. Holding a blank (tip is more typical) with both hand with 1 ft lengthapart, try to face one surface upward and bend the length of holding like when a rod is pulled An interesting thing is that another blank portion will move indifferent direction to the orignial bend, and then a little apartfurther, waves to reverse, like a snake, but it tried to movevertically. (this becomes important later, remembe this). Next interesting thing is that when I tried to move a blank as above,the blank tended not to move up and down straightly, but tried to move twisted when the portion wastwisted. I felt such stress on my hands. As I used EZ binder, thetention of right turn and left turn were different since EZ binder isdrived by left hand, manually. ( I like EZ binder very much andcontinue to use it, it's convenient.) What I realized are;Twist of the blank was caused by binding and kept twisted with the forceof binding thread tention.It is difficult to correct the bend or twist while the thread tention isforcing them on a blank.While keep waving the same flat up and down at the center of both handsseveral times (more than 5 times), the upper (and opposite) surface ofthe blank tend to line up on the same flat. the blank, I could make one surface with no twist, though bend isremained. Thus twist could be get rid of the blank.After that, rolling the non-twisted blank on the flat table produced astraight blank. My analysis is that whacking is somehow doing the similar effect to waving at some portion of the blank though uncouscious of the portion. Waving seems to adjust the location of each of the strips automatically,especially vertically. When the tention of binder thread is different,keep bending up and down and try to control the possible twist movementas straight as possible. Try this next time. Max -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod from anglport@con2.com Sun Mar 28 06:47:09 1999 Subject: Melissa virus All,I just opened my NY Times this am to read of a virus that is beingintroduced via e-mail (though, again, you must open it to release it). Itseems to come from a friend (we're particularly vulnerable on a list likethis), has the subject: "Important Message From", and opens with "Here is that document youaskedfor...don't show anyone else ;-)". It has an attached MS Word file named "list.doc". Sound likesomething wemight eagerly open? When you do it sends a copy of itself to the first 50names in your address book and tries to jam the server. They say it won'tdamage the home system but that several large corporations' networks andservers had to be shut down due to the little bugger.It is most effective against Outlook and Outlook Express and doesn'tseemto be able to open the address books in other e-mail software, but they'renot promising any immmunity for them.If this is spotty, it's because I'm not a wonk and you can read thearticle on pg 26 of the Sun NY Times today.Thought you might want to know,Art from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Mar 28 09:43:07 1999 Sun, 28 Mar 1999 23:41:43 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: happy99 On Sat, 27 Mar 1999 BambooRods@aol.com wrote: Am I correct, email can not give one a virus as it is not an executablefile?One must download the file to have problems. I have had someone fromthe listemail me thinking they corrupted my system. Thoughts.doug Doug, I've had quite a bit of experience with Happy99 worm (virus) and althoughnot an expert on all virus I can say this from my own experiences aboutHappy99 which is a good one from the virus author's point of view.This isn't exhaustive, just what I've found. It dosn't seem to affect pre Win 95, win for workgroup and 3.1x are ok.It wont affect Macs.Wont affect Unix and Linux.The reason it dosn't affect Mac, and Unix et al is it just isn'tmultilingural as well as the fact the directorty structure iscompletely different to that used by X86 machines. I'm writing this using Linux so I'd see if you sent Happy99 as it wouldappear on my system as a seperate file of garbage. I didn't get a seperatefile of garbage from you so I'd say you may not have it but chech if youare concerned. Even if you have win95 on you may still not be affected if your emailreader dosn't automaticaly unencode email, most recent email readers*do*unencode automaticaly by default. This is why older ver of windows don't seem to have a problem with thisparticular virus as the software just writes the file to disk and you mustunencode the file manualy. Now for the really interesting bit and the reason it's just so devlishlytricky to guard against. If your reader does unencode automaticaly youwont know you have the virus ready to go. What happens is somebody getsHappy99 somehow, possibly they got it from somebody else whointentionaly interesting graphic file. I heard of a couple of people who actually*asked* for the file!Anyhow, you click the message, fireworks appear on the screen and your wsock.dll file is hijacked and re-writen so when ever you send an emailmessage on a file called ska.exe goes with the email message. I'm unsureas to if Happy99.exe goes as well or if it's created from ska.exe, boththese files are bad guys as is the new ver of wsock.dll. The originalwsock.dll is copyed to a file called wsock.skaska.exe is (I think) the exe that starts the ball rolling and does nothave to specificaly run by you in any way other than clicking on an email message. The tricky part is the actual file you click to cause all this to happenis just an email message *NOT* an attachment so how do you tell what itisto delete it?You don't unless you switch off auto unencode, then you'll see email inplain text along with all those damn anoying formating chars used thesedays to add emphasis to email *or* a screen full of garbage. The garbagemay be the virus in it's encoded form or a graphic file. If you know it'sa graphic all's well otherwise delete it. Forget the idea you can't get a virus just by reading email, it used to beso but 'tant no more in a realistic sense. The place I punch in at most days had a file sent in a mass emailing froman associate and got this virus, as did about 25 others across thecountry at the same time from this source. I removed the virus in themorning , then again that afternoon , then again the next daysimply because the others in the group either didn't know they had it orthought it wasn't a problem and kept emailing us. Happily this little guy dosn't *seem* to do any harm that is known of andis easy to find and destroy.Look at this address and bookmark it for future use: http://members.tripod.com/docsmiley/happy99.htm Doc offers this site free but requests you click on the little box at thebottom of the page so he earns 2 cents a hit, I have nothing to do withhim etc, etc but his page has saved my ar.e a few times. Sorry for the band width but I'm a bit evangalistic with this worm as I'vecome across it a few times now. Jerry, Please don't include this in the archives. Tony /***********************************************************************/Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb? A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from dmanders@telusplanet.net Sun Mar 28 09:57:38 1999 don") byedtnps05.telusplanet.net with SMTP id ; Sun, 28 Mar 199908:57:17 - 0700 Subject: Re: Straightening -just after glue/binding From: Don & Sandy Andersen Subject: Re: Straightening -just after glue/binding Max, Pleased you like the whacking idea - been using it for about 10 years orso - don't know where or why I first started doing it - tried dropping theblank onto a smooth surface to start with and found out that it just didn'tget enough force into things. Attempted to really whack the blank onto thesurface and found that the blank would occasionally rebound and stillleavea curve in it - found that by holding the butt with 2 fingers and makingthe blank fall onto a smooth surface gave about the best results.If you roll your blank onto a surface you will tend to equalize thebinding cord tensions a little. I use a piece of what is called " butcherpaper" ( a brown type of paper waxed on one side that meat cutters use forwrapping of meat) wax side upwards to glue and whack the blank on. Thewaxallows easy cleanup between butt and tip glue sessions - disposes easilyafter gluing is done.Would be careful of leaving your tape on when gluing - if you examine theedges of the tape where you have cut it prior to gluing - you will see alittle glue residue and tape that sticks out from the edge. It will getbetween your strips - maybe cause problems. take care, Don At 09:28 PM 3/28/99 +0900, you wrote:Hello all, I was so curious of a new method of straightening, ,whacking the gluedblank, and tried it today.After binding 8 blanks by EZ binder using Shell Epon (thick staff!), Iwhacked theblanks on the flat table.When I looked through the blanks after it, the blank was almost straightbut at the location of one third of the blanks, especially tip blankshad a slow curvature remained and it was hard to correct it. Then, I took one of the tip blanks and tried to wave it. Though Ialready realized how the strips movearound when I bend at butt section when, as Sir D suggested,masking>>tapes were put every 4 inches on a blank, exactly samemovement happenedon the blank when I did same after I bound the blanks with thread. Holding a blank (tip is more typical) with both hand with 1 ft lengthapart, try to face one surface upward and bend the length of holding like when a rod is pulled An interesting thing is that another blank portion will move indifferent direction to the orignial bend, and then a little apartfurther, waves to reverse, like a snake, but it tried to movevertically. (this becomes important later, remembe this). Next interesting thing is that when I tried to move a blank as above,the blank tended not to move up and down straightly, but tried to move twisted when the portion wastwisted. I felt such stress on my hands. As I used EZ binder, thetention of right turn and left turn were different since EZ binder isdrived by left hand, manually. ( I like EZ binder very much andcontinue to use it, it's convenient.) What I realized are;Twist of the blank was caused by binding and kept twisted with theforceof binding thread tention.It is difficult to correct the bend or twist while the thread tention isforcing them on a blank.While keep waving the same flat up and down at the center of both handsseveral times (more than 5 times), the upper (and opposite) surface ofthe blank tend to line up on the same flat. the blank, I could make one surface with no twist, though bend isremained. Thus twist could be get rid of the blank.After that, rolling the non-twisted blank on the flat table produced astraight blank. My analysis is that whacking is somehow doing the similar effect to waving at some portion of the blank though uncouscious of the portion. Waving seems to adjust the location of each of the strips automatically,especially vertically. When the tention of binder thread is different,keep bending up and down and try to control the possible twistmovementas straight as possible. Try this next time. Max -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod from utzerath@execpc.com Sun Mar 28 11:13:10 1999 Subject: Re: Cork ring adhesion boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE790B.9C1251C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE790B.9C1251C0 If you if you can find part 5 of Al Cambell's tutorial on graphite rod =building in flyanglersonline.com, you'll see a simple method for grip =making. He uses Weldwood Plastic Resin glue (its cheap and readily =available). I've used it as Cambell describes several times on both ="burl" and specie cork rings with good results. It must be tightly = ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE790B.9C1251C0 If you if you can find part 5 of Al Cambell's = graphite rod building in flyanglersonline.com, you'll see a simple = tightly clamped as he describes. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE790B.9C1251C0-- from anglport@con2.com Sun Mar 28 11:30:53 1999 Subject: A Site I never heard of--anybody else? Just found this site on a bulletin board at http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/flyfishingthecatskills The thing has a lot of bamboo stuff on it. Not too informative right now,but who knows? It's at http://www.breacmor.com/institute/institute.html The guy who posted it says it has fly patterns too. I haven't found toomuch in that area yet.Art from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Mar 28 12:10:41 1999 Subject: Re: Straightening -just after glue/binding As I used EZ binder, thetention of right turn and left turn were different since EZ binder isdrived by left hand, manually. ( I like EZ binder very much andcontinue to use it, it's convenient.) Another reason I use fishing monofilament to bind my rods. Themono stretches a little as it is wrapped on, and because it can slip a little on the blank (slicker surface than cotton thread), the tension tends to equalize. Wrapping over the tape tends to get rid of the short kinks andtwists, but the long sweeping curves are still there. That's wherewhacking helps. You do have to make an attempt to keep theblank straight as you put the tape on. A crooked blank with tapeon will still be crooked even if you wrap over the tape. With more thread tension one way than the other, I don't know if anything will eliminate a twist in that case. You seem to have tried to put into words what anyone makingbamboo rods has discovered. When the glue is still liquid thereis a fundamental difference in the way a blank responds toattempts to straighten than when the glue is hardened. The reason other at the spot you are attempting to straighten but not a footor so on either side. Hence the S shape of the blank if the glueis wet, but not when the glue is dry. The only advice I can offeris when the glue is wet you have to manipulate longer areasof the blank than just where it is crooked. It's another one ofthose "experience" things, and sometimes it is easier to dealwith straightening after the glue hardens. Darryl from mrj@aa.net Sun Mar 28 12:12:26 1999 Sun, 28 Mar 1999 10:11:37 -0800 Subject: RE: happy99 the happy 99 virus is detected by (at least) Mcafee version 3.0 engine witha current update. EVERYONE who is on the internet OR even just using e- mailneeds to have some kind of virus detection software on their computerperiod! -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: happy99 On Sat, 27 Mar 1999 BambooRods@aol.com wrote: Am I correct, email can not give one a virus as it is not an executablefile?One must download the file to have problems. I have had someone fromthelistemail me thinking they corrupted my system. Thoughts.doug Doug, I've had quite a bit of experience with Happy99 worm (virus) and althoughnot an expert on all virus I can say this from my own experiences aboutHappy99 which is a good one from the virus author's point of view.This isn't exhaustive, just what I've found. It dosn't seem to affect pre Win 95, win for workgroup and 3.1x are ok.It wont affect Macs.Wont affect Unix and Linux.The reason it dosn't affect Mac, and Unix et al is it just isn'tmultilingural as well as the fact the directorty structure iscompletely different to that used by X86 machines. I'm writing this using Linux so I'd see if you sent Happy99 as it wouldappear on my system as a seperate file of garbage. I didn't get a seperatefile of garbage from you so I'd say you may not have it but chech if youare concerned. Even if you have win95 on you may still not be affected if your emailreader dosn't automaticaly unencode email, most recent email readers*do*unencode automaticaly by default. This is why older ver of windows don't seem to have a problem with thisparticular virus as the software just writes the file to disk and you mustunencode the file manualy. Now for the really interesting bit and the reason it's just so devlishlytricky to guard against. If your reader does unencode automaticaly youwont know you have the virus ready to go. What happens is somebody getsHappy99 somehow, possibly they got it from somebody else whointentionaly interesting graphic file. I heard of a couple of people who actually*asked* for the file!Anyhow, you click the message, fireworks appear on the screen and yourwsock.dll file is hijacked and re-writen so when ever you send an emailmessage on a file called ska.exe goes with the email message. I'm unsureas to if Happy99.exe goes as well or if it's created from ska.exe, boththese files are bad guys as is the new ver of wsock.dll. The originalwsock.dll is copyed to a file called wsock.skaska.exe is (I think) the exe that starts the ball rolling and does nothave to specificaly run by you in any way other than clicking on an emailmessage. The tricky part is the actual file you click to cause all this to happenis just an email message *NOT* an attachment so how do you tell what itisto delete it?You don't unless you switch off auto unencode, then you'll see email inplain text along with all those damn anoying formating chars used thesedays to add emphasis to email *or* a screen full of garbage. The garbagemay be the virus in it's encoded form or a graphic file. If you know it'sa graphic all's well otherwise delete it. Forget the idea you can't get a virus just by reading email, it used to beso but 'tant no more in a realistic sense. The place I punch in at most days had a file sent in a mass emailing froman associate and got this virus, as did about 25 others across thecountry at the same time from this source. I removed the virus in themorning , then again that afternoon , then again the next daysimply because the others in the group either didn't know they had it orthought it wasn't a problem and kept emailing us.Happily this little guy dosn't *seem* to do any harm that is known of andis easy to find and destroy.Look at this address and bookmark it for future use: http://members.tripod.com/docsmiley/happy99.htm Doc offers this site free but requests you click on the little box at thebottom of the page so he earns 2 cents a hit, I have nothing to do withhim etc, etc but his page has saved my ar.e a few times. Sorry for the band width but I'm a bit evangalistic with this worm as I'vecome across it a few times now. Jerry, Please don't include this in the archives. Tony /***********************************************************************/Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb?A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Mar 28 12:18:02 1999 Subject: Re: Straightening -just after glue/binding Would be careful of leaving your tape on when gluing - if you examine theedges of the tape where you have cut it prior to gluing - you will see alittle glue residue and tape that sticks out from the edge. It will getbetween your strips - maybe cause problems. Never had that problem yet. The glue being squeezed out from betweenthe splines tends not to let anything get between them. I will keep an eye open for it in the future though. Darryl from bmayer@teleport.com Sun Mar 28 12:23:08 1999 0000 (216.26.6.71) Subject: Re: scrapers-setup and usage Turbotrk@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 99-03-27 09:39:17 EST, you write: scrapers. I have the advantage of working with Ed Hartzell in cane. Heusesa scraper made from a heavy duty hacksaw blade. The one I bought fromTravers is 1/16" thick and 1 1/2X19". It is very very hard steel. I cut a6" piece off using the edge of the coarse grinding wheel (hacksaw bladesand files just bounce off this stuff). After grinding off the teeth, takingcare not to overheat it, the scraping edges are ground on a finer wheelwith the tool rest set at the apex of the wheel thus giving a subtlehollowgrind. One also needs to dress the sides on a stone or wheel, the shinierthe better. After hollow grinding one edge has a slight burr and theotheris a little more blunt. The blunt edge takes a finer shaving, but eitherside works well if all that is needed is a few thousandths.Echoing what has been said here earlier this week, this is a) very simplewith little expense b) once set up this scraper will last one heckuvalongtime and I still have 13" of hacksaw to make two more and c) doesn'trequire depth setting or tuning a scraper plane. The downside? It isn'tnearly as attractive as a Lie Nielsen.Barr >> Barry please tell more. What kind of jig are you using to hold the blade.What kind of hack saw blade are you talking about. Please let me know.Iknow there has to be a better way then spending 200 on a lie nelson thanks in advance. stuart miller Stuart, the blade is from Travers Tool Co. 800-522-1111, try ext 2278.Andreawill answer. Tell her I sent you. They are a great company with awonderfulcatalog. Their response is prompt, and they always seem to have what islistedin the catalog. The blade I ordered is 26-301-360 and is on page 403. Thepriceis $8.55. I don't use any kind of jig. Just hold the scraper in your hand. Iusethe Garrison method of setting up my form with a scrap strip to get agrossapproximation of the final dimensions. Then I plane to the form, bind andmeasure flats. I tweak the form, plane and measure again. When I amwithin.005-.008 I use the scraper at the stations that are over by this amount. Itisvery easy to control the size of the shaving. I might make two or threepasseswith the scraper on each side of the strips that are over before going tothenext strip.Barry from rclarke@eou.edu Sun Mar 28 13:51:39 1999 12:00:19 -0800 "RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: RE: Straightening -just after glue/binding Sir D, et al, I use the same method and have not had the problem with the tape either. I never consideredit would be an issue with the glue moving out from the center of the rod. Iwill also keepan eye out for it. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Straightening -just after glue/binding Would be careful of leaving your tape on when gluing - if you examine theedges of the tape where you have cut it prior to gluing - you will see alittle glue residue and tape that sticks out from the edge. It will getbetween your strips - maybe cause problems. Never had that problem yet. The glue being squeezed out from betweenthe splines tends not to let anything get between them. I will keep an eye open for it in the future though. Darryl from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Sun Mar 28 14:16:15 1999 with SMTP(MDaemon.v2.7.SP6i.R) for ; Sun, 28 Mar1999 15:17:00 -0500 Subject: New Version of Wayne's Taper Program Does anyone know where I can download the latest version of WayneCattanach's Taper Program? I had it once, but lost it. Thanks Joe from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Mar 28 14:28:34 1999 Subject: Re: scrapers-setup and usage I know there has to be a better way then spending 200 on a lie nelson Go to any woodcrafting store (or Woodcraft - www.woodcraft.com) andget a cabinet scraper. They go for $6.50. A cabinet scraper is arectangular flat piece of metal. You burnish the edge to form amicro hook and then draw it along your bamboo spline with itcanted forward a few degrees. Drawback to a cabinet scraper isit follows the humps and dips of the spline, where a plane bodiedscraper will scrape it flat - taking off the top of the humps andleaving the dips until everything is flat. Darryl from brewer@teleport.com Sun Mar 28 14:41:08 1999 0000 (216.26.32.197) 0800 Subject: FW: CERT Advisory CA-99.04 - Melissa Macro Virus This is not related to rodmaking, but verified facts are the best way to reduce the messages and concerns about potential virus attacks. Here is the straight scoop on this virus from the Carnegie Mellon Software Engineering Institute. It is a word macro type virus and can infect your system if you open the attached word document. This type of virus is not particularly damaging to an individual system, but can cause excessive e-mail traffic as it attempts to spread, and it can make your system vulnerable to future attacks by modifying your normal.dot template. Readon if you are interested... I hope this helps. Randy Brewer -----Original Message----- Subject: CERT Advisory CA-99.04 - Melissa Macro Virus -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- CERT Advisory CA-99-04-Melissa-Macro-Virus Original issue date: Saturday March 27 1999Last Revised: Saturday March 27, 1999 Systems Affected * Machines with Microsoft Word 97 or Word 2000* Any mail handling system could experience performance problems ora denial of service as a result of the propagation of this macrovirus. Overview At approximately 2:00 PM GMT-5 on Friday March 26 1999 we beganreceiving reports of a Microsoft Word 97 and Word 2000 macro viruswhich is propagating via email attachments. The number and variety ofreports we have received indicate that this is a widespread attackaffecting a variety of sites. Our analysis of this macro virus indicates that human action (in theform of a user opening an infected Word document) is required for thisvirus to propagate. It is possible that under some mailerconfigurations, a user might automatically open an infected documentreceived in the form of an email attachment. This macro virus is notknown to exploit any new vulnerabilities. While the primary transportmechanism of this virus is via email, any way of transferring filescan also propagate the virus. Anti-virus software vendors have called this macro virus the Melissamacro or W97M_Melissa virus. I. Description The Melissa macro virus propagates in the form of an email messagecontaining an infected Word document as an attachment. The transportmessage has most frequently been reported to contain the followingSubject header Subject: Important Message from Where is the full name of the user sending the message. The body of the message is a multipart MIME message containing twosections. The first section of the message (Content-Type: text/plain)contains the following text. Here is that document you asked for ... don't show anyone else ;-) The next section (Content-Type: application/msword) was initiallyreported to be a document called "list.doc". This document containsreferences to pornographic web sites. As this macro virus spreads weare likely to see documents with other names. In fact, under certainconditions the virus may generate attachments with documents created When a user opens an infected .doc file with Microsoft Word97 orWord2000, the macro virus is immediately executed if macros areenabled. Upon execution, the virus first lowers the macro security settings topermit all macros to run when documents are opened in the future.Therefore, the user will not be notified when the virus is executed inthe future. The macro then checks to see if the registry key "HKEY_Current_User\Software\Microsoft\Office\Melissa?" has a value of "... by Kwyjibo". If that registry key does not existor does not have a value of "... by Kwyjibo", the virus proceeds topropagate itself by sending an email message in the format describedabove to the first 50 entries in every MAPI address book readable bythe user executing the macro. Keep in mind that if any of these emailaddresses are mailing lists, the message will be delivered to everyoneon the mailing lists. In order to successfully propagate, the affectedmachine must have Microsoft Outlook installed; however, Outlook doesnot need to be the mailer used to read the message. Next, the macro virus sets the value of the registry key to "... byKwyjibo". Setting this registry key causes the virus to only propagateonce per session. If the registry key does not persist throughsessions, the virus will propagate as described above once per everysession when a user opens an infected document. If the registry keypersists through sessions, the virus will no longer attempt topropagate even if the affected user opens an infected document. The macro then infects the Normal.dot template file. By default, allWord documents utilize the Normal.dot template; thus, any newlycreated Word document will be infected. Because unpatched versions ofWord97 may trust macros in templates the virus may execute withoutwarning. For more information please see: http://www.microsoft.com/security/bulletins/ms99-002.asp Finally, if the minute of the hour matches the day of the month atthis point, the macro inserts into the current document the message"Twenty-two points, plus triple-word-score, plus fifty points forusing all my letters. Game's over. I'm outta here." Note that if you open an infected document with macros disabled andlook at the list of macros in this document, neither Word97 norWord2000 list the macro. The code is actually VBA (Visual Basic forApplications) code associated with the "document.open" method. You cansee the code by going into the Visual Basic editor. If you receive one of these messages, keep in mind that the messagecame from someone who is affected by this virus and they are notnecessarily targeting you. We encourage you to contact any users fromwhich you have received such a message. Also, we are interested inunderstanding the scope of this activity; therefore, we wouldappreciate if you would report any instance of this activity to usaccording to our Incident Reporting Guidelines document available at: http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/incident_reporting.html II. Impact * Users who open an infected document in Word97 or Word2000 withmacros enabled will infect the Normal.dot template causing anydocuments referencing this template to be infected with this macrovirus. If the infected document is opened by another user, thedocument, including the macro virus, will propagate. Note thatthis could cause the user's document to be propagated instead ofthe original document, and thereby leak sensitive information. * Indirectly, this virus could cause a denial of service on mailservers. Many large sites have reported performance problems withtheir mail servers as a result of the propagation of this virus. III. Solutions * Block messages with the signature of this virus at your mail transferagents. With Sendmail Nick Christenson of sendmail.com provided information aboutconfiguring sendmail to filter out messages that may contain theMelissa virus. This information is available from the follow URL:ftp://ftp.cert.org/pub/cert_advisories/Patches/CA- 99-04-sendmail-melissa-filter.txt * Utilize virus scanners Most virus scanning tools will detect and clean macro viruses. Inorder to detect and clean current viruses you must keep yourscanning tools up to date with the latest definition files. + McAfee / Network Associates http://vil.mcafee.com/vil/vm10120.asp http://www.avertlabs.com/public/datafiles/valerts/vinfo/melis sa.asp + Symantec http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/mailissa.html + Trend Micro http://housecall.antivirus.com/smex_housecall/technotes.html * Encourage users at your site to disable macros in Microsoft Word Notify all of your users of the problem and encourage them todisable macros in Word. You may also wish to encourage users todisable macros in any product that contains a macro language asthis sort of problem is not limited to Microsoft Word. In Word97 you can disable automatic macro execution (clickTools/Options/General then turn on the 'Macro virus protection'checkbox). In Word2000 macro execution is controlled by a securitylevel variable similar to Internet Explorer (click onTools/Macro/Security and choose High, Medium, or Low). In thatcase, 'High' silently ignores the VBA code, Medium prompts in theway Word97 does to let you enable or disable the VBA code, and'Low' just runs it. Word2000 supports Authenticode on the VB code. In the 'High'setting you can specify sites that you trust and code from thosesites will run. * General protection from Word Macro Viruses to review the document "Free Macro AntiVirus Techniques" by ChengiJimmy Kuo which is available at. http://www.nai.com/services/support/vr/free.asp Acknowledgements We would like to thank Jimmy Kuo of Network Associates, Eric Allmanand Nick Christenson of sendmail.com, Dan Schrader of Trend Micro, andJason Garms and Karan Khanna of Microsoft for providing informationused in this advisory. Additionally we would like to thank the many sites who reported thisactivity. ______________________________________________________________________ This document is available from:http://www.cert.org/advisories/CA-99-04- Melissa-Macro-Virus.html. ______________________________________________________________________ CERT/CC Contact Information Email: cert@cert.orgPhone: +1 412-268-7090 (24-hour hotline)Fax: +1 412- 268-6989Postal address:CERT Coordination CenterSoftware Engineering InstituteCarnegie Mellon UniversityPittsburgh PA 15213-3890U.S.A. CERT personnel answer the hotline 08:00-20:00 EST(GMT-5) / EDT(GMT- 4)Monday through Friday; they are on call for emergencies during otherhours, on U.S. holidays, and on weekends. Using encryption We strongly urge you to encrypt sensitive information sent by email.Our public PGP key is available from http://www.cert.org/CERT_PGP.key.If you prefer to use DES, please call the CERT hotline for moreinformation. Getting security information CERT publications and other security information are available fromour web site http://www.cert.org/. To be added to our mailing list for advisories and bulletins, sendemail to cert- advisory-request@cert.org and include SUBSCRIBEyour-email-address in the subject of your message. Copyright 1999 Carnegie Mellon University.Conditions for use, disclaimers, and sponsorship information can befound in http://www.cert.org/legal_stuff.html. * "CERT" and "CERT Coordination Center" are registered in the U.S.Patent and Trademark Office ______________________________________________________________________ NO WARRANTYAny material furnished by Carnegie Mellon University and the SoftwareEngineering Institute is furnished on an "as is" basis. CarnegieMellon University makes no warranties of any kind, either expressed orimplied as to any matter including, but not limited to, warranty offitness for a particular purpose or merchantability, exclusivity orresults obtained from use of the material. Carnegie Mellon Universitydoes not make any warranty of any kind with respect to freedom frompatent, trademark, or copyright infringement. ______________________________________________________________________ Revision History -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNvy9H3VP+x0t4w7BAQG1ggP7B8ItzTRpkP2O8JK7olIOdmn072PIZZxEmJDW+A9fLDvRZQlVDSsFz/aH8ivmhor5ZbvtT14OmfIZWvxYdFnbO/s2WYL7+fV5jL6mSb4AJ6lRXIYii+t22V0lvqJdP6VRFqy9EibpMtU2dhgFYf3TKX5e6wajOmBxbZ6Ef5jPilA==aABH- ----END PGP SIGNATURE----- from HARMS1@prodigy.net Sun Mar 28 15:08:01 1999 Sun, 28 Mar 1999 16:07:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Cork rings adhesion - Pt. 2 =_NextPart_000_01BE7934.DC16E1E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE7934.DC16E1E0 Not I. I can't see how that could happen, unless the cork rings had beenbored greatly oversized. Or unless the surface of the blank had somehowbecome contaminated with an oily or waxy substance. For safe measure, Ialways rough the surface of the cane with 60-grit sandpaper before gluingthe cork rings. Cheers, Bill ----------From: Roger Cotner Subject: Cork rings adhesion - Pt. 2Date: Saturday, March 27, 1999 11:20 AM Has anyone had the grip loosen from the blank with Titebond II?Regards,Roger CotnerGrand Haven, Michigan-- ----=_NextPart_000_01BE7934.DC16E1E0 see how that could happen, unless the cork rings had been bored greatly = always rough the surface of the cane with 60-grit sandpaper before = = =Michigan ------=_NextPart_000_01BE7934.DC16E1E0-- from dickay@alltel.net Sun Mar 28 16:07:17 1999 forged)) QAA20123; Subject: Re: New Version of Wayne's Taper Program Joe, Try this: http://cyber.wmis.net/~cattanac/ Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net ----- Original Message ----- Subject: New Version of Wayne's Taper Program Does anyone know where I can download the latest version of WayneCattanach's Taper Program? I had it once, but lost it. Thanks Joe from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sun Mar 28 16:13:44 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Sun, 28 Mar 1999 16:13:34 -0600 Subject: Re: New Version of Wayne's Taper Program Joe,Try this address: http://cyber.wmis.net/~cattanac/ Bookmark it, thentake a minute to thank Wayne.HTH,Harry Boyd from djk762@hotmail.com Sun Mar 28 20:43:20 1999 Sun, 28 Mar 1999 18:43:25 PST Subject: J.C. Boegman lathe, Tuxedo Cane Has anyone had experience with J.C. Boegman's micro lathe? Reccomendany attatchments?Have any of you folks bought cane from tuxedo cane in stockton Ca.?Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Mar 28 21:20:26 1999 cotner@novagate.com,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Re: Cork rings adhesion - Pt. 2 To all,What's happened to Pliobond for glueing cork? As I have a lifetimesupply Ihaven't been looking for alternatives-I'll have to try Titebond II. Most ofthe epoxy's I've tried set up too fast to clamp easily and leave a glue line.Just an old fella's $.02Hank W. from rsgould@cmc.net Sun Mar 28 23:09:36 1999 Subject: Gluing and straightening Hi all,I've been reading the correspondence as to how to straighten a freshlyglued up rod and thought you might like to hear about another gadget tohelp in this pursuit. As I recall I first heard of this from Tom Fulk andhave since built my own " Tensioner". Basically it's a 6ft long steelchannel similar to "unistrut" that has two jacobs chucks mounted onwoodenblocks and are facing each other. The wood blocks and their respectivechucks may be fastened down at a number of positions along the channel.Thechucks are each mounted on a 5/16" threaded steel rod 10" long whichpassesthrough the wooden mounting block and can be moved laterally by means ofnuts and washers on the threaded rod. The newly glued up rod section isrunthrough the 4 string binder and immediately placed in the two chucks ofthetensioner. The chucks are tightened to hold the rod section firmly and thentension is applied by tightening the nuts on the threaded rods. Theadvantage of this simple device is that it is easy to sight down one flatof the rod and then to take out any twist by simply rotating one of thechucks. It works like a charm. I have a couple photos of this if necessaryto clarify the details.Ray from maxs@geocities.co.jp Mon Mar 29 00:13:22 1999 bysv01.geocities.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W) with ESMTP id PAA21284 for; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 15:13:19 +0900 (JST) mail.geocities.co.jp (1.3G-8.9.3/GeocitiesJ-3.0) with ESMTP id PAA06107for; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 15:13:17 +0900 (JST) Subject: [Fwd: Straightening -just after glue/binding] 2B81138F39AB90DC11007979" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 2B81138F39AB90DC11007979 --------------2B81138F39AB90DC11007979 Subject: Re: Straightening -just after glue/binding Don, Thanks for response.I thought that the curve left on my blank after whacking might be caused As suggested by someone, when taping closely, a blank should bestraight. Ifeel it is more difficult to tape a blank straight than straighten theblank after binding. Closer taping will weaken the effect of whacking when curvature was already implemented on a blank, it's aparadox to support the blank straight when binding. I want to try to whack the blank afterremoving all the tapes. I hope itwillwork better in whacking and waving. Your advise of leaving tape on blank is vital. It almost happened. Max Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: Max, Pleased you like the whacking idea - been using it for about 10 years orso- don't know where or why I first started doing it - tried dropping theblank onto a smooth surface to start with and found out that it justdidn'tget enough force into things. Attempted to really whack the blank ontothesurface and found that the blank would occasionally rebound and stillleavea curve in it - found that by holding the butt with 2 fingers and makingthe blank fall onto a smooth surface gave about the best results.If you roll your blank onto a surface you will tend to equalize the bindingcord tensions a little. I use a piece of what is called " butcher paper" (a brown type of paper waxed on one side that meat cutters use forwrappingof meat) wax side upwards to glue and whack the blank on. The waxallowseasy cleanup between butt and tip glue sessions - disposes easily aftergluing is done.Would be careful of leaving your tape on when gluing - if you examine theedges of the tape where you have cut it prior to gluing - you will see alittle glue residue and tape that sticks out from the edge. It will getbetween your strips - maybe cause problems. take care, Don At 09:28 PM 3/28/99 +0900, you wrote:Hello all, I was so curious of a new method of straightening, ,whacking the gluedblank, and tried it today.After binding 8 blanks by EZ binder using Shell Epon (thick staff!), Iwhacked theblanks on the flat table.When I looked through the blanks after it, the blank was almost straightbut at the location of one third of the blanks, especially tip blankshad a slow curvature remained and it was hard to correct it. Then, I took one of the tip blanks and tried to wave it. Though Ialready realized how the strips movearound when I bend at butt section when, as Sir D suggested, maskingtapes were put every 4 inches on a blank, exactly same movementhappenedon the blank when I did same after I bound the blanks with thread.Holding a blank (tip is more typical) with both hand with 1 ft lengthapart, try to face onesurface upward and bend the length of holding like when a rod is pulled An interesting thing is that another blank portion will move indifferent direction to the orignial bend, and then a little apartfurther, waves to reverse, like a snake, but it tried to movevertically. (this becomes important later, remembe this). Next interesting thing is that when I tried to move a blank as above,the blank tended not to moveup and down straightly, but tried to move twisted when the portion wastwisted. I felt such stress on my hands. As I used EZ binder, thetention of right turn and left turn were different since EZ binder isdrived by left hand, manually. ( I like EZ binder very much andcontinue to use it, it's convenient.) What I realized are;Twist of the blank was caused by binding and kept twisted with theforceof binding thread tention.It is difficult to correct the bend or twist while the thread tention isforcing them on a blank.While keep waving the same flat up and down at the center of bothhandsseveral times (more than 5 times), the upper (and opposite) surface ofthe blank tend to line up on the same flat. the blank, I could make one surface with no twist, though bend isremained. Thus twist could be get rid of the blank.After that, rolling the non-twisted blank on the flat table produced astraight blank. My analysis is that whacking is somehow doing the similar effect towaving at some portion of the blank though uncouscious of the portion.Waving seems to adjust the location of each of the stripsautomatically,especially vertically. When the tention of binder thread is different,keep bending up and down and try to control the possible twistmovementas straight as possible. Try this next time. Max -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod --------------2B81138F39AB90DC11007979-- from maxs@geocities.co.jp Mon Mar 29 00:24:55 1999 bysv01.geocities.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W) with ESMTP id PAA02846; Mon, 29Mar 1999 15:24:51+0900 (JST) mail.geocities.co.jp (1.3G-8.9.3/GeocitiesJ-3.0) with ESMTP id PAA18355;Mon, 29 Mar 199915:24:50 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Gluing and straightening Ray, Would you please upload the photos of the gadget onto somewhere?I am curious of anything which straithten a rod.Thanks for your post. Max Ray Gould wrote: Hi all,I've been reading the correspondence as to how to straighten a freshlyglued up rod and thought you might like to hear about another gadget tohelp in this pursuit. As I recall I first heard of this from Tom Fulk andhave since built my own " Tensioner". Basically it's a 6ft long steelchannel similar to "unistrut" that has two jacobs chucks mounted onwoodenblocks and are facing each other. The wood blocks and their respectivechucks may be fastened down at a number of positions along the channel.Thechucks are each mounted on a 5/16" threaded steel rod 10" long whichpassesthrough the wooden mounting block and can be moved laterally by meansofnuts and washers on the threaded rod. The newly glued up rod section isrunthrough the 4 string binder and immediately placed in the two chucks ofthetensioner. The chucks are tightened to hold the rod section firmly andthentension is applied by tightening the nuts on the threaded rods. Theadvantage of this simple device is that it is easy to sight down one flatof the rod and then to take out any twist by simply rotating one of thechucks. It works like a charm. I have a couple photos of this if necessaryto clarify the details.Ray -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod from chris@artistree.com Mon Mar 29 00:27:08 1999 Subject: Re: Gluing and straightening mac-creator="4D4F5353" Oh Great...another tool to build! Just kidding Ray. This sounds like it wouldbe very useful and I'm flipping through catalogs looking for deals onchucksright now. Just one question, is there a vertical (up and down) adjustmentbuilt into the mounting blocks to help level off the blank in between thechucks? Seems like it would be difficult to get the height of the chucks"right-on" over 6 feet...or maybe not. Thanks for sharing. :) --Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com Ray Gould wrote: Hi all,I've been reading the correspondence as to how to straighten a freshlyglued up rod and thought you might like to hear about another gadget tohelp in this pursuit. As I recall I first heard of this from Tom Fulk and from maxs@geocities.co.jp Mon Mar 29 03:28:29 1999 bysv01.geocities.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W) with ESMTP id SAA19914; Mon, 29Mar 1999 18:28:21+0900 (JST) mail.geocities.co.jp (1.3G-8.9.3/GeocitiesJ-3.0) with ESMTP id SAA08821;Mon, 29 Mar 199918:28:19 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Straightening -just after glue/binding Darryl, SalarFly@aol.com wrote: As I used EZ binder, thetention of right turn and left turn were different since EZ binder isdrived by left hand, manually. ( I like EZ binder very much andcontinue to use it, it's convenient.) Another reason I use fishing monofilament to bind my rods. Themono stretches a little as it is wrapped on, and because it canslip a little on the blank (slicker surface than cotton thread), thetension tends to equalize. This seems to be a good idea. Wrapping over the tape tends to get rid of the short kinks andtwists, but the long sweeping curves are still there. That's wherewhacking helps. You do have to make an attempt to keep theblank straight as you put the tape on. A crooked blank with tapeon will still be crooked even if you wrap over the tape. With morethread tension one way than the other, I don't know if anything willeliminate a twist in that case. It is true that the binder tention need to be equal and should reserve alittle room for adjusting strips locations. Wrap over the tapes should also be careful, if one can make a blank asstraight as possible when taping, it will help keeping the blank to bebound straight by thread. But if the blank is not straight enough whentaping,tapes tend to stick over the strips and try to prevent each strips slip Max-- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod from RZBG79A@prodigy.com Mon Mar 29 07:14:45 1999 IAA18988 forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 08:10:51 - 0500 Subject: Stuart Kirkfield Can anyone tell me the Email adress for Mr. Kirkfield?Craig from jhewitt@cmn.net Mon Mar 29 07:44:37 1999 Subject: Re: Stuart Kirkfield DR CRAIG P ADAMS wrote: Can anyone tell me the Email adress for Mr. Kirkfield?Craig You can reach Stuart at: finanplanr@aol.com John from jclove@cysource.com Mon Mar 29 09:52:52 1999 Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:52:11 -0600 Subject: Re: Stuart Kirkfield mac-creator="4D4F5353" Another address: Jeff from plantboy@siu.edu Mon Mar 29 13:14:41 1999 Subject: Cork ring adhesion parts 1, 2, & now 3 List, Thanks to all who replied on and off list. Great suggestions, I must saythat most of the responses favored the use of Titebond II. Results: I spent most of the day yesterday shaping the grips (which I glued upFridaynight with Titebond II). The titebond worked well, but it did leave a fewspots of glue, even after shaping, where the rings are bonded together. Arethere any suggestions for my future grips on how to eliminate thisproblem? Thanks again for all your input. Eric AdamsDept. of Plant BiologySIUCCarbondale, IL 62901 To a fisherman, the truth is "what you have to tell when you can't think ofa good lie" from saweiss@flash.net Mon Mar 29 14:44:27 1999 Subject: Re: Cork ring adhesion parts 1, 2, & now 3 Eric,When gueing the rings, place each ring in position then put a small amountof glue near the center of the ring. I don't coat the whole ring. If you getitright, a minimium, if any, glue will seep out when you compress all ofthem together and you will minimize the joint lines as well. Jack Howelldescribes the process in his book.Steve List, Thanks to all who replied on and off list. Great suggestions, I must saythat most of the responses favored the use of Titebond II. Results: I spent most of the day yesterday shaping the grips (which I glued upFridaynight with Titebond II). The titebond worked well, but it did leave a fewspots of glue, even after shaping, where the rings are bonded together.Arethere any suggestions for my future grips on how to eliminate thisproblem? Thanks again for all your input. Eric AdamsDept. of Plant BiologySIUCCarbondale, IL 62901 To a fisherman, the truth is "what you have to tell when you can't think ofa good lie" from rmoon@ida.net Mon Mar 29 14:51:34 1999 0000 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: New Version of Wayne's Taper Program Harry. I down loaded the program and when I try to open it, I get errormessage saying athere was an error processing the page. The program maybe damaged. Any ideas?? Ralph from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Mar 29 15:30:15 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Mon, 29 Mar 1999 15:30:08 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: New Version of Wayne's Taper Program Ralph,I'm probably not the best guy to ask. Last time I considered myselfcomputer literate was back in the late 80's, working in machine languageonan old two-floppy disk IBM clone.I went back to the page, and noticed Wayne has pulled the programs. Idon't know what that means. He may have beceome irritated with me forposting that address to the list, even though he has posted it himself inthe past. I would first suggest contacting him at WayneCatt@aol.com --Ifthat doesn't work (sometimes it doesn't, I know) I could try to send youtheprogram as an email attachment. That would get large and timeconsuming.But I'm willing to try if you are.As a third option, send me your address and I'll snail mail a copy ofthe program to you on a disk.Wish I could be more help,Harry Ralph W Moon wrote: Harry. I down loaded the program and when I try to open it, I get errormessage saying athere was an error processing the page. The programmaybe damaged. Any ideas?? Ralph from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Mar 29 15:46:52 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: New Version of Wayne's Taper Program The last message was meant to be private, for Ralph. Sorry if I offendedanyone. Some day I'll learn to check the address before I hit "send". Harry from cattanac@wmis.net Mon Mar 29 17:44:12 1999 mail4.wmis.net (8.8.8/SCO5)with SMTP id SAA28018 for ; Mon, 29 Mar Subject: Re: New Version of Wayne's Taper Program Just a couple of things -First - I deleted HexRod98 from my WMIS site to correct a few bugbeforetoo many copies of it got out - soon to return - not trying to keep it fromanyone - just fixes like the weight of the heavier lines and such. Secondly - there is a Design.pdf file there that is to test whether it wascreated right - BUT - it still lacks the illustrations that should go withit - soon to be done - this is the GraphSpeak that I have promised to sendto quite a few list members. Third - I got a letter today from David Shamhart - the winner of Maker'sRod98 - He write to thank all those that were involved with the project andtoshare how he has come to realize the specialness of what he won. I havebeenwriting this letter to David for some time now - it shares with him mypersonal insights and impressions of the individuals Fourth - A progress report of misc issues - This week the daytime temp issupposed to hit 72 - perhaps this means that fishing by the opener in Aprilmight be good - perhaps it won't matter to the group that is journeying toGrayrock - there still may be some floor space available - RSVP notrequired.Then ahead to June - If you wish to own an original David Ruimveld -there will be one available this year at auction at TTBBBQ V - Not to beconfused with the Maker's Rod 00 print for next year. The image as Iunderstand it will be that of Dave's brown trout ( from 00 print) - chasingabrook trout ( perhaps Larry's from 98) - jesting had it that the sequencecould then be Larry's Bald Eagle - clamping down on Dave's brown trout(year01) - then Dave's Jack Pine shootgunning Larry's Eagle (tastes a bit likeLoon) from the sky ( year 03) - perhaps you can detect the friendlycompetition here. Images will be shared as they become available. Alsoremember the Team Grayrock - 45 minute flyrod. from mschaffer@mindspring.com Mon Mar 29 20:20:59 1999 Subject: pdf file reader-help needed Sorry guys for taking up this bandwidth( but it really does have somerelevance). A bit ago, I think it was Chris Bogart, mentioned a locationwhere we could download software to read pdf files. Does anyone have thelocation info? If I had Chris' address, I wouldn't bother the list. Hope you can overlook this transgression, Mike Docmschaffer@mindspring.com from ccurrojr@mindspring.com Mon Mar 29 20:53:10 1999 Subject: Re: pdf file reader-help needed http://www.adobe.com/prodindex/acrobat/readstep.html from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Mon Mar 29 21:10:31 1999 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1998.03.08.20.27)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, Subject: RE: pdf file reader-help needed Hi Mike, The reader is made by Adobe. Just point your browser to http://www.adobe.com What you want to download is the Acrobat reader. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu shafferSent: Monday, March 29, 1999 9:06 PM Subject: pdf file reader-help needed Sorry guys for taking up this bandwidth( but it really does have somerelevance). A bit ago, I think it was Chris Bogart, mentioned a locationwhere we could download software to read pdf files. Does anyone havethelocation info? If I had Chris' address, I wouldn't bother the list. Hope you can overlook this transgression, Mike Docmschaffer@mindspring.com from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Mon Mar 29 21:44:25 1999 Subject: Re: pdf file reader-help needed Adobe's website. Regards, Bob On Mon, 29 Mar 1999, michael w shaffer wrote: Sorry guys for taking up this bandwidth( but it really does have somerelevance). A bit ago, I think it was Chris Bogart, mentioned a locationwhere we could download software to read pdf files. Does anyone havethelocation info? If I had Chris' address, I wouldn't bother the list. Hope you can overlook this transgression, Mike Docmschaffer@mindspring.com from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Mon Mar 29 22:41:50 1999 (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Kirkfield Book boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0035_01BE7A24.E90E6A80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01BE7A24.E90E6A80 Did anybody receive theirs, yet? George Bourke ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01BE7A24.E90E6A80 Did anybody receive theirs, =yet? George =Bourke ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01BE7A24.E90E6A80-- from rg-fish@home.com Mon Mar 29 23:01:13 1999 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA19671;Mon, 29 Mar 1999 21:01:05 -0800 "Rodmakers Rodmakers Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Kirkfield Book boundary="----=_NextPart_000_009F_01BE7A27.2C115840" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_009F_01BE7A27.2C115840 I received mine last week. This is just a magnificent book. Superb =quality printing and packed with information on every page.Renny Sent: Monday, March 29, 1999 8:44 PMSubject: Kirkfield Book Did anybody receive theirs, yet? George Bourke ------=_NextPart_000_009F_01BE7A27.2C115840 with information on every page.Renny ----- Original Message ----- irish-george Rodmakers = Sent: Monday, March 29, 1999 = PMSubject: Kirkfield Book Did anybody receive theirs, =yet? Bourke ------=_NextPart_000_009F_01BE7A27.2C115840-- from chris@artistree.com Tue Mar 30 01:22:16 1999 Subject: Re: Kirkfield Book mac-creator="4D4F5353" Also, received mine a few weeks ago, finally filling that big hole in mylibrary. Renny is right...excellent printing and binding job and thebook is loaded with clear, concise information. --Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com irish-george wrote: Did anybody receive theirs, yet? George Bourke from mschaffer@mindspring.com Tue Mar 30 06:26:43 1999 Subject: Thanks Thanks to all who sent me the url for the Adobe download. I think itdownloaded ok, now to give it a test flight! Mike Docmschaffer@mindspring.com from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Mar 30 06:50:57 1999 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Kirkfield Book In a message dated 3/29/99 10:45:50 PM, irish- george@worldnet.att.netwrote: Did anybody receive theirs, yet? George Bourke ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- byair-zb02.mail.aol.com (v58.16) with SMTP; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 23:45:50 - 0500 with ESMTP id XAA18779; Not me but I got an e-mail from him yesterday that mine is going out thisweek. Seems he is waiting for our checks to clear.Bret from maxs@geocities.co.jp Tue Mar 30 07:27:11 1999 bysv01.geocities.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W) with ESMTP id WAA25691; Tue, 30Mar 1999 22:27:05+0900 (JST) mail.geocities.co.jp (1.3G-8.9.3/GeocitiesJ-3.0) with ESMTP idWAA28600; Tue, 30 Mar 199922:27:04 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Kirkfield Book George san, I received Stuart's book today. Max irish-george wrote: Did anybody receive theirs, yet? George Bourke -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Tue Mar 30 07:49:44 1999 Subject: Re: New Version of Wayne's Taper Program Ralph,If you haven't already got Hexrod 98 working I remember that when Ifirst down loaded it, I tried to unzip and open it incorrectly. Afterthe files are unzipped there is an installation file which properly setsup the directory and installs the program in windows. I had tocompletely delete it from my files and download it again and proceedproperly. Wayne has done a top notch job of putting this together. Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net FB>Ralph,FB> I'm probably not the best guy to ask. Last time I considered myselfFB>computer literate was back in the late 80's, working in machinelanguage onFB>an old two-floppy disk IBM clone.FB> I went back to the page, and noticed Wayne has pulled the programs. IFB>don't know what that means. He may have beceome irritated with meforFB>posting that address to the list, even though he has posted it himselfinFB>the past. I would first suggest contacting him at WayneCatt@aol.com -- IfFB>that doesn't work (sometimes it doesn't, I know) I could try to send youtheFB>program as an email attachment. That would get large and timeconsuming.FB>But I'm willing to try if you are.FB> As a third option, send me your address and I'll snail mail a copy ofFB>the program to you on a disk.FB> Wish I could be more help,FB> Harry FB>Ralph W Moon wrote: FB>> Harry. I down loaded the program and when I try to open it, I geterrorFB>> message saying athere was an error processing the page. Theprogram mayFB>> be damaged. Any ideas??FB>>FB>> Ralph from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Tue Mar 30 08:37:06 1999 SMTP(Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.3d1); Tue, 30 Mar 1999 09:37:54 - 0500 Subject: Varnish over Epoxy boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0033_01BE7A91.EED16720" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BE7A91.EED16720 I know a while back there was some discussion about using epoxy finishes= Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod Company)140 E. Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) 277-4510www.munrorodco.com ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BE7A91.EED16720 I know a while back there wassome = curious if anyone had tried this, and if so, did you overcoat the epoxy = Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod = Spencer St.Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 or (607) =277- 4510www.munrorodco.com ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BE7A91.EED16720-- from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us Tue Mar 30 17:20:41 1999 (envelope- from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us) 1.21);30 Mar 99 18:22:56 EST EST Subject: Rod Markings Hello All, I sent in my monthly posting during one of those periods when you justaren't sure anyone gotyour message. So at the risk of making my idols angry, here it is again. Just rec. BBFR in the mail. The first letter from a gentleman in Swedenmade some pointsthat I thought were very interesting. He notes that when using someone else'staper on your rod,some type of notation could be mentioned to give credit where credit is due.Since I have notbuilt my first bamboo from scratch yet, I was wondering... Does anybody do this? What info do yousupply on the rod? Are you consistent with every piece you build? I haverefinished a few rods,trying to keep them in original condition. Now suppose I did such a nice job (I saidsuppose!) that noone could tell it was refinished. In theory, I could put it on the market as aMint/Unfished rod more $$$ than it is really worth. Am I obligated to make a little notationon the rod tomention "Refinished by J. Mulvey, Jan. 1999" or should I leave it as is? How aboutturning a 3 pc 9wt Montague into a 2 pc 5 wt banty. Now there are no markings. Do I have theright to mark thisas I wish? I think not! With the year 2000 on the horizon, does anyone marktheir rods with thedate? Two digits or four? Come the next century, when your creations are 100years old, some folkswill be wondering if your beauty was created in 1899 or 1999. So... How do youmark your rods? On a side note, concerning that excellent magazine, I had an idea thatsomeone may want topass on to the Honorable Mr Metcalfe. How about a centerfold? A three pagefold out of someones handiwork up close and personal. The little 2"x3" photos of rods do nojustice at all! Have a great day,Joe MulveyJoseph Mulvey Network Engineer Information Technology Department City Of Newton, MA 1000 Commonwealth Avenue Newton Centre, MA 02459 Phone 617-552-7085 Fax 617-552-7036 from rmoon@ida.net Tue Mar 30 17:40:20 1999 Subject: Re: Rod Markings My God Joe I am not Y2K Compliant Ralph from gaff@carol.net Tue Mar 30 18:37:17 1999 Subject: final forms hey guys,finished filing my final forms last night.boy, did they look great.i sat there with a bud lite just looking for an hour. this morning i set up a taper and checked it with using the drill bitsper chris bogard.the readings i got were 3 to 5 thousandths different between a .1250 bit and a .1400 . does this mean my groove is not a true 60*. if so, what can i do to correct this. would appreciate any all suggestions.wil from pmartino@fvcc.cc.mt.us Tue Mar 30 19:57:37 1999 Subject: Trim the pith apex prior to gluing? Dear list members, I am at the point of gluing up my first rod section. I am unsure as to the trimming of the pith apex as described in the Garrison book. I don't know if this is necessary or not. It seems to me if one removes ~0.003" from the pith that there will be more glue in the rod. Will this effect the action of the rod? Is it important to have the ~0.003" removal uniform along the length of the rod? It seems to me, if anything, it should be tapered... Also, I notice that as I scrape to final dimensions, my flamedenamel is splintering near the edges of each strip, especially on thenarrow tip strips. Should I sand these rough edges down before or after gluing? I would'nt want a splinter to get between two strips and thus enlarge my glue lines... Is there a way to clean the strips up prior to gluing? I noticed some steel from the forms, and other junk on some of the strips... Can I safely wipe them with alcohol and allow them to dry? (Alcohol has 5% water...) or is a mineral spirit that is dry a better choice to clean with? Best Regards, PaulKalispell, MT from jkallo@midwest.net Tue Mar 30 23:07:54 1999 Subject: Book on Ebay of the book. Anyone? The URL is :http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=84851735 The description is:Bamboo Rod Building--1st editionThe Angler's Workshop. By Letcher Lambuth, edited with an intoduction bySteve Raymond, intro by RoderickHaig-Brown. Champoeg Press, 1979 1st ed. ltd. to 1250 copies (thiscopy unnumbered), 217pp, photos,drawings & specifications. Fine Condition. Buyer pays $4.00 domesticshipping. New York State residentsplease add 8.5% sales tax. Good Luck & Thank You For Looking! No financial connection, yada yada. Best,Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from chris@artistree.com Wed Mar 31 00:41:23 1999 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu =?iso-8859-1?Q?=2A=A1?=" Subject: Re: Book on Ebay mac-creator="4D4F5353" Joe,This book is generally noted for it's chapter on "Spiral" rod building.Usually sells for between $100 and $150. Feel to check out my sitehttp://www.artistree.com/SplitCaneLibrary/ for other books you mightfind ofinterest. --Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com "Joseph S.Kallo" wrote: of the book. Anyone? from harry37@epix.net Wed Mar 31 07:11:12 1999 SMTP id IAA16244 Subject: rod signing pens With all apologies--I know this subject was discussed recently, but Icouldn't find it in the archives-- Some folks had mentioned an artist's pen they used to sign a completedrod-- could you post this again--I'm finally going to get near an art store,and I need to know what to ask for- Thanks, Greg from channer@hubwest.com Wed Mar 31 07:53:37 1999 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A9452F4025A; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 06:55:17 MST Subject: Re: rod signing pens At 08:09 AM 3/31/99 -0500, harry37@epix.net wrote:With all apologies--I know this subject was discussed recently, but Icouldn't find it in the archives-- Some folks had mentioned an artist's pen they used to sign a completedrod-- could you post this again--I'm finally going to get near an art store,and I need to know what to ask for- Thanks, Greg Greg;the best one I have used is a Pigma Micron, size 005. Writes with a nicefine line and doesn,t bleed in varnish. You can also take it off withalcohol if you mess it up.John from dryfly@erols.com Wed Mar 31 08:45:10 1999 Subject: Re: rod signing pens Ditto, the Pigma Micron .005 is the way to go, available at Art Supply andCraft shops channer wrote: At 08:09 AM 3/31/99 -0500, harry37@epix.net wrote:With all apologies--I know this subject was discussed recently, but Icouldn't find it in the archives-- Some folks had mentioned an artist's pen they used to sign a completedrod-- could you post this again--I'm finally going to get near an art store,and I need to know what to ask for- Thanks, Greg Greg;the best one I have used is a Pigma Micron, size 005. Writes with a nicefine line and doesn,t bleed in varnish. You can also take it off withalcohol if you mess it up.John from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Wed Mar 31 09:00:52 1999 0500 Subject: Re[2]: rod signing pens ..are there different ink options for this pen or does it just come with a standard type? Ditto, the Pigma Micron .005 is the way to go, available at Art Supply andCraft shops channer wrote: from rsgould@cmc.net Wed Mar 31 09:08:01 1999 Subject: Lambuth book Hi Joe,Letcher Lambuth was a rather well known sportsman here in theNorthwest andwas famous for his unusual twisted or spiral rod as Chris Wohlford haspointed out to you. The spiral rod may sound a little odd and it is. Therod is twisted a number of revolutions as it is glued up, the theory beingthis would make the rod stiffer and more powerful. I first ran acrossLambuth's rods a number of years ago when one of my customers broughtme aLambuth spiral butt section and asked me to make him a tip section for it.Now that's what I call a "challenge". My response was "sure I'll make you atip section, but it ain't going to be twisted!". But now that I think aboutit I've spent so much time taking twists out of rods, maybe I should spendmore time putting them in!Ray from arnold.jl@pg.com Wed Mar 31 09:26:12 1999 [192.44.184.129] 1998)) id85256745.004F457E ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 10:25:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Re[2]: rod signing pens I tried the Pigma Micron and didn't really like the result all that well. Idid find a pen that is used for drafting with the name Staedtler (sp?). Ithas different available sizes and colors if that is what you are interestedin. They are available at Office Max....I have no association with any ofthese companies......and yes I have three different sizes of the PigmaMicron and have tired them all on differnt pieces of cane. They just didn'tseem to leave the ink very well. Jeff Please respond to andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Subject: Re[2]: rod signing pens ..are there different ink options for this pen or does it just come with astandard type? Ditto, the Pigma Micron .005 is the way to go, available at Art Supply andCraft shops channer wrote: from rmoon@ida.net Wed Mar 31 09:29:54 1999 0000 Subject: Re: Book on Ebay Worth buying. Learn how to make spiral rods. Ralph Original pub price $50 from rmoon@ida.net Wed Mar 31 09:37:25 1999 0000 Subject: Re: Lambuth book Ray I surprised. I would have expected you to have tried a spiral. Therehave been a number of us who have made them and they are really not thathard to do. The only problem is deciding what happens to the actionbecause of the spiral. I made a 7' one piece spiral on a regular 7' 4wt taper. It comes out to a 6 wt,, but some guys claim that even a 6 istoo light. Loved your book. It has a lot of good information for eventhe old timers. Thanks Ralph from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Mar 31 10:02:35 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Wed, 31 Mar 1999 10:02:26 -0600 Subject: Re: Rod Markings Hi Joe,I'm only about 10 rods ahead of you, so take this as a voice of limitedexperience:If I take a taper straight out of a book, or off the web, I without failnote theoriginal taper inthe signature lines. For example, I just finished a 6'8" 3 weight copy of anFE Thomastaper. DarrylWhitehead calls it "the best three weight he's ever cast." It is included inGeorge Maurer'sbook. AndGeorge Barnes shared with me that he made 4 of them this past Christmas. I gathered thetaper from allthree sources, integrated the numbers, and noted on the rod:FE Thomas taper -- Harry Boyd, Maker Now, If I had taken that two piece 3 weight taper, made it a three piece5 weight taper,and added alittle wood in the middle to give it a less pronounced parabolic action, andextended it to7.5 feetinstead of the original 6'8", then it seems to be my adaptation of Thomas's On a similar note, I have build 3 rods based on Wayne's "Sir D" taper, butnone have beenthe 7' 4weight. I marked every one "W.C. Sir D taper." I make the differentiationwhen I change thecharacter ofthe rod.When it comes to restoring/refinishing, I usually make a note,"restored, HB, March1999". Of course,any unscrupulous seller can take out the signature with a little elbowgrease and some newvarnish. Hope this helps start the discussion,Harry Joe Mulvey wrote: Hello All,I sent in my monthly posting during one of those periods when you justaren't sure anyonegot yourmessage. So at the risk of making my idols angry, here it is again. Just rec. BBFR in the mail. The first letter from a gentleman in Swedenmade some pointsthat Ithought were very interesting. He notes that when using someone else'staper on your rod,sometype of notation could be mentioned to give credit where credit is due.Since I have notbuilt myfirst bamboo from scratch yet, I was wondering... Does anybody do this? What info do yousupplyon the rod? Are you consistent with every piece you build? I haverefinished a few rods,trying tokeep them in original condition. Now suppose I did such a nice job (I saidsuppose!) thatno onecould tell it was refinished. In theory, I could put it on the market as aMint/Unfishedrod for muchmore $$$ than it is really worth. Am I obligated to make a littlenotation on the rod tomention"Refinished by J. Mulvey, Jan. 1999" or should I leave it as is? How aboutturning a 3 pc9 wtMontague into a 2 pc 5 wt banty. Now there are no markings. Do I havethe right to markthis as Iwish? I think not! With the year 2000 on the horizon, does anyone marktheir rods with thedate?Two digits or four? Come the next century, when your creations are 100years old, somefolks willbe wondering if your beauty was created in 1899 or 1999. So... How doyou mark your rods? On a side note, concerning that excellent magazine, I had an idea thatsomeone may want topasson to the Honorable Mr Metcalfe. How about a centerfold? A three pagefold out of someoneshandiwork up close and personal. The little 2"x3" photos of rods do nojustice at all! Have a great day,Joe MulveyJoseph MulveyNetwork EngineerInformation Technology DepartmentCity Of Newton, MA1000 Commonwealth AvenueNewton Centre, MA 02459Phone 617-552-7085Fax 617-552-7036 from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Mar 31 10:05:44 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Wed, 31 Mar 1999 10:05:36 -0600 Subject: Re: final forms Wil,I can't say for sure, but I think it means you're human. Best thing todo is build some rods on those forms. We make them adjustable for areason.I had a part-time job in college working for a guy who built deerstands and shipped them all over the country. Apparently I was toometiculous, because he constantly reminded me, "We ain't building nowristwatch here!"I don't want to be the enabler of sloppy, poorly built rods, but afterall, they're just fishing poles.Harry "w.d. gatliff" wrote: hey guys,finished filing my final forms last night.boy, did they look great.i sat there with a bud lite just looking for an hour. this morning i set up a taper and checked it with using the drill bitsper chris bogard.the readings i got were 3 to 5 thousandthsdifferent between a .1250 bit and a .1400 . does this mean my groove isnot a true 60*. if so, what can i do to correct this. would appreciate any all suggestions.wil from rfairfie@cisco.com Wed Mar 31 10:40:23 1999 SMTP id IAA12800; Subject: Re: Trim the pith apex prior to gluing? Paul, removing pith at the center of the rod will have minimal effect onthe stiffness of therod, as the stress at this point is zero. Hense, the action should not beaffected at all. There are those on the list who will probably grit their teeth when theyread this, but Iactually remove a few thousandths from the enamel prior to glueing sothat the section isflat, itstead of crowned. This has the effect of removing the littlesplinters from theedges of the strip, if done carefully. I use my plane; I don't see whysanding shouldn'twork as well. As for cleanup prior to glueing, I just use a clean brush. So far, I've made16 rods andhaven't had any problems with them coming apart due to poor glue joints. Good luck,roger At 06:45 PM 3/30/99 -0700, Paul Martino wrote:Dear list members, I am at the point of gluing up my first rod section. I am unsure as to the trimming of the pith apex as described in the Garrison book. I don't know if this is necessary or not. It seems to me if one removes ~0.003" from the pith that there will be more glue in the rod. Will this effect the action of the rod? Is it important to have the ~0.003" removal uniform along the length of the rod? It seems to me, if anything, it should be tapered... Also, I notice that as I scrape to final dimensions, my flamedenamel is splintering near the edges of each strip, especially on thenarrow tip strips. Should I sand these rough edges down before or after gluing? I would'nt want a splinter to get between two strips and thus enlarge my glue lines... Is there a way to clean the strips up prior to gluing? I noticed some steel from the forms, and other junk on some of the strips... Can I safely wipe them with alcohol and allow them to dry? (Alcohol has 5% water...) or is a mineral spirit that is dry a better choice to clean with? Best Regards, PaulKalispell, MT from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Mar 31 12:12:22 1999 jkallo@midwest.net Subject: Re: Lambuth book In a message dated 3/31/99 3:12:59 PM, rsgould@cmc.net wrote: Tsk, Tsk, RayWith all the other things you have experimented with, I don't know whyyouwould turn down that challenge. As Ralph says, it isn't all that hard andthere is a definite performance boost. I have never gotten the kind ofstiffness boost that Ralph describes, however. I think I get about 1/2 of aline weight increase. As easy way to try it out is to build a spiral butt for an existing moderateaction rod. You will notice a definite increase in the speed of the rod fromthe stiffer butt. I would love to see more people building these things. from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Mar 31 12:28:26 1999 10:37:34 -0800 "rsgould@cmc.net","owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu","jkallo@midwest.net" Subject: RE: Lambuth book Tom wrote a nice article in the Best of Planing Form on this issue. Checkit out. I wouldlike to give this a shot once I have tried a swelled butt. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu -----Original Message----- jkallo@midwest.net Subject: Re: Lambuth book In a message dated 3/31/99 3:12:59 PM, rsgould@cmc.net wrote: Tsk, Tsk, RayWith all the other things you have experimented with, I don't know whyyouwould turn down that challenge. As Ralph says, it isn't all that hard andthere is a definite performance boost. I have never gotten the kind ofstiffness boost that Ralph describes, however. I think I get about 1/2 of aline weight increase. As easy way to try it out is to build a spiral butt for an existing moderateaction rod. You will notice a definite increase in the speed of the rod fromthe stiffer butt. I would love to see more people building these things. from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Wed Mar 31 12:30:56 1999 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1998.03.08.20.27)with SMTP id ; Wed, 31 Mar Subject: RE: Lambuth book rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu,jkallo@midwest.net Good idea to build a spiral butt section. Since the butt usually only has astripper and one guide, lining up the guides is not as much of an issue asit must be in making a spiral tip section. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu TSmithwick@aol.comSent: Wednesday, March 31, 1999 1:10 PM jkallo@midwest.netCc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Lambuth book In a message dated 3/31/99 3:12:59 PM, rsgould@cmc.net wrote: tip section, but it ain't going to be twisted!".>> Tsk, Tsk, RayWith all the other things you have experimented with, I don't know whyyouwould turn down that challenge. As Ralph says, it isn't all that hard andthere is a definite performance boost. I have never gotten the kind ofstiffness boost that Ralph describes, however. I think I getabout 1/2 of aline weight increase.As easy way to try it out is to build a spiral butt for anexisting moderateaction rod. You will notice a definite increase in the speed ofthe rod fromthe stiffer butt. I would love to see more people building these things. from freaner@gte.net Wed Mar 31 13:27:44 1999 Subject: Re: Lambuth book As easy way to try it out is to build a spiral butt for an existingmoderateaction rod. You will notice a definite increase in the speed of the rodfromthe stiffer butt. I would love to see more people building these things. anyonehave a website with a picture of spiral rod so we can see what one lookslike? Thanks,Claude from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Wed Mar 31 13:55:50 1999 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id NAA22257 for; (8.8.4/8.6.8) with SMTP idNAA27274 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 Subject: Re: Lambuth book (fwd) The "Best of Planing Form" discussion left the question as to whether spiral build rods retain their initial zip or get softer over time. Maybe Tom or Ralph or someone who has built several could comment on this.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from sniderja@email.uc.edu Wed Mar 31 14:37:49 1999 Subject: Re: rod signing pens Most folks don't seem to like the Rapidiograph refillable drafting pens,however, I use a 0.35 point and black india ink on light rods and use whiteink on dark rods. Looks real fine, and a number of people have commentedmost positively on the lettering. However, when using the white ink, Icarefully lay on a thin layer of varnish using a small darning needle afterthe ink is dry. When dry, I then apply my regular finish and the white inkdoesn't smear. I haven't had any problem with the black India ink smearingonce it is dry, so don't go through the trouble of covering it with a thinlayer of varnish before final finish.The downside to these pens is that they are expensive and are difficult toclean.J. Snider.At 08:09 AM 3/31/99 - 0500, harry37@epix.net wrote:With all apologies--I know this subject was discussed recently, but Icouldn't find it in the archives-- Some folks had mentioned an artist's pen they used to sign a completedrod-- could you post this again--I'm finally going to get near an art store,and I need to know what to ask for- Thanks, Greg from rmoon@ida.net Wed Mar 31 17:13:36 1999 0000 Subject: Re: Lambuth book (fwd) Frank. You have hit on the one problem that faces a lot of spiral rodmakers. And it all has to do with the spiral. The 7' one piece Imentioned was a most exceptional example of serendipity I have everexperienced. After- straightening spiral rods only relaxes the spiral andyou lose the form you want. Because of this when the rod is glued itmust be set in the form perfectly straight. I think you can see theproblem of gluing up a straight 7' rod. I did it, but I doubt if Icould ever do it again. Having established that the spiral can creepbrings me to a dilemma the answer to which I can only speculate. I havea friend who has tried a couple of spirals and the rods have lost thetwist after sitting a while. I have never had a problem and I have hadthe opportunity of weekly inspecting a Lambuth for a number of years.Again no Problem.. My own opinion is based on a thread we went throughsome time ago. Heat Treating . I am convinced that an improperly heattreated rod section will take a new set, will return to a straightenedout set, and untwist any spiral. If properly heat treated a rod sectionwill resist setting, hold a newly defined position , and maintain thespiral. I have no experimental data to back this up, It is strictly myown perception. And now if I tell you I do not use a thermometer toheat treat you won't believe anything I say. (Actually I use my nose.). I notice that Lambuth attributes about 12% increase in speed andstiffness as a result of spiral. Why I am showing so much variance I donot know. One other thing Lambuth said: if you make a section that is notperfectly straight go ahead and try to straighten it. What have you tolose. Ralph Ralph from HARMS1@prodigy.net Wed Mar 31 17:28:38 1999 Wed, 31 Mar 1999 18:27:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Trim the pith apex prior to gluing? =_NextPart_000_01BE7BA3.CF42CDA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE7BA3.CF42CDA0 Paul, Different makers have differing opinions on this issue, just as you mightexpect. from my experience, I like to sand the apex of all six stripssimultaneously at the time they are all taped together on their backs, immediately before glue- up. I remove only the sharp point, using 400 gritpaper, and sanding gently down toward the smaller end of the sectionONLY. I believe this step allows the six strips to bundle together more perfectlyduring the gluing procedure, but I would be hard-pressed to prove thatpoint. The slight amount of cane that is removed will be replaced by glue,I suppose, but as far as weight is concerned, that would surely be animmeasurable trade-off. The absolute center of a rod where the six strips meet is, indeed, deadcenter, with the operative word here being "dead." Nothing at all iscontributed to the flexing characteristics of a rod by whatever material islocated at this dead center, since that material is never either incompression or tension. It just moves with the rod, contributing nothingbut its mass (that is, contributing nothing). Over the decades, variousbuilders have made "hollow-built" rods in an attempt to remove thisuseless material and to lighten the rod overall -- trusting the flexingcharacteristics of the taper to the integrity of wall thickness alone. (Bysome quirk of geometry, a hollow tube of a certain wall thickness hasgreater resistance to bending forces than a solid tube of the samediameter). So, if you wish to remove the apex at the center of your sections, feelfree to do so without worry that you might be negatively affecting thefinished rod. Cheers, Bill ----------From: Paul Martino Subject: Trim the pith apex prior to gluing?Date: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 5:45 PM Dear list members, I am at the point of gluing up my first rod section. I am unsure as tothe trimming of the pith apex as described in the Garrison book. I don't know if this is necessary or not. It seems to me if one removes ~0.003" from the pith that there will be more glue in the rod. Will this effect the action of the rod? Is it important to have the ~0.003" removal uniform along the length of the rod? It seems to me, if anything, it should be tapered... Also, I notice that as I scrape to final dimensions, my flamedenamel is splintering near the edges of each strip, especially on thenarrow tip strips. Should I sand these rough edges down before or after gluing? I would'nt want a splinter to get between two strips and thus enlarge my glue lines... Is there a way to clean the strips up prior to gluing? I noticed some steel from the forms, and other junk on some of the strips... Can I safely wipe them with alcohol and allow them to dry? (Alcohol has 5% water...) or is a mineral spirit that is dry a better choice to clean with? Best Regards, PaulKalispell, MT------=_NextPart_000_01BE7BA3.CF42CDA0 Paul,Differentmakers = simultaneously at the time they are all taped together on their backs, = using 400 grit paper, and sanding gently down toward the smaller end of = strips to bundle together more perfectly during the gluing procedure, = of cane that is removed will be replaced by glue, I suppose, but as far =as weight is concerned, that would surely be an immeasurable trade-off. = indeed, dead center, with the operative word here being = flexing characteristics of a rod by whatever material is located at this =dead center, since that material is never either in compression or = =remove this useless material and to lighten the rod overall -- trusting =the flexing characteristics of the taper to the integrity of wall = certain wall thickness has greater resistance to bending forces than a =solid tube of the same diameter).So, if you wish to remove the =apex at the center of your sections, feel free to do so without worry =that you might be negatively affecting the finished rod.Cheers, = = ------=_NextPart_000_01BE7BA3.CF42CDA0-- from FlyLines@aol.com Wed Mar 31 17:42:35 1999 Subject: Unsubscribe Please take Flylines@AOL off the e-mail list from anglport@con2.com Wed Mar 31 18:32:00 1999 Subject: Re: rod signing pens I'm still pushing the dip pens that you can get for calligraphy. You need ahandle to hold the nib and an exceedingly fine nib and a bottle of Indiaink to dip them in. You can also get calligraphy ink in the same size/shapebottles and any one bottle of any color is several lifetimes' supply. Don'tknow if you have to cover the non-India colors, but the India seems to beimpervious to anything but WATER!Art At 03:22 PM 3/31/99 -0500, Jerry Snider wrote:Most folks don't seem to like the Rapidiograph refillable drafting pens,however, I use a 0.35 point and black india ink on light rods and use whiteink on dark rods. Looks real fine, and a number of people have commentedmost positively on the lettering. However, when using the white ink, Icarefully lay on a thin layer of varnish using a small darning needle afterthe ink is dry. When dry, I then apply my regular finish and the white inkdoesn't smear. I haven't had any problem with the black India inksmearingonce it is dry, so don't go through the trouble of covering it with a thinlayer of varnish before final finish.The downside to these pens is that they are expensive and are difficult toclean.J. Snider.At 08:09 AM 3/31/99 -0500, harry37@epix.net wrote:With all apologies--I know this subject was discussed recently, but Icouldn't find it in the archives-- Some folks had mentioned an artist's pen they used to sign a completedrod-- could you post this again--I'm finally going to get near an art store,and I need to know what to ask for- Thanks, Greg from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Wed Mar 31 18:37:06 1999 mtiwmhc07.worldnet.att.net(InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP Thu, 1 Apr 1999 00:36:34 +0000 Subject: Re: Lambuth book If you would like to know more about the science and construction oftwistedrods, T.Smithwick is the one. He makes the best twisted rods sinceLambuthand they cast beautifully and catch nice fish so I'm told. Jack from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Mar 31 20:29:07 1999 Subject: Re: Lambuth book You will notice a definite increase in the speed of the rod fromthe stiffer butt. I would love to see more people building these things. Now that I can make 5 and 4 sided rods....Hmmm.... Darryl from djk762@hotmail.com Wed Mar 31 20:50:34 1999 Wed, 31 Mar 1999 18:50:47 PST Subject: heddon 17 wraps Can anyone reccomend currantly available orange silk for tipping a heddon #17 black beauty? Sinclair suggests gudebrod 210 but gudebrod is not making this orange anymore.Thank you.Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Mar 31 21:08:39 1999 mtiwmhc07.worldnet.att.net(InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP Subject: Medved Beveler Plans - updated To All A number of people were interested in updated plans. Al just sent me his latest and greatest set of plans that I scannedand put up on my web site at http://www.shentel.net/canerod/ just follow rodmakingclassesto rodmaking tools and scroll down to the Medved Beveler Pictures and theplansare in are marked as NEW and in a PDF file. I am working on a update to my web site so please excuse the currentmess. Chris from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Mar 31 21:47:32 1999 Subject: RE: Lambuth book In a message dated 3/31/99 6:34:03 PM, you wrote: Richard- That is right, and straightness is much less of a problem also. Frank - I can't speak for Ralph, but I have not noticed any change. I dosuspect that there is more stress in these rods, and that they willeventuallysoften up a bit faster than a straight rod. I can't prove it yet, however. Myrods don't get fished nearly as much as I would like, but they do gethammeredat gatherings and such by people making long casts.I have never had a rod unwind after it was built. Most of them seem tounwindjust slightly after they come out of the form, so the guide spacing is alittle bit stretched out. from jfoster@gte.net Wed Mar 31 22:00:47 1999 Subject: Spiral mac-creator="4D4F5353" I have one of mr. Smithwick's rods, and beside the pure craftmanship, itis a delite to cast and of course will catch fish. ( in my case I onlycatch stupid fish, nomatter the instrument). I may try one day to buildone myself.... regards jerry from jfoster@gte.net Wed Mar 31 22:05:23 1999 Subject: [Fwd: Cane Rods] boundary="------------06410638DEC5C16E7045AB67" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 06410638DEC5C16E7045AB67 mac-creator="4D4F5353" --------------06410638DEC5C16E7045AB67 262.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id 262.iap.bryant.webtv.net(8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id TAA15643; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 19:34:47 -0800 ETAsAhRWvxvY1/thLOE4a35dVpMVqQDjMAIUccMjj/f15sHH4vAaxIVNNo6Yg4g= Subject: Cane Rods I am a cane enthusiast living up here in Seattle. Do you know how I canget ahold of George Boehme?