from Ed.Estlow@co.hennepin.mn.us Thu Apr 1 08:23:00 1999 1999 14:22:24 UT 16-1998)) id86256746.004EBFA4 ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 08:20:08 -0600 Subject: Re: Trim the pith apex prior to gluing? Alas, Bill, a hollow tube does not have greater resistance to bendingforcesthan a solid tube of the same diameter. The stiffness of a beam of circularcross section is proportional to the fourth power of the outer diameter. Iftherod is hollow, the stiffness is propostrional to the fourth power of theouterdiameter MINUS the fourth power of the inner diameter. This is, of course,alower number than the fourth power of the outer diameter alone. Thus ahollowrod will not be as stiff as a solid one. In the spirit of demistifying the (engineering) solid mechanics of fly rods,Best regards,-Ed Estlow -SNIP- The absolute center of a rod where the six strips meet is, indeed, deadcenter, with the operative word here being "dead." Nothing at all iscontributed to the flexing characteristics of a rod by whatever material islocated at this dead center, since that material is never either incompression or tension. It just moves with the rod, contributing nothingbut its mass (that is, contributing nothing). Over the decades, variousbuilders have made "hollow-built" rods in an attempt to remove thisuseless material and to lighten the rod overall -- trusting the flexingcharacteristics of the taper to the integrity of wall thickness alone. (Bysome quirk of geometry, a hollow tube of a certain wall thickness hasgreater resistance to bending forces than a solid tube of the samediameter). So, if you wish to remove the apex at the center of your sections, feelfree to do so without worry that you might be negatively affecting thefinished rod. Cheers, Bill -SNIP- from BThoman@neonsoft.com Thu Apr 1 08:28:55 1999 Subject: Filtering Varnish Does anyone know of a way to filter varnish to remove smallcontaminants?Cheesecloth? Gauze? Any good way to do it without introducing moredust orfabric particles would be great help. Brian from dpeaston@wzrd.com Thu Apr 1 08:43:46 1999 Thu, 1 Apr 1999 09:43:09 GMT Subject: Re: Filtering Varnish At 07:24 AM 4/1/1999 -0700, Thoman, Brian wrote:Does anyone know of a way to filter varnish to remove smallcontaminants?Cheesecloth? Gauze? Any good way to do it without introducing moredust orfabric particles would be great help. Brian Brian,Most good paint stores carry filter cones with a mesh for filteringvarnish. I sometimes use Cheeze cloth, but it absorbs a lot of varnish, isa bit too coarse and can leave lint. It is, however, adequate to Remove thedog hair which often contaminates my finishes. -Doug from jclove@cysource.com Thu Apr 1 09:09:46 1999 Thu, 1 Apr 1999 09:09:24 -0600 Subject: Re: Filtering Varnish mac-creator="4D4F5353" Brian, An excellent varnish filter may be had by procuring (methods left toyour discretion and local availability) a supply of nylon stockings.Snip the stocking to a suitable length above the heel and stretch itaround the lid of your "clean" can. Works great and will provide moreand better stories than a trip to the paint store! Jeff from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Apr 1 11:34:36 1999 Subject: Hollow rods (Was:Trim the pith apex prior to gluing?) Alas, Bill, a hollow tube does not have greater resistance to bendingforcesthan a solid tube of the same diameter. The stiffness of a beam ofcircularcross section is proportional to the fourth power of the outer diameter.Ifthe rod is hollow, the stiffness is propostrional to the fourth power ofthe outer diameter MINUS the fourth power of the inner diameter. This is, of course, a lower number than the fourth power of the outer diameteralone. Thus a hollow rod will not be as stiff as a solid one. I knew Engineer Ed would come through on this one. Ed and I have beenhere before. Ed is right as usual, but one thing I would like to add is that there is a perception that a hollow rod is stiffer because of the reducedweight. A hollow rod stops and reverses direction quicker because it islighter. To most people casting the rod it feels like it is stiffer. Darryl from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Apr 1 11:44:35 1999 via smap (4.1) 9:56:02 PST Subject: RE: Filtering Varnish The paint store filters that Doug talked about are very good. You can get the cones and pour directly into your tube, but I like the 1 and 5 gallon bags. The mesh on them seems to be finer, which makes sense because the varnish or paint is pouring through a larger surface area rather then a small screened area at the bottom of a cone. Ultimately I tape a small square to a plastic funnel anyway so the flow into the tube is slow and takes some time, but again the filtering qualities are very good. A 5 gallon bag cut up into small squares to be taped on the bottom of a plastic cone filter will last for many filtering sessions if you find it necessary. Also important is the type of cap you use on your dip tube. A.J. tipped me off to the rubber caps with the hose clamp to cap off a dip tube, also Reed has mentioned these. Basically you do away with any threads that maycause dried remnants of varnish to fall into your tube if your using a screw lid. I have used one of these caps for almost a year and have never had a surface skim over and never have contaminates in the varnish. In order to periodically mix the varnish in the tube you will need to remove the cap and replace it with a seal of some kind so you can turn the tube over and back to mix. I simply use a folded over piece of plastic wrap and the palm of my hand to seal. It's simple, it works, and I have no contaminates in the varnish, and no skim over. When you remove the rubber cap from the tube there is actually a hiss from the vaccum pressure created. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Apr 1 11:53:41 1999 via smap (4.1) 10:04:53 PST Subject: RE: heddon 17 wraps David, The YLI sold via Anglers Workshop in Orange #143 is a good match if you preserve the color with clear lacquer. These 200 meter spools are $5.95 plus shipping. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from dmanders@telusplanet.net Thu Apr 1 11:55:47 1999 don") byedtnps05.telusplanet.net with SMTP id ; Thu, 1 Apr 199910:51:01 - 0700 Subject: Re: Hollow rods (Was:Trim the pith apex prior to gluing?) Darryl, And from the comparisons that I've done - a hollow rod will not cast asfaras the same taper built solid. Don At 12:33 PM 4/1/99 EST, SalarFly@aol.com wrote: Alas, Bill, a hollow tube does not have greater resistance to bendingforcesthan a solid tube of the same diameter. The stiffness of a beam ofcircularcross section is proportional to the fourth power of the outerdiameter. Ifthe rod is hollow, the stiffness is propostrional to the fourth power ofthe outer diameter MINUS the fourth power of the inner diameter. This is,of course, a lower number than the fourth power of the outer diameteralone. Thus a hollow rod will not be as stiff as a solid one. I knew Engineer Ed would come through on this one. Ed and I have beenhere before. Ed is right as usual, but one thing I would like to add is that there is a perception that a hollow rod is stiffer because of the reducedweight. A hollow rod stops and reverses direction quicker because it islighter. To most people casting the rod it feels like it is stiffer. Darryl from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Thu Apr 1 11:56:02 1999 (5.5.2407.0) "'mcdowellc@lanecc.edu'" Subject: RE: Filtering Varnish check out the dip tube caps on the dip tubes that goldenwitch sells, nothreads-a rubber ?type seal and no threads. Once again I have no financial interest in thecompany. ----------From: mcdowellc@lanecc.edu[SMTP:mcdowellc@lanecc.edu] Sent: Thursday, April 01, 1999 9:46 AM Subject: RE: Filtering Varnish The paint store filters that Doug talked about are very good. You can get the cones and pour directly into your tube, but I like the 1 and 5 gallon bags. The mesh on them seems to be finer, which makes sense becausethe varnish or paint is pouring through a larger surface area rather then a small screened area at the bottom of a cone. Ultimately I tape a small square to a plastic funnel anyway so the flow into the tube is slow and takes some time, but again the filtering qualities are very good. A 5 gallon bag cut up into small squares to be taped on the bottom of aplastic cone filter will last for many filtering sessions if you find it necessary. Also important is the type of cap you use on your dip tube. A.J. tipped me off to the rubber caps with the hose clamp to cap off a dip tube, alsoReed has mentioned these. Basically you do away with any threads that maycause dried remnants of varnish to fall into your tube if your using a screw lid. I have used one of these caps for almost a year and have never had a surface skim over and never have contaminates in the varnish. In order to periodically mix the varnish in the tube you will need to remove the cap and replace it with a seal of some kind so you can turnthe tube over and back to mix. I simply use a folded over piece of plastic wrap and the palm of my hand to seal. It's simple, it works, and I haveno contaminates in the varnish, and no skim over. When you remove the rubber cap from the tube there is actually a hiss from the vaccum pressure created. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from measter@sdcoe.k12.ca.us Thu Apr 1 12:31:00 1999 Subject: NS Tubing mac-creator="4D4F5353" Hi There,It appears that Mr. LeClair's supply of reel seat tubing has dried up. Iam in need of about 5 ft of 720x650. If anyone can help please reply offlist.Thanks,Marl from rmoon@ida.net Thu Apr 1 12:34:19 1999 Subject: Thanks To all of you who offered help on Wayne's Hexrod98, my sincere thanks.I got it up and going just computer stupidity that's all. Ralph from CALucker@aol.com Thu Apr 1 13:13:00 1999 Subject: Re: Lambuth book In a message dated 3/31/99 10:34:21 AM Pacific Standard Time,richard.nantel@videotron.ca writes: Lining up the guides is not really difficult. You simply bend the guide feetto match the twists on the blank. That way you put the guids where youwantthem, not where the twists dictate. Chris Lucker from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Apr 1 13:18:41 1999 via smap (4.1) 11:30:00 PST Subject: Heddon 8' 1 3/4f taper This taper was taken from a Heddon #125 8' three piece with a 1 3/4f ferrule. Varnish removed. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu tip #1 tip #2 1 .072,.073,.075 .073,.074,.0755 .087,.088,.089 .088,.089,.09210 .100,.104,.106 .098,.101,.10215 .114,.114,.115 .116,.119,.12020 .127,.128,.131 .129,.130,.13825 .140,.143,.143 .143,.144,.14630 .155,.157,.161 .158,.163,.165Ferrule35 .166,.167,.16840 .185,.186,.18745 .200,.202,.20250 .217,.217,.21955 .229,.234,.23560 .248,.250,.251Ferrule66 .261,.263,.26370 .270,.270,.27275 .285,.285,.28880 .298,.300,.302 (Butt swell begins here)85 .404,.410,.41185 3/4 .415,.422,.423 (Max swell before winding check) from mcs@fastlane.net Thu Apr 1 14:31:42 1999 Subject: Other Rod Building Lists I am new to this list and I was wondering if there are any other rodbuilding lists that deal with rods other than bamboo? Thanks all. from chris@artistree.com Thu Apr 1 15:05:02 1999 Subject: Re: Hollow rods (Was:Trim the pith apex prior to gluing?) mac-creator="4D4F5353" I'm having hard time with this statement. Although, I haven't done any realfield comparisons like Don has (and I will), I've seen guys cast my hollowrods(7' - 8') down into the backing. I mean how much further do you want togo? At this point in time I really feel it's dependent on the skill of the casterand to some extent the taper (yes, I said some extent). I'm lucky to live inarea that sports some really top notch casters and have seen some thingsdone oncane rods that has blown me away. So much so that this has inspired me topractice my casting as often as I can. --Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: Darryl, And from the comparisons that I've done - a hollow rod will not cast asfaras the same taper built solid. from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Apr 1 15:15:53 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Thu, 1 Apr 1999 15:15:39 -0600 Subject: Re: Thanks Ralph,After you've played with it a while, you find out that it's prettyneat. Does all the things others do, plus side by side comparisons of tworods. That makes a pretty neat way to compare, say a Gillum and aDickerson.When you figure out some of the other neat things, fill us in. Harry from HARMS1@prodigy.net Thu Apr 1 17:18:32 1999 Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:18:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Trim the pith apex prior to gluing? =_NextPart_000_01BE7C6B.BFA59F80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE7C6B.BFA59F80 Ed, Thanks for the clarification. I'm the last to claim expertise in geometry,as anyone can tell. But I must say, I am truly surprised to hear thisexplanation. Oh well. I wasn't going to build a hollow rod anyhow. Cheers, Bill ----------From: Ed.Estlow@co.hennepin.mn.us Subject: Re: Trim the pith apex prior to gluing?Date: Thursday, April 01, 1999 6:19 AM Alas, Bill, a hollow tube does not have greater resistance to bendingforcesthan a solid tube of the same diameter. The stiffness of a beam ofcircularcross section is proportional to the fourth power of the outer diameter.If therod is hollow, the stiffness is propostrional to the fourth power of theouterdiameter MINUS the fourth power of the inner diameter. This is, ofcourse, alower number than the fourth power of the outer diameter alone. Thus ahollowrod will not be as stiff as a solid one. In the spirit of demistifying the (engineering) solid mechanics of flyrods,Best regards,-Ed Estlow -SNIP- The absolute center of a rod where the six strips meet is, indeed, deadcenter, with the operative word here being "dead." Nothing at all iscontributed to the flexing characteristics of a rod by whatever materialislocated at this dead center, since that material is never either incompression or tension. It just moves with the rod, contributing nothingbut its mass (that is, contributing nothing). Over the decades, variousbuilders have made "hollow-built" rods in an attempt to remove thisuseless material and to lighten the rod overall -- trusting the flexingcharacteristics of the taper to the integrity of wall thickness alone. (Bysome quirk of geometry, a hollow tube of a certain wall thickness hasgreater resistance to bending forces than a solid tube of the samediameter). So, if you wish to remove the apex at the center of your sections, feelfree to do so without worry that you might be negatively affecting thefinished rod. Cheers, Bill -SNIP- ------=_NextPart_000_01BE7C6B.BFA59F80 Ed,Thanks for the = rod is hollow, the stiffness is propostrional to the fourth power of the = center, with the operative word here being "dead." = = some quirk of geometry, a hollow tube of a certain wall thickness = ------=_NextPart_000_01BE7C6B.BFA59F80-- from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Apr 1 17:41:17 1999 SalarFly@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Hollow rods (Was:Trim the pith apex prior to gluing?) In a message dated 4/1/99 6:01:05 PM, dmanders@telusplanet.net wrote: Don - That is true up to a point. As the rod gets bigger and longer it mightbe possible that the caster might run out of the strength it takes to handleaheavy rod. In that case he could probably cast the hollow version farther,even though the solid version is more powerful. from HARMS1@prodigy.net Thu Apr 1 17:58:09 1999 Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:58:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Hollow rods (Was:Trim the pith apex prior to gluing?) =_NextPart_000_01BE7C71.47712A60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE7C71.47712A60 Yes, I'm sure that a hollow-built rod would seem stiffer because of itsreduced mass and relatively quicker recovery time. But wouldn't thereduced mass be almost entirely in the lower two-thirds of the rod -- thus,leaving the rod feeling "tip-heavy"? And, as a side note, I would still affirm that in a non-hollow-built rod,the small amount of cane one removes from the apex of the six strips isindeed at a rod's "dead center," and can be taken away without concern foraffecting the action. Cheers, Bill ----------From: SalarFly@aol.com Subject: Hollow rods (Was:Trim the pith apex prior to gluing?)Date: Thursday, April 01, 1999 9:33 AM Alas, Bill, a hollow tube does not have greater resistance to bendingforcesthan a solid tube of the same diameter. The stiffness of a beam ofcircularcross section is proportional to the fourth power of the outerdiameter. Ifthe rod is hollow, the stiffness is propostrional to the fourth powerofthe outer diameter MINUS the fourth power of the inner diameter. This is,of course, a lower number than the fourth power of the outer diameteralone. Thus a hollow rod will not be as stiff as a solid one. I knew Engineer Ed would come through on this one. Ed and I have beenhere before. Ed is right as usual, but one thing I would like to add isthat there is a perception that a hollow rod is stiffer because of the reducedweight. A hollow rod stops and reverses direction quicker because it islighter. To most people casting the rod it feels like it is stiffer. Darryl------=_NextPart_000_01BE7C71.47712A60 Yes, I'm sure that a =hollow-built rod would seem stiffer because of its reduced mass and = =almost entirely in the lower two-thirds of the rod -- thus, leaving the =rod feeling "tip-heavy"?And, as a side note, I would =still affirm that in a non-hollow-built rod, the small amount of cane =one removes from the apex of the six strips is indeed at a rod's = = = there is a perception that a hollow rod is stiffer because of the = ------=_NextPart_000_01BE7C71.47712A60-- from chris@artistree.com Thu Apr 1 18:18:47 1999 Subject: Hollow rods mac-creator="4D4F5353" Guys,I'm under the impression that:Lighter Weight (hollow) + Increased Stiffness (taper & other methods) = afasterline speed. Have I been hanging out with the graphite guys too much? On another note, I hear the graphite rod manufactures are finally startingtoslow their tapers down. Looks taper/action design is coming around fullcircle. --Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com ....but one thing I would like to add is that there is a perception that ahollow rod is stiffer because of the reduced weight. A hollow rod stopsandreverses direction quicker because it islighter. To most people casting the rod it feels like it is stiffer. Darryl from chris@artistree.com Thu Apr 1 18:30:55 1999 Subject: Re: Hollow rods mac-creator="4D4F5353" Bill,I thought of this when I started hollow building but it turned out notto be the case. Nearest I can figure is the remaining mass (afterhollowing) in the lower 2/3 rds is still much greater than the mass ofthe upper 1/3 rd of the rod (i.e. tip section). I think it would take areally big tip diameter to throw this off. --Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com WILLIAM A HARMS wrote: Yes, I'm sure that a hollow-built rod would seem stiffer because ofits reduced mass and relatively quicker recovery time. But wouldn'tthe reduced mass be almost entirely in the lower two-thirds of the rod-- thus, leaving the rod feeling "tip-heavy"? from plantboy@siu.edu Thu Apr 1 18:31:07 1999 Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:30:40 -0600 Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:33:08 -0600 Subject: Re: Hollow rods boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0027_01BE7C6E.16000760" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01BE7C6E.16000760 Chris Wohlford wrote: "On another note, I hear the graphite rod manufactures are finally =starting toslow their tapers down. Looks taper/action design is coming around full =circle." Your right, unless you've been fishing a Winston graphite. They've been =using the IM6 graphite for years while sage et al. have moved up into =the 'crazy fast' series III and IV graphites. Interesting to note that =Winstons top of the line is the IM6 and Sage's entry series is IM6. As =a friend told me, "It just goes to show you that the taper makes all the =difference". Soon to be a bamboo convert, Eric -----Original Message-----From: Chris Wohlford Cc: RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Thursday, April 01, 1999 4:23 PMSubject: Hollow rods Guys,I'm under the impression that:Lighter Weight (hollow) + Increased Stiffness (taper & other =methods) =3D a fasterline speed. Have I been hanging out with the graphite guys too much? On another note, I hear the graphite rod manufactures are finally =starting toslow their tapers down. Looks taper/action design is coming around =full circle. --Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com ....but one thing I would like to add is that there is a =perception that ahollow rod is stiffer because of the reduced weight. A hollow rod =stops andreverses direction quicker because it islighter. To most people casting the rod it feels like it is =stiffer. Darryl ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01BE7C6E.16000760 Chris Wohlford wrote: "On another note, I hear the graphite rod manufactures are = starting toslow their tapers down. Looks taper/action design is = around full circle." been using the IM6 graphite for years while sage et al. have moved up = Winstons top of the line is the IM6 and Sage's entry series is = friend told me, "It just goes to show you that the taper makes all = difference". Soon to be a bamboo convert, Eric -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= <RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= rodsGuys,I'm under the impression = Weight (hollow) + Increased Stiffness (taper & other methods) = fasterline speed. Have I been hanging out with the graphite guys = much?On another note, I hear the graphite rod manufactures = finally starting toslow their tapers down. Looks taper/action = coming around full circle.--Best ....but one thing I would like to add is that there is a perception = To most people casting the rod it feels like it is = Darryl ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01BE7C6E.16000760-- from rclarke@eou.edu Thu Apr 1 18:39:30 1999 16:49:01 -0800 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: RE: Hollow rods How about a hollow built twisted rod? I think Tom Smithwick or Ralph Moon would be the best people to attemptit. Robert Clarke -----Original Message----- Subject: Hollow rods Guys,I'm under the impression that:Lighter Weight (hollow) + Increased Stiffness (taper & other methods) = afasterline speed. Have I been hanging out with the graphite guys too much? On another note, I hear the graphite rod manufactures are finally startingtoslow their tapers down. Looks taper/action design is coming around fullcircle. --Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com ....but one thing I would like to add is that there is a perception that ahollow rod is stiffer because of the reduced weight. A hollow rod stopsandreverses direction quicker because it islighter. To most people casting the rod it feels like it is stiffer. Darryl from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Thu Apr 1 18:53:31 1999 with ESMTP id ;Fri, 2 Apr 1999 00:52:58 +0000 Subject: Re: Other Rod Building Lists Hey TF, There aren't any other lists that I know of that deal with rodmaking inother materials. I would suggest you lurk for a while. There are a lotof parallels here. I also don't think anyone here would mind answeringa basic graphite question or two (although I have been known to be wrongin the past ). You can also e-mail me offlist with any specific questions if you like. I'd be happy to help if I can... Dennis TF wrote: I am new to this list and I was wondering if there are any other rodbuilding lists that deal with rods other than bamboo? Thanks all. from anglport@con2.com Thu Apr 1 22:10:38 1999 Subject: Re: Other Rod Building Lists I sent this directly to the questioner, but there don't seem to be anyothers who know of these so I'm reposting it here.Art From: Art Port Subject: Re: Other Rod Building Lists Try: http://www.flyshop.com/Bulletin/rod_board.htmlhttp://www.Rodbuilding.com./http://members.xoom.com/mleider/rodlink2.html I think you'll find something of interest.Art At 02:30 PM 4/1/99 -0600, you wrote:I am new to this list and I was wondering if there are any other rodbuilding lists that deal with rods other than bamboo? Thanks all. from Nodewrrior@aol.com Thu Apr 1 23:50:36 1999 Subject: Re: dip tube cap Chris,Could you kindly describe in a little more depth the rubber cap with a hose clamp you mentioned? Varnish skin is one of my top 20 or so pet peeves. Thanks, Rob Hoffhines from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Fri Apr 2 01:35:09 1999 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id TAA09471 for ;Fri, 2 Apr 199919:35:01 +1200 Subject: Re:rod marking pens There was some recent comment regarding pens/ink for writing on rods . I have recently used a "Artline" Drawing System felt tiped drafting pen forseveral rods and it is excellent. It is a specialist drafting pen , cost around $6 at a technical stationarysupplier , and I have used it on unvarnished bamboo, it did not show anytendancy to "bleed " into the bamboo, and on varnish where it took verywell. I use the 0.1 size , but it is available in a number of sizes. The description on the pen says it is pigment ink , water based , and ismade by Scachihata in Japan . Description EK-231. Iank from chris@artistree.com Fri Apr 2 02:06:00 1999 Subject: Re: rod marking pens mac-creator="4D4F5353" Ian,I know exactly what you mean. I am now using a similar felt tip pen aswell.It's called a "Millennium" by Zig, size 01, pigment ink, made in Japan.Excellent results. Bought it in a craft store in the wood crafts section ofallplaces. I have many brands of technical pens from my early career as adraftsmanand IMHO they don't work on bamboo nearly as well as these new small felttippens.--Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com Ian Kearney wrote: There was some recent comment regarding pens/ink for writing on rods . I have recently used a "Artline" Drawing System felt tiped drafting penforseveral rods and it is excellent. It is a specialist drafting pen , cost around $6 at a technical stationarysupplier , and I have used it on unvarnished bamboo, it did not show anytendancy to "bleed " into the bamboo, and on varnish where it took verywell. I use the 0.1 size , but it is available in a number of sizes. The description on the pen says it is pigment ink , water based , and ismade by Scachihata in Japan . Description EK-231. Iank from sniderja@email.uc.edu Fri Apr 2 06:37:00 1999 Subject: Re: rod marking pens Will give these a try. My experiences with felt tip pens of the types thathave been described have all been disappointing. For me they do not givethe crisp edges to letters that "hard nosed" drafting pens give, and theink appears "dull." However, will give the Zig pen a try--anything to keep from cleaning those Rapidiograph tips (although they do letter nicely)!J. Snider. At 12:10 AM 4/2/99 +0000, Chris Wohlford wrote:Ian,I know exactly what you mean. I am now using a similar felt tip pen aswell.It's called a "Millennium" by Zig, size 01, pigment ink, made in Japan.Excellent results. Bought it in a craft store in the wood crafts sectionof allplaces. I have many brands of technical pens from my early career as adraftsmanand IMHO they don't work on bamboo nearly as well as these new smallfelt tippens.--Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com Ian Kearney wrote: There was some recent comment regarding pens/ink for writing on rods. I have recently used a "Artline" Drawing System felt tiped drafting penforseveral rods and it is excellent. It is a specialist drafting pen , cost around $6 at a technical stationarysupplier , and I have used it on unvarnished bamboo, it did not show anytendancy to "bleed " into the bamboo, and on varnish where it took verywell. I use the 0.1 size , but it is available in a number of sizes. The description on the pen says it is pigment ink , water based , and ismade by Scachihata in Japan . Description EK-231. Iank from BThoman@neonsoft.com Fri Apr 2 08:51:15 1999 Subject: RE: Filtering Varnish Thanks to all for their replies. Brian from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Fri Apr 2 10:25:37 1999 via smap (4.1) 8:27:40 PST Subject: Re: dip tube cap Rob, It's a flexible, rubber hood cap that fits over the tube. A.J. Thramer suggested I try it several months ago. I think it is called "Kwik Cap". I can't recall the manufacturer, but I bought mine at Home Depot. It has the shape of a thermos lid with a lip around the open base to keep the hose clamp from sliding off when it's not tight. The diameter is about 1/2"more then the dip tube in my case, and the caps come in a variety of diameters. When you tighten the hose clamp you get a good seal. The hose clamp acts as a belt around the waist of the cap. After sitting a while the top of the cap will actually recess into the tube a little, like a canning jar. It has never skimmed over, and I've left it sealed for up to a month at a time in a 72 degree room. The dip tube I use is one of those old "one size fits all" lightweight aluminum ribbed tubes. It has a plastic cap at the bottom and a plastic collar. I cut the collar off at the top and sealed the seam at the bottom with Devcon epoxy. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from rmoon@ida.net Fri Apr 2 12:07:59 1999 0000 Subject: Rod ID I just had a gentleman bring a rod to me for examination. It is a 12'3/2 calcutta sold as a Frost's Kelso. I know that Frost did not makerods, but sold them. Some of his rods were made by Divine and some byKosmic. The rod can be pretty well dated as 1895 to 1900. It has afull n/s slide band reel seat, good quality n/s ferrules (not the Kosmictype) and tunnel guides. Full intermediates but rather large nearly1/8" wide. One tip appears to be a factory replacement, and varies fromthe original in that the intermediates are only about 5-6 turns ofthread. My impression is that the rod looks more like divine thanKosmic, but it is my impression that the Kelso was the high end line forFrost. Any ideas and anyone want to take a flying leap on value. Therod is in good condition. No breaks no hook digs. It does appear thatsomeone has overcoated a few of the spots where the varnish has beenchipped, but the finish is in good condition. The man also had a rare reel. A Yawman and Erbe that is apparantly thefirst model of automatic in that it shows the patent dates of 1880 and1881 of Loomis Plumb and Company. I have pretty well established thatdate of the reel between 1885 and 1891. It is is perfecct workingorder. Any ideas of its value?? Thanks for any help Ralph from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Fri Apr 2 12:48:18 1999 0500 Subject: David LeClaire's phone Does anyone have David LeClaire's business telephone number? Thanksin advance... from jkallo@midwest.net Fri Apr 2 12:56:25 1999 Subject: Waves Hi all, I have a question for the list concerning the action of rods. I havenoticed that the tips of certain rods will, when cast, vibrate for a secondor two after the forward cast throwing a series of waves into the line.This is even more observable when taking these rods and giving them awiggle: some rods will come to rest almost as soon as your hand stopsmoving them while others will carry on the series of vibrations for acouple of seconds. I have seen this phenomenon in both plastic and cane--itdoesn't seem related to the material the rods are made from, in fact Ithink Orvis's Trident rods are supposed to be designed to eliminate justthis sort of thing. My question for the list is this: what causes a rod to continue vibratingafter hand motion ceases? I see several possibilities: 1. Craftsmanship: Somewhere in Garrison there is a passage about Garytaking all new rods out and casting them to see if they exhibit thistendency. Krieder says outright that accuracy in planing helps achieve a'good' rod--i.e. a rod which comes to rest quickly. (23)2. Materials: Perhaps internal inconsistencies in the cane allow theoscillations to occur?3. Taper: The rod I really noticed this in was Wayne's Force while my rodbuilt to Chris's Shennendoah Sweetheart comes to rest the quickest. Thetaper on these two rods is pretty similar, however. I have a really slowFenwick glass rod which comes to rest quickly while an Orvis Superfine Ifished recently would continue to vibrate for seconds4. Casting ability: I've noticed that I can actually cause some rods whichhave the tendency to wiggle after the forward cast to actually come torestmore quickly by using a more loose grip on the cork--I guess allowing myhand to dampen the motion. Sorry for the long-windedness but this is something I find veryinteresting. I'd rather fish a rod which comes to rest as quickly aspossible as it really seems to improve the accuracy of a cast as well assimply feeling more 'there'-- maybe this is what Krieder was talking aboutwhen he refers to a rod's "life" or "backbone." Best,Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from rmoon@ida.net Fri Apr 2 14:11:18 1999 0000 Subject: Re: Waves Joe What a can of worms !!! This is the sort of discussion that can go on forever, but it is thekind I like. So here goes. Just some observations and no real data for support. 1. I have found the the modulus of elasticity plays a part. Generallythe higher the modulus the quicker recovery. I have found thatfiberglass rods generally are most prone to prolonged oscillation 2. I know design plays a major part 3. I know casting stroke plays a major part. I am going to tell you a couple of stories to let you know why I thinkso. I built an 8' rod once that had a rather fine tip. I was pleasedwith the rod. It threw a long line and the line left the rod straight.The guy who got the rod was distinctly unhappy. Why?? Every time hecast he cast a bundle of sine waves. I told him he was casting too hardand should relax and let the rod do the job. No help, yet I showed himthat it would cast a straight line. Culmination I had to make him abaseball sized tip that wouldn't deflect under his stroke. It ruinedthe rod. One of my early rods was an extreme parabolic 8' I loved it! I couldback cast, and read one of Lamb's essays before I had to start theforward cast. The line had a bow of only 8-10" and sped like a bullet.I had an accomplished casting instructor cast it, which he did in .3567Seconds. The line was all over him. After two more tries he turned tohe and said "No damned good" A good friend of mine tried it last summerfell in love with the rod and bought it against my protests. a fewweeks later at home he outcast a Sage and went well into the backingwith only a couple of false casts. Perhaps you can see why I think that we won't get the subject solved.. Ralph from hhholland@erols.com Fri Apr 2 14:38:32 1999 Subject: Re: David LeClaire's phone Dave's phone no. is 315-689-7896. He's home evenings and weekends.Hank H. -----Original Message----- Subject: David LeClaire's phone Does anyone have David LeClaire's business telephone number? Thanksinadvance... from chris@artistree.com Fri Apr 2 14:44:22 1999 Subject: Re: rod marking pens mac-creator="4D4F5353" Jerry,You might also want to try burnishing the area you intend to write on withthefinest steel wool. This seems to smooth out the surface and leave a slightoilyreside that fills in the pores? I used to rub a bit of olive oil in then Iswitched to the steel wool. It makes surface easier to write and clean upif youmake a mistake. Might not matter as much for block lettering but I'mlettering ina script. Hope it works for you. --Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com Jerry Snider wrote: Will give these a try. My experiences with felt tip pens of the types thathave been described have all been disappointing. For me they do not givethe crisp edges to letters that "hard nosed" drafting pens give, and theink appears "dull." However, will give the Zig pen a try--anything to keep from cleaning those Rapidiograph tips (although they do letter nicely)!J. Snider. from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Apr 2 14:52:56 1999 Subject: Re: Waves jkallo@midwest.net In a message dated 4/2/99 8:13:17 PM, rmoon@ida.net wrote: I don't think so either, but for what it's worth I also think it is a function of material, taper and casting technique. For example, whencasting my Garrison tapers, I get the little single wave he talks about in the book, and I can't make it go away no matter what I do. But when casting thehollow built DeLespinay, which is very stout, I can't get the wave if I try. In this case it's the taper.Joe, the technique of relaxing the hand to help the rod damp is animportant one, you should be doing it all the time. Your grip should gradually tighten as you make a power stroke, but as soon as you stop the rod, your handshould relax a bit. This will help damp the rod, and also keep your arm from becoming tired. The best explanation I have ever seen of muscle control in casting is in Charles Ritz's "A Flyfisher's Life". I highly recommend it. from jaquin@netsync.net Fri Apr 2 19:29:59 1999 Subject: Re: Waves Joseph S.Kallo wrote: Hi all, I have a question for the list concerning the action of rods. I havenoticed that the tips of certain rods will, when cast, vibrate for asecondor two after the forward cast throwing a series of waves into the line.This is even more observable when taking these rods and giving them awiggle: some rods will come to rest almost as soon as your hand stopsmoving them while others will carry on the series of vibrations for acouple of seconds. I have seen this phenomenon in both plastic and cane--itdoesn't seem related to the material the rods are made from, in fact Ithink Orvis's Trident rods are supposed to be designed to eliminate justthis sort of thing. My question for the list is this: what causes a rod to continue vibratingafter hand motion ceases? I see several possibilities: 1. Craftsmanship: Somewhere in Garrison there is a passage about Garytaking all new rods out and casting them to see if they exhibit thistendency. Krieder says outright that accuracy in planing helps achieve a'good' rod--i.e. a rod which comes to rest quickly. (23)2. Materials: Perhaps internal inconsistencies in the cane allow theoscillations to occur?3. Taper: The rod I really noticed this in was Wayne's Force while my rodbuilt to Chris's Shennendoah Sweetheart comes to rest the quickest. Thetaper on these two rods is pretty similar, however. I have a really slowFenwick glass rod which comes to rest quickly while an Orvis SuperfineIfished recently would continue to vibrate for seconds4. Casting ability: I've noticed that I can actually cause some rods whichhave the tendency to wiggle after the forward cast to actually come torestmore quickly by using a more loose grip on the cork--I guess allowing myhand to dampen the motion. Sorry for the long-windedness but this is something I find veryinteresting. I'd rather fish a rod which comes to rest as quickly aspossible as it really seems to improve the accuracy of a cast as well assimply feeling more 'there'-- maybe this is what Krieder was talkingaboutwhen he refers to a rod's "life" or "backbone." Best,Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondalehi joe, your loose grip experimentation is interesting. it's justopposite of what the salt-water graphite boys have to say about roddampening. the quickest way to dampen the rod and not throw waves inyour line is to tighten your grip. of course they're throwing 8 t0 12wt lines or shooting heads long distances. but hey it works for them!jerry from jaquin@netsync.net Fri Apr 2 19:33:10 1999 Subject: Re: Waves Ralph W Moon wrote: Joe What a can of worms !!! This is the sort of discussion that can go on forever, but it is thekind I like. So here goes. Just some observations and no real data for support. 1. I have found the the modulus of elasticity plays a part. Generallythe higher the modulus the quicker recovery. I have found thatfiberglass rods generally are most prone to prolonged oscillation 2. I know design plays a major part 3. I know casting stroke plays a major part. I am going to tell you a couple of stories to let you know why I thinkso. I built an 8' rod once that had a rather fine tip. I was pleasedwith the rod. It threw a long line and the line left the rod straight.The guy who got the rod was distinctly unhappy. Why?? Every time hecast he cast a bundle of sine waves. I told him he was casting too hardand should relax and let the rod do the job. No help, yet I showed himthat it would cast a straight line. Culmination I had to make him abaseball sized tip that wouldn't deflect under his stroke. It ruinedthe rod. One of my early rods was an extreme parabolic 8' I loved it! I couldback cast, and read one of Lamb's essays before I had to start theforward cast. The line had a bow of only 8-10" and sped like a bullet.I had an accomplished casting instructor cast it, which he did in .3567Seconds. The line was all over him. After two more tries he turned tohe and said "No damned good" A good friend of mine tried it last summerfell in love with the rod and bought it against my protests. a fewweeks later at home he outcast a Sage and went well into the backingwith only a couple of false casts. Perhaps you can see why I think that we won't get the subject solved.. Ralphhi ralph wonderful story! how about posting the dimensions for thatrod. i assumed you built another one! tia jerry from saweiss@flash.net Fri Apr 2 20:39:12 1999 Subject: Re: Waves Hi all, I have a question for the list concerning the action of rods. I havenoticed that the tips of certain rods will, when cast, vibrate for a secondor two after the forward cast throwing a series of waves into the line. Group,No one yet has commented on changing line weight. Several rods that Icast(a couple of mine included) that cast waves off the tip responded verywellwhen I increased the line one weight. Even became dramatically better,casttighter loops with higher lines speed and less casting force required.Any comments on matching line weight? This undoubtedly is a variableassociated with casting style as well.Steve from rsgould@cmc.net Fri Apr 2 21:44:48 1999 Subject: Waves Hi Joe,The questions you pose about wave action and rod vibration are ones thathave plagued rod builders for years. One of the advantages of using bambooin the first place was to utilize its self dampening characteristics yetthe problem persists. I'd like to refer you to two articles addressing thisproblem at least in part. The first is "The Masters Guide to Building aBamboo Fly Rod" on pages 272-277 and the second is a short piece in mybook"Constructing Cane Rods:..." on page 34. The essence is that the situationcan be addressed by the taper design and though it may seem a bit complexthe solutions are not too difficult. Basically the correction seems to beto choose a stress curve that is a light parabolic or something closer tothe straight line stress curve. You can select the type of stress curve youwant very nicely by inputing the appropriate stresses when using WayneCattanach's rod design program. The result will be a reduction orelimination of the wave action.Ray from dpeaston@wzrd.com Sat Apr 3 09:32:33 1999 Subject: Re: Waves At 07:44 PM 4/2/1999 -0800, Ray Gould wrote:Hi Joe,The questions you pose about wave action and rod vibration are ones thathave plagued rod builders for years. One of the advantages of usingbambooin the first place was to utilize its self dampening characteristics yetthe problem persists. I'd like to refer you to two articles addressing thisproblem at least in part. The first is "The Masters Guide to Building aBamboo Fly Rod" on pages 272-277 and the second is a short piece in mybook"Constructing Cane Rods:..." on page 34. The essence is that the situationcan be addressed by the taper design and though it may seem a bitcomplexthe solutions are not too difficult. Basically the correction seems to beto choose a stress curve that is a light parabolic or something closer tothe straight line stress curve. You can select the type of stress curve youwant very nicely by inputing the appropriate stresses when using WayneCattanach's rod design program. The result will be a reduction orelimination of the wave action.Ray GLUE? Do the new plastic glues reduce the damping or increase it? Seemstome the harder the glue, eg. some epoxies, the worse the waves. Wholethingshould be temperature dependant. Higher tempe better damping. JMHO,-DougDoug EastonTonawanda, NY from WmFMack@aol.com Sat Apr 3 15:42:41 1999 Subject: Re: Slapping cane Do you slap it down like you are stopping a cast at the surface of thetable? from stpete@netten.net Sat Apr 3 15:53:31 1999 Subject: Lathe newbie OK, I've gone and done it! I got tired of seeing beautiful rods that tookoff to the left or right at the ferrule due to hand fitting the ferrules(I'm not a patient man). After searching the archives for informatinoand the want ads for lathes, I broke down and bought one. I just camehome from the Grizzly Imports Distribution Center in Memphis with a7"x10" mini- lathe. It's the same one that Harbor Freight sells for$399. Grizzly has them on close out for $349 and I picked up a returnedunit for $244 new. The archives listed a thread that had a hobbyist's evaluation of thethis same unit from when he first set it up and used it. He also hadanother evaluation of it a year later. He had good things to say aboutit overall. The owner returned this particular unit because the head stock andtailstock did not line up well at all. I took the tailstock off andlooked under the slide 'V' and found a 1/8" thick wad of what appearedto be polishing compound stuck to the metal. I picked that off with myfingernail, stuck the tailstock back on, tightened it, and voila! itlined up perfectly to the naked eye. I talked to a tech in their PAcenter, he says you just about have to fine tune the things anyway. My questions: (1) does anyone recommend a good book to get started on running a metallathe? I have an old South bend book. (2) any other advice or website info on getting started? (3) what tool does one use to turn down ferrule stations? (4) anyone else use this lathe - any other tips? (5) how would you finish trueing up the headstock to the tailstock? Thanks, Rick C. from rsgould@cmc.net Sat Apr 3 19:07:16 1999 Subject: Glue effect on waves Hi Doug, You pose an interesting question as to the effect of a particular glue onthe wave propagation for a rod section. I suspect a glue that has elasticproperties close to that of the cane itself would be the most desireable,so that the tendency of the strips to slide past each other under loadwould be uniform with that of the cane. I suppose testing would be verydifficult although one might rig up a bench deflection test and check thenatural frequency of vibration for identical sections using various glues. from my observations I'm going to stay with Urac 185 for all the otherreasons such as color, hardness compatibility, strength, water resistance,and a long history of success.Ray from rcurry@ttlc.net Sat Apr 3 20:10:25 1999 (SMTPD32-5.01 EVAL) id A9F728BC0106; Sat, 03 Apr 1999 21:09:59 EST Subject: Re: Slapping cane Bill,I took the section by the butt and used a good forearm swing, todevelop centrifugal force. In the final few inches making sure it is almostparallel to the table before releasing it; the butt should strike first,but not by much, just a hair. This was the way I was told by an oldtimerthat it was done, and it works. If there is a slight bow to one side afterthefirstthrow, turn it 90 degrees (so that the bow is down) and do it again.Best regards,Reed WmFMack@aol.com wrote: Do you slap it down like you are stopping a cast at the surface of thetable? from chris@artistree.com Sun Apr 4 01:27:40 1999 Subject: Re: Lathe newbie mac-creator="4D4F5353" Rick,Good for you. Go tohttp://www.artistree.com/SplitCaneLibrary/videos.htmand scroll down to "Other" to locate the U.S Army Manual on setting up andusing a lathe. One of the best intro guides I've ever seen. Regards,Chris Rick Crenshaw wrote: (2) any other advice or website info on getting started? from rmoon@ida.net Sun Apr 4 10:15:11 1999 0000 Subject: quiet? Just wondering if I have been bumped or if everybody is just quiet?Ralph from RVenneri@aol.com Sun Apr 4 10:19:48 1999 Subject: Re: quiet? Ralph,It is very quiet. But I got your post. I thought I was bumped too. Happy Easter to all.Best regards,Bob VVenneri's21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477rvenneri@aol.com914 246 5882http://hometown.aol.com/RVenneri/index.html from cotner@novagate.com Sun Apr 4 10:43:24 1999 Subject: Re: quiet? Ralph - Your message came through for me so you must not be bumped. Easter,looming tax deadlines, etc., may cut into the list's participationtoday.Regards,Roger CotnerGrand Haven, Michigan Ralph W Moon wrote: Just wondering if I have been bumped or if everybody is just quiet?Ralph from maxs@geocities.co.jp Sun Apr 4 11:10:36 1999 bysv01.geocities.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W) with ESMTP id BAA08725; Mon, 5Apr 1999 01:10:22 +0900(JST) mail.geocities.co.jp (1.3G-8.9.3/GeocitiesJ-3.0) with ESMTP id BAA18058;Mon, 5 Apr 199901:10:21 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: quiet? Ralph, I received your message. You may not be bumped but list is just quiet.Max Ralph W Moon wrote: Just wondering if I have been bumped or if everybody is just quiet?Ralph -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Apr 4 11:39:09 1999 Subject: Re: Lathe newbie Rick,The best way to true the tail stock to the head stock is,to mount a bar into the lathe, steel, N/S or Brass, doesn'tmatter. Turn the length of bar from end to end. Measure the bar at both ends. If the right side is Smaller than the left sideadjust the tail stock away from you. If the right side is largerthan the left side, adjust the tail stock towards you. Keepdoing this until Both ends are exactly the same diameter.There should be set screws on the front and back of thetail stock. By loosening one and tightening the other one,you can adjust the tail stock back and forth. This will line up the tail stock exactly with the head stock. Dave LeClair from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Apr 4 11:43:19 1999 Subject: Re: quiet? Ralph,I'm reading you OK. The list is a little slow today.I've only had around 15 e-mails. If you didn't get any, youmay have been bumped off. Try getting off the list and thensign back on. Dave L. from rmoon@ida.net Sun Apr 4 12:52:53 1999 Subject: Re: quiet? Dave I must be off. All I have received are answers to inquiry and theone message on Lathes that you sent out. I will try to unsubscribe andresubscribe. Thanks everybodyRalph from gaff@carol.net Sun Apr 4 13:13:14 1999 Sun, 4 Apr 1999 14:13:05 -0400 Subject: Re: quiet? Ralph W Moon wrote: Dave I must be off. All I have received are answers to inquiry and theone message on Lathes that you sent out. I will try to unsubscribe andresubscribe. Thanks everybodyRalphit appears that is all i recieved too- might be a slow day--wil from jczimny@dol.net Sun Apr 4 14:22:20 1999 0400 "stpete@netten.net","rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: RE: Lathe newbie Right Dave. That is the time honored method of aligning head and tailstocks. HoweverBrownell's sells two buttons that make this process a snap. The operatorinserts the twobuttons between two centers then measures the diameter of the twobuttons together. Since thediameter of the buttons is exactly the same, any increase in the diametermeasured togetherindicates that the two stocks are out of alignment. The process is fast andvery accurate.John Z -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Lathe newbie Rick,The best way to true the tail stock to the head stock is,to mount a bar into the lathe, steel, N/S or Brass, doesn'tmatter. Turn the length of bar from end to end. Measure the bar at both ends. If the right side is Smaller than the left sideadjust the tail stock away from you. If the right side is largerthan the left side, adjust the tail stock towards you. Keepdoing this until Both ends are exactly the same diameter.There should be set screws on the front and back of thetail stock. By loosening one and tightening the other one,you can adjust the tail stock back and forth. This will line up the tail stock exactly with the head stock. Dave LeClair from gink@valint.net Sun Apr 4 17:42:29 1999 (206.107.176.142) Subject: Bas*tard Greetings Just looking in on all of you old folks. Paul Whitely and I (Mr. G.)have been out in the Rod Lab tweaking the New Bas*tard tapers that havemany interested. We are in production as we speak. We hope you allhave a great weekend and Easter. Incidentally, a picture of the firstBas*tard Bamboo Fly Rod will be on my web site soon. www.gink.comThanks all --- George & Paul -- Visit: http://www.gink.comhttp://www.xink.comhttp://www.rodbuilding.comhttp://www.rodbuilder.com All Writings & Rights Reserved1999 by George GehrkeNo writings or quotes may beused whole or in part withoutthe specific permission ofthis author. from rsgould@cmc.net Sun Apr 4 22:38:32 1999 Subject: Orvis Taper Thought you might like to add another taper to your collection. This one is made by Wes Jordan himself and is an impregnated rod with a cork gripwherethe diameter at the front is turned right down to the rod diameter and thereel seat is a standard Orvis down lock.0 - .0755 - .09410 - .11115 - .12220 - .13325 - .14130 - .15235 - .16440 - .18045 - .19750 - .20955 - .21860 - .23065 - .24570 - .262 extrapolated75 - .277 extrapolated79 - .292 extrapolatedIf you plot a graph of this data you'll see two little humps in the curvetypical of other Orvis rod I've checked. Ray from richjez@enteract.com Sun Apr 4 22:48:29 1999 Does anyone know where i can get a 60 degree rourter bit? ThanksRich Jezioro *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ /||/______/_||_________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Mon Apr 5 02:07:36 1999 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id TAA17689 for ;Mon, 5 Apr 199919:07:24 +1200 Subject: Re: Bas*tard Greetings LOL... now this should get the list humming when everyone returns fromtheirEaster break . Iank At 03:42 PM 4/04/99 -0700, Mr. G wrote:Just looking in on all of you old folks. Paul Whitely and I (Mr. G.)have been out in the Rod Lab tweaking the New Bas*tard tapers that havemany interested. We are in production as we speak. We hope you allhave a great weekend and Easter. Incidentally, a picture of the firstBas*tard Bamboo Fly Rod will be on my web site soon. www.gink.comThanks all --- George & Paul -- Visit: http://www.gink.comhttp://www.xink.comhttp://www.rodbuilding.comhttp://www.rodbuilder.com All Writings & Rights Reserved1999 by George GehrkeNo writings or quotes may beused whole or in part withoutthe specific permission ofthis author. from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Mon Apr 5 07:38:49 1999 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1998.03.08.20.27)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, Subject: RE: Hi Rich, I ordered mine from Lee Valley tools at 1 (800) 267-8767. The partnumberis: 16j14.01 and the cost was $23.75 Cdn, that's about $15.75 U.S. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Sunday, April 04, 1999 11:46 PM Subject: Does anyone know where i can get a 60 degree rourter bit?ThanksRich Jezioro*________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@ /||/______/_||_________________________________________||/\/ \ > > / \ > from emiller257@dataflo.net Mon Apr 5 08:05:05 1999 wddataflo.dataflo.net(8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA06114; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 08:18:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Bas*tard Greetings Ian Kearney wrote: LOL... now this should get the list humming when everyone returns fromtheirEaster break . Iank At 03:42 PM 4/04/99 -0700, Mr. G wrote:Just looking in on all of you old folks. Paul Whitely and I (Mr. G.)have been out in the Rod Lab tweaking the New Bas*tard tapers thathavemany interested. We are in production as we speak. We hope you allhave a great weekend and Easter. Incidentally, a picture of the firstBas*tard Bamboo Fly Rod will be on my web site soon. www.gink.comThanks all --- George & Paul -- Visit: http://www.gink.comhttp://www.xink.comhttp://www.rodbuilding.comhttp://www.rodbuilder.com All Writings & Rights Reserved1999 by George GehrkeNo writings or quotes may beused whole or in part withoutthe specific permission ofthis author. He sure has a pile of nerve.I think the best we could all do is ignore Mr. Bas*tard and let him go belly up with his tapers where they belong. Ed Miller. from jkallo@midwest.net Mon Apr 5 11:43:56 1999 Subject: ferrules Hey Tony, I am considering ordering four sets of ferrules from you for rods I have inprogress. I am wondering what sort of schedule you are working onnow(i.e.how long should it take for me to receive the ferrules in the central USafter placing the order). I would need two sets of 9/64, a set of 13/64,and a 14/64. I forgot to ask if you did them when we last conversed aboutthis but I'd a truncated size if you are able to make them that way. I'd beable to provide you a credit card for payment (easing the problem of theexchange rate). Thanks,Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from BThoman@neonsoft.com Mon Apr 5 11:55:16 1999 Subject: Home Grown Bamboo I made a mention a while back about a guy I work with who said he hadlotsof bamboo growing at home in Pennsylvania. He came over last night andsawmy supply of bamboo and said that the stuff on his farm is identical. Itold him I wanted bamboo with node spacing from eight to twenty inchesandhe said none of it's really closer than a foot. His dad said they havestuff growing right now that is a minimum of three inches in diameter atthebase and over two inches at the top and that some is as high at 18 feetalthough it averages 15. His dad makes a fireline and burns the stuff, it'slike a weed! It was planted about ten years ago as cover for his ducks (he has a penwithevery puddle duck in N. America). He's going back home in two months andsaid he'll bring some back in the moving van. He's going to try to get hisdad to get some close up pictures to mail me. I told him that if it's whathe says it is that there will be a market for it. He said if his dad canget money for it he'll let it grow over 50-100 acres! When I find out moreI'll let you know. Brian ThomanThe Chattahoochee River Rod CompanyParker, Coloradohttp://www.bambooflyrods.com(303) 805-5733 from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Apr 5 14:54:49 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:54:46 -0500 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Home Grown Bamboo Brian,Here in Louisiana, bamboo grows wild - acres and acres of it. As youmightguess, there's a story here.About 18 months ago, I cut about a pickup truck sized load of the localcane. I thought I could make rod cases out of it if nothing else. The more Ilooked at it, the more suitable it seemed for rodmaking. It was 2"-3" indiameter, had beautiful color after drying, and what looked to me likesufficient power fibers to make a rod. The nodes were 6" - 16" in a 12footpiece.When the Southern Rodmakers Gathering got going last fall, I decided totake a little of the local cane with me so others might see it. Severalguysgathered around it and said they thought it would make a rod. Even thoughnoneof us could tell the Louisiana cane from Tonkin, apparently none of usreallyknew our cane.The instant Harold Demarest walked up and saw my cane, he said,"What'sthat?" Being naturally sarcastic, I said, "Bamboo, of course." Haroldimmediately said, "Well, it's not Tonkin Cane, and it's not going to be anygood manner totell me more than I every dreamed there was to know about Tonkin Cane.The local cane does make a nice rod case, but after Harold'sinstructions, Iprobably won't waste the time necessary to make a rod out of it. Yourcane maybe different, but I'd be suspicious. The best way to identify it is takesometo a local University and ask their plant folks for help.Just trying to help,Harry from Ed.Estlow@co.hennepin.mn.us Mon Apr 5 15:29:16 1999 1999 20:28:30 UT 16-1998)) id8625674A.007049B0 ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:26:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Home Grown Bamboo Harry, At the risk of asking you to write a small novel to the list, could you giveashort explanation of Mr. Demarest's criteria for "good cane for makingrods" andwhy he found yours lacking? I'm sure I'm not the only one on the list who'scurious. As an addendum to the request, I believe I can recall a few others on thelistdiscussing making rods with other than Tonkin cane. Respectfully and only curious, and withBest regards,-Ed Estlow Harry Boyd on 04/05/99 02:54:36 PM Please respond to fbcwin@fsbnet.com cc: Subject: Re: Home Grown Bamboo Brian,Here in Louisiana, bamboo grows wild - acres and acres of it. As youmightguess, there's a story here.About 18 months ago, I cut about a pickup truck sized load of the localcane. I thought I could make rod cases out of it if nothing else. The more Ilooked at it, the more suitable it seemed for rodmaking. It was 2"-3" indiameter, had beautiful color after drying, and what looked to me likesufficient power fibers to make a rod. The nodes were 6" - 16" in a 12footpiece.When the Southern Rodmakers Gathering got going last fall, I decided totake a little of the local cane with me so others might see it. Severalguysgathered around it and said they thought it would make a rod. Even thoughnoneof us could tell the Louisiana cane from Tonkin, apparently none of usreallyknew our cane.The instant Harold Demarest walked up and saw my cane, he said,"What'sthat?" Being naturally sarcastic, I said, "Bamboo, of course." Haroldimmediately said, "Well, it's not Tonkin Cane, and it's not going to be anygood manner totell me more than I every dreamed there was to know about Tonkin Cane.The local cane does make a nice rod case, but after Harold'sinstructions, Iprobably won't waste the time necessary to make a rod out of it. Yourcane maybe different, but I'd be suspicious. The best way to identify it is takesometo a local University and ask their plant folks for help.Just trying to help,Harry from jkallo@midwest.net Mon Apr 5 16:09:24 1999 Subject: Sorry Old email+the reply button= stupid mistakes Joe Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from mschaffer@mindspring.com Mon Apr 5 16:13:14 1999 Subject: Doing it with sole. Ok guys, I know, bad pun but the list has been a little slow. Besides, I'ma rookie---that's my story and I'm sticking to it! :^) Anyway, I started to work on my hand plane blades last night using 400,600,and 1500 grit wet or dry sandpaper (used dry). Wow what a difference! Istill have to go at them with my wet stones, but I was wondering if thisshould also be the way to do the soles of the planes themselves, andshouldthe soles be taken all the way to 8000 grit on a wet stone. I didn't have apiece of glass to use as a backing plate so I used my surface plate which Iknow to be flat within .00001 inches. Any help would be muchoappreciated!! Mike Doc (Mike Shaffer)(mschaffer@mindspring.com) from brookie@frii.com Mon Apr 5 16:32:10 1999 Subject: One piece cane Hello rodmakers, I was looking in my file for this rodmakers list, searching for the postingaddress, and noted your listmeister has said, " there are no stupidquestions, just those not asked ... " . The problem is, I've not been onthe list very long, so imagine that this next two sets of questions HAVEbeen asked and discussed. Selfishly, would be interested in answers.If you prefer, drop me a private line. For those of you that have seenthis post on another list, apologies. First one, I'm the person that was in need to minor repair to a cane thathad separted from it's ferrule. Happy to report the fortunate conclusionto that story. I drove up to Mike Clark's place in Lyons this a.m. topick up my Constable. She's looking good and happy. So happy ? We'reheaded to the Vrain tomorrow. Tell you rightly, Mike did a nice job,pinned the ferrule back on, revarnished, and straightened the slight bendhe said I had in the upper section . Whatta deal . And for very cheapbill, and done quickly, a week. When I first called and got his assistanta week ago, she and I hadn't met, so she was giving me the standard rapthat it might be two months before he could get to it ... arrrgh. While there I was chatting with him about shorter cane rods. Asked himif he did the 6'6" size and he said, "yes, as matter of fact, there's anew one piece I'm working on ". It was 6'6" and 3 wt. and it was a beautyof a one piece !! I don't feel comfortable milling around in his shopbecause I know he's busy, and he and I know that *I* will never be able toafford one of his rods, but today, I managed a few extra minutes.Intrigued and knowing nothing about one pieces, I asked him for theadvantages. Quick answer : wonderful smooth casting, with no intermediary ferrule(s)to break the motion. Makes total sense to me. Some canes, move like abreeze, fluid, and should think a one piece would be perhaps more like that. "Disadvantage?", I ask. "Transporting it ", he says. "No kidding ! " Actually the same chap he is building the 6'6" for has another one, larger,one piece 5 wt 7'6". The smooth action intriques me though. He DID have some other onepiecersout front in the rack, but those things are old cane that sells for alotand I wouldn't dare pick it up and cast it. Not to say in thefuture I wouldn't. Why I remember just two years ago I was fretting andwhining about casting ANY cane ! and here I am now, with my favorite rodmade from panda-fodder ! :-))) Bottom line here ? What do some of you makers think of one piece canerods? Have any yourself, how do they fish ? As well as it sounds they might? As I said, private emails are fine. suecolorado, the northern tier from brookie@frii.com Mon Apr 5 16:38:57 1999 Subject: Replicating a cane, in the future And post number two :realizing that most canebuilders might at one timeor another 'copy'tapers and measurements of other makes, as well as coming up with theirown. looking down the line, if I should lose or break my cane, I'll kick myself find another of the original builder's rods in same model, size, etc. back to replication by another builder however -- this IS possible yes ?( rhetorical somewhat ). I guess the question would be, is it futile toexpect that although a builder would match the measurements/taper, thattherod would not be very close to the one I have ? things like hardware orthat particular cut of cane might affect it such that it would NOT performas I know the 'original' ? in the graphites I don't see that much difference between likemodels/weights. If I buy a 3 wt xyz, buy another a year later, same same,it WILL act and perform as the first one did. is it so with cane ? planning ahead, it wouldn't be a bad idea to put together some savings tohave a favorite cane replicated, BEFORE something untoward happens... suecolorado from rsgould@cmc.net Mon Apr 5 16:46:34 1999 Subject: Home Grown Bamboo Hi Harry,If you do go to the trouble of taking some of that Louisiana cane to alocal university for identification it might also be a good idea to asktheir engineering testing materials lab to run some tests for you todetermine the physical properties of the cane as compared to ArundinariaAmabalis. Have them test both and determine the density, hardness, thenumber of power fibers per square inch adjacent to the enamel, the tensilestrength and the modulus of elasticity. Then you could compare the twomaterials on a scientific basis.Ray from jpsnbs@erols.com Mon Apr 5 16:49:34 1999 Subject: Local Bamboo I started making rods in 1991 and to date only have completed 26 rods,however, the first four(4) I made were built using bamboo harvested fromMaryland. The exact species is unknown but I fish two of them exclusivelyand they are comparible to any I have made with Tonkin. Don't overlookother cane alternatives for those who are just starting out. You will savea few bucks, can proceed with a little for energy and confidence withoutfear of screwing up the few culms of tonkin you have and you will end upwith fishable and unique rods.Just my $.02Joe Swam from rsgould@cmc.net Mon Apr 5 17:13:17 1999 Subject: One piece rods Hi Sue,Glad to hear you have the old "Constable" repaired and back in actionagain. There's nothing quite as good as fishing with a favorite fly rod,it's kind of like putting on an old pair of slippers- they're justcomfortable!As to the one piece rod question it's true that the rod will flex a littlemore uniformly and will be a little lighter weight. The actual stresses inthe rod that are caused by the weight of ferrule are about 7% of the totalstress in the rod. So as far as stress is concerned it's not a big factorbut it is something. The portability factor is in my estimation much moreimportant. It is simply easier to deal with a rod case that's four to fourand one half feet long than one that's seven to nine foot long. I'mthinking of packing the vehicle for a trip, going back packing or going onan airplane. I do however make most of my rods with only one ferrule justto keep the weight down and for simplicity sake. What you have done hascaused me to think it is time we started work on some light weightferrules Ray from gwbarnes@gwi.net Mon Apr 5 17:30:53 1999 Subject: Old Time Reel Does anyone have any information on old Bishop Auckland Reels? I've notyet seen the one in question but it's reported to be all brass, acquiredat an estate auction in Massachusetts, probably 40 to 50 years ago. George from Paradise52@aol.com Mon Apr 5 17:50:45 1999 Subject: Re: Bas*tard Greetings Hum, Hum Hum!Mark from Paradise52@aol.com Mon Apr 5 17:53:41 1999 Subject: Re: Bas*tard Greetings All,I especially enjoyed the copyright notice!M. from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Apr 5 18:27:29 1999 Subject: Re: Home Grown Bamboo You won't know for sure until you try it. Do it! Darryl from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Apr 5 19:08:22 1999 Subject: Re: Re: Home Grown Bamboo rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu As Darryl says."Do it!". Joe Swam makes some nice rods and if he's madesome comparable to Tonkin, who knows,we might have a local source. Don't letthe "experts" deter you. Just my $.02,Hank W. from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Mon Apr 5 19:55:47 1999 with ESMTP id Subject: Low gloss finish Hi all, I know there has been some talk a while ago about tung oil finishes onbamboo rods. I think it was Darryl that said a customer told him to"call him after it was finished" when he showed him the tung oilfinish. Anyway... I am sitting here knocking down the gloss on the second coatof varnish on my first attempt and was wondering: Has anyone ever gone even used a satin varnish? Maybe it's just me, but I think that looksrather nice on a light colored rod like mine and you still get thequalities of a varnish finish. Just curious... TIA, Dennis from djk762@hotmail.com Mon Apr 5 22:30:17 1999 Mon, 05 Apr 1999 20:27:58 PDT Subject: Heat gun tempering oven. Rodmakers,I am in the planning stages of building a tempering oven that will utilize the heat gun that I will be using for node straightening. Any suggestions on design or comments about the concept of moving hot air Thanks all.Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from WmFMack@aol.com Mon Apr 5 22:53:13 1999 Subject: Re: RE: Lathe newbie rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu One of the mail order catalogs I get advertises a two ended #2 Morse taper that is supposed to help you align the tail stock. Anyone have experience with one of those, pro or con? from jfoster@gte.net Mon Apr 5 23:19:56 1999 Subject: [Fwd: spinning rods 8 and 9 feet] boundary="------------4F17225131B1ACEEC025C048" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 4F17225131B1ACEEC025C048 mac-creator="4D4F5353" --------------4F17225131B1ACEEC025C048 (InterMail v03.02.04 118 119) with ESMTP Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:33:43 -0500 Organization: Rijksuniversiteit Groningen Subject: spinning rods 8 and 9 feet I am looking for a taper of a splitcane spinning rodof 8 feet, casting lures up to 15 grams and for a taper 9 feet splitcanespinning rod, casting up to 20 grams.Pezon et Michel is known for it's famous spinning rods, I am justlooking for tapers of this brand. Could you help me?I can get you some interesting tapers back. 5 feet 1-pcs #3/4. regards from the Netherlands, L.H.Design bamboo flyrods titanium flyreels, Leen Huisman. E-mail: L.H.flyrod_reel@freemail.com.au --------------4F17225131B1ACEEC025C048-- from bmayer@teleport.com Tue Apr 6 00:15:15 1999 (216.26.60.93) Subject: An EC Edwards Anyone know where I can find an EC Edwards Mod 71 8 1/2' 3 piece rod? Ibought one from the widow of Mike Kennedy, a well known Northwest flyfisherman who had a fine collection of cane rods. This was a rod Iprized for its performance and character and that it belonged to Mikealthough Ruthie fished it more than he did. I seem to have lost it lastsummer as it has turned up missing from my small collection and I wouldlike to replace the cane at least, if not the history. Would appreciateany leads.Please respond to my email as I will be signing off the list for a weekof vacation.Barry Mayer from chris@artistree.com Tue Apr 6 01:40:27 1999 Subject: Re: Heat gun tempering oven. mac-creator="4D4F5353" David,I'm of the school of thought that the Hot Air method is (IMHO) the bestway to evenly treat cane. There are virtually no hot spots because theair is constantly moving much like a convection oven. But having nowsaid that I would caution you that there is a potential hot spot inthese hot air type ovens. This hot spot can exist inside the chamber atthe point where the air exits the oven (the exhaust pipe area if youwish). The hot air can be backed up here while trying to escape throughthe narrower exhaust pipe. So you might want to do one of the following:1) Incorporate an extra 6" to 8" of length to the exhaust end of theoven where the cane would not be placed.2) Design a funnel shaped end piece leading to the exhaust pipe (againthe cane would not be placed in this area).3) Use a larger exhaust pipe or one that provides an adjustable output.4) Rotate the cane end to end while treating and count on your goodluck. Just some ideas and I personally use #1 above. Hope this is some help toyou. Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com David Kashuba wrote: Rodmakers,I am in the planning stages of building a tempering oven that willutilize the heat gun that I will be using for node straightening. Anysuggestions on design or comments about the concept of moving hot air from gink@valint.net Tue Apr 6 01:58:21 1999 (206.107.176.165) Subject: First Production 7.5' 4WT Tip! boundary="------------9AF79ED4E1DC9D579583E2D8" --------------9AF79ED4E1DC9D579583E2D8 _________ Ladies & Gentlemen: A dream has come true. By the clock, ittook exactly 1:31 minutes from start of splitting, to finished gluingand racked to dry, Mr. Paul Whitely and Mr. George Gehrke, President ofthe Bastard Bamboo Fly Rod Company, made George's first tip for the 7.5'4 WT Bastard. It was so easy that the astronomical savings in laborwill be a direct benefit to all Americans who have always wanted to owna bamboo fly rod but couldn't because of their high cost. [Image] This particular taper is one of many in the archive files of the newBastard Bamboo Fly Rod Company. It is only one of many that we believehave been long overdue to the American Sportsmen abroad the landscapesof this world. The particular trademark or personality of Bastard Fly Rods will be theestablishment of their very firm and fast actions. Tomorrow morning wewill be applying our new 'Signature Wraps' that will identify us forwhat we are. Who has more fun then people? Mr. G.-- http://www.rodbuilder.com All Writings & Rights Reserved1999 by George GehrkeNo writings or quotes may beused whole or in part withoutthe specific permission ofthis author outside this group. --------------9AF79ED4E1DC9D579583E2D8 boundary="------------B75AAE97D230BCE276D2D58F" --------------B75AAE97D230BCE276D2D58F finished gluing and racked to dry, Mr. Paul Whitely and Mr. George Gehrke,President of the Bastard Bamboo Fly Rod Company, made George's first tip savingsin labor will be a direct benefit to all Americans who have always wantedto own a bamboo fly rod but couldn't because of their high cost. This particular taper is one of many in the archive files of the new believehave been long overdue to the American Sportsmen abroad the landscapesof this world.The particular trademark or personality of Bastard Fly Rods will be morningwe will be applying our new 'Signature Wraps' that will identify us forwhat we are.Who has more fun then people?Mr. G.-- http://www.rodbuilder.comAll Writings & Rights Reserved© 1999 by George GehrkeNo writings or quotes may beused whole or in part withoutthe specific permission ofthis author outside this group. --------------B75AAE97D230BCE276D2D58F --------------B75AAE97D230BCE276D2D58F-- --------------9AF79ED4E1DC9D579583E2D8-- from stpete@netten.net Tue Apr 6 04:12:32 1999 Tue, 6 Apr 1999 04:16:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Heat gun tempering oven. David, Check the archives for last year. It's easy with Frank Stetzer's newsearch engine. There are good descriptions of how to build a hot airoven. I built a simple one with 6" and 4" duct pipe from the local HomeDepot. Wrap that puppy in insulation and it does a pretty fair job ofmaintaining an even temperature. Rick C. David Kashuba wrote: Rodmakers,I am in the planning stages of building a tempering oven that willutilize the heat gun that I will be using for node straightening. Anysuggestions on design or comments about the concept of moving hot air Thanks all.Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from stpete@netten.net Tue Apr 6 04:13:34 1999 Tue, 6 Apr 1999 04:17:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Lathe newbie WmFMack, I have no experience with this product and I am as green as they comewith this piece of equipment. Rick C. WmFMack@aol.com wrote: One of the mail order catalogs I get advertises a two ended #2 Morsetaperthat is supposed to help you align the tail stock. Anyone have experiencewith one of those, pro or con? from maxs@geocities.co.jp Tue Apr 6 04:55:06 1999 bysv01.geocities.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W) with ESMTP id SAA25136; Tue, 6Apr 1999 18:55:02 +0900(JST) mail.geocities.co.jp (1.3G-8.9.3/GeocitiesJ-3.0) with ESMTP id SAA01834;Tue, 6 Apr 199918:55:01 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: First Production 7.5' 4WT Tip! TO Whom you say Mr. G, Who are you talking to?This is a rodmakers list, where we exchange the rod making ideas.If you want to sell your rod, go out to a different place. List doesnot permit to make business, make commercial here.If you want to contribute to this list, please post a meaningful orhelpful idea for us.I am not interested in your post. Max Mr. G wrote: _________ Ladies & Gentlemen: A dream has come true. By the clock,it took exactly 1:31 minutes from start of splitting, to finishedgluing and racked to dry, Mr. Paul Whitely and Mr. George Gehrke,President of the Bastard Bamboo Fly Rod Company, made George's firsttip for the 7.5' 4 WT Bastard. It was so easy that the astronomicalsavings in labor will be a direct benefit to all Americans who havealways wanted to own a bamboo fly rod but couldn't because of theirhigh cost. [Image] This particular taper is one of many in the archive files of the newBastard Bamboo Fly Rod Company. It is only one of many that webelieve have been long overdue to the American Sportsmen abroad thelandscapes of this world. The particular trademark or personality of Bastard Fly Rods will bethe establishment of their very firm and fast actions. Tomorrowmorning we will be applying our new 'Signature Wraps' that will Who has more fun then people? Mr. G.-- -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Tue Apr 6 05:37:08 1999 with SMTP(MDaemon.v2.7.SP6i.R) for ; Tue, 06 Apr1999 06:36:47 -0400 Subject: Re: First Production 7.5' 4WT Tip! boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01BE7FF7.CCD03780" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BE7FF7.CCD03780 This is the exact reason I quit reading ROFF. As Max said this is a = There are many quality rod builders who participate on this list whom do =not try to sell their rods or products to other members. If you want to participate on this list I would recommend the following: 1. Send all your text in plain form not html.2. Do not send file attachments.3. Quit trying to sell your products here.4. Sit back and learn for a while.5. Quit SPAMMING Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 2:58 AMSubject: First Production 7.5' 4WT Tip! _________ Ladies & Gentlemen: A dream has come true. By the clock, =it took exactly 1:31 minutes from start of splitting, to finished gluing =and racked to dry, Mr. Paul Whitely and Mr. George Gehrke, President of =the Bastard Bamboo Fly Rod Company, made George's first tip for the 7.5' =4 WT Bastard. It was so easy that the astronomical savings in labor =will be a direct benefit to all Americans who have always wanted to own= This particular taper is one of many in the archive files of the new =Bastard Bamboo Fly Rod Company. It is only one of many that we believe =have been long overdue to the American Sportsmen abroad the landscapes = The particular trademark or personality of Bastard Fly Rods will be =the establishment of their very firm and fast actions. Tomorrow morning=we will be applying our new 'Signature Wraps' that will identify us for = ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BE7FF7.CCD03780 There are many quality rod builders who participate on this list = not try to sell their rods or products to other members. following: html. here. ----- Original Message ----- Mr. G = Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 = AMSubject: First Production 7.5' = Tip! dream = splitting, to finished gluing and racked to dry, Mr. Paul Whitely and = George Gehrke, President of the Bastard Bamboo Fly Rod Company, made = astronomical savings in labor will be a direct benefit to all = have always wanted to own a bamboo fly rod but couldn't because of = This particular taper is one of many in the archive files of the = have been long overdue to the American Sportsmen abroad the landscapes= The particular trademark or personality of Bastard Fly Rods will be = will be applying our new 'Signature Wraps' that will identify us for = = All Writings & Rights Reserved =A9 1999 by George Gehrke = writings or quotes may be used whole or in part without the = ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BE7FF7.CCD03780-- from gaff@carol.net Tue Apr 6 06:10:49 1999 Subject: Re: First Production 7.5' 4WT Tip! Max Satoh wrote: TO Whom you say Mr. G, Who are you talking to?This is a rodmakers list, where we exchange the rod making ideas.If you want to sell your rod, go out to a different place. List doesnot permit to make business, make commercial here.If you want to contribute to this list, please post a meaningful orhelpful idea for us.I am not interested in your post. Max Mr. G wrote:max,don't beat around the bush max. tell us what you think about the bastard(rod)advertisment.wil from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Tue Apr 6 06:51:04 1999 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id XAA07827; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 23:50:51 +1200 Subject: Re: Heat gun tempering oven. David, I used the basic design as shown in the "Best of Planning Form".Modifications included :- as has been suggested , putting an aditional larger diameter pipe forinsulation ( with fibreglass insulation in the gap), this raised thetemperature in the "cooking" tube by about 50 degrees.- adding a 1 inch diameter pipe about 3'6" long which the nozzle ofthe heat gun is put into so that the hot air is delivered near the bottom ofthe "cooking" pipe. This had the affect of making the temperature in thecooking pipe much more even from top to bottom , but I still turn thestripshalf way through the cooking time . - My oven starts to turn the cane very very black after about 9 minutes ,and I have now settled on 7.5 minutes which is less then somerecommendations , but quite close to Garrison's suggestions. regards Iank- At 08:27 PM 5/04/99 PDT, David Kashuba wrote:Rodmakers,I am in the planning stages of building a tempering oven that will utilize the heat gun that I will be using for node straightening. Any suggestions on design or comments about the concept of moving hot air Thanks all.Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Tue Apr 6 06:51:04 1999 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id XAA07813; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 23:50:48 +1200 Subject: Re: Old Time Reel George, Bishop Auckland ( sometimes spelt Aukland) was started by an Englishfishingtackle maker William Cummins in 1857. The firm went out of existanceabout1960. I have seen a number of flyboxes with the Bishop Auckland nameonly ,but reels tend also to have the Cummins name on them. If there is an address of the maker on the reel I can probably give you arough idea of the age . Iank At 06:31 PM 5/04/99 -0400, George Barnes wrote:Does anyone have any information on old Bishop Auckland Reels? I've notyet seen the one in question but it's reported to be all brass, acquiredat an estate auction in Massachusetts, probably 40 to 50 years ago. George from maxs@geocities.co.jp Tue Apr 6 07:07:07 1999 bysv01.geocities.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W) with ESMTP id VAA03684; Tue, 6Apr 1999 21:06:58 +0900(JST) mail.geocities.co.jp (1.3G-8.9.3/GeocitiesJ-3.0) with ESMTP id VAA16237;Tue, 6 Apr 199921:06:57 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: First Production 7.5' 4WT Tip! Wil, As I said, I am not interested in your advertisement. I am just making my own bamboo rods by receiving many helpful advisesoffriends in US.Since I make my own rods, I have no need to purchase a rod because of low price.Cheap and machine cut rod is not the subject of mine. I respect realworkmanship of such professionals who spent his/her time to learn andmake a quality and beautiful product. There is such a tradition to love excelllent workmanship or art here inJapan. I may buy such a person's specialties and techniques even if itsexpensive. I am not interested in an expensive machine cut rod either. As for the advertisement, there should be no one who does it onthe list. Max w.d. gatliff wrote: Max Satoh wrote: TO Whom you say Mr. G, Who are you talking to?This is a rodmakers list, where we exchange the rod making ideas.If you want to sell your rod, go out to a different place. List doesnot permit to make business, make commercial here.If you want to contribute to this list, please post a meaningful orhelpful idea for us.I am not interested in your post. Max Mr. G wrote:max,don't beat around the bush max. tell us what you think about the bastard(rod)advertisment.wil -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod from channer@hubwest.com Tue Apr 6 07:35:29 1999 (SMTPD32-4.06) id AFF155C01C8; Tue, 06 Apr 1999 06:37:05 MST Subject: replies Guys;Before we all flood this list with replies to a certain post, might Isuggest that any replies be sent direct to the original sender. It mightalso help if the list guys send him a copy of the list's rules ofetiquette, he doesn't seem to have paid attention when he subscribed.John from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Apr 6 07:52:53 1999 "HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net" Subject: Re: Low gloss finish DennisYou will find out that just about everything you can think of hasbeen tried before as a finish at one time or the other. If you do not like a high gloss - then use Paraffin Oil and Rottenstoneon a felt block and you can rub out the gloss - then you can wax or polishtothe sheen you like. If you like tung oil - try Moser's tung oil varnishes for a hand rubfinish.Use the high gloss for a really nice finish - also works well on silk lines. Iuse it Chris On Mon, 05 Apr 1999 21:09:40 -0700, Dennis Haftel wrote: Hi all, I know there has been some talk a while ago about tung oil finishes onbamboo rods. I think it was Darryl that said a customer told him to"call him after it was finished" when he showed him the tung oilfinish. Anyway... I am sitting here knocking down the gloss on the second coatof varnish on my first attempt and was wondering: Has anyone ever gone even used a satin varnish? Maybe it's just me, but I think that looksrather nice on a light colored rod like mine and you still get thequalities of a varnish finish. Just curious... TIA, Dennis Regards Chris from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Tue Apr 6 08:36:40 1999 Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:36:36 -0400 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Doing it with sole. I used the wet/dry sandpaper method on the plane sole before I started onmyblade. I could not believe how quick and easy it was to get a uniformmirror-like finish over the entire surface. Sounds like your surface plateshould be fine. I used an old piece of marble countertop. I think the main throat, so as to reduce the risk of tear-out. Also, a flat sole is a slicksole, but I think this is a secondary factor because when you're planing abamboo strip you're in contact with so little of the sole there shouldn't bemuch resistance - for a contrast, try planing a tabletop smooth with anold,untuned jack plane and you'll see what I mean! -----Original Message-----From: michael w. shaffer [SMTP:mschaffer@mindspring.com]Sent: Monday, April 05, 1999 5:14 PM Subject: Doing it with sole. Ok guys, I know, bad pun but the list has been a little slow. Besides,I'ma rookie---that's my story and I'm sticking to it! :^) Anyway, I started to work on my hand plane blades last night using 400,600,and 1500 grit wet or dry sandpaper (used dry). Wow what a difference! Istill have to go at them with my wet stones, but I was wondering if thisshould also be the way to do the soles of the planes themselves, andshouldthe soles be taken all the way to 8000 grit on a wet stone. I didn't haveapiece of glass to use as a backing plate so I used my surface plate whichIknow to be flat within .00001 inches. Any help would be muchoappreciated!! Mike Doc (Mike Shaffer)(mschaffer@mindspring.com) from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Apr 6 09:47:31 1999 Tue, 6 Apr 1999 22:46:44 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: First Production 7.5' 4WT Tip! wugate.wustl.edu id JAA01398 Mr G., we're all interested in the rods and all but could you please not postimages on the list. On Mon, 5 Apr 1999, Mr. G wrote: _________ Ladies & Gentlemen: A dream has come true. By the clock,ittook exactly 1:31 minutes from start of splitting, to finished gluingand racked to dry, Mr. Paul Whitely and Mr. George Gehrke, President ofthe Bastard Bamboo Fly Rod Company, made George's first tip for the 7.5'4 WT Bastard. It was so easy that the astronomical savings in laborwill be a direct benefit to all Americans who have always wanted to owna bamboo fly rod but couldn't because of their high cost. [Image] This particular taper is one of many in the archive files of the newBastard Bamboo Fly Rod Company. It is only one of many that we believehave been long overdue to the American Sportsmen abroad the landscapesof this world. The particular trademark or personality of Bastard Fly Rods will be theestablishment of their very firm and fast actions. Tomorrow morningwewill be applying our new 'Signature Wraps' that will identify us forwhat we are. Who has more fun then people? Mr. G.-- http://www.rodbuilder.com All Writings & Rights Reserved1999 by George GehrkeNo writings or quotes may beused whole or in part withoutthe specific permission ofthis author outside this group. /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb? A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from sshorb@ozip.net Tue Apr 6 10:41:01 1999 Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:43:42 -0500 Subject: Re: First Production 7.5' 4WT Tip! Mr. G.;I am interested in the methods you used to complete it so quickly. Didyou make or purchase your tooling? Did you heat treat the rough stripsprior to final planing? What kind of oven? In fact, did you final planethe strips before glue up, if so what kind of plane did you use? Whatglue did you use? Which binder? Where did you get your bamboo? Did youhave trouble with the nodes or blank straightness? What kind of problemsdid you have and what were the fixes? How many attempts did it take tocome up with something acceptable? What kind of hardware are you goingto use? What finish is going to be applied and how? What taper did youdecide to use and where did you get it? I am asking these questionsbecause I'm new at this art also and this list is where I go to get thistype of question answered, tell of my achievements, admit my failures,and make suggestions when I feel I can contribute something useful;where I'm at in the learning process. So, I'm happy to hear you finishedyour first TIP. When you finish your first BUTT section, I'll be gladto read about it. When this first rod is completed I would be interestedin reading about how it casts or doesn't. I understand from reading theposts on the list that first rods have a tendency to be somewhatmediocre at best and clubs at worst. I am interested in how you madeyour rod, any problems encountered and the fixes, tools/equipment used,and honest appraisals of the final result. I am NOT interested inreading your spam.Skip from Ed.Estlow@co.hennepin.mn.us Tue Apr 6 11:01:52 1999 1999 16:01:05 UT 16-1998)) id8625674B.0057CE86 ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:59:05 -0500 Subject: Re: First Production 7.5' 4WT Tip! Hmmm........ I must say, the members of this list excel at sarcasm. Are wesowounded that we must resort once again to a child's pissing contest? Iwouldask, once again, the point of such a contest. It is entertaining for a whiletowatch, but mostly sad - one side baiting the other. I know this may be anunpopular attitude and the wrong forum in which to express it, but I getquitetired of reading these posts. Skip, don't you have a taper archive? I do, constructed of the tapers postedhere, the appendices of Wayne's book and Garrison/Carmichael, and atleast twoor three different sites on the World Wide Web. Come on guys. The guy's making rods (or isn't and is baiting you forentertainment's sake). Get over it. -Ed Estlow from saweiss@flash.net Tue Apr 6 11:47:29 1999 Subject: Re: First Production 7.5' 4WT Tip! type="multipart/alternative";boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_001A_01BE801A.DABBD340" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BE801A.DABBD340 boundary="----=_NextPart_001_001B_01BE801A.DABBD340" ------=_NextPart_001_001B_01BE801A.DABBD340 George,It's so much fun to read your messages. You have a great sense of humor.Steve _________ Ladies & Gentlemen: A dream has come true. By the =clock, it took exactly 1:31 minutes from start of splitting, to finished =gluing and racked to dry, Mr. Paul Whitely and Mr. George Gehrke, =President of the Bastard Bamboo Fly Rod Company, made George's first tip= in labor will be a direct benefit to all Americans who have always = This particular taper is one of many in the archive files of the new =Bastard Bamboo Fly Rod Company. It is only one of many that we believe =have been long overdue to the American Sportsmen abroad the landscapes = The particular trademark or personality of Bastard Fly Rods will be =the establishment of their very firm and fast actions. Tomorrow morning=we will be applying our new 'Signature Wraps' that will identify us for = ------=_NextPart_001_001B_01BE801A.DABBD340 George,It's so muchfun = messages. You have a great sense of humor.Steve took exactly 1:31 minutes from start of splitting, to finished = racked to dry, Mr. Paul Whitely and Mr. George Gehrke, President of = Bastard Bamboo Fly Rod Company, made George's first tip for the 7.5' = a direct benefit to all Americans who have always wanted to own a = This particular taper is one of many in the archive files of the = have been long overdue to the American Sportsmen abroad the = The particular trademark or personality of Bastard Fly Rods will = will be applying our new 'Signature Wraps' that will identify us for = = All Writings & Rights Reserved © 1999 by George = No writings or quotes may be used whole or in part without = specific permission of this author outside this group. = ------=_NextPart_001_001B_01BE801A.DABBD340-- ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BE801A.DABBD340 ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BE801A.DABBD340-- from chris@artistree.com Tue Apr 6 15:36:33 1999 Subject: Re: Heat gun tempering oven. mac-creator="4D4F5353" I have found that the roughed blank will start to turn black after about 15- 20 mins at 325 degrees (at sea level to complicate things even more). Thisisof course is probably dependent on the size of the roughing strips. Minemightbe much larger than Ian's. Smaller diameter tip bundles are the ones youhaveto watch carefully.--Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com Ian Kearney wrote: David,.- My oven starts to turn the cane very very black after about 9 minutes ,and I have now settled on 7.5 minutes which is less then somerecommendations , but quite close to Garrison's suggestions. from TBUTLER@HEWM.COM Tue Apr 6 15:53:52 1999 [206.189.208.11] (may be forged)) bymail01-oak.pilot.net with SMTP id NAA00205 for; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 (WorldSecureServer SMTP Relay(WSS) v3.2); Tue, 06 Apr 99 13:53:16 - 0700 ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:53:47 -0700 Subject: Does Size Matter? Here's a question from a bamboo rod neophyte. A friend (really,this is for a friend, not me, honest!) wants to order a "pack rod" becausehe has been impressed with a recently acquired 7'6" 4-wt 2-piece rod. Iwondered whether making the same length and weight rod in three or fourpieces so as to be "packable" would be practical. Not knowing the correctterminology, I wondered if the action would suffer from the increasednumberof ferrules, the shortened length of the bamboo fibers in each section orsimilar arcane problems. If anyone has insight, experience or othercomment, I would be pleased to pass them along. from chris@artistree.com Tue Apr 6 15:58:23 1999 Subject: Re: Heat gun tempering oven. mac-creator="4D4F5353" One more thing and then I'll shut up:) Ralph Moon has made good point about a certain smell that comes from theheattreating of the cane. I have noticed a certain smell that comes out of theexhaust at a point in the process that triggers my instincts to startthinkingabout taking the cane out even if the timer hasn't gone off yet. Asunscientificas it sounds I have started to rely on that smell a lot more. --Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Apr 6 17:38:02 1999 Subject: Re: Low gloss finish rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Dennis,I've found that saleability depends on high gloss. Yes, I've used tung oil and satin finishes and even my wife complained (she should know better).So I no longer use anything but high gloss poly spar as I'm in the business to sell rods. As far as myself I used tung oil 'til I found that I needed more moisture protection and have used satin but was dissatisfied with its flowability and returned to high gloss and polishing out the shine if necessary. You can experiment with various makes of satin varnishes and dilutions and you may find something that works for you.Good luck.Regards,Hank W. from HARMS1@prodigy.net Tue Apr 6 17:56:53 1999 Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:56:48 -0400 "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Subject: Re: Does Size Matter? =_NextPart_000_01BE805E.E6D432A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE805E.E6D432A0 Tim, Generally, the greater number of ferrules, the stiffer the action and theheavier the rod -- and in a four-piece rod, especially, that added weightwould be distributed from the middle out toward the tip (where youdefinitely would not want that weight). Having said this, however, it'spossible to design the rod so that it can use truncated ferrules -- thussaving unwanted weight, and interrupting the action somewhat less. Also,as a seven-foot rod for a four-weight line is a somewhat delicate rodanyway, even in four pieces, it could probably be kept that way. You will not be able to duplicate the action and "feel" of the two-piecerod, but one should be able, nevertheless, to come up with a dandy rod. Iam certain someone has already "solved" this little challenge, and I toowould be interested in hearing of the results. cheers, Bill ----------From: Butler, Timothy H. Subject: Does Size Matter?Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 1:56 PM Here's a question from a bamboo rod neophyte. A friend (really,this is for a friend, not me, honest!) wants to order a "pack rod"becausehe has been impressed with a recently acquired 7'6" 4-wt 2-piece rod. Iwondered whether making the same length and weight rod in three orfourpieces so as to be "packable" would be practical. Not knowing the correctterminology, I wondered if the action would suffer from the increasednumberof ferrules, the shortened length of the bamboo fibers in each section orsimilar arcane problems. If anyone has insight, experience or othercomment, I would be pleased to pass them along. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE805E.E6D432A0 Tim,Generally, the =greater number of ferrules, the stiffer the action and the heavier the =rod -- and in a four-piece rod, especially, that added weight would be =distributed from the middle out toward the tip (where you definitely = possible to design the rod so that it can use truncated ferrules -- thus = = delicate rod anyway, even in four pieces, it could probably be kept that = would be interested in hearing of the results.cheers, = = a friend, not me, honest!) wants to order a "pack rod" = = same = =terminology, I wondered if the action would suffer from the increased = ------=_NextPart_000_01BE805E.E6D432A0-- from rsgould@cmc.net Tue Apr 6 18:43:22 1999 Subject: Back pack rod Hi Tim,I see you've already gotten a good answer about how to minimize theeffectsof three ferrules on a 4 piece rod by using truncated ferrules but here'sanother idea. I've done a lot of back packing myself where we each carrieda weeks supplies, camping gear and a small raft to go on a fishing trip toa string of remote lakes. Weight is of the utmost importance when you'recarrying 60-70 lbs. I found that it worked well for me to take an 8ft ft x2pc rod in an aluminum tube and fix the aluminum tube with a rubber padonthe bottom and use it as a walking stick. It can also then be used to propup the pack at rest stops. Another benefit is there is more room in thepack.Ray from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Apr 6 19:41:54 1999 Subject: Re: Back pack rod TBUTLER@hewm.com I have no quarrel with Ray's solution, but would take it one step further myself. Basically, I think you could make a one piece 6 footer that would cast as well as anything with 4 ferrules in it. That way you can use a1/14" OD aluminium tube as the case. It makes a reasonable walking staff, and a standard rubber cap for furniture legs fits on the tube as a base. from saweiss@flash.net Tue Apr 6 20:32:52 1999 Subject: Re: Heat gun tempering oven. Great points, Chris.Heat treating has to be one of the more subjective processes, althoughprobably having some some very finite chemical things going on inside thecane at the molecular level. Using one's nose as well as judging the colorgives some indicator of "doneness". So many people's ovens are givingdifferent time requirements. I use my hot air oven horizontally andmeasurethe temperature with two electronic probe thermometers. I can heat at350 that smell that Ralph mentioned.Steve One more thing and then I'll shut up:) Ralph Moon has made good point about a certain smell that comes fromtheheattreating of the cane. I have noticed a certain smell that comes out of theexhaust at a point in the process that triggers my instincts to startthinkingabout taking the cane out even if the timer hasn't gone off yet. Asunscientificas it sounds I have started to rely on that smell a lot more. --Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from BambooRods@aol.com Tue Apr 6 21:16:19 1999 Subject: Re: First Production 7.5' 4WT Tip! How exciting! You have your first tip section. I can't wait to see the bastards butt, maybe we already have. (tongue in cheek?). from jczimny@dol.net Tue Apr 6 21:42:56 1999 0400 =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22ro?==?iso-8859- 1?Q?dmakers=40wugate=2Ewustl=2Eedu_=2A=A1=22?= Subject: RE: Heat gun tempering oven. Me too.John Z -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Heat gun tempering oven. One more thing and then I'll shut up:) Ralph Moon has made good point about a certain smell that comes from theheattreating of the cane. I have noticed a certain smell that comes out of theexhaust at a point in the process that triggers my instincts to startthinkingabout taking the cane out even if the timer hasn't gone off yet. Asunscientificas it sounds I have started to rely on that smell a lot more. --Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from LECLAIR123@aol.com Tue Apr 6 21:47:44 1999 Subject: Re: Lathe newbie In a message dated 4/4/99 12:23:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time,jczimny@dol.net writes: You know, I've seen them in the catalog and wondered howgood they worked. It sounds like it is a lot faster than my oldtime method. I'll have to give it a try. Thanks John from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Apr 7 11:12:54 1999 Subject: Re: Does Size Matter? rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu TButler,What I'm about to say may be heresy to some but here goes-I've made a number of 3 pc. rods on 2 pc. tapers WITHOUT adjusting the taper forferrule wgt. and placement. My experience is that,depending a little on the type of taper, that there is only a small difference in action. With parabolictapers the action seems stiffer, whereas with straightline tapers the actionsoftens somewhat.Just my $.02,Hank Woolman. from briansr@point-net.com Wed Apr 7 11:35:38 1999 0000 Subject: Fw: re 1st production 7.54wt tip Congratulationg Mr(s) G .However MY milling-planing machine justproduced8tip sections in 2 MINUTES FLAT.That being said it took me 6hrs and 22minutes to pull the tip sections out of the wall opposite themilling- planing machine!! 43 strips were damaged beyond repair ! 6 wereperfect and the others might be good only for a 12 sided rod. I'm going toglue these up to see what they look likeCheers BS from dmanders@telusplanet.net Wed Apr 7 15:25:46 1999 don") byedtnps05.telusplanet.net with SMTP id ; Wed, 7 Apr 199914:25:29 - 0600 Subject: Re: Does Size Matter? rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu At 12:01 PM 4/7/99 EDT, FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote:TButler,What I'm about to say may be heresy to some but here goes-I've made a number of 3 pc. rods on 2 pc. tapers WITHOUT adjusting the taper forferrule wgt. and placement. My experience is that,depending a little on the typeof taper, that there is only a small difference in action. With parabolictapers the action seems stiffer, whereas with straightline tapers the actionsoftens somewhat.Just my $.02,Hank Woolman. Hank, Tried the same and found the same. Don from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Apr 7 18:10:22 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0500 Subject: Thread for Heddon Friends,I'm trying to locate enough Blue/White variegated (is thatwhat we mean by jasper) thread to re-wrap an old Heddon Bluewaterrod for a friend. Do any of you have any idea where I might findsome? Obviously I'm willing to pay what it costs. Thanks in advance,Harry Boydhboyd@fbcwin.com from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Apr 7 18:54:33 1999 via smap (4.1) 16:57:53 PDT Subject: Re: Thread for Heddon Harry, Go to this website (Belvoirdale). http://www.belvoirdale.com/elephant.html They have photos of the blue/white thread and maybe you can tell if it's what you want. I've ordered other varigated threads from Belvoirdale. The difficult partseems to be getting the correct size. The website says the 100/3 is the big stuff and the 50/3 is the small stuff. My experience has been to order exactly the opposite. The 100/3 is the smallest they have and it is about size A, at least according to the labels on the rolls I've bought. This size mix-up has been the subject of controversy for at least a couple of years. I don't know. Good luck. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from HARMS1@prodigy.net Wed Apr 7 19:07:24 1999 Wed, 7 Apr 1999 20:06:58 -0400 , Subject: Re: Back pack rod =_NextPart_000_01BE8131.E227EAC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE8131.E227EAC0 Or you could build a five-foot one-piece for 8-weight line. Leave the tubeat home and use the rod itself for a staff. Or, again, you could leave therod at home and fill the tube/staff with Snickers bars. We got LOTS ofsolutions. Cheers, Bill ----------From: TSmithwick@aol.com TBUTLER@hewm.comCc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Back pack rodDate: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 5:31 PM I have no quarrel with Ray's solution, but would take it one step further myself. Basically, I think you could make a one piece 6 footer that would cast as well as anything with 4 ferrules in it. That way you can use a1/14" OD aluminium tube as the case. It makes a reasonable walking staff, anda standard rubber cap for furniture legs fits on the tube as a base. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE8131.E227EAC0 Or you could build a = Basically, I think you could make a one piece 6 footer that would = furniture legs fits on the tube as a base. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE8131.E227EAC0-- from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Apr 7 21:38:06 1999 Subject: Re: Re: Heat gun tempering oven. rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Chris,I use a mica strip oven with an oven thermometer in the middle of it, It reads slightly above the thermostat setting. I've found that 375 deg. F. for 20 min. gives me a honey blonde color on the non-flamed sticks. Of course with no air being moved I'm not getting the drying that a heat gun ovendoes.FWIW,Regards,Hank W. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Apr 7 21:40:04 1999 Subject: Re: Re: Heat gun tempering oven. rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Chris,Yep , that smells better than a thermometer.Hank from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Apr 7 21:41:04 1999 Subject: Re: Re: First Production 7.5' 4WT Tip! rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu What Ed said. Come on guys.Hank W. from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Thu Apr 8 08:21:28 1999 GAA06662; (5.5.2407.0) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu, "'FISHWOOL@aol.com'" Subject: RE: Heat gun tempering oven. I tried the temperatures Walt Powell gave me and it worked like a charm.250 degrees for 11/2 hours to get the moisture out without it turning to steam andrupturing the cell wall aswater boils at a slightly higher temperature at my altitude, then 300degrees for 1 hour and375 degrees till it gets the right color 15-30 minutes. Worked like acharm especially the250 degrees, the moisture came out of my oven in nice clouds. ----------From: FISHWOOL@aol.com[SMTP:FISHWOOL@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 7:37 PM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Heat gun tempering oven. Chris,I use a mica strip oven with an oven thermometer in the middle of it,It reads slightly above the thermostat setting. I've found that 375 deg. F. 20 min. gives me a honey blonde color on the non-flamed sticks. Ofcourse with no air being moved I'm not getting the drying that a heat gun ovendoes.FWIW,Regards,Hank W. from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Apr 8 09:43:56 1999 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1998.03.08.20.27)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, Subject: test from mschaffer@mindspring.com Thu Apr 8 13:57:21 1999 Subject: Wayne's book Sorry to bother you guys, but does anyone know for sure who has a copy ofWayne Cattanach's book still in stock and for sale? A website or phonenumber would be most appreciated! TIA, Doc (Mike Shaffer)(mschaffer@mindspring.com) from Ed.Estlow@co.hennepin.mn.us Thu Apr 8 16:08:29 1999 1999 21:07:33 UT 16-1998)) id8625674D.0073DA7A ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:05:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Wayne's book Cabela's and Angler's Art are two places which I believe have Wayne'sbook. Ithink the Fly Factory in Grayling also has it. Can't remember any URL's buttheyare on Jerry Foster's website (Rodmakers). -Ed Estlow "michael w. shaffer" on 04/08/99 01:57:50PM Please respond to mschaffer@mindspring.com cc: Subject: Wayne's book Sorry to bother you guys, but does anyone know for sure who has a copy ofWayne Cattanach's book still in stock and for sale? A website or phonenumber would be most appreciated! TIA, Doc (Mike Shaffer)(mschaffer@mindspring.com) from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Apr 8 16:37:26 1999 Subject: Re: Wayne's book Ed How can you forget an URL like: http://www.troutbums.com for TheFly Factory web site. Some are easier to remember than others and this iseasy.Give Steve a call and I am sure they have the book. Chris On Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:04:37 -0500, Ed.Estlow@co.hennepin.mn.us wrote: Cabela's and Angler's Art are two places which I believe have Wayne'sbook. Ithink the Fly Factory in Grayling also has it. Can't remember any URL's buttheyare on Jerry Foster's website (Rodmakers). -Ed Estlow "michael w. shaffer" on 04/08/99 01:57:50PM Please respond to mschaffer@mindspring.com cc: Subject: Wayne's book Sorry to bother you guys, but does anyone know for sure who has a copy ofWayne Cattanach's book still in stock and for sale? A website or phonenumber would be most appreciated! TIA, Doc (Mike Shaffer)(mschaffer@mindspring.com) from dellc@nextdim.com Thu Apr 8 17:09:48 1999 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A7E1DA00150; Thu, 08 Apr 1999 15:04:17 PST Subject: Re: Thread for Heddon Harry , it is called space dyed. It can be copied by dyeing white thread bywraping the thread around the appopiate size dowel and marking one halfofthe circumference with a blue waterproof marker. I did this one time anditcame out quite well.DellDell & Marie Coppock"The Flyfisher & the Quilter"http://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail flyfisher@nextdim.com----- Original Message----- Subject: Thread for Heddon Friends,I'm trying to locate enough Blue/White variegated (is thatwhat we mean by jasper) thread to re-wrap an old Heddon Bluewaterrod for a friend. Do any of you have any idea where I might findsome? Obviously I'm willing to pay what it costs. Thanks in advance,Harry Boydhboyd@fbcwin.com from Turbotrk@aol.com Thu Apr 8 18:41:07 1999 Subject: Re: Local Bamboo I hope I am not repeating what someone else has already posted as I havebeen out fishing. (hint) My cost for cane is about $25 for a culm. If I am sloppy I will get one very good rod out of it. What are we striving for? I will just live with the cost of a good product and work on my planningjust a little bit more. from teekay35@interlynx.net Thu Apr 8 22:37:23 1999 Subject: Grand Rod Gathering, Fergus, Ontario, May 29, 30, 1999 =_NextPart_000_01BE8218.9BFE1AA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE8218.9BFE1AA0 The 3rd "Grand" Gathering is shaping up well. Our capacity is 70 persons,and last year we had that many people in attendance, so you shouldregistersoon. Some of the speakers confirmed include Jerry Kustich, WinstonRods;George Maurer, Sweetwater Rods; Ron Barch, Planing form; and others. Wewill have the usual workshops for the beginning rod maker. For moredetails about our program, guest speakers, topics, and registrationinformation, see the paper clipped items.If you are on our mailing list thesame information will be mailed to you shortly. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE8218.9BFE1AA0 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 ------=_NextPart_000_01BE8218.9BFE1AA0-- from bjust@bellsouth.net Thu Apr 8 23:05:29 1999 AAA01816 Subject: Stripping guides I am nearing completion of my forms and if I never tap another hole inmy life I will be a happy man. Anybody just starting on a set shouldget a quality tap instead of a hardware store brand(I broke 4 off). Anyway, looking towards my first rod I am contemplating hardware. Doeseveryone use either Mildrum or agate style strippers. I think the H&Hstrippers look nice even though they have the ceramic insert. Hasanyone used these on their rods. I'll probably use the Mildrum becauseof tradition, but I am interested in whether anybody has used the H&Hs. Thanks,Brian from bills@nwlink.com Thu Apr 8 23:21:33 1999 Subject: Re: Stripping guides Brian,REC has both. www.reccomponents.comGoldenwitch Technologies has agate strippers www.goldenwitch.com Bill-----Original Message----- Subject: Stripping guides I am nearing completion of my forms and if I never tap another hole inmy life I will be a happy man. Anybody just starting on a set shouldget a quality tap instead of a hardware store brand(I broke 4 off). Anyway, looking towards my first rod I am contemplating hardware. Doeseveryone use either Mildrum or agate style strippers. I think the H&Hstrippers look nice even though they have the ceramic insert. Hasanyone used these on their rods. I'll probably use the Mildrum becauseof tradition, but I am interested in whether anybody has used the H&Hs. Thanks,Brian from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Fri Apr 9 08:04:32 1999 Subject: Does Size Matter? Tim,A while back A.J. Thramer posted a taper for a 4'3" 4Wt. 2 Piece rod. Iwould think that that would make a great "Pack Rod". Those that havemade it, have said that it is a sweet rod. Just a thought. I'm at workcatching up on my E-Mail after being off for a week or I would look upand repost the taper for you. Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net from teekay35@interlynx.net Fri Apr 9 09:39:27 1999 Subject: 3rd Grand Rod builders Gathering I will be away for the next 3 days and will respond to inquiries about the"Grand Gathering" when I return. from sniderja@email.uc.edu Fri Apr 9 09:45:43 1999 Subject: Re: Does Size Matter? I have built three of the A.J. Thramer 4'4" 4 wts as one-piece rods. Theyare delightful to cast, especially if you are a short rod freak. Don'toverlook the Tom Smithwick 5' 6" 5 wt rod. Although recommended as aone-piece, and a fantastic casting rod, it should work extremely well as atwo-piece pack rod. I have also built the Cattanach model on which the SirDarryl special is based, in a three-piece model, and it packs down to ca.28", making for an extremely nice pack rod--have packed it for miles overthe north slope of the Alaskan tundra in quest of "virgin" grayling for aresearch project, and it does the job- -even with the extra tip.J. Snider. At 07:28 AM 4/9/99 -0400, dickfuhrman@rheemote.com wrote:Tim,A while back A.J. Thramer posted a taper for a 4'3" 4Wt. 2 Piece rod. Iwould think that that would make a great "Pack Rod". Those that havemade it, have said that it is a sweet rod. Just a thought. I'm at workcatching up on my E-Mail after being off for a week or I would look upand repost the taper for you. Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Apr 9 10:06:15 1999 Subject: Re: Does Size Matter? I have also built the Cattanach model on which the SirDarryl special is based, in a three-piece model, and it packs down to ca.28", making for an extremely nice pack rod I'm glad you said this, since I was itching recommend this taper againbut I was sure the guys on the list are getting tired of me continuallysinging its praises. The three piece casts just as well as the two piece.I am in the process of making a three piece five sided and four sided version. Darryl from ttalsma@macatawa.org Fri Apr 9 10:15:20 1999 freenet.macatawa.org(8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA03760 for ;Fri, 9 Apr 1999 Subject: [Fwd: 4'4" 4wt 453] I believe this is the taper that has been talked about. Jerry Snider wrote: Has anyone actually built this taper? If so, can you provide input re theoutcome?J. SniderAt 09:49 AM 4/2/98 -0800, you wrote:Someone asked for a 4'4" 2pc 4wt 0- .0685- .08410- .09615- .11420- .12825- .14430- .15835- .17640- .19245- .220to 52 .220 It uses an 11/64 ferrule based on a D taper 1 7/16ozFell free to use a 3wt alsoA.J.Thramer -- Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ home page: http://members.xoom.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.xoom.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm from HARMS1@prodigy.net Fri Apr 9 15:59:25 1999 Fri, 9 Apr 1999 16:59:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Stripping guides =_NextPart_000_01BE82A9.F2815A40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE82A9.F2815A40 Brian, I haven't used the H&H stripping guides, but I have used agate guides fromboth REC and Golden Witch (Russ Gooding). Of these two, I prefer thelatter. The guides themselves are made by Daryll Whitehead, and are asbeautiful as anything you could imagine. (No interest is product or company) Cheers, Bill ----------From: BRIAN JUSTISS Subject: Stripping guidesDate: Thursday, April 08, 1999 9:06 PM I am nearing completion of my forms and if I never tap another hole inmy life I will be a happy man. Anybody just starting on a set shouldget a quality tap instead of a hardware store brand(I broke 4 off). Anyway, looking towards my first rod I am contemplating hardware. Doeseveryone use either Mildrum or agate style strippers. I think the H&Hstrippers look nice even though they have the ceramic insert. Hasanyone used these on their rods. I'll probably use the Mildrum becauseof tradition, but I am interested in whether anybody has used the H&Hs. Thanks,Brian------=_NextPart_000_01BE82A9.F2815A40 Brian,I haven't used=the H&H stripping guides, but I have used agate guides from both REC= are as beautiful as anything you could imagine.(No interest is = ------=_NextPart_000_01BE82A9.F2815A40-- from brookie@frii.com Fri Apr 9 20:02:02 1999 Subject: How do you decide/advise customers ? Good evening to the rodmakers list,^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I'm still on here, scanning the posts and fascinated that there is so muchbanter on the how-to's. I shouldn't be, knowing full well that almostevery aspect of flyfishing can command miles of email *G* Watching the descriptions of rods, the tapers, the action etc. brings tomind a question I've thought about and until recently was in quite adilemma over. And that is, how does a customer convey to the rodmakerwhatthey want in a cane rod ? I'll try not to ramble too much, but let me do so to get my point across soyou can comment. *S* Let's take the graphite series as a counter example. I can go to justabout any good flyshop and cast all manner of rods -- Makes,models,lengths, action, weight, feel, and even looks. With home flyshops,I caneven take out loaners and work them on a creek for the day. I could thengo to a graphite- assembler, they would get the 'right' blank and assembleme a rod that I probably would be happy with, having tried out like models. Not so with the cane series at all. There aren't that many cane buildersaround, and ones you might order up a cane are from other parts of thecountry. Sure, there is the odd-shop that carries very very expensivecane for sale, but not a variety of lengths, weights and tapers. Then too,some of us customers would hestitate to take some of these new andantiquecane out and cast them, if only in the adjacent parking lot. Intrigued a few years ago by the 'talk of cane' through emailcorrespondence, I was fortunate to receive two cane rods to try out.Immediately I knew they were not for me nor my style of fishing. I gaveone gift back, and sold the one I had bought. Another avenue of pursuit, websites of cane builders . People like mebookmark the various websites you all have, look at the images, which AREbeautiful, read the description .... but of course, what is oneman's/woman's description of a cane rod is not another's. What is fast ormedium fast to me may not be to the builder. Parabolic seems to describethe cane ( and graphite ) that I like. But how to communicate betweencustomer and builder, and builder and customer what could and should bebuilt. Because we're not talking a $200 rod, the decision on the specs ISimportant. What a bummer that I, or any other customer would get a$750-$1500 cane rod after several months or even years of waiting onlytofind that it is not what we thought it would be. ( This is allhypothetical of course. ) That's my question then, how do you as builders translate what thecustomerthinks they want, what they envision in their hands, the 'action' of saidrod, and build it ? I can't believe that every customer is soknowledgable and so in-synch with the builder that all is clear in thedescription. Me personally? Finally DID get a cane that instantly was 'mine', fit mystyle, my fishing, my casting, my creeks. That was luck I wager. Icould have waited for decades to find the 'right one' ... comments ?SueColorado from rcurry@ttlc.net Fri Apr 9 21:10:33 1999 (SMTPD32-5.01) id A3196802A2; Fri, 09 Apr 1999 22:10:33 EST Subject: Re: How do you decide/advise customers ? Sue,Easy solution. Go to the next cane rodmakers gathering near you andcast50-60 rods, until you find one you like. Of course, you may find you likemanydifferent rods, and each would be perfect for a different application...It's a slippery slope.Best regards,Reed Sue K wrote: Good evening to the rodmakers list,^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I'm still on here, scanning the posts and fascinated that there is so muchbanter on the how-to's. I shouldn't be, knowing full well that almostevery aspect of flyfishing can command miles of email *G* Watching the descriptions of rods, the tapers, the action etc. brings tomind a question I've thought about and until recently was in quite adilemma over. And that is, how does a customer convey to the rodmakerwhatthey want in a cane rod ? I'll try not to ramble too much, but let me do so to get my point acrosssoyou can comment. *S* Let's take the graphite series as a counter example. I can go to justabout any good flyshop and cast all manner of rods -- Makes, models,lengths, action, weight, feel, and even looks. With home flyshops, I caneven take out loaners and work them on a creek for the day. I could thengo to a graphite- assembler, they would get the 'right' blank and assembleme a rod that I probably would be happy with, having tried out likemodels. Not so with the cane series at all. There aren't that many cane buildersaround, and ones you might order up a cane are from other parts of thecountry. Sure, there is the odd-shop that carries very very expensivecane for sale, but not a variety of lengths, weights and tapers. Then too,some of us customers would hestitate to take some of these new andantiquecane out and cast them, if only in the adjacent parking lot. Intrigued a few years ago by the 'talk of cane' through emailcorrespondence, I was fortunate to receive two cane rods to try out.Immediately I knew they were not for me nor my style of fishing. I gaveone gift back, and sold the one I had bought. Another avenue of pursuit, websites of cane builders . People like mebookmark the various websites you all have, look at the images, whichAREbeautiful, read the description .... but of course, what is oneman's/woman's description of a cane rod is not another's. What is fastormedium fast to me may not be to the builder. Parabolic seems todescribethe cane ( and graphite ) that I like. But how to communicate betweencustomer and builder, and builder and customer what could and should bebuilt. Because we're not talking a $200 rod, the decision on the specs ISimportant. What a bummer that I, or any other customer would get a$750-$1500 cane rod after several months or even years of waiting onlytofind that it is not what we thought it would be. ( This is allhypothetical of course. ) That's my question then, how do you as builders translate what thecustomerthinks they want, what they envision in their hands, the 'action' of saidrod, and build it ? I can't believe that every customer is soknowledgable and so in-synch with the builder that all is clear in thedescription. Me personally? Finally DID get a cane that instantly was 'mine', fit mystyle, my fishing, my casting, my creeks. That was luck I wager. Icould have waited for decades to find the 'right one' ... comments ?SueColorado from DavidM5708@aol.com Fri Apr 9 21:15:50 1999 Subject: Arend rod update and list Good day rodmakers, I have a brief update on the status of shop sales for all of you plus John Lohman's personal collection of fishing books, catalogs and "written stuff" is now available for sale. Most important, George Fraley is going to continue the line of Arend Rods from his shop in McKinney, Texas. George worked with John Lohman who worked with Al Kudalis who worked withBill Arend. Thus the Arend tradition will continue unbroken. To this end George has taken the blanks and available Arend rods to measure for developing a taper database. He will be providing you with more information as soon ashe is ready. I can, of course, be reached at llohman@juno.com. Thanks all!! There are some non-signed rods, or rods from other makers still availableas listed on the original inventory. Many would be suitable for hard fishingor There is also still a supply of thread not too different, except in quantities, from the original inventory. I have had an offer for most of this but am waiting to see if the members of this group have a particular need. Al Bellinger expressed surprise that no one has yet expressed firminterest in either of the big machines that are after the Goodwin Granger model. To refresh your memories, the cane cutting/milling machine, with 3/4 hpmotor, is 9' by 17" wide on a cast iron lathe bed (about 2500 lbs). The motor, the 18" cast iron leg bases, and the cutting slide all remove. It will cost $500 to get off site and heavy haulers will be needed. The machine can beviewed at http://www.bambooflyrods.com/arend/mill.jpgIt works. Even I can cut a taper on it. The electrically heated hydraulic straightening press is channel iron andcan be cut in to 2 sections (probably should be to move from its site for about $350. It has 6 pistons (one leaks), steel platens (4) that are removable, and will need professional moving. Cutting it into two sections actuallycan make a usable press for 2 people as the heating system can be simply modernized--and probably ought to be. You can see the press at http://www.bambooflyrods.com/arend/straightener.jpg and a side view at http://www.bambooflyrods.com/arend/straightenerside.jpg While many tools remain, here are a few of special interest:Gluing tank, copper 58" x 9 x 5 with heating optionMotor driven drum sander 1Needle file set Great Neck 6 pc, 5 1/2"Nicholson files boxedOhaus box weights 1-200 gramOilstone in casePlane, block 13"Plane, block 5"Plane, block 5 1/2"Plane, block Stanley No. 248*Plane, surface with 5 cutters, boxed Stanley No. 248A - this hand router is no longer made and is a classic hand tool.Saw, circular (antique) - apparently used for finishing the caneVacuum dust collector with 1/2 HP motor goes with the milling machineWoodturning gouges and skews set, 2 additional J.T. LOHMAN - MISCELLANEOUS INVENTORY ITEM Books and MiscellanyAmateur Rodmaking, Perry D. Frazer, MacMillan, 1939How to Fish Good, Milford (Stanley) Poltroon, 1971Sport Fishing USA, U.S. Fish and Wildlife ServiceMcClane's Standard Fishing Encyclopedia, A.J. McClane, ed., 1965Pinehurst Fishing Academy , Notebook, 1965Secrets of Successful Fishing, Henry Shakespeare, 1966Scottish Borders Angling Guide, n.d.Angling in the Scottish Borders, n.d.The Fly-Rod for Bass, Cal Johnson, 1925Fisherman's Guide, A Systems Approach to Creativity and Organization,Robert Campbell, 1985Fishing Tackle and Techniques, Dick Wolff, 1961A Modern Dry-Fly Code, Vincent C. Marinaro, 1970 (to John from Al)Trout, Ernest Schwiebert (2 vols), 1978The Official Colorado Fishing and Hunting Guide, 1962-63, Tim Kelley, ed.The Official Colorado Fishing and Hunting Guide, 1966-67, Tim Kelley, ed.The Official Colorado Fishing and Hunting Guide, 1968-69, Tim Kelley, ed.The Official Colorado Fishing and Hunting Guide, 1970-71, Tim Kelley, ed.Colorado Recreation Guide, 5th editionA Look Back, A 65 Year History of the Colorado Game and Fish Dept., 1961Fishermen's Digest, Erwin A. Bauer, ed., 8th anniversary ed.Phillipson Fishing Rods, brochure, n.d. Special Olympic Tournament - Casting, Official Program, July 2-3-4, 1932 CatalogsAmerican Machinist--December 16, 1946--May 1, 1940Brown & Sharpe Small Tools, 1924Brown & Sharpe Shop Tool Manual, 8/76Carbology-- Turning - n.d--Milling - n.d.--All-in-one - n.d--Tool Manual - June 1941Cook's Stream Guide and Fishing Manual, 1937 (2 copies)Dave Cook's 60th Anniversary Sale, 1938 Tackle BargainsFly Fisherman's Bookcase and Tackle, Spring `78Herter's, 1970Kaufmann's Streamborn Fly Shop, 1978Landis Thread TipsJuly 1946Leonard's Spring 76 Catalog, Spring `76Leonardlines, July 1974M.L. Foss, Inc., 1935 hardboundMachinery, July 1940Zelenda Metric, 1970 Magazines and JournalsCREEL, National Association of Angling and Casting Clubs newsletter--March-April 1947--May-June 1947--September-October 1947--November-December 1947--January 1948--February 1948--March- April 1948--May-June 1948Colorado Outdoors--v. 7, no. 3, May-June 1958--v. 8, nos. 3 & 5, 1959--v. 9, nos. 1, 2, 1960--v. 10, nos. 1 & 3-6, 1961--v. 11, nos. 2-4, 6, 1962--v. 12, nos. 1-2, 4-6, 1963--v. 13, nos. 1-6, 1964--v. 14, nos. 1-6, 1965--v. 15, nos. 1-6, 1966--v. 16, nos. 1-6, 1967--v. 17, nos. 1- 6, 1968--v. 18, nos. 1-6, 1969--v. 19, nos. 1-6, 1970--v. 20, nos. 1-6, 1971--v. 21, nos. 1-6, 1972--v. 22, nos. 1-6, 1973--v. 23, nos. 1-6, 1974-- v. 24, nos. 1-6, 1975--v. 25, nos. 1-6, 1976 (2 ea. 1, 2, 4, 5)--v. 26, nos. 1- 6, 1977--v. 27, nos. 1-6, 1978--v. 28, nos. 1-6, 1979--v. 29, nos. 1-6, 1980--v. 30, nos. 1-3, 1981 Fly Fisherman--v. 1, no. 1, May 1969--v. 4, no. 6, June/July 1973--v. 5, nos. 4, 5, 6, 7, 1974--v. 6, nos. 1-7, 1974-75 (2 ea. #6, 7)--v. 7, nos. 1-7 1975- 76 (2 ea. #2, 3, 5)--v. 8, nos. 1-7, 1976-77--v. 9, nos. 1-7, 1977-78--v. 10, nos. 1-7, 1978-79--v. 11, nos. 1-6, 1979-80--v. 12, nos. 1-6, 1980-81--v. 13, nos. 1-6, 1981-82--v. 14, nos. 1-6, 1982-83 (2 #2)--v. 15, nos. 1-6, 1983-84--v. 16, nos. 1-6, 1984-85--1985 Buyer's Guide--v. 17, nos. 1-4, 1985-86Modern Machine Shop, May 1937Progress-National Tool and Die Journal, June 1940Western Sportsman--February 1941--May 1941Field and Stream--December 1981--January-December 1982Outdoor Life, October 1975Outdoor Life, October 1984Montana Outdoors--vol 8, nos 2, 5-7, 1977- -vol 9, nos 1-3 from maxs@geocities.co.jp Fri Apr 9 22:42:29 1999 bysv01.geocities.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W) with ESMTP id MAA00635; Sat, 10Apr 1999 12:42:25+0900 (JST) mail.geocities.co.jp (1.3G-8.9.3/GeocitiesJ-3.0) with ESMTP id MAA27157;Sat, 10 Apr 199912:42:23 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: How do you decide/advise customers ? Hello Sue, Your question is vital. Though I am an amateur rod maker, I have alwayshad the same quesiton in mind. from a maker's view points, there may beseveral ways of understanding how a rod is like, such as patterns and its feeling of casting, etc.. All those things are understood with the combination of modeled patternand feeling which actually experienced. So it may be the best way forcustomer to try out several actions of rods. IMHO, makers should also try to have some good ways to show customerswhat their rods are like,anyway, from the view point of customers as well as offering as manytrial opportunities. Thanks for stimulation, Max Sue K wrote: Good evening to the rodmakers list,^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I'm still on here, scanning the posts and fascinated that there is so muchbanter on the how-to's. I shouldn't be, knowing full well that almostevery aspect of flyfishing can command miles of email *G* Watching the descriptions of rods, the tapers, the action etc. brings tomind a question I've thought about and until recently was in quite adilemma over. And that is, how does a customer convey to the rodmakerwhatthey want in a cane rod ? I'll try not to ramble too much, but let me do so to get my point acrosssoyou can comment. *S* Let's take the graphite series as a counter example. I can go to justabout any good flyshop and cast all manner of rods -- Makes, models,lengths, action, weight, feel, and even looks. With home flyshops, I caneven take out loaners and work them on a creek for the day. I could thengo to a graphite- assembler, they would get the 'right' blank and assembleme a rod that I probably would be happy with, having tried out likemodels. Not so with the cane series at all. There aren't that many cane buildersaround, and ones you might order up a cane are from other parts of thecountry. Sure, there is the odd-shop that carries very very expensivecane for sale, but not a variety of lengths, weights and tapers. Then too,some of us customers would hestitate to take some of these new andantiquecane out and cast them, if only in the adjacent parking lot. Intrigued a few years ago by the 'talk of cane' through emailcorrespondence, I was fortunate to receive two cane rods to try out.Immediately I knew they were not for me nor my style of fishing. I gaveone gift back, and sold the one I had bought. Another avenue of pursuit, websites of cane builders . People like mebookmark the various websites you all have, look at the images, whichAREbeautiful, read the description .... but of course, what is oneman's/woman's description of a cane rod is not another's. What is fastormedium fast to me may not be to the builder. Parabolic seems todescribethe cane ( and graphite ) that I like. But how to communicate betweencustomer and builder, and builder and customer what could and should bebuilt. Because we're not talking a $200 rod, the decision on the specs ISimportant. What a bummer that I, or any other customer would get a$750-$1500 cane rod after several months or even years of waiting onlytofind that it is not what we thought it would be. ( This is allhypothetical of course. ) That's my question then, how do you as builders translate what thecustomerthinks they want, what they envision in their hands, the 'action' of saidrod, and build it ? I can't believe that every customer is soknowledgable and so in-synch with the builder that all is clear in thedescription. Me personally? Finally DID get a cane that instantly was 'mine', fit mystyle, my fishing, my casting, my creeks. That was luck I wager. Icould have waited for decades to find the 'right one' ... comments ?SueColorado -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod from saweiss@flash.net Fri Apr 9 23:24:29 1999 Subject: Re: How do you decide/advise customers ? Hi Sue,I haven't made many rods yet, but I have been a casting instructor for awhile. I try to assess a person's casting style, find out what kind offishing will be done at what distances, what the person's favorite rodsare, and then make an educated guess about a suitable rod length, lineweight, and taper. In the end, I will take the rod back if the customer isnot satisfied. I can do this because I want the customer to be happy and,after all, the rod is my product and I don't want to force anyone to pay forsomething he is not happy with. Life is too short to be a hardass over aflyrod.Steve Hello Sue, Your question is vital. Though I am an amateur rod maker, I have alwayshad the same quesiton in mind. from a maker's view points, there may beseveral ways of understanding how a rod is like, such as patterns and its feeling of casting, etc.. All those things are understood with the combination of modeled patternand feeling which actually experienced. So it may be the best way forcustomer to try out several actions of rods. IMHO, makers should also try to have some good ways to show customerswhat their rods are like,anyway, from the view point of customers as well as offering as manytrial opportunities. Thanks for stimulation, Max Sue K wrote: Good evening to the rodmakers list,^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I'm still on here, scanning the posts and fascinated that there is somuchbanter on the how-to's. I shouldn't be, knowing full well that almostevery aspect of flyfishing can command miles of email *G* Watching the descriptions of rods, the tapers, the action etc. brings tomind a question I've thought about and until recently was in quite adilemma over. And that is, how does a customer convey to the rodmakerwhatthey want in a cane rod ? I'll try not to ramble too much, but let me do so to get my point acrosssoyou can comment. *S* Let's take the graphite series as a counter example. I can go to justabout any good flyshop and cast all manner of rods -- Makes, models,lengths, action, weight, feel, and even looks. With home flyshops, Icaneven take out loaners and work them on a creek for the day. I could thengo to a graphite- assembler, they would get the 'right' blank andassembleme a rod that I probably would be happy with, having tried out likemodels. Not so with the cane series at all. There aren't that many canebuildersaround, and ones you might order up a cane are from other parts of thecountry. Sure, there is the odd-shop that carries very very expensivecane for sale, but not a variety of lengths, weights and tapers. Thentoo,some of us customers would hestitate to take some of these new andantiquecane out and cast them, if only in the adjacent parking lot. Intrigued a few years ago by the 'talk of cane' through emailcorrespondence, I was fortunate to receive two cane rods to try out.Immediately I knew they were not for me nor my style of fishing. Igaveone gift back, and sold the one I had bought. Another avenue of pursuit, websites of cane builders . People like mebookmark the various websites you all have, look at the images, whichAREbeautiful, read the description .... but of course, what is oneman's/woman's description of a cane rod is not another's. What is fastormedium fast to me may not be to the builder. Parabolic seems todescribethe cane ( and graphite ) that I like. But how to communicate betweencustomer and builder, and builder and customer what could and shouldbebuilt. Because we're not talking a $200 rod, the decision on the specsISimportant. What a bummer that I, or any other customer would get a$750-$1500 cane rod after several months or even years of waitingonly tofind that it is not what we thought it would be. ( This is allhypothetical of course. ) That's my question then, how do you as builders translate what thecustomerthinks they want, what they envision in their hands, the 'action' of saidrod, and build it ? I can't believe that every customer is soknowledgable and so in-synch with the builder that all is clear in thedescription. Me personally? Finally DID get a cane that instantly was 'mine', fitmystyle, my fishing, my casting, my creeks. That was luck I wager. Icould have waited for decades to find the 'right one' ... comments ?SueColorado --Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod from Ed_Dickson@bc.sympatico.ca Sat Apr 10 00:08:45 1999 Subject: planing forms for a new rod builder... Several commercial planing forms are currently available to the homecane rod builder. Without the ability to line them up side by side tocheck out and compare, how does one decide which is most suitable?Bearing in mind that I am a new builder, any feedback on performance,precision ect. would be appreciated. Ed Dickson from cattanac@wmis.net Sat Apr 10 04:26:47 1999 mail4.wmis.net (8.8.8/SCO5) Subject: Re: How do you decide/advise customers ? Sue -You have hit on one of the hard issues of the 'business' aspect ofmaking bamboo fly rods. It's one thing to make rods for yourself as anenjoyable hobby - it's another hard won education when one choses tostartselling them to the public. But there are some guidelines that cansomewhatcut to the core of the issues. My personal belief is that first you need tobe a 'guru' (knowing as much about making the rods as you can ) about rodmaking and then you need to be a 'guru' ( again knowing as much as you can)about what ever fishing situation you are selling your rods to. It is thisbalance of knowing what can be made and understanding how they will beusedthat will result in happy camper situations. making and not so much about the selling. Perhaps it is viewed as sacredground. The reality for most of us, myself included, is that each of us arelimited in the amount of free time that we have away from the 'GoldenHandcuff' jobs that hold us captive. I am convinced that that is why thecraft is shared so openly - if we are honest with ourselves - even if wechose to sell rods we are very limited in production and at that point thecompetition will take a back seat.So how does a maker and a client come to terms. The goal is to deliver afly rod that will be the persons most favorite and most used. There areseveral aftermarket advantages to this. But chances are that the clientwillhave never fished a bamboo fly rod - so you need to put one in their hands.I have several fly rods floating around the countryside - they are earlierwork - the explaination to the client is - this rod is to fish if you choseto buy one it will be of current craftmanship and appearance. The test rodsaren't just to lawn cast - they are to be fished and that should beencouraged. The feedback comments will tell you where you need to gowithlength and tapers. But before the test rod should come a conversation ofthetype of streams and conditions that the client fishes most - then applywhatyou know to help select length and line weight. This is where streamexperience comes into play - the more varied the experience the easier itisto recommend a correct rod. Look at this on the bright side - now you cantell the spouse that all that time away is helping to advance the businesssavy. from firsthand experience I'll share that that goes over Really ReallyBig.Perhaps it is a personal business ideal of mine - I never want to see arod I made for resale - if a potential client isn't elated with what I haveto offer - move on. And if the words 'Salmon' or 'Steelhead' are mentionedin the conversation - I'll pass. I have seen a couple makers have severalrods broken and abused by those that chase these species and I don't needthe grief or conflict that might come up.Gee Sue - if I were to guess - You are from Colorado? - You need a rodthat can deal with some wind yet will cast a trico to football sizeCutthroats in the 'Pan'? And you occassionally will hike into the hills forpetite streams and Alpine lakes? - 7' 6" #4 weight 3 piece - parabolicaction with a high amplitude??? Close??? from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Sat Apr 10 05:16:19 1999 with SMTP(MDaemon.v2.80j.R) for ; Sat, 10 Apr 199906:16:34 -0400 Subject: Re: How do you decide/advise customers ? Gee Sue - if I were to guess - You are from Colorado? - You need arodthat can deal with some wind yet will cast a trico to football sizeCutthroats in the 'Pan'? And you occassionally will hike into the hillsforpetite streams and Alpine lakes? - 7' 6" #4 weight 3 piece - parabolicaction with a high amplitude??? Close??? Wayne: As always your wisdom shines through. I concur with your assessment. Frommy numerous trips to Colorado to fish on rivers like the "Pan" and the"Gunnison" or up on the Grand Mesa in some natural small lakes. You havepicked the perfect rod. JoeBoy from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Apr 10 07:06:07 1999 "brookie@frii.com" Subject: Re: How do you decide/advise customers ? Sue The real expertise comes with experience. Reed is right - goto the rodmakers gathering and you will cast more fine rods in oneweekendthen you will in the rest of the year. Besides casting other makers rodsthere,I have also cast numerous orignals (Paynes, Dickersons, Garrison, Leonard, and Gilliums) at these gatherings. You end up building rods that meet yourstyle and expectations as to what a good rod should be - everyone isdifferentand it does depend on fishing conditions. As far as advising a customer - let him cast your rod(s). Do not tryand out guess him - you will end up wrong. I keep the original prototype ofall models I offer for sale (Important note here - do not ever sell anythingyouhaven't built). Also encourage the customer to bring their reel and the flyline(fly lines make a big difference) and cast the rods you offer for sale. Thisisthe only way you can close the gap between expectations and reality. Chris On Fri, 09 Apr 1999 19:01:30 -0600, Sue K wrote: Good evening to the rodmakers list,^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I'm still on here, scanning the posts and fascinated that there is so muchbanter on the how-to's. I shouldn't be, knowing full well that almostevery aspect of flyfishing can command miles of email *G* Watching the descriptions of rods, the tapers, the action etc. brings tomind a question I've thought about and until recently was in quite adilemma over. And that is, how does a customer convey to the rodmakerwhatthey want in a cane rod ? I'll try not to ramble too much, but let me do so to get my point across soyou can comment. *S* Let's take the graphite series as a counter example. I can go to justabout any good flyshop and cast all manner of rods -- Makes, models,lengths, action, weight, feel, and even looks. With home flyshops, I caneven take out loaners and work them on a creek for the day. I could thengo to a graphite- assembler, they would get the 'right' blank and assembleme a rod that I probably would be happy with, having tried out likemodels. Not so with the cane series at all. There aren't that many cane buildersaround, and ones you might order up a cane are from other parts of thecountry. Sure, there is the odd-shop that carries very very expensivecane for sale, but not a variety of lengths, weights and tapers. Then too,some of us customers would hestitate to take some of these new andantiquecane out and cast them, if only in the adjacent parking lot. Intrigued a few years ago by the 'talk of cane' through emailcorrespondence, I was fortunate to receive two cane rods to try out.Immediately I knew they were not for me nor my style of fishing. I gaveone gift back, and sold the one I had bought. Another avenue of pursuit, websites of cane builders . People like mebookmark the various websites you all have, look at the images, whichAREbeautiful, read the description .... but of course, what is oneman's/woman's description of a cane rod is not another's. What is fast ormedium fast to me may not be to the builder. Parabolic seems todescribethe cane ( and graphite ) that I like. But how to communicate betweencustomer and builder, and builder and customer what could and should bebuilt. Because we're not talking a $200 rod, the decision on the specs ISimportant. What a bummer that I, or any other customer would get a$750-$1500 cane rod after several months or even years of waiting onlytofind that it is not what we thought it would be. ( This is allhypothetical of course. ) That's my question then, how do you as builders translate what thecustomerthinks they want, what they envision in their hands, the 'action' of saidrod, and build it ? I can't believe that every customer is soknowledgable and so in-synch with the builder that all is clear in thedescription. Me personally? Finally DID get a cane that instantly was 'mine', fit mystyle, my fishing, my casting, my creeks. That was luck I wager. Icould have waited for decades to find the 'right one' ... comments ?SueColorado Regards Chris from cattanac@wmis.net Sat Apr 10 08:14:03 1999 mail4.wmis.net (8.8.8/SCO5)with SMTP id JAA07185 for ; Sat, 10 Apr Subject: Re: How do you decide/advise customers ? Joe -On the wall behind the workbench in the cave I have a collection ofpersonal memorbilia - among the photos is one of a 'happy camper' holdingabamboo fly rod and a 27" Cutthroat - they are knee deep in water andbacked fish. from HARMS1@prodigy.net Sat Apr 10 09:29:11 1999 Sat, 10 Apr 1999 10:29:05 -0400 Subject: Re: How do you decide/advise customers ? =_NextPart_000_01BE833C.A382FE60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE833C.A382FE60 Sue, This is indeed one of the most difficult issues for us. Frankly, I have no build one and two-piece rods in only four lengths ( from 6' to 7 1/2'), and describe exactly how my rods "feel."This is not because my rods are any more (or less) remarkable than thosebuilt by any other maker, but because every caster's preference as tocasting style and "feel" is altogether subjective -- a matter of one's ownskill level, peculiar physiology, timing- habits, taste and fishing needs. Except, perhaps, for "fishing needs," these other factors cannot really beput into words either by buyer or maker. "Parabolic," "nymphing rod," "medium flex with classic dry-fly tip action" are just words. They meanSOMETHING, but not nearly as much as either buyer or maker really NEEDthemto mean. We try, but we cannot expect a very precise meeting of theminds. If a customer cannot actually try out a given maker's rod, I suppose theonly thing one can do in communicating one's needs would be to find a rod properties, and use that rod as the common "talking point" to arrive atthe rod you want. Cheers, Bill ----------From: Sue K Subject: How do you decide/advise customers ?Date: Friday, April 09, 1999 6:01 PM Good evening to the rodmakers list,^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I'm still on here, scanning the posts and fascinated that there is somuchbanter on the how-to's. I shouldn't be, knowing full well that almostevery aspect of flyfishing can command miles of email *G* Watching the descriptions of rods, the tapers, the action etc. brings tomind a question I've thought about and until recently was in quite adilemma over. And that is, how does a customer convey to the rodmakerwhatthey want in a cane rod ? I'll try not to ramble too much, but let me do so to get my point acrosssoyou can comment. *S* Let's take the graphite series as a counter example. I can go to justabout any good flyshop and cast all manner of rods -- Makes, models,lengths, action, weight, feel, and even looks. With home flyshops, Icaneven take out loaners and work them on a creek for the day. I could thengo to a graphite- assembler, they would get the 'right' blank and assembleme a rod that I probably would be happy with, having tried out likemodels. Not so with the cane series at all. There aren't that many canebuildersaround, and ones you might order up a cane are from other parts of thecountry. Sure, there is the odd-shop that carries very very expensivecane for sale, but not a variety of lengths, weights and tapers. Thentoo,some of us customers would hestitate to take some of these new andantiquecane out and cast them, if only in the adjacent parking lot. Intrigued a few years ago by the 'talk of cane' through emailcorrespondence, I was fortunate to receive two cane rods to try out.Immediately I knew they were not for me nor my style of fishing. I gaveone gift back, and sold the one I had bought. Another avenue of pursuit, websites of cane builders . People like mebookmark the various websites you all have, look at the images, whichAREbeautiful, read the description .... but of course, what is oneman's/woman's description of a cane rod is not another's. What is fastormedium fast to me may not be to the builder. Parabolic seems todescribethe cane ( and graphite ) that I like. But how to communicate betweencustomer and builder, and builder and customer what could and should bebuilt. Because we're not talking a $200 rod, the decision on the specsISimportant. What a bummer that I, or any other customer would get a$750-$1500 cane rod after several months or even years of waiting onlytofind that it is not what we thought it would be. ( This is allhypothetical of course. ) That's my question then, how do you as builders translate what thecustomerthinks they want, what they envision in their hands, the 'action' of saidrod, and build it ? I can't believe that every customer is soknowledgable and so in-synch with the builder that all is clear in thedescription. Me personally? Finally DID get a cane that instantly was 'mine', fitmystyle, my fishing, my casting, my creeks. That was luck I wager. Icould have waited for decades to find the 'right one' ... comments ?SueColorado ------=_NextPart_000_01BE833C.A382FE60 Sue,This is indeed = as I might, I cannot make words alone describe exactly how my rods ="feel."This is not because my rods are any more (or less) =remarkable than those built by any other maker, but because every = altogether subjective -- a matter of one's own skill level, peculiar = really be put into words either by buyer or maker. = = = expect a very precise meeting of the minds. If a customer cannot =actually try out a given maker's rod, I suppose the only thing one can =do in communicating one's needs would be to find a rod by a known maker =that you DO like, mic its taper, specify any of its other properties, = = = of us customers would hestitate to take some of these new and = = cane = question then, how do you as builders translate what the = ------=_NextPart_000_01BE833C.A382FE60-- from brookie@frii.com Sat Apr 10 10:20:19 1999 Subject: customer advice ( long ) Ahh RM list, you bring out the verbose in me. It's Saturday, hopefully aquiet day on your List and you will oblige some longwindness. You'llunderstand that word longwindness as you progress. Those not enamoredwithwords best to DELETE now ! *G* Your comments thus far ARE exactly what I knew I was looking for when Iposed the question of " how do you as builders translate what thecustomerthinks they want, what they envision in their hands, the 'action' of saidrod, and build it ? " First, casting at gatherings/shows : Absolutely I can see that going to gatherings to test/cast rods would behelpful. Particularly liked the idea of taking one's reel/line too. (Grinning here ), although that DOES smack of the classic perfectionist,pedantic sort of thing, which *I* will ascribe to in a fledgling sort ofway *VBG* In this post, I don't mean to take each piece of advice you allgave and counter it, but let me DO parry on this one of casting at a show. Consider yourself a female ( I know I know, it's not easy at all ), you'vebeen flyfishing for a couple of decades, you love it as much as the nextguy/gal. Of late you've been turned on to cane. You head out to a'gathering', held in a large building with all manner of mostly men whohave the same glint in their eye for the cane as you do. You sally up ,or in my case, sue-up, to the casting pool. I suppose like the dealers'shows that the cane gatherings have casting pools, eh ? You line up withfour or five others. And begin to cast. Can you imagine the number ofeyes on you, as a woman, as you cast ? ( grinning again ). I wager thereare a few flyfishers that relish in folks watching them cast. But forevery one of those, bet there are a hundred of us that cringe at thethought. Every imaginable casting faux pas would be committed. *S* Iknow when I've been fortunate to be at the Denver flyfishing dealers'shows, when Joan W. goes to the casting pool, all eyes ARE on her !! Andwell they should. The lady is a master, or is that mistress, of casting.Superb. So while the advice of going to gathering and casting 30-50 rods is apossible, it's not likely for me. Wish that I had the self esteem to dothat .... howsomever..... Onward then to Wayne C's comments. I don't know you Wayne, new to theList and cane I am, but I like your style, like your thought processeshere. IMNSHO, you have the customer in mind. Plus you are crafty*VBG*... ! This business of selling the idea to your spouse that you mustgo out and work the cane on the stream in order to know what thecustomerwould want/like/use, is classic wonderful ! Wayne said in part : But before the test rod should come a conversation of thetype of streams and conditions that the client fishes most- then apply what you know to help select length and lineweight. This is where stream experience comes into play -the more varied the experience the easier it is to recommend a correct rod. Look at this on the bright side -now you can tell the spouse that all that time away is helping to advance the business savy. from firsthand experience I'll share that that goes over Really ReallyBig. And this just might be a key here. Well alright, I'll agree it IS ! Howcan a builder build without having experienced what *I* am going toexperience with the rod. And yes, on my Colorado creeks. But no, (biggrin), no fishing for footballs on the "Pan". Gave that up about 5 yearsago, way way too crowded and a long drive for me. Unless the builder HAS fished the smaller high altitude creeks thattrickle, flow, cascade and meander in my mountains, how would they knowwhat type of rod I would like. Factor in, the wind doth blow in Colorado.Nay quite as much as in Wyoming because unlike them, we DO have trees(just kidding wyoming). Yes indeed, the wind / breeze IS a factor. Interesting, I don't think a friend of mine that used to be on the RM Listis still active here, but Jonathan Clarke from Fla. comes to Colorado everyyear, sometimes twice. He fishes some of the same creeks that I do. He'knows' the waters. This summer when he arrives will be quite adifference in our flyfishing excursions. Since last year, I HAVE come tofish with cane as my exclusive rod of choice. Perhaps I will be able toarticulate, and certainly show him the positive advantages that *I* seeandlike in the rod. But how to communicate that to him, and be big enough tohear him out with HIS suggestions. My personal belief is that first you need to be a 'guru' (knowingas much about making the rods as you can ) about rod making and then you need to be a 'guru' ( again knowing as much as you can)about what ever fishing situation you are selling your rods to. It is this balance of knowing what can be made and understanding how they will be used that will result in happy camper situations. Could I offer a third component to the balance ? Of course, it appearsthere are rodmakers that ARE building for their personal pleasure, and notselling nor making or attempting to make a living at it. But for thosethat are selling to the public ? That third compoment, in addition tobeing a guru on making the rods, and a guru on fishing situations, IS, aguru of people skills, communication skills. Tough one for anyone,including rodmakers to get a grip on. Could take a whole lifetime.Consider this though, if a rodmaker had the time, which you don't, it wouldbe great if a correspondence or verbal communication would take place. Notjust an 'order', not just a " I want one just like you built for my friendGeorge ", but dialoguing about all aspects of who, what, when, where, howand why of the customer's intended use of said cane. No, none of us has the time. Look at what Wayne has done though, he hasguessed, mostly correctly at the type of fishing I would do with my cane : Gee Sue - if I were to guess - You are from Colorado? - You need a rod that can deal with some wind yet will cast a trico to football size Cutthroats in the 'Pan'? And you occassionally will hike into the hills for petite streams and Alpine lakes? - 7' 6" #4 weight 3 piece - parabolic action with a high amplitude???Close??? Well, strike the "Pan", and go with the other, almost exclusively, withsome additional information. I live very close to Rocky Mountain Nat'lPark, therefore my home waters ARE (1) petite creeks IN the Park that areon average 10 or 15' across holding brookies up to 12" and browns a tadlarger, (2) larger streams nearby that flow from the mountains that aremore classic, look like the Pan, variety of fishing, pockets, pool,riffles, flats, tailwaters, and decidedly larger fish, up to the 16".Feisty and strong. Rarely above a 16" size, no 20-24" fish. Couple thatwith those breezes and winds that come shooting through the canyons. Verylittle over hanging brush to contend with. I don't fish heavy waters, norunoff conditions. Get out at least 60-80 days a year, mostly in the earlyspring ( break for runoff ), then all summer and fall. No winter fishingat all. Add to this, my own personal preferences which are only good for 1999mindya. I reserve the right to change my mind, which IS done annually *VBG*.I like what friends have described in action parlance as medium fastaction, love the lightweight rods so the 'feel' of the fish is quantumlymore expressive ( e.g., a 12" fish on a cane that feels like you have a 16"), love the 3 wt series in both cane and graphite thus far. Like smallerreels, in love with a FLYWEIGHT right now. Not sure about line. Have ahankering to try silk lines someday, currently flowing a SA XPS throughthecane, tried a Cortland before. Jury still out. And of course, haven't even discussed hardware and grip ! *G* Perhaps it is a personal business ideal of mine - I never want to see a rod I made for resale - if a potential client isn'telated with what I have to offer - move on. And here we agree totally ! Never have I been 'elated' about any of mygraphites. In fact, instead of keeping all the un-elated graphites, Imerely pass them on to others. Give them away. I have only four rods,two cane and two graphite. I have however become ELATED about my cane.I'm preaching to the choir here, but the look, the lines, the feel of caneis exquisite. The wrappings are Art in and of themselves. The hardwareis critical to me. I know what I like in visualness. All of this somehow has to be conveyed from the customer to the builder.Fascinating. Just wish I could have been turned on to cane alot sooner than now. Thoseof you out there that ARE in your 20's and 30's, pursue this with vigor, bythe time you're in middle age, you'll have tremendous information base tomake selections ! *VBG* Tell what I'm going to do, I have access to accurate micrometers at work.I'll have one of the scientists assist me with miking the taper on myfavorite cane and post the measurements on the Rodmakers List for yourcomments. Help me again though, in doing this, it would be good if we (a)each measurement is done at how many points on the cane, (b) every 5", (c)if 5" increment is on a wrapping, go to next available open spot, (d) notewhether varnished or not, (e) note which is top section and which is buttsection ? Any other advice before I do this ? sueColorado from channer@hubwest.com Sat Apr 10 11:19:02 1999 (SMTPD32-4.06) id AA4E82D022C; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 10:20:30 MST Subject: Re: customer advice ( long ) At 09:19 AM 4/10/99 -0600, Sue K wrote: Ahh RM list, you bring out the verbose in me. It's Saturday, hopefully aquiet day on your List and you will oblige some longwindness. You'llunderstand that word longwindness as you progress. Those not enamoredwithwords best to DELETE now ! *G* Sue;Thanks for starting this thread, it is the most interesting that we havehad around here for a while! As for measuring your rod, assemble it andstart at the tip and measure every 5". Take 3 measurements at each 5"pointand either average them, or post all 3 numbers if you feel like typing thatmuch. Where there is a guide or ferrule in the way of a 5" station, simplymeasure at the closest point and record the actual measurement, with thecomputer progams developed by Wayne and others, the program willextrapolate the measurements for each station. Also note whethere thevarnish coat appears to be very thin or very thick.Making a rod to match one that you already own may appear to be a fairlysimple task at first glance, but be aware that no two rods will be exactlythe same. There are many hidden variables in natural materials likebambooand the type of glue used and how thick a layer is left after binding willall affect the final outcome. The better your casting ability, the more youwill notice any differences. This is not to say that a reproduction willnot be as good as the original, it may turn out better, just that it islikely to feel different. I live down in Durango and it sounds like we fish the same variety ofwaters. I don't know exactly what you are looking for, but I know that Ihave several rods that i use according to where I go. for tailwaters Icurrently use a Paul Young Perfectionist taper, 7'6" 4 wt., mostly becauseit is the newest rod I have made for myself, but also because it is a greatall around rod. Before that the rod du jour for the San Juan was an 8' 5wtGarrison 212 taper that was the first rod I built. I still use it on windydays and when the fish aren't rising and I (shudder) have to fish nymphs. Ihave found that I prefer the Perfectionist for fishing small dries, even inthe wind. For small mountain streams i have a 7' 4 wt. Payne 98 that is avery nice little rod for small water and small fish, but as soon as I getthe time i am going to make myself a 6'3" Paul Young Midge taper rod. Ibuilt one a few years ago and sold it and have missed it ever since.I get around the "what do you want" question by selling most of my rodsona consignment basis thru a local fly shop, so the rod sells itself, thecustomer gets to try it out and decide right there if it is the rod for himor not. I have taken a few orders for rods that the customer has not had achance to try out and so far none of them have been returned, so i musthave guessed right! About all the advise i can offer you about buying a rodis to ask if the maker has a demo rod that he can send you to try and thentell him what changes in the demo you would like the rod you order to haveand make sure that he offers satisfaction guaranteed.Hope this has been of helpJohn from stpete@netten.net Sat Apr 10 12:57:34 1999 Sat, 10 Apr 1999 13:01:21 -0500 Subject: Grizzly 7"x10" mini-lathe Wil, and all, Since I made note to the list of my recent purchase of the Grizzly7"x10"mini- lathe, I thought I owed it to the list to make the followingdiscoveries regarding this lathe. 1. You don't get the use of the full 10" between centers. John Z madenote of this in a thread I found on the archives. I get to use maybe 7"or 8" depending on the device in the tailstock. I can get another 3/4"out of it by cutting the MT#2 taper short and grinding it down so thatfits flush to the tailstock bearing. 2. I've already figured that I'll have to make a hollowed out MT#2piece with a some sort of bearing in it to turn grips (I need all teninches to turn 6-1/2" grips)3. Another alternative is to remove the tailstock and clamp a homemadedevice to support the reelseat end. Sort of like you have to do to theblank sticking out of the headstock.4. Other than that, it seems to be a nice little lathe. Rick C. from chris@artistree.com Sat Apr 10 16:20:43 1999 Subject: Re: How do you decide/advise customers ? mac-creator="4D4F5353" Wayne Cattanach wrote: This is where stream experience comes into play - the more varied theexperience the easier it isto recommend a correct rod. Look at this on the bright side - now you cantell the spouse that all that time away is helping to advance thebusinesssavy. Hmmm...sounds like a neat tax deduction to me. makers rods. I counted about 10 different cane makers (including the bigcompanies) at the local show here in Feb. Not all have their own booths butifyou keep an eye open while walking through the show you can find them.- -Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from rsgould@cmc.net Sat Apr 10 19:10:18 1999 Subject: advice and consent short version Hi Sue,When in the workshop I always show the customer the large coloredphotograph of my "big fish" a 32 1/2" Kamloops trout taken in a lake inB.C.on one of my 8 ft x 7wt cane rods. It does inspire folks somewhat!Ray from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Apr 10 21:47:29 1999 Subject: Re: customer advice ( long ) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sue,I believe my wife, Marcia, has responded to your earlier post to the effect that cane of the same taper do not always cast the same. The rodsshe mentioned are parabolic, 3 pc. rods for 5 wt forward line, 71/2' long. Ihave also made 3 ,2 pc. rods of the same taper and length, all of which cast essentially the same. One of the 3 pc. rods is a little faster than the other. So, what does this tell us? It says that even if I have a customer that likes a given test rod duplicating it may be difficult if the client is a very good caster. What this means for me is I may build one or two rods a client before he's satisfied. The rod he doesn't like may be someoneelse's perfect rod.Again, I'm building (drying the last wraps on the 2nd tip as we speak) a 3wgt,71/2 for a fishing friend on the strength of another friend's rodwhich I built. While I had the forms set I planed 3 rods-each one is slightly different-which one will my customer like? Damned if I know-he'll haveto try 'em all.All this comes down to getting the rod in the hands of the customerafter ascertaining the type of fishing and trying to interpret his/her verbalization of his/her casting preference. While Wayne did a great jobof guessing your fishing conditions, for windy times I'd prefer a 5 wgt, 71/2'-Just an old man's $.02.RegardsHank Woolman. from Ed_Dickson@bc.sympatico.ca Sun Apr 11 00:29:31 1999 Subject: planing forms by John Valk... I am seeking more info on planing forms built by John Valk. An addressto reach John, and any comments from builders who use his forms wouldbeappreciated. Many thanks. Ed Dickson from djk762@hotmail.com Sun Apr 11 00:50:50 1999 Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:50:18 PDT Subject: Cork Specialties Florida Rodmakers, Has anyone bought cork from Cork Specialties in florida recently? Can anyone recommend a source for cork in moderate (100 - 200 rings)quantities?Thanks All, David Kashuba. _______________________________________________________________Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com from leroyt@involved.com Sun Apr 11 09:35:18 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5 release 215 ID# 0-52297U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Sun, 11 Apr 1999 07:35:14 -0700 Subject: ferrules boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE83ED.D5541DA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE83ED.D5541DA0 Rodmakers, Have any of you tried other materials to make ferrules? Would=like to hear your experences, comments, or suggestions. Thanks in =advance. Leroy. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE83ED.D5541DA0 Rodmakers, Have any of you tried= to make ferrules? Would like to hear your experences, comments, or = Thanks in advance. Leroy. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE83ED.D5541DA0-- from maxs@geocities.co.jp Sun Apr 11 14:11:33 1999 bysv01.geocities.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W) with ESMTP id EAA13170; Mon, 12Apr 1999 04:11:29+0900 (JST) mail.geocities.co.jp (1.3G-8.9.3/GeocitiesJ-3.0) with ESMTP id EAA21433;Mon, 12 Apr 199904:11:28 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: ferrules Leroy, I tried stainless, brass as well as Nickel Silver. I do not recommend stainless, it is too sticky to turn, very difficultand failed.Brass is nice, easy to turn and result will not be disapointed.Am also interested in making ferrules from other materials, forinstance, from plastic, glass fiber, etc. someday. Nickel Silver was the best in appearance and easyness of turning. Soldering moisture cap is easier by using pipes if availble, thanturning out from solid, though I am making them from solid. Max leroy teeple wrote: Rodmakers, Have any of you tried other materials to make ferrules?Would like to hear your experences, comments, or suggestions. Thanksin advance. Leroy. -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sun Apr 11 14:21:48 1999 Subject: Re: ferrules Has anybodt tried Monel? Rob Hoffhines from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Apr 11 14:55:10 1999 Subject: Quad rod test Finally test cast the 3 piece quad version of the Sir Darryl Favorite. A quad rod is unique. At first it feels wimpy. Close in castsare slow and delicate. As casts get longer, the rod somehowfinds more backbone and keeping prodigious amounts of linein the air is easy. Anyone who uses a cane rod ought to treathimself and try a quad rod. Darryl from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sun Apr 11 17:01:57 1999 (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP Sun, 11 Apr 1999 22:01:24 +0000 Subject: Re: ferrules The other George (Herter) recommended it in some of his writings. George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: ferrules Has anybodt tried Monel? Rob Hoffhines from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sun Apr 11 19:31:17 1999 Subject: Re: Quad rod test Darryl,How did you adapt six tad ferrules to a quad blank? Or (gulp) do you make your own?I seem to remember that at one time you were into flaming alone as yourheat treatment. With soaking your strips before milling, are you now using anoven?My handmill rod #1 (Howell's PHY Perfectionist) is ready to go into thetank. Rob Hoffhines from thramer@presys.com Sun Apr 11 21:52:21 1999 0700 Subject: Re: How do you decide/advise customers ? Sue K wrote: Good evening to the rodmakers list,^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I'm still on here, scanning the posts and fascinated that there is so muchbanter on the how-to's. I shouldn't be, knowing full well that almostevery aspect of flyfishing can command miles of email *G* Watching the descriptions of rods, the tapers, the action etc. brings tomind a question I've thought about and until recently was in quite adilemma over. And that is, how does a customer convey to the rodmakerwhatthey want in a cane rod ? I'll try not to ramble too much, but let me do so to get my point acrosssoyou can comment. *S* Let's take the graphite series as a counter example. I can go to justabout any good flyshop and cast all manner of rods -- Makes, models,lengths, action, weight, feel, and even looks. With home flyshops, I caneven take out loaners and work them on a creek for the day. I could thengo to a graphite- assembler, they would get the 'right' blank and assembleme a rod that I probably would be happy with, having tried out likemodels. Not so with the cane series at all. There aren't that many cane buildersaround, and ones you might order up a cane are from other parts of thecountry. Sure, there is the odd-shop that carries very very expensivecane for sale, but not a variety of lengths, weights and tapers. Then too,some of us customers would hestitate to take some of these new andantiquecane out and cast them, if only in the adjacent parking lot. Intrigued a few years ago by the 'talk of cane' through emailcorrespondence, I was fortunate to receive two cane rods to try out.Immediately I knew they were not for me nor my style of fishing. I gaveone gift back, and sold the one I had bought. Another avenue of pursuit, websites of cane builders . People like mebookmark the various websites you all have, look at the images, whichAREbeautiful, read the description .... but of course, what is oneman's/woman's description of a cane rod is not another's. What is fastormedium fast to me may not be to the builder. Parabolic seems todescribethe cane ( and graphite ) that I like. But how to communicate betweencustomer and builder, and builder and customer what could and should bebuilt. Because we're not talking a $200 rod, the decision on the specs ISimportant. What a bummer that I, or any other customer would get a$750-$1500 cane rod after several months or even years of waiting onlytofind that it is not what we thought it would be. ( This is allhypothetical of course. ) That's my question then, how do you as builders translate what thecustomerthinks they want, what they envision in their hands, the 'action' of saidrod, and build it ? I can't believe that every customer is soknowledgable and so in-synch with the builder that all is clear in thedescription. Me personally? Finally DID get a cane that instantly was 'mine', fit mystyle, my fishing, my casting, my creeks. That was luck I wager. Icould have waited for decades to find the 'right one' ... comments ?SueColoradoHi Sue, The problem you are talking about is a problem now, was a problem in thepast and dare I say.... The solution I arrived at was to do what I do and leave the fitting of arod to a customer to another professional, the few people who honorablysell bamboo without a direct builder type of interest. I am amazed athow well my three dealers fot a rod to a 'type' of interested angler. Acompletely seperate skill than building the rods and it seems to behighly undervalued.A.J.Thramer from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sun Apr 11 22:06:28 1999 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1998.03.08.20.27)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, Subject: Ferrules I have just bought a small Taig metal lathe, read a1945 copy of The Machine Shop Training Course, andwould like to take a crack at making ferrules fromsolid nickel silver rod. Would anyone know of a sourceof information on ferrule design? Is there a standardlength? Are truncated ferrules a specific length orjust shorter than standard ferrules? How deep show thebamboo insert into the ferrule? What's the differencebetween a Super Swiss and a Super Z (if any)? Thattype of info. Thanks in advance, Richard from dryfly@erols.com Sun Apr 11 22:27:11 1999 Subject: Re: Ferrules Check out Chris Bogart's web page, he has some info on making ferruleshttp://www.shentel.net/canerod/HTML/ClassIndex.html -----Original Message----- Subject: Ferrules I have just bought a small Taig metal lathe, read a1945 copy of The Machine Shop Training Course, andwould like to take a crack at making ferrules fromsolid nickel silver rod. Would anyone know of a sourceof information on ferrule design? Is there a standardlength? Are truncated ferrules a specific length orjust shorter than standard ferrules? How deep show thebamboo insert into the ferrule? What's the differencebetween a Super Swiss and a Super Z (if any)? Thattype of info. Thanks in advance, Richard from jczimny@dol.net Sun Apr 11 22:32:59 1999 Subject: Re: Ferrules Richard et al,Dave Leclair has a really good set of specs and instructions onferrules. Also, Cecil Pierce wrote a really good article on ferrulemaking. Chris Bogart has tubing in most or the needed sizes to makeferrules.As long as the slide length is 2 1/s times the diameter it is strongenough. The need for a longer comes from glueing surface area andlapping to fit.Truncated ferrules are shorter.The cane should be in about double the slide length.Super Swiss and Super Z are the same. Lou Fierabend owned the patent tothe Super Z until the 70's. I believe that the patent is now in thepublic domain.John Z Richard Nantel wrote: I have just bought a small Taig metal lathe, read a1945 copy of The Machine Shop Training Course, andwould like to take a crack at making ferrules fromsolid nickel silver rod. Would anyone know of a sourceof information on ferrule design? Is there a standardlength? Are truncated ferrules a specific length orjust shorter than standard ferrules? How deep show thebamboo insert into the ferrule? What's the differencebetween a Super Swiss and a Super Z (if any)? Thattype of info. Thanks in advance, Richard from maxs@geocities.co.jp Sun Apr 11 23:58:40 1999 bysv01.geocities.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W) with ESMTP id NAA17720; Mon, 12Apr 1999 13:58:36+0900 (JST) mail.geocities.co.jp (1.3G-8.9.3/GeocitiesJ-3.0) with ESMTP id NAA01571;Mon, 12 Apr 199913:58:35 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Ferrules Richard, Look at the page 114 of Garrison/Carmichael's Master Guide.There is a formula of calculating slide length for an inner diameter(blank dimension) of ferrules of Super Z.It says, B=3.9 x D. B is slide length of male. D is innter diameter of theferrule (=blanks dimension). As for the wall thickness, it is not shown for every size but 1/64' isenough forNo. 16 size for male slide.We can adjust the wall thickness of female and male based on the size offerrules based on this.In my case, male and female have the same wall thickness at slide andsleeve.Sleeve length of female should be equal to the slide length of male. The remained length on female is equal to the sleeve length plusmoisture cap thickness. standard with above ruling. Max Richard Nantel wrote: I have just bought a small Taig metal lathe, read a1945 copy of The Machine Shop Training Course, andwould like to take a crack at making ferrules fromsolid nickel silver rod. Would anyone know of a sourceof information on ferrule design? Is there a standardlength? Are truncated ferrules a specific length orjust shorter than standard ferrules? How deep show thebamboo insert into the ferrule? What's the differencebetween a Super Swiss and a Super Z (if any)? Thattype of info. Thanks in advance, Richard -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Apr 12 02:33:39 1999 Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:30:04 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: ferrules On Sun, 11 Apr 1999 Nodewrrior@aol.com wrote: Has anybodt tried Monel? Rob Hoffhines The problem with Monel is it's pretty hard stuff and a lot more expensivethan NS but it'd work. Tony /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb? A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from chris@artistree.com Mon Apr 12 05:32:03 1999 Subject: Re: Ferrules mac-creator="4D4F5353" Ran into a guy here who was using Duro-bronze. Same as Winston I think.Can't even imagine where you could purchase stock. Any ideas? --Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Apr 12 08:37:59 1999 Subject: Re: Quad rod test In a message dated 4/11/99 4:50:36 PM, you wrote: Darryl,That has also been my experience. Quads are supposed to be "stiffer" thana hex rod, but that is not true in the sense that flyfishers usually define stiffness, which is the initial feel you get when flexing a rod or casting with a short line. What is true is that the quad seems to deal with loading better than the hex. It isn't very scientific, but I think the initial softer feel is due to the fact that the outer edge of the rod is nearer to the centerline of the rod compared to a hex of equal area. On the other handthe side of a quad is wider than that of a hex, so more material is available in the area that chiefly bears the load. At least that is what I think is going on. I hasten to add that all of this is dependent on taper. It is entirely possible to build a quad with a stiff feel. It will weigh a bit more than a comparable hex, but be much more powerful. from mschaffer@mindspring.com Mon Apr 12 08:42:19 1999 Subject: Sorry Sorry guys, computer just fritzed up and sent out a bunch of mail bymistake! It's MONDAY!! (G) Doc (Mike Shaffer)(mschaffer@mindspring.com) from Canerods@aol.com Mon Apr 12 09:04:59 1999 Subject: Re: ferrules In a message dated 4/11/99 12:23:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Nodewrrior@aol.com writes: Has anybodt tried Monel? Rob Hoffhines Granger used it back in the '40's/'50's. Monel costs more and adds no benefits. I believe Rick's Rods is selling left-over Granger Monel ferrules. Don Burns from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Apr 12 11:17:03 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:16:57 -0500 Subject: Re: customer advice ( long ) Ahh, Sue, this list will bring about the worst of one's verbosity, will itnot? In spite of the reputation of my profession, I will try to be brief.There isn't really all that much I might add to the wisdom of those morelearned members of this list - John, Wayne, Hank, A.J., et al. But I wouldlike to counteract one statement you made in reply to Wayne. Ego, self- esteemshould have no bearing on one's willingness to try the rods at anyGathering.I am a very poor caster, and tried enough rods at a gathering last fall tofallin love with a few. As far as being intimidated by being a member of thefairer sex, that should have NO bearing. We had several femaleparticipants atthat Gathering, at least one of whom was .... Well, I am a minister, so I'llhush. Come join us. If you think this group is interesting on the screen,wait till you meet some of them face to face.As a hobbiest rod maker, (who sells an occasional rod to support thehobby)one of the greatest joys in rodmaking is discovery. I fish Arkansas' WhiteRiver frequently; a huge tailwater, with almost no dry fly fishing (well, nodry fly CATCHING :-) ). Finding the right rod to cast size14-24 nymphs,with atiny yarn drift indicator, at distances of up to 60 feet, while still beingable to maintain control of the line, and not break off the requisite 6Xtippets: Well, you can see the challenge. I'm close on my seventh try. But Isure did have fun with the first six.If you're interested in knowing what I think is "getting it right,"show up at this year's Southern Rodmakers Gathering. We've got at leastoneother person from Colorado coming.Thanks for starting this, and I sure do enjoy the challenge of trying tocome up with one of those rods that makes one swoon.Harry Boydhttp://www.mindspring.com/~ccurrojr/srg99 (Southern RodmakersGathering site) from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Apr 12 12:30:14 1999 KAA04411 (5.5.2407.0) If anybody is interested, I was at one of the local fly shops this weekendand they had acopy of the Garrison/Carmichel book on the shelf in the box for $75.00 from rmoon@ida.net Mon Apr 12 13:18:11 1999 0000 Subject: Re: Pat I think that Mark Metcalf at the Bamboo Flyrod Mag has some copiesas well.Ralph from dhaftel@att.com Mon Apr 12 13:31:52 1999 (8.8.8+Sun/ATTEMS-1.4.1 sol2) (5.5.2232.9) Subject: FW: I got mine from Cabela's mail order catalog. Dennis -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Pat I think that Mark Metcalf at the Bamboo Flyrod Mag has some copiesas well.Ralph from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Apr 12 14:28:32 1999 Subject: Re: Quad rod test How did you adapt six tad ferrules to a quad blank? Or (gulp) do you make your own? Not having the lathe to make my own, and trying not to overly complicatethings, I just rounded the quad and fit the ferrules like I would with a hex.There are two shools of thought on tab placement on a hex - the splitsgo at the apexes school - and - the splits go on the flats school. Some say it's stronger with the tabs reinforcing the glue line with the tabscovering the apexes. Well, on a quad with a commercially availableferrule you get both. Two diagonally opposing corners get the splitsand the other diagonally opposing corners get the tabs. Still seems towork okay. I seem to remember that at one time you were into flaming alone asyour heat treatment. With soaking your strips before milling, are you now using an oven? I use a piece of galvanized pipe and heat it with a heat gun to dry strips aftermilling wet. Darryl from Canerods@aol.com Mon Apr 12 15:10:29 1999 Subject: Varnished Orvis rods? All, I have just acquired a bamboo rod that appears to be a varnished Orvis rod from the '40's or '50's. But having not seen any varnished Orvis rods from this time period I can't be sure. The rod: It's an 8' (2/1) rod with a dark reddish/brown cane color, a NS ferrule set and appears to be of high quality overall. There's no shaft markings on the rod, however it does have the same reelseat and walnut spacer that I have seen on Orvis 99 and Battenkill rods. The grip shape is also of similarshape (longer than on my 7' 99), however, the winding check (rev. curved cone shape) is not of the same design as on my Model 99 from 1955. The wrap job is of amateur workmanship - funky red/gold (?) two colorwraps. Each wrap has twin color (banded) wraps - not jasper thread, but several turns of red - followed by several gold .... The varnish is starting to go bad (why I guessed '40's/50's rod) and I'm not sure if it isn't an Orvis impreg blank that has been varnished. (????) I can easily pull off varnish with my fingernail and the cane under it is much redder than my Orvis 99 blank. Questions: 1) How can I make sure it is/is not an impreg blank?2) Can I use a varnish stripper on the rod without hurting the impreg'edcane if it is impregnated?3) Anyone own/have seen rods matching this rod's discription?4) Is it an Orvis kit rod? Maybe a Wes Jordan-era blank? (due to reddish/brown color) Any help in ID'ing the rod will be appreciated. Thx in advance and email off list if you like, Don BurnsCanerods@aol.com from Canerods@aol.com Mon Apr 12 15:19:23 1999 Subject: Varnished Orvis rods? (part II) I forgot - the ferrules are not blued. dgb from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon Apr 12 16:20:59 1999 Subject: Grand Rod Gathering, Fergus, Ont., May 29,30, 1999 =_NextPart_000_01BE8508.AD087DC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE8508.AD087DC0 Several people have asked me to send the "Gathering " information in atextformat because the original message could not be opened. One of mycomputer literate friends explained how this could be done. Paper clippedare the original two information sheets in the "txt" format which I amgiven to understand can be opened by most computers. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE8508.AD087DC0 THIRD NORTH EASTERN BAMBOO ROD BUILDERS GATHERING TheThird North Eastern Rod Builders Gathering will be held at Belwood =Lake Conservation Area on Saturday May 29 and Sunday May 30, 1999 =(Memorial Day weekend). Belwood Lake is the location of the Shand Dam, =the source of the cold water which has resulted in 18 miles of world =class Brown trout fishing on the Grand River, down stream through the =villages of Fergus and Elora. Several trout over 25" were recorded in =1998, and 16" to 18" fish are common. See FLY FISHERMAN magazine, =summer, 1995, for information about fishing the Grand. The Belwood Lake location has a renovated barn for meetings. Fifty feet =away there is a casting pond for our use stocked with Rainbow trout up =to 4 pounds. The main Grand River is a short walk for those who want to =take time out for a few minutes of fishing. One of my friends hooked =and released an eight pound Brown just 10 minutes from our meeting =place. The Elora and Fergus area is a very popular recreational area and we =highly recommend that you make your accommodation reservations asearly =as possible. A list of hotels and bed-and-breakfasts is available from =the Fergus District Chamber of Commerce, P.O. Box 3, Fergus, Ont., N1M =2W7, or telephone 519-843-5140. Camping is available in Elora Gorge Conservation Area about 4 miles from=our meeting area. Some of the camp sites border the river and some of =the better fishing stretches. Conservation Area, R.R. #4, Fergus, Ontario, N1M 2W5, Telephone and =Fax, (519) 843-2979 There are several full service fly fishing shops and guiding services in =the area. Call me for more information about these. See our website for more information. =http://www.pathcom.com/~blades The definitive source for information about hatches, patterns, and where =to fish on the Grand River is FLY FISHING THE GRAND RIVER by Drs.. Ian =Martin and Jane Rutherford. The book is available at the fishing shops =at an approximate cost of $20.00. Belwood Lake is 70 miles from Toronto, 45 miles from Hamilton, Ontario,=100 miles from Buffalo, New York, and 190 miles from Detroit, Michigan. To register for the Rod Builders Gathering send cheque in the amount of =$50.oo Can. or $40.oo US , includes lunches and admission. Total =registration is limited.Ted Knott166 Oneida Blvd.=09Ancaster, Ontario, Canada, L9G 3C9 Sept./98 brb99 ------=_NextPart_000_01BE8508.AD087DC0 UP-DATE: THIRD NORTH EASTERN BAMBOO ROD BUILDERS =GATHERING,FERGUS,ONTARIO, MAY 29, 30, 1999 The third "Grand Gathering" of the North Eastern Bamboo Rod Builders, =May 29, 30, 1999, at Fergus, Ontario, is shaping up to be another ="grand" event! So far we have confirmed Jerry Kustich, Winston =rodmaker, on Winston manufacturing practices, and Jerry's summer fishing= Al Medved with his bamboo beveller, and if its finished, his new bamboo =taper mill; George Maurer, owner of Sweet Water Rods, on finishing and =his visit to China to look at bamboo; John Zimny; Bill Waara, the =Michigan rod builder's guru on splitting bamboo and maximizing the =number of strips; John Long on hollow built and nodeless rods; Alan =Gnann about REC Components; and the usual "newbies" offerings of basic =rod building workshops on getting started and basic rod building =skills. In addition we have local fly shops giving presentations on river =conditions and what's hatching and working. The River is only 10 =minutes away from where we meet, and you can escape for a few minutes =of fishing, or you can try for the 3 pound rainbows stocked in the =casting pond just 50 feet away from where we meet. Our accommodation is capped at about 70 persons, and last year we =reached that number. We suggest that you register early. brb991 ------=_NextPart_000_01BE8508.AD087DC0-- from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Apr 12 16:26:22 1999 Subject: Quad test In a message dated 4/12/99 8:17:40 PM, rsgould@cmc.net wrote: Actually, I have talked with Per about this. He agrees with what you have written in your fine book. His thought was that I and the others who have made matched sets of quads and hexes did not compensate for the roundsurface of the cane, and therefore did not exactly match the tapers. because of the greater loss of material on the flat of the quad. I have a lot of respect for Per's opinion and am keeping an open mind about this. My experience,however is that quads feel a bit softer, and have a smoother, wider range of power.I have a slow casting stroke, and like quads a lot. from saltwein@swbell.net Mon Apr 12 16:52:57 1999 QAA21287 Subject: BFRM Does anyone have the latest on the condition of the magazine. Is itgoing to stay afloat, and if so when is the next edition due? TIA. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from lblan@provide.net Mon Apr 12 17:48:17 1999 Subject: RE: Garrison/Carmichel Ebay has an original edition up right now. It was $75.00 last night. -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu WSent: Monday, April 12, 1999 1:30 PM Subject: If anybody is interested, I was at one of the local fly shops this weekend and they had a copy of the Garrison/Carmichel book on the shelf in the box for $75.00 from SBDunn@aol.com Mon Apr 12 18:21:14 1999 Subject: Re: Quad test Pardon this from a lurker, but it begs an interesting question (or at least I think it is interesting) and that is would the rod become much more stiffif the guides were put on a glue line, rather than a flat? I'll bet it would. Regards, Steve. from utzerath@execpc.com Mon Apr 12 19:31:37 1999 Subject: ID Please? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE851A.F66DFDC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE851A.F66DFDC0 A friend at work showed me a "Cooks Tarryall" he had been given. Can =anyone tell me about it? It looks like a production rod, a cut above =the average Japanese quality with an agatine stipper and decent cane =work. It has a cylindrical felt-lined "case" with four contoured =grooves for the four sections (3/2); then the whole thing goes into a =cloth bag. Never seen one before. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE851A.F66DFDC0 A friend at work showed me a = looks like a production rod, a cut above the average Japanese quality = "case" with four contoured grooves for the four sections = before. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE851A.F66DFDC0-- from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Tue Apr 13 10:21:16 1999 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1998.03.08.20.27)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, Subject: Mounting ferrules I mounted my first ferrules last night and thingsturned out to be easier than in the books. I turnedthe ends of the blank on my lathe until I could justbarely slide on the ferrule. It was so tight that I attimes had difficulty pulling it off. I then soaked thetubes containing the epoxy and hardener for my 24- hourepoxy in warm water for about 20 minutes to make themmore malleable. I then covered the tip of the rod withepoxy and added more to the inside of the ferrule,slid on the ferrule, and pressed it against myworkbench. I was expecting this to go very slowly, asdescribed in Howell's book. Instead, it slid on inabout 30 seconds. I then wrapped with binding thread. This went so well I'm now thinking I didn't do thisright and the tip will come flying off with the firstgood double haul. Shouldn't this be tough? Richard from Ed.Estlow@co.hennepin.mn.us Tue Apr 13 10:33:55 1999 1999 15:32:55 UT 16-1998)) id86256752.0052A49D ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:02:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Quad test Steve and the List, As it turns out, the stiffness (as indicated by the moment of inertia or,moredirectly, the section modulus) is a function of the cross sectional shapeitself, not its orientation. Thus, a quad oriented in a "diamond" rather thana"square" (with respect to the vertical) will not change its flexingqualities.This can be shown by working with the beam formulas. Of course, this is for a beam of isotropic material. That is, a material ofconstant properties everywhere, in every direction. As we all know, caneisanything but that, what with power fibers being of nonconstant density,gluelines, nodes, etc. Thus, caveat emptor. Now for the heresy. In order to rigorously calculate what cane will do, onehasto go to structural formulas for composite materials, ones that do NOThaveconstant properties everywhere, in every direction (nonisotropic). Youknow,materials like fiberglass and graphite. Best regards,-Ed Estlow SBDunn@aol.com on 04/12/99 06:19:38 PM Please respond to SBDunn@aol.com cc: Subject: Re: Quad test Pardon this from a lurker, but it begs an interesting question (or at least Ithink it is interesting) and that is would the rod become much more stiffifthe guides were put on a glue line, rather than a flat? I'll bet it would. Regards, Steve. from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Apr 13 10:52:59 1999 Subject: Re: BFRM Does anyone have the latest on the condition of the magazine. Is itgoing to stay afloat, and if so when is the next edition due? TIA. I've read the pre-press copy of the latest edition, but can't vouch Darryl from Ed.Estlow@co.hennepin.mn.us Tue Apr 13 11:08:14 1999 1999 16:07:17 UT 16-1998)) id86256752.00586283 ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:05:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Quad test Now that I posted that, I'm not so sure. I'll check my notes (at home,unfortunately) get back to the list tomorrow. Best intentions & regards-Ed Estlow Ed.Estlow@co.hennepin.mn.us on 04/13/99 08:37:04 AMPlease respond toEd.Estlow@co.hennepin.mn.us cc: Subject: Re: Quad test Steve and the List, As it turns out, the stiffness (as indicated by the moment of inertia or,moredirectly, the section modulus) is a function of the cross sectional shapeitself, not its orientation. Thus, a quad oriented in a "diamond" rather thana"square" (with respect to the vertical) will not change its flexingqualities.This can be shown by working with the beam formulas. Of course, this is for a beam of isotropic material. That is, a material ofconstant properties everywhere, in every direction. As we all know, caneisanything but that, what with power fibers being of nonconstant density,gluelines, nodes, etc. Thus, caveat emptor. Now for the heresy. In order to rigorously calculate what cane will do, onehasto go to structural formulas for composite materials, ones that do NOThaveconstant properties everywhere, in every direction (nonisotropic). Youknow,materials like fiberglass and graphite. Best regards,-Ed Estlow SBDunn@aol.com on 04/12/99 06:19:38 PM Please respond to SBDunn@aol.com cc: Subject: Re: Quad test Pardon this from a lurker, but it begs an interesting question (or at least Ithink it is interesting) and that is would the rod become much more stiffifthe guides were put on a glue line, rather than a flat? I'll bet it would. Regards, Steve. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Apr 13 11:20:01 1999 Subject: Re: Mounting ferrules rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Richard,I find that most of the processes that we go through in this rod building are easier than most books say, especially the Garrison book. I'm still mounting my ferrules by hand as I don't have a lathe. The hardest partseems to be seating the ferrule on the fitted blank-if I dress the blank down to a full round I have to file a groove to let the air out of the ferrule, otherwise with the corners turned down not to the flats there is enoughspace cleaned inside.Regards,Hank W. from brookie@frii.com Tue Apr 13 11:37:49 1999 Subject: Appreciate comments, advice, input A quick hello to the Rodm. List, I have a houseguest in town, so emailingis at a premium right now. I must admit that I messed up on sendingsomeof the Rodm.'s members comments on a couple of my posts to my homewithoutnoting whether they also went to the list-at-large too. Because I'm notsure, I will not answer nor post on these emails to the List, rather amwriting those of you who wrote me, a private email. Good suggestions and comments. I'll watch the postings for a sometimeclose-by cane show, and head off. No reason not to. Esp. liked a commentI got that the casting at cane shows is alot different than the doublehauling casting jockeys at a graphite show. Had to chuckle at that.Surely, there ARE some wonderful casters at the pools, but there AREthosethat grab a stick and work out more line than would ever be used onwaters,to the sometimes-dismay of the caster next to them at the pool. I've seennear-disasters occur there. Again, appreciate the comments. I'm not currently looking for a new norold cane. Was just mumbling outloud about how you all came to some ofyourconclusions, and again, thoroughly enjoyed the comments ! cheers,SUEcolorado from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Apr 13 11:41:15 1999 Wed, 14 Apr 1999 00:40:57 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: Mounting ferrules Richard,sounds about right, the only reason the ferrule may pop off is if it hascontamination in the ferrules, though I happen to know the brand you usedwas well cleaned.I'd be careful of too many double hauls on a regular basis though, the rodmay pay for it. Tony On Tue, 13 Apr 1999, Richard Nantel wrote: I mounted my first ferrules last night and thingsturned out to be easier than in the books. I turnedthe ends of the blank on my lathe until I could justbarely slide on the ferrule. It was so tight that I attimes had difficulty pulling it off. I then soaked thetubes containing the epoxy and hardener for my 24- hourepoxy in warm water for about 20 minutes to make themmore malleable. I then covered the tip of the rod withepoxy and added more to the inside of the ferrule,slid on the ferrule, and pressed it against myworkbench. I was expecting this to go very slowly, asdescribed in Howell's book. Instead, it slid on inabout 30 seconds. I then wrapped with binding thread. This went so well I'm now thinking I didn't do thisright and the tip will come flying off with the firstgood double haul. Shouldn't this be tough? Richard /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb? A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from rsgould@cmc.net Tue Apr 13 11:47:34 1999 Subject: Quad test on the glue lines Hi Steve,If I understand wwhat you are saying about the quad's stiffnes it is toplace the guides on the glue lines which would be on the corners of thesquare. The stiffness of a square is the same whether the bending axis isthrough the center of the flats or through the corners of the diagonal. Thecalculated moment of inertia is the same, therefore the stiffness will bethe same.Ray from dpvbkjs@somtel.com Tue Apr 13 18:23:08 1999 Subject: Quad stiffness Just a thought. As Ray's book indicates (p79), the moment of inertia of asquare section is 0.0833 X the flat-to-flat dimension raised to the fourthpower, and the MOI for a hexagonal section is 0.060 X the flat-to- flatdistance, raised to the fourth power, so, it seems to me, a quad with thesame flat-to-flat dimension as a hexagon has to be stiffer. Or, we coulddecrease the flat-to-flat dimension on a quad by equating the MOIs of thequad and the hexagon, and end up with a rod of the same stiffness with asmaller flat-to-flat dimension, and, therefore, maybe a lighter rod. David from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Apr 13 19:01:02 1999 (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP Wed, 14 Apr 1999 00:00:29 +0000 "richard.nantel@videotron.ca" Subject: Re: Mounting ferrules Ricard Why make it so hard on your self. You got the fit easy enough. Now rough up theinside of the ferrule - you can first clean with acetone or mineralspirits as you like. I use a 5 minute extra strength thick epoxygel that will allow you to glue and bind. Now you can lape your ferrulesin 10 minutes afterwards for a good fit. Have not lost a ferrule yet. Chris On Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:18:19 -0400, Richard Nantel wrote: I mounted my first ferrules last night and thingsturned out to be easier than in the books. I turnedthe ends of the blank on my lathe until I could justbarely slide on the ferrule. It was so tight that I attimes had difficulty pulling it off. I then soaked thetubes containing the epoxy and hardener for my 24- hourepoxy in warm water for about 20 minutes to make themmore malleable. I then covered the tip of the rod withepoxy and added more to the inside of the ferrule,slid on the ferrule, and pressed it against myworkbench. I was expecting this to go very slowly, asdescribed in Howell's book. Instead, it slid on inabout 30 seconds. I then wrapped with binding thread. This went so well I'm now thinking I didn't do thisright and the tip will come flying off with the firstgood double haul. Shouldn't this be tough? Richard from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Tue Apr 13 19:04:33 1999 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1998.03.08.20.27)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, Subject: More Ferrule questions Nickel silver is obviously the material of choice forthe production of ferrules. How much of that, though,is due to tradition or cosmetics? Chris has mentionedthat Paul Young used aluminum on some rod models. Ifaluminum is strong enough, it would certainly be cheapand easy to work in a lathe. What materials other thannickel silver can be used succesfully for ferrules?What are the pros and cons of these alternatematerials? Thanks in advance, Richard from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Apr 13 19:26:13 1999 Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:25:53 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: More Ferrule questions I think the advantage of NS over most other metals is primarily beingbronze it is resistant to corrosion while not being prone to workhardening. It's also not dif to work with and reasonable price wise. I should have thought Al would gall, I know all metals will to some extentif they're the same and in a tight fit but Al has some wierd charistics aswell as getting surface corrosion pretty quickly that would lead toferrule sticking. On the other hand if PHY used it with success.... Tony On Tue, 13 Apr 1999, Richard Nantel wrote: Nickel silver is obviously the material of choice forthe production of ferrules. How much of that, though,is due to tradition or cosmetics? Chris has mentionedthat Paul Young used aluminum on some rod models. Ifaluminum is strong enough, it would certainly be cheapand easy to work in a lathe. What materials other thannickel silver can be used succesfully for ferrules?What are the pros and cons of these alternatematerials? Thanks in advance, Richard /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb? A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from rsgould@cmc.net Tue Apr 13 21:04:34 1999 Subject: Ferrule materials Hi gang, copper alloys such as nickel silver have some special properties that makethem especially appropriate namely high strength, corrosion resistance,canbe easily soldered and can be blackened by chemical treatment. Thesoldering capability is important for installing the moisture dams and endcaps which is where aluminum or titanium may present problems althoughIsuspect one could produce one piece ferrules with additional cost formachining. Maybe more than anything else it's the beauty of a polishednickel silver ferrule that adds a gem-like quality to the hardware that isso appealing. I do recall working on some Winston rods that had bronze ferrules and Inoticed that they wrapped the thread all the way up the ferrule right tothe welt. I can only guess why they did that, perhaps for appearance.Ray from mschaffer@mindspring.com Tue Apr 13 22:51:50 1999 Subject: "Up" again! FWIW- just wanted to let it be known that the old home 'puter be workinagin!!After I did something saturday morning, a buddy came to the rescue andgotthis thing squared away again!I think these things should come with a chain attached--so you won't loseitin the water! (G) Mike from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Tue Apr 13 23:07:46 1999 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id QAA13572; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:07:25 +1200 Subject: Re: Ferrule materials Just a comment that most British rods have brass ferrules , but i do notknow the composition. There are a lot of british rods whch have had a lotofuse .. and seem ok at the ferrules. I have not seen them wrapped in other then then usual way for silvernickel. Iank At 07:04 PM 13/04/99 -0700, Ray Gould wrote:Hi gang, copper alloys such as nickel silver have some special properties thatmakethem especially appropriate namely high strength, corrosion resistance,canbe easily soldered and can be blackened by chemical treatment. Thesoldering capability is important for installing the moisture dams andendcaps which is where aluminum or titanium may present problemsalthough Isuspect one could produce one piece ferrules with additional cost formachining. Maybe more than anything else it's the beauty of a polishednickel silver ferrule that adds a gem-like quality to the hardware that isso appealing. I do recall working on some Winston rods that had bronze ferrules and Inoticed that they wrapped the thread all the way up the ferrule right tothe welt. I can only guess why they did that, perhaps for appearance.Ray from teekay35@interlynx.net Tue Apr 13 23:24:06 1999 "Richard Nantel" Subject: Re: More Ferrule questions I don't know what kind of aluminum ferrules Paul Young used, but doing the"50s an aluminum ferrule with a rubber O ring on the male slide was quitecommon. The o ring insured a tight fit. ----------From: Tony Young Cc: Rodmakers Subject: Re: More Ferrule questionsDate: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 8:25 PM I think the advantage of NS over most other metals is primarily beingbronze it is resistant to corrosion while not being prone to workhardening. It's also not dif to work with and reasonable price wise. I should have thought Al would gall, I know all metals will to someextentif they're the same and in a tight fit but Al has some wierd charisticsaswell as getting surface corrosion pretty quickly that would lead toferrule sticking. On the other hand if PHY used it with success.... Tony On Tue, 13 Apr 1999, Richard Nantel wrote: Nickel silver is obviously the material of choice forthe production of ferrules. How much of that, though,is due to tradition or cosmetics? Chris has mentionedthat Paul Young used aluminum on some rod models. Ifaluminum is strong enough, it would certainly be cheapand easy to work in a lathe. What materials other thannickel silver can be used succesfully for ferrules?What are the pros and cons of these alternatematerials? Thanks in advance, Richard /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb? A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Apr 14 01:03:06 1999 Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:00:36 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Rodmakers Subject: Re: More Ferrule questions Ted,now that sounds interesting. Was the o ring at the rod section end or wasit actually along the male ferrule similar to the rings of a piston?If the ring is somewhere along the male it'd make machining much easieras tolerances wouldn't need be so close and you'd avoid that "stickyness" Al gets. Tony On Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Ted Knott wrote: I don't know what kind of aluminum ferrules Paul Young used, but doingthe"50s an aluminum ferrule with a rubber O ring on the male slide wasquitecommon. The o ring insured a tight fit. ----------From: Tony Young Cc: Rodmakers Subject: Re: More Ferrule questionsDate: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 8:25 PM I think the advantage of NS over most other metals is primarily beingbronze it is resistant to corrosion while not being prone to workhardening. It's also not dif to work with and reasonable price wise. I should have thought Al would gall, I know all metals will to someextentif they're the same and in a tight fit but Al has some wierd charisticsaswell as getting surface corrosion pretty quickly that would lead toferrule sticking. On the other hand if PHY used it with success.... Tony On Tue, 13 Apr 1999, Richard Nantel wrote: Nickel silver is obviously the material of choice forthe production of ferrules. How much of that, though,is due to tradition or cosmetics? Chris has mentionedthat Paul Young used aluminum on some rod models. Ifaluminum is strong enough, it would certainly be cheapand easy to work in a lathe. What materials other thannickel silver can be used succesfully for ferrules?What are the pros and cons of these alternatematerials? Thanks in advance, Richard /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb? A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many cockroaches does it take to change a lightbulb? A. Nobody knows, they all scatter when the light goes on. A Bug's Life. Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Wed Apr 14 07:34:18 1999 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id HAA30700 for; (8.8.4/8.6.8) with SMTP idHAA22652 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 Subject: Re: More Ferrule questions I've got some old fiberglass rods I built on blanks from E Hille, an outfit that lots of you will remember. They have the aluminum ferruleswith a rubber o-ring at the end of the male. There was a specific name where I parked the car. E Hille offered the same blanks with different ferrule types. I think the aluminum were the highest price. It was something like $8.00 for a blank with aluminum ferrules. Seems like a lifetime ago. Maybe itwas :- )......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Tony Young wrote: Ted,now that sounds interesting. Was the o ring at the rod section end or wasit actually along the male ferrule similar to the rings of a piston?If the ring is somewhere along the male it'd make machining much easieras tolerances wouldn't need be so close and you'd avoid that "stickyness" Al gets. Tony from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Wed Apr 14 08:16:15 1999 Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:17:01 -0500 R8.30.00.7) Subject: Re: Quad stiffness Dave,This does not necessarily scan for me. It seems you suggest that a quad with the same flats dimension is close to the weight of the quad since you have made the next assumption that reducing its size to equalize stiffness will result in a lighter rod. Just sketching a diagram shows the quad with the same flats dimension will have substantially more material so reducing size to get an equivalent stiffness will not necessarily get you to a weight less than that of the hex. I would think this could be calculated based on simple trig and the formulas you list but I don't have the time to play around with it. The essential question here really boils down to the role of geometry on stiffness for equal weight. Maybe we should build them like "I" beams?Cheers.Jon McAnulty ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Quad stiffness Author: at Internet-Mail Just a thought. As Ray's book indicates (p79), the moment of inertia of a square section is 0.0833 X the flat-to-flat dimension raised to the fourth power, and the MOI for a hexagonal section is 0.060 X the flat-to-flat distance, raised to the fourth power, so, it seems to me, a quad with the same flat-to-flat dimension as a hexagon has to be stiffer. Or, we could decrease the flat-to-flat dimension on a quad by equating the MOIs of the quad and the hexagon, and end up with a rod of the same stiffness with a smaller flat-to-flat dimension, and, therefore, maybe a lighter rod. David from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Wed Apr 14 09:32:40 1999 Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:33:20 -0500 R8.30.00.7) Subject: Re[2]: Quad stiffness Whoops. First sentence should have read "quad with the same flats dimension is close to the weight of the hex" You guys probably knew this.Jon ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Quad stiffness Author: at Internet-Mail Dave,This does not necessarily scan for me. It seems you suggest that a quad with the same flats dimension is close to the weight of the quad since you have made the next assumption that reducing its size to equalize stiffness will result in a lighter rod. Just sketching a diagram shows the quad with the same flats dimension will have substantially more material so reducing size to get an equivalent stiffness will not necessarily get you to a weight less than that of the hex. I would think this could be calculated based on simple trig and the formulas you list but I don't have the time to play around with it. The essential question here really boils down to the role of geometry on stiffness for equal weight. Maybe we should build them like "I" beams?Cheers.Jon McAnulty ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Quad stiffness Author: at Internet-Mail Just a thought. As Ray's book indicates (p79), the moment of inertia of a square section is 0.0833 X the flat-to-flat dimension raised to the fourth power, and the MOI for a hexagonal section is 0.060 X the flat-to-flat distance, raised to the fourth power, so, it seems to me, a quad with the same flat-to-flat dimension as a hexagon has to be stiffer. Or, we could decrease the flat-to-flat dimension on a quad by equating the MOIs of the quad and the hexagon, and end up with a rod of the same stiffness with a smaller flat-to-flat dimension, and, therefore, maybe a lighter rod. David from rsgould@cmc.net Wed Apr 14 10:06:30 1999 Subject: Aluminum ferrules Hi Frank, The ferrule name you are trying to remember is "Ferrulite". These werealuminum ferrules that had an O-ring near the outboard end of the maleferrule. They are painted gold or black, I still have some of these instock but don't use them on my rods.Ray from Ed.Estlow@co.hennepin.mn.us Wed Apr 14 10:38:09 1999 1999 15:37:13 UT 16-1998)) id86256753.0055A3B2 ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:35:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Re[2]: Quad stiffness Jon, I think you and Dave are arguing the same point, just saying it slightlydifferent. I understood your response (with word correction) and youbasicallysaid the same thing. A quad with the same flat-to-flat dimension as a hexwillbe heavier. Dave said it will be stiffer. At the risk of putting words in hismouth, I don't think he meant to imply that it would weigh the same. Davesaidto reduce the flat-to-flat on the quad until the same stiffness (moment ofinertia) as the hex is reached will possibly make the quad compete withthe hexon a weight basis. To check this, simply match moments of inertia (sameasmatching stifness) and compare the resulting cross sectional areas. Theone withthe smaller area will most likely be the lighter rod. mentionedit yesterday, a quad bending in any plane is the same stiffness. Also, this comparison will only work on four strip quads. A two strip quad,a laRichard Tyree (and Jack Howell and others?), most likely will not have thesameproperties in both the vertical and horizontal planes due to the varyingdensityof the cane. Hope this all helps. Best regards,-Ed Estlow mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu on 04/14/99 09:32:07 AM Please respond to mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu cc: Subject: Re[2]: Quad stiffness Whoops. First sentence should have read "quad with the same flatsdimension is close to the weight of the hex"You guys probably knew this.Jon ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Quad stiffnessAuthor: at Internet-Mail Dave,This does not necessarily scan for me. It seems you suggest that aquad with the same flats dimension is close to the weight of the quadsince you have made the next assumption that reducing its size toequalize stiffness will result in a lighter rod. Just sketching adiagram shows the quad with the same flats dimension will havesubstantially more material so reducing size to get an equivalentstiffness will not necessarily get you to a weight less than that ofthe hex. I would think this could be calculated based on simple trigand the formulas you list but I don't have the time to play aroundwith it. The essential question here really boils down to the role ofgeometry on stiffness for equal weight. Maybe we should build themlike "I" beams?Cheers.Jon McAnulty ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Quad stiffnessAuthor: at Internet-Mail Just a thought. As Ray's book indicates (p79), the moment of inertia of asquare section is 0.0833 X the flat-to-flat dimension raised to the fourthpower, and the MOI for a hexagonal section is 0.060 X the flat-to- flatdistance, raised to the fourth power, so, it seems to me, a quad with thesame flat-to-flat dimension as a hexagon has to be stiffer. Or, we coulddecrease the flat-to-flat dimension on a quad by equating the MOIs of thequad and the hexagon, and end up with a rod of the same stiffness with asmaller flat-to-flat dimension, and, therefore, maybe a lighter rod. David from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Apr 14 11:09:14 1999 Subject: Re: Re[2]: Quad stiffness A quad with the same flat-to-flat dimension as a hex willbe heavier. Dave said it will be stiffer. Both correct. What might be a better comparison (and what I use)is equivalent cross sectional area. Darryl from brookie@frii.com Wed Apr 14 12:06:26 1999 Subject: " high amplitude " Gotta pursue this one in public setting, Hank said to me : While Wayne did a great job of guessing your fishing conditions, for windy times I'd prefer a 5 wgt, 71/2'-Just an old man's $.02. Small thing that Wayne C. said when he was guessing at the type of rod*I*would use, vis a vis the little he knows of my fishing conditions. He usednot only the term "parabolic", but the phrase " high amplitude". I knowthe unwritten rules of a listserv, that one should try the archives first.But trust me on this one, I've never done well at archive searching.Think it's called stubbornness. So what is this high amplitude description as relates to cane ? I DID dothe dictionary search and there are so many comfusing and technicalsounding definitions, I was at a loss to put the phrase to my cane.Although ( grin ), I did like #2, which said : "breadth or range, as ofintelligence ".... Elaboration please ?suecolorado, the northern plateau from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Apr 14 13:40:03 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0500 Subject: Restoration question Friends,I'm restoring an old Heddon Blue Waters for a friend and needsome advice. One tip is crushed for about six inches near theuppermost snake guide. Yes, he stepped on it. The guide is stillthere, but the bamboo is beyond repair. Seems like I have threechoices: 1) Cut the tip down by about 7 inches and install the tip top. B) Splice on a new piece to restore the tip to full length.(But how long? 8 inches, or 18 inches?) 3rd) Make a whole new tip, pilfering the hardware from thedamaged tip. Which one is most politically correct? I know this isn't aGillum or a Kosmic rod? But I don't want to diminish the valueany further. My time isn't a factor either, since this issomething I'm doing for a good friend. Thanks in advance,Harry from BThoman@neonsoft.com Wed Apr 14 13:42:23 1999 Subject: Four-sided Rods With all this talk about four-sided rods I have a question. Does one stilluse the same binder as a hex rod when gluing the strips? It would seem tome that a Garrison style binder may have a better chance of marring theedgeof a strip seeing as how the angles are more acute. Anybody have aproblemwith this happening? Brian ThomanThe Chattahoochee River Rod CompanyParker, Coloradohttp://www.bambooflyrods.com(303) 805-5733 from Canerods@aol.com Wed Apr 14 14:03:26 1999 Subject: Orvis rod All, I decided that my newly acquired Orvis rod wasn't a collector gem and so I started to disassemble it to see if it was made from impregnated cane -or not. The blank is a deep reddish-brown color under the flaking varnish, however, under stripping guides the blank is lighted brown color. So I'm fairly certain that the blank is not an impregnated blank. An earlyvarnished Battenkill? The wraps are deeply covered, in a poorly executed manner, in an epoxy coating. Just how long has Flexcoat (et al) been around? Knowing mighthelp me figure out the rod's age. Also, what color wraps did Orvis use in the '40's/'50's time period? The brown wraps of later years? Does anyone know, off-hand, what thread #matches this thread color? Anyone want me to "mic" this taper? Thanks, Don Burns PS - OBTW, I found out that the touch-up enamel that I purchased for my home's AL sliding doors is a VERY near match for some well-known English reels. from rmoon@ida.net Wed Apr 14 14:04:34 1999 0000 Subject: test I fear I am bumped again. Nothing for 48 hours.Ralph from GROMBACHERA@phibred.com Wed Apr 14 14:43:52 1999 0500 smap (4.1) "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Subject: RE: Orvis rod Don, Sounds like a kit rod. Did it have only 1 tip? Most kit rods had 1 tip (Ileast that is my experience). My shooting star from 1952 has brownwraps -their standard color forever. Epoxy on the wraps -- YIKES!!! I am not surewhen Orvis completely switched over to impregnated blanks, I sure theirwasa transition period, and to-be-varnished blanks might of been pushed intothe rod kit pile. A suggestion: Try and call Orvis in Vermont. I called them about myshooting star (My Mom saw it and bought it for me - great Mom, eh!). Thefella was very helpful with the date and who actually made it. They mightbe able to help you too. Alberta Al Grombacher -----Original Message----- Subject: Orvis rod All, I decided that my newly acquired Orvis rod wasn't a collector gem and so I started to disassemble it to see if it was made from impregnated cane -or not. The blank is a deep reddish-brown color under the flaking varnish, however, under stripping guides the blank is lighted brown color. So I'm fairly certain that the blank is not an impregnated blank. An earlyvarnished Battenkill? The wraps are deeply covered, in a poorly executed manner, in an epoxy coating. Just how long has Flexcoat (et al) been around? Knowing mighthelp me figure out the rod's age. Also, what color wraps did Orvis use in the '40's/'50's time period? The brown wraps of later years? Does anyone know, off-hand, what thread #matches this thread color? Anyone want me to "mic" this taper? Thanks, Don Burns PS - OBTW, I found out that the touch-up enamel that I purchased for my home's AL sliding doors is a VERY near match for some well-known English reels. from jczimny@dol.net Wed Apr 14 15:08:02 1999 0400 "'Rodmakers'" Subject: RE: Four-sided Rods I wouldn't use a Garrison-type binder on a quad.John Z -----Original Message----- Subject: Four-sided Rods With all this talk about four-sided rods I have a question. Does one stilluse the same binder as a hex rod when gluing the strips? It would seem tome that a Garrison style binder may have a better chance of marring theedgeof a strip seeing as how the angles are more acute. Anybody have aproblemwith this happening? Brian ThomanThe Chattahoochee River Rod CompanyParker, Coloradohttp://www.bambooflyrods.com(303) 805-5733 from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Wed Apr 14 15:08:44 1999 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id IAA19774 for ;Thu, 15 Apr 199908:08:36 +1200 Subject: Re: Southern hemisphere gathering A date for this gathering has now been set- the 5th and 6th of November. The location will be Nelson , at the top of the South Island . ( actually mygarage and workshop to be more specific).The casting pond will be RickGriffens dam , about a 1/2 mile down the road.Further casting area will bein the front paddocks. Accomodation will be at our place , we have sons away at University andspare rooms, at our holiday house about 30 minutes away ( but only 15minutes from the Motueka river), and in our front paddock for campervansorcampers. It looks like we could have 5-10 attendees , some from the USA ,Australiaand New Zealand. If anyone is considering attending , and needs more information , let meknow your address and I will send you a pack with information on costs ,flys, locations, maps , etc. regards Iank from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Wed Apr 14 15:31:22 1999 Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:31:20 -0400 "'BThoman@neonsoft.com'","'Rodmakers'" Subject: RE: Four-sided Rods; glue lines (lack thereof) What kind of binder would you use? It's hard for me to imagine anythingthat would be easier on the edges than the semi-circular cradles of aGarrison binder (I built mine using 1 1/4" brass cup hooks), unless there'ssome sort of binder that holds the blank so it doesn't rotate in the binderarms. Or are you saying quads should be bound by hand? In an almost entirely unrelated development, I just had the thrill of takingthe string off my first glued-up blank. Wow! If it gets better than this,I don't know if I can stand it. Anyway, my question has to do with the factthat I used resorcinol. I had been led to expect that this would result inprominent purple glue lines at every corner, sort of like racing stripes. Ieven chose resorcinol partly because I thought this would look neat. But...no glue lines. Nada. Undetectable. Have I done something wrong? Is thisbaby going to fall apart midway through the season? -----Original Message-----From: J. C. Zimny [SMTP:jczimny@dol.net]Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 3:51 PM Subject: RE: Four-sided Rods I wouldn't use a Garrison-type binder on a quad.John Z from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed Apr 14 15:47:20 1999 NAA11053; (5.5.2407.0) "'BThoman@neonsoft.com'","'Rodmakers'" ,"'SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us'" Subject: RE: Four-sided Rods; glue lines (lack thereof) I wrapped my last rod with a milward binder and when it's adjusted right,the rod doesn'trotate, instead the four binding heads rotate around the rod and suspend itin mid air. Theinfeed and outfeed are I 1/2" aluminum pipe. ----------From: Seth Steinzor[SMTP:SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us] Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 1:34 PM Subject: RE: Four-sided Rods; glue lines (lack thereof) What kind of binder would you use? It's hard for me to imagine anythingthat would be easier on the edges than the semi-circular cradles of aGarrison binder (I built mine using 1 1/4" brass cup hooks), unlessthere'ssome sort of binder that holds the blank so it doesn't rotate in the binderarms. Or are you saying quads should be bound by hand? In an almost entirely unrelated development, I just had the thrill oftakingthe string off my first glued-up blank. Wow! If it gets better than this,I don't know if I can stand it. Anyway, my question has to do with thefactthat I used resorcinol. I had been led to expect that this would result inprominent purple glue lines at every corner, sort of like racing stripes. Ieven chose resorcinol partly because I thought this would look neat. But...no glue lines. Nada. Undetectable. Have I done something wrong? Isthisbaby going to fall apart midway through the season? -----Original Message-----From: J. C. Zimny [SMTP:jczimny@dol.net]Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 3:51 PM Subject: RE: Four-sided Rods I wouldn't use a Garrison-type binder on a quad.John Z from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Apr 14 16:44:53 1999 Subject: Re: RE: Four-sided Rods; glue lines (lack thereof) jczimny@dol.net, BThoman@neonsoft.com,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 4/14/99 8:37:11 PM, SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us wrote: Nope - Wait a couple months and the purple will magically appear. BTW,make sure you remove all faint traces of the glue from the surface, or you will also have purple splotches all over the rod. from maxs@geocities.co.jp Wed Apr 14 18:04:12 1999 bysv01.geocities.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W) with ESMTP id IAA05088; Thu, 15Apr 1999 08:04:04+0900 (JST) mail.geocities.co.jp (1.3G-8.9.3/GeocitiesJ-3.0) with ESMTP id IAA14286;Thu, 15 Apr 199908:04:03 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Orvis rod Don, Please mic it and let us know. Max Canerods@aol.com wrote: All, I decided that my newly acquired Orvis rod wasn't a collector gem and soIstarted to disassemble it to see if it was made from impregnated cane -ornot. The blank is a deep reddish-brown color under the flaking varnish,however, under stripping guides the blank is lighted brown color. So I'mfairly certain that the blank is not an impregnated blank. An earlyvarnishedBattenkill? The wraps are deeply covered, in a poorly executed manner, in an epoxycoating. Just how long has Flexcoat (et al) been around? Knowing mighthelpme figure out the rod's age. Also, what color wraps did Orvis use in the '40's/'50's time period? Thebrown wraps of later years? Does anyone know, off-hand, what thread #matchesthis thread color? Anyone want me to "mic" this taper? Thanks, Don Burns PS - OBTW, I found out that the touch-up enamel that I purchased for myhome's AL sliding doors is a VERY near match for some well- knownEnglishreels. -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod from fiveside@net-gate.com Wed Apr 14 18:11:19 1999 (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA16632 for ;Wed, 14 Apr 1999 Subject: Ferrules To the List,Regarding ferrule material and for what it's worth I have a 50's vintagecheap glass flyrod with an aluminum ferrule that has a rubber O-ring atthe