Another approach would be to make the ferrules out of some space-age slippery but strong material. Don't know how this would stack up cost wise but the market would be narrow since the plastic rods have these "built in" so to speak. From: Frank Stetzer Subject: Are NS ferrules old technology? This is just a minor rant, for what its worth... Couldn't ferrules be re-engineered so that they would do theirjob (holding the rod together) without all the fussing to fitto the rod and to each other? I can go into the discount storeand for $25 ($45 Canadian) buy my kids a plastic spinning or fly rod, which they will use and abuse for years, on which the ferrules will NEVER stick, or get too loose, whether it's January or July. It just seems like its the year 2000 (almost) and we are using hundred-year old technology. I'm no materials engineer, but I'd like to have one look at ferrules and figure out something. It seems to my simple mindthat there are three obvious areas improvements: (1) Replacethe NS with some other material that wouldn't oxidize, at least onthe mating surfaces. (How many materials have been invented for similarapplications in the past 50 years? Probably hundreds.); (2) Taper the mating surfaces so they would fit out of the box, and continue to fit after wear, and (3) make them fit hexagonal rods (OK make a few for pentas too). Thats it.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. C. Wilson Gray wgray@uidaho.eduExt. Economist Ph. 208.736.3622University of Idaho Fax 208.736.0843 -------------------------------------------------- "The only thing more expensive than educationis ignorance." -- Mark Twain -- ---------------------------------------------------- from cmj@post11.tele.dk Wed May 12 16:52:38 1999 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0200 Subject: Sv: Are NS ferrules old technology? -----Original Message----- This is just a minor rant, for what its worth... Couldn't ferrules be re-engineered so that they would do theirjob (holding the rod together) without all the fussing to fitto the rod and to each other? I can go into the discount storeand for $25 ($45 Canadian) buy my kids a plastic spinning or fly rod, which they will use and abuse for years, on which the ferrules will NEVER stick, or get too loose, whether it's January or July. It just seems like its the year 2000 (almost) and we are using hundred-year old technology. I'm no materials engineer, but I'd like to have one look at ferrules and figure out something. It seems to my simple mindthat there are three obvious areas improvements: (1) Replacethe NS with some other material that wouldn't oxidize, at least onthe mating surfaces. (How many materials have been invented for similarapplications in the past 50 years? Probably hundreds.); (2) Taper the mating surfaces so they would fit out of the box, and continue to fit after wear, and (3) make them fit hexagonal rods (OK make a few for pentas too). Thats it.......................................................................Frank Stetzer Frank You are not the only one, who has adressed this subject.In a Nordic flyfishing magazine I saw an article about anold swedish gentleman, an autodidact canerod maker.He simply fixed a female ferrule on the tipsection, leavingthe butt as it were, just rounded it, without a ferrule. Claimed he neverhad any failures!!!! Perhaps the tip of the butt could be re-inforced by dipping it in a very thin expoxy mixture? Any ideas abouta way to thin epoxy so much that it will penetrate cane? All You engineers, lets have Your opinions on this one. regards Carsten from DARRELLL@earthlink.net Wed May 12 17:03:12 1999 Subject: Re: Sv: Are NS ferrules old technology? boundary="=PMail:=_0003@@oqOMmcbfW1QwrXr55YiZ" --=PMail:=_0003@@oqOMmcbfW1QwrXr55YiZ the labor, not the material... =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Subject: Sv: Are NS ferrules old technology? -----Original Message----- This is just a minor rant, for what its worth... Couldn't ferrules be re-engineered so that they would do theirjob (holding the rod together) without all the fussing to fitto the rod and to each other? I can go into the discount storeand for $25 ($45 Canadian) buy my kids a plastic spinning or =fly rod, which they will use and abuse for years, on which the =ferrules will NEVER stick, or get too loose, whether it's January or July. It just seems like its the year 2000 (almost) and we are =using hundred-year old technology. I'm no materials engineer, but I'd like to have one look at =ferrules and figure out something. It seems to my simple mindthat there are three obvious areas improvements: (1) Replacethe NS with some other material that wouldn't oxidize, at least onthe mating surfaces. (How many materials have been invented for similarapplications in the past 50 years? Probably hundreds.); (2) Taper =the mating surfaces so they would fit out of the box, and continue to fit after wear, and (3) make them fit hexagonal rods (OK make a few for pentas too). Thats it.......................................................................Frank Stetzer = Frank You are not the only one, who has adressed this subject.In a Nordic flyfishing magazine I saw an article about anold swedish gentleman, an autodidact canerod maker.He simply fixed a female ferrule on the tipsection, leavingthe butt as it were, just rounded it, without a ferrule. Claimed he neverhad any failures!!!! Perhaps the tip of the butt could be re-inforced by =dipping it in a very thin expoxy mixture? Any ideas abouta way to thin epoxy so much that it will penetrate cane? = All You engineers, lets have Your opinions on this one. regards Carsten --=PMail:=_0003@@oqOMmcbfW1QwrXr55YiZ-- from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed May 12 18:16:07 1999 Subject: Re: small rod tapers Any one looking for a small, light line rod, may want to tryone of these out. I've built three of these so far. One for myselfand two for a couple of older gentleman for brook trout fishing.It is a five foot, one weight, two piece. It is great for the smallstreams here in New York. The taper is as follows. 0-.0505-.06010-.06715-.08020-.08725-.09830-.11035-.11840-.13045- .14650-.18255-.24060-.240 I used size 8/64 ferrules. Dave L. from EM11EM22@aol.com Wed May 12 18:26:15 1999 Subject: Re: Sv: Are NS ferrules old technology? Cane rod maker M. Wojnicki is using fiberglass ferrules on 2 of his light line rods. And he has patented the design.E.Louie from dpvbkjs@somtel.com Wed May 12 18:46:53 1999 0400 Subject: Glenn Brackett Just a side note on Glenn Brackett. IMHO, a really nice guy. We stopped and found him outside casting quads. Not only did he take the time to talkbamboo and fishing in Maine, he had a nice sense of humor.... I have whathe says was the first, and I believe could be the only, Glenn Brackettautographed R.L. Winston Company shop apron > David from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed May 12 19:35:18 1999 Thu, 13 May 1999 08:33:59 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: Sv: Are NS ferrules old technology? wugate.wustl.edu id TAA01202 I was thinking about how these cheapo rod ferrules just keep on going onjust the other day when my son asked why this old green solid glassspinning rod I abused as a kid and now my son has mentioned the ferrulesstill pop even though the ferrules are rusty.I thought it was a pretty good question. Tony On Wed, 12 May 1999, [iso-8859-1] Carsten Jorgensen wrote: -----Original Message-----From: Frank Stetzer This is just a minor rant, for what its worth... Couldn't ferrules be re-engineered so that they would do theirjob (holding the rod together) without all the fussing to fitto the rod and to each other? I can go into the discount storeand for $25 ($45 Canadian) buy my kids a plastic spinning or fly rod, which they will use and abuse for years, on which the ferrules will NEVER stick, or get too loose, whether it's January or July. It just seems like its the year 2000 (almost) and we are using hundred-year old technology. I'm no materials engineer, but I'd like to have one look at ferrules and figure out something. It seems to my simple mindthat there are three obvious areas improvements: (1) Replacethe NS with some other material that wouldn't oxidize, at least onthe mating surfaces. (How many materials have been invented forsimilarapplications in the past 50 years? Probably hundreds.); (2) Taper the mating surfaces so they would fit out of the box, and continue to fit after wear, and (3) make them fit hexagonal rods (OK make a few for pentas too). Thats it.......................................................................Frank Stetzer Frank You are not the only one, who has adressed this subject.In a Nordic flyfishing magazine I saw an article about anold swedish gentleman, an autodidact canerod maker.He simply fixed a female ferrule on the tipsection, leavingthe butt as it were, just rounded it, without a ferrule. Claimed he neverhad any failures!!!! Perhaps the tip of the butt could be re-inforced by dipping it in a very thin expoxy mixture? Any ideas abouta way to thin epoxy so much that it will penetrate cane? All You engineers, lets have Your opinions on this one. regards Carsten /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from robert.kope@cwix.com Wed May 12 20:25:54 1999 with SMTP id forRODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 13 May 1999 01:25:20 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Are NS ferrules old technology? Frank, Even with space age ferrules you would still have the problem of attachingthem to the cane. Maybe you could make the ferrules an integral part oftheblank. Then, while we're on the subject of old technology, we shouldconsider using some modern material for this integral blank/ferrule. Modernmaterials would give you better QC and eliminate the variability presentinbamboo as well as the problem of dealing with nodes. Heck, you could evenmake them lighter by making them hollow and, if you made them round, youwould never have to worry about twists in the blank. Maybe you could usesomething like fiberglass or graphite. I understand these materials have ahigh modulus and could probably be used to make rods that are faster thanbamboo. They would also be imune to the effects of moisture damage,moreheat resistant, and wouldn't take a set. Yep, I think you're onto something here Frank. It's a wonder somebodyhasn't thought of this before ;>) -- Robert Kope -----Original Message----- Subject: Are NS ferrules old technology? This is just a minor rant, for what its worth... Couldn't ferrules be re-engineered so that they would do theirjob (holding the rod together) without all the fussing to fitto the rod and to each other? I can go into the discount storeand for $25 ($45 Canadian) buy my kids a plastic spinning orfly rod, which they will use and abuse for years, on which theferrules will NEVER stick, or get too loose, whether it's January orJuly. It just seems like its the year 2000 (almost) and we areusing hundred-year old technology. I'm no materials engineer, but I'd like to have one look atferrules and figure out something. It seems to my simple mindthat there are three obvious areas improvements: (1) Replacethe NS with some other material that wouldn't oxidize, at least onthe mating surfaces. (How many materials have been invented for similarapplications in the past 50 years? Probably hundreds.); (2) Taperthe mating surfaces so they would fit out of the box, and continue tofit after wear, and (3) make them fit hexagonal rods (OK make a few forpentas too). Thats it.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from Nodewrrior@aol.com Wed May 12 21:22:33 1999 Subject: Re: Are NS ferrules old technology? Am I crazy, or does Scott advertise a "glass" ferruled version ofWojnicki's rods? Anybody ever see one? Hoffhines from mrj@aa.net Wed May 12 22:18:50 1999 Wed, 12 May 1999 20:18:46 -0700 Subject: RE: Are NS ferrules old technology? Well last I checked, Bamboo rods were a Hundred year old technology so itkind of fits right in I think. I mean, we are not doing rocket science here.Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Are NS ferrules old technology? It just seems like its the year 2000 (almost) and we areusing hundred-year old technology. Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from Craig.Naldrett@ibm.net Thu May 13 01:42:04 1999 (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA132192 for; Thu, 13 May 199906:42:00 GMT Subject: Scary Sharp Location Have seen this mentioned in the Archives, curious about sequence ofpaper used etc. URL I found in a few places that should point to it comes back URL noton server etc. I triedwww.mv.com/ipusers/gunterman/SCARY.HTMAnybody found it recently?ThanksCraig from SalarFly@aol.com Thu May 13 02:24:48 1999 Subject: Re: Are NS ferrules old technology? Ferrules for cane rods can be made out of sections of an oldgraphite rod. The old tip over butt graphite ferrule design. Think about it for a minute and it isn't very hard to do, and you can geta lot of ferrules out of a cheap blem graphite rod blank. A graphite ferrule introduces less of a flat spot in the flexing ofa cane rod, but it went against my sensibilities of what a cane rod should look like. If you try this yourself don't tell me about it! (shudder) Darryl from chris@artistree.com Thu May 13 03:56:54 1999 Subject: Re: Are NS ferrules old technology? Seems to me Ray Gould's description of a cane rod w/ a graphite insertmight be a good place to start. Instead of using it throughout theentire blank how about using it just in the ferrule area? One could even add a nickle/silver covering to the outside. A "facade"so to speak that looks like a ferrule and is aesthetically pleasing.Just a late night thought :) Chris Wohlford from jjohnso4@bellsouth.net Thu May 13 06:06:57 1999 HAA10416; Subject: Re: Scary Sharp Location At 12:37 AM 5/13/99 -0600, Craig Naldrett wrote: Have seen this mentioned in the Archives, curious about sequence ofpaper used etc. URL I found in a few places that should point to it comes back URL noton server etc. I triedwww.mv.com/ipusers/gunterman/SCARY.HTMAnybody found it recently? Hi Craig, John has changed ISPs. You can find his "Scary Sharp" information at: http://people.ne.mediaone.net/spokeshave/SCARY.HTM#original Later,Johnny----------------------------------------------Johnny JohnsonLilburn, GA from anglport@con2.com Thu May 13 06:14:39 1999 Subject: Re: Scary Sharp Location Craig,The good news is that I had TWO URLs for it. The bad news is, they'reBOTHdead!I could give you the basics as I use them but they may not be theactual proposed system. If no one has the method saved on their disk, I'llput together the way I do it and you'll have the basics.Actually it's justthat you begin with around 100 and work your way through all the commongrades of wet-or-dry 'til 2000! You'll have to get several of the finergrades from autobody supplies.)Good luck,Art At 12:37 AM 5/13/99 -0600, Craig Naldrett wrote:Have seen this mentioned in the Archives, curious about sequence ofpaper used etc. URL I found in a few places that should point to it comes back URL noton server etc. I triedwww.mv.com/ipusers/gunterman/SCARY.HTMAnybody found it recently?ThanksCraig from Anachemrpo@aol.com Thu May 13 08:27:21 1999 Subject: Wish to part with restored Heddon #17 As a result of spring cleaning I have decided to part with the three piece, 8.5 foot, 5wt, one tip Heddon #17, with bag and replacement tube. Iacquired it a couple of years ago as my first bamboo rod. I have since replaced it with a couple of other cane rods. Mid sections is 1/2 inch short, rod is professionally restored (when Ibought it from Dick Spurr) and is straight and very fishable. Contact off list if interested, Russ Lavigne from Canerods@aol.com Thu May 13 08:57:32 1999 Subject: Re: Are NS ferrules old technology? In a message dated 5/12/99 12:20:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, stetzer@csd.uwm.edu writes: Couldn't ferrules be re-engineered so that they would do theirjob (holding the rod together) without all the fussing to fitto the rod and to each other? I can go into the discount storeand for $25 ($45 Canadian) buy my kids a plastic spinning or fly rod, which they will use and abuse for years, on which the ferrules will NEVER stick, or get too loose, whether it's January or July. It just seems like its the year 2000 (almost) and we are using hundred-year old technology. Yes. A production automobile costs less than a hand-built custom car too.The production car is most likely more reliable too. Remember the old analogy of comparing apples and oranges? If you want to try a different ferrules design, I'd say try making a spigot ferrule. Maybe something like Winston uses on their IM-6 graphite rods. Maybe adda reinforcing "ring" of NS around the outside of the bamboo to prevent splintering of the cane from the flexing forces. It might even look good. But I think you are asking why use old technology! A second good example of different techologies competing would be flint-lock black-powder rifles (not the precussion cap semi-modern weapons) vsmodern cartridge rifles. Both use steel, both use wood stocks. (or good grief plastic) Yet only the modern equipment can be had for low-cost, its ammo can befound at your local K-Mart etc. Meanwhile, the old flintlock rifles are still being made by hand - go to Williamsburg, VA and try ordering a rifle from the gunsmith shop - yearsand years of backlog! Oh yes, black-powder rifles can be "tweeked" to have scopes and othermodern items, but really is old technology. Even with "smoke-less" powder a breech-loading rifle requires lots of maintainance. So why use black-powder rifles? It's not because they are inherently better than modern equipment, it's because with the proper care and precision of manufacturing that theywill get the job done and allows one to escape back into an earlier "age". It's because of it's old technology that they are still in use! If one just wants to go out and kill something - there's one hell'a lot easier way to go about that! So too can a bamboo rod can also be modernized - but what's the point?You're not using/making them to have state-of-the-art technology. IMHO, Don Burns PS - Besides, I've stuck graphite rods together so hard that I thought that I'd never get the ferrules apart! I've used WD-40, ice and two people hand-over- hand to pull graphite rods apart. And I've traveled home withone strapped to the roof of the car because I couldn't disassemble it, only to easily pull it apart the next morning. PPS - And ask my friend that took his brand-new graphite rod out fishingonly to have the damn thing break off at the butt section's ferrule area!! Somuch from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Thu May 13 09:49:03 1999 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id JAA00873 for (8.8.4/8.6.8) withSMTP id JAA11503 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 Subject: Re: Are NS ferrules old technology? IMHO, the NS ferrule is the glaring weak spot in the design of a cane rod. How many otherwise fine rods sit unused because offerrule problems? How many potential cane rod users never buy onebecause they've seen their partners struggle with stuck ferrules, or loose ferrules, or rods broken at the ferrule? We seem reluctant to step outside the envelope (is that the term?)on some of this stuff. We limit ourselves to components we canfabricate in our basements. Just from listening to this list forseveral years, it seems the European builders are much more willingto try "radical" approaches. You can make the case for cane as a rod building material on aesthetic grounds, on traditional grounds, and I believe on practical grounds too, that it is a good material to cast and fishwith. You can make the case for NS ferrules on aesthetic and traditional grounds also, but not (IMHO) on practical grounds.I'd like to see an engineer address the problem. I'd bet thesolution would not require the cane to be rounded and havetapered mating surfaces, perhaps of something besides nickel silver.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Thu, 13 May 1999 Canerods@aol.com wrote: So too can a bamboo rod can also be modernized - but what's the point?You're not using/making them to have state-of-the-art technology. IMHO, Don Burns from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Thu May 13 09:50:44 1999 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id JAA31585 for (8.8.4/8.6.8) withSMTP id JAA13725 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 Subject: Re: Are NS ferrules old technology? But you DO use ceramic stripper guides. Right Darryl?--Frank On Thu, 13 May 1999 SalarFly@aol.com wrote: A graphite ferrule introduces less of a flat spot in the flexing ofa cane rod, but it went against my sensibilities of what a cane rod should look like. If you try this yourself don't tell me about it! (shudder) Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Thu May 13 10:21:12 1999 Subject: Re: Are NS ferrules old technology? But you DO use ceramic stripper guides. Right Darryl? Not any more. I've been using agate strippers lately. I findthe guys that want a cane rod prefer agate strippers overceramic. Darryl from rmoon@ida.net Thu May 13 11:06:32 1999 0000 Subject: Re: Are NS ferrules old technology? Frank and everyone else on this n/s ferrule thing. I have seen a lot of efforts to apply "new technology". There havebeen rods with steel rods in the center. There have been rods wrapped from stem to stern with silk, There have been rods enclosed in wiremesh. There have been rods with interiors of graphite and rods withsteel reinforcement on the edges. None it seems to me have been worth a da**. The only viable one may have been the graphite reinforced rods,but even here it seems to be an inordinate waste of time and effort,with only a very minimal increase in efficiency. Then too there havebeen a hundred and one efforts to improve ferrules including screw lock, binding clips, dowels etc. Again the only significant advances seem tohave been the Leonard Patent of 1874 and the Super Z. I like theconventional N/S ferrule. It has an elegance of design, shape and color that is unmatched by any other type of material. Stainless steel,monel, aluminum, brass and bronze just don't look right. Besides thereare not all that many alloys that have the metallurgical characteristics that allow the fit of n/s. Sticky ferrules are simply due to improperfitting and improper care. I have seen 1890 rods that still fit assmoothly as any angler could ever want. Finally I am not so sure thatthe "flat spot" is all that much of an impediment. I admit that I likeone piece rods, but I like two and three piece rods just as well. Letsget back to doing things the traditional and proven way and give uptrying to gild the lily. JUST MY OWN OPINION AS A GROUCHY OLDCONSERVATIVE TRADITIONALIST. Bless you all from ccurrojr@mindspring.com Thu May 13 12:41:08 1999 Subject: Re: Are NS ferrules old technology? Dear GROUCHY OLD CONSERVATIVE TRADITIONALIST (Ralph Moon) " . . .N/S ferrule. It has an elegance of design, shape andcolor that is unmatched by any other type of material." Right on and well said. Happy old liberal troutbum,Charlie Curro from moran@lincoln.midcoast.com Thu May 13 14:00:02 1999 Subject: NS Ferrules boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0058_01BE9D50.E35E38A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01BE9D50.E35E38A0 Interesting discussion on ferrule alternatives. Has anyone had any =experience with cutting a bevel at the midpoint of the rod and using a =cord or (God fordid) duct tape to join the sections together? Sean =Moran ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01BE9D50.E35E38A0 Interesting discussion on ferrule = anyone had any experience with cutting a bevel at the midpoint of the = using a cord or (God fordid) duct tape to join the sections = Moran ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01BE9D50.E35E38A0-- from watson@cape-consult.co.uk Thu May 13 15:05:09 1999 Thu, 13 May 1999 21:04:37 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: NS Ferrules boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0036_01BE9D84.21F809A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BE9D84.21F809A0 I know Isaak did!!T-----Original Message-----From: Karen and Sean Moran Date: 13 May 1999 20:01Subject: NS Ferrules Interesting discussion on ferrule alternatives. Has anyone had any =experience with cutting a bevel at the midpoint of the rod and using a =cord or (God fordid) duct tape to join the sections together? Sean =Moran ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BE9D84.21F809A0 I know Isaak did!!T -----Original = Karen and Sean Moran <moran@lincoln.midcoast.com= rodmakers <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= 13 May 1999 20:01Subject: NS =FerrulesInteresting discussion on ferrule = anyone had any experience with cutting a bevel at the midpoint of = Moran ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BE9D84.21F809A0-- from rp43640@online-club.de Thu May 13 15:27:13 1999 Thu, 13 May 1999 22:26:38 +0200 (METDST) Subject: Re: Sv: Are NS ferrules old technology? An easy way to avoid sticking of ferrules is to use to differentmaterials as nickelsilver (female) and brass (male) or two differentalloys/hardnesses of nickelsilver 18% (female) and 12% (male). best regards Christian Carsten Jorgensen schrieb: -----Original Message-----From: Frank Stetzer This is just a minor rant, for what its worth... Couldn't ferrules be re-engineered so that they would do theirjob (holding the rod together) without all the fussing to fitto the rod and to each other? I can go into the discount storeand for $25 ($45 Canadian) buy my kids a plastic spinning orfly rod, which they will use and abuse for years, on which theferrules will NEVER stick, or get too loose, whether it's January orJuly. It just seems like its the year 2000 (almost) and we areusing hundred-year old technology. I'm no materials engineer, but I'd like to have one look atferrules and figure out something. It seems to my simple mindthat there are three obvious areas improvements: (1) Replacethe NS with some other material that wouldn't oxidize, at least onthe mating surfaces. (How many materials have been invented forsimilarapplications in the past 50 years? Probably hundreds.); (2) Taperthe mating surfaces so they would fit out of the box, and continue tofit after wear, and (3) make them fit hexagonal rods (OK make a few forpentas too). Thats it.......................................................................Frank Stetzer Frank You are not the only one, who has adressed this subject.In a Nordic flyfishing magazine I saw an article about anold swedish gentleman, an autodidact canerod maker.He simply fixed a female ferrule on the tipsection, leavingthe butt as it were, just rounded it, without a ferrule. Claimed he neverhad any failures!!!! Perhaps the tip of the butt could be re-inforced bydipping it in a very thin expoxy mixture? Any ideas abouta way to thin epoxy so much that it will penetrate cane? All You engineers, lets have Your opinions on this one. regards Carsten from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Thu May 13 15:27:24 1999 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id IAA29529; Fri, 14 May 1999 08:27:03 +1200 Subject: Re: NS Ferrules Sean , I thought this ( with cord) was the traditional method which wasovertaken Iank Ps I am sure I have read somewhere that there is a Scotish rodmaker stillproducing rods with this type of connection. At 02:57 PM 13/05/99 -0400, Karen and Sean Moran wrote:Interesting discussion on ferrule alternatives. Has anyone had anyexperience with cutting a bevel at the midpoint of the rod and using a cordor (God fordid) duct tape to join the sections together? Sean Moran from jczimny@dol.net Thu May 13 16:07:29 1999 -0400 "cmj@post11.tele.dk" Subject: RE: Sv: Are NS ferrules old technology? I would have grave doubts about relying on the relatively minordifferences between CNalloy 752 with , perhaps, 792 to keep the joints from growing together. Itwould have tobe a very high nickel content alloy such as monel to work. Incidentally,monel ought tobe a fine alloy for ferrules.John Z -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Sv: Are NS ferrules old technology? An easy way to avoid sticking of ferrules is to use to differentmaterials as nickelsilver (female) and brass (male) or two differentalloys/hardnesses of nickelsilver 18% (female) and 12% (male). best regards Christian Carsten Jorgensen schrieb: -----Original Message-----From: Frank Stetzer This is just a minor rant, for what its worth... Couldn't ferrules be re-engineered so that they would do theirjob (holding the rod together) without all the fussing to fitto the rod and to each other? I can go into the discount storeand for $25 ($45 Canadian) buy my kids a plastic spinning orfly rod, which they will use and abuse for years, on which theferrules will NEVER stick, or get too loose, whether it's January orJuly. It just seems like its the year 2000 (almost) and we areusing hundred-year old technology. I'm no materials engineer, but I'd like to have one look atferrules and figure out something. It seems to my simple mindthat there are three obvious areas improvements: (1) Replacethe NS with some other material that wouldn't oxidize, at least onthe mating surfaces. (How many materials have been invented forsimilarapplications in the past 50 years? Probably hundreds.); (2) Taperthe mating surfaces so they would fit out of the box, and continue tofit after wear, and (3) make them fit hexagonal rods (OK make a few forpentas too). Thats it. from HARMS1@prodigy.net Thu May 13 16:41:20 1999 Thu, 13 May 1999 17:41:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Are NS ferrules old technology? =_NextPart_000_01BE9D67.59339E60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE9D67.59339E60 all the time, trouble and expense of making a fine bamboo rod and then getall wrapped around the axle because one suspects the ferrules may be"obsolete" technology?It's ALL obsolete technology, for crying out loud! So what? A good Swiss-style ferrule is a beautiful little thing, and if it is lappedproperly, fitted properly and cared for properly (that is, as befits a finebamboo rod), it will give you no trouble. What's the problem here? Cheers, Bill ----------From: Canerods@aol.com Subject: Re: Are NS ferrules old technology?Date: Thursday, May 13, 1999 6:56 AM In a message dated 5/12/99 12:20:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, stetzer@csd.uwm.edu writes: Couldn't ferrules be re-engineered so that they would do theirjob (holding the rod together) without all the fussing to fitto the rod and to each other? I can go into the discount storeand for $25 ($45 Canadian) buy my kids a plastic spinning or fly rod, which they will use and abuse for years, on which the ferrules will NEVER stick, or get too loose, whether it's January or July. It just seems like its the year 2000 (almost) and we are using hundred-year old technology. Yes. A production automobile costs less than a hand-built custom cartoo.The production car is most likely more reliable too. Remember the old analogy of comparing apples and oranges? If you want to try a different ferrules design, I'd say try making aspigot ferrule. Maybe something like Winston uses on their IM-6 graphite rods. Maybeadda reinforcing "ring" of NS around the outside of the bamboo to prevent splintering of the cane from the flexing forces. It might even look good. But I think you are asking why use old technology! A second good example of different techologies competing would beflint-lock black-powder rifles (not the precussion cap semi-modern weapons) vsmodern cartridge rifles. Both use steel, both use wood stocks. (or good grief plastic) Yet only the modern equipment can be had for low-cost, its ammo can befound at your local K-Mart etc. Meanwhile, the old flintlock rifles are still being made by hand - go to Williamsburg, VA and try ordering a rifle from the gunsmith shop - yearsand years of backlog! Oh yes, black-powder rifles can be "tweeked" to have scopes and othermodern items, but really is old technology. Even with "smoke-less" powder a breech-loading rifle requires lots of maintainance. So why useblack- powder rifles? It's not because they are inherently better than modern equipment, it's because with the proper care and precision of manufacturing that theywill get the job done and allows one to escape back into an earlier "age". It's because of it's old technology that they are still in use! If one just wants to go out and kill something - there's one hell'a lot easier way to go about that! So too can a bamboo rod can also be modernized - but what's the point?You're not using/making them to have state-of-the-art technology. IMHO, Don Burns PS - Besides, I've stuck graphite rods together so hard that I thoughtthat I'd never get the ferrules apart! I've used WD-40, ice and two people hand-over- hand to pull graphite rods apart. And I've traveled home withone strapped to the roof of the car because I couldn't disassemble it, onlyto easily pull it apart the next morning. PPS - And ask my friend that took his brand-new graphite rod out fishingonly to have the damn thing break off at the butt section's ferrule area!! Somuch ------=_NextPart_000_01BE9D67.59339E60 =go to all the time, trouble and expense of making a fine bamboo rod and =then get all wrapped around the axle because one suspects the ferrules = good Swiss-style ferrule is a beautiful little thing, and if it is =lapped properly, fitted properly and cared for properly (that is, as = = = yes, black-powder rifles can be "tweeked" to have scopes and = can a bamboo rod can also be modernized - but what's the point? You're = modern ferrule design!!! ------=_NextPart_000_01BE9D67.59339E60-- from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu May 13 17:11:28 1999 via smap (4.1) 15:11:23 PDT Subject: Rod taper theories Besides casting ability, timing, line choice, wind, and some of theexternal factors, what part of a rods design might cause a loop that wants to come full circle. I've cast some rods that throw a nice flat loop whereby the tippet stays away from the fly line all the way to the end of the forward cast, and others which want to turn a circle for me, whereby the line slaps up against itself as it unwinds at the end in a little circle. Is this entirely a timing/casting issue or are there adjustments to a rods taper that might help to minimize this. Anyone with an opinion please respond. Thanks. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from tklein@amgen.com Thu May 13 17:16:11 1999 smtp.amgen.com via smap (3.2) Subject: RE: Are NS ferrules old technology? I couldn't agree more about the beauty and reliability of a good quality,properly finished NS ferrule! I was given a positively horrendous little rod that has too few guides overtoo thick varnish, a grip that smells like old sweatsocks, and casts likecrap! The ferrules, however, are a perfect snug fit that rewards me with asatisfying little pop every time I take the rod apart. As lousy as the rod is, it's the one to which I compare every other ferrule. Prior to discovering cane, every graphite rod I used required the ferrulesto be re-set several times throughout a fishing day lest I cast severalfeetof graphite along with my line, leader, and elk hair caddis. I no longerworry about that. I'll stick with the "obsolete" technology, thank you. (because nothing scares away fish like throwing a three and a half footstick in the middle of a beautiful little pond!)---Tim ----------From: WILLIAM A HARMS[SMTP:HARMS1@prodigy.net] Sent: Thursday, May 13, 1999 6:38 PM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Are NS ferrules old technology? all the time, trouble and expense of making a fine bamboo rod and thengetall wrapped around the axle because one suspects the ferrules may be"obsolete" technology?It's ALL obsolete technology, for crying out loud! So what? A good Swiss-style ferrule is a beautiful little thing, and if it islapped properly, fitted properly and cared for properly (that is, asbefits a fine bamboo rod), it will give you no trouble. What's theproblem here? Cheers, Bill ----------From: Canerods@aol.com Subject: Re: Are NS ferrules old technology?Date: Thursday, May 13, 1999 6:56 AM In a message dated 5/12/99 12:20:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, stetzer@csd.uwm.edu writes: Couldn't ferrules be re-engineered so that they would do theirjob (holding the rod together) without all the fussing to fitto the rod and to each other? I can go into the discount storeand for $25 ($45 Canadian) buy my kids a plastic spinning or fly rod, which they will use and abuse for years, on which the ferrules will NEVER stick, or get too loose, whether it's January or July. It just seems like its the year 2000 (almost) and we are using hundred-year old technology. Yes. A production automobile costs less than a hand-built custom cartoo. The production car is most likely more reliable too. Remember the old analogy of comparing apples and oranges? If you want to try a different ferrules design, I'd say try making aspigot ferrule. Maybe something like Winston uses on their IM-6 graphite rods. Maybeadda reinforcing "ring" of NS around the outside of the bamboo to prevent splintering of the cane from the flexing forces. It might even lookgood. But I think you are asking why use old technology! A second good example of different techologies competing would beflint-lock black-powder rifles (not the precussion cap semi-modern weapons) vsmodern cartridge rifles. Both use steel, both use wood stocks. (or good grief plastic) Yet only the modern equipment can be had for low-cost, its ammo canbefound at your local K-Mart etc. Meanwhile, the old flintlock rifles are still being made by hand - go to Williamsburg, VA and try ordering a rifle from the gunsmith shop -yearsand years of backlog! Oh yes, black-powder rifles can be "tweeked" to have scopes and othermodern items, but really is old technology. Even with "smoke-less" powder a breech-loading rifle requires lots of maintainance. So why useblack- powder rifles? It's not because they are inherently better than modern equipment, it's because with the proper care and precision of manufacturing that theywill get the job done and allows one to escape back into an earlier "age". It's because of it's old technology that they are still in use! If one just wants to go out and kill something - there's one hell'a lot easier way to go about that! So too can a bamboo rod can also be modernized - but what's the point?You're not using/making them to have state-of-the-art technology. IMHO, Don Burns PS - Besides, I've stuck graphite rods together so hard that I thoughtthat I'd never get the ferrules apart! I've used WD-40, ice and two people hand-over- hand to pull graphite rods apart. And I've traveled home withone strapped to the roof of the car because I couldn't disassemble it, onlyto easily pull it apart the next morning. PPS - And ask my friend that took his brand-new graphite rod outfishingonly to have the damn thing break off at the butt section's ferrule area!! Somuch from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu May 13 17:32:53 1999 Subject: Re: NS Ferrules rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 5/13/99 7:00:45 PM, moran@lincoln.midcoast.comwrote: Yes - I have tried it. Of course, I wouldn't use anything so crass as duct tape to join the splice, I use electrician's tape instead. The taped splice is not as convenient as a ferrule, and is out and out ugly to look at, but is functionally superior. No flat spot, and little additional weight. The rod casts like a one piece. I seriously doubt that you could successfullymarket the concept, however. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu May 13 19:37:34 1999 Subject: Re: NS Ferrules owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu What do we have Red Green building rods here, duct tape for crying outloud.Bret from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu May 13 21:17:47 1999 Fri, 14 May 1999 10:17:20 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: NS Ferrules There was an article in TPF about 18 months back with exactly this. Ithink it was from a French reader. The idea was to create a scarf jointwith hardwood bearing surfaces on both sections and bind with (I think)electrician's tape!At the time I thought it sounded a good idea because the action would beless affected but in the end I happily caught myself before going off on atangent re-inventing the wheel. NS ferrules look the part on bamboo rodsand they work great.Don has hit the nail right on the head with his flintlock comparisonalthough I can't see a flintlock being any use for anything apart from"going back" as it has no advantages in the field over smokeless powderrifles particualy if you happen to be left handed as I am where as bamboorods have just as valid a possition in fishing as plastic. Keep yer powder dry (and your eyes closed if left handed). Tony On Thu, 13 May 1999, Karen and Sean Moran wrote: Interesting discussion on ferrule alternatives. Has anyone had anyexperience withcutting a bevel at the midpoint of the rod and using a cord or (God fordid)duct tape tojoin the sections together? Sean Moran /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Thu May 13 22:34:26 1999 with ESMTP id +0000 Subject: Observation... A single-malt, a heat gun... I love the smell of cane cooking in theevening... It smells like... from SalarFly@aol.com Thu May 13 22:59:08 1999 Subject: Re: Rod taper theories I did a little experimentation on tip configurations andtheir effects on line loops. One result I posted aboutthe tight loop tip last year. A tip that is too wimpy compared to the rest of the rod, or one that has a long length (15 inches or longer) of high stress will produce a tailing loop. It is as if the tip lacks the last quick flick needed to accelerate the lineall the way down to the end. There was a Granger that I couldn't cast without a tailingloop no matter what I did. I mic'ed the taper, and the last20 inches at the tip had an unusually high stress curve.Made that way to protect the tippet when fighting a fishI suppose. It wasn't just my casting either. I handedthe rod to several good casters and they all cast atailing loop. A couple of the really good casters wereable to cast without a tailing loop after a little practice,but at first they all had a tailing loop. Had to have beenthe taper causing it. Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Thu May 13 23:18:04 1999 Subject: Re: Binding Over Masking Tape? Sorry about answering your question over the list, but my answering posthas been bouncing back. Your comment about binding over masking tape caught my eye. Are youusingEPON or does it make any difference? Are you wiping down with vinegarorother product to remove glue before setting aside? Are you pullingthreadoff after 16 or so hours? The glue I use is polyurethane glue. Lately I been using Elmer'sPro Bond because it is easy to get and it works as well as any other polyurethane glue I have tried. Lots of the chain lumberhardware stores carry it. I do wipe the blank down after binding,but just with a rag with no solvent on it. I use fishing monofilamentto bind for glue up. Don't use mono for heat treating if that's theway you heat treat. I take the mono off after letting it sit overnight. Darryl from plipton@wrtsun02.svidaho.net Fri May 14 00:59:57 1999 Subject: rod identity boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0040_01BE9D9C.B226D160" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0040_01BE9D9C.B226D160 Can you folks help me identify a rod that was brought to me? The label =that was on it has peeled off in most places. What is left is the first =letter, an "E", and the vague shape of a birds head on top of a =triangle. It sort of looks like a Hopi Thunderbird. The hardware looks =like chrome, not nickel silver. The handle is a bit odd because it is =reversible so the fly rod becomes a boat rod and there is an extra tip =with boar rod style guides. Thanks for the help, Phil PO Box 389,Sun Valley, ID 83353-0389208-726-9559, 208-622-8585 ------=_NextPart_000_0040_01BE9D9C.B226D160 Can you folks help me identify a rod that was = The label that was on it has peeled off in most places. What is left is = first letter, an "E", and the vague shape of a birds head on top of a = It sort of looks like a Hopi Thunderbird. The hardware looks like = nickel silver. The handle is a bit odd because it is reversible so the = guides. Thanks for the help, Phil 208-622-8585 ------=_NextPart_000_0040_01BE9D9C.B226D160-- from rcurry@ttlc.net Fri May 14 05:04:53 1999 (SMTPD32-5.01) id A56E16AC0090; Fri, 14 May 1999 06:05:34 EDT Subject: Re: Are NS ferrules old technology? Frank,I've never had a ferrule stuck that a good grip (rubber wrapped aroundcane)wouldn't free. But that is not an answer to your question. The advantagesof NS are many, a good dissertation on the subject of ferrule materials is found inMcLane'sNew Standard Fishing Encyclopedia (or was it his Wise Fisherman's?).NS ferrules as made in this country are "Vacuum Ferrules" this is partof thelogic of the fit. There is a very good practical reason for this. Otherbrasses,besides NS, might be used as well, but that is not, seemingly, your intent;you are asking for a new design to produce better results.Here is my suggestion, make your female ferrule from cane:Remove the pith in the butt section for two inches back from the tip endBind the cane well with thin wire (temporary) at the end of the pith.Saw the cane apart along glue lines for this 2".Place a piece of solid brass or aluminum rod in the splits as far down aspossibleBind the tips down over the brass with wireHeat cane in this area until soft and continue to force over brass rodAllow to coolRemove wire and bind at critical points with threadDip in varnish That's off the top of my head. It might work.Best regards,Reed from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri May 14 06:55:34 1999 Subject: Re: Rod taper theories RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 5/14/99 4:03:51 AM, SalarFly@aol.com wrote: Actually Darryl, I think you will find that a sufficiently weak section anywhere in the taper will lead to a tailing loop. A tailing loop is caused when the tip dips and follows an upwardly curved path during the power stroke, instead of following a straight line path. Most often a tailing loop is caused by a sudden application of wrist power at the beginning of the stroke, as opposed to an accelerating wrist motion that maxes out justbefore the stop. Any anomaly in the taper that causes the tip to dip excessivelyat the beginning of the casting stroke will mimic the effect of this casting fault and produce a tailing loop. I don't doubt what you say about the taper in question, but I have also run across rods with weak butts or middlesthat require an extremely light touch to avoid a tailing loop. from maxs@geocities.co.jp Fri May 14 06:58:19 1999 bysv01.geocities.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W) with ESMTP id UAA16929; Fri, 14May 1999 20:58:14+0900 (JST) mail.geocities.co.jp (1.3G-GeocitiesJ-3.1) with ESMTP id UAA07953; Fri,14 May 199920:58:12 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Are NS ferrules old technology? Reed and list, This is exactly what traditional Japanese roach rod is adopting. Aroundnative thin bamboo cane secitons are connected by themselves withoutusing ferrule. To avoid them slip off while casting,they usually have 2.5 to 3.9 inches (3.9 in. maximum) long connectionaccording to the diameter.The connection has a slightly tapered. Female sleeve has very thin wall and silk thread will enforce thatportion with coating of urushi varnish.Male slide is varnished by urushi either and fine sanded to fit tofemale. Thelonger the slide, the more difficult to slip off. Caution is when the rod gets wet sometimes itbecomes very hard to pull off the connection until it get dried. Some idea must be needed to protectmoisture gets in between male and female connection. It looks likethis;The picture at bottom is the connections. http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/ferrule/Image19.gif I am planning to make this connection on my next fly rod.When it is completed and successful, I will post it. Hoping it wouldnot be affected by the weight of the ferrules. But we miss the shine of ferrules. Max Reed Curry wrote: Here is my suggestion, make your female ferrule from cane:Remove the pith in the butt section for two inches back from the tip endBind the cane well with thin wire (temporary) at the end of the pith.Saw the cane apart along glue lines for this 2".Place a piece of solid brass or aluminum rod in the splits as far down aspossibleBind the tips down over the brass with wireHeat cane in this area until soft and continue to force over brass rodAllow to coolRemove wire and bind at critical points with threadDip in varnish That's off the top of my head. It might work.Best regards,Reed -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod from Ed.Estlow@co.hennepin.mn.us Fri May 14 08:29:09 1999 199913:27:26 UT 16-1998)) id86256771.0049CA38 ; Fri, 14 May 1999 08:25:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Are NS ferrules old technology? Boundary="0__=ifjbNHvvZNG5CnVq2w3r3mcOkBe5hzsq6eLrNHV9eLxjuyyp7HAL6n5t" --0__=ifjbNHvvZNG5CnVq2w3r3mcOkBe5hzsq6eLrNHV9eLxjuyyp7HAL6n5t I love it......... Sorry. couldn't resist. But Bill is severely correct. Start making glass orgraphite ferrules, extend it some more, do some things here and there, andwhatdo you end up with? Why........ a glass rod...... or a graphiterod............... or a boron rod.... Nothing wrong with any of that. I'm justpointing out the obvious - the pedigree of the modern synthetic fly rod. Best regards,-Ed Estlow "WILLIAM A HARMS" on 05/13/99 07:38:01 PM Please respond to HARMS1@prodigy.net rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu cc: Subject: Re: Are NS ferrules old technology? all the time, trouble and expense of making a fine bamboo rod and then getall wrapped around the axle because one suspects the ferrules may be"obsolete" technology?It's ALL obsolete technology, for crying out loud! So what? A good Swiss-style ferrule is a beautiful little thing, and if it is lappedproperly, fitted properly and cared for properly (that is, as befits a finebamboo rod), it will give you no trouble. What's the problem here? Cheers, Bill ----------From: Canerods@aol.com Subject: Re: Are NS ferrules old technology?Date: Thursday, May 13, 1999 6:56 AM In a message dated 5/12/99 12:20:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time,stetzer@csd.uwm.edu writes: Couldn't ferrules be re-engineered so that they would do theirjob (holding the rod together) without all the fussing to fitto the rod and to each other? I can go into the discount storeand for $25 ($45 Canadian) buy my kids a plastic spinning orfly rod, which they will use and abuse for years, on which theferrules will NEVER stick, or get too loose, whether it's January orJuly. It just seems like its the year 2000 (almost) and we areusing hundred-year old technology. Yes. A production automobile costs less than a hand-built custom cartoo.Theproduction car is most likely more reliable too. Remember the old analogy of comparing apples and oranges? If you want to try a different ferrules design, I'd say try making aspigotferrule. Maybe something like Winston uses on their IM-6 graphite rods. Maybeaddareinforcing "ring" of NS around the outside of the bamboo to preventsplintering of the cane from the flexing forces. It might even look good. But I think you are asking why use old technology! A second good example of different techologies competing would beflint- lockblack-powder rifles (not the precussion cap semi-modern weapons) vsmoderncartridge rifles. Both use steel, both use wood stocks. (or good grief plastic) Yet only the modern equipment can be had for low-cost, its ammo can befoundat your local K-Mart etc. Meanwhile, the old flintlock rifles are still being made by hand - go toWilliamsburg, VA and try ordering a rifle from the gunsmith shop - yearsandyears of backlog! Oh yes, black-powder rifles can be "tweeked" to have scopes and othermodernitems, but really is old technology. Even with "smoke-less" powder abreech-loading rifle requires lots of maintainance. So why useblack- powderrifles? It's not because they are inherently better than modern equipment, it'sbecause with the proper care and precision of manufacturing that theywillget the job done and allows one to escape back into an earlier "age". It's because of it's old technology that they are still in use! If one just wants to go out and kill something - there's one hell'a loteasier way to go about that! So too can a bamboo rod can also be modernized - but what's the point?You'renot using/making them to have state-of-the-art technology. IMHO, Don Burns PS - Besides, I've stuck graphite rods together so hard that I thoughtthatI'd never get the ferrules apart! I've used WD-40, ice and two peoplehand-over- hand to pull graphite rods apart. And I've traveled home withonestrapped to the roof of the car because I couldn't disassemble it, onlytoeasily pull it apart the next morning. PPS - And ask my friend that took his brand-new graphite rod out fishingonlyto have the damn thing break off at the butt section's ferrule area!! Somuch --0__=ifjbNHvvZNG5CnVq2w3r3mcOkBe5hzsq6eLrNHV9eLxjuyyp7HAL6n5t name="att1.htm" 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--0__=ifjbNHvvZNG5CnVq2w3r3mcOkBe5hzsq6eLrNHV9eLxjuyyp7HAL6n5t-- from sniderja@email.uc.edu Fri May 14 08:41:15 1999 Subject: Ferrules I agree, Cheers Bill has hit it on the head re the use of nickel silverferrules. If we ask him politely, he might tell us what he REALLY thinksabout ferrules! ;>)J. Snider. from gwbarnes@gwi.net Fri May 14 08:55:41 1999 Subject: Unknowns Does anyone have any leads on rods from two generations ago, one markedPfluger 2906, the other Silver Doctor? from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Fri May 14 08:59:21 1999 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id IAA17627 for (8.8.4/8.6.8) withSMTP id IAA25186 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 Subject: Poly glue To Darryl and the other people who've tried polyurethane glues...How do you like it? Any comparisons to other glues? Any problemsheat straightening etc. (shouldn't be). I use it for nodeless splices (see my stained fingers) but haven't tried it on the whole rod.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Fri May 14 09:37:27 1999 0400 Subject: RE: Are NS ferrules old technology? from one persepctive I agree...if you want to replicate the nostalgia,history,and realism of the past, nickel silver is the best choice. I have cast a fewantique rods and do love them for their history, even if they don't cast aswellor look as good as the newer bamboos from some of the people on this list.Butif what you are looking for is the best performance and reliability,perhapsthis discussion is not so lame. If I am making one for myself (and notstrictly different approach if it were better. After all, the old craftsmen didn'tjuststick with wood rods. Furthermore, isn't part of the idea that bamboo rods,forsome applications, just FEEL better because of bamboo's characteristics.Then ifthat can be improved upon by coming up with a ferrule that doesn't stick,isn'tprone to breakage, and is better at keeping the flex characteristics of therod(tranformation of energy in the cast), what's wrong with that? Whoknows, theremight even be a market for it. T&T or Scott (whichever has that glassferrule)apparently does. Andy -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Are NS ferrules old technology? all the time, trouble and expense of making a fine bamboo rod and then getall wrapped around the axle because one suspects the ferrules may be"obsolete" technology?It's ALL obsolete technology, for crying out loud! So what? A good Swiss-style ferrule is a beautiful little thing, and if it is lappedproperly, fitted properly and cared for properly (that is, as befits a finebamboo rod), it will give you no trouble. What's the problem here? Cheers, Bill ----------From: Canerods@aol.com Subject: Re: Are NS ferrules old technology?Date: Thursday, May 13, 1999 6:56 AM In a message dated 5/12/99 12:20:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, stetzer@csd.uwm.edu writes: Couldn't ferrules be re-engineered so that they would do theirjob (holding the rod together) without all the fussing to fitto the rod and to each other? I can go into the discount storeand for $25 ($45 Canadian) buy my kids a plastic spinning or fly rod, which they will use and abuse for years, on which the ferrules will NEVER stick, or get too loose, whether it's January or July. It just seems like its the year 2000 (almost) and we are using hundred-year old technology. Yes. A production automobile costs less than a hand-built custom cartoo.The production car is most likely more reliable too. Remember the old analogy of comparing apples and oranges? If you want to try a different ferrules design, I'd say try making aspigot ferrule. Maybe something like Winston uses on their IM-6 graphite rods. Maybeadda reinforcing "ring" of NS around the outside of the bamboo to prevent splintering of the cane from the flexing forces. It might even look good. But I think you are asking why use old technology! A second good example of different techologies competing would beflint-lock black-powder rifles (not the precussion cap semi-modern weapons) vsmodern cartridge rifles. Both use steel, both use wood stocks. (or good grief plastic) Yet only the modern equipment can be had for low-cost, its ammo can befound at your local K-Mart etc. Meanwhile, the old flintlock rifles are still being made by hand - go to Williamsburg, VA and try ordering a rifle from the gunsmith shop - yearsand years of backlog! Oh yes, black-powder rifles can be "tweeked" to have scopes and othermodern items, but really is old technology. Even with "smoke-less" powder a breech-loading rifle requires lots of maintainance. So why useblack- powder rifles? It's not because they are inherently better than modern equipment, it's because with the proper care and precision of manufacturing that theywill get the job done and allows one to escape back into an earlier "age". It's because of it's old technology that they are still in use! If one just wants to go out and kill something - there's one hell'a lot easier way to go about that! So too can a bamboo rod can also be modernized - but what's the point?You're not using/making them to have state-of-the-art technology. IMHO, Don Burns PS - Besides, I've stuck graphite rods together so hard that I thoughtthat I'd never get the ferrules apart! I've used WD-40, ice and two people hand-over- hand to pull graphite rods apart. And I've traveled home withone strapped to the roof of the car because I couldn't disassemble it, onlyto easily pull it apart the next morning. PPS - And ask my friend that took his brand-new graphite rod out fishingonly to have the damn thing break off at the butt section's ferrule area!! Somuch from SalarFly@aol.com Fri May 14 10:18:43 1999 Subject: Re: Poly glue To Darryl and the other people who've tried polyurethane glues...How do you like it? Any comparisons to other glues? Any problemsheat straightening etc. (shouldn't be). I use it for nodeless splices (see my stained fingers) but haven't tried it on the whole rod. No major problems with polyurethane glue except what you mention,it bonds really well to skin. Use latex gloves when you handle it. Ilike the long time it takes to tack up, plenty of time to straighten.The major advantage poly glue has over epon is the availibility.If epon was as readily available as poly I would use epon, butI can't get a reliable supply of it, and I've been going through a lotof glue lately. Darryl from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri May 14 14:26:18 1999 MAA16199 (5.5.2407.0) Subject: test from FlyfishT@aol.com Fri May 14 16:45:59 1999 Subject: Thanks Thanks for all those who responded to my question about the Leonardtaper. Tom Nigro from HARMS1@prodigy.net Fri May 14 17:06:57 1999 Fri, 14 May 1999 18:06:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Rod taper theories =_NextPart_000_01BE9E34.1AD669E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE9E34.1AD669E0 Chris, I have a theory, but it only comes from my experience and not from the(perhaps more reliable) science of plotting stress curves and such. Ibelieve that a rod's ability to hold the loop high and open (andparticularly the tippet) is a function ofthe taper in the last foot or so of the tip, all other things being equal (certainly a generous assumption). I would insist that the last foot,especially, requires what Vince Marinaro called a "convex taper." (Iwould also bet that if you "mic" a hundred different rods, you won't findmore than the barest handful that have it.) that taper toward the tip will describe a perfectly smooth, decreasingCURVE with no steps (or stages) in its trajectory. It does not matter ifone is building a nine-foot rod for an eight-weight line, or a six-footrod for a three- weight line. The principle remains the same. Upon casting, whatever power has been "stored" in the flexed rod isdelivered, progressively, toward the tip-tip -- which functions, finally,as a "moment of truth" in sending the line and its loop forward. Ibelieve that only the "convex taper," at this most critical final sectionof a rod, can transfer, uninterruptedly, the "message" that the rest of therod has sent to it. You can taper down to a 6/64" tip-top, or down to a3/64" tip-top, it doesn't matter, just as long as that last 10-12 inchesis perfectly convex in its profile. Many, many additional considerations apply to the other areas of a rod inobtaining the "feel" one may be after. But the last several inches areresponsible for the shape of the loop and its final effect upon the tippet,and HERE ONLY, one's "taste" ought to have nothing to do with the matter. I am probably the world's worst scientist, so only my trial-and- errormethods over the last two and a half decades have led me in this direction. Ok, guys, have at me! I'm naked out here, and twisting slowly in thewind. (Actually, I am very anxious to hear some other notions). Cheers, Bill ----------From: mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Subject: Rod taper theoriesDate: Thursday, May 13, 1999 2:57 PM Besides casting ability, timing, line choice, wind, and some of the external factors, what part of a rods design might cause a loop thatwants to come full circle. I've cast some rods that throw a nice flat loop whereby the tippet stays away from the fly line all the way to the end of the forward cast, and others which want to turn a circle for me, whereby the line slaps up against itself as it unwinds at the end in a little circle. Is this entirely a timing/casting issue or are there adjustments to a rods taper that might help to minimize this. Anyone with an opinion please respond. Thanks. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu ------=_NextPart_000_01BE9E34.1AD669E0 Chris,I have a =theory, but it only comes from my experience and not from the (perhaps = believe that a rod's ability to hold the loop high and open (and =particularly the tippet) is a function ofthe taper in the last foot = when plotted carefully in profile, the shape of that taper toward the =tip will describe a perfectly smooth, decreasing CURVE with no steps (or = = section of a rod, can transfer, uninterruptedly, the "message" = perfectly convex in its profile. Many, many additional =considerations apply to the other areas of a rod in obtaining the = responsible for the shape of the loop and its final effect upon the =tippet, and HERE ONLY, one's "taste" ought to have nothing to = only my trial-and-error methods over the last two and a half decades = (Actually, I am very anxious to hear some other notions).Cheers, = ------=_NextPart_000_01BE9E34.1AD669E0-- from chris@artistree.com Fri May 14 18:20:24 1999 Subject: Alcohol Lamps In case anyone's interested, I just got an Alcohol Lamp from Tuxedo Cane(209-948-6508). They're brand new (not antiques) but are built like thelamps of yesteryear. They're selling them for $10. Good looking lamp for$10.-- No commercial interest, Chris Wohlford from BThoman@neonsoft.com Fri May 14 18:54:23 1999 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Are NS ferrules old technology? Is that a single piece of bamboo or sections that have been rounded? Itlooks like a single piece of bamboo. Brian ThomanThe Chattahoochee River Rod CompanyParker, Coloradohttp://www.bambooflyrods.com(303) 805-5733 -----Original Message-----From: Max Satoh [SMTP:maxs@geocities.co.jp]Sent: Friday, May 14, 1999 5:59 AM Subject: Re: Are NS ferrules old technology? Reed and list, This is exactly what traditional Japanese roach rod is adopting. Aroundnative thin bamboo cane secitons are connected by themselves withoutusing ferrule. To avoid them slip off while casting,they usually have 2.5 to 3.9 inches (3.9 in. maximum) long connectionaccording to the diameter.The connection has a slightly tapered. Female sleeve has very thin wall and silk thread will enforce thatportion with coating of urushi varnish.Male slide is varnished by urushi either and fine sanded to fit tofemale. Thelonger the slide, the more difficult to slip off. Caution is when the rod gets wet sometimes itbecomes very hard to pull off the connection until it get dried. Some idea must be needed to protectmoisture gets in between male and female connection. It looks likethis;The picture at bottom is the connections. http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/ferrule/Image19.gif I am planning to make this connection on my next fly rod.When it is completed and successful, I will post it. Hoping it wouldnot be affected by the weight of the ferrules. But we miss the shine of ferrules. Max Reed Curry wrote: Here is my suggestion, make your female ferrule from cane:Remove the pith in the butt section for two inches back from the tipendBind the cane well with thin wire (temporary) at the end of the pith.Saw the cane apart along glue lines for this 2".Place a piece of solid brass or aluminum rod in the splits as far downas possibleBind the tips down over the brass with wireHeat cane in this area until soft and continue to force over brass rodAllow to coolRemove wire and bind at critical points with threadDip in varnish That's off the top of my head. It might work.Best regards,Reed -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod from maxs@geocities.co.jp Fri May 14 21:08:35 1999 bysv01.geocities.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W) with ESMTP id LAA01360; Sat, 15May 1999 11:08:25+0900 (JST) mail.geocities.co.jp (1.3G-GeocitiesJ-3.1) with ESMTP id LAA11933; Sat,15 May 199911:08:24 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Are NS ferrules old technology? Brian, Yes, it is made from so called arrow bamboo cane, not made by splitcane.Several kind of bamboo canes with different diameters are used to fit toeach other on diameter.Very low yield. Tip is made by rounding a split strip. Some fly rod makers are making a very light fly rod using thistechnique. Shape, structure arelike glass or graphite rod but with the action of bamboo. Max Thoman, Brian wrote: Is that a single piece of bamboo or sections that have been rounded? Itlooks like a single piece of bamboo. Brian ThomanThe Chattahoochee River Rod CompanyParker, Coloradohttp://www.bambooflyrods.com(303) 805-5733 -----Original Message-----From: Max Satoh [SMTP:maxs@geocities.co.jp]Sent: Friday, May 14, 1999 5:59 AM Subject: Re: Are NS ferrules old technology? Reed and list,This is exactly what traditional Japanese roach rod is adopting. Aroundnative thin bamboo cane secitons are connected by themselves withoutusing ferrule. To avoid them slip off while casting,they usually have 2.5 to 3.9 inches (3.9 in. maximum) long connectionaccording to the diameter.The connection has a slightly tapered. Female sleeve has very thin wall and silk thread will enforce thatportion with coating of urushi varnish.Male slide is varnished by urushi either and fine sanded to fit tofemale. Thelonger the slide, the moredifficult to slip off. Caution is when the rod gets wet sometimes itbecomes very hard to pull off theconnection until it get dried. Some idea must be needed to protectmoisture gets in between male and female connection. It looks likethis;The picture at bottom is the connections. http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/ferrule/Image19.gif I am planning to make this connection on my next fly rod.When it is completed and successful, I will post it. Hoping it wouldnot be affected by theweight of the ferrules. But we miss the shine of ferrules. Max Reed Curry wrote: Here is my suggestion, make your female ferrule from cane:Remove the pith in the butt section for two inches back from the tipendBind the cane well with thin wire (temporary) at the end of the pith.Saw the cane apart along glue lines for this 2".Place a piece of solid brass or aluminum rod in the splits as far downas possibleBind the tips down over the brass with wireHeat cane in this area until soft and continue to force over brass rodAllow to coolRemove wire and bind at critical points with threadDip in varnish That's off the top of my head. It might work.Best regards,Reed --Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod -- Max Satohan Oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Crafteremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod from thramer@presys.com Fri May 14 21:18:19 1999 0000 Subject: Tonka Queen Someone wanted the taper for a Tonka Queen so... 0 - .0745 - .09310 - .10615 - .12620 - .13825 - .15430 - .16635 - .17840 - .19045 - .20250 - .23455 - .24660 - .25865 - .27070 - .28275 - .29480 - .306 Guide spacing3.58.013.520.529.039.049.562.5 The rod cast pretty well , actually better than that,A.J. from BambooRods@aol.com Fri May 14 22:16:47 1999 Subject: Re: Are NS ferrules old technology? rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 5/13/99 5:42:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, HARMS1@prodigy.net writes: here here! from Craig.Naldrett@ibm.net Fri May 14 22:34:21 1999 (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA40862 for; Sat, 15 May 199903:34:16 GMT Subject: Stanley 12 Scraper Setup I know this is not the ideal tool but, picked this up at a garage sale afew weeks ago, have just cleaned it up & am setting it up. Sharpenedblade to 35 degrees (that's what it was when I got it). I gather fromArchives that top of iron should be canted forward around 3-5 degrees.Question is does bevel or flat of iron go forward, also does anyone knowof a holder/jig for sharpening (blade is 2 7/8" wide)& is 35 degrees asuitable angle.ThanksCraig from saltwein@swbell.net Sat May 15 06:35:13 1999 gw2.rcsntx.swbell.net GAA00431 Subject: Oven Hello All, I am ready to put my oven together this weekend (still need to gethigh temp wire, thought that would be an easier find) and I have a fewquestions? In calibrating the thermostat to determine settings I noticed in thearchives that some used candy thermometers. Were these just lain on thehardware cloth and checked after opening the door. I assume some of themmust show the last high temp. How many have put vent holes for steam (building Waynes' convectionoven) in their ovens? Would you do it again? Pros and Cons. Any input will be greatly appreciated. TIA. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sat May 15 09:52:19 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Sat, 15 May 1999 09:52:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Rod taper theories Bill,Interesting theory. Do you have measurements from one ofthese tips stuck away somewhere? I'd love to see what you mean by"convex". Harry from jjohnso4@bellsouth.net Sat May 15 10:24:05 1999 LAA19587 Subject: Re: Stanley 12 Scraper Setup At 09:30 PM 5/14/99 -0600, Craig wrote: I know this is not the ideal tool but, picked this up at a garage sale afew weeks ago, have just cleaned it up & am setting it up. Sharpenedblade to 35 degrees (that's what it was when I got it). I gather fromArchives that top of iron should be canted forward around 3-5 degrees.Question is does bevel or flat of iron go forward, also does anyone knowof a holder/jig for sharpening (blade is 2 7/8" wide)& is 35 degrees asuitable angle.ThanksCraig Hi Craig, http://www.mcs.net/~brendler/oldtools/scraping/scraper.htm Info on the #12 type of scraper will start in item #7, I believe. There'slots of good info there though so you might want to read the whole thing. Later,Johnny----------------------------------------------Johnny JohnsonLilburn, GA from DARRELLL@earthlink.net Sat May 15 13:35:16 1999 Subject: USLAN Rod Blank For Sale boundary="=PMail:=_0001@@VWlmbA68PthcUloA3Riv" --=PMail:=_0001@@VWlmbA68PthcUloA3Riv Hi All, Just thought the group here might be interested in an item I just listedon ebay today. It's an original, very rare (price just went up... 8>),USLAN 7' 2/1 rod blank. If you have any questions, please check out theauction or contact me off list and I will be happy to oblige. Below isthe URL for the item, in case you're interested... = http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D104571430 Happy Caning and Planing! Darrell Lee P.S. Oh mighty Listmeister, please do not boot me off for this crasscommer=cialannouncement... I only placed it for the greater good of our fellow isters= IMVHO --=PMail:=_0001@@VWlmbA68PthcUloA3Riv-- from rcurry@ttlc.net Sat May 15 14:25:02 1999 (SMTPD32-5.01) id AA3E2D7B009C; Sat, 15 May 1999 15:25:50 EDT Subject: Re: USLAN Rod Blank For Sale boundary="------------88323CE40D0B2F1A147478F4" --------------88323CE40D0B2F1A147478F4 Darrell,No to disparage your efforts, but rare is not a word I would apply toUslan rodblanks. When Uslan went out of business, they had quite a large inventoryofblanks; I've known one fellow that was offering them to me for $50.Another fellowre-bevelling the splits to make hex rods.THis is not to say that some decent rods might not be made from theblanks,just a note on their availability.Best regards,Reed Darrell Lee wrote: Hi All, Just thought the group here might be interested in an item I just listedon ebay today. It's an original, very rare (price just went up... 8>),USLAN 7' 2/1 rod blank. If you have any questions, please check out theauction or contact me off list and I will be happy to oblige. Below isthe URL for the item, in case you're interested...http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=104571430 Happy Caning and Planing! Darrell Lee P.S. Oh mighty Listmeister, please do not boot me off for this crasscommercialannouncement... I only placed it for the greater good of our fellow istersIMVHO --------------88323CE40D0B2F1A147478F4 Darrell, word I would apply to Uslan rod blanks. When Uslan went out of business,they had quite a large inventory of blanks; I've known one fellow thatwas offering them to me for $50. Another fellow re-bevelling the splitsto make hex rods. be made from the blanks, just a note on their availability.Best regards,ReedDarrell Lee wrote:Hi All,Just thought the group here might be interested in an item I just listedon ebay today. It's an original, very rare (price just went up... 8>), out theauction or contact me off list and I will be happy to oblige. Belowisthe URL for the item, in case you're interested... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=104571430Happy Caning and Planing!Darrell LeeP.S. Oh mighty Listmeister, please do not boot me off for this crasscommercial fellow istersIMVHO --------------88323CE40D0B2F1A147478F4-- from jaquin@netsync.net Sat May 15 16:34:23 1999 Subject: Re: Poly glue SalarFly@aol.com wrote: To Darryl and the other people who've tried polyurethane glues...How do you like it? Any comparisons to other glues? Any problemsheat straightening etc. (shouldn't be). I use it for nodeless splices (see my stained fingers) but haven'ttried it on the whole rod. No major problems with polyurethane glue except what you mention,it bonds really well to skin. Use latex gloves when you handle it. Ilike the long time it takes to tack up, plenty of time to straighten.The major advantage poly glue has over epon is the availibility.If epon was as readily available as poly I would use epon, butI can't get a reliable supply of it, and I've been going through a lotof glue lately. Darrylhi Darryl, Miller-Stephenson chemical Co. sells Epon by the gallon, butonly to established businesses. They have a web-site contact them, you never run out again. jerry from jaquin@netsync.net Sat May 15 16:50:46 1999 Subject: straightening fixture hi list, have more makers tried the rod straightening fixture, whichuses jacob's chuck to hold the rod blanks, and turn-buckles forstraightening/tensioning mentioned several week's ago on the list?tia jerry from jkallo@midwest.net Sat May 15 17:57:01 1999 Subject: Re: Poly glue List,I've had similar results. I've made 6 rods with the stuff and have only hadthe problem of wearing it on my hands for two weeks after the first rod(which resulted from my ignoring Daryll's suggestion that I use gloves).I've abused a couple of the rods including both extreem temps as well aswith fish way outside their intended quarry--no problems yet. The onlything I worry about is the life span of the glue. I guess we'll have tojust wait to find out about that. Joe At 11:16 AM 5/14/99 EDT, SalarFly@aol.com wrote: To Darryl and the other people who've tried polyurethane glues...How do you like it? Any comparisons to other glues? Any problemsheat straightening etc. (shouldn't be). I use it for nodeless splices (see my stained fingers) but haven't tried it on the whole rod. No major problems with polyurethane glue except what you mention,it bonds really well to skin. Use latex gloves when you handle it. Ilike the long time it takes to tack up, plenty of time to straighten.The major advantage poly glue has over epon is the availibility.If epon was as readily available as poly I would use epon, butI can't get a reliable supply of it, and I've been going through a lotof glue lately. Darryl Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from shimmerboo@hotmail.com Sat May 15 21:07:01 1999 Sat, 15 May 1999 19:07:49 PDT Subject: My Very First Bamboo Rod boundary="----=_NextPart_000_4d32ab05_6a47207c$7a9dbd74" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_4d32ab05_6a47207c$7a9dbd74 boundary="----=_NextPart_001_20649c6c_6a47207c$7a9dbd74" ------=_NextPart_001_20649c6c_6a47207c$7a9dbd74 To Terry, Chris, Dave, Russ, & Brian, I'm new to this list and would like to make my first cane rod where do I start.....Materials, Sources, Books, Equipment, and obviously my time......thanks much in advance for leading me down the path of self righteousness because I will be the "baddest bamboo rodman" in West Palm Beach, Fl. he, he Skeeter _______________________________________________________________Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------=_NextPart_001_20649c6c_6a47207c$7a9dbd74 To Terry, Chris, Dave, Russ, & Brian, I'm new to this list and would like to make my first cane rod where doIstart.....Materials, Sources, Books, Equipment, and obviously mytime......thanks muchin advance for leading me down the path of self righteousness because Iwill be the"baddest bamboo rodman" in West Palm Beach, Fl. he, he Skeeter Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit www.msn.com ------=_NextPart_001_20649c6c_6a47207c$7a9dbd74-- ------=_NextPart_000_4d32ab05_6a47207c$7a9dbd74 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 ------=_NextPart_000_4d32ab05_6a47207c$7a9dbd74-- from briansr@point-net.com Sun May 16 06:32:37 1999 0000 Subject: Mike Biondo Mike e-mail me ASAPCheers Brian from briansr@point-net.com Sun May 16 09:48:58 1999 0000 Subject: Arjon Anyone on the list familiar with Arjon rods from SwedenTIA Brian from SalarFly@aol.com Sun May 16 11:15:07 1999 Subject: Varnish Thickness Just a little info for the next time you mic a taper withthe varnish still on. I had an occasion to strip the varnish off of an oldjunker rod yesterday. I used the back of a hacksawblade to scrape the varnish off. Sometimes the varnishcame off in strips, so I measured them with my calipers.they were .002 inches thick. I would characterize thevarnish as moderately thick. Darryl from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun May 16 13:46:43 1999 Subject: Re: small rod tapers/Dennison reels rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu List,Does anyone remember the little Dennison reels that were for sale a fewyears back? I have one and would like to pick up another as I think this would be the perfect rod for it.Bret from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sun May 16 13:59:23 1999 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0200 Subject: Sv: Arjon -----Original Message----- Subject: Arjon Anyone on the list familiar with Arjon rods from SwedenTIA Brian If nobody else volunteers, I'll give it a try, Sweden beinga neighbouring country. Regards, Carsten from fiveside@net-gate.com Sun May 16 18:11:04 1999 ns1.net-gate.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA20804 for; Subject: Ferrules To the ListThe obvious answer for those troubled by ferrule problems (as am I) istheone piece rod. They fish better because there is no dead metal spot and thetaper does not have to be compromised by fitting to a particular ferrulesize, and that extra .25 ounces is just where you don't want it, andferrules are getting expensive, and they wear out, and are a nuisance tofit. Nodeless construction is perfect for one-piecers. Do I sound like an ad from anglport@con2.com Sun May 16 18:26:12 1999 Subject: Re: Ferrules Bill,You beat me to the punch with your last line! I was all set to mentionthat you could get one H--L of a lot of ferrules for the price of thatSuburban you drive!Let's see, if I build 20 rods a year, and they're all one-piece, and Isave $50 a set of ferrules (and all that cane that I wouldn't need for theextra tips!), I figure if I live another 25 years, I should recoup the costof the vehicle (if I can get ONE vehicle to run for 25 years).Take care,Art At 07:07 PM 5/16/99 -0400, Bill Fink wrote:To the ListThe obvious answer for those troubled by ferrule problems (as am I) istheone piece rod. They fish better because there is no dead metal spot andthetaper does not have to be compromised by fitting to a particular ferrulesize, and that extra .25 ounces is just where you don't want it, andferrules are getting expensive, and they wear out, and are a nuisance tofit. Nodeless construction is perfect for one-piecers. Do I sound like anad from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun May 16 19:46:18 1999 Subject: Re: small rod tapers/Dennison reels rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Bret,I have a Dennison reel that I use on my five footone weight. It does work great. I got mine last year. A friendpicked it up for me at some place up in the Adorondacks. It was $75.00 . I don't know if they are still available anywere? I'll keep my eyes open for you. Dave L. from rmoon@ida.net Sun May 16 20:17:46 1999 0000 Subject: Re:Dennison Bret and DavidYou might try Bob or Sue Dennisson at: Dennison Research220 SW TroyPortland, OR 97219 I have not seen them for about a uear, but they did have some reels atthe 1998 ISE Show at San Mateo. Ralph from cattanac@wmis.net Sun May 16 21:35:55 1999 mail4.wmis.net(8.8.8/SCO5) with SMTP id WAA29518 for ;Sun, 16 May 1999 Subject: Grayrock orders If you haven't found it yet - there is a Grayrock V hover button at my newwebsite - under that catagory there is agenda - blank yet - and orders - Ifanyone wants anything please let me know - GrayChat is running so checkitout as well - http://WCattanachRodCo.com Wayne from hiltonl@benzie.com Sun May 16 23:08:21 1999 (SMTPD32-4.07) id A6992D510076; Mon, 17 May 1999 00:10:01 EST Subject: Ferrules I get the warm fuzzies just thinking of the special relationship thatawaits me and airport security as I try to explain the three or four8-to9 foot, 4-inch diamater sealed pvc pipes marked special handlingthat I'm trying to have stuffed into the belly of a commercial jetliner. Yeee Haw! from chris@artistree.com Mon May 17 01:21:16 1999 Subject: Re: Ferrules Larry,Not a problem. Get a ski bag (or case) and put the tubes inside. I'vetransported my X-country skis between east and west coasts many timesthis way without a problem. Have even stuck a rod tube or two in withthe skis. I think the airlines are used to seeing ski equipment. -- Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com Larry Hilton wrote: I get the warm fuzzies just thinking of the special relationship thatawaits me and airport security as I try to explain the three or four8-to9 foot, 4-inch diamater sealed pvc pipes marked special handlingthat I'm trying to have stuffed into the belly of a commercial jetliner. Yeee Haw! from brookie@frii.com Mon May 17 08:18:06 1999 Subject: canes and reels At 08:44 PM 5/16/1999 EDT, you wrote:Bret,I have a Dennison reel that I use on my five footone weight. It does work great. I got mine last year. A friendpicked it up for me at some place up in the Adorondacks. It was $75.00 . I don't know if they are still available anywere? I'll keep my eyes open for you. Interesting, and maybe this thread would best be servedover on Wayne's new 'chat' area instead of here, but letme go for it anyway. Remember, I'm the one with the 'couple of canes', my favoritebeing a little 6'6" 3 wt. Put a little Hardy FLYWEIGHT onit, and in my opinion, it matches perfectly. Both in holdingthe line, and pleasing looks that "work" with the cane ! Let me try the question out then, cane builders/owners areoften enamored with not only the cane, but the hardware,wrappings, and I suppose the reel and line that will complimentthe cane. Curious if there IS a preferred cane reel out there ? Just to give you an example, I have a little ryall and a little rossthat don't 'fit' aesthetically with the cane. That's the only wayI can put it. But that little Hardy ? mmmm sweet ! even if she does make a tad bit o' noise *S* from brookie@frii.com Mon May 17 08:28:54 1999 Subject: PVC in whale's belly At 12:07 AM 5/17/1999 -0400, you wrote:I get the warm fuzzies just thinking of the special relationship thatawaits me and airport security as I try to explain the three or four8-to9 foot, 4-inch diamater sealed pvc pipes marked special handlingthat I'm trying to have stuffed into the belly of a commercial jetliner. Yeee Haw! I wouldn't exactly call them 'warm fuzzies' *S* .. I get paranoid whenI'm flygin anyway, and with rod cases, it's worse. Last trip to DC I had not only PVC pipe, but a rod case. Mind ya, the airlines have this size/weight limit now on the carry-ons, but there was NO WAYI was going to put the rods into the Belly ! no way ! So I hover around the boarding area, hanging back, ' hiding the rod cases ' bestI could, mumbling to the boarding person that I had this superstition about being last on the plane. My thinking, clear or not was they would be so anxious to getthe last few of us on a minute before the doors closed thatthey could care less what we took on. This proved true. No hassle from the ticket taker. The stews proved more difficult. On the outbound trip, no problem,snuck them right in, even after she said, " WHAT are those ? ""Flyfishing rods" I say. She asks me " where you planning to putthose ? " I say, " I hear the first class section still has a large closetand maybe you could put them there for me ? " No problem. Afrown or two, but done deal. Coming home to Colorado ? No way, no how. Not happy thesestews. but remember, the doors HAD closed and they werestuck with me and the flyfishing rods ! Ended up with them being put behind the last row of seats in the coach section. And me trotting back there to check to make sure they were stillthere. Nervous I was. But we made it. from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon May 17 08:43:19 1999 Subject: Re: canes and reels Overpriced, but I like the looks of the Orvis CFO (I, II) on my reallyshort rods. However, a fella last summer in Montana gave me a Hardy St.George (Jr.?) (the smallest model) and it certainly does the job on thetiny rods. Indeed, as soon as someone notices the St. George on one of theshort rods, they immediately cease fondling the rod and begin droolingoverthe reel!Speaking of short rods, I received the following response to the 5' 3/4 wttaper I posted recently. I just shipped this rod to a rancher in Montana(with the hopes that he will get me considerably more time on HoundCreeknext summer!)Hi Jerry Yesterday, my son John and I went up to Gordon's pond and tried out thenew rod. I caught 30 or 40 rainbows with it and it felt wonderful. I even letJohn try it out and he caught one too. The fish are only about 14 to 16 inches but you know how strong those Kamloops in Gordon's pond are. If itsurvived that day I think it will survive any day. The Missouri is running at about 6700 cfs, so the fishing has been just a little off on it. I did take the rod out one day a while ago and caught a couple of fish, one being around 18 inches. I will have to admit that I was scared to death it would break, but of course it didn't. J. Snider At 07:16 AM 5/17/99 -0600, Sue K. wrote:At 08:44 PM 5/16/1999 EDT, you wrote:Bret,I have a Dennison reel that I use on my five footone weight. It does work great. I got mine last year. A friendpicked it up for me at some place up in the Adorondacks. It was $75.00 . I don't know if they are still available anywere? I'll keep my eyes open for you. Interesting, and maybe this thread would best be servedover on Wayne's new 'chat' area instead of here, but letme go for it anyway. Remember, I'm the one with the 'couple of canes', my favoritebeing a little 6'6" 3 wt. Put a little Hardy FLYWEIGHT onit, and in my opinion, it matches perfectly. Both in holdingthe line, and pleasing looks that "work" with the cane ! Let me try the question out then, cane builders/owners areoften enamored with not only the cane, but the hardware,wrappings, and I suppose the reel and line that will complimentthe cane. Curious if there IS a preferred cane reel out there ? Just to give you an example, I have a little ryall and a little rossthat don't 'fit' aesthetically with the cane. That's the only wayI can put it. But that little Hardy ? mmmm sweet ! even if she does make a tad bit o' noise *S* from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon May 17 08:55:45 1999 Subject: Re: PVC in whale's belly several rods in a PVC pipe, allowing them to be handled as luggage in thehold. I always carry two 3-pc or 4 pc rods "in hand" as backups. (You caneasily get two rods in a case for carrying on board.) Knowing that (a fewunscrupulous) luggage handlers are well aware of expensive rods and gunsbeing shipped to Alaska, and since I am involved in a research projectsurveying for Arctic Grayling, I simply mark on the outside of the PVCpipe"surveying equipment" which, indeed, it is. In fact, I stick duct tape invarious places on the PVC pipe, with indecipherable notations on them,wipea little dirt on the pipe, etc., to make it look authentic (learned this from a forestry surveyor who travels a lot). Has worked quite well so far.The Sir Darryl Special (3 pc) is always hand carried, however. Of course,since I travel up to the oil fields in Prudhoe Bay, perhaps the case looksa tad more authentic than if I were traveling to Colorado or Montana, orperhaps New Zealand or Patagonia?J. Snider At 07:27 AM 5/17/99 -0600, Sue K. wrote: At 12:07 AM 5/17/1999 -0400, you wrote:I get the warm fuzzies just thinking of the special relationship thatawaits me and airport security as I try to explain the three or four8-to9 foot, 4-inch diamater sealed pvc pipes marked special handlingthat I'm trying to have stuffed into the belly of a commercial jetliner. Yeee Haw! I wouldn't exactly call them 'warm fuzzies' *S* .. I get paranoid whenI'm flygin anyway, and with rod cases, it's worse. Last trip to DC I had not only PVC pipe, but a rod case. Mind ya, the airlines have this size/weight limit now on the carry-ons, but there was NO WAYI was going to put the rods into the Belly ! no way ! So I hover around the boarding area, hanging back, ' hiding the rod cases ' bestI could, mumbling to the boarding person that I had this superstition about being last on the plane. My thinking, clear or not was they would be so anxious to getthe last few of us on a minute before the doors closed thatthey could care less what we took on. This proved true. No hassle from the ticket taker. The stews proved more difficult. On the outbound trip, no problem,snuck them right in, even after she said, " WHAT are those ? ""Flyfishing rods" I say. She asks me " where you planning to putthose ? " I say, " I hear the first class section still has a large closetand maybe you could put them there for me ? " No problem. Afrown or two, but done deal. Coming home to Colorado ? No way, no how. Not happy thesestews. but remember, the doors HAD closed and they werestuck with me and the flyfishing rods ! Ended up with them being put behind the last row of seats in the coach section. And me trotting back there to check to make sure they were stillthere. Nervous I was. But we made it. from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Mon May 17 08:59:46 1999 Mon, 17 May 1999 08:59:47 -0500 R8.30.00.7) Subject: Re[2]: Rod taper theories --simple boundary Bill,I am assuming you are talking about plotting the diameter of the rod and not the stress curve. Can you note where Vince M. wrote this so I can look at his ideas in more detail (was this in Ring of the Rise?; I should re-read RotR)? Also, even with the convex taper at the tip you mention, it seems as if there remains a potential for infinite differences in the aggregate slope of this section (ie. how much does the curve decrease in this last foot?) which would affect the action, I suspect. An example of this idea in hard numbers would be enlightening if you could post one.Warm regards,Jon McAnulty ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Author: Chris,I have a theory, but it only comes from myexperience and not from the (perhaps more reliable) science of plotting stress curves and believe that a rod's ability to hold the loop high and open (and particularlythetippet) is a function ofthe taper in the last foot or so of the tip, allother insist that "convex different rods, you won't find more than the barest handful that haveit.)By the shape ofthat taper toward the tip will describe a perfectly smooth, decreasingCURVE with no !t matter if one is building a nine-foot rod for an eight-weight line, same. flexed rod is delivered, progressively, toward the tip-tip -- whichfunctions, finally, section of a rod, can transfer, uninterruptedly, the "message"that the rest as that last10-12 inches is perfectly convex in its profile. Many, manyadditionalconsiderations apply to the other areas of a rod in obtaining the"feel" one !ible for the shape of the loop and its final effect upon the tippet, and HEREONLY,one's "taste" ought to have nothing to do with the matter. the world's worst scientist, so only my trial-and-error methods over thelast two and a me! (Actually, I am very external factors, full circle. ! stays away others which itself as it timing/casting minimize --simple boundary-- from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon May 17 09:02:52 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Mon, 17 May 1999 09:02:42 -0500 Subject: Re: canes and reels Sue,I may be a loner, but I like the older model Ross Reels. I have aRoss R-1, with a coupla extra spools. It seems to "look right". I alsolike the fact that there are few moving parts to break down, and NOsound.Then on the other hand, when I can make them fit the reel seats, Ilike Pflueger Medalists too.Harry Sue K. wrote: At 08:44 PM 5/16/1999 EDT, you wrote:Bret,I have a Dennison reel that I use on my five footone weight. It does work great. I got mine last year. A friendpicked it up for me at some place up in the Adorondacks.It was $75.00 . I don't know if they are still available anywere? I'll keep my eyes open for you. Interesting, and maybe this thread would best be servedover on Wayne's new 'chat' area instead of here, but letme go for it anyway. Remember, I'm the one with the 'couple of canes', my favoritebeing a little 6'6" 3 wt. Put a little Hardy FLYWEIGHT onit, and in my opinion, it matches perfectly. Both in holdingthe line, and pleasing looks that "work" with the cane ! Let me try the question out then, cane builders/owners areoften enamored with not only the cane, but the hardware,wrappings, and I suppose the reel and line that will complimentthe cane. Curious if there IS a preferred cane reel out there ? Just to give you an example, I have a little ryall and a little rossthat don't 'fit' aesthetically with the cane. That's the only wayI can put it. But that little Hardy ? mmmm sweet ! even ifshe does make a tad bit o' noise *S* from dmanders@telusplanet.net Mon May 17 09:43:27 1999 don") bysmtp2.telusplanet.net with SMTP id ; Mon, 17 May 199908:42:59 - 0600 Subject: Re: canes and reels Sue, I have a bunch of Hardy's and 1 Marryat - the Marryat is the one most used.Looks it too. Got near a 1000 trips on it. Been fallenon/dropped/backpacked. Spooled been bent more times than I can count.Still, I like the looks of it - got the Bronze color. Still works great.Have worn out a couple of Hardy's - the gears seem to be soft. Still, thereis probably nothing on a creek that sounds better than the Hardy spinningbackward for 20>30 yds. Don At 07:16 AM 5/17/99 -0600, Sue K. wrote:At 08:44 PM 5/16/1999 EDT, you wrote:Bret,I have a Dennison reel that I use on my five footone weight. It does work great. I got mine last year. A friendpicked it up for me at some place up in the Adorondacks. It was $75.00 . I don't know if they are still available anywere? I'll keep my eyes open for you. Interesting, and maybe this thread would best be servedover on Wayne's new 'chat' area instead of here, but letme go for it anyway. Remember, I'm the one with the 'couple of canes', my favoritebeing a little 6'6" 3 wt. Put a little Hardy FLYWEIGHT onit, and in my opinion, it matches perfectly. Both in holdingthe line, and pleasing looks that "work" with the cane ! Let me try the question out then, cane builders/owners areoften enamored with not only the cane, but the hardware,wrappings, and I suppose the reel and line that will complimentthe cane. Curious if there IS a preferred cane reel out there ? Just to give you an example, I have a little ryall and a little rossthat don't 'fit' aesthetically with the cane. That's the only wayI can put it. But that little Hardy ? mmmm sweet ! even if she does make a tad bit o' noise *S* from briansr@point-net.com Mon May 17 09:45:55 1999 0000 Subject: Re: rods + reels SueThere's nothing like the "rattle" of a 4" Perfect or St John as you letline out,and then that DZZZZZZ- Scream that they make when a Salmon makesthatfirst run !!! Everyone within a mile knows you have a fish on!!!!Cheers Brian from dmanders@telusplanet.net Mon May 17 09:47:20 1999 don") bysmtp2.telusplanet.net with SMTP id ; Mon, 17 May 199908:47:08 - 0600 08:55:09 -0600 Subject: Re: Rod taper theories Bill, That's been my experience too. The rate of change from station to stationvaries from 0.013"/5 ' of travel to about 0.020"/5' of travel from 10>20" from the tip. You seem to get good turnovers then without pushing therod. Don At 06:03 PM 5/14/99 -0700, WILLIAM A HARMS wrote: Book AntiquaChris, I have a theory, but it only comes from my experience and not from the(perhaps more reliable) science of plotting stress curves and such. Ibelieve that a rod's ability to hold the loop high and open (andparticularly the tippet) is a function of the taper in the last foot or so of the tip, all other things being equal(certainly a generous assumption). I would insist that the last foot,especially, requires what Vince Marinaro called a "convex taper." (Iwould also bet that if you "mic" a hundred different rods, you won'tfind more than the barest handful that have it.) of that taper toward the tip will describe a perfectly smooth, decreasingCURVE with no steps (or stages) in its trajectory. It does not matter ifone is building a nine-foot rod for an eight-weight line, or a six- footrod for a three-weight line. The principle remains the same. Upon casting, whatever power has been "stored" in the flexed rod isdelivered, progressively, toward the tip-tip -- which functions, finally,as a "moment of truth" in sending the line and its loop forward. Ibelieve that only the "convex taper," at this most critical finalsection of a rod, can transfer, uninterruptedly, the "message" that therest of the rod has sent to it. You can taper down to a 6/64" tip-top,or down to a 3/64" tip-top, it doesn't matter, just as long as thatlast 10-12 inches is perfectly convex in its profile. Many, many additional considerations apply to the other areas of a rod inobtaining the "feel" one may be after. But the last several inches areresponsible for the shape of the loop and its final effect upon thetippet, and HERE ONLY, one's "taste" ought to have nothing to do with thematter. I am probably the world's worst scientist, so only mytrial-and-error methods over the last two and a half decades have led mein this direction. Ok, guys, have at me! I'm naked out here, and twisting slowly in thewind. (Actually, I am very anxious to hear some other notions). Cheers, Bill 0000,8080,8080---------- From:ffff,8080,c0c0mcdowellc@lanecc.edu ffff,8080,c0c0RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu 0000,8080,8080> Subject:Rodtaper theories Date: Thursday, May 13, 1999 2:57 PM Besides casting ability, timing, line choice, wind, and some of the external factors, what part of a rods design might cause a loop thatwants to come full circle. I've cast some rods that throw a nice flat loop whereby the tippet stays away from the fly line all the way to the endof the forward cast, and others which want to turn a circle for me,whereby the line slaps up against itself as it unwinds at the end in a little circle. Is this entirely a timing/casting issue or are thereadjustments to a rods taper that might help to minimize this. Anyone with anopinion please respond. Thanks. Chris ffff,8080,c0c0mcdowellc@lanecc.edu0000,8080,8080 from tklein@amgen.com Mon May 17 10:02:44 1999 smtp.amgen.com via smap (3.2) Subject: RE: canes and reels I was hoping somebody would mention reels, because I just lucked into afantastic deal a couple of days ago and couldn't think of a tactful way tobrag a little. I've been using a Ross Gunnison on my cane rods for the last couple ofyears. I love the thing, but it just doesn't seem to look quite right oncane so I've been dreaming about Peerless and Bill Ballan reels.Fortunately, I live and work just down the street from Mike Clark and hecarries Peerless, but I hadn't had any luck finding a Ballan reel to lookover. I went to a local flyshop the other day that I hadn't visited in a while.The place used to be owned by a split cane rodmaker (he's a listmember),andhe used to carry Ballan because they just naturally go with cane rods. Theguys he sold the shop to sell only plastic so I didn't have much faith thatthey'd still carry them. It turned out I was right, however they still had a couple of Ballan reelsleft from stock they purchased from the old owner. When I asked to take alook at them, the owner said he'd cut the price in half if I'd take one offhis hands. Seems he's been using them as raffle items because hisclientelehas shown no interest at all. If I'd had a better poker face I probablycould have talked him down a little, but I was salivating too much to getthe words out. If nothing else, I'm a darn helpful guy. I took pity on the poor shop ownerand took the last two off his hands! Long answer to your short question...Bill Ballan reels look great on canerods! (One of the reels is very small and won't hold more than a two or threeweight line. All I have are 4 and 5 weight rods, so it looks like I boughtmyself an excuse for a new lightline rod in the process!)---Tim ----------From: Sue K.[SMTP:brookie@frii.com] Sent: Monday, May 17, 1999 7:16 AM Subject: canes and reels At 08:44 PM 5/16/1999 EDT, you wrote:Bret,I have a Dennison reel that I use on my five footone weight. It does work great. I got mine last year. A friendpicked it up for me at some place up in the Adorondacks. It was $75.00 . I don't know if they are still available anywere? I'll keep my eyes open for you. Interesting, and maybe this thread would best be servedover on Wayne's new 'chat' area instead of here, but letme go for it anyway. Remember, I'm the one with the 'couple of canes', my favoritebeing a little 6'6" 3 wt. Put a little Hardy FLYWEIGHT onit, and in my opinion, it matches perfectly. Both in holdingthe line, and pleasing looks that "work" with the cane ! Let me try the question out then, cane builders/owners areoften enamored with not only the cane, but the hardware,wrappings, and I suppose the reel and line that will complimentthe cane. Curious if there IS a preferred cane reel out there ? Just to give you an example, I have a little ryall and a little rossthat don't 'fit' aesthetically with the cane. That's the only wayI can put it. But that little Hardy ? mmmm sweet ! even if she does make a tad bit o' noise *S* from tklein@amgen.com Mon May 17 10:20:09 1999 smtp.amgen.com via smap (3.2) Subject: Heat gun I just blew out my second Wagner and am in need of a new heat gun. I'veheard good things about Black & Decker, but haven't been able to locate ororder one locally. Does anyone know of a website or catalog where I canpurchase one? Any good experiences with other brands? I've always had good luck withSearsCraftsman tools, but I'd need a solid reference before I'd feel good aboutdropping the $99.00 they're asking for theirs. ---Tim from SalarFly@aol.com Mon May 17 10:57:04 1999 Subject: Re: Heat gun Any good experiences with other brands? I've always had good luck withSearsCraftsman tools, but I'd need a solid reference before I'd feel good aboutdropping the $99.00 they're asking for theirs. I've been using the heat gun I bought from Sears for 4 years now, and ithasheld up well. I haven't looked lately, but when I bought mine it was reallya Steinel. You know how Sears buys other brands and puts the Searsname on it. Get the optional wide spreader nozzle, and if it makes you feelany better you can get an extended warranty, but mine has lasted so longit would have been a waste of money. Darryl from HALLOWELLMA@atgl.spear.navy.mil Mon May 17 11:04:51 1999 (5.5.2232.9) "\"RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu\" ","\"Joseph S.Kallo\" " Subject: RE: Poly glue Which Glues are you using? Mark Hallowell List,I've had similar results. I've made 6 rods with the stuff and have only had the problem of wearing it on my hands for two weeks after the first rod (which resulted from my ignoring Daryll's suggestion that I use gloves). I've abused a couple of the rods including both extreem temps as well as with fish way outside their intended quarry--no problems yet. The only thing I worry about is the life span of the glue. I guess we'll have to just wait to find out about that. Joe At 11:16 AM 5/14/99 EDT, SalarFly@aol.com wrote: To Darryl and the other people who've tried polyurethane glues... How do you like it? Any comparisons to other glues? Any problems heat straightening etc. (shouldn't be). I use it for nodeless splices (see my stained fingers) but haven't tried it on the whole rod. No major problems with polyurethane glue except what you mention, it bonds really well to skin. Use latex gloves when you handle it. Ilike the long time it takes to tack up, plenty of time to straighten. The major advantage poly glue has over epon is the availibility.If epon was as readily available as poly I would use epon, butI can't get a reliable supply of it, and I've been going through a lot of glue lately. Darryl Joseph S. KalloDpt. of PhilosophySouthern Illinois University at Carbondale from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon May 17 11:19:29 1999 Subject: Re: Heat gun I have used the Sears model (Steinel) for a little over two years. I reallylike it, and have had no problems with it at all.J. SniderAt 11:54 AM 5/17/99 - 0400, SalarFly@aol.com wrote: Any good experiences with other brands? I've always had good luck withSearsCraftsman tools, but I'd need a solid reference before I'd feel goodaboutdropping the $99.00 they're asking for theirs. I've been using the heat gun I bought from Sears for 4 years now, and ithasheld up well. I haven't looked lately, but when I bought mine it was reallya Steinel. You know how Sears buys other brands and puts the Searsname on it. Get the optional wide spreader nozzle, and if it makes youfeelany better you can get an extended warranty, but mine has lasted so longit would have been a waste of money. Darryl from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon May 17 13:31:13 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Mon, 17 May 1999 13:30:53 -0500 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: canes and reels Tim,Got a better idea for you. Since you got the little Ballan at half price,nad you don't have a rod that it fits well, and I seem to be specializing in2weights lately, just forward it to me. I'll see your 1/2 price, and raiseyou$5. Harry Boyd from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon May 17 13:47:02 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0500 Subject: Internet Ethics Friends,Seems everywhere I turn these days I'm in some sort of ethicsdiscusssion. Perhaps that's the nature of my profession. In thelast few days, several of you have forwarded concerns about onething or another to me. I greatly and humbly appreciate theconfidence in me that shows. Though I probably express my opiniona little too often through this forum, I have no official capacitywith the list. There are a few helpful list commands we allshould know. All administrative requests (Unsubscribing, Re-subscribing,Temporarily LISTPROC@mail.wustl.edu Following are a few commands of particular interest... The command is typed in the body of the mail message, and theSubject line left blank. To request the HELP file: HELP To receive one message per day, containing ALL messages for thatday:SET RODMAKERS MAIL DIGEST To temporarily stop RODMAKERS mail: SET RODMAKERS MAIL POSTPONE To resume delivery of RODMAKERS mail: SET RODMAKERS MAIL ACK (Theabove two commands are particularly useful to prevent your mailbox from overflowing if you are away from email for an extended periodof time.) If there is anything you do not understand, please do not hesitatetocontact one of the list maintainers, who are: Mike Biondo Jerry Ballard All this is information you received in your initialsubscription to this list, but sometimes it bears repeating..... Thanks,Harry from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon May 17 13:54:19 1999 11:55:58 PDT Subject: Re: canes and reels I prefer the classic style reels like Peerless and Bill Ballan. Another nice looking reel that's priced under the Ballans is the W.E. Adams reels. They are available in the Tiny Trout, and the Purist, and I think there is a larger Steelhead version. They have an knob adjustable drag and a removable spool yet retain the general design and look of the classic style. Perforated black sideplates and silver rims with an "S" handle. They definitely look at home on bamboo rods. I'll have to wait to comment on the performance of the Adams reels. Usually my reel is merely a device to hold line. Smaller trout and creeks with no room for the fish to run. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from fiveside@net-gate.com Mon May 17 19:06:08 1999 ns1.net-gate.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA15953 for; Subject: Vans and Suburbans To the ListA bit off the subject but please bear with me in defense of vehiclescapable of transporting one piecers. First of all, 7-footers- plus fit inmost any vehicle, but admittedly with some inconvenience. But besidestransporting one piecers, when you transport large hunting-size labs,sleepin your vehicle now and then, cut a few cords of wood (for Y2K don't youknow) and transport a carpool of makers and their considerable baggage toaGathering, there's a lot to be said for big. Besides, no one has challenged the statement that one piecers fishbetter.Isn't this what it's really all about? And how about Chris Wohlford's statement about transporting long rodsinski bags. Doesn't that take some of the sting out of air travel? In thesummer??Having said all this, I still keep a few 2-piecers handy for the verywelcome times when I am invited to carpool with others - in little cars. Bill from cbogart@shentel.net Mon May 17 19:06:25 1999 mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net(InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP Tue, 18 May 1999 00:05:53 +0000 "tklein@amgen.com" Subject: Re: Heat gun Tim If you have burned out two Wagners (I learned my lesson afterthe first one blew) skip the Black & Decker and go straight for a Steinel(AKABosch and Sears Professional) You will be happy. Chris On Mon, 17 May 1999 08:19:29 -0700, Klein, Tim wrote: I just blew out my second Wagner and am in need of a new heat gun. I'veheard good things about Black & Decker, but haven't been able to locate ororder one locally. Does anyone know of a website or catalog where I canpurchase one? Any good experiences with other brands? I've always had good luck withSearsCraftsman tools, but I'd need a solid reference before I'd feel good aboutdropping the $99.00 they're asking for theirs. ---Tim from cbogart@shentel.net Mon May 17 19:19:56 1999 mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net(InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP Tue, 18 May 1999 00:19:24 +0000 "cattanac@wmis.net" Subject: Re: Grayrock orders Wayne / et al. In case people have problems with the below URL - try: http://www.wcattanachrodco.com/ Chris Your URL is not working from my end - is iOn Sun, 16 May 1999 22:38:47 -0400, Wayne Cattanach wrote: If you haven't found it yet - there is a Grayrock V hover button at my newwebsite - under that catagory there is agenda - blank yet - and orders - Ifanyone wants anything please let me know - GrayChat is running so checkitout as well - http://WCattanachRodCo.com Wayne from rcurry@ttlc.net Mon May 17 20:00:35 1999 (SMTPD32-5.01) id ABD7171010E; Mon, 17 May 1999 21:01:11 EDT Subject: Re: canes and reels I go for the true classic look - Pflueger Medalist. The harsh grating soundisreminescent of my son's first attempt at a manual transmission...ahhh.I also use Pflueger Progress, and the elegant Delite.On quiet days I use a Johnson Magnetic, it looks hideous on the cane rod.Best regards,Reed from dericco@banet.net Mon May 17 20:33:14 1999 out5.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA119116; Tue, 18 May 199901:33:09 GMT Subject: Re: Vans and Suburbans To All,In regards to transporting those one piece rods. The fellas at the localutilitycompany may be able to teach us a thing or two. Get a really long piece ofPVC andthe appropriate size end caps & screw covers, two U-bolts to clamp thewhole thingto your roof rack & your on your way. They use this set up to transportlong lengthsof copper pipe. It works well on my little subaru wagon (you can evenpaint it tomatch your car). Really helps me keep my rods away from those nastydoors & windows& comes off easily when I'm not using it. See ya Roger Bill Fink wrote: To the ListA bit off the subject but please bear with me in defense of vehiclescapable of transporting one piecers. First of all, 7-footers- plus fit inmost any vehicle, but admittedly with some inconvenience. But besidestransporting one piecers, when you transport large hunting-size labs,sleepin your vehicle now and then, cut a few cords of wood (for Y2K don't youknow) and transport a carpool of makers and their considerable baggageto aGathering, there's a lot to be said for big.Besides, no one has challenged the statement that one piecers fishbetter.Isn't this what it's really all about?And how about Chris Wohlford's statement about transporting long rodsinski bags. Doesn't that take some of the sting out of air travel? In thesummer??Having said all this, I still keep a few 2-piecers handy for the verywelcome times when I am invited to carpool with others - in little cars. Bill from Ed_Dickson@bc.sympatico.ca Mon May 17 20:47:17 1999 forged)) Subject: planing forms.... Dear All, Has anyone reading this message used or seen planing formsbuilt by Dallas Abe of Legends Rods. Dallas is up in Williams LakeBritish Columbia. I am concidering a purchase of his standard 6 stripplaning forms, but have never actually seen any of his. Thanks. E.A.Dickson from irvine@bamboorods.org Mon May 17 20:56:23 1999 4.20.0009/LC0055.00.e068cef4) with ESMTP id wvkiaaaa for;Mon, 17 May 1999 18:56:12 -0700 Subject: Heat guns & Suburbans Have used a Sears for Five Years with out a hitch. White PVC racks ontop of the ol GMC are great, the rod is ready for instant action and theSierra sun doesn't bake the rods as hard as if they were in theSuburban, an ol one with 300,000 + miles. Tight Lines, Chuck from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon May 17 20:56:38 1999 Subject: Re: canes and reels Sue,The best reels for the price, that I like on a cane rod are,Bill Ballan's and Adams reels. They do look great on a cane rod. And also function very well, also.. Dave L. from tim_klein@email.msn.com Mon May 17 23:01:51 1999 SMTPSVC;Mon, 17 May 1999 21:00:37 -0700 Subject: Re: Heat gun Thanks for the feedback everyone. from the e-mails I've received, itsoundslike the Sears/Steinel is the way to go. Milwaukee got one positive note,and someone notified me that Black & Decker has discontinued their heatguns(apparently, a few are still available through B&D factory stores though). It looks like I won't be needing one for at least a little while longerthough. I bought my Wagner at Sears a year or so ago, but I took it with meanyway when I went to pick up the new Sears model. They're backordered couple of weeks so they swapped out the Wagner for me instead of makingmewait. It's a better model, so maybe it'll last a while. (probably just long enough for the price of a new one to go up 20 bucks orso) Thanks again! Tim--- -----Original Message----- tklein@amgen.com Subject: Re: Heat gun Tim If you have burned out two Wagners (I learned my lesson afterthe first one blew) skip the Black & Decker and go straight for a Steinel(AKABosch and Sears Professional) You will be happy. Chris On Mon, 17 May 1999 08:19:29 -0700, Klein, Tim wrote: I just blew out my second Wagner and am in need of a new heat gun. I'veheard good things about Black & Decker, but haven't been able to locateororder one locally. Does anyone know of a website or catalog where I canpurchase one? Any good experiences with other brands? I've always had good luck withSearsCraftsman tools, but I'd need a solid reference before I'd feel good aboutdropping the $99.00 they're asking for theirs. ---Tim from FlyfishT@aol.com Tue May 18 06:33:12 1999 Subject: question spline I am getting ready to put guides on my first rod, a Paul Young midge. After hearing different opinions on where to place the guides and reel seat,what are your opinions on this? I was wondering what other rodmakers thought.Is there an advantage to putting the guides on the spline side where the rod jumps or kicks when bent on an arc and rolled? Or is it better to put them 180 degrees from the spline? What is the casting difference? What is the tippet protection difference, if any? Is there much? FlyfishT from hhholland@erols.com Tue May 18 07:56:32 1999 Subject: Re: canes and reels -----Original Message----- Subject: canes and reels Hi Sue and List,I use several different reels on my cane rods -- it depends on which oneholds the line I want to use. I agree with Dave L. and others about some ofthe reels that "just look right." The Adams is one of my favorites, becauseof the removable spool and palming rim - a feature not found on thePeerlessand Balan, plus it is priced more reasonably. Another one to look out forif you want the traditional look is a Robachaud. I don't think he's makingthem any more, but you may find them on the used market. BTW, I haveseveral J. Ryals, and use them frequently. They don't look out of place onbamboo at all to my eye -- depends on the beholder, I guess. Also, Ryallmakes a Classic version that has more brass and less machining that maylookmore "classic" to your eyes. But then, just yesterday, I used a Bauer LM2with my Jon Parker 7'-9" rod to catch a bunch of bluegills on a newlydiscovered farm pond, and it looked just fine! The SA WF-5-F XPS ASTline(phew, I hope I have all the letters right) works very well with bamboo,forthose of you who have inquired about lines. Another BTW, I was using my3-3/8" Hardy Uniqua last fall, and while I was stripping a bunch of line off Regards.....Hank H. Let me try the question out then, cane builders/owners areoften enamored with not only the cane, but the hardware,wrappings, and I suppose the reel and line that will complimentthe cane. Curious if there IS a preferred cane reel out there ? Just to give you an example, I have a little ryall and a little rossthat don't 'fit' aesthetically with the cane. That's the only wayI can put it. But that little Hardy ? mmmm sweet ! even ifshe does make a tad bit o' noise *S* from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Tue May 18 09:18:15 1999 Subject: Re: canes and reels The new Hardy Bougle's are definitely worth a look. Re: Ballan reels, Iwould want an older model. Regards, Bobflysupplies@yahoo.com On Mon, 17 May 1999 LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: Sue,The best reels for the price, that I like on a cane rod are,Bill Ballan's and Adams reels. They do look great on a cane rod. And also function very well, also.. Dave L. from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Tue May 18 09:20:52 1999 Subject: Re: canes and reels Almost forgot another reel with a classic look not mentioned, AYR. Regards, Bobflysupplies@yahoo.com On Tue, 18 May 1999, Hank Holland wrote: -----Original Message-----From: Sue K. Date: Monday, May 17, 1999 12:22 PMSubject: canes and reels Hi Sue and List,I use several different reels on my cane rods -- it depends on which oneholds the line I want to use. I agree with Dave L. and others about someofthe reels that "just look right." The Adams is one of my favorites,becauseof the removable spool and palming rim - a feature not found on thePeerlessand Balan, plus it is priced more reasonably. Another one to look out forif you want the traditional look is a Robachaud. I don't think he's makingthem any more, but you may find them on the used market. BTW, I haveseveral J. Ryals, and use them frequently. They don't look out of place onbamboo at all to my eye -- depends on the beholder, I guess. Also, Ryallmakes a Classic version that has more brass and less machining thatmay lookmore "classic" to your eyes. But then, just yesterday, I used a BauerLM2with my Jon Parker 7'-9" rod to catch a bunch of bluegills on a newlydiscovered farm pond, and it looked just fine! The SA WF-5-F XPS ASTline(phew, I hope I have all the letters right) works very well with bamboo,forthose of you who have inquired about lines. Another BTW, I was using my3-3/8" Hardy Uniqua last fall, and while I was stripping a bunch of lineoff Regards.....Hank H. Let me try the question out then, cane builders/owners areoften enamored with not only the cane, but the hardware,wrappings, and I suppose the reel and line that will complimentthe cane. Curious if there IS a preferred cane reel out there ? Just to give you an example, I have a little ryall and a little rossthat don't 'fit' aesthetically with the cane. That's the only wayI can put it. But that little Hardy ? mmmm sweet ! even ifshe does make a tad bit o' noise *S* from brookie@frii.com Tue May 18 09:31:10 1999 Subject: Re: canes and reels bob perry had said : The new Hardy Bougle's are definitely worth a look. Re: Ballan reels, I would want an older model. give us/me a website to check them out ? hank had said: it depends on which one holds the line I want to use. I agree with Dave L. and others about some ofthe reels that "just look right." The Adams is oneof my favorites, because of the removable spool andpalming rim - a feature not found on the Peerlessand Balan, plus it is priced more reasonably. Anotherone to look out for if you want the traditional look is a Robachaud. I don't think he's making them any more, but you may find them on the used market. BTW, I have several J. Ryals, and use them frequently. They don't look out of place on bamboo at all to my eye -- depends on the beholder, I guess. Also, Ryallmakes a Classic version that has more brass and lessmachining that may look more "classic" to your eyes. likewise Hank, website with visuals of the Adams ? I tried to find theAdams reels through a quick websearch, but I have not learnt the successofthat yet and end up with all manner of unrelated stuff. I did not realizethat the Ballan does not have a removable spool. This is not of interestto me at all. I HAVE to have spools to put various weight lines on. Ikeep the number of reels down to a minimum ( financial ), yet have theflexibility of putting diff. lines on. I too like the Ryall, don't get mewrong. And the brass is the ticket there ! I'm just looking around atreels. Nay possible now, but you never know when the 'bug' will hit to geta new reel. Then there will be the silk lines.... this cane thing is allencompassing .... or should I say *grin*, flyfishing is !!! from WLBond@cps-satx.com Tue May 18 09:33:18 1999 199914:36:17 UT "'rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us'" Subject: RE: canes and reels Alert guys! Just heard on the radio that PETA is coming out againstFISHING. You may want to start looking out for these nuts. Before youknowit they will be doing to fisherman what they already are doing to gunowners. Watch out.Bill ----------From: Bob Perry[SMTP:rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us] Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 1999 9:19 AM Cc: brookie@frii.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: canes and reels Almost forgot another reel with a classic look not mentioned, AYR. Regards, Bobflysupplies@yahoo.com On Tue, 18 May 1999, Hank Holland wrote: -----Original Message-----From: Sue K. Date: Monday, May 17, 1999 12:22 PMSubject: canes and reels Hi Sue and List,I use several different reels on my cane rods -- it depends on whichoneholds the line I want to use. I agree with Dave L. and others aboutsome ofthe reels that "just look right." The Adams is one of my favorites,becauseof the removable spool and palming rim - a feature not found on thePeerlessand Balan, plus it is priced more reasonably. Another one to look outforif you want the traditional look is a Robachaud. I don't think he'smakingthem any more, but you may find them on the used market. BTW, I haveseveral J. Ryals, and use them frequently. They don't look out of placeonbamboo at all to my eye -- depends on the beholder, I guess. Also,Ryallmakes a Classic version that has more brass and less machining thatmaylookmore "classic" to your eyes. But then, just yesterday, I used a BauerLM2with my Jon Parker 7'-9" rod to catch a bunch of bluegills on a newlydiscovered farm pond, and it looked just fine! The SA WF-5-F XPS ASTline(phew, I hope I have all the letters right) works very well with bamboo,forthose of you who have inquired about lines. Another BTW, I was usingmy3-3/8" Hardy Uniqua last fall, and while I was stripping a bunch of lineoff Regards.....Hank H. Let me try the question out then, cane builders/owners areoften enamored with not only the cane, but the hardware,wrappings, and I suppose the reel and line that will complimentthe cane. Curious if there IS a preferred cane reel out there ? Just to give you an example, I have a little ryall and a little rossthat don't 'fit' aesthetically with the cane. That's the only wayI can put it. But that little Hardy ? mmmm sweet ! even ifshe does make a tad bit o' noise *S* from brookie@frii.com Tue May 18 09:50:06 1999 Subject: RE: canes and reels Alert guys! Just heard on the radio that PETA is coming out against FISHING. You may want tostart looking out for these nuts. Before you knowit they will be doing to fisherman what they alreadyare doing to gun owners. Watch out.Bill not to worry, out in the wild wild west here ? we'restill armed :-)))) from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Tue May 18 10:20:45 1999 (rperry@bookworm.suffolk.lib.ny.us Subject: Re: canes and reels On Tue, 18 May 1999, Sue K. wrote: bob perry had said : The new Hardy Bougle's are definitely worth a look. Re: Ballan reels, I would want an older model. give us/me a website to check them out ? Sorry. Pics/info here: http://www.freeyellow.com/members4/flysupplies/page12.html Another pic here: http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/8393/bougle3.gif Tell me this ain't sweet! Regards, Bobflysupplies@yahoo.com from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue May 18 10:22:36 1999 8:24:26 PDT Subject: Website with Adams reels Sue, Here is a website that shows Adams reels. http://members.aol.com/fisherff/ Click on "Catalog Only" and then the "Adams Fly Reels" line. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from HALLOWELLMA@atgl.spear.navy.mil Tue May 18 11:06:34 1999 (5.5.2232.9) "\"fiveside@net-gate.com\" " Subject: RE: Vans and Suburbans That is why we all have trucks in TX R/Mark ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Vans and SuburbansAuthor: "fiveside@net-gate.com" [SMTP:fiveside@net-gate.com] atATGLANT To the ListA bit off the subject but please bear with me in defense of vehiclescapable of transporting one piecers. First of all, 7-footers- plus fit in most any vehicle, but admittedly with some inconvenience. But besides transporting one piecers, when you transport large hunting-size labs,sleep in your vehicle now and then, cut a few cords of wood (for Y2K don't you know) and transport a carpool of makers and their considerable baggage toa Gathering, there's a lot to be said for big.Besides, no one has challenged the statement that one piecers fishbetter.Isn't this what it's really all about?And how about Chris Wohlford's statement about transporting long rodsinski bags. Doesn't that take some of the sting out of air travel? In thesummer??Having said all this, I still keep a few 2-piecers handy for the verywelcome times when I am invited to carpool with others - in little cars.Bill from arnold.jl@pg.com Tue May 18 12:40:21 1999 [192.44.184.129] 1998)) id85256775.0061119D ; Tue, 18 May 1999 13:40:15 -0400 Subject: Re: canes and reels Bob, why would you want an older Ballan? What has changed? Jeff Bob Perry on 05/18/99 10:17:12 AM Please respond to rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Arnold-JL/PGI)Subject: Re: canes and reels The new Hardy Bougle's are definitely worth a look. Re: Ballan reels, Iwould want an older model. Regards, Bobflysupplies@yahoo.com On Mon, 17 May 1999 LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: Sue,The best reels for the price, that I like on a cane rod are,Bill Ballan's and Adams reels. They do look great on a canerod. And also function very well, also.. Dave L. from drodgers@ddaccess.net Tue May 18 13:12:49 1999 ddasvr1.ddaccess.comwith SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) Subject: Re: canes and reels I was just wondering the same thing.Dan-----Original Message----- ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: canes and reels Bob, why would you want an older Ballan? What has changed? Jeff Bob Perry on 05/18/99 10:17:12 AM Please respond to rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us cc: brookie@frii.com, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu (bcc: JeffArnold- JL/PGI)Subject: Re: canes and reels The new Hardy Bougle's are definitely worth a look. Re: Ballan reels, Iwould want an older model. Regards, Bobflysupplies@yahoo.com On Mon, 17 May 1999 LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: Sue,The best reels for the price, that I like on a cane rod are,Bill Ballan's and Adams reels. They do look great on a canerod. And also function very well, also.. Dave L. from rafick@fwi.com Tue May 18 13:29:11 1999 Subject: ferrules boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BEA133.EAB224E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BEA133.EAB224E0 How many have tried the ferrule made by R.E.C., how does it compare to =the super swiss made by Baily Woods. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BEA133.EAB224E0 How many have tried the ferrulemade = how does it compare to the super swiss made by BailyWoods. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BEA133.EAB224E0-- from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue May 18 14:04:40 1999 12:06:40 PDT Subject: RE: Ferrules R.A., I've used the standard REC Uniferrules, and I believe their truncated version became available in April. They advertise that these ferrules take 30 minutes to final fit by hand. I would guess that it takes even less time then that. They partially engage right out of the package. I think hand fitters could do the final fitting with 0000 steel wool. That's probably optimistic but they are very close to final size, which I think is a big plus for those without a lathe. Machined from solid stock you can heat them up without fear of losing a welt or water seal. They come with a laser engraved REC logo, which I don't like because it is one more thing to have to center to a particular flat if you're into cosmetics, which I am. However, you can request that they not put thelogo on the ferrule at the time you place your order. Uniferrules have two decorative lines about mid tube on the female and overall are very nice looking, in terms of shape and welt etc. I assume they might be heavier then the SS because of the solid construction andthe thicker water seal, but I've not weighed them alongside each other, so could be no real difference. The water seal is V shaped from the boring process, so for the best fit, you can put an angle on the bamboo so it fits to the very bottom. Probably not necessary. They come with a final polish, but also oxidize nicely. The payne formula produces a dark gray/dark blue look depending on how the light hits the ferrule. They have cut sleeves that are lapped nicely. That's my opinion on the Uniferrules. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from chris@artistree.com Tue May 18 15:24:03 1999 Subject: Refinishing Silk Lines Stumbled across this web page that might be of interest to some:Refinishing old silk lines http://www.elisis.com/Fly.fishing.history/refinishing_old_silk_lines.htm The rest of the site is pretty interesting as well:A History of Fly Fishing http://www.elisis.com/Fly.fishing.history/contents.htm -- Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from rclarke@eou.edu Tue May 18 16:49:02 1999 15:08:24 -0700 Subject: Troutdale meeting Would Gary Lohncamp reply to me? I lost your email address and aminterested in the May22 meeting in Troutdale. Thanks, Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu from rcurry@ttlc.net Tue May 18 17:15:13 1999 (SMTPD32-5.01) id A69715500F6; Tue, 18 May 1999 18:15:51 EDT Subject: Re: Refinishing Silk Lines Chris,Darryl has done an article on refinishing silk lines that I believe willprovidebetter methods thanthose shown.Best regards,Reed Chris Wohlford wrote: Stumbled across this web page that might be of interest to some:Refinishing old silk lines http://www.elisis.com/Fly.fishing.history/refinishing_old_silk_lines.htm The rest of the site is pretty interesting as well:A History of Fly Fishing http://www.elisis.com/Fly.fishing.history/contents.htm -- Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com> from brookie@frii.com Tue May 18 19:10:131999 Subject: Re: canes and reels Reed said : I go for the true classic look - Pflueger Medalist.The harsh grating sound is reminescent of my son's first attempt at a manual transmission...ahhh.I also use Pflueger Progress, and the elegant Delite.On quiet days I use a Johnson Magnetic, it looks hideous on the cane rod. This is poetic description of PM ! Just now readingthrough some of the emails re reels and canes. Apologiesto the purists on this List that would prefer only postson the building of cane. The "harsh grating sound" ... " manual transmission " !YES ! Actually the PM in my stable are more like the sound of a small rock that has gotten stuck, as the result of a short 'dip' of rod, reel and flyfisher in the movingwaters ! from cbogart@shentel.net Tue May 18 20:04:19 1999 mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net(InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Refinishing Silk Lines ReedI agree - not the best methods described. Chris On Tue, 18 May 1999 18:15:27 -0400, Reed Curry wrote: Chris,Darryl has done an article on refinishing silk lines that I believe willprovidebetter methods thanthose shown.Best regards,Reed Chris Wohlford wrote: Stumbled across this web page that might be of interest to some:Refinishing old silk lines http://www.elisis.com/Fly.fishing.history/refinishing_old_silk_lines.htm The rest of the site is pretty interesting as well:A History of Fly Fishing http://www.elisis.com/Fly.fishing.history/contents.htm -- Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from irvine@bamboorods.org Tue May 18 22:55:09 1999 4.20.0009/LC0055.00.e068cef4) with ESMTP id fgniaaaa for;Tue, 18 May 1999 20:54:44 -0700 Subject: Spiked Ferrules To All: Does anyone know of a source of the ol spiked type ferrules? Need one tofinish a restoration job, guess I could make one if I were a littlesmarter, but. Thanks, Chuck from channer@hubwest.com Tue May 18 23:34:15 1999 (SMTPD32-4.06) id AF8626F40068; Tue, 18 May 1999 22:35:18 MST Subject: Re: ferrules At 01:39 PM 5/18/99 -0500, R.A.Fick wrote:How many have tried the ferrule made by R.E.C., how does it compareto the super swiss made by Baily Woods. Much the same, except they are machined from solid stock instead of made from tubing, otherwise the only real difference is the REC logo. Eitherones are very nice ferrules.John from destinycon@mindspring.com Wed May 19 06:15:15 1999 Subject: Re: Refinishing Silk Lines Reed, or Darryl,Where could I get a copy of this article?Regards,Gary H. At 06:15 PM 5/18/99 -0400, Reed Curry wrote:Chris,Darryl has done an article on refinishing silk lines that I believewill provide better methods thanthose shown.Best regards,Reed from hhholland@erols.com Wed May 19 07:07:04 1999 244.s244.tnt1.clm.md.dialup.rcn.com Subject: Re: canes and reels Hi Sue,I see you got a site for the Adams reel from Chris C. Meanwhile, ChrisBogart has reminded me that Bill Ballen DOES make a palming reel for a4-weight. I guess I haven't seen it, but I'm sure that it's a beauty!Hank H. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: canes and reels bob perry had said : The new Hardy Bougle's are definitely worth a look.Re: Ballan reels, I would want an older model. give us/me a website to check them out ? hank had said: it depends on which one holds the line I want to use.I agree with Dave L. and others about some ofthe reels that "just look right." The Adams is oneof my favorites, because of the removable spool andpalming rim - a feature not found on the Peerlessand Balan, plus it is priced more reasonably. Anotherone to look out for if you want the traditional look isa Robachaud. I don't think he's making them any more,but you may find them on the used market. BTW, Ihave several J. Ryals, and use them frequently. Theydon't look out of place on bamboo at all to my eye --depends on the beholder, I guess. Also, Ryallmakes a Classic version that has more brass and lessmachining that may look more "classic" to your eyes. likewise Hank, website with visuals of the Adams ? I tried to find theAdams reels through a quick websearch, but I have not learnt the successofthat yet and end up with all manner of unrelated stuff. I did not realizethat the Ballan does not have a removable spool. This is not of interestto me at all. I HAVE to have spools to put various weight lines on. Ikeep the number of reels down to a minimum ( financial ), yet have theflexibility of putting diff. lines on. I too like the Ryall, don't get mewrong. And the brass is the ticket there ! I'm just looking around atreels. Nay possible now, but you never know when the 'bug' will hit to geta new reel. Then there will be the silk lines.... this cane thing is allencompassing .... or should I say *grin*, flyfishing is !!! from SalarFly@aol.com Wed May 19 10:47:18 1999 Subject: Re: Refinishing Silk Lines Reed, or Darryl,Where could I get a copy of this article? It's supposed to coming out in one of the Bamboo Flyrod Magazines,but it's all up to the editor as to which issue it appears in. Darryl from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed May 19 13:39:23 1999 LAA07533 (5.5.2407.0) does anybody know how to get to troutdale for the meeting thisweekend?? from rcurry@ttlc.net Wed May 19 15:40:17 1999 (SMTPD32-5.01) id A1E5541002C; Wed, 19 May 1999 16:41:09 EDT Subject: Re: Refinishing Silk Lines Gary,As a temporary alternative to the article, you might ask Willis Reid ifhe could supply a copy of the video of Chris Bogart's Silk Refinishingpresentation from last year's Roscoe meeting. Apparently it hasamusementvalue, as well, though I haven't seen it.Best regards,ReedP.S. - If you search the archives, you'll find some emails on this subjectthat describe good methods. Heidt wrote: Reed, or Darryl,Where could I get a copy of this article?Regards,Gary H. At 06:15 PM 5/18/99 -0400, Reed Curry wrote:Chris,Darryl has done an article on refinishing silk lines that I believewill provide better methods thanthose shown.Best regards,Reed from rcurry@ttlc.net Wed May 19 15:54:29 1999 (SMTPD32-5.01) id A537A8C0120; Wed, 19 May 1999 16:55:19 EDT Subject: Re: canes and reels Sue,You must try a Pflueger Delite (60 yards) some time. This isreminescent of the small Vom Hofe. Excellent reel. Also the brass 60 ydProgress (with Bulldog), is a very pleasant reel. Both of theselook/feel good with light cane rods.Any of the brass raised pillar skeleton reels look good with a canerod.But to really balance a 10' Leonard Salmon rod, you need a Medalist1498 (or 1496 1/2), with, perhaps, a few #9 lead shot inside.Best regards,ReedBTW - I do have a Ballan, but the click is so light that it gets abacklash when I strip line. Highly decorative onstream, though. "Sue K." wrote: Actually the PM in my stable are more like the sound ofa small rock that has gotten stuck, as the result ofa short 'dip' of rod, reel and flyfisher in the movingwaters ! from bdcreek@crosswinds.net Wed May 19 17:28:10 1999 (envelope- from bdcreek@crosswinds.net) Subject: [Fwd: Precision Weighing Balances Internet Wholesale Distributorto the Public] boundary="------------15261F29555400C25F111431" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 15261F29555400C25F111431 --------------15261F29555400C25F111431 Subject: Precision Weighing Balances Internet Wholesale Distributor tothe Public boundary="------------EA735562A9CD679737E19AB8" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- EA735562A9CD679737E19AB8 I needed a good scale for measuring adhesive components and found anOhaus 750-00 Triple Beam Balance (just like we used in chemistry class!) http://scalenet.com/home.html They have thousands of fancy scales, I just like the TBB. No batteries,I know how to set it up and use it, I can check and adjust the weighteasily. Brian --------------EA735562A9CD679737E19AB8 name="home.html" filename="home.html"Content-Base: "http://scalenet.com/home.html"Content-Location: "http://scalenet.com/home.html" Precision Weighing Balances Internet Wholesale Distributor to the=Public Ho=t buys 500 = lbs digital scale for heavy people $199.99= World's best selling pocket = scale - Tanita 1479. Buy 6 pcs. pay only $74.95 each. Tha=t over = 58% off MSRP. See details= Low cost diet scales and wholesale = pricing for multiple units.Legal for trade 1200 g x 0.1g = perfect for jeweler or tobacco shop. 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We are registered wit=h the = CCR and ready to serve our Department of Defense customers. We also=accept = federal government International Merchant Purchase Authorization Ca=rd (IMPAC). =product = lines we offer the right weighing instruments for any of your wei=ghing = needs. Precision Weighing Balances stocks a tremendous inventory =at our = warehouse since we are also a wholesaler for the weighing industr=y serving = resale to all types of industries and scale companies. Others may attemptt=o copy = our web site ideas but nobody can copy our inventory, prices and =experience = , Discover, = M/C, Visa and offer a secured = order form for your added convenience. Specials/ = Order/A&D/ = Amcells/ T=anita/ = Ohaus/ Accula=b/ CAS/ = Pocket Scales/ A=nalyticals/ = Moisture Balances/ Precision = Toploaders/ Industrial/ Counting = Scales/ Computing Scales/ Mechanical/ = Contact Us Have Questions? = Tell us what you need and we will assist you in your selection. Copyright (c)1999 =Precision = Weighing Balances All rights reserved. http://www.balances.co=m, balances.net, = balances.org, scaleman.com, scalenet.com, weigh.net & weigh.o=rg are = all registered domains of Precision Weighing Balances. --------------EA735562A9CD679737E19AB8-- --------------15261F29555400C25F111431-- from DARRELLL@earthlink.net Wed May 19 17:31:57 1999 Subject: Reels for cane boundary="=PMail:=_0003@@nJPb9UcDr6nNijEbhaMr" --=PMail:=_0003@@nJPb9UcDr6nNijEbhaMr How about the Meisselbach Catucci reels? Just don't drop it on therocks...= --=PMail:=_0003@@nJPb9UcDr6nNijEbhaMr-- from brookie@frii.com Wed May 19 17:41:21 1999 Subject: Re: Reels for cane At 03:31 PM 5/19/99 +0000, you wrote:How about the Meisselbach Catucci reels? Just don't drop it on the rocks... must be made out of glass, eh ? *S* ok Darrell, have a website for thesebeauties ? sue from GLohkamp@aol.com Wed May 19 18:03:33 1999 Subject: cane rods and reels Check out the Bellinger / Saracione reels, very classic very well made. Gary from hexagon@odyssee.net Wed May 19 18:27:14 1999 Subject: bastards anyone checked the bastards out lately? from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed May 19 18:31:51 1999 Subject: Re: Re: Refinishing Silk Lines destinycon@mindspring.com In a message dated 5/19/99 8:42:21 PM, rcurry@ttlc.net wrote: That's odd Reed, I saw the presentation, and I seem to recall that Chris' partner was providing most of the comic relief. from Canerods@aol.com Wed May 19 18:40:11 1999 Subject: Granger Special??? All, I just got in an 8'6" W&M Granger Special (3/1) that needs restoration. It's wraps appear to be incorrectly wrapped. The tip is in Granger Green - so far so good, but the mid and butt section are wrapped in gold. All of these wraps appear to be original. They're well wrapped and show all signs of having been on the rod since new. A fewhave been replaced with crude dark green wraps.So I'll guess that the tip is a replacement. But this doesn't answer my question, which is: Did W&M ever wrap theSpecial in gold wraps? Don Burns PS - A few more details: Shaft grade stamp is "Granger Special" and the writing reads away from the grip, so it's not a rod from the late, late end of production era. from dericco@banet.net Wed May 19 19:06:38 1999 out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA57488 for; Thu,20 May 1999 00:06:34 GMT Subject: building planing forms To All,I'd like to start building a set of adjustable final planing forms from wood. Does anyone have any suggestions or preferred methods?Thanks. Roger from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Wed May 19 19:19:47 1999 (5.5.2232.9) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: building planing forms Roger,read Tony Young's home page on the subject. You'll find it if yousearch for cane rods in Australia which is listed in some of the linkspagesif my memory serves me correctly. My forms are made to this formula andhave, so far, produced a very nice Sir D and the blanks for a Paul YoungPerfectionist. Good luck! Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: building planing forms To All,I'd like to start building a set of adjustable final planing forms from wood. Does anyone have any suggestions or preferred methods?Thanks. Roger from briansr@point-net.com Wed May 19 19:44:45 1999 0000 Subject: Re:Bastards To Terry A. Yep, unfortunately they are still in power in Quebec City.We'll just have to wait for another election!!!Cheers Brian from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Wed May 19 20:49:32 1999 with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.83q.R) Subject: Re: bastards It looks like Uncle George is taking a sabbatical from rod building whiletrying to procure some cutters. Me thinks he has gotten in over his head.He announced on his webpage that he is sending folks money back to them.Take a look see at http://www.gink.com. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: bastards anyone checked the bastards out lately? from lblan@provide.net Wed May 19 21:24:53 1999 Subject: RE: canes and reels Ah, classic Reed. Now, where does this leave me with my ShakespeareAutomatic? Talk about balancing a rod... :) Sue,You must try a Pflueger Delite (60 yards) some time. This isreminescent of the small Vom Hofe. Excellent reel. Also the brass 60 ydProgress (with Bulldog), is a very pleasant reel. Both of theselook/feel good with light cane rods.Any of the brass raised pillar skeleton reels look good with a canerod.But to really balance a 10' Leonard Salmon rod, you need a Medalist1498 (or 1496 1/2), with, perhaps, a few #9 lead shot inside.Best regards,ReedBTW - I do have a Ballan, but the click is so light that it gets abacklash when I strip line. Highly decorative onstream, though. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed May 19 22:24:03 1999 Thu, 20 May 1999 11:23:29 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: building planing forms Roger,take a look at my page. The address is at the bottom of the message. Tony On Wed, 19 May 1999 dericco@banet.net wrote: To All,I'd like to start building a set of adjustable final planing forms from wood. Does anyone have any suggestions or preferred methods?Thanks. Roger /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed May 19 23:26:00 1999 Thu, 20 May 1999 11:25:11 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: bastards There must be some cheap gear about to hit the market? Tony On Wed, 19 May 1999, Joe C. Byrd wrote: It looks like Uncle George is taking a sabbatical from rod building whiletrying to procure some cutters. Me thinks he has gotten in over his head.He announced on his webpage that he is sending folks money back tothem.Take a look see at http://www.gink.com. ----- Original Message -----From: TERENCE ACKLAND Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 7:29 PMSubject: bastards anyone checked the bastards out lately? /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu May 20 00:44:22 1999 (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: cane rods and reels Other than the traditional choice of Hardy and some of the S-handle reelsmentioned, I think a truly elegant look is the Henshel progressive foot reelon a cane rod. There was a stunning photo on the cover of a Calumet(photographic supplies) catalog a couple of years ago. Unfortunately, Idon't have a flat-bed scanner to scan such items. Maybe in the future I'llbe able to post it. George Bourke -----Original Message----- Subject: cane rods and reels Check out the Bellinger / Saracione reels, very classic very well made.Gary from brookie@frii.com Thu May 20 07:44:59 1999 Subject: plueger 1494-1/2 reed had said yesterday : But to really balance a 10' Leonard Salmon rod, you need a Medalist 1498 (or 1496 1/2), with, perhaps, a few #9 lead shot inside. I suppose lots of us still have our Pluegers that westarted with. Reed, as I sit and type, to my leftIS a 1494-1/2. The only parts that ARE still lookinghalfway good on this workhorse is the small 3/4"PM emblem ( Made in U.S.A. ) in the center on the spooland the handle. What is that material anyway ? Anoff white "marble" looking. This old Plueger has been through the mill as they say. And until recently,I was putting my Hardy Princess through the same. Ihave a propensity to falling down and instead of breakinga body part, generally end up putting the reel down first.They take a beating. Bent rims and all. Good I know achap who will unkink them ! *S* Thanks for the respite on the RodM. List to talk caneand reels. I learned ( and saw ) alot through websites. from tklein@amgen.com Thu May 20 10:31:57 1999 smtp.amgen.com via smap (3.2) Subject: RE: bastards I was looking around George's site, and noticed that he had a similar dealrunning for the world's greatest fly reel that he was manufacturing. Thatportion of the site is set up the same as the bastards, only his reports onprogress apparently stopped in January (hmmm...isn't that about the sametime he started working on the bastard?) Does anyone know if he delivered on any of the fly reels?---Tim ----------From: Tony Young[SMTP:tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 9:25 PM Cc: hexagon@odyssee.net; rodmakers@wustl.eduSubject: Re: bastards There must be some cheap gear about to hit the market? Tony On Wed, 19 May 1999, Joe C. Byrd wrote: It looks like Uncle George is taking a sabbatical from rod buildingwhiletrying to procure some cutters. Me thinks he has gotten in over hishead.He announced on his webpage that he is sending folks money back tothem.Take a look see at http://www.gink.com. ----- Original Message -----From: TERENCE ACKLAND Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 7:29 PMSubject: bastards anyone checked the bastards out lately? /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from rcurry@ttlc.net Thu May 20 12:13:57 1999 (SMTPD32-5.01) id A305F7A014E; Thu, 20 May 1999 13:14:45 EDT Subject: Re: canes and reels Larry,I have it on good authority from a well-known Jackpine Savage, that aShakespeare Automatic is du rigor for the properly outfitted Ausabledriftboat fisherman. Forget the Harris Tweed with suede elbow patches,aslong as you have your Shakespeare Automatic, and can knock a whiskeyjackoffa pine bough with one well-aimed stream of tabacc (or concentratedinvective), you are "classic" in Grayling, eh?Look forward to seeing you in Grayrock, soon.Best regards,Reed Larry Blan wrote: Ah, classic Reed. Now, where does this leave me with my ShakespeareAutomatic? Talk about balancing a rod... :) Sue,You must try a Pflueger Delite (60 yards) some time. This isreminescent of the small Vom Hofe. Excellent reel. Also the brass 60ydProgress (with Bulldog), is a very pleasant reel. Both of theselook/feel good with light cane rods.Any of the brass raised pillar skeleton reels look good with a canerod.But to really balance a 10' Leonard Salmon rod, you need a Medalist1498 (or 1496 1/2), with, perhaps, a few #9 lead shot inside.Best regards,ReedBTW - I do have a Ballan, but the click is so light that it gets abacklash when I strip line. Highly decorative onstream, though. from jstines@bellsouth.net Thu May 20 12:34:23 1999 NAA15104 Subject: Re: plueger 1494-1/2 I suppose lots of us still have our Pluegers that westarted with. Reed, as I sit and type, to my leftIS a 1494-1/2. The only parts that ARE still lookinghalfway good on this workhorse is the small 3/4"PM emblem ( Made in U.S.A. ) in the center on the spooland the handle. What is that material anyway ? Anoff white "marble" looking. Howdy Sue, I have the same reel. I'm not 100% sure, but I think it is anearly form of plastic. Not very romantic, I know. See ya,Salty John "Salty" StinesCramerton, NCjstines@bellsouth.net "All experience hath shown that mankind are more disposedto suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves -- Declaration of Independence, July 4, 1776 from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu May 20 12:58:42 1999 Subject: Re: bastards/ Enough is enough List,Now really, don't we have better things to put on this list than thingsabout Gerke and his BS? It is like my other business of contracting when I see someone come out of the woodwork with a cheap price and job. Theyaren't any worry to me because they will flounder and eventually fail. Let this bethe last S--T put on here about Gerke and any other trivial BS not connected to the actual building of rods. I don't really think he is going to impact any of us here. It is like buying from Pete's Discount Tackle Company. Anyone who is going to go that way in their purchase wouldn't have bought fromyou anyway.Bret from brookie@frii.com Thu May 20 13:09:35 1999 Subject: Re: bastards/ Enough is enough soooo, this is the ultimatium ? bummer Let this be the last S--T put on here about Gerke and any other trivial BS not connected to the actual building of rods. sorry to see this proclamation. this list is only for postshaving to do the building of rods ? mmmmm, too bad, I wasthinking this WAS a list that could withstand 'talk' of anythingrelated to cane rods. believe me, there ARE alot of us 600+subscribers that are NOT builders that ARE interested in allfacets of cane .... not just the building. tell me now and I'll stop posting, cuz this lady does NOT( yet ) build cane, but IS interested ... in all manner ofthings relating to, of and for from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu May 20 15:29:27 1999 rodmakers@wustl.eduSubject: Re: bastards/ Enough is enough rodmaking.Lots about reels and silk lines.The trails and tribulations of George is far more interesting than theusualstuff that is served up on the list.I think George has got shafted with the rough end of a Pineapple by a lot of"advisers" who he has named on his page. He is $100000 in the holewithout makinga rod and he still has confidence in the guys that put him there.Take a look at the archives and check this guy Whitely out. A year ago hewasbragging that he has sold 500 rods and only last month he told the list hehassold 1000 rods plus!I sent an email to George suggesting that he should check out his advisersqualifications before he goes any further.It is possible to produce cane rods using machinery, but not with the roughlooking contraption that George has.Jordan at Orvis built production rods that sold for the equivalent of 2monthspay for the working man, and Jordan knew what he was doing. I cannot seea guywithout experience being able to build a rod for less than a weeks pay.Terry AcklandGrhghlndr@aol.com wrote: List,Now really, don't we have better things to put on this list than thingsaboutGerke and his BS? It is like my other business of contracting when I seesomeone come out of the woodwork with a cheap price and job. Theyaren't anyworry to me because they will flounder and eventually fail. Let this bethelast S--T put on here about Gerke and any other trivial BS not connectedtothe actual building of rods. I don't really think he is going to impact anyof us here. It is like buying from Pete's Discount Tackle Company. Anyonewho is going to go that way in their purchase wouldn't have bought fromyouanyway.Bret from briansr@point-net.com Thu May 20 15:40:32 1999 0000 Subject: Re Bastards/enuff is enuff Bastard rods and it's success or most probable demise IS rodmaking.GerkeDIDmention he was going to make BAMBOO rods. The current thread Cane &ReelsIS most definately related to Cane RM. I've actually enjoyed this threadeven without participating .I've found the different views on what shouldgrace a Bamboo rod very entertaining. Personally I hang Hardys and a #8Maurice Noel + on mine.That being said without this thread I don'tthinkthat olde Plueger would have been brought out of the closet, invokingpleasant memories. Perhaps that noisy old piece of s--t might hang on arodagain!!!!!Cheers BrianPS anyone got a spare spool for a Hardy #6 multiplier ??? from arnold.jl@pg.com Thu May 20 17:13:07 1999 [192.44.184.129] 1998)) id85256777.007A0707 ; Thu, 20 May 1999 18:12:51 -0400 Subject: Re: bastards Maybe we should suggest a hand plane!!!!! Jeff "Joe C. Byrd" on 05/19/99 09:48:57 PM Please respond to jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Subject: Re: bastards It looks like Uncle George is taking a sabbatical from rod building whiletrying to procure some cutters. Me thinks he has gotten in over his head.He announced on his webpage that he is sending folks money back to them.Take a look see at http://www.gink.com. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: bastards anyone checked the bastards out lately? from fiveside@net-gate.com Thu May 20 18:20:15 1999 ns1.net-gate.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA01034 for; Subject: Classic Reels To the List'To you all, male and female, at least get the spelling correct. It is:PFLUEGERThanks. Bill from dr.matro@airmail.net Thu May 20 18:29:07 1999 (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.400) with esmtp for Subject: '57 Atlas Lathe I have taken possession of a 1957 Atlas/Craftsman 6"X18" lathe in verytight condition. Anyone out there have a source forliterature-of-the-day on something like this. Sears was no help at all.Any help would be appreciated. TIA. KC from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu May 20 18:45:18 1999 Subject: Re: '57 Atlas Lathe rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 5/20/99 11:35:40 PM, dr.matro@airmail.net wrote: The assets of the Atlas Lathe company have been taken over by Clausing.They should have a manual, and any parts except the castings should still be available.Clausing Industrial811 Eisenhower Dr SouthGoshen, Indiana from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Thu May 20 19:19:15 1999 Subject: Noel? never on a Bastard! On Thu, 20 May 1999, Brian Sturrock wrote: Bastard rods and it's success or most probable demise ISrodmaking.Gerke DIDmention he was going to make BAMBOO rods. The current thread Cane &ReelsIS most definately related to Cane RM. I've actually enjoyed this threadeven without participating .I've found the different views on whatshouldgrace a Bamboo rod very entertaining. Personally I hang Hardys and a# 8Maurice Noel + on mine.That being said without this thread I don'tthinkthat olde Plueger would have been brought out of the closet, invokingpleasant memories. Perhaps that noisy old piece of s--t might hang on arodagain!!!!! And speaking of the Noel reels, if anyone wants a look at these beauties,I just today uploaded a pic of the smallest one to my site. http://www.geocities.com:80/Yosemite/Rapids/8393/Noel.jpg Cheers BrianPS anyone got a spare spool for a Hardy #6 multiplier ??? NG on the spool but I'll see if I can dig one up. Regards, BobFly Suppliesflysupplies@yahoo.com from hhholland@erols.com Thu May 20 19:41:55 1999 249.s249.tnt1.clm.md.dialup.rcn.com Subject: Re: Classic Reels Does anyone else remember that somebody made a replacement reel foot thing called a Pfleuger Pfoot?Regards,......Hank H. -----Original Message----- Subject: Classic Reels To the List'To you all, male and female, at least get the spelling correct. It is:PFLUEGERThanks. Bill from gl@msrr.dmso.mil Thu May 20 20:15:05 1999 triton.dmso.mil(8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA08777 for ;Thu, 20 May 1999 Subject: which plane? if someone were going to give me one of those nice lie-nielsen blockplanes, should the give me the low angel or regular model? tia. gl-------------------- gary mischcdr, usn (ret.) from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu May 20 21:46:24 1999 Fri, 21 May 1999 10:45:51 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: which plane? The higher angled model will be better remembering the adjustable mouthisjust as important as the angle.Tell the nice person offering you'll take either, and if you don't like itlet me know, I'll give it a good home. ;-) Tony On Thu, 20 May 1999 gl@msrr.dmso.mil wrote: if someone were going to give me one of those nice lie-nielsen blockplanes, should the give me the low angel or regular model? tia. gl-------------------- gary mischcdr, usn (ret.) /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Thu May 20 22:07:23 1999 with ESMTP id +0000 Subject: Re: Classic Reels Hi all, This little discussion leads me to a question. But first some background: I have a couple of spools for a Pflueger(Thanks Bill =^)) Medalist model 1498. The part No. is 499. They'rekind of old. I got them in Lake So-and-so, NJ from the widow of a manwho was selling off his flyfishing/tying materials and equipment sincehis family had no interest in the sport. One has a WF9F bug taper(written in what looks like correction fluid on the back of the spool)and about a gazillion yards of backing. The other has a level sinkingline, lead core (LLC13?) and half a gazillion yards of backingapparently used for trolling. The line on both spools is pretty welloxidized (PVC) and probably useless, but the spools themselves are invery good shape. Along with them (all in one spool box) are two washersin plastic envelopes that appear to be spacers, a leather fob that lookslike a spool brake from an old surf/squidding reel and threemonofilament leaders with wire bite tippets, most likely used to catchpickerel. I include these in the description only because the monolooks pretty fragile and the wire bite tippets look pretty oxidized andfragile too. The washers seem to have been well preserved in theirplastic pouches. I would guesstimate they're from the late fifties orearly sixties... Anyway... Is that reel still available? Can I still get a reel body If so they would probably makegreat salmon reels. TIA, Dennis Bill Fink wrote: To the List'To you all, male and female, at least get the spelling correct. It is:PFLUEGERThanks. Bill from hiltonl@benzie.com Thu May 20 22:40:50 1999 (SMTPD32-4.07) id A63A5C510132; Thu, 20 May 1999 23:42:50 EST Subject: Classic Reels While on the subject of classic fly reels.....can anyone out thererecommend any books specific to identifying and collecting fly reels. from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Thu May 20 22:54:28 1999 Subject: Re: Classic Reels Antique Fly Reels by D.B. Homel, softcover, $22 Classic Antique Fly-Fishing Tackle by A.J. Campbell, hardcover, $50 Regards, BobFly Suppliesflysupplies@yahoo.com On Thu, 20 May 1999, Larry Hilton wrote: While on the subject of classic fly reels.....can anyone out thererecommend any books specific to identifying and collecting fly reels. from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Thu May 20 22:58:46 1999 (rperry@bookworm.suffolk.lib.ny.us Subject: Re: Classic Reels On Thu, 20 May 1999, Dennis Haftel wrote: Hi all, This little discussion leads me to a question. But first some background: I have a couple of spools for a Pflueger(Thanks Bill =^)) Medalist model 1498. The part No. is 499. They'rekind of old. I got them in Lake So-and-so, NJ from the widow of a manwho was selling off his flyfishing/tying materials and equipment sincehis family had no interest in the sport. One has a WF9F bug taper(written in what looks like correction fluid on the back of the spool)and about a gazillion yards of backing. The other has a level sinkingline, lead core (LLC13?) and half a gazillion yards of backingapparently used for trolling. The line on both spools is pretty welloxidized (PVC) and probably useless, but the spools themselves are invery good shape. Along with them (all in one spool box) are two washersin plastic envelopes that appear to be spacers, a leather fob that lookslike a spool brake from an old surf/squidding reel and threemonofilament leaders with wire bite tippets, most likely used to catchpickerel. I include these in the description only because the monolooks pretty fragile and the wire bite tippets look pretty oxidized andfragile too. The washers seem to have been well preserved in theirplastic pouches. I would guesstimate they're from the late fifties orearly sixties... tired!> Anyway... Is that reel still available? Can I still get a reel body If so they would probably makegreat salmon reels. Don't go for a made in China model, pick up one of the made in USA models.The large 1498 size is not that popular and they come up on eBay all thetime for not much money. If you send an email to my Fly Supplies mailboxthat you want one, I'll remember to shoot you a heads up if I see one forsale or get one in. Never have seen just a frame for sale. Regards, BobFly Suppliesflysupplies@yahoo.com from rcurry@ttlc.net Fri May 21 04:51:47 1999 (SMTPD32-5.01) id ACE5EDE0146; Fri, 21 May 1999 05:52:37 EDT Subject: Re: Classic Reels Hank, et al,That was BIll Franke, of Conway, N.H.. The item was popular, I wish Ihadbought more before Bill mysteriously disappeared...Best regards,Reed Hank Holland wrote: Does anyone else remember that somebody made a replacement reel foot thing called a Pfleuger Pfoot?Regards,......Hank H. -----Original Message-----From: Bill Fink Date: Thursday, May 20, 1999 10:22 PMSubject: Classic Reels To the List'To you all, male and female, at least get the spelling correct. It is:PFLUEGERThanks. Bill from anglport@con2.com Fri May 21 07:59:54 1999 Subject: Re: Classic Reels Larry,John Orelle wrote Fly Reels of the Past in 1987. Anglers Art has acopylisted at $14.95 (paper). Steven K.Vernon also wrote Antique Fishing Reelswhich covers more than fly equipment, but it has quite a lot on that.That's out of print though (and 42 smackers at A.A.).Art At 11:39 PM 5/20/99 -0400, Larry Hilton wrote:While on the subject of classic fly reels.....can anyone out thererecommend any books specific to identifying and collecting fly reels. from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Fri May 21 08:40:50 1999 0400 Subject: Wayne C. I tried this morning to access Wayne's web site, in hopes of findingsomething there about rodmaking (a topic noteably absent from this listlately - it seems to have been abandoned in favor of nasty comments aboutGeorge Gehrke and chit chat about reel collecting), and found that Icouldn't open it. Maybe my bookmark is too out of date - though I used itsuccessfully three days ago. Does anybody have a current URL for theGrayrock page? from gl@msrr.dmso.mil Fri May 21 09:32:04 1999 triton.dmso.mil(8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA19326 for ;Fri, 21 May 1999 Subject: advice on tuning a record plane? fellow listers, i'm working on my first rod, and have gotten to the point of final planing.though i tuned my record 9 1/2 before i started, i'm having a problemgetting the strips down to the final taper. i'm fairly confident that ihave my form set to the proper depth. the plane seems to require nearconstant adjustment in order to get it to get it to the depth where i cantake off some cane, without having the blade catch on something. anyonehave advise on how to further improve the plane's performance? (or myperformance, for that matter).--------------------gary mischcdr, usn (ret.) from DARRELLL@earthlink.net Fri May 21 09:46:08 1999 Subject: Re[2]: Classic Reels boundary="=PMail:=_0008@@pZoyS2il5BgJ0wFCMWMg" --=PMail:=_0008@@pZoyS2il5BgJ0wFCMWMg Just called Anglers Art and they do not have a copy of Orelle's Fly Reelssof the Past... unfortunately... Darn... I wanted a copy too... Darrell=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ] Subject: Re: Classic Reels Larry,John Orelle wrote Fly Reels of the Past in 1987. Anglers Art has acopylisted at $14.95 (paper). Steven K.Vernon also wrote Antique Fishing Reelswhich covers more than fly equipment, but it has quite a lot on that.That's out of print though (and 42 smackers at A.A.).Art At 11:39 PM 5/20/99 -0400, Larry Hilton wrote:While on the subject of classic fly reels.....can anyone out thererecommend any books specific to identifying and collecting fly reels. --=PMail:=_0008@@pZoyS2il5BgJ0wFCMWMg-- from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Fri May 21 10:26:21 1999 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id KAA15002 for (8.8.4/8.6.8) withSMTP id KAA26000 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 Subject: Re: Rod taper theories I was setting my forms last night for a Dickerson 8013 taper, which I hope to have ready for the Hex hatch in a few weeks (gotta get going, I know; the hatch might be early this year.)Anyway, I thought I would look at tip dimensions with respect tothe recent discussion of tight loops. Bill Harm's idea, if I understand it correctly, is that the dimensionof the final foot or so of the rod should be Convex (the steepest taperclosest to the tip): Dim | *| *| *| *| *| *| *| *|-+----+----+----+---- +0 5 10 15 Inches from Tip The 8013 taper (the second version from Jack Howell's book) lookssomethinglike this curve, with the steepest taper close to the tip: Dist Dim Difference---------------------------0 0.054 5 0.083 0.029 from saweiss@flash.net Fri May 21 10:29:01 1999 Subject: Re: advice on tuning a record plane? fellow listers, i'm working on my first rod, and have gotten to the point of final planing.though i tuned my record 9 1/2 before i started, i'm having a problemgetting the strips down to the final taper. i'm fairly confident that ihave my form set to the proper depth. the plane seems to require nearconstant adjustment in order to get it to get it to the depth where i cantake off some cane, without having the blade catch on something. anyonehave advise on how to further improve the plane's performance? (or myperformance, for that matter).--------------------gary mischcdr, usn (ret.) Gary,Here are a few things that I do that may help you:1. put a radius on the corners of the plane blade to reduce some of thecatching or digging of the blade into the forms2. before adjusting, take the slack out of the adjusting knob in thedirection that you will be adjusting3. hold the cap iron in place with your left thumb while loosening thehold-down lever4. make a TINY adjustment to the blade depth and be sure the edge isparallel to the edge or the mouth of the sole opening. Adjust for finishshavings .003" or thinner5. tighten the cap iron screw so that the lever locks firmly6. close the mouth adjustment to just accept the shaving7. scrape the last few thousandths rather than plane Steve from SalarFly@aol.com Fri May 21 13:02:29 1999 Subject: Re: Rod taper theories I'm not sure how to reconcile these two. My gut reaction is that I like the Convex better than Concave, but I don't have enough experienceto judge wisely. Any takers? A big jump in diameter close to the tip is going to produce a tight loop. Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Fri May 21 13:06:42 1999 Subject: Re: advice on tuning a record plane? Groove your plane sole. That eliminates your plane blade catching on anythingexcept the bamboo spline. Darryl from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri May 21 18:58:18 1999 Subject: lathe work check this out.http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~chrish/techindx.htm from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri May 21 19:57:49 1999 Subject: Fwd: Please Read boundary="part1_2ac25a20.24775ac5_boundary" --part1_2ac25a20.24775ac5_boundary --part1_2ac25a20.24775ac5_boundary Full-name: Pittrout Subject: Please Read CharlJWms@aol.com, DrkLioness@aol.com, deddings@calpoly.edu,GatorFrog@aol.com, Gcaddis@aol.com, gene@astreet.com,GeneralFly@aol.com, BFHoopley@aol.com, Fshrfun@aol.com,backfrty@hdo.net, JLeal32181@aol.com, LesYoung@aol.com,Loscare@aol.com, MAPKO333@aol.com, MarciaTX@aol.com,STONEFLIE@aol.com, Loralie21@aol.com, PAMSRAM4X4@aol.com,DWeed29@aol.com, FBRowland@aol.com, Sabra101@aol.com,MissPam538@aol.com, Tinadana@aol.com, TKurtis@aol.com,Troutbum4@aol.com, buck@saber.net, JDEXPRNC@aol.com A friend sent the following to me:This is a pretty powerful piece. Just thought I'd share it withyou. Subject: 18-yr-old essayist's insight into the Colorado shooting from Where I Stand: A Teenager's Voice from Inside the Culture ofDeath On April 20, 1999, there was yet another gruesome shooting inLittleton,Colorado. Kids killing kids. And again, the entire nation in itsuproar istrying to figure out why. I am eighteen years old. I live in a small town near Madison,Wisconsin. A small town just like the ones where these horrifyingshootingsalways seem to take place. Every time those stories come on thetelevision, Ican't help but notice how easily it could be my small town next. AndI want toknow why this is happening just as badly as any parent or policechief oranchorman. The thing is, I am right in the middle of it. I am in the same agegroup as all of these high school kids. So I may have some insight world that has been otherwise unattainable since these shootingsstarted someyears ago. The night of the Littleton shooting, as I was flipping through thevarious news channels that were covering the story in Littleton,Colorado,I heard something that struck a chord in me. An anchorman wasinterviewingthe mother of a victim in the Jonesboro shooting. His question was:"Ifyou look at America in the 1950's, you will find that this kind ofthingnever happened; whereas if you look at America today, this kind ofthing isbecoming more and more frequent. Why do you think this ishappening?" The woman, of course, could not answer the question. In fact, shedidn't really even try. But I did. I thought about it for a longtime thatnight. And again the next morning, when my favorite morning radiotalkshow asked its listeners why they thought this has been happening. Many people said it's the parents of the kids. Many peoplesuggestedtelevision and video games. Many people even turned to popularmusicians, looking to put the blame somewhere. But I will tell you what I think it is. What I, a regular teenagerridingon the coattails of Generation X, blame it on. It is not the parentsor themovies or the rock stars. It is AMERICA. It is this culture ofdeath, this culture in which liberals and feminists and activistsare soanxious to let anything be "OK" that the once tightened, knottedrope of societyis unraveling right beneath us. Don't you see? There can be no order without discipline. All ofthose thingspeople think are causing children to run into a school and shoottheir teachers and peers and even kids they don't know--the movies,thevideo games, the parents, the rap artists - they are onlyREFLECTIONS ofour society. Society breaks down, from one big metaphoric "family"into 50 metaphoric "families" and so on and so on, until you havetheactual FAMILY, the one with the parents and the kids and the dog. Itis not onething or two things; it is the attitude of an entire "familiar"nation beingreflected back at us in the kids. Just as that anchorman suggested, something was different about the1950's.WE WERE CONSERVATIVE. We had boundaries; we had a definiteknowledge of right and wrong throughout the entire nation. We didn'thavefeminists pushing women so hard to go get a job that a woman whodidn't havea job was somehow "bad," thereby leaving kids at home withinadequateparental guidance and often times with parents who were trulyunhappy. We didn't have liberals fighting so avidly to legalize everythingthat itwas at the point of completely blurring the line between good andbad. We didn't have a nationwide media surge dedicated to sex andviolenceso intense that if you weren't playing killing video games at age14,then you were trying to choose between contraceptives beforehand orabortionafterwards. We didn't have disputes over whether or not we shouldhelp someone who is dying die sooner - over whether or not we should ASSIST them in committing SUICIDE. And we certainly didn't have aPresident who was in favor of NATO bombing and killing children inSerbia come on thetelevision to grieve the loss for the families of children killed inAmerica.We live in a loosely-tied society, a culture dedicated to death. Ifyoudon't want the kid, kill it. If you don't want to live out the restof yourGod-given days, kill yourself. Or better yet, have someone else comehelp youdo it. I guess, no matter how horrible or gruesome or gut-wrenching it may be, it was just a matter of time before someone got that killingas-a-means- to-an -end" idea stuck in their head for the part betweenbirth and death as well. Everything that happens in families andcities and states and countries is the mirror image of the bigpicture. We are falling apart as a society. Am I - some random normalteenager in Farmertown, U.S.A. - the only one who sees that? It'ssad and it'shard to believe, but what's worse is that it's scary. I think it'stime forour America's - Mom and Dad to ground us - to say, "If you don'tshapeup by the time I count to three..." And then really count to three.Becausewe are running wild and pretty soon we're going to be too far fromhome toever get back. There was once a great saying by a famous man that has rung truethroughoutthe history of mankind - in every family and in every society andin everysocial group and in every religion - it was a frighteningly truestatementthat cannot be disputed. I am reminded of it now, in the wake ofyet anotherindescribably tormenting result of a nation gone haywire..."Bytheir fruits you shall know them." April 21, 1999 --part1_2ac25a20.24775ac5_boundary-- from hiltonl@benzie.com Fri May 21 20:27:40 1999 (SMTPD32-4.07) id A87C77E8005C; Fri, 21 May 1999 21:29:32 EST RODMAKERS LIST Subject: RE: Classic reels and chit chat.....Wayne's Web Thanks to all who responded with some book titles on reel collecting.They're a help. from the chit chat ether, Seth, here is Wayne's Web Site http://www.WCattanachRodCo.com from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sat May 22 01:06:38 1999 (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP Sat, 22 May 1999 06:06:04 +0000 Subject: Re: Noel? I've never heard of a Noel reel before... from the posted picture, it lookslike a very nice reel. Is it currently in production? Any info would beappreciated. George Bourke -------------------------------While you are purging my email and spamming me,don't forget to include these people: Fraud Watch:fraudinfo@psinet.com Abuse.net: webmaster@abuse.netFederal Trade Commission: uce@ftc.govACCC: sweep.day@accc.gov.au Oh, and while you're at it,here's a taste of your own medicine! admin@loopback$LOGIN@localhost $LOGNAME@localhost $USER@localhost$USER@$HOST -h1024@localhost root@mailloop.com -----Original Message----- Subject: Noel? never on a Bastard! On Thu, 20 May 1999, Brian Sturrock wrote: Bastard rods and it's success or most probable demise ISrodmaking.GerkeDIDmention he was going to make BAMBOO rods. The current thread Cane &ReelsIS most definately related to Cane RM. I've actually enjoyed this threadeven without participating .I've found the different views on whatshouldgrace a Bamboo rod very entertaining. Personally I hang Hardys and a#8Maurice Noel + on mine.That being said without this thread I don'tthinkthat olde Plueger would have been brought out of the closet, invokingpleasant memories. Perhaps that noisy old piece of s-- t might hang on arodagain!!!!! And speaking of the Noel reels, if anyone wants a look at these beauties,I just today uploaded a pic of the smallest one to my site. http://www.geocities.com:80/Yosemite/Rapids/8393/Noel.jpg Cheers BrianPS anyone got a spare spool for a Hardy #6 multiplier ??? NG on the spool but I'll see if I can dig one up. Regards, BobFly Suppliesflysupplies@yahoo.com from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Sat May 22 06:04:14 1999 (rperry@bookworm.suffolk.lib.ny.us Subject: Re: Noel? On Fri, 21 May 1999, irish-george wrote: I've never heard of a Noel reel before... from the posted picture, it lookslike a very nice reel. Is it currently in production? Yes. Although, like bamboo rods and Bogdan reels, you also have to wait Any info would be appreciated. There's another pic on my website and more info: http://www.freeyellow.com/members4/flysupplies/ Regards, Bob George Bourke -------------------------------While you are purging my email and spamming me,don't forget to include these people: Fraud Watch:fraudinfo@psinet.com Abuse.net: webmaster@abuse.netFederal Trade Commission: uce@ftc.govACCC: sweep.day@accc.gov.au Oh, and while you're at it,here's a taste of your own medicine! admin@loopback$LOGIN@localhost $LOGNAME@localhost $USER@localhost$USER@$HOST -h1024@localhost root@mailloop.com -----Original Message-----From: Bob Perry Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Thursday, May 20, 1999 5:20 PMSubject: Noel? never on a Bastard! On Thu, 20 May 1999, Brian Sturrock wrote: Bastard rods and it's success or most probable demise ISrodmaking.GerkeDIDmention he was going to make BAMBOO rods. The current thread Cane&ReelsIS most definately related to Cane RM. I've actually enjoyed thisthreadeven without participating .I've found the different views on whatshouldgrace a Bamboo rod very entertaining. Personally I hang Hardys anda #8Maurice Noel + on mine.That being said without this thread I don'tthinkthat olde Plueger would have been brought out of the closet, invokingpleasant memories. Perhaps that noisy old piece of s-- t might hang onarodagain!!!!! And speaking of the Noel reels, if anyone wants a look at thesebeauties,I just today uploaded a pic of the smallest one to my site. http://www.geocities.com:80/Yosemite/Rapids/8393/Noel.jpg Cheers BrianPS anyone got a spare spool for a Hardy #6 multiplier ??? NG on the spool but I'll see if I can dig one up. Regards, BobFly Suppliesflysupplies@yahoo.com from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sat May 22 08:56:22 1999 Internet MailServer sims.3.5.1999.03.02.17.58.p5)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu;Sat, Subject: RE: Please Read Regarding your attachment, With all due respect, there are many countries in theworld that are MUCH more liberal than the UnitedStates. And yet, these countries do not suffer fromescalating school violence the way the U.S. does. Toblame the present trend of school shootings on liberalvalues is way off the mark. One major differencebetween the U.S. and other `liberal' countries, is theease in which guns can be purchased. Yea yea, I know, guns don't kill people, people do. Right. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Behalf Of Grhghlndr@aol.comSent: Friday, May 21, 1999 8:57 PM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Fwd: Please Read from protennisplayer@tennismail.com Sat May 22 09:16:26 1999 with ESMTP idKAA25572 Subject: Fishing or Molesting Fish http://flyfishing.about.com/library/weekly/aa052199.htmWAS LARRY DAHLBERG, ESPN TV Fishing Celeb,and partner of Flashabou,fishing, ormolesting fish?? Skeeter ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Get your free, personalized email address from CBS SportsLine: http://email.sportsline.com from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sat May 22 09:27:58 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Sat, 22 May 1999 09:27:54 -0500 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Davy Riggs - Cork Order Ron,I gave it my best shot, to no avail. I wrote a letter, andtried to call on the phone. No response. If someone putstogether another cork order, I'd like in on it. I think Davy'sorder is past hope of producing any cork.Harry Ron Kovalak wrote: Harry, Re: Cork Order with Davy Riggs (I'm at a point where Icould certainly use the cork.) I remember you saying in a March9 e-mail that you were going to try and contact Davy Riggs tosee if things were all right since we had not heard anything from him for a while. Can you tell me if you were able tocontact him? I hope all is well with Davy. from tomchandler@apexweb.com Sat May 22 09:29:27 1999 (SMTPD32-5.01) id ACE3D24018C; Sat, 22 May 1999 10:19:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Please Read Didn't you *just* post a message on this list telling everyone to stopposting about George G. because it wasn't related to actual road building.Then you post this? TC from Craig.Naldrett@ibm.net Sat May 22 10:53:12 1999 out2.ibm.net(8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA135002 for; Sat, 22 May 199915:53:07 GMT Subject: Phillipson 5WT Looking at building Phillipson 7' 5 wt, I see that Reed Curry recommendsa step down ferrule. Question is has anyone built this rod (& opinionson rod action would be appreciated)and used a step down ferrule or can a