Silk Green/ white tips Tonka Queen (1940's) not listed Tonka Queen (1950's) Reel seat---Green Tennite DLGrip---StraightStripper--PerfectionFerrules Chrome Plate Brass Hand weltSilk Gold/ Brown tips I do not believe any of the 2 pc rods had intermediates. I have a princessto which intermediates have been added. They are nylon, while theoriginalsare in silk. HandbookCentennial Publications-Grand Junction Colorado (1994) Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from WLBond@cps-satx.com Fri Jun 11 15:49:19 1999 199920:53:04 UT Subject: Bamboo supply Hi guys, I've never built a bamboo rod before but I'm going to try one as soon as Ican. I have a stand of several dozen pieces of bamboo where I live. Mostof it is 3/4 - 1 1/2" diam. I cut a couple pieces several weeks ago andhave let it dry. What's the best way to split it? How thick? How long?I've read a couple articles and they all mention big pieces and lathes. Iwant to do this by hand. Any suggestions?Bill from oakmere@carol.net Fri Jun 11 19:43:53 1999 Subject: RE: HI Tonka Queen Hi Folks: Thanks for the input on the Tonka Queen. Will use and continue to prepareto redo this one. FrankFrank Paul, GreyFox2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 29672fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work)oakmere@carol.net (home) from fiveside@net-gate.com Fri Jun 11 20:03:03 1999 ns1.net-gate.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA14330 for; Subject: PowerFibers To the List'I have to sign on with Darryl on this one. There seems to be a feelingamong makers that everything is sacred, power fibers, preserving identityofculm/strips, node spacing, on and on. (Garrison religion?). But then it isrevealed that makers don't even mike their products to see how well theyachieve their taper goals. How can a rod with ten thousanths differenceflat-to-flat be a good performer? I've miked classics with that muchdeltaand more (that's miked, not miced). And how can there be so muchconfusionas to which are the true valid classic tapers?. As my kids said, come on,dad, get real. Bill from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Fri Jun 11 20:17:41 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Fri, 11 Jun 1999 20:17:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Bamboo supply Bill,Where do you live that you have a stand of cane nearby? I'm inLouisiana,and have access to a great deal of the locally grown cane. In fact, just forkicks, I've got one fairly nice culm that I'm going to make a rod from, assoon as it dries out a little more. The nodes are awfully close together,soI'll probably cut them out and try a nodeless rod.If this is going to be your first rod, let me suggest that you take thesteps necessary to find some decent Tonkin cane. Your first attempt willrequire many hours, and you will probably want to save that first rod as amomento. Good cane is much easier to work with than poor cane.If there other rodmakers within a few hours drive, I suspect that youcantalk one of them into parting with a piece for you to use for your first rod.If you're near me, I'll be glad to get you a culm.Good luck,Harry Bond, William L wrote: Hi guys,I've never built a bamboo rod before but I'm going to try one as soon as Ican. I have a stand of several dozen pieces of bamboo where I live. Mostof it is 3/4 - 1 1/2" diam. I cut a couple pieces several weeks ago andhave let it dry. What's the best way to split it? How thick? How long?I've read a couple articles and they all mention big pieces and lathes. Iwant to do this by hand. Any suggestions?Bill from freaner@gte.net Fri Jun 11 21:33:34 1999 Subject: Re: Bamboo supply At 8:14 PM -0500 on 6/11/99, Harry Boyd wrote: Bill,Where do you live that you have a stand of cane nearby? I'm inLouisiana,and have access to a great deal of the locally grown cane. In fact, justforkicks, I've got one fairly nice culm that I'm going to make a rod from, assoon as it dries out a little more. The nodes are awfully close together,soI'll probably cut them out and try a nodeless rod. Speaking of locally grown stuff...I'm headed back to Williamsburg, VA, next week on business. Last time I was there I noticed a large stand of bamboo next to the Cascades Restaurant near the visitor's center. The mature culms are 40 or more feet tall, around 4 inches across at the base, and have nodes around 15 or more inches apart after the first 6 feet or so. Near the path around it, several culms have been cut back because they were encroaching on the trail. The cut stump seemed to me to have very small tightly spaced fibers near the enamel. Does this sound like something that might be used for a rod? Claudefreaner@gte.net from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Fri Jun 11 23:34:36 1999 mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net(InterMail v03.02.07.06 118-133) with SMTP Subject: the Planing Form Where might I buy a copy of "The best of The Planing Form"?Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Jun 12 01:28:50 1999 Subject: Rod Making Masking Tape I have used masking tape that was supposed to notleave any residue when removed before, but theywere never sticky enough to stay stuck. I am usinga new type (at least new for me) that really does a good job. It's blue and made by Scotch 3M. It's called Long-Mask masking tape. It stays stuck, and it really doesn't leave any sticky residue when removed.Very useful for rod making. Darryl from angelruten@smile.ch Sat Jun 12 04:13:50 1999 (MET DST) Subject: Wheres John? Dear friends since days try to contact John Lintvet and the munrorodcomp. Is he stillin business? thanks for all answers Stefan from janmel@nefcom.net Sat Jun 12 06:52:52 1999 HAA26250 Subject: 4 corners & NM I'm leaving FL to drive to NM on the 20th. Hope to fish in the DoloresRiver in CO, too. Can any of you direct me to the best website forcurrent info or do any of you know how the fishing has been there thisyear? Mel from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Jun 12 07:17:13 1999 Subject: Re: PowerFibers Bill,if all on the list were building to the Garrison book there would be nodiscussions because we would all be building the same rods.The list has evolved over time and the references to Garrison and Garrisontypesare hardly ever mentioned. We are not building Garrison rods we arebuilding'our' rods and they should all be different. We all think that our techniquesare the best because we have developed them over the years and they work I would not use woodworkers glue, chrome guides and epoxy on the wraps.To mealso the area where the cane is the most dense is also special. Otherbuildershave there own ideas of what is important to them, which is just how itshouldbe.I can remember attending a rod makers gathering years ago and we all had cast eachothers rods which were all "gorgeous". They were simple times. We havealldeveloped our own signatures now based on experience and what we thinka goodfly rod should be.Regarding rods that do not measure out the same on each of the 3 flats. Itisvery hard to get this to happen especially on the butt section with the theequipment that is in general use. If one strip happens to to slip in by .010itshould not be regarded as a problem, for if all the strips were accuratethenyou will still have a rod that will perform as expected. Now, if you decidebysome vain notion that this is not good enough and remove .010 from theother 2flats then I think you will introduce problems.It is what you start of with that is important. A pound of apples is still apound of apples no matter how you arrange them.TerryBill Fink wrote: To the List'I have to sign on with Darryl on this one. There seems to be a feelingamong makers that everything is sacred, power fibers, preserving culm/strips, node spacing, on and on. (Garrison religion?). But then it isrevealed that makers don't even mike their products to see how welltheyachieve their taper goals. How can a rod with ten thousanths differenceflat-to-flat be a good performer? I've miked classics with that muchdeltaand more (that's miked, not miced). And how can there be so muchconfusionas to which are the true valid classic tapers?. As my kids said, come on,dad, get real. Bill from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sat Jun 12 08:09:27 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Sat, 12 Jun 1999 08:09:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Bamboo supply Claude,It does sound okay, but I don't want you to get the idea that I'madvocatinganything but top quality Tonkin for rodmaking. What I'm doing with theLouisianacane is just an experiment, and just for fun. I should have it finished fortheSouthern Rodmakers Gathering this fall. We'll let a bunch of guys try itout, thenpost the results. Harry Claude Freaner wrote: Does this sound like something that might be used for a rod? Claudefreaner@gte.net from angelruten@smile.ch Sat Jun 12 08:45:30 1999 (MET DST) Subject: Thanks Thanks for the prompt replies about John Sincerly Stefan from HARMS1@prodigy.net Sat Jun 12 09:11:25 1999 Sat, 12 Jun 1999 10:11:20 -0400 Subject: Re: PowerFibers boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0057_01BEB4BB.BB38D2E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0057_01BEB4BB.BB38D2E0 Bill,Oh well. I guess everyone will do his own thing in this hobby. Some =guys are more in love with the idea of simply building their own rod =than with its actual performance. Some guys don't know good cane from =bad, and some don't care. Some guys don't know "good performance" from =mediocre, and don't care. Moreover, what is "good" for one caster, may = Some guys think Garrison is God, and others couldn't care less about his =advice. Some guys believe there is such a thing as "true and valid =classic tapers," and others develop their own. As with everything else, =some guys really know what they're doing, and others don't (even without =knowing they don't know). All of the above are members of this list, =and the opinions will vary accordingly. The important thing is for each =of us to listen to one another, and then to learn from our own = be learned only through dedicated and long experience -- if one cares =enough to pay attention to what he's trying to do. Cheers, Bill -----Original Message----- Subject: PowerFibers To the List'I have to sign on with Darryl on this one. There seems to be a =feelingamong makers that everything is sacred, power fibers, preserving = culm/strips, node spacing, on and on. (Garrison religion?). But then it =isrevealed that makers don't even mike their products to see how well =theyachieve their taper goals. How can a rod with ten thousanths differenceflat-to-flat be a good performer? I've miked classics with that much =deltaand more (that's miked, not miced). And how can there be so much =confusionas to which are the true valid classic tapers?. As my kids said, come =on, ------=_NextPart_000_0057_01BEB4BB.BB38D2E0 Bill, Some = Some guys think = such a thing as "true and valid classic tapers," and others = above are members of this list, and the opinions will vary = The important thing is for each of us to listen to one another, and then = only more or less= procedures and tolerances, and these can be learned only = and long experience -- if one cares enough to pay attention to what he's = to do. Bill -----Original Message-----From:= <fiveside@net- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Friday, June 11, 1999 6:06 PMSubject: = = ------=_NextPart_000_0057_01BEB4BB.BB38D2E0-- from DARRELLL@earthlink.net Sat Jun 12 09:35:12 1999 Subject: Fwd: Re: FW: Great Western boundary="=PMail:=_0000@@2RVZGrjySJrxWmWKHnj9" --=PMail:=_0000@@2RVZGrjySJrxWmWKHnj9 To List & Chuck, Bishop... A GREAT place!!! Eric Shott's (Shatt's??) Bakery... probablyone of the best bakery's in California... incredible breads! Love thatJalapeno/Cheese bread! Hotels are not too expensive starting from about $30/nite and there isplenty of free primitive camping (no water, benches.. no nuthin'... primiti=ve,hedonistic fish dances around massive bonfires encouraged... with thehelp of copious amounts of alcohol to fuel the participants) or thereare lots of developed camp sites and a RV park ($15+/-) with hookupsavaila=ble. Pay camp sites gets you a waterfront camp sites. For example... atPleasan=tValley Reservoir Campgrounds gets you right on the Owens River for about$6/nite... Free camping in the Pionion Forest on Forest Service land closeto the Owens Gorge for the economically challenged. Stay 14 nites free... A good time could be had for the cost of transportation, food, libations,fishing license (day licenses available) if you are a little adventurous. Bishop Creek, Owens River, Rock Creek, Horton Creek, Crowley Lake tubin...heck, you can even catch fish in front of peoples houses!!! There's anirrigation ditch that runs along the Bishop Creek Rd and I've seen fishin there! If a gathering were to happen in winter, that would greatlyreduce the fishing locations however... World class rockclimbing for the more adventurous and non verticallychalle=nged . Those wanting some physical exercise , world class mountaineeringascents= abound. Plenty of First Winter Ascents available for the ice axe,crampons,= rope and rack crowd. =A fall or winter gathering would be grand... I vote for a Chili Cookoffand a Home Brew challenge... Chuck, if a gathering forms... I'd help too! =Then perhaps some of the talented casters of the list woud share withus first hand, some cures to our limp wristed, hat snagging castingbumblin=gmistakes... Oh, maybe we can also talk cane without using the fingers... How about a head count... How many makers would like to escape thewintersnows and spend a few days in California in a stupor under the guise ofCane and Trout??? Darrell=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ] Subject: FW: Great Western I learned to fly fish on those waters. Caught my first trout on a flyrodup on Bishop Creek. I live in Oregon now, but the Bishop area would beanice place for a gathering! -Randy Brewer -----Original Message----- Subject: Great Western To all interested in a gathering in the Eastern Sierras, Bishop areathis fall or winter, Holler. I now live just North of Bishop and wouldcertainly entertain the idea of doing alot of the leg work for such agathering. Lots of fishes in the Owens and it is open all year. Tight lines, Chuck --=PMail:=_0000@@2RVZGrjySJrxWmWKHnj9-- from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Sat Jun 12 09:57:44 1999 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id JAA20373 for (8.8.4/8.6.8) withSMTP id JAA06247 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 Subject: Re: PowerFibers Well said, Bill. I'm glad this list has people who practice the whole range of styles, from classic blued nickle silver ferrules to electrical tape to ChevySuburban length rod cases. Sometimes we beginners ask questions which fly in the face ofestablished wisdom, and question the sacredness of the outer powerfibers or the practicality of nickel silver ferrules. Its nice to get the range of responses and opinions. For me a lot of the fun in building rods is the experimentation with all the variables. I've never tied two flies exactly alike, you can't expect me to build two rods alike. And I still think nickel silver ferrules are impractical.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Fri, 11 Jun 1999, Bill Fink wrote: To the List'I have to sign on with Darryl on this one. There seems to be a feelingamong makers that everything is sacred, power fibers, preserving culm/strips, node spacing, on and on. from RVenneri@aol.com Sat Jun 12 10:43:41 1999 Subject: Re: 4 corners & NM MelHere is a friends web site that lives very close to NM. Smallstreams.comIts a great website. Best regards,Bob VVenneri's21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882http://members.aol.com/Venneris/home.html from jczimny@dol.net Sat Jun 12 11:46:55 1999 -0400 "RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: RE: Rod Making Masking Tape I have learned from automobile refinishers that the trick with maskingtape is to makesure that you have fresh tape. Fresh tape leaves no residue.John Z -----Original Message----- Subject: Rod Making Masking Tape I have used masking tape that was supposed to notleave any residue when removed before, but theywere never sticky enough to stay stuck. I am usinga new type (at least new for me) that really does a good job. It's blue and made by Scotch 3M. It's called Long-Mask masking tape. It stays stuck, and it really doesn't leave any sticky residue when removed.Very useful for rod making. Darryl from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Jun 12 12:27:20 1999 Subject: Re: RE: Rod Making Masking Tape Heed john Zimny's advice as to fresh tape. When I worked in the body shop many years ago we always made sure we had fesh tape on hand and wenever left it on very long to be exposed to the eliments. Brown masking tape is terrible stuff to remove if it has gotten to the sun or sat very long with paint on it. The new blue tapes will take exposure to the eliments and can be removed later with great success but I will stick to mainly the brown tapes as they have better qualities for sticking to themselves. Try to recycle your tape every couple of months. if it is old throw it out it doesn't cost that much.Bret from rclarke@eou.edu Sat Jun 12 14:39:50 1999 13:04:28 -0700 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: RE: Re: FW: Great Western Throw my hat in the ring. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu -----Original Message----- Subject: Fwd: Re: FW: Great Western To List & Chuck, Bishop... A GREAT place!!! Eric Shott's (Shatt's??) Bakery... probablyone of the best bakery's in California... incredible breads! Love thatJalapeno/Cheese bread! Hotels are not too expensive starting from about $30/nite and there isplenty of free primitive camping (no water, benches.. no nuthin'...primitive,hedonistic fish dances around massive bonfires encouraged... with thehelp of copious amounts of alcohol to fuel the participants) or thereare lots of developed camp sites and a RV park ($15+/-) with hookupsavailable. Pay camp sites gets you a waterfront camp sites. For example... atPleasantValley Reservoir Campgrounds gets you right on the Owens River for about$6/nite... Free camping in the Pionion Forest on Forest Service land closeto the Owens Gorge for the economically challenged. Stay 14 nites free... A good time could be had for the cost of transportation, food, libations,fishing license (day licenses available) if you are a little adventurous. Bishop Creek, Owens River, Rock Creek, Horton Creek, Crowley Lake tubin...heck, you can even catch fish in front of peoples houses!!! There's anirrigation ditch that runs along the Bishop Creek Rd and I've seen fishin there! If a gathering were to happen in winter, that would greatlyreduce the fishing locations however... World class rockclimbing for the more adventurous and non verticallychallenged . Those wanting some physical exercise , world class mountaineeringascentsabound. Plenty of First Winter Ascents available for the ice axe, crampons,rope and rack crowd. A fall or winter gathering would be grand... I vote fora ChiliCookoffand a Home Brew challenge... Chuck, if a gathering forms... I'd help too! Then perhaps some of thetalented castersof the list woud share withus first hand, some cures to our limp wristed, hat snagging castingbumblingmistakes... Oh, maybe we can also talk cane without using the fingers... How about a head count... How many makers would like to escape thewintersnows and spend a few days in California in a stupor under the guise ofCane and Trout??? Darrell======================================== ] Subject: FW: Great Western I learned to fly fish on those waters. Caught my first trout on a flyrodup on Bishop Creek. I live in Oregon now, but the Bishop area would beanice place for a gathering! -Randy Brewer -----Original Message----- Subject: Great Western To all interested in a gathering in the Eastern Sierras, Bishop areathis fall or winter, Holler. I now live just North of Bishop and wouldcertainly entertain the idea of doing alot of the leg work for such agathering. Lots of fishes in the Owens and it is open all year. Tight lines, Chuck from Craig.Naldrett@ibm.net Sat Jun 12 14:40:11 1999 out1.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA204478 for;Sat, 12 Jun 1999 19:40:07 GMT Subject: Hexrod MS Works Format Has anyone managed to download Hexrod (where is latest version?) &used/converted it to MS Works WK1 format, I don't have Excel available.ThanksCraig from MasjC1@aol.com Sat Jun 12 15:26:29 1999 Subject: Third Annual Open House and East Fork Arkansas Fish Census Rodmakers List, In keeping with a long established tradition, Judy and I would like toinvite any interested members of Rodmakers to join us for the Third Annual Open House and East Fork of the Arkansas Fish Census. This year the event is scheduled for Saturday, July 24th. For the last two years we have had an open house for all the members and friends of Aurora Anglers Chapter ofTrout Unlimited, of which I am a past president. This year we would like toextend an invitation to the members of Rodmakers. We have access toapproximately 1.5 miles of private water on the East Fork of the Arkansas River. Bring your bamboo rods and challenge the 13-14 inch browns on the East Fork. Once we are done fishing, or while fishing, we can compare notes on rodsand construction techniques. I will have four new 4 wt rods -- a 3 piece Sir Darryl Favorite, a Driggs River, Garrisons favorite the 201 and Wayne's 6'3" modified to the Sir Darryl Favorite taper. We will provide lunch and if people want to arrive early or stay over wehave lots of floor space and/or camping room. Lunch, I'm afraid, will not be as grand as last year when the Grabieks showed up with fresh caught Alaska salmon and halibut, but no one will go hungry on hamburgers and hot dogs. We are easy to find, just north of Leadville on Lake County 99. Theaddress is 27 Daisy Drive. from Leadville go north on US 24, turn west on Lake County 99 (Grand West Estates Sign) and turn south on Daisy Drivefollowed by an immediate left into the driveway. If you have any questions we can be contacted: Mark and Judy Cole (Till July 10)281-343-0779 (H)713-432-2783 (O)E-mail masjc1@aol.com (H)colemr@texaco.com (O) 27 Daisy Drive (July 10 to July 30)Leadville, CO 80461719-486-9049 Hope to see all of you in July. Mark and Judy Cole from destinycon@mindspring.com Sat Jun 12 15:55:29 1999 Subject: Re: PowerFibers Frank,OK, I'll bite. What is practical?Gary H. At 09:57 AM 6/12/99 -0500, Frank Stetzer wrote:And I still think nickel silver ferrules are impractical. from Bambull@webtv.net Sat Jun 12 17:34:35 1999 1.iap.bryant.webtv.net 162.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with 162.iap.bryant.webtv.net(8.8.8/po.gso.24Feb98) id PAA24139; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 15:34:33 -0700 ETAsAhQAucThySBUaVGGPUMVLlidfTnUfAIUIEClMmw/Wyn18rJZQ4f1U+UPyZo= Subject: Atlas/ Craftsman lathe Anyone interested in a late model Atlas/ Craftsman 6 inch metal lathe,please contact me off list. Can deliver to Grayling.Al from fiveside@net-gate.com Sat Jun 12 18:18:30 1999 ns1.net-gate.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA19921 for; Subject: Off the Subject To the List,Perhaps a bit off the subject but still pertaining to fishing. As a flytyer for 65 years I have a drawer full of bobbins that cut the thread due towear and dropping on hard floors. Have never been able to fix them whenthisoccurs. Would be nice to turn them over to a fly tying class or somethingifsomeone out there had a neat fix for this problem. Thanks. Bill from dmanders@telusplanet.net Sat Jun 12 18:27:19 1999 don") bysmtp2.telusplanet.net with SMTP id ; Sat, 12 Jun 199917:27:13 - 0600 Subject: Re: Off the Subject Bill. I've had some luck overhauling the tips using a medium felt and jewelersrouge. The medium felt seems to go far enough into the tip to smooth it.The jewelers rouge is tough to get out of the tube after - usually works.Another solution is to swag out the tip and mount a glass bead in it withsuper-glue. Don At 07:14 PM 6/12/99 -0400, Bill Fink wrote:To the List,Perhaps a bit off the subject but still pertaining to fishing. As a flytyer for 65 years I have a drawer full of bobbins that cut the thread duetowear and dropping on hard floors. Have never been able to fix them whenthisoccurs. Would be nice to turn them over to a fly tying class or somethingifsomeone out there had a neat fix for this problem. Thanks. Bill from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sat Jun 12 19:05:38 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Sat, 12 Jun 1999 19:05:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Off the Subject Bill,I tried running a piece of cotton string (even used 20 lb backing once)through the bobbin tube, coating the string with jeweler's rouge andrubbing theheck out of it for a few minutes. I've never had one yet that I couldn'trevive. Hope this helps,Harry BoydPS - Yell if you need a little jeweler's rouge. I bought a pound from aDentalSupply store. That's enough for several lifetimes. Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: Bill. I've had some luck overhauling the tips using a medium felt and jewelersrouge. The medium felt seems to go far enough into the tip to smooth it.The jewelers rouge is tough to get out of the tube after - usually works.Another solution is to swag out the tip and mount a glass bead in it withsuper-glue. Don At 07:14 PM 6/12/99 -0400, Bill Fink wrote:To the List,Perhaps a bit off the subject but still pertaining to fishing. As a flytyer for 65 years I have a drawer full of bobbins that cut the thread duetowear and dropping on hard floors. Have never been able to fix them whenthisoccurs. Would be nice to turn them over to a fly tying class orsomething ifsomeone out there had a neat fix for this problem. Thanks. Bill from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Jun 12 21:19:57 1999 (8.8.5/8.7.3)with ESMTP id VAA22954; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 21:20:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Off the Subject Bill,I have had luck with a mounted cone shape rubber type material found in apolishing kit for Dermal type tools. It is bullet shape and dark gray incolor.The last ones I got at W-- M---.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Bill Fink wrote: To the List,Perhaps a bit off the subject but still pertaining to fishing. As a flytyer for 65 years I have a drawer full of bobbins that cut the thread duetowear and dropping on hard floors. Have never been able to fix them whenthisoccurs. Would be nice to turn them over to a fly tying class or somethingifsomeone out there had a neat fix for this problem. Thanks. Bill from DavidM5708@aol.com Sat Jun 12 21:48:42 1999 Subject: Arend update 6/12 Howdy Rodmakers: Just trying to prevent any disappointments so am trying to provide regular updates on the available inventory. Remember please to contact me at llohman@juno.com or 303.794.3827. Thanks and good fishing, Lori AREND ROD SHOP - MATERIALS INVENTORY MATERIALS Description RodsSpinning or casting rods45" glass, needs repairmisc spinning rod sections Other MaterialsNo 18xxxx Reg. Laboratory Corks @500Barnstite envelopeRouge envelopeSolder Wrapping finish bottle THREADBelding Silk A (50 -100 yd. spools)Blue - 1 + spoolsBright pink - 1 spoolsPurple - 1Green - 1 spoolslt. Green - 2 + spoolsdk Green - 2 spoolsOlive Green - 2 spoolsPurple - 1 spoolbright deep pink - 1 spoolmauve - 2 spoolsmaroon - 1 spoolssalmon - 2 spoolsBrown - 1 spoolsBlack - 1 spoolFortisan 00, 3/4 wt. (925 yd spools) Tan - 20Red - 24Maroon - 18 plus 2 partialWhite - 2 amost full spoolsYellow - 1 spoolGudebrod Bros. Silk 00 (50 yd. spools)Maroon - 1 spoolOrange - 1 spoolsGuide-Wind Silk (50 yd. spools)Purple - 3 spoolsYellow - 1 spoolsOrange - 1 spoolsRices Silk - 00 (50 yd. spools)Red -color 111 1 spoolsred color 114 2 spoolsBlue color 23 - 1 spoolsOrange color 109 - 17 spoolsRices Silk (925 yd. spools)color # 1841 00 machine silk Lt. Green - 16 spools AREND ROD SHOP - TOOL INVENTORY TOOL Description Tools listed are either antique or unique to rodmaking. Other hand toolsare availableAlso benches. Belt driven drill press (antique) with new leather beltBlow torch, kerosene, antique 1Cane cutting/milling machine 9' by 17" wide - 1930 classic on a cast iron lathe bed (about 2500 lbs), 10 taper forms, carbide cutters, will cost $500to get off site, heavy movers needed with 3/4 HP motor. Photo at http://www.bambooflyrods.com/arend/mill.jpgCenter punch - various 5Combination square 9" (2) 1 with antique levelCork grip tools variousElectrically heated hydraulic straightening press- channel iron, can be cut into 2 sections, 6 pistons, steel platens (4), needs bleed valve repair will need professional moving, est. $350 to get off site/. See photo at http://www.bambooflyrods.com/arend/straightener.jpg and http://www.bambooflyrods.com/arend/straightenerside.jpgHand drill (antique) 12"Hand drill (antique) 17"Hand drill (antique) 18"Hand drill (antique) 9"Hand drill (antique) 12"Hand dryer (antique) 1Motor driven drum sander 1Needle file set Great Neck 6 pc, 5 1/2"Nicholson files boxedNumbering dies 0-9 boxed setO2 gage and pressure dial with tank of compressed argonOhaus box weights 1-200 gramOilstone in caseSanding drums 3 sizesSaw, circular (antique) 1Vacuum dust collector for mill with 1/2 HP motorVarnish diptube, heated with extra tubes. See photo at http://www.bambooflyrods.com/arend/diptube.jpgVarnish mixer for use w/diptube 1 J.T. LOHMAN - MISCELLANEOUS INVENTORY ITEM Books and MiscellanyHow to Fish Good, Milford (Stanley) Poltroon, 1971Sport Fishing USA, U.S. Fish and Wildlife ServiceSecrets of Successful Fishing, Henry Shakespeare, 1966Fishing Tackle and Techniques, Dick Wolff, 1961A Modern Dry-Fly Code, Vincent C. Marinaro, 1970 (to John from Al) 1st ed.Trout, Ernest Schwiebert (2 vols), 1978 1st editionThe Official Colorado Fishing and Hunting Guide, 1962-63, Tim Kelley, ed.The Official Colorado Fishing and Hunting Guide, 1966-67, Tim Kelley, ed.The Official Colorado Fishing and Hunting Guide, 1968-69, Tim Kelley, ed.The Official Colorado Fishing and Hunting Guide, 1970-71, Tim Kelley, ed.Colorado Recreation Guide, 5th editionA Look Back, A 65 Year History of the Colorado Game and Fish Dept., 1961Fishermen's Digest, Erwin A. Bauer, ed., 8th anniversary ed. CatalogsAmerican Machinist--December 16, 1946--May 1, 1940Brown & Sharpe Small Tools, 1924Brown & Sharpe Shop Tool Manual, 8/76Carbology-- Turning - n.d--Milling - n.d.--All-in-one - n.d--Tool Manual - June 1941Cook's Stream Guide and Fishing Manual, 1937Landis Thread Tips July 1946M.L. Foss, Inc., 1935 hardboundMachinery, July 1940Zelenda Metric, 1970 Magazines and JournalsColorado Outdoors--v. 7, no. 3, May-June 1958--v. 8, nos. 3 & 5, 1959--v. 9, nos. 1, 2, 1960--v. 10, nos. 1 & 3-6, 1961--v. 11, nos. 2-4, 6, 1962--v. 12, nos. 1-2, 4-6, 1963--v. 13, nos. 1-6, 1964--v. 14, nos. 1-6, 1965--v. 15, nos. 1-6, 1966--v. 16, nos. 1-6, 1967--v. 17, nos. 1- 6, 1968--v. 18, nos. 1-6, 1969--v. 19, nos. 1-6, 1970--v. 20, nos. 1-6, 1971--v. 21, nos. 1-6, 1972--v. 22, nos. 1-6, 1973--v. 23, nos. 1-6, 1974-- v. 24, nos. 1-6, 1975--v. 25, nos. 1-6, 1976 (2 ea. 1, 2, 4, 5)--v. 26, nos. 1- 6, 1977--v. 27, nos. 1-6, 1978--v. 28, nos. 1-6, 1979--v. 29, nos. 1-6, 1980--v. 30, nos. 1-3, 1981 Fly Fisherman--v. 4, no. 6, June/July 1973--v. 5, nos. 4, 5, 6, 7, 1974--v. 6, nos. 1-7, 1974-75 (2 ea. #6, 7)--v. 7, nos. 1-7 1975-76 (2 ea. #2, 3, 5)--v. 8, nos. 1-7, 1976-77--v. 9, nos. 1-7, 1977-78--v. 10, nos. 1-7, 1978-79--v. 11, nos. 1-6, 1979-80--v. 12, nos. 1-6, 1980-81--v. 13, nos. 1-6, 1981-82- -v. 14, nos. 1-6, 1982-83 (2 #2)--v. 15, nos. 1-6, 1983-84--v. 16, nos. 1- 6, 1984-85--1985 Buyer's Guide--v. 17, nos. 1-4, 1985-86Modern Machine Shop, May 1937Progress-National Tool and Die Journal, June 1940Field and Stream--December 1981--January-December 1982Outdoor Life, October 1975Outdoor Life, October 1984Montana Outdoors--vol 8, nos 2, 5-7, 1977- -vol 9, nos 1-3 from lblan@provide.net Sat Jun 12 23:48:59 1999 Subject: RE: Rod Making Masking Tape The real secret is to buy "paint grade" masking tape. I purchase two typesat work, one for use by our body shop (the expensive stuff) and another(less expensive) for general use throughout all of our facilities. Thehigher quality tape works just fine, is designed not to leave residue, andit's easier to write on for some of our purposes. With my quality manager hat on, our Quality System requires a "first-in,first- out" process for the body shop tape to ensure that fresh tape issupplied to our body shop. And last, if the tape has been sitting on a storeshelf for a long time prior to your purchase, it isn't fresh! Larry -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, June 12, 1999 11:07 AM Subject: RE: Rod Making Masking Tape I have learned from automobile refinishers that the trick withmasking tape is to make sure that you have fresh tape. Fresh tapeleaves no residue.John Z -----Original Message-----From: SalarFly@aol.com [SMTP:SalarFly@aol.com]Sent: Saturday, June 12, 1999 2:28 AM Subject: Rod Making Masking Tape I have used masking tape that was supposed to notleave any residue when removed before, but theywere never sticky enough to stay stuck. I am usinga new type (at least new for me) that really does agood job. It's blue and made by Scotch 3M. It's calledLong-Mask masking tape. It stays stuck, and it reallydoesn't leave any sticky residue when removed.Very useful for rod making. Darryl from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sun Jun 13 09:08:28 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0500 Subject: Rod for kids Friends,I'm soon to start on a rod for my 10 year old nephew. He'snever fly fished before, so I want to start him off right. I'mconsidering the Sir D Favorite. Do any of you have suggestionsconcerning what might be a good rod for a beginning younster? Thanks,Harry from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sun Jun 13 09:09:38 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0500 Subject: Leonard Tournament? Another question, since the list seems a little slow. Are any ofyou familiar with a 7.5' 5 weight Leonard Tournament? If so, howwould you describe its action?Harry from jkcerise@rof.net Sun Jun 13 13:19:26 1999 Subject: Cork Source To the List,Recently I have noted a few postings regarding Cork and itsscarcity, quality and availability. I have found a source for cork thatsome of you might be interested in checking out. I have purchased corkfromthis company for a few years and found the quality to be excellent,availability to be acceptable and the owner a pleasure to deal with. Whatmore could I ask?At the risk of deluging my own cork source with too many orders andthe result being a future scarcity for my own needs, in the interest of allof us rodmakers, I would like to pass on the name of this source. I have nointerest in his sales except that I ask you to leave me some good qualitycork now and then!! This dealer is Mr. John Bradford, owner of the J. A.Bradford Company at 3700 Lawndale, Ft. Worth, Texas 76133 -- 817-292-3324.Again, this is in the interest of rodmakers in general, not in mine at all.If you have a need for good cork, please give John a ring and check it out.I think that you will find what you need. Regards, John jkcerise@rof.netColorado Custom RodsJohn K. Cerise970-963-2795 v/f from Craig.Naldrett@ibm.net Sun Jun 13 19:04:05 1999 (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA42910 for; Mon, 14 Jun 199900:03:51 GMT = ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BEB70E.77BC3200--From: Craig Naldrett Subject: More On Tape For Rookies Info so nobody makes the same mistake! While watching F1 race today &binding strips for heat treating forgot to remove masking tape while Ibound strips. Other than being a pain to remove later(Acetone helped)tape left very distinct stripe on heated strips (i.e. lighter thandarkened cane). Two areas will be cut off after final planing etc. butone is right in the middle of tip & butt sections. Oh well it will beeasy to identify this rod as mine.CheersCraig from cattanac@wmis.net Mon Jun 14 07:40:36 1999 mail4.wmis.net (8.8.8/SCO5) with SMTP id IAA02970 for; Mon, 08:28:51 -0400 Subject: RE: More On Tape For Rookies Craig -Later after the strips are glued and sanded for finishing you can dothe 'Flickof the Bic' trick to darken any visual differances. The intent isn't to burnthe bamboobut rather to soot it over and then spread the soot with a finger to tone.The soot islayed on the rod section by running it through the flame of the lighter -causing theflame to become smokey and deposit soot. when done properly you willnever be able todetect the areas of your concern - trust me - it works Wayne from brewer@teleport.com Mon Jun 14 09:58:02 1999 "hamachi"via SMTP by relay1.teleport.com, id smtpdAAA0JvhZz; Mon Jun 1407:57:51 1999 0700 Subject: FW: FW: Great Western Ditto for me! -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: FW: Great Western Throw my hat in the ring. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu -----Original Message----- Subject: Fwd: Re: FW: Great Western To List & Chuck, Bishop... A GREAT place!!! Eric Shott's (Shatt's??) Bakery... probablyone of the best bakery's in California... incredible breads! Love thatJalapeno/Cheese bread! Hotels are not too expensive starting from about $30/nite and there isplenty of free primitive camping (no water, benches.. no nuthin'...primitive,hedonistic fish dances around massive bonfires encouraged... with thehelp of copious amounts of alcohol to fuel the participants) or thereare lots of developed camp sites and a RV park ($15+/-) with hookupsavailable. Pay camp sites gets you a waterfront camp sites. For example... atPleasantValley Reservoir Campgrounds gets you right on the Owens River for about$6/nite... Free camping in the Pionion Forest on Forest Service land closeto the Owens Gorge for the economically challenged. Stay 14 nites free... A good time could be had for the cost of transportation, food, libations,fishing license (day licenses available) if you are a little adventurous. Bishop Creek, Owens River, Rock Creek, Horton Creek, Crowley Lake tubin...heck, you can even catch fish in front of peoples houses!!! There's anirrigation ditch that runs along the Bishop Creek Rd and I've seen fishin there! If a gathering were to happen in winter, that would greatlyreduce the fishing locations however... World class rockclimbing for the more adventurous and non verticallychallenged Those wanting some physical exercise , world class mountaineeringascentsabound. Plenty of First Winter Ascents available for the ice axe, crampons,rope and rack crowd. A fall or winter gathering would be grand... I vote fora ChiliCookoffand a Home Brew challenge... Chuck, if a gathering forms... I'd help too! Then perhaps some of thetalented castersof the list woud share withus first hand, some cures to our limp wristed, hat snagging castingbumblingmistakes... Oh, maybe we can also talk cane without using the fingers... How about a head count... How many makers would like to escape thewintersnows and spend a few days in California in a stupor under the guise ofCane and Trout??? Darrell======================================== ] Subject: FW: Great Western I learned to fly fish on those waters. Caught my first trout on a flyrodup on Bishop Creek. I live in Oregon now, but the Bishop area would beanice place for a gathering! -Randy Brewer -----Original Message----- Subject: Great Western To all interested in a gathering in the Eastern Sierras, Bishop areathis fall or winter, Holler. I now live just North of Bishop and wouldcertainly entertain the idea of doing alot of the leg work for such agathering. Lots of fishes in the Owens and it is open all year. Tight lines, Chuck from irvine@bamboorods.org Mon Jun 14 10:20:38 1999 4.30.0010/LC0055.00.e068cef4) with ESMTP id chsjaaaa for;Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:20:27 -0700 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Great Western Darrell, Boy, If I need any adds written or press I will look you up. You madethe Easter Sierras sound as good as they are but I would like to addthat the open section of the Owens is 36 miles long, lots of water. I have an acre here so have room for some RV's water and elec. only andsoon will have a shop that we could use for any speakers and lots ofroom for a Chili cook-off. So far we have about four people expressing an interest which I guesswould make for a great fishing trip. We will just have to planning andmaybe some more builders will express an interest. Tight lines, Chuck from djk762@hotmail.com Mon Jun 14 10:43:36 1999 Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:43:04 PDT Subject: Great Western Rodmaker's Count this rookie rodmaker and maybe a couple of friend's in on an east-side gathering. David KashubaFair Oaks Ca _______________________________________________________________Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com from BThoman@neonsoft.com Mon Jun 14 12:04:36 1999 Subject: Heat Treating I know everybody's saying, again?! But, I found this interesting. I have two culms of pre-embargo cane and decided to use one for a smallrod.I took Daryll's idea and flamed the inside of the culm. After pre-planing,I put the bound strips in the oven at 250*. After 20 minutes, I opened theoven to a face full of steam. I left the strips in for another 40 minutesand a little more steam came out but nothing like the first time I openedit. The color of the bamboo never changed. Also, I leave my candythermometer poked through the oven so I can always monitor it. It has atemperature swing of about 40*. I found it interesting that there was so much water in the bamboo as ithadbeen sitting in the Arend Rod shop basement here in dry Colorado. Not tomention the fact that it had been cut before the embargo. An interesting observation I thought I'd pass on. Brian ThomanChattahoochee Rodshttp://www.bambooflyrods.com303.805.5733 from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon Jun 14 16:05:44 1999 Subject: Re: Heat Treating Pre embargo cane is no different than cane cut two years ago, except forperhapsthe price.Bamboo never dries out, it is very hygroscopic and take on or gives upmoistureto keep in eqilibruim with the moisture content in the air.Sir D may feel that cane rods perform better with a high moisture content,thatis why he"flames" the inside of the cane only.I personally think that the only value in flaming is to cover up bad caneandjoints. But seeing that most of the builders flame their cane, it must beformore honourable reasons.T. Ackland"Thoman, Brian" wrote: I know everybody's saying, again?! But, I found this interesting. I have two culms of pre-embargo cane and decided to use one for a smallrod.I took Daryll's idea and flamed the inside of the culm. After pre-planing,I put the bound strips in the oven at 250*. After 20 minutes, I openedtheoven to a face full of steam. I left the strips in for another 40 minutesand a little more steam came out but nothing like the first time I openedit. The color of the bamboo never changed. Also, I leave my candythermometer poked through the oven so I can always monitor it. It has atemperature swing of about 40*. I found it interesting that there was so much water in the bamboo as ithadbeen sitting in the Arend Rod shop basement here in dry Colorado. Not tomention the fact that it had been cut before the embargo. An interesting observation I thought I'd pass on. Brian ThomanChattahoochee Rodshttp://www.bambooflyrods.com303.805.5733 from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Jun 14 17:18:48 1999 Subject: Re: RE: More On Tape For Rookies Wayne,Could you also use a regular candle? I use a candle to blacken gun partd when I inlet them, I believe this might be where lamp black comes from.Bret from BThoman@neonsoft.com Mon Jun 14 17:36:24 1999 Subject: FW: Heat Treating Interesting comments. You should post that the list and not just Terry andI. Brian -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Heat Treating Do any of you bamboo rodmakers really know what your doing, or whatcaneREALLY is. The banter on this list amazes me as to the REAL LACK ofknowledge as to what Bamboo is, what it does, how it works, what resultsyoucan or can't expect.......And what amazes me more is that nobody whoREALLYis the EXPERT in the field hasn't compiled all this stuff in book form soyou BAMBOO RODMAKERS could get it straight for the rest of us who mayreallybe interested in making a rod for the very, very first time!!! Skeeter ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Heat Treating Pre embargo cane is no different than cane cut two years ago, except forperhapsthe price.Bamboo never dries out, it is very hygroscopic and take on or gives upmoistureto keep in eqilibruim with the moisture content in the air.Sir D may feel that cane rods perform better with a high moisturecontent,thatis why he"flames" the inside of the cane only.I personally think that the only value in flaming is to cover up bad caneandjoints. But seeing that most of the builders flame their cane, it must beformore honourable reasons.T. Ackland"Thoman, Brian" wrote: I know everybody's saying, again?! But, I found this interesting. I have two culms of pre-embargo cane and decided to use one for asmallrod.I took Daryll's idea and flamed the inside of the culm. Afterpre-planing,I put the bound strips in the oven at 250*. After 20 minutes, I openedtheoven to a face full of steam. I left the strips in for another 40minutesand a little more steam came out but nothing like the first time Iopenedit. The color of the bamboo never changed. Also, I leave my candythermometer poked through the oven so I can always monitor it. It hasatemperature swing of about 40*. I found it interesting that there was so much water in the bamboo as ithadbeen sitting in the Arend Rod shop basement here in dry Colorado. Nottomention the fact that it had been cut before the embargo. An interesting observation I thought I'd pass on. Brian ThomanChattahoochee Rodshttp://www.bambooflyrods.com303.805.5733 from jfreeman@cyberport.com Mon Jun 14 17:47:14 1999 Subject: Re: Re: FW: Great Western Darrell, You might be able to get a couple of us from down New Mexico andColoradoway. Has a date been brought up? Jim ---------- Subject: Fwd: Re: FW: Great Western To List & Chuck, Bishop... A GREAT place!!! Eric Shott's (Shatt's??) Bakery... probablyone of the best bakery's in California... incredible breads! Love thatJalapeno/Cheese bread! Hotels are not too expensive starting from about $30/nite and there isplenty of free primitive camping (no water, benches.. no nuthin'...primitive,hedonistic fish dances around massive bonfires encouraged... with thehelp of copious amounts of alcohol to fuel the participants) or thereare lots of developed camp sites and a RV park ($15+/-) with hookupsavailable. Pay camp sites gets you a waterfront camp sites. For example... atPleasantValley Reservoir Campgrounds gets you right on the Owens River for about$6/nite... Free camping in the Pionion Forest on Forest Service land closeto the Owens Gorge for the economically challenged. Stay 14 nites free... A good time could be had for the cost of transportation, food, libations,fishing license (day licenses available) if you are a little adventurous. Bishop Creek, Owens River, Rock Creek, Horton Creek, Crowley Lake tubin...heck, you can even catch fish in front of peoples houses!!! There's anirrigation ditch that runs along the Bishop Creek Rd and I've seen fishin there! If a gathering were to happen in winter, that would greatlyreduce the fishing locations however... World class rockclimbing for the more adventurous and non verticallychallenged . Those wanting some physical exercise , world class mountaineeringascentsabound. Plenty of First Winter Ascents available for the ice axe, crampons,rope and rack crowd. A fall or winter gathering would be grand... I vote and a Home Brew challenge... Chuck, if a gathering forms... I'd help too! Then perhaps some of thetalented casters of the list woud share withus first hand, some cures to our limp wristed, hat snagging castingbumblingmistakes... Oh, maybe we can also talk cane without using the fingers... How about a head count... How many makers would like to escape thewintersnows and spend a few days in California in a stupor under the guise ofCane and Trout??? Darrell======================================== ] Subject: FW: Great Western I learned to fly fish on those waters. Caught my first trout on a flyrodup on Bishop Creek. I live in Oregon now, but the Bishop area would beanice place for a gathering! -Randy Brewer -----Original Message----- Subject: Great Western To all interested in a gathering in the Eastern Sierras, Bishop areathis fall or winter, Holler. I now live just North of Bishop and wouldcertainly entertain the idea of doing alot of the leg work for such agathering. Lots of fishes in the Owens and it is open all year. Tight lines, Chuck ---------- from rclarke@eou.edu Mon Jun 14 17:47:25 1999 16:12:31 -0700 "'Rodmakers'" Subject: RE: Heat Treating Yeah, it is amazing any of us know a plane from a hole in the ground. Whenwill we getour act together :) Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu -----Original Message----- Subject: FW: Heat Treating Interesting comments. You should post that the list and not just Terry andI. Brian -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Heat Treating Do any of you bamboo rodmakers really know what your doing, or whatcaneREALLY is. The banter on this list amazes me as to the REAL LACK ofknowledge as to what Bamboo is, what it does, how it works, what resultsyoucan or can't expect.......And what amazes me more is that nobody whoREALLYis the EXPERT in the field hasn't compiled all this stuff in book form soyou BAMBOO RODMAKERS could get it straight for the rest of us who mayreallybe interested in making a rod for the very, very first time!!! Skeeter ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Heat Treating Pre embargo cane is no different than cane cut two years ago, except forperhapsthe price.Bamboo never dries out, it is very hygroscopic and take on or gives upmoistureto keep in eqilibruim with the moisture content in the air.Sir D may feel that cane rods perform better with a high moisturecontent,thatis why he"flames" the inside of the cane only.I personally think that the only value in flaming is to cover up bad caneandjoints. But seeing that most of the builders flame their cane, it must beformore honourable reasons.T. Ackland"Thoman, Brian" wrote: I know everybody's saying, again?! But, I found this interesting. I have two culms of pre-embargo cane and decided to use one for asmallrod.I took Daryll's idea and flamed the inside of the culm. Afterpre-planing,I put the bound strips in the oven at 250*. After 20 minutes, I openedtheoven to a face full of steam. I left the strips in for another 40minutesand a little more steam came out but nothing like the first time Iopenedit. The color of the bamboo never changed. Also, I leave my candythermometer poked through the oven so I can always monitor it. It hasatemperature swing of about 40*. I found it interesting that there was so much water in the bamboo as ithadbeen sitting in the Arend Rod shop basement here in dry Colorado. Nottomention the fact that it had been cut before the embargo. An interesting observation I thought I'd pass on. Brian ThomanChattahoochee Rodshttp://www.bambooflyrods.com303.805.5733 from darrelll@earthlink.net Mon Jun 14 18:13:25 1999 QAA23786; Subject: Re: Great Western Chuck, Well, if it is to be a small turnout, then we should schedule it in the fallrather than wait til winter and if small, I'll volunteer a pot of kick asschili... NOT for those with wimpy taste buds... or any taste buds for thatmatter. Cool weather and ice cold brewsky's are necessary when eatingthischili... Darrell-----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Great Western Darrell, Boy, If I need any adds written or press I will look you up. You madethe Easter Sierras sound as good as they are but I would like to addthat the open section of the Owens is 36 miles long, lots of water. I have an acre here so have room for some RV's water and elec. only andsoon will have a shop that we could use for any speakers and lots ofroom for a Chili cook-off. So far we have about four people expressing an interest which I guesswould make for a great fishing trip. We will just have to planning andmaybe some more builders will express an interest. Tight lines, Chuck from channer@hubwest.com Mon Jun 14 18:33:48 1999 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A1AB14510152; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 17:35:07 MST Subject: Re: Heat Treating At 08:17 AM 6/14/99 -0600, Thoman, Brian wrote:I know everybody's saying, again?! But, I found this interesting. I have two culms of pre-embargo cane and decided to use one for a smallrod.I took Daryll's idea and flamed the inside of the culm. After pre-planing,I put the bound strips in the oven at 250*. After 20 minutes, I opened theoven to a face full of steam. I left the strips in for another 40 minutesand a little more steam came out but nothing like the first time I openedit. The color of the bamboo never changed. Also, I leave my candythermometer poked through the oven so I can always monitor it. It has atemperature swing of about 40*. I found it interesting that there was so much water in the bamboo as ithadbeen sitting in the Arend Rod shop basement here in dry Colorado. Not tomention the fact that it had been cut before the embargo. An interesting observation I thought I'd pass on. Brian ThomanChattahoochee Rodshttp://www.bambooflyrods.com303.805.5733 Brian;If you go back to Lohman's basement, take a humidistat with you.Basementhumidity will always be higher than above ground, because of groundmoisture. if the water table is high there, it could have humidity as highas 80% or more. My old basement back in Illinois would sweat like a pig inthe summer time and not be much better in winter.John from channer@hubwest.com Mon Jun 14 18:50:09 1999 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A584C730144; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 17:51:32 MST Subject: Re: FW: Heat Treating ---- Sent: Monday, June 14, 1999 4:31 PM Subject: Re: Heat Treating Do any of you bamboo rodmakers really know what your doing, or whatcaneREALLY is. The banter on this list amazes me as to the REAL LACK ofknowledge as to what Bamboo is, what it does, how it works, whatresults youcan or can't expect.......And what amazes me more is that nobody whoREALLYis the EXPERT in the field hasn't compiled all this stuff in book form soyou BAMBOO RODMAKERS could get it straight for the rest of us who mayreallybe interested in making a rod for the very, very first time!!! Skeeter skeeter;Why do you flame those that are trying to learn something? Yes, there arebooks and other sources of information available, but then we wouldn'thaveanything to talk about here. Bear in mind that this is craft, notmathematics, therefore there are as many different ways of doingthings(andopinions about them)as there are rodmakers. None of this is carved instone, or is governed by irrefutable laws of nature. We gather on this listto share our thoughts and ideas and ask a few questions of those that aremore experienced and willing to share their knowledge. Some unnecessaryquestions are asked, but it doesn't cost much to answer them. If all thisannoys you, by all means feel free to sign off.John Channer from dpeaston@wzrd.com Mon Jun 14 19:30:06 1999 Subject: Re: FW: Heat Treating At 05:51 PM 6/14/1999 -0600, channer wrote:---- Sent: Monday, June 14, 1999 4:31 PM Subject: Re: Heat Treating Do any of you bamboo rodmakers really know what your doing, or whatcaneREALLY is. The banter on this list amazes me as to the REAL LACK ofknowledge as to what Bamboo is, what it does, how it works, whatresults youcan or can't expect.......And what amazes me more is that nobody whoREALLYis the EXPERT in the field hasn't compiled all this stuff in book form soyou BAMBOO RODMAKERS could get it straight for the rest of us who mayreallybe interested in making a rod for the very, very first time!!! Skeeter skeeter;Why do you flame those that are trying to learn something? Yes, there arebooks and other sources of information available, but then we wouldn'thaveanything to talk about here. Bear in mind that this is craft, notmathematics, therefore there are as many different ways of doingthings(andopinions about them)as there are rodmakers. None of this is carved instone, or is governed by irrefutable laws of nature. We gather on this listto share our thoughts and ideas and ask a few questions of those that aremore experienced and willing to share their knowledge. Some unnecessaryquestions are asked, but it doesn't cost much to answer them. If all thisannoys you, by all means feel free to sign off.John Channer John, You make a number of points and make them well. I have but one smallquibble. You say there are no irrefutable laws of nature governing whatgoes on with bamboo. To the contrary, clear laws govern the behavior ofcane. The problem is, to determine which ones and how. Yes, skeeter, wemight be able to understand all this in the next hundred years if we wantto. However, there are lots of rods to build in the meantime. Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Jun 14 19:38:44 1999 Tue, 15 Jun 1999 08:35:55 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) "'Rodmakers'" Subject: RE: Heat Treating Skeeter,IMPO you have the wrong mind set for bamboo rodmaking. Hopefuly thecraftof bamboo rodmaking will never be one of painting by numbers, possiblythere was a time it was like that when Garrison was the last word but it'scome along since then.As to if anybody *really* knows how to make a bamboo rod, well... that alldepends on which maker you ask. Try making a few and ask that questionagain. Tony Do any of you bamboo rodmakers really know what your doing, or whatcaneREALLY is. The banter on this list amazes me as to the REAL LACK ofknowledge as to what Bamboo is, what it does, how it works, whatresults youcan or can't expect.......And what amazes me more is that nobody whoREALLYis the EXPERT in the field hasn't compiled all this stuff in book form soyou BAMBOO RODMAKERS could get it straight for the rest of us who mayreallybe interested in making a rod for the very, very first time!!! Skeeter /**********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from BChris1055@aol.com Mon Jun 14 21:09:07 1999 Subject: Re: FW: Great Western rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu ('rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu') I'm really dig rodbiulding as I love bamboo rods. I would love to come to a gathering and meet and as questions being a begginer in all. So one more to the list.Kind regards, Brett Christiansen from Los Altos from Ralphgray@webtv.net Mon Jun 14 21:11:00 1999 132.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with 132.iap.bryant.webtv.net(8.8.8/po.gso.24Feb98) id TAA04299; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 19:10:58 -0700 ETAuAhUAiMXB+KDRTfi53zw2yjfabHO7zdgCFQCZPej0Mb1N5eJNuJ9QmjpQzQAtLQ== There goes Shimmerboo again. !!!!!! Ralph Gray from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon Jun 14 21:16:17 1999 Subject: Re: FW: Heat Treating I only wish that I had known all the answers before I had ever built a rod.I think there is a bright future for you on the list Skeeter, without a doubt.Terry "Thoman, Brian" wrote: Interesting comments. You should post that the list and not just TerryandI. Brian -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, June 14, 1999 4:31 PM Subject: Re: Heat Treating Do any of you bamboo rodmakers really know what your doing, or whatcaneREALLY is. The banter on this list amazes me as to the REAL LACK ofknowledge as to what Bamboo is, what it does, how it works, whatresults youcan or can't expect.......And what amazes me more is that nobody whoREALLYis the EXPERT in the field hasn't compiled all this stuff in book form soyou BAMBOO RODMAKERS could get it straight for the rest of us who mayreallybe interested in making a rod for the very, very first time!!! Skeeter ----- Original Message -----From: TERENCE ACKLAND Cc: 'Rodmakers' Sent: Monday, June 14, 1999 5:08 PMSubject: Re: Heat Treating Pre embargo cane is no different than cane cut two years ago, exceptforperhapsthe price.Bamboo never dries out, it is very hygroscopic and take on or gives upmoistureto keep in eqilibruim with the moisture content in the air.Sir D may feel that cane rods perform better with a high moisturecontent,thatis why he"flames" the inside of the cane only.I personally think that the only value in flaming is to cover up bad caneandjoints. But seeing that most of the builders flame their cane, it mustbeformore honourable reasons.T. Ackland"Thoman, Brian" wrote: I know everybody's saying, again?! But, I found this interesting. I have two culms of pre-embargo cane and decided to use one for asmallrod.I took Daryll's idea and flamed the inside of the culm. Afterpre-planing,I put the bound strips in the oven at 250*. After 20 minutes, I openedtheoven to a face full of steam. I left the strips in for another 40minutesand a little more steam came out but nothing like the first time Iopenedit. The color of the bamboo never changed. Also, I leave my candythermometer poked through the oven so I can always monitor it. Ithas atemperature swing of about 40*. I found it interesting that there was so much water in the bamboo asithadbeen sitting in the Arend Rod shop basement here in dry Colorado. Nottomention the fact that it had been cut before the embargo. An interesting observation I thought I'd pass on. Brian ThomanChattahoochee Rodshttp://www.bambooflyrods.com303.805.5733 from channer@hubwest.com Mon Jun 14 21:20:55 1999 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A8DC11B40150; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 20:22:20 MST "'Rodmakers'" Subject: Re: FW: Heat Treating At 08:29 PM 6/14/99 -0400, Douglas P. Easton wrote: John, You make a number of points and make them well. I have but one smallquibble. You say there are no irrefutable laws of nature governing whatgoes on with bamboo. To the contrary, clear laws govern the behavior ofcane. The problem is, to determine which ones and how. Yes, skeeter, wemight be able to understand all this in the next hundred years if we wantto. However, there are lots of rods to build in the meantime. Doug EastonTonawanda, NY Doug;I thought the list was all about quibbling, if we don't do it, who will?So many rods, so little time!John from irvine@bamboorods.org Mon Jun 14 22:19:23 1999 4.30.0010/LC0055.00.e068cef4) with ESMTP id fftjaaaa for;Mon, 14 Jun 1999 20:19:15 -0700 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Great Western Darrell and the group, I will be absent from the computer for five or so days, my son and hiswife are coming down from Oregon country and we have to do somefishing. Seems the interest is picking up and I have made a file of allwho are interested, should be great fun and am looking foreword tohelping to make it all happen. I would appreciate it if you could helpkeep up the momentum for a short spell. What parts do you hail from? Tight lines, Chuck from darrelll@earthlink.net Mon Jun 14 22:26:02 1999 us.dialup.earthlink.net UAA06970; Subject: Re: FW: Great Western No date yet, I think Chuck should take the lead on that...-----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: FW: Great Western Darrell, You might be able to get a couple of us from down New Mexico andColoradoway. Has a date been brought up? Jim ----------From: Darrell Lee Subject: Fwd: Re: FW: Great WesternDate: Saturday, June 12, 1999 1:34 AM To List & Chuck, Bishop... A GREAT place!!! Eric Shott's (Shatt's??) Bakery... probablyone of the best bakery's in California... incredible breads! Love thatJalapeno/Cheese bread! Hotels are not too expensive starting from about $30/nite and there isplenty of free primitive camping (no water, benches.. no nuthin'...primitive,hedonistic fish dances around massive bonfires encouraged... with thehelp of copious amounts of alcohol to fuel the participants) or thereare lots of developed camp sites and a RV park ($15+/-) with hookupsavailable. Pay camp sites gets you a waterfront camp sites. For example... atPleasantValley Reservoir Campgrounds gets you right on the Owens River forabout$6/nite... Free camping in the Pionion Forest on Forest Service land closeto the Owens Gorge for the economically challenged. Stay 14 nites free... A good time could be had for the cost of transportation, food, libations,fishing license (day licenses available) if you are a little adventurous. Bishop Creek, Owens River, Rock Creek, Horton Creek, Crowley Laketubin...heck, you can even catch fish in front of peoples houses!!! There's anirrigation ditch that runs along the Bishop Creek Rd and I've seen fishin there! If a gathering were to happen in winter, that would greatlyreduce the fishing locations however... World class rockclimbing for the more adventurous and non verticallychallenged . Those wanting some physical exercise , world class mountaineeringascentsabound. Plenty of First Winter Ascents available for the ice axe,crampons,rope and rack crowd. A fall or winter gathering would be grand... I vote and a Home Brew challenge... Chuck, if a gathering forms... I'd help too! Then perhaps some of thetalented casters of the list woud share withus first hand, some cures to our limp wristed, hat snagging castingbumblingmistakes... Oh, maybe we can also talk cane without using the fingers... How about a head count... How many makers would like to escape thewintersnows and spend a few days in California in a stupor under the guise ofCane and Trout??? Darrell======================================== From: Randy Brewer ] Subject: FW: Great WesternDate: 6/11/99 11:05 AM I learned to fly fish on those waters. Caught my first trout on a flyrodup on Bishop Creek. I live in Oregon now, but the Bishop area would beanice place for a gathering! -Randy Brewer -----Original Message-----From: charles irvine [SMTP:irvine@bamboorods.org]Sent: Friday, June 11, 1999 10:10 AM Subject: Great Western To all interested in a gathering in the Eastern Sierras, Bishop areathis fall or winter, Holler. I now live just North of Bishop and wouldcertainly entertain the idea of doing alot of the leg work for such agathering. Lots of fishes in the Owens and it is open all year. Tight lines, Chuck ---------- from darrelll@earthlink.net Mon Jun 14 23:02:16 1999 VAA16244; Subject: Re: Great Western Los Angeles... D.L.-----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Great Western Darrell and the group, I will be absent from the computer for five or so days, my son and hiswife are coming down from Oregon country and we have to do somefishing. Seems the interest is picking up and I have made a file of allwho are interested, should be great fun and am looking foreword tohelping to make it all happen. I would appreciate it if you could helpkeep up the momentum for a short spell. What parts do you hail from? Tight lines, Chuck from dmanders@telusplanet.net Tue Jun 15 07:49:04 1999 don") bysmtp1.telusplanet.net with SMTP id ; Tue, 15 Jun 199906:48:54 - 0600 Subject: Re: Heat Treating Skeeter, You remind me of a lot of folks in this electronic world - you want it yourway - you want it all and you want it now - Well, don't mean to confuseyoubuddy but this isn't Wendy's bugger joint - Like a licence plate I saw the other day said" Get in sit down and shut up There are things to be learned around here - and yes there are some folkswith a lot of experience on this list. Don At 04:34 PM 6/14/99 -0600, Thoman, Brian wrote:-----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, June 14, 1999 4:31 PM Subject: Re: Heat Treating Do any of you bamboo rodmakers really know what your doing, or whatcaneREALLY is. The banter on this list amazes me as to the REAL LACK ofknowledge as to what Bamboo is, what it does, how it works, whatresults youcan or can't expect.......And what amazes me more is that nobody whoREALLYis the EXPERT in the field hasn't compiled all this stuff in book form soyou BAMBOO RODMAKERS could get it straight for the rest of us who mayreallybe interested in making a rod for the very, very first time!!! Skeeter ----- Original Message -----From: TERENCE ACKLAND Cc: 'Rodmakers' Sent: Monday, June 14, 1999 5:08 PMSubject: Re: Heat Treating Pre embargo cane is no different than cane cut two years ago, exceptforperhapsthe price.Bamboo never dries out, it is very hygroscopic and take on or gives upmoistureto keep in eqilibruim with the moisture content in the air.Sir D may feel that cane rods perform better with a high moisturecontent,thatis why he"flames" the inside of the cane only.I personally think that the only value in flaming is to cover up bad caneandjoints. But seeing that most of the builders flame their cane, it must beformore honourable reasons.T. Ackland"Thoman, Brian" wrote: I know everybody's saying, again?! But, I found this interesting. I have two culms of pre-embargo cane and decided to use one for asmallrod.I took Daryll's idea and flamed the inside of the culm. Afterpre-planing,I put the bound strips in the oven at 250*. After 20 minutes, I openedtheoven to a face full of steam. I left the strips in for another 40minutesand a little more steam came out but nothing like the first time Iopenedit. The color of the bamboo never changed. Also, I leave my candythermometer poked through the oven so I can always monitor it. It hasatemperature swing of about 40*. I found it interesting that there was so much water in the bamboo asithadbeen sitting in the Arend Rod shop basement here in dry Colorado. Nottomention the fact that it had been cut before the embargo. An interesting observation I thought I'd pass on. Brian ThomanChattahoochee Rodshttp://www.bambooflyrods.com303.805.5733 from HARMS1@prodigy.net Tue Jun 15 08:07:55 1999 Tue, 15 Jun 1999 09:07:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Heat Treating boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01BEB70E.77BC3200" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BEB70E.77BC3200 Brian,Ok, who the hell is Skeeter at Shimmerboo@flite.net ? He seems a tad on=the perplexed side with us rod makers and our understanding of cane, to =say the least. I wonder what field of studies he pursues where all =issues have satisfactorily been understood and resolved! Even =mathematicians wonder if it is actually true that 2+2 always equal 4. Cheers, Bill -----Original Message----- Subject: FW: Heat Treating Interesting comments. You should post that the list and not just Terry =andI. Brian -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, June 14, 1999 4:31 PM Subject: Re: Heat Treating Do any of you bamboo rodmakers really know what your doing, or what =caneREALLY is. The banter on this list amazes me as to the REAL LACK ofknowledge as to what Bamboo is, what it does, how it works, what =results youcan or can't expect.......And what amazes me more is that nobody who =REALLYis the EXPERT in the field hasn't compiled all this stuff in book form =soyou BAMBOO RODMAKERS could get it straight for the rest of us who may=reallybe interested in making a rod for the very, very first time!!! Skeeter ----- Original Message -----From: TERENCE ACKLAND Cc: 'Rodmakers' Sent: Monday, June 14, 1999 5:08 PMSubject: Re: Heat Treating Pre embargo cane is no different than cane cut two years ago, except =forperhapsthe price.Bamboo never dries out, it is very hygroscopic and take on or gives =upmoistureto keep in eqilibruim with the moisture content in the air.Sir D may feel that cane rods perform better with a high moisture =content,thatis why he"flames" the inside of the cane only.I personally think that the only value in flaming is to cover up bad =caneandjoints. But seeing that most of the builders flame their cane, it =must beformore honourable reasons.T. Ackland"Thoman, Brian" wrote: I know everybody's saying, again?! But, I found this interesting. I have two culms of pre-embargo cane and decided to use one for a =smallrod.I took Daryll's idea and flamed the inside of the culm. Afterpre- planing,I put the bound strips in the oven at 250*. After 20 minutes, I =openedtheoven to a face full of steam. I left the strips in for another 40minutesand a little more steam came out but nothing like the first time Iopenedit. The color of the bamboo never changed. Also, I leave my candythermometer poked through the oven so I can always monitor it. It =has atemperature swing of about 40*. I found it interesting that there was so much water in the bamboo =as ithadbeen sitting in the Arend Rod shop basement here in dry Colorado. =Nottomention the fact that it had been cut before the embargo. An interesting observation I thought I'd pass on. Brian ThomanChattahoochee Rodshttp://www.bambooflyrods.com303.805.5733 ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BEB70E.77BC3200 Brian,Ok, who the hellis = He = tad on the perplexed side with us rod makers and our understanding of = true that 2+2 always equal 4. Bill -----Original Message-----From:= 'Rodmakers' <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= should = = bamboo rodmakers really know what your doing, or what as = = EXPERT in the field hasn't compiled all this stuff in book form = 'Rodmakers' <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= that the only value in flaming is to cover up bad = = = from cmj@post11.tele.dk Tue Jun 15 09:57:06 1999 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0200 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEB747.21BDCB00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEB747.21BDCB00 SET RODMAKERS MAIL POSTPONE ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEB747.21BDCB00 SET RODMAKERS MAIL POSTPONE ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEB747.21BDCB00-- from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Tue Jun 15 10:25:24 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:25:17 -0500 Subject: Re: FW: Heat Treating Friends,As we say in Louisiana "All y'all know that I have no official functionwiththis list." Still I manage to spend a few mostly pleasurable moments eachdaywith the good folks of the list. Many of you have become my personalfriends.Like lots of you, I cringe when I see hostility worm its way on to thisforum.Anonymity is a fact of life in the information age. That anonymity bringswithit both blessing and curse. The blessing is that guys like me can askignorantquestions and still be treated with kindness and respect. The curse isthatothers can flame those innocently asked questions and responses.I've never met this "Skeeter," and I have no first hand experience withhim. I have no authority to censor anyone. I'm just innocent enough tospeakmy mind more often than might be wise. When "Skeeter" signed on to thelist afew weeks ago, several people wrote me saying that he has caused a greatdeal ofupheaval on other lists. I'm told that he has been banned from other listsbecause of the vicious nature of his posts to those lists, both public andprivate.My understanding of the spirit of this and any other list-serv is that wewelcome all who have ideas and civil input to share. In the past, many ofushave seen what happens when civility is allowed to wain. Let's never letthathappen again on this list.Rather than allowing this thread to disintegrate into name-calling, hurtfeelings, a war of words, and bad attitudes towards the list, let mesuggestthat all of us take a few minutes to think before we hit the "send" button. If"Skeeter," or anyone else, wants to start an argument, let's just ignorehim (orher). Perhaps the great spirit of cooperation and sharing so prevalent onthislist will convince "Skeeter" to respond with a similar feeling. If not,maybehe will just go away if we ignore him.I'm a fish out of water, a trout fisherman in Louisiana who usesrodmakingas a pacifier on the 9 of 10 weekends he cannot enjoy the pleasures of acoolmountain stream. Rodmaking is an enjoyable hobby for me, and this list isa bigpart of my enjoyment. I guess I'm asking all of you to help me keep it fun. Harry Boyd from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Tue Jun 15 10:37:59 1999 IAA10033 (5.5.2448.0) Subject: Leonard 50 I'd like to build a 8" Leonard 50 but all the tapers that I've found are forthree piecerods and I'd like to build a 2 piece. My questions are, (1) is there a taper 2 piece as opposed to three piece and if not (2) can I just take the 3 piecetaper andmake each section 48" and just have one ferrule in the middle. Havingnever built a 3piece or really haven't done enough investigation to find out if the taper isanydifferent whether it's made 2 or three sections. Any help would be greatlyappreciated. from CAPNRICO@aol.com Tue Jun 15 11:10:42 1999 Subject: cane rods I have 9 rods in mint condition manufactured by Ivor Johnson, Montague,and Hardy. Could be 70 -100 years old. Don't have a clue.Anyone have any incite into where I may get info to establish a value to sell? Thanks. from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Tue Jun 15 11:15:08 1999 JAA10758 (5.5.2448.0) Subject: maps I went looking for up to date maps, dirt roads and trails included, thisweekend andfound most of the surveys are 10-30 years old. Stopped in at one of ourlocal fly shopsand found topographical maps for the west on CD, some for the mid west,northeast andsoutheast. There pretty darn cool and you can zoom in and print what everarea you wantto go fishing in. They have a web site that shows what the have: http://www.topo.com from brookie@frii.com Tue Jun 15 11:19:25 1999 Subject: RodM. civility A lurker surfaces here. I can tell you that Harry you just said it alleloquentlyand calmly. Your comments on the tone and civility needed on this and(all)listservs was true, and very much needed if the listserv(s) are tocontinue. Anonymity is a fact of life in the information age. That anonymitybringswith it both blessing and curse. The blessing is that guys like me can ask ignorant questions and still be treated with kindness and respect. Ahhh, you make me proud ! likewise likewise for me on this ignorantquestion thing ! *G* This listserv -is- one of the most accommodating to newcomers. You have an amazingly large membership out there, over 600 members. Some of us don't understand most of what you are talkingabout, but it's fascinating, interesting and educational. Pleasant to seeemails from the RodM. list on my PC during the day. I've been in correspondence with another woman who is a member of thislistserv, and she just finished her first cane ! Don't think she has thetime to post at all, but I know this listserv and it's 'ways' havecontributedgreatly to the process. As much as we all can keep it that way ...providessome harmony in an otherwise discordanant world. I'm a fish out of water, a trout fisherman in Louisiana who uses rodmaking as a pacifier on the 9 of 10 weekends he cannot enjoy the pleasures of a cool mountain stream. Rodmaking is an enjoyable hobby for me, and this list is a big part of my enjoyment. I guess I'm asking all of you to help me keep it fun. No excuses, pack the Boyd family up, come to Colorado this summer. We'llfling dries on light cane in small high altitude creeks for brookies, brownsand cutts ( greenback that is ). sueColorado from tklein@amgen.com Tue Jun 15 11:46:44 1999 smtp.amgen.com via smap (3.2) Subject: RE: Leonard 50 Patrick Coffey wrote: I'd like to build a 8" Leonard 50... That's a mighty short rod! (no wonder you're having some difficulty locating a taper... ;-)---Tim from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Tue Jun 15 11:58:41 1999 JAA16046; (5.5.2448.0) "'tklein@amgen.com'" Subject: RE: Leonard 50 good one, I suppose I should learn the keys on the computer first. I supposea 8' rodwould be a whole lot better than a 8". ----------From: Klein, Tim[SMTP:tklein@amgen.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 9:46 AM Subject: RE: Leonard 50 Patrick Coffey wrote: I'd like to build a 8" Leonard 50... That's a mighty short rod! (no wonder you're having some difficulty locating a taper... ;-)---Tim from Turbotrk@aol.com Tue Jun 15 12:10:04 1999 Subject: Re: FW: Heat Treating shimmerboo@flite.net Harry, I can not agree more. I have been a list member for over a year and have found it most enjoyable. I have seen the wars develope as you have. Let us stay focused on what we come here for and not be swayed by thelonely hearts that only enjoy pushing or buttons. Everyone please listen toHarry. We need to stay on track this time. Stuart Miller from hexagon@odyssee.net Tue Jun 15 15:24:52 1999 shimmerboo@flite.netSubject: Re: FW: Heat Treating There was not much happening on the list before skeeter offered hisbotanicalwisdom. At least he got things moving a little.We are only making fishing poles which in the great scheme of thingsseemsfrivolous.I have checked out other lists and find rodmakers to be very well behaved.It is so easy to delete without reading.Terry Turbotrk@aol.com wrote: Harry, I can not agree more. I have been a list member for over a yearandhave found it most enjoyable. I have seen the wars develope as you have.Let us stay focused on what we come here for and not be swayed by thelonelyhearts that only enjoy pushing or buttons. Everyone please listen toHarry.We need to stay on track this time. Stuart Miller from gaff@carol.net Tue Jun 15 17:48:12 1999 Subject: listen to harry Turbotrk@aol.com wrote: Harry, I can not agree more. I have been a list member for over a . Everyoneplease listen to Harry.We need to stay on track this time. Stuart Millerhey guys,i say, lets try it harry's way. what the hell, can't hurt anything.wil from oakmere@carol.net Tue Jun 15 20:51:04 1999 Subject: RE: Skeeter Folks: Be careful. This person has been around other lists. It is best to pass - believe me. Some others on this list may have also experience priorexposure and may wish to comment. Frank from sniderja@email.uc.edu Wed Jun 16 06:42:30 1999 shimmerboo@flite.net Subject: Re: FW: Heat Treating Well spoken, Harry. Thanks for saying what many of us feel. At 10:23 AM 6/15/99 -0500, Harry Boyd wrote:Friends,As we say in Louisiana "All y'all know that I have no official function withthis list." Still I manage to spend a few mostly pleasurable momentseach daywith the good folks of the list. Many of you have become my personalfriends.Like lots of you, I cringe when I see hostility worm its way on to thisforum.Anonymity is a fact of life in the information age. That anonymity bringswithit both blessing and curse. The blessing is that guys like me can askignorantquestions and still be treated with kindness and respect. The curse isthatothers can flame those innocently asked questions and responses.I've never met this "Skeeter," and I have no first hand experience withhim. I have no authority to censor anyone. I'm just innocent enough tospeakmy mind more often than might be wise. When "Skeeter" signed on to thelist afew weeks ago, several people wrote me saying that he has caused agreat deal ofupheaval on other lists. I'm told that he has been banned from other listsbecause of the vicious nature of his posts to those lists, both public andprivate.My understanding of the spirit of this and any other list-serv is thatwewelcome all who have ideas and civil input to share. In the past, many ofushave seen what happens when civility is allowed to wain. Let's never letthathappen again on this list.Rather than allowing this thread to disintegrate into name-calling,hurtfeelings, a war of words, and bad attitudes towards the list, let mesuggestthat all of us take a few minutes to think before we hit the "send"button. If"Skeeter," or anyone else, wants to start an argument, let's just ignorehim (orher). Perhaps the great spirit of cooperation and sharing so prevalent onthislist will convince "Skeeter" to respond with a similar feeling. If not,maybehe will just go away if we ignore him.I'm a fish out of water, a trout fisherman in Louisiana who usesrodmakingas a pacifier on the 9 of 10 weekends he cannot enjoy the pleasures of acoolmountain stream. Rodmaking is an enjoyable hobby for me, and this listis a bigpart of my enjoyment. I guess I'm asking all of you to help me keep it fun. Harry Boyd from HARMS1@prodigy.net Wed Jun 16 08:09:19 1999 Wed, 16 Jun 1999 09:09:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Skeeter boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01BEB7D7.D2B9DBC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BEB7D7.D2B9DBC0 Well said, Frank. I might add, however, that like a jerk, I responded =to one of Skeeter's earlier messages, and got back the most vile and =abusive string of vulgarity you can imagine. Subsequently, many other =members of this list warned me of their own similar, previous =experiences with this guy. This "Skeeter" character is not a rod maker, and it is doubtful that he =has either knowledge of (or interest in) fly rods. Apparently, his =interests lie exclusively in being abusive, insulting and anonymous -- a = So, chill out, fellow list-members. No purpose whatever is served in =responding to Skeeter, because he neither knows nor cares what we are =talking about. You might consider his messages the same as a "virus" -- =just pass them by and hope that very soon Skeeter will be removed from =this list, as has been done in the past. Cheers, Bill -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Skeeter Folks: Be careful. This person has been around other lists. It is best to pass =- believe me. Some others on this list may have also experience priorexposure and may wish to comment. Frank ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BEB7D7.D2B9DBC0 Well said, = messages, and got back the most vile and abusive string of vulgarity you = = own similar, previous experiences with this guy. This = character is not a rod maker, and it is doubtful that he has either = in being abusive, insulting and anonymous -- a perversity that is, = So, chill out,fellow = consider his messages the same as a "virus" -- just pass them= hope that very soon Skeeter will be removed from this list, as has been = the past. Bill -----Original Message-----From:= rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu=<rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= = = ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BEB7D7.D2B9DBC0-- from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Wed Jun 16 08:50:03 1999 Wed, 16 Jun 1999 09:49:58 -0400 "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Subject: RE: FW: Heat Treating Frivolous, you say. And when I think in terms of the great issues of warand peace, poverty and wealth, democracy and tyrrany, environmentaldegradation, intolerance and pluralism, &c. &c. I am inclined to agree. Butfolks certainly get passionate about this frivolity. There's somethingmoreto this than mere selfish attachment to idle pleasures. I think about someof the things that rodmaking and fly fishing engage me in. There are theaesthetic issues, the beauty of the water and the fish and the instrumentswe craft, but I think there is even something more here than "art for art'ssake." Likewise, there is the investment of time and effort - but ofcoursejust because you work hard on something does not make it worthwhile. LatelyI have been thinking about "catch and release." Long ago when I was ahumble worm dragger I used to kill and eat the (very few) fish I caught.Then I became acquainted with the catch and release ethic. Suddenly, I aminvolved with questions of ethics. Now, having devoted years to letting gothe (very few) fish I catch, I am wondering about the ethics of catch andrelease - surely a fish doesn't ENJOY being on my line, even if it doesn'texperience pain in any sense that would be recognizable to me, and if thatis so, how ethical is it for me to subject a fellow creature to sufferingmerely for my own pleasure and then release it so that others later maysimilarly afflict it? In that case, maybe its better to catch a fish onceand eat it (I'm no vegetarian or PETA crazy, and I'm not about to stopfishing!) I can give thanks at the table for the gift of its life; can Isimilarly give thanks on the stream for the gift of its suffering? Now Iaminvolved with issues of personal responsibility, life and death, sufferingand sustenance, and maybe religion as well. And, of course, as we allknow,trout fishing DOES also involve us fairly directly with issues of povertyand wealth, environmentalism, etc. etc. And (coming full circle), part ofwhat attracts me to bamboo is the feeling that in crafting fine cane rodswepay the tribute to these questions of approaching them with instrumentscommensurate with their seriousness. So, maybe what we have here issomepretty serious frivolity. -----Original Message-----From: TERENCE ACKLAND [SMTP:hexagon@odyssee.net]Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 4:28 PM Cc: fbcwin@fsbnet.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu;shimmerboo@flite.netSubject: Re: FW: Heat Treating There was not much happening on the list before skeeter offered hisbotanicalwisdom. At least he got things moving a little.We are only making fishing poles which in the great scheme of thingsseemsfrivolous.I have checked out other lists and find rodmakers to be very wellbehaved.It is so easy to delete without reading.Terry from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Jun 16 10:30:26 1999 Wed, 16 Jun 1999 23:27:55 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: Skeeter I wonder if Special Agent Mulder has a file on this guy? Make for aninteresting episode on X Files don't you think? The Goof is out there. Tony On Wed, 16 Jun 1999, WILLIAM A HARMS wrote: Well said, Frank. I might add, however, that like a jerk, I responded toone ofSkeeter's earlier messages, and got back the most vile and abusive stringof vulgarityyou can imagine. Subsequently, many other members of this list warnedme of their ownsimilar, previous experiences with this guy. This "Skeeter" character is not a rod maker, and it is doubtful that hehas eitherknowledge of (or interest in) fly rods. Apparently, his interests lieexclusively inbeing abusive, insulting and anonymous -- a perversity that is, perhaps, akind ofsociopathology. So, chill out, fellow list-members. No purpose whatever is served inresponding toSkeeter, because he neither knows nor cares what we are talking about. You mightconsider his messages the same as a "virus" -- just pass them by and hopethat very soonSkeeter will be removed from this list, as has been done in the past. Cheers, Bill -----Original Message-----From: Frank and Gail Paul Date: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 6:59 PMSubject: RE: Skeeter Folks: Be careful. This person has been around other lists. It is best to pass - believe me. Some others on this list may have also experience priorexposure and may wish to comment. Frank /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from michael@wugate.wustl.edu Wed Jun 16 10:40:55 1999 Subject: List Abuse A couple days ago a well-meaning listmember received anabusive/disruptivemessage via private email, and then forwarded on to the list. I would liketo ask everyone's help before this get any further out of hand. First of all, if any of you receive an abusive email related to anyRODMAKERS post, please forward it on to me. I can then check to see iftheperson is a subscriber to the list, and take appropriate actions ifnecessary. I can also forward it on to the person's internet provider forthem to take action if necessary. Additionally, if you receive an abusive email, please do not forward it onto the RODMAKERS list, rather as requested above, forward it on to me. Iwill try to help in any way I can with the situation. Thanks everyone... Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Jun 16 10:50:58 1999 Wed, 16 Jun 1999 23:46:46 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Subject: RE: FW: Heat Treating Seth,What you say has a lot of merit. Each to his or her own but there isalways a certain evolution that takes place in the mind of seriousstudents of what I guess I can only call a path, be it rodmaking, fishing,trophy hunting, climbing, making money or what ever. I guess it's what happens when you reach a certain stage of ability and inorder to continue the interest you elevate your standard of craftsmanshipor personal ethics like in the case of only catching the one fishto eat then pack it in for the day. This could be likened to the argumentof rockclimbers deciding to not use chalk or mountaineers feeling that toclimb a high peak with bottled oxygen is to do so in bad style.I've been wraped up in this kind of thing before and I have to keepreminding myself that too much navel gazing (in my case) results in theultimate loss of enjoyment of the activity when I begin taking things tooseriously. Tony On Wed, 16 Jun 1999, Seth Steinzor wrote: Frivolous, you say. And when I think in terms of the great issues of warand peace, poverty and wealth, democracy and tyrrany, environmentaldegradation, intolerance and pluralism, &c. &c. I am inclined to agree. Butfolks certainly get passionate about this frivolity. There's somethingmoreto this than mere selfish attachment to idle pleasures. I think aboutsomeof the things that rodmaking and fly fishing engage me in. There are theaesthetic issues, the beauty of the water and the fish and theinstrumentswe craft, but I think there is even something more here than "art forart'ssake." Likewise, there is the investment of time and effort - but ofcoursejust because you work hard on something does not make it worthwhile. LatelyI have been thinking about "catch and release." Long ago when I was ahumble worm dragger I used to kill and eat the (very few) fish I caught.Then I became acquainted with the catch and release ethic. Suddenly, Iaminvolved with questions of ethics. Now, having devoted years to lettinggothe (very few) fish I catch, I am wondering about the ethics of catch andrelease - surely a fish doesn't ENJOY being on my line, even if it doesn'texperience pain in any sense that would be recognizable to me, and ifthatis so, how ethical is it for me to subject a fellow creature to sufferingmerely for my own pleasure and then release it so that others later maysimilarly afflict it? In that case, maybe its better to catch a fish onceand eat it (I'm no vegetarian or PETA crazy, and I'm not about to stopfishing!) I can give thanks at the table for the gift of its life; can Isimilarly give thanks on the stream for the gift of its suffering? Now Iaminvolved with issues of personal responsibility, life and death, sufferingand sustenance, and maybe religion as well. And, of course, as we allknow,trout fishing DOES also involve us fairly directly with issues of povertyand wealth, environmentalism, etc. etc. And (coming full circle), part ofwhat attracts me to bamboo is the feeling that in crafting fine cane rodswepay the tribute to these questions of approaching them with instrumentscommensurate with their seriousness. So, maybe what we have here issomepretty serious frivolity. -----Original Message-----From: TERENCE ACKLAND [SMTP:hexagon@odyssee.net]Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 4:28 PM Cc: fbcwin@fsbnet.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu;shimmerboo@flite.netSubject: Re: FW: Heat Treating There was not much happening on the list before skeeter offered hisbotanicalwisdom. At least he got things moving a little.We are only making fishing poles which in the great scheme of thingsseemsfrivolous.I have checked out other lists and find rodmakers to be very wellbehaved.It is so easy to delete without reading.Terry /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from bdcreek@crosswinds.net Wed Jun 16 11:38:31 1999 (envelope- from bdcreek@crosswinds.net) Subject: Re: FW: Heat Treating Tony, Depends entirely upon whose navel one is gazing into, does it not? Brian from ballard@orion.wes.army.mil Wed Jun 16 13:49:40 1999 with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:56:09 -0500 ; Wed, 16 Jun 99 13:55:55 CDT Subject: Mike Clark's shop in Colorado Does anyone know if Mike Clark keeps regular hours at his shopin Colorado? I have to attend a week long conference at Fort Collinsand would like to stop in and look at his rods. Let me know off list. Oh, tips for fishing in the Fort Collins area (Rocky Mountain park) wouldbe *greatly* appreciated. I'll probably get skunked anyway but I'll havefun. thanks in advance,Jerry Ballardballard@zen.wes.army.mil from mschaffer@mindspring.com Wed Jun 16 14:33:59 1999 Subject: Is it well done yet?? Ok, guys, I've got another question for the list. A little background firstthough: This is my first attempt, so when I got to the heat it then flattenthe nodes and straighten the cane part, I may have gotten a littleoverzealous with the heat! I use a heat gun, but the areas I heated didbecome slightly blackened before I flattened and straightened. Now thatthestrips have their initial 60 degree bevels there is no evidence (to thenaked eye) of the cane having been over 'cooked'. I have looked at Wayne'svideo (ex post facto) ans see that his cane doesn't get toasty! Obviously, the question is whether or not the cane is still viable for usein a rod, or did I make yet another set of chopsticks?? Any input would beappreciated. If everything is OK, then it's on to the oven, if not, it's here we go again!:^) Mike Doc (Mike Shaffer)(mschaffer@mindspring.com) from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Wed Jun 16 15:47:54 1999 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id IAA22108; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 08:47:36 +1200 Subject: Re: Is it well done yet?? Mike , A number of the books suggest that it is necessary to at least char theedges of the strips when heating for flattening the nodesMy strips often looked lightly toasted after heating the nodes and thenwhen the bevel is done there is no indication , the same as you describe. Ihave not had any problems , other then the ocassional node that will give a"crack" during straightening and I usually throw that strip out . I have been concerned that I may not be heating enough compared to somereferences saying that the nodes should look burnt. This is a long winded way of saying " If the strips flex ok then the stripsare ok" regards Ian Kearney At 03:33 PM 16/06/99 -0400, michael w. shaffer wrote:Ok, guys, I've got another question for the list. A little background firstthough: This is my first attempt, so when I got to the heat it then flattenthe nodes and straighten the cane part, I may have gotten a littleoverzealous with the heat! I use a heat gun, but the areas I heated didbecome slightly blackened before I flattened and straightened. Now thatthestrips have their initial 60 degree bevels there is no evidence (to thenaked eye) of the cane having been over 'cooked'. I have looked at Wayne'svideo (ex post facto) ans see that his cane doesn't get toasty! Obviously, the question is whether or not the cane is still viable for usein a rod, or did I make yet another set of chopsticks?? Any input wouldbeappreciated. If everything is OK, then it's on to the oven, if not, it's here we go again!:^) Mike Doc (Mike Shaffer)(mschaffer@mindspring.com) from hexagon@odyssee.net Wed Jun 16 16:05:01 1999 Subject: Re: FW: Heat Treating Seth,I guess I am not that crazy about fishing, at least fly fishing. If I do go andcast a line it is with a Hardy 9ft #5 glass rod for bass. Fly fishing is likesex, it always reads better.Trotting a float down a tidal river for Mullet on a 10ft cane rod with acenterpin reel in the pissing rain is real FISHING.I am getting all homesick now, Terry Seth Steinzor wrote: Frivolous, you say. And when I think in terms of the great issues of warand peace, poverty and wealth, democracy and tyrrany, environmentaldegradation, intolerance and pluralism, &c. &c. I am inclined to agree. Butfolks certainly get passionate about this frivolity. There's somethingmoreto this than mere selfish attachment to idle pleasures. I think aboutsomeof the things that rodmaking and fly fishing engage me in. There are theaesthetic issues, the beauty of the water and the fish and theinstrumentswe craft, but I think there is even something more here than "art forart'ssake." Likewise, there is the investment of time and effort - but ofcoursejust because you work hard on something does not make it worthwhile. LatelyI have been thinking about "catch and release." Long ago when I was ahumble worm dragger I used to kill and eat the (very few) fish I caught.Then I became acquainted with the catch and release ethic. Suddenly, Iaminvolved with questions of ethics. Now, having devoted years to lettinggothe (very few) fish I catch, I am wondering about the ethics of catch andrelease - surely a fish doesn't ENJOY being on my line, even if it doesn'texperience pain in any sense that would be recognizable to me, and ifthatis so, how ethical is it for me to subject a fellow creature to sufferingmerely for my own pleasure and then release it so that others later maysimilarly afflict it? In that case, maybe its better to catch a fish onceand eat it (I'm no vegetarian or PETA crazy, and I'm not about to stopfishing!) I can give thanks at the table for the gift of its life; can Isimilarly give thanks on the stream for the gift of its suffering? Now Iaminvolved with issues of personal responsibility, life and death, sufferingand sustenance, and maybe religion as well. And, of course, as we allknow,trout fishing DOES also involve us fairly directly with issues of povertyand wealth, environmentalism, etc. etc. And (coming full circle), part ofwhat attracts me to bamboo is the feeling that in crafting fine cane rodswepay the tribute to these questions of approaching them with instrumentscommensurate with their seriousness. So, maybe what we have here issomepretty serious frivolity. -----Original Message-----From: TERENCE ACKLAND [SMTP:hexagon@odyssee.net]Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 4:28 PM Cc: fbcwin@fsbnet.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu;shimmerboo@flite.netSubject: Re: FW: Heat Treating There was not much happening on the list before skeeter offered hisbotanicalwisdom. At least he got things moving a little.We are only making fishing poles which in the great scheme of thingsseemsfrivolous.I have checked out other lists and find rodmakers to be very wellbehaved.It is so easy to delete without reading.Terry from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Jun 16 16:05:12 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Wed, 16 Jun 1999 16:04:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Is it well done yet?? Doc,Go straight to the oven. Do not pass "Go." Do not collect $200. Just ookaway! If the planed strips don't show any evidence of charring, they willbefine. Of course, in the future you'll want to slow the heating a bit in ordertoavoid the charring at all. If you look at Ray Gould's book, or even JackHowell's, you'll see that a little charring, planed away, is okay.Harry michael w. shaffer wrote: Ok, guys, I've got another question for the list. A little background firstthough: This is my first attempt, so when I got to the heat it then flattenthe nodes and straighten the cane part, I may have gotten a littleoverzealous with the heat! I use a heat gun, but the areas I heated didbecome slightly blackened before I flattened and straightened. Now thatthestrips have their initial 60 degree bevels there is no evidence (to thenaked eye) of the cane having been over 'cooked'. I have looked at Wayne'svideo (ex post facto) ans see that his cane doesn't get toasty! Obviously, the question is whether or not the cane is still viable for usein a rod, or did I make yet another set of chopsticks?? Any input wouldbeappreciated. If everything is OK, then it's on to the oven, if not, it's here we go again!:^) Mike Doc (Mike Shaffer)(mschaffer@mindspring.com) from vwilhite@volcano.net Wed Jun 16 18:07:26 1999 pub.affiliate.nortel.net QAA20691 0700 Subject: how do I get off this list Can some one please tell me how to get off this list. from jczimny@dol.net Wed Jun 16 19:32:56 1999 0400 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: RE: Is it well done yet?? I do not think it wise or, even, necessary to overheat nodes. The way isslow and gentle- keep testing- then counter bend. Then, wait for the strip to cool.Perhaps, steam isbetter than dry heat. It heats faster and without charring.John Z -----Original Message----- Subject: Is it well done yet?? Ok, guys, I've got another question for the list. A little background firstthough: This is my first attempt, so when I got to the heat it then flattenthe nodes and straighten the cane part, I may have gotten a littleoverzealous with the heat! I use a heat gun, but the areas I heated didbecome slightly blackened before I flattened and straightened. Now thatthestrips have their initial 60 degree bevels there is no evidence (to thenaked eye) of the cane having been over 'cooked'. I have looked at Wayne'svideo (ex post facto) ans see that his cane doesn't get toasty! Obviously, the question is whether or not the cane is still viable for usein a rod, or did I make yet another set of chopsticks?? Any input would beappreciated. If everything is OK, then it's on to the oven, if not, it's here we go again!:^) Mike Doc (Mike Shaffer)(mschaffer@mindspring.com) from anglport@con2.com Wed Jun 16 19:51:30 1999 ,"rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: RE: Is it well done yet?? John,I've been touting the Bokstrom soak-heat-straighten-let dry methodto anywho will listen. After all the rods I made Garrison's way, I was loath totry anything that even hinted at wetness, but after doing it ONCE, I'llnever go back. The heating is so uniform, so controllable, and so damnedeasy, I'm totally taken with the system. AND the rods I'm making now areatLEAST as fast and responsive as the Garrison tapers I made back then.Thattells me that it certainly has no adverse effect on the cane. (Now go aheadand shoot me down *G*)Art At 08:29 PM 6/16/99 -0400, J. C. Zimny wrote:I do not think it wise or, even, necessary to overheat nodes. The way isslow and gentle - keep testing- then counter bend. Then, wait for the stripto cool. Perhaps, steam is better than dry heat. It heats faster andwithout charring.John Z -----Original Message-----From: michael w. shaffer [SMTP:mschaffer@mindspring.com]Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 3:33 PM Subject: Is it well done yet?? Ok, guys, I've got another question for the list. A little background firstthough: This is my first attempt, so when I got to the heat it then flattenthe nodes and straighten the cane part, I may have gotten a littleoverzealous with the heat! I use a heat gun, but the areas I heated didbecome slightly blackened before I flattened and straightened. Now thatthestrips have their initial 60 degree bevels there is no evidence (to thenaked eye) of the cane having been over 'cooked'. I have looked at Wayne'svideo (ex post facto) ans see that his cane doesn't get toasty! Obviously, the question is whether or not the cane is still viable for usein a rod, or did I make yet another set of chopsticks?? Any input wouldbeappreciated. If everything is OK, then it's on to the oven, if not, it's here we go again!:^) Mike Doc (Mike Shaffer)(mschaffer@mindspring.com) from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Jun 16 20:06:47 1999 Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:06:31 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: FW: Heat Treating I guess so, mine usually just has lint in it. ;-) Tony On Wed, 16 Jun 1999, Brian D. Creek wrote: Tony, Depends entirely upon whose navel one is gazing into, does it not? Brian /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Wed Jun 16 20:14:43 1999 with ESMTP id ;Thu, 17 Jun 1999 01:14:11 +0000 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Is it well done yet?? Steam, huh? I think I like that idea! I guess you can "cook" the waterout later when you throw it all in the old "easy bake" oven. Can't tellyou how many strips I've broken because of overheated nodes... =^) Livin' and learnin' Dennis J. C. Zimny wrote: I do not think it wise or, even, necessary to overheat nodes. The way isslow andgentle - keep testing- then counter bend. Then, wait for the strip to cool.Perhaps,steam is better than dry heat. It heats faster and without charring.John Z -----Original Message-----From: michael w. shaffer [SMTP:mschaffer@mindspring.com]Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 3:33 PM Subject: Is it well done yet?? Ok, guys, I've got another question for the list. A little background firstthough: This is my first attempt, so when I got to the heat it then flattenthe nodes and straighten the cane part, I may have gotten a littleoverzealous with the heat! I use a heat gun, but the areas I heated didbecome slightly blackened before I flattened and straightened. Now thatthestrips have their initial 60 degree bevels there is no evidence (to thenaked eye) of the cane having been over 'cooked'. I have looked at Wayne'svideo (ex post facto) ans see that his cane doesn't get toasty! Obviously, the question is whether or not the cane is still viable for usein a rod, or did I make yet another set of chopsticks?? Any input wouldbeappreciated. If everything is OK, then it's on to the oven, if not, it's here we go again!:^) Mike Doc (Mike Shaffer)(mschaffer@mindspring.com) from djk762@hotmail.com Wed Jun 16 20:38:27 1999 Wed, 16 Jun 1999 18:37:50 PDT Subject: Swelled Butt Rodmakers, Is there a technique you folks use for swelled butts using a standard 5inch between station, .001 per inch taper planning form?I would like to make the 3wt. F.E. Thomas in Howell's book.Also , what would be the proper length seat and grip for this rod so as not to adversely effect its taper? Thanks, David Kashuba _______________________________________________________________> from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Wed Jun 16 20:49:56 1999 (5.5.2448.0) RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Swelled Butt David, I am also thinking of making the 3wt. F.E. Thomas when I can findsome time (I just moved house and can't find anything) so I'd be reallyinterested to hear how you get on. It sounds like a really sweet littlerod. Good luck Mike Roberts -----Original Message----- Subject: Swelled Butt Rodmakers, Is there a technique you folks use for swelled butts using a standard 5inch between station, .001 per inch taper planning form?I would like to make the 3wt. F.E. Thomas in Howell's book.Also , what would be the proper length seat and grip for this rod so as not to adversely effect its taper? Thanks, David Kashuba _______________________________________________________________Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com from jczimny@dol.net Wed Jun 16 22:27:20 1999 0400 "'mschaffer@mindspring.com'","rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: RE: Is it well done yet?? I wouldn't think of shooting at you. The method works too well.John Z -----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Is it well done yet?? John,I've been touting the Bokstrom soak-heat-straighten-let dry methodto anywho will listen. After all the rods I made Garrison's way, I was loath totry anything that even hinted at wetness, but after doing it ONCE, I'llnever go back. The heating is so uniform, so controllable, and so damnedeasy, I'm totally taken with the system. AND the rods I'm making now areatLEAST as fast and responsive as the Garrison tapers I made back then.Thattells me that it certainly has no adverse effect on the cane. (Now go aheadand shoot me down *G*)Art At 08:29 PM 6/16/99 -0400, J. C. Zimny wrote:I do not think it wise or, even, necessary to overheat nodes. The way isslow and gentle - keep testing- then counter bend. Then, wait for the stripto cool. Perhaps, steam is better than dry heat. It heats faster andwithout charring.John Z -----Original Message-----From: michael w. shaffer [SMTP:mschaffer@mindspring.com]Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 3:33 PM Subject: Is it well done yet?? Ok, guys, I've got another question for the list. A little background firstthough: This is my first attempt, so when I got to the heat it then flattenthe nodes and straighten the cane part, I may have gotten a littleoverzealous with the heat! I use a heat gun, but the areas I heated didbecome slightly blackened before I flattened and straightened. Now thatthestrips have their initial 60 degree bevels there is no evidence (to thenaked eye) of the cane having been over 'cooked'. I have looked at Wayne'svideo (ex post facto) ans see that his cane doesn't get toasty! Obviously, the question is whether or not the cane is still viable for usein a rod, or did I make yet another set of chopsticks?? Any input wouldbeappreciated. If everything is OK, then it's on to the oven, if not, it's here we go again!:^) Mike Doc (Mike Shaffer)(mschaffer@mindspring.com) from Nodewrrior@aol.com Wed Jun 16 23:26:00 1999 Subject: Re: Sweet 3wt in Howell's book Speaking of the 3wts in the Lovely Reed, I just finished and cast the 71/2' Devine on pg 45.wow...Sweet rod, smooth and nimble. It'll go 50 feet before pooping out and it's a doll at 10. Just a great easy going action that just screams to catch 8-12" trouts! A real toe-curler!I took the recommended .004 off for varnish, but left the tip at .064. A run through hexrod recommended a #14 on the lower ferrule after the varnishwas accounted for and I went with that in a truncated Super Swiss.Just a wonderful rod with lots of character, everyone should have one(even non fishers!)I I can hold off it's owner, I'll try and bring it to Grayrock. Rob Hoffhines from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Jun 17 02:39:10 1999 Subject: Re: Is it well done yet?? In a message dated 6/16/99 5:53:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time, anglport@con2.com writes: I've been touting the Bokstrom soak-heat-straighten-let dry methodto anywho will listen Don't forget planing soaked strips. The bamboo practically melts off,and a half hour drying you can't tell the difference from a strip that'snever been soaked. I've done it, it works! Darryl from anglport@con2.com Thu Jun 17 07:22:51 1999 Subject: Re: Is it well done yet?? "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Ron and Dennis,I'm sure I'm plagiarizing John and hope he'll jump in if I missanything,but here goes. I got a 7' piece of 4" PVC pipe, capped one end, and filledit with water I lean it up against a 3' step-ladder so it's about at a 30deg angle to the ground. I split pieces his way (Check out FrankNeunemann's Waste of Time at http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/FNeunemann/ ,click "Bamboo Rods", then "Splitting, an Alternate Method". He has John'smethod scanned in) and soak the splits when they're all still double strips( I think John suggests leaving only the tips as doubles when soaking, butI do all).I forgot how long he suggests to leave them in the water (I canfind only a mention of "for tips, when soaked prior to straightening" atthe bottom of pg 2) but I've found that after only 4 or 5 hours, they workREAL well. I pull the double-strips, hold the nodes in front of my heat-gun'til they look dry, throw them in a vise for 5 secs ( rind up) then flipthem 90 deg rind against a jaw and let them sit "squoze" for another 10 or20 secs. I don't actually time the second squeeze, I'm lucky enough to havetwo vises and work two strips at a time so each sits until I've done theheat-squeeze-flip trick on the other strip. Then let 'em dry (at least)over night.I find that the final splitting is much easier to keep centered in theresulting pieces, since the doglegs at the nodes have been all-buteliminated, and I can split closer than I use to be able to so planing timeis reduced. If there IS still an angle at any node, I dry-heat them againafter the final split.I must admit, though, that I don't pre-cut to exact length before theprocess, I just make sure I leave emough width to ensure that the stripswill be wide enough at the station I plan to eventually cut off at andproceed from there. If you can cobble the parts together to try it once, I'm betting you'lluse it forever! Any trough long enough and any vise should do, but I thinkthe heat gun is an absolute necessity.Now go drown some cane (it's WAY more fun than drowning worms!),Art from anglport@con2.com Thu Jun 17 07:56:02 1999 Subject: Re: Is it well done yet?? Hmmmm.... At 03:38 AM 6/17/99 EDT, SalarFly@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 6/16/99 5:53:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time, anglport@con2.com writes: I've been touting the Bokstrom soak-heat-straighten-let dry methodto anywho will listen Don't forget planing soaked strips. The bamboo practically melts off,and a half hour drying you can't tell the difference from a strip that'snever been soaked. I've done it, it works! Darryl from Turbotrk@aol.com Thu Jun 17 08:55:53 1999 Subject: Fwd: FW: Free IPO shares mevans@acxiom.com, stpete@netten.net,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu,estx19@email.mot.com, gaff@corol.net, noverto1@midsouth.rr.com,MLPaulk@centuryinter.net, rsnider@harbingercapital.com,KASHMER3@aol.com boundary="part1_9557bbc.249a57b3_boundary" --part1_9557bbc.249a57b3_boundary In a message dated 99-06-16 10:31:41 EDT, mevans@acxiom.com writes: --part1_9557bbc.249a57b3_boundary 10:31:41 -0400 -0400 (router,SLMail V3.2); Wed, 16 Jun 1999 09:26:07 -0500 (204.107.111.23::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V3.2); Wed, 16 Jun199909:26:07 -0500 popmail.conway.acxiom.com; Wed Jun 16 09:26:06 1999 -0500 (5.5.2448.0) "'Bill Stratton'","'Charlie'" ,"'Carl Hardeman - Personal'" ,"'David Matney'","'Lisa K'" ,"'Stuart Miller'" Subject: FW: Free IPO shares Importance: low Sensitivity: Personal This site looks legit but I'm not sure - I've never heard of this but check itout.(They only ask for public domain information.) A company called PopularLink.com is going public. To enhance itsvisibility,it is giving away shares of stock for free. Registering for free shares isreally easy, just go to the site and enter one of the mirror sites and clickon the 'get free stock' option. You will get 5 shares for registering and 1extra share for each person you recommend it to, who signs up (up to atotalof 20 shares). It's free and they don't ask for any personal information.The last company to try this route is now listed on the NASDAQ. Thatcompanywas Amazon. Yahoo did this as well. Don't wait! Sign up now!Remember to put my email address as reference. Nothing to lose since itisfree.Go to http://www.popularlink.com to get your free stock. Please put in mevans@acxiom.com as your referral. Thanks --part1_9557bbc.249a57b3_boundary-- from eestlow@srminc.com Thu Jun 17 09:09:05 1999 with ESMTP id 1999061709034702:1619 ;Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:03:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Fwd: FW: Free IPO shares 1999) at06/17/9909:13:46 AM,Itemize by SMTP Server on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999)at 06/17/9909:03:47 AM,Serialize by Router on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999) at06/17/9909:03:47 AM,Serialize complete at 06/17/99 09:03:47 AM With due respect, can we keep this kind of stuff off the list? Legitimateor not, it seems to me to be irrelevant to our interests and a potentialviolation of the noncommercial nature of the list. Best regards,Ed Estlow from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Jun 17 09:28:39 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:28:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Swelled Butt Michael, David;I built one of the rods in question, with only a moderately swelledbutt. It works great. Smooth as silk in close and out to about 45'. I usedadouble slide ring seat on cork. The entire grip, including reel seat, is8.25". I think you'll like it.Harry from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Jun 17 09:37:44 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:37:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Is it well done yet?? Art,I'll concur with what Darryl says about planing soaked strips. SteveTrauthwein talked me into trying it, and I doubt I'll ever go back toroughingout dry cane. On wet cane I can take off up to .012-.015" per pass andneverworry about lifting a node. It really goes fast!I did alter my heat-treating regimen a little, though. After I planedwet strips, I bound them into hex and heated at 180 degrees for about 5hours.Then I went through the normal routine of heating at 375*. My thinkingwas toremove much of the water I had introduced at lower temperatures. This isjustsupposition, but it seemed to me that high fast heat with soaking wetcane mightcause internal problems. Didn't Walton Powell or someone say somethingaboutcells rupturing?What did the old Alka-Seltzer commercial say, "Try it, you'll like it." Harry Art Port wrote: Hmmmm.... At 03:38 AM 6/17/99 EDT, SalarFly@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 6/16/99 5:53:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time,anglport@con2.com writes: I've been touting the Bokstrom soak-heat-straighten-let drymethod toanywho will listen Don't forget planing soaked strips. The bamboo practically melts off,and a half hour drying you can't tell the difference from a strip that'snever been soaked. I've done it, it works! Darryl from eestlow@srminc.com Thu Jun 17 09:45:24 1999 with ESMTP id 1999061709400644:1642 ;Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:40:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Is it well done yet?? 1999) at06/17/9909:50:05 AM,Itemize by SMTP Server on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999)at 06/17/9909:40:06 AM,Serialize by Router on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999) at06/17/9909:40:07 AM,Serialize complete at 06/17/99 09:40:07 AM What about tool maintenance with all that water?-Ed Harry Boyd @wugate.wustl.edu on 06/17/99 09:35:02AM Please respond to fbcwin@fsbnet.com Subject: Re: Is it well done yet?? Art,I'll concur with what Darryl says about planing soaked strips.SteveTrauthwein talked me into trying it, and I doubt I'll ever go back toroughingout dry cane. On wet cane I can take off up to .012-.015" per pass andneverworry about lifting a node. It really goes fast!I did alter my heat-treating regimen a little, though. After Iplanedwet strips, I bound them into hex and heated at 180 degrees for about 5hours.Then I went through the normal routine of heating at 375*. My thinkingwastoremove much of the water I had introduced at lower temperatures. This isjustsupposition, but it seemed to me that high fast heat with soaking wetcanemightcause internal problems. Didn't Walton Powell or someone say somethingaboutcells rupturing?What did the old Alka-Seltzer commercial say, "Try it, you'll likeit." Harry Art Port wrote: Hmmmm.... At 03:38 AM 6/17/99 EDT, SalarFly@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 6/16/99 5:53:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time,anglport@con2.com writes: I've been touting the Bokstrom soak-heat-straighten-let drymethod toanywho will listen Don't forget planing soaked strips. The bamboo practically melts off,and a half hour drying you can't tell the difference from a strip that'snever been soaked. I've done it, it works! Darryl from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Thu Jun 17 09:55:26 1999 HAA11730; (5.5.2448.0) Subject: RE: Is it well done yet?? Walt Powell told me that he heats his strips initially at 200 degrees for afew hours toget the moisture out before he cranks up the heat for heat treating. Histhoughts werethat water boils at about 212 degrees at sea level and if heated higherthan thisinitially that the water could turn to steam internally and rupture the cellwall. WhenI tried it with the strips I'm planing now, clouds of moisture came out ofmy oven forquite a while. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-237-1460Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ----------From: Harry Boyd[SMTP:fbcwin@fsbnet.com] Sent: Thursday, June 17, 1999 7:35 AM Cc: SalarFly@aol.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Is it well done yet?? Art,I'll concur with what Darryl says about planing soaked strips. SteveTrauthwein talked me into trying it, and I doubt I'll ever go back toroughingout dry cane. On wet cane I can take off up to .012-.015" per pass andneverworry about lifting a node. It really goes fast!I did alter my heat-treating regimen a little, though. After I planedwet strips, I bound them into hex and heated at 180 degrees for about 5hours.Then I went through the normal routine of heating at 375*. My thinkingwas toremove much of the water I had introduced at lower temperatures. Thisis justsupposition, but it seemed to me that high fast heat with soaking wetcane mightcause internal problems. Didn't Walton Powell or someone say somethingaboutcells rupturing?What did the old Alka-Seltzer commercial say, "Try it, you'll likeit." Harry Art Port wrote: Hmmmm.... At 03:38 AM 6/17/99 EDT, SalarFly@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 6/16/99 5:53:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time,anglport@con2.com writes: I've been touting the Bokstrom soak-heat-straighten-let drymethod toanywho will listen Don't forget planing soaked strips. The bamboo practically melts off,and a half hour drying you can't tell the difference from a strip that'snever been soaked. I've done it, it works! Darryl from tom@cet-inc.com Thu Jun 17 10:02:08 1999 0000 Subject: Re: Is it well done yet?? All this talk of planing wet strips raises a question. Realizing that waterand electric motors don't like each other, has anyone tried wet strips inany of the beveling machines. I know that right after cleaning the holddowns and groove area of my Whitehead beveler with WD 40, the stripsslidethrough a lot easier, maybe wet, or at least damp strips would also workwell. Also, on steel forms, are the strips wet enough to cause problems withrust.It doesn't take much moisture around my forms to cause problems. Tom----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Is it well done yet?? Art,I'll concur with what Darryl says about planing soaked strips.SteveTrauthwein talked me into trying it, and I doubt I'll ever go back toroughingout dry cane. from anglport@con2.com Thu Jun 17 10:16:42 1999 Subject: Re: Is it well done yet?? Tom,I just let it stand a few days before running it through my Medvedtypebeveller. Never noticed a problem I thought was caused by moisture. I'vehad a few DOOZIES when I got too aggressive with the depth of cut though!Sheeeshshshshs!Art At 11:10 AM 6/17/99 -0400, Tom Whittle wrote:All this talk of planing wet strips raises a question. > from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Jun 17 10:26:59 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Thu, 17 Jun 1999 10:26:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Is it well done yet?? Ed, Tom;My roughing forms are wooden, so no problems there. I do hose down myplanes with WD 40 before and after planing wet cane. They still oxidizeslightly, so I brighten the soles on 1000 grit sandpaper before going to thefinal forms.Harry eestlow@srminc.com wrote: What about tool maintenance with all that water?-Ed Harry Boyd @wugate.wustl.edu on 06/17/9909:35:02 AM Please respond to fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sent by: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu cc: SalarFly@aol.com, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Is it well done yet?? Art,I'll concur with what Darryl says about planing soaked strips.SteveTrauthwein talked me into trying it, and I doubt I'll ever go back toroughingout dry cane. On wet cane I can take off up to .012-.015" per pass andneverworry about lifting a node. It really goes fast!I did alter my heat-treating regimen a little, though. After Iplanedwet strips, I bound them into hex and heated at 180 degrees for about 5hours.Then I went through the normal routine of heating at 375*. My thinkingwastoremove much of the water I had introduced at lower temperatures. Thisisjustsupposition, but it seemed to me that high fast heat with soaking wetcanemightcause internal problems. Didn't Walton Powell or someone say somethingaboutcells rupturing?What did the old Alka-Seltzer commercial say, "Try it, you'll likeit." Harry Art Port wrote: Hmmmm.... At 03:38 AM 6/17/99 EDT, SalarFly@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 6/16/99 5:53:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time,anglport@con2.com writes: I've been touting the Bokstrom soak-heat-straighten-let drymethod toanywho will listen Don't forget planing soaked strips. The bamboo practically melts off,and a half hour drying you can't tell the difference from a strip that'snever been soaked. I've done it, it works! Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Jun 17 10:52:47 1999 Subject: Re: Is it well done yet?? In a message dated 6/17/99 7:49:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time, eestlow@srminc.com writes: What about tool maintenance with all that water?- A little surface rust doesn't affect a thing, but don't put your tools awaywet. A little WD-40 sprayed on a rag, then wipe them down when youquit for the night is all you need. Darryl from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Thu Jun 17 13:58:10 1999 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id NAA24034 for (8.8.4/8.6.8) withSMTP id NAA30542 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 Subject: Limit to long, light rods? I've gotten the impression that its difficult to make a long, lightcane rod (eg. a 8ft 3wt). What doesn't work in rods like this?Is it the construction or the performance or ??? What do people find is the practical limit for light line rods?......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from jlintvet@erols.com Thu Jun 17 14:10:35 1999 Subject: Tom Whittle I am looking for Tom's phone number. I would appreciate it if someonecoulddrop it to me privately. Jon Lintvet (Munro Rod Company)(800) 836-7558www.munrorodco.com from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Jun 17 14:21:56 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Thu, 17 Jun 1999 14:21:50 -0500 Art Port Subject: Re: Is it well done yet?? Art,Re-read your post and thought of something others might want toconsider. Iuse a piece of pvc tube, like you. Not long ago I got side- tracked and leftsomestrips in water for 4 days. In our Louisiana heat, that's a mistake! When Iopenedthe tube, a really funky smell nearly knocked me down. My guess is thatthe littletiny bit of mold on the strips had started to grow again. I threw thosestrips out,and now add a little bleach to the tube to kill (or at least discourage) anymoldthat might be present.Any other "soakers" had similar experiences? Harry from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Jun 17 14:35:39 1999 Subject: Re: Limit to long, light rods? RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 6/17/99 7:00:07 PM, stetzer@csd.uwm.edu wrote: Frank - I have not tried an 8 foot 3 weight, but I think you could get away with it, and still have a reasonable rod. The general problem with long, light rods is that if you want to maintain a reasonably fast action, ittakes a lot of cane for the rod to support it's own length, and the rod feels disproportionately heavy for it's line weight. This leaves you with the options of going to a slow action to save weight, or hollow building. If I were going for an 8 foot 3 weight, I think I would hollow build the butt, beefing up the butt dimensions a bit to compensate for the hollowing.On the other hand, I once traded a 9 1/2 foot 3 weight to Reed Curry. The thing had a very slow, slender taper, and felt light in the hand. So it can be done, but few other than Reed appreciate such a taper. from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Thu Jun 17 15:17:19 1999 NAA13912 (5.5.2448.0) does anybody know of a source of nickel silver wire for making guideswith the LeClairsnake maker? I have piano wire but a friend would like a rod with nickelsilver guides. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-237-1460Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from johanyga@online.no Thu Jun 17 15:23:57 1999 (MET DST) Subject: Test Test. Johan Nygaardsvold from hartzell@easystreet.com Thu Jun 17 16:25:01 1999 Subject: Re: Nickel silver wire is available from jewelry supply houses such as S. LaRose, Inc. 3223Yanceyville St. P.O. Box 21208 Greensboro, N.C 27420. Tel: (910) 621-1936. It comes inassorted sizes about six inches long, but you can always find a use for thepieces thatare too thick or too thin for guides.. But the guy is asking for troublesince the wireis so soft that it will wear very quickly.Ed Hartzell Coffey, Patrick W wrote: does anybody know of a source of nickel silver wire for making guideswith the LeClairsnake maker? I have piano wire but a friend would like a rod with nickelsilver guides. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-237-1460Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from Turbotrk@aol.com Thu Jun 17 16:44:04 1999 Subject: Sorry to the List I did not mead to post that responce to the list. Somehow I posted it and did not mean to. Sorry Stuart Miller from rcurry@ttlc.net Thu Jun 17 17:25:45 1999 (SMTPD32-5.01) id A65273530124; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:27:30 EDT RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Limit to long, light rods? Tom,Harrumph, "few other than Reed", indeed. I actually had Carlos Santoscastingthat rod...and enjoying it. [Alas, no photos available.]I searched for years for a 9' 3wt. Some considered such a thingimpossible ina dryfly action (lots of light line rods were made in wetfly actions).Hawesseemed to have been the only one focussing on such tapers, and his rodsareextremely rare. Fortunately, Tom found, and restored, that beauty. Irecentlytook a number of decent fish - browns, brooks, and (my favorite) smallies,infast water on this rod and landed them with no problem (except forproblems thatwere my own doing).I cordially invite others to enjoy the benefits of lo-o- ong rods. Someareslow, 'tis true, but that doesn't mean wimpy. I'll bring a few to Grayrock.Best regards,ReedBTW- I have an 8' 3wt that is not heavy and not slow. The action takessomegetting used to, I admit, but it will throw a tight loop.Tom, I finished an 8'4" 3/2 Halstead 6wt that throws an awesome line. Ican'twait to see you cast it. TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 6/17/99 7:00:07 PM, stetzer@csd.uwm.edu wrote: Frank - I have not tried an 8 foot 3 weight, but I think you could getawaywith it, and still have a reasonable rod. The general problem with long,light rods is that if you want to maintain a reasonably fast action, ittakesa lot of cane for the rod to support it's own length, and the rod feelsdisproportionately heavy for it's line weight. This leaves you with theoptions of going to a slow action to save weight, or hollow building.If I were going for an 8 foot 3 weight, I think I would hollow build thebutt, beefing up the butt dimensions a bit to compensate for thehollowing.On the other hand, I once traded a 9 1/2 foot 3 weight to Reed Curry. Thething had a very slow, slender taper, and felt light in the hand. So it canbe done, but few other than Reed appreciate such a taper. from DBurrill@telehub.net Thu Jun 17 17:29:11 1999 Subject: Divine Website Listers,I've assembled a page on my passion: Divine Rods. If interested,please take a look: http:/www.burrill-ltd.divine. Thanks. from rcurry@ttlc.net Thu Jun 17 17:30:05 1999 (SMTPD32-5.01) id A7582FD0214; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:31:52 EDT Subject: Re: Limit to long, light rods? Frank,I find anything over 10'6" to be impractical in a single hander.However, that was a lady's rod at the turn of the century.I have a 10'6" 4wt. but you might not be sufficiently relaxed to enjoythe experience of casting it.Best regards,ReedP.S. - I'll try and fit a 15' 10wt into the car for Grayrock. Frank Stetzer wrote: I've gotten the impression that its difficult to make a long, lightcane rod (eg. a 8ft 3wt). What doesn't work in rods like this?Is it the construction or the performance or ??? What do peoplefind is the practical limit for light line rods?......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from DBurrill@telehub.net Thu Jun 17 17:38:05 1999 Subject: RE: Divine Website - Corrected Why is it that whenever you post a web page address to the list you mis- typeit? The correct address is: http://www.burrill-ltd/divineThanks. -----Original Message----- Subject: Divine Website Listers,I've assembled a page on my passion: Divine Rods. If interested,please take a look: http:/www.burrill-ltd.divine. Thanks. from DBurrill@telehub.net Thu Jun 17 17:44:11 1999 Subject: RE: Divine Website - Last time... Try it again: http://www.burrill-ltd.com/divine -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Divine Website - Corrected Why is it that whenever you post a web page address to the list you mis- typeit? The correct address is: http://www.burrill-ltd/divineThanks. -----Original Message----- Subject: Divine Website Listers,I've assembled a page on my passion: Divine Rods. If interested,please take a look: http:/www.burrill-ltd.divine. Thanks. from darrelll@earthlink.net Thu Jun 17 17:46:41 1999 us.dialup.earthlink.net Subject: Re: Divine Website Hi Dean, Can't seem to access your site... I corrected the one typo, but still noluck... how about a repost... Darrell-----Original Message----- Subject: Divine Website Listers,I've assembled a page on my passion: Divine Rods. If interested,please take a look: http:/www.burrill-ltd.divine. Thanks. from darrelll@earthlink.net Thu Jun 17 17:51:24 1999 us.dialup.earthlink.net Subject: Attention... John Channer... John, Lost your email and snail mail address... Could you please contact me off list, I have a present for you inappreciation of your past help... Thanks, Darrell from anglport@con2.com Thu Jun 17 18:39:41 1999 Subject: RE: Divine Website - Last time... Nice job, Dean.Art from brookie@frii.com Thu Jun 17 18:50:52 1999 Subject: RE: Divine Website - Last time... At 05:36 PM 6/17/99 -0500, you wrote:Try it again: http://www.burrill- ltd.com/divine Divine Rods ! truely using the adjective here ! Great site, so good, Iforwarded url to work and will check it out tomorrow. I personally havealways wanted to find a site where all the great 'old' cane rodmaker androds were displayed this thoroughly! with good pictures too. good forSinclair. :-) thanks,sue from saltwein@swbell.net Thu Jun 17 19:31:32 1999 gw3.rcsntx.swbell.net TAA22829 Subject: Re: Is it well done yet?? Harry Boyd wrote: Art,Re-read your post and thought of something others might want toconsider. Iuse a piece of pvc tube, like you. Not long ago I got side- tracked and leftsomestrips in water for 4 days. In our Louisiana heat, that's a mistake! WhenI openedthe tube, a really funky smell nearly knocked me down. My guess is thatthe littletiny bit of mold on the strips had started to grow again. I threw thosestrips out,and now add a little bleach to the tube to kill (or at least discourage)any moldthat might be present.Any other "soakers" had similar experiences? Harry, I leave my strips in the water the whole time I am working them. I domy buildinghit and miss as time allows and strips can be in the water for some time.I have neverhad any odor problems but I notice the water will turn a little yellow, asthoughleaching something from the cane. I change the water in the bath whenthis occurs.I use an open bath to soak my strips. I built a small box (3"x4"x5') fromplywoodand lined it with an old shower curtain, works fine.I use wood forms for my final planing as well as initial planing and thedamp stripsliterally grip the wood and eliminate the problem of strips sliding whileplaning. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from MasjC1@aol.com Thu Jun 17 20:07:22 1999 Subject: Re: Is it well done yet?? Harry, I had a similar experience, but not to the degree that you did. Like you, I let the strips sit for over 24 hours. When I pulled them out of the tube there was no odor but several had a white fuzz. Since it was not too bad I went ahead and did the flatten-straighten-plane-to-60-degrees. I thenbound and heat treated. There has been no sign of a return of the fuzz. The acid test will come after July 10 when I test the rods on Colorado browns and cutthroats. When I soak now I try to just do it over night. Taking each strip to an initial 60 degrees while wet sure speeds up the process. Mark from bjust@bellsouth.net Thu Jun 17 21:20:21 1999 WAA22150 Subject: unsubscribe I'm going to be gone for a week. ThanksBrian Justiss from DBurrill@telehub.net Thu Jun 17 21:53:52 1999 Subject: A Divine Thanks... Thanks for all the positive comments on the site. In my previous post Imeant to publicly thank Chris Wohlford for his efforts on the rod tip imagethat graces the top of each page. (Incidentally the tip is from a DivineTournament model.) Again, thank you all. I'll shut up now. from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Thu Jun 17 22:31:20 1999 (5.5.2448.0) "Roberts, Michael",David Kashuba Subject: RE: Swelled Butt Harry,thanks for the good report. I'll make this one the next cab off therank......when I manage to find where the leader of the opposition has putmy plane etc.It's probably in a perfectly logical place like next to the fish food on thetop shelf of the linen cupboard, which I think is in the garage. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Swelled Butt Michael, David;I built one of the rods in question, with only a moderately swelledbutt. It works great. Smooth as silk in close and out to about 45'. Iused adouble slide ring seat on cork. The entire grip, including reel seat, is8.25". I think you'll like it.Harry from cattanac@wmis.net Fri Jun 18 00:29:54 1999 mail4.wmis.net(8.8.8/SCO5) with SMTP id BAA12919 for ;Fri, 18 Jun 1999 Subject: Life in the Cave to include the Hexrod download - I am at version 175 with a few fixes.Hopefully this next week (aka Grayrock) will include some conversationswithLarry Blan and Jerry Foster on some screen issues.Our little fishin' buddy(Lyndi) and I are packed and ready to head northafter I get home from work tomorrow night - I look forward to seeing themany folks that will be arriving over this next week. The all importantHexHatch stalled a few days ago - tonight the temperature is to set an alltimelow for the date - into next week the temps are to be normal again andwiththat many are feeling that the hatch will bloom :-) - fish on !!!Reed - I have a new reel of unique character for you - A working H-Iautomatic - a reel classic -I wish everyone a safe passage to Grayrock Wayne from gerry56@cnl.com.au Fri Jun 18 06:52:30 1999 Subject: Unsubscribe boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00FE_01BEB9D4.DB0CB140" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00FE_01BEB9D4.DB0CB140 Please UNSUBSCRIBE me from this list. Thank you ------=_NextPart_000_00FE_01BEB9D4.DB0CB140 Please UNSUBSCRIBE me from list. Thank you ------=_NextPart_000_00FE_01BEB9D4.DB0CB140-- from angelruten@smile.ch Fri Jun 18 11:01:40 1999 Fri, 18 Jun 1999 17:58:04 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: culm splitter 7D0FC0C9012AFEAB0E196D48" Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format.-------------- 7D0FC0C9012AFEAB0E196D48 Hi rodmaking friends some weeks ago i asked for a culm splitter. thanks for all the mailsabout the hida-tool company. meanwhile i found another source, mabye"more internet- friendly", with ane-mail account and payment-possibilies trough her website - i receivedan answer immediately: Gib CooperTradewinds Bamboo Nursery28446 Hunter Creek LoopGold Beach, OR 97444Tel & FAX: 541/247-0835Web Site: http://www.harborside.com/bamboo/ the splitters - pic is in the attach in stock is the 3`the 4`and the 6`splitter - others up to 12 on request.prices are reasonable. Sincerly Stefan/Switzerland ---------------------------------------------------------------Sicherheits-Hinweis: Diese elektronische Post ist nur fèr den oder die Empf€nger, welchein der Adress-Zeile genannt werden bestimmt!Falls Sie nicht zu diesen gehåren, verståsst jede- unerlaubte Kopie,- unerlaubte Weiterleitung,- unerlaubte Kenntnisnahme, auch vermutlich oeffentlicher Inhalte,- und unerlaubte Verbreitung der enthaltenen Nachricht(en),sowie jeder anderer unautorisierte Gebrauch gegen geltendes Recht. Falls Sie nicht zu den in der Adresszeile genannten Empf€nger(n)gehåren,so bitten wir Sie um Kontaktnahme des Absenders und Zerstårungder betreffenden Daten von Ihrem Computer._________________________________________ Security-Note: The information transmitted is intended only for the personor entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidentialand/or privileged material.Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, ortaking of any action in reliance upon, this information bypersons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.If you received this in error, please contact the sender and deletethe material from any computer. --------------7D0FC0C9012AFEAB0E196D48 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-------------- 7D0FC0C9012AFEAB0E196D48-- from GROMBACHERA@phibred.com Fri Jun 18 12:38:00 1999 0500 smap (V4.2) Subject: Italian wine cork source Hey Guys, I have a buddy in Aviano with NATO. He has found a source of cork at alocal hardware store. He says the quality of the cork is amazing. He saysthe cork is about 1.25 inches thick and as long a wine cork. He figuresabout 3 corks for a handle. Anyone ever use cork in this form? He also discovered that what he thought was copper pot section in thehardware store is actually the "buy your own still section". Apparentlyyoucan make your own small quantities of shine at home in Italy. So in Italy, you can make your own bamboo rod and your very own singlemalt.What a country! Alberta Al from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Jun 18 12:49:27 1999 Subject: RE: Italian wine cork source Hey Alberta Al, Italians use the still to make Grappa, a type ofItalian brandy made from the skin and pits of winegrapes. Guaranteed to put hair on your chest! Drinkonly in well-ventilated areas. Seriously, though, it's quite good. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Behalf Of Grombacher, AlanSent: Friday, June 18, 1999 1:37 PM Subject: Italian wine cork source Hey Guys, I have a buddy in Aviano with NATO. He hasfound a source of cork at alocal hardware store. He says the qualityof the cork is amazing. He saysthe cork is about 1.25 inches thick and aslong a wine cork. He figuresabout 3 corks for a handle. Anyone ever use cork in this form? He also discovered that what he thought wascopper pot section in thehardware store is actually the "buy yourown still section". Apparently youcan make your own small quantities of shineat home in Italy. So in Italy, you can make your own bamboorod and your very own single malt.What a country! Alberta Al from jaquin@netsync.net Fri Jun 18 16:25:03 1999 Subject: test test only from saltwein@swbell.net Fri Jun 18 17:40:49 1999 gw1.rcsntx.swbell.net RAA22124 Subject: Fish Story! Hi All, On vacation this week and with the honey-do's and various projects havenot had a lot of time to relax. I grabbed my "Sir D" this morning andheaded to a friends pond to pull out a few bass and gills. Nothingserious just a little relaxation. I had been there several hours and caught 30/35 fish and even managed toget in a game of pool with my friend, while resting the casting arm. Iwas back at the pond when Wills' mom came down and started talking tome. I had just cast the little wooly I had on back in to the pond, so Isat the rod down and left it in the water as I visited with her. I picked the rod up and noticed I had a fish on right away. It didn'ttake long to realize it was no ordinary fish,s the little 7' bamboo bentover radically. I hollered across the yard to my friend, who brought hisnet from the garage and 25 minutes later he scooped out the flatheadthat had picked up my fly. He was 32" long, 20" in girth and weighed in at 17 lbs. A really niceday at the pond! Sorry for the band width but I had to share. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from MasjC1@aol.com Fri Jun 18 18:39:38 1999 Subject: Re: Fish Story! Steve, What shape was the rod in at the end to this struggle? Mark from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Sat Jun 19 07:19:33 1999 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id AAA12727; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 00:19:13 +1200 Subject: Re: Fish Story! Steve, I tried to think of a good story to explain how we do this all the time inNew Zealand .... but could not . Very well done !!!! and it is necessary to share these stories with those who understand ..SHMBO often does not . Regards Ian Kearney At 05:42 PM 18/06/99 -0700, Steve Trauthwein wrote:Hi All, On vacation this week and with the honey-do's and various projects havenot had a lot of time to relax. I grabbed my "Sir D" this morning andheaded to a friends pond to pull out a few bass and gills. Nothingserious just a little relaxation. I had been there several hours and caught 30/35 fish and even managed toget in a game of pool with my friend, while resting the casting arm. Iwas back at the pond when Wills' mom came down and started talking tome. I had just cast the little wooly I had on back in to the pond, so Isat the rod down and left it in the water as I visited with her. I picked the rod up and noticed I had a fish on right away. It didn'ttake long to realize it was no ordinary fish,s the little 7' bamboo bentover radically. I hollered across the yard to my friend, who brought hisnet from the garage and 25 minutes later he scooped out the flatheadthat had picked up my fly. He was 32" long, 20" in girth and weighed in at 17 lbs. A really niceday at the pond! Sorry for the band width but I had to share. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from Craig.Naldrett@ibm.net Sat Jun 19 13:23:51 1999 out1.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA277698 for;Sat, 19 Jun 1999 18:23:47 GMT Subject: Selecting Strips Is there any convention/reason for selecting strips from a split culm. strip clockwise of check split # 1, next clockwise # 2 etc. does tip # 1consist of strips 1-6, tip # 2 7-12, tip # 3 13-18 etc.or can asemi-random selection of strips be O.K.(assuming node staggering, 5" from ferrules/tip top is satisfied). I'm wondering about using opposingstrips, thinking one side of culm may be stronger than another therbybalancing weak/strong sides.Any thoughts/experiences?CheersCraig from robert.kope@cwix.com Sat Jun 19 16:50:02 1999 with SMTP id forRODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 21:49:26 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Selecting Strips Garrison advocated using strips from around the culm in order. If yousplita culm into 24 strips, you would use strips numbered 1, 5, 9, 13, 17, and21in that order. I get the impression that many contemporary rod makers tryto do this. I don't. I try to use adjacent strips on opposited sides ofthe rod. I generally use 2X2X2 staggering and figure that if one node tendsto bend to the left, I want a node tending to bend to the right on theopposite side. Productions builders like Granger and Heddon didn't evenusestrips from the same culm, and George Maurer has written about building"Frankenstein" rods from left over strips mixing butt and tip strips fromdifferent culms. These seem to work just fine. The bottom line is that Idon't think it makes much difference. -- Robert-----Original Message----- Subject: Selecting Strips Is there any convention/reason for selecting strips from a split culm. strip clockwise of check split # 1, next clockwise # 2 etc. does tip # 1consist of strips 1-6, tip # 2 7-12, tip # 3 13-18 etc.or can asemi-random selection of strips be O.K.(assuming node staggering, 5" from ferrules/tip top is satisfied). I'm wondering about using opposingstrips, thinking one side of culm may be stronger than another therbybalancing weak/strong sides.Any thoughts/experiences?CheersCraig from fiveside@net-gate.com Sat Jun 19 18:28:09 1999 ns1.net-gate.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA26581 for; Subject: Re: Off the Subject Thanks to all who responded with suggestions for fixing fly-tyingbobbinsthat cut thread. I tried many of the fixes with no success. Guess I'll justbuy ceramin bobbins and throw out the offenders. One suggestion was to use felt tips. Am not sure what they are. Anotherwas to use jewelers rouge. Not having any I tried the compound used forsharpening irons on the leather wheel. Would that make a difference? Andwhat is W--M---?Anyway it's a trivial problem. Thanks again..Bill from teekay35@interlynx.net Sat Jun 19 19:58:52 1999 Subject: Re: Selecting Strips I used to worry about where the strips came from on the culm, but I don'tany more. I concentrate on getting two sets of tips with matched nodespacing. I haven't noticed any notable differences in glue up, need forstraightening glued sections, or rod performance. ----------From: Craig Naldrett Subject: Selecting StripsDate: Saturday, June 19, 1999 2:22 PM Is there any convention/reason for selecting strips from a split culm. strip clockwise of check split # 1, next clockwise # 2 etc. does tip # 1consist of strips 1-6, tip # 2 7-12, tip # 3 13-18 etc.or can asemi-random selection of strips be O.K.(assuming node staggering, 5" from ferrules/tip top is satisfied). I'm wondering about using opposingstrips, thinking one side of culm may be stronger than another therbybalancing weak/strong sides.Any thoughts/experiences?CheersCraig from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sat Jun 19 21:12:57 1999 Subject: Two different rods, part two A short time ago, I compared the two rods I recentlybuilt: an 8 ft 5 wt built on a Young para 15 taper(heavy tip) and a 7ft 4 wt built on a Granger taper. Imentioned that the Granger casts itself but the parawas tough rod to cast well, producing either wide ortailing loops. Since then, I've spent the time thepara 15 deserves casting at the park and on somewater. So, here's an update of my review of the para15. Having fished mostly fast graphite rods for 20 years,and fairly fast cane rods for the past 2-3 years, thepara certainly feels different. I realized aftercasting for a while that I needed to make threechanges to casting stroke to make the para sing:1. since the rod bends more deeply than a fast actionrod, I needed to let the rod load for a longer amountof time on the backcast. I was instinctively beginningmy forward cast when I'd feel the rod load upon whenthe line would straighten. But in fact, it continuesto load past the time where you feel that pull so youneed to wait a while longer;2. let my arm drift back farther on the backcast;3. slow down my double haul. I knew I needed to slowmy casting stroke down to cast this rod, but didn'trealize the double haul needs to be much slower too.Instead of down-up, it's more like dowwwn-uuuup. My tailing loops are gone and my casting loop is a bittighter (although I still doubt you can get a reallytight loop casting this rod with the heavy tip). I cannow throw 70-80 ft in a slight breeze without mucheffort which is pretty impressive for a 5 wt. It's agood rod where long casts are often needed, such as onlakes or large rivers. It isn't the first rod I'dchoose where pinpoint accuracy is needed though, asthe somewhat wider loop makes dropping the fly righton a small target a bit tough. The dry fly tip wouldlikely solve that problem though. All in all, my recent time spent getting to know thepara 15 has made me reconsider parabolic rods. Infact, I'm once again considering building a DriggsRiver next fall. Richard from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Jun 20 02:54:38 1999 Sun, 20 Jun 1999 15:53:41 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: Two different rods, part two Richard,because the driggs is a shorter rod and a different taper besides it's abit quicker and more "compact" than the para 15, more wand like. IMHO abetter rod in the para breed. Tony On Sat, 19 Jun 1999, Richard Nantel wrote: A short time ago, I compared the two rods I recentlybuilt: an 8 ft 5 wt built on a Young para 15 taper(heavy tip) and a 7ft 4 wt built on a Granger taper. Imentioned that the Granger casts itself but the parawas tough rod to cast well, producing either wide ortailing loops. Since then, I've spent the time thepara 15 deserves casting at the park and on somewater. So, here's an update of my review of the para15. Having fished mostly fast graphite rods for 20 years,and fairly fast cane rods for the past 2-3 years, thepara certainly feels different. I realized aftercasting for a while that I needed to make threechanges to casting stroke to make the para sing:1. since the rod bends more deeply than a fast actionrod, I needed to let the rod load for a longer amount> of time on thebackcast. I was instinctively beginningmy forward cast when I'd feel the rod load upon whenthe line would straighten. But in fact, it continuesto load past the time where you feel that pull so youneed to wait a while longer;2. let my arm drift back farther on the backcast;3. slow down my double haul. I knew I needed to slowmy casting stroke down to cast this rod, but didn'trealize the double haul needs to be much slower too.Instead of down-up, it's more like dowwwn-uuuup. My tailing loops are gone and my casting loop is a bittighter (although I still doubt you can get a reallytight loop casting this rod with the heavy tip). I cannow throw 70-80 ft in a slight breeze without mucheffort which is pretty impressive for a 5 wt. It's agood rod where long casts are often needed, such as onlakes or large rivers. It isn't the first rod I'dchoose where pinpoint accuracy is needed though, asthe somewhat wider loop makes dropping the fly righton a small target a bit tough. The dry fly tip wouldlikely solve that problem though. All in all, my recent time spent getting to know thepara 15 has made me reconsider parabolic rods. Infact, I'm once again considering building a DriggsRiver next fall. Richard /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from brookie@frii.com Sun Jun 20 13:38:49 1999 Subject: casting length of cane I have to ask, Is the casting distance of cane the same as graphite ?I see where folks might be casting long distances w/cane rods. In the 50'+ range. Typically I fish small creeks at high altitude in Colorado,so 30' is a long distance. The cane I have performs greatat that. Flinging line out longer would, in the parlance of 60's,"freak me out". Curious, how far do most of you cast when fishing with YOURcane ? suecolorado from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sun Jun 20 14:53:51 1999 Subject: Re: casting length of cane I usually fish in the same 30-35 ft range and make my rods to performtheir best there...actually, I think we all do and always have. But getting 50+' out on your own rod is a great feeling although usually reserved for lawn casting in my experience.My big 9wt bonefish rod is a plastic-a great Scott by the way- will cast a whole line despite my short range oriented style of casting. That is what that rod does best, and is what's needed.I've been slowly developing a smallmouth rod to cast clouser minnow at40-60' with ease. prototype #1 was pretty good but...we'll see.I feel what bamboo does is so wonderfully in the under 40' range. Thecontrol and wide range of manipulation is just sooo good. There was one cast I pulled off on the frying pan with my #1 rod a fewyears ago that not only was really long and accurate with a mend already in it,but produced a nice Frying pan Brown...that is a special kind of rewarding. just my .02over-n-out Rob Hoffhines from johanyga@online.no Sun Jun 20 18:22:16 1999 Mon, 21 Jun 1999 01:22:09 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: SV: casting length of cane Sue K.I've been casting canes and graphites for at least twenty years, and I cansee no differences when it comes to lenght. In my collection of 60+ canerods there is just one rod which is not able to shoot all the line throughthe guides and that's the Hardy Marvel 7' 6''. This famous rod is notsupposed for long distance casting, I think. The other rods I have boughtand built myself have no problems putting out 80 - 90 feet.I'm now a paraholic and with my Martha Marie 7' 6' I can cover all waterwith a TT 5/6 Johan Nygaardsvold Norway ----------Fra: Sue K. Til: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduEmne: casting length of cane I have to ask, Is the casting distance of cane the same as graphite ?I see where folks might be casting long distances w/cane rods. In the 50'+ range. Typically I fish small creeks at high altitude in Colorado,so 30' is a long distance. The cane I have performs greatat that. Flinging line out longer would, in the parlance of 60's,"freak me out". Curious, how far do most of you cast when fishing with YOURcane ? suecolorado from rcurry@ttlc.net Sun Jun 20 18:26:44 1999 (SMTPD32-5.01) id A8F653A0010A; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 19:27:50 EDT Subject: Re: casting length of cane Sue,Back East we usually keep casts to 30-40 feet on the rivers, butoccasionallyyou must reach out with a bass bug on a lake; even this would only be 55'.I have some cane rods that I have seen (not in my hand) shoot a wholeline;but never have I found application for it around here.I remember reading about a "clever" newcomer to a well-known fishinglodgewho tired of hearing about all the fish caught on 60' casts. He measuredoff 60'and then challenged anyone to cast it (this was before the common use ofshootingtapers). No one made the mark. The upstart was ejected from the club andbraggingcasts promptly restored.What amazes me is the need many people have for tight loops and highlinespeeds when most of their casts will be across 10 varying currents andmax out at40'. I once watched a fellow casting to a rising fish in just such asituation.He was driving straight, precise casts 2' upstream of the fish's lie, butonlygot a 6" drag free drift. Had he cast slower and put the lazy S into it hemighthave managed 3' of drift.Best regards,Reed from johanyga@online.no Sun Jun 20 18:33:42 1999 Mon, 21 Jun 1999 01:33:37 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: SV: casting length of cane Sue K.I forgot to mention it, but I use the dowwwwwn uuuupp method.J.N. ----------Fra: Sue K. Til: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduEmne: casting length of cane I have to ask, Is the casting distance of cane the same as graphite ?I see where folks might be casting long distances w/cane rods. In the 50'+ range. Typically I fish small creeks at high altitude in Colorado,so 30' is a long distance. The cane I have performs greatat that. Flinging line out longer would, in the parlance of 60's,"freak me out". Curious, how far do most of you cast when fishing with YOURcane ? suecolorado from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sun Jun 20 18:49:33 1999 Subject: RE: casting length of cane Sue, It depends on the water. For small trout streams, 30feet is plenty. For lakes, 50 ft is often too shortsince you want to cover as much water as possible. Ioften fish an area near Montreal where the wading isvery tough. The only way to reach some lies (withoutdrowning in the process) is to cast as far aspossible, 70-80 ft. The biggest perk to making yourown rods is the ability to have the perfect rod forspecific water. I can't imagine owning only one rodand fishing all these different water types. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Behalf Of Sue K.Sent: Sunday, June 20, 1999 2:37 PM Subject: casting length of cane I have to ask, Is the casting distance of cane the same asgraphite ?I see where folks might be casting long distances w/cane rods. In the 50'+ range. Typically I fish small creeks at highaltitude in Colorado,so 30' is a long distance. The cane I haveperforms greatat that. Flinging line out longer would, in theparlance of 60's,"freak me out". Curious, how far do most of you cast whenfishing with YOURcane ? suecolorado from brookie@frii.com Mon Jun 21 06:53:12 1999 Subject: casting length *and* set one more on this, then i'll be quiet, re the long distancecasting with cane, appears that on big rivers and lakes,with the 'right' cane, folks do cast the distances. Thesecond part of the question then, playing a fish from thatdistance .... wouldn't that tend to put a set in the rod?Having finally realized the cane is not going to break,no more / less than graphite for example if handled properly,the issue would be the set. and while I'm talking set, pop in with a question; broke oneof the ferrules about a month ago, took it in to have itrepaired and was told when I picked it up, " I fixed thatslight set in the tip too " . here we are a month later IHAVE fished several times with it and *I* think I notice aset, slight, but there. no large fish for this cane yet, can't be that ; don't playthe fish long time, nor raise rod up straight over shoulder. is 'setting' inherent in some cane ? and what might makethat the case ? the build up of the cane, the taper, theprior owner's care ? if the set were fixed a month ago,you wouldn't think it would be prior owner. just curious,suecolorado from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Jun 21 08:07:58 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Mon, 21 Jun 1999 08:07:47 -0500 Subject: Re: casting length *and* set Sue,This ought to stir the pot a little. But that's great.Things are too quiet on the list lately. My opinion, and it'sjust from personal experience, no scientific data, is that no wellmade rod should regularly "take a set". heat treated as per Wayne's regimen, has caught quite a few bigfish. I have pictures of a 22" brown, a 26" brown, and a 19"football shaped rainbow all caught the same day. (Yes, WhiteRiver Arkansas fishing can be great!) The rainbow fought harderthan the two browns combined. Using 6x tippet, the 'bow tookabout 150' of backing, twice. The rod is still straight as anarrow.Back in my younger days when I fished for spawning browns(don't do that no more!) I used a Leonard 50DF one day and caught16 fish, all from 18-23 inches. That rod never took a set. Andno, I don't often turn the rod over, reel up, when fighting fish.But I do fight fish with the butt of the rod rather than the tip.I keep the butt at about a 45* angle. When you fight a fish likethat, most of the bend in the rod is in the middle. The tip staysalmost straight. Maybe that makes a difference.If "setting" is inherent in some cane rods, then thoserods were probably not heat-treated correctly while being made. Okay, gang, let's hear your thoughts on this..... Harry The second part of the question then, playing a fish from thatdistance .... wouldn't that tend to put a set in the rod? is 'setting' inherent in some cane ? and what might makethat the case ? the build up of the cane, the taper, theprior owner's care ? if the set were fixed a month ago,you wouldn't think it would be prior owner. from angelruten@smile.ch Mon Jun 21 10:23:29 1999 (MET DST) Subject: Morgan Mill for sale! 3D85438286E82849A1986AA4" --------------3D85438286E82849A1986AA4 Hi Friends I have a "Tom Morgan Mill" for sale! Nothing against Tom and hiswonderfil invention, but as a prof. rodbuilder, the mill is to slow forme an my growing business - think i need a electric beveler for all thepreplaning work.But from my opinion, the mill is really faster than a hand plane if youdo "wet- milling" and the mill cuts two sides of the spline at once!Must truly say, that i never see such an "plane/mill" who makes an soaccurate work! No And that`s the thing i shure will regret..... The Mill is excact 1/2 year old, very seldom used and comes with extra61 deg. - replacement-cutters. The Mill is the version for hex-rods.I paid ca. CHF 3500.- incl. shipping, my offer is now 2500.-Swiss-Francs, excl. Postage and sending to other countrys thanSwitzerland. Because the shipping costs, think it`s most interesting for europeanmakers, and we don`t have many Morgan Mills this moment here. Sincerly Stefan --S. GrauSeftigenstr. 203007 Berne/Switzerland---------------------------------- -----------------------------Sicherheits-Hinweis: Diese elektronische Post ist nur fèr den oder die Empf€nger, welchein der Adress-Zeile genannt werden bestimmt!Falls Sie nicht zu diesen gehåren, verståsst jede- unerlaubte Kopie,- unerlaubte Weiterleitung,- unerlaubte Kenntnisnahme, auch vermutlich oeffentlicher Inhalte,- und unerlaubte Verbreitung der enthaltenen Nachricht(en),sowie jeder anderer unautorisierte Gebrauch gegen geltendes Recht. Falls Sie nicht zu den in der Adresszeile genannten Empf€nger(n)gehåren,so bitten wir Sie um Kontaktnahme des Absenders und Zerstårungder betreffenden Daten von Ihrem Computer._________________________________________ Security-Note: The information transmitted is intended only for the personor entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidentialand/or privileged material.Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, ortaking of any action in reliance upon, this information bypersons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.If you received this in error, please contact the sender and deletethe material from any computer. --------------3D85438286E82849A1986AA4 Hi FriendsI have a "Tom Morgan Mill" for sale! Nothing against Tom and hiswonderfilinvention, but as a prof. rodbuilder, the mill is to slow for me an mygrowing business - think i need a electric beveler for all the preplaningwork.But from my opinion, the mill is really faster than a hand plane ifyou do "wet- milling" and the mill cuts two sides of the spline at once!Must truly say, that i never see such an "plane/mill" who makes anso accurate work! No And that`s the thing i shure will regret.....The Mill is excact 1/2 year old, very seldom used and comeswithextra 61 deg. - replacement-cutters. The Mill is the version for hex-rods.I paid ca. CHF 3500.- incl. shipping, my offer is now 2500.- Swiss-Francs,excl. Postage and sending to other countrys than Switzerland.Because the shipping costs, think it`s most interesting for europeanmakers, and we don`t have many Morgan Mills this moment here.SincerlyStefan--S. GrauSeftigenstr. 203007 Berne/Switzerland---------- -----------------------------------------------------Sicherheits-Hinweis:Diese elektronische Post ist nur für den oder die Empfänger,welchein der Adress-Zeile genannt werden bestimmt!Falls Sie nicht zu diesen gehören, verstösst jede- unerlaubte Kopie,- unerlaubte Weiterleitung,- unerlaubte Kenntnisnahme, auch vermutlich oeffentlicher Inhalte,- und unerlaubte Verbreitung der enthaltenen Nachricht(en),sowie jeder anderer unautorisierte Gebrauch gegen geltendes Recht.Falls Sie nicht zu den in der Adresszeile genannten Empfänger(n)gehören,so bitten wir Sie um Kontaktnahme des Absenders undZerstörungder betreffenden Daten von Ihrem Computer._________________________________________Security- Note:The information transmitted is intended only for the person Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, ortaking of any action in reliance upon, this information bypersons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.If you received this in error, please contact the sender and deletethe material from any computer. --------------3D85438286E82849A1986AA4-- from Craig.Naldrett@ibm.net Mon Jun 21 12:27:14 1999 (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA91940 for; Mon, 21 Jun 199917:27:09 GMT Subject: Selecting Strips Responses Tnanks to those who gave some input on the question, as I suspected noreal definitive answer to the subject. I guess I'll just work with whatthe cane gives me. Just split a culm for my first "blond" rod & as it isnot a "prime" culm I have to pick strips with the least blemishesanyway, so any thoughts of an orderly selection process don't reallymatter.CheersCraig from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Jun 21 12:55:09 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0500 Subject: Wayne's new site? Friends,Sorry to trouble the list with this, but I forgot tobookmark Wayne Cattanach's new webpage. I'd like to look it over,and I suspect that he is already Grayrock bound. If one of youwould forward that url to me, I would appreciate it.Thanks,Harry from Krinkalee@cs.com Mon Jun 21 15:35:24 1999 Subject: an L. L. Crown Cane Rod Can someone give me a little history on the manufacturer of this rod itwas either L. L. Crown Co. or L. & L. Crown Co. from djk762@hotmail.com Mon Jun 21 19:39:22 1999 Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:38:48 PDT Subject: F.E. Thomas Tapers Rodmakers, About to begin final planing of a 6'8" 2/2 3wt. F.E.Thomas. I have a copy of Howell's taper and Maurer's taper. They both state that themeasurements were taken from unvarnished rods. The tip sections are identical except at the butt end. The butt sections are very different.It seems that Maurer has moved some bamboo around to avoid using aswell above the grip.I am going to try to build a form (perhaps a partial form) for swelled butts so that I can compare tapers like these two.Has anyone built or cast both of these rods? Did Maurer in fact change the butt taper and retain the rods action? Or are they just two different rods? David KashubaFair Oaks, CA _______________________________________________________________Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com from djk762@hotmail.com Tue Jun 22 00:21:27 1999 Mon, 21 Jun 1999 22:20:55 PDT Subject: Heat curing epon 828? Rodmakers, Does heat curing do anything positive to shell epon 828? Thanks all.David KashubaFair Oaks CA _______________________________________________________________Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com from dickay@alltel.net Tue Jun 22 06:02:25 1999 GAA28783; Subject: Re: casting length *and* set Harry, I don't know how stirred up the pot will get this week with everybodyheadedto Grayrock. As I said in my earlier post to you, "Wish I could go." I have wondered a little bit about this "set" thing. I have considered theeffects of heat treating and that is very possibly the answer. However, Ihave also considered the adhesive that is used to glue the splinestogether. If the glue has much elasticity to it the splines could slip when put in areal hard bend. That might be why the use of heat is necessary to aid instraightening the "set". The heat softens the glue to allow the splines toslip back where they should be. I wonder if some of the older glues (HideGlue) weren't real soft especially when exposed to moisture. I guess theonly answer here would to be build several identical rods and glue them upwith different adhesives and put a certain bend into each one for acontrolled time and see what happens. Just some musings while the list is slow. Dick Fuhrman from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Tue Jun 22 07:57:30 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:57:22 -0500 Subject: Re: F.E. Thomas Tapers David,I built this rod with a combination of the two tapers. I think yourobservation is correct - George seems to have taken some of the swelledbuttout. I don't have his book in front of me, but doesn't it say something like,"Also works great with a swelled butt." I may have that confused withsomethingelse I read. I combined the tapers, going for all the swell I could get outofmy forms.Having not built both tapers, (or really either exact taper) I can't sayhow they are different. Mine is a sweet little 3DT rod. Great out to 40-50feet. Calling this a 2/3 weight is a stretch. It's a real 3 weight. I used atiny cigar grip and double slide ring on cork reel seat.If your looking for suggestions, try combing the tapers near the butttoget all the swell you can. It worked for me. Let me know if I can helpfurther. Harry Boyd from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Tue Jun 22 08:11:27 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Tue, 22 Jun 1999 08:11:20 -0500 Subject: Aluminum tubes Friends,Got a dilemma for some of you adventurers. I found somealuminum rod tubes at a bargain price, and snapped up a dozen.Most of them are too long for my rods. I figured I would justremove the brass screw-on top portions, cut to length, andre-install the cap assembly.You know all about the "best laid plans". I can't get thecollars to budge. I figured the tops were epoxied in place, so Iheated with my heatgun. Then with a torch. Tried gently holdingin a vise. Then a LOT more heat from the torch in a vise.Nothing worked. They must be attached with something that doesn'tbreak down with heat.Other than risking mis-shaping the collars, do any of youhave any suggestions? Harry from eestlow@srminc.com Tue Jun 22 08:24:27 1999 with ESMTP id 1999062208190626:2513 ;Tue, 22 Jun 1999 08:19:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Aluminum tubes 1999) at06/22/9908:29:15 AM,Itemize by SMTP Server on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999)at 06/22/9908:19:06 AM,Serialize by Router on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999) at06/22/9908:19:07 AM,Serialize complete at 06/22/99 08:19:07 AM Harry, In theory you want to heat the brass and cool the aluminum. I can'tremember the coefficient of thermal expansion for brass but stronglysuspect it's much lower than for aluminum. Aluminum's coefficient isreallyhigh. By heating you probably expanded the aluminum farther than thebrassand actually created a tighter fit than before the heat application(forunately temporary - the metals shrink back to original size when theheat is removed). You could try packing the tube with ice, waiting, then torching the brassand trying to loosen quickly before the ice melts all the way and thealuminum heats up. Hope this helps. Best regards,-Ed Estlow Harry Boyd "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu"Sent by: owner- rodmakers@wugate cc:.wustl.edu Subject: Aluminum tubes 06/22/99 08:08 AMPlease respond tofbcwin Friends,Got a dilemma for some of you adventurers. I found somealuminum rod tubes at a bargain price, and snapped up a dozen.Most of them are too long for my rods. I figured I would justremove the brass screw-on top portions, cut to length, andre-install the cap assembly.You know all about the "best laid plans". I can't get thecollars to budge. I figured the tops were epoxied in place, so Iheated with my heatgun. Then with a torch. Tried gently holdingin a vise. Then a LOT more heat from the torch in a vise.Nothing worked. They must be attached with something that doesn'tbreak down with heat.Other than risking mis-shaping the collars, do any of youhave any suggestions? Harry from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Tue Jun 22 08:24:51 1999 GAA23292; (5.5.2448.0) "'dickay@alltel.net'" Subject: RE: casting length *and* set hide glue is far from soft. It's very hard and takes a very long exposure toHOT waterto soften up. It took a lot of hot water and a very thin putty knife toremove the topof a violin and the dried glue took bunches of scrubbing with hot water andtoothbrushes to remove. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-237-1460Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ----------From: Dick & Kathy Fuhrman[SMTP:dickay@alltel.net] Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 1999 3:58 AM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: casting length *and* set Harry, I don't know how stirred up the pot will get this week with everybodyheadedto Grayrock. As I said in my earlier post to you, "Wish I could go." I have wondered a little bit about this "set" thing. I have considered theeffects of heat treating and that is very possibly the answer. However, Ihave also considered the adhesive that is used to glue the splinestogether. If the glue has much elasticity to it the splines could slip when put in areal hard bend. That might be why the use of heat is necessary to aid instraightening the "set". The heat softens the glue to allow the splines toslip back where they should be. I wonder if some of the older glues (HideGlue) weren't real soft especially when exposed to moisture. I guess theonly answer here would to be build several identical rods and glue themupwith different adhesives and put a certain bend into each one for acontrolled time and see what happens. Just some musings while the list is slow. Dick Fuhrman from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Jun 22 08:50:21 1999 Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:48:54 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: Aluminum tubes The Al will expand more than the brass so you wont budge it that way.WhatI think you have is an electrolisis problem, the Al is corroded to thebrass and prob can't be removed without tearing the Al. Maybe cut the tubeat the collar and use a lathe to bore out the Al? Tony On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Harry Boyd wrote: Friends,Got a dilemma for some of you adventurers. I found somealuminum rod tubes at a bargain price, and snapped up a dozen.Most of them are too long for my rods. I figured I would justremove the brass screw-on top portions, cut to length, andre-install the cap assembly.You know all about the "best laid plans". I can't get thecollars to budge. I figured the tops were epoxied in place, so Iheated with my heatgun. Then with a torch. Tried gently holdingin a vise. Then a LOT more heat from the torch in a vise.Nothing worked. They must be attached with something that doesn'tbreak down with heat.Other than risking mis-shaping the collars, do any of youhave any suggestions? Harry /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from michael@wugate.wustl.edu Tue Jun 22 09:00:09 1999 Subject: Re: Aluminum tubes Harry seez... I figured I would justremove the brass screw-on top portions, cut to length, andre-install the cap assembly....You know all about the "best laid plans". I can't get thecollars to budge. Try the other end Harry. Get a wooden dowel a little smaller than theinside diameter, and a bit longer than the tube. Slide the dowel up thetube (sure hope no one takes this message out of context!!! :-) and thebottom should pop out. Wrap some masking tape around the tube where youwant it cut, and use tubing cutter to make the cut. Works great!!! I'm off to Grayrock in the morning...flyrods and homebrew in tow!!! Mike - Toad Brew - BiondoSt. Louis, MO from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Tue Jun 22 09:10:56 1999 (rperry@bookworm.suffolk.lib.ny.us "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Aluminum tubes If you do damage the collar, replacements are available separate. I sellthem all the time! I guess there are many more torch happy folks likeHarry running around . Regards, Bobflysupplies@yahoo.com On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Tony Young wrote: The Al will expand more than the brass so you wont budge it that way.WhatI think you have is an electrolisis problem, the Al is corroded to thebrass and prob can't be removed without tearing the Al. Maybe cut thetubeat the collar and use a lathe to bore out the Al? Tony On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Harry Boyd wrote: snipped from anglport@con2.com Tue Jun 22 09:18:27 1999 Subject: Re: Aluminum tubes Harry,Not to be insulting, but did you try the bottoms too? I had one typewhereif you threw a piece of boomstick down the tube it would pop the(force-fit) bottom right out. You could tubing-cut the tube and push- fitthe bottom right back in.Another solution, though it probably wouldn't do if you're sellingthem(although they WILL be distinctive!); cut off the bottom and turn a nicehardwood stopper (maple, walnut?) to fit there. You could even leave arim/collar that would show around the tubing.Art from angelruten@smile.ch Tue Jun 22 09:19:00 1999 Tue, 22 Jun 1999 16:15:30 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: Re: Homebrew tubes ......any tubes made for hembrewing???? the thursty swiss rodmaker Stefan Mike Biondo schrieb: Harry seez... I figured I would justremove the brass screw-on top portions, cut to length, andre-install the cap assembly....You know all about the "best laid plans". I can't get thecollars to budge. Try the other end Harry. Get a wooden dowel a little smaller than theinside diameter, and a bit longer than the tube. Slide the dowel up thetube (sure hope no one takes this message out of context!!! :-) and thebottom should pop out. Wrap some masking tape around the tube whereyouwant it cut, and use tubing cutter to make the cut. Works great!!! I'm off to Grayrock in the morning...flyrods and homebrew in tow!!! Mike - Toad Brew - BiondoSt. Louis, MO ---------------------------------------------------------------Sicherheits-Hinweis: Diese elektronische Post ist nur fèr den oder die Empf€nger, welchein der Adress-Zeile genannt werden bestimmt!Falls Sie nicht zu diesen gehåren, verståsst jede- unerlaubte Kopie,- unerlaubte Weiterleitung,- unerlaubte Kenntnisnahme, auch vermutlich oeffentlicher Inhalte,- und unerlaubte Verbreitung der enthaltenen Nachricht(en),sowie jeder anderer unautorisierte Gebrauch gegen geltendes Recht. Falls Sie nicht zu den in der Adresszeile genannten Empf€nger(n) gehåren,so bitten wir Sie um Kontaktnahme des Absenders und Zerstårungder betreffenden Daten von Ihrem Computer._________________________________________ Security-Note: The information transmitted is intended only for the personor entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidentialand/or privileged material.Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, ortaking of any action in reliance upon, this information bypersons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.If you received this in error, please contact the sender and deletethe material from any computer. from dmanders@telusplanet.net Tue Jun 22 09:21:32 1999 don") bysmtp2.telusplanet.net with SMTP id ; Tue, 22 Jun 199908:21:25 - 0600 Subject: Re: casting length *and* set Dick, I've got a rod that took a set after several thousand hours of fishing.Needed a revarnish - spun the tip sections 180 degrees and reinstalled theguides on what was the bottom. The set never returned. The spline wasfoundlike I usually do by checking deflection when the guides were firstmounted. I probably fish the same way and everything else remained the sameexcept Thought I might muddy the waters so more, Don At 05:58 AM 6/22/99 -0500, Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote:Harry, I don't know how stirred up the pot will get this week with everybodyheadedto Grayrock. As I said in my earlier post to you, "Wish I could go." I have wondered a little bit about this "set" thing. I have considered theeffects of heat treating and that is very possibly the answer. However, Ihave also considered the adhesive that is used to glue the splinestogether. If the glue has much elasticity to it the splines could slip when put in areal hard bend. That might be why the use of heat is necessary to aid instraightening the "set". The heat softens the glue to allow the splines toslip back where they should be. I wonder if some of the older glues (HideGlue) weren't real soft especially when exposed to moisture. I guess theonly answer here would to be build several identical rods and glue themupwith different adhesives and put a certain bend into each one for acontrolled time and see what happens. Just some musings while the list is slow. Dick Fuhrman from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Jun 22 09:23:24 1999 Subject: Re: Aluminum tubes Harry,Cut the fitting off the tube just below the collar. Leave enough sothat you can grip it. With a hacksaw blade cut across the piece oftube that is in the collar in one or two places. This will give it arelief split. You should then be able to squeeze the piece tube and itshould come right out. Cut the tube to length, put the brass fittingin an oven to heat it so it expands and install. You can fill the tubewith cold water if it is really a tight fit.I have done several this way.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Harry Boyd wrote: Friends,Got a dilemma for some of you adventurers. I found somealuminum rod tubes at a bargain price, and snapped up a dozen.Most of them are too long for my rods. I figured I would justremove the brass screw-on top portions, cut to length, andre-install the cap assembly.You know all about the "best laid plans". I can't get thecollars to budge. I figured the tops were epoxied in place, so Iheated with my heatgun. Then with a torch. Tried gently holdingin a vise. Then a LOT more heat from the torch in a vise.Nothing worked. They must be attached with something that doesn'tbreak down with heat.Other than risking mis-shaping the collars, do any of youhave any suggestions? Harry from hexagon@odyssee.net Tue Jun 22 15:26:54 1999 Subject: Re: Morgan Mill for sale! boundary="------------2EA2FC3CD2101B0ABDA40EA2" --------------2EA2FC3CD2101B0ABDA40EA2 Stefan,If you go to the rodmakers website and type in "morgan hand mill' inStetzer's archive search engine you will see a posting "morgan hand millspeed".The author claims to be able to split, straighten and hand mill tofinished size 18 strips for a 2 piece 2 tip rod in 3 1/2 hours.I would suggest that perhaps you have not given the mill a chancebecause I do not think a beveller could match 3.5 hours taking intoaccount straightning and node flattening.Terry Stefan Grau wrote: Hi Friends I have a "Tom Morgan Mill" for sale! Nothing against Tom and hiswonderfil invention, but as a prof. rodbuilder, the mill is to slow all the preplaning work.But from my opinion, the mill is really faster than a hand plane ifyou do "wet- milling" and the mill cuts two sides of the spline atonce!Must truly say, that i never see such an "plane/mill" who makes an soaccurate work! No And that`s the thing i shure will regret..... The Mill is excact 1/2 year old, very seldom used and comes with extra61 deg. - replacement-cutters. The Mill is the version for hex-rods.I paid ca. CHF 3500.- incl. shipping, my offer is now 2500.-Swiss-Francs, excl. Postage and sending to other countrys thanSwitzerland. Because the shipping costs, think it`s most interesting for europeanmakers, and we don`t have many Morgan Mills this moment here. Sincerly Stefan --S. GrauSeftigenstr. 203007 Berne/Switzerland---------------------------------- -----------------------------Sicherheits-Hinweis: Diese elektronische Post ist nur fèr den oder die Empf€nger, welchein der Adress-Zeile genannt werden bestimmt!Falls Sie nicht zu diesen gehåren, verståsst jede- unerlaubte Kopie,- unerlaubte Weiterleitung,- unerlaubte Kenntnisnahme, auch vermutlich oeffentlicher Inhalte,- und unerlaubte Verbreitung der enthaltenen Nachricht(en),sowie jeder anderer unautorisierte Gebrauch gegen geltendes Recht. Falls Sie nicht zu den in der Adresszeile genannten Empf€nger(n)gehåren,so bitten wir Sie um Kontaktnahme des Absenders und Zerstårungder betreffenden Daten von Ihrem Computer._________________________________________ Security-Note: The information transmitted is intended only for the personor entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidentialand/or privileged material.Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, ortaking of any action in reliance upon, this information bypersons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.If you received this in error, please contact the sender and deletethe material from any computer. --------------2EA2FC3CD2101B0ABDA40EA2 Stefan,If you go to the rodmakers website and type in "morgan hand mill' inStetzer's archive search engine you will see a posting "morgan hand millspeed". to finished size 18 strips for a 2 piece 2 tip rod in 3 1/2 hours.I would suggest that perhaps you have not given the mill a chancebecauseI do not think a beveller could match 3.5 hours taking into accountstraightningand node flattening.Terry Stefan Grau wrote:Hi FriendsI have a "Tom Morgan Mill" for sale! Nothing against Tom and hiswonderfilinvention, but as a prof. rodbuilder, the mill is to slow for me an mygrowing business - think i need a electric beveler for all the preplaningwork.But from my opinion, the mill is really faster than a hand plane ifyou do "wet- milling" and the mill cuts two sides of the spline at once!Must truly say, that i never see such an "plane/mill" who makes anso accurate work! No And that`s the thing i shure will regret.....The Mill is excact 1/2 year old, very seldom used and comeswithextra 61 deg. - replacement-cutters. The Mill is the version for hex-rods.I paid ca. CHF 3500.- incl. shipping, my offer is now 2500.- Swiss-Francs,excl. Postage and sending to other countrys than Switzerland.Because the shipping costs, think it`s most interesting for europeanmakers, and we don`t have many Morgan Mills this moment here.SincerlyStefan--S. GrauSeftigenstr. 203007 Berne/Switzerland---------- -----------------------------------------------------Sicherheits-Hinweis:Diese elektronische Post ist nur für den oder die Empfänger,welchein der Adress-Zeile genannt werden bestimmt!Falls Sie nicht zu diesen gehören, verstösst jede- unerlaubte Kopie,- unerlaubte Weiterleitung,- unerlaubte Kenntnisnahme, auch vermutlich oeffentlicher Inhalte,- und unerlaubte Verbreitung der enthaltenen Nachricht(en),sowie jeder anderer unautorisierte Gebrauch gegen geltendes Recht.Falls Sie nicht zu den in der Adresszeile genannten Empfänger(n)gehören,so bitten wir Sie um Kontaktnahme des Absenders undZerstörungder betreffenden Daten von Ihrem Computer._________________________________________Security- Note:The information transmitted is intended only for the person Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, ortaking of any action in reliance upon, this information bypersons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.If you received this in error, please contact the sender and deletethe material from any computer. --------------2EA2FC3CD2101B0ABDA40EA2-- from hexagon@odyssee.net Tue Jun 22 15:44:13 1999 Subject: Re: casting length *and* set Harry,if you ever go to any or the rodmakers gatherings, check out thestraightness of the rods being produced today and then you may think asI do that perhaps the whole story is not contained in the booksavailable.We have to be thankful that 14 footers are not in fashion!Terry Harry Boyd wrote: Sue,This ought to stir the pot a little. But that's great.Things are too quiet on the list lately. My opinion, and it'sjust from personal experience, no scientific data, is that no wellmade rod should regularly "take a set". heat treated as per Wayne's regimen, has caught quite a few bigfish. I have pictures of a 22" brown, a 26" brown, and a 19"football shaped rainbow all caught the same day. (Yes, WhiteRiver Arkansas fishing can be great!) The rainbow fought harderthan the two browns combined. Using 6x tippet, the 'bow tookabout 150' of backing, twice. The rod is still straight as anarrow.Back in my younger days when I fished for spawning browns(don't do that no more!) I used a Leonard 50DF one day and caught16 fish, all from 18-23 inches. That rod never took a set. Andno, I don't often turn the rod over, reel up, when fighting fish.But I do fight fish with the butt of the rod rather than the tip.I keep the butt at about a 45* angle. When you fight a fish likethat, most of the bend in the rod is in the middle. The tip staysalmost straight. Maybe that makes a difference.If "setting" is inherent in some cane rods, then thoserods were probably not heat-treated correctly while being made. Okay, gang, let's hear your thoughts on this..... Harry The second part of the question then, playing a fish from thatdistance .... wouldn't that tend to put a set in the rod? is 'setting' inherent in some cane ? and what might makethat the case ? the build up of the cane, the taper, theprior owner's care ? if the set were fixed a month ago,you wouldn't think it would be prior owner. from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Jun 22 16:03:33 1999 14:14:09 PDT Subject: Straight? With the recent talk about fishing sets and straight rods, I am curious what some of the rest of you define as straight? NASA could take one of our flyrods to space and check for true straightness. There are no trout streams on the Moon, but as Geirach would say, "Maybe that's the whole point". Chris McDowell from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Tue Jun 22 17:07:31 1999