(Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:07:24 -0500 Subject: Re: casting length *and* set Terry,You make a fine point. There are, as Chris pointed out, few"straight" rods. I know that attempting to straighten glued sections hascause me much grief. I'm finishing up a Leonard 50DF tapered rod thatwillhave one tip with a gentle 1/2" curve all along its length. I've triedeverything I can think of, from the heat gun to the steam iron, and thecurve is still there. Guess I'll have to keep this one for myself, huh?I have noticed that today's best makers (perhaps not the mostwell-known) produce sections that are closer to straight than average. Mybest success comes by paying a great deal of attention to straighteningthefreshly glued sections. Once they are glued, I have heated and bent morethan one section to the point of delaminating without ever getting itreallystraight. Those go to the scrap pile. One thing I don't hear much aboutthese days, and that tempts me, is hanging the sections with weight ontheends......As you imply, there may be methods of straightening from days gone experienced, best builders know something the rest of us do not. I'll keepsearching out new ways, or old ways, or getting my rods closer tostraight.Any suggestions are welcome!HarryTERENCE ACKLAND wrote: Harry,if you ever go to any or the rodmakers gatherings, check out thestraightness of the rods being produced today and then you may think asI do that perhaps the whole story is not contained in the booksavailable.We have to be thankful that 14 footers are not in fashion!Terry Harry Boyd wrote: Sue,This ought to stir the pot a little. But that's great.Things are too quiet on the list lately. My opinion, and it'sjust from personal experience, no scientific data, is that no wellmade rod should regularly "take a set". heat treated as per Wayne's regimen, has caught quite a few bigfish. I have pictures of a 22" brown, a 26" brown, and a 19"football shaped rainbow all caught the same day. (Yes, WhiteRiver Arkansas fishing can be great!) The rainbow fought harderthan the two browns combined. Using 6x tippet, the 'bow tookabout 150' of backing, twice. The rod is still straight as anarrow.Back in my younger days when I fished for spawning browns(don't do that no more!) I used a Leonard 50DF one day and caught16 fish, all from 18-23 inches. That rod never took a set. Andno, I don't often turn the rod over, reel up, when fighting fish.But I do fight fish with the butt of the rod rather than the tip.I keep the butt at about a 45* angle. When you fight a fish likethat, most of the bend in the rod is in the middle. The tip staysalmost straight. Maybe that makes a difference.If "setting" is inherent in some cane rods, then thoserods were probably not heat-treated correctly while being made. Okay, gang, let's hear your thoughts on this..... Harry The second part of the question then, playing a fish from thatdistance .... wouldn't that tend to put a set in the rod? is 'setting' inherent in some cane ? and what might makethat the case ? the build up of the cane, the taper, theprior owner's care ? if the set were fixed a month ago,you wouldn't think it would be prior owner. from jfreeman@cyberport.com Tue Jun 22 17:56:54 1999 Subject: Re: casting length *and* set Harry, I've just done two tips by hanging weight, and they both still came outwith the same 1/2" curves that you've mentioned. They darn sure lookedstraight while hanging. I've got two more tips that I'm going to try bysetting down into my form. Let you know how that comes out. Jim ----------From: Harry Boyd Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: casting length *and* setDate: Tuesday, June 22, 1999 4:04 PM Terry,You make a fine point. There are, as Chris pointed out, few"straight" rods. I know that attempting to straighten glued sections hascause me much grief. I'm finishing up a Leonard 50DF tapered rod thatwillhave one tip with a gentle 1/2" curve all along its length. I've triedeverything I can think of, from the heat gun to the steam iron, and thecurve is still there. Guess I'll have to keep this one for myself, huh?I have noticed that today's best makers (perhaps not the mostwell-known) produce sections that are closer to straight than average. Mybest success comes by paying a great deal of attention to straighteningthefreshly glued sections. Once they are glued, I have heated and bent morethan one section to the point of delaminating without ever getting itreallystraight. Those go to the scrap pile. One thing I don't hear much aboutthese days, and that tempts me, is hanging the sections with weight ontheends......As you imply, there may be methods of straightening from daysgone experienced, best builders know something the rest of us do not. I'llkeepsearching out new ways, or old ways, or getting my rods closer tostraight.Any suggestions are welcome!HarryTERENCE ACKLAND wrote: Harry,if you ever go to any or the rodmakers gatherings, check out thestraightness of the rods being produced today and then you may thinkasI do that perhaps the whole story is not contained in the booksavailable.We have to be thankful that 14 footers are not in fashion!Terry Harry Boyd wrote: Sue,This ought to stir the pot a little. But that's great.Things are too quiet on the list lately. My opinion, and it'sjust from personal experience, no scientific data, is that no wellmade rod should regularly "take a set". heat treated as per Wayne's regimen, has caught quite a few bigfish. I have pictures of a 22" brown, a 26" brown, and a 19"football shaped rainbow all caught the same day. (Yes, WhiteRiver Arkansas fishing can be great!) The rainbow fought harderthan the two browns combined. Using 6x tippet, the 'bow tookabout 150' of backing, twice. The rod is still straight as anarrow.Back in my younger days when I fished for spawning browns(don't do that no more!) I used a Leonard 50DF one day and caught16 fish, all from 18-23 inches. That rod never took a set. Andno, I don't often turn the rod over, reel up, when fighting fish.But I do fight fish with the butt of the rod rather than the tip.I keep the butt at about a 45* angle. When you fight a fish likethat, most of the bend in the rod is in the middle. The tip staysalmost straight. Maybe that makes a difference.If "setting" is inherent in some cane rods, then thoserods were probably not heat-treated correctly while being made. Okay, gang, let's hear your thoughts on this..... Harry The second part of the question then, playing a fish from thatdistance .... wouldn't that tend to put a set in the rod? is 'setting' inherent in some cane ? and what might makethat the case ? the build up of the cane, the taper, theprior owner's care ? if the set were fixed a month ago,you wouldn't think it would be prior owner. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Jun 22 20:27:15 1999 Subject: Re: Aluminum tubes Harry,I cut the bottoms off to length and slam the cut off bottom on a large dowel to loosen the bottom plug and reattach it to the cut tube.Sometimes a little heat may be necessary but I find that that doesn't happen very often. Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Jun 22 20:28:21 1999 Subject: summer unsubscribe To all,We're headed for Montana via Greyrock Thurs. and we'll unsubscribe 'til September. Anyone gets near Silver Gate we're the last house east of townon the south side with a red metal roof.Y'all come, ye heah?Looking forward to seeing old friends and making new ones at Greyrock.Regards,' Hank. from freaner@gte.net Tue Jun 22 20:36:33 1999 Subject: Re: Straight? At 2:02 PM -0700 on 6/22/99, CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: With the recent talk about fishing sets and straight rods, I am curiouswhat some of the rest of you define as straight? NASA could take one ofour flyrods to space and check for true straightness. There are no troutstreams on the Moon, but as Geirach would say, "Maybe that's the wholepoint". Interesting thought, Chris. One of the biggest problems that NASA engineers have in testing spacecraft prior to launch is trying to test the complex extension mechanisms that support and extend the large solar cell arrays in a gravity environment, when they're only expected to operate in micro- gravity. Claudefreaner@gte.netcfreaner@hq.nasa.gov from jaquin@netsync.net Tue Jun 22 21:54:00 1999 Subject: Charles Ritz hi y'all, I picked up the biography? auto-biography on charles ritz,"the life of a fly fisherman". He has some interesting theories oncasting and rod design. bascially saying that long flex in a rod, whatis commonly called a slow action, equates to long lift, the ability topick longer lengths of line of the water for fewer false casts. also heequates high line speed to higher line height, less sag on the backcast. in the book he shows some rod curvitures, showing a fast tip rod,a parabolic rod and his ideal rod, which has greater flex into the buttthan a parabolic, and also has a heavy tip, ie. a flat curve at the endof the tip, which helps in lifting line off the water. he is credited with designing the super parabolics PPP of P&M. he also had Garcia Corp make-up his ideal rod design in fiberglass inthe early 1970's the rod was called a Ritz-Gracia. has anybody designed a rod based on Charles Ritz's theories? I heardseveral people say the P&M super parabolics are good casting rods. has anbody, seen or cast a Ritz-Gracia. tia jerry from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Jun 22 22:49:30 1999 Wed, 23 Jun 1999 11:48:04 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: Charles Ritz What you say re. parabolics lifting long lengths of line is absolutelyright and is why they make such good nymphing rods even if particuallylong casts aren't required as once the current causes the line to driftpast you and the line straightens a gentle pickup and forward cast is allthat's required for the cast. Tony On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Jerry Quinn wrote: hi y'all, I picked up the biography? auto-biography on charles ritz,"the life of a fly fisherman". He has some interesting theories oncasting and rod design. bascially saying that long flex in a rod, whatis commonly called a slow action, equates to long lift, the ability topick longer lengths of line of the water for fewer false casts. also heequates high line speed to higher line height, less sag on the backcast. in the book he shows some rod curvitures, showing a fast tip rod,a parabolic rod and his ideal rod, which has greater flex into the buttthan a parabolic, and also has a heavy tip, ie. a flat curve at the endof the tip, which helps in lifting line off the water. he is credited with designing the super parabolics PPP of P&M. he also had Garcia Corp make-up his ideal rod design in fiberglass inthe early 1970's the rod was called a Ritz-Gracia. has anybody designed a rod based on Charles Ritz's theories? I heardseveral people say the P&M super parabolics are good casting rods. has anbody, seen or cast a Ritz-Gracia. tia jerry /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from angelruten@smile.ch Wed Jun 23 00:59:32 1999 Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:04:25 +0200 Subject: Re: Charles Ritz Jerry Excact last week i made an Pezon (Ritz) blank for an customer who wishedanexcact copy of his own, antique Pezon rod. Seems that`my blank works likethe "old one". I have and fish also several Pezon&Michel Rods of my own, some as newandsome to restore. Here in Europe the Rods from Pezon was not few,Pezon had a very good reputation by european flyfishers and - for meimportant - Mr. Ritz was a swiss Flyfisherman.I have also several "Schreck"-Rods, Rods from Switzerland wellknowestRodmaker in the 50`and 60`ties, and these are very nearon the Pezon Rods. The thing with the "slow actions" it`s absolutely true, most of the youngerPezon Rods are slow and - from my opinion - heavy, and think the tip ofthese rods are mabye to heavy. But think the fishermens in this decadelikedit... The action and also lenght of the Pezon Rods changed with the contact ofMr.Ritz with the Austrian Gebetsroither, a wellknown and freaky Rodbuilder(notMaker), wo sweared on shorter and very fast rods betwen 1.7 up to 2meters.Gebetsroither guidet many fishermens from the whole world, preferablyfromEngland and France and rebuildet often her rods by shorten extremly theblanks, or made "new" rods by using severalpieces from broken rods - one butt from this rod, the tip from another,but - how you can read in the (only german available)Biography aboutGebetsroither, very succesfull.Seems that Ritz not was a very good caster, his technician at Pezon, Mr.Cresavaut was much more experienced. Gebetsroither schooleda new casting style to Ritz, and Ritz transferred this later to his rods,but in the lenght of his later rods he made not many changes, not soextremelike Gebetsroither. I`m not shure, but think Ritz created later also Tapers for Sharpe`s inEngland, and Sharpe`s had some shorter Rods than Pezon. Cordially StefanSwitzerland -----Ursprèngliche Nachricht-----Von: Jerry Quinn An: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Datum: Mittwoch, 23. Juni 1999 04:52Betreff: Charles Ritz hi y'all, I picked up the biography? auto-biography on charles ritz,"the life of a fly fisherman". He has some interesting theories oncasting and rod design. bascially saying that long flex in a rod, whatis commonly called a slow action, equates to long lift, the ability topick longer lengths of line of the water for fewer false casts. also heequates high line speed to higher line height, less sag on the backcast. in the book he shows some rod curvitures, showing a fast tip rod,a parabolic rod and his ideal rod, which has greater flex into the buttthan a parabolic, and also has a heavy tip, ie. a flat curve at the endof the tip, which helps in lifting line off the water. he is credited with designing the super parabolics PPP of P&M. he also had Garcia Corp make-up his ideal rod design in fiberglass inthe early 1970's the rod was called a Ritz-Gracia. has anybody designed a rod based on Charles Ritz's theories? I heardseveral people say the P&M super parabolics are good casting rods. has anbody, seen or cast a Ritz-Gracia. tia jerry from cmj@post11.tele.dk Wed Jun 23 04:05:14 1999 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0200 Subject: Sv: casting length *and* set -----Original Message----- Harry, I've just done two tips by hanging weight, and they both still came outwith the same 1/2" curves that you've mentioned. They darn sure lookedstraight while hanging I'll let You in on a secret: Use TWO pieces of string for hanging the weighton therod, the knots being on opposite sides of the tip. Using just one piece ofstringmakes a nice curve in the tip......... regards, Carsten Dania Flyrods from cmj@post11.tele.dk Wed Jun 23 05:48:22 1999 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0200 Subject: Straigthening by weights boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BEBD77.080425C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BEBD77.080425C0 List-members I=B4ve had a few requests as to how I use weigths Please wiev the enclosed drawing and noticethe same priciple is applied at both ends ofthe rod section. Hope this will be of use to someof You. regards, Carsten Dania Flyrods ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BEBD77.080425C0 name="knudescan.jpg" filename="knudescan.jpg" 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------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BEBD77.080425C0-- from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Jun 23 06:31:02 1999 0500 Subject: Final scraping This may not be new but I thought I would post it. I got down to final scraping of the strips. Theykept slipping in the form even using an eraser. Imentioned to the wife that I would have to findsome way to hold the strips. She gave me a rubberlike disk that is used to pull needles throughmaterial when making quilts. It is less than 1/16"thick and 1 1/2" in diameter. This worked like acharm. Very little pressure was needed to keep thestrip from slipping. I found it especially good making tools and collecting what was needed Ifinally have a butt and tip section to glue up.Now to get some glue. THe only thing they havearound here is Elmers Carpenter glue.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from anglport@con2.com Wed Jun 23 08:50:52 1999 Subject: Re: Aluminum tubes Anybody know how long the Leonard 38 is?Thanks,Art\ Tt 09:25 PM 6/22/99 EDT, FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote:Harry,I cut the bottoms off to length and slam the cut off bottom on a large dowel to loosen the bottom plug and reattach it to the cut tube.Sometimes a little heat may be necessary but I find that that doesn't happen veryoften. Regards,Hank. from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Jun 23 09:11:55 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0500 Subject: Re: Aluminum tubes Friends,Thanks to everyone who responded. I thought I replied to thisyesterday afternoon, but my response never showed up on my computer. Itried knocking the bottom out of the tube with an old broken handle from ashovel, and it worked like a charm.It constantly surprises me how often the simplest solution is thebest. Guess I'm a slow learner.Keep the good, simple ideas flowing, Harry from jackdale@uswest.net Wed Jun 23 10:08:58 1999 (206.196.156.235) Subject: Re: Aluminum tubes My 38H is a seven foot 4 wt. Art Port wrote: Anybody know how long the Leonard 38 is?Thanks,Art\ Tt 09:25 PM 6/22/99 EDT, FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote:Harry,I cut the bottoms off to length and slam the cut off bottom on alargedowel to loosen the bottom plug and reattach it to the cut tube.Sometimes alittle heat may be necessary but I find that that doesn't happen veryoften.Regards,Hank. from bciesiel@goisd.k12.mi.us Wed Jun 23 14:11:22 1999 withESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:10:58 - 0500 Subject: heddon rod restoration I am restoring a heddon #10 rod and need to find a source forred/black jasper silk thread. Can anyone help with this or is this no longerin production? Thankyou. Brian from hexagon@odyssee.net Wed Jun 23 14:55:07 1999 Subject: Re: casting length *and* set Jim,one of the first things to learn about rodmaking and the list is that someofwhat you read contains a certain amount of poetic license.Do not feel that you are a failure because you cannot make a straight rodandcast a whole DT line. Just take the time to attend a rodmakers gatheringandyou may find that you are well endowed after all.Terry Jim Freeman wrote: Harry, I've just done two tips by hanging weight, and they both still came outwith the same 1/2" curves that you've mentioned. They darn sure lookedstraight while hanging. I've got two more tips that I'm going to try bysetting down into my form. Let you know how that comes out. Jim----------From: Harry Boyd Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: casting length *and* setDate: Tuesday, June 22, 1999 4:04 PM Terry,You make a fine point. There are, as Chris pointed out, few"straight" rods. I know that attempting to straighten glued sectionshascause me much grief. I'm finishing up a Leonard 50DF tapered rod thatwillhave one tip with a gentle 1/2" curve all along its length. I've triedeverything I can think of, from the heat gun to the steam iron, and thecurve is still there. Guess I'll have to keep this one for myself, huh?I have noticed that today's best makers (perhaps not the mostwell-known) produce sections that are closer to straight than average.Mybest success comes by paying a great deal of attention to straighteningthefreshly glued sections. Once they are glued, I have heated and bentmorethan one section to the point of delaminating without ever getting itreallystraight. Those go to the scrap pile. One thing I don't hear much aboutthese days, and that tempts me, is hanging the sections with weight ontheends......As you imply, there may be methods of straightening from daysgone experienced, best builders know something the rest of us do not. I'llkeepsearching out new ways, or old ways, or getting my rods closer tostraight.Any suggestions are welcome!HarryTERENCE ACKLAND wrote: Harry,if you ever go to any or the rodmakers gatherings, check out thestraightness of the rods being produced today and then you may thinkasI do that perhaps the whole story is not contained in the booksavailable.We have to be thankful that 14 footers are not in fashion!Terry Harry Boyd wrote: Sue,This ought to stir the pot a little. But that's great.Things are too quiet on the list lately. My opinion, and it'sjust from personal experience, no scientific data, is that no wellmade rod should regularly "take a set". heat treated as per Wayne's regimen, has caught quite a few bigfish. I have pictures of a 22" brown, a 26" brown, and a 19"football shaped rainbow all caught the same day. (Yes, WhiteRiver Arkansas fishing can be great!) The rainbow fought harderthan the two browns combined. Using 6x tippet, the 'bow tookabout 150' of backing, twice. The rod is still straight as anarrow.Back in my younger days when I fished for spawning browns(don't do that no more!) I used a Leonard 50DF one day and caught16 fish, all from 18-23 inches. That rod never took a set. Andno, I don't often turn the rod over, reel up, when fighting fish.But I do fight fish with the butt of the rod rather than the tip.I keep the butt at about a 45* angle. When you fight a fish likethat, most of the bend in the rod is in the middle. The tip staysalmost straight. Maybe that makes a difference.If "setting" is inherent in some cane rods, then thoserods were probably not heat-treated correctly while being made. Okay, gang, let's hear your thoughts on this..... Harry The second part of the question then, playing a fish from thatdistance .... wouldn't that tend to put a set in the rod? is 'setting' inherent in some cane ? and what might makethat the case ? the build up of the cane, the taper, theprior owner's care ? if the set were fixed a month ago,you wouldn't think it would be prior owner. from hexagon@odyssee.net Wed Jun 23 15:41:15 1999 Subject: Re: casting length *and* set Harry,bamboo has a memory and it is very difficult to build a rod that will staystraight, no matter what some of our "experts" say.Too much moisture in the rod is a big problem because you only chase itout ofthe area you are straightening with heat. When you remove the gun themoisturereturns back down the stick and the kink returns. The Garrison time/temprecommendation is a good example of this! Once a rod is made straight itwillonly stay straight if the internal moisture content is stable.There is an excellent publication by the Forest Products Lab called theEncyclopedia of Wood and it goes into great detail on moisture content,adhesives and finishes that also apply to bamboo.A good understanding of the above is an essential part of rodmaking and itisnot available, unfortunately, from any of the rodmaking books and videosand ourresident on line "Space Cadets".Terry Harry Boyd wrote: Terry,You make a fine point. There are, as Chris pointed out, few"straight" rods. I know that attempting to straighten glued sections hascause me much grief. I'm finishing up a Leonard 50DF tapered rod thatwillhave one tip with a gentle 1/2" curve all along its length. I've triedeverything I can think of, from the heat gun to the steam iron, and thecurve is still there. Guess I'll have to keep this one for myself, huh?I have noticed that today's best makers (perhaps not the mostwell-known) produce sections that are closer to straight than average. Mybest success comes by paying a great deal of attention to straighteningthefreshly glued sections. Once they are glued, I have heated and bent morethan one section to the point of delaminating without ever getting itreallystraight. Those go to the scrap pile. One thing I don't hear much aboutthese days, and that tempts me, is hanging the sections with weight ontheends......As you imply, there may be methods of straightening from daysgone experienced, best builders know something the rest of us do not. I'll keepsearching out new ways, or old ways, or getting my rods closer tostraight.Any suggestions are welcome!HarryTERENCE ACKLAND wrote: Harry,if you ever go to any or the rodmakers gatherings, check out thestraightness of the rods being produced today and then you may thinkasI do that perhaps the whole story is not contained in the booksavailable.We have to be thankful that 14 footers are not in fashion!Terry Harry Boyd wrote: Sue,This ought to stir the pot a little. But that's great.Things are too quiet on the list lately. My opinion, and it'sjust from personal experience, no scientific data, is that no wellmade rod should regularly "take a set". heat treated as per Wayne's regimen, has caught quite a few bigfish. I have pictures of a 22" brown, a 26" brown, and a 19"football shaped rainbow all caught the same day. (Yes, WhiteRiver Arkansas fishing can be great!) The rainbow fought harderthan the two browns combined. Using 6x tippet, the 'bow tookabout 150' of backing, twice. The rod is still straight as anarrow.Back in my younger days when I fished for spawning browns(don't do that no more!) I used a Leonard 50DF one day and caught16 fish, all from 18-23 inches. That rod never took a set. Andno, I don't often turn the rod over, reel up, when fighting fish.But I do fight fish with the butt of the rod rather than the tip.I keep the butt at about a 45* angle. When you fight a fish likethat, most of the bend in the rod is in the middle. The tip staysalmost straight. Maybe that makes a difference.If "setting" is inherent in some cane rods, then thoserods were probably not heat-treated correctly while being made. Okay, gang, let's hear your thoughts on this..... Harry The second part of the question then, playing a fish from thatdistance .... wouldn't that tend to put a set in the rod? is 'setting' inherent in some cane ? and what might makethat the case ? the build up of the cane, the taper, theprior owner's care ? if the set were fixed a month ago,you wouldn't think it would be prior owner. from mevans@acxiom.com Wed Jun 23 15:54:38 1999 (router,SLMail V3.2); Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:48:25 -0500 (204.107.111.23::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V3.2); Wed, 23 Jun1999 15:48:24-0500 popmail.conway.acxiom.com ; Wed Jun23 15:48:23 1999 -0500 (5.5.2448.0) Subject: RE: casting length *and* set A friend recently gave directions for using final forms to straighten rods. The form isadjusted for the blank based on the original planing dimensions, then theblank is laidon the form with a steel plate on it. I have not tried it (working on myfirst blank)but my friend said his rods turn out "very straight". Any thoughts on thisapproach? I have the details at home. I'll be happy to scan and post it if there is anyinterest. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: casting length *and* set Jim,one of the first things to learn about rodmaking and the list is that someofwhat you read contains a certain amount of poetic license.Do not feel that you are a failure because you cannot make a straight rodandcast a whole DT line. Just take the time to attend a rodmakers gatheringandyou may find that you are well endowed after all.Terry Jim Freeman wrote: Harry, I've just done two tips by hanging weight, and they both still came outwith the same 1/2" curves that you've mentioned. They darn sure lookedstraight while hanging. I've got two more tips that I'm going to try bysetting down into my form. Let you know how that comes out. Jim----------From: Harry Boyd Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: casting length *and* setDate: Tuesday, June 22, 1999 4:04 PM Terry,You make a fine point. There are, as Chris pointed out, few"straight" rods. I know that attempting to straighten glued sectionshascause me much grief. I'm finishing up a Leonard 50DF tapered rod thatwillhave one tip with a gentle 1/2" curve all along its length. I've triedeverything I can think of, from the heat gun to the steam iron, and thecurve is still there. Guess I'll have to keep this one for myself, huh?I have noticed that today's best makers (perhaps not the mostwell-known) produce sections that are closer to straight than average.Mybest success comes by paying a great deal of attention to straighteningthefreshly glued sections. Once they are glued, I have heated and bentmorethan one section to the point of delaminating without ever getting itreallystraight. Those go to the scrap pile. One thing I don't hear much aboutthese days, and that tempts me, is hanging the sections with weight ontheends......As you imply, there may be methods of straightening from daysgone experienced, best builders know something the rest of us do not. I'llkeepsearching out new ways, or old ways, or getting my rods closer tostraight.Any suggestions are welcome!HarryTERENCE ACKLAND wrote: Harry,if you ever go to any or the rodmakers gatherings, check out thestraightness of the rods being produced today and then you may thinkasI do that perhaps the whole story is not contained in the booksavailable.We have to be thankful that 14 footers are not in fashion!Terry Harry Boyd wrote: Sue,This ought to stir the pot a little. But that's great.Things are too quiet on the list lately. My opinion, and it'sjust from personal experience, no scientific data, is that no wellmade rod should regularly "take a set". heat treated as per Wayne's regimen, has caught quite a few bigfish. I have pictures of a 22" brown, a 26" brown, and a 19"football shaped rainbow all caught the same day. (Yes, WhiteRiver Arkansas fishing can be great!) The rainbow fought harderthan the two browns combined. Using 6x tippet, the 'bow tookabout 150' of backing, twice. The rod is still straight as anarrow.Back in my younger days when I fished for spawning browns(don't do that no more!) I used a Leonard 50DF one day and caught16 fish, all from 18-23 inches. That rod never took a set. Andno, I don't often turn the rod over, reel up, when fighting fish.But I do fight fish with the butt of the rod rather than the tip.I keep the butt at about a 45* angle. When you fight a fish likethat, most of the bend in the rod is in the middle. The tip staysalmost straight. Maybe that makes a difference.If "setting" is inherent in some cane rods, then thoserods were probably not heat-treated correctly while being made. Okay, gang, let's hear your thoughts on this..... Harry The second part of the question then, playing a fish from thatdistance .... wouldn't that tend to put a set in the rod? is 'setting' inherent in some cane ? and what might makethat the case ? the build up of the cane, the taper, theprior owner's care ? if the set were fixed a month ago,you wouldn't think it would be prior owner. from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Jun 23 16:03:32 1999 14:14:24 PDT Subject: Re: casting length *and* set I guess it's time to clarify what I was getting at in my earlier post about space and gravity. It wasn't clear after I read it myself. Recently, I read one authors definition of a "straight" rod. This book was of entertainment value and not on rodmaking specifically. He defined his down, or one where the tip turned up slightly when held in this position. I've not seen a rod that was flat level from butt to tip when held horizontally unless it had a whopper of a reverse set in it or was very short. I hope that makes more sense now. Mostly, I was curious as to whether others subscribed to the authors definition or not. I don't. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from cmj@post11.tele.dk Wed Jun 23 17:59:45 1999 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0200 Subject: Sv: casting length *and* set -----Original Message----- A friend recently gave directions for using final forms to straighten rods. The formis adjusted for the blank based on the original planing dimensions, thenthe blank islaid on the form with a steel plate on it. I have not tried it (working onmy firstblank) but my friend said his rods turn out "very straight". Any thoughtson thisapproach? I have the details at home. I'll be happy to scan and post it if there is anyinterest. A friend of mine uses a long "sand bag" filled with lead-shots, like pelletsfromshotgun cartridges. He puts the freshly glued/wrapped rod pieces in theplaning form andthe "sand bag" on the top of the pieces. Works fine. regards Carsten Dania Flyrods from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Jun 23 18:29:27 1999 0500 Subject: Re: casting length *and* set Just finished doing that about 15 minuets ago with a tip section for a sirD. I used aflat board and some shot bags the full lenght. Hope it will work as well asit should.The blank was real straight coming out of the binder. Will do the buttsection tomorrow.Will post the results if there is any interest. I am sure all of this has beencoveredbefore but on the first rod it is all new.I used a razor blade for the very last of the scraping, strips were assmooth asglass.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com mevans - Mark Evans wrote: A friend recently gave directions for using final forms to straightenrods. Theform is adjusted for the blank based on the original planing dimensions,then the blankis laid on the form with a steel plate on it. I have not tried it (working onmy firstblank) but my friend said his rods turn out "very straight". Any thoughtson thisapproach? I have the details at home. I'll be happy to scan and post it if there isanyinterest. -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 1999 2:58 PM Cc: fbcwin@fsbnet.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: casting length *and* set Jim,one of the first things to learn about rodmaking and the list is thatsome ofwhat you read contains a certain amount of poetic license.Do not feel that you are a failure because you cannot make a straightrod andcast a whole DT line. Just take the time to attend a rodmakersgathering andyou may find that you are well endowed after all.Terry Jim Freeman wrote: Harry, I've just done two tips by hanging weight, and they both still cameoutwith the same 1/2" curves that you've mentioned. They darn surelookedstraight while hanging. I've got two more tips that I'm going to try bysetting down into my form. Let you know how that comes out. Jim----------> > > > From: Harry Boyd Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: casting length *and* setDate: Tuesday, June 22, 1999 4:04 PM Terry,You make a fine point. There are, as Chris pointed out, few"straight" rods. I know that attempting to straighten glued sectionshascause me much grief. I'm finishing up a Leonard 50DF tapered rodthatwillhave one tip with a gentle 1/2" curve all along its length. I've triedeverything I can think of, from the heat gun to the steam iron, andthecurve is still there. Guess I'll have to keep this one for myself,huh?I have noticed that today's best makers (perhaps not the mostwell-known) produce sections that are closer to straight thanaverage.Mybest success comes by paying a great deal of attention tostraighteningthefreshly glued sections. Once they are glued, I have heated and bentmorethan one section to the point of delaminating without ever gettingitreallystraight. Those go to the scrap pile. One thing I don't hear muchaboutthese days, and that tempts me, is hanging the sections with weightontheends......As you imply, there may be methods of straightening from daysgone moreexperienced, best builders know something the rest of us do not. I'llkeepsearching out new ways, or old ways, or getting my rods closer tostraight.Any suggestions are welcome!HarryTERENCE ACKLAND wrote: Harry,if you ever go to any or the rodmakers gatherings, check out thestraightness of the rods being produced today and then you maythinkasI do that perhaps the whole story is not contained in the booksavailable.We have to be thankful that 14 footers are not in fashion!Terry Harry Boyd wrote: Sue,This ought to stir the pot a little. But that's great.Things are too quiet on the list lately. My opinion, and it'sjust from personal experience, no scientific data, is that no wellmade rod should regularly "take a set". heat treated as per Wayne's regimen, has caught quite a few bigfish. I have pictures of a 22" brown, a 26" brown, and a 19"football shaped rainbow all caught the same day. (Yes, WhiteRiver Arkansas fishing can be great!) The rainbow fought harderthan the two browns combined. Using 6x tippet, the 'bow tookabout 150' of backing, twice. The rod is still straight as anarrow.Back in my younger days when I fished for spawning browns(don't do that no more!) I used a Leonard 50DF one day and caught16 fish, all from 18-23 inches. That rod never took a set. Andno, I don't often turn the rod over, reel up, when fighting fish.But I do fight fish with the butt of the rod rather than the tip.I keep the butt at about a 45* angle. When you fight a fish likethat, most of the bend in the rod is in the middle. The tip staysalmost straight. Maybe that makes a difference.If "setting" is inherent in some cane rods, then thoserods were probably not heat-treated correctly while being made. Okay, gang, let's hear your thoughts on this..... Harry The second part of the question then, playing a fish from thatdistance .... wouldn't that tend to put a set in the rod? is 'setting' inherent in some cane ? and what might makethat the case ? the build up of the cane, the taper, theprior owner's care ? if the set were fixed a month ago,you wouldn't think it would be prior owner. from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Jun 23 18:38:02 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0500 Subject: Re: Sv: casting length *and* set Carsten, Mark,I don't want to seem flippant, 'cause I'm not. Doesn't that methodrequiregluing only one section at a time? You can't get more than one sectioninto the forms,can you? With epoxy, I glue up to 8 sections at once. (Two 3pc 2 tip rods)They allstart to cure at about the same time. Let's see, though; I could make 8sets of planingforms....Probably works fine with faster setting 15-30 minute glues. Butwith only oneset of forms, waiting 12-16 hours for the epoxy to initially set, thengluing anothersection, and so on, sounds awfully time consuming. Harry from MasjC1@aol.com Wed Jun 23 19:38:31 1999 Subject: Re: casting length *and* set I've used the rod in the form with a bar on top. It works reasonably well, but can still produce sections with a broad curve. Maybe I should increase the weight on top. I must admit that I've straingtened the section as much as I can prior to placing in the form. Mark from jonrc@atlantic.net Wed Jun 23 19:45:28 1999 berlin.atlantic.net(8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA08102; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:45:24 -0400 rio.atlantic.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA12180; Wed, 23 Jun 199920:45:21 -0400 Subject: Re: casting length *and* set Sue Here in Florida where the FF types are used to long casts for reds andtarpon, many will take one of my cane rods and strip off 60' of line tocast. That is a typical cast for them. I gently explain that most of myrods are designed to cast around the 30' distance. My feeling is that acane rod can be designed to cast the whole line if that is the desire.It takes a good caster to do it because cane typically does not developthe line speed that the plastic rods do. I am presently working of a couple of 8' 6-7wts that the owner will beable to cast the entire length of the line. That's one of the requeststhat he made when we talked about the design of the rod. Fighting a fish properly should not put a set in a rod. BUT in the heatof battle it is easy to put to much stress on a cane rod (a graphite rodas well). I recommend that when fishing it is a good idea to not put thegrip past a 90 degree angle to the line. I also recommend that whenfighting a large fish that the rod should be turned to even out thestress. Here in florida you can find many old cane boat rods. These are verystiff cane rods typically less that 5' in length. These old cane rodshave guides on two sides. You fight the fish until the rod has a setthen you turn the rod over the next time you go fishing and the set istaken out. --Casting for the fish that has been seen in one's mind time and timeagain. Casting for that magic moment, when everything comes together,the fly is taken and the familiar pulsating tension is felt running thelength of the cane rod allowing the angler just a glimpse of the mysterybelow the surface of the water. Jonathan ClarkeTwin Pines Rod Co.2800 4th St. No #112St. Petersburg, FL 33704 http://rio.atlantic.net/~jonrc from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Jun 23 19:56:01 1999 Thu, 24 Jun 1999 08:55:36 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: RE: casting length *and* set As long as the form is straight this works. Makes sure you wipe excessglue from the blank before doing this and try using masking tape every 5inches or so instead of a weight so you can see everthing is ok. Tony On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, mevans - Mark Evans wrote: A friend recently gave directions for using final forms to straightenrods. The formis adjusted for the blank based on the original planing dimensions, thenthe blank islaid on the form with a steel plate on it. I have not tried it (working onmy firstblank) but my friend said his rods turn out "very straight". Any thoughtson thisapproach? I have the details at home. I'll be happy to scan and post it if there isanyinterest. -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 1999 2:58 PM Cc: fbcwin@fsbnet.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: casting length *and* set Jim,one of the first things to learn about rodmaking and the list is that someofwhat you read contains a certain amount of poetic license.Do not feel that you are a failure because you cannot make a straight rodandcast a whole DT line. Just take the time to attend a rodmakers gatheringandyou may find that you are well endowed after all.Terry Jim Freeman wrote: Harry, I've just done two tips by hanging weight, and they both still came outwith the same 1/2" curves that you've mentioned. They darn sure lookedstraight while hanging. I've got two more tips that I'm going to try bysetting down into my form. Let you know how that comes out. Jim----------From: Harry Boyd Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: casting length *and* setDate: Tuesday, June 22, 1999 4:04 PM Terry,You make a fine point. There are, as Chris pointed out, few"straight" rods. I know that attempting to straighten glued sectionshascause me much grief. I'm finishing up a Leonard 50DF tapered rodthatwillhave one tip with a gentle 1/2" curve all along its length. I've triedeverything I can think of, from the heat gun to the steam iron, and thecurve is still there. Guess I'll have to keep this one for myself, huh?I have noticed that today's best makers (perhaps not the mostwell-known) produce sections that are closer to straight thanaverage.Mybest success comes by paying a great deal of attention tostraighteningthefreshly glued sections. Once they are glued, I have heated and bentmorethan one section to the point of delaminating without ever getting itreallystraight. Those go to the scrap pile. One thing I don't hear muchaboutthese days, and that tempts me, is hanging the sections with weightontheends......As you imply, there may be methods of straightening from daysgone moreexperienced, best builders know something the rest of us do not. I'llkeepsearching out new ways, or old ways, or getting my rods closer tostraight.Any suggestions are welcome!HarryTERENCE ACKLAND wrote: Harry,if you ever go to any or the rodmakers gatherings, check out thestraightness of the rods being produced today and then you maythinkasI do that perhaps the whole story is not contained in the booksavailable.We have to be thankful that 14 footers are not in fashion!Terry Harry Boyd wrote: Sue,This ought to stir the pot a little. But that's great.Things are too quiet on the list lately. My opinion, and it'sjust from personal experience, no scientific data, is that no wellmade rod should regularly "take a set". heat treated as per Wayne's regimen, has caught quite a few bigfish. I have pictures of a 22" brown, a 26" brown, and a 19"football shaped rainbow all caught the same day. (Yes, WhiteRiver Arkansas fishing can be great!) The rainbow fought harderthan the two browns combined. Using 6x tippet, the 'bow tookabout 150' of backing, twice. The rod is still straight as anarrow.Back in my younger days when I fished for spawning browns(don't do that no more!) I used a Leonard 50DF one day and caught16 fish, all from 18-23 inches. That rod never took a set. Andno, I don't often turn the rod over, reel up, when fighting fish.But I do fight fish with the butt of the rod rather than the tip.I keep the butt at about a 45* angle. When you fight a fish likethat, most of the bend in the rod is in the middle. The tip staysalmost straight. Maybe that makes a difference.If "setting" is inherent in some cane rods, then thoserods were probably not heat-treated correctly while being made. Okay, gang, let's hear your thoughts on this..... Harry The second part of the question then, playing a fish from thatdistance .... wouldn't that tend to put a set in the rod? is 'setting' inherent in some cane ? and what might makethat the case ? the build up of the cane, the taper, theprior owner's care ? if the set were fixed a month ago,you wouldn't think it would be prior owner. /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Jun 23 19:59:58 1999 Thu, 24 Jun 1999 08:59:36 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: casting length *and* set Could be there is a sweep in the form? Try tightly stretching a stringalong the groove to see if it's straight. Tony On Wed, 23 Jun 1999 MasjC1@aol.com wrote: I've used the rod in the form with a bar on top. It works reasonably well, but can still produce sections with a broad curve. Maybe I shouldincrease the weight on top. I must admit that I've straingtened the section asmuch as I can prior to placing in the form. Mark /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from brookie@frii.com Wed Jun 23 21:22:59 1999 Subject: Re: Grayrock VVVVVVVV At 09:58 PM 6/23/99 -0400, you wrote:Sorry for not reporting in earlier - BUT - the HEX fishing has been really-really great - Biondo has arrived - or rather the Pale Ale is here. Lookingforward to a great rest of the week - Miss you Harry Love :-)Wayne I hope these chaps take pictures , yes ? i think the one websiteI DID see with cane, canebuilders was the southern gathering, right?Someone coerce, cajole and otherwise convince ( note the c's please )them to put up images ! *G* from irvine@bamboorods.org Wed Jun 23 22:58:21 1999 4.30.0010/LC0055.00.e068cef4) with ESMTP id hudkaaaa for;Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:58:10 -0700 Subject: Great Western Would like to get a consensus from those who would be interested in agathering in the Bishop area this fall as to what date would be best. Iwould like to have it as late into the fall as possible i.e. late Oct.The general season closes the last day of Oct but the Owens stays openall year. Lots of great water would be closed if we go after Oct 31 butwe could always go for a great fishing in the new 2000, I am open forwhatever the group would likeTight Lines, Chuck from Craig.Naldrett@ibm.net Thu Jun 24 00:36:20 1999 (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA67544 for; Thu, 24 Jun 199905:36:15 GMT Subject: Sharpes/Ritz Got a chance to cast a Sharpes/Ritz (sp?) tonight, 8' 4",2piece,staggered ferrule 6DT. Very tasty rod, I plan to built one & havethe loan of it for a few weeks to measure & fish it. It was built from aferruled blank by one of the lads in our local club but he didn't knowanything about it's background. Did a search in the Archives, can't find a reference to it. What I'mlooking for is any info on the rod. Why staggered ferrule, I assume Ritzis the infamous Charles Ritz. Any other general info would beappreciated, I'm just curious about details of the stick.CheersCraig from Canerods@aol.com Thu Jun 24 08:20:52 1999 Subject: Re: Great Western In a message dated 6/23/99 9:03:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time, irvine@bamboorods.org writes: Would like to get a consensus from those who would be interested in agathering in the Bishop area this fall as to what date would be best. Iwould like to have it as late into the fall as possible i.e. late Oct.The general season closes the last day of Oct but the Owens stays openall year. Lots of great water would be closed if we go after Oct 31 butwe could always go for a great fishing in the new 2000, I am open forwhatever the group would likeTight Lines, Chuck Chuck, Sound good to me. I've fished the Owens Gorge over Thanksgiving - it was a bit cool. (IE -snow at the rim) Even though it was a holiday weekend, rooms were easy tobook. Very much off season! Also, the Sierra Pacific FF club has a member that owns a small B&B in the Bishop area - maybe we could book it for themeeting spot of Westrock 99/00? Don Burns from arnold.jl@pg.com Thu Jun 24 08:21:50 1999 [192.44.184.138] 1999)) id8525679A.00496117 ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:21:29 -0400 Subject: RE: casting length *and* set This method was written about in "The Planing Form" newsletter. I believeOctober of '97' and was developed by a Canadian rodmaker(sorry for notrecallingyour name). I have used this method on the last couple of rods and havebeenvery happy with the results. I am terrible at rolling out a section andtweakinga section straight. This method of expanding the planing form by a factorof1.72" x final spline dimension, allows for the taper to be consistent evenwitha layer of waxpaper and binding string. The wax paper protects the formandmakes clean up easy. With just a few alignment runs of setting the sectioninthe form and placing the steel plate or plates on top, the section can beleftto dry and almost always left to dry as straight as the cane will allow. Iusethe Stanley Quickgrip vises (or other like vise) to secure and sqaure theplatesover top the section and the planing form. This will help with any possibletwisting action the section may have. The tip sections are tough to seewithoutusing a good light source, so I use a really bright flashlight to make surethere are no twists and everything is aligned. I do a significant amount ofvisual inspection to insure that the section is seated in the form properly.Asa note to the whole process, I do roll the section as the books talk aboutand Ieven use a hard roller to run down the flats. This is probably a good thingtodo even if using the planing forms to seat the splines together. The steel plates are available at places like Lowes or Home Depot. Thewifesupplied the wax paper..... Jeff Please respond to mevans@acxiom.com Subject: RE: casting length *and* set A friend recently gave directions for using final forms to straighten rods. Theform is adjusted for the blank based on the original planing dimensions,thenthe blank is laid on the form with a steel plate on it. I have not tried it(working on my first blank) but my friend said his rods turn out "verystraight". Any thoughts on this approach? I have the details at home. I'll be happy to scan and post it if there is anyinterest. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: casting length *and* set Jim,one of the first things to learn about rodmaking and the list is that someofwhat you read contains a certain amount of poetic license.Do not feel that you are a failure because you cannot make a straight rodandcast a whole DT line. Just take the time to attend a rodmakers gatheringandyou may find that you are well endowed after all.Terry Jim Freeman wrote: Harry, I've just done two tips by hanging weight, and they both still came outwith the same 1/2" curves that you've mentioned. They darn sure lookedstraight while hanging. I've got two more tips that I'm going to try bysetting down into my form. Let you know how that comes out. Jim----------From: Harry Boyd Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: casting length *and* setDate: Tuesday, June 22, 1999 4:04 PM Terry,You make a fine point. There are, as Chris pointed out, few"straight" rods. I know that attempting to straighten glued sectionshascause me much grief. I'm finishing up a Leonard 50DF tapered rod thatwillhave one tip with a gentle 1/2" curve all along its length. I've triedeverything I can think of, from the heat gun to the steam iron, and thecurve is still there. Guess I'll have to keep this one for myself, huh?I have noticed that today's best makers (perhaps not the mostwell-known) produce sections that are closer to straight than average.Mybest success comes by paying a great deal of attention to straighteningthefreshly glued sections. Once they are glued, I have heated and bentmorethan one section to the point of delaminating without ever getting itreallystraight. Those go to the scrap pile. One thing I don't hear much aboutthese days, and that tempts me, is hanging the sections with weight ontheends......As you imply, there may be methods of straightening from daysgone experienced, best builders know something the rest of us do not. I'llkeepsearching out new ways, or old ways, or getting my rods closer tostraight.Any suggestions are welcome!HarryTERENCE ACKLAND wrote: Harry,if you ever go to any or the rodmakers gatherings, check out thestraightness of the rods being produced today and then you may thinkasI do that perhaps the whole story is not contained in the booksavailable.We have to be thankful that 14 footers are not in fashion!Terry Harry Boyd wrote: Sue,This ought to stir the pot a little. But that's great.Things are too quiet on the list lately. My opinion, and it'sjust from personal experience, no scientific data, is that no wellmade rod should regularly "take a set". heat treated as per Wayne's regimen, has caught quite a few bigfish. I have pictures of a 22" brown, a 26" brown, and a 19"football shaped rainbow all caught the same day. (Yes, WhiteRiver Arkansas fishing can be great!) The rainbow fought harderthan the two browns combined. Using 6x tippet, the 'bow tookabout 150' of backing, twice. The rod is still straight as anarrow.Back in my younger days when I fished for spawning browns(don't do that no more!) I used a Leonard 50DF one day and caught16 fish, all from 18-23 inches. That rod never took a set. Andno, I don't often turn the rod over, reel up, when fighting fish.But I do fight fish with the butt of the rod rather than the tip.I keep the butt at about a 45* angle. When you fight a fish likethat, most of the bend in the rod is in the middle. The tip staysalmost straight. Maybe that makes a difference.If "setting" is inherent in some cane rods, then thoserods were probably not heat-treated correctly while being made. Okay, gang, let's hear your thoughts on this..... Harry The second part of the question then, playing a fish from thatdistance .... wouldn't that tend to put a set in the rod? is 'setting' inherent in some cane ? and what might makethat the case ? the build up of the cane, the taper, theprior owner's care ? if the set were fixed a month ago,you wouldn't think it would be prior owner. from arnold.jl@pg.com Thu Jun 24 08:29:46 1999 [192.44.184.138] 1999)) id8525679A.0049E4B0 ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:27:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Sv: casting length *and* set Harry, this method wouldn't work for you....but for a hack like me, who ishappyto build a few rods a year it does. It is a nice method if you only have alittle time to glue a section and get it straight. Jeff Please respond to fbcwin@fsbnet.com Subject: Re: Sv: casting length *and* set Carsten, Mark,I don't want to seem flippant, 'cause I'm not. Doesn't that methodrequire gluing only one section at a time? You can't get more than onesectioninto the forms, can you? With epoxy, I glue up to 8 sections at once. (Two3pc2 tip rods) They all start to cure at about the same time. Let's see,though; Icould make 8 sets of planingforms....Probably works fine with faster setting 15-30 minute glues. Butwithonly one set of forms, waiting 12-16 hours for the epoxy to initially set,thengluing another section, and so on, sounds awfully time consuming. Harry from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Jun 24 08:56:04 1999 Subject: Re: Sv: casting length *and* set This may work ok if you wrap the rod very loosely. You can only straightenthis way byactually sliding the strips against each other. You must be able to suspendenoughweight to overcome the friction in the glue lines that the wrapping threadhas produced.Terry Carsten Jorgensen wrote: -----Original Message-----From: mevans - Mark Evans A friend recently gave directions for using final forms to straightenrods. The formis adjusted for the blank based on the original planing dimensions, thenthe blank islaid on the form with a steel plate on it. I have not tried it (working onmy firstblank) but my friend said his rods turn out "very straight". Any thoughtson thisapproach? I have the details at home. I'll be happy to scan and post it if there isanyinterest. A friend of mine uses a long "sand bag" filled with lead-shots, likepellets fromshotgun cartridges. He puts the freshly glued/wrapped rod pieces in theplaning formandthe "sand bag" on the top of the pieces. Works fine. regards Carsten Dania Flyrods from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Jun 24 09:05:38 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:05:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Sv: casting length *and* set Jeff,Don't denigrate your skills, or over estimate mine! I've built lessthan 15rods, total. One thing I like to do is plane several sections at once, thenchangethe form settings. I like building two identical rods, one for me, one forsomeoneelse. My hopes are to eventually develop a stable of rods for myself. Butso far,I've wound up with just three for myself.In no way did I mean to imply that the method was not a good one. But itdoes seem more appropriate for Urac and some of the other faster settingglues. Harry arnold.jl@pg.com wrote: Harry, this method wouldn't work for you....but for a hack like me,snipped from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Jun 24 09:19:11 1999 Subject: Re: Sharpes/Ritz I remember a book I read years ago, I think it was "a fly fishers life".Therewas a photo of poor Ritz's thumb deformed by years of "thumb on the top"flycasting.I found it hilarious that this was included because the guy was from aprivileged back ground and spent his whole life just buggering around.Perhaps in another time, in another country, Pizon and Michel could havebeen onthe end of a law suit?Terry Craig Naldrett wrote: Got a chance to cast a Sharpes/Ritz (sp?) tonight, 8' 4",2piece,staggered ferrule 6DT. Very tasty rod, I plan to built one & havethe loan of it for a few weeks to measure & fish it. It was built from aferruled blank by one of the lads in our local club but he didn't knowanything about it's background.Did a search in the Archives, can't find a reference to it. What I'mlooking for is any info on the rod. Why staggered ferrule, I assume Ritzis the infamous Charles Ritz. Any other general info would beappreciated, I'm just curious about details of the stick.CheersCraig from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Jun 24 09:34:11 1999 Thu, 24 Jun 1999 22:33:29 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: Sv: casting length *and* set wugate.wustl.edu id JAA19583 As I write this I have the 2nd tip for a para 15 curing in a set of forms.I used Shell Epon for this one. I also about 2 hrs ago used resorcinol onthe 1st tip of a Driggs and this one is hanging. The binding is tight onboth but I'd expect the para 15 tip to be the straighter one as the epoxytakes so long to cure the splines will move enough to straighten and I've found the method works well.Resorcinol having a shorter working time is prob better hanging withweights, though I do notice the sections can develop some twist whenhung which never happens using the planing form method.The last few times I've use the planing form method I've used maskingtaperather than steel and this works well too.So far I haven't had any sections cure absolutely straight and not needingat least a very little heat straightening.If anybody reading this dosn't get TPF you'd have missed a section by TedBarnhart Jr. who suggested three different ideas re. curing the sections straight. The most promissing IMHO wasthe one he suggested whereby supports are used every 2 inches. Thesesupportshave a hex section cut into them allowing the blank to be possitioned. Tedsuggests tying cord at each section but I'd to try this with aconventionaly wraped section. This is exactly as you'd make an octagonalsectioned hollow mast, except in the case of a mast you normaly use hugepipe clamps.This also struck me a being a way of locking twists into a spiral rod. Tony On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: This may work ok if you wrap the rod very loosely. You can onlystraighten this way byactually sliding the strips against each other. You must be able to suspendenoughweight to overcome the friction in the glue lines that the wrapping threadhas produced.Terry Carsten Jorgensen wrote: /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Jun 24 09:39:03 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:38:55 -0500 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Grayrock VVVVVVVV Sue,Let's see, in my role as the officially envious, non- Grayrockattendingantagonist, I have made similar points. There is at least one picture fromlastyear's TBBBQ online at http://flyanglersonline.com/ It's under the"Castwell'sCorner" Archives, 2nd Quarter 1998, titled "Unnamed to Protect theInnocent (orGuilty) ". There we see one illustrious rodmaker with an unusual rod! Takes aminute or two to find the photo, but may be worth your while.Still no Grayrock fish pictures, but I have promises for many, manyfishpictures. Let's see if this bunch can deliver........On the other hand, fish ARE caught, and photographed, at the SouthernGathering. For one example, see Charlie Curro's "modest" punkinseed at:http://www.curro.net/srg99/srg99-4.html Don't pay any attention to theother Harry Sue K. wrote: At 09:58 PM 6/23/99 -0400, Wayne C. wrote:Miss you Harry Love :-)Wayne I hope these chaps take pictures , yes ? i think the one websiteI DID see with cane, canebuilders was the southern gathering, right?Someone coerce, cajole and otherwise convince ( note the c's please )them to put up images ! *G* from JSUAREZ@impsat.com.ar Thu Jun 24 09:45:27 1999 Subject: RE: Sv: casting length *and* set Hi, I'm just getting into this, and I was thinking if it might work make afew straight grooves in a couple of peices of wood (as if they were roughplaning forms) and set the sections on them with weights con top...). Isthere any reason why this will not work? would it be any worse thanhangingthem with weights? Thanks,Pablo SurezImpSat Argentina S.A.Tel.: 362-4240 int.: 6726email: jsuarez@impsat.com.ar -----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd [SMTP:fbcwin@fsbnet.com]Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 1999 8:35 PM Subject: Re: Sv: casting length *and* set Carsten, Mark,I don't want to seem flippant, 'cause I'm not. Doesn't thatmethod require gluing only one section at a time? You can't get morethanone section into the forms, can you? With epoxy, I glue up to 8 sectionsat once. (Two 3pc 2 tip rods) They all start to cure at about the sametime. Let's see, though; I could make 8 sets of planingforms....Probably works fine with faster setting 15-30 minute glues. Butwith only one set of forms, waiting 12-16 hours for the epoxy toinitiallyset, then gluing another section, and so on, sounds awfully timeconsuming. Harry from brookie@frii.com Thu Jun 24 09:52:06 1999 Subject: Re: Grayrock VVVVVVVV harry, et al, Sue,Let's see, in my role as the officially envious, non- Grayrockattendingantagonist, I have made similar points. There is at least one picture from lastyear's TBBBQ online at http://flyanglersonline.com/ It's under the"Castwell'sCorner" Archives, 2nd Quarter 1998, titled "Unnamed to Protect theInnocent (orGuilty) ". There we see one illustrious rodmaker with an unusual rod!Takes aminute or two to find the photo, but may be worth your while. went tripping over to the website, actually to be pedantic harry, thatwouldbe the "3rd Quarter 1998 " where those photos are. and yes, found theillustrious WC in his patagonia socks and sandals..... the phrase ' wielding a big stick ' takes on realistic proportions inthese photos *G* from rclarke@eou.edu Thu Jun 24 09:58:15 1999 08:24:51 -0700 "irvine@bamboorods.org","rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: RE: Great Western Late October works great for me. I may be carpooling (fishing on theway)with someother Oregon folks, so it depends on what they say. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Great Western In a message dated 6/23/99 9:03:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time, irvine@bamboorods.org writes: Would like to get a consensus from those who would be interested in agathering in the Bishop area this fall as to what date would be best. Iwould like to have it as late into the fall as possible i.e. late Oct.The general season closes the last day of Oct but the Owens stays openall year. Lots of great water would be closed if we go after Oct 31 butwe could always go for a great fishing in the new 2000, I am open forwhatever the group would likeTight Lines, Chuck Chuck, Sound good to me. I've fished the Owens Gorge over Thanksgiving - it was a bit cool. (IE -snow at the rim) Even though it was a holiday weekend, rooms were easy tobook. Very much off season! Also, the Sierra Pacific FF club has a member that owns a small B&B in the Bishop area - maybe we could book it for themeeting spot of Westrock 99/00? Don Burns from mevans@acxiom.com Thu Jun 24 10:37:39 1999 (router,SLMail V3.2); Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:31:21 -0500 (204.107.111.23::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V3.2); Thu, 24 Jun1999 10:31:20-0500 popmail.conway.acxiom.com ; Thu Jun24 10:31:19 1999 -0500 (5.5.2448.0) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Sv: casting length *and* set Harry,Good point. Working on my first ("1000 hour") rod, I'm just hoping to getstraightsections that hold together the first time around. Let's see, 15 hours persectionwould be about 3% of the total time. *G* After SRG II, I expect my skills will be so vastly improved that I'll getthat secondrod done in under 900 hrs ... maybe from only one culm! -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Sv: casting length *and* set Carsten, Mark,I don't want to seem flippant, 'cause I'm not. Doesn't that methodrequiregluing only one section at a time? You can't get more than one sectioninto the forms,can you? With epoxy, I glue up to 8 sections at once. (Two 3pc 2 tip rods)They allstart to cure at about the same time. Let's see, though; I could make 8sets of planingforms....Probably works fine with faster setting 15-30 minute glues. Butwith only oneset of forms, waiting 12-16 hours for the epoxy to initially set, thengluing anothersection, and so on, sounds awfully time consuming. Harry from brewer@teleport.com Thu Jun 24 10:46:57 1999 "hamachi"via SMTP by relay1.teleport.com, id smtpdAAA0A_Pyi; Thu Jun 2408:46:47 1999 0700 Subject: RE: Great Western Rob, I think that would work for me. I would like to fish the Mammothlakes loop and HotCreek too, so maybe before Oct 31? -Randy Brewer -----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Great Western Late October works great for me. I may be carpooling (fishing on theway)with someother Oregon folks, so it depends on what they say. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Great Western In a message dated 6/23/99 9:03:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time, irvine@bamboorods.org writes: Would like to get a consensus from those who would be interested in agathering in the Bishop area this fall as to what date would be best. Iwould like to have it as late into the fall as possible i.e. late Oct.The general season closes the last day of Oct but the Owens stays openall year. Lots of great water would be closed if we go after Oct 31 butwe could always go for a great fishing in the new 2000, I am open forwhatever the group would likeTight Lines, Chuck Chuck, Sound good to me. I've fished the Owens Gorge over Thanksgiving - it was a bit cool. (IE -snow at the rim) Even though it was a holiday weekend, rooms were easy tobook. Very much off season! Also, the Sierra Pacific FF club has a member that owns a small B&B in the Bishop area - maybe we could book it for themeeting spot of Westrock 99/00? Don Burns from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Jun 24 11:01:28 1999 Thu, 24 Jun 1999 23:59:09 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: RE: Sv: casting length *and* set wugate.wustl.edu id LAA26644 Jose,I think either method works, the idea of cutting a groove in wood would befine. As I mentioned in a prev post I think hanging works better for fastcuring glues as you don't have much time to mess about, also the splinesdon't *seem* to straighten as well with the faster setting glues as theydo with epoxy. Tony On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, ARG-SUAREZ, JOSE PABLO wrote: Hi, I'm just getting into this, and I was thinking if it might work make afew straight grooves in a couple of peices of wood (as if they were roughplaning forms) and set the sections on them with weights con top...). Isthere any reason why this will not work? would it be any worse thanhangingthem with weights? Thanks,Pablo SurezImpSat Argentina S.A.Tel.: 362-4240 int.: 6726email: jsuarez@impsat.com.ar -----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd [SMTP:fbcwin@fsbnet.com]Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 1999 8:35 PM Subject: Re: Sv: casting length *and* set Carsten, Mark,I don't want to seem flippant, 'cause I'm not. Doesn't thatmethod require gluing only one section at a time? You can't get morethanone section into the forms, can you? With epoxy, I glue up to 8sectionsat once. (Two 3pc 2 tip rods) They all start to cure at about the sametime. Let's see, though; I could make 8 sets of planingforms....Probably works fine with faster setting 15-30 minute glues. Butwith only one set of forms, waiting 12-16 hours for the epoxy toinitiallyset, then gluing another section, and so on, sounds awfully timeconsuming. Harry /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Thu Jun 24 12:15:09 1999 0400 Subject: Re[2]: Sv: casting length *and* set Terry, could you elaborate on what you are saying about the need to hangweight on a tightly wrapped blank? What friction must be overcome? Andy p.s. Ray Gould had suggested (I don't remember if it was to the list or not) using a setup with 2 drill chucks mounted to a steel rod, holding the blank,to simulate the weight approach but still be able to sight down the rod fortwists and make adjustments. This would also address the issue of the weighthanging off to one side and still putting a bend in the rod (I think Carsten had mentioned the 2 string approach as a solution to this when hanging withweight) ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Sv: casting length *and* set Author: at Tcpgate This may work ok if you wrap the rod very loosely. You can only straightenthis way by actually sliding the strips against each other. You must be able tosuspend enough weight to overcome the friction in the glue lines that thewrapping thread has produced.Terry Carsten Jxrgensen wrote: -----Original Message-----From: mevans - Mark Evans A friend recently gave directions for using final forms to straightenrods. The form is adjusted for the blank based on the original planingdimensions, then the blank is laid on the form with a steel plate on it. I have not tried it (working on my first blank) but my friend said his rods turn out "very straight".Any thoughts on this approach? I have the details at home. I'll be happy to scan and post it if there isany interest. A friend of mine uses a long "sand bag" filled with lead-shots, likepellets fromshotgun cartridges. He puts the freshly glued/wrapped rod pieces in theplaning form andthe "sand bag" on the top of the pieces. Works fine. regards Carsten Dania Flyrods from mschaffer@mindspring.com Thu Jun 24 13:09:23 1999 Subject: Question for the list. Guys,With my first attempt, so far, I've gotten the strips through the temperingstage, but in looking over the strips REAL closely, I've noticed that someof the nodes might be able to be flattened even more. My question iswhetheror not I can flatten them some more, even though they've already beentempered, or will doing this mess them up?Thanks for any help you guys can give,Trying my best to get my mistakes out of the way early!! (VBG) Mike Doc (Mike Shaffer)(mschaffer@mindspring.com) from watson@cape-consult.co.uk Thu Jun 24 14:08:54 1999 (BST) Subject: Turning Motor Chuck boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01BEBE7D.39FCA280" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BEBE7D.39FCA280 Help!A friend of mine has a wonderful little chuck on his turning motor which =he tells me he got from the US, from someone who he thinks was called =Jann's Netcraft. I've searched the web to no avail.Here's a descriptionTwo 4" dia discs in the vertical plane held about 1/4"apart. Through =the outer disc (which would be closest to the workpiece) protrude three=horizontal, rubber faced legs which are the jaws of the chuck (in =section they are not disimilar to brake pads from a bicycle. in the =inner plate there are three curved slots which extend radially from the =centre. By holding the outer disc and rotating the inner, the 'jaws =move in and out. Behind the inner plate, between the plate and the =turning motor is a clamping screw (like a wingnut - not sure if that =will make sense to you guys in the US - perhaps Terry can help!) which =holds the two discs in place, locking the jaws. So the process is that =you place the rod end on one of the jaws, hold the outer disc, rotate =the inner until the jaws gently close on the workpiece and then tighten =the clamp screw locking the whole thing together.It is fantastic and I dearly need to get about two or three of them. =Can someone help? It sounds like something old but its not it is of new =manufacture - at least within the last 5-7 years. Apologies for the ='drawing'(?) below. Outer Disc> | | Help!A friend of mine has a wonderful= his turning motor which he tells me he got from the US, from someone who= avail.Here's adescriptionTwo 4" dia discs in the = the workpiece) protrude three horizontal, rubber faced legs which are = plate and the turning motor is a clamping screw (like a wingnut - not = that will make sense to you guys in the US - perhaps Terry can help!) = place the rod end on one of the jaws, hold the outer disc, rotate the = until the jaws gently close on the workpiece and then tighten the clamp = locking the whole thing together.It is fantastic and I dearly need to get about two = = is of new manufacture - at least within the last 5-7 years. Apologies = 'drawing'(?) below. Disc Turning = Motor In anticipationTim. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BEBE7D.39FCA280-- from chris@artistree.com Thu Jun 24 14:50:59 1999 Subject: Re: Turning Motor Chuck Tim,Jann's Netcraft does carry a chuck like you mention. It's listed as areplacement part for a larger wrapping machine setup. Self CenteringChuck - Part #280-904. web: http://www.jannsnetcraft.com/phone: 1-800-638-2723 -- Regards,Chris Wohlford Tim & Jilly Watson wrote: Help!A friend of mine has a wonderful little chuck on his turning motorwhich he tells me he got from the US, from someone who he thinks wascalled Jann's Netcraft. I've searched the web to no avail.Here's a descriptionTwo 4" dia discs in the vertical plane held about 1/4"apart. Throughthe outer disc (which would be closest to the workpiece) protrudethree horizontal, rubber faced legs which are the jaws of the chuck(in section they are not disimilar to brake pads from a bicycle. inthe inner plate there are three curved slots which extend radially from the centre. By holding the outer disc and rotating the inner,the 'jaws move in and out. Behind the inner plate, between the plateand the turning motor is a clamping screw (like a wingnut - not sureif that will make sense to you guys in the US - perhaps Terry canhelp!) which holds the two discs in place, locking the jaws. So theprocess is that you place the rod end on one of the jaws, hold theouter disc, rotate the inner until the jaws gently close on theworkpiece and then tighten the clamp screw locking the whole thingtogether.It is fantastic and I dearly need to get about two or three of them.Can someone help? It sounds like something old but its not it is ofnew manufacture - at least within the last 5-7 years. Apologies forthe 'drawing'(?) below. Outer Disc> | | ___ | |Rod Section ___ | |_|_ Turning Motor___ | | || || |In anticipationTim. from saweiss@flash.net Thu Jun 24 15:14:37 1999 Subject: Re: Question for the list. Mike,Assuming that you have not yet final-planed, it's OK to re-flatten somenodes because the apex will probabbly be ok after excess bamboo is planedoff. Just be careful not to overheat the nodes and wind up with burnededgeson the strip.Steve Guys,With my first attempt, so far, I've gotten the strips through thetemperingstage, but in looking over the strips REAL closely, I've noticed that someof the nodes might be able to be flattened even more. My question iswhetheror not I can flatten them some more, even though they've already beentempered, or will doing this mess them up?Thanks for any help you guys can give,Trying my best to get my mistakes out of the way early!! (VBG) Mike Doc (Mike Shaffer)(mschaffer@mindspring.com) from jpsnbs@erols.com Thu Jun 24 18:04:40 1999 Subject: Re: Turning Motor Chuck boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01BEBE74.70E9B200" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BEBE74.70E9B200 Tim, the phone number for Jann's Netcraft is 1-800-638-2723. They are =located in Ohio. I believe their most recent catalog has the turning =motor you are describing. With no financial interest or endorsement =intended;Joe Swam-----Original Message-----From: Tim & Jilly Watson Date: Thursday, June 24, 1999 3:13 PMSubject: Turning Motor Chuck Help!A friend of mine has a wonderful little chuck on his turning motor =which he tells me he got from the US, from someone who he thinks was =called Jann's Netcraft. I've searched the web to no avail.Here's a descriptionTwo 4" dia discs in the vertical plane held about 1/4"apart. =Through the outer disc (which would be closest to the workpiece) =protrude three horizontal, rubber faced legs which are the jaws of the =chuck (in section they are not disimilar to brake pads from a bicycle. =in the inner plate there are three curved slots which extend radially = from the centre. By holding the outer disc and rotating the inner, the ='jaws move in and out. Behind the inner plate, between the plate and =the turning motor is a clamping screw (like a wingnut - not sure if that =will make sense to you guys in the US - perhaps Terry can help!) which =holds the two discs in place, locking the jaws. So the process is that =you place the rod end on one of the jaws, hold the outer disc, rotate =the inner until the jaws gently close on the workpiece and then tighten =the clamp screw locking the whole thing together.It is fantastic and I dearly need to get about two or three of them. =Can someone help? It sounds like something old but its not it is of =new manufacture - at least within the last 5-7 years. Apologies for the ='drawing'(?) below. Outer Disc> | | Tim, the phone number for Jann's= interest or endorsement intended;Joe =Swam -----Original = Tim & Jilly Watson <watson@cape-consult.co.uk&g= Rodmakers <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Thursday, June 24, 1999 3:13 PMSubject: Turning Motor= ChuckHelp!A friend of mine has awonderful = chuck on his turning motor which he tells me he got from the US, = someone who he thinks was called Jann's Netcraft. I've searched the = no avail.Here's a =descriptionTwo 4" dia discs in the = closest to the workpiece) protrude three horizontal, rubber faced = are the jaws of the chuck (in section they are not disimilar to = between the plate and the turning motor is a clamping screw (like a = - not sure if that will make sense to you guys in the US - perhaps = process is that you place the rod end on one of the jaws, hold the = disc, rotate the inner until the jaws gently close on the workpiece = tighten the clamp screw locking the whole thing =together.It is fantastic and I dearly need to get about = but its not it is of new manufacture - at least within the last 5-7 = Apologies for the 'drawing'(?) below. Disc Motor In anticipationTim. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BEBE74.70E9B200-- from Craig.Naldrett@ibm.net Thu Jun 24 18:13:30 1999 out5.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA36368 for; Thu,24 Jun 1999 23:13:26 GMT Subject: Re: Question for the list. Doc, there was a discussion about this a couple of weeks ago (Subject:Technical Question For The List"), check it out it might give you moreinput.CheersCraig from angelruten@smile.ch Fri Jun 25 04:13:08 1999 (MET DST) Subject: Ammonium C-first time user Dear Friends i want color a blank with ammonium carbonat - it`s my fist time: how much gramms i need for one rod and which temperature must i use inmy oven? Thanks for all help Stefan --Lang Info AccessDatenbanken - CD Rom - InternetliteraturInternet: http://www.buchlang.com/infoaccess/Stefan GrauInformation ConsultantMènzgraben 2CH-3011 Berne/SwitzerlandPhone: 031 310 84 84direct phone: ++41 ( 0 ) 31 310 84 78fax: 310 84 94ausgenommen:Montag vormittag,Dienstag nachmittagMittwoch ganzer Tag---------------------------------------------------------------Sicherheits-Hinweis: Diese elektronische Post ist nur fèr den oder die Empf€nger, welchein der Adress-Zeile genannt werden bestimmt!Falls Sie nicht zu diesen gehåren, verståsst jede- unerlaubte Kopie,- unerlaubte Weiterleitung,- unerlaubte Kenntnisnahme, auch vermutlich oeffentlicher Inhalte,- und unerlaubte Verbreitung der enthaltenen Nachricht(en),sowie jeder anderer unautorisierte Gebrauch gegen geltendes Recht. Falls Sie nicht zu den in der Adresszeile genannten Empf€nger(n)gehåren,so bitten wir Sie um Kontaktnahme des Absenders und Zerstårungder betreffenden Daten von Ihrem Computer._________________________________________ Security-Note: The information transmitted is intended only for the personor entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidentialand/or privileged material.Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, ortaking of any action in reliance upon, this information bypersons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.If you received this in error, please contact the sender and deletethe material from any computer. from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Fri Jun 25 08:00:12 1999 Subject: RE: Ammonium C-first time user Hi Stefan, I haven't tried ammonium carbonate on cane yet but Idid successfully darken some oak picture frames Ibuilt. I read in a book on Shaker furniture that thecommon technique to darken oak was to put the wood insome type of bin, add an open jar of ammonia, tape thelid of the bin shut, and place the bin in the hot sun.I did this with my picture frames and, after two days,darkened the tone from a beige to a milk chocolatebrown. I know this departs from the common method of addingammonia to the oven at the tempering stage but I thinkit warrants experimentation. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Behalf Of Stefan GrauSent: Friday, June 25, 1999 5:05 AM Subject: Ammonium C-first time user Dear Friends i want color a blank with ammonium carbonat- it`s my fist time: how much gramms i need for one rod andwhich temperature must i use inmy oven? Thanks for all help Stefan from jcole10@juno.com Fri Jun 25 08:21:48 1999 09:19:20 EDT Subject: Re: SV: casting length of cane JohanI have only been making rods for a short time and do not have a taperthat will produce a rod that will cast more than 60'. I was wondering ifyou would share some tapers that will produce the 80+ casts. The river Ifish most of time requires long casts. ThanksJohn Cole Knoxville TennesseeE-Mail jcole@juno.com On Mon, 21 Jun 1999 01:20:10 +0200 "=?ISO-8859- 1?Q?Johan_Nyg=E5rdvold?="writes:Sue K.I've been casting canes and graphites for at least twenty years, and I cansee no differences when it comes to lenght. In my collection of 60+ canerods there is just one rod which is not able to shoot all the line throughthe guides and that's the Hardy Marvel 7' 6''. This famous rod is notsupposed for long distance casting, I think. The other rods I have boughtand built myself have no problems putting out 80 - 90 feet.I'm now a paraholic and with my Martha Marie 7' 6' I can cover all waterwith a TT 5/6 Johan Nygaardsvold Norway ----------Fra: Sue K. Til: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduEmne: casting length of cane I have to ask, Is the casting distance of cane the same as graphite ?I see where folks might be casting long distances w/cane rods. In the 50'+ range. Typically I fish small creeks at high altitude in Colorado,so 30' is a long distance. The cane I have performs greatat that. Flinging line out longer would, in the parlance of 60's,"freak me out". Curious, how far do most of you cast when fishing with YOURcane ? suecolorado from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Fri Jun 25 08:30:55 1999 0400 Subject: News from Gehrke Those of you who have been following the George Gehrke $330 cane rodsagamight want to check out his web wite. It looks like he's done it! from destinycon@mindspring.com Fri Jun 25 08:42:36 1999 Subject: ferules Does anyone have and is willing to part with the specs. for ferules?(any,S.Zee's, S.Swiss and/or truncated) ie. length for sizes, wall thickness forsizes, etc., etc. Or a formula that would get me to this end? Please feel free to contact me off list. Any help would be greatlyapreciated.Gary H. from eestlow@srminc.com Fri Jun 25 09:02:23 1999 with ESMTP id 1999062508570282:3366 ;Fri, 25 Jun 1999 08:57:02 -0500 Subject: Re: ferules 1999) at06/25/9909:07:17 AM,Itemize by SMTP Server on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999)at 06/25/9908:57:03 AM,Serialize by Router on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999) at06/25/9908:57:04 AM,Serialize complete at 06/25/99 08:57:04 AM I think Chris Bogart's web site has a .pdf format spec sheet for Super Zferrules. Try: http://shelntel.net/canerod/images/superz-ferrule Best,-Ed Heidt .com> cc:Sent by: Subject: ferulesowner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu 06/25/99 08:50 AMPlease respond todestinycon Does anyone have and is willing to part with the specs. for ferules?(any,S.Zee's, S.Swiss and/or truncated) ie. length for sizes, wall thickness forsizes, etc., etc. Or a formula that would get me to this end?Please feel free to contact me off list. Any help would be greatlyapreciated.Gary H. from darrelll@earthlink.net Fri Jun 25 09:05:50 1999 Subject: Re: SV: casting length of cane \ Great Western Roundup Don't forget that technique is probably an even bigger factor to longcasts... I saw Lefty Kreh shoot accurate casts using only the tip section of a 3piece graphite rod, he was casting 60-70' casts... With the whole rod, hewas easily able to cast the entire line... On a 3wt I own I only can cast it about 35' but a very well known rodbuilder and expert casting instructor can easily cast 60'+ on my rod... andthe beautiful tight loops were a sight to behold... you'd think we wereusing two entirely different rods... Chuck,My preference is before the end of October as well... Darrell-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: SV: casting length of cane JohanI have only been making rods for a short time and do not have a taperthat will produce a rod that will cast more than 60'. I was wondering ifyou would share some tapers that will produce the 80+ casts. The river Ifish most of time requires long casts. ThanksJohn ColeKnoxville TennesseeE- Mail jcole@juno.com On Mon, 21 Jun 1999 01:20:10 +0200 "=?ISO-8859- 1?Q?Johan_Nyg=E5rdvold?="writes:Sue K.I've been casting canes and graphites for at least twenty years, andI cansee no differences when it comes to lenght. In my collection of 60+canerods there is just one rod which is not able to shoot all the linethroughthe guides and that's the Hardy Marvel 7' 6''. This famous rod isnotsupposed for long distance casting, I think. The other rods I haveboughtand built myself have no problems putting out 80 - 90 feet.I'm now a paraholic and with my Martha Marie 7' 6' I can cover allwaterwith a TT 5/6 Johan NygaardsvoldNorway ----------Fra: Sue K. Til: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduEmne: casting length of cane I have to ask, Is the casting distance of cane the same as graphite ?I see where folks might be casting long distances w/cane rods. In the 50'+ range. Typically I fish small creeks at high altitude in Colorado,so 30' is a long distance. The cane I have performs greatat that. Flinging line out longer would, in the parlance of 60's,"freak me out". Curious, how far do most of you cast when fishing with YOURcane ? suecolorado from eestlow@srminc.com Fri Jun 25 09:26:00 1999 with ESMTP id 1999062509203979:3377 ;Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:20:39 -0500 Subject: Re: ferules 1999) at06/25/9909:30:54 AM,Itemize by SMTP Server on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999)at 06/25/9909:20:40 AM,Serialize by Router on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999) at06/25/9909:20:40 AM,Serialize complete at 06/25/99 09:20:40 AM Typo in the url - try: http://shentel.net/canerod/images/superz-ferrule Best,-Ed Heidt .com> cc:Sent by: Subject: ferulesowner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu 06/25/99 08:50 AMPlease respond todestinycon Does anyone have and is willing to part with the specs. for ferules?(any,S.Zee's, S.Swiss and/or truncated) ie. length for sizes, wall thickness forsizes, etc., etc. Or a formula that would get me to this end?Please feel free to contact me off list. Any help would be greatlyapreciated.Gary H. from tklein@amgen.com Fri Jun 25 12:21:23 1999 smtp.amgen.com via smap (3.2) Subject: RE: Ammonium C-first time user I use an air gun oven, so I was afraid to try ammonium carbonate. Instead,Iused a bottle of the ammonia used in blueprint machines (you should beableto get it at drafting supply/art supply stores). I used duct tape to attach a piece of clear tubing over the mouth of thebottle and suspended my rod pieces in the tubing. Left it out in the sun allday, and got a nice medium brown tone to it. I wanted to get it a littledarker, so I put it in again the next day, but didn't get much added color.I'm not sure you can get it as dark as some of the older rods I've seen, butit still looks nice.---Tim ----------From: Richard Nantel[SMTP:richard.nantel@videotron.ca] Sent: Friday, June 25, 1999 6:59 AM Subject: RE: Ammonium C-first time user Hi Stefan, I haven't tried ammonium carbonate on cane yet but Idid successfully darken some oak picture frames Ibuilt. I read in a book on Shaker furniture that thecommon technique to darken oak was to put the wood insome type of bin, add an open jar of ammonia, tape thelid of the bin shut, and place the bin in the hot sun.I did this with my picture frames and, after two days,darkened the tone from a beige to a milk chocolatebrown. I know this departs from the common method of addingammonia to the oven at the tempering stage but I thinkit warrants experimentation. Richard -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Behalf Of Stefan GrauSent: Friday, June 25, 1999 5:05 AM Subject: Ammonium C-first time user Dear Friends i want color a blank with ammonium carbonat- it`s my fist time: how much gramms i need for one rod andwhich temperature must i use inmy oven? Thanks for all help Stefan from Craig.Naldrett@ibm.net Fri Jun 25 22:39:13 1999 out5.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA99070 for; Sat,26 Jun 1999 03:39:05 GMT Subject: Lost Mail I lost some mail, someone asked me offline (I think) for taper forSharpes/Ritz rod I queried about a couple of days ago. If you're outthere contact me again, will be measuring rod tonight or tomorrow.CheersCraig from lblan@provide.net Fri Jun 25 23:14:33 1999 Subject: Early Grayrock Report Had to return home for a wedding tomorrow, then I'm heading back uptomorrownight... big flies, big fish, lots of people and great fun! I'm fairlycertain that everyone has been *far* to busy to take any photo's, so I'lluh, swear that any report from there is accurate! Miles Tiernan delivered an outstanding example of Wayne's 7662 that hebuilt with a hex... Wayne promptly took all the "new rod" pressure off me bytaking a spirited 12" brown with it! I think I'll save the second tip formyself though... =8-) Haven't been spending much time playing rodmaker, but I have logged 30ishhours in the riverboat. I floated on Wednesday with Miles Tiernan (who didan outstanding job of handling the boat in a gale force wind) and ChuckCurro. We weathered one thunderstorm beneath a benevolent white pine,andscored bonus Trout Bum points by weathering the second storm of theeveningsipping coke in the gorgeous home of a local resident who came down totheriver and rescued us. He turned out to be a bamboo aficionado, Miles hadnoticed that he was fishing bamboo on Tuesday night, as we passed behindhimon our way downstream. We did invite him to the picnic to show ourappreciation for his letting us track through his house in our waders. Hmmmm.... speaking of Chuck Curro, rumor has it that another poster ortwomay be in the works. The picnic at Frank Love's Whispering Pines Campground was a success,Frank's smoked turkey, the wild boar backstrap donated by Sam Surre, andReed Curry's outstanding salad all died an early death. I don't think welost anyone in the river, and we had a super hatch to fish to. I stopped by the Clubhouse on my way out of town, a treasure trove of rodswaited to be cast on the bank of the AuSable. I didn't have time to playwith all of them, but managed to fall in love with a beautiful rod built onthe Payne 98 taper that Al Medved was kind enough to let us cast. I had toleave an entire table of Hank Woolman's rods to the hoard, didn't haveenough time to play with all of them. Al Medved's new router powered strip mill was in the clubhouse, I intendtotake a closer look tomorrow, if I make it back before Al and Carole depart. As I was leaving the Clubhouse, I couldn't help but notice Chuck Curro andOlaf Borge playing with a very realistic profile cut-out of a sheep.... Iwas afraid to ask... I'll leave it at that, it's bedtime. I'm sure the post Grayrock reports willstart as soon as the attendee's arrive home... and remember... it's allgospel! Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 1999 10:21 PM Subject: Re: Grayrock VVVVVVVV At 09:58 PM 6/23/99 -0400, you wrote:Sorry for not reporting in earlier - BUT - the HEX fishing hasbeen really -really great - Biondo has arrived - or rather the Pale Ale ishere. Lookingforward to a great rest of the week - Miss you Harry Love :-)Wayne I hope these chaps take pictures , yes ? i think the one websiteI DID see with cane, canebuilders was the southern gathering, right?Someone coerce, cajole and otherwise convince ( note the c's please )them to put up images ! *G* from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat Jun 26 04:28:22 1999 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Dave LeClair Hi Dave, could you contact me please I seem to have misplaced your address. Tony /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sat Jun 26 06:51:34 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Sat, 26 Jun 1999 06:51:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Lost Mail Craig,Lots of us would like to see the taper. Why not post it to thelist? Harry Craig Naldrett wrote: I lost some mail, someone asked me offline (I think) for taper forSharpes/Ritz rod I queried about a couple of days ago...... from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Sat Jun 26 09:11:34 1999 HAA09921 (5.5.2448.0) Has anybody received the January issue of the BFM yet? Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-237-1460Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from Craig.Naldrett@ibm.net Sat Jun 26 12:21:08 1999 (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA69850 for; Sat, 26 Jun 199917:20:55 GMT Subject: Sharpe/Ritz Taper - BFR Mag Several people have asked about taper for this rod so I'll post to thelist when I get it measured, sometime this weekend.Patrick Coffey queried about January issue of BFR, what issue is that?last thing I saw was Vol 1 No. 4.CheersCraig from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Sat Jun 26 12:44:49 1999 KAA28959; (5.5.2448.0) "'Craig.Naldrett@ibm.net'" Subject: RE: Sharpe/Ritz Taper - BFR Mag the last issue I got was vol 1 no 5/6 Sept/Oct & Nov/Dec 1998. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-237-1460Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ----------From: Craig Naldrett[SMTP:Craig.Naldrett@ibm.net] Sent: Saturday, June 26, 1999 10:17 AM Subject: Sharpe/Ritz Taper - BFR Mag Several people have asked about taper for this rod so I'll post to thelist when I get it measured, sometime this weekend.Patrick Coffey queried about January issue of BFR, what issue is that?last thing I saw was Vol 1 No. 4.CheersCraig from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Jun 26 14:46:33 1999 Subject: Re: Sharpe/Ritz Taper - BFR Mag You have done better than I have I have not received # 4 nor the 5/6 thatyou mention.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Coffey, Patrick W wrote: the last issue I got was vol 1 no 5/6 Sept/Oct & Nov/Dec 1998. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-237-1460Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ----------From: Craig Naldrett[SMTP:Craig.Naldrett@ibm.net] Sent: Saturday, June 26, 1999 10:17 AM Subject: Sharpe/Ritz Taper - BFR Mag Several people have asked about taper for this rod so I'll post to thelist when I get it measured, sometime this weekend.Patrick Coffey queried about January issue of BFR, what issue is that?last thing I saw was Vol 1 No. 4.CheersCraig from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sat Jun 26 16:25:09 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0500 Subject: Catskills/Pennsylvania & SRG 99 A4CF4477964D63C56896688B" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- A4CF4477964D63C56896688B Is there anyone on the list who is definitely going to beat both the Catskills/Pennsylvania Gathering and the SouthernRodmakers Gathering in Mountain Home, Arkansas this year? If so,I need to ask a very small favor. Please contact me off list at(hboyd@fbcwin.com)Thanks,Harry Boyd --------------A4CF4477964D63C56896688B begin: vcardfn: Harry Boydn: Boyd;Harryorg: First Baptist Churchadr;dom: 507 Highland Street;;;Winnsboro;LA;71295;email;internet: fbcwin@fsbnet.comtitle: Pastortel;work: 318 435-4359tel;fax: 318 435-5488tel;home: 318 435-2278note: http://fbcwin.com/ version: 2.1end: vcard --------------A4CF4477964D63C56896688B-- from hartzell@easystreet.com Sat Jun 26 18:08:17 1999 Subject: Marinaro tapers Does anyone have or know how to get tapers of Vince Marinaro's rods?Preferably one of the later ones. I know that the American Museum ofFly Fishing has some on loan, but the only help they gave me was theaddress of Vince' son . Attempts to reach him were unproductive. His taper theories interest me and I wouldlike to build a rod he dsigned. Ed Hartzell from Craig.Naldrett@ibm.net Sat Jun 26 19:32:36 1999 out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA136470 for;Sun, 27 Jun 1999 00:32:32 GMT Subject: Sharpe/Ritz Taper As requested by several people, this rod was bought as a ferruled blankin mid 80's, presumed to be impregnated, no varnish on rod, some wax.Averaged 3 readings across flats, no obvious large or small side, spreadof three readings from .000 to .005 (wax & operator error I assume)Length assembled 100" (8' 4").No markings on blank, we cast it with a6WF, which is what owner uses.0 N/A2 .0955 .10210 .12215 .13820 .15225 .16530 .18435 .19640 .21245 .22250 .23853.75 Top Of Female Ferrule55 .253 * Extrapolated* Under Ferrule60 .26865 .28170 .28475 .29080 .29585 .30589 .305 Just Before CorkFerrule appears to be brass (stamped "3A"), total length assembled 4",female 2.75, male 2.120 (small gap of .180 when assembled. Since I measured them, guides are at ( from tip):3 3/4, 9 3/8, 15 3/4, 225/8, 30, 39 1/4, 49 1/4 59 3/4, 71 3/4 (stripper).When I tried rod earlier this week I cast 3 Sharpe's from 7' 6" to thisone & two Hardy's in the same length range, all 6 wt's. Just went out totry rod again with 6wf & also 7wf & confirmed I want to build one. Formy taste, it "speaks to me".CheersCraig from jaquin@netsync.net Sat Jun 26 20:56:29 1999 Subject: Wright-McGill Stream & Lake lokked at a W-M "Stream and Lake" the rod looks like it saw little orno water, still has plastic on rod grip. 3 piece one tip estimate tobe 8'6" six weight. has uplocking N/S reel seat with internalthreads(no external threads were visible). original bag and rod casealthough no lid on rod case. orginal price tag of $21.95 Anybody familiar with a W-M stream & lake? Any estimate on value therthan $21.95? =). tia jerry from jswitzer@MNSi.Net Sun Jun 27 06:46:01 1999 Subject: search for archives: setting form boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01BEC070.9E9CD120" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BEC070.9E9CD120 search ] [/fly] [parts] ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BEC070.9E9CD120 search <archive = [parts] ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BEC070.9E9CD120-- from jfreeman@cyberport.com Sun Jun 27 08:58:14 1999 Subject: Rod Aesthetics All, How about some comments on aesthetics? Chome vs bronze? When oneshouldblue? Matching handle to rod? Wraps - guide and ferrule colors - same ordifferent colors - trim wraps? Blonde vs flammed? Just what does make arodlook good, or, maybe better, just what makes one look baaaad? Jim from dpeaston@wzrd.com Sun Jun 27 10:25:24 1999 Subject: Re: Wright-McGill Stream & Lake At 09:51 PM 6/26/1999 -0400, Jerry Quinn wrote:lokked at a W-M "Stream and Lake" the rod looks like it saw little orno water, still has plastic on rod grip. 3 piece one tip estimate tobe 8'6" six weight. has uplocking N/S reel seat with internalthreads(no external threads were visible). original bag and rod casealthough no lid on rod case. orginal price tag of $21.95 Anybody familiar with a W-M stream & lake? Any estimate on value therthan $21.95? =). tia jerry 0n eBay: /27/99 Wright McGill Stream & Lake 9' E (R?) $222.5 Reserve notmet.\The guy probably wanted about $250-300 and from the prices for regularW&McGill Grangers, not an unreasonable amount. For example: 6/24/99WrightMcGill-Challenger (trade rod) E Sold $480I am a be liver in W&McGilltapers. Bill Phillipson knew what he was doing. -Doug from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sun Jun 27 14:33:01 1999 Subject: Splitting mayhem After two rods, splitting of a culm remains, in myopinion, the hardest part of rodmaking. I split my second culm this weekend in preparation fora couple of 2/3 wts I will shortly be planing. I usedJohn Bokstrom's method of marking and splitting at thenodes rather than the more common knife-in-a-visemethod (which I can't do for the life of me.) Splitting the butt end of the 12-foot culm proceededbeautifully. Although the culm was quite small (thussaved for 2/3 wts), I was able to get 22 even strips. Splitting the tip, though, went terribly. As I began asplit at the node, the cane would splinter into manynarrow strips rather than one straight split. It's asif the cane was too dry. This would seem impossiblesince the relative humidity here in Montreal iscurrently around 50%. Another theory is that mysplitter, an oyster shucker, is too blunt forrelatively narrow-walled tip end of a culm. I've split half the culm and have gotten 8 useablestrips from the tip end. I figured I'd put the restaside for a time when things may go more smoothly. Has any one experienced this? Richard from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Sun Jun 27 14:37:32 1999 Subject: Why I love my lathe I purchased a small metal lathe earlier this year. Ifigured I'd use it to mount ferrules, turn grips, andperhaps one day make some ferrules and real seats. Infact, the lathe has turned out to be one of the allaround most useful rodmaking tools. My latest lathe discovery is that by mounting a smallcircular rasp into the chuck, I can file down the backand front of nodes in about two seconds flat. Changingto a small rubber drum, sanding cylinder, I can removethe enamel from a 6 ft strip of cane in about 30seconds. This is much faster than mounting a strip in a vise,filing a node, unlocking the vise, moving to the nextnode, tightening the vise, etc. Still haven't figured out how to press nodes with alathe, though. ;-) Richard from anglport@con2.com Sun Jun 27 15:28:29 1999 Subject: Re: Why I love my lathe Richard,Lift the lathe, place the strip, drop the lathe! Ett Vyola (Et voila), asthe French students at my high school are wont to say ;')! Good luck,ArtBTW, I'm not sure since I've never used an oyster shucker (even foroysters) but when I began at nodes, I used a very stiff, very sharp,carving knife and BASHED the damn thing through the rind. I now use theknife in the vise method, even though I LOVE Bokstrom's soaking methodforthe double-tip-strip, soak 'em-before-straighten-'em parts of the ritual! At 03:36 PM 6/27/99 -0400, Richard Nantel wrote:I purchased a small metal lathe earlier this year. Ifigured I'd use it to mount ferrules, turn grips, andperhaps one day make some ferrules and real seats. Infact, the lathe has turned out to be one of the allaround most useful rodmaking tools. My latest lathe discovery is that by mounting a smallcircular rasp into the chuck, I can file down the backand front of nodes in about two seconds flat. Changingto a small rubber drum, sanding cylinder, I can removethe enamel from a 6 ft strip of cane in about 30seconds. This is much faster than mounting a strip in a vise,filing a node, unlocking the vise, moving to the nextnode, tightening the vise, etc. Still haven't figured out how to press nodes with alathe, though. ;-) Richard from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Sun Jun 27 15:44:48 1999 NAA27180; (5.5.2448.0) Even if you only get one rod out of a culm, it's still the cheapest part ofrod making.What other hobby, AKA obsession, do you find that the basic material onlycost $20. Iuse a bamboo froe and found out that I can direct the splits better withthe thickblade, kinda like trying to split shingles with a froe as opposed to using akitchenknife. I hold the froe in my hand, mark all the nodes as to where I want thesplit to goand twist the froe to get the split to move down the culm and try to hitthe marks atthe nodes. I've found that it is fairly easy, with a thick splittinginstrument, to bendthe bamboo either towards me or away from me to move the split inboardor outboard and Iget 24 strips from a 2" culm. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-237-1460Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from anglport@con2.com Sun Jun 27 15:59:11 1999 Subject: Re: Until last night I used that way precisely, (except without the froe) butthis time I'd have given an eye tooth to have a place to set up a C-clampor two a la Hayashida! I couldn't find a lever long enough OR a place tostand to force the split enough to get it to go MY way instead of its own.I finally saw first hand what he meant by that ( I believe, 2 C-clamp)set-up to enable you to get fulcrums to EXERT the sideways pressure yousometimes need.Next time.......Art At 01:44 PM 6/27/99 -0700, Coffey, Patrick W wrote:Even if you only get one rod out of a culm, it's still the cheapest partof rod making. What other hobby, AKA obsession, do you find that the basicmaterial only cost $20. I use a bamboo froe and found out that I can directthe splits better with the thick blade, kinda like trying to split shingleswith a froe as opposed to using a kitchen knife. I hold the froe in myhand, mark all the nodes as to where I want the split to go and twist thefroe to get the split to move down the culm and try to hit the marks at thenodes. I've found that it is fairly easy, with a thick splittinginstrument, to bend the bamboo either towards me or away from me tomovethe split inboard or outboard and I get 24 strips from a 2" culm. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-237-1460Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sun Jun 27 16:06:41 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0500 Subject: Re: U-bond Friends, Ray Gould dropped me the note below. Seems like I remember someof youlooking for this stuff. Is this the same stuff that some of you say is "thebest stuff ever for gluing ferrules?" Harry Ray Gould wrote: Hi Harry,We haven't communicated in as much as I signed off the rodmakers emailthing for the summer since I'm gone fishing much of the time. However Idorecollect that you are helping out in the Southern Rod Makers Gathering inOctober. I wonder if you might like to inform the group as to a communiqueI received from Ron Cornell of Easy Poxy indicating that they now have the"U-Bond" adhesive back on the market. It costs $3.75 per tube and emailorders may be sent to easypoxy@compuserve.com attention Shannon. Harry first let me say most plainly that I have no interest financial orotherwise in Easypoxy. But this U-bond adhesive is simply the best I'veever used in rod building. It is excellent for gluing ferrules to cane, forgluing tip tops to cane, for gluing reel seats to cane and for gluingassembled cork grips to cane. This adhesive has epoxy like strength andhasthe unusual advantageous feature of expanding while it dries. I highlyrecommend it. Ray Gould P.S. And now back to the pusuit of chasing the wily Kamloops trout! from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sun Jun 27 16:24:25 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Sun, 27 Jun 1999 16:24:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Splitting mayhem Richard,I just got a nice package from John Bokstrom inpreparation for the Southern Rodmakers Gathering. One thing hestrongly suggests is using the knife in vise technique. John saysit is important to use a thin, strong knife. Most kitchens havelittle paring knives with 2"-3" blades. John suggests using thiskind of knife in the vise, upside down, with only about 1" ofblade and the handle outside the vise. I use a tiny meat cleavershaped knife originally designed for slicing cheese. It's thin,and plenty stiff.Unless I misread his communique, John doesn't suggest startingsplits at the nodes, but at the end of a piece of bamboo alreadycut to strip length, plus node staggering allowance. Try thislink:http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/FNeunemann/BambooFRMain.html John's splitting method is detailed under "Articles"Try starting from the ends, rather than the nodes. Usesome sort of knife you can tap with a plastic or wooden mallet.I've even used a box knife (Razor knife) to start splits with goodresults. Lean the culm against something sturdy while you tap theknife so that both hands will be free. One hand on the knife, theother on the mallet. Then try either Wayne's splitting method, orthe knife in vise method. It takes a sacrificial culm or two, butyou'll get it. Harry Richard Nantel wrote: After two rods, splitting of a culm remains, in myopinion, the hardest part of rodmaking. I split my second culm this weekend in preparation fora couple of 2/3 wts I will shortly be planing. I usedJohn Bokstrom's method of marking and splitting at thenodes rather than the more common knife-in-a-visemethod (which I can't do for the life of me.) Splitting the butt end of the 12-foot culm proceededbeautifully. Although the culm was quite small (thussaved for 2/3 wts), I was able to get 22 even strips. Splitting the tip, though, went terribly. As I began asplit at the node, the cane would splinter into manynarrow strips rather than one straight split. It's asif the cane was too dry. This would seem impossiblesince the relative humidity here in Montreal iscurrently around 50%. Another theory is that mysplitter, an oyster shucker, is too blunt forrelatively narrow-walled tip end of a culm. I've split half the culm and have gotten 8 useablestrips from the tip end. I figured I'd put the restaside for a time when things may go more smoothly. Has any one experienced this? Richard from rmoon@ida.net Sun Jun 27 16:54:10 1999 0000 Subject: Re: U-bond Thanks Ray You are correct this is the best ferrule cement I have ever used SorryI have not tried it elsewhere, but upon your recommendation I certainlywill. Ralph from channer@hubwest.com Sun Jun 27 17:27:02 1999 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A593C5014A; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 16:28:35 MST Subject: Re: Rod Aesthetics At 07:43 AM 6/27/99 -0600, Jim Freeman wrote:All, How about some comments on aesthetics? Chome vs bronze? When oneshouldblue? Matching handle to rod? Wraps - guide and ferrule colors - same ordifferent colors - trim wraps? Blonde vs flammed? Just what does makea rodlook good, or, maybe better, just what makes one look baaaad? Jim Jim;That's one of the neat things about rodbuilding, anything you want goes,there aren't any standards(other than good workmanship) for what looksgood. If you like it, thats all that counts. Besides, if you don't like theway it looks when you're done, strip it down and try something else. Aboutthe only things you will be stuck with is the taper of blank and the woodfiller in the reel seat.John from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Jun 27 17:44:43 1999 Sun, 27 Jun 1999 17:45:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Splitting mayhem I made a mess of my first culm so I thought. I still gottwo butts and four tips from it. On the second Culm I dida lot better due to a tip from a list member in Maine. Hesaid, bend the FAT side away from the split. It workedlike a charm. The second culm gave me three butts and fourtips. This works great when you have someone to helpbending the FAT side. I was in the shop a while ago andhad three extra strips that were less than 1/2" wide. Ithought if I could split them I would have the six stripsneeded for another butt. I gave it a try. Using a fixedupright post in my shop I was able to put the tip of thesplit against it and bend either strip in the directionthat I wanted it to go. What a surprise to me, I got sixequal strips. I know this is not earth shattering but to abeginner it is great. Some day I hope to be as good asRick, I saw him breeze through a culm. Hope this will helpanother beginner .I am not really cheap, I hate to waste anything andespecially when it is not in my reach such as Bamboo. Thefirst six rods are gifts so I save where I can. I am surelater in making rods I will feel like most, one culm onerod.Now the big thing for