This seems to be a very good subject to kick around. Anyone else haveanyother thoughts? Anything I'm missing? A better way to do? Allcommentswelcome!! George Bourke-----Original Message-----From: Richard Nantel ; RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Thursday, July 08, 1999 7:34 PMSubject: RE: Impregnating information. Continuing on the subject of impregnation, what wouldbe a good way to test the success of impregnationexperiments? I'd rather not wait 20 years to see howsuccessfully moisture resistant a rod I've impregnatedis. Richard George, Boiling sounds rather extreme. When you boil water it passes a "phasetransition" and becomes rather different that your garden variety highhumidity. When water boils the resultant steam consists of watermoleculeswhich have enough energy (much more energy than the same amount ofliquid,just below boling temp.) that they will remain in the vapor phase foreverif maintained at the boiling temp. Humid conditions result from anequilibrium between water vapor at ambient temp and liquid at the sametemp. What you will probably be observing in the boiling test are theeffects of 212 degree temp.( high energy water molecules) and 100%humidity. It seems unreasonable to me to back-extrapolate thoseconditionsto more realistic ones for which impregnation is being developed. I wouldsuggest putting the components in a water vapor saturated container at90-100 degrees or soaking the components in 90-100 degree water asmorerealistic. JMHO Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from destinycon@mindspring.com Fri Jul 9 08:08:42 1999 Subject: Re: Impregnating information. At 06:44 PM 7/8/99 -0500, Onis Cogburn wrote:It works great for bamboo but I would like to put avacuum on it first for reel seats. The reason is this: Using only thecompressor, the air in the wood and bamboo is squeezed to a very smallvolume. However when you release the pressure, the trapped air expandspushing the excess solution out of the material. This is great for bamboosince it minimized weight but for the reel seats I would like to retainmore of the solution in the wood; hence the pretreatment with thevacuum. This brings up a few questions since putting something in a vacuum willboil the moisture out. 1. If one were to put the bamboo in the tube, heatit to about 100*, then hook up a deep vacuum pump and take it to 50 to100microns until it holds this pressure would this achieve the same resultsasa "high" (350*) heat treatment? 2. Does one have to "cook" the oils out,along with the moisture, or would a deep vacuum boil this oil off also? 3.Does the "high" heat fracture the bamboo cell walls thus releasing the oilsand moisture? 4. Would this method work before finishing to remove anymoisture that has rentered? 5. Or lastly, would this work to cure aglued- up section by removing the moisture in the glue?Regaqrds,Gary H. from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Fri Jul 9 08:45:48 1999 mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net(InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP Subject: Re: Impregnating information. Old Paul Young catalogs refer to "impregnating" rods in bakelite cut withzylol....they also state that their gluing process is so good that soakingin water, including boiling water, hammer blows etc. generally cause thecane to fail before the glue joint fails.... At 08:21 AM 7/9/99 -0400, Douglas P. Easton wrote: George, Boiling sounds rather extreme. When you boil water it passes a "phasetransition" and becomes rather different that your garden variety highhumidity. When water boils the resultant steam consists of watermoleculeswhich have enough energy (much more energy than the same amount ofliquid,just below boling temp.) that they will remain in the vapor phase foreverif maintained at the boiling temp. Humid conditions result from anequilibrium between water vapor at ambient temp and liquid at the sametemp. What you will probably be observing in the boiling test are theeffects of 212 degree temp.( high energy water molecules) and 100%humidity. It seems unreasonable to me to back-extrapolate thoseconditionsto more realistic ones for which impregnation is being developed. Iwouldsuggest putting the components in a water vapor saturated container at90-100 degrees or soaking the components in 90-100 degree water asmorerealistic. JMHO Doug EastonTonawanda, NY Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from watson@cape-consult.co.uk Fri Jul 9 09:04:57 1999 Fri, 9 Jul 1999 15:04:44 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: Greenheart Salmon rod Farlow's are now Farlow's of Pall Mall, London where they have a shop.You could try contacting them for the history of the rod - they are usuallyhelpful. Farlow's number is +44 171 839 2423.The chocolate brown crackle finish sounds like old copal varnish whichwillstart to come away once it has crazed. I've just got a Hardy with the samefinish which when stripped is beautiful underneath.I don't know if John Cooper has re-subscribed - I'll forward this to himanyway as he may have some additional information.Tim.- ----Original Message----- Subject: Greenheart Salmon rod A fellow stopped by the house a moment ago to show me a 16' greenheartsalmon rod, 3 pc. with two tips.The decal states Farlow & Co., Ltd. followed by the word Holdfast. The rodis in poor shape, but he is only interested in using it as a wall hanger inhis cabin. He purchased it in England recently, and in trying to get itback to the States via air, the rod suffered some damage. A missing tiptopis the primary loss, and some stripping guides also pulled loose. Thewrapsunder the finish are actually blue, but the chocolate brown finish on therod covers the wraps, making them brown as well. the brown finishappearsto be original, is heavily "cracked", and the wood grain can barely be seenunder the finish.Anyone have any info on this rod? I have been told that the Farlow Co. isnow owned by Hardy, but the businesses operate separately? Any infowouldbe much appreciated. TIA.Jerry Snider from GROMBACHERA@phibred.com Fri Jul 9 09:43:11 1999 0500 smap (V4.2) Subject: RE: Greenheart Salmon rod Jerry, Farlows is located in Pall Mall in London. Not to far from Hardys, WilliamEvans' gunshop (double rifle makers), great cigar shops, the neatest liquorstore of all time (a wine dealer since like 1700), St. James Square, andPiccadilly Square. I have been to Farlows several times. The service is excellent, equal tothe best that I have ever had at any flyshop in the US or Canada. They sell rods under their own label. I think a lot of their rods were made greenhearts and graphites). They are also one of the cheapest sources of wheatley flyboxes that Iknowof to date. They sell them under their Farlows brand, same wheatleyboxes,just another logo added to them. I have ordered from them, and never had a problem getting any part of anorder to me in Alberta. Great folks there. Hardys bought Farlows just recently. I have heard that Farlows willcontinue to run like it has been. Hardys and Farlows a good bunch. Alberta Al -----Original Message----- Subject: Greenheart Salmon rod A fellow stopped by the house a moment ago to show me a 16' greenheartsalmon rod, 3 pc. with two tips.The decal states Farlow & Co., Ltd. followed by the word Holdfast. The rodis in poor shape, but he is only interested in using it as a wall hanger inhis cabin. He purchased it in England recently, and in trying to get itback to the States via air, the rod suffered some damage. A missing tiptopis the primary loss, and some stripping guides also pulled loose. Thewrapsunder the finish are actually blue, but the chocolate brown finish on therod covers the wraps, making them brown as well. the brown finishappearsto be original, is heavily "cracked", and the wood grain can barely be seenunder the finish.Anyone have any info on this rod? I have been told that the Farlow Co. isnow owned by Hardy, but the businesses operate separately? Any infowouldbe much appreciated. TIA.Jerry Snider from gwbarnes@gwi.net Fri Jul 9 14:24:30 1999 Subject: Friend needs parts Anyone have any thoughts on where parts for a Wright & McGill reel mightbe found? George from santos@esinet.net Fri Jul 9 14:33:26 1999 Subject: unsubscribe for summer Not sure how I unsubscribe for a few weeks. Is this all I need to do?? Carlos Santos from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Jul 9 15:03:03 1999 RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Question Irish,it seem that most of the list are willing to accept the name "Payne" beingtagged onto a new rod company.What would the list think if the name "Garrison" was put onto acontemporary rod?All of us list members with a Garrison book and a lathe would have notrouble inin producing an exact replica with all the rather crude ( by todaysstandards)fittings.The "new" Garrisons would be far more authentic than the "new" Paynesbecause wewould be working to Garrison's very own detailed building instructionswhich Iam sure Payne did not leave behind.Is there a difference between a fake Garrison and a modern Payne?Terry irish-george wrote: I believe it is Dave Holloman (sp?). One rodbroker's catalog I received inthe last year indicated that they had sent a Payne rod back to DaveHollomanat Payne for refinishing. I wonder if that means he does good work or ifthat was just in there for marketing purposes??? George -----Original Message-----From: Michael Mèller Cc: anglport@con2.com ;RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Thursday, July 08, 1999 1:24 PMSubject: Re: Question Hi Terry and allI forgot the name of this rodmaker and he didn't give me his busimesscard but they definitivly didn't belong to REC.I guess he is about fortyof age. TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: Michael,who are the Payne rodmakers? from what I remember the Payne name and equipment was picked upbyJohnson Wax who yearslater sold it to an employee who started REC.REC tried to get the Payne equipment up and running but could notproducetips (familiar? YES!! :) I drove down to Vermont a couple of years ago to purchase some of thePayne bamboo becausemy usual supplier at the time could not deliver. I was shown all thePayneequipment and ahalf finished rod shop with with a large window where visitors couldpeerin at a rodmakerat work. They told me they were looking for a rodmaker several timesandhow they plan toproduce Payne rods again. It sounded very much like a hint but I am notsure. I certainlywas not going to touch that. How can you build Payne rods if you are notPayne.It was very interesting to see the type of machinery that Payne usedand from that it waseasy to see that it was his genius that was was the real asset and nottheworn out junkthat was used.I cannot see how you can make Payne rods by picking up his equipmentlongafter he isdead. Rather like calling yourself Picasso and knocking out similarstyled work.Terry completely agreed but nevertheless they named themselves "Payne RodCo." As I asked them > what it means: handmade, the fellow mentionedthe splitting of a culm and straightening the splines. But to tell thetruth: these rods looked tidy.To bad they didn't let you cast themat the casting pool like other companies. Michael Michael Mèller wrote: Hi ArtI visited EFTTEX at Amsterdam (june18-20th) and talked about suchquestions to thepayne rodmakers and they told me:1.there are different tapers on the same models(they called it custom made!!)2. Rods of the same model # have an internal swelled butt and/oran external as well (same reason)I wouldnt dare to give different rods with a deviating design thesamename or model #but I'm not as famous as they are :)tight linesMichael Art Port wrote: All (and Dennis in particular)A while back Dennis posted a Payne 102 taper. I just wanted toput it intoan Excel program I have and noticed that it has a swell at 8" fromthebutt. Was it common for a rod to have a swell INTERNAL to thehandle,ordid this model have an extreeeemely short handle, or...? I thoughttheswells always fell just before the cork began. (I am reminded ofsomethingabout rain in Spain.....) Thanks for any info anyone can provide onthis.Art from MICK@welfen-netz.com Fri Jul 9 15:04:11 1999 [127.0.0.1] with SMTP(MDaemon.v2.7.SP5.R) for ; Fri, 09 Jul 199922:03:33 +0200 Subject: Re: Greenheart Salmon rod I'm in contact with Sharpes of Aberdeen and as they told me they are outof thebamboo rod business. One of the sales manager told me 32 man hours makea rod toexpensive to sell. A matter of turnover and and economics. I don't thinkthatHardy bought Farlows because Hardy has been bought by a "Sidney&SheldonGroup"several years ago.Michael irish-george wrote: I don't know about a Hardy connection. Farlow owns Sharpe. Also, thereisa flyshop in Carmel by the Sea, California, that sells greenheart rods and(I believe) blanks. Sorry I don't remember their name (I stumbled uponthemon the Internet about a year ago). George -----Original Message-----From: Jerry Snider Date: Thursday, July 08, 1999 7:08 PMSubject: Greenheart Salmon rod A fellow stopped by the house a moment ago to show me a 16' greenheartsalmon rod, 3 pc. with two tips.The decal states Farlow & Co., Ltd. followed by the word Holdfast. Therodis in poor shape, but he is only interested in using it as a wall hanger inhis cabin. He purchased it in England recently, and in trying to get itback to the States via air, the rod suffered some damage. A missing tiptopis the primary loss, and some stripping guides also pulled loose. Thewrapsunder the finish are actually blue, but the chocolate brown finish on therod covers the wraps, making them brown as well. the brown finishappearsto be original, is heavily "cracked", and the wood grain can barely beseenunder the finish.Anyone have any info on this rod? I have been told that the Farlow Co.isnow owned by Hardy, but the businesses operate separately? Any infowouldbe much appreciated. TIA.Jerry Snider from MICK@welfen-netz.com Fri Jul 9 15:08:46 1999 [127.0.0.1] with SMTP(MDaemon.v2.7.SP5.R) for ; Fri, 09 Jul1999 22:08:17 +0200 RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Question TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: Irish,it seem that most of the list are willing to accept the name "Payne"beingtagged onto a new rod company.What would the list think if the name "Garrison" was put onto acontemporary rod?All of us list members with a Garrison book and a lathe would have notrouble inin producing an exact replica with all the rather crude ( by todaysstandards)fittings.The "new" Garrisons would be far more authentic than the "new" Paynesbecause wewould be working to Garrison's very own detailed building instructionswhich Iam sure Payne did not leave behind.Is there a difference between a fake Garrison and a modern Payne?Terry don't think there is. but would you pay 2 grand for a D.Holloman? :)Michael from jackdale@uswest.net Fri Jul 9 15:34:40 1999 (206.196.156.235) anglport@con2.com, RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Question No, not yet anyways, but last I heard a fair number of people werespending upwards oftwo thousand dollars for an R.L. Winston rod and I don't believe eitherRobert Wintheror Lew Stoner are still making them. Just a thought. Michael Mèller wrote: TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: Irish,it seem that most of the list are willing to accept the name "Payne"beingtagged onto a new rod company.What would the list think if the name "Garrison" was put onto acontemporary rod?All of us list members with a Garrison book and a lathe would have notrouble inin producing an exact replica with all the rather crude ( by todaysstandards)fittings.The "new" Garrisons would be far more authentic than the "new" Paynesbecause wewould be working to Garrison's very own detailed building instructionswhich Iam sure Payne did not leave behind.Is there a difference between a fake Garrison and a modern Payne?Terry don't think there is. but would you pay 2 grand for a D.Holloman?:)Michael from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Jul 9 15:52:32 1999 Subject: Re: Impregnating information. In a message dated 7/9/99 6:17:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time, destinycon@mindspring.com writes: Gary,I am also a Volvo Tech. and work for our local Volvodealer. I do a lot of air conditioning repair work. We put thesystem under a vacuum down to 30 hg on our scale. This will "boil" the moisture out of the system, but does not removeany of the oil from the system. Dave LeClair from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Fri Jul 9 16:30:51 1999 Subject: Re: Impregnating information. Gary, I'm a Project Engineer for a major manufacturer of airconditioning equipment. We evacuate our units to 80 Microns on ourproduction lines. The compressors on these units are already chargedwith oil. The evacuation process does not cause the oil to boil out.Thus, it would not boil any of the oil out of the Bamboo. I believethat the heating is necessary to temper the Bamboo. I don't think thatBamboo could be tempered by the evacuation process. However this does give me something to think about this weekend. Maybean experiment is due here. Baked Bamboo vs. Evacuated Bamboo. Somesteel pipe and some fittings and my vacuum pump vs. the oven. Oops can't do it this weekend SWMBO has other plans for me. Later forthis experiment. Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net DE>At 06:44 PM 7/8/99 -0500, Onis Cogburn wrote:DE>It works great for bamboo but I would like to put aDE>>vacuum on it first for reel seats. The reason is this: Using only theDE>>compressor, the air in the wood and bamboo is squeezed to a verysmallDE>>volume. However when you release the pressure, the trapped airexpandsDE>>pushing the excess solution out of the material. This is great forbambooDE>>since it minimized weight but for the reel seats I would like to retainDE>>more of the solution in the wood; hence the pretreatment with theDE>vacuum. DE>This brings up a few questions since putting something in a vacuumwillDE>boil the moisture out. 1. If one were to put the bamboo in the tube,heatDE>it to about 100*, then hook up a deep vacuum pump and take it to 50 to100DE>microns until it holds this pressure would this achieve the sameresults asDE>a "high" (350*) heat treatment? 2. Does one have to "cook" the oils out,DE>along with the moisture, or would a deep vacuum boil this oil off also? 3.DE>Does the "high" heat fracture the bamboo cell walls thus releasing theoilsDE>and moisture? 4. Would this method work before finishing to removeanyDE>moisture that has rentered? 5. Or lastly, would this work to cure aDE>glued-up section by removing the moisture in the glue?DE>Regaqrds,DE>Gary H. DE> from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Fri Jul 9 17:03:05 1999 post.interalpha.net(8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id XAA29047 for ;Fri, 9 Jul 199923:05:54 +0100 Subject: Re: Greenheart Salmon rod Yes Tim, I'm hooked up, but just taking in the sights and sounds of thelist, rather than spending too much time. In fact, I've answered this question of Jerry's direct - off list, althoughI told him there was no connection between Hardy's and Farlows. It seemsthat they have indeed bought Farlows. Is Hardy's still American owned?Don'tknow. I think they'd be more helpful if they were. I find they don't give atinker's cuss for anyone who isn't spending big money. As for answeringquestions ............. You should have come fishing this evening, as I suggested. I'll tell youmore when I see you. Fancy missing such an evening, just for a pre- arrangedbarbecue. Bad move...... John ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Greenheart Salmon rod Farlow's are now Farlow's of Pall Mall, London where they have a shop.You could try contacting them for the history of the rod - they areusuallyhelpful. Farlow's number is +44 171 839 2423.The chocolate brown crackle finish sounds like old copal varnish whichwillstart to come away once it has crazed. I've just got a Hardy with thesamefinish which when stripped is beautiful underneath.I don't know if John Cooper has re-subscribed - I'll forward this to himanyway as he may have some additional information.Tim.-----Original Message-----From: Jerry Snider Date: 09 July 1999 03:08Subject: Greenheart Salmon rod A fellow stopped by the house a moment ago to show me a 16' greenheartsalmon rod, 3 pc. with two tips.The decal states Farlow & Co., Ltd. followed by the word Holdfast. Therodis in poor shape, but he is only interested in using it as a wall hangerinhis cabin. He purchased it in England recently, and in trying to get itback to the States via air, the rod suffered some damage. A missing tiptopis the primary loss, and some stripping guides also pulled loose. Thewrapsunder the finish are actually blue, but the chocolate brown finish on therod covers the wraps, making them brown as well. the brown finishappearsto be original, is heavily "cracked", and the wood grain can barely beseenunder the finish.Anyone have any info on this rod? I have been told that the Farlow Co.isnow owned by Hardy, but the businesses operate separately? Any infowouldbe much appreciated. TIA.Jerry Snider from sniderja@email.uc.edu Fri Jul 9 17:22:47 1999 Subject: Farlows Greenheart Salmon Rod Thanks a real bunch to all of you who responded, on line and off line, soquickly and so thoroughly re the Farlow Greenheart Salmon Rod. Exactlytheinformation I needed.J. Snider from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Jul 9 17:44:31 1999 Subject: Beveller for sale I am selling my beveller, as I don't build that many rods.I am more into the components than the rods. If any oneis interested in this, I built it about a year ago, using a brandnew Delta 6in. Variable Speed Bench Jointer. It has twomilling machine 60* cutters, which can be reversed whenthey get dull, giving you a new set of cutters. It is adjustable although I think with a little bit of ingenuity, it could be madeto taper the splines, also. I use it to do the rough beveling, to get the splinesdown to a closer size to the final dimension. If anyone is interested, contact me off list for more info and pictures. Thanks, Dave LeClair from fiveside@net-gate.com Fri Jul 9 19:20:07 1999 ns1.net-gate.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA19125 for; Subject: Abbreviations To the List,At the risk of more embarrassment like the time I asked about Walmart,acouple of interesting references showed up recently which I couldn't ID.They were Russ Gooding's Site and VFS Classifieds. Old timers like meneedall the help we can get to keep up. Thanks. Bill from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Fri Jul 9 20:03:36 1999 with ESMTP id ;Sat, 10 Jul 1999 01:03:04 +0000 Subject: Re: Abbreviations Bill, Don't feel embarrassed! I work at a major (at least THEY think so)telecommunications company (they own my ISP, sorry, internet serviceprovider ) whose name begins with the letter A and has a squiggly "&"thingy in between the "Ts", mentioning no names, of course... Anyhoo,they also own the land of acronyms! Whenever I get into meetings withthe muckity mucks, they always get p*ssed off at me because I constantlyask them to expand the acronyms that they are so fond of using. -End of rave- Have a nice weekend. Dennis Bill Fink wrote: To the List,At the risk of more embarrassment like the time I asked aboutWalmart, acouple of interesting references showed up recently which I couldn't ID.They were Russ Gooding's Site and VFS Classifieds. Old timers like meneedall the help we can get to keep up. Thanks. Bill from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Fri Jul 9 20:40:28 1999 Subject: Re Qeustion And also Thomas&Thomas they are fetching over two thousand dollars and from what I understand they sub there work out to unknown makers and thewait is over two years long go figure! from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri Jul 9 23:17:57 1999 (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP +0000 , ,, Subject: Re: Impregnating information. Depends on the goal here. I think it is to verify that the rod hasn'tchanged, not whether it is better or worse than a varnished one...I'd forgetabout the varnished rod (really no reason to screw up a varnished rod). George -----Original Message----- ; richard.nantel@videotron.ca; leroyt@involved.com;k5vkq@ix.netcom.com ;RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Impregnating information. Hey, guys and gals, don't forget to use a non-impregnated control in yourexperiment.J. Snider.At 06:01 AM 7/9/99 -0500, Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote:George, Richard, Onis, All,George has the right idea. I think that I would weight it first on a veryaccurate scale and then weight it several more times during the testingprocess to see if it gained any moisture. If it didn't gain any weight then the impregnation process was keepingthemoisture out. Suspending weights off the tip and measuring the deflection before andafterthe various steps of the testing would be another way of finding theeffectsof the impregnation process. Any other ideas? Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net ----- Original Message -----From: irish-george ; Sent: Thursday, July 08, 1999 11:52 PMSubject: Re: Impregnating information. Gee, a H.A.L.T. (highly accelerated life test) procedure for a bamboorod!!I'd think a very good way to give it as much (or more) stress than itwouldget in 10 years would be to boil it in water for an hour or two, take itfishing for a weekend, then boil it again for an hour or two. You getheat,moisture, mechanical stress, followed by more heat and moisture. Ithinkitwould be important to boil, cast, reboil to verify that the heat andmoisture didn't make it susceptible to stress fractures, then reboil toverify that the casting didn't open up minicule seam fractures thatwouldallow moisture and heat to damage the rod. This seems to be a very good subject to kick around. Anyone else haveanyother thoughts? Anything I'm missing? A better way to do? Allcommentswelcome!! George Bourke-----Original Message-----From: Richard Nantel ; RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Thursday, July 08, 1999 7:34 PMSubject: RE: Impregnating information. Continuing on the subject of impregnation, what wouldbe a good way to test the success of impregnationexperiments? I'd rather not wait 20 years to see howsuccessfully moisture resistant a rod I've impregnatedis. Richard from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri Jul 9 23:19:24 1999 (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP +0000 , , Subject: Re: Impregnating information. Good idea, but may need a very accurate scale. (Of course, I HAVE seenMettler Analytic Balances for sale on eBay!) George -----Original Message----- richard.nantel@videotron.ca ;leroyt@involved.com ; k5vkq@ix.netcom.com; RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Impregnating information. George, Richard, Onis, All,George has the right idea. I think that I would weight it first on a veryaccurate scale and then weight it several more times during the testingprocess to see if it gained any moisture. If it didn't gain any weight then the impregnation process was keepingthemoisture out. Suspending weights off the tip and measuring the deflection before andafterthe various steps of the testing would be another way of finding theeffectsof the impregnation process. Any other ideas? Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net ----- Original Message -----From: irish-george ; Sent: Thursday, July 08, 1999 11:52 PMSubject: Re: Impregnating information. Gee, a H.A.L.T. (highly accelerated life test) procedure for a bamboorod!!I'd think a very good way to give it as much (or more) stress than itwouldget in 10 years would be to boil it in water for an hour or two, take itfishing for a weekend, then boil it again for an hour or two. You getheat,moisture, mechanical stress, followed by more heat and moisture. Ithinkitwould be important to boil, cast, reboil to verify that the heat andmoisture didn't make it susceptible to stress fractures, then reboil toverify that the casting didn't open up minicule seam fractures thatwouldallow moisture and heat to damage the rod. This seems to be a very good subject to kick around. Anyone else haveanyother thoughts? Anything I'm missing? A better way to do? Allcommentswelcome!! George Bourke-----Original Message-----From: Richard Nantel ; RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Thursday, July 08, 1999 7:34 PMSubject: RE: Impregnating information. Continuing on the subject of impregnation, what wouldbe a good way to test the success of impregnationexperiments? I'd rather not wait 20 years to see howsuccessfully moisture resistant a rod I've impregnatedis. Richard from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri Jul 9 23:24:20 1999 (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP +0000 , ,"Douglas P. Easton" Subject: Re: Impregnating information. Two thoughts:1) Don't you want the test to be a bit more extreme than real- lifeconditions?2) And if you stick a slightly damp rod back in its case, toss it in thecar, head home, stop for an hour to eat...might the moisture not boil?Agreed that is NOT the way to treat a bamboo rod...but don't you want toprotect against what is probably a common occurrence? George -----Original Message----- richard.nantel@videotron.ca ;leroyt@involved.com ; k5vkq@ix.netcom.com; RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Impregnating information. At 09:52 PM 7/8/1999 -0700, irish-george wrote:Gee, a H.A.L.T. (highly accelerated life test) procedure for a bamboorod!!I'd think a very good way to give it as much (or more) stress than itwouldget in 10 years would be to boil it in water for an hour or two, take itfishing for a weekend, then boil it again for an hour or two. You getheat,moisture, mechanical stress, followed by more heat and moisture. Ithinkitwould be important to boil, cast, reboil to verify that the heat andmoisture didn't make it susceptible to stress fractures, then reboil toverify that the casting didn't open up minicule seam fractures thatwouldallow moisture and heat to damage the rod. This seems to be a very good subject to kick around. Anyone else haveanyother thoughts? Anything I'm missing? A better way to do? Allcommentswelcome!! George Bourke-----Original Message-----From: Richard Nantel ; RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Thursday, July 08, 1999 7:34 PMSubject: RE: Impregnating information. Continuing on the subject of impregnation, what wouldbe a good way to test the success of impregnationexperiments? I'd rather not wait 20 years to see howsuccessfully moisture resistant a rod I've impregnatedis. Richard George, Boiling sounds rather extreme. When you boil water it passes a "phasetransition" and becomes rather different that your garden variety highhumidity. When water boils the resultant steam consists of watermoleculeswhich have enough energy (much more energy than the same amount ofliquid,just below boling temp.) that they will remain in the vapor phase foreverif maintained at the boiling temp. Humid conditions result from anequilibrium between water vapor at ambient temp and liquid at the sametemp. What you will probably be observing in the boiling test are theeffects of 212 degree temp.( high energy water molecules) and 100%humidity. It seems unreasonable to me to back-extrapolate thoseconditionsto more realistic ones for which impregnation is being developed. Iwouldsuggest putting the components in a water vapor saturated container at90-100 degrees or soaking the components in 90-100 degree water asmorerealistic. JMHO Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri Jul 9 23:27:36 1999 (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Impregnating information. Makes sense...most impregnation processes refer to using phenolics likebakelite which is a thermoplastic and relatively unaffected by lowtemperatures (such as boiling). George -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Impregnating information. Old Paul Young catalogs refer to "impregnating" rods in bakelite cut withzylol....they also state that their gluing process is so good that soakingin water, including boiling water, hammer blows etc. generally cause thecane to fail before the glue joint fails.... At 08:21 AM 7/9/99 -0400, Douglas P. Easton wrote: George, Boiling sounds rather extreme. When you boil water it passes a "phasetransition" and becomes rather different that your garden variety highhumidity. When water boils the resultant steam consists of watermoleculeswhich have enough energy (much more energy than the same amount ofliquid,just below boling temp.) that they will remain in the vapor phaseforeverif maintained at the boiling temp. Humid conditions result from anequilibrium between water vapor at ambient temp and liquid at the sametemp. What you will probably be observing in the boiling test are theeffects of 212 degree temp.( high energy water molecules) and 100%humidity. It seems unreasonable to me to back-extrapolate thoseconditionsto more realistic ones for which impregnation is being developed. Iwouldsuggest putting the components in a water vapor saturated container at90-100 degrees or soaking the components in 90-100 degree water asmorerealistic. JMHO Doug EastonTonawanda, NY Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri Jul 9 23:29:39 1999 (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Greenheart Salmon rod Farlow's DOES have a website...wish I had it handy (but I'm getting ready togo on a two week vacation in the morning). George -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Greenheart Salmon rod Jerry, Farlows is located in Pall Mall in London. Not to far from Hardys, WilliamEvans' gunshop (double rifle makers), great cigar shops, the neatestliquorstore of all time (a wine dealer since like 1700), St. James Square, andPiccadilly Square. I have been to Farlows several times. The service is excellent, equal tothe best that I have ever had at any flyshop in the US or Canada. They sell rods under their own label. I think a lot of their rods weremade greenhearts and graphites). They are also one of the cheapest sources of wheatley flyboxes that Iknowof to date. They sell them under their Farlows brand, same wheatleyboxes,just another logo added to them. I have ordered from them, and never had a problem getting any part of anorder to me in Alberta. Great folks there. Hardys bought Farlows just recently. I have heard that Farlows willcontinue to run like it has been. Hardys and Farlows a good bunch. Alberta Al -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, July 08, 1999 8:03 PM Subject: Greenheart Salmon rod A fellow stopped by the house a moment ago to show me a 16' greenheartsalmon rod, 3 pc. with two tips.The decal states Farlow & Co., Ltd. followed by the word Holdfast. The rodis in poor shape, but he is only interested in using it as a wall hanger inhis cabin. He purchased it in England recently, and in trying to get itback to the States via air, the rod suffered some damage. A missing tiptopis the primary loss, and some stripping guides also pulled loose. Thewrapsunder the finish are actually blue, but the chocolate brown finish on therod covers the wraps, making them brown as well. the brown finishappearsto be original, is heavily "cracked", and the wood grain can barely be seenunder the finish.Anyone have any info on this rod? I have been told that the Farlow Co. isnow owned by Hardy, but the businesses operate separately? Any infowouldbe much appreciated. TIA.Jerry Snider from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri Jul 9 23:39:20 1999 (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Question I agree wholeheartedly on this. I AM very curious, however, as to howsomepeople (like Dave LeClair who, to the best of my knowledge, never workedforor owned Payne) came to know Payne's blackening formula. Was itpublishedsomewhere? I spoke to Hal Bacon last year (who DID own Payne) and hetoldme that he had the formula "somewhere" but said he actually usessomethingelse (I forget for sure, think he said he uses fixer). George PS--If anyone replies to this, please e-mail me directly as I'll beunsubscribing for a vacation. -----Original Message----- ; RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Question Irish,it seem that most of the list are willing to accept the name "Payne" beingtagged onto a new rod company.What would the list think if the name "Garrison" was put onto acontemporaryrod?All of us list members with a Garrison book and a lathe would have notrouble inin producing an exact replica with all the rather crude ( by todaysstandards)fittings.The "new" Garrisons would be far more authentic than the "new" Paynesbecause wewould be working to Garrison's very own detailed building instructionswhichIam sure Payne did not leave behind.Is there a difference between a fake Garrison and a modern Payne?Terry irish-george wrote: I believe it is Dave Holloman (sp?). One rodbroker's catalog I receivedinthe last year indicated that they had sent a Payne rod back to DaveHollomanat Payne for refinishing. I wonder if that means he does good work or ifthat was just in there for marketing purposes??? George -----Original Message-----From: Michael Mèller Cc: anglport@con2.com ;RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Thursday, July 08, 1999 1:24 PMSubject: Re: Question Hi Terry and allI forgot the name of this rodmaker and he didn't give me his busimesscard but they definitivly didn't belong to REC.I guess he is about fortyof age. TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: Michael,who are the Payne rodmakers? from what I remember the Payne name and equipment was picked upbyJohnson Wax who yearslater sold it to an employee who started REC.REC tried to get the Payne equipment up and running but could notproducetips (familiar? YES!! :) I drove down to Vermont a couple of years ago to purchase some of thePayne bamboo becausemy usual supplier at the time could not deliver. I was shown all thePayneequipment and ahalf finished rod shop with with a large window where visitors couldpeerin at a rodmakerat work. They told me they were looking for a rodmaker several timesandhow they plan toproduce Payne rods again. It sounded very much like a hint but I am notsure. I certainlywas not going to touch that. How can you build Payne rods if you are notPayne.It was very interesting to see the type of machinery that Payne usedand from that it waseasy to see that it was his genius that was was the real asset and nottheworn out junkthat was used.I cannot see how you can make Payne rods by picking up his equipmentlongafter he isdead. Rather like calling yourself Picasso and knocking out similarstyled work.Terry completely agreed but nevertheless they named themselves "Payne RodCo." As I asked them > what it means: handmade, the fellow mentionedthe splitting of a culm and straightening the splines. But to tell thetruth: these rods looked tidy.To bad they didn't let you cast themat the casting pool like other companies. Michael Michael Mèller wrote: Hi ArtI visited EFTTEX at Amsterdam (june18-20th) and talked about suchquestions to thepayne rodmakers and they told me:1.there are different tapers on the same models(they called it custom made!!)2. Rods of the same model # have an internal swelled butt and/oran external as well (same reason)I wouldnt dare to give different rods with a deviating design thesamename or model #but I'm not as famous as they are :)tight linesMichael Art Port wrote: All (and Dennis in particular)A while back Dennis posted a Payne 102 taper. I just wantedtoput it intoan Excel program I have and noticed that it has a swell at 8" fromthebutt. Was it common for a rod to have a swell INTERNAL to thehandle,or> > > > did this model have an extreeeemely short handle, or...? Ithoughttheswells always fell just before the cork began. (I am reminded ofsomethingabout rain in Spain.....) Thanks for any info anyone can provide onthis.Art from bdcreek@crosswinds.net Fri Jul 9 23:41:10 1999 (envelope- from bdcreek@crosswinds.net) Subject: Re: Question Hi guys- I've been reading this thread for awhile, and wanted to add my$0.02.If you buy a modern Payne, you're buying a modern rod made by the Paynecompany, not one made by the great dead rodmaker(s). Most folks wouldfigure that out pretty quickly. Harley Davidsons aren't made by thesame guys anymore either, but they're still great bikes, justdifferent. Ditto Mustangs and 'Vettes. My point is that there are some great old classics that we won't see thesame like of again. But that doesn't mean that a new iteration of theold theme won't still be hot.I wish anybody well who wants to make really nice flyrods out of bambooand sell them for enough money to live above the poverty line. I don'tthink sniping at them from here is appropriate. Brian from dpeaston@wzrd.com Sat Jul 10 08:21:07 1999 , ,, Subject: Re: Impregnating information. At 09:24 PM 7/9/1999 -0700, irish-george wrote:Two thoughts:1) Don't you want the test to be a bit more extreme than real-lifeconditions?2) And if you stick a slightly damp rod back in its case, toss it in thecar, head home, stop for an hour to eat...might the moisture not boil?Agreed that is NOT the way to treat a bamboo rod...but don't you want toprotect against what is probably a common occurrence? George---------------------------->snip---------------------------------------> Exactly what I was thinking, George. Severe field testing, Might be fun ! -Doug Easton from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Jul 10 08:24:55 1999 Subject: Re: Re Qeustion If this is true I would not be surprised if Bob Taylor was not helping themout.He was THE rodmaker at T&T before quitting to work for himself.Bob was apprenticed at H. Leonard and would hardly qualify as an unknown.I am not sure that T&T are too interested in cane anymore, they have areputation in the the fly fishing world that allows them to chargeexorbitantprices for graphite.When Len Codella (who was the driving force in marketing cane) and Taylor(theirrod maker) left there was a huge vacuum that has never been filled.Terry Eastkoyfly@aol.com wrote: And also Thomas&Thomas they are fetching over two thousand dollarsand fromwhat I understand they sub there work out to unknown makers and thewait isover two years long go figure! from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat Jul 10 10:59:35 1999 Sat, 10 Jul 1999 23:59:06 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: Re Qeustion I find myself in a position of experience here.Unworthy as I am, I nevertheless share a surname with PH Young, I'm norelation to Paul but I am to Peter who shiped with Fletcher Christian ofBounty fame but that's beside the point and another story completely.Getting back to the point I have had emails and have been asked personalyabout the relationship made worse I suppose by the fact I happen to like PHY's rods. If I had no scruples I'm sure I'd have flogged of several rods by now topunters based upon nothing but a name. Todd, Tony, Ted.... what was hisname now???In a way if someone bases a judgement on name alone I'malmost tempted to say it's just deserts. What's to stop me from decidingto call myself "Paul" Young?The name does mean a lot to people with enough knowleage to bedangerous.Take guns for eg. Bruno used to make a helluva good .22 20 years back. Themodel they've made since is still good but not as much so but people stillrave about Bruno .22s.Winchester Pigeon grade shotguns are another example, as are BrowningA5s.Browning is I believe made in Japan by a company called Miruku. I wonderhow many Miruku leaver action rifles sell compared to Browning? At leastthe factory in Japan making Winchester shotguns is called Winchester, Ithink?What would happen if Mazda bought Morgan? I find it very hard to understand why some-one would buy a rodmakersnameif it wasn't to jump start the business.A couple of people here I've sold rods to have or want to buy a T&T. Justnow a T&T costs about $3000!!!!! because of the exchange rate but I'm toldthey do trickle along. I tried one at one time and I really wasn'timpressed, not for 3 grand anyhow, but the owner cherished it so I kind ofmade purring noises to be polite but I still shake my head when I think ofit. Tony On Sat, 10 Jul 1999, TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: If this is true I would not be surprised if Bob Taylor was not helpingthem out.He was THE rodmaker at T&T before quitting to work for himself.Bob was apprenticed at H. Leonard and would hardly qualify as anunknown.I am not sure that T&T are too interested in cane anymore, they have areputation in the the fly fishing world that allows them to chargeexorbitantprices for graphite.When Len Codella (who was the driving force in marketing cane) andTaylor (theirrod maker) left there was a huge vacuum that has never been filled.Terry Eastkoyfly@aol.com wrote: And also Thomas&Thomas they are fetching over two thousand dollarsand fromwhat I understand they sub there work out to unknown makers and thewait isover two years long go figure! /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat Jul 10 11:33:50 1999 Sun, 11 Jul 1999 00:33:32 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: Impregnating information. I'm just asking because I think I'm missing something here.If something is forced in under pressure wont it seep back out at normalAP once the pressure is off? Tony On Fri, 9 Jul 1999 LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 7/9/99 6:17:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time, destinycon@mindspring.com writes: This brings up a few questions since putting something in a vacuum willboil the moisture out. 1. If one were to put the bamboo in the tube, heatit to about 100*, then hook up a deep vacuum pump and take it to 50 to100microns until it holds this pressure would this achieve the same resultsasa "high" (350*) heat treatment? 2. Does one have to "cook" the oils out,along with the moisture, or would a deep vacuum boil this oil off also? 3.Does the "high" heat fracture the bamboo cell walls thus releasing theoilsand moisture? 4. Would this method work before finishing to removeanymoisture that has rentered? 5. Or lastly, would this work to cure aglued-up section by removing the moisture in the glue?Regaqrds,Gary H. >> Gary,I am also a Volvo Tech. and work for our local Volvodealer. I do a lot of air conditioning repair work. We put thesystem under a vacuum down to 30 hg on our scale. This will "boil" the moisture out of the system, but does not removeany of the oil from the system. Dave LeClair /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from jf_gray@ix.netcom.com Sat Jul 10 13:35:22 1999 13:34:48 -0500 ix3.ix.netcom.com viasmap (V1.3) Subject: Sources for tools? I am looking for a binding machine, binding thread, a dial indicatorbase, 60 degree check, and a calibration bar. I've tried Jon Lintvet atMonro Rod Co., but he has been in the process of moving for the past fewweeks and hasn't been able to get back to me. I think Starrett has a 60degree check but I need a part number to order it. I have seen someplans for a binder at various locations, but the never seem to have thereal details, like pulley diameters, and exact locations etc. Theyalways seem to be kind of rough diagrams that are light on details.After reading that article on tuning a garrison style binder, I wouldrather have specific measurements for a proven working machine. I thinkJon might be the only source for a calibration bar, but maybe someoneout there knows of another source. I am sure there are dial indicatorbases that would work, but my local harbor freight only carries themagnetic kind with an adjustable arm as opposed to the hole through themiddle type. By the way, WoodCraft (800-225-1153) is an excellentsource scraper planes, and anything else wood working related (usualdisclaimers, yadda yadda yadda). Thanks for the help. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sat Jul 10 14:44:17 1999 Subject: Re: Impregnating information. In a message dated 7/10/99 9:39:53 AM Pacific Daylight Time, tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au writes: Tony,We're talking about putting the rod under avacuum, not under pressure. When enough vacuum isapplied, this will "boil" out any moisture that is in it. Dave from fiveside@net-gate.com Sat Jul 10 15:22:24 1999 ns1.net-gate.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA14336 for; Subject: Re: Abbreviations Thanks to all who responded. I did have both sites bookmarked but couldn'tmake the connection. Bill from sniderja@email.uc.edu Sat Jul 10 15:37:39 1999 0400 "dickay@alltel.net" ,"richard.nantel@videotron.ca" ,"leroyt@involved.com" ,"k5vkq@ix.netcom.com" ,"RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: RE: Impregnating information. The assumption here is that an impregnation process allows better protection for the rod. Intuitively, most of us would likely agree that this would be true. In perusing the archives, however, I see that not all rod makers completely agree with this, depending upon the impregnation technique(s) used, and other factors. Indeed, a few have stated that impregnation affects the rod action, adds additional weight, etc. The reason for a control is to be certain that the particular impregnation process being utilized is actually better than not impregnating the rod. Why go through all of the fuss to impregnate the blank if it turns out to be of little difference? I lay absolutely no claim to having any knowledge whatsoever re impregnation of rod blanks, that's a fact! However, I doknow that if I were attempting this process, I would want some standardagainst which to compare the process, i.e. the need for a control if one wants to know if the process really works.J. Snider. -----Original Message----- richard.nantel@videotron.ca; leroyt@involved.com; k5vkq@ix.netcom.com;RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Impregnating information. Depends on the goal here. I think it is to verify that the rod hasn'tchanged, not whether it is better or worse than a varnished one...I'd forgetabout the varnished rod (really no reason to screw up a varnished rod). George -----Original Message----- ; richard.nantel@videotron.ca; leroyt@involved.com;k5vkq@ix.netcom.com ;RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Impregnating information. Hey, guys and gals, don't forget to use a non-impregnated control in yourexperiment.J. Snider.At 06:01 AM 7/9/99 -0500, Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote:George, Richard, Onis, All,George has the right idea. I think that I would weight it first on a veryaccurate scale and then weight it several more times during the testingprocess to see if it gained any moisture. If it didn't gain any weight then the impregnation process was keeping themoisture out. Suspending weights off the tip and measuring the deflection before andafterthe various steps of the testing would be another way of finding theeffectsof the impregnation process. Any other ideas? Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net ----- Original Message -----From: irish-george ; Sent: Thursday, July 08, 1999 11:52 PMSubject: Re: Impregnating information. Gee, a H.A.L.T. (highly accelerated life test) procedure for a bamboorod!!I'd think a very good way to give it as much (or more) stress than itwouldget in 10 years would be to boil it in water for an hour or two, take itfishing for a weekend, then boil it again for an hour or two. You getheat,moisture, mechanical stress, followed by more heat and moisture. Ithinkitwould be important to boil, cast, reboil to verify that the heat andmoisture didn't make it susceptible to stress fractures, then reboil toverify that the casting didn't open up minicule seam fractures thatwouldallow moisture and heat to damage the rod. This seems to be a very good subject to kick around. Anyone else haveanyother thoughts? Anything I'm missing? A better way to do? Allcommentswelcome!! George Bourke-----Original Message-----From: Richard Nantel ; RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Thursday, July 08, 1999 7:34 PMSubject: RE: Impregnating information. Continuing on the subject of impregnation, what wouldbe a good way to test the success of impregnationexperiments? I'd rather not wait 20 years to see howsuccessfully moisture resistant a rod I've impregnatedis. Richard from stevef@inetone.net Sat Jul 10 18:48:07 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id AB4F84B0118; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 19:46:23 -0400 Subject: classes boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BECB0C.E39B3B80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BECB0C.E39B3B80 List:Any one know of bamboo rod making classes one can attend. Would love to=go to Cattanach class-but the times offered this year so far have not = ThanksSteve Ferris ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BECB0C.E39B3B80 List:Any one know of bamboorod = offered this year so far have not been good for me. Any other classes = ThanksSteve =Ferris ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BECB0C.E39B3B80-- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat Jul 10 19:32:27 1999 Sun, 11 Jul 1999 08:32:08 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: Abbreviations On Sat, 10 Jul 1999, Bill Fink wrote: Thanks to all who responded. I did have both sites bookmarked butcouldn'tmake the connection. Bill :-)))) /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from mevans@acxiom.com Sat Jul 10 20:47:05 1999 (router,SLMail V3.2); Sat, 10 Jul 1999 20:40:36 -0500 (204.107.111.23::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V3.2); Sat, 10 Jul 199920:40:35-0500 popmail.conway.acxiom.com ; Sat Jul10 20:40:35 1999 -0500 (5.5.2448.0) Subject: Atlas 10" Lathe To the List,I may have an opportunity to purchase a "10" Atlas Lathe 36". I am notfamiliar withlathes, especially Atlas models. Would someone be able to offer me somefeedback on thesuitability of this for rodmaking? Any thoughts on a typical market price would also be appreciated. Thank you,Mark from cattanac@wmis.net Sat Jul 10 21:19:06 1999 mail4.wmis.net(8.8.8/SCO5) with SMTP id WAA15484 for ;Sat, 10 Jul 1999 Subject: Re: classes boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01BECB22.ACC6F840" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BECB22.ACC6F840 Steve -I may even have a slight problem with the August class myself ( may =accept an instructor position at the local college) - however here is a =list of others that I know that have talked of doing classes at =different times White River Artisian - Cotter, Ark (I originally did clases here)Don Cleveland - 501-430-5437 Lon Blauvelt - Falmouth, ME -207 - 781 - 5235 (Lon has advertised =classes for several years George Maurer - Shoemakersville, PA - 610 - 562 - 8595 (George has done=individual sessions for several years) Chris Bogart - Luray, VA - 540 - 743 - 7169 ( Chris has taught nodeless =construction for a couple of years now) Jeff Wagner - Parma Heights, OH - 440 - 845 - 4415 ( Jeff had a class =schedules for a couple of weeks ago - he may have others planned) Ralph Moon - Chester, ID - 208 - 624 - 3206 ( Ralph has taught classes = Ron Barch - Hastings, MI - 616 - 945 - 2329 (I have heard that Ron has =done some individual instruction) The Bamboo Rod Shop - 714 - 921 - 1964 (saw the ad) Classic Cane - Doug Kulack sp? - heard he does a couple days of =instruction and you then finish one of his blanks Obviously - I hope that I haven't left anyone out - you might check with =mme in a couple of weeks if I get the Instructors job I will need to =blow off a few weeks of vaction - which I will spend in Grayrock - we =might be able to help you out Wayne Sent: Saturday, July 10, 1999 7:46 PMSubject: classes List:Any one know of bamboo rod making classes one can attend. Would love =to go to Cattanach class-but the times offered this year so far have = ThanksSteve Ferris ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BECB22.ACC6F840 Steve - problem = August class myself ( may accept an instructor position at the local = however here is a list of others that I know that have talked of doing = at different times White River Artisian - Cotter, Ark (I originally did = here)Don Cleveland - 501-430-5437 Lon Blauvelt - Falmouth, ME -207 - 781 - 5235 (Lon= advertised classes for several years = (George has done individual sessions for several years) Chris Bogart - Luray, VA - 540 - 743 - 7169 ( Chris= nodeless construction for a couple of years now) Jeff Wagner - Parma Heights, OH - 440 - 845 - 4415( = planned) Ralph Moon - Chester, ID - 208 - 624 - 3206 ( Ralph= classes for longer than I have with quite a list of =students) Ron Barch - Hastings, MI - 616 - 945 - 2329 (I have= Ron has done some individual instruction) The Bamboo Rod Shop - 714 - 921 - 1964 (saw ad) Classic Cane - Doug Kulack sp? - heard he does a = of instruction and you then finish one of his blanks Obviously - I hope that I haven't left anyone out - = check with mme in a couple of weeks if I get the Instructors job I will = blow off a few weeks of vaction - which I will spend in Grayrock - we = Wayne ----- Original Message ----- steve = Sent: Saturday, July 10, 1999 = PMSubject: classes List:Any one know ofbamboo = times offered this year so far have not been good for me. Any other = Thanks Ferris ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BECB22.ACC6F840-- from hiltonl@benzie.com Sat Jul 10 23:48:29 1999 (SMTPD32-4.07) id A2ACA622010E; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 00:50:52 EST Subject: Re:Farlow's web site Someone earlier mentioned that Farlow's had a web site but did not knowit's address.Farlow's of Pall Mall 's web site is www.farlows.co.uk/ Enjoy. P.S. no commercial interest, etc.Larry from Millsx5@aol.com Sun Jul 11 07:05:59 1999 Subject: Japoneese bamboo rod To The List, A friend of mine at work showed me a Japanese bamboo combination surfand boat rod. The rod has never been used and is in its original wooden box. Can anyone tell me something about the rod and its possible value. The markings on the rod state it was made by a company called Kiraku and the model is Grampus. The only other markings on the rod are "Tokyo Made In Occupied Japan" from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Jul 11 11:00:26 1999 Sun, 11 Jul 1999 23:56:53 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) "dickay@alltel.net" ,"richard.nantel@videotron.ca" ,"leroyt@involved.com" ,"k5vkq@ix.netcom.com" ,"RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: RE: Impregnating information. It all just comes down to personal preferances and is like most things inthat although the differences may be slight it's enough to tip the balanceone way or the other. Impregnating a rod will alter it's action as opposedto using spar varnish but so will using epoxy rather than resorcinol. I'veonly tried huge great English rods that were impregnated and I simplydidn't like them so I can't comment on the relative differences though I'd reckon it'd stiffen things up a little.The main reason for impregnation is to reduce or eliminate moisturere-entry. If the cells are filled with something already water can't getin. Terry has mentioned old impregnated rods that are still as stiff asnew without any particular care being taken for them but as with all thesethings you need to just try a few and see what you think. Tony On Sat, 10 Jul 1999, Jerry Snider wrote: The assumption here is that an impregnation process allows better protection for the rod. Intuitively, most of us would likely agree that this would be true. In perusing the archives, however, I see that not all rod makers completely agree with this, depending upon the impregnation technique(s) used, and other factors. Indeed, a few have stated that impregnation affects the rod action, adds additional weight, etc. The reason for a control is to be certain that the particular impregnation process being utilized is actually better than not impregnating the rod. Why go through all of the fuss to impregnate the blank if it turns out to be of little difference? I lay absolutely no claim to having anyknowledge whatsoever re impregnation of rod blanks, that's a fact! However, I doknow that if I were attempting this process, I would want some standardagainst which to compare the process, i.e. the need for a control if one wants to know if the process really works.J. Snider. -----Original Message-----From: irish-george [SMTP:irish- george@worldnet.att.net]Sent: Saturday, July 10, 1999 12:18 AM richard.nantel@videotron.ca; leroyt@involved.com; k5vkq@ix.netcom.com;RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Impregnating information. Depends on the goal here. I think it is to verify that the rod hasn'tchanged, not whether it is better or worse than a varnished one...I'd forgetabout the varnished rod (really no reason to screw up a varnished rod). George -----Original Message-----From: Jerry Snider ; richard.nantel@videotron.ca; leroyt@involved.com;k5vkq@ix.netcom.com ;RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Friday, July 09, 1999 4:37 AMSubject: Re: Impregnating information. Hey, guys and gals, don't forget to use a non-impregnated control in yourexperiment.J. Snider.At 06:01 AM 7/9/99 -0500, Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote:George, Richard, Onis, All,George has the right idea. I think that I would weight it first on a veryaccurate scale and then weight it several more times during thetestingprocess to see if it gained any moisture. If it didn't gain any weight then the impregnation process was keeping themoisture out. Suspending weights off the tip and measuring the deflection before andafterthe various steps of the testing would be another way of finding theeffectsof the impregnation process. Any other ideas? Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net ----- Original Message -----From: irish-george ; Sent: Thursday, July 08, 1999 11:52 PMSubject: Re: Impregnating information. Gee, a H.A.L.T. (highly accelerated life test) procedure for a bamboorod!!I'd think a very good way to give it as much (or more) stress than itwouldget in 10 years would be to boil it in water for an hour or two, take itfishing for a weekend, then boil it again for an hour or two. You getheat,moisture, mechanical stress, followed by more heat and moisture. Ithinkitwould be important to boil, cast, reboil to verify that the heat andmoisture didn't make it susceptible to stress fractures, then reboiltoverify that the casting didn't open up minicule seam fractures thatwouldallow moisture and heat to damage the rod. This seems to be a very good subject to kick around. Anyone elsehaveanyother thoughts? Anything I'm missing? A better way to do? Allcommentswelcome!! George Bourke-----Original Message-----From: Richard Nantel ; RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Thursday, July 08, 1999 7:34 PMSubject: RE: Impregnating information. Continuing on the subject of impregnation, what wouldbe a good way to test the success of impregnationexperiments? I'd rather not wait 20 years to see howsuccessfully moisture resistant a rod I've impregnatedis. Richard /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from stevef@inetone.net Sun Jul 11 11:37:05 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A7CAAFB0116; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 12:35:22 -0400 Subject: classes boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01BECB99.D72AE520" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BECB99.D72AE520 List:Thanks to all who offered information on rod making classes, especially =Wayne, Toney, and David.Thanks againSteve ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BECB99.D72AE520 List:Thanks to all whooffered = on rod making classes, especially Wayne, Toney, and = Thanks =again ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BECB99.D72AE520-- from saltwein@swbell.net Sun Jul 11 13:03:58 1999 Subject: "444"/double haul Hi Everyone, I went to a friends place today to do a little fishing and show off mynew 4'-4" 4 wt. I built it to AJ's taper (thank you for sharing ) butbuilt it as a one piece. An incredible little rod. Thirty feet of lineis effortless. I was explaining to my friends how the people at SRG I would use adouble haul to effortlessly cast a great deal of line while testing arod. After describing it to them I thought I would try it, and Voila! Iam now double hauling. Feature that, explaining something you can't doand then trying it and having success. I will have to get in a lot morepractice before it comes out of the bag in front of others though. Both of my friends present were impressed with the little rod and werewondering "Now what would a rod like that cost"? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from angelruten@smile.ch Sun Jul 11 13:19:50 1999 Subject: Arion Rods boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0040_01BECBDA.84CEB180" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0040_01BECBDA.84CEB180 This weekend was one of my luckies moment in life - i found an old =rodmanufacterer who closes ecact this week his business. The loft was =full ofold, unused fiberglass rods, and also some bamboo sticks from the =swedish manufacterer Arion.The only bad thing - uncomleted rods - from some only the tip, from =others the mid or only the butts. Theres anyone on the list who knows where i can find the tapers for make=nwe parts for this rods? Thanks in advance for all answers Stefan S. Grau`s *atelier edelweiss*Seftigenstr. 20 CH-3007 BernTel/Fax: 0041 (0) 31 372 91 85, ab 19.00 / from 7.pm CET-mail: atelier: angelruten@smile.chprivat: fishing@freesurf.ch Internet: http://members.tripod.com/Bamboorods/default.htmhttp://bamboorods.hypermart.net ------=_NextPart_000_0040_01BECBDA.84CEB180 This weekend was one of myluckies = life - i found an old rodmanufacterer who closes ecact this week his = The loft was full ofold,unused = and also some bamboo sticks from the swedish manufacterer =Arion.The only bad thing - uncomleted rods - from some = from others the mid or only the butts. Theres anyone on the list who knows where i canfind = tapers for make nwe parts for this rods? Thanks in advance for all answers Stefan S. Grau`s *atelier = 20 CH-3007 BernTel/Fax: 0041(0) 31 = Internet: http://members.= http://bamboorods.hypermart.ne=t ------=_NextPart_000_0040_01BECBDA.84CEB180-- from dryfly@erols.com Sun Jul 11 18:55:06 1999 Subject: Re: "444"/double haul I have to agree on the 4'4" #4. I cast mine for the first time today andwas very impressed, now I've got to get it on the stream. I liked the SageWF4 Quiet Taper better than a DT3, but want to try it with my DT3 silk. Bob ----- Original Message ----- Subject: "444"/double haul Hi Everyone, I went to a friends place today to do a little fishing and show off mynew 4'-4" 4 wt. I built it to AJ's taper (thank you for sharing ) butbuilt it as a one piece. An incredible little rod. Thirty feet of lineis effortless. I was explaining to my friends how the people at SRG I would use adouble haul to effortlessly cast a great deal of line while testing arod. After describing it to them I thought I would try it, and Voila! Iam now double hauling. Feature that, explaining something you can't doand then trying it and having success. I will have to get in a lot morepractice before it comes out of the bag in front of others though. Both of my friends present were impressed with the little rod and werewondering "Now what would a rod like that cost"? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Jul 11 20:28:45 1999 Subject: Re: Atlas 10" Lathe Mark,An Atlas 10' lathe would work out great for your rod work. Depending on the condition and weather it has changegears (separate gears to change speeds) or levers to changespeeds. I would say a price from $500.00 to $1,000.00 wouldbe good. Dave from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Jul 11 20:34:26 1999 Subject: Re: Japoneese bamboo rod In a message dated 7/11/99 5:14:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time,Millsx5@aol.com writes: I've seen quite a few of these type rods and all I can tellyou is that they aren't worth much. Some that I've seen looked to be fairly well made, but there is no market for them.Maybe $25.00 to $50.00 . That's all they're worth. Dave from KPres375@aol.com Sun Jul 11 21:14:08 1999 Subject: Re: Japoneese bamboo rod KPres375@aol.com In a message dated 7/11/99 9:37:12 PM, LECLAIR123@aol.com writes: I've seen quite a few of these type rods and all I can tellyou is that they aren't worth much. Some that I've seen looked to be fairly well made, but there is no market for them.Maybe $25.00 to $50.00 . That's all they're worth. Dave \\ Gentlemen While these rods are certainly not worth very much as collectors items I would like to have one or two that are in good/excellent shape formy personal collection. If you are willing to part with the one you described please let me know. Why? Well my wife is Japanese - that's one fair reason. The second, probably better reason is that I would like on to show other people who might have one - to do that I need to have one with the makers labels/stamps. Please let me know... Ken Prestonkpres375@aol.com http://kensfishingrods.com from WLBond@cps-satx.com Mon Jul 12 07:27:23 1999 199912:31:05 UT Subject: RE: classes How do you apply for an instructors position to teach rod building? Thatsounds like the perfect job for me. I taught computer classes(COBOL, C++,Systems Analysis, etc) for six years. But this sounds like the dream jobofa lifetime. Where do I send my resume?Bill ----------From: Wayne Cattanach[SMTP:cattanac@wmis.net] Sent: Saturday, July 10, 1999 9:22 PM Subject: Re: classes Steve -I may even have a slight problem with the August class myself ( mayaccept an instructor position at the local college) - however here is alist of others that I know that have talked of doing classes at differenttimes White River Artisian - Cotter, Ark (I originally did clases here)Don Cleveland - 501-430-5437 Lon Blauvelt - Falmouth, ME -207 - 781 - 5235 (Lon has advertisedclasses George Maurer - Shoemakersville, PA - 610 - 562 - 8595 (George hasdoneindividual sessions for several years) Chris Bogart - Luray, VA - 540 - 743 - 7169 ( Chris has taught nodelessconstruction for a couple of years now) Jeff Wagner - Parma Heights, OH - 440 - 845 - 4415 ( Jeff had a classschedules for a couple of weeks ago - he may have others planned) Ralph Moon - Chester, ID - 208 - 624 - 3206 ( Ralph has taught classesforlonger than I have with quite a list of students) Ron Barch - Hastings, MI - 616 - 945 - 2329 (I have heard that Ron hasdone some individual instruction) The Bamboo Rod Shop - 714 - 921 - 1964 (saw the ad) Classic Cane - Doug Kulack sp? - heard he does a couple days ofinstruction and you then finish one of his blanks Obviously - I hope that I haven't left anyone out - you might check withmme in a couple of weeks if I get the Instructors job I will need to blowoff a few weeks of vaction - which I will spend in Grayrock - we mightbe able to help you out Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: steve Sent: Saturday, July 10, 1999 7:46 PMSubject: classes List:Any one know of bamboo rod making classes one can attend. Wouldloveto go to Cattanach class-but the times offered this year so far have notbeen good for me. Any other classes available? ThanksSteve Ferris from angelruten@smile.ch Mon Jul 12 07:51:39 1999 (MET DST) Subject: olympic rods Dear friends anybody knows the brand "olympic"? think they made splitcane and lateralso fiberglass rods. i`m not shure, but the maker/s) could beUeno-Seiko, Japan. Any further infos from your profs? Thanks in advance for all answers Stefan ---------------------------------------------------------------Sicherheits-Hinweis: Diese elektronische Post ist nur fèr den oder die Empf€nger, welchein der Adress-Zeile genannt werden bestimmt!Falls Sie nicht zu diesen gehåren, verståsst jede- unerlaubte Kopie,- unerlaubte Weiterleitung,- unerlaubte Kenntnisnahme, auch vermutlich oeffentlicher Inhalte,- und unerlaubte Verbreitung der enthaltenen Nachricht(en),sowie jeder anderer unautorisierte Gebrauch gegen geltendes Recht. Falls Sie nicht zu den in der Adresszeile genannten Empf€nger(n)gehåren,so bitten wir Sie um Kontaktnahme des Absenders und Zerstårungder betreffenden Daten von Ihrem Computer._________________________________________ Security-Note: The information transmitted is intended only for the personor entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidentialand/or privileged material.Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, ortaking of any action in reliance upon, this information bypersons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.If you received this in error, please contact the sender and deletethe material from any computer. from cattanac@wmis.net Mon Jul 12 10:13:04 1999 mail4.wmis.net (8.8.8/SCO5) with SMTP id LAA01736; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 11:00:47 -0400 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu","'Bond, William L'" Subject: RE: classes Bill - I only wish - the job is HVAC-R instructor - not rod making - but heyit wouldgive me the summers off :-) ---------- Subject: RE: classes How do you apply for an instructors position to teach rod building? Thatsounds like the perfect job for me. I taught computer classes(COBOL, C++,Systems Analysis, etc) for six years. But this sounds like the dream jobofa lifetime. Where do I send my resume?Bill ----------From: Wayne Cattanach[SMTP:cattanac@wmis.net] Sent: Saturday, July 10, 1999 9:22 PM Subject: Re: classes Steve -I may even have a slight problem with the August class myself ( mayaccept an instructor position at the local college) - however here is alist of others that I know that have talked of doing classes at differenttimes White River Artisian - Cotter, Ark (I originally did clases here)Don Cleveland - 501-430-5437Lon Blauvelt - Falmouth, ME -207 - 781 - 5235 (Lon has advertisedclasses George Maurer - Shoemakersville, PA - 610 - 562 - 8595 (George hasdoneindividual sessions for several years) Chris Bogart - Luray, VA - 540 - 743 - 7169 ( Chris has taught nodelessconstruction for a couple of years now) Jeff Wagner - Parma Heights, OH - 440 - 845 - 4415 ( Jeff had a classschedules for a couple of weeks ago - he may have others planned) Ralph Moon - Chester, ID - 208 - 624 - 3206 ( Ralph has taught classesforlonger than I have with quite a list of students) Ron Barch - Hastings, MI - 616 - 945 - 2329 (I have heard that Ron hasdone some individual instruction) The Bamboo Rod Shop - 714 - 921 - 1964 (saw the ad) Classic Cane - Doug Kulack sp? - heard he does a couple days ofinstruction and you then finish one of his blanks Obviously - I hope that I haven't left anyone out - you might check withmme in a couple of weeks if I get the Instructors job I will need to blowoff a few weeks of vaction - which I will spend in Grayrock - we mightbe able to help you out Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: steve Sent: Saturday, July 10, 1999 7:46 PMSubject: classes List:Any one know of bamboo rod making classes one can attend. Wouldloveto go to Cattanach class-but the times offered this year so far have notbeen good for me. Any other classes available? ThanksSteve Ferris from Canerods@aol.com Mon Jul 12 17:52:11 1999 Subject: Back from vacation All, Glad to be home from our european vacation, SO had to go to Brussels for business and we added a few days in Paris to celebrate for our 15thwedding anniversary. Had a nice time, but didn't get to fish. (: Don Burns from jaquin@netsync.net Mon Jul 12 21:34:06 1999 Subject: Fall Gathering at Carlile, Pa. Understand tom Whittle is hosting the Fall Event. Anybody have hise-mail or snail-mail address? I would like to register this week. tia jerry from saltwein@swbell.net Tue Jul 13 06:07:13 1999 Subject: Hexrod Question Why does hexrod change a zero entry dimension to a one inch dimension? Regards, Steve from anglport@con2.com Tue Jul 13 11:17:19 1999 Subject: Re: Hexrod Question Steve,I'm not positive since I haven't used any of Garrison's formulas inquiteawhile, but I think the figures are all moments and you need a "distance"to figure a moment. Zero wouldn't give any value at all and 1" of rod isn'tgoing to change your cross-section appreciably, especially since thetheoretical tip diameter is usually beefed up for reinforcement anyway.Just the way I remember it.Art At 06:08 AM 7/13/99 -0700, Steve Trauthwein wrote:Why does hexrod change a zero entry dimension to a one inch dimension? Regards, Steve from mcs@fastlane.net Tue Jul 13 11:19:18 1999 Subject: Material Info Source? I know this is a cane rodmakers list..., but, does anyone know of a good resource for graphite material? Specifically I want to know what IM6,IM7, IM8, modulus, etc... are and which to choose for a given fishing situation? Thanks all. from cattanac@wmis.net Tue Jul 13 11:19:35 1999 mail4.wmis.net (8.8.8/SCO5) with SMTP id MAA22510 for; Tue, 12:07:22 -0400 Subject: RE: Hexrod Question Steve -The short answer is this - number 1 appears where an entry was leftblank - whenthe program sees a 1 it knows that it must average the given dimensionseither side ofthe 1's - in truth I use the 1 to fill the blanks and then use them as acounter wherewith a zero (or rather a blank) I would have had to set up a little fancierloopcounter. There are only 2 need dimensions - the tip and the butt. I suspectthat somereal programmers out there are mumbling in the back ground - an answerbut not a goodone.---------- Subject: Hexrod Question Why does hexrod change a zero entry dimension to a one inch dimension? Regards, Steve from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Tue Jul 13 11:27:20 1999 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id LAA10280; Tue, 13 Jul1999 11:27:19 -0500 (8.8.4/8.6.8) with Subject: Re: Hexrod Question Steve, I assume you are referring to the hexrod on the Web. In the original program, everything started at the 1-inch point.Rod measurements often came this way, but sometimes they startedat the 0- inch point (ie measured with the tiptop removed), so Iadded an option for this. If you enter a dimension at 0, the programjust interpolates it to the 1 inch point and works from there. Soif the rod is .050 at 0 inch and .075 at 5 inches, it uses .055 at1 inch as the first point and forgets about the 0 inch point. This is certainly a place the program could be more consistent. These things start with a simple idea and keep on getting more messy. Reallythe whole thing should be rewitten from scratch...but who has the time?......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Tue, 13 Jul 1999, Steve Trauthwein wrote: Why does hexrod change a zero entry dimension to a one inch dimension? Regards, Steve from hhholland@erols.com Tue Jul 13 14:32:32 1999 191.s191.tnt1.clm.md.dialup.rcn.com Subject: Re: Fall Gathering at Carlile, Pa. Hi Jerry,I have Tom's e-mail address as: tom@cet-inc.com Don't know if it is stillcorrect, but I hope it helps.Regards, Hank H. -----Original Message----- Subject: Fall Gathering at Carlile, Pa. Understand tom Whittle is hosting the Fall Event. Anybody have hise-mail or snail-mail address? I would like to register this week. tia jerry from irvine@bamboorods.org Tue Jul 13 20:57:49 1999 4.30.0010/LC0055.00.e068cef4) with ESMTP id jvzkaaaa for;Tue, 13 Jul 1999 18:57:02 -0700 Subject: Great Western Jeremy & All, Sorry to be tardy on this but am still in the process of moving fromBonita to Bishop and I only have E-mail in Bonita. Seems we have atleast 20+ interested in getting together and the last week or weekend ofOct. is the preferred date, this conflicts with the gathering inMountain Home I believe but Guess we will go with it anyway. I now needsome ideas for a program if we want one and some help in getting itorganized otherwise we will all just fish and sit around discussing thevirtues of bamboo and those that build the rods. Any comments, ideas, program directors, etc. would be gratefullyaccepted. Tight Lines, Chuck from sats@gte.net Tue Jul 13 21:17:14 1999 Subject: Steelhead on bamboo? Why not! Just got back from Oregon. Mostly sight seeing and visiting friends thataren'tthat much into fly fishing. However, I did get to return to Steamboat Inn on the North Umpqua. Hoping toget there for the mid part of the summer steelhead run. (If I did I suredidn'tknow it. ) Part of the trip involved looking up the resident cat, "Sport,"who,due to cat skin cancer, looks like an alien from outer space. I don't knowifshe remembered us or not, but she did spend the night with us. I spent an afternoon and a morning on the water. I'd need to spend a lotmoretime then that to get use to wading in that current! That far up the NorthUmpqua is a mountain stream and the snow pack was late melting. Idefiantly hadto watch my step. But what to use to fish? Last year, I refinished a Shakespear 9f x 8w 3p. (IfI slow down and let the rod do the work, I can throw an entire DT8F.) Itookit out to give it a try. I figured I'd fish with it one day and the graphite Ibuilt two years ago, the other. Didn't happen that way. the graphite stayed in the tube and the bamboo didallthe work. Anyone who doesn't believe that you can use a bamboo rod forbig fishshould get one of the old rods that were used in grandad's day and give it atry. I got a couple 100 more of my 1000 casts toward a steelhead, but the nexttimeI'm going to see about getting a guide and maybe make the winter run. And, yes, I will use bamboo for my primary! Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from sats@gte.net Tue Jul 13 21:18:56 1999 Subject: Re: Japoneese bamboo rod ... markings on the rod state it was made by a company called Kiraku andthe model is Grampus. The only other markings on the rod are "Tokyo Made In Occupied Japan" The words "Made in Occupied Japan." Might make the rod worth more. Theywereused for a short time after the war and most things with that marking onthembring more then other products of the same type, marked simply, "Made inJapan." Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Jul 14 06:58:28 1999 Subject: Gatlinburg Tenn/ rod list Is anyone planning on going to Tenn in August for the FFF Conclave andgoing to the bamboo rod symposium?Bret A side note ; all who have asked for my list of rods (four sail) I will send that out this weekend from ednaren@borg.com Wed Jul 14 07:30:45 1999 madcow.borg.com(8.9.0/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA23670 for ;Wed, 14 Jul 1999 (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP Subject: Leonard Rod I've just acquired a Leonard Fly rod and would like some help withinformationand value. The rod is in MINT condition. It's a 9foot two piece , with twotips.The butt cap is marked "the Leonard Rod, H.L.Leonard Rod Co. Makers. " Ithas the original tube, with brass end caps. The cloth bag is also originaland in excellent condition. It has a factory tag that has handwritten,"L.S.Lock, 9",6 1/4 oz., Model # C7." the other side of the tag has instructions fortaking care of your rod. The grip of the rod still has the original tissuepaper wrapping it. Any information regarding this rod would beappreciated.ThanksEd Narenkivicius from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Jul 14 10:55:38 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Wed, 14 Jul 1999 10:55:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Great Western Chuck,Good luck with your gathering. The simplest way to get some demosgoing is ask those who are committed to attending what they want toshow andtell. Almost all of them have something worth seeing. Sorry about thedateconflicts with our Southern Gathering, but if I can help in any way, justlet me know, Harry Boyd from flyfortrout@hotmail.com Wed Jul 14 11:36:08 1999 Wed, 14 Jul 1999 09:36:03 PDT Subject: Planes What would be a fair price for used Stanley 60 1/2 & 9 1/2 planes? I'm shopping around and want to know what is a good deal and what is not. Also, what are some of your favorite planes and do most of you use 1,2 or 3planes Thanks! Greg Holland _______________________________________________________________Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Jul 14 11:51:53 1999 9:54:24 PDT Subject: RE: Planes Greg, I bought a new Stanley 9 1/2 (12-020) through a local home improvement store for $38.00. They had to order it since they have a limited selection in stock and this is a more specialized plane. Others may have opinions on whether new Stanley's are as true etc. as the old Stanley's. I don't have an opinion on that. My guess is that decent older ones are at least as expensive as new ones, due to the collector influences on market value. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from eestlow@srminc.com Wed Jul 14 12:36:40 1999 with ESMTP id 1999071412300057:10078 ;Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:30:00 - 0500 with ESMTP id 1999071412293901:10040 ;Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:29:39 - 0500 with ESMTP id 1999071412292024:10002 ;Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:29:20 - 0500 with ESMTP id 1999071412285391:9964 ;Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:28:53 -0500 with ESMTP id 1999071412282284:9927 ;Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:28:22 -0500 with ESMTP id 1999071412275549:9888 ;Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:27:55 -0500 with ESMTP id 1999071412272784:9850 ;Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:27:27 -0500 with ESMTP id 1999071412265765:9811 ;Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:26:57 -0500 with ESMTP id 1999071412262788:9773 ;Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:26:27 -0500 with ESMTP id 1999071412255443:9734 ;Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:25:54 -0500 with ESMTP id 1999071412251540:9694 ;Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:25:15 -0500 with ESMTP id 1999071412243255:9654 ;Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:24:32 -0500 with ESMTP id 1999071412235760:9615 ;Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:23:57 -0500 with ESMTP id 1999071412231405:9574 ;Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:23:14 -0500 with ESMTP id 1999071412223457:9535 ;Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:22:34 -0500 with ESMTP id 1999071412215582:9496 ;Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:21:55 -0500 with ESMTP id 1999071412211304:9457 ;Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:21:13 -0500 with ESMTP id 1999071412203288:9419 ;Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:20:32 -0500 with ESMTP id 1999071412194896:9378 ;Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:19:48 -0500 with ESMTP id 1999071412190853:9341 ;Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:19:08 -0500 with ESMTP id 1999071412182878:9303 ;Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:18:28 -0500 with ESMTP id 1999071412174956:9265 ;Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:17:49 -0500 with ESMTP id 1999071412171262:9230 ;Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:17:12 -0500 Subject: RE: Planes 1999) at07/14/9912:28:05 PM,Itemize by SMTP Server on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999)at 07/14/9912:17:12 PM,Serialize by Router on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999) at07/14/9912:17:49 PM,Serialize complete at 07/14/99 12:17:49 PM,Itemize by SMTP Server on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999)at 07/14/9912:17:49 PM,Serialize by Router on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999) at07/14/9912:18:28 PM,Serialize complete at 07/14/99 12:18:28 PM,Itemize by SMTP Server on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999)at 07/14/9912:18:28 PM,Serialize by Router on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999) at07/14/9912:19:08 PM,Serialize complete at 07/14/99 12:19:08 PM,Itemize by SMTP Server on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999)at 07/14/9912:19:09 PM,Serialize by Router on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999) at07/14/9912:19:49 PM,Serialize complete at 07/14/99 12:19:49 PM,Itemize by SMTP Server on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999)at 07/14/9912:19:49 PM,Serialize by Router on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999) at07/14/9912:20:32 PM,Serialize complete at 07/14/99 12:20:32 PM,Itemize by SMTP Server on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999)at 07/14/9912:20:32 PM,Serialize by Router on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999) at07/14/9912:21:13 PM,Serialize complete at 07/14/99 12:21:13 PM,Itemize by SMTP Server on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999)at 07/14/9912:21:13 PM,Serialize by Router on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999) at07/14/9912:21:55 PM,Serialize complete at 07/14/99 12:21:55 PM,Itemize by SMTP Server on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999)at 07/14/9912:21:55 PM,Serialize by Router on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999) at07/14/9912:22:34 PM,Serialize complete at 07/14/99 12:22:34 PM,Itemize by SMTP Server on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999)at 07/14/9912:22:35 PM,Serialize by Router on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999) at07/14/9912:23:14 PM,Serialize complete at 07/14/99 12:23:14 PM,Itemize by SMTP Server on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999)at 07/14/9912:23:14 PM,Serialize by Router on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999) at07/14/9912:23:57 PM,Serialize complete at 07/14/99 12:23:57 PM,Itemize by SMTP Server on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999)at 07/14/9912:23:57 PM,Serialize by Router on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999) at07/14/9912:24:32 PM,Serialize complete at 07/14/99 12:24:32 PM,Itemize by SMTP Server on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999)at 07/14/9912:24:33 PM,Serialize by Router on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999) at07/14/9912:25:15 PM,Serialize complete at 07/14/99 12:25:15 PM,Itemize by SMTP Server on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999)at 07/14/9912:25:15 PM,Serialize by Router on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999) at07/14/9912:25:54 PM,Serialize complete at 07/14/99 12:25:54 PM,Itemize by SMTP Server on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999)at 07/14/9912:25:54 PM,Serialize by Router on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999) at07/14/9912:26:28 PM,Serialize complete at 07/14/99 12:26:28 PM,Itemize by SMTP Server on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999)at 07/14/9912:26:28 PM,Serialize by Router on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999) at07/14/9912:26:58 PM,Serialize complete at 07/14/99 12:26:58 PM,Itemize by SMTP Server on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999)at 07/14/9912:26:58 PM,Serialize by Router on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999) at07/14/9912:27:28 PM,Serialize complete at 07/14/99 12:27:28 PM,Itemize by SMTP Server on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999)at 07/14/9912:27:28 PM,Serialize by Router on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999) at07/14/9912:27:55 PM,Serialize complete at 07/14/99 12:27:55 PM,Itemize by SMTP Server on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999)at 07/14/9912:27:55 PM,Serialize by Router on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999) at07/14/9912:28:22 PM,Serialize complete at 07/14/99 12:28:22 PM,Itemize by SMTP Server on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999)at 07/14/9912:28:23 PM,Serialize by Router on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999) at07/14/9912:28:53 PM,Serialize complete at 07/14/99 12:28:53 PM,Itemize by SMTP Server on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999)at 07/14/9912:28:54 PM,Serialize by Router on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999) at07/14/9912:29:20 PM,Serialize complete at 07/14/99 12:29:20 PM,Itemize by SMTP Server on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999)at 07/14/9912:29:20 PM,Serialize by Router on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999) at07/14/9912:29:39 PM,Serialize complete at 07/14/99 12:29:39 PM,Itemize by SMTP Server on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999)at 07/14/9912:29:40 PM,Serialize by Router on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999) at07/14/9912:30:00 PM,Serialize complete at 07/14/99 12:30:00 PM,Itemize by SMTP Server on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999)at 07/14/9912:30:00 PM,Serialize by Router on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999) at07/14/9912:31:15 PM,Serialize complete at 07/14/99 12:31:15 PM Doesn't Alden Tool have Stanleys in the $28 range? Their contact info isonJerry's website.-Ed "CHRISTOPHER C cc:Sent by: Subject: RE: Planesowner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu 07/14/99 11:42 AMPlease respond tomcdowellc Greg, I bought a new Stanley 9 1/2 (12-020) through a local home improvementstore for $38.00. They had to order it since they have a limited selectionin stock and this is a more specialized plane. Others may have opinions onwhether new Stanley's are as true etc. as the old Stanley's. I don't havean opinion on that. My guess is that decent older ones are at least asexpensive as new ones, due to the collector influences on market value. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Wed Jul 14 15:55:15 1999 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id PAA26615 for (8.8.4/8.6.8) withSMTP id PAA17960 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 Subject: Grayrock rod reports? I don't recall seeing reports from the Grayrock '99 gang on the great old (or new) rods that made an appearance. Who wants to go first?......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from jwflyrod@jwflyrods.com Thu Jul 15 01:06:31 1999 (may be forged)) (SMTPD32-5.05) id A9D33C000F6; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 23:04:03 -0700 Subject: Beveler & Binder boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BECE4D.E8CFF8E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BECE4D.E8CFF8E0 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BECE4D.E8CFF8E0 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BECE4D.E8CFF8E0-- from darrelll@earthlink.net Thu Jul 15 14:54:06 1999 Subject: Shakespeare New Gypsy #1231 7.5' 2/2 By Heddon boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0150_01BECEC1.192333E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0150_01BECEC1.192333E0 Hello all, I just got in this rod and I'm a bit puzzled... (nothing new) This rod =has Super Z ferrules so the ferrule size doesn't match Sinclair's book. =So I'm wondering if the rod restorer who restored this rod a couple of =years ago replaced the ferrules or if it's possible that these were =original equipment. It's obviously Heddon's 0 3/4F taper for the Featherweight as I have two =other Featherweights but I've never seen any Heddon with a super Z = Has anyone seen any Heddons with Super Z's??? Thanks Darrell ------=_NextPart_000_0150_01BECEC1.192333E0 Hello all, I just got in this rod and I'm a bit= (nothing new) This rod has Super Z ferrules so the ferrule size doesn't = Sinclair's book. So I'm wondering if the rod restorer who restored this = couple of years ago replaced the ferrules or if it's possible that these = original equipment. It's obviously Heddon's 0 3/4Ftaper = Featherweight as I have two other Featherweights but I've never seen any= with a super Z ferrule. Has anyone seen any Heddons with= Z's??? Thanks Darrell ------=_NextPart_000_0150_01BECEC1.192333E0-- from knut@tuam.net Thu Jul 15 16:59:32 1999 0000 Subject: new to rodmaiking (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Subject: new to rodmaiking hi i am new to bamboo rods and i am in usa right now perhaps there is arodmaker in the syracuse are who would like to meet me cu Knut from djk762@hotmail.com Thu Jul 15 18:02:40 1999 Thu, 15 Jul 1999 16:02:08 PDT Subject: Re:Re:Steelhead Taper Ian- Thanks for the info on the Dickerson. I do have Howell's book. I have heard nothing but good about Dickerson rods in general and the GuideSpecial in particular. I think I will build one and continue to look for an 8'6" - 8wt. Dickerson or Granger taper. I think the Para's are a bit further down the road. Thanks, David Kashuba _______________________________________________________________Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com from Nodewrrior@aol.com Fri Jul 16 00:11:59 1999 Subject: Quiet list eh? This is actually a test, I think aol may be acting up...If you're still reading this, i caught a bass today all of 12"-chartreuse deer hair slider. Hoffhines from jf_gray@ix.netcom.com Fri Jul 16 00:16:04 1999 00:15:31 -0500 ix6.ix.netcom.com viasmap (V1.3) Subject: Testing! Netcom/Mindspring E-mail has been down for two days and I would like tosee if they have restored it yet. from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Fri Jul 16 03:33:30 1999 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id UAA22488; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 20:32:37 +1200 Subject: Re: Quiet list eh? It sure is quiet. I went out today in the fizz boat for the opening of thescallop season , and got the limit of 150 in the first haul . I am putting some in the freezer for the Great Southern Garthering later inthe year .. Ian Kearney At 12:46 AM 16/07/99 EDT, Nodewrrior@aol.com wrote:This is actually a test, I think aol may be acting up...If you're still reading this, i caught a bass today all of 12"-chartreuse deer hair slider. Hoffhines from dickay@alltel.net Fri Jul 16 05:57:13 1999 FAA12703 Subject: Slow List - Test boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01BECF4F.81E224C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BECF4F.81E224C0 Rob, Jeremy, IanYea, the list is slow! Everybody must be on vacation "Fly Fishing". =But you are coming through loud and clear.Dick Fuhrman ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BECF4F.81E224C0 Rob, Jeremy, Ian Dick Fuhrman ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BECF4F.81E224C0-- from dmanders@telusplanet.net Fri Jul 16 08:54:01 1999 don") bysmtp2.telusplanet.net with SMTP id ; Fri, 16 Jul 199907:54:24 -0600 Subject: Para rods and other hinged designs Too all, Just got back from my annual "walkbout" in southern Alberta were thewindis always an issue and the rainbows and cuts are plentiful.After building linear tapers for a number of years, I've fallen to thesiren call of the para design. God, will it cast - 2 line weights - heavyflies - all the good things but does it give your arm a work out. Revertedto one of my old and tired tapers for the last afternoon. Was a pleasure -struck me like dating an experienced girl - all silk and finery unlike thepara things where just keeping up to them reminded me of my teenageyouth.So for us old farts - the paras are fun - but like an affair - it shouldend before you get hurt. Back to the linear tapers. Don from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Fri Jul 16 13:42:53 1999 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id GAA12968 for ;Sat, 17 Jul 199906:42:07 +1200 Subject: Hardy , CC De France I picked up a very good condition 9'6" Hardy CC De France rod during theweek . It is much lighter then the traditional English rods . The rod wasmade in the early 1960's . Does any one have an idea of the weight of linethese were designed for ? I can post the taper once i get around to measuring it if anyone isinterested . regards Ian Kearney from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Fri Jul 16 15:13:58 1999 13:17:07 PDT Subject: RE: Hardy , CC De France Ian, I once handled an 8' - 5 wt. Hardy Phantom "Hollokona". I later found out that Hollokona was a hollow built version of the Palokona (sp) trademark. This rod also seemed light in weight for an 8' rod. Perhaps your C.C. deFrance is one of the hollow built Hardy's? Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from Craig.Naldrett@ibm.net Fri Jul 16 16:44:52 1999 out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA31308; Fri, 16 Jul 199921:44:42 GMT Subject: Re: Hardy , CC De France Ian, there is an 8" 5wt CC in the Classic Tapers Archive, posted by JohnCooper, I believe he's in the UK, maybe if you can track him down he canhelp you out re these rods.Oh yea, had any more thoughts on local wood for reelseats?CheersCraig from johanyga@online.no Fri Jul 16 17:40:25 1999 Sat, 17 Jul 1999 00:40:17 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: SV: Hardy , CC De France Ian, I have got two C.C.de France rods, one 8 ft three piece, and one 9 ft twopiece. The ca. 1970 8 ft is not especially light, but the 9 ft rod islight compared to most English rods I presume. The 8 ft is for a DT 5 andthe 9 ft is designed for a DT 6. After consulting my Hardy catalogs from 1932 and 1953, it looks as theserods were primarely designed for competition casting. They are notmentioned in the 1963 catalog, and I have yet to see a 9'6'' in some of myother Hardy catalogs. I don't think they were hollow built. I once owned an 8'0'' Hollokona, andpresently I have a 9 ft Hollolight and I think Hardy always used the prefix"Hollo" on their hollowbuilt rods.I suppose the 9 ' 6'' were designed for a DT 7 line. regards Johan Nygaardsvold Ian Kearney Til: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduEmne: Hardy , CC De France I picked up a very good condition 9'6" Hardy CC De France rod during theweek . It is much lighter then the traditional English rods . The rod wasmade in the early 1960's . Does any one have an idea of the weight oflinethese were designed for ? I can post the taper once i get around to measuring it if anyone isinterested . regards Ian Kearney from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Jul 16 18:50:06 1999 Subject: Re: Para rods and other hinged designs In a message dated 7/16/99 6:58:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time, dmanders@telusplanet.net writes: Sounds like you had a great time. I'll be leaving for Prince Edward Island in a few weeks. Going for two weeks,am planing on doing some fishing there for sea run brook trout. Went there two years ago, caught a lot of trout andhad a great time. We all need our "walkabout" now and then Dave L. from chris@artistree.com Fri Jul 16 21:45:35 1999 Subject: Re: SV: Hardy , CC De France Well...one sure way to find out is to have someone x-ray it for you. :)-- Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com BTW - my 8.6 Palakona casts a DT 6 perfectly. Johan Nygördvold wrote:....I don't think they were hollow built. I once owned an 8'0''Hollokona, and presently I have a 9 ft Hollolight and I think Hardyalways used the prefix "Hollo" on their hollowbuilt rods. from angelruten@smile.ch Sat Jul 17 07:55:02 1999 (MET DST) Subject: greenheart source Any known greenheart rodmaker(s) or where i can get this stuff(greenheart) for self-rodmaking? Preferably Europe. Thanks f. all answers Stefan -- ---------------------------------------------------------------Sicherheits-Hinweis: Diese elektronische Post ist nur fèr den oder die Empf€nger, welchein der Adress-Zeile genannt werden bestimmt!Falls Sie nicht zu diesen gehåren, verståsst jede- unerlaubte Kopie,- unerlaubte Weiterleitung,- unerlaubte Kenntnisnahme, auch vermutlich oeffentlicher Inhalte,- und unerlaubte Verbreitung der enthaltenen Nachricht(en),sowie jeder anderer unautorisierte Gebrauch gegen geltendes Recht. Falls Sie nicht zu den in der Adresszeile genannten Empf€nger(n)gehåren,so bitten wir Sie um Kontaktnahme des Absenders und Zerstårungder betreffenden Daten von Ihrem Computer._________________________________________ Security-Note: The information transmitted is intended only for the personor entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidentialand/or privileged material.Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, ortaking of any action in reliance upon, this information bypersons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.If you received this in error, please contact the sender and deletethe material from any computer. from sjstill@iquest.net Sat Jul 17 12:03:25 1999 0000 (209.43.55.204) Subject: Uslan blank fs Hi All, I have (what is supposed to be) an Uslan 5 strip blank for sale. It is 7'2/1, 4 or 5 wt. Still has some string attatched! Anyone interested,contact me atThis is just the glued-up cane, no ferrules on it yetor anything like that. It is a dandy, I just don't have the time:-(( Steve Steve and Julie StillabowerIndianapolis, IN ICQ 19299644 ******updated 5-13-99****** from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Sat Jul 17 17:53:03 1999 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id KAA14555; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 10:52:06 +1200 Subject: Re: SV: Hardy , CC De France Johan, Chris, Craig, Thanks for the help. One of the problems with this means of communication is that unlessmattersare stated precisely then it is easy to mislead people. By "light" Iactually meant lightly built , which means the diameter of the rod waslessat the butt then traditional British rods. As a generalisation it seems tome that traditionally British rods tend to be longer and heavier ( iethicker at the butt) then a number of USA rodmakers output. ( I believethiswas disrespectfully called " clubby" by americians for much of the century) I also vaguely recall reading somewhere that the CC de France , which wasaspecial taper built for the Casting Club of France ,may have originallybeen built for a casting competition in the early 1900's. My guess , only from looking at the rod , is that the design is much more towards aparabolic taper. Given recent comments about parabolics , and Johan'scomment that his catalogues suggest these were for competition casting ,itall starts to add up. I have also checked the rod length ( by measuring with a tape !) as i couldfind no references to a 9'6" cc de france. Contary to the advice I was given this is a weight 6 as per your advise Johan. The rod number puts it as a1959 made rod. Thanks to all for the help . regards Ian Kearney At 12:38 AM 17/07/99 +0200, Johan Nygördvold wrote:Ian, I have got two C.C.de France rods, one 8 ft three piece, and one 9 ft twopiece. The ca. 1970 8 ft is not especially light, but the 9 ft rod islight compared to most English rods I presume. The 8 ft is for a DT 5 andthe 9 ft is designed for a DT 6. After consulting my Hardy catalogs from 1932 and 1953, it looks astheserods were primarely designed for competition casting. They are notmentioned in the 1963 catalog, and I have yet to see a 9'6'' in some of myother Hardy catalogs. I don't think they were hollow built. I once owned an 8'0'' Hollokona, andpresently I have a 9 ft Hollolight and I think Hardy always used the prefix"Hollo" on their hollowbuilt rods.I suppose the 9 ' 6'' were designed for a DT 7 line. regards Johan Nygaardsvold from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Sat Jul 17 17:53:06 1999 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id KAA14560; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 10:52:11 +1200 Subject: Re: Hardy , CC De France Craig, I have had quite a few thoughts , but unfortunately been a little too busyto do anything about them. I am still in the process of acquiring a lathe, and attending night classesto learn how to use a lathe ( but have missed half of them due to beingaway) . It is definately a " later in the year" project . regards Ian Kearney At 03:46 PM 16/07/99 -0600, Craig Naldrett wrote:Ian, there is an 8" 5wt CC in the Classic Tapers Archive, posted by JohnCooper, I believe he's in the UK, maybe if you can track him down he canhelp you out re these rods.Oh yea, had any more thoughts on local wood for reelseats?CheersCraig from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Jul 18 07:51:35 1999 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: SV: Hardy , CC De France British, and I think other European fly fishermen have traditionally castfromthe river bank and required rods that could handle long casts and mends.Americans, on the other hand like to get among the fish by wading out andcasting short lines.Western USA anglers choose longer rods because of conditions.It has been a matter of choosing the right tool for the job.T. Ackland Ian Kearney wrote: Johan, Chris, Craig, Thanks for the help. One of the problems with this means of communication is that unlessmattersare stated precisely then it is easy to mislead people. By "light" Iactually meant lightly built , which means the diameter of the rod waslessat the butt then traditional British rods. As a generalisation it seems tome that traditionally British rods tend to be longer and heavier ( iethicker at the butt) then a number of USA rodmakers output. ( I believethiswas disrespectfully called " clubby" by americians for much of thecentury ) I also vaguely recall reading somewhere that the CC de France , whichwas aspecial taper built for the Casting Club of France ,may have originallybeen built for a casting competition in the early 1900's. My guess , only from looking at the rod , is that the design is much more towards aparabolic taper. Given recent comments about parabolics , and Johan'scomment that his catalogues suggest these were for competition casting, itall starts to add up. I have also checked the rod length ( by measuring with a tape !) as i couldfind no references to a 9'6" cc de france. Contary to the advice I wasgiven this is a weight 6 as per your advise Johan. The rod number puts it as a1959 made rod. Thanks to all for the help . regards Ian Kearney At 12:38 AM 17/07/99 +0200, Johan Nygördvold wrote:Ian, I have got two C.C.de France rods, one 8 ft three piece, and one 9 ft twopiece. The ca. 1970 8 ft is not especially light, but the 9 ft rod islight compared to most English rods I presume. The 8 ft is for a DT 5andthe 9 ft is designed for a DT 6.After consulting my Hardy catalogs from 1932 and 1953, it looks astheserods were primarely designed for competition casting. They are notmentioned in the 1963 catalog, and I have yet to see a 9'6'' in some ofmyother Hardy catalogs.I don't think they were hollow built. I once owned an 8'0'' Hollokona, andpresently I have a 9 ft Hollolight and I think Hardy always used theprefix"Hollo" on their hollowbuilt rods.I suppose the 9 ' 6'' were designed for a DT 7 line. regards Johan Nygaardsvold from teekay35@interlynx.net Sun Jul 18 11:16:26 1999 Subject: Re: SV: Hardy , CC De France I have a 7' 0", and an 8' 0" CC de France rod. Like both very much. I'veadapted the taper to an 8' 0", #7 line model that I use for lightsteelhead. The rod is best described as "parabolic" and everyone who hascast it likes the action and power. I also have about 18" of the butt and grip of a L.R.H. Dry Fly rod, allthat remained after an acquaintence's girl friend snapped the rod intosmall pieces and threw it out along with the rest of his goods. Itsinteresting because the bamboo exterier consists of thin layers laminatedto a soft wood core. I never did see the rest of the pieces, so do notknow how far the core extended or whether it was hollow built at anypointalong the length. ----------From: TERENCE ACKLAND Cc: Johan Nygördvold ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: SV: Hardy , CC De FranceDate: Sunday, July 18, 1999 8:54 AM British, and I think other European fly fishermen have traditionallycast fromthe river bank and required rods that could handle long casts and mends.Americans, on the other hand like to get among the fish by wading outandcasting short lines.Western USA anglers choose longer rods because of conditions.It has been a matter of choosing the right tool for the job.T. Ackland Ian Kearney wrote: Johan, Chris, Craig, Thanks for the help. One of the problems with this means of communication is that unlessmattersare stated precisely then it is easy to mislead people. By "light" Iactually meant lightly built , which means the diameter of the rod waslessat the butt then traditional British rods. As a generalisation it seemstome that traditionally British rods tend to be longer and heavier ( iethicker at the butt) then a number of USA rodmakers output. ( I believethiswas disrespectfully called " clubby" by americians for much of thecentury ) I also vaguely recall reading somewhere that the CC de France , whichwas aspecial taper built for the Casting Club of France ,may have originallybeen built for a casting competition in the early 1900's. My guess ,only from looking at the rod , is that the design is much more towards aparabolic taper. Given recent comments about parabolics , and Johan'scomment that his catalogues suggest these were for competitioncasting, itall starts to add up. I have also checked the rod length ( by measuring with a tape !) as icouldfind no references to a 9'6" cc de france. Contary to the advice I wasgiven thatthis is a weight 6 as per your advise Johan. The rod number puts it asa1959 made rod. Thanks to all for the help . regards Ian Kearney At 12:38 AM 17/07/99 +0200, Johan Nygördvold wrote:Ian, I have got two C.C.de France rods, one 8 ft three piece, and one 9 fttwopiece. The ca. 1970 8 ft is not especially light, but the 9 ft rod islight compared to most English rods I presume. The 8 ft is for a DT 5andthe 9 ft is designed for a DT 6.After consulting my Hardy catalogs from 1932 and 1953, it looks astheserods were primarely designed for competition casting. They are notmentioned in the 1963 catalog, and I have yet to see a 9'6'' in someof myother Hardy catalogs.I don't think they were hollow built. I once owned an 8'0'' Hollokona,andpresently I have a 9 ft Hollolight and I think Hardy always used theprefix"Hollo" on their hollowbuilt rods.I suppose the 9 ' 6'' were designed for a DT 7 line. regards Johan Nygaardsvold from bjust@bellsouth.net Sun Jul 18 20:11:30 1999 VAA08295 Subject: Re: Planes If you have a Lowe's around, I got a new 9 1/2 from them for about$30.00. Brian Justiss from bjust@bellsouth.net Sun Jul 18 20:17:08 1999 VAA06547 Subject: Re: Gatlinburg/ FFF conclave I didn't know there was going to be a bamboo symposium. Any informationwould be greatly appreciated. I don't know if I can make it to theSouthern Gathering later in the year and Gatlinburg is close enough tomake it a weekend trip. Thanks, Brian Justiss from rmoon@ida.net Mon Jul 19 08:38:57 1999 0000 Subject: Re: Gatlinburg/ FFF conclave Check with Chuck Traylor at "straylor@bellsouth.net" for information. Ralph Moon from mschaffer@mindspring.com Mon Jul 19 09:37:15 1999 Subject: Continuing saga of Chopstick Man. Just thought I would like to let everyone who has been so helpful in on myprogress (or lack thereof).This past sunday was one of those days when everything just 'clicked'.Wentout to the shop about 6AM to begin the final planing on the six strips forthe rod butt section (this will be a 3 pc. rod). I already had the planingform set to correct dimensions. I started in with the Stanley which I hadmilled a .009 groove into the sole of. Bingo, right to the mark first timeout --no ragged edges, splits, or broken tips!! I took all 6 strips downwith the Stanley first (stopping to resharpen once), then on to the LN withthe flat sole. Again, things went like clockwork. Finally, to the scraper Now, don't get me wrong, a couple of my measurements aren't exactlyright onthe money, but the lack of hassle, and how well everything progressed wastruly amazing! It took me about 2-3 hours to do the above, but consideringthe recent beginner hassles, it progressed as if I was flying through theplaning! I guess paying attention, and having sharp plane blades really doeshelp! (G)This morning about 5:30AM I went back to the shop to see if my luck fromyesterday held. I was able to get 6 strips through the Stanley plane inabout1 hour--so, my luck held out!! (VVBG)You guys will just have to excuse my gabbing, but yesterday and thismorninghave been my best days so far since I started trying to make a cane rod.BTW- I talked with an acquaintance the other day, and of course theconversation came around to me and my cane rod attempt. As I told myfriend,until you've been involved in making one, you really have no idea howdifficult it is to make a cane rod, but if you do decide to make one, you'llknow why the cane rods cost what they do, and likewise be surprised thatthey don't cost even more!!!That's it from this end---have a fun one, Mike Doc (Mike Shaffer)(mschaffer@mindspring.com) from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Jul 19 09:44:48 1999 Mon, 19 Jul 1999 22:43:29 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: Continuing saga of Chopstick Man. Mike,stay keen as mustard and you'll have a hoby you'll enjoy for life. Tony On Mon, 19 Jul 1999, michael w. shaffer wrote: Just thought I would like to let everyone who has been so helpful in onmyprogress (or lack thereof).This past sunday was one of those days when everything just 'clicked'.Wentout to the shop about 6AM to begin the final planing on the six strips forthe rod butt section (this will be a 3 pc. rod). I already had the planingform set to correct dimensions. I started in with the Stanley which I hadmilled a .009 groove into the sole of. Bingo, right to the mark first timeout --no ragged edges, splits, or broken tips!! I took all 6 strips downwith the Stanley first (stopping to resharpen once), then on to the LNwiththe flat sole. Again, things went like clockwork. Finally, to the scraper Now, don't get me wrong, a couple of my measurements aren't exactlyright onthe money, but the lack of hassle, and how well everything progressedwastruly amazing! It took me about 2-3 hours to do the above, butconsideringthe recent beginner hassles, it progressed as if I was flying through theplaning! I guess paying attention, and having sharp plane blades reallydoeshelp! (G)This morning about 5:30AM I went back to the shop to see if my luckfromyesterday held. I was able to get 6 strips through the Stanley plane inabout1 hour--so, my luck held out!! (VVBG)You guys will just have to excuse my gabbing, but yesterday and thismorninghave been my best days so far since I started trying to make a cane rod.BTW- I talked with an acquaintance the other day, and of course theconversation came around to me and my cane rod attempt. As I told myfriend,until you've been involved in making one, you really have no idea howdifficult it is to make a cane rod, but if you do decide to make one, you'llknow why the cane rods cost what they do, and likewise be surprisedthatthey don't cost even more!!!That's it from this end---have a fun one, Mike Doc (Mike Shaffer)(mschaffer@mindspring.com) /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from gholland@navsys.com Mon Jul 19 10:55:05 1999 Subject: More on Planes Thanks for all of the feedback on the prices of planes, etc... Now, I have some questions about planing itself...Do you use differentplanes for different jobs (initial roughing, intial tapering, final planing,etc...)? If so, which planes? If you use one plane for all planing, whichone and why? Thanks! Greg Hollandgholland@navsys.com from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Jul 19 11:32:05 1999 Mon, 19 Jul 1999 11:34:15 -0500 Subject: Re: More on Planes In due respect for all that can afford several planes and the high pricesthatgo with them. I sometimes think this will scare someone off in gettingstartedas it almost did me.I have found three planes at different flea markets and yard sales atdifferenttimes. I got two 9 1/2 and a 9 1/4. The 9 1/2 planes cost me 5 and 6dollarsand the 9 1/4 cost me 7.00. These planes do fine but my favorite plane isonethat I bought from Sears Roebuck in the late 40s. I can do the final planingoftwo butt sections before it needs to be sharpened. Had I known this Iwould nothave looked for the others as I felt I had to have them due to everything Ihadread. I fooled around for nine years but am making up for it now. Aftercompleting my first rod three weeks ago I got really going with it. Idecided togive them as Christmas gifts to my sons and fishing friends.I have seven butt sections glued up and am starting on the tip sections.Thisdoes not make me an expert, not by any means. I guess the point I amtrying tomake is, rods can still be made with what you have. Now if I can only findsomereasonably priced ferrules.I am having a blast.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Greg Holland wrote: Thanks for all of the feedback on the prices of planes, etc... Now, I have some questions about planing itself...Do you use differentplanes for different jobs (initial roughing, intial tapering, final planing,etc...)? If so, which planes? If you use one plane for all planing, whichone and why? Thanks! Greg Hollandgholland@navsys.com from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Jul 19 14:00:04 1999 Tue, 20 Jul 1999 02:59:50 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: More on Planes Only if you've already got them and you feel like using them all otherwiseuse the 9-1/2 from go to whoa, though a scraping plane to finish the last whisper does make for a better glueline. Everybody says this so I may as well say it too but keeping the plane ironsharp is right up there with the actual plane selection itself.It's worth taking the time to experiment with the relationship betweenthedepth of cut and the width of the opening of the throat. Deep cuts need awide opening, shallow cuts require a narrow opening if you want to reducetearing of the cane. This is because as the plane iron cuts the cane thesliver of cane wants to lift up along it's length but the throat openingbreaks the fibers as the cane enters the throat of the plane. If you takea shallow cut with awide opening the sliver will enter the plane further before it's fibersare broken and you'll wind up with tears. The angle the plane iron isset has much to do with this lifting and the 9-1/2 is seen as the best although the 60-1/2 will also work but needs closer attention to thewidth of the throat opening as it's angle of attack is lower.I have one of each and find myself using which ever one is handy at thetime (meaning, I hate to admit whichever is sharpest before doing theinevitable and actually sharpening the iron) Tony On Mon, 19 Jul 1999, Greg Holland wrote: Thanks for all of the feedback on the prices of planes, etc... Now, I have some questions about planing itself...Do you use differentplanes for different jobs (initial roughing, intial tapering, final planing,etc...)? If so, which planes? If you use one plane for all planing, whichone and why? Thanks! Greg Hollandgholland@navsys.com /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Jul 19 14:03:28 1999 Tue, 20 Jul 1999 03:02:05 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Johan_Nyg=E5rdvold?= ,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: SV: Hardy , CC De France wugate.wustl.edu id OAA20029 Sounds like your friend didn't buy his girlfriend a lathe or bindingmachine in time. It's best if you keep the women folk involved ;-) Tony On Sun, 18 Jul 1999, Ted Knott wrote: I also have about 18" of the butt and grip of a L.R.H. Dry Fly rod, allthat remained after an acquaintence's girl friend snapped the rod intosmall pieces and threw it out along with the rest of his goods. Itsinteresting because the bamboo exterier consists of thin layerslaminatedto a soft wood core. I never did see the rest of the pieces, so do notknow how far the core extended or whether it was hollow built at anypointalong the length. ----------From: TERENCE ACKLAND Cc: Johan Nygördvold ;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: SV: Hardy , CC De FranceDate: Sunday, July 18, 1999 8:54 AM British, and I think other European fly fishermen have traditionallycast fromthe river bank and required rods that could handle long casts andmends.Americans, on the other hand like to get among the fish by wading outandcasting short lines.Western USA anglers choose longer rods because of conditions.It has been a matter of choosing the right tool for the job.T. Ackland Ian Kearney wrote: Johan, Chris, Craig, Thanks for the help. One of the problems with this means of communication is that unlessmattersare stated precisely then it is easy to mislead people. By "light" Iactually meant lightly built , which means the diameter of the rodwaslessat the butt then traditional British rods. As a generalisation it seemstome that traditionally British rods tend to be longer and heavier ( iethicker at the butt) then a number of USA rodmakers output. ( Ibelievethiswas disrespectfully called " clubby" by americians for much of thecentury ) I also vaguely recall reading somewhere that the CC de France , whichwas aspecial taper built for the Casting Club of France ,may have originallybeen built for a casting competition in the early 1900's. My guess ,only from looking at the rod , is that the design is much more towards aparabolic taper. Given recent comments about parabolics , and Johan'scomment that his catalogues suggest these were for competitioncasting, itall starts to add up. I have also checked the rod length ( by measuring with a tape !) as icouldfind no references to a 9'6" cc de france. Contary to the advice I wasgiven thatthis is a weight 6 as per your advise Johan. The rod number puts it asa1959 made rod. Thanks to all for the help . regards Ian Kearney At 12:38 AM 17/07/99 +0200, Johan Nygördvold wrote:Ian, I have got two C.C.de France rods, one 8 ft three piece, and one 9 fttwopiece. The ca. 1970 8 ft is not especially light, but the 9 ft rod islight compared to most English rods I presume. The 8 ft is for a DT 5andthe 9 ft is designed for a DT 6.After consulting my Hardy catalogs from 1932 and 1953, it looks astheserods were primarely designed for competition casting. They are notmentioned in the 1963 catalog, and I have yet to see a 9'6'' in someof myother Hardy catalogs.I don't think they were hollow built. I once owned an 8'0'' Hollokona,andpresently I have a 9 ft Hollolight and I think Hardy always used theprefix"Hollo" on their hollowbuilt rods.I suppose the 9 ' 6'' were designed for a DT 7 line. regards Johan Nygaardsvold /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Mon Jul 19 17:42:15 1999 Subject: Finish I'm wondering if any one can help me with finish on silk wraps. I wouldlike to get a very smooth glass like result, is there a way to buff or rub the varnish to achieve this effectthanks Joe from djk762@hotmail.com Mon Jul 19 19:10:07 1999 Mon, 19 Jul 1999 17:09:35 PDT Subject: Re: More on planes Greg, I have a Stanley 110 and a Millers Falls No-75-01-B. Both werepurchased at yard sales for a couple of bucks each. I use them for rough planning. I also have two Stanley 9 1/2's and a Stanley 60 1/2, all bought used. TheseI use with a Lie Nielson scraper for final dimensions.I like the change in grip a variety of planes offer; plus they look cool. I can see myself having a large collection of block planes by the time I'm a bonifide old fart. David KashubaFair Oaks CA. _______________________________________________________________Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Jul 19 19:37:03 1999 Subject: Re: Finish In a message dated 7/19/99 3:45:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Eastkoyfly@aol.com writes: Joe,I use marine spar varnish on my wraps. I put onsix to eight coats of thinned varnish. After around the forthcoat, I very carefully wet sand the varnish with 1,000 gritwet/dry sand paper, after it has dried for 24 hours. Then Ikeep applying more coats and wet sanding each one after they have dried for at least 24 hours. The final coat is applied verycarefully, making sure there is no dust, etc. The last coat isleft as is, without wet sanding or rubbing out. It comes outlike glass. Dave L. from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Mon Jul 19 19:41:36 1999 (5.5.2448.0) "'RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu'" Subject: RE: More on Planes Greg, I use a Record 9 1/2 from start to finish and, so far, everything hasworkedout fine on two rods, which is my total output so far. Both of these rodsare glued up with Resourcinol and the glue lines are still all butinvisible. If I buy any more planes it will be because I'm greedy and Ilike to have them, not because I really need them. There!! I've admittedit. I just love getting my hands on all this cane paraphernalia. Once youstart, it rapidly becomes a very slippery slope. Good luck Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: More on Planes Thanks for all of the feedback on the prices of planes, etc... Now, I have some questions about planing itself...Do you use differentplanes for different jobs (initial roughing, intial tapering, final planing,etc...)? If so, which planes? If you use one plane for all planing, whichone and why? Thanks! Greg Hollandgholland@navsys.com from HARMS1@prodigy.net Mon Jul 19 20:00:31 1999 Mon, 19 Jul 1999 21:00:07 -0400 "'RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu'" Subject: Re: More on Planes boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0052_01BED229.7F77C3C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01BED229.7F77C3C0 Greg, I use one Stanley 9 1/2 plane for "hogging-off" the wood and squaring-up =the sticks, another finer Stanley 9 1/2 for establishing the bevel, but =then for the real precision work, I switch to my little Lie-Nielson =block plane. This plane is lighter and smaller than the clunky Stanley, =and allows the fine feel I need for getting my strips just perfect. cheers, Bill-----Original Message-----From: Roberts, Michael 'RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu' Date: Monday, July 19, 1999 5:45 PMSubject: RE: More on Planes Greg, I use a Record 9 1/2 from start to finish and, so far, everything =has workedout fine on two rods, which is my total output so far. Both of =these rodsare glued up with Resourcinol and the glue lines are still all butinvisible. If I buy any more planes it will be because I'm greedy =and Ilike to have them, not because I really need them. There!! I've =admittedit. I just love getting my hands on all this cane paraphernalia. =Once youstart, it rapidly becomes a very slippery slope. Good luck Mike -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, 19 July 1999 23:57 Subject: More on Planes Thanks for all of the feedback on the prices of planes, etc... Now, I have some questions about planing itself...Do you use =differentplanes for different jobs (initial roughing, intial tapering, final =planing,etc...)? If so, which planes? If you use one plane for all =planing, whichone and why? Thanks! Greg Hollandgholland@navsys.com ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01BED229.7F77C3C0 Greg, I use one Stanley9 = "hogging-off" the wood and squaring-up the sticks, another = Stanley 9 1/2 for establishing the bevel, but then for the real = smaller than the clunky Stanley, and allows the fine feel I need for = strips just perfect. Bill -----Original = Roberts, Michael <Michael.Roberts@health.w= 'gholland@navsys.com' 'RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu'= <RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= PlanesGreg,I use a Record 9 1/2 from = finish and, so far, everything has workedout fine on two rods, = buy any more planes it will be because I'm greedy and Ilike to = luckMike-----Original Message-----From: = More on PlanesThanks for all of the feedback on the = planes, etc...Now, I have some questions about planing = you use differentplanes for different jobs (initial roughing, = why?Thanks!Greg Hollandgholland@navsys.com ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01BED229.7F77C3C0-- from Canerods@aol.com Mon Jul 19 20:03:13 1999 Subject: Brock's of Bishop, CA fishing report All, rodmakers clave at/near Bishop, CA -- Brock's FF shop in "downtown" Bishop has a list-serv that sends out a report of the local (Bishop area) fishing conditions. I can send a copy of the latest report to anyone interested and might want to subscribe. Brock's might be a good place to pick-up a CA license, however they haveno cane rod stuff. (anyone interested in changing that?) Don Burns PS - Not affilated with Brock's in any way. from darrelll@earthlink.net Mon Jul 19 20:25:29 1999 Subject: Re: Brock's of Bishop, CA fishing report I agree, they need some cane... they are quite knowledgeable and friendly... It's been quite for a long time on the Western Front... have we set a firmdate? Darrell L-----Original Message----- Subject: Brock's of Bishop, CA fishing report All, rodmakersclave at/near Bishop, CA -- Brock's FF shop in "downtown" Bishop has alist-serv that sends out a report of the local (Bishop area) fishingconditions. I can send a copy of the latest report to anyone interested andmight want to subscribe. Brock's might be a good place to pick-up a CA license, however they havenocane rod stuff. (anyone interested in changing that?) Don Burns PS - Not affilated with Brock's in any way. from rambo2_98@yahoo.com Mon Jul 19 20:40:48 1999 1999 21:42:14 EDT Subject: Re: More on Planes Everyone seems to find just that right combinationthat works for them. I use a 19th century Stanley 91/2 until I get to within 20-30 thousands, then Iswitch to my Lie-Neilsen 9 1/2 because it's heavierand rides smoother than the Stanley. I don't use ascraper, but have tried them and don't really likethem. In the end, if the glue lines can't be seen andit mics "close" to your taper goals, you've done itright. --- WILLIAM A HARMS wrote:Greg, I use one Stanley 9 1/2 plane for "hogging-off" thewood and squaring-up the sticks, another finerStanley 9 1/2 for establishing the bevel, but then Lie-Nielson block plane. This plane is lighter andsmaller than the clunky Stanley, and allows the finefeel I need for getting my strips just perfect. cheers, Bill-----Original Message-----From: Roberts, Michael 'RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu' Date: Monday, July 19, 1999 5:45 PMSubject: RE: More on Planes Greg, I use a Record 9 1/2 from start to finish and,so far, everything has workedout fine on two rods, which is my total outputso far. Both of these rodsare glued up with Resourcinol and the glue linesare still all butinvisible. If I buy any more planes it will bebecause I'm greedy and Ilike to have them, not because I really needthem. There!! I've admittedit. I just love getting my hands on all thiscane paraphernalia. Once youstart, it rapidly becomes a very slippery slope. Good luck Mike -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, 19 July 1999 23:57 Subject: More on Planes Thanks for all of the feedback on the prices ofplanes, etc... Now, I have some questions about planingitself...Do you use differentplanes for different jobs (initial roughing,intial tapering, final planing,etc...)? If so, which planes? If you use oneplane for all planing, whichone and why? Thanks! Greg Hollandgholland@navsys.com _________________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from DBurrill@telehub.net Tue Jul 20 01:21:32 1999 RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Finish Dave,Specifically which spar varnish do you use and how much do you thinit? I've had trouble getting it right. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Finish In a message dated 7/19/99 3:45:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Eastkoyfly@aol.com writes: Joe,I use marine spar varnish on my wraps. I put onsix to eight coats of thinned varnish. After around the forthcoat, I very carefully wet sand the varnish with 1,000 gritwet/dry sand paper, after it has dried for 24 hours. Then Ikeep applying more coats and wet sanding each one after they have dried for at least 24 hours. The final coat is applied verycarefully, making sure there is no dust, etc. The last coat isleft as is, without wet sanding or rubbing out. It comes outlike glass. Dave L. from sniderja@email.uc.edu Tue Jul 20 05:52:53 1999 RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Finish I can attest to Dave LeClair's wrap coating technique. It really works!Thanks again, Dave.J. Snider.At 08:35 PM 7/19/99 -0400, LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 7/19/99 3:45:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Eastkoyfly@aol.com writes: I'm wondering if any one can help me with finish on silk wraps. I wouldlike to get a very smooth glass like result, is there a way to buff or rub the varnish to achieve this effectthanks Joe Joe,I use marine spar varnish on my wraps. I put onsix to eight coats of thinned varnish. After around the forthcoat, I very carefully wet sand the varnish with 1,000 gritwet/dry sand paper, after it has dried for 24 hours. Then Ikeep applying more coats and wet sanding each one after they have dried for at least 24 hours. The final coat is applied verycarefully, making sure there is no dust, etc. The last coat isleft as is, without wet sanding or rubbing out. It comes outlike glass. Dave L. from gholland@navsys.com Tue Jul 20 09:11:29 1999 Greg Holland Subject: RE: More on Planes Thanks to Tony, Mark and all of the rest of you for the input.....I thinkI'm going with the Record 9 1/2....and will find some type of scraper to tryto see what I think. Now on to practicing getting the blade sharp... Thanks again! Greg Holland -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: More on Planes Only if you've already got them and you feel like using them all otherwiseuse the 9-1/2 from go to whoa, though a scraping plane to finish the last whisper does make for a better glueline. Everybody says this so I may as well say it too but keeping the plane ironsharp is right up there with the actual plane selection itself.It's worth taking the time to experiment with the relationship betweenthedepth of cut and the width of the opening of the throat. Deep cuts need awide opening, shallow cuts require a narrow opening if you want to reducetearing of the cane. This is because as the plane iron cuts the cane thesliver of cane wants to lift up along it's length but the throat openingbreaks the fibers as the cane enters the throat of the plane. If you takea shallow cut with awide opening the sliver will enter the plane further before it's fibersare broken and you'll wind up with tears. The angle the plane iron isset has much to do with this lifting and the 9-1/2 is seen as the best although the 60-1/2 will also work but needs closer attention to thewidth of the throat opening as it's angle of attack is lower.I have one of each and find myself using which ever one is handy at thetime (meaning, I hate to admit whichever is sharpest before doing theinevitable and actually sharpening the iron) Tony On Mon, 19 Jul 1999, Greg Holland wrote: Thanks for all of the feedback on the prices of planes, etc... Now, I have some questions about planing itself...Do you use differentplanes for different jobs (initial roughing, intial tapering, finalplaning,etc...)? If so, which planes? If you use one plane for all planing,whichone and why? Thanks! Greg Hollandgholland@navsys.com /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from mevans@acxiom.com Tue Jul 20 10:40:21 1999 (router,SLMail V3.2); Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:33:22 -0500 (204.107.111.23::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V3.2); Tue, 20 Jul1999 10:33:21-0500 popmail.conway.acxiom.com ; Tue Jul20 10:33:20 1999 -0500 (5.5.2448.0) Subject: Waterstones I have a question on Waterstones. I'm aware that some wood workers arevery particularabout their choice of waterstones - only taking stones from certainregions, or in somecases specific veins from quarries. I don't know why, but they say somestones will ruintheir tools and they are very adamant about it. Maybe part of theirprejudice must come from the ability for some stones to stay flat? I have three stones, two from Garrett Wade and a ridiculously expensive1000/6000combination from a woodworkers store. The combination stone will notstay flat longenough to keep from driving me bananas - it is very soft. The GarrettWade stones seemto be OK but it still requires quite a bit of maintenance. My question: - Are their some specific stones folks have used that seem tooutperformothers? Is there anything someone swears by as the stone to use? Thanks,Mark from dryfly@erols.com Tue Jul 20 10:45:42 1999 Subject: What Weight? I recently purchased on Ebay an interesting antique Abercrombie & Fitchsilk line winder (for storing lines off season) and it came with twolines, one of which is a silk line. I've not had the opportunity todetermine if the line is a tapered or a level line, which I can do.However, my question is how do I determine the line weight of a silkline? I guess I could cast it and/or mic the line and/or weigh thefirst 30 feet........any suggestions? ThanksBob from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Tue Jul 20 12:43:26 1999 Subject: Waterstones Mark,Have you looked at the "Scary Sharp" system? You don't have to worryabout flat stones with this system. Try:www.shavings.net/SCARY.HTM#original 2000 grit sandpaper is available in the automotive section at Wal-Mart.No connection to Wal-Mart except I seem to go there at least once a week Keep it sharp!Dick Fuhrman from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Tue Jul 20 13:22:23 1999 Tue, 20 Jul 1999 14:22:19 -0400 "'Rodmakers'" Subject: RE: Waterstones At last a question I feel qualified to answer, having done woodworking forsome 20 years now. It is almost entirely a matter of taste whichsharpeningsystem you use. Some people like oil stones. Some people can't abidethem.Some people use only a particular make of japanese waterstone, somepeoplethink they're a waste of money. Some hobbyist woodworking equipmentcatalogues spend a lot of ink trying to convince you to be picky picky picky- only genu-wine nagara handquarried by generations of dedicatedcraftsminers is good enoug for them. I find sandpaper taped to a slab ofmarble works great for me. Before that I used a combination India stoneanda hard arkansas for final honing. My dad got things razor sharp with thearkansas, but I can't. For some reason I could get an edge keen enough formost furniture making, but not good enough for cane. Go figure. Just findwhat works for you and stick with it. -----Original Message-----From: mevans - Mark Evans [SMTP:mevans@acxiom.com]Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 1999 11:42 AM Subject: Waterstones I have a question on Waterstones. I'm aware that some wood workers arevery particular about their choice of waterstones - only taking stones from certain regions, or in some cases specific veins from quarries. Idon't know why, but they say some stones will ruin their tools and theyare very adamant about it. Maybe part of their prejudice must come fromthe ability for some stones to stay flat? I have three stones, two from Garrett Wade and a ridiculously expensive1000/6000 combination from a woodworkers store. The combinationstonewill not stay flat long enough to keep from driving me bananas - it isvery soft. The Garrett Wade stones seem to be OK but it still requiresquite a bit of maintenance. My question: - Are their some specific stones folks have used that seemtooutperform others? Is there anything someone swears by as the stone touse? Thanks,Mark from rsgould@cmc.net Tue Jul 20 16:26:18 1999 Subject: old rod i.d. Here's a couple questions for you experts on the old cane rods: 1. Who made the rod marketed by Abercrombie and Fitch with the modelinkedon the butt section in white ink: Whitney's Yellowstone ? 2. Who made the rod that bears the stamped name "Ellery Arms" on the allmetal reel seat? Ray from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Jul 20 18:37:15 1999 16:41:43 PDT Subject: Payne Thread Colors What were the thread colors Jim Payne used on his rods? Is it similar to the Java Beige we special ordered through Jon Lintvet and the Rice Silk Co.? Did Payne have other colors he used on his rods or were they all brown with black tipping? Thanks. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from irvine@bamboorods.org Tue Jul 20 19:11:56 1999 4.30.0010/LC0055.00.e068cef4) with ESMTP id mwllaaaa for;Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:11:42 -0700 Subject: Bishop Gathering To All, I think that the consensus of the group that expressed interest seemedto be the last weekend in Oct.. I did not get any feed back at all whenI posted this a few weeks ago so I assumed that it was okay or nobodywas interested. Still would like some help on getting a programtogether. I will be here in Bonita and around the computer until thisWen. and then in Bishop until Mon., Rivers down some and lots ofhatches. Phone in Bishop is (760) 387 0033 if anyone is in the area. Tight Lines, Chuck from MLand02045@aol.com Tue Jul 20 21:19:24 1999 Subject: Rod Wrapper I am new to the list and have plans to build a rod. Does anyone have plans Thanks, Mike from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Tue Jul 20 21:42:29 1999 Subject: thanks Thanks to every one that gave advice on a perfect glass like finish. I'll let you know how it turns outJoe from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Wed Jul 21 07:47:48 1999 Subject: Re: Waterstones Art, I have not until now heard of these papers nor have I tried them.Sounds interesting. Guess on my next trip to Lowe's I'll have to lookin the tool or paint section to see what I can find. I'll let you knowwhat I find. This time of year I usually only go in there for plumbing or electricalsupplies. The temperature here has been consistantly in the high 90's.That makes for a lot of air conditioner repairs and that is what pays Dick Fuhrman AN>Dick,AN> Are you aware of the papers mentioned at this site? AN> http://members.aol.com/tomprice/galootp/Quicklap.html#walter_qlap AN>They sound real good but I haven't seen them since I read about them. AN>At 01:00 PM 7/20/99 EDT, you wrote:AN>>Mark,AN>>Have you looked at the "Scary Sharp" system? You don't have to worryAN>>about flat stones with this system. Try:AN>>www.shavings.net/SCARY.HTM#originalAN>>AN>>2000 grit sandpaper is available in the automotive section at Wal-Mart.AN>>No connection to Wal-Mart except I seem to go there at least once aweekAN>>for something.AN>>Keep it sharp!AN>>Dick FuhrmanAN>>AN>>AN>>AN>>AN>> from LambersonW@missouri.edu Wed Jul 21 08:17:14 1999 (5.5.2448.0) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Rod Wrapper Hi Mike - Are you looking for plans for a binder for gluing, or a wrapper forattaching guides? I suspect a binder, and if so, check the RodmakersArchives http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm in September/October1998and February/March 1999 for directions for constructing Tom Smithwick'sbinder. It is simple to build and very effective. I put a sewing machinemotor on mine so I would have both hands free to handle the rod and amveryhappy with it. I just took the pulley off the motor and put a piece ofvinyl tubing over the shaft, then screwed the motor to the base such thatthe tubing makes direct contact with the binder pulley. The whole thingcost about $25 including the cost of the garage sale sewing machine. Thesewing machine also provided the thread tensioner. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Subject: Rod Wrapper I am new to the list and have plans to build a rod. Does anyone have plans Thanks, Mike from jswitzer@mnsi.net Wed Jul 21 08:56:13 1999 Subject: calculations/setting of gauge/ boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01BED35F.9DAA7360" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BED35F.9DAA7360 I need some info. on setting up my guage to set up my planing form. The =difficulty is that the readings do not coincide with the functioning =ability of the form itself. In other words, I'am unable to get the form =down to less than .050. I've been told that my form is good, given that = Further, the gauge is a 20.00 dollar special from Starrott, with a =homemade wood base etc., equiped also with the 60 degree tip. Could =someone out there give me some indication as to where I'am going wrong. =Yours Jim ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BED35F.9DAA7360 I need some info. on setting up my guage to set up = form. The difficulty is that the readings do not coincide with the = ability of the form itself. In other words, I'am unable to get the form = less than .050. I've been told that my form is good, given that it has = tip section every 21/2". Starrott, with a homemade wood base etc., equiped also with the 60 = Could someone out there give me some indication as to where I'am wrong. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BED35F.9DAA7360-- from mevans@acxiom.com Wed Jul 21 11:41:04 1999 (router,SLMail V3.2); Wed, 21 Jul 1999 11:34:16 -0500 (204.107.111.23::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V3.2); Wed, 21 Jul1999 11:34:16-0500 popmail.conway.acxiom.com ; Wed Jul21 11:34:14 1999 -0500 (5.5.2448.0) Subject: RE: calculations/setting of gauge/ James,Being an absolute beginner, I'm a little hesitant to post this to the entirelist. But,(gosh) it seems that many questions are getting answered off list thesedays when, in mycase, I receive better advice when I take the chance of being told I'mwrong (again)!I've learned to anticipate it and thoroughly enjoy the mentoring! :-) Take a look at Chris Bogart's article on using drill rods to calibrate adepth gauge.Try measuring the tip with a small drill rod and see if you can get past the.050problem. It may be your indicator point or the form. Chris explains bothin thearticle. You can get to it at:http://www.shentel.net/canerod/HTML/ClassIndex.html (click RodmakingTools Info on theleft.) This will allow you to calibrate your indicator to an accurate basesetting ifthat is a problem. supplyhouse. These are "Swiss cheese" blocks that are used as spacers bymachinists. Theyare drilled and threaded at 3/8" and are accurate to within .001. ("456"blocks arewithin .0005 for about $40). The 123 block makes a nice stable base forthe indicator.My indicator fits nicely in the 3/8 hole. I secured it with some 3/8 inchcoarse threadbolts. It looks a little unorthodox, but works great and I didn't have towait on mailorder. They came two to a set - the other block can be used to make anaccurate jig fora lathe bit. The 2 blocks was about $10. Good luck - hope this helps.Mark -----Original Message----- Subject: calculations/setting of gauge/ I need some info. on setting up my guage to set up my planing form. Thedifficulty isthat the readings do not coincide with the functioning ability of the formitself. Inother words, I'am unable to get the form down to less than .050. I've beentold that myform is good, given that it has stations tip section every 21/2". Further, the gauge is a 20.00 dollar special from Starrott, with ahomemade wood baseetc., equiped also with the 60 degree tip. Could someone out there give mesomeindication as to where I'am going wrong. Yours Jim from gholland@navsys.com Wed Jul 21 11:50:02 1999 Subject: Sharpening Jigs I am curious to hear the various opinions on sharpening jigs; how valuablethey are and, if so, which you would recommend. Thanks. Greg Hollandgholland@navsys.com from jackdale@uswest.net Wed Jul 21 12:19:37 1999 (206.196.156.235) Ashton Olson ,Barbara Cadmus ,"Bucher, Julia" ,"Dale, Diana" ,George Sharpe ,Gwen Rivas , Jeane Baltzersen,John Barrett , John Cadmus ,Judy Bucher , Kim Sayers,Keith Dale , Lori Lohman ,Mark Metcalf , Pat Manginelli,Raleigh Koch ,Rodmakers , Teddy Dale,Thurmond & Whitney Moore ,Timmy Holmes Subject: [Fwd: Fwd: Warning..........Virus] 8237433D215901E99E5693B1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 8237433D215901E99E5693B1 --------------8237433D215901E99E5693B1 0000 (207.82.63.55) mercury.goc.com(8.8.8/SMI-SVR4) Wed, 21 Jul 1999 09:33:20 PDT Subject: Fwd: Warning..........Virus =_NextPart_000_44bf459b_28219382$64e5e0c2" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_44bf459b_28219382$64e5e0c2 deborahzaid@hotmail.comSubject: Fwd: Warning..........Virus FYI, my friends. Sandy _______________________________________________________________Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com---- --=_NextPart_000_44bf459b_28219382$64e5e0c2 air-yd02.mx.aol.com (v60.14) with ESMTP; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 18:10:59-0400 rly-yd03.mx.aol.com (v60.18) with ESMTP; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 18:10:46-0400 Gateway); Tue, 20 Jul 1999 14:41:58 -0700X400-Received: by mta kpMTA in /c=us/admd= /prmd=kp/; Relayed;20 Jul 1999 14:41:53 -0700X400- Received: by /c=us/admd= /prmd=kp/; Relayed; 20 Jul 1999 14:41:53- 0700X400-MTS-Identifier: [/c=us/admd= /prmd=kp/; 072783794ED210A2- kpMTA]Content-Identifier: 072783794ED210A2Content-Return: AllowedX400-Content-Type: P2-1988 ( 22 )Conversion: AllowedOriginal- Encoded-Information-Types: IA5-TextPriority: normalDisclose-Recipients: ProhibitedAlternate-Recipient: AllowedX400-Originator: Elsa.Thornton@kp.orgX400-Recipients: non-disclosure; Subject: Re: Fwd: Warning..........Virus ---------------------- Forwarded by Elsa Thornton/CA/KAIPERM on07/20/99 02:40 PM--------------------------- Gregg Cannella07/20/99 10:02 AM Thornton/CA/KAIPERM@KPNC, Maureen CBowman/CA/KAIPERM@KPNC, Evelyn Ahn/CA/KAIPERM@KPNC, Thaddeus RCroyle/CA/KAIPERM@KPNC,Cindy Wang/CA/KAIPERM@KPNC, Carolynn Beaver/REG/KPNC@KPNC Subject: Re: Fwd: Warning..........Virus Lisacanfly@aol.com on 07/15/99 09:43:00 PM cross@tibco.com@Internet,DebASmall@aol.com@Internet, jgjester@lucent.com@Internet,khazelri@us.oracle.com@Internet, kim.wines@unistudios.com@Internet,lumleye@fleishman.com@Internet, meganlee@jps.net@Internet,mrabbach@farallon.com@Internet, mariannew@hotmail.com@Internet,nunner@hotmail.com@Internet, NUNNER2@aol.com@Internet,rooke@ocsnet.net@Internet,tera@thegrid.net@Internet Subject: Fwd: Warning..........Virus -------------------------Forwarded------------------------ Subject: Warning..........VirusIn a message dated 99-07-15 18:48:35 EDT, tlj816@hotmail.com writes: "Please take note:WARNING: If you receive an email with a file called "California", donot open the file. The file contains the WOBBLER virus. Thisinformationwasannounced yesterday morning from IBM; AOL states that this is a verydangerous virus, much worse than Melissa", and that there is NOremedy Some very sick individual has succeeded in using the reformat function from Norton Utilities causing it to completely erase all documents onthehard drive. It has been designed to work with Netscape Navigator andMicrosoft Internet Explorer. It destroys Macintosh and IBM compatiblecomputers. This is a new, very malicious virus and not many people know about it.Pass this warning along to EVERYONE in your address book and pleaseshareitwith all your online friends ASAP so that this threat may be stopped." http://www.pagoo.com/me.asp?5597359068 -------------------------Forwarded------------------------ Subject: Fwd: FW: Warning..........Virus From: "Jason Richards" beall@psych.ucsb.edu, bmarx@iname.com, curtrocka@hotmail.com,cmo@space.mit.edu, cowilson@up.edu, pwyoung@mit.edu,gmc11642@aol.com,larry.richards@kentrox.com, ferahg@aol.com, woodga@kpnw.org,groberts@hsph.harvard.edu, jared@mit.edu,Scott.Jenkins@barclaysglobal.com,Kiljul@aol.com, jkndsan@aol.com, lilah@mit.edu, malvarez@pgexch.com,kathy.richards@tek.com, neogi@mit.edu, singerp@mit.edu,anthony_stgeorge@yahoo.com, klemiokel@yahoo.com,madriver4@hotmail.com,shonda.bench@attws.com, suemit@mit.edu, tlj816@hotmail.com,twotonshoe@aol.com, jawtoo@hotmail.com, yurko@mit.eduSubject: Fwd: FW: Warning...........VirusDate: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 16:18:17 EDT ----Original Message Follows----From: Angela Allen "'brooke@mgpc.com'" ,"'Jennifer.Cardona@Nextel.com'" ,"'bmmadsen@lucent.com.'" ,"'dcolleran@email.msn.com'" , NatachaDolak, "'HDimbat@starbucks.com'", "'jlucey@MICROSOFT.com'", "'Steve795@yahoo.com'","'scottMercado@earthlink.net'" ,"'mcw_home@yahoo.com'" ,"'Nick.Orbeck@ci.seattle.wa.us'" ,"'Spp27@aol.com'" , "'s_poach@hotmail.com'", "'rumpza@wesdesign.com'", "'Arrow408@aol.com'","'ckt01_99@yahoo.com'" ,"'edurocher@orca.teltone.com'" ,"'jchurch@Rational.Com'" ,"'shonda.bench@attws.com'" ,"'richards@mit.edu'" , "'larryW@JohnLScott.com'", "'kjohnson@costco.com'", "'iank@accountingnet.com'", "'kelly@interclick.com'", "'ryfox@u.washington.edu'", "'cordonaA@ctt.com'" ,"'ddammarell@thecity.org'" ,"'marcia@shopnow.com'" ,"'angelic.synder@wcom.com'" Subject: FW: Warning...........VirusDate: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 12:45:09 -0700 -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 8:11 AM Subject: Warning...........Virus "Please take note:WARNING: If you receive an email with a file called "California", donot open the file. The file contains the WOBBLER virus. Thisinformationwasannounced yesterday morning from IBM; AOL states that this is a verydangerous virus, much worse than Melissa", and that there is NO remedy Some very sick individual has succeeded in using the reformat function from Norton Utilities causing it to completely erase all documents onthehard drive. It has been designed to work with Netscape Navigator andMicrosoft Internet Explorer. It destroys Macintosh and IBM compatiblecomputers. This is a new, very malicious virus and not many people know about it.Pass this warning along to EVERYONE in your address book and pleaseshareitwith all your online friends ASAP so that this threat may be stopped." http://www.pagoo.com/me.asp?5597359068 _______________________________________________________________Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com _______________________________________________________________Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------=_NextPart_000_44bf459b_28219382$64e5e0c2-- --------------8237433D215901E99E5693B1-- from jgm56@gateway.net Wed Jul 21 12:24:21 1999 (may be forged)) boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002A_01BED37D.0675AAA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01BED37D.0675AAA0 I am looking for info on making my own agate striping guides. John Miller ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01BED37D.0675AAA0 I am looking for info on makingmy = striping guides. Thanks, John Miller ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01BED37D.0675AAA0-- from jackdale@uswest.net Wed Jul 21 12:25:09 1999 (206.196.156.235) Ashton Olson ,Barbara Cadmus ,Craig Steele ,"Dale, Diana" ,Ed Olson ,George Sharpe ,Gwen Rivas , Jeane Baltzersen,John Barrett , John Cadmus ,Judy Bucher , Keith Dale ,Kim Sayers , Lori Lohman ,Margaret Wolf ,Mark Metcalf , Pat Manginelli,Raleigh Koch ,Rodmakers ,Seamus Conaty , Teddy Dale,Thurmond & Whitney Moore ,Subject: WARNING - NEW VIRUS "Please take note:WARNING: If you receive an email with a file called "California",donot open the file. The file contains the WOBBLER virus. Thisinformation was announced yesterday morning from IBM; AOL statesthat this is a verydangerous virus, much worse than Melissa", and that there is NOremedy Some very sick individual has succeeded in using the reformatfunction from Norton Utilities causing it to completely erase all documents onthehard drive. It has been designed to work with Netscape Navigator and Microsoft Internet Explorer. It destroys Macintosh and IBMcompatiblecomputers. This is a new, very malicious virus and not many people know aboutit.Pass this warning along to EVERYONE in your address book and please share it with all your online friends ASAP so that this threat may bestopped." from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Jul 21 12:36:21 1999 10:41:01 PDT Subject: re: WARNING - NEW VIRUS Hi Jack, According to the Symantec website http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/hoax.html this virus alert is a hoax. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu-------------Original Text "Please take note:WARNING: If you receive an email with a file called "California",donot open the file. The file contains the WOBBLER virus. Thisinformation was announced yesterday morning from IBM; AOL statesthat this is a verydangerous virus, much worse than Melissa", and that there is NOremedy Some very sick individual has succeeded in using the reformatfunction from Norton Utilities causing it to completely erase all documents onthehard drive. It has been designed to work with Netscape Navigator and Microsoft Internet Explorer. It destroys Macintosh and IBMcompatiblecomputers. This is a new, very malicious virus and not many people know aboutit.Pass this warning along to EVERYONE in your address book and please share it with all your online friends ASAP so that this threat may bestopped." from gholland@navsys.com Wed Jul 21 12:36:59 1999 Anne McGihon,Ashton Olson ,Barbara Cadmus ,Craig Steele,"Dale, Diana" ,Ed Olson,George Sharpe ,Gwen Rivas , Jeane Baltzersen,John Barrett , John Cadmus ,Judy Bucher , Keith Dale ,Kim Sayers , Lori Lohman ,Margaret Wolf ,Mark Metcalf, Pat Manginelli ,Raleigh Koch,Rodmakers ,Seamus Conaty , Teddy Dale,Subject: RE: WARNING - NEW VIRUS ----This is a hoax The following information is from Symantec's website on this "virus". Thesehoax's are designed to get everyone forwarding information which may, inturn, clog up mail servers (especially AOL). Always check the followingaddress for info before forwarding on virus info: http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/hoax.html Here is the infor on this hoax: WOBBLER Virus HoaxVirusName: WOBBLER Virus Hoax Aliases: none Known Variants: Hoax Infection Length: Hoax Area of Infection: Hoax Likelihood: Hoax Region Reported: email Keys: Hoax Description: This information is a hoax and should be ignored. Sample of hoax message: Dear All, witha file called California, do not open the file. The file contains WOBBLERvirus. WARNING This information was announced yesterday morning from IBM; AOL statesthatthis is a very dangerous virus, much worse than "Melissa", and that thereisNO remedy for it at this time. Some very sick individual has succeeded inusing the reformat function from Norton Utilities causing it to completelyerase all documents on the hard drive. It has been designed to work withNetscape Navigator and Microsoft Internet Explorer. It destroys Macintoshand IBM compatible computers. This is a new, very malicious virus and notmany people know about it. Please ignore any messages regarding this "hoax" and do not pass on anymessages regarding it. Passing on messages about this hoax serves only tofurther propagate it. Write-up by: Motoaki YamamuraUpdated: May 15, 1999 -----Original Message----- Diana; Ed Olson; George Sharpe; Gwen Rivas; Jeane Baltzersen; JohnBarrett; John Cadmus; Judy Bucher; Keith Dale; Kim Sayers; Lori Lohman;Margaret Wolf; Mark Metcalf; Pat Manginelli; Raleigh Koch; Rodmakers;Seamus Conaty; Teddy Dale; Thurmond & Whitney MooreSubject: WARNING - NEW VIRUS "Please take note:WARNING: If you receive an email with a file called "California",donot open the file. The file contains the WOBBLER virus. Thisinformation was announced yesterday morning from IBM; AOL statesthat this is a verydangerous virus, much worse than Melissa", and that there is NOremedy Some very sick individual has succeeded in using the reformatfunction from Norton Utilities causing it to completely erase all documents onthehard drive. It has been designed to work with Netscape Navigator and Microsoft Internet Explorer. It destroys Macintosh and IBMcompatiblecomputers. This is a new, very malicious virus and not many people know aboutit.Pass this warning along to EVERYONE in your address book and please share it with all your online friends ASAP so that this threat may bestopped." from MICK@welfen-netz.com Wed Jul 21 12:45:11 1999 [127.0.0.1] with SMTP(MDaemon.v2.7.SP5.R) for ; Wed, 21 Jul1999 19:43:21 +0200 anglport@con2.com, RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Question there is a saying about fools and theire money...... :) Jack Dale wrote: No, not yet anyways, but last I heard a fair number of people werespending upwards oftwo thousand dollars for an R.L. Winston rod and I don't believe eitherRobert Wintheror Lew Stoner are still making them. Just a thought. Michael Mèller wrote: TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: Irish,it seem that most of the list are willing to accept the name "Payne"beingtagged onto a new rod company.What would the list think if the name "Garrison" was put onto acontemporary rod?All of us list members with a Garrison book and a lathe would have notrouble inin producing an exact replica with all the rather crude ( by todaysstandards)fittings.The "new" Garrisons would be far more authentic than the "new"Paynes because wewould be working to Garrison's very own detailed buildinginstructions which Iam sure Payne did not leave behind.Is there a difference between a fake Garrison and a modern Payne?Terry don't think there is. but would you pay 2 grand for a D.Holloman?:)Michael from anglport@con2.com Wed Jul 21 12:53:14 1999 "'RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu'" Subject: Re: Sharpening Jigs Greg,The best one I've seen so far (and the one I'm using) is one that ChrisBogart showed me. It's merely two pieces of plexiglass (generically) andthey're glued together to form one piece that is a sort of shelf. Ifthey're parallel, you don't really need a third to make sure the blade isperpendicular to the stone. You hold the jig's body against the end of theguide, stick the blade through your guide and out 'til it bottoms on theupper piece, lock up, and then set the guide so it's at the angle you wantit at, AND NEVER ADJUST THE GUIDE AGAIN (sorry, I don't have italics onthis Eudora). There's a picture of it at Chris' website (listed atRodmakers' page -- I can't find the URL to save my neck right now). I use arotation of 5 planes and I sharpen them all at once, all 5 on one grit ofsandpaper, then all 5 on the next, etc., and I have NEVER had suchconsistent results from a system! The blades get sharper and they takelesstime to do since you're not re-establishing a new angle every time youthrow them in the guide.The only trick is in dedicating the guide to your cane work or gettinganother guide if you use different angles for different planes. Once youreadjust the guide, your jig is DOO-DOO!Have fun,Art At 10:51 AM 7/21/99 -0600, Greg Holland wrote:I am curious to hear the various opinions on sharpening jigs; how valuablethey are and, if so, which you would recommend. Thanks. Greg Hollandgholland@navsys.com from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Wed Jul 21 13:14:48 1999 Subject: Re: Waterstones Richard, Leroy, Thanks for the input on automotive paint stores. I hadn't found the2500 grit yet. The papers that Art was referring to from the article, were AluminaZirconia abrasive belts (AlZ). These come in grits of 24, 36, 40, 50,80 and 120 according to the article. These are used at the very startof the act of creating a flat sole on your plane because they have avery aggressive cutting action and long wearing properties. The articleindicates that the are very good for the cutting the cast iron of planessole. The article can be found at: http://members.aol.com/tomprice/galootp/Quicklap.html#walter_qlap Look it over, it's a good read. I try and visit the closest automotive paint store this weekend and seeif I can find some 2500 grit paper. Dick Fuhrman from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Wed Jul 21 13:20:58 1999 0400 Subject: RE: Question ...no, I don't have a Winston bamboo rod but I would be willing to bet thatthey still cast really well, are beautiful, AND they will retain theirvalue....the latter is probably to some extent a self perpetuating thing andperhaps one reason why some people who have the money would ratherspend iton a Winston... -----Original Message----- anglport@con2.com; RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Question there is a saying about fools and theire money...... :) Jack Dale wrote: No, not yet anyways, but last I heard a fair number of people werespending upwards oftwo thousand dollars for an R.L. Winston rod and I don't believe eitherRobert Wintheror Lew Stoner are still making them. Just a thought. Michael M|ller wrote: TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: Irish,it seem that most of the list are willing to accept the name "Payne"beingtagged onto a new rod company.What would the list think if the name "Garrison" was put onto acontemporary rod?All of us list members with a Garrison book and a lathe would have notrouble inin producing an exact replica with all the rather crude ( by todaysstandards)fittings.The "new" Garrisons would be far more authentic than the "new"Paynesbecause wewould be working to Garrison's very own detailed buildinginstructionswhich Iam sure Payne did not leave behind.Is there a difference between a fake Garrison and a modern Payne?Terry don't think there is. but would you pay 2 grand for a D.Holloman?:)Michael from ralph.shuey@redstone.army.mil Wed Jul 21 13:43:40 1999 RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Question The question for us simple users is; do they really cast $2000 worth, or$500 better than top custom maker's rods? I don't thinkso.....................But then again there are those that insist onCadillac's et al -----Original Message-----From: andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 1999 2:15 PM Subject: RE: Question ...no, I don't have a Winston bamboo rod but I would bewilling to bet thatthey still cast really well, are beautiful, AND they willretain theirvalue....the latter is probably to some extent a selfperpetuating thing andperhaps one reason why some people who have the money wouldrather spend iton a Winston... -----Original Message-----From: Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 1999 1:45 PM Cc: hexagon@odyssee.net; irish-george;anglport@con2.com; RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Question there is a saying about fools and theire money...... :) Jack Dale wrote: No, not yet anyways, but last I heard a fair number ofpeople werespending upwards oftwo thousand dollars for an R.L. Winston rod and I don'tbelieve eitherRobert Wintheror Lew Stoner are still making them. Just a thought. Michael M|ller wrote: TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: Irish,it seem that most of the list are willing to acceptthe name "Payne"beingtagged onto a new rod company.What would the list think if the name "Garrison" wasput onto acontemporary rod?All of us list members with a Garrison book and alathe would have notrouble inin producing an exact replica with all the rathercrude ( by todaysstandards)fittings.The "new" Garrisons would be far more authentic thanthe "new" Paynesbecause wewould be working to Garrison's very own detailedbuilding instructionswhich Iam sure Payne did not leave behind.Is there a difference between a fake Garrison and amodern Payne?Terry don't think there is. but would you pay 2 grand for aD.Holloman?:)Michael from anglport@con2.com Wed Jul 21 14:25:32 1999 Subject: Re: Waterstones Boys, I'll tell you, 2000 feels faintly reminiscent of a baby's bottom; Ihave no idea what 2500 must be like! Couldn't you just rub the blades on apiece of typing paper and save the money *G*?Art At 01:32 PM 7/21/99 EDT, dickfuhrman@rheemote.com wrote:Richard, Leroy, Thanks for the input on automotive paint stores. I hadn't found the2500 grit yet. The papers that Art was referring to from the article, were AluminaZirconia abrasive belts (AlZ). These come in grits of 24, 36, 40, 50,80 and 120 according to the article. These are used at the very startof the act of creating a flat sole on your plane because they have avery aggressive cutting action and long wearing properties. The articleindicates that the are very good for the cutting the cast iron of planessole. The article can be found at: http://members.aol.com/tomprice/galootp/Quicklap.html#walter_qlap Look it over, it's a good read. I try and visit the closest automotive paint store this weekend and seeif I can find some 2500 grit paper. Dick Fuhrman from JorgeCarcao@myna.com Wed Jul 21 15:07:00 1999 mail.myna.com(Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0400 Subject: Bill Waara, Bamboo Icon To all those concerned, I have been asked to pass on some regrettable news. Yesterday evening Bill Waara passed away. Bill, a Michigan native, had been building cane rods for over 50 years. Many of you folks have either come across some of his rodbuilding thoughts, ideas or techniques at the various rodgatherings or through the Planing Form. John Long wrote a piece on his life in the Planing Form #44.met Bill in person. I would just like to add that Bill was a special gentleman, knowledgable, generous, his sparkling good nature &sense of humor unequalled. Some of my fondest memories will be those nights, when a group of us, huddled around Bill to talk bamboo. I trulywill miss him and cherish our friendship. The arrangements are as follows: Thayer-Rock Funeral Home 33603 Grand River, Farmington Mich 248-474-4131 Visitation: Thurs. 7-9 PM Fri. 1-9 PM Funeral Sat. 11:00 AM Jorge from john@joss.ucar.edu Wed Jul 21 15:09:01 1999 Subject: heat guns again Hi all, I've reviewed the archives about heat guns.The consensus seemed to be that the Sears Prowas a good gun. However, my local Sears salestrontells me they don't carry heat guns and sears.com makesno mention of them either. (They have a Heat Gun categorybut it is filled with power hammers. No heat guns in thehammer section. ;) The archives also reveal that the Sears Pro was made Hardware Store" has a Bosch 1942 for $90 on closeout(last one left as they've gone to Wagner and Porter-Cable).I might be able to bargain a bit more. Is the Bosch 1942 a good unit? bosch.com says nothing aboutit or any gun except the 1943 LED has a parts schematic. A deja.com search also didn't turn up much. John Allisonjohn@joss.ucar.eduBoulder, Colorado from tklein@amgen.com Wed Jul 21 15:31:08 1999 smtp.amgen.com via smap (3.2) Subject: RE: heat guns again I ordered my Sears gun from the Craftsman catalogs 800 number. The partnumber is 9-27801. I'm in Boulder too, and delivery took less than a week. Sorry I can't help you with a review of the other guns, but so far I'm muchhappier with the Sears gun than the Wagner heat guns I tried before.--- Tim ----------From: John J. Allison[SMTP:john@joss.ucar.edu] Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 1999 2:08 PM Subject: heat guns again Hi all, I've reviewed the archives about heat guns.The consensus seemed to be that the Sears Prowas a good gun. However, my local Sears salestrontells me they don't carry heat guns and sears.com makesno mention of them either. (They have a Heat Gun categorybut it is filled with power hammers. No heat guns in thehammer section. ;) The archives also reveal that the Sears Pro was made Hardware Store" has a Bosch 1942 for $90 on closeout(last one left as they've gone to Wagner and Porter-Cable).I might be able to bargain a bit more. Is the Bosch 1942 a good unit? bosch.com says nothing aboutit or any gun except the 1943 LED has a parts schematic. A deja.com search also didn't turn up much. John Allisonjohn@joss.ucar.eduBoulder, Colorado from anglport@con2.com Wed Jul 21 15:54:19 1999 Subject: Re: heat guns again John,They told me that at my Sears too. I then saw postings of peoplebuyingthem for another year or so. I have a feeling the folks at Sears don't know#$$@%$ about what they sell. See the catalog and check what THEY sell. Ihad a Steinel that I thought was going to be too HOT. Belay that!Art At 02:08 PM 7/21/99 -0600, John J. Allison wrote:Hi all, I've reviewed the archives about heat guns.The consensus seemed to be that the Sears Prowas a good gun. However, my local Sears salestrontells me they don't carry heat guns and sears.com makesno mention of them either. (They have a Heat Gun categorybut it is filled with power hammers. No heat guns in thehammer section. ;) The archives also reveal that the Sears Pro was made Hardware Store" has a Bosch 1942 for $90 on closeout(last one left as they've gone to Wagner and Porter-Cable).I might be able to bargain a bit more. Is the Bosch 1942 a good unit? bosch.com says nothing aboutit or any gun except the 1943 LED has a parts schematic. A deja.com search also didn't turn up much. John Allisonjohn@joss.ucar.eduBoulder, Colorado from rvenneri@ulster.net Wed Jul 21 15:55:13 1999 0400 Subject: clicking ferule We just finished our first rod and it really looks good. It seems tocast good too. The only thing is there is a damn clicking at theferrule. Is there any way to fix this without repacing everything. Theclick is metal to metal. Being a machinest I should have done ok there. Best RegardsBob VVenneri's21 Chuck Hill Rdsaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882 from bills@nwlink.com Wed Jul 21 17:49:26 1999 Subject: Re: heat guns again John,The Milwaukee 2000-D heat gun works great for me. Variable adjustmentknobgoes smoothly from cold to flame thrower.Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: heat guns again Hi all, I've reviewed the archives about heat guns.The consensus seemed to be that the Sears Prowas a good gun. However, my local Sears salestrontells me they don't carry heat guns and sears.com makesno mention of them either. (They have a Heat Gun categorybut it is filled with power hammers. No heat guns in thehammer section. ;) The archives also reveal that the Sears Pro was made Hardware Store" has a Bosch 1942 for $90 on closeout(last one left as they've gone to Wagner and Porter-Cable).I might be able to bargain a bit more. Is the Bosch 1942 a good unit? bosch.com says nothing aboutit or any gun except the 1943 LED has a parts schematic. A deja.com search also didn't turn up much. John Allisonjohn@joss.ucar.eduBoulder, Colorado from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Jul 21 18:17:35 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c)