from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Aug 1 07:54:05 1999 Subject: lucky marks Check out uncle George, great stuff. "as is blanks" and rods with"lucky" marks on.What a refreshing change from all the other rodmakers that are producing"gorgeous works of art".Terry from richjez@enteract.com Sun Aug 1 14:31:06 1999 0000 Subject: Al Medved's mill. I have finally sorted through my pictures from Grayling. There are 17, of many more, good pictured of Al Medved's mill. In some of the pictures, I placed a tape measure. If you would like them, there 17 pics which are about 2.4 mb or about 2 floppy disks. They will be sent as email attachments in jpeg format. Rich Jezioro *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@ /||/______/_||_________________________________________||/\/ \ > > from MICK@welfen-netz.com Sun Aug 1 18:40:56 1999 [127.0.0.1] with SMTP(MDaemon.v2.7.SP5.R) for ; Mon, 02 Aug1999 01:39:02 +0200 Subject: Re: wasting time yep but after checking the phone bill I'm back at work :) TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: I have just received my account from my internet provider and lastmonthI spent a total of 57 hours on line! What a complete waste of time and asummer.I was building lots of rods before I got addicted to surfing about 2 1/2years ago and now I hardly enter my workshop.Is there any other rodmakers with the same problem? from jmsmith@seidata.com Sun Aug 1 23:25:09 1999 Subject: Re: Al Medved's mill. ok----- Original Message ----- Subject: Al Medved's mill. I have finally sorted through my pictures from Grayling. There are 17, ofmany more, good pictured of Al Medved's mill. In some of the pictures, Iplaced a tape measure. If you would like them, there 17 pics which are about 2.4 mb or about 2floppy disks. They will be sent as email attachments in jpeg format. Rich Jezioro *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@ /||/______/_||_________________________________________||/\/ \ > > / \ > from ralph.shuey@redstone.army.mil Mon Aug 2 09:31:01 1999 Subject: Rod Capacity Is there a "rule of thumb" for capacities of bamboo rods? While fishingmynew 6'6" 3wt I got to thinking; "What do you do if you get a really largefish on?" Is there sort of a practical way of protecting a rod i.e. limityourself to 5 or 6X tippets? What do the knowledgeable ones out therehaveto say?? Thanks, Ralph from briansr@point-net.com Mon Aug 2 10:09:55 1999 0000 Subject: Re: rod capacity Hi RalphI don't know if it's a question of rod capacity ,but perhaps a question ofstress on the fish.You always "battle" a fish even with an underpoweredrod,but at what price. 6 years back I caught and released a 12 or 14 lbAtlantic on a 7ft 4 wt using a 4 lb test leader.Felt pretty good till thatafternoon I returned to the pool and I noticed she was still holding about6 ft from where I released her and some twit was casting to her, trying tocatch it again !!!!!! She finally cruised out to her holding position thatevening about 6 hours after the fight. Water temp. was 57 degrees so thatwasn't a factor.Cheers Brian from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Aug 2 11:37:27 1999 Tue, 3 Aug 1999 00:38:57 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: rod capacity Ian would be able to comment here but I've heard it said a lot of Kiwiguides wont allow sports (punters) to fish too light for that reason. Tony On Mon, 2 Aug 1999, Brian Sturrock wrote: Hi RalphI don't know if it's a question of rod capacity ,but perhaps a question ofstress on the fish.You always "battle" a fish even with an underpoweredrod,but at what price. 6 years back I caught and released a 12 or 14 lbAtlantic on a 7ft 4 wt using a 4 lb test leader.Felt pretty good till thatafternoon I returned to the pool and I noticed she was still holdingabout6 ft from where I released her and some twit was casting to her, tryingtocatch it again !!!!!! She finally cruised out to her holding position thatevening about 6 hours after the fight. Water temp. was 57 degrees sothatwasn't a factor.Cheers Brian /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from bills@nwlink.com Mon Aug 2 12:22:46 1999 Subject: Re: rod capacity Brian,I have had two experiences similar to your Atlantic salmon. Both of minewere accidental / incidental catches. A 32 in steelhead on 7 ft, 4 wt whilefishing for searun cuts and, a 12 lb. bright sockeye on a 3 wt rod whilefishing for rainbows. Landed both fish, however both were exhausted... tooexhausted. Seeing that exhaustion neutralized my thrill of the "big fight".Next time those accidental catches happen I will give seriousconsiderationto breaking off.So... small rods will handle big fish, but at what price to the fish? Gee, from those comments it is hard to believe I was once a hard core"hook'em and cook 'em guy".Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: rod capacity Hi RalphI don't know if it's a question of rod capacity ,but perhaps a questionofstress on the fish.You always "battle" a fish even with an underpoweredrod,but at what price. 6 years back I caught and released a 12 or 14 lbAtlantic on a 7ft 4 wt using a 4 lb test leader.Felt pretty good tillthatafternoon I returned to the pool and I noticed she was still holdingabout6 ft from where I released her and some twit was casting to her, tryingtocatch it again !!!!!! She finally cruised out to her holding positionthatevening about 6 hours after the fight. Water temp. was 57 degrees sothatwasn't a factor.Cheers Brian from rcurry@ttlc.net Mon Aug 2 18:55:55 1999 (SMTPD32-5.01) id A0657D8800F0; Mon, 02 Aug 1999 19:57:25 EDT Subject: Re: rod capacity All,I don't think that the long fight will adversely impact the taste, but Imight be wrong. Does anyone know whether a stressed fish tastes as goodas onethat is horsed to the net in 30 seconds on a 10# test tippet?I occasionally watch the bass fishing shows on TV. They really knowhow toreduce the fight to a minimum. I guess that's 'cause they are goodsportsmen,eh?Best regards,Reed from channer@hubwest.com Mon Aug 2 19:04:19 1999 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A27C5DF0110; Mon, 02 Aug 1999 18:06:20 MST Subject: Re: Rod Capacity At 08:50 AM 8/2/99 -0500, Shuey, Ralph wrote:Is there a "rule of thumb" for capacities of bamboo rods? While fishingmynew 6'6" 3wt I got to thinking; "What do you do if you get a really largefish on?" Is there sort of a practical way of protecting a rod i.e. limityourself to 5 or 6X tippets? What do the knowledgeable ones out therehaveto say?? Thanks, Ralph Guys;I have tested some of my smaller rods(Payne 98,7'4wt. and PHY Midge 6'3"4wt.) on the San Juan, do what the books say, fight the fish off the lower1/3 of the rod, not the tip. I have landed 20" and better fish on thesesmall rods in no less time than on my 8' 5wt. and it took no longer forthem to swim off. Of course, by the time a fish gets that big on the Juan,they have been caught many times and know the routine. Also, I did not getany sets in the rods this way, or if I did, they were gone by the next timeI used the rod.I would say it is more important not to use too light atippet and then try to land a large fish. Face it, if it goes on too long,you will kill them. Break them off before you over do it.John from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Aug 2 20:03:18 1999 Subject: Re: Rod Capacity Ralph,I have a 6'3" bamboo rod that Bernard Hills built for me back around 1978 that I was using on the Pere Marquette River one night when the hexstarted to come off. I had been fishing size 20 BWOs and catching trout to 14"when I saw a fish rise and take a hex in a run just above me and just below the railroad tracks in the flies only section. I cut back my tippet to accomodate the hex and cast to this fish about 3-4 times when he took. All hell broke loose and after about a 20-25 minute fight I landed a 29" 9.5# brown trout. This rod handled this fish with no problem. There arecertain tricks you must remember when tied to a large fish , such as flipping therod over and not horsing him but any rod should handle any fish within reason.Bret from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Aug 2 22:01:40 1999 Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:03:21 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: rod capacity I read the tuna polers based out of South Australia try not to mess abouttoo much as apart from the fact that if you're playing a fish out youcould be landing another in the same time the Japanese prefer the tase ofunstressed tuna.In case you don't know about the tuna polers, these guys motor up tofeeding schools and catch *huge* tuna with long poles with a line andshiny barbless hook. I don't know why they don't net them, probablynetting restrictions apply. The tuna take the hook and the polers justheave them out. It breads people like Ben Lukin a weight lifter who wonsome commonwealth or olympic gold medals a few years back and was in a bitof trouble 5-6 years ago for shooting at rival fishing boats. I guesscatching 100lb plus tuna hand over fist would get the blood fairly up. Tony On Mon, 2 Aug 1999, Reed Curry wrote: All,I don't think that the long fight will adversely impact the taste, but Imight be wrong. Does anyone know whether a stressed fish tastes asgood as onethat is horsed to the net in 30 seconds on a 10# test tippet?I occasionally watch the bass fishing shows on TV. They really knowhow toreduce the fight to a minimum. I guess that's 'cause they are goodsportsmen,eh?Best regards,Reed /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from mevans@acxiom.com Tue Aug 3 12:48:50 1999 (router,SLMail V3.2); Tue, 03 Aug 1999 12:41:42 -0500 (204.107.111.23::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V3.2); Tue, 03 Aug1999 12:41:41-0500 popmail.conway.acxiom.com ; Tue Aug03 12:41:40 1999 -0500 (5.5.2448.0) Subject: Heat Treating Methods Could I ask for some opinions on heat treating options. I'm considering aconventionaloven,convection oven, and using a torch. I'd really like to build a convectionoven (heatgun)because it is cheaper. But some folks tell me that they don't heat asevenly and aremoredifficult to vary the temp settings. I was told yesterday that you could forget an oven and use a torch. Thissounds goodanda little scary. Does it take some time to develop the right touch to get itright usinga torch?It seems like it would be easy to damage the cane or cook it unevenly. I'd rather bite the bullet and build a mica-strip oven if that is a handsdown bestchoice. Help!!! TIAMark from amcsmith@nlis.net Tue Aug 3 13:20:58 1999 Subject: bamboo hello,the list is slow so i'll ask this question what sizebamboo do you guy's buy, i talked to andy today he'llcall me back with what he has avail on thurday forsizes, also talked to demhearst and they have an amazing variety of sizes including whole culms 20 pieces[ the only way to get it @ 12'] they also havebutt culms, mid culms, varius diameters to 2 1/2"chris from LambersonW@missouri.edu Tue Aug 3 14:00:27 1999 (5.5.2448.0) Subject: RE: bamboo Hi Chris - I have bought from both Demarest and Royer. I have always bought 2- 2 1/2 inch diameters in 12 foot lengths. Buying the full length culmsallows me to cut them where I want which is a bit of an advantage if youbuild nodeless. The service has been good from both suppliers and thecanequality acceptable as well. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Subject: bamboo hello,the list is slow so i'll ask this question what sizebamboo do you guy's buy, i talked to andy today he'llcall me back with what he has avail on thurday forsizes, also talked to demhearst and they have an amazing variety of sizes including whole culms 20 pieces[ the only way to get it @ 12'] they also havebutt culms, mid culms, varius diameters to 2 1/2"chris from spalding@harrynormanrealtors.com Tue Aug 3 17:09:44 1999 Subject: A fantastic beveler!! List, for the past couple of years I have been content to remain in theshadows and attempt to glean any and all meaningful information thatmightfind its way onto the list. For that matter, the only person out there thatknows me is Chris Bogart. That said, what am I able to contribute that might be meaningful to thisgroup? Simply this, I recently purchased a rough-out beveler that I foundto be truly incredibly easy to operate, beautifully engineered andobviously expertly conceived.I suspect that there are others like me that don't have the luxury ofspending as much time in the pursuit of that perfect rod as they wouldlike, and if they are interested in a tool that will speed the processalong then they might be interested in checking out Jerry Wall's web sitehttp://www.jwflyrods.com/.So, how do I know so much about bevelers? Simply stated, I don't. At thesame time, what I do know is that this thing is so easy to work that thefirst strip that I ran through it resulted in a rough cut strip that wasflawless (wish I could say that was always the case with my hand plannedones). Also I happen to own another beveler made by a person whose namewould be recognized by most of you, and I can tell you that Mr. Wall hashit the proverbial home run.No I have absolutely no connection to Jerry Wall or any product that hemaysell, and that is not the purpose of this post. If you are interested inthis tool then check him out for yourself. As for me I will fade back intothe shadows.Spalding White from rvenneri@ulster.net Tue Aug 3 18:23:36 1999 Tue, 3 Aug 1999 19:34:55 -0400 Subject: Re: A fantastic beveler!! Spalding White wrote: List, for the past couple of years I have been content to remain in theshadows and attempt to glean any and all meaningful information thatmightfind its way onto the list. For that matter, the only person out there thatknows me is Chris Bogart.That said, what am I able to contribute that might be meaningful to thisgroup? Simply this, I recently purchased a rough-out beveler that I foundto be truly incredibly easy to operate, beautifully engineered andobviously expertly conceived.I suspect that there are others like me that don't have the luxury ofspending as much time in the pursuit of that perfect rod as they wouldlike, and if they are interested in a tool that will speed the processalong then they might be interested in checking out Jerry Wall's web sitehttp://www.jwflyrods.com/.So, how do I know so much about bevelers? Simply stated, I don't. At thesame time, what I do know is that this thing is so easy to work that thefirst strip that I ran through it resulted in a rough cut strip that wasflawless (wish I could say that was always the case with my handplannedones). Also I happen to own another beveler made by a person whosenamewould be recognized by most of you, and I can tell you that Mr. Wall hashit the proverbial home run.No I have absolutely no connection to Jerry Wall or any product that hemaysell, and that is not the purpose of this post. If you are interested inthis tool then check him out for yourself. As for me I will fade back intothe shadows.Spalding WhiteHey,How are you. I was just wondering how the reel seats worked good Ihope. Let me know. Best regardsBob VVenneri's21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882rvenneri@ulster.nethttp://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index.html from castafly@gbis.com Tue Aug 3 20:02:59 1999 Subject: Stripper/Snake Guide Color Coordination I recently purchased a Dickerson 8013 taper blank from an establishedwestcoast rod builder (hopefully I will be making my own rods soon!). The rodhas blued ferrules, and I have ordered one of Robert Venerri's nickel silvercap and ring reel seats for it. I want to use the Mildrum Carbaloy stripperguides I already have, and I am looking for good quality snake guides andtip tops. I like the looks of blued/smoke/bronze snakes and tip tops, butI'm not sure how well they will match the silver color of the Mildrumstrippers. What do you builders out there recommend? Do you ever usesilver strippers (Mildrum or nickel silver agate) with blued/smoke/bronzesnakes and tip tops? Any suggestions? Thanks in advance! from thramer@presys.com Tue Aug 3 20:15:31 1999 0000 Subject: Re: Stripper/Snake Guide Color Coordination Jeff Ferguson wrote: I recently purchased a Dickerson 8013 taper blank from an establishedwestcoast rod builder (hopefully I will be making my own rods soon!). The rodhas blued ferrules, and I have ordered one of Robert Venerri's nickelsilvercap and ring reel seats for it. I want to use the Mildrum Carbaloystripperguides I already have, and I am looking for good quality snake guides andtip tops. I like the looks of blued/smoke/bronze snakes and tip tops, butI'm not sure how well they will match the silver color of the Mildrumstrippers. What do you builders out there recommend? Do you ever usesilver strippers (Mildrum or nickel silver agate) withblued/smoke/bronzesnakes and tip tops? Any suggestions? Thanks in advance! Hi Jeff, I use the carboloy strippers and prefer blued everything, the strippersblue very well and they will then match your blued hardware and guides.A.J.Thramer from if6were9@bellsouth.net Tue Aug 3 22:31:11 1999 Subject: Re: Stripper/Snake Guide Color Coordination I'm sure you are aware of this, but in case not, here is an easy way to getsomevery good looking hardware with a color case hardened appearance. Ilearnedthis years ago from a friend that builds flintlocks. Buff all you pieces andclean them well with lacquer thinner. Outside (or someplace besides thekitchen) set up a hot plate and put on a pot of ATF (automatictransmissionfluid). Bring it to just below boiling and drop your hardware in. The guythattaught me this would let his lockplates, etc. soak for 3 to 5 hours, thelongeryou leave it in, the deeper the penetration. The effect is somewhat lost onsmall items like snake guides, but on larger items like slip rings andferrulesit lends a really striking effect. I've tried it on nickel silver and it worksjust fine. from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Tue Aug 3 22:45:49 1999 (5.5.2448.0) castafly@gbis.com Subject: RE: Stripper/Snake Guide Color Coordination Pat,is that used or unused ATF? Mike Roberts -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Stripper/Snake Guide Color Coordination I'm sure you are aware of this, but in case not, here is an easy way to getsomevery good looking hardware with a color case hardened appearance. Ilearnedthis years ago from a friend that builds flintlocks. Buff all you piecesandclean them well with lacquer thinner. Outside (or someplace besides thekitchen) set up a hot plate and put on a pot of ATF (automatictransmissionfluid). Bring it to just below boiling and drop your hardware in. The guythattaught me this would let his lockplates, etc. soak for 3 to 5 hours, thelongeryou leave it in, the deeper the penetration. The effect is somewhat lost onsmall items like snake guides, but on larger items like slip rings andferrulesit lends a really striking effect. I've tried it on nickel silver and itworksjust fine. from if6were9@bellsouth.net Wed Aug 4 10:49:32 1999 Subject: Re: Stripper/Snake Guide Color Coordination I've always used fresh (new) ATF, but now that you ask, the guy thatintroducedme to this never did say which he used. I've done several sets of electricbassguitar hardware and two sets of fly rod hardware and I've never had anyproblemswith this method. from tom@cet-inc.com Wed Aug 4 14:25:41 1999 0000 Subject: PA/NY Gathering boundary="----=_NextPart_000_03B1_01BEDE8B.E7A4A4E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_03B1_01BEDE8B.E7A4A4E0 The reduced rate of $52 single or double occupancy at the Sleep Inn will =only be honored until August 10th. Call the Sleep Inn (717-249-8863) as =soon as possible and mention "Rodmakers Gathering" to get that rate. If =you have any other questions, you can contact me off list, but I'll be =fishing in NC from Aug 7th - 14th. Tom(Over 30 registrants so far, should be a good conference) ------=_NextPart_000_03B1_01BEDE8B.E7A4A4E0 = 11-12. The reduced rate of $52 single or double occupancy at the Sleep = only be honored until August 10th. Call the Sleep Inn (717-249-8863) as = possible and mention "Rodmakers Gathering" to get that rate. If you have = other questions, you can contact me off list, but I'll be fishing in NC = 7th - 14th. Tom conference) ------=_NextPart_000_03B1_01BEDE8B.E7A4A4E0-- from hexagon@odyssee.net Wed Aug 4 15:58:32 1999 Subject: Re: A fantastic beveler!! Hmm, his workshop is very clean, too clean, not a speck of dust.Spooky, looks like a set for a tv info-mercial. Spalding White wrote: List, for the past couple of years I have been content to remain in theshadows and attempt to glean any and all meaningful information thatmightfind its way onto the list. For that matter, the only person out there thatknows me is Chris Bogart.That said, what am I able to contribute that might be meaningful to thisgroup? Simply this, I recently purchased a rough-out beveler that I foundto be truly incredibly easy to operate, beautifully engineered andobviously expertly conceived.I suspect that there are others like me that don't have the luxury ofspending as much time in the pursuit of that perfect rod as they wouldlike, and if they are interested in a tool that will speed the processalong then they might be interested in checking out Jerry Wall's web sitehttp://www.jwflyrods.com/.So, how do I know so much about bevelers? Simply stated, I don't. At thesame time, what I do know is that this thing is so easy to work that thefirst strip that I ran through it resulted in a rough cut strip that wasflawless (wish I could say that was always the case with my handplannedones). Also I happen to own another beveler made by a person whosenamewould be recognized by most of you, and I can tell you that Mr. Wall hashit the proverbial home run.No I have absolutely no connection to Jerry Wall or any product that hemaysell, and that is not the purpose of this post. If you are interested inthis tool then check him out for yourself. As for me I will fade back intothe shadows.Spalding White from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Aug 4 17:41:00 1999 15:49:54 PDT Subject: Rapidograph Pen I'm looking for some information on Rapidograph Pens. Do they use India Ink cartridges? I could not tell from the packaging if they use india ink or some other type of ink. Are there any tricks to using them for writing on blanks? Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from anglport@con2.com Wed Aug 4 18:10:36 1999 Subject: Re: Rapidograph Pen Chris,If you don't already own one I think you'll get more mileage andenjoymentout of using a simple calligraphic dip-pen with an extremely fine nib and abottle of india ink. You write with a damp rag in one hand and when youdon't like what you did....SWIIIIIIPE and it's gone! Very easy to controlthe width of the letters and no blobs from the tip turning (or whatever thehell they do to cause such a pain).I'm not saying to pay extra forsomething that says it's for calligraphy, I just don't know what else totell you to ask for in the art store. A nib or two and a holder and you'rein business forever.Cheap too,Art At 03:47 PM 8/4/99 PDT, CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote:I'm looking for some information on Rapidograph Pens. Do they use India Ink cartridges? I could not tell from the packaging if they use india ink or some other type of ink. Are there any tricks to using them for writing on blanks? Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from mevans@acxiom.com Wed Aug 4 20:02:40 1999 (router,SLMail V3.2); Wed, 04 Aug 1999 19:55:27 -0500 (204.107.111.23::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V3.2); Wed, 04 Aug1999 19:55:26-0500 popmail.conway.acxiom.com ; Wed Aug04 19:55:25 1999 -0500 (5.5.2448.0) Subject: RE: Heat Treating Methods Thanks for the answers on heat treating. Lots of folks are usingconvectionovens and love them. Jon's improved oven on the rodmakers site seems tobe popular. Interestingly, no comments on using a soft flame torch instead of an oven. Theremust not be too much of this going on? from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Aug 4 20:07:54 1999 Subject: Re: Rapidograph Pen RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Art,This is how I have signed my rods for 20 years. I have tried some of these other ways that guys have talked about and I go right back to my old ways. YEP and it is cheap too, been using the same handle all this time.bret from anglport@con2.com Wed Aug 4 20:37:05 1999 RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Rapidograph Pen Bret,I must admit that it IS possible to break nibs (I don't know HOW I doit,I just DO it!) but that is not a necessary cost of doing business I don'tthink. I just found a guy selling various sizes at a garage sale for 25cents each and grabbed a few as I was running low on the ones I got frommygrandfather back in 1950 (!)Found some similar ones at an art store for about $3 for a pair andone ofthe pair was too wide to be usable. Guess I fell soft.Art At 09:06 PM 8/4/99 EDT, Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote:Art,This is how I have signed my rods for 20 years. I have tried some ofthese other ways that guys have talked about and I go right back to my oldways. YEP and it is cheap too, been using the same handle all this time.bret from channer@hubwest.com Wed Aug 4 21:14:47 1999 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A4159670112; Wed, 04 Aug 1999 20:16:53 MST Subject: Re: Rapidograph Pen At 09:38 PM 08/04/1999 -0400, Art Port wrote:Bret,I must admit that it IS possible to break nibs (I don't know HOW I doit,I just DO it!) but that is not a necessary cost of doing business I don'tthink. I just found a guy selling various sizes at a garage sale for 25cents each and grabbed a few as I was running low on the ones I got frommygrandfather back in 1950 (!)Found some similar ones at an art store for about $3 for a pair andone ofthe pair was too wide to be usable. Guess I fell soft.Art I must be a complete clutz, I got a handle and the finest nibs I could get,but all I could do was make scratches and splatter ink all over the place.The people that make the Pigma Micron .005 had me in mind when theyinvented it. Now all I have to do is learn how to write so somebody besidesme can read it. One of these days I may try clear labels in my printer.John from rmoon@ida.net Wed Aug 4 21:38:39 1999 0000 Subject: Re: Rapidograph Pen John I have the same problem with steel nibs and india ink. Thats why I buythose real fine line pens. HoweverI would advise against clear labels from your printer. I tried it on a rod I made recently and within aweek I had the rod back in my hands with instructions to get the damnedlabel off and sign it like a real man should. Maybe I just had a fussbudget, but no more printed labels. Ralph from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Aug 4 21:41:11 1999 Thu, 5 Aug 1999 10:43:42 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: Rapidograph Pen John,all you've got to remember is to make all the strokes downwards andtowards yourself when possible and hold the nib at an angle.If you find it tricky you should be left handed like me! Even nibs forleftys have something to be desired.If you can't get India ink, black drawing ink works ok too. Tony On Wed, 4 Aug 1999, channer wrote: At 09:38 PM 08/04/1999 -0400, Art Port wrote:Bret,I must admit that it IS possible to break nibs (I don't know HOW I doit,I just DO it!) but that is not a necessary cost of doing business I don'tthink. I just found a guy selling various sizes at a garage sale for 25cents each and grabbed a few as I was running low on the ones I got from mygrandfather back in 1950 (!)Found some similar ones at an art store for about $3 for a pair andone ofthe pair was too wide to be usable. Guess I fell soft.Art I must be a complete clutz, I got a handle and the finest nibs I could get,but all I could do was make scratches and splatter ink all over the place.The people that make the Pigma Micron .005 had me in mind when theyinvented it. Now all I have to do is learn how to write so somebodybesidesme can read it. One of these days I may try clear labels in my printer.John /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from channer@hubwest.com Wed Aug 4 21:48:18 1999 (SMTPD32-4.06) id ABF29B00112; Wed, 04 Aug 1999 20:50:26 MST Subject: Re: Rapidograph Pen At 08:27 PM 08/04/1999 -0600, Ralph W Moon wrote:John I have the same problem with steel nibs and india ink. Thats why I buythose real fine line pens. HoweverI would advise against clear labels from your printer. I tried it on a rod I made recently and within aweek I had the rod back in my hands with instructions to get the damnedlabel off and sign it like a real man should. Maybe I just had a fussbudget, but no more printed labels. Ralph Ralph;I am getting the same story from several other people. I read about doingthis on one of the "other" rodbuilding boards, I guess that people thatdon't mind wraps that look like goose eggs don't mind printer labelseither. I'll have to go to the grade school here in town and repeatpenmanship class. When I was in high school i had to take typing insummerschool so I wouldn't flunk my classes because the teachers couldn't readmypapers.John from if6were9@bellsouth.net Wed Aug 4 22:39:41 1999 Subject: Re: Rapidograph Pen Look for an old book on mechanical drawing or graphic design. Before theadvent of computers, either of these fields were big on freehandpenmanship andmost good books contained a section of tricks and exercises to helpimproveyour freehand writing skills. I had a very good book on mechanicaldrawingwhen I was in high school that helped me enough to be able to pass thecourse.I could do the drawings just fine, but the drunk chickens that insisted onwalking in the information blocks on my drawings kept me in dutch withmyteacher. She was nice enough to loan me the aforementioned book thatsaved mya** from flunking on penmanship.My experiment with printer labels was the result of a customer wanting aGrateful Dead cracked skull emblem on his rod, and nothing I said couldchangehis mind. It took me a full day and many, many tries to get one that wouldpass muster, but it still took several coats of finish to bring it level andthen it looked like a "bubble" on the blank, but he was happy enough withthelogo that he overlooked the bulge, what Lola wants............One thing I've always wanted to try for requests of this nature is silkscreening. I understand the basic process, but beyond that I'm lost. Anyoneknow where I can get information on methods, materials, etc.? from irish-george@pacbell.net Wed Aug 4 23:44:39 1999 Subject: Re: Rapidograph Pen Another option is to drop at a local artist's supply store on a night whenthey are holding a calligraphy class and see if any of the better studentsare interested in earning back their tuition (especially if they havedrawing skills such as little fly fishermen in tophats). George Bourke -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Rapidograph Pen At 08:27 PM 08/04/1999 -0600, Ralph W Moon wrote:John I have the same problem with steel nibs and india ink. Thats why I buythose real fine line pens. HoweverI would advise against clear labels from your printer. I tried it on a rod I made recently and within aweek I had the rod back in my hands with instructions to get the damnedlabel off and sign it like a real man should. Maybe I just had a fussbudget, but no more printed labels. Ralph Ralph;I am getting the same story from several other people. I read about doingthis on one of the "other" rodbuilding boards, I guess that people thatdon't mind wraps that look like goose eggs don't mind printer labelseither. I'll have to go to the grade school here in town and repeatpenmanship class. When I was in high school i had to take typing insummerschool so I wouldn't flunk my classes because the teachers couldn't readmypapers.John from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Aug 5 02:00:45 1999 Thu, 5 Aug 1999 15:02:18 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Rapidograph Pen On Wed, 4 Aug 1999, Pat Tumblin wrote: My experiment with printer labels was the result of a customer wantingaGrateful Dead cracked skull emblem on his rod, and nothing I said couldchangehis mind. It took me a full day and many, many tries to get one thatwould U gota b kidding :-) Tony /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Thu Aug 5 02:05:41 1999 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id TAA13913; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 19:05:02 +1200 Subject: Re: rod capacity Tony , Out of interest in viewing the competition I was looking at the selectionofrods in one of the local sports shops today . They only had two , out ofabout 25 , under 9 feet and had none under 5 weight. they were mainlyweight6 and 7. I have never seen a weight 4 rod for sale locally , it may be possible toget one through the big city outlets. Mind you the particular salesman in this shop also said that they never hadcane rods as they were not as good to cast with as carbon. Ian Kearney At 12:38 AM 3/08/99 +0800, Tony Young wrote: Ian would be able to comment here but I've heard it said a lot of Kiwiguides wont allow sports (punters) to fish too light for that reason. Tony On Mon, 2 Aug 1999, Brian Sturrock wrote: from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Aug 5 02:21:23 1999 CAA09481 Thu, 5 Aug 1999 15:23:14 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: rod capacity That sounds about right. The philistine in the shop prob plays RugbyLeague, bowls underarm and drinks shandys too (light beer at that).I got to know a few guides at one stage, couldn't afford to employ themjust met them frequently in huts when I was deer hunting which is whatI mostly did at that time , what a waste, and one thing they all had incommon was they all commented on people wanting to fish "under gunned". I don't remember too much about rod lengths but certainly #5 seemed a minimum of about right as far as these guides were concerned. I know I've always used a #5 and never wished for lighter. Tony On Thu, 5 Aug 1999, Ian Kearney wrote: Tony , Out of interest in viewing the competition I was looking at the selectionofrods in one of the local sports shops today . They only had two , out ofabout 25 , under 9 feet and had none under 5 weight. they were mainlyweight6 and 7. I have never seen a weight 4 rod for sale locally , it may be possible toget one through the big city outlets. Mind you the particular salesman in this shop also said that they neverhadcane rods as they were not as good to cast with as carbon. Ian Kearney At 12:38 AM 3/08/99 +0800, Tony Young wrote: Ian would be able to comment here but I've heard it said a lot of Kiwiguides wont allow sports (punters) to fish too light for that reason. Tony On Mon, 2 Aug 1999, Brian Sturrock wrote: /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from rsgould@cmc.net Thu Aug 5 07:44:50 1999 Subject: Radiographic Pen Hi to all,I too have fussed around with various ways of putting inking on the rod.The clear label idea doesn't work very well because you can still see thesort of transparent label after it's varnished and it doesn't look all thatgreat. it seems to me I recall buying a set of three Pigma Micron pens insizes 0.5, 0.3, 0.1 and found that the finest point worked the best.Another little trick in using a fine pen nib and india ink is to put a coatof varnish on the rod first where the inking will be done, it scratchesless.Ray from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Thu Aug 5 07:59:37 1999 Subject: Rapidograph Pen MC>I'm looking for some information on Rapidograph Pens. Do they useIndiaMC>Ink cartridges? I could not tell from the packaging if they use indiainkMC>or some other type of ink. Are there any tricks to using them forwritingMC>on blanks? MC>ChrisMC>mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Chris,The ones I have use cartridges. At one time, over 30 years ago, I spentsome time on the drawing board. Now every thing is CAD. I remember that these pens are fussy about being kept clean. There is avery fine wire that runs down inside the tip. The wire activates thecheck valve. If the pen is not cleaned properly after use, the inkdries and the wire is stuck in the tip. The pen then must be soaked.Some times even that doesn't work. I think that I will try some of the very fine tipped felt pens. Theyare cheaper and less trouble. Dick Fuhrman from gl@msrr.dmso.mil Thu Aug 5 09:05:56 1999 triton.dmso.mil(8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA25370 for ;Thu, 5 Aug 1999 Subject: oven tempering times folks, i built my first rod nodeless, because i didn't have an oven. but idecided that my second rod should have the nodes left in; i built jerrymcanaulty's convection oven, which seems to me like a very nice piece ofwork, and since i didn't have to do any wiring, my wife looked on withpuzzled approval. i was reviewing the directions for the oven today, andsnagged my eye on the following note: Since it is a forced air design you may have to modify tempering times since the humidity inside will not increase as the cane vaporizes its moisture when it comes to physics, this simple sailor is pretty lost. does anyonehave any guidance on tempering times in such an environment? the thingholds a remarkably steady temperature. tks. gl--------------------gary mischcdr, usn (ret.) from saweiss@flash.net Thu Aug 5 10:30:44 1999 Subject: Re: oven tempering times Gary,Try 350 deg. for about 10 min., flip the sections end-for-end, and repeat.You can work up from there if you want a slightly darker result. In myoven,I can go to 375 for 10 min. per side or 350 for 15 min per side and get anice tan result. Be aware that this is probably the most subjective part ofrodmaking and there are tremendous variations among different ovens andthermometers.Steven WeissCapt., USPHS (Ret.) folks, i built my first rod nodeless, because i didn't have an oven. but idecided that my second rod should have the nodes left in; i built jerrymcanaulty's convection oven, which seems to me like a very nice piece ofwork, and since i didn't have to do any wiring, my wife looked on withpuzzled approval. i was reviewing the directions for the oven today, andsnagged my eye on the following note:Since it is a forced air designyou may have to modify tempering times since the humidity inside willnot increase as the cane vaporizes its moisture when it comes to physics, this simple sailor is pretty lost. does anyonehave any guidance on tempering times in such an environment? the thingholds a remarkably steady temperature. tks. gl--------------------gary mischcdr, usn (ret.) from bdcreek@crosswinds.net Thu Aug 5 10:34:42 1999 (envelope- from bdcreek@crosswinds.net) Brian Sturrock ,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: rod capacity Tony et. al, The para 14 taper is a 4 wt. (okay 4-5 wt.) and I've handled several fisharound20" with it without too long of a fight. The fish were all successfullyresusitatedin a reasonable amount of time. BrianTony , Out of interest in viewing the competition I was looking at the selectionofrods in one of the local sports shops today . They only had two , out ofabout 25 , under 9 feet and had none under 5 weight. they were mainlyweight6 and 7. I have never seen a weight 4 rod for sale locally , it may be possible toget one through the big city outlets. Mind you the particular salesman in this shop also said that they neverhadcane rods as they were not as good to cast with as carbon. Ian Kearney At 12:38 AM 3/08/99 +0800, Tony Young wrote: Ian would be able to comment here but I've heard it said a lot of Kiwiguides wont allow sports (punters) to fish too light for that reason. Tony On Mon, 2 Aug 1999, Brian Sturrock wrote: from bdcreek@crosswinds.net Thu Aug 5 10:44:26 1999 (envelope- from bdcreek@crosswinds.net) Subject: Re: Rapidograph Pen Last winter my 8 year old son, Ted, and I built a pinewood derby car anduseddecals from the local hobby store. They have millions of them. Theyvarnishedfine. On lettering, you are just going to have to practice. I took two years ofdraftingback in Landscape Architecture school and never got real good at it. Theguysthat letter alot have the best looking lettering. Go figure. Brian Look for an old book on mechanical drawing or graphic design. (clip)" from JSUAREZ@impsat.com.ar Thu Aug 5 14:11:02 1999 Subject: disconnect Pablo SurezImpSat Argentina S.A.Tel.: 5411 4 362-4240 int.: 6726email: jsuarez@impsat.com.ar from channer@hubwest.com Thu Aug 5 19:17:06 1999 (SMTPD32-4.06) id AA05EC7014C; Thu, 05 Aug 1999 18:19:17 MST Subject: Don Burns Don;If you are out there, please drop me a line, I would like to ask yousomething.John from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Aug 5 20:38:38 1999 Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:40:28 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Brian Sturrock ,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: rod capacity Don't get me wrong here, I'm no fishing nazi people can catch & release,eat all they catch use #1 weight rods, I even talk to worm drowners. Ihave no opinion what ever as long as it's legal and that's only becausepresumably the laws are to protect the fish. I only mentioned the rodweight thing because I do like to release almost everything I catchincluding marine fish and I've come to the conclusion that too long afight prob does kill fish if not outright, then later due to stressrelated problems. In the case of marine fish taking too long to catchsomething can induce a shark to take the fish which I guess is stressrelated death of the worst kind ;-). This idea came to me mainly by way of observation (in a very minorway) and conversation around the [eski (Aust)], [chilli bin (kiwi)], [cooler (US)] with NZ fishing guides in a major way. The other thing too is you can play a fish too long an anything if youintend to release it. Tony On Thu, 5 Aug 1999 bdcreek@crosswinds.net wrote: Tony et. al, The para 14 taper is a 4 wt. (okay 4-5 wt.) and I've handled several fisharound20" with it without too long of a fight. The fish were all successfullyresusitatedin a reasonable amount of time. BrianTony , Out of interest in viewing the competition I was looking at theselection ofrods in one of the local sports shops today . They only had two , out ofabout 25 , under 9 feet and had none under 5 weight. they were mainlyweight6 and 7. I have never seen a weight 4 rod for sale locally , it may be possible toget one through the big city outlets. Mind you the particular salesman in this shop also said that they neverhadcane rods as they were not as good to cast with as carbon. Ian Kearney At 12:38 AM 3/08/99 +0800, Tony Young wrote: Ian would be able to comment here but I've heard it said a lot of Kiwiguides wont allow sports (punters) to fish too light for that reason. Tony On Mon, 2 Aug 1999, Brian Sturrock wrote: /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from bdcreek@crosswinds.net Thu Aug 5 21:08:30 1999 (envelope- from bdcreek@crosswinds.net) Brian Sturrock ,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: rod capacity boundary="------------3CD5B938221DFFBEB14A5DD5" --------------3CD5B938221DFFBEB14A5DD5 Tony - Not implying you are a radical yuppie flyfisherperson, just sayingthat even a lighter rod can do a good job if you are not afraid to useit. I have fought some fish and waited for the rod failure I knew wasimminent. But it never came. One Colorado guide said he couldn'tbelieve my rod would bend more than double and not break. The oldbamboo is magical stuff.And for those of us who make rods, breakin' one we built on a fishin the interest of science and fishy welfare shouldn't be too scary athought. (An old Dickerson or Payne is a different story.) Match yourterminal tackle to the conditions and game and land 'em or lose 'em in areasonable amount of time for the given day. I release everythinganyway (well, I have been known to eat a brookie or a whitefish onoccasion) so a fish fairly lost is just another part of the game.Killing a fish just to prove I can catch him on 9x tippet isn't. Brian --------------3CD5B938221DFFBEB14A5DD5 Tony - flyfisherperson,just saying that even a lighter rod can do a good job if you are not afraid said he couldn't believe my rod would bend more than double and not The old bamboo is magical stuff. we built on a fish in the interest of science and fishy welfare shouldn't land 'em or lose 'em in a reasonable amount of time for the given I release everything anyway (well, I have been known to eat a brookie ora whitefish on occasion) so a fish fairly lost is just another part of isn't.Brian --------------3CD5B938221DFFBEB14A5DD5-- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Aug 5 21:21:20 1999 Fri, 6 Aug 1999 10:23:56 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Brian Sturrock ,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: rod capacity Agreed, if conditions dictate light tackle and you're prepared to breakfish off there is no harm and it's still good fun. But I will repeat Ipersonaly don't care how anybody likes to fish, but you may as well keepany fish that's over played.I've just realised from reading there are strictly catch & release areasin the US? There is nothing like that out this way so the ethical dilemadosn't run so deep. Tony On Thu, 5 Aug 1999, Brian D. Creek wrote: Tony - Not implying you are a radical yuppie flyfisherperson, just sayingthat even a lighter rod can do a good job if you are not afraid to useit. I have fought some fish and waited for the rod failure I knew wasimminent. But it never came. One Colorado guide said he couldn'tbelieve my rod would bend more than double and not break. The oldbamboo is magical stuff.And for those of us who make rods, breakin' one we built on a fishin the interest of science and fishy welfare shouldn't be too scary athought. (An old Dickerson or Payne is a different story.) Match yourterminal tackle to the conditions and game and land 'em or lose 'em in areasonable amount of time for the given day. I release everythinganyway (well, I have been known to eat a brookie or a whitefish onoccasion) so a fish fairly lost is just another part of the game.Killing a fish just to prove I can catch him on 9x tippet isn't. Brian /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Aug 5 21:59:20 1999 Subject: Re: Rapidograph Pen John,Tony etal,I guess I may have an advantage here as when I was growing up we had tolearn how to use this type of pen in school. Bret from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Fri Aug 6 08:25:43 1999 Subject: Re: Rapidograph Pen BD>CADD indeed! BD>Brian Brian,CADD is a valuable tool. Pieces of an object can be assembled on CADDprior to actually building the pieces to check for fit and alignment.Can't do that with paper drawings. Also, CADD files can be sent tofabrication machinery ( Lazer Cutter, etc. ) thus eliminating laying thepiece out a second time on actual material and thus eliminating layouterrors. This speeds prototyping and in a lot of cases assembly.Equipment like Lazer Cutters can be used for precision cuttingeliminating the need for hard tooling on low volume pieces. CADD is agood tool for some applications. Dick Fuhrman from pdcorlis@mail.ior.com Fri Aug 6 11:40:04 1999 0000 (206.107.129.90) Subject: Casting the Bastard... Ok, let me get the disclaimers out of the way first. I am not employed byor related toGeorge Gehrke. I am not a PR man for the Bastard Bamboo Rod works. I ama collegeinstructor and a fly fishing nut. While I now live in Coeur d1Alene Idaho, Igrew upjust down the Snake river from George1s place near Hells Canyon. And Iam, by hisaccount, the first member of the general public to cast one of his BastardBamboo flyrods... and its an honor and a treat! On a visit to my parents last weekend I called George on the phone and hewas niceenough to chat with me for a while. Yes, it ends up I visited him and sawmost of thefactory where he1s building the rods, but I won1t and can1t offer anymore about hisoperation than you can get from his website. I will say there1s some verycreativethinking and sophisticated design work going on there. After taking turns casting one of his flamed 7 1/21 4 wt rods in a grassyfield alongthe banks of the Snake River George turned to me grinning and asked 3CanGeorge build afly rod?2 I grinned back and said 3YES!2 This Bastard Bamboo rod castslike a dream.It1s well balanced, light in the hand, and tossed cast after cast of 301 -501 without awhimper. The sweet smooth medium action was well suited to my castingstroke and like agood book... it was hard to put it down. The components are all first rate and fit and finish are fine. My onlycomplaint wasthe thread wrap spacing on a few of the guides seemed a bit erratic, but Iwas castingrod #2... so I bet that minor problem has been ironed out by now. By theway, I saw notjust one rod, but a dozen or more completed and ready to go out the door. Ialso sawlots of rods in progress. Folks this operation is for real and its happeningNOW. Finally, Yes... I am saving up to get one of these fine rods and can1t waitto have anative west slope cutthroat on the other end of the line. I can1t seem toget this rodout of my mind... you know the feeling... Think what you want about Mr.Gehrke,personally I found him to be both kind and generous. But know that hisBastard Bamboorod business is real and the rods are a blast to cast! Flame if you must...Phil Corlis from gholland@navsys.com Fri Aug 6 11:55:28 1999 Subject: Sources for hardwood List - I was curious about what you have found to be the best source for maple,etc... I'm getting set to make roughing forms and find that it isn'tsomething you can just pick up at the corner lumber store. I can get itordered but I was wondering if there is any advice so that I don't getripped off. Thanks! Greg Hollandgholland@navsys.com from angelruten@smile.ch Fri Aug 6 12:09:32 1999 Subject: Taper transcription boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BEE03E.C4129960" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BEE03E.C4129960 Hello Friends shure a question made earlier in this list, but it is possible to =transcript a taper from an carbon rod to a bamboo rod? Thanks for all thoughts Stefan S. Grau`s *atelier edelweiss*Seftigenstr. 20 CH-3007 BernTel/Fax: 0041 (0) 31 372 91 85, ab 19.00 / from 7.pm CET-mail: atelier: angelruten@smile.chprivat: fishing@freesurf.ch ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BEE03E.C4129960 Hello Friends shure a question made earlier in this list, but it = to transcript a taper from an carbon rod to a bamboo rod? Thanks for all thoughts Stefan S. Grau`s *atelier = 20 CH-3007 BernTel/Fax: 0041(0) 31 = ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BEE03E.C4129960-- from bdcreek@crosswinds.net Fri Aug 6 12:17:12 1999 (envelope- from bdcreek@crosswinds.net) "Brian D. Creek" ,Ian Kearney ,Brian Sturrock ,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: rod capacity Tony - Oh yeah, there are several streams and portions thereof where posessionof fishis against the law. If you over play or deeply hook a fish, and you knowit'sgoing to die anyway, you still have to put it back or risk prosecution andsiezureof your tackle and in some places your vehicle! No conflict! Brian Agreed, if conditions dictate light tackle and you're prepared to breakfish off there is no harm and it's still good fun. But I will repeat Ipersonaly don't care how anybody likes to fish, but you may as well keepany fish that's over played.I've just realised from reading there are strictly catch & release areasin the US? There is nothing like that out this way so the ethical dilemadosn't run so deep. Tony On Thu, 5 Aug 1999, Brian D. Creek wrote: Tony - Not implying you are a radical yuppie flyfisherperson, just sayingthat even a lighter rod can do a good job if you are not afraid to useit. I have fought some fish and waited for the rod failure I knew wasimminent. But it never came. One Colorado guide said he couldn'tbelieve my rod would bend more than double and not break. The oldbamboo is magical stuff.And for those of us who make rods, breakin' one we built on a fishin the interest of science and fishy welfare shouldn't be too scary athought. (An old Dickerson or Payne is a different story.) Match yourterminal tackle to the conditions and game and land 'em or lose 'em in areasonable amount of time for the given day. I release everythinganyway (well, I have been known to eat a brookie or a whitefish onoccasion) so a fish fairly lost is just another part of the game.Killing a fish just to prove I can catch him on 9x tippet isn't. Brian /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from irish-george@pacbell.net Fri Aug 6 14:17:51 1999 Subject: Re: Radiographic Pen A possible solution (I haven't tried it so not positive it'll work). Take alook at a Mini-Mark (hobbiest tools) catalog or visit their website(http://www.minimark.com). They sell a decal paper for inkjets andlaserjets and a kit of liquids that is supposed to make it so that you can'ttell it's a decal (highly desirable that you cannot tell on models, too).Looks like it'd cost about $20-25 to find out. George Bourke -----Original Message----- Subject: Radiographic Pen Hi to all,I too have fussed around with various ways of putting inking on the rod.The clear label idea doesn't work very well because you can still see thesort of transparent label after it's varnished and it doesn't look all thatgreat. it seems to me I recall buying a set of three Pigma Micron pens insizes 0.5, 0.3, 0.1 and found that the finest point worked the best.Another little trick in using a fine pen nib and india ink is to put a coatof varnish on the rod first where the inking will be done, it scratchesless.Ray from mevans@acxiom.com Fri Aug 6 17:55:16 1999 (router,SLMail V3.2); Fri, 06 Aug 1999 17:47:53 -0500 (204.107.111.23::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V3.2); Fri, 06 Aug1999 17:47:53-0500 popmail.conway.acxiom.com ; Fri Aug06 17:47:52 1999 -0500 (5.5.2448.0) Subject: Crooked Creek This is slightly off subject, but I hope you agree that it is important. Crooked Creek, located near Arkansas White River, is one of the USA'spremier and mostendangered smallmouth streams. For the past several years, Dave Whitlock has leadmuch of thefight to preserve this resource from the damaging effects of poorly regulated gravel mining. The Arkansas Pollution and Ecology Commission is accepting comments onpendinglegislation whichwill help preserve this valuable national resource. Comments are beingaccepted throughAugust 26. The following web site is set up for you to easily submit a comment insupport of thislegislation. http://www.flyshop.com/Centers/index.cfm?category=sou I have been told by the Arkansas Game and Fish Commission trout biologistthat a smallnumberof written comments carry tremendous weight in influencing proposedregulations. Thisissue in general has beenheavily influenced by political wheeling and dealing which would turn yourstomach tohear the details. Therefore, a show of public support is invaluable. Rulings in a recent law suit fellshort ofproviding the needed level protection for the stream. Again, I realize that this is somewhat off topic. But I believe this is anappropriateexception. Thanks, P.S. Crooked Creek is a very short drive of this year's SouthernRodmaker's Gathering. from mevans@acxiom.com Fri Aug 6 18:15:31 1999 (router,SLMail V3.2); Fri, 06 Aug 1999 18:08:10 -0500 (204.107.111.23::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V3.2); Fri, 06 Aug1999 18:08:10-0500 popmail.conway.acxiom.com ; Fri Aug06 18:08:09 1999 -0500 (5.5.2448.0) Subject: Crooked Creek - Readable ***********************************************************Friends,I don't know about you, but when this came back to meit was very difficult to read due to reformatting and fontchanges. Maybe this will help. Sorry for the extra traffic ...**********************************************************This is slightly off subject, but I hope you agree that it is important. Crooked Creek, located near Arkansas White River, is one of theUSA's premier and most endangered smallmouth streams. fight to preserve this resource from the damaging effects of poorlyregulated gravel mining. The Arkansas Pollution and Ecology Commission is acceptingcomments on pending legislation which will help preserve thisvaluable national resource. Comments are being accepted throughAugust 26. The following web site is set up for you to easily submita comment in support of this legislation. http://www.flyshop.com/Centers/index.cfm?category=sou I have been told by the Arkansas Game and Fish Commissiontrout biologist that a small number of written comments carrytremendous weight in influencing proposed regulations. This issue in general has been heavily influenced by political wheelingand dealing which would turn your stomach to hear the details. Therefore, a show of public support is invaluable. Rulings in arecent law suit fell short of providing the needed level protection Again, I realize that this is somewhat off topic.But I believe this is an appropriate exception. Thanks, P.S. Crooked Creek is a very short drive of this year's Southern Rodmaker's Gathering. from Craig.Naldrett@ibm.net Fri Aug 6 18:48:08 1999 (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA22814; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 23:48:02 GMT Subject: Re: oven tempering times Was having coffee with a friend & talking about varying results I wasgetting with heat tempering(mica strip unit in 4" & 7" round duct pipe),same temp/times has produced different amount of color change (up tocharring in one case).Discussion went "it would be nice to see what'sgoing on", as he poured more coffee. Well light went on, bought asilex/glass coffee urn at a garage sale, sawed out a section & mountedit on my oven. Cut a hole through duct pipes, sealed around glasssection (about same radius as oven) with hi- temp insulation & now cansee into the middle of my oven to judge color change in real time.CheersCraig from tklein@amgen.com Fri Aug 6 19:26:24 1999 smtp.amgen.com via smap (3.2) Subject: RE: Sources for hardwood Don't get hung up on using maple. Most of the large home improvement stores have a section that has selecthardwood that is already finely finished through a jointer. Just try to findsomething that is very finely grained. I tried oak the first time, but wasn't happy with the open grain. Poplarseems to be readily available in most of the stores and worked fine forme. I use a single 8 foot 1x2. I think it runs about 8 bucks.---Tim ----------From: Greg Holland[SMTP:gholland@navsys.com] Sent: Friday, August 06, 1999 10:57 AM Subject: Sources for hardwood List - I was curious about what you have found to be the best source for maple,etc... I'm getting set to make roughing forms and find that it isn'tsomething you can just pick up at the corner lumber store. I can get itordered but I was wondering if there is any advice so that I don't getripped off. Thanks! Greg Hollandgholland@navsys.com from Canerods@aol.com Fri Aug 6 19:39:09 1999 Subject: Hardy Rod info needed All, I just picked up a ~9' Hardy Palakana - "#2 The Deluxe" that is in decent shape except the stripper guide has been rewrapped and maybe replaced.The "snakes" are all ultra tiny, very skinny wire casting or stripper type guides, the stripper is a standard Mildrum metal stripper that looks to be too "over- built" to be original. Anyone know what the original stripper would be and does anyone have one sale? Thanks Don Burns PS - Is it normal for the rod section to be of slightly different length (both tips are the same length!) with Hardy rods? All the ferrule wraps appear to be original and so damage seems out of the question. from dickay@alltel.net Fri Aug 6 20:57:41 1999 UAA13354; "'RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu'" Subject: Re: Sources for hardwood Greg,Look in the phone book for hardwoods and lumber yards. I found a smallcompany in town that supplies cabinet shops and hobbyests. I was able tobuy a 1"x8"x 8" piece of hard maple rather cheaply. It was rough sawn sothat I could finish it to the thickness I wanted. They also have otherwoods. If you have to order it, the L.L. Johnson Company www.theworkbench.comare good people to work with. They are in Michigan and Indiana so I havenoconnection as I am in Arkansas. Dick Fuhrman from brewer@teleport.com Fri Aug 6 23:43:07 1999 (216.26.32.158) 0700 Subject: Barney and Berry Query A friend of mine has asked me to look into restoring an old 9' three piece rod marked "Barney and Berry, IND, #7552". I have not seen the rod yet, but was unable to locate any information on the maker from the books I have. Does anyone has any info on Barney and Berry? Randy Brewerbrewer@teleport.com from angelruten@smile.ch Sat Aug 7 00:14:14 1999 Subject: Taper transcription boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BEE0A3.B616EF40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BEE0A3.B616EF40 Hello Friends shure a question made earlier in this list, but it is possible to =transcript 1 to 1 a taper from an carbon rod to a bamboo rod? Thanks for all thoughts Stefan ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BEE0A3.B616EF40 Hello Friends shure a question made earlier in this list, but it = to transcript 1 to 1 a taper from an carbon rod to a bamboo =rod? Thanks for all thoughts Stefan ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BEE0A3.B616EF40-- from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Sat Aug 7 05:43:29 1999 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id WAA19847; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 22:43:09 +1200 Subject: Re: Hardy Rod info needed Don, Turner's book list the De Lux as being built between 1915 and 1957 . Giventhe very small guides it is likely to be earlier then later however Hardy'sdid still contuinue with small guides untill the 1970's. If it has a numberon it let me know and I can tell you the year. Most later Hardy rods had a " Agatipe" stripper guide and tip which was , Iguess, an artificial agate. The other guides were like small stripperguides, called "fullopen bridge intermediates" by Hardy . To complicate matters , and make me sound maybe more expert then I am ,Ipicked up a 1966 Hardy's catalogue today which has them listed for salesoTurner may have the production dates wrong. from my experience however I would suggest that the stripper wasoriginallyan agate imitation , probably with the colour of the agate matching thecolour of the tip. The size would be considerably smaller then would bestandard today. I have had a look in my "bits and Pieces " box andunfortunately do not have any . I have tended to use the ones I had on rodsI have built no doubt something I will regret in the future. And yes, it is very common in Hardy rods for the tip to be slightly shorter, up to 1" , then the butt section . I do not know whether it was somethingto do with the "tuning" of the rod or just the way they did it . regards Ian Kearney At 08:38 PM 6/08/99 EDT, Canerods@aol.com wrote:All, I just picked up a ~9' Hardy Palakana - "#2 The Deluxe" that is in decent shape except the stripper guide has been rewrapped and maybe replaced.The "snakes" are all ultra tiny, very skinny wire casting or stripper type guides, the stripper is a standard Mildrum metal stripper that looks to be too "over- built" to be original. Anyone know what the original stripper would be and does anyone haveone for sale? Thanks Don Burns PS - Is it normal for the rod section to be of slightly different length (both tips are the same length!) with Hardy rods? All the ferrule wraps appear to be original and so damage seems out of the question. from jf_gray@ix.netcom.com Sat Aug 7 09:55:51 1999 09:55:15 -0500 ix1.ix.netcom.com viasmap (V1.3) Subject: JW Flyrods I am new to bamboo flyrod building, so I asked around to see if therewere any builders in my neck of the woods that would be willing to showme the ropes a bit. Jerry of JW flyrods took me up on it and I drovedown and checked out his shop. First of all, he was extremely helpfuland a genuinely nice guy. He explained quite a lot about how to makethese things and he also showed me his new beveler, which works great.I am not trying to help him sell these things (heck they will sellthemselves). I am trying to sell the idea of some of you moreexperienced guys helping out some of us new guys. It was a realpleasure to be able to sit and ask questions and see how some of thisstuff is done. Building bamboo flyrods is an art. Yes there are somewho think of it primarily as a business, but the hand planed beauties Ihave seen are works of art. Passing on some of the skills andtechinques to this art will keep it alive not threaten your business.So be kind and generous and try to help the new guys. I just wanted to say thanks to Jerry and to all of you guys helping outthe new guys, either through the list or your web pages, and especiallyto those that have invited a new guy into your shop and shown him theropes. Oh, by the way, the infomercial crack about his shop is prettyfunny when you see that it's just his garage set among fields. Hisgarage is spotless because Jerry is just a very miticulous guy. Itactually inspired me to organize my shop a little better. Again, thanks Jerry, and all you guys helping the people just learning. from weehughie@home.com Sat Aug 7 17:20:55 1999 (InterMail v4.01.01.07 201-229-111-110) with SMTP Sat, 7 Aug 1999 15:20:45 -0700 Subject: RE: JW Flyrods You maybe interested in the Custom Rod Builders Guild Conclave for theyear2000. Although there will be a strong graphite (plastic to some on thelist) focus, there is also going to be a split cane segment as well. It ismy understanding that some bamboo rod makers will be there. More information maybe found at http://www.rodguild.com/ Ian ScottFlyfishinghttp://flyfishing.about.com/ -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: August 7, 1999 10:54 AM Subject: JW Flyrods I am new to bamboo flyrod building, so I asked around to see if therewere any builders in my neck of the woods that would be willing to showme the ropes a bit. Jerry of JW flyrods took me up on it and I drovedown and checked out his shop. First of all, he was extremely helpfuland a genuinely nice guy. He explained quite a lot about how to makethese things and he also showed me his new beveler, which works great.I am not trying to help him sell these things (heck they will sellthemselves). I am trying to sell the idea of some of you moreexperienced guys helping out some of us new guys. It was a realpleasure to be able to sit and ask questions and see how some of thisstuff is done. Building bamboo flyrods is an art. Yes there are somewho think of it primarily as a business, but the hand planed beauties Ihave seen are works of art. Passing on some of the skills andtechinques to this art will keep it alive not threaten your business.So be kind and generous and try to help the new guys. I just wanted to say thanks to Jerry and to all of you guys helping outthe new guys, either through the list or your web pages, and especiallyto those that have invited a new guy into your shop and shown him theropes. Oh, by the way, the infomercial crack about his shop is prettyfunny when you see that it's just his garage set among fields. Hisgarage is spotless because Jerry is just a very miticulous guy. Itactually inspired me to organize my shop a little better. Again, thanks Jerry, and all you guys helping the people just learning. Ian H. ScottProviding Goal Centered Internet SolutionsPairoWoodies Publishinghttp://www.absolute-sway.com/ Fly Fishing Links and Resourceshttp://flyfishing.about.com/ ********************************************"A single conversation across the table with a wise man is better than tenyears study of books"- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow from weehughie@home.com Sat Aug 7 17:28:29 1999 (InterMail v4.01.01.07 201-229-111-110) with SMTP Sat, 7 Aug 1999 15:28:21 -0700 Subject: RE: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) As anglers, we need to become more careful about C & R and ensure thatthereis not a lot of hypocrocy. We also need to understand that C & R playsright into the hands of the animal rights loonies. Note the recentadvertisement by PETA in New York State 'starring' the late Mrs.McCartney,asking the question (I don't have the exact quote in front of me.. but tothe effect) 'Have you ever seen a fish breathe out of water?' The pointcould be taken that C & R is even more 'unethical', whatever that termmeans, than catching fish for the purpose of eating them for dinner. 'Catch & Release Revisited: Sport or Merely Fish Rodeo?'http://flyfishing.about.com/library/weekly/aa061199.htm and 'The Day Gink Caused A Stink'http://flyfishing.about.com/library/weekly/aa060299.htm Comments are invited!! :) Ian Scott -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: August 5, 1999 9:40 PM Cc: Ian Kearney; Brian Sturrock; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: rod capacity Don't get me wrong here, I'm no fishing nazi people can catch & release,eat all they catch use #1 weight rods, I even talk to worm drowners. Ihave no opinion what ever as long as it's legal and that's only becausepresumably the laws are to protect the fish. I only mentioned the rodweight thing because I do like to release almost everything I catchincluding marine fish and I've come to the conclusion that too long afight prob does kill fish if not outright, then later due to stressrelated problems. In the case of marine fish taking too long to catchsomething can induce a shark to take the fish which I guess is stress>related death of the worst kind ;-). This idea came to me mainly by way of observation (in a very minorway) and conversation around the [eski (Aust)], [chilli bin (kiwi)],[cooler (US)] with NZ fishing guides in a major way.The other thing too is you can play a fish too long an anything if youintend to release it. Tony On Thu, 5 Aug 1999 bdcreek@crosswinds.net wrote: Tony et. al, The para 14 taper is a 4 wt. (okay 4-5 wt.) and I've handledseveral fish around20" with it without too long of a fight. The fish were allsuccessfully resusitatedin a reasonable amount of time. BrianTony , Out of interest in viewing the competition I was looking atthe selection ofrods in one of the local sports shops today . They only hadtwo , out ofabout 25 , under 9 feet and had none under 5 weight. they weremainly weight6 and 7. I have never seen a weight 4 rod for sale locally , it may bepossible toget one through the big city outlets. Mind you the particular salesman in this shop also said thatthey never hadcane rods as they were not as good to cast with as carbon. Ian Kearney At 12:38 AM 3/08/99 +0800, Tony Young wrote: Ian would be able to comment here but I've heard it said a lot of Kiwiguides wont allow sports (punters) to fish too light for that reason. Tony On Mon, 2 Aug 1999, Brian Sturrock wrote: /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb?A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from anglport@con2.com Sat Aug 7 18:32:56 1999 Subject: RE: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) specials(many years back), Jacques Cousteau proclaimed that fishermen whoreleasetheir catch are perverting the idea of fishing. He went on to say thatbasically, if you aren't going to eat your catch, you shouldn't bebothering the fish!If PETA hasn't gotten hold of THAT one, wait'll they do!Art At 06:24 PM 8/7/99 -0400, Ian Scott wrote:As anglers, we need to become more careful about C & R and ensure thatthereis not a lot of hypocrocy. We also need to understand that C & R playsright into the hands of the animal rights loonies. Note the recentadvertisement by PETA in New York State 'starring' the late Mrs.McCartney,asking the question (I don't have the exact quote in front of me.. but tothe effect) 'Have you ever seen a fish breathe out of water?' The pointcould be taken that C & R is even more 'unethical', whatever that termmeans, than catching fish for the purpose of eating them for dinner. 'Catch & Release Revisited: Sport or Merely Fish Rodeo?'http://flyfishing.about.com/library/weekly/aa061199.htm and 'The Day Gink Caused A Stink'http://flyfishing.about.com/library/weekly/aa060299.htm Comments are invited!! :) Ian Scott -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: August 5, 1999 9:40 PM Cc: Ian Kearney; Brian Sturrock; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: rod capacity Don't get me wrong here, I'm no fishing nazi people can catch & release,eat all they catch use #1 weight rods, I even talk to worm drowners. Ihave no opinion what ever as long as it's legal and that's only becausepresumably the laws are to protect the fish. I only mentioned the rodweight thing because I do like to release almost everything I catchincluding marine fish and I've come to the conclusion that too long afight prob does kill fish if not outright, then later due to stressrelated problems. In the case of marine fish taking too long to catchsomething can induce a shark to take the fish which I guess is stressrelated death of the worst kind ;-). This idea came to me mainly by way of observation (in a very minorway) and conversation around the [eski (Aust)], [chilli bin (kiwi)],[cooler (US)] with NZ fishing guides in a major way.The other thing too is you can play a fish too long an anything if youintend to release it. Tony On Thu, 5 Aug 1999 bdcreek@crosswinds.net wrote: Tony et. al, The para 14 taper is a 4 wt. (okay 4-5 wt.) and I've handledseveral fish around20" with it without too long of a fight. The fish were allsuccessfully resusitatedin a reasonable amount of time. BrianTony , Out of interest in viewing the competition I was looking atthe selection ofrods in one of the local sports shops today . They only hadtwo , out ofabout 25 , under 9 feet and had none under 5 weight. they weremainly weight6 and 7. I have never seen a weight 4 rod for sale locally , it may bepossible toget one through the big city outlets. Mind you the particular salesman in this shop also said thatthey never hadcane rods as they were not as good to cast with as carbon. Ian Kearney At 12:38 AM 3/08/99 +0800, Tony Young wrote: Ian would be able to comment here but I've heard it said a lot ofKiwiguides wont allow sports (punters) to fish too light for that reason. Tony On Mon, 2 Aug 1999, Brian Sturrock wrote: /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb?A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from rcurry@ttlc.net Sat Aug 7 19:21:02 1999 (SMTPD32-5.01) id ADE8157B00BE; Sat, 07 Aug 1999 20:23:04 EDT Subject: Re: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) Art,I've been very quiet on this subject, as we seem to go over this groundonce ayear. However, I can't demure forever, so...This philosophical position has been around for at least a century. I, forone,concur with it... for my own pleasure on stream. In fact, I gave up flyfishing forten years simply because I wasn't killing and eating the fish.The modern view of sport fishing, which involves a religious adherenceto Catchand Release, was initiated by businessmen such as Lee Wulff, who ownedsport camps,or guided fishermen, and wanted to provide the maximum attraction fortheir sports.Wind-up fish hadn't been invented, so Lee decided to offer re-cycled fish."A fishis too valuable (to him) to use just once". This view seems antithetical toanacknowledgement of fish as a part of a natural world which man shouldnurture andprotect. How strange that the proponents of C&R seem to have a smugself-righteousness, when, in point of fact, they are merely abusing fish. IequateC&R to a snowmobilier who chases deer through deep snow. Eventually, theanimalfounders, exhausted, and the proud sportsman walks up, forces the deer'shead underthe snow with his boot, takes a picture, and then sets off for other quarry.There are many valid fishery management policies, e.g., slot limits,trophysections, mandatory kill sections, regulated entry, etc. C&R is, IMHO, abarbaric,de-humanizing practice that may well provide PETA with all theammunition they needto bring sport fishing down. ******** The fairly strong language above is directed toward the religionof C&R,not the practicioners, many of whom I know and enjoy fishing with.***********Art, should you see me frying a few fish for lunch by the waterside,please comeover, you're welcome to join me.Best regards,Reed"Don't Catch Your Limit, Limit Your Catch." Art Port wrote: specials(many years back), Jacques Cousteau proclaimed that fishermen whoreleasetheir catch are perverting the idea of fishing. He went on to say thatbasically, if you aren't going to eat your catch, you shouldn't bebothering the fish!If PETA hasn't gotten hold of THAT one, wait'll they do!Art from saweiss@flash.net Sun Aug 8 02:44:22 1999 Subject: dipping boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01BEE127.0F573460" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BEE127.0F573460 Not that anyone on this list is opinionated, but does anyone have an =opinion about what is the best way to dip a tip section when =varnishing--tip up or tip down.I am thinking that tip down may result in a thicker coating towards =the tip than one would get by dipping with the tip up.Steven Weiss ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BEE127.0F573460 that anyone on this list is opinionated, but does anyone have an opinion = what is the best way to dip a tip section when varnishing--tip up or tip = down. thinking that tip down may result in a thicker coating towards the tip = would get by dipping with the tip up. Weiss ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BEE127.0F573460-- from anglport@con2.com Sun Aug 8 06:40:32 1999 Subject: Re: dipping That was my experience. Alas you sometimes wind up with tears as itthinsout running down when you orient it the other way.....Ya pays yer money andya takes yer cherce!Art At 10:49 PM 8/7/99 -0600, Steven Weiss wrote:Not that anyone on this list is opinionated, but does anyone havean opinion about what is the best way to dip a tip section whenvarnishing--tip up or tip down. I am thinking that tip down mayresult in a thicker coating towards the tip than one would get by dippingwith the tip up. Steven Weiss from rsgould@cmc.net Sun Aug 8 07:37:12 1999 Subject: Dipping Hi Steve,In regards to which end up when dipping - I'm in the camp of small end upso as to minimize the runs. I will have to admit however, there are timesin rod building that cause one to wonder which end is really up.Ray from channer@hubwest.com Sun Aug 8 07:53:01 1999 (SMTPD32-4.06) id AE11190014A; Sun, 08 Aug 1999 06:54:41 MST Subject: Re: dipping At 10:49 PM 08/07/1999 -0600, Steven Weiss wrote:Not that anyone on this list is opinionated, but does anyone havean opinion about what is the best way to dip a tip section whenvarnishing--tip up or tip down. I am thinking that tip down mayresult in a thicker coating towards the tip than one would get by dippingwith the tip up. Steven Weiss Steve;I've done it both ways without problems and both ways with problems, gofigure. I do think you need to wait longer at the guide wraps when you pulltip down, but I've taken to waiting the absolute limit of my patience atthe guides anyway. I don't know for sure why it is(I suspect something todo with sanding), but my first coat always come out flawless, it's thesecond coat that gives me fits. The next rod i'm going to varnish first,then wrap the guides. I guess all the books tell you to wrap first, thenvarnish and I've just developed the habit from there.John from irish-george@pacbell.net Mon Aug 9 10:18:54 1999 "'RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu'" Subject: Re: Sources for hardwood A couple other ideas: 1) There is a very large (nationwide?) chain of hardwood lumber storescalled "Berea Hardwoods"2) Call custom cabinet shops...maybe you can pick up some "drops" (scrapstoo small to be of use to them)3) Then there is always Constantine's (1-800-223-8087)4) Check the ads in the back of Fine Woodworking magazine...lots ofhardwoodlumber dealers...some offer "sample packs" so you can get a variety ofwoods George Bourke(no business interest in any company named above) -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Sources for hardwood Greg,Look in the phone book for hardwoods and lumber yards. I found a smallcompany in town that supplies cabinet shops and hobbyests. I was able tobuy a 1"x8"x 8" piece of hard maple rather cheaply. It was rough sawn sothat I could finish it to the thickness I wanted. They also have otherwoods. If you have to order it, the L.L. Johnson Company www.theworkbench.comare good people to work with. They are in Michigan and Indiana so I havenoconnection as I am in Arkansas. Dick Fuhrman from gl@msrr.dmso.mil Mon Aug 9 10:27:04 1999 triton.dmso.mil(8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA16070 for ;Mon, 9 Aug 1999 Subject: urac-kicker ratio folks, i noticed that the urac can recommends 2 parts resin to 1 part kicker;wayne's book recommends 4 parts resin to 1 part kicker. my question is:which is correct for rod making? it was asked a few years back, butaccording to the archives, was not answered on list. would someone beableto advise on the best ratio for gluing up bamboo? i'd also be curious as towhether using less catalyst gives longer pot life. tks gl-------------------- gary mischcdr, usn (ret.) from anglport@con2.com Mon Aug 9 10:30:56 1999 Subject: Test from anglport@con2.com Mon Aug 9 10:31:00 1999 Subject: Re: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) All,Reed Curry sent me this and asked that I forward it to the list.Art Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 10:09:14 -0400From: Reed Curry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)X-Accept-Language: en Subject: Re: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) Art,I've been very quiet on this subject, as we seem to go over thisground once ayear. However, I can't demure forever, so...This philosophical position has been around for at least a century. I, concur with it... for my own pleasure on stream. In fact, I gave up flyfishing forten years simply because I wasn't killing and eating the fish.The modern view of sport fishing, which involves a religious adherenceto Catchand Release, was initiated by businessmen such as Lee Wulff, who ownedsport camps,or guided fishermen, and wanted to provide the maximum attraction fortheir sports.Wind-up fish hadn't been invented, so Lee decided to offer re-cycled fish."A fishis too valuable (to him) to use just once". This view seems antitheticalto anacknowledgement of fish as a part of a natural world which man shouldnurture andprotect. How strange that the proponents of C&R seem to have a smugself-righteousness, when, in point of fact, they are merely abusing fish.I equateC&R to a snowmobilier who chases deer through deep snow. Eventually,theanimalfounders, exhausted, and the proud sportsman walks up, forces the deer'shead underthe snow with his boot, takes a picture, and then sets off for otherquarry.There are many valid fishery management policies, e.g., slot limits,trophysections, mandatory kill sections, regulated entry, etc. C&R is, IMHO, abarbaric,de-humanizing practice that may well provide PETA with all theammunitionthey needto bring sport fishing down. ******** The fairly strong language above is directed toward thereligionof C&R,not the practicioners, many of whom I know and enjoy fishing with.***********Art, should you see me frying a few fish for lunch by the waterside,please come over, you're welcome to join me.Best regards,Reed"Don't Catch Your Limit, Limit Your Catch." Art Port wrote: specials(many years back), Jacques Cousteau proclaimed that fishermen whoreleasetheir catch are perverting the idea of fishing. He went on to say thatbasically, if you aren't going to eat your catch, you shouldn't bebothering the fish!If PETA hasn't gotten hold of THAT one, wait'll they do!Art from jswitzer@mnsi.net Mon Aug 9 10:32:27 1999 Subject: Winston reel -for sale boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01BEE24E.93F6BCE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BEE24E.93F6BCE0 I know that the purpose behind this site is not for the sale of personal =fishing apparell. I thougt given the above that all might be interested =in this reel. Having said this I hope that I have not overstepped the =boundaries to much!The reel itself is, perhaps some of you know, were sold back 9 or =10 years ago. This reel was one of , as I understand from Winston at the =time I bought it, one of two hundred. It is a 5/6 reel, never been =used, and comes with all of the original packaging etc. That is, it =comes with also, the wooden case, the extra spool, and the oil =container. For futher details please reply to jswitzer@mnsi.net ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BEE24E.93F6BCE0 I know that the purpose behindthis = might be interested in this reel. Having said this I hope that I have = overstepped the boundaries to much! reel = perhaps some of you know, were sold back 9 or 10 years ago. This reel = , as I understand from Winston at the time I bought it, one of two = packaging etc. That is, it comes with also, the wooden case, the extra = jswitzer@mnsi.net ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BEE24E.93F6BCE0-- from wgray@uidaho.edu Mon Aug 9 11:16:05 1999 JAA18368; SMTP; 9 Aug1999 16:24:03 UT Subject: Re: Sources for hardwood Greg, In some areas there are some specialty hardwood dealers, check your yellow pages or with lumber yards if they will refer you to some. Also, anybody in the hardwood flooring business or cabinet (makes his own, not the modular guys) shop would have maple. They would likely sell a pieceto suit your needs. Wilson Gray Date sent: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 10:57:43 -0600 Subject: Sources for hardwood List - I was curious about what you have found to be the best source for maple,etc... I'm getting set to make roughing forms and find that it isn'tsomething you can just pick up at the corner lumber store. I can get itordered but I was wondering if there is any advice so that I don't getripped off. Thanks! Greg Hollandgholland@navsys.com from jackdale@uswest.net Mon Aug 9 11:52:10 1999 (206.196.156.235) Subject: Re: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) In re: Catch and Release, I can understand your position. It's fun to thinkofourselves as hunter/gatherers and adopt a back-to-nature stance. However, themathematics are incontrovertible. With the huge numbers of fisherfolk onColorado streams and the intense pressure on the lakes, if every personwhofished took one trout every time s/he fished, the trout would disappearaltogether and you'd be building rods to catch bull head suckers. I suggest that, although we all long for the old days when there weren't somanypeople fishing and we didn't have to practice C&R, these ain't the good olddaysand we DO have to practice (and enforce) it, your slightly romanticpositionnotwithstanding.Jack Dale Art Port wrote: All,Reed Curry sent me this and asked that I forward it to the list.Art Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 10:09:14 -0400From: Reed Curry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)X-Accept-Language: en Subject: Re: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) Art,I've been very quiet on this subject, as we seem to go over thisground once ayear. However, I can't demure forever, so...This philosophical position has been around for at least a century. I, concur with it... for my own pleasure on stream. In fact, I gave up flyfishing forten years simply because I wasn't killing and eating the fish.The modern view of sport fishing, which involves a religiousadherenceto Catchand Release, was initiated by businessmen such as Lee Wulff, whoownedsport camps,or guided fishermen, and wanted to provide the maximum attraction fortheir sports.Wind-up fish hadn't been invented, so Lee decided to offer re-cycledfish."A fishis too valuable (to him) to use just once". This view seems antitheticalto anacknowledgement of fish as a part of a natural world which man shouldnurture andprotect. How strange that the proponents of C&R seem to have a smugself-righteousness, when, in point of fact, they are merely abusing fish.I equateC&R to a snowmobilier who chases deer through deep snow. Eventually,theanimalfounders, exhausted, and the proud sportsman walks up, forces thedeer'shead underthe snow with his boot, takes a picture, and then sets off for otherquarry.There are many valid fishery management policies, e.g., slot limits,trophysections, mandatory kill sections, regulated entry, etc. C&R is, IMHO, abarbaric,de-humanizing practice that may well provide PETA with all theammunitionthey needto bring sport fishing down. ******** The fairly strong language above is directed toward thereligionof C&R,not the practicioners, many of whom I know and enjoy fishing with.***********Art, should you see me frying a few fish for lunch by the waterside,please come over, you're welcome to join me.Best regards,Reed"Don't Catch Your Limit, Limit Your Catch." Art Port wrote: specials(many years back), Jacques Cousteau proclaimed that fishermen whoreleasetheir catch are perverting the idea of fishing. He went on to say thatbasically, if you aren't going to eat your catch, you shouldn't bebothering the fish!If PETA hasn't gotten hold of THAT one, wait'll they do!Art from eestlow@srminc.com Mon Aug 9 12:08:46 1999 with ESMTP id 1999080912031299:2698 ;Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:03:12 -0500 Subject: Re: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) 1999) at08/09/9912:14:58 PM,Itemize by SMTP Server on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999)at 08/09/9912:03:13 PM,Serialize by Router on Web1/SRMWEB(Release 5.0a |May 4, 1999) at08/09/9912:03:14 PM,Serialize complete at 08/09/99 12:03:14 PM To the List: As the list is relatively quiet, I'll jump in here. With all due respect to Reed, I do not understand his post. In his secondparagraph I believe he says he concurs (essentially agrees) with Catch &Release. Then he goes on to state a fairly anti- C&R position. Am I missingsomething? Other statements are confusing, too. For instance, theconceptsof slot limits and trophy sections are valid. But how can one cooperatewith a slot limit or trophy section without releasing fish? was not aware that C&R was invention of the fishing business community.)Onthe other hand, the remarks about C&R equating to various forms of animalcruelty are thought provoking, to say the least. I'm from Minnesota, wherenorthern pike and walleye are co-kings, so this is one of the places wherePETA chose to run Ms. McCartney's commentary. Needless to say, it did notplay well here. The biggest problem with that ad was that itanthropomorphized fish. That is to say, it projected human qualities on ananimal with a very different nervous system, to say nothing of one with avery different psyche. I have few answers, but would request that we all be clear about statingthe facts and opinions which we debate. Best regards,-Ed Estlow Art Port RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSent by: cc:owner- rodmakers@wugate Subject: Re: rod capacity(OffTopic - Catch .wustl.edu And Release) 08/08/99 12:56 PMPlease respond toanglport All,Reed Curry sent me this and asked that I forward it to the list.Art Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 10:09:14 -0400From: Reed Curry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)X-Accept-Language: en Subject: Re: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) Art,I've been very quiet on this subject, as we seem to go over thisground once ayear. However, I can't demure forever, so...This philosophical position has been around for at least a century. I, concur with it... for my own pleasure on stream. In fact, I gave up flyfishing forten years simply because I wasn't killing and eating the fish.The modern view of sport fishing, which involves a religious adherenceto Catchand Release, was initiated by businessmen such as Lee Wulff, who ownedsport camps,or guided fishermen, and wanted to provide the maximum attraction fortheir sports.Wind-up fish hadn't been invented, so Lee decided to offer re-cycled fish."A fishis too valuable (to him) to use just once". This view seems antitheticalto anacknowledgement of fish as a part of a natural world which man shouldnurture andprotect. How strange that the proponents of C&R seem to have a smugself-righteousness, when, in point of fact, they are merely abusing fish.I equateC&R to a snowmobilier who chases deer through deep snow. Eventually,theanimalfounders, exhausted, and the proud sportsman walks up, forces the deer'shead underthe snow with his boot, takes a picture, and then sets off for otherquarry.There are many valid fishery management policies, e.g., slot limits,trophysections, mandatory kill sections, regulated entry, etc. C&R is, IMHO, abarbaric,de-humanizing practice that may well provide PETA with all theammunitionthey needto bring sport fishing down. ******** The fairly strong language above is directed toward thereligionof C&R,not the practicioners, many of whom I know and enjoy fishing with.***********Art, should you see me frying a few fish for lunch by the waterside,please come over, you're welcome to join me.Best regards,Reed"Don't Catch Your Limit, Limit Your Catch." Art Port wrote: specials(many years back), Jacques Cousteau proclaimed that fishermen whoreleasetheir catch are perverting the idea of fishing. He went on to say thatbasically, if you aren't going to eat your catch, you shouldn't bebothering the fish!If PETA hasn't gotten hold of THAT one, wait'll they do!Art from weehughie@home.com Mon Aug 9 12:22:41 1999 (InterMail v4.01.01.07 201-229-111-110) with SMTP Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:22:28 -0700 Subject: RE: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) Unfortunately, it is not a romantic position to face animal rights looniesthat aim, and probably WILL gain the support of the non-angling publicwhenthey begin their 'don't hurt animals AND fish' campaigns. What will youargue when you are told that fighting a fish only to release it is not thatmuch different than bull fighting? What do you argue with respect tocruelty to animals? Is tiring a fish out, trying to control it, with a hookimpaled in its mouth for no other purpose than your own pleasure, notcruel? I hope that by asking these questions, I will not be accussed ofsympathizing with the animal rights loonies. However, it is imperativethatwe as anglers anticipate what the questions will be, and as a group,formulate appropriate responses. It is also imperative for us to search ourown selves on this matter...for example: Is pulling a cat's tail for a length of time, cruel? Would you play a game of 'catch the biggest cat by grabbing its tail, andtrying to pull it to you while it fights, then release the cat back? Would this activity be overlooked and be accepted as legitimate? If not, why not? Would you expect that the Humane Society would chargesomeone who did this with cruelty? What is the difference between fishing and the above sport of catcatching? What if the sport of cat catching was really fun? It could be an outdoorsport, where families could get together, enjoy their backyard more thantheTV, and talk about nature. Would you allow your children to practice target practice with a highpowered rubber dart gun, shooting birds, although they will not be killed,they could suffer some injury...most often not seriously, but there wouldbea risk of it? Would you allow your children to do this to blue jays?Starlings? Pigeons? How about American Bald Eagles? Is it ok to take pictures of our kids holding up sunfish out of the water?Why does it seem to be more important to treat salmon and trout withmorerespect than a cat fish or some old nuicance chubb? Why is it moreimportant to treat a non native trout more respectably than a nativemooneyeor goldeye? I trust that by these questions I will not be seen as an animal rightsloony. I simply don't have the answers. You can bet all your fishing gearthough that some day soon, we will need the answers to these questions,andit has to involve more than just talk of fishing pressure and decliningstocks. We need to define cruelty, whether or not it exists, and why oneact is ok in one situation, but not ok in another situation. Or, should itbe ok all the time? Then, we need to rid ourselves of our hypocrisy. -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: August 9, 1999 12:57 PM Cc: RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) In re: Catch and Release, I can understand your position. It'sfun to think ofourselves as hunter/gatherers and adopt a back-to-nature stance.However, themathematics are incontrovertible. With the huge numbers of fisherfolkonColorado streams and the intense pressure on the lakes, if everyperson whofished took one trout every time s/he fished, the trout would disappearaltogether and you'd be building rods to catch bull head suckers. I suggest that, although we all long for the old days when thereweren't so manypeople fishing and we didn't have to practice C&R, these ain'tthe good old daysand we DO have to practice (and enforce) it, your slightlyromantic positionnotwithstanding.Jack Dale Art Port wrote: All,Reed Curry sent me this and asked that I forward it to the list.Art Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 10:09:14 -0400From: Reed Curry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)X-Accept-Language: en Subject: Re: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) Art,I've been very quiet on this subject, as we seem to go over thisground once ayear. However, I can't demure forever, so...This philosophical position has been around for at least acentury. I, concur with it... for my own pleasure on stream. In fact, I gave up flyfishing forten years simply because I wasn't killing and eating the fish.The modern view of sport fishing, which involves areligious adherenceto Catchand Release, was initiated by businessmen such as Lee Wulff, whoownedsport camps,or guided fishermen, and wanted to provide the maximum attractionfortheir sports.Wind-up fish hadn't been invented, so Lee decided to offerre-cycled fish."A fishis too valuable (to him) to use just once". This view seemsantitheticalto anacknowledgement of fish as a part of a natural world which manshouldnurture andprotect. How strange that the proponents of C&R seem to have a smugself-righteousness, when, in point of fact, they are merelyabusing fish.I equateC&R to a snowmobilier who chases deer through deep snow.Eventually, theanimalfounders, exhausted, and the proud sportsman walks up, forcesthe deer'shead underthe snow with his boot, takes a picture, and then sets off forother quarry.There are many valid fishery management policies, e.g.,slot limits,trophysections, mandatory kill sections, regulated entry, etc. C&Ris, IMHO, abarbaric,de-humanizing practice that may well provide PETA with all theammunitionthey needto bring sport fishing down. ******** The fairly strong language above is directed towardthe religionof C&R,not the practicioners, many of whom I know and enjoy fishing with.***********Art, should you see me frying a few fish for lunch by thewaterside,please come over, you're welcome to join me.Best regards,Reed"Don't Catch Your Limit, Limit Your Catch." Art Port wrote: one of hisspecials(many years back), Jacques Cousteau proclaimed thatfishermen who releasetheir catch are perverting the idea of fishing. He went onto say thatbasically, if you aren't going to eat your catch, you shouldn't bebothering the fish!If PETA hasn't gotten hold of THAT one, wait'll they do!Art from djk762@hotmail.com Mon Aug 9 12:22:51 1999 Sun, 08 Aug 1999 12:35:37 PDT Subject: Re: Rod Capacity (Off subject-Catch and Relea...) Rodmakers, It should not be difficult to see that many think of sport fishing as the torture of one living thing for the enjoyment of another. Dragging a fish in need not hurt another living thing for one's own survival why disturb that living thing? This concept is really very simple and parallels most religions.What is not simple is the primal need for man ( mostly men) to hunt and partake in bloodsport or sport or warfare.Awesome hatch of P.E.D.s on the lower Yuba last night. The twilight was reflecting silver on the water silhouetting rising fish on my downstream drift. David KashubaFair Oaks, CA _______________________________________________________________Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com from WLBond@cps-satx.com Mon Aug 9 12:49:39 1999 199917:53:13 UT Subject: RE: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) I hate to break it to you guys but the PETA nuts have been doing this samekind of thing for many years now. They declaired victory over hunterswhenWillie boy was elected president. They figure its only a matter of timeuntil hunting is banned and then they will be coming for YOU. Their attacksagainst fishing have already begun against bass fishermen. Guys, thesepeople really believe the lie that there is no differance between animalsand people. Our defense should be to do what the news media has doneagainst the malitia movement. Every time you hear PETA or some other nutgroup talking about how "bad" and "mean" hunters and fishermen are youhaveto spread the word that they, PETA, are a bunch of nuts and screwballs.Don't give ANY of their talk ANY creadence. I know it runs against thegrain to not be able to sit down and have an intelligence conversationaboutthe subject but, if you want your grandchildren to know what fishing islikeyou better do something NOW!!!!!My 2 cents worth. ----------From: Ian Scott[SMTP:weehughie@home.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 1999 12:26 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) Unfortunately, it is not a romantic position to face animal rights looniesthat aim, and probably WILL gain the support of the non-angling publicwhenthey begin their 'don't hurt animals AND fish' campaigns. What will youargue when you are told that fighting a fish only to release it is notthatmuch different than bull fighting? What do you argue with respect tocruelty to animals? Is tiring a fish out, trying to control it, with ahookimpaled in its mouth for no other purpose than your own pleasure, notcruel? I hope that by asking these questions, I will not be accussed ofsympathizing with the animal rights loonies. However, it is imperativethatwe as anglers anticipate what the questions will be, and as a group,formulate appropriate responses. It is also imperative for us to searchourown selves on this matter...for example: Is pulling a cat's tail for a length of time, cruel? Would you play a game of 'catch the biggest cat by grabbing its tail, andtrying to pull it to you while it fights, then release the cat back? Would this activity be overlooked and be accepted as legitimate? If not, why not? Would you expect that the Humane Society would chargesomeone who did this with cruelty? What is the difference between fishing and the above sport of catcatching? What if the sport of cat catching was really fun? It could be an outdoorsport, where families could get together, enjoy their backyard more thantheTV, and talk about nature. Would you allow your children to practice target practice with a highpowered rubber dart gun, shooting birds, although they will not be killed,they could suffer some injury...most often not seriously, but there wouldbea risk of it? Would you allow your children to do this to blue jays?Starlings? Pigeons? How about American Bald Eagles? Is it ok to take pictures of our kids holding up sunfish out of the water?Why does it seem to be more important to treat salmon and trout withmorerespect than a cat fish or some old nuicance chubb? Why is it moreimportant to treat a non native trout more respectably than a nativemooneyeor goldeye? I trust that by these questions I will not be seen as an animal rightsloony. I simply don't have the answers. You can bet all your fishinggearthough that some day soon, we will need the answers to these questions,andit has to involve more than just talk of fishing pressure and decliningstocks. We need to define cruelty, whether or not it exists, and why oneact is ok in one situation, but not ok in another situation. Or, shoulditbe ok all the time? Then, we need to rid ourselves of our hypocrisy. -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: August 9, 1999 12:57 PM Cc: RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) In re: Catch and Release, I can understand your position. It'sfun to think ofourselves as hunter/gatherers and adopt a back-to-nature stance.However, themathematics are incontrovertible. With the huge numbers of fisherfolkonColorado streams and the intense pressure on the lakes, if everyperson whofished took one trout every time s/he fished, the trout would disappearaltogether and you'd be building rods to catch bull head suckers. I suggest that, although we all long for the old days when thereweren't so manypeople fishing and we didn't have to practice C&R, these ain'tthe good old daysand we DO have to practice (and enforce) it, your slightlyromantic positionnotwithstanding.Jack Dale Art Port wrote: All,Reed Curry sent me this and asked that I forward it to thelist.Art Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 10:09:14 -0400From: Reed Curry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)X-Accept-Language: en Subject: Re: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) Art,I've been very quiet on this subject, as we seem to go over thisground once ayear. However, I can't demure forever, so...This philosophical position has been around for at least acentury. I, concur with it... for my own pleasure on stream. In fact, I gave upflyfishing forten years simply because I wasn't killing and eating the fish.The modern view of sport fishing, which involves areligious adherenceto Catchand Release, was initiated by businessmen such as Lee Wulff, whoownedsport camps,or guided fishermen, and wanted to provide the maximum attractionfortheir sports.Wind-up fish hadn't been invented, so Lee decided to offerre-cycled fish."A fishis too valuable (to him) to use just once". This view seemsantitheticalto anacknowledgement of fish as a part of a natural world which manshouldnurture andprotect. How strange that the proponents of C&R seem to have asmugself-righteousness, when, in point of fact, they are merelyabusing fish.I equateC&R to a snowmobilier who chases deer through deep snow.Eventually, theanimalfounders, exhausted, and the proud sportsman walks up, forcesthe deer'shead underthe snow with his boot, takes a picture, and then sets off forother quarry.There are many valid fishery management policies, e.g.,slot limits,trophysections, mandatory kill sections, regulated entry, etc. C&Ris, IMHO, abarbaric,de-humanizing practice that may well provide PETA with all theammunitionthey needto bring sport fishing down. ******** The fairly strong language above is directed towardthe religionof C&R,not the practicioners, many of whom I know and enjoy fishing with.***********Art, should you see me frying a few fish for lunch by thewaterside,please come over, you're welcome to join me.Best regards,Reed"Don't Catch Your Limit, Limit Your Catch." Art Port wrote: one of hisspecials(many years back), Jacques Cousteau proclaimed thatfishermen who releasetheir catch are perverting the idea of fishing. He went onto say thatbasically, if you aren't going to eat your catch, you shouldn't bebothering the fish!If PETA hasn't gotten hold of THAT one, wait'll they do!Art from bdcreek@crosswinds.net Mon Aug 9 13:33:26 1999 (envelope- from bdcreek@crosswinds.net) RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Off Topic - Catch And Release) Hey, That's enough of that, my poor brain hurts. People are animals, we are notoutside or above nature, just part of it. As a part of nature if I choose tocatch fish for fun, I'll catch fish (or try, anyway) for fun. If other partsof nature don't like that, EXCUUUUUSE ME! Some good points have beenhereraised. Let's carry on with this discussion elsewhere. Hurry! Somebody ask about glue or something! Brian from fcaruso@caraustar.com Mon Aug 9 14:38:42 1999 2054 ; Mon, 09 Aug1999 15:38:29 EDT (IBM VM SMTP V2R4a)via TCP with SMTP ; Mon, 09 Aug 1999 15:38:22 EDT 23-1999)) id852567C8.006B7F2B ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 15:34:09 -0400 Subject: decals Someome posted a address for a company that selles supplies to makedecals froma computer printer. I beleive that the address was " mini-mark.com" but Ican't seem to link up. Did I get the wrong address? frankc@webspan.net from rcurry@ttlc.net Mon Aug 9 16:15:12 1999 (SMTPD32-5.01) id A5644610006A; Mon, 09 Aug 1999 17:17:24 EDT Subject: Re: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) Ed,Mike B. tells me I might be back in touch with Rodmakers. I'll tryanyway.Regarding what may be confusing about my previous post: I am not infavor of C&R! Inthis I joinexcellent company; for example, A.A. Luce who has an interesting chapteron Ethics inAngling in hisbook "Fishing and Thinking".Slot limits and other size limits have been a valid angling practicesince, at least,the thirties.In many states, when I was young, trout under six inches were released bylaw. Goodsportsmanshiptaught that any fish of legal length were creeled, up to the limit (15-25trout). Ofcourse, thosehigh limits were unmanageable, not only could the streams not support 25trout per dayper angler, butfew anglers had a use for 25 trout. As well, the leader material (nylon)was 1/3rd orless thebreaking strength of modern leaders... few fishermen would catch theirlegal limit. Butwhat was moresignificant was the approach to fishing, it was known as Fishing, notCatching. Catchingfish was awelcome corrolary to the day onstream, but the purpose was fishing. Inever heard of 50or 100-fishdays until Wulff (an ad man from New York) started touting "Fish for Fun"(what were wedoingbefore??). Then Gingrich suggested using a golf counter to keep track ofhow many fishone landed. Sothe cult was born.It's not really that hard to walk away from a river, or just sit andwatch theevening rise, afteryou have caught (and perhaps released) your personal limit. When I go toone particularstream, Ialways say to myself, "I'll keep anything over 14 inches, and quit after 5fish landed."This works make this last Best regards,Reed eestlow@srminc.com wrote: To the List: As the list is relatively quiet, I'll jump in here. With all due respect to Reed, I do not understand his post. In his secondparagraph I believe he says he concurs (essentially agrees) with Catch &Release. Then he goes on to state a fairly anti- C&R position. Am Imissingsomething? Other statements are confusing, too. For instance, theconceptsof slot limits and trophy sections are valid. But how can one cooperatewith a slot limit or trophy section without releasing fish? was not aware that C&R was invention of the fishing businesscommunity.) Onthe other hand, the remarks about C&R equating to various forms ofanimalcruelty are thought provoking, to say the least. I'm from Minnesota,wherenorthern pike and walleye are co-kings, so this is one of the placeswherePETA chose to run Ms. McCartney's commentary. Needless to say, it didnotplay well here. The biggest problem with that ad was that itanthropomorphized fish. That is to say, it projected human qualities onananimal with a very different nervous system, to say nothing of one withavery different psyche. I have few answers, but would request that we all be clear aboutstating> the facts and opinions which we debate. Best regards,-Ed Estlow from moran@lincoln.midcoast.com Mon Aug 9 17:51:26 1999 Mon, 9 Aug 1999 19:01:00 -0400 Subject: Re: urac-kicker ratio Gray, I've been using a 4:1 ratio for 10+ years and been happy with theresults. Sean Moran----- Original Message ----- Subject: urac-kicker ratio folks, i noticed that the urac can recommends 2 parts resin to 1 part kicker;wayne's book recommends 4 parts resin to 1 part kicker. my question is:which is correct for rod making? it was asked a few years back, butaccording to the archives, was not answered on list. would someone beableto advise on the best ratio for gluing up bamboo? i'd also be curious astowhether using less catalyst gives longer pot life. tks gl-------------------- gary mischcdr, usn (ret.) from mschaffer@mindspring.com Mon Aug 9 18:26:47 1999 Subject: 60* point needed If anyone could help with a little problem, I would be very greatful. I needa 60degree point for my depth guage, but haven't been able to locate asource where I can buy just the 60 degree point. All my usual sources haveapoint assortment for sale at about $30.00, but not just the single point.Any help will be appreciated!TIA, Mike Doc (Mike Shaffer)(mschaffer@mindspring.com) from briansr@point-net.com Mon Aug 9 18:32:01 1999 Subject: Off topic:Worst fishing trips Anyone want to contibute to this thread?An acquantance of mine was fishing near the Florenceville bridge on theMatapedia river last week when he started to feel a little wet(sunny day,noclouds) He looked up at the bridge and several little dears were pissingover the side on him.Things got a bit more grim when they dropped severalLARGE rocks into the pool near where he was fishing.Cheers Brian from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Aug 9 19:06:28 1999 Tue, 10 Aug 1999 08:10:42 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: Rod Capacity (Off subject-Catch and Relea...) Most will prob remember Cheech & Chong's "whales are people too" saying.May I suggest "people are animals too". That would explain a lot.Personaly I have no problem with acceptiong this notion and just gettingon with what is a harmless activity. As long as the trout aren't stressedbeyond the point of survival when released no harm is done and the troutcertaily wont "remember" the experience. Tony On Sun, 8 Aug 1999, David Kashuba wrote: Rodmakers, It should not be difficult to see that many think of sport fishing as the torture of one living thing for the enjoyment of another. Dragging a fishin need not hurt another living thing for one's own survival why disturbthat living thing? This concept is really very simple and parallels most religions.What is not simple is the primal need for man ( mostly men) to huntand partake in bloodsport or sport or warfare.Awesome hatch of P.E.D.s on the lower Yuba last night. The twilightwas reflecting silver on the water silhouetting rising fish on my downstream drift. David KashubaFair Oaks, CA _______________________________________________________________Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Aug 9 19:12:15 1999 Tue, 10 Aug 1999 08:16:16 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) Well put Reed, and a good philosophy. Tony On Mon, 9 Aug 1999, Reed Curry wrote: Ed,Mike B. tells me I might be back in touch with Rodmakers. I'll tryanyway.Regarding what may be confusing about my previous post: I am not infavor of C&R!In this I joinexcellent company; for example, A.A. Luce who has an interesting chapteron Ethics inAngling in hisbook "Fishing and Thinking".Slot limits and other size limits have been a valid angling practicesince, atleast, the thirties.In many states, when I was young, trout under six inches were released sportsmanshiptaught that any fish of legal length were creeled, up to the limit (15-25trout). Ofcourse, thosehigh limits were unmanageable, not only could the streams not support25 trout per dayper angler, butfew anglers had a use for 25 trout. As well, the leader material (nylon)was 1/3rd orless thebreaking strength of modern leaders... few fishermen would catch theirlegal limit.But what was moresignificant was the approach to fishing, it was known as Fishing, notCatching.Catching fish was awelcome corrolary to the day onstream, but the purpose was fishing. Inever heard of50 or 100- fishdays until Wulff (an ad man from New York) started touting "Fish for Fun"(what werewe doingbefore??). Then Gingrich suggested using a golf counter to keep track ofhow many fishone landed. Sothe cult was born.It's not really that hard to walk away from a river, or just sit andwatch theevening rise, afteryou have caught (and perhaps released) your personal limit. When I go tooneparticular stream, Ialways say to myself, "I'll keep anything over 14 inches, and quit after 5fishlanded." This works make this last Best regards,Reed eestlow@srminc.com wrote: To the List: As the list is relatively quiet, I'll jump in here. With all due respect to Reed, I do not understand his post. In his secondparagraph I believe he says he concurs (essentially agrees) with Catch&Release. Then he goes on to state a fairly anti- C&R position. Am Imissingsomething? Other statements are confusing, too. For instance, theconceptsof slot limits and trophy sections are valid. But how can one cooperatewith a slot limit or trophy section without releasing fish? was not aware that C&R was invention of the fishing businesscommunity.) Onthe other hand, the remarks about C&R equating to various forms ofanimalcruelty are thought provoking, to say the least. I'm from Minnesota,wherenorthern pike and walleye are co-kings, so this is one of the placeswherePETA chose to run Ms. McCartney's commentary. Needless to say, it didnotplay well here. The biggest problem with that ad was that itanthropomorphized fish. That is to say, it projected human qualities onananimal with a very different nervous system, to say nothing of onewith avery different psyche. I have few answers, but would request that we all be clear aboutstatingthe facts and opinions which we debate. Best regards,-Ed Estlow /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from anglport@con2.com Mon Aug 9 19:19:52 1999 Subject: Re: Rod Capacity (Off subject-Catch and Relea...) Tony,We use that "People are animals" line a lot here in NYC, but we don'tgiveit q-u-i-t-e the same meaning you intend.*G*Art At 08:10 AM 8/10/99 +0800, Tony Young wrote: Most will prob remember Cheech & Chong's "whales are people too"saying.May I suggest "people are animals too". That would explain a lot.Personaly I have no problem with acceptiong this notion and just gettingon with what is a harmless activity. As long as the trout aren't stressedbeyond the point of survival when released no harm is done and the troutcertaily wont "remember" the experience. Tony On Sun, 8 Aug 1999, David Kashuba wrote: Rodmakers, It should not be difficult to see that many think of sport fishing asthe torture of one living thing for the enjoyment of another. Dragging afish in need not hurt another living thing for one's own survival why disturbthat living thing? This concept is really very simple and parallels most religions.What is not simple is the primal need for man ( mostly men) to huntand partake in bloodsport or sport or warfare.Awesome hatch of P.E.D.s on the lower Yuba last night. The twilightwas reflecting silver on the water silhouetting rising fish on mydownstream drift. David KashubaFair Oaks, CA _______________________________________________________________Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from MasjC1@aol.com Mon Aug 9 20:40:44 1999 Subject: Sticking Ferrules I had an interesting experience two weeks ago. I had been fishing a new 7' 2" 4 wt. Driggs River Taper for a day on my home stream. The rod hadbeen strung up for about 8 hours when I tried to separate the ferrules. No go. I tried all the tricks I could think of: behind the knees; two people pulling and pushing; heating the female ferrule and icing the male. Nothingworked. It was like they were welded together. I gave up and put the rod down onthe table. Over the course of a week I periodically picked up the rod and tried to separate the ferrules; always with the same result. It would not budge. Then one afternoon, about a week later, I was driven off the water by an intense thunder storm. I broke down the rod I was fishing, wiped it dryand put it away. I then picked up the Driggs and gave a gentle pull and POP! It separated with little effort. The only explanation I can think of is a change in air pressure. The storm that drove me off the water must have had lower air pressure, similar tothe pressure when I assembled the rod. During the intervening week thepressure increased to the point that it held the male in the female. Has anyone else experienced such a situation? Mark Cole from jaquin@netsync.net Mon Aug 9 20:53:42 1999 Mon, 9 Aug 1999 21:52:41 -0400 Subject: Re: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) Reed Curry wrote: Ed,Mike B. tells me I might be back in touch with Rodmakers. I'll tryanyway.Regarding what may be confusing about my previous post: I am not infavor of C&R!In this I joinexcellent company; for example, A.A. Luce who has an interesting chapteron Ethics inAngling in hisbook "Fishing and Thinking".Slot limits and other size limits have been a valid angling practicesince, atleast, the thirties.In many states, when I was young, trout under six inches were released sportsmanshiptaught that any fish of legal length were creeled, up to the limit (15-25trout). Ofcourse, thosehigh limits were unmanageable, not only could the streams not support25 trout per dayper angler, butfew anglers had a use for 25 trout. As well, the leader material (nylon)was 1/3rd orless thebreaking strength of modern leaders... few fishermen would catch theirlegal limit.But what was moresignificant was the approach to fishing, it was known as Fishing, notCatching.Catching fish was awelcome corrolary to the day onstream, but the purpose was fishing. Inever heard of50 or 100- fishdays until Wulff (an ad man from New York) started touting "Fish for Fun"(what werewe doingbefore??). Then Gingrich suggested using a golf counter to keep track ofhow many fishone landed. Sothe cult was born.It's not really that hard to walk away from a river, or just sit andwatch theevening rise, afteryou have caught (and perhaps released) your personal limit. When I go tooneparticular stream, Ialways say to myself, "I'll keep anything over 14 inches, and quit after 5fishlanded." This works make this last Best regards,Reed eestlow@srminc.com wrote: To the List: As the list is relatively quiet, I'll jump in here. With all due respect to Reed, I do not understand his post. In his secondparagraph I believe he says he concurs (essentially agrees) with Catch&Release. Then he goes on to state a fairly anti- C&R position. Am Imissingsomething? Other statements are confusing, too. For instance, theconceptsof slot limits and trophy sections are valid. But how can one cooperatewith a slot limit or trophy section without releasing fish? was not aware that C&R was invention of the fishing businesscommunity.) Onthe other hand, the remarks about C&R equating to various forms ofanimalcruelty are thought provoking, to say the least. I'm from Minnesota,wherenorthern pike and walleye are co-kings, so this is one of the placeswherePETA chose to run Ms. McCartney's commentary. Needless to say, it didnotplay well here. The biggest problem with that ad was that itanthropomorphized fish. That is to say, it projected human qualities onananimal with a very different nervous system, to say nothing of onewith avery different psyche. I have few answers, but would request that we all be clear aboutstatingthe facts and opinions which we debate. Best regards,-Ed Estlow hi ya'll, i would like to put in my two cents worth, since the subjectis still open. first one has to question Reed on is comment on fishing,keeping all fish over fourteen till he has a five fish limit. What doeshe do with the fish under fourteen inches practice C & R, or perhaps,toss them up on the banks to feed the racoons? enough negativethoughts! the point i would like to make about C & R is that our timeavailable to fish is a precious commodity and we need to prolong theenjoyment particulaly in this fast-paced world. what you need to watchout for with the PETA folks is the incessant creeping of more regulationto limit your sport till it is no longer worth the effort topresue(spelling) the sport.example pheasant hunting in new york state. i raise and hunt labs forpheasants. the season in NY is about three-four weeks long, used to beno sunday hunting. which ment three saturdays of hunting or takingvacation time to hunt. what if the seasons were cut to two weeks?you begin to question if its worth having a good bird-dog. if you giveup having a birddog then you question whether it worth it to hunt?PETA just won another victory one less hunter. the same can happenwith fishing if reasonableness does not reign. ps i belong to a private hunting perserve, where i can hunt frommid-sept till thanksgiving. it prolongs the season and justifies havinga good dog. i hope i don't have to join a trout fishing club to prolongmy fishing season. jerry from richlob@jps.net Mon Aug 9 20:56:00 1999 Subject: Re: Sources for hardwood In Silicon Valley try Southern Lumber 408-294-1487 or www.southernlumber.com. I made a stop there last week for different hard woods for a non rodproject. They have over 50 exotic hardwoods and many domestic hardwoods. I am thinking of making my own reel seats from a nice purple hard wood from Africa. I did buy some Zebra wood and made some 16'' Trout carvings. Hope this helps. Thanks Rich Lob -------------------------------------------------------------------------- RICH LOBROVICH PROGRAM DIRECTOR NCCFFF 1999 CONCLAVE OCTOBER 8 , 9, AND 10 TH. 1999 KINGS BEACH NORTH LAKE TAHOE CALIFORNIA PERSONAL MAILING ADDRESS: RICH LOBROVICH GEO POLY FLY FISHING PO BOX 365 TRACY CA 95378-0365 831-423-2684 SANTA CRUZ CLUB MAILING ADDRESS: TRACY FLY FISHERS PO BOX 1919 TRACY CA 95378-1919 Meetings Third Wednesday of each month 6 - 9 PM Location : TRACY WILDLIFE ASSOC. Directions: Take Tracy Blvd. north three mile past hwy 205. cross over the first bridge and take a left at Finck Road. Continue onFinck Rd. for 1/4 mile and turn left at the mail boxes. from rcurry@ttlc.net Mon Aug 9 21:15:32 1999 (SMTPD32-5.01) id ABBB4FDB00A6; Mon, 09 Aug 1999 22:17:31 EDT Subject: Re: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) Jerry,To clarify: I would "throw back" any fish under 14" but count themtoward the(personal) five fishlimit. Let the raccoons get their own fish.I didn't understand your reference to "prolong(ing) the enjoyment". Isthis likefishes interruptus? Canyou Hurry up and have fun? : )Many areas now are open for trout fishing year-round. This, the cynicwould say, is However, the quality of the fishing suffers tremendously.All places differ. The other evening I was casting for pickerel and onlygettingpanfish (on a #6 yellowMarabou Muddler). They were small and I didn't keep any. I quit when agolden shinerabout 8" got the hookin his gills and, despite my care, swam away leaving a broad trail of blood.Best regards,Reed Jerry Quinn wrote: hi ya'll, i would like to put in my two cents worth, since the subjectis still open. first one has to question Reed on is comment on fishing,keeping all fish over fourteen till he has a five fish limit. What doeshe do with the fish under fourteen inches practice C & R, or perhaps,toss them up on the banks to feed the racoons? enough negativethoughts! the point i would like to make about C & R is that our timeavailable to fish is a precious commodity and we need to prolong theenjoyment particulaly in this fast-paced world. what you need to watchout for with the PETA folks is the incessant creeping of more regulationto limit your sport till it is no longer worth the effort topresue(spelling) the sport.example pheasant hunting in new york state. i raise and hunt labs forpheasants. the season in NY is about three-four weeks long, used to beno sunday hunting. which ment three saturdays of hunting or takingvacation time to hunt. what if the seasons were cut to two weeks?you begin to question if its worth having a good bird-dog. if you giveup having a birddog then you question whether it worth it to hunt?PETA just won another victory one less hunter. the same can happenwith fishing if reasonableness does not reign. ps i belong to a private hunting perserve, where i can hunt frommid-sept till thanksgiving. it prolongs the season and justifies havinga good dog. i hope i don't have to join a trout fishing club to prolongmy fishing season. jerry from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Mon Aug 9 21:28:10 1999 Subject: Re: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) from jjohnso4@bellsouth.net Mon Aug 9 22:03:11 1999 Subject: Re: decals At 03:37 PM 8/9/99 -0400, fcaruso@caraustar.com wrote: Someome posted a address for a company that selles supplies to makedecalsfroma computer printer. I beleive that the address was " mini- mark.com" butIcan't seem to link up. Did I get the wrong address? Hi Frank, You're close, just not quite small enough. ;-) The name of the company isMicro.Mark. http://www.micromark.com/ Go to the on-line catalog and do a search for decal paper. The material works with a copier or a laser printer. Later,Johnny----------------------------------------------Johnny JohnsonLilburn, GA from jjohnso4@bellsouth.net Mon Aug 9 22:20:56 1999 Subject: Re: 60* point needed At 07:25 PM 8/9/99 -0400, michael w. shaffer wrote: If anyone could help with a little problem, I would be very greatful. I needa 60degree point for my depth guage, but haven't been able to locate asource where I can buy just the 60 degree point. All my usual sourceshave apoint assortment for sale at about $30.00, but not just the single point.Any help will be appreciated! Hi Mike, The point that most people seem to recommend is the Starret #6632/6. Itdid have a list price of ~$3.10 awhile back. Dave LeClair had a few that he was selling a couple of years ago. You cancheck with him at: The Fly and Rod RoomPO Box 565Elbridge, NY 13060315-689-7896 (evenings ) As a last resort you can call Starrett @ (800) 254-8690. They will giveyou the name of a distributor that you can order from. Later,Johnny ----------------------------------------------Johnny JohnsonLilburn, GA from irish-george@pacbell.net Mon Aug 9 22:57:54 1999 Subject: Re: Sources for hardwood boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0098_01BEE2A9.D3941400" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0098_01BEE2A9.D3941400 If you are actually IN San Jose, try going around the corner from =Southern Lumber to Aura Hardwoods on Phelan Ave -- all of the wood at =Southern Lumber is S4S (surfaced 4-sides) and you PAY for that...Aura =Hardwoods has a good variety of woods that aren't S4S (if you're going =to be turning them the "S4S" you paid for gets cut away). Another good =source in San Jose is Northern Hardwood Lumber (it is where many cabinet=shops and hardwood flooring dealers buy) near the airport. One last point: The hardwood lumber business INVENTED the word =arrogant. Hardwood lumber dealers normally keep hours about half as =long as banker's hours and no weekend (or EXTREMELY limited) hours. =Southern Lumber is an exception and keeps similar hours to the chain =home improvement centers as they mostly get that clientelle. George Bourke ----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Sources for hardwood In Silicon Valley try Southern Lumber 408-294-1487or www.southernlumber.com. I made a stop there last week for different hard woods for a non rod =project.They have over 50 exotic hardwoods and many domestic hardwoods.I am thinking of making my own reel seats from a nice purple hard =wood from Africa.I did buy some Zebra wood and made some 16'' Trout carvings. Thanks Rich Lob =-------------------------------------------------------------------------=-RICH LOBROVICH PROGRAM DIRECTOR KINGS BEACH NORTH LAKE TAHOE CALIFORNIA PERSONAL MAILING ADDRESS: GEO POLY FLY FISHINGPO BOX 365TRACY CA 95378-0365 831-423-2684 SANTA CRUZ CLUB MAILING ADDRESS:TRACY FLY FISHERSPO BOX 1919TRACY CA 95378- 1919 Location : TRACY WILDLIFE ASSOC.Directions: Take Tracy Blvd. north three mile past hwy 205.cross over the first bridge and take a left at Finck Road. Continue = ------=_NextPart_000_0098_01BEE2A9.D3941400 If you are actually IN San Jose,try = around the corner from Southern Lumber to Aura Hardwoods on Phelan Ave= the wood at Southern Lumber is S4S (surfaced 4-sides) and you PAY that...Aura Hardwoods has a good variety of woods that aren't S4S (if = going to be turning them the "S4S" you paid for gets cut = Another good source in San Jose is Northern Hardwood Lumber (it is where= cabinet shops and hardwood flooring dealers buy) near the =airport. hardwood = hours about half as long as banker's hours and no weekend (or EXTREMELY = chain home improvement centers as they mostly get that =clientelle. George Bourke ----Original = RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu=<RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= Monday, August 09, 1999 7:00 PMSubject: Re: Sources hardwood hardwoods.I am thinking of making my own reel seats from a nice = hard wood from Africa.I did buy some Zebra wood and made some = =Lob----------------------------------------------------------= LOBROVICH PROGRAM DIRECTORNCCFFF 1999 CONCLAVEOCTOBER 8 , = TH. 1999 KINGS BEACH NORTH LAKE TAHOECALIFORNIAPERSONAL = ADDRESS:RICH LOBROVICH GEO POLY FLY FISHINGPO BOX = CRUZCLUB MAILING ADDRESS:TRACY FLY FISHERSPO =95378- Third Wednesday of each month 6 - 9 PM Location : TRACY WILDLIFE= 205.cross over the first bridge and take a left at Finck Road. = ------=_NextPart_000_0098_01BEE2A9.D3941400-- from rmoon@ida.net Mon Aug 9 23:09:09 1999 0000 Subject: Re: Sticking Ferrules Yes Mark. Spent two months on a rod before it obligingly separated forme.Ralph from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Aug 10 00:22:51 1999 Tue, 10 Aug 1999 13:26:56 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: Rod Capacity (Off subject-Catch and Relea...) Art,I get your meaning, it's the same here especialy other drivers. I guessthey're only doing what comes naturaly too. I listened to a lecture recently by a palaeontologist. It was a longlecture and covered a lot of ground but one thing he said that reallycaught my attention was his comment that for the most part people'svalues are the same all over from New Guinea highlanders to Swiss bankers. Theexception to this was people and societies who intentionaly divorcethemselves from the natural world and no longer accept being a part of it.Humans being somehow seperate from the natural world and relying upontechnology to solve the obvious enviromental problems.These are the people who'd be happy knowing there is a theme park justdown the road with a token stand of trees and re- circulating stream withfish you can feed and people dressed up like Chip'n Dale running about. Sportsmen and women who engage in "blood sports" need to be a part oftheanimal world to participate and it's us who'll wind up forcing protection the fish in the streams and the deer in the forrests but because if weloose that, we loose everything. The big enemy isn't the fish andtree huggers, the enemy is any government that allows big money to makemoremoney at the expense of everybody. Tony On Mon, 9 Aug 1999, Art Port wrote: Tony,We use that "People are animals" line a lot here in NYC, but we don'tgiveit q-u-i-t-e the same meaning you intend.*G*Art At 08:10 AM 8/10/99 +0800, Tony Young wrote: Most will prob remember Cheech & Chong's "whales are people too"saying.May I suggest "people are animals too". That would explain a lot.Personaly I have no problem with acceptiong this notion and justgettingon with what is a harmless activity. As long as the trout aren'tstressedbeyond the point of survival when released no harm is done and thetroutcertaily wont "remember" the experience. Tony On Sun, 8 Aug 1999, David Kashuba wrote: Rodmakers, It should not be difficult to see that many think of sport fishing asthe torture of one living thing for the enjoyment of another. Dragging afish in need not hurt another living thing for one's own survival why disturbthat living thing? This concept is really very simple and parallels most religions.What is not simple is the primal need for man ( mostly men) to huntand partake in bloodsport or sport or warfare.Awesome hatch of P.E.D.s on the lower Yuba last night. The twilightwas reflecting silver on the water silhouetting rising fish on mydownstream drift. David KashubaFair Oaks, CA _______________________________________________________________Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Aug 10 00:26:06 1999 Tue, 10 Aug 1999 13:29:04 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: Sticking Ferrules Can't say I've had the experience you mention but what taper is the Driggsyou have and how does it fish? Tony On Mon, 9 Aug 1999 MasjC1@aol.com wrote: I had an interesting experience two weeks ago. I had been fishing a new7' 2" 4 wt. Driggs River Taper for a day on my home stream. The rod hadbeen strung up for about 8 hours when I tried to separate the ferrules. No go. I tried all the tricks I could think of: behind the knees; two people pulling and pushing; heating the female ferrule and icing the male. Nothingworked. It was like they were welded together. I gave up and put the rod down onthe table. Over the course of a week I periodically picked up the rod andtried to separate the ferrules; always with the same result. It would notbudge. Then one afternoon, about a week later, I was driven off the water by an intense thunder storm. I broke down the rod I was fishing, wiped it dryand put it away. I then picked up the Driggs and gave a gentle pull and POP! It separated with little effort. The only explanation I can think of is a change in air pressure. The storm that drove me off the water must have had lower air pressure, similar tothe pressure when I assembled the rod. During the intervening week thepressure increased to the point that it held the male in the female. Has anyone else experienced such a situation? Mark Cole /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from seanmcs@ar.com.au Tue Aug 10 01:42:10 1999 Tue, 10 Aug 1999 16:42:21 +1000 Subject: Re: Sticking Ferrules Try WD-40. SeanMcS MasjC1@aol.com wrote: I had an interesting experience two weeks ago. I had been fishing a new7'2" 4 wt. Driggs River Taper for a day on my home stream. The rod hadbeenstrung up for about 8 hours when I tried to separate the ferrules. No go. Itried all the tricks I could think of: behind the knees; two people pullingand pushing; heating the female ferrule and icing the male. Nothingworked.It was like they were welded together. I gave up and put the rod down onthetable. Over the course of a week I periodically picked up the rod andtriedto separate the ferrules; always with the same result. It would notbudge.Then one afternoon, about a week later, I was driven off the water by anintense thunder storm. I broke down the rod I was fishing, wiped it dryandput it away. I then picked up the Driggs and gave a gentle pull and POP! Itseparated with little effort. The only explanation I can think of is a change in air pressure. The stormthat drove me off the water must have had lower air pressure, similar tothepressure when I assembled the rod. During the intervening week thepressureincreased to the point that it held the male in the female. Has anyone else experienced such a situation? Mark Cole from chris_wohlford@excite.com Tue Aug 10 02:12:21 1999 (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP Tue, 10 Aug 1999 00:11:47 -0700 Subject: Re: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) This is not always the case. I have noticed the California Dept. of Fish &Game sometimes designate's the year round status to trout streams thatreceive very little pressure. One year round stream I fish in particular at X-mas and the New Yearalwaysyields healthy wild rainbows of astounding size. In conversations withfellow anglers in the area I'm am often suprised to find that most areunware of these rivers being open and just how good the fishing can be. I must admit that I now keep these rivers to myself. I figure if people aretoo lazy to read the CA regulations book why should I point them out. BTW, even though just one of these could feed a few people I just don'thavethe heart to keep these original "native" Californians :) Regards,Chris Wohlford On Mon, 09 Aug 1999 22:14:47 -0400, Reed Curry wrote: Many areas now are open for trout fishing year-round. This, the cynicwouldsay, is for tourism dollars. However, the quality of the fishing sufferstremendously. ________________________________________________________________Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.comTalk online at http://voicechat.excite.com from chris_wohlford@excite.com Tue Aug 10 02:48:42 1999 (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP Tue, 10 Aug 1999 00:48:05 -0700 Subject: Re: Sources for hardwood Hi Rich,Glad to see you on the Rodmakers list. A couple of more local (SF Bay Area) sources for hardwood are: MacBeath Hardwood ( http://www.macbeath.com ) in Berkeley @ 510-843- 4390 -nice selection of turning blanks & blocks. and just up the street is: EcoTimber Woods ( http://www.ecotimber.com ) @ 510-549-3000 - thisplace forthe most part deals in reclaimed board lumber. Some really exceptionalandunique woods pass through this place..and pass quickly I might add. Forinstance I picked up some Claro Walnut Burl and Spalted Western MapleBurlrecently that you just wouldn't believe. I really like this place but if yousee something you like...grab it before the furniture guys do. p.s.- Both carry the hard eastern "Sugar" maple for planing forms. Best Regards,Chris Wohlford ________________________________________________________________Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.comTalk online at http://voicechat.excite.com from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Aug 10 05:35:13 1999 Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:38:52 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: RE: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) The below questions do raise some questions that would be difficult tofend of except to say that there certainly was a time when the thingsmentioned wouldn't have been considered as particualy cruel and comparedwith bear baiting what's the problem? Some countrys would still feel thesame way now.The thing is though that as society's values change what is and isn'tregarded as cruel alter also so although it's ok to speed through citystreets placing people's lives at risk (it's against the law but societyaccepts it, nobody chases the offender except to issue a fine) it's not okto pull cat's tails and indulge in a little after work cock fighting. Before fishing is legislated to the point of non existance society as awhole will have to feel the need and that's a long way off though this is the point I was attempting to make in a prev posting re. a change invalues due to severing ties with the natural world.The lunitic fringe guys are prob more the result of the pressures ofpopulation over using a limited resource. Tony On Mon, 9 Aug 1999, Ian Scott wrote: Unfortunately, it is not a romantic position to face animal rights looniesthat aim, and probably WILL gain the support of the non-angling publicwhenthey begin their 'don't hurt animals AND fish' campaigns. What will youargue when you are told that fighting a fish only to release it is not thatmuch different than bull fighting? What do you argue with respect tocruelty to animals? Is tiring a fish out, trying to control it, with a hookimpaled in its mouth for no other purpose than your own pleasure, notcruel? I hope that by asking these questions, I will not be accussed ofsympathizing with the animal rights loonies. However, it is imperativethatwe as anglers anticipate what the questions will be, and as a group,formulate appropriate responses. It is also imperative for us to searchourown selves on this matter...for example: Is pulling a cat's tail for a length of time, cruel? Would you play a game of 'catch the biggest cat by grabbing its tail, andtrying to pull it to you while it fights, then release the cat back? Would this activity be overlooked and be accepted as legitimate? If not, why not? Would you expect that the Humane Society would chargesomeone who did this with cruelty? What is the difference between fishing and the above sport of catcatching? What if the sport of cat catching was really fun? It could be an outdoorsport, where families could get together, enjoy their backyard more thantheTV, and talk about nature. Would you allow your children to practice target practice with a highpowered rubber dart gun, shooting birds, although they will not be killed,they could suffer some injury...most often not seriously, but there wouldbea risk of it? Would you allow your children to do this to blue jays?Starlings? Pigeons? How about American Bald Eagles? Is it ok to take pictures of our kids holding up sunfish out of the water?Why does it seem to be more important to treat salmon and trout withmorerespect than a cat fish or some old nuicance chubb? Why is it moreimportant to treat a non native trout more respectably than a nativemooneyeor goldeye? I trust that by these questions I will not be seen as an animal rightsloony. I simply don't have the answers. You can bet all your fishing gearthough that some day soon, we will need the answers to these questions,andit has to involve more than just talk of fishing pressure and decliningstocks. We need to define cruelty, whether or not it exists, and why oneact is ok in one situation, but not ok in another situation. Or, should itbe ok all the time? Then, we need to rid ourselves of our hypocrisy. -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: August 9, 1999 12:57 PM Cc: RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) In re: Catch and Release, I can understand your position. It'sfun to think ofourselves as hunter/gatherers and adopt a back-to-nature stance.However, themathematics are incontrovertible. With the huge numbers of fisherfolkonColorado streams and the intense pressure on the lakes, if everyperson whofished took one trout every time s/he fished, the trout would disappearaltogether and you'd be building rods to catch bull head suckers. I suggest that, although we all long for the old days when thereweren't so manypeople fishing and we didn't have to practice C&R, these ain'tthe good old daysand we DO have to practice (and enforce) it, your slightlyromantic positionnotwithstanding.Jack Dale Art Port wrote: All,Reed Curry sent me this and asked that I forward it to the list.Art Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 10:09:14 -0400From: Reed Curry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)X-Accept-Language: en Subject: Re: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) Art,I've been very quiet on this subject, as we seem to go over thisground once ayear. However, I can't demure forever, so...This philosophical position has been around for at least acentury. I, concur with it... for my own pleasure on stream. In fact, I gave up flyfishing forten years simply because I wasn't killing and eating the fish.The modern view of sport fishing, which involves areligious adherenceto Catchand Release, was initiated by businessmen such as Lee Wulff, whoownedsport camps,or guided fishermen, and wanted to provide the maximum attractionfortheir sports.Wind-up fish hadn't been invented, so Lee decided to offerre-cycled fish."A fishis too valuable (to him) to use just once". This view seemsantitheticalto anacknowledgement of fish as a part of a natural world which manshouldnurture andprotect. How strange that the proponents of C&R seem to have asmugself-righteousness, when, in point of fact, they are merelyabusing fish.I equateC&R to a snowmobilier who chases deer through deep snow.Eventually, theanimalfounders, exhausted, and the proud sportsman walks up, forcesthe deer'shead underthe snow with his boot, takes a picture, and then sets off forother quarry.There are many valid fishery management policies, e.g.,slot limits,trophysections, mandatory kill sections, regulated entry, etc. C&Ris, IMHO, abarbaric,de-humanizing practice that may well provide PETA with all theammunitionthey needto bring sport fishing down. ******** The fairly strong language above is directed towardthe religionof C&R,not the practicioners, many of whom I know and enjoy fishing with.***********Art, should you see me frying a few fish for lunch by thewaterside,please come over, you're welcome to join me.Best regards,Reed"Don't Catch Your Limit, Limit Your Catch." Art Port wrote: one of hisspecials(many years back), Jacques Cousteau proclaimed thatfishermen who releasetheir catch are perverting the idea of fishing. He went onto say thatbasically, if you aren't going to eat your catch, you shouldn't bebothering the fish!If PETA hasn't gotten hold of THAT one, wait'll they do!Art /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from jon.beckton@asml.nl Tue Aug 10 06:08:17 1999 (MET DST) Subject: Re: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) Tony Young wrote: Before fishing is legislated to the point of non existance society as awhole will have to feel the need and that's a long way off though this isthe point I was attempting to make in a prev posting re. a change invalues due to severing ties with the natural world.The lunitic fringe guys are prob more the result of the pressures ofpopulation over using a limited resource. Something that hasn't been mentioned throughout this debate (I onlyjoined the list a few days ago so may have missed it if it was) is thatfishing/angling is the single biggest participator sport, by a hugemajority, in most countries. There may be a lunatic fringe, but "there'smore of us than there is of them" Jon BecktonNetherlands from harry37@epix.net Tue Aug 10 07:13:54 1999 IAA23534; Subject: Re: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) jon beckton wrote: Tony Young wrote: Before fishing is legislated to the point of non existance society as awhole will have to feel the need and that's a long way off though thisisthe point I was attempting to make in a prev posting re. a change invalues due to severing ties with the natural world.The lunitic fringe guys are prob more the result of the pressures ofpopulation over using a limited resource. Something that hasn't been mentioned throughout this debate (I onlyjoined the list a few days ago so may have missed it if it was) is thatfishing/angling is the single biggest participator sport, by a huge>majority, in most countries. There may be a lunatic fringe, but "there'smore of us than there is of them" Jon BecktonNetherlands Good point, although apathy is probably hurting hunting as much as lossof habitat and the tree-huggers--everyone figures that someone else willtake up the fight and fight it for them. True, there's safety innumbers, but the numbers have to look out for themselves. A lot oftack-on legislation either slipped into some unrelated legislationbecause noone noticed, or got stopped because someone was watching andblew the whistle. Don't get complacent--it's killing bowhunting in a lot of areas---- hopefully we can learn from those losses. Greg from jon.beckton@asml.nl Tue Aug 10 07:48:45 1999 Tue, 10 Aug 1999 14:48:42 +0200 (MET DST) "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) Greg,Maybe I didn't say it right but that's what I meant. When the time comesto stand up and be counted, if indeed it ever does, there are more of usto stand up than there are lunatic fringers. Go well Jon Beckton Greg Kuntz wrote: ....apathy is probably hurting hunting as much as lossof habitat and the tree- huggers--everyone figures that someone else >will take up thefight and fight it for them. True, there's safety innumbers, but the numbers have to look out for themselves. Don't get complacent--it's killing bowhunting in a lot of areas----hopefully we can learn from those losses. Greg from anglport@con2.com Tue Aug 10 07:54:57 1999 Subject: Re: Sticking Ferrules As long s it's come up, I have a saltwater Loomis Gl-4 which Istupidlywaxed (with ferrule wax from, I believe, Hille) because another rod slidapart while casting and snapped when there was too little male ferruleinside the female. I either used too much wax or didn't buff it wellenough, or the wax was crap, but I now have a 9' one pc rod (great fortravelling!)I have tried: the behind-the-knee trick the two-man method heating the female, cooling the male heating the whole shebang (with boiling water) making a "die" (in two halves) that slipped over the male, buttedagainstthe female and used that and the handle to provide grips for the two-manmethod spraying WD-40 into the "slot" to try to dissolve the wax or "slipperyup"the ways I haven't tried to do it in a storm (yet) but I'm getting close (it was abeautiful day, sorta ;0, when it became stuck) A friend suggested applying Goo-Gone to the rod and hanging it so thestuff would run down into the slot and dissolve the wax a la the WD-40try. Anybody got any bright ideas I HAVEN'T already used up? It's beenalmosttwo years now. Every now and then I get fired up, or a brainstorm, and Itry something anew.Thanks,Art At 09:39 PM 8/9/99 EDT, MasjC1@aol.com wrote:I had an interesting experience two weeks ago. from if6were9@bellsouth.net Tue Aug 10 09:05:30 1999 Subject: Re: Sticking Ferrules I'm sure you've tried this, but as you did not mention it in your post I'llchanceit. Have you tried twisting as you pulled? Art Port wrote: As long s it's come up, I have a saltwater Loomis Gl-4 which Istupidlywaxed (with ferrule wax from, I believe, Hille) because another rod slidapart while casting and snapped when there was too little male ferruleinside the female. I either used too much wax or didn't buff it wellenough, or the wax was crap, but I now have a 9' one pc rod (great fortravelling!)I have tried: the behind-the-knee trick the two-man method heating the female, cooling the male heating the whole shebang (with boiling water) making a "die" (in two halves) that slipped over the male, buttedagainstthe female and used that and the handle to provide grips for the two-manmethod spraying WD-40 into the "slot" to try to dissolve the wax or"slippery up"the ways I haven't tried to do it in a storm (yet) but I'm getting close (it wasabeautiful day, sorta ;0, when it became stuck) A friend suggested applying Goo-Gone to the rod and hanging it sothestuff would run down into the slot and dissolve the wax a la the WD-40try. Anybody got any bright ideas I HAVEN'T already used up? It's beenalmosttwo years now. Every now and then I get fired up, or a brainstorm, and Itry something anew.Thanks,Art At 09:39 PM 8/9/99 EDT, MasjC1@aol.com wrote:I had an interesting experience two weeks ago. from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Tue Aug 10 10:09:43 1999 post.interalpha.net(8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id QAA29041 for ;Tue, 10 Aug 199916:16:59 +0100 Subject: Rod inscriptions boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001C_01BEE336.E6902CA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BEE336.E6902CA0 Yes agreed, and further to that - you need to put on a couple of varnishcoats, then flat back with 1000 grit or steel wool. The benefits aretwofold: firstly, the matted surface encourages the ink to flow better =thana shiny varnished surface (which causes ink to bead up), and secondly, =itprevents the ink from staining the actual cane surface. Try putting on athin length of straight edged masking tape to provide a guide. Low =letterloops or lines (as in g, and p) can be added AFTER the tape is peeled =off.This works particularly well with spiralled names. Another small point. On blond rods black acrylic drawing ink works =betterthan Indian ink. On dark and flamed cane, white acrylic drawing ink =looksvery smart. Printed clear lables look fine provided they are incorporated into the =areaimmediately above the check winding, where you'd expect a bit of a =bulge.It's a game of varnish/sand/varnish/sand - until the thickness of the =filmis incorporated into the overall thickness. Without sanding back a bigvarnish bump is created, which looks look awful. But, such lables are =betterconfined to trade motifs, which add a professional air to the finished =rod.Written names in any style of font seem to look rather cheap and nasty =whenstuck along or spiralled around a thin cane blank. I've completed hundreds of rods using this system, and my customers seem=tohave been well pleased with the effect. Greetings to all. I STILL haven't heard from Davy Rigg. Does anyone know what gives with =him? John Cooper(England) ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Radiographic Pen Hi to all,I too have fussed around with various ways of putting inking on the =rod.The clear label idea doesn't work very well because you can still see =thesort of transparent label after it's varnished and it doesn't look allthatgreat. it seems to me I recall buying a set of three Pigma Micron pens =insizes 0.5, 0.3, 0.1 and found that the finest point worked the best.Another little trick in using a fine pen nib and india ink is to put acoatof varnish on the rod first where the inking will be done, it =scratchesless.Ray ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BEE336.E6902CA0 Yes agreed, and further to that - you need to put on = of varnishcoats, then flat back with 1000 grit or steel wool. The = aretwofold: firstly, the matted surface encourages the ink to flow = thana shiny varnished surface (which causes ink to bead up), and = itprevents the ink from staining the actual cane surface. Try = athin length of straight edged masking tape to provide a guide. letterloops or lines (as in g, and p) can be added AFTER the tape is = off.This works particularly well with spiralled = point. On blond rods black acrylic drawing ink works betterthan = smart.Printed clear lables look fine provided they are = the areaimmediately above the check winding, where you'd expect a = bulge.It's a game of varnish/sand/varnish/sand - until the thickness = filmis incorporated into the overall thickness. Without sanding back = bigvarnish bump is created, which looks look awful. But, such lables = betterconfined to trade motifs, which add a professional air to the = rod.Written names in any style of font seem to look rather cheap and = whenstuck along or spiralled around a thin cane blank.I've = hundreds of rods using this system, and my customers seem tohave = pleased with the effect.Greetings to all.I STILL haven't = Cooper(England)----- Original Message -----From:Ray = =<rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Thursday, August 05, 1999 1:44 PMSubject: Radiographic = ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BEE336.E6902CA0-- from phillips@library.ucsf.edu Tue Aug 10 10:19:45 1999 Subject: Silk lines for Bamboo Rods Could anyone provide me with a source, or sources for silk lines? I'mlooking for a DT 4 wt.Thanks in advance,John Phillips from jjohnso4@bellsouth.net Tue Aug 10 12:08:43 1999 Subject: Re: Rod inscriptions At 01:47 PM 8/10/99 +0100, John Cooper wrote: I STILL haven't heard from Davy Rigg. Does anyone know what gives withhim? Hi John, Maybe he skipped to South America with the money he collected for thecork order. ;-( Later, Johnny ---------------------------------------------- Johnny Johnson Lilburn, GA from fquinchat@locl.net Tue Aug 10 12:53:12 1999 corsair.locl.net(8.9.0/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA10509 for ;Tue, 10 Aug 1999 Subject: Sept Rod Gathering in PA boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004A_01BEE32F.D50FC0A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01BEE32F.D50FC0A0 I am planning on attending the rod buidlers gathering in Boiling Springs = Dennis Bertram ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01BEE32F.D50FC0A0 I am planning on attending the rod buidlers = Dennis Bertram ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01BEE32F.D50FC0A0-- from anglport@con2.com Tue Aug 10 13:38:16 1999 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Rod inscriptions If he DID, he took with him a set of size 18 ferrules I sent him after hesaid he could duplicate them.Don't want to think that, but unless he dropped dead in the street and noone could identify him, I can't figure what the heck happened.Art At 01:07 PM 8/10/99 -0400, Johnny Johnson wrote: At 01:47 PM 8/10/99 +0100, John Cooper wrote: I STILL haven't heard from Davy Rigg. Does anyone know what gives withhim? Hi John, Maybe he skipped to South America with the money he collected for thecorkorder. ;-( Later,Johnny----------------------------------------------Johnny JohnsonLilburn, GA from Craig.Naldrett@ibm.net Tue Aug 10 16:59:18 1999 out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA112034 for;Tue, 10 Aug 1999 21:59:09 GMT Subject: Rodmakers Archives Tryed to look up something in the Archives (i.e. look at a specificmonths mail), got message about Joining Crosswinds first, what's up?Howdo you do this, any downsides (spam, junk mail etc??)CheersCraig from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Aug 10 17:52:35 1999 Subject: Re: RE: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) PETA I always thought that stood for People Eating Tasty Animals from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Aug 10 18:02:23 1999 Subject: Re: Off topic:Worst fishing trips Brian,Sounds like the kind of thing that happens at Hepple Pool. Tha locals don't like people coming into their area and fishing ( especially Americans) The stupid bastards don't realize how much the economy depends on thefishermen that come to their river. Maybe Richard Adams should give a lecture tothese people on how much they need us and they will act better. I know a guywho was at one of the little canteens along HWY 132 between Causapscal and Routhierville and got ripped off for about $ 6000.00 worth of gear. Wecould all go to New Brunswick and fish the Miramichi for a couple of years andsee how much they miss us in Quebec. Probably the seperationist people AY.Bret from hexagon@odyssee.net Tue Aug 10 18:03:56 1999 Subject: where are they now? I have noticed that uncle George has removed the jpegs on his site ofall guys that helped him get into production. He has left a picture ofhimself and added some self praise.Without shipping a rod he has already stepped upmarket and isintroducing a $2000 bastard?Strange, eh? I can remember him saying that custom rodmakers wereripping off the public by overcharging for their work?When you start charging over $1500 for a rod, a hand plane is plenty,you dont get too much work.I really thought he was genuine. I guess I cannot be right all the time. Terry from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Aug 10 18:12:47 1999 Subject: Rod list List,since I have had such a great response from the list is there anyone who would be put out if I listed my rods on the rodmakers page?Bret from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Tue Aug 10 19:07:14 1999 with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.84.R) Subject: Re: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) PETA I always thought that stood for People Eating Tasty Animals I love it!!!!!!!!! Yum Yum from brewer@teleport.com Tue Aug 10 19:15:25 1999 "hamachi"via SMTP by relay1.teleport.com, id smtpdAAA0iNZLs; Tue Aug 1017:15:12 1999 0700 Subject: Thanks from Oregon I would like to say thank you to several people that made it possible for me to build my first bamboo rod.Al Bellinger has been very helpful to me and has supplied me with his wonderful products at a price I could afford. Chris McDowell of Eugenehas offered me encouragement and was always willing to answer one of mystupid questions. Rob Clarke of Eastern Oregon also encouraged me. I can now appreciate your determination to learn without a mentor, Rob. Bill Baldwin has been building rods in Westfir, Oregon since the 1960s from mostlynew, unfinished South Bend bamboo blanks. Bill taught me quite a bit of what I know about finishing rods, but not nearly all he knows! Dan Brock ofLowell was very generous with his knowledge of bamboo and shared muchinformation about his wonderful collection of the "best of the best" bamboo rods from the classic era. I have been very fortunate to learn a little bit from each of these fine people. Although I have not posted much, I have lurked here every day and learned much from members of this listserve, as well.Thanks to you all.Lastly (and mostly) I would like to thank Allen (aka A.J.) Thramer of Eugene. Allen invited me into his shop on many evenings when he shouldhave been building his own rods to teach me how to build mine. He is a good teacher and a fine rod builder. Thanks Allen, for your patience and your generosity. You make some fine sticks. Randy Brewer from MasjC1@aol.com Tue Aug 10 19:18:52 1999 Subject: Re: Sticking Ferrules Tony, The taper for the Driggs River came from Frank Stetzer's Web Interface to Hexrod (www.uwm.edu/~stetzer/hexrod.html). It is in the archive section under Paul Young. The taper came from measurements that WayneCattanach made from the beveler. I like the way it casts. It is a bit slower than the Sir D Favorite. I did not have any problems reaching out to the distances that I normally fish -- 40' to 50' max with most fishing done with in 15 to 20 feet. I had planned to do some side by side comparisons of the Driggs, The Sir D favorite andthe Garrison 201. All these rods are 4 wt. 2 pc 7' (Driggs is 7' 2") with very different tapers. However fishing got in the way and I ended up fishingthe rods on alternate days and did no direct comparisons. The Garrison is the slowest with the Sir D the fastest. At this point I can't tell which I prefer, but I lean to the Sir D. My wife likes the Garrison the best. I hope this helps. Mark from HARMS1@prodigy.net Tue Aug 10 20:34:55 1999 Tue, 10 Aug 1999 21:34:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Rod Capacity (Off subject-Catch and Relea...) boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01BEE377.E0D19EC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BEE377.E0D19EC0 All, a "primal" need and not an essential one (few of us fish because we need =to feed our families). I'm not real certain where this observation =leaves one, but it does seem to me that we fishermen love to justify our =obsession with fishing with allusions to religion, spirituality and/or =ecological pursuits--as if fishing were a sort of noble undertaking. I do not delude myself into thinking that I am justified because I am =partaking of some ancestral need for bloodsport. Bloodsport it is, and =ancient, but is an activity for my pleasure that occurs only at the =expense of another living thing, whether I kill it or "merely" exhaust =it. There's no getting around it, either, with romantic appeals to the ="noble savage" that beats in our breasts--fishing is no doubt cruel to =the fish. Oh, but we say, "the fish are not like humans, they have no =soul or psyche, and they probably don't even feel the pain as we would." = the world by nobility and commoners alike." Well, ancient it is, and =egalitarian too, but I don't suppose (if we could ask) that the trout =would be particularly keen on our ideas as to what we mean by "sport." =Other animals play, to be sure, but how many other animals engage in =what WE call "sport?" (Well, cats and their prey, perhaps). We need to grow up, I think, and simply admit that we fish because we =like to. There is no need to glorify the activity, nor do we need to =become entangled in questions either of psychology or religion. We fish =because we like to do it. It gives us some kind of pleasure, but the =activity probably cannot stand up to too much scrutiny as to the = Some folks are vegetarians and can't stand the idea of eating meat, but =I don't mind it. Others can't stand the thought of shooting game with =guns, but I don't mind. Some people can't stand vulgarity, but, =frankly, I sometimes enjoy "talking trash." Others hate alcohol, but I =don't mind a little. I also hear that it's proper to be politically =correct, but I'm not, particularly. Perhaps, in my dotage, some might =observe that I simply have no standards at all. Well, I don't know. =Most likely, I have neither more nor fewer than anyone else. So, I =would also have to say that I don't mind fishing, even while I know full =well that it is not a particularly kind thing to do to a fish. I can't =really justify that, nor do I particularly feel the need to. As to the practice of C&R, it has nothing to do with ethics, morals, =spirituality or philosophy. It has to do only with our current thinking =on the practical question of how best to preserve a high quality of =fishing for the future. It has to do with pragmatic issues of =conservation of our fishery. But perhaps our present thinking on C&R is =a yet another delusion. I don't know. Maybe, in the long run, C&R =accomplishes nothing. I don't know for sure. Perhaps there are other =measures we ought to be taking instead (or in concert). But, for the =time being anyhow, I am satisfied that the practice of C&R is preferable =to "creel limits." And this, if only because C&R waters discourage the =bait fishermen and the meat-hunters from marauding quality fisheries. Cheers, Bill -----Original Message-----From: David Kashuba Date: Monday, August 09, 1999 10:26 AMSubject: Re: Rod Capacity (Off subject-Catch and Relea...) Rodmakers, It should not be difficult to see that many think of sport = torture of one living thing for the enjoyment of another. Dragging a = need not hurt another living thing for one's own survival why = religions.What is not simple is the primal need for man ( mostly men) to = partake in bloodsport or sport or warfare.Awesome hatch of P.E.D.s on the lower Yuba last night. The = reflecting silver on the water silhouetting rising fish on my = drift. David KashubaFair Oaks, CA _______________________________________________________________Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BEE377.E0D19EC0 All, But I think we do= acknowledge that our desire to catch fish is a"primal" = an essential one (few of us fish because we need to feed our = I'm not real certain where this observation leaves one, but it does seem = that we fishermen love to justify our obsession with fishing with = sort of noble undertaking. I love to fish, butI = I do not delude = thinking that I am justified because I am partaking of some ancestral = pleasure that occurs only at the expense of another living thing, = it or "merely" exhaust it. There's no getting= either, with romantic appeals to the "noble savage" that beats= fish are not like humans, they have no soul or psyche, and they probably = anything about what it may or may not be like to be a = "But fishingis = time-honored sport, enjoyed throughout the world bynobility = don't suppose (if we could ask) that the trout would be particularly = = "sport?" (Well, cats and their prey, =perhaps). We need to growup, I = kind of pleasure, but the activity probably cannot stand up to too much = Some folks are = = even while I know full well that it is not a particularly kind thing to = to. As to the practiceof = to do only with our current thinking on the practical question of how = = meat-hunters from marauding quality fisheries. Bill -----Original = RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= <RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= Monday, August 09, 1999 10:26 AMSubject: Re: Rod = be difficult to see that many think of sport fishing as the = one living thing for the enjoyment of another. Dragging a fish in = lip, tongue, or throat must be a bit stressful to the fish. If one = not hurt another living thing for one's own survival why disturb = living thing? This concept is really very simple and parallels = night. The twilight was reflecting silver on the water = = = =CA___________________________________________________________= Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BEE377.E0D19EC0-- from rsgould@cmc.net Tue Aug 10 23:55:14 1999 Subject: F.E.Thomas Hi to all,Does anyone out there have a taper for an F.E. Thomas Fairy rod? If so,would you like to share? I've checked the rodmakers taper list but don'tfind it. I believe it's a 4wt.Ray from stpete@netten.net Wed Aug 11 00:06:52 1999 (may beforged)) Wed, 11 Aug 1999 00:08:25 -0500 Subject: Driggs River (was: Sticking Ferrules) I built a rod based on Wayne Cattanach's posting of several years backand used Hexrod to calculate the taper on 5" centers. It comes outnearly identical to the Stetzer version. I love my Driggs and spendmany days casting it on the front lawn. I've come to believe it toperforms best with a TT4/5 or a WF5, though I can't throw really tightloops with the 5 wt, it will cast 50-60 feet with minimal effort andmovement. I'm not a good caster, but I'm starting to get the rythym ofthis one down. Am I overloading this rod? It flexes well into thebutt, but isn't a para supposed to? Can anyone else comment on their line preference for this rod? My onlyreal worry is what it is like to handle a 18"+ fish on THIS particularrod. But I guess a good fish would put a mighty bend well into the buttof the rod, regardless of line weight when handling fish. Rick C. Tony, The taper for the Driggs River came from Frank Stetzer's Web InterfacetoHexrod (www.uwm.edu/~stetzer/hexrod.html). It is in the archivesectionunder Paul Young. The taper came from measurements that WayneCattanach made from the beveler. I like the way it casts. It is a bit slower than the Sir D Favorite. I didnot have any problems reaching out to the distances that I normally fish--40' to 50' max with most fishing done with in 15 to 20 feet. I hadplannedto do some side by side comparisons of the Driggs, The Sir D favorite andtheGarrison 201. All these rods are 4 wt. 2 pc 7' (Driggs is 7' 2") with verydifferent tapers. However fishing got in the way and I ended up fishingtherods on alternate days and did no direct comparisons. The Garrison istheslowest with the Sir D the fastest. At this point I can't tell which Iprefer, but I lean to the Sir D. My wife likes the Garrison the best. I hope this helps. Mark from scan.oest@post.tele.dk Wed Aug 11 02:08:27 1999 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0200 Subject: Sv: Driggs River (was: Sticking Ferrules) Rick wrote (snipped). from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Aug 11 02:29:38 1999 Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:33:39 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: Driggs River (was: Sticking Ferrules) Mark & Rick & anybody else interested.All the Driggs I've made have been on the taper WC posted some timeback and I've always felt it casts best with a DT#4. I'm making one formyself right now and I'll try a WF#4 that I bought since trying thelast one when it's done but for my style I think a DT#5 is a bit heavyeven though it's suposed to be 4/5 weight.You wont have any trouble with 18" fish on a Driggs. Tony On Wed, 11 Aug 1999, Rick Crenshaw wrote: I built a rod based on Wayne Cattanach's posting of several years backand used Hexrod to calculate the taper on 5" centers. It comes outnearly identical to the Stetzer version. I love my Driggs and spendmany days casting it on the front lawn. I've come to believe it toperforms best with a TT4/5 or a WF5, though I can't throw really tightloops with the 5 wt, it will cast 50-60 feet with minimal effort andmovement. I'm not a good caster, but I'm starting to get the rythym ofthis one down. Am I overloading this rod? It flexes well into thebutt, but isn't a para supposed to? Can anyone else comment on their line preference for this rod? My onlyreal worry is what it is like to handle a 18"+ fish on THIS particularrod. But I guess a good fish would put a mighty bend well into the buttof the rod, regardless of line weight when handling fish. Rick C. Tony, The taper for the Driggs River came from Frank Stetzer's WebInterface toHexrod (www.uwm.edu/~stetzer/hexrod.html). It is in the archivesectionunder Paul Young. The taper came from measurements that WayneCattanach made from the beveler. I like the way it casts. It is a bit slower than the Sir D Favorite. I didnot have any problems reaching out to the distances that I normallyfish --40' to 50' max with most fishing done with in 15 to 20 feet. I hadplannedto do some side by side comparisons of the Driggs, The Sir D favoriteand theGarrison 201. All these rods are 4 wt. 2 pc 7' (Driggs is 7' 2") withverydifferent tapers. However fishing got in the way and I ended up fishingtherods on alternate days and did no direct comparisons. The Garrison istheslowest with the Sir D the fastest. At this point I can't tell which Iprefer, but I lean to the Sir D. My wife likes the Garrison the best. I hope this helps. Mark /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Aug 11 07:10:42 1999 Wed, 11 Aug 1999 20:15:09 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: where are they now? It is surprising GG has had such a hard time given the money he threw atthe job but I guess if you know everything you have nothing left to learn or maybe nobody left wanting to help. Tony On Tue, 10 Aug 1999, TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: I have noticed that uncle George has removed the jpegs on his site ofall guys that helped him get into production. He has left a picture ofhimself and added some self praise.Without shipping a rod he has already stepped upmarket and isintroducing a $2000 bastard?Strange, eh? I can remember him saying that custom rodmakers wereripping off the public by overcharging for their work?When you start charging over $1500 for a rod, a hand plane is plenty,you dont get too much work.I really thought he was genuine. I guess I cannot be right all the time. Terry /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Aug 11 07:36:22 1999 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: killer rod A Tasmanian bamboo rodmaker called me today and regailed me with talesofhis fishing trip to Cairns in Northern Queensland where he showed somelocals how things are done with a Gillum 506.Peter says he caught 5 Barramundi, 3 Mangrove Jack and several GiantTrevali which I think some people have taken to call Permit over a prettyrelaxed 2 days of bamboo flexing fishfesting.Mike Roberts and I cast this rod a few months back using a DT#6 and itwasa bit disapointing until I put a WF#8 on. Mike's a better distance casterthan I and he consistantly cast not just to the backing but about 20 feet ofbacking as well. It's a slow rod but but can really throw a line. Tony /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from harry37@epix.net Wed Aug 11 08:28:06 1999 JAA17442; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: PETA I always thought that stood for People Eating Tasty Animals IF God didn't mean for man to eat animals, why then did He make them outof food? from destinycon@mindspring.com Wed Aug 11 08:38:07 1999 Subject: Re: Sticking Ferrules Art,Here's something that might work, it's a modernized version ofFrankfortArsenal's Bore Solvent #18, it's called Ed's Red. (Sorry I can't tell youwho Ed is or where I even got it from.) It's made from equal partsKerosene, Transmision Fluid, Mineral Spirits, and Acetone. I find it worksinto parts and removes old grease and oil nicely, so it just might turn thetrick. I'd keep it off the finish and handle it properly, but I thinkyou're old enough to know that drill. Good luck.Regards, Gary H. At 08:56 AM 8/10/99 -0400, Art Port wrote:As long s it's come up, I have a saltwater Loomis Gl-4 which Istupidlywaxed (with ferrule wax from, I believe, Hille) because another rod slidapart while casting and snapped when there was too little male ferruleinside the female. I either used too much wax or didn't buff it wellenough, or the wax was crap, but I now have a 9' one pc rod (great fortravelling!)I have tried: the behind-the-knee trick the two-man method heating the female, cooling the male heating the whole shebang (with boiling water) making a "die" (in two halves) that slipped over the male, buttedagainstthe female and used that and the handle to provide grips for the two-manmethod spraying WD-40 into the "slot" to try to dissolve the wax or "slipperyup"the ways I haven't tried to do it in a storm (yet) but I'm getting close (it was abeautiful day, sorta ;0, when it became stuck) A friend suggested applying Goo-Gone to the rod and hanging it so thestuff would run down into the slot and dissolve the wax a la the WD-40try. Anybody got any bright ideas I HAVEN'T already used up? It's beenalmosttwo years now. Every now and then I get fired up, or a brainstorm, and Itry something anew.Thanks,Art At 09:39 PM 8/9/99 EDT, MasjC1@aol.com wrote:I had an interesting experience two weeks ago. from Canerods@aol.com Wed Aug 11 09:17:43 1999 Subject: Farlow rod taper? All, I was going through some old rod lists (Art Warner/Phil Snyder Summer'96) and spotted a rod listed as: 6'2-1/4" -- so marked on butt -- "Designed by Lee Wulff/Made byFarlow's/in Aberdeen, Scotland/for Norn Thompson", S/N 336, circa prob 1960s"....... Their rod had a cigar grip and all cork reelseat, varnished cane, dark blue wraps/gold tipping and reverse twist guides. Rated as a 3/4 wt. - fast parabolic action rod. They seeed to like the DT4 line better with the rod. Well, I just happen to own a 6'2-1/4" Norm Thompson by Farlow. (no S/Nand no ref. to Lee Wulff on mine) - has a cigar grip with a wood reelseat spacer. Mine has black wraps (dark blue?)/gold tipping & rev. twist guides. I was told it was a 4/5 wt rod when I bought it. I like it with a DT4 line. Does anyone out there know if would I have the same taper on my rod asthe above rod? How many differnt tapers exist for a 6'2-1/4" rod? I picked mine for a song a few years ago and so far have only test cast it and taken it to the local stream once - it been on the list of rods that I plan to "get to real soon" - for about 18 mts. But mine appears to be a varnished rod with a light coat of satin polyurethane over the the original varnish, IMHO. It has a cracked tip (I removed a white silk overwrap tofind it was unglued!) and a short tip (was broken at the ferrule) I guess I'll move it to the head of the line so that it's finished in time be quite thick and therefore I might not be very accurate. BUT I DO LOVETHIS ROD'S TAPER. Thx, Don Burns from drodgers@ddaccess.net Wed Aug 11 10:12:50 1999 ddasvr1.ddaccess.comwith SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) Subject: Re: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) Reed,I agree with your position. It has bothered me for years hearing peoplebragabout that they caught an excessive number of fish and let them go. I fishalot on the coast here in Virginia for Striped Bass. The limit is 2 fish over18 inches. When I catch my limit I quit and head for home. Last fall I wentto the local fly shop and they the owners are showing a special fly thatthey say they caught dozens of Striped Bass on a few days before. Inallprobablity they killed many of the fish that they caught. C & R is greatifa person limits the number of fish caught. Dan -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) Ed,Mike B. tells me I might be back in touch with Rodmakers. I'll tryanyway.Regarding what may be confusing about my previous post: I am not infavor of C&R! In this I joinexcellent company; for example, A.A. Luce who has an interesting chapteronEthics in Angling in hisbook "Fishing and Thinking".Slot limits and other size limits have been a valid angling practicesince, at least, the thirties.In many states, when I was young, trout under six inches were releasedbylaw. Good sportsmanshiptaught that any fish of legal length were creeled, up to the limit (15-25trout). Of course, thosehigh limits were unmanageable, not only could the streams not support25trout per day per angler, butfew anglers had a use for 25 trout. As well, the leader material (nylon)was 1/3rd or less thebreaking strength of modern leaders... few fishermen would catch theirlegal limit. But what was moresignificant was the approach to fishing, it was known as Fishing, notCatching. Catching fish was awelcome corrolary to the day onstream, but the purpose was fishing. Ineverheard of 50 or 100-fishdays until Wulff (an ad man from New York) started touting "Fish for Fun"(what were we doingbefore??). Then Gingrich suggested using a golf counter to keep track ofhow many fish one landed. Sothe cult was born.It's not really that hard to walk away from a river, or just sit andwatch the evening rise, afteryou have caught (and perhaps released) your personal limit. When I go toone particular stream, Ialways say to myself, "I'll keep anything over 14 inches, and quit after 5fish landed." This works make this last for many hours. Best regards,Reed eestlow@srminc.com wrote: To the List: As the list is relatively quiet, I'll jump in here. With all due respect to Reed, I do not understand his post. In his secondparagraph I believe he says he concurs (essentially agrees) with Catch&Release. Then he goes on to state a fairly anti- C&R position. Am Imissingsomething? Other statements are confusing, too. For instance, theconceptsof slot limits and trophy sections are valid. But how can one cooperatewith a slot limit or trophy section without releasing fish? (Iwas not aware that C&R was invention of the fishing businesscommunity.)Onthe other hand, the remarks about C&R equating to various forms ofanimalcruelty are thought provoking, to say the least. I'm from Minnesota,wherenorthern pike and walleye are co-kings, so this is one of the placeswherePETA chose to run Ms. McCartney's commentary. Needless to say, it didnotplay well here. The biggest problem with that ad was that itanthropomorphized fish. That is to say, it projected human qualities onananimal with a very different nervous system, to say nothing of one withavery different psyche. I have few answers, but would request that we all be clear aboutstatingthe facts and opinions which we debate. Best regards,-Ed Estlow from jackdale@uswest.net Wed Aug 11 10:30:53 1999 (206.196.156.235) Subject: Re: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) Guys,"In all probability" is, at best, a guess. It certainly isn't proof of any kindand so can't really justify a position. Does anybody know of any studiesdonethat quantify mortality among released trout under specified conditions?Jack Dale drodgers wrote: Reed,I agree with your position. It has bothered me for years hearing peoplebragabout that they caught an excessive number of fish and let them go. Ifish alot on the coast here in Virginia for Striped Bass. The limit is 2 fishover18 inches. When I catch my limit I quit and head for home. Last fall Iwentto the local fly shop and they the owners are showing a special fly thatthey say they caught dozens of Striped Bass on a few days before. In allprobablity they killed many of the fish that they caught. C & R is great ifa person limits the number of fish caught. Dan -----Original Message-----From: Reed Curry Date: Monday, August 09, 1999 5:00 PMSubject: Re: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) Ed,Mike B. tells me I might be back in touch with Rodmakers. I'll tryanyway.Regarding what may be confusing about my previous post: I am not infavor of C&R! In this I joinexcellent company; for example, A.A. Luce who has an interestingchapter onEthics in Angling in hisbook "Fishing and Thinking".Slot limits and other size limits have been a valid angling practicesince, at least, the thirties.In many states, when I was young, trout under six inches were releasedbylaw. Good sportsmanshiptaught that any fish of legal length were creeled, up to the limit (15-25trout). Of course, thosehigh limits were unmanageable, not only could the streams not support25trout per day per angler, butfew anglers had a use for 25 trout. As well, the leader material (nylon)was 1/3rd or less thebreaking strength of modern leaders... few fishermen would catch theirlegal limit. But what was moresignificant was the approach to fishing, it was known as Fishing, notCatching. Catching fish was awelcome corrolary to the day onstream, but the purpose was fishing. Ineverheard of 50 or 100-fishdays until Wulff (an ad man from New York) started touting "Fish forFun"(what were we doingbefore??). Then Gingrich suggested using a golf counter to keep track ofhow many fish one landed. Sothe cult was born.It's not really that hard to walk away from a river, or just sit andwatch the evening rise, afteryou have caught (and perhaps released) your personal limit. When I go toone particular stream, Ialways say to myself, "I'll keep anything over 14 inches, and quit after5fish landed." This works canmake this last for many hours. Best regards,Reed eestlow@srminc.com wrote: To the List: As the list is relatively quiet, I'll jump in here. With all due respect to Reed, I do not understand his post. In hissecondparagraph I believe he says he concurs (essentially agrees) with Catch&Release. Then he goes on to state a fairly anti- C&R position. Am Imissingsomething? Other statements are confusing, too. For instance, theconceptsof slot limits and trophy sections are valid. But how can one cooperatewith a slot limit or trophy section without releasing fish? (Iwas not aware that C&R was invention of the fishing businesscommunity.)Onthe other hand, the remarks about C&R equating to various forms ofanimalcruelty are thought provoking, to say the least. I'm from Minnesota,wherenorthern pike and walleye are co-kings, so this is one of the placeswherePETA chose to run Ms. McCartney's commentary. Needless to say, it didnotplay well here. The biggest problem with that ad was that itanthropomorphized fish. That is to say, it projected human qualitiesonananimal with a very different nervous system, to say nothing of onewith avery different psyche. I have few answers, but would request that we all be clear aboutstatingthe facts and opinions which we debate. Best regards,-Ed Estlow from destinycon@mindspring.com Wed Aug 11 10:37:54 1999 Subject: Re: Sticking Ferrules Please DON'T use this on graphite rods! Art has already pointed out,tome, that I can't read (Loomis). This stuff works on metal not plastic.Gary H. At 09:47 AM 7/11/99 -0400, Heidt wrote:Art,Here's something that might work, it's a modernized version ofFrankfortArsenal's Bore Solvent #18, it's called Ed's Red. (Sorry I can't tell youwho Ed is or where I even got it from.) It's made from equal partsKerosene, Transmision Fluid, Mineral Spirits, and Acetone. I find itworksinto parts and removes old grease and oil nicely, so it just might turn thetrick. I'd keep it off the finish and handle it properly, but I thinkyou're old enough to know that drill. Good luck.Regards, Gary H. At 08:56 AM 8/10/99 -0400, Art Port wrote:As long s it's come up, I have a saltwater Loomis Gl-4 which I from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Aug 11 10:40:13 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:39:55 -0500 "Flyfish @ mailing list" ,"Gaston's" , Mark Metcalf ,"Joseph S.Kallo" , Greg ,Jeremy Brynildson ,Marty Steffenson ,Michael Villa ,"Mike Verduin (E-mail)" ,Ron Barch ,Ron Shanaver ,Scott Branyan ,Stan Rambin , Stuart Kirkfield,"Sue K." , Tim Cotita Subject: Southern Rodmakers Gathering 1999 Friends,I haven't said much on the list about this lately.So here goes:I apologize if this is a repeat for some of you.Harry The 1999 Southern Rodmakers Gathering will conveneon Thursday October 28, 1999 in Mountain Home, Arkansasat DaleFulton's Lodge on the White River. The RegistrationFee for SRG '99is $25.00. This fee covers all the promotional costs,overhead and several meals. Harry Boyd507 HighlandWinnsboro, Louisiana 71295. Also and IMPORTANT, each person attending is askedto bringsomething for a Friday evening silent auction. At leastone Lie-Nielsen scraper plane will be auctioned. You can bringanything from a few hand-tied flies to a culm of cane to a fewnice corkrings to some nice silk thread to a mint conditionGillum, Payne,or Garrison rod. Schedule Of Activities Thursday October 284:00 pm Registration OpensSilent Auction begins6:00 Evening Meal at Fulton's7:00 First SeminarHow to Catch Fish on the White andNorth Fork RiversTom Rogers, TNT Flyfishing8:00 Tying flies for the White River System Harry Boyd, (and anyone who has aneat fish catcher!) Friday, October 29 6:00 am Light Breakfast and Cajun Coffee,then go fishing!10:00 First Demonstration12:00 noon Kurt Loup's Gen-U-Ine Cajun Gumbo3:00 pm Last Demonstration, (fishafterwards)6:00 pm Friday night party and meal atFulton's Silent Auction ConcludesDoor Prizes Saturday, October 30 6:00 am Light Breakfast and Cajun Coffee,then go fishing!10:00 Demonstrations begin12:00 noon Lunch, and officially dismiss, but mostof us will hangaround and fish and cast andcontinue to have fun We still have several openings for demonstrations,lectures, round-tables, etc.If you have an idea, contact Harry -- he will try towork you in.BTW, this is a great way to promote your work! Planneddemonstrations and forums include: ~ A "Home-grown" copy of Al Medved'sBeveler -MikeBiondo (with input from Charlie Curro,Morten Lovstad, andothers who have built their ownBevelers) ~ Signing Rods, roughing out on abandsaw, and a supersimple binder - Morten Lovstad ~ The Cosmic Cast-off -- A hands-on,do it yourself,on-going demonstration of variousrods, lengths, tapers,and actions. (Harry needs some helpwith this - pleasevolunteer your rods and yourexpertise) ~ Richard Tyree's demo in 1998 was abig hit! He has agreed toshare generously from hisimagination again, plus throw in afew new ideas this year. ~ Bill Lamberson will bring his MorganHand Mill again -- a neatpiece of equipment. ~ Wayne Cattanach will be kept busywith workshops,demonstrations, and lectures. ~ Jon Bokstrom has produced a slideshow on his splitting techniqueswhich allow one to maximize usablecane from your culms. There are plenty of places to stay in MountainHome. Ifyou need more information you can follow some of thelinks at theWeb site Charlie Curro designed athttp://www.curro.net/srg99/ orcall Dale Fulton's Blue Ribbon Flys for suggestions.If you'll drop me a note,off-list, I'll fax or snail mail a lodging list to you. If I can help you, give me a call at:(318) 435-4359 (days)435-2278 (home)Or, drop me a note at hboyd@fbcwin.com Here's a few of the folks planning to attend:Harry Boyd, Charlie Curro, Rick Crenshaw, Jody Titone,Russ Crabtree, Mike Biondo,Onis Cogburn, Joe Kallo, Lowell Davis, SteveTrauthwein, John Cole, Richard and Shirley Tyree, KurtLoup, Dennis Higham, Morten Lovstad, John Scarborough,Mark Evans,Ken Cole, Stuart Miller, Ron Wilhelm, Harold and EileenDemarest (Charles H. Demarest, Inc),Wayne Cattanach, Miles Tiernan, Mike Schaffer, HaroldJackson, Bob Nunley, Ron Wilhelm,Michael Chronister, Dan Rodgers, Ron Huff, Leo Eck,Jerry Ballard, Stuart Miller, ,Shawn Schmitz, JohnMadden, Cary Chan (Progress Trading Company), AlanGnann (REC Components) Hope this helps,Harry from darrelll@earthlink.net Wed Aug 11 10:59:03 1999 Subject: The Great Western Bishop CA Gathering It's been rather quiet on the GW gathering and the time is fastapproaching... is the gathering still a go??? Chuck??? If I can help, I would be happy to volunteer... I'll be out of town from9/8-9/25 however... I'll be on the east coast attending the PA gatheringandcane hounding... Darrell L. from tklein@amgen.com Wed Aug 11 11:19:41 1999 smtp.amgen.com via smap (3.2) Subject: RE: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) I too, limit my daily catch. (I wish I could honestly say it was voluntary...)---Tim from tklein@amgen.com Wed Aug 11 11:25:49 1999 smtp.amgen.com via smap (3.2) Subject: RE: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) I've seen the results of several studies in TU's quarterly publication overthe years. You might want to check their website to see if they have the articlesarchived there.---Tim ----------From: Jack Dale[SMTP:jackdale@uswest.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 9:35 AM Cc: Rodmakers listSubject: Re: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) Guys,"In all probability" is, at best, a guess. It certainly isn't proof ofany kindand so can't really justify a position. Does anybody know of any studiesdonethat quantify mortality among released trout under specifiedconditions?Jack Dale drodgers wrote: from phillips@library.ucsf.edu Wed Aug 11 11:50:28 1999 Subject: Re:(Off Topic - Study on trout survival after Catch AndRelease) I found a reference to a study done a few years back in the Biosisdatabase. They speculate that while mortality was negligible if the troutwere "played" for 5 to 15 minutes, breeding may be affected (see below).John PhillipsUniversity of California, San Francisco PS: I also found a study that found no difference in mortality whetherbarbed or barbless hooks are used, even with bait, if deeply hooked fishare released by cutting the leader. Personally I'll stick to smashing mybarbs and using flies. I know the hooks will come out me more easily, andI KNOW the worms don't like getting skewered. ;-) 8. Pankhurst, N W; Dedual, M.Effects of capture and recovery on plasma levels of cortisol, lactateandgonadal steroids in a natural population of rainbow trout.Journal of Fish Biology, v.45, n.6, (1994): 1013- 1025.Abstract:Rainbow trout were captured by angling from a run of spawning fish ontheTongariro River in northern New Zealand, to examine the effects ofcatchand release angling on stress and reproductive parameters. Fish werebloodsampled immediately after capture at playing times of lt 5 or 15 min,orafter 1 or 24 h of recovery in stream enclosures. Plasma samples wereassayed for cortisol (F), lactate, testosterone (T), 17- beta-oestradiol(E-2), and 17-alpha,20-beta-dihydroxy-4-pregnen-3-one (17,20-beta-P).Plasma F levels were similar to those of hatchery stocks of rainbowtrout,at capture, and became significantly elevated 1 h after capture. PlasmaFwas still elevated in some fish 24 h after capture. Plasma lactatelevelsbegan to increase 15 min after capture, were further elevated 1 h aftercapture, and had returned to normal 24 h after capture. We proposedthatmetabolic recovery had occurred but that some animals were stillexperiencing some degree of stress, possibly in response to holdingconditions in the river. Both plasma T and E-2 were depressed 24 haftercapture, whereas there was no change in plasma 17,20-beta-P. This isconsistent with other findings showing that acute stress is associatedwith depression of plasma levels of T and E-2. There was no mortalityas aresult of capture or any of the handling protocols. We conclude thatcatchand release angling will result in negligible mortality, but may have aninhibitory effect on some reproductive processes. from anglport@con2.com Wed Aug 11 12:10:10 1999 Subject: Re: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) This may not be any better than "in all probability", but it seems to methat I've read that under OPTIMUM conditions there is about a 4%mortality.I believe I saw it in the TU organ, "Trout".Art At 09:35 AM 8/11/99 -0600, Jack Dale wrote:Guys,"In all probability" is, at best, a guess. It certainly isn't proof ofany kindand so can't really justify a position. Does anybody know of any studiesdonethat quantify mortality among released trout under specified conditions?Jack Dale drodgers wrote: Reed,I agree with your position. It has bothered me for years hearing peoplebragabout that they caught an excessive number of fish and let them go. Ifish alot on the coast here in Virginia for Striped Bass. The limit is 2 fishover18 inches. When I catch my limit I quit and head for home. Last fall Iwentto the local fly shop and they the owners are showing a special fly thatthey say they caught dozens of Striped Bass on a few days before. In allprobablity they killed many of the fish that they caught. C & R is greatifa person limits the number of fish caught. Dan -----Original Message-----From: Reed Curry Date: Monday, August 09, 1999 5:00 PMSubject: Re: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) Ed,Mike B. tells me I might be back in touch with Rodmakers. I'll tryanyway.Regarding what may be confusing about my previous post: I am not infavor of C&R! In this I joinexcellent company; for example, A.A. Luce who has an interestingchapter onEthics in Angling in hisbook "Fishing and Thinking".Slot limits and other size limits have been a valid angling practicesince, at least, the thirties.In many states, when I was young, trout under six inches were releasedbylaw. Good sportsmanshiptaught that any fish of legal length were creeled, up to the limit (15-25trout). Of course, thosehigh limits were unmanageable, not only could the streams not support25trout per day per angler, butfew anglers had a use for 25 trout. As well, the leader material (nylon)was 1/3rd or less thebreaking strength of modern leaders... few fishermen would catch theirlegal limit. But what was moresignificant was the approach to fishing, it was known as Fishing, notCatching. Catching fish was awelcome corrolary to the day onstream, but the purpose was fishing. Ineverheard of 50 or 100-fishdays until Wulff (an ad man from New York) started touting "Fish forFun"(what were we doingbefore??). Then Gingrich suggested using a golf counter to keep trackofhow many fish one landed. Sothe cult was born.It's not really that hard to walk away from a river, or just sit andwatch the evening rise, afteryou have caught (and perhaps released) your personal limit. When I gotoone particular stream, Ialways say to myself, "I'll keep anything over 14 inches, and quit after5fish landed." This works canmake this last for many hours. Best regards,Reed eestlow@srminc.com wrote: To the List: As the list is relatively quiet, I'll jump in here. With all due respect to Reed, I do not understand his post. In hissecondparagraph I believe he says he concurs (essentially agrees) withCatch &Release. Then he goes on to state a fairly anti- C&R position. Am Imissingsomething? Other statements are confusing, too. For instance, theconceptsof slot limits and trophy sections are valid. But how can onecooperatewith a slot limit or trophy section without releasing fish? (Iwas not aware that C&R was invention of the fishing businesscommunity.)Onthe other hand, the remarks about C&R equating to various forms ofanimalcruelty are thought provoking, to say the least. I'm from Minnesota,wherenorthern pike and walleye are co-kings, so this is one of the placeswherePETA chose to run Ms. McCartney's commentary. Needless to say, itdidnotplay well here. The biggest problem with that ad was that itanthropomorphized fish. That is to say, it projected human qualitiesonananimal with a very different nervous system, to say nothing of onewith avery different psyche. I have few answers, but would request that we all be clear aboutstatingthe facts and opinions which we debate. Best regards,-Ed Estlow from irvine@bamboorods.org Wed Aug 11 16:23:45 1999 4.30.0012/LC0055.00.e068cef4) with ESMTP id rwdnaaaa for;Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:23:33 -0700 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Great Western, Bishop Darrell, Yep, sure has been silent, I posted a couple of times but I think thatall were fishing or something important like that. So far I have onespeaker who will give a program on the fishing opportunities around theBishop,Mammoth area. Should be a good one, he guides and owns Brocks Flyfishing store in Bishop. I will be off the computer for a short spell aswe make our final move to Bishop this Sat. the 15th, no more grindingback and forth between Bonita and Bishop 3 times a week. I would reallyappreciate your help on this gathering as no volunteers have steppedforeword except you. See what you can drum up and handle thecommunications until I get back on line in a week or so. I will check mymail until we depart. Thanks and welcome aboard. Chuck from jourdoktorn@starport.se Wed Aug 11 17:03:04 1999 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.5) with ESMTP id AAA36BA;Wed, 11 Aug 1999 23:51:38 +0200 Subject: Re: Farlow rod taper? Don and all, The House of Farlow-made Lee Wulff Midge Armour cane processed canerods werenot really "Midge" rods if you by that mean a light line weight rod. FromtheNorm Thompson Anglers Guide from 1966 there were 5 rods made in this"family 1. 6 ft, 1 5/8 oz one-piece, for line WF72. 6 ft, 1 7/8 oz, 2-piece, for line WF73. 6* ft, 2 1/4 oz, 2-piece, for line WF74. 7* ft, 3 7/8 oz, 2- piece, for line WF75. 8* ft, 4 7/8 oz, 2-piece, for line WF8 As you can see they were all WF7(8) rods. Several big salmons are told tohavebeen landed with the 2-pice, 6 ft rod. Maybe rods for lighter lines weremade but the family above are the rods that to my knowledge were known as the LeeWulffdesigned Farlow made rods.If your rod isn't marked Lee Wulff it probably is not a Lee Wulff designedrod. Best,Jan Nystrom Canerods@aol.com wrote: All, I was going through some old rod lists (Art Warner/Phil Snyder Summer'96)and spotted a rod listed as: 6'2-1/4" -- so marked on butt -- "Designed by Lee Wulff/Made byFarlow's/inAberdeen, Scotland/for Norn Thompson", S/N 336, circa prob 1960s"....... Their rod had a cigar grip and all cork reelseat, varnished cane, dark bluewraps/gold tipping and reverse twist guides. Rated as a 3/4 wt. - fastparabolic action rod. They seeed to like the DT4 line better with the rod. Well, I just happen to own a 6'2-1/4" Norm Thompson by Farlow. (no S/Nand noref. to Lee Wulff on mine) - has a cigar grip with a wood reelseat spacer.Mine has black wraps (dark blue?)/gold tipping & rev. twist guides. I wastold it was a 4/5 wt rod when I bought it. I like it with a DT4 line. Does anyone out there know if would I have the same taper on my rod astheabove rod? How many differnt tapers exist for a 6'2-1/4" rod? I picked mine for a song a few years ago and so far have only test cast itand taken it to the local stream once - it been on the list of rods that Iplan to "get to real soon" - for about 18 mts. But mine appears to beavarnished rod with a light coat of satin polyurethane over the theoriginalvarnish, IMHO. It has a cracked tip (I removed a white silk overwrap tofindit was unglued!) and a short tip (was broken at the ferrule) I guess I'll move it to the head of the line so that it's finished in time tobe quite thick and therefore I might not be very accurate. BUT I DO LOVETHISROD'S TAPER. Thx, Don Burns from TBUTLER@HEWM.COM Wed Aug 11 18:12:25 1999 [206.189.208.11] (may beforged)) by mail01-oak.pilot.net with SMTP id QAA01875 for; (WorldSecureServer SMTP Relay(WSS) v3.2); Wed, 11 Aug 99 16:11:18 - 0700 ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 16:12:18 -0700 Subject: RE: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) I believe the Washington Fish and Game people may have done some studiesinthe early 90's of catch and release mortality data in selected streams(note-may be different for stocked fish v. "wild" fish) I would suggest USFish and Wildlife Service web pages, University web pages 9or state fishandgame departments, especially in western states. -----Original Message-----From: Jack Dale [SMTP:jackdale@uswest.net]Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 8:35 AM Cc: Rodmakers listSubject: Re: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) Guys,"In all probability" is, at best, a guess. It certainly isn't proof ofany kindand so can't really justify a position. Does anybody know of any studiesdonethat quantify mortality among released trout under specifiedconditions?Jack Dale drodgers wrote: Reed,I agree with your position. It has bothered me for years hearing peoplebragabout that they caught an excessive number of fish and let them go. Ifish alot on the coast here in Virginia for Striped Bass. The limit is 2 fishover18 inches. When I catch my limit I quit and head for home. Last fall Iwentto the local fly shop and they the owners are showing a special fly thatthey say they caught dozens of Striped Bass on a few days before. In allprobablity they killed many of the fish that they caught. C & R is greatifa person limits the number of fish caught. Dan -----Original Message-----From: Reed Curry Date: Monday, August 09, 1999 5:00 PMSubject: Re: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) Ed,Mike B. tells me I might be back in touch with Rodmakers. I'll tryanyway.Regarding what may be confusing about my previous post: I am notinfavor of C&R! In this I joinexcellent company; for example, A.A. Luce who has an interestingchapter onEthics in Angling in hisbook "Fishing and Thinking".Slot limits and other size limits have been a valid angling practicesince, at least, the thirties.In many states, when I was young, trout under six inches werereleasedbylaw. Good sportsmanshiptaught that any fish of legal length were creeled, up to the limit(15-25trout). Of course, thosehigh limits were unmanageable, not only could the streams notsupport25trout per day per angler, butfew anglers had a use for 25 trout. As well, the leader material(nylon)was 1/3rd or less thebreaking strength of modern leaders... few fishermen would catchtheirlegal limit. But what was moresignificant was the approach to fishing, it was known as Fishing, notCatching. Catching fish was awelcome corrolary to the day onstream, but the purpose was fishing. Ineverheard of 50 or 100-fishdays until Wulff (an ad man from New York) started touting "Fish forFun"(what were we doingbefore??). Then Gingrich suggested using a golf counter to keep trackofhow many fish one landed. Sothe cult was born.It's not really that hard to walk away from a river, or just sitandwatch the evening rise, afteryou have caught (and perhaps released) your personal limit. When I gotoone particular stream, Ialways say to myself, "I'll keep anything over 14 inches, and quitafter 5fish landed." This works canmake this last for many hours. Best regards,Reed eestlow@srminc.com wrote: To the List: As the list is relatively quiet, I'll jump in here. With all due respect to Reed, I do not understand his post. In hissecondparagraph I believe he says he concurs (essentially agrees) withCatch &Release. Then he goes on to state a fairly anti- C&R position. Am Imissingsomething? Other statements are confusing, too. For instance, theconceptsof slot limits and trophy sections are valid. But how can onecooperatewith a slot limit or trophy section without releasing fish? once.(Iwas not aware that C&R was invention of the fishing businesscommunity.)Onthe other hand, the remarks about C&R equating to various forms ofanimalcruelty are thought provoking, to say the least. I'm from Minnesota,wherenorthern pike and walleye are co-kings, so this is one of the placeswherePETA chose to run Ms. McCartney's commentary. Needless to say, itdidnotplay well here. The biggest problem with that ad was that itanthropomorphized fish. That is to say, it projected human qualitiesonananimal with a very different nervous system, to say nothing of onewith avery different psyche. I have few answers, but would request that we all be clear aboutstatingthe facts and opinions which we debate. Best regards,-Ed Estlow from rmoon@ida.net Wed Aug 11 19:29:01 1999 0000 Subject: Re: Farlow rod taper? Jan My catalog shows a 7' 2 3/4 oz 2/2 for a WF7and8'4 oz 2/2 WF7 in addition to the five you listedRalph I might add that they sold for $90 or 2/$165 from swilson1@WHC.NET Wed Aug 11 21:53:32 1999 drodgers@ddaccess.net,Rodmakers list Subject: Re: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) There was a recent blurb in Fly Fisherman referring to a study ofmortality of striped bass after catch and release. I don't have thenumbers handy, but they showed an unbelievably high mortality. I readthis at the bookstore, so not only am I missing numbers, I can't give asource--someone might look this up and comment on numbers andreliability. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Aug 11 23:58:05 1999 Subject: Re: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) Dan,Here in Indiana we have a great run of summer run steelhead. I wentfishing after this) turned belly up when I got it to the net. I don't kill many fish and this is why I don't fish the summer runs as they are to easily killed even after a short fight. Now there is a guide who is on the MuskegonRiver in Michigan who will give you all sorts of lectures about the (mis)handling of the fish on his home river who thinks nothing of taking his clients down here for the SRSH and then will brag about catching and releasing (killing) upwards to 17 fish a day. I like that you have the ethics to quit after you catch your two fish. If only this guide would do the same after say onefish per client.Bret from anglport@con2.com Thu Aug 12 11:38:47 1999 Subject: Re: Farlow rod taper? Ralph,Remember when that was a fair price for cane? I recall I balked atpaying$125 for a Scottie.Ah well,Art At 06:16 PM 8/11/99 -0600, Ralph W Moon wrote:Jan My catalog shows a 7' 2 3/4 oz 2/2 for a WF7and8'4 oz 2/2 WF7 in addition to the five you listedRalph I might add that they sold for $90 or 2/$165 from bdcreek@crosswinds.net Thu Aug 12 14:50:39 1999 (envelope- from bdcreek@crosswinds.net) Subject: C&R Mortality I saw that story. They did no control group, and left the fish they caughtina tank rather than returning them to anything like a normal habitat. Hell,I'd die too.Sloppy science is no basis for a story in a national magazine. Brian There was a recent blurb in Fly Fisherman referring to a study ofmortality of striped bass after catch and release. I don't have thenumbers handy, but they showed an unbelievably high mortality. I readthis at the bookstore, so not only am I missing numbers, I can't give asource--someone might look this up and comment on numbers andreliability. from Turbotrk@aol.com Thu Aug 12 19:37:01 1999 Subject: Re: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Hey I have to jump in on this one. At the North Fork of the White there is a hatchery. They have a stream that all the released water from thehatchery is released. It has a limitation of handicapped fisherpeople and chilidren under 16 only. Sounds great and looks good. The number of fish and sizeis unequeled anywhere. 2 to 5 pounders are visible up and down the stream. The only hitch is it is catch and realease only. Every time I take my son there, I see dead fish. Lots of dead fish. Overplayed, deep hooks, whatever. They are killing big fish for no reason. I do not profess to know the answers, but this is a huge waste. my 2cents stuart miller from chris@artistree.com Thu Aug 12 21:59:33 1999 Subject: Re: rod capacity (Off Topic - Catch And Release) Sounds like the problem here is that they are "hatchery fish." Regards,Chris Wohlford Turbotrk@aol.com wrote: Hey I have to jump in on this one. At the North Fork of the White there isahatchery. They have a stream that all the released water from thehatcheryis released. It has a limitation of handicapped fisherpeople andchilidrenunder 16 only. Sounds great and looks good. The number of fish and sizeisunequeled anywhere. 2 to 5 pounders are visible up and down thestream.The only hitch is it is catch and realease only. Every time I take my sonthere, I see dead fish. Lots of dead fish. Overplayed, deep hooks,whatever. They are killing big fish for no reason. I do not profess to know the answers, but this is a huge waste. my 2cents stuart miller from jik@foxinternet.net Fri Aug 13 02:26:25 1999 Subject: plane forms I am unsure exactly wether or not 1 plane form can be used for alltapers or if they are specifically tailored for a certain taper. Also, from reading the Garrison book I gather that tapers are anything butstraight. How do you work that out in what appears to be a straightplane form? Does tightening the bolts at different levels bend the formsufficiently to get the taper right? Course if the answer to the first question is they are tailor designed,the rest do not apply. Also, has anyone built a spinning rod with bamboo? I was thinking aboutthat since I do both and I have to buy 3 culms anyway. Seems thatinstead of the line weight all I would need to do is figure the tipimpact for whatever weight I like to put on my line +/- a bobber.However I am not sure of what the handgrip design is like...seems to methat those rods have some sort of balance. Has anyone succesfully builtone? Is there any reason it would not work? from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Fri Aug 13 07:58:30 1999 Subject: plane forms JIK,It depends on the construction of your Planning Form. A two piece steelor wood form using the push-pull system should be good for most tapers.It depends on how fine you get at the tip end. Some people make woodenforms that are set for only one taper. That is their choice. They savethe form so they can duplicate the taper later on. Yes, the form bends slightly by use of the push-pull bolts. There are some spinning rod tapers in the Rodmakers archives. I knowbecause I have saved them to my hard disk for future use. I have abamboo spinning rod that my dad gave me in the late 50's or early 60's.It needs some repair and I plan to do that this winter. It has a longcork grip with two slide bands so the reel can be placed anywhere on thegrip for comfort and to create the proper balance. Hope this helpsDick Fuhrman JI>I am unsure exactly wether or not 1 plane form can be used for allJI>tapers or if they are specifically tailored for a certain taper. Also,JI> from reading the Garrison book I gather that tapers are anything butJI>straight. How do you work that out in what appears to be a straightJI>plane form? Does tightening the bolts at different levels bend the formJI>sufficiently to get the taper right? JI>Course if the answer to the first question is they are tailor designed,JI>the rest do not apply. JI>Also, has anyone built a spinning rod with bamboo? I was thinkingaboutJI>that since I do both and I have to buy 3 culms anyway. Seems thatJI>instead of the line weight all I would need to do is figure the tipJI>impact for whatever weight I like to put on my line +/- a bobber.JI>However I am not sure of what the handgrip design is like...seems to meJI>that those rods have some sort of balance. Has anyone succesfully builtJI>one? Is there any reason it would not work? from eestlow@srminc.com Fri Aug 13 08:58:15 1999 Subject: Re: plane forms 1999) at 08/13/9908:52:42 AM Richard Tyree has also made spinning/bait casting rods of split cane. Youmight try him. I haven't heard from him in a while but I think he's lurkingwhile focusing on other things.Best regards,-Ed dickfuhrman@rheemote.c Sent by: cc:owner-rodmakers@wugate Subject: plane forms.wustl.edu 08/13/99 07:26 AMPlease respond todickfuhrman JIK,It depends on the construction of your Planning Form. A two piece steelor wood form using the push-pull system should be good for most tapers.It depends on how fine you get at the tip end. Some people make woodenforms that are set for only one taper. That is their choice. They savethe form so they can duplicate the taper later on. Yes, the form bends slightly by use of the push-pull bolts. There are some spinning rod tapers in the Rodmakers archives. I knowbecause I have saved them to my hard disk for future use. I have abamboo spinning rod that my dad gave me in the late 50's or early 60's.It needs some repair and I plan to do that this winter. It has a longcork grip with two slide bands so the reel can be placed anywhere on thegrip for comfort and to create the proper balance. Hope this helpsDick Fuhrman JI>I am unsure exactly wether or not 1 plane form can be used for allJI>tapers or if they are specifically tailored for a certain taper. Also,JI> from reading the Garrison book I gather that tapers are anything butJI>straight. How do you work that out in what appears to be a straightJI>plane form? Does tightening the bolts at different levels bend the formJI>sufficiently to get the taper right? JI>Course if the answer to the first question is they are tailor designed,JI>the rest do not apply. JI>Also, has anyone built a spinning rod with bamboo? I was thinkingaboutJI>that since I do both and I have to buy 3 culms anyway. Seems thatJI>instead of the line weight all I would need to do is figure the tipJI>impact for whatever weight I like to put on my line +/- a bobber.JI>However I am not sure of what the handgrip design is like...seems to meJI>that those rods have some sort of balance. Has anyone succesfully builtJI>one? Is there any reason it would not work? from Fishinstix@aol.com Fri Aug 13 09:22:01 1999 Subject: Fwd: Fw: [Fwd: this blew my mind] boundary="part1_76d03967.24e583c6_boundary" --part1_76d03967.24e583c6_boundary --part1_76d03967.24e583c6_boundary Full-name: MMills1189 Subject: Fwd: Fw: [Fwd: this blew my mind] boundary="part2_76d03967.24e47543_boundary" --part2_76d03967.24e47543_boundary --part2_76d03967.24e47543_boundary Full-name: DippyDD29 Subject: Fwd: Fw: [Fwd: this blew my mind] tmp101@hotmail.com, jrock@pgh.net pixieblue4 boundary="part3_76d03967.24e3879f_boundary" --part3_76d03967.24e3879f_boundary --part3_76d03967.24e3879f_boundary Full-name: JQIMU Subject: Fwd: Fw: [Fwd: this blew my mind] boundary="part4_76d03967.24e34c81_boundary" --part4_76d03967.24e34c81_boundary --part4_76d03967.24e34c81_boundary Full-name: Weezer1950 Subject: Fwd: Fw: [Fwd: this blew my mind] JINBUD@aol.com,Jrc448@aol.com, JQIMU@aol.com, LCoviello1@aol.com,Rausch@scsu.ctstateu.edu boundary="part5_76d03967.24e21b2a_boundary" --part5_76d03967.24e21b2a_boundary --part5_76d03967.24e21b2a_boundary Full-name: Violets 08 Subject: Fwd: Fw: [Fwd: this blew my mind] MIKEJW6699@aol.com, Nina804@aol.com, TStufflebe@aol.com,TonyD62246@aol.com, triciaplumley@yahoo.com, Vibgyor2@aol.com,Weezer1950@aol.com boundary="part6_76d03967.24e20db4_boundary" --part6_76d03967.24e20db4_boundary this came pretty close to the truth for me,,,,,very creepy --part6_76d03967.24e20db4_boundary Full-name: LLdoveman Subject: Fwd: Fw: [Fwd: this blew my mind] boundary="part7_76d03967.24e20563_boundary" --part7_76d03967.24e20563_boundary --part7_76d03967.24e20563_boundary Full-name: Patty355 Subject: Fwd: Fw: [Fwd: this blew my mind] boundary="part8_76d03967.24e1ad17_boundary" --part8_76d03967.24e1ad17_boundary try this --part8_76d03967.24e1ad17_boundary Full-name: Andive Subject: Fwd: Fw: [Fwd: this blew my mind] Winebuff99@aol.com boundary="part9_76d03967.24e1a716_boundary" --part9_76d03967.24e1a716_boundary