from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Wed Sep 1 00:47:55 1999 (5.5.2448.0) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: 3/4 weight Leroy,my first rod was a Wayne Cattanach 7', two piece #4 and is a reallynice rod. Tony Young recommended it to me as a good first rod. Great idea.The action is really crisp and, dare I say it, some of my graphite wavingfriends actually like it as well. Hope this helps. Regards Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: 3/4 weight List Members looking for a recommendation, want to build a 7-71/2' 3 or 4weight to fish smaller creeks, like faster action rods no sloooow rods.Whatwould you recommend? Thanks in advance, Leroy................... from anglport@con2.com Wed Sep 1 05:07:04 1999 Subject: Re: 3/4 weight Leroy,Got a Sir D?Art At 09:53 PM 08/31/1999 -0700, leroy teeple wrote:List Members looking for a recommendation, want to build a 7-71/2' 3or4 weight to fish smaller creeks, like faster action rods no sloooow rods.What would you recommend? Thanks in advance, Leroy................... from saltwein@swbell.net Wed Sep 1 06:22:23 1999 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7)with ESMTP id for Subject: Re: Driggs River Tony, The Perfectionist is going to be my next rod. I am going to take the Driggsandthe Sir D out this weekend to see which is my favorite taper. My wife evenmade ahalfway decent cast with the Driggs, and she does not fish. This couldbecome myfavorite taper. It is not as crisp as the Sir D, but it is effortless to cast. I do not dip my rods but use eight coats of tung oil and then three coats ofacarnauba wax. I have read that the carnauba wax provides more waterprotectionthan dipped finishes. I am anxious to try similar tapers at SRG to see if there is anyappreciabledifference in the feel of two finishes, dipped or a rubbed. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Tony Spezio wrote: How does the Driggs River compare to the Profecnist. Is the Driggs afasterrod. I have heard good about rods. I guess I will have to make one of each.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com.Steve, Tell me more about this wax you are putting on your rods. Ray Gould wrote: Hi Steve,I took a look at the Paul Young Driggs River and compared it to his Para14which also for a 5wt. It looks to me as though the Driggs is a fairlyfastaction rod and should cast nicely. It has a little dip in the tip sectiontaper before the ferrule and another dip in the taper ahead of thehandleand has a rise of 0.280". The para 14 looks like a slower action to mewitha fast rise in the tip section but a slow rise in the butt section.Ray from tom@cet-inc.com Wed Sep 1 07:01:11 1999 "Rod Makers" Subject: Re: PA Gathering Art,Too late to be on the formal program (it was mailed today), but I think youjust volunteered to do a demo. Looking forward to seeing you again nextweek.TomBTW, if anyone is planning to attend and has not registered, please contactme. We need an accurate count for meals by the beginning of next week. Wehave 53 registered to date. Also let Tom Smithwick or myself know ifyou'recoming to the chili dinner on Friday evening (this would be a great time tosmoke cigars). ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: PA Gathering Ya know.....if anybody wants it and nobody's doing it, I'll bring mystuff.I love the system. My blades may not be as sharp as some other guys' butthey're a damn-sight sharper than they ever were before. All it entails isa piece of plate glass and some sandpaper.Art At 04:37 PM 08/31/1999 -0700, Darrell Lee wrote:Bob, I'll see you at the gathering... looking forward to meeting livelistmembers... I'll see if I have room in my luggage to bring a bottle of Cognac... I'mintoo! Is anybody going to demo the scary sharp sharpening technique??? I'llvolunteer my plane irons... Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com -----Original Message-----From: Robert Venneri Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Tuesday, August 31, 1999 3:09 PMSubject: Re: PA Gathering Joe C. Byrd wrote: Those of you who are going to the PA gathering, and wouldlike to share a fine imported cigar and some goodconversation email me at jcbyrd@direct- pest.com and let meknow. I will be bringing my portable humidor chocked fullof stogies. Maybe we can get together share a stogie andtalk rodbuilding. JoeJoeMy wife will kill me if she knows Im smoking cigars. Count me in. Best regardsBob VVenneri's21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882http://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index.html from tom@cet-inc.com Wed Sep 1 07:06:11 1999 Subject: Re: PA gathering Bill,Program and maps were mailed to registrants today. Schedule from thatprogram follows. See you next week.Tom Program HighlightsSaturday8 AM - 10 AM (The Meadow Lodge)Welcome and Introductions"Learning to Build Rods with Vince Marinaro" - Bill Harms"Choosing a Line for Your Cane Rod" - Gary Dabrowski10 AM - 12 NoonCasting and Vendors12 Noon - Luncheon Buffet (Fairfield Hall)1:15 PM - 2:30 PM (The Meadow Lodge)"Router Powered Beveler and Mill Demo" - Alan Medved"Building Feruled Leaders" - Chris Bogart & Tom SmithwickSunday8 AM - 10 AM (The Meadow Lodge)"Rod Building Component Technology" - Ed Calhoun"Adhesives Update" - John Zimny10 AM - 12 NoonCasting and Vendors12 Noon - Luncheon Buffet (Fairfield Hall)1:15 PM - 2:30 PM (The Meadow Lodge)"Building a two-strip quad" - Tom Smithwick"Door Prize Drawing" ----- Original Message ----- Subject: PA gathering Is there any way of getting a schedule of events planned for each day?Thank you in advance,Bill Felter from channer@hubwest.com Wed Sep 1 07:07:12 1999 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A780EC5012E; Wed, 01 Sep 1999 06:09:36 MST Subject: RE: REC Uniferrules -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu WilliamR.Sent: August 31, 1999 6:10 AM Subject: REC Uniferrules Last night I had my first experience fitting an REC Uniferrule. Thecompanysuggests that because of improved tolerances in manufacture, only halfanhour is needed to complete the fitting. Don't believe it! I have spent anhour and a half already with no end in sight. The first ten minutes wererequired to take too much off the male and the remainder of the time hasbeen spent trying to correct my error. The ferrule has seemed toeffectively resist the usual suggestions for expanding the male orcompressing the female. I have tried putting lead shot in the male andusing a hammer and punch to cause the male to bulge. Repeated attemptshavecaused some swelling but when the lead is removed the ferrule returns tooriginal size. Perhaps I am not attacking it with sufficient aggression,but the lead shot had lumped together to the point that it had to bedrilledout. Would sand be a better choice? I have also put the female in aJacobschuck and screwed it down. Again, when the pressure is released itseems togo back to original dimension. I welcome your suggestions. If you are fitting a Uniferrule for the firsttime, be careful. I was fitting by hand with 600 grit sandpaper and ittookno time to go too far. This particular set at least came from REC veryclose to final dimensions. Bill Lamberson Bill;You may have to call Dan at REC and see if you can get another maleferrule, it should be cheaper than a new set and a lot easier than tryingto tighten the female. Or ask Dave LeClair if he will plate it for you soyou can start over. Just some thoughtsJohn from channer@hubwest.com Wed Sep 1 07:10:28 1999 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A847ED0012E; Wed, 01 Sep 1999 06:12:55 MST Subject: Re: 3/4 weight At 09:53 PM 08/31/1999 -0700, leroy teeple wrote:List Members looking for a recommendation, want to build a 7-71/2' 3or4 weight to fish smaller creeks, like faster action rods no sloooow rods.What would you recommend? Thanks in advance, Leroy................... Paul Young Perfectionist 7'6" 4wt., but you don't have to limit it's use tosmall creeks, I use mine on the San Juan all the time.John from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Wed Sep 1 07:44:39 1999 Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:44:30 -0400 Tony Spezio Subject: RE: Driggs River I passed through Michigan's Upper Peninsula this summer and drove acrosssomething called the Driggs River. With the family, didn't have time tostop. I wondered if this was PHY's beloved Driggs. If so, it was hard tosee the attraction from where it crosses the road: it's an unshaded ditch alittle too wide to jump across filled with sluggish-looking green water.Maybe it changes away from the road. from where I sat, it looked morelikely to hold carp than trout. But appearances are deceiving. I could seewhy you'd want a "magic" wand to fish it, though. -----Original Message-----From: Tony Young [SMTP:tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au]Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 1999 11:44 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Driggs River As it happens I can comment on this.The Driggs is a bit faster and more of a wand. It casts in a simmilarfashion but feels like it's have a job handeling larger fish though I knowit will. The Perfectionist has more guts and casts a heavier line. It alsooutcasts the Driggs for distance and will cast hevier flies. Personaly I find it hard to understand how anybody can feel complete asaperson without one of each. ;-) Tony On Tue, 31 Aug 1999, Tony Spezio wrote: How does the Driggs River compare to the Profecnist. Is the Driggs afasterrod. I have heard good about rods. I guess I will have to make one ofeach.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com.Steve, Tell me more about this wax you are putting on your rods. Ray Gould wrote: Hi Steve,I took a look at the Paul Young Driggs River and compared it to hisPara 14which also for a 5wt. It looks to me as though the Driggs is a fairlyfastaction rod and should cast nicely. It has a little dip in the tipsectiontaper before the ferrule and another dip in the taper ahead of thehandleand has a rise of 0.280". The para 14 looks like a slower action to mewitha fast rise in the tip section but a slow rise in the butt section.Ray /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from Canerods@aol.com Wed Sep 1 08:18:03 1999 Subject: Re: REC Uniferrules In a message dated 8/31/99 8:58:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mrj@aa.net writes: Martin and all, I've used a 3/8" drill chuck successfully to adjust ferrules. The stainless steel South Bend ferrules requires the most torque of all styles that I've worked with and are a bitch to adjust. I've also adjusted the male slide on a few rods where only one tip ferrule was loose. My big old Sears drill chuck has a small void space behind the jaws and so you can insert the female ferrule into the chuck without crimping the welt- do test this before using any drill chuck!! Don Burns from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Sep 1 09:10:06 1999 Wed, 1 Sep 1999 22:13:26 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: RE: Driggs River from what I've been told you did indeed drive over the Driggs. Thanks forexploding yet another day dream fantasy of mine, arh well, that's"progress" I guess. Maybe it's a lot nicer up higher? Tony On Wed, 1 Sep 1999, Seth Steinzor wrote: I passed through Michigan's Upper Peninsula this summer and droveacrosssomething called the Driggs River. With the family, didn't have time tostop. I wondered if this was PHY's beloved Driggs. If so, it was hard tosee the attraction from where it crosses the road: it's an unshaded ditchalittle too wide to jump across filled with sluggish-looking green water.Maybe it changes away from the road. from where I sat, it looked morelikely to hold carp than trout. But appearances are deceiving. I could seewhy you'd want a "magic" wand to fish it, though. -----Original Message-----From: Tony Young [SMTP:tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au]Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 1999 11:44 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Driggs River As it happens I can comment on this.The Driggs is a bit faster and more of a wand. It casts in a simmilarfashion but feels like it's have a job handeling larger fish though Iknowit will. The Perfectionist has more guts and casts a heavier line. Italsooutcasts the Driggs for distance and will cast hevier flies. Personaly I find it hard to understand how anybody can feel completeas aperson without one of each. ;-) Tony On Tue, 31 Aug 1999, Tony Spezio wrote: How does the Driggs River compare to the Profecnist. Is the Driggs afasterrod. I have heard good about rods. I guess I will have to make one ofeach.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com.Steve, Tell me more about this wax you are putting on your rods. Ray Gould wrote: Hi Steve,I took a look at the Paul Young Driggs River and compared it to hisPara 14which also for a 5wt. It looks to me as though the Driggs is a fairlyfastaction rod and should cast nicely. It has a little dip in the tipsectiontaper before the ferrule and another dip in the taper ahead of thehandleand has a rise of 0.280". The para 14 looks like a slower action tomewitha fast rise in the tip section but a slow rise in the butt section.Ray /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from darrelll@earthlink.net Wed Sep 1 09:46:49 1999 Subject: Re: Driggs River Many areas on the states have been in drought conditions so perhaps thewater was extremely low at the time? darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Driggs River from what I've been told you did indeed drive over the Driggs. Thanks forexploding yet another day dream fantasy of mine, arh well, that's"progress" I guess. Maybe it's a lot nicer up higher? Tony On Wed, 1 Sep 1999, Seth Steinzor wrote: I passed through Michigan's Upper Peninsula this summer and droveacrosssomething called the Driggs River. With the family, didn't have time tostop. I wondered if this was PHY's beloved Driggs. If so, it was hardtosee the attraction from where it crosses the road: it's an unshadedditchalittle too wide to jump across filled with sluggish-looking green water.Maybe it changes away from the road. from where I sat, it looked morelikely to hold carp than trout. But appearances are deceiving. I couldseewhy you'd want a "magic" wand to fish it, though. -----Original Message-----From: Tony Young [SMTP:tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au]Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 1999 11:44 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Driggs River As it happens I can comment on this.The Driggs is a bit faster and more of a wand. It casts in a simmilarfashion but feels like it's have a job handeling larger fish though Iknowit will. The Perfectionist has more guts and casts a heavier line. Italsooutcasts the Driggs for distance and will cast hevier flies. Personaly I find it hard to understand how anybody can feel completeasaperson without one of each. ;-) Tony On Tue, 31 Aug 1999, Tony Spezio wrote: How does the Driggs River compare to the Profecnist. Is the Driggs afasterrod. I have heard good about rods. I guess I will have to make one ofeach.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com.Steve, Tell me more about this wax you are putting on your rods. Ray Gould wrote: Hi Steve,I took a look at the Paul Young Driggs River and compared it to hisPara 14which also for a 5wt. It looks to me as though the Driggs is afairlyfastaction rod and should cast nicely. It has a little dip in the tipsectiontaper before the ferrule and another dip in the taper ahead of thehandleand has a rise of 0.280". The para 14 looks like a slower action tomewitha fast rise in the tip section but a slow rise in the butt section.Ray /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb?A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb?A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from darrelll@earthlink.net Wed Sep 1 10:10:45 1999 Subject: Re: PA gathering Thanks tom, I've also posted the info you sent me on my Calendar of Events forum. Idon't know about you, but I get dozens of messages a day and in a month, Ican't find the old message. If other attendees want an easy way to find itlke me, here's the URL to my forum board with the info. Thanks again tom,see you there... http://server2.ezboard.com:8080/fanglerscollectiblescollectingfishingrodbuildingannouncementseventscalendar Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: PA gathering DarrellHere is the announcement. You should have gotten one in early Augustwhenwespoke. You can mail payment or pay at the door. I'll add you to the list.And I'll mail you a program.Tom 1999 Mid-Atlantic Rodmaker's GatheringBoiling Springs, PA.September 11- 12, 1999 This gathering, traditionally (for the past four years) held in Roscoe, NYthe weekend after Labor Day is being held in Pennsylvania this year topromote the new Pennsylvania Fly Fishing Museum Association. BoilingSpringsis just south of Carlisle, PA, accessible by Route 81 and the PA Turnpike. The gathering will be held at the Allenberry Resort Inn & Playhouse ontheYellow Breeches Creek. Allenberry has recently donated space for the newPAFly Fishing Museum, and displays are planned to be finished by theSeptemberGathering. The meeting room at the Inn will handle up to 100 attendants.Avendor area will offer an opportunity to stock-up on supplies, tools andcomponents. Lunches will be provided on both Saturday and Sunday andareincluded in the registration fee. Attendees have at least two options for lodging. There is lodgingavailableat Allenberry for approximately $120, double occupancy. Check theResort'swebsite @ www.allenberry.com or call toll free 800-324-8716. TheSleep Innin nearby Carlisle (4 miles from Boiling Springs) has reserved 30 roomsforthe gathering @ $52 single or double occupancy, including a continentalbreakfast. Call the Sleep Inn before August 10th @ 717-249-8863 andmention"Rodmakers Gathering" to get the special rate. The Sleep Inn is a newhotelalong Rt. 81. The Sleep Inn property borders the Heritage Trout water onthefamous Letort limestoner. The Marinaro Meadow, owned by the Cumberland Valley Chapter of TroutUnlimited, across the Letort from the Sleep Inn, is available for thetraditional informal "chili pot" picnic on Friday evening, Sept. 10th.Cumberland Valley TU will be holding their annual "Last Supper" picnic inthe Meadow on Saturday evening the 11th. Gathering registrants will beinvited to attend the "Last Supper" for a small donation. This year's gathering is about 1 mile away from where the first PAGatheringwas held in 1990. There has been a lot of interest in returning to PA.Withall the excellent fishing opportunities in the Cumberland Valley and theexcellent meeting facilities, we anticipate a very successful gathering.Forinformation on fishing in PA check the PA Fish and Boat main page athttp://www.state.pa.us/PA_Exec/Fish_Boat/. Registration for the Gathering is $40, which includes lunches. Send acheckmade payable to the "PA Fly Fishing Museum Association", to 1240 NorthMountain Rd., Harrisburg, PA 17112. Write "Gathering" in the memo spaceonyour check. Include your name, address, phone number, and email addressifavailable. For additional information on the gathering or to reserve avendor space, please contact: Tom Whittle, weekdays @ 717-541-0622 orevenings and weekends @ 717-652-6545 or email tom@cet-inc.com. ----- Original Message -----From: Darrell Lee Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 1999 9:33 AMSubject: Re: PA gathering Tom Here's my mailing info Darrell LeeP.O. Box 4111Hollywood, CA 90078 I'm definitely going so if you could mail me the info now that would beappreciated. How much does it cost? Should I send payment or pay atthedoor? Thanks Darrell from bob@downandacross.com Wed Sep 1 11:39:08 1999 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: silk lines I wondered if anyone has come across an extra 5-6 weight silk line that they might be willing to part with. I would love to try one on my Cross Sylph. Please reply privately if you do. Glad to be back on the list after a long while. I still have yet to get my forms. My machinist is stringing me along. Best regards. Thanks,Bob from johanyga@online.no Wed Sep 1 13:02:27 1999 Wed, 1 Sep 1999 20:01:01 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: SV: Driggs River Tony,I don't feel complete as I haven't built The Perfectionist yet. However,it will be my next rod, I think. A year ago you inquired about my versionof The Martha Marie compared to The Driggs - have you built The M.M.? Ifyou have - what's your opinion about this rod ?Johan ----------Fra: Tony Young Til: Tony Spezio Kopi: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduEmne: Re: Driggs River As it happens I can comment on this.The Driggs is a bit faster and more of a wand. It casts in a simmilarfashion but feels like it's have a job handeling larger fish though Iknowit will. The Perfectionist has more guts and casts a heavier line. Italsooutcasts the Driggs for distance and will cast hevier flies. Personaly I find it hard to understand how anybody can feel complete asaperson without one of each. ;-) Tony On Tue, 31 Aug 1999, Tony Spezio wrote: How does the Driggs River compare to the Profecnist. Is the Driggs afasterrod. I have heard good about rods. I guess I will have to make one ofeach.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com.Steve, Tell me more about this wax you are putting on your rods. Ray Gould wrote: Hi Steve,I took a look at the Paul Young Driggs River and compared it to hisPara 14which also for a 5wt. It looks to me as though the Driggs is a fairlyfastaction rod and should cast nicely. It has a little dip in the tipsectiontaper before the ferrule and another dip in the taper ahead of thehandleand has a rise of 0.280". The para 14 looks like a slower action tome witha fast rise in the tip section but a slow rise in the butt section.Ray /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from LambersonW@missouri.edu Wed Sep 1 13:12:06 1999 (5.5.2448.0) "Lamberson, William R." Subject: RE: REC Uniferrules Thanks to each of you for your suggestions on tightening the ferrule. Ihave been successful in slightly expanding the male. I filled the lowerpart of it with damp sand, inserted a brass punch about the same diameterasthe ferrule, placed the ferrule on my blacksmith's anvil and gave the puncha hearty tap with a 3 pound blacksmith's hammer. There was no visiblechange in the ferrule, but it tightened the ferrule to the point that itcould only be seated with great effort. A little hand work with 1500 gritpaper now has it seating very nicely. It was my preference to work on themale because it could be more easily replaced than the female. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: REC Uniferrules Bill,I'd imagine REC is using 18% ns rod so they are a bit harder to dress eventhough they're close to final dimensions. Mine are made with this rod within one or two thou and I start dressing with 200 grit until the malealmost fits then reduce to 400 grit etc. This way as you get closer tofinished it's harder to remove metal. Tony On Tue, 31 Aug 1999, Lamberson, William R. wrote: Last night I had my first experience fitting an REC Uniferrule. Thecompanysuggests that because of improved tolerances in manufacture, only halfanhour is needed to complete the fitting. Don't believe it! I have spentanhour and a half already with no end in sight. The first ten minutes wererequired to take too much off the male and the remainder of the time hasbeen spent trying to correct my error. The ferrule has seemed toeffectively resist the usual suggestions for expanding the male orcompressing the female. I have tried putting lead shot in the male andusing a hammer and punch to cause the male to bulge. Repeated attemptshavecaused some swelling but when the lead is removed the ferrule returnstooriginal size. Perhaps I am not attacking it with sufficient aggression,but the lead shot had lumped together to the point that it had to bedrilledout. Would sand be a better choice? I have also put the female in aJacobschuck and screwed it down. Again, when the pressure is released itseemstogo back to original dimension. I welcome your suggestions. If you are fitting a Uniferrule for the firsttime, be careful. I was fitting by hand with 600 grit sandpaper and ittookno time to go too far. This particular set at least came from REC veryclose to final dimensions. Bill Lamberson /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Sep 1 13:22:10 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Wed, 1 Sep 1999 13:22:04 -0500 Subject: Re: REC Uniferrules Bill,Just curious -- Are you fitting ferrules before gluing them to the rodsections? I've never had much luck that way. Harry "Lamberson, William R." wrote: Thanks to each of you for your suggestions on tightening the ferrule. Ihave been successful in slightly expanding the male. I filled the lowerpart of it with damp sand, inserted a brass punch about the samediameter asthe ferrule, placed the ferrule on my blacksmith's anvil and gave thepuncha hearty tap with a 3 pound blacksmith's hammer. There was no visiblechange in the ferrule, but it tightened the ferrule to the point that itcould only be seated with great effort. A little hand work with 1500gritpaper now has it seating very nicely. It was my preference to work onthemale because it could be more easily replaced than the female. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 1999 9:51 AM Cc: 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'Subject: Re: REC Uniferrules Bill,I'd imagine REC is using 18% ns rod so they are a bit harder to dress eventhough they're close to final dimensions. Mine are made with this rodwithin one or two thou and I start dressing with 200 grit until the malealmost fits then reduce to 400 grit etc. This way as you get closer tofinished it's harder to remove metal. Tony On Tue, 31 Aug 1999, Lamberson, William R. wrote: Last night I had my first experience fitting an REC Uniferrule. Thecompanysuggests that because of improved tolerances in manufacture, only halfanhour is needed to complete the fitting. Don't believe it! I have spentanhour and a half already with no end in sight. The first ten minuteswererequired to take too much off the male and the remainder of the timehasbeen spent trying to correct my error. The ferrule has seemed toeffectively resist the usual suggestions for expanding the male orcompressing the female. I have tried putting lead shot in the male andusing a hammer and punch to cause the male to bulge. Repeatedattemptshavecaused some swelling but when the lead is removed the ferrule returnstooriginal size. Perhaps I am not attacking it with sufficient aggression,but the lead shot had lumped together to the point that it had to bedrilledout. Would sand be a better choice? I have also put the female in aJacobschuck and screwed it down. Again, when the pressure is released itseemstogo back to original dimension. I welcome your suggestions. If you are fitting a Uniferrule for thefirsttime, be careful. I was fitting by hand with 600 grit sandpaper and ittookno time to go too far. This particular set at least came from REC veryclose to final dimensions. Bill Lamberson /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb?A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from maxs@geocities.co.jp Wed Sep 1 17:02:31 1999 bysv01.geocities.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W) with ESMTP id HAA11485; Thu, 2Sep 1999 07:02:26+0900 (JST) mail.geocities.co.jp(1.3G-GeocitiesJ-3.1) with SMTP id HAA02511; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 07:02:25+0900 (JST) Subject: RE: REC Uniferrules Martin and all, I've used a 3/8" drill chuck successfully to adjust ferrules. The stainless steel South Bend ferrules requires the most torque of allstyles that I've worked with and are a bitch to adjust. I've also adjusted the male slide on a few rods where only one tip ferrulewas loose. My big old Sears drill chuck has a small void space behind the jaws and soyou can insert the female ferrule into the chuck without crimping thewelt -do test this before using any drill chuck!! Don Burns Hello Don, I've never used REC uniferrules but turned exact the same style toUniferrules from NS stock.My lathe also has a scroll chuck which has a small void space on the chucksoit also could hold female ferrules at the welt side ferrule withoutcrimping. It's neat. BTW, as for adjusting loose match of male and female, my teacher oncetaughtme to usetwo small iron plates with a hole in between, the size of which is a littlebit smaller than female's OD.He told me the female ferrule could be shrinked a little bit by pressingsleeve part from several angles onthe vice without making it a triangle shape. It seems hard to press andmake it shrinked at the portion ofmoisture cap since it is turned out from solid. Max P.S. Don, Tatsutomi got a new job at Showa Univ. and still has desire tofish. We have a contact.His email address is tatsupro@senzoku.showa-u.ac.jp from miler257@gateway.net Wed Sep 1 18:13:35 1999 Subject: George Barnes Book boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEF4A5.CF73B340" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEF4A5.CF73B340 I have a copy of George Barnes' book on rodmaking that I would like to =sell if anyone is interested. Please contact me off list. Thanks, Ed =Miler. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEF4A5.CF73B340 I have a copy of George Barnes'book = rodmaking that I would like to sell if anyone is interested. Please = ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEF4A5.CF73B340-- from MasjC1@aol.com Wed Sep 1 19:47:55 1999 Subject: Re: 3/4 weight Leroy, Give the Sir "D" a shot it is the 7' 4wt on page 225 of Wayne's Book. I've built both 2 and 3 piece versions and like them a lot. The 3 pc. makes a great pack rod for those small streams in the Rocky Mountain Head Waters. Mark Cole from miler257@gateway.net Wed Sep 1 21:43:43 1999 Subject: George's book boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEF4C2.F8780300" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEF4C2.F8780300 To all those who responded to my offer to sell a copy of George's rod =building book I offer my sincerest apology. After hearing from my friend =Don Burns I examined the book closer and discovered that it is missing =several chapters, an apparent problem from its original publication. =Obviously I cannot foist this on any of the good people on the List. =Everyone I have dealt with in the past two plus years has treated me =more than fairly and I'm certain will do so in the future.Its =unfortunate to get stung on a deal but a lesson has been learned.Thanks again, Ed Miller. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEF4C2.F8780300 to = sell a copy of George's rod building book I offer my sincerest apology. = hearing from my friend Don Burns I examined the book closer and = publication. Obviously I cannot foist this on any of the good people on = List. Everyone I have dealt with in the past two plus years has treated = get stung on a deal but a lesson has been learned. Miller. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEF4C2.F8780300-- from saweiss@flash.net Wed Sep 1 23:46:46 1999 Subject: Re: 3/4 weight Mark,have you noticed a difference in casting the 3-piece Vs the 4- piece?Steve Leroy, Give the Sir "D" a shot it is the 7' 4wt on page 225 of Wayne's Book.I'vebuilt both 2 and 3 piece versions and like them a lot. The 3 pc. makes agreat pack rod for those small streams in the Rocky Mountain HeadWaters. Mark Cole from jfoster@gte.net Thu Sep 2 01:41:08 1999 Subject: archives Hi Group I've had several comments about getting to sections of the page...mainlythe archives..so you have this problem when you use the link on the homepage as well as when linking directly. ??jerry from eestlow@srminc.com Thu Sep 2 08:27:53 1999 Subject: Re: 3/4 weight 1999) at 09/02/9908:22:15 AM Steve and the List, Keep in mind that the "Sir D" is a slight modification of Wayne's taper - acouple of thousandths of an inch at stations 5, 10, and 15, I believe.Can't remember which direction. Apologies for the tease. Note also thatDarryl has a whole theory about tip tapers and tight loops. Again, I'd haveto dredge my files for that. Regarding the casting differences between the two and three piece, checkthe archives. I had this conversation with Jerry Snider several months ago.Can't remember what he said except that he liked both. I'll also check mypersonal archives and forward anything I find off-list. Best,-Ed "Steven Weiss" Sent by: cc:owner-rodmakers@wugate Subject: Re: 3/4 weight.wustl.edu 09/01/99 11:47 PMPlease respond tosaweiss Mark,have you noticed a difference in casting the 3-piece Vs the 4- piece?Steve Leroy, Give the Sir "D" a shot it is the 7' 4wt on page 225 of Wayne's Book.I'vebuilt both 2 and 3 piece versions and like them a lot. The 3 pc. makes agreat pack rod for those small streams in the Rocky Mountain HeadWaters. Mark Cole from Craig.Naldrett@ibm.net Thu Sep 2 11:25:12 1999 Thu, 2 Sep 1999 16:24:55 GMT Subject: Re: archives Jerry, I send a note about this problem awhile ago, another user said heused this Crosswinds outfit with no problems.I tried to sign up, theywant 2 user e- mail's, I only have one, so gave up the process, plus theCrosswind site is VERY slow.Also tried accesing Archives directly ..jfoster/rma.html, same result,accessed Tips, Software & Rodmakers sections through main page with noproblem a few minutes ago.Appreciate all the fine work you have done setting up & maintaining theRodmakers page, invaluable help!CheersCraig from darrelll@earthlink.net Thu Sep 2 12:45:11 1999 Subject: Hoagy Carmichael and "Stardust" boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01BEF530.34155080" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BEF530.34155080 Just bought a 1930's commemrative series of stamps at the post office =and it mentioned listening to Stardust by Hoagy Carmichael... Any =relation to the famous one that we know and respect so much... Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BEF530.34155080 Justbought a = commemrative series of stamps at the post office and it mentioned = Stardust by Hoagy Carmichael... Any relation to the famous one that we = respect so much... Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BEF530.34155080-- from brookie@frii.com Thu Sep 2 13:22:49 1999 Subject: Re: Hoagy Carmichael and "Stardust" At 10:44 AM 9/2/1999 -0700, you wrote:Just bought a 1930's commemrative series of stamps at the postofficeand it mentioned listening to Stardust by Hoagy Carmichael... Anyrelationto the famous one that we know and respect so much... Darrell (grin), you're going to date some of these chaps in a minute,you'll see ! and YES, I remember "Stardust", but I was a weebit of a thing ... maybe not even born yet *VBG* and I believe THE Hoagy C. was the father of the one thatwrote the book, but others in the cane business can confirmbetter than I. truely, the name Hoagy Carmichael is part of our heritage of musicin this country ! sue from cmj@post11.tele.dk Thu Sep 2 13:26:04 1999 wugate.wustl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA28709 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0200 Subject: Sv: Hoagy Carmichael and "Stardust" boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001D_01BEF582.04045920" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01BEF582.04045920 -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----Fra: Darrell Lee Til: Rod Makers Emne: Hoagy Carmichael and "Stardust" Just bought a 1930's commemrative series of stamps at the post =office and it mentioned listening to Stardust by Hoagy Carmichael... Any =relation to the famous one that we know and respect so much... Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com Darrell Stardust is the father, bamboo is the son regards, Carsten JorgensenDania Flyrods ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01BEF582.04045920 Rod Makers <RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= 2. september 1999 19:51Emne: Hoagy Carmichael "Stardust"Just = commemrative series of stamps at the post office and it mentioned = to Stardust by Hoagy Carmichael... Any relation to the famous one = know and respect so much... Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com Darrell Stardust is the father, bamboo= son regards, CarstenJorgensen Flyrods ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01BEF582.04045920-- from highlander@twave.net Thu Sep 2 13:54:53 1999 3.03.0018/1.abwg) with ESMTP -0400 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Hoagy Carmichael and "Stardust" Outside Magazine did a short story on Mr. Carmichael in their August issue. It mentions his father, who in addition to Stardust, wrote Georgia on MyMind. Short but interesting, good to see a rod maker get attention in a gerneralmarket publication. ----------From: Sue K. Subject: Re: Hoagy Carmichael and "Stardust"Date: Thursday, September 02, 1999 2:12 PM At 10:44 AM 9/2/1999 -0700, you wrote:Just bought a 1930's commemrative series of stamps at the postofficeand it mentioned listening to Stardust by Hoagy Carmichael... Anyrelationto the famous one that we know and respect so much... Darrell (grin), you're going to date some of these chaps in a minute,you'll see ! and YES, I remember "Stardust", but I was a weebit of a thing ... maybe not even born yet *VBG* and I believe THE Hoagy C. was the father of the one thatwrote the book, but others in the cane business can confirmbetter than I. truely, the name Hoagy Carmichael is part of our heritage of musicin this country ! sue from bhoy@inmind.com Thu Sep 2 14:11:48 1999 Subject: Re: Hoagy Carmichael and "Stardust" To see Hoagy Sr. in action rent "To Have and To Have Not" with Bogie andLauren Bacall. bill hoy At 10:44 AM 09/02/1999 -0700, Darrell Lee wrote:Just bought a 1930's commemrative series of stamps at the postofficeand it mentioned listening to Stardust by Hoagy Carmichael... Anyrelationto the famous one that we know and respect so much... Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Bill HoyBedford County Webmeister/PIOVA USAw.hoy@co.bedford.va.us(bhoy@inmind.com) from eestlow@srminc.com Thu Sep 2 14:12:48 1999 Subject: Re: Hoagy Carmichael and "Stardust" 1999) at 09/02/9902:07:10 PM Couldn't resist getting on this thread. Field & Stream magazine did a twoor three page spread on Hoagy the son (I don't think he's Junior, due to adifferent middle name or some such) many years ago - early or mid '80's. Ihave the issue at home. It was what originally brought me to rodmaking assomething mere mortals could accomplish. It also discusses how he metGarrison on a stream, and their conversation which led to hisapprenticeship and eventual receipt of Garrison's tooling when Garrisondied. Good info to have as background. I think of it as part of amateurrodmaking's provenance. Best regards,-Ed Estlow "K&H McNeill" Sent by: ,"Rodmakers" owner-rodmakers@wugate .wustl.edu cc:Subject: Re: Hoagy Carmichael and"Stardust" 09/02/99 01:48 PMPlease respond tohighlander Outside Magazine did a short story on Mr. Carmichael in their August issue. It mentions his father, who in addition to Stardust, wrote Georgia on MyMind. Short but interesting, good to see a rod maker get attention in a gerneralmarket publication. ----------From: Sue K. Subject: Re: Hoagy Carmichael and "Stardust"Date: Thursday, September 02, 1999 2:12 PM At 10:44 AM 9/2/1999 -0700, you wrote:Just bought a 1930's commemrative series of stamps at the postofficeand it mentioned listening to Stardust by Hoagy Carmichael... Anyrelationto the famous one that we know and respect so much... Darrell (grin), you're going to date some of these chaps in a minute,you'll see ! and YES, I remember "Stardust", but I was a weebit of a thing ... maybe not even born yet *VBG* and I believe THE Hoagy C. was the father of the one thatwrote the book, but others in the cane business can confirmbetter than I. truely, the name Hoagy Carmichael is part of our heritage of musicin this country ! sue from anglport@con2.com Thu Sep 2 16:03:31 1999 Subject: Re: Hoagy Carmichael and "Stardust" Darrell,Hoagy "B." Carmichael is named after his dad and Bix Beiderbeck(sp?), afantastic cornetist of the 20s and 30s who was friends with his dad andprobably the reason his father never got his law degee (or why it took solong to do it). Accordingly to Hoagy (fils), every time Dad got close tofinishing the courses, Bix showed up with another gig for them to do! Heapparently has Bix's mouthpiece for the cornet; got it from his dad afterBix died an early death -- from something to do with being "in the scene'if I recall -- associated with drugs or alcohol.ArtAnd Sue, don't forget "Skylark" and "Lazybones", a fisherman's song if everthere was one!!! At 10:44 AM 09/02/1999 -0700, Darrell Lee wrote:Just bought a 1930's commemrative series of stamps at the postofficeand it mentioned listening to Stardust by Hoagy Carmichael... Anyrelationto the famous one that we know and respect so much... Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com from brookie@frii.com Thu Sep 2 16:23:28 1999 Subject: Re: Hoagy Carmichael and "Stardust" And Sue, don't forget "Skylark" and "Lazybones", a fisherman's song if ever there was one!!! Not to prolong this off-topic thread, but these old songwriters andmelodies they wrote ARE favorite memories of mine. While I amnot quite old enough to have sat in a parlor and listened to thesesongs on a radio ( pre t.v. ), nor on a porch swing on a summernight, I DO remember my parents being in a good mood whenHoagy Carmichael's tunes were on, that and good old Glenn Miller.Now HIS stuff makes you want to get up and dance a lick or two ! *G*colorado over and out for now. from sshorb@ozip.net Thu Sep 2 20:05:29 1999 Subject: Cane and Epon I just finished splitting another culm for my next rod and it seem to bemuch limper or softer than the first one. The 1/4" strips bent sidewaysabout 20/30 deg during splitting, just before the nodes. Will it stiffenup after it's heat treated? By the way, the Bingham Epon Versamid iscomposed of 826 resin and 3140 curing agent and they recommend a 2 to 1mixture. Their units are set up for that ratio. The resin is about theconsistency of pancake syrup, maybe thinner. The Shell site says it'ssimilar to 828 but thinner.Skip from jik@foxinternet.net Thu Sep 2 20:20:25 1999 Subject: Re: archives you can get to the archive files by going to the url"crosswindshost/somethingorother/"~jfoster/ and following the links.you will have to look at the status bar in the browser to see theright url. Craig Naldrett writes:Jerry, I send a note about this problem awhile ago, another user said heused this Crosswinds outfit with no problems.I tried to sign up, theywant 2 user e-mail's, I only have one, so gave up the process, plus theCrosswind site is VERY slow.Also tried accesing Archives directly ..jfoster/rma.html, same result,accessed Tips, Software & Rodmakers sections through main page withnoproblem a few minutes ago.Appreciate all the fine work you have done setting up & maintaining theRodmakers page, invaluable help!CheersCraig from CAdams46@compuserve.com Thu Sep 2 21:25:20 1999 Subject: 10wt. fly pole Earlier I wrote asking if anyone knew of any suitable tapers for amuskie fly pole for a fellow that asked me to build one. Couldn't get anyresponses. I'd really appreciate it if anyone knew of any heavy tapers forabout a 10' 10wt. tarpon or heavy salmon pole. Would really appreciateany suggestions.ThanksSincerly,C.R. Adams from EM11EM22@aol.com Fri Sep 3 00:03:19 1999 Subject: 10wt. fly pole C.R. Adams:I have a cane 10', 10wt., 2 piece rod that I acquired a dozen or so years ago. Don't know who the maker was but the only I.D. on the rod was thename Wil Betten, I was told he was a tournament caster. I will mic it if you are interested, drop me a note. And to the list, does anyone recognize the name "Wil Betten?" Any info would be appreciated..........Ed Miller from eestlow@srminc.com Fri Sep 3 11:07:26 1999 Subject: Re: Hoagy Carmichael and "Stardust" 1999) at 09/03/9911:01:47 AM Was cleaning out my e-mail files and ran across this from last fall fromArt Port.-Ed ----- Forwarded by Ed Estlow/SRM/US on 09/03/99 11:05 AM ----- Art Portcc: (bcc: Ed Estlow/SRM/US)Subject: Re: H.C.10/31/9809:16 AMPleaserespond torodmakers Brian,I see you're either younger than some of us or "jazzicallychallenged". Bix Beiderbach was a terrific cornetist who was a good friendand sometime collaborator with Hoagy (pere). Bix died at a very young age(Ithink of musician's disease; either alcohol or drugs). Hoagy (the younger)once told me that either his dad would have become a lawyer or wouldhavedone it much earlier in life (I can't remember which) had it not been forBix showing up to yank "Dad" off to a gig somewhere just when he wasgettingclose to finishing his education! has gone BACK to show business. His friendship and collaboration withGaryGarrison developed BECAUSE he was in entertainment at that time and Idon'tthink he ever left. He told me he was working on the Mr. Rogers PBS showwhen he met Gary on (maybe the) Beaverkill. He apparently asked Garywherehe got the cane rod and Gary replied that he made it and Hoagy responded"No, where'd you REALLY get it?" When he found out the story of how theywere made he virtually moved in with the Garrisons for about two years ofweekends while they intended to make a document of the craft ( I thinkthat's the film that we've spoken of on the list in the past). I believe"The Book" was a secondary consideration at that time. Several timeswhen Imet him shortly after the book was published he mentioned attempting toputtogether a B'way show and he also mentioned that he had/has managedjazzbands over the years. I don't think he ever left show business--he justtookon the rodmaking as a love on the side.Art At 08:55 AM 10/31/98 -0500, you wrote:Jr. it isThanks guys & Art what did " Bix" stand for?I'd met Hoagy (JR) briefly back in the early 70's & couldn't imagine himasJr.Cheers Brian from dpeaston@wzrd.com Fri Sep 3 14:05:20 1999 Subject: Re: Stupid Question; was 10wt. fly pole At 01:02 AM 9/3/1999 EDT, EM11EM22@aol.com wrote:C.R. Adams:I have a cane 10', 10wt., 2 piece rod that I acquired a dozen or so years ago. Don't know who the maker was but the only I.D. on the rod was thename Wil Betten, I was told he was a tournament caster. I will mic it if you are interested, drop me a note. And to the list, does anyone recognize thename "Wil Betten?" Any info would be appreciated..........Ed MillerHi, I was just wondering why one would need a 10' rod to go Muskie fishing.Youwouldn't need to mend huge amounts of line Ala Steel head fishing norwouldyou have to use a double handed (Spey) casting style. I would think that built? Usually you work from a boat and sometimes you troll loong castsarenot necessarily required. JHMO -Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from rsgould@cmc.net Fri Sep 3 14:43:16 1999 Subject: Muskie rod Hi Chase,I'm a bit tardy responding to your request for a fly rod taper for big fishsuch as Muskie. Here's one for you: It's an 8 1/2 ft x 2pc x 7/8/9 wt witha graphite insert all the way through the butt section. I've takenrainbows, char, sockeye salmon, chum salmon, silver salmon and kingsalmonon this rod. It's strong and has a fast action. You need to use a fairlylarge capacity fly reel such as a Hardy St Aiden with lots of backing too.The taper is:0= 0.065", 5= 0.083", 10=0.102", 15= 0.120", 20= 0.136", 25= 0.150", 30=0.164", 35= 0.178", 40= 0.192", 45= 0.205", 50= 0.218", 55= 0.231", 60=0.245", 65= 0.262", 70= 0.282", 75= 0.0.31", 80= 0.345", 85= 0.367", 90=0.379", 95= 0.386", 100= 0.387', 102= 0.387". The graphite tube insert is0.057" dia at station 50 and 0.237" dia at station 100. The "rise" (increase in the taper/100") is 0.286" thus producing the fasr action. Itwould handle muskies or northern pike too.Ray from CAdams46@compuserve.com Fri Sep 3 16:47:38 1999 Subject: thanks on the 10wt. Thanks to everyone to sent a suggestion for the 10wt. fly rod question. Hadn't thought about using the hexrod software earlier. Think I came upwith a decent taper. Really appreciated the help and suggestions.Sincerly,C.R. Adams from wgray@uidaho.edu Fri Sep 3 17:03:50 1999 PAA05915 SMTP; 3 Sep1999 22:12:19 UT Subject: Selecting a rod --Message-Boundary-30377 Something to do if the weekend gets slow. To save bandwidth I amattaching a text file (about 6 pages) that is a chapter out of a 1940 book by a John Alden Knight titled The Theory and Technique of Fresh Water Angling. It was given to me after my father-in law passed on. He likely bought it as a young fisherman. The book was based on a course Knight taught at Columbia University ofthe same name. The attached chapter is titled Selecting a Fly Rod. Interesting discussion on what to look for in the heyday of cane rods. Enjoy --Message-Boundary-30377 The following section of this message contains a file attachmentprepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format.If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any another MIME-compliant system,you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer.If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance. ---- File information -----------File: pickarod.txtDate: 3 Sep 1999, 15:50Size: 22324 bytes.Type: Text --Message-Boundary-30377 Chapter 2. SELECTING A FLY ROD **

THE selection of a fly rod for a beginner is, unfortunately, usually influenced by the size of his pocketbook.  Not only does he want a rod that is suitable for all-round use but he seldom desires to spend what a really serviceable rod should cost.  

While there is no such thing as a rod which is perfectly suited to all methods of fishing-an all-round rod-it is possible to obtain a rod that can be thus used and that will function reasonably well in any capacity.  If a man can afford only one rod, then my suggestion would be a rod that is eight and a half feet long and that weighs about four and a half ounces.  Its action should be distributed more or less uniformly throughout its length, fast enough to handle a dry fly yet not too fast for comfortable wet fly and nymph fishing.  He should be sure not to get a "top action" rod with a light tip and a heavy butt section.  Such an action does not behave well with any length of line.  

As to price, it must be remembered that the law of economics applies just as well to rod manufacture as it does to any other.  While it is possible to design the cheaper rods so that they will function satisfactorily, the use of second grade material and "production" workmanship cannot be avoided in rods priced in the lower brackets.  While no two factories employ identical methods and practices, the general rule is that second grade wood is used in rods that retail for less than twenty-five dollars.

It is perfectly possible, if the buyer has good luck, to find rods that cost from ten to fifteen dollars which will maintain their resiliency year after year and give the same satisfaction that one might expect from a rod costing fifty dollars.  This, however, is definitely the exception rather than the rule.

Recently, there has been a decided tendency away from the three-piece rods and toward the two-piece variety.  In rods of eight feet or less, I prefer the two-piece but in larger rods, the three-piece is entirely satisfactory.

While many tackle salesmen are experienced anglers upon whose advice one may rely, this does not hold true of all tackle salesmen.  For that reason, the beginner, when he goes to purchase a rod, will be wise to take with him a seasoned angler who knows rods and rod action.  In that way he will have the benefit of advice from an impartial and practical source.

In 1935, one of my associates in business asked me to select a, fly rod for him.  Being in the early stages of angling, he said that he would leave the matter entirely to me.

"Just find me the best fly rod you can buy," he said.  "Get one that would be entirely satisfactory for your own use.  If it suits you, I know it will suit me."

His refusal to accompany me was, I believe, a wise one.  Had he been with me, it would have been inevitable that he, inexperienced though he was, would have had some voice in the final decision.  By myself, it was up to me to find what, in my opinion, was the best rod available in the shops at that particular time.  Thus, with carte blanche, I began a canvass of the tackle stores in search of the perfect fly rod.

It is not easy to select a rod for another angler.  There are two decided drawbacks to the procedure.  In the first place, no matter how carefully you do your job, there is always the risk that the final selection will fall short of giving full satisfaction.  What suits one man completely, often, for no definable reason, falls short of meeting all the expectations of the next.  Then, too, it is the lot of few men to own the perfect fly rod.  While I have owned, from time to time, perhaps two hundred rods, only one of those approaches a degree of excellence bordering on perfection.  Thus, in selecting a rod for another man, there is always the risk that you may stumble upon the long-sought rod of your dreams.  It would be a horrible situation in which to find yourself.

Nevertheless, I canvassed the tackle shops and looked at fly rods.  I suppose I must have looked at fifty or more.  None of them suited me.  There were three-all at different shops-any one of which might do the job.  These had been set aside pending my decision.  Then one day I walked into one of these shops, where the salesman, whom I had known for many years, said to me, "Say, Jack, I'm glad you dropped in. Here's one you haven't seen."

After poking around behind the counter a bit, he placed a rod case before me.  I opened it and assembled the rod-a two-piece, eightfoot, brown-tone rod of about three and seven-eighths ounces.  The minute my hand closed over the grip, I knew it was "the" rod.  I laid it on the counter and scratched my head in thought.  "No rod," I said to myself, "can be as good as that one seems to be.  No rod can have everything.  I must be getting stale from looking at too many." I asked the salesman to let me see the others I had looked at before, just as a basis of comparison.  But it was no use.  The more rods I examined, the more unsatisfactory they all seemed to be when compared with the new one.  So I decided to give it the third degree.

First, I inspected the reel seat.  Now, a lot of people like the locking reel seats.  I don't.  I think-they're heavy, cumbersome, and unnecessary.  They add weight to a rod and give no commensurate return in improved performance.  Metal reel seats reflect too much light.  The same is true of hard rubber.  Wooden reel seats are often difficult to adjust, because the reel ring sticks to the varnish.  The only reel seat that I like on a rod is one of cork.  This rod had a cork reel seat with a small, light butt cap and a reel ring not too large but large enough and loose enough to accommodate and hold any ordinary reel plate.  I tried various makes of American and English reels and they all fitted.  The spring of the cork held the ring tightly in place, yet the reels were easy to mount and dismount.  And, once mounted, I knew they would stay there and not fall off while my friend was playing a fish-than which there are few more exasperating happenings.  No, the reel seat was just right.

The grip came next.  Maybe I'm a bit overfussy, but I feel that a rod grip should be made sensibly.  A grip that is too small tires the hand quickly.  One that is too large takes up extra space and throws the rod out of balance.  The "shaped grips" and "fitted grips" with the trick thumb rests and bulges all seem to me to be a poor job of painting the lily.  I like a simple cork grip that fits comfortably in the fingers and that tapers down at the top so that you can feel each cast between the thumb and index finger.  This rod had a grip like a large panatella cigar, and it fitted my hand as though it had grown there.

Next I examined each joint to see if the assembly of the strips in the sections had been done correctly.  When sections are assembled for gluing, the leaf marks-the weakest part of the strips-should be staggered so that no two are directly opposite each other.  Thus is the section made uniform in resiliency.  Some factories assemble their sections "three and three"; in other words, three leaf marks on alternate strips are placed opposite each other.  It seems to me that more uniform distribution of weakness and strength is achieved if the leaf marks are staggered.  This rod had been assembled so that the leaf marks were perfectly staggered in a spiral that easily could be followed by the eye.  No fault to be found there.

Next I looked at the guides.  All of our good American rods are made with snake guides or "stand-up" guides of either phosphor bronze or tungsten steel.  The hand guide-the large guide nearest the grip-should be of the "ring" type, either of tungsten steel or agate.  The guides should be large enough to permit easy passage of the line.  They should be well spaced, not far enough apart to allow undue sagging of the line and not close enough so that guide friction is unnecessarily increased.  Two on the butt joint, four on the middle joint, and five on the tips for a three-piece rod; four on the butt joint and seven on the tips for a two-piece rod is about the right allotment.  The tips should be equipped with tungsten-steel tip guides They are lighter than agate and less apt to break and damage an expensive line.  This rod had guides which just suited me as to spacing, alignment, and size.

Next I looked at the ferrules.  So far as I could tell, the ferrules had been "frozen" on and not pinned.  Also, they were oxidized to a beautiful dull finish that would not reflect much light.  The top of the female ferrule had been "hand welted"-reinforced with a beveled German-silver band which had been hard-soldered on after the ferrule had been drawn.  It was also waterproofed by having a metal section hard-soldered in at the base of the well so that no moisture could reach the wood.  The male ferrules had been "shouldered" to allow for a variation of only six thousandths of an inch in the diameters of the wood above and below the ferrule assembly.  Both male and female ferrules were tapered where they met the wood to long, diagonal serrations of knife-blade fineness.  In short, they were the last word in well-made ferrules.

The girl who wrapped that rod knew her business.  The silk windings that reinforced the serrations at the ferrule bases stopped where wood and ferrule met, thus eliminating the possibility of the winding cracking open and allowing moisture to enter, as so often happens when the thread is carried down onto the wood for a short distance.  So many rod makers make this mistake.  Also, the guide wrappings were reinforced by five or six extra turns of thread back over the winding where the silk built up on the curve of the snake guide.
There were no useless intermediate windings and there was a small decorative "pattern" just above the winding check at the top of the grip.  A beautiful job!

The varnish had not been dipped on.  Instead, the rod had been given five or six well-brushed coats-enough to cover smoothly the silk windings.  The final coat had been rubbed lightly with powdered pumice or talc, so that the high gloss had been removed, thus minimizing light reflections.

At the top of the grip, a tiny "hook ring" had been bound in -not on the same strip as the guides but on the next strip to the left, so that the hook would not catch in the clothing when the rod was being carried in the right hand, butt forward, as is proper.

Careful inspection of the guides revealed not a trace of varnish.  There is no better way to ruin a good line than to leave varnish in the guides.  The varnish soon wears down flat and the sharp edges will quickly tear the soft finish from a tapered line.

Finding no fault with the fittings or finish, I next rolled each section under my right palm to test for uniformity and to locate the "high side." Few rod sections are uniform in their diameters between the three sets of opposed sides.  To locate the "high side" of a rod section, place the end of the section on the top of a table or counter and allow the other end to rest on the palm of the left hand.  Then, holding the section at an angle of about forty-five degrees with the counter, place the right palm on the center of the section and exert enough pressure to bend it slightly.  By rolling the bent section back and forth under the right palm, you will usually find one position in which the section has more resistance to the pressure of your palm than in other positions.  This is the "high side"-the side which has the most strength or power.  By mounting the guides opposite this most powerful side, the maximum power of the rod may be utilized in casting.

The sections all proved to be nearly uniform, with merely a suggestion of a "high side" in each case, and the guides had been mounted opposite the "high side" on all three sections.  Not trusting my sense of touch too much, I assembled the rod once more.  Then, holding it in line with my eye, I rotated it slowly and watched the tip for variation in sag.  There was none that I could see.

Next came a final inspection of the action.  I don't suppose that there is any subject in this world on which there is less agreement-religion, politics, and baseball included-than you will find in the consideration of rod action.  Even the definition of the word is somewhat obscure.  In general, rod action might be defined as the behavior of a fly rod under the stresses exerted upon it by casting.  When you consider that no two men cast with exactly the same motion, it naturally follows that in the hands of no two men will a rod have identical stresses placed upon it.  Thus, the action of a rod in the hand of one angler will differ somewhat from the action of the same rod in the hand of a second angler.  You can readily see, therefore, how difficult it is even to determine a common ground upon which two anglers might agree as to the action of any particular rod.

Fortunately it is not necessary to cast with a rod in order to get a general idea of its action.  It is possible to get the "action picture"-the appearance of the curve of the rod when under casting stress-while you are examining the rod in the tackle shop.  For some reason, not very many men know how to do this.  Frequently I have watched anglers inspect fly rods at the tackle counter-it's a fascinating performance.  Usually the procedure is to take the assembled rod from the salesman and then sight along its length to see if it is straight.  Next, they carefully waggle the rod.  They do this with a serious expression and a knowing air.  Having waggled, they go through the motions of casting a line.  Following this, comes the balancing test-finding the spot above the grip where the rod will balance on the index finger.  Then they waggle again, this time with the eyes shut or the head turned away.  After this the rod is placed on the counter and judgment is passed upon its merits.  Yet from all this they have learned absolutely nothing of definite value.

Just for fun, let's analyze these maneuvers.  First, the sighting along the rod to see if it is straight.  Of course, they find that it is.  The last thing a rod maker will do is to let a rod which is not perfectly straight leave the factory.  Only very rarely, by mistake or through lack of adequate final inspection, is a rod sent out that is not straight.  It is, however, a very rare occurrence.  Second, waggling.  Little can be learned from waggling concerning the action of the rod.  You can determine the balance-distribution of weight-in the rod by waggling it and noting where the vibrational node establishes itself.  In a three-piece rod, this node should be an inch or so above the top ferrule, and in approximately the same general location in a two-piece rod.  But to attempt to get the feel of the action by waggling-well, it just can't be done.  Third, going through the motions of casting.  This maneuver is of little value.  In the first place, the behavior of a rod without line load bears little or no relation to its behavior under actual fishing conditions. Moreover, the only visible result of making the casting motions with a rod is the behavior of the line when cast.  Having no line to observe, what can be learned by make-believe casting in the store?  As will be shown later, you can learn something by snapping the tip of the rod forward.  But in doing this, you first must learn to do it correctly and you must watch the rod closely at the time.  Fourth, the balancing test.  The knowledge derived from balancing the rod on the index finger has always seemed to me to be of dubious value.  In the first place, the point of balance is changed the minute a reel is placed on the rod.  It is changed again when the line is placed on the reel and again when the line is strung through the guides.  As there is no definite ratio of reel weight to rod weight (with the exception of the one and one-half to one ratio, which is a crude rule-of-thumb method of establishing a starting point from which the satisfactory balance eventually may be derived), each combination being made to suit the fancy of the caster, how can anything of value be learned of the rod's action from this process?  Rather, the logical procedure is first to determine the rod's action and then to establish the point of balance by adjusting the weight of reel and line, depending upon the power and character of the rod.  A fast, powerful dry fly rod will cast more easily with the point of balance moved back toward the grip, while a loose actioned wet fly rod seems to feel better with the point of balance six or eight inches above the grip.  It has long been my contention that the tolerance and self-control displayed by the average tackle salesman is something to make one marvel.  My admiration of such mastery of inner thoughts, which is so complete that no trace of them shows in the external behavior, is nothing short of profound.  I'm afraid that I wouldn't make a good tackle salesman.

But to return to the rod under consideration.  As I said, I decided to give it the third degree.  Holding the grip firmly in my hand and bracing my arm against my side, I began to wave the tip guide gently from side to side with the rod held directly before me.  In doing this, I was careful not to attempt to alter the natural timing of the rod as it swung from side to side.  Then I studied the curve of the rod under stress.  The upper rod took only a slight curve and this curve increased gradually as the eye traveled down toward the grip.  Most of the bend came between a point about six inches above the ferrule and a point about two feet above my hand.  That was just about right.  Handing the rod to the salesman, I asked him to repeat the process while I checked my observations from the other end of the rod.  Again the curve of the rod seemed to be satisfactory.

It is impossible to say just why this type of action curve is preferable to others.  All I know is this: a rod with that type of curve, minus line load, gives very good results under actual casting conditions.  The rate of vibration and the general appearance of the action curve are things which must be learned through the trial-and-error method.  Once learned, they will not be forgotten.

The next step was to determine the behavior of the tip with relation to casting ability.  Holding the grip firmly, I executed the motion of throwing the tip into the finish of a long cast.  The motion is much the same as that made in cracking the lash of a buggy whip.  The tip is snapped forward sharply, followed by an immediate checking of the lower rod.  If done correctly, this motion will show you two important things about a rod.  It will locate for you any faults in the taper of the middle rod and it will tell you how the rod will behave when handling a long line.  If the power and resiliency of the rod is not properly distributed, the tip will snap over to an alarming degree, setting up a vibrational node which sometimes is as much as three feet from the end of the rod.  Again, if the tip itself be too soft, it will bend sharply about eighteen inches from the tip guide.  In either case, the rod had better be left on the counter.  The reasons are as follows: In the former case, when the sharp bend occurs well down in the rod, the distribution of power is such as to cause the rod to bog down and refuse to cast a line of fifty feet or better with any degree of precision.  When the bend comes about eighteen inches from the tip, you will find that a line of forty feet or more will be cast mainly by the lower rod, with the soft tip following through and doing no real work.  Either type will cast a line having a decided downward "hump," so that it is difficult if not impossible to cast a reasonably straight line.

The rod under consideration had none of these faults.  The tip would snap through almost as a unit.  Then, when the lower rod was checked, the strain would distribute itself along the rod, so that there would be no sharp bend at any point-merely a general flexing of the whole rod, indicating the delivery of the power of the cast to the line efficiently at the point of release.  It was a beautiful rod.

Giving the salesman explicit instructions concerning the holding of the rod until my friend could call for it, I returned to the office with joy in my heart and reported a job well done.

For two seasons my friend used the rod in his fishing.  With it, he learned to cast quite a presentable line and I took pride in his achievement.  At some inconvenience, I obtained from England a line to match the action of the rod.  The combination was such that it made me most unhappy to cast with it.  It was indeed beautiful.  With the following spring, however, came disillusionment.  I had dropped by his desk to have a chat about the coming trout season.  There's always a lot to talk about before the season opens.

"Haven't thought about it much," he said.  "As a matter of fact, I'm giving up fishing this year.  I can get all the exercise I want playing golf and I don't have to drive so far to do it.  Then, too, I'm making a serious study of bridge and we play a lot every weekend.  Fishing doesn't fit in with that program."

My mind went back to the week I had spent in searching the tackle shops and to the joy I had experienced in finding the ideal rod.  Also, I remembered overcoming the temptation to buy that rod for myself and substitute another nearly as good for his use.  I asked him if he wanted to sell his rod.

"Oh, no," he answered.  "I may need it sometime and it's a nice rod.  I guess I'll keep it."

Depressed in spirit and with the taste of ashes in my mouth, I said good-by and went to lunch.  My resentment spoiled the taste of my food.  Brooding, I sat there pondering on the perversity of human nature and making meaningless marks on the tablecloth when I was aroused by a hearty slap on the shoulder.

"Jack," a voice said.  "Just the fellow I've been looking for.  I wonder if you'd mind walking up to Joe's shop and helping me pick out a fly rod."

**Knight, John Alden, The Theory and Technique of Fresh Water Angling, pp 16-29, Harcourt, Brace and company, NY, 1940.
 --Message-Boundary-30377-- from brookie@frii.com Fri Sep 3 18:04:00 1999 Subject: fishing the 3 wt golden blond The little cane did a superb job today, and perhaps ( modestlysaid *G* ) I contributed to that ! My friend (Jonathan Clark of Twin Pines cane in Fla. ) and I had a superb day on the stream in Colorado , up on the biggerwaters of the Cache La Poudre. Each of us caught around 15 fish, browns and rainbows, healthy rainbows. And guess what Sue and the Constable Cane did ? We caught ourselvesan 18" rainbow ! Friend Jon got one same size on anotherstretch of the river. Others were from 12" up to 14" I should think. Weather cooperated, intermittent sun and clouds. Fish all on dries. He was using a 7 wt cane, I the 3 wt. What a differencein casting these two rods for me. My cane is very slow action,flexes all the way down into the butt section. No matter that it's taper makes for a slow action, I speed up the casting to fit my style ! What a great little cane. ( Have I said that before ?*VBG* ) Stoked stoked stoked ! Jon by the way did mic my cane the other night and will feed thenumbers into the Cattanach program. He believes it will showthe classic 'dome' on the graph ! It will finally be nice toquantity/qualify what type of rod I DO have. wonderful this cane thing, it truely is *VBG* from brookie@frii.com Fri Sep 3 18:22:15 1999 Subject: Need biondo email ...the esteemed listmeister's email addy ? just triedthis one and it bounced : Mike Biondo michael@wugate.wustl.edu Do I need some or something ? thanks from rambo2_98@yahoo.com Fri Sep 3 21:09:49 1999 1999 19:11:44 PDT Subject: sherline lathe for sale I've a brand new, never used Sherline lathe plusaccessories for sale. I came into an old WalkerTurner lathe that will suit my rodbuilding needs justfine. Anyone interested, please contact me off-list. Thanks. Jeff Ramsey__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from irish-george@pacbell.net Fri Sep 3 22:34:00 1999 "irish-george" Subject: Re: Sherline lathe for sale boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0059_01BEF64B.A5C231A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0059_01BEF64B.A5C231A0 I keep forgetting that for some of you it may be helpful if I pass on a =link when I run across lathes in sizes that are useful for rodmakers =(since I have been browsing such sort of sites looking for a vertical =mill about 1/2 - 2/3 the size of a Bridgeport). Anyway, I ran across some used lathes in the appropriate sizes at:http://www.paramountmachinery.comlisted under their "September Specials" link. I have no commercial interest in the above site, don't know the owners, =and have never even ordered from them. Just passing along information =-- so proceed as if you'd just stumbled upon the link. If you are close =enough to them to actually see and evaluate any of their offerings, you =might want to check out a couple of articles at http://www.mermac.com(a =competitor of Paramount Machinery) that tell how to go about evaluating =used lathes and milling machines. George ------=_NextPart_000_0059_01BEF64B.A5C231A0 I keep forgetting that for some of= helpful if I pass on a link when I run across lathes in sizes that are = vertical mill about 1/2 - 2/3 the size of a Bridgeport). Anyway, I ran across some used lathes in the = at:http://www.paramountmachinery.=comlisted under their Specials" link. I have no commercial interest inthe = = along information -- so proceed as if you'd just stumbled upon the = If you are close enough to them to actually see and evaluate any of = offerings, you might want to check out a couple of articles at http://www.mermac.com (acompetitor = Paramount Machinery) that tell how to go about evaluating used lathes = milling machines. George ------=_NextPart_000_0059_01BEF64B.A5C231A0-- from chris@artistree.com Sat Sep 4 01:39:20 1999 Subject: Ultimate Bamboo Fly Rod Library Update List,Just a note to let anyone interested know that "The Ultimate Bamboo FlyRod Library" ( http://www.artistree.com/SplitCaneLibrary/ ) has justreceived it's latest update. This update has a bit of an internationaltheme. Quite a few European titles have been added as well as someEnglish titles for those of us residing in the former British coloniesaround the world. A special thanks goes out to German rodmaker Wolfram Schott forgenerously sharing his comprehensive collection of European cane rodliterature. I would also like to thank the list members (you guys knowwho you are) who also submitted contributions. -- Best Regards, Chris WohlfordThe Ultimate Bamboo Fly Rod Libraryhttp://www.artistree.com/SplitCaneLibrary/email: chris@artistree.com from saltwein@swbell.net Sat Sep 4 08:06:48 1999 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7)with ESMTP id for Subject: need info Hell All, Received my new ferrules yesterday. Cudos to CSE and Bailey Wood forquick turn around and correctly filled order. Next years rods are on theway. I am interested in finding a site that I had bookmarked and thendeleted. It pertained to the classic rod builders and had bios on all ofthem. I can't remember where it was. Does anyone have the url. TIA. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from dan_cooney@ibm.net Sat Sep 4 08:32:58 1999 Sat, 4 Sep 1999 13:32:47 GMT Subject: Re: need info Steve, Try the Fly Anglers Online web site at:http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bamboo/ At the bottom of the page, click on "With Bamboo Archives." In thearchives, you'll find about 11 brief bios of some of the classicrodmakers. Hope this helps. Dan CooneyCary, NC from darrelll@earthlink.net Sat Sep 4 11:52:09 1999 Subject: Re: need info Steve, Uno mas... http://www.bobwhite.com/bamboo/rod_makers.htm Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com -----Original Message----- Subject: need info Hell All, Received my new ferrules yesterday. Cudos to CSE and Bailey Wood forquick turn around and correctly filled order. Next years rods are on theway. I am interested in finding a site that I had bookmarked and thendeleted. It pertained to the classic rod builders and had bios on all ofthem. I can't remember where it was. Does anyone have the url. TIA. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from leroyt@involved.com Sat Sep 4 15:19:56 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61049U4500L450S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Sat, 4 Sep 1999 13:19:20 -0700 Subject: plane boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003E_01BEF6D9.1519C8A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01BEF6D9.1519C8A0 Listmembers, Has somebody tried one of those electric planes for doing = Thanks in advance, Leroy.................. ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01BEF6D9.1519C8A0 Listmembers, Hassomebody = those electric planes for doing rough work on the strips? Leroy.................. ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01BEF6D9.1519C8A0-- from dpizza@access1.net Sun Sep 5 16:47:43 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A49717A0236; Sun, 05 Sep 1999 14:45:59 -0700 Subject: test boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001C_01BEF7AD.7D10ABC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BEF7AD.7D10ABC0 ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BEF7AD.7D10ABC0 ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BEF7AD.7D10ABC0-- from miler257@gateway.net Sun Sep 5 18:21:05 1999 Subject: recent visit boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002C_01BEF7CB.895ABEC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BEF7CB.895ABEC0 boundary="----=_NextPart_001_002D_01BEF7CB.895ABEC0" ------=_NextPart_001_002D_01BEF7CB.895ABEC0 Please read the enclosed attachment concerning a visit to the Paul Young = Ed =M. ------=_NextPart_001_002D_01BEF7CB.895ABEC0 Please read the enclosedattachment = visit to the Paul Young Rod Co. in Traverse City, Michigan. It was a = Ed M. ------=_NextPart_001_002D_01BEF7CB.895ABEC0-- ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BEF7CB.895ABEC0 name="slow list.eml" filename="slow list.eml" Subject: slow list boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEF005.5BB14700" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEF005.5BB14700 Well, there are no messages coming through so I guess I'll share my =latest find with the List.Last week I was in Traverse City , Michigan on a family vacation and =decided to look up Todd Young , the grandson of Paul Young ,and current =owner of the Paul Young Rod Co.I visited Todd at his shop and was very impressed with the man and =his dedication carrying the family name. He is a passionate believer in =making rods that will last for years and years without becoming soft and=that will be great fishing tools. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEF005.5BB14700 Well, there are no messagescoming = guess I'll share my latest find with the List. was = City , Michigan on a family vacation and decided to look up Todd Young , = grandson of Paul Young ,and current owner of the Paul Young Rod =Co. at = and was very impressed with the man and his dedication carrying the = tools. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEF005.5BB14700-- ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BEF7CB.895ABEC0-- from mrj@aa.net Sun Sep 5 19:57:30 1999 Sun, 5 Sep 1999 17:57:24 -0700 Subject: RE: recent visit boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01BEF7C7.16324B60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BEF7C7.16324B60 Unless I missed something, I think that a message of this sort would bebetter off to just include in the body of your e-mail message. Attachmentsare very suspicious in this day of viruses and in particular your messageofonly three short paragraphs (I think) did not warrant being sent as anattachment. I for one rarely open up attachments unless I know the personwho sent it. I did in this instance because I was curious about theworkingsof the new Payne Rod Co.Again, Attachments are a hassle and an easy way to introduce a virus.Unless it is something in a foreign form like a excel spreadsheet thatrequires being sent as an attachment, please use the message body of thee-mail message. Martin Jensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: September 05, 1999 4:22 PM Subject: recent visit Please read the enclosed attachment concerning a visit to the Paul YoungRod Co. in Traverse City, Michigan. It was a special time for me.Ed M. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BEF7C7.16324B60 I missed something, I think that a message of this sort would be better = just include in the body of your e-mail message. Attachments are very = in this day of viruses and in particular your message of only three = paragraphs (I think) did not warrant being sent as an attachment. I for = rarely open up attachments unless I know the person who sent it. I did = instance because I was curious about the workings of the new Payne Co. virus. it is something in a foreign form like a excel spreadsheet that requires = Martin Jensen miler257Sent: September 05, 1999 4:22 RodmakersSubject: recent visitPlease read the enclosed = a visit to the Paul Young Rod Co. in Traverse City, Michigan. It was a = Ed M. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BEF7C7.16324B60-- from mrj@aa.net Sun Sep 5 20:40:12 1999 Subject: fishing the St Joe. in Idaho boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01BEF7CD.0E697060" 00000000AA7800AC50A7D2119BA200A0C921145EE4212500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01BEF7CD.0E697060 I am planning on making a trip to the St Joe for the next weekend(9/10/99 - 9/13/99) and was wondering if anyone had any fish reports orcomments. I plan on fishing above Prospector Cr. but where I don't knowyet.Sounds like a good place to try out my latest rod. A 7.5ft'er for a 4 wt. Ihave fished there before but not for a couple of years now. Martin Jensen ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01BEF7CD.0E697060 name="winmail.dat" filename="winmail.dat" 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 ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01BEF7CD.0E697060-- from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Sep 5 22:20:51 1999 Sun, 5 Sep 1999 22:26:22 -0500 "tri-fly@listserv.oit.unc.edu" ,"Flytyer@direct-pest.com" ,"rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Dealers Convention Anyone going to the FF Dealers Convention in SaltLake City next week stop by the Gudebrod booth andsay hello. I always enjoy putting faces to names.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Sep 5 22:21:18 1999 Subject: Varnish I just got my drain tube in operation and did onebutt section that I had originally brushed andsanded. The varnish looks a bit heavy, should itbe thinned. If so, how much. The drain rate wasabout 4" a minute.Thanks in advance.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from mrmac@tcimet.net Sun Sep 5 22:56:37 1999 Subject: First rod! Rodmakers - I took my first rod, a Sir D, out to the river today and wastickled beyond words. I can't thank the list enough for the manysuggestions, tips, and just general moral support I got by listening inon your experiences which was a big help in keeping it going. I "gotthe urge" about a year ago, subscribed to the list, started acquiringtools and supplies a little at a time, and this spring was ready toroll. I set a goal of fishing yet this season with my first rod, andthanks to a roll of masking tape, it happened today. No one said theguides had to be silk-wound for a "field testing exercise" - right? Details I'll attend to when we get back to civilization. You can't believe what a gas it is to take your first rod out and findout how good it can feel. Just take it a step at a time, and you'll getthere. I was reminded today of a Ralph Moon note I read about his firstrod which was somewhat less than perfect, but it fished like a champ,and he still uses it. I've got boo-boos here and there, and havecreated a new variation on the Sir D taper, perhaps not quite with priorintent mind you ;-), (and I bet I'm not the first), but it threw lineso-o-o nice, who cares? (newbie note - the book *does* say to take mostof the enamel off BEFORE final planing). Oh, yah - it caught trout, too. (Gentlemen don't ask about size - andSue, you stay out of it!) Thanks again, everyone, for so many helpful ideas. Wouldn't likely havegot there without you. #2, . . probably a PHY Perfectionist. So many tapers to try, not tomention another Sir D that's "on spec" for comparison. mac from EM11EM22@aol.com Mon Sep 6 02:21:22 1999 Subject: 10 wt. To the list of those requesting the 10wt taper:Here is the taper to my 10 wt., it has been packed away since it gave me tennis elbow in 1986. Not a 10 footer, but a 9.5 footer, 2 piece 10wt. (It is not for the feint hearted.............) It is a monster rod.................. I caught 3 mature north coast California steelhead on my "first" trip out them on this rod. It can handle way more than I subjected it too.....................0=.0925=.11310=.12515=.15420=.17525=.19630=.21835=.23340 5/16 =.253 (guide placement)45=.27150=.28955= (under tip ferrule)60 3/8=.320 (guide placement)65=.33570=.35075=.36480=.37585=.39090=.40095=.425100=.435105= (under cork grip)It is a 2 piece, 9.5 foot 8.8oz. rod.Again I ask the list if anyone has information for a tournament casternamed Will Betten, the only name associated with the rod.Hope this can help you big fish affectionato's............. The finish was in bad shape when I acquired it, so I stripped it, rewrapped new guides, new grip, and new reel seat. The finish is 6 coats of Behlens Tung Oil, so no varnish, except only on the guide wraps. Many thanks for any help..............Regards,Ed from brookie@frii.com Mon Sep 6 07:37:13 1999 Subject: Rotating Brass Ferrule Alright, I can't stand it ! No solution has appeared to me in a streamside vision, no friend has come up with a good answer. Since it is the cane I speak of,I come to the rodM. this morning to see what YOUR advice would be : I'll present the 'givens' in case one of them is a clue to the or some solution(s) : It's a 6'6" 3 wt British cane rod, made in 70's.The maker is no longer w/us, can't contact him.The ferrules are brass ( not N/S ). The bottom section is shorter that top, and it has a metal rod-extender you put into female ferrule when putting away. It was fished somewhat last year,heavily fished this year. Perhaps 2-3X a week. Used on rough and tumble, and yet sometimes on pleasantly smooth waters in Colorado, catching 8" - 18" fish, average 13-14". Fish ARE feisty,we're both in moving waters. While bringing them in is done rather quickly , they ( thefish *S* ) do fight, jump, turn, twist, etc. And yes, I wipe it down and re-insert ferrule extender before putting away. No major traumaswith the rod, no falling down, squashing in thevehicle door, no extreme heat nor cold. Alwaysput away in rod carrier. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~The problem ? The two sectins are rotating on me during the fishingday. Not once, but twice usually. This just startedin last month. And how do I detect it ? The line isnot casting like it should. Quick check and sure enough, the top section is rotated a few degrees off from alignment. I'm confident that I AM putting the two sectionstogether tightly at the beginning of the fishing day.With no twisting, straight-on ! It's got to do with the fitting, yes ? Remember, they are brass if that makes a diff. Suggestions ? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Headed off fishing ( so what's different about mylife ? ) , so won't see responses for a day or so. Appreciate your thoughts immensely. Send public orvia private email. SueColorado from maxs@geocities.co.jp Mon Sep 6 08:29:19 1999 bysv01.geocities.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W) with ESMTP id WAA18072; Mon, 6Sep 1999 22:29:14+0900 (JST) mail.geocities.co.jp(1.3G-GeocitiesJ-3.1) with SMTP id WAA28655; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 22:29:12+0900 (JST) Subject: RE: Varnish I just got my drain tube in operation and did onebutt section that I had originally brushed andsanded. The varnish looks a bit heavy, should itbe thinned. If so, how much. The drain rate wasabout 4" a minute.Thanks in advance.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Hello Tony, I am glad to tell you my experience of drain dipping.I purchased a kind of polyurethane which is usually used to varnish floor,as I heard that it will become hardest when dried. As I used 1 inch.internal dia. PVC pipe,I purchased a can which contains 700 cc of poly. I used a 1000cc buckettomix poly and thinner, terpentile oil. I mixed 200 cc tepentile oil to 700cc poly fluid, then itwent 900cc as a whole. I drained in the speed of 2 inches a minute since my blank already hadguides and wraps on it.The result of varnish looked very good but it looked thin. But the surfacedid not have any drop ofpolyurethane. I dip drained 4 times to finalize the varnish. No sandingwas needed. If you make polyurethane thinner, you may need to dip the rod more times.This is the rule, IMHOWhen I used purchased poly without thinning it, upper part was alright butthe bottom part became alittle too thick. I thought it was because the drain rate will slow down inthe course of draining.(as the weight of poly gets less, then gravity gets less) It also relates with the sharpness of the edge of hexagon if you might havea raised round varnish on eachflat as a result. When edges are too sharp, poly tends to stick at thecenter of each flat when poly isnot thinned. To avoid this, I usually give two or three light passes ofsteel wool holding a blank withinthe steel wool to round hex cornors a little bit. Then cornor can holdpoly on it and no round raise on flats. How about start thinning a little bit in the proportion of 100 cc to 700 cc.If it is still too heavy add 100 cc more next time. Max from mrj@aa.net Mon Sep 6 11:17:46 1999 Mon, 6 Sep 1999 09:17:37 -0700 Subject: RE: Rotating Brass Ferrule I would check to see if during your casting you are rotating the rodsomewhat. I know that I find that during casting I look down at my reelandI have rotated it in not quite 90 degrees sometimes! This is unconscious tome and I correct it as soon as I notice it but I would think that this mightcause this twisting as the guides try to re-align themselves with thedirection of the rod?This could not happen if you had really tight ferrules (I would think) but Ibet it could with just a good snug fit (that would be judged a proper fit).this about this the next time you take it fishing. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Rotating Brass Ferrule Alright, I can't stand it ! No solution has appearedto me in a streamside vision, no friend has come upwith a good answer. Since it is the cane I speak of,I come to the rodM. this morning to see what YOURadvice would be : I'll present the 'givens' in case one of them isa clue to the or some solution(s) : It's a 6'6" 3 wt British cane rod, made in 70's.The maker is no longer w/us, can't contact him.The ferrules are brass ( not N/S ). The bottomsection is shorter that top, and it has a metalrod-extender you put into female ferrule whenputting away. It was fished somewhat last year,heavily fished this year. Perhaps 2-3X a week.Used on rough and tumble, and yet sometimes onpleasantly smooth waters in Colorado, catching8" - 18" fish, average 13- 14". Fish ARE feisty,we're both in moving waters. While bringingthem in is done rather quickly , they ( thefish *S* ) do fight, jump, turn, twist, etc.And yes, I wipe it down and re-insert ferruleextender before putting away. No major traumaswith the rod, no falling down, squashing in thevehicle door, no extreme heat nor cold. Alwaysput away in rod carrier. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~The problem ? The two sectins are rotating on me during the fishingday. Not once, but twice usually. This just startedin last month. And how do I detect it ? The line isnot casting like it should. Quick check and sureenough, the top section is rotated a few degrees off from alignment. I'm confident that I AM putting the two sectionstogether tightly at the beginning of the fishing day.With no twisting, straight-on ! It's got to do with the fitting, yes ? Remember,they are brass if that makes a diff. Suggestions ? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Headed off fishing ( so what's different about mylife ? ) , so won't see responses for a day or so. Appreciate your thoughts immensely. Send public orvia private email. SueColorado from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Sep 6 11:27:44 1999 Subject: Re: Varnish, First Rod Ralph,Welcome to the club, sounds like you are hooked. I'm glad you likedthe Sir D. It still remains my favorite rod, even in it's quad and pentaversions I am making now. Max writes,When I used purchased poly without thinning it, upper part was alrightbutthe bottom part became alittle too thick. I thought it was because the drain rate will slow down inthe course of draining.(as the weight of poly gets less, then gravity gets less) One interesting thing about dip rates (or drain rates) is that the slowertherate the thinner the coat. If you drain faster or withdraw the rod from adiptube faster the coat will be thicker (viscosity of the varnish remaining constant).This is because the varnish doesn't have as much time to flow off the rodwitha fast rate. Prove it to yourself by dipping a rod and hand pulling it out ata quick rate. I mean something like 30 sec. for the whole section. Look at the thickness of the coat. And to answer Tony's question, yes I do thin myvarnish. How much depends on the varnish you use and the rate of draining. Darryl from sats@gte.net Mon Sep 6 11:31:33 1999 Subject: When do you sharpen? This is a little bit of an esoteric question but: Do you sharpen your irons before you start the days work or before you puttheplane back in the tool box at the end of the session? Just curious. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from sats@gte.net Mon Sep 6 11:32:05 1999 Subject: Smoothing Bamboo I recently had a section of a bamboo rod that had been sanded as smooth asI wasgoing to get it with sandpaper. It was still a little grainy so I tried atrick from my model building days. In those days, I'd sand with wet and dry until I got a flat surface, then"Polish" with some type of polishing agent AND brown paper from a paperbag(the type you get in a grocery store when you ask for paper, not plastic.) Thevery last thing I'd do was use the brown paper by itself. I decided to try the plane brown paper on the rod. It seemed to polish thebamboo as well as it had the plastic. Anyone ever try this? Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Sep 6 11:35:17 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Mon, 6 Sep 1999 11:35:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Rotating Brass Ferrule Sue,If your friend Jonathon is still around, get him to take a look atit. The metal to metal ferrule fit is probably loose. Either it's timeto fit new ferrules, or tighten those on the rod. For a temporarysolution, try rubbing the male ferrule on a candle. The wax should keepyou going the rest of the season. Good luck,Harry SueK wrote: Alright, I can't stand it ! No solution has appearedto me in a streamside vision, no friend has come upwith a good answer. Since it is the cane I speak of,I come to the rodM. this morning to see what YOURadvice would be : I'll present the 'givens' in case one of them isa clue to the or some solution(s) : It's a 6'6" 3 wt British cane rod, made in 70's.The maker is no longer w/us, can't contact him.The ferrules are brass ( not N/S ). The bottomsection is shorter that top, and it has a metalrod-extender you put into female ferrule whenputting away. It was fished somewhat last year,heavily fished this year. Perhaps 2-3X a week.Used on rough and tumble, and yet sometimes onpleasantly smooth waters in Colorado, catching8" - 18" fish, average 13- 14". Fish ARE feisty,we're both in moving waters. While bringingthem in is done rather quickly , they ( thefish *S* ) do fight, jump, turn, twist, etc.And yes, I wipe it down and re-insert ferruleextender before putting away. No major traumaswith the rod, no falling down, squashing in thevehicle door, no extreme heat nor cold. Alwaysput away in rod carrier. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~The problem ? The two sectins are rotating on me during the fishingday. Not once, but twice usually. This just startedin last month. And how do I detect it ? The line isnot casting like it should. Quick check and sureenough, the top section is rotated a few degrees off from alignment. I'm confident that I AM putting the two sectionstogether tightly at the beginning of the fishing day.With no twisting, straight-on ! It's got to do with the fitting, yes ? Remember,they are brass if that makes a diff. Suggestions ? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Headed off fishing ( so what's different about mylife ? ) , so won't see responses for a day or so. Appreciate your thoughts immensely. Send public orvia private email. SueColorado from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Sep 6 11:42:47 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Mon, 6 Sep 1999 11:42:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Smoothing Bamboo Terry,I haven't used brown paper to polish, but lately have started using thenewsynthetic steel wool that comes in sheets like sandpaper. With a thinstripfastened to a sanding block, the results are outstanding. The bambooshines like ahand rubbed tung oil finish. And the sanding block keeps you from roundingthecorners of the hexagon. Harry "Terry L. Kirkpatrick" wrote: I recently had a section of a bamboo rod that had been sanded as smoothas I wasgoing to get it with sandpaper. It was still a little grainy so I tried atrick from my model building days. In those days, I'd sand with wet and dry until I got a flat surface, then"Polish" with some type of polishing agent AND brown paper from a paperbag(the type you get in a grocery store when you ask for paper, not plastic.) Thevery last thing I'd do was use the brown paper by itself. I decided to try the plane brown paper on the rod. It seemed to polishthebamboo as well as it had the plastic. Anyone ever try this? Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Sep 6 11:48:24 1999 Subject: 5 Foot one piece fly rod Group,Sorry I have been off the list so long, I started a new job, andI had to get up to speed quickly. I also had some rods I hadto make, so I had little time to contribute to the list. I have been fishing the local streams more than usual so I developed what I think is the perfect rod for the small brushovergrown creeks around here. A 5 ft. one piece fly rod.Keep im mind in usual use this rod has about 2 feet offly line out with a 12 ft. 7x leader. 15 feet will be to theother side of the stream. What makes this rod better than most short rods is thecareful application of the Cattanach Hinge. I kid you notwhen I say this rod roll casts as far as it regular casts,which is about 30 feet - it *is* a small rod. What line weight? It doesn't matter. Remember I said Iusually have only a couple of feet of fly line out. Flylinesare all about the same size for the first couple feet. I even found a rod tube for it - meant to be for a 10 ft. two piece. Darryl from cattanac@wmis.net Mon Sep 6 11:52:37 1999 0000 Subject: Re: When do you sharpen? Terry -The sound of the planing will thell you when to sharpen. Whe the bladeis sharp you will hear a whish as you glide it through the bamboo. whenyoudon't hear the sound sharpen.Also - when planing the only downward effort should be the weight oftheplane itself - I recommend holding the plane with the thumb on one sideandthe first two finger on the other. None of this adding downwardpressurewith the first finger applied to the throat adjusting knob. When things arecorrect the plane sings to you when it doen't sharpen.The number of sharpening can very from a couple per section to at leasta sharpening per finished strip - the varibles are the amount of materialbeing removed - the silica(sand particles) locked with in the bamboo - andseveral other veribles.Another occurance I've seen is that if the burr isn't fully removed itcan cause havic - you go to plan and get a couple of passes and then theplaning goes dead (The burr flips up - as if laying your hand outward toillustrate the blade - then roll your fingers closed - ) and shaving arehard to make and you have to add great down pressure to get the plane tocut - solution - go ack and better remove the burr. With This - Happy Planing Wayne from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Sep 6 14:00:35 1999 Tue, 7 Sep 1999 03:07:56 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: When do you sharpen? Before, during, during, during, during, after. ;-) When the plane stopsmaking a "snick" sound and starts being hard to push it's time. Tony On Mon, 6 Sep 1999, Terry L. Kirkpatrick wrote: This is a little bit of an esoteric question but: Do you sharpen your irons before you start the days work or before youput theplane back in the tool box at the end of the session? Just curious. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Sep 6 14:37:18 1999 Mon, 6 Sep 1999 14:43:07 -0500 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Varnish, First Rod Darryl, Thanks for your reply.This rod is the first bamboo rod I made. Theinitial finishwas put on with soft cloth dipped in varnish. Iapplied two coats that werealmost completely wiped off. I waited several daysto wrap the guides. In wrappingthe guides it seemed that the varnish was stillsoft. The thread would not slideeasy on the blank. It took longer to wrap but Idid get good wraps. I finished therod with a few coats of varnish on the wraps, thatwas three months ago. I did notthin the varnish on the wraps, I think I shouldof. I will on the next one. Ifinally got my drain tube finished yesterday andused it for the first time onthis rod. The dipped rod looks good, the wrapslook a bit heavy to me. Can youtell me if I would get a decent finish on thewraps if I just put the rod in thetube without any varnish on wraps and let it sit Would the wraps look under varnished or rough. Iknow I can run tests to determinethis but I am a little short on time right now. Oh Yes, the rod is a Sir "D". It casts better thanany of the older bamboo rods I have. I like it sowell that I am making them for my sons and grandkids along with my brother in laws. I have ninebutt and three tip sections glued up and one setready for guides. I want the finish on these to beas good as I can get them. I need to finish onebefore the end of the month as a gift. That is whyI don't have time to experiment and amasking for advice.Thanks again.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com One interesting thing about dip rates (or drain rates) is that the slowertherate the thinner the coat. If you drain faster or withdraw the rod from adiptube faster the coat will be thicker (viscosity of the varnish remainingconstant).This is because the varnish doesn't have as much time to flow off the rodwitha fast rate. Prove it to yourself by dipping a rod and hand pulling it outata quick rate. I mean something like 30 sec. for the whole section. Lookatthe thickness of the coat. And to answer Tony's question, yes I do thinmyvarnish. How much depends on the varnish you use and the rate ofdraining. Darryl from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Sep 6 14:40:11 1999 Subject: Re: When do you sharpen? Terry You should get in the habit of sharpening before you put your toolsaway. While doing this you clean and oil the plane. This protects the toolfrommoisture and rust. The same goes for your forms and other tools. If youtake care of your tools they will take care of you. It is all part of"Craftsmanship". The tool will be ready to go the next time you need to use it. Chris On Mon, 06 Sep 1999 17:22:14 GMT, Terry L. Kirkpatrick wrote: This is a little bit of an esoteric question but: Do you sharpen your irons before you start the days work or before youput theplane back in the tool box at the end of the session? Just curious. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from bob@downandacross.com Mon Sep 6 15:09:41 1999 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: lines Thanks to everyone who e-mailed me about the silk lines.Is anyone currently using the Chalkstream lines with their rods? Theysound like an interesting alternative. Thinner, silk line tapers, and no messy reconditioning or price. I know Ralph thinks highly of them, has anyone else had good results?Thanks, Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY from goodaple@tcac.net Mon Sep 6 16:10:38 1999 Subject: test only boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01BEF400.C0D03340" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BEF400.C0D03340 ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BEF400.C0D03340 ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BEF400.C0D03340-- from jf_gray@ix.netcom.com Mon Sep 6 18:17:11 1999 18:16:50 -0500 ix11.ix.netcom.com viasmap (V1.3) Subject: Munro Rod Co still in business?? Is Jon Lintvet still in business? I ordered a binder from him andhaven't heard from him in a while. I know he moved but is he still inbusiness? He hasn't responded to e-mail or phone messages. from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Mon Sep 6 18:53:41 1999 Subject: Re: Munro Rod Co still in business?? I don't know! I also called and e mailed but didn't get a response I wanted to make a fairly big purchase of tools and such and have not heard a peep. from oakmere@carol.net Mon Sep 6 19:00:42 1999 Subject: RE: Twisting Rod Sections Sue: I usually just rub the male ferrule with a plain candle and then insert itinto the female if they are slightly loose. The excess wax extrudes out ofthe female ferrule and the rod stays tight all day in situations I haveencountered with older rods. FrankFrank Paul, GreyFox2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 29672fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work)oakmere@carol.net (home) from channer@hubwest.com Mon Sep 6 22:07:05 1999 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A1C84DC00B2; Mon, 06 Sep 1999 21:08:56 MST Subject: Re: When do you sharpen? At 03:07 AM 09/07/1999 +0800, Tony Young wrote: Before, during, during, during, during, after. ;-) When the plane stopsmaking a "snick" sound and starts being hard to push it's time. Tony On Mon, 6 Sep 1999, Terry L. Kirkpatrick wrote: This is a little bit of an esoteric question but: Do you sharpen your irons before you start the days work or before youput theplane back in the tool box at the end of the session? Just curious. Guys;Am I the only one that uses a plane with a grooved sole? I sharpen mybladeonce per rod. I have 2 blades and use one in a regular Stanley block planeto rough in the strips and use the other in the 9 1/2 to finish plane. Iget 18 strips out of each blade per step and never feel the need to do anymore sharpening than that, the last strip gives that good zippppp soundalmost as well as the first one. Of course, my blade never touches theform, it only cuts cane, I am convinced that it is the best way to go.John p.s. I do use the original Stanley blade to scrape the last .001 or 2 off,but I only take the burr off and roll a new one on it every 2 or 3 rods. from maxs@geocities.co.jp Tue Sep 7 06:37:55 1999 bysv01.geocities.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W) with ESMTP id UAA08815; Tue, 7Sep 1999 20:37:50+0900 (JST) mail.geocities.co.jp(1.3G-GeocitiesJ-3.1) with SMTP id UAA10150; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 20:37:49+0900 (JST) Subject: RE: Varnish, First Rod Hello Darryl, I am glad to discuss with you on the list again. Max writes,When I used purchased poly without thinning it, upper part was alrightbutthe bottom part became alittle too thick. I thought it was because the drain rate will slowdowninthe course of draining.(as the weight of poly gets less, then gravity gets less) One interesting thing about dip rates (or drain rates) is that the slowertherate the thinner the coat. If you drain faster or withdraw the rod from adiptube faster the coat will be thicker (viscosity of the varnish remainingconstant).This is because the varnish doesn't have as much time to flow off the rodwitha fast rate. Prove it to yourself by dipping a rod and hand pulling it outata quick rate. I mean something like 30 sec. for the whole section. Look atthe thickness of the coat. And to answer Tony's question, yes I do thinmyvarnish. How much depends on the varnish you use and the rate ofdraining. Your post may be true while changing the speed of draining under the samecondition of using rather thin poly is used. Do you think the theory is the same when you use high viscositypolyurethane?As I did not experiment several cases, I should restate my experience asfollows so far; When I used poly whithout thinning, the bottom part of butt section(tipside) had thickerfinish than upper part. This is the fact. Max from saltwein@swbell.net Tue Sep 7 07:20:23 1999 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7)with ESMTP id for Subject: Re: When do you sharpen? Like John, I sharpen once per rod. I use three planes. One that is notgrooved planingand a stanley 9-1/2 with a hock blade for final planing. I am zipppppped with all planing except the roughing, where I am reallyhoggingoff material. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Tue Sep 7 11:09:51 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Subject: Stuck reel seat Friends,I'm re-doing an old rod for a friend - one of those jobs you wouldnever take if you expected to be paid for it. Problem # 1 is, thedownlocking screw aluminum reel seat is corroded so badly that I can'tbegin to turn it. Got any suggestions, or should I cut the thing offand start with a new one? Harry from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Sep 7 12:28:20 1999 Subject: RE: Varnish, First Rod In a message dated Tue, 7 Sep 1999 7:39:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time,"Maxrodcraft"writes: When I used poly whithout thinning, the bottom part of butt section(tipside) had thickerfinish than upper part. This is the fact. Max That's never happened with me. Must be the differencein thinned and unthinned varnish.Darryl from watson@cape-consult.co.uk Tue Sep 7 12:58:15 1999 (BST) Subject: Allcock's Lucky Strike boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BEF962.DA81BF40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BEF962.DA81BF40 Anyone got the taper for one of these?ThanksTim. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BEF962.DA81BF40 Anyone got the taper for one these?ThanksTim. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BEF962.DA81BF40-- from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Tue Sep 7 13:14:29 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:14:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Stuck reel seat Sorry Darrell, not going to make the trip to Pennsylvania, but please sendthe group the best wishes of the Southern Rodmakers group. Harry Darrell Lee wrote: Get out the Dremel and cut! See ya in Pennsylvania at the gathering this weekend! I hope the directions arrive in the mail today Tom W.... I leave tomm. amflight... Darrellwww.BambooRods.homepage.com -----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd Date: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 9:14 AMSubject: Stuck reel seat Friends,I'm re-doing an old rod for a friend - one of those jobs you wouldnever take if you expected to be paid for it. Problem # 1 is, thedownlocking screw aluminum reel seat is corroded so badly that I can'tbegin to turn it. Got any suggestions, or should I cut the thing offand start with a new one? Harry from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Sep 7 13:35:22 1999 Subject: Re: Varnish, First Rod In a message dated Mon, 6 Sep 1999 3:37:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time,Tony Speziowrites: Can youtell me if I would get a decent finish on thewraps if I just put the rod in thetube without any varnish on wraps and let it sit Would the wraps look under varnished or rough. Iknow I can run tests to determinethis but I am a little short on time right now. The times I have dipped without varnishing thewraps first I have had bubbles under the wraps,especially in that little gap under the threadand right next to the guide feet. And usually you have to put a couple coats of varnish over your wraps after dipping anyway, so in my opinionvarnishing before dipping is the way to go. good with an already wrapped rod uless you havea see through tube, since you need to pause justwhen a guide clears the varnish or get a run.Darryl from tripp@olywa.net Tue Sep 7 15:19:46 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-56662U5000L500S0V35)with SMTP id net for ;Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:19:06 -0700 Subject: High Temp Wire For Oven boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01BEF9FC.656EFD40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BEF9FC.656EFD40 I recently got my strip heater and thermostat from Grand Technologies. =Thinking that I could get the wire needed from a local appliance repair =shop I did not order it with the unit. Turns out, the only wire I can =find locally is rated to 125 celsius (257 fahrenheit). Has anybody =found a higher rated wire at a local shop, or is this what people are =using? Thanks in advance, Mark ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BEF9FC.656EFD40 I recently got my strip heater and = = only wire I can find locally is rated to 125 celsius (257 = anybody found a higher rated wire at a local shop, or is this what = using? Thanks in advance, Mark ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BEF9FC.656EFD40-- from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Sep 7 15:45:13 1999 Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:51:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Varnish, First Rod Thanks for the reply.I figured I might get some bubbles if I dipped the wraps dry. I waswondering aboutputting on enough varnish to soakthe wraps and dipping while the wrap varnish is still wet.My drain tube set up is a clear tube 1 1/2" in diameter. I used a florescenttubeprotector and marked it for 4'intervals. The valve is a drain petcock that can regulate the flow. I did thetipsection yesterday and am verypleased with the results on the stick. The wraps were not too smooth tobegin with dueto balling up when sanding.That was three months ago. The varnish being felt dry at the time but wasstill soft. will be thinned 10%. I will have a gift rod to dip soon so I would like toget smootherfinish on the wraps. Itoccurred to me that the wraps looking heavy may be due to using "A"thread. Any thoughtson this.SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated Mon, 6 Sep 1999 3:37:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time,Tony Speziowrites: Can youtell me if I would get a decent finish on thewraps if I just put the rod in thetube without any varnish on wraps and let it sit Would the wraps look under varnished or rough. Iknow I can run tests to determinethis but I am a little short on time right now. The times I have dipped without varnishing thewraps first I have had bubbles under the wraps,especially in that little gap under the threadand right next to the guide feet. And usuallyyou have to put a couple coats of varnish overyour wraps after dipping anyway, so in my opinionvarnishing before dipping is the way to go. good with an already wrapped rod uless you havea see through tube, since you need to pause justwhen a guide clears the varnish or get a run.Darryl from rambo2_98@yahoo.com Tue Sep 7 15:49:29 1999 1999 13:50:29 PDT Subject: Re: High Temp Wire For Oven Mark: You need silicon wiring. The type I use is typicallyrated to 200* C (392* F). It's the same 'type' ofwiring used in your house oven and toaster. I've usedit for the ovens that I've built and it's just fine. An electrical supply house should have it. Jeff --- "Mark A. Tripp" wrote:I recently got my strip heater and thermostat fromGrand Technologies. Thinking that I could get thewire needed from a local appliance repair shop I didnot order it with the unit. Turns out, the onlywire I can find locally is rated to 125 celsius (257fahrenheit). Has anybody found a higher rated wireat a local shop, or is this what people are using? Thanks in advance, Mark __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from channer@hubwest.com Tue Sep 7 18:29:47 1999 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A04013BC00FE; Tue, 07 Sep 1999 17:31:12 MST Subject: Re: Varnish, First Rod At 03:44 PM 09/07/1999 -0500, Tony Spezio wrote:Thanks for the reply.I figured I might get some bubbles if I dipped the wraps dry. I waswondering about putting on enough varnish to soakthe wraps and dipping while the wrap varnish is still wet.My drain tube set up is a clear tube 1 1/2" in diameter. I used aflorescent tube protector and marked it for 4'intervals. The valve is a drain petcock that can regulate the flow. I didthe tip section yesterday and am verypleased with the results on the stick. The wraps were not too smooth tobegin with due to balling up when sanding.That was three months ago. The varnish being felt dry at the time butwasstill soft. For the next coat, the varnishwill be thinned 10%. I will have a gift rod to dip soon so I would like toget smoother finish on the wraps. Itoccurred to me that the wraps looking heavy may be due to using "A"thread. Any thoughts on this. Tony;Size A is definitely part of the problem, so is varnishing first thenwrapping. If you want to make your wraps look as small as possible, use3/0or finer thread, put 2 or 3 coats of varnish on them, then dip the rod.Dipping after you wrap will make the varnish flow over the wrap andbecomepart of the varnish coats. Be prepared to break a lot of thread until youget the hand of it, 3/0 is pretty fine compared to A.John from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Sep 7 21:10:05 1999 Tue, 7 Sep 1999 21:16:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Varnish, First Rod John,Thanks for the reply.I guess you mean 3/0 unwaxed thread. I use some 3/0 in flytying but verylittleof it. I tie mostly with 8/0 and 10/0. Is there a 3/0 a wrapping thread. Idon't think I want to tackle silk, I used to tie with it years ago. I havesome2/0 wrapping thread that I might try.Thanks againTony channer wrote: At 03:44 PM 09/07/1999 -0500, Tony Spezio wrote:Thanks for the reply.I figured I might get some bubbles if I dipped the wraps dry. I waswondering about putting on enough varnish to soakthe wraps and dipping while the wrap varnish is still wet.My drain tube set up is a clear tube 1 1/2" in diameter. I used aflorescent tube protector and marked it for 4'intervals. The valve is a drain petcock that can regulate the flow. I didthe tip section yesterday and am verypleased with the results on the stick. The wraps were not too smooth tobegin with due to balling up when sanding.That was three months ago. The varnish being felt dry at the time butwasstill soft. For the next coat, the varnishwill be thinned 10%. I will have a gift rod to dip soon so I would like toget smoother finish on the wraps. Itoccurred to me that the wraps looking heavy may be due to using "A"thread. Any thoughts on this. Tony;Size A is definitely part of the problem, so is varnishing first thenwrapping. If you want to make your wraps look as small as possible, use3/0or finer thread, put 2 or 3 coats of varnish on them, then dip the rod.Dipping after you wrap will make the varnish flow over the wrap andbecomepart of the varnish coats. Be prepared to break a lot of thread until youget the hand of it, 3/0 is pretty fine compared to A.John from irish-george@pacbell.net Wed Sep 8 00:14:32 1999 Subject: Re: Stuck reel seat If it is aluminum and corroded that means that any anodizing is gone. So,if you clean it up (and don't anodize it) it'll just happen again. Unlessit has historical or sentimental significance, chuck it. If you do want tosave it, you'll have to remove it and re-anodize it (even clear anodizing).The same company that makes C-L-R (any hardware store) makes analuminumcleaner. You might want to refer to the info athttp://www.caswellplating.com to see what is involved in anodizing andanysuggested cleaning methods. George Bourke -----Original Message----- Subject: Stuck reel seat Friends,I'm re-doing an old rod for a friend - one of those jobs you wouldnever take if you expected to be paid for it. Problem # 1 is, thedownlocking screw aluminum reel seat is corroded so badly that I can'tbegin to turn it. Got any suggestions, or should I cut the thing offand start with a new one? Harry from Sean.Els@intl.bidlog.co.za Wed Sep 8 00:40:55 1999 (SAST) Subject: Queries Hi there. I've been a avid fly fisher for approx. four years but it was only twomonths ago that I first came into contact with a cane rod and immediatelyfell in love.Over here in South Africa cane rods is relatively unknown so when I heardabout the list I jumped at the opportunity to join. I must admit that halfof the time I don't have a clue as to what you're talking about but what Ican follow I find damn interesting.I would really like to try my hand at crafting a rod myself but like I saidI'm a total rookie at this.Q1 What kind of bamboo is most suitable for a rod ?Q2 What I have in mind is a rod of between 6" & 7" and somewhere in the 2 to 4 weight range. Could someone perhapssupply a taper for a rod within this range.Thanks in advanceGreetings from sunny SA Sean ElsHome : +2712 546 7022Work : +2712 529 6790Fax : +2712 529 6888 from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Wed Sep 8 01:35:28 1999 (5.5.2448.0) "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Subject: RE: Queries Hi Sean,welcome to the list. Don't worry if a lot of it sounds likegobbledegook at the moment, the mists clear pretty quickly and there areplenty of people on the list who are only too happy to help out with hintsand advice. "The Lovely Reed", or George Maurer's "Fundamentals of Building a BambooFly Rod". My personal preference is for Howells book. Both of these areavailable through Amazon.com and give clear step by step instructionsfromwhoa to go. Wayne Cattenach also has a book called "Handcrafting aBambooFly Rod" which is available through Anglers Workshop and well worth thepurchase price. All of these books contain lists of tapers and suppliers nodeless construction, but that is a dark and arcane pursuit, compared bysome with Satanism.Whatever path you choose to follow I guarantee you'll enjoy theexperience. My second rod (nodeless parabolic) is almost finished and Icansafely say that I haven't had this much fun since the Christmas morningsofchildhood. Good luck Mike ps. If you see or hear the words "Nodeless Parabolic" at anystage, follow these instructions.1) Plug your ears2) Cover your eyes3) Hide under your bed until the bogey man (who travelsunder the alias of Tony Young)is gone. If you don't do these things I won't accept anyresponsibility for your inevitable turn to the dark side. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Sep 8 05:16:43 1999 Subject: New email address test I've changed my email address as well as home page URL.Could anybody interested alter their records. Thanks and sorry for this meaasage Tony/*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Sep 8 05:27:14 1999 Subject: test sorry./*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html /*************************************************************************/ from ralph.shuey@redstone.army.mil Wed Sep 8 08:09:24 1999 1.redstone.army.mil "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Subject: RE: Queries Sean, You have a compatriot in South Africa that can help. LourensAckermannlives in J'burg and his e-mail address is lourens@sn.apc.org. I own one of his rods and he does a goodjob. from my conversations with Lourens the major problem in SA seems tobe thepurchase of components. Ralph Shuey Huntsville, AL (The Sunny South)-----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 8:21 AM Subject: Queries Hi there. I've been a avid fly fisher for approx. four years but it wasonly twomonths ago that I first came into contact with a cane rod andimmediatelyfell in love.Over here in South Africa cane rods is relatively unknown sowhen I heardabout the list I jumped at the opportunity to join. I must admitthat halfof the time I don't have a clue as to what you're talking aboutbut what Ican follow I find damn interesting.I would really like to try my hand at crafting a rod myself butlike I saidI'm a total rookie at this.Q1 What kind of bamboo is most suitable for a rod ?Q2 What I have in mind is a rod of between 6" & 7" and somewhere in the 2 to 4 weight range. Could someoneperhapssupply a taper for a rod within this range.Thanks in advanceGreetings from sunny SA Sean ElsHome : +2712 546 7022Work : +2712 529 6790Fax : +2712 529 6888 from eestlow@srminc.com Wed Sep 8 08:31:41 1999 Subject: Re: Queries 1999) at 09/08/9908:26:02 AM Sean, If you haven't already found it, Jerry Foster's Rodmakers website will getyou a long way: http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm Enjoy! Best,-Ed Sean Els Sent by: cc:owner-rodmakers@wugate Subject: Queries.wustl.edu 09/07/99 07:21 AMPlease respond toSean.Els Hi there. I've been a avid fly fisher for approx. four years but it was only twomonths ago that I first came into contact with a cane rod and immediatelyfell in love.Over here in South Africa cane rods is relatively unknown so when I heardabout the list I jumped at the opportunity to join. I must admit that halfof the time I don't have a clue as to what you're talking about but what Ican follow I find damn interesting.I would really like to try my hand at crafting a rod myself but like IsaidI'm a total rookie at this.Q1 What kind of bamboo is most suitable for a rod ?Q2 What I have in mind is a rod of between 6" & 7" andsomewhere in the 2 to 4 weight range. Could someone perhapssupply a taper for a rod within this range.Thanks in advanceGreetings from sunny SA Sean ElsHome : +2712 546 7022Work : +2712 529 6790Fax : +2712 529 6888 from eestlow@srminc.com Wed Sep 8 08:34:52 1999 Subject: Re: 5 Foot one piece fly rod 1999) at 09/08/9908:29:13 AM Darryl, Was that a tease? Will we ever see the taper? Is this a one-piece editionof the fabled & promised "flea" version of the Sir D? ??? Best,-Ed SalarFly@aol.com owner-rodmakers@wugate cc:.wustl.edu Subject: 5 Foot one piece fly rod 09/06/99 11:47 AMPlease respond toSalarFly Group,Sorry I have been off the list so long, I started a new job, andI had to get up to speed quickly. I also had some rods I hadto make, so I had little time to contribute to the list. I have been fishing the local streams more than usual so Ideveloped what I think is the perfect rod for the small brushovergrown creeks around here. A 5 ft. one piece fly rod.Keep im mind in usual use this rod has about 2 feet offly line out with a 12 ft. 7x leader. 15 feet will be to theother side of the stream. What makes this rod better than most short rods is thecareful application of the Cattanach Hinge. I kid you notwhen I say this rod roll casts as far as it regular casts,which is about 30 feet - it *is* a small rod. What line weight? It doesn't matter. Remember I said Iusually have only a couple of feet of fly line out. Flylinesare all about the same size for the first couple feet. I even found a rod tube for it - meant to be for a 10 ft. twopiece. Darryl from leroyt@involved.com Wed Sep 8 09:31:28 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61049U4500L450S0V35)with SMTP id com; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 07:30:52 -0700 Subject: Re: Stuck reel seat boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0039_01BEF9CD.140F1FE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BEF9CD.140F1FE0 Think would I would remove the old and start with a new reel seat. You =can get the old reel seat off by using heat, heat gun or immersing the =reel seat in boiling water. Good luck, Leroy........... ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BEF9CD.140F1FE0 =FF=FE=00==0D=00=0A==00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00T=00h=00i=00n=00k=00 ==00w=00o=00u=00l=00d=00 =00I=00 =00w=00o=00u=00l=00d=00 ==00r=00e=00m=00o=00v=00e=00 =00t=00h=00e=00 =00o=00l=00d=00 ==00a=00n=00d=00 =00=0D=00=0A==00s=00t=00a=00r=00t=00 =00w=00i=00t=00h=00 =00a=00=00n=00e=00w=00 ==00r=00e=00e=00l=00 =00s=00e=00a=00t=00.=00 =00Y=00o=00u=00 ==00c=00a=00n=00 =00g=00e=00t=00 =00t=00h=00e=00 =00o=00l=00d=00==00r=00e=00e=00l=00 =00s=00e=00a=00t=00 =00o=00f=00f=00=00b=00y=00 ==00u=00s=00i=00n=00g=00 =00h=00e=00a=00t=00,=00 =00=0D=00=0A==00h=00e=00a=00t=00 =00g=00u=00n=00 =00o=00r=00 ==00i=00m=00m=00e=00r=00s=00i=00n=00g=00 =00t=00h=00e=00 ==00r=00e=00e=00l=00 =00s=00e=00a=00t=00 =00i=00n=00 ==00b=00o=00i=00l=00i=00n=00g=00 =00w=00a=00t=00e=00r=00.=00 ==00G=00o=00o=00d=00 =00l=00u=00c=00k=00,=00 =00=0D=00=0A==00L=00e=00r=00o=00y=00.=00.=00.=00.=00.=00.=00.=00.=00.=00.=00.=00=00=00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00------ =_NextPart_000_0039_01BEF9CD.140F1FE0-- from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Wed Sep 8 12:46:53 1999 Subject: Re: Stuck reel seat Harry,This might be a good place to try that "Ed's Red" that someone mentioneda couple of weeks ago for stuck ferrules. I don't remember the formula,but it seems like it was equal parts of Mineral Spirits, AutomaticTransmission Fluid, Turpentine, and something else. I saved the formulaat home. I'm at work right now so I don't have access to it.Good LuckDick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net from goodaple@tcac.net Wed Sep 8 18:46:01 1999 Subject: Very slow list or is it down? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01BEF5A8.CF226040" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BEF5A8.CF226040 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BEF5A8.CF226040 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BEF5A8.CF226040-- from saweiss@flash.net Wed Sep 8 21:45:17 1999 Subject: para-15 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01BEFA3B.195EA4C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BEFA3B.195EA4C0 Paraholics,Does any one have comments about comparing the PHY para-15 with =Wayne's 8' 6-wt. "The Force"? I graphed them and the two tapers are very =similar, with Wayne' seemingly a smoothed -out version of the Young =taper. Comments, Wayne?Also, any comments on the practicality of the heavy tip for the =Para-15 for all-around use?I just taped on the guides on a Cattanach 7' 3-wt. and tested it =today. It casts a DT-3 very well from 10 feet out to at least 50 feet. I =didn't push it at all. I hope the wraps and a few coats of spar don't =change the action. I am intending to put the rod out for sale at a local =flyshop but I'm at risk of liking it too much. Steve Weiss ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BEFA3B.195EA4C0 Paraholics, have = about comparing the PHY para-15 with Wayne's 8' 6-wt. "The Force"? I = them and the two tapers are very similar, with Wayne' seemingly a = version of the Young taper. Comments, Wayne? practicality of the heavy tip for the Para-15 for all-around =use? on = 10 feet out to at least 50 feet. I didn't push it at all. I hope the = few coats of spar don't change the action. I am intending to put the rod = sale at a local flyshop but I'm at risk of liking it too =much. Weiss ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BEFA3B.195EA4C0-- from cattanac@wmis.net Wed Sep 8 22:37:15 1999 0000 Subject: Re: para-15 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01BEFA53.B302FE60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BEFA53.B302FE60 Steve and Everyone example - the Force is the para 15 with the tips blended together - from =the original taper the dimension of the dry fly tip were added to the =tip dimensions of the wet tip and the numbers divided by two.As far as how it casts - well - even I - a guy that can't cast worth =a s... - can get out about 110' of #6 line - or you can throw.....alot =of bug into a very stiff wind.On the 7' #3 - hopefully with the guides and varnish in tack - the =rod should cast 'leader only' to about 45' - which is a lot further than =the stream for which it was designed will allow - in case you are =interested - at my site - if you look under the gallery - streams - =Jordan. The photo is taken looking down stream at the juncture of =Section 13 creek and the Jordan river -where it is deemed as the only =proper rod to fish - I have shared this section of stream with many that =have trekked to Grayrock - I will let others comment on their joyous =adventures with it - fortunately the river is falling with enough =gradiant that the light roar masks any 'profound utterances' Wayne ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BEFA53.B302FE60 Steve and Everyone = have created nothing - said example - the Force is the para 15 with the = = = or you can throw.....alot of bug into a very stiff wind. the = and varnish in tack - the rod should cast 'leader only' to about 45' - = streams - Jordan. The photo is taken looking down stream at the juncture= Section 13 creek and the Jordan river -where it is deemed as the only = to fish - I have shared this section of stream with many that have = fortunately the river is falling with enough gradiant that the light = any 'profound utterances' Wayne ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BEFA53.B302FE60-- from jik@foxinternet.net Wed Sep 8 22:37:46 1999 Subject: NOOOOOOO!!!! Were are the tapers???? I just went to rodmakers and got a 404 in the archive so I went to the crosswinds directory and it looks like everysingle taper is GONE! I just got my bamboo and was getting ready tostart splitting and wanted to look up the AJ Thramer 444 and itsnon-existant now. Anyone got a copy please please? from jik@foxinternet.net Thu Sep 9 01:10:47 1999 Subject: first day....good/bad/very ugly Well, for a second there I thought I was going to be somewhat good atthis...but only for a second. As it says in the Garrison book, Ifiled down a stuby screwdriver for the splitting tool. I was able tomake the fist split down the halfs just fine. I also made a couple of more splits that went well, but then stuff started twisting on me, and the bamboo seemed to REALLY want to split to the outside...which Iwasn't able to prevent. I think I still have enough after making the6 sections on this small piece (not quite half the culm...one 1 inch sectionwas already splintered so I put it in the scap pile) to make the 444which I decided would be my first attempt...it seemed to fit thematerial available. I also took off a large chunk of one of myfingers...which rather hurt.... I am still full on into this even though I am starting off ratherrocky it seems, but I need some info before I continue with the nextsplits...I am done for now on this rod...just hope what I have isuseable... that your supposed to put more pressure on one side, but I don'tremember which side...and I couldn't seem to really make that workanyway. Second....the bamboo did not split sraight through butinstead did something like this.... _____/ /----- or worse.... ______/ \---------- And __\/\ It just seemed to spindle up as I neared the far end and causes thesecrossections. BTW, Golden Witch seemed to do me good. I bought 2 B and 1 A-...theA- is pretty nice, though to a perfectionist which I am not *yet* itmight seem to blemished. I think the B grade is entirely useable aswell. Some spots and stuff, but mostly cosmetic. There are somesplits I have to work with...especially in the B. Not sure if thatwas cause by the freight, me (I picked up the 3 12' culms on my peddle bike 6 miles from home....there were times when I was a bit rough Ithink), or if they came that way. I still think they are a gooddeal, he was pretty helpful too. from channer@hubwest.com Thu Sep 9 02:13:49 1999 (SMTPD32-4.06) id AEA41AA40126; Thu, 09 Sep 1999 01:15:48 MST Subject: Re: first day....good/bad/very ugly At 11:10 PM 09/08/1999 -0700, Noah Roberts (jik-) wrote:Well, for a second there I thought I was going to be somewhat good atthis...but only for a second. As it says in the Garrison book, Ifiled down a stuby screwdriver for the splitting tool. I was able tomake the fist split down the halfs just fine. I also made a couple of more splits that went well, but then stuff started twisting on me, and the bamboo seemed to REALLY want to split to the outside...which Iwasn't able to prevent. I think I still have enough after making the6 sections on this small piece (not quite half the culm...one 1 inch sectionwas already splintered so I put it in the scap pile) to make the 444which I decided would be my first attempt...it seemed to fit thematerial available. I also took off a large chunk of one of myfingers...which rather hurt.... I am still full on into this even though I am starting off ratherrocky it seems, but I need some info before I continue with the nextsplits...I am done for now on this rod...just hope what I have isuseable... that your supposed to put more pressure on one side, but I don'tremember which side...and I couldn't seem to really make that workanyway. Second....the bamboo did not split sraight through butinstead did something like this.... _____/ /----- or worse.... ______/ \---------- Noah;Drive the tool straight into the bamboo and make sure the blade of thescrewdriver is in line with the piece. If the split starts to wander offtothe side, push the fat side into the blade. It makes it easier to do thisif you use a board under the cane and drive the screwdriver into it andthen push the bamboo into the screwdriver. Expect to ruin a lot of bamboountil you get the hang of it. I found that it helped me to lay out all thenodes and split back from the next node up to the one I had just splt.Also, it works better to keep splitting each piece in half, unequal sizesare a lot harder to split than equal sizes. There are some good articles onsplitting in The Best Of The Planing Form by Ron Barch.John from jik@foxinternet.net Thu Sep 9 03:42:59 1999 Subject: rough form The library loaned out my garrison book. I was going to make my rough forms tomarro, but forgot the angles I needed. I *think* it was 57and 30, but want to be sure. from maxs@geocities.co.jp Thu Sep 9 05:53:52 1999 bysv01.geocities.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W) with ESMTP id TAA23056; Thu, 9Sep 1999 19:53:46+0900 (JST) mail.geocities.co.jp(1.3G-GeocitiesJ-3.3) with SMTP id TAA16051; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:53:45+0900 (JST) Subject: RE: first day....good/bad/very ugly that your supposed to put more pressure on one side, but I don'tremember which side...and I couldn't seem to really make that workanyway. Second....the bamboo did not split sraight through butinstead did something like this.... Noah san, Though the experienced rod makers have each excellent splitting method,mostof themrequires experiences and practices. The method I introduce here is verybasic and for biginners. The required tools are a screw driver, a hummer and some wooden matt orathick book like telephone book.One important thing is that you need to try to split one piece of strip intotwo as much as possible.Creeping is caused by the difference of resistance from both side of asplitline.But there are such cases that you must separate one cane strip intothree, for instance, the first time you separate one cane into six pieces.This method is okey when you separate half a culm into three as each striphas enough width yet. Method: Draw a line on which you want to split from the backside of the cane(pithside) by pencil (while you are notaccustomed). from butt side, place the screw driver on the line and hit it by thehummeruntil you get a split line.This should be done on the matt. Hitting is always from pith side (notfromenamel side).Then place the screwdrive at the end of split line which you already have,and hit again.When your split line is going apart from the line you originally drawn,disregard the split line and placeyour screw driver on the drawn line, about 3~5 inch ahead.When you get closer to node, place your screwdriver at the near side of thenode and on the line.Hit and hit and hit until you get it splitted. Sometimes, split line goes without matching like you get two split linesclosely with having very thin strip in between. Do not warry about this.When you finally get apart the two major pieces of the strip, the thin partcan betaken out and it tends to run against the weakside, that means it getsthinner and thinner and finally separated.The remained major strips are alright and you will have similar squareareashapes. Please be careful not to hit your hand which holds a screwdriver.Screwdriver should be sharpen at the top. This is the method I used to use before I started using current splittingmethod which also need somepractices. My home page (English page) below has a tiny article on mysplitting method. If you are iterested,please visit. Max Maxrodcraft, an oriental bamboo fly rod crafterhome page:http://members.tripod.com/maxrodcraft from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Thu Sep 9 09:52:08 1999 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id JAA08893; Thu, 9 Sep1999 09:52:06 -0500 (8.8.4/8.6.8) with Subject: Re: NOOOOOOO!!!! I don't know about Jerry's website but I'm sure he'll get it straightened out soon. In the mean time you can go to http://www.uwm.edu/~stetzer/rma/rmsearch.htmland search on "Thramer" in the "Author" field and find the taperand the guide spacing and other interesting stuff.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot- warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Wed, 8 Sep 1999, Noah Roberts (jik-) wrote: Were are the tapers???? I just went to rodmakers and got a 404 in the archive so I went to the crosswinds directory and it looks like everysingle taper is GONE! I just got my bamboo and was getting ready tostart splitting and wanted to look up the AJ Thramer 444 and itsnon-existant now. Anyone got a copy please please? from Fishinstix@aol.com Thu Sep 9 10:17:20 1999 Subject: Andy Royer Does anybody know where Andy Royer has gone?His Email and fax do not work anymore. from andy@w-link.net Thu Sep 9 10:55:07 1999 Subject: Re: Andy Royer Still here. As far as I know, both email and fax (below) work fine. Regards, Andy RoyerThe Bamboo Brokerbamboo@w-link.net(206) 935-4414 ph(206) 935-5515 fax -----Original Message----- Subject: Andy Royer Does anybody know where Andy Royer has gone?His Email and fax do not work anymore. from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Thu Sep 9 13:32:00 1999 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id GAA10409; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 06:31:31 +1200 Subject: Re: rough form Noah, 57 and 30 is the precise angles for the rough form . It does not reallymatter if you are 60 and 30 at that point in the process. I think Jack Howells book , the lovely cane is an easier book for a newmaker then Garrision. You might try that at your library or if you buy abook it is probably the better buy first. Ian Kearney At 01:42 AM 9/09/99 -0700, Noah Roberts (jik-) wrote: The library loaned out my garrison book. I was going to make my rough forms tomarro, but forgot the angles I needed. I *think* it was 57and 30, but want to be sure. from lpiccoli@us.ibm.com Thu Sep 9 16:12:40 1999 RAA101956 1999)) id852567E7.007477A1 ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:12:08 -0400 Subject: Amateur assistance Hello,I am new to this News Group, and was hoping that I could ask theopinionsof all those more experienced than my self. I like to build custom rods ofanykind, but I know VERY little about Bamboo. I thought I might begin byrefinishing a few, inorder to get better aquatinted with the rods. Thatbeingsaid, I have the opportunity to purchase a Bamboo Rod made by Kiraku &Co., Inc.It is called a GRAMPUS. I was wondering if any of you are familiar withthe nameand quality of this manufacturer? Any assistance would be greatlyappreciated! The want to be Bamboo Flyrod builderLou from wgray@uidaho.edu Thu Sep 9 16:22:42 1999 OAA08052 SMTP; 9 Sep1999 21:31:44 UT Subject: Hoagy Carmichael revisited. FYI, The Wall Street Journal today (9-9-99) on page A24 has a nice 1/2 page article on Hoagy with comments from his son Hoagy Bix. This year (nov) marks the 100th anniversery of his birth. Wilson from flytyr@southshore.com Thu Sep 9 16:44:22 1999 Subject: Re: Varnish, First Rod I am going to try 2/0 on the next rod.ThanksTony SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated Tue, 7 Sep 1999 4:45:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time,Tony Speziowrites: Itoccurred to me that the wraps looking heavy may bedue to using "A" thread. Any thoughts on this. "A" thread is a little larger than I use. It mighthelp a little bit to use a thinner silk thread. Silktends to lay a little flatter than nylon. Darryl from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Sep 9 16:55:53 1999 15:03:20 PDT Subject: RE: Amateur assistance Lou, I don't know anything about the Grampus, but it sounds like it would serve the purpose of re-finishing for practice even if it isn't on the best seller list. You might also narrow your search to virtually any Granger, Wright & McGill Granger, Phillipson, Heddon, or one of the 300 seriesSouth Bend rods with the brushed chrome ferrules. Some of the catalogs and websites have "needs work" rods at a reduced price. These rods, if structurally sound, are usually well made, and therefore make the refinishing process a whole lot easier in the long run. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from joseus@lacapitalnet.com.ar Thu Sep 9 17:34:05 1999 Subject: presentacion : Amigos de la lista. Me llamo Alberto Jose Usman, vivo en Mar del Plataargentina ) Tengo 44 aos , mi esposa se llama Violeta, tengo tres hijos ,entre los 22 y 17 aos cada uno, hace poco soy miembro de la lista ysolamente me limitaba a leer sus mensajes, en este tiempo yo heconstruidola matriz para construir mi primer caa, nunca habia participado en lalistaporque no se escribir Ingles, pero incorpore a mi PC un traductor parapoderparticipar, les ruego sepan disculpar mi forma de escribir , tratare de serlo mas simple posible.1: Friends of the list. My name is Alberto JosÄ Usman, I live in Sea of theSilver (Argentinean) I am 44 years old, my she/he engages she/he callsVioleta, I have three children, between the 22 and 17 years each one,recently I am member of the list and it only limited me to read theirmessages, in this time I have built the womb to build my first cane, it hadnever participated in the list because you to not write Groins, butincorporate to my PC a translator to be able to participate, I request themthey know how to excuse my form of writing, I will try to be it but simplepossible. 2: Necesito saber quien puede venderme las caas de bambu de tomquin, ylaforma que puedo recibirlas aqui en argentina , y por medio de que bancopuedo hacer los pagos en dolares.Quedo a sus ordenes y estoy dispuesto acolaborar en la medida que pueda con la lista.les saludo cordialmente.2: I need to know who can sell me the canes of tomquin bamboo, and theformthat I can receive them here in Argentinean, and by means of that bank canmake the payments in dollars. I am to their you order and I am willing tocollaborate in the measure that she/he can with the list. I greet themcordially. 3: Alberto Jose Usman .- Mar del Plata .- Argentina.3: Alberto JosÄ Usman. - El Mar del Plata. - Argentina. from maxs@geocities.co.jp Thu Sep 9 17:58:45 1999 bysv01.geocities.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W) with ESMTP id HAA16673; Fri, 10Sep 1999 07:58:41+0900 (JST) mail.geocities.co.jp(1.3G-GeocitiesJ-3.3) with SMTP id HAA19112; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:58:38+0900 (JST) Subject: RE: Amateur assistance That beingsaid, I have the opportunity to purchase a Bamboo Rod made by Kiraku &Co.,Inc.It is called a GRAMPUS. I was wondering if any of you are familiar withthenameand quality of this manufacturer? Any assistance would be greatlyappreciated! The want to be Bamboo Flyrod builderLou Hello Lou san, I am one of Japanese rod crafters.I have a little bit information of Grampus rod of Kiraku as I investigatedto respond tothe request of some list members. Kiraku is the rod maker who had very agressively worked around afterWW2,andstill making bamboo rod now with the brand name of "Persist".They also make an excellent round bamboo fly rod which uses thin roundunsplitted bamboo canes.They are one of the originators of bamboo fly rod culture in Japan.Shitchirou Kitamura is the name of originator of Kiraku. While having fewmaterials afterthe war, they found that US soldiers would like to have bamboo fly rodmadein Japan due toits incredible low price and usable quality. Kitamura invented dualpurposerod called "Grampus".Grampus is a reversible rod which can be used as a 5-pieces-fly-rod andas a3-pieces- spinning-rod thepurpose between of cork grip to opposite side.As each section has 16.8 inches of length, it is very convenient to carry.It's a really neat rod.Just recently a contemporary famous rod maker started making a similartypeof dual purpose rod, I heard. When I interviewed many people and wrote an article of the history ofbamboofly rod in Japan for the BFRM(though the BFRM is not interested in publishing it yet), I took severalpictures of Grampus.If you are interested in looking at the picture of Grampus, I am glad tomail you one.Please contact me off the list. Max Max Rod Craft, an oriental bamboo fly rod crafterhome page:http://members.tripod.com/maxrodhttp://members.tripod.com/maxrodcraft from anglport@con2.com Thu Sep 9 19:02:58 1999 Subject: Re: Hoagy Carmichael revisited. Hello all from the land of PC-challenged ISPs,I have been on-and-of the list for at least 6 days while my serverscrewed around trying to figure out how to update their e-mail software.Ifanyone tried to get me during that time, PLEASE re-send the message as Ihave NOT taken a powder.Thanks,ArtPS: I'd also like to apologize if I sent any tests or submissions whichlooked weird, as they led me to believe erroneously that I had beenreconnected to the web several times during that period. PPS: I had to re-subscribe before the list would accept this message eventhough I got 20 something messages from it this afternoon!!!!!!!!! At 03:22 PM 09/09/1999 -0600, wgray@uidaho.edu wrote:FYI, The Wall Street Journal today (9-9-99) on page A24 has a nice 1/2 page article on Hoagy with comments from his son Hoagy Bix. This year (nov) marks the 100th anniversery of his birth. Wilson from BambooRods@aol.com Thu Sep 9 19:36:07 1999 Subject: Will be in Wa. & Oregon, Fishing info Needed I know this is off the subject but.... I will be flying into Portland, OR. next week and then up tp Wa. Dropping the better half off and will havethe whole time to fish. I've never been in the area before and would love for some suggestions on both areas and the fishing. My largest rod is a #6 soI don't know if the salmon are a great target but trout would be great! Thanks Doug HallDecatur, GA from flytyr@southshore.com Thu Sep 9 19:37:26 1999 Subject: Re: Amateur assistance Max,Was this rod one of the ones that came in a box with several flies , lineandleaders.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.comMaxrodcraft wrote: That beingsaid, I have the opportunity to purchase a Bamboo Rod made by Kiraku &Co.,Inc.It is called a GRAMPUS. I was wondering if any of you are familiar withthenameand quality of this manufacturer? Any assistance would be greatlyappreciated! The want to be Bamboo Flyrod builderLou Hello Lou san, I am one of Japanese rod crafters.I have a little bit information of Grampus rod of Kiraku as I investigatedto respond tothe request of some list members. Kiraku is the rod maker who had very agressively worked around afterWW2,andstill making bamboo rod now with the brand name of "Persist".They also make an excellent round bamboo fly rod which uses thin roundunsplitted bamboo canes.They are one of the originators of bamboo fly rod culture in Japan.Shitchirou Kitamura is the name of originator of Kiraku. While havingfewmaterials afterthe war, they found that US soldiers would like to have bamboo fly rodmadein Japan due toits incredible low price and usable quality. Kitamura invented dualpurposerod called "Grampus".Grampus is a reversible rod which can be used as a 5-pieces-fly-rod andas a3-pieces- spinning-rod thepurpose between of cork grip to opposite side.As each section has 16.8 inches of length, it is very convenient to carry.It's a really neat rod.Just recently a contemporary famous rod maker started making a similartypeof dual purpose rod, I heard. When I interviewed many people and wrote an article of the history ofbamboofly rod in Japan for the BFRM(though the BFRM is not interested in publishing it yet), I took severalpictures of Grampus.If you are interested in looking at the picture of Grampus, I am glad tomail you one.Please contact me off the list. Max Max Rod Craft, an oriental bamboo fly rod crafterhome page:http://members.tripod.com/maxrodhttp://members.tripod.com/maxrodcraft from briancreek@crosswinds.net Thu Sep 9 20:02:59 1999 (envelope- from briancreek@crosswinds.net) Subject: Heddon factory fresh components Hi y'all, A friend of mine just fell into a bunch of snake guides, hookkeepers, stripping guides, binding thread and winding silk (and probablynylon from the sound of it) from a lady whose mother was one of the lastHeddon employees down in Dowagiac. All the stuff is in new condition.He'll probably be selling it this fall on e-bay or something like that.If you are interested e-mail me and I'll forward your e-mail address tohim or let you know when the stuff goes up for sale. Standard "I'm not getting anything out of this deal" disclaimer applies. Brian from david.j.gilbertson@us.pwcglobal.com Thu Sep 9 20:30:55 1999 0400 (4.1) with SMTP id forrodmakers@mail.wustl.edu; intlnamsmtp10.us.pw.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.2 hotfix6 (702.3 8-27- 1998)) Subject: Re: rough form Noah, If you choose to purchase Jack Howell's book you may want to tryamazon.com. I purchased the book last week for US$35 where thesuggestedretail is US$50. I don't know what the shipping charges would be or ifAmazon delivers to international addresses -- as your e-mail addressindicates you reside in New Zealand.---------------------- Forwarded by David J Gilbertson/TAL/PriceWaterhouseon 09/09/99 06:45 PM --------------- ------------ Ian Kearney on 09/09/99 12:31:31 PM Please respond to iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Subject: Re: rough form Noah, 57 and 30 is the precise angles for the rough form . It does not reallymatter if you are 60 and 30 at that point in the process. I think Jack Howells book , the lovely cane is an easier book for a newmaker then Garrision. You might try that at your library or if you buy abook it is probably the better buy first. Ian Kearney At 01:42 AM 9/09/99 -0700, Noah Roberts (jik-) wrote: The library loaned out my garrison book. I was going to make my roughforms tomarro, but forgot the angles I needed. I *think* it was 57and 30, but want to be sure. ----------------------------------------------------------------The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity towhich it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privilegedmaterial. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, ortaking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons orentities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receivedthis in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from anycomputer. from EM11EM22@aol.com Fri Sep 10 00:41:03 1999 Subject: Bishop???? Could I please get an update with the vital statistics on the Bishop Gathering?Many thanks,Ed Miller from rambo2_98@yahoo.com Fri Sep 10 06:53:36 1999 1999 04:55:34 PDT Subject: Hoagy Carmichael Here's the text of an article about Hoagy Carmichael,that appeared in yesterday's Wall Street Journal. Little is said of his sons, one of which caused ChickCatalano to make the first push-pull planing form. ------------------------------------------------------- THE WALL STREET JOURNALCarmichael's Centenary Celebrations, The Man Behind'Stardust' Is Remembered Through Tributes and Concerts11, , By Tom NOLAN"YOU DON'T WRITE melodies," claimedpianist, singer and songwriter Hoagy Carmichael. "Youfind them. They lie there on the keys waiting foryou. " Seventy years ago, Hoagland Howard Carmichael, from Bloomington, Ind., found a melodythat enchanted the world; a hauntingly meandering,harmonically daring progression of notes that critic- composer Alec Wilder (in his definitive history"American Popular Song") judged "truly ... mostunusual and absolutely phenomenal for 1929." Themelody was titled "Star Dust" (later "Stardust"), andit is arguably the most recorded popular song of alltime, with well over 2,000 versions, including no- table hits by Artie Shaw, Louis Armstrong, WiJUeNelson and Natalie Cole. Hoagy Carmichael, in acareer that spanned two or three generations, wrote (or found) more than 600 other melodies, some nearlyas well known as "Stardust": "Georgia on My Mind,""Skylark," "Up a Lazy River," "Rockin' Chair,""Baltimore Oriole," "Heart and Soul," "The Nearness of You." His tunes (with lyrics by others andhimself) have been performed by seven decades of popand jazz artist from Paul Whiteman to John Coltrane, ftom Les Brown to James Brown, from Kate Smith tok.d. lang. 'Nineteen ninety-nine marks the 100th anniversary of the birth of Hoagy Hoagy Carmichael,whose songs often evoked the moods and details ofsmall-town America. But Carmichael, who died in 1981,had no nostalgia for the lean years of his Midwest- ern youth, says his oldest son, Hoagy Bix (middle-named after Bix Beiderbeeke, the legendaryjazz cornetist whom Carmichael knew and was inspiredby). "He didn't yearn for the olden days, I cantell you that," says Mr. Carmichael, who superviseshis father's musical estate from an office in NewYork City. "He'd had enough time in his life of beingpoor. Dad Fot lucky; he wrote this song that people But it was the songs this onetime- lawyer anduntrained musician wrote that mattered most to him,says his son, who grew up in the Holmby Hills sectionof Los Angeles: "He was a man who for the most parthad music very much in the center of hisconsciousness. It was all sorts of things for him. Henot only got to sing the stuff but play it in moviesand write it and act it, he'd have to do all thesedifferent kinds of disciplines. Dad was a music guyfirst; it's what he couldn't avoid. Myself and mybrother and mother-we were important parts to hislife, but we were in side doors. The corridor, thelong corridor, had a big tre- ble clef at the end ofit." All that ended for Hoagy Carmichael asabruptly as it began, says his son. "About 1959 or'60," Mr. Carmichael recalls, "he couldn't get a callback from record compa- nies or anybody; they were allgetting in- volved with rock 'n' roll, and they hadmoney coming in by the cartloads. In the '40s and'50s, Dad got all the adulation one human being couldtake; after that, the gates closed: bang. Dadessentially stopped when he was my age, 60 years old,because there was no outlet, he felt, no way 1937film, 'Topper'. It was pretty nice, pretty quick."Hoagy Carmichael, with his low-key informality and his composer and a recording artist, but also as a filmactor, radio and television performer, and memoirwriter. third-floor cold-water flat, he HoagyCarmichael to express himself. I think he was prettysoured by the experience." But while the musicbusiness neglected Hoagy Carmichael, musicians andlisten- ers never forgot those melodies. "Star- dust"has been used in scores of movies, from "StardustMemories" to "Malcolm X." Bette Midler made JohnnyCarson's last "Tonight" show memorable by singing him"Skylark." On the eve of the millennium, HoagyCarmichael remains an enduring figure in the historyof popu- lar music-in Alec Wilder's judgment, "themost talented, inventive, sophisti- cated, andjazz-oriented of all the great craftsmen" and "amongthe most signifi- cant innovators of the first half ofthe century. " Now, in his own centenary year,Carmichael's thoroughly American work is beingcelebrated by special events through- out the countryand in Europe. Da Capo Press recently reissued his twobooks of memoirs ("The Stardust Road" and "Some- timesI Wonder") in one volume. Singer James Naughton willpay tribute to Carmichael in two HollywoW Bowlconcerts on Sept. 10 and 11. On Sept. 22 SkitchHenderson will lead the New York Pops OrchesTHURSDAY,SEPTEMBER 9,1999 tra in a salute to the composerscheduled to include cabaret star and musicologistMichael Feinstein. And in a few months, the city'sYork Theater Company, as part of its "Musicals inMufti" series, will stage a reading of "I Walk WithMusic," the 1939 show Carmichael wrote with JohnnyMercer. In November, Carmichael's birth month,Indiana University will honor the Hoosier with aconcert by the Bloomington Pops Orchestra; BBC Radiowill broadcast a 90- minute Carmichael retrospective;and singer Barbara Lea and trumpeter- author DickSudhalter will perform a Hoagy tribute show for 10days in Germany. Mr. Sudhalter is at work on abiogra- 46 phy of Hoagy Carmichael to be published byOxford University Press next year., And Hoagy BixCarmichael says he and English playwright PeterNichols ("Na- tional Health," "Privates on Parade," "ADay in the Life of Joe Egg") are close to presentingan original musical incorpo- rating the best of HoagyCarmichael's songs. One way and another, thosetunes the pianist found hiding in the keyboard- alongwith the emotions ("hopes and fears and lots ofthings") they contained-have survived the oftenephemeral occasions that prompted their discovery. "Iremem- ber when Paramount was trying to keep BettyGrable, after 'The Greatest Show on Earth,"' says theyounger Carmichael, "and they sent Dad and Johnny[Mercer] down to Palm Springs for six weeks and saidthey had to come back with 12 songs. Well they did-some of which were kind of foolish and fun, and someof which were terrific, including 'My Resistance IsLow' and 'In the Cool Cool Cool of the Evening."' (Thelatter won the Academy Award for 1951.) Still, itwasn't quite as easy as Hoad Carmichael sometimes madeit seem, as his son can see: "Come on, it's hard work.But he was a talented man, and he had a gift."__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Fri Sep 10 09:18:57 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:18:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Varnish, First Rod Tony,Come on now, I've seen some of the microscopic woven body mayfliesyou tie. Youdon't honestly expect us tobelieve that you, of all people, will have a hard time with little tiny rod-windingthread, do you? :-)And if you need a little size 2/0 thread, let me know. I'm comingyour way nextweek and will be demo-ingrodmaking at the Oct 2&3 Conclave. I'll swap you some for one of thoserolls of jasperyou're hiding!!! Duckin' and runnin'!!Harry Tony Spezio wrote: I am going to try 2/0 on the next rod.ThanksTony SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated Tue, 7 Sep 1999 4:45:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time,Tony Speziowrites: Itoccurred to me that the wraps looking heavy may bedue to using "A" thread. Any thoughts on this. "A" thread is a little larger than I use. It mighthelp a little bit to use a thinner silk thread. Silktends to lay a little flatter than nylon. Darryl from mschaffer@mindspring.com Fri Sep 10 10:26:01 1999 Subject: Need help fast with a dumb question!! Guys,I'm in the process of wrapping the ferrules and guides on my first tomatostake and have only a couple ferrules left before I start on the guides. Myquestion is from where do I measure the distances for the positions of thevarious guides? To explain: Say the guide measurement is 10" from thetip.Does this mean from the end of the tip top or from the end of the caneinside the tip top? The next example is for a section from the femaleferrule towards the reel seat.Again using 10". Is the measurement from the open end of the femaleferrule,or from the end of the cane inside the female ferrule?I realize that this isn't rocket science, but I would at least like to be inthe neighborhood.If anyone could give me an answer fairly quickly I would REALLYappreciateit because right now I'm in the middle of wrapping and would like tocontinue now that I'm FINALLY this far along!! (G) Mike from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Fri Sep 10 16:52:05 1999 14:59:39 PDT Subject: RE: Need help fast with a dumb question!! Mike, Typically guide spacing designations are given in total inches from the tiptop. I measure from the tip of the ring. I usually calculate the difference in the next increment and measure from the center of the loopof the guide as I move down the rod. If your measurement lands on a ferrule you can mount the snake above or below at your discretion. I've seen them placed in either location on many rods, and on some Grangers/Phillipsons you will see a guide on either side of a ferrule area. Granger believed in the theory of placing a guide near the ferrule even if it made for a short space between guides in that area. If you are working with a two tip rod then standing the wrapped tip alongside the unwrapped tip and marking the ends of the wraps with apencil and then centering the guide will give you good results. Be sure the corresponding guides being used on the tip sections are equal in foot length and overall length for best results. You can also make a mental note to lead into a foot with 7 turns rather then 4 turns (for example) if one foot is minutely shorter then the corresponding foot. Mirror image wraps on the tip sections are apparently one standard the rodconnoisseur's look for when evaluating the quality of a finished rod. It has little to do with fishing, but I can understand a buyer's preference for matched wraps. If you are restoring a rod and want to return the guides to their original place I measure from the very end of whatever section I'm working withand between guides etc. Often the ghost marks make returning the guides to their exact location easy, but you can't rely on these marks always being easy to see, so should take measurements before removing the old wrapsand guides. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from joseus@lacapitalnet.com.ar Fri Sep 10 17:02:27 1999 Subject: Agradecimiento boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0078_01BEFBBD.46E8B880" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0078_01BEFBBD.46E8B880 : Friends of the list. I am thanked for for the welcome that you have =offered me, we will be in contact, receive all sincerely a greeting, =thank you for the addresses that sent me for me to be able to acquire =the culm,para to manufacture the canes. Alberto Jos=E9 Usman - Marcelo =T. of Alvear N=BA 154. - 7600 sea of the Silver. - Argentina. - email. - = ------=_NextPart_000_0078_01BEFBBD.46E8B880 : Friends of the list. I am thanked for = welcome that you have offered me, we will be in contact, receive all = greeting, thank you for the addresses that sent me for me to be able to = the culm,para to manufacture the canes. Alberto Jos=E9 Usman - Marcelo = joseus@lacapitalnet. com. ar ------=_NextPart_000_0078_01BEFBBD.46E8B880-- from flytyr@southshore.com Fri Sep 10 19:49:35 1999 Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:55:35 -0500 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Varnish, First Rod Ok Harry, Those sz 28 woven mayflies were tied by Skip Shorb and not me. I only tiethem in sz 14and 16. You would do most anything for that thread. Just kidding. I still have notlooked forit, you just don't remind meenough. I have one spool out and need another for Rick. I will be leaving forSalt LakeCity on Wednesday, doing theAFFTA Convention. I could use the thread when I get back on the 20 th. Ineed to finisha rod for my son in law that willbe here till September 29. I have it about ready to wrap. When will you behere. I canleave the spool for you at myhouse. If you have some 2/0 in green and some tan or light brown. I solvedthe problemwith the heavy wraps. Tried somefake steel wool on them and they smooth right up. Finished the rod withtwo more "draintube coats". I am pretty wellpleased with the results. Harry Boyd wrote: Tony,Come on now, I've seen some of the microscopic woven bodymayflies you tie.You don't honestly expect us tobelieve that you, of all people, will have a hard time with little tiny rod-windingthread, do you? :-)And if you need a little size 2/0 thread, let me know. I'm comingyour waynext week and will be demo-ingrodmaking at the Oct 2&3 Conclave. I'll swap you some for one of thoserolls ofjasper you're hiding!!! Duckin' and runnin'!!Harry Tony Spezio wrote: I am going to try 2/0 on the next rod.ThanksTony SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated Tue, 7 Sep 1999 4:45:28 PM Eastern DaylightTime, Tony Speziowrites: Itoccurred to me that the wraps looking heavy may bedue to using "A" thread. Any thoughts on this. "A" thread is a little larger than I use. It mighthelp a little bit to use a thinner silk thread. Silktends to lay a little flatter than nylon. Darryl from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sat Sep 11 04:17:59 1999 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP +0200 Subject: just a test boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEFC47.D04F7B60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEFC47.D04F7B60 Hello, anybody there? Carsten Jorgensen ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEFC47.D04F7B60 Hello, anybody there? Carsten Jorgensen ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEFC47.D04F7B60-- from maxs@geocities.co.jp Sat Sep 11 04:33:46 1999 bysv01.geocities.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W) with ESMTP id SAA26173; Sat, 11Sep 1999 18:33:41+0900 (JST) mail.geocities.co.jp(1.3G-GeocitiesJ-3.3) with SMTP id SAA27201; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 18:33:40+0900 (JST) Subject: Grampus Rod Max,Was this rod one of the ones that came in a box with several flies , lineandleaders.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tony, The rod you got in a box with several flies may be so called "De LuxeComplete Fishing Set".The Grampus rod I referred to is a different one. As both rods were theproducts ofKiraku, they might have been called by the same rod name probably. As I placed the picutures of both of Grampus (which I referred) and "DeLuxeComplete Fishing Set"(this also might be Grampus) at the URL on my HP, please refer it andremember the days. (^^) http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/all/eoverview.html P.S. I was born in 1946. MaxMax Rod Craft, an oriental rod crafteremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/maxrodcraft from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sat Sep 11 08:20:09 1999 (InterMail v4.0 201-221) with SMTP +0200 Subject: Re.: Anybody there? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEFC69.A359F5A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEFC69.A359F5A0 Thanx, friends, for answering mycall of distress. Thought You had alldisappeared into black nothingness. If You=B4ve got nothing else todo, trywww.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.htmland admire Tony Youngs beautifullbronze reel seats. Come to think of it,even if You have anything else to do,give=B4m a look. regards, Carsten Jorgensen ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEFC69.A359F5A0 Thanx, friends, for answering =mycall of distress. Thought You alldisappeared = nothingness. If You´ve got nothing else =todo, trywww.iinet.net.au/~a= admire Tony Youngs beautifullbronze reel seats. Come to think of it,even if You have anything else to do,give´m a look. regards, Carsten Jorgensen ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEFC69.A359F5A0-- from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Sep 11 09:50:08 1999 Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:56:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Grampus Rod Max,I guess I have the Deluxe set. It is in good condition.Thanks for the info.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Maxrodcraft wrote: Max,Was this rod one of the ones that came in a box with several flies , lineandleaders.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tony, The rod you got in a box with several flies may be so called "De LuxeComplete Fishing Set".The Grampus rod I referred to is a different one. As both rods were theproducts ofKiraku, they might have been called by the same rod name probably. As I placed the picutures of both of Grampus (which I referred) and "DeLuxeComplete Fishing Set"(this also might be Grampus) at the URL on my HP, please refer it andremember the days. (^^) http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/all/eoverview.html P.S. I was born in 1946. MaxMax Rod Craft, an oriental rod crafteremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/maxrodcraft from BambooRods@aol.com Sat Sep 11 10:04:33 1999 Subject: Re: Grampus Rod rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 9/11/99 5:34:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, maxs@geocities.co.jp writes: (^^) >> As a side note, I was looking thru Rivers of Memory by Harry Middletonlast night, and the rod carried in Starlight Creek and into some of his otherwork is a Grampus.Doug hall from Canerods@aol.com Sat Sep 11 11:52:52 1999 Subject: Re: Need help fast with a dumb question!! Mike, I measure from tiptop ring to the center of each snake's loop with an assembled rod (I do restorations) for measurements. All the way down tothe mid and butt. I'd lay out the sections for a new rod and measure from the tiptop to each guide location with a tape measure - then put a pencil mark on the cane the center of each guide. You can remove the pencil marks as you wrap. Many old production rods that I've worked on have pencil marks under the wraps. Don Burns from djk762@hotmail.com Sat Sep 11 12:48:13 1999 Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:47:39 PDT Subject: Soft varnish Rodmakers, I have an old rod with very soft varnish. I have been able to smooth the varnish with Brownell's rubbing compound, however the varnish remainssoft. The wraps are intact- is this the time for a varnish overcoat?Will the new varnish lay on the old soft stuff O.K.?Should varnish overcoats be thinned? ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sat Sep 11 21:53:50 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:53:39 -0500 Subject: restoration questions Friends,Three questions: First, how do you say "No" to the nice folkswho bring you Grandpa's rod and want you to restore it to like new for alittle bit of nothing??Question two relates to the first. I just reluctantly took inan 81/2' 3 piece rod to restore. Most of the decal is missing. What Ican read says, "Honor built - Honor..?" I can also see an "S". Thereis some hand lettering which I think says either " HI357-8 1/2' " or "41357-81/2' ". My educated guess is a South Bend???. Anyone want tosupply me with a little more information? The reel seat is aluminumover black plastic. The butt cap screwsup to hold the reel in place. Cork is reverse half-wells, both 1" and1/2" rings. Fairly small winding check for an old rod like this. Loopand ring hook-keeper. Wraps are blue tipped gold. Agate stripper.Can't tell about the ferrules, but I suspect they are nickel platedbrass. Each ferrule has a small line which looks almost knurled. Myguess is that it's swaged to keep the ferrule in place. The actualbamboo work is not bad, except for one place where three nodes meet onadjacent strips. There's only one tip, and it is short about 4.5"Any help in identifying this rod will be appreciated. Also, ifanyone has a correct tip taper, it would help me make the necessarysplice.Question three: What's a fair price for a restoration job on arod like this? Thanks in advance,Harry Boyd from saweiss@flash.net Sat Sep 11 22:58:02 1999 Subject: Re: restoration questions Harry,You explain all the reasons why it's not feasible, practical, orpossible.Restoration is very different from refinishing. To restore means allparts are as in the original, including silk. An undertaking like that maybe worthwhile on a Payne, but not on Horrocks-Ibbetson, which you maybedescribing. A reasonable refinishing job would make an old, low-end rodfishable or displayable, but you have to decide if it's worth your time andif you can get enough for the job. In the end you will still have an old,low-end production rod.A fair price, if you are going to make another tip and "restore" therod, would probably be $200+. After the work, the rod still would not beworth what it cost to restore.Good luck,Steve Friends,Three questions: First, how do you say "No" to the nice folkswho bring you Grandpa's rod and want you to restore it to like new for alittle bit of nothing??Question two relates to the first. I just reluctantly took inan 81/2' 3 piece rod to restore. Most of the decal is missing. What Ican read says, "Honor built - Honor..?" I can also see an "S". Thereis some hand lettering which I think says either " HI357-8 1/2' " or "41357-81/2' ". My educated guess is a South Bend???. Anyone want tosupply me with a little more information?The reel seat is aluminum over black plastic. The butt cap screwsup to hold the reel in place. Cork is reverse half-wells, both 1" and1/2" rings. Fairly small winding check for an old rod like this. Loopand ring hook-keeper. Wraps are blue tipped gold. Agate stripper.Can't tell about the ferrules, but I suspect they are nickel platedbrass. Each ferrule has a small line which looks almost knurled. Myguess is that it's swaged to keep the ferrule in place. The actualbamboo work is not bad, except for one place where three nodes meet onadjacent strips. There's only one tip, and it is short about 4.5"Any help in identifying this rod will be appreciated. Also, ifanyone has a correct tip taper, it would help me make the necessarysplice.Question three: What's a fair price for a restoration job on arod like this? Thanks in advance,Harry Boyd from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Sat Sep 11 23:09:10 1999 Subject: Re: restoration questions Hi, I believe that the Honor built-Honor Made" was Shakespere. They had acoupleof people make their rods for them including Heddon. Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: restoration questions Harry,You explain all the reasons why it's not feasible, practical, orpossible.Restoration is very different from refinishing. To restore means allparts are as in the original, including silk. An undertaking like that maybe worthwhile on a Payne, but not on Horrocks-Ibbetson, which you maybedescribing. A reasonable refinishing job would make an old, low-end rodfishable or displayable, but you have to decide if it's worth your timeandif you can get enough for the job. In the end you will still have an old,low-end production rod.A fair price, if you are going to make another tip and "restore" therod, would probably be $200+. After the work, the rod still would not beworth what it cost to restore.Good luck,Steve Friends,Three questions: First, how do you say "No" to the nice folkswho bring you Grandpa's rod and want you to restore it to like new for alittle bit of nothing??Question two relates to the first. I just reluctantly took inan 81/2' 3 piece rod to restore. Most of the decal is missing. What Ican read says, "Honor built - Honor..?" I can also see an "S". Thereis some hand lettering which I think says either " HI357-8 1/2' " or "41357-81/2' ". My educated guess is a South Bend???. Anyone want tosupply me with a little more information?The reel seat is aluminum over black plastic. The butt cap screwsup to hold the reel in place. Cork is reverse half-wells, both 1" and1/2" rings. Fairly small winding check for an old rod like this. Loopand ring hook-keeper. Wraps are blue tipped gold. Agate stripper.Can't tell about the ferrules, but I suspect they are nickel platedbrass. Each ferrule has a small line which looks almost knurled. Myguess is that it's swaged to keep the ferrule in place. The actualbamboo work is not bad, except for one place where three nodes meetonadjacent strips. There's only one tip, and it is short about 4.5"Any help in identifying this rod will be appreciated. Also, ifanyone has a correct tip taper, it would help me make the necessarysplice.Question three: What's a fair price for a restoration job on arod like this? Thanks in advance,Harry Boyd from darrelll@earthlink.net Sun Sep 12 00:17:01 1999 WAA27119; Subject: Re: restoration questions Harry, It's a Shakespeare made by South Bend... I'm visiting the PA Gathering... having fun... learning lots... a greatgroup of guys... Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com -----Original Message----- Subject: restoration questions Friends,Three questions: First, how do you say "No" to the nice folkswho bring you Grandpa's rod and want you to restore it to like new for alittle bit of nothing??Question two relates to the first. I just reluctantly took inan 81/2' 3 piece rod to restore. Most of the decal is missing. What Ican read says, "Honor built - Honor..?" I can also see an "S". Thereis some hand lettering which I think says either " HI357-8 1/2' " or "41357-81/2' ". My educated guess is a South Bend???. Anyone want tosupply me with a little more information?The reel seat is aluminum over black plastic. The butt cap screwsup to hold the reel in place. Cork is reverse half-wells, both 1" and1/2" rings. Fairly small winding check for an old rod like this. Loopand ring hook-keeper. Wraps are blue tipped gold. Agate stripper.Can't tell about the ferrules, but I suspect they are nickel platedbrass. Each ferrule has a small line which looks almost knurled. Myguess is that it's swaged to keep the ferrule in place. The actualbamboo work is not bad, except for one place where three nodes meet onadjacent strips. There's only one tip, and it is short about 4.5"Any help in identifying this rod will be appreciated. Also, ifanyone has a correct tip taper, it would help me make the necessarysplice.Question three: What's a fair price for a restoration job on arod like this? Thanks in advance,Harry Boyd from darrelll@earthlink.net Sun Sep 12 00:21:39 1999 WAA00746; Subject: Re: Bishop???? Check my site www.bamboorods.homepage.com goto calendar and events...I'mgone 3000 miles away and not much acess to phones to check messages orupdate the event, but I'll be back 9/25 and will do a big update re the GWgathering then... Darrell, ps also check with Chuck Irvine on the list...-----Original Message----- Subject: Bishop???? Could I please get an update with the vital statistics on the BishopGathering?Many thanks,Ed Miller from irish-george@pacbell.net Sun Sep 12 01:01:58 1999 Subject: Re: restoration questions Shakespeare...and the motto is "Honor Built, Honor Sold" (I have myShakespeare on my lap at this moment and am reading the decal.) George Bourke -----Original Message----- Subject: restoration questions Friends,Three questions: First, how do you say "No" to the nice folkswho bring you Grandpa's rod and want you to restore it to like new for alittle bit of nothing??Question two relates to the first. I just reluctantly took inan 81/2' 3 piece rod to restore. Most of the decal is missing. What Ican read says, "Honor built - Honor..?" I can also see an "S". Thereis some hand lettering which I think says either " HI357-8 1/2' " or "41357-81/2' ". My educated guess is a South Bend???. Anyone want tosupply me with a little more information?The reel seat is aluminum over black plastic. The butt cap screwsup to hold the reel in place. Cork is reverse half-wells, both 1" and1/2" rings. Fairly small winding check for an old rod like this. Loopand ring hook-keeper. Wraps are blue tipped gold. Agate stripper.Can't tell about the ferrules, but I suspect they are nickel platedbrass. Each ferrule has a small line which looks almost knurled. Myguess is that it's swaged to keep the ferrule in place. The actualbamboo work is not bad, except for one place where three nodes meet onadjacent strips. There's only one tip, and it is short about 4.5"Any help in identifying this rod will be appreciated. Also, ifanyone has a correct tip taper, it would help me make the necessarysplice.Question three: What's a fair price for a restoration job on arod like this? Thanks in advance,Harry Boyd from rafick@fwi.com Sun Sep 12 10:46:28 1999 Subject: bastard bamboo I received my happy hooker from bastard bamboo yesterday, would any onecareto see a product review sort of post ? RegardsRick R.A.Fick Bamboo Rod Co.The best rods are being made today.www.angelfire.com/in2/rafickrods/ from cattanac@wmis.net Sun Sep 12 11:04:35 1999 0000 Subject: Re: bastard bamboo Yes Rick - I would be interested in how our ol' buddy George is doing - Itrust your judgement well so pen away Wayne from rsgould@cmc.net Sun Sep 12 11:11:44 1999 Subject: Re: restoration questions Hi Harry,The rod you asked about is a Shakespeare rod made for them by the Southbend Co. The model 357 was an 8 1/2 ft x 3pc rod made in the early 40's. Idon't have the taper for that particular model but you could come closeenough by measuring up the existing tip section, graph it and extrapolatethe missing 4 1/2". A fair price for repairing and refinishing this rodwould be $150 if you have an old tip section you could cut and splice onand if the ferrules are all ok (typically cracked). If you have to make atip it would cost much more. It's not a valuable rod and you mightadvocate just refinishing (new guides, wraps and varnish for say $100)therod as is without splicing on the tip. Tell the customer that the rod willonly be worth $75.Ray ----------From: Harry Boyd Subject: restoration questionsDate: Saturday, September 11, 1999 7:54 PM Friends,Three questions: First, how do you say "No" to the nice folkswho bring you Grandpa's rod and want you to restore it to like new for alittle bit of nothing??Question two relates to the first. I just reluctantly took inan 81/2' 3 piece rod to restore. Most of the decal is missing. What Ican read says, "Honor built - Honor..?" I can also see an "S". Thereis some hand lettering which I think says either " HI357-8 1/2' " or "41357-81/2' ". My educated guess is a South Bend???. Anyone want tosupply me with a little more information?The reel seat is aluminum over black plastic. The butt cap screwsup to hold the reel in place. Cork is reverse half-wells, both 1" and1/2" rings. Fairly small winding check for an old rod like this. Loopand ring hook-keeper. Wraps are blue tipped gold. Agate stripper.Can't tell about the ferrules, but I suspect they are nickel platedbrass. Each ferrule has a small line which looks almost knurled. Myguess is that it's swaged to keep the ferrule in place. The actualbamboo work is not bad, except for one place where three nodes meet onadjacent strips. There's only one tip, and it is short about 4.5"Any help in identifying this rod will be appreciated. Also, ifanyone has a correct tip taper, it would help me make the necessarysplice.Question three: What's a fair price for a restoration job on arod like this? Thanks in advance,Harry Boyd from rafick@fwi.com Sun Sep 12 12:51:12 1999 Subject: bastard happy hooker The happy hooker arrived in a heavy cardboard shipping tube with a brushedaluminum rod tube inside, well protected with bubble wrap.The hardware used is of generally good quality, Bellinger DLSB cap&ringseat with a nice curly maple spacer,Cortland ferrules,bright nickel silver agateen stripper, eight blued snakeguides,and a 73/8" full wells grip.The cane is very light colored with a dark flamed mottled effect, with anumber of visible glue lines on par with some lower grade Heddons I haveseen, 10 to 15 thousandths flat to flat deviations are common.Wraps are black tipped with red, well done, but finished with a rathersloppy epoxy job.The butt section looks to have been varnished prior to wrapping and the tiplooks to not have been varnished at all, or maybe one thin coat, I cant tell The butt has a rather severe twist between the grip and stripper, and thetip is very crooked as well.This rod is 7'6" with the butt 46 3/4" and tip 44" ?I lawn cast a SA. WF 5 and WF 4 and it cast the 5 with authority,thats when the really major problem came to light, when I tried todisassemble the rod, the tip section pulled out of the male ferrule,taking half the wraps with it, not good.I would have taken the happy hooker with me tomorrow , for a few days offishing with guide extrodinare Frank Love, now I will return it.I think the rod has potential, its only no 14, I would like to see them getthe bugs out and do what companies like Heddon did many years ago, timewilltell. RegardsRick R.A.Fick Bamboo Rod Co.The best rods are being made today.www.angelfire.com/in2/rafickrods/ from stpete@netten.net Sun Sep 12 12:56:28 1999 Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:59:25 -0500 Subject: Bastard & Maker's Ethics Rick, I, too, would like to see a review of the Bastard. Please do so beforereading the rest of this post. I am interested in your perception of it's "lucky" marks and "good gluelines" so enthusiastically promoted by the maker after production gotunder way and costs were calculated. Furthermore, for the list, I'dlike to know the general concensus of opinions regarding a maker takinga known taper and renaming it and claiming it for himself. I saw onGG's site, that he had a template with "Dickerson" in the title. QUESTION: Is it ethical for a maker to use a known (if not famous)taper, claim it for his own by naming the rod in such a way that wouldlead buyers to believe it comes from his own calculations or trial anderror? I'll start it off by saying I think it is completely unethical and onlyserves to reveal the character of the maker. Though it certainly wouldbe legal to do this in this instance, I think that not giving credit tothe originator of the taper defines the company and the prinipalparticipants as being second rate. It would be an easy matter for GG togive credit, if only in one of the many postings and comments he makesin his diary on his website. If GG wants to claim credit for something,let it be for his efforts to make affordable rods available to thepublic. GG seems like a 'take sides' kind of guy. Either you are with him orag'in him. First there was to be no compromise on quality, and in fact,raged against a well known supplier of raw material who was for yearsthe ONLY source of the material. GG went so far as to accuse the guy ofsubstituting inferior materials for the ones being advertised. Now thathe has to deal with the purchase of such materials, he is ready to relaxhis standards to the point that flaws in the material are to beconsidered positive attributes. No retraction or apology has been madeto the long time supplier, again, defining who GG is. GG may end up making a decent and affordable cane rod, but let's behonest, I don't think he will go down as the 'savior' for the bambooenthusiasts. In fact, if you dig further into who GG is and what he represents, you may find he is quite the opposite. Rick C. R.A.Fick wrote: I received my happy hooker from bastard bamboo yesterday, would anyone careto see a product review sort of post ? RegardsRick R.A.Fick Bamboo Rod Co.The best rods are being made today.www.angelfire.com/in2/rafickrods/ from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Sun Sep 12 15:29:03 1999 Subject: Re: Bastard & Maker's Ethics Hi, I have been following Georges progress and talking with him about therodsboth by mail and on his chat site. As much as I'ld like to see him succeedeI suspect he'll self destruct. As for tapers, Take a look at some of his comments from his chat sitearchives. I don't think what his next rods use will have any resemblence toany known tapers. Rick, Did you happen to take measure the taper on the bastard rod? Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Bastard & Maker's Ethics [snip] from knflyrod@home.com Sun Sep 12 16:02:05 1999 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:02:01 -0700 Subject: Re: restoration questions Harry, I think i am a nice folk, but I don't think my dentist will do afilling for the cost of the silver. I know my auto mechanic will not fix myfuel pump for the price of a fuel pump. Normally a strip, rewrap, resetferrules, polish reelseat, etc. costs 150.00. The cost I have run intofor"splicing" a tip is $50-60. The customer will have a very nice 100.00rod. I would suggest clean-up, varnish the wraps, maybe a rewrap or two corner. About a year ago I was in the same situation. In my case itinvolved a reelseat too, total cost was 189.00 with new grip. I told mycustomer. "Do you really want to spend 189.00 and end up with a 100.00rod.He told me the rod was his uncles, who taught him to fish, to hunt and tolove the outdoors. If I had to charge hime 500.00, this is what he wanted.Two weeks later he went to Colorado, The first trout he caught was withthis rod. In his words, the 189.00 was the best money he had ever spent.-----Original Message----- Subject: restoration questions Friends,Three questions: First, how do you say "No" to the nice folkswho bring you Grandpa's rod and want you to restore it to like new for alittle bit of nothing??Question two relates to the first. I just reluctantly took inan 81/2' 3 piece rod to restore. Most of the decal is missing. What Ican read says, "Honor built - Honor..?" I can also see an "S". Thereis some hand lettering which I think says either " HI357-8 1/2' " or "41357-81/2' ". My educated guess is a South Bend???. Anyone want tosupply me with a little more information?The reel seat is aluminum over black plastic. The butt cap screwsup to hold the reel in place. Cork is reverse half-wells, both 1" and1/2" rings. Fairly small winding check for an old rod like this. Loopand ring hook-keeper. Wraps are blue tipped gold. Agate stripper.Can't tell about the ferrules, but I suspect they are nickel platedbrass. Each ferrule has a small line which looks almost knurled. Myguess is that it's swaged to keep the ferrule in place. The actualbamboo work is not bad, except for one place where three nodes meet onadjacent strips. There's only one tip, and it is short about 4.5"Any help in identifying this rod will be appreciated. Also, ifanyone has a correct tip taper, it would help me make the necessarysplice.Question three: What's a fair price for a restoration job on arod like this? Thanks in advance,Harry Boyd from rafick@fwi.com Sun Sep 12 16:33:00 1999 Subject: Re: Bastard & Maker's Ethics PMG No, I didn't measure the taper, just across the flats in several spotson each section to get an idea of the accuracy of their process, it 's nobetter than many other production rods.As for designing new tapers that resemble no others, is that evenpossible?there are only so many numbers available for a given line wt. rod length,no.of sections etc. I think that if one were to look hard enough you wouldfind tapers that resemble any " new " design.Maybe fifty years ago, not today. Rick R.A.Fick Bamboo Rod Co.The best rods are being made today.www.angelfire.com/in2/rafickrods/ from goodaple@tcac.net Sun Sep 12 17:55:38 1999 Subject: test only boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEF8C6.6C4AB140" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEF8C6.6C4AB140 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEF8C6.6C4AB140 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEF8C6.6C4AB140-- from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Sep 12 18:58:18 1999 Subject: Re: Hoagy Carmichael Perhaps most folk regard 'Georgia' and 'Stardust' a little morecreative than stealing an old geezers rod making equipment.Jeff Ramsey wrote: Here's the text of an article about Hoagy Carmichael,that appeared in yesterday's Wall Street Journal.Little is said of his sons, one of which caused ChickCatalano to make the first push-pull planing form. ------------------------------------------------------- THE WALL STREET JOURNALCarmichael's Centenary Celebrations, The Man Behind'Stardust' Is Remembered Through Tributes and Concerts11, , By Tom NOLAN"YOU DON'T WRITE melodies," claimedpianist, singer and songwriter Hoagy Carmichael. "Youfind them. They lie there on the keys waiting foryou. " Seventy years ago, Hoagland HowardCarmichael, from Bloomington, Ind., found a melodythat enchanted the world; a hauntingly meandering,harmonically daring progression of notes that critic- composer Alec Wilder (in his definitive history"American Popular Song") judged "truly ... mostunusual and absolutely phenomenal for 1929." Themelody was titled "Star Dust" (later "Stardust"), andit is arguably the most recorded popular song of alltime, with well over 2,000 versions, including no-table hits by Artie Shaw, Louis Armstrong, WiJUeNelson and Natalie Cole. Hoagy Carmichael, in acareer that spanned two or three generations, wrote(or found) more than 600 other melodies, some nearlyas well known as "Stardust": "Georgia on My Mind,""Skylark," "Up a Lazy River," "Rockin' Chair,""Baltimore Oriole," "Heart and Soul," "The Nearnessof You." His tunes (with lyrics by others andhimself) have been performed by seven decades of popand jazz artist from Paul Whiteman to John Coltrane,ftom Les Brown to James Brown, from Kate Smith tok.d. lang. 'Nineteen ninety-nine marks the 100thanniversary of the birth of Hoagy Hoagy Carmichael,whose songs often evoked the moods and details ofsmall-town America. But Carmichael, who died in 1981,had no nostalgia for the lean years of his Midwest-ern youth, says his oldest son, Hoagy Bix(middle-named after Bix Beiderbeeke, the legendaryjazz cornetist whom Carmichael knew and was inspiredby). "He didn't yearn for the olden days, I cantell you that," says Mr. Carmichael, who superviseshis father's musical estate from an office in NewYork City. "He'd had enough time in his life of beingpoor. Dad Fot lucky; he wrote this song that peopleBut it was the songs this onetime- lawyer anduntrained musician wrote that mattered most to him,says his son, who grew up in the Holmby Hills sectionof Los Angeles: "He was a man who for the most parthad music very much in the center of hisconsciousness. It was all sorts of things for him. Henot only got to sing the stuff but play it in moviesand write it and act it, he'd have to do all thesedifferent kinds of disciplines. Dad was a music guyfirst; it's what he couldn't avoid. Myself and mybrother and mother-we were important parts to hislife, but we were in side doors. The corridor, thelong corridor, had a big tre- ble clef at the end ofit." All that ended for Hoagy Carmichael asabruptly as it began, says his son. "About 1959 or'60," Mr. Carmichael recalls, "he couldn't get a callback from record compa- nies or anybody; they were allgetting in- volved with rock 'n' roll, and they hadmoney coming in by the cartloads. In the '40s and'50s, Dad got all the adulation one human being couldtake; after that, the gates closed: bang. Dadessentially stopped when he was my age, 60 years old,because there was no outlet, he felt, no way 1937film, 'Topper'. It was pretty nice, pretty quick."Hoagy Carmichael, with his low-key informality and his composer and a recording artist, but also as a filmactor, radio and television performer, and memoirwriter. third-floor cold-water flat, he HoagyCarmichael to express himself. I think he was prettysoured by the experience." But while the musicbusiness neglected Hoagy Carmichael, musicians andlisten- ers never forgot those melodies. "Star- dust"has been used in scores of movies, from "StardustMemories" to "Malcolm X." Bette Midler made JohnnyCarson's last "Tonight" show memorable by singing him"Skylark." On the eve of the millennium, HoagyCarmichael remains an enduring figure in the historyof popu- lar music-in Alec Wilder's judgment, "themost talented, inventive, sophisti- cated, andjazz-oriented of all the great craftsmen" and "amongthe most signifi- cant innovators of the first half ofthe century. " Now, in his own centenary year,Carmichael's thoroughly American work is beingcelebrated by special events through- out the countryand in Europe. Da Capo Press recently reissued his twobooks of memoirs ("The Stardust Road" and "Some- timesI Wonder") in one volume. Singer James Naughton willpay tribute to Carmichael in two HollywoW Bowlconcerts on Sept. 10 and 11. On Sept. 22 SkitchHenderson will lead the New York Pops OrchesTHURSDAY,SEPTEMBER 9,1999 tra in a salute to the composerscheduled to include cabaret star and musicologistMichael Feinstein. And in a few months, the city'sYork Theater Company, as part of its "Musicals inMufti" series, will stage a reading of "I Walk WithMusic," the 1939 show Carmichael wrote with JohnnyMercer. In November, Carmichael's birth month,Indiana University will honor the Hoosier with aconcert by the Bloomington Pops Orchestra; BBC Radiowill broadcast a 90- minute Carmichael retrospective;and singer Barbara Lea and trumpeter- author DickSudhalter will perform a Hoagy tribute show for 10days in Germany. Mr. Sudhalter is at work on abiogra- 46 phy of Hoagy Carmichael to be published byOxford University Press next year., And Hoagy BixCarmichael says he and English playwright PeterNichols ("Na- tional Health," "Privates on Parade," "ADay in the Life of Joe Egg") are close to presentingan original musical incorpo- rating the best of HoagyCarmichael's songs. One way and another, thosetunes the pianist found hiding in the keyboard- alongwith the emotions ("hopes and fears and lots ofthings") they contained-have survived the oftenephemeral occasions that prompted their discovery. "Iremem- ber when Paramount was trying to keep BettyGrable, after 'The Greatest Show on Earth,"' says theyounger Carmichael, "and they sent Dad and Johnny[Mercer] down to Palm Springs for six weeks and saidthey had to come back with 12 songs. Well they did-some of which were kind of foolish and fun, and someof which were terrific, including 'My Resistance IsLow' and 'In the Cool Cool Cool of the Evening."' (Thelatter won the Academy Award for 1951.) Still, itwasn't quite as easy as Hoad Carmichael sometimes madeit seem, as his son can see: "Come on, it's hard work.But he was a talented man, and he had a gift."__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from channer@hubwest.com Sun Sep 12 19:02:47 1999 (SMTPD32-4.06) id AFB36F0158; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:05:07 MST Subject: Re: Bastard & Maker's Ethics At 04:27 PM 09/12/1999 -0400, PMG wrote:Hi, I have been following Georges progress and talking with him about therodsboth by mail and on his chat site. As much as I'ld like to see him succeedeI suspect he'll self destruct. As for tapers, Take a look at some of his comments from his chat sitearchives. I don't think what his next rods use will have any resemblencetoany known tapers. Rick, Did you happen to take measure the taper on the bastard rod? Paul Paul;Why on earth would you want him to succeed????? He is a slap in the facetoevery other maker of bamboo fly rods that ever lived.As far as i amconcerned, George is the antithesis of everything that today's and most ofyesterday's rodmakers stand for. Read the history of his posts to ROFF andthe other usenet boards and you will get a good idea of where this guycomes from.John from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Sep 12 19:15:56 1999 Subject: Re: bastard happy hooker Remember that Heddon did not try to compete with the high end canebuildersthat George has decided that he should compete against.George should have built a few rods and then worked out a retail cost fromexperience rather than tying himself down to a price that was notprofitablewith the hardwear he wanted to provide.Terry "R.A.Fick" wrote: The happy hooker arrived in a heavy cardboard shipping tube with a brushedaluminum rod tube inside, well protected with bubble wrap.The hardware used is of generally good quality, Bellinger DLSB cap&ringseat with a nice curly maple spacer,Cortland ferrules,bright nickel silver agateen stripper, eight blued snakeguides,and a 73/8" full wells grip.The cane is very light colored with a dark flamed mottled effect, with anumber of visible glue lines on par with some lower grade Heddons I haveseen, 10 to 15 thousandths flat to flat deviations are common.Wraps are black tipped with red, well done, but finished with a rathersloppy epoxy job.The butt section looks to have been varnished prior to wrapping and thetiplooks to not have been varnished at all, or maybe one thin coat, I canttell The butt has a rather severe twist between the grip and stripper, and thetip is very crooked as well.This rod is 7'6" with the butt 46 3/4" and tip 44" ?I lawn cast a SA. WF 5 and WF 4 and it cast the 5 with authority,thats when the really major problem came to light, when I tried todisassemble the rod, the tip section pulled out of the male ferrule,taking half the wraps with it, not good.I would have taken the happy hooker with me tomorrow , for a few daysoffishing with guide extrodinare Frank Love, now I will return it.I think the rod has potential, its only no 14, I would like to see them getthe bugs out and do what companies like Heddon did many years ago, timewilltell. RegardsRick R.A.Fick Bamboo Rod Co.The best rods are being made today.www.angelfire.com/in2/rafickrods/ from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Sep 12 19:29:37 1999 Subject: Re: Bastard & Maker's Ethics Tapers are not the only criteria of a cane rod. There are are processes thatalso "make" a rod . I have a couple of 14 ft light salmon rods that are asstraight as when thaey were built 80 years ago.I do not think that any contemporary rod builder could make a 14 ft rodbecause most could not not constuct an 8 ft rod that looks straight.The best rods are not being built today, sorry.Terry. "R.A.Fick" wrote: PMG No, I didn't measure the taper, just across the flats in several spotson each section to get an idea of the accuracy of their process, it 's nobetter than many other production rods.As for designing new tapers that resemble no others, is that evenpossible?there are only so many numbers available for a given line wt. rod length,no.of sections etc. I think that if one were to look hard enough you wouldfind tapers that resemble any " new " design.Maybe fifty years ago, not today. Rick R.A.Fick Bamboo Rod Co.The best rods are being made today.www.angelfire.com/in2/rafickrods/ from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Sep 12 19:31:38 1999 Subject: Re: restoration questions rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Harry,The restoration or refinishing of rods becomes moot when the rod is alow end rod. I usually ask the owner if the sentimental value is worth the cost. I charge $60.00 / section to refinish and if new guides are needed or any splices made the cost goes up considerably. In the case of the rod you describe I would charge $180.00 for the refinish (more for a restoration)and a minimum of $25.00 for the splice. If ferrules need resetting orreplacing, cork needs to be redone, etc., the costs get out of hand quickly. As I'm trying to catch up with a waiting list I probably would turn the job overto someone else-I hate refinish work anyway.Just my $.02.Regards,Hank. from bkelley@columbus.rr.com Sun Sep 12 19:48:22 1999 Subject: Test Only--Please Ignore/Delete! Test. Brendan W. Kelleybkelley@columbus.rr.com from bkelley@columbus.rr.com Sun Sep 12 19:49:36 1999 Subject: New Member/Heddon Inquiry Hello all. I'm new to this list but have enjoyed lurking so far. Justbuilding up the old knowledge base to tackle my first rod this winter. Beendoing lots of reading and looking at all the rods I can. I found and boughta Heddon #11 at a garage sale last weekend. I'm not a collector and don'tknow too much, but I looked around a bit on-line and in some of thereferences at the local fly shop but can't find anything about the #11. I'dlove to know anything about it; it's in pretty good shape and I'd like tofish with it.Thanks. Brendan W. Kelleybkelley@columbus.rr.com from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Sun Sep 12 19:51:52 1999 Subject: Re: Bastard & Maker's Ethics Hi, First of all I think, and it seems to be universally agreed upon, thatGeorge is his own worst enemy. That being said I would like him to succeed for a couple of reasons. Theguytook a risk to setup a production rod company to make bamboo rods. I'vetaken a few risks in business and I admire those who do. Not only did he take the risk of starting a company but look at the market.If you were to ask Flyfisherfolks what they thought about bamboo vs.graphite I bet about 9 out of 10 wouldn't even consider bamboo overgraphite. Out of the other 10% I'ld bet most think bamboo is out of reachand you are left with a small percentage of fisherman that would spendthemoney for a handcrafted rod. I'l bet that most fly fishers have never seen abamboo rod let alone cast one. But, if George succeeds that means a lot more anglers will experiencebamboo. Once bit they will want better bamboo rods and that'll make theprofessional builders happy. However, success will not come from producing product like Rickdescribed.In many ways he remineds me of my son. My son knows everything and youcan'ttell him anything. But, my son is seven and we suspect he'll grow out ofthat by the time he's 30. Dealing with discriminating customers in aspecialized market with my son's attitude sounds like a recipe fordisaster. I do read most of George's posts. probably for the same reasons I read theheadlines on the tabloids while in supermarket checkouts. If you think ofthese things as "theater of the absurd' instead of serious commentary theycan be amusing. So, I would like to see him succeed but I don't think he will. I'm waitingto hear, and I know we will, why he didn't. Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Bastard & Maker's Ethics At 04:27 PM 09/12/1999 -0400, PMG wrote:Hi, I have been following Georges progress and talking with him about therodsboth by mail and on his chat site. As much as I'ld like to see himsucceedeI suspect he'll self destruct. As for tapers, Take a look at some of his comments from his chat sitearchives. I don't think what his next rods use will have any resemblencetoany known tapers. Rick, Did you happen to take measure the taper on the bastard rod? Paul Paul;Why on earth would you want him to succeed????? He is a slap in thefacetoevery other maker of bamboo fly rods that ever lived.As far as i amconcerned, George is the antithesis of everything that today's and mostofyesterday's rodmakers stand for. Read the history of his posts to ROFFandthe other usenet boards and you will get a good idea of where this guycomes from.John from Canerods@aol.com Sun Sep 12 20:26:57 1999 Subject: Help - need info on rodmaker Kenning? (~1950 era) All, One of the members in the local FF club gave me a rod to restore for him.It had belonged to a friend of his that left it to this club member in the friend's will. It's a 2 piece (2/2) 8' blond tonkin cane rod with inexpensive AL reelseat, AL winding check and chrome-plated brass ferrules. (serrated) Rod is inked: "A8040 - HDH Line""Kenning""Handcrafted Tonkin" Plus the original owner's name inked on the same flat as the maker's name: " ------- Frank D. Hiller, Jr. ---------- 1950 ---------" Does anyone know of this maker? Any info will be passed on to the rod's present owner - George "Chappie" Chapman. George is a well-know salt-water fly tier in our club. Thanks, Don BurnsCanerods@aol.com from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Sun Sep 12 21:01:24 1999 with ESMTP id ;Mon, 13 Sep 1999 02:00:51 +0000 Subject: Re: restoration questions Hi Darrell, It was great meeting you this weekend. I had lots of fun at thegathering and agree with you. It's a great bunch of folks! I only wish rodmaking paid better or I'd... Anyway, have fun with the rest of your time here. Dennis Darrell Lee wrote: Harry, It's a Shakespeare made by South Bend... I'm visiting the PA Gathering... having fun... learning lots... a greatgroup of guys... Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com -----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd Date: Saturday, September 11, 1999 7:57 PMSubject: restoration questions Friends,Three questions: First, how do you say "No" to the nice folkswho bring you Grandpa's rod and want you to restore it to like new for alittle bit of nothing??Question two relates to the first. I just reluctantly took inan 81/2' 3 piece rod to restore. Most of the decal is missing. What Ican read says, "Honor built - Honor..?" I can also see an "S". Thereis some hand lettering which I think says either " HI357-8 1/2' " or "41357-81/2' ". My educated guess is a South Bend???. Anyone want tosupply me with a little more information?The reel seat is aluminum over black plastic. The butt cap screwsup to hold the reel in place. Cork is reverse half-wells, both 1" and1/2" rings. Fairly small winding check for an old rod like this. Loopand ring hook-keeper. Wraps are blue tipped gold. Agate stripper.Can't tell about the ferrules, but I suspect they are nickel platedbrass. Each ferrule has a small line which looks almost knurled. Myguess is that it's swaged to keep the ferrule in place. The actualbamboo work is not bad, except for one place where three nodes meet onadjacent strips. There's only one tip, and it is short about 4.5"Any help in identifying this rod will be appreciated. Also, ifanyone has a correct tip taper, it would help me make the necessarysplice.Question three: What's a fair price for a restoration job on arod like this? Thanks in advance,Harry Boyd -- I know I'm insane, but it's the only thing that keeps me from goingcrazy! from knflyrod@home.com Sun Sep 12 22:29:05 1999 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:29:00 -0700 Subject: Re: New Member/Heddon Inquiry Brendan, First of all how did you determine it was a Heddon. Name on buttcap? Where did you find the model #? Heddon made rods for many specialdealers or wholesalers under a private brand name or number. They didmakea number 11 for Nelson Hardware, probably a wholesaler. A fulldescriptionmight give us a clue as to what rod in their regular line it relates to. Howlong? number of guides per section? Type of reelseat? Type of ferrule?Good luck. Ron Huff-----Original Message----- Subject: New Member/Heddon Inquiry Hello all. I'm new to this list but have enjoyed lurking so far. Justbuilding up the old knowledge base to tackle my first rod this winter.Beendoing lots of reading and looking at all the rods I can. I found and boughta Heddon #11 at a garage sale last weekend. I'm not a collector and don'tknow too much, but I looked around a bit on-line and in some of thereferences at the local fly shop but can't find anything about the #11. I'dlove to know anything about it; it's in pretty good shape and I'd like tofish with it.Thanks. Brendan W. Kelleybkelley@columbus.rr.com from HARMS1@prodigy.net Mon Sep 13 06:57:33 1999 Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:57:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Bastard & Maker's Ethics boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01BEFDBD.3E605720" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BEFDBD.3E605720 Terry,Everyone is entitled to his opinion, of course, but that does not mean =that all opinions are valid. In this case, you appear clearly to be =mistaken. Indeed, the best rods, BY FAR, are being built today. cheers, Bill-----Original Message-----From: TERENCE ACKLAND Cc: pmgoodwin@earthlink.net ; =rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Sunday, September 12, 1999 5:39 PMSubject: Re: Bastard & Maker's Ethics processes thatalso "make" a rod . I have a couple of 14 ft light salmon rods that =are asstraight as when thaey were built 80 years ago.I do not think that any contemporary rod builder could make a 14 ft =rodbecause most could not not constuct an 8 ft rod that looks straight.The best rods are not being built today, sorry.Terry. "R.A.Fick" wrote: PMG No, I didn't measure the taper, just across the flats in several =spotson each section to get an idea of the accuracy of their process, =it 's nobetter than many other production rods.As for designing new tapers that resemble no others, is that even =possible?there are only so many numbers available for a given line wt. rod =length,no.of sections etc. I think that if one were to look hard enough =you wouldfind tapers that resemble any " new " design.Maybe fifty years ago, not today. Rick R.A.Fick Bamboo Rod Co.The best rods are being made today.www.angelfire.com/in2/rafickrods/ ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BEFDBD.3E605720 Terry, entitled to his opinion, of course, but that does not mean that all = best rods, BY FAR, are being built today. Bill -----Original = pmgoodwin@earthlink.net = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sunday, September 12, 1999 5:39 PMSubject: Re: = Maker's EthicsTapers are not the only criteria = cane rod. There are are processes thatalso "make" a = have a couple of 14 ft light salmon rods that are asstraight as = rod builder could make a 14 ft rodbecause most could not not = 8 ft rod that looks straight.The best rods are not being built = afickrods/ ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BEFDBD.3E605720-- from scan.oest@post.tele.dk Mon Sep 13 08:01:45 1999 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP +0200 Subject: Re.: Bastard & Ethics boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01BEFDF9.A3D23920" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BEFDF9.A3D23920 Terry Salmon rods in the 12 - 15 feet size are indeed made today. I=B4ve cast =several,made by rodmakers/friends, members of the same fishing club as myself.Am going to make one myself this coming winter, a 12=B4#8-9 and dontseewhyit should be harder than any other rod. I have, obviously, asked =thosewha have already done such a rod and been told to procede as with anyother flyrod. regards, Carsten Jorgensen ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BEFDF9.A3D23920 Terry Salmon rods in the 12 - 15 feetsize = made today. I´ve cast several,made by rodmakers/friends,members = fishing club as myself.Am going to make one myself this= a 12´#8-9 and dont seewhyit should be harder than any = have, obviously, asked thosewha have already done such a rodand = to procede as with anyother flyrod. regards, Carsten =Jorgensen ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BEFDF9.A3D23920-- from ralph.shuey@redstone.army.mil Mon Sep 13 08:13:02 1999 1.redstone.army.mil Rodmakers Listserv Subject: RE: Bastard & Ethics boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01BEFDE9.B611D2C2" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BEFDE9.B611D2C2 Given that the same/or better grade of cane is available today then the =currentmakers should be able to fabricate a supperior product based on the =simple factthat that all the other materials and tools are better. Much of the ="blackmagic" from the old days is now technology, i.e. the guys know exactly =why theyare doing things, and what causes it to happen. Ralph Shuey ex-Manufacturing Engineering Chief -----Original Message----- Subject: Re.: Bastard & Ethics Terry Salmon rods in the 12 - 15 feet size are indeed made today. I=B4ve cast =several,made by rodmakers/friends, members of the same fishing club as myself.Am going to make one myself this coming winter, a 12=B4#8-9 and dont =seewhyit should be harder than any other rod. I have, obviously, asked =thosewha have already done such a rod and been told to procede as with anyother flyrod. regards, Carsten Jorgensen ------_=_NextPart_001_01BEFDE9.B611D2C2 that the same/or better grade of cane is available today then the = should be able to fabricate a supperior product based on the simple = magic" from the old days is now technology, i.e. the guys know exactly = are doing things, and what causes it to happen. Ralph Shuey ex-Manufacturing Engineering Chief EthicsTerry Salmon rods in the 12 - 15 feet= indeed made today. I=B4ve cast several,made by rodmakers/friends, = fishing club as myself.Am going to make one myselfthis = winter, a 12=B4#8-9 and dont seewhyit should be harder than any= have, obviously, asked thosewha have already done such a rod= to procede as with anyother flyrod. regards, Jorgensen ------_=_NextPart_001_01BEFDE9.B611D2C2-- from LambersonW@missouri.edu Mon Sep 13 09:33:03 1999 (5.5.2448.0) "'scan.oest@post.tele.dk'" ,Rodmakers Listserv Subject: RE: Bastard & Ethics In examining a number of older, high quality rods from F. E. Thomas,Leonard, Orvis and other makers, I have been very impressed with theirstraightness, and how that characteristic has been retained for manyyears.In that respect I think they are superior to many, but not all rods that arebeing made today. Why might that be true? One major rodmaker, nowretired,agrees, and suggests the difference is likely due to earlier qualityrodmakers rejecting inferior culms and sections at a high rate. Bamboowaspurchased in high volume and labor was cheap so it was economicallyfeasibleto sort cane and reject sections up until the time that components wereadded. That may be the reason that many glued-up sections are sometimesavailable from companies that have gone out of business. I suspect that most of us have a stock of cane (admittedly, high averagequality) that amounts to a few tens of culms and we are reluctant to evenreject even the poorer half, myself certainly included. Many of us may nothave seen enough cane to even be capable of doing so. For some thesituation may be improved by purchasing from dealers that grade canepriorto sale. Others may have been fortunate to be able to purchase good cane from commercial builders that had a large stock on hand, such as WaltonPowell. Once we have put the effort into splitting, straightening planing andgluing, it is even less likely that we are willing to discard a proportionof the sections that are inferior. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Bastard & Ethics Given that the same/or better grade of cane is available today then thecurrent makers should be able to fabricate a supperior product based onthesimple fact that that all the other materials and tools are better. Much ofthe "black magic" from the old days is now technology, i.e. the guys knowexactly why they are doing things, and what causes it to happen. Ralph Shuey ex-Manufacturing Engineering Chief -----Original Message----- Subject: Re.: Bastard & Ethics Terry Salmon rods in the 12 - 15 feet size are indeed made today. I've castseveral,made by rodmakers/friends, members of the same fishing club as myself.Am going to make one myself this coming winter, a 12'#8-9 and dont seewhyit should be harder than any other rod. I have, obviously, asked thosewha have already done such a rod and been told to procede as with anyother flyrod. regards, Carsten Jorgensen from ralph.shuey@redstone.army.mil Mon Sep 13 10:23:14 1999 1.redstone.army.mil "Shuey, Ralph","'scan.oest@post.tele.dk'",Rodmakers Listserv Subject: RE: Bastard & Ethics boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01BEFDFB.E6BD061E" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BEFDFB.E6BD061E Not being a builder myself one thing that I would submit is that if =youhad raw blanks available from the old days to compare against new raw =blanks andthey are straighter, then the raw material is a probable contributor. =Theproblem is that the raw material problem started showing up IN THIS =COUNTRY inthe late 40s and there probably aren't many raw blanks floating around =to lookat from that period. Since the Brits never had the problem, are their =rodsclassically straighter than ours? Again, that would point to the raw =materialaspect. I have a Hardy rod from the 50s and both tips have a mild set, =so atleast a few of their rods had some =problem................................. -----Original Message-----From: Lamberson, William R. Sent: Monday, September 13, 1999 10:33 AM 'scan.oest@post.tele.dk'; Rodmakers ListservSubject: RE: Bastard & Ethics In examining a number of older, high quality rods from F. E.Thomas,Leonard, Orvis and other makers, I have been very impressedwiththeirstraightness, and how that characteristic has been retained formany years.In that respect I think they are superior to many, but not allrods that arebeing made today. Why might that be true? One majorrodmaker,now retired,agrees, and suggests the difference is likely due to earlierqualityrodmakers rejecting inferior culms and sections at a high rate.Bamboo waspurchased in high volume and labor was cheap so it waseconomically feasibleto sort cane and reject sections up until the time thatcomponents wereadded. That may be the reason that many glued-up sections aresometimesavailable from companies that have gone out of business. I suspect that most of us have a stock of cane (admittedly, highaveragequality) that amounts to a few tens of culms and we arereluctant to evenreject even the poorer half, myself certainly included. Many ofus may nothave seen enough cane to even be capable of doing so. For somethesituation may be improved by purchasing from dealers thatgradecane priorto sale. Others may have been fortunate to be able to purchasegood cane from commercial builders that had a large stock on hand, suchasWaltonPowell. Once we have put the effort into splitting, straighteningplaning andgluing, it is even less likely that we are willing to discard aproportionof the sections that are inferior. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, September 13, 1999 8:13 AM Subject: RE: Bastard & Ethics Given that the same/or better grade of cane is available todaythen thecurrent makers should be able to fabricate a supperior productbased on thesimple fact that that all the other materials and tools arebetter. Much ofthe "black magic" from the old days is now technology, i.e. theguys knowexactly why they are doing things, and what causes it to happen. Ralph Shuey ex-Manufacturing Engineering Chief -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, September 13, 1999 9:07 AM Subject: Re.: Bastard & Ethics Terry Salmon rods in the 12 - 15 feet size are indeed made today.I=B4vecastseveral,made by rodmakers/friends, members of the same fishing clubasmyself.Am going to make one myself this coming winter, a 12=B4#8-9anddont seewhyit should be harder than any other rod. I have, obviously,asked thosewha have already done such a rod and been told to procede aswith anyother flyrod. regards, Carsten Jorgensen ------_=_NextPart_001_01BEFDFB.E6BD061E RE: Bastard & Ethics is that if you had raw blanks available from the old days to compare =against new raw blanks and they are straighter, then the raw material = problem started showing up IN THIS COUNTRY in the late 40s and there =probably aren't many raw blanks floating around to look at from that = tips have a mild set, so at least a few of their rods had some =problem................................. -----Original=Message----- Monday, September 13, 1999 10:33 AM 'scan.oest@post.tele.dk'; Rodmakers Listserv RE: Bastard & Ethics In examining a number of older, high =quality rods from F. E. Thomas,Leonard, Orvis and other makers, I =have been very impressed with theirstraightness, and how that =characteristic has been retained for many years.In that respect I think they are =superior to many, but not all rods that are agrees, and suggests the difference =is likely due to earlier qualityrodmakers rejecting inferior culms = purchased in high volume and labor =was cheap so it was economically feasibleto sort cane and reject sections up =until the time that components were =that many glued-up sections are sometimesavailable from companies that have =gone out of business. I suspect that most of us have a =stock of cane (admittedly, high averagequality) that amounts to a few tens =of culms and we are reluctant to evenreject even the poorer half, myself = have seen enough cane to even be = situation may be improved by =purchasing from dealers that grade cane prior =fortunate to be able to purchase good cane from commercial builders that had a=large stock on hand, such as WaltonPowell. Once we have put the effort into =splitting, straightening planing andgluing, it is even less likely that =we are willing to discard a proportionof the sections that are =inferior. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- e.army.mil]Sent: Monday, September 13, 19998:13 =AM Rodmakers ListservSubject: RE: Bastard & =Ethics Given that the same/or better grade of=cane is available today then thecurrent makers should be able to =fabricate a supperior product based on thesimple fact that that all the other = the "black magic" fromthe =old days is now technology, i.e. the guys knowexactly why they are doing things, =and what causes it to happen. Ralph Shuey ex-Manufacturing Engineering =Chief -----Original Message----- ]Sent: Monday, September 13, 19999:07 =AM Subject: Re.: Bastard & =Ethics Terry Salmon rods in the 12 - 15 feet size=are indeed made today. I=B4ve castseveral,made by rodmakers/friends, membersof =the same fishing club as myself.Am going to make one myself this =coming winter, a 12=B4#8-9 and dont seewhyit should be harder than any other=rod. I have, obviously, asked thosewha have already done such a rod and=been told to procede as with anyother flyrod. regards, Carsten Jorgensen ------_=_NextPart_001_01BEFDFB.E6BD061E-- from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Sep 13 10:37:03 1999 Subject: "Alosa" taper from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Sep 13 10:55:03 1999 Subject: 2 strip quad glue up the 2 strip section, I took it off the form and planed the sides this AM. There were no sets or kinks in the vertical direction, but it had a slight curvature in the side to side direction. This caused a spine that wouldhave had the guides sitting on the wrong flat. The curvature came out pretty easily with heat and everything looks good now. The nodeless section wasmuch less tricky to straighten than the previous rod with nodes. So far the resourcinal glued splices look good. I put a lot of side pressure and heat on a couple of them while straightening the blank.It was great to see everyone again and also meet some new friends.Thanks to all who helped out at the chile cookout. I think I ended up making 20-25 quarts, and I doubt there was one quart left at the end. from jf_gray@ix.netcom.com Mon Sep 13 12:38:41 1999 12:37:48 -0500 ix1.ix.netcom.com viasmap (V1.3) Subject: Source for Thermometer or thermostat for heatgun oven I built a heatgun convection oven and am looking for either athermometer or preferably a thermostat that I can use to shut off myheatgun when the correct temp is reached. A thermometer would probablywork fine if my oven stabilizes pretty easily. I appreciate the help. Jeremy Gray from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Sep 13 14:54:15 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0500 Subject: Re: restoration questions Many Thanks to all who replied!! The problem is that most of the requests I'm getting forrefinish-restore jobs don't come from so called "customers." They comefromfriends. There's a big difference! To a customer the rodmaker is someonewhooffers a fair service at a fair price. A friend is always looking for, if nota favor, at least a deal. And I've pretty well got the market cornered inNortheast Louisiana. The nearest rodmaker in Louisiana is 200 milesaway. Tothese folks, it's me or no one!!Sounds like y'all think that a fair price is somewhere from $150 up. hour at a reasonable rate. He's a wildlife biologist (read "game warden")whosupplies me with several bags of woodduck feathers each fall. (No, noextraflank feathers right now! Try me about December...)In the future I'll try to get out of the refinishing business. Takestoo much time away from building rods that I want for myself. Thanks again for all the information on the Shakespeare, as well asthe generous offers of help. Harry Ray Gould wrote: Hi Harry,The rod you asked about is a Shakespeare rod made for them by the Southbend Co. The model 357 was an 8 1/2 ft x 3pc rod made in the early 40's.Idon't have the taper for that particular model but you could come closeenough by measuring up the existing tip section, graph it and extrapolatethe missing 4 1/2". A fair price for repairing and refinishing this rodwould be $150 if you have an old tip section you could cut and splice onand if the ferrules are all ok (typically cracked). If you have to make atip it would cost much more. It's not a valuable rod and you mightadvocate just refinishing (new guides, wraps and varnish for say $100)therod as is without splicing on the tip. Tell the customer that the rod willonly be worth $75.Ray ----------From: Harry Boyd Subject: restoration questionsDate: Saturday, September 11, 1999 7:54 PM Friends,Three questions: First, how do you say "No" to the nice folkswho bring you Grandpa's rod and want you to restore it to like new for alittle bit of nothing??Question two relates to the first. I just reluctantly took inan 81/2' 3 piece rod to restore. Most of the decal is missing. What Ican read says, "Honor built - Honor..?" I can also see an "S". Thereis some hand lettering which I think says either " HI357-8 1/2' " or "41357-81/2' ". My educated guess is a South Bend???. Anyone want tosupply me with a little more information?The reel seat is aluminum over black plastic. The butt cap screwsup to hold the reel in place. Cork is reverse half-wells, both 1" and1/2" rings. Fairly small winding check for an old rod like this. Loopand ring hook-keeper. Wraps are blue tipped gold. Agate stripper.Can't tell about the ferrules, but I suspect they are nickel platedbrass. Each ferrule has a small line which looks almost knurled. Myguess is that it's swaged to keep the ferrule in place. The actualbamboo work is not bad, except for one place where three nodes meetonadjacent strips. There's only one tip, and it is short about 4.5"Any help in identifying this rod will be appreciated. Also, ifanyone has a correct tip taper, it would help me make the necessarysplice.Question three: What's a fair price for a restoration job on arod like this? Thanks in advance,Harry Boyd from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon Sep 13 16:42:54 1999 Rodmakers Listserv Subject: Re: Bastard & Ethics boundary="------------1CFBC98C1731A044A7392603" --------------1CFBC98C1731A044A7392603 I have not noticed any technological advances based on what informationI can gather. There has certainly been nothing on this list thatresembles anything new.We have hand planing and ferrules made from bar stock which would hardlyqualify as rod production. Most rod makers are back ordered because theyare hand planing, which is a method of amateur rod building which cannotbe expanded into a business. Unless of course we could grow extra arms!There are more guys building rods now probably than in the golden era ofcane, yet there is nothing like the output of those days and nothinglike the market.The reality is that we are a bunch of amateurs building cosmeticallygood looking rods by a method that requires very primative tools.Imagine a sweater factory with rows of hand knitters!George cannot get his milling machine producing any sort of reliablequantity, even though it is(was) a copy of an old design. Do not tell mewe are smarter today, George had a good few helpers trying to get hismill up and running.Sorry, I do not think we are half as smart.Terry "Shuey, Ralph" wrote: Given that the same/or better grade of cane is available today thenthe current makers should be able to fabricate a supperior productbased on the simple fact that that all the other materials and toolsare better. Much of the "black magic" from the old days is nowtechnology, i.e. the guys know exactly why they are doing things, andwhat causes it tohappen.RalphShueyex-Manufacturing Engineering Chief -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, September 13, 1999 9:07 AM Subject: Re.: Bastard & Ethics Terry Salmon rods in the 12 - 15 feet size are indeed madetoday. I've cast several,made by rodmakers/friends, membersof the same fishing club as myself.Am going to make onemyself this coming winter, a 12'#8-9 and dont seewhyitshould be harder than any other rod. I have, obviously,asked thosewha have already done such a rod and been told toprocede as with anyother flyrod. regards, Carsten Jorgensen --------------1CFBC98C1731A044A7392603 informationI can gather. There has certainly been nothing on this list that resemblesanything new.We have hand planing and ferrules made from bar stock which wouldhardlyqualify as rod production. Most rod makers are back ordered because theyare hand planing, which is a method of amateur rod building which cannotbe expanded into a business. Unless of course we could grow extra arms!There are more guys building rods now probably than in the golden eraof cane, yet there is nothing like the output of those days and nothinglike the market.The reality is that we are a bunch of amateurs building cosmeticallygood looking rods by a method that requires very primative tools. Imaginea sweater factory with rows of hand knitters! reliablequantity, even though it is(was) a copy of an old design. Do not tell mewe are smarter today, George had a good few helpers trying to get his millup and running.Sorry, I do not think we are half as smart.Terry "Shuey, Ralph" wrote: that the same/or better grade of cane is available today then the currentmakers should be able to fabricate a supperior product based on the simple of the "black magic" from the old days is now technology, i.e. the guysknow exactly why they are doing things, and what causes it to ex-Manufacturing Engineering Chief -----OriginalMessage-----From: scan.oest Sent: Monday,September13, 1999 9:07 AM ListservSubject: Re.:Bastard& Ethics rods in the 12 - 15 feet size are indeed made today. I´ve castseveral,made myself.Amgoing to make one myself this coming winter, a 12´#8-9 and dontseewhyitshould be harder than any other rod. I have, obviously, askedthosewhahave already done such a rod and been told to procede as withanyother Jorgensen --------------1CFBC98C1731A044A7392603-- from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon Sep 13 17:17:05 1999 "'scan.oest@post.tele.dk'" ,Rodmakers Listserv Subject: Re: Bastard & Ethics Bill,all these builders used production methods and made rods in quantitiesthat wecan only dream about. They were never cheap rods and required a monthssalary topurchase one. Modern rods built one at a time should be infinitely superiortothese, but are they?It is hardly fair to stand a 50 year old rod next to a brand newcontemporaryrod.Most of the old makers did not split their culms but sawed them which Ithinkhad an effect on the ability of a rod to stay straight. Cane has a memoryandsplit and straightened strips tend to resume their former position if themoisture content changes.Hand planers cannot saw their strips because a plane will only tear out.Try it! Terry"Lamberson, William R." wrote: In examining a number of older, high quality rods from F. E. Thomas,Leonard, Orvis and other makers, I have been very impressed with theirstraightness, and how that characteristic has been retained for manyyears.In that respect I think they are superior to many, but not all rods thatarebeing made today. Why might that be true? One major rodmaker, nowretired,agrees, and suggests the difference is likely due to earlier qualityrodmakers rejecting inferior culms and sections at a high rate. Bamboowaspurchased in high volume and labor was cheap so it was economicallyfeasibleto sort cane and reject sections up until the time that components wereadded. That may be the reason that many glued-up sections aresometimesavailable from companies that have gone out of business. I suspect that most of us have a stock of cane (admittedly, high averagequality) that amounts to a few tens of culms and we are reluctant toevenreject even the poorer half, myself certainly included. Many of us maynothave seen enough cane to even be capable of doing so. For some thesituation may be improved by purchasing from dealers that grade canepriorto sale. Others may have been fortunate to be able to purchase good cane from commercial builders that had a large stock on hand, such as WaltonPowell. Once we have put the effort into splitting, straightening planing andgluing, it is even less likely that we are willing to discard a proportionof the sections that are inferior. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, September 13, 1999 8:13 AM Subject: RE: Bastard & Ethics Given that the same/or better grade of cane is available today then thecurrent makers should be able to fabricate a supperior product based onthesimple fact that that all the other materials and tools are better. Muchofthe "black magic" from the old days is now technology, i.e. the guys knowexactly why they are doing things, and what causes it to happen. Ralph Shuey ex-Manufacturing Engineering Chief -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, September 13, 1999 9:07 AM Subject: Re.: Bastard & Ethics Terry Salmon rods in the 12 - 15 feet size are indeed made today. I've castseveral,made by rodmakers/friends, members of the same fishing club as myself.Am going to make one myself this coming winter, a 12'#8-9 and dont seewhyit should be harder than any other rod. I have, obviously, asked thosewha have already done such a rod and been told to procede as with anyother flyrod. regards, Carsten Jorgensen from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Mon Sep 13 17:38:34 1999 Subject: Re: Bastard & Ethics While we are talking about rejecting inferior cane in one of his eveningchat sessions George claimed a bet than %95 yield from his cane. ----- Original Message ----- Listserv Subject: RE: Bastard & Ethics In examining a number of older, high quality rods from F. E. Thomas,Leonard, Orvis and other makers, I have been very impressed with theirstraightness, and how that characteristic has been retained for manyyears.In that respect I think they are superior to many, but not all rods thatarebeing made today. Why might that be true? One major rodmaker, nowretired,agrees, and suggests the difference is likely due to earlier qualityrodmakers rejecting inferior culms and sections at a high rate. Bamboowaspurchased in high volume and labor was cheap so it was economicallyfeasibleto sort cane and reject sections up until the time that components wereadded. That may be the reason that many glued-up sections aresometimesavailable from companies that have gone out of business. I suspect that most of us have a stock of cane (admittedly, high averagequality) that amounts to a few tens of culms and we are reluctant toevenreject even the poorer half, myself certainly included. Many of us maynothave seen enough cane to even be capable of doing so. For some thesituation may be improved by purchasing from dealers that grade canepriorto sale. Others may have been fortunate to be able to purchase good cane from commercial builders that had a large stock on hand, such as WaltonPowell. Once we have put the effort into splitting, straightening planing andgluing, it is even less likely that we are willing to discard a proportionof the sections that are inferior. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, September 13, 1999 8:13 AM Subject: RE: Bastard & Ethics Given that the same/or better grade of cane is available today then thecurrent makers should be able to fabricate a supperior product based onthesimple fact that that all the other materials and tools are better. Muchofthe "black magic" from the old days is now technology, i.e. the guys knowexactly why they are doing things, and what causes it to happen. Ralph Shuey ex-Manufacturing Engineering Chief -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, September 13, 1999 9:07 AM Subject: Re.: Bastard & Ethics Terry Salmon rods in the 12 - 15 feet size are indeed made today. I've castseveral,made by rodmakers/friends, members of the same fishing club as myself.Am going to make one myself this coming winter, a 12'#8-9 and dont seewhyit should be harder than any other rod. I have, obviously, asked thosewha have already done such a rod and been told to procede as with anyother flyrod. regards, Carsten Jorgensen from bkelley@columbus.rr.com Mon Sep 13 18:58:19 1999 Subject: Heddon #11 Thanks to all who replied on-list and privately. I'll give you more infoand hopefully that will help.The rod case is banged-up aluminum(?) and the screw- on cap reads:"JamesHeddon's Sons Dowagiac, Mich." The rod is three piece with only 1 tipsection. Butt section is 32 3/4in (end to end of ferrule). Bamboo is darkhoney colored. Varnish is OK; I don't know if it's original (I'm too new atthis!). Reel seat is plain varnished wood, perhaps cedar. Varnish is roughhere. Simple sliding band hardware. Cork grip is in good condition andmadeof 1/2in disks. Above grip on front of rod handwritten in black ink underthe varnish is "Heddon" scrolling diagonally upward from left to right.Below that, on the front facet, in the same handwritten pen is "#11". Thisarea of the rod is in good condition and it doesn't look like anyalterations, etc. One snake guide on this section, abutting the ferrule.Guide is wrapped with what I'd call an olive-colored thread. Ferrule is ingood shape.Middle section is 31 7/8in end to end. 2 snake guides on this section.Thethread doesn't look the same; it's more a copperish color. I can't tell ifthese colors are true or involve the varnish. Tip section is 28 1/2in. Ithas 3 snake guides plus the tip top. Wrapped in the same olive thread asthe butt section. Varnish worn at the tip and there's no wrapping at thetip top (is there supposed to be?). The rod is in an original-looking green canvas bag which has asection init for an additional tip section (I assume).So, it looks like this rod has lost some length and maybe had someguidesrewound? I haven't cast it yet. It "feels" rather stiff.So, what do you all think? Thanks for any info. Brendan W. Kelleybkelley@columbus.rr.com from irish-george@pacbell.net Mon Sep 13 23:56:25 1999 ,"Rodmakers Listserv" Subject: Re: Bastard & Ethics boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006E_01BEFE32.CD1CF700" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_006E_01BEFE32.CD1CF700 OR the rod you mention had been subject to some abuse. If you're not =the original owner it would be hard to say for sure. George Bourke-----Original Message-----From: Shuey, Ralph Ralph ; 'scan.oest@post.tele.dk' =; Rodmakers Listserv = Date: Monday, September 13, 1999 8:31 AMSubject: RE: Bastard & Ethics Not being a builder myself one thing that I would submit is =that if you had raw blanks available from the old days to compare =against new raw blanks and they are straighter, then the raw material is =a probable contributor. The problem is that the raw material problem =started showing up IN THIS COUNTRY in the late 40s and there probably =aren't many raw blanks floating around to look at from that period. =Since the Brits never had the problem, are their rods classically =straighter than ours? Again, that would point to the raw material =aspect. I have a Hardy rod from the 50s and both tips have a mild set, =so at least a few of their rods had some =problem................................. From: Lamberson, William R. = In examining a number of older, high quality rods from F. E. = Leonard, Orvis and other makers, I have been very impressed = straightness, and how that characteristic has been retained = In that respect I think they are superior to many, but not = being made today. Why might that be true? One major = agrees, and suggests the difference is likely due to earlier = rodmakers rejecting inferior culms and sections at a high = purchased in high volume and labor was cheap so it was = to sort cane and reject sections up until the time that = added. That may be the reason that many glued-up sections = I suspect that most of us have a stock of cane (admittedly, = quality) that amounts to a few tens of culms and we are = reject even the poorer half, myself certainly included. = have seen enough cane to even be capable of doing so. For = situation may be improved by purchasing from dealers that = to sale. Others may have been fortunate to be able to = from commercial builders that had a large stock on hand, = Once we have put the effort into splitting, straightening = gluing, it is even less likely that we are willing to = Given that the same/or better grade of cane is available = current makers should be able to fabricate a supperior = simple fact that that all the other materials and tools are = the "black magic" from the old days is now technology, i.e. = exactly why they are doing things, and what causes it to = Salmon rods in the 12 - 15 feet size are indeed made today. = made by rodmakers/friends, members of the same fishing club = Am going to make one myself this coming winter, a 12=B4#8-9 = whyit should be harder than any other rod. I have, = wha have already done such a rod and been told to procede as = ------=_NextPart_000_006E_01BEFE32.CD1CF700 RE: Bastard &Ethics OR the rod you mention had been = sure. -----Original = Shuey, Ralph <ralph.shuey@redstone.army.m= Shuey, Ralph <ralph.shuey@redstone.army.m= Rodmakers Listserv <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Monday, September 13, 1999 8:31 AMSubject: RE: = Ethics being a builder myself one thing that I would submit is that if you = blanks available from the old days to compare against new raw blanks = they are straighter, then the raw material is a probable = The problem is that the raw material problem started showing up IN = COUNTRY in the late 40s and there probably aren't many raw blanks = 50s and both tips have a mild set, so at least a few of their rods = problem................................. RE: Bastard & Ethics = In examining a number of = quality rods from F. E. Thomas, Leonard, Orvis and other makers, I have been very = that characteristic has been retained for many years. = In that respect I think they = agrees, and suggests the difference is = was purchased in high = labor was cheap so it was economically feasible =to sort cane and reject sections up = sometimes available = suspect that most of us have a stock of cane (admittedly, = average quality) that = a few tens of culms and we are reluctant to even =reject even the poorer half, myself = improved by purchasing from dealers that grade cane = fortunate to be able to purchase good cane from commercial builders that had a = Once we have put the effort = splitting, straightening planing and gluing, it is even less likely that we are willing = a proportion of the = Bill Lamberson -----Original = Sent: Monday, September 13, = Bastard & Ethics Given that the same/or better = cane is available today then the current makers should be able to fabricate a = that that all the other materials and tools are = of the "black = from the old days is now technology, i.e. the guys = exactly why they are doing = Engineering Chief -----Original = Sent: Monday, September 13, = Ethics 12 - 15 feet size are indeed made today. I´ve = several, made by rodmakers/friends, members of the same = as myself. Am going = myself this coming winter, a 12´#8-9 and dont = whyit should be harder than = rod. I have, obviously, asked those wha have already done such a rod and been told to = with any other = ------=_NextPart_000_006E_01BEFE32.CD1CF700-- from irish-george@pacbell.net Tue Sep 14 00:15:38 1999 Subject: Re: Source for Thermometer or thermostat for heatgun oven If you are electrically inclined, you might want to check NationalSemiconductor's Application Notes for the LM34 and LM35 (one is forCentigrade and the other for Fahrenheit...plus or minus 0.1Ÿ). This couldbe used to switch power to a low-voltage relay coil whose switch sectionhashigh current and voltage capability. Should be able to put together acircuit for, maybe, $15 on a do-it-yourself basis. You actually use theLM34/LM35 as the temperature sensor. Another way would be to use the Peltier CPU coolers that are being soldtoday. If you apply a DC voltage to them they either heat or cool (up to50ŸC) depending on the polarity of the voltage. However, if you don't applyany voltage to them, they GENERATE a voltage depending upon whether thetemperature surrounding them is increasing or decreasing -- the greaterthechange, the greater the generated voltage...and the polarity depends uponwhether the temperature is increasing or decreasing. You could run theoutput of the Peltier device through an op-amp used as a comparator andusethe output to drive a relay. Once again, you could probably findappropriate circuits at the National Semiconductor website searching thelinear applications circuits. This way costs more than the method above.(Peltier devices are about $30 while a LM34 or LM35 is about $1.25.) Ifyou've ever seen the solid state coolers/heaters (for food) that sell for$100-200 for use in a car, those use Peltier devices to provide heating orcooling on demand. Good luck,George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: Source for Thermometer or thermostat for heatgun oven I built a heatgun convection oven and am looking for either athermometer or preferably a thermostat that I can use to shut off myheatgun when the correct temp is reached. A thermometer would probablywork fine if my oven stabilizes pretty easily. I appreciate the help. Jeremy Gray from LambersonW@missouri.edu Tue Sep 14 08:36:55 1999 (5.5.2448.0) Subject: impregnation weight gain Some time back there was a thread about use of a penetrating varnish asanimpregnating agent. For the past week I have had the butt and tip sectionsof a rod in the soup. No pressure or vacuum was used to attempt to forcethe varnish into the rod. Last night I took the sections out, wiped themoff and hung them to dry. This morning I weighed them to determine theamount of weight they had gained from the varnish. I also thought itwouldbe good to keep track of weight change so that I would know when it hadstabilized so that I could proceed with completing the rod. I was quitesurprised that weight had only increased by about one percent, slightlymorein the tip than in the butt as I would expect. The total increase in thetip was only .2 grams. Does anyone have experience to indicate if that is areasonable change in weight? I have never weighed before and aftervarnishing to have that for comparison. I have put a second rod in thevarnish so will have additional data in another week. I also have twins ofeach which will be varnished for comparison of the possible effects on theaction. The rod that I took out last night had been fumed with ammoniumhydroxide. Is there any reason to think that should influence the amountofvarnish that was picked up? Bill Lamberson from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Tue Sep 14 09:04:47 1999 HAA29051 (5.5.2448.0) Subject: list is the list down again or just a slow day Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Tue Sep 14 09:44:08 1999 Subject: Re: bastard happy hooker On Sun, 12 Sep 1999, R.A.Fick wrote: The happy hooker arrived in a heavy cardboard shipping tube with a brushedaluminum rod tube inside, well protected with bubble wrap.The hardware used is of generally good quality, Bellinger DLSB cap&ringseat with a nice curly maple spacer,Cortland ferrules,bright nickel silver agateen stripper, eight blued snakeguides,and a 73/8" full wells grip.The cane is very light colored with a dark flamed mottled effect, with anumber of visible glue lines on par with some lower grade Heddons I haveseen, 10 to 15 thousandths flat to flat deviations are common.Wraps are black tipped with red, well done, but finished with a rathersloppy epoxy job.The butt section looks to have been varnished prior to wrapping and thetiplooks to not have been varnished at all, or maybe one thin coat, I canttell The butt has a rather severe twist between the grip and stripper, and thetip is very crooked as well.This rod is 7'6" with the butt 46 3/4" and tip 44" ?I lawn cast a SA. WF 5 and WF 4 and it cast the 5 with authority,thats when the really major problem came to light, when I tried todisassemble the rod, the tip section pulled out of the male ferrule,taking half the wraps with it, not good.I would have taken the happy hooker with me tomorrow , for a few daysoffishing with guide extrodinare Frank Love, now I will return it.I think the rod has potential, its only no 14, I would like to see them getthe bugs out and do what companies like Heddon did many years ago, timewilltell. WOW, sounds like a piece of junk! That's kind of what we all suspected sono suprise there. What a waste of a nice Bellinger reelseat. Regards, BobFly Suppliesflysupplies@yahoo.com from watson@cape-consult.co.uk Tue Sep 14 13:46:28 1999 (BST) Subject: Access boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005E_01BEFEE9.B6A5B220" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005E_01BEFEE9.B6A5B220 Does anyone have any help on why I keep getting kicked off the list? I =have had to subscribe about four times in the last month. Is it me or =the list?Tim. ------=_NextPart_000_005E_01BEFEE9.B6A5B220 Does anyone have any help on whyI = Tim. ------=_NextPart_000_005E_01BEFEE9.B6A5B220-- from dryfly@erols.com Tue Sep 14 17:54:19 1999 Subject: Carlisle Gathering Just a note to thank all those who contributed to the success of theCarlisle rodmakers gathering. Thanks to all the speakers for thestories, information, updates and demonstrations. Thanks also to thevendors for both being there with their products and donating doorprizes. Thanks to Tom Whittle, the organizers and the Cumberland TUchapter for organizing and hosting the gathering. And last of all,thanks to all of the rodmakers for sharing ideas and having great rodsto cast (and increasing my list of rod tapers I want to build formyself). It's nice to be part of a unselfish group that is so willingto share ideas and help the art of rodmaking grow and flourish. God BlessBob Williams from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Sep 14 18:47:37 1999 16:56:28 PDT Subject: RE: Heddon #11 Brendan, It sounds like a Heddon....just kidding. The spiral writing is from the 30's (I think) from Michael Sinclair's book. The wood reelseat is a nice component, and means an earlier rod. Most Heddons were NS or plastic or both. The model number reflects the price at the time (I think) and #11 would have been on the lower end of the food chain. I've had a #10 and a #13 and they both had about 8 or 9 guides for the 8 1/2' length including stripper and tiptop. The 1927 #35 Lt. I have has 13 total guides, this is one way to determine the ranking. Since the ferrule size isn't written on the blank it's harder to tell how desirable the rod is. If it feels stiff it is likely one of the larger rods. The most valuable Heddons are those that are 8 1/2' or shorter and size 2f ferrule or smaller. Because the mid section is a different color it is difficult to tell if it is the original mid rewrapped or a replacement. I think most work- a-day fisherman fromthe past would have swapped rod sections if that is what it took to get backon the stream. Since the tip is shorter, but of the same color as the butt you can probably assume it is original, but has been broken in the past. Since the tiptop has no wrap it was probably broke off at that end and a tiptop re-mounted without bothering to wrap underneath. Not necessary fishing. Since you have the bag and tube it is probably a rod that was not completely swapped around and mismatched as you see with some oldrods. These are all assumptions. An old rod with varying color wraps and non-equal length sections has a history of repairs, but no real way of knowing more then that. Is that the kind of information you wanted? Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from edriddle@mindspring.com Tue Sep 14 19:52:37 1999 Subject: "Windsor" bamboo flyrod Subject: "Windsor" bamboo flyrod Can you help me with maker, approx. date, correct guides and wrap colors?It prob. won't cast or fish, but I'd like to refinish to wall-hanger. I'dlike to put wraps and guides back to original. Looks Montague but noMontague decal. Does have a 7/8" long rectangular gold decal on #1 flatoutlined in black with black written "Windsor". Butt is 36". Mid down 13/4" (only 2 guides), tip shorter than butt by 7 3/4" and likely fromanother rod. Bag Forest Green w/ multi-colored designs. 6" mild Wellsgrip, 4" reelseat, NPB, 1" wide knurled locking band, sliding band hasreelfoot hood and is connected to locking band (post WWIIMontagueTitelock?). Agate stripping guide, someone has put both EnglishandAmerican guides on mid and tip. Ferrules are plated brass. Wraps greentipped gold with green/gold signature wraps and green/missingintermediates( colors may change after removal). Any help appreciated.Ed from abeged@townsqr.com Tue Sep 14 20:42:48 1999 www1.townsqr.com(Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.5) with SMTP idfor;Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:46:26 -0500 Subject: PHY Parabolic 16? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0033_01BEFEF1.53E8ED20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BEFEF1.53E8ED20 Greetings! I came across this site while trying to find some information about a =rod I recently acquired with zero documentation or background. No, it's =not hot, I inherited it from a long-lost cousin. Sometimes the truth IS =stranger than fiction. What I have is what appears to be an old (notice the light cane color), =unnumbered and unnamed two-piece, two-tips (.075 and .080) piece. It has=a mortised cork handle (in excellent condition) with a single reel ring, =and the nickel-silver butt cap is stamped "Paul H. Young Co. Detroit =Mich." The only writing on the rod is just above the handle. Line 1: 8 =1/2' 4.59 oz. HCH - HCF. Line 2: Fer 15/64 tip top 5/64 Bamboo wt. =3.44 oz. The bag (no tube) is a kind of satin material of iridescent =copper and green... worn, but very nice. Overall length in 8 1/2', and =the cork handle measures 8 13/16'" from cap to the start of the cane. After contacting the company, I was initially advised that the rod may =be a possible custom Parabolic 15. Further research and some input from =other PHY rod owners from around the world (notably Jan Nystrom in =Sweden), however, suggested that the rod could be an early Texan. This =also turned out not to be the case. This is a rod that has become more and more interesting, though, as I =have attempted to determine its origins. As I said, I began by asking =the Paul H. Young Company about the rod, suspecting a pre-1946 model (no=name, no number). When asked about this particular rod, Todd Young told =me, " from the inscription and...low butt taper, it appears to be =essentially an 8'6" "Parabolic 15" [standard Parabolic 15's are =8'0"]...This is indeed a very interesting rod." Problematic about the =rod, however, were the Super Z ferrules which weren't available until = The handwriting, I felt, could be a helpful clue, so I contacted Mr. Bob =Summers about it the rod. What he told me was most enlightening, as well=as very intriguing. He said that the writing on the rod is definitely =Paul H. Young's, and that serial numbers were first used around 1955. ="With the super z ferrule I would guess this rod was built [updated?] =about 1952," he continued. He then added the most astonishing part of =this puzzle of all. He said, "Your photo looks like the length is 8 =1/2'?? [cursed glare - as you can see from the better photo it IS 8 =1/2'] If so this may be a one and only or one of a couple. If it is 8 =1/2' it may be a early parabolic 16 that had the early stepped ferrule = I hope this is an appropriate forum to ask about help ID-ing this rod. =I've read with interest from the archives and there certainly seems to =be enough expertise to shed some light on this. I hope that the stress charts showing the parabolic characteristics (in =spite of my rather clumsy measurements, I'm sure) of the rod come =through on this message. I also sent along the measurements to Mr. =Summers that he asked for in his initial response to my inquiry (see =below), but I only sent them to him last night and haven't heard back = from him yet. Please e- me for photos or stress charts of this rod if it would help. =I have a feeling the charts aren't going to be on this message... Anyway, thanks for your attention. Gary (Below is the text of Mr. Summers' response) The writing is Paul H. Young's. The first serial number were about =1955. > As far as the light color heat treat. We used some of these =blanks up into > the 1960"s there are probably still some of these in =the shop. With the > super z ferrule I would guess this rod was built =about 1952. Your photo > looks like the length is 8 1/2'?? If so this =may be a one and only or one > of a couple. If it is 8 1/2' it may be a =early parabolic 16 that had the > early stepped ferrule and was =referruled with the super z. If I had > dimension taken ever 6 inches I =could tell more. ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BEFEF1.53E8ED20 Greetings!I came across this site while trying to find some information about a = than fiction.What I have is what appears to be an old (notice the light cane = unnumbered and unnamed two-piece, two-tips (.075 and .080) piece. It has= mortised cork handle (in excellent condition) with a single reel ring, = nickel-silver butt cap is stamped "Paul H. Young Co. Detroit = cork handle measures 8 13/16'" from cap to the start of the cane.After contacting the company, I was initially advised that the rod = possible custom Parabolic 15. Further research and some input from other= owners from around the world (notably Jan Nystrom in Sweden), however,= case.This is a rod that has become more and more interesting, though, as I = attempted to determine its origins. As I said, I began by asking the = Young Company about the rod, suspecting a pre-1946 model (no name, = the inscription and...low butt taper, it appears to be essentially an = "Parabolic 15" [standard Parabolic 15’s are 8’0"]...This is = interesting rod." Problematic about the rod, however, were the Super Z = which weren't available until the early 1950's. The handwriting, I felt, could be a helpful clue, so I contacted Mr. = Summers about it the rod. What he told me was most enlightening, as well= intriguing. He said that the writing on the rod is definitely Paul H. = and that serial numbers were first used around 1955. "With the super z = would guess this rod was built [updated?] about 1952," he continued. He = added the most astonishing part of this puzzle of all. He said, "Your = looks like the length is 8 1/2'?? [cursed glare - as you can see from = it is 8 1/2' it may be a early parabolic 16 that had the early stepped = and was referruled with the super z." [hence the '52 reference earlier] = I hope this is an appropriate forum to ask about help ID-ing this = I've read with interest from the archives and there certainly seems to = expertise to shed some light on this. spite of my rather clumsy measurements, I'm sure) of the rod come = asked for in his initial response to my inquiry (see below), but I only = them to him last night and haven't heard back from him yet. message...Anyway, thanks for your attention.Gary(Below is the text of Mr. Summers' response) dimension taken ever 6 inches I could tell more. ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BEFEF1.53E8ED20-- from MLand02045@aol.com Tue Sep 14 21:04:29 1999 Subject: Unsubscribe Please take me off the list from BambooRods@aol.com Tue Sep 14 21:27:18 1999 Subject: Re: impregnation weight gain What specific varnish are you using to impregnate the rods. I would be interested in trying it myself depending on your results.Doug Hall from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Sep 15 00:26:18 1999 Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:35:25 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) "'ralph.shuey@redstone.army.mil'" ,"'scan.oest@post.tele.dk'" ,Rodmakers Listserv Subject: Re: Bastard & Ethics I shouldn't get involved but...On Mon, 13 Sep 1999, TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: Bill,all these builders used production methods and made rods in quantitiesthat wecan only dream about. They were never cheap rods and required a monthssalary topurchase one. Modern rods built one at a time should be infinitelysuperior tothese, but are they? Why aren't they? What is the yard stick? Why is volume an importantissue? It is hardly fair to stand a 50 year old rod next to a brand newcontemporaryrod. Then what the (insert expletive) is all the discussion about? Hand planers cannot saw their strips because a plane will only tear out. Try it!I haven't tried this but why would the presumably sharp plane iron tearout especially on sawed bamboo?The argument about splitting and sawed bamboo must hark back to theneedto rive wood for stronger turnings on things like Windsor chair legs andthe like. In the case of wood this is true but I think it's a bit of afine line between sawing and splitting bamboo unless as you say thesawn bamboo is more prone to tear out. Tony from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Sep 15 00:32:15 1999 Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:40:37 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) "'scan.oest@post.tele.dk'" ,Rodmakers Listserv Subject: Re: Bastard & Ethics We have hand planing and ferrules made from bar stock which wouldhardlyqualify as rod production. Most rod makers are back ordered because theyare hand planing, which is a method of amateur rod building which cannotbe expanded into a business. Unless of course we could grow extra arms!There are more guys building rods now probably than in the golden era ofcane, yet there is nothing like the output of those days and nothinglike the market. What is the big deal about volume? Lots of makers = lots of rods, samething as few makers = lots of rods. The reality is that we are a bunch of amateurs building cosmeticallygood looking rods by a method that requires very primative tools.Imagine a sweater factory with rows of hand knitters! They exist and get good money for the jumpers (sweaters) George cannot get his milling machine producing any sort of reliablequantity, even though it is(was) a copy of an old design. Do not tell mewe are smarter today, George had a good few helpers trying to get hismill up and running. I think he just gave up. But if we all just lowered our standards toGG's we could prob compete with our primative gear certainly in volumepossibly in (poor) quality if we really tried and kept our eyes shut. Tony from seanmcs@ar.com.au Wed Sep 15 02:42:55 1999 Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:38:50 +1000 Subject: Re: lines Bob: I have used the chalkstream lines over the years on cane rods, andfound them quite nice. They do need a little grease - mucilin - to keepthem floating in slow water where the surface tension goes down.Howevwer I have used Phoenix silk lines mainly in recent years. Theywere manufactured by my pal Noel Buxton, till he got too slowed down. Hesold the business to another Englishman, Michael M Brookes, who livesand works in France. I can send/broadcast his address if you want it. Ihave not dealt with the new maker, and have no interest in the businessof course. Would it be of interest to the list to hear whatever other sources thereare for silk lines? I know of Dubos in Paris but have not had one oftheir lines for years. Sean bob maulucci wrote: Thanks to everyone who e-mailed me about the silk lines.Is anyone currently using the Chalkstream lines with their rods? Theysoundlike an interesting alternative. Thinner, silk line tapers, and no messyreconditioning or price. I know Ralph thinks highly of them, has anyoneelse had good results?Thanks, Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY from mschaffer@mindspring.com Wed Sep 15 04:24:38 1999 Subject: Bags for rods Question for the list, now that I'm actually within site of needing one!What kind of material do you guys suggest using for a bag for cane rods?Very simplistic question I'm sure, but due to the varnish finish, the typeof material may be important. Any input will be appreciated! TIA, Mike from trout_eejit@hotmail.com Wed Sep 15 04:46:46 1999 Wed, 15 Sep 1999 02:46:12 PDT Subject: Who here uses "Bad Bamboo"? I've been reading the list to get a feel of things andI was interested in your discussion on bamboo quality. Mr.Gehrke, of Bastard Bamboo Rods has this to say on thesubject of the bamboo being used today on his www.gink.comwebsite: "So . . . securing enough amabilis bamboo to last more then a year, becamea paramount problem to be solved. If you cannot have the genuine article,why continue on the venture, right? That means flying to the West Coast and talking to a fellow American about Bamboo. Bamboo that grows on onlyabout 72,000 acres on this entire planet. That is all there is. This individual, who I will keep secret goes to China and cuts the Bamboo himself andworks with the farmers in choosing and sorting the finest available. THIS is the Tonkin Cane that the Bastard Bamboo Fly Rod Company obtained. But that,is another story still. I would say 99.9% of all the bamboo makers in the United States simplyorder certain numbers of culms of bamboo sight unseen and what they get iswhat arrives at their door. I didn't think this was the way to do it. So, I climbed into my airplane and went Bamboo Hunting. I was not about tohave lousy bamboo sent me by anyone." So, do people here order bamboo and hope that what they receive is worthwhile, or is he inventing figures and facts once again in an attemptto put down other rodmakers? from reading comments here it seems the onlyrod maker who does NOT exercise strict quality controls on bamboo used is Mr. gehrke himself! ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from channer@hubwest.com Wed Sep 15 06:44:31 1999 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A6FA215A0116; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 05:46:02 MST Subject: Re: Who here uses "Bad Bamboo"? At 09:46 AM 09/15/1999 GMT, Bob Holdness wrote: I've been reading the list to get a feel of things andI was interested in your discussion on bamboo quality. Mr.Gehrke, of Bastard Bamboo Rods has this to say on thesubject of the bamboo being used today on his www.gink.comwebsite: "So . . . securing enough amabilis bamboo to last more then a year, becamea paramount problem to be solved. If you cannot have the genuine article,why continue on the venture, right? That means flying to the West Coast and talking to a fellow American about Bamboo. Bamboo that grows on onlyabout 72,000 acres on this entire planet. That is all there is. This individual, who I will keep secret goes to China and cuts the Bamboo himself andworks with the farmers in choosing and sorting the finest available. THIS is the Tonkin Cane that the Bastard Bamboo Fly Rod Company obtained. But that,is another story still. I would say 99.9% of all the bamboo makers in the United States simplyorder certain numbers of culms of bamboo sight unseen and what they get iswhat arrives at their door. I didn't think this was the way to do it. So, I climbed into my airplane and went Bamboo Hunting. I was not about tohave lousy bamboo sent me by anyone." So, do people here order bamboo and hope that what they receive is worthwhile, or is he inventing figures and facts once again in an attemptto put down other rodmakers? from reading comments here it seems theonly rod maker who does NOT exercise strict quality controls on bamboo used isMr. gehrke himself! ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Bob;I believe you have answered your own question.John from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Wed Sep 15 08:14:22 1999 "Lamberson, William R." "'scan.oest@post.tele.dk'" ,Rodmakers Listserv Subject: RE: Bastard & Ethics A very interesting discussion. Seems to me that it would be a lot easier tosaw strips straight than it is to do all the things we do with crooked splitstrips. It could be done with some very standard shop tools. If the problem is that sawed strips cannot be hand planed (because thebladecatches on the ends of the cut fibers??) then maybe we should begrinding/sanding/milling. If I'm willing to go through all the arcana ofprecision hand planing for a quality rod, I'm sure as hell willing to figureout how to sand or mill them instead. Does anyone know of any actual evidence that splitting is superior? Ofcourse it preserves the full length of more fibers, but nodeless rods havemore partial fibers than one with sawed strips and I don't believe theysuffer. Barry Kling -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, September 13, 1999 5:21 PM Cc: 'ralph.shuey@redstone.army.mil';'scan.oest@post.tele.dk'; Rodmakers ListservSubject: Re: Bastard & Ethics Bill,all these builders used production methods and made rods inquantities that wecan only dream about. They were never cheap rods andrequired a months salary topurchase one. Modern rods built one at a time should beinfinitely superior tothese, but are they?It is hardly fair to stand a 50 year old rod next to a brandnew contemporaryrod.Most of the old makers did not split their culms but sawedthem which I thinkhad an effect on the ability of a rod to stay straight. Canehas a memory andsplit and straightened strips tend to resume their formerposition if themoisture content changes.Hand planers cannot saw their strips because a plane willonly tear out. Try it! Terry"Lamberson, William R." wrote: In examining a number of older, high quality rods from F.E. Thomas,Leonard, Orvis and other makers, I have been veryimpressed with theirstraightness, and how that characteristic has beenretained for many years.In that respect I think they are superior to many, but notall rods that arebeing made today. Why might that be true? One majorrodmaker, now retired,agrees, and suggests the difference is likely due toearlier qualityrodmakers rejecting inferior culms and sections at a highrate. Bamboo waspurchased in high volume and labor was cheap so it waseconomically feasibleto sort cane and reject sections up until the time thatcomponents wereadded. That may be the reason that many glued-up sectionsare sometimesavailable from companies that have gone out of business. I suspect that most of us have a stock of cane(admittedly, high averagequality) that amounts to a few tens of culms and we arereluctant to evenreject even the poorer half, myself certainly included.Many of us may nothave seen enough cane to even be capable of doing so. Forsome thesituation may be improved by purchasing from dealers thatgrade cane priorto sale. Others may have been fortunate to be able topurchase good cane from commercial builders that had a large stock on hand,such as WaltonPowell. Once we have put the effort into splitting, straighteningplaning andgluing, it is even less likely that we are willing todiscard a proportionof the sections that are inferior. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, September 13, 1999 8:13 AM Subject: RE: Bastard & Ethics Given that the same/or better grade of cane is availabletoday then thecurrent makers should be able to fabricate a supperiorproduct based on thesimple fact that that all the other materials and toolsare better. Much ofthe "black magic" from the old days is now technology,i.e. the guys knowexactly why they are doing things, and what causes it tohappen. Ralph Shuey ex-Manufacturing Engineering Chief -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, September 13, 1999 9:07 AM Subject: Re.: Bastard & Ethics Terry Salmon rods in the 12 - 15 feet size are indeed madetoday. I've castseveral,made by rodmakers/friends, members of the same fishingclub as myself.Am going to make one myself this coming winter, a 12'#8-9and dont seewhyit should be harder than any other rod. I have,obviously, asked thosewha have already done such a rod and been told to procedeas with anyother flyrod. regards, Carsten Jorgensen from brookie@frii.com Wed Sep 15 08:26:37 1999 Subject: Re: lines Bob: I have used the chalkstream lines over the years on cane rods, andfound them quite nice. They do need a little grease - mucilin - to keepthem floating in slow water where the surface tension goes down.Howevwer I have used Phoenix silk lines mainly in recent years. Theywere manufactured by my pal Noel Buxton, till he got too slowed down. Hesold the business to another Englishman, Michael M Brookes, who livesand works in France. I can send/broadcast his address if you want it. Ihave not dealt with the new maker, and have no interest in the businessof course. I am curious if the chalkstream and/or phoenix really do a credible jobof FLOATING ? Realize it is subjective. But I had heard they do not, hence the 'mucilin' or some regular dressing. If that dressing were tolast all day, e.g., 8 hours of fishing, that would be one thing. Ifhowever, you have to re-dress every 20 casts ... arrrrgggh. I fish primarily faster waters, all dryflying, don't want any line to sink on me. Silk lines are in the back of my mind for use with my canesomeday. In fact, if they were that good, I could use on the (stuffcotton in ears) graphite rod/reel setups. Not that I can afford silk lines yet at all, just curious about them. I do know they take a bit more 'maintenance and care', but from jon.beckton@asml.nl Wed Sep 15 08:55:56 1999 +0200 (MET DST) 4.1) Subject: Silk lines and other things Coming out of lurk mode to ask you wise folk a couple of questions. 1. Re all the talk about silk lines, I have a couple of Nottingham reelsthat I picked up in New Zealand a while ago for display. They have silklines on them that have set solid. Is there anything I can use to make'em supple without damaging the wood/brass and what looks like ivoryhandles of the reels? 2. Are there any cane rod makers from the Netherlands on the list? Jon Becktonjon.beckton@asml.nl from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed Sep 15 08:56:30 1999 GAA18820; (5.5.2448.0) "'rodmakers'" Subject: RE: Who here uses "Bad Bamboo"? when George buys bamboo from the guy out here, a lot of us buy from thesame guy, hedoes not get to hand pick what he gets, he just gets what ever is in thebundle like therest of us. He has a very big tendency to be full of his own retoric andactuallybelieve it. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ----------From: Bob Holdness[SMTP:trout_eejit@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 2:46 AM Subject: Who here uses "Bad Bamboo"? I've been reading the list to get a feel of things andI was interested in your discussion on bamboo quality. Mr.Gehrke, of Bastard Bamboo Rods has this to say on thesubject of the bamboo being used today on his www.gink.comwebsite: "So . . . securing enough amabilis bamboo to last more then a year,became a paramount problem to be solved. If you cannot have the genuine article,why continue on the venture, right? That means flying to the West Coast and talking to a fellow American about Bamboo. Bamboo that grows on onlyabout 72,000 acres on this entire planet. That is all there is. This individual, who I will keep secret goes to China and cuts the Bamboo himself andworks with the farmers in choosing and sorting the finest available. THIS isthe Tonkin Cane that the Bastard Bamboo Fly Rod Company obtained. Butthat, is another story still. I would say 99.9% of all the bamboo makers in the United States simplyorder certain numbers of culms of bamboo sight unseen and what they get iswhat arrives at their door. I didn't think this was the way to do it. So, I climbed into my airplane and went Bamboo Hunting. I was not about tohave lousy bamboo sent me by anyone." So, do people here order bamboo and hope that what they receive is worthwhile, or is he inventing figures and facts once again in an attemptto put down other rodmakers? from reading comments here it seems theonly rod maker who does NOT exercise strict quality controls on bamboo used isMr. gehrke himself! ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Sep 15 09:12:50 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:12:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Bags for rods Doc,I use 100% cotton, but for no other reason than that it is traditional.I've even found a couple of nice ff patterns that look good.On a similar note, is there a particular style that y'all like? Becausethe tubes I use are a fairly tight fit, I have been making the bags withoutflaps or ties. Any solid reasoning for particular bag styles? Harry Mike Shaffer wrote: Question for the list, now that I'm actually within site of needing one!What kind of material do you guys suggest using for a bag for cane rods?Very simplistic question I'm sure, but due to the varnish finish, the typeof material may be important. Any input will be appreciated! TIA, Mike from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Sep 15 09:22:47 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:21:53 -0500