from irish-george@pacbell.net Fri Oct 1 01:00:20 1999 Subject: Re: fly lines boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0031_01BF0B97.AB366820" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01BF0B97.AB366820 My mind puts on the brakes once I read something I know to be false =(like the description of being "frictionless" due to the use of Teflon) =or at least a gross exaggeration. If he'd said something like "very low =friction", "extremely low friction", or "virtually frictionless" I would =have kept reading. George Bourke-----Original Message-----From: Tony Young Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Wednesday, September 29, 1999 4:05 PMSubject: Re: fly lines Aren't they the ones with the claim to fame that they're colour =co- ordinated? Tony Has anyone tried the Payne lines advertised from their website. =http://www.efpayne.com They are supposed to be for "fine bamboo rods." =At only $36.95 I wonder if they are better than the average line when = Thanks, Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com =/************************************************************************=*/ Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It =/************************************************************************= ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01BF0B97.AB366820 My mind puts on the brakes once I= I know to be false (like the description of being = reading. George Bourke -----Original = bob@downandacross.com rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Wednesday, September 29, 1999 4:05 PMSubject: Re: fly= linesAren't they the ones with the claim to = they're colour co-ordinated?TonyAt 06:29 PM = -0700, bob maulucci wrote: Has anyone tried the Payne lines = from their website. http://www.efpayne.com They are supposed to be for "fine bamboo = At only $36.95 I wonder if they are better than the average line = =Mauluccibob@downandacross.com=/*******************************************************************=******/AV Young And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything.= =It/************************************************************= ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01BF0B97.AB366820-- from irish-george@pacbell.net Fri Oct 1 01:17:27 1999 Subject: Re: Power Backup Not that one in particular, but for my job I built a computer controlledtest system last year that tested 80 units over a period of 3-1/2days...needless to say, with a test that runs that long you don't want it toget reset due to a power outage! So, I had a UPS for the computer. Then,of all things, no power outage occurred but the UPS failed instead! A UPSis basically a constantly recharging battery that you use to power your PCall of the time so the UPS failure caused the test to stop. The moral is ifit is REALLY, REALLY important to keep running, wire up multiple UPS's sothat a single failure doesn't cause the system to stop. George Bourke -----Original Message----- Subject: Power Backup Only remotely connected to rodmaking, but has anyone used CyberPowerfora power backup unit on their computer and what kind of success wasfoundwith the software? from scan.oest@post.tele.dk Fri Oct 1 02:32:19 1999 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP Subject: Sv: Rod taper theories Australia declared: You'd get the impression paras are the somehow "wild cats" with no realuse they way they seem to be beaten like a red haired orphan in the lastfew days. I'm not the only one who rabbits on about the wonders of theDriggs,the outstanding charistics of the Para 15 the pocket rocketness of the PHY Midge, the exquisit delights of the Perfectionist. Hell, I'm gettingall figity just thinking about them.These are all great dry fly rods, as well as being excellent nymphers.What's not to like? I've made two Driggs with GS guides as well as a fewmore with the conventional hardware and recently a Para 15 with GSguidesas well. There's something nice about the whisper the line makes as itshoots through these guides that makes a person go all gooey in the legs. The world needs more "hinges" I say. Tony I've avoided participating in this on - a can 'o worms Bill called it, andrightly so.Let me just add a very personal opinion: For all kind of trout fishing, allone needs isa Para 15 and a The Perfectionist. That will take care of howling winds,big WollyWorms, finicky trout on #22 dries - You name it. If I were to have but onerod: Para 15. I must say I am glad I did not started my rodbuilding experience with PHYtapers. Nowthat would have limited the No. of different rods to build. So all You guysjuststartingYour rodbuilding trip: Make'm all - long, short, para, quick, slow, flamed,blond - andYou will end up finding YOUR favourite taper and rod. And from Your ownexperience,not the ideas of "old" farts like Yours truly Carsten PS.: PHY reigns forever :-))) from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Fri Oct 1 03:02:05 1999 (5.5.2448.0) Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Rod taper theories Well said Carsten!! Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: Sv: Rod taper theories Australia declared: You'd get the impression paras are the somehow "wild cats" with no realuse they way they seem to be beaten like a red haired orphan in the lastfew days. I'm not the only one who rabbits on about the wonders of theDriggs,the outstanding charistics of the Para 15 the pocket rocketness of the PHY Midge, the exquisit delights of the Perfectionist. Hell, I'm gettingall figity just thinking about them.These are all great dry fly rods, as well as being excellent nymphers.What's not to like? I've made two Driggs with GS guides as well as a fewmore with the conventional hardware and recently a Para 15 with GSguidesas well. There's something nice about the whisper the line makes as itshoots through these guides that makes a person go all gooey in the legs. The world needs more "hinges" I say. Tony I?ve avoided participating in this on - a can ?o worms Bill called it, andrightly so.Let me just add a very personal opinion: For all kind of trout fishing, allone needs isa Para 15 and a The Perfectionist. That will take care of howling winds,bigWollyWorms, finicky trout on #22 dries - You name it. If I were to have but onerod: Para 15. I must say I am glad I did not started my rodbuilding experience with PHYtapers. Nowthat would have limited the No. of different rods to build. So all You guysjust startingYour rodbuilding trip: Make?m all - long, short, para, quick, slow, flamed,blond - andYou will end up finding YOUR favourite taper and rod. And from Your ownexperience,not the ideas of "old" farts like Yours truly Carsten PS.: PHY reigns forever :-))) from seanmcs@ar.com.au Fri Oct 1 04:20:10 1999 Subject: Re: Rod taper theories Bill, also Terry and Carsten and Tony: I thank you for your detailedcommentary about the perceived problem with Parabolic rods. As one whois principally interested in angling and the rod as a potentiallyexquisite tool in the process, I mention that my first introduction thethe Parabolic was a Pezon & Michel PPP Super- Marvel 7' 2" Parabolic.This has been a fine rod and I still like to try it on smaller streams,and have settled on a WF-4 Phoenix silk line for it. Personally I havenot encountered Parabolic rods from hell. I have had a number of canerods that I could not get along with, but none were Parabolic. I guessmy problem with some of the commentary is that it seems to visit uponParabolics only, the sins of poor rod design. In this way it comes acrossas somewhat Halfordian in tone, or reminiscent of The Nymph Debate atthe Flyfishers Club in February 1938. Carsten. You might have inspired the following that is justappearing in the 4th Arts of Angling supplement to the NSW Rod FishersSociety bi-monthly Bulletin: "The rod that fascinates some is the Parabolic. This is a rod that loadsall the weay down into the handle when there is sufficient line out. Inone sense slow, as it takes time to load up, in another it is fast, aswhen loaded it propels the line like a slingshot, backwards or forwards.It needs good timing, but contrary to some comments, it is notrestricted to long casting. Short casts may also be accomplished, butneed more vigour from the angler. Well controlled, a Parabolic is aninstrument of great sweetness. "Individual styles are everything to do with rods. A recent Internetitem from an American rodmaker was about a Parabolic that he made forhimself, and that he liked a great deal. A leading casting expert tookit out and tried it for some time, during which the line constantlydraped itself around him. He handed it back to the maker and saidsomething to the effect that it didn't cast a darn. Later, anotherexpert cast out the entire line with just two false casts, and insistedon buying the rod from the maker... Best of all, have different moods,fish diverse waters, and let different types of rod tell you what theyare capable of doing!" Please forgive the use of bandwith that I hope is not irregular. Sean WILLIAM A HARMS wrote: Part 1.1 Type: Plain Text (text/plain)Encoding: quoted-printable from maxs@geocities.co.jp Fri Oct 1 05:09:24 1999 bysv01.geocities.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W) with ESMTP id TAA23620 for; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 19:09:18 +0900 (JST) mail.geocities.co.jp(1.3G-GeocitiesJ-3.3) with SMTP id TAA21814 for; Fri, 1 Oct1999 19:09:17 +0900 (JST) Subject: Binding from thinner side Hello list, One of my friends found recently that Garrison/Carmichael wrote to startbinding from thinner side of tip section in their book (page 90, 91).I have been binding from thicker side of sections and remembered thephenomenahow the tip top portion got twisted while binding on Garrison style binder. Is it rational in binding from thinner side? Such as it would protect thetip top portion bebroken on the binder? Lessing the twist? I am curious how the professional or experienced rod makers start bindingespecially tip sections.Any experienced opinion is appreciated on how to protect the break of tiptop while binding andlessing the effect of twist. Thanks in advance, Max Max Rod Craft, an oriental rod crafteremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/maxrod from mschaffer@mindspring.com Fri Oct 1 06:12:29 1999 Subject: Pratt Lambert URL Needed Sorry for the bandwidth, but I can't seem to locate a Pratt&Lambert storehere in Atlanta and was wondering if anyone could help me with a url so Icould get hold of them on the net (trying to locate some Varmor r- 10)Thanks, Mike from flytyr@southshore.com Fri Oct 1 06:20:13 1999 Subject: First Rod I finally fished my first rod, The Sir "D". What adelightful rod to cast. Was out in the morning onthe White with my 9' G------- rod and the windhowling up a storm. Got a few trout. That eveningI got an invitation to fish Crooked Creek anddecided what better time to get it christened. Ihad lawn cast the Sir "D" and it felt good butwith a little load on it from the water it is abeauty. The pickup and shooting the line feltbetter than the 9' I had used in the morning. Ihad visions of the old bamboo rods I had fished inthe past, (real soft) this rod changed all ofthat. I was using a WF 4 F, that was what is onthe reel at this time, any advise as to what linedoes best. That line does real good on the creek,it may take a little more loading on a windy day,on the White.I did C & R 17 nice Bluegill and Goggle eye bass.Finished rod # 2 on Tuesday, this rod went to mynew Son in Law. Hope it casts as well as # 1.Thanks for all the help from the list. It tooknine years, but without the little push from a fewon the list I probably would still beprocrastinating. Blanks 3 to 9 are now glued upand waiting for ferrules and guides to beinstalled. Christmas is not too far off, got toget moving on them.Heading for the Conclave this morning, Harry willbe there demoing Rodmaking.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from HARMS1@prodigy.net Fri Oct 1 07:12:51 1999 Fri, 1 Oct 1999 08:11:20 -0400 "Don & Sandy Andersen" Subject: Re: Rod taper theories boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0031_01BF0BE4.1BDA3EC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01BF0BE4.1BDA3EC0 All, I don't think the world needs more hinges so much as it needs more =makers like Paul Young who REALLY KNEW how to manage hinges properly. =That's the key! cheers, Bill -----Original Message-----From: Tony Young Cc: k5vkq@ix.netcom.com ; =Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Thursday, September 30, 1999 1:31 PMSubject: Re: Rod taper theories You'd get the impression paras are the somehow "wild cats" with no =realuse they way they seem to be beaten like a red haired orphan in the =lastfew days. I'm not the only one who rabbits on about the wonders of =the Driggs,the outstanding charistics of the Para 15 the pocket rocketness of = PHY Midge, the exquisit delights of the Perfectionist. Hell, I'm =gettingall figity just thinking about them.These are all great dry fly rods, as well as being excellent =nymphers.What's not to like? I've made two Driggs with GS guides as well as a =fewmore with the conventional hardware and recently a Para 15 with GS =guidesas well. There's something nice about the whisper the line makes as =itshoots through these guides that makes a person go all gooey in the =legs. The world needs more "hinges" I say. Tony On Wed, 29 Sep 1999, Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: Onis, If you graph the rod, you will find that the rate of change of the =tapervaries in a couple of places. from the tip to 35" the rate of =change isapprox. 0.017"/5" of rod travel. At 35" the rate drops to =0.012"/5" of rodtravel. A further drop in taper exists @ 55" where the taper is =now @0.008"/5" of rod travel.These drops would be higher stress areas or areas where the cane =shouldbend more for a given load.I've built 2 Para 15's. They cast strongly and landed fish easily. =They areno wimps. A friend used his on # 2 weighted Wooly Buggers on the =Bow River.He was surprised at how easy it cast these large flies. Both the =rod I ownand his has landed rainbows exceeding 7 lbs. A hinge is simply an length of the rod where the rate is change is =lessthan the area above it viewed from the tip. While "hinge" may =describe theaction, truly its a droop. It is certainly not a limp inch in the = Don At 11:02 AM 9/29/99 -0400, k5vkq@ix.netcom.com wrote:Question: Is a "hinge" a high stress point or a low stress =point. Theparabolic has a thicker middle than a straight taper so it is low =stress inthe middle. I thought the "hinge" was a place in the rod that had =beenmade thinner than would be expected to produce a high stress =point. Did Imiss something? Would have researched the archives but I can't get to either the =archivesor tapers lately. Regardsa,Onis =/***********************************************************************/= A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html =/***********************************************************************/= ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01BF0BE4.1BDA3EC0 All, I don't think the = more hinges so much as it needs more makers like Paul Young who REALLY= Bill -----Original = Tony Young <tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au= k5vkq@ix.netcom.com= Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Thursday, September 30, 1999 1:31 PMSubject: Re: Rod= theoriesYou'd get the impression paras are = somehow "wild cats" with no realuse they way theyseem = beaten like a red haired orphan in the lastfew days. I'm not the = one who rabbits on about the wonders of the Driggs,the = charistics of the Para 15 the pocket rocketness of the PHY = exquisit delights of the Perfectionist. Hell, I'm gettingall = thinking about them.These are all great dry fly rods, as well as = excellent nymphers.What's not to like? I've made two Driggs with = guides as well as a fewmore with the conventional hardware and = a Para 15 with GS guidesas well. There's something nice about = whisper the line makes as itshoots through these guides that = "hinges" I say.TonyOn Wed, 29 Sep = Para 15's. They cast strongly and landed fish easily. They = =/****************************************************************= How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? = None. They change the new standard to = Younghttp://www.iinet.n=et.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html/*****************************=******************************************/ ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01BF0BE4.1BDA3EC0-- from HARMS1@prodigy.net Fri Oct 1 07:16:05 1999 Fri, 1 Oct 1999 08:15:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Rod taper theories boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004C_01BF0BE4.BFA3DF20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004C_01BF0BE4.BFA3DF20 BRAVO, Wayne! cheers, Bill-----Original Message-----From: Wayne Cattanach Cc: Tony Young ; Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Date: Thursday, September 30, 1999 2:47 PMSubject: Re: Rod taper theories Interesting reading - as Bill's observations are very correct - =I have used the term 'hinge' for lack of a better word - a blip on a =plotted stress graph - which when the rods were case - seemed to allow = think is at issue here. Each has a particular character of rod that they = My preference - and that is what it is - not to be dictated to =others - is a rod that will perform it's magic on tight brushy streams - =roll casting a far share of time - and I deem a rod with the hinge =better than one without - again a decision of mine and not to be =dictated to others - because that is where I prefer to chase trout. Away = from that situation my rod of choice may not be the most ideal - however=because of the intimacy with the rod I stick with it versus switching to =a more appropriate rod that I have less hours on the stream with.Listen to what we say here - but question authority - do the =tests your self - an ideal situation is a gathering - where there is a =wide variety of rods to sample - then emulate the conditions that you =cast or want the rod to cast at it's best - I have always been amazed at =the flyfishing shows - distance is king - a p.... thing - well if =distance is important fine - but if that isn't the situation the rod =will eventually be used at then you are getting a false sense of the =performance needed.It's interesting for me - or rather humbling - when I trek from =the petite streams I fish here to the vast expanse of the White in =Arkansas - I have caught fish there but a little 6' 3 " rods is =admittedly a bit out of place and the tactic of fishing the little =rivulets that flow off the shelf behind Dale Fulton's house isn't the =common one - this example is to illustrate the gained knowledge that a =maker should acquire - There is a vast arsenal of fine tapers available =to today's rod maker and each is designed for a certain personality - =stream condition - chose wisely and enjoy the chase Wayne ------=_NextPart_000_004C_01BF0BE4.BFA3DF20 Wayne! Bill -----Original = Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Thursday, September 30, 1999 2:47 PMSubject: Re: Rod= theories observations are very correct - I have used the term 'hinge' for = better word - a blip on a plotted stress graph - which when the rods = case - seemed to allow for better roll casting - a feature which I = and that is what I think is at issue here. Each has a particular = conditions. - not to be dictated to others - is a rod that will perform it's = tight brushy streams - roll casting a far share of time - and I deem = with the hinge better than one without - again a decision of mine = be dictated to others - because that is where I prefer to chase = from that situation my rod of choice may not be the most ideal - = because of the intimacy with the rod I stick with it versus = more appropriate rod that I have less hours on the stream =with. = question authority - do the tests your self - an ideal situation is = gathering - where there is a wide variety of rods to sample - then = the conditions that you cast or want the rod to cast at it's best - = always been amazed at the flyfishing shows - distance is king - a = thing - well if distance is important fine - but if that isn't the = the rod will eventually be used at then you are getting a false = performance needed. expanse of the White in Arkansas - I have caught fish there but a = 3 " rods is admittedly a bit out of place and the tactic of = little rivulets that flow off the shelf behind Dale Fulton's house = common one - this example is to illustrate the gained knowledge that = should acquire - There is a vast arsenal of fine tapers available to = rod maker and each is designed for a certain personality - stream = - chose wisely and enjoy the chase Wayne ------=_NextPart_000_004C_01BF0BE4.BFA3DF20-- from HARMS1@prodigy.net Fri Oct 1 07:19:42 1999 Fri, 1 Oct 1999 08:19:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Rod taper theories boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0067_01BF0BE5.406F1020" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01BF0BE5.406F1020 Terry, Yeah, that's about my understanding too. But now, after perhaps =demeaning the "parabolic" action, I gotta confess that I really do love =Paul Young's rods. cheers, Bill-----Original Message-----From: TERENCE ACKLAND Cc: DNHayashi@aol.com ; =Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Thursday, September 30, 1999 4:00 PMSubject: Re: Rod taper theories a fast rod with (inverted fingers) a hinge is just a Garrison =semi-parabolic right? An out and out Parabolic like a para 15 is a = Its all been done before, you take your standard dryfly taper, =whittle some off the butt or add some to the tip and whittle some off = Terry, "Off the record" in this very public place, I would have =to agree with your assessment of the "hinge." Vince Marinaro used to =call the parabolic rod a "paregoric," exactly because of the designed =weakness in its action. But nymphing and roll-casting was not what he =was after. I guess the parabolic rod has its place--some folks like =them--but I don't have much use for the critters in my little kennel of = Cc: Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Adding a 'hinge' to short fast rod and the rod would no = the hell would buy a short fast rod and expect to roll cast = The word 'hinge' is a contemporary term for 'parabolic' = In a message dated 9/28/99 12:36:24 PM Pacific Daylight = Uh oh. This is creating some confusion. It is making = previous posts by Sir D among others I had assumed that = "hinge" was a sine qua non of a good rod because = You have to know when it is helpful and when it is not. = on a short fast rod it is real helpful in roll casting. On = rod it's not needed. If you don't roll cast, you don't = Darryl ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01BF0BE5.406F1020 Terry, Yeah, that's aboutmy = "parabolic" action, I gotta confess that I really do love Paul = rods. Bill -----Original = <Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Thursday, September 30, 1999 4:00 PMSubject: Re: Rod= theoriesBill, a fast rod with (inverted = hinge is just a Garrison semi-parabolic right? An out and out = a para 15 is a completely different animal. Its all been done = you take your standard dryfly taper, whittle some off the butt or = to the tip and whittle some off the butt, computer not necessary. = very public place, I would have to agree with your assessment of = "paregoric," exactly because of the designed weakness = them--but I don't have much use for the critters in my little = Cc: Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Date: Tuesday, = 28, 1999 5:39 PM Subject: Re: Rod taper = longer be be fast, and who the hell would buy a short = contemporary term for 'parabolic' leading us to believe that = qua non of a good rod because without it the rod will = fast rod it is real helpful in roll casting. On a longer or = Darryl ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01BF0BE5.406F1020-- from HARMS1@prodigy.net Fri Oct 1 07:22:28 1999 Fri, 1 Oct 1999 08:22:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Rod taper theories boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0074_01BF0BE5.A60DC5C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0074_01BF0BE5.A60DC5C0 All, Yup. Just as Carsten and Wayne have said, listen to what's being said =and then go out and do whatever pleases you. cheers from another old fart,Bill-----Original Message-----From: scan.oest Date: Friday, October 01, 1999 12:40 AMSubject: Sv: Rod taper theories Australia declared: You'd get the impression paras are the somehow "wild cats" with no =realuse they way they seem to be beaten like a red haired orphan in the =lastfew days. I'm not the only one who rabbits on about the wonders of =the Driggs,the outstanding charistics of the Para 15 the pocket rocketness of = PHY Midge, the exquisit delights of the Perfectionist. Hell, I'm =gettingall figity just thinking about them.These are all great dry fly rods, as well as being excellent =nymphers.What's not to like? I've made two Driggs with GS guides as well as =a fewmore with the conventional hardware and recently a Para 15 with GS =guidesas well. There's something nice about the whisper the line makes as =itshoots through these guides that makes a person go all gooey in the =legs. The world needs more "hinges" I say. Tony I=B4ve avoided participating in this on - a can =B4o worms Bill =called it, and rightly so.Let me just add a very personal opinion: For all kind of trout =fishing, all one needs isa Para 15 and a The Perfectionist. That will take care of howling =winds, big WollyWorms, finicky trout on #22 dries - You name it. If I were to have =but one rod: Para 15. I must say I am glad I did not started my rodbuilding experience =with PHY tapers. Nowthat would have limited the No. of different rods to build. So all =You guys just startingYour rodbuilding trip: Make=B4m all - long, short, para, quick, =slow, flamed, blond - andYou will end up finding YOUR favourite taper and rod. And from Your =own experience,not the ideas of "old" farts like Yours truly Carsten PS.: PHY reigns forever :-))) ------=_NextPart_000_0074_01BF0BE5.A60DC5C0 All, Yup. Just asCarsten = have said, listen to what's being said and then go out and do whatever pleases you. cheers fromanother = fart,Bill -----Original = Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Friday, October 01, 1999 12:40 AMSubject: Sv: Rod = great dry fly rods, as well as being excellent = to like? I've made two Driggs with GS guides as well as a = = just add a very personal opinion: For all kind of trout fishing, all = needs isa Para 15 and a The Perfectionist. That will take care = howling winds, big WollyWorms, finicky trout on #22 dries - You = If I were to have but one rod: Para 15.I must say I am glad = not started my rodbuilding experience with PHY tapers. Nowthat = have limited the No. of different rods to build. So all You guys = startingYour rodbuilding trip: Make´m all - long, short, = quick, slow, flamed, blond - andYou will end up finding YOUR = "old" farts likeYours = reigns forever :-))) ------=_NextPart_000_0074_01BF0BE5.A60DC5C0-- from leroyt@involved.com Fri Oct 1 08:43:46 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61049U4500L450S0V35)with SMTP id com; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 06:42:18 -0700 Subject: Re: fly lines boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005B_01BF0BD9.587A92E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005B_01BF0BD9.587A92E0 Read the description of the fly line in question and sounds like the =rest of E.F. Payne site. Need I say more, as we had this same discussion =a couple months ago. Leroy................. ------=_NextPart_000_005B_01BF0BD9.587A92E0 =FF=FE=00==0D=00=0A==00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00R=00e=00a=00d=00=00t=00h=00e=00 ==00d=00e=00s=00c=00r=00i=00p=00t=00i=00o=00n=00 =00o=00f=00 ==00t=00h=00e=00 =00f=00l=00y=00 =00l=00i=00n=00e=00 =00i=00n=00=00=0D=00=0A==00q=00u=00e=00s=00t=00i=00o=00n=00 =00a=00n=00d=00 ==00s=00o=00u=00n=00d=00s=00 =00l=00i=00k=00e=00 =00t=00h=00e=00==00r=00e=00s=00t=00 =00o=00f=00 =00E=00.=00F=00.=00 ==00P=00a=00y=00n=00e=00 =00s=00i=00t=00e=00.=00=00N=00e=00e=00d=00 ==00I=00 =00s=00a=00y=00 =00m=00o=00r=00e=00,=00 =00a=00s=00=00w=00e=00 ==00h=00a=00d=00 =00=0D=00=0A==00t=00h=00i=00s=00 =00s=00a=00m=00e=00 ==00d=00i=00s=00c=00u=00s=00s=00i=00o=00n=00 =00a=00 ==00c=00o=00u=00p=00l=00e=00 =00m=00o=00n=00t=00h=00s=00 ==00a=00g=00o=00.=00 =00=0D=00=0A==00L=00e=00r=00o=00y=00.=00.=00.=00.=00.=00.=00.=00.=00.=00.=00.=00.=00.=00=.=00.=00.=00.=00=00=00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00------=_NextPart_000_005B_01BF0BD9.587A92E0-- from saweiss@flash.net Fri Oct 1 09:14:28 1999 Subject: Re: Pratt Lambert URL Needed Mike,I don't have a URL but here's their phone number:800-876-7005Steve Weiss Sorry for the bandwidth, but I can't seem to locate a Pratt&Lambertstorehere in Atlanta and was wondering if anyone could help me with a url soIcould get hold of them on the net (trying to locate some Varmor r-10)Thanks, Mike from saweiss@flash.net Fri Oct 1 09:21:23 1999 Subject: Re: Binding from thinner side Max,I tried it on my last rod, on which I was also trying Resorcinol for thefirst time. The strips were very unstable and kept unrolling out towardthebutt and were flopping around a lot. The glue was starting to get tacky, soI quickly turned the strips around and bound them from the butt end. If Itry this again, I will have to extend the support arms to support the fulllength of the strips and will leave the last bit of tape uncut to preventthe bundle from unrolling.Steve Weiss Hello list, One of my friends found recently that Garrison/Carmichael wrote tostartbinding from thinner side of tip section in their book (page 90, 91).I have been binding from thicker side of sections and remembered thephenomenahow the tip top portion got twisted while binding on Garrison stylebinder. Is it rational in binding from thinner side? Such as it would protect thetip top portion bebroken on the binder? Lessing the twist? I am curious how the professional or experienced rod makers startbindingespecially tip sections.Any experienced opinion is appreciated on how to protect the break of tiptop while binding andlessing the effect of twist. Thanks in advance, Max Max Rod Craft, an oriental rod crafteremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:http://members.tripod.com/maxrod from HALLOWELLMA@atgl.spear.navy.mil Fri Oct 1 11:10:191999Received: from ATGNT2.atgl.spear.navy.mil (atgl.spear.navy.mil (5.5.2232.9) "\"'bkelley@columbus.rr.com'\" " ,"\"Coffey; Patrick W\" " Subject: RE: Fly Line Cleaner & wax Does this dress the line as well as clean? Mark ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: RE: Fly Line Cleaner & waxAuthor: "Coffey; Patrick W" [SMTP:Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com] atATGLANT ask your druggist for it. mine had to order it for me, it's scentless face cleaner (make up) for women. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ----------From: Brendan W. Kelley[SMTP:bkelley@columbus.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 5:33 AM Subject: Re: Fly Line Cleaner & wax At 03:03 PM 9/27/99 -0600, you wrote:. . . and one of those twelve dollar tubs will last a very long time. It's great stuff. Coffey, Patrick W wrote: you can get a tub of "albolene" from the drug store for about six bucks that not only dresses silk fly lines but is a great fly floatent, it'swhat gink is. The tub is about the size of a small cottage cheese container. Patrick W. Coffey I'll ask the obvious newbie question: what's it sold for/where's itlocated in the drug store? They hadn't heard of it at my local store, and Icouldn't help them. Brendan W. Kelleybkelley@columbus.rr.com from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Fri Oct 1 11:49:25 1999 10:03:34 PDT Subject: Fiber Granger Rod Tube A friend is looking for a fiber Granger Rod tube for a 9' Victory rod. Anyone have an orphan rod tube or know of one available. Thanks. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from fiveside@net-gate.com Fri Oct 1 14:02:09 1999 ns1.net-gate.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA28463; Fri, 1 Oct 199914:56:49 -0400 Subject: Geometries and Tapers To the ListSomewhere in the messages dealing with these subjects someone,perhaps TomSmithwick, suggested matching section modulus as a method forduplicatingactions between the three geometries since matching areas and matchingstress curves really do not work well for this purpose. I just had to trythis new idea since this subject is of great interest to me. So Iresurrected my old hand calculator which does cube roots well, and mynotes from Len Histand and went to work. Don't try this unless you are retiredsince it is quite a task. I used Garrison's 204E as the reference since wehave working examples of this taper in all geometries for comparison. The results were disappointing.This is what I found: for quads, matching section modulus results in ataper with diameters about 4 percent smaller (thinner) than matchingareas.This is in the wrong direction since thinner means slower and the quadsarealready inherently slower than hex with matched areas. thicker than matching areas. This is also in the wrong direction sincethicker means quicker (and heavier) and pentas are already inherentlyquicker than hex with matching areas. The solution seems to lie in developing unique stress (personality)curves newwork is really needed. For quads the highly successful tapers such asZimny's use a totally different stress curve which seems to work verywellindeed. For pentas there is a void of knowledge. Maybe Uslan's productscould provide some insight. My own best pentas use Garrison's stresscurveand suit me well, but there is the nagging feeling that improvements arepossible, particularly in weight reduction. I avoid using area matchingwithpentas because stresses go up and must be watched. Garrison was right inthat department. Anyone interested in this section modulus work, I'll be glad to supplyinfo off list. But my degree is EE not ME so be warned. BillPS Ohms law doesn't help much here. from eestlow@srminc.com Fri Oct 1 14:31:47 1999 Subject: Re: Geometries and Tapers 1999) at 10/01/9902:25:50 PM Bill, I was one of the discussion members talking about section modulus. Mybackground is aerospace & mechanics, but I've yet to design or make a rod.Darryl's experiment with quad, penta, and hex versions of the Sir D isexactly what I'd like to do myself to follow some of this stuff up. Infact, I just an hour ago sent him a post on this but it bounced, as far asI can tell. I was wondering what, if any, the natural frequency has to dowith things. I'd have to dust off the textbooks myself, but I believe eachsection (quad, penta, or hex) has a different natural frequency even forthe same section modulus. I would like to see any information you'd care to share. Thanks in advance. Best,-Ed fiveside@net-gate.com Sent by: cc: AJGott@aol.comowner-rodmakers@wugate Subject: Geometries andTapers.wustl.edu 10/01/99 01:56 PMPlease respond tofiveside To the ListSomewhere in the messages dealing with these subjects someone,perhapsTomSmithwick, suggested matching section modulus as a method forduplicatingactions between the three geometries since matching areas and matchingstress curves really do not work well for this purpose. I just had to trythis new idea since this subject is of great interest to me. So Iresurrected my old hand calculator which does cube roots well, and mynotes from Len Histand and went to work. Don't try this unless you are retiredsince it is quite a task. I used Garrison's 204E as the reference since wehave working examples of this taper in all geometries for comparison.The results were disappointing.This is what I found: for quads, matching section modulus results in ataper with diameters about 4 percent smaller (thinner) than matchingareas.This is in the wrong direction since thinner means slower and the quadsarealready inherently slower than hex with matched areas. thicker than matching areas. This is also in the wrong direction sincethicker means quicker (and heavier) and pentas are already inherentlyquicker than hex with matching areas.The solution seems to lie in developing unique stress (personality)curves newwork is really needed. For quads the highly successful tapers such asZimny's use a totally different stress curve which seems to work verywellindeed. For pentas there is a void of knowledge. Maybe Uslan's productscould provide some insight. My own best pentas use Garrison's stresscurveand suit me well, but there is the nagging feeling that improvements arepossible, particularly in weight reduction. I avoid using area matchingwithpentas because stresses go up and must be watched. Garrison was right inthat department.Anyone interested in this section modulus work, I'll be glad to supplyinfo off list. But my degree is EE not ME so be warned. BillPS Ohms law doesn't help much here. from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Oct 1 14:53:44 1999 Subject: Re: Geometries and Tapers I vote for developing unique stress curves for each geometry, becausewhen I made a quad, penta and hex with equivalent cross-sectionalarea, each rod had it's own unique casting characteristics. I see anopportunity to develop a "better" casting rod. The first step to this end is to make a quad (or penta) that casts justlike a hex, carefully noting what changes are needed to make it do so.I think in understanding this we will get a better understanding of whatis happening with the quad (penta) that makes it cast differently. Oneintuitive difference with a penta is that apex giving the rod a "backbone"and therefore making it stiffer, so a thinner diameter should make it castlike a hex. The quad is a puzzle though. Why does it seem overly soft or slow withshort casts but when the bend gets down into the butt it seems to stiffenup? I am looking forward to this discussion. Darryl from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Oct 1 15:13:44 1999 Subject: Re: Geometries and Tapers With just a little time to think about the subject, I think one of the tests I should putthe rods through is the time honored Deflection Board test. I'll have to set one upfirst, but it might be a good place to start.Darryl from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Oct 1 16:20:01 1999 Subject: Re: Geometries and Tapers rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 10/1/99 7:08:06 PM, fiveside@net-gate.com wrote: Bill - Are you sure you got the penta numbers right? I was using the comparison in Ray Gould's book (pg 79), which has the penta theoretically1% stiffer than the hex. Therefore, you would build it 1% lighter than the hex, which makes more sense. Your quad numbers agree with Ray, and I agree that such a rod would feel soft, but I was talking about overall performance, I think it would handle about the same amount of line. I do have to admit that I have no idea whythe quads feel softer at first, but seem to shrug off the load as line length increases. The only thing that makes sense to me is that the outer power fibers are closer to the centerline, accounting for the softer feel, but the outer edge is also wider, putting more material where it counts. I havealso heard some theories that the relationship between a hex and a quad in stiffness is not linear, and that the quad stiffness becomes more evidentin larger cross sections. There may be something to that, but none of theabove seems to be predicted by the math. from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Fri Oct 1 17:49:16 1999 16:03:30 PDT Subject: Bamboo arrow shafts Here is some interesting information I saw on e-bay. I had been planning to make arrows in the same way rods are made, mostly for a novelty, but also assuming they would be extremely tough and resilient compared to standard cedar shafts. Might also be made in small diameter and stillshow a high spine weight, which is a desirable characteristic in wood arrows. I think A.J. Thramer or someone else on this list had mentioned that Wes Jordan had messed around with this idea at some point in the past. This brochure seems to confirm that. P.S. I know this has nothing to do with bamboo rodmaking, but I thought it was interesting. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu This RARE 1930 Folding Brochure from the South Bend Bait Co. of SouthBend,Indiana, throughly describes their Oreno Multi Laminated Bamboo Longbow, OrenoMulti Laminated Bamboo Stave, and Oreno Multi Laminated Flight and Target Arrowsand Shafts. Unfolded it measures 7" x 11" and is printed in green and black. TheseOreno Bows, Staves, and Arrows and shafts, are extremely rare andwere onlyproduced from about 1928 - 1933. It would appear that they were just too costly toproduce because of the labor intensiveness of the product. Lucky is the man who ownsone! These brochures are probably even more rare because of the throw away natureof the item, and the fact that they were worn out very easily from reading. HighlyIllustrated. Much description of the bows, staves, and arrows. The cost of the bow in1930 was $45.00. The arrows which were made like a Split Bamboo Fly Rod with notonly 6 sections of bamboo, but also 6 sections of balsa wood on the inside forlightness. A total of 12 laminated pieces per arrow. Can you Imagine? No wonder theysold for $24.00 a dozen. from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Fri Oct 1 18:27:47 1999 with ESMTP id ;Fri, 1 Oct 1999 23:27:13 +0000 Subject: Re: First Rod Jeez, Tony! NINE rods?? Watch it, they'll call you a "production" rodmaker! Butt seriously, congrats on the Sir D! It was my first one too. "Younever forget your first"! Regarding lines... I use a DT4F on mine and it works really well. Ihave tried a WF5F and that works too but it slows the rod down a bit. If you want to shoot line or cast very short distances try the WF5F. Ifyou want to make soft presentations and not spook fish (like I'm soprone to doing) try the DT4F. These are just guidelines based on mylimited experience. Your results might vary depending on your castingstyle, fishing conditions, etc. My opinion: Start with the 4 weight double taper and go from there. Dennis Tony Spezio wrote: I finally fished my first rod, The Sir "D". What adelightful rod to cast. Was out in the morning onthe White with my 9' G------- rod and the windhowling up a storm. Got a few trout. That eveningI got an invitation to fish Crooked Creek anddecided what better time to get it christened. Ihad lawn cast the Sir "D" and it felt good butwith a little load on it from the water it is abeauty. The pickup and shooting the line feltbetter than the 9' I had used in the morning. Ihad visions of the old bamboo rods I had fished inthe past, (real soft) this rod changed all ofthat. I was using a WF 4 F, that was what is onthe reel at this time, any advise as to what linedoes best. That line does real good on the creek,it may take a little more loading on a windy day,on the White.I did C & R 17 nice Bluegill and Goggle eye bass.Finished rod # 2 on Tuesday, this rod went to mynew Son in Law. Hope it casts as well as # 1.Thanks for all the help from the list. It tooknine years, but without the little push from a fewon the list I probably would still beprocrastinating. Blanks 3 to 9 are now glued upand waiting for ferrules and guides to beinstalled. Christmas is not too far off, got toget moving on them.Heading for the Conclave this morning, Harry willbe there demoing Rodmaking.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com -- I know I'm insane, but it's the only thing that keeps me from goingcrazy! from fiveside@net-gate.com Fri Oct 1 18:54:35 1999 ns1.net-gate.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA22322 for; Subject: Tapers etc To Tom and the List The table on page 79 of Ray Gould's book deal with moment of inertiawhichis NOT the same concept as section modulus and judgments based on thatinfomay lead you to vastly different conclusions. Moment of inertia is one ofthe factors considered in section modulus calculations. Bill from CAdams46@compuserve.com Fri Oct 1 19:41:57 1999 Subject: Bamboo Arrow Shafts Well along the same idea as Chris's Arrow Shafts during my free time lastweek I expirimented with building a bamboo shafted golf club. Golf beingmy other passon. Well anyway despite Garison's conclusion I thought itmade a great club and I got several complements at the pro shop. Thoughtit was a bit interesting.C.R. Adams from flytyr@southshore.com Fri Oct 1 19:53:44 1999 Subject: Re: First Rod Dennis,Thanks for the info. I picked up a 5 WF today and am looking for a 4 DT.Will give them both a try.Production rods, heck no. The forms were set up and I had bamboo split,whywaste time. They are all spoken for anyway. I can't just give one to onefamily member, have to take care of them all.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Dennis Haftel wrote: Jeez, Tony! NINE rods?? Watch it, they'll call you a "production" rodmaker! Butt seriously, congrats on the Sir D! It was my first one too. "Younever forget your first"! Regarding lines... I use a DT4F on mine and it works really well. Ihave tried a WF5F and that works too but it slows the rod down a bit.If you want to shoot line or cast very short distances try the WF5F. Ifyou want to make soft presentations and not spook fish (like I'm soprone to doing) try the DT4F. These are just guidelines based on mylimited experience. Your results might vary depending on your castingstyle, fishing conditions, etc. economy disclaimer!> My opinion: Start with the 4 weight double taper and go from there. Dennis Tony Spezio wrote: I finally fished my first rod, The Sir "D". What adelightful rod to cast. Was out in the morning onthe White with my 9' G------- rod and the windhowling up a storm. Got a few trout. That eveningI got an invitation to fish Crooked Creek anddecided what better time to get it christened. Ihad lawn cast the Sir "D" and it felt good butwith a little load on it from the water it is abeauty. The pickup and shooting the line feltbetter than the 9' I had used in the morning. Ihad visions of the old bamboo rods I had fished inthe past, (real soft) this rod changed all ofthat. I was using a WF 4 F, that was what is onthe reel at this time, any advise as to what linedoes best. That line does real good on the creek,it may take a little more loading on a windy day,on the White.I did C & R 17 nice Bluegill and Goggle eye bass.Finished rod # 2 on Tuesday, this rod went to mynew Son in Law. Hope it casts as well as # 1.Thanks for all the help from the list. It tooknine years, but without the little push from a fewon the list I probably would still beprocrastinating. Blanks 3 to 9 are now glued upand waiting for ferrules and guides to beinstalled. Christmas is not too far off, got toget moving on them.Heading for the Conclave this morning, Harry willbe there demoing Rodmaking.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com --I know I'm insane, but it's the only thing that keeps me from goingcrazy! from rafick@fwi.com Fri Oct 1 20:23:58 1999 Subject: bastard bamboo Hello All On 9-12-99 I made a product review post on George Gehrke's Happy Hookerflyrod, Did by chance anyone happen to save that post ?... if not how can Iget it ? ( yes I should have saved it myself ) ThanksRick R.A.Fick Bamboo Rod Co.The best rods are being made today.www.angelfire.com/in2/rafickrods/ from freaner@gte.net Fri Oct 1 21:00:29 1999 Subject: Re: bastard bamboo At 8:15 PM -0500 on 10/1/99, R.A.Fick wrote: Hello All On 9-12-99 I made a product review post on George Gehrke's HappyHookerflyrod, Did by chance anyone happen to save that post ?... if not how can Iget it ? ( yes I should have saved it myself ) I just forwarded the messages back to Rick. Claude from lars32@gateway.net Fri Oct 1 21:05:02 1999 Subject: Steve Trauthwein boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF0C50.BEB4CC20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF0C50.BEB4CC20 Regarding groove in Plane. I got several answers and it finally sunk in. =Thanks for your response. It makes sense finally. Dave N. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF0C50.BEB4CC20 Regarding groove in Plane. I got = and it finally sunk in. Thanks for your response. It makes sense = N. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF0C50.BEB4CC20-- from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Fri Oct 1 21:07:59 1999 Subject: Re: Bamboo Arrow Shafts Chase, Just don't try and sell the bamboo shafts. In April of 1998 patent number5,743,809 was issued for bamboo golf shafts. I attached the abstract. Paul United States Patent 5,743,809Lehman April 28, 1998 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Bamboo golf club shaft AbstractA golf club with shaft made from bamboo strips. The steps involved inmakinga shaft from bamboo include: dividing a bamboo cane into at least fivestrips of bamboo, trimming the bamboo strips to size, gluing the bamboostrips together to form a head end and grip end, and installing a golf clubhead on the head end and a grip on the grip end. The shaft can be tapered orstraight, have just one layer or more than one layer of bamboo, it can besolid, hollow or have a center made out of another material such as steel. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Bamboo Arrow Shafts Well along the same idea as Chris's Arrow Shafts during my free timelastweek I expirimented with building a bamboo shafted golf club. Golfbeingmy other passon. Well anyway despite Garison's conclusion I thought itmade a great club and I got several complements at the pro shop. Thoughtit was a bit interesting.C.R. Adams from rafick@fwi.com Fri Oct 1 21:38:10 1999 Subject: bastard bamboo post Thank you to all R.A.Fick Bamboo Rod Co.The best rods are being made today.www.angelfire.com/in2/rafickrods/ from edriddle@mindspring.com Sat Oct 2 08:20:14 1999 Subject: Fw: Help with Finishing boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF0CA3.4D3E6300" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF0CA3.4D3E6300 Lou:I've used MINWAX FAST-DRYING POLYURETHANE CLEAR GLOSS on a couplerods =(prior to adding wraps) and was pleased, but I would not recommend it = ambering result. The label on the aforementioned product recommends =MINWAX POLYCRYLIC PROTECTIVE FINISH for "light-colored wood surfaces". =I haven't tried the latter product.No relationship with Minwax, yada,yada.....Ed-----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Help with Finishing Lou, Buy a pint (if you can) of some high quality polyurethane, "high-gloss" =finish. The brand doesn't matter a great deal. Although there are some =differences among poly finishes, these aren't significant enough to =matter much in terms of your practical needs. (I imagine you'll hear =some other folks become excited about this last statement.) cheers, Bill -----Original Message----- Subject: Help with Finishing Hello, I would like to thank this group for the quick responces I =got to thelast question I asked, you guy's and gals are GREAT! Now for the next question, what is the best way to apply the finish =to a newly ThanksThe Amatuer Rod BuilderLou ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF0CA3.4D3E6300 Lou:I've used= POLYURETHANE CLEAR GLOSS on a couple rods (prior to adding wraps) and = pleased, but I would not recommend it for a light-colored rod unless = product recommends MINWAX POLYCRYLIC PROTECTIVE FINISH for = product.No relationship with Minwax, =yada,yada.....Ed-----Original = <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Thursday, September 30, 1999 12:14 PMSubject: Re: Help = FinishingLou, Buy a pint (if you= poly finishes, these aren't significant enough to matter much in terms = about this last statement.) Bill -----Original = lpiccoli@us.ibm.com = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu=<rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Wednesday, September 29, 1999 7:44 PMSubject: Help Finishing thelast question I asked, you guy's and gals are = newlywrapped bamboo flyrod? ThanksThe Amatuer BuilderLou ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF0CA3.4D3E6300-- from sniderja@email.uc.edu Sat Oct 2 14:07:44 1999 Subject: nodeless splices A week ago or so Tom Smithwick came up with an excellent idea of using awood chisel (with the grain) to initially remove large amounts of bamboo from strips in the splicing block prior to touching up the splice with aplane/file. This works like a charm! However, I then tried the same trickusing a bamboo froe (with gloves!!), drawing the froe towards the front ofthe splicing block sort of like a spoke shave. For me, at least, thelatter required less effort, took fewer strokes, and left a much smoothercut. One to two strokes with the plane, a lick with a file and the splicewas done. This method also cut almost a minute off of each splice. Wow!!Thanks, Tom, for an excellent idea for the nodeless folks! J. Snider from sats@gte.net Sat Oct 2 16:45:45 1999 Subject: Re: Rod taper theories ...It's interesting for me - or rather humbling - when I trek from thepetite streamsI fish here to the vast expanse of the White in Arkansas - I have caughtfish there buta little 6' 3 " rods is admittedly a bit out of place ... Wayne, Not at all... I've never been one to believe that length of rod is the true measure of thetool. I like my rods short. I've got some 6'3'' that will put out enough lineto fish the White, or any other large stream, as well as the 9 ft graphitejobs. I also have a few longer rods. But I like to change around a lot... and as yousuggest, experiment. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from rvenneri@ulster.net Sun Oct 3 06:53:03 1999 Subject: list down Is the list down or is my server down. No mail for 2 days. Best regardsBob V from rvenneri@ulster.net Sun Oct 3 07:30:49 1999 Subject: web site update Hi Guys,I guess the list is slow.I am updateing my web page. If any of you guyswho buy seats from me would like to get on my page of Rodmakers who useVenneris Custom Components please take a min to drop me a line withyoururl so I can add it. Noemally I would not put something like this on thelist,but as there is nothing going on I thought iiit would be ok. Best regardsBob VVenneri's21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882http://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index.html from channer@hubwest.com Sun Oct 3 09:17:30 1999 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A5D54740196; Sun, 03 Oct 1999 08:19:01 MST Subject: Re: list down At 07:49 AM 10/04/1999 -0400, Robert Venneri wrote:Is the list down or is my server down. No mail for 2 days. Best regardsBob V Bob;Must be you, I got this thru the list. I think things are just slow thisweekend, I only got a few yesterday myself.John from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Oct 3 09:50:41 1999 Subject: Re: Rod taper theories Sean,the parabolic taper offers advantages in many situations and is a genuineinnovation.Taking a dry fly taper and removing it's backbone, calling it semi-parabolicor 'hinged' is another story.Terry Sean McSharry wrote: Bill, also Terry and Carsten and Tony: I thank you for your detailedcommentary about the perceived problem with Parabolic rods. As onewhois principally interested in angling and the rod as a potentiallyexquisite tool in the process, I mention that my first introduction thethe Parabolic was a Pezon & Michel PPP Super- Marvel 7' 2" Parabolic.This has been a fine rod and I still like to try it on smaller streams,and have settled on a WF-4 Phoenix silk line for it. Personally I havenot encountered Parabolic rods from hell. I have had a number of canerods that I could not get along with, but none were Parabolic. I guessmy problem with some of the commentary is that it seems to visit uponParabolics only, the sins of poor rod design. In this way it comes acrossas somewhat Halfordian in tone, or reminiscent of The Nymph Debate atthe Flyfishers Club in February 1938. Carsten. You might have inspired the following that is justappearing in the 4th Arts of Angling supplement to the NSW Rod FishersSociety bi-monthly Bulletin: "The rod that fascinates some is the Parabolic. This is a rod that loadsall the weay down into the handle when there is sufficient line out. Inone sense slow, as it takes time to load up, in another it is fast, aswhen loaded it propels the line like a slingshot, backwards or forwards.It needs good timing, but contrary to some comments, it is notrestricted to long casting. Short casts may also be accomplished, butneed more vigour from the angler. Well controlled, a Parabolic is aninstrument of great sweetness. "Individual styles are everything to do with rods. A recent Internetitem from an American rodmaker was about a Parabolic that he made forhimself, and that he liked a great deal. A leading casting expert tookit out and tried it for some time, during which the line constantlydraped itself around him. He handed it back to the maker and saidsomething to the effect that it didn't cast a darn. Later, anotherexpert cast out the entire line with just two false casts, and insistedon buying the rod from the maker... Best of all, have different moods,fish diverse waters, and let different types of rod tell you what theyare capable of doing!" Please forgive the use of bandwith that I hope is not irregular. Sean WILLIAM A HARMS wrote: Part 1.1 Type: Plain Text (text/plain)Encoding: quoted-printable from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Oct 3 12:43:05 1999 Subject: Heddon #17 Black Beauty 9' 3 pc List,Here is the taper that I promised on the Black Beauty 9' 3 Pc. Says HDH for the line but I use a wgt fwd 5 for nymphing on this rod.0 = .70 5 = .815 This is orange wraps black tipping. Measured over 10 = .104 varnish so I would allow .004 on tips and .006 on mid15 = .117 section and butt. Full Wells grip bakelite reelseat. Nice20 = .129 slow action rod and a real pleasure to fish. I have used 25 = .144 it all day while wading the Pere Marquette from access 30 = .1585 to access with no fatigue like you would expect from a 35 = .173 long rod.40 = .17645 = .191 Bret50 = .20855 = .21960 = .23765 = .25270 = .262575 = .26680 = .280585 = .29590 = .30995 = .32597 = .33198 = .344 swell begins99 = .382100 = .4115101 = .440105 = .440110 = .440 from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Oct 3 12:56:10 1999 Subject: Leonard 8' 2 Pc 6 wgt List, Here is another rod I decided to measure while I had out my Black Beauty. This is the rod I told you about that Carl Richards thought I was double hauling because it throws such a long line with no effort.0 = .735 = .9210 = .116 This is a blond rod with untapered cigar grip, brown wraps 15 = .124 with black tipping. There are no markings other than 20 = .1385 H.L. Leonard engraved in the reelseat cap. Measured with 25 = .148 very thin varnish. I would allow .002 on this rod both tips30 = .159 and .004 on the butt.35 = .17440 = .182 Bret45 = .20150 = .21855 = .23060 = .24265 = .255570 = .27075 = .28480 = .30785 = .31490 = .32395 = .32396 = .323 from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Oct 3 12:59:46 1999 Subject: Re: Heddon #17 Black Beauty 9' 3 pc List,This rod has a #2 ferrule. The way this posted is not the way I typed it and sent it out. I don't know why my e-mails get so screwed up. Sorryguys.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Oct 3 13:03:33 1999 Subject: Re: Leonard 8' 2 Pc 6 wgt List, This is the way i typed up th Heddon mail so why did this one comeout OK?Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Oct 3 13:36:35 1999 Subject: Bernard Hills 6'3" 6wght 2 pcs. Tip Butt0 = .76 35 = .20055 = .92 40 = .21210 = .1125 45 = .23715 = .134 50 = .252520 = .1485 55 = .26225 = .163 60 = .280530 = .180 65 = .28835 = .2005 70 = .28840 = .212 75 = .288 This is a rod that Bernard built for me to fish the Dowagiac Creek behindhis house.It is a sweet rod for small streams. I used this rod to catch a 29" Brown Trout on the Pere Marquette one evening with a hex fly. Cigar grip with thread wrapped up on grip. Gold wraps black tipping like was used on the 1000 series of rods from Heddon. For you that don't know Bernard was in charge of the bamboo rod shop at Heddon until they quit production ofbamboo. He built me three rods all matching. This one and two 7'6' rods one 3 pc the other 2 pc. Two pc throws a 5 ,3 pc throws a 4. I will post those later if anyone wants them.Bret from CAdams46@compuserve.com Sun Oct 3 14:57:50 1999 Subject: Arrow Shafts Thanks fellows. I've been golfing longer than I've been fly rodding andother than Garrisons book I'd never heard of anyone even interested inbamboo golf club shafts. Dosen't seem patentable to me but what do Iknow.I had no intention of selling them. So do any of you good golfers outthere have one of the patented store bought ones? I am a little curious ifyou think it is a better material than graphite or metal? C.R. Adams from mrj@aa.net Sun Oct 3 18:06:30 1999 Subject: flaming cane torch setup This is mainly to the several people that I sent attachments to of myPropane torch nozzle that I built. I was thinking that you were talkingabout flaming cane and this is my torch set up but.... I don't know if youreally need something like this for just flaming or coloring the cane. Thereason I built and use this is because I do not use an oven to temper mycane. I temper with this torch so I flame at the same time I temper. Thatiswhy I take about 20 minutes or more to flame 1/2 of a 6ft. section (I flipend for end when one end is done and colored to my liking. Because I amslowly heating it up and driving out the moisture and curing it as an ovenwould do. If I just wanted to color the cane I probably would just use aregular torch, though this setup of mine would certainly do the trick.I hope this explains my approach. Martin Jensen from anglport@con2.com Sun Oct 3 20:33:25 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A3AD3E600FC; Sun, 03 Oct 1999 21:32:29 -0400 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Arrow Shafts Chase,The first time I met Hoagy Carmichael, I noticed a man's picture onthewall of his home and I asked the obvious question. Not only was it indeedhis Dad; the shaft he'd been working while demo-ing the methods in hisjust-published book wasn't a flyrod, it was a putter he was making FORhisfather! Thay may have been recently patented, but they ain't a new concept!Art At 03:56 PM 10/03/1999 -0400, Chase R Adams wrote:Thanks fellows. I've been golfing longer than I've been fly rodding andother than Garrisons book I'd never heard of anyone even interested inbamboo golf club shafts. Dosen't seem patentable to me but what do Iknow.I had no intention of selling them. So do any of you good golfers outthere have one of the patented store bought ones? I am a little curious ifyou think it is a better material than graphite or metal? C.R. Adams from caneman@clnk.com Sun Oct 3 20:51:52 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Sun, 3 Oct 1999 20:51:04 -0500 Subject: Finishes boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001D_01BF0DE1.1AE85660" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01BF0DE1.1AE85660 I thought I had posted this to the list yesterday, but I screwed up... =Sorry Ed, I didn't mean to send it to only you, meant for everyone to =have it. Nite,Bob Lou,I have gone through a lot of varnishes and poly's and my favorite by =far is Pratt and Lambert Varmor R-10. It's expensive, but it is a very =good quality Poly. As far as how to apply it... I use a dipping tank =system with a variable speed gear motor. That way I can adjust the = Bob Nunley PS: Good to be back! Sure have missed this list. ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01BF0DE1.1AE85660 I thought I had posted this to the= yesterday, but I screwed up... Sorry Ed, I didn't mean to send it to = meant for everyone to have it. Nite,Bob Lou, varnishes and poly's and my favorite by far is Pratt and Lambert Bob Nunley list. ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01BF0DE1.1AE85660-- from sats@gte.net Sun Oct 3 21:08:18 1999 Subject: Re: First Rod I did C & R 17 nice Bluegill and Goggle eye bass.You're one of the few people I've ever heard talk of a Goggle eye. Glad the rod worked out for you. Hope to see you next year at NOARK. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from teekay35@interlynx.net Sun Oct 3 23:08:06 1999 Subject: Re: Arrow Shafts I worked as a busboy in a golf club from 1949/1950 and saw alot ofbambooshafted golf clubs. I think I've read somewhere that Orvis made golf clubshafts after World War II. ----------From: Art Port Subject: Re: Arrow ShaftsDate: Sunday, October 03, 1999 9:35 PM Chase,The first time I met Hoagy Carmichael, I noticed a man's picture onthewall of his home and I asked the obvious question. Not only was it indeedhis Dad; the shaft he'd been working while demo-ing the methods in hisjust-published book wasn't a flyrod, it was a putter he was making FORhisfather! Thay may have been recently patented, but they ain't a newconcept!Art At 03:56 PM 10/03/1999 -0400, Chase R Adams wrote:Thanks fellows. I've been golfing longer than I've been fly rodding andother than Garrisons book I'd never heard of anyone even interested inbamboo golf club shafts. Dosen't seem patentable to me but what do Iknow.I had no intention of selling them. So do any of you good golfers outthere have one of the patented store bought ones? I am a little curiousifyou think it is a better material than graphite or metal? C.R. Adams from irish-george@pacbell.net Sun Oct 3 23:18:55 1999 Subject: Re: list down I've tried to post a couple of times only to have it kicked back by thelistserver (claiming I'm not a subscriber)...it hasn't dropped me as asubscriber, but now it seems to be trying to match my account name on mynewserver (as an e-mail address) with its list rather than using mynewsreader-supplied e-mail address as it has in the past. Anyone else having such problems? George Bourke-----Original Message----- Subject: list down Is the list down or is my server down. No mail for 2 days. Best regardsBob V from irish-george@pacbell.net Sun Oct 3 23:28:45 1999 Subject: Re: Arrow Shafts I responded to this yesterday only to have the listserver kick it back.Here goes again: I don't think the patent (1998) would hold up as Paul French has beenmakingand selling bamboo shaft putters longer than that (in Len Codella'scatalogs http://www.uspto.govand look up the patent. It is for shafts that are made of MINIMUM 1.5"diameter and 5 or more strips...so, I would guess that quads would benon-infringing, nodeless would be non-infringing (the patent specifiesnodespacing), etc., etc. George Bourke -----Original Message----- Subject: Arrow Shafts Thanks fellows. I've been golfing longer than I've been fly rodding andother than Garrisons book I'd never heard of anyone even interested inbamboo golf club shafts. Dosen't seem patentable to me but what do Iknow.I had no intention of selling them. So do any of you good golfers outthere have one of the patented store bought ones? I am a little curious ifyou think it is a better material than graphite or metal?C.R. Adams from darrell@rockclimbing.org Sun Oct 3 23:36:24 1999 Subject: Has anyone heard of a rod maker named David Dennis? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0109_01BF0DE7.530F95C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0109_01BF0DE7.530F95C0 I just obtained a custom built rod made by David Dennis. It appears to =be made in the 60's or 70's... It's an 8.5' 3/2 about a 6-7wt rod with =blonde cane, aluminum reel seat and the NS ferrules appear to be custom =made stepdowns not super Z's. Anybody know him? Regards, Darrell Lee ------=_NextPart_000_0109_01BF0DE7.530F95C0 I just = built rod made by David Dennis. It appears to be made in the 60's or = It's an 8.5' 3/2 about a 6-7wt rod with blonde cane, aluminum reel seat = NS ferrules appear to be custom made stepdowns not super =Z's. Anybody knowhim? Regards, Darrell =Lee ------=_NextPart_000_0109_01BF0DE7.530F95C0-- from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Oct 4 09:04:06 1999 Subject: Re: First Rod Terry,Till I moved out here I did not know what a Goggle Eye was. It was goodto meet you at Noark and hope to see you again next year. I will beputting that Sir "D" to use again tomorrow.Tony Terry L. Kirkpatrick wrote: I did C & R 17 nice Bluegill and Goggle eye bass.You're one of the few people I've ever heard talk of a Goggle eye. Glad the rod worked out for you. Hope to see you next year at NOARK. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from joseus@lacapitalnet.com.ar Mon Oct 4 09:43:03 1999 Subject: Question and splice nodeles. boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_01BF0E5D.3045EE60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01BF0E5D.3045EE60 1: Hola amigos. Con mi primer caa yo equivoque mis medidas. Ahora yo lascorregi. Consulto si estas estan bien? Yo encontre que haciendo lasjuntasde mis nodeles asi, para mi es muy facil. Yo quiero compartirlo con lalista. Adquiri esos clip en libreria, a 0,30 centavos de dolar cada uno. Enmi otra caa yo tuve problemas el adhesivo, fracasaron. Yo creo que lo hicemal. La caa se rompio en las juntas. Yo me disculpo por molestar tanto.Soyun principiante. Les saludo afectuosamente. Alberto.1: Hello friends. With my first cane I mistake my measures. Now Icorrectedthem. Do I consult if these they are well? I found that making this way themeetings of my nodeles, for my it is very easy. I want to share it with thelist. I acquired those clip in bookstore, to 0,30 cents of dollar each one.In my other cane I had problems the adhesive, they failed. I believe that Imade it bad. The cane broke in the meetings. I apologize to bother so much.I am a beginner. I greet them affectionately. Alberto. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01BF0E5D.3045EE60 name="CONSULTA.JPG" filename="CONSULTA.JPG"> from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Oct 410:02:07 1999 Mon, 4 Oct 1999 23:01:39 +0800 Subject: Re: Question and splice nodeles. Joseus,I wish I could speak Spanish but I think from the pics and text I'd sayyour scarfs are *way* too short.They appear to be only approx 1:3 at the most when you really need tomakethe slope much greater like 1:20 or 1:22 which is what I'm using.Also, make sure you use the same glue to make the scarfs as you glue thesplines or you may have problems with heat straightening. Tony At 11:39 AM 10/4/99 -0300, Alberto Jose Usman wrote:1: Hola amigos. Con mi primer caa yo equivoque mis medidas. Ahora yolascorregi. Consulto si estas estan bien? Yo encontre que haciendo lasjuntasde mis nodeles asi, para mi es muy facil. Yo quiero compartirlo con lalista. Adquiri esos clip en libreria, a 0,30 centavos de dolar cada uno. Enmi otra caa yo tuve problemas el adhesivo, fracasaron. Yo creo que lohicemal. La caa se rompio en las juntas. Yo me disculpo por molestar tanto.Soyun principiante. Les saludo afectuosamente. Alberto.1: Hello friends. With my first cane I mistake my measures. Now Icorrectedthem. Do I consult if these they are well? I found that making this waythemeetings of my nodeles, for my it is very easy. I want to share it withthelist. I acquired those clip in bookstore, to 0,30 cents of dollar each one.In my other cane I had problems the adhesive, they failed. I believe that Imade it bad. The cane broke in the meetings. I apologize to bother somuch.I am a beginner. I greet them affectionately. Alberto. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from caneman@clnk.com Mon Oct 4 11:17:04 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Mon, 4 Oct 1999 11:16:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Questions and splice nodeles boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0037_01BF0E59.FD8FC840" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01BF0E59.FD8FC840 Alberto,Looking at your pictures, I would say you need to use a more shallow =angle, giving you more surface area on your scarfs. The "glued" surface =on Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Question and splice nodeles. 1: Hola amigos. Con mi primer ca=F1a yo equivoque mis medidas. Ahora yo=lascorregi. =BFConsulto si estas estan bien? Yo encontre que haciendo las =juntasde mis nodeles asi, para mi es muy facil. Yo quiero compartirlo con lalista. Adquiri esos clip en libreria, a 0,30 centavos de dolar cada uno. =Enmi otra ca=F1a yo tuve problemas el adhesivo, fracasaron. Yo creo que lo =hicemal. La ca=F1a se rompio en las juntas. Yo me disculpo por molestar =tanto. Soyun principiante. Les saludo afectuosamente. Alberto.1: Hello friends. With my first cane I mistake my measures. Now I =correctedthem. Do I consult if these they are well? I found that making this way =themeetings of my nodeles, for my it is very easy. I want to share it with =thelist. I acquired those clip in bookstore, to 0,30 cents of dollar each =one.In my other cane I had problems the adhesive, they failed. I believe =that Imade it bad. The cane broke in the meetings. I apologize to bother so =much.I am a beginner. I greet them affectionately. Alberto. ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01BF0E59.FD8FC840 Message-----From: Alberto Jose Usman <joseus@lacapitalnet.com.ar= rodmakers <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= nodeles.1: Hola amigos. Con mi primer caña yo = medidas. Ahora yo lascorregi. ¿Consulto si estas estan bien? = encontre que haciendo las juntasde mis nodeles asi, para mi es muy = quiero compartirlo con lalista. Adquiri esos clip en libreria, a = centavos de dolar cada uno. Enmi otra caña yo tuve problemas = adhesivo, fracasaron. Yo creo que lo hicemal. La caña se = las juntas. Yo me disculpo por molestar tanto. Soyun principiante. = saludo afectuosamente. Alberto.1: Hello friends. With my first cane = mistake my measures. Now I correctedthem. Do I consult if these they= well? I found that making this way themeetings of my nodeles, for my= very easy. I want to share it with thelist. I acquired those clip in = bookstore, to 0,30 cents of dollar each one.In my other cane I had = the adhesive, they failed. I believe that Imade it bad. The cane = the meetings. I apologize to bother so much.I am a beginner. I greet = affectionately. Alberto. ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01BF0E59.FD8FC840-- from sats@gte.net Mon Oct 4 18:59:29 1999 ; id SAA2838706 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Goggle-eye We catch goggle-eye bass a lot (or cypress trout)here in Miss. and southern LA. Cane rods workquite well in warm water....-Jerry Ballard It's just that I haven't heard that name since dad and I went fishing.As I remember they were highly prized? For their fighting ability? Refresh my memory... Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from noblur@stic.net Mon Oct 4 19:14:52 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0- 60503U15500L11000S0V35)with ESMTP id net for ;Mon, 4 Oct 1999 19:14:49 -0500 Subject: Splicing & adhesives This is my first attempt at joining the group, and I'll start by asking about the adhesives used today. I've spent over 60 years building models, in all sorts of types. Over this time, we have gone from Resorcinol, types, to many and various epoxies.Now we have the super or CyA glues. In another area, I've seen some amazing performance from these. I once super glued a tire tread back on a boat trailer, in mid summer, and we drove 200 miles, and it never came off !Air temps were in the 110 deg. F., range too ! I noted with interest the splicing sketch today, and the advice to increase the ratio of the taper quite a bit, which makes perfect sense. What adhesive is used for this joint ? Is it then thread wrapped ? GMA from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Oct 4 19:40:17 1999 Subject: Re: Goggle-eye They look like a fat sunfish with big buggy eyes. Yes they do fight hard.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Terry L. Kirkpatrick wrote: We catch goggle-eye bass a lot (or cypress trout)here in Miss. and southern LA. Cane rods workquite well in warm water....-Jerry Ballard It's just that I haven't heard that name since dad and I went fishing.As I remember they were highly prized? For their fighting ability? Refresh my memory... Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Oct 4 19:46:28 1999 Tue, 5 Oct 1999 08:46:13 +0800 Subject: Re: Splicing & adhesives Some on the list and some I know off the list are using Titebond II andlike it. I like to use either resorcinol or Shell Epon epoxy. Basicaly Iuse both these glues for gluing the splines to make the blank so I usewhich ever glue used fro the splines for the scarfs.I used to use a few spring clamps to glue the scarfs but I now bind withthread. It's a whole lot messyer bit I like the results better.As I mentioned I use a 1:22 slope, it seems the best compromise of loss ofbamboo and strength. Tony At 07:18 PM 10/4/99 -0500, George M. Aldrich wrote:This is my first attempt at joining the group, and I'll start by asking about the adhesives used today. I've spent over 60 years building models, in all sorts of types. Over this time, we have gone from Resorcinol, types, to many and various epoxies.Now we have the super or CyA glues. In another area, I've seen some amazing performance from these. I once super glued a tire tread back on a boat trailer, in mid summer, and we drove 200 miles, and it never came off !Air temps were in the 110 deg. F., range too ! I noted with interest the splicing sketch today, and the advice toincrease the ratio of the taper quite a bit, which makes perfect sense. What adhesive is used for this joint ? Is it then thread wrapped ? GMA /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from freaner@gte.net Mon Oct 4 19:52:07 1999 Subject: Re: Splicing & adhesives At 7:18 PM -0500 on 10/4/99, George M. Aldrich wrote: This is my first attempt at joining the group, and I'll start by askingabout the adhesives used today. I've spent over 60 years building models, in all sorts of types. Over thistime, we have gone from Resorcinol, types, to many and various epoxies.Nowwe have the super or CyA glues. In another area, I've seen some amazingperformance from these. I once super glued a tire tread back on a boattrailer, in mid summer, and we drove 200 miles, and it never came off !Airtemps were in the 110 deg. F., range too ! I noted with interest the splicing sketch today, and the advice toincreasethe ratio of the taper quite a bit, which makes perfect sense. Whatadhesive is used for this joint ? Is it then thread wrapped ? George - there's three excellent articles by Chris Bogart and Hans Kohlwith some pictures on the Rodmakers website athttp://home1.gte.net/jfoster/ - click on the "Tips, Tools and FAQs" icon. Claude from caneman@clnk.com Mon Oct 4 21:38:40 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Mon, 4 Oct 1999 20:22:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Splicing & adhesives George,The glue I use is URAC. It isn't necessary to thread wrap a splice, as,since the surface areas should be matched precisely, the glue joint is justas strong as the bamboo.Just my 2 cents.Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Splicing & adhesives This is my first attempt at joining the group, and I'll start by askingabout the adhesives used today. I've spent over 60 years building models, in all sorts of types. Over thistime, we have gone from Resorcinol, types, to many and various epoxies.Nowwe have the super or CyA glues. In another area, I've seen some amazingperformance from these. I once super glued a tire tread back on a boattrailer, in mid summer, and we drove 200 miles, and it never came off !Airtemps were in the 110 deg. F., range too ! I noted with interest the splicing sketch today, and the advice toincreasethe ratio of the taper quite a bit, which makes perfect sense. Whatadhesive is used for this joint ? Is it then thread wrapped ? GMA from drinkr@voicenet.com Mon Oct 4 22:53:25 1999 0000 (207.103.118.187) A request .... If anyone is placing an order for Epon and catalyst I wouldbe interested in tacking on a quart or so. It seems that Miller Stephensondoesn't supply individuals . I've been interested in trying it out andcannot find a source other than Jon Livet but his phone is disconnected.Thanks in advance Dave Rinker from caneman@clnk.com Mon Oct 4 22:58:33 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Mon, 4 Oct 1999 22:57:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Same here... I have heard good things about Epon, but can't find any.Bob -----Original Message----- A request .... If anyone is placing an order for Epon and catalyst I wouldbe interested in tacking on a quart or so. It seems that Miller Stephensondoesn't supply individuals . I've been interested in trying it out andcannot find a source other than Jon Livet but his phone is disconnected.Thanks in advance Dave Rinker from Sean.Els@intl.bidlog.co.za Tue Oct 5 06:49:19 1999 (SAST) Subject: Other lists ? Just wondering if anyone knows of other rodmaking or flyfishing related lists like this one? Sean ElsWork : +2712 529 6790Fax : +2712 529 6888 from channer@hubwest.com Tue Oct 5 06:51:44 1999 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A6BD8801DE; Tue, 05 Oct 1999 05:53:33 MST Subject: Re: At 10:44 PM 10/04/1999 -0400, David K. Rinker wrote:A request .... If anyone is placing an order for Epon and catalyst I wouldbe interested in tacking on a quart or so. It seems that Miller Stephensondoesn't supply individuals . I've been interested in trying it out andcannot find a source other than Jon Livet but his phone is disconnected.Thanks in advance Dave Rinker There is an outfit in Ca. that will sell quarts of Epon, I will post theinfo when I get home from work today if no one else has by then. It ain'tcheap, year before last it was about $35.00 for a quart of each plus aHazmat shipping charge.John from HALLOWELLMA@atgl.spear.navy.mil Tue Oct 5 07:07:40 1999 (5.5.2232.9) Subject: Hello Wow, Great to be back. Hello to all the folks in IL and MI. Mark Hallowell P.S. Any rodmakers in Texas please give me a shout. Be nice to know I am not alone. from ecktor_66@yahoo.com Tue Oct 5 08:47:47 1999 1999 06:52:22 PDT Subject: Re: I ordered Epon through Miller Stephenson last year. The sales person had to have a company name, so wejust made one up on the spot. (And it was the salesperson's idea as a way to get around their policy.) If you want to try Epon, just call up MillerStephenson and be prepared with a company name. (Ithink their phone number is still available on theRodmakers site. ???) Now I'm starting to receive credit card applicationsaddressed to my company. Eck --- Bob Nunley wrote:Same here... I have heard good things about Epon,but can't find any.Bob -----Original Message-----From: David K. Rinker Date: Monday, October 04, 1999 10:56 PM A request .... If anyone is placing an order forEpon and catalyst I wouldbe interested in tacking on a quart or so. Itseems that Miller Stephensondoesn't supply individuals . I've been interestedin trying it out andcannot find a source other than Jon Livet but hisphone is disconnected.Thanks in advance Dave Rinker ===== __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from saltwein@swbell.net Tue Oct 5 08:48:08 1999 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with ESMTP id for Subject: Epon Epoxy Did you try to place an order with them? I acquired mine with a phoneorderand I think the criteria was that when asked my company name, I suppliedone. Igoofed the first time and was asked the question again. I then supplied itandwas good to go. Regards, Steve "David K. Rinker" wrote: A request .... If anyone is placing an order for Epon and catalyst I wouldbe interested in tacking on a quart or so. It seems that MillerStephensondoesn't supply individuals . I've been interested in trying it out andcannot find a source other than Jon Livet but his phone is disconnected.Thanks in advance Dave Rinker from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Oct 5 11:43:40 1999 Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:34:09 -0700 ,Bert and Shirley Hammons ,Bill Bruster , Bob Radasch,Bob Venneri ,Brad Creed ,BRANDI CORDILL ,Brian Thoman ,Bruce Prescott ,Buster Wolfe ,Cameron Collins ,Charles Curro ,Dan Cooney , Dan Downs ,Chris McDowell ,Darryl Hayashida , David,David Currie , David Keller ,Dennis Higham ,Dick Fuhrman , Don Laurenza ,Subject: New Email address boundary="------------38B54A7172B8B51A5AB629D5" --------------38B54A7172B8B51A5AB629D5 Friends, Romans, and Countrymen - My fellow Americans, and citizens ofthe world; Please update my email address in your records. The new address is:fbcwin@3g.quik.com The old address and the redirected will still bevalid for a little while, but new correspondence will best be receivedthrough the new address. Thanks, Harry Boyd --------------38B54A7172B8B51A5AB629D5 Friends, Romans, and Countrymen - My fellow Americans, and citizens ofthe world; is:fbcwin@3g.quik.comThe old address and the redirected <hboyd@fbcwin.com> will stillbe valid for a little while, but new correspondence will best be receivedthrough the new address.Thanks,Harry Boyd --------------38B54A7172B8B51A5AB629D5-- from edriddle@mindspring.com Tue Oct 5 13:50:49 1999 Subject: Varmor R-10 List:I would like to try this product. I called Pratt & Lambert's 800#, no onewithin 100 miles of me (Graham, N. C.) stocks it. Six 8 oz. cans min.stock order required of their dealers. Anybody know of a source that willship me an 8 oz. can? Tried "varmor" as keyword in archives index...notfound. TIA.Ed from anglport@con2.com Tue Oct 5 14:33:22 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A22B78A00B4; Tue, 05 Oct 1999 15:31:55 -0400 "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Other lists ? Try:http://www.flyshop.com/functions/boards/index.cfm?center=Rod%20Building&initialize=RodBuilding&gif=rbb Art It ain't all cane but it's all potentially useful! At 01:50 PM 10/05/1999 +0200, Sean Els wrote: Just wondering if anyone knows of other rodmaking or flyfishing related lists like this one? Sean ElsWork : +2712 529 6790Fax : +2712 529 6888 from anglport@con2.com Tue Oct 5 14:34:34 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A29B79500B4; Tue, 05 Oct 1999 15:33:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Hey,Lets not forget that a "quart" is two quarts of mix (64 Oz) and a rodtakes about an ounce of Epon!Art At 05:53 AM 10/05/1999 -0600, channer wrote:At 10:44 PM 10/04/1999 - 0400, David K. Rinker wrote:A request .... If anyone is placing an order for Epon and catalyst I wouldbe interested in tacking on a quart or so. It seems that MillerStephensondoesn't supply individuals . I've been interested in trying it out andcannot find a source other than Jon Livet but his phone is disconnected.Thanks in advance Dave Rinker There is an outfit in Ca. that will sell quarts of Epon, I will post theinfo when I get home from work today if no one else has by then. It ain'tcheap, year before last it was about $35.00 for a quart of each plus aHazmat shipping charge.John from mrmac@tcimet.net Tue Oct 5 15:51:58 1999 NAA23351; Subject: Re: Epon mixing ration When you indicated a yield of two quarts, that triggered a question I had awhileback and forgot to ask about the mixing ratio for Epon. My spec sheetsindicateda 2:1 mix ratio for 828 and 3140 (not necessarily in their properrespectiveorder; I forget which number is the resin and which is hardener), and mystuffwas supplied in that 2:1 ratio. I have since seen others also allude to themixing in a 1:1 ratio. Howcome? Does this offer better performance, or isitjust easier to match up volumes? Thanks - mac Art Port wrote: Hey,Lets not forget that a "quart" is two quarts of mix (64 Oz) and a rodtakes about an ounce of Epon!Art from weehughie@home.com Tue Oct 5 15:59:12 1999 (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP Subject: RE: Other lists ? Sean, There is a very new (not much traffic at this time) Rod Building list aimedat graphite (plastic ) rod builders.http://www.absolute- sway.com/rfa/rodbuild.html You may also want to check out the resources available regarding customrodbuilding at my flyfishing site at about.com:http://flyfishing.about.com/ In the Custom Rods category, you will find also find a link to the CustomRod Builders Guild, which has an active bulletin board. There are also newsgroups available as well, which you can find at theflyfishing site by clicking on the Newsgroups and Forums link under 'MoreLinks" There is also a bulletin board available at that site too. The Virtual Fly Box has a low traffic email list devoted to fly tying andfly swaps. The URL for this site is:http://www.virtualflybox.com It is a great site, and deserves somesupport! Hope this helps. I am sure there are lots more as well! Ian H. ScottProviding Goal Centered Internet SolutionsPairoWoodies Publishinghttp://www.absolute-sway.com/ Fly Fishing Links and Resourceshttp://flyfishing.about.com/ ********************************************"A single conversation across the table with a wise man is better than tenyears study of books"- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: October 5, 1999 7:50 AM Subject: Other lists ? Just wondering if anyone knows of other rodmaking or flyfishing relatedlists like this one? Sean ElsWork : +2712 529 6790Fax : +2712 529 6888 from noblur@stic.net Tue Oct 5 16:05:08 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0- 60503U15500L11000S0V35)with SMTP id net; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:03:51 - 0500 Subject: Re: Goggle-eye boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01BF0F0B.D20BAA60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BF0F0B.D20BAA60 Here in Texas, goggle eyes are great hitters of the smaller bass bugs ! =They have a much larger mouth, and seem to be sort of a cross between a =bream and a bass. If they grew as large as bass, you'd have a devil of a =fight ! GMA Sent: Monday, October 04, 1999 7:08 PMSubject: Goggle-eye We catch goggle-eye bass a lot (or cypress trout)here in Miss. and southern LA. Cane rods workquite well in warm water....-Jerry Ballard It's just that I haven't heard that name since dad and I went fishing.As I remember they were highly prized? For their fighting ability? Refresh my memory... Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BF0F0B.D20BAA60 Here in Texas, goggle eyes are great hitters of the smaller= bugs ! They have a much larger mouth, and seem to be sort of a cross = bream and a bass. If they grew as large as bass, you'd have a devil of a = ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- Terry L. = = Sent: Monday, October 04, 1999 = PMSubject: Goggle-eye haven't heard that name since dad and I went fishing.As I remember = memory...Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, = Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BF0F0B.D20BAA60-- from noblur@stic.net Tue Oct 5 16:05:10 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0- 60503U15500L11000S0V35)with SMTP id net; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:04:02 - 0500 Subject: Re: Splicing & adhesives boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF0F0D.70A4C020" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF0F0D.70A4C020 Has anyone tried this newer Borden Pro-Bond wood glue ? It's supposed to=be totally water proof, and expands as it dries, or sets up. This sounds =appealing, as a fill for any slight imperfection in a joint. In my business field, we must stay on the leading edge of adhesives for =woods, and fibers, both carbon, and glass. Now for the time to do some experiments ! GMA Sent: Monday, October 04, 1999 7:53 PMSubject: Re: Splicing & adhesives Some on the list and some I know off the list are using Titebond II =andlike it. I like to use either resorcinol or Shell Epon epoxy. Basicaly =Iuse both these glues for gluing the splines to make the blank so I usewhich ever glue used fro the splines for the scarfs.I used to use a few spring clamps to glue the scarfs but I now bind =withthread. It's a whole lot messyer bit I like the results better.As I mentioned I use a 1:22 slope, it seems the best compromise of =loss ofbamboo and strength. Tony At 07:18 PM 10/4/99 -0500, George M. Aldrich wrote:This is my first attempt at joining the group, and I'll start by = about the adhesives used today. I've spent over 60 years building models, in all sorts of types. Over = time, we have gone from Resorcinol, types, to many and various = we have the super or CyA glues. In another area, I've seen some = performance from these. I once super glued a tire tread back on a = trailer, in mid summer, and we drove 200 miles, and it never came off = temps were in the 110 deg. F., range too ! I noted with interest the splicing sketch today, and the advice to = adhesive is used for this joint ? Is it then thread wrapped ? GMA =/************************************************************************=*/ Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It =/************************************************************************=*/ ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF0F0D.70A4C020 Has anyone tried this newer Borden Pro-Bond wood glue ? = supposed to be totally water proof, and expands as it dries, or sets up. = joint. In my business field, we must stay on the leading edge of = Now for the time to do some experiments ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- Young Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Monday, October 04, 1999 = PM adhesivesSome on the list and some I know off the list are using = Titebond II andlike it. I like to use either resorcinol or Shell = epoxy. Basicaly Iuse both these glues for gluing the splines to = blank so I usewhich ever glue used fro the splines for the = withthread. It's a whole lot messyer bit I like the results = ofbamboo and strength.TonyAt 07:18 PM10/4/99 = =/********************************************************************= Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~a= this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, = running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in = =It/**************************************************************=***********/ ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF0F0D.70A4C020-- from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Oct 5 16:38:50 1999 sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: Other lists ? Funny, most complain that they get too many emails from the RM list.Here'sa group of forum boards for bamboo rodmakers, rod restorers, rodcollectorsand more... http://server2.ezboard.com:8080/banglerscollectibles It's pretty new so feel free to post your brains out... Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Other lists ? Sean, There is a very new (not much traffic at this time) Rod Building listaimedat graphite (plastic ) rod builders.http://www.absolute- sway.com/rfa/rodbuild.html You may also want to check out the resources available regarding customrodbuilding at my flyfishing site at about.com:http://flyfishing.about.com/ In the Custom Rods category, you will find also find a link to the CustomRod Builders Guild, which has an active bulletin board. There are also newsgroups available as well, which you can find at theflyfishing site by clicking on the Newsgroups and Forums link under 'MoreLinks" There is also a bulletin board available at that site too. The Virtual Fly Box has a low traffic email list devoted to fly tying andfly swaps. The URL for this site is:http://www.virtualflybox.com It is a great site, and deserves somesupport! Hope this helps. I am sure there are lots more as well! Ian H. ScottProviding Goal Centered Internet SolutionsPairoWoodies Publishinghttp://www.absolute-sway.com/ Fly Fishing Links and Resourceshttp://flyfishing.about.com/ ********************************************"A single conversation across the table with a wise man is better thantenyears study of books"- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: October 5, 1999 7:50 AM Subject: Other lists ? Just wondering if anyone knows of other rodmaking or flyfishingrelatedlists like this one? Sean ElsWork : +2712 529 6790Fax : +2712 529 6888 from noblur@stic.net Tue Oct 5 17:28:36 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0- 60503U15500L11000S0V35)with SMTP id net for ;Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:28:32 -0500 Subject: Epon boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01BF0F57.8FA3A0A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BF0F57.8FA3A0A0 Is there a specific part number for the Epon used in rod work ? I have a =number of contacts who buy Epon resins regularly. I'm quite sure, they =would add anything I wanted to their order. I'd have to put up my share =in advance, of course, but that should be no problem. Saying Epon, is sort of like saying fruit ! There are many types, some =able to withstand some pretty high temperatures. Let me know, and I'll check it out, and report. GMA ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BF0F57.8FA3A0A0 ? I have a number of contacts who buy Epon resins regularly. I'm quite = they would add anything I wanted to their order. I'd have to put up my = advance, of course, but that should be no problem. Saying Epon, is sort of like saying fruit ! There are many = some able to withstand some pretty high temperatures. Let me know, and I'll check it out, and =report. GMA ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BF0F57.8FA3A0A0-- from fquinchat@locl.net Tue Oct 5 17:39:08 1999 corsair.locl.net(8.9.0/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA02035 for ;Tue, 5 Oct 1999 Subject: Heddon #10 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0083_01BF0F59.2A1B4740" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0083_01BF0F59.2A1B4740 I have a Heddon rod with the following lable: #10 - 8 1/2 - 2 1/2 F - HCH or D I assume the line size is 6 ot 7 DT, but what does the 2 1/2 stand for? Dennis ------=_NextPart_000_0083_01BF0F59.2A1B4740 I have a Heddon rod with the = lable: D I assume the line size is 6 ot 7DT, = does the 2 1/2 stand for? Dennis ------=_NextPart_000_0083_01BF0F59.2A1B4740-- from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Oct 5 18:00:36 1999 sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: Heddon #10 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01CA_01BF0F4A.A3C73040" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01CA_01BF0F4A.A3C73040 Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com-----Original Message-----From: Dennis Bertram Date: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 3:41 PMSubject: Heddon #10 I have a Heddon rod with the following lable: #10 - 8 1/2 - 2 1/2 F - HCH or D I assume the line size is 6 ot 7 DT, but what does the 2 1/2 stand =for? Dennis ------=_NextPart_000_01CA_01BF0F4A.A3C73040 That's the= 1/2F is a bass weight or a 7wt Heddon. Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com -----Original = =rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= #10I have a Heddon rod with the = lable: D I assume the line size is 6 ot 7= what does the 2 1/2 stand for? Dennis ------=_NextPart_000_01CA_01BF0F4A.A3C73040-- from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Tue Oct 5 18:12:24 1999 Subject: RE: Splicing & adhesives If I'm not mistaken this is one of the new polyurethane glues, like anothercommon brand called Gorilla glue. This stuff seems very promising, theonlycharacteristic I'm not clear on is its flexibility. Anyone have info onthis? Barry Kling -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Splicing & adhesives Has anyone tried this newer Borden Pro-Bond wood glue ? It's supposed tobetotally water proof, and expands as it dries, or sets up. This soundsappealing, as a fill for any slight imperfection in a joint. In my business field, we must stay on the leading edge of adhesives forwoods, and fibers, both carbon, and glass. Now for the time to do some experiments ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Splicing & adhesives Some on the list and some I know off the list are using Titebond II andlike it. I like to use either resorcinol or Shell Epon epoxy. Basicaly Iuse both these glues for gluing the splines to make the blank so I usewhich ever glue used fro the splines for the scarfs.I used to use a few spring clamps to glue the scarfs but I now bind withthread. It's a whole lot messyer bit I like the results better.As I mentioned I use a 1:22 slope, it seems the best compromise of loss ofbamboo and strength. Tony At 07:18 PM 10/4/99 -0500, George M. Aldrich wrote:This is my first attempt at joining the group, and I'll start by asking about the adhesives used today. I've spent over 60 years building models, in all sorts of types. Over this time, we have gone from Resorcinol, types, to many and various epoxies.Now we have the super or CyA glues. In another area, I've seen some amazing performance from these. I once super glued a tire tread back on a boat trailer, in mid summer, and we drove 200 miles, and it never came off !Air temps were in the 110 deg. F., range too ! I noted with interest the splicing sketch today, and the advice toincrease the ratio of the taper quite a bit, which makes perfect sense. What adhesive is used for this joint ? Is it then thread wrapped ? GMA /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from caneman@clnk.com Tue Oct 5 18:28:05 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Tue, 5 Oct 1999 18:27:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Heddon #10 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01BF0F5F.59C118C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BF0F5F.59C118C0 The 2 1/2 is the ferrule size. Bob -----Original Message-----From: Dennis Bertram Date: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 5:40 PMSubject: Heddon #10 I have a Heddon rod with the following lable: #10 - 8 1/2 - 2 1/2 F - HCH or D I assume the line size is 6 ot 7 DT, but what does the 2 1/2 stand =for? Dennis ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BF0F5F.59C118C0 Dennis, the = size. Bob -----Original = =rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= #10I have a Heddon rod with the = lable: D I assume the line size is 6 ot 7= what does the 2 1/2 stand for? Dennis ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BF0F5F.59C118C0-- from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Oct 5 18:37:41 1999 16:38:33 PDT Subject: RE: Splicing & adhesives I use polyurethane glue (Elmers Pro-Bond) on reelseats because it has the gap filling qualities. My concern with using it on a rod is that it might actually create seams as it expands. I would estimate that it expands about twice it's quantity from what I've seen on other wood projects I've used it on. Maybe someone has glued up splines with it and can give some input about this? Elmers sends me $100 everytime I say their product name. Pro-Bond, Pro- Bond,Pro-Bond. There, I just made my boat payment. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from noblur@stic.net Tue Oct 5 19:11:29 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0- 60503U15500L11000S0V35)with SMTP id net; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:11:26 - 0500 Subject: Re: Splicing & adhesives boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0025_01BF0F65.EE5C4080" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BF0F65.EE5C4080 Interesting point, about the expansion. I was thinking that the pressure = from the string wrap, would force any excess out, leaving only the =spaces filled. I'm going to have to try some tests, and see if it flexes or not. GMA Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 6:25 PMSubject: RE: Splicing & adhesives I use polyurethane glue (Elmers Pro-Bond) on reelseats because it has = gap filling qualities. My concern with using it on a rod is that it = actually create seams as it expands. I would estimate that it expands = about twice it's quantity from what I've seen on other wood projects = used it on. Maybe someone has glued up splines with it and can give = Elmers sends me $100 everytime I say their product name. Pro-Bond, =Pro- Bond,Pro-Bond. There, I just made my boat payment. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BF0F65.EE5C4080 Interesting point, about the expansion. I was thinking that = pressure from the string wrap, would force any excess out, leaving only = spaces filled. I'm going to have to try some tests, and see if it flexes = not. GMA ----- Original Message ----- MCDOWELL = Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999= PM adhesives because it has the gap filling qualities. My concern with using it = estimate that it expands about twice it's quantity from what I've = other wood projects I've used it on. Maybe someone has glued up = Pro-Bond,Pro-Bond. There, I just made my boat = McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BF0F65.EE5C4080-- from saltwein@swbell.net Tue Oct 5 19:31:00 1999 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with ESMTP id for Subject: Cortland Ferrules Has anyone had any experience lapping these ferrules? I did one for a friend today, showing them how to as it where. It endedup being the first ferrule that I have overlapped. It happened quickly it, when the bottom of the ferrule first went in three quarters of itwent at the same time. I still have an 1/8" to lap but stopped for today as I didn't have a micwith me and wanted to see where the ferrule was before I continued. Withthe ferrule jammed in now and a decided pop when it is pulled out thereis a click with the waving of the rod. Left me perplexed. Before this Ihave only had experience lapping CSE ferrules and had to go at them tofit them well. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from wbinn@michiana.org Tue Oct 5 19:38:36 1999 Subject: Re: Heddon #10 Heddon labeled the size of the butt section female ferrule using their ownsize designation. A 2 1/2 F is a 19/64ths ferrule which was used on rodsdesignated Bass-Heavy Trout, according to Sinclairs book on Heddon.Havingcast a number of Heddons with that ferrule size I agree that a 6 or 7 linematches the rod.Winston Binney from briancreek@crosswinds.net Tue Oct 5 19:47:56 1999 (envelope- from briancreek@crosswinds.net) Subject: Re: Goggle-eye Where I grew up in Indiana (Fairmount) they called them "War-MouthBass." I have no idea why. My Dad told a story (unsubstantiated and hewas, after all, a fisherman) about catching a 14 incher on a blackjitterbug from a farm pond at night shortly after he got home from WWII. He was already planning on waking up half the county to show offthis huge "bass" before he had it in hand. When he saw what it was hejust woke up some of my uncles. Still a darned nice fish. Brian from noblur@stic.net Tue Oct 5 19:49:18 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0- 60503U15500L11000S0V35)with SMTP id net; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:49:14 - 0500 Subject: Re: Cortland Ferrules boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01BF0F6B.37E2F000" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BF0F6B.37E2F000 How are you lapping ? If you are lapping the male into the female, this =can cause a taper to form in both. That is the male will get smaller on =the far end, and the female will get, what is called "bellmouth". To get a straight lapped surface, you must get, or make a lap, that is =shorter than the piece you are lapping. If the lap is longer, then is =will tend to round off the end of the male part. I don't want to sound "know it all", but my main business is fitting =fine pistons and cylinders. I can show a photo of a precision lap, if =anyone is interested. GMA Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 9:32 PMSubject: Cortland Ferrules Has anyone had any experience lapping these ferrules? I did one for a friend today, showing them how to as it where. It =endedup being the first ferrule that I have overlapped. It happened quickly withit, when the bottom of the ferrule first went in three quarters of itwent at the same time. I still have an 1/8" to lap but stopped for today as I didn't have a =micwith me and wanted to see where the ferrule was before I continued. =Withthe ferrule jammed in now and a decided pop when it is pulled out =thereis a click with the waving of the rod. Left me perplexed. Before this =Ihave only had experience lapping CSE ferrules and had to go at them tofit them well. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BF0F6B.37E2F000 How are you lapping ? If you are lapping the male into the = this can cause a taper to form in both. That is the male will get = far end, and the female will get, what is called ="bellmouth". To get a straight lapped surface, you must get, or make a = is shorter than the piece you are lapping. If the lap is longer, then is = tend to round off the end of the male part. I don't want to sound "know it all", but my main business = fitting fine pistons and cylinders. I can show a photo of a precision = anyone is interested. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Trauthwein Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999= PMSubject: Cortland =FerrulesHas anyone had any experience lapping these = did one for a friend today, showing them how to as it where. It = being the first ferrule that I have overlapped. It happened = Lapping a quarter inch at a time and moving up the ferrule withit, = the bottom of the ferrule first went in three quarters of itwent = same time.I still have an 1/8" to lap but stopped for today as = didn't have a micwith me and wanted to see where the ferrule was = continued. Withthe ferrule jammed in now and a decided pop when it= pulled out thereis a click with the waving of the rod. Left me = Before this Ihave only had experience lapping CSE ferrules and had = at them tofit them well.Regards, MO ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BF0F6B.37E2F000-- from channer@hubwest.com Tue Oct 5 21:01:05 1999 (SMTPD32-4.06) id ADD11C20200; Tue, 05 Oct 1999 20:02:57 MST Subject: Epon guys;Epon resin 828 and curing agent3140 can be ordered from E.V. Roberts Co.8500 Steller Dr. Culver City Ca. 90232 !-800-374- 3872. The usual blahblahblah, yaddy yaddy yadda.John from channer@hubwest.com Tue Oct 5 21:01:11 1999 (SMTPD32-4.06) id ADD81C30200; Tue, 05 Oct 1999 20:03:04 MST Subject: Re: Other lists ? At 03:34 PM 10/05/1999 -0400, Art Port wrote:Try:http://www.flyshop.com/functions/boards/index.cfm?center=Rod%20Building&initialize=RodBuilding&gif=rbb Art It ain't all cane but it's all potentially useful! What about the dread R.O.F.F., talk about some great comedyJohn from CAIrvinerods@aol.com Tue Oct 5 21:01:34 1999 Subject: Bishop Gathering To All Interested, Tried sending a message to each individual about the Motels and rates Directions and a loose itinerary but guess no one received it so I will try here. Will Send Motel stuff to anyone who would like the info separately.The gathering will start off in my shop. I live at 419 Arboles Drive. We are located seven miles north on 395 from the Vons Mall north of town, this is the last stop light. Proceed north on 395 to Mill Creek Road turn right if you are heading north (opposite for south bound) Mill Creek Road runs parallel to 395. Turn right onto Vista View (the only road off of Mill Creek). Follow Vista View to the end and turn left onto Arboles, follow Arboles to 419, shop is behind the house. Phone number (760) 387 0033. Ihave room for 4 or 5 motor homes or trailers. lots of room for casting. You are welcome to show up Fri night but 30 and 31 Oct will be our dates. Plan ona Chili cookout, barbecue get together Sat night. The Upper Owens may be agood bet for all to get together to cast lots of rods and catch a few of the big spawners heading up the river. I am still looking for builders willing to give a little presentation. Their is no fee for attending but a donation would be appreciated for the dinner and any Chili Chefs will be welcome. I hope we can all pitch in and help with dinner. Please let me know if youare interested and if you have any questions, comments, ideas please stepright in. Tight Lines, Chuck from ROBERT.KOPE@prodigy.net Tue Oct 5 21:04:25 1999 Tue, 5 Oct 1999 22:04:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Splicing & adhesives There's been quite a bit of discussion of polyurethane glues. They have agood working time and are totally waterproof and very heat resistant. Onthe down side they require moisture to cure and tend to foam as they cure.The are quite flexible, in fact I have worried that they are too flexible;much more so than epoxies, Urac, Resorcinol, or most other glues. Somehavetried urethane glues for splicing with unsatisfactory results, but I believethat Sir D. is presently using it to glue up rods. Try searching the archives for more info. -- Robert-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Splicing & adhesives If I'm not mistaken this is one of the new polyurethane glues, likeanothercommon brand called Gorilla glue. This stuff seems very promising, theonlycharacteristic I'm not clear on is its flexibility. Anyone have info onthis? Barry Kling -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 8:42 AM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Splicing & adhesives Has anyone tried this newer Borden Pro-Bond wood glue ? It's supposed tobetotally water proof, and expands as it dries, or sets up. This soundsappealing, as a fill for any slight imperfection in a joint. In my business field, we must stay on the leading edge of adhesives forwoods, and fibers, both carbon, and glass. Now for the time to do some experiments ! GMA ----- Original Message -----From: Tony Young Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, October 04, 1999 7:53 PMSubject: Re: Splicing & adhesives Some on the list and some I know off the list are using Titebond II andlike it. I like to use either resorcinol or Shell Epon epoxy. Basicaly Iuse both these glues for gluing the splines to make the blank so I usewhich ever glue used fro the splines for the scarfs.I used to use a few spring clamps to glue the scarfs but I now bind withthread. It's a whole lot messyer bit I like the results better.As I mentioned I use a 1:22 slope, it seems the best compromise of lossofbamboo and strength. Tony At 07:18 PM 10/4/99 -0500, George M. Aldrich wrote:This is my first attempt at joining the group, and I'll start by askingabout the adhesives used today. I've spent over 60 years building models, in all sorts of types. Over thistime, we have gone from Resorcinol, types, to many and various epoxies.Now we have the super or CyA glues. In another area, I've seen some amazingperformance from these. I once super glued a tire tread back on a boattrailer, in mid summer, and we drove 200 miles, and it never came off !Air temps were in the 110 deg. F., range too ! I noted with interest the splicing sketch today, and the advice toincrease the ratio of the taper quite a bit, which makes perfect sense. Whatadhesive is used for this joint ? Is it then thread wrapped ? GMA /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from channer@hubwest.com Tue Oct 5 21:04:55 1999 (SMTPD32-4.06) id AEADD6022C; Tue, 05 Oct 1999 20:06:37 MST Subject: Re: Cortland Ferrules At 07:32 PM 10/05/1999 -0700, Steve Trauthwein wrote:Has anyone had any experience lapping these ferrules? I did one for a friend today, showing them how to as it where. It endedup being the first ferrule that I have overlapped. It happened quickly it, when the bottom of the ferrule first went in three quarters of itwent at the same time. I still have an 1/8" to lap but stopped for today as I didn't have a micwith me and wanted to see where the ferrule was before I continued.Withthe ferrule jammed in now and a decided pop when it is pulled out thereis a click with the waving of the rod. Left me perplexed. Before this Ihave only had experience lapping CSE ferrules and had to go at them tofit them well. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Junk, worth far less than the few bucks short of Super Swiss orUniferrulesthat you have to pay for them. I would rather use old Montague ferrules.Geeze I'm cranky tonite.John from noblur@stic.net Tue Oct 5 21:27:05 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0- 60503U15500L11000S0V35)with SMTP id net for ;Tue, 5 Oct 1999 21:26:41 -0500 Subject: Laps boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01BF0F78.D4DCDE40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BF0F78.D4DCDE40 boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0012_01BF0F78.D4DCDE40" ------=_NextPart_001_0012_01BF0F78.D4DCDE40 I will send some photos of both a male , and female type lap. They will =come one at a time, to shorten the down load time. The male lap is only about 5/8" wide, to avoid "rounding" of the =straight surface. The holder is made of steel, and the holes around the =large diameter, allow the expansion, or contraction for various sizes. =The inserts are of high density cast iron, and the slots are visible for =charging the lap with abrasive compound. Unless there is a great deal of =material to be removed, a very fine compound should be used. I would =start with something on the order of 2000 grit. You can always go =heavier, but it's hard to put back ! The female lap is just one type, and the key thing is the slits are set =up for doing a "blind bore", which our ferrule is. The idea is that it =laps down in the hole first, because it is inversely tapered, or large =at the front end, that at the rear. Laps that expand it the middle =should be avoided. I'll leave it at that, and start sending. GMA ------=_NextPart_001_0012_01BF0F78.D4DCDE40 I will send some photos of both a male , and female type = will come one at a time, to shorten the down load time. The male lap is only about 5/8" wide, to avoid "rounding" = straight surface. The holder is made of steel, and the holes around the = diameter, allow the expansion, or contraction for various sizes. The = of high density cast iron, and the slots are visible for charging the = abrasive compound. Unless there is a great deal of material to be = very fine compound should be used. I would start with something on the = 2000 grit. You can always go heavier, but it's hard to put back =! The female lap is just one type, and the key thing is the = set up for doing a "blind bore", which our ferrule is. The idea is that = down in the hole first, because it is inversely tapered, or large at the = avoided. I'll leave it at that, and start sending. GMA ------=_NextPart_001_0012_01BF0F78.D4DCDE40-- ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BF0F78.D4DCDE40 name="Image01.jpg" filename="Image01.jpg" by wugate.wustl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) withESMTP id VAA26797 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0- 60503U15500L11000S0V35)with SMTP id net for ;Tue, 5 Oct 1999 21:28:30 -0500 Subject: Lapping boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001B_01BF0F79.142CC100" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01BF0F79.142CC100 boundary="----=_NextPart_001_001C_01BF0F79.142CC100" ------=_NextPart_001_001C_01BF0F79.142CC100 Photo #2 GMA ------=_NextPart_001_001C_01BF0F79.142CC100 Photo #2 GMA ------=_NextPart_001_001C_01BF0F79.142CC100-- ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01BF0F79.142CC100 name="Image03.jpg" filename="Image03.jpg" 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 ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01BF0F79.142CC100-- from noblur@stic.net Tue Oct 5 21:30:38 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0- 60503U15500L11000S0V35)with SMTP id net for ;Tue, 5 Oct 1999 21:30:04 -0500 Subject: Female lap boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0025_01BF0F79.4E37C340" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BF0F79.4E37C340 boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0026_01BF0F79.4E37C340" ------=_NextPart_001_0026_01BF0F79.4E37C340 Lap for lapping female ferrules GMA ------=_NextPart_001_0026_01BF0F79.4E37C340 CAdams46@compuserve.com Tue Oct 5 22:11:47 1999 Subject: Adhesives I've been gluing up all my poles with a polyurethane glue since Istarted and have had great results. I use the Gorilla Glue that woodcraftsupply sells. I think its great, it seems to be flexable, it dries clear,100% waterproof, heatproof, and about anything else proof. Its onlyproblem that I have found is once you glue up a section you can never usethat pair of trousers or shirt again and if you don't wear rubber glovesyour wearing it for a month and even if I do wear rubber gloves I still getit on my arms and everywhere else. But its pretty easy on the wallet. One18oz. bottle is about $20 and can do some where around 5 rods or 15sections. My thoughts on the subject.C.R. Adams from Nodewrrior@aol.com Tue Oct 5 22:31:12 1999 Subject: Re: Varmor R-10 I get mine right down the street at:Prather Paint & Wallpaper(847)251- 6905Wilmette IL (No of CHicago)I don't know if they can ship or not Rob Hoffhines from drinkr@voicenet.com Wed Oct 6 00:02:25 1999 0000 (207.103.93.247) Subject: Epon Advisors Thanks for the advice on obtaining Epon . I am now a rod company and Ihave to admit it feels good. I talked to MS today and they had no problemwith Rinker Rods. Now the challenge is to use it up before it sours. from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Wed Oct 6 00:15:07 1999 (5.5.2448.0) Subject: Silk fly lines Hi everyone,I know you'll think I've been sniffing too much glue when youread this, but, here goes anyway......(I'll probably regret this). Doesanyone know where I can find out how to make my own silk lines? Ipromisenot to let on where I got the information when the men in the white coatscome to take me away. TIA. Mike from weehughie@home.com Wed Oct 6 01:25:19 1999 (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:23:35 -0700 Subject: RE: Other lists ? I have been in and out of ROFF for sheesh..must be going on 5 years now.There are some really helpful people in there, and some very funnycomedians. What I don't like about it is the growing use of spam in thenewsgroups. Its good to learn to use newsgroups though! Ian H. ScottProviding Goal Centered Internet SolutionsPairoWoodies Publishinghttp://www.absolute-sway.com/ Fly Fishing Links and Resourceshttp://flyfishing.about.com/ ********************************************"A single conversation across the table with a wise man is better than tenyears study of books"- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: October 5, 1999 10:03 PM Subject: Re: Other lists ? At 03:34 PM 10/05/1999 -0400, Art Port wrote:Try:http://www.flyshop.com/functions/boards/index.cfm?center=Rod%20Building&initialize=RodBuilding&gif=rbb Art It ain't all cane but it's all potentially useful! What about the dread R.O.F.F., talk about some great comedyJohn from seanmcs@ar.com.au Wed Oct 6 01:53:23 1999 Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:50:40 +1000 Subject: Re: Silk fly lines Mike: The first place you might look is in FM Halford's Dry Fly Fishingof 1889 and later editions. Also his book The Dry Fly Mans Handbook 1913which enlarges on line making. These both explain the means to treat thebraided silk line with linseed oil, but are silent on how you procurethe right silk, and how to braid it! If you want to go back to basicslook in Parker Holden's The Idyl of the Split Bamboo where you can learnhow to raise your own silkworms. More seriously, some years ago I spent the day with my friend NoelBuxton who founded Phoenix Lines (now sold to France). The visit iswritten up in the Jounrnal of the NSW Rod Fishers Society. Through trialand error he found the right type of silk and operative diameters, and asmall suitable braiding machine from the textile supply industry.Helearned how to taper the line and also how to apply the linseed oil verymuch as Halford described. The drying is an issue, as is the finalvarnishing and sanding, and it was these phases that Noel consideredpropritary. He did not want that stage photographed. Noel was alsowritten up inCountry Life, 8 May 1997. So, all is available, but how tomix the cocktail and land each line within the AFTMA weights. Goodluck. Sean "Roberts, Michael" wrote: Hi everyone,I know you'll think I've been sniffing too much glue when youread this, but, here goes anyway......(I'll probably regret this). Doesanyone know where I can find out how to make my own silk lines? Ipromisenot to let on where I got the information when the men in the whitecoatscome to take me away. TIA. Mike from chris@artistree.com Wed Oct 6 01:58:19 1999 Subject: Re: Silk fly lines Mike,Here is a good article you might want to read:American Fly Fisher, vol.17, no.3, Fall 1991, "Silk Line Manufacturing" A photocopy is available from: American Museum of Fly Fishing, P.O. Box 42, Manchester, VT 05254, ph.(802) 362-3300 It won't give you detailed instructions but does make for someinteresting reading. Regards,Chris "Roberts, Michael" wrote: Hi everyone,I know you'll think I've been sniffing too much glue when youread this, but, here goes anyway......(I'll probably regret this). Doesanyone know where I can find out how to make my own silk lines? Ipromisenot to let on where I got the information when the men in the whitecoatscome to take me away. TIA. Mike from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Oct 6 03:26:34 1999 Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:26:20 +0800 Subject: Re: Silk fly lines Where do you think Mike got this idea from? Ever since reading that bookMikes' always got a shifting glancing look about him as he looks over yourshoulder then onto the ground then up in trees looking for likelycandidates for strange and un-natural uses for catterpillers. Personaly Ithink he's wating his time with them, Mike should be collecting andbreeding Red Back spiders. Sure, they're a little more hazardous to handlebut there are plenty of them. You can make a weekly red back sweep of myplace if you like. ;-) Tony the right silk, and how to braid it! If you want to go back to basicslook in Parker Holden's The Idyl of the Split Bamboo where you can learnhow to raise your own silkworms. "Roberts, Michael" wrote: Hi everyone,I know you'll think I've been sniffing too much glue when youread this, but, here goes anyway......(I'll probably regret this). Doesanyone know where I can find out how to make my own silk lines? Ipromisenot to let on where I got the information when the men in the whitecoatscome to take me away. TIA. Mike /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from stuart.tod@virgin.net Wed Oct 6 05:04:11 1999 (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:04:40 +0100 Subject: Re: Splicing & adhesives boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0024_01BF0FE9.CA2B5FA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BF0FE9.CA2B5FA0 Sounds very much like the 'Gorilla glue' that I've taken to using - an =urathane (sp?) adhesive that foams gently whilst curing. Very, very =stiff sections as a result, I'm really pleased that I found it. Have to =wear rubber gloves to use it, stains the skin black/purple, looks like =plague spots! Sands off the section easily but sticks the bamboo splines together like =nothing else. 24 hr set time, I love it! Stuart Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 2:41 PMSubject: Re: Splicing & adhesives Has anyone tried this newer Borden Pro-Bond wood glue ? It's supposed =to be totally water proof, and expands as it dries, or sets up. This =sounds appealing, as a fill for any slight imperfection in a joint. In my business field, we must stay on the leading edge of adhesives = Now for the time to do some experiments ! GMA Sent: Monday, October 04, 1999 7:53 PMSubject: Re: Splicing & adhesives Some on the list and some I know off the list are using Titebond II =andlike it. I like to use either resorcinol or Shell Epon epoxy. =Basicaly Iuse both these glues for gluing the splines to make the blank so I =usewhich ever glue used fro the splines for the scarfs.I used to use a few spring clamps to glue the scarfs but I now bind =withthread. It's a whole lot messyer bit I like the results better.As I mentioned I use a 1:22 slope, it seems the best compromise of =loss ofbamboo and strength. Tony At 07:18 PM 10/4/99 -0500, George M. Aldrich wrote:This is my first attempt at joining the group, and I'll start by = about the adhesives used today. I've spent over 60 years building models, in all sorts of types. = time, we have gone from Resorcinol, types, to many and various = we have the super or CyA glues. In another area, I've seen some = performance from these. I once super glued a tire tread back on a = trailer, in mid summer, and we drove 200 miles, and it never came = temps were in the 110 deg. F., range too ! I noted with interest the splicing sketch today, and the advice to = the ratio of the taper quite a bit, which makes perfect sense. What = adhesive is used for this joint ? Is it then thread wrapped ? GMA =/************************************************************************=*/ Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It =/************************************************************************=*/ ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BF0FE9.CA2B5FA0 Sounds very much like the 'Gorilla = taken to using - an urathane (sp?) adhesive that foams gently whilst = Very, very stiff sections as a result, I'm really pleased that I found = to wear rubber gloves to use it, stains the skin black/purple, looks = spots! Sands off the section easily but sticks= splines together like nothing else. 24 hr set time, I love =it! Stuart ----- Original Message ----- george M. = Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999= PM adhesives Has anyone tried this newer Borden Pro-Bond wood glue ?= supposed to be totally water proof, and expands as it dries, or sets = joint. In my business field, we must stay on the leading edge of= adhesives for woods, and fibers, both carbon, and =glass. Now for the time to do some experiments! GMA ----- Original Message ----- Young Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Monday, October 04, = PM adhesivesSome on the list and some I know off the list are = Titebond II andlike it. I like to use either resorcinol or Shell = epoxy. Basicaly Iuse both these glues for gluing the splines to = blank so I usewhich ever glue used fro the splines for the = better.As I mentioned I use a 1:22 slope, it seems the best = of loss ofbamboo and strength.TonyAt 07:18= = this joint ? Is it then thread wrapped =/********************************************************************= Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~a= this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, = running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in = =It/**************************************************************=***********/ ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BF0FE9.CA2B5FA0-- from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Wed Oct 6 07:38:37 1999 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id HAA31783 for (8.8.4/8.6.8) withSMTP id HAA26066 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 Subject: Re: Splicing & adhesives I've used the Gorilla brand polyurethane glue for splices on 5 or 6nodelss rods. I wet one side of the splice with my little fingerdipped in water. I've not had any splices fail while planing or inthe finished rod. I've not tried it to glue the strips together, butI will on my next rod. One advantage is that it is very heat resistant, so any final straightening can be done without worring about delamination. I guess what we don't know is whether it will hold up for 25 to 50 years.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Tue, 5 Oct 1999, george M. Aldrich wrote: Has anyone tried this newer Borden Pro-Bond wood glue ? It's supposedto be totallywater proof, and expands as it dries, or sets up. This sounds appealing, asa fill forany slight imperfection in a joint. In my business field, we must stay on the leading edge of adhesives forwoods, andfibers, both carbon, and glass. Now for the time to do some experiments ! GMA from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Wed Oct 6 08:14:12 1999 Subject: Glue Hi Guys,I am ready to glue my first rod together and I'm wondering if there is a first time user friendly adhesive that I can get at a local woodworking place. Also I don't have a scale so may be one that will not require a perfect weight ratio mix.Any help would be great, I am very anxious to finish this rod.thanksJoseph A Perrigo II from saweiss@flash.net Wed Oct 6 08:44:16 1999 Subject: Re: Epon Advisors I keep my bottles of Epon in the refrigerator and let the resins come toroom temp before using.The stuff probably will last for years if you store it in the refrig.Steve Weiss Thanks for the advice on obtaining Epon . I am now a rod company and Ihave to admit it feels good. I talked to MS today and they had no problemwith Rinker Rods. Now the challenge is to use it up before it sours. from noblur@stic.net Wed Oct 6 09:16:55 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0- 60503U15500L11000S0V35)with SMTP id net for ;Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:16:52 -0500 Subject: Laps boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00F9_01BF0FDC.0AEBA3A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00F9_01BF0FDC.0AEBA3A0 I will post the sources for laps tonight. All this info is at my shop, =and I'll dig it out. GMA ------=_NextPart_000_00F9_01BF0FDC.0AEBA3A0 I will post the sources for laps tonight. All this info is = shop, and I'll dig it out. GMA ------=_NextPart_000_00F9_01BF0FDC.0AEBA3A0-- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Oct 6 09:29:26 1999 Wed, 6 Oct 1999 07:29:17 -0700 Subject: Re: Cortland Ferrules Steve,I've used a few Cortlands, and definitely prefer Bailey Wood's stuff.My problem with Cortland stuff has been two-fold. First, the welt's andmoisture seals are either epoxied on, or slodered with a very low tempsolder. If I heat the ferrule at all to make it easier to seat, the weltsand moisture plugs on the female come off VERY easily.Second, and contradicting what you said, I find the male's have to belapped forever to get them started. Seems to me that the males are about.003-.005 oversize. Too much for my tastes. Guess I'll stick with BaileyWoods in the future. HarryBTW, Got the second email, so guess the address works. Steve Trauthwein wrote: Has anyone had any experience lapping these ferrules? I did one for a friend today, showing them how to as it where. It endedup being the first ferrule that I have overlapped. It happened quickly it, when the bottom of the ferrule first went in three quarters of itwent at the same time. I still have an 1/8" to lap but stopped for today as I didn't have a micwith me and wanted to see where the ferrule was before I continued.Withthe ferrule jammed in now and a decided pop when it is pulled out thereis a click with the waving of the rod. Left me perplexed. Before this Ihave only had experience lapping CSE ferrules and had to go at them tofit them well. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Oct 6 10:39:13 1999 Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:36:11 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: bastard bamboo Perhaps I aughtn't say this. Yes I will.GG should make arrow shafts, now if his rods are bastards, what would hisshafts be? Tony On Fri, 1 Oct 1999, Claude Freaner wrote: At 8:15 PM -0500 on 10/1/99, R.A.Fick wrote: Hello All On 9-12-99 I made a product review post on George Gehrke's HappyHookerflyrod, Did by chance anyone happen to save that post ?... if not how canIget it ? ( yes I should have saved it myself ) I just forwarded the messages back to Rick. Claude /***********************************************************************/ Q. How many Microsoft personel does it take to change a light bulb? A. None. They change the new standard to "Darkness" Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Oct 6 10:42:44 1999 Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:40:24 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au) Subject: Re: Goggle-eye On Mon, 4 Oct 1999, Tony Spezio wrote: They look like a fat sunfish with big buggy eyes. Yes they do fight hard.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Hey, that's me after I've had a few at a good game of Rugby, especiallywhen it's an All Black vs Wallaby match. Tony from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Oct 6 11:07:30 1999 Subject: Re: Glue RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 10/6/99 1:15:03 PM, Eastkoyfly@aol.com wrote: Joe - You may get other opinions, but my .02 is that you should try resourcinol. It can be mixed by volume, and if you keep temperature above70* as directed, it is very reliable. Also, if you have made any beginners mistakes in planing, like chips at nodes, split edges, etc, the dark glue line will show them to you. You will then know what to watch for nexttime. If I remember rightly, the mix ratio by volume is 4 parts liquid to 3 parts powder. I shake the powder can to fluff it up, and I usually thin themixture with about 1/2 of a part of alcohol. That is, if I am measuring the parts with a tablespoon, I add 1/2 tablespoon alcohol, or slightly less. Not too scientific, but it seems to work. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Oct 6 11:39:38 1999 Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:39:23 +0800 Subject: Re: Glue Try Urac or Resorcinol Tony At 09:13 AM 10/6/99 -0400, Eastkoyfly@aol.com wrote:Hi Guys,I am ready to glue my first rod together and I'm wondering if there is a first time user friendly adhesive that I can get at a local woodworking place. Also I don't have a scale so may be one that will not require a perfect weight ratio mix.Any help would be great, I am very anxious to finish this rod.thanksJoseph A Perrigo II /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from gholland@navsys.com Wed Oct 6 11:50:07 1999 owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu, RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Glue Now that sounds like some sound advice...I haven't glued a rod yet either,but it seems to me that I should be more worried about learning somethingsthan about the color of glue lines, at least at this stage of the game. Ithink I'll try this since I'm pretty sure my first rod or three won't becosmetically perfect(or otherwise) anyway. Thanks for the tip. Greg Holland -----Original Message----- RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Glue In a message dated 10/6/99 1:15:03 PM, Eastkoyfly@aol.com wrote: Joe - You may get other opinions, but my .02 is that you should try resourcinol. It can be mixed by volume, and if you keep temperature above70* as directed, it is very reliable. Also, if you have made any beginners mistakes in planing, like chips at nodes, split edges, etc, the dark glue line will show them to you. You will then know what to watch for nexttime. If I remember rightly, the mix ratio by volume is 4 parts liquid to 3 parts powder. I shake the powder can to fluff it up, and I usually thin themixture with about 1/2 of a part of alcohol. That is, if I am measuring the parts with a tablespoon, I add 1/2 tablespoon alcohol, or slightly less. Not too scientific, but it seems to work. from rcurry@ttlc.net Wed Oct 6 11:55:33 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id AFC98901FE; Wed, 06 Oct 1999 12:58:49 -0400 "'RODMAKERS'" Subject: Re: Silk fly lines Chris,I'd like your response to my article on silk lines at the following:http://www.flyanglersonline.com/The title got screwed up, but do you think Scientific Anglers will hiremeas a spokesperson?Best regards,Reed Chris Wohlford wrote: Mike,Here is a good article you might want to read:American Fly Fisher, vol.17, no.3, Fall 1991, "Silk Line Manufacturing" A photocopy is available from:American Museum of Fly Fishing, P.O. Box 42, Manchester, VT 05254, ph.(802) 362-3300 It won't give you detailed instructions but does make for someinteresting reading. Regards,Chris "Roberts, Michael" wrote: Hi everyone,I know you'll think I've been sniffing too much glue when youread this, but, here goes anyway......(I'll probably regret this). Doesanyone know where I can find out how to make my own silk lines? Ipromisenot to let on where I got the information when the men in the whitecoatscome to take me away. TIA. Mike from saweiss@flash.net Wed Oct 6 12:02:40 1999 Subject: Re: Glue Joe,If you use resorcinal be aware of these points:1. working time is short. You may want to keep your mixing container in anicewater bath as Garrison did.2. Be sure and filter the powder through nylon stocking material to get ridof the coarse particles, again as Garrison recommends. If you don't ( Ifound out the hard way), you will get more open glue lines than the qualityof your planing deserves.3. Be very scrupulous about straightening as soon as you have glued andwrapped a section. Epoxy gives you way more time to straighten before thefinal set of the glue( I do mine at 12 hours after glue- up when using Epon). My opinion is that you should start with Epon because there is much moreleeway in working time and you can get everything done more leisurely andwill have time to correct your mistakes. Don't get in a rush just becauseyour strips are ready to glue. Order some Epon and start another set ofstrips while you wait for the glue to come.Steve Weiss Hi Guys,I am ready to glue my first rod together and I'm wondering ifthereis a first time user friendly adhesive that I can get at a local woodworkingplace. Also I don't have a scale so may be one that will not require aperfect weight ratio mix.Any help would be great, I am very anxious to finishthisrod.thanksJoseph A Perrigo II from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Oct 6 12:07:23 1999 Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:06:49 +0800 Subject: RE: Glue owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu, RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu You never know, and the glue lines look OK to me. They define the hexbetter. It's all I use for my own rods for that reason. Looks especiallynice if you're into intermediates. Tony At 10:55 AM 10/6/99 -0600, Greg Holland wrote:Now that sounds like some sound advice...I haven't glued a rod yet either,but it seems to me that I should be more worried about learning somethingsthan about the color of glue lines, at least at this stage of the game. Ithink I'll try this since I'm pretty sure my first rod or three won't becosmetically perfect(or otherwise) anyway. Thanks for the tip. Greg Holland -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 10:07 AM RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Glue In a message dated 10/6/99 1:15:03 PM, Eastkoyfly@aol.com wrote: Joe - You may get other opinions, but my .02 is that you should try resourcinol. It can be mixed by volume, and if you keep temperature above70* as directed, it is very reliable. Also, if you have made any beginners mistakes in planing, like chips at nodes, split edges, etc, the dark glue line will show them to you. You will then know what to watch for nexttime. If I remember rightly, the mix ratio by volume is 4 parts liquid to 3 parts powder. I shake the powder can to fluff it up, and I usually thin themixture with about 1/2 of a part of alcohol. That is, if I am measuring the parts with a tablespoon, I add 1/2 tablespoon alcohol, or slightly less. Not too scientific, but it seems to work. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from darrell@rockclimbing.org Wed Oct 6 12:16:02 1999 Subject: Re: Silk fly lines In case someone wants to get a silk fly line... here's one... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=175659502 sorry, i do have a financial interest but thought others would want toknow... Darrell Lee-----Original Message----- 'RODMAKERS' Subject: Re: Silk fly lines Chris,I'd like your response to my article on silk lines at the following:http://www.flyanglersonline.com/The title got screwed up, but do you think Scientific Anglers will hiremeas a spokesperson?Best regards,Reed Chris Wohlford wrote: Mike,Here is a good article you might want to read:American Fly Fisher, vol.17, no.3, Fall 1991, "Silk Line Manufacturing" A photocopy is available from:American Museum of Fly Fishing, P.O. Box 42, Manchester, VT 05254, ph.(802) 362-3300 It won't give you detailed instructions but does make for someinteresting reading. Regards,Chris "Roberts, Michael" wrote: Hi everyone,I know you'll think I've been sniffing too much glue whenyouread this, but, here goes anyway......(I'll probably regret this).Doesanyone know where I can find out how to make my own silk lines? Ipromisenot to let on where I got the information when the men in the whitecoatscome to take me away. TIA. Mike from chris@artistree.com Wed Oct 6 13:20:49 1999 Subject: Re: Silk fly lines Reed,I thought your article was excellent! You did the most comprehensive jobof demystifying the sizes/types of lines and their uses that I've everseen. I also found it extremely interesting how you compared PVC to silkin regards to castability as well as product development. The castability issue really intrigues me and I wonder what other listmembers might think regarding the following issue. I have always felt that many of the rod tapers of the past might not beappropriate to use with today's lines. In other words, I wonder if usingthe exact copies of yesterdays tapers might not take into account howsilk lines effected the action/feel of a rod much verses using a modernPVC line. I am of the opinion that it does and subsequently it hasworked itself into my taper designs. Would love to hear any commentsalthough I have a feeling I'm going to NEED to go fishing afterwards. Regards,Chris Wohlford Reed Curry wrote: Chris,I'd like your response to my article on silk lines at the following:http://www.flyanglersonline.com/The title got screwed up, but do you think Scientific Anglers will hiremeas a spokesperson?Best regards,Reed from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Oct 6 13:37:22 1999 Thu, 7 Oct 1999 02:37:00 +0800 Subject: Re: Silk fly lines You'd have to be right there. Anybody who's ever cast a few differentbrands of line of the same weight on a rod will know some work well andothers don't. This is for plastic coated lines so the difference must beall the greater compared to silk. Then again some tapers don't sem tomatter which makes you wonder if the modern likes are better in somecaseseven though they weren't about when the rods were designed?Two side to the coin? Tony At 11:30 AM 10/6/99 +0000, Chris Wohlford wrote:Reed,I thought your article was excellent! You did the most comprehensive jobof demystifying the sizes/types of lines and their uses that I've everseen. I also found it extremely interesting how you compared PVC to silkin regards to castability as well as product development. The castability issue really intrigues me and I wonder what other listmembers might think regarding the following issue. I have always felt that many of the rod tapers of the past might not beappropriate to use with today's lines. In other words, I wonder if usingthe exact copies of yesterdays tapers might not take into account howsilk lines effected the action/feel of a rod much verses using a modernPVC line. I am of the opinion that it does and subsequently it hasworked itself into my taper designs. Would love to hear any commentsalthough I have a feeling I'm going to NEED to go fishing afterwards. Regards,Chris Wohlford Reed Curry wrote: Chris,I'd like your response to my article on silk lines at the following:http://www.flyanglersonline.com/The title got screwed up, but do you think Scientific Anglers willhire meas a spokesperson?Best regards,Reed /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from anglport@con2.com Wed Oct 6 13:41:25 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A7B5CB400FC; Wed, 06 Oct 1999 14:40:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Cortland Ferrules DITTO!!! At 09:31 AM 10/06/1999 -0500, Harry Boyd wrote:Steve,I've used a few Cortlands, and definitely prefer Bailey Wood's stuff.My problem with Cortland stuff has been two-fold. First, the welt's andmoisture seals are either epoxied on, or slodered with a very low tempsolder. If I heat the ferrule at all to make it easier to seat, the weltsand moisture plugs on the female come off VERY easily.Second, and contradicting what you said, I find the male's have to belapped forever to get them started. Seems to me that the males areabout.003-.005 oversize. Too much for my tastes. Guess I'll stick with BaileyWoods in the future. HarryBTW, Got the second email, so guess the address works. Steve Trauthwein wrote: Has anyone had any experience lapping these ferrules? I did one for a friend today, showing them how to as it where. It endedup being the first ferrule that I have overlapped. It happened quickly it, when the bottom of the ferrule first went in three quarters of itwent at the same time. I still have an 1/8" to lap but stopped for today as I didn't have a micwith me and wanted to see where the ferrule was before I continued.Withthe ferrule jammed in now and a decided pop when it is pulled out thereis a click with the waving of the rod. Left me perplexed. Before this Ihave only had experience lapping CSE ferrules and had to go at them tofit them well. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Wed Oct 6 13:51:30 1999 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id HAA21088; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 07:51:20 +1300 Subject: Re: Silk fly lines Tony and Mike, Only wimps use red backs ( their bite is bad but does not usually kill) .Try funnel webs Mike. A number of years ago , while living in Sydney a neighbour called me overthe fence to say she had been bitten by a spider which looked like a funnelweb .At that time there was no anidote and most people bitten died. I tookher to the hospital where she was asked to sit in a small room and waitfor6 hours . Basically there was no treatment , she had to sit and wait andseewhere she developed symptoms , or died, so they could confirm it was afunnel web. If she had not died in six hours it was not a funnel web and shecould go home. It sure was a long six hours , and it is amazing how manysymptoms you can develope when you have nothing to do but watch forthem. The end result was that after 6 hours they told her it could not have beenafunnel web and she could go home. We went via the pub !!! Ian Kearney At 04:33 PM 6/10/99 +0800, Tony Young wrote:Where do you think Mike got this idea from? Ever since reading that bookMikes' always got a shifting glancing look about him as he looks over yourshoulder then onto the ground then up in trees looking for likelycandidates for strange and un-natural uses for catterpillers. Personaly Ithink he's wating his time with them, Mike should be collecting andbreeding Red Back spiders. Sure, they're a little more hazardous to handlebut there are plenty of them. You can make a weekly red back sweep of myplace if you like. ;-) Tony from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Wed Oct 6 13:51:35 1999 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id HAA21104; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 07:51:25 +1300 Subject: Re: Goggle-eye Tony, We will be able to watch both of these teams play in the final of the WorldCup at the time of the Southern Gathering. Sorry about the result. Ian Kearney At 11:40 PM 6/10/99 +0800, Tony Young wrote:On Mon, 4 Oct 1999, Tony Spezio wrote: They look like a fat sunfish with big buggy eyes. Yes they do fight hard.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Hey, that's me after I've had a few at a good game of Rugby, especiallywhen it's an All Black vs Wallaby match. Tony from knflyrod@home.com Wed Oct 6 14:28:53 1999 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:28:49 -0700 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Cortland Ferrules I don't get it... I have used Cortland on 20-25 rods and had trouble,because of my own impatience, once. Takes some time but based on thesavings I would love to get the same "hourly rate" for a goodreconditioning or refurb job. John, I'll be happy to swap some Montaques -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Cortland Ferrules At 07:32 PM 10/05/1999 -0700, Steve Trauthwein wrote:Has anyone had any experience lapping these ferrules? I did one for a friend today, showing them how to as it where. It endedup being the first ferrule that I have overlapped. It happened quickly it, when the bottom of the ferrule first went in three quarters of itwent at the same time. I still have an 1/8" to lap but stopped for today as I didn't have a micwith me and wanted to see where the ferrule was before I continued.Withthe ferrule jammed in now and a decided pop when it is pulled out thereis a click with the waving of the rod. Left me perplexed. Before this Ihave only had experience lapping CSE ferrules and had to go at them tofit them well. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Junk, worth far less than the few bucks short of Super Swiss orUniferrulesthat you have to pay for them. I would rather use old Montague ferrules.Geeze I'm cranky tonite.John from noblur@stic.net Wed Oct 6 16:17:36 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0- 60503U15500L11000S0V35)with SMTP id net for ;Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:17:32 -0500 Subject: Laps boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0035_01BF1016.CD3E4B80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01BF1016.CD3E4B80 Well guys, much to my dismay, I've lost my lapping company ! That, or =the area code has changed to something Ma Bell doesn't know about ! The company is/was Helical Lap Co. in the Detroit area. The A.C was 313. =I will now get on the web, and try to find some other sources. Most my =lap inserts are for larger sizes, than most ferrules, and I need to get =smaller sizes of them. I'm not positive, but the best machine tool supplier I have found is =Traver's Tool, in Flushing, N.Y.. I'll report back shortly on the blind =hole laps too. GMA ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01BF1016.CD3E4B80 Well guys, much to my dismay, I've lost my lapping company= ! The company is/was Helical Lap Co. in the Detroit area. The= 313. I will now get on the web, and try to find some other = lap inserts are for larger sizes, than most ferrules, and I need to get = sizes of them. I'm not positive, but the best machine tool supplier I have = is Traver's Tool, in Flushing, N.Y.. I'll report back shortly on the = laps too. GMA ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01BF1016.CD3E4B80-- from channer@hubwest.com Wed Oct 6 19:01:40 1999 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A353ECC019C; Wed, 06 Oct 1999 18:03:31 MST Subject: Re: Silk fly lines At 11:30 AM 10/06/1999 +0000, Chris Wohlford wrote:Reed,I thought your article was excellent! You did the most comprehensive jobof demystifying the sizes/types of lines and their uses that I've everseen. I also found it extremely interesting how you compared PVC to silkin regards to castability as well as product development. The castability issue really intrigues me and I wonder what other listmembers might think regarding the following issue. I have always felt that many of the rod tapers of the past might not beappropriate to use with today's lines. In other words, I wonder if usingthe exact copies of yesterdays tapers might not take into account howsilk lines effected the action/feel of a rod much verses using a modernPVC line. I am of the opinion that it does and subsequently it hasworked itself into my taper designs. Would love to hear any commentsalthough I have a feeling I'm going to NEED to go fishing afterwards. Regards,Chris Wohlford Reed;I totally agree, the article was great. Chris;I built a Payne 98, 7' 4 wt. and I like it a lot better with a level 3 silkline I found at a junk shop than the modern 4 dt i have.Anybody have a 4 or 5 dt silk that they don't want anymore, any conditionwill do as long as it is restorable?John from channer@hubwest.com Wed Oct 6 19:09:10 1999 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A5181B5024C; Wed, 06 Oct 1999 18:11:04 MST Subject: Re: Cortland Ferrules At 02:30 PM 10/06/1999 -0500, Ron Huff wrote:I don't get it... I have used Cortland on 20-25 rods and had trouble,because of my own impatience, once. Takes some time but based on thesavings I would love to get the same "hourly rate" for a goodreconditioning or refurb job. John, I'll be happy to swap some Montaques Ron;Like I said, I was cranky last nite, I guess Cortlands are better thanMontagues, but Grangers are better than Cortlands. I just don't feel thatthere is enough savings to justify using them over Super Swiss or the newUniferrules from REC. I would rather save money on a rod by using acheaperreel seat then an inferior ferrule. I don't skimp on either, except for myown rods, most of the rods I build to sell and I use the best components onthem that I can find. The Cortland ferrules also look cheap next to theothers and I think it is a turn off that I don't need.John from bob@downandacross.com Wed Oct 6 19:23:32 1999 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: silk lines and ebay auction posting Just a tip following the eBay silk line posting. That price for a level line in any condition is not worth it. It was up to $122.50 when I checked. Level lines aren't as bad as Gierach's book makes them out, but they are not $100+ good! I just got an Ocean City no. 35 reel with a great line 5wt. level line for $15 at a flea market. He was stunned when I smiled and did not haggle one bit. Afetr I told him, "I would have paid that for the line" I felt like an ass for gloating. The guy thought I wanted the reel. Most dealers figure the line is crapola. Very often they are usable with a bit of reconditioning. The archives have a lot on that. I have had better luck on eBay with checking the reel section and inquiring about a line that may be left on it. I have just recieved a couple of lines from eBay this way. Search through the picture postings and buy thatcheap automatic reel if it has a silk line. Most sellers can at least tell you that it is silk (cloth) and not plastic. If it's a smaller diameter reel, it will most likely be a usable trout line. Most production reels go rather cheaply there. Just my 2 cents.All the best,Bob M.Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com from darrell@rockclimbing.org Wed Oct 6 19:59:59 1999 Subject: Re: silk lines and ebay auction posting Bob, I do the same thing of cruising the flea markets and have bought reels onlybecause of the silk line, but I usually sell the used lines in pairs asoften one or the other will not be good so remember, if it's been on a reel good. I've had lines that wouldn't hold the weight of the reel. Used linesin good condition usually sell for around $20 each, more if they are doubletapered. The one on ebay has never been used and is a fine collectible by itself withthe box and label. It's currently at $102 and perhaps the buyer will collectit and not fish it. I'll be interested to find out after the auction isover. Is a Meek #44 reel worth $10,000.00... or a Garrison worth $5,000? Maybenot to you, but to the collectors of those classics, I'm sure they thinkso... value is subjective... like beauty... Would someone like to buy some shakespeare or H-I automatic reels, sorrynoline included??? 8^) Darrell Lee -----Original Message----- Subject: silk lines and ebay auction posting Just a tip following the eBay silk line posting. That price for a levelline in any condition is not worth it. It was up to $122.50 when I checked.Level lines aren't as bad as Gierach's book makes them out, but they arenot $100+ good! I just got an Ocean City no. 35 reel with a great line 5wt. level line for$15 at a flea market. He was stunned when I smiled and did not haggleonebit. Afetr I told him, "I would have paid that for the line" I felt like anass for gloating. The guy thought I wanted the reel. Most dealers figurethe line is crapola. Very often they are usable with a bit ofreconditioning. The archives have a lot on that. I have had better luck on eBay with checking the reel section andinquiringabout a line that may be left on it. I have just recieved a couple of lines from eBay this way. Search through the picture postings and buy thatcheapautomatic reel if it has a silk line. Most sellers can at least tell youthat it is silk (cloth) and not plastic. If it's a smaller diameter reel,it will most likely be a usable trout line. Most production reels go rathercheaply there. Just my 2 cents.All the best,Bob M.Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com from noblur@stic.net Wed Oct 6 20:09:44 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0- 60503U15500L11000S0V35)with SMTP id net; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:09:41 - 0500 Subject: Re: silk lines and ebay auction posting boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF1037.3D2D7C20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF1037.3D2D7C20 I find this going back and looking for the old silk lines most =interesting. Is it that you like the concentration of the weight, in a smaller =diameter ? I recall those old soft finishes, and stringing them out =between trees, to dry, waxing, etc. ! I wonder if this is for the better =flow of the line through the older rod's small guides ? I realize the =new lines have allot of surface drag, due to their larger diameter, and =slick finish that has great friction. As these lines have changed, I found it best to use a size smaller on =our old treasures, than is advised with the old lines. Does anyone =concur with this ? I have felt at times like I was pushing the rod too =hard, when starting to reach out further. For instance, i like to use a =4wt., instead of a 5, or a 7, in place of an 8, when bass bugging. Anyway, I'm just curious, as it's interesting, GMA Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 10:20 PMSubject: silk lines and ebay auction posting Just a tip following the eBay silk line posting. That price for a = line in any condition is not worth it. It was up to $122.50 when I = Level lines aren't as bad as Gierach's book makes them out, but they = not $100+ good! I just got an Ocean City no. 35 reel with a great line 5wt. level line = $15 at a flea market. He was stunned when I smiled and did not haggle = bit. Afetr I told him, "I would have paid that for the line" I felt = ass for gloating. The guy thought I wanted the reel. Most dealers = reconditioning. The archives have a lot on that. I have had better luck on eBay with checking the reel section and = about a line that may be left on it. I have just recieved a couple of = from eBay this way. Search through the picture postings and buy that = automatic reel if it has a silk line. Most sellers can at least tell = that it is silk (cloth) and not plastic. If it's a smaller diameter = it will most likely be a usable trout line. Most production reels go = cheaply there. Just my 2 cents.All the best,Bob M.Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF1037.3D2D7C20 I find this going back and looking for the old silk lines = interesting. Is it that you like the concentration of the weight, in a = diameter ? I recall those old soft finishes, and stringing them out = trees, to dry, waxing, etc. ! I wonder if this is for the better flow of = line through the older rod's small guides ? I realize the new lines have = of surface drag, due to their larger diameter, and slick finish that has = friction. As these lines have changed, I found it best to use a size = on our old treasures, than is advised with the old lines. Does anyone = with this ? I have felt at times like I was pushing the rod too hard, = starting to reach out further. For instance, i like to use a 4wt., = 5, or a 7, in place of an 8, when bass bugging. Anyway, I'm just curious, as it's =interesting, GMA ----- Original Message ----- maulucci = Sent: Wednesday, October 06, = PMSubject: silk lines and ebay = postingJust a tip following the eBay silk line posting. That = a level line in any condition is not worth it. It was up to = checked. Level lines aren't as bad as Gierach's book makes them = they are not $100+ good!I just got an Ocean City no. 35 = a great line 5wt. level line for $15 at a flea market. He was = I smiled and did not haggle one bit. Afetr I told him, "I would = that for the line" I felt like an ass for gloating. The guy = wanted the reel. Most dealers figure the line is crapola. Very = are usable with a bit of reconditioning. The archives have a lot = that.I have had better luck on eBay with checking the reel = inquiring about a line that may be left on it. I have just = couple of lines from eBay this way. Search through the picture = and buy that cheap automatic reel if it has a silk line. Most = at least tell you that it is silk (cloth) and not plastic. If it's = smaller diameter reel, it will most likely be a usable trout line. = production reels go rather cheaply there. Just my 2 cents.All = best,Bob M.Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF1037.3D2D7C20-- from rcurry@ttlc.net Wed Oct 6 20:18:32 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A5C598610106; Wed, 06 Oct 1999 21:22:13 -0400 Subject: Re: silk lines and ebay auction posting Bob,I agree, $15 is my max for level silk lines in brand new condition. I havecollected them in all sizes and will, DV, make some tapered lines fromthemthis winter. Marvin Hedge used to be able to construct tapers for eachrod/distance in a few hours; surely I can do it in a few months.Best regards,Reed bob maulucci wrote: Just a tip following the eBay silk line posting. That price for a levelline in any condition is not worth it. It was up to $122.50 when Ichecked.Level lines aren't as bad as Gierach's book makes them out, but they arenot $100+ good! I just got an Ocean City no. 35 reel with a great line 5wt. level line for$15 at a flea market. He was stunned when I smiled and did not haggleonebit. Afetr I told him, "I would have paid that for the line" I felt like anass for gloating. The guy thought I wanted the reel. Most dealers figurethe line is crapola. Very often they are usable with a bit ofreconditioning. The archives have a lot on that. I have had better luck on eBay with checking the reel section andinquiringabout a line that may be left on it. I have just recieved a couple of lines from eBay this way. Search through the picture postings and buy thatcheapautomatic reel if it has a silk line. Most sellers can at least tell youthat it is silk (cloth) and not plastic. If it's a smaller diameter reel,it will most likely be a usable trout line. Most production reels go rathercheaply there. Just my 2 cents.All the best,Bob M.Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com from djk762@hotmail.com Wed Oct 6 21:08:26 1999 Wed, 06 Oct 1999 19:08:15 PDT Subject: Nyatex 4 Reelseats? Rodmakers, Anyone ever use nyatex for glueing on reelseats? DavidKashuba FairOaks CA ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from jaquin@netsync.net Wed Oct 6 21:23:46 1999 Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:23:39 -0400 Subject: Re: if you need help finding Epon epoxy or glaced cotton binding thread,contact meoff line. Jerry "David K. Rinker" wrote: A request .... If anyone is placing an order for Epon and catalyst I wouldbe interested in tacking on a quart or so. It seems that MillerStephensondoesn't supply individuals . I've been interested in trying it out andcannot find a source other than Jon Livet but his phone is disconnected.Thanks in advance Dave Rinker from BambooRods@aol.com Wed Oct 6 21:27:55 1999 Subject: Re: silk lines and ebay auction posting In a message dated 10/6/99 8:27:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bob@downandacross.com writes: In the future don't tip them off even after the deal. That dealer probably won't make the same mistake again.Doug Hall from landeen@valley-internet.net Wed Oct 6 21:28:07 1999 0000 Subject: Re: Glue I use DAP Weldwood plastic resin and a friend has used it for years. It iseasy to use and you just add water to the consistency you want. It doesn'tset up so fast that you have time to work on straightening after gluing.Good luck.--- --Original Message----- Subject: Glue Hi Guys,I am ready to glue my first rod together and I'm wondering if thereis a first time user friendly adhesive that I can get at a local woodworkingplace. Also I don't have a scale so may be one that will not require aperfect weight ratio mix.Any help would be great, I am very anxious to finishthisrod.thanksJoseph A Perrigo II from richjez@enteract.com Wed Oct 6 22:52:58 1999 0000 Subject: Re: silk lines and ebay auction posting At flea markets, I ask for a price for just the silk line. After the bewildered looks, I tell them a friend, named Reed ( I really do use that name shamelessly), is interested in trying to restore. I point out the reel will sell for the same price without the silk. The price, less reel, has usually been $5.Rich Jezioro At 09:20 PM 10/6/99 -0400, Reed Curry wrote:Bob,I agree, $15 is my max for level silk lines in brand new condition. I havecollected them in all sizes and will, DV, make some tapered lines fromthemthis winter. Marvin Hedge used to be able to construct tapers for eachrod/distance in a few hours; surely I can do it in a few months.Best regards,Reed bob maulucci wrote: Just a tip following the eBay silk line posting. That price for a levelline in any condition is not worth it. It was up to $122.50 when Ichecked.Level lines aren't as bad as Gierach's book makes them out, but they arenot $100+ good! I just got an Ocean City no. 35 reel with a great line 5wt. level line for$15 at a flea market. He was stunned when I smiled and did not haggleonebit. Afetr I told him, "I would have paid that for the line" I felt like anass for gloating. The guy thought I wanted the reel. Most dealers figurethe line is crapola. Very often they are usable with a bit ofreconditioning. The archives have a lot on that. I have had better luck on eBay with checking the reel section andinquiringabout a line that may be left on it. I have just recieved a couple oflines from eBay this way. Search through the picture postings and buy thatcheapautomatic reel if it has a silk line. Most sellers can at least tell youthat it is silk (cloth) and not plastic. If it's a smaller diameter reel,it will most likely be a usable trout line. Most production reels gorathercheaply there. Just my 2 cents.All the best,Bob M.Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@ /||/______/_||_________________________________________||/\/ \ > > from DNHayashida@aol.com Thu Oct 7 01:34:43 1999 Subject: Level Silk Lines As I was learning to fly fish, I was always told how bad level lineswere. I was told never get a level line - you can't cast them veryfar, and they will scare the fish away when they slap the water. Maybe this is true with plastic lines.... I have just finished restoring a level silk line, and I tried lawn castingit this evening. It isn't bad. Not bad at all. It casts more like a weight forward than the tapered silk lines do. Tapered silk lines tend to havereally long and fine tapers. Maybe a tapered silk line should have acouple feet (gasp!) trimmed off. Anyway, with a little more weight ofthe line out past the tip top, the level silk line tends to turn over theleader a little better. So don't pass up level silk lines, I think they willsurprise you. It did me. Darryl from channer@hubwest.com Thu Oct 7 06:24:08 1999 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A35024F30034; Thu, 07 Oct 1999 05:26:08 MST Subject: Re: Level Silk Lines At 02:34 AM 10/07/1999 EDT, DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: As I was learning to fly fish, I was always told how bad level lineswere. I was told never get a level line - you can't cast them veryfar, and they will scare the fish away when they slap the water. Maybe this is true with plastic lines.... I have just finished restoring a level silk line, and I tried lawn castingit this evening. It isn't bad. Not bad at all. It casts more like a weight forward than the tapered silk lines do. Tapered silk lines tend to havereally long and fine tapers. Maybe a tapered silk line should have acouple feet (gasp!) trimmed off. Anyway, with a little more weight ofthe line out past the tip top, the level silk line tends to turn over theleader a little better. So don't pass up level silk lines, I think they willsurprise you. It did me. Darryl Darryl;As I said, I have been using a level 3(at least, I think that's what it is,I measured with my caliper and that's what the numbers I get match up to)on my 7' 4wt and like it a lot for fishing. It casts short better, mendsbetter and floats better. I don't seem to have any trouble with distancewith it, but I don't generally use it anywhere I have to cast more thanabout 20' and the fly line doesn't slap the water, or not any worse than Ido with any other line. If I could buy a new one for the same price as anyother line, it would be no contest, I would use silk all the time. I'llhave to go back to the junk shop and see what else they have. John from noblur@stic.net Thu Oct 7 07:22:25 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0- 60503U15500L11000S0V35)with SMTP id net; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 07:22:22 - 0500 Subject: Re: Level Silk Lines boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003F_01BF1095.36A333A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01BF1095.36A333A0 As long as you are working within 40', a level line seems to work about =like a DT. In my early years, an old salty man, Don West, a fishing pal =of Paul H. Young, taught a number of us how to lawn test a rod's ability =to push a line. When it started to overload, then that length was =marked, and weighed. This told you where the rod worked best, and was =safest, for a given line. GMA Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 6:25 AMSubject: Re: Level Silk Lines At 02:34 AM 10/07/1999 EDT, DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: As I was learning to fly fish, I was always told how bad level lineswere. I was told never get a level line - you can't cast them very Maybe this is true with plastic lines.... I have just finished restoring a level silk line, and I tried lawn =castingit this evening. It isn't bad. Not bad at all. It casts more like a = forward than the tapered silk lines do. Tapered silk lines tend to =havereally long and fine tapers. Maybe a tapered silk line should have acouple feet (gasp!) trimmed off. Anyway, with a little more weight ofthe line out past the tip top, the level silk line tends to turn over =theleader a little better. So don't pass up level silk lines, I think =they willsurprise you. It did me. Darryl Darryl;As I said, I have been using a level 3(at least, I think that's what =it is,I measured with my caliper and that's what the numbers I get match up =to)on my 7' 4wt and like it a lot for fishing. It casts short better, =mendsbetter and floats better. I don't seem to have any trouble with =distancewith it, but I don't generally use it anywhere I have to cast more =thanabout 20' and the fly line doesn't slap the water, or not any worse =than Ido with any other line. If I could buy a new one for the same price as =anyother line, it would be no contest, I would use silk all the time. =I'll John ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01BF1095.36A333A0 As long as you are working within 40', a level line seems = about like a DT. In my early years, an old salty man, Don West, a = Paul H. Young, taught a number of us how to lawn test a rod's ability to = line. When it started to overload, then that length was marked, and = line. GMA ----- Original Message ----- = Sent: Thursday, October 07, = AMSubject: Re: Level Silk =Lines just finished restoring a level silk line, and I tried lawn = this evening. It isn't bad. Not bad at all. It casts more like a = using a level 3(at least, I think that's what it is,I measured = caliper and that's what the numbers I get match up to)on my 7' 4wt = like it a lot for fishing. It casts short better, mendsbetter and = better. I don't seem to have any trouble with distancewith it, but = generally use it anywhere I have to cast more thanabout 20' and = line doesn't slap the water, or not any worse than Ido with any = line. If I could buy a new one for the same price as anyother = would be no contest, I would use silk all the time. I'llhave to go = John ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01BF1095.36A333A0-- from lars32@gateway.net Thu Oct 7 07:57:25 1999 Subject: Laps boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01BF1099.BDA34DA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BF1099.BDA34DA0 Thanks to George Aldrich for taking the time to send graphics. Hoping =you can come up with the supplier of the tools. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BF1099.BDA34DA0 Thanks to George Aldrich fortaking = tools. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BF1099.BDA34DA0-- from rodmaker@becclesworkshop.freeserve.co.uk Thu Oct 7 08:53:271999 ([62.137.51.76]helo=default) Subject: Test boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01BF10D3.A5563F20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BF10D3.A5563F20 Hello chaps - just another test I'm afraid. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BF10D3.A5563F20 Hello chaps - just = afraid. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BF10D3.A5563F20-- from noblur@stic.net Thu Oct 7 08:57:54 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0- 60503U15500L11000S0V35)with SMTP id net; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:57:49 - 0500 "David W. Smith" Subject: Re: Level Silk Lines boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF10A2.8CBCE800" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF10A2.8CBCE800 "Over load" is determined by the feeling one gets when casting. When the =rod "feels" that it can't handle anymore line out, or "bogs down", you =stop there, and make a mark where the line is, at the tip. A piece of =tape works fine. Then, on a gram scale, you weight the amount of the =line from the tip, on out. This tells you what the rod can handle =without possibly damaging the cane, giving it a permanent set, or some =such. The test was usually done with a level line. Then you can duplicate this =weight into a WF, or DT, to tell you what size to use, within the =working range you need in casting/fishing. Today's CF/boron rods show a remarkable ability to take a line larger =than specified, and not have the line falling down around your ears ! = GMA Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 8:44 AMSubject: Re: Level Silk Lines How do you measure/determine "overload"? In other words, what is = As long as you are working within 40', a level line seems to work =about like a DT. In my early years, an old salty man, Don West, a =fishing pal of Paul H. Young, taught a number of us how to lawn test a =rod's ability to push a line. When it started to overload, then that =length was marked, and weighed. This told you where the rod worked best,= ----- Original Message -----From: channer Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 6:25 AMSubject: Re: Level Silk Lines As I was learning to fly fish, I was always told how bad level = were. I was told never get a level line - you can't cast them = I have just finished restoring a level silk line, and I tried = it this evening. It isn't bad. Not bad at all. It casts more like = forward than the tapered silk lines do. Tapered silk lines tend = really long and fine tapers. Maybe a tapered silk line should = couple feet (gasp!) trimmed off. Anyway, with a little more = the line out past the tip top, the level silk line tends to turn = leader a little better. So don't pass up level silk lines, I = As I said, I have been using a level 3(at least, I think that's = I measured with my caliper and that's what the numbers I get match = on my 7' 4wt and like it a lot for fishing. It casts short better, = better and floats better. I don't seem to have any trouble with = with it, but I don't generally use it anywhere I have to cast more = about 20' and the fly line doesn't slap the water, or not any = do with any other line. If I could buy a new one for the same = other line, it would be no contest, I would use silk all the time. = John ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF10A2.8CBCE800 "Over load" is determined by the feeling one gets when = When the rod "feels" that it can't handle anymore line out, or "bogs = stop there, and make a mark where the line is, at the tip. A piece of = fine. Then, on a gram scale, you weight the amount of the line from the = cane, giving it a permanent set, or some such. The test was usually done with a level line. Then you can = this weight into a WF, or DT, to tell you what size to use, within the = range you need in casting/fishing. Today's CF/boron rods show a remarkable ability to take a = larger than specified, and not have the line falling down around your = ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- DavidW. = Sent: Thursday, October 07, = AMSubject: Re: Level Silk =Lines other = As long as you are working within 40', a level line seems to work = like a DT. In my early years, an old salty man, Don West, a fishing = Paul H. Young, taught a number of us how to lawn test a rod's = push a line. When it started to overload, then that length was = weighed. This told you where the rod worked best, and was safest, = ----- Original Message ----- channer Sent: Thursday, October 07, = AM wrote: = Darryl; As I said, I have been using a level 3(at least, I = that's what it is, I measured with my caliper and that's what = numbers I get match up to) on my 7' 4wt and like it a lot for = It casts short better, mends better and floats better. I don't = have any trouble with distance with it, but I don't generally = anywhere I have to cast more than about 20' and the fly line = slap the water, or not any worse than I do with any other = could buy a new one for the same price as any other line, it = no contest, I would use silk all the time. I'll have to go = John ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF10A2.8CBCE800-- from caneman@clnk.com Thu Oct 7 09:15:21 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:13:28 -0500 Subject: Rodmaker page boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0032_01BF10A3.CBB4CA40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BF10A3.CBB4CA40 Just curious... What happened to the tapers page on the Rodmakers page. =I went there and was curious to see what tapers I had posted there =(brain cells have depleted since I submitted them, and was just curious =to see) and I can't get them to come up. Bob-----Original Message-----From: george M. Aldrich Date: Thursday, October 07, 1999 9:02 AMSubject: Re: Level Silk Lines "Over load" is determined by the feeling one gets when casting. When =the rod "feels" that it can't handle anymore line out, or "bogs down", =you stop there, and make a mark where the line is, at the tip. A piece =of tape works fine. Then, on a gram scale, you weight the amount of the =line from the tip, on out. This tells you what the rod can handle =without possibly damaging the cane, giving it a permanent set, or some =such. The test was usually done with a level line. Then you can duplicate =this weight into a WF, or DT, to tell you what size to use, within the =working range you need in casting/fishing. Today's CF/boron rods show a remarkable ability to take a line =larger than specified, and not have the line falling down around your =ears ! For touch, and love of the cane, these are a totally different =matter ! GMA Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 8:44 AMSubject: Re: Level Silk Lines How do you measure/determine "overload"? In other words, what = As long as you are working within 40', a level line seems to =work about like a DT. In my early years, an old salty man, Don West, a =fishing pal of Paul H. Young, taught a number of us how to lawn test a =rod's ability to push a line. When it started to overload, then that =length was marked, and weighed. This told you where the rod worked best,= ----- Original Message -----From: channer Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 6:25 AMSubject: Re: Level Silk Lines As I was learning to fly fish, I was always told how = were. I was told never get a level line - you can't = far, and they will scare the fish away when they slap = I have just finished restoring a level silk line, and I = it this evening. It isn't bad. Not bad at all. It casts = forward than the tapered silk lines do. Tapered silk = really long and fine tapers. Maybe a tapered silk line = couple feet (gasp!) trimmed off. Anyway, with a little = the line out past the tip top, the level silk line = leader a little better. So don't pass up level silk = As I said, I have been using a level 3(at least, I think = I measured with my caliper and that's what the numbers I = on my 7' 4wt and like it a lot for fishing. It casts = better and floats better. I don't seem to have any = with it, but I don't generally use it anywhere I have to = about 20' and the fly line doesn't slap the water, or = do with any other line. If I could buy a new one for the = other line, it would be no contest, I would use silk all = have to go back to the junk shop and see what else they = John ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BF10A3.CBB4CA40 Just curious... What happened tothe = had posted there (brain cells have depleted since I submitted them, and = curious to see) and I can't get them to come up. Bob -----Original = Rodmakers <RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= Thursday, October 07, 1999 9:02 AMSubject: Re: Level = Lines"Over load" is determined by the feeling one = when casting. When the rod "feels" that it can't handle = line out, or "bogs down", you stop there, and make a mark = the line is, at the tip. A piece of tape works fine. Then, on a gram = you weight the amount of the line from the tip, on out. This tells = permanent set, or some such. The test was usually done with a level line. Then you = duplicate this weight into a WF, or DT, to tell you what size to = the working range you need in casting/fishing. Today's CF/boron rods show a remarkable ability to take= larger than specified, and not have the line falling down around = ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- = Smith Sent: Thursday, October = 8:44 AMSubject: Re: Level Silk =LinesHow do you measure/determine = As long as you are working within 40', a level line seems = about like a DT. In my early years, an old salty man, Don = fishing pal of Paul H. Young, taught a number of us how to = a rod's ability to push a line. When it started to overload, = that length was marked, and weighed. This told you where the = worked best, and was safest, for a given = ----- Original Message =----- channer Sent: Thursday, = 1999 6:25 AMSubject: Re: = scare the fish away when they slap the water. = finished restoring a level silk line, and I tried lawn = tapers. Maybe a tapered silk line should have a = feet (gasp!) trimmed off. Anyway, with a little more = As I said, I have been using a level 3(at least, I = that's what it is, I measured with my caliper and = what the numbers I get match up to) on my 7' 4wt and = a lot for fishing. It casts short better, mends = floats better. I don't seem to have any trouble with = with it, but I don't generally use it anywhere I = cast more than about 20' and the fly line doesn't = water, or not any worse than I do with any other = could buy a new one for the same price as any other = would be no contest, I would use silk all the time. I'll = have to go back to the junk shop and see what else = have. =John ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BF10A3.CBB4CA40-- from rodmaker@becclesworkshop.freeserve.co.uk Thu Oct 7 09:18:351999 helo=default) Subject: Impregnation of cane boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0027_01BF10D7.0E223880" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01BF10D7.0E223880 Hello everybody,I've been shadowing the list for some time and would be curious to =hear peoples opinions on impregnation of bamboo rods.Have list members tried the process and if so with what results? =Are there any sites/archives that people might suggest for information =about Wes Jordan and his tapers? Gosh - so many questions and so little =time...........I'll look forward to reading any comments about varnish =finishing Vs impregnation - with many thanks in advance.Tight lines,Mark(yes I know - the ID is in my wifes name!) ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01BF10D7.0E223880 everybody, I've = shadowing the list for some time and would be curious to hear peoples = on impregnation of bamboo rods. Have = sites/archives that people might suggest for information about Wes = his tapers? Gosh - so many questions and so little time...........I'll = forward to reading any comments about varnish finishing Vs impregnation= many thanks in advance. lines,Mark(yesI = in my wifes name!) ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01BF10D7.0E223880-- from DNHayashida@aol.com Thu Oct 7 09:19:43 1999 Subject: Re: Level Silk Lines If I could buy a new one for the same price as any other line, it would be no contest, I would use silk all the time.I'll have to go back to the junk shop and see what else they have. John I'm with you on that. Even if new silk lines cost twice as much asplastic lines I would buy them, but 4 to 5 times as much is alittle steep.Darryl from noblur@stic.net Thu Oct 7 09:30:50 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0- 60503U15500L11000S0V35)with SMTP id net; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:30:44 - 0500 Subject: Re: Level Silk Lines boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01BF10A7.2607EE20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BF10A7.2607EE20 Come on guys, WHY are you so partial to silk ? Is it the casting ? GMA Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 9:19 AMSubject: Re: Level Silk Lines other line, it would be no contest, I would use silk all the time. John I'm with you on that. Even if new silk lines cost twice as much as plastic lines I would buy them, but 4 to 5 times as much is alittle steep.Darryl ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BF10A7.2607EE20 Come on guys, WHY are you so partial to silk ? Is it the = ? GMA ----- Original Message ----- DNHayashida@aol.com = Sent: Thursday, October 07, = AMSubject: Re: Level Silk =Lines you on that. Even if new silk lines cost twice as much asplastic = steep.Darryl ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BF10A7.2607EE20-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Oct 7 10:20:30 1999 Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:20:07 +0800 Subject: Re: Silk fly lines Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Ian,the pub was a good idea.Trouble is though there aren't any Funnel Webs out here, pity, but I wonderif they'd have the silk a Red Back does. At 07:51 AM 10/7/99 +1300, Ian Kearney wrote:Tony and Mike, Only wimps use red backs ( their bite is bad but does not usually kill) .Try funnel webs Mike. A number of years ago , while living in Sydney a neighbour called me overthe fence to say she had been bitten by a spider which looked like afunnelweb .At that time there was no anidote and most people bitten died. Itookher to the hospital where she was asked to sit in a small room and waitfor6 hours . Basically there was no treatment , she had to sit and wait andseewhere she developed symptoms , or died, so they could confirm it was afunnel web. If she had not died in six hours it was not a funnel web andshecould go home. It sure was a long six hours , and it is amazing how manysymptoms you can develope when you have nothing to do but watch forthem. The end result was that after 6 hours they told her it could not have beenafunnel web and she could go home. We went via the pub !!! Ian Kearney At 04:33 PM 6/10/99 +0800, Tony Young wrote:Where do you think Mike got this idea from? Ever since reading that bookMikes' always got a shifting glancing look about him as he looks overyourshoulder then onto the ground then up in trees looking for likelycandidates for strange and un-natural uses for catterpillers. Personaly Ithink he's wating his time with them, Mike should be collecting andbreeding Red Back spiders. Sure, they're a little more hazardous tohandlebut there are plenty of them. You can make a weekly red back sweep ofmyplace if you like. ;-) Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Oct 7 10:28:49 1999 Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:28:36 +0800 Subject: Re: Laps types="text/plain,text/html";boundary="=====================_8983423==_.ALT" --=====================_8983423==_.ALT George,that's a disater! How tricky do these things look to make as long as toyhavethe gear? The only thing I can *see* that would be difficult is the castironcutter. Do you think carbon steel would work? Tony At 04:21 PM 10/6/99 -0500, george M. Aldrich wrote: Well guys, much to my dismay, I've lost my lapping company ! That, or thearea code has changed to something Ma Bell doesn't know about ! The company is/was Helical Lap Co. in the Detroit area. The A.C was 313.Iwill now get on the web, and try to find some other sources. Most my lapinserts are for larger sizes, than most ferrules, and I need to getsmallersizes of them. I'm not positive, but the best machine tool supplier I have found isTraver'sTool, in Flushing, N.Y.. I'll report back shortly on the blind hole lapstoo. GMA /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_8983423==_.ALT George,that's a disater! How tricky do these things look to make as long as toyhave the gear? The only thing I can *see* that would be difficult is thecast iron cutter. Do you think carbon steel would work? Tony At 04:21 PM 10/6/99 -0500, george M. Aldrich wrote: Well guys, much to my dismay, I've lost mylapping company ! That, or the area code has changed to something Ma Belldoesn't know about ! The company is/was Helical Lap Co. in the Detroit area. The A.C was313. I will now get on the web, and try to find some other sources. Mostmy lap inserts are for larger sizes, than most ferrules, and I need toget smaller sizes of them. I'm not positive, but the best machine tool supplier I have found isTraver's Tool, in Flushing, N.Y.. I'll report back shortly on the blindhole laps too. GMA /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_8983423==_.ALT-- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Oct 7 10:34:52 1999 Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:34:37 -0700 Subject: Re: Nyatex 4 Reelseats? Seems to me an awful long drying time to keep your reelseat in position. Almost anyepoxy from the hardware store will do a fine job with reel seats. Whyaggravate yourself with drying time in days rather than in minutes. Harry David Kashuba wrote: Rodmakers, Anyone ever use nyatex for glueing on reelseats? David Kashuba Fair Oaks CA ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Oct 7 10:40:56 1999 Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:40:40 -0700 Subject: Re: Rodmaker page boundary="------------60EF35F471B522E1FA0C3EB2" --------------60EF35F471B522E1FA0C3EB2 Bob,Your tapers were still there the last time I got Jerry's page towork. He's having some kind of trouble with hosts, I think. If I knowJerry he'll get it all straightened out soon. Harry Bob Nunley wrote: Just curious... What happened to the tapers page on the Rodmakerspage. I went there and was curious to see what tapers I had postedthere (brain cells have depleted since I submitted them, and was justcurious to see) and I can't get them to come up. Bob -----Original Message-----From: george M. Aldrich Date: Thursday, October 07, 1999 9:02 AMSubject: Re: Level Silk Lines"Over load" is determined by the feeling one gets whencasting. When the rod "feels" that it can't handle anymoreline out, or "bogs down", you stop there, and make a markwhere the line is, at the tip. A piece of tape works fine.Then, on a gram scale, you weight the amount of the line from the tip, on out. This tells you what the rod can handlewithout possibly damaging the cane, giving it a permanentset, or some such. The test was usually done with a levelline. Then you can duplicate this weight into a WF, or DT,to tell you what size to use, within the working range youneed in casting/fishing. Today's CF/boron rods show aremarkable ability to take a line larger than specified, andnot have the line falling down around your ears ! For touch,and love of the cane, these are a totally different matter! GMA ----- Original Message -----From: David W. Smith Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 8:44 AMSubject: Re: Level Silk LinesHow do you measure/determine "overload"? Inother words, what is overload?thanks, dws. george M. Aldrich wrote: As long as you are working within 40', a levelline seems to work about like a DT. In my earlyyears, an old salty man, Don West, a fishing palof Paul H. Young, taught a number of us how tolawn test a rod's ability to push a line. Whenit started to overload, then that length wasmarked, and weighed. This told you where the rodworked best, and was safest, for a given line.GMA ----- Original Message -----From: channer Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 6:25AMSubject: Re: Level Silk LinesAt 02:34 AM 10/07/1999 EDT,DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: As I was learning to fly fish, I wasalways told how bad level lineswere. I was told never get a levelline - you can't cast them veryfar, and they will scare the fishaway when they slap the water.Maybe this is true with plasticlines.... I have just finished restoring alevel silk line, and I tried lawncastingit this evening. It isn't bad. Notbad at all. It casts more like aweightforward than the tapered silk linesdo. Tapered silk lines tend to havereally long and fine tapers. Maybe atapered silk line should have acouple feet (gasp!) trimmed off.Anyway, with a little more weight ofthe line out past the tip top, thelevel silk line tends to turn over the leader a little better. So don't passup level silk lines, I think they will surprise you. It did me. Darryl Darryl;As I said, I have been using a level3(at least, I think that's what it is, I measured with my caliper and that'swhat the numbers I get match up to)on my 7' 4wt and like it a lot forfishing. It casts short better, mendsbetter and floats better. I don't seemto have any trouble with distancewith it, but I don't generally use itanywhere I have to cast more thanabout 20' and the fly line doesn'tslap the water, or not any worse thanIdo with any other line. If I could buya new one for the same price as anyother line, it would be no contest, Iwould use silk all the time. I'llhave to go back to the junk shop andsee what else they have.John --------------60EF35F471B522E1FA0C3EB2 Bob, there straightenedout soon. Bob Nunley wrote: curious... thereand was curious to see what tapers I had posted there (brain cells havedepleted since I submitted them, and was just curious to see) and I can't -----OriginalMessage-----From: george M. Aldrich <noblur@stic.net> David W. Smith <earsdws@duke.edu>Date: Thursday, October 07,1999 9:02 AMSubject: Re: Level SilkLines casting.When the rod "feels" that it can't handle anymore line out, or "bogs down",you stop there, and make a mark where the line is, at the tip. A pieceof tape works fine. Then, on a gram scale, you weight the amount of theline from the tip, on out. This tells you what the rod can handle possibly damaging the cane, giving it a permanent set, or some test was usually done with a level line. Then you can duplicate this weightinto a WF, or DT, to tell you what size to use, within the working range remarkableability to take a line larger than specified, and not have the line fallingdown around your ears ! For touch, and love of the cane, these are a totally ----- Original Message ----- From:David W.Smith Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 8:44AM Subject: Re: Level Silk Lines whatis overload?thanks, dws.george M. Aldrich wrote: As long as you are working within40', a level line seems to work about like a DT. In my early years, anold salty man, Don West, a fishing pal of Paul H. Young, taught a numberof us how to lawn test a rod's ability to push a line. When it startedto overload, then that length was marked, and weighed. This told youwherethe rod worked best, and was safest, for a given line. GMA ----- Original Message ----- From:channer Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 6:25AM Subject: Re: Level Silk Lines wrote: As I was learning to fly fish, I was always told how bad level lineswere. I was told never get a level line - you can't cast them veryfar, and they will scare the fish away when they slap the water.Maybe this is true with plastic lines.... I have just finished restoring a level silk line, and I tried lawncastingit this evening. It isn't bad. Not bad at all. It casts more likea weightforward than the tapered silk lines do. Tapered silk lines tend tohavereally long and fine tapers. Maybe a tapered silk line should haveacouple feet (gasp!) trimmed off. Anyway, with a little more weightofthe line out past the tip top, the level silk line tends to turn overtheleader a little better. So don't pass up level silk lines, I thinkthey willsurprise you. It did me. Darryl Darryl;As I said, I have been using a level 3(at least, I think that's whatit is,I measured with my caliper and that's what the numbers I get matchup to)on my 7' 4wt and like it a lot for fishing. It casts short better,mendsbetter and floats better. I don't seem to have any trouble withdistancewith it, but I don't generally use it anywhere I have to cast morethanabout 20' and the fly line doesn't slap the water, or not any worsethan Ido with any other line. If I could buy a new one for the same priceas anyother line, it would be no contest, I would use silk all the time.I'llhave to go back to the junk shop and see what else they have.John --------------60EF35F471B522E1FA0C3EB2-- from darrell@rockclimbing.org Thu Oct 7 11:05:46 1999 Subject: Re: Nyatex 4 Reelseats? GW Gathering Oct. 29-31 Hi David, Hope you're still planning to attend the Bishop Gathering 10/29-10/31... Ifso, we'll see you there... You're probably better off with a 5 min. epoxy, which can often be removedwith heat in the event of a repair or adjustment. Like a earlier post, whywait so long... and you don't want a permanent bond necessarily. With all the recent interest in silk lines... I'll see if I can dig one ortwo more up and if so, I'll bring them to the gathering... I know I'm out ofthe DT lines but I might have a used level line around. There's also a page on reconditioning silk fly lines on my site at the URLbelow in case others are interested. My two cents... Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com -----Original Message----- Subject: Nyatex 4 Reelseats? Rodmakers, Anyone ever use nyatex for glueing on reelseats? David KashubaFair Oaks CA ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from DNHayashida@aol.com Thu Oct 7 11:13:39 1999 Subject: Re: Level Silk Lines Come on guys, WHY are you so partial to silk ? Is it the casting ? It's sort of like the question "Why do you like using a bamboo fly rod?" It is the casting, it's the feel of the line, for me a big plus is a silk linedoesn't stretch like a plastic line, so hook sets and fighting the fishhas more "feel". A silk line requires more care, has to be dressedmore often, so it slows down the pace of fishing, which gives memore time to look around and appreciate my surroundings. A plastic line is "better" than silk like a graphite rod is "better" thancane. Darryl from darrell@rockclimbing.org Thu Oct 7 11:52:54 1999 Subject: New or Used silk lines are not too expensive compared to the olddays... boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0080_01BF10A9.B5D7CF00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0080_01BF10A9.B5D7CF00 Just pulled out my old Edw. K. Tryon Co. Philadelphia, PA catalog... =they were the tackle house that marketed the Jay Harvey brand of rods =made by Heddon and looked up the silk fly lines... For the top grade of =DT silk fly line, you could spend $10 or more in 1941... To put it in =retrospect, you could buy a Heddon #10 grade Jay Harvey 7.5' 2/2 =(Featherweight) for $15.00!!! So by today's prices, the silk lines are =pretty cheap as that rod in excellent used condition would go for about =$600 and mint over $1,000. Guess it takes a lot of worms to make that =line... Regards, Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com ------=_NextPart_000_0080_01BF10A9.B5D7CF00 Just pulled= K. Tryon Co. Philadelphia, PA catalog... they were the tackle house that = marketed the Jay Harvey brand of rods made by Heddon and looked up the = lines... For the top grade of DT silk fly line, you could spend $10 or = 1941... To put it in retrospect, you could buy a Heddon #10 grade Jay = 7.5' 2/2 (Featherweight) for $15.00!!! So by today's prices, the silk = pretty cheap as that rod in excellent used condition would go for about = line... Regards, Darrell =Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com ------=_NextPart_000_0080_01BF10A9.B5D7CF00-- from flytyr@southshore.com Thu Oct 7 13:17:04 1999 Subject: Re: Silk fly lines When cleaning out my stuff before moving I started to throw away acouple ofold gummy silk lines still sealed in packages. I had them over 45 years. Iguess I will have to go through some stuff I have stored away and dig themout.I had better look at some of the flea market reels also.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com channer wrote: At 11:30 AM 10/06/1999 +0000, Chris Wohlford wrote: Reed;I totally agree, the article was great.Chris;I built a Payne 98, 7' 4 wt. and I like it a lot better with a level 3 silkline I found at a junk shop than the modern 4 dt i have.Anybody have a 4 or 5 dt silk that they don't want anymore, any conditionwill do as long as it is restorable?John from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Oct 7 15:14:56 1999 13:16:18 PDT Subject: Silk line designations It sounds like some of you know the diameters associated with particular line wts for silk lines. Is this information on the web or could someone help me identify a silk line wt. based on diameters if I measure it? I have a couple of lines I would like to know more about. I cast one with the Heddon 8 1/2' 2f #17 I talked about earlier and it felt clearly too light for this rod. This line was found with a pretty small reel so I suspect it is a lighter wt. By looking at it, it looks like a double taper,but I havn't miced it. E-mail me if you know the measurements for some silk lines. Thanks. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Oct 7 16:12:22 1999 Subject: laps the laps described would not work that great on nickel silver.Laps should have a softer surface than the the material you intend toremove. The abrasive particles embed into the softer metal during thelapping process and wear away at the harder material. If the lap isharder than the the material the action will be reversed.If a cast iron lap is used on a nickel silver ferrule the abrasive will'stick' to the ferrule and wear the lap (more or less) making theferrule very abrasive. Even after cleaning there will be particles ofabrasive embedded in the ferrule that will wear the mating ferrule veryquickly.Copper or aluminium would be my choice but I find that a piece of wetand dry carefully wrapped around a file and a good micrometer to workok, providing the female has not been reamed bell mouthed or theopposite!Terry from noblur@stic.net Thu Oct 7 16:53:20 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0- 60503U15500L11000S0V35)with SMTP id net; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 16:53:16 - 0500 Subject: Re: laps boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0044_01BF10E4.F8030A80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01BF10E4.F8030A80 I don't want to seem contentious, but I've been doing this (lapping) = stay, and just keep cutting. This requires a strong ultra-sonic cleaner, =to remove all the particles. My main use of these laps, is for pistons in 2-cycle engines that can =run for hours at over 25,000 rpm ! German, or Nickel Silver, is really =mostly brass, i.e. copper zinc, tin, and 14% to 19% nickel. Compared to =iron, it is not porous at all. Because brass is a fairly soft material, =course abrasives are not needed. This is why I advised 2000 grit, =minimum, to start with. How you charge the lap, is another detail I =haven't addressed yet. It starts with about a pin head's worth of =compound ! I'll get into the cleaning of female ferrules later, but a good .45 =cartridge case brush, is a good start for cleaning them. I prefer the =type with plastic bristles. I'm doing some sketches now, and will blank out some ferrules in plain =brass to test the design. I think I've come up with a way to make water =proof ferrules, that require no soldering, and are all one piece. I've =been looking for any details on how the serrations are done, and that =end prepared. Once I get it worked out, I'll share it with any that are =interested. I've ordered several books, but if anyone knows of a book, with details =on making ferrules, I'd appreciate hearing from them. Thanks, GMA Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 4:15 PMSubject: laps the laps described would not work that great on nickel silver.Laps should have a softer surface than the the material you intend toremove. The abrasive particles embed into the softer metal during thelapping process and wear away at the harder material. If the lap isharder than the the material the action will be reversed.If a cast iron lap is used on a nickel silver ferrule the abrasive =will'stick' to the ferrule and wear the lap (more or less) making theferrule very abrasive. Even after cleaning there will be particles ofabrasive embedded in the ferrule that will wear the mating ferrule =veryquickly.Copper or aluminium would be my choice but I find that a piece of wetand dry carefully wrapped around a file and a good micrometer to workok, providing the female has not been reamed bell mouthed or theopposite!Terry ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01BF10E4.F8030A80 = (lapping) for over 40 years, and diamond compound is the only one that = stay, and just keep cutting. This requires a strong ultra-sonic cleaner, = remove all the particles. My main use of these laps, is for pistons in 2-cycle = can run for hours at over 25,000 rpm ! German, or Nickel Silver, is = mostly brass, i.e. copper zinc, tin, and 14% to 19% nickel. Compared to = is not porous at all. Because brass is a fairly soft material, course = are not needed. This is why I advised 2000 grit, minimum, to start with. = charge the lap, is another detail I haven't addressed yet. It starts = a pin head's worth of compound ! I'll get into the cleaning of female ferrules later, but a = cartridge case brush, is a good start for cleaning them. I prefer the = plastic bristles. I'm doing some sketches now, and will blank out some = plain brass to test the design. I think I've come up with a way to make = proof ferrules, that require no soldering, and are all one piece. I've = looking for any details on how the serrations are done, and that end = interested. I've ordered several books, but if anyone knows of a book, = details on making ferrules, I'd appreciate hearing from =them. Thanks, GMA ----- Original Message ----- ACKLAND = Sent: Thursday, October 07, = PMSubject: lapsthe laps described would not work that great on silver.Laps should have a softer surface than the the material you = toremove. The abrasive particles embed into the softer metal = thelapping process and wear away at the harder material. If the = isharder than the the material the action will be reversed.If = iron lap is used on a nickel silver ferrule the abrasive = the ferrule and wear the lap (more or less) making theferrule very = abrasive. Even after cleaning there will be particles ofabrasive = in the ferrule that will wear the mating ferrule = aluminium would be my choice but I find that a piece of wetand dry = carefully wrapped around a file and a good micrometer to workok, = theopposite!Terry ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01BF10E4.F8030A80-- from noblur@stic.net Thu Oct 7 17:09:23 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0- 60503U15500L11000S0V35)with SMTP id net; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 17:09:18 - 0500 Subject: Re: Silk line designations boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0081_01BF10E7.354A1300" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0081_01BF10E7.354A1300 Someone must have these charts still, as they were common back in the =1950's. There were weight designations, based on silk, for all the =sizes, from about "F", on up, as I recall. If I'm not going "bonkers", =there was also a reference to the new weights and sizes in Nylon lines =too. GMA Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 3:11 PMSubject: Silk line designations It sounds like some of you know the diameters associated with = line wts for silk lines. Is this information on the web or could = help me identify a silk line wt. based on diameters if I measure it? = have a couple of lines I would like to know more about. I cast one = the Heddon 8 1/2' 2f #17 I talked about earlier and it felt clearly = light for this rod. This line was found with a pretty small reel so I = suspect it is a lighter wt. By looking at it, it looks like a double =taper,but I havn't miced it. E-mail me if you know the measurements for = silk lines. Thanks. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu ------=_NextPart_000_0081_01BF10E7.354A1300 Someone must have these charts still, as they werecommon = the 1950's. There were weight designations, based on silk, for all the = from about "F", on up, as I recall. If I'm not going "bonkers", there = reference to the new weights and sizes in Nylon lines =too. GMA ----- Original Message ----- MCDOWELL = Sent: Thursday, October 07, = PMSubject: Silk line =designationsIt sounds like some of you know the diameters = or could someone help me identify a silk line wt. based on = was found with a pretty small reel so I suspect it is a lighter = lines. Thanks.Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu ------=_NextPart_000_0081_01BF10E7.354A1300-- from hartzell@easystreet.com Thu Oct 7 17:17:24 1999 Subject: silk lines I understand that some lines were made from nylon or other plastic thatlooked just like silk. Is this true and if so, can anyone tell me howto identify thetrue silk ones without tearing them apart?Ed Hartzell from noblur@stic.net Thu Oct 7 17:25:27 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0- 60503U15500L11000S0V35)with SMTP id net for ;Thu, 7 Oct 1999 17:25:23 -0500 Subject: Fw: Laps boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0036_01BF10E9.74671400" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BF10E9.74671400 Thanks to Olaf Borge, here's the address and phone number of the lap =company. More to come, when I get a catalog. GMA Subject: RE: Laps George,I looked in Switchboard Helical Lap Co7500 Helro Dr.Fraser, MI 48026-2214 Phone: (810)293-6900 -----Original Message----- Subject: Laps Well guys, much to my dismay, I've lost my lapping company ! That, or =thearea code has changed to something Ma Bell doesn't know about ! The company is/was Helical Lap Co. in the Detroit area. The A.C was 313. =Iwill now get on the web, and try to find some other sources. Most my lapinserts are for larger sizes, than most ferrules, and I need to get =smallersizes of them. I'm not positive, but the best machine tool supplier I have found isTraver's Tool, in Flushing, N.Y.. I'll report back shortly on the blind =holelaps too. GMA ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BF10E9.74671400 Thanks to Olaf Borge, here's the address and phone number = lap company. More to come, when I get a catalog. GMA From:Borge, = Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 5:01 AMSubject: RE: Laps = of = much to my dismay, I've lost my lapping company ! That, or thearea = is/was Helical Lap Co. in the Detroit area. The A.C was 313. Iwill = on the web, and try to find some other sources. Most my lapinserts = found isTraver's Tool, in Flushing, N.Y.. I'll report back shortly = ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BF10E9.74671400-- from bob@downandacross.com Thu Oct 7 19:07:40 1999 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: Impregnation of cane boundary="=====================_1118832==_.ALT" --=====================_1118832==_.ALT HI Mark,I think the Dick Spurr book Wes Jordan-Profile of a Rodmaker is an interesting read. It talks about the process. It is available from Centennial Publications.Bob At 03:17 PM 10/7/99 +0100, you wrote:Hello everybody,I've been shadowing the list for some time and would be curious to hear peoples opinions on impregnation of bamboo rods.Have list members tried the process and if so with what results? Are there any sites/archives that people might suggest for informationabout Wes Jordan and his tapers? Gosh - so many questions and so little time...........I'll look forward to reading any comments about varnish finishing Vs impregnation - with many thanks in advance.Tight lines,Mark(yes I know - the ID is in my wifes name!) Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com --=====================_1118832==_.ALT HI Mark, is an interesting read. It talks about the process. It is available fromCentennial Publications. Bob At 03:17 PM 10/7/99 +0100, you wrote:Helloeverybody, be curious to hear peoples opinions on impregnation of bamboorods. suggest for information about Wes Jordan and his tapers? Gosh - so manyquestions and so little time...........I'll look forward to reading anycomments about varnish finishing Vs impregnation - with many thanks inadvance. Tight lines,Mark(yes I know - the ID is in my wifesname!)Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com --=====================_1118832==_.ALT-- from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Oct 7 19:08:09 1999 mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net(InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:32:58 +0000 "hartzell@easystreet.com" Subject: Re: silk lines Ed The definitive test is to put a match to the end of the line - Plasticwill mellt and ball up. Silk will smell like burnt hair and turn to ashes.You waste less than 0.25" of line. Chris On Thu, 07 Oct 1999 15:26:19 -0700, Ed Hartzell wrote: I understand that some lines were made from nylon or other plastic thatlooked just like silk. Is this true and if so, can anyone tell me howto identify thetrue silk ones without tearing them apart?Ed Hartzell from darrell@rockclimbing.org Thu Oct 7 19:08:28 1999 "Rod Makers" Subject: Re: silk lines I've been actively looking and buying them for 6-8 months and I averageabout 1-2 per month. Not a very good number... It's just luck... when you goto the flea markets, look for those old beatup reels and sometimes youfindthe silk on the reel... I always buy the reels so the sellers don't suspectthat the lines are often more valuable than the reels, you never know...they might have an old pile of reels at home and if you tip them off, thenext flea market the lines will be $20-100 with a cute little tag... most ofthe time it's dumb luck and an awareness that I want them... Darrell-----Original Message----- Subject: silk lines is it easy to find silk lines at any old flea market? are there thatmany around. i read you page on reconditioning and it soundinteresting. i would definitely like to cast silk on cane. do you haveany suggestions to get started finding lines?thanks- matt from bob@downandacross.com Thu Oct 7 19:10:13 1999 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: silk lines and ebay auction posting HI Reed:Great article by the way. How will you construct the tapered lines. Are you going to splice them together? Could you give the list an idea about the tapers/ formula and how to splice them? Sounds like a great idea.Thanks,Bob At 09:20 PM 10/6/99 -0400, you wrote:Bob,I agree, $15 is my max for level silk lines in brand new condition. I havecollected them in all sizes and will, DV, make some tapered lines fromthemthis winter. Marvin Hedge used to be able to construct tapers for eachrod/distance in a few hours; surely I can do it in a few months.Best regards,Reed bob maulucci wrote: Just a tip following the eBay silk line posting. That price for a levelline in any condition is not worth it. It was up to $122.50 when Ichecked.Level lines aren't as bad as Gierach's book makes them out, but they arenot $100+ good! I just got an Ocean City no. 35 reel with a great line 5wt. level line for$15 at a flea market. He was stunned when I smiled and did not haggleonebit. Afetr I told him, "I would have paid that for the line" I felt like anass for gloating. The guy thought I wanted the reel. Most dealers figurethe line is crapola. Very often they are usable with a bit ofreconditioning. The archives have a lot on that. I have had better luck on eBay with checking the reel section andinquiringabout a line that may be left on it. I have just recieved a couple oflines from eBay this way. Search through the picture postings and buy thatcheapautomatic reel if it has a silk line. Most sellers can at least tell youthat it is silk (cloth) and not plastic. If it's a smaller diameter reel,it will most likely be a usable trout line. Most production reels gorathercheaply there. Just my 2 cents.All the best,Bob M.Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com from anglport@con2.com Thu Oct 7 19:28:48 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A8C757C00E6; Thu, 07 Oct 1999 19:12:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Silk line designations All,I didn't think I recalled ever seeing it in any of my books but you guystook so long to settle it, I decided to go look for it! 8^) (My library isright next to my computer!)In the Wise Fishermen's Encyclopedia (1952), there is a way to makeamultiweight flyline from sections and several diameters are given. Itdoesn't specifically say it's silk but I think everything was keyed to thatat that time. Anyway, it cites AA as .065, A as .060, E as .050 and H as.025; I think you'll see if you list the intermediate values that it drops.005 per letter-size through that range.Have fun!Art At 05:13 PM 10/07/1999 -0500, george M. Aldrich wrote:Someone must have these charts still, as they were common back in the1950's. There were weight designations, based on silk, for all the sizes, from about "F", on up, as I recall. If I'm not going "bonkers", there wasalso a reference to the new weights and sizes in Nylon lines too. GMA RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 3:11 PM Subject: Silk line designations It sounds like some of you know the diameters associated with particular Is this information on the web or could someone I I cast one with #17 I talked about earlier and it felt clearly too This line was found with a pretty small reel so I E-mail me if you know the measurements for some silk lines. Thanks. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Thu Oct 7 19:36:21 1999 Subject: Planing forms Hi, As the temps tonight are predicted to go below freezing tonight I guessit'stime to get serious about the winter projects. One of which is a bamboorod.The biggest problem I have at the moment is a lack of a planning form.Doesanyone have one they are thinking of selling to fund their fly fishing habitor just don't use anymore? Paul from noblur@stic.net Thu Oct 7 19:52:50 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0- 60503U15500L11000S0V35)with SMTP id net; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 19:52:45 - 0500 Subject: Re: Planing forms boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01BF10FE.0B03CFC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BF10FE.0B03CFC0 I'm in that class too, although it'll be in the high 80's here tomorrow =! I kick myself every time I think about the planning forms Herter's =used to sell, so cheap ! GMA Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 7:28 PM Hi, As the temps tonight are predicted to go below freezing tonight I =guess it'stime to get serious about the winter projects. One of which is a =bamboo rod.The biggest problem I have at the moment is a lack of a planning form. =Doesanyone have one they are thinking of selling to fund their fly fishing =habitor just don't use anymore? Paul ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BF10FE.0B03CFC0 I'm in that class too, although it'll be in the high 80's = Herter's used to sell, so cheap ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- = Sent: Thursday, October 07, = PMSubject: Planing forms Hi,As the temps tonight are predicted to go = projects. One of which is a bamboo rod.The biggest problem I have = moment is a lack of a planning form. Doesanyone have one they are = anymore?Paul ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BF10FE.0B03CFC0-- from jczimny@dol.net Thu Oct 7 20:22:20 1999 Subject: Re: silk lines Hi Ed,Burn a little piece of it. If it smells like burnt flesh then it's silk. Anacrid chemical smell means it's synthetic.John Z Ed Hartzell wrote: I understand that some lines were made from nylon or other plastic thatlooked just like silk. Is this true and if so, can anyone tell me howto identify thetrue silk ones without tearing them apart?Ed Hartzell from rcurry@ttlc.net Thu Oct 7 20:32:41 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id AA84D68800FA; Thu, 07 Oct 1999 21:36:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Silk line designations boundary="------------F1C447472160DD69F4A6841C" --------------F1C447472160DD69F4A6841C George,If you want weight designations for the silk lines, they areextremely variable. J.A. Knight compiled a list of specific gravities ofvarious lines, both oiled silk and oiled nylon. The list is interestingin its range. Two obvious varaiables are: 1/ type of varnish, and 2/tightness of braid.The diameter designations run from "I" at .020" up to "AAA", in.005" increments.I've found that some "H" level lines are perfect on a 2wt., and at.025" its a lot more delicate presentation than a standard DT2 in PVCwhich would be .035" at the tip, and probably .045" in the belly.A.J. MacLane in "The Practical Fly Fisherman" gives a table of thetapers of various silk lines, for those who, like me, might want toconstruct their own WF lines. I've been able to get a few WF silks inlarger diameters, but they are hard to find in the light lines. Theywere made, though, right down to the equivalent of WF2. Veryyyydelicate.Best regards,Reed "george M. Aldrich" wrote: Someone must have these charts still, as they were common back in the1950's. There were weight designations, based on silk, for all thesizes, from about "F", on up, as I recall. If I'm not going "bonkers",there was also a reference to the new weights and sizes in Nylon linestoo. GMA --------------F1C447472160DD69F4A6841C George, they are extremely variable. J.A. Knight compiled a list of specificgravitiesof various lines, both oiled silk and oiled nylon. The list is interestingin its range. Two obvious varaiables are: 1/ type of varnish, and 2/tightnessof braid. up to "AAA", in .005" increments. on a 2wt., and at .025" its a lot more delicate presentation than a standardDT2 in PVC which would be .035" at the tip, and probably .045" in the belly. givesa table of the tapers of various silk lines, for those who, like me, mightwant to construct their own WF lines. I've been able to get a few WF silksin larger diameters, but they are hard to find in the light lines. Theywere made, though, right down to the equivalent of WF2. Veryyyy delicate.Best regards,Reed"george M. Aldrich" wrote: Someone must have these chartsstill, as they were common back in the 1950's. There were weightdesignations,based on silk, for all the sizes, from about "F", on up, as I recall. IfI'm not going "bonkers", there was also a reference to the new weights --------------F1C447472160DD69F4A6841C-- from noblur@stic.net Thu Oct 7 20:37:16 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0- 60503U15500L11000S0V35)with SMTP id net; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:37:09 - 0500 ,"Art Port" Subject: Re: Silk line designations boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0021_01BF1104.3ED12AE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BF1104.3ED12AE0 I knew I had seen this, just not where or what it was from. I've also seen articles on how to build your own tapered lines. This =involved splicing the cores, and wrapping, and whip finishing. With =today's new adhesives, this should be even easier to do. I think the old =way, was to use varnish to seal the wraps. GMA Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 6:16 PMSubject: Re: Silk line designations All,I didn't think I recalled ever seeing it in any of my books but you =guystook so long to settle it, I decided to go look for it! 8^) (My =library isright next to my computer!)In the Wise Fishermen's Encyclopedia (1952), there is a way to make amultiweight flyline from sections and several diameters are given. Itdoesn't specifically say it's silk but I think everything was keyed to =thatat that time. Anyway, it cites AA as .065, A as .060, E as .050 and H =as.025; I think you'll see if you list the intermediate values that it =drops.005 per letter-size through that range.Have fun!Art At 05:13 PM 10/07/1999 -0500, george M. Aldrich wrote:Someone must have these charts still, as they were common back in =the1950's. There were weight designations, based on silk, for all the = from about "F", on up, as I recall. If I'm not going "bonkers", there =wasalso a reference to the new weights and sizes in Nylon lines too. = ----- Original Message ----- From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL = RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 3:11 = It sounds like some of you know the diameters associated with = silk lines. Thanks. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BF1104.3ED12AE0 from. I've also seen articles on how to build your own tapered = This involved splicing the cores, and wrapping, and whip finishing. With = new adhesives, this should be even easier to do. I think the old way, = varnish to seal the wraps. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Art =Port Sent: Thursday, October 07, = PMSubject: Re: Silk line =designationsAll,I didn't think I recalled ever seeing it in any = books but you guystook so long to settle it, I decided to go look = Fishermen's Encyclopedia (1952), there is a way to make = specifically say it's silk but I think everything was keyed to = time. Anyway, it cites AA as .065, A as .060, E as .050 and H = think you'll see if you list the intermediate values that it = letter-size through that range.Have fun!ArtAt = Someone = There were weight designations, based on silk, for all the sizes, = = ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BF1104.3ED12AE0-- from rcurry@ttlc.net Thu Oct 7 20:44:01 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id AD40317E0134; Thu, 07 Oct 1999 21:47:44 -0400 Subject: Re: silk lines and ebay auction posting Bob,I just got to your post. Thanks for the praise.There are lists of line tapers, I have some from Cortland and SA, but agreatlist is in McLane's "The Practical Fly Fisherman".Many of the pre-nylon writers gave directions on splicing. Seldom didtheyconflict (how strange...). Basically, you use a blunt darning needle (notsharp)and pick apart the end of the line back about 3/4". Separate it into 3 (somesaytwo) equal points with some dubbing wax. Do the same to the other piece.Overlap(points mating within points) the two pieces of line, but do not force themtogether, leave 1/8" gap. Start winding in the middle with some 3/0 silkto oneend, then back to the other, then, to the middle... whip finish. Coat withvarnishand roll on a flat surface while still sticky. Recoat and let dry.I think that summarizes some from a dozen different writers. I've yetto try itbut I have little doubt that it works, since I own a line made that way. : )Best regards,Reed bob maulucci wrote: HI Reed:Great article by the way. How will you construct the tapered lines. Areyougoing to splice them together? Could you give the list an idea about thetapers/ formula and how to splice them? Sounds like a great idea.Thanks,Bob from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Thu Oct 7 21:35:30 1999 mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net(InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: Silk line designations Scientific Anglers put out a lot of them...they also had a chart thatlisted a ziooion rods of the day with the appropriate line weight for thespecific rod in the new AFTMA "standard" measurement..I remember an old SA rep who said theycasthundres of rods (out in the snow, in Michigan) to make some of thosecharts. See Schwieberts "Trout" for a comparitive scale of flyline sizes, weightingrains to silk diameter designations.. as an example:5wt 140 grains Silk DT HEH Silk WF HEG In my limited experience, the closest of the contemporary lines to the feeland performance of silk are the SA XPS (2 silk lines cast on a 5- 6different rods, same rods cast with various Cortland and SA lines + 2intermediates. 3 people casting....all lawn cast, but done in rotation)The old Orvis intermediates used to be made in a DT in lighter weights andthey were an amber color similiar to silk...intermediates in general handlealot like silk IMHO, probably due to finer diameters than contemporaryfloaters. At 05:13 PM 10/7/99 -0500, you wrote:Someone must have these charts still, as they were common back in the1950's. There were weight designations, based on silk, for all the sizes, from about "F", on up, as I recall. If I'm not going "bonkers", there wasalso a reference to the new weights and sizes in Nylon lines too. Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from channer@hubwest.com Thu Oct 7 21:39:00 1999 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A9B93F40264; Thu, 07 Oct 1999 20:40:57 MST "RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: silk lines At 03:26 PM 10/07/1999 -0700, Ed Hartzell wrote:I understand that some lines were made from nylon or other plastic thatlooked just like silk. Is this true and if so, can anyone tell me howto identify thetrue silk ones without tearing them apart?Ed Hartzell Ed;Just light a match to the end of the line, if it burns, it is silk, if itmelts, then it is nylon.John from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Thu Oct 7 22:13:01 1999 (5.5.2448.0) Subject: Silk lines Hi all,thanks to all the people who responded to the original questionabout how to make one's own silk lines. This whole idea started because,unfortunately, here in Oz, second hand silk lines are unheard of and theprice of a new one makes my head spin.Reed's article is great and I'm looking forward to getting my handson some of the other recommended reading. In the meantime I've got tofindsome way to save Tony and Ian (of redback and funnel web spider fame)fromdrifting out to meet me on the lunatic fringe. Cheers Mike from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Oct 7 22:31:47 1999 Subject: Re: laps boundary="------------7D7B51532D63C916FC9E2D92" --------------7D7B51532D63C916FC9E2D92 I guess if you are prepared to invest in an ultrasonic cleaner and avariety of laps and diamond compound you could replace a strip ofemery.Remember, most work out of their basement (if they are lucky) and do notreally want to invest too much.Terry "george M. Aldrich" wrote: I don't want to seem contentious, but I've been doing this (lapping) stay, and just keep cutting. This requires a strong ultra-soniccleaner, to remove all the particles. My main use of these laps, is rpm ! German, or Nickel Silver, is really mostly brass, i.e. copperzinc, tin, and 14% to 19% nickel. Compared to iron, it is not porousat all. Because brass is a fairly soft material, course abrasives arenot needed. This is why I advised 2000 grit, minimum, to start with.How you charge the lap, is another detail I haven't addressed yet. Itstarts with about a pin head's worth of compound ! I'll get into thecleaning of female ferrules later, but a good .45 cartridge casebrush, is a good start for cleaning them. I prefer the type withplastic bristles. I'm doing some sketches now, and will blank out someferrules in plain brass to test the design. I think I've come up witha way to make water proof ferrules, that require no soldering, and areall one piece. I've been looking for any details on how the serrationsare done, and that end prepared. Once I get it worked out, I'll shareit with any that are interested. I've ordered several books, but ifanyone knows of a book, with details on making ferrules, I'dappreciate hearing from them. Thanks, GMA ----- Original Message -----From: TERENCE ACKLAND Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 4:15 PMSubject: lapsthe laps described would not work that great on nickelsilver.Laps should have a softer surface than the the material youintend toremove. The abrasive particles embed into the softer metalduring thelapping process and wear away at the harder material. If thelap isharder than the the material the action will be reversed.If a cast iron lap is used on a nickel silver ferrule theabrasive will'stick' to the ferrule and wear the lap (more or less)making theferrule very abrasive. Even after cleaning there will beparticles ofabrasive embedded in the ferrule that will wear the matingferrule veryquickly.Copper or aluminium would be my choice but I find that apiece of wetand dry carefully wrapped around a file and a goodmicrometer to workok, providing the female has not been reamed bell mouthed ortheopposite!Terry --------------7D7B51532D63C916FC9E2D92 I guess if you are prepared to invest in an ultrasonic cleaner and a variety Remember, most work out of their basement (if they are lucky) and donot really want to invest too much.Terry "george M. Aldrich" wrote: but I've been doing this (lapping) for over 40 years, and diamond compoundis the only one that tends to stay, and just keep cutting. This requires main use of these laps, is for pistons in 2-cycle engines that can run brass, i.e. copper zinc, tin, and 14% to 19% nickel. Compared to iron,it is not porous at all. Because brass is a fairly soft material, courseabrasives are not needed. This is why I advised 2000 grit, minimum, tostart with. How you charge the lap, is another detail I haven't addressed get into the cleaning of female ferrules later, but a good .45 cartridgecase brush, is a good start for cleaning them. I prefer the type withplastic someferrules in plain brass to test the design. I think I've come up with away to make water proof ferrules, that require no soldering, and are allone piece. I've been looking for any details on how the serrations aredone, and that end prepared. Once I get it worked out, I'll share it with anyone knows of a book, with details on making ferrules, I'd appreciate ----- Original Message ----- From:TERENCEACKLAND Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 4:15PM Subject: laps Laps should have a softer surface than the the material you intendtoremove. The abrasive particles embed into the softer metal during thelapping process and wear away at the harder material. If the lap isharder than the the material the action will be reversed.If a cast iron lap is used on a nickel silver ferrule the abrasivewill'stick' to the ferrule and wear the lap (more or less) making theferrule very abrasive. Even after cleaning there will be particlesofabrasive embedded in the ferrule that will wear the mating ferruleveryquickly.Copper or aluminium would be my choice but I find that a piece of wetand dry carefully wrapped around a file and a good micrometer to workok, providing the female has not been reamed bell mouthed or theopposite!Terry --------------7D7B51532D63C916FC9E2D92-- from rafick@fwi.com Thu Oct 7 23:08:25 1999 Subject: silk lines This is taken from Ray Bergman's Trout, There is a fair amount ofinformation on silk and nylon lines available here. I-----------------.022 + - 1 1/2 thou.H----------------.025 + - 1 1/2 thou.G------ ----------.030 + - 1 1/2 thou.F----------------.035 + - 2 1/2 thouE---------------- .040 " "D----------------.045 " "C----------------.050 " "B-------------- --.055 " "A----------------.060 " " R.A.Fick Bamboo Rod Co.The best rods are being made today.www.angelfire.com/in2/rafickrods/ from rafick@fwi.com Thu Oct 7 23:21:28 1999 Subject: Trout / silk & nylon lines And this rod nylon silk 8'-4oz HDH or HEH HEH8.5'41/2oz HDH HEH8.5'5oz HCH HDH9'5-5.5OZ HCH HDH9'6oz GBG HCH R.A.Fick Bamboo Rod Co.The best rods are being made today.www.angelfire.com/in2/rafickrods/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Oct 8 00:19:22 1999 Fri, 8 Oct 1999 13:19:07 +0800 Subject: Re: Silk lines I think we've all thrown a wheel weight some where along the way to evenbeon this list, and you need to be something of a social leper to have thetime to actually make rods but you sir, are a mennace ;-)Interested in another magical mystery tour to Tim's on the weekend? Tony At 11:19 AM 10/8/99 +0800, Roberts, Michael wrote:Hi all,thanks to all the people who responded to the original questionabout how to make one's own silk lines. This whole idea started because,unfortunately, here in Oz, second hand silk lines are unheard of and theprice of a new one makes my head spin.Reed's article is great and I'm looking forward to getting my handson some of the other recommended reading. In the meantime I've got tofindsome way to save Tony and Ian (of redback and funnel web spider fame)fromdrifting out to meet me on the lunatic fringe. Cheers Mike /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Oct 8 00:35:01 1999 Fri, 8 Oct 1999 13:34:16 +0800 Subject: Re: Silk lines "'RODMAKERS'" Sorry,this was a prive message that escaped. Tony At 01:26 PM 10/8/99 +0800, Tony Young wrote:I think we've all thrown a wheel weight some where along the way toeven beon this list, and you need to be something of a social leper to have thetime to actually make rods but you sir, are a mennace ;-)Interested in another magical mystery tour to Tim's on the weekend? Tony At 11:19 AM 10/8/99 +0800, Roberts, Michael wrote:Hi all,thanks to all the people who responded to the original questionabout how to make one's own silk lines. This whole idea startedbecause,unfortunately, here in Oz, second hand silk lines are unheard of and theprice of a new one makes my head spin.Reed's article is great and I'm looking forward to getting my handson some of the other recommended reading. In the meantime I've got tofindsome way to save Tony and Ian (of redback and funnel web spider fame)fromdrifting out to meet me on the lunatic fringe. Cheers Mike /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from rodmaker@becclesworkshop.freeserve.co.uk Fri Oct 8 04:00:241999 helo=default) Subject: Wes Jordan publication boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008A_01BF1173.D8DF7E60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008A_01BF1173.D8DF7E60 Bob - I will be investing in that book. I shall also have a look in the =archives as suggested by Bill. As there seems to be a slight problem with the taper archive on the =rodmakers site can anyone point me in the right direction for Jordan = Cheers,Mark ------=_NextPart_000_008A_01BF1173.D8DF7E60 Thanks to all whohave = advice Bob - I will be = Bill. As there seems tobe a = problem with the taper archive on the rodmakers site can anyone point me= Cheers,Mark ------=_NextPart_000_008A_01BF1173.D8DF7E60-- from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Fri Oct 8 08:27:59 1999 Subject: RE: laps I agree with Terry. This is the kind of thing that just scares people off,like reading Garrison and thinking, "Do I need an engineering degree to dothis?" You can spend an hour at the kitchen table with a bitty piece ofsandpaper folded in two over the male ferrule, and if you're careful andpatient - check the fit every thirty seconds or so - you can get greatresults. That's what craftsmanship is all about, which is what cane rodsare all about. -----Original Message-----From: TERENCE ACKLAND [SMTP:hexagon@odyssee.net]Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 11:35 PM Cc: RodmakersSubject: Re: laps I guess if you are prepared to invest in an ultrasonic cleaner and avariety of laps and diamond compound you could replace a strip ofemery. Remember, most work out of their basement (if they are lucky) and donotreally want to invest too much. Terry "george M. Aldrich" wrote: I don't want to seem contentious, but I've been doing this(lapping) for over 40 years, and diamond compound is the only one thattends to stay, and just keep cutting. This requires a strong ultra-soniccleaner, to remove all the particles. My main use of these laps, is forpistons in 2-cycle engines that can run for hours at over 25,000 rpm !German, or Nickel Silver, is really mostly brass, i.e. copper zinc, tin,and 14% to 19% nickel. Compared to iron, it is not porous at all. Becausebrass is a fairly soft material, course abrasives are not needed. This iswhy I advised 2000 grit, minimum, to start with. How you charge the lap,is another detail I haven't addressed yet. It starts with about a pinhead's worth of compound ! I'll get into the cleaning of female ferruleslater, but a good .45 cartridge case brush, is a good start for cleaningthem. I prefer the type with plastic bristles. I'm doing some sketchesnow, and will blank out some ferrules in plain brass to test the design. Ithink I've come up with a way to make water proof ferrules, that requireno soldering, and are all one piece. I've been looking for any details onhow the serrations are done, and that end prepared. Once I get it workedout, I'll share it with any that are interested. I've ordered severalbooks, but if anyone knows of a book, with details on making ferrules, I'dappreciate hearing from them. Thanks, GMA ----- Original Message -----From: TERENCE ACKLAND Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 4:15 PMSubject: lapsthe laps described would not work that great on nickelsilver. Laps should have a softer surface than the the material youintend to remove. The abrasive particles embed into the softer metalduring the lapping process and wear away at the harder material. If thelap is harder than the the material the action will be reversed. If a cast iron lap is used on a nickel silver ferrule theabrasive will 'stick' to the ferrule and wear the lap (more or less)making the ferrule very abrasive. Even after cleaning there will beparticles of abrasive embedded in the ferrule that will wear the matingferrule very quickly. Copper or aluminium would be my choice but I find that apiece of wet and dry carefully wrapped around a file and a goodmicrometer to work ok, providing the female has not been reamed bell mouthed orthe opposite! Terry from canebuilder@webtv.net Fri Oct 8 08:30:42 1999 1.iap.bryant.webtv.net 131.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with 131.iap.bryant.webtv.net(8.8.8-wtv-d/mt.gso.26Feb98) id GAA00411; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 06:30:38 - ETAsAhRZ5pqwVdzqiX+QrfDMby9Sf3f4HwIUVKR4WaN+hRdRa0xGeFE+ulJPAwA= Subject: Silk Lines An excelent set of tables on silk lines can be found in the excellentbook "Tournament Fly and Bait Casting" by Earl Osten. Pub. 1946 by A.S.Barnes & Co.Every thing is listed in N.A.A.C.C. standards.Line size starts at "I" = .022" thru "5A" = .080.Sizes larger than 5A are specified in thousands of an inch. ie: .085"thru .125".There are also figures showing two different mehods of making splices aswell as line to leader splices.There is also a table showing the formulas for tapered lines. One table making four diameter tapered lines used for distance casting. Severalformulas for different weight rods. It also specifies the allowabletolerances for line diameters.A table for leader material calibrations is also useful. All thru thedifferent casting events they describe the specifications on the rodsused, the reels used and the lines and leaders.It is the most complete description that I have seen in one place. Canebuilder from caneman@clnk.com Fri Oct 8 10:02:47 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:01:40 -0500 Subject: Re: laps OK, I was going to stay out of this one, since I don't generally usemanufactured ferrules but have on the last 4 rods I build since my lathecrashed and burned on me. When I build (or used to build) my own ferrules,I built them to an interference fit, then lapped them at the bench with anArkansas Hard stone. Slow, sure, but I will spend anywhere from 35 to 45hours labor time building a rod, so another hour or so insuring a proper fitis not any significant loss in time for me. Now the manufactured ferrulesIhave been using are not quite an interference fit, so it doesn't take longat all to lap them to a proper "POP". As far an mechanical lappers, I seenothing wrong with them, and they should actually do a much moreaccuratejob than any of us can do with sandpaper or a hard stone, after all, thecutter is a machined peice and is not as susceptable to arbitrarymovementsof the hand as is the paper and stone methods, but I think, at least fornow, I'll stick with my hard stone... besides, it gives me something to doat nite while I am watching TV. Bob Nunley -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: laps I agree with Terry. This is the kind of thing that just scares people off,like reading Garrison and thinking, "Do I need an engineering degree to dothis?" You can spend an hour at the kitchen table with a bitty piece ofsandpaper folded in two over the male ferrule, and if you're careful andpatient - check the fit every thirty seconds or so - you can get greatresults. That's what craftsmanship is all about, which is what cane rodsare all about. -----Original Message-----From: TERENCE ACKLAND [SMTP:hexagon@odyssee.net]Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 11:35 PM Cc: RodmakersSubject: Re: laps I guess if you are prepared to invest in an ultrasonic cleaner and avariety of laps and diamond compound you could replace a strip ofemery.Remember, most work out of their basement (if they are lucky) and donotreally want to invest too much.Terry "george M. Aldrich" wrote: I don't want to seem contentious, but I've been doing this(lapping) for over 40 years, and diamond compound is the only one thattends to stay, and just keep cutting. This requires a strong ultra-soniccleaner, to remove all the particles. My main use of these laps, is forpistons in 2-cycle engines that can run for hours at over 25,000 rpm !German, or Nickel Silver, is really mostly brass, i.e. copper zinc, tin,and 14% to 19% nickel. Compared to iron, it is not porous at all. Becausebrass is a fairly soft material, course abrasives are not needed. This iswhy I advised 2000 grit, minimum, to start with. How you charge thelap,is another detail I haven't addressed yet. It starts with about a pinhead's worth of compound ! I'll get into the cleaning of female ferruleslater, but a good .45 cartridge case brush, is a good start for cleaningthem. I prefer the type with plastic bristles. I'm doing some sketchesnow, and will blank out some ferrules in plain brass to test the design.Ithink I've come up with a way to make water proof ferrules, thatrequireno soldering, and are all one piece. I've been looking for any details onhow the serrations are done, and that end prepared. Once I get it workedout, I'll share it with any that are interested. I've ordered severalbooks, but if anyone knows of a book, with details on making ferrules,I'dappreciate hearing from them. Thanks, GMA ----- Original Message -----From: TERENCE ACKLAND Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 4:15 PMSubject: lapsthe laps described would not work that great on nickelsilver.Laps should have a softer surface than the the material youintend toremove. The abrasive particles embed into the softer metalduring thelapping process and wear away at the harder material. If thelap isharder than the the material the action will be reversed.If a cast iron lap is used on a nickel silver ferrule theabrasive will'stick' to the ferrule and wear the lap (more or less)making theferrule very abrasive. Even after cleaning there will beparticles ofabrasive embedded in the ferrule that will wear the matingferrule veryquickly.Copper or aluminium would be my choice but I find that apiece of wetand dry carefully wrapped around a file and a goodmicrometer to workok, providing the female has not been reamed bell mouthed ortheopposite!Terry from jfoster@gte.net Fri Oct 8 10:14:37 1999 Subject: archives Thanks for the faith...confidence Harry there are still some small glitches but the archives have moved..We all need to thank Chris, who provided the space..anyway... http://www.canerod.com/rodmakers/index.html please replace your old bookmarks let me know what's broke.. regards jerry from jhewitt@cmn.net Fri Oct 8 10:31:38 1999 Subject: Leonard 952 To the list...I've been given an H.L. Leonard 952 for restoration. The customer islooking for some background information, and an estimate of worth forinsurance purposes.On the rod tube is a hand written tag saying: 38 ALM...ROD #952...7', 2pc, 2 3/8 ozThe tube itself is aluminum with a brass cap on one end and a brassscrew off cap on the other end. The bag is a light colored heavymaterial with a dowel sewn into one of the compartments.The rod is a two piece seven footer. both tops are 3 1/2 inchesshort. The reel seat is wood with a nickel silver slide band. The buttcap is nickel silver with H.L Leonard Rod Co. Makers on it. The grip isfive inches in length made of 1/2 in cork rings. The winding check andhook keeper both appear to be brass. The hook keeper is a ring. Thewraps are red silk, there is no tipping, and there are no intermediatewraps. The guide at the ferrule on the butt section has been replaced,the thread here does not match the red silk. The cane itself appears tobe in beautiful condition, as does the varnish.This rod was given to my customer by his uncle who says there's awhole closet full of old rods that his grandfather used to own. Theuncle says Grandpa knew "The guy who built the rods."Any information will be greatly appreciated. Thanks,John Hewitt from darrell@rockclimbing.org Fri Oct 8 11:03:23 1999 Subject: Need sources for wire for snake guides boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0043_01BF116B.F4A218E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01BF116B.F4A218E0 Hi all, I'd like to get the info on some suppliers for nickel silver wire and = thanks! Regards, Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01BF116B.F4A218E0 Hi =all, I'd like to get the info on = tungsten steel, etc. thanks! Regards, Darrell =Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01BF116B.F4A218E0-- from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Fri Oct 8 11:06:10 1999 with ESMTP id ;Fri, 8 Oct 1999 16:05:33 +0000 Subject: Re: archives Thanks, Jerry! You've made a lot of addicts very happy! Dennis Jerry Foster wrote: Thanks for the faith...confidence Harry there are still some small glitches but the archives have moved..We all need to thank Chris, who provided the space..anyway... http://www.canerod.com/rodmakers/index.html please replace your old bookmarks let me know what's broke.. regards jerry from gholland@navsys.com Fri Oct 8 11:28:02 1999 Rod Makers Subject: RE: archives Thanks for the hard work, Jerry. It seems to be working great! Greg Holland -----Original Message----- Subject: archives Thanks for the faith...confidence Harry there are still some small glitches but the archives have moved..We all need to thank Chris, who provided the space..anyway... http://www.canerod.com/rodmakers/index.html please replace your old bookmarks let me know what's broke.. regards jerry from can@telusplanet.net Fri Oct 8 11:47:51 1999 telusplanet.net") by smtp1.telusplanet.net with ESMTP Subject: Re: archives I for one missed them, invaluable source of info, thanks Jerry & Chris.CheersCraig from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Oct 8 11:49:17 1999 Subject: Nyatex vs. Epon Friends,I'm out of glue, and so far have worked only with Nyatex. Ihear good things about the Epon, and am considering changing. Can anyof you tell me what advantage there is to working with Epon vs.workingwith Nyatex. Unless there is a good reason to change, I'll stickwiththe "devil I know" Harry from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Oct 8 12:26:47 1999 Sat, 9 Oct 1999 01:26:28 +0800 Subject: Re: Need sources for wire for snake guides types="text/plain,text/html";boundary="=====================_53431047==_.ALT" --=====================_53431047==_.ALT Ger NS wire from a jewlery suppliers. It's soft so you may find it wears abitquick.SS and tungsten I don't know. Interesting thing I found today was titaniumwire, too thick for snakes, too dear too but you can buy 25mm rod for only$388a meter! Somebody actually wants me to machine a salt water reel seatfromthis stuff. Some people just have too much money.Anybody want a titanium reel seat? Actually it looks nice in a grey sort ofway. Tony At 09:03 AM 10/8/99 -0700, Darrell Lee wrote: Hi all, I'd like to get the info on some suppliers for nickel silver wire and forsnake guide material i.e. stainless steel, tungsten steel, etc. thanks! Regards, Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_53431047==_.ALT Ger NS wire from a jewlery suppliers. It's soft so you may find it wearsa bit quick.SS and tungsten I don't know. Interesting thing I found today wastitanium wire, too thick for snakes, too dear too but you can buy 25mm asalt water reel seat from this stuff. Some people just have too muchmoney.Anybody want a titanium reel seat? Actually it looks nice in a grey sortof way. Tony At 09:03 AM 10/8/99 -0700, Darrell Lee wrote: Hiall, I'd like to get the infoon some suppliers for nickel silver wire and for snake guide materiali.e. stainless steel, tungsten steel, etc. thanks! Regards, Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_53431047==_.ALT-- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Oct 8 12:37:44 1999 Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:37:30 -0700 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Need sources for wire for snake guides boundary="------------6F52616A59183F738C7D094F" --------------6F52616A59183F738C7D094F Dave LeClair has been our supplier for a long time. He can be contactedthrough the "new and improved" Rodmakers page that Jerry posted a littlewhile ago. I'm not sure of all the details of the arrangement, but RussGooding at Goldenwitch is now selling some of Dave's stuff. Might giveRuss a shot too. Harry Tony Young wrote: Ger NS wire from a jewlery suppliers. It's soft so you may find itwears a bit quick.SS and tungsten I don't know. Interesting thing I found today wastitanium wire, too thick for snakes, too dear too but you can buy 25mmrod for only $388 a meter! Somebody actually wants me to machine asalt water reel seat from this stuff. Some people just have too muchmoney.Anybody want a titanium reel seat? Actually it looks nice in a greysort of way. Tony At 09:03 AM 10/8/99 -0700, Darrell Lee wrote: Hi all, I'd like to get the info on some suppliers for nickel silver wireand for snake guide material i.e. stainless steel, tungsten steel,etc. thanks! Regards, Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com *************************************************************************/AVYoungVisit my web site at:www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.htmlAndthis our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, booksin running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything.WilliamShakespeare, As You Like It /************* ***********************************************************/ --------------6F52616A59183F738C7D094F contactedthrough the "new and improved" Rodmakers page that Jerry posted a little Might give Russ a shot too.HarryTony Young wrote: soft so you may find it wears a bit quick.SS and tungsten I don't know. Interesting thing I found today wastitaniumwire, too thick for snakes, too dear too but you can buy 25mm rod for only reel seat from this stuff. Some people just have too much money.Anybody want a titanium reel seat? Actually it looks nice in a greysort of way.Tony At 09:03 AM 10/8/99 -0700, Darrell Lee wrote:Hiall,I'd like to get theinfo on some suppliers for nickel silver wire and for snake guide materiali.e. stainless steel, tungsten steel, etc.thanks!Regards,DarrellLeewww.bamboorods.homepage.com YoungVisit my web site at:www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.htmlAndthis our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books inrunning brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything.William /*************************************************************************/ --------------6F52616A59183F738C7D094F-- from atrentelman@sprynet.com Fri Oct 8 12:57:37 1999 Subject: Bishop, CA. Hi,Can anyone give me info on the upcoming meeting? When, where, who, etc.Thanks,Chris Raine from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Oct 8 12:59:20 1999 Subject: Re: Nyatex vs. Epon rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 10/8/99 4:52:18 PM, fbcwin@3g.quik.com wrote: Harry - I've never used the Nyatex, so consider this free advice and maybe worth the price. I have heard Nyatex is tough to get off the finished blank, whereas Epon is very easy if you get it in the first couple days. Also, no heat cure is necessary with Epon and even someone like myself, who is sensitive to some epoxies can use it without getting rashes, etc. It tookmy friend Bill Fink about 15 years to talk me into trying the stuff, but I have a lot of confidence in it now. I would encourage you to give it a try, it really is good stuff. from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Fri Oct 8 13:24:15 1999 0400 Subject: RE: Nyatex vs. Epon Tom, do you recommend trying to get the excess off the blank with a ragsoakedin vinegar right after gluing, or should it set for a while? Andy from jfoster@gte.net Fri Oct 8 14:06:36 1999 Subject: arch fixed Harry ....thanks jerry from kjs396t@mail.smsu.edu Fri Oct 8 15:16:56 1999 Subject: RE: RODMAKERS digest 1475 -----Original Message----- and CollectingSubject: RODMAKERS digest 1475 RODMAKERS Digest 1475 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Silk line designations 2) laps 3) Re: laps 4) Re: Silk line designations 5) silk lines 6) Fw: Laps 7) Re: Impregnation of cane 8) Re: silk lines 9) Re: silk lines 10) Re: silk lines and ebay auction posting 11) Re: Silk line designations 12) Planing forms 13) Re: Planing forms 14) Re: silk lines 15) Re: Silk line designations 16) Re: Silk line designations 17) Re: silk lines and ebay auction posting 18) Re: Silk line designations 19) Re: silk lines 20) Silk lines 21) Re: laps 22) silk lines 23) Trout / silk & nylon lines 24) Re: Silk lines 25) Re: Silk lines 26) Wes Jordan publication 27) RE: laps 28) Silk Lines 29) Re: laps 30) archives 31) Leonard 952 32) Need sources for wire for snake guides 33) Re: archives 34) RE: archives 35) Re: archives 36) Nyatex vs. Epon 37) Re: Need sources for wire for snake guides 38) Re: Need sources for wire for snake guides 39) Bishop, CA. 40) Re: Nyatex vs. Epon 41) RE: Nyatex vs. Epon 42) arch from sats@gte.net Fri Oct 8 16:22:37 1999 Subject: Re: laps I guess if you are prepared to invest in an ultrasonic cleaner and avariety of laps and diamond compound you could replace a strip ofemery.Remember, most work out of their basement (if they are lucky) and do notreally want to invest too much.Terry I work out of a room under my house -- but you're right. I don't have a lottoinvest in this hobby. (I've spent to much on other hobbies...) Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from hartzell@easystreet.com Fri Oct 8 16:40:05 1999 Subject: silk lines All:Thanks very much for the dope on identifying silk. Why didn't Ithink of the burn technique?Ed Hartzell from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Oct 8 22:39:19 1999 Subject: Re: Need sources for wire for snake guides In a message dated 10/8/1999 9:06:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time, darrell@rockclimbing.org writes: Darrell,Check with smallparts.com They carry stainless wire and tungsten wire. Also, Sheffield's Knifemwkers supply at 1-904-775-6453 . They carryNickel silver wire, tubing and bar stock. Call for a catalog.Another place is MSC Industrial Supply. Theycarry Nickel-Chromium wire,Monel wire & Titanium wire.1-800-645-7270 Call for a catalog Dave LeClair from noblur@stic.net Fri Oct 8 23:36:39 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0- 60503U15500L11000S0V35)with SMTP id net for ;Fri, 8 Oct 1999 23:36:34 -0500 Subject: Separated sections boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01BF11E6.7A9FB360" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BF11E6.7A9FB360 Can anyone give me some clues to re-gluing separated strips, in a =section ? I've just picked up a very old rod, that looks like a cross between an =early Leonard, and an Orvis ! It's 10'- 4", and has beautiful nickel =silver female ferrules, and a reed wrapped grip ! The guides, and tip =tops are very old, as in 3 ring tip tops, and double "S" guides that are =very small ! The clinker is that I spotted some separation right off, in at least one =of the sections, close to a male ferrule. Is there anything already in =print, on how to handle such repairs ? Thanks guys, GMA ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BF11E6.7A9FB360 Can anyone give me some clues to re-gluing separated = section ? I've just picked up a very old rod, that looks like a cross = an early Leonard, and an Orvis ! It's 10'- 4", and has beautiful nickel = female ferrules, and a reed wrapped grip ! The guides, and tip tops are = The clinker is that I spotted some separation right off, in = least one of the sections, close to a male ferrule. Is there anything = print, on how to handle such repairs ? Thanks guys, GMA ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BF11E6.7A9FB360-- from caneman@clnk.com Fri Oct 8 23:47:22 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 23:46:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Separated sections boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01BF11E7.6A020CA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BF11E7.6A020CA0 George...Mix an ample amount of adhesive to insure a proper mix... You'll =just have to waste some on a project like this. I seperate the =seperated sections with 00 bug pins. you can get them at most hobby =store, force the glue into the joint from all sides, then bind as you =would a newly glued up section. later,Bob -----Original Message-----From: george M. Aldrich Date: Friday, October 08, 1999 11:40 PMSubject: Separated sections Can anyone give me some clues to re-gluing separated strips, in a =section ? I've just picked up a very old rod, that looks like a cross between =an early Leonard, and an Orvis ! It's 10'- 4", and has beautiful nickel =silver female ferrules, and a reed wrapped grip ! The guides, and tip =tops are very old, as in 3 ring tip tops, and double "S" guides that are =very small ! The clinker is that I spotted some separation right off, in at least =one of the sections, close to a male ferrule. Is there anything already =in print, on how to handle such repairs ? Thanks guys, GMA ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BF11E7.6A020CA0 George... = adhesive to insure a proper mix... You'll just have to waste some on a = can get them at most hobby store, force the glue into the joint from all = then bind as you would a newly glued up section. later,Bob -----Original = Rodmakers <RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= Friday, October 08, 1999 11:40 PMSubject: sectionsCan anyone give me some clues to re-gluing separated = a section ? I've just picked up a very old rod, that looks like a = beautiful nickel silver female ferrules, and a reed wrapped grip ! = guides, and tip tops are very old, as in 3 ring tip tops, and double = The clinker is that I spotted some separation right = least one of the sections, close to a male ferrule. Is there = already in print, on how to handle such repairs ? Thanks guys, GMA ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BF11E7.6A020CA0-- from noblur@stic.net Fri Oct 8 23:54:19 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0- 60503U15500L11000S0V35)with SMTP id net for ;Fri, 8 Oct 1999 23:54:11 -0500 Subject: Fw: Separated sections boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0060_01BF11E8.F0574800" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01BF11E8.F0574800 Subject: Re: Separated sections Geez, I've been in hobby shops most of my life, and even worked in them, =and never heard of "bug" pins ! What are they used for ? Thanks for replying though. This rod looks so promising, I don't want to =screw it up. Since I've never glued up a new rod, I'm pretty much in the =dark here. GMA Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 11:47 PMSubject: Re: Separated sections George...Mix an ample amount of adhesive to insure a proper mix... You'll =just have to waste some on a project like this. I seperate the =seperated sections with 00 bug pins. you can get them at most hobby =store, force the glue into the joint from all sides, then bind as you =would a newly glued up section. later,Bob -----Original Message-----From: george M. Aldrich Date: Friday, October 08, 1999 11:40 PMSubject: Separated sections Can anyone give me some clues to re-gluing separated strips, in a =section ? I've just picked up a very old rod, that looks like a cross between =an early Leonard, and an Orvis ! It's 10'- 4", and has beautiful nickel =silver female ferrules, and a reed wrapped grip ! The guides, and tip =tops are very old, as in 3 ring tip tops, and double "S" guides that are =very small ! The clinker is that I spotted some separation right off, in at least =one of the sections, close to a male ferrule. Is there anything already =in print, on how to handle such repairs ? Thanks guys, GMA ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01BF11E8.F0574800 From:george M. =Aldrich Nunley Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 11:57 PMSubject: Re: Separated sections Geez, I've been in hobby shops most of my life, and even = them, and never heard of "bug" pins ! What are they used for =? Thanks for replying though. This rod looks so promising, I = want to screw it up. Since I've never glued up a new rod, I'm pretty = dark here. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Bob =Nunley Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 = PMSubject: Re: Separated =sections George... ample = adhesive to insure a proper mix... You'll just have to waste some on a = can get them at most hobby store, force the glue into the joint from = sides, then bind as you would a newly glued up section. later,Bob -----Original = Rodmakers <RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= Friday, October 08, 1999 11:40 PMSubject: sectionsCan anyone give me some clues to re-gluing separated = a section ? I've just picked up a very old rod, that looks like a = between an early Leonard, and an Orvis ! It's 10'- 4", and has = nickel silver female ferrules, and a reed wrapped grip ! The guides, = tops are very old, as in 3 ring tip tops, and double "S" guides that = The clinker is that I spotted some separation right = least one of the sections, close to a male ferrule. Is there = already in print, on how to handle such repairs ? Thanks guys, =GMA ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01BF11E8.F0574800-- from caneman@clnk.com Sat Oct 9 00:13:00 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Sat, 9 Oct 1999 00:12:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Separated Sections boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0038_01BF11EA.FF2B23E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01BF11EA.FF2B23E0 Remember back in your highschool or college biology days, when you =used a very small diameter pin for your bug collection... those are bug =pins... 00 is the size... small sewing needles will work too, though. Bob -----Original Message-----From: george M. Aldrich Date: Friday, October 08, 1999 11:52 PMSubject: Re: Separated sections Geez, I've been in hobby shops most of my life, and even worked in =them, and never heard of "bug" pins ! What are they used for ? Thanks for replying though. This rod looks so promising, I don't =want to screw it up. Since I've never glued up a new rod, I'm pretty =much in the dark here. GMA Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 11:47 PMSubject: Re: Separated sections George...Mix an ample amount of adhesive to insure a proper mix... =You'll just have to waste some on a project like this. I seperate the =seperated sections with 00 bug pins. you can get them at most hobby =store, force the glue into the joint from all sides, then bind as you =would a newly glued up section. later,Bob -----Original Message-----From: george M. Aldrich Date: Friday, October 08, 1999 11:40 PMSubject: Separated sections Can anyone give me some clues to re-gluing separated strips, =in a section ? I've just picked up a very old rod, that looks like a cross =between an early Leonard, and an Orvis ! It's 10'- 4", and has beautiful =nickel silver female ferrules, and a reed wrapped grip ! The guides, and =tip tops are very old, as in 3 ring tip tops, and double "S" guides that =are very small ! The clinker is that I spotted some separation right off, in =at least one of the sections, close to a male ferrule. Is there anything =already in print, on how to handle such repairs ? Thanks guys, GMA ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01BF11EA.FF2B23E0 george... back in = highschool or college biology days, when you used a very small diameter = your bug collection... those are bug pins... 00 is the size... small = needles will work too, though. Bob -----Original = Friday, October 08, 1999 11:52 PMSubject: Re: = sectionsGeez, I've been in hobby shops most of my life, and = in them, and never heard of "bug" pins ! What are they = ? Thanks for replying though. This rod looks so = don't want to screw it up. Since I've never glued up a new rod, I'm = much in the dark here. GMA ----- Original Message ----- = Bob = ; Rodmakers Sent: Friday, October 08, = 11:47 PM sections George... of adhesive to insure a proper mix... You'll just have to waste = the joint from all sides, then bind as you would a newly glued = section. later,Bob Rodmakers <RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= Friday, October 08, 1999 11:40 PMSubject: = sectionsCan anyone give me some clues to re-gluing = strips, in a section ? I've just picked up a very old rod, that looks = cross between an early Leonard, and an Orvis ! It's 10'- = and has beautiful nickel silver female ferrules, and a reed = grip ! The guides, and tip tops are very old, as in 3 ring = and double "S" guides that are very = ! The clinker is that I spotted some separation = off, in at least one of the sections, close to a male = there anything already in print, on how to handle such = ? Thanks guys, =GMA ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01BF11EA.FF2B23E0-- from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Oct 9 11:25:14 1999 Subject: Re: Other lists ? uncle george has just started up his own "professional rodmakers list",you canjoin through his web site. Could have the makings of some entertainingencounters! Ian Scott wrote: Sean, There is a very new (not much traffic at this time) Rod Building listaimedat graphite (plastic ) rod builders.http://www.absolute- sway.com/rfa/rodbuild.html You may also want to check out the resources available regarding customrodbuilding at my flyfishing site at about.com:http://flyfishing.about.com/ In the Custom Rods category, you will find also find a link to the CustomRod Builders Guild, which has an active bulletin board. There are also newsgroups available as well, which you can find at theflyfishing site by clicking on the Newsgroups and Forums link under'MoreLinks" There is also a bulletin board available at that site too. The Virtual Fly Box has a low traffic email list devoted to fly tying andfly swaps. The URL for this site is:http://www.virtualflybox.com It is a great site, and deserves somesupport! Hope this helps. I am sure there are lots more as well! Ian H. ScottProviding Goal Centered Internet SolutionsPairoWoodies Publishinghttp://www.absolute-sway.com/ Fly Fishing Links and Resourceshttp://flyfishing.about.com/ ********************************************"A single conversation across the table with a wise man is better thantenyears study of books"- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: October 5, 1999 7:50 AM Subject: Other lists ? Just wondering if anyone knows of other rodmaking or flyfishingrelatedlists like this one? Sean ElsWork : +2712 529 6790Fax : +2712 529 6888 from BigJohn47@aol.com Sat Oct 9 11:29:34 1999 Subject: finishes has anybody out there tried the new water based finishes on cane rod sections. from noblur@stic.net Sat Oct 9 11:38:25 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0- 60503U15500L11000S0V35)with SMTP id net; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 09:13:39 - 0500 "Ian Kearney" Subject: Re: Separated sections boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002C_01BF1237.18214CC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BF1237.18214CC0 I shouldn't write so late at night ! This morning I find it's the H-I =that's separated, not the unknown antique ! Also I find the NS ferrules =on the antique are Devine type, and pinned. I've ordered some books, as I've never seen how blanks are wrapped in =the glue up operation. You gotta' start some place ! Thanks to all, for the response. GMA Sent: Saturday, October 09, 1999 2:31 AMSubject: Re: Separated sections George, I have restored(?) several old rods like this which are antique rods =butnever likely to be fished again using the white PVA glue and putting =themthrough the binder. I use the Tom Smithfield type of binder and it is =quiteeasy to avoid the guides etc . I poke the glue into the split , use a toothpick to help get it down =if At 11:40 PM 8/10/99 -0500, george M. Aldrich wrote:Can anyone give me some clues to re-gluing separated strips, in a =section ? I've just picked up a very old rod, that looks like a cross between =anearly Leonard, and an Orvis ! It's 10'- 4", and has beautiful nickel =silverfemale ferrules, and a reed wrapped grip ! The guides, and tip tops =are veryold, as in 3 ring tip tops, and double "S" guides that are very small =! The clinker is that I spotted some separation right off, in at least =one ofthe sections, close to a male ferrule. Is there anything already in =print,on how to handle such repairs ? Thanks guys, GMA Can anyone give me some clues to re-gluing separated = section ? I've just picked up a very old rod, that looks like a =cross an early Leonard, and an Orvis ! It's 10'- 4", and has beautiful = female ferrules, and a reed wrapped grip ! The guides, and tip tops = The clinker is that I spotted some separation right off, = least one of the sections, close to a male ferrule. Is there anything print, on how to handle such repairs ? Thanks guys, GMA ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BF1237.18214CC0 I shouldn't write so late at night ! This morning I find = H-I that's separated, not the unknown antique ! Also I find the NS = the antique are Devine type, and pinned. I've ordered some books, as I've never seen how blanks are = in the glue up operation. You gotta' start some place ! Thanks to all, for the response. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Kearney Sent: Saturday, October 09, = AMSubject: Re: Separated =sectionsGeorge,I have restored(?) several old rods like = which are antique rods butnever likely to be fished again using = PVA glue and putting themthrough the binder. I use the Tom = of binder and it is quiteeasy to avoid the guides etc .I = glue into the split , use a toothpick to help get it down = and then bind The glue wipes off the cane quite easily = Kearney At 11:40 PM 8/10/99 -0500, george M. Aldrich = between anearly Leonard, and an Orvis ! It's 10'- 4", and has = nickel silverfemale ferrules, and a reed wrapped grip ! The = tip tops are veryold, as in 3 ring tip tops, and double "S" guides = right off, in at least one ofthe sections, close to a male = = give = = just picked up a very old rod, that looks like a crossbetween = early Leonard, and an Orvis ! It's 10'- 4", and has beautiful nickel = = clinker is that I spotted some separation right off, in at = of the sections, close to a male ferrule. Is there anythingalready = = = ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BF1237.18214CC0-- from Sean.Els@intl.bidlog.co.za Sat Oct 9 11:48:33 1999 (SAST) Subject: Test Please ignore , this is just a test.Sorry for the inconvenience Sean ElsPretoria South AfricaCell : 082 497 6392Work : 012 529 6790Fax : 012 529 6888 from noblur@stic.net Sat Oct 9 12:33:03 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0- 60503U15500L11000S0V35)with SMTP id net; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 12:33:00 - 0500 Subject: Re: finishes boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0033_01BF1252.F1A4F080" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BF1252.F1A4F080 So far, we have not been able to find this water based epoxy enamel, in =a really clear coating. If anyone does, please advise. What we have had =to date, is advanced yellowing, in sun light. GMA Sent: Saturday, October 09, 1999 9:07 AMSubject: finishes sections. ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BF1252.F1A4F080 So far, we have not been able to find this water based = enamel, in a really clear coating. If anyone does, please advise. What = had to date, is advanced yellowing, in sun light. GMA ----- Original Message ----- BigJohn47@aol.com = Sent: Saturday, October 09, = AMSubject: finisheshas anybody out there tried the new water based = ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BF1252.F1A4F080-- from moran@lincoln.midcoast.com Sat Oct 9 15:53:13 1999 Sat, 9 Oct 1999 16:14:19 -0400 Subject: Re: finishes I used Varathane water sol finish a couple of years ago after doing myfloors with it. It was great to use, dried almost instantly and had notoxic smell. The finish came out great and I thought I had the perfectfinish. Then I went fishing. I noticed a sticky spot on the rod andthought I got some goo on my hands. Then a couple more spots showed up.That's when it occurred to me that the insect repellant might be eatingthruthe finish. Late at night, under cover of darkness with my wife soundlyasleep, I put some Off on the floor(in a well hidden spot) and sure enoughthe goo appeared. I haven't bothered to refinish either the rod or thefloor but I've gone back to Man O War for my rods. Sean Moran----- Original Message ----- Subject: finishes has anybody out there tried the new water based finishes on cane rodsections. from anglport@con2.com Sat Oct 9 20:26:10 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id AAE31F70134; Sat, 09 Oct 1999 21:24:51 -0400 Subject: Re: finishes Sean,I'm not saying you should go back to the Varathane; just be sure yougivethat repellant the respect it deserves. If it's DEET it'll eat your lineand the plastic digital watch off your wrist if you're not careful. Itmight be more effective to keep the varnish and find another bug goop!Take care,Art At 04:03 PM 10/09/1999 -0400, Karen and Sean Moran wrote:I used Varathane water sol finish a couple of years ago after doing myfloors with it. It was great to use, dried almost instantly and had notoxic smell. The finish came out great and I thought I had the perfectfinish. Then I went fishing. I noticed a sticky spot on the rod andthought I got some goo on my hands. Then a couple more spots showed up.That's when it occurred to me that the insect repellant might be eatingthruthe finish. Late at night, under cover of darkness with my wife soundlyasleep, I put some Off on the floor(in a well hidden spot) and sure enoughthe goo appeared. I haven't bothered to refinish either the rod or thefloor but I've gone back to Man O War for my rods. Sean Moran----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Saturday, October 09, 1999 10:07 AMSubject: finishes has anybody out there tried the new water based finishes on cane rodsections. from noblur@stic.net Sat Oct 9 20:55:37 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0- 60503U15500L11000S0V35)with SMTP id net; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 20:55:25 - 0500 , Subject: Re: finishes boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01BF1299.21FA20C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BF1299.21FA20C0 In my business, we have to have finishes that will withstand methanol, =and 75% nitro methane ! This stuff will "eat" most finishes, except poly =urethanes, and epoxies. ANY Varathane, will not take it ! Min-Wax, and =Glidden will. They come in both satin, and gloss types. GMA Sent: Saturday, October 09, 1999 8:28 PMSubject: Re: finishes Sean,I'm not saying you should go back to the Varathane; just be sure you =givethat repellant the respect it deserves. If it's DEET it'll eat your =lineand the plastic digital watch off your wrist if you're not careful. Itmight be more effective to keep the varnish and find another bug goop!Take care,Art At 04:03 PM 10/09/1999 -0400, Karen and Sean Moran wrote:I used Varathane water sol finish a couple of years ago after doing =myfloors with it. It was great to use, dried almost instantly and had =notoxic smell. The finish came out great and I thought I had the =perfectfinish. Then I went fishing. I noticed a sticky spot on the rod andthought I got some goo on my hands. Then a couple more spots showed =up.That's when it occurred to me that the insect repellant might be =eating thruthe finish. Late at night, under cover of darkness with my wife =soundlyasleep, I put some Off on the floor(in a well hidden spot) and sure =enoughthe goo appeared. I haven't bothered to refinish either the rod or =thefloor but I've gone back to Man O War for my rods. Sean Moran----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Saturday, October 09, 1999 10:07 AMSubject: finishes has anybody out there tried the new water based finishes on cane =rodsections. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BF1299.21FA20C0 In my business, we have to have finishes that will = methanol, and 75% nitro methane ! This stuff will "eat" most finishes, = poly urethanes, and epoxies. ANY Varathane, will not take it ! Min-Wax, = Glidden will. They come in both satin, and gloss types. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Art =Port ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Saturday, October 09, = PMSubject: Re: finishesSean,I'm not saying you should go back to the = just be sure you givethat repellant the respect it deserves. If = it'll eat your lineand the plastic digital watch off your wrist if = not careful. Itmight be more effective to keep the varnish and = another bug goop!Take care,ArtAt 04:03 PM = <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BF1299.21FA20C0-- from moran@lincoln.midcoast.com Sat Oct 9 22:00:10 1999 Sat, 9 Oct 1999 23:06:01 -0400 "Art Port" Subject: Re: finishes Art, I know that DEET is tough stuff. I still fish the rod and I'm extracareful with the bug dope but it is hard to justify using a finish thatwon't stand up to an occasional spot of bug dope. I've never had thatproblem with varnish or poly. Sean----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: finishes Sean,I'm not saying you should go back to the Varathane; just be sure you givethat repellant the respect it deserves. If it's DEET it'll eat your lineand the plastic digital watch off your wrist if you're not careful. Itmight be more effective to keep the varnish and find another bug goop!Take care,Art At 04:03 PM 10/09/1999 -0400, Karen and Sean Moran wrote:I used Varathane water sol finish a couple of years ago after doing myfloors with it. It was great to use, dried almost instantly and had notoxic smell. The finish came out great and I thought I had the perfectfinish. Then I went fishing. I noticed a sticky spot on the rod andthought I got some goo on my hands. Then a couple more spots showedup.That's when it occurred to me that the insect repellant might be eatingthruthe finish. Late at night, under cover of darkness with my wife soundlyasleep, I put some Off on the floor(in a well hidden spot) and sureenoughthe goo appeared. I haven't bothered to refinish either the rod or thefloor but I've gone back to Man O War for my rods. Sean Moran----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Saturday, October 09, 1999 10:07 AMSubject: finishes has anybody out there tried the new water based finishes on cane rodsections. from brookside.rod@juno.com Sun Oct 10 07:41:46 1999 08:40:16 EDT Subject: Re: Leonard 952 (38ACM?) On Fri, 08 Oct 1999 09:27:02 -0600 John Hewitt writes:To the list...I've been given an H.L. Leonard 952 for restoration. The customer islooking for some background information, and an estimate of worth forinsurance purposes.On the rod tube is a hand written tag saying: 38 ALM...ROD #952...7', 2pc, 2 3/8 oz John; Your earlier post regarding this Leonard rod got me thinking as somethingdid not seem quite right. I wonder if the tube label could actually read"38 ACM"? The 7 foot 2/2 38ACM rods were built to be crisp dry fly rods the company and promoted the idea of short crisp rods for the dry fly. It would be interesting to know the type of wood in the reel seat insertand the width of the slip ring. Are the tips short at the butt or tipend? What size ferrule is used? What is the cane dimension behind theswelled butt? (between the swell and the grip) Perhaps we could shedsome light on this rod. BTW it might be wise not to do anything with itjust now. Gary . ___________________________________________________________________Get the Internet just the way you want it.Free software, free e- mail, and free Internet access for a month!Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. from rvenneri@ulster.net Sun Oct 10 08:56:06 1999 Subject: Cutting tool info Hi Guys,Some of you may be buying a lathe or already own one,but have no ideaof tool geometry or speeds and feeds to use. I have put on my web spacesome info on tool goemetry and in the future will have some info onspeeds and feeds. Go to my web page and click on Mach shop info. It is alittle slow loading. Best regards Bob VVenneri's21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties Ny 12477http://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index.html from JHecht9234@aol.com Sun Oct 10 09:10:48 1999 Subject: 4'4" banty guide placement Does anyone have suggest guide placement/sizes for a banty rod of thissize. I'm at a loss and would appreciate any advice. Thanks. from darrell@rockclimbing.org Sun Oct 10 09:33:54 1999 Subject: Wire material for snake guides. Care & feeding of a silk fly line. boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0026_01BF12F1.C7ABB300" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BF12F1.C7ABB300 Thanks to all who replied... Yes, I did obtain one of the snake makers = from Russ Gooding and it is really neat! The latest version is actually =5 tools for the various sizes. NS is a very soft material but that's =what was used on some early rods so this with this tool, I can reproduce =replica snakes that are no longer made... I was hoping to find some =thinner wire than Russ sells for snakes as his diameter might be just a =touch thick for the smallest sizes. So I was looking for a second =supplier with a variety of diameters. SILK FLY RECONDITIONING - I've had a page on my website for a while that=gives instructions for reconditioning silk fly lines. If you could look =at the page and make any suggestions as to the procedures, materials, =I'd greatly appreciate it. These instructions were given to me by =another on the list a while back. I'd be happy to add more or different =methods of reconditioning the lines since there seems to be quite a bit =of interest here. Gotta run to the swap meet this morning... see if I can find some $10 =fly reels with silk line on them... 8^) Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BF12F1.C7ABB300 Thanks toall = Yes, I did obtain one of the snake makers from Russ Gooding and it is = neat! The latest version is actually 5 tools for the various sizes. NS = soft material but that's what was used on some early rods so this with = tool, I can reproduce replica snakes that are no longer made... I was = find some thinner wire than Russ sells for snakes as his diameter might = a touch thick for the smallest sizes. So I was looking for a second = with a variety of diameters. SILK FLY = reconditioning silk fly lines. If you could look at the page and make = suggestions as to the procedures, materials, I'd greatly appreciate it. = instructions were given to me by another on the list a while back. I'd = to add more or different methods of reconditioning the lines since there = to be quite a bit of interest here. Gotta run to the swap meet = see if I can find some $10 fly reels with silk line on = 8^) Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BF12F1.C7ABB300-- from noblur@stic.net Sun Oct 10 10:13:39 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0- 60503U15500L11000S0V35)with SMTP id net; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 10:13:34 - 0500 Subject: Re: Wire material for snake guides. Care & feeding of a silk flyline. boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00A4_01BF1308.A26ECDE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00A4_01BF1308.A26ECDE0 Can anyone give me a web site, or address for obtaining one of these =snake guide benders ? GMA Sent: Sunday, October 10, 1999 9:33 AMSubject: Wire material for snake guides. Care & feeding of a silk fly =line. Thanks to all who replied... Yes, I did obtain one of the snake makers = from Russ Gooding and it is really neat! The latest version is actually =5 tools for the various sizes. NS is a very soft material but that's =what was used on some early rods so this with this tool, I can reproduce =replica snakes that are no longer made... I was hoping to find some =thinner wire than Russ sells for snakes as his diameter might be just a =touch thick for the smallest sizes. So I was looking for a second =supplier with a variety of diameters. SILK FLY RECONDITIONING - I've had a page on my website for a while =that gives instructions for reconditioning silk fly lines. If you could =look at the page and make any suggestions as to the procedures, =materials, I'd greatly appreciate it. These instructions were given to =me by another on the list a while back. I'd be happy to add more or =different methods of reconditioning the lines since there seems to be =quite a bit of interest here. Gotta run to the swap meet this morning... see if I can find some $10 =fly reels with silk line on them... 8^) Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com ------=_NextPart_000_00A4_01BF1308.A26ECDE0 Can anyone give me a web site, or address for obtaining one= these snake guide benders ? GMA ----- Original Message ----- Darrell Lee Makers Sent: Sunday, October 10, 1999 = AMSubject: Wire material for = Care & feeding of a silk fly line. Thanks to= replied... Yes, I did obtain one of the snake makers from Russ Gooding = is really neat! The latest version is actually 5 tools for the various = NS is a very soft material but that's what was used on some early rods = with this tool, I can reproduce replica snakes that are no longer = was hoping to find some thinner wire than Russ sells for snakes as his = diameter might be just a touch thick for the smallest sizes. So I was = SILK FLY= reconditioning silk fly lines. If you could look at the page and make = suggestions as to the procedures, materials, I'd greatly appreciate = instructions were given to me by another on the list a while back. I'd = happy to add more or different methods of reconditioning the lines = seems to be quite a bit of interest here. Gotta run to the swap meet= Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com ------=_NextPart_000_00A4_01BF1308.A26ECDE0-- from lars32@gateway.net Sun Oct 10 10:30:26 1999 Subject: 1475 digest boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0067_01BF130A.9FA42A40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01BF130A.9FA42A40 sounds interesting how do I find it? ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01BF130A.9FA42A40 sounds interesting how do I it? ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01BF130A.9FA42A40-- from lars32@gateway.net Sun Oct 10 10:39:41 1999 Subject: 1475 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0075_01BF130B.ED4EDDC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0075_01BF130B.ED4EDDC0 sounds good how do I find it? ------=_NextPart_000_0075_01BF130B.ED4EDDC0 it? ------=_NextPart_000_0075_01BF130B.ED4EDDC0-- from DNHayashida@aol.com Sun Oct 10 12:43:18 1999 Subject: "Silk" Line? I have a "silk" line somebody wanted me to restore. After I getthe black sticky goo cleaned off the line is white, and it just doesn't seem the same as the other silk lines I have restored.I do the burn test and it turns to ash - doesn't ball up, but the smell is totally different. There is a slight reminder a tee shirtright out of the dryer. So I burn the end of a cotton rag, andthe smell is the same. I think someone in the past soldbraided cotton flylines. Darryl from darrell@rockclimbing.org Sun Oct 10 13:58:52 1999 Subject: Re: "Silk" Line? They also used to make linen fly lines... sound like that might be what youhave. Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com -----Original Message----- Subject: "Silk" Line? I have a "silk" line somebody wanted me to restore. After I getthe black sticky goo cleaned off the line is white, and it justdoesn't seem the same as the other silk lines I have restored.I do the burn test and it turns to ash - doesn't ball up, but thesmell is totally different. There is a slight reminder a tee shirtright out of the dryer. So I burn the end of a cotton rag, andthe smell is the same. I think someone in the past soldbraided cotton flylines. Darryl from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Sun Oct 10 14:03:36 1999 with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.6.0c.R) Subject: Request for Beta Test participants I would like to issue a request for beta testers of a piece of software thatI am developing for bamboo flyrod builders. This software is not intendedto compete with any of the products that are currently out there. In otherwords it will not calculate tapers, or stress curves, etc etc. This program is designed to keep track of every aspect of the rodbuildingprocess for the builder (i.e., type of rod, glues, wrappings, specs, evenwho you sold the rod to). Another part of the program will store all ofyour favorite tapers. If you would like to help beta test this software and be a part of it'sdevelopment send me a private email at jcbyrd@direct-pest.com I want to go on record thanking such great rodbuilders as Richard TyreeandR.L. King for giving me (a novice builder) input on this program. =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life" from CAdams46@compuserve.com Sun Oct 10 17:55:08 1999 Subject: moisture content I was just thinking than rather than heating your strips to get rid of someof the moisture in the cane wounldn't it work to put your strips in a pvcpipe with one of those glodenrod things they sell to lower the mositure ingun safes? Or maybe just put one of those little cans that remove themoisture at the bottom? I realize my question is kind of broad I just hopesome of you have looked at the Cabelas catalog and know what I am talkingabout. Seems to me it would work and be fairly cheap.Thanks,C.R. Adams from mschaffer@mindspring.com Sun Oct 10 18:17:24 1999 Subject: Structure of silk fly line Hi guys! Hope everyone had a dry weekend- we floated away here inAtlanta,but we needed the water.Got a question for the silk fly line gurus in the group.I've never cast a silk line (would like to some day), but I've read plentyof good posts about them over the past 2 weeks, and was wondering if theflyline is made from a group of full length single strands woven/braidedtogether, or are short lengths tied together into single strands thenwoven,or (this is the last one) are various lengths of silk line braided then theshort lengths bound together ,as mentioned earlier, to whatever linelengthis desired? Mike from BambooRods@aol.com Sun Oct 10 22:11:27 1999 Subject: Re: Test know..."Where are you" I just looked at a post from South Africa and started thinking about the scope of this list. Does anyone have an idea of the various countries that we have members from.Doug Hall from saweiss@flash.net Sun Oct 10 23:01:15 1999 Subject: Re: "Silk" Line? could it be linen?Steve Weiss I have a "silk" line somebody wanted me to restore. After I getthe black sticky goo cleaned off the line is white, and it just doesn't seem the same as the other silk lines I have restored.I do the burn test and it turns to ash - doesn't ball up, but the smell is totally different. There is a slight reminder a tee shirtright out of the dryer. So I burn the end of a cotton rag, andthe smell is the same. I think someone in the past soldbraided cotton flylines. Darryl from jgm56@gateway.net Mon Oct 11 08:38:40 1999 Subject: test boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF13CB.79959C00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF13CB.79959C00 test ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF13CB.79959C00 test ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF13CB.79959C00-- from arnold.jl@pg.com Mon Oct 11 08:39:48 1999 [192.44.184.138] Oct 1999 Oct 1999 09:09:12 1999)) id85256807.004853A3 ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:10:00 -0400 Subject: Bamboo Fly Rod Mag Has anyone seen any sign that the magazine still exits. The last issue I gotwasthe first "double issue" and I haven't seen anything since. Jeff from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Mon Oct 11 08:42:27 1999 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id IAA29712 for (8.8.4/8.6.8) withSMTP id IAA26680 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 Subject: Re: moisture content Chase, Yes the goldenrod things should work; there are similar heatingtubes for clothes closets that I've seen at a home center typestore. And lots of people on this list like a capped tubewith the renewable dessicant powder. I made a drying tube out of a long (5 ft) aluminum rod tube, the heating element out of a heating pad, and a couple rolls of electical tape. It hangs along the joists over my workbench andkeeps the strips about 100-120degF, depending on whether I cap itor not. My basement is pretty damp April-Sept, and it works ducky.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot- warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Sun, 10 Oct 1999, Chase R Adams wrote: I was just thinking than rather than heating your strips to get rid ofsomeof the moisture in the cane wounldn't it work to put your strips in a pvcpipe with one of those glodenrod things they sell to lower the mositureingun safes? Or maybe just put one of those little cans that remove themoisture at the bottom? I realize my question is kind of broad I justhopesome of you have looked at the Cabelas catalog and know what I amtalkingabout. Seems to me it would work and be fairly cheap.Thanks,C.R. Adams from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Oct 11 08:50:41 1999 GAA01007 (5.5.2448.0) Subject: corbette lake Has anybody heard if the dates have been changed for corbette lakegathering next year?I got a conformation from Peter and the dates had been changed to April27 through may1st. When I called they told me that the dates had been changed but nobodyseems to knowanything about it> Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from Sean.Els@intl.bidlog.co.za Mon Oct 11 09:15:02 1999 (SAST) Hi everybody I was browsing in the archives and happened across several references ofaListserver called Flyfish.I know this is of the topic but could someone please give me the low downonthis List. (how one signs up etc.)Regards.Sean ElsPretoria South AfricaCell : 082 497 6392Work : 012 529 6790Fax : 012 529 6888 from flyman35@home.com Mon Oct 11 10:17:19 1999 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP Subject: test this is just a test. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Oct 11 10:22:45 1999 Mon, 11 Oct 1999 07:39:09 -0700 Subject: Re: Structure of silk fly line Doc,Can't answer your questions about how silk lines are made, but I willsay that you may get a chance to tryo some out at the Southern Rodmakersgathering. One of the things I'm looking forward to is lining up all kinds ofrods, and casting to my heart's content! Some of them are bound to havesilkstrung up. Harry Mike Shaffer wrote: Hi guys! Hope everyone had a dry weekend- we floated away here inAtlanta,but we needed the water.Got a question for the silk fly line gurus in the group.I've never cast a silk line (would like to some day), but I've read plentyof good posts about them over the past 2 weeks, and was wondering ifthe flyline is made from a group of full length single strands woven/braidedtogether, or are short lengths tied together into single strands thenwoven,or (this is the last one) are various lengths of silk line braided then theshort lengths bound together ,as mentioned earlier, to whatever linelengthis desired? Mike from flyman35@home.com Mon Oct 11 10:34:12 1999 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP Subject: rod varnish what is the best way to strip varnish from a rod in need of repair?thanks-matt from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Oct 11 11:03:30 1999 Subject: Re: Need sources for wire for snake guides RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 10/9/1999 11:05:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time, georgewb@pacbell.net writes: George,You're right about the catalog. It takes two handsto lift it. I've got they're CD, it is a lot easier. Also, whenthey send you a new catalog, they send a CD with it. Dave from Nodewrrior@aol.com Mon Oct 11 11:15:07 1999 Subject: Re: rod varnish This may go against the grain, but in a more modern rod (i.e. not glued with hide glue), I use the quickest stripper with the most skulls and crossbones on the can I can find. Usually it's a wipe on-wipe off proceedure with older varnishes that have deteriorated. Newer poly will take a few timesthrough.Some probably prefer the slower, milder removers, but I don't like the idea of a liquid or paste sitting on the rode for long periods of time. This way I feel I can control the time the chemical is on the rod. Most of these strippers are quickly deactivated with water, so the reaction can bequickly contained.This might be heresy to some... Rob Hoffhines from dickay@alltel.net Mon Oct 11 11:57:31 1999 LAA27282; Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Mag Jeff, I haven't even got the double issue!! I had to buy the first issueat a Fly Shop, then got issues 2 & 3. I then bought issue 4 and finally gota copy of 4 in the mail. Have yet to see the 5/6 issue. I guess they'vegone under. Darryl do you have any further info?Dick Fuhrman ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Bamboo Fly Rod Mag Has anyone seen any sign that the magazine still exits. The last issue Igot wasthe first "double issue" and I haven't seen anything since. Jeff from DNHayashida@aol.com Mon Oct 11 12:16:28 1999 Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Mag Jeff, I haven't even got the double issue!! I had to buy the first issueat a Fly Shop, then got issues 2 & 3. I then bought issue 4 and finally gota copy of 4 in the mail. Have yet to see the 5/6 issue. I guess they'vegone under. Darryl do you have any further info?Dick Fuhrman No they haven't gone under yet. You can email the editor, Mark Metcalfat bam-fly@pacbell.net, or call him at (714) 921-1964. As far as whenthe next issue is coming out, even I don't get the whole story when Iask, so I have given up asking.Darryl from darrell@rockclimbing.org Mon Oct 11 12:48:14 1999 Subject: How to remove cane from male tip ferule??? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00CB_01BF13D5.FB9D1200" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00CB_01BF13D5.FB9D1200 I recently purchased a Thomas, Edwards, Payne or FE Thomas Izaak Walton=rod... when I was on the east coast I met with the seller to receive the =rod and before I gave him the bundle of cash, I assembled the rod gave =it a flick and the rod tip when flying off... I felt so embarrassed that =I didn't insert the tip section completely or I didn't notice that the =ferrule fit was really loose... but, when I retrieved the tip section, I =found that the tip had broken off at he ferrule... I was in shock... a historic rod with all sections full length broken!!! =After they revived me... I was able to regain my wits about me... and =then renegotiated the price... (sorry, 20 years as a real estate = The question... What do you recommend doing to remove the broken section= from the ferrule. It's a George Varney serrated ferrule and is pinned. = Regards, Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com ------=_NextPart_000_00CB_01BF13D5.FB9D1200 I recently= Thomas, Edwards, Payne or FE Thomas Izaak Walton rod... when I was on = coast I met with the seller to receive the rod and before I gave him the = of cash, I assembled the rod gave it a flick and the rod tip when flying = I felt so embarrassed that I didn't insert the tip section completely or = didn't notice that the ferrule fit was really loose... but, when I = tip section, I found that the tip had broken off at he =ferrule... I was in shock... a historic = sections full length broken!!! After they revived me... I was able to = wits about me... and then renegotiated the price... (sorry, 20 years as = estate broker). The question... What do you = doing to remove the broken section from the ferrule. It's a George = serrated ferrule and is pinned. Need to get some tips on removing the = from the ferrule... Regards, Darrell =Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com ------=_NextPart_000_00CB_01BF13D5.FB9D1200-- from jfoster@gte.net Mon Oct 11 12:59:17 1999 Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Mag I talked to Mark the other day..he's had phenomena for the last ninemo.s..he seemed to be positive about the mag..still having productionproblems? i think he's re-orging. jerry from DNHayashida@aol.com Mon Oct 11 13:48:28 1999 Subject: Restoring a silk line Reed,Just finished reading the article on flyfishersonline. Wow! how elegant in it'ssimplicity! The baking soda you told me about a year ago still is the bestway to clean them, and it never occurred to me to use the commercial tung/varnish mixes. I went directly into trying to concoct my own. I'mstill going to vacuum impregnate the line, but I am going to use the storebought tung/varnish. My hat's off to you! Darryl from noblur@stic.net Mon Oct 11 14:06:32 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0- 60503U15500L11000S0V35)with SMTP id net; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 14:06:25 - 0500 , Subject: Re: Need sources for wire for snake guides boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0048_01BF13F2.51568020" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01BF13F2.51568020 I quit buying from MSC several years ago, when I discovered Travers =Tool, in Flushing, N.Y.. Their prices are far better, and they seldom =zero out an item. Call at 1-800-221-0207, and ask for a catalog, and to open an account. =They will give you an account number, and then you can order via credit =card, anytime. It's worth the trouble ! GMA Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 11:02 AMSubject: Re: Need sources for wire for snake guides georgewb@pacbell.net writes: George,You're right about the catalog. It takes two handsto lift it. I've got they're CD, it is a lot easier. Also, whenthey send you a new catalog, they send a CD with it. Dave ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01BF13F2.51568020 I quit buying from MSC several years ago, when I discovered= Tool, in Flushing, N.Y.. Their prices are far better, and they seldom = an item. Call at 1-800-221-0207, and ask for a catalog, and to open= account. They will give you an account number, and then you can order = card, anytime. It's worth the trouble ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- LECLAIR123@aol.com = Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 = AMSubject: Re: Need sources for = snake guidesIn a message dated 10/9/1999 11:05:42 PM Pacific = = = Dave ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01BF13F2.51568020-- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Oct 11 14:36:06 1999 Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Mag Jerry,What the heck is phenomena? I think he had pneumonia.Bret from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon Oct 11 15:26:43 1999 13:28:55 PDT Subject: RE: How to remove cane from male tip ferule??? Darrell, Remove the pin, then apply heat until the cane chars where it meets with the ferrule wall. You should be able to get it out at that point. If it's a ferrule cement it would be even easier as you would only need to meltthe glue. If the diameter is large enough, you could drill a small hole and screw a wood screw into the cane piece to give yourself something to hold onto while heating it up and pulling the cane piece out. Any scorching on the ferrule will clean away with a brass polish. Chris McDowell from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Oct 11 15:49:15 1999 Subject: Re: Need sources for wire for snake guides RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 10/11/1999 12:06:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time, noblur@stic.net writes: George,Thanks for the info on Travers. I'm always looking Dave LeClair from darrell@rockclimbing.org Mon Oct 11 16:42:38 1999 sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: Need sources for wire for snake guides georgewb@pacbell.net, RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01E6_01BF13F5.F425DAA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01E6_01BF13F5.F425DAA0 Thanks for the tip on Travers... however... I called them and cannot =connect with the 800 number you gave me... Is there an out of state 800 =number or a local number we can reach them... Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com -----Original Message-----From: george M. Aldrich =; darrell@rockclimbing.org =; RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu = Date: Monday, October 11, 1999 12:06 PMSubject: Re: Need sources for wire for snake guides I quit buying from MSC several years ago, when I discovered Travers =Tool, in Flushing, N.Y.. Their prices are far better, and they seldom =zero out an item. Call at 1-800-221-0207, and ask for a catalog, and to open an =account. They will give you an account number, and then you can order =via credit card, anytime. It's worth the trouble ! GMA Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 11:02 AMSubject: Re: Need sources for wire for snake guides In a message dated 10/9/1999 11:05:42 PM Pacific Daylight georgewb@pacbell.net writes: George,You're right about the catalog. It takes two =handsto lift it. I've got they're CD, it is a lot easier. Also, =whenthey send you a new catalog, they send a CD with it. Dave ------=_NextPart_000_01E6_01BF13F5.F425DAA0 Thanks forthe = Travers... however... I called them and cannot connect with the 800 = gave me... Is there an out of state 800 number or a local number we can = them... Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com -----Original = LECLAIR123@aol.com georgewb@pacbell.net darrell@rockclimbing.org = ; RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= <RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= Monday, October 11, 1999 12:06 PMSubject: Re: Need = I quit buying from MSC several years ago, when I = Travers Tool, in Flushing, N.Y.. Their prices are far better, and = seldom zero out an item. Call at 1-800-221-0207, and ask for a catalog, and to = account. They will give you an account number, and then you can = credit card, anytime. It's worth the trouble ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- = LECLAIR123@aol.com RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, October 11, = 11:02 AMSubject: Re: Need sources = In a message dated 10/9/1999 11:05:42 PM Pacific = catalogs, and while it is very nice, it must cost them = = You're right about the catalog. It takes two = = Dave ------=_NextPart_000_01E6_01BF13F5.F425DAA0-- from noblur@stic.net Mon Oct 11 17:17:14 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0- 60503U15500L11000S0V35)with SMTP id net; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:17:05 - 0500 , Subject: Re: Need sources for wire for snake guides boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004E_01BF140B.4334E900" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BF140B.4334E900 If you are in N.Y., they may have a different number, I never thought of =that. I'll check their catalog, for such numbers, and post them shortly. =I'm in Texas ! GMA Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 4:36 PMSubject: Re: Need sources for wire for snake guides Thanks for the tip on Travers... however... I called them and cannot =connect with the 800 number you gave me... Is there an out of state 800 =number or a local number we can reach them... Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com -----Original Message-----From: george M. Aldrich =; darrell@rockclimbing.org =; RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu = Date: Monday, October 11, 1999 12:06 PMSubject: Re: Need sources for wire for snake guides I quit buying from MSC several years ago, when I discovered Travers =Tool, in Flushing, N.Y.. Their prices are far better, and they seldom =zero out an item. Call at 1-800-221-0207, and ask for a catalog, and to open an =account. They will give you an account number, and then you can order =via credit card, anytime. It's worth the trouble ! GMA Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 11:02 AMSubject: Re: Need sources for wire for snake guides georgewb@pacbell.net writes: George,You're right about the catalog. It takes two handsto lift it. I've got they're CD, it is a lot easier. Also, whenthey send you a new catalog, they send a CD with it. Dave ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BF140B.4334E900 If you are in N.Y., they may have a different number, I = thought of that. I'll check their catalog, for such numbers, and post = shortly. I'm in Texas ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- Darrell Lee = Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 = PMSubject: Re: Need sources for = snake guides Thanks Travers... however... I called them and cannot connect with the 800 = gave me... Is there an out of state 800 number or a local number we = them... Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com -----Original = LECLAIR123@aol.com georgewb@pacbell.net darrell@rockclimbing.org = ; RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= <RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= Monday, October 11, 1999 12:06 PMSubject: Re: Need = I quit buying from MSC several years ago, when I = Travers Tool, in Flushing, N.Y.. Their prices are far better, and = seldom zero out an item. Call at 1-800-221-0207, and ask for a catalog, and to = account. They will give you an account number, and then you can = credit card, anytime. It's worth the trouble ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- = LECLAIR123@aol.com = Sent: Monday, October 11, = AMSubject: Re: Need sources = In a message dated 10/9/1999 11:05:42 PM Pacific = = it. I've got they're CD, it is a lot easier. Also, = = Dave ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BF140B.4334E900-- from noblur@stic.net Mon Oct 11 17:34:56 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0- 60503U15500L11000S0V35)with SMTP id net; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:34:47 - 0500 , Subject: Re: Need sources for wire for snake guides boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00BD_01BF140E.F86305C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00BD_01BF140E.F86305C0 Here's some info, that should cover anyone, for reaching Travers =Tool.1- 800-522-1111, or 1-888-433-2882, or 1-718-886-7200, forthose in = www.travers.com for their web site. GMA Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 4:36 PMSubject: Re: Need sources for wire for snake guides Thanks for the tip on Travers... however... I called them and cannot =connect with the 800 number you gave me... Is there an out of state 800 =number or a local number we can reach them... Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com -----Original Message-----From: george M. Aldrich =; darrell@rockclimbing.org =; RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu = Date: Monday, October 11, 1999 12:06 PMSubject: Re: Need sources for wire for snake guides I quit buying from MSC several years ago, when I discovered Travers =Tool, in Flushing, N.Y.. Their prices are far better, and they seldom =zero out an item. Call at 1-800-221-0207, and ask for a catalog, and to open an =account. They will give you an account number, and then you can order =via credit card, anytime. It's worth the trouble ! GMA Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 11:02 AMSubject: Re: Need sources for wire for snake guides georgewb@pacbell.net writes: George,You're right about the catalog. It takes two handsto lift it. I've got they're CD, it is a lot easier. Also, whenthey send you a new catalog, they send a CD with it. Dave ------=_NextPart_000_00BD_01BF140E.F86305C0 Here's some info, that should cover anyone, for reaching = Tool.1-800-522-1111, or 1-888-433-2882, or 1-718-886-7200, forthose in = www.travers.com for = site. fine. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Darrell Lee = Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 = PMSubject: Re: Need sources for = snake guides Thanks Travers... however... I called them and cannot connect with the 800 = gave me... Is there an out of state 800 number or a local number we = them... Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com -----Original = LECLAIR123@aol.com georgewb@pacbell.net darrell@rockclimbing.org = ; RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= <RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= Monday, October 11, 1999 12:06 PMSubject: Re: Need = I quit buying from MSC several years ago, when I = Travers Tool, in Flushing, N.Y.. Their prices are far better, and = seldom zero out an item. Call at 1-800-221-0207, and ask for a catalog, and to = account. They will give you an account number, and then you can = credit card, anytime. It's worth the trouble ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- = LECLAIR123@aol.com = Sent: Monday, October 11, = AMSubject: Re: Need sources = In a message dated 10/9/1999 11:05:42 PM Pacific = = it. I've got they're CD, it is a lot easier. Also, = = Dave ------=_NextPart_000_00BD_01BF140E.F86305C0-- from DNHayashida@aol.com Mon Oct 11 17:38:40 1999 Subject: Re: Restoring a silk line Reed,A quick question:Do you do your talc treatment on a freshly varnished line?Darryl from darrell@rockclimbing.org Mon Oct 11 17:46:18 1999 sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: Need sources for wire for snake guides georgewb@pacbell.net, RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0240_01BF13FF.9F7B2820" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0240_01BF13FF.9F7B2820 I don't know why it didn't work... I'm in California... Darrell-----Original Message-----From: george M. Aldrich LECLAIR123@aol.com ; georgewb@pacbell.net =; RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu = Date: Monday, October 11, 1999 3:17 PMSubject: Re: Need sources for wire for snake guides If you are in N.Y., they may have a different number, I never =thought of that. I'll check their catalog, for such numbers, and post =them shortly. I'm in Texas ! GMA Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 4:36 PMSubject: Re: Need sources for wire for snake guides Thanks for the tip on Travers... however... I called them and =cannot connect with the 800 number you gave me... Is there an out of =state 800 number or a local number we can reach them... Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com -----Original Message-----From: george M. Aldrich georgewb@pacbell.net ; darrell@rockclimbing.org =; RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu = Date: Monday, October 11, 1999 12:06 PMSubject: Re: Need sources for wire for snake guides I quit buying from MSC several years ago, when I discovered =Travers Tool, in Flushing, N.Y.. Their prices are far better, and they =seldom zero out an item. Call at 1-800-221-0207, and ask for a catalog, and to open =an account. They will give you an account number, and then you can order =via credit card, anytime. It's worth the trouble ! GMA Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 11:02 AMSubject: Re: Need sources for wire for snake guides In a message dated 10/9/1999 11:05:42 PM Pacific = georgewb@pacbell.net writes: George,You're right about the catalog. It takes =two handsto lift it. I've got they're CD, it is a lot easier. =Also, whenthey send you a new catalog, they send a CD with it. Dave ------=_NextPart_000_0240_01BF13FF.9F7B2820 I don'tknow = work... I'm in California... Darrell -----Original = darrell@rockclimbing.org = ; LECLAIR123@aol.com georgewb@pacbell.net RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= <RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= Monday, October 11, 1999 3:17 PMSubject: Re: Need = wire for snake guidesIf you are in N.Y., they may have a different number, I = thought of that. I'll check their catalog, for such numbers, and = shortly. I'm in Texas ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- = Darrell Lee Aldrich ; LECLAIR123@aol.com ; georgewb@pacbell.net ; RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, October 11, = PMSubject: Re: Need sources = Thanks = on Travers... however... I called them and cannot connect with = number you gave me... Is there an out of state 800 number or a = number we can reach them... Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= <RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= Monday, October 11, 1999 12:06 PMSubject: Re: = sources for wire for snake guidesI quit buying from MSC several years ago, when = discovered Travers Tool, in Flushing, N.Y.. Their prices are = better, and they seldom zero out an item. Call at 1-800-221-0207, and ask for a catalog, = open an account. They will give you an account number, and = can order via credit card, anytime. It's worth the trouble ! GMA ----- Original Message = LECLAIR123@aol.com Sent: Monday, = 1999 11:02 AMSubject: Re: Need = In a message dated 10/9/1999 11:05:42 PM = printed catalogs, and while it is very nice, it must = Biggest catalog I've ever = = = =Dave ------=_NextPart_000_0240_01BF13FF.9F7B2820-- from brookie@frii.com Mon Oct 11 18:07:03 1999 Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Mag At 10:57 AM 10/11/99 -0700, you wrote:I talked to Mark the other day..he's hadphenomena for the last nine mo.s..he seemed to be positive about the mag..still having production problems? i think he's re-orging. I have to grin at this, he's had "phenomena" ??!Sounds like something that is plausible I guess.In any case, my opinion is this, the magazine ispretty okay by me. It IS afterall the only canemag around for the time being. It has articles Rodmakers List (kin in other words). We finally get to see folks who have cane fishing it ! Insome pretty nice places too. So the chap is biton the unusual side as far as meeting productionand publication deadlines .... in my mind this makesit all the more interesting. Hang on to all your copies of it, they will becollector's items someday. suecolorado from caneman@clnk.com Mon Oct 11 18:39:58 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:39:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Mag Hey, I didn't even think it was wrong! LOL In the last three years, I havehad a phenomenal divorce, a phenomenal stroke, etc... So I thought havingphenomena for 9 months was for real LMAO... Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Mag At 10:57 AM 10/11/99 -0700, you wrote:I talked to Mark the other day..he's hadphenomena for the last nine mo.s..heseemed to be positive about the mag..still having production problems?i think he's re-orging. I have to grin at this, he's had "phenomena" ??!Sounds like something that is plausible I guess.In any case, my opinion is this, the magazine ispretty okay by me. It IS afterall the only canemag around for the time being. It has articles Rodmakers List (kin in other words). We finallyget to see folks who have cane fishing it ! Insome pretty nice places too. So the chap is biton the unusual side as far as meeting productionand publication deadlines .... in my mind this makesit all the more interesting. Hang on to all your copies of it, they will becollector's items someday. suecolorado from noblur@stic.net Mon Oct 11 18:45:17 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0- 60503U15500L11000S0V35)with SMTP id net; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:45:10 - 0500 Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Mag boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001E_01BF1419.45F6BFC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BF1419.45F6BFC0 Well, pneumonia is not funny. I got at sore throat Feb. 6th, it went to =my chest on the 7th, and I got slapped in the "horse pistol" on the 8th, = heart is drowning" ! THAT will get your attention ! Total bill at the =hospital, $11,400 ! GMA Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 5:52 PMSubject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Mag At 10:57 AM 10/11/99 -0700, you wrote:I talked to Mark the other day..he's had seemed to be positive about the mag.. i think he's re-orging. I have to grin at this, he's had "phenomena" ??!Sounds like something that is plausible I guess.In any case, my opinion is this, the magazine ispretty okay by me. It IS afterall the only canemag around for the time being. It has articles get to see folks who have cane fishing it ! Insome pretty nice places too. So the chap is biton the unusual side as far as meeting productionand publication deadlines .... in my mind this makesit all the more interesting. Hang on to all your copies of it, they will becollector's items someday. suecolorado ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BF1419.45F6BFC0 Well, pneumonia is not funny. I got at sore throat Feb. = went to my chest on the 7th, and I got slapped in the "horse pistol" on = drowning" ! THAT will get your attention ! Total bill at the hospital, = ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- SueK= = Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 = PMSubject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod =Mag talked = had "phenomena" ??!Sounds like something that is plausible I = any case, my opinion is this, the magazine ispretty okay by = articlesby people we all know in the 'biz' and on theRodmakers = is biton the unusual side as far as meeting productionand = ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BF1419.45F6BFC0-- from darrell@rockclimbing.org Mon Oct 11 20:24:26 1999 sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Mag But did you catch any phenomenal fish!!!-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Mag Hey, I didn't even think it was wrong! LOL In the last three years, Ihavehad a phenomenal divorce, a phenomenal stroke, etc... So I thought havingphenomena for 9 months was for real LMAO... Bob -----Original Message-----From: SueK Date: Monday, October 11, 1999 6:09 PMSubject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Mag At 10:57 AM 10/11/99 -0700, you wrote:I talked to Mark the other day..he's hadphenomena for the last nine mo.s..heseemed to be positive about the mag..still having production problems?i think he's re-orging. I have to grin at this, he's had "phenomena" ??!Sounds like something that is plausible I guess.In any case, my opinion is this, the magazine ispretty okay by me. It IS afterall the only canemag around for the time being. It has articles Rodmakers List (kin in other words). We finallyget to see folks who have cane fishing it ! Insome pretty nice places too. So the chap is biton the unusual side as far as meeting productionand publication deadlines .... in my mind this makesit all the more interesting. Hang on to all your copies of it, they will becollector's items someday. suecolorado from mrj@aa.net Mon Oct 11 20:39:31 1999 Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:39:25 -0700 Subject: RE: rod varnish Assuming that you will be fairly careful, one method that I have used withsuccess is to put varnish remover on the rod and leave it on for say, nomore than 5 minutes. This softens up the varnish and you can remove itfairly easily with steel wool. I did this on a rod from the late thirties orearly forties so it probably was not a really water proof glue and I haveexperienced no problems with the rod. Go easy with the steel wool so asnotto round any corners. I suppose that you could scrape the varnish off but Ididn't want the remover to sit on the rod too long as I was afraid of itsoaking in and affecting the glue. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: rod varnish what is the best way to strip varnish from a rod in need of repair?thanks-matt from mrj@aa.net Mon Oct 11 20:42:22 1999 Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:42:15 -0700 "'rodmakers'" Subject: RE: Corbett lake Can I assume that if the dates for the meeting were changed then thereservations for accommodations would be changed also? soundsreasonable butyou know what they say about assuming... Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- W Subject: corbette lake Has anybody heard if the dates have been changed for corbette lakegatheringnext year? I got a conformation from Peter and the dates had been changedtoApril 27 through may 1st. When I called they told me that the dates hadbeenchanged but nobody seems to know anything about it> Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon Oct 11 22:33:19 1999 "rodmakers" Subject: Re: rod varnish Instead of steel wool, use some coarse terry cloth wipers. I find thatthree applications of remover will get the rod squeaky clean. ----------From: Martin Jensen Subject: RE: rod varnishDate: Monday, October 11, 1999 9:38 PM Assuming that you will be fairly careful, one method that I have usedwithsuccess is to put varnish remover on the rod and leave it on for say, nomore than 5 minutes. This softens up the varnish and you can remove itfairly easily with steel wool. I did this on a rod from the late thirtiesorearly forties so it probably was not a really water proof glue and I haveexperienced no problems with the rod. Go easy with the steel wool so asnotto round any corners. I suppose that you could scrape the varnish off butIdidn't want the remover to sit on the rod too long as I was afraid of itsoaking in and affecting the glue. Martin Jensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu TROPPSent: October 11, 1999 8:38 AM Subject: rod varnish what is the best way to strip varnish from a rod in need of repair?thanks-matt from saweiss@flash.net Mon Oct 11 23:42:06 1999 Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Mag phenomena is the plural of phenomenonSteve Jerry,What the heck is phenomena? I think he had pneumonia.Bret from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Oct 12 01:22:33 1999 Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:21:57 +0800 Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Mag types="text/plain,text/html";boundary="=====================_2341819==_.ALT" --=====================_2341819==_.ALT My advice to you all is if you feel sick and can make the, get the to ahospital here or NZ. The hospitals here are either free or almost then youcanget in some fishing when you're fixed. Tony At 06:48 PM 10/11/99 -0500, george M. Aldrich wrote: Well, pneumonia is not funny. I got at sore throat Feb. 6th, it went to mychest on the 7th, and I got slapped in the "horse pistol" on the 8th, fora 5day visit, The Dr. says, "Well your lungs are full, and your heart isdrowning" ! THAT will get your attention ! Total bill at the hospital,$11,400 ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- From: SueK Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 5:52 PM Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Mag At 10:57 AM 10/11/99 -0700, you wrote: I talked to Mark the other day..he's had phenomena for the last nine mo.s..he seemed to be positive about the mag.. still having production problems? i think he's re-orging. I have to grin at this, he's had "phenomena" ??! Sounds like something that is plausible I guess. In any case, my opinion is this, the magazine is pretty okay by me. It IS afterall the only cane mag around for the time being. It has articles Rodmakers List (kin in other words). We finally get to see folks who have cane fishing it ! In some pretty nice places too. So the chap is bit on the unusual side as far as meeting production and publication deadlines .... in my mind this makes it all the more interesting. Hang on to all your copies of it, they will be collector's items someday. sue colorado /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_2341819==_.ALT My advice to you all is if you feel sick and can make the, get the to ahospital here or NZ. The hospitals here are either free or almost thenyou can get in some fishing when you're fixed. Tony At 06:48 PM 10/11/99 -0500, george M. Aldrich wrote: Well, pneumonia is not funny. I got at sorethroat Feb. 6th, it went to my chest on the 7th, and I got slapped in the"horse pistol" on the 8th, for a 5 day visit, The Dr. says,"Well your lungs are full, and your heart is drowning" ! THATwill get your attention ! Total bill at the hospital, $11,400 ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- From:SueK Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 5:52 PMSubject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Mag At 10:57 AM 10/11/99 -0700, you wrote: I have to grin at this, he's had "phenomena" ??!Sounds like something that is plausible I guess.In any case, my opinion is this, the magazine is on the unusual side as far as meeting productionand publication deadlines .... in my mind this makesit all the more interesting. Hang on to all your copies of it, they will becollector's items someday. suecolorado /*************************************************************************/AV Young And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_2341819==_.ALT-- from Sean.Els@intl.bidlog.co.za Tue Oct 12 03:02:19 1999 (SAST) Subject: Please ignore this is a test No mail for three days .Unsubscribed and re subscribe.Hope this does the trick.Sorry for the inconvenience. Sean ElsPretoria South AfricaCell : 082 497 6392Work : 012 529 6790Fax : 012 529 6888 from Sean.Els@intl.bidlog.co.za Tue Oct 12 07:37:02 1999 (SAST) Subject: Metal forms Just wondering if anyone in Southern Africa ( RSA , Botswana , ZimbabweorNamibia ) had any luck finding metal forms locally Sean ElsPretoria South AfricaCell : 082 497 6392Work : 012 529 6790Fax : 012 529 6888 from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Tue Oct 12 11:03:43 1999 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id LAA09584 for (8.8.4/8.6.8) withSMTP id LAA24464 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 Subject: Demarest on Power Fibers In the recent issue of "The Planing Form" there is an article which is cosmetically better but has less power fibers, aslittle as 1.5/32 inch at the tip. I'm wondering if anyone hasa comment on this article. Do experienced builders have objective criteria for power fiber depth or do you just sort to save the heavy cane for the heavy rods? Do you ever reject a culm becausethe power fibers are thin?......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Oct 12 13:11:36 1999 Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Mag Steve,I know what phenomena means I was being a smart a-- and saying I thinkyou meant pneumonia.Bret from anglport@con2.com Tue Oct 12 13:36:29 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id AF6515940138; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:35:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Demarest on Power Fibers Do experienced builders have objective criteria for power fiber depth or do you just sort to save the heavy cane for the heavy rods? Do you ever reject a culm becausethe power fibers are thin? Frank,I DO have objective criteria, but usually I can custom-fit the culm to therod,andyes, on occasion, I've found one to be unacceptable.Art from hexagon@odyssee.net Tue Oct 12 15:02:40 1999 Subject: Re: Demarest on Power Fibers I did not think Demarest sold anything but the type of cane you describe. Frank Stetzer wrote: In the recent issue of "The Planing Form" there is an article which is cosmetically better but has less power fibers, aslittle as 1.5/32 inch at the tip. I'm wondering if anyone hasa comment on this article. Do experienced builders have objectivecriteria for power fiber depth or do you just sort to save theheavy cane for the heavy rods? Do you ever reject a culm becausethe power fibers are thin?......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from caneman@clnk.com Tue Oct 12 15:25:06 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Tue, 12 Oct 1999 15:23:56 -0500 Subject: Fw: Demarest on Power Fibers -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Demarest on Power Fibers I have a very strict criteria for power fibers. I use the same "grade" ofcane for all my rods from my heaviest to my lightest... I never throwanything away, tho... use the cane that won't make a good rod to makelanding nets for my buddies. Bob-----Original Message-----From: Frank Stetzer Date: Tuesday, October 12, 1999 11:10 AMSubject: Demarest on Power Fibers In the recent issue of "The Planing Form" there is an article which is cosmetically better but has less power fibers, aslittle as 1.5/32 inch at the tip. I'm wondering if anyone hasa comment on this article. Do experienced builders have objectivecriteria for power fiber depth or do you just sort to save theheavy cane for the heavy rods? Do you ever reject a culm becausethe power fibers are thin?......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from mschaffer@mindspring.com Tue Oct 12 20:31:48 1999 Subject: Ron Barch's email address If someone wouldn't mind sending me Ron's email address so I cansubscribe,I would appreciate it. I know I should have done this a long time ago, but Igoofed, and didn't!TIA, Mike from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Oct 12 21:53:00 1999 Subject: Re: Demarest on Power Fibers Frank, Art, et al.,Yes, I've had a few culms that I've rejected due to insufficient power fibers but not too many of the 60 culms I've used or have stored.As far as the Demarests' quality goes I've had some rejects (4 out of60) and have been very satisfied with the rest so far. There are some culmswith more than 1/4" power fibers on the butt end so the 1.5/32" power fiberdepth at the tip seems to be the exception as far as my lot is concerned. Theusual disclaimers apply.Regards,Hank. from chris@artistree.com Wed Oct 13 02:03:28 1999 [205.134.241.137] (may beforged)) Subject: Silk Lines Revisted Since I didn't receive much of a rebuttal to my original post regardingwhether older rod tapers were designed to be used for silk lines andmight not work as well with today's PVC lines I went looking for one. I went back and reread the fly line chapter in A.J. McClane's ThePractical Fly Fisherman. In short one gets the feeling that finding the"right" line for the "right" rod required a lot of research,experimentation and last but not least...luck! My later revised printingof the book includes his comments looking back at what he wrote 23 yearsearlier. McClane states, "When I look back on the semantics of fly linesin 1952 it was miraculous that anybody could match one to a fly rod. AsI said then, the critical factor of weight is missing." The latter statement regarding weight really opens up the can of worms. -- Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from chris@artistree.com Wed Oct 13 02:28:14 1999 [205.134.241.137] (may beforged)) Subject: Son of Silk Line Refinishing There was a couple of other issues A.J. McClane brings up in "ThePractical Fly Fisherman" that I found of interest. In regard to the silk line finish he states the following, "A softfinish is an advantage in heavy diameters (size C or larger). The hardfinish tends to kink or twist in shooting through the guides. This ismost important to the caster using a double taper such as a HCH, or GBH,as the heavy portion of a torpedo head is fully extended before theshoot is made. Conversely, a hard finish in line sizes D or smaller issuperior, as the line travels with less friction and doesn't snarl aseasily as the soft finish. Later on he talks about how deep the finish in the line effects theflexibility of the line. McClane writes, "Almost all fly lines arehollow in the sense that they are braided without a core, so the makingof a floatable line depends on the finish - specifically, how deeply thefinish penetrates the raw material after the line has been braided. Ifthe finish, be it enamel, oil, or plastic, goes right through thematerial, it will fill the tiny cells inside and dry there, which ineffect makes a solid fly line. If the finish is only absorbed to a pointslightly under the surface of the raw material, the inside cells remainempty, and the line is hollow. from a manufacture's standpoint, theproblem is to get a finish that will not be completely absorbed and atthe same time be flexible and durable enough to prevent chipping." I guess that's some food for thought.-- Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from rsgould@cmc.net Wed Oct 13 09:00:31 1999 Subject: Spiral rod boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF1548.A1983A40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF1548.A1983A40 Hi to all,I've just glued up the butt section for my first spiral rod. What a =shock to have spent all these years trying to make straight rods only to =find myself now putting twists into them. After having read Letcher =Lambuth's book "The Angler's Workshop" where he describes the process = twist in the rod sections based on a variation of the "tensioner" =previously described to the list. I tried putting photos of this on the =list but the effort was rejected due to too many bytes. If anyone is =particularly interested in the gadget I could probably email you a photo =direct. In the meantime I've got to work on the tip section next along =with restoring an E.C.Powell 5ft x 2pc dainty little wand.Ray ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF1548.A1983A40 Hi to all,I've just glued up the butt section for= spiral rod. What a shock to have spent all these years trying to make = rods only to find myself now putting twists into them. After having read = Lambuth's book "The Angler's Workshop" where he describes the process = spiral rods I improvised a simpler "form" for putting the twist in the = sections based on a variation of the "tensioner" previously described to = list. I tried putting photos of this on the list but the effort was = to too many bytes. If anyone is particularly interested in the gadget I = probably email you a photo direct. In the meantime I've got to work on = wand.Ray ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF1548.A1983A40-- from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Wed Oct 13 09:20:13 1999 0400 Subject: WD40..does it contain silicone? Does anyone know what WD40 has in it? I used some on my steel planingformsafter I finished my first rod last spring. What should I use to remove itbeforeplaning again? I guess what I am really wondering is whether it containsthatevil substance: silicone.... Thanks, Andy from trout_eejit@hotmail.com Wed Oct 13 10:09:04 1999 Wed, 13 Oct 1999 08:08:28 PDT Subject: Re: WD40..does it contain silicone? Nope. See their page at: http://www.wd-40.com/ and in particular, http://www.wd-40.com/english/wd40q.asp From: andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Subject: WD40..does it contain silicone?Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:12:39 - 0400 Does anyone know what WD40 has in it? I used some on my steel planingformsafter I finished my first rod last spring. What should I use to remove it beforeplaning again? I guess what I am really wondering is whether it contains thatevil substance: silicone.... Thanks, Andy ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from briansr@point-net.com Wed Oct 13 10:39:51 1999 0000 Subject: Re:WD40 whatsinit? Hi FolksWD40 sprayed on any large fly will certainly induce Sturgeon to bite !!!!Out west It's even sprayed on rags and flung out into the river using largesurf rods.As a note , it was originally produced as a humidity/waterinhibitor on wiring in Thor ICBM missiles in the 50sCheers Brian from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Oct 13 10:49:26 1999 1999 08:59:50 PDT Subject: Re: WD40..does it contain silicone? greetings! this suprized me but wd40, as i was told,is kerosene and vanilla bean. timothy From: andrew_harsanyi@ibi.comDoes anyone know what WD40 has in it? I used some Thanks, Andy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed Oct 13 10:54:25 1999 IAA23452; (5.5.2448.0) "'briansr@point-net.com'" Subject: RE: WD40 whatsinit? it is highly illegal to use on any fishing lure, fly or line here in wash, itcontaminates the water but fish love the stuff. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ----------From: Brian Sturrock[SMTP:briansr@point-net.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 8:38 AM Subject: Re:WD40 whatsinit? Hi FolksWD40 sprayed on any large fly will certainly induce Sturgeon to bite !!!!Out west It's even sprayed on rags and flung out into the river usinglargesurf rods.As a note , it was originally produced as a humidity/waterinhibitor on wiring in Thor ICBM missiles in the 50sCheers Brian from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Oct 13 10:59:44 1999 Wed, 13 Oct 1999 23:59:27 +0800 Subject: Re:WD40 whatsinit? it must cause some kind of disturbance/turbulance that differs to cleanflys/rags and causes attention? Tony At 11:38 AM 10/13/99 -0400, Brian Sturrock wrote:Hi FolksWD40 sprayed on any large fly will certainly induce Sturgeon to bite !!!!Out west It's even sprayed on rags and flung out into the river using largesurf rods.As a note , it was originally produced as a humidity/waterinhibitor on wiring in Thor ICBM missiles in the 50sCheers Brian /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from Jmadigan@smithbreeden.com Wed Oct 13 11:04:52 1999 with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:03:49 -0400 Subject: Fwd: RE: WD40 whatsinit? This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. Don't you wonder what possessed the person who first tried this? ; Wed, 13 Oct 99 11:57:15 EDT IAA23452; (5.5.2448.0) Subject: RE: WD40 whatsinit? it is highly illegal to use on any fishing lure, fly or line here in wash, itcontaminates the water but fish love the stuff. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ----------From: Brian Sturrock[SMTP:briansr@point-net.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 8:38 AM Subject: Re:WD40 whatsinit? Hi FolksWD40 sprayed on any large fly will certainly induce Sturgeon to bite !!!!Out west It's even sprayed on rags and flung out into the river usinglargesurf rods.As a note , it was originally produced as a humidity/waterinhibitor on wiring in Thor ICBM missiles in the 50sCheers Brian from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Oct 13 11:12:52 1999 1999 09:23:16 PDT Subject: RE: WD40 whatsinit? it just plays havoc on modern flylines. i've seen 2lines this year come into the shop that were exposedto wd40 in a toolbox or tackle box. maybe it could beused to replace the lanolin in the fleece flypatch(this is humor). i knew an oldtimer once thatchewed anise candy and spit on his flys(i'm notsuggesting this is ethical nor do i endorce it as apractice - this too is humor). timothy --- "Coffey, Patrick W"wrote:it is highly illegal to use on any fishing lure, flyor line here in wash, it contaminates the water butfish love the stuff. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ----------From: Brian Sturrock[SMTP:briansr@point-net.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 8:38 AM Subject: Re:WD40 whatsinit? Hi FolksWD40 sprayed on any large fly will certainlyinduce Sturgeon to bite !!!!Out west It's even sprayed on rags and flung outinto the river using largesurf rods.As a note , it was originally producedas a humidity/waterinhibitor on wiring in Thor ICBM missiles in the50sCheers Brian ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Wed Oct 13 11:16:35 1999 0400 Subject: RE: WD40..does it contain silicone? Thanks everybody...I just knew I'd get a lot of good responses.... from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Oct 13 11:31:37 1999 1999 09:42:16 PDT Subject: Re: WD40..does it contain silicone? Subject: WD40..does it contain silicone?Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:12:39 - 0400 Does anyone know what WD40 has in it? it is my understanding that wd40 is kerosene andvanilla bean. this is what i was told. timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Oct 13 11:32:58 1999 Thu, 14 Oct 1999 00:32:40 +0800 Subject: Re: Fwd: RE: WD40 whatsinit? It was prob a water skier who used it to get the outboard going and wastaken by a shark ;-) Tony At 12:03 PM 10/13/99 -0400, Jerry Madigan wrote:Don't you wonder what possessed the person who first tried this? ; Wed, 13 Oct 99 11:57:15 EDT Received: from blv-smtpout-01.boeing.com (blv-smtpout-01.boeing.com IAA23452; Received: by xch-pssbh-01.ca.boeing.com with Internet Mail Service(5.5.2448.0) Message-Id: Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduX-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0)X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CRENDate: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:53:56 -0400From: "Coffey, Patrick W" Subject: RE: WD40 whatsinit?Mime-Version: 1.0Content-Type: text/plainContent-Disposition: inline it is highly illegal to use on any fishing lure, fly or line here in wash,it contaminates the water but fish love the stuff. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ----------From: Brian Sturrock[SMTP:briansr@point-net.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 8:38 AM Subject: Re:WD40 whatsinit? Hi FolksWD40 sprayed on any large fly will certainly induce Sturgeon to bite !!!!Out west It's even sprayed on rags and flung out into the river usinglargesurf rods.As a note , it was originally produced as a humidity/waterinhibitor on wiring in Thor ICBM missiles in the 50sCheers Brian /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Oct 13 11:40:34 1999 Thu, 14 Oct 1999 00:37:14 +0800 Subject: RE: WD40 whatsinit? Apparently what happens with this and other solutions that cause vinyl totake an original shine is it causes whatever the material it's applied togive up some of whatever makes the original shine and or flexibility andthis causes the line, dashboard or whatever to prematurely age.Don't put it on your fly line. Tony At 09:23 AM 10/13/99 -0700, timothy troester wrote:it just plays havoc on modern flylines. i've seen 2lines this year come into the shop that were exposedto wd40 in a toolbox or tackle box. maybe it could beused to replace the lanolin in the fleece flypatch(this is humor). i knew an oldtimer once thatchewed anise candy and spit on his flys(i'm notsuggesting this is ethical nor do i endorce it as apractice - this too is humor). timothy --- "Coffey, Patrick W"wrote:it is highly illegal to use on any fishing lure, flyor line here in wash, it contaminates the water butfish love the stuff. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ----------From: Brian Sturrock[SMTP:briansr@point-net.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 8:38 AM Subject: Re:WD40 whatsinit? Hi FolksWD40 sprayed on any large fly will certainlyinduce Sturgeon to bite !!!!Out west It's even sprayed on rags and flung outinto the river using largesurf rods.As a note , it was originally producedas a humidity/waterinhibitor on wiring in Thor ICBM missiles in the50sCheers Brian ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from dmanders@telusplanet.net Wed Oct 13 13:14:45 1999 don") Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:16:51 -0600 Subject: Re: WD40..does it contain silicone? Andy, wipeddown with WD40 after each trip. The finish finally came off and no amountof effort would get a varnish to hold on the cane again when refinishingwas attempted. Silicone or not - it does repel varnish. Who knows aboutglues etc. I'd wipe my forms down with acetone or some type of alcoholprior to planning just in case. Don At 10:12 AM 10/13/99 -0400, andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com wrote:Does anyone know what WD40 has in it? I used some on my steel planingformsafter I finished my first rod last spring. What should I use to remove itbeforeplaning again? I guess what I am really wondering is whether it containsthatevil substance: silicone.... Thanks, Andy from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Oct 13 13:43:09 1999 11:46:09 PDT Subject: 7' Divine 3 pc. Here's a taper taken without varnish from a three piece Divine 7' fly rod. Not sure of the history of this rod. The ferrules are turn of the century and the reelseat is from the 1920's. I think it is a Standard Trout special ordered in the shorter 7' length. Labels are gone. No, I don't know the casting characteristics or line wt. recommendation. 1" .0825" .08710" .10015" .11320" .12825" .14630" .15635" .15940" .17745" .18950" .20855" .21860" .24065" .27470" .29572" .297Swell Begins75" .430 from rambo2_98@yahoo.com Wed Oct 13 16:30:54 1999 1999 14:30:51 PDT Subject: test I haven't received a rodmaker's msg for at least aweek. ===== __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Wed Oct 13 17:46:09 1999 with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.6.0d.R) 0400 "Tony Spezio" , "Tom Whittle" ,"Steven Weiss" , ,"Richard Tyree" ,"Mark and Tracey" ,"Lowell Davis" , "jgm56","Jaquin" , "James Wilcox",, "George M. Aldrich" ,"Eric Radgowski" ,"Domenic P. Croce" ,"Dennis Bertram" ,"Darrell Lee" ,"Chris Bogart" , "Bob Nunley","Joe Mulvey" ,"Bamboo Flyrod List" Subject: Beta Test Participants I want to thank everyone for their enthusiastic response to my call forbetatest participants. In order to easily manage a beta program I have selected 20 individuals toparticipate. If you receive two copies of this email (Rodbuilders list, anda private email) you were selected. If you weren't selected at first you will be included in the second wave ofparticipants.Phase II will follow in approximately 3-4 weeks. Phase II will last forabout a month and hopefully we will have a public release around 1- 15December, 1999. Thanks to everyone for your response. Joe Byrd =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life" from noblur@stic.net Wed Oct 13 18:26:22 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0- 60503U15500L11000S0V35)with SMTP id net for ;Wed, 13 Oct 1999 18:26:15 -0500 Subject: Fw: WD40..does it contain silicone? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0025_01BF15A8.F799BD00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BF15A8.F799BD00 Subject: Re: WD40..does it contain silicone? I've used WD-40, for over 35 years, and my machines have been coated =with it so many times, a good wash with kerosene, would have them =looking like new. They are very well protected, as I can't stand rust on =anything. A customer learned the hard way, you don't put it in an engine, as it =will burn, and leave terrible varnish on the parts. I've sprayed my =over&unders with it, at the end of a days dove shooting, and they have =never had any sign of rust. However, the carrier, which is a kerosene type material, does evaporate, =and the residue will really gum up the inside of engines, or reels, =stored with it on the interior moving parts. I have several guns, that =have been refinished in Casey's Linseed Oil, and it has never affected =the finish. It certainly doesn't bother spar varnish, epoxies, or =urethanes either. GMA Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 1:15 PMSubject: Re: WD40..does it contain silicone? Andy, wipeddown with WD40 after each trip. The finish finally came off and no =amountof effort would get a varnish to hold on the cane again when =refinishingwas attempted. Silicone or not - it does repel varnish. Who knows =aboutglues etc. I'd wipe my forms down with acetone or some type of =alcoholprior to planning just in case. Don At 10:12 AM 10/13/99 -0400, andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com wrote:Does anyone know what WD40 has in it? I used some on my steel planing=formsafter I finished my first rod last spring. What should I use to =remove itbeforeplaning again? I guess what I am really wondering is whether it =contains thatevil substance: silicone.... Thanks, Andy ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BF15A8.F799BD00 From:george M. =Aldrich Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 4:32 PMSubject: Re: WD40..does it contain silicone? I've used WD-40, for over 35 years, and my machines have = coated with it so many times, a good wash with kerosene, would havethem = anything. A customer learned the hard way, you don't put it in an = over&unders with it, at the end of a days dove shooting, and they = had any sign of rust. However, the carrier, which is a kerosene type material, = evaporate, and the residue will really gum up the inside of engines, or = stored with it on the interior moving parts. I have several guns, that = refinished in Casey's Linseed Oil, and it has never affected the finish. = either. GMA ----- Original Message ----- & Sandy Andersen Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Wednesday, October 13, = PMSubject: Re: WD40..does it = silicone?Andy,For whatever its worth, I was told a tale = about a rod that was wipeddown with WD40 after each trip. The = finally came off and no amountof effort would get a varnish to = cane again when refinishingwas attempted. Silicone or not - it = =