Which lathe is the best for turning cork & ferrules? Is the Sherline =3" bigenough? I'm on a limited budget (college student) so your help is =GREATLYappreciated! John Collier I started with a Unimat lathe/mill set up, in 1960. Shortly= I found a 10" Atlas, that had come out of a school, for $280 ! I could = thousand times more with the Atlas, for about the same money ! Watch the= and garage sales, as you never know what you can find ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- John = = Sent: Thursday, October 21, = PMSubject: LatheWhich lathe is the best for turning cork & = Collier from anglport@con2.com Thu Oct 21 19:39:48 1999 Subject: Re: Advice sought. Harley,GO for it!Art At 05:44 PM 10/21/1999 -0400, hsilver@pyx.net wrote: On Thu, 21 Oct 1999, Art Port wrote: Harley,Go with the "Either". There'll be only you and George Gherke out thereconflicting with each other! (Great parody!)Art Danke. But alas, me thinks I'll go with Door Number Two. Quick fame andcash by climbing and stomping over others doesn't seem to be a great wayto last very long and seems a road straight to alienation. Many of us maydelight in fishing and hiking alone for extended periods but usuallyreturn to civilization once in a while. There's no sense in having peopleyou left wishing you wouldn't come back and that is easily avoidable.Mostwould sit quietly and marvel at the craftmanship of a fine split bamboorod and yet, for at least one other, there this great the headlong rush tocrank out as many of those bamboo puppies in as short a time possible.Odd. Very odd indeed. Seriously, if you already have the metalworking skills, I'd suggest doingafairly cheap graphite blank first to hone the abilities that'll make agreat piece of cane look ordinary if you don't have some practice underyour belt.The metalworking will work with the cane (really) but youneedpatience and experience with the finishing to make it look GOOD. 'Courseyou could always strip the finish off and try again if it's not to yourliking.Art Too late. :)I already have one bamboo culm cut, split and the staves for the buttsection sanded and ready for planing in my forms. My great fortuneis a teacher who is patient to a fault with great hulking and clumbsy brutes like myself and I'm in no hurry. I have all winter after all tobuild my first split bamboo flyrod that will make _me_ happy. Enjoyment in working, accuracy, functionality and performance are my firstconcernswill be foremost. Looks will be of concern but secondary on this firstone. However, before getting out that old taper stick for setting up myforms, I still have build a new workbench in the area downstairs my wifehas most graciously donated for my mischief. Kindest Regards, Harley SilverVictus, libertas et possessio. Its really not any more complicated. from noblur@stic.net Thu Oct 21 19:42:03 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-60503U15500L11000S0V35) Subject: Re: A for real question about flaming rods Good advice on the torches, and I use a 4000 almost daily. Mapp gas is 3 =- times hotter than propane, so be warned ! I use Mapp gas to do =aluminum welding, as propane just doesn't get hot enough. There are =different defused types of nozzles that do not pin point the flame so =much. These should be much better for the flame treatment. I recall PHY speaking about his flame treatment allot, but not HOW it =was done ! Does anyone know of anything written on this ? What type of =gas did he use, that is no longer available ? This could give a clue to =the heat used for doing it ! GMA Sent: Thursday, October 21, 1999 7:26 PMSubject: Re: A for real question about flaming rods Mike - There are two torches that I use to flame bamboo with - one is a =turbotorch system that many pro plumber use and is available from most =wholesaleplumbing supply houses - About $125 and then an LP tank on top of =that. Thesecond and equally as good is The BernzOmatic model TS4000 - this =torch isself igniting anf screws onto the standard 14 oz LPG tank - The last Ibought was from the local hardware - at one time Builders Square had =thembut they are history now. The cost was $45 or so.As I cautioned earlier I feel that if the single flame inexpensive =toechis used that one could be flirting with danger.Another interesting sidenote - The Ts 4000 allows for use of =either LPGor MAPP gas - this is a slight difference in the brown hue of the =differentgases - To be exactly correct on restoration or reproductions - both =Youngand Payne used gases for flaming that are no longer available - seen =oftenin localized gas suppliers in earlier days. Hope this helps - fire =anotherquestion if you like Wayne Good advice on the torches, and I use a 4000 almost daily. = is 3 - times hotter than propane, so be warned ! I use Mapp gas to do = welding, as propane just doesn't get hot enough. There are different = types of nozzles that do not pin point the flame so much. These should = better for the flame treatment. I recall PHY speaking about his flame treatment allot, but = it was done ! Does anyone know of anything written on this ? What type = did he use, that is no longer available ? This could give a clue to the = used for doing it ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- Wayne = Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Thursday, October 21, = PMSubject: Re: A for real = flaming rods torches = use to flame bamboo with - one is a turbotorch system that many = plumber use and is available from most wholesaleplumbing supply = About $125 and then an LP tank on top of that. Thesecond and = good is The BernzOmatic model TS4000 - this torch isself igniting = screws onto the standard 14 oz LPG tank - The last Ibought was = local hardware - at one time Builders Square had thembut they are = feel that if the single flame inexpensive toechis used that one = Ts 4000 allows for use of either LPGor MAPP gas - this is a slight = difference in the brown hue of the differentgases - To be exactly = on restoration or reproductions - both Youngand Payne used gases = you likeWayne from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Thu Oct 21 20:07:39 1999 (5.5.2448.0) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: nodeless replies Bob,not quite sure on the angle but, the splicing blocks Tony and I usehave a gradient of 22:1. In other words, if the groove is 22cm long, itstarts at a depth of 1cm and slopes evenly to 0cm over that distance. Hope this helps Mike Roberts -----Original Message----- 2. What angles are you using for making your splicing blocks? from cattanac@wmis.net Thu Oct 21 20:10:18 1999 0000 Subject: Re: A for real question about flaming rods George -Paul had the famous - 'Ring of Fire - illustrated in Marty Keane's =book - classic rods and rodmakers Wayne George - illustrated in Marty Keane's book - classic rods and =rodmakers Wayne from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Oct 21 20:17:19 1999 Subject: Re: Advice sought. A fly on the wall told me that it takes 4 workers to produce 4 bastardsperweek, working full time. There is certainly no need to get paranoid justyet.I read a magazine article a few weeks ago where the author suggestedthat "90% of everything was crap". Think about it and all the stuff you have everpurchased over the years. hsilver@pyx.net wrote: Goodevening,I am new to this list and bamboo flyrod making. In fact, I've never madea flyrod in my life. I'm considering two differing approaches to buildinga split bamboo flyrod. So I was wondering if other list members mightadvise me on the two approaches to this; EITHER;I know people who make and own split bamboo flyrods, and even thoughI'venever watched the full process, I figure simply knowing others who havedone it is sufficient knowledge to do things myself. Sorta like a spouseof a professional that claims to know all about that profession becausethey sleep with a professional. After all, big companies used to makebamboo rods on production lines. I figure I could knock out the bestbamboo flyrod around pretty fast. Maybe a couple of weeks. After all,bamboo schmamboo. I know machinery and metal shop work and I figure Icould build my own production line. You know, knock out fifty or ahundredof those bamboo puppies every six hours. Have a plant running 24 hours aday in say, three shifts. Start up a complete line of bamboo rods allmanufactured by robots so they'd be perfect. These bamboo flyrods wouldbethe best sons of bitches in the flyrod world. Hey wait ! That's it ! I'd call my line of flyrods, Son's Of Bitches. It wouldn't even matter if I didn't know a culm of Tonkin cane from aspruce two by four. After all that's what the public wants, right ?Knocked out bamboo rods at say, 250 bux apiece cold hard cash. I'd berichin no time. What the hell does the public know about a flyrod anywaysandbesides, epoxy covers anything. No one would notice. I could make thebestrods in the world at that price and maybe even spam and get publicity from any and everything and get my name around. Good will and all thatauthentic handmade craftmanship of yesteryear is pure crap for loosers.What the hell did those old dead guys know anyways ? Who needs it?Thereare profits to be had today ! And its the bottom line that counts, right?Now one would know the difference. I could probably take over thebamboorod building world in six months. ! Why, my Son's Of Bitches would makeme famous! OR AS AN ALTERNATIVE APPROACH Carefully listen, ask questions, read and do my very best to take this onestep at a time. Understand what it is I am trying to accomplish beforestarting and not simply make it up as I go along. Attempt to build oneflyrod that I will be pleased with. Perhaps consider after finishing andusing my first flyrod, building a second flyrod down the road some timewhere I will be able to further master methods and techniques of splitbamboo flyrod building. But first and foremost, master the basics first, Understand I will be working with a natural material (ArundinariaAmabilus) that takes several years to get to a state before I can evenhandle it to start the process of flyrod building. At least attempt tounderstand the nature of this material and why it is the way it is. Aspecialized material of incredible natural strength that is neveruniform,has varying tone and can behave quite differently when two seeminglyindentical pieces of it are placed in front of me. Learn to be fullycomfortable with my own tools and fully understand the methods beforeworking and above all, not to rush things. I don't rush while at a troutstream so I would rush while building a flyrod ? Being careful and beingpatient always pays off. The more time I spend carefully crafting aflyrodto suit myself from clear instructions that I fully understand along withsome knowledgable hands to guide and help me get over the rough spotsandusing proven techniques, the more likely I'll end up with a flyrod Ipersonally will be pleased with. A flyrod, that although is my first andmight well have some blemishes, will have given me a learningopportunityand pleasure in its making. It will have given me introduction into acraft I may wish to persue further with enjoyment being my primemotivator. Along the way, if I learn something that I can pass along toothers in my endevors, perhaps I can build goodwill and friendships thatwill help me when I need it. Which would you advise me to choose ? Rainbow trout mousse anyone ? :) Regards, Harley SilverVictus, libertas et possessio. from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Thu Oct 21 20:23:06 1999 (5.5.2448.0) "Roberts, Michael","'bob@downandacross.com'",rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: nodeless rods Art,don't tell me things like that. It'll ruin my day. Seriouslythough, nodeless construction still negates the need for a special heattreating oven or, come to think of it, do you do that with a heat gun? Mike Mike,If you have a heat gun and soak, a 6' strip can be done in UNDER 5mins(believe it or not!). Art Some people will probably tell you that all the splicing will takeyou forever to finish but, on the other hand, node flattening andstraightening doesn't sound like a five minute job either. from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Oct 21 20:29:11 1999 Subject: Re: A for real question about flaming rods the heavy flaming technique was developed by Paul Young to hide the badlymarkedcane that they were left with after the picking over and picking overduring thecane embargo.These blackened marks seem to have taken on a magical property since fordifferent reasons. Mike Shaffer wrote: Guys,Having finished my blond rod (#1) I decided to try the flamed rodapproach.Well, I got the old trusty propane torch out and did the flaming. Now,maybe belatedly, I was wondering how to tell if I over-flamed the culm.Some, but not all of the enamel did pop up (I don't know how to describeit), and I never heated it to the point of burning.Does this sound like I'm at least in the ball park? I had to use mybernzomatic torch because it was all I had available.I did find though that the culm was a dream to split into strips comparedtothe blond rod! : ^)) Mike from freaner@gte.net Thu Oct 21 20:32:42 1999 Subject: RE: nodeless replies At 9:14 AM +0800 on 10/22/99, Roberts, Michael wrote: Bob,not quite sure on the angle but, the splicing blocks Tony and I usehave a gradient of 22:1. In other words, if the groove is 22cm long, itstarts at a depth of 1cm and slopes evenly to 0cm over that distance. A slope with a rise of 1cm in a run of 22cm is 2.6 degrees If you have Excel on your computer, the formula is =degrees(atan(1/22)) where 1 is the rise and 22 is the run - other numbers can be substituted. Claude from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Oct 21 20:40:46 1999 Subject: Re: Node question Flattening the node is a solution but after filing off that little furrybit the node cane be "turned inside out" with heat rather than crushing thefibers so that there is hardly any sign where the node was. An expert looks Harry Boyd wrote: Friends,After having built a few rods, I have finally figured out that oneof the trouble spots in the rods I'm building is that not every nodelooks identical in the finished rod. Some are darker, some lighter.Some even have a little enamel at the corners. I can deal with thoseproblems through taking a little more care in filing the nodes beforeflaming.One thing that becomes evident on really looking at the nodes isthat even after flattening and straightening with heat, the surface ofthe enamel just before and just after some nodes is irregularly shaped.This is hard to describe in words, but I could show you in just a fewseconds. Just above and below the node, there seems to be morecurvature to the enamel side of the strip, from side to side, not fromtip to butt. This ascii picture might help | || | |||||||| ( Node)||||| | | | I don't have any trouble getting the node straight, or flat, but inorder to get the bamboo level from side to side, I seem to have to sandaway quite a bit of the power fibers at the node and in the center ofthe strip just above and below the node. Doing so makes the node looknot one inch long, but more like one and three- quarters of an inch. Got any suggestions? (Other than going nodeless) My immediate all the way through the process to the point of removing enamel justbefore final planing. thanks in advance, Harry from mrj@aa.net Thu Oct 21 20:52:54 1999 Thu, 21 Oct 1999 18:52:45 -0700 Subject: RE: Conclusion to Improving Accuracy (Another question) I started by planing the enamel off when I was maybe .020 from thefinishedproduct. I now plane more of less when I get the two sides fairly even indimension. When this takes place depends on what the strip looks likewhen Istart.Some of them come n pretty quick and others take a little longer.Definitely by about .020 over the end result no matter what. Martin Jensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: October 21, 1999 4:09 AM Subject: Conclusion to Improving Accuracy (Another question) Thanks for the super response to my inquiry about improving accuracy.Most of you have suggested that the enamel is part of the problem. When should the enamel side be flattened??? Before final planing oraftergluing? The RM archives suggest that removal of enamel before gluing leads todamage to the sacred power fibers or finish defects from residual glue. Iimagine that the epoxy or urethane glues would be the worst in this regard(I am using URAC 185). The enamel, on the other hand, without flattening leaves a "crown" (likein a road) plus irregular surface scabs and lumps. If you calculate thecrown height for a butt spline, it come out to almost 6 mils. This is inaddition to the 2 to 3 mils enamel thickness. The crown error rapidlybecomes insignificant toward the tip, and you could correct the formsettings with some difficulty. (Anyone do this?) spline and they averaged out to a similar range on the glued blank. Ire- measured using a three-flute, mill-bit mic that can't crush the apex.Myangles tended to be a degree or less (acute) at the apex. I will respond to requests for the Lathe Attachment print, etc. latertoday by e-mail, off-list. The picture will be in an attached bmp file thatshould pose no virus threat. I haven't used it yet to fit ferrules 'cause Ijust ordered them. Tight lines all. started by planing the enamel off when I was maybe .020 from the = product. I now plane more of less when I get the two sides fairly even = dimension. When this takes place depends on what the strip looks like = Definitely by about .020 over the end result no matter =what. Martin Jensen rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Conclusion toImproving = (Another question)Thanks for the super response to= part of the problem. When should the enamel side The RM archives suggest that = before gluing leads to damage to the sacred power fibers or finish = the worst in this regard (I am using URAC 185). The enamel, on the other hand, = flattening leaves a "crown" (like in a road) plus irregular surface = depending on the spline and they averaged out to a similar range on = crush the apex. My angles tended to be a degree or less (acute) at the = apex. I will respond to requests for the Lathe = ferrules 'cause I just ordered them. Tight lines all. from mrj@aa.net Thu Oct 21 20:56:35 1999 Thu, 21 Oct 1999 18:56:20 -0700 Subject: RE: A for real question about flaming rods defuser. You will be too hot only if you use an oxe- acetylene torch. Idon't know about (what is it called) Map gas? Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: A for real question about flaming rods What kind of torch is best for flaming? I have an idea that your basic $14bernzomatic has a too-hot and concentrated flame. I've tried sears andlowe's, but I haven't seen anything that might allow you to output a broadyellowflame. Any specific suggestions? Thanks. Bill Hoy At 07:28 PM 10/20/1999 -0700, Martin Jensen wrote:Is the pith side of the culm darker? If it is then you could have overflamed it. from the sounds of it though, it doesn't sound like it. While Iflame my culm I really am tempering the bamboo. I run it over the flamefor10 minutes or so and it gradually turns darker. When I flame for themottledappearance I flame with just a hand held propane torch and I flame to achocolate brown. It really flames this dark quickly. When you are doneplaning you will remove some of the color as you plane just the surfaceofthe rind off. This will lighten the color so you want to flame a little toodark to start with. Pretty much I think that you have to try a piece andseehow it turns out and adjust accordingly. You know, there are just somethings that you need to try out in order to see how it works. Martin Jensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: October 20, 1999 6:01 PM Subject: A for real question about flaming rods Guys,Having finished my blond rod (#1) I decided to try the flamed rodapproach.Well, I got the old trusty propane torch out and did the flaming. Now,maybe belatedly, I was wondering how to tell if I over-flamed the culm.Some, but not all of the enamel did pop up (I don't know how to describeit), and I never heated it to the point of burning.Does this sound like I'm at least in the ball park? I had to use mybernzomatic torch because it was all I had available.I did find though that the culm was a dream to split into strips comparedtothe blond rod! : ^)) Mike * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Bill HoyBedford County Webmeister/PIOVA USAw.hoy@co.bedford.va.us(bhoy@inmind.com) from mrj@aa.net Thu Oct 21 21:00:15 1999 Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:00:08 -0700 Subject: RE: Stanley 9 1/2 plane I have a fairly recent Stanley G12 - 220? I think that is the 9 1/2. I haveabsolutely no problem adjusting it to cut .0005 inch. I have gone to thetrouble of flattening the sole and for my final planing I use a Hock blade. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Stanley 9 1/2 plane from what I have read and heard from others is dig up an old Stanley 91/2because the Record and New Stanley lack the fine tuning of the old Stanley91/2 I don't know how fine of cute they are talking about I have a Record 9 1/2that I use kdbrownlee@msn.com or kirk_brownlee@jdedwards.com -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Stanley 9 1/2 plane kirk, record has a 9 1/2 in production also. howdoes it compare to the old stanley? ...or anyoneelse? timothy --- "Brownlee, Kirk" wrote: The Stanley 9 1/2 is back but it is not the samequality that the Pre 1982??I think that was the date anything before 82 was amuch finer plane. Thanks,Kirk Brownlee kdbrownlee@msn.com orKirk_Brownlee@jdedwards.com -----Original Message-----From: timothy troester Sent: Thursday, October 21, 1999 10:15 AM Subject: stanley 9 1/2 plane greetings! i recieved my new garrett wade catalogyesterday and there was a stanley 9 1/2 listed withthe planes. it was around $50. it's been myunderstanding that the 9 1/2 was taken out ofproduction in the 60's, or sometime in the passed.ifthat is the case, stanley has the plane back inproduction. does this make us happy? timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Oct 21 21:11:58 1999 Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:11:47 -0700 Subject: Re: Node question Terry,Small, uniform nodes are what I'm after. Did a little figuring, and onthe rods I've built so far in my rodmaking, I've flattened / straightened /filed and fussed with a little over 1000 nodes, not counting those that Ihavescrewed up. What I'm trying to find out are some ways to get themsmaller andmore uniform. If, as you imply, flattening with pressure isn't the answer,then what is? Harry TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: Flattening the node is a solution but after filing off that little furrybit the node cane be "turned inside out" with heat rather than crushingthefibers so that there is hardly any sign where the node was. An expertlooks Harry Boyd wrote: Friends,After having built a few rods, I have finally figured out that oneof the trouble spots in the rods I'm building is that not every nodelooks identical in the finished rod. Some are darker, some lighter.Some even have a little enamel at the corners. I can deal with thoseproblems through taking a little more care in filing the nodes beforeflaming.One thing that becomes evident on really looking at the nodes isthat even after flattening and straightening with heat, the surface ofthe enamel just before and just after some nodes is irregularly shaped.This is hard to describe in words, but I could show you in just a fewseconds. Just above and below the node, there seems to be morecurvature to the enamel side of the strip, from side to side, not fromtip to butt. This ascii picture might help | || | > |||||||| ( Node)||||| | > | | I don't have any trouble getting the node straight, or flat, but inorder to get the bamboo level from side to side, I seem to have to sandaway quite a bit of the power fibers at the node and in the center ofthe strip just above and below the node. Doing so makes the node looknot one inch long, but more like one and three- quarters of an inch. Got any suggestions? (Other than going nodeless) My immediate all the way through the process to the point of removing enamel justbefore final planing. thanks in advance, Harry from mrj@aa.net Thu Oct 21 21:12:33 1999 Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:12:27 -0700 Subject: RE: A for real question about flaming rods I like to flame my rods for tempering. All this talk about flaming and myresponses has forced me to explain my definition of flaming a while back.Asyou say, flaming is really for cosmetic purposes and it is fairly easy witha propane torch. I built a large torch head and I use it to temper the canewith propane. It is a fairly slow process and I know when I am done by theamount of steam coming out of the bamboo, the color, and the smell(almonds,right?). It takes me at least 15 minutes or longer for a 4 foot section, andI think that I get pretty good results. When I do one end I flip it end forend. It is not as easy to document just when to stop or how long to holdthecane under the torch, but with trial and error I have become happy withtheresults. Most of the other steps in my rod building have pretty setdocumentation so one thing that is fairly "seat of the pants" is not toomuch to handle.Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: A for real question about flaming rods When I flame a rod it is purely for cosmetic purpose (I just like thatmottled, flamed look) and do not let that replace my heat treating process.I have been told by many that I am going a step too far, and that flamingtempers the cane properly, but my heat treating process is very defined asfar as temperature, (and evenness of temp throughout my oven) and theamountof time I temper the cane. I may be wrong, but to me, flaming is not anaccurate process and cannot replace heat treating in my oven. Anythoughts? Nunley -----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: A for real question about flaming rods Hi Mike,You pose an excellent question. It seems to me that if this hasn't alreadybeen analyzed and some objectivity applied to it via testing formechanicalproperties, it ought to be done. Surely a strip can be over- flamed orover-cooked, but the question is how does one know? Perhaps thedeflectiontest would be revealing. On the rods I have flamed I usually try to "tone"the rods lightly and not overdo it. My reaction to learning about theenamelpopping off is that the treatment may have been too severe in that area.It'll be interesting to read other responses in this regard.Ray----- Original Message -----From: Mike Shaffer Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 6:00 PMSubject: A for real question about flaming rods Guys,Having finished my blond rod (#1) I decided to try the flamed rodapproach.Well, I got the old trusty propane torch out and did the flaming. Now,maybe belatedly, I was wondering how to tell if I over-flamed the culm.Some, but not all of the enamel did pop up (I don't know how to describeit), and I never heated it to the point of burning.Does this sound like I'm at least in the ball park? I had to use mybernzomatic torch because it was all I had available.I did find though that the culm was a dream to split into stripscomparedtothe blond rod! : ^)) Mike from noblur@stic.net Thu Oct 21 21:15:26 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-60503U15500L11000S0V35) Subject: Re: A for real question about flaming rods Geez, I just received 3 more books, and that one isn't among any I have =! GMA Sent: Thursday, October 21, 1999 8:14 PMSubject: Re: A for real question about flaming rods George -Paul had the famous - 'Ring of Fire - illustrated in Marty Keane's =book - classic rods and rodmakers Wayne Geez, I just received 3 more books, and that one isn't = have ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- Wayne = ; mschaffer@mindspring.com Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Thursday, October 21, = PMSubject: Re: A for real = flaming rods George - = illustrated in Marty Keane's book - classic rods and =rodmakers Wayne from mrj@aa.net Thu Oct 21 21:24:10 1999 Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:23:44 -0700 Subject: RE: Advice sought. I call that the old "90 /10" rule. Sometimes I go as low as "80 /20". Wordsto live by! Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- ACKLAND Subject: Re: Advice sought. A fly on the wall told me that it takes 4 workers to produce 4 bastardsperweek, working full time. There is certainly no need to get paranoid justyet.I read a magazine article a few weeks ago where the author suggestedthat "90% of everything was crap". Think about it and all the stuff you have everpurchased over the years. hsilver@pyx.net wrote: Goodevening,I am new to this list and bamboo flyrod making. In fact, I've never madea flyrod in my life. I'm considering two differing approaches to buildinga split bamboo flyrod. So I was wondering if other list members mightadvise me on the two approaches to this; EITHER;I know people who make and own split bamboo flyrods, and even thoughI'venever watched the full process, I figure simply knowing others who havedone it is sufficient knowledge to do things myself. Sorta like a spouseof a professional that claims to know all about that profession becausethey sleep with a professional. After all, big companies used to makebamboo rods on production lines. I figure I could knock out the bestbamboo flyrod around pretty fast. Maybe a couple of weeks. After all,bamboo schmamboo. I know machinery and metal shop work and I figure Icould build my own production line. You know, knock out fifty or ahundredof those bamboo puppies every six hours. Have a plant running 24 hours aday in say, three shifts. Start up a complete line of bamboo rods allmanufactured by robots so they'd be perfect. These bamboo flyrods wouldbethe best sons of bitches in the flyrod world. Hey wait ! That's it ! I'd call my line of flyrods, Son's Of Bitches. It wouldn't even matter if I didn't know a culm of Tonkin cane from aspruce two by four. After all that's what the public wants, right ?Knocked out bamboo rods at say, 250 bux apiece cold hard cash. I'd berichin no time. What the hell does the public know about a flyrod anywaysandbesides, epoxy covers anything. No one would notice. I could make thebestrods in the world at that price and maybe even spam and get publicity from any and everything and get my name around. Good will and all thatauthentic handmade craftmanship of yesteryear is pure crap for loosers.What the hell did those old dead guys know anyways ? Who needs it?Thereare profits to be had today ! And its the bottom line that counts, right?Now one would know the difference. I could probably take over thebamboorod building world in six months. ! Why, my Son's Of Bitches would makeme famous! OR AS AN ALTERNATIVE APPROACH Carefully listen, ask questions, read and do my very best to take this onestep at a time. Understand what it is I am trying to accomplish beforestarting and not simply make it up as I go along. Attempt to build oneflyrod that I will be pleased with. Perhaps consider after finishing andusing my first flyrod, building a second flyrod down the road some timewhere I will be able to further master methods and techniques of splitbamboo flyrod building. But first and foremost, master the basics first, Understand I will be working with a natural material (ArundinariaAmabilus) that takes several years to get to a state before I can evenhandle it to start the process of flyrod building. At least attempt tounderstand the nature of this material and why it is the way it is. Aspecialized material of incredible natural strength that is neveruniform,has varying tone and can behave quite differently when two seeminglyindentical pieces of it are placed in front of me. Learn to be fullycomfortable with my own tools and fully understand the methods beforeworking and above all, not to rush things. I don't rush while at a troutstream so I would rush while building a flyrod ? Being careful and beingpatient always pays off. The more time I spend carefully crafting aflyrodto suit myself from clear instructions that I fully understand along withsome knowledgable hands to guide and help me get over the rough spotsandusing proven techniques, the more likely I'll end up with a flyrod Ipersonally will be pleased with. A flyrod, that although is my first andmight well have some blemishes, will have given me a learningopportunityand pleasure in its making. It will have given me introduction into acraft I may wish to persue further with enjoyment being my primemotivator. Along the way, if I learn something that I can pass along toothers in my endevors, perhaps I can build goodwill and friendships thatwill help me when I need it. Which would you advise me to choose ? Rainbow trout mousse anyone ? :) Regards, Harley SilverVictus, libertas et possessio. from flytyr@southshore.com Thu Oct 21 21:26:00 1999 Thu, 21 Oct 1999 21:23:13 -0500 Subject: Re: A for real question about flaming rods Saw these torches in Wal-Mart two days ago. Was thinking about gettingone. Ithink the price was about 39.00Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Wayne Cattanach wrote: Mike - . Thesecond and equally as good is The BernzOmatic model TS4000 - thistorch isself igniting anf screws onto the standard 14 oz LPG tank - The last Ibought was from the local hardware - at one time Builders Square hadthembut they are history now. The cost was $45 or so. Another interesting sidenote - The Ts 4000 allows for use of eitherLPGor MAPP gas - this is a slight difference in the brown hue of thedifferentgases - To be exactly correct on restoration or reproductions - bothYoungand Payne used gases for flaming that are no longer available - seenoftenin localized gas suppliers in earlier days. Hope this helps - fire anotherquestion if you like Wayne from noblur@stic.net Thu Oct 21 21:29:02 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-60503U15500L11000S0V35) , Subject: Re: A for real question about flaming rods I had never heard of Mapp gas either, until one summer, i watched a =lady, selling their welding rods. I then asked her if she would show me =her "tricks" ( no dirty comments now !) and she proceeded to tell me =about how much hotter Mapp gas was, that propane. I bought some of her =rods, and came home, to get a Mapp gas bottle. I then found the special =self-lighting torch head, and I've been repairing aluminum castings ever = A welding shop told me Mapp gas would soon be replaced by some other =type, but so far I can still get Mapp, at my hardware store. GMA Sent: Thursday, October 21, 1999 8:54 PMSubject: RE: A for real question about flaming rods tipdefuser. You will be too hot only if you use an oxe- acetylene torch. =Idon't know about (what is it called) Map gas? Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Sent: October 21, 1999 6:11 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: A for real question about flaming rods What kind of torch is best for flaming? I have an idea that your basic =$14bernzomatic has a too-hot and concentrated flame. I've tried sears andlowe's, but I haven't seen anything that might allow you to output a =broadyellowflame. Any specific suggestions? Thanks. Bill Hoy At 07:28 PM 10/20/1999 -0700, Martin Jensen wrote:Is the pith side of the culm darker? If it is then you could have =overflamed it. from the sounds of it though, it doesn't sound like it. =While Iflame my culm I really am tempering the bamboo. I run it over the =flame for10 minutes or so and it gradually turns darker. When I flame for themottledappearance I flame with just a hand held propane torch and I flame to =achocolate brown. It really flames this dark quickly. When you are =doneplaning you will remove some of the color as you plane just the =surface ofthe rind off. This will lighten the color so you want to flame a =little toodark to start with. Pretty much I think that you have to try a piece =andsee >how it turns out and adjust accordingly. You know, there are just =somethings that you need to try out in order to see how it works. Martin Jensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: October 20, 1999 6:01 PM Subject: A for real question about flaming rods Guys,Having finished my blond rod (#1) I decided to try the flamed rod =approach.Well, I got the old trusty propane torch out and did the flaming. =Now,maybe belatedly, I was wondering how to tell if I over-flamed the =culm.Some, but not all of the enamel did pop up (I don't know how to =describeit), and I never heated it to the point of burning.Does this sound like I'm at least in the ball park? I had to use mybernzomatic torch because it was all I had available.I did find though that the culm was a dream to split into strips =comparedtothe blond rod! : ^)) Mike * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Bill HoyBedford County Webmeister/PIOVA USAw.hoy@co.bedford.va.us(bhoy@inmind.com) I had never heard of Mapp gas either, until one summer, i = lady, selling their welding rods. I then asked her if she would show me = "tricks" ( no dirty comments now !) and she proceeded to tell me about = hotter Mapp gas was, that propane. I bought some of her rods, and came = and I've been repairing aluminum castings ever since ! A welding shop told me Mapp gas would soon be replaced by= store. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Martin Jensen = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Thursday, October 21, = PMSubject: RE: A for real = flaming rods find a tipdefuser. You will be too hot only if you use an oxe- = torch. Idon't know about (what is it called) Map = Jensen-----Original Message-----From: Bill Hoy = mschaffer@mindspring.com; =rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= RE: A for real question about flaming rodsWhat kind of = best for flaming? I have an idea that your basic $14bernzomatic = too-hot and concentrated flame. I've tried sears andlowe's, but I = seen anything that might allow you to output a = specific suggestions? Thanks.Bill HoyAt 07:28 PM = This will lighten the color so you want to flame a little = rodmakers@wugate.w= rodmakers@w= = belatedly, I was wondering how to tell if I over-flamed the = but not all of the enamel did pop up (I don't know how to = = * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Bill HoyBedford = Webmeister/PIOVA USAw.hoy@co.bedford.va.us(bhoy@inmind.com) from ROBERT.KOPE@prodigy.net Thu Oct 21 21:33:21 1999 Thu, 21 Oct 1999 22:33:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Node question John, I don't claim credit for inventing the technique. I know I heard about itsomewhere and it was probably from you. All I know is that it worksgreatand is soooo easy. -- Robert-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Node question At 06:46 PM 10/20/1999 -0700, ROBT-MARY KOPE wrote: before you press it in a vise to flatten the nodes. To accomplish this Iuse a simple jig with a small sanding drum in my drill press. After filing the ridges from the outside of the nodes and knocking thediaphragms from the inside, I split into strips and then run the stripsoverthe sanding drum. My jig is simply a wood screw in a block of wood thatIclamp to the drill press table just a little further from a 1 inchdiametersanding drum than the thickness of the strip in between nodes. Then Ipullthe strips through with the pith side against the sanding drum and theenamel against the wood screw. This sands the surface of the pithperfectlyparallel to the enamel side for a couple of inches on either side of thenodes, and only takes a few seconds per strip. It sure beats filing the pith and makes flattening nodes a snap. Just my $.02 Robert Kope Robert;Geez, and here I thought that i invented this technique. I guess thereis nothing new under the sun after all.John from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Oct 21 21:35:51 1999 Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:35:40 -0700 Subject: Re: Node question Stuart,I don't know how much pressure a hydraulic press exerts, but it ISpossibleto get too much. Even a big machinist's vise can crush nodes. Bet you canguess how I learned that, can't you? :-) I use three different vises atdifferent times. 1. A cheap woodworking vise with 7" jaws and not much leverage. Don'task methe brand name -- I've had it for more than 20 years and paid about $20 foritlong ago. I use it to straighten long sweeps at the nodes.2. A 3" Pony clamp on the desk vise, with jaws hack-sawed off to 2" -againnot much leverage. Used to press just the node and a little on each side.3. A 3" el cheapo ($13) drill press vise from Sears. This is my currentfavorite. But it has tremendous leverage, so you have to be careful not tosmash the strips. I mounted it on the workbench so that it's easilyaccessible. Some folks on this list who are mechanically inclined may well havecome upwith a way to use hydraulic pressure. Ray Gould's book has an ingeniouslooking device for flattening and straightening strips and nodes. I'd lovetolook at the real thing and not just a picture. If I ever get to theNorthwest,I'll drop in on Ray and look it over!! Hope this helps,Harry Turbotrk@aol.com wrote: How much pressure is too much? I have node problems also. I waswonderingif a hydrolic press would be too much. Has anyone tried this? Just athought. I have worn out one vise after three rods. stuart from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Oct 21 21:38:21 1999 Subject: Re: Advice sought. I think you could safely bet on the 99/1 on what transpires on theinformationhighway.Almost 100% bullshit!Terry Martin Jensen wrote: I call that the old "90 /10" rule. Sometimes I go as low as "80 /20".Wordsto live by! Martin Jensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu ACKLANDSent: October 21, 1999 6:21 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Advice sought. A fly on the wall told me that it takes 4 workers to produce 4 bastardsperweek, working full time. There is certainly no need to get paranoid justyet.I read a magazine article a few weeks ago where the author suggestedthat "90% of everything was crap". Think about it and all the stuff you haveeverpurchased over the years. hsilver@pyx.net wrote: Goodevening,I am new to this list and bamboo flyrod making. In fact, I've never madea flyrod in my life. I'm considering two differing approaches to buildinga split bamboo flyrod. So I was wondering if other list members mightadvise me on the two approaches to this; EITHER;I know people who make and own split bamboo flyrods, and even thoughI'venever watched the full process, I figure simply knowing others whohavedone it is sufficient knowledge to do things myself. Sorta like a spouseof a professional that claims to know all about that profession becausethey sleep with a professional. After all, big companies used to makebamboo rods on production lines. I figure I could knock out the bestbamboo flyrod around pretty fast. Maybe a couple of weeks. After all,bamboo schmamboo. I know machinery and metal shop work and I figureIcould build my own production line. You know, knock out fifty or ahundredof those bamboo puppies every six hours. Have a plant running 24 hoursaday in say, three shifts. Start up a complete line of bamboo rods allmanufactured by robots so they'd be perfect. These bamboo flyrodswould bethe best sons of bitches in the flyrod world. Hey wait ! That's it ! I'd call my line of flyrods, Son's Of Bitches. It wouldn't even matter if I didn't know a culm of Tonkin cane from aspruce two by four. After all that's what the public wants, right ?Knocked out bamboo rods at say, 250 bux apiece cold hard cash. I'd berichin no time. What the hell does the public know about a flyrod anywaysandbesides, epoxy covers anything. No one would notice. I could make thebestrods in the world at that price and maybe even spam and get publicity from any and everything and get my name around. Good will and all thatauthentic handmade craftmanship of yesteryear is pure crap forloosers.What the hell did those old dead guys know anyways ? Who needs it?Thereare profits to be had today ! And its the bottom line that counts, right?Now one would know the difference. I could probably take over thebamboorod building world in six months. ! Why, my Son's Of Bitches wouldmakeme famous! OR AS AN ALTERNATIVE APPROACH Carefully listen, ask questions, read and do my very best to take thisonestep at a time. Understand what it is I am trying to accomplish beforestarting and not simply make it up as I go along. Attempt to build oneflyrod that I will be pleased with. Perhaps consider after finishing andusing my first flyrod, building a second flyrod down the road some timewhere I will be able to further master methods and techniques of splitbamboo flyrod building. But first and foremost, master the basics first, Understand I will be working with a natural material (ArundinariaAmabilus) that takes several years to get to a state before I can evenhandle it to start the process of flyrod building. At least attempt tounderstand the nature of this material and why it is the way it is. Aspecialized material of incredible natural strength that is neveruniform,has varying tone and can behave quite differently when two seeminglyindentical pieces of it are placed in front of me. Learn to be fullycomfortable with my own tools and fully understand the methodsbeforeworking and above all, not to rush things. I don't rush while at a troutstream so I would rush while building a flyrod ? Being careful andbeingpatient always pays off. The more time I spend carefully crafting aflyrodto suit myself from clear instructions that I fully understand alongwithsome knowledgable hands to guide and help me get over the rough spotsandusing proven techniques, the more likely I'll end up with a flyrod Ipersonally will be pleased with. A flyrod, that although is my first andmight well have some blemishes, will have given me a learningopportunityand pleasure in its making. It will have given me introduction into acraft I may wish to persue further with enjoyment being my primemotivator. Along the way, if I learn something that I can pass along toothers in my endevors, perhaps I can build goodwill and friendshipsthatwill help me when I need it. Which would you advise me to choose ? Rainbow trout mousse anyone ? :) Regards, Harley SilverVictus, libertas et possessio. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Oct 21 21:58:06 1999 Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:57:44 +0800 Subject: Re: Lathe If by turning ferrules you mean dressing them then yes the Sherline willdothe job of that and turning handles, however if you want to make ferrulesyou'd best try for a bigger lathe. The Sherline is plenty accuratetechnicaly speaking but it certainly dosn't do as good a job as a largermachine will.I have a Sherline lathe and like it a lot but don't use it anymore aftergetting the lathe I should have originaly bought. I now use the Sherlinelathe as a mill which is a nice thing about it being able to getattachments to multi task it. Tony At 06:37 PM 10/21/99 -0500, John Collier wrote:Which lathe is the best for turning cork & ferrules? Is the Sherline 3"bigenough? I'm on a limited budget (college student) so your help isGREATLYappreciated! John Collier /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Oct 21 21:58:38 1999 Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:58:18 +0800 Subject: Re: nodeless replies 1) Don't know2) 22:1 Tony At 07:36 PM 10/21/99 -0700, bob maulucci wrote:Thanks to everyone for their help on my nodeless quest. So far, so good.Two quickies though:1. What happened to Munro? John L. doesn't respond to inquiries from his site anymore. Is he in the moving stage?2. What angles are you using for making your splicing blocks? Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com productionswebsite, audio, and print designhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbob@downandacross.com /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Thu Oct 21 22:08:29 1999 mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net +0000 Subject: Re: A for real question about flaming rods I am just at the stage of planing scrap cane and perfecting sharpeningskills, but I flamed half of my practice culm with my trusty one burnerColeman stove(white gas). Anyone see a problem using this kind of stove Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from flytyr@southshore.com Thu Oct 21 22:29:27 1999 Subject: Want to be rodmakers I hope I don't get stomped on for this message.I was intimidated about making bamboo rods fornine years because of all that I read and heard.The glue lines, twists, bends, tempering, nodes,heat treating oven, planes, hock blades, 6000 gritsharpening stones, planing forms, and the listgoes on. I spent nine years trying to get thesethings so I can start making rods.Wayne convinced me I could make my metal forms, soI did. Took me four evenings. Other than drillingand tapping I used a Vixen file and a trianglefile to make them. Made my binder in one day andoven in a few days.What I am trying to say is these things can bedone and not take a lifetime to do.I have a plane that came from Sears about 45 yearsago, I don't even use the 9 1/2. don't feel asgood as the old Sears. I have not used the 6000stone for sharpening yet, I am still using the3.50 stone I got at a flea market. I don't knowwhat angle I sharpened the blade at, it just cutsgood. The oven was made from some insulated panelscut out of metal insulated doors.I made a Garrison type binder with a few minorchanges and have no problems that I can see. finish on the gluing surfaces are real smooth as Ican scrape right down to the planing form. I have8 rod blanks and 2 completed rods made and see noglue lines. This was my biggest worry that theglue lines would stand out like a sore thumb.These rods and blanks were made over a period ofthree months. I did have a problem with splittingmy first culm. It did not take long to rectifythat. I even went back to the scrap and salvagedmost of it after I learned to split 32 strips fromthe top section of a culm. It only took one culmto learn.Now I know I will get some flack, the glue isElmers Exterior Carpenters Glue. I did some testson it am satisfied that the rods will staytogether. I have over 50 fish on rod # 1 and ithas been soaked several times. OK these rods arenot being sold, they are gifts so I can take achance on the glue. If I ever decide to sell someI will look into another type of glue. I have hadno problem with short working time. I have had notwisting and the blanks are straight. Maybe I havebeen lucky so far.This is it, if you are intimidated like I wasforget it and start making rods. I guess what I amtrying to say is, you don't need that fancy plane,blade, stone, scraper ect. That can come later,get started with what you have if you want to makea rod..Wow, I have it off my chest now.Someone said it a little stronger in a previousmessage, the only way to learn is to do it.BTW, these rods amaze me the way they cast andhandle line.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Oct 21 22:44:07 1999 Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:43:32 +0800 Subject: Re: Want to be rodmakers Well done, I've long thought certain books have scared more people offtrying than they've helped because of undue concerns. Tony At 10:27 PM 10/21/99 -0500, Tony Spezio wrote:I hope I don't get stomped on for this message.I was intimidated about making bamboo rods fornine years because of all that I read and heard.The glue lines, twists, bends, tempering, nodes,heat treating oven, planes, hock blades, 6000 gritsharpening stones, planing forms, and the listgoes on. I spent nine years trying to get thesethings so I can start making rods.Wayne convinced me I could make my metal forms, soI did. Took me four evenings. Other than drillingand tapping I used a Vixen file and a trianglefile to make them. Made my binder in one day andoven in a few days.What I am trying to say is these things can bedone and not take a lifetime to do.I have a plane that came from Sears about 45 yearsago, I don't even use the 9 1/2. don't feel asgood as the old Sears. I have not used the 6000stone for sharpening yet, I am still using the3.50 stone I got at a flea market. I don't knowwhat angle I sharpened the blade at, it just cutsgood. The oven was made from some insulated panelscut out of metal insulated doors.I made a Garrison type binder with a few minorchanges and have no problems that I can see. finish on the gluing surfaces are real smooth as Ican scrape right down to the planing form. I have8 rod blanks and 2 completed rods made and see noglue lines. This was my biggest worry that theglue lines would stand out like a sore thumb.These rods and blanks were made over a period ofthree months. I did have a problem with splittingmy first culm. It did not take long to rectifythat. I even went back to the scrap and salvagedmost of it after I learned to split 32 strips fromthe top section of a culm. It only took one culmto learn.Now I know I will get some flack, the glue isElmers Exterior Carpenters Glue. I did some testson it am satisfied that the rods will staytogether. I have over 50 fish on rod # 1 and ithas been soaked several times. OK these rods arenot being sold, they are gifts so I can take achance on the glue. If I ever decide to sell someI will look into another type of glue. I have hadno problem with short working time. I have had notwisting and the blanks are straight. Maybe I havebeen lucky so far.This is it, if you are intimidated like I wasforget it and start making rods. I guess what I amtrying to say is, you don't need that fancy plane,blade, stone, scraper ect. That can come later,get started with what you have if you want to makea rod..Wow, I have it off my chest now.Someone said it a little stronger in a previousmessage, the only way to learn is to do it.BTW, these rods amaze me the way they cast andhandle line.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from hsilver@pyx.net Thu Oct 21 23:05:53 1999 Subject: Re: Advice sought. On Thu, 21 Oct 1999, TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: A fly on the wall told me that it takes 4 workers to produce 4 bastardsperweek, working full time. There is certainly no need to get paranoid justyet.I read a magazine article a few weeks ago where the author suggestedthat "90% of everything was crap". Think about it and all the stuff you haveeverpurchased over the years. Four bastards per week ? If I had chosen the route of Door Number One,I could have seen those bastards and raised more Son's Of Bitches. [Badpoker pun intended but irrelavent.] If one is prudent and choosey about what one buys, one only has to buyonce. Sorta like measure twice, cut once. The initial costs may be higher,but over the long run, it saves money, in my opinion. Besides, I read hisentire web page (bottom up of course) and got the story straight from thehorse's...err...straight from the author. Regards, Harley SilverVictus, libertas et possessio. Its really not any more complicated. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Oct 21 23:45:46 1999 Fri, 22 Oct 1999 12:45:27 +0800 Subject: Re: Advice sought. You know 4 per week to that standard isn't very many at all. I'd havethought at least 8-10 for 4 people full time for these rods. Possibly themachinery is not much help and they'd be better off planing? Tony At 12:05 AM 10/22/99 -0400, hsilver@pyx.net wrote: On Thu, 21 Oct 1999, TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: A fly on the wall told me that it takes 4 workers to produce 4 bastardsperweek, working full time. There is certainly no need to get paranoid justyet.I read a magazine article a few weeks ago where the author suggestedthat "90% of everything was crap". Think about it and all the stuff you haveeverpurchased over the years. Four bastards per week ? If I had chosen the route of Door Number One,I could have seen those bastards and raised more Son's Of Bitches. [Badpoker pun intended but irrelavent.] If one is prudent and choosey about what one buys, one only has to buyonce. Sorta like measure twice, cut once. The initial costs may be higher,but over the long run, it saves money, in my opinion. Besides, I read hisentire web page (bottom up of course) and got the story straight from thehorse's...err...straight from the author. Regards, Harley SilverVictus, libertas et possessio. Its really not any more complicated. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Oct 22 00:27:28 1999 Subject: An apology Friends,Someone pointed out to me, off-list, that I recently gave an answerto an honest and well-meaning question on this list that may havedampened the excitement of a newcomer to rodbuilding. I would neverintentionally take the wind out of the sails of anyone who asks aquestion.I have apologized privately to the only person I remember giving ashort answer to lately. If I offended others with my response, pleaseaccept my apology. Please don't respond to this on the list. Harry Boyd from flyman35@home.com Fri Oct 22 00:28:11 1999 Subject: 2-tip construction i have always wondered why cane rods ae built with two tips. is it forinsurance in case of rod failure or does each tip have a different taperwhich provides different rod action?thanks-matt from Fallcreek9@aol.com Fri Oct 22 04:40:19 1999 Subject: Re: Node question In a message dated 10/21/99 6:20:33 AM Central Daylight Time, saltwein@swbell.net writes: Steve: Thanks for the hororable mention. Want to point out that in any comments I've made, credit for the idea was always given to who I thinkis the originator of wet straightening, John Bokstrom, one of the icons of our gentle obsession. RTyree from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Oct 22 07:33:52 1999 1999 05:28:48 PDT Subject: taper? greetings! i am looking for a heddon #14featherweight taper. i believe it takes a 4wt dtline. can anyone help me out? timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from bhoy@inmind.com Fri Oct 22 08:11:05 1999 Fri, 22 Oct 1999 08:44:49 -0400 "rod 'akers" Subject: RE: Stanley 9 1/2 plane Record now has a 9 1/2 that I haven't seen, but it is reportedly a littlebetter than the stanley G 220-12, the new name for the 9 1/2. Both aremadein England. I have a vintage 9 1/2 from about 1950 that is somewhat lighter andslightly smaller than the new stanley. It fits my hand better and I likethe construction and the patina of the old tools. I have a Stanley #18 fromabout 1935 on order, which is the same as a 9 1/2 but with a knuckle jointlever cap. If anybody wants to date their older 9 1/2 or #18, I have a copy of JohnWalters Stanley tools book. I can try to scan the block plane studies andmake them available as a pdf file if anyone is interested. Block planesare very hard to date because the basic pattern was set down in the 1880sto early 1900s and only VERY slight variations were made in year-by- yearproduction. BTW, if you are going to buy a new stanley, DON'T go to Garrett Wade, youcan get a G 220-12 from Lowes for about 30-35$. I think the Alden'scataloghas them in that price range too. Bill Hoy kirk, record has a 9 1/2 in production also. howdoes it compare to the old stanley? ...or anyoneelse? timothy --- "Brownlee, Kirk" wrote: The Stanley 9 1/2 is back but it is not the samequality that the Pre 1982??I think that was the date anything before 82 was amuch finer plane. Thanks,Kirk Brownlee kdbrownlee@msn.com orKirk_Brownlee@jdedwards.com -----Original Message-----From: timothy troester Sent: Thursday, October 21, 1999 10:15 AM Subject: stanley 9 1/2 plane greetings! i recieved my new garrett wade catalogyesterday and there was a stanley 9 1/2 listed withthe planes. it was around $50. it's been myunderstanding that the 9 1/2 was taken out ofproduction in the 60's, or sometime in the passed. ifthat is the case, stanley has the plane back inproduction. does this make us happy? timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Bill HoyBedford County Webmeister/PIOVA USAw.hoy@co.bedford.va.us(bhoy@inmind.com) from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Oct 22 08:21:10 1999 Fri, 22 Oct 1999 06:21:05 -0700 Subject: Re: taper? --------------E273303083B9089553DE7446 Timothy, Below is Don Burns' post from some time ago. I'm not sure this isexactly what you're looking for. If you get others, would you mindforwarding them? Harrry Boyd Here's my best guess of the correct taper for the Heddon 1-3/4F -- 3piece rod taper. I threw out the 0.076" reading on the 1" point but itdidn't make much of a difference. Don Burns Taper for 8' Heddon 1-3/4F (3 piece rod) 0 -- * not measured - recontoured for tiptop mounting.1 -- 0.0835 -- 0.09710 -- 0.11415 -- 0.12620 -- 0.13525 -- 0.14930 --0.160 35 -- 0.17240 -- 0.18745 -- 0.20550 -- 0.22055 -- 0.23460 -- 0.250 65 -- * not measured66 -- 0.26370 -- 0.27675 -- 0.28880 -- 0.29985 -- Swelled butt ~0.400 timothy troester wrote: greetings! i am looking for a heddon #14featherweight taper. i believe it takes a 4wt dtline. can anyone help me out? timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com --------------E273303083B9089553DE7446 Timothy, others, would you mind forwarding them? Here's my best guess of the correct taper for the Heddon 1-3/4F --3piece rod taper. I threw out the 0.076" reading on the 1" pointbut itdidn't make much of a difference.Don BurnsTaper for 8' Heddon 1-3/4F (3 piece rod) mounting. 10 -- 0.11415 -- 0.12620 -- 0.13525 -- 0.149 35 -- 0.17240 -- 0.18745 -- 0.20550 -- 0.22055 -- 0.23460 -- 0.25065 -- * not measured66 -- 0.26370 -- 0.27675 -- 0.28880 -- 0.299 timothy troester wrote: #14 ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com --------------E273303083B9089553DE7446-- from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Oct 22 08:44:46 1999 1999 06:39:43 PDT Subject: Re: taper? i'm not sure this is it. i need to do somecomparison. i believe ther were two #14's one was thefeather weight. i'll be happy to forward any heddontapers i recieve. thanks! timothy --- Harry Boyd wrote:Timothy, Below is Don Burns' post from some time ago. I'm not sure this isexactly what you're looking for. If you get others,would you mindforwarding them? ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from bdavid@umich.edu Fri Oct 22 09:06:54 1999 with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:06:49 -0400 Subject: Re: A for real question about flaming rods Actually there is a picture of PHY flaming a rod with this technique onthe PHY Rod Co web page. It's not a very good picture but you can getthe general idea about how it was done... http://www.gtii.com/paulyoung/ Click on the tempering link... David A. Berrie Application Programming/Development University of MichiganMedical Center Information TechnologyAnn Arbor, MI 48109-0704(734) 647-0509bdavid@umich.edu "George M. Aldrich" 10/21/99 10:14PM >>>Geez, I just received 3 more books, and that one isn't among any I have! GMA----- Original Message ----- From: Wayne Cattanach Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, October 21, 1999 8:14 PMSubject: Re: A for real question about flaming rods George -Paul had the famous - 'Ring of Fire - illustrated in MartyKeane's book - classic rods and rodmakers Wayne from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri Oct 22 09:11:38 1999 HAA01406; (5.5.2448.0) mschaffer@mindspring.com, "'cattanac@wmis.net'" Subject: RE: A for real question about flaming rods here is a picture of P.Y. ring of fire. http://www.gtii.com/paulyoung/temperin1.htm Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Thursday, October 21, 1999 6:14 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: A for real question about flaming rods George -Paul had the famous - 'Ring of Fire - illustrated in Marty Keane's book- classicrods and rodmakers Wayne from noblur@stic.net Fri Oct 22 09:12:24 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-60503U15500L11000S0V35) Subject: Re: An apology No offense taken at all ! I hesitate to ask very much, that's pretty =mundane to most, as I'm just now finding time to tackle making a cane =rod. I'm semi- retired, but have been working in wood, and metal, since =the early 1940's, when I built I.D. models in the "war effort". I've =fished most of my life, and fell in"love" with cane, over 50 years ago, =and that has never left me. Like a beautiful over and under, they will =always have the special appeal. I find I need a break from my everyday =machine shop work, and will start by making my own ferrules, in better =way. Next, is accumulating the few odd tools I don't already have. It just takes time, for the books to come, and then to read them. I'm =impatient for knowledge ! GMA Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 12:29 AMSubject: An apology Friends,Someone pointed out to me, off-list, that I recently gave an =answerto an honest and well-meaning question on this list that may havedampened the excitement of a newcomer to rodbuilding. I would neverintentionally take the wind out of the sails of anyone who asks aquestion.I have apologized privately to the only person I remember giving =ashort answer to lately. If I offended others with my response, pleaseaccept my apology. Please don't respond to this on the list. Harry Boyd No offense taken at all ! I hesitate to ask very much, = pretty mundane to most, as I'm just now finding time to tackle making a = rod. I'm semi-retired, but have been working in wood, and metal, since = 1940's, when I built I.D. models in the "war effort". I've fished most = life, and fell in"love" with cane, over 50 years ago, and that has never = me. Like a beautiful over and under, they will always have the special = find I need a break from my everyday machine shop work, and will start = my own ferrules, in better way. Next, is accumulating the few odd tools = already have. It just takes time, for the books to come, and then to read = I'm impatient for knowledge ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- Harry = = Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 = AMSubject: An apology = off-list, that I recently gave an answerto an honest and = question on this list that may havedampened the excitement of a = = apologized privately to the only person I remember giving ashort = Boyd from punky@integratedmillsystems.com Fri Oct 22 09:25:18 1999 59.ix.netcom.com Subject: Munro Rod Company (Was: nodeless replies) There were some questions raised recently as to the status of Jon Lintvetand the Munro Rod Company. Apparently he is still in business. I hadcalled and left a phone message. I didn't receive a reply, so I went aheadand emailed an order to the company. I waited a couple of days but didn'treceive a reply to that message either. So I sent another message tocancelthe order yesterday. I received a reply today, so I guess I just need to bea little more patient. Keith -----Original Message-- Subject: nodeless replies Thanks to everyone for their help on my nodeless quest. So far, so good.Two quickies though: 1. What happened to Munro? John L. doesn't respond to inquiries from hissite anymore. Is he in the moving stage? from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Oct 22 09:32:04 1999 Subject: Re: Sir D? Ok I keep hearing about this Sir D Rod on the list... So what is it? Whats the length, Taper, Line wieght.... and I also saw a couple comments about nodeless can it be built with nodes? First a little background on the moniker Sir D. About 2 years ago JohnCooperin England had a rod making problem - I have forgotten what it was - and Isuggested an answer. It worked so well, and John was so grateful he"Knighted"me Sir Darryl of The List. The members of this list picked up on the nametothe extent that Wayne Cattanach renamed a rod that I am always ravingabout, his 7 ft. 2 piece 4 wt. the "Sir Darryl Favorite". I have made some minormodsto the taper - adding .002 to the 5 10 and 15 inch stations because the stress curve goes so high at that point, but the taper is Wayne's, not mine. Darryl from gholland@navsys.com Fri Oct 22 09:51:51 1999 Subject: Off topic.....was Advice Sought Martin - What you're referring to is called "Paretto's Principle" or the 80/20 ruleand it is amazing how many things in life it really applies to! Regards, Greg Holland -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Advice sought. I call that the old "90 /10" rule. Sometimes I go as low as "80 /20". Wordsto live by! Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- ACKLAND Subject: Re: Advice sought. A fly on the wall told me that it takes 4 workers to produce 4 bastardsperweek, working full time. There is certainly no need to get paranoid justyet.I read a magazine article a few weeks ago where the author suggestedthat "90% of everything was crap". Think about it and all the stuff you have everpurchased over the years. hsilver@pyx.net wrote: Goodevening,I am new to this list and bamboo flyrod making. In fact, I've never madea flyrod in my life. I'm considering two differing approaches to buildinga split bamboo flyrod. So I was wondering if other list members mightadvise me on the two approaches to this; EITHER;I know people who make and own split bamboo flyrods, and even thoughI'venever watched the full process, I figure simply knowing others who havedone it is sufficient knowledge to do things myself. Sorta like a spouseof a professional that claims to know all about that profession becausethey sleep with a professional. After all, big companies used to makebamboo rods on production lines. I figure I could knock out the bestbamboo flyrod around pretty fast. Maybe a couple of weeks. After all,bamboo schmamboo. I know machinery and metal shop work and I figure Icould build my own production line. You know, knock out fifty or ahundredof those bamboo puppies every six hours. Have a plant running 24 hours aday in say, three shifts. Start up a complete line of bamboo rods allmanufactured by robots so they'd be perfect. These bamboo flyrods wouldbethe best sons of bitches in the flyrod world. Hey wait ! That's it ! I'd call my line of flyrods, Son's Of Bitches. It wouldn't even matter if I didn't know a culm of Tonkin cane from aspruce two by four. After all that's what the public wants, right ?Knocked out bamboo rods at say, 250 bux apiece cold hard cash. I'd berichin no time. What the hell does the public know about a flyrod anywaysandbesides, epoxy covers anything. No one would notice. I could make thebestrods in the world at that price and maybe even spam and get publicity from any and everything and get my name around. Good will and all thatauthentic handmade craftmanship of yesteryear is pure crap for loosers.What the hell did those old dead guys know anyways ? Who needs it?Thereare profits to be had today ! And its the bottom line that counts, right?>Now one would know the difference. I could probably take over the bamboorod building world in six months. ! Why, my Son's Of Bitches would makeme famous! OR AS AN ALTERNATIVE APPROACH Carefully listen, ask questions, read and do my very best to take this onestep at a time. Understand what it is I am trying to accomplish beforestarting and not simply make it up as I go along. Attempt to build oneflyrod that I will be pleased with. Perhaps consider after finishing andusing my first flyrod, building a second flyrod down the road some timewhere I will be able to further master methods and techniques of splitbamboo flyrod building. But first and foremost, master the basics first, Understand I will be working with a natural material (ArundinariaAmabilus) that takes several years to get to a state before I can evenhandle it to start the process of flyrod building. At least attempt tounderstand the nature of this material and why it is the way it is. Aspecialized material of incredible natural strength that is neveruniform,has varying tone and can behave quite differently when two seeminglyindentical pieces of it are placed in front of me. Learn to be fullycomfortable with my own tools and fully understand the methods beforeworking and above all, not to rush things. I don't rush while at a troutstream so I would rush while building a flyrod ? Being careful and beingpatient always pays off. The more time I spend carefully crafting aflyrodto suit myself from clear instructions that I fully understand along withsome knowledgable hands to guide and help me get over the rough spotsandusing proven techniques, the more likely I'll end up with a flyrod Ipersonally will be pleased with. A flyrod, that although is my first andmight well have some blemishes, will have given me a learningopportunityand pleasure in its making. It will have given me introduction into acraft I may wish to persue further with enjoyment being my primemotivator. Along the way, if I learn something that I can pass along toothers in my endevors, perhaps I can build goodwill and friendships thatwill help me when I need it. Which would you advise me to choose ? Rainbow trout mousse anyone ? :) Regards, Harley SilverVictus, libertas et possessio. from watson@cape-consult.co.uk Fri Oct 22 11:24:31 1999 (BST) Subject: Cork Turning Can you machine cork in a lathe?Yes I know I can put the handle in the lathe and sand it down but has =anyone tried to rough cut it to shape with a tool bit? I suspect that =it will tear but what happens if you take the speed up?With a 27" handle to shape it would make life easier?ThanksTim. Can you machine cork in a lathe?Yes I know I can put the handle in the lathe and = that it will tear but what happens if you take the speed =up?With a 27" handle to shape it would make easier?ThanksTim. from stpete@netten.net Fri Oct 22 11:41:18 1999 Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:46:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Want to be rodmakers Here! Here! I second the motion! All wanna be rodmakers are herebycommanded to get off there duff and make a rod. THEN worry about therest of the stuff. I couldn't agree more. Good Advice Tony. Rick Tony Spezio wrote: I hope I don't get stomped on for this message.I was intimidated about making bamboo rods fornine years because of all that I read and heard.The glue lines, twists, bends, tempering, nodes,heat treating oven, planes, hock blades, 6000 gritsharpening stones, planing forms, and the listgoes on. I spent nine years trying to get thesethings so I can start making rods.Wayne convinced me I could make my metal forms, soI did. Took me four evenings. Other than drillingand tapping I used a Vixen file and a trianglefile to make them. Made my binder in one day andoven in a few days.What I am trying to say is these things can bedone and not take a lifetime to do.I have a plane that came from Sears about 45 yearsago, I don't even use the 9 1/2. don't feel asgood as the old Sears. I have not used the 6000stone for sharpening yet, I am still using the3.50 stone I got at a flea market. I don't knowwhat angle I sharpened the blade at, it just cutsgood. The oven was made from some insulated panelscut out of metal insulated doors.I made a Garrison type binder with a few minorchanges and have no problems that I can see. finish on the gluing surfaces are real smooth as Ican scrape right down to the planing form. I have8 rod blanks and 2 completed rods made and see noglue lines. This was my biggest worry that theglue lines would stand out like a sore thumb.These rods and blanks were made over a period ofthree months. I did have a problem with splittingmy first culm. It did not take long to rectifythat. I even went back to the scrap and salvagedmost of it after I learned to split 32 strips fromthe top section of a culm. It only took one culmto learn.Now I know I will get some flack, the glue isElmers Exterior Carpenters Glue. I did some testson it am satisfied that the rods will staytogether. I have over 50 fish on rod # 1 and ithas been soaked several times. OK these rods arenot being sold, they are gifts so I can take achance on the glue. If I ever decide to sell someI will look into another type of glue. I have hadno problem with short working time. I have had notwisting and the blanks are straight. Maybe I havebeen lucky so far.This is it, if you are intimidated like I wasforget it and start making rods. I guess what I amtrying to say is, you don't need that fancy plane,blade, stone, scraper ect. That can come later,get started with what you have if you want to makea rod..Wow, I have it off my chest now.Someone said it a little stronger in a previousmessage, the only way to learn is to do it.BTW, these rods amaze me the way they cast andhandle line.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Oct 22 11:43:03 1999 Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:42:52 -0700 Subject: Re: Cork Turning --------------CA1E4F3E153D96A108B5373D Tim,I've tried it, without much luck. made a mell of a hess. Harry Tim & Jilly Watson wrote: Can you machine cork in a lathe?Yes I know I can put the handle inthe lathe and sand it down but has anyone tried to rough cut it toshape with a tool bit? I suspect that it will tear but what happensif you take the speed up?With a 27" handle to shape it would make lifeeasier?ThanksTim. --------------CA1E4F3E153D96A108B5373D Tim, mellof a hess. Tim & Jilly Watson wrote: lathe?YesI know I can put the handle in the lathe and sand it down but has anyone will tear but what happens if you take the speed up?Witha 27" handle to shape it would make life easier?ThanksTim. --------------CA1E4F3E153D96A108B5373D-- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Oct 22 11:49:41 1999 Subject: Reed's silk line article? Friends (Reed)I know a web address was recently posted to Reed's fine article onrefinishing silk lines, but I forgot to bookmark it. I just acquired anold silk line on a reel I bought, and I think the line will needrefinishing. Does anyone have the url handy? Thanks,Harry from eestlow@srminc.com Fri Oct 22 11:55:26 1999 Subject: Reed's silk line article? 1999) at 10/22/9911:49:36 AM Here you go, Harry,-Ed Estlow ----- Forwarded by Ed Estlow/SRM/US on 10/22/99 11:51 AM ----- Reed Curry Sent by: cc:Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au, owner- rodmakers@wugate "'RODMAKERS'" .wustl.edu Subject: Re: Silk fly lines 10/06/99 11:25 AMPlease respond torcurry Chris,I'd like your response to my article on silk lines at the following:http://www.flyanglersonline.com/The title got screwed up, but do you think Scientific Anglers will hiremeas a spokesperson?Best regards,Reed Chris Wohlford wrote: Mike,Here is a good article you might want to read:American Fly Fisher, vol.17, no.3, Fall 1991, "Silk Line Manufacturing" A photocopy is available from:American Museum of Fly Fishing, P.O. Box 42, Manchester, VT 05254, ph.(802) 362-3300 It won't give you detailed instructions but does make for someinteresting reading. Regards,Chris "Roberts, Michael" wrote: Hi everyone,I know you'll think I've been sniffing too much glue whenyouread this, but, here goes anyway......(I'll probably regret this).Doesanyone know where I can find out how to make my own silk lines? Ipromisenot to let on where I got the information when the men in the whitecoatscome to take me away. TIA. Mike from noblur@stic.net Fri Oct 22 12:51:33 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-60503U15500L11000S0V35) Fri, 22 Oct 1999 12:51:24 -0500 Subject: Fw: Cork Turning Subject: Re: Cork Turning Get a NEW wood rasp, for roughing it out, leaving it about 1/8" over =what you want when finished. from there, various grades of sandpaper =will finish it. You don't want a really rough rasp, but a medium cut =type, will shape fine, without tearing. GMA Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 11:23 AMSubject: Cork Turning Can you machine cork in a lathe?Yes I know I can put the handle in the lathe and sand it down but has =anyone tried to rough cut it to shape with a tool bit? I suspect that =it will tear but what happens if you take the speed up?With a 27" handle to shape it would make life easier?ThanksTim. From:George M. =Aldrich Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 12:47 PMSubject: Re: Cork Turning Get a NEW wood rasp, for roughing it out, leaving it about = over what you want when finished. from there, various grades of = finish it. You don't want a really rough rasp, but a medium cut type, = fine, without tearing. GMA ----- Original Message ----- & Jilly Watson Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 = AMSubject: Cork Turning Can you machine cork in a lathe?Yes I know I can put the handle in the lathe and = down but has anyone tried to rough cut it to shape with a tool = up? easier?ThanksTim. from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Fri Oct 22 13:18:07 1999 Sat, 23 Oct 199907:17:21 +1300 Subject: brass ferrules. With help from Chris , Dave ,Terry , and a few others I have recentlymastered the task of making ferrules out of nickel tubing. It is not asdifficult as it may seem once the tricks of running a lathe are learnt. To date I have made ferrules out of Nickel silver , and I have a supply oftube for these. However down in this part of the world brass is the traditional materialforrod ferrules and I am considering making some brass ferrules. This iswheremy question arises. With nickel silver it is either 12% or 18% , and themetal charactertics are well known. With "brass" there seems to be aslargerange of metal mixes , indeed as we know nickel silver is a brass. Hence my question. Is there anyone out there who knows the correctmetalicmix of brass suitible for ferrules , and better still a supplier of thebrass, preferably in tubing ? . regards Ian Kearney ps I recall this being discussed a couple of years ago but have not beenable to trace it on the archives. from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Oct 22 13:20:50 1999 1999 11:22:37 PDT Subject: RE: Stanley 9 1/2 plane --- Bill Hoy wrote:Record now has a 9 1/2 that I haven't seen, but itis reportedly a littlebetter than the stanley G 220-12, the new name forthe 9 1/2. Both are madein England. the mechanism in the g220-12 is diff from the 9 1/2. the 9 1/2 is being offer again but i understand thatit is heavy like the g220-12. i suppose the new 9 1/2is made in england too. i've been using a g220. it'sfine. i prefer the weight. i have made a discoverytho'...after sharpening the blades many times. andbacking them off repeatedly. they will slip sidewaysin the plane when you adjust the little lever(what'sit called?) from left to right. timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from hsilver@pyx.net Fri Oct 22 13:53:45 1999 Subject: Re: A for real question about flaming rods On Fri, 22 Oct 1999, David Berrie wrote: Actually there is a picture of PHY flaming a rod with this technique onthe PHY Rod Co web page. It's not a very good picture but you can getthe general idea about how it was done... http://www.gtii.com/paulyoung/ Click on the tempering link... OK... I'll admit up front I don't likely know what the hell I am talking about with regard to flame tempering cane but after a veryshort glance at the picture on the web page above I will commencethinking out loud, so to speak... or pipe that is threaded on both ends and by even space drilling with a 1/16 inch or smaller bit on a drill press say, one inch apart alongone side of its length then using a centerpunch to put a _small_ dimple around each hole to make it concave towards the hole a bit andensuring the holes drilled are clean and have no burrs around the edges,one would have the beginnings of a hoop burner. Then by attaching a brass propane BBQ tank hose coupling near the center of the conduit pipe on the underside opposite to the holes drilled it would be something similar to what I recall seeing inmy short glimpse. Then by bending with a pipe bender the conduit into ring of say, 24 inches in diameter and screwing the two open ends togetherthe burner would resemble sort of what I recall seeing in thepicture. Placing four "L" brackets evenly spaced around the outside of thering and attaching them to a metal outside frame to hold the hoopburner in position and this would seem to resemble a ring flame tempering unit for cane as far as I can recall. Then attaching a 8 or 12 foot BBQ tank hose to the tempering unitand the opposite end to a _small_ tank of propane and ensuringthere is a brass blowback valve on the tank end of thehose coupling would seem to work. The *intensity of the flame would be adjusted from the tank. Trialand error would soon show how much or how little gas was needed.I suspect its best to start out REAL slow and increase the gasfed into the hose. Whole clums of bamboo could be fed into the ring of flame while resting the culm on a floor pedastal with a metal "U" affixed the top of it and used as a guide. The burner, USED OUTDOORS AND AWAY from BUILDING STRUCTURES, would be ignited with a manual welding sparker. hair dryer and hose that blows only cold air and connect the output hose to a "Y" connector in the gas hose near the hoop and ensure its a tight seal. A small gate valve in the air hose output line might adjust the volume of air/propane mixture at the hoop burner and cause the flame to burn much hotter. It would probably be a good idea to put a second shutoff valve for further safety in the feed hose near the ring unit itself. So I wouldn't think "compressed air" isneeded. The author takes no responsibility for usage, function, damage or results of the above device. IN SHORT, USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Copyright (c) 1999 - Harley Silver. RELEASED TO PUBLIC DOMAIN. (Y'all have become too litiginous so I gotta put the disclaimerabove and claim I was just thinking out loud.) :) ...OK... I'm wearing my Nomex suit and astbestos longjohns. Flame away ... err... comments ? Harley SilverVictus, libertas et possessio. Its really not any more complicated. from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Oct 22 13:55:03 1999 Subject: Re: brass ferrules. rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 10/22/99 6:23:26 PM, iank@nelson.planet.org.nz wrote: Ian - I am not sure what is actually used out your way, But the mostcommon stuff is 70-30 brass, also known as cartridge brass, or Alloy 260. It has good strength and should be suitable and available. I am afraid I can't help with a tubing source. from bhoy@inmind.com Fri Oct 22 14:00:01 1999 Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:33:00 -0400 Subject: RE: Stanley 9 1/2 plane Record now has a 9 1/2 that I haven't seen, but it is reportedly a littlebetter than the stanley G12-220, the new name for the 9 1/2. Both aremadein England. I have a vintage 9 1/2 from about 1950 that is somewhat lighter andslightly smaller than the new stanley. It fits my hand better and I likethe construction and the patina of the old tools. I have a Stanley #18 fromabout 1935 on order, which is the same as a 9 1/2 but with a knuckle jointlever cap. If anybody wants to date their older 9 1/2 or #18, I have a copy of JohnWalters Stanley tools book. I can try to scan the block plane studies andmake them available as a pdf file if anyone is interested. Block planesare very hard to date because the basic pattern was set down in the 1880sto early 1900s and only VERY slight variations were made in year-by- yearproduction. BTW, if you are going to buy a new stanley, DON'T go to Garrett Wade, youcan get a G 220-12 from Lowes for about 30-35$. I think the Alden'scataloghas them in that price range too. Bill HoyAt 10:49 AM 10/21/1999 -0600, Brownlee, Kirk wrote: from what I have read and heard from others is dig up an old Stanley 91/2because the Record and New Stanley lack the fine tuning of the oldStanley 91/2 I don't know how fine of cute they are talking about I have a Record 9 1/2that I use kdbrownlee@msn.com or kirk_brownlee@jdedwards.com -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, October 21, 1999 10:38 AM Subject: RE: Stanley 9 1/2 plane kirk, record has a 9 1/2 in production also. howdoes it compare to the old stanley? ...or anyoneelse? timothy --- "Brownlee, Kirk" wrote: The Stanley 9 1/2 is back but it is not the samequality that the Pre 1982??I think that was the date anything before 82 was amuch finer plane. Thanks,Kirk Brownlee kdbrownlee@msn.com orKirk_Brownlee@jdedwards.com -----Original Message-----From: timothy troester Sent: Thursday, October 21, 1999 10:15 AM Subject: stanley 9 1/2 plane greetings! i recieved my new garrett wade catalogyesterday and there was a stanley 9 1/2 listed withthe planes. it was around $50. it's been myunderstanding that the 9 1/2 was taken out ofproduction in the 60's, or sometime in the passed. ifthat is the case, stanley has the plane back inproduction. does this make us happy? timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Bill HoyBedford County Webmeister/PIOVA USAw.hoy@co.bedford.va.us(bhoy@inmind.com) from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Oct 22 14:12:28 1999 Sat, 23 Oct 1999 03:12:08 +0800 Subject: Re: brass ferrules. rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu I'd guess cartridge brass would work. I've mentioned this previously butthere are a lot of new people here now who may want to take this up.I'm only thinking out aloud here but I've often wondered how tricky it'd beto make ferrules in the same manner brass cartridges are made.Does RCBS still do wild cat dies and can anybody think of a way to utalisethe cartridge forming concept for ferrules?The hardest part is what to use in place of the rim that you'd need in theforming process. Or possibly use the rim and cut it off after the forminghas been done?I used to use an RCBS Rockchuck press and the thing had so much grunt it'dhave to be capable of forming ferrules in brass. TonyAt 02:53 PM 10/22/99 -0400, TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 10/22/99 6:23:26 PM, iank@nelson.planet.org.nzwrote: mix of brass suitible for ferrules >> Ian - I am not sure what is actually used out your way, But the mostcommon stuff is 70-30 brass, also known as cartridge brass, or Alloy 260. It has good strength and should be suitable and available. I am afraid I can't help with a tubing source. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from cmj@post11.tele.dk Fri Oct 22 14:21:07 1999 +0200 Subject: The flaming oven Since we're about to mention every possible kind of flaminga culm, let me chip in with my method - a proven one used the best of all worlds, when one wants to flame cane. I think Ihave mentioned it before, but here we go again.... 2 - 3 feet of double walled, insulated stove pipe. Make a 1,5inch hole in the middle. Fire up Your propane burner andlet the flame piont into the hole. Keep blasting for 10-15minutes, until it is HOT inside. The burner still blasting, take a 6 feet culm and stick it into theend of the pipe, moving it forwards and backwards, whilst atthe same time rotating it. When the desired colour is there,turn around and redo the process with the other end of the culm. Please note, there is just the pipe, holed in both ends and theflame through the little hole in the middle. What You will get is even colouring/hardening of the cane.If You want that mottled look, You'll have to use the burnerafterwards free-hand style. Any colour from blonde to black can be achieved with thisoven. Please remember - no pausing, keep turning and movingconstantly. regards, Carsten Jorgensen from thramer@presys.com Fri Oct 22 14:44:15 1999 0000 Subject: Cheap Production Rods We must all be wary of those el cheapo production rods.... you knowLeonard,Payne,Granger,Heddon.... As in all things the product will reflect the builder(or company) morethasn the method used.A.J.Thramer from cathcreek@hotmail.com Fri Oct 22 14:49:49 1999 Fri, 22 Oct 1999 12:49:15 PDT Subject: Re: Cork Turning Tim, I glue up my handles on some scrap blank,and then remove after theglue is dry. I turn the cork handle by itself in the lathe that I have(belongs to my father-in-law), and it works quite well. Only thing you need to look remain nameless can attest to... well, Terry can attest to our friend being off centered on his handle. Works for me, others may have different experiences with. Robert Clarkecathcreek@hotmail.com From: "Tim & Jilly Watson" Subject: Cork TurningDate: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 17:23:50 +0100 Can you machine cork in a lathe?Yes I know I can put the handle in the lathe and sand it down but has anyone tried to rough cut it to shape with a tool bit? I suspect that it will tear but what happens if you take the speed up?With a 27" handle to shape it would make life easier?ThanksTim. ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from bdavid@umich.edu Fri Oct 22 15:11:54 1999 with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:11:48 -0400 Subject: Re: A for real question about flaming rods Whenever i look at that picture, I imagined that what was being fedthroughthe "ring of fire" was an iron pipe, which contained bound ungluedstrips. I guess i figured that becuase they mention the use of compressed airin thetext description below.. I pictured the pipe having compressed airblown through it somehow to keep heated moist air out... But now that i've read your post i agreee it looks as though he isfeeding an enitre culm through... Any other ideas?? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ....parts deleted.... Whole clums of bamboo could be fed into the ring of flame while resting the culm on a floor pedastal with a metal "U" affixed the top of it and used as a guide. The burner, USED OUTDOORS AND AWAY from BUILDING STRUCTURES, would be ignited with a manual welding sparker. hair dryer and hose that blows only cold air and connect the output hose to a "Y" connector in the gas hose near the hoop and ensure its a tight seal. A small gate valve in the air hose output line might adjust the volume of air/propane mixture at the hoop burner and cause the flame to burn much hotter. It would probably be a good idea to put a second shutoff valve for further safety in the feed hose near the ring unit itself. So I wouldn't think "compressed air" isneeded. The author takes no responsibility for usage, function, damage or results of the above device. IN SHORT, USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Copyright (c) 1999 - Harley Silver. RELEASED TO PUBLIC DOMAIN. (Y'all have become too litiginous so I gotta put the disclaimerabove and claim I was just thinking out loud.) :) ...OK... I'm wearing my Nomex suit and astbestos longjohns. Flame away ... err... comments ? Harley SilverVictus, libertas et possessio. Its really not any more complicated. David A. Berrie Application Programming/Development University of MichiganMedical Center Information TechnologyAnn Arbor, MI 48109-0704(734) 647-0509bdavid@umich.edu from dellc@nextdim.com Fri Oct 22 15:50:15 1999 Subject: Re: Want to be rodmakers I thought that maybe I was the only one cheap enough to try Elmer's glue. Ithink that any of the wood working glues are stronger than the bamboo inthat the bamboo will pull apart before the glue lets go. Then there is talkof slippage of the glue line with some glues, I don't believe itDell, in digest landDell & Marie CoppockThe Flyfisher& the Quilterhttp://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail dellc@nextdim.comflyfisher@nextdim.com----- Original Message ----- Subject: Want to be rodmakers I hope I don't get stomped on for this message.I was intimidated about making bamboo rods fornine years because of all that I read and heard.The glue lines, twists, bends, tempering, nodes,heat treating oven, planes, hock blades, 6000 gritsharpening stones, planing forms, and the listgoes on. I spent nine years trying to get thesethings so I can start making rods.Wayne convinced me I could make my metal forms, soI did. Took me four evenings. Other than drillingand tapping I used a Vixen file and a trianglefile to make them. Made my binder in one day andoven in a few days.What I am trying to say is these things can bedone and not take a lifetime to do.I have a plane that came from Sears about 45 yearsago, I don't even use the 9 1/2. don't feel asgood as the old Sears. I have not used the 6000stone for sharpening yet, I am still using the3.50 stone I got at a flea market. I don't knowwhat angle I sharpened the blade at, it just cutsgood. The oven was made from some insulated panelscut out of metal insulated doors.I made a Garrison type binder with a few minorchanges and have no problems that I can see. finish on the gluing surfaces are real smooth as Ican scrape right down to the planing form. I have8 rod blanks and 2 completed rods made and see noglue lines. This was my biggest worry that theglue lines would stand out like a sore thumb.These rods and blanks were made over a period ofthree months. I did have a problem with splittingmy first culm. It did not take long to rectifythat. I even went back to the scrap and salvagedmost of it after I learned to split 32 strips fromthe top section of a culm. It only took one culmto learn.Now I know I will get some flack, the glue isElmers Exterior Carpenters Glue. I did some testson it am satisfied that the rods will staytogether. I have over 50 fish on rod # 1 and ithas been soaked several times. OK these rods arenot being sold, they are gifts so I can take achance on the glue. If I ever decide to sell someI will look into another type of glue. I have hadno problem with short working time. I have had notwisting and the blanks are straight. Maybe I havebeen lucky so far.This is it, if you are intimidated like I wasforget it and start making rods. I guess what I amtrying to say is, you don't need that fancy plane,blade, stone, scraper ect. That can come later,get started with what you have if you want to makea rod..Wow, I have it off my chest now.Someone said it a little stronger in a previousmessage, the only way to learn is to do it.BTW, these rods amaze me the way they cast andhandle line.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from stpete@netten.net Fri Oct 22 16:02:07 1999 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Want to be rodmakers] 1999 09:56:27 PDT Subject: Re: Want to be rodmakers fellow travelers, on this subject. i would neverencourage any one to set out to make a rod and notstrive for perfection, but....imperfect,goofy rodsfull of mistakes can fish too. i have a couple ofrods that turned out way below the mark for one reasonor another. these two rods get fished heavy by myselfand friends. they're not pretty. i tried some stuffthat just didn't work out. but, i fish these rods andothers ask to use them. make the rod! every body hasa first rod and there's not a single rodmaker thathasn't screwed up. the next one will be better. onthe other hand, some of the best rods i ever castwere first-time rods. just make the rod. just makethe rod. just make the rod! timothy PS - just make the rod --- "Rick C." wrote:Here! Here! I second the motion! All wanna berodmakers are herebycommanded to get off there duff and make a rod. THEN worry about therest of the stuff. I couldn't agree more. Good Advice Tony. Rick Tony Spezio wrote: I hope I don't get stomped on for this message.I was intimidated about making bamboo rods fornine years because of all that I read and heard.The glue lines, twists, bends, tempering, nodes,heat treating oven, planes, hock blades, 6000 gritsharpening stones, planing forms, and the listgoes on. I spent nine years trying to get thesethings so I can start making rods.Wayne convinced me I could make my metal forms, soI did. Took me four evenings. Other than drillingand tapping I used a Vixen file and a trianglefile to make them. Made my binder in one day andoven in a few days.What I am trying to say is these things can bedone and not take a lifetime to do.I have a plane that came from Sears about 45 yearsago, I don't even use the 9 1/2. don't feel asgood as the old Sears. I have not used the 6000stone for sharpening yet, I am still using the3.50 stone I got at a flea market. I don't knowwhat angle I sharpened the blade at, it just cutsgood. The oven was made from some insulated panelscut out of metal insulated doors.I made a Garrison type binder with a few minorchanges and have no problems that I can see. finish on the gluing surfaces are real smooth as Ican scrape right down to the planing form. I have8 rod blanks and 2 completed rods made and see noglue lines. This was my biggest worry that theglue lines would stand out like a sore thumb.These rods and blanks were made over a period ofthree months. I did have a problem with splittingmy first culm. It did not take long to rectifythat. I even went back to the scrap and salvagedmost of it after I learned to split 32 strips fromthe top section of a culm. It only took one culmto learn.Now I know I will get some flack, the glue isElmers Exterior Carpenters Glue. I did some testson it am satisfied that the rods will staytogether. I have over 50 fish on rod # 1 and ithas been soaked several times. OK these rods arenot being sold, they are gifts so I can take achance on the glue. If I ever decide to sell someI will look into another type of glue. I have hadno problem with short working time. I have had notwisting and the blanks are straight. Maybe I havebeen lucky so far.This is it, if you are intimidated like I wasforget it and start making rods. I guess what I amtrying to say is, you don't need that fancy plane,blade, stone, scraper ect. That can come later,get started with what you have if you want to makea rod..Wow, I have it off my chest now.Someone said it a little stronger in a previousmessage, the only way to learn is to do it.BTW, these rods amaze me the way they cast andhandle line.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from dellc@nextdim.com Fri Oct 22 16:07:14 1999 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Cork Turning I use a Ferrier's rasp. It is a double ended rasp with coarse and fine , =flat and half-riund shape, about 6" long.Dell, in digest landDell & Marie CoppockThe Flyfisher& the Quilterhttp://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail dellc@nextdim.comflyfisher@nextdim.com Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 10:50 AMSubject: Fw: Cork Turning Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 12:47 PMSubject: Re: Cork Turning Get a NEW wood rasp, for roughing it out, leaving it about 1/8" over =what you want when finished. from there, various grades of sandpaper =will finish it. You don't want a really rough rasp, but a medium cut =type, will shape fine, without tearing. GMA Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 11:23 AMSubject: Cork Turning Can you machine cork in a lathe?Yes I know I can put the handle in the lathe and sand it down but =has anyone tried to rough cut it to shape with a tool bit? I suspect =that it will tear but what happens if you take the speed up?With a 27" handle to shape it would make life easier?ThanksTim. I use a Ferrier's rasp. It is a double ended = coarse and fine , flat and half-riund shape, about 6" long.Dell, in digest landDell & Marie CoppockTheFlyfisher& = flyfisher@nextdim.com ----- Original Message ----- George M. = Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 = AMSubject: Fw: Cork Turning From:George M. = Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 12:47 PMSubject: Re: Cork Turning Get a NEW wood rasp, for roughing it out, leaving it = over what you want when finished. from there, various grades of = finish it. You don't want a really rough rasp, but a medium cut type, = shape fine, without tearing. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Tim & Jilly Watson Sent: Friday, October 22, = AMSubject: Cork Turning Can you machine cork in a lathe?Yes I know I can put the handle in the lathe and = down but has anyone tried to rough cut it to shape with a tool = up? easier?ThanksTim. from Turbotrk@aol.com Fri Oct 22 18:38:22 1999 Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Want to be rodmakers] Rick as you know, my first rod was a Sir D. It was plained ok and the glue joints were tight. The wraps on the other hand just were too big. The finish had finger prints in it from my lack of patience. I have caught more fish on this rod then any other. Just build the darn thing. It will fish. stuart from Fallcreek9@aol.com Fri Oct 22 19:32:47 1999 Subject: Re: Cork Turning In a message dated 10/22/99 11:31:52 AM Central Daylight Time, watson@cape-consult.co.uk writes: Tim: I have tried a couple of rounded bits and a pointed one; in each case they reduce the diameter by tearing small chunks out of the cork. I had to revert to files and sandpaper early on as some of the chunk pits were deep. Use of the lathe did, however, level the cork splindidly across its full length, as one might assume. I have a cy of an early edition of The Classic Chronicle, Dick Spur's quarterly news letter and rod list. It has a 2-page reproduction of a newspaper spread on the EF Payne Rod Co., which, by the way, featured ayoung Jim Payne; about 40-somthing years I'd say. The article showed some ofthe steps of making bamboo fly rods. One photo showed someone at a woodlathe shaping a handgrasp with a wood turning tool. So, it is possible but would take some practice. Not much help, but perhaps interesting. Best regards, Richard Tyree from noblur@stic.net Fri Oct 22 20:11:11 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-60503U15500L11000S0V35) Subject: Re: Cork Turning Using a rasp, or even 2 or 3 different types of cut, takes hardly any =time to finish one. Rough with the ferrier's rasp, smooth with a finer =rasp, and finish with about 3 grades of sandpaper. Total time, start to =finish, maybe 30 minutes ! Be sure and tape the cane, where the chuck grabs it. GMA Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 7:31 PMSubject: Re: Cork Turning watson@cape-consult.co.uk writes: Tim: I have tried a couple of rounded bits and a pointed one; in each = they reduce the diameter by tearing small chunks out of the cork. I = revert to files and sandpaper early on as some of the chunk pits were = Use of the lathe did, however, level the cork splindidly across its = length, as one might assume. quarterly news letter and rod list. It has a 2-page reproduction of a = newspaper spread on the EF Payne Rod Co., which, by the way, featured = Jim Payne; about 40-somthing years I'd say. The article showed some of= steps of making bamboo fly rods. One photo showed someone at a wood = shaping a handgrasp with a wood turning tool. So, it is possible but = take some practice. Not much help, but perhaps interesting. Best regards, Richard Tyree text/html; Using a rasp, or even 2 or 3 different types of cut, takes = any time to finish one. Rough with the ferrier's rasp, = with a finer rasp, and finish with about 3 grades of sandpaper. Total = start to finish, maybe 30 minutes ! Be sure and tape the cane, where the chuck grabs =it. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Fallcreek9@aol.com = Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 = PMSubject: Re: Cork TurningIn a message dated 10/22/99 11:31:52 AM Central = watson@cape- can put the handle in the lathe and sand it down but has anyone = shape it would make life = one; in each case they reduce the diameter by tearing small chunks = cork splindidly across its full length, as one might = a cy of an early edition of The Classic Chronicle, Dick Spur's = newspaper spread on the EF Payne Rod Co., which, by the way, = young Jim Payne; about 40-somthing years I'd say. The article = possible but would take some practice.Not much help, but = Tyree from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Fri Oct 22 20:38:23 1999 Sat, 23 Oct 1999 01:37:49 +0000 owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: brass ferrules. Tony, As far as I know, RCBS still will make you anything you want accordingto your specs. I would say to go with a rimmed straight-walled"cartridge" (like a revolver ctg.) in a carbide sleeved sizing die, thencut off the rim. The carbide insert die might be a little expensive atfirst, but you'd save hours by not having to lube, then clean the work. They have a website. I think it's at www.blount.com. Depending on the desired diameter of the end product versus the diameterof the stock, you might wind up having to use a few dies to get there. In this case (depending on the starting diameter, of course) I would tryto go with established case dimensions if possible. For example, a .44to a .357 to a .32, etc., until you get to the final size. This brings you to another situation. What to do with the increasedthickness of material that builds up after squishing all that metaltogether. You'd obviously have to turn it down on a lathe. Inreloading we use a neck reamer to remove the excess material whenreshaping/sizing rifle cases (probably obvious to you since you alreadyknow about RCBS, the Rockchucker, etc. By the way, mine's almost 20years old!). Anyway... This message just seems to be a long-winded agreement withyour idea. Just my $0.02 (American). Dennis Tony Young wrote: I'd guess cartridge brass would work. I've mentioned this previously butthere are a lot of new people here now who may want to take this up.I'm only thinking out aloud here but I've often wondered how tricky it'dbeto make ferrules in the same manner brass cartridges are made.Does RCBS still do wild cat dies and can anybody think of a way toutalisethe cartridge forming concept for ferrules?The hardest part is what to use in place of the rim that you'd need in theforming process. Or possibly use the rim and cut it off after the forminghas been done?I used to use an RCBS Rockchuck press and the thing had so much gruntit'dhave to be capable of forming ferrules in brass. TonyAt 02:53 PM 10/22/99 -0400, TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 10/22/99 6:23:26 PM, iank@nelson.planet.org.nzwrote: mix of brass suitible for ferrules >> Ian - I am not sure what is actually used out your way, But the mostcommonstuff is 70-30 brass, also known as cartridge brass, or Alloy 260. Ithasgood strength and should be suitable and available. I am afraid I can'thelpwith a tubing source. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ -- I know I'm insane, but it's the only thing that keeps me from goingcrazy! from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Fri Oct 22 20:49:37 1999 Subject: Re: Cork Turning I think I have the answer for you. I only use it to cut the circle for thereel seat but it will work for the outside as well. Use a Dremel tool witha burr as your cutting tool. You can use it free hand or mount it on thelathe. I bought one of the flexible extensions for mine and since it is1/2" diameter, I can use it in my metal lathe tool post. It also worksgreat when you want to cut or machine a really hard substance. Just put acutting disk in the Dremmel and cut away. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom In a message dated 10/22/99 11:31:52 AM Central Daylight Time, watson@cape-consult.co.uk writes: Yes I know I can put the handle in the lathe and sand it down but hasanyone tried to rough cut it to shape with a tool bit? I suspect that it will tear but what happens if you take the speed up?With a 27" handle to shape it would make life easier?ThanksTim. Tim: I have tried a couple of rounded bits and a pointed one; in each case they reduce the diameter by tearing small chunks out of the cork. I had to revert to files and sandpaper early on as some of the chunk pits weredeep. Use of the lathe did, however, level the cork splindidly across its full length, as one might assume. I have a cy of an early edition of The Classic Chronicle, Dick Spur's quarterly news letter and rod list. It has a 2-page reproduction of a newspaper spread on the EF Payne Rod Co., which, by the way, featured ayoung Jim Payne; about 40-somthing years I'd say. The article showed some ofthe steps of making bamboo fly rods. One photo showed someone at a woodlathe shaping a handgrasp with a wood turning tool. So, it is possible butwould take some practice. Not much help, but perhaps interesting. Best regards, Richard Tyree from mrj@aa.net Fri Oct 22 20:59:34 1999 Fri, 22 Oct 1999 18:59:22 -0700 Subject: RE: Advice sought. Unfortunately I think I would have to agree with you! Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Advice sought. I think you could safely bet on the 99/1 on what transpires on theinformationhighway.Almost 100% bullshit!Terry Martin Jensen wrote: I call that the old "90 /10" rule. Sometimes I go as low as "80 /20".Wordsto live by! Martin Jensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu ACKLANDSent: October 21, 1999 6:21 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Advice sought. A fly on the wall told me that it takes 4 workers to produce 4 bastardsperweek, working full time. There is certainly no need to get paranoid justyet.I read a magazine article a few weeks ago where the author suggestedthat"90% of everything was crap". Think about it and all the stuff you haveeverpurchased over the years. hsilver@pyx.net wrote: Goodevening,I am new to this list and bamboo flyrod making. In fact, I've never madea flyrod in my life. I'm considering two differing approaches tobuildinga split bamboo flyrod. So I was wondering if other list members mightadvise me on the two approaches to this; EITHER;I know people who make and own split bamboo flyrods, and even thoughI'venever watched the full process, I figure simply knowing others whohavedone it is sufficient knowledge to do things myself. Sorta like a spouseof a professional that claims to know all about that profession becausethey sleep with a professional. After all, big companies used to makebamboo rods on production lines. I figure I could knock out the bestbamboo flyrod around pretty fast. Maybe a couple of weeks. After all,bamboo schmamboo. I know machinery and metal shop work and I figureIcould build my own production line. You know, knock out fifty or ahundredof those bamboo puppies every six hours. Have a plant running 24 hoursaday in say, three shifts. Start up a complete line of bamboo rods allmanufactured by robots so they'd be perfect. These bamboo flyrodswouldbethe best sons of bitches in the flyrod world. Hey wait ! That's it ! I'd call my line of flyrods, Son's Of Bitches. It wouldn't even matter if I didn't know a culm of Tonkin cane from aspruce two by four. After all that's what the public wants, right ?Knocked out bamboo rods at say, 250 bux apiece cold hard cash. I'd berichin no time. What the hell does the public know about a flyrod anywaysandbesides, epoxy covers anything. No one would notice. I could make thebestrods in the world at that price and maybe even spam and get publicity from any and everything and get my name around. Good will and all thatauthentic handmade craftmanship of yesteryear is pure crap forloosers.What the hell did those old dead guys know anyways ? Who needs it?Thereare profits to be had today ! And its the bottom line that counts,right?Now one would know the difference. I could probably take over thebamboorod building world in six months. ! Why, my Son's Of Bitches wouldmakeme famous! OR AS AN ALTERNATIVE APPROACH Carefully listen, ask questions, read and do my very best to take thisonestep at a time. Understand what it is I am trying to accomplish beforestarting and not simply make it up as I go along. Attempt to build oneflyrod that I will be pleased with. Perhaps consider after finishing andusing my first flyrod, building a second flyrod down the road some timewhere I will be able to further master methods and techniques of splitbamboo flyrod building. But first and foremost, master the basics first, Understand I will be working with a natural material (ArundinariaAmabilus) that takes several years to get to a state before I can evenhandle it to start the process of flyrod building. At least attempt tounderstand the nature of this material and why it is the way it is. Aspecialized material of incredible natural strength that is neveruniform,has varying tone and can behave quite differently when two seeminglyindentical pieces of it are placed in front of me. Learn to be fullycomfortable with my own tools and fully understand the methodsbeforeworking and above all, not to rush things. I don't rush while at a troutstream so I would rush while building a flyrod ? Being careful andbeingpatient always pays off. The more time I spend carefully crafting aflyrodto suit myself from clear instructions that I fully understand alongwithsome knowledgable hands to guide and help me get over the rough spotsandusing proven techniques, the more likely I'll end up with a flyrod Ipersonally will be pleased with. A flyrod, that although is my first andmight well have some blemishes, will have given me a learningopportunityand pleasure in its making. It will have given me introduction into acraft I may wish to persue further with enjoyment being my primemotivator. Along the way, if I learn something that I can pass along toothers in my endevors, perhaps I can build goodwill and friendshipsthatwill help me when I need it. Which would you advise me to choose ? Rainbow trout mousse anyone ? :) Regards, Harley SilverVictus, libertas et possessio. from mrj@aa.net Fri Oct 22 21:01:52 1999 Fri, 22 Oct 1999 19:01:34 -0700 Subject: RE: A for real question about flaming rods I am thinking that for flaming it would probably be OK. Might take a littlewhile though. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Leitheiser Subject: Re: A for real question about flaming rods I am just at the stage of planing scrap cane and perfecting sharpeningskills, but I flamed half of my practice culm with my trusty one burnerColeman stove(white gas). Anyone see a problem using this kind of stove Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from mrj@aa.net Fri Oct 22 21:15:17 1999 Fri, 22 Oct 1999 19:15:01 -0700 Subject: RE: Off topic.....was Advice Sought Well I tell ya, Paretto knew what he was talking about! Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Off topic.....was Advice Sought Martin - What you're referring to is called "Paretto's Principle" or the 80/20 ruleand it is amazing how many things in life it really applies to! Regards, Greg Holland -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Advice sought. I call that the old "90 /10" rule. Sometimes I go as low as "80 /20". Wordsto live by! Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- ACKLAND Subject: Re: Advice sought. A fly on the wall told me that it takes 4 workers to produce 4 bastardsperweek, working full time. There is certainly no need to get paranoid justyet.I read a magazine article a few weeks ago where the author suggestedthat "90% of everything was crap". Think about it and all the stuff you have everpurchased over the years. hsilver@pyx.net wrote: Goodevening,I am new to this list and bamboo flyrod making. In fact, I've never madea flyrod in my life. I'm considering two differing approaches to buildinga split bamboo flyrod. So I was wondering if other list members mightadvise me on the two approaches to this; EITHER;I know people who make and own split bamboo flyrods, and even thoughI'venever watched the full process, I figure simply knowing others who havedone it is sufficient knowledge to do things myself. Sorta like a spouseof a professional that claims to know all about that profession becausethey sleep with a professional. After all, big companies used to makebamboo rods on production lines. I figure I could knock out the bestbamboo flyrod around pretty fast. Maybe a couple of weeks. After all,bamboo schmamboo. I know machinery and metal shop work and I figure Icould build my own production line. You know, knock out fifty or ahundredof those bamboo puppies every six hours. Have a plant running 24 hours aday in say, three shifts. Start up a complete line of bamboo rods allmanufactured by robots so they'd be perfect. These bamboo flyrods wouldbethe best sons of bitches in the flyrod world. Hey wait ! That's it ! I'd call my line of flyrods, Son's Of Bitches. It wouldn't even matter if I didn't know a culm of Tonkin cane from aspruce two by four. After all that's what the public wants, right ?Knocked out bamboo rods at say, 250 bux apiece cold hard cash. I'd berichin no time. What the hell does the public know about a flyrod anywaysandbesides, epoxy covers anything. No one would notice. I could make thebestrods in the world at that price and maybe even spam and get publicity from any and everything and get my name around. Good will and all thatauthentic handmade craftmanship of yesteryear is pure crap for loosers.What the hell did those old dead guys know anyways ? Who needs it?Thereare profits to be had today ! And its the bottom line that counts, right?Now one would know the difference. I could probably take over thebamboorod building world in six months. ! Why, my Son's Of Bitches would makeme famous! OR AS AN ALTERNATIVE APPROACH Carefully listen, ask questions, read and do my very best to take this onestep at a time. Understand what it is I am trying to accomplish beforestarting and not simply make it up as I go along. Attempt to build oneflyrod that I will be pleased with. Perhaps consider after finishing andusing my first flyrod, building a second flyrod down the road some timewhere I will be able to further master methods and techniques of splitbamboo flyrod building. But first and foremost, master the basics first, Understand I will be working with a natural material (ArundinariaAmabilus) that takes several years to get to a state before I can evenhandle it to start the process of flyrod building. At least attempt tounderstand the nature of this material and why it is the way it is. Aspecialized material of incredible natural strength that is neveruniform,has varying tone and can behave quite differently when two seeminglyindentical pieces of it are placed in front of me. Learn to be fullycomfortable with my own tools and fully understand the methods beforeworking and above all, not to rush things. I don't rush while at a troutstream so I would rush while building a flyrod ? Being careful and beingpatient always pays off. The more time I spend carefully crafting aflyrodto suit myself from clear instructions that I fully understand along withsome knowledgable hands to guide and help me get over the rough spotsandusing proven techniques, the more likely I'll end up with a flyrod Ipersonally will be pleased with. A flyrod, that although is my first andmight well have some blemishes, will have given me a learningopportunityand pleasure in its making. It will have given me introduction into acraft I may wish to persue further with enjoyment being my primemotivator. Along the way, if I learn something that I can pass along toothers in my endevors, perhaps I can build goodwill and friendships thatwill help me when I need it. Which would you advise me to choose ? Rainbow trout mousse anyone ? :) Regards, Harley SilverVictus, libertas et possessio. from noblur@stic.net Fri Oct 22 21:36:37 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-60503U15500L11000S0V35) , Subject: Re: brass ferrules. Dennis, I don't think the type of brass to too important, providing it's =not some annealed, dead soft stuff. I made brass ferrules, very much =like Super Z's, back in 1957. I put them on a little 6' casting rod, and =fished Bull Shoals, in it's "hey day" with it. They are still just fine = I have a male, nickel silver replacement for my PHY Para. #11, in the =chuck now, I'll finish it in the morning, making the final cut to be =sure it's a perfect suction fit in the female. It's made from 18% rod, =not tubing. GMA Cc: TSmithwick@aol.com ; iank@nelson.planet.org.nz ; = Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 11:39 PMSubject: Re: brass ferrules. Tony, As far as I know, RCBS still will make you anything you want accordingto your specs. I would say to go with a rimmed straight-walled"cartridge" (like a revolver ctg.) in a carbide sleeved sizing die, =thencut off the rim. The carbide insert die might be a little expensive =atfirst, but you'd save hours by not having to lube, then clean the = Depending on the desired diameter of the end product versus the =diameterof the stock, you might wind up having to use a few dies to get there. = In this case (depending on the starting diameter, of course) I would =tryto go with established case dimensions if possible. For example, a =.44 This brings you to another situation. What to do with the increasedthickness of material that builds up after squishing all that metaltogether. You'd obviously have to turn it down on a lathe. Inreloading we use a neck reamer to remove the excess material whenreshaping/sizing rifle cases (probably obvious to you since you =alreadyknow about RCBS, the Rockchucker, etc. By the way, mine's almost 20years old!). Anyway... This message just seems to be a long-winded agreement with Just my $0.02 (American). Dennis Tony Young wrote: I'd guess cartridge brass would work. I've mentioned this previously =butthere are a lot of new people here now who may want to take this up.I'm only thinking out aloud here but I've often wondered how tricky =it'd beto make ferrules in the same manner brass cartridges are made.Does RCBS still do wild cat dies and can anybody think of a way to =utalisethe cartridge forming concept for ferrules?The hardest part is what to use in place of the rim that you'd need =in theforming process. Or possibly use the rim and cut it off after the =forminghas been done?I used to use an RCBS Rockchuck press and the thing had so much =grunt it'dhave to be capable of forming ferrules in brass. TonyAt 02:53 PM 10/22/99 -0400, TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 10/22/99 6:23:26 PM, iank@nelson.planet.org.nz =wrote: mix of brass suitible for ferrules >> Ian - I am not sure what is actually used out your way, But the =most commonstuff is 70-30 brass, also known as cartridge brass, or Alloy 260. =It hasgood strength and should be suitable and available. I am afraid I =can't helpwith a tubing source. =/************************************************************************=*/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It =/************************************************************************=*/ I know I'm insane, but it's the only thing that keeps me from goingcrazy! Dennis, I don't think the type of brass to too important, = it's not some annealed, dead soft stuff. I made brass ferrules, very = Super Z's, back in 1957. I put them on a little 6' casting rod, and = Shoals, in it's "hey day" with it. They are still just fine ! I made = solid rod stock, not tubing. I have a male, nickel silver replacement for my PHY Para. = the chuck now, I'll finish it in the morning, making the final cut to be = tubing. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Dennis Haftel Cc: TSmithwick@aol.com ; iank@nelson.planet.org.nz ; owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 = PMSubject: Re: brass =ferrules.Tony,As far as I know, RCBS still will make you= rimmed straight-walled"cartridge" (like a revolver ctg.) in a = might be a little expensive atfirst, but you'd save hours by not = the desired diameter of the end product versus the diameterof the = you might wind up having to use a few dies to get there. In this = (depending on the starting diameter, of course) I would tryto go = to a .32, etc., until you get to the final size. This brings = material that builds up after squishing all that = a neck reamer to remove the excess material whenreshaping/sizing= cases (probably obvious to you since you alreadyknow about RCBS, = = hardest part is what to use in place of the rim that you'd need in = = = TSmithwick@aol.com = =/************************************************************************= = =/************************************************************************= goingcrazy! from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Fri Oct 22 22:32:17 1999 Sat, 23 Oct 1999 03:31:41 +0000 owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: brass ferrules. George, Can't say I'd disagree with you. I just might have to question thepracticality of it all considering the availability of goodnickel-silver ferrules. This, of course, aside from the qualitativeaesthetic. I mean, brass IS purrty! Dennis George M. Aldrich wrote: Dennis, I don't think the type of brass to too important, providingit's not some annealed, dead soft stuff. I made brass ferrules, verymuch like Super Z's, back in 1957. I put them on a little 6' castingrod, and fished Bull Shoals, in it's "hey day" with it. They are stilljust fine ! I made them from solid rod stock, not tubing. I have a male, nickel silver replacement for my PHY Para. #11, in thechuck now, I'll finish it in the morning, making the final cut to besure it's a perfect suction fit in the female. It's made from 18% rod,not tubing. GMA ----- Original Message -----From: Dennis Haftel Cc: TSmithwick@aol.com ; iank@nelson.planet.org.nz ;owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu ;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSent: Friday, October 22, 1999 11:39 PMSubject: Re: brass ferrules. Tony, As far as I know, RCBS still will make you anything you wantaccordingto your specs. I would say to go with a rimmedstraight-walled"cartridge" (like a revolver ctg.) in a carbide sleevedsizing die, thencut off the rim. The carbide insert die might be a littleexpensive atfirst, but you'd save hours by not having to lube, thenclean the work.They have a website. I think it's at www.blount.com. Depending on the desired diameter of the end product versusthe diameterof the stock, you might wind up having to use a few dies toget there.In this case (depending on the starting diameter, of course)I would tryto go with established case dimensions if possible. Forexample, a .44to a .357 to a .32, etc., until you get to the final size. This brings you to another situation. What to do with theincreasedthickness of material that builds up after squishing allthat metaltogether. You'd obviously have to turn it down on a lathe.Inreloading we use a neck reamer to remove the excess materialwhenreshaping/sizing rifle cases (probably obvious to you sinceyou alreadyknow about RCBS, the Rockchucker, etc. By the way, mine'salmost 20years old!). Anyway... This message just seems to be a long-windedagreement withyour idea. Just my $0.02 (American). Dennis Tony Young wrote: I'd guess cartridge brass would work. I've mentioned thispreviously butthere are a lot of new people here now who may want totake this up.I'm only thinking out aloud here but I've often wonderedhow tricky it'd beto make ferrules in the same manner brass cartridges aremade.Does RCBS still do wild cat dies and can anybody think ofa way to utalisethe cartridge forming concept for ferrules?The hardest part is what to use in place of the rim thatyou'd need in theforming process. Or possibly use the rim and cut it offafter the forminghas been done?I used to use an RCBS Rockchuck press and the thing had somuch grunt it'dhave to be capable of forming ferrules in brass. TonyAt 02:53 PM 10/22/99 -0400, TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 10/22/99 6:23:26 PM,iank@nelson.planet.org.nz wrote: mix of brass suitible for ferrules >> Ian - I am not sure what is actually used out your way,But the most commonstuff is 70-30 brass, also known as cartridge brass, orAlloy 260. It hasgood strength and should be suitable and available. I amafraid I can't helpwith a tubing source. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at:www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ --I know I'm insane, but it's the only thing that keeps me from goingcrazy! -- I know I'm insane, but it's the only thing that keeps me from goingcrazy! from richjez@enteract.com Fri Oct 22 22:42:46 1999 Subject: Re: brass ferrules. owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu This brings you to another situation. What to do with the increasedthickness of material that builds up after squishing all that metaltogether. You'd obviously have to turn it down on a lathe. Why not just use a case trimmer as you would after resizing a cartridge?Rich *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@ /||/______/_||_________________________________________||/\/ \ > > from EESweet@aol.com Sat Oct 23 01:11:02 1999 Subject: Sizing ferrule stations by hand Hi all, I'll be splitting cane for my first rod this weekend (a Dickerson 8014, thanks to everyone for their suggestions) and since I don't have a lathe I was wondering if anyone might have some advice on sizing the ferrulestations rod, so ANY wisdom from those who've done this would be greatlyappreciated. TIA. Eric from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Oct 23 01:11:39 1999 Sat, 23 Oct 1999 14:11:12 +0800 Subject: Re: Cork Turning types="text/plain,text/html"; --=====================_2067590==_.ALT That's right, but also ensure you *NEVER,NEVER* ever let the samd paperwraparound the cork and grab.I did that a couple of weeks back and I bird caged the damn butt. Lookedveryinteresting but totaly useless as a fishing rod. I can report the scarfsheld.If you must sneeze, let go of the sandpaper ;-) Tony At 08:10 PM 10/22/99 -0500, George M. Aldrich wrote: Using a rasp, or even 2 or 3 different types of cut, takes hardly anytime tofinish one. Rough with the ferrier's rasp, smooth with a finer rasp, andfinish with about 3 grades of sandpaper. Total time, start to finish,maybe30 minutes ! Be sure and tape the cane, where the chuck grabs it. GMA ----- Original Message ----- From: Fallcreek9@aol.com Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 7:31 PM Subject: Re: Cork Turning In a message dated 10/22/99 11:31:52 AM Central Daylight Time, watson@cape-consult.co.uk writes: Yes I know I can put the handle in the lathe and sand it down but hasanyone tried to rough cut it to shape with a tool bit? I suspect that it willtearbut what happens if you take the speed up? With a 27" handle to shape it would make life easier? Thanks Tim. Tim: I have tried a couple of rounded bits and a pointed one; in eachcase they reduce the diameter by tearing small chunks out of the cork. I hadto revert to files and sandpaper early on as some of the chunk pits weredeep. Use of the lathe did, however, level the cork splindidly across its full length, as one might assume. I have a cy of an early edition of The Classic Chronicle, Dick Spur's quarterly news letter and rod list. It has a 2-page reproduction of a newspaper spread on the EF Payne Rod Co., which, by the way, featured ayoung Jim Payne; about 40-somthing years I'd say. The article showed some ofthe steps of making bamboo fly rods. One photo showed someone at a woodlathe shaping a handgrasp with a wood turning tool. So, it is possible butwould take some practice. Not much help, but perhaps interesting. Best regards, Richard Tyree /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_2067590==_.ALT That's right, but also ensure you *NEVER,NEVER* ever let the samd paperwrap around the cork and grab.I did that a couple of weeks back and I bird caged the damn butt. Lookedvery interesting but totaly useless as a fishing rod. I can report thescarfs held. If you must sneeze, let go of the sandpaper ;-) Tony At 08:10 PM 10/22/99 -0500, George M. Aldrich wrote: Using a rasp, or even 2 or 3 differenttypes of cut, takes hardly any time to finish one. Rough with theferrier's rasp, smooth with a finer rasp, and finish with about 3 gradesof sandpaper. Total time, start to finish, maybe 30 minutes ! Be sure and tape the cane, where the chuck grabs it. GMA ----- Original Message ----- From:Fallcreek9@aol.com Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 7:31 PMSubject: Re: Cork Turning In a message dated 10/22/99 11:31:52 AM Central Daylight Time, watson@cape-consult.co.uk writes: << Can you machine cork in a lathe?Yes I know I can put the handle in the lathe and sand it down but hasanyone will tear but what happens if you take the speed up?With a 27" handle to shape it would make life easier?ThanksTim. each case they reduce the diameter by tearing small chunks out of the revert to files and sandpaper early on as some of the chunk pits were Use of the lathe did, however, level the cork splindidly across its full length, as one might assume. I have a cy of an early edition of The Classic Chronicle, Dick Spur's of a newspaper spread on the EF Payne Rod Co., which, by the way, featureda young Jim Payne; about 40-somthing years I'd say. The article showed someof the a wood lathe but would take some practice. Not much help, but perhaps interesting. Best regards, Richard Tyree /*************************************************************************/AV Young And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_2067590==_.ALT-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Oct 23 01:31:46 1999 Sat, 23 Oct 1999 14:31:11 +0800 Subject: Re: brass ferrules. TSmithwick@aol.com, iank@nelson.planet.org.nz,owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu If getting the right brass is a problem you can use phosphor bronze. Notthe stuff bearing people call phosphor bronze but the real stuff used for keel bolts through lead etc.This is ok to work and stands up as well as NS does. Tony At 11:33 PM 10/22/99 -0700, Dennis Haftel wrote:George, Can't say I'd disagree with you. I just might have to question thepracticality of it all considering the availability of goodnickel-silver ferrules. This, of course, aside from the qualitativeaesthetic. I mean, brass IS purrty! Dennis George M. Aldrich wrote: Dennis, I don't think the type of brass to too important, providingit's not some annealed, dead soft stuff. I made brass ferrules, verymuch like Super Z's, back in 1957. I put them on a little 6' castingrod, and fished Bull Shoals, in it's "hey day" with it. They are stilljust fine ! I made them from solid rod stock, not tubing. I have a male, nickel silver replacement for my PHY Para. #11, in thechuck now, I'll finish it in the morning, making the final cut to besure it's a perfect suction fit in the female. It's made from 18% rod,not tubing. GMA ----- Original Message -----From: Dennis Haftel Cc: TSmithwick@aol.com ; iank@nelson.planet.org.nz ;owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu ;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSent: Friday, October 22, 1999 11:39 PMSubject: Re: brass ferrules. Tony, As far as I know, RCBS still will make you anything you wantaccordingto your specs. I would say to go with a rimmedstraight-walled"cartridge" (like a revolver ctg.) in a carbide sleevedsizing die, thencut off the rim. The carbide insert die might be a littleexpensive atfirst, but you'd save hours by not having to lube, thenclean the work.They have a website. I think it's at www.blount.com. Depending on the desired diameter of the end product versusthe diameterof the stock, you might wind up having to use a few dies toget there.In this case (depending on the starting diameter, of course)I would tryto go with established case dimensions if possible. Forexample, a .44to a .357 to a .32, etc., until you get to the final size. This brings you to another situation. What to do with theincreasedthickness of material that builds up after squishing allthat metaltogether. You'd obviously have to turn it down on a lathe.Inreloading we use a neck reamer to remove the excess materialwhenreshaping/sizing rifle cases (probably obvious to you sinceyou alreadyknow about RCBS, the Rockchucker, etc. By the way, mine'salmost 20years old!). Anyway... This message just seems to be a long-windedagreement withyour idea. Just my $0.02 (American). Dennis Tony Young wrote: I'd guess cartridge brass would work. I've mentioned thispreviously butthere are a lot of new people here now who may want totake this up.I'm only thinking out aloud here but I've often wonderedhow tricky it'd beto make ferrules in the same manner brass cartridges aremade.Does RCBS still do wild cat dies and can anybody think ofa way to utalisethe cartridge forming concept for ferrules?The hardest part is what to use in place of the rim thatyou'd need in theforming process. Or possibly use the rim and cut it offafter the forminghas been done?I used to use an RCBS Rockchuck press and the thing had somuch grunt it'dhave to be capable of forming ferrules in brass. TonyAt 02:53 PM 10/22/99 -0400, TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 10/22/99 6:23:26 PM,iank@nelson.planet.org.nz wrote: mix of brass suitible for ferrules >> Ian - I am not sure what is actually used out your way,But the most commonstuff is 70-30 brass, also known as cartridge brass, orAlloy 260. It hasgood strength and should be suitable and available. I amafraid I can't helpwith a tubing source. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at:www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ --I know I'm insane, but it's the only thing that keeps me from goingcrazy! -- I know I'm insane, but it's the only thing that keeps me from goingcrazy! /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from harry37@epix.net Sat Oct 23 14:01:33 1999 MAA03780; Subject: Re: Fw: Cork Turning I've had good results using a drywall sanding screen--I'ts coarser thansandpaper and doesn't clog easily. It works cork down prettyquickly-- might be a good step after using a rasp. I'f dust is aproblem, coerce a helper to hold a shop-vac nozzle nearby while you'returning. I usually have to buy my daughter off with the promise of atrip to the mall to get her to help. George M. Aldrich wrote: ----- Original Message -----From: George M. Aldrich Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 12:47 PMSubject: Re: Cork Turning Get a NEW wood rasp, for roughing it out, leaving it about 1/8" overwhat you want when finished. from there, various grades of sandpaperwill finish it. You don't want a really rough rasp, but a medium cuttype, will shape fine, without tearing. GMA ----- Original Message -----From: Tim & Jilly Watson Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 11:23 AMSubject: Cork Turning Can you machine cork in a lathe?Yes I know I can put the handle in the lathe and sand itdown but has anyone tried to rough cut it to shape with atool bit? I suspect that it will tear but what happens ifyou take the speed up?With a 27" handle to shape it would make life easier?ThanksTim. from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Oct 23 14:05:35 1999 "fbcwin@3g.quik.com" Subject: Re: Reed's silk line article? Harry I have made document out of Reed's articles and they will be inPDF file format - I have sent the drafts to Reed for his review. Once heOK'sit I will publish the documents to the Rodmakers Site next week fordownload Chris On Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:51:15 -0500, Harry Boyd wrote: Friends (Reed)I know a web address was recently posted to Reed's fine article onrefinishing silk lines, but I forgot to bookmark it. I just acquired anold silk line on a reel I bought, and I think the line will needrefinishing. Does anyone have the url handy? Thanks,Harry from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Oct 23 14:10:16 1999 Subject: Re: A for real question about flaming rods mschaffer@mindspring.com Hi,I may be out of line here but I've been flaming the strips,not the culm with a standard nozzle on a bernzomatic propane torch. Of course the consistent color is not easy but I find the varied coloration gives a striking rod. Just an old farm boy's $.02.Just don't burn the house down.Hank. from watson@cape-consult.co.uk Sat Oct 23 14:11:10 1999 Sat, 23 Oct 1999 18:34:19 +0100 (BST) , ,, Subject: Re: brass ferrules. I use CZ108 tube (also known as Half Hard) and CZ121 ('Free Machining'whichI think may also be known as MS58 with a composition of CuZn39Pb3 - youneedto check the composition) with no problems, its readily available frommostnon ferrous suppliers and I believe that the CZ*** is fairly standarddescription.No, wait back up on all that I knew I had seen it somewhere go towww.indoswe.com/specsfr.htmand it gives just about everything you need - might even be an inside legmeasuremnt in there somewhere! from past experience----- Original Message ----- ; ;; Subject: Re: brass ferrules. If getting the right brass is a problem you can use phosphor bronze. Notthe stuff bearing people callphosphor bronze but the real stuff used for keel bolts through lead etc.This is ok to work and stands up as well as NS does. Tony At 11:33 PM 10/22/99 -0700, Dennis Haftel wrote:George, Can't say I'd disagree with you. I just might have to question thepracticality of it all considering the availability of goodnickel-silver ferrules. This, of course, aside from the qualitativeaesthetic. I mean, brass IS purrty! Dennis George M. Aldrich wrote: Dennis, I don't think the type of brass to too important, providingit's not some annealed, dead soft stuff. I made brass ferrules, verymuch like Super Z's, back in 1957. I put them on a little 6' castingrod, and fished Bull Shoals, in it's "hey day" with it. They are stilljust fine ! I made them from solid rod stock, not tubing. I have a male, nickel silver replacement for my PHY Para. #11, in thechuck now, I'll finish it in the morning, making the final cut to besure it's a perfect suction fit in the female. It's made from 18% rod,not tubing. GMA ----- Original Message -----From: Dennis Haftel Cc: TSmithwick@aol.com ; iank@nelson.planet.org.nz ;owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu ;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSent: Friday, October 22, 1999 11:39 PMSubject: Re: brass ferrules. Tony, As far as I know, RCBS still will make you anything you wantaccordingto your specs. I would say to go with a rimmedstraight-walled"cartridge" (like a revolver ctg.) in a carbide sleevedsizing die, thencut off the rim. The carbide insert die might be a littleexpensive atfirst, but you'd save hours by not having to lube, thenclean the work.They have a website. I think it's at www.blount.com. Depending on the desired diameter of the end product versusthe diameterof the stock, you might wind up having to use a few dies toget there.In this case (depending on the starting diameter, of course)I would tryto go with established case dimensions if possible. Forexample, a .44to a .357 to a .32, etc., until you get to the final size. This brings you to another situation. What to do with theincreasedthickness of material that builds up after squishing allthat metaltogether. You'd obviously have to turn it down on a lathe.Inreloading we use a neck reamer to remove the excess materialwhenreshaping/sizing rifle cases (probably obvious to you sinceyou alreadyknow about RCBS, the Rockchucker, etc. By the way, mine'salmost 20years old!). Anyway... This message just seems to be a long-windedagreement withyour idea. Just my $0.02 (American). Dennis Tony Young wrote: I'd guess cartridge brass would work. I've mentioned thispreviously butthere are a lot of new people here now who may want totake this up.I'm only thinking out aloud here but I've often wonderedhow tricky it'd beto make ferrules in the same manner brass cartridges aremade.Does RCBS still do wild cat dies and can anybody think ofa way to utalisethe cartridge forming concept for ferrules?The hardest part is what to use in place of the rim thatyou'd need in theforming process. Or possibly use the rim and cut it offafter the forminghas been done?I used to use an RCBS Rockchuck press and the thing had somuch grunt it'dhave to be capable of forming ferrules in brass. TonyAt 02:53 PM 10/22/99 -0400, TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 10/22/99 6:23:26 PM,iank@nelson.planet.org.nz wrote: mix of brass suitible for ferrules >> Ian - I am not sure what is actually used out your way,But the most commonstuff is 70-30 brass, also known as cartridge brass, orAlloy 260. It hasgood strength and should be suitable and available. I amafraid I can't helpwith a tubing source. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at:www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ --I know I'm insane, but it's the only thing that keeps me from goingcrazy! --I know I'm insane, but it's the only thing that keeps me from goingcrazy! /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from caneman@clnk.com Sat Oct 23 14:13:05 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Sat, 23 Oct 1999 10:06:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Cork Turning OK, Here is how I turn my handles... kinda simple actually. I build alittle jig that bolts to my tool post on my lathe that holds a variablespeed 1/4" electric die grinder. I use a mandrel in the die grinder, spiralwrapped with a rough (80 grit) sandpaper. Run my lathe on a fairly highspeed, as though I were working wood, and the die grinder on a relativelyhigh speed. Actually, by the time the initial shape is done, using thismethod, there is very little "finish" sanding to be done on the cork handle.I do the handle on the rod, with the reel seet filler already glued in placeand (be very sure you set your rod up exactly centered) it has no runoutwhen I am done. OH, and I set the die grinder in so that the bit contactsthe cork at about a 45 degree angle. I tried a 90 deg, but it just worksbetter (sands smoother) at 45*. Nunley Yes I know I can put the handle in the lathe and sand it down but hasanyonetried to rough cut it to shape with a tool bit? I suspect that it willtearbut what happens if you take the speed up?With a 27" handle to shape it would make life easier?ThanksTim. Tim: I have tried a couple of rounded bits and a pointed one; in each casethey reduce the diameter by tearing small chunks out of the cork. I had torevert to files and sandpaper early on as some of the chunk pits weredeep.Use of the lathe did, however, level the cork splindidly across its fulllength, as one might assume. I have a cy of an early edition of The Classic Chronicle, Dick Spur'squarterly news letter and rod list. It has a 2-page reproduction of anewspaper spread on the EF Payne Rod Co., which, by the way, featured ayoungJim Payne; about 40-somthing years I'd say. The article showed some ofthesteps of making bamboo fly rods. One photo showed someone at a woodlatheshaping a handgrasp with a wood turning tool. So, it is possible butwouldtake some practice. Not much help, but perhaps interesting. Best regards, Richard Tyree from caneman@clnk.com Sat Oct 23 14:13:08 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) , Subject: Re: brass ferrules. If you are intersted in drawing ferrules, youi might look at the way LyleDickerson did it. His method of drawing ferrules from tubing wasintersting, and is fully illustrated and explained in the book "DickersonThe Man and His Rods" by Gerald S. Stein and Jim Schaff, ISBN#0- 9629439-3-2. I will get my book out and see if it is feasable to scanthese pages and pictures of his setup in, if anyone is interested anddoesn't have access to the book. Nunley -----Original Message----- ; owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: brass ferrules. Tony, As far as I know, RCBS still will make you anything you want accordingto your specs. I would say to go with a rimmed straight-walled"cartridge" (like a revolver ctg.) in a carbide sleeved sizing die, thencut off the rim. The carbide insert die might be a little expensive atfirst, but you'd save hours by not having to lube, then clean the work.They have a website. I think it's at www.blount.com. Depending on the desired diameter of the end product versus the diameterof the stock, you might wind up having to use a few dies to get there.In this case (depending on the starting diameter, of course) I would tryto go with established case dimensions if possible. For example, a .44to a .357 to a .32, etc., until you get to the final size. This brings you to another situation. What to do with the increasedthickness of material that builds up after squishing all that metaltogether. You'd obviously have to turn it down on a lathe. Inreloading we use a neck reamer to remove the excess material whenreshaping/sizing rifle cases (probably obvious to you since you alreadyknow about RCBS, the Rockchucker, etc. By the way, mine's almost 20years old!). Anyway... This message just seems to be a long-winded agreement withyour idea. Just my $0.02 (American). Dennis Tony Young wrote: I'd guess cartridge brass would work. I've mentioned this previously butthere are a lot of new people here now who may want to take this up.I'm only thinking out aloud here but I've often wondered how tricky it'dbeto make ferrules in the same manner brass cartridges are made.Does RCBS still do wild cat dies and can anybody think of a way toutalisethe cartridge forming concept for ferrules?The hardest part is what to use in place of the rim that you'd need intheforming process. Or possibly use the rim and cut it off after theforminghas been done?I used to use an RCBS Rockchuck press and the thing had so much gruntit'dhave to be capable of forming ferrules in brass. TonyAt 02:53 PM 10/22/99 -0400, TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 10/22/99 6:23:26 PM, iank@nelson.planet.org.nzwrote: mix of brass suitible for ferrules >> Ian - I am not sure what is actually used out your way, But the mostcommonstuff is 70-30 brass, also known as cartridge brass, or Alloy 260. Ithasgood strength and should be suitable and available. I am afraid I can'thelpwith a tubing source. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ --I know I'm insane, but it's the only thing that keeps me from goingcrazy! from caneman@clnk.com Sat Oct 23 14:13:09 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Sat, 23 Oct 1999 11:10:27 -0500 Subject: Dickersons Ferrule drawing machine I got the two pages scanned in out of the Dickerson book concerning his =ferrule drawing machine. It is pretty simple to build and if anyone is =interested in it, let me know and I will email you the pages off of the =list. I would post them on here, but the two pages total about 300+kb =so it would be a pain for those not intersted. Just email me and let me =know if you want the pages. They actually came out pretty clear and are =in jpeg format. Later, Bob N. I got the two pages scanned in out= to build and if anyone is interested in it, let me know and I will email = and are in jpeg format. Later, BobN. from caneman@clnk.com Sat Oct 23 14:13:09 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Sat, 23 Oct 1999 11:39:08 -0500 Subject: Lathe Guys, I don't know if this is the right place to do this, but I am =trying to sell my older model Atlas Lathe to make room for a new one =(got a little bit of a windfall and can afford a new lathe, but don't =have room to put it before I get rid of the old one!), so, if anyone is =interested in a Lathe, this is a 6"swing 36" centers. I am close to =Eastern OK, and western AR. Email me if you think youi might be =interested and I can email you pics of the lather, and the price. THanks,Bob Guys, I don't know if this is the = do this, but I am trying to sell my older model Atlas Lathe to make room = new one (got a little bit of a windfall and can afford a new lathe, but = = interested and I can email you pics of the lather, and the =price. THanks,Bob from noblur@stic.net Sat Oct 23 14:22:36 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-60503U15500L11000S0V35) Subject: Re: A for real question about flaming rods As I look at the "Ring of Fire", it appears PHY felt it important to =apply the heat evenly, from one end of the culm, to the other. It sounds =to me that the ring, was in truth a circular blow torch, i.e., the =application of air pressure to the gas, gave this effect. The object, as =I see it, is that it drove the moisture from one end to the other, very =evenly. I would have loved to see how the culm split, after this treatment ! GMA Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 8:59 PMSubject: RE: A for real question about flaming rods I am thinking that for flaming it would probably be OK. Might take a =littlewhile though. Martin Jensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu LeitheiserSent: October 21, 1999 7:05 PM Subject: Re: A for real question about flaming rods I am just at the stage of planing scrap cane and perfecting sharpeningskills, but I flamed half of my practice culm with my trusty one =burnerColeman stove(white gas). Anyone see a problem using this kind of =stove Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane As I look at the "Ring of Fire", it appears PHY felt it = to apply the heat evenly, from one end of the culm, to the other. It = me that the ring, was in truth a circular blow torch, i.e., the = it drove the moisture from one end to the other, very =evenly. I would have loved to see how the culm split, after this = ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- Martin Jensen = = Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 = PMSubject: RE: A for real = flaming rodsI am thinking that for flaming it would probably be OK. = take a littlewhile though.Martin = Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.w= rodmakers@w= rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Re: A for real question about flaming rodsI am just at the = of planing scrap cane and perfecting sharpeningskills, but I = half of my practice culm with my trusty one burnerColeman = rather than propane?Mike Leitheiser"When the trout are = = Tom McGuane from noblur@stic.net Sat Oct 23 14:38:20 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-60503U15500L11000S0V35) "Don & Sandy Andersen" Subject: Re: Re:Ni-silver solid stock I got the 18% in 3/16", and 1/4", from a knife co. in Houston. The 3/8", =and 1/2" is only 12%, or 14%, I got from Busby Metals 516-434-3400, ask= They haven't come yet, but that's typical UPS delivery, (two to 3 - =weeks, for either coast !) ! Prices are about $9.50/lb., and 3/8" weighs =5lbs., 1/2" 7lbs.. Jamaica Wire was supposed to have 18%, but had only =12% I think, and their prices were higher. Their no. is 1-800-527-2290, =ask for Mike. I wrote down $19.50/lb. ! The 18% machines very nicely. I have tooling capable of working very =hard materials, but was cautious about drilling, and boring, in small =increments, to avoid distortion, or "wandering" off center. I have well =over 100 reamers in small increment variations, I use in my business, =but I'm sure I will wind up ordering more various sizes, as I get into =other ferrules. I can get .0005" plus or minus reamers, in HS steel, via =Travers Tool, for under $10, usually ! By modifying the end of the =reamer slightly, you can get a pretty square bottom in a blind hole. =This lets me make a ferrule, with blind bores on both ends, eliminating =the need for any soldering. I can't find the knife company number just now, but will post it when I =do. I was able to get only 6' of stock, in the smaller sizes from them, =but it was cut into 12" pieces. This will wind up wasting some stock. A =full 6' stick, would allow feeding it through the head stock. GMA Sent: Saturday, October 23, 1999 7:32 AMSubject: Re:Ni-silver solid stock GMA, Where did you get 18% ni-sil soldi stock? Thanx, Don Dennis, I don't think the type of brass to too important, providing =it's not some annealed, dead soft stuff. I made brass ferrules, very =much like Super Z's, back in 1957. I put them on a little 6' casting =rod, and fished Bull Shoals, in it's "hey day" with it. They are still = I have a male, nickel silver replacement for my PHY Para. #11, in =the chuck now, I'll finish it in the morning, making the final cut to be =sure it's a perfect suction fit in the female. It's made from 18% rod, =not tubing. GMA Cc: TSmithwick@aol.com ; =iank@nelson.planet.org.nz ; =owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 11:39 PMSubject: Re: brass ferrules. Tony, As far as I know, RCBS still will make you anything you want =accordingto your specs. I would say to go with a rimmed straight-walled"cartridge" (like a revolver ctg.) in a carbide sleeved sizing =die, thencut off the rim. The carbide insert die might be a little =expensive atfirst, but you'd save hours by not having to lube, then clean the = They have a website. I think it's at = Depending on the desired diameter of the end product versus the =diameterof the stock, you might wind up having to use a few dies to get = In this case (depending on the starting diameter, of course) I =would tryto go with established case dimensions if possible. For example, a =.44 This brings you to another situation. What to do with the =increasedthickness of material that builds up after squishing all that =metaltogether. You'd obviously have to turn it down on a lathe. Inreloading we use a neck reamer to remove the excess material whenreshaping/sizing rifle cases (probably obvious to you since you =alreadyknow about RCBS, the Rockchucker, etc. By the way, mine's almost =20years old!). Anyway... This message just seems to be a long-winded agreement =with Just my $0.02 (American). Dennis Tony Young wrote: I'd guess cartridge brass would work. I've mentioned this =previously butthere are a lot of new people here now who may want to take this =up.I'm only thinking out aloud here but I've often wondered how =tricky it'd beto make ferrules in the same manner brass cartridges are made.Does RCBS still do wild cat dies and can anybody think of a way =to utalisethe cartridge forming concept for ferrules?The hardest part is what to use in place of the rim that you'd =need in theforming process. Or possibly use the rim and cut it off after =the forminghas been done?I used to use an RCBS Rockchuck press and the thing had so much =grunt it'dhave to be capable of forming ferrules in brass. TonyAt 02:53 PM 10/22/99 -0400, =TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 10/22/99 6:23:26 PM, =iank@nelson.planet.org.nz wrote: mix of brass suitible for ferrules >> Ian - I am not sure what is actually used out your way, But the =most commonstuff is 70-30 brass, also known as cartridge brass, or Alloy =260. It hasgood strength and should be suitable and available. I am afraid =I can't helpwith a tubing source. =/************************************************************************=*/AV Young Visit my web site at: =www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/f=lyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It =/************************************************************************=*/ I know I'm insane, but it's the only thing that keeps me from =goingcrazy! I got the 18% in 3/16", and 1/4", from a knife co. in = 3/8", and 1/2" is only 12%, or 14%, I got from Busby Metals = haven't come yet, but that's typical UPS delivery, (two to 3 - weeks, = coast !) ! Prices are about $9.50/lb., and 3/8" weighs 5lbs., 1/2" = Jamaica Wire was supposed to have 18%, but had only 12% I think, and = prices were higher. Their no. is 1-800-527-2290, ask for Mike. I wrote = $19.50/lb. ! The 18% machines very nicely. I have tooling capable of = very hard materials, but was cautious about drilling, and boring, in = increments, to avoid distortion, or "wandering" off center. I have well = reamers in small increment variations, I use in my business, but I'm = wind up ordering more various sizes, as I get into other ferrules. I can = .0005" plus or minus reamers, in HS steel, via Travers Tool, for under = usually ! By modifying the end of the reamer slightly, you can get a = square bottom in a blind hole. This lets me make a ferrule, with blind = both ends, eliminating the need for any soldering. I can't find the knife company number just now, but will = when I do. I was able to get only 6' of stock, in the smaller sizes from = but it was cut into 12" pieces. This will wind up wasting some stock. A = stick, would allow feeding it through the head stock. GMA ----- Original Message ----- & Sandy Andersen Sent: Saturday, October 23, = AMSubject: Re:Ni-silver solid =stock stock?Thanx,DonAt 09:36 PM 10/22/99 -0500, = Dennis, I don't think the type of brass to too = providing it's not some annealed, dead soft stuff. I made brass = very much like Super Z's, back in 1957. I put them on a little 6' = rod, and fished Bull Shoals, in it's "hey day" with it. They are = fine ! I made them from solid rod stock, not tubing. = male, nickel silver replacement for my PHY Para. #11, in the chuck = finish it in the morning, making the final cut to be sure it's a = tubing.GMA = rodmakers@wugate.wus= ; = Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 11:39 = brass ferrules.Tony,As far as I know, RCBS still = you anything you want accordingto your specs. I would say to = rimmed straight-walled"cartridge" (like a revolver ctg.) in a = sleeved sizing die, thencut off the rim. The carbide insert = be a little expensive atfirst, but you'd save hours by not = lube, then clean the work. They have a website. I think it's = = desired diameter of the end product versus the diameterof the = you might wind up having to use a few dies to get there. In = (depending on the starting diameter, of course) I would tryto = established case dimensions if possible. For example, a .44to = to a .32, etc., until you get to the final size. This = to another situation. What to do with the increasedthickness = material that builds up after squishing all that = obviously have to turn it down on a lathe. Inreloading we use = reamer to remove the excess material whenreshaping/sizing = (probably obvious to you since you alreadyknow about RCBS, the = old!).Anyway... This message just seems to be a = = use an RCBS Rockchuck press and the thing had so much grunt = strength and should be suitable and available. I am afraid I can't = =/************************************************************************= = =/************************************************************************= =goingcrazy!<<<<= from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Oct 23 16:49:33 1999 "noblur@stic.net" ,"Rodmakers" Subject: Re:Ni-silver solid stock --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862640=_=_=_ George The name of the company is Texas Knifemakers Supply and the phonenumber is (713) 461-8632 for information and (888) 461-8632 for ordersor you canvisit their website at http://www.siteblazer.net/texasknife and ordertheir catalog.You are correct on their prices for NS stock are very good - see catalog -they see Chris Their --Original Message Text--- I got the 18% in 3/16", and 1/4", from a knife co. in Houston. The 3/8", and1/2" isonly 12%, or 14%, I got from Busby Metals 516-434-3400, ask for John Miller. I ordered 12' sticks of the two largersizes fromhim. They haven't come yet, but that's typical UPS delivery, (two to 3 - weeks, for either coast !) ! Prices are about$9.50/lb., and3/8" weighs 5lbs., 1/2" 7lbs.. Jamaica Wire was supposed to have 18%, but had only 12% I think, and their prices werehigher. Theirno. is 1-800-527- 2290, ask for Mike. I wrote down $19.50/lb. ! The 18% machines very nicely. I have tooling capable of working very hardmaterials, butwas cautious about drilling, and boring, in small increments, to avoid distortion, or "wandering" off center. I havewell over100 reamers in small increment variations, I use in my business, but I'm sure I will wind up ordering more varioussizes, as I getinto other ferrules. I can get .0005" plus or minus reamers, in HS steel, via Travers Tool, for under $10, usually ! Bymodifying theend of the reamer slightly, you can get a pretty square bottom in a blind hole. This lets me make a ferrule, withblind bores onboth ends, eliminating the need for any soldering. I can't find the knife company number just now, but will post it when I do.I was ableto get only 6' of stock, in the smaller sizes from them, but it was cut into 12" pieces. This will wind up wasting somestock. A full6' stick, would allow feeding it through the head stock. GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re:Ni-silver solid stock GMA, Where did you get 18% ni-sil soldi stock? Thanx, Don At 09:36 PM 10/22/99 -0500, you wrote: Dennis, I don't think the type of brass to too important, providing it's notsomeannealed, dead soft stuff. I made brass ferrules, very much like Super Z's, back in 1957. I put them on a little 6' castingrod, andfished Bull Shoals, in it's "hey day" with it. They are still just fine ! I made them from solid rod stock, not tubing. I have a male, nickel silver replacement for my PHY Para. #11, in thechuck now, I'llfinish it in the morning, making the final cut to be sure it's a perfect suction fit in the female. It's made from 18% rod,not tubing. GMA----- Original Message ----- iank@nelson.planet.org.nz ; owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: brass ferrules. Tony, As far as I know, RCBS still will make you anything you want accordingto your specs. I would say to go with a rimmed straight-walled"cartridge" (like a revolver ctg.) in a carbide sleeved sizing die, thencut off the rim. The carbide insert die might be a little expensive atfirst, but you'd save hours by not having to lube, then clean the work. They have a website. I think it's atwww.blount.com. Depending on the desired diameter of the end product versus the diameterof the stock, you might wind up having to use a few dies to get there. In this case (depending on the starting diameter, of course) I would tryto go with established case dimensions if possible. For example, a .44to a .357 to a .32, etc., until you get to the final size. This brings you to another situation. What to do with the increasedthickness of material that builds up after squishing all that metaltogether. You'd obviously have to turn it down on a lathe. Inreloading we use a neck reamer to remove the excess material whenreshaping/sizing rifle cases (probably obvious to you since you alreadyknow about RCBS, the Rockchucker, etc. By the way, mine's almost 20years old!). Anyway... This message just seems to be a long-winded agreement withyour idea. Just my $0.02 (American). Dennis Tony Young wrote: I'd guess cartridge brass would work. I've mentioned this previously butthere are a lot of new people here now who may want to take this up.I'm only thinking out aloud here but I've often wondered how tricky it'dbeto make ferrules in the same manner brass cartridges are made.Does RCBS still do wild cat dies and can anybody think of a way toutalisethe cartridge forming concept for ferrules?The hardest part is what to use in place of the rim that you'd need in theforming process. Or possibly use the rim and cut it off after the forminghas been done?I used to use an RCBS Rockchuck press and the thing had so much gruntit'dhave to be capable of forming ferrules in brass. TonyAt 02:53 PM 10/22/99 -0400,TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 10/22/99 6:23:26 PM,iank@nelson.planet.org.nz wrote: mix of brass suitible for ferrules >> Ian - I am not sure what is actually used out your way, But the mostcommonstuff is 70-30 brass, also known as cartridge brass, or Alloy 260. Ithasgood strength and should be suitable and available. I am afraid I can'thelpwith a tubing source. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ -- I know I'm insane, but it's the only thing that keeps me from goingcrazy! George The name of the company is Texas Knifemakers Supply and thephonenumber is (713) 461-8632 for information and (888) 461-8632 for ordersor you canvisit their website at http://www.siteblazer.net/texasknife and ordertheir catalog.You are correct on their prices for NS stock are very good - see catalog -they see Chris Their --Original Message Text---From: George M. AldrichDate: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 09:42:04 -0500 I got the 18% in 3/16", and 1/4", from a knife co. in Houston. The 3/8",and 1/2" isonly 12%, or 14%, I got from Busby Metals 516-434-3400, ask for JohnMiller. I ordered12' sticks of the two larger sizes from him. They haven't come yet, butthat's typicalUPS delivery, (two to 3 - weeks, for either coast !) ! Prices are about$9.50/lb., and3/8" weighs 5lbs., 1/2" 7lbs.. Jamaica Wire was supposed to have 18%, buthad only 12% Ithink, and their prices were higher. Their no. is 1-800-527-2290, ask forMike. I wrotedown $19.50/lb. ! The 18% machines very nicely. I have tooling capable of working veryhard materials,but was cautious about drilling, and boring, in small increments, to avoiddistortion,or "wandering" off center. I have well over 100 reamers in smallincrement variations, Iuse in my business, but I'm sure I will wind up ordering more varioussizes, as I getinto other ferrules. I can get .0005" plus or minus reamers, in HS steel, viaTraversTool, for under $10, usually ! By modifying the end of the reamer slightly,you can geta pretty square bottom in a blind hole. This lets me make a ferrule, withblind bores onboth ends, eliminating the need for any soldering. I can't find the knife company number just now, but will post it when Ido. I wasable to get only 6' of stock, in the smaller sizes from them, but it was cutinto 12"pieces. This will wind up wasting some stock. A full 6' stick, would allowfeeding itthrough the head stock. GMA----- Original Message ----- From: Don & Sandy Andersen Sent: Saturday, October 23, 1999 7:32 AMSubject: Re:Ni-silver solid stock GMA, Where did you get 18% ni-sil soldi stock? Thanx, Don At 09:36 PM 10/22/99 -0500, you wrote: Dennis, I don't think the type of brass to too important, providing it'snot someannealed, dead soft stuff. I made brass ferrules, very much like Super Z's,back in1957. I put them on a little 6' casting rod, and fished Bull Shoals, in it's"hey day"with it. They are still just fine ! I made them from solid rod stock, nottubing. I have a male, nickel silver replacement for my PHY Para. #11, in thechuck now, I'llfinish it in the morning, making the final cut to be sure it's a perfectsuction fit inthe female. It's made from 18% rod, not tubing. GMA----- Original Message ----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu ; < Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 11:39 PMSubject: Re: brass ferrules. Tony, As far as I know, RCBS still will make you anything you wantaccordingto your specs. I would say to go with a rimmed straight-walled"cartridge" (like a revolver ctg.) in a carbide sleeved sizing die, thencut off the rim. The carbide insert die might be a little expensive atfirst, but you'd save hours by not having to lube, then clean the work. They have a website. I think it's at Depending on the desired diameter of the end product versus thediameterof the stock, you might wind up having to use a few dies to get there. In this case (depending on the starting diameter, of course) I wouldtryto go with established case dimensions if possible. For example, a .44to a .357 to a .32, etc., until you get to the final size. This brings you to another situation. What to do with the increasedthickness of material that builds up after squishing all that metaltogether. You'd obviously have to turn it down on a lathe. Inreloading we use a neck reamer to remove the excess material whenreshaping/sizing rifle cases (probably obvious to you since youalreadyknow about RCBS, the Rockchucker, etc. By the way, mine's almost 20years old!). Anyway... This message just seems to be a long-winded agreementwithyour idea. Dennis Tony Young wrote: but up. it'd be utalise the forming grunt it'd wrote: metalic most common 260. It has can'thelp /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/ -- I know I'm insane, but it's the only thing that keeps me from goingcrazy! <<<< --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862640=_=_=_-- from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Oct 23 16:58:14 1999 Subject: Re: Fw: Cork Turning George Tip of the week: There is another good use for Dry Wall Screen and that is to flattenyour water stones with - It really does a quick and super job - muchbetter thanother methods. You can find this in your friendly True Value Hardware store - reasonIsay this is one of my students who owns one put me on to using this vicesandpaperand at least deserves the extra business for the time it saves. Try it -you'll agree. Chris On Sat, 23 Oct 1999 13:00:38 -0400, Greg Kuntz wrote: I've had good results using a drywall sanding screen--I'ts coarser thansandpaper and doesn't clog easily. It works cork down prettyquickly-- might be a good step after using a rasp. I'f dust is aproblem, coerce a helper to hold a shop-vac nozzle nearby while you'returning. I usually have to buy my daughter off with the promise of atrip to the mall to get her to help. George M. Aldrich wrote: ----- Original Message -----From: George M. Aldrich Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 12:47 PMSubject: Re: Cork Turning Get a NEW wood rasp, for roughing it out, leaving it about 1/8" overwhat you want when finished. from there, various grades of sandpaperwill finish it. You don't want a really rough rasp, but a medium cuttype, will shape fine, without tearing. GMA ----- Original Message -----From: Tim & Jilly Watson Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 11:23 AMSubject: Cork Turning Can you machine cork in a lathe?Yes I know I can put the handle in the lathe and sand itdown but has anyone tried to rough cut it to shape with atool bit? I suspect that it will tear but what happens ifyou take the speed up?With a 27" handle to shape it would make life easier?ThanksTim. from dpvbkjs@somtel.com Sat Oct 23 18:03:29 1999 Subject: Varnish I just visited my local marine supply company here in Maine anddiscoveredsome Epifane spar varnish - made in Holland. They also carry Pettit andInterlux. The salesperson thought the Epifane was the best stuff (also themost expensive). Does anyone out there have any exprience or knowledgeofthese brands. TIA, Dave from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Sat Oct 23 19:08:37 1999 +0000 Subject: Arundinaria amabilis under glass anyone? Hi all, Just glued up my 444 Thramer (Epon) and decided not to hang it withweights this time because of the horrible twists I ended up with on mylast (first rod) effort. I have heard a lot about wedging the newlyglued blank between the final planing form and another flat surface withweight on top. I figured I'd take that idea (with a "twist", of course)and almost squash the section (a one-piece this time) between two heavypanes of fishtank glass. I plan on rotating the section after a fewhours tomake sure there aren't any twists or lateral bends. Initially, I tried rolling the blank between the two panes, but Inoticed the bulb of binding string at the tip was causing a bend and atwist there, so I changed my strategy a bit. I wedged the knot ofstring between the ends of both panes and pulled really hard on the buttend. This caused the section to straighten out to an almost perfectstraight line. I then wedged the whole thing between the glass and amwaiting for a little time to pass (impatiently, I assure you!). I'll report back with my results later. I just thought I'd share thiswith the list while my potatoes boil . Later, Dennis from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Oct 23 19:54:05 1999 Subject: Re: Cork Turning rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu I use a mill bastard file (flat) and finish off with sandpaper, then I use color preserver in the pits and sand 'til the pits fill with the sanding dust. I find the file cuts quickly and smoothly. My "lathe" is a hand drill mounted on a stand and 2 sets of adjustable roller bearings. Not exactly hi-tech but it works for me.Regards,Hank W. from rcurry@ttlc.net Sat Oct 23 19:57:13 1999 Subject: Re: Taper for a 9' # 3 or 4 two piece David,I think I know the taper of which you speak. I've used that rod for bothtrout and smallmouths, even in fast water. It's great fun to cast andalwaysperforms well; but a 3wt is not a general purpose rod, IMHO -- landing a13"smallie in rapids calls for more wood than that.A 3wt 9' is a rare bird, I searched for years before Tom Smithwick waskind enough to direct me to that rod. Be sure that something this light isappropriate to your application. This rod is perfect for small-mediumdriesor wets in 40' wide rivers, or spring creeks, IMHO. (Betcha Marinaro wouldhave liked this rod.)That said, this is one of three rods that is always ready in the trunkof my car.Best regards,Reed Fishnabug@aol.com wrote: D.The one I'm looking at is a 9' #3. It look farily light and furthercomments state that one can easily fish this rod all day without tiring.Any suggestions?David from rcurry@ttlc.net Sat Oct 23 20:19:39 1999 Subject: Re: silk lines slight return --------------B8F4600CB9B130554D954BF5 George,I noticed silk lines named as follows:Ashaway ---- Crandall, American FinishGladding ---- Saline, Otselic, TadpoleWeber ---- HenshallCarter --- MayfairNewton --- StreamlineSunset --- SharpshooterRain-Beau ----Marathon ---U.S. Line Co. ---Shakespeare --- New Lasalle, CadillacCortland --- Cortline Cam-O-FlageUnknown --- Streammaster, FairplayGudebrod Best regards,Reed "George M. Aldrich" wrote: There was also Ashaway, and Gudebrod, and even Cortland, perhaps ? GMA ----- Original Message -----From: bob maulucci Sent: Friday, October 15, 1999 1:22 AMSubject: silk lines slight returnAnyone familiar with silk line brand names? How about:Commander Cuttyhunk,Sunset, Surf Chief and Newton's Expert. Any help will beappreciated.Bob Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com productionswebsite, audio, and print designhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbob@downandacross.com --------------B8F4600CB9B130554D954BF5 George, HenshallCarter --- Mayfair StreamlineSunset --- SharpshooterRain-Beau ----Marathon ---U.S. Line Co. --- Cam-O-Flage FairplayGudebrodBest regards,Reed "George M. Aldrich" wrote: There was also Ashaway, and Gudebrod, ----- Original Message ----- From:bobmaulucci Sent: Friday, October 15, 1999 1:22AM Subject: silk lines slight return Cuttyhunk,Sunset, Surf Chief and Newton's Expert. Any help will be appreciated.BobBob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com productionswebsite, audio, and print designhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbob@downandacross.com --------------B8F4600CB9B130554D954BF5-- from saweiss@flash.net Sat Oct 23 23:39:00 1999 Subject: Re: Fw: Cork Turning Rig your Shop-Vac nozzle behind the turning grip by taping or wiring thenozzle to a vertical support. The cork particles are light enough to getsucked right down. My Vac has a 2" opening, so I don't even use it with anozzle.Steve Weiss I've had good results using a drywall sanding screen--I'ts coarser thansandpaper and doesn't clog easily. It works cork down prettyquickly-- might be a good step after using a rasp. I'f dust is aproblem, coerce a helper to hold a shop-vac nozzle nearby while you'returning. I usually have to buy my daughter off with the promise of atrip to the mall to get her to help.George M. Aldrich wrote: ----- Original Message -----From: George M. Aldrich Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 12:47 PMSubject: Re: Cork Turning Get a NEW wood rasp, for roughing it out, leaving it about 1/8" overwhat you want when finished. from there, various grades of sandpaperwill finish it. You don't want a really rough rasp, but a medium cuttype, will shape fine, without tearing. GMA ----- Original Message -----From: Tim & Jilly Watson Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 11:23 AMSubject: Cork Turning Can you machine cork in a lathe?Yes I know I can put the handle in the lathe and sand itdown but has anyone tried to rough cut it to shape with atool bit? I suspect that it will tear but what happens ifyou take the speed up?With a 27" handle to shape it would make life easier?ThanksTim. from saweiss@flash.net Sat Oct 23 23:54:37 1999 Subject: Re: Taper for a 9' # 3 or 4 two piece Reed,How about the taper on that rod?Steve Weiss David,I think I know the taper of which you speak. I've used that rod forbothtrout and smallmouths, even in fast water. It's great fun to cast andalwaysperforms well; but a 3wt is not a general purpose rod, IMHO -- landing a13"smallie in rapids calls for more wood than that.A 3wt 9' is a rare bird, I searched for years before Tom Smithwickwaskind enough to direct me to that rod. Be sure that something this light isappropriate to your application. This rod is perfect for small-mediumdriesor wets in 40' wide rivers, or spring creeks, IMHO. (Betcha Marinarowouldhave liked this rod.)That said, this is one of three rods that is always ready in the trunkof my car.Best regards,Reed Fishnabug@aol.com wrote: D.The one I'm looking at is a 9' #3. It look farily light and furthercomments state that one can easily fish this rod all day without tiring.Any suggestions?David from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Oct 24 07:54:58 1999 Subject: Re: Fw: Cork Turning Harry,If you go to Sherwin-Williams paint or any of the major hardware/paintstores like Lowes, Wallmart etc you can buy a block that attaches to your vacuum that holds the sanding screens. I have one and use it all the time,only need one person that way. Price? Around $20.00.Bret from watson@cape-consult.co.uk Sun Oct 24 07:59:44 1999 Sun, 24 Oct 1999 13:59:20 GMT Subject: Re: Varnish I ONLY use Epifanes. I've tried all sorts of others that are available inthe UK and none have the same finish and characteristics. I am in theyachting industry so have plenty of contacts who use varnishes and whilstitis not unanimous Epifanes certainly have the majority. I have some datasheets from them so if anyone is interested give me yr fax number and I'llsend them on.T----- Original Message ----- Subject: Varnish I just visited my local marine supply company here in Maine anddiscoveredsome Epifane spar varnish - made in Holland. They also carry Pettit andInterlux. The salesperson thought the Epifane was the best stuff (alsothemost expensive). Does anyone out there have any exprience or knowledgeofthese brands. TIA, Dave from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Oct 24 09:35:10 1999 "saweiss@flash.net" Subject: Re: Fw: Cork Turning Steve That works - I do that but cork dust is like dry wall dust and is veryfine and will clog your shop vac filter after awhile - now for the tip ofthe day -the larger hardware stores sell insert bags for the shop vac so thateverything goes into the bag and the filter stays clean - when the bag is full justthrow itaway - it really saves a lot of headaches and also keeps the dust and messdown. Chris On Sat, 23 Oct 1999 22:39:24 -0600, Steven Weiss wrote: Rig your Shop-Vac nozzle behind the turning grip by taping or wiring thenozzle to a vertical support. The cork particles are light enough to getsucked right down. My Vac has a 2" opening, so I don't even use it with anozzle.Steve Weiss I've had good results using a drywall sanding screen--I'ts coarser thansandpaper and doesn't clog easily. It works cork down prettyquickly-- might be a good step after using a rasp. I'f dust is aproblem, coerce a helper to hold a shop-vac nozzle nearby while you'returning. I usually have to buy my daughter off with the promise of atrip to the mall to get her to help.George M. Aldrich wrote: ----- Original Message -----From: George M. Aldrich Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 12:47 PMSubject: Re: Cork Turning Get a NEW wood rasp, for roughing it out, leaving it about 1/8" overwhat you want when finished. from there, various grades of sandpaperwill finish it. You don't want a really rough rasp, but a medium cuttype, will shape fine, without tearing. GMA ----- Original Message -----From: Tim & Jilly Watson Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 11:23 AMSubject: Cork Turning Can you machine cork in a lathe?Yes I know I can put the handle in the lathe and sand itdown but has anyone tried to rough cut it to shape with atool bit? I suspect that it will tear but what happens ifyou take the speed up?With a 27" handle to shape it would make life easier?ThanksTim. from rp43640@online-club.de Sun Oct 24 15:40:53 1999 Sun, 24 Oct 1999 22:40:56 +0200 (METDST) Subject: Re: Cork Turning Hardy used to do this. There is an old film showing how they made theirrods and a short sequence shows how they shape the cork handle. Christian Tim & Jilly Watson schrieb: Can you machine cork in a lathe?Yes I know I can put the handle in the lathe and sand it down but hasanyone tried to rough cut it to shape with a tool bit? I suspect thatit will tear but what happens if you take the speed up?With a 27" handle to shape it would make life easier?ThanksTim. from fquinchat@locl.net Sun Oct 24 18:40:20 1999 corsair.locl.net Sun, 24 Oct 1999 Subject: Reel seat threads I planning on making an inserted reel seat using 3/4 NS tubing turned =down and threaded 11/16 - 16 or possibly 11 TPI. For a reel seat =application, what % of the thread should be left flat? Or, what should =the OD and ID be before threading? Any thoughts on this and does anyone have a proven design? Dennis Bertram I planning on making an inserted = 3/4 NS tubing turned down and threaded 11/16 - 16 or possibly 11 = what should the OD and ID be before threading? Any thoughts on this and doesanyone = proven design? Dennis =Bertram from HARMS1@prodigy.net Sun Oct 24 18:58:33 1999 Sun, 24 Oct 1999 19:58:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Want to be rodmakers Tony, Until quite recently, I used only Elmer's Carpenter Glue in my rods. =Three of my favorite rods are over twenty years old now, have caught =hundreds of fish, and been exposed to the full range of inclimate =weather. None of these rods have shown signs of de-lamination and all = The reasons for switching to Urac are that I can enjoy longer working =time for straightening sections after wrapping, and run less risk of =opening the glue joints when I heat-straighten after removing the = from that, I have nothing to complain of in my years with Elmer. cheers, Bill-----Original Message-----From: Dell = Date: Friday, October 22, 1999 1:55 PMSubject: Re: Want to be rodmakers I thought that maybe I was the only one cheap enough to try Elmer's =glue. Ithink that any of the wood working glues are stronger than the =bamboo inthat the bamboo will pull apart before the glue lets go. Then there =is talkof slippage of the glue line with some glues, I don't believe itDell, in digest landDell & Marie CoppockThe Flyfisher& the Quilterhttp://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail dellc@nextdim.comflyfisher@nextdim.com----- Original Message -----From: Tony Spezio Sent: Thursday, October 21, 1999 8:27 PMSubject: Want to be rodmakers I hope I don't get stomped on for this message.I was intimidated about making bamboo rods fornine years because of all that I read and heard.The glue lines, twists, bends, tempering, nodes,heat treating oven, planes, hock blades, 6000 gritsharpening stones, planing forms, and the listgoes on. I spent nine years trying to get thesethings so I can start making rods.Wayne convinced me I could make my metal forms, soI did. Took me four evenings. Other than drillingand tapping I used a Vixen file and a trianglefile to make them. Made my binder in one day andoven in a few days.What I am trying to say is these things can bedone and not take a lifetime to do.I have a plane that came from Sears about 45 yearsago, I don't even use the 9 1/2. don't feel asgood as the old Sears. I have not used the 6000stone for sharpening yet, I am still using the3.50 stone I got at a flea market. I don't knowwhat angle I sharpened the blade at, it just cutsgood. The oven was made from some insulated panelscut out of metal insulated doors.I made a Garrison type binder with a few minorchanges and have no problems that I can see. finish on the gluing surfaces are real smooth as Ican scrape right down to the planing form. I have8 rod blanks and 2 completed rods made and see noglue lines. This was my biggest worry that theglue lines would stand out like a sore thumb.These rods and blanks were made over a period ofthree months. I did have a problem with splittingmy first culm. It did not take long to rectifythat. I even went back to the scrap and salvagedmost of it after I learned to split 32 strips fromthe top section of a culm. It only took one culmto learn.Now I know I will get some flack, the glue isElmers Exterior Carpenters Glue. I did some testson it am satisfied that the rods will staytogether. I have over 50 fish on rod # 1 and ithas been soaked several times. OK these rods arenot being sold, they are gifts so I can take achance on the glue. If I ever decide to sell someI will look into another type of glue. I have hadno problem with short working time. I have had notwisting and the blanks are straight. Maybe I havebeen lucky so far.This is it, if you are intimidated like I wasforget it and start making rods. I guess what I amtrying to say is, you don't need that fancy plane,blade, stone, scraper ect. That can come later,get started with what you have if you want to makea rod..Wow, I have it off my chest now.Someone said it a little stronger in a previousmessage, the only way to learn is to do it.BTW, these rods amaze me the way they cast andhandle line.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tony, Until quiterecently, = twenty years old now, have caught hundreds of fish, and been exposed to = = The reasons for = are that I can enjoy longer working time for straightening sections = wrapping, and run less risk of opening the glue joints when I = from that, I have= complain of in my years with Elmer. Bill -----Original = = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Friday, October 22, 1999 1:55 PMSubject: Re: Want to = rodmakersI thought that maybe I was the only = enough to try Elmer's glue. Ithink that any of the wood working = are stronger than the bamboo inthat the bamboo will pull apart = the glue lets go. Then there is talkof slippage of the glue line = some glues, I don't believe itDell, in digest landDell & = flyfisher@nextdim.com----- = <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= = from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Oct 24 19:39:23 1999 Sun, 24 Oct 1999 19:36:56 -0500 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Want to be rodmakers 3D7C2112E1E49A655157CC6E" --------------3D7C2112E1E49A655157CC6E The reason I am using Elmer's glue is the simplefact that is all that is available where I live.It is a hassle to order something that you don'tknow anything about. I had posted a message that Iwas ready to glue and got several messages offlist that Elmer's glue is what they were using.That is all I needed to go with it. I thought Iwould just do my first rod with that glue, but Icould not keep myself from using it again once Igot started. I glued up two tip sections lastnight and one had a slight bend two inches fromthe tip. This morning, it just took a pass overthe heat gun and it was straight. The working timemay be short but as I said, I have had no problemsyet. I may have some sometime, it will beinevitable. I just got some Epon and will try itwhen I start the new batch of rods. I will takeseveral of the glued sections to the SRG to becritiqued. Out of the 10 blanks, I have only hadto straighten two tip sections right at the tip.Am I doing something wrong by getting the sticksstraight the first time. I guess my time willcome. I do roll the bundle and lay them in a 60*groove that I routed in a length of hardwood withshot bags on top of the strip. I hang the tipthread wrap just past the end of the V groove asnot to bend the tip. That is where I had thestraightening to do when I overlooked it.Dell, I don't think you are cheap, it works, don'tit.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com WILLIAM A HARMS wrote: Tony, Until quite recently, I used only Elmer'sCarpenter Glue in my rods. Three of my favoriterods are over twenty years old now, have caughthundreds of fish, and been exposed to the fullrange of inclimate weather. None of these rodshave shown signs of de-lamination and all remainin constant service. The reasons for switchingto Urac are that I can enjoy longer working time run less risk of opening the glue joints when Iheat-straighten after removing the string.Apart from that, I have nothing to complain of inmy years with Elmer. cheers, Bill -----Original Message-----From: Dell ;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Friday, October 22, 1999 1:55 PM Subject: Re: Want to be rodmakersIthought that maybe I was the only onecheap enough to try Elmer's glue. Ithink that any of the wood workingglues are stronger than the bamboo inthat the bamboo will pull apart beforethe glue lets go. Then there is talkof slippage of the glue line with someglues, I don't believe itDell, in digest landDell & Marie CoppockThe Flyfisher& the Quilterhttp://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail dellc@nextdim.comflyfisher@nextdim.com----- Original Message -----From: Tony Spezio Sent: Thursday, October 21, 1999 8:27PMSubject: Want to be rodmakers I hope I don't get stomped on forthis message.I was intimidated about makingbamboo rods fornine years because of all that Iread and heard.The glue lines, twists, bends,tempering, nodes,heat treating oven, planes, hockblades, 6000 gritsharpening stones, planing forms,and the listgoes on. I spent nine years tryingto get thesethings so I can start making rods.Wayne convinced me I could make mymetal forms, soI did. Took me four evenings. Otherthan drillingand tapping I used a Vixen file anda trianglefile to make them. Made my binderin one day andoven in a few days.What I am trying to say is thesethings can bedone and not take a lifetime to do.I have a plane that came from Searsabout 45 yearsago, I don't even use the 9 1/2.don't feel asgood as the old Sears. I have notused the 6000stone for sharpening yet, I am stillusing the3.50 stone I got at a flea market. Idon't knowwhat angle I sharpened the blade at,it just cutsgood. The oven was made from someinsulated panelscut out of metal insulated doors.I made a Garrison type binder with afew minorchanges and have no problems that Ican see. blades. Thefinish on the gluing surfaces arereal smooth as Ican scrape right down to the planingform. I have8 rod blanks and 2 completed rodsmade and see noglue lines. This was my biggestworry that theglue lines would stand out like asore thumb.These rods and blanks were made overa period ofthree months. I did have a problemwith splittingmy first culm. It did not take longto rectifythat. I even went back to the scrapand salvagedmost of it after I learned to split32 strips fromthe top section of a culm. It onlytook one culmto learn.Now I know I will get some flack,the glue isElmers Exterior Carpenters Glue. Idid some testson it am satisfied that the rodswill staytogether. I have over 50 fish on rod# 1 and ithas been soaked several times. OKthese rods arenot being sold, they are gifts so Ican take achance on the glue. If I ever decideto sell someI will look into another type ofglue. I have hadno problem with short working time.I have had notwisting and the blanks arestraight. Maybe I havebeen lucky so far.This is it, if you are intimidatedlike I wasforget it and start making rods. Iguess what I amtrying to say is, you don't needthat fancy plane,blade, stone, scraper ect. That cancome later,get started with what you have ifyou want to makea rod..Wow, I have it off my chest now.Someone said it a little stronger ina previousmessage, the only way to learn is todo it.BTW, these rods amaze me the waythey cast andhandle line.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com --------------3D7C2112E1E49A655157CC6E The reason I am using Elmer's glue is the simple fact that is all thatis available where I live. It is a hassle to order something that you don'tknow anything about. I had posted a message that I was ready to glue andgot several messages off list that Elmer's glue is what they were using.That is all I needed to go with it. I thought I would just do my firstrod with that glue, but I could not keep myself from using it again onceI got started. I glued up two tip sections last night and one had a slightbend two inches from the tip. This morning, it just took a pass over theheat gun and it was straight. The working time may be short but as I said,I have had no problems yet. I may have some sometime, it will beinevitable.I just got some Epon and will try it when I start the new batch of rods.I will take several of the glued sections to the SRG to be critiqued. Outof the 10 blanks, I have only had to straighten two tip sections right straightthe first time. I guess my time will come. I do roll the bundle and laythem in a 60* groove that I routed in a length of hardwood with shot bagson top of the strip. I hang the tip thread wrap just past the end of theV groove as not to bend the tip. That is where I had the straighteningto do when I overlooked it.Dell, I don't think you are cheap, it works, don't it. WILLIAM A HARMS wrote: of my favorite rods are over twenty years old now, have caught hundreds None of these rods have shown signs of de-lamination and all remain in reasons for switching to Urac are that I can enjoy longer working time Apartfromthat, I have nothing to complain of in my years with Bill-----OriginalMessage-----From: Dell <dellc@nextdim.com> rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu<rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu>Date: Friday, October 22,19991:55 PMSubject: Re: Want to berodmakersIthought that maybe I was the only one cheap enough to try Elmer's glue.Ithink that any of the wood working glues are stronger than thebamboointhat the bamboo will pull apart before the glue lets go. Then thereis talkof slippage of the glue line with some glues, I don't believe itDell, in digest landDell & Marie CoppockThe Flyfisher& the Quilterhttp://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e- mail dellc@nextdim.com flyfisher@nextdim.com----- Original Message -----From: Tony Spezio <flytyr@southshore.com> Sent: Thursday, October 21, 1999 8:27 PMSubject: Want to be rodmakers I hope I don't get stomped on for this message.I was intimidated about making bamboo rods fornine years because of all that I read and heard.The glue lines, twists, bends, tempering, nodes,heat treating oven, planes, hock blades, 6000 gritsharpening stones, planing forms, and the listgoes on. I spent nine years trying to get thesethings so I can start making rods.Wayne convinced me I could make my metal forms, soI did. Took me four evenings. Other than drillingand tapping I used a Vixen file and a triangle oven in a few days.What I am trying to say is these things can bedone and not take a lifetime to do.I have a plane that came from Sears about 45 yearsago, I don't even use the 9 1/2. don't feel asgood as the old Sears. I have not used the 6000stone for sharpening yet, I am still using the3.50 stone I got at a flea market. I don't knowwhat angle I sharpened the blade at, it just cutsgood. The oven was made from some insulated panelscut out of metal insulated doors.I made a Garrison type binder with a few minorchanges and have no problems that I can see. finish on the gluing surfaces are real smooth as Ican scrape right down to the planing form. I have8 rod blanks and 2 completed rods made and see noglue lines. This was my biggest worry that theglue lines would stand out like a sore thumb.These rods and blanks were made over a period ofthree months. I did have a problem with splittingmy first culm. It did not take long to rectifythat. I even went back to the scrap and salvagedmost of it after I learned to split 32 strips fromthe top section of a culm. It only took one culmto learn.Now I know I will get some flack, the glue isElmers Exterior Carpenters Glue. I did some testson it am satisfied that the rods will staytogether. I have over 50 fish on rod # 1 and ithas been soaked several times. OK these rods arenot being sold, they are gifts so I can take achance on the glue. If I ever decide to sell someI will look into another type of glue. I have had twisting and the blanks are straight. Maybe I havebeen lucky so far.This is it, if you are intimidated like I wasforget it and start making rods. I guess what I amtrying to say is, you don't need that fancy plane,blade, stone, scraper ect. That can come later,get started with what you have if you want to makea rod..Wow, I have it off my chest now.Someone said it a little stronger in a previousmessage, the only way to learn is to do it.BTW, these rods amaze me the way they cast andhandle line. --------------3D7C2112E1E49A655157CC6E-- from sats@gte.net Sun Oct 24 20:35:47 1999 Subject: Building outside the box Part 1 Those of you who are confirmed traditionalist may want to hit the *delete * keynow. The following is definitely thinking outside the box. I showed up at last years SRG with some short FAST three piece bamboorods. (Iwas hoping that, during the gathering, one or more of them would break. Theydid not.) During the gathering I was ask about my method of building theseparticular rods -- removing bamboo from the OUTSIDE of the shaft oflarger rods.At the time I wasn't ready to say much because, as far as I knew, I wasthe onlyone doing such heresy. I haven't come to any definite conclusions, but Inowhave some suspicion's and ideas. To the people who were interested lastOctoberand to those who would like to know more about how a bamboo rod works,here aresome Ideas and observations. Flyrods -- all of them -- are made for two very different functions:Castingline and fighting fish. The rod tapers from the butt, to the tip, allowingtheAngler to pass large amounts of energy through the rod to the line. Thinkofcasting a broomstick. All energy passed to the broomstick would godirectly tothe tip. In a rod, the energy is `stored' in the flex, then returned at(hopefully) the best time. On the other hand Fighting a fish on the tip (or pulling a fly out of a treebythe rod tip) is courting disaster. Once the fish is on the rod, force isdistributed evenly along the entire rod. All thought it's a tradeoff mostrodsare designed to Cast more then to fight fish. A rod will ALWAYS break at it's weakest point. This is one of those thingsthatwe know without thinking about, but we should think about . In the designofrods, the weakest point may not be the tip. In all the rods I've had break,(including some Cortlands, that were engineered so poorly that I wentthrough 4before I got one that would stand up to fishing) all but one failed close toaferrule. Bamboo is a good rod building media because of it's weight to strengthratio andbecause of it * Resonance *. In this case I'm referring to Resonance astherod's ability to return to a straight configuration very quickly. Think ofcasting the broomstick again. Or think of casting a straightened out coathanger. One won't bend enough to do the job and the other will bend butwon'treturn the energy. There are a great many materials that are to brittle ortosoft to be used as fly rods. Bamboo rod building involves working in 3 dimensions. Most tapers aregiven"flat to flat" or two dimensions, however Bamboo rod building involves(usually)building a solid. Where graphite rods have all their material around theircircumference, bamboo rod have material throughout the rod. Bamboo has the strongest fibers on the outside and the weakest fiberstowardit's center. Discussions of bamboo in almost any text will illustrate thebuttend of a single strip. (Terry A. has a Very good close up photo of Bamboofibers on his web page.) The fibers closest to the outside of bamboo arethinand closely packed. As we move toward the center of the strip thosefibersbecome fatter, but are spaced further apart, Eventually you have only pith. Inhis book, Wayne C. says that he can judge the amount of "power" fibers bypicking up a culm of bamboo. This is the basic medium we're working with. It's limitations andstrengths.Most are apparent, but we must recognize then if we want to go beyondcopyingsomeone else. from noblur@stic.net Sun Oct 24 20:45:48 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-60503U15500L11000S0V35) Subject: Re: Building outside the box Part 1 I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop ! Don't stop there ! GMA Sent: Sunday, October 24, 1999 9:26 PMSubject: Building outside the box Part 1 Those of you who are confirmed traditionalist may want to hit the * =delete * key I showed up at last years SRG with some short FAST three piece bamboo=rods. (Iwas hoping that, during the gathering, one or more of them would =break. Theydid not.) During the gathering I was ask about my method of building =theseparticular rods -- removing bamboo from the OUTSIDE of the shaft of =larger rods.At the time I wasn't ready to say much because, as far as I knew, I =was the onlyone doing such heresy. I haven't come to any definite conclusions, =but I nowhave some suspicion's and ideas. To the people who were interested =last Octoberand to those who would like to know more about how a bamboo rod works,=here are Flyrods -- all of them -- are made for two very different functions: =Castingline and fighting fish. The rod tapers from the butt, to the tip, =allowing theAngler to pass large amounts of energy through the rod to the line. =Think ofcasting a broomstick. All energy passed to the broomstick would go =directly tothe tip. In a rod, the energy is 'stored' in the flex, then returned =at On the other hand Fighting a fish on the tip (or pulling a fly out of =a tree bythe rod tip) is courting disaster. Once the fish is on the rod, force =isdistributed evenly along the entire rod. All thought it's a tradeoff =most rods A rod will ALWAYS break at it's weakest point. This is one of those =things thatwe know without thinking about, but we should think about . In the =design ofrods, the weakest point may not be the tip. In all the rods I've had =break,(including some Cortlands, that were engineered so poorly that I went =through 4before I got one that would stand up to fishing) all but one failed =close to aferrule. Bamboo is a good rod building media because of it's weight to strength =ratio andbecause of it * Resonance *. In this case I'm referring to Resonance =as therod's ability to return to a straight configuration very quickly. =Think ofcasting the broomstick again. Or think of casting a straightened out =coathanger. One won't bend enough to do the job and the other will bend =but won'treturn the energy. There are a great many materials that are to =brittle or to Bamboo rod building involves working in 3 dimensions. Most tapers are =given"flat to flat" or two dimensions, however Bamboo rod building involves =(usually)building a solid. Where graphite rods have all their material around =their Bamboo has the strongest fibers on the outside and the weakest fibers =towardit's center. Discussions of bamboo in almost any text will illustrate =the buttend of a single strip. (Terry A. has a Very good close up photo of =Bamboofibers on his web page.) The fibers closest to the outside of bamboo =are thinand closely packed. As we move toward the center of the strip those =fibersbecome fatter, but are spaced further apart, Eventually you have only =pith. Inhis book, Wayne C. says that he can judge the amount of "power" fibers =by This is the basic medium we're working with. It's limitations and =strengths.Most are apparent, but we must recognize then if we want to go beyond =copying ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- Terry L. = = Sent: Sunday, October 24, 1999 = PMSubject: Building outside the = 1Those of you who are confirmed traditionalist may want= gathering I was ask about my method of building theseparticular = removing bamboo from the OUTSIDE of the shaft of larger rods.At = wasn't ready to say much because, as far as I knew, I was the = interested last Octoberand to those who would like to know more = a bamboo rod works, here aresome Ideas and observations. = -- all of them -- are made for two very different functions: = the fish is on the rod, force isdistributed evenly along the = to Cast more then to fight fish. A rod will ALWAYS break at = I went through 4before I got one that would stand up to fishing) = one failed close to aferrule.Bamboo is a good rod building = because of it's weight to strength ratio andbecause of it * = that are to brittle or tosoft to be used as fly rods. = given"flat to flat" or two dimensions, however Bamboo rod building = the strip those fibersbecome fatter, but are spaced further = It's limitations and strengths.Most are apparent, but we must = from saltwein@swbell.net Mon Oct 25 04:51:48 1999 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8) Subject: SRG Good Morning All, Heading out the door, should be in Cotter around 10:30. I will be atChamberlains if anyone else is going to be there early and wants to gettogether. Looking forward to seeing everyone. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Oct 25 10:02:26 1999 Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:02:20 -0700 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: SRG I probably won't get there till Thursday. Anybody else going early? Harry Steve Trauthwein wrote: Good Morning All, Heading out the door, should be in Cotter around 10:30. I will be atChamberlains if anyone else is going to be there early and wants to gettogether. Looking forward to seeing everyone. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from caneman@clnk.com Mon Oct 25 10:17:20 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:15:52 -0500 Subject: Re: SRG I'll be there sometime around noon on thursday... just depends on how quickmy coffee kicks in Thursday Morning! Bob N. -----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: SRG I probably won't get there till Thursday. Anybody else going early? Harry Steve Trauthwein wrote: Good Morning All, Heading out the door, should be in Cotter around 10:30. I will be atChamberlains if anyone else is going to be there early and wants to gettogether. Looking forward to seeing everyone. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Oct 25 10:41:13 1999 Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:38:33 -0500 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: SRG Harry,I am already here, Jim Hatfield will be here tomorrow.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Harry Boyd wrote: I probably won't get there till Thursday. Anybody else going early? Harry Steve Trauthwein wrote: Good Morning All, Heading out the door, should be in Cotter around 10:30. I will be atChamberlains if anyone else is going to be there early and wants to gettogether. Looking forward to seeing everyone. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from pdcorlis@nidc.edu Mon Oct 25 11:39:01 1999 with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:41:28 -0700 Subject: More Cheap Tricks? Ok, so I'm usually a lurker... you know a guy raising a family dreaming ofthe day I toocan start building bamboo rods. So, I've really enjoyed reading the recentwanna-berodmakers posts. They are very encouraging and make me think I should trybuilding a rodNOW. At the risk of chewing up valuable "bandwith" and insulting anyonealready deeplyinto the craft, I'd love to see more advice and suggestions for someonejust startingout. What tricks, tips, advice or suggestions would you give your bestfriend? Wherecan you save money and time, and where should you not try to skimp? I know there are many skill levels to this or any endevor and I have the utmost respect helping uswanna-be's learn just a bit more? Hope You Can Help! Phil Corlis from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Mon Oct 25 11:43:40 1999 Subject: lathe Hello All,I'm ready to buy a lathe, does anyone know about the sherline or where to get one? from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Oct 25 11:43:58 1999 JAA08754; (5.5.2448.0) Subject: RE: More Cheap Tricks? read the archives, everything you asked about is there!!!!!!!! Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Monday, October 25, 1999 9:41 AM Subject: More Cheap Tricks? Ok, so I'm usually a lurker... you know a guy raising a family dreaming ofthe day Itoo can start building bamboo rods. So, I've really enjoyed reading therecent wanna-berodmakers posts. They are very encouraging and make me think I should trybuilding a rodNOW. At the risk of chewing up valuable "bandwith" and insulting anyonealready deeplyinto the craft, I'd love to see more advice and suggestions for someonejust startingout. What tricks, tips, advice or suggestions would you give your bestfriend? Wherecan you save money and time, and where should you not try to skimp? I know there are many skill levels to this or any endevor and I have the utmostrespect for all of you who create rods at the peak of perfection, but howabout helpingus wanna-be's learn just a bit more? Hope You Can Help! Phil Corlis from DNHayashida@aol.com Mon Oct 25 11:55:54 1999 Subject: Re: More Cheap Tricks? All you really need is bamboo, a planing form, a plane,and other things you already have lying around the house.Everything else makes it easier and/or quicker, but youcan make a bamboo rod that will cast a line and catcha fish with just those items.Darryl from myfish@dial.pipex.com Mon Oct 25 12:31:27 1999 0000 Subject: first considerations hi.i am going to build a bamboo rod.i have very few tools.(1) who makes the best(affordable planing forms)?.(2) if i cannot get an old stanley 9 1/2 will a record do the jobor should i get a lie nielson ?.(3) i wanted to build a short 6 1/2 or 7 ' rod so would it be betterto build the rod in one piece ?.--Keith. from mleider@UDel.Edu Mon Oct 25 13:15:51 1999 Subject: Re: first considerations well....i guess these are some pretty easy questions to answer... 1. i have Colorado Bootstrap forms and have been very happy w/ them sofar. There are other alternatives however. Lon Blauvent(http://members.tripod.com/BamBooFlyRods/flyrods.html) offers them forabout the same price as Bootstrap. I have seen these forms before andtheylook to be of good quality. Of course another alternative would be to makethem yourself out of maple or steel.....but that's another story :-) myfirst set of forms were maple and worked fine, but eventually i had tomoveup to steel...and i'm glad as hell i did...the difference is phenominal. 2. well, you can get a new Stanley 9 1/2 for about $28 i think (don'tquote me on this...i'm at school right now and away from my collection ofcatalogs) from William Alden? woodworking. Most will say that theRecordis a better plane, and i'd have to agree w/ them. Also, the blade in theRecord is MUCH better than the cheap Stanley blade, and doesn'tnecessarilyhave to be replaced w/ a Hock like the Stanley does. The Lie-Neilson is alow angle block plane if i'm not mistaken....or did they come out w/another model? I'd stay away from low angle planes, but if they do have ahigher angle block plane on the market i'm sure it's a work of art like alltheir other products. But i'm happy with a nice Stanley or Record 9 1/2,fitted w/ a Hock blade of course. 3. One piece rods are nice. The action is smoother IMHO, but their aredrawbacks, as with anything. First, transporting a 7' rod may be aproblem....or not, depending on your situation. To make a 7' 1pc, or a6'6" for that matter, would require you to either get 12' culms, splicemore bamboo onto each strip, or make it nodeless. I've never build anodeless, and i'm sure some will argue the fact that i think they look moredifficult to make....i think at least while you're starting out, i'd stickwith regular old noded rods, like the good old days :-) wait, i'm only 18,i don't know what the good old days were, oh well, i was there in spirit iguess :-) Also, with a 2pc. rod, if the tip breaks, you just need to makea new tip...small price to pay for probably a mistake on your part. With a1 pc, if the tip breaks, well, good luck...hopefully it wouldn't too far from the top and the TT could just be reset....and if it's not, get out thesplicing blocks :-) I have nothing against 1pc. rods...i have 2 and likethem very much, i just prefer the convenience of a nice 2pc. hope this helps alittle at least....the most important thing is to diveright in and try to have fun....good luck! At 06:37 PM 10/25/99 +0100, Keith White wrote:hi.i am going to build a bamboo rod.i have very few tools.(1) who makes the best(affordable planing forms)?.(2) if i cannot get an old stanley 9 1/2 will a record do the jobor should i get a lie nielson ?.(3) i wanted to build a short 6 1/2 or 7 ' rod so would it be betterto build the rod in one piece ?.--Keith. Matt Leidermanmleider@udel.edu -- AOL: Brodieman5"Trying to save myself but myself keeps slipping away...." -NIN- from eestlow@srminc.com Mon Oct 25 13:31:02 1999 Subject: Re: Building outside the box Part 1 1999) at 10/25/9901:25:10 PM Excellent treatise. I would offer one correction. A rod will break at itspoint of highest stress at the instant of breakage, not at its "weakestpoint," which is where the least material is - the tip. The actual locationof highest stress will move around, depending on whether one is casting orfighting a fish - even during each. Think of the question of fighting afish off the tip vs. the butt of the rod. Makers really make rods in fourdimensions - length, width, thickness...... and time! (to the extent thattiming enters into casting or fighting a fish) You hit on this lastdimension when you bring up the question of resonance - or naturalfrequency. Best,-Ed sats@gte.net (Terry L. Sent by: cc:owner-rodmakers@wugate Subject: Building outsidethe boxPart 1 .wustl.edu 10/24/99 09:26 PMPlease respond to sats Those of you who are confirmed traditionalist may want to hit the *delete* keynow. The following is definitely thinking outside the box. I showed up at last years SRG with some short FAST three piece bamboorods.(Iwas hoping that, during the gathering, one or more of them would break.Theydid not.) During the gathering I was ask about my method of building theseparticular rods -- removing bamboo from the OUTSIDE of the shaft oflargerrods.At the time I wasn't ready to say much because, as far as I knew, I wastheonlyone doing such heresy. I haven't come to any definite conclusions, but Inowhave some suspicion's and ideas. To the people who were interested lastOctoberand to those who would like to know more about how a bamboo rod works,herearesome Ideas and observations. Flyrods -- all of them -- are made for two very different functions:Castingline and fighting fish. The rod tapers from the butt, to the tip, allowingtheAngler to pass large amounts of energy through the rod to the line. Thinkofcasting a broomstick. All energy passed to the broomstick would godirectly tothe tip. In a rod, the energy is 'stored' in the flex, then returned at(hopefully) the best time.On the other hand Fighting a fish on the tip (or pulling a fly out of atree bythe rod tip) is courting disaster. Once the fish is on the rod, force isdistributed evenly along the entire rod. All thought it's a tradeoff mostrodsare designed to Cast more then to fight fish. A rod will ALWAYS break at it's weakest point. This is one of those thingsthatwe know without thinking about, but we should think about . In the designofrods, the weakest point may not be the tip. In all the rods I've hadbreak,(including some Cortlands, that were engineered so poorly that I wentthrough 4before I got one that would stand up to fishing) all but one failed closeto aferrule. Bamboo is a good rod building media because of it's weight to strengthratio andbecause of it * Resonance *. In this case I'm referring to Resonance astherod's ability to return to a straight configuration very quickly. Think ofcasting the broomstick again. Or think of casting a straightened out coathanger. One won't bend enough to do the job and the other will bend butwon'treturn the energy. There are a great many materials that are to brittle ortosoft to be used as fly rods. Bamboo rod building involves working in 3 dimensions. Most tapers aregiven"flat to flat" or two dimensions, however Bamboo rod building involves(usually)building a solid. Where graphite rods have all their material aroundtheircircumference, bamboo rod have material throughout the rod. Bamboo has the strongest fibers on the outside and the weakest fiberstowardit's center. Discussions of bamboo in almost any text will illustrate thebuttend of a single strip. (Terry A. has a Very good close up photo of Bamboofibers on his web page.) The fibers closest to the outside of bamboo arethinand closely packed. As we move toward the center of the strip thosefibersbecome fatter, but are spaced further apart, Eventually you have onlypith. Inhis book, Wayne C. says that he can judge the amount of "power" fibers bypicking up a culm of bamboo. This is the basic medium we're working with. It's limitations andstrengths.Most are apparent, but we must recognize then if we want to go beyondcopyingsomeone else. from rmoon@ida.net Mon Oct 25 13:40:28 1999 0000 Subject: Re: first considerations Philip and Keith I built my first rod from a 6' culm of bamboo, 2 three foot maplesticks with two tapered grooves on each and an exacto plane 2" long. Imade a wooden binding machine along the Herter design. It was a goodrod, but looked like hell. I still prize it. If you want to build rodsyou can do it at any level you want. As Matt Leiderman ( a gentlemanmore sage than his years indicate) says. Just get in and do it. Ralph from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Mon Oct 25 13:48:03 1999 Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:47:44 -0400 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: first considerations (1) YOU make the best (affordable) planing forms. See Wayne Cattanach'sbook if you want to make metal ones. A lot of people on the list, yourstruly included, have made them from wood and are very happy. TonyYoung'sweb site has some great advice for making wooden forms. (2) Why spend the money on a Lie-Nielsen or Record or "old" Stanley? Getanew Stanley. They're cheap and perfectly adequate. Contrary to what some may tell you, you don't have to replace the bladewitha hock blade. If you get it sharp enough to begin with, you won't have toresharpen more than once or twice in the making of the rod. That's aboutten minutes out of the forty hours or more you're going to spend on thething. (3) People will go on and on about how you MUST have this or that high endexpensive tool or piece of equipment. Don't listen to them. They'll scareyou off. -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, October 25, 1999 1:37 PM Subject: first considerations hi.i am going to build a bamboo rod.i have very few tools.(1) who makes the best(affordable planing forms)?.(2) if i cannot get an old stanley 9 1/2 will a record do the jobor should i get a lie nielson ?.(3) i wanted to build a short 6 1/2 or 7 ' rod so would it be betterto build the rod in one piece ?.--Keith. from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Oct 25 14:25:57 1999 1999 12:28:07 PDT greetings! i would like to contact a rod buildermidstate illinois. are there any? timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Mon Oct 25 14:27:02 1999 Subject: Re: More Cheap Tricks? This post may well illustrate the old saying about "a little knowledgebeinga dangerous thing". However as someone who starting building rods about 3years ago and has built a couple of dozen now , I can at least pass on someof my experience. I know the problem with being a learner rod builder is that the achives areless usefull as often one does not understand the terminology or knowwhichposts to look at. The following are my observations. 1. Get a modern book ,or two .Do not get Garrison before you have built 5-6 rods . If you do you willhave difficulty getting started as Garrision is very good , but verycomplicated if you do not have an understanding of what you are doing. Anyone , or even better two , of the books by Jack Howell, George Maurer, orWayne C.are fine . They each have a different approach and are all great forthe learner rodmaker. (I have all three and use them all ) 2. Do not try to do eveything at the start. The books and this list tell you how to do everything which is great, butnot to start off. I still buy my cork handle made up from Anglers workshop.There are a number of good suppliers for most of the components you needandyou are better to buy components from them rather then try to make themyourself. Buy your reel seats, cork handles , guides, ferrules etc fromestablished suppliers of the finished components. In time you can start tomake your own if it suits you . 3. Keep your initial tools simple.Contary to the advise in most of the books you do not "need" a lathe tostart with . it would be nice , but not essential particually if you arebuying in most of the components . I only recently got one and it is greatbut it would have been wrong to be learning how to drive a lathe at thesametime as every thing else to do with rodbuilding. following:- oven. Use the forced air oven powered by a heat gun as shown in the "bestof Planning form". It can be made in a couple of hours with some oldducting from the recycling centre and a rivet gun. ( I have made a fewmodificationswhich seem to make it work a little better , contact me direct for these)There is also quite a lot on the achives regarding these, generally underthe heading of convection ovens or heat gun ovens. - binder. Much of the mystery of rod building seems to be associated withthe "binder and twists " etc. I built the EZY binder designed by TomSmithwick in an afternoon and have found it simple and easy to use. I usedacouple of old tyres off an old rotary hoe rather then the pulley wheels Tomsuggested. The design of this binder is on the archives under ezy binder( Ithink) or can be obtained from Tom. - planning forms. I started by using wooden forms based on Tony Young'sdesign on his web site . They were not hard to build and were good for anumber of rods. Actually they are still ok but I have more recently builtsteel forms which were not too difficult to make. I used a dowling jig toalign the holes for both wooden and steel forms and did not have too muchtrouble. There are a number of sources for advise on building forms ,generally Chris's is considered the most comprehensive.It is not hard to doand in hindsight I might consider building the steel forms at the start. Iwould comment however that I never had a glue gap in rods made with thewooden forms , I have had gaps using the steel forms , but that may be dueto overconfidence. There is a lot on the archives regarding building forms ,generally under the appropriate heading. - other hand tools. Generally you do not need many , a light plane , somefiles , a round rasp for hollowing cork handles, a drill, and a depth guagewith a 60 degree point. - Dial gauge. A dial gauge or micrometer is the most frequently used tool.This is where it is worth spending money for the easiest to use. I initiallyhad a dial gauge but more recently bought a digitial readout model and itisgreat. Get a digital readout model from the start, it is well worth it. Mymodel is a lower cost , probably Taiwanese , model but it seems fine. 3 . Get started. This is the most common advise given and it is right. Everyrodbuilder will tell you they mucked about building equipment , readingbooks , etc and had difficulty actually starting to build rods. I gotstarted after six months of making "things" when Andy Royer emailed metosay he would put the bamboo on the transport the next day ,and would Iplease confirm that he should do that. Once I said "yes" I was commited. Finally enjoy what you are doing and do not be afraid to ask questionshere.There are a lot of very helpfull people on this list and you will usuallyget answers to any questions you may have. regards Ian Kearney At 09:41 AM 25/10/99 -0700, Philip Corlis wrote:Ok, so I'm usually a lurker... you know a guy raising a family dreaming ofthe day I too can start building bamboo rods. So, I've really enjoyedreading the recent wanna-be rodmakers posts. They are very encouragingandmake me think I should try building a rod NOW. At the risk of chewing upvaluable "bandwith" and insulting anyone already deeply into the craft, I'dlove to see more advice and suggestions for someone just starting out. Whattricks, tips, advice or suggestions would you give your best friend? Wherecan you save money and time, and where should you not try to skimp? I know there are many skill levels to this or any endevor and I have theutmost respect for all of you who create rods at the peak of perfection,buthow about helping us wanna-be's learn just a bit more? Hope You Can Help! Phil Corlis from caneman@clnk.com Mon Oct 25 14:43:29 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:42:13 -0500 Subject: Re: first considerations Keith, 1. Planing Forms: Try Colorado Bootstrap. Frank makes a pretty nice formthat is easy to adjust and is priced very reasonable. Before you invest inone to build just one rod, I would consider making a set of hardwoodforms.They work great and are MUCH cheaper as you can build them yourself. 2. Planes: I have four 9 1/2's but again, if you are not going to build amultitude of rods, you are looking at planing 18 strips. Just get a goodlow angle plane with an adjustment screw and sharpen the stock bladeoften. I knew I was going to enjoy this. 3. Rod Length: In my opinion, if I had a way to transport them, I wouldown nothing but one piece rods, but if you are going to build a 6.5 to 7footer, I would go ahead and choose a taper for a two piece rod. Extra advice... Take you time, exercise plenty of patience, and buy the bestset of leather gloves you can find!!!!!!! Bob N.-----Original Message----- Subject: first considerations hi.i am going to build a bamboo rod.i have very few tools.(1) who makes the best(affordable planing forms)?.(2) if i cannot get an old stanley 9 1/2 will a record do the jobor should i get a lie nielson ?.(3) i wanted to build a short 6 1/2 or 7 ' rod so would it be betterto build the rod in one piece ?.--Keith. from caneman@clnk.com Mon Oct 25 14:52:29 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:51:19 -0500 Subject: Re: first considerations Oops... boy from reading the posts on this, I am going to take some flackabout the low angle plane thing... personally, I don't think, if you keepyour blade as sharp as it should be and don't try to take off too muchmaterial at a time, you will have any problem at all with a low angleplane,but that is just my opinion. Nunley -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: first considerations Keith, 1. Planing Forms: Try Colorado Bootstrap. Frank makes a pretty niceformthat is easy to adjust and is priced very reasonable. Before you invest inone to build just one rod, I would consider making a set of hardwoodforms.They work great and are MUCH cheaper as you can build them yourself. 2. Planes: I have four 9 1/2's but again, if you are not going to build amultitude of rods, you are looking at planing 18 strips. Just get a goodlow angle plane with an adjustment screw and sharpen the stock bladeoften. untilI knew I was going to enjoy this. 3. Rod Length: In my opinion, if I had a way to transport them, I wouldown nothing but one piece rods, but if you are going to build a 6.5 to 7footer, I would go ahead and choose a taper for a two piece rod. Extra advice... Take you time, exercise plenty of patience, and buy thebestset of leather gloves you can find!!!!!!! Bob N.-----Original Message-----From: Keith White Date: Monday, October 25, 1999 12:31 PMSubject: first considerations hi.i am going to build a bamboo rod.i have very few tools.(1) who makes the best(affordable planing forms)?.(2) if i cannot get an old stanley 9 1/2 will a record do the jobor should i get a lie nielson ?.(3) i wanted to build a short 6 1/2 or 7 ' rod so would it be betterto build the rod in one piece ?.--Keith. from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon Oct 25 15:02:37 1999 Subject: Re: Building outside the box Part 1 I did not think that the force of a fighting fish was evenly distributeddown the entirerod.If the rod is arched and the tip is pointing directly at the fish in thedirection ofthe line there is no more stress on that section, right? This is why ifhooked on thebottom it is recommended to point the whole rod towards the snag andwalk backward. Terry L. Kirkpatrick wrote: Those of you who are confirmed traditionalist may want to hit the *delete * keynow. The following is definitely thinking outside the box. I showed up at last years SRG with some short FAST three piece bamboorods. (Iwas hoping that, during the gathering, one or more of them would break. Theydid not.) During the gathering I was ask about my method of buildingtheseparticular rods -- removing bamboo from the OUTSIDE of the shaft oflarger rods.At the time I wasn't ready to say much because, as far as I knew, I wasthe onlyone doing such heresy. I haven't come to any definite conclusions, but Inowhave some suspicion's and ideas. To the people who were interested lastOctoberand to those who would like to know more about how a bamboo rodworks, here aresome Ideas and observations. Flyrods -- all of them -- are made for two very different functions:Castingline and fighting fish. The rod tapers from the butt, to the tip, allowingtheAngler to pass large amounts of energy through the rod to the line. Thinkofcasting a broomstick. All energy passed to the broomstick would godirectly tothe tip. In a rod, the energy is `stored' in the flex, then returned at(hopefully) the best time.On the other hand Fighting a fish on the tip (or pulling a fly out of a treebythe rod tip) is courting disaster. Once the fish is on the rod, force isdistributed evenly along the entire rod. All thought it's a tradeoff mostrodsare designed to Cast more then to fight fish. A rod will ALWAYS break at it's weakest point. This is one of thosethings thatwe know without thinking about, but we should think about . In thedesign ofrods, the weakest point may not be the tip. In all the rods I've had break,(including some Cortlands, that were engineered so poorly that I wentthrough 4before I got one that would stand up to fishing) all but one failed closeto aferrule. Bamboo is a good rod building media because of it's weight to strengthratio andbecause of it * Resonance *. In this case I'm referring to Resonance astherod's ability to return to a straight configuration very quickly. Think ofcasting the broomstick again. Or think of casting a straightened out coathanger. One won't bend enough to do the job and the other will bend butwon'treturn the energy. There are a great many materials that are to brittleor tosoft to be used as fly rods. Bamboo rod building involves working in 3 dimensions. Most tapers aregiven"flat to flat" or two dimensions, however Bamboo rod building involves(usually)building a solid. Where graphite rods have all their material around theircircumference, bamboo rod have material throughout the rod. Bamboo has the strongest fibers on the outside and the weakest fiberstowardit's center. Discussions of bamboo in almost any text will illustrate thebuttend of a single strip. (Terry A. has a Very good close up photo of Bamboofibers on his web page.) The fibers closest to the outside of bamboo arethinand closely packed. As we move toward the center of the strip thosefibersbecome fatter, but are spaced further apart, Eventually you have onlypith. Inhis book, Wayne C. says that he can judge the amount of "power" fibersbypicking up a culm of bamboo. This is the basic medium we're working with. It's limitations andstrengths.Most are apparent, but we must recognize then if we want to go beyondcopyingsomeone else. from saweiss@flash.net Mon Oct 25 15:02:47 1999 Subject: Re: More Cheap Tricks? Phil,Having gone through the process over the past couple of years, I can tellyou what was most important and fun for me.1. Read some good books, such as Cattanach, Howell, Gould, Maurer,Garrison2. Read through the Rodmakers archives from start to finish. Download byhighlighting and copying a month at a time to a word processor, that letsyou delete the BS & surplus and keep what's most important in a documentofyour own. I regularly do searches of my archive material.3.Start organizing and putting together a work area and some basic toolsDepending on your time and money resources, these activities can keep youbusy for quite a while and you will learn a hell of a lot, so many questionswill not even need asking online. You will also learn that there are manyways of doing things and you can modify approaches that are suitable toyoursituation of workspace, money, & time. I have more satisfaction and prideinworking things out myself by reading and researching than by asking forsomeone's help every step of the way.Steve Weiss Ok, so I'm usually a lurker... you know a guy raising a family dreaming ofthe day I too can start building bamboo rods. So, I've really enjoyedreading the recent wanna-be rodmakers posts. They are very encouragingandmake me think I should try building a rod NOW. At the risk of chewing upvaluable "bandwith" and insulting anyone already deeply into the craft, I'dlove to see more advice and suggestions for someone just starting out. Whattricks, tips, advice or suggestions would you give your best friend? Wherecan you save money and time, and where should you not try to skimp? I know there are many skill levels to this or any endevor and I have theutmost respect for all of you who create rods at the peak of perfection,buthow about helping us wanna-be's learn just a bit more? Hope You Can Help! Phil Corlis from anglport@con2.com Mon Oct 25 16:52:22 1999 Subject: Re: More Cheap Tricks? Phil,Check out:http://www.cybercom.net/~bconner/rodNframes.htmlorhttp://kalypso.cybercom.net/~bconner/rod.htmlandhttp://www.skelleftea.se/utbildning/balder/personal/ba- mma/sidor/rod1.htmandhttp://www.sphere.ad.jp/funtail/Bamboo.htmlandhttp://www.uidaho.edu/~penr0295/Toms/bamboo.htmandhttp://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/FNeunemann/ When you start to act, check out:http://www.shavings.net/SCARY.HTM#original it'll show you how to get the plane sharp without buying $400 worth ofjapanese rocks!You may never actually get to the planing part (see Terry Ackland'spostson "Just get off your a** and DO it!"), but you'll know more than 99% ofthe population about how it works! ;-)Keep asking and we'll fine- tune ya,Art At 09:41 AM 10/25/1999 -0700, Philip Corlis wrote:Ok, so I'm usually a lurker... you know a guy raising a family dreaming ofthe day I too can start building bamboo rods. So, I've really enjoyedreading the recent wanna-be rodmakers posts. They are very encouragingandmake me think I should try building a rod NOW. At the risk of chewing upvaluable "bandwith" and insulting anyone already deeply into the craft, I'dlove to see more advice and suggestions for someone just starting out.What tricks, tips, advice or suggestions would you give your best friend?Where can you save money and time, and where should you not try toskimp? I know there are many skill levels to this or any endevor and I have theutmost respect for all of you who create rods at the peak of perfection,but how about helping us wanna-be's learn just a bit more? Hope You Can Help! Phil Corlis from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Oct 25 16:58:31 1999 Subject: Re: first considerations Bob,I am with you on that. I hog off the big stuff with an old (45 years orolder)plane and finish with a low angle till I start scraping metal. The finalfinishis done with a single edge razor. I have not got a glue line or gap tillyesterday. I tried to use a strip that was too thin to start with. That willteach me not to go to the scrap and try to get one more strip.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Bob Nunley wrote: Oops... boy from reading the posts on this, I am going to take some flackabout the low angle plane thing... personally, I don't think, if you keepyour blade as sharp as it should be and don't try to take off too muchmaterial at a time, you will have any problem at all with a low angleplane,but that is just my opinion. Nunley -----Original Message-----From: Bob Nunley Date: Monday, October 25, 1999 2:44 PMSubject: Re: first considerations Keith, 1. Planing Forms: Try Colorado Bootstrap. Frank makes a pretty niceformthat is easy to adjust and is priced very reasonable. Before you investinone to build just one rod, I would consider making a set of hardwoodforms.They work great and are MUCH cheaper as you can build them yourself. 2. Planes: I have four 9 1/2's but again, if you are not going to build amultitude of rods, you are looking at planing 18 strips. Just get a goodlow angle plane with an adjustment screw and sharpen the stock bladeoften. untilI knew I was going to enjoy this. 3. Rod Length: In my opinion, if I had a way to transport them, I wouldown nothing but one piece rods, but if you are going to build a 6.5 to 7footer, I would go ahead and choose a taper for a two piece rod. Extra advice... Take you time, exercise plenty of patience, and buy thebestset of leather gloves you can find!!!!!!! Bob N.-----Original Message-----From: Keith White Date: Monday, October 25, 1999 12:31 PMSubject: first considerations hi.i am going to build a bamboo rod.i have very few tools.(1) who makes the best(affordable planing forms)?.(2) if i cannot get an old stanley 9 1/2 will a record do the jobor should i get a lie nielson ?.(3) i wanted to build a short 6 1/2 or 7 ' rod so would it be betterto build the rod in one piece ?.--Keith. from anglport@con2.com Mon Oct 25 17:17:39 1999 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: More Cheap Tricks? our forms out here. Set the forms to any taper, plane a strip or two, resetthem to a narrower setting, and repeat. You'll have some 60 deg strips ofall sorts of (linearly changing) thicknesses which you can mike, mark, anduse to set your depths by dragging them under a 6" ruler to see if theforms are the right depth. That way if your forms are not exactly perfectover very short distances (minor bumps and troughs into which the 60 degpoint might drop) you can get well-averaged depths for your cane to set in.Art At 08:25 AM 10/26/1999 +1300, Ian Kearney wrote:This post may well illustrate the old saying about "a little knowledgebeinga dangerous thing". However as someone who starting building rods about3years ago and has built a couple of dozen now , I can at least pass onsomeof my experience. I know the problem with being a learner rod builder is that the achivesareless usefull as often one does not understand the terminology or knowwhichposts to look at. The following are my observations. 1. Get a modern book ,or two .Do not get Garrison before you have built 5-6 rods . If you do you willhave difficulty getting started as Garrision is very good , but verycomplicated if you do not have an understanding of what you are doing.Anyone , or even better two , of the books by Jack Howell, George Maurer, orWayne C.are fine . They each have a different approach and are all greatforthe learner rodmaker. (I have all three and use them all ) 2. Do not try to do eveything at the start. The books and this list tell you how to do everything which is great, butnot to start off. I still buy my cork handle made up from Anglersworkshop.There are a number of good suppliers for most of the components youneed andyou are better to buy components from them rather then try to make themyourself. Buy your reel seats, cork handles , guides, ferrules etc fromestablished suppliers of the finished components. In time you can start tomake your own if it suits you . 3. Keep your initial tools simple.Contary to the advise in most of the books you do not "need" a lathe tostart with . it would be nice , but not essential particually if you arebuying in most of the components . I only recently got one and it is greatbut it would have been wrong to be learning how to drive a lathe at thesametime as every thing else to do with rodbuilding. following:- oven. Use the forced air oven powered by a heat gun as shown in the"bestof Planning form". It can be made in a couple of hours with some oldducting from the recycling centre and a rivet gun. ( I have made a fewmodificationswhich seem to make it work a little better , contact me direct for these)There is also quite a lot on the achives regarding these, generally underthe heading of convection ovens or heat gun ovens. - binder. Much of the mystery of rod building seems to be associated withthe "binder and twists " etc. I built the EZY binder designed by TomSmithwick in an afternoon and have found it simple and easy to use. Iused acouple of old tyres off an old rotary hoe rather then the pulley wheelsTomsuggested. The design of this binder is on the archives under ezy binder( Ithink) or can be obtained from Tom. - planning forms. I started by using wooden forms based on Tony Young'sdesign on his web site . They were not hard to build and were good for anumber of rods. Actually they are still ok but I have more recently builtsteel forms which were not too difficult to make. I used a dowling jig toalign the holes for both wooden and steel forms and did not have too muchtrouble. There are a number of sources for advise on building forms ,generally Chris's is considered the most comprehensive.It is not hard todoand in hindsight I might consider building the steel forms at the start. Iwould comment however that I never had a glue gap in rods made with thewooden forms , I have had gaps using the steel forms , but that may bedueto overconfidence. There is a lot on the archives regarding building forms,generally under the appropriate heading. - other hand tools. Generally you do not need many , a light plane , somefiles , a round rasp for hollowing cork handles, a drill, and a depth guagewith a 60 degree point. - Dial gauge. A dial gauge or micrometer is the most frequently usedtool.This is where it is worth spending money for the easiest to use. Iinitiallyhad a dial gauge but more recently bought a digitial readout model and itisgreat. Get a digital readout model from the start, it is well worth it. Mymodel is a lower cost , probably Taiwanese , model but it seems fine. 3 . Get started. This is the most common advise given and it is right.Everyrodbuilder will tell you they mucked about building equipment , readingbooks , etc and had difficulty actually starting to build rods. I gotstarted after six months of making "things" when Andy Royer emailed metosay he would put the bamboo on the transport the next day ,and would Iplease confirm that he should do that. Once I said "yes" I was commited. Finally enjoy what you are doing and do not be afraid to ask questionshere.There are a lot of very helpfull people on this list and you will usuallyget answers to any questions you may have. regards Ian Kearney At 09:41 AM 25/10/99 -0700, Philip Corlis wrote:Ok, so I'm usually a lurker... you know a guy raising a family dreaming ofthe day I too can start building bamboo rods. So, I've really enjoyedreading the recent wanna-be rodmakers posts. They are very encouragingandmake me think I should try building a rod NOW. At the risk of chewing upvaluable "bandwith" and insulting anyone already deeply into the craft, I'dlove to see more advice and suggestions for someone just starting out. Whattricks, tips, advice or suggestions would you give your best friend? Wherecan you save money and time, and where should you not try to skimp? I know there are many skill levels to this or any endevor and I have theutmost respect for all of you who create rods at the peak of perfection,buthow about helping us wanna-be's learn just a bit more? Hope You Can Help! Phil Corlis from sats@gte.net Mon Oct 25 17:19:24 1999 Subject: Building outside the box Part 2 First a couple of comments. Thanks to Ed and Terence A. for theircomments,both well put. My use of the word Weakest point was meant to be the rod under abovenormalstress. Stress along a rod varies too. Unfortunately I can't find a bettertermto express my meaning. Also my example of fighting a fish was based on the assumption that therod tipand but were on the same plane. This is, of course, very seldom the case.Holding a tip high while fighting a fish puts more stress on the tipsection.Holding the tip low puts less. Now for the second part. How do you change a taper once you've built arod. The old masters "Tuned" rods after they were built, by removing excessbamboo.How far can we as rod builders take this? The following tapers are for a Granger 8' 3p 5wt from Jack Howell's bookand the6' 6" 3p 3wt from WayneCattanach's book. (I'll stop at both rod tapers atthe6'6" station.) The first column is the appx station, second is the Grangermeasurements followed by the Cattanach. The next column is thedifferencebetween the two rods. The last column is the percent difference of thelargerrod (to the whole percent. Let's not make this more complicated then itis...) tip .076 .070 .007 10%5 .078 .077 .001 1%10 .094 .093 .001 1%15 .114 .109 .005 4%20 .128 .121 .007 5%MID25 .168 .137 .011 7%30 .172 .152 .010 6%35 .190 .174 .016 8%40 .200 .185 .015 8%45 .212 .189 .023 11%BUTT50 .246 .201 .045 18% 55 .250 .217 .033 13%60 .262 .230 .032 12%65 .280 .239 .041 15%70 .295 .239 .056*75 .350 .239 .111**(These stations are under the handle and reel seat. We'll disregardthem.) Looking at the next to last column, we see the tip section is, on average,closeon each rod. However when we look at the mid section, we can see adifferenceof .015(plus/minus). That seems like a lot, until we look at the Buttsectionwhere the average difference for the fist four stations is a whopping .038!That's a lot of bamboo. But wait, there's more! Let's look at this rod as what it is -- a solid,madeof six bamboo strips. Let's say we had three rod sections that we wantedtomodify from the larger to the smaller rod. (I know this isn't going tohappenbut stick with me.) The tip section. at the tip is only .007 difference. That's only .0035 oneachstrip. If you selected a good piece of bamboo, the power fibers probablyreachto 1/2 the largest Butt measurement, or around .120 on this rod. You'reonlyremoving less then 3% of your fibers, leaving 96% in place. HOWEVER, The fibers you are removing are the best fibers. In terms of theactualstrength and resonance of the rod you've changed it more then you wanted. So tomake the tip approximate the smaller tip you might want to only remove50% ofthe difference or about .01 to .02 from each strip.That was the easy part. The obvious problem is the mid and butt section of the larger rod are TOOSTRONG, or to stiff for the smaller rod. To convert the larger sections tothesmaller, you'll need to WEAKEN them. It's easy to do by removing bamboofromthe outside. But how much should you remove to achieve a different`feel?'That's the million dollar question. There are a lot of ways to try to approximate the feel of the smaller rod. You can go to the actual measurements of the smaller rod. If you do this Icanalmost guarantee that you'll have a disaster on your hands. You will haveremoved more "Strength" from the rod then you wanted. You can remove bamboo from each section to make it "fit" the next highersection. (fit the female of the mid section to the butt of the tip and soon.)This will give you a very fast rod with weak spots just below the femaleferrules. You can remove a percent of the difference. But you have to figure outwhatpercent you really need to remove. Usually you'll need to do this only onthemid and butt sections. What happens here is that any changes in the taper,such as "hinges" (okay, okay let's not start that again) are averaged out. You can test the rods (If you have access to the two of them) fordeflection atvarious stations. It's fairly easy to do as long as you keep apples withapples. Probably the best way would be to run two stress curves, figuring thedifference between the two. Then make the rod you're modifying matchthe stresscurve of the rod you want to copy. Which ever way, one thing to remember is, you will remove the betterbamboo andleave the lesser. (better and less being relative terms here.) I've discovered that you can remove up to 70% of the difference withoutanyproblem if you keep in mind that a rod will break at it's weakest/higheststressed point.. So You CAN remove a lot of Bamboo from a rod if the taper you're workingto is agood taper. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Oct 25 17:41:42 1999 Tue, 26 Oct 1999 06:41:28 +0800 Subject: Re: first considerations That's right. The bigest problem when begining is keeping the width of thethoat and depth of cut under control and keeping the ironsharp. I don't usegloves because once you need excessive force to hold the strip whileplaning it's time to resharpen the iron. Tony At 02:50 PM 10/25/99 -0500, Bob Nunley wrote:Oops... boy from reading the posts on this, I am going to take some flackabout the low angle plane thing... personally, I don't think, if you keepyour blade as sharp as it should be and don't try to take off too muchmaterial at a time, you will have any problem at all with a low angleplane,but that is just my opinion. Nunley -----Original Message-----From: Bob Nunley Date: Monday, October 25, 1999 2:44 PMSubject: Re: first considerations Keith, 1. Planing Forms: Try Colorado Bootstrap. Frank makes a pretty niceformthat is easy to adjust and is priced very reasonable. Before you investinone to build just one rod, I would consider making a set of hardwoodforms.They work great and are MUCH cheaper as you can build them yourself. 2. Planes: I have four 9 1/2's but again, if you are not going to build amultitude of rods, you are looking at planing 18 strips. Just get a goodlow angle plane with an adjustment screw and sharpen the stock bladeoften. untilI knew I was going to enjoy this. 3. Rod Length: In my opinion, if I had a way to transport them, I wouldown nothing but one piece rods, but if you are going to build a 6.5 to 7footer, I would go ahead and choose a taper for a two piece rod. Extra advice... Take you time, exercise plenty of patience, and buy thebestset of leather gloves you can find!!!!!!! Bob N.-----Original Message-----From: Keith White Date: Monday, October 25, 1999 12:31 PMSubject: first considerations hi.i am going to build a bamboo rod.i have very few tools.(1) who makes the best(affordable planing forms)?.(2) if i cannot get an old stanley 9 1/2 will a record do the jobor should i get a lie nielson ?.(3) i wanted to build a short 6 1/2 or 7 ' rod so would it be betterto build the rod in one piece ?.--Keith. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Oct 25 17:43:55 1999 Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:43:30 -0700 Subject: Re: More Cheap Tricks? Art,Thanks for the tip. I never really understood why one would use teststrips before. Goes to show I'm still learning. Next time I screw up astrip,I'll just "make a test strip" out of it.Harry Art Port wrote: our forms out here. Set the forms to any taper, plane a strip or two,resetthem to a narrower setting, and repeat. You'll have some 60 deg strips ofall sorts of (linearly changing) thicknesses which you can mike, mark,anduse to set your depths by dragging them under a 6" ruler to see if theforms are the right depth. That way if your forms are not exactly perfectover very short distances (minor bumps and troughs into which the 60degpoint might drop) you can get well-averaged depths for your cane to setin.Art At 08:25 AM 10/26/1999 +1300, Ian Kearney wrote:This post may well illustrate the old saying about "a little knowledgebeinga dangerous thing". However as someone who starting building rodsabout 3years ago and has built a couple of dozen now , I can at least pass onsomeof my experience. I know the problem with being a learner rod builder is that the achivesareless usefull as often one does not understand the terminology or knowwhichposts to look at. The following are my observations. 1. Get a modern book ,or two .Do not get Garrison before you have built 5-6 rods . If you do you willhave difficulty getting started as Garrision is very good , but verycomplicated if you do not have an understanding of what you are doing.Anyone , or even better two , of the books by Jack Howell, George Maurer,orWayne C.are fine . They each have a different approach and are all greatforthe learner rodmaker. (I have all three and use them all ) 2. Do not try to do eveything at the start.The books and this list tell you how to do everything which is great, butnot to start off. I still buy my cork handle made up from Anglersworkshop.There are a number of good suppliers for most of the components youneed andyou are better to buy components from them rather then try to makethemyourself. Buy your reel seats, cork handles , guides, ferrules etc fromestablished suppliers of the finished components. In time you can starttomake your own if it suits you . 3. Keep your initial tools simple.Contary to the advise in most of the books you do not "need" a lathe tostart with . it would be nice , but not essential particually if you arebuying in most of the components . I only recently got one and it isgreatbut it would have been wrong to be learning how to drive a lathe at thesametime as every thing else to do with rodbuilding. following:- oven. Use the forced air oven powered by a heat gun as shown in the"bestof Planning form". It can be made in a couple of hours with some oldducting from the recycling centre and a rivet gun. ( I have made a fewmodificationswhich seem to make it work a little better , contact me direct forthese)There is also quite a lot on the achives regarding these, generally underthe heading of convection ovens or heat gun ovens.- binder. Much of the mystery of rod building seems to be associatedwiththe "binder and twists " etc. I built the EZY binder designed by TomSmithwick in an afternoon and have found it simple and easy to use. Iused acouple of old tyres off an old rotary hoe rather then the pulley wheelsTomsuggested. The design of this binder is on the archives under ezy binder(Ithink) or can be obtained from Tom.- planning forms. I started by using wooden forms based on Tony Young'sdesign on his web site . They were not hard to build and were good for anumber of rods. Actually they are still ok but I have more recently builtsteel forms which were not too difficult to make. I used a dowling jigtoalign the holes for both wooden and steel forms and did not have toomuchtrouble. There are a number of sources for advise on building forms ,generally Chris's is considered the most comprehensive.It is not hard todoand in hindsight I might consider building the steel forms at the start. Iwould comment however that I never had a glue gap in rods made withthewooden forms , I have had gaps using the steel forms , but that may bedueto overconfidence. There is a lot on the archives regarding buildingforms ,generally under the appropriate heading.- other hand tools. Generally you do not need many , a light plane , somefiles , a round rasp for hollowing cork handles, a drill, and a depth guagewith a 60 degree point.- Dial gauge. A dial gauge or micrometer is the most frequently usedtool.This is where it is worth spending money for the easiest to use. Iinitiallyhad a dial gauge but more recently bought a digitial readout model andit isgreat. Get a digital readout model from the start, it is well worth it. Mymodel is a lower cost , probably Taiwanese , model but it seems fine. 3 . Get started. This is the most common advise given and it is right.Everyrodbuilder will tell you they mucked about building equipment , readingbooks , etc and had difficulty actually starting to build rods. I gotstarted after six months of making "things" when Andy Royer emailedme tosay he would put the bamboo on the transport the next day ,and would Iplease confirm that he should do that. Once I said "yes" I was commited. Finally enjoy what you are doing and do not be afraid to ask questionshere.There are a lot of very helpfull people on this list and you will usuallyget answers to any questions you may have. regards Ian KearneyAt 09:41 AM 25/10/99 -0700, Philip Corlis wrote:Ok, so I'm usually a lurker... you know a guy raising a family dreamingofthe day I too can start building bamboo rods. So, I've really enjoyedreading the recent wanna- be rodmakers posts. They are veryencouraging andmake me think I should try building a rod NOW. At the risk of chewingupvaluable "bandwith" and insulting anyone already deeply into the craft,I'dlove to see more advice and suggestions for someone just starting out. Whattricks, tips, advice or suggestions would you give your best friend? Wherecan you save money and time, and where should you not try to skimp? I know there are many skill levels to this or any endevor and I have theutmost respect for all of you who create rods at the peak of perfection,buthow about helping us wanna-be's learn just a bit more? Hope You Can Help! Phil Corlis from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon Oct 25 18:03:52 1999 Subject: Re: Building outside the box Part 2 I can understand if you had a 6ft 6in #4 rod and scraped some cane off toproduce a6ft 6in #3 but to suggest you can turn an 8ft # 5 into a 6ft 6in #3 is notpracticaljust for the ferrule placement alone. You would have to cut down thesections makingthe removal of even more cane necessary so that the cane diameters wouldmatch forferrule fitting.Rather like suggesting you drive your Lincoln Continental into a brick walltoproduce a compact!Terry Terry L. Kirkpatrick wrote: First a couple of comments. Thanks to Ed and Terence A. for theircomments,both well put. My use of the word Weakest point was meant to be the rod under abovenormalstress. Stress along a rod varies too. Unfortunately I can't find a bettertermto express my meaning. Also my example of fighting a fish was based on the assumption thatthe rod tipand but were on the same plane. This is, of course, very seldom the case.Holding a tip high while fighting a fish puts more stress on the tipsection.Holding the tip low puts less. Now for the second part. How do you change a taper once you've built arod.The old masters "Tuned" rods after they were built, by removing excessbamboo.How far can we as rod builders take this? The following tapers are for a Granger 8' 3p 5wt from Jack Howell'sbook and the6' 6" 3p 3wt from WayneCattanach's book. (I'll stop at both rod tapersat the6'6" station.) The first column is the appx station, second is theGrangermeasurements followed by the Cattanach. The next column is thedifferencebetween the two rods. The last column is the percent difference of thelargerrod (to the whole percent. Let's not make this more complicated then itis...) tip .076 .070 .007 10%5 .078 .077 .001 1%10 .094 .093 .001 1%15 .114 .109 .005 4%20 .128 .121 .007 5%MID25 .168 .137 .011 7%30 .172 .152 .010 6%35 .190 .174 .016 8%40 .200 .185 .015 8%45 .212 .189 .023 11%BUTT50 .246 .201 .045 18%55 .250 .217 .033 13%60 .262 .230 .032 12%65 .280 .239 .041 15%70 .295 .239 .056*75 .350 .239 .111**(These stations are under the handle and reel seat. We'll disregardthem.) Looking at the next to last column, we see the tip section is, on average,closeon each rod. However when we look at the mid section, we can see adifferenceof .015(plus/minus). That seems like a lot, until we look at the Buttsectionwhere the average difference for the fist four stations is a whopping .038!That's a lot of bamboo. But wait, there's more! Let's look at this rod as what it is -- a solid,madeof six bamboo strips. Let's say we had three rod sections that we wantedtomodify from the larger to the smaller rod. (I know this isn't going tohappenbut stick with me.) The tip section. at the tip is only .007 difference. That's only .0035 oneachstrip. If you selected a good piece of bamboo, the power fibers probablyreachto 1/2 the largest Butt measurement, or around .120 on this rod. You'reonlyremoving less then 3% of your fibers, leaving 96% in place. HOWEVER, The fibers you are removing are the best fibers. In terms ofthe actualstrength and resonance of the rod you've changed it more then youwanted. So tomake the tip approximate the smaller tip you might want to only remove50% ofthe difference or about .01 to .02 from each strip.That was the easy part. The obvious problem is the mid and butt section of the larger rod are TOOSTRONG, or to stiff for the smaller rod. To convert the larger sectionsto thesmaller, you'll need to WEAKEN them. It's easy to do by removing bamboofromthe outside. But how much should you remove to achieve a different`feel?'That's the million dollar question. There are a lot of ways to try to approximate the feel of the smallerrod. You can go to the actual measurements of the smaller rod. If you do thisI canalmost guarantee that you'll have a disaster on your hands. You will haveremoved more "Strength" from the rod then you wanted. You can remove bamboo from each section to make it "fit" the nexthighersection. (fit the female of the mid section to the butt of the tip and soon.)This will give you a very fast rod with weak spots just below the femaleferrules. You can remove a percent of the difference. But you have to figure outwhatpercent you really need to remove. Usually you'll need to do this only onthemid and butt sections. What happens here is that any changes in thetaper,such as "hinges" (okay, okay let's not start that again) are averaged out. You can test the rods (If you have access to the two of them) fordeflection atvarious stations. It's fairly easy to do as long as you keep apples withapples. Probably the best way would be to run two stress curves, figuring thedifference between the two. Then make the rod you're modifying matchthe stresscurve of the rod you want to copy. Which ever way, one thing to remember is, you will remove the betterbamboo andleave the lesser. (better and less being relative terms here.) I've discovered that you can remove up to 70% of the difference withoutanyproblem if you keep in mind that a rod will break at it'sweakest/higheststressed point.. So You CAN remove a lot of Bamboo from a rod if the taper you'reworking to is agood taper. from fiveside@net-gate.com Mon Oct 25 18:11:20 1999 19:05:25 -0400 Subject: Taper for Orvis Flea Hi David,Sorry to be so long in getting back to you. Got involved with somesteelheads and chinooks. A 42 inch chinook will just not be rushed.I miked two Orvis Flea rods in 1970. They tracked each other pretty well.I liked the rods so I built a few. Here are the numbers measured overvarnish: 1-078, 5-093, 10-105, 15-117, 20-128, 25-140, 30-153, 35-155, 40-166, 45-185, 50-196, 55-205, 60-217, 65-234, 70-263. The top guidewas size5 and the ferrule was size 10. Just in case anyone else might be interested I'll post this to the list. Bill from anglport@con2.com Mon Oct 25 18:52:14 1999 Subject: Re: first considerations Tony,True enough on the friction test, but a beginner might have hamburgerforfingertips before he gets the feel for it. A couple of secretary'sfinger-cots from Staples or Office Depot will let you learn withoutneedingany transfusions!Art (Tony, again. Sorry for the triple-send, I thought the newbies might profit from this more than just sending it to you.)Art At 06:48 AM 10/26/1999 +0800, Tony Young wrote:That's right. The bigest problem when begining is keeping the width ofthethoat and depth of cut under control and keeping the ironsharp. I don't usegloves because once you need excessive force to hold the strip whileplaning it's time to resharpen the iron. Tony At 02:50 PM 10/25/99 -0500, Bob Nunley wrote:Oops... boy from reading the posts on this, I am going to take some flackabout the low angle plane thing... personally, I don't think, if you keepyour blade as sharp as it should be and don't try to take off too muchmaterial at a time, you will have any problem at all with a low angleplane,but that is just my opinion. Nunley -----Original Message-----From: Bob Nunley Date: Monday, October 25, 1999 2:44 PMSubject: Re: first considerations Keith, 1. Planing Forms: Try Colorado Bootstrap. Frank makes a pretty niceformthat is easy to adjust and is priced very reasonable. Before you investinone to build just one rod, I would consider making a set of hardwoodforms.They work great and are MUCH cheaper as you can build them yourself. 2. Planes: I have four 9 1/2's but again, if you are not going to build amultitude of rods, you are looking at planing 18 strips. Just get a goodlow angle plane with an adjustment screw and sharpen the stock bladeoften. untilI knew I was going to enjoy this. 3. Rod Length: In my opinion, if I had a way to transport them, I wouldown nothing but one piece rods, but if you are going to build a 6.5 to 7footer, I would go ahead and choose a taper for a two piece rod. Extra advice... Take you time, exercise plenty of patience, and buy thebestset of leather gloves you can find!!!!!!! Bob N.-----Original Message-----From: Keith White Date: Monday, October 25, 1999 12:31 PMSubject: first considerations hi.i am going to build a bamboo rod.i have very few tools.(1) who makes the best(affordable planing forms)?.(2) if i cannot get an old stanley 9 1/2 will a record do the jobor should i get a lie nielson ?.(3) i wanted to build a short 6 1/2 or 7 ' rod so would it be betterto build the rod in one piece ?.--Keith. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from rsgould@cmc.net Mon Oct 25 18:58:38 1999 Subject: Re: Building outside the box Part 1 Hi Terry,I've read both your part 1 and 2 posts on this subject and would offer thefollowing: I've seen many a rod where the tip section is short andevidentally been broken off. I don't really know if that was because the rodwas stepped on, caught in the car door, made improperly or designedpoorly.It could have been any of those reasons. I do know that breakage at theferrules is easy to cause by turning down the rod at the ferrule mountingstation and leaving a sharp shoulder there.As for taking material off the outside of a rod to change its taper andaction I'd rather build a new section and then compare the two. Once I'vegot a rod finished I'm loathe to tear it down again. It's a good idea to dotaper comparisons and stress curve comparisons before building the rodrather than afterwards.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Building outside the box Part 1 Those of you who are confirmed traditionalist may want to hit the *delete* keynow. The following is definitely thinking outside the box. I showed up at last years SRG with some short FAST three piece bamboorods. (Iwas hoping that, during the gathering, one or more of them would break.Theydid not.) During the gathering I was ask about my method of buildingtheseparticular rods -- removing bamboo from the OUTSIDE of the shaft oflargerrods.At the time I wasn't ready to say much because, as far as I knew, I wasthe onlyone doing such heresy. I haven't come to any definite conclusions, but Inowhave some suspicion's and ideas. To the people who were interested lastOctoberand to those who would like to know more about how a bamboo rodworks,here aresome Ideas and observations. Flyrods -- all of them -- are made for two very different functions:Castingline and fighting fish. The rod tapers from the butt, to the tip,allowing theAngler to pass large amounts of energy through the rod to the line. Thinkofcasting a broomstick. All energy passed to the broomstick would godirectly tothe tip. In a rod, the energy is 'stored' in the flex, then returned at(hopefully) the best time.On the other hand Fighting a fish on the tip (or pulling a fly out of atree bythe rod tip) is courting disaster. Once the fish is on the rod, force isdistributed evenly along the entire rod. All thought it's a tradeoffmost rodsare designed to Cast more then to fight fish. A rod will ALWAYS break at it's weakest point. This is one of thosethings thatwe know without thinking about, but we should think about . In thedesignofrods, the weakest point may not be the tip. In all the rods I've hadbreak,(including some Cortlands, that were engineered so poorly that I wentthrough 4before I got one that would stand up to fishing) all but one failed closeto aferrule. Bamboo is a good rod building media because of it's weight to strengthratio andbecause of it * Resonance *. In this case I'm referring to Resonance astherod's ability to return to a straight configuration very quickly. Thinkofcasting the broomstick again. Or think of casting a straightened out coathanger. One won't bend enough to do the job and the other will bend butwon'treturn the energy. There are a great many materials that are to brittleor tosoft to be used as fly rods. Bamboo rod building involves working in 3 dimensions. Most tapers aregiven"flat to flat" or two dimensions, however Bamboo rod building involves(usually)building a solid. Where graphite rods have all their material aroundtheircircumference, bamboo rod have material throughout the rod. Bamboo has the strongest fibers on the outside and the weakest fiberstowardit's center. Discussions of bamboo in almost any text will illustrate thebuttend of a single strip. (Terry A. has a Very good close up photo ofBamboofibers on his web page.) The fibers closest to the outside of bamboo arethinand closely packed. As we move toward the center of the strip thosefibersbecome fatter, but are spaced further apart, Eventually you have onlypith. Inhis book, Wayne C. says that he can judge the amount of "power" fibers bypicking up a culm of bamboo. This is the basic medium we're working with. It's limitations andstrengths.Most are apparent, but we must recognize then if we want to go beyondcopyingsomeone else. from Fishnabug@aol.com Mon Oct 25 19:15:21 1999 Subject: Subj: Re: first considerations Low angle planes. I use mine to do the final planing to take off the last 1000's to 3000's and it performs wonderfully. I get fine results.David Maxey from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Oct 25 20:13:41 1999 Subject: Re: Building outside the box Part 1 Terry,If you have dense fibers all the way through the cross section of the rod taking material from the outside should not hurt anything. On occasion if I have too great a dimension at a given station I'll sand the outside to dimension. If anyone brings up "continuity of fibers" as a reason not tosand the outside remind them that the outside fibers lose continuity as thetaper almost never follows the culm and if noded you have lost continuityanyway, there are a ton of myths in this game.Regards,Hank W. from channer@hubwest.com Mon Oct 25 21:13:47 1999 Subject: Re: first considerations At 07:55 PM 10/25/1999 -0400, Art Port wrote:Tony,True enough on the friction test, but a beginner might havehamburger forfingertips before he gets the feel for it. A couple of secretary'sfinger-cots from Staples or Office Depot will let you learn withoutneedingany transfusions!Art Come on Art, if it's worth doing, it's worth bleeding over a little bit!.If you don't get a few cuts then you never toughen up your finger tipsenough to get along without gloves. Of course, with my 36 grit hands ihavea bit of a head start. All you guys that don't want to wear gloves whenplaning , do concrete and carpentry work for about 20 years first.John from EESweet@aol.com Mon Oct 25 23:48:44 1999 Subject: Nodeless Question Hi All, Well, I split the cane for my first rod today which I'll be making nodeless. I heat treated the cane sections prior to splitting as I'd heard it would make that part easier. I have to say, the splitting went really well, uniform sizes and all that. But now I'm wondering, what (if anything)should I do about the curves in split pieces? Should I bundle them together and heat them again, try straightening them after they've been spliced, or will they tend to straiten as I plane them? Help! Thanks for any help, Eric Sweet from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Oct 25 23:51:30 1999 Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:51:13 +0800 Subject: Re: first considerations Art,Decided it was a good idea to send to the list also. I removed the names toprotect the innocent. ;-) you're right. I tend to forget I came into this game with a pretty goodknowlage of plane opperation and things from building boats andinstrumentsetc and rod making as far as the plaing goes is easier than some of thethings I've made. Reminds me of when I explained to some-one who shallremain nameless how to make planing forms from wood and use a plane tomakethe taper. I explained how to mark for the taper and how planing it was byfar and away the easiest and most accurate way to get the taper smoothanddip free.After the first attempt he asked me to show him how it's done. So wewentto my bench and I wiped out my 2- 1/2' fore plane with an adjustablethroatI made years back for getting masts into 16 sides from square beforerounding them.Forgot the tourment soul was using a 9- 1/2 . Tony At 07:53 PM 10/25/99 -0400, you wrote:Tony,True enough on the friction test, but a beginner might havehamburger forfingertips before he gets the feel for it. A couple of secretary'sfinger-cots from Staples or Office Depot will let you learn withoutneedingany transfusions!Art At 06:48 AM 10/26/1999 +0800, you wrote:That's right. The bigest problem when begining is keeping the width ofthethoat and depth of cut under control and keeping the ironsharp. I don'tusegloves because once you need excessive force to hold the strip whileplaning it's time to resharpen the iron. Tony At 02:50 PM 10/25/99 -0500, Bob Nunley wrote:Oops... boy from reading the posts on this, I am going to take some flackabout the low angle plane thing... personally, I don't think, if you keepyour blade as sharp as it should be and don't try to take off too muchmaterial at a time, you will have any problem at all with a low angleplane,but that is just my opinion. Nunley -----Original Message-----From: Bob Nunley Date: Monday, October 25, 1999 2:44 PMSubject: Re: first considerations Keith, 1. Planing Forms: Try Colorado Bootstrap. Frank makes a pretty niceformthat is easy to adjust and is priced very reasonable. Before youinvest inone to build just one rod, I would consider making a set of hardwoodforms.They work great and are MUCH cheaper as you can build them yourself. 2. Planes: I have four 9 1/2's but again, if you are not going to build amultitude of rods, you are looking at planing 18 strips. Just get a goodlow angle plane with an adjustment screw and sharpen the stock bladeoften. untilI knew I was going to enjoy this. 3. Rod Length: In my opinion, if I had a way to transport them, I wouldown nothing but one piece rods, but if you are going to build a 6.5 to 7footer, I would go ahead and choose a taper for a two piece rod. Extra advice... Take you time, exercise plenty of patience, and buy thebestset of leather gloves you can find!!!!!!! Bob N.-----Original Message-----From: Keith White Date: Monday, October 25, 1999 12:31 PMSubject: first considerations hi.i am going to build a bamboo rod.i have very few tools.(1) who makes the best(affordable planing forms)?.(2) if i cannot get an old stanley 9 1/2 will a record do the jobor should i get a lie nielson ?.(3) i wanted to build a short 6 1/2 or 7 ' rod so would it be betterto build the rod in one piece ?.--Keith. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Oct 25 23:54:21 1999 Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:54:07 +0800 Subject: Re: first considerations John,absolutely right, but I try staying away from concrete, it's bad for mynails ;-) Tony At 08:15 PM 10/25/99 -0600, channer wrote:At 07:55 PM 10/25/1999 - 0400, Art Port wrote:Tony,True enough on the friction test, but a beginner might havehamburger forfingertips before he gets the feel for it. A couple of secretary'sfinger-cots from Staples or Office Depot will let you learn withoutneedingany transfusions!Art Come on Art, if it's worth doing, it's worth bleeding over a little bit!.If you don't get a few cuts then you never toughen up your finger tipsenough to get along without gloves. Of course, with my 36 grit hands ihavea bit of a head start. All you guys that don't want to wear gloves whenplaning , do concrete and carpentry work for about 20 years first.John /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Tue Oct 26 00:04:04 1999 (5.5.2448.0) Subject: RE: Nodeless Question Hi Eric,don't worry about the slight curve in the pieces. Just go ahead,splice them together and they'll straighten out as you plane them. Whichrod are you building by the way? Welcome to the dark side Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: Nodeless Question Hi All, Well, I split the cane for my first rod today which I'll be making nodeless. I heat treated the cane sections prior to splitting as I'd heard it would make that part easier. I have to say, the splitting went really well, uniform sizes and all that. But now I'm wondering, what (if anything)should I do about the curves in split pieces? Should I bundle them together and heat them again, try straightening them after they've been spliced, or will they tend to straiten as I plane them? Help! Thanks for any help, Eric Sweet from EESweet@aol.com Tue Oct 26 00:20:55 1999 Subject: Re: Nodeless Question Hi Mike, Well, that's a relief! I'm putting together a Dickerson 8014 (the 1949model on pg. 47 in Howell's book) for a trip to New Zealand. Three weeks to go, hope I make it. Thanks, happy to be here (always had a soft spot for the underdog). Eric Hi Eric,don't worry about the slight curve in the pieces. Just go ahead,splice them together and they'll straighten out as you plane them. Whichrod are you building by the way? Welcome to the dark side Mike from EESweet@aol.com Tue Oct 26 00:21:21 1999 Subject: Re: Nodeless Question Hi Tony, Great to hear, I thought maybe I had overlooked a step along the way. I'll make sure to glue soon after cutting the scarf, any idea why that would matter though? When you say plane the enamel side, we're talking just a thou or two to smooth the scarf line, right? Just checking. Thanks, Eric Eric,Provided you've removed the nodes don't do anything with them fromhereexcept scarf them Curves wont hurt hurt anything because at the planingstage make sure you get a good edge on one side using either yor initialorsecond form if you use these and the other side will follow. As youplanemore the strip will straighten out as long as you keep an eye on theprogress and don't just plane away and find one side is great and theotherhas dips. Also, make sure you plane the enamel side long before gettingnear final dimensions so there are no bumps caused by the ends of thescarfs making the spline sit proud at these points. The better you makethescarfs the less you'll have to plane the enamel side.If you take good care making the scarfs the amount you'll need plane theenamel side wont be much at all. Rough scarfs or scarfs with a thickleading edge will make you need to plane too much away into the powerfibers so keep in mind the scarfing is a very important stage if you'reafter a good outcome.Just try it on one strip and you'll see what I mean.You'll also get better bonding on the scarfs if you glue them pretty closeto the time you cut the scarfs ie no more than a day or so and don't sandthe scarfs, use a sharp iron on your plane. Tony from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Tue Oct 26 00:33:49 1999 (5.5.2448.0) Art Port Subject: RE: first considerations Hi everyone,the poor tormented soul Tony mentioned was yours truly. Youshould have seen the stunned look on his face when I told him how I hadtackled the job. It was a bit like using a tack hammer to drive in a sixinch nail but it did the job. I'll know better next time. I must thankTony for trying to spare me the indignity of public ridicule for myignorance, but it might help a few of the newbies just get on with the joband stop worrying about doing everything the "right" way. Hell, I only ownone plane (Record 9 1/2), my forms are wood, I set the form depth by eyewith a 60 degree point and calipers, I glue with Resourcinol and I don'towna binder (I do that by hand). I'd love to have a few thousand dollars worthof steel forms, Lie Nielsen planes, lathe and other tools but I just don'tneed all that stuff to make perfectly good rods. I'll get shot for this I'msure. Gone to hide under the bed till the posse is gone Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: first considerations Art,Decided it was a good idea to send to the list also. I removed the names toprotect the innocent. ;-) you're right. I tend to forget I came into this game with a pretty goodknowlage of plane opperation and things from building boats andinstrumentsetc and rod making as far as the plaing goes is easier than some of thethings I've made. Reminds me of when I explained to some-one who shallremain nameless how to make planing forms from wood and use a plane tomakethe taper. I explained how to mark for the taper and how planing it was byfar and away the easiest and most accurate way to get the taper smoothanddip free.After the first attempt he asked me to show him how it's done. So wewentto my bench and I wiped out my 2- 1/2' fore plane with an adjustablethroatI made years back for getting masts into 16 sides from square beforerounding them.Forgot the tourment soul was using a 9- 1/2 . Tony At 07:53 PM 10/25/99 -0400, you wrote:Tony,True enough on the friction test, but a beginner might havehamburger forfingertips before he gets the feel for it. A couple of secretary'sfinger-cots from Staples or Office Depot will let you learn withoutneedingany transfusions!Art At 06:48 AM 10/26/1999 +0800, you wrote:That's right. The bigest problem when begining is keeping the width ofthethoat and depth of cut under control and keeping the ironsharp. I don'tusegloves because once you need excessive force to hold the strip whileplaning it's time to resharpen the iron. Tony At 02:50 PM 10/25/99 -0500, Bob Nunley wrote:Oops... boy from reading the posts on this, I am going to take some flackabout the low angle plane thing... personally, I don't think, if you keepyour blade as sharp as it should be and don't try to take off too muchmaterial at a time, you will have any problem at all with a low angleplane,but that is just my opinion. Nunley -----Original Message-----From: Bob Nunley Date: Monday, October 25, 1999 2:44 PMSubject: Re: first considerations Keith, 1. Planing Forms: Try Colorado Bootstrap. Frank makes a pretty niceformthat is easy to adjust and is priced very reasonable. Before youinvest inone to build just one rod, I would consider making a set of hardwoodforms.They work great and are MUCH cheaper as you can build them yourself. 2. Planes: I have four 9 1/2's but again, if you are not going to buildamultitude of rods, you are looking at planing 18 strips. Just get agoodlow angle plane with an adjustment screw and sharpen the stock bladeoften. untilI knew I was going to enjoy this. 3. Rod Length: In my opinion, if I had a way to transport them, Iwouldown nothing but one piece rods, but if you are going to build a 6.5 to 7footer, I would go ahead and choose a taper for a two piece rod. Extra advice... Take you time, exercise plenty of patience, and buy thebestset of leather gloves you can find!!!!!!! Bob N.-----Original Message-----From: Keith White Date: Monday, October 25, 1999 12:31 PMSubject: first considerations hi.i am going to build a bamboo rod.i have very few tools.(1) who makes the best(affordable planing forms)?.(2) if i cannot get an old stanley 9 1/2 will a record do the jobor should i get a lie nielson ?.(3) i wanted to build a short 6 1/2 or 7 ' rod so would it be betterto build the rod in one piece ?.--Keith. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from mrj@aa.net Tue Oct 26 00:45:03 1999 Mon, 25 Oct 1999 22:44:41 -0700 Subject: RE: More Cheap Tricks? My only advice aside from saying that most of what I have read here inresponse to this question is good, is to not worry about your toleranceswhen you do start planing your rod. My first rod is off (in some places) by.040! and it is actually a nicer rod to cast than the original! Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: More Cheap Tricks? This post may well illustrate the old saying about "a little knowledgebeinga dangerous thing". However as someone who starting building rods about 3years ago and has built a couple of dozen now , I can at least pass on someof my experience. I know the problem with being a learner rod builder is that the achives areless usefull as often one does not understand the terminology or knowwhichposts to look at. The following are my observations. 1. Get a modern book ,or two .Do not get Garrison before you have built 5-6 rods . If you do you willhave difficulty getting started as Garrision is very good , but verycomplicated if you do not have an understanding of what you are doing. Anyone , or even better two , of the books by Jack Howell, George Maurer, orWayne C.are fine . They each have a different approach and are all great forthe learner rodmaker. (I have all three and use them all ) 2. Do not try to do eveything at the start.The books and this list tell you how to do everything which is great, butnot to start off. I still buy my cork handle made up from Anglers workshop.There are a number of good suppliers for most of the components you needandyou are better to buy components from them rather then try to make themyourself. Buy your reel seats, cork handles , guides, ferrules etc fromestablished suppliers of the finished components. In time you can start tomake your own if it suits you . 3. Keep your initial tools simple.Contary to the advise in most of the books you do not "need" a lathe tostart with . it would be nice , but not essential particually if you arebuying in most of the components . I only recently got one and it is greatbut it would have been wrong to be learning how to drive a lathe at thesametime as every thing else to do with rodbuilding. following:- oven. Use the forced air oven powered by a heat gun as shown in the "bestof Planning form". It can be made in a couple of hours with some oldducting from the recycling centre and a rivet gun. ( I have made a fewmodificationswhich seem to make it work a little better , contact me direct for these)There is also quite a lot on the achives regarding these, generally underthe heading of convection ovens or heat gun ovens.- binder. Much of the mystery of rod building seems to be associated withthe "binder and twists " etc. I built the EZY binder designed by TomSmithwick in an afternoon and have found it simple and easy to use. I usedacouple of old tyres off an old rotary hoe rather then the pulley wheels Tomsuggested. The design of this binder is on the archives under ezy binder( Ithink) or can be obtained from Tom.- planning forms. I started by using wooden forms based on Tony Young'sdesign on his web site . They were not hard to build and were good for anumber of rods. Actually they are still ok but I have more recently builtsteel forms which were not too difficult to make. I used a dowling jig toalign the holes for both wooden and steel forms and did not have too muchtrouble. There are a number of sources for advise on building forms ,generally Chris's is considered the most comprehensive.It is not hard to doand in hindsight I might consider building the steel forms at the start. Iwould comment however that I never had a glue gap in rods made with thewooden forms , I have had gaps using the steel forms , but that may be dueto overconfidence. There is a lot on the archives regarding building forms ,generally under the appropriate heading.- other hand tools. Generally you do not need many , a light plane , somefiles , a round rasp for hollowing cork handles, a drill, and a depth guagewith a 60 degree point.- Dial gauge. A dial gauge or micrometer is the most frequently used tool.This is where it is worth spending money for the easiest to use. I initiallyhad a dial gauge but more recently bought a digitial readout model and itisgreat. Get a digital readout model from the start, it is well worth it. Mymodel is a lower cost , probably Taiwanese , model but it seems fine. 3 . Get started. This is the most common advise given and it is right. Everyrodbuilder will tell you they mucked about building equipment , readingbooks , etc and had difficulty actually starting to build rods. I gotstarted after six months of making "things" when Andy Royer emailed metosay he would put the bamboo on the transport the next day ,and would Iplease confirm that he should do that. Once I said "yes" I was commited. Finally enjoy what you are doing and do not be afraid to ask questionshere.There are a lot of very helpfull people on this list and you will usuallyget answers to any questions you may have. regards Ian KearneyAt 09:41 AM 25/10/99 -0700, Philip Corlis wrote:Ok, so I'm usually a lurker... you know a guy raising a family dreaming ofthe day I too can start building bamboo rods. So, I've really enjoyedreading the recent wanna-be rodmakers posts. They are very encouragingandmake me think I should try building a rod NOW. At the risk of chewing upvaluable "bandwith" and insulting anyone already deeply into the craft, I'dlove to see more advice and suggestions for someone just starting out. Whattricks, tips, advice or suggestions would you give your best friend? Wherecan you save money and time, and where should you not try to skimp? I know there are many skill levels to this or any endevor and I have theutmost respect for all of you who create rods at the peak of perfection,buthow about helping us wanna-be's learn just a bit more? Hope You Can Help! Phil Corlis from EESweet@aol.com Tue Oct 26 01:00:42 1999 Subject: Re: Nodeless Question Tony, Thanks for all the info, just a couple more things to keep in mind... As for the nodeless vs. conventional debate, I really had no choice as I'm an apartment dweller, sans garage or workshop and so without a place tostore or use a 5' long oven. Not that I won't be an ardent supporter of nodeless! :- ) Eric I'm not a chemist but I think what happens is the cur surface will windupwith a thin but important to gluing oxidsed layer or possibly it's justsap that is still present that comes to the surface.I'd heard about the problems with teak and other oily woods. So I'massuming this is a rule to be followed re: planing and glueing the rod as well? When you say plane the enamel side, we're talking just a thou or two to smooth the scarf line, right? Just checking.You've got the picture. If you're very careful with the scarfs and theleading edges are wisper thin the amout you need to remove will beaxactlythe same as making the rod in the conventional way. This is theargumentyou'll hear when it's suggested nodeless rods are stronger thanconventional ones. It's a moot point IMHO as neither will break anyhowandthe actions are so simmilar it makes no dif, IMHO. Tony from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Oct 26 01:02:15 1999 Tue, 26 Oct 1999 13:07:44 +0800 Subject: Re: Nodeless Question Eric,Provided you've removed the nodes don't do anything with them from hereexcept scarf them Curves wont hurt hurt anything because at the planingstage make sure you get a good edge on one side using either yor initial orsecond form if you use these and the other side will follow. As you planemore the strip will straighten out as long as you keep an eye on theprogress and don't just plane away and find one side is great and the otherhas dips. Also, make sure you plane the enamel side long before gettingnear final dimensions so there are no bumps caused by the ends of thescarfs making the spline sit proud at these points. The better you makethescarfs the less you'll have to plane the enamel side.If you take good care making the scarfs the amount you'll need plane theenamel side wont be much at all. Rough scarfs or scarfs with a thickleading edge will make you need to plane too much away into the powerfibers so keep in mind the scarfing is a very important stage if you'reafter a good outcome.Just try it on one strip and you'll see what I mean.You'll also get better bonding on the scarfs if you glue them pretty closeto the time you cut the scarfs ie no more than a day or so and don't sandthe scarfs, use a sharp iron on your plane. Tony At 12:48 AM 10/26/99 -0400, EESweet@aol.com wrote:Hi All, Well, I split the cane for my first rod today which I'll be makingnodeless. I heat treated the cane sections prior to splitting as I'd heard it would make that part easier. I have to say, the splitting went really well, uniform sizes and all that. But now I'm wondering, what (if anything)should I do about the curves in split pieces? Should I bundle them together and heat them again, try straightening them after they've been spliced, orwill they tend to straiten as I plane them? Help! Thanks for any help, Eric Sweet /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from caneman@clnk.com Tue Oct 26 06:06:12 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Tue, 26 Oct 1999 06:04:43 -0500 Subject: Re: first considerations Mike,No posse here, bud! All those nice things... the Lie Neilson, theBinder, the lathe, manf'd forms, etc... are nice and NOW necessary to me(arthritis makes hand binding and tedious sanding on ferrule stations a bitannoying) but are they really necessary to make a good quality rod. Nah, Idon't think so. The most important tools you can own reside within you...patience and attention to detail!!! Bob N. (who didn't even saddle his horse or load his gun) -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: first considerations Hi everyone,the poor tormented soul Tony mentioned was yours truly. Youshould have seen the stunned look on his face when I told him how I hadtackled the job. It was a bit like using a tack hammer to drive in a sixinch nail but it did the job. I'll know better next time. I must thankTony for trying to spare me the indignity of public ridicule for myignorance, but it might help a few of the newbies just get on with the joband stop worrying about doing everything the "right" way. Hell, I onlyownone plane (Record 9 1/2), my forms are wood, I set the form depth by eyewith a 60 degree point and calipers, I glue with Resourcinol and I don'towna binder (I do that by hand). I'd love to have a few thousand dollarsworthof steel forms, Lie Nielsen planes, lathe and other tools but I just don'tneed all that stuff to make perfectly good rods. I'll get shot for thisI'msure. Gone to hide under the bed till the posse is gone Mike -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, 26 October 1999 12:59 Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: first considerations Art,Decided it was a good idea to send to the list also. I removed the namestoprotect the innocent. ;-) you're right. I tend to forget I came into this game with a pretty goodknowlage of plane opperation and things from building boats andinstrumentsetc and rod making as far as the plaing goes is easier than some of thethings I've made. Reminds me of when I explained to some-one who shallremain nameless how to make planing forms from wood and use a plane tomakethe taper. I explained how to mark for the taper and how planing it was byfar and away the easiest and most accurate way to get the taper smoothanddip free.After the first attempt he asked me to show him how it's done. So wewentto my bench and I wiped out my 2- 1/2' fore plane with an adjustablethroatI made years back for getting masts into 16 sides from square beforerounding them.Forgot the tourment soul was using a 9- 1/2 . Tony At 07:53 PM 10/25/99 -0400, you wrote:Tony,True enough on the friction test, but a beginner might havehamburger forfingertips before he gets the feel for it. A couple of secretary'sfinger-cots from Staples or Office Depot will let you learn withoutneedingany transfusions!Art At 06:48 AM 10/26/1999 +0800, you wrote:That's right. The bigest problem when begining is keeping the width ofthethoat and depth of cut under control and keeping the ironsharp. I don'tusegloves because once you need excessive force to hold the strip whileplaning it's time to resharpen the iron. Tony At 02:50 PM 10/25/99 -0500, Bob Nunley wrote:Oops... boy from reading the posts on this, I am going to take someflackabout the low angle plane thing... personally, I don't think, if youkeepyour blade as sharp as it should be and don't try to take off too muchmaterial at a time, you will have any problem at all with a low angleplane,but that is just my opinion. Nunley -----Original Message-----From: Bob Nunley Date: Monday, October 25, 1999 2:44 PMSubject: Re: first considerations Keith, 1. Planing Forms: Try Colorado Bootstrap. Frank makes a pretty niceformthat is easy to adjust and is priced very reasonable. Before youinvest inone to build just one rod, I would consider making a set of hardwoodforms.They work great and are MUCH cheaper as you can build them yourself. 2. Planes: I have four 9 1/2's but again, if you are not going tobuildamultitude of rods, you are looking at planing 18 strips. Just get agoodlow angle plane with an adjustment screw and sharpen the stockbladeoften. untilI knew I was going to enjoy this. 3. Rod Length: In my opinion, if I had a way to transport them, Iwouldown nothing but one piece rods, but if you are going to build a 6.5 to7footer, I would go ahead and choose a taper for a two piece rod. Extra advice... Take you time, exercise plenty of patience, and buy thebestset of leather gloves you can find!!!!!!! Bob N.-----Original Message-----From: Keith White Date: Monday, October 25, 1999 12:31 PMSubject: first considerations hi.i am going to build a bamboo rod.i have very few tools.(1) who makes the best(affordable planing forms)?.(2) if i cannot get an old stanley 9 1/2 will a record do the jobor should i get a lie nielson ?.(3) i wanted to build a short 6 1/2 or 7 ' rod so would it be betterto build the rod in one piece ?.--Keith. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from caneman@clnk.com Tue Oct 26 06:12:22 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Tue, 26 Oct 1999 06:11:11 -0500 Subject: Scarfs on conventional rods I have been reading the posts on nodeless rods and a question came to =mind. Almost every rod I build has scarfs in it. I usually end up =removing nodes on at least two strips at the butt end of the butt =sections so that there won't be any nodes underneath the grip and reel =seat. Does anyone else do this? If I am not mistaken, I read in the =Garrison book that EG did this... maybe that is why I do it, I don't =know... it may be a waste of time on my part. Need to mull this over a =little more! LOL Sometimes we do things from habit without really =knowing why and I really think this is one of those cases! Bob N. I have been reading the posts on = of the butt sections so that there won't be any nodes underneath the = am not mistaken, I read in the Garrison book that EG did this... maybe = cases! Bob N. from caneman@clnk.com Tue Oct 26 06:33:42 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Tue, 26 Oct 1999 06:32:32 -0500 Subject: Re: If you had to take only one OK Mike, and everyone else... here ya go. Although I am going to have tobuild another one of these, a customer borrowed it and brought me moneyinstead of my favorite rod back, so now I am down to my 8' 5wt and my6'9"2wt (both of which will be with me at the SRG, btw), so, since I am beingfair, are you gonna be fair, Mike and not build my taper until I can get myreplacement build LMAO. Just kidding. Have fun with it if you build it.Keep in mind that the dimension here is the FULL daimter. Be careful... ifyou have a graphite fisher across the river, you may over cast and poke hiseye out with your leader! LOL Actually, the rod does cast long whenneeded, but can present a very close cast with the utmost delicacy.Parabolic in nature, it has two "levers" in the rod... one that reactstowards the tip on short casts and one that reacts in the lower half of thebutt section when you have lots of line out and get the rod properly loaded. Bob N. Station Dimension 1" .0675" .07110" .09015" .10720" .12025" .14030" .15335" .17040" .18845" .20350" .21655" .22560" .23365" .24270" .25175" .25980" .27285" .289remainder .289----- Original Message----- Subject: Re: If you had to take only one OK now Bob, no fair!! How about showing us rookies the taper? Mike At 08:54 AM 10/18/99 -0500, you wrote:Well, sounds kinda self centered, but I would have to go with the rod Ifishall the time. It is a 7'6" 5 weight of my design. It casts long andshort,delicate or strong, depending on the situation and the amount of line youneed to cast... and yes, it is of a parabolic nature. Bob Doc (Mike Shaffer)(mschaffer@mindspring.com) from punky@integratedmillsystems.com Tue Oct 26 08:53:40 1999 60.ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: More Cheap Tricks? This link is no longer valid. Instead try http://www.geocities.com/penr0295/forms.htm Good instructions on making planing forms. Keith -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: More Cheap Tricks? Phil,Check out: http://www.uidaho.edu/~penr0295/Toms/bamboo.htm from caneman@clnk.com Tue Oct 26 10:09:18 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: RE: Nunley's taperRe: If you had to take only one OK. Steve asked this question and I understand why, so let me explainsomething about this rod. Normally, one might figure the tapers throughthe"action" of the rod only, and this rod is tapered all the way to the reelseat. When you fish this rod, the levers or bending points are at the tipand in the butt section (ie; parabolic) but when a fish is on the line, withthis taper into the handle, you get a little better feel of the fish! Makesense? Nah, probably not, but it does make a difference in feel from astraight and level section through the handle to a "taper" within thehandle... so, answer to the question is, Yes, it is a 7'6" rod. Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: If you had to take only one Bob,is this rod 7'6" or 7'9"?Steve OK Mike, and everyone else... here ya go. Although I am going to have tobuild another one of these, a customer borrowed it and brought memoneyinstead of my favorite rod back, so now I am down to my 8' 5wt and my6'9"2wt (both of which will be with me at the SRG, btw), so, since I ambeingfair, are you gonna be fair, Mike and not build my taper until I can getmyreplacement build LMAO. Just kidding. Have fun with it if you build it.Keep in mind that the dimension here is the FULL daimter. Be careful...ifyou have a graphite fisher across the river, you may over cast and pokehiseye out with your leader! LOL Actually, the rod does cast long whenneeded, but can present a very close cast with the utmost delicacy.Parabolic in nature, it has two "levers" in the rod... one that reactstowards the tip on short casts and one that reacts in the lower half ofthebutt section when you have lots of line out and get the rod properlyloaded. Bob N. Station Dimension 1" .0675" .07110" .09015" .10720" .12025" .14030" .15335" .17040" .18845" .20350" .21655" .22560" .23365" .24270" .25175" .25980" .27285" .289remainder .289----- Original Message-----From: michael w. shaffer Date: Monday, October 18, 1999 9:47 AMSubject: Re: If you had to take only one OK now Bob, no fair!! How about showing us rookies the taper? Mike At 08:54 AM 10/18/99 -0500, you wrote:Well, sounds kinda self centered, but I would have to go with the rod Ifishall the time. It is a 7'6" 5 weight of my design. It casts long andshort,delicate or strong, depending on the situation and the amount of lineyouneed to cast... and yes, it is of a parabolic nature. Bob Doc (Mike Shaffer)(mschaffer@mindspring.com) from caneman@clnk.com Tue Oct 26 10:11:47 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Tue, 26 Oct 1999 10:10:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Nunley's taperRe: If you had to take only one below, I will have my 8 ft 5 wt with me at SRG and anyone that wants tocastor fish it is more than welcome. OK. Steve asked this question and I understand why, so let me explainsomething about this rod. Normally, one might figure the tapers throughthe"action" of the rod only, and this rod is tapered all the way to the reelseat. When you fish this rod, the levers or bending points are at the tipand in the butt section (ie; parabolic) but when a fish is on the line,withthis taper into the handle, you get a little better feel of the fish! Makesense? Nah, probably not, but it does make a difference in feel from astraight and level section through the handle to a "taper" within thehandle... so, answer to the question is, Yes, it is a 7'6" rod. Bob -----Original Message-----From: Steven Weiss Date: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 9:53 AMSubject: Re: If you had to take only one Bob,is this rod 7'6" or 7'9"?Steve OK Mike, and everyone else... here ya go. Although I am going to havetobuild another one of these, a customer borrowed it and brought memoneyinstead of my favorite rod back, so now I am down to my 8' 5wt and my6'9"2wt (both of which will be with me at the SRG, btw), so, since I ambeingfair, are you gonna be fair, Mike and not build my taper until I can getmyreplacement build LMAO. Just kidding. Have fun with it if you buildit.Keep in mind that the dimension here is the FULL daimter. Be careful...ifyou have a graphite fisher across the river, you may over cast and pokehiseye out with your leader! LOL Actually, the rod does cast long whenneeded, but can present a very close cast with the utmost delicacy.Parabolic in nature, it has two "levers" in the rod... one that reactstowards the tip on short casts and one that reacts in the lower half ofthebutt section when you have lots of line out and get the rod properlyloaded. Bob N. Station Dimension 1" .0675" .07110" .09015" .10720" .12025" .14030" .15335" .17040" .18845" .20350" .21655" .22560" .23365" .24270" .25175" .25980" .27285" .289remainder .289----- Original Message-----From: michael w. shaffer Date: Monday, October 18, 1999 9:47 AMSubject: Re: If you had to take only one OK now Bob, no fair!! How about showing us rookies the taper? Mike At 08:54 AM 10/18/99 -0500, you wrote:Well, sounds kinda self centered, but I would have to go with the rodIfishall the time. It is a 7'6" 5 weight of my design. It casts long andshort,delicate or strong, depending on the situation and the amount of lineyouneed to cast... and yes, it is of a parabolic nature. Bob Doc (Mike Shaffer)(mschaffer@mindspring.com) from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Tue Oct 26 11:38:58 1999 (8.8.4/8.6.8) with Subject: Re: Nodeless Question Eric, As people have replied, a gentle or general curve to the stripdoesn't matter much, but sometimes a strip will have a decideddogleg right near the end. This means you cut too close to thenode. I'd shorten or straighten these strips. Sometimes there is crooked "grain" near the node. It doesn't pay to cut too close.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Tue, 26 Oct 1999 EESweet@aol.com wrote: Hi All, Well, I split the cane for my first rod today which I'll be makingnodeless. I heat treated the cane sections prior to splitting as I'd heard it would make that part easier. I have to say, the splitting went really well, uniform sizes and all that. But now I'm wondering, what (if anything)should I do about the curves in split pieces? Should I bundle them together and heat them again, try straightening them after they've been spliced, orwill they tend to straiten as I plane them? Help! Thanks for any help, Eric Sweet from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Oct 26 13:13:28 1999 1999 11:13:57 PDT Subject: arkansas greetings! all you lucky sons-o'-guns going toarkansas this week remember us others that aren'tgoing to get there for one reason or another and besure and talk about it when you get back. GOODFISHING! i want to here about dryfly fishing on thewhite. timothy troester ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from hexagon@odyssee.net Tue Oct 26 15:21:15 1999 Subject: Re: Building outside the box Part 1 Hank,What would be the point of a rodmaker trying to turn an 8ft #5 into a 6.5#3 rodwhen we could produce the real Mcoy quicker.Now an unscrupulous fixer upper sort of guy could benefit from doing thiscuttingdown because of the premium put on shorter rods.The grain of cane gets coarser as the more material you remove from theoutside.This may or may not effect the strength of the cane but the smallest nodeareaand the finest grain I was told by a dealer and a real rodmaker(apprenticed),was the mark of a good rod. This is besides the usual other stuff.I believe that the moisture resistance is greater in the close fibers on theoutside than those loosly packed deeper in the cane.Look at the jpeg in my web page(I had forgot about that) The cross sectionshowswhat look like plates that that are joined up only at the very outside ofthecane.I think it is important, Terry FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: Terry,If you have dense fibers all the way through the cross section of therodtaking material from the outside should not hurt anything. On occasion ifIhave too great a dimension at a given station I'll sand the outside todimension. If anyone brings up "continuity of fibers" as a reason not tosandthe outside remind them that the outside fibers lose continuity as thetaperalmost never follows the culm and if noded you have lost continuityanyway,there are a ton of myths in this game.Regards,Hank W. from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Oct 26 15:45:35 1999 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8) Subject: HEAD COUNT - GW Bishop Gathering 10/29-1031 All those planning to participate in the GW Bishop Gathering this =weekend, could you please email me OFF LISTt so that we can get a head =count? If you need more info, you can find it on my website at =www.bamboorods.homepage.com go to the forums and calendar of events =sections and there is Chuck's address, telephone and directions and a = Be there or be square... Regards, Darrell Lee Chuck's email address is CAIrvinerods@aol.com All those planning to = GW Bishop Gathering this weekend, could you please email me OFF LISTt so= can get a head count? If you need more info, youcan = go to the forums and calendar of events sections and there is Chuck's = telephone and directions and a loose agenda. Be there or be =square... Regards, Darrell Lee Chuck's email address isCAIrvinerods@aol.com from caneman@clnk.com Tue Oct 26 16:24:24 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:23:14 -0500 Subject: Fw: Building outside the box Part 1 -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Building outside the box Part 1 I have to agree, Terry. I have heard of "tuning" by removing material fromthe outside of a rod, but in my experience, you can actually change thespine of a cane rod with only a few quick passes of 400 grit sandpaper,sothe removal of the outer layers MUST have an adverse effect on theoverallphysical integrity of the rod. My opinion... the power fibers on theoutside, just under the enamel, are the essence of the rod, and areextremely important to its strength, durabililty, power and just asimportant, its appearance. Fine grain and small nodes... you can't keepthose aspects if you sand, scrape or plane away the outer layer of thecane. Bob N. -----Original Message-----From: TERENCE ACKLAND Cc: sats@gte.net ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 3:23 PMSubject: Re: Building outside the box Part 1 Hank,What would be the point of a rodmaker trying to turn an 8ft #5 into a 6.5#3 rodwhen we could produce the real Mcoy quicker.Now an unscrupulous fixer upper sort of guy could benefit from doingthiscuttingdown because of the premium put on shorter rods.The grain of cane gets coarser as the more material you remove from theoutside.This may or may not effect the strength of the cane but the smallestnodeareaand the finest grain I was told by a dealer and a real rodmaker(apprenticed),was the mark of a good rod. This is besides the usual other stuff.I believe that the moisture resistance is greater in the close fibers ontheoutside than those loosly packed deeper in the cane.Look at the jpeg in my web page(I had forgot about that) The crosssectionshowswhat look like plates that that are joined up only at the very outside ofthecane.I think it is important, Terry FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: Terry,If you have dense fibers all the way through the cross section of therodtaking material from the outside should not hurt anything. On occasionifIhave too great a dimension at a given station I'll sand the outside todimension. If anyone brings up "continuity of fibers" as a reason not tosandthe outside remind them that the outside fibers lose continuity as thetaperalmost never follows the culm and if noded you have lost continuityanyway,there are a ton of myths in this game.Regards,Hank W. from caneman@clnk.com Tue Oct 26 18:13:16 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:12:07 -0500 Subject: ferrule adhesive A few minutes ago, I got an email from a maker in California that wanted=to know why he was having trouble with one particular rod. He built it =and has had to reglue the ferrule twice in the past two years. He used =Devcon 2 ton once and Acrylglas once. What does everyone use to adhere their ferrules and WHY? you tell your's then I'll tell mine... LOL Nunley A few minutes ago, I got an email= in California that wanted to know why he was having trouble with one = I guess what I am getting aroundto = What does everyone use to adhere their ferrules and WHY? you tell your's then I'll tell = LOL Nunley from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Tue Oct 26 18:53:19 1999 (5.5.2448.0) "'RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu'" Subject: RE: first considerations Hi Bob,phew, what a relief. I thought I might have started World War IIIwith that post, but I also thought it might get a few of the newbies closerto starting that daunting first rod. Thanks for the moral support. Best regards Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: first considerations Mike,No posse here, bud! All those nice things... the Lie Neilson, theBinder, the lathe, manf'd forms, etc... are nice and NOW necessary to me(arthritis makes hand binding and tedious sanding on ferrule stations a bitannoying) but are they really necessary to make a good quality rod. Nah, Idon't think so. The most important tools you can own reside within you...patience and attention to detail!!! Bob N. (who didn't even saddle his horse or load his gun) -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: first considerations Hi everyone,the poor tormented soul Tony mentioned was yours truly. Youshould have seen the stunned look on his face when I told him how I hadtackled the job. It was a bit like using a tack hammer to drive in a sixinch nail but it did the job. I'll know better next time. I must thankTony for trying to spare me the indignity of public ridicule for myignorance, but it might help a few of the newbies just get on with the joband stop worrying about doing everything the "right" way. Hell, I onlyownone plane (Record 9 1/2), my forms are wood, I set the form depth by eyewith a 60 degree point and calipers, I glue with Resourcinol and I don'towna binder (I do that by hand). I'd love to have a few thousand dollarsworthof steel forms, Lie Nielsen planes, lathe and other tools but I just don'tneed all that stuff to make perfectly good rods. I'll get shot for thisI'msure. Gone to hide under the bed till the posse is gone Mike -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, 26 October 1999 12:59 Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: first considerations Art,Decided it was a good idea to send to the list also. I removed the namestoprotect the innocent. ;-) you're right. I tend to forget I came into this game with a pretty goodknowlage of plane opperation and things from building boats andinstrumentsetc and rod making as far as the plaing goes is easier than some of thethings I've made. Reminds me of when I explained to some-one who shallremain nameless how to make planing forms from wood and use a plane tomakethe taper. I explained how to mark for the taper and how planing it was byfar and away the easiest and most accurate way to get the taper smoothanddip free.After the first attempt he asked me to show him how it's done. So wewentto my bench and I wiped out my 2- 1/2' fore plane with an adjustablethroatI made years back for getting masts into 16 sides from square beforerounding them.Forgot the tourment soul was using a 9- 1/2 . Tony At 07:53 PM 10/25/99 -0400, you wrote:Tony,True enough on the friction test, but a beginner might havehamburger forfingertips before he gets the feel for it. A couple of secretary'sfinger-cots from Staples or Office Depot will let you learn withoutneedingany transfusions!Art At 06:48 AM 10/26/1999 +0800, you wrote:That's right. The bigest problem when begining is keeping the width ofthethoat and depth of cut under control and keeping the ironsharp. I don'tusegloves because once you need excessive force to hold the strip whileplaning it's time to resharpen the iron. Tony At 02:50 PM 10/25/99 -0500, Bob Nunley wrote:Oops... boy from reading the posts on this, I am going to take someflackabout the low angle plane thing... personally, I don't think, if youkeepyour blade as sharp as it should be and don't try to take off too muchmaterial at a time, you will have any problem at all with a low angleplane,but that is just my opinion. Nunley -----Original Message-----From: Bob Nunley Date: Monday, October 25, 1999 2:44 PMSubject: Re: first considerations Keith, 1. Planing Forms: Try Colorado Bootstrap. Frank makes a pretty niceformthat is easy to adjust and is priced very reasonable. Before youinvest inone to build just one rod, I would consider making a set of hardwoodforms.They work great and are MUCH cheaper as you can build them yourself. 2. Planes: I have four 9 1/2's but again, if you are not going tobuildamultitude of rods, you are looking at planing 18 strips. Just get agoodlow angle plane with an adjustment screw and sharpen the stockbladeoften. untilI knew I was going to enjoy this. 3. Rod Length: In my opinion, if I had a way to transport them, Iwouldown nothing but one piece rods, but if you are going to build a 6.5 to7footer, I would go ahead and choose a taper for a two piece rod. Extra advice... Take you time, exercise plenty of patience, and buy thebestset of leather gloves you can find!!!!!!! Bob N.-----Original Message-----From: Keith White Date: Monday, October 25, 1999 12:31 PMSubject: first considerations hi.i am going to build a bamboo rod.i have very few tools.(1) who makes the best(affordable planing forms)?.(2) if i cannot get an old stanley 9 1/2 will a record do the jobor should i get a lie nielson ?.(3) i wanted to build a short 6 1/2 or 7 ' rod so would it be betterto build the rod in one piece ?.--Keith. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Tue Oct 26 19:17:39 1999 (5.5.2448.0) Rod Makers List Serve Subject: RE: ferrule adhesive Bob,I use Selley's Araldite because that's what the guys at the local golfshop use to attach club heads to shafts. I think Jack Howell mentionssomething similar to this in his book. Best regards Mike What does everyone use to adhere their ferrules and WHY? you tell your's then I'll tell mine... LOL Nunley from rmoon@ida.net Tue Oct 26 19:47:49 1999 0000 Subject: Re: ferrule adhesive Bob I still vote for Urethane Bond. I understand that there is nowanother version on the market since Dow Corning stopped making it. Sadto state, however, I just had a failure with it and I know whose faultit was and that employee has been banished from the shop until he cleansit up. He forgot to scrape up the inside of the ferrule. Other thanthat one problem I have used it on dozens of rods with no problemswhatever. I wouldn't toouch epoxy for doing no matter what Mr. Garrisonsays. Ralph from sats@gte.net Tue Oct 26 20:06:15 1999 Subject: Building outside the box A short history Hank,What would be the point of a rodmaker trying to turn an 8ft #5 into a 6.5#3 rodwhen we could produce the real Mcoy quicker.Now an unscrupulous fixer upper sort of guy could benefit from doing thiscuttingdown because of the premium put on shorter rods. Short rods being about 50% more then longer rods but that's not the reasonIstarted this, nor the reason I've posted my 'experiments' (and that's whattheyreally are. I have yet to sell a rod -- though I did have an offer.) I got into this when I BOUGHT my first bamboo rod. Someone had given mea 9ft 6or 7 wt. 3p. Hedon built for another company. ( No $$ value. I Still have itand plan to refinish it as close to original as possible. ) But the first rod Ipaid money for ended up as a 4p thanks to UPS. A few days later I cameacross atwo piece Montigue in a pawn shop. Not a bad rod for $45. It's fairly slowbytoday's standards but it was 7 1/2 ft. -- a lot lighter then the 9ft. It only whetted my desire to have a good bamboo rod. One made to myspecifications. Jon Clarke, our local Bamboo Guru gave a talk at our flyfishing club about the same time. Also Wayne's and Sinclare's books weremakingthe rounds. I couldn't afford the $1000 that it would take for one of Jon'srods, or the $1200 for the one Orvice that I looked longingly at in theircatalog. About that time I found a fairly frequent source of old bamboo. Not goodrods.Not even rods. Mostly parts of rods. And Parts of Parts of rods. Tips for9ft 6wt that were three to five inches short. Rods that had been brokenandrepaired. Stuff that you could restore to the level of "Junk." Theproblemwas, could any of this be brought back to life. A beautiful Headon, missing2inches in it's mid section, no ferrules and most of the snake eyes gone. AShakespear without a tip. Tips without mid sections. All missingguides, tiptops, ferrules and varnish. De laminating. Broken. Abandoned. So I took a handfuls of this stuff and tried to match parts. It worked, butyoucan only take this so far. By this time I was on the list and readingeverything I could on Bamboo. I noted that the power in bamboo doesn'tend afew ths. of an inch below the surface, like graphite does. I figured that ifIcould find a way to remove just enough Bamboo to "even out" cut downparts fromlonger rods, I could come up with something fishable and I have. I nowownabout three bamboo rods that I like to fish. Two of them have beenmodifiedusing the methods I've been describing. The other was repaired andrefinished"as is." I don't like to destroy a good rod. (I own about 11 bamboo rods,three of them " from the factory.") Recently I've been in contact with a man who IS re-building and sellingrodsusing many of these methods. He say's that he can turn out a rod in a veryshort period of time. As for me, it's given me the experience of setting ferrules gluing up stripsandsome of the other parts of rod building unique to bamboo. It's also givenme achance to learn a lot about what's going on in a rod. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from sats@gte.net Tue Oct 26 20:06:15 1999 Subject: Building outside the box part 3 The dirty deed. As I've said several times, I've had some disasters. I've also had somesuccesses. I usually prowl the Flea-Markets looking for old or broken bamboo rods. Iactually have one vendor who keeps an eye out for such things. I now haveasmall selection of butts, mid and tip sections from various rods. I have afewold rods that came complete. I usually try to refinish them, however incasesof the "GI Japanese" rods, I have no problem using them for parts (if theyareusable -- and quite a few of them are.) I select sections that are close to the dimensions of the taper I'm coping. Imeasure all three flats to get an average. Then I use either the average orthesmallest flat measurements as a starting point. I compare this to thetaperI'm trying to copy. I adjust the difference between the size of the actualsection and the taper, keeping in mind that I want to error on the side ofstrength. I can always take off more bamboo if I find the rod is too stiff. I use a sanding block with two outriggers to hold it level on the work. TostartI use very course sandpaper. I measure often. I mark each side that needstobe addressed with a pencil. I work 5 inch stations. I feather the area I'mworking into the adjoining areas. If a flat is close, I won't mark thatflat.I remove material only from the sides that have pencil marks. I count thenumber of strokes. (between 20 and fifty at a time. Smaller diametersectionstake less strokes.) As I get close to the dimensions, I switch to finer sandpaper. I use alongersanding block to take out any ridges I've accidentally put into the work. OnceI have the dimensions close I'll change to a very find sandpaper. A few words about ferrules is in order here. If you look at a lot of tapers,you'll see that the ferrule of most three piece rods have a difference of5/64thbelow 7 1/2 ft. and 6/64th above 7 1/2 ft. If you have any question, go tothenext largest ferrule. In other words, I'd use a difference of 7/64thinsteadof 6/64th without blinking an eye if it looked like a smaller ferrulewouldrequire me to remove too much bamboo. After I complete the sanding, I finish the rest of the rod in the usualmanner. I DO test my guides, before I wrap them. I put them in place with maskingtapethen put a bow in the rod. I look for places where the rod bowsunnaturally.I adjust the locations of the snakes and try again. I've discovered that Iusually move the third snake back about 1/2 to 3/4in. You can get awaywithoutdoing this step, but I feel better knowing that the bow put in the rod by afishisn't flexing one part of the rod two or three times the flex in the otherpartof the rod. One of the last things I have to do is match the bamboo sections in color. I'mdiscovering how much and what kind of stain works best. That's about all there is to it. The biggest problem is coming up with asubstitute taper that I feel is as strong as the original I'm trying tomatch. My early rods were all VERY fast and very stiff. Later rods slowed down abit.My last rod actually surprised me when it broke below a ferrule and Irebuiltit, taking the bamboo down to make a good fit under the ferrule. I wasexpecting it to break again, but after several weeks of fishing it hard, it'sstill in action. The repair only gave it a little "Para' feel. I feel that the experiments I've done with old bamboo rods has not onlyreturnedwhat was "junk" back to the river, but also gave me an insight into how abamboorod really works. I've learned many of the skills needed in bamboo rodbuilding, from gluing strips to setting ferrules. I hope to carry thisknowledge with me into complete bamboo rod building. from jczimny@dol.net Tue Oct 26 20:51:50 1999 Subject: Re: ferrule adhesive --------------BE322651EC9265933B17C0BE I would ask to what type of temperature was he was subjecting the joint.If it were below freezing, I'd find another adhesive. But, if the jointhad not been in and used in freezing environments, then I would suspectfaulty fitting or surface preparation.John Z Bob Nunley wrote: A few minutes ago, I got an email from a maker in California thatwanted to know why he was having trouble with one particular rod. Hebuilt it and has had to reglue the ferrule twice in the past twoyears. He used Devcon 2 ton once and Acrylglas once. I guess what Iam getting around to is What does everyone use toadhere their ferrules and WHY? you tell your's then I'll tell mine...LOL Nunley --------------BE322651EC9265933B17C0BE I would ask to what type of temperature was he was subjecting the joint. joint had not been in and used in freezing environments, then I wouldsuspectfaulty fitting or surface preparation.John ZBob Nunley wrote: minutesago, I got an email from a maker in California that wanted to know why Devcon What does everyone use to adhere their ferrules and --------------BE322651EC9265933B17C0BE-- from thramer@presys.com Tue Oct 26 21:26:41 1999 0000 Subject: Re: ferrule adhesive Bob Nunley wrote: A few minutes ago, I got an email from a maker in California thatwanted to know why he was having trouble with one particular rod. Hebuilt it and has had to reglue the ferrule twice in the past twoyears. He used Devcon 2 ton once and Acrylglas once. I guess what I am getting around to is What does everyone use to adhere their ferrules andWHY? you tell your's then I'll tell mine... LOL Nunley After some of the space age adhesives that have been used , abused anddisCUSSED I have gone back to the tried and true ferrule cement and anickel silver wire (pin). A.J.Thramer from rsgould@cmc.net Tue Oct 26 22:26:33 1999 Subject: Re: ferrule adhesive Hi Bob,I've tested a number of adhesives for gluing ferrules on and have found =one type that is just simply outstanding and far better than all the =rest. It is called U-Bond or Urethane bond. I buy it from Easypoxy =Industrial Adhesives (I have no connection nor do I have a financial =interest) at 2050 Eldorado Drive, Allegany, N.Y. 14706. Their email =address is: easypoxy@compuserve.com and the contact person is Shannon =Hatch. It comes in 30ml tubes. The reason I like this adhesive is that =it has epoxy strength, it is waterproof, there is no mixing, and it has =the unusual property of expanding when it dries which fills any tiny =voids present. I highly recommend it! I have had excellent results using =it.Ray Gould Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 4:11 PMSubject: ferrule adhesive A few minutes ago, I got an email from a maker in California that =wanted to know why he was having trouble with one particular rod. He =built it and has had to reglue the ferrule twice in the past two years. =He used Devcon 2 ton once and Acrylglas once. What does everyone use to adhere their ferrules and =WHY? you tell your's then I'll tell mine... LOL Nunley Hi Bob,I've tested a number of adhesives for = ferrules on and have found one type that is just simply outstanding and = better than all the rest. It is called U-Bond or Urethane bond. I buy it = Easypoxy Industrial Adhesives (I have no connection nor do I have a = interest) at 2050 Eldorado Drive, Allegany, N.Y. 14706. Their email = easypoxy@compuserve.com = contact person is Shannon Hatch. It comes in 30ml tubes. The reason I = adhesive is that it has epoxy strength, it is waterproof, there is no = and it has the unusual property of expanding when it dries which fills = voids present. I highly recommend it! I have had excellent results using = it.Ray Gould ----- Original Message ----- Bob =Nunley Makers List Serve Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999= PMSubject: ferrule adhesive A few minutes ago, I got anemail = in California that wanted to know why he was having trouble with once. I guess what I am getting around= What does everyone use to adhere their ferrules and WHY? you tell your's then I'll tell = LOL Nunley from saweiss@flash.net Wed Oct 27 00:43:20 1999 Subject: Re: ferrule adhesive Ray,Can you non-destructively remove a ferrule after cementing with this =stuff?SteveHi Bob,I've tested a number of adhesives for gluing ferrules on and have =found one type that is just simply outstanding and far better than all =the rest. It is called U-Bond or Urethane bond. I buy it from Easypoxy =Industrial Adhesives (I have no connection nor do I have a financial =interest) at 2050 Eldorado Drive, Allegany, N.Y. 14706. Their email =address is: easypoxy@compuserve.com and the contact person is Shannon =Hatch. It comes in 30ml tubes. The reason I like this adhesive is that =it has epoxy strength, it is waterproof, there is no mixing, and it has =the unusual property of expanding when it dries which fills any tiny =voids present. I highly recommend it! I have had excellent results using =it.Ray Gould Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 4:11 PMSubject: ferrule adhesive A few minutes ago, I got an email from a maker in California that =wanted to know why he was having trouble with one particular rod. He =built it and has had to reglue the ferrule twice in the past two years. =He used Devcon 2 ton once and Acrylglas once. What does everyone use to adhere their ferrules and =WHY? you tell your's then I'll tell mine... LOL Nunley Ray,Can you non-destructively removea = cementing with this stuff?Steve Hi Bob,I've tested a number of adhesives for= ferrules on and have found one type that is just simply outstanding = better than all the rest. It is called U-Bond or Urethane bond. I buy = Easypoxy Industrial Adhesives (I have no connection nor do I have a = interest) at 2050 Eldorado Drive, Allegany, N.Y. 14706. Their email = the contact person is Shannon Hatch. It comes in 30ml tubes. The = this adhesive is that it has epoxy strength, it is waterproof, there = mixing, and it has the unusual property of expanding when it dries = any tiny voids present. I highly recommend it! I have had excellent = using it.Ray Gould ----- Original Message ----- Bob = Sent: Tuesday, October 26, = PMSubject: ferrule =adhesive A few minutes ago, I got an = maker in California that wanted to know why he was having trouble = once. I guess what I am gettingaround = What does everyone use to adhere their ferrules and =WHY? you tell your's then I'll tell = LOL Nunley from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Wed Oct 27 02:22:49 1999 (5.5.2448.0) Subject: Chris Wohlford email Chris,I tried to send you a message off list but it bounced. Could youplease let me know your address and I'll try again. Thanks Mike from noblur@stic.net Wed Oct 27 08:47:24 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-60503U15500L11000S0V35) "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: ferrule adhesive I'll have to get some, and try it. Across the street, from Brownell's, =in Montezuma, Iowa, is a company named Sig Mfg.. They sell a general =purpose clear epoxy, I've used for over 30 years. Pot life is over an =hour, and it's fully set in 24 hours. It's as good or better, than any =I've used. It has all the attributes one looks for in an adhesive. GMA Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 10:26 PMSubject: Re: ferrule adhesive Hi Bob,I've tested a number of adhesives for gluing ferrules on and have =found one type that is just simply outstanding and far better than all =the rest. It is called U-Bond or Urethane bond. I buy it from Easypoxy =Industrial Adhesives (I have no connection nor do I have a financial =interest) at 2050 Eldorado Drive, Allegany, N.Y. 14706. Their email =address is: easypoxy@compuserve.com and the contact person is Shannon =Hatch. It comes in 30ml tubes. The reason I like this adhesive is that =it has epoxy strength, it is waterproof, there is no mixing, and it has =the unusual property of expanding when it dries which fills any tiny =voids present. I highly recommend it! I have had excellent results using =it.Ray Gould Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 4:11 PMSubject: ferrule adhesive A few minutes ago, I got an email from a maker in California that =wanted to know why he was having trouble with one particular rod. He =built it and has had to reglue the ferrule twice in the past two years. =He used Devcon 2 ton once and Acrylglas once. What does everyone use to adhere their ferrules and =WHY? you tell your's then I'll tell mine... LOL Nunley Brownell's, in Montezuma, Iowa, is a company named Sig Mfg.. They sell a = purpose clear epoxy, I've used for over 30 years. Pot life is over an = it's fully set in 24 hours. It's as good or better, than any I've used. = all the attributes one looks for in an adhesive. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Ray =Gould Makers List Serve Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999= PMSubject: Re: ferrule =adhesive Hi Bob,I've tested a number of adhesives for= ferrules on and have found one type that is just simply outstanding = better than all the rest. It is called U-Bond or Urethane bond. I buy = Easypoxy Industrial Adhesives (I have no connection nor do I have a = interest) at 2050 Eldorado Drive, Allegany, N.Y. 14706. Their email = the contact person is Shannon Hatch. It comes in 30ml tubes. The = this adhesive is that it has epoxy strength, it is waterproof, there = mixing, and it has the unusual property of expanding when it dries = any tiny voids present. I highly recommend it! I have had excellent = using it.Ray Gould ----- Original Message ----- Bob = Sent: Tuesday, October 26, = PMSubject: ferrule =adhesive A few minutes ago, I got an = maker in California that wanted to know why he was having trouble = once. I guess what I am gettingaround = What does everyone use to adhere their ferrules and =WHY? you tell your's then I'll tell = LOL Nunley from rmoon@ida.net Wed Oct 27 08:51:08 1999 0000 Subject: Re: ferrule adhesive Steven Yes. Heat will do it with no difficulty.Ralph from rsgould@cmc.net Wed Oct 27 08:52:31 1999 Subject: Re: ferrule adhesive Hi Steve,Good question and I should have answered it before. Yes, a ferrule can =be removed after it has been glued on with urethane bond without ruining =the ferrule. The technique I've used is to heat the ferrule with an =alcohol lamp and pull it off with a ferrule puller as shown in the book.Ray Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 9:15 PMSubject: Re: ferrule adhesive Ray,Can you non-destructively remove a ferrule after cementing with this =stuff?SteveHi Bob,I've tested a number of adhesives for gluing ferrules on and have =found one type that is just simply outstanding and far better than all =the rest. It is called U-Bond or Urethane bond. I buy it from Easypoxy =Industrial Adhesives (I have no connection nor do I have a financial =interest) at 2050 Eldorado Drive, Allegany, N.Y. 14706. Their email =address is: easypoxy@compuserve.com and the contact person is Shannon =Hatch. It comes in 30ml tubes. The reason I like this adhesive is that =it has epoxy strength, it is waterproof, there is no mixing, and it has =the unusual property of expanding when it dries which fills any tiny =voids present. I highly recommend it! I have had excellent results using =it.Ray Gould Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 4:11 PMSubject: ferrule adhesive A few minutes ago, I got an email from a maker in California that =wanted to know why he was having trouble with one particular rod. He =built it and has had to reglue the ferrule twice in the past two years. =He used Devcon 2 ton once and Acrylglas once. What does everyone use to adhere their ferrules =and WHY? you tell your's then I'll tell mine... LOL Nunley Hi Steve,Good question and I should have = Yes, a ferrule can be removed after it has been glued on with urethane = without ruining the ferrule. The technique I've used is to heat the = book.Ray ----- Original Message ----- Steven= Makers List Serve Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999= PMSubject: Re: ferrule =adhesive Ray,Can you non-destructivelyremove a = after cementing with this stuff?Steve Hi Bob,I've tested a number of adhesives = ferrules on and have found one type that is just simply outstanding = better than all the rest. It is called U-Bond or Urethane bond. I = from Easypoxy Industrial Adhesives (I have no connection nor do I = financial interest) at 2050 Eldorado Drive, Allegany, N.Y. 14706. = email address is: easypoxy@compuserve.com = contact person is Shannon Hatch. It comes in 30ml tubes. The reason = this adhesive is that it has epoxy strength, it is waterproof, there = mixing, and it has the unusual property of expanding when it dries = fills any tiny voids present. I highly recommend it! I have had = results using it.Ray Gould ----- Original Message ----- = Bob= Sent: Tuesday, October 26, = PMSubject: ferrule =adhesive A few minutes ago, I got an = maker in California that wanted to know why he was having trouble = once. I guess what I am getting = What does everyone use to adhere their ferrules and =WHY? you tell your's then I'll tell = LOL Nunley from noblur@stic.net Wed Oct 27 09:10:19 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-60503U15500L11000S0V35) "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: ferrule adhesive Where can you get alcohol lamps ? As in what type of firm carries them ? GMA Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 8:51 AMSubject: Re: ferrule adhesive Hi Steve,Good question and I should have answered it before. Yes, a ferrule can =be removed after it has been glued on with urethane bond without ruining =the ferrule. The technique I've used is to heat the ferrule with an =alcohol lamp and pull it off with a ferrule puller as shown in the book.Ray Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 9:15 PMSubject: Re: ferrule adhesive Ray,Can you non-destructively remove a ferrule after cementing with this =stuff?SteveHi Bob,I've tested a number of adhesives for gluing ferrules on and have =found one type that is just simply outstanding and far better than all =the rest. It is called U-Bond or Urethane bond. I buy it from Easypoxy =Industrial Adhesives (I have no connection nor do I have a financial =interest) at 2050 Eldorado Drive, Allegany, N.Y. 14706. Their email =address is: easypoxy@compuserve.com and the contact person is Shannon =Hatch. It comes in 30ml tubes. The reason I like this adhesive is that =it has epoxy strength, it is waterproof, there is no mixing, and it has =the unusual property of expanding when it dries which fills any tiny =voids present. I highly recommend it! I have had excellent results using =it.Ray Gould Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 4:11 PMSubject: ferrule adhesive A few minutes ago, I got an email from a maker in California =that wanted to know why he was having trouble with one particular rod. =He built it and has had to reglue the ferrule twice in the past two =years. He used Devcon 2 ton once and Acrylglas once. What does everyone use to adhere their ferrules =and WHY? you tell your's then I'll tell mine... LOL Nunley Where can you get alcohol lamps ? As in what type of firm= them ? GMA ----- Original Message ----- Ray =Gould Makers List Serve Sent: Wednesday, October 27, = AMSubject: Re: ferrule =adhesive Hi Steve,Good question and I should have = before. Yes, a ferrule can be removed after it has been glued on with = bond without ruining the ferrule. The technique I've used is to heat = ferrule with an alcohol lamp and pull it off with a ferrule puller as = the book.Ray ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, October 26, = PMSubject: Re: ferrule =adhesive Ray,Can you non-destructivelyremove = after cementing with this stuff?Steve Hi Bob,I've tested a number of adhesives = ferrules on and have found one type that is just simply = far better than all the rest. It is called U-Bond or Urethane = it from Easypoxy Industrial Adhesives (I have no connection nor do = a financial interest) at 2050 Eldorado Drive, Allegany, N.Y. = email address is: easypoxy@compuserve.com and = contact person is Shannon Hatch. It comes in 30ml tubes. The = this adhesive is that it has epoxy strength, it is waterproof, = mixing, and it has the unusual property of expanding when it dries = fills any tiny voids present. I highly recommend it! I have had = results using it.Ray Gould ----- Original Message ----- = Bob = Sent: Tuesday, October = 4:11 PMSubject: ferrule =adhesive A few minutes ago, I got an = maker in California that wanted to know why he was having = Acrylglas once. I guess what I am getting = What does everyone use to adhere their ferrules and =WHY? you tell your's then I'll = LOL Nunley from edriddle@mindspring.com Wed Oct 27 09:23:28 1999 Subject: Fw: ferrule adhesive George:I just ordered one from Cabela's. Call 1-800-237-4444. Item # =TZ-31-1417 @ $9.95.Ed----- Original Message----- ; Rod Makers List Serve Subject: Re: ferrule adhesive Where can you get alcohol lamps ? As in what type of firm carries them ? GMA Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 8:51 AMSubject: Re: ferrule adhesive Hi Steve,Good question and I should have answered it before. Yes, a ferrule =can be removed after it has been glued on with urethane bond without =ruining the ferrule. The technique I've used is to heat the ferrule with =an alcohol lamp and pull it off with a ferrule puller as shown in the =book.Ray Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 9:15 PMSubject: Re: ferrule adhesive Ray,Can you non-destructively remove a ferrule after cementing with =this stuff?SteveHi Bob,I've tested a number of adhesives for gluing ferrules on and =have found one type that is just simply outstanding and far better than =all the rest. It is called U-Bond or Urethane bond. I buy it from =Easypoxy Industrial Adhesives (I have no connection nor do I have a =financial interest) at 2050 Eldorado Drive, Allegany, N.Y. 14706. Their =email address is: easypoxy@compuserve.com and the contact person is =Shannon Hatch. It comes in 30ml tubes. The reason I like this adhesive =is that it has epoxy strength, it is waterproof, there is no mixing, and =it has the unusual property of expanding when it dries which fills any =tiny voids present. I highly recommend it! I have had excellent results =using it.Ray Gould Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 4:11 PMSubject: ferrule adhesive A few minutes ago, I got an email from a maker in =California that wanted to know why he was having trouble with one =particular rod. He built it and has had to reglue the ferrule twice in =the past two years. He used Devcon 2 ton once and Acrylglas once. What does everyone use to adhere their =ferrules and WHY? you tell your's then I'll tell mine... LOL Nunley George:I justordered = $9.95.Ed-----Original = Makers = <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Wednesday, October 27, 1999 9:14 AMSubject: Re: adhesiveWhere can you get alcohol lamps ? As in what type of firm= them ? GMA ----- Original Message ----- Ray =Gould Sent: Wednesday, October 27, = AMSubject: Re: ferrule =adhesive Hi Steve,Good question and I should have = before. Yes, a ferrule can be removed after it has been glued on = urethane bond without ruining the ferrule. The technique I've used = heat the ferrule with an alcohol lamp and pull it off with a ferrule = as shown in the book.Ray ----- Original Message ----- = Weiss Sent: Tuesday, October = 9:15 PMSubject: Re: ferrule =adhesive Ray,Can you non-destructively = ferrule after cementing with this stuff?Steve Hi Bob,I've tested a number of = gluing ferrules on and have found one type that is just = outstanding and far better than all the rest. It is called = Urethane bond. I buy it from Easypoxy Industrial Adhesives = no connection nor do I have a financial interest) at 2050 = and the contact person is Shannon Hatch. It comes in 30ml = reason I like this adhesive is that it has epoxy strength, = waterproof, there is no mixing, and it has the unusual = expanding when it dries which fills any tiny voids present. = recommend it! I have had excellent results using =it.Ray Gould ----- Original Message = Nunley Sent: Tuesday, = 1999 4:11 PM adhesive A few minutes ago, I = email from a maker in California that wanted to know why = has had to reglue the ferrule twice in the past two = He used Devcon 2 ton once and Acrylglas =once. I guess what I am = to is WHY? you tell your's then = mine... LOL Nunley from DNHayashida@aol.com Wed Oct 27 09:26:34 1999 Subject: Re: ferrule adhesive Where can you get alcohol lamps ? As in what type of firm carries them? I got mine from a jewelry making supply store. It's used in making waxpatterns in lost wax casting. Be sure to use denatured alcohol in it.Rubbing alcohol contains too much water to burn very well. Laboratorysupply places should have them also. Darryl from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Oct 27 09:28:19 1999 1999 07:33:48 PDT Subject: Re: ferrule adhesive george, heat guns work too and are less prone toburning down your house. i promised my wife thatthere would be know open flames. timothy --- "George M. Aldrich" wrote:Where can you get alcohol lamps ? As in what type offirm carries them ? GMA----- Original Message ----- From: Ray Gould Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 8:51 AMSubject: Re: ferrule adhesive Hi Steve,Good question and I should have answered itbefore. Yes, a ferrule can be removed after it hasbeen glued on with urethane bond without ruining theferrule. The technique I've used is to heat theferrule with an alcohol lamp and pull it off with aferrule puller as shown in the book.Ray----- Original Message ----- From: Steven Weiss Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 9:15 PMSubject: Re: ferrule adhesive Ray,Can you non-destructively remove a ferrule aftercementing with this stuff?SteveHi Bob,I've tested a number of adhesives for gluingferrules on and have found one type that is justsimply outstanding and far better than all the rest.It is called U-Bond or Urethane bond. I buy it fromEasypoxy Industrial Adhesives (I have no connectionnor do I have a financial interest) at 2050 EldoradoDrive, Allegany, N.Y. 14706. Their email address is:easypoxy@compuserve.com and the contact person isShannon Hatch. It comes in 30ml tubes. The reason Ilike this adhesive is that it has epoxy strength, itis waterproof, there is no mixing, and it has theunusual property of expanding when it dries whichfills any tiny voids present. I highly recommend it!I have had excellent results using it.Ray Gould----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Nunley Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 4:11 PMSubject: ferrule adhesive A few minutes ago, I got an email from amaker in California that wanted to know why he washaving trouble with one particular rod. He built itand has had to reglue the ferrule twice in the pasttwo years. He used Devcon 2 ton once and Acrylglasonce. I guess what I am getting around to is What does everyone use toadhere their ferrules and WHY? you tell your's then I'll tell mine... LOL Nunley ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Wed Oct 27 09:54:15 1999 0400 Subject: RE: ferrule adhesive Remember that old fondue set sitting in the back corner of your basement(with the ice cream maker and the jello molds)? I've been using the littlealcohol heater from that. Works great for straightening nodes and twists, Where can you get alcohol lamps ? As in what type of firm carriesthem ? from darrell@rockclimbing.org Wed Oct 27 10:43:18 1999 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8) Subject: Looking for inexpensive chrome plated brass ferrules forrestorations Looking for low cost stepped down type for Montague/H-I type... Jann's Netcraft only has some called center ferrules that are fat in the =middle... Thanks, Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com Looking for low cost stepped= Montague/H-I type... Jann's Netcraft only hassome = center ferrules that are fat in the middle... Thanks, Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Oct 27 11:05:16 1999 1999 09:10:53 PDT Subject: powell tapers greetings! i'm intrested in powell tapers. i've got acouple articles on how tapers are derived but powelltapers have some significant variances. does any onehave some powell tapers either e.c. or walt. timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Oct 27 11:07:55 1999 1999 09:13:25 PDT Subject: powell tapers & kushner tapers greetings! i'm intrested in powell tapers. i've got acouple articles on how tapers are derived but powelltapers have some significant variances. does any onehave some powell tapers either e.c. or walt. timothy i'm also intrested in kushner tapers. specificallythe tapers that have a shorter butt than tip section. tjt ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com from gl@msrr.dmso.mil Wed Oct 27 11:39:56 1999 triton.dmso.mil Wed, 27 Oct 1999 Subject: urac working times would someone share with me what i might do to get a longer workingtimewith urac. i bind by hand, and find that if i'm not quick, the urac hashardened by the time i'm done with the second wrap on a section. i usethe resin to catalyst ratio specified on the can. thanks. -------------------- gary misch cdr, usn (ret.) from edriddle@mindspring.com Wed Oct 27 12:37:10 1999 Subject: Fw: ferrule adhesive My fondue cooker was fired by a can of "sterno". Would that work forferrule removal and set-straightening?Ed-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: ferrule adhesive Remember that old fondue set sitting in the back corner of yourbasement(with the ice cream maker and the jello molds)? I've been using thelittlealcohol heater from that. Works great for straightening nodes andtwists, Where can you get alcohol lamps ? As in what type of firm carriesthem? from darrell@rockclimbing.org Wed Oct 27 13:31:06 1999 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8) Subject: Re: HEAD COUNT - GW Bishop Gathering 10/29-1031 Tenativeparticipantslist David Kashuba ,"Douglas D.Sandberg" ,Ron Huff , Chuck Irvine ,Jeremy Gray , EM11EM22@aol.com,Jerry Foster , Don Burns , Darrell Lee Here's the tenative list so far... Anyone else planning to attend, pleaseemail me OFF LIST... Thanks, Darrell The owner of Brock's Flyfishing will be a guest speaker. Jeremy will bring his binder and beveler for all to view. Darrell will (hopefully... cane has not arrived yet) be bringing some uncut12 foot culms available for purchase and some Demarest info and display.Ifanyone wants to get some of this cane, please contact Darrell off list so Ican determine how much to bring up. I ordered 40 culms. Chuck of course has his workshop there at the meeting location Spouses and guests are welcome... So far, we have a couple of Chili Chefs for Saturday night, BYOB... As far as accomodations, check with Chuck... a couple might be camping athis place and he has room for motor homes too. Chuck Irvine Jim Gentz jimgentz@earthlink.netDavid Kashuba Douglas D.Sandberg Ron Huff George Knight Jeremy Gray Jerry Foster Ed Miller Darrell Lee darrell@rockclimbing.orgDon Burns canerods@aol.com To All Interested, The gathering will start off in my shop. I live at 419 Arboles Drive. We arelocated seven miles north on 395 from the Vons Mall north of town, this isthe last stop light. Proceed north on 395 to Mill Creek Road turn right ifyou are heading north (opposite for south bound) Mill Creek Road runsparallel to 395. Turn right onto Vista View (the only road off of MillCreek). Follow Vista View to the end and turn left onto Arboles, followArboles to 419, shop is behind the house. Phone number (760) 387 0033. Ihaveroom for 4 or 5 motor homes or trailers. lots of room for casting. You arewelcome to show up Fri night but 30 and 31 Oct will be our dates. Plan onaChili cookout, barbecue get together Sat night. The Upper Owens may be agoodbet for all to get together to cast lots of rods and catch a few of the bigspawners heading up the river. I am still looking for builders willing togive a little presentation. Their is no fee for attending but a donationwould be appreciated for the dinner and any Chili Chefs will be welcome. Ihope we can all pitch in and help with dinner. Please let me know if youareinterested and if you have any questions, comments, ideas please steprightin. Tight Lines, Chuck CAIrvinerods@aol.com ========================================= from Jeremy Gray Darrell, I will be attending. I'll get into Bishop Friday night, but will haveto leave Saturday night. I will be bringing a beveller, binder and someother goodies. I could use directions and don't have time to check thewebsite again. Could you e-mail directions and a phone number forChuck's shop. Thanks Jeremy Gray916-797-3312 Jeremy Gray from chris@artistree.com Wed Oct 27 14:58:41 1999 Subject: Re: urac working times Gary,Try keeping the resin in the refrigerator right up to the point ofmixing. You can get a little more working time with it if the mix iskept cool. But I have to honest with you though...I think binding byhand is what is causing your problem. I can't imagine being able to bind the section by hand quick enough when using the URAC. A binderwould help to give you even and tightly spaced wraps that should improvethe overall quality of your rods in regard to glue lines, gaps etc.You're other choice is to switch to a glue (epoxy) that has a longerworking time. Hope this is of help.-- Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com gl@msrr.dmso.mil wrote: would someone share with me what i might do to get a longer workingtime with urac. ibind by hand, and find that if i'm not quick, the urac has hardened by thetime i'm donewith the second wrap on a section. i use the resin to catalyst ratiospecified on thecan. thanks.--------------------gary mischcdr, usn (ret.) from FlyfishT@aol.com Wed Oct 27 15:39:35 1999 Subject: Hexrod for Mac I just downloaded Paul Griffin's Hexrod program converted to Excel,because we have a Mac. We can only go so far with the program and it says, "cannot execute code in break mode." Does anyone know what this means and howto get around it? Or can anyone give me the email for Paul Griffin, who wrote the program? I can ask him directly. Thanks! Tom from tom@cet-inc.com Wed Oct 27 16:31:01 1999 0000 Subject: RE: urac working times Gary,Like many others, I do not use the catalyst powder with URAC, but ratherprefer the use of ammonia chloride to "kick" the glue. You should find a lotof discussion on this in the archives. Here is the mixing method that I use.It is based on volume ratios rather than the traditional weight ratio. Imake an ammonia chloride solution of 10 grams in 100 mls of water (youdoneed a scale for making this solution). This will last a long time. Whenready to glue, I put 35 ml of URAC resin in a mixing cup and add 5 ml oftheammonia chloride solution. This mixture in the "pot" will last at least afew hours at room temp. When only gluing one rod at a time, I would glueandwrap all the sections before beginning to wipe with a wet sponge, andstraighten the sections. More recently, I've been gluing multiple rods, so Iglue, wrap, and straighten each section and hang it up before going to thenext. The left over URAC in the mixing cup doesn't really set up muchbeforethe next morning. While the glued sections appear to set up much faster, Ilet them hang for a few days before taking the string off and sanding. Youcould hang them in a drying cabinet to speed the drying but I sometimesthink my sections tended to be less straight after drying with heat. Hope this helpsTom-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu gl@msrr.dmso.milSent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 12:44 PM Subject: urac working times would someone share with me what i might do to get a longer workingtimewith urac. i bind by hand, and find that if i'm not quick, the urac hashardened by the time i'm done with the second wrap on a section. i use theresin to catalyst ratio specified on the can. thanks.--------------------gary mischcdr, usn (ret.) Gary, many others, I do not use the catalyst powder with URAC, but rather = use of ammonia chloride to "kick" the glue. You should find a lot of = on this in the archives. Here is the mixing method that I use. It is = volume ratios rather than the traditional weight ratio. I make an = chloride solution of 10 grams in 100 mls of water (you do need a scale = making this solution). This will last a long time. When ready to glue, I = ml of URAC resin in a mixing cup and add 5 ml of the ammonia chloride = This mixture in the "pot" will last at least a few hours at room temp. = beginning to wipe with a wet sponge, and straighten the sections. More = I've been gluing multiple rods, so I glue, wrap, and straighten each = hang it up before going to the next. The left over URAC in the mixing = doesn't really set up much before the next morning. While the glued = appear to set up much faster, I let them hang for a few days before = string off and sanding. You could hang them in a drying cabinet to speed = drying but I sometimes think my sections tended to be less straight = with heat. this helpsTom gl@msrr.dmso.milSent: Wednesday, October 27, 199912:44 = = timeswould someone share with me what i mightdo = longer working time with urac. i bind by hand, and find that if i'm = the urac has hardened by the time i'm done with the second wrap on a = from barry@barryblessing.com Wed Oct 27 19:23:41 1999 Subject: Invitation to join FlyFishingBamboo@onelist.com Hello, I would like to invite you to join the FlyFishingBamboo community. The description of this community is: This forum is for those who enjoy, have interest in, or want to sell/tradebamboo flyfishing rods. Please feel free to pass along an invitation to this forum to anyone whoyou think wouldenjoy, benefit from, and/or be able to contribute to this group. You can join this community by going to the following web page: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/FlyFishingBamboo Or you can join by sending email to the following address: If you do not wish to join this community, please ignore this message. Thanks, Barry Blessing from barry@barryblessing.com Wed Oct 27 19:28:48 1999 0700 Subject: Flyfishing Wallpaper and Screensavers These are specifically for Fly Fishing...I think they might have onemore collection as well. Go ahead and visit the site and see what youthink. Some good home computer "wallpapers" and "screensavers" for theoutdoorsman... http://www.webshots.com/photos/fieldstream.html from teekay35@interlynx.net Wed Oct 27 22:03:46 1999 Subject: Re: Looking for inexpensive chrome plated brass ferrules forrestorations Darrell, I've got some old nickle plated brass ferrules in two sizes whichmay be what you are looking for. The female ferrules have a step down insize to match the males. The males also step down so that the internalandengagement dia's are approx. equal. For example, engagement dia. = .186",internal dia for female =.218", internal dia for male = .187". Other sizeis .280", .300", .275". How many dozen do you want?-- -------- Subject: Looking for inexpensive chrome plated brass ferrules forrestorations Looking for low cost stepped down type for Montague/H-I type... Jann's Netcraft only has some called center ferrules that are fat in themiddle... Thanks, Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com from caneman@clnk.com Wed Oct 27 22:54:52 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:53:42 -0500 Subject: SRG starts Tomorrow Well, I have my bag packed, my two canes on the dash of the car, 3 =reels in the floorboard, waders rinsed out, a list of flies made out =(ones I didn't make time to tie, and will have to buy! LOL... bet that =breaks your heart, R.!) and my camera with 4 rolls of film ready to fly! =Anyways, leaving in the morning early and hopefully will be on the =river by 11 or so and ready to meet those of you that will be there, by =4... hopefully with the smell of a big brown on my line! *S*So, to those who will be there...see ya tomorrow... for those who =will not... you are going to miss a great time! Tight lines, Bob my = my two canes on the dash of the car, 3 reels in the floorboard, waders = out, a list of flies made out (ones I didn't make time to tie, and will = will be on the river by 11 or so and ready to meet those of you that = *S* who = there...see ya tomorrow... for those who will not... you are going to = great time! Tight lines, Bob from DNHayashida@aol.com Thu Oct 28 09:06:54 1999 Subject: Re: Invitation to join FlyFishingBamboo@onelist.com This forum is for those who enjoy, have interest in, or want tosell/trade bamboo fly fishing rods. So let me get this straight from the beginning - if I want to sell mybamboorods I can subscribe to your list and advertise them there? Darryl from CAIrvinerods@aol.com Thu Oct 28 10:07:50 1999 Subject: Bishop Gathering To All;Directions correction, I made a goof on the directions, turn on Messa Vista not Vista View. Sorry about that. One can always go to the map section onthe Internet and get a print out of the area. Weather still very nice and the Owens is very fishable. Tight Lines, Chuck from jczimny@dol.net Thu Oct 28 11:00:07 1999 Subject: Re: urac working times Use less hardener.John Z gl@msrr.dmso.mil wrote: would someone share with me what i might do to get a longer workingtime with urac. ibind by hand, and find that if i'm not quick, the urac has hardened by thetime i'm donewith the second wrap on a section. i use the resin to catalyst ratiospecified on thecan. thanks.--------------------gary mischcdr, usn (ret.) from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Oct 28 13:25:24 1999 11:33:19 PDT Subject: Top 25 Tapers Could someone send me a copy of the top 25 taper list discussed earlier this month. Thanks. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Oct 28 13:30:33 1999 11:38:37 PDT Subject: Wet/Dry tip I'm considering altering a 7 1/2' 3 pc. 4 wt. taper in the top 20" of the tip section. This would be to add some to the measurements to arrive at a stronger tip for wet fishing. A two tip wet/dry combo like that suggested with the 7 1/2' 3 pc. configuration? Did you have a certain goal in mind as far as how much you wanted to reduce the stress in the tip to arrive at your wet tip dimensions? Anything to be cautious of when making thistype of alteration to a 3 pc. at 7 1/2'. Thanks. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from cmj@post11.tele.dk Thu Oct 28 14:51:07 1999 +0200 Subject: Sv: Top 25 Tapers Could someone send me a copy of the top 25 taper list discussed earlier this month. Thanks. Chris Chris, here You are: Young Driggs Tony Young Dell CoppockYoung Para 15 Tony Young Tom SmithwickYoung Midge Tony Young Davy RiggsYoung Perfectionist Carsten JorgensenSir D Tony Young Steve TrauthweinGarrison l93 AlexGarrison 212E Tom Smithwick John ZimnyGarrison 221Garrison 201E Rob HoffhinesLeonard 50 Rob HoffhinesLeonard 38H 7' #4 AnonymousLeonard model 50 1/2, 8 1/2ft 3pc 5wghtPayne 98 Rob HoffhinesPayne 200 Rob Hoffhines Max SatohGranger Special Steve ( from Tom Maxwell)Cross Bataviakill Davy RiggsCross Sylph Dell CoppockF. E. Thomas Browntone Light Trout Davy RiggsFE Thomas 71/2 4wt Rob HoffhinesOrvis Flea AnonymousHardy C. C. deFrance or Tarantino Davy RiggsKretchman 6' 6" #3 Reed CurryHeddon 9' 2 * F 3 pc # 7/8 Don BurnsFarlow made Norm Thompson 6' 2 *" 2 pc # 4/5 Don BurnsDawn Holbrook 8.5' tapers for a #7 or #8 lines Rob NielsenThramer 6' 472Dx Chris McDowellA.J. Thamer's 8' Dx John ChannerWinston Little FellerWinston 8' #7 Dell CoppockDickerson 8013 John Channer Bill LambersonHardy Perfection Carsten JorgensenMerritt Hawes 9ft 3pc 6wght Alan GrombacherMike Clark 8ft 2pc 6wght Alan GrombacherJohn Zimny Model 98 7 ft quad Bill Fink Reed CurryP&M Ritz Parabolic PPP Colorado 7'7" #5 Morten LovstadChris Bogart's Shenandoah Supreme #4 Max Satoh regards, Carsten from RBalex@webtv.net Fri Oct 29 06:31:04 1999 234.iap.bryant.webtv.net 234.iap.bryant.webtv.net(8.8.8-wtv-d/mt.gso.26Feb98) id EAA00915; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 04:31:02 - ETAsAhQQDiOnHYGYr/PTfhcgEoIaG+9B5QIUe7Z9qgBSpEpPSuj59V5U1FUdccQ= Subject: unsubscribe unscribe from eestlow@srminc.com Fri Oct 29 09:00:59 1999 Subject: Test 1999) at 10/29/9908:55:07 AM Slow week... from dryfly@erols.com Fri Oct 29 10:26:05 1999 Subject: Policy on Selling What is the policy on listing items for sale? from pdcorlis@nidc.edu Fri Oct 29 10:44:49 1999 with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:47:21 -0700 Subject: Thanks for the tricks! Just a short note to thank all the wonderful folks who responded to my"cheap tricks"e-mail both on list and off. The level of knowledge, skill and honest goodwill of thegroup is both comforting and encouraging. Now lets see, where did I putthose binderplans... Phil from CAIrvinerods@aol.com Fri Oct 29 10:48:50 1999 Subject: Bishop Gathering To All, Don Burns suggested that I send a set of directions (corrected) so theycould be printed out and carried with you to Bishop. We are located 7 miles north of the last stop light in Bishop just off of 395. The last stop light is located next to the Vons Mall. Turn right onto Mill Creek Road, which runs parallel to 395. Proceed to Mesa Vista (theonly road off of Mill Creek Rd) and turn right and follow Mesa Vista to the end and turn left onto Arboles Dr. Follow Arboles to 419 and the gathering, the West side of the house looks a little like a Christmas Tree Farm. Gas in Bishop is running 1.49, bout 34d this morning and the sun is shinning withno wind. I will hang a sign on Mill Creek Rd where you turn on Mesa Vista. Look foreword to meeting you, Chuck from rsgould@cmc.net Fri Oct 29 12:05:31 1999 Subject: Re: Policy on Selling To all,My understanding of the "selling policy" is that commercial activities areto be kept as private as possible and handled through private email orthrough a phone call.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Policy on Selling What is the policy on listing items for sale? from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Oct 29 12:28:02 1999 Sat, 30 Oct 1999 01:27:13 +0800 Subject: Re: Policy on Selling That's about it. It's quite OK however to express opinions of what isaround however. Hopefuly this isn't used as a Dorothy Dix type of thingyou know the "I'm glad you asked me that " type of thing. There is another list that has just started athttp://www.onelist.com/subscribe/FlyFishingBamboo from what I gatherthislist encourages comercial comments, so it'd possibly be a goodcomplimentto Rodmakers.Having adds all the time can be very annoying if all you want is friendlycomments so this list is very useful simply because all the info is freelygiven for the sake of wanting to help so the attitude of the list is good.Still, it'd be nice to see a coment and jump in and state what you do andhow you can help out etc and I think that's what this other site is allabout as well as simply asking and helping as on Rodmakers. Tony At 10:05 AM 10/29/99 -0700, Ray Gould wrote:To all,My understanding of the "selling policy" is that commercial activities areto be kept as private as possible and handled through private email orthrough a phone call.Ray----- Original Message -----From: Robert S Williams Sent: Friday, October 29, 1999 8:26 AMSubject: Policy on Selling What is the policy on listing items for sale? /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Oct 29 13:15:54 1999 Subject: Re: Policy on Selling There is another list that has just started athttp://www.onelist.com/subscribe/FlyFishingBamboo from what Igather thislist encourages comercial comments, so it'd possibly be a goodcomplimentto Rodmakers. I think it would be a perfect compliment to Rodmakers, since it's FlyFishingBamboo, we could take our non-rodmaking comments to that list, andjust have rodMAKING on this list. Like it used to be.Darryl from darrell@rockclimbing.org Fri Oct 29 14:01:32 1999 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8) Subject: Re: Policy on Selling... GW Bishop Gathering... My thoughts were similar and a couple of months ago, I created a group offorums including one for rodmakers and rod restorers. from the feedback Ihad gotten, people said they would rather have forums to visit rather thananother subscribe list such as the Rodmakers List... Seems many areinterested... Anyway, I decided to follow the opinions of the others andcreated forums that people could freely advertise and talk about theirrods http://server2.ezboard.com/banglerscollectibles This board has many features including hot links and people can postpictures in their posts as well. On another topic, see ya all at the Bishop Gathering... leaving shortly forBishop... the 12' culms arrived today... thankfully!!! Gotta pick them upfirst... Chuck, will arrive late this evening... Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Policy on Selling There is another list that has just started athttp://www.onelist.com/subscribe/FlyFishingBamboo from what Igatherthislist encourages comercial comments, so it'd possibly be a goodcomplimentto Rodmakers. I think it would be a perfect compliment to Rodmakers, since it's FlyFishingBamboo, we could take our non-rodmaking comments to that list, andjust have rodMAKING on this list. Like it used to be.Darryl from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Oct 29 15:22:16 1999 Subject: Re: Policy on Selling Yeh, just like it used to be..... The Darryl Show DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: There is another list that has just started athttp://www.onelist.com/subscribe/FlyFishingBamboo from what Igather thislist encourages comercial comments, so it'd possibly be a goodcomplimentto Rodmakers. I think it would be a perfect compliment to Rodmakers, since it's FlyFishingBamboo, we could take our non-rodmaking comments to that list, andjust have rodMAKING on this list. Like it used to be.Darryl from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri Oct 29 15:42:03 1999 NAA19909; (5.5.2448.0) Subject: RE: Policy on Selling this is totally uncalled for!! Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Friday, October 29, 1999 1:26 PM Cc: Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Policy on Selling Yeh, just like it used to be..... The Darryl Show DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: There is another list that has just started athttp://www.onelist.com/subscribe/FlyFishingBamboo from what Igather thislist encourages comercial comments, so it'd possibly be a goodcomplimentto Rodmakers. I think it would be a perfect compliment to Rodmakers, since it's FlyFishingBamboo, we could take our non-rodmaking comments to that list, andjust have rodMAKING on this list. Like it used to be.Darryl from mstevens@ptdprolog.net Fri Oct 29 16:13:06 1999 0000 Subject: re: Policy on Selling If anyone needs a place to offer for sale any old fishing tackle they arewelcome to use the message board at: http://www.OldTackle.com You will be asked to sign up with your email address but everything thereisFree. You can even upload images to use as you like. Mike Michael StevensRR 1 Box 307C Effort PA 18330 610 681 5670 http://www.mikestevens.com http://www.OldTackle.com mstevens@ptdprolog.net Collector of Heddon Bamboo rodsJ.A. Coxe baitcasting reelsHeddon River Runt Spooks Maker of Fine Sights for Antique Single Shot TargetRifles from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Oct 29 18:46:00 1999 Subject: Re: Policy on Selling Thank you for the support, but please let this pass. We don'tneed another flame fest. Please let's keep this list onsubject - Rodmaking.Darryl this is totally uncalled for!! Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Friday, October 29, 1999 1:26 PM Cc: Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Policy on Selling Yeh, just like it used to be..... The Darryl Show DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: There is another list that has just started athttp://www.onelist.com/subscribe/FlyFishingBamboo from what I gather thislist encourages comercial comments, so it'd possibly be a good complimentto Rodmakers. I think it would be a perfect compliment to Rodmakers, since it's Fly FishingBamboo, we could take our non-rodmaking comments to that list, andjust have rodMAKING on this list. Like it used to be.Darryl from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Fri Oct 29 21:04:51 1999 Subject: steel for building planning forms. Hi, Can anyone point me to a source of 3/4" cold rolled key stock for buildingaset of planning forms? I live west of Boston, MA. and a local source wouldbe preferred. Paul from djfinch@sprintmail.com Fri Oct 29 21:22:25 1999 TAA07760; Subject: Re: Policy on Selling You GO Darryl don't listen to them ! DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: Thank you for the support, but please let this pass. We don'tneed another flame fest. Please let's keep this list onsubject - Rodmaking.Darryl this is totally uncalled for!! Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Friday, October 29, 1999 1:26 PM Cc: Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Policy on Selling Yeh, just like it used to be..... The Darryl Show DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: There is another list that has just started athttp://www.onelist.com/subscribe/FlyFishingBamboo from whatIgatherthislist encourages comercial comments, so it'd possibly be a goodcomplimentto Rodmakers. I think it would be a perfect compliment to Rodmakers, since it'sFlyFishingBamboo, we could take our non-rodmaking comments to that list,andjust have rodMAKING on this list. Like it used to be.Darryl from caneman@clnk.com Sat Oct 30 00:15:30 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Sat, 30 Oct 1999 00:14:04 -0500 Subject: Re: urac working times Gary,I just got back from the SRG and some of us talked about that verything. Many are using Aluminum Chloride in a water solution added to theURAC in place of the powdered walnut shells. This apparently extends theworking time a great deal. Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: urac working times Use less hardener.John Z gl@msrr.dmso.mil wrote: would someone share with me what i might do to get a longer workingtimewith urac. i bind by hand, and find that if i'm not quick, the urac hashardened by the time i'm done with the second wrap on a section. i use theresin to catalyst ratio specified on the can. thanks.--------------------gary mischcdr, usn (ret.) from caneman@clnk.com Sat Oct 30 06:17:04 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Sat, 30 Oct 1999 06:15:49 -0500 Subject: SRG 99 Hello, everyone.I just got back late last nite from SRG 99. I had to leave early to =be back here to be with my youngest sons for the weekend, but before the=rest of the crew gets home, I wanted to get on here and let all of you =know what a great time you missed. It was unbelievable some of the = simply amazed at what each of the rodmakers came up with to make our =jobs easier. I was even more impressed at the willingness to share =knowledge and drawings of equipment that we saw there.As far as the rods... well, I gotta tell ya, I was in heaven. I =cast some of the most beautiful, most functional rods I have ever seen =in one collection. I won't name names, because I can't remember them =all, but I bet I cast rods from 15 or 20 different makers and was =astounded at the ability, both as rodmakers and "artisans" of each of =them. If I had to pick any one rod I liked the best... well, I just =wouldn't do it. Every rod I got my hands on had different traits and =each, in it's own way, cast wonderfully.Now for the names... Harry, Mike, Wayne, Ken, and those I am =forgetting (forgive me, long drive last night and I couldn't sleep past =4:30, so have a pretty heavy brain fog this morning), thank you very =much for all the trouble and time you spent on this event. It was one =of the best and most educational gatherings I have ever been to. It was =great to finally put faces to the names that I see on here daily and =great to see those that I knew from earlier times.. especially Wayne C. =(the worried Dad...LOL, Sorry, Wayne, just had to throw that in there). =Oh, and a special thanks to Jerry Ballard who said he expected me to be =MUCH older... that helped my ego a little... went back to the hotel room =that nite and actually thought I saw an extra hair or two coming back = I look forward to the day that I can meet the others on this list. =As many of you know, I am retired and rodmaking is all I do, so I get to =travel quite a lot. As soon as Christmas is over and I get these next 5 =rods delivered, I will be on the road again in late winter and early =spring, fishing places I haven't been before, and hopefully, can use =those oppurtunities to meet more of you.Again, Thanks to everyone that was involved in organizing this =gathering... only one problem... after all that great gumbo, butter =beans, rice, fish, and the biggest damn hamburgers I have ever eaten, =(kinda had to unhinge your jaws like a snake to get your mouth around =them), I am gonna have to get back on the excercise trail for a few =days just to get back under Two hundred and ... hmmmm well, we won't say=how much, but gotta get this belly back down after the feed these guys =put on!!! Hats off to the team that organized this!!! Bob Nunley Hello, everyone. back = youngest sons for the weekend, but before the rest of the crew gets = = at the willingness to share knowledge and drawings of equipment that we= there. = because I can't remember them all, but I bet I cast rods from 15 or 20 = different traits and each, in it's own way, cast =wonderfully. Mike, Wayne, Ken, and those I am forgetting (forgive me, long drive last = and I couldn't sleep past 4:30, so have a pretty heavy brain fog this = thank you very much for all thetrouble = names that I see on here daily and great to see those that I knew from = = to be MUCH older... that helped my ego a little... went back to the = that nite and actually thought I saw an extra hair or two coming back = forward to = as Christmas is over and I get these next 5 rods delivered, I will be on = road again in late winter and early spring, fishing places I haven't = you. to = that was involved in organizing this gathering... only one problem... = that great gumbo, butter beans, rice, fish, and the biggest damn = have ever eaten, (kinda had to unhinge your jaws like a snake to get = days just to get back under Two hundred and ... hmmmm well, we won't say= on!!! Hats off to the team that organized =this!!! Bob Nunley from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Oct 30 20:54:23 1999 Sat, 30 Oct 1999 20:52:26 -0500 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: SRG 99 8468289AF77E12CD9EA2E539" --------------8468289AF77E12CD9EA2E539 Bob,It was good meeting and talking to you.I will admit, that rod of yours did stand out, itis a great caster. It is on my list to make.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com,Jim and Skip are here and said to say Hi. Bob Nunley wrote: Hello, everyone. I just got back late lastnite from SRG 99. I had to leave early to beback here to be with my youngest sons for theweekend, but before the rest of the crew getshome, I wanted to get on here and let all of youknow what a great time you missed. It wasunbelievable some of the ideas, gadgets andcontraptions that were demonstrated there. Iwas simply amazed at what each of the rodmakerscame up with to make our jobs easier. I waseven more impressed at the willingness to shareknowledge and drawings of equipment that we sawthere. As far as the rods... well, I gottatell ya, I was in heaven. I cast some of themost beautiful, most functional rods I have everseen in one collection. I won't name names,because I can't remember them all, but I bet Icast rods from 15 or 20 different makers and wasastounded at the ability, both as rodmakers and"artisans" of each of them. If I had to pickany one rod I liked the best... well, I justwouldn't do it. Every rod I got my hands on haddifferent traits and each, in it's own way, castwonderfully. Now for the names... Harry,Mike, Wayne, Ken, and those I am forgetting(forgive me, long drive last night and Icouldn't sleep past 4:30, so have a pretty heavybrain fog this morning), thank you very much forall the trouble and time you spent on thisevent. It was one of the best and mosteducational gatherings I have ever been to. Itwas great to finally put faces to the names thatI see on here daily and great to see those thatI knew from earlier times.. especially Wayne C.(the worried Dad...LOL, Sorry, Wayne, just hadto throw that in there). Oh, and a specialthanks to Jerry Ballard who said he expected meto be MUCH older... that helped my ego alittle... went back to the hotel room that niteand actually thought I saw an extra hair or twocoming back in! *S* I look forward to theday that I can meet the others on this list.As many of you know, I am retired and rodmakingis all I do, so I get to travel quite a lot. Assoon as Christmas is over and I get these next 5rods delivered, I will be on the road again inlate winter and early spring, fishing places Ihaven't been before, and hopefully, can usethose oppurtunities to meet more of you.Again, Thanks to everyone that was involved inorganizing this gathering... only one problem...after all that great gumbo, butter beans, rice,fish, and the biggest damn hamburgers I haveever eaten, (kinda had to unhinge your jaws likea snake to get your mouth around them), I amgonna have to get back on the excercise trail hundred and ... hmmmm well, we won't say howmuch, but gotta get this belly back down afterthe feed these guys put on!!! Hats off to theteam that organized this!!! Bob Nunley --------------8468289AF77E12CD9EA2E539 Bob,It was good meeting and talking to you.I will admit, that rod of yours did stand out, it is a great caster.It is on my list to make. Jim and Skip are here and said to say Hi. Bob Nunley wrote: to be back here to be with my youngest sons for the weekend, but beforethe rest of the crew gets home, I wanted to get on here and let all ofyou I was simply amazed at what each of the rodmakers came up with to make share knowledge and drawings of equipment that we saw some of the most beautiful, most functional rods I have ever seen in one but I bet I cast rods from 15 or 20 different makers and was astounded If I had to pick any one rod I liked the best... well, I just wouldn't Now for the names... Harry, Mike, Wayne, Ken, and those I am forgetting(forgive me, long drive last night and I couldn't sleep past 4:30, so havea pretty heavy brain fog this morning), thank you very muchfor great to finally put faces to the names that I see on here daily and greatto see those that I knew from earlier times.. especially Wayne C.(the expected me to be MUCH older... that helped my ego a little... went backto the hotel room that nite and actually thought I saw an extra hair or I look forward to the day that I can meet the others on this As many of you know, I am retired and rodmaking is all I do, so I get to next 5 rods delivered, I will be on the road again in late winter and earlyspring, fishing places I haven't been before, and hopefully, can use those Again, Thanks to everyone that was involved in organizing this gathering...only one problem... after all that great gumbo, butter beans, rice, fish,and the biggest damn hamburgers I have ever eaten, (kinda had to unhinge have to get back on the excercise trail for a few days just to get backunder Two hundred and ... hmmmm well, we won't say how much, but gottaget this belly back down after the feed these guys put --------------8468289AF77E12CD9EA2E539-- from caneman@clnk.com Sat Oct 30 22:07:23 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: SRG 99 It was great to meet you too. Tell Jim and Skip I said Howdy and =that we need to all get together again soon, BEFORE the next SRG, for =sure. I am definitely going to take you up on the invitation to come = Thanks for the compliment on the rod. Now I am working on more. =I've been splitting cane today and getting ready to work my butt off! =LOL Anytime they plan to head up that way, have them give me a call at =918- 647-0496. I don't live that far from Ozark and would meet them =there and follow them up... Keep me from getting lost.How did today go at the SRG? Sorry I couldn't stay, I sure did want =to. I was having a blast! cya laterBob -----Original Message-----From: Tony Spezio rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Date: Saturday, October 30, 1999 8:53 PMSubject: Re: SRG 99 I will admit, that rod of yours did stand out, it is a great caster. = Hello, everyone. I just got back late last nite from SRG 99. =I had to leave early to be back here to be with my youngest sons for =the weekend, but before the rest of the crew gets home, I wanted to get =on here and let all of you know what a great time you missed. It was =unbelievable some of the ideas, gadgets and contraptions that were =demonstrated there. I was simply amazed at what each of the rodmakers =came up with to make our jobs easier. I was even more impressed at the =willingness to share knowledge and drawings of equipment that we saw =there. As far as the rods... well, I gotta tell ya, I was in heaven. =I cast some of the most beautiful, most functional rods I have ever seen =in one collection. I won't name names, because I can't remember them =all, but I bet I cast rods from 15 or 20 different makers and was =astounded at the ability, both as rodmakers and "artisans" of each of =them. If I had to pick any one rod I liked the best... well, I just =wouldn't do it. Every rod I got my hands on had different traits and =each, in it's own way, cast wonderfully. Now for the names... Harry, =Mike, Wayne, Ken, and those I am forgetting (forgive me, long drive last =night and I couldn't sleep past 4:30, so have a pretty heavy brain fog =this morning), thank you very much for all the trouble and time you =spent on this event. It was one of the best and most educational =gatherings I have ever been to. It was great to finally put faces to =the names that I see on here daily and great to see those that I knew = from earlier times.. especially Wayne C. (the worried Dad...LOL, Sorry, =Wayne, just had to throw that in there). Oh, and a special thanks to =Jerry Ballard who said he expected me to be MUCH older... that helped my =ego a little... went back to the hotel room that nite and actually =thought I saw an extra hair or two coming back in! *S* I look =forward to the day that I can meet the others on this list. As many of =you know, I am retired and rodmaking is all I do, so I get to travel =quite a lot. As soon as Christmas is over and I get these next 5 rods =delivered, I will be on the road again in late winter and early spring, =fishing places I haven't been before, and hopefully, can use those =oppurtunities to meet more of you. Again, Thanks to everyone that was =involved in organizing this gathering... only one problem... after all =that great gumbo, butter beans, rice, fish, and the biggest damn =hamburgers I have ever eaten, (kinda had to unhinge your jaws like a =snake to get your mouth around them), I am gonna have to get back on =the excercise trail for a few days just to get back under Two hundred =and ... hmmmm well, we won't say how much, but gotta get this belly back=down after the feed these guys put on!!! Hats off to the team that = Tony, to = the = from Ozark and would meet them there and follow them up... Keep me from= lost. at = blast! cya laterBob -----Original = caneman@clnk.com <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= 99Bob, It was good meeting and talking to = I will admit, that rod of yours did stand out, it is a great = sons for the weekend, but before the rest of the crew gets home, = wanted to get on here and let all of you know what a great time = what each of the rodmakers came up with to make our jobs = was even more impressed at the willingness to share knowledge = the = but I bet I cast rods from 15 or 20 different makers and was = at the ability, both as rodmakers and "artisans" of = traits and each, in it's own way, cast = = Harry, Mike, Wayne, Ken, and those I am forgetting (forgive me, = drive last night and I couldn't sleep past 4:30, so have a = brain fog this morning), thank you very much = the best and most educational gatherings I have ever been = was great to finally put faces to the names that I see on here = great to see those that I knew from earlier times.. especially = Ballard who said he expected me to be MUCH older... that helped = little... went back to the hotel room that nite and actually = know, I am retired and rodmaking is all I do, so I get to travel = delivered, I will be on the road again in late winter and early = fishing places I haven't been before, and hopefully, can use = Thanks = that was involved in organizing this gathering... only one = after all that great gumbo, butter beans, rice, fish, and the = damn hamburgers I have ever eaten, (kinda had to unhinge your = back on the excercise trail for a few days just to get back = hundred and ... hmmmm well, we won't say how much, but gotta get = from saweiss@flash.net Sat Oct 30 23:15:21 1999 Subject: The Force I finished my first copy of the"Force". It's experimental in a few =regards, my first rod fumed with ammonium carbonate, my first glued up =with resorcinal, and the first time I've tried a Garrison type grip.I was teaching a beginner's flyfishing course today and at the end of =the day decided to try the rod. I put on a size 6 conehead wooly bugger =and made at least 70' casts with no problem. This rod will hold what =seems like 50' of a WF6F in the air, and easily picked up 50' of line =off the water and shot the rest with no false cast. To cap it off, I =hooked and landed a big rainbow, at least 5 pounds. What a way to =christen the rod.Thanks, Wayne, for your improvement of a taper that already had a =great reputation!Steve I finished my first copy of = experimental in a few regards, my first rod fumed with ammonium = first glued up with resorcinal, and the first time I've tried a Garrison = grip.I was teaching a beginner's = today and at the end of the day decided to try the rod. I put on a size = conehead wooly bugger and made at least 70' casts with no problem. This = hold what seems like 50' of a WF6F in the air, and easily picked up 50' = off the water and shot the rest with no false cast. To cap it off, I = rod. Wayne, = improvement of a taper that already had a great reputation!Steve from frankc@webspan.net Sun Oct 31 07:55:12 1999 Sun, 31 Oct 1999 13:52:21 GMT Subject: Re: The Force Sent: Saturday, October 30, 1999 11:15 PMSubject: The Force I finished my first copy of the"Force". It's experimental in a few =regards, my first rod fumed with ammonium carbonate, my first glued up =with resorcinal, and the first time I've tried a Garrison type grip.I was teaching a beginner's flyfishing course today and at the end of =the day decided to try the rod. I put on a size 6 conehead wooly bugger =and made at least 70' casts with no problem. This rod will hold what =seems like 50' of a WF6F in the air, and easily picked up 50' of line =off the water and shot the rest with no false cast. To cap it off, I =hooked and landed a big rainbow, at least 5 pounds. What a way to =christen the rod.Thanks, Wayne, for your improvement of a taper that already had a =great reputation!Steve Steve Can you explain how you used the ammonium carbonate and what coloryou =achieved.I've tried using it in a heated cast iron pipe I use for tempering but =only changed the color slightly. I was trying to match a Folsum rod =which is a rich medium brown. I have been told that an ammonium =carbonate method was used to get the color. I have tried to match the = Frank ----- Original Message ----- Steven= Sent: Saturday, October 30, = PMSubject: The Force I finished my first copy of = experimental in a few regards, my first rod fumed with ammonium = first glued up with resorcinal, and the first time I've tried a = grip.I was teaching a beginner's = today and at the end of the day decided to try the rod. I put on a = conehead wooly bugger and made at least 70' casts with no problem. = will hold what seems like 50' of a WF6F in the air, and easily picked = of line off the water and shot the rest with no false cast. To cap it = hooked and landed a big rainbow, at least 5 pounds. What a way to = rod. Wayne, = improvement of a taper that already had a great =reputation!Steve Steve Can you explain how you used the ammonium carbonate and what = achieved.I've tried using it in a heated cast iron pipe I use for = carbonate method was used to get the color. I have tried to match the = Frank from frankc@webspan.net Sun Oct 31 08:02:31 1999 Sun, 31 Oct 1999 13:59:40 GMT "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: The Force Sent: Sunday, October 31, 1999 8:51 AMSubject: Re: The Force Sent: Saturday, October 30, 1999 11:15 PMSubject: The Force I finished my first copy of the"Force". It's experimental in a few =regards, my first rod fumed with ammonium carbonate, my first glued up =with resorcinal, and the first time I've tried a Garrison type grip.I was teaching a beginner's flyfishing course today and at the end =of the day decided to try the rod. I put on a size 6 conehead wooly =bugger and made at least 70' casts with no problem. This rod will hold =what seems like 50' of a WF6F in the air, and easily picked up 50' of =line off the water and shot the rest with no false cast. To cap it off, =I hooked and landed a big rainbow, at least 5 pounds. What a way to =christen the rod.Thanks, Wayne, for your improvement of a taper that already had =a great reputation!Steve Steve Can you explain how you used the ammonium carbonate and what color =you achieved.I've tried using it in a heated cast iron pipe I use for tempering =but only changed the color slightly. I was trying to match a Folsum rod =which is a rich medium brown. I have been told that an ammonium =carbonate method was used to get the color. I have tried to match the = Frank ----- Original Message ----- Frank = Sent: Sunday, October 31, 1999 = AMSubject: Re: The Force ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, October 30, = PMSubject: The Force I finished my first copy of = experimental in a few regards, my first rod fumed with ammonium = my first glued up with resorcinal, and the first time I've tried a = type grip.I was teaching a beginner's = course today and at the end of the day decided to try the rod. I put = size 6 conehead wooly bugger and made at least 70' casts with no = This rod will hold what seems like 50' of a WF6F in the air, and = picked up 50' of line off the water and shot the rest with no false = cap it off, I hooked and landed a big rainbow, at least 5 pounds. = to christen the rod. improvement of a taper that already had a great =reputation!Steve Steve Can you explain how you used the ammonium carbonate and what = achieved.I've tried using it in a heated cast iron pipe I use for = carbonate method was used to get the color. I have tried to match = Frank from rsgould@cmc.net Sun Oct 31 11:51:00 1999 Subject: invisible wraps Hi to all,I'd like to see some discussion about repairing splintered rod sections =and just exactly what type and size of thread and finish is most =sucessful in producing an almost "invisible" wrap over a repaired area.It seems I've read that white silk with varnish over it is the standard =but I've also found that tan nylon #290 as shown in the Angler's =Workshop catalogue (no personal connection) turns almost transparent =when coated with varnish. Any suggestions?Ray Hi to all,I'd like to see some discussion about = splintered rod sections and just exactly what type and size of thread = is most sucessful in producing an almost "invisible" wrap over a = area.It seems I've read that white silk with= over it is the standard but I've also found that tan nylon #290 as shown = Angler's Workshop catalogue (no personal connection) turns almost = when coated with varnish. Any suggestions?Ray from anglport@con2.com Sun Oct 31 12:00:34 1999 Subject: Tim Did this get through?Art from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Oct 31 12:20:06 1999 Subject: Bernard Hills 7'6" 2 pc 5 wgt List,This is another rod that Bernard built for me that I promised to the list. Tip Butt0" = .085 0" = .2265" = .111 5" = .25310" = .118 10" = .263 15" = .126 15" = .27120" = .140 20" = .287 25" = .170 25" = .29630" = .180 27" = .299 swell begins35" = .199 28" = .30340" = .213 29" = .34445" = .221 30" = .37850" = .226 35" = .37840" = .37845" = .378 This rod is 7'6" and throws a 5 wght line cigar grip,gold with black trim wraps. Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Oct 31 12:45:45 1999 Subject: Bernard Hills 7'6" 3 pc 4 wght List here is another rod Bernard built for me. Tip Mid Butt 0" = .073 0" = .1675 0" = .2575" = .085 5" = .190 5" = .26910" = .0975 10" = .200 10" = .28115" = .109 15" = .215 13" = .303 swell begins20" = .1225 20" = .225 14" = .34425" = .130 25" = .234 15" = .37830" = .145 30" = .257 20" = .37835" = . 1675 35" = .269 25" = .37830" = .378 This rod is 7'6" /3pc/ 4 wght gold wraps black tipping. I use this a lot on the Dowagiac River and it is a real pleasure to fish with. This is the last of three rods Bernard built for me. Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Oct 31 12:50:40 1999 Subject: Caudle & Rivaz LTD 7'6" 2 pc 6 wght List,Here is a rod I took in trade for a graphite rod. This throws a 6 with authority and it is one of four bamboo rods I have given to my son since he was 13. The kid will not even fish with the graphite rods I have boughthim starting at 5 years old. Tip Butt 0" = .083 0" = .2275" = .100 5" = .24510" = .121 10" = .253515" = .137 15" = .25820" = .154 20" = .26225" = .175 25" = .26530" = .178 30" = .27035" = .180 35" = .28740" = .2125 40" = .28745" - .227 45" = .287 This is the rod my son uses almost exclusively on the Muskegon River. Hecan throw 65' casts with ease even in the wind. Bret from caneman@clnk.com Sun Oct 31 13:59:08 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Sun, 31 Oct 1999 13:57:51 -0600 Subject: RE: invisible wraps I use 00 white silk, and if you pack it tight and varnish it, it will =almost completely disappear. I have thought about using 000 to get it =to lay down tighter, just never got around to it. I have used a light brown 00, and on flamed or browntoned rods it looks =great. Bob -----Original Message-----From: Ray Gould Date: Sunday, October 31, 1999 11:55 AMSubject: invisible wraps Hi to all,I'd like to see some discussion about repairing splintered rod =sections and just exactly what type and size of thread and finish is =most sucessful in producing an almost "invisible" wrap over a repaired =area.It seems I've read that white silk with varnish over it is the =standard but I've also found that tan nylon #290 as shown in the =Angler's Workshop catalogue (no personal connection) turns almost =transparent when coated with varnish. Any suggestions?Ray I use 00 white silk, and if youpack = it. I have used a light brown 00, and on flamed or = it looks great. Bob -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sunday, October 31, 1999 11:55 AMSubject: wrapsHi to all,I'd like to see some discussion = splintered rod sections and just exactly what type and size of = finish is most sucessful in producing an almost = over a repaired area.It seems I've read that white silk = over it is the standard but I've also found that tan nylon #290 as = the Angler's Workshop catalogue (no personal connection) turns = transparent when coated with varnish. Any suggestions?Ray from channer@hubwest.com Sun Oct 31 14:04:46 1999 Subject: Re: Caudle & Rivaz LTD 7'6" 2 pc 6 wght At 01:50 PM 10/31/1999 EST, Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote:List,Here is a rod I took in trade for a graphite rod. This throws a 6 with authority and it is one of four bamboo rods I have given to my son sincehe was 13. The kid will not even fish with the graphite rods I have boughthim starting at 5 years old. Tip Butt 0" = .083 0" = .2275" = .100 5" = .24510" = .121 10" = .253515" = .137 15" = .25820" = .154 20" = .26225" = .175 25" = .26530" = .178 30" = .27035" = .180 35" = .28740" = .2125 40" = .28745" - .227 45" = .287 This is the rod my son uses almost exclusively on the Muskegon River. Hecan throw 65' casts with ease even in the wind. Bret Bret; Thanks for all three tapers, they are going in the file at the top of thelist.Which one would you grab first in a fire?John from dellc@nextdim.com Sun Oct 31 15:15:04 1999 Subject: Re: invisible wraps When I use the Tan thread to wrap with it does become almost transparent=on medium dark rods.DellDell & Marie CoppockThe Flyfisher& the Quilterhttp://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail dellc@nextdim.comflyfisher@nextdim.com Sent: Sunday, October 31, 1999 9:50 AMSubject: invisible wraps Hi to all,I'd like to see some discussion about repairing splintered rod =sections and just exactly what type and size of thread and finish is =most sucessful in producing an almost "invisible" wrap over a repaired =area.It seems I've read that white silk with varnish over it is the =standard but I've also found that tan nylon #290 as shown in the =Angler's Workshop catalogue (no personal connection) turns almost =transparent when coated with varnish. Any suggestions?Ray When I use the Tan thread to wrap with it does = almost transparent on medium dark rods.DellDell & Marie CoppockThe Flyfisher& the flyfisher@nextdim.com ----- Original Message ----- Ray =Gould = Sent: Sunday, October 31, 1999 = AMSubject: invisible wraps Hi to all,I'd like to see some discussion about= splintered rod sections and just exactly what type and size of thread = finish is most sucessful in producing an almost "invisible" wrap over = repaired area.It seems I've read that white silk = over it is the standard but I've also found that tan nylon #290 as = the Angler's Workshop catalogue (no personal connection) turns transparent when coated with varnish. Any suggestions?Ray from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Oct 31 15:17:17 1999 Subject: Silk lines Reed and list,I went antiquing yesterday and found 8 reels with silk lines on them. I bought two of them and cleaned them as well as another one that I already had. Two lines were sound and one was rotten. Now here is my question,how do you tell what weight line you have? Is there a sight that I can look up to find this? HELP!Bret from MasjC1@aol.com Sun Oct 31 15:34:23 1999 Subject: Re: SRG 99 Like Bob I'm just back from the SRG. It was all Bob says and more. I'm overwhelmed with all that I saw and cast. I'm very impressed by the creativity and craftsmanship that I saw. Everyone was willing to share a great deal. What a wonderful group of people. I want to extent a great big thank you to Harry Boyd for "ram-rodding" this effort. I certainly plan on attending next year. It is great being able to put facies to the names on the list. Mark Cole from Canerods@aol.com Sun Oct 31 15:52:51 1999 Subject: RE:Re: Bishop Gathering Chuck, Thanks for hosting the 1st annual Bishop Gathering, you and your wifedeserve a big "at-a-boy"!! Nice shop! Want to reveal where you hide the keys? It was great to be able meet all the attendees and to be able tosee, totouch and to cast one whole lot of very nice rods. Then there was "Bastard" rodon loan to Mark Metcalf - not much to write home about as it was, but if the quality issues are solved. - quite an undertaking. I'll start working on a chili recipe for BG2. Don Burns from rcurry@ttlc.net Sun Oct 31 16:14:47 1999 Subject: Re: Silk lines Bret,Two out of three is pretty good!Line weights are iffy, it depends too much on the tightness of the braidandthe varnish used. And the length of taper and untapered tip varies from onemaker to the next. Further, because the line is thinner, you don't need asheavya line for the same rod, so guessing the line weight is unnecessary.[That said, an "H" level (.025: diameter) is a nice 2wt.]Bret, why don't you refinish the lines and then try them on various rods,until you find a winner?Best regards,Reed Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Reed and list,I went antiquing yesterday and found 8 reels with silk lines on them. Ibought two of them and cleaned them as well as another one that Ialreadyhad. Two lines were sound and one was rotten. Now here is my question,howdo you tell what weight line you have? Is there a sight that I can look upto find this? HELP!Bret from anglport@con2.com Sun Oct 31 16:26:48 1999 Subject: Re: Silk lines Bret,I'm damned if I know how you "mike" something as deformable assilk, buthere's the procession: AA= .065, A= .060, E= .040, H= .025. Mr. Wise saysso in his Encyclopaedia! If you stick all the letters that belong, between,you'll find a .005 differential for each letter.Someone else can try to explain how you avoid turning a .025 into a.020with a twist o' the thumb!Good luck,Art At 04:16 PM 10/31/1999 EST, Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote:Reed and list,I went antiquing yesterday and found 8 reels with silk lines on them. I bought two of them and cleaned them as well as another one that Ialready had. Two lines were sound and one was rotten. Now here is my question,how do you tell what weight line you have? Is there a sight that I can look up to find this? HELP!Bret from brookie@frii.com Sun Oct 31 16:35:49 1999 Subject: Re: Silk lines At 04:16 PM 10/31/99 -0500, you wrote:Reed and list,I went antiquing yesterday and found 8 reels with silk lines on them. I bought two of them and cleaned them as well as another one that Ialready had. Two lines were sound and one was rotten. Now here is my question,how do you tell what weight line you have? Is there a sight that I can look up to find this? HELP!Bret If I may be inquisitive Bret, where do you live that during your antiguing(garage sales or bona fide antique stroes ?) you find 8 reels with silklines ? I happen to live in a town that has alot of antique stores(little else, except it IS the gateway to the mountains *G*) and if I knewwhat to look for, I would. Is all silk line 'braided' ? suecolorado from dmanders@telusplanet.net Sun Oct 31 18:08:21 1999 don") Sun, 31 Oct 1999 17:10:35 -0700 Subject: Re: invisible wraps At 09:50 AM 10/31/99 -0800, Ray Gould wrote: ArialHi to all, I'd like to see some discussion about repairing splintered rod sectionsand just exactly what type and size of thread and finish is mostsucessful in producing an almost "invisible" wrap over a repaired area. It seems I've read that white silk with varnish over it is the standardbut I've also found that tan nylon #290 as shown in the Angler's Workshopcatalogue (no personal connection) turns almost transparent when coatedwith varnish. Any suggestions? Ray from stpete@netten.net Sun Oct 31 20:55:55 1999 Subject: SRG 99 Got back a few hours ago from SRG 99. Just wanted to say what a greattime it was to meet and/or see all you rodmakers and afficianados again.What great rods and good people. Some of you guys are just too creative! Here's looking forward to seeing each of you again! Rick C. from mevans@acxiom.com Sun Oct 31 21:09:07 1999 (router,SLMail V3.2); Sun, 31 Oct 1999 21:12:35 -0600 (router,SLMail V3.2); Sun, 31 Oct 1999 21:10:55 -0600 (204.107.111.23::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V3.2); Sun, 31 Oct1999 21:10:55-0600 popmail.conway.acxiom.com ; Sun Oct31 21:10:54 1999 -0600 (5.5.2650.21) Subject: 9/64 Uniferrule I have an unopened 9/64 REC UniFerrule set (2 male, 1 female) that I picked up in as part of a batch at the SRG. I won't be using this size and would be interested in either swapping for an equivalent 14/64 or will sell Please respond off list if interested. Thank you, from saweiss@flash.net Sun Oct 31 23:11:23 1999 Subject: ammonium carbonate I finished my first copy of the"Force". It's experimental in a few =regards, my first rod fumed with ammonium carbonate, ....Steve Can you explain how you used the ammonium carbonate and what color =you achieved.I've tried using it in a heated cast iron pipe I use for tempering =but only changed the color slightly. I was trying to match a Folsum rod =which is a rich medium brown. I have been told that an ammonium =carbonate method was used to get the color. I have tried to match the = Frank Frank and Ray,The color is a light brown. Since that rod, I have fumed another set =of strips, but haven't final-planed yet. I kept them in the oven longer =and got a darker color. I'm using my heat gun oven and I will have to =experiment more. On this last one, I would turn the heat gun off for a =few minutes and then turn it on to get the temp. back up, repeating the =on-off cycle for the duration of the heating. With the heat gun on, I =think a lot of the fumes get blown out and reduces the browning effect. =I definitely think that the fuming is time and temperature related. =Experimentation is required. This is a quirky process that adds =complexity to heat treating. My crude equipment may not produce =consistent results. I would love to try it in a pizza oven. I finished my first copy of = experimental in a few regards, my first rod fumed with ammonium = ....Steve Can you explain how you used the ammonium carbonate and what = achieved.I've tried using it in a heated cast iron pipe I use for = carbonate method was used to get the color. I have tried to match = Frank Frank and Ray,The color is a light brown. Since that rod, I have fumed = strips, but haven't final-planed yet. I kept them in the oven longer = a darker color. I'm using my heat gun oven and I will have to = more. On this last one, I would turn the heat gun off for a few = then turn it on to get the temp. back up, repeating the on-off cycle = duration of the heating. With the heat gun on, I think a lot of the = get blown out and reduces the browning effect. I definitely think = fuming is time and temperature related. Experimentation is required. = a quirky process that adds complexity to heat treating. My crude = oven.