very close to Manchester. American Angling Supply Salem (exit 2 off 93) 603-893-3333within 1/2 hr of Nashua. A general FF shop, you probably won't find too many rod building components at all, but if you tie flies... The Fly Fishing Museum in Manchester, VT .... I hear this is really incredible! (I think they're closed on weekends!) 1.5 hours, and you get to see a fabled river, too! And also on the same trip, get to visit: (1-802-362-3750)The Orvis Headquarters in the same town - they also have closeout bins and incredible deals. This, too is in Manchester, VT, within a few blocks. I have heard that if you make an appt, you could tour their bamboo area... www.orvis.com I also think there is a bamboo rod maker in Nashua / Hudson - I saw an ad in an early edition of BBFR. Finally, Lon Blauvelt is in Falmouth, ME. Not only a rod builder, he make and sells planing forms, too. LL Bean just over the border into Maine check out their web site -I assume it's www.llbean.com. Also in ME are the outlet stores -discounted shops offering name brand goods - not fishing, per se, but good deals anyway. Good luck, best wishes,and drop me a note if you have any other questions! Regards,JoeJoseph Mulvey Network Engineer Information Technology Department City Of Newton, MA 1000 Commonwealth Avenue Newton Centre, MA 02459 Phone 617-552-7085 Fax 617-552-7036 from BambooRods@aol.com Tue Nov 23 12:44:21 1999 Subject: Re: torch In a message dated 11/15/99 11:28:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, k5vkq@ix.netcom.com writes: Do you have a telephone number for these folks.TIA,Doug Hall from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 23 13:11:20 1999 1999 14:11:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Re: torch Just go to www.harborfreight.com Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com BambooRods@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 11/15/99 11:28:08 PM Eastern Standard Time,k5vkq@ix.netcom.comwrites: Do you have a telephone number for these folks.TIA,Doug Hall from chris@artistree.com Tue Nov 23 14:37:44 1999 Subject: Bamboo Articles Bob & others,If you've had an article(s) you've written or has been written about youI would be happy to post the info on "The Ultimate Bamboo Fly RodLibrary." ( http://www.artistree.com/SplitCaneLibrary/ ) I know many aremodest about theses things but I think it's important that there is arecord of this info. Someday someone might "come into" one of your rodsand be interested in finding out more about the maker. Please forward the following info (or as much as you have) off-list to me:- The Publications Name- The Date Published- The Article's Headline- The Author- A few words describing who or what article is about. Best Regards, Chris Wohlfordemail: chris@artistree.com from flyman35@home.com Tue Nov 23 14:57:19 1999 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP Subject: 60d contact points Does anybody happen to have the MSC part number for the starret 60dpoint? I searched the big book disc and came up with nothing. Thanks, Matt from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Nov 23 16:41:43 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Tue, 23 Nov 1999 16:33:56 -0600 Subject: Re: Final Varnishing boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0084_01BF35D1.9DD0B140" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0084_01BF35D1.9DD0B140 I'm wondering if there isn't a way to control the humidity, without such =an elaborate drying room ? I can understand the need for a drying =cabinet, to prevent all the dust in the air from messing up the wet =surface. In production, when it's rainy, etc., retarders are used, along =with flood lamps to both accelerate the drying, and to remove the =humidity in the first place. I'm aware that retarders slow the drying, =but this can be compensated for with the lamps, to some extent. The ="trick" is to find the temperature, with the lamps, that will not cause =the varnish to bubble, but allow it to dry without the effects of the =humidity ! On a slightly different subject, has anyone ever tried finishing the =cane, BEFORE the guides are wrapped ? You would then go back and wrap =the guides, fill and finish them in the same varnish. This would give =the translucent look to the wraps, yet allow a marvelous finish to the =cane. The obvious point is that this would eliminate having to sand and =polish around the wraps. GMA Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 10:20 AMSubject: Re: Final Varnishing Well, I guess sanding is not necessary everywhere, for everyone. =First you must understand that I live in a VERY humid climate. If the =humidity is under 75%, we consider it a DRY day here in the Arkansas =River Valley. This humidity will almost invariably cause flaws in my =final varnish, no matter how hard I try to prep the previous coat or how =clean and smooth my surface is. It is pretty much necessary for me to =final sand before polishing. All of us know how one little blemish will =show up on cane and, let me tell you, on days like today (just checked =TV10 and our humidity is 98% right now) it is impossible to get the kind =of clean smoothe coat of varnish I like. Wish I didn't have to get out =the 1200 and smoothe it out... and maybe someday I will be able to build =a varnishing room that is sealed and where a good dehumidifier will do =some good, but for now, the elbow grease is my only answer. If someone =else knows a better way, then PLEASE let me know, cause the only thing I=hate worse than brussel sprouts is wet sanding! Bob-----Original Message-----From: Landeens Date: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 9:30 AMSubject: Final Varnishing I was reading the discussion recently on sanding between varnish =coats and I have a question. Bob Nunley indicated that on his final coat =that he sands with 1200 grit and then applies polish. I lot of rodmakers =including myself don't sand the final coat but just apply polish. What =do most people do and is sanding recommended on the final coat? ------=_NextPart_000_0084_01BF35D1.9DD0B140 I'm wondering if there isn't a way to = humidity, without such an elaborate drying room ? I can understand the = a drying cabinet, to prevent all the dust in the air from messing up the = surface. In production, when it's rainy, etc., retarders are used, along = flood lamps to both accelerate the drying, and to remove the humidity in = compensated for with the lamps, to some extent. The "trick" is to find = temperature, with the lamps, that will not cause the varnish to bubble, = allow it to dry without the effects of the humidity =! On a slightly different subject, has anyone ever tried = the cane, BEFORE the guides are wrapped ? You would then go back and = translucent look to the wraps, yet allow a marvelous finish to the cane. = obvious point is that this would eliminate having to sand and polish = wraps. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Bob =Nunley Makers List Serve Sent: Tuesday, November 23, = AMSubject: Re: Final =Varnishing Well, I guess sanding is not = invariably cause flaws in my final varnish, no matter how hard I try = one little blemish will show up on cane and, let me tell you, on days = today (just checked TV10 and our humidity is 98% right now) it is = have to get out the 1200 and smoothe it out... and maybe someday I = able to build a varnishing room that is sealed and where a good = will do some good, but for now, the elbow grease is my only = someone else knows a better way, then PLEASE let me know, cause the = I hate worse than brussel sprouts is wet sanding! Bob -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= VarnishingI was reading the discussion recently on sanding = varnish coats and I have a question. Bob Nunley indicated that on = rodmakers including myself don't sand the final coat but just apply = coat? ------=_NextPart_000_0084_01BF35D1.9DD0B140-- from DNHayashida@aol.com Tue Nov 23 16:59:06 1999 Subject: Re: Final Varnishing Yup, that's how I make 'em.The main reason I do it that way is the whole thing is sealed, even underthe handle if you dip the bare blank.Darryl On a slightly different subject, has anyone ever tried finishing the cane, BEFORE the guides are wrapped ? You would then go back and wrap theguides, fill and finish them in the same varnish. This would give the translucent look to the wraps, yet allow a marvelous finish to the cane. The obvious point is that this would eliminate having to sand and polish around the wraps. from KPres375@aol.com Tue Nov 23 17:07:12 1999 Subject: Re: Exposure... good or not? My best "exposure" has been through the internet and my web site. Thefirst year I decided to get into this seriously I did two shows - one was hugebut generated little business - lots of interest, lots of chat, lots of information sharing but thatdidn't cover the cost of the show. The second show was more to the commercial crowd - that generated lots of buisness -- Ok so I do morethan cane rods. The second year I only did the second show and got lots of takers and lots of orders. -What I learned is have a subscription/sign up list and follow up on it -also it's a really good idea to have a credit card machine (you can rent them from a local tackle shop if you're on good terms). This year I put out a web site - that has kept me busy across the board. Fly rods through bay trolling rods in the 20-30lb class. I had an offer to do a PBS syndicated TV spot but never followed up on it - company doesn't have broadcast in my area ... MISTAKE because I could have referred to my web site. No newspaper articles but I have offered to write a couple of rod building articles for the "FISHERMAN" magazine. They start looking for articles in the fall afterthe fishermen start to develop cabin fever. I'm waiting to hear from them on what they would like... Since I have all the verbage and photos on my web site they can simply download whatever they want or I can repackage forthem as I organized the site and my prose in book format... So = that's my input on "exposure" .... Ken Preston from HALLOWELLMA@atgl.spear.navy.mil Tue Nov 23 17:08:38 1999 (5.5.2232.9) "\"Seth Steinzor\" " Subject: RE: tarpon taper Probably need a 12 or 13 weight, 9ft or better. We are talking a powerhouse fish. Ok, everyone will kill me but I use a graphite over bamboo for these fish. If you are fishing all day the weight savings makes a difference. My $.02. Mark A. Hallowell ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: tarpon taperAuthor: "Seth Steinzor" [SMTP:SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us] at ATGLANT I recently reconnected with an old friend who lives in Florida (a place I have heretofor never had any desire to visit), and he tells me I must come down and fish for tarpon on the fly. I have a feeling that if I do, I'm going to need something mroe substantial than my Sir D or even the Para15 I'm working on. Can anybody steer me to an appropriate taper? from denisd@usa.net Tue Nov 23 17:18:44 1999 0000 mailer(M3.3.1.96) onTue Nov 23 23:19:10 GMT 1999 Subject: Please unplug me Please unplug me for a while. I signed up about a t weeks ago and havereceived over 350 messages in my inbasket. This is great stuff, but isimplycan't keep up with it, Is there a buletin board were i can track the emails without actualmessages ____________________________________________________________________Get free email and a permanent address athttp://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Nov 23 17:25:26 1999 15:34:43 PST Subject: Re: Final Varnishing On a slightly different subject, has anyone ever tried finishing the cane, BEFORE the guides are wrapped ? You would then go back and wrap theguides,fill and finish them in the same varnish. This would give the translucent look >to the wraps, yet allow a marvelous finish to the cane. The obvious point is >that this would eliminate having to sand and polish around the wraps. I think quite a few do it this way. It has the advantage of less varnish bleeds if you are preserving the color, and it would certainly make sanding between coats easier. A couple of things I didn't care for in doing it this way was the lack of continuity at the wrap edges. I know this is purely cosmetic and you can get a clean edge if you paint the wraps with a toothpick, but I like the dipped appearance. Also I find that wrapping with much tension over a varnished blank makes it more difficult to snug up the wraps with a fingernail. The wraps want to bite into the finish some and do not slide together as easy. As far as sealing under the cork, this can be done with a wiped on coat of oil finish over the whole blank prior to installing the cork and turning a grip. If you prefer a thicker coat of finish under the cork, you can dip up to a predetermined point on the blank that is right about where the grip check wrap will go. Then go ahead and wrap the rod and dip to the corknose and you have complete varnish coverage. I've only removed the cork on a few older production rods, but the ones I have done did not have varnish under the grip. There were no signs of rot or moisture damage. One was a very early Divine rod, that had seen a lot of use. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from rcurry@ttlc.net Tue Nov 23 17:40:20 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A6DABF2900C2; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 18:44:26 -0500 Subject: Re: NH boundary="------------1A6D3AD4BD9ACD91351A430E" --------------1A6D3AD4BD9ACD91351A430E Tim,I live in Temple, N.H., 25 miles west of Nashua. Give me a call andI'll try to introduce you to one or two rodmakers and take you up toHunter's, if you wish, or other places of note. Maybe we can get in anhours fishing if the weather permits, or maybe Bob Corsetti will bearound and you could get some parts or rods from him.Best regards,Reed (Curry)(603)878-5007 Watson's wrote: Learned people,I will be in the Nashua/Manchester, NH area next weekand it looks like I might get the best part of Saturday free before myflight back to the UK. Are there any good outlets for rodmakingcomponents in the vicinity?ThanksTim. --------------1A6D3AD4BD9ACD91351A430E Tim, Give me a call and I'll try to introduce you to one or two rodmakers andtake you up to Hunter's, if you wish, or other places of note. Maybe wecan get in an hours fishing if the weather permits, or maybe Bob Corsettiwill be around and you could get some parts or rods from him.Best regards,Reed (Curry)(603)878-5007Watson's wrote: Learned people,Iwill be in the Nashua/Manchester, NH area next week and it looks like Imight get the best part of Saturday free before my flight back to the Are there any good outlets for rodmaking components in thevicinity?ThanksTim. --------------1A6D3AD4BD9ACD91351A430E-- from tragich23@juno.com Tue Nov 23 17:42:57 1999 18:42:34 EST Subject: shorty rod anyone out there have a 5ft 1pc taper for a 2 or 3wt. thanksai from caneman@clnk.com Tue Nov 23 18:22:46 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Tue, 23 Nov 1999 18:21:12 -0600 Subject: Re: Final Varnishing Same here. I always finish under the wraps. i didn't always do it thatway, but I do now for a couple of reasons. First, like Darryl said, thewhole rod is sealed that way...second, because if I ever have to replace aguide for any reason, it is much easier to do a neat and quick repair if youvarnish under your wraps. Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Final Varnishing Yup, that's how I make 'em.The main reason I do it that way is the whole thing is sealed, even underthe handle if you dip the bare blank.Darryl On a slightly different subject, has anyone ever tried finishing thecane,BEFORE the guides are wrapped ? You would then go back and wrap theguides,fill and finish them in the same varnish. This would give thetranslucentlook to the wraps, yet allow a marvelous finish to the cane. The obviouspoint is that this would eliminate having to sand and polish around thewraps. from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Nov 23 18:31:50 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Tue, 23 Nov 1999 18:24:05 -0600 Subject: Re: Final Varnishing boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B9_01BF35E1.013AAEC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B9_01BF35E1.013AAEC0 Thanks for all the responses. I've wondered is this wasn't a "norm" for =sometime, and just never remembered to ask. GMA Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 6:10 PMSubject: Re: Final Varnishing Same here. I always finish under the wraps. i didn't always do it =thatway, but I do now for a couple of reasons. First, like Darryl said, =thewhole rod is sealed that way...second, because if I ever have to =replace aguide for any reason, it is much easier to do a neat and quick repair =if youvarnish under your wraps. Bob-----Original Message-----From: DNHayashida@aol.com Date: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 5:03 PMSubject: Re: Final Varnishing Yup, that's how I make 'em.The main reason I do it that way is the whole thing is sealed, even =underthe handle if you dip the bare blank.Darryl On a slightly different subject, has anyone ever tried finishing =thecane,BEFORE the guides are wrapped ? You would then go back and wrap theguides,fill and finish them in the same varnish. This would give the =translucentlook to the wraps, yet allow a marvelous finish to the cane. The =obviouspoint is that this would eliminate having to sand and polish around =thewraps. ------=_NextPart_000_00B9_01BF35E1.013AAEC0 Thanks for all the responses. I've wondered= ask. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Bob =Nunley Makers List Serve Sent: Tuesday, November 23, = PMSubject: Re: Final =Varnishing = didn't always do it thatway, but I do now for a couple of = First, like Darryl said, thewhole rod is sealed that way...second, = if I ever have to replace aguide for any reason, it is much easier = wraps.Bob-----Original Message-----From: DNHayashida@aol.com rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu=<rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= reason I do it that way is the whole thing is sealed, even = = ------=_NextPart_000_00B9_01BF35E1.013AAEC0-- from teekay35@interlynx.net Tue Nov 23 18:36:12 1999 Subject: Re: Final Varnishing I apply two coats of spar varnish to all of my rods, wet sand with 600 wetpaper, to maintain the "flat" look. The varnish I use tends to draw to thecorners, and the sanding removes the high spots. The guides are wrapped,receive 4 full "wet" coats to insure penetration of the varnish. On thefirst coat, I always pause as I go over the guide foot to insure that theslight gap between foot and shaft is filled with varnish. Most of the timeI use varathane which acts as a color preserver and drys quickly. When I'mhappy with the wraps I clean everything with paint thinner, wipe carefullywith a tack cloth and dip a final time. Use the tack cloth immediatelybefore dipping. If you use it earlier you run the risk of the tackattracting and holding dust, lint, etc.----------From: Bob Nunley Subject: Re: Final VarnishingDate: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 7:10 PM Same here. I always finish under the wraps. i didn't always do it thatway, but I do now for a couple of reasons. First, like Darryl said, thewhole rod is sealed that way...second, because if I ever have to replaceaguide for any reason, it is much easier to do a neat and quick repair ifyouvarnish under your wraps. Bob-----Original Message-----From: DNHayashida@aol.com Date: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 5:03 PMSubject: Re: Final Varnishing Yup, that's how I make 'em.The main reason I do it that way is the whole thing is sealed, evenunderthe handle if you dip the bare blank.Darryl On a slightly different subject, has anyone ever tried finishing thecane,BEFORE the guides are wrapped ? You would then go back and wrap theguides,fill and finish them in the same varnish. This would give thetranslucentlook to the wraps, yet allow a marvelous finish to the cane. Theobviouspoint is that this would eliminate having to sand and polish aroundthewraps. from channer@outerbounds.net Tue Nov 23 18:46:19 1999 taz.outerbounds.net(Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.2) with SMTP idfor;Tue, 23 Nov 1999 17:46:20 -0700 Subject: Re: Final Varnishing At 04:41 PM 11/23/1999 -0600, nobler wrote: On aslightly different subject, has anyone ever tried finishing the cane,BEFORE the guides are wrapped ? You would then go back and wrap the guides, fill and finish them in the same varnish. This would give the translucent look to the wraps, yet allow a marvelous finish to the cane.The obvious point is that this would eliminate having to sand and polisharound the wraps. GMA ----- Nobler;Lots of the guys do it that way, but when I try to wrap over a varnishedsection I have a terrible time snugging up the wraps. I just can't get themto move without screwing up the varnish and it always happens where thewrap won't cover it. So I just dunk the whole shebang and deal with theflaws in the final finish as best I can.John from channer@outerbounds.net Tue Nov 23 18:48:46 1999 taz.outerbounds.net(Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.2) with SMTP idfor;Tue, 23 Nov 1999 17:48:48 -0700 Subject: Re: Exposure... good or not? Ken;So what's your URL, so we can take a peek at your site?John from KPres375@aol.com Tue Nov 23 20:17:36 1999 Subject: Exposure ... good or not... nobler@satx.rr.com Folks -Understand that I did not give my web site because I didn't want anyone to start screaming "SPAM". However, since several of you asked here ismy URL: http://kensfishingrods.com I haven't entered anything in the way of cane rods as yet beyond some good links to other builders. I just don't feel as though I'm far enough along in the craft as yet to expound on methods or techniques of bamboorod building. What I have done though is set up instructional pages in my WORKSHOP area on the basics of rod building with specific sections onguides, wraps, designs, establishing the centerline and other areas that a novice would find helpful. I've also gotten some pretty good reviews on my work from satisfied customers - including those that appreciate the finequality of a cane rod. Everyone is invited! All comments on the site are received openly with the view of sharing information among the novice and experts in thefield.... EnjoyKen Preston from oakmere@carol.net Tue Nov 23 20:31:13 1999 Subject: RE: Poles Hi Bob and Folks: I know it is probably not correct, but I have always called flyrods -sticks. Anyone else use that term? Seems to me it is not the name but thecharacter of the device => rod => stick => or pole, and the respect we have FrankFrank Paul, GreyFox2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 29672fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work)oakmere@carol.net (home) from Nodewrrior@aol.com Tue Nov 23 20:34:37 1999 Subject: Re: Plastic tarpon taper SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us I'm with Mark. I built a plastic (okay, graphite) bonefish rod (9wt) from a Scott heliply blank. They are the only plastic rods I can actually enjoy casting-tho some of the Sage types find 'em a bit slow. But I find them the only plastic rods that talk to you enough to know what's going on with the cast.My $.02. Rob Hoffhines from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Nov 23 20:52:11 1999 [205.167.143.104] (may beforged)) Tue, 23 Nov 1999 20:52:07 -0600 Subject: Re: Final Varnishing This is the same problem I have. That is why I varnish after wraps. I wouldrather varnish before wraps . If there are any hints or why this happened Ihave an open mind and will welcome comments.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com channer wrote: At 04:41 PM 11/23/1999 -0600, nobler wrote: On aslightly different subject, has anyone ever tried finishing the cane,BEFORE the guides are wrapped ? You would then go back and wrap theguides, fill and finish them in the same varnish. This would give thetranslucent look to the wraps, yet allow a marvelous finish to the cane.The obvious point is that this would eliminate having to sand andpolisharound the wraps. GMA -----Nobler;Lots of the guys do it that way, but when I try to wrap over a varnishedsection I have a terrible time snugging up the wraps. I just can't getthemto move without screwing up the varnish and it always happens wherethewrap won't cover it. So I just dunk the whole shebang and deal with theflaws in the final finish as best I can.John from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Nov 23 21:00:02 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Tue, 23 Nov 1999 21:00:07 -0600 Subject: Re: Poles boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01BF35F5.B48D9320" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BF35F5.B48D9320 Many refer to their rods as "sticks", but it's heard more from the =casting rod side, than for fly. Usually a "stick" in fly rod terms, is =also a blank, that is not finished yet. "Pole" would infer that it's like a bamboo "perch jerkin'" pole ! Not =much to do with a fine cane rod ! Again, it's only one opinion, and allot has to do with where you are = from ! GMA Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 8:34 PMSubject: RE: Poles Hi Bob and Folks: I know it is probably not correct, but I have always called flyrods -sticks. Anyone else use that term? Seems to me it is not the name but =thecharacter of the device =3D> rod =3D> stick =3D> or pole, and the =respect we have FrankFrank Paul, GreyFox2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 29672fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work)oakmere@carol.net (home) ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BF35F5.B48D9320 Many refer to their rods as "sticks", but = more from the casting rod side, than for fly. Usually a "stick" in fly = terms, is also a blank, that is not finished yet. "Pole" would infer that it's like a bamboo "perch jerkin'" = Not much to do with a fine cane rod ! Again, it's only one opinion, and allot has to do with = are from ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- Frank= = Sent: Tuesday, November 23, = PMSubject: RE: PolesHi Bob and Folks:I know it is probably not = I have always called flyrods -sticks. Anyone else use that term? = the artifact.FrankFrank Paul, GreyFox2932 North = (home) ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BF35F5.B48D9320-- from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Tue Nov 23 21:15:34 1999 with ESMTP id ;Wed, 24 Nov 1999 03:15:00 +0000 Subject: Re: Poles Frank, John Gierach referrs to a flyrod as a "stick" in the title of his latestbook "Standing in a River Waving a Stick". Dennis Frank W. Paul wrote: Hi Bob and Folks: I know it is probably not correct, but I have always called flyrods -sticks. Anyone else use that term? Seems to me it is not the name butthecharacter of the device => rod => stick => or pole, and the respect wehave FrankFrank Paul, GreyFox2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 29672fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work)oakmere@carol.net (home) from rsgould@cmc.net Tue Nov 23 21:30:15 1999 Subject: Re: shorty rod Hi Andrew,I can offer you a taper for a 5 ft x 4wt if you wish.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: shorty rod anyone out there have a 5ft 1pc taper for a 2 or 3wt. thanksai from rsgould@cmc.net Tue Nov 23 21:39:50 1999 "\"Seth Steinzor\" " Subject: Re: tarpon taper Hi Mark,I think there is a place for graphite fly rods even though I don't have one.The tarpon rod and spey rods come to mind especially for us old guys.ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: tarpon taper Probably need a 12 or 13 weight, 9ft or better. We are talking apowerhouse fish. Ok, everyone will kill me but I use a graphite overbamboo for these fish. If you are fishing all day the weight savingsmakes a difference. My $.02. Mark A. Hallowell ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: tarpon taperAuthor: "Seth Steinzor" [SMTP:SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us] at ATGLANTDate: 11/19/99 1:04 PM I recently reconnected with an old friend who lives in Florida (a place Ihave heretofor never had any desire to visit), and he tells me I mustcomedown and fish for tarpon on the fly. I have a feeling that if I do, I'mgoing to need something mroe substantial than my Sir D or even the Para15I'm working on. Can anybody steer me to an appropriate taper? from caneman@clnk.com Tue Nov 23 22:12:21 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 22:10:47 -0600 Subject: Re: shorty rod Andrew,I have a 5ft 1 pc 2, 3 or 4 taper. Just let me know which one youwant. Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: shorty rod anyone out there have a 5ft 1pc taper for a 2 or 3wt. thanksai from bob@downandacross.com Tue Nov 23 22:27:08 1999 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: shorty rod Bob,Yes please post the 2wt. if you don't mind. I just got a fishable silk H line and wanted to build a 1 pc. nodeless as my second rod. This would kill two birds with one stone.Thanks,Bob M. At 10:09 PM 11/23/99 -0600, you wrote:Andrew,I have a 5ft 1 pc 2, 3 or 4 taper. Just let me know which one youwant. Bob -----Original Message-----From: ANDREW J INGRAM Cc: TragicH23@juno.com Date: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 5:42 PMSubject: shorty rod anyone out there have a 5ft 1pc taper for a 2 or 3wt. thanksai Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Tue Nov 23 22:29:48 1999 with ESMTP id +0000 Subject: Final Varnishing. Observations (?) List, On my first rod I brushed on a polyurethane varnish. I varnished the"blank" then wrapped with Gudebrod silk and then varnished the wraps. On my second rod (still in progress) I varnished first by dipping the"blank" in Man O' War spar varnish. Each rod got three coats. Anobservation was that the Pearsall's Gossamer Silk (used on the secondrod), while much thinner in diameter than the Gudebrod silk, did notburnish very well and left gaps in the wraps. Another was that when Iunwound the Pearsall's silk I found that it left grooves in the finishthat were almost impossible to cover evenly with thread afterward. In these two cases, the combinations of the Gudebrod/poly varnish vs theMan O' War/Pearsall's seem to me to be opposite extremes. In the onecase you have a fat thread going over a faster curing varnish that seemsto work great (until you try to varnish over the thread, thus exposingall of the "fuzzies" that Gudebrod silk is infamous for. But that's asubject for another thread... No pun intended. Really! ). In theother you have a a soft varnish that takes a bit more time to cure and athinner thread going on top of it (probably) too early. Just my $0.02. Any other thoughts? Anyone else want to join the fray (sorry!)? Dennis from caneman@clnk.com Wed Nov 24 03:49:33 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 03:47:59 -0600 Subject: Re: shorty rod Bob, and anyone else interested...Here is the 5' 2wt, 1 pc tapertip .0605" .06410" .08515" .09720" .11325" .12630" .14235" .15140" .16145" .17350" .23155" .23560" .235 Only problem with this taper is fitting a cork grip to it, unless you haveundrilled cork pieces and make your own grips. Later,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: shorty rod Bob,Yes please post the 2wt. if you don't mind. I just got a fishable silk Hline and wanted to build a 1 pc. nodeless as my second rod. This wouldkilltwo birds with one stone.Thanks,Bob M. At 10:09 PM 11/23/99 -0600, you wrote:Andrew,I have a 5ft 1 pc 2, 3 or 4 taper. Just let me know which one youwant. Bob -----Original Message-----From: ANDREW J INGRAM Cc: TragicH23@juno.com Date: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 5:42 PMSubject: shorty rod anyone out there have a 5ft 1pc taper for a 2 or 3wt. thanksai Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com from caneman@clnk.com Wed Nov 24 05:28:33 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Wed, 24 Nov 1999 05:26:59 -0600 Subject: Spinning rod boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01CF_01BF363C.57245600" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01CF_01BF363C.57245600 Well, I did it. Just finished my friends spinning rod (my first) and am =going to go wake him up and make him try it out on the White River in =Arkansas this morning! And NO, no spinning rod for me, I am going to =take my little 6 ft 2 wt and try to put a set in it on one of those =monster Arkansas Browns! He doesn't know the rod is coming. Matter of =fact, he doesn't know that I even built it yet. I think all of our =other friends do, cause I had to bitch to them about building him a =spinner instead of a flyrod. I haven't spin cast in eons, but the =little rod seems to kick a 1/4 oz lure (that and reel borrowed from my = Thanks to all of you who sent me spinning rod tapers. I may never=build another one, but it was a fun and challenging experience. Later,Bob R.L. "Bob" Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Bamboo Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ------=_NextPart_000_01CF_01BF363C.57245600 am going to go wake him up and make him try it out on the White River in = my little 6 ft 2 wt and try to put a set in it on one of those monster = haven't spin cast in eons, but the little rod seems to kick a 1/4 oz = and reel borrowed from my son's closet) pretty nice. experience. Later,Bob Rodsht=tp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ------=_NextPart_000_01CF_01BF363C.57245600-- from lars32@gateway.net Wed Nov 24 06:12:24 1999 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Final Varnishing boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0069_01BF35EF.3AD42220" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0069_01BF35EF.3AD42220 I made the rod finishing tube right out of wayne's book . 12 inch =plastic pipew and all. The Whole works! I withdrw the sections with a 3 =dollar clock motor and I do not have an air purifier otherwise it is the =same. I have a 60 watt bulb in the lower section and I added an indoor =outdoor thermometer so I can monitor the temp top and bottom. If i leave =the flouresant light burn it keeps the humidity at 50% in the humid part =of the summer I can leave sections in the dip station while working on =them to keep them dry. I also have a piece of pvc pipe with silica jell =in it that I use for long term storage to keep cane dry. Wayne is right = charge and I can with a little care produce a dust free finish every =time. The bulb in the bottom keeps the varnish at 100 degrees. I use R10 =Varmor and pratt and lambert tech's its ok. The added heat on the =varnish gives me a .001 layer per coat. Which is I believe pretty thin. =Making Wayne"s dip station is perhaps a little extra work but well worth =the effort.-----Original Message-----From: nobler Date: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 2:47 PMSubject: Re: Final Varnishing I'm wondering if there isn't a way to control the humidity, without =such an elaborate drying room ? I can understand the need for a drying =cabinet, to prevent all the dust in the air from messing up the wet =surface. In production, when it's rainy, etc., retarders are used, along =with flood lamps to both accelerate the drying, and to remove the =humidity in the first place. I'm aware that retarders slow the drying, =but this can be compensated for with the lamps, to some extent. The ="trick" is to find the temperature, with the lamps, that will not cause =the varnish to bubble, but allow it to dry without the effects of the =humidity ! On a slightly different subject, has anyone ever tried finishing the =cane, BEFORE the guides are wrapped ? You would then go back and wrap =the guides, fill and finish them in the same varnish. This would give =the translucent look to the wraps, yet allow a marvelous finish to the =cane. The obvious point is that this would eliminate having to sand and =polish around the wraps. GMA Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 10:20 AMSubject: Re: Final Varnishing Well, I guess sanding is not necessary everywhere, for everyone. =First you must understand that I live in a VERY humid climate. If the =humidity is under 75%, we consider it a DRY day here in the Arkansas =River Valley. This humidity will almost invariably cause flaws in my =final varnish, no matter how hard I try to prep the previous coat or how =clean and smooth my surface is. It is pretty much necessary for me to =final sand before polishing. All of us know how one little blemish will =show up on cane and, let me tell you, on days like today (just checked =TV10 and our humidity is 98% right now) it is impossible to get the kind =of clean smoothe coat of varnish I like. Wish I didn't have to get out =the 1200 and smoothe it out... and maybe someday I will be able to build =a varnishing room that is sealed and where a good dehumidifier will do =some good, but for now, the elbow grease is my only answer. If someone =else knows a better way, then PLEASE let me know, cause the only thing I=hate worse than brussel sprouts is wet sanding! Bob-----Original Message-----From: Landeens Date: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 9:30 AMSubject: Final Varnishing I was reading the discussion recently on sanding between =varnish coats and I have a question. Bob Nunley indicated that on his =final coat that he sands with 1200 grit and then applies polish. I lot =of rodmakers including myself don't sand the final coat but just apply =polish. What do most people do and is sanding recommended on the final =coat? ------=_NextPart_000_0069_01BF35EF.3AD42220 I made the rod finishing tuberight = wayne's book . 12 inch plastic pipew and all. The Whole works! I withdrw = sections with a 3 dollar clock motor and I do not have an air purifier = indoor outdoor thermometer so I can monitor the temp top and bottom. If = the flouresant light burn it keeps the humidity at 50% in the humid part = summer I can leave sections in the dip station while working on them to = them dry. I also have a piece of pvc pipe with silica jell in it that I = long term storage to keep cane dry. Wayne is right about the plastic = static chargeand I = little care produce a dust free finish every time. The bulb in the = = its ok. The added heat on the varnish gives me a .001 layer per coat. = believe pretty thin. Making Wayne"s dip station is perhaps a little = work but well worth the effort. -----Original = = Serve <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Tuesday, November 23, 1999 2:47 PMSubject: Re: VarnishingI'm wondering if there isn't a way to = humidity, without such an elaborate drying room ? I can understand = wet surface. In production, when it's rainy, etc., retarders are = with flood lamps to both accelerate the drying, and to remove the = in the first place. I'm aware that retarders slow the drying, but = be compensated for with the lamps, to some extent. The = to find the temperature, with the lamps, that will not cause the = ! finishing the cane, BEFORE the guides are wrapped ? You would then = and wrap the guides, fill and finish them in the same varnish. This = give the translucent look to the wraps, yet allow a marvelous finish = cane. The obvious point is that this would eliminate having to sand = polish around the wraps. GMA ----- Original Message ----- = Bob = Sent: Tuesday, November = 10:20 AMSubject: Re: Final =Varnishing Well, I guess sanding is not = almost invariably cause flaws in my final varnish, no matter how = try to prep the previous coat or how clean and smooth my surface = cane and, let me tell you, on days like today (just checked TV10 = humidity is 98% right now) it is impossible to get the kind of = 1200 and smoothe it out... and maybe someday I will be able to = varnishing room that is sealed and where a good dehumidifier = some good, but for now, the elbow grease is my only = someone else knows a better way, then PLEASE let me know, cause = thing I hate worse than brussel sprouts is wet =sanding! Bob rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Tuesday, November 23, 1999 9:30 AMSubject: = VarnishingI was reading the discussion recently on = between varnish coats and I have a question. Bob Nunley = that on his final coat that he sands with 1200 grit and then = polish. I lot of rodmakers including myself don't sand the = coat but just apply polish. What do most people do and is = coat? ------=_NextPart_000_0069_01BF35EF.3AD42220-- from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us Wed Nov 24 07:56:43 1999 24 Nov 99 08:56:28 EST EST consult.co.uk Subject: (Fwd) Visit to NH ------- Forwarded Message Follows -------Subject: Visit to NH My suggestion concerning outlets for rodmaking components in the Nashua/Manchester area,if any exist, would be to contact Fred Kretchman at fdkflyrods@aol.com. Fred is a great guy, very knowledgeable and builds really nice rods. Fred lives in Milford, NH and his telephone number is (603) 673-9373. I have contacted him and he would have no problem with your giving him a call. Not to be disparaging, I don't think you will find a lot at Hunters' in New Boston or at American Angling in Salem by way of rod making components - not to say that a trip to either, or both, would not be enjoyable. You may have visited both in the past. If you build rods you are probably aware of REC in Connecticut. I don't build rods but am just trying to be helpful. Tight lines,Les Mason, 9 Milford Street, Brookline, NH 03033 ________________________________________________________ from lars32@gateway.net Wed Nov 24 07:57:58 1999 (may be forged)) "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Final Varnishing boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0057_01BF3651.B5973620" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0057_01BF3651.B5973620 I use a piece of pvc pipe with caps on both ends and some silica jell in = rods (or poles if you prefer) are stored in it during different stages =of work. I also built Wayne's finishing station pretty much right out of =the book. I installed an indoor outdoor thermometer to monitor temps in =the upper chamber and in the lower chamber. When I turn the upper =flouresant light on and leave it on my humidity gauge I can maintain a =50% humidity in the upper part of the tube during the humid part of the =summer. When I dip the sections I keep the lower part of the tube at 100 =degrees F. and the upper part at 80 degrees F. I use pratt and lamberts =Varmor (R10) and the technician at P&L tells me thats OK. The 100 degree=temp in the varnish goes on in a very thin coat as a result of the heat. =averages about .001Wayne's tube is a little spendy to make but it does =everything he says. (I am able to produce dust free coats of varnish =EVERYTIME. I do not have an air cleaner as he does and I"m sure that the =plastic collects the dust by static electricity the way he says it will. =I withdraw the saections with a cheap clock motor I got for $3 at an =electronics junk store and pull it out at 4 inches per minute. I let it =hang in the tube until dust proof which is about 20 minutes. I put the =10 foot pipe in the sump ppump hole in my basement floor. Knowing what I=know now it would have been worth breaking up a hole in the floor for =it.-----Original Message-----From: nobler Date: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 2:47 PMSubject: Re: Final Varnishing I'm wondering if there isn't a way to control the humidity, without =such an elaborate drying room ? I can understand the need for a drying =cabinet, to prevent all the dust in the air from messing up the wet =surface. In production, when it's rainy, etc., retarders are used, along =with flood lamps to both accelerate the drying, and to remove the =humidity in the first place. I'm aware that retarders slow the drying, =but this can be compensated for with the lamps, to some extent. The ="trick" is to find the temperature, with the lamps, that will not cause =the varnish to bubble, but allow it to dry without the effects of the =humidity ! On a slightly different subject, has anyone ever tried finishing the =cane, BEFORE the guides are wrapped ? You would then go back and wrap =the guides, fill and finish them in the same varnish. This would give =the translucent look to the wraps, yet allow a marvelous finish to the =cane. The obvious point is that this would eliminate having to sand and =polish around the wraps. GMA Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 10:20 AMSubject: Re: Final Varnishing Well, I guess sanding is not necessary everywhere, for everyone. =First you must understand that I live in a VERY humid climate. If the =humidity is under 75%, we consider it a DRY day here in the Arkansas =River Valley. This humidity will almost invariably cause flaws in my =final varnish, no matter how hard I try to prep the previous coat or how =clean and smooth my surface is. It is pretty much necessary for me to =final sand before polishing. All of us know how one little blemish will =show up on cane and, let me tell you, on days like today (just checked =TV10 and our humidity is 98% right now) it is impossible to get the kind =of clean smoothe coat of varnish I like. Wish I didn't have to get out =the 1200 and smoothe it out... and maybe someday I will be able to build =a varnishing room that is sealed and where a good dehumidifier will do =some good, but for now, the elbow grease is my only answer. If someone =else knows a better way, then PLEASE let me know, cause the only thing I=hate worse than brussel sprouts is wet sanding! Bob-----Original Message-----From: Landeens Date: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 9:30 AMSubject: Final Varnishing I was reading the discussion recently on sanding between =varnish coats and I have a question. Bob Nunley indicated that on his =final coat that he sands with 1200 grit and then applies polish. I lot =of rodmakers including myself don't sand the final coat but just apply =polish. What do most people do and is sanding recommended on the final =coat? ------=_NextPart_000_0057_01BF3651.B5973620 To control humidity: I use apiece = with caps on both ends and some silica jell in it as a dessicant. = rods (or poles if you prefer) are stored in it = different stages of work. I also built Wayne's finishing station pretty = right out of the book. I installed an indoor outdoor thermometer to = temps in the upper chamber and in the lower chamber. When I turn the = flouresant light on and leave it on my humidity gauge I can maintain a = humidity in the upper part of the tube during the humid part of the = I dip the sections I keep the lower part of the tube at 100 degrees F. = upper part at 80 degrees F. I use pratt and lamberts Varmor (R10) and = technician at P&L tells me thats OK. The 100 degree temp in the = on in a very thin coat as a result of the heat. averages about = is a little spendy to make but it does everything he says. (I am able to = dust free coats of varnish EVERYTIME. I do not have an air cleaner as he = and I"m sure that the plastic collects the dust by static = way he says it will. I withdraw the saections with a cheap clock motor I = $3 at an electronics junk store and pull it out at 4 inches per minute. = hang in the tube until dust proof which is about 20 minutes. I put the = pipe in the sump ppump hole in my basement floor. Knowing what I know = would have been worth breaking up a hole in the floor for =it. -----Original = = Serve <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Tuesday, November 23, 1999 2:47 PMSubject: Re: VarnishingI'm wondering if there isn't a way to = humidity, without such an elaborate drying room ? I can understand = wet surface. In production, when it's rainy, etc., retarders are = with flood lamps to both accelerate the drying, and to remove the = in the first place. I'm aware that retarders slow the drying, but = be compensated for with the lamps, to some extent. The = to find the temperature, with the lamps, that will not cause the = ! finishing the cane, BEFORE the guides are wrapped ? You would then = and wrap the guides, fill and finish them in the same varnish. This = give the translucent look to the wraps, yet allow a marvelous finish = cane. The obvious point is that this would eliminate having to sand = polish around the wraps. GMA ----- Original Message ----- = Bob = Sent: Tuesday, November = 10:20 AMSubject: Re: Final =Varnishing Well, I guess sanding is not = almost invariably cause flaws in my final varnish, no matter how = try to prep the previous coat or how clean and smooth my surface = cane and, let me tell you, on days like today (just checked TV10 = humidity is 98% right now) it is impossible to get the kind of = 1200 and smoothe it out... and maybe someday I will be able to = varnishing room that is sealed and where a good dehumidifier = some good, but for now, the elbow grease is my only = someone else knows a better way, then PLEASE let me know, cause = thing I hate worse than brussel sprouts is wet =sanding! Bob rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Tuesday, November 23, 1999 9:30 AMSubject: = VarnishingI was reading the discussion recently on = between varnish coats and I have a question. Bob Nunley = that on his final coat that he sands with 1200 grit and then = polish. I lot of rodmakers including myself don't sand the = coat but just apply polish. What do most people do and is = coat? ------=_NextPart_000_0057_01BF3651.B5973620-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Nov 24 08:19:25 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Wed, 24 Nov 1999 08:19:22 -0600 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Final Varnishing boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0035_01BF3654.98964180" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01BF3654.98964180 This wrapping over varnish, and getting grooves under the wraps, sounds =like a function of drying time/coat thickness. My u\se of the various =poly urethanes, says they get dry, and much more brittle, faster. Such a =finish on metal, with chip easier, than a regular enamel, or varnish. =There are some clear epoxy enamels that are both tough, and flexible. When wrapping, guides, I've always used my thumb nail to push the =windings tight, every few turns. The fuzzies are singed, and smoothed =with a non- smoking flame, wet, and re-singed again, before anything is =applied. Now, the drying time vs. being able to push the wraps tighter, is =totally dependent on how hard the surface under the wraps is. With the =preferred finer threads, this becomes a much more difficult problem. =Perhaps "A", is about as small as it's possible to use ??? I recall Bob =N. saying he used an extended drying time, of 30 days or so it seems. =Bob, do you have problems with wrapping after this much time ? BTW, our tests with Varathane, indicate it is not nearly as resistant to =other solvents, etc., as urethanes like Glidden, or Min-Wax. Varathane =lifts, and comes off from contact with methane's. GMA Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 9:58 AMSubject: Re: Final Varnishing I use a piece of pvc pipe with caps on both ends and some silica jell = rods (or poles if you prefer) are stored in it during different stages =of work. I also built Wayne's finishing station pretty much right out of =the book. I installed an indoor outdoor thermometer to monitor temps in =the upper chamber and in the lower chamber. When I turn the upper =flouresant light on and leave it on my humidity gauge I can maintain a =50% humidity in the upper part of the tube during the humid part of the =summer. When I dip the sections I keep the lower part of the tube at 100 =degrees F. and the upper part at 80 degrees F. I use pratt and lamberts =Varmor (R10) and the technician at P&L tells me thats OK. The 100 degree=temp in the varnish goes on in a very thin coat as a result of the heat. =averages about .001Wayne's tube is a little spendy to make but it does =everything he says. (I am able to produce dust free coats of varnish =EVERYTIME. I do not have an air cleaner as he does and I"m sure that the =plastic collects the dust by static electricity the way he says it will. =I withdraw the saections with a cheap clock motor I got for $3 at an =electronics junk store and pull it out at 4 inches per minute. I let it =hang in the tube until dust proof which is about 20 minutes. I put the =10 foot pipe in the sump ppump hole in my basement floor. Knowing what I=know now it would have been worth breaking up a hole in the floor for =it.-----Original Message-----From: nobler Date: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 2:47 PMSubject: Re: Final Varnishing I'm wondering if there isn't a way to control the humidity, without =such an elaborate drying room ? I can understand the need for a drying =cabinet, to prevent all the dust in the air from messing up the wet =surface. In production, when it's rainy, etc., retarders are used, along =with flood lamps to both accelerate the drying, and to remove the =humidity in the first place. I'm aware that retarders slow the drying, =but this can be compensated for with the lamps, to some extent. The ="trick" is to find the temperature, with the lamps, that will not cause =the varnish to bubble, but allow it to dry without the effects of the =humidity ! On a slightly different subject, has anyone ever tried finishing the =cane, BEFORE the guides are wrapped ? You would then go back and wrap =the guides, fill and finish them in the same varnish. This would give =the translucent look to the wraps, yet allow a marvelous finish to the =cane. The obvious point is that this would eliminate having to sand and =polish around the wraps. GMA Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 10:20 AMSubject: Re: Final Varnishing Well, I guess sanding is not necessary everywhere, for everyone. =First you must understand that I live in a VERY humid climate. If the =humidity is under 75%, we consider it a DRY day here in the Arkansas =River Valley. This humidity will almost invariably cause flaws in my =final varnish, no matter how hard I try to prep the previous coat or how =clean and smooth my surface is. It is pretty much necessary for me to =final sand before polishing. All of us know how one little blemish will =show up on cane and, let me tell you, on days like today (just checked =TV10 and our humidity is 98% right now) it is impossible to get the kind =of clean smoothe coat of varnish I like. Wish I didn't have to get out =the 1200 and smoothe it out... and maybe someday I will be able to build =a varnishing room that is sealed and where a good dehumidifier will do =some good, but for now, the elbow grease is my only answer. If someone =else knows a better way, then PLEASE let me know, cause the only thing I=hate worse than brussel sprouts is wet sanding! Bob-----Original Message-----From: Landeens Date: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 9:30 AMSubject: Final Varnishing I was reading the discussion recently on sanding between varnish =coats and I have a question. Bob Nunley indicated that on his final coat =that he sands with 1200 grit and then applies polish. I lot of rodmakers =including myself don't sand the final coat but just apply polish. What =do most people do and is sanding recommended on the final coat? ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01BF3654.98964180 This wrapping over varnish, and getting = the wraps, sounds like a function of drying time/coat thickness. My u\se = various poly urethanes, says they get dry, and much more brittle, = finish on metal, with chip easier, than a regular enamel, or varnish. = flexible. When wrapping, guides, I've always used my thumb nail to = windings tight, every few turns. The fuzzies are singed, and smoothed = applied. Now, the drying time vs. being able to push the wraps = totally dependent on how hard the surface under the wraps is. With the = finer threads, this becomes a much more difficult problem. Perhaps "A", = as small as it's possible to use ??? I recall Bob N. saying he used an = drying time, of 30 days or so it seems. Bob, do you have problems with = after this much time ? BTW, our tests with Varathane, indicate it is not nearly as= resistant to other solvents, etc., as urethanes like Glidden, or = Varathane lifts, and comes off from contact with =methane's. GMA ----- Original Message ----- lars32 Rod Makers List Serve Sent: Wednesday, November 24, = AMSubject: Re: Final =Varnishing To control humidity: I use a = rods (or poles if you prefer) are stored in it = different stages of work. I also built Wayne's finishing station = right out of the book. I installed an indoor outdoor thermometer to = temps in the upper chamber and in the lower chamber. When I turn the = flouresant light on and leave it on my humidity gauge I can maintain a = humidity in the upper part of the tube during the humid part of the = When I dip the sections I keep the lower part of the tube at 100 = and the upper part at 80 degrees F. I use pratt and lamberts Varmor = the technician at P&L tells me thats OK. The 100 degree temp in = varnish goes on in a very thin coat as a result of the heat. averages = .001Wayne's tube is a little spendy to make but it does everything he = am able to produce dust free coats of varnish EVERYTIME. I do not have = cleaner as he does and I"m sure that the plastic collects the dust by = electricity the way he says it will. I withdraw the saections with a = clock motor I got for $3 at an electronics junk store and pull it out = inches per minute. I let it hang in the tube until dust proof which is = 20 minutes. I put the 10 foot pipe in the sump ppump hole in my = floor. Knowing what I know now it would have been worth breaking up a = the floor for it. -----Original = = Serve <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Tuesday, November 23, 1999 2:47 PMSubject: Re: VarnishingI'm wondering if there isn't a way to = humidity, without such an elaborate drying room ? I can understand = wet surface. In production, when it's rainy, etc., retarders are = with flood lamps to both accelerate the drying, and to remove the = in the first place. I'm aware that retarders slow the drying, but = be compensated for with the lamps, to some extent. The "trick" is to = the temperature, with the lamps, that will not cause the varnish to = ! finishing the cane, BEFORE the guides are wrapped ? You would then = and wrap the guides, fill and finish them in the same varnish. This = give the translucent look to the wraps, yet allow a marvelous finish = cane. The obvious point is that this would eliminate having to sand = polish around the wraps. GMA ----- Original Message ----- = Bob= Sent: Tuesday, November 23, = 10:20 AMSubject: Re: Final =Varnishing Well, I guess sanding is not = invariably cause flaws in my final varnish, no matter how hard I = prep the previous coat or how clean and smooth my surface = us know how one little blemish will show up on cane and, let me = on days like today (just checked TV10 and our humidity is 98% = it is impossible to get the kind of clean smoothe coat of varnish = and maybe someday I will be able to build a varnishing room that = and where a good dehumidifier will do some good, but for now, the = PLEASE let me know, cause the only thing I hate worse than brussel = is wet sanding! Bob rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Tuesday, November 23, 1999 9:30 AMSubject: VarnishingI was reading the discussion recently on = between varnish coats and I have a question. Bob Nunley = on his final coat that he sands with 1200 grit and then applies = I lot of rodmakers including myself don't sand the final coat = apply polish. What do most people do and is sanding recommended = coat? ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01BF3654.98964180-- from darrell@rockclimbing.org Wed Nov 24 08:43:37 1999 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Final Varnishing. Observations (?) Fuzzies are also caused by the tension device you use... I've found thattype that the thread goes between two disks causes a lot more fuzziesthanthe type of tension device that puts tension on the spool not the threadsuch as the old Thompson/Herters devices or the type with thespring/washersand wing nuts to put tension on the spool. Haven't tried the Pearsall's thread yet, I have several... waiting for anice Payne to come my way... Most of the thread I use is the old Rice'ssilk, B-C and old vintage stock although I have lots of the new Gudebrodstock, seems the colors don't quite match the old rods on restorations. I just found some old Antique Gold and Orange Black Jasper silk, now I canwork on a few rods that have been sitting in the closet for over a year...There are fly tying exchange groups... we need a vintage silk threadexchange group... Darrell Leewww.bamboorods.homepage.com -----Original Message----- Subject: Final Varnishing. Observations (?) List, On my first rod I brushed on a polyurethane varnish. I varnished the"blank" then wrapped with Gudebrod silk and then varnished the wraps.On my second rod (still in progress) I varnished first by dipping the"blank" in Man O' War spar varnish. Each rod got three coats. Anobservation was that the Pearsall's Gossamer Silk (used on the secondrod), while much thinner in diameter than the Gudebrod silk, did notburnish very well and left gaps in the wraps. Another was that when Iunwound the Pearsall's silk I found that it left grooves in the finishthat were almost impossible to cover evenly with thread afterward. In these two cases, the combinations of the Gudebrod/poly varnish vs theMan O' War/Pearsall's seem to me to be opposite extremes. In the onecase you have a fat thread going over a faster curing varnish that seemsto work great (until you try to varnish over the thread, thus exposingall of the "fuzzies" that Gudebrod silk is infamous for. But that's asubject for another thread... No pun intended. Really! ). In theother you have a a soft varnish that takes a bit more time to cure and athinner thread going on top of it (probably) too early. Just my $0.02. Any other thoughts? Anyone else want to join the fray (sorry!)? Dennis from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Wed Nov 24 09:02:21 1999 0500 Subject: RE: Final Varnishing Doing it this way, do you dip the whole rod with the guides to get thewraps orjust brush the wraps themselves. If you just brush the wraps, how to youavoidrunning over onto the blank from the wraps? Just by being very careful? -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Final Varnishing Yup, that's how I make 'em.The main reason I do it that way is the whole thing is sealed, even underthe handle if you dip the bare blank.Darryl On a slightly different subject, has anyone ever tried finishing the cane, BEFORE the guides are wrapped ? You would then go back and wrap theguides, fill and finish them in the same varnish. This would give the translucent look to the wraps, yet allow a marvelous finish to the cane. The obvious point is that this would eliminate having to sand and polish around the wraps. from DNHayashida@aol.com Wed Nov 24 09:17:08 1999 Subject: Re: Final Varnishing Doing it this way, do you dip the whole rod with the guides to get the wraps or just brush the wraps themselves. If you just brush the wraps, how toyou avoid running over onto the blank from the wraps? Just by being very careful? I've never had that problem. I guess I must be careful just as a matter of course.Darryl from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Nov 24 09:21:21 1999 1999 07:21:01 PST Subject: silk who sells pearsall's on-line? ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Nov 24 10:39:26 1999 Wed, 24 Nov 1999 08:39:06 -0800 Subject: Re: silk Try Russ Gooding at Goldenwitch, -- http://www.goldenwitch.com/ Harry timothy troester wrote: who sells pearsall's on-line? ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com from DNHayashida@aol.com Wed Nov 24 11:30:16 1999 Subject: Alternate Bamboo? Has anyone heard of or actually made a rod out ofanything other than Tonkin? I know rods used to bemade out of Calcutta cane before Tonkin was discovered,but I'm talking about modern day makers using some ofthe other types of bamboo available now. For instance,while surfing the internet I came across Moso, Guadua,and Black bamboo, all available in unfinished culms,all 10 to 18 ft. long, and in the case of the Moso andGuadua, up to 6 inches in diameter! Now it seems to meany bamboo 6 inches in diameter has to have some kindof power fiber. Has anybody tried these alternate bamboo species? Darryl Hayashida from DNHayashida@aol.com Wed Nov 24 12:27:38 1999 Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo? In my searches on the internet I find that there are over 150 differentspecies of bamboo worldwide. It would seem very curious to me thatthere is only one species of bamboo that is suitable to rodmaking.I saw a reference to a type of bamboo that had nodes 3 to 4 feet apart! Who was it that said Tonkin was the only kind we should use? Darryl from BAMBOOIRL@aol.com Wed Nov 24 12:46:12 1999 Subject: Fwd: Alternate Bamboo? boundary="part1_0.bd2e173b.256d8c4b_boundary" --part1_0.bd2e173b.256d8c4b_boundary In a message dated 11/24/99 10:43:42 AM Pacific Standard Time,BAMBOOIRL writes: --part1_0.bd2e173b.256d8c4b_boundary Full-name: BAMBOOIRL Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo? I agree with you that there are might be some other Bamboo specie, good makingfly-rods & maybe even better.But, who can organize to harvest and process those , maybe superior than Arudin.Amabilis (Lovely bamboo), alternate bambu.Also to control the quality and present to the Fly-rod market.Tea-Stick Bamboo are well established in harvesting, processing &exporting, now the prices are reasonable & with plentiful of supplies, especially, in the Fly-rodmakers' world, at least in the States, makers are well impressed with it,so, why bother to search for alternate. Cary Chan --part1_0.bd2e173b.256d8c4b_boundary-- from jpsnbs@erols.com Wed Nov 24 12:55:19 1999 Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo? The first six rods I made were made out of a variety of bamboo that wasgrown in Harford County, Maryland. The diameter of the culms at the basewere about 2-2 1/2 inches. The power fibers were much less than thatfoundin Tonkin, however, all six rods are functional and I still fish one almostexclusively along with the ones I made for friends which are also heavilyused with no failures. I can not tell you the specific variety, however,trying other varieties is very interesting and they seem to all havesimilarproperties. I have fished mine for about 7 years with only a hand rubbedtung oil finish.Joe Swam -----Original Message----- Subject: Alternate Bamboo? Has anyone heard of or actually made a rod out ofanything other than Tonkin? I know rods used to bemade out of Calcutta cane before Tonkin was discovered,but I'm talking about modern day makers using some ofthe other types of bamboo available now. For instance,while surfing the internet I came across Moso, Guadua,and Black bamboo, all available in unfinished culms,all 10 to 18 ft. long, and in the case of the Moso andGuadua, up to 6 inches in diameter! Now it seems to meany bamboo 6 inches in diameter has to have some kindof power fiber. Has anybody tried these alternate bamboo species? Darryl Hayashida from DNHayashida@aol.com Wed Nov 24 13:18:12 1999 Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo? Good points, all of them.Please don't take the following as an argument or a flame. Pleaseimagine us as sitting down at your desk talking about this in a friendlydiscussion. It is always so hard to convey friendliness over the internet. About three years ago, Tonkin was in short supply. I could get no culmsat all from Demarest, and the wait for a new shipment was 6 months. IfI knew of an alternate, used for furniture making or whatever, that wouldnot have been a problem. It was only recently that there has been morethan just one or two importers of Tonkin, also, there might be a type ofbamboo that just because of it's nature it overcomes some of the shortcomings of Tonkin. Perhaps the 6 inch diameter Moso has 1/4inch thick power fibers. Nobody knows for sure right now. I wouldlike to find out. As you say, finding a new species and organizing a harvest, processingand shipping it would be a major undertaking, and ultimately themarketfor it would be very small (face it, rodmakers are a small market),but if there is already a type of bamboo being imported that is good forrodmaking,why not take advantage of it. And then this is mostly for my own curiosity. I would like to find out if itcan be done. Darryl I agree with you that there are might be some other Bamboo specie, good makingfly-rods & maybe even better.But, who can organize to harvest and process those , maybe superiorthan Arudin.Amabilis (Lovely bamboo), alternate bambu.Also to control the quality and present to the Fly-rod market.Tea-Stick Bamboo are well established in harvesting, processing & exporting, now the prices are reasonable & with plentiful of supplies, especially,in the Fly-rodmakers' world, at least in the States, makers are well impressed withit,so, why bother to search for alternate. Cary Chan >> from listreader@codemarine.com Wed Nov 24 13:45:00 1999 codemarine.209.170.128.193 with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet MailService Version5.5.2448.0) Subject: Novice question: Nodeless strip splicing Hello, all. Please pardon the email from a newbie. I'm just now in theprocess ofgathering the tools and know- how to begin building my first rod(s). I cameacross adescription of nodeless rod building, and it interests me. However, I havequestionsabout how to prepare the strip pieces for splicing. Specifically: (1) Must I pre-plane the pieces so that they are the same size?(2) Should the pre-splined pieces have a square cross-section, or a roughlypie-piece-shaped look?(3) Most importantly, how do I ensure that I get the proper angle in thetwo pieces thatwill be spliced together so that I get a seamless fit? I've read a good article on the Rodmakers site and I checked the archives but I couldn't find anything that said specifically what angle and length ofsplice touse. Any ideas? I'm sure there are diverse opinions on the notion of nodeless rods, most ofwhich haveprobably already been shared on this list. In an attempt to learn, I amplanning to makeboth a nodeless rod and a traditional-style rod, although I like the idea ofnot havingto make or purchase a special heat oven. I've found a wealth of knowledgeon the Internetand in the Maurer book, but any specific suggestions would certainly begreatlyappreciated. Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com from rsgould@cmc.net Wed Nov 24 14:15:55 1999 Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo? Hi Cary,I'm with you. I say stick with Arundinaria Amabilis, it's a proven quantity.When I sell a rod for big bucks to a customer and he asks what it's made ofand if it's Tonkin Cane, I don't want to say " Oh, I don't know, it's somestuff I grew in the back yard". Another way to look at it a little morescientific - "Show me the numbers". What's are the properties? How dotheycompare?Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Fwd: Alternate Bamboo? In a message dated 11/24/99 10:43:42 AM Pacific Standard Time,BAMBOOIRLwrites: Date: 11/24/99 10:43:42 AM Pacific Standard TimeFrom: BAMBOOIRL I agree with you that there are might be some other Bamboo specie, goodformakingfly-rods & maybe even better.But, who can organize to harvest and process those , maybe superiorthanArudin.Amabilis (Lovely bamboo), alternate bambu.Also to control the quality and present to the Fly- rod market.Tea-Stick Bamboo are well established in harvesting, processing &exporting,now the prices are reasonable & with plentiful of supplies, especially, inthe Fly-rodmakers' world, at least in the States, makers are well impressed withit,so, why bother to search for alternate. Cary Chan >> from DNHayashida@aol.com Wed Nov 24 14:33:19 1999 Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo? Okay, still in the friendly discussion mode - Please don't take this as a flame - The world was flat until someone sailed over the horizon. Howwillwe know unless we try? I'm not going to sell a rod I made from alternatebamboo for any bucks unless I prove to myself it is at least as good,and it might even be better.Darryl In a message dated 11/24/99 12:21:21 PM Pacific Standard Time, rsgould@cmc.net writes: Hi Cary,I'm with you. I say stick with Arundinaria Amabilis, it's a proven quantity.When I sell a rod for big bucks to a customer and he asks what it's madeofand if it's Tonkin Cane, I don't want to say " Oh, I don't know, it's somestuff I grew in the back yard". Another way to look at it a little morescientific - "Show me the numbers". What's are the properties? How dotheycompare?Ray- from BAMBOOIRL@aol.com Wed Nov 24 14:55:37 1999 Subject: Fwd: Alternate Bamboo? boundary="part1_0.8f186e74.256daaa0_boundary" --part1_0.8f186e74.256daaa0_boundary In a message dated 11/24/99 12:52:21 PM Pacific Standard Time,BAMBOOIRL writes: --part1_0.8f186e74.256daaa0_boundary Full-name: BAMBOOIRL Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo? Ray: This Cary Chan, people call me "The Bamboo Earl", with a small rank of noblity.Even the noblities need to talk abt. business or commerce, so, let meintroduce myself-I bring in genuine Audinaria Amabilis (Lovely Bambu) also known as TeaStick Bamboo Canes, from my Cousin, the world's larggest & most leadingBamboofactory, it is located at Wai-sap Township, the only source AudinariaAmabilisare grown, harvested and processed.We still stock 4,000 pc in our warehouse in L.A. Calif You mentioned that, you sell at high prices for your fly-rod made, so, we guess, thatyou need better quality of Bamboo, or "Near to perfection grade"?We also supply average good quality, which is cheaper, but, might possesssome minor defects.People demand to receive supplies of Tonkin Cane (Bamboo), because,Tonkin isthe best specie of all Chinese Bamboo Stakes, but Arudinaria-Amabilis(Tea StickBamboo Stakes) happens to be the best kind out from Tonkin, goodexplanations,Mercedes are the best or best known auto, but, 500 SC is the best out fromMercedes, Tonkin and Aru. Amab.Pls visit our website "www.Bamboopoles.com" We hope you would consider to try us, tks. Cary Chan (The Bamboo Earl) PROGRESS TRADING CO.1140 S. Cypress St. # CLa Habra, South. California 90631-1222 (714) 578-5765, Fax -75email "bambooirl@aol.com" --part1_0.8f186e74.256daaa0_boundary-- from gjm80301@yahoo.com Wed Nov 24 14:59:16 1999 1999 12:59:07 PST Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo? Don't get beaten down, Darryl. Interestingdiscusssion. When someone finds that nodeless cane that comes in 4'x 8' sheets, I'll be VERY interested! VBG --- DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: Okay, still in the friendly discussion mode - Pleasedon't take this as a flame - The world was flat until someone sailed overthe horizon. How willwe know unless we try? I'm not going to sell a rod Imade from alternatebamboo for any bucks unless I prove to myself it isat least as good,and it might even be better.Darryl In a message dated 11/24/99 12:21:21 PM PacificStandard Time, rsgould@cmc.net writes: Hi Cary,I'm with you. I say stick with ArundinariaAmabilis, it's a proven quantity.When I sell a rod for big bucks to a customer andhe asks what it's made ofand if it's Tonkin Cane, I don't want to say "Oh, I don't know, it's somestuff I grew in the back yard". Another way tolook at it a little morescientific - "Show me the numbers". What's arethe properties? How do theycompare?Ray- __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com from fquinchat@locl.net Wed Nov 24 15:01:41 1999 corsair.locl.net(8.9.0/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA10438 for ;Wed, 24 Nov 1999 Subject: Reproduction Reel boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0048_01BF3695.F00BDEC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01BF3695.F00BDEC0 I'm building a reproduction of a classic Farlow reel made of aluminum =and brass. Does anyone have a method to 'antique' brass or give it a =bronze look? Dennis Bertram ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01BF3695.F00BDEC0 I'm building a reproduction of a = = 'antique' brass or give it a bronze look? Dennis =Bertram ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01BF3695.F00BDEC0-- from DNHayashida@aol.com Wed Nov 24 15:15:36 1999 Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo? Beaten down? This has been the most interesting and on topic discussion we have had in a long time.Darryl Don't get beaten down, Darryl. Interestingdiscusssion. When someone finds that nodeless cane that comes in 4'x 8' sheets, I'll be VERY interested! VBG - from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Nov 24 15:56:10 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Wed, 24 Nov 1999 15:56:09 -0600 Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0027_01BF3694.68A88EC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01BF3694.68A88EC0 I agree, just for discussion: If we had a culm, 6"or more, in diameter, with walls over 1/2" thick, =surely we would have a great many more power fibers. The thought of even=a butt section being total power fibers has to hold one's interest. The question is: How many would want to expend the amount of labor =involved with unknown cane, and of an unknown quality/origin, to find =out just how good it is ? It brings visions of double-built power, with =single strip construction ! GMA Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 2:32 PMSubject: Re: Alternate Bamboo? Okay, still in the friendly discussion mode - Please don't take this = flame - The world was flat until someone sailed over the horizon. How =willwe know unless we try? I'm not going to sell a rod I made from =alternatebamboo for any bucks unless I prove to myself it is at least as good,and it might even be better.Darryl rsgould@cmc.net writes: Hi Cary, quantity.When I sell a rod for big bucks to a customer and he asks what it's =made ofand if it's Tonkin Cane, I don't want to say " Oh, I don't know, =it's somestuff I grew in the back yard". Another way to look at it a little =morescientific - "Show me the numbers". What's are the properties? How =do theycompare?Ray- ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01BF3694.68A88EC0 I agree, just for =discussion: If we had a culm, 6"or more, in diameter, with walls over = thick, surely we would have a great many more power fibers. The thought = interest. The question is: How many would want to expend theamount = just how good it is ? It brings visions of double-built power, with = construction ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- DNHayashida@aol.com = Sent: Wednesday, November 24, = PMSubject: Re: Alternate =Bamboo?Okay, still in the friendly discussion mode - = take this as a flame - The world was flat until someone sailed = horizon. How willwe know unless we try? I'm not going to sell a = from alternatebamboo for any bucks unless I prove to myself it is = as good,and it might even be better.DarrylIn a message= 11/24/99 12:21:21 PM Pacific Standard Time, rsgould@cmc.net = in the back yard". Another way to look at it a little = scientific - "Show me the numbers". What's are the properties? How - ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01BF3694.68A88EC0-- from rmoon@ida.net Wed Nov 24 16:23:38 1999 0000 Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo? boundary="------------EB4DFC25AA4965E3ED03561C" --------------EB4DFC25AA4965E3ED03561C RayI think that i have told you once of a bamboo that had the numbersestablishing it as superior to Tonkin. It was a Japanese bamboo used bya rod maker in Tokyo. I asked him a number of times for the species buthe declined to tell me. He had had a series of tests done at Univ ofTokyo. I have handled one of his rods, and it is superb. The mostenchanting thing is the color of the bamboo. Instead of a wheaten colorit was more of a white and it looked just like old polished ivory. I amsure that there are some better things available, but as Mr. Chanindicates it is not likely that we shall see them on the market. I amwith you. The traditional material is Tonkin and I too would hate totell someone with one of my rods that the bamboo was a species grown inSouthern Mississippi. I fail to see any advantage in searching forsomething other than what we have, except as Darrell indicates tosatisfy his curiosity And in response to Nobler while I don't recall the exact reference andam too lazy to look it up, I recall one of the master rodbuildersstating that the combination of the softer pith interior of a bamboo rodsupporting the stronger, stiffer exterior and cushioning its expansionand contraction is one of the important aspects of bamboo as amaterial. Solid power fibers are a NO NO except where unavoidable Ralph --------------EB4DFC25AA4965E3ED03561C RayI think that i have told you once of a bamboo that had the numbers used species a wheaten color it was more of a white and it looked just like old polished as Mr. Chan indicates it is not likely that we shall see them on the hate to tell someone with one of my rods that the bamboo was a species searching satisfyhis curiosityAnd in response to Nobler while I don't recall the exactreferenceand am too lazy to look it up, I recall one of the master rodbuildersstatingthat the combination of the softer pith interior of a bamboo rod supportingthe stronger, stiffer exterior and cushioning its expansion and contraction powerfibers are a NO NO except where unavoidableRalph --------------EB4DFC25AA4965E3ED03561C-- from DNHayashida@aol.com Wed Nov 24 16:51:36 1999 Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo? sure that there are some better things available, but as Mr. Chanindicates it is not likely that we shall see them on the market. What if they are already on the market, and we justhaven't tried it yet? I amwith you. The traditional material is Tonkin and I too would hate totell someone with one of my rods that the bamboo was a species growninSouthern Mississippi. I fail to see any advantage in searching forsomething other than what we have, except as Darrell indicates tosatisfy his curiosity Jeeze folks, how are we ever going to improve if wedon't push the envelope once in a while?Darryl from watson@cape-consult.co.uk Wed Nov 24 16:58:12 1999 Subject: NH Trip boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0088_01BF36C2.C2AAEC00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0088_01BF36C2.C2AAEC00 Thanks to all who respondedTim. ------=_NextPart_000_0088_01BF36C2.C2AAEC00 Thanks to all who respondedTim. ------=_NextPart_000_0088_01BF36C2.C2AAEC00-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Nov 24 16:58:38 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Wed, 24 Nov 1999 16:58:36 -0600 Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0065_01BF369D.21DC14E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0065_01BF369D.21DC14E0 Good points Ralph, and this is all JUST surmising. I think it was Stoner =(Winston) first, and then Howells, who used a soft filler of pine, with =mostly just power fibers on the outside to do the real work. I still =have the visions of the Cross Double-Builts, and their rather small butt =sections, for the power in them. I certainly didn't say let's all go get some of these different types, =and start building rods. I'm the first to be reluctant to expend all the =time involved, just to test the newly found cane, and suggested as much. =Perhaps some smaller, "test sections" could help decide the issue, or at =least, satisfy curiosities ? GMA Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 4:18 PMSubject: Re: Alternate Bamboo? I think that i have told you once of a bamboo that had the numbers =establishing it as superior to Tonkin. It was a Japanese bamboo used by =a rod maker in Tokyo. I asked him a number of times for the species but =he declined to tell me. He had had a series of tests done at Univ of =Tokyo. I have handled one of his rods, and it is superb. The most =enchanting thing is the color of the bamboo. Instead of a wheaten color =it was more of a white and it looked just like old polished ivory. I am =sure that there are some better things available, but as Mr. Chan =indicates it is not likely that we shall see them on the market. I am =with you. The traditional material is Tonkin and I too would hate to =tell someone with one of my rods that the bamboo was a species grown in=Southern Mississippi. I fail to see any advantage in searching for =something other than what we have, except as Darrell indicates to = And in response to Nobler while I don't recall the exact reference and =am too lazy to look it up, I recall one of the master rodbuilders =stating that the combination of the softer pith interior of a bamboo rod =supporting the stronger, stiffer exterior and cushioning its expansion =and contraction is one of the important aspects of bamboo as a material. = ------=_NextPart_000_0065_01BF369D.21DC14E0 Good points Ralph, and this is all JUST = think it was Stoner (Winston) first, and then Howells, who used a soft = pine, with mostly just power fibers on the outside to do the real work. = have the visions of the Cross Double-Builts, and their rather small butt = sections, for the power in them. I certainly didn't say let's all go get some of these = types, and start building rods. I'm the first to be reluctant to expend = time involved, just to test the newly found cane, and suggested as much. = some smaller, "test sections" could help decide the issue, or at least, = curiosities ? GMA ----- Original Message ----- Ralph W =Moon Cc: BAMBOOIRL@aol.com ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Wednesday, November 24, = PMSubject: Re: Alternate =Bamboo?Ray I think that i have told you once of a bamboo = Instead of a wheaten color it was more of a white and it looked just = but as Mr. Chan indicates it is not likely that we shall see them on = too would hate to tell someone with one of my rods that the bamboo was= searching for something other than what we have, except as Darrell = And in response to Nobler while I don't recall the exact = and am too lazy to look it up, I recall one of the master rodbuilders = that the combination of the softer pith interior of a bamboo rod = the stronger, stiffer exterior and cushioning its expansion and = Ralph ------=_NextPart_000_0065_01BF369D.21DC14E0-- from anglport@con2.com Wed Nov 24 17:05:07 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id AE9918E0366; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 18:02:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo? All,This is pure philosophizing, but it would seem to me that unless alargerdiameter culm of bamboo stood an exceedingly larger height than theArundinaria, its sheer width would quite adequately support it with aless- dense power-fiber concentration and be quite unsuitable for our use.If a tube has a larger diameter, it can self-support with a thinner wall,or at least a relatively weaker wall, no? Engineers?As I see it we don't really care about the AMOUNT of power-fibers;we'remore interested in the DENSITY of those fibers in the cross-section we'reable to utilize (The outer 1/4" or so). If the bamboo in question has athree-times-as-thick wall and a twice as much power-fiber quantity, it'snot necessarily going to be an improvement over what we're currentlyemploying.( I'm tryig to get at a 2/3-the-density comparison here).Of course, if Darryl comes up with a newly important species, we'llall beforgetting H.L.Leonard and his ilk DAMN-fast.It all comes down to how far we look as opposed to how far the"foundingfathers" looked and whether they already ruled out whatever we may find. Just one man's theorizing,Art At 03:18 PM 11/24/1999 -0700, Ralph W Moon wrote:Ray I fail to see any advantage in searching for something otherthan what we have, except as Darrell indicates to satisfy his curiosityAndin response to Nobler Solid power fibers are a NO NO except whereunavoidable Ralph *Some people can tell what time it is by looking at the sun, but I never have been able to make out the numbers.* from bob@downandacross.com Wed Nov 24 17:15:28 1999 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: Novice question: Nodeless strip splicing I too am new to actually building, and I love what the nodeless construction has allowed me to do so far. I am going on to rod two knowing that by bypassing node pressing and heating, I did myself a favor. Once I get my beveler going, I will make up the time used in splicing. I don't feel that nodeless is beyond anyone with the knowledge found in Chris Bogart's articles and a little knowledge of traditional approaches.Here's what I have found. Take it with a grain of salt until I get 20 more rods behind me, but so far so good. (Although I still worry about glues holding up.) (1) Must I pre-plane the pieces so that they are the same size?No, but making a squaring jig like in Best of the Planing Form will make things go easier. I pre-plane all tip and butt strips to equal, squared off strips first before splicing. I also use Tom Smithwick idea about going at the splice with a chisel to get the majority done first. Works great. (2) Should the pre-splined pieces have a square cross-section, or a roughly pie-piece-shaped look?They sit in the splice block great when they are square. But, if needed you can splice in a new section if something goes wrong and you already have triangles. I like square pieces to cut and splice (3) Most importantly, how do I ensure that I get the proper angle in the two pieces that will be spliced together so that I get a seamless fit?Less than 6 degrees is recommended. Some else suggested an angled cut22cm long and 1 cm deep at one end. Both work great. I have a fine splicing block from Jon Lintvet at Munro Rod Co. and it works just great. I would guess that it is about 6 degrees or less. I also tried a disk sander at 5 and 6 degrees and it was good, but the gluing surface was not as good as when planed. This is still up for debate. See last weeks thread on that. I have been using Tite Bond II and it is easy to use. Hope it holds up. The toughest part besides prganizing the order of strips is AFFORDING ALL THE 1" PONY CLAMPS!!! I am up to 27. This lets me do 3 strips on average. That's about all I can stand to plane in a session anyway. Did someone say "wrist fatigue?" And that's with a blade the cut shave hair off a baby'sbutt. Good luck, hope I can helpBob Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com from maxs@geocities.co.jp Wed Nov 24 17:29:56 1999 bysv01.geocities.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W) with ESMTP id IAA27683; Thu, 25Nov 1999 08:29:44+0900 (JST) mail.geocities.co.jp(1.3G-GeocitiesJ-3.3) with SMTP id IAA10579; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 08:29:43+0900 (JST) Subject: RE: Alternate Bamboo? Has anyone heard of or actually made a rod out ofanything other than Tonkin? I know rods used to bemade out of Calcutta cane before Tonkin was discovered,but I'm talking about modern day makers using some ofthe other types of bamboo available now. For instance,while surfing the internet I came across Moso, Guadua,and Black bamboo, all available in unfinished culms,all 10 to 18 ft. long, and in the case of the Moso andGuadua, up to 6 inches in diameter! Now it seems to meany bamboo 6 inches in diameter has to have some kindof power fiber. Has anybody tried these alternate bamboo species? Darryl Hayashida Darryl and all, Though I have not read through all the post on this subject, let me jump inthis discussion.(I still have more than 300 messages which I should read on this list.) I am considering to use, Madake (Japanese specie) on my next rod.I have a comparison of Tonkin and Madake on thier shape(power fiber,thickness and internode)on my web listed below. (Please goto tripod one and follow Englishguidance).There are other species in Japan but pure Japanese specie of bamboo isMadake.Another candidate for rod is Hachiku (Chinese specie inported to Japan),Tochiku,Hoteichiku and Moso maybe. Moso and Hotei is not suitable for rod, though we could make it, becausethey have very short internodelength. In general, those species above all have thinner power fibers than Tonkin.So, I may have to analyze the difference of stiffness (modulus ofelasticity)to adjust the existing taper data. Max Satoh,an oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Makeremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:$B%P%s%V! from anglport@con2.com Wed Nov 24 17:35:17 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A5C52180366; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 18:33:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Novice question: Nodeless strip splicing Bob,The one time I tried to splice I used already triangulated pieces andhadan AWFUL time trying to clamp them. I should think the square orrectangular cross-section is the only way to go when not repairing analready-60-deg piece.Accurate?Art At 06:14 PM 11/24/1999 -0500, bob maulucci wrote:I too am new to actually building, and I love what the nodeless construction has allowed me to do so far. I am going on to rod twoknowing that by bypassing node pressing and heating, I did myself a favor. Once I get my beveler going, I will make up the time used in splicing. I don't feel that nodeless is beyond anyone with the knowledge found in Chris Bogart's articles and a little knowledge of traditional approaches.Here's what I have found. Take it with a grain of salt until I get 20 more rods behind me, but so far so good. (Although I still worry about glues holding up.) (1) Must I pre-plane the pieces so that they are the same size?No, but making a squaring jig like in Best of the Planing Form will make things go easier. I pre-plane all tip and butt strips to equal, squared off strips first before splicing. I also use Tom Smithwick idea about going at the splice with a chisel to get the majority done first. Works great. (2) Should the pre-splined pieces have a square cross-section, or aroughly pie-piece-shaped look?They sit in the splice block great when they are square. But, if needed you can splice in a new section if something goes wrong and you already have triangles. I like square pieces to cut and splice (3) Most importantly, how do I ensure that I get the proper angle in the two pieces that will be spliced together so that I get a seamless fit?Less than 6 degrees is recommended. Some else suggested an angled cut22cm long and 1 cm deep at one end. Both work great. I have a fine splicing block from Jon Lintvet at Munro Rod Co. and it works just great. I would guess that it is about 6 degrees or less. I also tried a disk sander at 5 and 6 degrees and it was good, but the gluing surface was not as good as when planed. This is still up for debate. See last weeks thread on that. I have been using Tite Bond II and it is easy to use. Hope it holds up. The toughest part besides prganizing the order of strips is AFFORDING ALLTHE 1" PONY CLAMPS!!! I am up to 27. This lets me do 3 strips on average. That's about all I can stand to plane in a session anyway. Did someone say "wrist fatigue?" And that's with a blade the cut shave hair off a baby'sbutt. Good luck, hope I can helpBob Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com *Some people can tell what time it is by looking at the sun, but I never have been able to make out the numbers.* from rsgould@cmc.net Wed Nov 24 18:26:06 1999 Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004B_01BF3698.8FA2C000" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01BF3698.8FA2C000 Hi George,I believe it was Winston and Powell and the filler was cedar. But =whatever it was they made nice rods.Ray Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 2:58 PMSubject: Re: Alternate Bamboo? Good points Ralph, and this is all JUST surmising. I think it was =Stoner (Winston) first, and then Howells, who used a soft filler of =pine, with mostly just power fibers on the outside to do the real work. =I still have the visions of the Cross Double-Builts, and their rather =small butt sections, for the power in them. I certainly didn't say let's all go get some of these different types, =and start building rods. I'm the first to be reluctant to expend all the =time involved, just to test the newly found cane, and suggested as much. =Perhaps some smaller, "test sections" could help decide the issue, or at =least, satisfy curiosities ? GMA Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 4:18 PMSubject: Re: Alternate Bamboo? I think that i have told you once of a bamboo that had the numbers =establishing it as superior to Tonkin. It was a Japanese bamboo used by =a rod maker in Tokyo. I asked him a number of times for the species but =he declined to tell me. He had had a series of tests done at Univ of =Tokyo. I have handled one of his rods, and it is superb. The most =enchanting thing is the color of the bamboo. Instead of a wheaten color =it was more of a white and it looked just like old polished ivory. I am =sure that there are some better things available, but as Mr. Chan =indicates it is not likely that we shall see them on the market. I am =with you. The traditional material is Tonkin and I too would hate to =tell someone with one of my rods that the bamboo was a species grown in=Southern Mississippi. I fail to see any advantage in searching for =something other than what we have, except as Darrell indicates to = And in response to Nobler while I don't recall the exact reference =and am too lazy to look it up, I recall one of the master rodbuilders =stating that the combination of the softer pith interior of a bamboo rod =supporting the stronger, stiffer exterior and cushioning its expansion =and contraction is one of the important aspects of bamboo as a material. = ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01BF3698.8FA2C000 Hi George,I believe it was Winston and Powelland = was cedar. But whatever it was they made nice rods.Ray ----- Original Message ----- nobler Cc: BAMBOOIRL@aol.com ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Wednesday, November 24, = PMSubject: Re: Alternate =Bamboo? Good points Ralph, and this is all JUST = think it was Stoner (Winston) first, and then Howells, who used a soft = of pine, with mostly just power fibers on the outside to do the real = still have the visions of the Cross Double-Builts, and their rather = sections, for the power in them. I certainly didn't say let's all go get some of these = types, and start building rods. I'm the first to be reluctant to = the time involved, just to test the newly found cane, and suggested as = Perhaps some smaller, "test sections" could help decide the issue, or = least, satisfy curiosities ? GMA ----- Original Message ----- Ralph W =Moon Cc: BAMBOOIRL@aol.com ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Wednesday, November 24,= PMSubject: Re: Alternate =Bamboo?Ray I think that i have told you once of a bamboo = Instead of a wheaten color it was more of a white and it looked just = available, but as Mr. Chan indicates it is not likely that we shall = and I too would hate to tell someone with one of my rods that the = in searching for something other than what we have, except as = And in response to Nobler while I don't recall the exact = and am too lazy to look it up, I recall one of the master = stating that the combination of the softer pith interior of a bamboo = supporting the stronger, stiffer exterior and cushioning its = contraction is one of the important aspects of bamboo as a = Ralph ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01BF3698.8FA2C000-- from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Wed Nov 24 18:30:09 1999 Subject: Re: Novice question: Nodeless strip splicing Do what Bill Fink recommends. Go down to the office supply and get some1"to 2" binder clips. They work great. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com The toughest part besides prganizing the order of strips is AFFORDING ALLTHE 1" PONY CLAMPS!!! I am up to 27. This lets me do 3 strips on average. That's about all I can stand to plane in a session anyway. Did someone say "wrist fatigue?" And that's with a blade the cut shave hair off a baby'sbutt. from Canerods@aol.com Wed Nov 24 18:40:25 1999 Subject: Re: silk In a message dated 11/24/99 7:23:05 AM Pacific Standard Time, tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com writes: Bob Marriott's carries Pearsall and they've got a web site. -- www.bobmarriotts.com Not connected to .... blaa blaa .... (except by large Mastercard bills) Don Burns from rsgould@cmc.net Wed Nov 24 18:44:03 1999 Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo? Hi to all,The bending strength of a tube according to its moment of inertia is inside diameter to the 4th power). So you may figure out the stiffness forvarious sizes, and yes, a larger diameter tube may have a thinner wallthickness and still be stiffer than a smaller tube with a thicker wallthickness.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo? All,This is pure philosophizing, but it would seem to me that unless a largerdiameter culm of bamboo stood an exceedingly larger height than theArundinaria, its sheer width would quite adequately support it with aless- dense power-fiber concentration and be quite unsuitable for ouruse.If a tube has a larger diameter, it can self-support with a thinner wall,or at least a relatively weaker wall, no? Engineers?As I see it we don't really care about the AMOUNT of power-fibers; we'remore interested in the DENSITY of those fibers in the cross-sectionwe'reable to utilize (The outer 1/4" or so). If the bamboo in question has athree-times-as-thick wall and a twice as much power-fiber quantity,it'snot necessarily going to be an improvement over what we're currentlyemploying.( I'm tryig to get at a 2/3-the-density comparison here).Of course, if Darryl comes up with a newly important species, we'll allbeforgetting H.L.Leonard and his ilk DAMN-fast.It all comes down to how far we look as opposed to how far the "foundingfathers" looked and whether they already ruled out whatever we mayfind. Just one man's theorizing,Art At 03:18 PM 11/24/1999 -0700, Ralph W Moon wrote:RayI fail to see any advantage in searching for something otherthan what we have, except as Darrell indicates to satisfy his curiosityAndin response to Nobler Solid power fibers are a NO NO except whereunavoidable Ralph *Some people can tell what time it is by looking at the sun,but I never have been able to make out the numbers.* from rsgould@cmc.net Wed Nov 24 18:54:26 1999 Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo? Hi to all,Should anyone wish to study up on the various species of bamboo I referyouto Luis marden's book "The Angler's Bamboo". You'll find it gets complexvery quickly.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Alternate Bamboo? Has anyone heard of or actually made a rod out ofanything other than Tonkin? I know rods used to bemade out of Calcutta cane before Tonkin was discovered,but I'm talking about modern day makers using some ofthe other types of bamboo available now. For instance,while surfing the internet I came across Moso, Guadua,and Black bamboo, all available in unfinished culms,> >all 10 to 18 ft.long, and in the case of the Moso andGuadua, up to 6 inches in diameter! Now it seems to meany bamboo 6 inches in diameter has to have some kindof power fiber. Has anybody tried these alternate bamboo species? Darryl Hayashida Darryl and all, Though I have not read through all the post on this subject, let me jumpinthis discussion.(I still have more than 300 messages which I should read on this list.) I am considering to use, Madake (Japanese specie) on my next rod.I have a comparison of Tonkin and Madake on thier shape(power fiber,thickness and internode)on my web listed below. (Please goto tripod one and follow Englishguidance).There are other species in Japan but pure Japanese specie of bamboo isMadake.Another candidate for rod is Hachiku (Chinese specie inported to Japan),Tochiku,Hoteichiku and Moso maybe. Moso and Hotei is not suitable for rod, though we could make it, becausethey have very short internodelength. In general, those species above all have thinner power fibers thanTonkin.So, I may have to analyze the difference of stiffness (modulus ofelasticity)to adjust the existing taper data. Max Satoh,an oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Makeremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:$B%P%s%V! http://members.tripod.com/maxrodhttp://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169 from bob@downandacross.com Wed Nov 24 19:13:02 1999 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: Novice question: Nodeless strip splicing Hi Art,Yes, I should guess only to use the triangles in a pinch. If you break a piece off or you come up short for some foolish reason. Square is the only way to go. I should have stressed that. Good catch. One time last week I had a splice pop and I reglued and clamped. I used one 2" pony clamp and it worked on the triangular strip, but it was not ideal. It seemed to take, but I replaced the strip anyway, questioning why the glue had given in the first place.Bob At 06:35 PM 11/24/99 -0500, you wrote:Bob,The one time I tried to splice I used already triangulated pieces and hadan AWFUL time trying to clamp them. I should think the square orrectangular cross-section is the only way to go when not repairing analready-60-deg piece.Accurate?Art At 06:14 PM 11/24/1999 -0500, bob maulucci wrote:I too am new to actually building, and I love what the nodelessconstruction has allowed me to do so far. I am going on to rod twoknowingthat by bypassing node pressing and heating, I did myself a favor. Once Iget my beveler going, I will make up the time used in splicing. I don'tfeel that nodeless is beyond anyone with the knowledge found in ChrisBogart's articles and a little knowledge of traditional approaches.Here's what I have found. Take it with a grain of salt until I get 20 morerods behind me, but so far so good. (Although I still worry about gluesholding up.) (1) Must I pre-plane the pieces so that they are the same size?No, but making a squaring jig like in Best of the Planing Form will makethings go easier. I pre-plane all tip and butt strips to equal, squared offstrips first before splicing. I also use Tom Smithwick idea about goingatthe splice with a chisel to get the majority done first. Works great. (2) Should the pre-splined pieces have a square cross-section, or aroughlypie-piece-shaped look?They sit in the splice block great when they are square. But, if neededyoucan splice in a new section if something goes wrong and you alreadyhavetriangles. I like square pieces to cut and splice (3) Most importantly, how do I ensure that I get the proper angle in thetwo pieces that will be spliced together so that I get a seamless fit?Less than 6 degrees is recommended. Some else suggested an angled cut22cmlong and 1 cm deep at one end. Both work great. I have a fine splicingblock from Jon Lintvet at Munro Rod Co. and it works just great. I wouldguess that it is about 6 degrees or less. I also tried a disk sander at 5and 6 degrees and it was good, but the gluing surface was not as good aswhen planed. This is still up for debate. See last weeks thread on that. I have been using Tite Bond II and it is easy to use. Hope it holds up. Thetoughest part besides prganizing the order of strips is AFFORDING ALLTHE1" PONY CLAMPS!!! I am up to 27. This lets me do 3 strips on average.That's about all I can stand to plane in a session anyway. Did someonesay"wrist fatigue?" And that's with a blade the cut shave hair off a baby'sbutt. Good luck, hope I can helpBob Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com *Some people can tell what time it is by looking at the sun,but I never have been able to make out the numbers.* from bob@downandacross.com Wed Nov 24 19:13:08 1999 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Re: Bob....... boundary="=====================_1099404==_.ALT" --=====================_1099404==_.ALT About this squaring jig. (Best of Planing Form)Take a piece of hardwood, and use your router to cut a groove down the middle of it. I used a 1/4 square bit at about 1/4to 5/16" deep for butts and 3/16" for tips. Looks like this, (but with a groove on top and bottom) Hope this works.___ ____I I I II I I II ________ I I plane down one side until almost at the wood, then I flip. I get pretty nice squared off strips that are very easy to splice and plane. They fit in the initial forms very well. It's worth the effort. The article was by Ron Barch and credits Andy Sekora and George Maurer for introducing it to him, if I recall.Great idea and a great book.Bob At 04:18 PM 11/24/99 -0800, you wrote:......I have been wondering about whether the strips should be square or what...Thanks.....what does this jig look like for making them square? Would you be able to forward me a drawing? I don't have the best of the planing form...any help would be appreciated. I am actually FINALLY going to start this project this weekend.......Ehhhh Gadsssss !!!!!! TIA David Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com productionswebsite, audio, and print designhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbob@downandacross.com --=====================_1099404==_.ALT About this squaring jig. (Best of PlaningForm)Take a piece of hardwood, and use your router to cut a groove down themiddle of it. I used a 1/4 square bit at about 1/4to 5/16" deep forbutts and 3/16" for tips. Looks like this, (but with a groove on topand bottom) Hope this works. I I plane down one side until almost at the wood, then I flip. I get prettynice squared off strips that are very easy to splice and plane. They fitin the initial forms very well. It's worth the effort. The article was byRon Barch and credits Andy Sekora and George Maurer for introducing it tohim, if I recall.Great idea and a great book.Bob At 04:18 PM 11/24/99 -0800, you wrote:......Ihave been wondering about whether the strips should be square orwhat...Thanks.....what does this jig look like for making them square?Would you be able to forward me a drawing? I don't have the best of theplaning form...any help would be appreciated. I am actually FINALLY goingto start this project this weekend.......Ehhhh Gadsssss!!!!!! TIA David Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com productionswebsite, audio, and print designhttp://www.downandacross.com 218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular bob@downandacross.com --=====================_1099404==_.ALT-- from KJoh0001@aol.com Wed Nov 24 19:15:20 1999 Subject: Happy Thanksgiving!! rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu I want to take this time to wish every one of you on these different lists that I belong to a very Happy Thanksgiving!!! I am thankful to know you all, some in person, and some only through the emails that I read. You are the greatest group of people that I am honored to be a part of.The English language falls very short of being able to express the feelingsI have toward all of you!I thank God you were all born and brought into my life!!!! And I am looking forward to meeting as many of you as I possibly can.I love you all in such a very special way! Your fisherman sister,Kath "TWMPW""Life is like a painting, make each day a Masterpiece"Voice Mail: (503) 301-3027ICQ # 25509624 from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Nov 24 19:56:39 1999 Subject: Re: Final Varnishing GMA,I usually finish the cane before the wraps, especially the tips. I may dip the butts one coat after wrapping. Just my $.02.Hank W. from HARMS1@prodigy.net Wed Nov 24 20:03:14 1999 Wed, 24 Nov 1999 21:03:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0037_01BF36BE.AC8D70E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01BF36BE.AC8D70E0 Darryl, It may not be a matter of large diameter (or even of wall-thickness) =that makes good rod-building stock, but rather one of how densely packed=the power fibers are. Guadua, Moso, Nigra, Rubromarginata (and several =other species)are all considered to be excellent "timber bamboo," and =are highly prized for their strength. This does not necessarily mean, =however, that they are also good for building fly rods. Most of these =are of the "Phylostachus" species, and that means (among other things) =that they will all have a deeply grooved sulcis, or "hollow," running on =alternate sides of the cane from node to node. Also, there will =probably be many leaf-bud depressions just above many of the nodes--and=the nodes themselves will probably be rather pronounced. Further, the =density of the power fibers may not be what rod makers look for. Oh, =they'll be there all right, and in great profusion, but possibly not =packed as tightly as Arundinaria Amabilis. That said, I wouldn't give up the search (or the question). I am just =about to try building a rod from some Phylostachus Congesta that I am =growing, and also have some Nigra and Vivax that will require a few =years before maturity. Like you, I think there's gotta be a way we can =develop a domestic source, even though I may not be able to grow the =stuff myself. Many, many species have been introduced to this country, =and are growing successfully almost everywhere (south of zone 6, that =is), but whether or not any of it might be suitable for rod making =remains to be seen. I think the only problem is that nobody has really =carried out the research and experimentation. cheers, Bill Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 9:29 AMSubject: Alternate Bamboo? Has anyone heard of or actually made a rod out ofanything other than Tonkin? I know rods used to bemade out of Calcutta cane before Tonkin was discovered,but I'm talking about modern day makers using some ofthe other types of bamboo available now. For instance,while surfing the internet I came across Moso, Guadua,and Black bamboo, all available in unfinished culms,all 10 to 18 ft. long, and in the case of the Moso andGuadua, up to 6 inches in diameter! Now it seems to meany bamboo 6 inches in diameter has to have some kindof power fiber. Has anybody tried these alternate bamboo species? Darryl Hayashida ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01BF36BE.AC8D70E0 Darryl, It may not be a = diameter (or even of wall-thickness) that makes good rod-building stock,= Nigra, Rubromarginata (and several other species)are all considered to = excellent "timber bamboo," and are highly prized for their = fly rods. Most of these are of the "Phylostachus" species, and that = (among other things) that they will all have a deeply grooved sulcis, or = "hollow," running on alternate sides of the cane from node to = = nodes--and the nodes themselves will probably be rather = Further, the density of the power fibers may not be what rod makers look= Amabilis. That said, Iwouldn't = Phylostachus Congesta that I am growing, and also have some Nigra and = =gotta be a way we can develop a domestic = been introduced to this country, and are growing successfully almost = (south of zone 6, that is), but whether or not any of it might be = really carried out the research and =experimentation. Bill ----- Original Message ----- DNHayashida@aol.com = Sent: Wednesday, November 24, = AMSubject: Alternate =Bamboo?Has anyone heard of or actually made a rod out = other than Tonkin? I know rods used to bemade out of Calcutta cane= Tonkin was discovered,but I'm talking about modern day makers = ofthe other types of bamboo available now. For instance,while = the internet I came across Moso, Guadua,and Black bamboo, all = unfinished culms,all 10 to 18 ft. long, and in the case of the = andGuadua, up to 6 inches in diameter! Now it seems to meany = inches in diameter has to have some kindof power fiber.Has= Hayashida ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01BF36BE.AC8D70E0-- from maxs@geocities.co.jp Wed Nov 24 20:16:09 1999 bysv01.geocities.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W) with ESMTP id LAA06769; Thu, 25Nov 1999 11:16:04+0900 (JST) mail.geocities.co.jp(1.3G-GeocitiesJ-3.3) with SMTP id LAA13370; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 11:16:02+0900 (JST) Subject: RE: Alternate Bamboo? Ralph, RayI think that i have told you once of a bamboo that had the numbersestablishing it as superior to Tonkin. It was a Japanese bamboo used bya rod maker in Tokyo. I asked him a number of times for the species buthe declined to tell me. He had had a series of tests done at Univ ofTokyo. I have handled one of his rods, and it is superb. The mostenchanting thing is the color of the bamboo. Instead of a wheaten colorit was more of a white and it looked just like old polished ivory. This may be Madake or Hachiku which becomes ivory color and in lighterweight in nature when it ismade to a rod.Actually there are several professional split cane rod makers who useMadake They are reinforcing the weakness of power fibers by heat treatment,impregnation and/oradjusting taper a little thicker.Those Japanese bamboo are almost free for us when we ask the owners ofbamboo forest. We also can buy a culm of thick Madake at about US$30.00atmost of Japanese bamboo broker, it is similar price to Tonkin in US.The bamboo market here also is established if someone wouldlike to purchase those thick dia Madake, but they are still in green colorsince they are not treated as the source for rods.We have to let them sleep for 3 to 4 years ourselves before making rodfromthem. Then why do we use Tonkin for bamboo rods?Because Tonkin is the best bamboo in nature for a rod, it is sure.It is also because the culture of rod making (especially the existing taperdata)told us that the Tonkin is the best suit for a rod SO FAR, and thatall the rod shops sell Tonkin only. As Darryl stated, we can have an alternate source of bamboo when a goodquality Tonkin is not available. (I myself would like to use Tonkin though,only if a bestTonkin is available.) Tonkin is very expensive here, A grade cane cost US$100.00 and Super Agradecost US$130.00 for one culm. Can you believe it? Now we cannot evenfindsuch a thick wallTonkin cane (like in a picture of Master Guide's cover) in our market evenif we pay more. Then, why not try to find alternatives? Max Satoh,an oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Makeremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:$B%P%s%V! from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Nov 24 20:28:00 1999 Subject: Re: Reproduction Reel Dennis,You can dilute my Oxidizing solution with water anduse a q-tip to apply the solution to the brass reel parts. Dependingon how much you dilute the oxidizer and how long you rub theq-tip on the brass, will determine how dark the brass turns. Youcan get just a hint of color, or a very dark aged look. Dave LeClair from hexagon@odyssee.net Wed Nov 24 20:55:33 1999 Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo? How can you be sure that a species of cane is better for rodmaking otherthanbuild a rod and use it for a generation.You could substitute all the materials that are the traditional trademarkof afine flyrod.All it takes is marketing, look how North America dumped their cane forthe solidglass Wonder Rod. DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: Okay, still in the friendly discussion mode - Please don't take this as aflame - The world was flat until someone sailed over the horizon. Howwillwe know unless we try? I'm not going to sell a rod I made from alternatebamboo for any bucks unless I prove to myself it is at least as good,and it might even be better.Darryl In a message dated 11/24/99 12:21:21 PM Pacific Standard Time,rsgould@cmc.net writes: Hi Cary,I'm with you. I say stick with Arundinaria Amabilis, it's a provenquantity.When I sell a rod for big bucks to a customer and he asks what it'smade ofand if it's Tonkin Cane, I don't want to say " Oh, I don't know, it's somestuff I grew in the back yard". Another way to look at it a little morescientific - "Show me the numbers". What's are the properties? How dotheycompare?Ray- from hexagon@odyssee.net Wed Nov 24 21:00:57 1999 Subject: Re: Fwd: Alternate Bamboo? Mr Chan,you will not get rich selling bamboo to us, we would rather discuss therelativemerits of anything rather than actually make rods.Hang around and you will get the picture. If not call Andy Royer.Terry BAMBOOIRL@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 11/24/99 12:52:21 PM Pacific Standard Time,BAMBOOIRLwrites: Date: 11/24/99 12:52:21 PM Pacific Standard TimeFrom: BAMBOOIRL Ray: This Cary Chan, people call me "The Bamboo Earl", with a small rank ofnoblity.Even the noblities need to talk abt. business or commerce, so, let meintroduce myself-I bring in genuine Audinaria Amabilis (Lovely Bambu) also known as TeaStickBamboo Canes, from my Cousin, the world's larggest & most leadingBamboofactory, it is located at Wai-sap Township, the only source AudinariaAmabilisare grown, harvested and processed.We still stock 4,000 pc in our warehouse in L.A. Calif You mentioned that, you sell at high prices for your fly-rod made, so, weguess, thatyou need better quality of Bamboo, or "Near to perfection grade"?We also supply average good quality, which is cheaper, but, mightpossesssome minor defects.People demand to receive supplies of Tonkin Cane (Bamboo), because,Tonkin isthe best specie of all Chinese Bamboo Stakes, but Arudinaria-Amabilis(TeaStickBamboo Stakes) happens to be the best kind out from Tonkin, goodexplanations,Mercedes are the best or best known auto, but, 500 SC is the best outfromMercedes, Tonkin and Aru. Amab.Pls visit our website "www.Bamboopoles.com" We hope you would consider to try us, tks. Cary Chan (The Bamboo Earl) PROGRESS TRADING CO.1140 S. Cypress St. # CLa Habra, South. California 90631-1222 (714) 578-5765, Fax -75email "bambooirl@aol.com" >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo?Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 15:52:21 ESTFrom: BAMBOOIRL@aol.com Ray: This Cary Chan, people call me "The Bamboo Earl", with a small rank ofnoblity.Even the noblities need to talk abt. business or commerce, so, let meintroduce myself-I bring in genuine Audinaria Amabilis (Lovely Bambu) also known as TeaStickBamboo Canes, from my Cousin, the world's larggest & most leadingBamboofactory, it is located at Wai-sap Township, the only source AudinariaAmabilisare grown, harvested and processed.We still stock 4,000 pc in our warehouse in L.A. Calif You mentioned that, you sell at high prices for your fly-rod made, so, weguess, thatyou need better quality of Bamboo, or "Near to perfection grade"?We also supply average good quality, which is cheaper, but, mightpossesssome minor defects.People demand to receive supplies of Tonkin Cane (Bamboo), because,Tonkin isthe best specie of all Chinese Bamboo Stakes, but Arudinaria-Amabilis(TeaStickBamboo Stakes) happens to be the best kind out from Tonkin, goodexplanations,Mercedes are the best or best known auto, but, 500 SC is the best outfromMercedes, Tonkin and Aru. Amab.Pls visit our website "www.Bamboopoles.com" We hope you would consider to try us, tks. Cary Chan (The Bamboo Earl) PROGRESS TRADING CO.1140 S. Cypress St. # CLa Habra, South. California 90631-1222 (714) 578-5765, Fax -75email "bambooirl@aol.com" from bob@downandacross.com Wed Nov 24 22:44:56 1999 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: tubes Any recommendations on rod tubes? I need to get a few for some olderrods that have poor fiber tubes, and I also need tubes for rods that I am finishing.Who has decent quality tubes that you can also get in odd sizes? (ie, 7'2" Driggs, 7'8" H-I Tonka Queen) I would even be happy with a cordura covered case. (as in Cabella's, but not labelled as such!) I would like to get these cases for around $20 at tops.Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving,Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Nov 25 07:55:36 1999 "maxs@geocities.co.jp" ,"RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu" ,"rsgould@cmc.net" Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo? Ray Luis's Book is excellent but don't forget ever popular book that hereferences "The Bamboos" by F. A. McClure which is the "Bible" on thistopic.This will help those who want to go much deeper into the subject. BTW -it wasMcClure who first identified and characterized Tonkin. This book has beenre releasedand available from your favorite online bookstore. Chris On Wed, 24 Nov 1999 16:54:03 -0800, Ray Gould wrote: Hi to all,Should anyone wish to study up on the various species of bamboo I referyouto Luis marden's book "The Angler's Bamboo". You'll find it gets complexvery quickly.Ray----- Original Message -----From: Maxrodcraft Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 3:28 PMSubject: RE: Alternate Bamboo? Has anyone heard of or actually made a rod out ofanything other than Tonkin? I know rods used to bemade out of Calcutta cane before Tonkin was discovered,but I'm talking about modern day makers using some ofthe other types of bamboo available now. For instance,while surfing the internet I came across Moso, Guadua,and Black bamboo, all available in unfinished culms,all 10 to 18 ft. long, and in the case of the Moso andGuadua, up to 6 inches in diameter! Now it seems to meany bamboo 6 inches in diameter has to have some kindof power fiber. Has anybody tried these alternate bamboo species? Darryl Hayashida Darryl and all, Though I have not read through all the post on this subject, let me jumpinthis discussion.(I still have more than 300 messages which I should read on this list.) I am considering to use, Madake (Japanese specie) on my next rod.I have a comparison of Tonkin and Madake on thier shape(power fiber,thickness and internode)on my web listed below. (Please goto tripod one and follow Englishguidance).There are other species in Japan but pure Japanese specie of bamboo isMadake.Another candidate for rod is Hachiku (Chinese specie inported to Japan),Tochiku,Hoteichiku and Moso maybe. Moso and Hotei is not suitable for rod, though we could make it, becausethey have very short internodelength. In general, those species above all have thinner power fibers thanTonkin.So, I may have to analyze the difference of stiffness (modulus ofelasticity)to adjust the existing taper data. Max Satoh,an oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Makeremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:$B%P%s%V!> http://members.tripod.com/maxrodhttp://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169 from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Nov 25 08:01:09 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 25 Nov 1999 07:53:22 -0600 Subject: Re: tubes boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0033_01BF371B.3C9E1160" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BF371B.3C9E1160 Some may shrink in horror, but PVC pipe, with their nice fitting caps, =can make super rod storage tubes. You can cement one end, and cut =sponge gasket for the other. You can get it cut to most any length, and =it comes in all diameters. I never thought about it, until now, but they could be covered with a =fancy cloth, or even leather. There are also screw on fittings made for =entrance to sewer drains, that could possibly be glued on to one end. I =used to sell all this stuff in the hardware business, and have been =meaning to check it out. GMA Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 10:43 PMSubject: tubes Any recommendations on rod tubes? I need to get a few for some older = finishing.Who has decent quality tubes that you can also get in odd sizes? (ie, = Driggs, 7'8" H-I Tonka Queen) I would even be happy with a cordura = case. (as in Cabella's, but not labelled as such!) I would like to get = these cases for around $20 at tops.Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving,Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BF371B.3C9E1160 Some may shrink in horror, but PVC pipe, = nice fitting caps, can make super rod storage tubes. You can cement one = and it comes in all diameters. I never thought about it, until now, but they could be = a fancy cloth, or even leather. There are also screw on fittings made = entrance to sewer drains, that could possibly be glued on to one end. I = sell all this stuff in the hardware business, and have been meaning to = out. GMA ----- Original Message ----- maulucci = Sent: Wednesday, November 24, = PMSubject: tubesAny recommendations on rod tubes? I need to get a few = older rods that have poor fiber tubes, and I also need tubes for = I am finishing.Who has decent quality tubes that you can also = odd sizes? (ie, 7'2" Driggs, 7'8" H-I Tonka Queen) I would even be = with a cordura covered case. (as in Cabella's, but not labelled as = I would like to get these cases for around $20 at tops.Thanks = Happy Thanksgiving,Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BF371B.3C9E1160-- from teekay35@interlynx.net Thu Nov 25 09:13:08 1999 Subject: Re: tubes Some of the nice looking rod cases that came with some upscale graphiterods in recent years were made of central vacumn pipe, covered and linedwith fabric. If you are handy with a sewing machine you could make yourown. ---------- Subject: Re: tubes Some may shrink in horror, but PVC pipe, with their nice fitting caps, canmake super rod storage tubes. You can cement one end, and cut spongegasket for the other. You can get it cut to most any length, and it comesin all diameters. I never thought about it, until now, but they could be covered with a fancycloth, or even leather. There are also screw on fittings made for entranceto sewer drains, that could possibly be glued on to one end. I used to sellall this stuff in the hardware business, and have been meaning to check itout. GMA----- Original Message ----- From: bob maulucci Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 10:43 PMSubject: tubes Any recommendations on rod tubes? I need to get a few for some olderrods that have poor fiber tubes, and I also need tubes for rods that I am finishing.Who has decent quality tubes that you can also get in odd sizes? (ie,7'2" Driggs, 7'8" H-I Tonka Queen) I would even be happy with a corduracovered case. (as in Cabella's, but not labelled as such!) I would like to get these cases for around $20 at tops.Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving,Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com from leroyt@involved.com Thu Nov 25 09:14:46 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61049U4500L450S0V35)with SMTP id com; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 07:12:39 -0800 Subject: Re: Novice question: Nodeless strip splicing boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005C_01BF3715.3E81D440" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005C_01BF3715.3E81D440 Just a passing thought, we go to great lengths to purchase the best raw =materials for building and spend a lot of time building a bamboo fly rod =so why not use an adhesive that is up to par with the rest of our =endeavor.Leroy.... ------=_NextPart_000_005C_01BF3715.3E81D440 =FF=FE=00==0D=00=0A==00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00J=00u=00s=00t=00==00a=00 =00p=00a=00s=00s=00i=00n=00g=00 ==00t=00h=00o=00u=00g=00h=00t=00,=00 =00w=00e=00 =00g=00o=00=00t=00o=00 ==00=0D=00=0A==00g=00r=00e=00a=00t=00 =00l=00e=00n=00g=00t=00h=00s=00=00t=00o=00 ==00p=00u=00r=00c=00h=00a=00s=00e=00 =00t=00h=00e=00=00b=00e=00s=00t=00 ==00r=00a=00w=00 =00m=00a=00t=00e=00r=00i=00a=00l=00s=00=00f=00o=00r=00 ==00b=00u=00i=00l=00d=00i=00n=00g=00 =00a=00n=00d=00 ==00s=00p=00e=00n=00d=00 =00a=00 =00l=00o=00t=00 =00o=00f=00=00=0D=00=0A==00t=00i=00m=00e=00 =00b=00u=00i=00l=00d=00i=00n=00g=00 =00a=00==00b=00a=00m=00b=00o=00o=00 =00f=00l=00y=00 =00r=00o=00d=00=00s=00o=00 ==00w=00h=00y=00 =00n=00o=00t=00 =00u=00s=00e=00 =00a=00n=00 ==00a=00d=00h=00e=00s=00i=00v=00e=00 =00t=00h=00a=00t=00=00i=00s=00 ==00u=00p=00 =00t=00o=00 =00p=00a=00r=00 =00w=00i=00t=00h=00=00=0D=00=0A==00t=00h=00e=00 =00r=00e=00s=00t=00 =00o=00f=00 =00o=00u=00r=00==00e=00n=00d=00e=00a=00v=00o=00r=00.=00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00L=00e=00r=00o=00y=00.=00.=00.=00.=00=00=00==00=00=0D=00=0A==00------ =_NextPart_000_005C_01BF3715.3E81D440-- from BigJohn47@aol.com Thu Nov 25 09:20:40 1999 Subject: varnish does anyone know of a source for prattt & lambert varmor 10 varnish inmy area . i live in northern california.i would like to wish everyone happy thanksgiving from caneman@clnk.com Thu Nov 25 09:37:47 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Thu, 25 Nov 1999 09:36:02 -0600 Subject: Exposure... boundary="----=_NextPart_000_029C_01BF3728.47176BC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_029C_01BF3728.47176BC0 but I do have a links page for rodmakers on my website. Anyone =interested in having a link to their site on there, just email me with =what you want said and I will post it. Same goes for those who do NOT =have websites. I have a few posted on their now with names, addy's = Bob ------=_NextPart_000_029C_01BF3728.47176BC0 = several of you responded, but I do have a links page for rodmakers on my = = Bob ------=_NextPart_000_029C_01BF3728.47176BC0-- from fiveside@net-gate.com Thu Nov 25 10:16:54 1999 ns1.net-gate.com (8.9.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA27911 for; Subject: Alternate Bamboo To the List,If anyone is interested in making up test sample sections of alternatecane I will be happy to work with them to measure modulus data. Thiswouldbe real data instead of conjecture, of which we seem to have a surplus.Bill from fiveside@net-gate.com Thu Nov 25 10:16:55 1999 ns1.net-gate.com (8.9.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA27914 for; Subject: Poles To the List,Would it be less objectionable if we called fly rods Lithuanians? Bill from caneman@clnk.com Thu Nov 25 10:20:49 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Thu, 25 Nov 1999 10:19:11 -0600 Subject: Have a nice day! boundary="----=_NextPart_000_02C0_01BF372E.4E122AE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_02C0_01BF372E.4E122AE0 Don't eat too much, cause your belly will hang over your planing forms = Bob N. ------=_NextPart_000_02C0_01BF372E.4E122AE0 Just wanted to wish all my fellow rodmakers and aspiring rodmakers=a Don't eat too much, cause your belly will hang over your planing = tomorrow, Bob N. ------=_NextPart_000_02C0_01BF372E.4E122AE0-- from daburns@mediaone.net Thu Nov 25 11:46:03 1999 Subject: [Fwd: unsubscribe] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------26679B73E21 second try. thanks --------------26679B73E21 Subject: unsubscribe Taking a brake. Please unsubscribe me for now. --------------26679B73E21-- from rsgould@cmc.net Thu Nov 25 11:57:08 1999 Subject: Re: tubes Hi Bob et al,Good question and here are a number of suggestions. For temporary tubesforinexpensive old clunkers try your local hardware store for flourescentlighttube guards. These are clear plastic tubes 1 5/8" diameter with blackplastic end caps and are very cheap. Another suggestion is to buy somePVCpipe and caps cutting the pipe to the desired length and gluing on the endpieces one of which would have a screwed cap. To upgrade a little furtheryou can purchase aluminum rod cases from places like Angler's Workshop(nopersonal connection) for something on the order of $25.00. Now if youwishto make a fancy rod case there are a number of options. I've madehexagonalrod cases from cedar, mahogany, fir and spruce and fitted one end with aremovable cap held on with a nylon strap. You'll need a table saw for thisjob. However the rod case I prefer when making my own is to buy woodtubes from Hollowood in Michigan (again no connection for me). They areavailablein 2" diameter in all kinds of outside ply including maple, mahogany,walnut, cherry, & oak. These tubes are 8ft long and cost about $30. Thesetubes can be fitted with brass end caps made by Tuxedo Custom Rods(usualdisclaimer) and they cost about $15 per set. The advantage of this type ofrod tube is that it is fairly inexpensive, are quite strong since they arethin walled plywood, yet are very nice looking when finished.Ray Gould----- Original Message ----- Subject: tubes Any recommendations on rod tubes? I need to get a few for some olderrodsthat have poor fiber tubes, and I also need tubes for rods that I amfinishing.Who has decent quality tubes that you can also get in odd sizes? (ie, 7'2"Driggs, 7'8" H-I Tonka Queen) I would even be happy with a corduracoveredcase. (as in Cabella's, but not labelled as such!) I would like to getthese cases for around $20 at tops.Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving,Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com from hartzell@easystreet.com Thu Nov 25 12:36:54 1999 KAA04585; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Alternate Bamboo? A87154A05D43924FC948EBE2" --------------A87154A05D43924FC948EBE2 I think the first one to use a core of cedar or pine was Powell. Hedescribed his method in a series of pamphlets which have since beenreprinted. His contention was that the extreme outer layer ( as in apipe) was what counted and the rest merely added weight, Since he won agreat many casting prizes, I think his idea was correct. I have builtsome rods on his principle and they work very well. I agree with thosewho say that the density of the outer fibers is the important thing, notthe depth.Ed Hartzellnobler wrote: Good points Ralph, and this is all JUST surmising. I think it wasStoner (Winston) first, and then Howells, who used a soft filler ofpine, with mostly just power fibers on the outside to do the realwork. I still have the visions of the Cross Double-Builts, and theirrather small butt sections, for the power in them. I certainly didn'tsay let's all go get some of these different types, and start buildingrods. I'm the first to be reluctant to expend all the time involved,just to test the newly found cane, and suggested as much. Perhaps somesmaller, "test sections" could help decide the issue, or at least,satisfy curiosities ? GMA ----- Original Message -----From: Ralph W Moon Cc: BAMBOOIRL@aol.com ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSent: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 4:18 PMSubject: Re: Alternate Bamboo?RayI think that i have told you once of a bamboo that had thenumbers establishing it as superior to Tonkin. It was aJapanese bamboo used by a rod maker in Tokyo. I asked him anumber of times for the species but he declined to tell me.He had had a series of tests done at Univ of Tokyo. I havehandled one of his rods, and it is superb. The mostenchanting thing is the color of the bamboo. Instead of awheaten color it was more of a white and it looked just likeold polished ivory. I am sure that there are some betterthings available, but as Mr. Chan indicates it is not likelythat we shall see them on the market. I am with you. Thetraditional material is Tonkin and I too would hate to tellsomeone with one of my rods that the bamboo was a speciesgrown in Southern Mississippi. I fail to see any advantagein searching for something other than what we have, exceptas Darrell indicates to satisfy his curiosity And in response to Nobler while I don't recall the exactreference and am too lazy to look it up, I recall one of themaster rodbuilders stating that the combination of thesofter pith interior of a bamboo rod supporting thestronger, stiffer exterior and cushioning its expansion andcontraction is one of the important aspects of bamboo as amaterial. Solid power fibers are a NO NO except whereunavoidable Ralph --------------A87154A05D43924FC948EBE2 He described his method in a series of pamphlets which have since been------- ----------------------- Cut here ---------------------------- I agree with those who say that the density of the outer fibers is theimportant thing, not the depth.Ed Hartzellnobler wrote: Good pointsRalph, and this is all JUST surmising. I think it was Stoner (Winston)first, and then Howells, who used a soft filler of pine, with mostly justpower fibers on the outside to do the real work. I still have the visionsof the Cross Double-Builts, and their rather small butt sections, for the some of these different types, and start building rods. I'm the first tobe reluctant to expend all the time involved, just to test the newly foundcane, and suggested as much. Perhaps some smaller, "test sections" couldhelp decide the issue, or at least, satisfy curiosities ----- Original Message ----- From:Ralph WMoon Cc: BAMBOOIRL@aol.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 19994:18 PM Subject: Re: AlternateBamboo? I think that i have told you once of a bamboo that had the numbers used species a wheaten color it was more of a white and it looked just like old polished as Mr. Chan indicates it is not likely that we shall see them on the hate to tell someone with one of my rods that the bamboo was a species searching satisfyhis curiosity And in response to Nobler while I don't recall the exactreferenceand am too lazy to look it up, I recall one of the master rodbuildersstatingthat the combination of the softer pith interior of a bamboo rod supportingthe stronger, stiffer exterior and cushioning its expansion and contraction powerfibers are a NO NO except where unavoidable Ralph --------------A87154A05D43924FC948EBE2-- from brewer@teleport.com Thu Nov 25 13:22:40 1999 0000 (216.26.32.174) Subject: Re: tubes & turkeys If you buy a pipe cutter (a device that resembles a clamp with rollers andacircular cutting blade), you can easily cut the aluminum tubes to lengthafter removing the bottom with a broom handle. It's been difficult for metofind aluminum cases for less than $20 each, unless someone on the listknowsof a source. P.S. Happy Thanksgiving to you all! Randy Brewer -----Original Message----- Subject: tubes Any recommendations on rod tubes? I need to get a few for some olderrodsthat have poor fiber tubes, and I also need tubes for rods that I amfinishing.Who has decent quality tubes that you can also get in odd sizes? (ie, 7'2"Driggs, 7'8" H-I Tonka Queen) I would even be happy with a corduracoveredcase. (as in Cabella's, but not labelled as such!) I would like to getthese cases for around $20 at tops.Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving,Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com from lars32@gateway.net Thu Nov 25 14:44:16 1999 Subject: Re: varnish Pratt and Lambert have a web site. I also talked to a technician on thephone the other day for info. Very helpfull people. The phone number is;1-800-289- 7728. My 2 cents is that it is a great finish. You put it on arod it is lifetime! Dave-----Original Message----- Subject: varnish does anyone know of a source for prattt & lambert varmor 10 varnish inmyarea . i live in northern california.i would like to wish everyone happythanksgiving from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Nov 25 15:11:12 1999 Subject: RE: silk I've had a very good experience working with Russ on several things - veryhelpful, excellent supplies, and some wonderfully designed tools. He givesme 80% of everything he makes. (Not really, no connection.) Barry Kling -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 10:41 AM Cc: rod 'akersSubject: Re: silk Try Russ Gooding at Goldenwitch, --http://www.goldenwitch.com/ Harry timothy troester wrote: who sells pearsall's on-line? ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in oneplace.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com from lars32@gateway.net Thu Nov 25 19:08:09 1999 Subject: Cheap Gear motor boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001B_01BF3778.8A137F40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01BF3778.8A137F40 American Science and Surplus (no pers. int.) (847)982-0870 tel. on =page 47 of their catalog has small timing motors that can be used to =withdraw rods from a dip tube. The one I use is one RPM. I made a =pulley with a clutch using springs, washers, and threaded rod. It pulls =the rod out at 4 inches per minute. they are $2.75 Yep 2 dollars and 75 =pennies. It works like a charm Dave ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01BF3778.8A137F40 American Science and Surplus (no= timing motors that can be used to withdraw rods from a dip tube. The one= threaded rod. It pulls the rod out at 4 inches per minute. they are = Dave ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01BF3778.8A137F40-- from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Nov 25 19:18:40 1999 1999 17:18:38 PST Subject: Re: tubes you know bob i use pvc(schedual 40). i have 2 reasons everybody knows all flyrods are worth stealing andselling on ebay, and it happens. 2)i destroyed a rodonce when i backed over the tube with my pickup. iintentionally drove over a pvc tube with an old rodin it and was no worse for the wear. i have nicetubes and boxes that have been made for me but when igo fishing, really, pvc is practical for me. now itappears to me that really nice metal tubes can be made from standard stock at a plumbing supply store and ifyou are planning to use several tubes it might be away to have something a little different from thecrowd. timothy --- bob maulucci wrote:Any recommendations on rod tubes? I need to get afew for some older rods that have poor fiber tubes, and I also need tubes finishing.Who has decent quality tubes that you can also getin odd sizes? (ie, 7'2" Driggs, 7'8" H-I Tonka Queen) I would even be happywith a cordura covered case. (as in Cabella's, but not labelled as such!) Iwould like to get these cases for around $20 at tops.Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving,Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Nov 25 19:23:35 1999 1999 17:23:31 PST Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo? just for the record, i made a flyrod from native canei cut myself in southern illinois. i wouldn'trecommend that specific variety of cane, it was apain-in-the-a__ process but there was this jack-legknow-it-all that said it couldn't be done. timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com from oakmere@carol.net Thu Nov 25 20:29:50 1999 Subject: RE: Rod Cases Bob: I just purchased two cases from REC (no association). They have availablejust about any size. I got mine powdered coated with gold caps (extra) andthey were about $25 to $30. I think their plane ones are about $20> FrankFrank Paul, GreyFox2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 29672fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work)oakmere@carol.net (home) from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Nov 25 20:40:28 1999 Subject: Re: Rod taper theories Bill et al,None of the "parabolics" that I've made have a concavity in the graphed taper, hence no "hinge". The taper tends to work the steeper tip on short casts and due to the less steep butt the whole rod works on the longercasts. I must admit that upon making a Payne 102 taper I didn't like it at firstbut think its great now that I've "mastered" itRegards, Hank. P.S. I'm going over old e-mail so this is a response to an old post. from gjm80301@yahoo.com Thu Nov 25 22:59:03 1999 1999 20:59:01 PST Subject: Re: Cheap Gear motor I found a similar one at a local electronics supplystore. My pulley is even easier - a nylon screen doorroller. Just needed to drill the center out ot fit. It pulls out at about 2.2" per minute. --- lars32 wrote:American Science and Surplus (no pers. int.) (847)982- 0870 tel. on page 47 of their catalog hassmall timing motors that can be used to withdrawrods from a dip tube. The one I use is one RPM. Imade a pulley with a clutch using springs, washers,and threaded rod. It pulls the rod out at 4 inchesper minute. they are $2.75 Yep 2 dollars and 75pennies. It works like a charm Dave __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com from richjez@enteract.com Thu Nov 25 23:05:12 1999 (envelope- from richjez@enteract.com) Subject: Re: Cheap Gear motor If in the Chicago area. their store is located at the junction of Foster ave, Milwaukee ave, and Northwest Hgy. They have many motors of various speeds and voltages available. They have many other, too numerous to list here, products.Rich (no interest in the store) Jezioro At 07:09 PM 11/25/99 -0800, lars32 wrote:American Science and Surplus (no pers. int.) (847)982-0870 tel. on page 47 of their catalog has small timing motors that can be used to withdraw rods from a dip tube. The one I use is one RPM. I made a pulley with a clutch using springs, washers, and threaded rod. It pulls the rod out at 4 inches per minute. they are $2.75 Yep 2 dollars and 75 pennies. It works like a charm Dave *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@ /||/______/_||_________________________________________||/\/ \ > > from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Nov 25 23:54:08 1999 Thu, 25 Nov 1999 21:53:55 -0800 Subject: Re: tubes It does seem that you could make nice tubes, but I have had no luck atfinding caps at a reasonable cost. You can buy them from REC, but theprice is more than I want to pay. Anyone know a good source for 1 5/8"caps? Harry timothy troester wrote: now itappears to me that really nice metal tubes can be made from standard stock at a plumbing supply store and ifyou are planning to use several tubes it might be away to have something a little different from thecrowd. timothy from maxs@geocities.co.jp Fri Nov 26 02:39:06 1999 bysv01.geocities.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W) with ESMTP id RAA16990 for; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 17:39:00 +0900 (JST) mail.geocities.co.jp(1.3G-GeocitiesJ-3.3) with SMTP id RAA07919 for; Fri, 26 Nov1999 17:38:58 +0900 (JST) Subject: Para 15 Hi, Can someone let me know the appearance of real Para 15, on grip shape,length, reel seats,wrap color(for wet tip and dry if they are different), guide (color, numbersof snakes), feruules (type, material)and color of bamboo? Or would you please teach me some book which carries those pictures ofPHYrods, if it exists? I was asked to make a replica of Para 15 from a friend of mine for hismemorial. Thanks in advance. Max Max Satoh,an oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Makeremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:$B%P%s%V! from mrmac@tcimet.net Fri Nov 26 06:47:25 1999 Subject: Varmor Hi, all - Hope everyone had a great turkey day. I'm looking for somehelp on the Varmor numbers if anyone is familiar with P&L numbering.After tracking down an "almost local" source for Varmor, I drove downand picked up a quart last week. When I did, I noticed that the can waslabelled R7, not R10. The lady at the store said it was no big deal andthat they use all kinds of different numbers for the same stuff (orsomething to that effect). I don't expect anyone would be at P&L todayand I'd like to try the stuff out this weekend, but if it's the wrongstuff, I'd rather return it for "R10". So, before I open this fairlyexpensive little quart of liquid gold, does anyone knows if thisdifference in numbers is significant? Thanks for your help - mac from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Nov 26 06:54:42 1999 1999 04:54:39 PST Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo? rich, it was okay. i fished it exclusively until mycritic went away. timothy --- Rich Jezioro wrote:So how did it cast?Rich At 05:23 PM 11/25/99 -0800, you wrote: just for the record, i made a flyrod from nativecanei cut myself in southern illinois. i wouldn'trecommend that specific variety of cane, it was apain-in-the-a__ process but there was this jack-legknow-it-all that said it couldn't be done. timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All inone place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@ /||/ ______/_||_________________________________________||/\/ \ > >/ \ > ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Nov 26 08:33:44 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 26 Nov 1999 08:33:52 -0600 Subject: Re: Varmor boundary="----=_NextPart_000_007A_01BF37E8.F4FFAC00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_007A_01BF37E8.F4FFAC00 I've never tried P&L, yet anyway. I suspect the numbers may refer to =whether it is good for outdoor use, i.e., an ultra-violet screen = I would think that some instructions on the can would say something =about this. Perhaps P&L have a web site that will tell of this, or an =800 no. where you can call to ask ? GMA Sent: Friday, November 26, 1999 6:46 AMSubject: Varmor Hi, all - Hope everyone had a great turkey day. I'm looking for somehelp on the Varmor numbers if anyone is familiar with P&L numbering.After tracking down an "almost local" source for Varmor, I drove downand picked up a quart last week. When I did, I noticed that the can =waslabelled R7, not R10. The lady at the store said it was no big deal =andthat they use all kinds of different numbers for the same stuff (orsomething to that effect). I don't expect anyone would be at P&L =todayand I'd like to try the stuff out this weekend, but if it's the wrongstuff, I'd rather return it for "R10". So, before I open this fairlyexpensive little quart of liquid gold, does anyone knows if thisdifference in numbers is significant? Thanks for your help - mac ------=_NextPart_000_007A_01BF37E8.F4FFAC00 I've never tried P&L, yet anyway. I = numbers may refer to whether it is good for outdoor use, i.e., an = screen additive. This is based on many years of using other such = I would think that some instructions onthe = tell of this, or an 800 no. where you can call to ask =? GMA ----- Original Message ----- Ralph= = Sent: Friday, November 26, 1999= AMSubject: Varmor looking for somehelp on the Varmor numbers if anyone is familiar = P&L numbering.After tracking down an "almost local" source for= was no big deal andthat they use all kinds of different numbers = be at P&L todayand I'd like to try the stuff out this weekend, = open this fairlyexpensive little quart of liquid gold, does anyone = if thisdifference in numbers is significant?Thanks for = -mac ------=_NextPart_000_007A_01BF37E8.F4FFAC00-- from rcurry@ttlc.net Fri Nov 26 08:51:35 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id AF8DE4BB0064; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 09:56:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Varmor boundary="------------926FC859C5D35994E770F457" --------------926FC859C5D35994E770F457 I don't know about the Varmor, but I bought a gallon of P&L 61 Spar sixmonths ago and have been pleased with the half dozen rods I dipped (onceI got the hang of thinning properly).Best regards,Reed nobler wrote: I've never tried P&L, yet anyway. I suspect the numbers may refer towhether it is good for outdoor use, i.e., an ultra-violet screenadditive. This is based on many years of using other such products. Iwould think that some instructions on the can would say somethingabout this. Perhaps P&L have a web site that will tell of this, or an800 no. where you can call to ask ? GMA ----- Original Message -----From: Ralph MacKenzie Sent: Friday, November 26, 1999 6:46 AMSubject: VarmorHi, all - Hope everyone had a great turkey day. I'mlooking for somehelp on the Varmor numbers if anyone is familiar with P&Lnumbering.After tracking down an "almost local" source for Varmor, Idrove downand picked up a quart last week. When I did, I noticed thatthe can waslabelled R7, not R10. The lady at the store said it was nobig deal andthat they use all kinds of different numbers for the samestuff (orsomething to that effect). I don't expect anyone would beat P&L todayand I'd like to try the stuff out this weekend, but if it'sthe wrongstuff, I'd rather return it for "R10". So, before I openthis fairlyexpensive little quart of liquid gold, does anyone knows ifthisdifference in numbers is significant? Thanks for your help - mac --------------926FC859C5D35994E770F457 I don't know about the Varmor, but I bought a gallon of P&L 61 Sparsix months ago and have been pleased with the half dozen rods I dipped(once I got the hang of thinning properly).Best regards,Reednobler wrote: I've never triedP&L, yet anyway. I suspect the numbers may refer to whether it isgood would think that some instructions on the can would say something aboutthis. Perhaps P&L have a web site that will tell of this, or an 800 ----- Original Message ----- From:RalphMacKenzie Sent: Friday, November 26, 1999 6:46AM Subject: Varmor help on the Varmor numbers if anyone is familiar with P&Lnumbering.After tracking down an "almost local" source for Varmor, I drove down can was deal andthat they use all kinds of different numbers for the same stuff (or P&L todayand I'd like to try the stuff out this weekend, but if it's the wrong fairlyexpensive little quart of liquid gold, does anyone knows if thisdifference in numbers is significant?Thanks for your help -mac --------------926FC859C5D35994E770F457-- from caneman@clnk.com Fri Nov 26 10:13:42 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 10:12:03 -0600 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Para 15 Max,I once had a PHY Para 15, so I'll tell you all I can remember about it.Grip shape on this one was a smaller grip, it was custom made for awoman,but it was a straight cigar grip, no contours, 7.5" long. I don't know ifthis was standard or not for Mr. Young. The reelseat on this one was ascrewing uplock, plain walnut filler. The wraps were a medium green,moreof an olive color. The cane on this rod was dark mottled flamed. All metalhardware was blued. Stipper guide was very similar to the SRMC available from anglers workshop, it was about a size 12. That's about all I canremember, as it has been 5 years since I sold this rod. If you want realdetails, contact Bob Sumner (sorry, I lost contact with him years ago, butsomeone on the list may know). He knows quite a lot about the PHY's. Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Para 15 Hi, Can someone let me know the appearance of real Para 15, on grip shape,length, reel seats,wrap color(for wet tip and dry if they are different), guide (color,numbersof snakes), feruules (type, material)and color of bamboo? Or would you please teach me some book which carries those pictures ofPHYrods, if it exists? I was asked to make a replica of Para 15 from a friend of mine for hismemorial. Thanks in advance. Max Max Satoh,an oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Makeremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:$B%P%s%V!http://members.tripod.com/maxrodhttp://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from djk762@hotmail.com Fri Nov 26 10:20:12 1999 Fri, 26 Nov 1999 08:19:39 PST Subject: 7'6" 3 piece 5wt. Rodmakers, Do any of you have a recommendation for a 7'6" 3 piece 5wt.?Has anyone made/cast the Martha Marie in the hexrod taper archives?I'm looking for a good general purpose travel rod taper. Thanks. David Kashuba ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from jfreeman@cyberport.com Fri Nov 26 10:41:20 1999 Subject: Good web site boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01BF37F2.3745D540" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BF37F2.3745D540 While resting my fingers from rod whipping, I happened to run across =this site in the UK - =http://www.elisis.com/Fly.fishing.history/contents.htm. It contains Len =Codella's methods for restoring silk lines as well as many other =subjects. For those interested in the history of fly fishing, it's here = ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BF37F2.3745D540 Gents, While resting my fingers from rod = It contains Len Codella's methods for restoring silk lines as well as = subjects. For those interested in the history of fly fishing, it's here = mother land. Also old hooks, Patterns of J.J. Traherne and more. Thought = might enjoy, if you haven't seen before. Happy Thanksgiving. Jim ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BF37F2.3745D540-- from jkcerise@rof.net Fri Nov 26 12:24:02 1999 Subject: Re: tubes & turkeys Hello to the list,There are aluminum tubes available to those of you with sales taxresalelicenses. (Basically , all this says to your vendor is that you areactually in business and that you aren't just arming yourself at someoneelse's loss of a sale.) Answers the question of are you in this for fun oryou serious about it? The supplier that I use with great service (I mustadd that there's nothing in this for me but maybe a thanks from the ownernext time we fish!), is Alpine Tackle Supply 15353 E. Hinsdale Circle UnitI, Englewood, CO 80112. Phone is 303-680-0661. Vince, Steve or Samwillbe happy to help you out! Pricing is less than your $20 limit and serviceis great. Hope you get fixed up with them. I have been doing businesswith them for years and have no complaints. These guys serve us littlefolks as well as the large accounts and I have nothing but good to say. John At 01:25 PM 11/25/99 -0800, you wrote:If you buy a pipe cutter (a device that resembles a clamp with rollers andacircular cutting blade), you can easily cut the aluminum tubes to lengthafter removing the bottom with a broom handle. It's been difficult for metofind aluminum cases for less than $20 each, unless someone on the listknowsof a source. P.S. Happy Thanksgiving to you all! Randy Brewer -----Original Message-----From: bob maulucci Date: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 8:51 PMSubject: tubes Any recommendations on rod tubes? I need to get a few for some olderrodsthat have poor fiber tubes, and I also need tubes for rods that I amfinishing.Who has decent quality tubes that you can also get in odd sizes? (ie, 7'2"Driggs, 7'8" H-I Tonka Queen) I would even be happy with a corduracoveredcase. (as in Cabella's, but not labelled as such!) I would like to getthese cases for around $20 at tops.Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving,Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com John K. CeriseColorado Custom RodsCarbondale, CO 81623970-963- 2795jkcerise@rof.net from anglport@con2.com Fri Nov 26 14:26:21 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id AC932810364; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 15:24:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Good web site I think there were some people who were trying to decipher that Hardynumbering system on the list awhile back. Take a look at the site that Jimsuggests, especially: http://www.elisis.com/Fly.fishing.history/hardy_rod_manufacturing_dates.htm It seems to lay out their method quite clearly.Thanks for the info Jim.Art At 09:40 AM 11/26/1999 -0600, Jim and Sallyann Freeman wrote:Gents, While resting my fingers from rod whipping, I happened to runacross this site in the UK - http://www.elisis.com/Fly.fishing.history/contents.htm. It contains LenCodella's methods for restoring silk lines as well as many other subjects. mother land. Also old hooks, Patterns of J.J. Traherne and more. Thoughtyou all might enjoy, if you haven't seen before. Happy Thanksgiving. Jim *Some people can tell what time it is by looking at the sun, but I never have been able to make out the numbers.* from rcurry@ttlc.net Fri Nov 26 14:28:15 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id AE7F20FD0106; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 15:33:03 -0500 Subject: Mills "Standard" fly rod Question All,I have often seen the Mills "Standard" rods listed as Leonard- Mills"Standard" and assumed that this was a low-grade Leonard that wasmarkedunder Mills own name. However, I've seen a number of these rods now andthey seem to be of fine workmanship (3x3 node spacing, no water marks,etc.)Does anyone know who made these rods? Did Mills have its ownproduction people in Highland Mills before it brought down Leonard?Some differences:The ferrules have different welting.The ferrules are not serrated, but annealed and peaned (nicely).The last 3 snakes on each original tip are reverse twist, all othersare American.\Thanks.Best regards,Reed from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Nov 26 16:25:54 1999 Subject: Re: Mills "Standard" fly rod Question Sorry I can't give any information on this rod, but Iwould like to add a qustion of my own. Is there a sticker or writing on the rod itself, or is the onlyplace the Leonard-Mills logo appears is on the end cap?Darryl Hayashida All,I have often seen the Mills "Standard" rods listed as Leonard- Mills"Standard" and assumed that this was a low-grade Leonard that wasmarkedunder Mills own name. However, I've seen a number of these rods now andthey seem to be of fine workmanship (3x3 node spacing, no water marks,etc.)Does anyone know who made these rods? Did Mills have its ownproduction people in Highland Mills before it brought down Leonard?Some differences:The ferrules have different welting.The ferrules are not serrated, but annealed and peaned (nicely).The last 3 snakes on each original tip are reverse twist, all othersare American.\Thanks.Best regards,Reed from jfreeman@cyberport.com Fri Nov 26 19:46:55 1999 ,"Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Final Varnishing boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0048_01BF383E.695A0BE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01BF383E.695A0BE0 Why the "wet" phase? Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 8:19 AMSubject: Re: Final Varnishing This wrapping over varnish, and getting grooves under the wraps, =sounds like a function of drying time/coat thickness. My u\se of the =various poly urethanes, says they get dry, and much more brittle, =faster. Such a finish on metal, with chip easier, than a regular enamel, =or varnish. There are some clear epoxy enamels that are both tough, and =flexible. When wrapping, guides, I've always used my thumb nail to push the =windings tight, every few turns. The fuzzies are singed, and smoothed =with a non- smoking flame, wet, and re-singed again, before anything is =applied. Now, the drying time vs. being able to push the wraps tighter, is =totally dependent on how hard the surface under the wraps is. With the =preferred finer threads, this becomes a much more difficult problem. =Perhaps "A", is about as small as it's possible to use ??? I recall Bob =N. saying he used an extended drying time, of 30 days or so it seems. =Bob, do you have problems with wrapping after this much time ? BTW, our tests with Varathane, indicate it is not nearly as resistant =to other solvents, etc., as urethanes like Glidden, or Min-Wax. =Varathane lifts, and comes off from contact with methane's. GMA Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 9:58 AMSubject: Re: Final Varnishing I use a piece of pvc pipe with caps on both ends and some silica = rods (or poles if you prefer) are stored in it during different =stages of work. I also built Wayne's finishing station pretty much right =out of the book. I installed an indoor outdoor thermometer to monitor =temps in the upper chamber and in the lower chamber. When I turn the =upper flouresant light on and leave it on my humidity gauge I can =maintain a 50% humidity in the upper part of the tube during the humid =part of the summer. When I dip the sections I keep the lower part of the =tube at 100 degrees F. and the upper part at 80 degrees F. I use pratt =and lamberts Varmor (R10) and the technician at P&L tells me thats OK. =The 100 degree temp in the varnish goes on in a very thin coat as a =result of the heat. averages about .001Wayne's tube is a little spendy =to make but it does everything he says. (I am able to produce dust free =coats of varnish EVERYTIME. I do not have an air cleaner as he does and =I"m sure that the plastic collects the dust by static electricity the =way he says it will. I withdraw the saections with a cheap clock motor I =got for $3 at an electronics junk store and pull it out at 4 inches per =minute. I let it hang in the tube until dust proof which is about 20 =minutes. I put the 10 foot pipe in the sump ppump hole in my basement =floor. Knowing what I know now it would have been worth breaking up a =hole in the floor for it.-----Original Message-----From: nobler Date: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 2:47 PMSubject: Re: Final Varnishing I'm wondering if there isn't a way to control the humidity, =without such an elaborate drying room ? I can understand the need for a =drying cabinet, to prevent all the dust in the air from messing up the =wet surface. In production, when it's rainy, etc., retarders are used, =along with flood lamps to both accelerate the drying, and to remove the =humidity in the first place. I'm aware that retarders slow the drying, =but this can be compensated for with the lamps, to some extent. The ="trick" is to find the temperature, with the lamps, that will not cause =the varnish to bubble, but allow it to dry without the effects of the =humidity ! On a slightly different subject, has anyone ever tried finishing =the cane, BEFORE the guides are wrapped ? You would then go back and =wrap the guides, fill and finish them in the same varnish. This would =give the translucent look to the wraps, yet allow a marvelous finish to =the cane. The obvious point is that this would eliminate having to sand =and polish around the wraps. GMA Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 10:20 AMSubject: Re: Final Varnishing Well, I guess sanding is not necessary everywhere, for everyone. =First you must understand that I live in a VERY humid climate. If the =humidity is under 75%, we consider it a DRY day here in the Arkansas =River Valley. This humidity will almost invariably cause flaws in my =final varnish, no matter how hard I try to prep the previous coat or how =clean and smooth my surface is. It is pretty much necessary for me to =final sand before polishing. All of us know how one little blemish will =show up on cane and, let me tell you, on days like today (just checked =TV10 and our humidity is 98% right now) it is impossible to get the kind =of clean smoothe coat of varnish I like. Wish I didn't have to get out =the 1200 and smoothe it out... and maybe someday I will be able to build =a varnishing room that is sealed and where a good dehumidifier will do =some good, but for now, the elbow grease is my only answer. If someone =else knows a better way, then PLEASE let me know, cause the only thing I=hate worse than brussel sprouts is wet sanding! Bob-----Original Message-----From: Landeens Date: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 9:30 AMSubject: Final Varnishing I was reading the discussion recently on sanding between =varnish coats and I have a question. Bob Nunley indicated that on his =final coat that he sands with 1200 grit and then applies polish. I lot =of rodmakers including myself don't sand the final coat but just apply =polish. What do most people do and is sanding recommended on the final =coat? ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01BF383E.695A0BE0 Why the "wet" phase? Jim ----- Original Message ----- nobler Makers List Serve Sent: Wednesday, November 24, = AMSubject: Re: Final =Varnishing This wrapping over varnish, and getting = under the wraps, sounds like a function of drying time/coat thickness. = of the various poly urethanes, says they get dry, and much more = faster. Such a finish on metal, with chip easier, than a regular = flexible. When wrapping, guides, I've always used my thumb nail to= windings tight, every few turns. The fuzzies are singed, and smoothed = applied. Now, the drying time vs. being able to push the wraps = totally dependent on how hard the surface under the wraps is. With the = preferred finer threads, this becomes a much more difficult problem. = "A", is about as small as it's possible to use ??? I recall Bob N. = used an extended drying time, of 30 days or so it seems. Bob, do you = problems with wrapping after this much time ? BTW, our tests with Varathane, indicate it is not nearly = resistant to other solvents, etc., as urethanes like Glidden, or = Varathane lifts, and comes off from contact with =methane's. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Rod Makers List Serve Sent: Wednesday, November 24,= AMSubject: Re: Final =Varnishing To control humidity: = I use a= pipe with caps on both ends and some silica jell in it as a = rods (or poles if you prefer) are stored in it = different stages of work. I also built Wayne's finishing station = right out of the book. I installed an indoor outdoor thermometer to = temps in the upper chamber and in the lower chamber. When I turn the = flouresant light on and leave it on my humidity gauge I can maintain = humidity in the upper part of the tube during the humid part of the = When I dip the sections I keep the lower part of the tube at 100 = and the upper part at 80 degrees F. I use pratt and lamberts Varmor = and the technician at P&L tells me thats OK. The 100 degree temp = varnish goes on in a very thin coat as a result of the heat. = .001Wayne's tube is a little spendy to make but it does everything = (I am able to produce dust free coats of varnish EVERYTIME. I do not = air cleaner as he does and I"m sure that the plastic collects the = static electricity the way he says it will. I withdraw the saections = cheap clock motor I got for $3 at an electronics junk store and pull = at 4 inches per minute. I let it hang in the tube until dust proof = about 20 minutes. I put the 10 foot pipe in the sump ppump hole in = basement floor. Knowing what I know now it would have been worth = a hole in the floor for it. -----Original = caneman@clnk.com = Serve <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Tuesday, November 23, 1999 2:47 PMSubject: Re: = VarnishingI'm wondering if there isn't a way to = the humidity, without such an elaborate drying room ? I can = need for a drying cabinet, to prevent all the dust in the air from = up the wet surface. In production, when it's rainy, etc., = used, along with flood lamps to both accelerate the drying, and to = the humidity in the first place. I'm aware that retarders slow the = but this can be compensated for with the lamps, to some extent. = "trick" is to find the temperature, with the lamps, that will not = the varnish to bubble, but allow it to dry without the effects of = humidity ! On a slightly different subject, has anyone ever = finishing the cane, BEFORE the guides are wrapped ? You would then = and wrap the guides, fill and finish them in the same varnish. = give the translucent look to the wraps, yet allow a marvelous = the cane. The obvious point is that this would eliminate having to = and polish around the wraps. GMA ----- Original Message ----- = Bob = Sent: Tuesday, November = 10:20 AMSubject: Re: Final =Varnishing Well, I guess sanding is not = almost invariably cause flaws in my final varnish, no matter how = try to prep the previous coat or how clean and smooth my surface = cane and, let me tell you, on days like today (just checked TV10 = humidity is 98% right now) it is impossible to get the kind of = 1200 and smoothe it out... and maybe someday I will be able to = varnishing room that is sealed and where a good dehumidifier = some good, but for now, the elbow grease is my only = someone else knows a better way, then PLEASE let me know, cause = thing I hate worse than brussel sprouts is wet =sanding! Bob rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Tuesday, November 23, 1999 9:30 AMSubject: = VarnishingI was reading the discussion recently on = between varnish coats and I have a question. Bob Nunley = on his final coat that he sands with 1200 grit and then = polish. I lot of rodmakers including myself don't sand the = =coat? ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01BF383E.695A0BE0-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Nov 26 20:12:07 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 26 Nov 1999 20:12:12 -0600 ,"Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Final Varnishing boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0063_01BF384A.835CDDE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01BF384A.835CDDE0 Even after smoothing the wraps, a light wetting, even if it's only =saliva, will raise a slight knap again. It's sort of like wetting wood, =and sanding after it dries, with an even finer grit. After the wraps dry, another light singe, leaves less roughness to =smooth after the first coat of varnish, or color preserver is dry. GMA Sent: Friday, November 26, 1999 6:45 PMSubject: Re: Final Varnishing Why the "wet" phase? Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 8:19 AMSubject: Re: Final Varnishing This wrapping over varnish, and getting grooves under the wraps, =sounds like a function of drying time/coat thickness. My u\se of the =various poly urethanes, says they get dry, and much more brittle, =faster. Such a finish on metal, with chip easier, than a regular enamel, =or varnish. There are some clear epoxy enamels that are both tough, and =flexible. When wrapping, guides, I've always used my thumb nail to push the =windings tight, every few turns. The fuzzies are singed, and smoothed =with a non- smoking flame, wet, and re-singed again, before anything is =applied. Now, the drying time vs. being able to push the wraps tighter, is =totally dependent on how hard the surface under the wraps is. With the =preferred finer threads, this becomes a much more difficult problem. =Perhaps "A", is about as small as it's possible to use ??? I recall Bob =N. saying he used an extended drying time, of 30 days or so it seems. =Bob, do you have problems with wrapping after this much time ? BTW, our tests with Varathane, indicate it is not nearly as =resistant to other solvents, etc., as urethanes like Glidden, or =Min-Wax. Varathane lifts, and comes off from contact with methane's. GMA Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 9:58 AMSubject: Re: Final Varnishing I use a piece of pvc pipe with caps on both ends and some silica = rods (or poles if you prefer) are stored in it during different =stages of work. I also built Wayne's finishing station pretty much right =out of the book. I installed an indoor outdoor thermometer to monitor =temps in the upper chamber and in the lower chamber. When I turn the =upper flouresant light on and leave it on my humidity gauge I can =maintain a 50% humidity in the upper part of the tube during the humid =part of the summer. When I dip the sections I keep the lower part of the =tube at 100 degrees F. and the upper part at 80 degrees F. I use pratt =and lamberts Varmor (R10) and the technician at P&L tells me thats OK. =The 100 degree temp in the varnish goes on in a very thin coat as a =result of the heat. averages about .001Wayne's tube is a little spendy =to make but it does everything he says. (I am able to produce dust free =coats of varnish EVERYTIME. I do not have an air cleaner as he does and =I"m sure that the plastic collects the dust by static electricity the =way he says it will. I withdraw the saections with a cheap clock motor I =got for $3 at an electronics junk store and pull it out at 4 inches per =minute. I let it hang in the tube until dust proof which is about 20 =minutes. I put the 10 foot pipe in the sump ppump hole in my basement =floor. Knowing what I know now it would have been worth breaking up a =hole in the floor for it.-----Original Message-----From: nobler Date: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 2:47 PMSubject: Re: Final Varnishing I'm wondering if there isn't a way to control the humidity, =without such an elaborate drying room ? I can understand the need for a =drying cabinet, to prevent all the dust in the air from messing up the =wet surface. In production, when it's rainy, etc., retarders are used, =along with flood lamps to both accelerate the drying, and to remove the =humidity in the first place. I'm aware that retarders slow the drying, =but this can be compensated for with the lamps, to some extent. The ="trick" is to find the temperature, with the lamps, that will not cause =the varnish to bubble, but allow it to dry without the effects of the =humidity ! On a slightly different subject, has anyone ever tried finishing =the cane, BEFORE the guides are wrapped ? You would then go back and =wrap the guides, fill and finish them in the same varnish. This would =give the translucent look to the wraps, yet allow a marvelous finish to =the cane. The obvious point is that this would eliminate having to sand =and polish around the wraps. GMA Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 10:20 AMSubject: Re: Final Varnishing Well, I guess sanding is not necessary everywhere, for =everyone. First you must understand that I live in a VERY humid =climate. If the humidity is under 75%, we consider it a DRY day here in =the Arkansas River Valley. This humidity will almost invariably cause =flaws in my final varnish, no matter how hard I try to prep the previous =coat or how clean and smooth my surface is. It is pretty much necessary = blemish will show up on cane and, let me tell you, on days like today =(just checked TV10 and our humidity is 98% right now) it is impossible =to get the kind of clean smoothe coat of varnish I like. Wish I didn't =have to get out the 1200 and smoothe it out... and maybe someday I will =be able to build a varnishing room that is sealed and where a good =dehumidifier will do some good, but for now, the elbow grease is my only=answer. If someone else knows a better way, then PLEASE let me know, =cause the only thing I hate worse than brussel sprouts is wet sanding! Bob-----Original Message-----From: Landeens Date: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 9:30 AMSubject: Final Varnishing I was reading the discussion recently on sanding between =varnish coats and I have a question. Bob Nunley indicated that on his =final coat that he sands with 1200 grit and then applies polish. I lot =of rodmakers including myself don't sand the final coat but just apply =polish. What do most people do and is sanding recommended on the final =coat? ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01BF384A.835CDDE0 Even after smoothing the wraps, a light = if it's only saliva, will raise a slight knap again. It's sort of like = wood, and sanding after it dries, with an even finer =grit. After the wraps dry, another light singe, leaves less = dry. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Sallyann Freeman Rod Makers List Serve Sent: Friday, November 26, 1999= PMSubject: Re: Final =Varnishing Why the "wet" phase? Jim ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, November 24,= AMSubject: Re: Final =Varnishing This wrapping over varnish, and getting= under the wraps, sounds like a function of drying time/coat = u\se of the various poly urethanes, says they get dry, and much more = brittle, faster. Such a finish on metal, with chip easier, than a = enamel, or varnish. There are some clear epoxy enamels that are both = and flexible. When wrapping, guides, I've always used my thumb nail = the windings tight, every few turns. The fuzzies are singed, and = with a non-smoking flame, wet, and re-singed again, before anything = applied. Now, the drying time vs. being able to push the wraps = is totally dependent on how hard the surface under the wraps is. = preferred finer threads, this becomes a much more difficult problem. = "A", is about as small as it's possible to use ??? I recall Bob N. = used an extended drying time, of 30 days or so it seems. Bob, do you = problems with wrapping after this much time ? BTW, our tests with Varathane, indicate it is not = resistant to other solvents, etc., as urethanes like Glidden, or = Varathane lifts, and comes off from contact with =methane's. GMA ----- Original Message ----- = ; Rod Makers List Serve = Sent: Wednesday, November = 9:58 AMSubject: Re: Final =Varnishing To control humidity: = I usea = pipe with caps on both ends and some silica jell in it as a = rods (or poles if you prefer) are stored in it = different stages of work. I also built Wayne's finishing station = much right out of the book. I installed an indoor outdoor = monitor temps in the upper chamber and in the lower chamber. When = the upper flouresant light on and leave it on my humidity gauge I = maintain a 50% humidity in the upper part of the tube during the = part of the summer. When I dip the sections I keep the lower part = tube at 100 degrees F. and the upper part at 80 degrees F. I use = lamberts Varmor (R10) and the technician at P&L tells me thats = 100 degree temp in the varnish goes on in a very thin coat as a = the heat. averages about .001Wayne's tube is a little spendy to = it does everything he says. (I am able to produce dust free coats = varnish EVERYTIME. I do not have an air cleaner as he does and I"m = that the plastic collects the dust by static electricity the way = it will. I withdraw the saections with a cheap clock motor I got = an electronics junk store and pull it out at 4 inches per minute. = hang in the tube until dust proof which is about 20 minutes. I put = foot pipe in the sump ppump hole in my basement floor. Knowing = it. caneman@clnk.com = = Serve <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Tuesday, November 23, 1999 2:47 PMSubject: Re: = VarnishingI'm wondering if there isn't a way = the humidity, without such an elaborate drying room ? I can = the need for a drying cabinet, to prevent all the dust in the = messing up the wet surface. In production, when it's rainy, = retarders are used, along with flood lamps to both accelerate = drying, and to remove the humidity in the first place. I'm aware = retarders slow the drying, but this can be compensated for with = lamps, to some extent. The "trick" is to find the temperature, = lamps, that will not cause the varnish to bubble, but allow it = without the effects of the humidity ! On a slightly different subject, has anyone ever = finishing the cane, BEFORE the guides are wrapped ? You would = back and wrap the guides, fill and finish them in the same = would give the translucent look to the wraps, yet allow a = finish to the cane. The obvious point is that this would = having to sand and polish around the wraps. GMA ----- Original Message ----- = Nunley Sent: Tuesday, November = 10:20 AM Varnishing Well, I guess sanding is = humidity will almost invariably cause flaws in my final = matter how hard I try to prep the previous coat or how clean = blemish will show up on cane and, let me tell you, on days = (just checked TV10 and our humidity is 98% right now) it is = didn't have to get out the 1200 and smoothe it out... and = someday I will be able to build a varnishing room that is = where a good dehumidifier will do some good, but for now, the = then PLEASE let me know, cause the only thing I hate worse = brussel sprouts is wet sanding! Bob rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Tuesday, November 23, 1999 9:30 AMSubject: = VarnishingI was reading the discussion recently on = between varnish coats and I have a question. Bob Nunley = that on his final coat that he sands with 1200 grit and then = polish. I lot of rodmakers including myself don't sand the = coat but just apply polish. What do most people do and is = =coat? ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01BF384A.835CDDE0-- from brookside.rod@juno.com Fri Nov 26 20:25:56 1999 21:25:42 EST Subject: Re: Mills "Standard" fly rod Question Hello Reed: Hope you've been well. The Mills branded rods including the Standards were all built by Leonard.They were marketed in the great Mills sporting goods stores along sidethe Leonard branded rods at a somewhat lower cost. In my view therewerefew differences between the rods except for the obvious hardware andfittings changes. The cane could sometimes be as good as any Leonard buttended to be rather a bit lessor. The rods fish well and they ought to. Built as they were by the same folks who built the Leonards. Take care; Gary Dabrowski On Fri, 26 Nov 1999 15:27:16 -0500 Reed Curry writes:All,I have often seen the Mills "Standard" rods listed as Leonard-Mills"Standard" and assumed that this was a low-grade Leonard that was markedunder Mills own name. However, I've seen a number of these rods now andthey seem to be of fine workmanship (3x3 node spacing, no water marks,etc.)Does anyone know who made these rods? Did Mills have its ownproduction people in Highland Mills before it brought down Leonard?Some differences:The ferrules have different welting.The ferrules are not serrated, but annealed and peaned (nicely).The last 3 snakes on each original tip are reverse twist, all othersare American.\Thanks.Best regards,Reed . ___________________________________________________________________Get the Internet just the way you want it.Free software, free e- mail, and free Internet access for a month!Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. from morten@flash.net Fri Nov 26 21:13:25 1999 Subject: Re: 7'6" 3 piece 5wt. David,I have made several of the great Paul Young tapers, and I feel theMartha Marie is a very good taper, but it is very powerful, more like a#6 rod. (I got the taper from a friend in Norway)The Perfectionist 7'6"#4/5 I built is a #5 rod in my opinion and has anice crisp progressive action, I would think this is a good candidate The Driggs River 7'2"#4/5 is also a great rod but has a more paraboliccharacter. It casts a WF#5 both short and far.Both the Perfectionist and The Driggs River are good candidates for aHexrod redo to 3-pc. Of cource the Driggs has to be streched 4".If you like parabolics go for the Driggs, for a crisper feel make theperfectionist.Morten Lovstad -- 3119 Georgia Pine Dr.Spring, TX 77373(281) 353 5725http://www.flash.net/~morten from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Nov 26 21:53:26 1999 Subject: Alternate Bamboo I sitting here looking at a huge Moso culm. It is 10 ft. long and4 1/2 inches in diameter. Wall thickness is 1/2 inch. Power fibers,well, power fibers are a problem. Depending on how you want todefine power fibers depends on how good you would rate them. I would say the power fibers are 3/16 of an inch thick. Others Ithink would say they are 1/16 to 1/8. In any case the outside1/16th has as small and densely packed power fibers as I'veever seen. More so than any of the Tonkin that I own. But there are fibers all the way through the "pith". I put the word pith in quotes because it's not soft like I'm used to seeing. The "pith"is hard, like wood. Node spacing could be a problem. Atthe base they are 9 inches apart, and they go to 12 inches apart at the top. Splitting is a chore because it's so thick. It really takes some muscle, but I have managed to get 16 strips out of a quarter,so I might get 64 strips from this culm. It's interesting that splitsgo straight, with less tendency to wander. The color is straw yellow, an except for the differences in "pith"and the sheer size it works and planes like Tonkin. Stay tuned for what a rod made from this stuff is like. With myMorgan Handmill it doesn't take long to plane out 12 strips. Darryl Hayashida from rcurry@ttlc.net Fri Nov 26 22:03:27 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A92EFCC10074; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 23:08:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Mills "Standard" fly rod Question Darryl,The only marking is two lines on the butt cap:STANDARDMills&Son, Makers, N.Y. Best regards,Reed DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: Sorry I can't give any information on this rod, but Iwould like to add a qustion of my own. Is there asticker or writing on the rod itself, or is the onlyplace the Leonard-Mills logo appears is on the end cap?Darryl Hayashida All,I have often seen the Mills "Standard" rods listed as Leonard- Mills"Standard" and assumed that this was a low-grade Leonard that wasmarkedunder Mills own name. However, I've seen a number of these rods nowandthey seem to be of fine workmanship (3x3 node spacing, no watermarks,etc.)Does anyone know who made these rods? Did Mills have its ownproduction people in Highland Mills before it brought down Leonard?Some differences:The ferrules have different welting.The ferrules are not serrated, but annealed and peaned (nicely).The last 3 snakes on each original tip are reverse twist, all othersare American.\Thanks.Best regards,Reed from rcurry@ttlc.net Fri Nov 26 22:10:13 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id AAC62DA4013E; Fri, 26 Nov 1999 23:15:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Mills "Standard" fly rod Question Gary,That is what I had always taken as rote, but I can find no evidence tocorroborate it. All the evidence points the other way. The use ofunserratedferrules means that Leonard would have had to train his people to mounttwodifferent type of ferrules, when it would have been easier to just addsawcuts to these ferrules. And why maintain two different lines of weltsforthe females?I understood Hiram (and later Reuben) understood the value ofproductionefficiencies, e.g., common techniques and materials. If this is a Leonard,then he was not very commercially astute.Best regards,Reed brookside.rod@juno.com wrote: Hello Reed: Hope you've been well. The Mills branded rods including the Standards were all built by Leonard.They were marketed in the great Mills sporting goods stores along sidethe Leonard branded rods at a somewhat lower cost. In my view therewerefew differences between the rods except for the obvious hardware andfittings changes. The cane could sometimes be as good as any Leonardbuttended to be rather a bit lessor. The rods fish well and they ought to.Built as they were by the same folks who built the Leonards. Take care; Gary Dabrowski On Fri, 26 Nov 1999 15:27:16 -0500 Reed Curry writes:All,I have often seen the Mills "Standard" rods listed asLeonard-Mills"Standard" and assumed that this was a low-grade Leonard that wasmarkedunder Mills own name. However, I've seen a number of these rods nowandthey seem to be of fine workmanship (3x3 node spacing, no watermarks,etc.)Does anyone know who made these rods? Did Mills have its ownproduction people in Highland Mills before it brought down Leonard?Some differences:The ferrules have different welting.The ferrules are not serrated, but annealed and peaned (nicely).The last 3 snakes on each original tip are reverse twist, allothersare American.\Thanks.Best regards,Reed . ___________________________________________________________________Get the Internet just the way you want it.Free software, free e- mail, and free Internet access for a month!Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. from DNHayashida@aol.com Sat Nov 27 00:16:13 1999 Subject: Re: Mills "Standard" fly rod Question Darryl,The only marking is two lines on the butt cap:STANDARDMills&Son, Makers, N.Y. Interesting, because I had an acquaintance who had a rod marked thesame way, and there were some so-called experts who doubted therod was an authentic Leonard. I don't know historic rods - never claimedI did - and I couldn't even begin to guess if it was a real Leonard or not.The guy wanted me to convert it into a spinning rod. Of course, I declined. Darryl from rsgould@cmc.net Sat Nov 27 12:10:59 1999 Subject: Re: Varmor Hi Ralph,I've used P&L R-10 for many years now and can tell you that R-10 is whatyouwnt. It is a gloss polyurethane, R-11 is for the satin finish. To find outthe specifics of R-7 call 1-800-289-7728.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Varmor Hi, all - Hope everyone had a great turkey day. I'm looking for somehelp on the Varmor numbers if anyone is familiar with P&L numbering.After tracking down an "almost local" source for Varmor, I drove downand picked up a quart last week. When I did, I noticed that the can waslabelled R7, not R10. The lady at the store said it was no big deal andthat they use all kinds of different numbers for the same stuff (orsomething to that effect). I don't expect anyone would be at P&L todayand I'd like to try the stuff out this weekend, but if it's the wrongstuff, I'd rather return it for "R10". So, before I open this fairlyexpensive little quart of liquid gold, does anyone knows if thisdifference in numbers is significant? Thanks for your help - mac from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sat Nov 27 12:15:02 1999 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP +0100 Subject: Slow List ? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF3907.C7311460" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF3907.C7311460 Are we having a slow day, or am I unsub=B4ed? regards,'Carsten ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF3907.C7311460 Are we having a slow day, or am unsub´ed? regards,'Carsten ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF3907.C7311460-- from caneman@clnk.com Sat Nov 27 12:53:17 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Sat, 27 Nov 1999 07:50:33 -0600 Subject: Wrap Colors boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0153_01BF38AB.D61AB1E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0153_01BF38AB.D61AB1E0 Just a point of curiosity, Do you use different colors of wraps on your =rods according to customers request? Personally, I wrap all of my =flamed rods with red and all of my natural rods with medium green. I =prefer this look on the rods, and try not to deviate from those colors. =I will on occasion, but try to get my customers to stick with those two =colors. In other words, I will wrap a blonde rod with red or a flamed =with green on request, but try to discourage (with pricing) them from =trying to get me to wrap with colors that are not in my range of =preference. Am I being too obstinate, or do others have their =particular colors that they use and like to stick to? Bob R.L. "Bob" Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Bamboo Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ------=_NextPart_000_0153_01BF38AB.D61AB1E0 Just a point of curiosity, Do you use different colors of wraps on = occasion, but try to get my customers to stick with those two = other words, I will wrap a blonde rod with red or a flamed with green on = request, but try to discourage (with pricing) them from trying to get me = obstinate, or do others have their particular colors that they use and = stick to? Bob Rodsht=tp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ------=_NextPart_000_0153_01BF38AB.D61AB1E0-- from EESweet@aol.com Sat Nov 27 13:10:03 1999 Subject: New Zealand Hi All, I just returned from New Zealand and thought I'd share some of myexperiences with you. Let me start by saying that the fish there, well, they're BIG! All the stories you've heard are true. My friends and I only caught a couple that were in the 2lb. range, the rest were 4lbs. or better with several 5lb'ers, and two that were 7+. What a treat for an angler whose best fish till then had been a 21" rainbow. (Notice the difference in how fish are measured there and here!) We fished South Island which is mainly brown trout, and unlike here, these fish love to jump. What a thrill to see a 5lb. brown clear the water before racing off downstream stripping off linewith you stumbling along behind it. Also, while we fished both lakes andstreams, most of our fishing was in streams. Our best day came on a small river no more than 40' across at it's widest points, with overhanging trees, root clumps, etc. The three of us hooked about a dozen fish, landing 7 of them. Taking big fish from such small water with so many obstacles wasincredible. New Zealand itself is a beautiful country with such a diversity of terrain that we were always commenting on how someplace reminded us of otherplaces. At times the northern coast of California, or on the greyer days with low clouds and a light rain obscuring the hilltops, surrounded by sheep, we'd have sworn it was a scene from somewhere in Scotland. At least it diduntil we reached the west slope of the mountains, when the somewhat terraced looking native trees presented us with scenery we'd never run acrossbefore. One of the highlights of the trip was stopping by to say hi to Ian Kearney and his family. They graciously offered some road weary travellers alevel of hospitality that is far to rare these days. That in addition to giving us a chance to cast several of his rods. I only hope that someday I'll be building them as well as that. And List, if you haven't built a Dickerson#7 Guide Special yet, you don't know what you're missing. I cast Ian's and literally fell in love! This is a rod I will build before long, what great taper. Well, I guess I've taken enough of your time everyone. The message, incase you haven't picked it up yet is that you owe it to yourself to spendsome time in NZ. I love the places I fish in CA, but I'll never forget watching a 6lb. brown take my dry fly in a small meadow stream. And yes, I landedthat one . Eric from KPres375@aol.com Sat Nov 27 13:22:59 1999 Subject: Re: Wrap Colors In a message dated 11/27/99 6:57:47 PM, caneman@clnk.com writes: Bob (and all others)... I "go with the flow" and do what the customer wants. I have twowooden dowels that I wrapped bands of several colors of silk and nylon on. On one the threads are treated with color preserver and on the other they are not. Now I need to make a few more (but that's another "round-to-it") on different color blanks... Never seems to end! What I've found though is that many people are quite happy to leave the color selection to me basedon the overall appearance of the rod - the guides (chrome, black, gold) and the reel seat (metal, graphite, wood inserts) and make the rod "cometogether" with the guide windings. Ken from gholland@uswest.net Sat Nov 27 13:25:23 1999 (207.225.29.209) Subject: Re: Slow List ? Your message is coming through...it's slow.Greg HollandCarsten Jørgensen wrote: we from mrj@aa.net Sat Nov 27 14:55:23 1999 Sat, 27 Nov 1999 12:55:15 -0800 Subject: Re: Wrap Colors boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002D_01BF38D6.7ACD60A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01BF38D6.7ACD60A0 Well unless you consider that you are making "Works of Art", I =personally would do what the customer wanted. Now if it was say in =really bad taste (my definition of bad taste too!) I just might be =inclined not to sign it!If I had a "signature" color (which I don't) again I would probably go = Martin Jensen Sent: Saturday, November 27, 1999 5:48 AMSubject: Wrap Colors Just a point of curiosity, Do you use different colors of wraps on =your rods according to customers request? Personally, I wrap all of my =flamed rods with red and all of my natural rods with medium green. I =prefer this look on the rods, and try not to deviate from those colors. =I will on occasion, but try to get my customers to stick with those two =colors. In other words, I will wrap a blonde rod with red or a flamed =with green on request, but try to discourage (with pricing) them from =trying to get me to wrap with colors that are not in my range of =preference. Am I being too obstinate, or do others have their =particular colors that they use and like to stick to? Bob R.L. "Bob" Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Bamboo Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01BF38D6.7ACD60A0 Well unless you consider that you are = of Art", I personally would do what the customer wanted. Now if it was = really bad taste (my definition of bad taste too!) I just might be = to sign it!If I had a "signature" color (which I = I would probably go with the customer but just not sign the rod. = Martin Jensen ----- Original Message ----- Bob =Nunley Makers List Serve Sent: Saturday, November 27, = AMSubject: Wrap Colors Just a point of curiosity, Do you use different colors of wraps = on occasion, but try to get my customers to stick with those two = In other words, I will wrap a blonde rod with red or a flamed with = request, but try to discourage (with pricing) them from trying to get = obstinate, or do others have their particular colors that they use and = stick to? Bob Rodsht=tp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01BF38D6.7ACD60A0-- from teekay35@interlynx.net Sat Nov 27 15:29:51 1999 Subject: Re: Wrap Colors I give the customer whatever they want. The shop (Grindstone Anglers,waterdown, Ca.) that handles my rods has a color stick with sample wraps they exhibit! ---------- Subject: Wrap Colors Just a point of curiosity, Do you use different colors of wraps on yourrods according to customers request? Personally, I wrap all of my flamedrods with red and all of my natural rods with medium green. I prefer thislook on the rods, and try not to deviate from those colors. I will onoccasion, but try to get my customers to stick with those two colors. Inother words, I will wrap a blonde rod with red or a flamed with green onrequest, but try to discourage (with pricing) them from trying to get me towrap with colors that are not in my range of preference. Am I being tooobstinate, or do others have their particular colors that they use and liketo stick to? Bob R.L. "Bob" Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Bamboo Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm from rsgould@cmc.net Sat Nov 27 17:07:51 1999 Subject: Re: Wrap Colors Hi To All,I've found that what works best for me is to let the customer choose andgetsome ownership in the final product that way. It's important to have a"sample stick" all made up with the various selections on it so there's nosurprise. Some people are very selective and others let me choose.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Wrap Colors In a message dated 11/27/99 6:57:47 PM, caneman@clnk.com writes: rods according to customers request? Personally, I wrap all of myflamedrods with red and all of my natural rods with medium green. I preferthislook on the rods, and try not to deviate from those colors. I will onoccasion, but try to get my customers to stick with those two colors. Inother words, I will wrap a blonde rod with red or a flamed with green onrequest, but try to discourage (with pricing) them from trying to get metowrap with colors that are not in my range of preference. Am I being tooobstinate, or do others have their particular colors that they use andliketo stick to? >> Bob (and all others)... I "go with the flow" and do what the customer wants. I have twowoodendowels that I wrapped bands of several colors of silk and nylon on. Ononethe threads are treated with color preserver and on the other they arenot.Now I need to make a few more (but that's another "round-to-it") ondifferent color blanks... Never seems to end! What I've found though isthat many people are quite happy to leave the color selection to mebasedonthe overall appearance of the rod - the guides (chrome, black, gold) andthereel seat (metal, graphite, wood inserts) and make the rod "cometogether"with the guide windings. Ken from tonkin@xtn.net Sat Nov 27 17:19:43 1999 Sat, 27 Nov 1999 18:19:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Varmor Hi Ray & Ralph, What do you use to thin the varnish? What ratio do you use when thinningit? Ray Gould wrote: Hi Ralph,I've used P&L R-10 for many years now and can tell you that R-10 iswhat you> wnt. It is a gloss polyurethane, R-11 is for the satin finish. Tofind outthe specifics of R-7 call 1-800-289-7728.Ray----- Original Message -----From: Ralph MacKenzie Sent: Friday, November 26, 1999 4:46 AMSubject: Varmor Hi, all - Hope everyone had a great turkey day. I'm looking for somehelp on the Varmor numbers if anyone is familiar with P&L numbering.After tracking down an "almost local" source for Varmor, I drove downand picked up a quart last week. When I did, I noticed that the can waslabelled R7, not R10. The lady at the store said it was no big deal andthat they use all kinds of different numbers for the same stuff (orsomething to that effect). I don't expect anyone would be at P&L todayand I'd like to try the stuff out this weekend, but if it's the wrongstuff, I'd rather return it for "R10". So, before I open this fairlyexpensive little quart of liquid gold, does anyone knows if thisdifference in numbers is significant? Thanks for your help - mac from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Sat Nov 27 18:31:43 1999 Subject: Re: New Zealand Eric,I wish I would have been there! from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Nov 27 20:26:50 1999 Subject: Re: Final Varnishing. Observations (?) Dennis,I find that 3 coats of poly on the wraps with a judicious use of the razor in between does a nice job using Gudebrod silk.Regards,Hank. from landeens@home.com Sat Nov 27 20:53:06 1999 with SMTP 0800 Subject: Epoxy Remover boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0029_01BF3908.59F4CBC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BF3908.59F4CBC0 I stayed up till 1:00 working on a 2pc rod a couple of days ago and =discovered in the morning that I had epoxied the male and female =ferrules on the wrong blanks. I talked to a local jeweler and he gave me =a can of solvent called ATTACK. It is specifically made for dissolving =epoxy and polyester resins without hurting wood or metal. I put both =ends of the blank in the stuff and in 5 minutes both ferrules pulled =right off just using my hand. As far as I can tell there was no damage =to the blank. I had used Devcon 2 Ton epoxy. The can gives the following =address to buy it. Hughes Associates, Wayzata, MN 55391. I also used it =to remove a seat from a wooden insert and it worked great. Just thought = ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BF3908.59F4CBC0 I stayed up till 1:00 working on a 2pc rod a couple = ago and discovered in the morning that I had epoxied the male and female = ferrules on the wrong blanks. I talked to a local jeweler and he gave me = polyester resins without hurting wood or metal. I put both ends of the = the stuff and in 5 minutes both ferrules pulled right off just using my = epoxy. The can gives the following address to buy it. Hughes Associates, = Wayzata, MN 55391. I also used it to remove a seat from a wooden insert = ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BF3908.59F4CBC0-- from listreader@codemarine.com Sat Nov 27 22:48:27 1999 codemarine.209.170.128.193 with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet MailService Version5.5.2448.0) Subject: Rodmakers in the Raleigh NC area? I'm looking for a benevolent rodmaker in the Raleigh North Carolina areawho might bewilling to let me use his/her heat oven and/or binder in exchange for Webdevelopment orsomething like that. (Software development is my long- time profession,rod building is abrand new hobby.) Alternatively, if there are any other Raleigh-areanewbies on this listwho would like to do a tool swap (I have planing forms and other stuff, butno heat ovenor binder), please let me know. Thanks, Steve Zimmermansteve@codemarine.com from EM11EM22@aol.com Sun Nov 28 03:14:41 1999 Subject: Bishop Gathering 99 Photos Guys:Here are the photos from that weekend, use this url: http://members.aol.com/fotogiii/bishop9.jpgHope you like them!!!!!!!Regards,Ed Miller from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Nov 28 06:42:07 1999 Sun, 28 Nov 1999 04:42:02 -0800 Subject: Re: Bishop Gathering 99 Photos Looks like a great time, Ed. Thanks for sharing the photos with us. Harry EM11EM22@aol.com wrote: Guys:Here are the photos from that weekend, use this url:http://members.aol.com/fotogiii/bishop9.jpgHope you like them!!!!!!!Regards,Ed Miller from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Nov 28 07:20:32 1999 Subject: Re: Wrap Colors I guess when the list is slow a little self promotion is acceptable.Terry KPres375@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 11/27/99 6:57:47 PM, caneman@clnk.com writes: rods according to customers request? Personally, I wrap all of myflamedrods with red and all of my natural rods with medium green. I preferthislook on the rods, and try not to deviate from those colors. I will onoccasion, but try to get my customers to stick with those two colors. Inother words, I will wrap a blonde rod with red or a flamed with green onrequest, but try to discourage (with pricing) them from trying to get metowrap with colors that are not in my range of preference. Am I being tooobstinate, or do others have their particular colors that they use and liketo stick to? >> Bob (and all others)... I "go with the flow" and do what the customer wants. I have twowoodendowels that I wrapped bands of several colors of silk and nylon on. Ononethe threads are treated with color preserver and on the other they arenot.Now I need to make a few more (but that's another "round-to-it") ondifferent color blanks... Never seems to end! What I've found though isthat many people are quite happy to leave the color selection to mebased onthe overall appearance of the rod - the guides (chrome, black, gold) andthereel seat (metal, graphite, wood inserts) and make the rod "cometogether"with the guide windings. Ken from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Nov 28 07:25:02 1999 Subject: Re: Slow List ? 6B03DB85E414A032F924E78E" --------------6B03DB85E414A032F924E78E Turkey with Salmonella would slow things down. Carsten Jorgensen wrote: Are we having a slow day, or am I unsub'ed? regards,'Carsten --------------6B03DB85E414A032F924E78E Carsten Jørgensen wrote: --------------6B03DB85E414A032F924E78E-- from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Nov 28 10:34:38 1999 "landeens@home.com" boundary="_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862608=_=_=_"Subject: Re: Epoxy Remover --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862608=_=_=_ To All I did a quick search of the Internet and here some info that may be ofinterest.The stuff is widely distributedin the jewelry business to dissolve epoxy - may be just the trick to getoff an errantferrule - may have a double wammy if you used epoxy to glue the strips together. As for safety I found the following bit of info: Epoxies do also have one other distinct advantage, in that they can bedisassembled with relative ease. Use "Attack"solvent, also made by Hughes. Watch out for the fumes though- it'svolatile stuff, andextremely toxic. FDJ forSilver solder before: http://www.fdjtool.com/adhesive.htm to FDJ Tool http://www.omgems.com/jewel/adhesives/hughes_associates_adhesives.htm to OlympicMountain Gems Inc page Best address I could find is: Hughes AssociatesVictoria, MN 55386free catalogue Regards Chris --Original Message Text--- I stayed up till 1:00 working on a 2pc rod a couple of days ago anddiscovered in themorning that I had epoxied the male and female ferrules on the wrong blanks. I talked to a local jeweler and hegave me a can ofsolvent called ATTACK. It is specifically made for dissolving epoxy and polyester resins withouthurting wood ormetal. I put both ends of the blank in the stuff and in 5 minutes both ferrules pulled right off just using my hand.As far as I cantell there was no damage to the blank. I had used Devcon 2 Ton epoxy. The can gives the following address to buy it.HughesAssociates, Wayzata, MN 55391. I also used it to remove a seat from a wooden insert and it worked great.Just thought someof you might want to know. --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862608=_=_=_ To All I did a quick search of the Internet and here some info that may be ofinterest. Thestuff is widely distributedin the jewelry business to dissolve epoxy - may be just the trick to getoff an errantferrule - may have a double wammy if you used epoxy to glue the strips together. As for safety I found the following bit of info: Epoxies do also have one other distinct advantage, in that they can bedisassembledwith relative ease. Use "Attack"solvent, also made by Hughes. Watch out for the fumes though- it'svolatile stuff, andextremely toxic. FDJ for Silversolder before: http://www.fdjtool.com/adhesive.htm to FDJ Tool http://www.omgems.com/jewel/adhesives/hughes_associates_adhesives.htm to OlympicMountain Gems Inc page Best address I could find is: Hughes AssociatesVictoria, MN 55386free catalogue Regards Chris --Original Message Text---From: LandeensDate: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 18:51:02 - 0800 I stayed up till 1:00 working on a 2pc rod acouple of daysago and discovered in the morning that I had epoxied the male and femaleferrules on thewrong blanks. I talked to a local jeweler and he gave me a can of solventcalled ATTACK.It is specifically made for dissolving epoxy and polyester resins withouthurting wood ormetal. I put both ends of the blank in the stuff and in 5 minutes bothferrules pulledright off just using my hand. As far as I can tell there was no damage tothe blank. Ihad used Devcon 2 Ton epoxy. The can gives the following address to buy it.HughesAssociates, Wayzata, MN 55391. I also used it to remove a seat from awooden insert andit worked great. Just thought some of you might want to know. --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862608=_=_=_-- from knflyrod@home.com Sun Nov 28 13:07:05 1999 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP Sun, 28 Nov 1999 11:07:02 -0800 Subject: Re: travel rod Dave and Christian, Here is the taper for the Phillipson Smuggler. Themeasurements do NOT have the deduction for varnish. The condition oftherod is excellent with the varnish at full thickness.1" .0865.25 .102 Due to guide10. .12215 .13620 .15825 .17930 .18435 .19340 .21043.75 .220 due to ferrule50 .23855 .25560 .27165 .28671 .305 due to ferrule75 .297 ( I rechecked this)80 .33985 Grip The guide pattern is from top of tip top.5.7512.2519.12526.7534.7544.2548.559.125 Stripper IMHO this rod casts a 6 wgt at medium to long distance very nicely. Notthat great when in close. Minus 25 feet. Maybe would be better with a 7wgt for in close. I hope this helps. Ron Huff----- Original Message ----- Subject: travel rod List: Would anyone have a taper for a 4 piece, 5 wt. 8' or 8'6" rod, ordirect me to where I could find one? Planning a trip to New Zealand nextspring, and hope to get in a couple of days of the evidently great fishing!Thanks in advance. Dave La Touche from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Sun Nov 28 13:45:00 1999 LAA28624 (5.5.2448.0) does anybody have a source for A K Best fly tying vices? Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from jczimny@dol.net Sun Nov 28 14:34:47 1999 Subject: Re: The last thing that I heard of the company is that they are out ofbusiness. However, I don't know if any of the products that they soldare still available.John Z "Coffey, Patrick W" wrote: does anybody have a source for A K Best fly tying vices? Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from DNHayashida@aol.com Sun Nov 28 14:42:09 1999 Subject: Break Testing the Moso The Moso bamboo doesn't match the paintbrush appearanceof the fibers that Tonkin has when it breaks. I attribute that tothe pith of the Moso being harder than the pith of Tonkin. Itdoes take a lot more effort to break a strip of Moso, in factI bent a heat treated 1/4 inch wide strip all the way aroundin an 8 inch diameter hoop before it broke. Moso does have a ragged, jagged apppearance at the break, just not as muchas Tonkin does.Darryl from teekay35@interlynx.net Sun Nov 28 15:18:48 1999 Subject: Re: Wrap Colors Every now and then I agree with you,Terry. Lately there seems to be anexcess of self promotion under the pretext of "what do you think"questions. ----------From: TERENCE ACKLAND Cc: caneman@clnk.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Wrap ColorsDate: Sunday, November 28, 1999 8:24 AM I guess when the list is slow a little self promotion is acceptable.Terry KPres375@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 11/27/99 6:57:47 PM, caneman@clnk.com writes: rods according to customers request? Personally, I wrap all of myflamedrods with red and all of my natural rods with medium green. I preferthislook on the rods, and try not to deviate from those colors. I will onoccasion, but try to get my customers to stick with those two colors. Inother words, I will wrap a blonde rod with red or a flamed with greenonrequest, but try to discourage (with pricing) them from trying to getme towrap with colors that are not in my range of preference. Am I beingtooobstinate, or do others have their particular colors that they use andliketo stick to? >> Bob (and all others)... I "go with the flow" and do what the customer wants. I have twowoodendowels that I wrapped bands of several colors of silk and nylon on. On onethe threads are treated with color preserver and on the other they arenot.Now I need to make a few more (but that's another "round-to-it") ondifferent color blanks... Never seems to end! What I've found thoughisthat many people are quite happy to leave the color selection to mebased onthe overall appearance of the rod - the guides (chrome, black, gold)and thereel seat (metal, graphite, wood inserts) and make the rod "cometogether"with the guide windings. Ken from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Nov 28 15:24:32 1999 Subject: Re: Wrap Colors I find that most of my customers like to pick the thread color for they're wraps, as well as the type of wood for the reel seat and grip shape. That's why I don't build many rods ahead. I usuallybuild my rods to order. I've had rods that I built ahead and they saton my rack for a long time, because they wanted somethingdifferent, made just for them. Dave LeClair from dan_cooney@attglobal.net Sun Nov 28 16:26:23 1999 SMTP +0000 Subject: Re: travel rod Ron, Is the Phillipson Smuggler a 7' 8" long, 3-piece rod? Thanks,Dan Cooney-------------------------- Ron Huff wrote: Dave and Christian, Here is the taper for the Phillipson Smuggler. Themeasurements do NOT have the deduction for varnish. The condition oftherod is excellent with the varnish at full thickness.1" .0865.25 .102 Due to guide10. .12215 .13620 .15825 .17930 .18435 .19340 .21043.75 .220 due to ferrule50 .23855 .25560 .27165 .28671 .305 due to ferrule75 .297 ( I rechecked this)80 .33985 Grip The guide pattern is from top of tip top.5.7512.2519.12526.7534.7544.2548.559.125 Stripper IMHO this rod casts a 6 wgt at medium to long distance very nicely. Notthat great when in close. Minus 25 feet. Maybe would be better with a 7wgt for in close. I hope this helps. Ron Huff----- Original Message -----From: Dave LaTouche Sent: Friday, November 12, 1999 1:50 PMSubject: travel rod List: Would anyone have a taper for a 4 piece, 5 wt. 8' or 8'6" rod, ordirect me to where I could find one? Planning a trip to New Zealand nextspring, and hope to get in a couple of days of the evidently great fishing!Thanks in advance. Dave La Touche from knflyrod@home.com Sun Nov 28 17:37:48 1999 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP Sun, 28 Nov 1999 15:37:46 -0800 Subject: Re: travel rod Dan, The smuggler is a 4 pc single tip 7'8". Ron----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: travel rod Ron, Is the Phillipson Smuggler a 7' 8" long, 3-piece rod? Thanks,Dan Cooney-------------------------- Ron Huff wrote: Dave and Christian, Here is the taper for the Phillipson Smuggler. Themeasurements do NOT have the deduction for varnish. The condition oftherod is excellent with the varnish at full thickness.1" .0865.25 .102 Due to guide10. .12215 .13620 .15825 .17930 .18435 .19340 .21043.75 .220 due to ferrule50 .23855 .25560 .27165 .28671 .305 due to ferrule75 .297 ( I rechecked this)80 .33985 Grip The guide pattern is from top of tip top.5.7512.2519.12526.7534.7544.2548.559.125 Stripper IMHO this rod casts a 6 wgt at medium to long distance very nicely.Notthat great when in close. Minus 25 feet. Maybe would be better with a7wgt for in close. I hope this helps. Ron Huff----- Original Message -----From: Dave LaTouche Sent: Friday, November 12, 1999 1:50 PMSubject: travel rod List: Would anyone have a taper for a 4 piece, 5 wt. 8' or 8'6" rod,ordirect me to where I could find one? Planning a trip to New Zealandnextspring, and hope to get in a couple of days of the evidently greatfishing!Thanks in advance. Dave La Touche from fiveside@net-gate.com Sun Nov 28 18:01:10 1999 ns1.net-gate.com (8.9.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA11006 for; Subject: Gloves To the List,Has anyone tried these kevlar gloves? Protects against Heat, Cuts andAbrasion! Stronger than Steel etc. Bill from oakmere@carol.net Sun Nov 28 18:46:50 1999 Subject: RE: Refinish of an Old Rod Hi Folks: I need some help with a current refinish job of a Tonka Queen bamboo rod.The rod has two decals (fish and genuine tonka) and the writing in verygood shape. I have completed stripping the rod and am now putting oncoatsof polyurathane varish cut 50:50. The application process is working verywell (I have used it before), but when coating the decals and writing I amgetting bubble formation over the decals and writing. Does anyone have asuggestion on what to do to handle this problem. Should I precoat thedecals and writing prior to using the polyurathane varish? Any input orprevious experience would be appreciated. FrankFrank Paul, GreyFox2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 29672fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work)oakmere@carol.net (home) from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Sun Nov 28 18:59:12 1999 with ESMTP id ;Mon, 29 Nov 1999 00:58:35 +0000 Subject: Re: Gloves Bill, Sounds like a great idea. I'm still using my Home Depot $2.00cheapies! Where can they be got? Or is that getted? Dennis Bill Fink wrote: To the List,Has anyone tried these kevlar gloves? Protects against Heat, Cuts andAbrasion! Stronger than Steel etc. Bill from EESweet@aol.com Sun Nov 28 21:13:17 1999 Subject: Hexrod Hey everyone, Quick question about Hexrod; in Wayne's latest version there are twoentries one, line fished. Can anyone tell me what to input into Wayne's version to make it correlate with Frank's? Does the line length item refer simply to the total length of the fly line? TIA Eric from cattanac@wmis.net Sun Nov 28 21:46:15 1999 0000 Subject: Re: Hexrod I can't speak for Frank's - but in Hexrod - the length is meant to be aflexible input so that either a 90 foot line can be used or 83 foot -dividing the total weight evenly throughout the length - which isn't quiteaccurate but close- the fished length then is multiplied buy the weight perfoot - determined by total line weight/line length from EESweet@aol.com Mon Nov 29 00:02:29 1999 Subject: Re: Hexrod Thanks Wayne, and now I even understand why .Eric I can't speak for Frank's - but in Hexrod - the length is meant to be aflexible input so that either a 90 foot line can be used or 83 foot -dividing the total weight evenly throughout the length - which isn'tquiteaccurate but close- the fished length then is multiplied buy the weightperfoot - determined by total line weight/line length from landeens@home.com Mon Nov 29 00:48:56 1999 with SMTP 0800 Subject: Nodeless question boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF39F2.76470D20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF39F2.76470D20 I have built 12 rods conventional style and want to build my next one =nodeless. What kind of spring clamps do people reccommend? I've seen =one reference to 1" spring clamps. Is this the way to go? I figure I =need at least 18-25. Any sources would also be appreciated. Thanks ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF39F2.76470D20 I have built 12 rods conventional style and want to = next one nodeless. What kind of spring clamps do people reccommend? = one reference to 1" spring clamps. Is this the way to go? I figure I = Thanks ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF39F2.76470D20-- from EESweet@aol.com Mon Nov 29 01:17:34 1999 Subject: Re: Nodeless question Head down to your local office supply store and pick up some 1" (or maybe it's 1.25") binder clips. They're a lot cheaper than the woodworking ones and work great. Stay away from the larger sizes, they don't apply nearlyas much pressure to the splice (ask me how I know ). Eric I have built 12 rods conventional style and want to build my next one nodeless. What kind of spring clamps do people reccommend? I've seenone reference to 1" spring clamps. Is this the way to go? I figure I need at least 18-25. Any sources would also be appreciated. Thanks from darrell@rockclimbing.org Mon Nov 29 03:51:40 1999 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: Epoxy Remover boundary="----=_NextPart_000_019A_01BF3A0C.3B1C6B40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_019A_01BF3A0C.3B1C6B40 Sounds like a good tip for the solvent... But... seems like you should have left it as is and come up with some =compelling argument that everyone should swap the ferrule ends from now=on... in keeping with the trend towards being different... and trying =different things... Darrell Sent: Saturday, November 27, 1999 6:51 PMSubject: Epoxy Remover I stayed up till 1:00 working on a 2pc rod a couple of days ago and =discovered in the morning that I had epoxied the male and female =ferrules on the wrong blanks. I talked to a local jeweler and he gave me =a can of solvent called ATTACK. It is specifically made for dissolving =epoxy and polyester resins without hurting wood or metal. I put both =ends of the blank in the stuff and in 5 minutes both ferrules pulled =right off just using my hand. As far as I can tell there was no damage =to the blank. I had used Devcon 2 Ton epoxy. The can gives the following =address to buy it. Hughes Associates, Wayzata, MN 55391. I also used it =to remove a seat from a wooden insert and it worked great. Just thought = ------=_NextPart_000_019A_01BF3A0C.3B1C6B40 Sounds like a good tip for the= solvent... But... seems like you should = as is and come up with some compelling argument that everyone should = ferrule ends from now on... in keeping with the trend towards being = and trying different things... Darrell ----- Original Message ----- Landeens = Sent: Saturday, November 27, = PMSubject: Epoxy Remover I stayed up till 1:00 working on a 2pc rod a = ago and discovered in the morning that I had epoxied the male and = ferrules on the wrong blanks. I talked to a local jeweler and he gave = and polyester resins without hurting wood or metal. I put both ends of = blank in the stuff and in 5 minutes both ferrules pulled right off = used Devcon 2 Ton epoxy. The can gives the following address to buy = Associates, Wayzata, MN 55391. I also used it to remove a seat from a = insert and it worked great. Just thought some of you might = ------=_NextPart_000_019A_01BF3A0C.3B1C6B40-- from darrell@rockclimbing.org Mon Nov 29 03:54:42 1999 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: Bishop Gathering 99 Photos Great photos Ed!!! Had a great time and enjoyed meeting everyone and getting to cast theirrods! Darrell ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Bishop Gathering 99 Photos Guys:Here are the photos from that weekend, use this url:http://members.aol.com/fotogiii/bishop9.jpgHope you like them!!!!!!!Regards,Ed Miller from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Nov 29 05:48:23 1999 Subject: Re: Nodeless question. *WARNING* message also containsfishfest in NZ verbage types="text/plain,text/html";boundary="=====================_8000077==_.ALT" --=====================_8000077==_.ALT The cheep little metal ones are all you need, when I used clamps I used 3perscarf on 1:21 scarfs or you could just bind them as I now do.One thing I might mention though is check your glue before getting toocarriedaway with it all.I've made quite a few nodeless rods without mishap until...........I made three rods from the one pot of glue which I bought as Shell Eponandthehardener which HAS always been great, no problems at all however while Iwasmaking these last few rods all in a 10 day period I noticed a couple ofscarfsfailed. I put this down as what we used to call in the computer supportgame an"error code 69" or a user fault. I replaced the splines with the problemsandmade the rods. While in NZ I caught a lot of decent sized fish with my newly madenodelessDriggs, one quite good sized one in a stream with a strong current whichtook awhile to land and I noticed when it was over there were scarves popping inthebutt and the tip.I just packed it away and continued fishing using my 3 piece WC 7'6 #5which isalso nodeless and is about 3 years old mades with Resorcinol and has alsocaught some decent fish and did so on this trip also. This rod is still going(hint there as to how this story ends). Got to Ian Kearneys' place which was the first place I was able to walkaroundwithout being swarmed by West Coast sand flys for 6 days when I hiked upLakeRotoriti and fished the Travers river and it's streams. I did this alone anddidn't see another person the entire time so I figured it was my duty tofishthis system and fish it hard because there were so many trout there andbad asthe job was somebody just had to do it! ;-)Anyhow, while lawn at Ian's, Ian gave the Driggs a cast and the tipsnappedbecause a scarf failed. I just hate the sound of snapping tips.I was casting Ian's Guide Special at the time, picking up 30 feet of line infront of me and shooting it plus as much line I though I could handle with asingle back cast. Superb taper that. Almost makes you wonder why you'dbotherwith any other 8' ish #7 rods really. If you've ever considered this taper,build it. Anyhow, the point is this:Nodeless rods work great as long as the glue is up to it. I was using gluethatas far as I was concerned was Shell Epon, I think it was either NOT in factShell Epon or it was in some way contaminated or it was skimed from thetop orbottom of a drum that may have settled or something else I can't think of.Even though I'll be seeing the bloke I got this stuff from and advising himofmy thoughts of his glue this ALMOST ruined a fishing trip, happily it brokeinthe afternoon of the day I caught my last fish for the trip in the walk outtomy car to drive up to Ian's.. Just to rub it in this fish was caught right atthe jetty of the tourist section of the lake 30 feet from my car. Shell Epon is great glue, I am in no way angling towards saying it isn'tnor amI suggesting nodeless construction is in any way problematical. As I wroteIsuspect something has happened at the local suppliers end. I will get moreEpon from a different source and continue to use it.UF glues will also work for the scarfs as will Resorcinol which is whatmyWC 3piece 7'5 #5 is made from and it's fine. Just as an aside, you have to give the Kiwis their due. They are handelingthethings that matter like the enviroment and public access withoutsacrificingwhat people are going there for and you get the distint feeling they woulddowhatever it takes to keep it that way. The Kiwis are inteligent peoplewith alot of energy who understand though still seem a bit unaware of justwhattheyhave going there and it shows in the country side and the abundance ofgamethere, the politicians all seem to need a good kick up the back-side butthatjust proves nowhere is perfect. amystery to me) you'll find that while driving along you'll almost always beable to access a stretch you'd like to fish, if not an access point is neverfar away. There is public land and permission to fish it must be obtainedbut Inever fished anywhere other than public access points. Do be aware thatelectric fences abound so if you cross a fence that is not set up with acrossover you may well experience an unexpected sensation you could dowithout.Also, if you go to the West Coast make sure you take insect repelent. I'dsuggest Rid. This stuff is said to be dangerous is used for a prolongedperiodbut it seems the best IMHO. The sand flys are amazing. I used to live in Brisbane and make regular trips to NZ to fish as thereare notrout with an 8-10 hr hard drive from Brisbane and it was better to justforgetabout fishing trout localy and make a couple of trips a year to the NorthIsland. The fishing has always been great in NZ so I was expecting goodthingsbut I was unprepared for just how good the fishing has become in the 10oddyears since I moved to Perth and made my first trip there since.The Kiwis have done an excellent job of management, access is dead easy.Ifished at least 15 public access points on the Owen River betweenMurchisonandthe turn off to St Arnaud where Lake Roteriti is and caught 5-6 good sizedfishon this 30km (approx 20 miles) all within sight of my car and this isfairlywell fished so I'll leave it to your imagination as to what it was likewhere Ihiked 20kms into the Travers valley. To mention how many I caught is abitbeside the point but every day I was there (6 days) I stoped fishing beforethefish stoped hooking themselves simply because I had to be back to campbeforeit was too dark to see my way back wading in the dark.If you can make it there and don't you will have missed something worthdoingin possibly the last country with such easy access with fish worthchasing.YouDONT need a guide. If you get to this area there is a guide/fly tyer in Merchison called PeterCarty who charges $585 per day (approx $US 300) and right next door tohimis awood turner. Stop by at the turners place and check out the mostincrediblesetof Wapiti antlers you' re likely to see unless you hunt in Alaska or somewhere. I used to hunt these in Fiordland so I've seen a few and seen someverynice mounted heads but nothing like these. There are three. One is aRed/Wapitihibred and is the bigest Red antlers I've seen with the top tines beingable tohold a whole bottle within them, not just a wine glass, one Wapiti that isjusthuge and the other that is stagering. I'd estimate the top tine is about 7feet from the head. How this animal got around the forrest is a puzzle. Thewoodturner's Dad shot this from about 50 yards while shooting possums! with a.303in 1927. Thanks very much to Ian for his hospitality and his detailed advise onfishingspots around Nelson which is yet another major area for a troutfest. Tony At 10:46 PM 11/28/99 -0800, you wrote: I have built 12 rods conventional style and want to build my next onenodeless. What kind of spring clamps do people reccommend? I've seenonereference to 1" spring clamps. Is this the way to go? I figure I need atleast 18-25. Any sources would also be appreciated. Thanks /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_8000077==_.ALT The cheep little metal ones are all you need, when I used clamps I used 3per scarf on 1:21 scarfs or you could just bind them as I now do.One thing I might mention though is check your glue before getting toocarried away with it all.I've made quite a few nodeless rods without mishap until...........I made three rods from the one pot of glue which I bought as Shell Eponand the hardener which HAS always been great, no problems at all howeverwhile I was making these last few rods all in a 10 day period I noticed acouple of scarfs failed. I put this down as what we used to call in thecomputer support game an "error code 69" or a user fault. Ireplaced the splines with the problems and made the rods. While in NZ I caught a lot of decent sized fish with my newly madenodeless Driggs, one quite good sized one in a stream with a strongcurrent which took a while to land and I noticed when it was over therewere scarves popping in the butt and the tip.I just packed it away and continued fishing using my 3 piece WC 7'6 #5which is also nodeless and is about 3 years old mades with Resorcinol andhas also caught some decent fish and did so on this trip also. This rodis still going (hint there as to how this story ends). Got to Ian Kearneys' place which was the first place I was able to walkaround without being swarmed by West Coast sand flys for 6 days when Ihiked up Lake Rotoriti and fished the Travers river and it's streams. I figured it was my duty to fish this system and fish it hard because therewere so many trout there and bad as the job was somebody just had to do snapped because a scarf failed. I just hate the sound of snappingtips.I was casting Ian's Guide Special at the time, picking up 30 feet of linein front of me and shooting it plus as much line I though I could handlewith a single back cast. Superb taper that. Almost makes you wonder whyyou'd bother with any other 8' ish #7 rods really. If you've everconsidered this taper, build it. Anyhow, the point is this:Nodeless rods work great as long as the glue is up to it. I was usingglue that as far as I was concerned was Shell Epon, I think it was eitherNOT in fact Shell Epon or it was in some way contaminated or it wasskimed from the top or bottom of a drum that may have settled orsomething else I can't think of.Even though I'll be seeing the bloke I got this stuff from and advisinghim of my thoughts of his glue this ALMOST ruined a fishing trip, happilyit broke in the afternoon of the day I caught my last fish for the tripin the walk out to my car to drive up to Ian's.. Just to rub it in thisfish was caught right at the jetty of the tourist section of the lake 30feet from my car. Shell Epon is great glue, I am in no way angling towards saying it isn'tnor am I suggesting nodeless construction is in any way problematical. AsI wrote I suspect something has happened at the local suppliers end. Iwill get more Epon from a different source and continue to use it.UF glues will also work for the scarfs as will Resorcinol which is whatmy WC 3 piece 7'5 #5 is made from and it's fine. Just as an aside, you have to give the Kiwis their due. They arehandeling the things that matter like the enviroment and public accesswithout sacrificing what people are going there for and you get thedistint feeling they would do whatever it takes to keep it that way. TheKiwis are inteligent people with a lot of energy who understand though shows in the country side and the abundance of game there, thepoliticians all seem to need a good kick up the back-side but that justproves nowhere is perfect. is a mystery to me) you'll find that while driving along you'll almostalways be able to access a stretch you'd like to fish, if not an accesspoint is never far away. There is public land and permission to fish itmust be obtained but I never fished anywhere other than public accesspoints. Do be aware that electric fences abound so if you cross a fencethat is not set up with a cross over you may well experience anunexpected sensation you could do without.Also, if you go to the West Coast make sure you take insect repelent. I'dsuggest Rid. This stuff is said to be dangerous is used for a prolongedperiod but it seems the best IMHO. The sand flys are amazing. I used to live in Brisbane and make regular trips to NZ to fish as thereare no trout with an 8-10 hr hard drive from Brisbane and it was betterto just forget about fishing trout localy and make a couple of trips ayear to the North Island. The fishing has always been great in NZ so Iwas expecting good things but I was unprepared for just how goodthefishing has become in the 10 odd years since I moved to Perth and mademyfirst trip there since.The Kiwis have done an excellent job of management, access is dead easy.I fished at least 15 public access points on the Owen River betweenMurchison and the turn off to St Arnaud where Lake Roteriti is and caught5-6 good sized fish on this 30km (approx 20 miles) all within sight of mycar and this is fairly well fished so I'll leave it to your imaginationas to what it was like where I hiked 20kms into the Travers valley. Tomention how many I caught is a bit beside the point but every day I wasthere (6 days) I stoped fishing before the fish stoped hooking themselvessimply because I had to be back to camp before it was too dark to see myway back wading in the dark.If you can make it there and don't you will have missed something worthdoing in possibly the last country with such easy access with fish worthchasing. You DONT need a guide. If you get to this area there is a guide/fly tyer in Merchison calledPeter Carty who charges $585 per day (approx $US 300) and right nextdoorto him is a wood turner. Stop by at the turners place and check out themost incredible set of Wapiti antlers you' re likely to see unless youhunt in Alaska or some where. I used to hunt these in Fiordland so I'veseen a few and seen some very nice mounted heads but nothing like these.There are three. One is a Red/Wapiti hibred and is the bigest Red antlersI've seen with the top tines being able to hold a whole bottle withinthem, not just a wine glass, one Wapiti that is just huge and the otherthat is stagering. I'd estimate the top tine is about 7 feet from thehead. How this animal got around the forrest is a puzzle. The woodturner's Dad shot this from about 50 yards while shooting possums! with a.303 in 1927. Thanks very much to Ian for his hospitality and his detailed advise onfishing spots around Nelson which is yet another major area for atroutfest. Tony At 10:46 PM 11/28/99 -0800, you wrote: I have built 12 rods conventionalstyle and want to build my next one nodeless. What kind of spring clampsdo people reccommend? I've seen one reference to 1" spring clamps.Is this the way to go? I figure I need at least 18-25. Any sources wouldalso be appreciated. Thanks /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_8000077==_.ALT-- from caneman@clnk.com Mon Nov 29 06:07:20 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Mon, 29 Nov 1999 06:05:41 -0600 Subject: hardener boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0144_01BF3A2F.8CB354A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0144_01BF3A2F.8CB354A0 Can anyone give me a source for Ammonium Chloride? I would like to buy=a small quantity to try as a replacement for the hardener (powdered =walnut shells and ammonium chloride) provided with URAC. Also, if you =don't mind, the "recipe" for the mix! Thanks in advance,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0144_01BF3A2F.8CB354A0 = buy a small quantity to try as a replacement for the hardener (powdered = the "recipe" for the mix! Thanks in advance,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0144_01BF3A2F.8CB354A0-- from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon Nov 29 08:03:50 1999 Subject: Re: hardener boundary="=====================_4687249==_.ALT" --=====================_4687249==_.ALT Sorry, Bob, this is not a response to your inquiry. However, it seemed tobethe only way I could get my message online.Recent discussions have evolved around producing a final finish--some ofyousand and follow up with a polish. I know that George Mauer sells (sold?) apolish kit, but I have been unable to make contact regarding purchasingsuch. I have also searched the archives to little avail regarding polishing afterfinal sanding. I have recently read in wood finishing books that finegradesof auto buffing compounds are typically used, rather than going throughthetrouble of making up a mixture of rottenstone, etc.Any comments on what some of you use for final polishing the sandedfinish? Sources of such?TIAJ. Snider At 06:04 AM 11/29/1999 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote: Can anyone give me a source for Ammonium Chloride? I would like tobuy asmall quantity to try as a replacement for the hardener (powderedwalnutshells and ammonium chloride) provided with URAC. Also, if you don'tmind,the "recipe" for the mix! Thanks in advance,Bob --=====================_4687249==_.ALT seemed to be the only way I could get my message online.Recent discussions have evolved around producing a final finish--some ofyou sand and follow up with a polish. I know that George Mauer sells(sold?) a polish kit, but I have been unable to make contact regarding wood finishing books that fine grades of auto buffing compounds aretypically used, rather than going through the trouble of making up amixture of rottenstone, etc.Any comments on what some of you use for final polishing the sanded TIA At 06:04 AM 11/29/1999 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote: tobuy a small quantity to try as a replacement for the hardener (powdered you don't mind, the "recipe" for the mix! Thanks in advance,Bob --=====================_4687249==_.ALT-- from caneman@clnk.com Mon Nov 29 08:16:17 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Mon, 29 Nov 1999 08:14:36 -0600 "Jerry Snider" Subject: Re: hardener boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0215_01BF3A41.8EC19600" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0215_01BF3A41.8EC19600 Jerry,I don't know what others use, but I bet it is as varied as other =aspects of the craft. I use a 3M product called Perfect-It II Rubbing =compound, Fine Cut. It does a very good job of polishing. The 3M part =number is 051131, and it is available at many auto parts stores. I get =mine from O'Rielly's (sp). Auto Parts, but any parts store that carries =painting products will probably have it. Before I started using this =stuff, I used Turtle's #7 auto polish, and it was faster, but honestly, =I don't feel it polished the varnish to quite the sheen the Perfect-It =does. Bob -----Original Message-----From: Jerry Snider Date: Monday, November 29, 1999 8:02 AMSubject: Re: hardener Sorry, Bob, this is not a response to your inquiry. However, it =seemed to be the only way I could get my message online.Recent discussions have evolved around producing a final =finish--some of you sand and follow up with a polish. I know that George =Mauer sells (sold?) a polish kit, but I have been unable to make contact =regarding purchasing such. I have also searched the archives to little =avail regarding polishing after final sanding. I have recently read in =wood finishing books that fine grades of auto buffing compounds are =typically used, rather than going through the trouble of making up a =mixture of rottenstone, etc.Any comments on what some of you use for final polishing the sanded =finish? Sources of such?TIA Can anyone give me a source for Ammonium Chloride? I would like =to buy a small quantity to try as a replacement for the hardener =(powdered walnut shells and ammonium chloride) provided with URAC. =Also, if you don't mind, the "recipe" for the mix! Thanks in advance,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0215_01BF3A41.8EC19600 Jerry, what = but I bet it is as varied as other aspects of the craft. I use a 3M = started using this stuff, I used Turtle's #7 auto polish, and it was = honestly, I don't feel it polished the varnish to quite the sheen the = does. Bob -----Original = caneman@clnk.com Serve <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= hardenerSorry, Bob, this is not a response to = finish--some of you sand and follow up with a polish. I know that = Mauer sells (sold?) a polish kit, but I have been unable to make = typically used, rather than going through the trouble of making up a = of rottenstone, etc.Any comments on what some of you use for = Can anyone give me a source a replacement for the hardener (powdered walnut shells and = advance,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0215_01BF3A41.8EC19600-- from caneman@clnk.com Mon Nov 29 08:17:32 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Mon, 29 Nov 1999 08:15:53 -0600 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: hardener Ted,And I apologize for mine.Thank you for the info, but someone mailed me off list that has someafter they quit URAC and went to Epon. Thank you very much for the"recipe". I am getting tired of sifting out the walnut medium and Iunderstand that with the Am. Cl. and water mix, I have a little bit moreworking time???? True or not? Regardless, I hate those chunks in thesupplied hardener. Thanks,Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: hardener You can order ammonium chloride from most drug stores. They may nothaveit in stock, but their suppliers will have it. A 100g bottle is around$10. I mix it 10 parts distilled water to 1 part ammonium chloride, thenmix this solution 10 parts resin to 1 part solution. Ratios are by weighton a balance scale. Bob, I apologize for my remarks last night, ----------From: Bob Nunley Subject: hardenerDate: Monday, November 29, 1999 7:04 AM Can anyone give me a source for Ammonium Chloride? I would like to buyasmall quantity to try as a replacement for the hardener (powdered walnutshells and ammonium chloride) provided with URAC. Also, if you don'tmind,the "recipe" for the mix! Thanks in advance,Bob from mrmac@tcimet.net Mon Nov 29 08:20:18 1999 GAA18925 Subject: Varmor R7/R10 Good morning! I held off on the varnishing so that I could contactPratt & Lambert's 800 number (thank you for the number!) this morning.A very helpful fellow there explained that R7 is a true spar varnish,i.e. oil based, alkyd resin, and is intended for outdoor use. R10 is agloss polyurethane intended for indoor use. I am quite comfortable at this point keeping the R7, given it is atraditional type spar, and I had wanted to have choices available sinceI do occasional restoration work for a couple friends. But now I'mreally curious about the R10s high praise, since it is supposedlyintended for indoor use. I didn't think to ask, but would expect thatit would not have UV inhibitors (is that a big deal?), and Dave @ P&L's800 number indicated that he would expect it to suffer cracking withtime under flexing conditions. What are properties of the R10 that have lead to the favorable reviews under long term use? At this point, since I have it, and the trip tothe store is a hassle, I'll probably do the next couple rods with theR7, but it seems to me to be good to have choices. regards to all, mac, who wishes he lived in NZ. from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Nov 29 08:54:14 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Mon, 29 Nov 1999 08:45:55 -0600 ,"Jerry Snider" Subject: Re: Polishing, etc. boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0049_01BF3A47.44400AC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01BF3A47.44400AC0 In the highly competitive model airplane game, Rolls Royce auto finishes =are common. Models in the $3000 range ! These finishes are relatively =soft, but harder than a spar varnish type finish. For final polishing, =Gorham's Silver Polish, is now SOP ! If you think about what this =product is meant to do, it's easy to see that the minimum amount of =surface removal, with maximum gloss, is the goal. In my use of poly urethanes, I find that the Min Wax product gets much =more brittle, than the Glidden product. Both are impervious to volatiles =or acids, once dried, but the Min Wax product will chip, or crack long =before the Glidden does. I wish I were more learned about the urethanes, =as the other products have basic plasticizers, that can control this =brittleness problem entirely. Ultra violet is our big enemy, as it rots nylon, and monofilament, plus =many other things, merely by exposure to it. The "Space Age" has given =us so many new products, as it has required the ability to resist ultra =violet with many products, among these myriad of other things. GMA Sent: Monday, November 29, 1999 8:13 AMSubject: Re: hardener Jerry,I don't know what others use, but I bet it is as varied as other =aspects of the craft. I use a 3M product called Perfect-It II Rubbing =compound, Fine Cut. It does a very good job of polishing. The 3M part =number is 051131, and it is available at many auto parts stores. I get =mine from O'Rielly's (sp). Auto Parts, but any parts store that carries =painting products will probably have it. Before I started using this =stuff, I used Turtle's #7 auto polish, and it was faster, but honestly, =I don't feel it polished the varnish to quite the sheen the Perfect-It =does. Bob -----Original Message-----From: Jerry Snider Date: Monday, November 29, 1999 8:02 AMSubject: Re: hardener Sorry, Bob, this is not a response to your inquiry. However, it =seemed to be the only way I could get my message online.Recent discussions have evolved around producing a final =finish--some of you sand and follow up with a polish. I know that George =Mauer sells (sold?) a polish kit, but I have been unable to make contact =regarding purchasing such. I have also searched the archives to little =avail regarding polishing after final sanding. I have recently read in =wood finishing books that fine grades of auto buffing compounds are =typically used, rather than going through the trouble of making up a =mixture of rottenstone, etc.Any comments on what some of you use for final polishing the sanded =finish? Sources of such?TIA Can anyone give me a source for Ammonium Chloride? I would like =to buy a small quantity to try as a replacement for the hardener =(powdered walnut shells and ammonium chloride) provided with URAC. =Also, if you don't mind, the "recipe" for the mix! Thanks in advance,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01BF3A47.44400AC0 In the highly competitive model airplane = Royce auto finishes are common. Models in the $3000 range ! These = polishing, Gorham's Silver Polish, is now SOP ! If you think about what = product is meant to do, it's easy to see that the minimum amount of = removal, with maximum gloss, is the goal. In my use of poly urethanes, I find that the Min Wax = much more brittle, than the Glidden product. Both are impervious to = acids, once dried, but the Min Wax product will chip, or crack long = Glidden does. I wish I were more learned about the urethanes, as the = products have basic plasticizers, that can control this brittleness = entirely. Ultra violet is our big enemy, as it rots nylon, and = plus many other things, merely by exposure to it. The "Space Age" has = so many new products, as it has required the ability to resist ultra = many products, among these myriad of other things. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Bob =Nunley Makers List Serve ; Jerry Snider Sent: Monday, November 29, 1999= AMSubject: Re: hardener Jerry, = use, but I bet it is as varied as other aspects of the craft. I use a = and it was faster, but honestly, I don't feel it polished the varnish = the sheen the Perfect-It does. Bob -----Original = caneman@clnk.com Serve <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= hardenerSorry, Bob, this is not a response to = finish--some of you sand and follow up with a polish. I know that = Mauer sells (sold?) a polish kit, but I have been unable to make = typically used, rather than going through the trouble of making up a = of rottenstone, etc.Any comments on what some of you use for = Can anyone give me a source for = replacement for the hardener (powdered walnut shells and advance,Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01BF3A47.44400AC0-- from gholland@navsys.com Mon Nov 29 08:58:17 1999 "'rodmakers'" Subject: RE: AK Vise A.K.'s is out of business...however, McKenzie's is selling basically thesame vise (and I surmise that A.K. is all that happy about it). There is anad for it in that latest "Fly Tyer" magazine. I don't have it hands so Idon't know address/phone etc... Greg -----Original Message----- Subject: does anybody have a source for A K Best fly tying vices? Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from jhewitt@cmn.net Mon Nov 29 09:13:10 1999 Subject: Re: A.K.'s name is no longer associated with the vice. But recently I saw acatalog from McKenzie that had what appeared to be the identical vice.I'll look for the number and address.John... Coffey, Patrick W wrote: does anybody have a source for A K Best fly tying vices? Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Nov 29 09:15:25 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Mon, 29 Nov 1999 09:07:29 -0600 Subject: Re: Refinish of an Old Rod boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0088_01BF3A4A.47DB2B80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0088_01BF3A4A.47DB2B80 The urethane volatiles are obviously attacking the decals. You might try =a very light coat of standard spar varnish, over just the decals, and =allow it to dry several days, if not weeks. It would best to use an =airbrush, and put the coat over the decals almost "dry", i.e., a fine =dry mist. One, or two coats in this manner, is time consuming, but the =sort of inert spar varnish could give you the barrier you are looking =for. Once really cured, the spar varnish should provide protection from =the other coats of urethane. GMA Sent: Sunday, November 28, 1999 6:49 PMSubject: RE: Refinish of an Old Rod Hi Folks: I need some help with a current refinish job of a Tonka Queen bamboo =rod.The rod has two decals (fish and genuine tonka) and the writing in =verygood shape. I have completed stripping the rod and am now putting on =coatsof polyurathane varish cut 50:50. The application process is working =verywell (I have used it before), but when coating the decals and writing =I amgetting bubble formation over the decals and writing. Does anyone have =asuggestion on what to do to handle this problem. Should I precoat thedecals and writing prior to using the polyurathane varish? Any input =orprevious experience would be appreciated. FrankFrank Paul, GreyFox2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 29672fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work)oakmere@carol.net (home) ------=_NextPart_000_0088_01BF3A4A.47DB2B80 The urethane volatiles are obviously = decals. You might try a very light coat of standard spar varnish, over = decals, and allow it to dry several days, if not weeks. It = use an airbrush, and put the coat over the decals almost "dry", i.e., a = mist. One, or two coats in this manner, is time consuming, but the sort = spar varnish could give you the barrier you are looking for. Once really = urethane. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Frank= = Sent: Sunday, November 28, 1999= PMSubject: RE: Refinish of an Old =RodHi Folks:I need some help with a current = of a Tonka Queen bamboo rod.The rod has two decals (fish and = tonka) and the writing in verygood shape. I have completed = rod and am now putting on coatsof polyurathane varish cut 50:50. = application process is working verywell (I have used it before), = coating the decals and writing I amgetting bubble formation over = decals and writing. Does anyone have asuggestion on what to do to = this problem. Should I precoat thedecals and writing prior to = appreciated.FrankFrank Paul, GreyFox2932 North = (home) ------=_NextPart_000_0088_01BF3A4A.47DB2B80-- from rsgould@cmc.net Mon Nov 29 09:35:05 1999 Subject: Re: Varmor R7/R10 Hi Ralph,My experience with P&L R-10 covers 22 years of rod building with noproblemswhatsoever with the varnish. The properties it has that I like are it's wearresistance and ease of application. I've encountered no cracking orwrinkling. Perhaps it's important to note that the instructions on the canindicate that it not to be thinned and to be sure each coat has hardenedbefore sanding and that a tack rag should be used before recoating. Ichangethe varnish in my dipper once per year and keep it at room temperature.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Varmor R7/R10 Good morning! I held off on the varnishing so that I could contactPratt & Lambert's 800 number (thank you for the number!) this morning.A very helpful fellow there explained that R7 is a true spar varnish,i.e. oil based, alkyd resin, and is intended for outdoor use. R10 is agloss polyurethane intended for indoor use. I am quite comfortable at this point keeping the R7, given it is atraditional type spar, and I had wanted to have choices available sinceI do occasional restoration work for a couple friends. But now I'mreally curious about the R10s high praise, since it is supposedlyintended for indoor use. I didn't think to ask, but would expect thatit would not have UV inhibitors (is that a big deal?), and Dave @ P&L's800 number indicated that he would expect it to suffer cracking withtime under flexing conditions. What are properties of the R10 that have lead to the favorable reviews under long term use? At this point, since I have it, and the trip tothe store is a hassle, I'll probably do the next couple rods with theR7, but it seems to me to be good to have choices. regards to all, mac, who wishes he lived in NZ. from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Mon Nov 29 09:48:34 1999 Subject: Rod Tubes Sorry for the delay on this, but I've been out of town all week.Try Clear Creek Co., P.O.Box 182, New Hampton, Iowa 50659. Phone515-394-2048 or fax 515-394-4278. E-mail - sales@clearcreek.net. They put out a nice catalog.They have 1.5" plastic tubes w/ a foam core & plastic screwcap for $8.50.Cloth covered 1.5" tubes w/ screwcap for $11.00, 2" = $12.50. Aluminum2"tubes run from 16.70 for a 23.5" to $22.80 for a 6'2" tube. They'll custom cut to any length and screenprint or embroider your logo onmost things. No commercial interest here just nice people to deal with. Dennis from earsdws@duke.edu Mon Nov 29 10:19:54 1999 LAA07554; "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Varmor R7/R10 I am a bamboo newbie, but have a number of years of experience with sparvarnishes and classic wooden/mahognay boats. It seems to me that agood,true spar intended for marine use would be the gold standard for bamboorods: THey are formuated to withstand both water (duh) and sun, which isthe ultimate evil when it comes to brightwork (the sun passes throughttheclear varnish and heats up the dark wood, baking the finish off).While my 26' 1948 Chris Craft received 10 coats of Captain's Varnish(acres of varnish, ~10 gallons) in 1996 (on top of a first coat of tung oilvarnish, over stain, matching the "vehicles" in both finishes), other,newer spars are now available with greater sun protection. The tung oilwas used in place of thinned spar, to aid in penetration.My boat has a waterline cover, but sits in the water in Michigan for4-6 weeks each summer and, with the aid of a top coat this summer(brightwork experts recommend one-two top coats each summerprophylactically), is in perfect shape, save for the child-induced dings.Seems like this should also work for a bamboo rod, but I hear relativelylittle discussion of the marine spars.dws. Ralph MacKenzie wrote: Good morning! I held off on the varnishing so that I could contactPratt & Lambert's 800 number (thank you for the number!) this morning.A very helpful fellow there explained that R7 is a true spar varnish,i.e. oil based, alkyd resin, and is intended for outdoor use. R10 is agloss polyurethane intended for indoor use. I am quite comfortable at this point keeping the R7, given it is atraditional type spar, and I had wanted to have choices available sinceI do occasional restoration work for a couple friends. But now I'mreally curious about the R10s high praise, since it is supposedlyintended for indoor use. I didn't think to ask, but would expect thatit would not have UV inhibitors (is that a big deal?), and Dave @ P&L's800 number indicated that he would expect it to suffer cracking withtime under flexing conditions. What are properties of the R10 that have lead to the favorable reviews under long term use? At this point, since I have it, and the trip tothe store is a hassle, I'll probably do the next couple rods with theR7, but it seems to me to be good to have choices. regards to all, mac, who wishes he lived in NZ. from rp43640@online-club.de Mon Nov 29 13:18:26 1999 Mon, 29 Nov 1999 20:17:17 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: Gloves Bill,I would not recommend these gloves since thy do not protect againstsplinters.Otherwise they are great if you heat treat your bamboo. Christian Bill Fink schrieb: To the List,Has anyone tried these kevlar gloves? Protects against Heat, Cuts andAbrasion! Stronger than Steel etc. Bill from rsgould@cmc.net Mon Nov 29 13:19:26 1999 Subject: Re: Varmor R7/R10 Hi David,There has been data published in a May/June 1987 issue of FineWoodworking as to the moisture resistance of a number of finishes.Polyurethane varnish showed superior to Spar varnish and to Tung Oil.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Varmor R7/R10 I am a bamboo newbie, but have a number of years of experience withsparvarnishes and classic wooden/mahognay boats. It seems to me that agood,true spar intended for marine use would be the gold standard for bamboorods: THey are formuated to withstand both water (duh) and sun, whichisthe ultimate evil when it comes to brightwork (the sun passes throughttheclear varnish and heats up the dark wood, baking the finish off).While my 26' 1948 Chris Craft received 10 coats of Captain's Varnish(acres of varnish, ~10 gallons) in 1996 (on top of a first coat of tungoilvarnish, over stain, matching the "vehicles" in both finishes), other,newer spars are now available with greater sun protection. The tung oilwas used in place of thinned spar, to aid in penetration.My boat has a waterline cover, but sits in the water in Michigan for4-6 weeks each summer and, with the aid of a top coat this summer(brightwork experts recommend one-two top coats each summerprophylactically), is in perfect shape, save for the child-induced dings.Seems like this should also work for a bamboo rod, but I hear relativelylittle discussion of the marine spars.dws. Ralph MacKenzie wrote: Good morning! I held off on the varnishing so that I could contactPratt & Lambert's 800 number (thank you for the number!) this morning.A very helpful fellow there explained that R7 is a true spar varnish,i.e. oil based, alkyd resin, and is intended for outdoor use. R10 is agloss polyurethane intended for indoor use. I am quite comfortable at this point keeping the R7, given it is atraditional type spar, and I had wanted to have choices available sinceI do occasional restoration work for a couple friends. But now I'mreally curious about the R10s high praise, since it is supposedlyintended for indoor use. I didn't think to ask, but would expect thatit would not have UV inhibitors (is that a big deal?), and Dave @ P&L's800 number indicated that he would expect it to suffer cracking withtime under flexing conditions. What are properties of the R10 that have lead to the favorable reviews under long term use? At this point, since I have it, and the trip tothe store is a hassle, I'll probably do the next couple rods with theR7, but it seems to me to be good to have choices. regards to all, mac, who wishes he lived in NZ. from rossiter@mindspring.com Mon Nov 29 13:40:52 1999 Subject: Re: Gloves I have been using some heavy duty household rubber gloves that I got atthehardware store. They are dark blue rubber on the outside and have a whitefabric interior. I think they cost about $10. I have used them for severalyears for washing cars in cool weather. They seem to work fine forplaning.The are thick enough to resist splinters and the rubber surface is tackyenough to grip the bamboo strip well. David -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Gloves Bill,I would not recommend these gloves since thy do not protect againstsplinters.Otherwise they are great if you heat treat your bamboo. Christian Bill Fink schrieb: To the List,Has anyone tried these kevlar gloves? Protects against Heat, Cuts andAbrasion! Stronger than Steel etc. Bill from oossg@vbe.com Mon Nov 29 13:53:23 1999 Subject: Nickel Silver To list,I would like to turn my own winding checks and was wondering if anyonecan help me find a source for nickel silver and if there is a way tomake a hex shaped opening?Scott from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Nov 29 13:59:08 1999 Subject: Silk Line Varnish Friends,I'm in the process of restoring an old silk line I picked up onEbay. Reed Curry's excellent article on FlyAnglers Online has been agreat help. I never thought that baking soda trick would work so well!I'm putting new varnish on the line, and have applied 5 lightcoats. Here's my questions: When do I stop? How stiff should the linebe? Should I keep applying coats of varnish thill the finish is slick (I doubt it) or stop when the entire line seems to be well coated?As you might guess, I'm a complete novice with silk lines. At 41years of age, I cut my teeth on plastic lines, so any help isappreciated. Thanks,Harry from chris@artistree.com Mon Nov 29 14:35:59 1999 Subject: Re: Gloves Bill,I haven't tried the Kevlar but I do use a pair of gloves that arespecifically designed for handling glass & metal. These look a bit likea pair of mule gloves but have a thick & rough rubber coating. Can'trecommend these highly enough as nothing seems to cut through them.Theyhave even saved my pinkie from a close encounter with a very sharpbamboo splitting froe. They're a little warm in the summer and a bitclammy in the winter but defiantly the toughest pair of $6 gloves I'veever owned. Best Regards,Chris Wohlford p.s. - Orchard Hardware & Supply carries them and I believe they aremade by MidWest Quality Gloves Inc. Bill Fink schrieb: To the List,Has anyone tried these kevlar gloves? Protects against Heat, Cuts andAbrasion! Stronger than Steel etc. Bill from anglport@con2.com Mon Nov 29 14:44:25 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A55B10802C2; Mon, 29 Nov 1999 15:43:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Gloves Speaking of heat treating, I don't know if I'm parroting something Ilearned here or bringing something new to the table, but.....I saw somewhere that you don't want to use leather gloves to handle hotthings as by the time the heat gets through them, you'll be burned beforeyou can get them off. Apparently they hold the heat and keep it next to youso that you'll get burned before you can do anything to stop it. I think itwas a site on welding that gave the warning....Art 08:13 PM 11/29/1999 +0100, Christian Meinke wrote:Bill,I would not recommend these gloves since thy do not protect againstsplinters.Otherwise they are great if you heat treat your bamboo. Christian Bill Fink schrieb: To the List,Has anyone tried these kevlar gloves? Protects against Heat, Cuts andAbrasion! Stronger than Steel etc. Bill *Some people can tell what time it is by looking at the sun, but I never have been able to make out the numbers.* from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Nov 29 15:21:02 1999 1999 13:20:59 PST Subject: Re: Gloves greetings! i use leather palmed insulated workgloves when i am flaming, a pair of tim taylor workgloves when rough planing and finger cots when finalplaning and dinking with the blanks in the oven. ialso have used a 59 cent pair of light fabric gloveswhile planing. i got them at the hardware store andthey have a slightly rubberized palm. i can feel withthem and the bamboo doesn't seem to cut them. they dowear out but they are 59 cents. timothy Has anyone tried these kevlar gloves? Protectsagainst Heat, Cuts andAbrasion! Stronger than Steel etc. Bill ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Mon Nov 29 15:38:07 1999 0500 Subject: RE: Gloves That may be so in theory, however, I just spent an hour yesterdaystraightening nodes over an alcohol lamp with leather gloves and mythumbsare unscathed. I also experimented straightening one node with my handsandthe next by pressing it in a vise. I didn't see that the vise was anyquicker, nor did it do a better job, and in fact I had a lot more controlusing my fingers. I like using the alcohol lamp, by the way, because it islo-tech, cheap and quick.-----Original Message-----From: Art Port [SMTP:anglport@con2.com]Sent: Monday, November 29, 1999 3:44 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Gloves Speaking of heat treating, I don't know if I'm parroting something Ilearned here or bringing something new to the table, but.....I saw somewhere that you don't want to use leather gloves to handle hotthings as by the time the heat gets through them, you'll be burned beforeyou can get them off. Apparently they hold the heat and keep it next toyouso that you'll get burned before you can do anything to stop it. I thinkitwas a site on welding that gave the warning....Art from mevans@acxiom.com Mon Nov 29 15:42:22 1999 (router,SLMail V3.2); Mon, 29 Nov 1999 15:45:30 -0600 (router,SLMail V3.2); Mon, 29 Nov 1999 15:41:47 -0600 (204.107.111.23::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V3.2); Mon, 29 Nov1999 15:41:46-0600 popmail.conway.acxiom.com ; Mon Nov 2915:41:45 1999 -0600 (5.5.2650.21) Subject: RE: Gloves Bill,I have a pair of kevlar gloves - once I got on a first name basis with the emergency room crew I decided get some some protection! I haven't had any problems from splinters (yet). They grip well enough that they haven't slipped - but maybe I've just been lucky.I find myself reaching for them much more than my heavier gloves. They are supple, comortable, and hold strips securely in a form. They've been fine for heat treating. If you're dangerous around sharp objects (like me), you'll love them! (Mice must like them. One chewed through the index fingerof a new pair but didn't touch anything else. The kevlar must be good, cause this little guy won't take cheese!) Mark Bill Fink schrieb: To the List,Has anyone tried these kevlar gloves? Protects against Heat, Cuts andAbrasion! Stronger than Steel etc. Bill from rmoon@ida.net Mon Nov 29 15:54:56 1999 0000 Subject: Re: Gloves I have never liked to do any work with gloves, and heavy gloves forworkingwith bamboo are an anathema. I do use surgeons latex gloveswhen I am planing. I have sliced enough finger to know when the planeis going to grab so they don't need to be think. They only need to beable to provide a little grip on the strip. At the risk of offendingall on the list I think that a perceived need for gloves is more fromapprehension and lack of experience than for a need for protection. Ihave spent enough time that I have learned my tools. Keep em sharperthan sharp and never force the tool or the bamboo.. I have donned myasbestos suit. and I will apologize ahead of time. After all that isonly MHO.Ralph from gl@msrr.dmso.mil Mon Nov 29 16:05:39 1999 triton.dmso.mil(8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA12757 for ;Mon, 29 Nov 1999 Subject: thinning epon there are a few threads in the archives on thinning epoxy, and epon inparticular. however, there's nothing on the advisability of doing so. doany of the epon users thin the stuff successfully?------------------------------------- ------------------------Gary L. Misch, Systems Engineer, AB Technologies, Inc.Alexandria, VA 22311, vox 703-933-3327, fax 703-933-3325 from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Nov 29 16:08:41 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Mon, 29 Nov 1999 16:00:34 -0600 Subject: Re: Gloves boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0051_01BF3A83.FD1B1300" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01BF3A83.FD1B1300 I recently found a Cabella's fishing gear catalog, I'd forgotten I had. =However, I can find nothing about alcohol lamps in it ! Can one of you =give me a page number ? Thanks, GMA Sent: Monday, November 29, 1999 3:39 PMSubject: RE: Gloves That may be so in theory, however, I just spent an hour yesterdaystraightening nodes over an alcohol lamp with leather gloves and my =thumbsare unscathed. I also experimented straightening one node with my =hands andthe next by pressing it in a vise. I didn't see that the vise was anyquicker, nor did it do a better job, and in fact I had a lot more =controlusing my fingers. I like using the alcohol lamp, by the way, because =it islo-tech, cheap and quick.-----Original Message-----From: Art Port [SMTP:anglport@con2.com]Sent: Monday, November 29, 1999 3:44 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Gloves Speaking of heat treating, I don't know if I'm parroting something Ilearned here or bringing something new to the table, but.....I saw somewhere that you don't want to use leather gloves to handle =hotthings as by the time the heat gets through them, you'll be burned =beforeyou can get them off. Apparently they hold the heat and keep it next =toyouso that you'll get burned before you can do anything to stop it. I =thinkitwas a site on welding that gave the warning....Art ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01BF3A83.FD1B1300 I recently found a Cabella's fishing gear = forgotten I had. However, I can find nothing about alcohol lamps in it ! = of you give me a page number ? Thanks, GMA ----- Original Message ----- Seth Steinzor = Sent: Monday, November 29, 1999= PMSubject: RE: GlovesThat may be so in theory, however, I just spent an hour = yesterdaystraightening nodes over an alcohol lamp with leather = that the vise was anyquicker, nor did it do a better job, and in = fiveside@net- ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01BF3A83.FD1B1300-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Nov 29 16:15:51 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Mon, 29 Nov 1999 16:07:55 -0600 Subject: Re: Nickel Silver boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005A_01BF3A85.03C3FAE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005A_01BF3A85.03C3FAE0 I got some 3/8", and 1/2" N.S. from Busby Metals at 516-434-3400, but I =had to get 12' of each. get a super high price, but for a small piece, it can be worth it. GMA Sent: Monday, November 29, 1999 1:48 PMSubject: Nickel Silver To list,I would like to turn my own winding checks and was wondering if anyonecan help me find a source for nickel silver and if there is a way tomake a hex shaped opening?Scott ------=_NextPart_000_005A_01BF3A85.03C3FAE0 I got some 3/8", and 1/2" N.S. from Busby = it. GMA ----- Original Message ----- ScottGrady = = Sent: Monday, November 29, 1999= PMSubject: Nickel SilverTo list,I would like to turn my own winding checks = wondering if anyonecan help me find a source for nickel silver and = opening?Scott ------=_NextPart_000_005A_01BF3A85.03C3FAE0-- from rp43640@online-club.de Mon Nov 29 16:29:36 1999 Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:28:19 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: Gloves Dennis,if you are interested you may try these two links.Through my work as an safety engineer we work with Ansell Edmont theworldlargest manufacturer of protective gloves.You should be able to find something there.Try to read some of the information on the european sitehttp://www.ansell.be there is a lot of information.http://www.ansell.be/http://www.ansellpro.com/ Christian Dennis Haftel schrieb: Bill, Sounds like a great idea. I'm still using my Home Depot $2.00cheapies! Where can they be got? Or is that getted? Dennis Bill Fink wrote: To the List,Has anyone tried these kevlar gloves? Protects against Heat, Cuts andAbrasion! Stronger than Steel etc. Bill from jczimny@dol.net Mon Nov 29 17:33:30 1999 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Varmor R7/R10 What makes a spar varnish a spar is the proportion of resin to oil in themixture. Spars vary from 32 to 40% resin to oil. Most "hard" varnishesincreasethis ratio to as much as 55%. If you want to make any varnish less brittle,you have only to add a little drying oil to the mixture. As for UVprotection,I don't think that a fly rod is exposed to as much sunlight as a boat. Whenwe're discussing UV protection we are really discussing prolonged, dailyexposure. John Z from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Nov 29 18:33:40 1999 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP Mon, 29 Nov 1999 16:33:30 -0800 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Silk Line Varnish Harry Cover until you have covered the silk. 3-4 coats (dependingupon the varnish) will do fine. Polish with talc and then use. Even newlineswill feel rough - you need to fish a line hard for at least a full day until itstartsto feel smooth. Chris On Mon, 29 Nov 1999 13:58:28 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote: Friends,I'm in the process of restoring an old silk line I picked up onEbay. Reed Curry's excellent article on FlyAnglers Online has been agreat help. I never thought that baking soda trick would work so well!I'm putting new varnish on the line, and have applied 5 lightcoats. Here's my questions: When do I stop? How stiff should the linebe? Should I keep applying coats of varnish thill the finish is slick (I doubt it) or stop when the entire line seems to be well coated?As you might guess, I'm a complete novice with silk lines. At 41years of age, I cut my teeth on plastic lines, so any help isappreciated. Thanks,Harry from rcurry@ttlc.net Mon Nov 29 18:45:30 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id AF5BAA440104; Mon, 29 Nov 1999 19:50:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Silk Line Varnish Harry,Rev, the rag should be kept well soaked because you want the varnish topenetrate.You will never get the braid covered to the point of completesmoothness, even new lines aren't like that. As a matter of fact, thatroughness of the braid helps in the shoot (trust me on this...). One companyin Britain actually marketed a plastic line with small bumps to improvethecasting.Best regards,ReedP.S. - let us know what you think after you test drive your new line. Harry Boyd wrote: Friends,I'm in the process of restoring an old silk line I picked up onEbay. Reed Curry's excellent article on FlyAnglers Online has been agreat help. I never thought that baking soda trick would work so well!I'm putting new varnish on the line, and have applied 5 lightcoats. Here's my questions: When do I stop? How stiff should the linebe? Should I keep applying coats of varnish thill the finish is slick (I doubt it) or stop when the entire line seems to be well coated?As you might guess, I'm a complete novice with silk lines. At 41years of age, I cut my teeth on plastic lines, so any help isappreciated. Thanks,Harry from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Nov 29 19:42:24 1999 Subject: Re: Nickel Silver In a message dated 11/29/1999 3:00:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,oossg@vbe.com writes: Contact Busby Metals at 1-800-552-8729 They carry Nickel Silver Bar stock 12% leaded. This iswhat I use for winding checks. As far as making hex shaped winding checks, there is one guy out there who makes hex shapedpunches, but I can't remember his name at the moment. I'm sure someone on the list will remember who he is. Dave LeClair from tonkin@xtn.net Mon Nov 29 19:53:10 1999 Mon, 29 Nov 1999 20:52:59 -0500 Subject: Re: hardener Jerry, You mentioned a Rotton Stone mixture. What does the mixture consist of? Jerry Snider wrote: Sorry, Bob, this is not a response to your inquiry. However, itseemed to be the only way I could get my message online.Recent discussions have evolved around producing a final finish--someof you sand and follow up with a polish. I know that George Mauersells (sold?) a polish kit, but I have been unable to make contactregarding purchasing such. I have also searched the archives tolittle avail regarding polishing after final sanding. I have recentlyread in wood finishing books that fine grades of auto buffingcompounds are typically used, rather than going through the trouble ofmaking up a mixture of rottenstone, etc.Any comments on what some of you use for final polishing the sandedfinish? Sources of such?TIAJ. SniderAt 06:04 AM 11/29/1999 - 0600, Bob Nunley wrote: Can anyone give me a source for Ammonium Chloride? I would like tobuy a small quantity to try as a replacement for the hardener(powdered walnut shells and ammonium chloride) provided with URAC.Also, if you don't mind, the "recipe" for the mix! Thanks in advance,Bob from harry37@epix.net Mon Nov 29 20:07:16 1999 VAA18056 Subject: Burl cork A general question about burl cork--I've never used it before, and I'mconsidering it for a rod handle--Do I need to take any specialprecautions when I'm shaping? It would seem that the defects that giveit its characteristic look would make for uneven shaping/sanding becauseof hard spots and softer spots. Any advice? thanks, Greg from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon Nov 29 20:09:54 1999 Subject: Re: Nickel Silver I believe Richard Tyree developed a hexagonal punch used to shape windingchecks. If I am not mistaken, Jeff Wagner still sells the punches. Usualdisclaimer.J. Snider At 08:41 PM 11/29/99 -0500, LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 11/29/1999 3:00:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,oossg@vbe.com writes: To list,I would like to turn my own winding checks and was wondering if anyonecan help me find a source for nickel silver and if there is a way tomake a hex shaped opening?Scott >> Contact Busby Metals at 1-800-552-8729 They carry Nickel Silver Bar stock 12% leaded. This iswhat I use for winding checks. As far as making hex shaped winding checks, there is one guy out there who makes hex shapedpunches, but I can't remember his name at the moment. I'm sure someone on the list will remember who he is. Dave LeClair from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Nov 29 20:13:31 1999 Subject: Re: Nickel Silver In a message dated 11/29/1999 9:10:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, sniderja@email.uc.edu writes: Jeff Wagner, that's the guy. Dave L from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Nov 29 20:15:53 1999 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP Mon, 29 Nov 1999 18:15:50 -0800 "tonkin@xtn.net" "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: hardener This is the classic finishing technique - rottenstone and paraffin oilmixture.Use a felt block to polish out the finish. Today people are choosing to usesome ofthe newer synthetic materials (this is what George Maurer Sells) that arereadily availat most automotive paint stores. Chris On Mon, 29 Nov 1999 20:56:05 -0500, tonkin wrote: Jerry, You mentioned a Rotton Stone mixture. What does the mixture consist of? Jerry Snider wrote: Sorry, Bob, this is not a response to your inquiry. However, itseemed to be the only way I could get my message online.Recent discussions have evolved around producing a final finish--someof you sand and follow up with a polish. I know that George Mauersells (sold?) a polish kit, but I have been unable to make contactregarding purchasing such. I have also searched the archives tolittle avail regarding polishing after final sanding. I have recentlyread in wood finishing books that fine grades of auto buffingcompounds are typically used, rather than going through the trouble ofmaking up a mixture of rottenstone, etc.Any comments on what some of you use for final polishing the sandedfinish? Sources of such?TIAJ. SniderAt 06:04 AM 11/29/1999 - 0600, Bob Nunley wrote: Can anyone give me a source for Ammonium Chloride? I would like tobuy a small quantity to try as a replacement for the hardener(powdered walnut shells and ammonium chloride) provided with URAC.Also, if you don't mind, the "recipe" for the mix! Thanks in advance,Bob from edriddle@mindspring.com Mon Nov 29 20:22:42 1999 Subject: Alcohol Lamp boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0086_01BF3AAF.B3EB66E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0086_01BF3AAF.B3EB66E0 GMA:Cabelas. Page 73 of their 1999 Fly Fishing catalog. Part # TZ-31-1417 @=$9.95. call 1-800-237-4444.Ed-----Original Message-----From: nobler rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Monday, November 29, 1999 5:12 PMSubject: Re: Gloves I recently found a Cabella's fishing gear catalog, I'd forgotten I =had. However, I can find nothing about alcohol lamps in it ! Can one of =you give me a page number ? Thanks, GMA Sent: Monday, November 29, 1999 3:39 PMSubject: RE: Gloves That may be so in theory, however, I just spent an hour =yesterdaystraightening nodes over an alcohol lamp with leather gloves and =my thumbsare unscathed. I also experimented straightening one node with =my hands andthe next by pressing it in a vise. I didn't see that the vise =was anyquicker, nor did it do a better job, and in fact I had a lot =more controlusing my fingers. I like using the alcohol lamp, by the way, =because it islo-tech, cheap and quick.-----Original Message-----From: Art Port [SMTP:anglport@con2.com]Sent: Monday, November 29, 1999 3:44 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Gloves Speaking of heat treating, I don't know if I'm parroting =something Ilearned here or bringing something new to the table, but.....I saw somewhere that you don't want to use leather gloves to =handle hotthings as by the time the heat gets through them, you'll be =burned beforeyou can get them off. Apparently they hold the heat and keep =it next toyouso that you'll get burned before you can do anything to stop =it. I thinkitwas a site on welding that gave the warning....Art ------=_NextPart_000_0086_01BF3AAF.B3EB66E0 GMA: 1-800-237-4444.Ed -----Original = =SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us =<SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us&g= rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= GlovesI recently found a Cabella's fishing = I'd forgotten I had. However, I can find nothing about alcohol lamps = Can one of you give me a page number ? Thanks, GMA ----- Original Message ----- = Seth Steinzor Sent: Monday, November = 3:39 PMSubject: RE: GlovesThat may be so in theory, however, I just spent = yesterdaystraightening nodes over an alcohol lamp with = straightening one node with my hands andthe next by pressing = fiveside@net- Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= get them off. Apparently they hold the heat and keep it next = ------=_NextPart_000_0086_01BF3AAF.B3EB66E0-- from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Mon Nov 29 20:48:23 1999 Subject: Re: Alcohol Lamp boundary="----=_NextPart_000_03DC_01BF3AB3.3B32B880" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_03DC_01BF3AB3.3B32B880 Or you could go to www.cabelas.com and select fishing: rods: rod =building: Alcohol burner. Paul Sent: Monday, November 29, 1999 9:21 PMSubject: Alcohol Lamp GMA:Cabelas. Page 73 of their 1999 Fly Fishing catalog. Part # TZ-31-1417 =@ $9.95. call 1-800-237-4444.Ed-----Original Message-----From: nobler rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Monday, November 29, 1999 5:12 PMSubject: Re: Gloves I recently found a Cabella's fishing gear catalog, I'd forgotten I =had. However, I can find nothing about alcohol lamps in it ! Can one of =you give me a page number ? Thanks, GMA Sent: Monday, November 29, 1999 3:39 PMSubject: RE: Gloves That may be so in theory, however, I just spent an hour yesterdaystraightening nodes over an alcohol lamp with leather gloves and =my thumbsare unscathed. I also experimented straightening one node with my =hands andthe next by pressing it in a vise. I didn't see that the vise was =anyquicker, nor did it do a better job, and in fact I had a lot more =controlusing my fingers. I like using the alcohol lamp, by the way, =because it islo-tech, cheap and quick.-----Original Message-----From: Art Port [SMTP:anglport@con2.com]Sent: Monday, November 29, 1999 3:44 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Gloves Speaking of heat treating, I don't know if I'm parroting =something Ilearned here or bringing something new to the table, but.....I saw somewhere that you don't want to use leather gloves to =handle hotthings as by the time the heat gets through them, you'll be =burned beforeyou can get them off. Apparently they hold the heat and keep it =next toyouso that you'll get burned before you can do anything to stop it. =I thinkitwas a site on welding that gave the warning....Art ------=_NextPart_000_03DC_01BF3AB3.3B32B880 Or you could go to www.cabelas.com and selectfishing: = building: Alcohol burner. Paul ----- Original Message ----- Riddle Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Monday, November 29, 1999= PMSubject: Alcohol Lamp GMA: 1-800-237-4444.Ed -----Original = =SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us =<SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us&g= rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= GlovesI recently found a Cabella's fishing = I'd forgotten I had. However, I can find nothing about alcohol lamps = Can one of you give me a page number ? Thanks, GMA ----- Original Message ----- = Seth Steinzor Sent: Monday, November 29, = PMSubject: RE: GlovesThat may be so in theory, however, I just spent an = yesterdaystraightening nodes over an alcohol lamp with leather = one node with my hands andthe next by pressing it in a = didn't see that the vise was anyquicker, nor did it do a = using the alcohol lamp, by the way, because it islo-tech, = =fiveside@net- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= get them off. Apparently they hold the heat and keep it next = ------=_NextPart_000_03DC_01BF3AB3.3B32B880-- from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon Nov 29 20:58:49 1999 Subject: Re: Nodeless question. *WARNING* message also containsfishfest in NZ verbage 9A7C44EFD3C19CA59A247DD5" --------------9A7C44EFD3C19CA59A247DD5 Tony,I am not convinced that epoxy is the way to go. I once experimented withthe "West epoxy system" on a two tip rod. The first tip I tried tostraighten delaminated and I was told by West that the epoxy was notvery heat resistant.I put the other tip and the butt section in a corner with a lot of otherstuff and forgot about them. A couple of years later when having a rareclean up I found the sections and put a moderate bend into them and theyall delaminated cleanly!I know Epon is is not West epoxy but the formulation must be similar.I find it difficult to understand why rodmakers should turn their backson adhesives with a recorded history of success in rodmaking over manyyears for a product with no real track record.I only hope that Epoxy does not break down after a period of time.Terry Tony Young wrote: The cheep little metal ones are all you need, when I used clamps Iused 3 per scarf on 1:21 scarfs or you could just bind them as I nowdo.One thing I might mention though is check your glue before getting toocarried away with it all.I've made quite a few nodeless rods without mishap until...........I made three rods from the one pot of glue which I bought as ShellEpon and the hardener which HAS always been great, no problems at allhowever while I was making these last few rods all in a 10 day periodI noticed a couple of scarfs failed. I put this down as what we usedto call in the computer support game an "error code 69" or a userfault. I replaced the splines with the problems and made the rods. While in NZ I caught a lot of decent sized fish with my newly madenodeless Driggs, one quite good sized one in a stream with a strongcurrent which took a while to land and I noticed when it was overthere were scarves popping in the butt and the tip.I just packed it away and continued fishing using my 3 piece WC 7'6 #5which is also nodeless and is about 3 years old mades with Resorcinoland has also caught some decent fish and did so on this trip also.This rod is still going (hint there as to how this story ends). Got to Ian Kearneys' place which was the first place I was able towalk around without being swarmed by West Coast sand flys for 6 dayswhen I hiked up Lake Rotoriti and fished the Travers river and it'sstreams. I did this alone and didn't see another person the entiretime so I figured it was my duty to fish this system and fish it hardbecause there were so many trout there and bad as the job was somebodyjust had to do it! ;-)Anyhow, while lawn at Ian's, Ian gave the Driggs a cast and the tipsnapped because a scarf failed. I just hate the sound of snappingtips.I was casting Ian's Guide Special at the time, picking up 30 feet ofline in front of me and shooting it plus as much line I though I couldhandle with a single back cast. Superb taper that. Almost makes youwonder why you'd bother with any other 8' ish #7 rods really. Ifyou've ever considered this taper, build it. Anyhow, the point is this:Nodeless rods work great as long as the glue is up to it. I was usingglue that as far as I was concerned was Shell Epon, I think it waseither NOT in fact Shell Epon or it was in some way contaminated or itwas skimed from the top or bottom of a drum that may have settled orsomething else I can't think of.Even though I'll be seeing the bloke I got this stuff from andadvising him of my thoughts of his glue this ALMOST ruined a fishingtrip, happily it broke in the afternoon of the day I caught my lastfish for the trip in the walk out to my car to drive up to Ian's..Just to rub it in this fish was caught right at the jetty of thetourist section of the lake 30 feet from my car. Shell Epon is great glue, I am in no way angling towards saying itisn't nor am I suggesting nodeless construction is in any wayproblematical. As I wrote I suspect something has happened at thelocal suppliers end. I will get more Epon from a different source andcontinue to use it.UF glues will also work for the scarfs as will Resorcinol which iswhat my WC 3 piece 7'5 #5 is made from and it's fine. Just as an aside, you have to give the Kiwis their due. They arehandeling the things that matter like the enviroment and public accesswithout sacrificing what people are going there for and you get thedistint feeling they would do whatever it takes to keep it that way.The Kiwis are inteligent people with a lot of energy who understandthough still seem a bit unaware of just what they have going thereand it shows in the country side and the abundance of game there, thepoliticians all seem to need a good kick up the back-side but thatjust proves nowhere is perfect. decided is a mystery to me) you'll find that while driving alongyou'll almost always be able to access a stretch you'd like to fish,if not an access point is never far away. There is public land andpermission to fish it must be obtained but I never fished anywhereother than public access points. Do be aware that electric fencesabound so if you cross a fence that is not set up with a cross overyou may well experience an unexpected sensation you could do without.Also, if you go to the West Coast make sure you take insect repelent.I'd suggest Rid. This stuff is said to be dangerous is used for aprolonged period but it seems the best IMHO. The sand flys areamazing. I used to live in Brisbane and make regular trips to NZ to fish asthere are no trout with an 8-10 hr hard drive from Brisbane and it wasbetter to just forget about fishing trout localy and make a couple oftrips a year to the North Island. The fishing has always been great inNZ so I was expecting good things but I was unprepared for just howgood the fishing has become in the 10 odd years since I moved to Perthand made my first trip there since.The Kiwis have done an excellent job of management, access is deadeasy. I fished at least 15 public access points on the Owen Riverbetween Murchison and the turn off to St Arnaud where Lake Roteriti isand caught 5-6 good sized fish on this 30km (approx 20 miles) allwithin sight of my car and this is fairly well fished so I'll leave itto your imagination as to what it was like where I hiked 20kms intothe Travers valley. To mention how many I caught is a bit beside thepoint but every day I was there (6 days) I stoped fishing before thefish stoped hooking themselves simply because I had to be back to campbefore it was too dark to see my way back wading in the dark.If you can make it there and don't you will have missed somethingworth doing in possibly the last country with such easy access withfish worth chasing. You DONT need a guide. If you get to this area there is a guide/fly tyer in Merchison calledPeter Carty who charges $585 per day (approx $US 300) and right nextdoor to him is a wood turner. Stop by at the turners place and checkout the most incredible set of Wapiti antlers you' re likely to seeunless you hunt in Alaska or some where. I used to hunt these inFiordland so I've seen a few and seen some very nice mounted heads butnothing like these. There are three. One is a Red/Wapiti hibred and isthe bigest Red antlers I've seen with the top tines being able to holda whole bottle within them, not just a wine glass, one Wapiti that isjust huge and the other that is stagering. I'd estimate the top tineis about 7 feet from the head. How this animal got around the forrestis a puzzle. The wood turner's Dad shot this from about 50 yards whileshooting possums! with a .303 in 1927. Thanks very much to Ian for his hospitality and his detailed advise onfishing spots around Nelson which is yet another major area for atroutfest. Tony At 10:46 PM 11/28/99 -0800, you wrote: I have built 12 rods conventional style and want to build my nextone nodeless. What kind of spring clamps do people reccommend? I'veseen one reference to 1" spring clamps. Is this the way to go? Ifigure I need at least 18-25. Any sources would also be appreciated.Thanks *************************************************************************/AVYoung Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Andthis our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, booksin running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. WilliamShakespeare, As You Like It /************* ***********************************************************/ --------------9A7C44EFD3C19CA59A247DD5 Tony,I am not convinced that epoxy is the way to go. I once experimentedwith the "West epoxy system" on a two tip rod. The first tip I tried tostraighten delaminated and I was told by West that the epoxy was not veryheat resistant.I put the other tip and the butt section in a corner with a lot ofother stuff and forgot about them. A couple of years later when havinga rare clean up I found the sections and put a moderate bend into themand they all delaminated cleanly!I know Epon is is not West epoxy but the formulation must be similar.I find it difficult to understand why rodmakers should turn theirbacks many years for a product with no real track record.I only hope that Epoxy does not break down after a period of time.Terry Tony Young wrote: need,when I used clamps I used 3 per scarf on 1:21 scarfs or you could justbind them as I now do.One thing I might mention though is check your glue before gettingtoo carried away with it all.I've made quite a few nodeless rods without mishap until...........I made three rods from the one pot of glue which I bought as ShellEpon and the hardener which HAS always been great, no problems at allhoweverwhile I was making these last few rods all in a 10 day period I noticeda couple of scarfs failed. I put this down as what we used to call in thecomputer support game an "error code 69" or a user fault. I replaced thesplines with the problems and made the rods. While in NZ I caught a lot of decent sized fish with my newly madenodelessDriggs, one quite good sized one in a stream with a strong current whichtook a while to land and I noticed when it was over there were scarvespopping in the butt and the tip.I just packed it away and continued fishing using my 3 piece WC 7'6#5 which is also nodeless and is about 3 years old mades with Resorcinoland has also caught some decent fish and did so on this trip also. Thisrod is still going (hint there as to how this story ends). Got to Ian Kearneys' place which was the first place I was able to walkaround without being swarmed by West Coast sand flys for 6 days when Ihiked up Lake Rotoriti and fished the Travers river and it's streams. I figured it was my duty to fish this system and fish it hard because therewere so many trout there and bad as the job was somebody just had to do tip snapped because a scarf failed. I just hate the sound of snapping tips.I was casting Ian's Guide Special at the time, picking up 30 feet ofline in front of me and shooting it plus as much line I though I couldhandle with a single back cast. Superb taper that. Almost makes youwonderwhy you'd bother with any other 8' ish #7 rods really. If you've everconsideredthis taper, build it. Anyhow, the point is this:Nodeless rods work great as long as the glue is up to it. I was usingglue that as far as I was concerned was Shell Epon, I think it was eitherNOT in fact Shell Epon or it was in some way contaminated or it wasskimed from the top or bottom of a drum that may have settled or something elseI can't think of.Even though I'll be seeing the bloke I got this stuff from and advisinghim of my thoughts of his glue this ALMOST ruined a fishing trip, happilyit broke in the afternoon of the day I caught my last fish for the tripin the walk out to my car to drive up to Ian's.. Just to rub it in thisfish was caught right at the jetty of the tourist section of the lake 30feet from my car. Shell Epon is great glue, I am in no way angling towards saying it isn'tnor am I suggesting nodeless construction is in any way problematical.As I wrote I suspect something has happened at the local suppliers end.I will get more Epon from a different source and continue to use it.UF glues will also work for the scarfs as will Resorcinol which iswhat my WC 3 piece 7'5 #5 is made from and it's fine. Just as an aside, you have to give the Kiwis their due. They arehandelingthe things that matter like the enviroment and public access withoutsacrificingwhat people are going there for and you get the distint feeling they woulddo whatever it takes to keep it that way. The Kiwis are inteligent peoplewith a lot of energy who understand though still seem a bit unaware just what they have going there and it shows in the country side and theabundance of game there, the politicians all seem to need a good kick upthe back-side but that just proves nowhere is perfect. decidedis a mystery to me) you'll find that while driving along you'll almostalways be able to access a stretch you'd like to fish, if not an accesspoint is never far away. There is public land and permission to fish itmust be obtained but I never fished anywhere other than public accesspoints.Do be aware that electric fences abound so if you cross a fence that isnot set up with a cross over you may well experience an unexpectedsensationyou could do without.Also, if you go to the West Coast make sure you take insect repelent.I'd suggest Rid. This stuff is said to be dangerous is used for a prolongedperiod but it seems the best IMHO. The sand flys are amazing. I used to live in Brisbane and make regular trips to NZ to fish as thereare no trout with an 8-10 hr hard drive from Brisbane and it was betterto just forget about fishing trout localy and make a couple of trips ayear to the North Island. The fishing has always been great in NZ so Iwas expecting good things but I was unprepared for just how good thefishinghas become in the 10 odd years since I moved to Perth and made my firsttrip there since.The Kiwis have done an excellent job of management, access is deadeasy. I fished at least 15 public access points on the Owen River betweenMurchison and the turn off to St Arnaud where Lake Roteriti is and caught5-6 good sized fish on this 30km (approx 20 miles) all within sight ofmy car and this is fairly well fished so I'll leave it to your imaginationas to what it was like where I hiked 20kms into the Travers valley. Tomention how many I caught is a bit beside the point but every day I wasthere (6 days) I stoped fishing before the fish stoped hooking themselvessimply because I had to be back to camp before it was too dark to see myway back wading in the dark.If you can make it there and don't you will have missed somethingworthdoing in possibly the last country with such easy access with fish worthchasing. You DONT need a guide. If you get to this area there is a guide/fly tyer in Merchison calledPeter Carty who charges $585 per day (approx $US 300) and right nextdoorto him is a wood turner. Stop by at the turners place and check out themost incredible set of Wapiti antlers you' re likely to see unless youhunt in Alaska or some where. I used to hunt these in Fiordland so I'veseen a few and seen some very nice mounted heads but nothing like these.There are three. One is a Red/Wapiti hibred and is the bigest Red antlersI've seen with the top tines being able to hold a whole bottle within them,not just a wine glass, one Wapiti that is just huge and the other thatis stagering. I'd estimate the top tine is about 7 feet from the head.How this animal got around the forrest is a puzzle. The wood turner's Dadshot this from about 50 yards while shooting possums! with a .303 in1927. Thanks very much to Ian for his hospitality and his detailed adviseon fishing spots around Nelson which is yet another major area for atroutfest. Tony At 10:46 PM 11/28/99 -0800, you wrote:I have built 12 rodsconventionalstyle and want to build my next one nodeless. What kind of spring clampsdo people reccommend? I've seen one reference to 1" spring clamps. Is thisthe way to go? I figure I need at least 18-25. Any sources would also beappreciated. Thanks this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books inrunning brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in /*************************************************************************/ --------------9A7C44EFD3C19CA59A247DD5-- from morten@flash.net Mon Nov 29 21:05:02 1999 RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Nickel Silver The hexagonal punch can be made by cutting the short end off an allenwrech, and then taper the hexagonal bar with a file.Morten Lovstad -- 3119 Georgia Pine Dr.Spring, TX 77373(281) 353 5725http://www.flash.net/~morten from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Nov 29 21:24:10 1999 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 11:23:08 +0800 Subject: Re: Nickel Silver RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Morten,brilliant! Tony At 09:11 PM 11/29/99 -0600, Morten Lovstad wrote:The hexagonal punch can be made by cutting the short end off an allenwrech, and then taper the hexagonal bar with a file.Morten Lovstad -- 3119 Georgia Pine Dr.Spring, TX 77373(281) 353 5725http://www.flash.net/~morten /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Nov 29 21:24:47 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Mon, 29 Nov 1999 21:16:45 -0600 Subject: Re: Nodeless question. *WARNING* message also contains fishfest in NZ verbage boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0058_01BF3AB0.292048E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01BF3AB0.292048E0 Saying EPOXY is like saying FRUIT ! There are so many kinds ! The epoxy =that holds the tiles on the space shuttle withstands 3000 degrees plus ! GMA Sent: Monday, November 29, 1999 9:02 PMSubject: Re: Nodeless question. *WARNING* message also contains =fishfest in NZ verbage I am not convinced that epoxy is the way to go. I once experimented =with the "West epoxy system" on a two tip rod. The first tip I tried to =straighten delaminated and I was told by West that the epoxy was not = I put the other tip and the butt section in a corner with a lot of =other stuff and forgot about them. A couple of years later when having a =rare clean up I found the sections and put a moderate bend into them and = I find it difficult to understand why rodmakers should turn their =backs on adhesives with a recorded history of success in rodmaking over= The cheep little metal ones are all you need, when I used clamps I =used 3 per scarf on 1:21 scarfs or you could just bind them as I now do. = One thing I might mention though is check your glue before getting = I made three rods from the one pot of glue which I bought as Shell =Epon and the hardener which HAS always been great, no problems at all =however while I was making these last few rods all in a 10 day period I =noticed a couple of scarfs failed. I put this down as what we used to =call in the computer support game an "error code 69" or a user fault. I = While in NZ I caught a lot of decent sized fish with my newly made =nodeless Driggs, one quite good sized one in a stream with a strong =current which took a while to land and I noticed when it was over there = I just packed it away and continued fishing using my 3 piece WC 7'6 =#5 which is also nodeless and is about 3 years old mades with Resorcinol=and has also caught some decent fish and did so on this trip also. This = Got to Ian Kearneys' place which was the first place I was able to =walk around without being swarmed by West Coast sand flys for 6 days =when I hiked up Lake Rotoriti and fished the Travers river and it's =streams. I did this alone and didn't see another person the entire time =so I figured it was my duty to fish this system and fish it hard because =there were so many trout there and bad as the job was somebody just had= Anyhow, while lawn at Ian's, Ian gave the Driggs a cast and the tip = I was casting Ian's Guide Special at the time, picking up 30 feet of =line in front of me and shooting it plus as much line I though I could =handle with a single back cast. Superb taper that. Almost makes you =wonder why you'd bother with any other 8' ish #7 rods really. If you've = Nodeless rods work great as long as the glue is up to it. I was =using glue that as far as I was concerned was Shell Epon, I think it was =either NOT in fact Shell Epon or it was in some way contaminated or it =was skimed from the top or bottom of a drum that may have settled or = Even though I'll be seeing the bloke I got this stuff from and =advising him of my thoughts of his glue this ALMOST ruined a fishing =trip, happily it broke in the afternoon of the day I caught my last fish = rub it in this fish was caught right at the jetty of the tourist section = Shell Epon is great glue, I am in no way angling towards saying it =isn't nor am I suggesting nodeless construction is in any way =problematical. As I wrote I suspect something has happened at the local =suppliers end. I will get more Epon from a different source and continue = UF glues will also work for the scarfs as will Resorcinol which is = Just as an aside, you have to give the Kiwis their due. They are =handeling the things that matter like the enviroment and public access =without sacrificing what people are going there for and you get the =distint feeling they would do whatever it takes to keep it that way. The =Kiwis are inteligent people with a lot of energy who understand though =still seem a bit unaware of just what they have going there and it =shows in the country side and the abundance of game there, the =politicians all seem to need a good kick up the back-side but that just = decided is a mystery to me) you'll find that while driving along you'll =almost always be able to access a stretch you'd like to fish, if not an =access point is never far away. There is public land and permission to =fish it must be obtained but I never fished anywhere other than public =access points. Do be aware that electric fences abound so if you cross a =fence that is not set up with a cross over you may well experience an = Also, if you go to the West Coast make sure you take insect =repelent. I'd suggest Rid. This stuff is said to be dangerous is used = I used to live in Brisbane and make regular trips to NZ to fish as =there are no trout with an 8-10 hr hard drive from Brisbane and it was =better to just forget about fishing trout localy and make a couple of =trips a year to the North Island. The fishing has always been great in =NZ so I was expecting good things but I was unprepared for just how good=the fishing has become in the 10 odd years since I moved to Perth and = The Kiwis have done an excellent job of management, access is dead =easy. I fished at least 15 public access points on the Owen River =between Murchison and the turn off to St Arnaud where Lake Roteriti is =and caught 5-6 good sized fish on this 30km (approx 20 miles) all within =sight of my car and this is fairly well fished so I'll leave it to your =imagination as to what it was like where I hiked 20kms into the Travers =valley. To mention how many I caught is a bit beside the point but every =day I was there (6 days) I stoped fishing before the fish stoped hooking =themselves simply because I had to be back to camp before it was too = If you can make it there and don't you will have missed something =worth doing in possibly the last country with such easy access with fish = If you get to this area there is a guide/fly tyer in Merchison =called Peter Carty who charges $585 per day (approx $US 300) and right =next door to him is a wood turner. Stop by at the turners place and =check out the most incredible set of Wapiti antlers you' re likely to =see unless you hunt in Alaska or some where. I used to hunt these in =Fiordland so I've seen a few and seen some very nice mounted heads but =nothing like these. There are three. One is a Red/Wapiti hibred and is =the bigest Red antlers I've seen with the top tines being able to hold a =whole bottle within them, not just a wine glass, one Wapiti that is just =huge and the other that is stagering. I'd estimate the top tine is about =7 feet from the head. How this animal got around the forrest is a =puzzle. The wood turner's Dad shot this from about 50 yards while = Thanks very much to Ian for his hospitality and his detailed advise =on fishing spots around Nelson which is yet another major area for a = I have built 12 rods conventional style and want to build my next =one nodeless. What kind of spring clamps do people reccommend? I've seen=one reference to 1" spring clamps. Is this the way to go? I figure I =need at least 18-25. Any sources would also be appreciated. Thanks =/************************************************************************=*/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html=And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, =books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. = =/************************************************************************=*/ ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01BF3AB0.292048E0 Saying EPOXY is like saying FRUIT ! There = kinds ! The epoxy that holds the tiles on the space shuttle withstands = degrees plus ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- ACKLAND Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Monday, November 29, 1999= PMSubject: Re: Nodeless question. = message also contains fishfest in NZ verbageTony, I am not convinced that epoxy is the way to = once experimented with the "West epoxy system" on a two tip rod. The = I tried to straighten delaminated and I was told by West that the = not very heat resistant. I put the other tip and the butt section = corner with a lot of other stuff and forgot about them. A couple of = later when having a rare clean up I found the sections and put a = into them and they all delaminated cleanly! I know Epon is is not = understand why rodmakers should turn their backs on adhesives with a = real track record. I only hope that Epoxy does not break down = when I used clamps I used 3 per scarf on 1:21 scarfs or you could = them as I now do. One thing I might mention though is check your = before getting too carried away with it all. I've made quite a = nodeless rods without mishap until........... I made three rods = one pot of glue which I bought as Shell Epon and the hardener which = always been great, no problems at all however while I was making = few rods all in a 10 day period I noticed a couple of scarfs failed. = this down as what we used to call in the computer support game an = code 69" or a user fault. I replaced the splines with the problems = While in NZ I caught a lot of decent sized fish with my newly = nodeless Driggs, one quite good sized one in a stream with a strong = which took a while to land and I noticed when it was over there were = popping in the butt and the tip. I just packed it away and = fishing using my 3 piece WC 7'6 #5 which is also nodeless and is = years old mades with Resorcinol and has also caught some decent fish = so on this trip also. This rod is still going (hint there as to how = Got to Ian Kearneys' place which was the first place I was able = around without being swarmed by West Coast sand flys for 6 days when= up Lake Rotoriti and fished the Travers river and it's streams. I = was my duty to fish this system and fish it hard because there were = tip snapped because a scarf failed. I just hate the sound of = I was casting Ian's Guide Special at the time, picking up 30 = line in front of me and shooting it plus as much line I though I = handle with a single back cast. Superb taper that. Almost makes you = why you'd bother with any other 8' ish #7 rods really. If you've = Anyhow, the point is this: Nodeless rods work great as long = glue is up to it. I was using glue that as far as I was concerned = Epon, I think it was either NOT in fact Shell Epon or it was in some = contaminated or it was skimed from the top or bottom of a drum that = settled or something else I can't think of. Even though I'll be = the bloke I got this stuff from and advising him of my thoughts of = this ALMOST ruined a fishing trip, happily it broke in the afternoon = day I caught my last fish for the trip in the walk out to my car to = to Ian's.. Just to rub it in this fish was caught right at the jetty = Shell Epon is great glue, I am in no way angling towards saying = nor am I suggesting nodeless construction is in any way = wrote I suspect something has happened at the local suppliers end. I = get more Epon from a different source and continue to use it. UF = will also work for the scarfs as will Resorcinol which is what my WC = handeling the things that matter like the enviroment and public = without sacrificing what people are going there for and you get the = feeling they would do whatever it takes to keep it that way. The = inteligent people with a lot of energy who understand though still = country side and the abundance of game there, the politicians all = need a good kick up the back-side but that just proves nowhere is = is a mystery to me) you'll find that while driving along you'll = always be able to access a stretch you'd like to fish, if not an = point is never far away. There is public land and permission to fish = be obtained but I never fished anywhere other than public access = be aware that electric fences abound so if you cross a fence that is = up with a cross over you may well experience an unexpected sensation = could do without. Also, if you go to the West Coast make sure = insect repelent. I'd suggest Rid. This stuff is said to be dangerous = I used to live in Brisbane and make regular trips to NZ to fish = are no trout with an 8-10 hr hard drive from Brisbane and it was = just forget about fishing trout localy and make a couple of trips a = the North Island. The fishing has always been great in NZ so I was = good things but I was unprepared for just how good the fishing has = the 10 odd years since I moved to Perth and made my first trip there = The Kiwis have done an excellent job of management, access is = Murchison and the turn off to St Arnaud where Lake Roteriti is and = 5-6 good sized fish on this 30km (approx 20 miles) all within sight = car and this is fairly well fished so I'll leave it to your = to what it was like where I hiked 20kms into the Travers valley. To = how many I caught is a bit beside the point but every day I was = days) I stoped fishing before the fish stoped hooking themselves = because I had to be back to camp before it was too dark to see my = wading in the dark. If you can make it there and don't you will = missed something worth doing in possibly the last country with such = If you get to this area there is a guide/fly tyer in Merchison = Peter Carty who charges $585 per day (approx $US 300) and right next = him is a wood turner. Stop by at the turners place and check out the = incredible set of Wapiti antlers you' re likely to see unless you = Alaska or some where. I used to hunt these in Fiordland so I've seen = and seen some very nice mounted heads but nothing like these. There = three. One is a Red/Wapiti hibred and is the bigest Red antlers I've = with the top tines being able to hold a whole bottle within them, = wine glass, one Wapiti that is just huge and the other that is = I'd estimate the top tine is about 7 feet from the head. How this = around the forrest is a puzzle. The wood turner's Dad shot this from = Thanks very much to Ian for his hospitality and his detailed = fishing spots around Nelson which is yet another major area for a = I have built 12 conventional style and want to build my next one nodeless. What = spring clamps do people reccommend? I've seen one reference to 1" = clamps. Is this the way to go? I figure I need at least 18-25. Any = = life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in = =/*********************************************************************= ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01BF3AB0.292048E0-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Nov 29 21:27:34 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Mon, 29 Nov 1999 21:19:29 -0600 Subject: Re: Nickel Silver boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0069_01BF3AB0.8AC848E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0069_01BF3AB0.8AC848E0 Good tip ! You can make such metal even harder, by heating red hot, and =quenching in oil. Or, using Casenite powder, can get it even harder. GMA Cc: LECLAIR123@aol.com ; oossg@vbe.com ; Sent: Monday, November 29, 1999 9:11 PMSubject: Re: Nickel Silver The hexagonal punch can be made by cutting the short end off an allenwrech, and then taper the hexagonal bar with a file. 3119 Georgia Pine Dr.Spring, TX 77373(281) 353 5725http://www.flash.net/~morten ------=_NextPart_000_0069_01BF3AB0.8AC848E0 Good tip ! You can make such metal even = heating red hot, and quenching in oil. Or, using Casenite powder, can = even harder. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Morten = Cc: LECLAIR123@aol.com ; oossg@vbe.com =; RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Monday, November 29, 1999= PMSubject: Re: Nickel =SilverThe hexagonal punch can be made by cutting the short = allenwrech, and then taper the hexagonal bar with a = Lovstad -- 3119 Georgia Pine Dr.Spring, TX 77373(281)= 5725http://www.flash.net/~morten ------=_NextPart_000_0069_01BF3AB0.8AC848E0-- from EESweet@aol.com Mon Nov 29 23:49:13 1999 Subject: Re: Nodeless question. *WARNING* message also contains fishfestinNZ verbage Tony,Sounds like you had an even better time in NZ than I did! I believe I missed you at Ian's by only a couple of days, maybe next time. I can vouch for what you said about Ian's Guide Special, my friend'scomment was that it almost made casting too easy, but then he's a better casterthan I am... I was so impressed by it that I've modified the taper for a 5 weight and will be making it my next rod. Don't really need a 7 for these itty bitty California rainbows. Hmmm, think I've been spoiled by a week in NZ? I also found river access to be almost a non-issue while there. That andthe fact that you seem to cross a stream every 5 minutes while driving addeda great deal of contrast to fishing here. The Kiwi's have a great thing going, I hope they're able to maintain it. Wish I'd know about the sandflies before I left, now that's a nasty little critter.Eric from mrj@aa.net Tue Nov 30 00:14:07 1999 Mon, 29 Nov 1999 22:13:58 -0800 Subject: Re: Burl cork Be careful about what you get here. I bought "burl" cork years ago and whenit arrived it appeared to be basically cork shavings glued together.Actually it made a superior handle and was very easy to work with but Ididnot care for the aesthetics. Martin Jensen----- Original Message ----- Subject: Burl cork A general question about burl cork--I've never used it before, and I'mconsidering it for a rod handle--Do I need to take any specialprecautions when I'm shaping? It would seem that the defects that giveit its characteristic look would make for uneven shaping/sandingbecauseof hard spots and softer spots.Any advice? thanks, Greg from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Nov 30 01:09:05 1999 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 15:08:45 +0800 Subject: Re: Nodeless question. *WARNING* message also contains fishfest in NZ verbage types="text/plain,text/html";boundary="=====================_4639839==_.ALT" --=====================_4639839==_.ALT Terry,your point is taken broadly speaking except I know the Shell Epon I usedbeforethis batch worked without problems. To just use any old epoxy is to expectproblems.West System is great to use on boats and the Gougeon Bros. developed itwithboatbuilding in mind so failing with the application of heat is a desirablefeature of it as you need to shift bonded hardware from time to time andyoudont want to have to apply too much heat to release it. They mention thisintheir book where they recomend using an electric soldering iron to loosenscrews set in predrilled screw holes and the screw is diped in epoxy toensurethey dont move and to slow down corrosion or if epoxy is used as a beddingcompound which is a frightening thought.There are boats that I helped build in my apprenticeship 20 years backthatarestill going and were built using the cold moulded method so they are heldtogether with nothing but epoxy. Almost all the Brisbane City Ferrysconstructed in the last 25-30 years were built this way and these get alot ofuse 7 days a week 52 weeks of the year.You mustn't bond large peices of wood with epoxy ie. if you want to make alaminated beam 6" x 6" for eg you can expect disaster if you bond 3 x 2"planksto make up the 6" but you shouldn't have any problems at all if you use 12x1/2" laminates.If you want to bond big peieces of wood use Resorcinol and lots and lots ofclamps and maintain the tempreture within it's critical range.Also, I'm dubious with making masts and larger spars with epoxy becauseevenhollw masts have large pieces of wood being bonded across a relativelythinsection though there are plenty who do. No, I think in this case the problem is with the batch of glue OR what thegluein fact is.Just doing a post mortem on the failed tip it's plain that the poped scarvesare all on the guide face only.This is to be expected if it was to happen because of the forces duringcastingbecause I tend to double haul without intending to due to bad habitsdevelopedearly on.The splines are still bonded properly *ALONG THE LENGTH* everywhereexceptalong the scarf where the glue line seems to have crystalised and the bondhasfailed along the glue line, no bamboo has ruptured at this point. Also, theglue within the scarf has crystalised.I'm not a chemist so I'm only guessing but it looks as though there hasbeenslippage along the sheer lines which probably happens with all bamboorodswithout problems but in this case this sheer slippage at the scarfs hasallowedthe scarf to move across and along it's face as well as along the length ofthescarf and the glue has failed.My thinking is this slippage always occurs but the bond is sufficient toholdeverything together and once the scarf failed that spline was weakenedand thetip broke. Note though if I prise the splines apart away from the scarf thebond is strong enough to cause bamboo to fail rather than the glue so itseemsthe scarf causes a localised set of conditions different to the rest of thespline. Still, having all the splines delaminate as in your case is cause forworry. Isthis the section you tried heating to straighten? I wonder if heating thegluecauses a one way change to occur that while it seems to regain it's bond isnever as strong again? Tony At 10:02 PM 11/29/99 -0500, TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: Tony, I am not convinced that epoxy is the way to go. I once experimented withthe"West epoxy system" on a two tip rod. The first tip I tried to straightendelaminated and I was told by West that the epoxy was not very heatresistant. I put the other tip and the butt section in a corner with a lot of otherstuff and forgot about them. A couple of years later when having a rarecleanup I found the sections and put a moderate bend into them and they alldelaminated cleanly! I know Epon is is not West epoxy but the formulation must be similar. I find it difficult to understand why rodmakers should turn their backsonadhesives with a recorded history of success in rodmaking over manyyears I only hope that Epoxy does not break down after a period of time. Terry Tony Young wrote: The cheep little metal ones are all you need, when I used clamps I used3per scarf on 1:21 scarfs or you could just bind them as I now do. One thing I might mention though is check your glue before getting toocarried away with it all. I've made quite a few nodeless rods without mishap until........... I made three rods from the one pot of glue which I bought as Shell Eponandthe hardener which HAS always been great, no problems at all howeverwhile Iwas making these last few rods all in a 10 day period I noticed a coupleofscarfs failed. I put this down as what we used to call in the computersupport game an "error code 69" or a user fault. I replaced the splineswiththe problems and made the rods. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_4639839==_.ALT Terry,your point is taken broadly speaking except I know the Shell Epon I usedbefore this batch worked without problems. To just use any old epoxy isto expect problems.West System is great to use on boats and the Gougeon Bros. developed it is a desirable feature of it as you need to shift bonded hardware fromtime to time and you dont want to have to apply too much heat to releaseit. They mention this in their book where they recomend using an electricsoldering iron to loosen screws set in predrilled screw holes and thescrew is diped in epoxy to ensure they dont move and to slow downcorrosion or if epoxy is used as a bedding compound which is afrightening thought.There are boats that I helped build in my apprenticeship 20 years backthat are still going and were built using the cold moulded method so theyare held together with nothing but epoxy. Almost all the Brisbane CityFerrys constructed in the last 25-30 years were built this way and theseget a lot of use 7 days a week 52 weeks of the year.You mustn't bond large peices of wood with epoxy ie. if you want to makea laminated beam 6" x 6" for eg you can expect disaster if youbond 3 x 2" planks to make up the 6" but you shouldn't have anyproblems at all if you use 12 x 1/2" laminates.If you want to bond big peieces of wood use Resorcinol and lots and lotsof clamps and maintain the tempreture within it's critical range.Also, I'm dubious with making masts and larger spars with epoxy becauseeven hollw masts have large pieces of wood being bonded across arelatively thin section though there are plenty who do. No, I think in this case the problem is with the batch of glue OR whatthe glue in fact is.Just doing a post mortem on the failed tip it's plain that the popedscarves are all on the guide face only.This is to be expected if it was to happen because of the forces duringcasting because I tend to double haul without intending to due to badhabits developed early on.The splines are still bonded properly *ALONG THE LENGTH* everywhereexcept along the scarf where the glue line seems to have crystalised andthe bond has failed along the glue line, no bamboo has ruptured at thispoint. Also, the glue within the scarf has crystalised.I'm not a chemist so I'm only guessing but it looks as though there hasbeen slippage along the sheer lines which probably happens with allbamboo rods without problems but in this case this sheer slippage at thescarfs has allowed the scarf to move across and along it's face as wellas along the length of the scarf and the glue has failed.My thinking is this slippage always occurs but the bond is sufficient tohold everything together and once the scarf failed that spline wasweakened and the tip broke. Note though if I prise the splines apart away from the scarf the bond is strong enough to cause bamboo to fail ratherthan the glue so it seems the scarf causes a localised set of conditionsdifferent to the rest of the spline. Still, having all the splines delaminate as in your case is cause forworry. Is this the section you tried heating to straighten? I wonder ifheating the glue causes a one way change to occur that while it seems toregain it's bond is never as strong again? Tony At 10:02 PM 11/29/99 -0500, TERENCE ACKLAND wrote: Tony, I am not convinced that epoxy is the way to go. I once experimented withthe "West epoxy system" on a two tip rod. The first tip I triedto straighten delaminated and I was told by West that the epoxy was notvery heat resistant. I put the other tip and the butt section in a corner with a lot of otherstuff and forgot about them. A couple of years later when having a rareclean up I found the sections and put a moderate bend into them and theyall delaminated cleanly! I know Epon is is not West epoxy but the formulation must be similar. I find it difficult to understand why rodmakers should turn their backs many years for a product with no real track record. I only hope that Epoxy does not break down after a period of time. Terry Tony Young wrote: The cheep little metal ones are all you need,when I used clamps I used 3 per scarf on 1:21 scarfs or you could justbind them as I now do. One thing I might mention though is check your glue before getting toocarried away with it all. I've made quite a few nodeless rods without mishap until........... I made three rods from the one pot of glue which I bought as Shell Eponand the hardener which HAS always been great, no problems at all howeverwhile I was making these last few rods all in a 10 day period I noticed acouple of scarfs failed. I put this down as what we used to call in thecomputer support game an "error code 69" or a user fault. Ireplaced the splines with the problems and made the rods. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_4639839==_.ALT-- from mschaffer@mindspring.com Tue Nov 30 04:53:25 1999 Subject: Re: using allen wrenches for hex holes in winding checks Guys,Just a note about the use of allen wrenches. I've used them many times to'drift' a hex hole while blacksmithing. Initially I'll anneal the wrench byheating it red hot then bury it in lime to cool. Once cool, cut off thesmall end, taper the length of the long end either with a grinder or a mill,then reharden if necessary depending on the metal it is to be hammeredthrough.Next, select a drill bit who's diameter is that of the desired hex measured from flat to flat, drill a hole, then while supporting the piece from theback side, drift (hammer)your hex punch through the hole using a threadingtype oil as lubricant if done cold (most iron is drifted hot). Bingo, yougot it! Clean up with a file as required.One more quickie and I'll stop gabbing! ANYTIME you plan to hit a hardenedpiece of steel ie a punch or drift, two things to be VERY careful of(besides wearing protective glasses): 1. Be sure the punch/drift has beencrowned on the hitting surface, and 2. If the punch/drift has started tomushroom out on the striking end, cut off the mushroomed part, andrecrownbefore hitting further.Sorry about being so gabby this morning but it's early and I'm awake!!Take care, Mike from OBorge@aiss.uic.edu Tue Nov 30 05:25:23 1999 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 05:25:17 -0600 Subject: RE: Silk Line Varnish Harry,What did you use for varnish?I am in the process of doing the same thing.Baking soda really does remove the sticky stuff. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Silk Line Varnish Harry,Rev, the rag should be kept well soaked because you want the varnish topenetrate.You will never get the braid covered to the point of completesmoothness, even new lines aren't like that. As a matter of fact, thatroughness of the braid helps in the shoot (trust me on this...). One companyin Britain actually marketed a plastic line with small bumps to improvethecasting.Best regards,ReedP.S. - let us know what you think after you test drive your new line. Harry Boyd wrote: Friends,I'm in the process of restoring an old silk line I picked up onEbay. Reed Curry's excellent article on FlyAnglers Online has been agreat help. I never thought that baking soda trick would work so well!I'm putting new varnish on the line, and have applied 5 lightcoats. Here's my questions: When do I stop? How stiff should the linebe? Should I keep applying coats of varnish thill the finish is slick (I doubt it) or stop when the entire line seems to be well coated?As you might guess, I'm a complete novice with silk lines. At 41years of age, I cut my teeth on plastic lines, so any help isappreciated. Thanks,Harry from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Tue Nov 30 07:34:00 1999 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id HAA06478 for; (8.8.4/8.6.8) withSMTP id HAA20693 for ; Tue, 30 Nov 1999 Subject: Re: Gloves When I feel the need for a glove I use a cheap baseball battingglove. Its tight fitting with thin leather fingers and palm andfabric back. You have pretty good "feel" with it on. You canbuy either the right or left separately for 2- 3$US.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from rmoon@ida.net Tue Nov 30 07:40:15 1999 0000 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Silk Line Varnish Olaf I just cleaned a line last night with soda. It is amazing how well itworks.Ralph from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Tue Nov 30 09:29:35 1999 Subject: RE: Nodeless question. *WARNING* message also contains fishfestin NZ verbage Terry -- I'd appreciate knowing what adhesives you use. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Nodeless question. *WARNING* message also contains fishfestinNZ verbage Tony, I am not convinced that epoxy is the way to go. I once experimented withthe"West epoxy system" on a two tip rod. The first tip I tried to straightendelaminated and I was told by West that the epoxy was not very heatresistant. I put the other tip and the butt section in a corner with a lot of otherstuff and forgot about them. A couple of years later when having a rareclean up I found the sections and put a moderate bend into them and theyalldelaminated cleanly! I know Epon is is not West epoxy but the formulation must be similar. I find it difficult to understand why rodmakers should turn their backs onadhesives with a recorded history of success in rodmaking over manyyears I only hope that Epoxy does not break down after a period of time. Terry Tony Young wrote: The cheep little metal ones are all you need, when I used clamps I used 3per scarf on 1:21 scarfs or you could just bind them as I now do. One thing I might mention though is check your glue before getting toocarried away with it all. I've made quite a few nodeless rods without mishap until........... I made three rods from the one pot of glue which I bought as Shell Eponandthe hardener which HAS always been great, no problems at all howeverwhile Iwas making these last few rods all in a 10 day period I noticed a couple ofscarfs failed. I put this down as what we used to call in the computersupport game an "error code 69" or a user fault. I replaced the splines withthe problems and made the rods. While in NZ I caught a lot of decent sized fish with my newly madenodelessDriggs, one quite good sized one in a stream with a strong current whichtook a while to land and I noticed when it was over there were scarvespopping in the butt and the tip. I just packed it away and continued fishing using my 3 piece WC 7'6 #5whichis also nodeless and is about 3 years old mades with Resorcinol and hasalsocaught some decent fish and did so on this trip also. This rod is stillgoing (hint there as to how this story ends). Got to Ian Kearneys' place which was the first place I was able to walkaround without being swarmed by West Coast sand flys for 6 days when Ihikedup Lake Rotoriti and fished the Travers river and it's streams. I did thisalone and didn't see another person the entire time so I figured it was myduty to fish this system and fish it hard because there were so many troutthere and bad as the job was somebody just had to do it! ;-) Anyhow, while lawn at Ian's, Ian gave the Driggs a cast and the tipsnappedbecause a scarf failed. I just hate the sound of snapping tips. I was casting Ian's Guide Special at the time, picking up 30 feet of line infront of me and shooting it plus as much line I though I could handle with asingle back cast. Superb taper that. Almost makes you wonder why you'dbother with any other 8' ish #7 rods really. If you've ever considered thistaper, build it. Anyhow, the point is this: Nodeless rods work great as long as the glue is up to it. I was using gluethat as far as I was concerned was Shell Epon, I think it was either NOT infact Shell Epon or it was in some way contaminated or it was skimed fromthetop or bottom of a drum that may have settled or something else I can'tthink of. Even though I'll be seeing the bloke I got this stuff from and advising himof my thoughts of his glue this ALMOST ruined a fishing trip, happily itbroke in the afternoon of the day I caught my last fish for the trip in thewalk out to my car to drive up to Ian's.. Just to rub it in this fish wascaught right at the jetty of the tourist section of the lake 30 feet frommycar. Shell Epon is great glue, I am in no way angling towards saying it isn't noram I suggesting nodeless construction is in any way problematical. As Iwrote I suspect something has happened at the local suppliers end. I willget more Epon from a different source and continue to use it. UF glues will also work for the scarfs as will Resorcinol which is whatmyWC 3 piece 7'5 #5 is made from and it's fine. Just as an aside, you have to give the Kiwis their due. They are handelingthe things that matter like the enviroment and public access withoutsacrificing what people are going there for and you get the distint feelingthey would do whatever it takes to keep it that way. The Kiwis areinteligent people with a lot of energy who understand though still seem abit unaware of just what they have going there and it shows in thecountryside and the abundance of game there, the politicians all seem to need agood kick up the back-side but that just proves nowhere is perfect. a mystery to me) you'll find that while driving along you'll almost alwaysbe able to access a stretch you'd like to fish, if not an access point isnever far away. There is public land and permission to fish it must beobtained but I never fished anywhere other than public access points. Dobeaware that electric fences abound so if you cross a fence that is not setupwith a cross over you may well experience an unexpected sensation youcoulddo without. Also, if you go to the West Coast make sure you take insect repelent. I'dsuggest Rid. This stuff is said to be dangerous is used for a prolongedperiod but it seems the best IMHO. The sand flys are amazing. I used to live in Brisbane and make regular trips to NZ to fish as there areno trout with an 8-10 hr hard drive from Brisbane and it was better tojustforget about fishing trout localy and make a couple of trips a year to theNorth Island. The fishing has always been great in NZ so I was expectinggood things but I was unprepared for just how good the fishing has becomeinthe 10 odd years since I moved to Perth and made my first trip theresince. The Kiwis have done an excellent job of management, access is dead easy.Ifished at least 15 public access points on the Owen River betweenMurchisonand the turn off to St Arnaud where Lake Roteriti is and caught 5-6 goodsized fish on this 30km (approx 20 miles) all within sight of my car andthis is fairly well fished so I'll leave it to your imagination as to whatit was like where I hiked 20kms into the Travers valley. To mention howmanyI caught is a bit beside the point but every day I was there (6 days) Istoped fishing before the fish stoped hooking themselves simply because Ihad to be back to camp before it was too dark to see my way back wadinginthe dark. If you can make it there and don't you will have missed something worthdoing in possibly the last country with such easy access with fish worthchasing. You DONT need a guide. If you get to this area there is a guide/fly tyer in Merchison called PeterCarty who charges $585 per day (approx $US 300) and right next door tohimis a wood turner. Stop by at the turners place and check out the mostincredible set of Wapiti antlers you' re likely to see unless you hunt inAlaska or some where. I used to hunt these in Fiordland so I've seen a fewand seen some very nice mounted heads but nothing like these. There arethree. One is a Red/Wapiti hibred and is the bigest Red antlers I've seenwith the top tines being able to hold a whole bottle within them, not justawine glass, one Wapiti that is just huge and the other that is stagering.I'd estimate the top tine is about 7 feet from the head. How this animalgotaround the forrest is a puzzle. The wood turner's Dad shot this from about50 yards while shooting possums! with a .303 in 1927. Thanks very much to Ian for his hospitality and his detailed advise onfishing spots around Nelson which is yet another major area for atroutfest. Tony At 10:46 PM 11/28/99 -0800, you wrote: I have built 12 rods conventional style and want to build my next onenodeless. What kind of spring clamps do people reccommend? I've seen onereference to 1" spring clamps. Is this the way to go? I figure I need atleast 18-25. Any sources would also be appreciated. Thanks /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.htmlAnd this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermonsinstones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Nov 30 09:58:26 1999 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:58:20 -0800 Subject: Re: Gloves I'm with you, Ralph. I use finger cots when roughing out, becauseI'm really hogging off the shavings at about .015 - .020 per pass.Otherwise, the only time I use gloves is the first stages of splitting aculm into 6 or 8 pieces.Don't take this to mean that my hands are tough. In fact, mywife's hands are rougher than mine, one of the perils of living in a whitecollar world. But I'm not willing to sacrifice the sensitivity of myfingers for protection from a few cuts. Keep 'em sharper'n sharp, andholding the bamboo isn't so tough. When things begin to slip, I eitherre-sharpen, or re-straighten.Then again, I've had a few close calls, and one day soon you mayall be calling me "Lefty" -- and not for my casting prowess! Harry Ralph W Moon wrote: I have never liked to do any work with gloves, and heavy gloves forworking with bamboo are an anathema. from caneman@clnk.com Tue Nov 30 10:22:28 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Tue, 30 Nov 1999 10:20:36 -0600 Subject: Fw: Gloves I still have a pair of gloves that I used when I made my first rod. Lookslike they were ran through a meat slicer, but when I learned theimportanceif an EXTREMELY sharp plane blade (and a little technique on top of it) theneed for gloves disappeared. Oh, I still get the occasional cut, but rarelydo I bring blood. Usually now it is just surface cuts that do nothing morethan make my hands feel rougher than they already are. I have a baseballbatting glove in the drawer on my roughing bench, but haven't tried it yet.Today may be a good day!!! NAH, maybe tomorrow. I think I'll drag out thewaders and head to the stocker fishery for awhile! Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Gloves I'm with you, Ralph. I use finger cots when roughing out, becauseI'm really hogging off the shavings at about .015 - .020 per pass.Otherwise, the only time I use gloves is the first stages of splitting aculm into 6 or 8 pieces.Don't take this to mean that my hands are tough. In fact, mywife's hands are rougher than mine, one of the perils of living in a whitecollar world. But I'm not willing to sacrifice the sensitivity of myfingers for protection from a few cuts. Keep 'em sharper'n sharp, andholding the bamboo isn't so tough. When things begin to slip, I eitherre-sharpen, or re-straighten.Then again, I've had a few close calls, and one day soon you may>allbe calling me "Lefty" -- and not for my casting prowess! Harry from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Nov 30 11:41:13 1999 0000 1999 08:17:29 PST Subject: Re: Gloves CLOSE CALLS!!?? I'VE HAD A FEW NO-MISSES!! timothy Then again, I've had a few close calls, and ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com from gl@msrr.dmso.mil Tue Nov 30 14:13:02 1999 triton.dmso.mil(8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA03623 for ;Tue, 30 Nov 1999 Subject: bronzing guides does anyone have a practical at-home-in-the-basement method forbronzingguides? tks. gl--------------------gary mischcdr, usn (ret.) from anglport@con2.com Tue Nov 30 14:48:37 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A7B252E02EC; Tue, 30 Nov 1999 15:46:42 -0500 Subject: Re: using allen wrenches for hex holes in winding checks Mike,Thanks for the reminder. I have a friend who has a black dot in hisshin from using a mushrooomed wedge and a sledge to split firewood for hishome.Now he considers it a "war-wound" but I can remember him whining quiteabit about how stupid he felt after the shrapnel hit!These are the things we hear about but might forget when they'regermainto the situation!;-)Art At 06:05 AM 11/30/1999 -0500, Mike Shaffer wrote:Guys,Just a note about the use of allen wrenches. I've used them many times to'drift' a hex hole while blacksmithing. Initially I'll anneal the wrench byheating it red hot then bury it in lime to cool. Once cool, cut off thesmall end, taper the length of the long end either with a grinder or a mill,then reharden if necessary depending on the metal it is to be hammeredthrough.Next, select a drill bit who's diameter is that of the desired hexmeasured from flat to flat, drill a hole, then while supporting the piece from theback side, drift (hammer)your hex punch through the hole using athreadingtype oil as lubricant if done cold (most iron is drifted hot). Bingo, yougot it! Clean up with a file as required.One more quickie and I'll stop gabbing! ANYTIME you plan to hit ahardenedpiece of steel ie a punch or drift, two things to be VERY careful of(besides wearing protective glasses): 1. Be sure the punch/drift has beencrowned on the hitting surface, and 2. If the punch/drift has started tomushroom out on the striking end, cut off the mushroomed part, andrecrownbefore hitting further.Sorry about being so gabby this morning but it's early and I'm awake!!Take care, Mike *Some people can tell what time it is by looking at the sun, but I never have been able to make out the numbers.* from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Tue Nov 30 14:57:40 1999 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id JAA28058; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 09:57:15 +1300 Subject: Re: Nodeless question. *WARNING* message also containsfishfest inNZ verbage Eric, Dickerson also has a taper for a 5 weight "special" which is apparently avery powerfull rod of similar action to the #7 guide special. I am justmaking two of them for my older sons as a Christmas present and hope togetthem glued up by next weekend. I will let you know what they are like andcan send you the taper if you cannot find it. It is in Jack Howells book .regardsIan Kearney ps Did you catch any more fish on your trip ? At 12:48 AM 30/11/99 EST, EESweet@aol.com wrote:Tony,Sounds like you had an even better time in NZ than I did! I believe Imissed you at Ian's by only a couple of days, maybe next time. I can vouch for what you said about Ian's Guide Special, my friend'scomment was that it almost made casting too easy, but then he's a better casterthan I am... I was so impressed by it that I've modified the taper for a 5weight and will be making it my next rod. Don't really need a 7 for these itty bitty California rainbows. Hmmm, think I've been spoiled by a week inNZ? I also found river access to be almost a non-issue while there. That andthe fact that you seem to cross a stream every 5 minutes while driving addeda great deal of contrast to fishing here. The Kiwi's have a great thinggoing, I hope they're able to maintain it. Wish I'd know about the sandflies before I left, now that's a nasty little critter.Eric from fiveside@net-gate.com Tue Nov 30 18:06:03 1999 ns1.net-gate.com (8.9.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA17776 for; Subject: Gloves To the List,The depth of information available on this list is amazing. Thanks to all listed in the latest MSC flyer and probably also from people like Northernand Harbor Freight. If you don't like kevlar for rod making they can be used, I've discovered, from LECLAIR123@aol.com Tue Nov 30 18:18:39 1999 Subject: Re: bronzing guides In a message dated 11/30/1999 3:20:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, gl@msrr.dmso.mil writes: Most guides are stainless steel, and it is very difficult toplate stainless. First you must plate them with nickel, in aspecial solution that will stick to the stainless. Then you canbronze plate over the nickel. Only problem is, is that the solutions you must use, are composed of Cyanide chemicals.I don't think you would want to use this type of plating chemicalsin your home or garage. Take my word for it, I've been plating for the past 30 years,and these chemicals are not something to play around with. Dave LeClair from oakmere@carol.net Tue Nov 30 18:31:01 1999 Subject: RE: Hex Winding Checks Hi Folks: Information only. REC makes hex winding checks in limited sizes. FrankFrank Paul, GreyFox2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 29672fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work)oakmere@carol.net (home) from bob@downandacross.com Tue Nov 30 18:36:26 1999 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: Gloves and Tubes boundary="=====================_759608==_.ALT" --=====================_759608==_.ALT 1. Yes, they sure do know a lot more than I do. Thanks to all that responded to my question about tubes. Wow, I got too many leads. Anyway,I will let you guys know about the one I tried out. Tubes will be shipped by weeks end. Less than $20 for compartmentalized cordura covered PVCtubes with embroidered names and rod description. Sounds good, huh? Let mekeep it a secret until I see how they pan out. But my source is someone I have faith in. I will let you know.2. Also, I received my Bellinger Binder yesterday. Wow, what a great unit. I wrapped both butt and tip with no problem. They came out almoststraight, which I will take as a good start to manually straighten. I will attempt with glue tonight. I feel better about the rest of rod one knowing that I am not going to break strips or have bent up sections.3. I used Formby's Tung Oil ala Reed "the Silk Line Guru" Curry, and my silk came out great. Can't wait to fish it for a whole day. Need to track down some Red Mucillin. Best regards,Bob At 06:59 PM 11/30/99 -0500, you wrote:To the List,The depth of information available on this list is amazing. Thanks to all listed in the latest MSC flyer and probably also from people like Northernand Harbor Freight.If you don't like kevlar for rod making they can be used, I've discovered, Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com --=====================_759608==_.ALT 1. Yes, they sure do know a lot more than I do. Thanks to all thatresponded to my question about tubes. Wow, I got too many leads. Anyway,I will let you guys know about the one I tried out. Tubes will be shipped tubes with embroidered names and rod description. Sounds good, huh? Letme keep it a secret until I see how they pan out. But my source issomeone I have faith in. I will let you know.2. Also, I received my Bellinger Binder yesterday. Wow, what a greatunit. I wrapped both butt and tip with no problem. They came outalmost straight, which I will take as a good start to manuallystraighten. I will attempt with glue tonight. I feel better about therest of rod one knowing that I am not going to break strips or have bentup sections.3. I used Formby's Tung Oil ala Reed "the Silk Line Guru"Curry, and my silk came out great. Can't wait to fish it for a whole day.Need to track down some Red Mucillin. Best regards,Bob To the List, to all arelisted in the latest MSC flyer and probably also from people likeNorthernand Harbor Freight. discovered, Bill Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com --=====================_759608==_.ALT-- from bob@downandacross.com Tue Nov 30 18:45:57 1999 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: gorilla glue Ready to glue rod one. So far, only a couple cuts to the hands and pretty good strips. I have Gorilla Glue, Tite Bond II, and Shell Epon on hand to choose from. I am afraid the Epoxy will get screwed up in the mix, the Tite Bond II will fail, and the Gorilla Glue will distort the dimensions when it foams out. I will probably hand rub with Tung Oil to seal and then use P&L R-10 to finish off, if that matters. If I use Gorilla Glue for a rod, do I need to wet the surfaces with a spritz of water? Thanks in advance,BobBob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com productionswebsite, audio, and print designhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbob@downandacross.com from EESweet@aol.com Tue Nov 30 19:39:50 1999 Subject: Re: Nodeless question. *WARNING* message also contains fishfestinNZverbage Ian, Can't wait to hear how they turn out, if the action is similar to the 7 weight maybe I'll go with that. Which of the 7's did I cast, the Guide or the Guide Special on pg. 48 of Howell's book? As I just told someone, casting it was almost magical. Unfortunately I didn't get any more fish before leaving. We went to the camper park with the river behind it and it wasn't opening until Dec. 1. And Noelle had been so tolerant of all the time we'd spent fishing that wepretty much owed her some down time. One more reason to come back soon!Eric Eric, Dickerson also has a taper for a 5 weight "special" which is apparently avery powerfull rod of similar action to the #7 guide special. I am justmaking two of them for my older sons as a Christmas present and hopeto getthem glued up by next weekend. I will let you know what they are likeandcan send you the taper if you cannot find it. It is in Jack Howells book .regardsIan Kearney ps Did you catch any more fish on your trip ? from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Nov 30 19:49:08 1999 Subject: Re: RE: Hex Winding Checks List,Bob Venneri also makes hex winding checks along with Jeff Wagner.Bret from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Nov 30 20:03:46 1999 Wed, 1 Dec 1999 10:03:27 +0800 Subject: Re: gorilla glue I'm sorry to have cast doubt about the Shell Epon. I really thing theproblems I had and wrote about are due to a local supplier problem NOT theglue.As I wrote, I'm not even sure I was supplied with Shell Epon becuase itbehaved so differently to what I expected based on the previous batch Ihad. Tony At 07:44 PM 11/30/99 -0500, bob maulucci wrote:Ready to glue rod one. So far, only a couple cuts to the hands and pretty good strips. I have Gorilla Glue, Tite Bond II, and Shell Epon on hand to choose from. I am afraid the Epoxy will get screwed up in the mix, the Tite Bond II will fail, and the Gorilla Glue will distort the dimensions when it foams out. I will probably hand rub with Tung Oil to seal and then use P&L R-10 to finish off, if that matters. If I use Gorilla Glue for a rod, do I need to wet the surfaces with a spritz of water? Thanks in advance,BobBob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.com productionswebsite, audio, and print designhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbob@downandacross.com /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from ROBERT.KOPE@prodigy.net Tue Nov 30 20:59:27 1999 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 21:59:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Nodeless question. *WARNING* message also contains fishfest in NZ verbage boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00BC_01BF3B65.33240EC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00BC_01BF3B65.33240EC0 Terry, You've mentioned this experience a couple of times before, and I finally =have to add my $.02 West Systems epoxy is not suitable for glue unless you thicken it. I =used it several years ago to make a couple of cedar strip canoes, and =have had no problems with it. I used it both as a glue and to fill the =fiberglass cloth on the inside and outside of the hull. However, if you =just mix the resin and hardener, the mixture is too thin for use as a =glue. The epoxy will soak into the wood (or bamboo) resulting in a =glue-starved joint. When I built the canoes about 8 years ago, West sold "colloidal silica", =or "microfibers" (which I think was very short cotton fibers) as =thickening agents to thicken the resin for use as a glue. I used the =colloidal silica and used West Systems epoxy to glue scarf joints in the =gunwales, the decks to the gunwales, mortise and tenon joints in the =seat frames, and to laminate some paddles. I have had no problems with =the canoes or paddles in the 8 or so years I've been using them. At the time I built the canoes, I glued up a test scarf joint with just =the epoxy mixture with no thickening agent. The pieces just fell apart =as soon as I took the clamps off. I'm convinced that epoxy is a suitable = That said, I'm with you. I've never used epoxy to glue up a rod. I =built my first rod with resorcinol, and have been using it ever since. =If I could find a purple epoxy, I just might give it a try. -- Robert Kope-----Original Message-----From: TERENCE ACKLAND Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Monday, November 29, 1999 7:07 PMSubject: Re: Nodeless question. *WARNING* message also contains =fishfest in NZ verbage I am not convinced that epoxy is the way to go. I once experimented =with the "West epoxy system" on a two tip rod. The first tip I tried to =straighten delaminated and I was told by West that the epoxy was not = I put the other tip and the butt section in a corner with a lot of =other stuff and forgot about them. A couple of years later when having a =rare clean up I found the sections and put a moderate bend into them and = I know Epon is is not West epoxy but the formulation must be = I find it difficult to understand why rodmakers should turn their =backs on adhesives with a recorded history of success in rodmaking over= ------=_NextPart_000_00BC_01BF3B65.33240EC0 Terry, You've mentioned this experience a couple of times = I finally have to add my $.02 West Systems epoxy is not suitable for glue unless = glue-starved joint. When I built the canoes about 8 years ago, West sold= "colloidal silica", or "microfibers" (which I think = short cotton fibers) as thickening agents to thicken the resin for use = scarf joints in the gunwales, the decks to the gunwales, mortise and = problems with the canoes or paddles in the 8 or so years I've been using = them. At the time I built the canoes, I glued up a test = apart as soon as I took the clamps off. I'm convinced that epoxy is a = = try. -- Robert Kope -----Original = avyoung@iinet.net.au = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Monday, November 29, 1999 7:07 PMSubject: Re: = verbageTony, I am not convinced that epoxy= way to go. I once experimented with the "West epoxy = two tip rod. The first tip I tried to straighten delaminated and I = and the butt section in a corner with a lot of other stuff and = them. A couple of years later when having a rare clean up I found = sections and put a moderate bend into them and they all delaminated = I know Epon is is not West epoxy but the formulation must be = I find it difficult to understand why rodmakers should turn = years for a product with no real track record. I only hope that = ------=_NextPart_000_00BC_01BF3B65.33240EC0-- from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Tue Nov 30 23:06:10 1999 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id SAA12960 for ;Wed, 1 Dec 199918:06:00 +1300 Subject: Dickerson tapers Several people have asked me to post the details of the Dickerson #5 and#7tapers. Both of these are in Jack Howells book. I was just a little reluctant torepeat them here but figured that it would be ok if I also said that I havefound this book a great book and would strongly recommend it to anystartingrodmaker.It is a great mix of common sense and theory , and is veryreadible. Jack acknowledges Daryll Whitehead as the souce of these tapers. The second comment , I guess in support of some of Terry's views, is that been said to me on a number of ocassions that if you build one of the oldwell proven tapers then minor discepencies in measurements do not havemuchaffect on the action. I know that my #7 does not match exactly the tapersetout below. I guess that is why these rodmakers preferred these tapers in acommercial production situation. 1. Dickerson 7613 . this is the 1952 version .7'6",2 piece,5 weight,13/64ferrule.Jacks comments are as follows."The first , built in 1952 , is a verypowerful rod and could easily take a 6 weight and might be thought of as a7613 "special"".Butt Tip0 .360 .2085 .360 .19810 .344 .18015 .298 ,17020 .288 .15525 .274 .14030 .256 .12235 .238 .10440 .220 .09045 .213 .068 2. Dickerson 8015,Guide special , 1955 version , 8 foot , 7 weight, 15/64ferrule (or a 16/64 , this is a dropdown ferrule, mine has a 16/64).Jack's comments are as follows "These are probably the most famousDickerson; they are very stiff and very , very powerful.Made for shootinglong casts behind sweepers from a canoe, they can pick up a long line and aheavy fly from the water and pop it back out there with ease.Everybodytalksabout the 8015 Guide's Special's power and it would make a fine steelheadrod" butt tip0 .375 .2365 .375 .22510 .375 .20815 .353 .19720 .342 .18125 .325 .16830 .309 .15435 .294 .13740 .274 .12245 .257 .10448 .250 .096 Both of these sets of measurements are assumed to be without varnish. regards Ian Kearney from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Tue Nov 30 23:07:02 1999 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id SAA12929; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 18:05:56 +1300 Subject: Re:epoxy's There has been some discussion on epoxy's for glueing. I used an epoxy for the dozen or so rods I have built and have had noproblems so far. However , from another interest in manufacturing laminated timber beamsIhave had a lot to do with glueing timber and would make one or twocomments.Most of these comments have been made by others more expert then me onthislist in the past but are worth repeating. There are lots of types of epoxy's , each with different characteristics.West system has a low melting point as Tony pointed out and bolts epoxiedinwith West system epoxy can be pulled out by soaking in boiling water so Iguess the softening point is less then 100 degrees. At the same time otherepoxy's can withstand many hundreds of degrees of heat. It seems howeverthat Epon has most of the right charactistics for rods. However any epoxyhas a shelf life , and is prone to layering in a container. In the structualtimber business the drums of apoxy were turned over every day to preventlayering. We also would not use epoxy over 30 days in storage. The best glue for timber in an exterior situation is Resorcinol ,but it hassome mixing and using requirements that , in my opinion , make it just alittle more difficult to use in a rodmaking situation. The manufacturersinstructions need to be followed carefully , and the instructions on thedomestic sized packs may not be quite adequate. I have stuck with epoxy because what I do seems to work , but thatremindsme I have not turned my tins for a couple of weeks , and my present batchofepoxy is almost 8 months old. My next rod may well fail ! .Incidently it isnot possible to get Epon down here from usual sources, so I went to a gluemaunfacturer and told him the charactistics I needed and he produced twocans labled "rodmakers glue" which seems to work very well. It has all theright features and looks good on the bench with that label. It is probablyEpon from a large drum out the back. Ian Kearney At 07:00 PM 30/11/99 -0800, Robert Kope wrote: