Subject: *The Fine Bamboo Fly Rod*-2nd Ed. Correction!!! Ladies and Gentlemen, I have just noticed 2 postings re: my book, *The Fine Bamboo Fly Rod*which appeared today. There are errors in both which I need to correctimmediately so there is no misunderstanding. First, the correct, current retail price is $79.95 per copy. The $59.95 price is no longer in effect. This was an earlier offer that expired some months ago. If someone insists on receiving an unsigned copy, we will be happy to oblige, but signed copies are the same price (at this point in time)! We assume most people would prefer a signed copy, so we are advertising it that way, but the current retail price is the same, either way, at this time. Second, the price includes U.S. Priority Mail Insured Shipping for Domestic orders. International shipping costs are additional, depending on the country of destination. Please feel free to contact the publisher, The Cork & Cane Press, directlyatCorknCane@aol.com for any information re: price and availability. I hope this clarifies things. Sincerely,Stuart KirkfieldAuthor from fquinchat@locl.net Wed Dec 15 19:09:32 1999 corsair.locl.net(8.9.0/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA21776 for ;Wed, 15 Dec 1999 Subject: Teton rods boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01BF4739.34A379E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BF4739.34A379E0 I have a 7' 5wt Teton to restore. I don't believe the rod is very old. It looks to be a fast rod with a =neary straight taper. Since it experienced and incident with a car = Does anyone know this history of Teton rods. Is it the same company =that produces the reels? The case says it was made in Sun Valley Idaho. Dennis Bertram ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BF4739.34A379E0 I have a 7' 5wt Teton to =restore. experienced and incident with a car door, I'll have to confirm the = Does anyone know this history of= it was made in Sun Valley Idaho. Dennis =Bertram ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BF4739.34A379E0-- from lars32@gateway.net Wed Dec 15 22:02:03 1999 Subject: Guide spacing boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0069_01BF4748.45C02160" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0069_01BF4748.45C02160 I need the guide spacing for the 8 foot Cattanach 6wt. rod. Dave ------=_NextPart_000_0069_01BF4748.45C02160 I need the guide spacing for the 8= ------=_NextPart_000_0069_01BF4748.45C02160-- from mrj@aa.net Wed Dec 15 22:12:05 1999 Wed, 15 Dec 1999 20:11:48 -0800 "Rodmakers List" Subject: RE: Synthetic Cork? Possible Good News boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0002_01BF4738.5C56DB40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01BF4738.5C56DB40 hey, it's the wishing season. I drink wine by the gallon (actually the box)and I would welcome the use of different stoppers but I know that imageis abig part of the wine purchase. And Cork is part of the image-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, December 13, 1999 9:30 PM Subject: Re: Synthetic Cork? Possible Good News Only wishful thinking. If the market for cork goes down, then the rest ofthe cork tree groves will become condos.I'm thinking that if they get the cork away from the wine, then it willleave more cork for us rod builders!-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu FuhrmanSent: Monday, December 13, 1999 1:25 PM Subject: Synthetic Cork? Possible Good News Listers, Snipped from the Nov. 15th issue of Design News Magazine. "Neocork Technologies has developed a cork (Wine Bottle Cork) madewith AFFINITY polyolefin plastomers (POPs) that, says the company, istougher than traditional corks and won't break when pulled out of thebottle." "Dow Plastics (Midland, MI) supplied the material and worked withNeocork to develop the cork." According to the article 22 wineries are now using the new syntheticcork. If less tree bark cork is being used by the wineries there should bemore and better cork available for fly rod grips. Maybe we should look into using this product for grips, it is supposedto be non-absorbent. Nah!! Thought you might like to know. Best Wishes for the Holiday Season Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01BF4738.5C56DB40 it's the wishing season. I drink wine by the gallon (actually the box) = would welcome the use of different stoppers but I know that image is a = of the wine purchase. And Cork is part of the image WeissSent: Monday, December 13, 1999 9:30 mrj@aa.net; dickay@alltel.net; Rodmakers ListSubject: Re: = Cork? Possible Good NewsOnly wishful thinking. If the = condos. I'm thinking that if they get the cork = builders! -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.w= rodmakers@w= Behalf Of Dick & Kathy FuhrmanSent: Monday, = Cork? Possible Good NewsListers, Snipped from the Nov. 15th issue of Design News =Magazine. "Neocork Technologies has developed a cork (Wine Bottle Cork) = with AFFINITY polyolefin plastomers (POPs) that, says the company, = tougher than traditional corks and won't break when pulled out of = bottle." "Dow Plastics (Midland, MI) supplied the material and worked = Neocork to develop the cork." According to the article 22 wineries are now using the new = should be more and better cork available for fly rod grips. Maybe we should look into using this product for grips, it is = supposed to be non-absorbent. Nah!! Thought you might like to know. Best Wishes for the Holiday Season Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net= ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01BF4738.5C56DB40-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Dec 15 23:30:43 1999 Thu, 16 Dec 1999 13:29:51 +0800 Subject: RE: Synthetic Cork? Possible Good News "Rodmakers List" types="text/plain,text/html";boundary="=====================_2921622==_.ALT" --=====================_2921622==_.ALT Sounds like the best stopper would be a fawcet? I'm grining, I'm grinning;-) Tony At 08:09 PM 12/15/99 -0800, Martin Jensen wrote: hey, it's the wishing season. I drink wine by the gallon (actually the box)and I would welcome the use of different stoppers but I know that imageis abig part of the wine purchase. And Cork is part of the image -----Original Message----- From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, December 13, 1999 9:30 PM Subject: Re: Synthetic Cork? Possible Good News Only wishful thinking. If the market for cork goes down, then the rest ofthe cork tree groves will become condos. I'm thinking that if they get the cork away from the wine, then it willleave more cork for us rod builders! -----Original Message----- From:owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Fuhrman Sent: Monday, December 13, 1999 1:25 PM Subject: Synthetic Cork? Possible Good News Listers, Snipped from the Nov. 15th issue of Design News Magazine. "Neocork Technologies has developed a cork (Wine Bottle Cork) madewithAFFINITY polyolefin plastomers (POPs) that, says the company, istougherthan traditional corks and won't break when pulled out of the bottle." "Dow Plastics (Midland, MI) supplied the material and worked withNeocork todevelop the cork." According to the article 22 wineries are now using the new syntheticcork. If less tree bark cork is being used by the wineries there should bemoreand better cork available for fly rod grips. Maybe we should look into using this product for grips, it is supposedto benon-absorbent. Nah!! Thought you might like to know. Best Wishes for the Holiday Season Dick Fuhrman dickay@alltel.net /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_2921622==_.ALT grining, I'm grinning ;-) Tony At 08:09 PM 12/15/99 -0800, Martin Jensen wrote: hey,it's the wishing season. I drink wine by the gallon (actually the box)and I would welcome the use of different stoppers but I know that imageis a big part of the wine purchase. And Cork is part of theimage -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu[ Behalf Of Steven WeissSent: Monday, December 13, 1999 9:30PM ListSubject: Re: Synthetic Cork? Possible Good News Only wishful thinking. If the market for cork goes down, then therest of the cork tree groves will becomecondos.I'm thinking that if they get the cork away from the wine, then itwill leave more cork for us rodbuilders!-----Original Message-----From:owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu [ Sent: Monday, December 13, 1999 1:25 PM Subject: Synthetic Cork? Possible Good News Listers, Snipped from the Nov. 15th issue of Design News Magazine. "Neocork Technologies has developed a cork (Wine Bottle Cork)made with AFFINITYpolyolefin plastomers (POPs) that, says the company, is tougher thantraditional corksand won't break when pulled out of the bottle." "Dow Plastics (Midland, MI) supplied the material and workedwith Neocork todevelop the cork." According to the article 22 wineries are now using the new synthetic less tree bark cork is being used by the wineries there should be more andbetter corkavailable for fly rod grips. Maybe we should look into using this product for grips, it is supposedto benon-absorbent. Nah!! Thought you might like to know. Best Wishes for the Holiday Season Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net /*************************************************************************/AV Young And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_2921622==_.ALT-- from morten@flash.net Wed Dec 15 23:34:54 1999 Rodmakers List Subject: Re: Synthetic Cork? Possible Good News Cork is not just part of the image, but part of the total experience of good wine. Just like cork and bamboo, is a part of fly fishing's totalexperience. I hope and think cork will be around for a long time. Let the graphite flyrodders use synthetic cork and drink even cheaperwine with plastic stoppers and we will enjoy the good stuff.Oops, I could not help it.Morten Lovstad-- 3119 Georgia Pine Dr.Spring, TX 77373(281) 353 5725http://www.flash.net/~morten from BigJohn47@aol.com Thu Dec 16 07:56:21 1999 Subject: ferrules hey guys and gals just wondering i read in ray goulds book that he makessome of his rods with graphite inserts well has anbody tried graphite forferrules.happy holidays to alljohn from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Dec 16 08:36:52 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:37:03 -0600 Subject: Re: ferrules boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0041_01BF47A0.BF702340" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01BF47A0.BF702340 I've only seen them on graphite rods, so far. I have a couple of =flipping rods, and they have stood up well, under heavy stress. It will =just take some development work, but I haven't seen any yet, as used on =a cane rod. GMA Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 7:55 AMSubject: ferrules hey guys and gals just wondering i read in ray goulds book that he = of his rods with graphite inserts well has anbody tried graphite for =ferrules.happy = to alljohn ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01BF47A0.BF702340 I've only seen them on graphite rods, so = couple of flipping rods, and they have stood up well, under heavy = will just take some development work, but I haven't seen any yet, as = cane rod. GMA ----- Original Message ----- BigJohn47@aol.com = Sent: Thursday, December 16, = AMSubject: ferruleshey guys and gals just wondering i read in ray goulds = he makes some of his rods with graphite inserts well has anbody = = = john ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01BF47A0.BF702340-- from leroyt@involved.com Thu Dec 16 08:56:09 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61049U4500L450S0V35)with SMTP id com; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 06:53:08 -0800 Subject: RE: ferrules boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0002_01BF4794.08B6E8C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01BF4794.08B6E8C0 I believe that you can buy a Bamboo rod from Winston or one of the othercommercial manufactures with fiberglass ferrules at a premium rate.Leroy.......-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 6:37 AM Subject: Re: ferrules I've only seen them on graphite rods, so far. I have a couple of flippingrods, and they have stood up well, under heavy stress. It will just takesome development work, but I haven't seen any yet, as used on a cane rod. GMA----- Original Message -----From: BigJohn47@aol.com Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 7:55 AMSubject: ferrules hey guys and gals just wondering i read in ray goulds book that hemakessomeof his rods with graphite inserts well has anbody tried graphite forferrules.happyholidaysto alljohn ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01BF4794.08B6E8C0 rate.Leroy....... noblerSent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 6:37 = BigJohn47@aol.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: ferrulesI've only seen them on graphite rods, so = a couple of flipping rods, and they have stood up well, under heavy = will just take some development work, but I haven't seen any yet, as = cane rod. GMA ----- Original Message ----- BigJohn47@aol.com = Sent: Thursday, December 16, = AMSubject: ferruleshey guys and gals just wondering i read in ray goulds = that he makes some of his rods with graphite inserts well has = = = john ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01BF4794.08B6E8C0-- from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Dec 16 09:01:04 1999 0000 1999 06:52:16 PST Subject: Re: ferrules i could see a problem in that there would not be thecustomary blinding,fish- spooking flash over the water.would we be taking too much advantage over the fishthis way? ;-) timothy --- nobler wrote:I've only seen them on graphite rods, so far. I havea couple of flipping rods, and they have stood upwell, under heavy stress. It will just take somedevelopment work, but I haven't seen any yet, asused on a cane rod. GMA----- Original Message ----- From: BigJohn47@aol.com Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 7:55 AMSubject: ferrules hey guys and gals just wondering i read in raygoulds book that he makes some of his rods with graphite inserts well has anbodytried graphite for ferrules. happy holidays to all john ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com from LambersonW@missouri.edu Thu Dec 16 09:23:42 1999 (5.5.2650.21) BigJohn47@aol.com, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: ferrules The glass ferruled rods are made by Mario Wojnicki for and marketed byScott. There are two models with glass ferrules. They are priced at$3500. That is about $1000 higher than their other bamboo rods. They are.4 oz lighter than the apparently comparable rod with conventional ferrule.Their web page is http://www.scottflyrod.com/sfr/Rods/cane.htm Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: ferrules I believe that you can buy a Bamboo rod from Winston or one of the othercommercial manufactures with fiberglass ferrules at a premium rate.Leroy....... -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: ferrules I've only seen them on graphite rods, so far. I have a couple of flippingrods, and they have stood up well, under heavy stress. It will just takesome development work, but I haven't seen any yet, as used on a cane rod. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Subject: ferrules hey guys and gals just wondering i read in ray goulds book that he makessome of his rods with graphite inserts well has anbody tried graphite forferrules.happy holidays to alljohn from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Dec 16 09:34:03 1999 1999 07:34:01 PST Subject: RE: ferrules why would a glass ferrel, installed, cost $1000? timothy --- "Lamberson, William R." wrote:The glass ferruled rods are made by Mario Wojnicki Scott. There are two models with glass ferrules. They are priced at$3500. That is about $1000 higher than their otherbamboo rods. They are.4 oz lighter than the apparently comparable rodwith conventional ferrule.Their web page ishttp://www.scottflyrod.com/sfr/Rods/cane.htm Bill Lamberson -----Original Message-----From: leroyt@involved.com Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 9:06 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: ferrules I believe that you can buy a Bamboo rod from Winstonor one of the othercommercial manufactures with fiberglass ferrules ata premium rate.Leroy....... -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Of noblerSent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 6:37 AM Subject: Re: ferrules I've only seen them on graphite rods, so far. I havea couple of flippingrods, and they have stood up well, under heavystress. It will just takesome development work, but I haven't seen any yet,as used on a cane rod. GMA ----- Original Message ----- From: BigJohn47@aol.com Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 7:55 AMSubject: ferrules hey guys and gals just wondering i read in raygoulds book that he makessome of his rods with graphite inserts well has anbodytried graphite forferrules. happy holidays to all john ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Thu Dec 16 09:48:14 1999 Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:47:23 -0500 "rod 'akers" Subject: RE: ferrules why would a bamboo rod, conventional ferrule, cost $2500? -----Original Message-----From: timothy troester [SMTP:tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com]Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 10:34 AM Subject: RE: ferrules why would a glass ferrel, installed, cost $1000? timothy --- "Lamberson, William R." wrote:The glass ferruled rods are made by Mario Wojnicki Scott. There are two models with glass ferrules. They are priced at$3500. That is about $1000 higher than their otherbamboo rods. They are.4 oz lighter than the apparently comparable rodwith conventional ferrule.Their web page ishttp://www.scottflyrod.com/sfr/Rods/cane.htm Bill Lamberson -----Original Message-----From: leroyt@involved.com Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 9:06 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: ferrules I believe that you can buy a Bamboo rod from Winstonor one of the othercommercial manufactures with fiberglass ferrules ata premium rate.Leroy....... -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Of noblerSent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 6:37 AM Subject: Re: ferrules I've only seen them on graphite rods, so far. I havea couple of flippingrods, and they have stood up well, under heavystress. It will just takesome development work, but I haven't seen any yet,as used on a cane rod. GMA ----- Original Message ----- From: BigJohn47@aol.com Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 7:55 AMSubject: ferrules hey guys and gals just wondering i read in raygoulds book that he makessome of his rods with graphite inserts well has anbodytried graphite forferrules. happy holidays to all john ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Dec 16 09:53:57 1999 0000 1999 07:52:37 PST Subject: RE: ferrules "rod 'akers" seth, are you saying there is that much laborinvolved in the install? or are you saying that $2500is too much?or are you saying one should gouge the other guyanyway you can get away with? timothy --- Seth Steinzor wrote:why would a bamboo rod, conventional ferrule, cost$2500? -----Original Message-----From: timothy troester[SMTP:tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com]Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 10:34 AM Subject: RE: ferrules why would a glass ferrel, installed, cost $1000? timothy --- "Lamberson, William R." wrote:The glass ferruled rods are made by MarioWojnicki Scott. There are two models with glassferrules. They are priced at$3500. That is about $1000 higher than theirotherbamboo rods. They are.4 oz lighter than the apparently comparable rodwith conventional ferrule.Their web page ishttp://www.scottflyrod.com/sfr/Rods/cane.htm Bill Lamberson -----Original Message-----From: leroyt@involved.com Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 9:06 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: ferrules I believe that you can buy a Bamboo rod fromWinstonor one of the othercommercial manufactures with fiberglass ferrulesata premium rate.Leroy....... -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu BehalfOf noblerSent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 6:37 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: ferrules I've only seen them on graphite rods, so far. Ihavea couple of flippingrods, and they have stood up well, under heavystress. It will just takesome development work, but I haven't seen anyyet,as used on a cane rod. GMA ----- Original Message ----- From: BigJohn47@aol.com Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 7:55 AMSubject: ferrules hey guys and gals just wondering i read in raygoulds book that he makessome of his rods with graphite inserts well hasanbodytried graphite forferrules. happy holidays to all john ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. Allin one place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Thu Dec 16 09:58:02 1999 Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:57:13 -0500 Seth Steinzor,"rod 'akers" Subject: RE: ferrules I'm just saying that the explanation for why a glass ferrule, installed,costs $1000, is probably the same as the explanation for why the rod it'sattached to costs $2500. -----Original Message-----From: timothy troester [SMTP:tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com]Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 10:53 AM Subject: RE: ferrules seth, are you saying there is that much laborinvolved in the install? or are you saying that $2500is too much?or are you saying one should gouge the other guyanyway you can get away with? timothy --- Seth Steinzor wrote:why would a bamboo rod, conventional ferrule, cost$2500? -----Original Message-----From: timothy troester[SMTP:tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com]Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 10:34 AM Subject: RE: ferrules why would a glass ferrel, installed, cost $1000? timothy --- "Lamberson, William R." wrote:The glass ferruled rods are made by MarioWojnicki Scott. There are two models with glassferrules. They are priced at$3500. That is about $1000 higher than theirotherbamboo rods. They are.4 oz lighter than the apparently comparable rodwith conventional ferrule.Their web page ishttp://www.scottflyrod.com/sfr/Rods/cane.htm Bill Lamberson -----Original Message-----From: leroyt@involved.com Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 9:06 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: ferrules I believe that you can buy a Bamboo rod fromWinstonor one of the othercommercial manufactures with fiberglass ferrulesata premium rate.Leroy....... -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu BehalfOf noblerSent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 6:37 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: ferrules I've only seen them on graphite rods, so far. Ihavea couple of flippingrods, and they have stood up well, under heavystress. It will just takesome development work, but I haven't seen anyyet,as used on a cane rod. GMA ----- Original Message ----- From: BigJohn47@aol.com Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 7:55 AMSubject: ferrules hey guys and gals just wondering i read in raygoulds book that he makessome of his rods with graphite inserts well hasanbodytried graphite forferrules. happy holidays to all john ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. Allin one place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Dec 16 10:05:55 1999 0000 1999 08:01:52 PST Subject: RE: ferrules gentlepersons, let me be perfectly clear. this isnot a jab. is there some reason that a glass ferrelwould cost more? are they special order? are theymore likely to have to be repaired? is there sometingdifficult about marrying glass and bamboo? or is it anovelty? timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Thu Dec 16 10:12:25 1999 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id KAA05064 for; (8.8.4/8.6.8) withSMTP id KAA07270 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 1999 Subject: RE: ferrules I've just started experimenting with making a one-piece fiberglassferrule for 6-sided rods. If I get something that works I will let you all know. I've read on this list that Mario Wojnicki's ferrule is patented buta search I did on the web (certainly not exhasutive) didn't turn upanything. I have never seen one of his rods in the flesh. Is the fiberglass ferrule 1- or 2- piece?......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Thu Dec 16 10:29:47 1999 0500 Subject: FW: ferrules I think it's the very delicate and laborious grafting process that must beundertaken when the bamboo is still growing. Reconnecting the top part ofthe bamboo after slicing it in half to fit the full size fiberglass ferruleis pretty difficult. Culms that have gone through this process take severalmore years to grow to adequate size and therefore cost more. Splitting isalso more precarious work... p.s. I mean no disrespect to Scott whose plastic rods I do like...maybethere is a good reason but I too find it difficult to guess what that mightbe -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: ferrules why would a glass ferrel, installed, cost $1000?timothy --- "Lamberson, William R." wrote:The glass ferruled rods are made by Mario Wojnicki Scott. There are two models with glass ferrules.They are priced at$3500. That is about $1000 higher than their otherbamboo rods. They are.4 oz lighter than the apparently comparable rodwith conventional ferrule.Their web page ishttp://www.scottflyrod.com/sfr/Rods/cane.htm Bill Lamberson -----Original Message-----From: leroyt@involved.com Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 9:06 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: ferrules I believe that you can buy a Bamboo rod from Winstonor one of the othercommercial manufactures with fiberglass ferrules ata premium rate.Leroy....... -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Of noblerSent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 6:37 AM Subject: Re: ferrules I've only seen them on graphite rods, so far. I havea couple of flippingrods, and they have stood up well, under heavystress. It will just takesome development work, but I haven't seen any yet,as used on a cane rod. GMA ----- Original Message -----From: BigJohn47@aol.com Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 7:55 AMSubject: ferrules hey guys and gals just wondering i read in raygoulds book that he makessomeof his rods with graphite inserts well has anbodytried graphite forferrules. happy holidaysto all john ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com from cmj@post11.tele.dk Thu Dec 16 10:41:30 1999 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP +0100 Subject: Sv: ferrules Fellow Listers I seem to remember that this particular Winston rod is hollwbuild as wellas fitted witha fibreglass ferrule.As to the rather hot pricetag: Perhaps it is inscribed "Hot Shot Model"? As to fibreglass ferrules on cane rods: A month ago I saw a rod, made by adanishrodmaker, fitted with a glass ferrule - simply a piece of a glass fishingrod glued ontothe cane with epoxy.It worked OK and lookes like sh... In Sweden there is a now 80 years old gentleman, who builds rod with justa femaleferrule on the tip, and nothing but cane on the butt. He has made these rods and they seem to work OK. His reason for doing this: Its easy, cheap andreduces the riskof breaking near the ferrules with 50 percent. My suggestion: Glue 2 inches of an old glass rod on the tip section, andnothing more.Paint it to look like bamboo, if You are a purist, and voila - You have gotTHE solutionto ferrule fitting, breaking rods and being low on cash. Me? I stick to old fashioned brass ferrules, male and female ferrule madeout of onepiece of brass each. Why? because I like it that way. regards, Carsten from dhaftel@att.com Thu Dec 16 10:50:03 1999 LAA26209 (8.8.8+Sun/ATTEMS-1.4.1sol2) (5.5.2448.0) Subject: RE: ferrules The young bamboo shoots are also good stir-fried in garlic and ginger! Holdthe glass please! -----Original Message----- Subject: FW: ferrules I think it's the very delicate and laborious grafting process that must beundertaken when the bamboo is still growing. Reconnecting the top part ofthe bamboo after slicing it in half to fit the full size fiberglass ferruleis pretty difficult. Culms that have gone through this process take severalmore years to grow to adequate size and therefore cost more. Splitting isalso more precarious work... p.s. I mean no disrespect to Scott whose plastic rods I do like...maybethere is a good reason but I too find it difficult to guess what that mightbe -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: ferrules why would a glass ferrel, installed, cost $1000?timothy --- "Lamberson, William R." wrote:The glass ferruled rods are made by Mario Wojnicki Scott. There are two models with glass ferrules.They are priced at$3500. That is about $1000 higher than their otherbamboo rods. They are.4 oz lighter than the apparently comparable rodwith conventional ferrule.Their web page ishttp://www.scottflyrod.com/sfr/Rods/cane.htm Bill Lamberson -----Original Message-----From: leroyt@involved.com Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 9:06 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: ferrules I believe that you can buy a Bamboo rod from Winstonor one of the othercommercial manufactures with fiberglass ferrules ata premium rate.Leroy....... -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Of nobler> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 6:37 AM Subject: Re: ferrules I've only seen them on graphite rods, so far. I havea couple of flippingrods, and they have stood up well, under heavystress. It will just takesome development work, but I haven't seen any yet,as used on a cane rod. GMA ----- Original Message -----From: BigJohn47@aol.com Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 7:55 AMSubject: ferrules hey guys and gals just wondering i read in raygoulds book that he makessomeof his rods with graphite inserts well has anbodytried graphite forferrules. happy holidaysto all john ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Dec 16 14:40:21 1999 Thu, 16 Dec 1999 12:40:02 -0800 Subject: Really nice snake guides Friends,Today's mail brought a sample selection of snake guides from acompany called "Snake Brand" fishing rod guides. Thinking about theseguides reminded me that Russ Gooding carries the same brand.Looking at these guides tells me that it is possible to makesnake guides right. They are availalble in black and bronze finishes.All the feet are flat, and the guides sit square. There are no burrs onthe feet, no blemishes in the finish. All the feet are the same length they arrive! No grinding, polishing, coloring anything. One thing Ireally like is that the feet are not overly long. My only concern is price -- at $1.35 each, the guides are notcheap. But quantity discounts are available. If anyone wants to go inwith me and make a quantity purchase, let me know off list.You can see the company's website at: http://www.snakeguides.com/ As usual, no financial interest on my part other than hoping to getsomeone to split an order with me. Harry Boyd from watson@cape-consult.co.uk Thu Dec 16 16:20:20 1999 Subject: Info please boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0033_01BF4813.A737E560" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BF4813.A737E560 Ihave recently been given a rod. Clearly it is very old, it is made from =dark wood and is in 3 pieces,the handle is made from leather stiched around brass reel fittings. =Looks like a salmon rod of some sort, judging from its handle. The butt =stopper hasCummins Bishop Aukland on it and the brass reel fitting has M=Rogan Ballyshannon stamped on it. the rod is @10- 11 ft.Any houghts Tim. ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BF4813.A737E560 Ihave recently been given a rod. = old, it is made from dark wood and is in 3 pieces,the handle is made = leather stiched around brass reel fittings. Looks like a salmon rod of = sort, judging from its handle. The butt stopper hasCummins Bishop = and the brass reel fitting has M Rogan Ballyshannon stamped on it. the = @10-11 ft.Any houghtsThanks Tim. ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BF4813.A737E560-- from dpeaston@wzrd.com Thu Dec 16 16:43:39 1999 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Really nice snake guides At 02:39 PM 12/16/1999 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote:Friends,Today's mail brought a sample selection of snake guides from acompany called "Snake Brand" fishing rod guides. Thinking about theseguides reminded me that Russ Gooding carries the same brand.Looking at these guides tells me that it is possible to makesnake guides right. They are availalble in black and bronze finishes.All the feet are flat, and the guides sit square. There are no burrs onthe feet, no blemishes in the finish. All the feet are the same length they arrive! No grinding, polishing, coloring anything. One thing Ireally like is that the feet are not overly long. My only concern is price -- at $1.35 each, the guides are notcheap. But quantity discounts are available. If anyone wants to go inwith me and make a quantity purchase, let me know off list.You can see the company's website at: http://www.snakeguides.com/ As usual, no financial interest on my part other than hoping to getsomeone to split an order with me. Harry Boyd I just got a set from Russ yesterday. Wow they are nice. The wire stock isa thinner guage than say, H&H. Unfortunateley in restoring rods I neverknow how many and what sizes I need but anyone who got involved in apurchace would be doing him/herself a favor. JMHO Yada yada.... -Doug Easton from mrj@aa.net Thu Dec 16 23:18:28 1999 Thu, 16 Dec 1999 21:18:19 -0800 "Rodmakers List" Subject: RE: Synthetic Cork? Possible Good News Years ago when I could not afford it, I bought expensive wine to drink. Ican now afford it, and I buy box wine for day to day drinking. I used tocollect the corks in a large bowel and even thought if there was some waythat I could make handles out of them. I would have been "rolling" inhandles if I could have figured it out.Still I buy the good Port for an evening drink thoughMartin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Synthetic Cork? Possible Good News Cork is not just part of the image, but part of the total experience ofgood wine. Just like cork and bamboo, is a part of fly fishing's totalexperience. I hope and think cork will be around for a long time.Let the graphite flyrodders use synthetic cork and drink even cheaperwine with plastic stoppers and we will enjoy the good stuff.Oops, I could not help it.Morten Lovstad--3119 Georgia Pine Dr.Spring, TX 77373(281) 353 5725http://www.flash.net/~morten from scan.oest@post.tele.dk Fri Dec 17 01:37:17 1999 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP +0100 Subject: Sv: Good News Martin wrote Still I buy the good Port for an evening drink thoughMartin Jensen The smell of port and cane...........heavenly. Guys,this is an example to follow. regards, Carsten from saltwein@swbell.net Fri Dec 17 08:32:28 1999 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with ESMTP id for Subject: Male ferrule pulled off Open Question I had a rod at a local fly shop. The rod had been test cast and puttogether a number of times. The ferrules had been dressed for what Iwould consider an average pull with a solid pop. They had not beensticking. I get a call from the shop owner that a ferrule pulled off, obviously Itell her not to worry about it and that I will take care of it. I getthe rod home and with some trepidation, I begin to consider how I willget the stuck male out of the female ferrule. I put the section of caneback in the male ferrule and held it against the cane with my fingersand with the steady medium pull, that I had originally lapped theferrule for, it came apart with a nice pop. My question is why in the heck did the male ferrule pull off for them.It was a two person pull. This is my firs, and I hope last, ferrule failure. I use two ton epoxy,clean surfaces with alcohol and really rough up the inside of theferrule. Open to any ideas or suggestions Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Dec 17 08:44:11 1999 0000 1999 06:44:07 PST Subject: Re: Male ferrule pulled off steve, did the epoxy stick to the ferrule or to thebamboo? timothy --- Steve Trauthwein wrote:Open Question I had a rod at a local fly shop. The rod had beentest cast and puttogether a number of times. The ferrules had beendressed for what Iwould consider an average pull with a solid pop.They had not beensticking. I get a call from the shop owner that a ferrulepulled off, obviously Itell her not to worry about it and that I will takecare of it. I getthe rod home and with some trepidation, I begin toconsider how I willget the stuck male out of the female ferrule. I putthe section of caneback in the male ferrule and held it against thecane with my fingersand with the steady medium pull, that I hadoriginally lapped theferrule for, it came apart with a nice pop. My question is why in the heck did the male ferrulepull off for them.It was a two person pull. This is my firs, and I hope last, ferrule failure. Iuse two ton epoxy,clean surfaces with alcohol and really rough up theinside of theferrule. Open to any ideas or suggestions Regards, SteveIndependence, MO ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Dec 17 08:51:44 1999 Fri, 17 Dec 1999 06:51:37 -0800 Subject: Re: Male ferrule pulled off Steve,Everyone's going to want to know how you installed it. Was theresome play in the cane to metal fit? Did you rough the metal with a file?Did you crown the tabs of the ferrule? What kind of two ton epoxy? But let me say this. I think it's possible to sort of"cross-thread" a ferrule when putting it together. If the person whoassembled the rod got it out of whack, then both inserting and removingwould take a LOT of pressure. So maybe it wasn't you after all. Should you decide that the glue is the culprit, I've had good luckwith the epoxy Chris Bogart reccommended - a Devcon 5 minute gel superglue. Thing to remember when looking for it is that one part is blue, theother part clear (grayish). I also like the Urethane Bond I got from LeoEck at SRG 99. Let's hear some more details, Harry Steve Trauthwein wrote: Open Question I had a rod at a local fly shop. The rod had been test cast and puttogether a number of times. The ferrules had been dressed for what Iwould consider an average pull with a solid pop. They had not beensticking. I get a call from the shop owner that a ferrule pulled off, obviously Itell her not to worry about it and that I will take care of it. I getthe rod home and with some trepidation, I begin to consider how I willget the stuck male out of the female ferrule. I put the section of caneback in the male ferrule and held it against the cane with my fingersand with the steady medium pull, that I had originally lapped theferrule for, it came apart with a nice pop. My question is why in the heck did the male ferrule pull off for them.It was a two person pull. This is my firs, and I hope last, ferrule failure. I use two ton epoxy,clean surfaces with alcohol and really rough up the inside of theferrule. Open to any ideas or suggestions Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Dec 17 08:52:49 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 17 Dec 1999 08:44:25 -0600 Subject: Re: Male ferrule pulled off boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0031_01BF486C.28922F00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01BF486C.28922F00 In my experience, such epoxies as "Two Ton", are general purpose ="household" types. Not he type that are used for real tough jobs. The =best I have found are slow set, taking 24 hours, at the least. Having =oil-free surfaces is also key to such joints. Several washes in fresh =MEK, scrubbing the inside of the ferrules with a Q-Tip, are also in =order. All said, I've never had a ferrule pull off, when installed with the old =style stick cement, if it fit well to start with. GMA GMA Sent: Friday, December 17, 1999 10:32 AMSubject: Male ferrule pulled off Open Question I had a rod at a local fly shop. The rod had been test cast and puttogether a number of times. The ferrules had been dressed for what Iwould consider an average pull with a solid pop. They had not beensticking. I get a call from the shop owner that a ferrule pulled off, obviously =Itell her not to worry about it and that I will take care of it. I getthe rod home and with some trepidation, I begin to consider how I willget the stuck male out of the female ferrule. I put the section of =caneback in the male ferrule and held it against the cane with my fingersand with the steady medium pull, that I had originally lapped theferrule for, it came apart with a nice pop. My question is why in the heck did the male ferrule pull off for them.It was a two person pull. This is my firs, and I hope last, ferrule failure. I use two ton =epoxy,clean surfaces with alcohol and really rough up the inside of theferrule. Open to any ideas or suggestions Regards, SteveIndependence, MO ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01BF486C.28922F00 In my experience, such epoxies as "TwoTon", = general purpose "household" types. Not he type that are used for real = jobs. The best I have found are slow set, taking 24 hours, at the least. = oil-free surfaces is also key to such joints. Several washes in fresh = order. All said, I've never had a ferrule pull off, = with. GMA GMA ----- Original Message ----- Trauthwein Sent: Friday, December 17, 1999= AMSubject: Male ferrule pulled =offOpen QuestionI had a rod at a local fly shop. = had been test cast and puttogether a number of times. The ferrules = been dressed for what Iwould consider an average pull with a solid = They had not beensticking.I get a call from the shop owner = ferrule pulled off, obviously Itell her not to worry about it and = will take care of it. I getthe rod home and with some trepidation, = to consider how I willget the stuck male out of the female = the section of caneback in the male ferrule and held it against = with my fingersand with the steady medium pull, that I had = lapped theferrule for, it came apart with a nice pop.My = is why in the heck did the male ferrule pull off for them.It was a = person pull.This is my firs, and I hope last, ferrule failure. = two ton epoxy,clean surfaces with alcohol and really rough up the = of theferrule.Open to any ideas or = SteveIndependence, MO ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01BF486C.28922F00-- from dmanders@telusplanet.net Fri Dec 17 09:47:04 1999 don") Fri, 17 Dec 1999 08:46:14 -0700 Subject: Re: Male ferrule pulled off Steve, I've experienced the same type of trouble and seem several otherexamples.- excluding glue failure, rough handling, grease or other obvious troubles,I've come to conclusion that sometimes the cane shrinks and causes thistype of trouble. It seems to pull away from the metal sections. Further,ferrules that are fit perfectly when sitting for some time without beingmounted can stick even if clean. This I've attributed to cane swelling. Ihad one rod that I worked on for a week to get it to fit correctly. Everyevening it was a struggle to get it apart, Every morning I would polish itto fit with diamond dust paper. This went on for a week. The rod was builtin Alberta in the winter @ humidifies of 20>30% and used in southernAlberta in the summer with the humidity running 50>70%. The only thingthatmade sense was the cane was swelling. I've had other rods that never gavealick of trouble. Hope this helps, Don At 08:32 AM 12/17/99 -0800, Steve Trauthwein wrote:Open Question I had a rod at a local fly shop. The rod had been test cast and puttogether a number of times. The ferrules had been dressed for what Iwould consider an average pull with a solid pop. They had not beensticking. I get a call from the shop owner that a ferrule pulled off, obviously Itell her not to worry about it and that I will take care of it. I getthe rod home and with some trepidation, I begin to consider how I willget the stuck male out of the female ferrule. I put the section of caneback in the male ferrule and held it against the cane with my fingersand with the steady medium pull, that I had originally lapped theferrule for, it came apart with a nice pop. My question is why in the heck did the male ferrule pull off for them.It was a two person pull. This is my firs, and I hope last, ferrule failure. I use two ton epoxy,clean surfaces with alcohol and really rough up the inside of theferrule. Open to any ideas or suggestions Regards, SteveIndependence, MO http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from earsdws@duke.edu Fri Dec 17 09:52:14 1999 KAA09043; "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Male ferrule pulled off boundary="------------C35F5498466AD3C9E05C1CE5" --------------C35F5498466AD3C9E05C1CE5 We use epoxies here to hold teflon connectors in the lumen of titaniumpedestals for (long-term) surgical implantation on the skull. We havefound that the key to getting the epoxy to hold permanently is tolightly "thread" the inner wall to increase the surface area for grip,then sand/glass blast to roughen up and, again, increase the surfacearea for "bite." Works great and, using this procedures actually appearto have water/fluid tight seals. If it can work in the god awful nastyenvironment of the body, it should also work on a flyrod.dws. nobler wrote: In my experience, such epoxies as "Two Ton", are general purpose"household" types. Not he type that are used for real tough jobs. Thebest I have found are slow set, taking 24 hours, at the least. Havingoil-free surfaces is also key to such joints. Several washes in freshMEK, scrubbing the inside of the ferrules with a Q-Tip, are also inorder. All said, I've never had a ferrule pull off, when installedwith the old style stick cement, if it fit well to start with. GMA GMA ----- Original Message -----From: Steve Trauthwein Sent: Friday, December 17, 1999 10:32 AMSubject: Male ferrule pulled offOpen Question I had a rod at a local fly shop. The rod had been test castand puttogether a number of times. The ferrules had been dressed would consider an average pull with a solid pop. They hadnot beensticking. I get a call from the shop owner that a ferrule pulled off,obviously Itell her not to worry about it and that I will take care ofit. I getthe rod home and with some trepidation, I begin to considerhow I willget the stuck male out of the female ferrule. I put thesection of caneback in the male ferrule and held it against the cane withmy fingersand with the steady medium pull, that I had originallylapped theferrule for, it came apart with a nice pop. My question is why in the heck did the male ferrule pull off It was a two person pull. This is my firs, and I hope last, ferrule failure. I use twoton epoxy,clean surfaces with alcohol and really rough up the insideof theferrule. Open to any ideas or suggestions Regards, SteveIndependence, MO --------------C35F5498466AD3C9E05C1CE5 We use epoxies here to hold teflon connectors in the lumen of titanium have found that the key to getting the epoxy to hold permanently is tolightly "thread" the inner wall to increase the surface area for grip,then sand/glass blast to roughen up and, again, increase the surface area nasty environment of the body, it should also work on a flyrod.dws.nobler wrote: In my experience,such epoxies as "Two Ton", are general purpose "household" types. Not hetype that are used for real tough jobs. The best I have found are slowset, taking 24 hours, at the least. Having oil-free surfaces is also keyto such joints. Several washes in fresh MEK, scrubbing the inside of the said, I've never had a ferrule pull off, when installed with the old style ----- Original Message ----- From:SteveTrauthwein Sent: Friday, December 17, 199910:32AM Subject: Male ferrule pulled off I had a rod at a local fly shop. The rod had been test cast and puttogether a number of times. The ferrules had been dressed for whatIwould consider an average pull with a solid pop. They had not beensticking.I get a call from the shop owner that a ferrule pulled off, obviouslyItell her not to worry about it and that I will take care of it. I getthe rod home and with some trepidation, I begin to consider how I willget the stuck male out of the female ferrule. I put the section ofcaneback in the male ferrule and held it against the cane with my fingersand with the steady medium pull, that I had originally lapped theferrule for, it came apart with a nice pop.My question is why in the heck did the male ferrule pull off for them.It was a two person pull.This is my firs, and I hope last, ferrule failure. I use two ton epoxy,clean surfaces with alcohol and really rough up the inside of theferrule.Open to any ideas or suggestionsRegards, SteveIndependence, MO --------------C35F5498466AD3C9E05C1CE5-- from LambersonW@missouri.edu Fri Dec 17 10:03:32 1999 (5.5.2650.21) "'tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com'" ,"rod 'akers" Subject: was ferrules, now fly rod price $2500 may not be so unreasonable for a bamboo fly rod. The Scott rodsbenefit from national marketing and are mostly sold through retail stores.I don't know what the markup is, but let's assume that it is 50%. Thatleaves $1675. What is the cost to build the rod? With premiumcomponents,and considering depreciation of equipment and cost to maintain a shop,$300may not be far off. That leaves $1375. Working full time the builderperhaps completes 50 rods per year, yielding an income of $68,750. Thatisn't a bad income, but remember that we haven't considered federalexcisetaxes, self employment tax, income tax, retirement investment, healthinsurance, etc. While the builder may make a reasonable living, he isn'tbecoming wealthy and almost certainly could have a higher income inanotheroccupation. The bottom line is that selling quality rods for $800 isn'tgoing to yield a livable income and $1200 - $1500 is probably only goingtofeed you and give you a dry place to sleep. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: ferrules why would a bamboo rod, conventional ferrule, cost $2500? -----Original Message-----From: timothy troester [SMTP:tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com]Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 10:34 AM Subject: RE: ferrules why would a glass ferrel, installed, cost $1000? timothy --- "Lamberson, William R." wrote:The glass ferruled rods are made by Mario Wojnicki Scott. There are two models with glass ferrules. They are priced at$3500. That is about $1000 higher than their otherbamboo rods. They are.4 oz lighter than the apparently comparable rodwith conventional ferrule.Their web page ishttp://www.scottflyrod.com/sfr/Rods/cane.htm Bill Lamberson -----Original Message-----From: leroyt@involved.com Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 9:06 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: ferrules I believe that you can buy a Bamboo rod from Winstonor one of the othercommercial manufactures with fiberglass ferrules ata premium rate.Leroy....... -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Of noblerSent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 6:37 AM Subject: Re: ferrules I've only seen them on graphite rods, so far. I havea couple of flippingrods, and they have stood up well, under heavystress. It will just takesome development work, but I haven't seen any yet,as used on a cane rod. GMA ----- Original Message ----- From: BigJohn47@aol.com Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 7:55 AMSubject: ferrules hey guys and gals just wondering i read in raygoulds book that he makessome of his rods with graphite inserts well has anbodytried graphite forferrules. happy holidays to all john ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com from rsgould@cmc.net Fri Dec 17 10:10:29 1999 Subject: Re: Male ferrule pulled off Hi Steve,I guess it's confession time. I encountered the same problem when I firststarted bamboo rod building and was also using 2 ton epoxy at that time. Ifound the answer to be in three parts: First of all the ferrule must befitted tightly to the cane. A good measure of this is that the ferruleshould have to be tapped home with a wood mallet to get it all the way onand remember that a ferrule will slide on easier when the surface iswettedwith glue than when you're trying it dry. Secondly, be sure the inside ofthe ferrule is clean and that the surface to be glued is roughed up a bit,then coat the surface of the cane completely with glue and don't worryabouta little excess. You may also warm the ferrule a bit to expand the boreprior to installation but be careful not to get it too hot. And finally andmost importantly use Urethane Bond adhesive (no personal connectionhere) itis the best and I've never had a failure with it. Bind the serrated ferruleend tightly with string until the glue is well dried then remove the stringand excess glue. Urethane Bond can be purchased from Easypoxy In dustrialAdhesives (easypoxy@compuserve.com) for $3.75 per 30ml tube.Ray Gould----- Original Message ----- Subject: Male ferrule pulled off Open Question I had a rod at a local fly shop. The rod had been test cast and puttogether a number of times. The ferrules had been dressed for what Iwould consider an average pull with a solid pop. They had not beensticking. I get a call from the shop owner that a ferrule pulled off, obviously Itell her not to worry about it and that I will take care of it. I getthe rod home and with some trepidation, I begin to consider how I willget the stuck male out of the female ferrule. I put the section of caneback in the male ferrule and held it against the cane with my fingersand with the steady medium pull, that I had originally lapped theferrule for, it came apart with a nice pop. My question is why in the heck did the male ferrule pull off for them.It was a two person pull. This is my firs, and I hope last, ferrule failure. I use two ton epoxy,clean surfaces with alcohol and really rough up the inside of theferrule. Open to any ideas or suggestions Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from earsdws@duke.edu Fri Dec 17 10:32:32 1999 LAA10683; "'tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com'" ,"rod 'akers" Subject: Re: was ferrules, now fly rod price Hey,Since it is the holiday season, let's try to keep a little perspective onthese things. $2,500 for a fly rod IS outrageous considering that is anorderof magnitude more than many people in this world survive on for a year.Perhaps we have all gotten so jaded that our perspective needs more workthanour rod building skills. Might I suggest to anyone feeling the need to partwith a couple of grand and in need of a fly rod, consider paying $1,250 foranequally great can rod from an independent and donate the other $1,250 to aworthy cause. You'll feel great on the stream and in bed thinking of all thegood you've done.Just a thought,dws. "Lamberson, William R." wrote: $2500 may not be so unreasonable for a bamboo fly rod. The Scott rodsbenefit from national marketing and are mostly sold through retailstores.I don't know what the markup is, but let's assume that it is 50%. Thatleaves $1675. What is the cost to build the rod? With premiumcomponents,and considering depreciation of equipment and cost to maintain a shop,$300may not be far off. That leaves $1375. Working full time the builderperhaps completes 50 rods per year, yielding an income of $68,750. Thatisn't a bad income, but remember that we haven't considered federalexcisetaxes, self employment tax, income tax, retirement investment, healthinsurance, etc. While the builder may make a reasonable living, he isn'tbecoming wealthy and almost certainly could have a higher income inanotheroccupation. The bottom line is that selling quality rods for $800 isn'tgoing to yield a livable income and $1200 - $1500 is probably only goingtofeed you and give you a dry place to sleep. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 9:50 AM Subject: RE: ferrules why would a bamboo rod, conventional ferrule, cost $2500? -----Original Message-----From: timothy troester [SMTP:tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com]Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 10:34 AM Subject: RE: ferrules why would a glass ferrel, installed, cost $1000?timothy --- "Lamberson, William R." wrote:The glass ferruled rods are made by Mario Wojnicki Scott. There are two models with glass ferrules.They are priced at$3500. That is about $1000 higher than their otherbamboo rods. They are.4 oz lighter than the apparently comparable rodwith conventional ferrule.Their web page ishttp://www.scottflyrod.com/sfr/Rods/cane.htm Bill Lamberson -----Original Message-----From: leroyt@involved.com Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 9:06 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: ferrules I believe that you can buy a Bamboo rod from Winstonor one of the othercommercial manufactures with fiberglass ferrules ata premium rate.Leroy....... -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Of noblerSent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 6:37 AM Subject: Re: ferrules I've only seen them on graphite rods, so far. I havea couple of flippingrods, and they have stood up well, under heavystress. It will just takesome development work, but I haven't seen any yet,as used on a cane rod. GMA ----- Original Message -----From: BigJohn47@aol.com Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 7:55 AMSubject: ferrules hey guys and gals just wondering i read in raygoulds book that he makessomeof his rods with graphite inserts well has anbodytried graphite forferrules. happy holidaysto all john ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com from brewer@teleport.com Fri Dec 17 10:44:58 1999 "hamachi"via SMTP by relay1.teleport.com, id smtpdAAA059a3k; Fri Dec 1708:44:50 1999 Subject: Re: Male ferrule pulled off Steve, you might also consider pinning them. I was taught to use standardferrule cement and them pin the ferrules with nickel silver wire. Althoughthis method is very old, it allows unequaled strength (they simply can'tcome off without shredding the end of the rod) and still allows you toeasily remove the ferrule if a repair is needed. If you do a good job, thepinning is almost undetectable. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Male ferrule pulled off Open Question I had a rod at a local fly shop. The rod had been test cast and puttogether a number of times. The ferrules had been dressed for what Iwould consider an average pull with a solid pop. They had not beensticking. I get a call from the shop owner that a ferrule pulled off, obviously Itell her not to worry about it and that I will take care of it. I getthe rod home and with some trepidation, I begin to consider how I willget the stuck male out of the female ferrule. I put the section of caneback in the male ferrule and held it against the cane with my fingersand with the steady medium pull, that I had originally lapped theferrule for, it came apart with a nice pop. My question is why in the heck did the male ferrule pull off for them.It was a two person pull. This is my firs, and I hope last, ferrule failure. I use two ton epoxy,clean surfaces with alcohol and really rough up the inside of theferrule. Open to any ideas or suggestions Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Fri Dec 17 10:59:27 1999 Fri, 17 Dec 1999 11:59:13 -0500 "'tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com'","rod 'akers" Subject: RE: was ferrules, now fly rod price I'm afraid my perspective may have been misinterpreted. I don't think$2500is "too much" to charge for a fly rod, if some rich fool is willing to partwith that sum - nor, for that matter, do I think that $1000 is too much tocharge for a glass ferrule, on the same condition. It does bother me thatthe poor schmo who grows and harvests the cane we use doesn't get moreforit. Basically, I think that once you accept the idea that somebody else isgoing to make your rod for you, any price is fair that the market will bear,and the market price will bear little rational relation to the costs ofproduction (no matter what Adam Smith says.) My bias is in favor of doingit yourself. I brew my own beer, make an increasing amount of my ownfurniture, etc. etc. - home made is not only cheaper but usually better andalways more satisfying. I am - of course! - deeply grateful for the effortsof the few real craftspersons among us who do this professionally andmaintain the standards of the craft while teaching the rest of us - but formyself, unlike Terry A., I'm not nostalgic for the days of mass- produced,"affordable" cane. -----Original Message-----From: David W. Smith [SMTP:earsdws@duke.edu]Sent: Friday, December 17, 1999 11:36 AM Cc: 'SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us'; 'tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com'; rod 'akersSubject: Re: was ferrules, now fly rod price Hey,Since it is the holiday season, let's try to keep a little perspectiveonthese things. $2,500 for a fly rod IS outrageous considering that is anorderof magnitude more than many people in this world survive on for a year.Perhaps we have all gotten so jaded that our perspective needs moreworkthanour rod building skills. Might I suggest to anyone feeling the need topartwith a couple of grand and in need of a fly rod, consider paying $1,250 equally great can rod from an independent and donate the other $1,250 toaworthy cause. You'll feel great on the stream and in bed thinking of allthegood you've done.Just a thought,dws. "Lamberson, William R." wrote: $2500 may not be so unreasonable for a bamboo fly rod. The Scott rodsbenefit from national marketing and are mostly sold through retailstores.I don't know what the markup is, but let's assume that it is 50%. Thatleaves $1675. What is the cost to build the rod? With premiumcomponents,and considering depreciation of equipment and cost to maintain a shop,$300may not be far off. That leaves $1375. Working full time the builderperhaps completes 50 rods per year, yielding an income of $68,750. Thatisn't a bad income, but remember that we haven't considered federalexcisetaxes, self employment tax, income tax, retirement investment, healthinsurance, etc. While the builder may make a reasonable living, heisn'tbecoming wealthy and almost certainly could have a higher income inanotheroccupation. The bottom line is that selling quality rods for $800 isn'tgoing to yield a livable income and $1200 - $1500 is probably onlygoingtofeed you and give you a dry place to sleep. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 9:50 AM Subject: RE: ferrules why would a bamboo rod, conventional ferrule, cost $2500? -----Original Message-----From: timothy troester [SMTP:tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com]Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 10:34 AM Subject: RE: ferrules why would a glass ferrel, installed, cost $1000?timothy --- "Lamberson, William R." wrote:The glass ferruled rods are made by Mario Wojnicki Scott. There are two models with glass ferrules.They are priced at$3500. That is about $1000 higher than their otherbamboo rods. They are.4 oz lighter than the apparently comparable rodwith conventional ferrule.Their web page ishttp://www.scottflyrod.com/sfr/Rods/cane.htm Bill Lamberson -----Original Message-----From: leroyt@involved.com Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 9:06 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: ferrules I believe that you can buy a Bamboo rod from Winstonor one of the othercommercial manufactures with fiberglass ferrules ata premium rate.Leroy....... -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Of noblerSent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 6:37 AM Subject: Re: ferrules I've only seen them on graphite rods, so far. I havea couple of flippingrods, and they have stood up well, under heavystress. It will just takesome development work, but I haven't seen any yet,as used on a cane rod. GMA ----- Original Message -----From: BigJohn47@aol.com Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 7:55 AMSubject: ferrules hey guys and gals just wondering i read in raygoulds book that he makessomeof his rods with graphite inserts well has anbodytried graphite forferrules. happy holidaysto all john ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com from lars32@gateway.net Fri Dec 17 11:08:27 1999 "rod 'akers" Subject: Re: Male ferrule pulled off Good question Tim it would be nice to know if the glue failed at the caneorat the metal. I hope he answers. Dave-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Male ferrule pulled off steve, did the epoxy stick to the ferrule or to thebamboo? timothy --- Steve Trauthwein wrote:Open Question I had a rod at a local fly shop. The rod had beentest cast and puttogether a number of times. The ferrules had beendressed for what Iwould consider an average pull with a solid pop.They had not beensticking. I get a call from the shop owner that a ferrulepulled off, obviously Itell her not to worry about it and that I will takecare of it. I getthe rod home and with some trepidation, I begin toconsider how I willget the stuck male out of the female ferrule. I putthe section of caneback in the male ferrule and held it against thecane with my fingersand with the steady medium pull, that I hadoriginally lapped theferrule for, it came apart with a nice pop. My question is why in the heck did the male ferrulepull off for them.It was a two person pull. This is my firs, and I hope last, ferrule failure. Iuse two ton epoxy,clean surfaces with alcohol and really rough up theinside of theferrule. Open to any ideas or suggestions Regards, SteveIndependence, MO ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com from ROBERT.KOPE@prodigy.net Fri Dec 17 12:20:08 1999 Subject: Re: Really nice snake guides According to the ad-insert in the last Planing Form, these guides are fromDaryll Whitehead. Though I have not seen hem yet, I expect that the snakeguides are up to the same standards. Does tungsten steel wire require anyspecial care to prevent rust? -- Robert Kope -----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Really nice snake guides At 02:39 PM 12/16/1999 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote:Friends,Today's mail brought a sample selection of snake guides from acompany called "Snake Brand" fishing rod guides. Thinking about theseguides reminded me that Russ Gooding carries the same brand.Looking at these guides tells me that it is possible to makesnake guides right. They are availalble in black and bronze finishes.All the feet are flat, and the guides sit square. There are no burrs onthe feet, no blemishes in the finish. All the feet are the same length they arrive! No grinding, polishing, coloring anything. One thing Ireally like is that the feet are not overly long. My only concern is price -- at $1.35 each, the guides are notcheap. But quantity discounts are available. If anyone wants to go inwith me and make a quantity purchase, let me know off list.You can see the company's website at: http://www.snakeguides.com/ As usual, no financial interest on my part other than hoping to getsomeone to split an order with me. Harry Boyd I just got a set from Russ yesterday. Wow they are nice. The wire stockisa thinner guage than say, H&H. Unfortunateley in restoring rods I neverknow how many and what sizes I need but anyone who got involved in apurchace would be doing him/herself a favor. JMHO Yada yada.... -Doug Easton from seanmcs@ar.com.au Fri Dec 17 15:01:25 1999 Sat, 18 Dec 1999 07:59:03 +1100 Subject: Re: Male ferrule pulled off Steve: I'd be asking the rod shop if they have been twisting the rodsections while putting them together and taking them apart. Sean Steve Trauthwein wrote: Open Question I had a rod at a local fly shop. The rod had been test cast and puttogether a number of times. The ferrules had been dressed for what Iwould consider an average pull with a solid pop. They had not beensticking. I get a call from the shop owner that a ferrule pulled off, obviously Itell her not to worry about it and that I will take care of it. I getthe rod home and with some trepidation, I begin to consider how I willget the stuck male out of the female ferrule. I put the section of caneback in the male ferrule and held it against the cane with my fingersand with the steady medium pull, that I had originally lapped theferrule for, it came apart with a nice pop. My question is why in the heck did the male ferrule pull off for them.It was a two person pull. This is my firs, and I hope last, ferrule failure. I use two ton epoxy,clean surfaces with alcohol and really rough up the inside of theferrule. Open to any ideas or suggestionsRegards, SteveIndependence, MO from jhewitt@cmn.net Fri Dec 17 16:29:31 1999 Subject: Re: Male ferrule pulled off Ray...Is urethane bond heat sensative, I mean will it release under theheat from a heat gun, in case somewhere down the road you need to replace theferrule?John Ray Gould wrote: Hi Steve,I guess it's confession time. I encountered the same problem when I firststarted bamboo rod building and was also using 2 ton epoxy at that time.Ifound the answer to be in three parts: First of all the ferrule must befitted tightly to the cane. A good measure of this is that the ferruleshould have to be tapped home with a wood mallet to get it all the wayonand remember that a ferrule will slide on easier when the surface iswettedwith glue than when you're trying it dry. Secondly, be sure the inside ofthe ferrule is clean and that the surface to be glued is roughed up a bit,then coat the surface of the cane completely with glue and don't worryabouta little excess. You may also warm the ferrule a bit to expand the boreprior to installation but be careful not to get it too hot. And finally andmost importantly use Urethane Bond adhesive (no personal connectionhere) itis the best and I've never had a failure with it. Bind the serrated ferruleend tightly with string until the glue is well dried then remove thestringand excess glue. Urethane Bond can be purchased from Easypoxy IndustrialAdhesives (easypoxy@compuserve.com) for $3.75 per 30ml tube.Ray Gould----- Original Message -----From: Steve Trauthwein Sent: Friday, December 17, 1999 8:32 AMSubject: Male ferrule pulled off Open Question I had a rod at a local fly shop. The rod had been test cast and puttogether a number of times. The ferrules had been dressed for what Iwould consider an average pull with a solid pop. They had not beensticking. I get a call from the shop owner that a ferrule pulled off, obviously Itell her not to worry about it and that I will take care of it. I getthe rod home and with some trepidation, I begin to consider how I willget the stuck male out of the female ferrule. I put the section of caneback in the male ferrule and held it against the cane with my fingersand with the steady medium pull, that I had originally lapped theferrule for, it came apart with a nice pop. My question is why in the heck did the male ferrule pull off for them.It was a two person pull. This is my firs, and I hope last, ferrule failure. I use two ton epoxy,clean surfaces with alcohol and really rough up the inside of theferrule. Open to any ideas or suggestions Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from cadams46@juno.com Fri Dec 17 16:50:17 1999 17:49:40 EST Subject: Lightweight Rod I am looking for a good lightweight taper for a customer. He's after a6 to 7', lightweight 3 to 4wt. rod. Good for the smaller trout streamshere in Utah. Would appreciate any suggestions if you know of one ofthose great tapers in that range. I am looking at Cattanach's 6632, anycoments on that rod? Thanks in advance, and thanks to those who got thelist back up and running and keep it running.C.R. Adams from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Dec 17 17:02:43 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 17 Dec 1999 16:54:18 -0600 Subject: Re: Lightweight Rod boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0047_01BF48B0.99138320" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01BF48B0.99138320 It would be hard to beat the PHY Midge, in that size class ! GMA Sent: Friday, December 17, 1999 4:51 PMSubject: Lightweight Rod I am looking for a good lightweight taper for a customer. He's after =a6 to 7', lightweight 3 to 4wt. rod. Good for the smaller trout =streamshere in Utah. Would appreciate any suggestions if you know of one ofthose great tapers in that range. I am looking at Cattanach's 6632, =anycoments on that rod? Thanks in advance, and thanks to those who got =thelist back up and running and keep it running.C.R. Adams ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01BF48B0.99138320 It would be hard to beat the PHY Midge, in = class ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- Chase R = = Sent: Friday, December 17, 1999= PMSubject: Lightweight RodI am looking for a good lightweight taper for a = = running.C.R. Adams ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01BF48B0.99138320-- from channer@outerbounds.net Fri Dec 17 17:42:19 1999 taz.outerbounds.net(Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.2) with ESMTP id;Fri, 17 Dec 1999 16:42:02 -0700 Subject: Re: Lightweight Rod Another Midge fan, I will second that!John from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Dec 17 17:57:10 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 17 Dec 1999 17:48:45 -0600 Subject: Fw: was ferrules, now fly rod price boundary="----=_NextPart_000_009F_01BF48B8.345792C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_009F_01BF48B8.345792C0 Subject: Re: was ferrules, now fly rod price I simply can't get excited about how poor other countries are, or how =little their labor is paid. This very fact is eroding our own national =out put, and survival ! In my industry, we have some of the finest =products made anywhere, sitting on shelves, or at the factories, while =cheaper, and mostly inferior products sell in high volume. I am among those who believe in making a better product, and selling it = ! Unfortunately, it appears we are governed by prostitutes, in more than =one way. If we would charge the amount of import tax, levied on our =products abroad, the price differential would narrow considerably ! Lets' face it, a fine cane rod is a real luxury, and many of us here =can't afford the even near best ! Besides the love of hand crafting, =many of us want to build, what we can't afford ! Shoot, if money were no = GRIN, grin, GMA Cc: 'SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us' ; 'tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com' ; rod 'akers = Sent: Friday, December 17, 1999 10:35 AMSubject: Re: was ferrules, now fly rod price Hey,Since it is the holiday season, let's try to keep a little =perspective onthese things. $2,500 for a fly rod IS outrageous considering that is =an orderof magnitude more than many people in this world survive on for a =year.Perhaps we have all gotten so jaded that our perspective needs more =work thanour rod building skills. Might I suggest to anyone feeling the need =to partwith a couple of grand and in need of a fly rod, consider paying =$1,250 for anequally great can rod from an independent and donate the other $1,250 =to aworthy cause. You'll feel great on the stream and in bed thinking of =all thegood you've done.Just a thought,dws. "Lamberson, William R." wrote: $2500 may not be so unreasonable for a bamboo fly rod. The Scott =rodsbenefit from national marketing and are mostly sold through retail =stores.I don't know what the markup is, but let's assume that it is 50%. =Thatleaves $1675. What is the cost to build the rod? With premium =components,and considering depreciation of equipment and cost to maintain a =shop, $300may not be far off. That leaves $1375. Working full time the =builderperhaps completes 50 rods per year, yielding an income of $68,750. =Thatisn't a bad income, but remember that we haven't considered federal =excisetaxes, self employment tax, income tax, retirement investment, =healthinsurance, etc. While the builder may make a reasonable living, he =isn'tbecoming wealthy and almost certainly could have a higher income in =anotheroccupation. The bottom line is that selling quality rods for $800 =isn'tgoing to yield a livable income and $1200 - $1500 is probably only =going tofeed you and give you a dry place to sleep. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 9:50 AM Subject: RE: ferrules why would a bamboo rod, conventional ferrule, cost $2500? -----Original Message-----From: timothy troester [SMTP:tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com]Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 10:34 AM Subject: RE: ferrules why would a glass ferrel, installed, cost $1000?timothy --- "Lamberson, William R." wrote:The glass ferruled rods are made by Mario Wojnicki Scott. There are two models with glass ferrules.They are priced at$3500. That is about $1000 higher than their otherbamboo rods. They are.4 oz lighter than the apparently comparable rodwith conventional ferrule.Their web page ishttp://www.scottflyrod.com/sfr/Rods/cane.htm Bill Lamberson -----Original Message-----From: leroyt@involved.com Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 9:06 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: ferrules I believe that you can buy a Bamboo rod from Winstonor one of the othercommercial manufactures with fiberglass ferrules ata premium rate.Leroy....... -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Of noblerSent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 6:37 AM Subject: Re: ferrules I've only seen them on graphite rods, so far. I havea couple of flippingrods, and they have stood up well, under heavystress. It will just takesome development work, but I haven't seen any yet,as used on a cane rod. GMA ----- Original Message -----From: BigJohn47@aol.com Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 7:55 AMSubject: ferrules hey guys and gals just wondering i read in raygoulds book that he makessomeof his rods with graphite inserts well has anbodytried graphite forferrules. happy holidaysto all john =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D"Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ------=_NextPart_000_009F_01BF48B8.345792C0 From:nobler = Sent: Friday, December 17, 1999 5:17 PMSubject: Re: was ferrules, now fly rod price I simply can't get excited about how poor = our own national out put, and survival ! In my industry, we have some of = finest products made anywhere, sitting on shelves, or at the factories, = cheaper, and mostly inferior products sell in high =volume. I am among those who believe in making a= product, and selling it for more money ! If a product is over-priced, = decide its fate ! Unfortunately, it appears we are governed prostitutes, in more than one way. If we would charge the amount of import tax, levied on our = abroad, the price differential would narrow considerably =! Lets' face it, a fine cane rod is a real = many of us here can't afford the even near best ! Besides the love of = crafting, many of us want to build, what we can't afford ! Shoot, if = no object, I'd order one of EACH ! GRIN, grin, GMA ----- Original Message ----- DavidW. = 'akers Sent: Friday, December 17, 1999= AMSubject: Re: was ferrules, now = price fly rod IS outrageous considering that is an orderof magnitude = many people in this world survive on for a year.Perhaps we have = so jaded that our perspective needs more work thanour rod building = anequally great can rod from an independent and donate the other = = = = rodmakers@wugate.w= rodmakers@w= ------=_NextPart_000_009F_01BF48B8.345792C0-- from saltwein@swbell.net Fri Dec 17 19:45:23 1999 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with ESMTP id for Subject: Ferrule pulloff/part 2 Open Question, The epoxy was all on the rod section, and it was as smooth as theproverbial babies bottom. I hand fit my ferrules and do it in a manner that the ferrule will justslide on to the bamboo. I then get all of my equipment ready and start then roughen the inside of the ferrule with a narrow round file. I dothis vigorously. When I am at this point I clean the ferrule with a swab and alcohol. After the excess alcohol has had a chance to evaporate I mix my epoxy(Devcon Two Ton, with automatic dispenser) and slather it on the bambooand into the ferrule and then immediately place the ferrule on thebamboo and press it against the side of my work bench to acquire thefit. As soon as the ferrule is homed I wrap it with a bobbin I use forthis purpose, which holds a spool of craft and button thread. Thesection is then set aside for at least a day. My humidity in the shop usually runs from 30 to 50 percent and thetemperature from 70 to 85. As far as twisting the sections of the bamboo in putting the rodtogether or taking it apart, I don't really know how it was done. Itseems to me that it would be difficult for two people to exert astraight pull in any circumstance. When I posted the first message the item that really intrigued me wasthat I had no problem removing the male ferrule from the female, evenwithout the advantage of glue adhesion and thread wraps. I have become familiar the two ton epoxy and was beginning to trust it.I am not stuck on it (no pun intended) and really do not want anotherfailure, so if there is more info to be had I would appreciate any andall input. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from rsgould@cmc.net Fri Dec 17 19:54:03 1999 Subject: Re: Lightweight Rod boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01BF48B7.A88D22A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BF48B7.A88D22A0 Hi Chase,I'm attaching a file you might find useful in your consideration as to whattaper to build for your customer who wants a 6 to 7 ft rod in the 3/4 wtdesign. What is shown in the file is a chart comparing the taper of aLeonard 7ft 38ACM x 4wt with two of my own tapers nos RR-108 x 7ft x2pc x4wt and RR-134-6ft x 2pc x 5wt. The RR108 model has attracted a lot ofinterest at rod building workshops and many have said they really like thetaper and rod action. With small rods like these it's a good idea to makethe reel seat out of cork and use sliding bands to keep the weight down.Ray Gould----- Original Message ----- Subject: Lightweight Rod I am looking for a good lightweight taper for a customer. He's after a6 to 7', lightweight 3 to 4wt. rod. Good for the smaller trout streamshere in Utah. Would appreciate any suggestions if you know of one ofthose great tapers in that range. I am looking at Cattanach's 6632, anycoments on that rod? Thanks in advance, and thanks to those who got thelist back up and running and keep it running.C.R. Adams from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Fri Dec 17 20:01:26 1999 Subject: Re: Ferrule pulloff/part 2 Were both the people who seperated the sections familiar with bamboo? Icansee one person holding the butt section with their hand on the ferrule.However, instead of just holding the female section they were holdingboththe male and female ferrules. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Ferrule pulloff/part 2 Open Question, The epoxy was all on the rod section, and it was as smooth as theproverbial babies bottom. I hand fit my ferrules and do it in a manner that the ferrule will justslide on to the bamboo. I then get all of my equipment ready and start then roughen the inside of the ferrule with a narrow round file. I dothis vigorously. When I am at this point I clean the ferrule with a swab and alcohol. After the excess alcohol has had a chance to evaporate I mix my epoxy(Devcon Two Ton, with automatic dispenser) and slather it on the bambooand into the ferrule and then immediately place the ferrule on thebamboo and press it against the side of my work bench to acquire thefit. As soon as the ferrule is homed I wrap it with a bobbin I use forthis purpose, which holds a spool of craft and button thread. Thesection is then set aside for at least a day. My humidity in the shop usually runs from 30 to 50 percent and thetemperature from 70 to 85. As far as twisting the sections of the bamboo in putting the rodtogether or taking it apart, I don't really know how it was done. Itseems to me that it would be difficult for two people to exert astraight pull in any circumstance. When I posted the first message the item that really intrigued me wasthat I had no problem removing the male ferrule from the female, evenwithout the advantage of glue adhesion and thread wraps. I have become familiar the two ton epoxy and was beginning to trust it.I am not stuck on it (no pun intended) and really do not want anotherfailure, so if there is more info to be had I would appreciate any andall input. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from jczimny@dol.net Fri Dec 17 20:53:22 1999 Subject: Re: Ferrule pulloff/part 2 It is possible that flux was still present in the ferrule when you appliedthe epoxy. I know that alchohol will not usually remove it. Perhaps youshould consider putting your ferrules in a "pickeling" solution.I know that epoxy will not bond well to metal that is contaminated byflux. John Z Steve Trauthwein wrote: Open Question, The epoxy was all on the rod section, and it was as smooth as theproverbial babies bottom. I hand fit my ferrules and do it in a manner that the ferrule will justslide on to the bamboo. I then get all of my equipment ready and start then roughen the inside of the ferrule with a narrow round file. I dothis vigorously. When I am at this point I clean the ferrule with a swab and alcohol. After the excess alcohol has had a chance to evaporate I mix my epoxy(Devcon Two Ton, with automatic dispenser) and slather it on the bambooand into the ferrule and then immediately place the ferrule on thebamboo and press it against the side of my work bench to acquire thefit. As soon as the ferrule is homed I wrap it with a bobbin I use forthis purpose, which holds a spool of craft and button thread. Thesection is then set aside for at least a day. My humidity in the shop usually runs from 30 to 50 percent and thetemperature from 70 to 85. As far as twisting the sections of the bamboo in putting the rodtogether or taking it apart, I don't really know how it was done. Itseems to me that it would be difficult for two people to exert astraight pull in any circumstance. When I posted the first message the item that really intrigued me wasthat I had no problem removing the male ferrule from the female, evenwithout the advantage of glue adhesion and thread wraps. I have become familiar the two ton epoxy and was beginning to trust it.I am not stuck on it (no pun intended) and really do not want anotherfailure, so if there is more info to be had I would appreciate any andall input. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Dec 17 20:57:46 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 17 Dec 1999 20:49:22 -0600 Subject: Re: Ferrule pulloff/part 2 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_014D_01BF48D1.6FA4CFA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_014D_01BF48D1.6FA4CFA0 The fact that all the epoxy was on the cane, says you didn't have the =metal surface "wet". By this I mean it didn't adhere to the metal well. =I'm going out in the morning, to get some of this urethane glue, and do =some tests. I've heard too many good reports about it. There's one thing about preparing metal for glue, and that's to degrease =well, THEN scratch up the surface well, and let nothing else touch it, =except the glue that goes on ! This way the glue is getting on raw =metal, with nothing there, to let it release later. GMA Sent: Friday, December 17, 1999 9:46 PMSubject: Ferrule pulloff/part 2 Open Question, The epoxy was all on the rod section, and it was as smooth as theproverbial babies bottom. I hand fit my ferrules and do it in a manner that the ferrule will =justslide on to the bamboo. I then get all of my equipment ready and start then roughen the inside of the ferrule with a narrow round file. I dothis vigorously. When I am at this point I clean the ferrule with a swab and alcohol. After the excess alcohol has had a chance to evaporate I mix my epoxy(Devcon Two Ton, with automatic dispenser) and slather it on the =bambooand into the ferrule and then immediately place the ferrule on thebamboo and press it against the side of my work bench to acquire thefit. As soon as the ferrule is homed I wrap it with a bobbin I use forthis purpose, which holds a spool of craft and button thread. Thesection is then set aside for at least a day. My humidity in the shop usually runs from 30 to 50 percent and thetemperature from 70 to 85. As far as twisting the sections of the bamboo in putting the rodtogether or taking it apart, I don't really know how it was done. Itseems to me that it would be difficult for two people to exert astraight pull in any circumstance. When I posted the first message the item that really intrigued me wasthat I had no problem removing the male ferrule from the female, evenwithout the advantage of glue adhesion and thread wraps. I have become familiar the two ton epoxy and was beginning to trust =it.I am not stuck on it (no pun intended) and really do not want anotherfailure, so if there is more info to be had I would appreciate any andall input. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO ------=_NextPart_000_014D_01BF48D1.6FA4CFA0 The fact that all the epoxy was on thecane, = didn't have the metal surface "wet". By this I mean it didn't adhere to = metal well. I'm going out in the morning, to get some of this urethane = do some tests. I've heard too many good reports about =it. There's one thing about preparing metal for= that's to degrease well, THEN scratch up the surface well, and let = touch it, except the glue that goes on ! This way the glue is getting on = metal, with nothing there, to let it release =later. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Trauthwein Sent: Friday, December 17, 1999= PMSubject: Ferrule pulloff/part =2Open Question,The epoxy was all on the rod = it was as smooth as theproverbial babies bottom.I hand fit= ferrules and do it in a manner that the ferrule will justslide on = bamboo. I then get all of my equipment ready and startby making a = in the bamboo to allow epoxy an exit route. I willthen roughen the = of the ferrule with a narrow round file. I dothis = I am at this point I clean the ferrule with a swab and = the excess alcohol has had a chance to evaporate I mix my = Ton, with automatic dispenser) and slather it on the bambooand = ferrule and then immediately place the ferrule on thebamboo and = against the side of my work bench to acquire thefit. As soon as = ferrule is homed I wrap it with a bobbin I use forthis = set aside for at least a day.My humidity in the shop usually = 30 to 50 percent and thetemperature from 70 to 85.As far = twisting the sections of the bamboo in putting the rodtogether or = it apart, I don't really know how it was done. Itseems to me that = circumstance.When I posted the first message the item that = intrigued me wasthat I had no problem removing the male ferrule = wraps.I have become familiar the two ton epoxy and was = want anotherfailure, so if there is more info to be had I would = MO ------=_NextPart_000_014D_01BF48D1.6FA4CFA0-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Dec 17 21:36:15 1999 Sat, 18 Dec 1999 11:35:48 +0800 Subject: Re: Male ferrule pulled off Did you clean the ferrules well before placing them? I clean first withdetergent then wash and clean with HCL. This may be a lot more thannessaryof course but the ferrules stay in place.Possibly you could also try roughing ip the inside surface? Tony At 08:32 AM 12/17/99 -0800, Steve Trauthwein wrote:Open Question I had a rod at a local fly shop. The rod had been test cast and puttogether a number of times. The ferrules had been dressed for what Iwould consider an average pull with a solid pop. They had not beensticking. I get a call from the shop owner that a ferrule pulled off, obviously Itell her not to worry about it and that I will take care of it. I getthe rod home and with some trepidation, I begin to consider how I willget the stuck male out of the female ferrule. I put the section of caneback in the male ferrule and held it against the cane with my fingersand with the steady medium pull, that I had originally lapped theferrule for, it came apart with a nice pop. My question is why in the heck did the male ferrule pull off for them.It was a two person pull. This is my firs, and I hope last, ferrule failure. I use two ton epoxy,clean surfaces with alcohol and really rough up the inside of theferrule. Open to any ideas or suggestions Regards, SteveIndependence, MO /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Dec 17 21:58:35 1999 Sat, 18 Dec 1999 11:58:22 +0800 Subject: Re: Ferrule pulloff/part 2 Is there any chance the bamboo became contaminated with oils of any typeordamp? Tony At 07:46 PM 12/17/99 -0800, Steve Trauthwein wrote:Open Question, The epoxy was all on the rod section, and it was as smooth as theproverbial babies bottom. I hand fit my ferrules and do it in a manner that the ferrule will justslide on to the bamboo. I then get all of my equipment ready and start then roughen the inside of the ferrule with a narrow round file. I dothis vigorously. When I am at this point I clean the ferrule with a swab and alcohol. After the excess alcohol has had a chance to evaporate I mix my epoxy(Devcon Two Ton, with automatic dispenser) and slather it on the bambooand into the ferrule and then immediately place the ferrule on thebamboo and press it against the side of my work bench to acquire thefit. As soon as the ferrule is homed I wrap it with a bobbin I use forthis purpose, which holds a spool of craft and button thread. Thesection is then set aside for at least a day. My humidity in the shop usually runs from 30 to 50 percent and thetemperature from 70 to 85. As far as twisting the sections of the bamboo in putting the rodtogether or taking it apart, I don't really know how it was done. Itseems to me that it would be difficult for two people to exert astraight pull in any circumstance. When I posted the first message the item that really intrigued me wasthat I had no problem removing the male ferrule from the female, evenwithout the advantage of glue adhesion and thread wraps. I have become familiar the two ton epoxy and was beginning to trust it.I am not stuck on it (no pun intended) and really do not want anotherfailure, so if there is more info to be had I would appreciate any andall input. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Dec 17 22:31:35 1999 Fri, 17 Dec 1999 20:31:30 -0800 Subject: Re: Ferrule pulloff/part 2 Steve-o,Try some different glue. Several of us have had problems with theDevcon two-ton, although others swear by it. I like the blue/clear stuff Imentioned earlier (rec. by C. Bogart) Harry Steve Trauthwein wrote: Open Question, The epoxy was all on the rod section, and it was as smooth as theproverbial babies bottom. I hand fit my ferrules and do it in a manner that the ferrule will justslide on to the bamboo. I then get all of my equipment ready and start then roughen the inside of the ferrule with a narrow round file. I dothis vigorously. When I am at this point I clean the ferrule with a swab and alcohol. After the excess alcohol has had a chance to evaporate I mix my epoxy(Devcon Two Ton, with automatic dispenser) and slather it on the bambooand into the ferrule and then immediately place the ferrule on thebamboo and press it against the side of my work bench to acquire thefit. As soon as the ferrule is homed I wrap it with a bobbin I use forthis purpose, which holds a spool of craft and button thread. Thesection is then set aside for at least a day. My humidity in the shop usually runs from 30 to 50 percent and thetemperature from 70 to 85. As far as twisting the sections of the bamboo in putting the rodtogether or taking it apart, I don't really know how it was done. Itseems to me that it would be difficult for two people to exert astraight pull in any circumstance. When I posted the first message the item that really intrigued me wasthat I had no problem removing the male ferrule from the female, evenwithout the advantage of glue adhesion and thread wraps. I have become familiar the two ton epoxy and was beginning to trust it.I am not stuck on it (no pun intended) and really do not want anotherfailure, so if there is more info to be had I would appreciate any andall input. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from saltwein@swbell.net Sat Dec 18 05:41:54 1999 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with ESMTP id for Subject: Re: Ferrule pulloff/part 2 John, What would be considered a good pickling solution? "J. C. Zimny" wrote: It is possible that flux was still present in the ferrule when you appliedthe epoxy. I know that alchohol will not usually remove it. Perhaps youshould consider putting your ferrules in a "pickeling" solution.I know that epoxy will not bond well to metal that is contaminated byflux. John Z Steve Trauthwein wrote: Open Question, The epoxy was all on the rod section, and it was as smooth as theproverbial babies bottom. I hand fit my ferrules and do it in a manner that the ferrule will justslide on to the bamboo. I then get all of my equipment ready and start then roughen the inside of the ferrule with a narrow round file. I dothis vigorously. When I am at this point I clean the ferrule with a swab and alcohol. After the excess alcohol has had a chance to evaporate I mix my epoxy(Devcon Two Ton, with automatic dispenser) and slather it on thebambooand into the ferrule and then immediately place the ferrule on thebamboo and press it against the side of my work bench to acquire thefit. As soon as the ferrule is homed I wrap it with a bobbin I use forthis purpose, which holds a spool of craft and button thread. Thesection is then set aside for at least a day. My humidity in the shop usually runs from 30 to 50 percent and thetemperature from 70 to 85. As far as twisting the sections of the bamboo in putting the rodtogether or taking it apart, I don't really know how it was done. Itseems to me that it would be difficult for two people to exert astraight pull in any circumstance. When I posted the first message the item that really intrigued me wasthat I had no problem removing the male ferrule from the female, evenwithout the advantage of glue adhesion and thread wraps. I have become familiar the two ton epoxy and was beginning to trust it.I am not stuck on it (no pun intended) and really do not want anotherfailure, so if there is more info to be had I would appreciate any andall input. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from jczimny@dol.net Sat Dec 18 07:54:30 1999 Subject: Re: Ferrule pulloff/part 2 I use a product called Nickel-Silver Pickel fron the Laney Company inOklahoma.I've lost their address but you can get it out of any Rock and Gem Magazine.I make most of my own ferrules from tube. There is always some residualflux inthe ferule.It can cause real problems with any adhesive.John Z from fquinchat@locl.net Sat Dec 18 09:16:57 1999 corsair.locl.net(8.9.0/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA28207; Sat, 18 Dec 1999 10:14:33 -0500 Subject: Decals boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01BF4941.898BB6C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BF4941.898BB6C0 I tried Terry Kirkpatrick's suggestion concerning model decals. Although it is touchy, it seems to work just fine for black and white =lables printed on my ink jet printer. The process I use is 3 very thin coats of spray poly varnish on the =decal material. Then I print the lable. Then 3 more spray coats. Then =soak in water and apply the decal to the rod that has already had the =first coat of varnish. You honestly can not see the outline of the =decal. I've tried the same process with color however it runs as soon as it =touches water. Any Ideas? Dennis Bertram ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BF4941.898BB6C0 I tried Terry Kirkpatrick's = concerning model decals. Although it is touchy, it seems to= fine for black and white lables printed on my ink jet =printer. The process I use is 3 very thin = the outline of the decal. I've tried the same process with = Dennis =Bertram ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BF4941.898BB6C0-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Dec 18 10:39:06 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sat, 18 Dec 1999 10:30:35 -0600 Subject: Re: Decals boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01BF4944.29229800" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BF4944.29229800 You say decals. Is someone making decals that re-pro the old rod makers =? The old Montague, and H-I decals would be neat, not to mention Heddon. GMA Sent: Saturday, December 18, 1999 9:20 AMSubject: Decals I tried Terry Kirkpatrick's suggestion concerning model decals. Although it is touchy, it seems to work just fine for black and white =lables printed on my ink jet printer. The process I use is 3 very thin coats of spray poly varnish on the =decal material. Then I print the lable. Then 3 more spray coats. Then =soak in water and apply the decal to the rod that has already had the =first coat of varnish. You honestly can not see the outline of the =decal. I've tried the same process with color however it runs as soon as it =touches water. Any Ideas? Dennis Bertram ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BF4944.29229800 You say decals. Is someone making decals = the old rod makers ? The old Montague, and H-I decals would be neat, not = mention Heddon. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Bertram Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Saturday, December 18, = AMSubject: Decals I tried Terry Kirkpatrick's = concerning model decals. Although it is touchy, it seemsto = fine for black and white lables printed on my ink jet =printer. The process I use is 3 very thin= can not see the outline of the decal. I've tried the same process with= Bertram ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BF4944.29229800-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Dec 18 11:47:34 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sat, 18 Dec 1999 11:47:51 -0600 Subject: PHY Midge boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01BF494D.BD282F20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BF494D.BD282F20 I have now taken all the dimensions for the guide spacing, and grip/reel =seat for Paul Young's Midge, a 6'-3" little powerhouse. I also have 3 =photos, showing his skeleton reel seat, etc.. Anyone who is interested, =need only let me know, and I'll send copy to them, back channel. GMA ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BF494D.BD282F20 I have now taken all the dimensions for the= spacing, and grip/reel seat for Paul Young's Midge, a 6'-3" little = channel. GMA ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BF494D.BD282F20-- from darrell@rockclimbing.org Sat Dec 18 12:03:23 1999 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: GW Bishop Gathering Photos... Better late than never... www.bamboorods.homepage.com Click on GW Bishop Gathering... Happy Holidays! Darrell Lee from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Sat Dec 18 12:38:29 1999 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id HAA21626; Sun, 19 Dec 1999 07:37:56 +1300 Subject: Re: Info please Tim, Just another thought. The M Rogan name may to the name of the owner oftherod rather then associated with the maker. Ian Kearney The At 10:19 PM 16/12/99 -0000, Watson's wrote:Ihave recently been given a rod. Clearly it is very old, it is made fromdark wood and is in 3 pieces,the handle is made from leather stiched around brass reel fittings. Lookslike a salmon rod of some sort, judging from its handle. The butt stopperhasCummins Bishop Aukland on it and the brass reel fitting has M RoganBallyshannon stamped on it. the rod is @10-11 ft.Any houghtsThanks Tim. Ihave recently been given a rod. Clearly itisvery old, it is made from dark wood and is in 3 pieces,the handle is made from leather stiched around brass reel fittings. Looks like a salmon rod ofsome sort, judging from its handle. The butt stopper hasCummins BishopAuklandon it and the brass reel fitting has M Rogan Ballyshannon stamped on it. the rodis @10-11 ft.Any houghtsThanks Tim. from anglport@con2.com Sat Dec 18 13:07:09 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id AB5017950290; Sat, 18 Dec 1999 14:06:56 -0500 Subject: Re: GW Bishop Gathering Photos... Darrell,Went to your picture site. Great pix, but the if you think those thingsinthe one labelled "Some Rods" are rods you'd better get outta the biz;you're going to lose your shirt! (I have some wonderful ones in PVC andABSyou'll love.) *BSEG*Art At 10:02 AM 12/18/1999 -0800, Darrell A. Lee wrote:Better late than never... www.bamboorods.homepage.com Click on GW Bishop Gathering... Happy Holidays! Darrell Lee *Some people can tell what time it is by looking at the sun, but I never have been able to make out the numbers.* from darrell@rockclimbing.org Sat Dec 18 13:31:49 1999 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: GW Bishop Gathering Photos... Okay... pretend that one says... "Some rod tubes"... Sticks and stones may break my bones... so don't throw sticks or stones...8^) Darrell -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: GW Bishop Gathering Photos... Darrell,Went to your picture site. Great pix, but the if you think those thingsinthe one labelled "Some Rods" are rods you'd better get outta the biz;you're going to lose your shirt! (I have some wonderful ones in PVC andABSyou'll love.) *BSEG*Art At 10:02 AM 12/18/1999 -0800, Darrell A. Lee wrote:Better late than never... www.bamboorods.homepage.com Click on GW Bishop Gathering... Happy Holidays! Darrell Lee *Some people can tell what time it is by looking at the sun,but I never have been able to make out the numbers.* from darrell@rockclimbing.org Sat Dec 18 13:49:19 1999 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: GW Bishop Gathering Photos... =?iso-8859-1?Q?Carsten_J=F8rgensen?= Well, I was a bit preoccupied with some other goings on... maybe one of theothers can better comment on the operation of the JW Beveller... Darrell -----Original Message----- Subject: Sv: GW Bishop Gathering Photos... Hi Darrell Nice pics. from Your gathering. Makes me envy You guys across the pondwhoseems toorganize such events several times a year. Noticed the picture of the beveller. I have seen pics and drawings on ChrisBogarts site,but can't quite tell, how the strip is being guided in order to be centeredbelow the router.Could You please shed some light on this? regards,Carsten from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Sat Dec 18 14:30:36 1999 with ESMTP id ;Sat, 18 Dec 1999 20:30:01 +0000 Subject: Re: GW Bishop Gathering Photos... Does anyone know if the pix from the September Gathering in BoilingSprings, PA were posted anywhere? Just curions... Dennis Art Port wrote: Darrell,Went to your picture site. Great pix, but the if you think thosethings inthe one labelled "Some Rods" are rods you'd better get outta the biz;you're going to lose your shirt! (I have some wonderful ones in PVC andABSyou'll love.) *BSEG*Art At 10:02 AM 12/18/1999 -0800, Darrell A. Lee wrote:Better late than never... www.bamboorods.homepage.com Click on GW Bishop Gathering... Happy Holidays! Darrell Lee *Some people can tell what time it is by looking at the sun,but I never have been able to make out the numbers.* from darrell@rockclimbing.org Sat Dec 18 14:50:12 1999 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: Bevellers To be quite honest... I never visualized that I would buy or make a beveller comment... It sure worked neat and everyone seemed quite impressed...perhaps others can comment? Darrell"the Dunce" ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Bevellers Darrell,You're the only guy I know of who's seen both the Medved and JWbevellers. from the picture at your site they look quite similar. Are they?ThanksArtps: Even if the stones I throw are agates? *Some people can tell what time it is by looking at the sun,but I never have been able to make out the numbers.* from bob@downandacross.com Sat Dec 18 14:58:16 1999 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Subject: decals In the vintage guitar market, repro decal availability has cheated a lot of people out of their hard earned cash. Only restorers and ethical types should have them. Many have tried to pass of phonies as the real McCoy (or Fender). The decals are great to have when used right. A neat idea.Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Dec 18 15:22:04 1999 MicrosoftSMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sat, 18 Dec 1999 15:22:21 -0600 Subject: Re: decals boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0080_01BF496B.B23AF5C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0080_01BF496B.B23AF5C0 I have a number of original rods, with only portions remaining of the =original decals. It would be nice to have all of the decals there, when =restoring one as close to "shelf" as possible. GMA Sent: Saturday, December 18, 1999 2:56 PMSubject: decals In the vintage guitar market, repro decal availability has cheated a = of people out of their hard earned cash. Only restorers and ethical = should have them. Many have tried to pass of phonies as the real McCoy = Fender). The decals are great to have when used right. A neat idea.Bob Maulucci==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= downandacross.combob@downandacross.com ------=_NextPart_000_0080_01BF496B.B23AF5C0 I have a number of original rods, with only= remaining of the original decals. It would be nice to have all of the = there, when restoring one as close to "shelf" as =possible. GMA ----- Original Message ----- maulucci = Sent: Saturday, December 18, = PMSubject: decals has cheated a lot of people out of their hard earned cash. Only = and ethical types should have them. Many have tried to pass of = the real McCoy (or Fender). The decals are great to have when used = =Maulucci=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3Ddownandacross.combob@downandacross.com ------=_NextPart_000_0080_01BF496B.B23AF5C0-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Dec 18 15:27:00 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sat, 18 Dec 1999 15:27:17 -0600 Subject: Re: GW Bishop Gathering Photos... boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B4_01BF496C.646CA2C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B4_01BF496C.646CA2C0 All who would like the PHY Midge details, and photos, please reply with =your Email address, so I can forward it all at one time. Thanks, GMA Sent: Saturday, December 18, 1999 1:28 PMSubject: RE: GW Bishop Gathering Photos... Okay... pretend that one says... "Some rod tubes"... Sticks and stones may break my bones... so don't throw sticks or =stones...8^) Darrell -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, December 18, 1999 11:08 AM Subject: Re: GW Bishop Gathering Photos... Darrell,Went to your picture site. Great pix, but the if you think those =things inthe one labelled "Some Rods" are rods you'd better get outta the biz;you're going to lose your shirt! (I have some wonderful ones in PVC =and ABSyou'll love.) *BSEG*Art At 10:02 AM 12/18/1999 -0800, Darrell A. Lee wrote:Better late than never... www.bamboorods.homepage.com Click on GW Bishop Gathering... Happy Holidays! Darrell Lee *Some people can tell what time it is by looking at the sun,but I never have been able to make out the numbers.* ------=_NextPart_000_00B4_01BF496C.646CA2C0 All who would like the PHY Midge details, = time. Thanks, GMA ----- Original Message ----- Darrell A. Lee = Sent: Saturday, December 18, = PMSubject: RE: GW Bishop = Photos... tubes"...Sticks and stones may break my bones... so don't = or stones...8^)Darrell-----Original = owner-rodmakers@wugate.w= rodmakers@w= Behalf Of Art PortSent: Saturday, December 18, 1999 11:08 = =rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Re: GW Bishop Gathering Photos...Darrell,Went to your = site. Great pix, but the if you think those things inthe one = "Some Rods" are rods you'd better get outta the biz;you're going = your shirt! (I have some wonderful ones in PVC and ABSyou'll = *BSEG*ArtAt 10:02 AM 12/18/1999 -0800, Darrell A. it = out the numbers.* ------=_NextPart_000_00B4_01BF496C.646CA2C0-- from cadams46@juno.com Sat Dec 18 15:50:54 1999 16:50:01 EST Subject: Garrison Reel Seat Thanks for the suggestions on the lightweight taper especially Mr. GMA. I was thinking about using the Garrison Skeleton Reel Seat that Rec sellswith the cork insert. Has anyone ever used that particular seat? Andhow do the cork inserts hold up to years of sliding your reel in and out?Should I just go with a lightweight wood insert? ThanksSincerely,C.R. Adams from yves@dancris.com Sat Dec 18 16:50:30 1999 Sat, 18 Dec 1999 15:49:25 -0700 message Subject: Re: Ferrule pulloff/part 2 Steve: I've come in at the middle of this, but although a novice rodmaker, mightsuggest golf club shafting epoxy, available from Golfsmith (see golfsmith.com; noconnection with them..etc) They also have epoxy beads - these are mixedin with theepoxy to fill voids. I've never had a club head come off. Dave La Touche ----------Open Question, The epoxy was all on the rod section, and it was as smooth as theproverbial babies bottom. I hand fit my ferrules and do it in a manner that the ferrule will justslide on to the bamboo. I then get all of my equipment ready and start then roughen the inside of the ferrule with a narrow round file. I dothis vigorously. When I am at this point I clean the ferrule with a swab and alcohol. After the excess alcohol has had a chance to evaporate I mix my epoxy(Devcon Two Ton, with automatic dispenser) and slather it on the bambooand into the ferrule and then immediately place the ferrule on thebamboo and press it against the side of my work bench to acquire thefit. As soon as the ferrule is homed I wrap it with a bobbin I use forthis purpose, which holds a spool of craft and button thread. Thesection is then set aside for at least a day. My humidity in the shop usually runs from 30 to 50 percent and thetemperature from 70 to 85. As far as twisting the sections of the bamboo in putting the rodtogether or taking it apart, I don't really know how it was done. Itseems to me that it would be difficult for two people to exert astraight pull in any circumstance. When I posted the first message the item that really intrigued me wasthat I had no problem removing the male ferrule from the female, evenwithout the advantage of glue adhesion and thread wraps. I have become familiar the two ton epoxy and was beginning to trust it.I am not stuck on it (no pun intended) and really do not want anotherfailure, so if there is more info to be had I would appreciate any andall input. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Dec 18 20:26:56 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sat, 18 Dec 1999 20:18:30 -0600 Subject: Re: PHY MIdge guide spacing, and details boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01BF4996.4B468CA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BF4996.4B468CA0 I hope I'm sending this info out to the list, without the attachments, =which I hope I've sent to all that asked. I never dreamed I would get so =many requests, so didn't handle it very well. Anyone who missed the photos, please let me know, and I'll get them off =to you. GMAGeorge Aldrich Sent: Saturday, December 18, 1999 7:48 PMSubject: Fw: Lightweight Rod Sent: Saturday, December 18, 1999 11:37 AMSubject: Re: Lightweight Rod Here is the guide spacing on the PHY Midge. Starting at the tip: 5", 6-3/8" 6-13/16", 6-7/16", 7-7/8", 5-1/2", to =end of male ferrule. Male portion that fits inside the female is .875". from end of female ferrule: 5", 9-1/2", 16-1/2" to front of grip, =3-15/16" to end of grip, 3-1/8" from end of grip, to end of rod/reel =seat. Total length of the entire female ferrule is 2". I have taken 3 photos of this rod, which are attached. If your =software will allow you to blow them up, you will see the "Little Ike", =I used from Paul's catalog, of 1954. If you have any problems, just let me know., and I sure hope this =helps. GMA This comes out to be 6'-3", almost to the hair. Sent: Friday, December 17, 1999 8:24 PMSubject: Re: Lightweight Rod Thanks you've been a great fellow to talk with or at least write to. = Just one more question if you don't mind. what is your apporoximateguide spaceing on this rod? You've helped me out emensly as I am =justgetting into this myself.C.R. Adams ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BF4996.4B468CA0 I hope I'm sending this info out to the = the attachments, which I hope I've sent to all that asked. I never = would get so many requests, so didn't handle it very =well. Anyone who missed the photos, please letme = I'll get them off to you. GMAGeorge Aldrich ----- Original Message ----- nobler Sent: Saturday, December 18, = PMSubject: Fw: Lightweight =Rod From:nobler Sent: Saturday, December 18, 1999 11:37 AMSubject: Re: Lightweight Rod Midge. Starting at the tip: 5", 6-3/8" 6-13/16",= 7-7/8", 5-1/2", to end of male ferrule. Male portion that fits inside = female is .875". from end of female ferrule: 5", 9-1/2", = front of grip, 3-15/16" to end of grip, 3-1/8" from end of grip, to = 2". I have taken 3 photos of this rod, which = attached. If your software will allow you to blow them up, you will = "Little Ike", I used from Paul's catalog, of =1954. If you have any problems, just let me = sure hope this helps. GMA This comes out to be 6'-3", almost to hair. ----- Original Message ----- Chase = Sent: Friday, December 17, = PMSubject: Re: Lightweight =RodThanks you've been a great fellow to talk with or at = Adams ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BF4996.4B468CA0-- from darrell@rockclimbing.org Sat Dec 18 20:35:04 1999 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: GW Bishop Gathering Photos - Comments A few comments... The Bamboo Rod Timeline photo - L. is Chuck Irvine our gracious host, M. isMark Metcalf Editor of the Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine (no doubt thosestanding picout and posting on their dart board 8^) and Don Burns is on the R. Mark'sTimeline is quite unique and was a very interesting byte of information. The Chili - Chuck and Darrell Lee were the chefs and no one left hungry...heart burn or indigestion maybe... Our Host Chuck - Sorry for the terrible photo... that was probably the onlyinstance that Chuck wasn't smiling the whole weekend! The Group - Bottom R. is Paul Whitely, next to him is Mark Metcalf... hey,can someone name all the participants??? Big prize to the person that canname them all... The JW Beveller - If I recall it uses a straight cutter vs the MedevedBeveller uses a twin cutter, but I could easily be wrong... please correctme if I am... The Rod Tubes & Rods - There were many beautiful, vintage, historical andexcellent casting/fishing machines to be cast and I'm sure all enjoyed theopportunity to try out the many different rods. Casting - There were several expert casters among the group, but I am notone of them... Several other participants were not pictured such as Jerry Foster andseveral others as they had to be somewhere else or had a fish to catch or... Chuck... Thanks again! How about a Y2K Bishop Spring Fling? Here's the URL again... www.bamboorods.homepage.com Ta, Darrell Lee from seanmcs@ar.com.au Sat Dec 18 20:55:58 1999 Sun, 19 Dec 1999 13:52:45 +1100 Subject: Re: Info please Tim and Ian: Michael Rogan of Ballyshannon was born in 1833 andfollowed his father into the profession of fly tying. Francis Francisdescribed his salmon flies as akin "to a piece of jewellery", and hewas as well known in England as in Ireland. The writing on Roganindicates that all his flies were tied by hand and without a vice. Therod referred to I imagine was sold by his business during his lifetime,which ended in 1905. The business still exits in Ballyshannon under thename if Rogan of Donegal, and is operated by his grandson's wife Rita,or was certainly as recently as 1984. They also tie all the flieswithout any vice. I have had trout flies, mainly for lake fishing fromthis outfit, and they are quite realistic Daddy Longlegs and hugesedges/caddis flies for example. If the rod is one owned by MichaelRogan, then it would be quite an artifact. However it is more likely onemade or sold by Rogan. The stopper is presumably from another source, asBishop Auckland is in County Durham, in the North of England. Regards. Sean Ian Kearney wrote: Tim, Just another thought. The M Rogan name may to the name of the owner oftherod rather then associated with the maker. Ian Kearney The At 10:19 PM 16/12/99 -0000, Watson's wrote:Ihave recently been given a rod. Clearly it is very old, it is made fromdark wood and is in 3 pieces,the handle is made from leather stiched around brass reel fittings.Lookslike a salmon rod of some sort, judging from its handle. The butt stopperhasCummins Bishop Aukland on it and the brass reel fitting has M RoganBallyshannon stamped on it. the rod is @10-11 ft.Any houghtsThanksTim. Ihave recently been given a rod. Clearly itisveryold, it is made from dark wood and is in 3 pieces,the handle is madefromleather stiched around brass reel fittings. Looks like a salmon rod ofsomesort, judging from its handle. The butt stopper hasCummins BishopAuklandon itand the brass reel fitting has M Rogan Ballyshannon stamped on it. therod is@10-11 ft.Any houghtsThanks Tim. from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Dec 18 21:26:57 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sat, 18 Dec 1999 21:18:30 -0600 Subject: Magazine boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01BF499E.AD297920" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BF499E.AD297920 I just subscribed to the Bamboo Fly Rod, a couple of months ago, and the =only copy I have received is dated Sept/Dec. 1998 ! I wonder if I could =just take my paid subscription out in back issues ? GMA Sent: Saturday, December 18, 1999 8:34 PMSubject: GW Bishop Gathering Photos - Comments A few comments... The Bamboo Rod Timeline photo - L. is Chuck Irvine our gracious host, =M. isMark Metcalf Editor of the Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine (no doubt those =standing cutting picout and posting on their dart board 8^) and Don Burns is on the R. =Mark'sTimeline is quite unique and was a very interesting byte of =information. The Chili - Chuck and Darrell Lee were the chefs and no one left =hungry...heart burn or indigestion maybe... Our Host Chuck - Sorry for the terrible photo... that was probably the =onlyinstance that Chuck wasn't smiling the whole weekend! The Group - Bottom R. is Paul Whitely, next to him is Mark Metcalf... =hey,can someone name all the participants??? Big prize to the person that =canname them all... The JW Beveller - If I recall it uses a straight cutter vs the MedevedBeveller uses a twin cutter, but I could easily be wrong... please =correctme if I am... The Rod Tubes & Rods - There were many beautiful, vintage, historical =andexcellent casting/fishing machines to be cast and I'm sure all enjoyed =theopportunity to try out the many different rods. Casting - There were several expert casters among the group, but I am =notone of them... Several other participants were not pictured such as Jerry Foster andseveral others as they had to be somewhere else or had a fish to catch =or... Chuck... Thanks again! How about a Y2K Bishop Spring Fling? Here's the URL again... www.bamboorods.homepage.com Ta, Darrell Lee ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BF499E.AD297920 I just subscribed to the Bamboo Fly Rod, a= months ago, and the only copy I have received is dated Sept/Dec. 1998 ! = ? GMA ----- Original Message ----- Darrell A. Lee = Sent: Saturday, December 18, = PMSubject: GW Bishop Gathering = CommentsA few comments...The Bamboo Rod Timelinephoto = Chuck Irvine our gracious host, M. isMark Metcalf Editor of the = Rod Magazine (no doubt those standingby the mail box waiting for = subscriptions will considering cutting picout and posting on their = board 8^) and Don Burns is on the R. Mark'sTimeline is quite = was a very interesting byte of information.The Chili - Chuck = indigestion maybe...Our Host Chuck - Sorry for the terrible = that was probably the onlyinstance that Chuck wasn't smiling the = weekend!The Group - Bottom R. is Paul Whitely, next to him is = Metcalf... hey,can someone name all the participants??? Big prize = person that canname them all...The JW Beveller - If I = uses a straight cutter vs the MedevedBeveller uses a twin cutter, = could easily be wrong... please correctme if I am...The = & Rods - There were many beautiful, vintage, historical = theopportunity to try out the many different rods.Casting = them...Several other participants were not pictured such as = Foster andseveral others as they had to be somewhere else or had a = catch or...Chuck... Thanks again! How about a Y2K Bishop = Lee ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BF499E.AD297920-- from darrell@rockclimbing.org Sat Dec 18 21:34:00 1999 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Magazine boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BF498E.CC39FFC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BF498E.CC39FFC0 I was JUT KIDDING!!! but look at the bright side, they may be destined to befuture collectibles! Darrell-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, December 18, 1999 7:27 PM Subject: Magazine I just subscribed to the Bamboo Fly Rod, a couple of months ago, and theonly copy I have received is dated Sept/Dec. 1998 ! I wonder if I could justtake my paid subscription out in back issues ? GMA----- Original Message -----From: Darrell A. Lee Sent: Saturday, December 18, 1999 8:34 PMSubject: GW Bishop Gathering Photos - Comments A few comments... The Bamboo Rod Timeline photo - L. is Chuck Irvine our gracious host, M.isMark Metcalf Editor of the Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine (no doubt thosestanding picout and posting on their dart board 8^) and Don Burns is on the R.Mark'sTimeline is quite unique and was a very interesting byte of information. The Chili - Chuck and Darrell Lee were the chefs and no one lefthungry...heart burn or indigestion maybe... Our Host Chuck - Sorry for the terrible photo... that was probably theonlyinstance that Chuck wasn't smiling the whole weekend! The Group - Bottom R. is Paul Whitely, next to him is Mark Metcalf...hey,can someone name all the participants??? Big prize to the person thatcanname them all... The JW Beveller - If I recall it uses a straight cutter vs the MedevedBeveller uses a twin cutter, but I could easily be wrong... pleasecorrectme if I am... The Rod Tubes & Rods - There were many beautiful, vintage, historicalandexcellent casting/fishing machines to be cast and I'm sure all enjoyedtheopportunity to try out the many different rods. Casting - There were several expert casters among the group, but I amnotone of them... Several other participants were not pictured such as Jerry Foster andseveral others as they had to be somewhere else or had a fish to catchor... Chuck... Thanks again! How about a Y2K Bishop Spring Fling? Here's the URL again... www.bamboorods.homepage.com Ta, Darrell Lee ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BF498E.CC39FFC0 JUT KIDDING!!! but look at the bright side, they may be destined to be = collectibles! Darrell noblerSent: Saturday, December 18, 1999 7:27 = darrell@rockclimbing.org; = MagazineI just subscribed to the Bamboo Fly Rod, a= months ago, and the only copy I have received is dated Sept/Dec. 1998 = ? GMA ----- Original Message ----- Darrell A. Lee = Sent: Saturday, December 18, = PMSubject: GW Bishop Gathering = CommentsA few comments...The Bamboo Rod Timeline = is Chuck Irvine our gracious host, M. isMark Metcalf Editor of = Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine (no doubt those standingby the mail box = their dart board 8^) and Don Burns is on the R. Mark'sTimeline = unique and was a very interesting byte of information.The = Chuck and Darrell Lee were the chefs and no one left = or indigestion maybe...Our Host Chuck - Sorry for the = photo... that was probably the onlyinstance that Chuck wasn't = the whole weekend!The Group - Bottom R. is Paul Whitely, = is Mark Metcalf... hey,can someone name all the participants??? = prize to the person that canname them all...The JW = I recall it uses a straight cutter vs the MedevedBeveller uses a = am...The Rod Tubes & Rods - There were many beautiful, = historical andexcellent casting/fishing machines to be cast and = rods.Casting - There were several expert casters among the = but I am notone of them...Several other participants = pictured such as Jerry Foster andseveral others as they had to = somewhere else or had a fish to catch or...Chuck... Thanks = How about a Y2K Bishop Spring Fling?Here's the URL again... = Lee ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BF498E.CC39FFC0-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Dec 18 22:03:44 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sat, 18 Dec 1999 21:55:14 -0600 Subject: Re: Magazine boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0077_01BF49A3.CF34BCA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0077_01BF49A3.CF34BCA0 I was serious, as I enjoyed the one issue a bunch ! I hate to pay for =back issues, when I have nothing later than 1998 ! GMA Sent: Saturday, December 18, 1999 9:33 PMSubject: RE: Magazine I was JUT KIDDING!!! but look at the bright side, they may be destined =to be future collectibles! Darrell-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Sent: Saturday, December 18, 1999 7:27 PM Subject: Magazine I just subscribed to the Bamboo Fly Rod, a couple of months ago, and =the only copy I have received is dated Sept/Dec. 1998 ! I wonder if I =could just take my paid subscription out in back issues ? GMA Sent: Saturday, December 18, 1999 8:34 PMSubject: GW Bishop Gathering Photos - Comments A few comments... The Bamboo Rod Timeline photo - L. is Chuck Irvine our gracious =host, M. isMark Metcalf Editor of the Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine (no doubt those =standing cutting picout and posting on their dart board 8^) and Don Burns is on the R. =Mark'sTimeline is quite unique and was a very interesting byte of =information. The Chili - Chuck and Darrell Lee were the chefs and no one left =hungry...heart burn or indigestion maybe... Our Host Chuck - Sorry for the terrible photo... that was probably =the onlyinstance that Chuck wasn't smiling the whole weekend! The Group - Bottom R. is Paul Whitely, next to him is Mark =Metcalf... hey,can someone name all the participants??? Big prize to the person =that canname them all... The JW Beveller - If I recall it uses a straight cutter vs the =MedevedBeveller uses a twin cutter, but I could easily be wrong... please =correctme if I am... The Rod Tubes & Rods - There were many beautiful, vintage, =historical andexcellent casting/fishing machines to be cast and I'm sure all =enjoyed theopportunity to try out the many different rods. Casting - There were several expert casters among the group, but I =am notone of them... Several other participants were not pictured such as Jerry Foster =andseveral others as they had to be somewhere else or had a fish to =catch or... Chuck... Thanks again! How about a Y2K Bishop Spring Fling? Here's the URL again... www.bamboorods.homepage.com Ta, Darrell Lee ------=_NextPart_000_0077_01BF49A3.CF34BCA0 I was serious, as I enjoyed the one issue a= ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- Darrell A. Lee = Sent: Saturday, December 18, = PMSubject: RE: Magazine was JUT KIDDING!!! but look at the bright side, they may be destined = future collectibles! Darrell -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.w= rodmakers@w= Behalf Of noblerSent: Saturday, December 18, 1999 = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= MagazineI just subscribed to the Bamboo Fly Rod,= of months ago, and the only copy I have received is dated Sept/Dec. = ? GMA ----- Original Message ----- = Darrell A. Lee Sent: Saturday, December = 8:34 PMSubject: GW Bishop = CommentsA few comments...The Bamboo Rod Timeline = is Chuck Irvine our gracious host, M. isMark Metcalf Editor of = Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine (no doubt those standingby the mail = waiting for their subscriptions will considering cutting = Mark'sTimeline is quite unique and was a very interesting byte = information.The Chili - Chuck and Darrell Lee were the = no one left hungry...heart burn or indigestion = Host Chuck - Sorry for the terrible photo... that was probably the = onlyinstance that Chuck wasn't smiling the whole = hey,can someone name all the participants??? Big prize to the = that canname them all...The JW Beveller - If I recall = a straight cutter vs the MedevedBeveller uses a twin cutter, = could easily be wrong... please correctme if I = andexcellent casting/fishing machines to be cast and I'm sure = rods.Casting - There were several expert casters among the = but I am notone of them...Several other participants = pictured such as Jerry Foster andseveral others as they had to = somewhere else or had a fish to catch or...Chuck... Thanks = How about a Y2K Bishop Spring Fling?Here's the URL = =Lee ------=_NextPart_000_0077_01BF49A3.CF34BCA0-- from georgewb@pacbell.net Sat Dec 18 22:46:26 1999 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: Decals boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0020_01BF4998.9A9E8580" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BF4998.9A9E8580 Some inkjet printers now use "solid ink" -- it is actually melted and =hardens on the surface. I would think that would be more colorfast.The same would be true for the color printers commonly referred to as =dye sublimation -- they, too, are a thermal transfer. George-----Original Message-----From: Dennis Bertram Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Saturday, December 18, 1999 7:21 AMSubject: Decals I tried Terry Kirkpatrick's suggestion concerning model decals. Although it is touchy, it seems to work just fine for black and =white lables printed on my ink jet printer. The process I use is 3 very thin coats of spray poly varnish on the =decal material. Then I print the lable. Then 3 more spray coats. Then =soak in water and apply the decal to the rod that has already had the =first coat of varnish. You honestly can not see the outline of the =decal. I've tried the same process with color however it runs as soon as it =touches water. Any Ideas? Dennis Bertram ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BF4998.9A9E8580 Some inkjet printers now use = think that would be more colorfast.The samewould = the color printers commonly referred to as dye sublimation -- they, too, = thermal transfer. George -----Original = = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= DecalsI tried Terry Kirkpatrick's = concerning model decals. Although it is touchy, it seems= fine for black and white lables printed on my ink jet =printer. The process I use is 3 very thin= decal to the rod that has already had the first coat of = You honestly can not see the outline of the decal. I've tried the same processwith = Bertram ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BF4998.9A9E8580-- from georgewb@pacbell.net Sat Dec 18 22:48:46 1999 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: Info please Rodmakers Another thought on "M Rogan, Ballyshannon". In all of flyfishing, probablythe most famous name is "Rogan" as in "Rogan's of Donnegal" the familythathas been tying flies for several hundred years (and without the aid of anytools, other than scissors). It would really be neat if your rod had somehistorical association with that "Rogan". George -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Info please Tim, Just another thought. The M Rogan name may to the name of the owner oftherod rather then associated with the maker. Ian Kearney The At 10:19 PM 16/12/99 -0000, Watson's wrote:Ihave recently been given a rod. Clearly it is very old, it is made fromdark wood and is in 3 pieces,the handle is made from leather stiched around brass reel fittings. Lookslike a salmon rod of some sort, judging from its handle. The butt stopperhasCummins Bishop Aukland on it and the brass reel fitting has M RoganBallyshannon stamped on it. the rod is @10-11 ft.Any houghtsThanksTim. Ihave recently been given a rod. Clearly itisveryold, it is made from dark wood and is in 3 pieces,the handle is madefromleather stiched around brass reel fittings. Looks like a salmon rod ofsomesort, judging from its handle. The butt stopper hasCummins BishopAuklandon itand the brass reel fitting has M Rogan Ballyshannon stamped on it. therodis@10-11 ft.Any houghtsThanks Tim. from georgewb@pacbell.net Sat Dec 18 22:50:42 1999 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: Re: Garrison Reel Seat If it is weight that you want to save, you can always use a wooden insertwith a large bore and cork underneath. George -----Original Message----- Subject: Garrison Reel Seat Thanks for the suggestions on the lightweight taper especially Mr. GMA.I was thinking about using the Garrison Skeleton Reel Seat that Rec sellswith the cork insert. Has anyone ever used that particular seat? Andhow do the cork inserts hold up to years of sliding your reel in and out?Should I just go with a lightweight wood insert? ThanksSincerely,C.R. Adams from if6were9@bellsouth.net Sun Dec 19 03:30:53 1999 EAA10607; Subject: Re: Decals DA6CAEF862861CFA5026D09B" --------------DA6CAEF862861CFA5026D09B In addition to the decal paper (water transfer), Mirco-Mark also carriesa spray can of inkjet "Fixative" which they claim is a must for inkjetprinted decals. They say it is to prevent inkjet images from washingoff, smearing, etc.If I've been good this year, I hope to have some of their paper and acan of spray in my stocking next week. irish-george wrote: Some inkjet printers now use "solid ink" -- it is actually melted andhardens on the surface. I would think that would be morecolorfast.The same would be true for the color printers commonlyreferred to as dye sublimation -- they, too, are a thermaltransfer. George -----Original Message-----From: Dennis Bertram Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Saturday, December 18, 1999 7:21 AMSubject: DecalsI tried Terry Kirkpatrick's suggestionconcerning model decals. Although it is touchy, it seems towork just fine for black and white lables printed on my inkjet printer. The process I use is 3 very thin coats of spraypoly varnish on the decal material. Then I print thelable. Then 3 more spray coats. Then soak in water andapply the decal to the rod that has already had the firstcoat of varnish. You honestly can not see the outline ofthe decal. I've tried the same process with color however itruns as soon as it touches water. Any Ideas? DennisBertram --------------DA6CAEF862861CFA5026D09B In addition to the decal paper (water transfer), Mirco-Mark also carriesa spray can of inkjet "Fixative" which they claim is a must for inkjet washingoff, smearing, etc.If I've been good this year, I hope to have some of their paper anda can of spray in my stocking next week. irish-george wrote: printers now use "solid ink" -- it is actually melted and hardens on colorfast.Thesame would be true for the color printers commonly referred to as dyesublimation -----OriginalMessage-----From: Dennis Bertram<fquinchat@locl.net> <Sats@gte.net>Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu<rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu>Date: Saturday, December18,1999 7:21 AMSubject:DecalsItried Terry Kirkpatrick's suggestion concerning model it is touchy, it seems to work just fine for black and white lables printed process I use is 3 very thin coats of spray poly varnish on the decal in water and apply the decal to the rod that has already had the first triedthe same process with color however it runs as soon as it touches Bertram --------------DA6CAEF862861CFA5026D09B-- from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Sun Dec 19 08:59:15 1999 Subject: Merry Christmas Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. May the only Y2K bugs you encounterbewhat you fish with. Best Wishes, Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Dec 19 09:08:45 1999 Subject: Re: Male ferrule pulled off Steve,I also use 2-ton epoxy and have had 2 failures in over 20 years ofbuilding rods-one was from a poor fit and the other was probably from thecontracting and expanding of the cane under differing humidities (although I take myrods from highly humid Va. to dry Mt. every year with no problem). Your method seems to be o.k.-the failure may be due to oil or other contaminant, particularly if all the epoxy stayed on the cane.Regards,Hank. from dpeaston@wzrd.com Sun Dec 19 09:31:07 1999 Subject: Re: decals At 03:56 PM 12/18/1999 -0500, bob maulucci wrote:In the vintage guitar market, repro decal availability has cheated a lot of people out of their hard earned cash. Only restorers and ethical types should have them. Many have tried to pass of phonies as the real McCoy(or Fender). The decals are great to have when used right. A neat idea.Bob Maulucci==================================================downandacross.combob@downandacross.com A suggestion or those interested in duplicating decals for restorations. Ihave made labels for rod tubes and for rods based upon the logos of makers( from Sage to Granger). Some are really easy to reproduce (Like Divine orVLA which use fonts that match those available as true type and havesimplelayouts and colors). Others can be reproduced by scanning in originals andediting. In all cases I suggest that you add in small but discernable type"restored by Your Name, year" or the like to the label. It gives authorshipto your restoration and avoids the counterfeit concern." -Doug Easton from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Dec 19 12:54:25 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sun, 19 Dec 1999 12:45:54 -0600 Subject: Re: decals boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01BF4A20.3CE4CDE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BF4A20.3CE4CDE0 The problem is finding a good original to duplicate ! It's that, or be a =real guru with the computer software, recreating from a photo. GMA Sent: Sunday, December 19, 1999 9:28 AMSubject: Re: decals At 03:56 PM 12/18/1999 -0500, bob maulucci wrote:In the vintage guitar market, repro decal availability has cheated a = of people out of their hard earned cash. Only restorers and ethical = should have them. Many have tried to pass of phonies as the real = Fender). The decals are great to have when used right. A neat idea.Bob Maulucci==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3Ddownandacross.combob@downandacross.com A suggestion or those interested in duplicating decals for =restorations. Ihave made labels for rod tubes and for rods based upon the logos of =makers( from Sage to Granger). Some are really easy to reproduce (Like Divine =orVLA which use fonts that match those available as true type and have =simplelayouts and colors). Others can be reproduced by scanning in originals =andediting. In all cases I suggest that you add in small but discernable =type"restored by Your Name, year" or the like to the label. It gives =authorshipto your restoration and avoids the counterfeit concern." -Doug Easton ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BF4A20.3CE4CDE0 The problem is finding a good original to = It's that, or be a real guru with the computer software, recreating from = photo. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Douglas = Easton = Sent: Sunday, December 19, 1999= AMSubject: Re: decalsAt 03:56 PM 12/18/1999 -0500, bob maulucci = = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= suggestion or those interested in duplicating decals for restorations. = Ihave made labels for rod tubes and for rods based upon the logos = makers( from Sage to Granger). Some are really easy to reproduce = Divine orVLA which use fonts that match those available as true = have simplelayouts and colors). Others can be reproduced by = originals andediting. In all cases I suggest that you add in small = discernable type"restored by Your Name, year" or the like to the = concern."-Doug Easton ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BF4A20.3CE4CDE0-- from rsgould@cmc.net Sun Dec 19 13:19:59 1999 Subject: weight formula boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0025_01BF4A12.F5BAF3C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BF4A12.F5BAF3C0 Hello out there,Just thought you'd be fascinated to learn what happens when you apply =the "trout weight" formula recently posted, to your own body. In my case =I should weigh 162 lbs rather than the 205 actual. So what I've learned =is that most of the problem is in the "girth" and I'm not really so =close to being a really big trout as I thought I was. Or then again, =perhaps I've been eating too many shrimp lately. At any rate, I'm going =to spend more time with the trout next year and maybe some of their =svelteness will brush off on me.Happy Holidays to all!Ray ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BF4A12.F5BAF3C0 Hello out there,Just thought you'd be fascinated to = happens when you apply the "trout weight" formula recently posted, to = body. In my case I should weigh 162 lbs rather than the 205 actual. So = learned is that most of the problem is in the "girth" and I'm not really = close to being a really big trout as I thought I was. Or then again, = I've been eating too many shrimp lately. At any rate, I'm going to spend = time with the trout next year and maybe some of their svelteness will = on me.Happy Holidays to all!Ray ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BF4A12.F5BAF3C0-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Dec 19 13:41:25 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sun, 19 Dec 1999 13:41:39 -0600 Subject: Re: weight formula boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01BF4A26.CD2F3920" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BF4A26.CD2F3920 Sounds like a Master Plan ! Or perhaps it's the plan of a Master ! Merry Christmas to all, GMA Sent: Sunday, December 19, 1999 1:19 PMSubject: weight formula Hello out there,Just thought you'd be fascinated to learn what happens when you apply =the "trout weight" formula recently posted, to your own body. In my case =I should weigh 162 lbs rather than the 205 actual. So what I've learned =is that most of the problem is in the "girth" and I'm not really so =close to being a really big trout as I thought I was. Or then again, =perhaps I've been eating too many shrimp lately. At any rate, I'm going =to spend more time with the trout next year and maybe some of their =svelteness will brush off on me.Happy Holidays to all!Ray ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BF4A26.CD2F3920 Sounds like a Master Plan ! Or perhaps it's= of a Master ! Merry Christmas to =all, GMA ----- Original Message ----- Ray =Gould = Sent: Sunday, December 19, 1999= PMSubject: weight formula Hello out there,Just thought you'd be fascinated to = happens when you apply the "trout weight" formula recently posted, to = body. In my case I should weigh 162 lbs rather than the 205 actual. So = I've learned is that most of the problem is in the "girth" and I'm not = so close to being a really big trout as I thought I was. Or then = perhaps I've been eating too many shrimp lately. At any rate, I'm = spend more time with the trout next year and maybe some of their = will brush off on me.Happy Holidays to all!Ray ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BF4A26.CD2F3920-- from djk762@hotmail.com Sun Dec 19 13:44:34 1999 Sun, 19 Dec 1999 11:43:57 PST Subject: RE:Bishop Beveller Rodmakers, I have borrowed the J.W. beveller pictured in Darrell's photographs from Bishop 99. Jeremy Gray brought the beveller to Bishop and demonstratedits' capabilities for rough bevelling and fluting for hollow built rods.The machine is loud and will eat cane fast! One must be careful not to try to cut too much cane in one pass or the router driven straight bit will pick up more cane than desired and ruin a strip.Regarding an earlier question about what keeps the strips tight to the form - spring tensioned arms with roller ends keep the strips down in the60 degree groove. These are similar to the version of the Medved beveller illustrated in the Maurer/Elser book.This machine is built very well and works as advertised. David KashubaFair Oaks CA______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from djk762@hotmail.com Sun Dec 19 18:35:04 1999 Sun, 19 Dec 1999 16:34:25 PST Subject: RE:Bishop Beveller ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Sun Dec 19 19:30:58 1999 Subject: Planing forms Day 1: Planing forms Day 1: This week I finally got the steel to make my planing forms. After spendingafew months, okay six months, well I guess it's closer to 18 months bynow,of wrestling with the make/buy decision on a set of planing forms. Forbetter or worse I went with make. So a friend who has an account with abigsupply house ordered the steel, pins and lent me a reamer and I went towork. The only problem was that they didn't have 6' X 3/4" square in stockso I have 6' long 3/4" x 7/8" and the forms will be a little taller. I hopethat's my biggest problem. I spent most of Saturday afternoon with a big mill file truing up two facesof the steel. These are to be the inside surfaces of the forms. My filestarted clogging so it was off to the hardware store for a wire brush. Backto filing and after about 2-1/2 hours they mated very nicely. I cleaned up the filings and put some tape on the opposite face of one ofthe sides and marked off where all the holes would be. I started off bymarking for a push/pull pair every 5" and a dowel pin every 10". I alignedthe planing surfaces and clamped the stock to keep them there and thenclamped that to the table on the drill press. I made my first hole. And a fine hole it was. Round, about 1/4" in diameter and straight throughthe two pieces of stock. I put a dowel pin in it. The plan was to drill thethrough holes that would be used for the PULL first. Put a dowel pin ineachone then go back and drill an undersized hole and ream for the dowels.ThenI'd separate the pieces and drill the PUSH hole and drill out this side ofthe PULL hole to a clearance for the PULL bolt. So I'm drilling away and I passed over one of the dowel marks. Why am Ionlyputting these in every 10". I had seen a commercially available set andthat's how they were done. It'll only take me a few more holes and I have abox of 50 pins. so I mark out a few more holes and it's back to the drillpress. As I get near the end I'm thinking about the discussion on swelledbutts a few weeks ago and I remember that some one said their forms hadthePush/Pull pairs 2-1/2" apart at the butt section. Hey it's only a few moreholes so I mark out a few more pairs and back to the drill press. I keep thepins at every 5" and didn't add extra. So I've got all the PULL holes drilled and I switch to a 15/64 drill anddrill the pin holes and go back and ream them out. Everything lines upnicely so I separate the sides and drill the hole for the PUSH and open upthe PULL hole for a 5/16" bolt. I put every thing back together and thejoint is pretty even. I take one pass along the top and the files istoughing most of the surface on both sides. The sides are nicely aligned.Yahoo. The first 7 Push/Pull pairs are 2-1/2" apart and the next 11 are 5" apart. Igo to look for my taps and realize it's now 2:15am. I got a lot done andSunday is going to be a busy day and best of all I haven't screwed anythingup. I can tap these later. Paul from djk762@hotmail.com Sun Dec 19 19:58:24 1999 Sun, 19 Dec 1999 17:57:50 PST Subject: Re:Bishop Beveller Carsten,Sorry about the no- message message. Hotmail glitch.There is a photo of the beveller at www.jwflyrods.com/Photo.htmlThe form is 12", wood, and grooved 60 degrees. Just like any manualrough planning form.The router is mounted on its' side; the bit is parallel to the ground. The router bit is perpendicular to the form.The form is notched for the router bit, so that when the form is raised or lowered the bit cuts at the appropriate depth above or below the top of the form.The springs attached to the roller ended arms that hold the strip in the groove are formidable. they hold the strip tight to the form.The entire cutting area is enclosed in a plexy glass cage with a vacum attachment. Very handy as there is much fine dust produced.David Kashuba.______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Dec 20 06:42:12 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Mon, 20 Dec 1999 06:33:44 -0600 Subject: Re: Re:Bishop Beveller boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001E_01BF4AB5.6AA99D60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BF4AB5.6AA99D60 What a beautiful shop ! How does anyone get anything done is a place =that's so neat ? (grin) GMA Sent: Sunday, December 19, 1999 7:57 PMSubject: Re:Bishop Beveller Carsten,Sorry about the no- message message. Hotmail glitch.There is a photo of the beveller at www.jwflyrods.com/Photo.htmlThe form is 12", wood, and grooved 60 degrees. Just like any manual = planning form.The router is mounted on its' side; the bit is parallel to the = The router bit is perpendicular to the form.The form is notched for the router bit, so that when the form is = or lowered the bit cuts at the appropriate depth above or below the = the form.The springs attached to the roller ended arms that hold the strip = groove are formidable. they hold the strip tight to the form.The entire cutting area is enclosed in a plexy glass cage with a = attachment. Very handy as there is much fine dust produced.David Kashuba.______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BF4AB5.6AA99D60 What a beautiful shop ! How does anyoneget = done is a place that's so neat ? (grin) GMA ----- Original Message ----- David = = Sent: Sunday, December 19, 1999= PMSubject: Re:Bishop =Beveller The form is 12", wood, and grooved 60 degrees. Just like any manual = form is raised or lowered the bit cuts at the appropriate depth = = roller ended arms that hold the strip in the groove are = enclosed in a plexy glass cage with a vacum attachment. Very handy= = =Kashuba.______________________________________________________Get= Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BF4AB5.6AA99D60-- from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Dec 20 07:25:20 1999 Subject: Re: Planing forms Day 1: Paul - It sounds like you are doing well. Two potential pitfalls await. First, be sure you are using a quality tap. A lot of people have tried this with hardware store taps, and found that they are not up to the job.Getting a broken tap out of the bar can be a lot of trouble. Second, when cutting the groove in the tip end of the form, it only takes a few passes to get to depth. It's all too easy to overdo it, and wind up spending a lot of time filing the surface to get back in tolerance.If you have indeed gotten all the holes drilled and everything lines up, you have done the hard part, most of the rest fairly easy if you take your time. from djk762@hotmail.com Mon Dec 20 08:20:23 1999 Mon, 20 Dec 1999 06:19:47 PST Subject: Re:Bishop Beveller Tim, I don't know who is the originator of the design. This beveller was purchased from J.W. Rods.They (he) has a site at www.jwflyrods.com David KashubaFair Oaks CA______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from darrell@rockclimbing.org Mon Dec 20 08:41:44 1999 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Bishop Beveller RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF4AB5.2D58E600" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF4AB5.2D58E600 Everyone was quite envious... not only was it neat and organized but HUGE!!!Oh, also about 15 minutes to some of the best fishing in California... butperhaps nothing special to the boys from down under... Darrell-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, December 20, 1999 4:43 AM Subject: Re:Bishop Beveller What a beautiful shop ! How does anyone get anything done is a placethat's so neat ? (grin) GMA----- Original Message -----From: David Kashuba Sent: Sunday, December 19, 1999 7:57 PMSubject: Re:Bishop Beveller Carsten,Sorry about the no- message message. Hotmail glitch.There is a photo of the beveller at www.jwflyrods.com/Photo.htmlThe form is 12", wood, and grooved 60 degrees. Just like any manualroughplanning form.The router is mounted on its' side; the bit is parallel to theground.The router bit is perpendicular to the form.The form is notched for the router bit, so that when the form israisedor lowered the bit cuts at the appropriate depth above or below the topofthe form.The springs attached to the roller ended arms that hold the strip inthegroove are formidable. they hold the strip tight to the form.The entire cutting area is enclosed in a plexy glass cage with avacumattachment. Very handy as there is much fine dust produced.David Kashuba.______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF4AB5.2D58E600 Everyone was quite envious... not only wasit = organized but HUGE!!! Oh, also about 15 minutes to some of the best = under... Darrell noblerSent: Monday, December 20, 1999 4:43 = djk762@hotmail.com; RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject:= BevellerWhat a beautiful shop ! How does anyone = done is a place that's so neat ? (grin) GMA ----- Original Message ----- Kashuba = Sent: Sunday, December 19, = PMSubject: Re:Bishop =Beveller = www.jwflyrods.com/Photo.html= The form is 12", wood, and grooved 60 degrees. Just like any manual = bit is parallel to the ground. The router bit is perpendicular = the form is raised or lowered the bit cuts at the appropriate = = =Kashuba.______________________________________________________Get= Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF4AB5.2D58E600-- from stpete@netten.net Mon Dec 20 09:00:59 1999 Subject: Cork Source Well, I need cork again. I was a complete idiot and failed to order intime for a discount after a rodmakers gathering. I also think I mayhave missed a group buy offered here on the list. Could a few of you good souls who have a reliable and quality source ofcork tip your hand and let me in on who you think has the best cork andthe best prices. If the minimums are huge, that's ok. Also, if the maker who was organizing a group buy is still in theprocess of getting one together, I'd be more than happy to hear fromhim. Rick from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Dec 20 09:15:30 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Mon, 20 Dec 1999 09:15:46 -0600 Subject: Re: Cork Source boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01BF4ACA.D37D0BA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BF4ACA.D37D0BA0 I would be most interested in getting some cork rings too ! Simon Wang, I have tried to send the PHY Midge info to you twice, and =your address bounces ! GMA Sent: Monday, December 20, 1999 9:00 AMSubject: Cork Source Well, I need cork again. I was a complete idiot and failed to order =intime for a discount after a rodmakers gathering. I also think I mayhave missed a group buy offered here on the list. Could a few of you good souls who have a reliable and quality source =ofcork tip your hand and let me in on who you think has the best cork =andthe best prices. If the minimums are huge, that's ok. Also, if the maker who was organizing a group buy is still in theprocess of getting one together, I'd be more than happy to hear fromhim. Rick ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BF4ACA.D37D0BA0 I would be most interested in getting some= too ! Simon Wang, I have tried to send the PHY = you twice, and your address bounces ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- Rick =C. Sent: Monday, December 20, 1999= AMSubject: Cork Source failed to order intime for a discount after a rodmakers = list.Could a few of you good souls who have a reliable and = source ofcork tip your hand and let me in on who you think has the = ok.Also, if the maker who was organizing a group buy is still = theprocess of getting one together, I'd be more than happy to hear = fromhim.Rick ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BF4ACA.D37D0BA0-- from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Mon Dec 20 09:51:30 1999 Subject: RE: Bishop Beveller This beveller looks like it was made from the design included in GeorgeMaurer's Fundamentals of Building a Bamboo Fly-Rod, pp90-96. He shows asmall photo of a unit made by Alan Medved and then provides fairlydetailedplans for what seems to be a very similar one. Although JW Rods charges$850plus shipping, it looks to me like anyone with the skills to make a rodcould make a beveller for the cost of a basic router plus maybe $40. I'mgoing to try it! I'm also going to try one other trick. Rather than a fixed bed with a groovein it, I'm going to make some 48" long rough forms. One set will have agroove with the 90 degree angle used for the initial pass (like atraditional rough planing form), and the other will be a 60 degree groove.And I'm thinking of tapering them to further reduce time needed for handplaning. I can cut these grooves accurately enough with a hand plane and a30 degree jig. Of course great accuracy isn't required since the strips willstill be considerably larger than final dimensions. Also seems to me thatthe rollers on which the form would rest as it passes under the router bitcould be raised or lowered a bit to make rough strips appropriate for bigorsmall rods. This has some ideas in common with the milling rig by BobMilward shown in Best of the Planing Form. Anyone ever tried anything like this - I mean rough bevelled strips with apreliminary taper? Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, December 20, 1999 8:20 AM Subject: Re:Bishop Beveller Tim, I don't know who is the originator of the design. Thisbeveller was purchased from J.W. Rods.They (he) has a site at www.jwflyrods.com DavidKashubaFair OaksCA ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Dec 20 10:23:43 1999 0000 1999 08:23:37 PST Subject: RE: Bishop Beveller barry, my only question about rough beveled stripswould be oven time, and thenm only if you cook yourbamboo after rough planing. would the smaller end ofyou beveled strips get more cooked since there wouldbe alot less mass than the larger end. i've wonderedabout this for a while but have not pursued it. personally i'm not sure that it would make muchdiference but would be intrested in hearing anothertake on this. timothy --- "Kling, Barry W." wrote: This beveller looks like it was made from the designincluded in GeorgeMaurer's Fundamentals of Building a Bamboo Fly-Rod,pp90-96. He shows asmall photo of a unit made by Alan Medved and thenprovides fairly detailedplans for what seems to be a very similar one.Although JW Rods charges $850plus shipping, it looks to me like anyone with theskills to make a rodcould make a beveller for the cost of a basic routerplus maybe $40. I'mgoing to try it! I'm also going to try one other trick. Rather than afixed bed with a groovein it, I'm going to make some 48" long rough forms.One set will have agroove with the 90 degree angle used for the initialpass (like atraditional rough planing form), and the other willbe a 60 degree groove.And I'm thinking of tapering them to further reducetime needed for handplaning. I can cut these grooves accurately enoughwith a hand plane and a30 degree jig. Of course great accuracy isn'trequired since the strips willstill be considerably larger than final dimensions.Also seems to me thatthe rollers on which the form would rest as itpasses under the router bitcould be raised or lowered a bit to make roughstrips appropriate for big orsmall rods. This has some ideas in common with themilling rig by BobMilward shown in Best of the Planing Form. Anyone ever tried anything like this - I mean roughbevelled strips with apreliminary taper? Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, December 20, 1999 8:20 AM Subject: Re:Bishop Beveller Tim, I don't know who is the originator of thedesign. Thisbeveller was purchased from J.W. Rods.They (he) has a site at www.jwflyrods.com DavidKashuba Fair OaksCA ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email athttp://www.hotmail.com ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com from michael@wugate.wustl.edu Mon Dec 20 10:29:30 1999 Subject: Re: Planing forms Day 1: Paul - It sounds like you are doing well. Two potential pitfalls await. First, be sure you are using a quality tap. A lot of people have tried this with hardware store taps, and found that they are not up to the job.Getting a broken tap out of the bar can be a lot of trouble. ... Good points Tom. Another tip *borrowed* for a commercial set offorms...you don't need to tap the entire 3/4" of the form. After drillingto your tap size, but before tapping, drill out all but the last 1/4" or soto your 9/32" or 5/16" clearance size. Sure is a lot easier to tap 1/4"than it is to tap 3/4"!!! Mike - all tapped out - BiondoSt. Louis, MO from caneman@clnk.com Mon Dec 20 10:32:19 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Mon, 20 Dec 1999 10:30:20 -0600 "rod 'akers" Subject: Re: Bishop Beveller Tim,I have always "pre tapered" my strips before heat treating. I put ataper to them, much oversized, but tapered nonetheless. Never haveexperienced any problem, and considering the short time they are heattreated, and the fact that the area you are most worried about the heataffecting is in the upper surface of the cane, then I don't know that itmakes any difference. just my thoughts. Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Bishop Beveller barry, my only question about rough beveled stripswould be oven time, and thenm only if you cook yourbamboo after rough planing. would the smaller end ofyou beveled strips get more cooked since there wouldbe alot less mass than the larger end. i've wonderedabout this for a while but have not pursued it.personally i'm not sure that it would make muchdiference but would be intrested in hearing anothertake on this. timothy --- "Kling, Barry W." wrote: This beveller looks like it was made from the designincluded in GeorgeMaurer's Fundamentals of Building a Bamboo Fly-Rod,pp90-96. He shows asmall photo of a unit made by Alan Medved and thenprovides fairly detailedplans for what seems to be a very similar one.Although JW Rods charges $850plus shipping, it looks to me like anyone with theskills to make a rodcould make a beveller for the cost of a basic routerplus maybe $40. I'mgoing to try it! I'm also going to try one other trick. Rather than afixed bed with a groovein it, I'm going to make some 48" long rough forms.One set will have agroove with the 90 degree angle used for the initialpass (like atraditional rough planing form), and the other willbe a 60 degree groove.And I'm thinking of tapering them to further reducetime needed for handplaning. I can cut these grooves accurately enoughwith a hand plane and a30 degree jig. Of course great accuracy isn'trequired since the strips willstill be considerably larger than final dimensions.Also seems to me thatthe rollers on which the form would rest as itpasses under the router bitcould be raised or lowered a bit to make roughstrips appropriate for big orsmall rods. This has some ideas in common with themilling rig by BobMilward shown in Best of the Planing Form. Anyone ever tried anything like this - I mean roughbevelled strips with apreliminary taper? Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, December 20, 1999 8:20 AM Subject: Re:Bishop Beveller Tim, I don't know who is the originator of thedesign. Thisbeveller waspurchased from J.W. Rods.They (he) has a site at www.jwflyrods.com DavidKashuba Fair OaksCA ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email athttp://www.hotmail.com ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Dec 20 10:42:14 1999 0000 1999 08:42:02 PST Subject: Re: Bishop Beveller bob, i've never been real consistant from rod to rodwith the size if my rough planed bundlesand have nevernoticed a variance from rod to rod, but in my mind itseems there ought to be. timothy --- Bob Nunley wrote:Tim,I have always "pre tapered" my strips beforeheat treating. I put ataper to them, much oversized, but taperednonetheless. Never haveexperienced any problem, and considering the shorttime they are heattreated, and the fact that the area you are mostworried about the heataffecting is in the upper surface of the cane, thenI don't know that itmakes any difference. just my thoughts. Bob-----Original Message-----From: timothy troester ; rod 'akers Date: Monday, December 20, 1999 10:27 AMSubject: RE: Bishop Beveller barry, my only question about rough beveled stripswould be oven time, and thenm only if you cook yourbamboo after rough planing. would the smaller endofyou beveled strips get more cooked since therewouldbe alot less mass than the larger end. i'vewonderedabout this for a while but have not pursued it.personally i'm not sure that it would make muchdiference but would be intrested in hearing anothertake on this. timothy --- "Kling, Barry W." wrote: This beveller looks like it was made from thedesignincluded in GeorgeMaurer's Fundamentals of Building a BambooFly-Rod,pp90-96. He shows asmall photo of a unit made by Alan Medved andthenprovides fairly detailedplans for what seems to be a very similar one.Although JW Rods charges $850plus shipping, it looks to me like anyone withtheskills to make a rodcould make a beveller for the cost of a basicrouterplus maybe $40. I'mgoing to try it! I'm also going to try one other trick. Ratherthan afixed bed with a groovein it, I'm going to make some 48" long roughforms.One set will have agroove with the 90 degree angle used for theinitialpass (like atraditional rough planing form), and the otherwillbe a 60 degree groove.And I'm thinking of tapering them to furtherreducetime needed for handplaning. I can cut these grooves accuratelyenoughwith a hand plane and a30 degree jig. Of course great accuracy isn'trequired since the strips willstill be considerably larger than finaldimensions.Also seems to me thatthe rollers on which the form would rest as itpasses under the router bitcould be raised or lowered a bit to make roughstrips appropriate for big orsmall rods. This has some ideas in common withthemilling rig by BobMilward shown in Best of the Planing Form. Anyone ever tried anything like this - I meanroughbevelled strips with apreliminary taper? Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, December 20, 1999 8:20 AM Subject: Re:Bishop Beveller Tim, I don't know who is the originator of thedesign. Thisbeveller waspurchased from J.W. Rods.They (he) has a site at www.jwflyrods.com DavidKashuba Fair OaksCA ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email athttp://www.hotmail.com ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All inone place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Mon Dec 20 11:05:07 1999 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id GAA26719; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 06:04:47 +1300 Subject: RE: Bishop Beveller Barry, I am sure that it has been done , but I do know that the heat treatingbecomes quite lot trickier if you are trying to heat treat tapered strips ina moving air oven. Ian Kearney Anyone ever tried anything like this - I mean rough bevelled strips with apreliminary taper? Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Re:Bishop Beveller Tim, I don't know who is the originator of the design. Thisbeveller was purchased from J.W. Rods.They (he) has a site at www.jwflyrods.com DavidKashubaFair OaksCA ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Mon Dec 20 11:05:09 1999 sage.ts.co.nz with SMTP id GAA26722; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 06:04:51 +1300 RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Planing forms Day 1: I was making my metal forms at the time the list was providing all thehorror stories about broken taps, about 9 months ago. As a person who hadnot used a metal tap before I therefor decided to try to lessen thatliklihood by drilling straight through both bars for the "pull " bolt andtightening (pulling together) them by use of a nut on the outside . Thisworks really well and saves quite a lot of tappping of the bars as well asextra drilling. I had thought I might use a bit of locktite to fix the nuton the outside of the forms and the just use the bolt for tightening but itworks really well using the nut to pull the bars together. regards Ian Kearney At 10:29 AM 20/12/99 -0600, Mike Biondo wrote:Paul - It sounds like you are doing well. Two potential pitfalls await. First, be sure you are using a quality tap. A lot of people have tried this with hardware store taps, and found that they are not up to the job.Getting a broken tap out of the bar can be a lot of trouble. ... Good points Tom. Another tip *borrowed* for a commercial set offorms...you don't need to tap the entire 3/4" of the form. After drillingto your tap size, but before tapping, drill out all but the last 1/4" or soto your 9/32" or 5/16" clearance size. Sure is a lot easier to tap 1/4"than it is to tap 3/4"!!! Mike - all tapped out - BiondoSt. Louis, MO from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Dec 20 11:15:30 1999 Mon, 20 Dec 1999 09:15:15 -0800 Subject: Re: Bishop Beveller All,At the Southern Rodmakers Gathering, Al Medved showed off two neatmachines. First was his rough out beveler, copied by so many. Second wasataper mill, equally as intriguing. It is basically a laminate trimmer whichrides along your planing form, cutting the strip to about .020 oversize in asingle pass. Don't ask me any more details, because I'm afraid I was tiedupwith other things at the time and didn't study it as closely as I would haveliked. Didn't someone have a picture up somewhere? Maybe on the SRGwebsite. Harry Ian Kearney wrote: Barry, I am sure that it has been done , but I do know that the heat treatingbecomes quite lot trickier if you are trying to heat treat tapered stripsina moving air oven. Ian Kearney Anyone ever tried anything like this - I mean rough bevelled strips withapreliminary taper? Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, December 20, 1999 8:20 AM Subject: Re:Bishop Beveller Tim, I don't know who is the originator of the design. Thisbeveller waspurchased from J.W. Rods.They (he) has a site at www.jwflyrods.com DavidKashubaFair OaksCA ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Dec 20 11:26:03 1999 0000 1999 09:22:09 PST Subject: RE: Bishop Beveller "rod 'akers" barry, do you use the kitchen oven? i don't buildnodeless but have considered trying nodeless for theexperience. nodeless seems to be a good approach if aguy has some space issues, like living in anapartment. i know nodeless believers do it fordifferent reasons but think that this would be anapproach to rodbuilding well suited to space restaint.do you see this as being true? timothy --- "Kling, Barry W." wrote: Timothy - I do nodeless construction, so as you suggested mycooking is done beforeroughing.... Barry -----Original Message-----From: timothy troester Sent: Monday, December 20, 1999 10:24 AM Subject: RE: Bishop Beveller barry, my only question about rough beveledstripswould be oven time, and thenm only if you cookyourbamboo after rough planing. would the smaller endofyou beveled strips get more cooked since therewouldbe alot less mass than the larger end. i'vewonderedabout this for a while but have not pursued it. personally i'm not sure that it would make muchdiference but would be intrested in hearinganothertake on this. timothy --- "Kling, Barry W." wrote: This beveller looks like it was made from thedesignincluded in GeorgeMaurer's Fundamentals of Building a BambooFly-Rod,pp90-96. He shows asmall photo of a unit made by Alan Medved andthenprovides fairly detailedplans for what seems to be a very similar one.Although JW Rods charges $850plus shipping, it looks to me like anyone withtheskills to make a rodcould make a beveller for the cost of a basicrouterplus maybe $40. I'mgoing to try it! I'm also going to try one other trick. Ratherthan afixed bed with a groovein it, I'm going to make some 48" long roughforms.One set will have agroove with the 90 degree angle used for theinitialpass (like atraditional rough planing form), and the otherwillbe a 60 degree groove.And I'm thinking of tapering them to furtherreducetime needed for handplaning. I can cut these grooves accuratelyenoughwith a hand plane and a30 degree jig. Of course great accuracy isn'trequired since the strips willstill be considerably larger than finaldimensions.Also seems to me thatthe rollers on which the form would rest as itpasses under the router bitcould be raised or lowered a bit to make roughstrips appropriate for big orsmall rods. This has some ideas in common withthemilling rig by BobMilward shown in Best of the Planing Form. Anyone ever tried anything like this - I meanroughbevelled strips with apreliminary taper? Barry -----Original Message-----From: David Kashuba Sent: Monday, December 20, 1999 8:20 AM Subject: Re:Bishop Beveller Tim, I don't know who is the originator of thedesign. Thisbeveller was purchased from J.W. Rods.They (he) has a site at www.jwflyrods.com DavidKashuba Fair OaksCA ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email athttp://www.hotmail.com ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. Allin oneplace.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com from mark_lang@tnb.com Mon Dec 20 13:26:40 1999 0600 with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 20 Dec 1999 13:26:51 -0600 Subject: Re: Bishop Beveller Bob,How much oversize do you make these pre tapered strips and what heattreat temps andtimes do you use? Mark "Bob Nunley" 12/20/99 10:30AM >>>Tim,I have always "pre tapered" my strips before heat treating. I put ataper to them, much oversized, but tapered nonetheless. Never haveexperienced any problem, and considering the short time they are heattreated, and the fact that the area you are most worried about the heataffecting is in the upper surface of the cane, then I don't know that itmakes any difference. just my thoughts. Bob-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Bishop Beveller barry, my only question about rough beveled stripswould be oven time, and thenm only if you cook yourbamboo after rough planing. would the smaller end ofyou beveled strips get more cooked since there wouldbe alot less mass than the larger end. i've wonderedabout this for a while but have not pursued it.personally i'm not sure that it would make muchdiference but would be intrested in hearing anothertake on this. timothy --- "Kling, Barry W." wrote: This beveller looks like it was made from the designincluded in GeorgeMaurer's Fundamentals of Building a Bamboo Fly-Rod,pp90-96. He shows asmall photo of a unit made by Alan Medved and thenprovides fairly detailedplans for what seems to be a very similar one.Although JW Rods charges $850plus shipping, it looks to me like anyone with theskills to make a rodcould make a beveller for the cost of a basic routerplus maybe $40. I'mgoing to try it! I'm also going to try one other trick. Rather than afixed bed with a groovein it, I'm going to make some 48" long rough forms.One set will have agroove with the 90 degree angle used for the initialpass (like atraditional rough planing form), and the other willbe a 60 degree groove.And I'm thinking of tapering them to further reducetime needed for handplaning. I can cut these grooves accurately enoughwith a hand plane and a30 degree jig. Of course great accuracy isn'trequired since the strips willstill be considerably larger than final dimensions.Also seems to me thatthe rollers on which the form would rest as itpasses under the router bitcould be raised or lowered a bit to make roughstrips appropriate for big orsmall rods. This has some ideas in common with themilling rig by BobMilward shown in Best of the Planing Form. Anyone ever tried anything like this - I mean roughbevelled strips with apreliminary taper? Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, December 20, 1999 8:20 AM Subject: Re:Bishop Beveller Tim, I don't know who is the originator of thedesign. Thisbeveller waspurchased from J.W. Rods.They (he) has a site at www.jwflyrods.com DavidKashuba Fair OaksCA ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email athttp://www.hotmail.com ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com from dellc@nextdim.com Mon Dec 20 16:09:47 1999 (SMTPD32-4.06) id A520816022E; Mon, 20 Dec 1999 13:52:32 PST Subject: Re: Planing forms Day 1: An old time machinist trick to try when draw filing and the file fills up isto rub chalk into the file, helps keep the filings from sticking in thegrooves.DellDell & Marie CoppockThe Flyfisher& the Quilterhttp://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail dellc@nextdim.comflyfisher@nextdim.com----- Original Message ----- Subject: Planing forms Day 1: Planing forms Day 1: This week I finally got the steel to make my planing forms. Afterspendingafew months, okay six months, well I guess it's closer to 18 months bynow,of wrestling with the make/buy decision on a set of planing forms. Forbetter or worse I went with make. So a friend who has an account with abigsupply house ordered the steel, pins and lent me a reamer and I went towork. The only problem was that they didn't have 6' X 3/4" square instockso I have 6' long 3/4" x 7/8" and the forms will be a little taller. Ihopethat's my biggest problem. I spent most of Saturday afternoon with a big mill file truing up twofacesof the steel. These are to be the inside surfaces of the forms. My filestarted clogging so it was off to the hardware store for a wire brush.Backto filing and after about 2-1/2 hours they mated very nicely. I cleaned up the filings and put some tape on the opposite face of one ofthe sides and marked off where all the holes would be. I started off bymarking for a push/pull pair every 5" and a dowel pin every 10". I alignedthe planing surfaces and clamped the stock to keep them there and thenclamped that to the table on the drill press. I made my first hole. And a fine hole it was. Round, about 1/4" in diameter and straightthroughthe two pieces of stock. I put a dowel pin in it. The plan was to drillthethrough holes that would be used for the PULL first. Put a dowel pin ineachone then go back and drill an undersized hole and ream for the dowels.ThenI'd separate the pieces and drill the PUSH hole and drill out this side ofthe PULL hole to a clearance for the PULL bolt. So I'm drilling away and I passed over one of the dowel marks. Why am Ionlyputting these in every 10". I had seen a commercially available set andthat's how they were done. It'll only take me a few more holes and I haveabox of 50 pins. so I mark out a few more holes and it's back to the drillpress. As I get near the end I'm thinking about the discussion on swelledbutts a few weeks ago and I remember that some one said their formshadthePush/Pull pairs 2-1/2" apart at the butt section. Hey it's only a fewmoreholes so I mark out a few more pairs and back to the drill press. I keepthepins at every 5" and didn't add extra. So I've got all the PULL holes drilled and I switch to a 15/64 drill anddrill the pin holes and go back and ream them out. Everything lines upnicely so I separate the sides and drill the hole for the PUSH and open upthe PULL hole for a 5/16" bolt. I put every thing back together and thejoint is pretty even. I take one pass along the top and the files istoughing most of the surface on both sides. The sides are nicely aligned.Yahoo. The first 7 Push/Pull pairs are 2-1/2" apart and the next 11 are 5" apart.Igo to look for my taps and realize it's now 2:15am. I got a lot done andSunday is going to be a busy day and best of all I haven't screwedanythingup. I can tap these later. Paul from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Dec 20 17:48:55 1999 Tue, 21 Dec 1999 07:48:25 +0800 Subject: RE: Bishop Beveller RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu types="text/plain,text/html";boundary="=====================_334364==_.ALT" --=====================_334364==_.ALT Oh now don't be like that. It's all good if it's fishing. Tony At 06:40 AM 12/20/99 -0800, Darrell A. Lee wrote: Everyone was quite envious... not only was it neat and organized butHUGE!!!Oh, also about 15 minutes to some of the best fishing in California... butperhaps nothing special to the boys from down under... Darrell -----Original Message----- From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, December 20, 1999 4:43 AM Subject: Re:Bishop Beveller What a beautiful shop ! How does anyone get anything done is a placethat'sso neat ? (grin) GMA ----- Original Message ----- From: David Kashuba RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Sunday, December 19, 1999 7:57 PM Subject: Re:Bishop Beveller Carsten, Sorry about the no- message message. Hotmail glitch. There is a photo of the beveller at www.jwflyrods.com/Photo.html The form is 12", wood, and grooved 60 degrees. Just like any manualroughplanning form. The router is mounted on its' side; the bit is parallel to the ground. The router bit is perpendicular to the form. The form is notched for the router bit, so that when the form israised or lowered the bit cuts at the appropriate depth above or below the topof the form. The springs attached to the roller ended arms that hold the strip inthe groove are formidable. they hold the strip tight to the form. The entire cutting area is enclosed in a plexy glass cage with a vacum attachment. Very handy as there is much fine dust produced. David Kashuba. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email athttp://www.hotmail.com /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_334364==_.ALT Oh now don't be like that. It's all good if it's fishing. Tony At 06:40 AM 12/20/99 -0800, Darrell A. Lee wrote: Everyonewas quite envious... not only was it neat and organized but HUGE!!! Oh, but perhaps nothing special to the boys from down under... Darrell -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu[ Behalf Of noblerSent: Monday, December 20, 1999 4:43AM RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re:Bishop Beveller What a beautiful shop ! How does anyone get anything done is a placethat's so neat ? (grin) GMA----- Original Message ----- From:DavidKashuba Sent: Sunday, December 19, 1999 7:57 PMSubject: Re:Bishop Beveller Carsten, Just like any manualrough planning form. the ground. The router bit is perpendicular to the form. form is raised or lowered the bit cuts at the appropriate depth above or below thetop of the form. the strip in thegroove are formidable. they hold the strip tight to the form. with a vacum attachment. Very handy as there is much fine dust produced. David Kashuba.______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com /*************************************************************************/AV Young And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_334364==_.ALT-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Dec 20 17:57:34 1999 Tue, 21 Dec 1999 07:53:36 +0800 Subject: RE: Bishop Beveller "rod 'akers" Going nodeless had lots of advantages particually if you're tight for spaceor simply don't want to make an oven. Do use the glues recomended though. Tony At 09:22 AM 12/20/99 -0800, timothy troester wrote:barry, do you use the kitchen oven? i don't buildnodeless but have considered trying nodeless for theexperience. nodeless seems to be a good approach if aguy has some space issues, like living in anapartment. i know nodeless believers do it fordifferent reasons but think that this would be anapproach to rodbuilding well suited to space restaint.do you see this as being true? timothy --- "Kling, Barry W." wrote: Timothy - I do nodeless construction, so as you suggested mycooking is done beforeroughing.... Barry -----Original Message-----From: timothy troester Sent: Monday, December 20, 1999 10:24 AM Subject: RE: Bishop Beveller barry, my only question about rough beveledstripswould be oven time, and thenm only if you cookyourbamboo after rough planing. would the smaller endofyou beveled strips get more cooked since therewouldbe alot less mass than the larger end. i'vewonderedabout this for a while but have not pursued it. personally i'm not sure that it would make muchdiference but would be intrested in hearinganothertake on this. timothy --- "Kling, Barry W." wrote: This beveller looks like it was made from thedesignincluded in GeorgeMaurer's Fundamentals of Building a BambooFly-Rod,pp90-96. He shows asmall photo of a unit made by Alan Medved andthenprovides fairly detailedplans for what seems to be a very similar one.Although JW Rods charges $850plus shipping, it looks to me like anyone withtheskills to make a rodcould make a beveller for the cost of a basicrouterplus maybe $40. I'mgoing to try it! I'm also going to try one other trick. Ratherthan afixed bed with a groovein it, I'm going to make some 48" long roughforms.One set will have agroove with the 90 degree angle used for theinitialpass (like atraditional rough planing form), and the otherwillbe a 60 degree groove.And I'm thinking of tapering them to furtherreducetime needed for handplaning. I can cut these grooves accuratelyenoughwith a hand plane and a30 degree jig. Of course great accuracy isn'trequired since the strips willstill be considerably larger than finaldimensions.Also seems to me thatthe rollers on which the form would rest as itpasses under the router bitcould be raised or lowered a bit to make roughstrips appropriate for big orsmall rods. This has some ideas in common withthemilling rig by BobMilward shown in Best of the Planing Form. Anyone ever tried anything like this - I meanroughbevelled strips with apreliminary taper? Barry -----Original Message-----From: David Kashuba Sent: Monday, December 20, 1999 8:20 AM Subject: Re:Bishop Beveller Tim, I don't know who is the originator of thedesign. Thisbeveller was purchased from J.W. Rods.They (he) has a site at www.jwflyrods.com DavidKashuba Fair OaksCA ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email athttp://www.hotmail.com ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. Allin oneplace.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from lblove@cableone.net Mon Dec 20 18:07:26 1999 MicrosoftSMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11);Mon, 20 Dec 1999 17:07:21 -0700 Subject: re: Planing forms Day 1: boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0043_01BF4B14.E02651A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01BF4B14.E02651A0 Hey Paul,Here is my two cents worth concerning drilling and tapping holes. If you are drilling for a 1/4-20 thread a good idea is to use a 13/64 =Dia. drill( I prefer a #7 or #8 drill). Then use either a "F" drill or a17/64 drill to remove the excess material which will be the clearance =area(this way the hole aligns the tap). Then tap the hole, remember to =use A LOT(can never use to much) of good OIL(sulfurized cutting oil). =Then drill the clearance area to whateversize you wish. I use this tech. for many, many holes a year have never =busted a tap. Most broken taps are a direct result of mis- alignment of the tap and the hole. I can count on both hands and feet = industrial machinist. And most of them were 6-32's, which I have learned=to hate over the years. ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01BF4B14.E02651A0 Hey Paul, drilling and tapping holes. If you are drilling for a 1/4-20 thread a good idea = a 13/64 Dia. drill( I prefer a #7 or #8 drill). Then use either a "F" = a17/64 drill to remove the excess material whichwill = remember to use A LOT(can never use to much) of good OIL(sulfurized = = mis- = industrial machinist. And most of them were 6-32's,= have learned to hate over the years. ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01BF4B14.E02651A0-- from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Mon Dec 20 18:47:30 1999 Subject: Planing forms Day 1 (and a half) boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0032_01BF4B09.9F31E7A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BF4B09.9F31E7A0 Hi, Thanks for all the tips. Two in particular I've decided to use. I'm =combining the tap alignment and only tapping part of the hole and = I'm going to enlarge the holes to be tapped 1/2 of the way (3/8") =through the form. Then I have a 3/8" long guide into the segment to be = I know all about cutting oil. For several summers I used to work in a =sheet metal/machine shop. As the new kid I got the best jobs. I spent =many hours/days/weeks sitting at a drill press fitted with a tapping =clutch tapping holes on angle iron that would end up in instrument =racks. Six feet long and a hole every 3/4". I've tapped more than I care =to think about. However, It's a good thing I got along with everyone =because tapping was far better than working the sanding machine. Today I went and bought a size "F" drill and several 5/18-18 taps and a =14" mill file. that should make filing a bit easier and then I can take = I had fun today running around trying to find the hardware I needed. I =decided to use socket head cap screws. I went to Home Depot and they =don't carry them(grumble grumble). So I went to a hardware store and =found the ones I needed but they only had eight. Aparently, nuts and =bolts, inventory in these stores is maintained by the sales guy. He =comes in and see's what needs refilling and orders it. Well, the =inventory profile for 5/16, 1-1/2" socket head hardened cap screws it =eight pieces. So I had to visit 3 stores to get the 18 pieces I needed. I don't know that I'll get to it tonight but definitly on Tuesday. Paul ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BF4B09.9F31E7A0 Hi, Thanks for all the tips. Two in particular I've = use. I'm combining the tap alignment and only tapping part of the hole = enlarging the rest of the through hole to a clearence diameter. = I'm going to enlarge the holes to be tapped 1/2 of = (3/8") through the form. Then I have a 3/8" long guide into the segment = threaded. I know all about cutting oil. For several summers I = work in a sheet metal/machine shop. As the new kid I got the best jobs. = many hours/days/weeks sitting at a drill press fitted with a tapping = tapping holes on angle iron that would end up in instrument racks. Six = However, It's a good thing I got along with everyone because tapping was = better than working the sanding machine. 5/18-18 taps and a 14" mill file. that should make filing a bit easier = I had fun today running around trying to find the = needed. I decided to use socket head cap screws. I went to Home Depot = don't carry them(grumble grumble). So I went to a hardware store and = ones I needed but they only had eight. Aparently, nuts and bolts, = these stores is maintained by the sales guy. He comes in and see's what = refilling and orders it. Well, the inventory profile for 5/16, 1-1/2" = head hardened cap screws it eight pieces. So I had to visit 3 stores to = 18 pieces I needed. I don't know that I'll get to it tonight but = Tuesday. Paul ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BF4B09.9F31E7A0-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Dec 20 19:01:34 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Mon, 20 Dec 1999 18:53:04 -0600 Subject: Re: Planing forms Day 1 (and a half) boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01DC_01BF4B1C.B4C5E9A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01DC_01BF4B1C.B4C5E9A0 The next time you need such bolts, or screws, look up a bolt and screw =sales house. They'll have what you want, at a fraction of the cost ! GMA Sent: Monday, December 20, 1999 3:45 PMSubject: Planing forms Day 1 (and a half) Hi, Thanks for all the tips. Two in particular I've decided to use. I'm =combining the tap alignment and only tapping part of the hole and = I'm going to enlarge the holes to be tapped 1/2 of the way (3/8") =through the form. Then I have a 3/8" long guide into the segment to be = I know all about cutting oil. For several summers I used to work in a =sheet metal/machine shop. As the new kid I got the best jobs. I spent =many hours/days/weeks sitting at a drill press fitted with a tapping =clutch tapping holes on angle iron that would end up in instrument =racks. Six feet long and a hole every 3/4". I've tapped more than I care =to think about. However, It's a good thing I got along with everyone =because tapping was far better than working the sanding machine. Today I went and bought a size "F" drill and several 5/18-18 taps and =a 14" mill file. that should make filing a bit easier and then I can = I had fun today running around trying to find the hardware I needed. I =decided to use socket head cap screws. I went to Home Depot and they =don't carry them(grumble grumble). So I went to a hardware store and =found the ones I needed but they only had eight. Aparently, nuts and =bolts, inventory in these stores is maintained by the sales guy. He =comes in and see's what needs refilling and orders it. Well, the =inventory profile for 5/16, 1-1/2" socket head hardened cap screws it =eight pieces. So I had to visit 3 stores to get the 18 pieces I needed. I don't know that I'll get to it tonight but definitly on Tuesday. Paul ------=_NextPart_000_01DC_01BF4B1C.B4C5E9A0 The next time you need such bolts, or = a bolt and screw sales house. They'll have what you want, at a fraction = cost ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- = Sent: Monday, December 20, 1999= PMSubject: Planing forms Day 1 = half) Hi, Thanks for all the tips. Two in particular I've = use. I'm combining the tap alignment and only tapping part of the hole = enlarging the rest of the through hole to a clearence diameter. = I'm going to enlarge the holes to be tapped 1/2 of = (3/8") through the form. Then I have a 3/8" long guide into the = threaded. I know all about cutting oil. For several summers = work in a sheet metal/machine shop. As the new kid I got the best = spent many hours/days/weeks sitting at a drill press fitted with a = clutch tapping holes on angle iron that would end up in instrument = about. However, It's a good thing I got along with everyone because = was far better than working the sanding machine. several 5/18-18 taps and a 14" mill file. that should make filing a = surfaces. I had fun today running around trying to find the = needed. I decided to use socket head cap screws. I went to Home Depot = don't carry them(grumble grumble). So I went to a hardware store and = ones I needed but they only had eight. Aparently, nuts and bolts, = these stores is maintained by the sales guy. He comes in and see's = refilling and orders it. Well, the inventory profile for 5/16, 1-1/2" = head hardened cap screws it eight pieces. So I had to visit 3 stores = the 18 pieces I needed. I don't know that I'll get to it tonight but = Tuesday. Paul ------=_NextPart_000_01DC_01BF4B1C.B4C5E9A0-- from thramer@presys.com Mon Dec 20 19:51:39 1999 0000 (64.5.7.18) Subject: Re: Male ferrule pulled off Steve Trauthwein wrote: Open Question I had a rod at a local fly shop. The rod had been test cast and puttogether a number of times. The ferrules had been dressed for what Iwould consider an average pull with a solid pop. They had not beensticking. I get a call from the shop owner that a ferrule pulled off, obviously Itell her not to worry about it and that I will take care of it. I getthe rod home and with some trepidation, I begin to consider how I willget the stuck male out of the female ferrule. I put the section of caneback in the male ferrule and held it against the cane with my fingersand with the steady medium pull, that I had originally lapped theferrule for, it came apart with a nice pop. My question is why in the heck did the male ferrule pull off for them.It was a two person pull. This is my firs, and I hope last, ferrule failure. I use two ton epoxy,clean surfaces with alcohol and really rough up the inside of theferrule. Open to any ideas or suggestions Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Once again the A.J. mantra...If you build any number of rods that have to be sent all around theworld and are used on a daily basis... ferrule cement and a pin.A.J.Thramer from sats@gte.net Mon Dec 20 20:52:54 1999 (1Cust26.tnt4.clearwater.fl.da.uu.net Subject: Decals and the model Airplane A little information on how static plastic modelers use the clear orcoloreddecal sheets might give some ideas about ways to 'cross over' thismaterial. I would paint, draw or even type the design or lettering directly on thedecalI also used press on letters as it was often easier to do it on the cleardecalsheet then on some curved and limited space. After the sheet was dry, I'dput acoat of Future acrylic floor wax over it. (Future is used a lot in plasticmodeling. It looks like hell when applied, but dried to a hard gloss finishthat's about as flat and thin -- important in 1/72 or 1/44 scale -- as youcanget.) Others spray a thin coat of clear hobby enamel. the decals are applied over a gloss surface. Some modelers use a thin coatoflacquer, others use clear gloss hobby enamels. Once the decal is cut,placed inwater, then slid from the backing to the location on the model, it's pattedwitha paper towel and let dry. Then a final coat of clear gloss is sprayed overthesurface to seal the decal into the paint. There are also special chemicalsthatare available to "make the decal lay flat" on the surface. Bamboo decals were much thicker and appeared to be applied directly tothe 'raw'bamboo, then covered with varnish. this could be one of the reasons thattheolder rods often have missing or partly missing decals. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from cattanac@wmis.net Mon Dec 20 21:04:58 1999 0000 Subject: Snake Guide Report The other day Mike McCoy sent me some samples of his snakes guides -ina word - They are the absolute Best snake guides that I have ever seen. Allthe details are there.Over the years ( is that Ol' fartism showing) I have watched the spirialdecline of snake guide and apparently others have felt the samefrustrationand have reacted.What is saw is this - The guides are of eloquent design - each foot is the size #1 is 6/32 in length - the #3 is 8/32 - the hoops are centeredandthe feet fit flat - in other words the guides can be wrapped as arrive -now an hour or more per rod with added frustration. So the Balance is this -paya bit more but save time and gain 'the look'In talking with Mike - he is offering the guides in bronze - (hard)black - (Hard) bright - he is also finalizing the tip tops to accompany thesnake guide. I wish Mike well it appears as if he has put both great timeand effort into this project from saweiss@flash.net Mon Dec 20 23:31:45 1999 Subject: Re: Snake Guide Report Wayne, represent,own, sell for?Thanks,Steve The other day Mike McCoy sent me some samples of his snakes guides-ina word - They are the absolute Best snake guides that I have ever seen.Allthe details are there.Over the years ( is that Ol' fartism showing) I have watched thespirialdecline of snake guide and apparently others have felt the samefrustrationand have reacted.What is saw is this - The guides are of eloquent design - each foot is the size #1 is 6/32 in length - the #3 is 8/32 - the hoops are centeredandthe feet fit flat - in other words the guides can be wrapped as arrive -now isan hour or more per rod with added frustration. So the Balance is this - paya bit more but save time and gain 'the look'In talking with Mike - he is offering the guides in bronze - (hard)black - (Hard) bright - he is also finalizing the tip tops to accompanythesnake guide. I wish Mike well it appears as if he has put both greattimeand effort into this project from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Tue Dec 21 08:31:18 1999 Subject: Re: Snake Guide Report Rodmakers Steve-Try www.snakeguides.com. to read all about Mike McCoy. Dennis from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Dec 21 08:48:15 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Tue, 21 Dec 1999 08:39:45 -0600 Subject: Restoring boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004B_01BF4B90.31A47AE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01BF4B90.31A47AE0 I started stripping the old varnish from a very old fly/casting =combination rod last night. I found a milder stripper called ="Citristrip", at a Home Depot, and it is proving to be an excellent =product. What I once thought was a "browntone" finish, with brown wraps, turns =out to be a beautiful blond cane, with dark red wraps. This rod is very =old, having tiny snake guides throughout, and all the fittings are =nickel silver, including the reversible handle/grip, and reel seat. The =casting tip is only slightly heavier than the fly tip, which is really =fine. The casting tip is the old 3 - ring "E" style, as shown in =Sinclair's book. Although the ferrules are drawn, they are very high quality, and without =the Montague step down style. The only flaw is the butt section has a =long 3" split fracture, centered on a glue line, indicating high quality =cane. The split goes from nothing, to only about .080" deep, so should =mend well with epoxy, and a neat wrap. This rod has multiple mid wraps, on 7/8" centers, for all sections. It =is so old, many of the wraps just disintegrated, as the varnish came =off, yet it's condition indicates it is far from a Montague type =production rod. The fly rod length is 9'- 3", and with its tip will be a ="dry fly action" I'm sure. Do any of you have a guess as to its origin ? George Aldrich (GMA) ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01BF4B90.31A47AE0 I started stripping the old varnish from a = fly/casting combination rod last night. I found a milder stripper called = product. What I once thought was a "browntone" = brown wraps, turns out to be a beautiful blond cane, with dark red = rod is very old, having tiny snake guides throughout, and all the = nickel silver, including the reversible handle/grip, and reel seat. The = tip is only slightly heavier than the fly tip, which is really fine. The = book. Although the ferrules are drawn, they are = quality, and without the Montague step down style. The only flaw is the = section has a long 3" split fracture, centered on a glue line, = quality cane. The split goes from nothing, to only about .080" deep, so = mend well with epoxy, and a neat wrap. This rod has multiple mid wraps, on 7/8" = all sections. It is so old, many of the wraps just disintegrated, as the = came off, yet it's condition indicates it is far from a Montague type = rod. The fly rod length is 9'- 3", and with its tip will be a "dry fly = I'm sure. Do any of you have a guess as to its ? (GMA) ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01BF4B90.31A47AE0-- from landeens@home.com Tue Dec 21 10:13:11 1999 with SMTP 0800 Subject: Another rod finish question boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004B_01BF4B8B.940ED2C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01BF4B8B.940ED2C0 I followed the recent discussion of how various rodmakers finish their =rods and tried one of the methods on my last two rods. I sanded the =first coat of varnish with mineral spirits and 400 grit the second coat =with 600 grit and the third coat with 1200 grit and then applied a =rubbing compound or polish. The flats are crisp and smooth with no =rounded edges but by removing the varnish on the 3rd coat you end up =with a satin like finish after polishing. I personally like the satin =look but have some questions. What is a person really gaining by =applyingthat 3rd coat of varnish if it is going to be basically sanded =off? In fact on a practice blank I polished a section without applying =varnish and it looks and feels exactly the same as a blank that has 3 =coats of varnish and one coat of polish. I am sure that the polish alone =will not fill in the pores or provide the necessary protection against = ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01BF4B8B.940ED2C0 I followed the recent discussion of how various = finish their rods and tried one of the methods on my last two rods. I = first coat of varnish with mineral spirits and 400 grit the second coat = grit and the third coat with 1200 grit and then applied a rubbing = polish. The flats are crisp and smooth with no rounded edges but by = varnish on the 3rd coat you end up with a satin like finish after = personally like the satin look but have some questions. What is a person = gaining by applying that 3rd coat of varnish if it is going to be = sanded off? In fact on a practice blank I polished a section without = varnish and it looks and feels exactly the same as a blank that has 3 = varnish and one coat of polish. I am sure that the polish alone will not = the pores or provide the necessary protection against water etc but I = surprised that looks wise there was no difference. = ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01BF4B8B.940ED2C0-- from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Tue Dec 21 11:01:51 1999 JAA07843 ESMTP; Tue, 21Dec 1999 08:09:51 -0800 (5.5.2448.0) "'saweiss@flash.net'" Subject: RE: Snake Guide Report SNAKE BRANDE http://www.snakeguides.com/ Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ----------From: Steven Weiss[SMTP:saweiss@flash.net] Sent: Monday, December 20, 1999 9:32 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Snake Guide Report Wayne, represent,own, sell for?Thanks,Steve The other day Mike McCoy sent me some samples of his snakes guides-ina word - They are the absolute Best snake guides that I have ever seen.Allthe details are there.Over the years ( is that Ol' fartism showing) I have watched thespirialdecline of snake guide and apparently others have felt the samefrustrationand have reacted.What is saw is this - The guides are of eloquent design - each footis -the size #1 is 6/32 in length - the #3 is 8/32 - the hoops are centeredandthe feet fit flat - in other words the guides can be wrapped as arrive -now isan hour or more per rod with added frustration. So the Balance is this - paya bit more but save time and gain 'the look'In talking with Mike - he is offering the guides in bronze - (hard)black - (Hard) bright - he is also finalizing the tip tops to accompanythesnake guide. I wish Mike well it appears as if he has put both greattimeand effort into this project from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Dec 21 13:24:50 1999 Subject: Golden Witch, WOW thramer@presys.com,saltwein@swbell.net, saweiss@flash.net List,I just got the new catalog from Golden Witch, WOW, is it awesome. Thisis one of the nicest examples of a catalog designed for us I have ever seen. There are some incredible pictures in there of the items for sale and it is really nice to be able to see before buying. I myself am eyeballing the Bellinger Binder for purchase hopefully in the spring or early summer. I also dropped this in front of my wife last night with certain things underlined for Christmas. Hope she takes the hint. There are leaders for you guys who want the best leaders you can get anywhere. I have had a lot of experience using the ones Russ is carrying here and I would encourage you to try them yourself. They are all handtied flies for a living. Try them I guarantee you will like them. I have used them for Atlantic Salmon and I have used his trout leaders too and they all lay out like you will not believe. from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Tue Dec 21 13:39:51 1999 Subject: RE: Golden Witch, WOW afterseveral orders. Products and service first rate, and Russ has also beenveryhelpful. This is the kind of outfit I like to support with my business - -and no, I have no personal or financial relationship with GW. Barry Kling -----Original Message----- thramer@presys.com;saltwein@swbell.net; saweiss@flash.net Subject: Golden Witch, WOW List,I just got the new catalog from Golden Witch, WOW, is it awesome. Thisis one of the nicest examples of a catalog designed for us I have ever seen. There are some incredible pictures in there of the items for sale and it is really nice to be able to see before buying. I myself am eyeballing the Bellinger Binder for purchase hopefully in the spring or early summer. I also dropped this in front of my wife last night with certain things underlined for Christmas. Hope she takes the hint. There are leaders for you guys who want the best leaders you can get anywhere. I have had a lot of experience using the ones Russ is carrying here and I would encourage you to try them yourself. They are all handtied flies for a living. Try them I guarantee you will like them. I have used them for Atlantic Salmon and I have used his trout leaders too and they all lay out like you will not believe. from caneman@clnk.com Tue Dec 21 14:00:24 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Tue, 21 Dec 1999 13:58:24 -0600 Subject: Re: Another rod finish question boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00E9_01BF4BBB.19F1AE60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00E9_01BF4BBB.19F1AE60 The satin finish puzzles me. My rods polish out to a high gloss. May =be the difference in the varnish or polish we are using. My rods =usually go more than 3 coats, but I do sand a lot of each coat off, and =many think, unnecessarily, but the final result is a nice level high =gloss finish, not a satin one. ????? bob-----Original Message-----From: Landeens Date: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 10:18 AMSubject: Another rod finish question I followed the recent discussion of how various rodmakers finish =their rods and tried one of the methods on my last two rods. I sanded =the first coat of varnish with mineral spirits and 400 grit the second =coat with 600 grit and the third coat with 1200 grit and then applied a =rubbing compound or polish. The flats are crisp and smooth with no =rounded edges but by removing the varnish on the 3rd coat you end up =with a satin like finish after polishing. I personally like the satin =look but have some questions. What is a person really gaining by =applying that 3rd coat of varnish if it is going to be basically sanded =off? In fact on a practice blank I polished a section without applying =varnish and it looks and feels exactly the same as a blank that has 3 =coats of varnish and one coat of polish. I am sure that the polish alone =will not fill in the pores or provide the necessary protection against = ------=_NextPart_000_00E9_01BF4BBB.19F1AE60 The satin finish puzzles each coat off, and many think, unnecessarily, but the final result is a = bob -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Tuesday, December 21, 1999 10:18 AMSubject: Another= finish questionI followed the recent discussion of how various = finish their rods and tried one of the methods on my last two rods. = the first coat of varnish with mineral spirits and 400 grit the = with 600 grit and the third coat with 1200 grit and then applied a = compound or polish. The flats are crisp and smooth with no rounded = after polishing. I personally like the satin look but have some = What is a person really gaining by applying that 3rd coat of varnish = is going to be basically sanded off? In fact on a practice blank I = a section without applying varnish and it looks and feels exactly = as a blank that has 3 coats of varnish and one coat of polish. I am = that the polish alone will not fill in the pores or provide the = protection against water etc but I was surprised that looks wise = no difference. ------=_NextPart_000_00E9_01BF4BBB.19F1AE60-- from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Tue Dec 21 14:27:02 1999 15:26:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Restoring boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0496_01BF4BC7.FC6F9750" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0496_01BF4BC7.FC6F9750 Do any of you have a guess as to its origin ? Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 9:48 AMSubject: Restoring I started stripping the old varnish from a very old fly/casting =combination rod last night. I found a milder stripper called ="Citristrip", at a Home Depot, and it is proving to be an excellent =product. What I once thought was a "browntone" finish, with brown wraps, turns =out to be a beautiful blond cane, with dark red wraps. This rod is very =old, having tiny snake guides throughout, and all the fittings are =nickel silver, including the reversible handle/grip, and reel seat. The =casting tip is only slightly heavier than the fly tip, which is really =fine. The casting tip is the old 3 - ring "E" style, as shown in =Sinclair's book. Although the ferrules are drawn, they are very high quality, and =without the Montague step down style. The only flaw is the butt section =has a long 3" split fracture, centered on a glue line, indicating high =quality cane. The split goes from nothing, to only about .080" deep, so =should mend well with epoxy, and a neat wrap. This rod has multiple mid wraps, on 7/8" centers, for all sections. It =is so old, many of the wraps just disintegrated, as the varnish came =off, yet it's condition indicates it is far from a Montague type =production rod. The fly rod length is 9'- 3", and with its tip will be a ="dry fly action" I'm sure. Do any of you have a guess as to its origin ? George Aldrich (GMA) ------=_NextPart_000_0496_01BF4BC7.FC6F9750 ? Original Message ----- nobler Sent: Tuesday, December 21, = AMSubject: Restoring I started stripping the old varnish from a= fly/casting combination rod last night. I found a milder stripper = product. What I once thought was a "browntone" = brown wraps, turns out to be a beautiful blond cane, with dark red = rod is very old, having tiny snake guides throughout, and all the = nickel silver, including the reversible handle/grip, and reel seat. = casting tip is only slightly heavier than the fly tip, which is really = book. Although the ferrules are drawn, they are= quality, and without the Montague step down style. The only flaw is = section has a long 3" split fracture, centered on a glue line, = quality cane. The split goes from nothing, to only about .080" deep, = mend well with epoxy, and a neat wrap. This rod has multiple mid wraps, on 7/8"= varnish came off, yet it's condition indicates it is far from a = production rod. The fly rod length is 9'- 3", and with its tip will be = fly action" I'm sure. Do any of you have a guess as to its = ? (GMA) ------=_NextPart_000_0496_01BF4BC7.FC6F9750-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Dec 21 15:23:36 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Tue, 21 Dec 1999 15:15:03 -0600 Subject: Re: Golden Witch, WOW boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004D_01BF4BC7.6BC65B80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01BF4BC7.6BC65B80 Does Golden Witch have a web site ? GMA Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 1:39 PMSubject: RE: Golden Witch, WOW afterseveral orders. Products and service first rate, and Russ has also =been veryhelpful. This is the kind of outfit I like to support with my business =--and no, I have no personal or financial relationship with GW. Barry Kling -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 1:23 PM thramer@presys.com;saltwein@swbell.net; saweiss@flash.netCc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Golden Witch, WOW List,I just got the new catalog from Golden Witch, WOW, is it awesome. = one of the nicest examples of a catalog designed for us I have ever = There are some incredible pictures in there of the items for sale and = really nice to be able to see before buying. I myself am eyeballing = Bellinger Binder for purchase hopefully in the spring or early summer. = anywhere. I have had a lot of experience using the ones Russ is = here and I would encourage you to try them yourself. They are all =hand tied flies for a living. Try them I guarantee you will like them. I have = them for Atlantic Salmon and I have used his trout leaders too and = lay out like you will not believe. ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01BF4BC7.6BC65B80 ? GMA ----- Original Message ----- Kling, Barry W. = Sent: Tuesday, December 21, = PMSubject: RE: Golden Witch, =WOW Golden Witch afterseveral orders. Products and service first rate, = Russ has also been veryhelpful. This is the kind of outfit I like = support with my business --and no, I have no personal or financial = Golden Witch, WOWList,I just got the new catalog from= pictures in there of the items for sale and it is really nice to = this in front of my wife last night with certain things underlined = have had a lot of experience using the ones Russ is carrying here = tiedby a guy in Pennsylvannia and this is all this guy does is = believe. ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01BF4BC7.6BC65B80-- from weehughie@home.com Tue Dec 21 15:37:42 1999 (HELO 206.132.96.13) Tue, 21 Dec 1999 16:34:39 -0500 bymail1.about.com with SMTP (MailShield v1.5); Tue, 21 Dec 1999 16:34:28 - 0500 Subject: RE: Golden Witch, WOW boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01BF4BD1.9D3C8360" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BF4BD1.9D3C8360 http://www.goldenwitch.com/ Ian Scotthttp://flyfishing.about.com/ -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 4:24 PM Subject: Re: Golden Witch, WOW Does Golden Witch have a web site ? GMA----- Original Message -----From: Kling, Barry W. Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 1:39 PMSubject: RE: Golden Witch, WOW afterseveral orders. Products and service first rate, and Russ has also beenveryhelpful. This is the kind of outfit I like to support with mybusiness -- and no, I have no personal or financial relationship with GW. Barry Kling -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 1:23 PM thramer@presys.com;saltwein@swbell.net; saweiss@flash.netCc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Golden Witch, WOW List,I just got the new catalog from Golden Witch, WOW, is it awesome. Thisisone of the nicest examples of a catalog designed for us I have everseen.There are some incredible pictures in there of the items for sale and itisreally nice to be able to see before buying. I myself am eyeballing theBellinger Binder for purchase hopefully in the spring or early summer.Ialso dropped this in front of my wife last night with certain thingsunderlined for Christmas. Hope she takes the hint. There are leaders for you guys who want the best leaders you can getanywhere. I have had a lot of experience using the ones Russ iscarryinghere and I would encourage you to try them yourself. They are all handtied andflies for a living. Try them I guarantee you will like them. I haveusedthem for Atlantic Salmon and I have used his trout leaders too and theyalllay out like you will not believe. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BF4BD1.9D3C8360 http://www.goldenwitch.com/ Scotthttp://flyfishing.about.com/ noblerSent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 4:24 = KlingB@health.missouri.edu; = Golden Witch, WOW ? GMA ----- Original Message ----- Kling, Barry W. = Sent: Tuesday, December 21, = PMSubject: RE: Golden Witch, =WOW Golden Witch afterseveral orders. Products and service first = Russ has also been veryhelpful. This is the kind of outfit I = support with my business --and no, I have no personal or = relationship with GW.Barry Kling----- cattanac@wmis.net; thramer@presys.com;saltwein@swbell.net; saweiss@flash.netCc:rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Golden Witch, WOWList,I just got the new catalog = incredible pictures in there of the items for sale and it is = the ones Russ is carrying here and I would encourage you to try = this is all this guy does is tie leaders and flies for a = Atlantic Salmon and I have used his trout leaders too and they all = out like you will not =believe. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BF4BD1.9D3C8360-- from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Tue Dec 21 15:51:56 1999 Subject: RE: Golden Witch, WOW Yes, it's goldenwitch.com. BK -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Golden Witch, WOW Does Golden Witch have a web site ? GMA ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Golden Witch, WOW afterseveral orders. Products and service first rate, and Russ has also beenveryhelpful. This is the kind of outfit I like to support with my business - -and no, I have no personal or financial relationship with GW. Barry Kling -----Original Message----- cattanac@wmis.net ; thramer@presys.com;saltwein@swbell.net ; saweiss@flash.net Subject: Golden Witch, WOW List,I just got the new catalog from Golden Witch, WOW, is it awesome. Thisis one of the nicest examples of a catalog designed for us I have ever seen. There are some incredible pictures in there of the items for sale and it is really nice to be able to see before buying. I myself am eyeballing the Bellinger Binder for purchase hopefully in the spring or early summer. I also dropped this in front of my wife last night with certain things underlined for Christmas. Hope she takes the hint. There are leaders for you guys who want the best leaders you can get anywhere. I have had a lot of experience using the ones Russ is carrying here and I would encourage you to try them yourself. They are all handtied flies for a living. Try them I guarantee you will like them. I have used them for Atlantic Salmon and I have used his trout leaders too and they all lay out like you will not believe. from landeens@home.com Tue Dec 21 17:03:51 1999 with SMTP ;Tue, 21 Dec 1999 15:03:47 -0800 Subject: Re: Another rod finish question boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0072_01BF4BC4.F36021A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0072_01BF4BC4.F36021A0 I use Pratt and Lamber R10 High Gloss varnish and have used two types of=polish with the same result: 1) Behlen Deluxing Compound from Woodcraft=and 2) Mequiar's Cleaner Wax. I don't know if you would classify the =final result as a true satin but it is definitely not a high gloss. It =still looks good but I must be doing something different to not achieve =that high gloss look. Is there a chance I may be sanding too much on the =final coat? Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 11:55 AMSubject: Re: Another rod finish question The satin finish puzzles me. My rods polish out to a high gloss. May =be the difference in the varnish or polish we are using. My rods =usually go more than 3 coats, but I do sand a lot of each coat off, and =many think, unnecessarily, but the final result is a nice level high =gloss finish, not a satin one. ????? bob-----Original Message-----From: Landeens Date: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 10:18 AMSubject: Another rod finish question I followed the recent discussion of how various rodmakers finish =their rods and tried one of the methods on my last two rods. I sanded =the first coat of varnish with mineral spirits and 400 grit the second =coat with 600 grit and the third coat with 1200 grit and then applied a =rubbing compound or polish. The flats are crisp and smooth with no =rounded edges but by removing the varnish on the 3rd coat you end up =with a satin like finish after polishing. I personally like the satin =look but have some questions. What is a person really gaining by =applying that 3rd coat of varnish if it is going to be basically sanded =off? In fact on a practice blank I polished a section without applying =varnish and it looks and feels exactly the same as a blank that has 3 =coats of varnish and one coat of polish. I am sure that the polish alone =will not fill in the pores or provide the necessary protection against = ------=_NextPart_000_0072_01BF4BC4.F36021A0 I use Pratt and Lamber R10 High Gloss varnish and = two types of polish with the same result: 1) Behlen Deluxing Compound = Woodcraft and 2) Mequiar's Cleaner Wax. I don't know if you would = final result as a true satin but it is definitely not a high gloss. It = looks good but I must be doing something different to not achieve that = coat?----- Original Message ----- Bob =Nunley = Sent: Tuesday, December 21, = AMSubject: Re: Another rod finish = question The satin finish puzzles a lot of each coat off, and many think, unnecessarily, but the final = ????? bob -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Tuesday, December 21, 1999 10:18 AMSubject: Another= finish questionI followed the recent discussion of how various = finish their rods and tried one of the methods on my last two rods. = the first coat of varnish with mineral spirits and 400 grit the = with 600 grit and the third coat with 1200 grit and then applied a = compound or polish. The flats are crisp and smooth with no rounded = after polishing. I personally like the satin look but have some = What is a person really gaining by applying that 3rd coat of varnish = is going to be basically sanded off? In fact on a practice blank I = a section without applying varnish and it looks and feels exactly = as a blank that has 3 coats of varnish and one coat of polish. I am = that the polish alone will not fill in the pores or provide the = protection against water etc but I was surprised that looks wise = no difference. ------=_NextPart_000_0072_01BF4BC4.F36021A0-- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Dec 21 17:41:47 1999 Subject: Re: Another rod finish question If you guys are rubbing rods down with rotten stone or some such thinguse oil as a lubricant with it for gloss finish and then polish with wax. from rmoon@ida.net Tue Dec 21 18:05:11 1999 0000 Subject: Re: Another rod finish question Frankly, I would be proud to have a nice satin finish; High Gloss looksgood, but like most flies it is to catch the fisherman. Most fish areturned off.Ralph from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Dec 21 18:14:28 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Tue, 21 Dec 1999 18:14:45 -0600 Subject: Re: Another rod finish question boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0046_01BF4BDF.4A83B900" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0046_01BF4BDF.4A83B900 Something I've learned in over 50 years of hand rubbed finishes is:1.) The harder the finish, the higher the gloss2.) The finer the rubbing compound, the higher the gloss. I recall one here, stating that he cures each coat of varnish 30 days, =or so, in a drying cabinet. The satin finish could be from the varnish =just being to soft. Just a suggestion, GMA Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 5:41 PMSubject: Re: Another rod finish question If you guys are rubbing rods down with rotten stone or some such thing = oil as a lubricant with it for gloss finish and then polish with wax. ------=_NextPart_000_0046_01BF4BDF.4A83B900 Something I've learned in over 50 years of= finishes is: gloss2.) The finer the rubbing compound, the = gloss. I recall one here, stating that he cures = varnish 30 days, or so, in a drying cabinet. The satin finish could be = Just asuggestion, GMA ----- Original Message ----- Grhghlndr@aol.com = Sent: Tuesday, December 21, = PMSubject: Re: Another rod finish = questionIf you guys are rubbing rods down with rotten stone or = such thing use oil as a lubricant with it for gloss finish and = with wax. ------=_NextPart_000_0046_01BF4BDF.4A83B900-- from anglport@con2.com Tue Dec 21 18:44:10 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id AEA820B0344; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 19:43:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Another rod finish question Ralph,I've ben waiting to see if anyone else had your comment. Do thosewho bluetheir ferrules to avoid reflections then polish their cane to a mirrorfinish or are they separate sub-groups?Art At 04:58 PM 12/21/1999 -0700, Ralph W Moon wrote:Frankly, I would be proud to have a nice satin finish; High Gloss looksgood, but like most flies it is to catch the fisherman. Most fish areturned off.Ralph *Some people can tell what time it is by looking at the sun, but I never have been able to make out the numbers.* from channer@outerbounds.net Tue Dec 21 20:56:44 1999 taz.outerbounds.net(Rockliffe SMTPRA 3.4.2) with ESMTP idfor;Tue, 21 Dec 1999 19:56:25 -0700 Subject: test from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Tue Dec 21 21:22:55 1999 Subject: Re: Golden Witch, WOW Wow ! twice as much money Wow! a dip tank with no motor for a merethree hundred something dollars. Wow !! a forty dollar reel seat for seventy-five dollars Jeez I should get a better job ! from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Dec 21 21:37:06 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Tue, 21 Dec 1999 21:37:20 -0600 Subject: Re: Golden Witch, WOW boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01BF4BFB.97A969C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BF4BFB.97A969C0 Yes, I just got a tackle catalog from England ! Wow, we couldn't afford =much over there ! A Sage goes for close to $1000, and a decent fly line =almost $100 ! GMA Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 9:22 PMSubject: Re: Golden Witch, WOW Wow ! twice as much money Wow! a dip tank with no motor for a mere = hundred something dollars. Wow !! a forty dollar reel seat for = Jeez I should get a better job ! ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BF4BFB.97A969C0 Yes, I just got a tackle catalog from = we couldn't afford much over there ! A Sage goes for close to $1000, and = decent fly line almost $100 ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- Eastkoyfly@aol.com = Sent: Tuesday, December 21, = PMSubject: Re: Golden Witch, =WOW tank = motor for a mere three hundred something dollars. Wow !! a forty = = Jeez I should get a better job ! ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BF4BFB.97A969C0-- from mrmac@tcimet.net Tue Dec 21 22:38:04 1999 Subject: Re: Another rod finish question Having recently had the opportunity to check into R10, I found that itis a polyurethane varnish, as opposed to a spar varnish. Now, I'm anovice/rookie here, but what I've read so far suggests that sparvarnishes can be polished, but that supposedly, polyurethanes can not.Perhaps I'm reading too much into the "can't polish a polyurethane",since it would seem to me that most anything, even plastics, could bepolished if you approached the task correctly, but perhaps the problemis that the materials you are using to do a polyurethane are moreproperly intended to work with spar varnishes? Folks with more experience than me (that's just about *all* of them!)would have to confirm or correct, since as I said, this is only based onwhat I've read as I'm getting ready to do some finishing. FWIW regards and season's greetings to everyone - mac Landeens wrote: I use Pratt and Lamber R10 High Gloss varnish and have used two typesof polish with the same result: 1) Behlen Deluxing Compound fromWoodcraft and 2) Mequiar's Cleaner Wax. I don't know if you wouldclassify the final result as a true satin but it is definitely not ahigh gloss. It still looks good but I must be doing somethingdifferent to not achieve that high gloss look. Is there a chance I maybe sanding too much on the final coat?----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Nunley Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 11:55 AMSubject: Re: Another rod finish questionThe satin finish puzzles me. My rods polish out to a highgloss. May be the difference in the varnish or polish weare using. My rods usually go more than 3 coats, but I dosand a lot of each coat off, and many think, unnecessarily,but the final result is a nice level high gloss finish, nota satin one. ????? bob -----Original Message-----From: Landeens Date: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 10:18 AMSubject: Another rod finish questionI followed the recent discussion of how variousrodmakers finish their rods and tried one of themethods on my last two rods. I sanded the firstcoat of varnish with mineral spirits and 400 gritthe second coat with 600 grit and the third coatwith 1200 grit and then applied a rubbing compoundor polish. The flats are crisp and smooth with norounded edges but by removing the varnish on the3rd coat you end up with a satin like finish afterpolishing. I personally like the satin look buthave some questions. What is a person reallygaining by applying that 3rd coat of varnish if itis going to be basically sanded off? In fact on apractice blank I polished a section withoutapplying varnish and it looks and feels exactlythe same as a blank that has 3 coats of varnishand one coat of polish. I am sure that the polishalone will not fill in the pores or provide thenecessary protection against water etc but I wassurprised that looks wise there was no difference. from barry@barryblessing.com Wed Dec 22 00:18:25 1999 1.2.1)with SMTP id 64871751; Tue Dec 21 22:18 PST 1999 Subject: Re: Another rod finish question Howdy! I acquired this evening an "antique" cane fly rod at an antique mall here inDes Moines, Iowa. Perhaps someone can help determine worth and how togetit restored to a more beautiful condition. The rod came in a box made of wood not unlike that used for cigar boxes,butwith a red plastic handle. The rod is 8' and breaks down into threesections. Cork handle. Cane in perfect condition. Guides, cork, andespecially the metal parts of the rod are in poor condition. The onlymarkings on the rod are a partially worn-off sticker just above the corkthat features a red crown on top, a golden griffin [lion] in the middle,golden olive branches around the griffin, and a little white banner thatsays Tokyo, Japan on it just below the griffin. There are no othermarkingson the rod that I can find. First of all...who made this rod? Second....who would be best able to restore it to a better condition? E-mail at work is barry.blessing@nmb.norwest.com if any of you wouldlike toconverse during the day about this rod. I would definitely appreciate anyhelp you could offer. Barry Blessing from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Dec 22 03:07:59 1999 Wed, 22 Dec 1999 17:07:31 +0800 Subject: Re: Golden Witch, WOW types="text/plain,text/html";boundary="=====================_450930==_.ALT" --=====================_450930==_.ALT Generaly speaking you can subtract 15% VAT from those prices as unlessyou're apart of the EUC these don't apply. Tony At 09:37 PM 12/21/99 -0600, nobler wrote: Yes, I just got a tackle catalog from England ! Wow, we couldn't affordmuchover there ! A Sage goes for close to $1000, and a decent fly line almost$100 ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- From: Eastkoyfly@aol.com rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 9:22 PM Subject: Re: Golden Witch, WOW Wow ! twice as much money Wow! a dip tank with no motor for a merethree hundred something dollars. Wow !! a forty dollar reel seat forseventy-five dollars Jeez I should get a better job ! /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_450930==_.ALT Generaly speaking you can subtract 15% VAT from those prices as unlessyou're a part of the EUC these don't apply. Tony At 09:37 PM 12/21/99 -0600, nobler wrote: Yes, I just got a tacklecatalog from England ! Wow, we couldn't afford much over there ! A Sagegoes for close to $1000, and a decent fly line almost $100! GMA ----- Original Message ----- From:Eastkoyfly@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 9:22 PMSubject: Re: Golden Witch, WOW motor for a mere threehundred something dollars. Wow !! a forty dollar reel seat for seventy-five Jeez I should get a better job ! /*************************************************************************/AV Young And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_450930==_.ALT-- from rvenneri@ulster.net Wed Dec 22 04:18:46 1999 0500 Subject: test are we off again or is it mebob v from KPres375@aol.com Wed Dec 22 05:37:52 1999 Subject: Re: Golden Witch, WOW In a message dated 12/22/99 4:00:42 AM, Eastkoyfly@aol.com writes: WOW! Is right. The rods are beautiful I especially like the feathers embedded in the finish (something I'll have to have a go at) and the site is a real piece of artistry. Makes me wish I could do as well for myself. Oyyy though the prices... Ken from utzerath@execpc.com Wed Dec 22 06:32:05 1999 0600 Subject: Bluing supply source? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF4C45.FA8F1A40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF4C45.FA8F1A40 I'd like to blue NS ferrules to match the purple-black of TiCarbide =guides. Where can I buy the right stuff? I looked at the Birchwood =Casey web site, and they've got about four different brass oxidizers =none of which are called "brass black" that has been oft mentioned in =these forums. Their site does not mention a retail source either. I haven't tried the photo fixer formula, but that's reputed to give a = ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF4C45.FA8F1A40 I'd like to blue NS ferrules to = looked at the Birchwood Casey web site, and they've got about four = brass oxidizers none of which are called "brass black" that = either. I haven't tried the photo fixer = that's reputed to give a brown (sulfide?) = ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF4C45.FA8F1A40-- from lars32@gateway.net Wed Dec 22 06:55:57 1999 Subject: Re: Cork Source The best cork I have found comes from C&D trading telephone (612) 572-9876Email ckishish@isd.net No comm Int etc.Dave Norling-----Original Message----- Subject: Cork Source Well, I need cork again. I was a complete idiot and failed to order intime for a discount after a rodmakers gathering. I also think I mayhave missed a group buy offered here on the list. Could a few of you good souls who have a reliable and quality source ofcork tip your hand and let me in on who you think has the best cork andthe best prices. If the minimums are huge, that's ok. Also, if the maker who was organizing a group buy is still in theprocess of getting one together, I'd be more than happy to hear fromhim. Rick from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Dec 22 07:23:51 1999 0000 1999 05:23:48 PST Subject: Re: Another rod finish question ralph, this is a good point. this summer i wasfishing a big river up north. there was a fishermandirectly across the river from me. the fellow keptwaving his arm and yelling something at me. icouldn't hear him for the rushing water. 45min laterhe got close enough that we could holler back andforth. he yelled is it a woodie? i looked around fora minute then realised he was talking about my rod inhand and said yes. he yelled back that he thought itwas because he could see the flash of the ferruleacross the river. i carry a sharpie marker in mypocket and when i took a break on the bank later icolored up my ferrule. it stayed that way all summer.timothy --- Ralph W Moon wrote:Frankly, I would be proud to have a nice satinfinish; High Gloss looksgood, but like most flies it is to catch thefisherman. Most fish areturned off.Ralph ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Dec 22 08:08:21 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Wed, 22 Dec 1999 07:59:45 -0600 Subject: Re: Bluing supply source? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0045_01BF4C53.C7550E60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01BF4C53.C7550E60 I think one on the list named LeClaire(sp.) has a solution that does =this. GMA Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 6:30 AMSubject: Bluing supply source? I'd like to blue NS ferrules to match the purple-black of TiCarbide =guides. Where can I buy the right stuff? I looked at the Birchwood =Casey web site, and they've got about four different brass oxidizers =none of which are called "brass black" that has been oft mentioned in =these forums. Their site does not mention a retail source either. I haven't tried the photo fixer formula, but that's reputed to give a = ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01BF4C53.C7550E60 I think one on the list named LeClaire(sp.)= solution that does this. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Jim = Utzerath = Sent: Wednesday, December 22, = AMSubject: Bluing supply =source? I'd like to blue NS ferrules to = I looked at the Birchwood Casey web site, and they've got about four = brass oxidizers none of which are called "brass black" that has been = either. I haven't tried the photo fixer = ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01BF4C53.C7550E60-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Dec 22 08:40:47 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Wed, 22 Dec 1999 08:31:06 -0600 Subject: Re: Another rod finish question boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0090_01BF4C58.289D6560" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0090_01BF4C58.289D6560 Others here have made comments about the poly urethanes not polishing =well. I've not tried them on cane, so have no experience. I varnished my =rods with what I assume was spar varnish, back in the 1950's (Weber or =the like). Not a fancy finish, hand rubbed, etc., but just two good =brushed on coats. Almost 47 years later, they are just the same, as when =finished. I have never allowed them to be stored at high temperatures, =and they've always been in their bags and tubes. I can only assume that rods with cracked, and checkered out varnish, =were not cared for in this way. I'd really like to hear from others, on =this subject. GMA Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 10:37 PMSubject: Re: Another rod finish question Having recently had the opportunity to check into R10, I found that itis a polyurethane varnish, as opposed to a spar varnish. Now, I'm anovice/rookie here, but what I've read so far suggests that sparvarnishes can be polished, but that supposedly, polyurethanes can not.Perhaps I'm reading too much into the "can't polish a polyurethane",since it would seem to me that most anything, even plastics, could bepolished if you approached the task correctly, but perhaps the problemis that the materials you are using to do a polyurethane are moreproperly intended to work with spar varnishes? Folks with more experience than me (that's just about *all* of them!)would have to confirm or correct, since as I said, this is only based =onwhat I've read as I'm getting ready to do some finishing. FWIW regards and season's greetings to everyone - mac Landeens wrote: I use Pratt and Lamber R10 High Gloss varnish and have used two =typesof polish with the same result: 1) Behlen Deluxing Compound fromWoodcraft and 2) Mequiar's Cleaner Wax. I don't know if you wouldclassify the final result as a true satin but it is definitely not ahigh gloss. It still looks good but I must be doing somethingdifferent to not achieve that high gloss look. Is there a chance I =maybe sanding too much on the final coat?----- Original Message --- -- From: Bob Nunley Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 11:55 AMSubject: Re: Another rod finish questionThe satin finish puzzles me. My rods polish out to a highgloss. May be the difference in the varnish or polish weare using. My rods usually go more than 3 coats, but I dosand a lot of each coat off, and many think, unnecessarily,but the final result is a nice level high gloss finish, nota satin one. ????? bob -----Original Message-----From: Landeens Date: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 10:18 AMSubject: Another rod finish questionI followed the recent discussion of how variousrodmakers finish their rods and tried one of themethods on my last two rods. I sanded the firstcoat of varnish with mineral spirits and 400 gritthe second coat with 600 grit and the third coatwith 1200 grit and then applied a rubbing compoundor polish. The flats are crisp and smooth with norounded edges but by removing the varnish on the3rd coat you end up with a satin like finish afterpolishing. I personally like the satin look buthave some questions. What is a person reallygaining by applying that 3rd coat of varnish if itis going to be basically sanded off? In fact on apractice blank I polished a section withoutapplying varnish and it looks and feels exactlythe same as a blank that has 3 coats of varnishand one coat of polish. I am sure that the polishalone will not fill in the pores or provide thenecessary protection against water etc but I wassurprised that looks wise there was no difference. ------=_NextPart_000_0090_01BF4C58.289D6560 Others here have made comments about the= experience. I varnished my rods with what I assume was spar varnish, = 1950's (Weber or the like). Not a fancy finish, hand rubbed, etc., but = good brushed on coats. Almost 47 years later, they are just the same, as = finished. I have never allowed them to be stored at high temperatures, = they've always been in their bags and tubes. I can only assume that rods with cracked,= checkered out varnish, were not cared for in this way. I'd really like = from others, on this subject. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Ralph= Cc: caneman@clnk.com ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Tuesday, December 21, = PMSubject: Re: Another rod finish = questionHaving recently had the opportunity to check into R10, = that itis a polyurethane varnish, as opposed to a spar = sparvarnishes can be polished, but that supposedly, polyurethanes = polyurethane",since it would seem to me that most anything, even = could bepolished if you approached the task correctly, but perhaps = problemis that the materials you are using to do a polyurethane = moreproperly intended to work with spar varnishes?Folks = experience than me (that's just about *all* of them!)would have to = or correct, since as I said, this is only based onwhat I've read = getting ready to do some finishing.FWIWregards and = greetings to everyone -macLandeens Pratt and Lamber R10 High Gloss varnish and have used two = polish with the same result: 1) Behlen Deluxing Compound Woodcraft and 2) Mequiar's Cleaner Wax. I don't know if you = classify the final result as a true satin but it is definitely not = different to not achieve that high gloss look. Is there a chance I = = = nice level high gloss finish, = = =Message----- <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ------=_NextPart_000_0090_01BF4C58.289D6560-- from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Dec 22 09:03:16 1999 1999 07:03:14 PST Subject: Re: Another rod finish question greetings! i have a friend that has been usingformby's tung oil varnish mixture for better than25yrs without a hitch. i've seen some rods that weredone 25yrs ago and fished well. they were taken wellcare of. john does not keep his rods in tubes tho' hehangs the socks in a row from the rafters in thebasement close to his work area where he can see them.i'm not a fan of air tight containers for rods. idrill holes in tubes. timothy --- nobler wrote:Others here have made comments about the polyurethanes not polishing well. I've not tried them oncane, so have no experience. I varnished my rodswith what I assume was spar varnish, back in the1950's (Weber or the like). Not a fancy finish, handrubbed, etc., but just two good brushed on coats.Almost 47 years later, they are just the same, aswhen finished. I have never allowed them to bestored at high temperatures, and they've always beenin their bags and tubes. I can only assume that rods with cracked, andcheckered out varnish, were not cared for in thisway. I'd really like to hear from others, on thissubject. GMA----- Original Message ----- From: Ralph MacKenzie Cc: caneman@clnk.com ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 10:37 PMSubject: Re: Another rod finish question Having recently had the opportunity to check intoR10, I found that itis a polyurethane varnish, as opposed to a sparvarnish. Now, I'm anovice/rookie here, but what I've read so farsuggests that sparvarnishes can be polished, but that supposedly,polyurethanes can not.Perhaps I'm reading too much into the "can'tpolish a polyurethane",since it would seem to me that most anything, evenplastics, could bepolished if you approached the task correctly, butperhaps the problemis that the materials you are using to do apolyurethane are moreproperly intended to work with spar varnishes? Folks with more experience than me (that's justabout *all* of them!)would have to confirm or correct, since as I said,this is only based onwhat I've read as I'm getting ready to do somefinishing. FWIW regards and season's greetings to everyone - mac Landeens wrote: I use Pratt and Lamber R10 High Gloss varnishand have used two typesof polish with the same result: 1) BehlenDeluxing Compound fromWoodcraft and 2) Mequiar's Cleaner Wax. I don'tknow if you wouldclassify the final result as a true satin but itis definitely not ahigh gloss. It still looks good but I must bedoing somethingdifferent to not achieve that high gloss look.Is there a chance I maybe sanding too much on the final coat?-----Original Message ----- From: Bob Nunley Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 11:55 AMSubject: Re: Another rod finish questionThe satin finish puzzles me. My rodspolish out to a highgloss. May be the difference in thevarnish or polish weare using. My rods usually go more than 3coats, but I dosand a lot of each coat off, and manythink, unnecessarily,but the final result is a nice level highgloss finish, nota satin one. ????? bob -----Original Message-----From: Landeens Date: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 10:18AMSubject: Another rod finish questionI followed the recent discussion ofhow variousrodmakers finish their rods and triedone of themethods on my last two rods. I sandedthe firstcoat of varnish with mineral spiritsand 400 gritthe second coat with 600 grit and thethird coatwith 1200 grit and then applied arubbing compoundor polish. The flats are crisp andsmooth with norounded edges but by removing thevarnish on the3rd coat you end up with a satin likefinish afterpolishing. I personally like the satinlook buthave some questions. What is a personreallygaining by applying that 3rd coat ofvarnish if itis going to be basically sanded off?In fact on apractice blank I polished a sectionwithoutapplying varnish and it looks andfeels exactlythe same as a blank that has 3 coatsof varnishand one coat of polish. I am sure thatthe polishalone will not fill in the pores orprovide thenecessary protection against water etcbut I wassurprised that looks wise there was nodifference. ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com from bhoy@inmind.com Wed Dec 22 09:30:25 1999 Wed, 22 Dec 1999 10:48:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Bluing supply source? Golden Witch carries Dave LeClair's bluing agent. But Russ Goodingrecently posted a warning on his site that says he can't send it out to anyone because the USPS and the commercialcarriers won't take it. Must contain some pretty caustic stuff. I believe that LeClair recreated a traditional formula for bluing.... Since it isn't available (Unless you want to drive to Pennsylvania) does anybody know the formula and instructions for use? Bill Hoy At 09:08 AM 12/22/1999 , nobler wrote:I think one on the list named LeClaire(sp.) has a solution that does this. GMA----- Original Message -----From: Jim Utzerath Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 6:30 AMSubject: Bluing supply source? I'd like to blue NS ferrules to match the purple-black of TiCarbide guides. Where can I buy the right stuff? I looked at the Birchwood Casey web site, and they've got about four different brass oxidizers none of which are called "brass black" that has been oft mentioned in these forums. Their site does not mention a retail source either. I haven't tried the photo fixer formula, but that's reputed to give a brown (sulfide?) coat. Bill Hoy from caneman@clnk.com Wed Dec 22 09:37:17 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Wed, 22 Dec 1999 09:35:16 -0600 Subject: Re: Another rod finish question Well, Not me... Fella's, I like em flashy. I polish my ferrules out mirrorbright and my rods the same way. Still catch fish, tho, and plenty of them.Maybe I'd catch a few more if I toned things down a little, but if I can goout and have a 30 or 40 fish day like they are, then I guess I'll just keepon flashing! *S* I may be wrong, and I know there are many (probablymost)that will disagree with me, but the water surface is shiny and reflectsbright flashes of sunlight down to the fish, so I never figured my fly rodwas going to add that much to it. Besides, if my 6'4" 250pound clumsy a$$doesn't spook the fish away, a bright ferrule and a shiny rod probablywon'teither. Just my opinion. Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Another rod finish question Ralph,I've ben waiting to see if anyone else had your comment. Do those whobluetheir ferrules to avoid reflections then polish their cane to a mirrorfinish or are they separate sub-groups?Art At 04:58 PM 12/21/1999 -0700, Ralph W Moon wrote:Frankly, I would be proud to have a nice satin finish; High Gloss looksgood, but like most flies it is to catch the fisherman. Most fish areturned off.Ralph *Some people can tell what time it is by looking at the sun,but I never have been able to make out the numbers.* from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Dec 22 09:51:00 1999 0000 1999 07:50:57 PST Subject: Re: Another rod finish question point noted --- Bob Nunley wrote:Well, Not me... Fella's, I like em flashy. I polishmy ferrules out mirrorbright and my rods the same way. Still catch fish,tho, and plenty of them.Maybe I'd catch a few more if I toned things down alittle, but if I can goout and have a 30 or 40 fish day like they are, thenI guess I'll just keepon flashing! *S* I may be wrong, and I know thereare many (probably most)that will disagree with me, but the water surface isshiny and reflectsbright flashes of sunlight down to the fish, so Inever figured my fly rodwas going to add that much to it. Besides, if my6'4" 250pound clumsy a$$doesn't spook the fish away, a bright ferrule and ashiny rod probably won'teither. Just my opinion. Bob -----Original Message-----From: Art Port Cc: caneman@clnk.com ;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 6:46 PMSubject: Re: Another rod finish question Ralph,I've ben waiting to see if anyone else had yourcomment. Do those who bluetheir ferrules to avoid reflections then polishtheir cane to a mirrorfinish or are they separate sub-groups?Art At 04:58 PM 12/21/1999 -0700, Ralph W Moon wrote:Frankly, I would be proud to have a nice satinfinish; High Gloss looksgood, but like most flies it is to catch thefisherman. Most fish areturned off.Ralph *Some people can tell what time it is by lookingat the sun,but I never have been able to make out thenumbers.* ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Dec 22 10:23:20 1999 "caneman@clnk.com" Subject: Re: Another rod finish question Bob I have to agree the "flash of the ferrule" is nothing but a myth. Having spent a good amount of time on some heavily fished springcreeks this summer I did not suffer from the "flash". If you follow this train ofthought - everyoneshouldspray paint their rods and reels matt black and even throw in some greenand brown for camouflage effect and then dress up like a mutant ninja fisherman typeand crawlto the stream on their bellies. I have found it is move the movement of the fisherman that spooks fish - heavy footsteps and such that is the realculprit. to them. Therefore a flash behind them is the least of your concerns. Ihave yetto catch a trout (or any fish to that matter) with rear view mirrors. I havefound it is the movement of the clumbsy fisherman that spooks fish - heavyfootsteps, the splash of the line from a bad cast, and such that is the real culprit.Speakingof lines - what about these brightly colored lines (Pinks, Yellows, White,and suchso the fisherman can easily see - cannot the fish also see this brightlycolored stringwhizzing through the air also? Lets not forget the flash from sunglassesand all thosemetal trinkets hanging from the vest - they also make noise. But the end, the "look" of the rod is a personal thing - beauty is in the eye of the beholder. So let everyone develop their look and in the endfinally figureout it is just a fishing pole, go fishing, and catch fish. In the meanwhile Iwill beout there with my shinny blonde rods with bright chrome guides, shinny NSferrules,straw colored silk line with shinny varnish on it, and shinny chrome andblack classic Ballan Reel with all kinds of bright things hanging off my vestcatching fish despite the odds - just think of what I could do if I painted everythingmatt black!. Relax and go fishing. Chris On Wed, 22 Dec 1999 09:35:03 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote: Well, Not me... Fella's, I like em flashy. I polish my ferrules out mirrorbright and my rods the same way. Still catch fish, tho, and plenty ofthem.Maybe I'd catch a few more if I toned things down a little, but if I can goout and have a 30 or 40 fish day like they are, then I guess I'll just keepon flashing! *S* I may be wrong, and I know there are many (probablymost)that will disagree with me, but the water surface is shiny and reflectsbright flashes of sunlight down to the fish, so I never figured my fly rodwas going to add that much to it. Besides, if my 6'4" 250pound clumsya$$doesn't spook the fish away, a bright ferrule and a shiny rod probablywon'teither. Just my opinion. Bob -----Original Message-----From: Art Port Cc: caneman@clnk.com ;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 6:46 PMSubject: Re: Another rod finish question Ralph,I've ben waiting to see if anyone else had your comment. Do those whobluetheir ferrules to avoid reflections then polish their cane to a mirrorfinish or are they separate sub-groups?Art At 04:58 PM 12/21/1999 -0700, Ralph W Moon wrote:Frankly, I would be proud to have a nice satin finish; High Gloss looksgood, but like most flies it is to catch the fisherman. Most fish areturned off.Ralph *Some people can tell what time it is by looking at the sun,but I never have been able to make out the numbers.* from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Dec 22 10:26:23 1999 Wed, 22 Dec 1999 08:26:16 -0800 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Bluing supply source? Bill,You might try Dave LeClair himself, at LECLAIR123@aol.com I know a coupla years ago Dave shipped me some. It's great stuff, butyou're right, Don't spill it. Harry Bill Hoy wrote: Golden Witch carries Dave LeClair's bluing agent. But Russ Goodingrecentlyposted a warning on his site that says he can't send it out to anyonebecause the USPS and the commercialcarriers won't take it. Must containsome pretty caustic stuff. I believe that LeClair recreated a traditionalformula for bluing.... Since it isn't available (Unless you want to driveto Pennsylvania) does anybody know the formula and instructions foruse? Bill Hoy At 09:08 AM 12/22/1999 , nobler wrote:I think one on the list named LeClaire(sp.) has a solution that does this. GMA----- Original Message -----From: Jim Utzerath Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 6:30 AMSubject: Bluing supply source? I'd like to blue NS ferrules to match the purple-black of TiCarbideguides. Where can I buy the right stuff? I looked at the BirchwoodCasey web site, and they've got about four different brass oxidizersnoneof which are called "brass black" that has been oft mentioned in theseforums. Their site does not mention a retail source either. I haven't tried the photo fixer formula, but that's reputed to give abrown (sulfide?) coat. Bill Hoy from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Dec 22 10:30:45 1999 Wed, 22 Dec 1999 08:30:35 -0800 Subject: Re: Another rod finish question Barry,I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the consensus opinion on mostofthe old WWII era Japanese rods is that they aren't worth much. It willmake adecent project for learning restoration skills, but probably will not beworthmuch even after refinishing. A good restoration job will cost a minimumof$150, and the rod will not be worth that when it is done.Now for the good news. The boxes are nice -- you can use that box foroneof your other rods. And a few guys have mentioned higher quality Japaneserodsthat are decent, so there is a slight chance that you got lucky. Harry Barry Blessing wrote: Howdy! I acquired this evening an "antique" cane fly rod at an antique mall hereinDes Moines, Iowa. Perhaps someone can help determine worth and how togetit restored to a more beautiful condition. The rod came in a box made of wood not unlike that used for cigar boxes,butwith a red plastic handle. The rod is 8' and breaks down into threesections. Cork handle. Cane in perfect condition. Guides, cork, andespecially the metal parts of the rod are in poor condition. The onlymarkings on the rod are a partially worn-off sticker just above the corkthat features a red crown on top, a golden griffin [lion] in the middle,golden olive branches around the griffin, and a little white banner thatsays Tokyo, Japan on it just below the griffin. There are no othermarkingson the rod that I can find. First of all...who made this rod? Second....who would be best able to restore it to a better condition? E-mail at work is barry.blessing@nmb.norwest.com if any of you wouldlike toconverse during the day about this rod. I would definitely appreciate anyhelp you could offer. Barry Blessing from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Dec 22 10:35:45 1999 0000 1999 08:35:41 PST Subject: Re: Another rod finish question does anyone no how to remove camo from a flyrod? timothy --- Chris Bogart wrote:Bob I have to agree the "flash of the ferrule" isnothing but a myth. Having spent a good amount of time on some heavilyfished spring creeks this summer I did not suffer from the "flash". If youfollow this train of thought - everyone shouldspray paint their rods and reels matt black and eventhrow in some green and brown for camouflage effect and then dress up like a mutantninja fisherman type and crawlto the stream on their bellies. I have found it ismove the movement of the fisherman that spooks fish - heavy footsteps andsuch that is the real culprit. we fish upstreamto them. Therefore a flash behind them is the leastof your concerns. I have yetto catch a trout (or any fish to that matter) withrear view mirrors. I have found it is the movement of the clumbsy fisherman that spooksfish - heavy footsteps, the splash of the line from a bad cast, and suchthat is the real culprit. Speakingof lines - what about these brightly colored lines(Pinks, Yellows, White, and suchso the fisherman can easily see - cannot the fishalso see this brightly colored stringwhizzing through the air also? Lets not forget theflash from sunglasses and all thosemetal trinkets hanging from the vest - they alsomake noise. But the end, the "look" of the rod is a personalthing - beauty is in the eye of the beholder. So let everyone develop theirlook and in the end finally figureout it is just a fishing pole, go fishing, and catchfish. In the meanwhile I will beout there with my shinny blonde rods with brightchrome guides, shinny NS ferrules,straw colored silk line with shinny varnish on it,and shinny chrome and black classic Ballan Reel with all kinds of bright thingshanging off my vest catching fish despite the odds - just think of what I could do ifI painted everything matt black!. Relax and go fishing. Chris On Wed, 22 Dec 1999 09:35:03 -0600, Bob Nunleywrote: Well, Not me... Fella's, I like em flashy. Ipolish my ferrules out mirrorbright and my rods the same way. Still catch fish,tho, and plenty of them.Maybe I'd catch a few more if I toned things down alittle, but if I can goout and have a 30 or 40 fish day like they are,then I guess I'll just keepon flashing! *S* I may be wrong, and I know thereare many (probably most)that will disagree with me, but the water surfaceis shiny and reflectsbright flashes of sunlight down to the fish, so Inever figured my fly rodwas going to add that much to it. Besides, if my6'4" 250pound clumsy a$$doesn't spook the fish away, a bright ferrule and ashiny rod probably won'teither. Just my opinion. Bob -----Original Message-----From: Art Port Grhghlndr@aol.com Cc: caneman@clnk.com ;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 6:46 PMSubject: Re: Another rod finish question Ralph,I've ben waiting to see if anyone else had yourcomment. Do those who bluetheir ferrules to avoid reflections then polishtheir cane to a mirrorfinish or are they separate sub-groups?Art At 04:58 PM 12/21/1999 -0700, Ralph W Moon wrote:Frankly, I would be proud to have a nice satinfinish; High Gloss looksgood, but like most flies it is to catch thefisherman. Most fish areturned off.Ralph *Some people can tell what time it is by lookingat the sun,but I never have been able to make out thenumbers.* ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Dec 22 10:38:31 1999 Thu, 23 Dec 1999 00:38:12 +0800 Subject: Re: Another rod finish question "caneman@clnk.com" I agree, the fish are almost always facing upstream and seem obliviousforthe most part of your existence unless you blow the cast and drop the lineright over them in which case it's all over for that fish regardless of thecoulor or flashiness of rod or ferrule.Re. line colour, apart from the fact you try not to let the trout see theline at all I've always thought a light coloured line would be bestcamouflage considering the trout is looking up into the sky which isusually brighter than the surrounding area. Tony the splash of the line from a bad cast, and such that is the real culprit.Speakingof lines - what about these brightly colored lines (Pinks, Yellows, White,and suchso the fisherman can easily see - cannot the fish also see this brightlycolored stringwhizzing through the air also? Lets not forget the flash from sunglassesand all thosemetal trinkets hanging from the vest - they also make noise. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Dec 22 10:39:21 1999 Thu, 23 Dec 1999 00:38:56 +0800 Subject: Re: Bluing supply source? "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Or breath it! Tony At 10:25 AM 12/22/99 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote:Bill,You might try Dave LeClair himself, at LECLAIR123@aol.com I know a coupla years ago Dave shipped me some. It's great stuff,butyou're right, Don't spill it. Harry Bill Hoy wrote: Golden Witch carries Dave LeClair's bluing agent. But Russ Goodingrecentlyposted a warning on his site that says he can't send it out to anyonebecause the USPS and the commercialcarriers won't take it. Mustcontainsome pretty caustic stuff. I believe that LeClair recreated a traditionalformula for bluing.... Since it isn't available (Unless you want to driveto Pennsylvania) does anybody know the formula and instructions foruse? Bill Hoy At 09:08 AM 12/22/1999 , nobler wrote:I think one on the list named LeClaire(sp.) has a solution that does this. GMA----- Original Message -----From: Jim Utzerath rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSent: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 6:30 AMSubject: Bluing supply source? I'd like to blue NS ferrules to match the purple-black of TiCarbideguides. Where can I buy the right stuff? I looked at the BirchwoodCasey web site, and they've got about four different brass oxidizersnoneof which are called "brass black" that has been oft mentioned in theseforums. Their site does not mention a retail source either. I haven't tried the photo fixer formula, but that's reputed to give abrown (sulfide?) coat. Bill Hoy /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from edriddle@mindspring.com Wed Dec 22 10:51:03 1999Received: from Subject: Re: Bluing supply source? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003D_01BF4C72.71CE6E40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BF4C72.71CE6E40 Jim:I bought Brass Black from Brownells Inc., (515) 623-5401, stock =#167-005-200.3 oz. bottle costs $6.70. Mfg'd by Birchwood Casey. Shipped by =UPS-ground only.Ed---- -Original Message-----From: Jim Utzerath Date: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 7:34 AMSubject: Bluing supply source? I'd like to blue NS ferrules to match the purple-black of TiCarbide =guides. Where can I buy the right stuff? I looked at the Birchwood =Casey web site, and they've got about four different brass oxidizers =none of which are called "brass black" that has been oft mentioned in =these forums. Their site does not mention a retail source either. I haven't tried the photo fixer formula, but that's reputed to give = ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BF4C72.71CE6E40 Jim:I boughtBrass = 200. Ed -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Wednesday, December 22, 1999 7:34 AMSubject: Bluing= source?I'd like to blue NS ferrules to = does not mention a retail source either. I haven't tried the photo fixer = ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BF4C72.71CE6E40-- from harry37@epix.net Wed Dec 22 11:51:48 1999 MAA09296 Subject: Re: Bluing supply source? I've used Birchwood Casey cold blue with success on NS, but with a fewcautions:Don't dip and hold--wet a cotton ball or a rag thoroughly and rotateuntil you get the finish you're looking for. If you dunk, the bluingsolution will bubble on the surface, and leave unblued spots. If thathappens, just dry the part off and buff everything off with 0000 steelwool and start over--same goes if the finish is uneven.. You can hit itwith a second application if you want to darken it. Make sure the partis clean, or you'll get spotting. When you're done, seal the part withbrass sealer-(I got mine at a Lowe's) for 2 or 3 coats. Every ferrule I've done so far is wearing fine. I spent a lot of time looking for the exotics until John Zimny showed meferrules he had done this way at a show, and that was all the proof Ineeded. Greg from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Wed Dec 22 13:02:29 1999 "Kling, Barry W.",rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Golden Witch, WOW Wow! You don't have to buy everything you see. Wow! Some of the items are expensive, some are a good deal, others areaboutthe same as elsewhere, but if you value good information and good servicethat makes it a good deal even when the price is the same. Wow! Not so long ago I was even more of a rookie than I am now, and asinglesource for lots of different items helps a person get started. Wow! I know it's hard to believe, but there are people around who willspenda lot of money to save themselves the trouble of making their own things.Some of these people will even spend over a thousand dollars on a bamboorod! Anyone willing to take this sort of money shouldn't complain aboutothers who target the same. Wow, isn't it irritating when other people do something well? -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Golden Witch, WOW Wow ! twice as much money Wow! a dip tank with no motor for a merethree hundred something dollars. Wow !! a forty dollar reel seat for seventy-five dollars Jeez I should get a better job ! from rsgould@cmc.net Wed Dec 22 13:02:44 1999 Subject: Re: Another rod finish question I'm with Bob and Chris on this one. And what's more in my next life as ahuge Kamloops trout I'm going to remember that the good guys fish withbamboo, shiny rods and flashy ferrules.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Another rod finish question Well, Not me... Fella's, I like em flashy. I polish my ferrules outmirrorbright and my rods the same way. Still catch fish, tho, and plenty ofthem.Maybe I'd catch a few more if I toned things down a little, but if I cangoout and have a 30 or 40 fish day like they are, then I guess I'll justkeepon flashing! *S* I may be wrong, and I know there are many (probablymost)that will disagree with me, but the water surface is shiny and reflectsbright flashes of sunlight down to the fish, so I never figured my fly rodwas going to add that much to it. Besides, if my 6'4" 250pound clumsya$$doesn't spook the fish away, a bright ferrule and a shiny rod probablywon'teither. Just my opinion. Bob -----Original Message-----From: Art Port Cc: caneman@clnk.com ;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 6:46 PMSubject: Re: Another rod finish question Ralph,I've ben waiting to see if anyone else had your comment. Do those whobluetheir ferrules to avoid reflections then polish their cane to a mirrorfinish or are they separate sub-groups?Art At 04:58 PM 12/21/1999 -0700, Ralph W Moon wrote:Frankly, I would be proud to have a nice satin finish; High Gloss looksgood, but like most flies it is to catch the fisherman. Most fish areturned off.Ralph *Some people can tell what time it is by looking at the sun,but I never have been able to make out the numbers.* from HARMS1@prodigy.net Wed Dec 22 19:09:04 1999 Wed, 22 Dec 1999 20:08:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Another rod finish question boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006A_01BF4CB7.A4B64CC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_006A_01BF4CB7.A4B64CC0 Ralph,You'll have no trouble at all polishing a polyurethane finish. I too =have heard it can't be done, and, although I don't know what the basis = finish if that is your desire. As a hint, I might suggest that you get =one of the three-step polishing kits from George Maurer at Sweetwater =Rods (no interest--yadda, yadda). I have no idea what the stuff is, but =I've been using it for more than a year now, and the results are always =flawless. Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 8:37 PMSubject: Re: Another rod finish question Having recently had the opportunity to check into R10, I found that itis a polyurethane varnish, as opposed to a spar varnish. Now, I'm anovice/rookie here, but what I've read so far suggests that sparvarnishes can be polished, but that supposedly, polyurethanes can not.Perhaps I'm reading too much into the "can't polish a polyurethane",since it would seem to me that most anything, even plastics, could bepolished if you approached the task correctly, but perhaps the problemis that the materials you are using to do a polyurethane are moreproperly intended to work with spar varnishes? Folks with more experience than me (that's just about *all* of them!)would have to confirm or correct, since as I said, this is only based =onwhat I've read as I'm getting ready to do some finishing. FWIW regards and season's greetings to everyone - mac Landeens wrote: I use Pratt and Lamber R10 High Gloss varnish and have used two =typesof polish with the same result: 1) Behlen Deluxing Compound fromWoodcraft and 2) Mequiar's Cleaner Wax. I don't know if you wouldclassify the final result as a true satin but it is definitely not ahigh gloss. It still looks good but I must be doing somethingdifferent to not achieve that high gloss look. Is there a chance I =maybe sanding too much on the final coat?----- Original Message --- -- From: Bob Nunley Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 11:55 AMSubject: Re: Another rod finish questionThe satin finish puzzles me. My rods polish out to a highgloss. May be the difference in the varnish or polish weare using. My rods usually go more than 3 coats, but I dosand a lot of each coat off, and many think, unnecessarily,but the final result is a nice level high gloss finish, nota satin one. ????? bob -----Original Message-----From: Landeens Date: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 10:18 AMSubject: Another rod finish questionI followed the recent discussion of how variousrodmakers finish their rods and tried one of themethods on my last two rods. I sanded the firstcoat of varnish with mineral spirits and 400 gritthe second coat with 600 grit and the third coatwith 1200 grit and then applied a rubbing compoundor polish. The flats are crisp and smooth with norounded edges but by removing the varnish on the3rd coat you end up with a satin like finish afterpolishing. I personally like the satin look buthave some questions. What is a person reallygaining by applying that 3rd coat of varnish if itis going to be basically sanded off? In fact on apractice blank I polished a section withoutapplying varnish and it looks and feels exactlythe same as a blank that has 3 coats of varnishand one coat of polish. I am sure that the polishalone will not fill in the pores or provide thenecessary protection against water etc but I wassurprised that looks wise there was no difference. ------=_NextPart_000_006A_01BF4CB7.A4B64CC0 Ralph,You'll have no = polishing kits from George Maurer at Sweetwater Rods (no = flawless. ----- Original Message ----- Ralph= Cc: caneman@clnk.com ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Tuesday, December 21, = PMSubject: Re: Another rod finish = questionHaving recently had the opportunity to check into R10, = that itis a polyurethane varnish, as opposed to a spar = sparvarnishes can be polished, but that supposedly, polyurethanes = polyurethane",since it would seem to me that most anything, even = could bepolished if you approached the task correctly, but perhaps = problemis that the materials you are using to do a polyurethane = moreproperly intended to work with spar varnishes?Folks = experience than me (that's just about *all* of them!)would have to = or correct, since as I said, this is only based onwhat I've read = getting ready to do some finishing.FWIWregards and = greetings to everyone -macLandeens Pratt and Lamber R10 High Gloss varnish and have used two = polish with the same result: 1) Behlen Deluxing Compound Woodcraft and 2) Mequiar's Cleaner Wax. I don't know if you = classify the final result as a true satin but it is definitely not = different to not achieve that high gloss look. Is there a chance I = = = nice level high gloss finish, = = =Message----- <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ------=_NextPart_000_006A_01BF4CB7.A4B64CC0-- from RMargiotta@aol.com Wed Dec 22 20:33:25 1999 Subject: Re: Another rod finish question In my experience with polishing, the degree of gloss is dependent on the fineness of the last compound that is used. I use three grades of Meguiar's automotive compounds in the following sequence: #2 Fine cut cleaner, #9 swirl remover, #7 Show car glaze. This is based on recommendations from the Stewart McDonald catalog for finishing guitars. The result is a high gloss. The only problem is that if you polish with these after the wraps are on,the wraps themselves get "frosty" and require another coat of varnish. (The shaft does not have this problem.) I'm not sure why this is, but I've cleaned the wraps with naphtha, and still get it.. In the future I may tape off the guides, as I dip after the guides are on. I suspect it may be the most coarse compound (#2) causing the problem. Meguiars works equallywell on spar as well as Minwax spar urethane (the only ones I've used). Others have reported good results using 3M's automotive compounds. There aretwo grades of these: a rubbing compound and a polishing compound. --Rich from grandriverangler@sprint.ca Wed Dec 22 20:48:42 1999 VAA25387; Subject: Re: Another rod finish question boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002C_01BF4CC5.FB25F3E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BF4CC5.FB25F3E0 I have been following the discussion and would have to concur that I =have had the same problem with my spar varnish. I use the Behr Gloss =Spar from Home Depot ( no interest etc.) and have noticed that it does =not polish well at all, leaving me with a semi gloss finish, but not a =very glossy finish. I rub with a mixture of rottenstone and water. I have however noticed that the gloss appears to increase with the =longer that I wait to final polish the rod. This is only my 5th rod and =unfortunately not something that I have given much thought to until this =discussion. I wonder if it may be the varnish? Mark Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 11:03 PMSubject: Re: Another rod finish question Ralph,You'll have no trouble at all polishing a polyurethane finish. I too =have heard it can't be done, and, although I don't know what the basis = finish if that is your desire. As a hint, I might suggest that you get =one of the three-step polishing kits from George Maurer at Sweetwater =Rods (no interest--yadda, yadda). I have no idea what the stuff is, but =I've been using it for more than a year now, and the results are always =flawless. Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 8:37 PMSubject: Re: Another rod finish question Having recently had the opportunity to check into R10, I found that =itis a polyurethane varnish, as opposed to a spar varnish. Now, I'm anovice/rookie here, but what I've read so far suggests that sparvarnishes can be polished, but that supposedly, polyurethanes can =not.Perhaps I'm reading too much into the "can't polish a polyurethane",since it would seem to me that most anything, even plastics, could =bepolished if you approached the task correctly, but perhaps the =problemis that the materials you are using to do a polyurethane are moreproperly intended to work with spar varnishes? Folks with more experience than me (that's just about *all* of =them!)would have to confirm or correct, since as I said, this is only =based onwhat I've read as I'm getting ready to do some finishing. FWIW regards and season's greetings to everyone - mac Landeens wrote: I use Pratt and Lamber R10 High Gloss varnish and have used two =typesof polish with the same result: 1) Behlen Deluxing Compound fromWoodcraft and 2) Mequiar's Cleaner Wax. I don't know if you wouldclassify the final result as a true satin but it is definitely not =ahigh gloss. It still looks good but I must be doing somethingdifferent to not achieve that high gloss look. Is there a chance I =maybe sanding too much on the final coat?----- Original Message --- -- From: Bob Nunley Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 11:55 AMSubject: Re: Another rod finish questionThe satin finish puzzles me. My rods polish out to a highgloss. May be the difference in the varnish or polish weare using. My rods usually go more than 3 coats, but I dosand a lot of each coat off, and many think, unnecessarily,but the final result is a nice level high gloss finish, nota satin one. ????? bob -----Original Message-----From: Landeens Date: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 10:18 AMSubject: Another rod finish questionI followed the recent discussion of how variousrodmakers finish their rods and tried one of themethods on my last two rods. I sanded the firstcoat of varnish with mineral spirits and 400 gritthe second coat with 600 grit and the third coatwith 1200 grit and then applied a rubbing compoundor polish. The flats are crisp and smooth with norounded edges but by removing the varnish on the3rd coat you end up with a satin like finish afterpolishing. I personally like the satin look buthave some questions. What is a person reallygaining by applying that 3rd coat of varnish if itis going to be basically sanded off? In fact on apractice blank I polished a section withoutapplying varnish and it looks and feels exactlythe same as a blank that has 3 coats of varnishand one coat of polish. I am sure that the polishalone will not fill in the pores or provide thenecessary protection against water etc but I wassurprised that looks wise there was no difference. ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BF4CC5.FB25F3E0 I have been following the discussion and would have= Gloss Spar from Home Depot ( no interest etc.) and have noticed that it = polish well at all, leaving me with a semi gloss finish, but not a very = water. I have however noticed that the gloss appears to = and unfortunately not something that I have given much thought to until = discussion. I wonder if it may be the varnish? Mark ----- Original Message ----- Original Message ----- HARMS Cc: caneman@clnk.com ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Wednesday, December 22, = PMSubject: Re: Another rod finish = question Ralph,You'll have no = polishing kits from George Maurer at Sweetwater Rods (no = flawless. ----- Original Message ----- Ralph= Cc: caneman@clnk.com ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Tuesday, December 21, = PMSubject: Re: Another rod = questionHaving recently had the opportunity to check into = suggests that sparvarnishes can be polished, but that = polyurethanes can not.Perhaps I'm reading too much into the = polish a polyurethane",since it would seem to me that most = even plastics, could bepolished if you approached the task = but perhaps the problemis that the materials you are using to do = varnishes?Folks with more experience than me (that's just = *all* of them!)would have to confirm or correct, since as I = finishing.FWIWregards and season's greetings to = difference in the varnish or polish = = = =Message----- <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BF4CC5.FB25F3E0-- from CAIrvinerods@aol.com Wed Dec 22 21:19:50 1999 Subject: Finish I think that the problem as I understand it is that both varnish and poly polish just great but when a rod comes back with a hook ding or otherlittle blemish you are up the creek with a poly finish but with varnish you are able to move it around enough to cover it up. Zimny can correct me if I am off base. from Davidhray1@aol.com Wed Dec 22 21:26:33 1999 Subject: Sanding Sealer While we are on the subject of rod finishing. What is the result if one uses a sanding sealer for the first two or three coats on the rod and then a coat or two of spar varnish? Are there bonding or separation problems? David H. Ray from darrell@rockclimbing.org Wed Dec 22 21:33:35 1999 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Subject: RE: Finish Hola Chuck... Hey, did you see the Bishop Pics??? www.bamboorods.homepage.com Thanks again for hosting the gathering, merry xmas! Darrell -----Original Message----- CAIrvinerods@aol.com Subject: Finish I think that the problem as I understand it is that both varnish and polypolish just great but when a rod comes back with a hook ding or otherlittleblemish you are up the creek with a poly finish but with varnish you areable to move it around enough to cover it up. Zimny can correct me if I amoff base. from martinjensen@home.com Wed Dec 22 23:06:02 1999 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP ;Wed, 22 Dec 1999 21:03:51 -0800 "Walter AAlberg" ,"Wally Berning" , "Todd","Timothy Lia" , "Thor Jensen","Thomas Pool" ,"Steven Hochberg" ,"Steven E. Anderson" ,"Stephen Dong" ,"Scott Lewis" , "Scott Jeffcoat" ,"Russ Gooding" ,"Rodmakers" ,"Rosemary Jensen" ,"Richard Shen" ,"Richard Mortensen" ,"Ray Anders (E- mail)" ,"Radek Migula" ,"Radek Migula" ,"Radek Hotmail" ,Subject: new e-mail address for Martin Jensen My new return address is martinjensen@home.com If you have the option to "add sender to address book" then use it. If youdon't know me just delete this message. Your name was in my address bookandI am changing ISP's, so I am sending to all. PS: My old address of mrj@aa.net will be discontinued shortly. Martin Jensen from jczimny@dol.net Wed Dec 22 23:31:43 1999 Subject: Re: Finish One can never entirely eliminate a chip. But, you can get very close. Thetrickis to "fill in" with a tiny amount of finish, wait two weeks, then "level"therepair with polishing compounds until you've acheive a matching gloss.After awhile, you won't be able to tell where the repair was made.The harder the finish, the more brilliant the polish that can be achievedwithcompounds. Spars, by their definition tend to be soft. So, they don't comeup asbrightly as a hard "tabletop" varnish. But, if you give them time to cure,thecan be polished to a high lustre and depth.John Z CAIrvinerods@aol.com wrote: I think that the problem as I understand it is that both varnish and polypolish just great but when a rod comes back with a hook ding or otherlittleblemish you are up the creek with a poly finish but with varnish you areable to move it around enough to cover it up. Zimny can correct me if Iamoff base. from jczimny@dol.net Wed Dec 22 23:31:58 1999 Subject: Re: Sanding Sealer Sanding sealer is for laquers. If you want to you use several coats ofthinnedvarnish that's OK.Probably no separation even with well sanded sanding sealer or ,even a"spitcoat" of shellac. But make sure that it's cured and sanded. Withconventionalvarnish, the bond is mostly mechanical not chemical. John Z. Davidhray1@aol.com wrote: While we are on the subject of rod finishing. What is the result if oneusesa sanding sealer for the first two or three coats on the rod and then acoator two of spar varnish? Are there bonding or separation problems? David H. Ray from lars32@gateway.net Wed Dec 22 23:59:18 1999 Subject: Re: Bluing supply source? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0035_01BF4CD8.C27BBF80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01BF4CD8.C27BBF80 I have noticed that not all gunshops have brass black. Keep trying =you'll findit!Dave-----Original Message-----From: Jim Utzerath Date: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 4:35 AMSubject: Bluing supply source? I'd like to blue NS ferrules to match the purple-black of TiCarbide =guides. Where can I buy the right stuff? I looked at the Birchwood =Casey web site, and they've got about four different brass oxidizers =none of which are called "brass black" that has been oft mentioned in =these forums. Their site does not mention a retail source either. I haven't tried the photo fixer formula, but that's reputed to give = ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01BF4CD8.C27BBF80 I have noticed that not allgunshops = black. Keep trying you'll findit! -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Wednesday, December 22, 1999 4:35 AMSubject: Bluing= source?I'd like to blue NS ferrules to = does not mention a retail source either. I haven't tried the photo fixer = ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01BF4CD8.C27BBF80-- from Jon.Beckton@asml.nl Thu Dec 23 01:13:59 1999 (MET) (MET) Subject: [Fwd: Another rod finish question] Tony Young wrote: Re. line colour, apart from the fact you try not to let the trout see theline at all I've always thought a light coloured line would be bestcamouflage considering the trout is looking up into the sky which isusually brighter than the surrounding area. Having snorkelled while a buddy was fly fishing (I was hoping to see howthe fly behaved, amongst other things) all lines look black from belowagainst a bright sky. I read somewhere that fish can't see the colourblue so I wonder why you don't see blue lines. Have a great holiday Jon Beckton from rvenneri@ulster.net Thu Dec 23 05:33:12 1999 Subject: test again This is just another test to see if I have been hooked up again. Thanksto all who let me know I was off list. Best RegardsBob VVenneri's21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477914 246 5882http://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index.html from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Dec 23 07:50:15 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 23 Dec 1999 07:41:38 -0600 Subject: Re: Another rod finish question] boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01BF4D1A.6BA7A2E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BF4D1A.6BA7A2E0 As far as what the fish see, why do we use fine tippet leaders ? I once =caught 22 little trout, in 22 casts, using a royal coachman dry, on a =7'-6" leader, ahead of a day glow red 5 wt. line ! So often the fish are =just not active, GMA Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 1:13 AMSubject: [Fwd: Another rod finish question] Tony Young wrote: Re. line colour, apart from the fact you try not to let the trout =see theline at all I've always thought a light coloured line would be bestcamouflage considering the trout is looking up into the sky which isusually brighter than the surrounding area. Having snorkelled while a buddy was fly fishing (I was hoping to see =howthe fly behaved, amongst other things) all lines look black from belowagainst a bright sky. I read somewhere that fish can't see the colourblue so I wonder why you don't see blue lines. Have a great holiday Jon Beckton ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BF4D1A.6BA7A2E0 As far as what the fish see, why do we use= leaders ? I once caught 22 little trout, in 22 casts, using a royal = dry, on a 7'-6" leader, ahead of a day glow red 5 wt. line ! So often = are just not active, GMA ----- Original Message ----- Jon = Sent: Thursday, December 23, = AMSubject: [Fwd: Another rod = question] considering the trout is looking up into the sky which = usually brighter than the surrounding area.Having snorkelled = buddy was fly fishing (I was hoping to see howthe fly behaved, = other things) all lines look black from belowagainst a bright sky. = somewhere that fish can't see the colourblue so I wonder why you = Beckton ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BF4D1A.6BA7A2E0-- from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Thu Dec 23 08:12:40 1999 Thu, 23 Dec 1999 09:12:36 -0500 Rodmakers Subject: RE: was - Another rod finish question; now - the wily trout The first fish I ever caught on a fly was a little smallmouth bass thatroseout of the depths of the Winooski river to grab a bead head woollybugger from amidst the coils of bright yellow 6 weight line that I haddepositedabout six inches from the side of my canoe, which was rocking mildly atthetime from my exertions in trying to retrieve said mess without making itworse. Even accounting for the indiscriminate aggressiveness of bass,thiswas surprising, to put it mildly. Ever since I have taken with a grain ofsalt the injunctions we so often hear to approach the water like a catburglar and use at least 12 feet of invisible, whisper thin tippet. Maybe Icould finesse a few more trout out of the water if I were more stealthy.But then I might not find myself so often standing in midstream, overcomeinmidcast by the beauty of the passing scene, and letting my fly fallwhereverand however it may. I'll trade those moments for any number of landedtrout. -----Original Message-----From: nobler [SMTP:nobler@satx.rr.com]Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 8:51 AM Subject: Re: Another rod finish question] As far as what the fish see, why do we use fine tippet leaders ? I oncecaught 22 little trout, in 22 casts, using a royal coachman dry, on a7'-6" leader, ahead of a day glow red 5 wt. line ! So often the fish arejust not active, GMA ----- Original Message ----- From: Jon Beckton Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 1:13 AMSubject: [Fwd: Another rod finish question] Tony Young wrote: Re. line colour, apart from the fact you try not to let the troutsee theline at all I've always thought a light coloured line would bebestcamouflage considering the trout is looking up into the sky whichisusually brighter than the surrounding area. Having snorkelled while a buddy was fly fishing (I was hoping to seehowthe fly behaved, amongst other things) all lines look black frombelowagainst a bright sky. I read somewhere that fish can't see thecolourblue so I wonder why you don't see blue lines. Have a great holiday Jon Beckton from Jon.Beckton@asml.nl Thu Dec 23 08:17:10 1999 Thu, 23 Dec 1999 15:17:07 +0100 (MET) Thu, 23 Dec 1999 15:17:01 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: Another rod finish question] As far as what the fish see, why do we use fine tippet leaders ? Ionce caught 22 little trout, in 22 casts, using a royal coachmandry, on a 7'-6" leader, ahead of a day glow red 5 wt. line ! So oftenthe fish are just not active, GMA "The New Compleat Angler", a book that I recommend to all of you, has asection on the make-up of a fishes eye. They filter out the bluewavelengths but see things up to five times larger than we do (I think,I'm quoting from memory here) So, a 20 thou tippet looks a tenth of aninch wide to them (if my math's correct!) and a fly line must look likea ship's mooring rope! I guess you're right then, the fish are either active or not. At least,that's what I tell myself on those all-too-frequent blank days! ;^))> Jon Beckton from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Dec 23 08:30:05 1999 0000 1999 06:30:02 PST Subject: RE: was - Another rod finish question; now - the wily trout if it wasn't for a few dumb fish alot of us would havegiven up before we really got started;-) timothy --- Seth Steinzor wrote:The first fish I ever caught on a fly was a littlesmallmouth bass that roseout of the depths of the Winooski river to grab abead head woolly bugger from amidst the coils of bright yellow 6 weight linethat I had depositedabout six inches from the side of my canoe, whichwas rocking mildly at thetime from my exertions in trying to retrieve saidmess without making itworse. Even accounting for the indiscriminateaggressiveness of bass, thiswas surprising, to put it mildly. Ever since I havetaken with a grain ofsalt the injunctions we so often hear to approachthe water like a catburglar and use at least 12 feet of invisible,whisper thin tippet. Maybe Icould finesse a few more trout out of the water if Iwere more stealthy.But then I might not find myself so often standingin midstream, overcome inmidcast by the beauty of the passing scene, andletting my fly fall whereverand however it may. I'll trade those moments forany number of landedtrout. -----Original Message-----From: nobler [SMTP:nobler@satx.rr.com]Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 8:51 AM Subject: Re: Another rod finish question] As far as what the fish see, why do we use finetippet leaders ? I oncecaught 22 little trout, in 22 casts, using a royalcoachman dry, on a7'-6" leader, ahead of a day glow red 5 wt. line !So often the fish arejust not active, GMA ----- Original Message ----- From: Jon Beckton Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 1:13 AMSubject: [Fwd: Another rod finish question] Tony Young wrote: Re. line colour, apart from the fact you trynot to let the troutsee theline at all I've always thought a lightcoloured line would bebestcamouflage considering the trout is looking upinto the sky whichisusually brighter than the surrounding area. Having snorkelled while a buddy was fly fishing(I was hoping to seehowthe fly behaved, amongst other things) all lineslook black frombelowagainst a bright sky. I read somewhere that fishcan't see thecolourblue so I wonder why you don't see blue lines. Have a great holiday Jon Beckton ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Dec 23 08:37:28 1999 Thu, 23 Dec 1999 22:37:40 +0800 Subject: Re: Another rod finish question] types="text/plain,text/html";boundary="=====================_27187915==_.ALT" --=====================_27187915==_.ALT I guess it just shows how difficult it is to "think" like a trout. They don'teven see what we see. If their sight is so good what does your average flylooklike to one? Nothing like what we think that's for sure, sounds like noteventhe colours we think either. What d'you reckon a royal coachman looks like to a trout? Tony At 07:50 AM 12/23/99 -0600, nobler wrote: As far as what the fish see, why do we use fine tippet leaders ? I oncecaught 22 little trout, in 22 casts, using a royal coachman dry, on a 7'-6"leader, ahead of a day glow red 5 wt. line ! So often the fish are just notactive, GMA ----- Original Message ----- From: Jon Beckton Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 1:13 AM Subject: [Fwd: Another rod finish question] Tony Young wrote: Re. line colour, apart from the fact you try not to let the trout seethe line at all I've always thought a light coloured line would be best camouflage considering the trout is looking up into the sky which is usually brighter than the surrounding area. Having snorkelled while a buddy was fly fishing (I was hoping to seehow the fly behaved, amongst other things) all lines look black from below against a bright sky. I read somewhere that fish can't see the colour blue so I wonder why you don't see blue lines. Have a great holiday Jon Beckton /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_27187915==_.ALT I guess it just shows how difficult it is to "think" like atrout. They don't even see what we see. If their sight is so good whatdoes your average fly look like to one? Nothing like what we think that's What d'you reckon a royal coachman looks like to a trout? Tony At 07:50 AM 12/23/99 -0600, nobler wrote: As far as what the fish see,why do we use fine tippet leaders ? I once caught 22 little trout, in 22casts, using a royal coachman dry, on a 7'-6" leader, ahead of a dayglow red 5 wt. line ! So often the fish are just notactive, GMA ----- Original Message ----- From:Jon Beckton Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 1:13 AMSubject: [Fwd: Another rod finish question] Tony Young wrote: see the is Having snorkelled while a buddy was fly fishing (I was hoping to seehowthe fly behaved, amongst other things) all lines look black from belowagainst a bright sky. I read somewhere that fish can't see the colourblue so I wonder why you don't see blue lines. Have a great holiday Jon Beckton /*************************************************************************/AV Young And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_27187915==_.ALT-- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Dec 23 09:19:44 1999 Thu, 23 Dec 1999 07:19:10 -0800 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Another rod finish question boundary="------------554CB5F7D85B19A63A8D9C6E" --------------554CB5F7D85B19A63A8D9C6E Bill, and others --I've heard more than once that polyurethane can be polished, andthat George Maurer's stuff is the way to go. I've been meaning to ordersome from George, but haven't done it yet.Somebody on this list has to know what's in George's stuff. Any up the creek? I've got some Finesse-it Polish from 3M -- that doesn'twork well on polyurethane. Any other ideas out threre? Harry WILLIAM A HARMS wrote: Ralph,You'll have no trouble at all polishing a polyurethane finish.I too have heard it can't be done, and, although I don't know what thebasis for this opinion might be, I can assure you that you can obtaina mirror finish if that is your desire. As a hint, I might suggestthat you get one of the three-step polishing kits from George Maurerat Sweetwater Rods (no interest--yadda, yadda). I have no idea whatthe stuff is, but I've been using it for more than a year now, and theresults are always flawless. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From:Ralph MacKenzie Cc: caneman@clnk.com ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 8:37 PMSubject: Re: Another rod finish questionHaving recently had the opportunity to check into R10, Ifound that itis a polyurethane varnish, as opposed to a spar varnish.Now, I'm anovice/rookie here, but what I've read so far suggests thatsparvarnishes can be polished, but that supposedly,polyurethanes can not.Perhaps I'm reading too much into the "can't polish apolyurethane",since it would seem to me that most anything, even plastics,could bepolished if you approached the task correctly, but perhapsthe problemis that the materials you are using to do a polyurethane aremoreproperly intended to work with spar varnishes? Folks with more experience than me (that's just about *all*of them!)would have to confirm or correct, since as I said, this isonly based onwhat I've read as I'm getting ready to do some finishing. FWIW regards and season's greetings to everyone - mac Landeens wrote: I use Pratt and Lamber R10 High Gloss varnish and haveused two typesof polish with the same result: 1) Behlen DeluxingCompound fromWoodcraft and 2) Mequiar's Cleaner Wax. I don't know ifyou wouldclassify the final result as a true satin but it isdefinitely not ahigh gloss. It still looks good but I must be doingsomethingdifferent to not achieve that high gloss look. Is there achance I maybe sanding too much on the final coat?----- OriginalMessage ----- From: Bob Nunley Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 11:55 AMSubject: Re: Another rod finish questionThe satin finish puzzles me. My rods polish out toa highgloss. May be the difference in the varnish orpolish weare using. My rods usually go more than 3 coats, butI dosand a lot of each coat off, and many think,unnecessarily,but the final result is a nice level high glossfinish, nota satin one. ????? bob -----Original Message-----From: Landeens Date: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 10:18 AMSubject: Another rod finish questionI followed the recent discussion of how various rodmakers finish their rods and tried one of the methods on my last two rods. I sanded the firstcoat of varnish with mineral spirits and 400gritthe second coat with 600 grit and the third coat with 1200 grit and then applied a rubbingcompoundor polish. The flats are crisp and smooth withnorounded edges but by removing the varnish on the 3rd coat you end up with a satin like finishafterpolishing. I personally like the satin look buthave some questions. What is a person reallygaining by applying that 3rd coat of varnish ifitis going to be basically sanded off? In fact onapractice blank I polished a section withoutapplying varnish and it looks and feels exactlythe same as a blank that has 3 coats of varnishand one coat of polish. I am sure that thepolishalone will not fill in the pores or provide thenecessary protection against water etc but I was surprised that looks wise there was nodifference. --------------554CB5F7D85B19A63A8D9C6E Bill, and others -- oncethat polyurethane can be polished, and that George Maurer's stuff is the done it yet. has got some Finesse-it Polish from 3M -- that doesn't work well on Any other ideas out threre? WILLIAM A HARMS wrote: Ralph,You'll heard it can't be done, and, although I don't know what the basis for thisopinion might be, I can assure you that you can obtain a mirror finish of the three-step polishing kits from George Maurer at Sweetwater Rods(no interest--yadda, yadda). I have no idea what the stuff is, but I'vebeen using it for more than a year now, and the results are alwaysflawless.cheers,Bill ----- Original Message ----- From:RalphMacKenzie Cc: caneman@clnk.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 19998:37PM Subject: Re: Another rod finishquestion it I'm anovice/rookie here, but what I've read so far suggests that sparvarnishes can be polished, but that supposedly, polyurethanes can not.Perhaps I'm reading too much into the "can't polish a polyurethane",since it would seem to me that most anything, even plastics, couldbepolished if you approached the task correctly, but perhaps the problemis that the materials you are using to do a polyurethane are moreproperly intended to work with spar varnishes?Folks with more experience than me (that's just about *all* of them!)would have to confirm or correct, since as I said, this is only basedonwhat I've read as I'm getting ready to do some finishing.FWIWregards and season's greetings to everyone -macLandeens wrote:I use Pratt and Lamber R10 High Gloss varnish and have used twotypesof polish with the same result: 1) Behlen Deluxing Compound fromWoodcraft and 2) Mequiar's Cleaner Wax. I don't know if you wouldclassify the final result as a true satin but it is definitely notahigh gloss. It still looks good but I must be doing somethingdifferent to not achieve that high gloss look. Is there a chanceI maybe sanding too much on the final coat?----- Original Message ----- 11:55AM question My rods polish out to a high in the varnish or polish we more than 3 coats, but I do manythink, unnecessarily, high gloss finish, not --OriginalMessage----- Landeens <landeens@home.com> rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu> Tuesday, December 21, 1999 10:18 AM Subject:Another rod finish question I followed the recent discussion of how various rodmakersfinish their rods and tried one of the methodson my last two rods. I sanded the first coatof varnish with mineral spirits and 400 grit secondcoat with 600 grit and the third coat with1200 grit and then applied a rubbing compound polish.The flats are crisp and smooth with no roundededges but by removing the varnish on the coatyou end up with a satin like finish after polishing.I personally like the satin look but havesome questions. What is a person really gaining goingto be basically sanded off? In fact on a practiceblank I polished a section without applyingvarnish and it looks and feels exactly sameas a blank that has 3 coats of varnish onecoat of polish. I am sure that the polish alonewill not fill in the pores or provide the necessaryprotection against water etc but I was surprisedthat looks wise there was no difference. --------------554CB5F7D85B19A63A8D9C6E-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Dec 23 09:48:24 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 23 Dec 1999 09:33:53 -0600 Subject: Re: Another rod finish question boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF4D2A.1A7F9FC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF4D2A.1A7F9FC0 One more time, has anyone tried Gorham's Silver Polish ? We use this for =the final rub out to a finish that will rival any show auto ever seen ! =I will shortly do some tests to satisfy my own curiosity, by doing some =sample pieces of cane, with both poly urethane and Val Spar exterior =varnish. GMA Cc: mrmac@tcimet.net ; landeens@home.com ; caneman@clnk.com ; = Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 9:18 AMSubject: Re: Another rod finish question I've heard more than once that polyurethane can be polished, =and that George Maurer's stuff is the way to go. I've been meaning to = Somebody on this list has to know what's in George's stuff. =Any ideas? Or, when George stops selling this stuff, are we all going =to be up the creek? I've got some Finesse-it Polish from 3M -- that = Ralph,You'll have no trouble at all polishing a polyurethane finish. =I too have heard it can't be done, and, although I don't know what the =basis for this opinion might be, I can assure you that you can obtain a =mirror finish if that is your desire. As a hint, I might suggest that =you get one of the three- step polishing kits from George Maurer at =Sweetwater Rods (no interest--yadda, yadda). I have no idea what the =stuff is, but I've been using it for more than a year now, and the = ----- Original Message -----From:Ralph MacKenzie Cc: caneman@clnk.com ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 8:37 PMSubject: Re: Another rod finish questionHaving recently had the opportunity to check into R10, I found = is a polyurethane varnish, as opposed to a spar varnish. Now, I'm = varnishes can be polished, but that supposedly, polyurethanes can = Perhaps I'm reading too much into the "can't polish a = since it would seem to me that most anything, even plastics, could = polished if you approached the task correctly, but perhaps the = Folks with more experience than me (that's just about *all* of = would have to confirm or correct, since as I said, this is only = I use Pratt and Lamber R10 High Gloss varnish and have used two = of polish with the same result: 1) Behlen Deluxing Compound from = Woodcraft and 2) Mequiar's Cleaner Wax. I don't know if you = classify the final result as a true satin but it is definitely = different to not achieve that high gloss look. Is there a chance = be sanding too much on the final coat?----- Original Message = The satin finish puzzles me. My rods polish out to a high = sand a lot of each coat off, and many think, unnecessarily, = but the final result is a nice level high gloss finish, not = ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF4D2A.1A7F9FC0 One more time, has anyone tried Gorham's= ? We use this for the final rub out to a finish that will rival any show = ever seen ! I will shortly do some tests to satisfy my own curiosity, by = varnish. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Harry = ; caneman@clnk.com ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Thursday, December 23, = AMSubject: Re: Another rod finish = question polyurethane can be polished, and that George Maurer's stuff is the = = Finesse-it Polish from 3M -- that doesn't work well on = Ralph,You'll have no= done, and, although I don't know what the basis for this opinion = polishing kits from George Maurer at Sweetwater Rods (no = yadda). I have no idea what the stuff is, but I've been using it for = than a year now, and the results are always = cheers, = ----- Original Message ----- MacKenzie Cc: caneman@clnk.com ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSent: Tuesday, December 21, = PMSubject: Re: Another rod = I found that it is a polyurethane varnish, as opposed to a = far suggests that spar varnishes can be polished, but that = polyurethanes can not. Perhaps I'm reading too much into the = polish a polyurethane", since it would seem to me that most = even plastics, could be polished if you approached the task = but perhaps the problem is that the materials you are using to = polyurethane are more properly intended to work with spar = Folks with more experience than me (that's just about *all* of = would have to confirm or correct, since as I said, this is = = = = = = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= = <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= = = = = = = = = = the = = = = = = 3rd = = = = = = = = = the = = and = = = = = ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF4D2A.1A7F9FC0-- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Dec 23 09:50:48 1999 Thu, 23 Dec 1999 07:50:31 -0800 "Flyfish @ mailing list" Subject: Wishes for Christmas and New Year (long) To all my friends in cyberspace: May your hair, your teeth, your face, your abs and your stocks notfall; and May your blood pressure, your triglycerides, yourcholesterol,your white blood count and your mortgage interest not rise. May you get a clean bill of health from your dentist, yourcardiologist,your gastroenterologist, your urologist, your proctologist, yourpodiatrist, your psychiatrist, your plumber and the IRS. May you find a way to travel from anywhere to anywhere in the rushhourin less than an hour, and when you get there May you find a parkingspace. May Friday evening, December 31, find you seated around the dinnertable, together with your beloved family and cherished friends,usheringin the New Year ahead. You will find the food better, the environmentquieter, the cost much cheaper, and the pleasure much more fulfillingthan anything else you might ordinarily do that night. May you wake up on January 1st, finding that the world has not come to an end, the lights work, the water faucets flow, the sky has notfallen, and your email is going strong. May you go to the bank on Monday morning, January 3rd and find youraccount is in order, your money is still there and any mistakes are in your favor. May you ponder on January 4th; How did this ultramodern civilizationofours manage to get itself traumatized by a possible slip of a blip onachip made out of sand. May you (in the US) have the strength to go through a year ofpresidentialcampaigning, and May some of the promises made be kept. May youbelieveat least half of what the candidates propose, and May those electedfulfill at least half of what they promise, and the miracle ofreducingtaxes and balancing budgets happen. May what you see in the mirror delight you, and what others see in you delight them. May the telemarketers wait to make their sales calls until you finishdinner, and May your check book and your budget balance, and May theyinclude generous amounts for charity. May you remember to say "I love you" at least once a day to yourspouse,your child, your parent; but not to your secretary, your nurse, yourmasseuse, your hairdresser or your tennis instructor. May we live as intended: in a world at peace, and aware of thebeauty in every sunset, every flower's unfolding petals, every baby'ssmile and every wonderful, astonishing, miraculous beat of our heart. My best wishes in rodbuilding and flyfishing to all of you. May yournodes beflat, your blades sharp, your glue lines tight, and your sectionsstraight. May your dry flies float high, and your nymphs swing low. At Christmas, May we all come out of the workshop or off the stream do something nice for someone who cannot possibly return the favor. May we indulge our wives and husbands and children and grandchildren fora day or two, and while enjoying the food and merriment, remember those extravaganza this season.May we remember, the season celebrates the birth of the Prince ofpeace, Wonderful Counselor, the Everlasting Father, not the greatdivider of men. The love and grace of God is worthy of our celebrationsand praise, by whatever name we call Him. And the heavenly host sang, ".... On Earth, peace towards men ofgood will." Yours, Harry Boyd(or as CC calls me, "The Rev") from gholland@navsys.com Thu Dec 23 10:05:02 1999 Rodmakers Subject: RE: Another rod finish question] boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01BF4D60.30CAF10E" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF4D60.30CAF10E iI have to jump in on this one,if I may......"As far as what the fishsee....." why do we use fine tippet? In my opinion, absolutely no reason.Only two reasons to use fine tippet in my book - reduction of drag and tinyhook eyes. Did you ever try to jam 4X tippet through the eye of a #22 or#24 fly? Browse throught Ralph Cutter's web sit and read about his scubaexperiments ( http://www.flyline.com ). He hascome to the conclusion that I only logically (not imperically)deduced......the water is full of a bunch of crap and the leader (and line,in some instances) is just more crap........the trout is not really able todistinguish it. Drag, movement, splashing and a stick waving overheadthatappears to be about 30 long (to a trout) will spook, but not commonflotsam. This puts me in the "I want bright ferrules and a shiny finish" school.But, as has been stated, make it the way you like it. Greg Holland -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Another rod finish question] As far as what the fish see, why do we use fine tippet leaders ? I oncecaught 22 little trout, in 22 casts, using a royal coachman dry, on a 7'-6"leader, ahead of a day glow red 5 wt. line ! So often the fish are just notactive, GMA ----- Original Message ----- Subject: [Fwd: Another rod finish question] Tony Young wrote: Re. line colour, apart from the fact you try not to let the trout see theline at all I've always thought a light coloured line would be bestcamouflage considering the trout is looking up into the sky which isusually brighter than the surrounding area. Having snorkelled while a buddy was fly fishing (I was hoping to see howthe fly behaved, amongst other things) all lines look black from belowagainst a bright sky. I read somewhere that fish can't see the colourblue so I wonder why you don't see blue lines. Have a great holiday Jon Beckton ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF4D60.30CAF10E iI have to jump in on this one,if I may......"As far as what the fish see....." why of drag of a about his scuba experiments ( http://www.flyline.com imperically) deduced......the water is full of a bunch of crap and the leader (and line, in some instances) is just more crap........the trout is not really able to overhead that appears to be about 30 long (to a trout) will spook, but not common This But, as has been stated, make it the way you like it. Greg Holland -----Original Message-----From: nobler 1999 6:51 Re: Another rod finish question]As far as what the fish see, why do we usefine tippet leaders ? I once caught 22 little trout, in 22 casts, using a royal coachman dry, on a 7'-6" leader, ahead of a day glow red 5 wt. line ! Sooften the fish are just not active, GMA ----- Original Message ----- From: Jon Beckton Sent: Thursday, December 23,1999 1:13 AMSubject: [Fwd: Another rod finish question] colour, all camouflage usually brighter than the surrounding area.Having snorkelledwhile a buddy was fly fishing (I was hoping to see howthe fly behaved,amongst other things) all lines look black from belowagainst a bright sky. I read somewhere that fish can't see the colourblue so I wonder whyyou don't see blue lines.Have a great holidayJon Beckton ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF4D60.30CAF10E-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Dec 23 10:13:12 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 23 Dec 1999 10:04:32 -0600 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Another rod finish question] boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01BF4D2E.629305A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BF4D2E.629305A0 My only intended point was that line color, etc., was not very =important, as we depend on a leader. Otherwise, we'd be connecting =directly to the huge (in comparison) fly line. Proper presentation is 99% of catching, rather than just fishing ! GMA Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 10:10 AMSubject: RE: Another rod finish question] iI have to jump in on this one,if I may......"As far as what the fish =see....." why do we use fine tippet? In my opinion, absolutely no =reason. Only two reasons to use fine tippet in my book - reduction of =drag and tiny hook eyes. Did you ever try to jam 4X tippet through the =eye of a #22 or #24 fly? Browse throught Ralph Cutter's web sit and =read about his scuba experiments ( http://www.flyline.com ). He has =come to the conclusion that I only logically (not imperically) =deduced......the water is full of a bunch of crap and the leader (and =line, in some instances) is just more crap........the trout is not =really able to distinguish it. Drag, movement, splashing and a stick =waving overhead that appears to be about 30 long (to a trout) will = This puts me in the "I want bright ferrules and a shiny finish" =school. But, as has been stated, make it the way you like it. Greg Holland-----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 6:51 AM Subject: Re: Another rod finish question] As far as what the fish see, why do we use fine tippet leaders ? I =once caught 22 little trout, in 22 casts, using a royal coachman dry, on =a 7'-6" leader, ahead of a day glow red 5 wt. line ! So often the fish =are just not active, GMA Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 1:13 AMSubject: [Fwd: Another rod finish question] Tony Young wrote: Re. line colour, apart from the fact you try not to let the =trout see theline at all I've always thought a light coloured line would be =bestcamouflage considering the trout is looking up into the sky =which isusually brighter than the surrounding area. Having snorkelled while a buddy was fly fishing (I was hoping to =see howthe fly behaved, amongst other things) all lines look black from =belowagainst a bright sky. I read somewhere that fish can't see the =colourblue so I wonder why you don't see blue lines. Have a great holiday Jon Beckton ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BF4D2E.629305A0 My only intended point was that line color,= not very important, as we depend on a leader. Otherwise, we'd be = directly to the huge (in comparison) fly line. Proper presentation is 99% of catching, = just fishing ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- Holland Sent: Thursday, December 23, = AMSubject: RE: Another rod finish = question] have to jump in on this one,if I may......"As far as what the fish = = He = to the conclusion that I only logically (not imperically) = water is full of a bunch of crap and the leader (and line, in some = is just more crap........the trout is not really able to distinguish = Drag, movement, splashing and a stick waving overhead that appears to = puts me in the "I want bright ferrules and a shiny finish" = as has been stated, make it the way you like it. Holland