= Another rod finish question]As far as what the fish see, why do we = tippet leaders ? I once caught 22 little trout, in 22 casts, using a = coachman dry, on a 7'-6" leader, ahead of a day glow red 5 wt. line = often the fish are just not active, GMA ----- Original Message ----- = Beckton Sent: Thursday, December = 1:13 AMSubject: [Fwd: Another rod = question] all I've always thought a light coloured line would be = snorkelled while a buddy was fly fishing (I was hoping to see = belowagainst a bright sky. I read somewhere that fish can't = colourblue so I wonder why you don't see blue = Beckton ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BF4D2E.629305A0-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Dec 23 10:19:40 1999 Fri, 24 Dec 1999 00:18:41 +0800 Rodmakers types="text/plain,text/html";boundary="=====================_33318629==_.ALT" --=====================_33318629==_.ALT Lets face it, trout are just weird animals and I like it that way, basically,if you're seen or you mess up the cast it's all over but unearthly offeringsdelivered on what apparently looks like a barge hawser don't seem to be aproblem.I'd like to add that I like fine tippets so I break less rod tips when the flyengages with an unseen structure on the back cast be it a mate's neck(funnystory that) or a twig. A finer tippet will hopefully break before the tipdoes.You're right though, inserting a 4X tippet through the eye of a #22 or #24flyis harder than threading camels through the eyes of a needles, just to putitin the perspective of the season. Tony At 09:10 AM 12/23/99 -0700, Greg Holland wrote: iI have to jump in on this one,if I may......"As far as what the fishsee....." why do we use fine tippet? In my opinion, absolutely noreason. Only two reasons to use fine tippet in my book - reduction of drag andtinyhook eyes. Did you ever try to jam 4X tippet through the eye of a #22 or#24fly? Browse throught Ralph Cutter's web sit and read about his scubaexperiments ( http://www.flyline.com ). Hehas cometo the conclusion that I only logically (not imperically) deduced......thewater is full of a bunch of crap and the leader (and line, in someinstances)is just more crap........the trout is not really able to distinguish it. Drag, movement, splashing and a stick waving overhead that appears tobeabout 30 long (to a trout) will spook, but not common flotsam. This puts me in the "I want bright ferrules and a shiny finish" school.But,as has been stated, make it the way you like it. Greg Holland -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 6:51 AM Subject: Re: Another rod finish question] As far as what the fish see, why do we use fine tippet leaders ? I oncecaught 22 little trout, in 22 casts, using a royal coachman dry, on a 7'-6"leader, ahead of a day glow red 5 wt. line ! So often the fish are just notactive, GMA ----- Original Message ----- From: Jon Beckton Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 1:13 AM Subject: [Fwd: Another rod finish question] Tony Young wrote: Re. line colour, apart from the fact you try not to let the trout seethe line at all I've always thought a light coloured line would be best camouflage considering the trout is looking up into the sky which is usually brighter than the surrounding area. Having snorkelled while a buddy was fly fishing (I was hoping to seehow the fly behaved, amongst other things) all lines look black from below against a bright sky. I read somewhere that fish can't see the colour blue so I wonder why you don't see blue lines. Have a great holiday Jon Beckton /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_33318629==_.ALT Lets face it, trout are just weird animals and I like it that way,basically, if you're seen or you mess up the cast it's all over butunearthly offerings delivered on what apparently looks like a bargehawser don't seem to be a problem.I'd like to add that I like fine tippets so I break less rod tips whenthe fly engages with an unseen structure on the back cast be it a mate'sneck (funny story that) or a twig. A finer tippet will hopefully breakbefore the tip does.You're right though, inserting a 4X tippet through the eye of a #22 or#24 fly is harder than threading camels through the eyes of a needles,just to put it in the perspective of the season. Tony At 09:10 AM 12/23/99 -0700, Greg Holland wrote: iIhave to jump in on this one,if I may......"As far as what the fish throught Ralph Cutter's web sit and read about his scuba experiments (http://www.flyline.com imperically) deduced......the water is full of a bunch of crap and the=leader (and line, in some instances) is just more crap........the trout is= stick waving overhead that appears to be about 30 long (to a trout) will= This puts me inthe= as=has been stated, make it the way you like it. Greg=Holland -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 6:51 AM Subject: Re: Another rod finish question] As far as what the fish see, why do we use fine tippet leaders ? Ionce=caught 22 little trout, in 22 casts, using a royal coachman dry, on a=7'-6" leader, ahead of a day glow red 5 wt. line ! So often the fish=are just not active, GMA----- Original Message ----- From: Jon Beckton Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 1:13 AMSubject: [Fwd: Another rod finish question] Tony Young wrote: see the which=is Having snorkelled while a buddy was fly fishing (I was hoping to seehowthe fly behaved, amongst other things) all lines look black from belowagainst a bright sky. I read somewhere that fish can't see the colourblue so I wonder why you don't see blue lines. Have a great holiday Jon Beckton /**********************************************************************=***/AV Young And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_33318629==_.ALT-- from gholland@navsys.com Thu Dec 23 10:23:02 1999 Greg Holland Rodmakers boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01BF4D62.B50439B0" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF4D62.B50439B0 You're right, Tony, I missed that one (and enjoyed the camel, eye of theneedle reference....which puts our difficulties in perspective). Which also leads to the real reason to use barbless hooks.....quick and lesspainful release of the fisherman....especially when you are using more thanone fly and a decent trout is hooked by one and you are hooked by the other.This is a terrible experience if you haven't smashed your barbs. Greg -----Original Message----- Lets face it, trout are just weird animals and I like it that way,basically, if you're seen or you mess up the cast it's all over butunearthly offerings delivered on what apparently looks like a bargehawserdon't seem to be a problem.I'd like to add that I like fine tippets so I break less rod tips when thefly engages with an unseen structure on the back cast be it a mate's neck(funny story that) or a twig. A finer tippet will hopefully break before thetip does.You're right though, inserting a 4X tippet through the eye of a #22 or #24fly is harder than threading camels through the eyes of a needles, just toput it in the perspective of the season. Tony At 09:10 AM 12/23/99 -0700, Greg Holland wrote: iI have to jump in on this one,if I may......"As far as what the fishsee....." why do we use fine tippet? In my opinion, absolutely no reason.Only two reasons to use fine tippet in my book - reduction of drag and tinyhook eyes. Did you ever try to jam 4X tippet through the eye of a #22 or#24 fly? Browse throught Ralph Cutter's web sit and read about his scubaexperiments ( http://www.flyline.com ). He hascome to the conclusion that I only logically (not imperically)deduced......the water is full of a bunch of crap and the leader (and line,in some instances) is just more crap........the trout is not really able todistinguish it. Drag, movement, splashing and a stick waving overheadthatappears to be about 30 long (to a trout) will spook, but not commonflotsam. This puts me in the "I want bright ferrules and a shiny finish" school.But, as has been stated, make it the way you like it. Greg Holland -----Original Message----- As far as what the fish see, why do we use fine tippet leaders ? I oncecaught 22 little trout, in 22 casts, using a royal coachman dry, on a 7'-6"leader, ahead of a day glow red 5 wt. line ! So often the fish are just notactive, GMA ----- Original Message ----- Tony Young wrote: Re. line colour, apart from the fact you try not to let the trout see the line at all I've always thought a light coloured line would be best camouflage considering the trout is looking up into the sky which is usually brighter than the surrounding area. Having snorkelled while a buddy was fly fishing (I was hoping to see how the fly behaved, amongst other things) all lines look black from below against a bright sky. I read somewhere that fish can't see the colour blue so I wonder why you don't see blue lines. Have a great holiday Jon Beckton /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF4D62.B50439B0 You're right, Tony, I missed that one (and enjoyed the camel, eye of the needle Which also leads to the real reason to use barbless hooks.....quick and less painful release of the fisherman....especially when you are using more than one flyand is a terrible experience if you haven't smashed yourbarbs. Greg -----Original Message-----From: Tony Young 1999 9:27 'nobler@satx.rr.com'; Jon.Beckton@asml.nl; RodmakersSubject: RE: Another rodfinish question]Lets face it, trout are just weirdanimals and I like it that way, basically, if you're seen or you mess up the cast it's all over but unearthly offerings delivered on what apparently looks like abarge hawser don't seem to be a problem.I'd like to add that I like finetippets so I break less rod tips when the fly engages with an unseen structure onthe back cast be it a mate's neck (funny story that) or a twig. A finer tippet will hopefully break before the tip does.You're right though,inserting a 4X tippet through the eye of a #22 or #24 fly is harder than threadingcamels through the eyes of a needles, just to put it in the perspective of the season.TonyAt 09:10 AM 12/23/99 -0700, GregHolland wrote: iI have to jump in on this one,if I may......"As far as what the fish see....." why do we use fine Only two reasons to use fine tippet in my book - reduction of drag and tinyhook or his scuba experiments ( http://www.flyline.com come to the conclusion that I only logically (not imperically) deduced......the water is full of a bunch of crap and the leader (and line, in some instances) is just more crap........the trout is not really able to overhead that appears to be about 30 long (to a trout) will spook, but not common ferrules way you like it.Greg Holland -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 6:51AM Subject: Re: Another rod finish question]As far as what the fish see, why do we use fine tippet leaders ?I once caught 22 little trout, in 22 casts, using a royal coachman dry,on a 7'-6" leader, ahead of a day glow red 5 wt. line ! So often the fish are just not active, GMA ----- Original Message ----- From: Jon Beckton Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 1:13AM Subject: [Fwd: Another rod finishquestion]Tony Young wrote: trout see the best which is Having snorkelled while a buddy was fly fishing (I was hoping tosee how the fly behaved, amongst other things) all lines look black from below against a bright sky. I read somewhere that fish can't see the colour blue so I wonder why you don't see blue lines.Have a great holidayJonBeckton /*************************************************************************/AV Young And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. It/*************************************************************************/ ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF4D62.B50439B0-- from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Dec 23 10:33:14 1999 0000 1999 08:33:11 PST fellow anglers, i think we are mostly in agreement. personally i don't think a fish cares if there is a40' antenna connected to a fisherman coing out of abugs head. small tippets are not used so much forlack of visibility but to deal with drag or micro-dragissues. (rod tips are an issue ,too). TIMOTHY ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com from sniderja@email.uc.edu Thu Dec 23 10:34:50 1999 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" ,"Flyfish @ mailing list" Well said, Harry, and thanks for reminding us.J. Snider At 09:49 AM 12/23/99 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote:To all my friends in cyberspace: May your hair, your teeth, your face, your abs and your stocks notfall; and May your blood pressure, your triglycerides, yourcholesterol,your white blood count and your mortgage interest not rise. May you get a clean bill of health from your dentist, yourcardiologist,your gastroenterologist, your urologist, your proctologist, yourpodiatrist, your psychiatrist, your plumber and the IRS. May you find a way to travel from anywhere to anywhere in the rushhourin less than an hour, and when you get there May you find a parkingspace. May Friday evening, December 31, find you seated around the dinnertable, together with your beloved family and cherished friends,usheringin the New Year ahead. You will find the food better, the environmentquieter, the cost much cheaper, and the pleasure much more fulfillingthan anything else you might ordinarily do that night. May you wake up on January 1st, finding that the world has not come to an end, the lights work, the water faucets flow, the sky has notfallen, and your email is going strong. May you go to the bank on Monday morning, January 3rd and find youraccount is in order, your money is still there and any mistakes are in your favor. May you ponder on January 4th; How did this ultramodern civilizationofours manage to get itself traumatized by a possible slip of a blip onachip made out of sand. May you (in the US) have the strength to go through a year ofpresidentialcampaigning, and May some of the promises made be kept. May youbelieveat least half of what the candidates propose, and May those electedfulfill at least half of what they promise, and the miracle ofreducingtaxes and balancing budgets happen. May what you see in the mirror delight you, and what others see in you delight them. May the telemarketers wait to make their sales calls until you finishdinner, and May your check book and your budget balance, and May theyinclude generous amounts for charity. May you remember to say "I love you" at least once a day to yourspouse,your child, your parent; but not to your secretary, your nurse, yourmasseuse, your hairdresser or your tennis instructor. May we live as intended: in a world at peace, and aware of thebeauty in every sunset, every flower's unfolding petals, every baby'ssmile and every wonderful, astonishing, miraculous beat of our heart. My best wishes in rodbuilding and flyfishing to all of you. May yournodes beflat, your blades sharp, your glue lines tight, and your sectionsstraight. May your dry flies float high, and your nymphs swing low. At Christmas, May we all come out of the workshop or off the stream do something nice for someone who cannot possibly return the favor. May we indulge our wives and husbands and children and grandchildren fora day or two, and while enjoying the food and merriment, remember those extravaganza this season.May we remember, the season celebrates the birth of the Prince ofpeace, Wonderful Counselor, the Everlasting Father, not the greatdivider of men. The love and grace of God is worthy of our celebrationsand praise, by whatever name we call Him. And the heavenly host sang, ".... On Earth, peace towards men ofgood will." Yours, Harry Boyd(or as CC calls me, "The Rev") from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Dec 23 10:35:53 1999 0000 1999 08:35:51 PST harry boyd, i accidently deleted your essay, chritmasgreeting could you send it to me again please. thankyou! timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com from sniderja@email.uc.edu Thu Dec 23 10:50:08 1999 Rodmakers boundary="=====================_11697859==_.ALT" --=====================_11697859==_.ALT Most of my fishing is done with small flies, from 18 to 24. These oftenare onlarge trout (large is relative, but I am referring to 18"-24" fish). Thesefishhold in very shallow water and, when hooked, wallow like a stuck pig thentakeoff like a bat for deeper water, usually going into the backing. Smalltippetssimply don't work here (for me), but the large, ring eye hooks in smallsizespermits me to stay within a reasonable tippet size, 5x or even 4x whenthetrout are still busting me off. On good days, or on extremely difficult fish6xwill work some of the time. Granted this may be my own lack ofsensitivity (thereel set on zero drag) in fingering the spool, but in 52 years I still haven'tbeen able to get it right under these particular conditions. When usingsynthetic rods, 6x and 7x simply won't cut it (with perhaps, Winston andtheirsofter tips being an exception). Bamboo certainly makes life easier whenfishing under these conditions. The initial hookup and run seems to besoftenedconsiderably. I once maintained that for casting synthetic feels better,butafter getting the line on the water (mending, hookups, etc.) bamboo seemsfarsuperior. Of course, I am seriously reconsidering the first portion of thatstatement over the past few years having now returned to bamboo onceagain.J. Snider At 12:27 AM 12/24/99 +0800, Tony Young wrote: Lets face it, trout are just weird animals and I like it that way,basically,if you're seen or you mess up the cast it's all over but unearthlyofferingsdelivered on what apparently looks like a barge hawser don't seem to beaproblem.I'd like to add that I like fine tippets so I break less rod tips when thefly engages with an unseen structure on the back cast be it a mate's neck(funny story that) or a twig. A finer tippet will hopefully break beforethetip does.You're right though, inserting a 4X tippet through the eye of a #22 or #24fly is harder than threading camels through the eyes of a needles, just toput it in the perspective of the season. Tony At 09:10 AM 12/23/99 -0700, Greg Holland wrote: iI have to jump in on this one,if I may......"As far as what the fishsee....." why do we use fine tippet? In my opinion, absolutely noreason. Only two reasons to use fine tippet in my book - reduction ofdragand tiny hook eyes. Did you ever try to jam 4X tippet through the eye ofa#22 or #24 fly? Browse throught Ralph Cutter's web sit and read abouthisscuba experiments ( http://www.flyline.com ).He hascome to the conclusion that I only logically (not imperically)deduced......the water is full of a bunch of crap and the leader (and line,in some instances) is just more crap........the trout is not really able todistinguish it. Drag, movement, splashing and a stick waving overheadthatappears to be about 30 long (to a trout) will spook, but not commonflotsam. This puts me in the "I want bright ferrules and a shiny finish" school. But, as has been stated, make it the way you like it. Greg Holland -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 6:51 AM Subject: Re: Another rod finish question] As far as what the fish see, why do we use fine tippet leaders ? I oncecaught 22 little trout, in 22 casts, using a royal coachman dry, on a 7'-6"leader, ahead of a day glow red 5 wt. line ! So often the fish are justnotactive, GMA ----- Original Message ----- From: Jon Beckton Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 1:13 AM Subject: [Fwd: Another rod finish question] Tony Young wrote: Re. line colour, apart from the fact you try not to let the trout seetheline at all I've always thought a light coloured line would be best camouflage considering the trout is looking up into the sky which is usually brighter than the surrounding area. Having snorkelled while a buddy was fly fishing (I was hoping to seehow the fly behaved, amongst other things) all lines look black from below against a bright sky. I read somewhere that fish can't see the colour blue so I wonder why you don't see blue lines. Have a great holiday Jon Beckton /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_11697859==_.ALT often are on large trout (large is relative, but I am referring to18"- 24" fish). These fish hold in very shallow water and, whenhooked, wallow like a stuck pig then take off like a bat for deeper work here (for me), but the large, ring eye hooks in small sizes permitsme to stay within a reasonable tippet size, 5x or even 4x when the troutare still busting me off. On good days, or on extremely difficult fish 6xwill work some of the time. Granted this may be my own lack ofsensitivity (the reel set on zero drag) in fingering the spool, but in 52years I still haven't been able to get it right under these particularconditions. When using synthetic rods, 6x and 7x simply won't cut it Bamboo certainly makes life easier when fishing under these conditions. once maintained that for casting synthetic feels better, but aftergetting the line on the water (mending, hookups, etc.) bamboo seems far portion of that statement over the past few years having now returned tobamboo once again.J. Snider At 12:27 AM 12/24/99 +0800, Tony Young wrote: Lets face it, trout are just weird animalsandI like it that way, basically, if you're seen or you mess up the castit's all over but unearthly offerings delivered on what apparently lookslike a barge hawser don't seem to be a problem.I'd like to add that I like fine tippets so I break less rod tips whenthe fly engages with an unseen structure on the back cast be it a mate'sneck (funny story that) or a twig. A finer tippet will hopefully breakbefore the tip does.You're right though, inserting a 4X tippet through the eye of a #22 or#24 fly is harder than threading camels through the eyes of a needles,just to put it in the perspective of the season. Tony At 09:10 AM 12/23/99 -0700, Greg Holland wrote: iIhave to jump in on this one,if I may......"As far as what the fish throught Ralph Cutter's web sit and read about his scuba experiments ( Hehas come to the conclusion that I only logically (not imperically)deduced......the water is full of a bunch of crap and the leader (andline, in some instances) is just more crap........the trout is not really waving overhead that appears to be about 30 long (to a trout) will spook, This puts me in the "I want bright ferrules and a shiny finish" Greg Holland From: nobler Subject: Re: Another rod finish question] As far as what the fish see, why do we use fine tippet leaders ? Ionce caught 22 little trout, in 22 casts, using a royal coachman dry, ona 7'-6" leader, ahead of a day glow red 5 wt. line ! So often thefish are just not active, Subject: [Fwd: Another rod finish question] Having snorkelled while a buddy was fly fishing (I was hoping to see the fly behaved, amongst other things) all lines look black from against a bright sky. I read somewhere that fish can't see the blue so I wonder why you don't see blue lines. Have a great holiday Jon Beckton /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_11697859==_.ALT-- from channer@netscape.net Thu Dec 23 11:11:54 1999 0000 mailer(M3.3.1.96)on Thu Dec 23 17:11:50 GMT 1999 "Flyfish@mailing list" Harry;This is the best Christmas wish I have ever seen, thank you for sharing itwith us and please send it out to the world at large, I am sure they couldalluse the smile and the thought. Merry Christmas and Happy Y2K to all thelist.JohnAt 09:49 AM 12/23/99 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote:To all my friends in cyberspace: May your hair, your teeth, your face, your abs and your stocks notfall; and May your blood pressure, your triglycerides, yourcholesterol,your white blood count and your mortgage interest not rise. May you get a clean bill of health from your dentist, yourcardiologist,your gastroenterologist, your urologist, your proctologist, yourpodiatrist, your psychiatrist, your plumber and the IRS. May you find a way to travel from anywhere to anywhere in the rushhourin less than an hour, and when you get there May you find a parkingspace. May Friday evening, December 31, find you seated around the dinnertable, together with your beloved family and cherished friends,usheringin the New Year ahead. You will find the food better, the environmentquieter, the cost much cheaper, and the pleasure much more fulfillingthan anything else you might ordinarily do that night. May you wake up on January 1st, finding that the world has not cometo an end, the lights work, the water faucets flow, the sky has notfallen, and your email is going strong. May you go to the bank on Monday morning, January 3rd and find youraccount is in order, your money is still there and any mistakes are in your favor. May you ponder on January 4th; How did this ultramodern civilizationofours manage to get itself traumatized by a possible slip of a blip onachip made out of sand. May you (in the US) have the strength to go through a year ofpresidentialcampaigning, and May some of the promises made be kept. May youbelieveat least half of what the candidates propose, and May those electedfulfill at least half of what they promise, and the miracle ofreducingtaxes and balancing budgets happen. May what you see in the mirror delight you, and what others see in you delight them. May the telemarketers wait to make their sales calls until you finishdinner, and May your check book and your budget balance, and May theyinclude generous amounts for charity. May you remember to say "I love you" at least once a day to yourspouse,your child, your parent; but not to your secretary, your nurse, yourmasseuse, your hairdresser or your tennis instructor. May we live as intended: in a world at peace, and aware of thebeauty in every sunset, every flower's unfolding petals, every baby'ssmile and every wonderful, astonishing, miraculous beat of our heart. My best wishes in rodbuilding and flyfishing to all of you. May yournodes beflat, your blades sharp, your glue lines tight, and your sectionsstraight. May your dry flies float high, and your nymphs swing low. At Christmas, May we all come out of the workshop or off the stream do something nice for someone who cannot possibly return the favor. May we indulge our wives and husbands and children and grandchildrenfora day or two, and while enjoying the food and merriment, rememberthose extravaganza this season.May we remember, the season celebrates the birth of the Prince ofpeace, Wonderful Counselor, the Everlasting Father, not the greatdivider of men. The love and grace of God is worthy of our celebrationsand praise, by whatever name we call Him. And the heavenly host sang, ".... On Earth, peace towards men ofgood will." Yours, Harry Boyd(or as CC calls me, "The Rev") ____________________________________________________________________Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today athttp://webmail.netscape.com. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Dec 23 12:57:39 1999 Thu, 23 Dec 1999 10:57:33 -0800 "Flyfish@mailing list" Thanks John,I sent it to FF@ and Rodmakers. That's close enough to the whole worldat large. Harry ms channer wrote: Harry;This is the best Christmas wish I have ever seen, thank you for sharingitwith us and please send it out to the world at large, I am sure they couldalluse the smile and the thought. Merry Christmas and Happy Y2K to all thelist.JohnAt 09:49 AM 12/23/99 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote:To all my friends in cyberspace: May your hair, your teeth, your face, your abs and your stocks notfall; and May your blood pressure, your triglycerides, yourcholesterol,your white blood count and your mortgage interest not rise. May you get a clean bill of health from your dentist, yourcardiologist,your gastroenterologist, your urologist, your proctologist, yourpodiatrist, your psychiatrist, your plumber and the IRS. May you find a way to travel from anywhere to anywhere in the rushhourin less than an hour, and when you get there May you find a parkingspace. May Friday evening, December 31, find you seated around the dinnertable, together with your beloved family and cherished friends,usheringin the New Year ahead. You will find the food better, the environmentquieter, the cost much cheaper, and the pleasure much morefulfillingthan anything else you might ordinarily do that night. May you wake up on January 1st, finding that the world has not cometo an end, the lights work, the water faucets flow, the sky has notfallen, and your email is going strong. May you go to the bank on Monday morning, January 3rd and find youraccount is in order, your money is still there and any mistakes are in your favor. May you ponder on January 4th; How did this ultramodern civilizationofours manage to get itself traumatized by a possible slip of a blip onachip made out of sand. May you (in the US) have the strength to go through a year ofpresidentialcampaigning, and May some of the promises made be kept. May youbelieveat least half of what the candidates propose, and May those electedfulfill at least half of what they promise, and the miracle ofreducingtaxes and balancing budgets happen. May what you see in the mirror delight you, and what others see inyou delight them. May the telemarketers wait to make their sales calls until you finishdinner, and May your check book and your budget balance, and Maytheyinclude generous amounts for charity. May you remember to say "I love you" at least once a day to yourspouse,your child, your parent; but not to your secretary, your nurse, yourmasseuse, your hairdresser or your tennis instructor. May we live as intended: in a world at peace, and aware of thebeauty in every sunset, every flower's unfolding petals, every baby'ssmile and every wonderful, astonishing, miraculous beat of our heart. My best wishes in rodbuilding and flyfishing to all of you. May yournodes beflat, your blades sharp, your glue lines tight, and your sectionsstraight. May your dry flies float high, and your nymphs swing low. At Christmas, May we all come out of the workshop or off the stream do something nice for someone who cannot possibly return the favor. May we indulge our wives and husbands and children and grandchildrenfora day or two, and while enjoying the food and merriment, rememberthose extravaganza this season.May we remember, the season celebrates the birth of the Prince ofpeace, Wonderful Counselor, the Everlasting Father, not the greatdivider of men. The love and grace of God is worthy of ourcelebrationsand praise, by whatever name we call Him. And the heavenly host sang, ".... On Earth, peace towards men ofgood will." Yours, Harry Boyd(or as CC calls me, "The Rev") ____________________________________________________________________Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com. from rsgould@cmc.net Thu Dec 23 13:10:40 1999 "Flyfish @ mailing list" Thank you Harry! Truly you have said it well. There is much we can do tomake this a better world for all.Ray----- Original Message ----- To all my friends in cyberspace: May your hair, your teeth, your face, your abs and your stocks notfall; and May your blood pressure, your triglycerides, yourcholesterol,your white blood count and your mortgage interest not rise. May you get a clean bill of health from your dentist, yourcardiologist,your gastroenterologist, your urologist, your proctologist, yourpodiatrist, your psychiatrist, your plumber and the IRS. May you find a way to travel from anywhere to anywhere in the rushhourin less than an hour, and when you get there May you find a parkingspace. May Friday evening, December 31, find you seated around the dinnertable, together with your beloved family and cherished friends,usheringin the New Year ahead. You will find the food better, the environmentquieter, the cost much cheaper, and the pleasure much more fulfillingthan anything else you might ordinarily do that night. May you wake up on January 1st, finding that the world has not come to an end, the lights work, the water faucets flow, the sky has notfallen, and your email is going strong. May you go to the bank on Monday morning, January 3rd and find youraccount is in order, your money is still there and any mistakes are in your favor. May you ponder on January 4th; How did this ultramodern civilizationofours manage to get itself traumatized by a possible slip of a blip onachip made out of sand. May you (in the US) have the strength to go through a year ofpresidentialcampaigning, and May some of the promises made be kept. May youbelieveat least half of what the candidates propose, and May those electedfulfill at least half of what they promise, and the miracle ofreducingtaxes and balancing budgets happen. May what you see in the mirror delight you, and what others see in you delight them. May the telemarketers wait to make their sales calls until you finishdinner, and May your check book and your budget balance, and May theyinclude generous amounts for charity. May you remember to say "I love you" at least once a day to yourspouse,your child, your parent; but not to your secretary, your nurse, yourmasseuse, your hairdresser or your tennis instructor. May we live as intended: in a world at peace, and aware of thebeauty in every sunset, every flower's unfolding petals, every baby'ssmile and every wonderful, astonishing, miraculous beat of our heart. My best wishes in rodbuilding and flyfishing to all of you. May yournodes beflat, your blades sharp, your glue lines tight, and your sectionsstraight. May your dry flies float high, and your nymphs swing low. At Christmas, May we all come out of the workshop or off the stream do something nice for someone who cannot possibly return the favor. May we indulge our wives and husbands and children and grandchildrenfora day or two, and while enjoying the food and merriment, rememberthose extravaganza this season.May we remember, the season celebrates the birth of the Prince ofpeace, Wonderful Counselor, the Everlasting Father, not the greatdivider of men. The love and grace of God is worthy of our celebrationsand praise, by whatever name we call Him. And the heavenly host sang, ".... On Earth, peace towards men ofgood will." Yours, Harry Boyd(or as CC calls me, "The Rev") from jhat@cbt.net Thu Dec 23 14:51:44 1999 Thu, 23 Dec 1999 14:55:38 -0600 Thanks for the Christmas & the New Year poem:May all on the list have a Merry Christmas & their stocking be stuffedwith reels seats & furrels& snake guides too ,an a clum on the porch togive them something to do??.Jim Hatfield from bob@downandacross.com Thu Dec 23 19:12:38 1999 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) I am using my new drip tube set up with Minwax Helmsman spar urethane.What kind of temp should I be trying to achieve, and does it have to be maintained throughout the draining process? I thinned only the slighestbit and the finishes look a bit thick. I live in Buffalo where it is in the 20s this week, and my setup is in a cool mid 60's temp. basement. Would I better to thin or heat the finish up? Anyone have experience with this varnish? I remember reading that these finishes were made to operate at room temperature. Happy Holidays my friends. If I could say it better than Harry, I would. That was a beautiful thought that I cannot top.Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY from fquinchat@locl.net Thu Dec 23 20:38:21 1999 corsair.locl.net(8.9.0/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA15344 for ;Thu, 23 Dec 1999 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00DB_01BF4D8E.F65ABDE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00DB_01BF4D8E.F65ABDE0 Mat, I tried to send the pictures you requested. Your address had "permanent =fatal errors: flyman35@home.com Please advise. Dennis Bertram ------=_NextPart_000_00DB_01BF4D8E.F65ABDE0 Mat, I tried to send the pictures errors: Please advise. Dennis =Bertram ------=_NextPart_000_00DB_01BF4D8E.F65ABDE0-- from anglport@con2.com Thu Dec 23 20:54:52 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A05E4890374; Thu, 23 Dec 1999 21:54:22 -0500 Bob,I've never taken my varnish's temp (sounds kinda kinky) but I got aribbonheater designed for keeping pipes from freezing and wrapped it around mytank. It's tied in place at top and bottom with string (very hi-tech). Iplug it in several hours before the first dip and keep it plugged in untilI'm done. It's nice and warm to the touch and the varnish seems to flowreal well from the heat. I think you can get a 6 or 10 footer for about $5to 10. I also dip in my cellar, and think it's about as cold as you sayyours is.At least it won't bust you if you decide to try it ;-)Art At 08:08 PM 12/23/1999 -0500, bob maulucci wrote:I am using my new drip tube set up with Minwax Helmsman spar urethane.What kind of temp should I be trying to achieve, and does it have to be maintained throughout the draining process? I thinned only the slighestbit and the finishes look a bit thick. I live in Buffalo where it is in the 20s this week, and my setup is in a cool mid 60's temp. basement. Would I better to thin or heat the finish up? Anyone have experience with this varnish? I remember reading that these finishes were made to operate at room temperature. Happy Holidays my friends. If I could say it better than Harry, I would. That was a beautiful thought that I cannot top.Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY *Some people can tell what time it is by looking at the sun, but I never have been able to make out the numbers.* from maxs@geocities.co.jp Thu Dec 23 21:21:09 1999 bysv01.geocities.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W) with ESMTP id MAA20811 for; Fri, 24 Dec 1999 12:21:04 +0900 (JST) mail.geocities.co.jp(1.3G-GeocitiesJ-3.3) with SMTP id MAA09297 for; Fri, 24 Dec1999 12:21:03 +0900 (JST) Merry Christmas everybody.Greeting from Japan. Max Max Satoh, an oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Maker email: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:$B%P%s%V! from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Thu Dec 23 21:41:49 1999 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_009D_01BF4CCD.A806FC60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_009D_01BF4CCD.A806FC60 I'ld really like to find the rivers that you fish where tippet size =doesn't matter. There are a few streams that I fish where I have watched= First there is the Swift River in central MA. It is a tail water coming =out of the Quabbin Resevoir. The river is very cold and crystal clear. =I've fished it with a 6X tippet and fish actively avoided the fly long =before it got to them. I went to a 7X in the same material and got some =fish but mostly rejects. Then I went to 8X, again in the same material, =and hooked up repeatedly. The test was done with the same fly. I fished the Schroon river in NY and there was a section with a lot of =fish actively rising. I caught a few fish with 6X but when I went to 8X =(same fly) I was hooking up on almost every cast. The Same thing = These days I fish (almost) exclusively with 8X tippet. I lost 2 or 3 =fish this past year due to leader breakage. As for leader length I = Another problem with heavy leader is the knot increases the aparent size= Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 11:27 AMSubject: RE: Another rod finish question] Lets face it, trout are just weird animals and I like it that way, =basically, if you're seen or you mess up the cast it's all over but =unearthly offerings delivered on what apparently looks like a barge =hawser don't seem to be a problem.I'd like to add that I like fine tippets so I break less rod tips when =the fly engages with an unseen structure on the back cast be it a mate's =neck (funny story that) or a twig. A finer tippet will hopefully break =before the tip does.You're right though, inserting a 4X tippet through the eye of a #22 or =#24 fly is harder than threading camels through the eyes of a needles, =just to put it in the perspective of the season. Tony iI have to jump in on this one,if I may......"As far as what the =fish see....." why do we use fine tippet? In my opinion, absolutely =no reason. Only two reasons to use fine tippet in my book - reduction =of drag and tiny hook eyes. Did you ever try to jam 4X tippet through =the eye of a #22 or #24 fly? Browse throught Ralph Cutter's web sit and =read about his scuba experiments ( http://www.flyline.com ). He has =come to the conclusion that I only logically (not imperically) =deduced......the water is full of a bunch of crap and the leader (and =line, in some instances) is just more crap........the trout is not =really able to distinguish it. Drag, movement, splashing and a stick =waving overhead that appears to be about 30 long (to a trout) will = This puts me in the "I want bright ferrules and a shiny finish" =school. But, as has been stated, make it the way you like it. Greg Holland Subject: Re: Another rod finish question] As far as what the fish see, why do we use fine tippet leaders ? =I once caught 22 little trout, in 22 casts, using a royal coachman dry, =on a 7'-6" leader, ahead of a day glow red 5 wt. line ! So often the = Subject: [Fwd: Another rod finish question] Re. line colour, apart from the fact you try not to let the = line at all I've always thought a light coloured line would be = camouflage considering the trout is looking up into the sky = usually brighter than the surrounding area. Having snorkelled while a buddy was fly fishing (I was hoping to = the fly behaved, amongst other things) all lines look black from = against a bright sky. I read somewhere that fish can't see the = blue so I wonder why you don't see blue lines. Have a great holiday Jon Beckton =/************************************************************************=*/ Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It =/************************************************************************= ------=_NextPart_000_009D_01BF4CCD.A806FC60 I'ld really like to find the rivers that you fish = size doesn't matter. There are a few streams that I fish where I have = avoided the fly long before it got to them. I went to a 7X in the same = = fly. I fished the Schroon river in NY and there was a = a lot of fish actively rising. I caught a few fish with 6X but when I = (same fly) I was hooking up on almost every cast. The Same thing = fished the Rapid in ME. These days I fish (almost) exclusively with 8X = 2 or 3 fish this past year due to leader breakage. As for leader length = typically use a 12' to 15' leader. Another problem with heavy leader is the knot = aparent size of the fly. ----- Original Message ----- Young Cc: 'nobler@satx.rr.com' ; Jon.Beckton@asml.nl ; Rodmakers Sent: Thursday, December 23, = AMSubject: RE: Another rod finish = question]Lets face it, trout are just weird animals and I like = way, basically, if you're seen or you mess up the cast it's all over = unearthly offerings delivered on what apparently looks like a barge = don't seem to be a problem.I'd like to add that I like fine = break less rod tips when the fly engages with an unseen structure on = cast be it a mate's neck (funny story that) or a twig. A finer tippet = hopefully break before the tip does.You're right though, inserting = tippet through the eye of a #22 or #24 fly is harder than threading = through the eyes of a needles, just to put it in the perspective of = season.TonyAt 09:10 AM 12/23/99 -0700, Greg = two reasons to use fine tippet in my book - reduction of drag and = scuba experiments ( http://www.flyline.com = deduced......the water is full of a bunch of crap and the leader = in some instances) is just more crap........the trout is not really = that appears to be about 30 long (to a trout) will spook, but not = you like it.Greg Holland Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 6:51 = question]As far as what the fish see, why do we use fine tippet = once caught 22 little trout, in 22 casts, using a royal coachman = a 7'-6" leader, ahead of a day glow red 5 wt. line ! So often = ----- Original Message ----- From: Jon Beckton Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 1:13 = Subject: [Fwd: Another rod finish =question] Having snorkelled while a buddy was fly fishing (I was = the fly behaved, amongst other things) all lines look black = against a bright sky. I read somewhere that fish can't see = blue so I wonder why you don't see blue lines.Have a great holidayJon =Beckton =/*******************************************************************=******/AV Young And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything.= =It/************************************************************= = ------=_NextPart_000_009D_01BF4CCD.A806FC60-- from mschaffer@mindspring.com Fri Dec 24 04:37:16 1999 Having only been on the list for only a short while, yet having met a bunchof really helpful new friends because of the list, I just want to wisheveryone a fun Christmas and a safe, although not necessarily sane, NewYears! Mike (the Atlanta chopstick maker) from chris@artistree.com Fri Dec 24 05:55:39 1999 Can anyone on the other side of the pond help this fellow out?Happy Holidays & Best Regards,Chris Wohlford FRYINGGUY@aol.com wrote: I have a Bamboo Flyrod that was given to me by a friend. The rod wasmade inE by England. I believe its made by Alcock or something like that. It wasmade back in the 1940's and has never been used. I want to learn toflyfish.Do yiu think it would be allright to use this rod. I may also considerselling it to a collector. Can you tell me were I can get information ontherod. I also believe it was made in Redditch England. I am going frommemorysorry the info isn't very clear. Can you help.Thanks from lars32@gateway.net Fri Dec 24 06:32:19 1999 (may be forged)) Bob. I made the dip station right out of Cattanach's book with theexception of the air cleaner. I did add a light bulb to the bottomcompartment and an indoor-outdoor thermometer to monitor both top andbottom. I use Pratt- Lmbert R10 Varmor urethane varnish. The varnish goesonat a temp of 100 degrees F. up to the upper deck which is at 80 dgrees F.with a himidity of 50%. With this dip station static electricity gives me aperfect finish every time. No dust etc.Cattanach is right about this staticelectricity in the plastic pie takes care of the dust. Therefore I have noneed to polish the last coat. It comes out perfect and glossy.-----Original Message----- I am using my new drip tube set up with Minwax Helmsman spar urethane.Whatkind of temp should I be trying to achieve, and does it have to bemaintained throughout the draining process? I thinned only the slighestbitand the finishes look a bit thick. I live in Buffalo where it is in the 20sthis week, and my setup is in a cool mid 60's temp. basement. Would Ibetter to thin or heat the finish up? Anyone have experience with thisvarnish? I remember reading that these finishes were made to operate atroom temperature. Happy Holidays my friends. If I could say it better than Harry, I would.That was a beautiful thought that I cannot top.Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Dec 24 07:42:27 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 24 Dec 1999 07:42:43 -0600 You guys with basements make me green with envy, as we have no suchthingdown here in Texas. I'm getting ready to build a drying box, but amreluctant to go the dipping tank route. Have any here used an air brush, toapply the coats of varnish ? I have allot of experience in spray painting, in most mediums, and note inSinclair's book, that Heddon's rods were done by air brush. Few rods of anymake were done with a better finish. It takes allot of pains to avoidparticles flying around in the air, but I'm just wondering if any use thismethod. GMA----- Original Message ----- Bob,I've never taken my varnish's temp (sounds kinda kinky) but I got a ribbonheater designed for keeping pipes from freezing and wrapped it aroundmytank. It's tied in place at top and bottom with string (very hi-tech). Iplug it in several hours before the first dip and keep it plugged in untilI'm done. It's nice and warm to the touch and the varnish seems to flowreal well from the heat. I think you can get a 6 or 10 footer for about $5to 10.I also dip in my cellar, and think it's about as cold as you say yours is.At least it won't bust you if you decide to try it ;-)Art At 08:08 PM 12/23/1999 -0500, bob maulucci wrote:I am using my new drip tube set up with Minwax Helmsman sparurethane.Whatkind of temp should I be trying to achieve, and does it have to bemaintained throughout the draining process? I thinned only the slighestbitand the finishes look a bit thick. I live in Buffalo where it is in the20sthis week, and my setup is in a cool mid 60's temp. basement. Would Ibetter to thin or heat the finish up? Anyone have experience with thisvarnish? I remember reading that these finishes were made to operateatroom temperature. Happy Holidays my friends. If I could say it better than Harry, I would.That was a beautiful thought that I cannot top.Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY *Some people can tell what time it is by looking at the sun,but I never have been able to make out the numbers.* from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Dec 24 07:43:13 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 24 Dec 1999 07:33:29 -0600 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002C_01BF4DE1.3534DB20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BF4DE1.3534DB20 Exactly my point. We adjust for the conditions at hand, by using longer, =or finer leaders, when needed. If the line made allot of difference, =we'd never catch anything. In over 50 years of many types of fishing, I have seen conditions where =you couldn't retrieve fast enough to keep from catching fish ! Then an =hour later, the only way to get fish was with dynamite ! If you have =paid much attention to the moon phases, you know about fishing being =best during the Perigee. GMA Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 9:41 PMSubject: tippet (Was - Another rod finish question) I'ld really like to find the rivers that you fish where tippet size =doesn't matter. There are a few streams that I fish where I have watched= First there is the Swift River in central MA. It is a tail water =coming out of the Quabbin Resevoir. The river is very cold and crystal =clear. I've fished it with a 6X tippet and fish actively avoided the fly =long before it got to them. I went to a 7X in the same material and got =some fish but mostly rejects. Then I went to 8X, again in the same =material, and hooked up repeatedly. The test was done with the same fly. I fished the Schroon river in NY and there was a section with a lot of =fish actively rising. I caught a few fish with 6X but when I went to 8X =(same fly) I was hooking up on almost every cast. The Same thing = These days I fish (almost) exclusively with 8X tippet. I lost 2 or 3 =fish this past year due to leader breakage. As for leader length I = Another problem with heavy leader is the knot increases the aparent = Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 11:27 AMSubject: RE: Another rod finish question] Lets face it, trout are just weird animals and I like it that way, =basically, if you're seen or you mess up the cast it's all over but =unearthly offerings delivered on what apparently looks like a barge =hawser don't seem to be a problem.I'd like to add that I like fine tippets so I break less rod tips =when the fly engages with an unseen structure on the back cast be it a =mate's neck (funny story that) or a twig. A finer tippet will hopefully =break before the tip does.You're right though, inserting a 4X tippet through the eye of a #22 =or #24 fly is harder than threading camels through the eyes of a =needles, just to put it in the perspective of the season. Tony iI have to jump in on this one,if I may......"As far as what the =fish see....." why do we use fine tippet? In my opinion, absolutely =no reason. Only two reasons to use fine tippet in my book - reduction =of drag and tiny hook eyes. Did you ever try to jam 4X tippet through =the eye of a #22 or #24 fly? Browse throught Ralph Cutter's web sit and =read about his scuba experiments ( http://www.flyline.com ). He has =come to the conclusion that I only logically (not imperically) =deduced......the water is full of a bunch of crap and the leader (and =line, in some instances) is just more crap........the trout is not =really able to distinguish it. Drag, movement, splashing and a stick =waving overhead that appears to be about 30 long (to a trout) will = This puts me in the "I want bright ferrules and a shiny finish" =school. But, as has been stated, make it the way you like it. Subject: Re: Another rod finish question] As far as what the fish see, why do we use fine tippet leaders =? I once caught 22 little trout, in 22 casts, using a royal coachman =dry, on a 7'-6" leader, ahead of a day glow red 5 wt. line ! So often = Subject: [Fwd: Another rod finish question] Re. line colour, apart from the fact you try not to let the = line at all I've always thought a light coloured line would = camouflage considering the trout is looking up into the sky = usually brighter than the surrounding area. Having snorkelled while a buddy was fly fishing (I was hoping = the fly behaved, amongst other things) all lines look black = against a bright sky. I read somewhere that fish can't see the = blue so I wonder why you don't see blue lines. Have a great holiday Jon Beckton =/************************************************************************=*/ Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It =/************************************************************************= ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BF4DE1.3534DB20 Exactly my point. We adjust for the = hand, by using longer, or finer leaders, when needed. If the line made = difference, we'd never catch anything. In over 50 years of many types of fishing, I= conditions where you couldn't retrieve fast enough to keep from catching = Then an hour later, the only way to get fish was with dynamite ! If you = paid much attention to the moon phases, you know about fishing being = the Perigee. GMA ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, December 22, = PMSubject: tippet (Was - Another = question) I'ld really like to find the rivers that you fish = tippet size doesn't matter. There are a few streams that I fish where = watched fish move to the side to avoid a 5X or 6X = = avoided the fly long before it got to them. I went to a 7X in the same = = the same fly. I fished the Schroon river in NY and there was a = with a lot of fish actively rising. I caught a few fish with 6X but = went to 8X (same fly) I was hooking up on almost every cast. The Same = happened when I fished the Rapid in ME. These days I fish (almost) exclusively with 8X = lost 2 or 3 fish this past year due to leader breakage. As for leader = typically use a 12' to 15' leader. Another problem with heavy leader is the knot = aparent size of the fly. ----- Original Message ----- Young Cc: 'nobler@satx.rr.com' ; Jon.Beckton@asml.nl ; Rodmakers Sent: Thursday, December 23, = AMSubject: RE: Another rod = question]Lets face it, trout are just weird animals and I like = way, basically, if you're seen or you mess up the cast it's all over = unearthly offerings delivered on what apparently looks like a barge = don't seem to be a problem.I'd like to add that I like fine = break less rod tips when the fly engages with an unseen structure on = back cast be it a mate's neck (funny story that) or a twig. A finer = will hopefully break before the tip does.You're right though, = a 4X tippet through the eye of a #22 or #24 fly is harder than = camels through the eyes of a needles, just to put it in the = the season.TonyAt 09:10 AM 12/23/99 -0700,Greg = wrote: two reasons to use fine tippet in my book - reduction of drag and = imperically) deduced......the water is full of a bunch of crap and = leader (and line, in some instances) is just more crap........the = stick waving overhead that appears to be about 30 long (to a = Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 6:51 = question]As far as what the fish see, why do we use fine tippet = once caught 22 little trout, in 22 casts, using a royal = on a 7'-6" leader, ahead of a day glow red 5 wt. line ! So = ----- Original Message ----- From: Jon Beckton Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 1:13 = question] Having snorkelled while a buddy was fly fishing (I was = the fly behaved, amongst other things) all lines look = against a bright sky. I read somewhere that fish can't see = blue so I wonder why you don't see blue lines.Have a great holidayJon =Beckton =/*******************************************************************=******/AV Young And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything.= =It/************************************************************= = ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BF4DE1.3534DB20-- from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Dec 24 08:02:22 1999 0000 1999 06:02:19 PST gma, i do a hand rubbed finish and it comes out likeglass. i'm very pleased and have no intention ofchanging, ever. i would recommend it. timothy --- nobler wrote:You guys with basements make me green with envy, aswe have no such thingdown here in Texas. I'm getting ready to build adrying box, but amreluctant to go the dipping tank route. Have anyhere used an air brush, toapply the coats of varnish ? I have allot of experience in spray painting, inmost mediums, and note inSinclair's book, that Heddon's rods were done by airbrush. Few rods of anymake were done with a better finish. It takes allotof pains to avoidparticles flying around in the air, but I'm justwondering if any use thismethod. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Art Port" Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 8:55 PMSubject: Re: varnish temps Bob,I've never taken my varnish's temp (sounds kindakinky) but I got a ribbonheater designed for keeping pipes from freezingand wrapped it around mytank. It's tied in place at top and bottom withstring (very hi-tech). Iplug it in several hours before the first dip andkeep it plugged in untilI'm done. It's nice and warm to the touch and thevarnish seems to flowreal well from the heat. I think you can get a 6or 10 footer for about $5to 10.I also dip in my cellar, and think it's about ascold as you say yours is.At least it won't bust you if you decide to try it;-)Art At 08:08 PM 12/23/1999 -0500, bob maulucci wrote:I am using my new drip tube set up with MinwaxHelmsman spar urethane.Whatkind of temp should I be trying to achieve, anddoes it have to bemaintained throughout the draining process? Ithinned only the slighestbitand the finishes look a bit thick. I live inBuffalo where it is in the20sthis week, and my setup is in a cool mid 60'stemp. basement. Would Ibetter to thin or heat the finish up? Anyone haveexperience with thisvarnish? I remember reading that these finisheswere made to operate atroom temperature. Happy Holidays my friends. If I could say itbetter than Harry, I would.That was a beautiful thought that I cannot top.Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY *Some people can tell what time it is by lookingat the sun,but I never have been able to make out thenumbers.* ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"_________________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Dec 24 08:04:57 1999 0000 1999 06:04:55 PST If you have paid much attention to the moon phases,you know about fishing being best during thePerigee. GMAi prefer voelker's bald spot, even-odd day theory. tjt ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"_________________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Dec 24 08:29:07 1999 1999 06:22:24 PST i've tried a little square of teeri cloth, chamois,foam and paper towel. i like the terri cloth thebest. timothy --- nobler wrote:But how are you applying the varnish ? Dip, brush,or spray ? GMA----- Original Message ----- From: "timothy troester" Sent: Friday, December 24, 1999 8:02 AMSubject: Re: varnish temps gma, i do a hand rubbed finish and it comes outlikeglass. i'm very pleased and have no intention ofchanging, ever. i would recommend it. timothy --- nobler wrote:You guys with basements make me green with envy,aswe have no such thingdown here in Texas. I'm getting ready to build adrying box, but amreluctant to go the dipping tank route. Have anyhere used an air brush, toapply the coats of varnish ? I have allot of experience in spray painting, inmost mediums, and note inSinclair's book, that Heddon's rods were done byairbrush. Few rods of anymake were done with a better finish. It takesallotof pains to avoidparticles flying around in the air, but I'm justwondering if any use thismethod. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Art Port" Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 8:55 PMSubject: Re: varnish temps Bob,I've never taken my varnish's temp (soundskindakinky) but I got a ribbonheater designed for keeping pipes fromfreezingand wrapped it around mytank. It's tied in place at top and bottomwithstring (very hi-tech). Iplug it in several hours before the first dipandkeep it plugged in untilI'm done. It's nice and warm to the touch andthevarnish seems to flowreal well from the heat. I think you can get a6or 10 footer for about $5to 10.I also dip in my cellar, and think it's aboutascold as you say yours is.At least it won't bust you if you decide totry it;-)Art At 08:08 PM 12/23/1999 -0500, bob maulucciwrote:I am using my new drip tube set up withMinwaxHelmsman spar urethane.Whatkind of temp should I be trying to achieve,anddoes it have to bemaintained throughout the draining process? Ithinned only the slighestbitand the finishes look a bit thick. I live inBuffalo where it is in the20sthis week, and my setup is in a cool mid 60'stemp. basement. Would Ibetter to thin or heat the finish up? Anyonehaveexperience with thisvarnish? I remember reading that thesefinisheswere made to operate atroom temperature. Happy Holidays my friends. If I could say itbetter than Harry, I would.That was a beautiful thought that I cannottop.Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY *Some people can tell what time it is bylookingat the sun,but I never have been able to make out thenumbers.* ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" _________________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get your free @yahoo.com address athttp://mail.yahoo.com ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"_________________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Dec 24 08:38:42 1999 0000 1999 06:38:40 PST yes, i use a version of the method in the "planingform" as described by michael sinclair. there,s stillsome tricks i've learned but the finish is good youcan still polish or wax it in the end. timothy --- nobler wrote:Oh, you mean you just rub it in ? I've done some gunstock work like this,with Linspeed, and it worked well. You sure get goodpenetration with thefirst coat ! GMA----- Original Message -----From: "timothy troester" Sent: Friday, December 24, 1999 8:22 AMSubject: Re: varnish temps i've tried a little square of teeri cloth,chamois,foam and paper towel. i like the terri cloth thebest. timothy --- nobler wrote:But how are you applying the varnish ? Dip,brush,or spray ? GMA----- Original Message -----From: "timothy troester" Sent: Friday, December 24, 1999 8:02 AMSubject: Re: varnish temps gma, i do a hand rubbed finish and it comesoutlikeglass. i'm very pleased and have no intentionofchanging, ever. i would recommend it. timothy --- nobler wrote:You guys with basements make me green withenvy,aswe have no such thingdown here in Texas. I'm getting ready tobuild adrying box, but amreluctant to go the dipping tank route. Haveanyhere used an air brush, toapply the coats of varnish ? I have allot of experience in spraypainting, inmost mediums, and note inSinclair's book, that Heddon's rods weredone byairbrush. Few rods of anymake were done with a better finish. Ittakesallotof pains to avoidparticles flying around in the air, but I'mjustwondering if any use thismethod. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Art Port" Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 8:55 PMSubject: Re: varnish temps Bob,I've never taken my varnish's temp (soundskindakinky) but I got a ribbonheater designed for keeping pipes fromfreezingand wrapped it around mytank. It's tied in place at top and bottomwithstring (very hi-tech). Iplug it in several hours before the firstdipandkeep it plugged in untilI'm done. It's nice and warm to the touchandthevarnish seems to flowreal well from the heat. I think you canget a6or 10 footer for about $5to 10.I also dip in my cellar, and think it'saboutascold as you say yours is.At least it won't bust you if you decidetotry it;-)Art At 08:08 PM 12/23/1999 -0500, bob maulucciwrote:I am using my new drip tube set up withMinwaxHelmsman spar urethane.Whatkind of temp should I be trying toachieve,anddoes it have to bemaintained throughout the drainingprocess? Ithinned only the slighestbitand the finishes look a bit thick. I liveinBuffalo where it is in the20sthis week, and my setup is in a cool mid60'stemp. basement. Would Ibetter to thin or heat the finish up?Anyonehaveexperience with thisvarnish? I remember reading that thesefinisheswere made to operate atroom temperature. Happy Holidays my friends. If I could sayitbetter than Harry, I would.That was a beautiful thought that Icannottop.Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY *Some people can tell what time it is bylookingat the sun,but I never have been able to make outthenumbers.* ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" _________________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get your free @yahoo.com address athttp://mail.yahoo.com ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" _________________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get your free @yahoo.com address athttp://mail.yahoo.com ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"_________________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from caneman@clnk.com Fri Dec 24 09:17:46 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Fri, 24 Dec 1999 09:15:45 -0600 Ditto on the basements in this part of Oklahoma. Try to build one here andit ends up being like an indoor pool with a ceiling Bob, After I wrote you the off list mail yesterday, I turned on my set-upand stuck a thermometer in the varnish. THe varnish temp rose to andstayedat 95*. Bob-----Original Message----- ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu You guys with basements make me green with envy, as we have no suchthingdown here in Texas. I'm getting ready to build a drying box, but amreluctant to go the dipping tank route. Have any here used an air brush, toapply the coats of varnish ? I have allot of experience in spray painting, in most mediums, and note inSinclair's book, that Heddon's rods were done by air brush. Few rods ofanymake were done with a better finish. It takes allot of pains to avoidparticles flying around in the air, but I'm just wondering if any use thismethod. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Art Port" Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 8:55 PMSubject: Re: varnish temps Bob,I've never taken my varnish's temp (sounds kinda kinky) but I got aribbonheater designed for keeping pipes from freezing and wrapped it aroundmytank. It's tied in place at top and bottom with string (very hi-tech). Iplug it in several hours before the first dip and keep it plugged inuntilI'm done. It's nice and warm to the touch and the varnish seems to flowreal well from the heat. I think you can get a 6 or 10 footer for about$5to 10.I also dip in my cellar, and think it's about as cold as you say yoursis.At least it won't bust you if you decide to try it ;-)Art At 08:08 PM 12/23/1999 -0500, bob maulucci wrote:I am using my new drip tube set up with Minwax Helmsman sparurethane.Whatkind of temp should I be trying to achieve, and does it have to bemaintained throughout the draining process? I thinned only theslighestbitand the finishes look a bit thick. I live in Buffalo where it is in the20sthis week, and my setup is in a cool mid 60's temp. basement. Would Ibetter to thin or heat the finish up? Anyone have experience with thisvarnish? I remember reading that these finishes were made to operateatroom temperature. from rcurry@ttlc.net Fri Dec 24 09:21:16 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A0B6556C012A; Fri, 24 Dec 1999 10:26:46 -0500 boundary="------------2625BDD4400EC78F044A7996" --------------2625BDD4400EC78F044A7996 PMG,The different respondents are describing different species underradically different conditions. Brook trout in small mountain streamsare opportunistic feeders, I've had them swarm a fly; but the fish ofthe Swift have plenty of feed and little competition, they'll pass upanything even slightly suspicious. [Editorial note: if only the Swiftriver trout would fight when hooked with even half the vigor of a 6"smallmouth, they would be far more interesting. As it is, once hookedthey are relatively docile for their size. Another product of C&R...leash-trained trout.]Personally, I use different tippet sizes according to the type offly, conditions, species, etc. When I am casting Fanwings, I use aheavier tippet, otherwise it twists into a horrible mess; also for fishwith sharp teeth, a heavy tippet; for some streamers even up to size 4,I use a 5x because it gives better action than 3x, etc. ad nauseam. Tony,As the poet said, It is possible to pass a camel through the eye ofa needle, but it comes out as one long bloody string. : )Best regards,Reed PMG wrote: I'ld really like to find the rivers that you fish where tippet sizedoesn't matter. There are a few streams that I fish where I havewatched fish move to the side to avoid a 5X or 6X tippet. First thereis the Swift River in central MA. It is a tail water coming out of theQuabbin Resevoir. The river is very cold and crystal clear. I'vefished it with a 6X tippet and fish actively avoided the fly longbefore it got to them. I went to a 7X in the same material and gotsome fish but mostly rejects. Then I went to 8X, again in the samematerial, and hooked up repeatedly. The test was done with the samefly. I fished the Schroon river in NY and there was a section with alot of fish actively rising. I caught a few fish with 6X but when Iwent to 8X (same fly) I was hooking up on almost every cast. The Samething happened when I fished the Rapid in ME. These days I fish(almost) exclusively with 8X tippet. I lost 2 or 3 fish this past year> dueto leader breakage. As for leader length I typically use a 12' to15' leader. Another problem with heavy leader is the knot increasesthe aparent size of the fly. ----- Original Message -----From: Tony Young Cc: 'nobler@satx.rr.com' ; Jon.Beckton@asml.nl ; RodmakersSent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 11:27 AMSubject: RE: Another rod finish question]Lets face it, trout are just weird animals and I like itthat way, basically, if you're seen or you mess up the castit's all over but unearthly offerings delivered on whatapparently looks like a barge hawser don't seem to be aproblem.I'd like to add that I like fine tippets so I break less rodtips when the fly engages with an unseen structure on theback cast be it a mate's neck (funny story that) or a twig.A finer tippet will hopefully break before the tip does.You're right though, inserting a 4X tippet through the eyeof a #22 or #24 fly is harder than threading camels throughthe eyes of a needles, just to put it in the perspective ofthe season. Tony --------------2625BDD4400EC78F044A7996 PMG, species under radically different conditions. Brook trout in smallmountainstreams are opportunistic feeders, I've had them swarm a fly; but the fishof the Swift have plenty of feed and little competition, they'll pass upanything even slightly suspicious. [Editorial note: if only the Swift rivertrout would fight when hooked with even half the vigor of a 6"smallmouth,they would be far more interesting. As it is, once hooked they arerelativelydocile for their size. Another product of C&R... leash- trained trout.] to the type of fly, conditions, species, etc. When I am casting Fanwings,I use a heavier tippet, otherwise it twists into a horrible mess; also size 4, I use a 5x because it gives better action than 3x, etc. ad nauseam.Tony, through the eye of a needle, but it comes out as one long bloody string.: )Best regards,ReedPMG wrote: I'ld really like tofind the rivers that you fish where tippet size doesn't matter. There area few streams that I fish where I have watched fish move to the side to River in central MA. It is a tail water coming out of the Quabbin Resevoir.The river is very cold and crystal clear. I've fished it with a 6X tippetand fish actively avoided the fly long before it got to them. I went toa 7X in the same material and got some fish but mostly rejects. Then Iwent to 8X, again in the same material, and hooked up repeatedly. The test Schroonriver in NY and there was a section with a lot of fish actively rising.I caught a few fish with 6X but when I went to 8X (same fly) I was hookingup on almost every cast. The Same thing happened when I fished the Rapid with 8X tippet. I lost 2 or 3 fish this past year due to leader breakage. problem with heavy leader is the knot increases the aparent size of the ----- Original Message ----- From:TonyYoung Cc: 'nobler@satx.rr.com'; Jon.Beckton@asml.nl; Rodmakers Sent: Thursday, December 23, 199911:27 AM Subject: RE: Another rod finishquestion] basically, if you're seen or you mess up the cast it's all over but unearthlyofferings delivered on what apparently looks like a barge hawser don'tseem to be a problem.I'd like to add that I like fine tippets so I break less rod tips whenthe fly engages with an unseen structure on the back cast be it a mate'sneck (funny story that) or a twig. A finer tippet will hopefully breakbefore the tip does.You're right though, inserting a 4X tippet through the eye of a #22or #24 fly is harder than threading camels through the eyes of a needles,just to put it in the perspective of the season.Tony --------------2625BDD4400EC78F044A7996-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Dec 24 09:28:32 1999 Fri, 24 Dec 1999 23:28:04 +0800 types="text/plain,text/html";boundary="=====================_19122517==_.ALT" --=====================_19122517==_.ALT Ooooooooh........ :-))) All the best. Tony Tony, As the poet said, It is possible to pass a camel through the eye of aneedle, but it comes out as one long bloody string. : ) Best regards, Reed /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_19122517==_.ALT Ooooooooh........ :-)))All the best. Tony Tony, through the eye of a needle, but it comes out as one long bloody string.: ) Best regards, Reed /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_19122517==_.ALT-- from miler257@gateway.net Fri Dec 24 09:53:46 1999 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF4DF5.41FD2A60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF4DF5.41FD2A60 Does anyone know if the List is back up yet? OBTW, Happy Holidays to all =the List!!! Ed Miller. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF4DF5.41FD2A60 Does anyone know if the List isback = Miller. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF4DF5.41FD2A60-- from cmj@post11.tele.dk Fri Dec 24 09:56:58 1999 (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP +0100 Fra: Bob Nunley Ditto on the basements in this part of Oklahoma. Try to build one hereandit ends up being like an indoor pool with a ceiling Ach, Ye poore Mannie. I almost blush when telling I have some 900 sq.feetof heated anddry cellar. Alass, wife forbids me using all of it for making rods. Womencan be ratherunfeeling at times - I've even offered to move washing machines etc. outinto the garage,and we've only got snow a couple of months per year. But no-no, shepreferred using thespace in the cellar. I regret to inform that my workspace has to beconfined into twolittle rooms, both together measuring some 350 sq. feet. Yes friends, it is a hard world. regards, Carsten from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Dec 24 11:13:49 1999 0000 1999 09:13:46 PST ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"_________________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from dpeaston@wzrd.com Fri Dec 24 11:28:34 1999 At 07:42 AM 12/24/1999 -0600, nobler wrote:You guys with basements make me green with envy, as we have no suchthingdown here in Texas. I'm getting ready to build a drying box, but amreluctant to go the dipping tank route. Have any here used an air brush, toapply the coats of varnish ? I have allot of experience in spray painting, in most mediums, and note inSinclair's book, that Heddon's rods were done by air brush. Few rods ofanymake were done with a better finish. It takes allot of pains to avoidparticles flying around in the air, but I'm just wondering if any use thismethod. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Art Port" Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 8:55 PMSubject: Re: varnish temps Bob,I've never taken my varnish's temp (sounds kinda kinky) but I got aribbonheater designed for keeping pipes from freezing and wrapped it aroundmytank. It's tied in place at top and bottom with string (very hi-tech). Iplug it in several hours before the first dip and keep it plugged in untilI'm done. It's nice and warm to the touch and the varnish seems to flowreal well from the heat. I think you can get a 6 or 10 footer for about $5to 10.I also dip in my cellar, and think it's about as cold as you say yours is.At least it won't bust you if you decide to try it ;-)Art At 08:08 PM 12/23/1999 -0500, bob maulucci wrote:I am using my new drip tube set up with Minwax Helmsman sparurethane.Whatkind of temp should I be trying to achieve, and does it have to bemaintained throughout the draining process? I thinned only theslighestbitand the finishes look a bit thick. I live in Buffalo where it is in the20sthis week, and my setup is in a cool mid 60's temp. basement. Would Ibetter to thin or heat the finish up? Anyone have experience with thisvarnish? I remember reading that these finishes were made to operateatroom temperature. Happy Holidays my friends. If I could say it better than Harry, I would.That was a beautiful thought that I cannot top.Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY *Some people can tell what time it is by looking at the sun,but I never have been able to make out the numbers.* I saw a slide show of bamboo rod making at Winston. They spray theirvarnish. They have a rotating rack that holds a nubmer of rod sections atonce in a spray booth. Happy Holidays to all,Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from KPres375@aol.com Fri Dec 24 11:32:04 1999 Life's Inventory This was written by an 83 year old woman to her friend. I'm reading more and dusting less. I'm sitting in the yard and admiring the view without fussing about the weeds in the garden. I'm spending moretime with my family and friends and less time working. Whenever possible,life should be a pattern of experiences to savor, not to endure. I'm trying to recognize these moments now and cherish them. I'm not "saving" anything;we use our good china and crystal for every special event such as losing a pound, getting the sink unstopped, or the first Amaryllis blossom. I wear my good blazer to the market. My theory is if I look prosperous, I can shell out $28.49 for one small bag of groceries. I'm not saving my good perfume for special parties, but wearing it for clerks in the hardwarestore and tellers at the bank. "Someday" and "one of these days" are losing their grip on my vocabulary. If it's worth seeing or hearing or doing, I want to see and hear and do it now. I'm not sure what others would've done hadthey known that they wouldn't be here for the tomorrow that we all take for granted. I think they would have called family members and a few close friends. They might have called a few former friends to apologize andmend fences for past squabbles. I like to think they would have gone out for a Chinese dinner, or for whatever their favorite food was. I'm guessing; I'll never know. It's those little things left undone that would make me angry if I knew my hours were limited. Angry because I hadn't written certain letters that I intended to write one of these days. Angry and sorry that I didn't tell my husband and parents often enough how much I truly lovethem. I'm trying very hard not to put off, hold back, or save anything that would add laughter and luster to our lives. And every morning when I open my eyes, tell myself that it is special. Every day, every minute, every breath truly is a gift from God. If you received this it is because someone cares to forward this, would it be the first time you didn't do the little thing that would make a difference in your relationships? I can tell you it certainly won't be the last. Take a few minutes to send this to a few people you care about, just to let them know that you're thinking of them. "People say true friends must always hold hands, but true friends don'tneed to hold hands because they know the other hand will always be there." from dmcfall@ODYSSEE.NET Fri Dec 24 12:06:28 1999 Has anybody tried using Crystal Floor Finish for bamboo rods. It appearsto be very rugged and is quite flexible. I'd like to try this so if anyone has info re: dilution and temp I wouldappreciate hearing from them. To one and all a very Merry Christmas and a Happy and Prosperous NewYear. Dave McFall from rsgould@cmc.net Fri Dec 24 12:43:24 1999 Hi Dave,It's possible it is the same stuff I suppose, so I thought I'd let you knowI've tried "Swedish Floor Finish" in the past and found that it did a finejob but was expensive material. It was called"Super Glitza" and sold by acompany called "Glitza American". I understood it to be a ureaformaldehydeliquid finish which required using methyl ethyl keytone to clean thebrushes, isopropyl alcohol to thin, and three days to apply the two coatsplus much dust free ventilation and care since it smells awful andformaldehde is toxic. As far as I can tell the P&L R-10 is just as good.Ray----- Original Message ----- Has anybody tried using Crystal Floor Finish for bamboo rods. It appearsto be very rugged and is quite flexible. I'd like to try this so if anyone has info re: dilution and temp I wouldappreciate hearing from them. To one and all a very Merry Christmas and a Happy and Prosperous NewYear. Dave McFall from rhd360@maine.edu Fri Dec 24 13:07:37 1999 Level 310) via TCPwith SMTP ; Fri, 24 Dec 1999 13:57:12 EST Does anyone have experience with selling rods or rod making equip on ebayvs. the virtual flyshop? I 'm going to upgrade my lathe and get a newSherline, but need to sell some old stuff to do so. One of the e-auctionsseems like a way to do so. May you all have a satin or glossy holiday, whichever is your preference,and if I can find some open water, I just might test the bright winter/darksummer hypothesis, which states that bright ferrules blend well with theflash of the ice flows on the Spruce Pool of the St. George River onChristmas. Best wishes to all, Bob. Robert M. Milardo, Ph.D.Professor of Family Relations University of MaineOrono, ME 04469(207) 581-3128(207) 581-3120 FAX from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Fri Dec 24 14:18:32 1999 On Fri, 24 Dec 1999, Robert Milardo wrote: Does anyone have experience with selling rods or rod making equip onebayvs. the virtual flyshop? Yes, quite a bit. I 'm going to upgrade my lathe and get a newSherline, but need to sell some old stuff to do so. One of the e-auctionsseems like a way to do so. I like the VFS auction better for most FF stuff. Or you can always run aclassified ad if you have a price in mind. May you all have a satin or glossy holiday, whichever is your preference,and if I can find some open water, I just might test the brightwinter/darksummer hypothesis, which states that bright ferrules blend well withtheflash of the ice flows on the Spruce Pool of the St. George River onChristmas. Best wishes to all, Bob. Happy holidays, Bobflysupplies@yahoo.com from flytyr@southshore.com Fri Dec 24 14:39:19 1999 Fri, 24 Dec 1999 14:38:51 -0600 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" There is a Mini Lathe list like this list, that might be a good place tomentionit.I can give you the address off list or post it for you. if interested contactmeoff list. I just bought a new 6 x 20 last week.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Bob Perry wrote: On Fri, 24 Dec 1999, Robert Milardo wrote: Does anyone have experience with selling rods or rod making equip onebayvs. the virtual flyshop? Yes, quite a bit. I 'm going to upgrade my lathe and get a newSherline, but need to sell some old stuff to do so. One of the e-auctionsseems like a way to do so. I like the VFS auction better for most FF stuff. Or you can always run aclassified ad if you have a price in mind. May you all have a satin or glossy holiday, whichever is yourpreference,and if I can find some open water, I just might test the brightwinter/darksummer hypothesis, which states that bright ferrules blend well withtheflash of the ice flows on the Spruce Pool of the St. George River onChristmas. Best wishes to all, Bob. Happy holidays, Bobflysupplies@yahoo.com from cadams46@juno.com Fri Dec 24 16:52:58 1999 17:52:48 EST Do any of you nodeless builders build your tips nodeless? Its been awhile since I read it but I belive Garrison says that the joint isn'tstrong enough to use on the tip section. Just curious. Have a merryChristmas and a happy new year, hope you get to visit some of those longlost relatives.Sincerely, C.R. Adams from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Dec 24 17:05:46 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 24 Dec 1999 16:57:10 -0600 How about patching small dings in an otherwise perfect finished rod. Doyousand with fine wet or dry, and then spot varnish ? I'd appreciate hearingsome opinions, or methods, I should say. GMA----- Original Message ----- Do any of you nodeless builders build your tips nodeless? Its been awhile since I read it but I belive Garrison says that the joint isn'tstrong enough to use on the tip section. Just curious. Have a merryChristmas and a happy new year, hope you get to visit some of thoselonglost relatives.Sincerely,C.R. Adams from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Dec 24 18:27:56 1999 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Chase Funny thing is I have not seen a single failure in tip sections - thereare a lotmore stress (don't believe the stress curves) in the butt section - I haveseen failuresoccur there. I have done some really fine tips and I do not hesitate to gonodeless. My concerns are further down the rod. Chris On Fri, 24 Dec 1999 15:53:58 -0700, Chase R Adams wrote: Do any of you nodeless builders build your tips nodeless? Its been awhile since I read it but I belive Garrison says that the joint isn'tstrong enough to use on the tip section. Just curious. Have a merryChristmas and a happy new year, hope you get to visit some of those longlost relatives.Sincerely, C.R. Adams from caneman@clnk.com Fri Dec 24 22:45:32 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Fri, 24 Dec 1999 22:43:32 -0600 Bob,I sell quite a lot of items on eBay, both fly fishing accy's and general"stuff". Have good success there. Bob-----Original Message----- Does anyone have experience with selling rods or rod making equip onebayvs. the virtual flyshop? I 'm going to upgrade my lathe and get a newSherline, but need to sell some old stuff to do so. One of the e-auctionsseems like a way to do so. May you all have a satin or glossy holiday, whichever is your preference,and if I can find some open water, I just might test the brightwinter/darksummer hypothesis, which states that bright ferrules blend well with theflash of the ice flows on the Spruce Pool of the St. George River onChristmas. Best wishes to all, Bob. Robert M. Milardo, Ph.D.Professor of Family RelationsUniversity of MaineOrono, ME 04469(207) 581-3128(207) 581-3120 FAX from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Dec 25 00:34:50 1999 Sat, 25 Dec 1999 14:34:31 +0800 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" I agree with this. You see more problems when they occur due tosomethinglike using the wrong glue :-( occur in the butt than the tip. I recentlyhad a tip break due to scarf failure but upon inspection the butt of thefailed rod has multiple failures that hadn't become catastrophic. I thinkthe tip failed first simply because the scarf completely failed due to whatI saw upon a post mortem being the glue had not penetrated the bambooandthe joint failed at the glue line where as the scarfs in the butt were onthe way out but at least the glue had sort of wetted out properly uponapplication. I wrote of this pretty much as soon as it happend but just in case anybodyinterested missed it I have subsequently discovered the mob I get (got)theglue from had ceased using Shell Epon which they always had used andstarted using something of their own concoction which worked ok forthemand didn't tell me of the change even though I asked for Shell Epon. Itwasn't until I brought the tins of glue and hardener back and related myopinion of the glue I dicovered the change. They say they didn't thinkthere would be any difference in the glues' performance. Had I used Shell Epon as I thought I was I'm certain there would have beenno failure. I've used it on more than 20 rods and repairs and forlaminations of frames on my boat without problem. Tony At 07:28 PM 12/24/99 -0500, Chris Bogart wrote:Chase Funny thing is I have not seen a single failure in tip sections - thereare a lot more stress (don't believe the stress curves) in the butt section - I haveseen failuresoccur there. I have done some really fine tips and I do not hesitate togo nodeless. My concerns are further down the rod. Chris On Fri, 24 Dec 1999 15:53:58 -0700, Chase R Adams wrote: Do any of you nodeless builders build your tips nodeless? Its been awhile since I read it but I belive Garrison says that the joint isn'tstrong enough to use on the tip section. Just curious. Have a merryChristmas and a happy new year, hope you get to visit some of thoselonglost relatives.Sincerely, C.R. Adams /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from maxs@geocities.co.jp Sat Dec 25 07:34:18 1999 bysv01.geocities.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W) with ESMTP id WAA14366 for; Sat, 25 Dec 1999 22:34:14 +0900 (JST) mail.geocities.co.jp(1.3G-GeocitiesJ-3.3) with SMTP id WAA13337 for; Sat, 25 Dec1999 22:34:13 +0900 (JST) Hello fellow rodmakers, I have one of new ideas though it is not so critical since the topic is onrough angle form. Just laugh (rough?) when you are not interested in this please.I looked at several opinions on rough form in the past RM archives. I hopesome one likesthis idea but the other may not. The reasons for who are not willing to use rough form seem that it wouldnotbe useful since60 degree is not achieved completely, then it's of no use.Cosequently the same thing can be done by final planing form, etc.. Right? Please disregard the case that a strip is thin enough to be able to plane onnormal form. Yes, 90 deg. or 87 deg. rough form is not so effective because we have tokeep holding a strip against the 30 degreewall of the form by one hand. Plane strokes cannot be a long one butseveral shortstrokes. As a result, the strip seldom has correct 60 degree, instead, ournose holes were filled with charcoal dust. Right? The rough angle form I made is called "Slash" which was named after theshape of cutting of the wooden form.I sawed a wood block of 70mm x 35 mm x 150cm into two pieces with theangleof vertical 30 degree by using a band-saw. That's it. And attached 5 voltsand nuts at its side of the form. Bind a strip between two 30 degree walls by tightening the 5 bolts.I placed a rubber belt at the place on 30 deg. walls where a typical butt ortip strips can sit appropriately. The angle of rubber belts and 30 degreewall is making 90 degree holder of a strip for both sides of butt and tip.(One side is for butt and the tip for the other.)Then, I use Japanese style plane (may be a bench plane in your case, or anelectric plane sometimes) toplane the strip which is bound between the"Slash" form. It seems a little troublesome to loosening and tightening bolts and nutsbutit is very easy to plane the strip. The bound strip is stretched straightin the Slash and we can useboth of our hands for planing. So it will assure a long one stroke of theplane with thick shavings. Only twothree long strokes will create a complete 60 degree on one side of thestrip very quickly. My nose is free from charcoal dust then.It will also assure me a straight apex at the center of the strip at thenextstage of planing on the normal 60 deg. V form. Merry Christmas! Max Max Satoh,an oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Makeremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:$B%P%s%V! from utzerath@execpc.com Sat Dec 25 07:39:42 1999 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001B_01BF4EAA.DF9739E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01BF4EAA.DF9739E0 A very merry Christmas and a happy New Year to all in the list!! Thanks = list and maintain the archive (YOU SHOULD PUBLISH THE ARCHIVE ON CD-it's =priceless). I just looked through my old e-mail that I was backing up. I subscribed =in mid March having refinished a couple of production rods and itching =to make a blank to fish in the spring of 2000. I now have several cane =rod (most in process) and a long list of things to improve. Whether or =not I will ever make the perfect cane fly rod, it was worth the effort =so far. Holiday blessings to all FFers. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01BF4EAA.DF9739E0 A very merry Christmas and ahappy = thanks to those who operate the list and maintain the archive (YOU = PUBLISH THE ARCHIVE ON CD-it's priceless). I just looked through my old e-mail = production rods and itching to make a blank to fish in the spring of = I now have several cane rod (most in process) and a long list of things = worth the effort so far. FFers. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01BF4EAA.DF9739E0-- from sats@gte.net Sat Dec 25 07:47:11 1999 I've almost completed the Montague Hi land re-build. I replaced both male ferrules after they cracked, and the female ferrule onthebutt section. I removed the six snake guild and replaced them with sevensnakesand one stripper. Because this is a fishing rod and not a work of art, Iusedstandard chrome guides. Then I took it out to test cast it. Seventy five to 83 ft of DT5F fly line. Myother Montague won't even come close. I guess the stories aboutcompanies usingthe same bamboo and tapers for different prices of rods is true. This rodwasbasically made from inferior hardware and wrapped by someone whowasn't verygood at it. But the basic taper design seems to be sound. Food for though. And yes, it will catch fish. Had it out last week. The only thing left is to put a new finish on the places where I removedthe oldsnake guides. Once it warms up a little here in Florida... (if it were warm I'd be fishing)Merry Christmas to all Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from maxs@geocities.co.jp Sat Dec 25 08:03:41 1999 bysv01.geocities.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W) with ESMTP id XAA14038 for; Sat, 25 Dec 1999 23:03:38 +0900 (JST) mail.geocities.co.jp(1.3G-GeocitiesJ-3.3) with SMTP id XAA20073 for; Sat, 25 Dec1999 23:03:37 +0900 (JST) Hello, Does anyone know if there is such a rod as Hardy's 9' #7.It has wraps on the blank about every inche interval.Ferrule has a pin to prevent rotation of the tip section.It is appreciated if anyone could advise me the rod name and its taper. Max Max Satoh, an oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Maker email: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:$B%P%s%V! from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Dec 25 08:13:46 1999 Friends,A fellow listmember sent me some old rods to work on, and I need alittle help with identification. The most obscure has a NS reel seatwith these markings just below the cork:Hindwine (engraved in script)Registered trademark (much smaller)DE (inside a diamond, with an arrow through both letters The other two rods are old Leonards, a 10 footer and a 9 footer.Both are in need of some serious help. Hundreds of intermediates.Blackened varnish. Few guides, and short sections.Got any ideas on the rod mentioned above? I can't find it inCampbell's book, and haven't tried Sinclair's yet. Thanks in advance,Harry from rsgould@cmc.net Sat Dec 25 11:35:41 1999 Hi Max,Hardy made many, many rod models. It sounds like you have an older modelwith either a "stud" lock joint at the ferrule or a "lockfast" joint at theferrule. Both of these types were used by Hardy. The #7 probably refers tothe line weight . Look on the reel seat and pocket cap for a serial numberstamped in the metal then perhaps we could find a taper for it.Ray---- - Original Message ----- Hello, Does anyone know if there is such a rod as Hardy's 9' #7.It has wraps on the blank about every inche interval.Ferrule has a pin to prevent rotation of the tip section.It is appreciated if anyone could advise me the rod name andits taper. Max Max Satoh,an oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Makeremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:$B%P%s%V! http://members.tripod.com/maxrodhttp://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum- Acropolis/2169 from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Sat Dec 25 12:02:26 1999 Rodmakers Tony-Do you use Shell Epon for your scarfs as well as glueing up your strips??Had the butt section of my first nodeless rod pop a scarf this summer.WhenI sat down to repair it this fall I twisted the butt section to open upthescarf and had three more scarfs pop open. I used Titebond II for thescarfs and Shell Epon the glue up the strips. Best, Dennis from caneman@clnk.com Sat Dec 25 12:18:46 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Sat, 25 Dec 1999 12:16:38 -0600 type="multipart/alternative";boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_02B6_01BF4ED1.E24D2060" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_02B6_01BF4ED1.E24D2060 boundary="----=_NextPart_001_02B7_01BF4ED1.E24D2060" ------=_NextPart_001_02B7_01BF4ED1.E24D2060 Everyone ('cept Harry... he's already seen this!)Need help identifiying this silk I have. It is on a plastic spool, =the label (red and gold) on one end says "Silk Sewing Thread", in small =letters near the center of the label, it says "KNK" then "100" below =that. I assume that means 100 yds or 100 meters. Anyways, on the other=end it KNK around the perimeter of a white label with the number 202 = Years ago I bought several spools of this from someone, and I can't =remember who! It is really fine diameter and i would like to have some = Anyone recognize this, or use it, or know who carries it? HELP!!!! R.L. "Bob" Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Bamboo Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ------=_NextPart_001_02B7_01BF4ED1.E24D2060 Everyone ('cept Harry... he's already seen this!) a plastic spool, the label (red and gold) on one end says "Silk = it? HELP!!!! Rodsht=tp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htmReceived: from mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (mta2.snfc21.pbi.net sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Merry xmas Harry & List! Harry, I have the same rod... it says Hinduvine... not Hindwine... I think thisrefers to Calcutta bamboo cane... Mine also has the DE mark which stands for Diamond Edge... This rod is VERY similar to a Izaak Walton that I own... so I originallythought the lineage is from Thomas&Edwards or Thomas or Edwards orThomas,Edwards & Payne... nonetheless, it's a quality rod. However, look at page 130 of Sinclair's Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbookandyou'll see a drawing of the rod... Soooo, according to Sinclair, we haveChubb/Montague rods... I believe that DE was a trademark of Shapleigh Hardware... I saw aShapleighcatalog for sale on ebay a month or so but I didn't feel like paying $75 forthe book, especially as it wasn't old enough... but I was tempted... Darrell -----Original Message----- Friends,A fellow listmember sent me some old rods to work on, and I need alittle help with identification. The most obscure has a NS reel seatwith these markings just below the cork:Hindwine (engraved in script)Registered trademark (much smaller)DE (inside a diamond, with an arrow through both letters The other two rods are old Leonards, a 10 footer and a 9 footer.Both are in need of some serious help. Hundreds of intermediates.Blackened varnish. Few guides, and short sections.Got any ideas on the rod mentioned above? I can't find it inCampbell's book, and haven't tried Sinclair's yet. Thanks in advance,Harry from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Sat Dec 25 14:11:47 1999 mail02> Garrison also says that his scarf joints are stronger than the bambooitself. That means a properly made nodeless tip is stronger than onehavingnodes. -----Original Message----- Chase Funny thing is I have not seen a single failure in tip sections- there are a lot more stress (don't believe the stress curves) in the butt section - Ihave seen failuresoccur there. I have done some really fine tips and I do not hesitate togo nodeless. My concerns are further down the rod. Chris On Fri, 24 Dec 1999 15:53:58 -0700, Chase R Adams wrote: Do any of you nodeless builders build your tips nodeless? Its been awhile since I read it but I belive Garrison says that the joint isn'tstrong enough to use on the tip section. Just curious. Have a merryChristmas and a happy new year, hope you get to visit some of thoselonglost relatives.Sincerely, C.R. Adams from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Dec 25 14:32:36 1999 Sat, 25 Dec 1999 14:32:12 -0600 63FDBB26A368C732BC121729" --------------63FDBB26A368C732BC121729 Bob,I believe this is Kreinik in Harpersburg WV. Checkyour craft store. I use their materials inFlytying. Merry Christmas.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Bob Nunley wrote: Everyone ('cept Harry... he's already seenthis!) Need help identifiying this silk Ihave. It is on a plastic spool, the label (redand gold) on one end says "Silk Sewing Thread",in small letters near the center of the label,it says "KNK" then "100" below that. I assumethat means 100 yds or 100 meters. Anyways, onthe other end it KNK around the perimeter of awhite label with the number 202 stamped onin. Years ago I bought several spools of this from someone, and I can't remember who! It isreally fine diameter and i would like to havesome more, in Red, Green and White. Anyonerecognize this, or use it, or know who carriesit? HELP!!!! Bob R.L. "Bob" Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Bamboo Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/canean/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm --------------63FDBB26A368C732BC121729 052188A684D03CDF089DBF97" --------------052188A684D03CDF089DBF97 Bob,I believe this is Kreinik in Harpersburg WV. Check your craft store.I use their materials in Flytying. Merry Christmas. Bob Nunley wrote: Everyone on one end says "Silk Sewing Thread", in small letters near the center aroundthe perimeter of a white label with the number 202 stamped on Years ago I bought several spools of this from someone, and I can'tremember Custom Split Bamboo Fly Rods http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm --------------052188A684D03CDF089DBF97 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--------------63FDBB26A368C732BC121729-- from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Dec 25 17:21:46 1999 To All Well it is that time again to exchange and divulge the presentsour "loved ones" gave to their "flyfishing / rodmaker" under the xmas Tree. I got the par for the course fishing basket xmas tree ornament. Thetilted fish (unknown trout type) with hole drilled in it hold the winebottle ontilted angle thingie, the ever popular fishing paraphanalia picture frame,andthe always welcomed "Fish in the Stream Year 2000 Calendar" My wife did give me a wonderful oak chest for my fly tying equipmentlittle does she know that I have way too much stuff. Now how do you havethese people buy you a nice Nr 1 Hoffman grizzly hackle neck to stock the box with for next year? So those who got trouser trouts and such here is you chance to find out you were not alone this XMAS. Merry Christmas Chris from caneman@clnk.com Sat Dec 25 17:44:22 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Sat, 25 Dec 1999 17:42:20 -0600 Chris... only thing I got that was fishing related, was the gift from myMom... A new Lie Nielson scraper plane... What a Mom! Everything else wastools of the automotive sort... Guess when you have a Harley, they figureyou need LOTS of tools LOL bob -----Original Message----- To All Well it is that time again to exchange and divulge the presentsour "loved ones" gave to their "flyfishing / rodmaker" under the xmasTree. I got the par for the course fishing basket xmas tree ornament. Thetilted fish (unknown trout type) with hole drilled in it hold the winebottle ontilted angle thingie, the ever popular fishing paraphanalia picture frame,andthe always welcomed "Fish in the Stream Year 2000 Calendar" My wife did give me a wonderful oak chest for my fly tying equipmentlittle does she know that I have way too much stuff. Now how do you havethese people buy you a nice Nr 1 Hoffman grizzly hackle neck to stock thebox with for next year? So those who got trouser trouts and such here is you chance to findout you were not alone this XMAS. Merry Christmas Chris from maxs@geocities.co.jp Sat Dec 25 18:39:21 1999 bysv01.geocities.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W) with ESMTP id JAA23009 for; Sun, 26 Dec 1999 09:39:17 +0900 (JST) mail.geocities.co.jp(1.3G-GeocitiesJ-3.3) with SMTP id JAA27783 for; Sun, 26 Dec1999 09:39:16 +0900 (JST) Uploaded on my English HP. Max Satoh,an oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Makeremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:$B%P%s%V!$B08@h(B : rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu $BF|;~(B : 1999$BG/(B12$B7n(B25$BF|(B 22:38$B7oL>(B : Rough Angle Form "/" (Slash) Hello fellow rodmakers, I have one of new ideas though it is not so critical since the topic is onrough angle form. Just laugh (rough?) when you are not interested in this please.I looked at several opinions on rough form in the past RM archives. I hopesome one likesthis idea but the other may not. The reasons for who are not willing to use rough form seem that it wouldnotbe useful since60 degree is not achieved completely, then it's of no use.Cosequently the same thing can be done by final planing form, etc.. Right? Please disregard the case that a strip is thin enough to be able to planeonnormal form. Yes, 90 deg. or 87 deg. rough form is not so effective because we have tokeep holding a strip against the 30 degreewall of the form by one hand. Plane strokes cannot be a long one butseveral shortstrokes. As a result, the strip seldom has correct 60 degree, instead, ournose holes were filled with charcoal dust. Right? The rough angle form I made is called "Slash" which was named after theshape of cutting of the wooden form.I sawed a wood block of 70mm x 35 mm x 150cm into two pieces withthe angleof vertical 30 degree by using a band-saw. That's it. And attached 5voltsand nuts at its side of the form. Bind a strip between two 30 degree walls by tightening the 5 bolts.I placed a rubber belt at the place on 30 deg. walls where a typical buttortip strips can sit appropriately. The angle of rubber belts and 30 degreewall is making 90 degree holder of a strip for both sides of butt and tip.(One side is for butt and the tip for the other.)Then, I use Japanese style plane (may be a bench plane in your case, or anelectric plane sometimes) toplane the strip which is bound between the"Slash" form. It seems a little troublesome to loosening and tightening bolts and nutsbutit is very easy to plane the strip. The bound strip is stretched straightin the Slash and we can useboth of our hands for planing. So it will assure a long one stroke of theplane with thick shavings. Only twothree long strokes will create a complete 60 degree on one side of thestrip very quickly. My nose is free from charcoal dust then.It will also assure me a straight apex at the center of the strip at thenextstage of planing on the normal 60 deg. V form. Merry Christmas! Max Max Satoh,an oriental Bamboo Fly Rod Makeremail: maxs@geocities.co.jpHome Page:$B%P%s%V!http://members.tripod.com/maxrodhttp://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum-Acropolis/2169 from knflyrod@home.com Sat Dec 25 18:53:01 1999 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP ;Sat, 25 Dec 1999 16:52:58 -0800 type="multipart/alternative";boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_002B_01BF4F09.B1072A40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BF4F09.B1072A40 boundary="----=_NextPart_001_002C_01BF4F09.B1072A40" ------=_NextPart_001_002C_01BF4F09.B1072A40 Bob, I'm looking at a spool as you described.The thread is from YLI , =#100 indicates it is approx. 000, 202 is the color number for size 000, =#5 is the same color in size "A". Anglers Workshop carries the thread. =Thanks, Ron Huff Sent: Saturday, December 25, 1999 12:16 PMSubject: Silk Everyone ('cept Harry... he's already seen this!)Need help identifiying this silk I have. It is on a plastic =spool, the label (red and gold) on one end says "Silk Sewing Thread", in =small letters near the center of the label, it says "KNK" then "100" =below that. I assume that means 100 yds or 100 meters. Anyways, on the=other end it KNK around the perimeter of a white label with the number = Years ago I bought several spools of this from someone, and I =can't remember who! It is really fine diameter and i would like to have = Anyone recognize this, or use it, or know who carries it? HELP!!!! R.L. "Bob" Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Bamboo Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ------=_NextPart_001_002C_01BF4F09.B1072A40 BODY {COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: arial; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN- LEFT:8em} ----- Original Message ----- Bob =Nunley Makers List Serve Sent: Saturday, December 25, = PMSubject: Silk Everyone ('cept Harry... he's already seen this!) on a plastic spool, the label (red and gold) on one end says "Silk = Thread", in small letters near the center of the label, it says "KNK" = Anyways, on the other end it KNK around the perimeter of a white label = it? HELP!!!! Rodsht=tp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ------=_NextPart_001_002C_01BF4F09.B1072A40-- ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BF4F09.B1072A40 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------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BF4F09.B1072A40-- from caneman@clnk.com Sat Dec 25 19:15:24 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Sat, 25 Dec 1999 19:13:23 -0600 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_03B4_01BF4F0C.186901C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_03B4_01BF4F0C.186901C0 Sorry about sending that background with my "silk search" letter... =Forgot to remove the stationary and signature. Been a long time since I =posted anything but a response! I know that background messes up some =of your puters, and I sincerely apologize. In the Christmas spirit, =just sluff it off to Brain Damage on my part, please! I won't let it =happen again..... well, I probably will, but I won't mean to! Sorry about sending that background with my "silk search"= Bob ------=_NextPart_000_03B4_01BF4F0C.186901C0-- from caneman@clnk.com Sat Dec 25 19:24:31 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Sat, 25 Dec 1999 19:22:29 -0600 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_041F_01BF4F0D.5E61CC60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_041F_01BF4F0D.5E61CC60 Thanks to everyone who responded to my silk thread... no pun intended... =I now know where to get the stuff! Would have been lost without you =guys. Guess that'll teach me to lose track of old invoices! *S* Hope you all had a wonderful Christmas Bob ------=_NextPart_000_041F_01BF4F0D.5E61CC60 Thanks to everyone who responded to my silk thread... no pun = *S* Hope you all had a wonderful Christmas Bob ------=_NextPart_000_041F_01BF4F0D.5E61CC60-- from rcurry@ttlc.net Sat Dec 25 20:19:47 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id AC9A9C0D00EE; Sat, 25 Dec 1999 21:25:30 -0500 Chris,Some interesting stuff:A 16" wooden rainbow trout to hang in my fly tying room.A Fly Fishing 2000 Desk Calendar.12 large vintage containers of line dressing (this should last me until2020).An antique leather rod case for three rods.Best regards,Reed Chris Bogart wrote: To All Well it is that time again to exchange and divulge the presentsour "loved ones" gave to their "flyfishing / rodmaker" under the xmasTree. I got the par for the course fishing basket xmas tree ornament. Thetilted fish (unknown trout type) with hole drilled in it hold the winebottle ontilted angle thingie, the ever popular fishing paraphanalia picture frame,andthe always welcomed "Fish in the Stream Year 2000 Calendar" My wife did give me a wonderful oak chest for my fly tyingequipmentlittle does she know that I have way too much stuff. Now how do youhavethese people buy you a nice Nr 1 Hoffman grizzly hackle neck to stock thebox with for next year? So those who got trouser trouts and such here is you chance to findout you were not alone this XMAS. Merry Christmas Chris from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Sat Dec 25 20:40:26 1999 with SMTP (MDaemon.v3.0.0.0h.R) You must have been a real good boy this year Reed. Joe Chris,Some interesting stuff:A 16" wooden rainbow trout to hang in my fly tying room.A Fly Fishing 2000 Desk Calendar.12 large vintage containers of line dressing (this should last meuntil 2020).An antique leather rod case for three rods.Best regards,Reed Chris Bogart wrote: To All Well it is that time again to exchange and divulge the presentsour "loved ones" gave to their "flyfishing / rodmaker" under the xmasTree. I got the par for the course fishing basket xmas tree ornament.Thetilted fish (unknown trout type) with hole drilled in it hold the winebottle ontilted angle thingie, the ever popular fishing paraphanalia pictureframe, andthe always welcomed "Fish in the Stream Year 2000 Calendar" My wife did give me a wonderful oak chest for my fly tyingequipmentlittle does she know that I have way too much stuff. Now how do youhavethese people buy you a nice Nr 1 Hoffman grizzly hackle neck to stockthebox with for next year? So those who got trouser trouts and such here is you chance tofindout you were not alone this XMAS. Merry Christmas Chris from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Dec 25 21:49:11 1999 Sat, 25 Dec 1999 19:48:35 -0800 Chris,Some time ago I got the infamous trout socks. Who thought of thosesilly thingsanyway? finddozens of uses for it in rodmaking. What I wonder is: What presents did some of us buy ourselves forChristmas??In another post I mentioned two old Leonards, from me to myself, withlove. Also anew kickboat on its way. Anybody else willing to confess? HarryChris Bogart wrote: To All Well it is that time again to exchange and divulge the presentsour "loved ones" gave to their "flyfishing / rodmaker" under the xmasTree. I got the par for the course fishing basket xmas tree ornament. Thetilted fish (unknown trout type) with hole drilled in it hold the winebottle ontilted angle thingie, the ever popular fishing paraphanalia picture frame,andthe always welcomed "Fish in the Stream Year 2000 Calendar" My wife did give me a wonderful oak chest for my fly tyingequipmentlittle does she know that I have way too much stuff. Now how do youhavethese people buy you a nice Nr 1 Hoffman grizzly hackle neck to stock thebox with for next year? So those who got trouser trouts and such here is you chance to findout you were not alone this XMAS. Merry Christmas Chris from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Sun Dec 26 07:41:39 1999 What I wonder is: What presents did some of us buy ourselves forChristmas?? I bought a set of Planing Forms... Some assembly required Paul ----- Original Message ----- [snip] from gjones1@ix.netcom.com Sun Dec 26 11:33:28 1999 If any of you are looking for a source for stabilized wood for reel seatsmight want to check out this site. http://www.stabilizedwood.com/ Gary Jones from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Dec 26 11:41:05 1999 Mon, 27 Dec 1999 01:40:51 +0800 Rodmakers Yes, I did or at least I've been using the same glue for the scarves as thesplines. It seems this isn't necessary as most appear to be using TitebondII for the scarves and the Epon for the splines. I just don't like mixingdifferent glues for reasons of wanting to avoid problems when heatstraightening as well as possible problems arising due to future potentialmoisture problems but that's just me. Titebond II isn't a glue that's easyto just buy off the shelf here and the only bottle I've ever had Don sentme so I'm just not all that familiar with it though everybody who is seemsto find it works with Epon fine. Tony At 12:58 PM 12/25/99 -0500, Dennis Higham wrote:Tony-Do you use Shell Epon for your scarfs as well as glueing up your strips??Had the butt section of my first nodeless rod pop a scarf this summer.WhenI sat down to repair it this fall I twisted the butt section to open upthescarf and had three more scarfs pop open. I used Titebond II for thescarfs and Shell Epon the glue up the strips. Best, Dennis /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from sniderja@email.uc.edu Sun Dec 26 12:50:45 1999 I bought my wife a new auto, myself a Morgan Hand Mill.J. Snider At 09:48 PM 12/25/99 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote:Chris,Some time ago I got the infamous trout socks. Who thought of those silly thingsanyway? I'll finddozens of uses for it in rodmaking. What I wonder is: What presents did some of us buy ourselves for Christmas??In another post I mentioned two old Leonards, from me to myself, withlove. Also anew kickboat on its way. Anybody else willing to confess? HarryChris Bogart wrote: To All Well it is that time again to exchange and divulge the presentsour "loved ones" gave to their "flyfishing / rodmaker" under the xmasTree. I got the par for the course fishing basket xmas tree ornament. Thetilted fish (unknown trout type) with hole drilled in it hold the wine bottle ontilted angle thingie, the ever popular fishing paraphanalia pictureframe, andthe always welcomed "Fish in the Stream Year 2000 Calendar" My wife did give me a wonderful oak chest for my fly tyingequipmentlittle does she know that I have way too much stuff. Now how do youhavethese people buy you a nice Nr 1 Hoffman grizzly hackle neck to stockthebox with for next year? So those who got trouser trouts and such here is you chance to findout you were not alone this XMAS. Merry Christmas Chris from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Dec 26 12:59:08 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Sun, 26 Dec 1999 12:59:26 -0600 WOW ! NO DOUBLE WOW ! GMA----- Original Message ----- I bought my wife a new auto, myself a Morgan Hand Mill.J. Snider At 09:48 PM 12/25/99 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote:Chris,Some time ago I got the infamous trout socks. Who thought of thosesilly thingsanyway? I'llfinddozens of uses for it in rodmaking. What I wonder is: What presents did some of us buy ourselves forChristmas??In another post I mentioned two old Leonards, from me to myself, withlove.Also anew kickboat on its way. Anybody else willing to confess? HarryChris Bogart wrote: To All Well it is that time again to exchange and divulge the presentsour "loved ones" gave to their "flyfishing / rodmaker" under the xmasTree. I got the par for the course fishing basket xmas tree ornament.Thetilted fish (unknown trout type) with hole drilled in it hold the winebottle ontilted angle thingie, the ever popular fishing paraphanalia pictureframe,andthe always welcomed "Fish in the Stream Year 2000 Calendar" My wife did give me a wonderful oak chest for my fly tyingequipmentlittle does she know that I have way too much stuff. Now how do youhavethese people buy you a nice Nr 1 Hoffman grizzly hackle neck to stockthebox with for next year? So those who got trouser trouts and such here is you chance tofindout you were not alone this XMAS. Merry Christmas Chris from j.l.arnold.rods@worldnet.att.net Sun Dec 26 15:22:19 1999 (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP Sun, 26 Dec 1999 21:21:47 +0000 I received a transmission that slips going into 3rd earlier in the week, andon Christmas day a bad dishwasher pump. Merry Christmas to me! I have had all of the Christmas cheer I can stand for this year. I amlooking forward to this Y2K crap. Jeff ----- Original Message ----- To All Well it is that time again to exchange and divulge the presentsour "loved ones" gave to their "flyfishing / rodmaker" under the xmasTree. I got the par for the course fishing basket xmas tree ornament. Thetilted fish (unknown trout type) with hole drilled in it hold the winebottle ontilted angle thingie, the ever popular fishing paraphanalia picture frame,andthe always welcomed "Fish in the Stream Year 2000 Calendar" My wife did give me a wonderful oak chest for my fly tying equipmentlittle does she know that I have way too much stuff. Now how do youhavethese people buy you a nice Nr 1 Hoffman grizzly hackle neck to stock thebox with for next year? So those who got trouser trouts and such here is you chance to findout you were not alone this XMAS. Merry Christmas Chris from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Sun Dec 26 18:03:12 1999 (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP Mon, 27 Dec 1999 00:02:38 +0000 I got the infamous trout socks so they must still be around. jack from kenmannjr@netzero.net Sun Dec 26 19:48:53 1999 kenmann)(209.244.81.144) boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF4FE3.18E38E40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF4FE3.18E38E40 I am looking to purchase a Lie-Nielsen plane and would like to hear from =the list if they are worth the investment. In particular, they offer a =Low Angle Adjustable Mouth block plane with an optional Rod Maker's =Groove, has anyone used this plane and is there any feedback out there. thanks...klm ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF4FE3.18E38E40 I am looking to purchase a = particular, they offer a Low Angle Adjustable Mouth block plane with an = Rod Maker's Groove, has anyone used this plane and is there any feedback = there. thanks...klm ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF4FE3.18E38E40-- __________________________________________NetZero - Defenders of the Free WorldGet your FREE Internet Access and Email athttp://www.netzero.net/download/index.html from bob@downandacross.com Sun Dec 26 20:19:35 1999 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) boundary="=====================_42221023==_.ALT" --=====================_42221023==_.ALT I only know of the scraper (212). It is a great tool. I have used it a lot think it is well made and aesthetically pleasing too.However, a really sharp I am looking to purchase a Lie-Nielsen plane and would like to hear from the list if they are worth the investment. In particular, they offer a Low Angle Adjustable Mouth block plane with an optional Rod Maker's Groove, has anyone used this plane and is there any feedback out there. thanks...klm Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY -- =====================_42221023==_.ALT I only know of the scraper (212). It is a great tool. I have used it alot for every thing from final dimensions to scraping the enamel off. Ireally think it is well made and aesthetically pleasing too. However, a really sharp <$50 Record 9.5 can shave off final .001's andyou can sand off the enamel. You can also groove your plane sole alaFrank N's site. As I am now deep into rod two (maybe you shouldn't belistening to my advice) I am looking around and seeing a lot of cashblown on equipment. I think I would now have traded buying my scraper fora bunch of Hock blades and another nice Record 9.5. (Please no inquiries,you guys) My .02,Bob Maulucci At 08:52 PM 12/26/99 -0500, you wrote:I am looking to purchase aLie- Nielsen plane and would like to hear from the list if they are worth Mouth block plane with an optional Rod Maker's Groove, has anyone usedthis plane and is there any feedback out there. thanks...klmBob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY --=====================_42221023==_.ALT-- from caneman@clnk.com Sun Dec 26 20:20:18 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Sun, 26 Dec 1999 20:18:14 -0600 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_04F6_01BF4FDE.4A19C4C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_04F6_01BF4FDE.4A19C4C0 Ken,Don't know about their low angle plane, but I use a Lie Nielson =Scraper (have two now, Got one for Christmas, also) and I wouldn't trade =em for any other scraper I have ever used. Simply, they are great! =Before I had the first L-N, I used a Stanley #112, but the LN is so much =easier to use and control then the 112. I highly recommend it. Bob-----Original Message-----From: Ken Mann Date: Sunday, December 26, 1999 7:48 PMSubject: Lie-Nielsen Plane I am looking to purchase a Lie-Nielsen plane and would like to hear = from the list if they are worth the investment. In particular, they =offer a Low Angle Adjustable Mouth block plane with an optional Rod =Maker's Groove, has anyone used this plane and is there any feedback out =there. thanks...klm ------=_NextPart_000_04F6_01BF4FDE.4A19C4C0 Ken, about = Christmas, also) and I wouldn't trade em for any other scraper I have = Bob -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sunday, December 26, 1999 7:48 PMSubject: Lie-Nielsen= PlaneI am looking to purchase a = and would like to hear from the list if they are worth the = In particular, they offer a Low Angle Adjustable Mouth block plane = optional Rod Maker's Groove, has anyone used this plane and is there = feedback out there. thanks...klm ------=_NextPart_000_04F6_01BF4FDE.4A19C4C0-- from dmcfall@ODYSSEE.NET Sun Dec 26 20:28:50 1999 I won the prize - my order is being placed for Fly Tyer's BenchsideReference. I also got the flisherman's playing cards.I am also at work refinishing a 9'6" salmon rode. Having lots of fun. Merry Xmas and All the Best for the New Year. Dave M from caneman@clnk.com Sun Dec 26 20:34:59 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Sun, 26 Dec 1999 20:32:54 -0600 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0520_01BF4FE0.566FCF60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0520_01BF4FE0.566FCF60 Bob,We have to blow money on equipment and tools... It's a RULE!!! Tools =are toys... This is a game... He who dies owning the most toys WINS! Bob-----Original Message-----From: bob maulucci Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Sunday, December 26, 1999 8:20 PMSubject: Re: Lie-Nielsen Plane I only know of the scraper (212). It is a great tool. I have used it =a lot for every thing from final dimensions to scraping the enamel off. = However, a really sharp Bob, blow = equipment and tools... It's a RULE!!! Tools are toys... This is a = dies owning the most toys WINS! Bob -----Original = kenmannjr@netzero.net rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sunday, December 26, 1999 8:20 PMSubject: Re: = PlaneI only know of the scraper (212). It is a = tool. I have used it a lot for every thing from final dimensions to = the enamel off. I really think it is well made and aesthetically = too. However, a really sharp <$50 Record 9.5 can shave off = .001's and you can sand off the enamel. You can also groove your = ala Frank N's site. As I am now deep into rod two (maybe you = listening to my advice) I am looking around and seeing a lot of cash = on equipment. I think I would now have traded buying my scraper for = of Hock blades and another nice Record 9.5. (Please no inquiries, = My .02,Bob MaulucciAt 08:52 PM 12/26/99 -0500, wrote:I am looking to purchase a = plane and would like to hear from the list if they are worth the = block plane with an optional Rod Maker's Groove, has anyone used = plane and is there any feedback out there.thanks...klmBob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY = ------=_NextPart_000_0520_01BF4FE0.566FCF60-- from channer@netscape.net Sun Dec 26 21:12:24 1999 0000 web-mailer(M3.3.1.96)on Mon Dec 27 03:12:22 GMT 1999 "Ray Gould" wrote:Hi Dave,It's possible it is the same stuff I suppose, so I thought I'd let youknowI've tried "Swedish Floor Finish" in the past and found that it did a finejob but was expensive material. It was called"Super Glitza" and sold by acompany called "Glitza American". I understood it to be a ureaformaldehydeliquid finish which required using methyl ethyl keytone to clean thebrushes, isopropyl alcohol to thin, and three days to apply the two coatsplus much dust free ventilation and care since it smells awful andformaldehde is toxic. As far as I can tell the P&L R-10 is just as good.RayRay and anyone else tempted;If you find any Glitsa, don't use it without a paint respirator!!!!! I haveknown lots of old floor finishers and they were all burn-outs, this stuffwillcause brain damage faster than anything except a hammer. Most stateshavebanned it and most floor finishers won't go near the stuff any more.Formaldehyde is about the most harmless ingedient in it, the list readslike alist of known carcinogens and volatiles banned by the EPA.John----- Original Message -----From: McFall David Sent: Friday, December 24, 1999 10:05 AMSubject: Crystal Floor Finish Has anybody tried using Crystal Floor Finish for bamboo rods. Itappearsto be very rugged and is quite flexible. I'd like to try this so if anyone has info re: dilution and temp I wouldappreciate hearing from them. To one and all a very Merry Christmas and a Happy and Prosperous NewYear. Dave McFall ____________________________________________________________________Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today athttp://webmail.netscape.com. from flyman35@home.com Sun Dec 26 21:14:26 1999 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP ;Sun, 26 Dec 1999 19:14:22 -0800 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Ah, Bob- He who dies with the most toys still DIES... Matt from cphisey@neca.com Sun Dec 26 21:46:16 1999 Having recieved the trout and bass socks in years past,this year the Jollyold elf brought the following:A "Eat Sleep Fish" wall hanger w/troutA Bull/trout clone ornament entitled "Bullhead"A waterproof watch with leaping trout faceA framed enlargement of a photo of yours truly with aRainbow trout I caught at the ripe old age of 8 yrs(a monster caught near asewer pipe draining into Androscoggin River in NH-my local hot spot backthen)Charlie Hisey PS Got myself a F.E.Thomas cause no one else would! from martinjensen@home.com Sun Dec 26 22:06:50 1999 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP 0800 Haven't really gotten it yet but I am working on getting a Lathe / Millingmachine for building my real seat components. When I do it will be closeenough to Christmas to count. I spent the last three days cleaning andre-arranging my shop in order to make room for it. Now it is off to thedump...Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- I won the prize - my order is being placed for Fly Tyer's BenchsideReference. I also got the flisherman's playing cards.I am also at work refinishing a 9'6" salmon rode. Having lots of fun. Merry Xmas and All the Best for the New Year. Dave M from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Sun Dec 26 22:25:56 1999 Yes, This is certainly true. However, If those forcasting the end of theworld next week are correct then we're all dead. Further if the one withthemost toys does wins I want to make sure I'm in the running. I tried the above logic on my wife last week when two new rods and a cellphone arrived last week. I'm hoping for a more sympathic audience here. paul ----- Original Message ----- Ah, Bob- He who dies with the most toys still DIES... Matt from maxs@geocities.co.jp Sun Dec 26 22:26:52 1999 bysv01.geocities.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W) with ESMTP id NAA00338; Mon, 27Dec 1999 13:26:47+0900 (JST) mail.geocities.co.jp(1.3G-GeocitiesJ-3.3) with SMTP id NAA10998; Mon, 27 Dec 1999 13:26:46+0900 (JST) I am looking to purchase a Lie-Nielsen plane and would like to hear fromthe list if they are worth the investment. >In particular, they offer a LowAngle Adjustable Mouth block plane with an optional Rod Maker's Groove,hasanyone used this plane and is there any feedback out there. thanks...klm Ken, I am using both of Lie-Nielsen's scraper and standard adjustable mouthblockplane with groove.Both are very nice planes but a little expensive. As to grooved plane, it will result in a little thicker dimension of stripsthan the form setting. So, I need to adjust my planing narrower for thevariance.But goodness is the variance is almost same through a section for butt andtip. This is the point which will make it easy to adjust planing form withthe same variance. Some of us are making gooved sole by attaching thin metal plates (such asthin brass plate) on both side of thebottom of Stanley's plane. It costs less. When you can afford, L-N is a good choice, IMHO. Max from rsgould@cmc.net Sun Dec 26 22:32:18 1999 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001E_01BF4FE0.44975420" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BF4FE0.44975420 Hi KenThe Lie Nielson scraper plane is a dandy!Ray Sent: Sunday, December 26, 1999 5:52 PMSubject: Lie-Nielsen Plane I am looking to purchase a Lie-Nielsen plane and would like to hear = from the list if they are worth the investment. In particular, they =offer a Low Angle Adjustable Mouth block plane with an optional Rod =Maker's Groove, has anyone used this plane and is there any feedback out =there. thanks...klm ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BF4FE0.44975420 Hi Ken dandy!Ray ----- Original Message ----- Mann = Sent: Sunday, December 26, 1999= PMSubject: Lie-Nielsen =Plane I am looking to purchase a = and would like to hear from the list if they are worth the = In particular, they offer a Low Angle Adjustable Mouth block plane = optional Rod Maker's Groove, has anyone used this plane and is there = feedback out there. thanks...klm ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BF4FE0.44975420-- from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon Dec 27 00:01:21 1999 I recently bought one of the new Lee Valley "Veritas" low angle planes. Have used it on the last 4 rods with excellent results. Can't say enoughgood things about it. I ground the blade so that I have a 65 degree anglebetween the form and the cutting edge. Conventional thinking says that alow angle plane tends to tear nodes, but I haven't found that to be truewith the "Veritas" plane. ---------- Hi KenThe Lie Nielson scraper plane is a dandy!Ray----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Mann Sent: Sunday, December 26, 1999 5:52 PMSubject: Lie-Nielsen Plane I am looking to purchase a Lie-Nielsen plane and would like to hear fromthe list if they are worth the investment. In particular, they offer a LowAngle Adjustable Mouth block plane with an optional Rod Maker's Groove,hasanyone used this plane and is there any feedback out there. thanks...klm from darrell@rockclimbing.org Mon Dec 27 03:04:59 1999 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for Hope you had a Merry Xmas, Matt... My motto is a little different... now... He who has the most fun along the way WINS! You can have all the toys in the world and be miserable... Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com -----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Ah, Bob- He who dies with the most toys still DIES... Matt from anglport@con2.com Mon Dec 27 07:00:27 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A2B7D2E0374; Mon, 27 Dec 1999 07:59:35 -0500 Martin,"...Now it is off to the dump..." Would that be to unload the sweepings or is that your source ofmachinery?If the latter, I sure would like to go dumpster-diving with YOU someday!Mybest find so far was a Delta bench-top drill press in the woods near myhouse. Needed a good cleaning (and a motor), but otherwise it has servedmewell.Never look a gift horse....*G*Art *Some people can tell what time it is by looking at the sun, but I never have been able to make out the numbers.* from lars32@gateway.net Mon Dec 27 07:48:59 1999 You can have much fun in the world and still be miserable--- peace andserenity is difficult to find within --------- Impossible to find without !----- Original Message----- Hope you had a Merry Xmas, Matt... My motto is a little different... now... He who has the most fun along the way WINS! You can have all the toys in the world and be miserable... Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu TROPPSent: Sunday, December 26, 1999 7:19 PM Cc: bob@downandacross.com; kenmannjr@netzero.net;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Lie-Nielsen Plane Ah, Bob- He who dies with the most toys still DIES... Matt from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Dec 27 08:04:59 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Mon, 27 Dec 1999 07:56:17 -0600 Amen to that Darrell ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Hope you had a Merry Xmas, Matt... My motto is a little different... now... He who has the most fun along the way WINS! You can have all the toys in the world and be miserable... Darrellwww.bamboorods.homepage.com -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu TROPPSent: Sunday, December 26, 1999 7:19 PM Cc: bob@downandacross.com; kenmannjr@netzero.net;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Lie-Nielsen Plane Ah, Bob- He who dies with the most toys still DIES... Matt from amcsmith@nlis.net Mon Dec 27 08:56:30 1999 0500 hello all happy holidays! does anyone have the dates forgrayrock this year yet, please post if you do chris smith po box 33 poter me from morten@flash.net Mon Dec 27 09:30:02 1999 Ken Mann wrote: I am looking to purchase a Lie-Nielsen plane and would like to hear from the list if they are worth the investment. In particular, theyoffer a Low Angle Adjustable Mouth block plane with an optional RodMaker's Groove, has anyone used this plane and is there any feedbackout there. thanks...klmKen, I have used the L-N low angle adjustable block plane for 14 rodsnow and I love it. I think this is the perfect plane for planing bamboo.I also own a Record 9 1/2 and a Stanley 60 1/2, but neither even comesclose.Morten -- 3119 Georgia Pine Dr.Spring, TX 77373(281) 353 5725http://www.flash.net/~morten from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Mon Dec 27 09:32:11 1999 mail02> rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu "As to grooved plane, it will result in a little thicker dimension of stripsthan the form setting. So, I need to adjust my planing narrower for thevariance." I keep seeing comments to this effect in discussions of planes withgroovedsoles. I'm new at this but it seems to me this way of using them defeatstheir main advantage, at least in final planing. Not to say there's only onegood way to do things, but maybe I'm missing the point so let me describewhat I mean and see how it fares on the list. exactly at the surface of the form, it becomes possible to cut the bambooexactly even with the form surface without the risk of driving the bladeinto the form itself. Furthermore, the raised edges of the plane solemaintain the plane (and blade) in a horizontal position as you reach thesurface. You can press down firmly on the plane without forcing the edgeofthe blade into the metal (or wood), and instead of having to keep ithorizontal by touch, the shape of the sole itself takes care of this foryou. It might be said that adjustment of the blade to be exactly at the surfaceof the form is touchy, but that's no less true of any other position. If youadjust it slightly above the surface, as the quote above suggests, you'llstill get uneven results (and never know how much to compensate insettingyour form) unless you're careful to position the blade in the same wayeachtime. It actually is not difficult to position the blade so that it barelytouches the surface on which the plane sits. That's a lot easier thanmakingsure it's 0.0025" (or whatever) above the surface each time. So I don't get why you'd use a plane like this with the blade set short ofthe surface. BK -----Original Message----- Sent: Sunday, December 26, 1999 10:26 PM Subject: RE: Lie-Nielsen Plane I am looking to purchase a Lie-Nielsen plane and would like to hearfromthe list if they are worth the investment. >In particular, theyoffer a LowAngle Adjustable Mouth block plane with an optional Rod Maker'sGroove, hasanyone used this plane and is there any feedback out there. thanks...klm Ken, I am using both of Lie-Nielsen's scraper and standard adjustablemouth blockplane with groove.Both are very nice planes but a little expensive. As to grooved plane, it will result in a little thicker dimension ofstripsthan the form setting. So, I need to adjust my planing narrower forthevariance.But goodness is the variance is almost same through a section forbutt andtip. This is the point which will make it easy to adjust planingform withthe same variance. Some of us are making gooved sole by attaching thin metal plates(such asthin brass plate) on both side of thebottom of Stanley's plane. It costs less. When you can afford, L-N is a good choice, IMHO. Max from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Dec 27 09:42:52 1999 Friends,I'm helping build a special bamboo rod. It will be a consolationprize in a fundraising effort for Youth/FlyFishing causes. First prizeis a trip to the Bahamas, or something like that. The total amount ofmoney raised will go to kid's causes, and isn't a great big deal, somefew hundred dollarsHere's where I need your help. Do you know any youth/ff causes thatmight really be helped with the infusion of a little money? If so,please let me know. I'll do the research. Thanks,Harry from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Dec 27 09:49:01 1999 Mon, 27 Dec 1999 07:48:56 -0800 Barry,The chief advantage most people see in a grooved sole plane is lessfrequentneed for sharpening the blade, because the blade never hits steel. Myexperience is that bamboo itself dulls blades plenty fast. Hitting theformshas never been a big problem for me. I just go slow, don't get in a bighurry.If you're in a hurry, trying to make a production schedule, rodmakingbecomeswork. And I enjoy it too much to let it become work! Harry from dati@selway.umt.edu Mon Dec 27 10:26:19 1999 09:26:16 -0700 100000@selway.umt.edu> Happy Holidays all! I just received a dial indicator, it is an inport but will work for abeginner. Yet, I am having a hard time removing the interchangeable pointso that I can replace it with the starret 60 degree point I purchased.I guess I fear I will twist something apart inside if I take a pair ofneedle nose to the point to unscrew it, any ideas? Also, there are twoknobs, one to allow the face to move but what is the upper most knob for? Thanks for your helpDarin Law from gholland@navsys.com Mon Dec 27 12:06:00 1999 Rodmakers boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01BF5095.C7B64A68" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF5095.C7B64A68 I was careful to preface my post with "most of the time". However, I havefished the Swift and I understand the dilemma you face there. Oneobservation I would make, however, is that you are possibly too quick inmaking you assessment that the trout are leader-shy in the traditionalwayof thinking. You are probably correct in deciding to use 8X in the Swift,but the reason may be different. It is possible that you were still gettingmicro-drag on your fly and were unaware....this happens frequently,especially when nymphing (some people don't realize that drag does affectyour nymphing). My most revealing study has been on the San Juan and S. Platte. Tailwatersjust like the Swift. I was testing the flourocarbon craze and found that itdecreased my success because of its extra stiffness. It is supposed to beinvisible vs. standard nylon but I found I had greater success with 5X nylonthan 5X flourocarbon. I think that this is because of drag introduced bythe stiffness of the f.carbon. I haven't ever fished springcreeks and I know their reputation is that fishare leader shy........I won't judge that situation 'til I've tried it, buton the rivers I have fished (tailwaters) that are similar my experiencepoints toward presentation, not leader visibility. Cheers, Greg Holland -----Original Message----- I'ld really like to find the rivers that you fish where tippet size doesn'tmatter. There are a few streams that I fish where I have watched fishmoveto the side to avoid a 5X or 6X tippet. First there is the Swift River in central MA. It is a tail water coming outof the Quabbin Resevoir. The river is very cold and crystal clear. I'vefished it with a 6X tippet and fish actively avoided the fly long before itgot to them. I went to a 7X in the same material and got some fish butmostly rejects. Then I went to 8X, again in the same material, and hookeduprepeatedly. The test was done with the same fly. I fished the Schroon river in NY and there was a section with a lot of fishactively rising. I caught a few fish with 6X but when I went to 8X (samefly) I was hooking up on almost every cast. The Same thing happened whenIfished the Rapid in ME. These days I fish (almost) exclusively with 8X tippet. I lost 2 or 3 fishthis past year due to leader breakage. As for leader length I typically usea 12' to 15' leader. Another problem with heavy leader is the knot increases the aparent sizeofthe fly. ----- Original Message ----- Jon.Beckton@asml.nl ; Rodmakers Lets face it, trout are just weird animals and I like it that way,basically, if you're seen or you mess up the cast it's all over butunearthly offerings delivered on what apparently looks like a bargehawserdon't seem to be a problem.I'd like to add that I like fine tippets so I break less rod tips when thefly engages with an unseen structure on the back cast be it a mate's neck(funny story that) or a twig. A finer tippet will hopefully break before thetip does.You're right though, inserting a 4X tippet through the eye of a #22 or #24fly is harder than threading camels through the eyes of a needles, just toput it in the perspective of the season. Tony At 09:10 AM 12/23/99 -0700, Greg Holland wrote: iI have to jump in on this one,if I may......"As far as what the fishsee....." why do we use fine tippet? In my opinion, absolutely no reason.Only two reasons to use fine tippet in my book - reduction of drag and tinyhook eyes. Did you ever try to jam 4X tippet through the eye of a #22 or#24 fly? Browse throught Ralph Cutter's web sit and read about his scubaexperiments ( http://www.flyline.com ). He hascome to the conclusion that I only logically (not imperically)deduced......the water is full of a bunch of crap and the leader (and line,in some instances) is just more crap........the trout is not really able todistinguish it. Drag, movement, splashing and a stick waving overheadthatappears to be about 30 long (to a trout) will spook, but not commonflotsam. This puts me in the "I want bright ferrules and a shiny finish" school.But, as has been stated, make it the way you like it. Greg Holland -----Original Message----- As far as what the fish see, why do we use fine tippet leaders ? I oncecaught 22 little trout, in 22 casts, using a royal coachman dry, on a 7'-6"leader, ahead of a day glow red 5 wt. line ! So often the fish are just notactive, GMA ----- Original Message ----- Tony Young wrote: Re. line colour, apart from the fact you try not to let the trout see the line at all I've always thought a light coloured line would be best camouflage considering the trout is looking up into the sky which is usually brighter than the surrounding area. Having snorkelled while a buddy was fly fishing (I was hoping to see how the fly behaved, amongst other things) all lines look black from below against a bright sky. I read somewhere that fish can't see the colour blue so I wonder why you don't see blue lines. Have a great holiday Jon Beckton /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF5095.C7B64A68 I was fished observation I would make, however, is that you are possibly too quick in making youassessment are probably correct in deciding to use 8X in the Swift, but the reason may be your fly and were unaware....this happens frequently, especially when nymphing(some people don't realize that drag does affect yournymphing). My Tailwaters that supposed to be invisible vs. standard nylon but I found I had greater success with 5Xnylon I haven't ever fished springcreeks and I know their reputation is that fishare leader shy........I won't judge that situation 'til I've tried it, but on the rivers I have fished (tailwaters) that are similar my experience pointstoward presentation, not leader visibility. Cheers, Greg Holland -----Original Message-----From: PMG 22, 1999 Another rod finish question)I'ld really like to find the rivers that you fish where tippet size doesn't matter. There are a few streams that I fish where Ihave watched fish move to the side to avoid a 5X or 6X is a very actively avoided the fly long before it got to them. I went to a 7X in the same again with the same fly. I fished the Schroon river in NY and there was asection with a lot of fish actively rising. I caught a few fish with 6X but when I went to 8X (same fly) I was hooking up on almost every cast. The Samething happened when I fished the Rapid in ME. These days I fish (almost) exclusively with 8X tippet.I lost 2 or 3 fish this past year due to leader breakage. As for leaderlength I typically use a 12' to 15' leader. Another problem with heavy leader is the knotincreases the aparent size of the fly. ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony Young Cc: 'nobler@satx.rr.com' ; Jon.Beckton@asml.nl ; Rodmakers Sent: Thursday, December 23,1999 11:27 AMSubject: RE: Another rod finish question]Lets face it, trout are just weird animals and I like itthat way, basically, if you're seen or you mess up the cast it's all over but unearthly offerings delivered on what apparently looks like a bargehawser don't seem to be a problem.I'd like to add that I like fine tippets soI break less rod tips when the fly engages with an unseen structure onthe back cast be it a mate's neck (funny story that) or a twig. A finer tippet will hopefully break before the tip does.You're right though,inserting a 4X tippet through the eye of a #22 or #24 fly is harder than threading camels through the eyes of a needles, just to put it in the perspectiveof the season.TonyAt 09:10 AM 12/23/99 -0700,Greg Holland wrote: iI have to jump in on this one,if I may......"As far as what the fish see....." why do we use fine Only two reasons to use fine tippet in my book - reduction of drag and tiny read about his scuba experiments ( http://www.flyline.com imperically) deduced......the water is full of a bunch of crap and the leader (and line, in some instances) is just more crap........the trout is a stick waving overhead that appears to be about 30 long (to a trout)will me in has been stated, make it the way you like it.Greg Holland -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 6:51AM Subject: Re: Another rod finish question]As far as what the fish see, why do we use fine tippet leaders? I once caught 22 little trout, in 22 casts, using a royal coachman dry, on a 7'-6" leader, ahead of a day glow red 5 wt. line ! So often the fish are just not active, GMA ----- Original Message ----- From: Jon Beckton Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 1:13AM Subject: [Fwd: Another rod finish question]Tony Young wrote: not to let the trout see the be best which is Having snorkelled while a buddy was fly fishing (I was hopingto see how the fly behaved, amongst other things) all lines look black from below against a bright sky. I read somewhere that fish can't see the colour blue so I wonder why you don't see blue lines.Have a great holidayJonBeckton /*************************************************************************/AV Young And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. It/*************************************************************************/ ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF5095.C7B64A68-- from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Mon Dec 27 12:28:21 1999 Mon, 27 Dec 1999 13:28:15 -0500 "'pmgoodwin@earthlink.net'" ,Rodmakers As I understand it, the reason we use a particular weight tippet has to domostly with getting a fly to "turn over" and settle properly on the water.That is, it's an issue mainly for dry flies, the rule of thumb being thatyou use a tippet whose size number is 1/3 that of the number of the flyyou're using - e.g., if you're fishing a #24 midge, you want to tie it on a#8 tippet because otherwise the system is unbalanced and the fly will hitthe water wrong. I find it difficult to believe that the diameter of thetippet makes that much difference in nymphing, where you're usingrelativelybig/heavy flies anyway and, besides, living nymphs do swim across andevenagainst the current, so it is hard to see how "microdrag" is an issue. -----Original Message-----From: Greg Holland [SMTP:gholland@navsys.com]Sent: Monday, December 27, 1999 1:11 PM Subject: RE: tippet (Was - Another rod finish question) I was careful to preface my post with "most of the time". However, Ihavefished the Swift and I understand the dilemma you face there. Oneobservation I would make, however, is that you are possibly too quick inmaking you assessment that the trout are leader-shy in the traditionalwayof thinking. You are probably correct in deciding to use 8X in the Swift,but the reason may be different. It is possible that you were stillgetting micro-drag on your fly and were unaware....this happensfrequently, especially when nymphing (some people don't realize thatdragdoes affect your nymphing). My most revealing study has been on the San Juan and S. Platte.Tailwaters just like the Swift. I was testing the flourocarbon craze andfound that it decreased my success because of its extra stiffness. It issupposed to be invisible vs. standard nylon but I found I had greatersuccess with 5X nylon than 5X flourocarbon. I think that this is becauseof drag introduced by the stiffness of the f.carbon. I haven't ever fished springcreeks and I know their reputation is thatfish are leader shy........I won't judge that situation 'til I've triedit, but on the rivers I have fished (tailwaters) that are similar myexperience points toward presentation, not leader visibility. Cheers, Greg Holland -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 8:41 PM Subject: tippet (Was - Another rod finish question) I'ld really like to find the rivers that you fish where tippet sizedoesn't matter. There are a few streams that I fish where I have watchedfish move to the side to avoid a 5X or 6X tippet. First there is the Swift River in central MA. It is a tail watercoming out of the Quabbin Resevoir. The river is very cold and crystalclear. I've fished it with a 6X tippet and fish actively avoided the flylong before it got to them. I went to a 7X in the same material and gotsome fish but mostly rejects. Then I went to 8X, again in the samematerial, and hooked up repeatedly. The test was done with the same fly. I fished the Schroon river in NY and there was a section with a lotof fish actively rising. I caught a few fish with 6X but when I went to 8X(same fly) I was hooking up on almost every cast. The Same thinghappenedwhen I fished the Rapid in ME. These days I fish (almost) exclusively with 8X tippet. I lost 2 or 3fish this past year due to leader breakage. As for leader length Itypically use a 12' to 15' leader. Another problem with heavy leader is the knot increases the aparentsize of the fly. ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony Young Cc: 'nobler@satx.rr.com' ;Jon.Beckton@asml.nl ; Rodmakers Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 11:27 AMSubject: RE: Another rod finish question] Lets face it, trout are just weird animals and I like itthat way, basically, if you're seen or you mess up the cast it's all overbut unearthly offerings delivered on what apparently looks like a bargehawser don't seem to be a problem.I'd like to add that I like fine tippets so I break less rodtips when the fly engages with an unseen structure on the back cast be ita mate's neck (funny story that) or a twig. A finer tippet will hopefullybreak before the tip does.You're right though, inserting a 4X tippet through the eyeof a #22 or #24 fly is harder than threading camels through the eyes of aneedles, just to put it in the perspective of the season. Tony At 09:10 AM 12/23/99 -0700, Greg Holland wrote: iI have to jump in on this one,if I may......"As faras what the fish see....." why do we use fine tippet? In my opinion,absolutely no reason. Only two reasons to use fine tippet in my book -reduction of drag and tiny hook eyes. Did you ever try to jam 4X tippetthrough the eye of a #22 or #24 fly? Browse throught Ralph Cutter'swebsit and read about his scuba experiments ( ). Hehas come to the conclusion that I only logically (not imperically)deduced......the water is full of a bunch of crap and the leader (andline, in some instances) is just more crap........the trout is not reallyable to distinguish it. Drag, movement, splashing and a stick wavingoverhead that appears to be about 30 long (to a trout) will spook, but notcommon flotsam. This puts me in the "I want bright ferrules and ashiny finish" school. But, as has been stated, make it the way you likeit. Greg Holland -----Original Message----- From: nobler [ ] Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 6:51 AM Subject: Re: Another rod finish question] As far as what the fish see, why do we use finetippet leaders ? I once caught 22 little trout, in 22 casts, using a royalcoachman dry, on a 7'-6" leader, ahead of a day glow red 5 wt. line ! Sooften the fish are just not active, GMA ----- Original Message ----- From: Jon Beckton Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 1:13 AM Subject: [Fwd: Another rod finish question] Tony Young wrote: Re. line colour, apart from the fact you try notto let the trout see the line at all I've always thought a light colouredline would be best camouflage considering the trout is looking upinto the sky which is usually brighter than the surrounding area. Having snorkelled while a buddy was fly fishing (Iwas hoping to see how the fly behaved, amongst other things) all lineslook black from below against a bright sky. I read somewhere that fishcan't see the colour blue so I wonder why you don't see blue lines. Have a great holiday Jon Beckton /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at:www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from nobaithere@yahoo.com Mon Dec 27 13:25:03 1999 1999 11:25:00 PST HELLO, IM NEW TO THE LIST. I STARTED BUILDING BAMBOOFLY RODS 2 YEARS AGO. DURING THE PROCESS I THOUGHTTHAT A ROUGHING BEVELER WOULD HELP SPEED UP THINGS,SOI CONSTRUCTED ONE ACCORDING TO THE DRAWINGS IN GEORGEMAUERS BOOK . THE ONE USING A ROUTER AND STRAIGHTCUTTER. IT WORKED FAIRLY WELL, AND I WAS PLEASED WITHTHE RESULTS UNTIL I MET UP WITH ANOTHER ROD MAKER WHOLIVES NEAR BY.HIS COMPANY IS JW BAMBOO FLY RODS. AREALLY NICE GUY,VERY HELPFUL TO A NOVICE LIKE ME. HE TOOK THE DESIGN OF THE BEVELER I MADE AND MADEMANY CLEVER REFINEMENTS THAT ALMOST MAKE IT ACOMPLETELY DIFFERENT MACHINE. THIS IS NOT A PLUG FORHIS PRODUCT BY THE WAY. I WAS SO IMPRESSED WITH ITSSUPERIOR FUNCTION THAT I BOUGHT QNE FOR MYSELF AS ACHRISTMAS PRESENT.IT ALSO HAS A FLUTING ATTACHMENTTHAT WORKS JUST AS WELL AS THE BEVELER. AND I ALSOBOUGHT MYSELF A BANDSAW FOR CHRISTMAS. IVE BEEN A VERYGOOD BOY THIS YEAR. SCOTT BUT- LER_________________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Dec 27 14:09:48 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Mon, 27 Dec 1999 14:01:05 -0600 What brand of import ? If it's made to industry standards, it has a 5- 40thread, ( I think it is ), and you just unscrew one, and screw in the other.Mine is a Mitutoyo, (sp.) and it's a standard type. GMA----- Original Message ----- Happy Holidays all! I just received a dial indicator, it is an inport but will work for abeginner. Yet, I am having a hard time removing the interchangeablepointso that I can replace it with the starret 60 degree point I purchased.I guess I fear I will twist something apart inside if I take a pair ofneedle nose to the point to unscrew it, any ideas? Also, there are twoknobs, one to allow the face to move but what is the upper most knobfor? Thanks for your helpDarin Law from djk762@hotmail.com Mon Dec 27 15:28:12 1999 Mon, 27 Dec 1999 13:27:38 PST List, Well I did not get any of the expensive hardware I wanted for Christmas but what I do have is bamboo.I have three sets of strips roughed for rods in the 7'range. I would like to make as diverse casting rods as possible to further my rod taper education.I am thinking of a PHY Driggs, a W.Cattanach 7043, and a Garrison 201.Any comments or suggestions?David Kashuba FairOaks CA.______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from sats@gte.net Mon Dec 27 16:47:47 1999 ; id QAA3735475 Happy new year. from oakmere@carol.net Mon Dec 27 18:59:52 1999 Mon, 27 Dec 1999 19:58:04 -0500 Hi Folks and Jeff: Hey Jeff we have something going - our diswasher "bit the dust" as wellonChristmas day. Must be something in the water. Got one of those FlyFishing casting games from one of my wife's relatives.Haven't figured out yet how the damn thing works. I appear to do better ona real river. Dam thing isn't made of bamboo or graphite - just plastic.Heading out for a stream on Wednesday. FrankFrank Paul, GreyFox2932 North Bayshore DriveSeneca, SC 29672fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work)oakmere@carol.net (home) from martinjensen@home.com Mon Dec 27 20:48:29 1999 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP ;Mon, 27 Dec 1999 18:45:33 -0800 No, most of the stuff is old computer parts. This is a city dump and nodiving allowed, though I have seen some stuff I would like to take.Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Martin,"...Now it is off to the dump..." Would that be to unload the sweepings or is that your source ofmachinery?If the latter, I sure would like to go dumpster-diving with YOU someday!Mybest find so far was a Delta bench-top drill press in the woods near myhouse. Needed a good cleaning (and a motor), but otherwise it has servedmewell.Never look a gift horse....*G*Art *Some people can tell what time it is by looking at the sun,but I never have been able to make out the numbers.* from caneman@clnk.com Mon Dec 27 20:51:05 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com; Mon, 27 Dec 1999 20:48:48 -0600 , Ted,I have never used the Veritas, but I agree with you on the low angleplanes. I keep my blades extremely sharp and have no problem tearing outnodes. Bob -----Original Message----- ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu I recently bought one of the new Lee Valley "Veritas" low angle planes.Have used it on the last 4 rods with excellent results. Can't say enoughgood things about it. I ground the blade so that I have a 65 degree anglebetween the form and the cutting edge. Conventional thinking says that alow angle plane tends to tear nodes, but I haven't found that to be truewith the "Veritas" plane. ----------From: Ray Gould Subject: Re: Lie-Nielsen PlaneDate: Sunday, December 26, 1999 11:32 PM Hi KenThe Lie Nielson scraper plane is a dandy!Ray----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Mann Sent: Sunday, December 26, 1999 5:52 PMSubject: Lie-Nielsen Plane I am looking to purchase a Lie-Nielsen plane and would like to hear fromthe list if they are worth the investment. In particular, they offer a LowAngle Adjustable Mouth block plane with an optional Rod Maker's Groove,hasanyone used this plane and is there any feedback out there. thanks...klm from dmanders@telusplanet.net Tue Dec 28 07:26:43 1999 don") Tue, 28 Dec 1999 06:26:00 -0700 Ted and others, Was talking to Lee Valley customer service folks that other day and askedthem when they were going to make a 9 1/2 style plane - they would makenopromises but would run it by those that make the decisions. Suggestedtherewere a bunch of cane builders that would like to see one. Didn't realizethat some of you folks were using a 60 1/2 with success.Got 2 more Record 9 1/2 planes the other day and they have changed theirfrog tightening device to a screw. Anyone else like the screw thing. It's apain. Barely works. Not a lot of room for your fingers to get a grip on it.Hard to keep alignment of the blade when you;re tightening the thing. And on another note - use grooved planes to plane nearly to final and a 91/2 to take the last 0.002 or so off to level the strip to the form. WorksOK. The groove does most of the work. Takes about 2 passes end to end tocomplete the strip. No setting errors possible. regards, Don At 12:54 AM 12/27/99 -0500, Ted Knott wrote:I recently bought one of the new Lee Valley "Veritas" low angle planes. Have used it on the last 4 rods with excellent results. Can't say enoughgood things about it. I ground the blade so that I have a 65 degree anglebetween the form and the cutting edge. Conventional thinking says that alow angle plane tends to tear nodes, but I haven't found that to be truewith the "Veritas" plane. ----------From: Ray Gould Subject: Re: Lie-Nielsen PlaneDate: Sunday, December 26, 1999 11:32 PM Hi KenThe Lie Nielson scraper plane is a dandy!Ray----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Mann Sent: Sunday, December 26, 1999 5:52 PMSubject: Lie-Nielsen Plane I am looking to purchase a Lie-Nielsen plane and would like to hear fromthe list if they are worth the investment. In particular, they offer a LowAngle Adjustable Mouth block plane with an optional Rod Maker's Groove,hasanyone used this plane and is there any feedback out there. thanks...klm http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from dmanders@telusplanet.net Tue Dec 28 07:34:02 1999 don") Tue, 28 Dec 1999 06:32:59 -0700 Guys, This year was the year of the fly tier with 2 books by AK Best and 2 tapes fishing with AK and John Gierach last summer. Got discussing flyconstruction and John suggested the books/tapes. Been tying for 40 or soyears - watched the tapes - things to be learned there - good things. Plus - just to keep things interesting - a ice cream making machine. Loveice cream - Plus I went fishing yesterday - trip 116 for the year. Best year ever fornumber of times out. And we caught some browns. Have a great year all, Don http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from jfreeman@cyberport.com Tue Dec 28 08:21:11 1999 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01BF5104.0B6BDAC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BF5104.0B6BDAC0 Well, I was very happy with my new 9" x 19" lathe from Grizzly, but then =along comes Jerry with a Morgan Mill. My feelings of satisfaction are = ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BF5104.0B6BDAC0 Gents, Well, I was very happy withmy = 19" lathe from Grizzly, but then along comes Jerry with a Morgan Mill. = feelings of satisfaction are now turning into lust, Happy Holidays, Jim ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BF5104.0B6BDAC0-- from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Tue Dec 28 12:10:59 1999 (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP Tue, 28 Dec 1999 18:10:25 +0000 , If you sharpen a low angle plane blade to 65* would it still be a low angleplane? Jack -----Original Message----- ; kenmannjr@netzero.net ;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Ted,I have never used the Veritas, but I agree with you on the low angleplanes. I keep my blades extremely sharp and have no problem tearing outnodes. Bob -----Original Message-----From: Ted Knott ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Monday, December 27, 1999 12:01 AMSubject: Re: Lie-Nielsen Plane I recently bought one of the new Lee Valley "Veritas" low angle planes.Have used it on the last 4 rods with excellent results. Can't say enoughgood things about it. I ground the blade so that I have a 65 degreeanglebetween the form and the cutting edge. Conventional thinking says thatalow angle plane tends to tear nodes, but I haven't found that to be truewith the "Veritas" plane. ----------From: Ray Gould Subject: Re: Lie-Nielsen PlaneDate: Sunday, December 26, 1999 11:32 PM Hi KenThe Lie Nielson scraper plane is a dandy!Ray----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Mann Sent: Sunday, December 26, 1999 5:52 PMSubject: Lie-Nielsen Plane I am looking to purchase a Lie-Nielsen plane and would like to hearfromthe list if they are worth the investment. In particular, they offer aLowAngle Adjustable Mouth block plane with an optional Rod Maker's Groove,hasanyone used this plane and is there any feedback out there. thanks...klm from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Tue Dec 28 13:28:47 1999 0500 I am sure this has been discussed before but what are theadvantages/disadvantages to 12 degree vs. 20 degree planes? Is one betterforfinal planing and very delicate work than the other? Thanks in advance....Andy from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Dec 28 13:45:57 1999 0000 1999 11:45:53 PST "rod 'akers" "....is the 12* plane or the 20* plane better forrodbuilding?" man, is that a can of worms!when i started the list a few months ago that was thetopic. the low angle plane was designed to be used one uses the same plane. i have found blade sharpingis about the most important aspect of rod building. when your blade is not sharp the task changes fromplaning to gnawing. timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.http://messenger.yahoo.com from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Dec 28 14:00:00 1999 0000 1999 11:59:51 PST ...well, maybe not "the most", but one of the most.tjt --- timothy troester wrote:"....is the 12* plane or the 20* plane better forrodbuilding?" man, is that a can of worms!when i started the list a few months ago that wasthetopic. the low angle plane was designed to be used noone uses the same plane. i have found bladesharpingis about the most important aspect of rod building. when your blade is not sharp the task changes fromplaning to gnawing. timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.http://messenger.yahoo.com ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.http://messenger.yahoo.com from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Tue Dec 28 14:06:00 1999 MAA25963 ESMTP forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 12:05:53 -0800 (5.5.2448.0) 19.ca.boeing.com> the latest copy of fine woodworking has a great article on sharpening andanother one onwaxes. Must reading including formulas for making waxes Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from teekay35@interlynx.net Tue Dec 28 14:31:36 1999 I've always used a low angle plane, but only for roughing . . . . mucheasier to push, but the new Veritas plane has turned out to be super forfinish work. ----------From: Don & Sandy Andersen Cc: rsgould@cmc.net; kenmannjr@netzero.net;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re:Veritas PlanesDate: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 8:26 AM Ted and others, Was talking to Lee Valley customer service folks that other day andaskedthem when they were going to make a 9 1/2 style plane - they wouldmakenopromises but would run it by those that make the decisions. Suggestedtherewere a bunch of cane builders that would like to see one. Didn't realizethat some of you folks were using a 60 1/2 with success.Got 2 more Record 9 1/2 planes the other day and they have changedtheirfrog tightening device to a screw. Anyone else like the screw thing. It'sapain. Barely works. Not a lot of room for your fingers to get a grip onit.Hard to keep alignment of the blade when you;re tightening the thing. And on another note - use grooved planes to plane nearly to final and a 91/2 to take the last 0.002 or so off to level the strip to the form.WorksOK. The groove does most of the work. Takes about 2 passes end to end tocomplete the strip. No setting errors possible. regards, Don At 12:54 AM 12/27/99 -0500, Ted Knott wrote:I recently bought one of the new Lee Valley "Veritas" low angle planes. Have used it on the last 4 rods with excellent results. Can't sayenoughgood things about it. I ground the blade so that I have a 65 degreeanglebetween the form and the cutting edge. Conventional thinking says thatalow angle plane tends to tear nodes, but I haven't found that to be truewith the "Veritas" plane. ----------From: Ray Gould Subject: Re: Lie-Nielsen PlaneDate: Sunday, December 26, 1999 11:32 PM Hi KenThe Lie Nielson scraper plane is a dandy!Ray----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Mann Sent: Sunday, December 26, 1999 5:52 PMSubject: Lie-Nielsen Plane I am looking to purchase a Lie-Nielsen plane and would like to hearfromthe list if they are worth the investment. In particular, they offer aLowAngle Adjustable Mouth block plane with an optional Rod Maker'sGroove,hasanyone used this plane and is there any feedback out there. thanks...klm http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Dec 28 14:45:53 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Tue, 28 Dec 1999 14:46:09 -0600 All this "plane talk", does get confusing. So far there are about 5different models, and no telling how many types, many swear by ! Is all ofthis in the archives somewhere ? GMA----- Original Message ----- the latest copy of fine woodworking has a great article on sharpeningandanother one on waxes. Must reading including formulas for making waxes Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from rhd360@maine.edu Tue Dec 28 15:32:17 1999 Level 310) via TCPwith SMTP ; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 16:31:54 EST Ken. I use both the stanley 9.5 and the L/N 9.5 with grooved sole. Bothworkfine, but the L/N is just more refined. For instance, the sole is true andflat on the L/N, unlike a new Stanley, and there is no need to lap or flattenit. The bed is true, meaning the blade sits true and there is no need toadjust the bed as in a new Stanley. The blade is of the quality of a Hockreplacement blade but thicker, and there is no need to buy a replacementas ina new Stanley. The blade adjustment mechanism is more refined than on anewStanley, and easier to operate. The L/N is also not as wide as a newStanley,and consequently fits my hand better and it less fatiguing to use, but thatprobably varies from person-to-person. In the end it is like comparing aGillium with a South Bend, both will catch fish but so will a hook, line andworm. I do like having the L/N with the grooved sole for all the obvious andalreadystated reasons.Incidentally, L/N also makes a 60.5 which I've never used and have nocommenton. I have no connection with L/N but I did go down and visit their factory lastwinter, met Tom L/N himself and toured the facilities. Nice folks andclearlycommited to producing high quality woodworking tools. Based on the visitIwrote and article for the BFR mag., although I now wonder about my lessthanperfect timing. What ever happened to the BFR and will we see anotherissue,if not in this century, then the next? Bob. At 08:52 PM 12/26/99 -0500, Ken Mann wrote: I am looking to purchase a Lie-Nielsen plane and would like to hear fromthelist if they are worth the investment. In particular, they offer a LowAngleAdjustable Mouth block plane with an optional Rod Maker's Groove, hasanyoneused this plane and is there any feedback out there. thanks...klm Robert M. Milardo, Ph.D.Professor of Family Relations University of MaineOrono, ME 04469(207) 581-3128(207) 581-3120 FAX from fiveside@net-gate.com Tue Dec 28 16:14:02 1999 ns1.net-gate.com (8.9.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA08075; Tue, 28 Dec 199917:13:54 -0500 Chase Funny thing is I have not seen a single failure in tip sections - thereare a lot more stress (don't believe the stress curves) in the butt section - I haveseen failuresoccur there. I have done some really fine tips and I do not hesitate to gonodeless. My concerns are further down the rod. Chris On Fri, 24 Dec 1999 15:53:58 -0700, Chase R Adams wrote: Do any of you nodeless builders build your tips nodeless? Its been awhile since I read it but I belive Garrison says that the joint isn'tstrong enough to use on the tip section. Just curious. Have a merryChristmas and a happy new year, hope you get to visit some of thoselonglost relatives.Sincerely, C.R. Adams To the List,Chris has a good point here. Stress curves are based on classic cantileverbeam theory assuming zero bending, and as we know, flyrods do sometimesbend, quite a lot. Bending can reduce the stresses in the bent regionsubstantially (SeeTPF #43) Bill from mevans@acxiom.com Tue Dec 28 18:32:59 1999 (router,SLMail V3.2); Tue, 28 Dec 1999 18:39:28 -0600 (router,SLMail V3.2); Tue, 28 Dec 1999 18:33:09 -0600 (204.107.111.23::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V3.2); Tue, 28 Dec1999 18:33:09-0600 popmail.conway.acxiom.com ; Tue Dec 2818:33:08 1999 -0600 (5.5.2650.21) JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net, andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com,"rod 'akers" TimAll else being equal, a steeper angle has less of a tendency to lift and chipnodes. A low angle plane could be sharpened a bit steeper to achieve thesame angle as a standard block plane. However, on the low angle plane,theangle of the blade would be 8 - 9* greater - say 39* instead of 30*. This would seem to have some affect on performance and the ability of the blade to hold an edge. How much, I have no idea. Could this be why Stanley made both planes? I use a low angle for initial planing with no problems. -----Original Message----- "....is the 12* plane or the 20* plane better forrodbuilding?" man, is that a can of worms!when i started the list a few months ago that was thetopic. the low angle plane was designed to be used one uses the same plane. i have found blade sharpingis about the most important aspect of rod building. when your blade is not sharp the task changes fromplaning to gnawing. timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.http://messenger.yahoo.com from caneman@clnk.com Wed Dec 29 05:08:09 1999 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35)with SMTP id com for ;Wed, 29 Dec 1999 05:06:01 -0600 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003A_01BF51BA.656EF280" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01BF51BA.656EF280 Just had to comment on the guides I got from Mike McCoy at Snake Brand =Guides. I have to agree with Wayne, these are the best "as supplied" =guides I have ever seen. Going to contact Mike today and order a supply =of them. NO DOUBT I will use Snake Brand on my rods! They are clean, =beautifully turned, finished very nicely, feet are shaped perfect, =length of feet dead on from snake to snake... As always, no finacial =interest except for the Check I am going to send out to him! Bob ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01BF51BA.656EF280 Just had to comment on the guides I got from Mike McCoy at Snake = order a supply of them. NO DOUBT I will use Snake Brand on my = are clean, beautifully turned, finished very nicely, feet are shaped = length of feet dead on from snake to snake... As always, no finacial = except for the Check I am going to send out to him! Bob ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01BF51BA.656EF280-- from lars32@gateway.net Wed Dec 29 07:53:18 1999 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0063_01BF51D2.1BD6B0A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01BF51D2.1BD6B0A0 I have been using pac bays TiCh snakes lately the are plated with =titanium carbide. In years past the bane of black guides has been how =quickly tthe color comes off. Their new plating is very durable. I just =ordered a set of guides to try on a new rod I am building from Snake =brand and am wondering how durable their black finish will be. If the =wear qualities are good I will certainly make the switch.I just worked =on a set of guides today the old way on my grinder. It took me over an =hour.--- --Original Message-----From: Bob Nunley Date: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 3:12 AMSubject: Snake Brand Guides Just had to comment on the guides I got from Mike McCoy at Snake =Brand Guides. I have to agree with Wayne, these are the best "as =supplied" guides I have ever seen. Going to contact Mike today and =order a supply of them. NO DOUBT I will use Snake Brand on my rods! =They are clean, beautifully turned, finished very nicely, feet are =shaped perfect, length of feet dead on from snake to snake... As always, =no finacial interest except for the Check I am going to send out to him! Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01BF51D2.1BD6B0A0 I have been using pac bays TiCh = the are plated with titanium carbide. In years past the bane of black = been how quickly tthe color comes off. Their new plating is very = ordered a set of guides to try on a new rod I am building from Snake = am wondering how durable their black finish will be. If the wear = good I will certainly make the switch.I just worked on a set of guides = -----Original = =Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Wednesday, December 29, 1999 3:12 AMSubject: Snake = GuidesJust had to comment on the guides I got from Mike McCoy at = are shaped perfect, length of feet dead on from snake to snake... As = him! Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01BF51D2.1BD6B0A0-- from rcurry@ttlc.net Wed Dec 29 09:11:09 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id A5B8188601BC; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 10:16:08 -0500 All,#1 - In restoring an old quality rod, I've encountered a problem.The original snakes are low profile with large pad feet, and the feetare serrated on the top. The serrations make it difficult to wind thethread smoothly; even if I go up to size A, the thread will fall intothe grooves and not pack evenly. Has anyone a simple solution for thisproblem? I thought I might fill the grooves with solder, but that soundsteejus.#2 - Does anyone have a source for low-profile bronzed snakes?Thanks.Best regards,Reed from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Dec 29 09:26:57 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Wed, 29 Dec 1999 09:18:09 -0600 You could use a fine jewelers file, to dress the grooves, or roughness offthe tops of the feet. As long as they are protected well from moisture,theyshouldn't rust. I have samples of the new Sake Guides, and they are just super, and theyarein the black/bronzed color. GMA----- Original Message ----- All,#1 - In restoring an old quality rod, I've encountered a problem.The original snakes are low profile with large pad feet, and the feetare serrated on the top. The serrations make it difficult to wind thethread smoothly; even if I go up to size A, the thread will fall intothe grooves and not pack evenly. Has anyone a simple solution for thisproblem? I thought I might fill the grooves with solder, but that soundsteejus.#2 - Does anyone have a source for low-profile bronzed snakes?Thanks.Best regards,Reed from darrell@rockclimbing.org Wed Dec 29 09:33:49 1999 sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with SMTP id for How about double-wrapping the guides with 00 or flatten the serrationswitha hammer... good for relieving stress too... Darrell L. -----Original Message----- All,#1 - In restoring an old quality rod, I've encountered a problem.The original snakes are low profile with large pad feet, and the feetare serrated on the top. The serrations make it difficult to wind thethread smoothly; even if I go up to size A, the thread will fall intothe grooves and not pack evenly. Has anyone a simple solution for thisproblem? I thought I might fill the grooves with solder, but that soundsteejus.#2 - Does anyone have a source for low-profile bronzed snakes?Thanks.Best regards,Reed from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Wed Dec 29 09:44:55 1999 (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP Wed, 29 Dec 1999 15:44:22 +0000 To C.R.Adams:I build all my rod completely nodeless from butt to tip and only had onesplice de-laminate and that was due to the use of Gorilla glue. The glue isexcellent if used correctly-- a little moisture required in the splice. I'msure you will also find that Chris Bogart also builds nodeless from tip tobutt and has excellent success using Titebond II Wood Glue which is nowmychoice in splicing. Jack. Funny thing is I have not seen a single failure in tip sections - thereare a lotmore stress (don't believe the stress curves) in the butt section - I haveseen failuresoccur there. I have done some really fine tips and I do not hesitate togonodeless.My concerns are further down the rod. Chris On Fri, 24 Dec 1999 15:53:58 -0700, Chase R Adams wrote: Do any of you nodeless builders build your tips nodeless? Its been awhile since I read it but I belive Garrison says that the joint isn'tstrong enough to use on the tip section. Just curious. Have a merryChristmas and a happy new year, hope you get to visit some of thoselonglost relatives.Sincerely,C.R. Adams To the List,Chris has a good point here. Stress curves are based on classiccantileverbeam theory assuming zero bending, and as we know, flyrods dosometimes>bend, quite a lot. Bending can reduce the stresses in the bentregionsubstantially (SeeTPF #43) Bill from Gerald.Buckley@Thrifty.com Wed Dec 29 10:26:28 1999 I've poked and prodded around enough to know the Four Brothers rod Iboughta few weeks back is a trademark of Pflueger's. Beyond that I don't knowjack! and I'm stumped. Does anyone have digitized photos of a mint Four Brothers rod I canreference from or can anyone help me piece the history of this rodtogetheras part of my restoration? More than anything I guess I'd like to know whomade these for Pflueger. Thanks, Gerald from dickay@alltel.net Wed Dec 29 14:15:45 1999 OAA02829; "Rodmakers Listserv" Darrell, Whose stress? Reed's or the stress in the metal?Dick Fuhrman ----- Original Message ----- How about double-wrapping the guides with 00 or flatten the serrationswitha hammer... good for relieving stress too... Darrell L. -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 7:11 AM Subject: Snake Guides -- some questions All,#1 - In restoring an old quality rod, I've encountered a problem.The original snakes are low profile with large pad feet, and the feetare serrated on the top. The serrations make it difficult to wind thethread smoothly; even if I go up to size A, the thread will fall intothe grooves and not pack evenly. Has anyone a simple solution for thisproblem? I thought I might fill the grooves with solder, but that soundsteejus.#2 - Does anyone have a source for low-profile bronzed snakes?Thanks.Best regards,Reed from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Dec 29 14:17:21 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Wed, 29 Dec 1999 14:17:41 -0600 Can you send a photo of the ferrules, and grip, with the butt section st thefront of the grip shown ? I think Heddon made some for Pfluger, as theydid GMA----- Original Message ----- I've poked and prodded around enough to know the Four Brothers rod Iboughta few weeks back is a trademark of Pflueger's. Beyond that I don't knowjack! and I'm stumped. Does anyone have digitized photos of a mint Four Brothers rod I canreference from or can anyone help me piece the history of this rodtogetheras part of my restoration? More than anything I guess I'd like to knowwhomade these for Pflueger. Thanks, Gerald from fquinchat@locl.net Wed Dec 29 16:00:17 1999 corsair.locl.net(8.9.0/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA28798 for ;Wed, 29 Dec 1999 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004E_01BF521F.19485DA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BF521F.19485DA0 I see that Stuart Kirkfield's book has been released as a 2nd edition by =Cork and Cane Press in Colorado Springs. I'm concerned about sending =them $80 after I find that they do not have a listed phone number and I =can't find an email address. Has anyone delt with this company and have a phone number? Dennis Bertram ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BF521F.19485DA0 I see that Stuart Kirkfield's book= released as a 2nd edition by Cork and Cane Press in Colorado = address. Has anyone delt with thiscompany = phone number? Dennis =Bertram ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BF521F.19485DA0-- from lars32@gateway.net Wed Dec 29 16:18:27 1999 Sand or file or grind the grooves off the guides and recolor them with apermanent brown marker.Dave Norling-----Original Message----- All,#1 - In restoring an old quality rod, I've encountered a problem.The original snakes are low profile with large pad feet, and the feetare serrated on the top. The serrations make it difficult to wind thethread smoothly; even if I go up to size A, the thread will fall intothe grooves and not pack evenly. Has anyone a simple solution for thisproblem? I thought I might fill the grooves with solder, but that soundsteejus.#2 - Does anyone have a source for low-profile bronzed snakes?Thanks.Best regards,Reed from edriddle@mindspring.com Wed Dec 29 18:02:45 1999 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001B_01BF522E.DAFAB560" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01BF522E.DAFAB560 Dennis:I purchased the 2nd ed. via e-mail, Stuart can be reached at =CorknCane@aol.com , I don't have phone #.Ed-----Original Message-----From: Dennis Bertram Date: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 5:06 PMSubject: Kirkfield Book I see that Stuart Kirkfield's book has been released as a 2nd =edition by Cork and Cane Press in Colorado Springs. I'm concerned about =sending them $80 after I find that they do not have a listed phone =number and I can't find an email address. Has anyone delt with this company and have a phone number? Dennis Bertram ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01BF522E.DAFAB560 Dennis:Ipurchased = e-mail, Stuart can be reached at CorknCane@aol.com , I don't have= #.Ed -----Original = Rodmakers <Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Wednesday, December 29, 1999 5:06 PMSubject: = BookI see that Stuart Kirkfield's = released as a 2nd edition by Cork and Cane Press in Colorado = I'm concerned about sending them $80 after I find that they do not = address. Has anyone delt with this = phone number? Bertram ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01BF522E.DAFAB560-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Dec 29 18:18:53 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Wed, 29 Dec 1999 18:10:07 -0600 "Rodmakers" boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00CD_01BF5229.4179C7A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00CD_01BF5229.4179C7A0 I sent in the $59.95, and they called that it was no longer available at =that price, signed or unsigned ! I just told them to return my check ! GMA Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 5:59 PMSubject: Re: Kirkfield Book Dennis:I purchased the 2nd ed. via e-mail, Stuart can be reached at =CorknCane@aol.com , I don't have phone #.Ed-----Original Message-----From: Dennis Bertram Date: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 5:06 PMSubject: Kirkfield Book I see that Stuart Kirkfield's book has been released as a 2nd =edition by Cork and Cane Press in Colorado Springs. I'm concerned about =sending them $80 after I find that they do not have a listed phone =number and I can't find an email address. Has anyone delt with this company and have a phone number? Dennis Bertram ------=_NextPart_000_00CD_01BF5229.4179C7A0 I sent in the $59.95, and they called that = return my check ! GMA ----- Original Message ----- Riddle Sent: Wednesday, December 29, = PMSubject: Re: Kirkfield =Book Dennis:Ipurchased = via e-mail, Stuart can be reached at CorknCane@aol.com , I don'thave = #.Ed -----Original = Rodmakers <Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Wednesday, December 29, 1999 5:06 PMSubject: = BookI see that Stuart Kirkfield's = released as a 2nd edition by Cork and Cane Press in Colorado = I'm concerned about sending them $80 after I find that they do not = address. Has anyone delt with this = phone number? Bertram ------=_NextPart_000_00CD_01BF5229.4179C7A0-- from piscator@crosswinds.net Wed Dec 29 18:42:49 1999 (envelope- from piscator@crosswinds.net) boundary="------------4D5E263C467C7F312F9C4A0F" --------------4D5E263C467C7F312F9C4A0F Hi Y'all- I got Standing in a River Waving a Stick from my kids, (ends withthat damn story on the Jordan. Kiss and tell SOB.), The Complete Angler books I don't have and a fishing magazine I don't subscribe to, yet.), ASanta in waders ornament, and lotsa non-fishing stuff. My 8 year old saw the cover of the most recent FR&R magazine w/Gierach's photo on the cover. He said, "Nice fly rod, but that is onesorry looking Santa! Merry-Happy, Brian --------------4D5E263C467C7F312F9C4A0F Hi Y'all- SOB.), The Complete Angler by some guy named Prozac, from the in-laws(took it back and got the JG books I don't have and a fishing magazineI don't subscribe to, yet.), A Santa in waders ornament, and lotsa non-fishingstuff.My 8 year old saw the cover of the most recent FR&R magazine w/ one sorry looking Santa!Merry-Happy,Brian --------------4D5E263C467C7F312F9C4A0F-- from morten@flash.net Wed Dec 29 19:11:32 1999 Reed, Coat the feet with epoxy, smooth them down with a file and wrapwith your favorite silk as usual.Morten-- 3119 Georgia Pine Dr.Spring, TX 77373(281) 353 5725http://www.flash.net/~morten from rcurry@ttlc.net Wed Dec 29 20:04:26 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id AEDB2D210158; Wed, 29 Dec 1999 21:09:31 -0500 All,Thanks for many excellent suggestions. I forgot to mention that theserrations were too deep to remove, but many offered interesting methodsforfilling them.Best regards,Reed reed curry wrote: All,#1 - In restoring an old quality rod, I've encountered a problem.The original snakes are low profile with large pad feet, and the feetare serrated on the top. The serrations make it difficult to wind thethread smoothly; even if I go up to size A, the thread will fall intothe grooves and not pack evenly. Has anyone a simple solution for thisproblem? I thought I might fill the grooves with solder, but that soundsteejus.#2 - Does anyone have a source for low-profile bronzed snakes?Thanks.Best regards,Reed from utzerath@execpc.com Wed Dec 29 23:19:30 1999 0600 I've been using a wipe-on finish made locally and have been pretty happywith it. I'm wondering if there is a down-side to it. It's called Arm-R-Seal (no connection, no spam, etc.) and it's described asa modified tung, urethane finish. Better woodworking supply places carryit. Contrary to what the Japan Woodworker site says, it is available ingloss. The main reason I like it is because you can touch up chips andscratches easily, it is OK to use steel wool between coats and it's not toohard to polish with the usual abrasives after a week's cure. It has no UVlight additives, but I don't think that's too important. Any comments? from ldavis@coweblink.net Wed Dec 29 23:32:36 1999 COWEBLINK1(MailMax 3.064)with ESMTP id 9435825 for ; Wed, 29 Dec1999 22:31:23 -0700MST I'm building a new workbench. My question is, what would youinclude in designing the perfect workbench? Height, style etc. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Dec 30 02:18:43 1999 Thu, 30 Dec 1999 16:18:17 +0800 types="text/plain,text/html";boundary="=====================_10973779==_.ALT" --=====================_10973779==_.ALT This is almost as big a can of worms as plane irons and glues but I'vemade afew benches for different tasks from spar making to cabinet making andthereare a few things I've found that suit me best given there will be a lot ofhandplaning and possibly chisel work at some time. If you use power tools a lot the bench height may be better silghtly hightthanI'm about to recomend. Getting a bench just right is worth any amount of trouble because it's themostimportant tool you'll have, It seems benches for power tools seem to be made at about kitchencounterheight. I don't know if this is better or it just allows people to workwithoutany back bending. 1stly make the bench top height that which you can rest your extendthumbs onwhen you're arms are comfortably extended by your sides.This is a good height for planing because any higher and you'll find yourelbows providing most of the power rather than your back and shoulder. Ifyouever see any very old benches in cabinet shops you'll see the benches areevenlower so the poor er people could put even more back and shoulder intoplaning.If the bench is too low it's uncomfortable. The width of the bench shouldn't be too wide, mine is 14 inches wide but 7feetlong. Wide benches encourage you to put too many tools on the bench andtheseamost always wind up on the floor after being knocked but the bench can'tbetoo long. A tool box/holder on one end is a good idea though ensure you canclean sawdust and small nails etc from it easily. I like a bench with provision for tool storage underneath because theseaddweight to the bench as well as the added structure of back, shelves, doorsetcmake the bench very rigid without having to become excessive with thescantlings of the bench structure. My bench top is a laminated one 70mm thick made up of 30mm x 70mmradiata pineand I cut bench dog slots in the two outside laminations. The end vise alsohasbench dog slots so the entire bench top is a vise which is why I don't thinkthe bench can be too long.I also have a side vise. Hardwood for the top would be better but the pine has done me for about15years on my current bench though I didn't expect it to last this long. If you make the top laminated as is mine make sure you allow for woodmovementacross it's width in the way you attach it to the bench carcase or else thetopwill split or buckle or both. Oil the top with boiled linseed oil daily untill it stops soaking in, let theoil harden and true the top, then oil it again and do this each year. You'llfind the oild not only protects it but hardens the wood and makes a goodsurface to pencil measurements etc right onto the benchtop that can besandedoff easily without dishing the surface of the wood. I better stop now, I've almost inspired myself into making another bench.Have fun Tony At 10:32 PM 12/29/99 -0700, Lowell K. Davis wrote:I'm building a new workbench. My question is, what would youinclude in designing the perfect workbench? Height, style etc. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_10973779==_.ALT This is almost as big a can of worms as plane irons and glues but I'vemade a few benches for different tasks from spar making to cabinetmakingand there are a few things I've found that suit me best giventhere will be a lot of hand planing and possibly chisel work at sometime. If you use power tools a lot the bench height may be better silghtlyhight than I'm about to recomend. Getting a bench just right is worth any amount of trouble becauseit's the most important tool you'll have, It seems benches for power tools seem to be made at about kitchencounterheight. I don't know if this is better or it just allows people to workwithout any back bending. 1stly make the bench top height that which you can rest your extendthumbs on when you're arms are comfortably extended by your sides.This is a good height for planing because any higher and you'll find yourelbows providing most of the power rather than your back and shoulder. Ifyou ever see any very old benches in cabinet shops you'll see the benchesare even lower so the poor er people could put even more back andshoulder into planing. If the bench is too low it's uncomfortable. The width of the bench shouldn't be too wide, mine is 14 inches wide but7 feet long. Wide benches encourage you to put too many tools on thebench and these amost always wind up on the floor after being knocked but easily. I like a bench with provision for tool storage underneath because theseadd weight to the bench as well as the added structure of back, shelves,doors etc make the bench very rigid without having to become excessivewith the scantlings of the bench structure. My bench top is a laminated one 70mm thick made up of 30mm x 70mmradiatapine and I cut bench dog slots in the two outside laminations. The endvise also has bench dog slots so the entire bench top is a vise which iswhy I don't think the bench can be too long.I also have a side vise. Hardwood for the top would be better but the pine has done me for about15 years on my current bench though I didn't expect it to last thislong. If you make the top laminated as is mine make sure you allow for woodmovement across it's width in the way you attach it to the bench carcaseor else the top will split or buckle or both. Oil the top with boiled linseed oil daily untill it stops soaking in, letthe oil harden and true the top, then oil it again and do this each year.You'll find the oild not only protects it but hardens the wood and makesa good surface to pencil measurements etc right onto the benchtop thatcan be sanded off easily without dishing the surface of the wood. I better stop now, I've almost inspired myself into making anotherbench.Have fun Tony At 10:32 PM 12/29/99 -0700, Lowell K. Davis wrote: /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_10973779==_.ALT-- from watson@cape-consult.co.uk Thu Dec 30 03:41:59 1999 Whatever you do PLEASE spend time getting the height right for you. Alltherest is secondary. Go round and try different heights, ie kitchen worktops,desks, friends benches etc and figure the right height for you. I reckonyou should be able to place your palms flat on the bench top with yourarmsslightly/comfortably bent but your back straight. The last bits important.If you get that right you can work for hours end feel no discomfort - get itwrong and your lower back will be talking to you by the end of a couple ofhours! I used to be a yacht rigger and the guy I worked with was 6'4". Inthe end we got so fed up with back ache at the end of a days splicing webuilt our own bench - it was great to stand up again- but nobody else coulduse because it was too high for them.Make the bench as long as you can - wall to wall if possible. Don't make ittoo wide - mine are about 2' - 2'6". This allows room to work at the frontand have space at the back for the tools you are using on the job, a tin ofvarnish, open book, tea, coffee, the cat etc without encroaching on the jobat hand. Always tidy away to tools between jobs.Set the blade if a jigsaw to an angle and cut a 6" square out of one end.Drill a 1" hole in the middle of the bit you cut out and put it back inplace. Put a trash can under the square hole. When you tidy up , lift thesquare clear and sweep the trash into the can below. This way thingsdon'tinadvertently fall into the trash can.I have three benches in my workshop, on clean (ie wood only), one dirty(metal and anything that may be greasy like the kids bikes!) and anotherforvarnishing. If you don't have the space for this consider having a cleanand dirty end to the bench.Under the bench I have a rack which takes all my medium sized offcuts. Addsweight too so the bench is very steady.Last thing, think about using power tools at the bench and where you wantthe sockets. If you can have them over head it well worth doing as youdon't get the flex trailing across other things.Tim.----- Original Message ----- I'm building a new workbench. My question is, what would youinclude in designing the perfect workbench? Height, style etc. from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Dec 30 07:12:00 1999 1999 05:11:56 PST Jim, sounds like formby's tung oil varnish. i know afellow that's been using formby's for 25 yrs withgreat success. timothy --- Jim Utzerath wrote:I've been using a wipe-on finish made locally andhave been pretty happywith it. I'm wondering if there is a down-side toit. It's called Arm-R-Seal (no connection, no spam,etc.) and it's described asa modified tung, urethane finish. Betterwoodworking supply places carryit. Contrary to what the Japan Woodworker sitesays, it is available ingloss. The main reason I like it is because you cantouch up chips andscratches easily, it is OK to use steel wool betweencoats and it's not toohard to polish with the usual abrasives after aweek's cure. It has no UVlight additives, but I don't think that's tooimportant. Any comments? ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.http://messenger.yahoo.com from saltwein@swbell.net Thu Dec 30 07:20:04 1999 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8)with ESMTP id for I agree completely with the proverbial can of worms that work benchdiscussion opens, and with that statement I will dive in and tell whatworks for me. The center of the male body occurs at the pubis bone, this point willcoincide with a height that will place the hands flat on a surface andthe elbows slightly flexed. This of course reflects an average physic.This is a good height to work at standing, and with a good stool, willalso do well while sitting. sixes glued together that I place on top of my work bench. I have astop at one end that has my small vise mounted that I use to straightennodes etc. My work bench is 3' x 12' and accessible from both sides well lit withtwo drawers and storage on the bottom. I wouldn't trade it for anything.I don't imagine that anyone who has a bench they have been working on When I had a narrower bench, I accumulated tools on it also. It justhappened faster and caused me problems sooner. My single most importantrequirement for a work bench would have to be stability. Make it asheavy as you can, there is nothing more frustrating than to have onesliding or moving about on you. My bench was formally from a naval training center. Maple and oak andvery, very heavy. The above statements are only my opinions and are not meant tocontradict or demean anyone elses method of working! Regards and Happy Holidays, SteveIndependence, MO from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Dec 30 07:21:27 1999 0000 1999 05:21:25 PST lowell, my bench is around 48". it's easier on theback. a well known rod maker suggested this heightand i'm glad he did. my work is right where i need itwithout stooping over. this wouldn't be a good height great. when i built this bench i figured i couldshorten it up if i didn't like it. i agree that longand narrow works best too. timothy --- "Lowell K. Davis" wrote:I'm building a new workbench. My question is, whatwould youinclude in designing the perfect workbench? Height,style etc. ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.http://messenger.yahoo.com from jfreeman@cyberport.com Thu Dec 30 07:46:14 1999 Jim, Have you got any rods using this finish that have been in service anylengthof time? Any problems yet? Jim F.----- Original Message ----- I've been using a wipe-on finish made locally and have been pretty happywith it. I'm wondering if there is a down-side to it. It's called Arm-R-Seal (no connection, no spam, etc.) and it's describedasa modified tung, urethane finish. Better woodworking supply placescarryit. Contrary to what the Japan Woodworker site says, it is available ingloss. The main reason I like it is because you can touch up chips andscratches easily, it is OK to use steel wool between coats and it's nottoohard to polish with the usual abrasives after a week's cure. It has no UVlight additives, but I don't think that's too important. Any comments? from sniderja@email.uc.edu Thu Dec 30 07:58:58 1999 Jim, I have used the heavier duty General Finishes Arm-R-Seal wipe onheavyduty oil & urethane top coat on 13 rods now and it has held up fine forvery heavily fished rods going on three years now. I know that is not agood test, but its all I have to offer. It certainly provides a lint-freefinish. I usually apply 3 coats of tung oil then seven coats of varnish,lightly steel wooling between coats. After the rod is completely dry Iwipedown (polish) with force with a soft cotton rag. The first coat takes ca.12-24 hours to dry, after that I can apply a coat in the morning and thenagain late at night. It comes in gloss and satin, and I have used satin on10 of the rods, gloss on 3. I far prefer the satin finish. I don't like toadmit that I use this finish, and hope one day to have a set up to use sparvarnish. Simply don't have the room at the moment and don't seem to findthe time to experiment with spraying, brushing, etc. Non-rod building flyfishers seem to like the appearance of my rods very much, so appearanceofthe finish is fine--just don't know how durable it is. I do wax my rods(and provide a small 35 mm film cannister with each rod and instructionsonuse) with Briwax. I should state, however, that I usually give my rodsaway!J. Snider At 11:17 PM 12/29/99 -0600, Jim Utzerath wrote:I've been using a wipe-on finish made locally and have been pretty happywith it. I'm wondering if there is a down-side to it. It's called Arm-R-Seal (no connection, no spam, etc.) and it's described asa modified tung, urethane finish. Better woodworking supply places carryit. Contrary to what the Japan Woodworker site says, it is available ingloss. The main reason I like it is because you can touch up chips andscratches easily, it is OK to use steel wool between coats and it's not toohard to polish with the usual abrasives after a week's cure. It has no UVlight additives, but I don't think that's too important. Any comments? from harry37@epix.net Thu Dec 30 08:04:38 1999 JAA25928 An idea for a bench top--Go to a kitchen supply shop and ask for blemish/defect countertops--Igot a 12 foor piece of continuous laminated countertop and it reallyworks nicely for guide layouts, etc, because of the length. I have adressmaker's tape measure taped on the top under clear wide wrappingtape, and it really makes guide layout easy. If you get a piece with theseamless backsplash, it keeps small parts (like guides and ferrules) from falling behind the bench into the no-man's land where you neverseem to be able to find all of them! They usually have or can getdamaged pieces, but you might not particularly like the laminate coloror style-but it's a workbench, not your kitchen. The one big downside,though, is that the countertop substrate is usually particle board, andit doesn't have any shear strength to handle bench dogs, etc., unlessyou reinforce it. Greg Watson's wrote: Whatever you do PLEASE spend time getting the height right for you. Alltherest is secondary. Go round and try different heights, ie kitchenworktops,desks, friends benches etc and figure the right height for you. I reckonyou should be able to place your palms flat on the bench top with yourarmsslightly/comfortably bent but your back straight. The last bitsimportant.If you get that right you can work for hours end feel no discomfort - getitwrong and your lower back will be talking to you by the end of a coupleofhours! I used to be a yacht rigger and the guy I worked with was 6'4". Inthe end we got so fed up with back ache at the end of a days splicing webuilt our own bench - it was great to stand up again- but nobody elsecoulduse because it was too high for them.Make the bench as long as you can - wall to wall if possible. Don't makeittoo wide - mine are about 2' - 2'6". This allows room to work at thefrontand have space at the back for the tools you are using on the job, a tin ofvarnish, open book, tea, coffee, the cat etc without encroaching on thejobat hand. Always tidy away to tools between jobs.Set the blade if a jigsaw to an angle and cut a 6" square out of one end.Drill a 1" hole in the middle of the bit you cut out and put it back inplace. Put a trash can under the square hole. When you tidy up , lift thesquare clear and sweep the trash into the can below. This way thingsdon'tinadvertently fall into the trash can.I have three benches in my workshop, on clean (ie wood only), one dirty(metal and anything that may be greasy like the kids bikes!) and anotherforvarnishing. If you don't have the space for this consider having a cleanand dirty end to the bench.Under the bench I have a rack which takes all my medium sized offcuts. Addsweight too so the bench is very steady.Last thing, think about using power tools at the bench and where youwantthe sockets. If you can have them over head it well worth doing as youdon't get the flex trailing across other things.Tim.----- Original Message -----From: Lowell K. Davis Sent: Thursday, December 30, 1999 5:32 AMSubject: Perfect Workbench I'm building a new workbench. My question is, what would youinclude in designing the perfect workbench? Height, style etc. from harry37@epix.net Thu Dec 30 08:10:06 1999 JAA26424 Jerry, When are you mounting guides? Before or after?--seems to be a rationaleto either approach-- Any thoughts from the list? Greg Jerry Snider wrote: Jim, I have used the heavier duty General Finishes Arm-R-Seal wipe onheavyduty oil & urethane top coat on 13 rods now and it has held up fine forvery heavily fished rods going on three years now. I know that is not agood test, but its all I have to offer. It certainly provides a lint-freefinish. I usually apply 3 coats of tung oil then seven coats of varnish,lightly steel wooling between coats. After the rod is completely dry Iwipedown (polish) with force with a soft cotton rag. The first coat takes ca.12-24 hours to dry, after that I can apply a coat in the morning and thenagain late at night. It comes in gloss and satin, and I have used satin on10 of the rods, gloss on 3. I far prefer the satin finish. I don't like toadmit that I use this finish, and hope one day to have a set up to use sparvarnish. Simply don't have the room at the moment and don't seem to findthe time to experiment with spraying, brushing, etc. Non-rod building flyfishers seem to like the appearance of my rods very much, so appearanceofthe finish is fine--just don't know how durable it is. I do wax my rods(and provide a small 35 mm film cannister with each rod andinstructions onuse) with Briwax. I should state, however, that I usually give my rodsaway!J. Snider At 11:17 PM 12/29/99 -0600, Jim Utzerath wrote:I've been using a wipe-on finish made locally and have been pretty happywith it. I'm wondering if there is a down-side to it. It's called Arm-R-Seal (no connection, no spam, etc.) and it's describedasa modified tung, urethane finish. Better woodworking supply placescarryit. Contrary to what the Japan Woodworker site says, it is available ingloss. The main reason I like it is because you can touch up chips andscratches easily, it is OK to use steel wool between coats and it's nottoohard to polish with the usual abrasives after a week's cure. It has noUVlight additives, but I don't think that's too important. Any comments? from mevans@acxiom.com Thu Dec 30 08:31:01 1999 (router,SLMail V3.2); Thu, 30 Dec 1999 08:37:30 -0600 (router,SLMail V3.2); Thu, 30 Dec 1999 08:31:10 -0600 (204.107.111.23::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V3.2); Thu, 30 Dec1999 08:31:10-0600 popmail.conway.acxiom.com ; Thu Dec 3008:31:09 1999 -0600 (5.5.2650.21) You can purchase very heavy pre-laminated hardwood bench tops from woodworking outfits - similar to the bench tops from companieslike Garrett Wade - if you don't have the facility to make one.Colco in Memphis carries them probably at a more attractive $. Catalogers also offer them. Above all, make the bench HEAVY, regardless of the application. -----Original Message----- An idea for a bench top-- from jfreeman@cyberport.com Thu Dec 30 08:40:55 1999 Lowell, Height is very important. Make sure it fits you. Find a comfortable planingheight where your elbow and forearm seem to fit best. I experimentedhere.If I were going to err, I would go short. You can alway use a 2x6 under yourforms to increase height later. Then make the thing as stout as you can.Mine is 8' long although I would go longer, if I were to do it again. Thetop frame is made from 2" x 6" with 1" plywood top. Lots of bracing there.Width is only 2' because of a small space. I don't think you want to get toowide anyway. Junks up easily. I have a big, square table behind my planningbench for other odds and ends - I have to wade through the junk to findanything. I used 4" x 4" legs and put a shelf nearer to the bottom on whichsits my machinist's chest, files, planes etc. On the back side of my benchis mounted by binder and binder guides. I work from both sides - each sidehaving it's own function. I also have a vice mounted on one end toward thebinder side. Mine cost about $100 in raw materials and would have beenmore,if I could have found better materials locally. If I had the room, I would have a seperate bench built for each functionplus an extra for good measure. Try to get the assembly as level as possible and get the top flat aspossible. This will show up when you start trying to straighten gluedsections. Achieving this will require that you get as good of materials asyou can find. Straight boards, etc. I used softwoods because I'm cheap, andI drove them nuts at the lumberyard going through their stock. Use whatyoucan afford. I'm now looking into bench dogs. You might want to incorporate some ofthoseinto your thinking a la Garrision. Good luck,Jim----- Original Message ----- I'm building a new workbench. My question is, what would youinclude in designing the perfect workbench? Height, style etc. from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Thu Dec 30 09:36:59 1999 Hello to All,I am making a7'6" 4wt for a friend and he would like a very fast dry fly taper, does the list have any suggestions. He is a graphite fly fisher that I would like to convert to bamboo.Thanks Joe from rambo2_98@yahoo.com Thu Dec 30 09:40:05 1999 0000 1999 07:40:01 PST door slab 6'8" and 2', 2'4" or 2'6" wide on bracingsof 2"x4" works fine as a planing et. al. bench. Itmight be a bit challenging to attach a vise, but itlikely can be done if attached to the 2"x4" bracing. The length is set at 6'8", but the heigth and thewidth (to a lesser degree) are adjustable.__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.http://messenger.yahoo.com from DNHayashida@aol.com Thu Dec 30 09:53:14 1999 My requirements were a little different than what you are asking about,Mark Metcalf and I made a workbench for my Morgan Mill. The main feature ofthebench is the front edge hangs over 1 1/2 inches and is beveled back 45degreeson the underside. The Morgan Mill is adjusted for tapers by set screws onthebottom. We drilled access holes through the bench top to get to themwithouthaving to unbolt the mill and tip it over or use the overhanging bench dogsTom supplies with the mill. Unless you are going to bolt the bench to a wall or to the floor, I vote for a widebench. Too narrow and you run the risk of tipping it over, sinceworkbencheshave to be higher than normal tables. Mine is 24" wide. I also vote forheavy.My top is made out of 1 1/2 inch thick particle board with a mahoganyveneerplywood for the actual work surface and bottom. Not elegant, but it wascheap and it is heavy. The plywood reinforces the top if you want to use benchdogs orclamp on items like vises on the edge. Particle board by itself tends to rip outor crumble after a while. Height is important. For me it was belt bucklehigh and Icould get my upper body weight into the plane, but didn't have to stoopover toomuch so that my lower back hurt. I soaked the top with tung oil for aweek,heating it up with a hair dryer every day, then used a light coat ofFormby'swipe on finish. I guess the bottom line is I use it all the time, and I don't getany back pain. I kept all my receipts and total cash outlay was $65.00Darryl Hayashida from flytyr@southshore.com Thu Dec 30 10:16:30 1999 Thu, 30 Dec 1999 10:16:24 -0600 Lowell,I read somewhere that the top of the bench should be as high asyour bellybutton. I did this and thought it was too high till Istarted planing. I found that it was perfect.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Lowell K. Davis wrote: I'm building a new workbench. My question is, what would youinclude in designing the perfect workbench? Height, style etc. from dpeaston@wzrd.com Thu Dec 30 10:20:08 1999 Jim, Jerry, All, I have been using a similar coating on and off for the past 10 years. I wastaught how to do it by a fine wood working instructor I had.In hisprocedure you make your own "Tung-Urethane" finish. His procedure was asfollows: 1. Rub on and polish off two coats of "Antique Oil" (I use Minwax).Dry 24 hr between coats.Fine steel wool lightly2. Mix 1 part urethane "spar" with 4 parts "antique oil" (I use MinwaxHelmsman "Spar Urethane")Wipe on mix with lint free cloth or paper towel.Wipe to thin coat with clean towel before mix gets sticky.Allow to dry.Look for irregularities in finish and wet sand with 600.Fine steel wool again.3. Repeat step #24. Repeat step #3 using 1:1 urethane:antique oil5. Repeat step #36. Repeat step #57. Repeat step #6 using 4:1 urethane:antique oil8. Rub out with rottenstone and mineral oil9. Wipe down with mineral spirits, wrap on guides10. Finish guide wraps as usual. Watch for varnish "over flow"11. Wipe on and wipe off final coat 4:1 (wipe off fairly quickly)12. Rub with rottenstone/mineral oil, follow with 3M Imperial, Wax with McQuire's auto polish. This give a fairly thin, tough lusterous finish. I use it for restorationbecause I like the "patina" it gives rather than the brand new look. Therod I have had the longest with this coating is a Weber by Edwards whichhas been fished for about 9 years. It has some dings chips and scratches.Repeat #10-#12and you can make the rod presentable again. Best of New Years At 08:59 AM 12/30/1999 -0500, Jerry Snider wrote:Jim, I have used the heavier duty General Finishes Arm-R-Seal wipe onheavyduty oil & urethane top coat on 13 rods now and it has held up fine forvery heavily fished rods going on three years now. I know that is not agood test, but its all I have to offer. It certainly provides a lint-freefinish. I usually apply 3 coats of tung oil then seven coats of varnish,lightly steel wooling between coats. After the rod is completely dry Iwipedown (polish) with force with a soft cotton rag. The first coat takes ca.12-24 hours to dry, after that I can apply a coat in the morning and thenagain late at night. It comes in gloss and satin, and I have used satin on10 of the rods, gloss on 3. I far prefer the satin finish. I don't like toadmit that I use this finish, and hope one day to have a set up to use sparvarnish. Simply don't have the room at the moment and don't seem to findthe time to experiment with spraying, brushing, etc. Non-rod building flyfishers seem to like the appearance of my rods very much, so appearanceofthe finish is fine--just don't know how durable it is. I do wax my rods(and provide a small 35 mm film cannister with each rod and instructionsonuse) with Briwax. I should state, however, that I usually give my rodsaway!J. Snider At 11:17 PM 12/29/99 -0600, Jim Utzerath wrote:I've been using a wipe-on finish made locally and have been pretty happywith it. I'm wondering if there is a down-side to it. It's called Arm-R-Seal (no connection, no spam, etc.) and it's describedasa modified tung, urethane finish. Better woodworking supply placescarryit. Contrary to what the Japan Woodworker site says, it is available ingloss. The main reason I like it is because you can touch up chips andscratches easily, it is OK to use steel wool between coats and it's nottoohard to polish with the usual abrasives after a week's cure. It has no UVlight additives, but I don't think that's too important. Any comments? Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from bob@downandacross.com Thu Dec 30 10:26:28 1999 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) HI everyone:Several people have been mentioning the Morgan Hand Mill recently,between Darryl and the lucky XMas guys. Somethings I have wondered are:- You have your strips straightened, and you pin it into the mill's bed. How many passes does it take to get it to the final dimensions?-Do you adjust the taper all at once, or do you plane it out in stages and work down the spline?Thanks in advance,Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY from dmcfall@ODYSSEE.NET Thu Dec 30 10:26:54 1999 I have heard that the shops who finish the interiors of semi-trailers us aflooring which come as prefabbed hardwood. It might be worthwhileinvestigating this. Just a suggestion as I have never followed up on this. Regards Dave M from richard.nantel@videotron.ca Thu Dec 30 10:35:34 1999 Internet Mail Serversims.3.5.1999.07.30.00.05.p8)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, Since tung oil has been proven to actually attract moisture rather thanrepel it, why would it be chosen as a finish for a fly rod? Following isinformation posted on the list some time ago by Don Anderson showing therelative moiture-repellent properties of different compounds: (Don, I hopeyou don't mind my re-posting this) In the May/June 1987 issue of Fine Woodworking there was an articleentitled "Protecting Wood from Humidity". While I would have liked to postthe article intact, I couldn't get permission of the authors although Itried for a number of months.So, I will quote from the article a number of things that may shed light onthe recent discussion. * The Forest Products Laboratory completed a study that examined howwellfinishes resisted water vapor.* Of the 91 finishes tested, no coating entirely prevents water fromabsorbing.* Some popular finishes linseed oil, tung oil and lacquer presented littlebarrier to water vapor.* Sample of smooth pine were used.* Test consisted of exposing two pieces of pine cut from the same board -both were exposed to 80F and 30% humidity until they could gain no morewater- weighted - one coated - then exposed to1, 7, and 14 days @ 80Fand90% humidity.* dipped coats fared better than brushed coats due to depth of coat*degree of moisture vapor protection depends on: how thick the film,whether the coating contains pigments, kind of resin, how long the woodwasexposed* authors found that the longer the finished pieces were exposed to highhumidity, the poorer their water retardance, eventually water vapor findsits way in.* latex or water based varnishes are not very effective* tung oil by itself is not very effective although when blended with otherresins, effectiveness increases* First coat may seal the surface, second coat provides a defect freesurface - each coat after that does decrease moisture uptake but inreducing amounts The article included a table of finishes and their effectiveness. The tableshows the moisture-excluding effectiveness [ MEE ] of a variety offinishes. Rating are given for 1, 2 and 3 coats after 14 days of exposure @80F and 90% humidity. Higher number represent greater effectivness. Material 1 coat 2 coats 3coats Melted paraffin wax 95 N/AN/A 2 part epoxy sheathing 54 8891 Alum. flake pigmented polyurethanegloss varnish 41 7784 Two part polyurethanegloss varnish 0 4666 Epoxy gloss varnish 3 4666 Polyurethane gloss varnish 11 3644 Polyurethane satin varnish 8 2943 Soya alkyd phenolic/tung oilgloss spar varnish 0 1530 Acrylic gloss latex varnish -1 610 Tung Oil -1 -12 Brazilian carnauba paste wax 0 0 1 Linseed Oil -5 -40 Spray furniture polish lemonoil/silicone 0 00 So there it is - paraffin wax and the herd - so for those folks who believethat tung oil seals the cane - sorry - just t'aint so.The best of the bunch for the cane builder seems to be Polyurethane polyvarnish. Don -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, December 30, 1999 12:17 AM Subject: Wipe on finishes I've been using a wipe-on finish made locally and have beenpretty happywith it. I'm wondering if there is a down-side to it. It's called Arm-R-Seal (no connection, no spam, etc.) andit's described asa modified tung, urethane finish. Better woodworking supplyplaces carryit. Contrary to what the Japan Woodworker site says, it isavailable ingloss. The main reason I like it is because you can touch upchips andscratches easily, it is OK to use steel wool between coatsand it's not toohard to polish with the usual abrasives after a week's cure.It has no UVlight additives, but I don't think that's too important. Anycomments? from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Dec 30 10:37:34 1999 mail02.missouri.edu> This discussion of benches has been great, like so many on this list. As abamboo newbie, however, this reminds me of something I've seen inphotography, which I've been doing seriously for 25 years or so. I foundthat only one or two tools are really essential - lenses for photos, perhapssharp plane blades for rods - and the rest are mostly a matter ofconvenience or efficiency. I know many people who've spent thousands oncameras and darkroom equipment because they sensed their photos weremissingsomething - but the problem was not their gear. Of course I do love to fondle my state of the art 240mm f5.6 Apo- Symmarlens(hope this is an adults only list). I just don't think us rookies need to bediscouraged by, or blame our problems on, the absence of a greatworkbenchetc etc. -----Original Message-----From: Jim & Sallyann Freeman Sent: Thursday, December 30, 1999 7:40 AM Cc: RodmakersSubject: Re: Perfect Workbench Lowell, Height is very important. Make sure it fits you. Find acomfortable planingheight where your elbow and forearm seem to fit best. Iexperimented here.If I were going to err, I would go short. You can alway usea 2x6 under yourforms to increase height later. Then make the thing as stoutas you can.Mine is 8' long although I would go longer, if I were to doit again. Thetop frame is made from 2" x 6" with 1" plywood top. Lots ofbracing there.Width is only 2' because of a small space. I don't think youwant to get toowide anyway. Junks up easily. I have a big, square tablebehind my planningbench for other odds and ends - I have to wade through thejunk to findanything. I used 4" x 4" legs and put a shelf nearer to thebottom on whichsits my machinist's chest, files, planes etc. On the backside of my benchis mounted by binder and binder guides. I work from bothsides - each sidehaving it's own function. I also have a vice mounted on oneend toward thebinder side. Mine cost about $100 in raw materials and wouldhave been more,if I could have found better materials locally. If I had the room, I would have a seperate bench built foreach functionplus an extra for good measure. Try to get the assembly as level as possible and get the topflat aspossible. This will show up when you start trying tostraighten gluedsections. Achieving this will require that you get as goodof materials asyou can find. Straight boards, etc. I used softwoods becauseI'm cheap, andI drove them nuts at the lumberyard going through theirstock. Use what youcan afford. I'm now looking into bench dogs. You might want toincorporate some of thoseinto your thinking a la Garrision. Good luck,Jim----- Original Message -----From: Lowell K. Davis Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 11:32 PMSubject: Perfect Workbench I'm building a new workbench. My question is, what wouldyouinclude in designing the perfect workbench? Height, styleetc. from utzerath@execpc.com Thu Dec 30 10:44:48 1999 Hey. Seems there are some wipe-on finish fans coming out of thewoodwork.Please understand that two years ago I was only building graphite rods; soyou professional rodmakers need to forgive my wasting bandwidth. Jerry seems to have a longer track record than I but seems pleased withthedurability question. I have a two year old refinished rod I've used forlessons (I think bamboo is great for beginners-slow enough to see theaction) and it has its share of nicks but has held up well. I was wonderingif a first coat of real tung oil (as someone mentioned) might improveadhesion and minimize chipping. Regarding technique: I like the bamboo blank to be like a graphite blankwith ferrules. It should be completely finished before adding guides orgrip, etc. I originally used spar to protect guide wraps; but it left tooobvious a witness line; so I'm using wipe-on for that now too. SometimesIuse dope-type CP. I used nylon originally, but now I prefer silk. I wipe everything down lightly with mineral spirit just before applyingeachcoat (slightly thinned) with a fresh sponge brush. Then I turn on thefinishing motor and let everything level for a couple of hours. After 24hours I steel wool with 0000 and make sure any uglies are gone. Thefinishseems to build up higher on the corners (which I consider desirable). Afterabout four or five coats, there appears an "orange peel" surface right alongthe corners. That's my stopping point. After a week's cure, I wet sandwith 1500 on a hard sanding block till each surface is matte and flat, buffwith white rouge on a medium fast wheel, and (thanks to someone on thislist) rub down hard with McGuire #9. from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Dec 30 10:47:52 1999 0000 1999 08:47:49 PST YES! MAKE THE ROD! I just don'tthink us rookies need to bediscouraged by, or blame our problems on, theabsence of a great workbenchetc etc. ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.http://messenger.yahoo.com from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Dec 30 10:54:10 1999 mail02.missouri.edu> Given, as you say below, that no finish really seals a bamboo rod(especially if the part of the rod under the cork has not been varnished,which is the traditional way) the only effect of different finishes wouldbeto somewhat change the amount of time needed for a rod to change inresponseto ambient humidity. That means my rods here in Missouri are going to beabout as moist as rods can get short of soaking them constantly,regardlessof the finish used. Does anyone have any actual data about the effect of ambient moisture onarod's performance? In its absence, and considering the many successfulrodsmade with tung oil finishes, this seems to be more a matter of personalpreference (occasionally verging on religion) than of evidence. -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, December 30, 1999 10:31 AM Subject: RE: Wipe on finishes Since tung oil has been proven to actually attract moisturerather thanrepel it, why would it be chosen as a finish for a fly rod?Following isinformation posted on the list some time ago by Don Andersonshowing therelative moiture-repellent properties of differentcompounds: (Don, I hopeyou don't mind my re-posting this) In the May/June 1987 issue of Fine Woodworking there was anarticleentitled "Protecting Wood from Humidity". While I would haveliked to postthe article intact, I couldn't get permission of the authorsalthough Itried for a number of months.So, I will quote from the article a number of things thatmay shed light onthe recent discussion. * The Forest Products Laboratory completed a study thatexamined how wellfinishes resisted water vapor.* Of the 91 finishes tested, no coating entirely preventswater fromabsorbing.* Some popular finishes linseed oil, tung oil and lacquerpresented littlebarrier to water vapor.* Sample of smooth pine were used.* Test consisted of exposing two pieces of pine cut from thesame board -both were exposed to 80F and 30% humidity until they couldgain no morewater- weighted - one coated - then exposed to1, 7, and 14days @ 80F and90% humidity.* dipped coats fared better than brushed coats due to depthof coat*degree of moisture vapor protection depends on: how thickthe film,whether the coating contains pigments, kind of resin, howlong the wood wasexposed* authors found that the longer the finished pieces wereexposed to highhumidity, the poorer their water retardance, eventuallywater vapor findsits way in.* latex or water based varnishes are not very effective* tung oil by itself is not very effective although whenblended with otherresins, effectiveness increases* First coat may seal the surface, second coat provides adefect freesurface - each coat after that does decrease moisture uptakebut inreducing amounts The article included a table of finishes and theireffectiveness. The tableshows the moisture-excluding effectiveness [ MEE ] of avariety offinishes. Rating are given for 1, 2 and 3 coats after 14days of exposure @80F and 90% humidity. Higher number represent greatereffectivness. Material 1coat 2 coats 3 coats Melted paraffin wax 95N/A N/A 2 part epoxy sheathing 5488 91 Alum. flake pigmented polyurethanegloss varnish 4177 84 Two part polyurethanegloss varnish 046 66 Epoxy gloss varnish 346 66 Polyurethane gloss varnish 1136 44 Polyurethane satin varnish 829 43 Soya alkyd phenolic/tung oilgloss spar varnish 015 30 Acrylic gloss latex varnish -16 10 Tung Oil -1-1 2 Brazilian carnauba paste wax 00 1 Linseed Oil -5-4 0 Spray furniture polish lemonoil/silicone 00 0 So there it is - paraffin wax and the herd - so for thosefolks who believethat tung oil seals the cane - sorry - just t'aint so.The best of the bunch for the cane builder seems to bePolyurethane polyvarnish. Don -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu UtzerathSent: Thursday, December 30, 1999 12:17 AM Subject: Wipe on finishes I've been using a wipe-on finish made locally and havebeenpretty happywith it. I'm wondering if there is a down-side to it. It's called Arm-R-Seal (no connection, no spam, etc.) andit's described asa modified tung, urethane finish. Better woodworkingsupplyplaces carryit. Contrary to what the Japan Woodworker site says, itisavailable ingloss. The main reason I like it is because you can touchupchips andscratches easily, it is OK to use steel wool between coatsand it's not toohard to polish with the usual abrasives after a week'scure.It has no UVlight additives, but I don't think that's too important.Anycomments? from RMargiotta@aol.com Thu Dec 30 11:18:49 1999 Just about any varnish can be made to be wipe-on finish just by thinningit. I've done this with spar, spar urethane, and Rockhard tabletop varnishes. Start with a 1:1 ratio of varnish and good quality mineral spirits andadjust the ratio from there, depending on the viscosity of the varnish. Rub onwith smooth strokes using a lint free cloth. Sand lightly between coats with1000 or 1500 grit sanding paper (I lubricate it with linseed oil to keep it from loading.) You need a lot more coats with this method because the varnishis so thin, but it dries very quickly and goes on fast. I've only varnished this way prior to guides being wrapped. Another variation I've heard of with regard to oil/varnish mixtures (but haven't tried) is to mix equal parts of spar, linseed or tung oil, and mineral spirits. Sounds like it may be similar to the Antique Oil because I think it's been thinned with mineral spirits. --Rich from bob@downandacross.com Thu Dec 30 11:31:17 1999 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) boundary="=====================_9073013==_.ALT" --=====================_9073013==_.ALT Thanks Bill,So basically, you keep taking off .005 or so until you get close. 5 minutes, WOW!Happy Y2k,Bob At 11:03 AM 12/30/99 -0600, you wrote:Hi Bob - I have built more than a dozen rods on a Morgan Mill. The taper isput in in two stages. You first rough mill to a triangular cross sections,then taper. The number of passes varies depending on the size of theinitial strip and the final dimension. I usually expect to spend about 5minutes per strip on rough milling and another five minutes on finaltapering. Tips take longer than butts because more material is removed. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, December 30, 1999 10:22 AM Subject: hand mill HI everyone:Several people have been mentioning the Morgan Hand Mill recently,betweenDarryl and the lucky XMas guys. Somethings I have wondered are:- You have your strips straightened, and you pin it into the mill's bed.How many passes does it take to get it to the final dimensions?-Do you adjust the taper all at once, or do you plane it out in stages andwork down the spline?Thanks in advance,Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY Bob Mauluccidownandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716.836.8297 Vox716.867.0523 Cell716.836.2229 Faxbob@downandacross.com--=====================_9073013==_.ALT Thanks Bill,So basically, you keep taking off .005 or so until you get close. 5minutes, WOW!Happy Y2k,Bob At 11:03 AM 12/30/99 -0600, you wrote:Hi Bob - sections, the about 5minutes per strip on rough milling and another five minutes on final removed. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- ] HI everyone:Several people have been mentioning the Morgan Hand Mill recently,between are:- You have your strips straightened, and you pin it into the mill's bed. How many passes does it take to get it to the final dimensions?-Do you adjust the taper all at once, or do you plane it out in stagesand work down the spline?Thanks in advance,Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY Bob Mauluccidownandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716.836.8297 Vox716.867.0523 Cell716.836.2229 Faxbob@downandacross.com --=====================_9073013==_.ALT-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Dec 30 11:43:00 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 30 Dec 1999 11:34:12 -0600 I don't know if the PHY "Dry Fly" rod is in the archives, but it was thesole blank that he got from Heddon, and must have been pretty darned good, GMA----- Original Message ----- Hello to All,I am making a7'6" 4wt for a friend and he would like a very fast dryfly taper, does the list have any suggestions. He is a graphite fly fisherthat I would like to convert to bamboo.ThanksJoe from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Dec 30 11:54:53 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 30 Dec 1999 11:55:14 -0600 A glaring omission is no type of true spar varnish was shown to be tested.Strange. GMA----- Original Message ----- Since tung oil has been proven to actually attract moisture rather thanrepel it, why would it be chosen as a finish for a fly rod? Following isinformation posted on the list some time ago by Don Anderson showingtherelative moiture-repellent properties of different compounds: (Don, Ihopeyou don't mind my re-posting this) In the May/June 1987 issue of Fine Woodworking there was an articleentitled "Protecting Wood from Humidity". While I would have liked topostthe article intact, I couldn't get permission of the authors although Itried for a number of months.So, I will quote from the article a number of things that may shed lightonthe recent discussion. * The Forest Products Laboratory completed a study that examined howwellfinishes resisted water vapor.* Of the 91 finishes tested, no coating entirely prevents water fromabsorbing.* Some popular finishes linseed oil, tung oil and lacquer presented littlebarrier to water vapor.* Sample of smooth pine were used.* Test consisted of exposing two pieces of pine cut from the same board-both were exposed to 80F and 30% humidity until they could gain no morewater- weighted - one coated - then exposed to1, 7, and 14 days @ 80Fand90% humidity.* dipped coats fared better than brushed coats due to depth of coat*degree of moisture vapor protection depends on: how thick the film,whether the coating contains pigments, kind of resin, how long the woodwasexposed* authors found that the longer the finished pieces were exposed to highhumidity, the poorer their water retardance, eventually water vaporfindsits way in.* latex or water based varnishes are not very effective* tung oil by itself is not very effective although when blended withotherresins, effectiveness increases* First coat may seal the surface, second coat provides a defect freesurface - each coat after that does decrease moisture uptake but inreducing amounts The article included a table of finishes and their effectiveness. Thetableshows the moisture-excluding effectiveness [ MEE ] of a variety offinishes. Rating are given for 1, 2 and 3 coats after 14 days of exposure@80F and 90% humidity. Higher number represent greater effectivness. Material 1 coat 2 coats 3 coats Melted paraffin wax 95 N/A N/A 2 part epoxy sheathing 54 88 91 Alum. flake pigmented polyurethanegloss varnish 41 77 84 Two part polyurethanegloss varnish 0 46 66 Epoxy gloss varnish 3 46 66 Polyurethane gloss varnish 11 36 44 Polyurethane satin varnish 8 29 43 Soya alkyd phenolic/tung oilgloss spar varnish 0 15 30 Acrylic gloss latex varnish -1 6 10 Tung Oil -1 -1 2 Brazilian carnauba paste wax 0 0 1 Linseed Oil -5 -4 0 Spray furniture polish lemonoil/silicone 0 0 0 So there it is - paraffin wax and the herd - so for those folks whobelievethat tung oil seals the cane - sorry - just t'aint so.The best of the bunch for the cane builder seems to be Polyurethane polyvarnish. Don -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, December 30, 1999 12:17 AM Subject: Wipe on finishes I've been using a wipe-on finish made locally and have beenpretty happywith it. I'm wondering if there is a down-side to it. It's called Arm-R-Seal (no connection, no spam, etc.) andit's described asa modified tung, urethane finish. Better woodworking supplyplaces carryit. Contrary to what the Japan Woodworker site says, it isavailable ingloss. The main reason I like it is because you can touch upchips andscratches easily, it is OK to use steel wool between coatsand it's not toohard to polish with the usual abrasives after a week's cure.It has no UVlight additives, but I don't think that's too important. Anycomments? from iananders@hotmail.com Thu Dec 30 12:10:23 1999 Thu, 30 Dec 1999 10:09:50 PST Hi All: I'm new to the group and apologize if this ground has been covered ad infinitum. I'm a professional graphite rod builder recently bitten by the bamboo bug. I'd like to know if anyone knows where I can find plans for making adjustable planing forms? I'm at the stage of acquiring tools and other materials to get started with bamboo. The only problem after that is finding some space to work in. I'd also appreciate any links to tapers for spey rods. I thought I'd jump right into the fire to begin with! Cheers,IanMcAllister RodworksSeattle, WA______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from dpeaston@wzrd.com Thu Dec 30 13:24:02 1999 Rich, Tim et al.I forgot to say what "Antique Oil" I use in the "wiping varnish."My favorite is "Antique Oil by Minwax" in the red Can. This is "34% LinseedAlkyd Resin + Mineral Spirits 66%" I have also Used "Watco Danish Oil Finish" also made by Minwax. Thisfinish is designed to be very penetrating and therefor has a lighter soventand probably less solids. The composition is not stated on the can. I haveuse less of this to thin the polyurethane. It also seems to retard dryingwhereas the "Antique Oil" tends to slightly speed drying. In my area I have not been able to find the "Antique Oil" anymore. Minwaxis replacing it with a "Wipeing Varnish" which is Poyurethane based. It ismy impression that adding some Linseed Alkyd Resin to the Polyurethanegives a finish that rubs out better and is a bit more resistant to chipisetc. I expect that by mixing Poly with a somewhat dilute spar varnish youcould get the same effect. Perhaps the suggestion that: "Just about any varnish can be made to be wipe-on finish just by thinningit. I've done this with spar, spar urethane, and Rockhard tabletop varnishes. Start with a 1:1 ratio of varnish and good quality mineral spirits andadjust the ratio from there, depending on the viscosity of the varnish. ---------snip---->------- -------------------------Another variation I've heard of with regard to oil/varnish mixtures (but haven't tried) is to mix equal parts of spar, linseed or tung oil, and mineral spirits. Sounds like it may be similar to the Antique Oil because I think it's been thinned with mineral spirits. --Rich" -Doug Easton Hey. Seems there are some wipe-on finish fans coming out of thewoodwork.Please understand that two years ago I was only building graphite rods;soyou professional rodmakers need to forgive my wasting bandwidth. Jerry seems to have a longer track record than I but seems pleased withthedurability question. I have a two year old refinished rod I've used forlessons (I think bamboo is great for beginners-slow enough to see theaction) and it has its share of nicks but has held up well. I waswonderingif a first coat of real tung oil (as someone mentioned) might improveadhesion and minimize chipping. Regarding technique: I like the bamboo blank to be like a graphite blankwith ferrules. It should be completely finished before adding guides orgrip, etc. I originally used spar to protect guide wraps; but it left tooobvious a witness line; so I'm using wipe-on for that now too. Sometimes Iuse dope-type CP. I used nylon originally, but now I prefer silk. I wipe everything down lightly with mineral spirit just before applyingeachcoat (slightly thinned) with a fresh sponge brush. Then I turn on thefinishing motor and let everything level for a couple of hours. After 24hours I steel wool with 0000 and make sure any uglies are gone. Thefinishseems to build up higher on the corners (which I consider desirable). Afterabout four or five coats, there appears an "orange peel" surface rightalongthe corners. That's my stopping point. After a week's cure, I wet sandwith 1500 on a hard sanding block till each surface is matte and flat,buffwith white rouge on a medium fast wheel, and (thanks to someone on thislist) rub down hard with McGuire #9. Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from bob@downandacross.com Thu Dec 30 14:18:58 1999 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) A short while back I mentioned that I ordered some Cordura tubes withlined compartments. They turned out great. I also got special lengths, even custom embroidered at $3 extra. I have no interest other than giving you all a nice option for tubes. The 4 I ordered came out great, sturdy, nice looking, and personalized. I think I will use them from now on. Here is their site:http://www.redcedarmfg.com/Straight.htmHope this doesn't violate any protocol, Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY from rhd360@maine.edu Thu Dec 30 14:58:05 1999 Level 310) via TCPwith SMTP ; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 15:57:42 EST Interesting question and interesting replies so far. I use two benches and both are up against walls with white peg board andasomeshelving behind each. One is an old woodworker's bench, about 130 yearsold. I got it from the daughter of a naval architect who got it from an old pianofactory in Meriden, Ct. It has a maple top several inches thick, 8 feetlongwith a wooden vise built into one end, and a new one on the front and offtoone end. The most useful features are: weight--it doesn't move when I'mbangingaround. The legs and cross bars are stout, heavy, and firmly boltedtogether. There are holes for bench dogs along the front which I use often, forexamplekeeping a planing form steady; a fairly narrow working area and behind itarecessed pocket about 3 inches deep, 12 inches wide and running the fulllengthof the bench. Along the back is a narrow fence with holes for commonlyusedtools--files, squares, awls, screw drivers etc. The recessed area is veryhandly because it prevents tools in use from getting knocked off etc. Theentire bench is narrow enough so that I can reach most areas of the pegboardor shelving behind the bench without bending over much. There is oneshelfbelow which is recessed about 3 inches (relative to the front edge of thebenchtop). For my use this is an important feature because I typically spendlotsof time sitting (on a "bar stool" made for this bench) with feet on theshelf. (If the shelf was not recessed a bit, it wouldn't be quite as comfortable oryou wouldn't be able to sit quite as close to the bench. Make sense?) Originally, this bench was a bit too low for my comfort so I added pillowblocks under the legs. The bottom shelf was set at a height comfortableforsitting as described above. The second bench has a different purpose. It's a big flat surface basicallymade from plywood and 2x4s used for all sorts of big and small projects. Thekey here is weight and really tight joints on the legs and cross bars toprevent movement. that I can attach clamps anywhere along the front. (For instance, oncethefirst 6" of a strip is rough planed, I can clamp the strip and rough planingform to the bench top, and there is nothing along the bottom edge tointerferwith setting a clamp.) Incidentally, for one bench I installed elec. outlets about 8" higher thanthebench top, and for the other at about level with the bench top (two foreachbench). Higher is better and more easily accessed because of all the awls,files and so on sticking up in the fence at the back of the bench, orbecauseon the normal clutter on the working surface. Both of these working benches had earlier versions. I'll spare you all themistakes I made in finally getting to this arrangement. As is almostalwaysthe case, the first version of anything I make never seems to be the last,although at the time I always think it is. I'm now on my third binder, andplanning a forth version, for example. Same with the varnishing set up.Maybeit's the long Maine winters. Hope this helps, Bob. At 10:32 PM 12/29/99 -0700, you wrote:I'm building a new workbench. My question is, what would youinclude in designing the perfect workbench? Height, style etc. Robert M. Milardo, Ph.D.Professor of Family Relations University of MaineOrono, ME 04469(207) 581-3128(207) 581-3120 FAX from flytyr@southshore.com Thu Dec 30 15:14:00 1999 I have also used these tubes, They are about the best I have seen for theprice. I have no financial interest, just well satisfied with the productandservice.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com bob maulucci wrote: A short while back I mentioned that I ordered some Cordura tubes withlinedcompartments. They turned out great. I also got special lengths, evencustom embroidered at $3 extra. I have no interest other than giving youall a nice option for tubes. The 4 I ordered came out great, sturdy, nicelooking, and personalized. I think I will use them from now on. Here istheir site:http://www.redcedarmfg.com/Straight.htmHope this doesn't violate any protocol, Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Dec 30 17:29:10 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Thu, 30 Dec 1999 17:20:24 -0600 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0148_01BF52EB.7B732880" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0148_01BF52EB.7B732880 I've just glued up some old Monty. and H-I sections that had separation, =with Elmer's Pro-Bond glue. It's honey colored, so should blend well =with the cane when set. As instructed, I wet all the strips, while =separated with straight pins. I let them set about 5- min's., and then =applied the glue liberally to all sides of the pieces. I lightly wiped =off the excess, and bound each section with small rubber bands. Within =less than 10 minutes, the glue began to show foam on all the joints, so =I think I got good coverage. This time tomorrow, I'll cut the bands, and report on the results. This =is my first use of a poly-urethane glue, and I think an interesting =test. GMA ------=_NextPart_000_0148_01BF52EB.7B732880 I've just glued up some old Monty. and H-I = that had separation, with Elmer's Pro-Bond glue. It's honey colored, so = blend well with the cane when set. As instructed, I wet all the strips, = separated with straight pins. I let them set about 5- min's., and then = the glue liberally to all sides of the pieces. I lightly wiped off the = and bound each section with small rubber bands. Within less than 10 = coverage. This time tomorrow, I'll cut the bands, and= the results. This is my first use of a poly-urethane glue, and I think = interesting test. GMA ------=_NextPart_000_0148_01BF52EB.7B732880-- from dmcfall@ODYSSEE.NET Thu Dec 30 19:15:28 1999 I am trying to repair an extension handle for an English Bamboo rod. Inorder to do this I will have to make a stud which is threaded to go intothe rod handle. I do not have any English thread cutting dies andhopefully some one on the list can steer me in the correct direction. Thethread o.d. is 0.352" (approx) and the thread pitch looks like about 18 tpi. Please reply directly to dmcfall@odyssee.net Many thanks and Season Greetings Dave M from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Thu Dec 30 20:15:46 1999 Ian, I am in the process of building a set. I've followed the plans at ThomasPenrose's site(http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Coffeehouse/5262/forms.htm). I was able to get every thing I've needed through McMaster Carr(http://www.mcmaster.com). - no financial interest etc - and the localhardware store. Paul ----- Original Message ----- Hi All: I'm new to the group and apologize if this ground has been covered adinfinitum. I'm a professional graphite rod builder recently bitten by thebamboo bug. I'd like to know if anyone knows where I can find plans formaking adjustable planing forms? I'm at the stage of acquiring tools andother materials to get started with bamboo. The only problem after thatisfinding some space to work in. I'd also appreciate any links to tapers for spey rods. I thought I'd jumpright into the fire to begin with! Cheers,IanMcAllister RodworksSeattle, WA______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from piscator@crosswinds.net Thu Dec 30 21:11:47 1999 (envelope- from piscator@crosswinds.net) boundary="------------FD788220336FBE307D1EF092" --------------FD788220336FBE307D1EF092 Hi All- I just got a nice South Bend 290 2/2 in the shop for somerestoration attention. But I don't have any black/orange jasper silk.Anyone out there have a spool or part of a spool that they will sell ortrade me for?? Thanks in advance for the rush of responses I am sure will be forthcoming. Brian --------------FD788220336FBE307D1EF092 Hi All- black/orange they will sell or trade me for??Thanks in advance for the rush of responses I am sure will be forthcoming.Brian --------------FD788220336FBE307D1EF092-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Dec 31 06:15:52 1999 Well, it's only a couple of hrs here till Midnight. I haven't heard a peep from NZ where it's currently 2:22am, presumably it's still there. My bath tub is full of water, the pantry has plenty of caned food and mostimportantly my fingers are crossed.Just in case there is a great void soon, happy new year to all. Tony/*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from sniderja@email.uc.edu Fri Dec 31 08:00:43 1999 I mount the guides AFTER completing the finish. I use Dave LeClair'smethod nice. I will defer to Dave to describe his technique.J. Snider. At 09:02 AM 12/30/1999 -0500, Greg Kuntz wrote:Jerry, When are you mounting guides? Before or after?--seems to be arationaleto either approach-- Any thoughts from the list? Greg Jerry Snider wrote: Jim, I have used the heavier duty General Finishes Arm-R-Seal wipe onheavyduty oil & urethane top coat on 13 rods now and it has held up fine forvery heavily fished rods going on three years now. I know that is not agood test, but its all I have to offer. It certainly provides a lint-freefinish. I usually apply 3 coats of tung oil then seven coats of varnish,lightly steel wooling between coats. After the rod is completely dry Iwipedown (polish) with force with a soft cotton rag. The first coat takes ca.12-24 hours to dry, after that I can apply a coat in the morning and thenagain late at night. It comes in gloss and satin, and I have used satin on10 of the rods, gloss on 3. I far prefer the satin finish. I don't like toadmit that I use this finish, and hope one day to have a set up to usesparvarnish. Simply don't have the room at the moment and don't seem tofindthe time to experiment with spraying, brushing, etc. Non-rod buildingflyfishers seem to like the appearance of my rods very much, soappearance ofthe finish is fine--just don't know how durable it is. I do wax my rods(and provide a small 35 mm film cannister with each rod andinstructions on>> use) with Briwax. I should state, however, that I usuallygive my rods away!J. Snider At 11:17 PM 12/29/99 -0600, Jim Utzerath wrote:I've been using a wipe-on finish made locally and have been prettyhappywith it. I'm wondering if there is a down-side to it. It's called Arm-R-Seal (no connection, no spam, etc.) and it's describedasa modified tung, urethane finish. Better woodworking supply placescarryit. Contrary to what the Japan Woodworker site says, it is available ingloss. The main reason I like it is because you can touch up chips andscratches easily, it is OK to use steel wool between coats and it's nottoohard to polish with the usual abrasives after a week's cure. It has noUVlight additives, but I don't think that's too important. Any comments? from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Dec 31 08:15:53 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 31 Dec 1999 08:07:01 -0600 I watched the new year in via ABC this morning, and except for a winddamageproblem, it went smoothly. A guy even got money from an ATM machine,shortlyafter 2000 began ! Gee, if we were there fishing, we wouldn't even care what happened ! H.N.Y., to all, GMA----- Original Message ----- Well, it's only a couple of hrs here till Midnight. I haven't heard a peep from NZ where it's currently 2:22am, presumably it's still there. My bath tub is full of water, the pantry has plenty of caned food andmostimportantly my fingers are crossed.Just in case there is a great void soon, happy new year to all. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from sniderja@email.uc.edu Fri Dec 31 08:23:35 1999 * tung oil by itself is not very effective although when blended with other resins, effectiveness increases. I think you have answered your own question. However, I use tung oilbecause- -well, just because! The initial reason I began using tung oil wasthat after gluing up the strip and sanding off the glue, I was in a hurryto see what the rod looked like. A quick wipe with tung oil and the bamboosimply ''jumps"out at me--going from a dull, listless appearing stick to abeautiful piece of wood--in seconds. It has since merely become a ritual.Since I immediately follow this up with the oil/urethane finish, and it iscompatible, I will likely continue my ritual. After all, my rod building isa pleasure to me, pure enjoyment, and if this adds to my enjoyment, so beit. The rod does seem a shade darker after using tung oil in comparison tousing ONLY oil/urethane. The latter is likely my own imagination workingovertime--but again, it has become part of my rod building "ritual." Notvery scientific, I know, but these are my reasons for using tung oil. OnceI set up a dipping/draining technique using spar varnish, I likely willchange and develop a new ritual.Happy New Year to you all. J. Snider. At 11:31 AM 12/30/1999 -0500, Richard Nantel wrote:Since tung oil has been proven to actually attract moisture rather thanrepel it, why would it be chosen as a finish for a fly rod? Following isinformation posted on the list some time ago by Don Anderson showingtherelative moiture-repellent properties of different compounds: (Don, Ihopeyou don't mind my re-posting this) In the May/June 1987 issue of Fine Woodworking there was an articleentitled "Protecting Wood from Humidity". While I would have liked topostthe article intact, I couldn't get permission of the authors although Itried for a number of months.So, I will quote from the article a number of things that may shed lightonthe recent discussion. * The Forest Products Laboratory completed a study that examined howwellfinishes resisted water vapor.* Of the 91 finishes tested, no coating entirely prevents water fromabsorbing.* Some popular finishes linseed oil, tung oil and lacquer presented littlebarrier to water vapor.* Sample of smooth pine were used.* Test consisted of exposing two pieces of pine cut from the same board-both were exposed to 80F and 30% humidity until they could gain no morewater- weighted - one coated - then exposed to1, 7, and 14 days @ 80Fand90% humidity.* dipped coats fared better than brushed coats due to depth of coat*degree of moisture vapor protection depends on: how thick the film,whether the coating contains pigments, kind of resin, how long the woodwasexposed* authors found that the longer the finished pieces were exposed to highhumidity, the poorer their water retardance, eventually water vapor findsits way in.* latex or water based varnishes are not very effective* tung oil by itself is not very effective although when blended withotherresins, effectiveness increases* First coat may seal the surface, second coat provides a defect freesurface - each coat after that does decrease moisture uptake but inreducing amounts The article included a table of finishes and their effectiveness. The tableshows the moisture-excluding effectiveness [ MEE ] of a variety offinishes. Rating are given for 1, 2 and 3 coats after 14 days of exposure@80F and 90% humidity. Higher number represent greater effectivness. Material 1 coat 2 coats 3coats Melted paraffin wax 95 N/AN/A 2 part epoxy sheathing 54 8891 Alum. flake pigmented polyurethanegloss varnish 41 7784 Two part polyurethanegloss varnish 0 4666 Epoxy gloss varnish 3 4666 Polyurethane gloss varnish 11 3644 Polyurethane satin varnish 8 2943 Soya alkyd phenolic/tung oilgloss spar varnish 0 1530 Acrylic gloss latex varnish -1 610 Tung Oil -1 -12 Brazilian carnauba paste wax 0 0 1 Linseed Oil -5 -40 Spray furniture polish lemonoil/silicone 0 00 So there it is - paraffin wax and the herd - so for those folks who believethat tung oil seals the cane - sorry - just t'aint so.The best of the bunch for the cane builder seems to be Polyurethane polyvarnish. Don -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, December 30, 1999 12:17 AM Subject: Wipe on finishes I've been using a wipe-on finish made locally and have beenpretty happywith it. I'm wondering if there is a down-side to it. It's called Arm-R-Seal (no connection, no spam, etc.) andit's described asa modified tung, urethane finish. Better woodworking supplyplaces carryit. Contrary to what the Japan Woodworker site says, it isavailable ingloss. The main reason I like it is because you can touch upchips andscratches easily, it is OK to use steel wool between coatsand it's not toohard to polish with the usual abrasives after a week's cure.It has no UVlight additives, but I don't think that's too important. Anycomments? from lblove@cableone.net Fri Dec 31 08:38:17 1999 MicrosoftSMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11);Fri, 31 Dec 1999 07:38:12 -0700 hey guys,I went this morning to get some charcoal for this afternoon. Thelocal Wal-Mart is sold out of Coleman fuel, shot gun shells, flash lights,and charcoal. I got a call from Ft. Collins Co. last night(he wanted tocall early in case the world ended) and the price of ro water has gone from$.50 a gallon to $1.0 in the last week. If N.Z. went off line nobody called me this morning to report it. I have agood friend that lives in Hamilton. No news is good news. Hope everyone has a fun new yearBrad----- Original Message ----- I watched the new year in via ABC this morning, and except for a winddamageproblem, it went smoothly. A guy even got money from an ATM machine,shortlyafter 2000 began ! Gee, if we were there fishing, we wouldn't even care what happened ! H.N.Y., to all, GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" Sent: Friday, December 31, 1999 6:24 AMSubject: Y2K Well, it's only a couple of hrs here till Midnight. I haven't heard apeep from NZ where it's currently 2:22am, presumably it's still there. My bath tub is full of water, the pantry has plenty of caned food andmostimportantly my fingers are crossed.Just in case there is a great void soon, happy new year to all. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/ from bob@downandacross.com Fri Dec 31 08:38:49 1999 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Hi Ian:Sorry I took so long. There are two Spey tapers I know of. I have one from the archives 12/4/97 that was a 13 1/2 E. Gale and Sons. The other is a Payne from Jack Howell's book. I saw a Payne spey rod up close the other day. It belonged to Seymour Knox, the late Buffalo Sabres owner. He was a pretty avid fisherman, as his wife still is. The rod was huge, but just breathtakingly beautiful. It is hard to argue with those that mumble and drool about how good Payne's cosmetics were.If you cannot find either of these two (I would really consider the book a must have), I will post for you.Who out there is going to make the ferrules for Ian?Best regards and Happy 2000,Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY from edriddle@mindspring.com Fri Dec 31 08:41:52 1999 Dave, are you out there?I'd appreciate you sharing your technique. If it's in the archives, pleasesay, and I'll search there.TIA and Happy Y2K to all.Ed----- Original Message----- I mount the guides AFTER completing the finish. I use Dave LeClair'smethod nice. I will defer to Dave to describe his technique.J. Snider. from bob@downandacross.com Fri Dec 31 08:48:46 1999 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) Hi Jerry,As far as the drip tube setup goes, I would try it. I spent about an hour gathering the materials and setting it up. It works great, and I am virtually dust free in the midst of a basement where I sand in my splices coupler from the 1" PVC to the 3/4 valve ($.99) and some PVCglue/bonding stuff ($2). I then bought a pipe ribbon heater ($20) and I was ready to go. This setup works great. I let the heater run for a couple hours to warm the varnish. I set the drip for as slow as I can manage, and it does not sag. I leave it in the tube for a day until it dries. Self contained and easy to use with a room that has lttle overhead. I fill a can with thinner and prop it up under the setup to keep the drain clean while this dries. (By the way, the whole setup is Darryl's idea. The heater is Art's idea. Thanksguys!)WIpe on your Tung OIl to finish, and then dip later. The best of both worlds.Best regards, At 09:24 AM 12/31/99 -0500, you wrote:* tung oil by itself is not very effective although when blended withotherresins, effectiveness increases. I think you have answered your own question. However, I use tung oilbecause- -well, just because! The initial reason I began using tung oilwasthat after gluing up the strip and sanding off the glue, I was in a hurryto see what the rod looked like. A quick wipe with tung oil and thebamboosimply ''jumps"out at me--going from a dull, listless appearing stick to abeautiful piece of wood--in seconds. It has since merely become a ritual.Since I immediately follow this up with the oil/urethane finish, and it iscompatible, I will likely continue my ritual. After all, my rod building isa pleasure to me, pure enjoyment, and if this adds to my enjoyment, so beit. The rod does seem a shade darker after using tung oil in comparison tousing ONLY oil/urethane. The latter is likely my own imagination workingovertime--but again, it has become part of my rod building "ritual." Notvery scientific, I know, but these are my reasons for using tung oil. OnceI set up a dipping/draining technique using spar varnish, I likely willchange and develop a new ritual.Happy New Year to you all.J. Snider. At 11:31 AM 12/30/1999 -0500, Richard Nantel wrote:Since tung oil has been proven to actually attract moisture rather thanrepel it, why would it be chosen as a finish for a fly rod? Following isinformation posted on the list some time ago by Don Anderson showingtherelative moiture-repellent properties of different compounds: (Don, Ihopeyou don't mind my re-posting this) In the May/June 1987 issue of Fine Woodworking there was an articleentitled "Protecting Wood from Humidity". While I would have liked topostthe article intact, I couldn't get permission of the authors although Itried for a number of months.So, I will quote from the article a number of things that may shed lightonthe recent discussion. * The Forest Products Laboratory completed a study that examined howwellfinishes resisted water vapor.* Of the 91 finishes tested, no coating entirely prevents water fromabsorbing.* Some popular finishes linseed oil, tung oil and lacquer presentedlittlebarrier to water vapor.* Sample of smooth pine were used.* Test consisted of exposing two pieces of pine cut from the sameboard -both were exposed to 80F and 30% humidity until they could gain nomorewater- weighted - one coated - then exposed to1, 7, and 14 days @ 80Fand90% humidity.* dipped coats fared better than brushed coats due to depth of coat*degree of moisture vapor protection depends on: how thick the film,whether the coating contains pigments, kind of resin, how long thewood wasexposed* authors found that the longer the finished pieces were exposed to highhumidity, the poorer their water retardance, eventually water vaporfindsits way in.* latex or water based varnishes are not very effective* tung oil by itself is not very effective although when blended withotherresins, effectiveness increases* First coat may seal the surface, second coat provides a defect freesurface - each coat after that does decrease moisture uptake but inreducing amounts The article included a table of finishes and their effectiveness. Thetableshows the moisture-excluding effectiveness [ MEE ] of a variety offinishes. Rating are given for 1, 2 and 3 coats after 14 days of exposure@80F and 90% humidity. Higher number represent greater effectivness. Material 1 coat 2 coats 3 coats Melted paraffin wax 95 N/A N/A 2 part epoxy sheathing 54 88 91 Alum. flake pigmented polyurethanegloss varnish 41 77 84 Two part polyurethanegloss varnish 0 46 66 Epoxy gloss varnish 3 46 66 Polyurethane gloss varnish 11 36 44 Polyurethane satin varnish 8 29 43 Soya alkyd phenolic/tung oilgloss spar varnish 0 15 30 Acrylic gloss latex varnish -1 6 10 Tung Oil -1 -1 2 Brazilian carnauba paste wax 0 0 1 Linseed Oil -5 -4 0 Spray furniture polish lemonoil/silicone 0 0 0 So there it is - paraffin wax and the herd - so for those folks whobelievethat tung oil seals the cane - sorry - just t'aint so.The best of the bunch for the cane builder seems to be Polyurethanepolyvarnish. Don -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, December 30, 1999 12:17 AM Subject: Wipe on finishes I've been using a wipe-on finish made locally and have beenpretty happywith it. I'm wondering if there is a down-side to it. It's called Arm-R-Seal (no connection, no spam, etc.) andit's described asa modified tung, urethane finish. Better woodworking supplyplaces carryit. Contrary to what the Japan Woodworker site says, it isavailable ingloss. The main reason I like it is because you can touch upchips andscratches easily, it is OK to use steel wool between coatsand it's not toohard to polish with the usual abrasives after a week's cure.It has no UVlight additives, but I don't think that's too important. Anycomments? Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY from if6were9@bellsouth.net Fri Dec 31 09:00:19 1999 JAA01759; I'm not sure what is used on the floor of a dry van or reefer trailer, butflatbed trailers have a South American wood on them called Apitong. Thewood I'veseen in the floors of dry vans looks to be the same thing, but I don't knowifit is. This is a very tough wood, but I don't think it would be very wellsuited for building a table. If you use it green (the only way I've ever seenit delivered to an end user), it will warp and twist enough that it may pullyour table apart at worst, or make it unlevel at least. The people that usethis wood store it tightly bound until the moisture content falls to acertainlevel before installing it to avoid having it pull loose from it's fasteners.Even after it's cured, if it's not anchored to something substantial, it willwarp up when it gets wet. If memory serves me correctly, when used fortrailer flooring, it's an inch thick by 4 inches wide, ship lapped and leftrough finished on the two wide sides. The other problem with using thiswood manufacturing facility, the only place I know that it is available isthroughlocal trailer dealers in (very expensive) pre-cut kits as a replacement foraworn floor.As for good table top material, I've found that an old solid wood doormakesthe best work surface for the money. I picked up the three I'm using at ajunkstore for $10 each. Pat McFall David wrote: I have heard that the shops who finish the interiors of semi-trailers us aflooring which come as prefabbed hardwood. It might be worthwhileinvestigating this. Just a suggestion as I have never followed up on this. Regards Dave M from bob@downandacross.com Fri Dec 31 09:02:56 1999 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) boundary="=====================_3462244==_.ALT" --=====================_3462244==_.ALT I am currently making this rod after over cutting rough strips for an 8015 Guide Special. The taper for the tip listed in Howell's book seems odd to me. Here's the last three measurements. This is the 1952 version.35 .10440 .09045 .068Anyone have any experience with this rod or this taper. The drop seems so dramatic.Thanks,Bob Mauluccidownandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716.836.8297 Vox716.867.0523 Cell716.836.2229 Faxbob@downandacross.com-- =====================_3462244==_.ALT I am currently making this rod after over cutting rough strips seems odd to me. Here's the last three measurements. This is the 1952version. Anyone have any experience with this rod or this taper. The dropseems so dramatic.Thanks, Bob Mauluccidownandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716.836.8297 Vox716.867.0523 Cell716.836.2229 Faxbob@downandacross.com --=====================_3462244==_.ALT-- from sniderja@email.uc.edu Fri Dec 31 09:30:08 1999 Thanks, Bob. I have most of the set up stuff for draining--have had it forsome time. Just need to get in the mood to try it. I will likely get upone morning and simply say "do it!"thanks again.J. Snider. At 09:44 AM 12/31/1999 -0500, bob maulucci wrote:Hi Jerry,As far as the drip tube setup goes, I would try it. I spent about an hour gathering the materials and setting it up. It works great, and I am virtually dust free in the midst of a basement where I sand in my splices coupler from the 1" PVC to the 3/4 valve ($.99) and some PVCglue/bonding stuff ($2). I then bought a pipe ribbon heater ($20) and I was ready to go. This setup works great. I let the heater run for a couple hours to warmthe varnish. I set the drip for as slow as I can manage, and it does not sag. I leave it in the tube for a day until it dries. Self contained and easy to use with a room that has lttle overhead. I fill a can with thinner and prop it up under the setup to keep the drain clean while this dries. (By the way, the whole setup is Darryl's idea. The heater is Art's idea. Thanksguys!)WIpe on your Tung OIl to finish, and then dip later. The best of bothworlds.Best regards, At 09:24 AM 12/31/99 -0500, you wrote:* tung oil by itself is not very effective although when blended withotherresins, effectiveness increases. I think you have answered your own question. However, I use tung oilbecause- -well, just because! The initial reason I began using tung oilwasthat after gluing up the strip and sanding off the glue, I was in a hurryto see what the rod looked like. A quick wipe with tung oil and thebamboosimply ''jumps"out at me--going from a dull, listless appearing stick toabeautiful piece of wood--in seconds. It has since merely become aritual.Since I immediately follow this up with the oil/urethane finish, and itiscompatible, I will likely continue my ritual. After all, my rod building isa pleasure to me, pure enjoyment, and if this adds to my enjoyment, sobeit. The rod does seem a shade darker after using tung oil in comparisontousing ONLY oil/urethane. The latter is likely my own imaginationworkingovertime--but again, it has become part of my rod building "ritual." Notvery scientific, I know, but these are my reasons for using tung oil. OnceI set up a dipping/draining technique using spar varnish, I likely willchange and develop a new ritual.Happy New Year to you all.J. Snider. At 11:31 AM 12/30/1999 -0500, Richard Nantel wrote:Since tung oil has been proven to actually attract moisture rather thanrepel it, why would it be chosen as a finish for a fly rod? Following isinformation posted on the list some time ago by Don Anderson showingtherelative moiture-repellent properties of different compounds: (Don, Ihopeyou don't mind my re-posting this) In the May/June 1987 issue of Fine Woodworking there was an articleentitled "Protecting Wood from Humidity". While I would have liked topostthe article intact, I couldn't get permission of the authors although Itried for a number of months.So, I will quote from the article a number of things that may shed lightonthe recent discussion. * The Forest Products Laboratory completed a study that examined howwellfinishes resisted water vapor.* Of the 91 finishes tested, no coating entirely prevents water fromabsorbing.* Some popular finishes linseed oil, tung oil and lacquer presentedlittlebarrier to water vapor.* Sample of smooth pine were used.* Test consisted of exposing two pieces of pine cut from the sameboard -both were exposed to 80F and 30% humidity until they could gain nomorewater- weighted - one coated - then exposed to1, 7, and 14 days @80F and90% humidity.* dipped coats fared better than brushed coats due to depth of coat*degree of moisture vapor protection depends on: how thick the film,whether the coating contains pigments, kind of resin, how long thewood wasexposed* authors found that the longer the finished pieces were exposed tohighhumidity, the poorer their water retardance, eventually water vaporfindsits way in.* latex or water based varnishes are not very effective* tung oil by itself is not very effective although when blended withotherresins, effectiveness increases* First coat may seal the surface, second coat provides a defect freesurface - each coat after that does decrease moisture uptake but inreducing amounts The article included a table of finishes and their effectiveness. Thetableshows the moisture-excluding effectiveness [ MEE ] of a variety offinishes. Rating are given for 1, 2 and 3 coats after 14 days ofexposure @80F and 90% humidity. Higher number represent greater effectivness. Material 1 coat 2 coats 3 coats Melted paraffin wax 95 N/A N/A 2 part epoxy sheathing 54 88 91 Alum. flake pigmented polyurethanegloss varnish 41 77 84 Two part polyurethanegloss varnish 0 46 66 Epoxy gloss varnish 3 4666 Polyurethane gloss varnish 11 36 44 Polyurethane satin varnish 8 29 43 Soya alkyd phenolic/tung oilgloss spar varnish 0 15 30 Acrylic gloss latex varnish -1 6 10 Tung Oil -1 -1 2 Brazilian carnauba paste wax 0 0 1 Linseed Oil -5 -4 0 Spray furniture polish lemonoil/silicone 0 0 0 So there it is - paraffin wax and the herd - so for those folks whobelievethat tung oil seals the cane - sorry - just t'aint so.The best of the bunch for the cane builder seems to be Polyurethanepolyvarnish. Don -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu UtzerathSent: Thursday, December 30, 1999 12:17 AM Subject: Wipe on finishes I've been using a wipe-on finish made locally and have beenpretty happywith it. I'm wondering if there is a down-side to it. It's called Arm-R-Seal (no connection, no spam, etc.) andit's described asa modified tung, urethane finish. Better woodworking supplyplaces carryit. Contrary to what the Japan Woodworker site says, it isavailable ingloss. The main reason I like it is because you can touch upchips andscratches easily, it is OK to use steel wool between coatsand it's not toohard to polish with the usual abrasives after a week's cure.It has no UVlight additives, but I don't think that's too important. Anycomments? Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY from bob@downandacross.com Fri Dec 31 09:59:07 1999 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) boundary="=====================_6829223==_.ALT" --=====================_6829223==_.ALT HI Ed:Here's the setup I currently have been trying. I notched out a corner of my bench (near a leg) and I clamped a 5' section of tube there, with enough clearance for a container on the bottom to catch the varnish or mineral spirits when they run through. The valve is a nice copper one with a large lever. It has a ball style insert inside that allows the varnish to pass through. The ribbon heater is 12" in length and is wrapped evenly around the tube and plugs in to warm the tube up when there is varnish in it. Fill with varnish. It takes about a quart, I guess. I thin it very little, but this does seem to help. I guess I used about 10:1 with good results. After about 2 hrs or more, I have to drain the varnish out so I can tilt the tube and put the section in. (you may not have to do this if you have headroom.) I use a small Pony clamp and a string. The clamp fits right into the tubes mouth. BE careful for the displacement of the varnish when you completely lower the blank in. I wrap the top end of the outer tube with a towel. I put the warm varnish back in and let it sit a bit. Then I open the valve think you need to be exact as long as it is very very slow and consistent. I also hang the butt sections downwards and that seems to keep sagsaway. I cover the top end with a clean dust free rag. When done all dripping out,Takes about 1/2 an hour @60" at 2" per minute) I submerge the valve in mineral spirits by replacing the varnish can and propping the solvent upwards from the bottom. (MAKE SURE YOU DO NOT FILL THE TUBE WITHMINERAL SPIRITS!) Then I leave the whole thing to dry without touching it for 12-24 hours. I leave the heater on for most of this time. When dry, I hang in my closet and follow the preparation steps for the next coat.Please note, that I extracted all these ideas from Darrly H and the heater from Art Port's private e-mails to me. All Sir D's post are in the archives under "drip tube." I think they begin at about 1995.Good luck. If it is easy enough for me, anyone can figure a way out tovarnish.Bob At 10:32 AM 12/31/99 -0500, you wrote:Bob:Jeez, this sounds like something that maybe even I could make and learnhowto use!You've given a lot of detail, but I'll need more. Has this assembly and itsuse been described anywhere more fully? If so, where?Thanks.Ed-----Original Message-----From: bob maulucci Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Friday, December 31, 1999 9:52 AMSubject: RE: Wipe on finishes Hi Jerry,As far as the drip tube setup goes, I would try it. I spent about an hourgathering the materials and setting it up. It works great, and I amvirtually dust free in the midst of a basement where I sand in mysplices coupler from the 1" PVC to the 3/4 valve ($.99) and some PVCglue/bondingstuff ($2). I then bought a pipe ribbon heater ($20) and I was ready togo.This setup works great. I let the heater run for a couple hours to warmthevarnish. I set the drip for as slow as I can manage, and it does not sag. Ileave it in the tube for a day until it dries. Self contained and easy touse with a room that has lttle overhead. I fill a can with thinner andpropit up under the setup to keep the drain clean while this dries. (By theway, the whole setup is Darryl's idea. The heater is Art's idea. Thanksguys!)WIpe on your Tung OIl to finish, and then dip later. The best of bothworlds.Best regards, Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY -- =====================_6829223==_.ALT HI Ed:Here's the setup I currently have been trying. I notched out a corner ofmy bench (near a leg) and I clamped a 5' section of tube there, withenough clearance for a container on the bottom to catch the varnish ormineral spirits when they run through. The valve is a nice copper onewith a large lever. It has a ball style insert inside that allows thevarnish to pass through. The ribbon heater is 12" in length and iswrapped evenly around the tube and plugs in to warm the tube up whenthere is varnish in it. Fill with varnish. It takes about a quart, Iguess. I thin it very little, but this does seem to help. I guess I usedabout 10:1 with good results. After about 2 hrs or more, I have to drainthe varnish out so I can tilt the tube and put the section in. (you maynot have to do this if you have headroom.) I use a small Pony clamp and astring. The clamp fits right into the tubes mouth. BE careful for thedisplacement of the varnish when you completely lower the blank in. Iwrap the top end of the outer tube with a towel. I put the warm varnishback in and let it sit a bit. Then I open the valve for a very slowdrain, and I watch it because the rate will change. I don't think youneed to be exact as long as it is very very slow and consistent. I alsohang the butt sections downwards and that seems to keep sags away. Icover the top end with a clean dust free rag. When done all drippingout,Takes about 1/2 an hour @60" at 2" per minute) I submergethe valve in mineral spirits by replacing the varnish can and proppingthe solvent upwards from the bottom. (MAKE SURE YOU DO NOT FILL THETUBEWITH MINERAL SPIRITS!) Then I leave the whole thing to dry withouttouching it for 12-24 hours. I leave the heater on for most of this time.When dry, I hang in my closet and follow the preparation steps for thenext coat.Please note, that I extracted all these ideas from Darrly H and theheater from Art Port's private e-mails to me. All Sir D's post are in thearchives under "drip tube." I think they begin at about1995.Good luck. If it is easy enough for me, anyone can figure a way outto varnish.Bob At 10:32 AM 12/31/99 -0500, you wrote:Bob:Jeez, this sounds like something that maybe even I could make and learnhowto use! and its Thanks.Ed-----Original Message----- hour am splices ($10), a glue/bonding to go. warm the sag. I easy to and prop the Thanksguys!) bothworlds. Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY=00 --=====================_6829223==_.ALT-- from flytyr@southshore.com Fri Dec 31 10:10:03 1999 Fri, 31 Dec 1999 10:09:19 -0600 I also use the drip tube and find it works great. Got a 8' clear plasticFlorescent guard tube from an electric supply house for less than 5.00,this madetwo 4' tubes. Mounted the tube vertical in a plywood frame. Made aplywood plug forthe bottom of the tube and installed a lever type 1/4" petcock drain valve.Attached a 4" handle on the drain valve lever, this makes it easier toadjust theflow or shut it off at the wraps. I can watch the varnish drain in the tube.Thetube is filled with varnish from the container and drain back into the samecontainer. In being able to see what the varnish is doing, I can stop at eachwrapand guide to let the varnish drain from around the wraps. I can see theflow ofvarnish on the tube walls and adjust the drain so that the flow on thewalls keepup with the draining varnish. Have done five rods so far and no runs. Thetube isstill clear. Total cost 7.00. I do find it takes about an hour to do a rod withguides installed. To keep the rod from touching the walls of the tube,three evenlyspaced round head quilt pins are stuck into the masking tape wrapped attheferrules.Would be glad to send a scan to anyone interested after my son gets backwith thezip drive.The clear tube is not my idea, someone mentioned it on this list.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com bob maulucci wrote: Hi Jerry,As far as the drip tube setup goes, I would try it. I spent about an hourgathering the materials and setting it up. It works great, and I amvirtually dust free in the midst of a basement where I sand in my splices coupler from the 1" PVC to the 3/4 valve ($.99) and some PVCglue/bondingstuff ($2). I then bought a pipe ribbon heater ($20) and I was ready to go.This setup works great. I let the heater run for a couple hours to warmthevarnish. I set the drip for as slow as I can manage, and it does not sag. Ileave it in the tube for a day until it dries. Self contained and easy touse with a room that has lttle overhead. I fill a can with thinner and propit up under the setup to keep the drain clean while this dries. (By theway, the whole setup is Darryl's idea. The heater is Art's idea. Thanksguys!)WIpe on your Tung OIl to finish, and then dip later. The best of bothworlds.Best regards, At 09:24 AM 12/31/99 -0500, you wrote:* tung oil by itself is not very effective although when blended withotherresins, effectiveness increases. I think you have answered your own question. However, I use tung oilbecause- -well, just because! The initial reason I began using tung oilwasthat after gluing up the strip and sanding off the glue, I was in a hurryto see what the rod looked like. A quick wipe with tung oil and thebamboosimply ''jumps"out at me--going from a dull, listless appearing stick toabeautiful piece of wood--in seconds. It has since merely become aritual.Since I immediately follow this up with the oil/urethane finish, and itiscompatible, I will likely continue my ritual. After all, my rod buildingisa pleasure to me, pure enjoyment, and if this adds to my enjoyment, sobeit. The rod does seem a shade darker after using tung oil in comparisontousing ONLY oil/urethane. The latter is likely my own imaginationworkingovertime--but again, it has become part of my rod building "ritual." Notvery scientific, I know, but these are my reasons for using tung oil. OnceI set up a dipping/draining technique using spar varnish, I likely willchange and develop a new ritual.Happy New Year to you all.J. Snider. At 11:31 AM 12/30/1999 -0500, Richard Nantel wrote:Since tung oil has been proven to actually attract moisture ratherthanrepel it, why would it be chosen as a finish for a fly rod? Following isinformation posted on the list some time ago by Don Anderson showingtherelative moiture-repellent properties of different compounds: (Don, Ihopeyou don't mind my re-posting this) In the May/June 1987 issue of Fine Woodworking there was an articleentitled "Protecting Wood from Humidity". While I would have liked topostthe article intact, I couldn't get permission of the authors although Itried for a number of months.So, I will quote from the article a number of things that may shedlight onthe recent discussion. * The Forest Products Laboratory completed a study that examinedhow wellfinishes resisted water vapor.* Of the 91 finishes tested, no coating entirely prevents water fromabsorbing.* Some popular finishes linseed oil, tung oil and lacquer presentedlittlebarrier to water vapor.* Sample of smooth pine were used.* Test consisted of exposing two pieces of pine cut from the sameboard -both were exposed to 80F and 30% humidity until they could gain nomorewater- weighted - one coated - then exposed to1, 7, and 14 days @80F and90% humidity.* dipped coats fared better than brushed coats due to depth of coat*degree of moisture vapor protection depends on: how thick the film,whether the coating contains pigments, kind of resin, how long thewood wasexposed* authors found that the longer the finished pieces were exposed tohighhumidity, the poorer their water retardance, eventually water vaporfindsits way in.* latex or water based varnishes are not very effective* tung oil by itself is not very effective although when blended withotherresins, effectiveness increases* First coat may seal the surface, second coat provides a defect freesurface - each coat after that does decrease moisture uptake but inreducing amounts The article included a table of finishes and their effectiveness. Thetableshows the moisture-excluding effectiveness [ MEE ] of a variety offinishes. Rating are given for 1, 2 and 3 coats after 14 days ofexposure @80F and 90% humidity. Higher number represent greater effectivness. Material 1 coat 2coats 3 coats Melted paraffinwax 95 N/A N/A 2 part epoxysheathing 54 88 91 Alum. flake pigmented polyurethaneglossvarnish 41 7784 Two part polyurethaneglossvarnish 0 4666 Epoxy glossvarnish 3 46 66 Polyurethane glossvarnish 11 36 44 Polyurethane satinvarnish 8 29 43 Soya alkyd phenolic/tung oilgloss sparvarnish 0 1530 Acrylic gloss latexvarnish -1 6 10 TungOil -1 -12 Brazilian carnauba pastewax 0 0 1 LinseedOil -5 -40 Spray furniture polish lemonoil/silicone 0 00 So there it is - paraffin wax and the herd - so for those folks whobelievethat tung oil seals the cane - sorry - just t'aint so.The best of the bunch for the cane builder seems to be Polyurethanepolyvarnish. Don -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu UtzerathSent: Thursday, December 30, 1999 12:17 AM Subject: Wipe on finishes I've been using a wipe-on finish made locally and have beenpretty happywith it. I'm wondering if there is a down-side to it. It's called Arm-R-Seal (no connection, no spam, etc.) andit's described asa modified tung, urethane finish. Better woodworking supplyplaces carryit. Contrary to what the Japan Woodworker site says, it isavailable ingloss. The main reason I like it is because you can touch upchips andscratches easily, it is OK to use steel wool between coatsand it's not toohard to polish with the usual abrasives after a week's cure.It has no UVlight additives, but I don't think that's too important. Anycomments? Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY from jfreeman@cyberport.com Fri Dec 31 10:24:27 1999 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0083_01BF5370.C66C6BA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0083_01BF5370.C66C6BA0 I forgot to mention that I used lag screws - not nails - to put mine =together. A bunch of them, in fact. They were hard as hell to get all =the way in even with a pilot hole and wax. I probably would look to a = ------=_NextPart_000_0083_01BF5370.C66C6BA0 Lowell, I forgot to mention that I used lag = nails - to put mine together. A bunch of them, in fact. They were hard = to get all the way in even with a pilot hole and wax. I probably would = very long wood screw next time. Ta, Jim ------=_NextPart_000_0083_01BF5370.C66C6BA0-- from bob@downandacross.com Fri Dec 31 10:26:53 1999 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) I neglected to mention that I varnished before putting guides on. With a clear tube (Thanks Tony) I may try it with guides on and just pause after each. Great idea.BobBob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY from martinjensen@home.com Fri Dec 31 10:38:12 1999 (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP ;Fri, 31 Dec 1999 08:38:09 -0800 Yes, after each guide comes out, pause for about a minute and a half on theStripping guide and one minute on the smaller guides. I quit heating thevarnish past 80 degrees F (25C) because of problems with the previouscoat. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- I neglected to mention that I varnished before putting guides on. With aclear tube (Thanks Tony) I may try it with guides on and just pause aftereach. Great idea.BobBob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Dec 31 10:43:25 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 31 Dec 1999 10:34:36 -0600 ----- Original Message ----- My new work bench was purchased at a Home Depot for $150. It is alittleover 60" long. including the end vise. It is made by HalsteadInternational,289 Greenwich Ave., Greenwich, Conn. 06830 The wood seems to be red oak, and it's nicely done, with 2 drawers onglides, and another vise at the opposite end. The top has a nice recessedarea, for tools, and dog holes at all the appropriate places. I don't think you could buy the materials, and build one any cheaper. I'dlike to have one that was longer, but just don't have the space. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "Jim & Sallyann Freeman" Cc: "Rodmakers" Sent: Thursday, December 30, 1999 7:40 AMSubject: Re: Perfect Workbench Lowell, Height is very important. Make sure it fits you. Find a comfortableplaningheight where your elbow and forearm seem to fit best. I experimentedhere.If I were going to err, I would go short. You can alway use a 2x6 underyourforms to increase height later. Then make the thing as stout as you can.Mine is 8' long although I would go longer, if I were to do it again.Thetop frame is made from 2" x 6" with 1" plywood top. Lots of bracingthere.Width is only 2' because of a small space. I don't think you want to gettoowide anyway. Junks up easily. I have a big, square table behind myplanningbench for other odds and ends - I have to wade through the junk to findanything. I used 4" x 4" legs and put a shelf nearer to the bottom onwhichsits my machinist's chest, files, planes etc. On the back side of mybenchis mounted by binder and binder guides. I work from both sides - eachsidehaving it's own function. I also have a vice mounted on one end towardthe> > binder side. Mine cost about $100 in raw materials and would havebeenmore,if I could have found better materials locally. If I had the room, I would have a seperate bench built for each functionplus an extra for good measure. Try to get the assembly as level as possible and get the top flat aspossible. This will show up when you start trying to straighten gluedsections. Achieving this will require that you get as good of materialsasyou can find. Straight boards, etc. I used softwoods because I'm cheap,andI drove them nuts at the lumberyard going through their stock. Usewhatyoucan afford. I'm now looking into bench dogs. You might want to incorporate some ofthoseinto your thinking a la Garrision. Good luck,Jim----- Original Message -----From: Lowell K. Davis Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 11:32 PMSubject: Perfect Workbench I'm building a new workbench. My question is, what would youinclude in designing the perfect workbench? Height, style etc. from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Fri Dec 31 11:47:18 1999 mail02.missouri.edu> Once again a very helpful thread, you guys are excellent. One question --I'm not clear on what you mean by "propping the solvent upwards from thebottom." Do you mean keeping the level of solvent just high enough tocoverthe valve outlet, but not high enough to force solvent up into the tubewhere it might touch the blank? Also, since I too have little headroom (some would say that's true of mypersonality but I'm referring here to my workshop) I wonder if I couldn'tjust hang the blank in the tube, pour in the varnish, let it sit for an houror two to warm, and then drain it. Any thoughts on doing it this way? Barry -----Original Message----- HI Ed:Here's the setup I currently have been trying. I notched out a corner of mybench (near a leg) and I clamped a 5' section of tube there, with enoughclearance for a container on the bottom to catch the varnish or mineralspirits when they run through. The valve is a nice copper one with a largelever. It has a ball style insert inside that allows the varnish to passthrough. The ribbon heater is 12" in length and is wrapped evenly aroundthetube and plugs in to warm the tube up when there is varnish in it. Fill withvarnish. It takes about a quart, I guess. I thin it very little, but thisdoes seem to help. I guess I used about 10:1 with good results. After about2 hrs or more, I have to drain the varnish out so I can tilt the tube andput the section in. (you may not have to do this if you have headroom.) Iuse a small Pony clamp and a string. The clamp fits right into the tubesmouth. BE careful for the displacement of the varnish when you completelylower the blank in. I wrap the top end of the outer tube with a towel. I putthe warm varnish back in and let it sit a bit. Then I open the valve for avery slow drain, and I watch it because the rate will change. I don't thinkyou need to be exact as long as it is very very slow and consistent. I alsohang the butt sections downwards and that seems to keep sags away. Icoverthe top end with a clean dust free rag. When done all dripping out,Takesabout 1/2 an hour @60" at 2" per minute) I submerge the valve in mineralspirits by replacing the varnish can and propping the solvent upwards fromthe bottom. (MAKE SURE YOU DO NOT FILL THE TUBE WITH MINERALSPIRITS!) ThenI leave the whole thing to dry without touching it for 12-24 hours. I leavethe heater on for most of this time. When dry, I hang in my closet andfollow the preparation steps for the next coat.Please note, that I extracted all these ideas from Darrly H and the heater from Art Port's private e-mails to me. All Sir D's post are in the archivesunder "drip tube." I think they begin at about 1995.Good luck. If it is easy enough for me, anyone can figure a way out tovarnish.Bob At 10:32 AM 12/31/99 -0500, you wrote: Bob:Jeez, this sounds like something that maybe even I could make and learnhowto use!You've given a lot of detail, but I'll need more. Has this assembly and itsuse been described anywhere more fully? If so, where?Thanks.Ed-----Original Message----- Hi Jerry,As far as the drip tube setup goes, I would try it. I spent about an hourgathering the materials and setting it up. It works great, and I amvirtually dust free in the midst of a basement where I sand in my splices coupler from the 1" PVC to the 3/4 valve ($.99) and some PVCglue/bondingstuff ($2). I then bought a pipe ribbon heater ($20) and I was ready to go.This setup works great. I let the heater run for a couple hours to warmthevarnish. I set the drip for as slow as I can manage, and it does not sag. Ileave it in the tube for a day until it dries. Self contained and easy touse with a room that has lttle overhead. I fill a can with thinner and propit up under the setup to keep the drain clean while this dries. (By theway, the whole setup is Darryl's idea. The heater is Art's idea. Thanksguys!)WIpe on your Tung OIl to finish, and then dip later. The best of bothworlds.Best regards, Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY from iananders@hotmail.com Fri Dec 31 12:01:46 1999 Fri, 31 Dec 1999 10:01:12 PST I've got the Howell book so that one is covered. I'll look through the archives as well. As for ferrules, maybe I can modify some old artillery shells. Happy new year,Ian Hi Ian:Sorry I took so long. There are two Spey tapers I know of. I have one fromthe archives 12/4/97 that was a 13 1/2 E. Gale and Sons. The other is aPayne from Jack Howell's book. I saw a Payne spey rod up close the otherday. It belonged to Seymour Knox, the late Buffalo Sabres owner. He was apretty avid fisherman, as his wife still is. The rod was huge, but justbreathtakingly beautiful. It is hard to argue with those that mumble anddrool about how good Payne's cosmetics were.If you cannot find either of these two (I would really consider the book amust have), I will post for you.Who out there is going to make the ferrules for Ian?Best regards and Happy 2000,Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from bob@downandacross.com Fri Dec 31 12:32:41 1999 (envelope- from bob@downandacross.com) boundary="=====================_16045508==_.ALT" --=====================_16045508==_.ALT I fill a coffee can with mineral spirits and come up from under the valve to cover the opening. Yes, you got it. (This is in Darryl's old posts)I also wonder about leaving the blank in the tube while the varnishwarmed. Would that work? I was afraid it might get too thick. Guys?Bob At 11:47 AM 12/31/99 -0600, you wrote: Once again a very helpful thread, you guys are excellent. One question --I'm not clear on what you mean by "propping the solvent upwards from thebottom." Do you mean keeping the level of solvent just high enough tocoverthe valve outlet, but not high enough to force solvent up into the tubewhere it might touch the blank? Also, since I too have little headroom (some would say that's true of mypersonality but I'm referring here to my workshop) I wonder if I couldn'tjust hang the blank in the tube, pour in the varnish, let it sit for an houror two to warm, and then drain it. Any thoughts on doing it this way? Barry -----Original Message----- HI Ed:Here's the setup I currently have been trying. I notched out a corner of mybench (near a leg) and I clamped a 5' section of tube there, with enoughclearance for a container on the bottom to catch the varnish or mineralspirits when they run through. The valve is a nice copper one with a largelever. It has a ball style insert inside that allows the varnish to passthrough. The ribbon heater is 12" in length and is wrapped evenly aroundthetube and plugs in to warm the tube up when there is varnish in it. Fill withvarnish. It takes about a quart, I guess. I thin it very little, but thisdoes seem to help. I guess I used about 10:1 with good results. After about2 hrs or more, I have to drain the varnish out so I can tilt the tube andput the section in. (you may not have to do this if you have headroom.) Iuse a small Pony clamp and a string. The clamp fits right into the tubesmouth. BE careful for the displacement of the varnish when you completelylower the blank in. I wrap the top end of the outer tube with a towel. I putthe warm varnish back in and let it sit a bit. Then I open the valve for avery slow drain, and I watch it because the rate will change. I don't thinkyou need to be exact as long as it is very very slow and consistent. I alsohang the butt sections downwards and that seems to keep sags away. Icoverthe top end with a clean dust free rag. When done all dripping out,Takesabout 1/2 an hour @60" at 2" per minute) I submerge the valve in mineralspirits by replacing the varnish can and propping the solvent upwards fromthe bottom. (MAKE SURE YOU DO NOT FILL THE TUBE WITH MINERALSPIRITS!) ThenI leave the whole thing to dry without touching it for 12-24 hours. I leavethe heater on for most of this time. When dry, I hang in my closet andfollow the preparation steps for the next coat.Please note, that I extracted all these ideas from Darrly H and the heater from Art Port's private e-mails to me. All Sir D's post are in the archivesunder "drip tube." I think they begin at about 1995.Good luck. If it is easy enough for me, anyone can figure a way out tovarnish.Bob At 10:32 AM 12/31/99 -0500, you wrote: Bob:Jeez, this sounds like something that maybe even I could make and learnhowto use!You've given a lot of detail, but I'll need more. Has this assembly and itsuse been described anywhere more fully? If so, where?Thanks.Ed-----Original Message----- Hi Jerry,As far as the drip tube setup goes, I would try it. I spent about an hourgathering the materials and setting it up. It works great, and I amvirtually dust free in the midst of a basement where I sand in my splices coupler from the 1" PVC to the 3/4 valve ($.99) and some PVCglue/bondingstuff ($2). I then bought a pipe ribbon heater ($20) and I was ready to go.This setup works great. I let the heater run for a couple hours to warmthevarnish. I set the drip for as slow as I can manage, and it does not sag. Ileave it in the tube for a day until it dries. Self contained and easy touse with a room that has lttle overhead. I fill a can with thinner and propit up under the setup to keep the drain clean while this dries. (By theway, the whole setup is Darryl's idea. The heater is Art's idea. Thanksguys!)WIpe on your Tung OIl to finish, and then dip later. The best of bothworlds.Best regards, Bob Mauluccidownandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716.836.8297 Vox716.867.0523 Cell716.836.2229 Faxbob@downandacross.com-- =====================_16045508==_.ALT I fill a coffee can with mineral spirits and come up fromunder the valve to cover the opening. Yes, you got it. (This is inDarryl's old posts) I also wonder about leaving the blank in the tube while the varnishwarmed. Would that work? I was afraid it might get too thick.Guys?Bob At 11:47 AM 12/31/99 -0600, you wrote: Once again a very helpful thread, you guys are excellent. Onequestion --I'm not clear on what you mean by "propping the solventupwards from thebottom." Do you mean keeping the level of solvent just highenough to coverthe valve outlet, but not high enough to force solvent up into thetubewhere it might touch the blank? Also, since I too have little headroom (some would say that's trueof mypersonality but I'm referring here to my workshop) I wonder if Icouldn'tjust hang the blank in the tube, pour in the varnish, let it sit foran houror two to warm, and then drain it. Any thoughts on doing it thisway? Barry -----Original Message-----From: bob maulucci ]Sent: Friday, December 31, 1999 9:55 AM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Drip Tube HI Ed:Here's the setup I currently have been trying. I notched out acorner of mybench (near a leg) and I clamped a 5' section of tube there, withenoughclearance for a container on the bottom to catch the varnish ormineralspirits when they run through. The valve is a nice copper one with alargelever. It has a ball style insert inside that allows the varnish topassthrough. The ribbon heater is 12" in length and is wrappedevenly around thetube and plugs in to warm the tube up when there is varnish in it.Fill withvarnish. It takes about a quart, I guess. I thin it very little, butthisdoes seem to help. I guess I used about 10:1 with good results.After about2 hrs or more, I have to drain the varnish out so I can tilt thetube andput the section in. (you may not have to do this if you haveheadroom.) Iuse a small Pony clamp and a string. The clamp fits right into thetubesmouth. BE careful for the displacement of the varnish when youcompletelylower the blank in. I wrap the top end of the outer tube with atowel. I putthe warm varnish back in and let it sit a bit. Then I open the valve very slow drain, and I watch it because the rate will change. Idon't thinkyou need to be exact as long as it is very very slow and consistent.I alsohang the butt sections downwards and that seems to keep sags away.Icoverthe top end with a clean dust free rag. When done all drippingout,Takesabout 1/2 an hour @60" at 2" per minute) I submerge thevalve in mineralspirits by replacing the varnish can and propping the solventupwards fromthe bottom. (MAKE SURE YOU DO NOT FILL THE TUBE WITH MINERALSPIRITS!) ThenI leave the whole thing to dry without touching it for 12-24 hours.I leavethe heater on for most of this time. When dry, I hang in my closetandfollow the preparation steps for the next coat.Please note, that I extracted all these ideas from Darrly H and theheater from Art Port's private e-mails to me. All Sir D's post are in thearchivesunder "drip tube." I think they begin at about1995.Good luck. If it is easy enough for me, anyone can figure a way outtovarnish.Bob At 10:32 AM 12/31/99 -0500, you wrote: Bob:Jeez, this sounds like something that maybe even I could make andlearn howto use! assembly and its Thanks.Ed-----Original Message----- Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Friday, December 31, 1999 9:52 AMSubject: RE: Wipe on finishes about an hour am my splices valve ($10), a PVC glue/bonding ready to go. to warm the not sag. I and easy to thinner and prop (By the Thanksguys!) bothworlds. Bob Mauluccidownandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716.836.8297 Vox716.867.0523 Cell716.836.2229 Faxbob@downandacross.com --=====================_16045508==_.ALT-- from rp43640@online-club.de Fri Dec 31 12:42:10 1999 (MET) A Happy New to all, I am leaving home now in a few minutes to celebrate with our neighbours. So hopefully everything will still be working when we will return inyear 2000. Christian from bhoy@inmind.com Fri Dec 31 12:50:44 1999 altos.inmind.com(8.8.8/SCO5) with ESMTP id NAA25079; Fri, 31 Dec 1999 13:50:08 -0500 I've been looking in to making a similar setup. I have a couple of questions on the clear drip/dip tube. 1). I've been looking for a clear plastic tube to use, but the ones I've found for fluorescent fixtures at my local home store (lowe's) seem to be too flimsy and liable to cracking. Somebody posted a while back that msc had appropriate tubing, but I can't find it in the catalog. They have plenty of flexible clear tubing, but nothing rigid. Do you have a manufacturer or product number that I could take to an electrical supplyhouse? 2.) How did you rig your plywood plug? I can't see myself trying to cut a circle with a jigsaw, and I bet none of my circle cutting rigs would have the appropriate size. Do you butt a piece of plywood against the end and glue/ caulk it. 3. Is it necessary to wind the heating strips in a spiral. I expect that would interfere with visibility, which is the whole point. Is it possible to run a strip or two straight up the back and sides? Thanks in advance, bill hoy(Happy millennium) At 10:07 AM 12/31/99 -0600, Tony Spezio wrote:I also use the drip tube and find it works great. Got a 8' clear plasticFlorescent guard tube from an electric supply house for less than 5.00, this madetwo 4' tubes. Mounted the tube vertical in a plywood frame. Made aplywood plug forthe bottom of the tube and installed a lever type 1/4" petcock drainvalve.Attached a 4" handle on the drain valve lever, this makes it easier to adjust theflow or shut it off at the wraps. I can watch the varnish drain in the tube. Thetube is filled with varnish from the container and drain back into thesamecontainer. In being able to see what the varnish is doing, I can stop at each wrapand guide to let the varnish drain from around the wraps. I can see the flow ofvarnish on the tube walls and adjust the drain so that the flow on the walls keepup with the draining varnish. Have done five rods so far and no runs. The tube isstill clear. Total cost 7.00. I do find it takes about an hour to do a rod withguides installed. To keep the rod from touching the walls of the tube, three evenlyspaced round head quilt pins are stuck into the masking tape wrapped attheferrules.Would be glad to send a scan to anyone interested after my son gets back with thezip drive.The clear tube is not my idea, someone mentioned it on this list.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com bob maulucci wrote: Hi Jerry,As far as the drip tube setup goes, I would try it. I spent about an hourgathering the materials and setting it up. It works great, and I amvirtually dust free in the midst of a basement where I sand in mysplices coupler from the 1" PVC to the 3/4 valve ($.99) and some PVCglue/bondingstuff ($2). I then bought a pipe ribbon heater ($20) and I was ready togo.This setup works great. I let the heater run for a couple hours to warmthevarnish. I set the drip for as slow as I can manage, and it does not sag.Ileave it in the tube for a day until it dries. Self contained and easy touse with a room that has lttle overhead. I fill a can with thinner andpropit up under the setup to keep the drain clean while this dries. (By theway, the whole setup is Darryl's idea. The heater is Art's idea. Thanks guys!)WIpe on your Tung OIl to finish, and then dip later. The best of both worlds.Best regards, At 09:24 AM 12/31/99 -0500, you wrote:* tung oil by itself is not very effective although when blended with otherresins, effectiveness increases. I think you have answered your own question. However, I use tung oilbecause- -well, just because! The initial reason I began using tung oil wasthat after gluing up the strip and sanding off the glue, I was in a hurryto see what the rod looked like. A quick wipe with tung oil and thebamboosimply ''jumps"out at me--going from a dull, listless appearing stickto abeautiful piece of wood--in seconds. It has since merely become aritual.Since I immediately follow this up with the oil/urethane finish, and itiscompatible, I will likely continue my ritual. After all, my rod building isa pleasure to me, pure enjoyment, and if this adds to my enjoyment, sobeit. The rod does seem a shade darker after using tung oil in comparisontousing ONLY oil/urethane. The latter is likely my own imaginationworkingovertime--but again, it has become part of my rod building "ritual." Notvery scientific, I know, but these are my reasons for using tung oil. OnceI set up a dipping/draining technique using spar varnish, I likely willchange and develop a new ritual.Happy New Year to you all.J. Snider. At 11:31 AM 12/30/1999 -0500, Richard Nantel wrote:Since tung oil has been proven to actually attract moisture ratherthanrepel it, why would it be chosen as a finish for a fly rod? Followingisinformation posted on the list some time ago by Don Andersonshowing therelative moiture-repellent properties of different compounds: (Don, I hopeyou don't mind my re-posting this) In the May/June 1987 issue of Fine Woodworking there was anarticleentitled "Protecting Wood from Humidity". While I would have liked to postthe article intact, I couldn't get permission of the authors although Itried for a number of months.So, I will quote from the article a number of things that may shed light onthe recent discussion. * The Forest Products Laboratory completed a study that examinedhow wellfinishes resisted water vapor.* Of the 91 finishes tested, no coating entirely prevents water fromabsorbing.* Some popular finishes linseed oil, tung oil and lacquer presented littlebarrier to water vapor.* Sample of smooth pine were used.* Test consisted of exposing two pieces of pine cut from the same board -both were exposed to 80F and 30% humidity until they could gain nomorewater- weighted - one coated - then exposed to1, 7, and 14 days @ 80F and90% humidity.* dipped coats fared better than brushed coats due to depth of coat*degree of moisture vapor protection depends on: how thick the film,whether the coating contains pigments, kind of resin, how long the wood wasexposed* authors found that the longer the finished pieces were exposed tohighhumidity, the poorer their water retardance, eventually water vapor findsits way in.* latex or water based varnishes are not very effective* tung oil by itself is not very effective although when blended with otherresins, effectiveness increases* First coat may seal the surface, second coat provides a defect freesurface - each coat after that does decrease moisture uptake but inreducing amounts The article included a table of finishes and their effectiveness. The tableshows the moisture-excluding effectiveness [ MEE ] of a variety offinishes. Rating are given for 1, 2 and 3 coats after 14 days of exposure @80F and 90% humidity. Higher number represent greater effectivness. Material 1 coat 2coats 3 coats Melted paraffin wax 95 N/A N/A 2 part epoxy sheathing 54 88 91 Alum. flake pigmented polyurethaneglossvarnish 41 7784 Two part polyurethaneglossvarnish 0 4666 Epoxy gloss varnish 3 46 66 Polyurethane glossvarnish 11 36 44 Polyurethane satinvarnish 8 29 43 Soya alkyd phenolic/tung oilgloss sparvarnish 0 1530 Acrylic gloss latexvarnish -1 6 10 TungOil -1 -12 Brazilian carnauba pastewax 0 0 1 LinseedOil -5 -40 Spray furniture polish lemonoil/silicone 0 00 So there it is - paraffin wax and the herd - so for those folks who believethat tung oil seals the cane - sorry - just t'aint so.The best of the bunch for the cane builder seems to be Polyurethanepolyvarnish. Don -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu UtzerathSent: Thursday, December 30, 1999 12:17 AM Subject: Wipe on finishes I've been using a wipe-on finish made locally and have beenpretty happywith it. I'm wondering if there is a down-side to it. It's called Arm-R-Seal (no connection, no spam, etc.) andit's described asa modified tung, urethane finish. Better woodworking supplyplaces carryit. Contrary to what the Japan Woodworker site says, it isavailable ingloss. The main reason I like it is because you can touch upchips andscratches easily, it is OK to use steel wool between coatsand it's not toohard to polish with the usual abrasives after a week's cure.It has no UVlight additives, but I don't think that's too important. Anycomments? Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY from anglport@con2.com Fri Dec 31 13:04:41 1999 (SMTPD32-5.05) id AE042060108; Fri, 31 Dec 1999 14:03:32 -0500 Guys,While I don't drip, I dip, I think the removal problem is the same nomatter how long you let the rod sit in the liquid. If you remove it at aninhospitable rate, you're going to get runs, tears and weeps. I WAS toldone time by no less a resource than Mr Carmichael, that you can get almostas good a finish as any other way by just thrusting the thing into thevarnish and whipping it back out at speed . I did several that way andfound little difference between those and prior and subsequent ones. I justlike gadgets and will build any tool that looks like it MIGHT offer anadvantage. If anyone's interested in MY version of Rube Goldberg, I'll sendyou some pictures off-list. I warn you, though, that while it's collapsibleto facillitate moving and storage, it needs the better part of a two storystaircase to set up and use.Art Art At 01:28 PM 12/31/1999 -0500, bob maulucci wrote:I fill a coffee can with mineral spirits and come up from under the valveto cover the opening. Yes, you got it. (This is in Darryl's old posts) Ialso wonder about leaving the blank in the tube while the varnishwarmed.Would that work? I was afraid it might get too thick. Guys? Bob At 11:47 AM 12/31/99 -0600, you wrote: Once again a very helpfulthread,you guys are excellent. One question -- "propping the solvent upwardsfromthe " Do you mean keeping the level of solvent just high enough to coverthe valve outlet, but not high enough to force solvent up into the tubewhere it might touch the blank? Also, since I too have little headroom(some would say that's true of my personality but I'm referring here tomyworkshop) I wonder if I couldn't just hang the blank in the tube, pour inthe varnish, let it sit for an hour or two to warm, and then drain it. Anythoughts on doing it this way? Barry -----Original Message----- From: bob maulucci Ed Riddle Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Drip Tube HI Ed: Here's the setup I currently have been trying. I notched out acorner of my bench (near a leg) and I clamped a 5' section of tube there,with enough clearance for a container on the bottom to catch the varnishormineral spirits when they run through. The valve is a nice copper onewitha large lever. It has a ball style insert inside that allows the varnish topass " in length and is wrapped evenly around the tube and plugs in towarmthe tube up when there is varnish in it. Fill with varnish. It takes abouta quart, I guess. I thin it very little, but this does seem to help. Iguess I used about 10:1 with good results. After about 2 hrs or more, Ihave to drain the varnish out so I can tilt the tube and put the sectionin. (you may not have to do this if you have headroom.) I use a small Ponyclamp and a string. The clamp fits right into the tubes mouth. BE careful in.I wrap the top end of the outer tube with a towel. I put the warm varnishback in and let it sit a bit. Then I open the valve for a very slow drain,and I watch it because the rate will change. I don't think you need to beexact as long as it is very very slow and consistent. I also hang the buttsections downwards and that seems to keep sags away. I cover the topendwith a clean dust free rag. When done all dripping out,Takes "" perminute)I submerge the valve in mineral spirits by replacing the varnish can andpropping the solvent upwards from the bottom. (MAKE SURE YOU DO NOTFILLTHE TUBE WITH MINERAL SPIRITS!) Then I leave the whole thing to drywithouttouching it for 12-24 hours. I leave the heater on for most of this time.When dry, I hang in my closet and follow the preparation steps for thenextcoat. Please note, that I extracted all these ideas from Darrly H and theheater from Art Port's private e-mails to me. All Sir D's post are in thearchives "" I think they begin at about 1995. Good luck. If it is easyenough for me, anyone can figure a way out to varnish. Bob At 10:32 AM 12/31/99 -0500, you wrote: Bob: Jeez, this sounds like something that maybe even I could make andlearn how to use! Has this assembly and its If so, where? Thanks. Ed-----Original Message----- Date: Friday, December 31, 1999 9:52AMSubject: RE: Wipe on finishes Hi Jerry, >As far as the drip tube setup goes, I would try it. I spentabout an hour >gathering the materials and setting it up. It works great,and I am >virtually dust free in the midst of a basement where I sand inmysplices >" PVC (10 ft for $3.98), a valve ($10), a >" PVC to the 3/4 valve($.99) and some PVC glue/bonding >stuff ($2). I then bought a pipe ribbonheater ($20) and I was ready to go. >This setup works great. I let theheater run for a couple hours to warm the >varnish. I set the drip for asslow as I can manage, and it does not sag. I >leave it in the tube for aday until it dries. Self contained and easy to >use with a room that haslttle overhead. I fill a can with thinner and prop >it up under the setupto keep the drain clean while this dries. (By the >way, the whole setup isDarryl's idea. The heater is Art's idea. Thanks guys!) >WIpe on your TungOIl to finish, and then dip later. The best of both worlds. >Best regards, Bob Mauluccidownandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716.836.8297 Vox716.867.0523 Cell716.836.2229 Faxbob@downandacross.com *Some people can tell what time it is by looking at the sun, but I never have been able to make out the numbers.* from hartzell@easystreet.com Fri Dec 31 13:06:29 1999 LAA25802; FE70146AE939F0409696EAAD" --------------FE70146AE939F0409696EAAD Ian: Jack Howell"s bookThe Lovely Reed has very good instructions formakingsteel planing forms. Wooden form plans can be found in Ron Barch's TheBestof the Planing Form. Ed Hartzell Ian McAllister wrote: Hi All: I'm new to the group and apologize if this ground has been covered adinfinitum. I'm a professional graphite rod builder recently bitten by thebamboo bug. I'd like to know if anyone knows where I can find plans formaking adjustable planing forms? I'm at the stage of acquiring tools andother materials to get started with bamboo. The only problem after thatisfinding some space to work in. I'd also appreciate any links to tapers for spey rods. I thought I'd jumpright into the fire to begin with! Cheers,IanMcAllister RodworksSeattle, WA______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------FE70146AE939F0409696EAAD instructions Ian McAllister wrote:Hi All: I'm new to the group and apologize if this ground has been covered adinfinitum. I'm a professional graphite rod builder recently bitten bamboo bug. I'd like to know if anyone knows where I can find plansformaking adjustable planing forms? I'm at the stage of acquiring toolsandother materials to get started with bamboo. The only problem afterthat isfinding some space to work in. I'd also appreciate any links to tapers for spey rods. I thought I'djumpright into the fire to begin with! Cheers,IanMcAllister RodworksSeattle, WA______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------FE70146AE939F0409696EAAD-- from hartzell@easystreet.com Fri Dec 31 13:24:16 1999 LAA29890; David: The English often used a thread Pattern called Whitworth. I do notknowif your thread is this style, but it is quite likely. I once owned an MGwhichhad lots of Whitworth threads and got taps and dies from an outfit inSantaBarbara. I cannot find a thread in the tables that matches yourdimensions.The closest are 5/16 at .3125 diam. and 18 tpi and 3/8 at .375 diam at16 tpi.The address in Santa Barbara is Moss Motors 5775 Dawson Ave. GoletaCalifornia. I can't find a telephone # or a zip code on my old catalog.Another solution is to cut the thread on a lathe after making a Whitworthtool.The threading tool has to made at 55 degrees instead of 60 to match.The English had some queer ideas. Whitworth threads have not been used time. Ed Hartzell McFall David wrote: I am trying to repair an extension handle for an English Bamboo rod. Inorder to do this I will have to make a stud which is threaded to go intothe rod handle. I do not have any English thread cutting dies andhopefully some one on the list can steer me in the correct direction. Thethread o.d. is 0.352" (approx) and the thread pitch looks like about 18 tpi. Please reply directly to dmcfall@odyssee.net Many thanks and Season Greetings Dave M from flytyr@southshore.com Fri Dec 31 13:28:07 1999 Fri, 31 Dec 1999 13:27:28 -0600 Ed Riddle ,"rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Bary,I just made a frame with a shelf for the bottom of the tube to sit on andanother shelf with a slot in it at about 1/3 way down from the top. Thelowershelf has a hole in the center just big enough for the drain valve to fitthrough it and high enough to place a 1 qt can under it.. It is not big enough tube.This makes it easy for the tube to be removed from the frame for loading.I havea 6 1/2' ceiling.This is the way I do it , it has worked so far. Bring the room temperatureup to80* long enough to stabilize everything. Fill the tube with varnish to themarkI set on the tube. This level allows me to remove the tube from the standandtilt it enough to get the rod started in the tube. The three pins mentionedearlier keep the rod from scraping the sides. Put the tube with the rod init,back in the rack and let it sit till any bubbles are gone. I sit on a stool infront of the tube and control the flow with the drain petcock. When donedraining, remove the tube from the stand, tilt it enough to pull the rodstraight out. The pins keep it centered in the tube. The rod section can beleftin the tube to dry but I don't do this any more. The first time the rod driedokbut the residual varnish clogged up the drain valve. I flush the tube nowwithpaint thinner after removing the rod.Kind of long but there it is.Again I want to thank whoever it was that first brought this up aboutdraintubes.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Kling, Barry W. wrote: Once again a very helpful thread, you guys are excellent. One question --I'm not clear on what you mean by "propping the solvent upwards fromthebottom." Do you mean keeping the level of solvent just high enough tocoverthe valve outlet, but not high enough to force solvent up into the tubewhere it might touch the blank? Also, since I too have little headroom (some would say that's true of mypersonality but I'm referring here to my workshop) I wonder if I couldn'tjust hang the blank in the tube, pour in the varnish, let it sit for an houror two to warm, and then drain it. Any thoughts on doing it this way? Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, December 31, 1999 9:55 AM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Drip Tube HI Ed:Here's the setup I currently have been trying. I notched out a corner ofmybench (near a leg) and I clamped a 5' section of tube there, with enoughclearance for a container on the bottom to catch the varnish or mineralspirits when they run through. The valve is a nice copper one with a largelever. It has a ball style insert inside that allows the varnish to passthrough. The ribbon heater is 12" in length and is wrapped evenly aroundthetube and plugs in to warm the tube up when there is varnish in it. Fillwithvarnish. It takes about a quart, I guess. I thin it very little, but thisdoes seem to help. I guess I used about 10:1 with good results. Afterabout2 hrs or more, I have to drain the varnish out so I can tilt the tube andput the section in. (you may not have to do this if you have headroom.) Iuse a small Pony clamp and a string. The clamp fits right into the tubesmouth. BE careful for the displacement of the varnish when youcompletelylower the blank in. I wrap the top end of the outer tube with a towel. Iputthe warm varnish back in and let it sit a bit. Then I open the valve for avery slow drain, and I watch it because the rate will change. I don't thinkyou need to be exact as long as it is very very slow and consistent. I alsohang the butt sections downwards and that seems to keep sags away. Icoverthe top end with a clean dust free rag. When done all dripping out,Takesabout 1/2 an hour @60" at 2" per minute) I submerge the valve in mineralspirits by replacing the varnish can and propping the solvent upwardsfromthe bottom. (MAKE SURE YOU DO NOT FILL THE TUBE WITH MINERALSPIRITS!) ThenI leave the whole thing to dry without touching it for 12-24 hours. Ileavethe heater on for most of this time. When dry, I hang in my closet andfollow the preparation steps for the next coat.Please note, that I extracted all these ideas from Darrly H and the heater from Art Port's private e-mails to me. All Sir D's post are in thearchivesunder "drip tube." I think they begin at about 1995.Good luck. If it is easy enough for me, anyone can figure a way out tovarnish.Bob At 10:32 AM 12/31/99 -0500, you wrote: Bob:Jeez, this sounds like something that maybe even I could make and learnhowto use!You've given a lot of detail, but I'll need more. Has this assembly and itsuse been described anywhere more fully? If so, where?Thanks.Ed-----Original Message-----From: bob maulucci Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Friday, December 31, 1999 9:52 AMSubject: RE: Wipe on finishes Hi Jerry,As far as the drip tube setup goes, I would try it. I spent about an hourgathering the materials and setting it up. It works great, and I amvirtually dust free in the midst of a basement where I sand in mysplices coupler from the 1" PVC to the 3/4 valve ($.99) and some PVCglue/bondingstuff ($2). I then bought a pipe ribbon heater ($20) and I was ready togo.This setup works great. I let the heater run for a couple hours to warmthevarnish. I set the drip for as slow as I can manage, and it does not sag. Ileave it in the tube for a day until it dries. Self contained and easy touse with a room that has lttle overhead. I fill a can with thinner andpropit up under the setup to keep the drain clean while this dries. (By theway, the whole setup is Darryl's idea. The heater is Art's idea. Thanksguys!)WIpe on your Tung OIl to finish, and then dip later. The best of bothworlds.Best regards, Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Fri Dec 31 14:12:59 1999 0500 I leave the varnish in the tube (permanently) and do what Art does...justextract it slowly. I use a Cabela's drying motor (cheap and very slow) thatturns a dowel that has a string attached to it and attaches to the rod attheother end. It goes thru a hook on the ceiling by my 2nd floor stairs. I justdidmy first rod with guides on and I didn't even have to stop at the guidesduringextraction (the speed is pretty slow though and I pre-brushed the wrapswithvarnish and let it dry). Seems to work like a charm. Next step is to make aplexiglass drying area for the rod once extracted to keep off dust etc.)... -----Original Message----- Once again a very helpful thread, you guys are excellent. One question --I'm not clear on what you mean by "propping the solvent upwards from thebottom." Do you mean keeping the level of solvent just high enough tocoverthe valve outlet, but not high enough to force solvent up into the tubewhere it might touch the blank? Also, since I too have little headroom (some would say that's true of mypersonality but I'm referring here to my workshop) I wonder if I couldn'tjust hang the blank in the tube, pour in the varnish, let it sit for an houror two to warm, and then drain it. Any thoughts on doing it this way? Barry -----Original Message----- HI Ed:Here's the setup I currently have been trying. I notched out a corner of mybench (near a leg) and I clamped a 5' section of tube there, with enoughclearance for a container on the bottom to catch the varnish or mineralspirits when they run through. The valve is a nice copper one with a largelever. It has a ball style insert inside that allows the varnish to passthrough. The ribbon heater is 12" in length and is wrapped evenly aroundthetube and plugs in to warm the tube up when there is varnish in it. Fill withvarnish. It takes about a quart, I guess. I thin it very little, but thisdoes seem to help. I guess I used about 10:1 with good results. After about2 hrs or more, I have to drain the varnish out so I can tilt the tube andput the section in. (you may not have to do this if you have headroom.) Iuse a small Pony clamp and a string. The clamp fits right into the tubesmouth. BE careful for the displacement of the varnish when you completelylower the blank in. I wrap the top end of the outer tube with a towel. I putthe warm varnish back in and let it sit a bit. Then I open the valve for avery slow drain, and I watch it because the rate will change. I don't thinkyou need to be exact as long as it is very very slow and consistent. I alsohang the butt sections downwards and that seems to keep sags away. Icoverthe top end with a clean dust free rag. When done all dripping out,Takesabout 1/2 an hour @60" at 2" per minute) I submerge the valve in mineralspirits by replacing the varnish can and propping the solvent upwards fromthe bottom. (MAKE SURE YOU DO NOT FILL THE TUBE WITH MINERALSPIRITS!) ThenI leave the whole thing to dry without touching it for 12-24 hours. I leavethe heater on for most of this time. When dry, I hang in my closet andfollow the preparation steps for the next coat.Please note, that I extracted all these ideas from Darrly H and the heater from Art Port's private e-mails to me. All Sir D's post are in the archivesunder "drip tube." I think they begin at about 1995.Good luck. If it is easy enough for me, anyone can figure a way out tovarnish.Bob At 10:32 AM 12/31/99 -0500, you wrote: Bob:Jeez, this sounds like something that maybe even I could make and learnhowto use!You've given a lot of detail, but I'll need more. Has this assembly and itsuse been described anywhere more fully? If so, where?Thanks.Ed-----Original Message----- Hi Jerry,As far as the drip tube setup goes, I would try it. I spent about an hourgathering the materials and setting it up. It works great, and I amvirtually dust free in the midst of a basement where I sand in my splices coupler from the 1" PVC to the 3/4 valve ($.99) and some PVCglue/bondingstuff ($2). I then bought a pipe ribbon heater ($20) and I was ready to go.This setup works great. I let the heater run for a couple hours to warmthevarnish. I set the drip for as slow as I can manage, and it does not sag. Ileave it in the tube for a day until it dries. Self contained and easy touse with a room that has lttle overhead. I fill a can with thinner and propit up under the setup to keep the drain clean while this dries. (By theway, the whole setup is Darryl's idea. The heater is Art's idea. Thanksguys!)WIpe on your Tung OIl to finish, and then dip later. The best of bothworlds.Best regards, Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY from edriddle@mindspring.com Fri Dec 31 14:21:43 1999 I have a ground-up restored '52 MG -TD that I've owned since '61.Moss' telephone # is 1-800-667-7872, www.mossmotors.com , nofinancialinterest, but they've got a hell of a lot of what used to be MY money :>)Ed-----Original Message----- David: The English often used a thread Pattern called Whitworth. I do notknowif your thread is this style, but it is quite likely. I once owned an MGwhichhad lots of Whitworth threads and got taps and dies from an outfit inSantaBarbara. I cannot find a thread in the tables that matches yourdimensions.The closest are 5/16 at .3125 diam. and 18 tpi and 3/8 at .375 diam at16tpi.The address in Santa Barbara is Moss Motors 5775 Dawson Ave. GoletaCalifornia. I can't find a telephone # or a zip code on my old catalog.Another solution is to cut the thread on a lathe after making a Whitworthtool.The threading tool has to made at 55 degrees instead of 60 to match.The English had some queer ideas. Whitworth threads have not been usedforsometime. Ed Hartzell McFall David wrote: I am trying to repair an extension handle for an English Bamboo rod. Inorder to do this I will have to make a stud which is threaded to go intothe rod handle. I do not have any English thread cutting dies andhopefully some one on the list can steer me in the correct direction.Thethread o.d. is 0.352" (approx) and the thread pitch looks like about 18tpi. Please reply directly to dmcfall@odyssee.net Many thanks and Season Greetings Dave M from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Dec 31 14:34:58 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 31 Dec 1999 14:26:06 -0600 You can cut a rough circle from most any material, and it doesn't have tobeperfect. Use GOOP, from the DIY store to stick it to the tube, as thisproduct will stick most anything, to anything ! GMA----- Original Message ----- Bary,I just made a frame with a shelf for the bottom of the tube to sit on andanother shelf with a slot in it at about 1/3 way down from the top. Thelowershelf has a hole in the center just big enough for the drain valve to fitthrough it and high enough to place a 1 qt can under it.. It is not bigenough tube.This makes it easy for the tube to be removed from the frame forloading.I havea 6 1/2' ceiling.This is the way I do it , it has worked so far. Bring the room temperatureup to80* long enough to stabilize everything. Fill the tube with varnish to themarkI set on the tube. This level allows me to remove the tube from the standandtilt it enough to get the rod started in the tube. The three pinsmentionedearlier keep the rod from scraping the sides. Put the tube with the rod init,back in the rack and let it sit till any bubbles are gone. I sit on astool infront of the tube and control the flow with the drain petcock. When donedraining, remove the tube from the stand, tilt it enough to pull the rodstraight out. The pins keep it centered in the tube. The rod section canbe leftin the tube to dry but I don't do this any more. The first time the roddried okbut the residual varnish clogged up the drain valve. I flush the tube nowwithpaint thinner after removing the rod.Kind of long but there it is.Again I want to thank whoever it was that first brought this up aboutdraintubes.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Kling, Barry W. wrote: Once again a very helpful thread, you guys are excellent. Onequestion --I'm not clear on what you mean by "propping the solvent upwards fromthebottom." Do you mean keeping the level of solvent just high enough tocoverthe valve outlet, but not high enough to force solvent up into the tubewhere it might touch the blank? Also, since I too have little headroom (some would say that's true ofmypersonality but I'm referring here to my workshop) I wonder if Icouldn'tjust hang the blank in the tube, pour in the varnish, let it sit for anhouror two to warm, and then drain it. Any thoughts on doing it this way? Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, December 31, 1999 9:55 AM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Drip Tube HI Ed:> > Here's the setup I currently have been trying. I notched out acorner ofmybench (near a leg) and I clamped a 5' section of tube there, with enoughclearance for a container on the bottom to catch the varnish or mineralspirits when they run through. The valve is a nice copper one with alargelever. It has a ball style insert inside that allows the varnish to passthrough. The ribbon heater is 12" in length and is wrapped evenlyaroundthetube and plugs in to warm the tube up when there is varnish in it. Fillwithvarnish. It takes about a quart, I guess. I thin it very little, butthisdoes seem to help. I guess I used about 10:1 with good results. Afterabout2 hrs or more, I have to drain the varnish out so I can tilt the tubeandput the section in. (you may not have to do this if you have headroom.)Iuse a small Pony clamp and a string. The clamp fits right into the tubesmouth. BE careful for the displacement of the varnish when youcompletelylower the blank in. I wrap the top end of the outer tube with a towel. Iputthe warm varnish back in and let it sit a bit. Then I open the valve foravery slow drain, and I watch it because the rate will change. I don'tthinkyou need to be exact as long as it is very very slow and consistent. Ialsohang the butt sections downwards and that seems to keep sags away. Icoverthe top end with a clean dust free rag. When done all dripping out,Takesabout 1/2 an hour @60" at 2" per minute) I submerge the valve inmineralspirits by replacing the varnish can and propping the solvent upwardsfromthe bottom. (MAKE SURE YOU DO NOT FILL THE TUBE WITH MINERALSPIRITS!)ThenI leave the whole thing to dry without touching it for 12-24 hours. Ileavethe heater on for most of this time. When dry, I hang in my closet andfollow the preparation steps for the next coat.Please note, that I extracted all these ideas from Darrly H and theheater from Art Port's private e-mails to me. All Sir D's post are in thearchivesunder "drip tube." I think they begin at about 1995.Good luck. If it is easy enough for me, anyone can figure a way out tovarnish.Bob At 10:32 AM 12/31/99 -0500, you wrote: Bob:Jeez, this sounds like something that maybe even I could make andlearnhowto use!You've given a lot of detail, but I'll need more. Has this assembly anditsuse been described anywhere more fully? If so, where?Thanks.Ed-----Original Message-----From: bob maulucci Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Friday, December 31, 1999 9:52 AMSubject: RE: Wipe on finishes Hi Jerry,As far as the drip tube setup goes, I would try it. I spent about anhourgathering the materials and setting it up. It works great, and I amvirtually dust free in the midst of a basement where I sand in mysplices coupler from the 1" PVC to the 3/4 valve ($.99) and some PVCglue/bondingstuff ($2). I then bought a pipe ribbon heater ($20) and I was ready togo.This setup works great. I let the heater run for a couple hours to warmthevarnish. I set the drip for as slow as I can manage, and it does notsag. Ileave it in the tube for a day until it dries. Self contained and easytouse with a room that has lttle overhead. I fill a can with thinner andpropit up under the setup to keep the drain clean while this dries. (By theway, the whole setup is Darryl's idea. The heater is Art's idea. Thanksguys!)WIpe on your Tung OIl to finish, and then dip later. The best of bothworlds.Best regards, Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY from flytyr@southshore.com Fri Dec 31 14:38:13 1999 Fri, 31 Dec 1999 14:37:36 -0600 Doing it the way you do is great if you have the head room. Whenextracting the rodwith guides on, you can blow on the guide to break the film. The excessvarnish justruns down along with the rest of it. In a drain tube you don't have thatluxury. Thefilm will cling to the guide for a while and if the drain is not stopped,there willbe a run just below the wrap when the film in the guide breaks. I have seenthishappen, that is the reason I have to wait after the varnish passes eachwrap andguide. The method that you use would be better if one has the head room. Ifyou weredoing a rod in a drain tube without guides and wraps all you had to do wasopen thedrain valve and let it drain till the tube was empty. We all do what works that is the beauty of this whole thing.Happy New Year,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com wrote: I leave the varnish in the tube (permanently) and do what Art does...justextract it slowly. I use a Cabela's drying motor (cheap and very slow)thatturns a dowel that has a string attached to it and attaches to the rod attheother end. It goes thru a hook on the ceiling by my 2nd floor stairs. I justdidmy first rod with guides on and I didn't even have to stop at the guidesduringextraction (the speed is pretty slow though and I pre-brushed the wrapswithvarnish and let it dry). Seems to work like a charm. Next step is to makeaplexiglass drying area for the rod once extracted to keep off dust etc.)... -----Original Message-----From: Sent: Friday, December 31, 1999 12:47 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Drip Tube Once again a very helpful thread, you guys are excellent. One question --I'm not clear on what you mean by "propping the solvent upwards fromthebottom." Do you mean keeping the level of solvent just high enough tocoverthe valve outlet, but not high enough to force solvent up into the tubewhere it might touch the blank? Also, since I too have little headroom (some would say that's true of mypersonality but I'm referring here to my workshop) I wonder if I couldn'tjust hang the blank in the tube, pour in the varnish, let it sit for an houror two to warm, and then drain it. Any thoughts on doing it this way? Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, December 31, 1999 9:55 AM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Drip Tube HI Ed:Here's the setup I currently have been trying. I notched out a corner ofmybench (near a leg) and I clamped a 5' section of tube there, with enoughclearance for a container on the bottom to catch the varnish or mineralspirits when they run through. The valve is a nice copper one with a largelever. It has a ball style insert inside that allows the varnish to passthrough. The ribbon heater is 12" in length and is wrapped evenly aroundthetube and plugs in to warm the tube up when there is varnish in it. Fillwithvarnish. It takes about a quart, I guess. I thin it very little, but thisdoes seem to help. I guess I used about 10:1 with good results. Afterabout2 hrs or more, I have to drain the varnish out so I can tilt the tube andput the section in. (you may not have to do this if you have headroom.) Iuse a small Pony clamp and a string. The clamp fits right into the tubesmouth. BE careful for the displacement of the varnish when youcompletelylower the blank in. I wrap the top end of the outer tube with a towel. Iputthe warm varnish back in and let it sit a bit. Then I open the valve for avery slow drain, and I watch it because the rate will change. I don't thinkyou need to be exact as long as it is very very slow and consistent. I alsohang the butt sections downwards and that seems to keep sags away. Icoverthe top end with a clean dust free rag. When done all dripping out,Takesabout 1/2 an hour @60" at 2" per minute) I submerge the valve in mineralspirits by replacing the varnish can and propping the solvent upwardsfromthe bottom. (MAKE SURE YOU DO NOT FILL THE TUBE WITH MINERALSPIRITS!) ThenI leave the whole thing to dry without touching it for 12-24 hours. Ileavethe heater on for most of this time. When dry, I hang in my closet andfollow the preparation steps for the next coat.Please note, that I extracted all these ideas from Darrly H and the heater from Art Port's private e-mails to me. All Sir D's post are in thearchivesunder "drip tube." I think they begin at about 1995.Good luck. If it is easy enough for me, anyone can figure a way out tovarnish.Bob At 10:32 AM 12/31/99 -0500, you wrote: Bob:Jeez, this sounds like something that maybe even I could make and learnhowto use!You've given a lot of detail, but I'll need more. Has this assembly and itsuse been described anywhere more fully? If so, where?Thanks.Ed-----Original Message-----From: bob maulucci Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Friday, December 31, 1999 9:52 AMSubject: RE: Wipe on finishes Hi Jerry,As far as the drip tube setup goes, I would try it. I spent about an hourgathering the materials and setting it up. It works great, and I amvirtually dust free in the midst of a basement where I sand in mysplices coupler from the 1" PVC to the 3/4 valve ($.99) and some PVCglue/bondingstuff ($2). I then bought a pipe ribbon heater ($20) and I was ready togo.This setup works great. I let the heater run for a couple hours to warmthevarnish. I set the drip for as slow as I can manage, and it does not sag. Ileave it in the tube for a day until it dries. Self contained and easy touse with a room that has lttle overhead. I fill a can with thinner andpropit up under the setup to keep the drain clean while this dries. (By theway, the whole setup is Darryl's idea. The heater is Art's idea. Thanksguys!)WIpe on your Tung OIl to finish, and then dip later. The best of bothworlds.Best regards, Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.comBuffalo, NY from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Fri Dec 31 14:39:27 1999 0500 Sorry i wasn't paying attention to the fact that your issue is headroom somylast post was probably useless...perhaps I am low on headroom at themoment...but if you have a stairwell for the extra headroom the extractionmethod is really easy! -----Original Message----- I leave the varnish in the tube (permanently) and do what Art does...justextract it slowly. I use a Cabela's drying motor (cheap and very slow) thatturns a dowel that has a string attached to it and attaches to the rod attheother end. It goes thru a hook on the ceiling by my 2nd floor stairs. I justdidmy first rod with guides on and I didn't even have to stop at the guidesduringextraction (the speed is pretty slow though and I pre-brushed the wrapswithvarnish and let it dry). Seems to work like a charm. Next step is to make aplexiglass drying area for the rod once extracted to keep off dust etc.)... from flytyr@southshore.com Fri Dec 31 14:56:30 1999 Fri, 31 Dec 1999 14:55:53 -0600 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Nothing to be sorry about. Yes I agree, in fact I have the whole set up madeforextracting a rod. When I moved and set up my Rod Making room under theporch I didnot have the head space. If there is a way I can make some head space Iwould go tothat method. My better half will not let me cut a hole through the porchfloor so Ican put a pulley up there.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com wrote: Sorry i wasn't paying attention to the fact that your issue is headroomso mylast post was probably useless...perhaps I am low on headroom at themoment...but if you have a stairwell for the extra headroom theextractionmethod is really easy! from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Dec 31 15:31:53 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 31 Dec 1999 15:32:17 -0600 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_012D_01BF53A4.4491A1C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_012D_01BF53A4.4491A1C0 Is there a way to tell if a guide is the real thing, as in agate, as =opposed to the "Agatine", or other guides of this type. I have a number =of guides from old rods made, when such guides were common, but have no=way to tell what is the real thing. GMA ------=_NextPart_000_012D_01BF53A4.4491A1C0 Is there a way to tell if a guide is the = as in agate, as opposed to the "Agatine", or other guides of this type. = number of guides from old rods made, when such guides were common, but= way to tell what is the real thing. GMA ------=_NextPart_000_012D_01BF53A4.4491A1C0-- from flytyr@southshore.com Fri Dec 31 15:40:11 1999 Fri, 31 Dec 1999 15:39:35 -0600 Bill Hoy wrote: I've been looking in to making a similar setup. I have a couple ofquestions on the clear drip/dip tube. 1). I've been looking for a clear plastic tube to use, but the ones I'vefound for fluorescent fixtures at my local home store (lowe's) seem tobetoo flimsy and liable to cracking. Somebody posted a while back that mschad appropriate tubing, but I can't find it in the catalog. They haveplenty of flexible clear tubing, but nothing rigid. Do you have amanufacturer or product number that I could take to an electrical supplyhouse? I don't have a part # but can find out after the holidays. The tube that I amusingis not rigid. It can be flexed. I have no problem with it. It sits out in a coldroom when not in use. No cracks. I expect to get many rods done with thefirsthalf. They also come in 4' lengths. It is about a year old now. 2.) How did you rig your plywood plug? I can't see myself trying to cut acircle with a jigsaw, and I bet none of my circle cutting rigs would havethe appropriate size. Do you butt a piece of plywood against the end andglue/ caulk it. The plug was cut with a hole saw in my drill press. I think it is a 1 1/8"plug. Itfits very tight. If you make a tube and cant make a plug, let me know Icould makeone up for you. I just tapped the plug for 1/4" pipe. The plug fits tight soall Idid was put a little JL sealer around it and pushed it in the end of the tube.Ithas not leaked a drop. 3. Is it necessary to wind the heating strips in a spiral. I expect thatwould interfere with visibility, which is the whole point. Is it possibleto run a strip or two straight up the back and sides? I would not think of using heat strips on a plastic tube, it will melt it. I dofine with leaving everything in an 80* room overnight. That wayeverything is thesame temperature. Thanks in advance, bill hoy(Happy millennium) from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Dec 31 16:16:10 1999 In a message dated 12/31/99 8:23:21 PM, edriddle@mindspring.comwrites: ) >> Well, what did you expect Ed? MG stands for Money Grabber :>) BTW, is it possible those threads could be a metric size? from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Dec 31 16:26:33 1999 "nobler@satx.rr.com" boundary="_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862608=_=_=_" --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862608=_=_=_ Without consulting a gemologist - the color or should I say the cloudyor mottledcolor of Agate versus the clear uniform color Agatine is usually the giveaway. Agatine is syntheticand is clearand uniform - Agate is a naturalstone and usually has "Character" to it. Chris --Original Message Text--- Is there a way to tell if a guide is the real thing, as in agate, as opposedto the "Agatine", or other guides of this type. I have a number of guides from oldrods made, when such guides were common, but have no way to tell what is the real thing. GMA --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862608=_=_=_ Without consulting a gemologist - the color or should I say the cloudyor mottledcolor of Agate versus the clear uniform color Agatine is usually the giveaway. Agatine is syntheticand is clearand uniform - Agate is a naturalstone and usually has "Character" to it. Chris --Original Message Text---From: noblerDate: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 15:32:37 - 0600 Is there a way to tell if a guide is thereal thing, asin agate, as opposed to the "Agatine", or other guides of this type. I have anumber ofguides from old rods made, when such guides were common, but have noway to tell what isthe real thing. GMA --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862608=_=_=_-- from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Dec 31 16:44:33 1999 There is a distinct possibility of it being a Chinese Bicycle Thread (CBT)TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 12/31/99 8:23:21 PM, edriddle@mindspring.comwrites: ) >> Well, what did you expect Ed? MG stands for Money Grabber :>) BTW, is it possible those threads could be a metric size? from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Dec 31 16:50:32 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 31 Dec 1999 16:49:31 -0600 It's very close to a 9mm - 1.25 thread. GMA----- Original Message ----- There is a distinct possibility of it being a Chinese Bicycle Thread (CBT)TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 12/31/99 8:23:21 PM, edriddle@mindspring.comwrites: ) >> Well, what did you expect Ed? MG stands for Money Grabber :>) BTW, is it possible those threads could be a metric size? from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Dec 31 17:00:52 1999 No such thing as close when it comes to threads, you have to be precise nobler wrote: It's very close to a 9mm - 1.25 thread. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "TERENCE ACKLAND" Cc: Sent: Friday, December 31, 1999 4:48 PMSubject: Re: English Bamboo Rod - extension handle repairs There is a distinct possibility of it being a Chinese Bicycle Thread(CBT)TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 12/31/99 8:23:21 PM, edriddle@mindspring.comwrites: ) >> Well, what did you expect Ed? MG stands for Money Grabber :>) BTW, is it possible those threads could be a metric size? from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Dec 31 17:18:10 1999 SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);Fri, 31 Dec 1999 17:09:19 -0600 It is if you get the tap and die, and just chase the threads ! These areavailable for less than $15. GMA----- Original Message ----- No such thing as close when it comes to threads, you have to be precise nobler wrote: It's very close to a 9mm - 1.25 thread. GMA----- Original Message -----From: "TERENCE ACKLAND" Cc: Sent: Friday, December 31, 1999 4:48 PMSubject: Re: English Bamboo Rod - extension handle repairs There is a distinct possibility of it being a Chinese Bicycle Thread(CBT)TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 12/31/99 8:23:21 PM, edriddle@mindspring.comwrites: ) >> Well, what did you expect Ed? MG stands for Money Grabber :>) BTW, is it possible those threads could be a metric size? from brewer@teleport.com Fri Dec 31 18:11:04 1999 "hamachi"via SMTP by relay1.teleport.com, id smtpdAAA0B9lrV; Fri Dec 31 16:10:451999 I was just looking at the Lie-Nielsen site and it appears they have a newstandard angle block plane modified for rod builders, unless I've beenmissing something. As usual, no financial interest, etc. [but I should buysome stock]. http://www.lie-nielsen.com/ambp.tmpl Randy Brewerbrewer@teleport.com from cathcreek@hotmail.com Fri Dec 31 18:22:52 1999 Fri, 31 Dec 1999 16:22:19 PST Sorry for not being bamboo, but I have a Triumph GT6 that will be sharing the workshop (garage) with my rod making stuff. I guess folks that like cane might be the same type that go for English cars. Robert Clarkecathcreek@hotmail.com From: "Ed Riddle" Subject: Re: English Bamboo Rod - extension handle repairsDate: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 15:18:36 -0500 I have a ground-up restored '52 MG -TD that I've owned since '61.Moss' telephone # is 1-800-667-7872, www.mossmotors.com , nofinancialinterest, but they've got a hell of a lot of what used to be MY money :>)Ed-----Original Message-----From: Ed Hartzell Cc: RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Friday, December 31, 1999 2:30 PMSubject: Re: English Bamboo Rod - extension handle repairs David: The English often used a thread Pattern called Whitworth. I do notknowif your thread is this style, but it is quite likely. I once owned an MGwhichhad lots of Whitworth threads and got taps and dies from an outfit in SantaBarbara. I cannot find a thread in the tables that matches yourdimensions.The closest are 5/16 at .3125 diam. and 18 tpi and 3/8 at .375 diam at 16tpi.The address in Santa Barbara is Moss Motors 5775 Dawson Ave. GoletaCalifornia. I can't find a telephone # or a zip code on my old catalog.Another solution is to cut the thread on a lathe after making aWhitworthtool.The threading tool has to made at 55 degrees instead of 60 to match.The English had some queer ideas. Whitworth threads have not beenused forsometime. Ed Hartzell McFall David wrote: I am trying to repair an extension handle for an English Bamboo rod. Inorder to do this I will have to make a stud which is threaded to go intothe rod handle. I do not have any English thread cutting dies andhopefully some one on the list can steer me in the correct direction.Thethread o.d. is 0.352" (approx) and the thread pitch looks like about 18tpi. Please reply directly to dmcfall@odyssee.net Many thanks and Season Greetings Dave M ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from cattanac@wmis.net Fri Dec 31 19:03:48 1999 mail4.wmis.net(8.8.8/SCO5) with SMTP id UAA05262 for; Fri, 31 Dec 1999 Just so that every one will know the Official dates for GrayRock '00 areJune 23 & 23. As usual you are more than welcome to come early asseveraldo - the Unofficial start date is June 17 - But seeing that that is Father'sDay weekend - an accompaning note from the next of kin is required.Each year we seem to try for more organization at the gathering - itseems to have a life and breath of it own. Again this years we will offerpresentation time to anyone that asks - This past year REC - joined thoseoffering presentations with an overview of their product line. There isalways an effort to bring bamboo and components to the attendees at thebestpricing possible.And then there is the fishing - the last couple of years we have donewell with the Hex hatch - I shared a blanket hatch with my daughter lastyears and It was truely magical just to watch.And in the end there is TTBBQ VI - The Rodmakers is one of a couplegroups that gather at this time each year and to celebrate the end - thereis The TroutBum BBQ a fund raiser that has proven to be very suscessfuloverthe years with the Sporting Flies Bribery Contest and Again this year TheMaker's Rod '00If anyone has further questions - I would ask that you contact me offthe list - I would be glad to help those wishing to attend as much as I can PS - It just dawned on me - the Elvis Clock in the Clubhouse was neverchecked for Y2K compliance - Bummer from edriddle@mindspring.com Fri Dec 31 19:32:42 1999 David et. al. contributors to this thread: I will endeavor to check my paper files tomorrow between games in hopesofbeing helpful rather than cute: (Still, M.G.'s get more expensive with age) The Brits, in addition to providing affordable export (to USA) sporty cars;a.k.a., "cheap", had a myriad of threaded fittings during that era.British Standard Whitworth (BSW), British Standard Fine (BSF), BritishStandard Pipe Tapered (BSPT) and British Association Form (BA).If, for whatever reason I don't get back to you or can't help, trycontacting: Metric & Multistandard Components Corp., 198 Saw Mill RiverRoad , Elmsford, N. Y. 10523.A lotta good stuff on "Rodmakers" today. Happy New Year!!Ed (in north central North Carolina)-----Original Message----- I am trying to repair an extension handle for an English Bamboo rod. Inorder to do this I will have to make a stud which is threaded to go intothe rod handle. I do not have any English thread cutting dies andhopefully some one on the list can steer me in the correct direction. Thethread o.d. is 0.352" (approx) and the thread pitch looks like about 18tpi. Please reply directly to dmcfall@odyssee.net Many thanks and Season Greetings Dave M from cadams46@juno.com Fri Dec 31 20:32:54 1999 21:32:18 EST All this talk on dip tubes has got me to wondering, right now I finishmy rods with a watered down Formby's Tung Oil and I slowly turn it. Doyou think I'd get a better finish with a dip tube like Garrison's Model? Just curious, thanks in advance.C R Adams from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Dec 31 21:28:54 1999 1999 19:28:48 PST ====="Gooda' morning mister bear"__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.http://messenger.yahoo.com from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Dec 31 23:34:41 1999 be forged)) Sat, 1 Jan 2000 13:35:39 +0800 Looks like it to me. Beauty! Tony At 04:10 PM 12/31/99 -0800, Randy Brewer wrote:I was just looking at the Lie-Nielsen site and it appears they have a newstandard angle block plane modified for rod builders, unless I've beenmissing something. As usual, no financial interest, etc. [but I should buysome stock]. http://www.lie-nielsen.com/ambp.tmpl Randy Brewerbrewer@teleport.com /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything. William Shakespeare, As You Like It /*************************************************************************/